[01:19] <Doranwen> ok, I think I understand my problem better--the computer's got issues with the video card
[01:19] <Doranwen> majorly
[01:19] <Doranwen> it ran fine under XP, but that's been wiped now since they didn't want to use the 'net with it
[01:19] <Doranwen> on installing, it gives me an error:  "Unidentified video mode: 314" and tells me to choose something
[01:19] <Doranwen> all of the options are smaller than the display can actually handle
[01:20] <Doranwen> either 640x480 or 800x600, this laptop can handle 1024x768 at least
[01:20] <Doranwen> when I chose one, it sized it not to the full screen, but to a *portion* of the screen, leaving weird colored dead space to the right and bottom
[01:21] <Doranwen> does anyone know enough to help me figure out how to get this to work?  I've installed Linux before (I run Linux Mint myself), but troubleshooting video card issues is not something I know much about
[01:38] <holstein> Doranwen: well, "the latop can handle" is not really relevant
[01:38] <holstein> Doranwen: its more about, what the hardware can support in linux
[01:38] <holstein> !nomodeset | Doranwen
[01:38] <Doranwen> it doesn't boot into black or anything
[01:38] <holstein> Doranwen: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1270209
[01:38] <Doranwen> it just doesn't use the full screen
[01:39] <Doranwen> like there's a big strip to the right and the bottom (about 2/5 of it) that are weird colors, and the display is confined to a rectangle in the upper left, about 3/5 of the whole thing
[01:39] <holstein> Doranwen: sure.. and, ideally, your manufacturer would supply you support for linux, as they did for XP.. but, since that doesnt happen, you have to do it
[01:39] <holstein> Doranwen: think of it this way.. a company paid a team of developers to make sure XP ran on your hardware.. now, you are taking on that burden with linux
[01:40] <holstein> Doranwen: have you tried nomodeset? or the vesa driver with the xorg.conf i linked?
[01:40] <Doranwen> right
[01:40] <holstein> if not, try those options and go from there..
[01:40] <Doranwen> lol, not yet, I'm just getting to the nomodeset option
[01:41] <holstein> Doranwen: i'll use a few live CD's.. knoppix.. and also puppy linux has a nice wizard at boot.. ill copy the xorg.conf files from there and edit them a bit if needed and use them with ubuntu or whatever
[01:42] <Doranwen> I've got the vesa driver link up
[01:42] <Doranwen> I can always copy/paste via USB once it's install, yes/no?
[01:42] <Doranwen> *installed
[01:42] <Doranwen> in terms of the xorg.conf
[01:42] <holstein> Doranwen: correct
[01:43] <Doranwen> it'd be a bit of a pain to type it all from looking *g*
[01:43] <holstein> Doranwen: dont worry about the resolution and all that. just try it as is and see how the vesa driver is
[01:43] <Doranwen> but yeah, it's trying the install with the nomodeset
[01:43]  * Doranwen nods
[01:43] <holstein> Doranwen: is this an older nvidia card?
[01:44] <Doranwen> not sure, it's a Dell Inspiron 1100
[01:44] <Doranwen> this is what I found:  http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/dell-inspiron-1100-review/
[01:44] <Doranwen> they've got a larger hdd than that
[01:44] <Doranwen> but the RAM's the same
[01:44] <Doranwen> I can't even see the video card listed there
[01:44] <holstein> Doranwen: dell will choose hardware. that hardware has chipsets.. so, even if you found someone else with that *exact* same model #, it may not have the same chipsets
[01:45]  * Doranwen nods
[01:45] <holstein> all dell has to do is what they promised.. which is provide windows drivers for all the hardware
[01:45] <holstein> lspci in a terminal can tell you what specific chipsets you have
[01:45] <Doranwen> I'll do that as soon as I can get to a terminal
[01:45] <holstein> Doranwen: intel hardware typically supports linux well
[01:47]  * Doranwen nods
[01:47] <Doranwen> I'm running Intel on this box
[01:48] <Doranwen> lol, bad wording
[01:48] <Doranwen> but you know what I mean
[01:48]  * Doranwen waits for base system to install
[01:48] <Doranwen> I've got this half-knowledge--I can google a good number of issues and solve them, but throw me a video driver issue and I'm lost
[01:49] <Doranwen> thanks for your patience :)
[01:53] <holstein> Doranwen: i hear you.. it can be challenging
[01:54] <holstein> just knowing that the xp support is really irrelevant.. and that there is always the vesa driver.. and how to see what chipsets you have can help
[01:54] <holstein> Doranwen: xp support is good for determining if the hardware is funcitoning properly
[01:54] <Doranwen> if this is reliable, it gives some info:  https://www.dell.com/downloads/emea/products/inspn/inspn_1100_uk.pdf
[01:54] <Doranwen> yeah, they said it worked--just slow
[01:55] <Doranwen> which I believe
[01:55] <Doranwen> given the specs, lol
[01:55] <holstein> Doranwen: you have it maxed out to 512 ram?
[01:56] <holstein> with those specs, i would probably stick with something like puppy linux.. though, if you can get lubuntu installed, there really is not many lighter full-featured distros
[01:58] <holstein> or, i would just not run x on it.. have a headless server kind of thing.. a test machine
[01:59] <holstein> these are nice and easy for that.. http://www.turnkeylinux.org/
[02:00] <Doranwen> no, it's still 256
[02:00] <Doranwen> I'll recommend they max it out
[02:00] <Doranwen> but I'd have to order the memory first
[02:00] <Doranwen> and just looked at it today
[02:01] <Doranwen> they'll need graphics
[02:01] <Doranwen> this is an older woman who knows nothing about computers
[02:01] <Doranwen> she just checks her e-mail and logs into her bank
[02:01] <Doranwen> that's about it
[02:01] <holstein> they?
[02:01] <Doranwen> doesn't even watch videos
[02:01] <Doranwen> couple
[02:01] <holstein> id recommend "they" replace it
[02:01] <Doranwen> this is her laptop
[02:01] <Doranwen> lol
[02:01] <Doranwen> I recommend that too, but we'll see
[02:01] <holstein> these days hardware is so cheap/free
[02:01] <Doranwen> I told them to at least upgrade *his*
[02:01] <Doranwen> his is better than hers
[02:01] <Doranwen> she could use hers then
[02:02] <Doranwen> blech
[02:02] <holstein> i got 2 netbooks recently for $20 (total)
[02:02] <Doranwen> too many pronouns
[02:02] <holstein> 4 times the specs of that machine, and out of the box linux support
[02:02] <holstein> Doranwen: have you tried puppy linux?
[02:03] <holstein> Doranwen: puppy will be "tolerable" on there
[02:03] <holstein> down right responsive..
[02:04] <Doranwen> I've heard of it
[02:05] <Doranwen> tried it some years ago on a really old laptop
[02:05] <holstein> that *is* a really old laptop ;)
[02:05] <Doranwen> that ultimately did fine upgrading to 256 mb with xubuntu
[02:05] <Doranwen> lol
[02:05] <Doranwen> this is
[02:05] <Doranwen> I should try it
[02:05] <holstein> 256 is quite low for newer OS's
[02:05] <holstein> i mean, like i said, not much lighter than lubuntu.. with package management and all that that is easy
[02:06] <Doranwen> this was probably 6-7 years ago
[02:06] <holstein> the ubuntu base.. and all that
[02:06]  * Doranwen nods
[02:06] <holstein> but, puppy is for that specific case
[02:06] <holstein> and damn small linux
[02:06] <Doranwen> if the graphics can be sorted out to make 'em work, I'd prefer to stick to an ubuntu base, because I'm used to *buntu derivatives
[02:06] <Doranwen> yeah, I tried that one back then too
[02:06] <Doranwen> but not recently
[02:06] <holstein> there is also bodhi linux
[02:06] <holstein> based on an older ubuntu base.. might be "better" on there
[02:07] <ianorlin> it will run but barely
[02:07] <holstein> you can try anything 12.04 based, and the backend is still supported (basically)
[02:08] <ianorlin> like lxle is based on 12.04 and based on lubuntu
[02:08] <holstein> id say, if its for a tinkerer, its find.. but, if you are giving this to a casual xp user, they are going to hit an issue, and give up
[02:08] <holstein> yeah, lxle is a little lighter as well.. and an ubuntu base..
[02:09] <ianorlin> if graphics driver was dropped
[02:09] <holstein> well, gaming is out on that hardware.. so the vesa driver would be fine
[02:09] <Doranwen> all she needs is a browser to get to her e-mail, and a basic word-type program to type the occasional document
[02:10] <ianorlin> running a browser will be hard with 256
[02:10] <Doranwen> so I don't really care *what* I put on there as long as it uses the whole screen, lol
[02:10]  * Doranwen nods
[02:10] <ianorlin> maybe one tab max
[02:10] <holstein> sure, but thats just one issue
[02:10] <Doranwen> she's been doing it with 256 mb, so I don't think she cares
[02:10] <holstein> she will though, when it doesnt function properly, or as expected
[02:10] <holstein> its not going to a tinkerer
[02:10] <Doranwen> xp surely must use more resources than some of those oses
[02:10] <holstein> Doranwen: sure.. but its well supported by xp
[02:11] <Doranwen> lol this is true
[02:11] <holstein> driver support can make stability
[02:11] <Doranwen> but they're not willing to live with XP
[02:11] <Doranwen> because it's not supported anymore
[02:11] <Doranwen> and everyone's freaking out about that
[02:11] <holstein> sure.. but, thats what is promised for that hardware
[02:11] <Doranwen> worse comes to worse, she has to quit using it
[02:11] <Doranwen> and get a new laptop
[02:11] <Doranwen> but I'd like to at least attempt this first
[02:11] <holstein> theres no doubt you can tinker around and make linux work there
[02:12] <holstein> but, can she?
[02:12] <holstein> and, why would she? when you can literally dig better hardware from the trash
[02:12] <holstein> Doranwen: you can take that machine to bestbuy, and they give you $100 for it, in the US
[02:12] <holstein> towards the purchase of a new machine...
[02:12] <Doranwen> seriously?
[02:12] <holstein> that might be better for the non-tinkerer
[02:13]  * Doranwen hadn't heard of that one
[02:13] <holstein> i mean, again.. no doubt you *can* make that machine work..
[02:13] <ianorlin> I have seen better hardware for sale for 40 on craigslist
[02:13] <holstein> i bought 2 netbooks for $10 a pop
[02:13] <holstein> did nothing but install lubuntu and xubuntu on them.. they work great
[02:30] <Doranwen> I can find cheap desktops there, but not laptops
[02:30] <Doranwen> well, $50 is cheap
[02:30] <Doranwen> so that's not too bad
[02:30] <Doranwen> but anyway, I'll see what I can do with what they have, and try to talk them into getting something better
[02:31] <Doranwen> the husband's laptop is better specs overall, they'd probably do great to get him something new, and transform his into something for the wife
[02:31] <Doranwen> and jettison this old thing
[02:39] <ianorlin> At least it isn't something like my grandparets got that probably couldn't get lubuntu on because not enoguh hard drive space with 2 gigabyte hard drive and had no ethernet port so couldn't connect to internet
[02:40] <Doranwen> wow
[02:40] <ianorlin> my dad was adamant in not giving them linux but going from windows 98 to 7 is still quite a jump
[02:42] <Doranwen> wow yeah
[02:42] <Doranwen> we upgraded in increments
[02:42]  * Doranwen still remembers Windows 3.11
[02:42] <Doranwen> ok, install done, rebooting
[02:44] <Doranwen> lol, this time it's at least centered in the middle of the screen--but still only 640x480
[02:44] <Doranwen> next step has to do with that xorg.conf?
[03:37] <Doranwen> holstein: I tried copying the xorg.conf, it blackscreened on reboot--any suggestions on what I should try tweaking?
[03:37] <Doranwen> I've got a commandline now, and I'm fairly comfortable with vi so don't mind tweaking that way
[03:55] <Doranwen> I did convince them, btw, to get a new laptop and let the wife use the husband's old one
[03:55] <Doranwen> this one I'd still like to get working, bare basics, and give it to some elementary kid to type reports on
[03:56] <ianorlin> I ended up getting my grandparents an all in one
[03:56] <Doranwen> it'd cost $20 just to get the memory upgraded, so if the kid wants that, I'd be happy to order it, upgrade, and presto! they've got a *really* basic laptop
[03:56] <Doranwen> but it still bugs me that I can't get the graphics to work right on this
[03:57] <Doranwen> I tested both Puppy Linux and DSL, too
[03:57] <Doranwen> Puppy Linux was WEIRD graphically
[03:57] <Doranwen> it loaded all right
[03:57] <Doranwen> but letters were missing all over the place
[03:57] <Doranwen> like the welcome message was missing the L's and such
[03:57] <Doranwen> very odd
[03:58] <Doranwen> DSL complained about the same video mode, but the boot options are dizzying, no idea which to try
[03:58] <Doranwen> so it's still sitting on that
[03:58] <Doranwen> and I'm moving onto other things, but if someone has any ideas, call my name and I'll poke my head back in :)
[04:11] <holstein> Doranwen: are you sure its not broken hardware?
[04:12] <Doranwen> it ran XP fine, and you said that showed the hardware wasn't busted
[04:18] <holstein> Doranwen: when setting up puppy, you chose the vesa driver? as a test?
[04:18] <holstein> also, you can look, by runing lspci, and let us know what hardware you have
[04:18] <holstein> !paste
[04:19] <Doranwen> oh, I didn't install puppy, just booted off the hdd
[04:19] <Doranwen> *cd
[04:19] <Doranwen> I mean
[04:19] <Doranwen> whatever the default
[04:19] <Doranwen> just to see how it handled
[04:19] <Doranwen> it didn't present me with any options
[04:19] <holstein> Doranwen: sure.. *dont* install.. just try the vesa driver specifically
[04:19] <Doranwen> I can't remember right now, the DSL disc is in the drive now
[04:19] <holstein> Doranwen: it will present you with the option for the vesa driver
[04:19] <holstein> thats the fail safe driver..
[04:21] <Doranwen> ok, right now I'm confused--you want to try tweaking the xorg.conf that you linked me to before? or try booting puppy instead of that?
[04:21] <holstein> Doranwen: puppy allows you to set up a fail safe environment
[04:21] <holstein> Doranwen: there are 2 things i would like for you to do
[04:21] <holstein> Doranwen: pastebin the output of lspci, and share what hardware is in the unit
[04:21] <holstein> then, try and get the vesa driver to work
[04:22]  * Doranwen blinks at laptop
[04:22] <Doranwen> DSL actually is using the full screen
[04:22]  * ianorlin sometimes wishes pastebinit was installed by defualt
[04:22] <Doranwen> by default
[04:22] <Doranwen> I'd had it booting, just told it to continue when it said undefined video mode
[04:23] <holstein> Doranwen: sure.. so, you can now look and see if there is an xorg.conf in place.. see what driver is being used.. make a note of the kernel version and graphics modules
[04:23] <holstein> Doranwen: thats just a message
[04:23] <holstein> Doranwen: "undefined video mode"
[04:23] <Doranwen> I'll see if I can't get on here via IRC there
[04:23]  * Doranwen nods
[04:23] <holstein> http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=19897
[04:23] <holstein> for example ^
[04:24] <holstein> Optionally, add vga=788 or vga=ask to the kernel boot line.
[04:24] <Doranwen> it defaults to booting with vga=788
[04:24] <Doranwen> Lubuntu did
[04:24] <holstein> Doranwen: i force it
[04:24] <Doranwen> I spotted that in the parameters
[04:24] <Doranwen> ah
[04:24] <holstein> Doranwen: i dont wait or trust defaults.. not on this level
[04:24] <Doranwen> oh right
[04:24] <Doranwen> 788 is 800x600
[04:24] <Doranwen> I actually forced it to 791
[04:24] <Doranwen> the 1024x768
[04:24] <Doranwen> that's what I did
[04:25] <ianorlin> where do you find what these numbers mean?
[04:25] <Doranwen> DSL has a mode option
[04:25] <Doranwen> F3 when you load it
[04:25] <Doranwen> and it gives a whole table
[04:25] <holstein> yup
[04:25] <Doranwen> color depth one way, resolution the other
[04:25] <holstein> you just have to configure it as you want.. and test
[04:25] <Doranwen> I picked 16 bit with 1024x768
[04:25] <Doranwen> it goes up to 24 bit, I wasn't sure if I should try that
[04:25] <holstein> *then* you move on to the other issues.. .hopefully not taking 5 hours a piece
[04:28] <Doranwen> lol yeah
[04:28] <Doranwen> bah, I can't copy from the terminal there
[04:28] <Doranwen> I'd paste into pastebin, but there's no way to copy
[04:28] <Doranwen> that I can find, at least
[04:29] <Doranwen> is there a command I don't know about?  both Ctrl+C and Ctrl+Shift+C just create a new line with a prompt, there's no right-click ability
[04:30] <ianorlin> Doranwen if you could install clipit then I think you could pipe output to that and then print it with clipit -p
[04:30] <Doranwen> the dsl user is me but I'm really not liking the IRC client on there--I can't tell what channel I'm in, even
[04:31] <Doranwen> no list of users, no clear anything
[04:31] <holstein> Doranwen: does she care about the IRC?
[04:32] <holstein> make sure you aim for the target audience..
[04:32] <Doranwen> no--I'm trying to work with it to get you the output of the hardware
[04:32] <Doranwen> and I can't
[04:32] <Doranwen> it's impossible to use
[04:32] <Doranwen> I think the colors are out of whack
[04:32] <Doranwen> very likely
[04:32] <Doranwen> probably using the wrong set
[04:33] <Doranwen> the one option I can think of is to boot back into Lubuntu, get to the command prompt, delete the xorg.conf I tested, and reboot into Lubuntu, *then* try to figure out how to pastebin from there and I can type the pastebin link over here, IRC or no
[04:34] <holstein> you can do that from the live CD
[04:34] <Doranwen> that might take a few min
[04:34] <holstein> you dont need to boot into anything to remove the xorg.conf
[04:34] <Doranwen> oh, true, right
[04:34] <Doranwen> I was going to do that before I tried fiddling with IRC
[04:34] <Doranwen> and forgot
[04:34] <Doranwen> this is frying my brain
[04:34] <holstein> but, you can try adding those kernel mode lines, and address the message at boot
[04:35] <Doranwen> I get easily confused about what I'm trying to do if I'm switching tasks every little bit with an unfamiliar problem
[04:35] <holstein> Doranwen: its challenging.. thats why i try and equate it to a team of proffessionals that dell paid for XP support
[04:35] <ianorlin> um there is weechat for command line irc if you have network and tty working on lubuntu
[04:35] <holstein> Doranwen: but, they are allowed to call the manufacturer and get information and/or drivers
[04:36] <Doranwen> I can't find the hard drive in this live cd
[04:36] <Doranwen> command prompt sends me in circles
[04:36] <holstein> Doranwen: might not be mounted
[04:37] <Doranwen> trying various commands got me to mtab
[04:37] <Doranwen> which doesn't seem to list the hdd anywhere
[04:38] <Doranwen> at least, not that I recognize it
[04:38] <Doranwen> I am so lost with this
[04:39] <Doranwen> might be best going back to Lubuntu
[04:39] <Doranwen> I know I can find it there
[04:39] <holstein> cool
[04:39] <holstein> i gotta crash.. goog luck, and keep us posted.
[05:01] <D-Grayman> hello?
[10:45] <WildSoft> Hello there =) I was hoping someone here could help me with a problem I'm having with "mtPaint graphic editor". When I try to crop a larger picture I get an allocation error. English isn't the native language used in the program so I'll try and translate the error: http://pastebin.com/GKYTiJFq
[10:46] <JohnDoe_71Rus> WildSoft: try pinta
[10:47] <WildSoft> Is that another package?
[10:49] <WildSoft> Lazy me, was quick to find out
[10:52] <WildSoft> Is it easy to use? I'm not the one going to use the computer but easily cropping pictures was high on their list. Tried all sorts of other programs like Gimp, but nothing was as easy to figure out as mtPaint. Just mark and press "Del". But I'll try Pinta and see. Thanks
[10:52] <JohnDoe_71Rus> pinta-project.com present in the repository
[10:53] <WildSoft> The second problem I'm having is accessing the windows partitions. The machine is dualbooted with Windows 8 and even though I shut down Windows properly I can't access the Windows partition or the second NTFS drive (another physical drive).
[10:53] <JohnDoe_71Rus> it is simple in pinta. select then Image - Cut selected (or some like this )
[10:53] <WildSoft> thank you JohnDoe_71Rus =) I'll try it
[12:15] <pucas> hi
[12:15] <pucas> I want to autorun some xrandr commands for all my users whenever LXDE is started.
[12:15] <pucas> tried adding them to the /etc/xdg/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart file but that didn't work.
[12:16] <pucas> specifically, I have two monitors and I need the xrandr to make them do useful things.
[12:21] <leszek> create a script and a .desktop that you can add to /etc/xdg/autostart
[12:22] <pucas> so I have to use .desktop files?
[12:22] <pucas> I thought it was enough to add my commands to the autostart file.
[12:22] <leszek> I would recommend it
[12:23] <pucas> fair enough. I just don't understand why adding the commands directly to the file didn't work.
[12:23] <leszek> as the autostart file might be updated with an package update
[12:23] <leszek> pucas: I am not sure if this is still used in 14.04 as there were lots of changes in lxsession (and I did not keep track of it)
[12:24] <pucas> hm yes. I am using 14.
[12:24] <leszek> and the .desktop stuff always works on any freedesktop.org complaint desktop
[12:24] <leszek> *compliant
[12:24] <pucas> ok, that sounds good. I will try that. thanks.
[12:26] <comics_idees> pucas I suggest you to use disper and disper-indicator it works for me
[12:27] <comics_idees> disper is like arandr
[12:27] <comics_idees> but i think in lubuntu disper is better
[12:35] <pucas> thanks for the tip, comics_idees.
[12:35] <pucas> I'm also experiencing some intermittent freezing problems. what is a good way to troubleshoot?
[12:35] <pucas> would dmesg be a place to look?
[12:35] <comics_idees> I also have freezing sometimes
[12:36] <comics_idees> I dont know how to fix it
[12:36] <comics_idees> I think that we must find a way to kill processes that freeze
[12:36] <comics_idees> system
[12:37] <pucas> it just happened. I think the problem may be the keyboard and mouse isn't found for some reason.
[12:37] <comics_idees> maybe it is the processes that do not work properly
[12:37] <comics_idees> and freeze system
[12:38] <comics_idees> I wish there was an app that kills automatically any process to freeze system so the system never freezes
[12:38] <comics_idees> but nobody creates this app
[12:39] <TheSchaf> but the freezing process will freeze the app too
[12:47] <comics_idees> yes but somehow the system should prevent this process to run
[12:47] <comics_idees> should stop it
[13:52] <asd> why can't i open run dialog when i type alt+F2? I just upgraded to 14.04.
[14:47] <comics_idees> is it a way to add vnc server to lubuntu and vnc client to a windows pc and connect the 2 computers?
[17:57] <comics_idees> hi I have an issue with sound in lubuntu
[17:58] <comics_idees> I have an external sound system and I use the sound out jack to connect it tou laptop
[17:58] <comics_idees> to
[17:58] <comics_idees> not tou
[17:58] <comics_idees> but with lubuntu the sound volume is too low
[17:58] <comics_idees> from jack to external system
[17:59] <comics_idees> I open the volume to large level and the sound is still very low volume
[17:59] <comics_idees> I increase the volume but it is still very low
[17:59] <comics_idees> should I download a program or a driver
[18:00] <comics_idees> to have better sound?
[18:01] <comics_idees> the sound is ok if I listen from laptop speakers
[18:01] <comics_idees> but it is very low if I connect laptop to external sound system
[18:02] <comics_idees> in fact the external system has increased volume but the laptop input has very low volume
[18:02] <comics_idees> I tried audacious
[18:02] <comics_idees> should I install another software
[18:03] <comics_idees> for better sound?
[18:03] <ianorlindesktop> in alsamixer did you turn down volume input?
[18:03] <ianorlindesktop> is that at max?
[18:03] <comics_idees> should I install alsamixer?
[18:04] <Mr_Comet> you need some kind of mixer to tweak.
[18:04] <ianorlindesktop> it is by default in lubuntu
[18:04] <comics_idees> in audacious has some choices alsa, or pulseaudio or other choices. What should I choose
[18:04] <comics_idees> ?
[18:05] <comics_idees> I must check alsa mixer then
[18:05] <Mr_Comet> comics_idees-  goto menu>accessories >LXTerminal
[18:05] <Mr_Comet> comics_idees-  then type alsamixer and enter>
[18:05] <comics_idees> ok
[18:05] <Mr_Comet> press <esc> when done/exit
[18:05] <Mr_Comet> im leaving.
[18:05] <Mr_Comet> good luck comics_idees
[18:05] <Mr_Comet> bye
[18:06] <comics_idees> thanks
[18:06] <Mr_Comet> comics_idees-  thx ianorlindesktop ;)
[18:06] <Mr_Comet> o/
[18:06] <comics_idees> what settings should I put to alsamixer?
[18:07] <ianorlindesktop> press f4 to get to capture
[18:08] <comics_idees> which software should I use for mp3 playing?
[18:08] <ianorlindesktop> mp3 codecs aren't installed by default but you can get them with the lubuntu-restricted-extras package
[18:09] <ianorlindesktop> there are silly legal reasons for no mp3 unfortanetly
[18:09] <comics_idees> I see
[18:09] <comics_idees> should I install lame?
[18:09] <ianorlindesktop> isn't that for encoding which I don't know much about
[18:10] <comics_idees> lame is needed in audacity to handle mp3 files
[18:11] <ianorlindesktop> apt-get synaptic or software center usually handles dependencies but not sure of details
[18:17] <comics_idees> do I need something like a driver?
[18:19] <ianorlindesktop> it is generally all included in the kernel
[18:40] <comics_idees> I found alsamixer but I do not know which bar to increase
[18:41] <ianorlindesktop> what are you trying to do again?
[18:42] <wxl> alsamixer should at least show master up and either headphone or speaker depending on which you're using, comics_idees
[18:42] <ianorlindesktop> I think he was talking about input sound
[18:42] <wxl> he did say something about mp3 playing
[18:42] <comics_idees> I want to use outpout jack
[18:42] <comics_idees> and connect to an external aux
[18:42] <comics_idees> system
[18:42] <wxl> you want to use jack as your sound server you mean?
[18:43] <comics_idees> no I use it as jack
[18:43] <comics_idees> I connect the cables
[18:43] <wxl> and you plug it in the mic output?
[18:43] <comics_idees> no
[18:43] <comics_idees> in the other output
[18:43] <wxl> what other output?
[18:43] <comics_idees> I plug the cables to headphones output
[18:44] <wxl> headphones are output
[18:44] <wxl> so again, are you trying to do output or input?
[18:44] <comics_idees> and I then plug the other end of cables to the aux system
[18:44] <comics_idees> so I try to use output
[18:44] <comics_idees> not input
[18:44] <wxl> right, so make sure the headphones output is up
[18:44] <wxl> (in alsamixer)
[18:45] <Cometz|Away> .
[18:45] <wxl> adjust your external device as needed
[18:45] <comics_idees> yes that is what I try to findout the headphone output in alsamixer
[18:45] <comics_idees> where can I adjust the headphone output in alsamixer?
[18:45] <wxl> if you have a small screen you may need to scroll to the right
[18:45] <comics_idees> and how I adjust it?
[18:46] <wxl> arrow keys
[18:46] <comics_idees> yes
[18:46] <comics_idees> and how alsamixer calls the headphone output?
[18:46] <comics_idees> line? or linejack
[18:46] <wxl> depends
[18:46] <comics_idees> ???
[18:47] <ianorlin2> hit f3 to go to playback
[18:47] <wxl> typically it's "headphone" but your soundcard may specify something else, like mic jack or line out or line or whatever
[18:47] <wxl> see this pic https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SB-WGqmaA9U/S8gwvh9fvdI/AAAAAAAAAPE/sRcJNv8ELng/s1600/Alsamixer.png
[18:47] <wxl> there it's called heaphone
[18:48] <comics_idees> I find two line the one is called line and the second linejack
[18:48] <wxl> note the OO at the bottom— that means unmuted
[18:48] <wxl> if you hit f3, which one of them do you see?
[18:49] <comics_idees> wait I try it again and I come back to tell you
[18:49] <wxl> here's one where they call it line http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/images/article259/alsamixer.gif
[18:49] <wxl> again, soundcard changes things
[18:50] <wxl> this one has line and linejack http://artemisa.unicauca.edu.co/~pmage/images/alsamixer_jack_off.jpg
[18:51] <wxl> where line jack only turns the output on or off. so you want that unmuted, as well as the line unmuted and levelled up
[18:54] <comics_idees> ok I have hit f3
[18:54] <comics_idees> it says headphone MM  PCM, line, line jac MM
[18:54] <comics_idees> the headphone is MM
[18:54] <wxl> read above ↑
[18:54] <comics_idees> and the line jac is MM
[18:54] <wxl> then it's muted
[18:54] <wxl> unmute it
[18:55] <wxl> (arrow over to it and hit m)
[18:55] <comics_idees> ok
[18:57] <comics_idees> I have 2 opotions headphone
[18:57] <comics_idees> the one says headphone
[18:57] <comics_idees> and the other says headphon jack sense
[18:57] <wxl> do you have two outputs?
[18:57] <comics_idees> no
[18:57] <comics_idees> one output
[18:57] <comics_idees> real
[18:57] <wxl> then the line must be a line in
[18:57] <wxl> so ignore that one
[18:58] <comics_idees> the headphone has 2
[18:58] <comics_idees> the one says headphone gain
[18:58] <wxl> do both have a bar to adjust up and down?
[18:58] <comics_idees> the first has bar
[18:58] <comics_idees> the second is 00
[18:59] <wxl> so unmute the second
[18:59] <comics_idees> and I press up arrow
[18:59] <wxl> unmute the first
[18:59] <comics_idees> yes
[18:59] <wxl> adjust the first up
[18:59] <wxl> that simple
[18:59] <comics_idees> I unmuted both
[18:59] <comics_idees> very simple
[18:59] <comics_idees> but the
[18:59] <comics_idees> second
[18:59] <comics_idees> cannot increase
[18:59] <comics_idees> so simple
[18:59] <wxl> it shouldn't
[18:59] <wxl> it's just a control
[18:59] <comics_idees> what control
[18:59] <wxl> it's like an on off switch
[18:59] <comics_idees> it is unmuted
[18:59] <comics_idees> and I press the up arroww
[19:00] <comics_idees> and does not go up
[19:00] <wxl> you don't increase volume on an on/off switch
[19:00] <wxl> it's either on or off
[19:00] <comics_idees> but it says headphone jac sence
[19:00] <wxl> your point being?
[19:00] <comics_idees> what is that
[19:01] <comics_idees> what is a headphone jac sense
[19:01] <wxl> not sure. check your soundcard's documentation
[19:01] <wxl> i don't have such a thing on mine
[19:01] <wxl> you can also try googling it
[19:01] <wxl> you have basic instructions to deal with this, so you need to apply it to your specific situation
[19:06] <comics_idees> ok I increased pcm
[19:06] <comics_idees> a little
[19:06] <comics_idees> and it sounds better
[19:43] <comics_idees> thank you for your help now it plays better
[19:43] <comics_idees> I increased pcm volume to max
[19:43] <comics_idees> and it is better now
[19:44] <comics_idees> many thanks to all
[19:45] <comics_idees> now I want to find a chrome plugin in lubuntu to play radio stations in webpages
[19:45] <comics_idees> is there any plugin like silverlight
[19:45] <comics_idees> for lubuntu chrome?
[19:45] <wxl> no not really
[19:46] <comics_idees> is there any way to set html5 play radio streaming?
[19:46] <comics_idees> or html5 video
[19:46] <comics_idees> in chrome lubuntu
[19:47] <wxl> there is this http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
[19:47] <wxl> html5 comes standard in both chrome and chromium
[19:48] <wxl> !info moonlight
[19:48] <wxl> oops :)
[19:48] <comics_idees> oh
[19:49] <comics_idees> In fact I wish to go to a webpage with radio and play the radio in chrome what should I do?
[19:49] <comics_idees> I see a missed plugin
[19:49] <wxl> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/moonlight
[19:49] <wxl> it's probably not html5 then
[19:50] <comics_idees> if I do not use moonlight is there any other way?
[19:50] <comics_idees> for example lets find a page
[19:50] <wxl> nope, unless you create a virtual machine of windows
[19:51] <comics_idees> http://www.jazzradio.com/
[19:51] <comics_idees> for example i want to listen to that
[19:52] <comics_idees> what should I do in chrome and lubuntu
[19:53] <comics_idees> or this page http://www.e-radio.gr/
[19:54] <wxl> plays fine for me
[19:55] <wxl> in both chrome and chromium
[19:55] <comics_idees> without any plugin?
[19:55] <wxl> that's right
[19:55] <comics_idees> ok I will try again later
[19:56] <comics_idees> what other software should I install for sound?
[19:56] <wxl> depends on what you want to do
[19:56] <wxl> there's tons of software
[19:56] <wxl> i'd just search and try things out
[19:56] <comics_idees> just to listen sound
[19:56] <comics_idees> in good quality
[19:57] <wxl> probably nothing you dont' already have then
[19:57] <comics_idees> maybe a software that opens all sound formats
[19:57] <wxl> you have to install the codecs to have that happen
[19:57] <wxl> most players will work with all the codecs
[19:58] <comics_idees> the codecs are installed manually?
[19:58] <wxl> some of them
[19:58] <comics_idees> i installed lubuntu-restricted-extras
[19:59] <wxl> those are all the non-free ones
[19:59] <wxl> there's also tons of free codecs you might not have
[19:59] <wxl> again, depends on how extreme you want to get
[19:59] <wxl> just search for codecs in the package manager
[19:59] <comics_idees> ok
[20:21] <SilverLion> JensNDS: hey vornamensvetter ;)
[21:47] <comics_idees> can I create a .desktop file and have 2 lines starting with Exec=  ? So I run 2 commands in the same file?
[21:48] <wxl> comics_idees: sure, just use ; or && to separate the commands
[21:48] <comics_idees> I must put Exec=  and Exec =  or one Exec=  and &&
[21:49] <comics_idees> ?
[21:49] <wxl> one exec
[21:49] <comics_idees> I put ; in the end of first command?
[21:49] <wxl> if you use ; the second command will run no matter what
[21:50] <comics_idees> so if I dont put ; I must put &&
[21:50] <comics_idees> right?
[21:50] <wxl> if you use && the second command wont run if the first one doesnt
[21:51] <comics_idees> hm I will try it
[21:51] <wxl> like if you open terminal and do blah; echo blah you'll get an error with blah but it will echo blah
[21:51] <wxl> if you do blah && echo blah, you just get the error and echo blah never happens
[21:52] <comics_idees> ok I ll try it
[21:52] <wxl> btw thanks for the suggestion for this jazz radio. i'm enjoying the hard pop channel
[21:53] <wxl> i'd rather listen to the avant garde but i'd probably piss everyone off at work XD
[21:53] <wxl> s/pop/bob/
[21:53] <wxl> ugh
[21:53] <wxl> bop!
[21:53] <comics_idees> I want on autostart to start disper  and disper-indicator so I would like to put in one .desktop file
[21:53] <wxl> why don't you just add both to ~/.config/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart?
[21:54] <wxl> if you put an at sign before the command it will restart if it closes for some reason, so you could do @disper for example
[21:54] <wxl> then you don't have to create a .desktop file
[21:54] <wxl> i have all sorts of things in my autostart
[21:55] <wxl> it sets my compose key, configures my track pad, runs skype, uses unclutter to hide my mouse, etc.
[21:55] <comics_idees> I have a confusion which must start first  disper or disper-indicator?
[21:56] <comics_idees> what is unclutter should I install it?
[21:57] <comics_idees> if the disper starts first then the second screen has no wall paper
[21:57] <comics_idees> so I run disper-indicator and the wall paper appears to second screen
[21:57] <comics_idees> but if I run first disper-indicator maybe is better
[21:58] <wxl> i would experiment
[21:58] <wxl> see what's better
[21:58] <wxl> as for unclutter you probably don't want it. i use awesome for a window manager and pretty much use the keyboard for EVERYTHING. unclutter hides the mouse.
[21:59] <comics_idees> and why you dont use mouse?
[21:59] <comics_idees> you dont like it?
[21:59] <comics_idees> you work with keyboard shortcuts for everything?
[22:00] <wxl> pretty much
[22:00] <wxl> i mean there's certain things i need to use the mouse for. gimp, for example
[22:01] <comics_idees> ok I go to try the .desktop file
[22:02] <comics_idees> I will come back in a while
[22:20] <TaiSHi> Anyone came up with a decent puush client for linux?
[22:56] <TaiSHi> Oh, and there it goes
[22:56] <TaiSHi> It seems openbox/lxde don't support alpha channels
[23:11] <TaiSHi> And I fixed it
[23:28] <comics_idees> I tried to use 2 commands in .desktop file separated by ; but it did not work
[23:28] <wxl> try using quotes around the whole statement, comics_idees
[23:30] <comics_idees> for example I say Exec= "disper -s; disper-indicator"  ????
[23:30] <wxl> exec="blah blah blah"
[23:30] <comics_idees> will it work?
[23:31] <comics_idees> maybe should I use shell or something?
[23:31] <comics_idees> after Exec= shell etc
[23:32] <lxde1404> i performed a bare bones lubuntu 14.04 installation but i neither installed lubuntu-core nor lubuntu-desktop. I installed lxde-core and then network manager. however, i can not see network-manager's applet on my lxde session. what gives?
[23:32] <wxl> nope
[23:32] <wxl> just do Exec="disper -s; disper-indicator"
[23:32] <wxl> or do like i said and add to autostart
[23:32] <wxl> lxde1404: known bug. run nm-applet and it will come back (you can add it to autostart)
[23:33] <lxde1404> as a normal user or as root?
[23:34] <wxl> lxde1404: normal should work
[23:42] <lxde1404> i excuted nm-applet as a normal user, the nm applet appears but when i click on my wireless network i get a pop up window which says  " Connection failure. Failed to add/activate connection. (32) Not authorised to control networking"
[23:47] <wxl> lxde1404: it doesn't ask you for your password?
[23:47] <lxde1404> no
[23:47] <lxde1404> it seems a permissions issue
[23:48] <wxl> you might want to sudo nm-applet then
[23:48] <wxl> i don't need to so that's kind of strange


[06:59] <bdmurray> I'm curious about how bug 697453 ended up being reported.  Was a +filebug url presented to the reporter and could we stop that in some cases?
[06:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 697453 in ubiquity "installation program crash on cd apt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697453
[07:54] <ev> mpt, bdmurray and I had a brief conversation about automatically doing a CD consistency check over dinner last night
[07:55] <ev> I realize this has been discussed before and the conclusion was that it takes too long, but perhaps we can find some middle ground wherein we only hash at multiples of an offset
[07:56] <ev> or maybe the answer is to checksum files in ureadahead + ubiquity, with the theory being that anything else will nabbed by the installer
[07:59] <ev> oh, I'm forgetting the rest of the conversation and it's early
[07:59] <ev> usb-creator should always checksum the image (and be smart about it - it could look in .disk/info and pull down the md5sum that matches that build)
[07:59] <ev> and wubi will grow cd/usb burning with checksumming in 12.04 (presumably)
[12:36] <CIA-18> ubiquity: evand * r4835 trunk/tests/test_gtkwidgets.py: Add bug reference to GTK exceptions workaround in test_gtkwidgets.
[14:22] <CIA-18> wubi: evand * r226 trunk/data/isolist.ini: Bump the minimum space requirement to 5GB, to match Ubiquity.
[19:48] <lfaraone> Is the select-language screen in Oneiric supposed to look like http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/0115srb9/oneiricRunningVirtualBoxOSE_031.png ?
[23:40] <CIA-18> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1515 ubuntu/ (build/config/armel/omap4.cfg debian/changelog): Move armel/omap4 to 3.0.0-1202 kernels.
[23:41] <CIA-18> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1516 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu56


[16:46] <NoImNotNineVolt> hi, i have a question about building apache2 from source.
[16:47] <NoImNotNineVolt> if i build ubuntu/trusty apache2 from source, pull out the mod_autoindex.so from there, and stick it into an apache2 that was installed by apt, i get segfaults. why?
[16:49] <NoImNotNineVolt> possibly relevant: a diff of ldd outputs for the .so i built vs the one that was installed by apt shows different addresses, and it was suggested that PIE may be relevant.
[16:49] <NoImNotNineVolt> i'm just trying to get a better understanding of how reproducible builds are, etc.
[16:49] <NoImNotNineVolt> any insights on this subject would be appreciated.


[03:04] <humphreybc> hi everyone, I've just created a new channel for the ubuntu-manual project and I'd appreciate it if you could take a look. Channel is simply #ubuntu-manual
[03:06] <starcraftman> humphreybc: lo, what's ubuntu-manual?
[03:06] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[03:06] <humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[03:13] <humphreybc> Before I forget, I need to talk to someone about licensing of said manual
[03:13] <humphreybc> we sort of came to the conclusion in our meeting yesterday that CC would be appropriate, but what version of CC was the main problem - could anyone shed some light on this?
[03:33] <Rocket2DMn> we are down to 50 unassigned open bugs for ubuntu-docs
[03:42] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: woot, nice job you machine man you.
[03:42] <starcraftman> I been answering bit of programming questions from my new paddy :)
[11:08] <humphreybc> Hi, perhaps someone could quickly tell me how to create a wiki page header like on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid ?
[11:09] <humphreybc> I had a look at the source text and all it has is: <<Include(Lernid/Header)>>
[11:27] <humphreybc> anyone?
[11:53] <humphreybc> :(
[11:57] <Pendulum> humphreybc: go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid/Header and you'll see what Lernid/Header is
[11:58] <humphreybc> oh thanks!
[11:58] <Pendulum> so what you do essentially is create one wikipage just for the header and then link it into the main page you want it on
[12:07] <humphreybc> yup I worked that bit out, I just didn't realise that <<Include(Lernid/Header)>> was actually a link - I was thinking it was some sort of custom generated header from a site map or something
[12:08] <Pendulum> I only found out because it came up in another channel a couple days ago when someone was asking about editing a header for a wiki page
[12:10] <humphreybc> yeah i searched all over the internet for the last 20 minutes and couldn't find anything
[12:11] <humphreybc> maybe it should be noted in the wiki Help /SubPages documentation
[12:13] <humphreybc> oh does anyone know where some generic icons are that I can use in the menu bar?
[12:14] <humphreybc> If you take a look at Jono's site header https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid/Header
[12:14] <humphreybc> I could pinch his, but I'd rather find some different ones
[12:23] <humphreybc> nevermind
[12:24] <Pendulum> humphreybc: are you the person to contact for more information about the Ubuntu Manual project?
[12:25] <humphreybc> sure am
[12:25] <Pendulum> I sadly didn't find out about it until the meeting was pretty much over yesterday, but I'm definitely interested in helping out :)
[12:26] <humphreybc> Oh awesome, that's great. Well, we've got our own channel now - #ubuntu-manual
[12:26] <humphreybc> The team page is launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
[12:26] <humphreybc> and the wiki is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[12:26] <humphreybc> What would you be interested in doing?
[12:27] <Pendulum> umm... just about anything? i'm not hugely technical, but my day job is actually in publishing
[12:27] <humphreybc> oh that's awesome!
[12:27] <humphreybc> Well, we always need writers, I believe there are one or two unclaimed chapters. If you go to the blueprints page here https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[12:28] <humphreybc> You'll see some stuff that's still not assigned to anyone
[12:28] <humphreybc> I'm just writing up the full specifications for all the blueprints at the moment on the blueprint wiki page
[12:28] <humphreybc> Formatting has no one assigned, Editing is being taken care of by two people at the moment
[12:29] <Pendulum> *nods* i'll look around (i've also just joined the IRC channel)
[12:29] <humphreybc> Pretty much everything you need to know should be on the wiki, and if you keep an eye on the IRC channel you'll see a lot going on in the next couple of weeks as we try to get alpha sorted :)
[12:30] <humphreybc> also we've just changed to LaTeX - so if you know anything about that, there will be a lot of people with questions (including me!)
[12:30] <humphreybc> and if you know who to contact to get our shiny new channel logged, then that's something else to be done :)
[12:34] <humphreybc> Oh and might pay to have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings


[01:11] <axw> wallyworld: was doing dropoff (same goes for every tuesday), hence not at standup. yesterday I worked on taking instance AZ from volume attachments
[01:12] <wallyworld> axw: no worries, figured that's where you were
[01:12] <axw> I think I've got it working with AWS
[01:12] <wallyworld> awesome
[01:12] <wallyworld> axw: we also need to look at bug 1692729
[01:12] <mup> Bug #1692729: juju add-storage doesn't always grab ebs volumes on aws <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692729>
[01:13] <axw> weird
[01:13] <axw> ok
[01:18] <hml> wallyworld: can you take a look at the updates to: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7354
[01:19] <wallyworld> hml: yep
[01:19] <hml> wallyworld: ty
[01:26] <axw> wallyworld: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1692729 a release blocker?
[01:26] <mup> Bug #1692729: juju add-storage doesn't always grab ebs volumes on aws <juju:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692729>
[01:27] <wallyworld> axw: i think so, given a stakeholder found it and it affects conjure-up
[01:27] <axw> ok
[01:27] <axw> I'll finish up what I'm doing and look at that next
[01:37] <wallyworld> hml: LGTM, but with some tweaks to the test structure
[01:38] <hml> wallyworld: looking
[01:44] <thumper> babbageclunk: I need a rubberduck... or teddybear
[01:44] <thumper> babbageclunk: can I use you?
[01:44] <babbageclunk> thumper: yay, of course!
[01:45] <thumper> babbageclunk: stuff it is
[03:02] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: here's a PR with an upstream patch if you have a moment later https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7375
[03:28] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: lgtm's
[03:28] <wallyworld> ty
[03:28] <babbageclunk> oops - lgtm'd
[03:29] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: let's hope it fixes one of the source of races
[03:38] <babbageclunk> <fingers crossed emoji>
[03:53]  * thumper gets on filing bugs
[03:53] <thumper> jam: got 5 minutes for an update
[03:53] <thumper> ?
[03:53] <jam> thumper: sure
[03:53] <thumper> jam: 1:1
[03:54] <jam> joining
[04:20] <mup> Bug #1629113 changed: Juju deploy wordpress fails with MaaS <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629113>
[04:40] <wallyworld> axw: when you get a moment, here's a small PR to fix some CI test races https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7376
[04:46] <axw> wallyworld: left some comments
[04:48] <wallyworld> ok, ta
[04:54] <wallyworld> axw: i replied, see what you think
[04:55] <axw> wallyworld: "The race is because a test patches the Period value. This is done outside the watcher and is normally ok, except when race test are run."  <- if it's outside the watcher, how is there a race?
[04:56] <wallyworld> axw: because other tests use the watcher
[04:56] <wallyworld> so one test patches the global var
[04:56] <wallyworld> and another test is using a watcher which tries to access that var
[04:57] <wallyworld> that's my theory. i could repro easily. the PR fixes it
[04:59] <axw> wallyworld: the tests within a package are run sequentially. it sounds an awful lot like the test is doing dodgy things, and we should fix that too. the code change is fine though.
[04:59] <wallyworld> even with race?
[04:59] <wallyworld> it only shows up with race testing
[05:00] <axw> wallyworld: it won't ever do anything particularly bad, just maybe affect the timing of unrelated tests
[05:01] <wallyworld> the test doesn't do anything too bad on the surface. the Test() itself runs s.PatchValue(&watcher.Period, 200*time.Millisecond)
[05:01] <wallyworld> and then it starts up stuff
[05:01] <axw> which test is it?
[05:01] <wallyworld> TestDowngradeOnMasterWhenOtherControllerDoesntStartUpgrade
[05:03] <wallyworld> core issue looks like a problem with clean up
[05:03] <wallyworld> maybe watcher isn't being stopped
[05:03] <wallyworld> or stops when the cleanup runs to reset the patched value
[05:03] <axw> wallyworld: that test is totally doing the wrong thing. once the test has started, State (thus the watcher) will already have been created
[05:04] <axw> wallyworld: I think the PatchValue should be moved to SetUpSuite
[05:04] <wallyworld> hmmm, i think that's a good point. so it is patching the value after the watcher starts and tries to rely on that
[05:05] <wallyworld> yeah, moving it would be better
[05:05] <axw> wallyworld: changing the code to pass the period in is a step in the right direction though IMO
[05:05] <wallyworld> yeah, agreed
[05:05] <axw> wallyworld: i.e. away from using globals
[05:05] <wallyworld> yup
[05:05] <wallyworld> i'll move the patch code also
[05:05] <axw> wallyworld: thanks. just wanted to make sure the test wasn't doing anything too heinous
[05:06] <wallyworld> np, thanks for being thorough
[05:24] <wallyworld> thumper: can you attach relevant log snippets to the txnlog bug?
[05:27] <thumper> sure
[05:48] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: Can you take another look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7369? It's changed a bit...
[05:48] <wallyworld> sure
[05:49] <babbageclunk> thanks
[06:24] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: reviewed, thanks. i'm still quibbling about a set and a slice in the watcher. i like the uniter facade rework. oops, one thing i forgot - we should really catch and handle any CodeNotImplemented errors in the api uniter client. there's not much that can be done except to log a nice message and error out so the uniter restarts with the expectaction that the server will eventually start running the right version (I think)
[06:24] <wallyworld> or maybe it's not an issue since the controller always gets upgraded first
[07:32] <wpk> a one-liner: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7377
[11:29] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah - I think you're right about the slice+set. Doesn't make sense on the scale of relations we're talking about.
[11:41] <mup> Bug #1692866 opened: /snap/bin not in path for juju run/juju ssh <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692866>
[12:09] <babbageclunk> wpk: around? I've changed the Uniter API, and needed to change some of the versioning there. https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7369
[12:09] <babbageclunk> wpk: Could you take a look and confirm that I've handled your NetworkConfig/NetworkInfo change right?
[12:10] <babbageclunk> wpk: I've got NetworkConfig only on the v4 API and NetworkInfo only on v5. Make sense?
[12:18] <wpk> Is that the right PR? I don't see any Network{Info,Config} related things there
[12:19] <wpk> Ah, OK, NOw I see
[12:19] <babbageclunk> wpk: Well, none of it's about those, but if you look at the changes to apiserver/uniter/uniter.go
[12:19] <babbageclunk> wpk :)
[12:20] <wpk> Ah, the diff wasn't loaded
[12:21] <wpk> IMHO it's cleaner to have a 'clean' object on top (like UniterAPI) with everything implemented and make all the workarounds in 'older' stuff, so that if we want to get rid of old one we can simply, well, get rid of it
[12:22] <wpk> so UniterAPI is complete V5, and UniterAPIv{somethingolder} has the newer functions e.g. masked out
[12:22] <wpk> But that's a political decision :)
[12:23] <wpk> (we can even have the old functions in separate file, for cleaniness sake)
[12:25] <babbageclunk> wpk: Well, there's no way to mask out functions properly if you embed the pristine one, so the only way to do that would be not to embed but to explicitly delegate all the ones we want on each version.
[12:25] <wpk> Why there's no way?
[12:25] <wpk> From API standpoint if you create same-named function with 'wrong' signature it won't get published
[12:26] <babbageclunk> wpk: ? I'm not sure that's right.
[12:26] <wpk> func (u *UniterAPIV3) NetworkInfo(_, _ struct{}) {}
[12:26] <wpk> this one
[12:26] <wpk> it masks NetworkInfo from UniterAPIV3
[12:27] <wpk> since we don't publish functions with 2 arguments
[12:27] <babbageclunk> wpk: Hmm, didn't know about the 2-argument thing.
[12:28] <wpk> the rules are in rpc/rpcreflect/type.go, newMethod
[12:29] <babbageclunk> wpk: Ok, I'll check that out in the morning. Thanks.
[12:29] <wpk> function can have 0 or 1 argument, and 0 or 1 return values + optional error
[12:29] <wpk> (so (), (error), (x), (x, error), but not (x,y) )
[12:32] <babbageclunk> wpk: Yeah, makes sense. Ok, I'll do that, thanks!
[12:33] <wpk> Good night :)
[12:35] <babbageclunk> wpk: 'night!
[14:21] <mup> Bug #1692866 changed: /snap/bin not in path for juju run/juju ssh <juju:Incomplete> <snapd (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692866>
[23:23] <thumper> I'm at that phase of bug diagnostics where I'm wondering: how can this possibly be happening
[23:29] <babbageclunk> thumper: oh I love that bit
[23:30] <thumper> babbageclunk: I'm hitting the same code path from two different directions, one succeeds and one fails
[23:30] <thumper> WTF
[23:37] <thumper> babbageclunk: got 5 minutes to be a teddy bear?
[23:38] <babbageclunk> thumper: sure!


[02:45] <connor__> test
[03:18] <brianwbass> hello
 @RikMills, Incidentally, it's also @Schyken xD
 Hey
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/1nuIQP0E/file_19471.mp4
[07:22] <calcmandan> o/
[07:22] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:23] <calcmandan> it is morning. wow, already.
[07:23] <calcmandan> time to log into the bbs and play my dailies.
[09:17] <Alex-Zion> Hi everyone, I just upgrade to Kubuntu 19.10 from 19.04 but I have some nvidia driver problem, the system doesn't detect at all my Optimus GPU 525M so I annot install any driver
[09:28] <victor_> Hi guys
[09:28] <victor_> Anybody knows how can i get widgets in ubuntu 19.10
[09:30] <lordievader> Alex-Zion: Could you pastebin the output of `sudo lspci -k`?
[10:01] <user|84395> русскоязыяные есть?
[10:03] <user|84395> guys, i ned your help! I can't install libvit-bin...Can anyone help?
[10:07] <lordievader> What is the issue?
[10:09] <user|84395> The libvirt-bin package is not available, but is mentioned in the dependency list. etc...
[10:10] <user|84395> this message appears after the command sudo apt install libvirt-bin
[10:11] <lordievader> What version of Kubuntu are you using?
[10:11] <user|84395> 19.04
[10:13] <lordievader> Right, there is no libvirt-bin built from the source package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/5.4.0-0ubuntu5
[10:14] <lordievader> However, this howto doesn't state that you should install that: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Installation
[10:19] <user|84395> i used howto for 10.04 , but now I realized my mistake. time to try)
[10:22] <user|84395> #lordievader thank you very much! It's a worked! I'm happy)
[10:22] <lordievader> Glad I could help
[10:23] <victor_> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/libvirt.html some information about libvit
[10:27] <user|84395> Still question-after installations driver nvidia I have during boot system the picture has become more. Instead 1920x1080 has become roughly 1024x768
[10:29] <user|84395> That is, the logo "Kubuntu" increased in size and became " pixel"
[10:29] <user|84395> That is, the logo "Kubuntu" increased in size and became " pixel"
[10:30] <user|84395> Sorry for spam and my bad English)
[10:31] <lordievader> user|84395: What is the output of `sudo lspci -k`?
[10:31] <lordievader> !pastebin
[10:32] <user|84395> command not found
[10:33] <lordievader> Is the package `pciutils` installed?
[10:34] <user|84395> Executed the command from under "root" so nothing was displayed. There's a lot of information out there. What do you want me to show you?
[10:35] <lordievader> I'd like you  to pastebin the entire output
[10:35] <lordievader> !ops
[10:36] <HeadlessHorseman> Ah, telegram..
[10:38] <lordievader> Hrmm, that makes it difficult to block. Sorry, about that.
[10:39] <user84395> i can't paste this info
[10:40] <lordievader> Why not?
[10:40] <user84395> chat writes me - (0) There was an error with TheP(aste)B.in!
[10:40] <lordievader> As an alternative you can use https://paste.ubuntu.com/
[10:41] <user84395> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YXyrJncJQr/
[10:43] <lordievader> How did you install the nvidia driver?
[10:44] <user84395> v. 390
[10:44] <user84395> ow
[10:44] <user84395> via the console
[10:45] <lordievader> What commands did you run exactly?
[10:45] <lordievader> The reason I'm asking is that nouveau (the open source driver) should be blacklisted but is, in your case , still loaded.
[10:47] <user84395> nvidia-driver-390  then after installing - nvidia-xconfig
[10:49] <user84395> apt install nvidia-drive-390 ,to be exact , and then nvidia-xconfig
[10:50] <lordievader> That package should blacklist the nouveau driver. Is there a file along those lines in `/etc/modprobe.d/`?
[10:54] <user84395> yes, have  - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Cgz58XmvZW/
[10:55] <user84395> wait, in some of the files there must be an entry about nouveau ?
[10:56] <lordievader> Yes
[10:57] <lordievader> If not, follow these instructions: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-nouveau-nvidia-driver-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
[10:57] <user|84395> I think in the blacklist file.conf?
[10:57] <user|84395> blacklist.conf
[10:58] <AlexZion> After upgrading to kubuntu 19.10, no more Nvidia Optimus GPU is detected, I already check with 14.04 on other partition and the hardware works as expected, what's going on with 19.10 ?
[10:59] <lordievader> AlexZion: Could you pastebin the output of `sudo lspci -k`?
[10:59] <lordievader> user|84395: Check it, I cannot answer that for you.
[11:00] <AlexZion> of course lordievader, here it is https://pastebin.com/Y5jQLMDm
[11:01] <lordievader> AlexZion: Interesting. Anything in dmesg about this?
[11:02] <AlexZion> lordievader: how should I check it ?
[11:02] <lordievader> AlexZion: `sudo dmseg -T`
[11:02] <lordievader> Err dmesg*
[11:03] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[11:03] <user84395> @lordievader thank you, I will try
[11:03] <AlexZion> lordievader: dmseg, command not found
[11:04] <lordievader> AlexZion: I made a typo, needs to be `sudo dmesg -T`.
[11:04] <lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
[11:05] <AlexZion> lordievader: much better :D, now I'll check it
[11:06] <BluesKaj> hey lordievader
[11:09] <AlexZion> lordievader: the only related things seems to be this "VGA switcheroo: detected Optimus DSM method \_SB_.PCI0.PEG0.PEGP handle"
[11:22] <user|84395> lordievader need your help
[11:23] <user|84395> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zDfjBdnGsf/
[11:24] <user|84395> howto not help https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-nouveau-nvidia-driver-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
[11:25] <user|84395> Everything was done according to the instructions, but still did not help(((
[11:33] <BluesKaj> user|84395,  didn't help how?
[11:35] <user|84395> BluesKaj reboot the system and I still have a problem-the logo "kubuntu" is large enough, i.e. the screen resolution at boot time is approximately 1024x768 instead of 1920x1080
[11:36] <user|84395> it's not good
[11:37] <user|84395> I will try to install a newer driver-418, maybe it will help
[11:40] <lordievader> Nouveau is still loaded
[11:41] <BluesKaj> driver in use is nvidia
[11:41] <lordievader> AlexZion: Nothing about nvidia or nouveau?
[11:43] <lordievader> BluesKaj: In the case of user84395, it is both.
[11:43] <AlexZion> lordievader: I tried sudo dmesg -T | grep nvidia and I got this
[11:43] <AlexZion> https://pastebin.com/p8Akmnm9
[11:45] <user|84395> BluesKaj Can all messages be written anew?
[11:45] <user|84395> i reboot OS
[11:45] <AlexZion> lordievader: trying sudo dmesg -T | grep nouveau I get this https://pastebin.com/4YPsBj87
[11:46] <lordievader> AlexZion: That seems to detect an nvidia card.
[11:47] <AlexZion> exactly lordievader but with a lspci there is not nvidia card
[11:48] <lordievader> AlexZion: Do you have entries in `/sys/class/drm`?
[11:48] <BluesKaj> For the driver in use :
[11:48] <BluesKaj>  lspci -nnk | grep -i vga -A3 | grep 'in use' , include the quotes
[11:50] <AlexZion> lordievader: how should I check it ?
[11:50] <lordievader> AlexZion: Just `ls /sys/class/drm`
[11:51] <AlexZion> lordievader: card0  card0-DP-1  card0-HDMI-A-1  card0-LVDS-1  card0-VGA-1  renderD128  ttm  version
[11:52] <lordievader> That looks promising.
[11:53] <lordievader> What is the output of `xrandr --listproviders`?
[11:53] <lordievader> AlexZion: ^
[11:53] <AlexZion> lordievader:
[11:53] <AlexZion> Providers: number : 1
[11:53] <AlexZion> Provider 0: id: 0x45 cap: 0x9, Source Output, Sink Offload crtcs: 2 outputs: 4 associated providers: 0 name:modesetting
[11:54] <lordievader> Hrmm -.-
[11:57] <AlexZion> lordievader: did you saw something weard I guess :)
[11:59] <lordievader> Well typically DP and HDMI connections go via the discrete card, so having those in /sys/class/drm is a good sign. However, xrandr should report more providers.
[12:00] <lordievader> Are DP and HDMI connections listed under the output of `xrandr`?
[12:18] <AlexZion> lordievader: https://pastebin.com/z7d2WKAh
[12:20] <lordievader> "Disconnected"
[12:20] <lordievader> No idea why its half detected, AlexZion
[12:22] <AlexZion> lordievader: me too, it's a very strange situation
[12:23] <lordievader> Is it a very old nvidia card, or something?
[12:26] <fkadmin> #mailcow
[12:42] <AlexZion> lordievader: is a quite old laptop (Dell XPS 15Z L511Z) with an old card but not too old I guess, I mean on 19.04 worked just fine with nvidia driver
[12:44] <lordievader> My reasoning is flawed. It should still show up even if nvidia/nouveau dropped support for it.
[12:59] <kanderoo> hey what's going on
[13:04] <BluesKaj> kanderoo,  do you have a kubuntu question?
[15:14] <jubo2> I have a dual-boot on UEFI issue when installing Kubuntu 19.10 alongside a Windows 7
[15:17] <jubo2> To get to grub I need go to UEFI, to select something that doesn't work and then I can get a GRUB where I have windows and Kubuntu. I've tried update-grub in the Kubuntu and it does not see the Windows, but after choosing to boot from EFI file I get a GRUB with all I'd need, I would just like to appear on bootup
[15:19] <jubo2> that computer is of low importance so the issue is not pressing and I need to admit that the first time I installed several months ago I broke the Windows 7 EFI files and needed to rebuild them from a Windows 7 installer stick. So perhaps not everything is as Kubuntu installer expects, so could be my fault
[15:20] <jubo2> fall-back after failing others brings up GRUB with both OS. Booting to the Kubuntu and update-grub will not add the Windows 7. But like I said, I broke it once. Could be broken because of that still
[15:41] <BluesKaj> jubo2,  have you tried os-prober ?
[18:33] <Guest97113> Hi,
[18:33] <Guest97113> I've got a problem with nvidia drivers. Despite being blacklisted they keep getting loaded. Any idea what is responsible for this?
[20:12] <RonaldsMazitis> I have problems with KDE plasma
[20:12] <RonaldsMazitis> how to restore default configuration
[20:12] <RonaldsMazitis> I did rm -rf .kde/share/config/plasma-*
[20:13] <RonaldsMazitis> did not change a thing
[20:13] <RonaldsMazitis> login takes like 3 minutes
[20:13] <RonaldsMazitis> after opening anything, it just kicks me out to login screen
[20:14] <RonaldsMazitis> I'm on buntu 18.04
[20:31] <valorie> huh, they left
[20:33] <kinghat> so if i have plasma desktop on top of ubuntu 19.04 and upgrade to 19.10 is disables the 3rd party repos, then you would enable it again and look for updates or how does that all work?
[20:35] <valorie> as I said, I wouldn't advise that, but if that's what you have, it should work, yes
[20:35] <valorie> the first thing I usually do after a major upgrade is enable updates and backports PPAs
[20:35] <valorie> https://kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5-17-for-kubuntu-19-10-available-in-backports-ppa/ gives you how to do that
[20:55] <klywilen> Tried upgrading from 19.04 to 19.10 but hung up on 'Installing the upgrades - Applying changes' for over 6 hours now. 19.04 seems to be working ok. How do I get out of this?
[20:56] <valorie> klywilen: yikes
[20:56] <valorie> if you just quit, you might hose your system
[20:56] <valorie> do you have good backups?
[20:56] <klywilen> $ su yikes ?
[20:57] <valorie> ha
[20:58] <klywilen> I have the original iso disc. My important data is stored off the machine.
[20:58] <valorie> control alt f4 will get you to a terminal
[20:58] <valorie> klywilen: a clean install is very fast
[20:59] <valorie> you can be done in 15 minutes
[21:00] <klywilen> I got the terminal
[21:00] <valorie> but don't stay on 19.04 for very long
[21:00] <valorie> it's only supported for another 3 months
[21:01] <valorie> ok, try sudo do-release-upgrade
[21:01] <valorie> will it let you do that?
[21:03] <RonaldsMazitis> when I was using openbox, tracker fs did not start
[21:03] <RonaldsMazitis> now I tried kde, and tracker fs is taking resources
[21:03] <RonaldsMazitis> I thought zeitgeist is only process that is used in buntu for file search
[21:03] <RonaldsMazitis> which process does kde use
[21:03] <RonaldsMazitis> for file search
[21:03] <RonaldsMazitis> ?
[21:03] <blaze[m]> baloo
[21:03] <klywilen> 19.04 seems to be working just fine
[21:03] <klywilen> ok - see what you mean
[21:04] <klywilen> that's why I wnated to try 19.10
[21:04] <RonaldsMazitis> blaze[m]: not in my process list
[21:04] <klywilen> Terminal : Checking for a new Ubuntu release. Please install all available updates for your release before upgrading.
[21:06] <valorie> klywilen: so do sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[21:06] <valorie> that's always the first step anyway
[21:07] <valorie> you aren't running the Plasma beta (16.90) right?
[21:07] <valorie> because if so you will want to ppa-purge that beta
[21:07] <blaze[m]> RonaldsMazitis: qdbus org.kde.kded5 /kded org.kde.kded5.loadModule baloosearchmodule


[00:01] <Woody86> Hello everybody :D
[00:01] <csilk> Hello
[00:55] <coppro> this makes no sense
[00:55] <coppro> my intrepid chroot has no upgrades in 4 months?
[01:04] <crimsun> coppro: ensure that it actually has intrepid for apt's configuration.
[01:04] <coppro> thx
[01:59] <cody-somerville> ScottK, ping
[02:42] <philsf> how can I recompile evince with libpoppler3, instead of libpoppler2, assuming I already have all -dev deps installed? what do I need to change in evince's /debian/* to make it use the newer libs?
[02:43] <RAOF_> philsf: Nothing.
[02:44] <nixternal> ya, libpoppler-dev == libpoppler3
[02:44] <StevenK> philsf: It already does, in Intrepid
[02:44] <ScottK> cody-somerville: Pong
[02:45] <cody-somerville> Incase StevenK gets too busy, can you upload https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/284857 ?
[02:46] <StevenK> cody-somerville: Nearly done
[02:46] <StevenK> As in dput'ing now
[02:46] <cody-somerville> StevenK, \o/
[02:46] <StevenK> cody-somerville: Looking
[02:46] <ScottK> Ah.  So I'm not needed.
[02:47] <philsf> StevenK: I want to do this in hardy, I should have said that
[02:47] <philsf> I already backported libpoppler from intrepid
[02:47] <StevenK> Eek
[04:10]  * ScottK notes that Universe is still open for bug fixes.
[04:12] <mneptok> ScottK: that's why i still attend church.
[04:14] <philsf> about version number: is the string "ubuntu1.0" considered greater than "ubuntu1"?
[04:14] <philsf> make that ubuntu1.0~philsf
[04:15] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:15] <Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~% dpkg --compare-versions ubuntu1.0 gt ubuntu1 && echo true
[04:15] <Hobbsee> true
[04:15] <philsf> I just noted to my shame that ubuntu1~philsf is actually *less* than ubuntu1. what should I use if I want to keep the package installed, and be able to upgrade if a new version comes out?
[04:16] <philsf> 1.0~philsf is enough?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~% dpkg --compare-versions ubuntu1.0~philsf lt ubuntu1 && echo true                                     2:16PM
[04:16] <Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~%
[04:16] <Hobbsee> so, ubuntu1.0~philsf is greater than ubuntu1
[04:17] <philsf> thanks, Hobbsee and ScottK
[04:19] <philsf> dpkg-buildpackage wants to make clean, how can I keep the compilation and just rebuild the package? is it a one-liner?
[04:20] <philsf> just to change the version, that is
[04:34] <RAOF> philsf: "man dpkg-buildpackage" will help you; the particular switch you're looking for is '-nc'
[04:34] <StevenK> RAOF: I had a Do question
[04:35] <StevenK> RAOF: Is there a "I don't like this match, give me the next one" button?
[04:42] <ScottK> I don't have time to investigate in detail, but it looks like the twiki update in Bug 261962 is one we'd want for the release.  Can someone bend it into shape and upload it?
[04:46] <RAOF> StevenK: Yes.  "Down".
[04:46] <RAOF> StevenK: That'll bring up the results list.  Does this mean I should be setting "always show results list" by default?
[04:47] <StevenK> RAOF: Hmmm.
[04:47] <RAOF> No, I mean the fact that you need to ask the question.
[04:48] <StevenK> Oh, I found down by myself, I was curious if there was a better way
[04:48] <StevenK> RAOF: I wonder if the Firefox plugin can deal with bookmarks that contain '%s'
[04:48] <RAOF> Another button that does the same thing as 'down'?
[04:49] <StevenK> RAOF: No, a button that skips to the second item on the results list
[04:49] <StevenK> s/second/next/
[04:49] <RAOF> Ah.  Without bringing up the results list?
[04:49] <StevenK> Right
[04:49] <RAOF> No, I don't think so.  I'm not totally sold on such a button being a good idea, either.
[04:50] <RAOF> And I don't know about the firefox plugin; possibly?
[04:52] <StevenK> Hmph. The launchpad plugin needs hooks for Package bugs and Package overview
[04:53] <RAOF> Correct.
[04:53] <RAOF> Mmm.  With the launchpad API release, it might also be nice to add some bugs to Do's universe.
[04:54] <StevenK> Is there any API bindings to C# ?
[04:56] <RAOF> Probably not.  Is there a C api?
[04:56] <RAOF> It's only python as of now, isn't it.
[05:01] <RAOF> Hm.  Seems like writing C# bindings wouldn't be unassailably hard.
[05:01] <ajmitch> certainly nto
[05:02] <ajmitch> it should only take you a few hours, I'm sure :)
[05:11] <ScottK> persia: I think some java'ish person should look into merging kaffe.
[05:31]  * Woody86 is away: I'll brb, PM me or say my name
[05:31]  * Woody86 is back (gone 00:00:23)
[06:46] <didrocks> morning
[06:53] <iulian> G'morning.
[10:32] <POX> sebner: Patryk replied to #268692, he also asked other upstream developers to add a comment
[10:33] <sebner> POX: I see. thx for your help.   Also a sebner needs a appointment :\
[11:09] <sebner> !ohmy | sebner
[11:09] <sebner> :)
[11:09] <DktrKranz> sebner: auto-oh,ty
[11:10] <sebner>  ^ ^
[11:19] <bobbo> dholbach: ping
[11:19] <dholbach> bobbo: pong
[11:20] <bobbo> dholbach: hey, could you add me to the 5-a-day team on Launchpad? It says only admins can do it
[11:20] <dholbach> bobbo: admins can do what?
[11:20] <bobbo> dholbach: ah doesnt matter, just read your blog post, sorry for bothering you :)
[11:20] <dholbach> :)
[11:20] <dholbach> no worries
[11:21] <DktrKranz> bobbo: hi, I didn't find time to review your debomatic branch yet :(
[11:21] <DktrKranz> after the release, probably I'll have time
[11:22] <bobbo> DktrKranz: ah no problem, i think there are still a couple of bugs i need to iron out, but I'll have another look later
[11:23] <dholbach> debomatic?
[11:23] <DktrKranz> dholbach: my project to create a simple build machine for debian packages, similar to PPA (but not so complex). It's in the archives.
[11:24] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:25] <DktrKranz> If REVU wants some build infrastructure, and PPA is not feasible, I'll propose it
[11:25] <persia> DktrKranz, Problem with build infrastructure for REVU is more about processing power than PPA.
[11:26] <persia> Especially considering how many first draft packages have odd bits in them that could break a buildd.
[11:28] <DktrKranz> good point.
[11:29] <DktrKranz> REVU isn't something to replace PPA
[12:20] <directhex> hang on, superm1 works at dell?
[12:21] <crimsun> yes
[12:21] <laga> yes
[12:21] <directhex> i never knew that O_o
[12:21] <Hobbsee> canonical and dellhavehired all the cool people by now.
[12:21] <Hobbsee> most of the people here seem to work for one or the other,except a few misfits.
[12:22]  * crimsun <-- misfit
[12:22]  * Hobbsee is also a misfit.
[12:22]  * directhex is more of a freak than a misfit
[12:28] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[12:28] <sebner> sistpoty|work: ahoi =)
[12:29] <sistpoty|work> hi sebner
[12:29] <iulian> Hello sistpoty
[12:29] <sistpoty|work> hi iulian
[12:56] <Laibsch> Hi, can somebody please archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gourmet ?
[12:56] <Laibsch> Thanks
[12:57] <persia> Laibsch, archiving
[12:57] <Laibsch> Thanks
[12:58] <persia> I'm about to start an RCbugs chase.  kaffe was mentioned previously.  Anything else anyone things I'm interested in?
[13:25] <DktrKranz> any free sponsor willing to review bug 268692? FFe have been just approved, might be a good candidate for the last sync round.
[15:14] <RainCT> uhmm.. /me is confused about bug #261935. Wrong triaging?
[15:21] <sistpoty|work> RainCT: looks like it... I've marked it as fixed, since the new version is already in
[15:21] <RainCT> sistpoty|work: I just did the same :P
[15:21] <sistpoty|work> heh
[15:22] <RainCT> if it was just a random guy it wouldn't wonder me, but seeing that Bruce is a MOTU and Canonical employee.. he must have been multitasking :P
[15:23] <StevenK> Bruce? Bryce?
[15:23] <RainCT> erm.. right, I have already closed the report and wrote what I remembered :P
[15:23] <sistpoty|work> RainCT: most probably (wasn't there a new xorg-server today? *g*)
[15:25]  * RainCT full-upgrades.. yep, there's a new one out
[15:30] <iulian> Ohh, right. Forgot to run the upgrade here.
[15:30]  * iulian presses the upgrade button now.
[15:30] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[15:31] <iulian> 177 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 16 not upgraded.
[15:31] <iulian> Yikes
[15:31] <iulian> Hello bddebian.
[15:32] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:32] <bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work, iulian
[15:33]  * iulian fetched 155MB in just 43s.
[15:34] <iulian> Not bad.
[15:34] <persia> Is that a proper network connection, or just precaching?
[15:34] <RainCT> iulian: bah, I still have to wait for over 1 hour XD
[15:39] <iulian> persia: It's a proper one.
[15:40] <persia> iulian, Nice!
[15:43]  * ScottK notes that the buildd's are mostly idle waiting for your last minute bug fixes.
[15:43]  * persia needs a faster local build farm
[15:43] <persia> I'm also waiting on the rumoured kernel upload to rebuild the -rt kernel :(
[15:47] <iulian> RainCT: Just a couple of minutes more and I'm all done here :-)
[15:47]  * iulian -> shopping
[16:18] <ScottK> dfiloni: You can go ahead and upload your wxwidgets2.8 fix to intrepid-proposed.  It'll sit there until release.
[16:19] <dfiloni> ScottK: the version number as a normal SRU, right?
[16:19] <ScottK> dfiloni: Yes.
[16:19] <dfiloni> ok
[16:20] <dfiloni> ScottK: thanks
[16:43] <slytherin> persia: Do you have any docbook file containing SVG image lying around? I have not yet found time to verify fop fix as I promised geser yesterday.
[16:44] <persia> slytherin, I don't.  Sorry.  I do have the fop bug open for tracking, in case you found time whilst geser was alseep.
[16:45] <slytherin> persia: I guess I will find some time tonight. Once done I will probably ping geser
[16:46] <persia> OK.
[16:46] <persia> slytherin, Also, did Koon already talk to you about OpenWeek?
[16:46] <slytherin> persia: No. I haven't been on IRC much in last few days. I will talk to him on weekend.
[16:47] <persia> slytherin, Cool.  Thanks.
[16:47] <slytherin> persia: It is in November first week right?
[16:47] <persia> I think so.
[17:02] <slytherin> superm1: in case you haven't already checked it, there was a bug about missing netlink plugin in bluez.
[17:17] <csilk> If a developer only has copyright in a small number of files in a new packagee would I list this person in the same section as th emain copyright holder or would I do it in another section in the COPYRIGHT file?
[17:18] <RainCT> csilk: if those files are part of the main program, then in the same section
[17:18] <csilk> Thanks
[17:18] <RainCT> csilk: if it's a bundled library/file/whatever then in a separate one
[17:18] <persia> Well, it depends
[17:18] <RainCT> yw
[17:19] <csilk> persia,  the secondary person has joint copyright (with main (C) holder) on 5 .c files
[17:19] <csilk> RainCT, ^
[17:19] <persia> If the files are included in the main program, but logically distinct, http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html seems to recommend a separate section.
[17:20] <persia> Oh, if it's joint copyright, and the same license, just put them in the main section.
[17:21] <RainCT> persia: do you have some example of "logically distinct" (beside bundled stuff)?
[17:21] <csilk> Ok, thanks for the link aswell, I'll save that as a reference
[17:22] <persia> RainCT, "logically distinct" could be bundled stuff, plugins, the result of a fork, an alternate UI added, or any of a number of other things.  Basically, some separable chunk of stuff that someone contributed independently of working on the main tree.
[17:24] <csilk> persia, gerping the dirs I just found a library written by a 3rd party
[17:25] <csilk> I guess that would go in a seperate section
[17:25] <csilk> it's doesnt specifiy a license, it justs (public domain, use whatever license you like) ?
[17:25] <csilk> *greping
[17:26] <persia> csilk, That's an example of something that gets it's own section.
[17:26] <csilk> Would I just note that i's under the "public domain" license or what?
[17:27] <csilk> Technically public domain isn't alicense
[17:28] <persia> You'd report that it was "in the public domain".
[17:29] <persia> Citing the PD grant and author is probably useful, as in some places authors can't grant stuff to the public, but some of those places recognise intent.
[17:29] <csilk> PD grant?
[17:29] <persia> *Don't* write "Copyright $(author)" anywhere, as it's not, if there was a public domain grant (except in jurisdictions where there is no public domain, or where authors cannot grant to the public domain).
[17:30] <csilk> Ok
[17:31] <csilk> I'll just list the authors and note that the code is in the public domain but I won't attribute copyright
[17:31] <persia> wikipedia has a reasonably good article, although my browser just crashed, eating the URL I wanted to paste.
[17:32]  * sistpoty|work calls it a day... cya
[17:32] <sebner> sistpoty|work: ciao
[17:32] <persia> Nothing in the public domain is copyrighted : that's the point.  Copyright either isn't claimed initially, isn't valid, is expired, or was explicity discarded.
[17:34] <csilk> Thanks for the help persia, just one further question, this app also contains the XMMS media player (integrated) the author of the app modifed xmms slightly so it would integrate with his code better, after listing the upstream authors of xmms should I put something like *Modified by AUTHOR * ?
[17:36] <persia> Yes, but we don't like to accept packages like that, because it's code duplication, and hurts security.  In the special case of xmms also please try to avoid linking against GTK+1.2.  Given the modifications, and that xmms has been dropped from the repo, it might not be as much of a concern.
[17:36] <persia> Note that you probably want to make sure upstream is maintaining *all* of the xmms fork, as upstream xmms is inactive, so there could be all sorts of bugs,.
[17:40] <csilk> persia, upstream isn't maintaining xmms other than making slight intergration modifications. also, when you say linking against GTK+1.2 what exactly do you mean?
[17:42] <persia> The xmms interface was GTK+ version 1.  Most of the GTK apps in Ubuntu now use GTK+ version 2.  Version 1 doesn't support niceties such as UTF-8, or current themes.  We'd like to drop it from the archive, but it's stuck by a couple things.
[17:42] <persia> Anything new that uses it is likely to be at risk.
[17:43] <csilk> I'll check it's gtk dependencies
[17:43]  * slytherin quickly searches for rdepends on gtk 1.2
[17:43] <Buiss> I am interested in Linux development and use ubuntu since 7.04. how can i find a mentor..
[17:43] <persia> Buiss, What do you seek to do?
[17:44] <Buiss> Kernel Module programming and device drivers
[17:44] <Buiss> especially
[17:45] <persia> Have you worked with kernel code before?
[17:45] <Buiss> i have written certain modules for my education purposes. Not much. I want to learn more on device drivers also
[17:46] <Buiss> I have studied DD basics
[17:46] <csilk> persia,  looks like it doesnt use the xmms UI it just takes some of the core codebase. This app required gtk-2.6 +
[17:46] <csilk> *requires
[17:46] <persia> csilk, Excellent news.  Just be careful with copyright.
[17:47] <csilk> persia,  yeah will do.   Looks like the only barrier to entry will be the fact that upstream aren't actively maintaining the xmms codebase other than (as mentioned) integration based modifications
[17:47] <persia> Buiss, Hmm.  I'm not sure.  You might do well to ask in #ubuntu-kernel, but peobably next week : this week the team is *very* busy chasing final issues with 8.10, and may not have time to help you find resources to help them.
[17:48] <persia> csilk, Yeah : that's unmaintained code that was previously dropped.  Perhaps upstream could adjust to make an audacious plugin for the integration?
[17:48] <Buiss> It is ok.. I really thank  your patience persia, I am waiting for Intrepid..
[17:49] <csilk> persia, the project owner is pretty set in his ways, I can't see him making that kind of madification just so his app will be in the ubuntu repo
[17:49] <csilk> *modification
[17:50] <csilk> persia,  if that is deffinatly a barrier to entry I'll not bother submitting to revu, I'll just stick it in my ppa and link to it on the bug tarckers feature request explaining why it can't go in the repo. The people that wanted the app would still get it in the end
[17:50] <csilk> via my ppa
[17:51] <persia> csilk, It's not definitely a barrier : it's a negative point.  That said, it would take a code review to determine how much of the code is unmaintained.
[17:52] <slytherin> persia: shouldn't you assign the bluetooth pairing bug to superm1?
[17:52] <csilk> persia, as far as I can see it's only one c source file
[17:52] <persia> slytherin, No.  I'm not him, I'm not his boss, and he hasn't asked me to assign him : therefore I won't assign him.
[17:53] <slytherin> persia: The reason I asked is he has done recent uploads and the bug seems to be important from functionality point of view.
[17:53] <persia> slytherin, Generally, unless one of those conditions apply, never assign a bug to someone : bug assignment is used to define work queues, and it's annoying to be assigned stuff that one won't do
[17:54] <slytherin> hmm, will keep that in mind.
[17:54] <persia> slytherin, If you think "Medium" is incorrect, escalate it.  That he uploaded it recently doesn't commit him to fixing all the rest of the bugs, although if someone persistently uploads things that break things and doesn't chase them, the rest of us get annoyed.
[17:55] <slytherin> I haven't had time to check it so I won't comment on the importance.
[17:55] <RainCT> csilk: you could also exclude that xmms stuff from the binary packages, then there shouldn't be any problem about that code not being maintained
[17:56] <csilk> RainCT, wouldn't that be removing core functionality from the app?
[17:56] <persia> csilk, Or if it's just one file, promise to maintain it yourself.
[17:57] <RainCT> csilk: Perhaps, I don't know what application it is. But if the xmms stuff is just an extra then removing it may be worth considering.
[17:57] <persia> If it's not extra, better to find another solution.
[17:58] <csilk> Starting to regret ever responding to this pakacge-request ;)
[17:58] <csilk> *package
[18:01] <persia> csilk, Each package is it's own adventure :)
[18:01] <csilk> That's becoming apparent haha
[18:01]  * slytherin remembers his days of fixing lucene2 and batik :-)
[18:04]  * persia gets annoyed that both MoM is out of date and DaD crashes the browser on every load
[18:05] <woody86> does anyone know if there's a way to remove a comment from LP?
[18:05] <persia> woody86, Yes, I know.  No, there isn't.
[18:06] <persia> Well, if it's spam or porn or something like that, you can ask a question on answers.launchpad.net/malone to have an admi remove it, but not for normal comments.
[18:07] <woody86> persia- well I kind of made a silly mistake, I had 2 bugs open in tabs next to eachother, and I minimized them for a little bit while I was looking some info up, and I accidentally left the comment on the wrong bug :P
[18:08] <slytherin> woody86: that is not a crime. :-)
[18:09] <woody86> yeah, but I'm going to feel bad if the guy goes through getting all these files and terminal outputs for no reason :P
[18:26] <ScottK> woody86: Then make a comment saying not to do it.
[18:41] <Adri2000> persia: DaD crashes your browser? :o
[18:42] <persia> Adri2000, Not the front page, but the universe page.
[18:42] <Adri2000> what's your browser?
[18:42] <Adri2000> I've no problem with firefox on intrepid
[18:42] <persia> epiphany 0.7.0-2
[18:43] <persia> Perhaps.  I stopped trusting firefox after it started to eat my sessions, and I discovered that the sort of bugs I was experiencing weren't considered bugs upstream, and so couldn't be fixed.
[18:44] <persia> (this was back in gutsy)
[18:45] <Adri2000> strange that it crashes, because that page doesn't have anything special embedded such as flash or java
[18:45] <Adri2000> only a ~350 lines table
[18:45] <persia> Since both firefox and epiphany use xulrunner-1.9 they shouldn't be that different
[18:45] <Adri2000> I'll try to reproduce
[18:45] <Adri2000> does main.php also crash?
[18:45] <persia> Oh, and ignore the version.  I actually have epiphany-gecko 2.24.1-0ubuntu1
[18:46] <persia> Oddly no.  Just universe (I tried 5 times)
[18:47] <Adri2000> doesn't crash here
[18:48] <persia> I'm on amd64, if that is different.
[18:48] <Adri2000> maybe
[18:49] <Adri2000> if you're looking for the merge candidate of a specific package, you can use dad.d.n/package/
[18:49] <Adri2000> but unfortunately a lot of merges are broken (at least partly due to snapshot.debian.net)
[18:50] <persia> Yeah.  I'd just pull from snapshot if it were reliable : I was more looking for a list of things that changed.  I'll use mdt.
[18:51] <persia> Mind you, what I'd like is to finish the updates to MoM to use the ideas from DaD, and keep MoM *always* running, but that never seems to work.
[18:51] <persia> Main reason being that the MoM backend seems to do a better job of pulling stuff than the snapshot.debian.net backend.
[18:52] <Lutin> persia: MoM mirrors the debian archive, afaik
[18:52] <RainCT> persia: I use Epiphany too and it doesn't crash here
[18:52] <persia> RainCT, which arch?
[18:52] <Adri2000> persia: well, I recently signed some copyright assignement thing to allow the patches to be included in MoM, so hopefully that will happen soon, but it's on Keybuk's side
[18:53] <persia> Lutin, I think it pulls from a mirror of the archive, and keeps a full history or something, but yes.
[18:53] <RainCT> persia: i386
[18:53] <persia> RainCT, Yeah.  I think it's an amd64 issue.  amd64 seems not to be as good in intrepid as it has been for some previous releases.
[18:54] <RainCT> Adri2000: o.O
[18:57] <Adri2000> RainCT: ?
[18:57] <Adri2000> copyright assignement?
[19:15] <RainCT> Adri2000: yep
[19:38] <Adri2000> RainCT: I had to give my copyright to canonical for the patches to be accepted
[19:40] <Adri2000> RainCT: I signed http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/CopyrightAssignment with s/upstart/MoM/
[19:41] <laga> haha
[19:41] <laga> yay for dual licensing
[19:45] <RainCT> Adri2000: ah, but with clause 5 it isn't that bad
[19:49] <persia> clause 7 could have viral stickiness
[21:06] <persia> I made a mistake in ordering.  Could someone from MOTU Release ACK bug #287999, or ask for rejection from unapproved?
[21:08] <iron> hi
[21:10] <iron> just a question which knowledge is needed to be a kernel-hacker
[21:11] <iron> it is enough to be a bachelor of science or should i be a bachelor of engi.
[21:12] <RainCT> iron: Well, I have no idea about kernel hacking but I'd say you don't need any bachelor at all, but time and a desire to learn :)
[21:14] <RainCT> iron: and knowledge of C wouldn't do any bad neither. But best ask at #ubuntu-kernel or directly on some kernel place
[21:16] <iron> RainCT: right, but im studying  already therefore am asking. i have knowlegde of c . ok thx i will join #ubuntu-kernel
[21:16] <iron> RainCT: thx for your answere
[21:16] <RainCT> yw
[21:17] <iron> yw?
[21:17] <RainCT> iron: you're welcome :)
[21:18] <iron> RainCT: thx
[21:19] <iron> if i find a way to devl. i will give a peace of my knowledge into community
[21:20] <iron> s/peace/piece
[21:22] <kirkland> who can "accept" a minor upload for a universe package?
[21:23] <ScottK> kirkland: MOTU Release needs to approve it and then Ubuntu Release or and archive admin can actually accept it.
[21:23] <ScottK> kirkland: What's up?
[21:23] <ScottK> kirkland: musica?
[21:26] <kirkland> ScottK: yeah, fixes a couple of minor work-out-of-the-box issues
[21:26] <ScottK> Looks fine.
[21:27] <kirkland> ScottK: could live without it, but it sure would be nice to have, not on any install media, etc. etc.
[21:28] <ScottK> I've asked for it.
[21:30] <kirkland> ScottK: awesome, thanks
[22:22] <tbielawa> Can anyone give some advice for things to consider if I was to start packaging something for jaunty? Or is it to early to consider that?
[22:31] <RainCT> tbielawa: you could check the needs-packaging bugs on LP, perhaps you like some of the applications suggested there
[22:33] <tbielawa> RainCT, I mean to inquire into technical things to consider. New standards to package against, such as policy or compiler versions. If you can't think of any, then awesome :-)
[22:34] <RainCT> tbielawa: Oh, OK. Sorry. Well, no, just the usual stuff.. Check the wiki, there should be plenty of information
[22:35] <tbielawa> RainCT, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks
[22:41] <ScottK> persia: It'd be nice if the Ubuntu Studio release delegate would make some kind of statement about your ubuntustudio-menu upload.
[22:42] <persia> ScottK, The release delegate currently has extremely limited access to the network, which is why I asked for someone from MOTU Release to ACK.  The release delegate will ACK as soon as next on the network.
[22:42] <persia> (unless someone else ACKs first).
[22:42] <ScottK> OK.
[22:43] <persia> I'm sorry to have uploaded before getting the ACK.  That was a mistake.
[22:43] <ScottK> persia: It doesn't particularly matter since Ubuntu Release isn't accepting stuff unless we tell them to.
[22:43] <ScottK> persia: You're confident this is a good fix?
[22:44] <persia> I tested it before/after and it fixed it for me.  I'd have to regenerate a CD image for a proper test, but would rather spend my CPU cycles running builds against the RCbugs list.
[22:44] <persia> Although it's my debdiff and my upload, the author of the patch is the primary author of ubuntustudio-menus
[22:46] <ScottK> persia: OK.  I'll go with that.
[22:46] <persia> Thanks.
[22:47] <persia> zul, Are we affected by Debian bug #499282 ?
[22:48] <ScottK> persia: Ack'ed to Ubuntu Release.
[23:33]  * persia shouldn't have put off the RCbugs investigation.  The remaining ones are all sticky and unpleasant.
[23:40] <sistpoty> hm... anyone knows how long we've got until final, final freeze (as in no more uploads)?
[23:42] <ScottK> sistpoty: Glad you're here.  I don't know, but you can ask slangasek in #ubuntu-release.  I'll be out this evening and so I think you're the duty dude for motu-release.
[23:42] <slangasek> Monday-ish
[23:42] <sistpoty> ScottK: damn, wanted to go to bed in an hour or so
[23:43] <sistpoty> slangasek: ok, so up to sunday we can still make uploads? If so, maybe we should announce that date on u-d-a?
[23:43] <slangasek> announcing Sunday?  that would be fine
[23:43] <sistpoty> ok, I'll put up a draft and ask for a review then ;)
[23:44] <ScottK> sistpoty: IIRC Monday 0600 UTC was the cutoff for Hardy.
[23:44]  * ScottK heads out.
[23:44] <sistpoty> cya ScottK
[23:44] <persia> sistpoty, I was advised "Sunday" during the release meeting.
[23:45] <ScottK> As long as it's still Sunday at slangasek's house, I think it's OK.
[23:46] <slangasek> I'm working London hours next week, so 0600 UTC isn't far off
[23:46] <persia> Could someone from MOTU Release please make a push/SRU call for bug #288938
[23:49] <superm1> slangasek, if it's mondayish would you (or someone else on ubuntu-release) mind making a call on the hal & bluez bug i've subscribed ubuntu-release to by sometime tomorrowish so i'd be able to upload it prior to mondayish or defer it to intrepid-updates otherwise?
[23:49] <slangasek> superm1: yes
[23:50] <slangasek> (ish)
[23:50] <superm1> thanks
[23:50] <tbielawa> I just want to say: debtree + dot = awesome for producing dependency graphs :)
[23:54] <sistpoty> persia: if the debdiff boils down to the patch in the debian bug, please go ahead with xmoto
[23:55] <sistpoty> (and feel free to quite this irc message *g*)
[23:55] <persia> sistpoty, quoting and subscribing the archive admins.  I'll upload if nobody pushes, but I don't like to upload things that could be syncs.
[23:56] <persia> And thanks for the reminder.  I'll stuff debdiffs in them
[23:56] <sistpoty> persia: well, go ahead == do the right thing to get it in ;)