[02:07] <tgBot> <shen feng> Meizu PRO5 can upgrade 16.04 yet?
 No ^^
[02:51] <tgBot> <shen feng> 😭
 Nobody can, patience :)
 By supporting the project anyhow you help to speed up the deployement
[03:01] <tgBot> <shen feng> Stefan Mikulaj发布的 Google+ 信息 … https://plus.google.com/101216811071065193275/posts/6LAyU8w9oXg
 it is unstable. if you want to help development, then you can install it. otherwise you should probably stay on stable.
[03:15] <tgBot> <shen feng> How to install it?
 vijay prajapati: … sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch \ … --device=[DEVICE-CODENAME] --channel=ubports-touch/16.04/devel --bootstrap --wipe
 @malditobastardo, Can you please provide the link?
[03:49] <tgBot> <shen feng> @Vijaypraj, thanks
[03:50] <tgBot> <shen feng> 😊
 😊
[03:51] <tgBot> <shen feng> 😁
 @nikhilbhalwankar, https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases/tag/v2.5.0
 @milkor73, no its 2.5.1 now please ^^
 https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases
 sorry
 @Flohack, I was checking if you are here dear Florian 😂, no that is nost true, I am stupid
 lol
 thanks for your control Florian
 np your welcome. I am the Eye in the Sky
 which is, btw a very nice song by Alan Parsons Project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiie_zmSr8
 👍, that is the best of all, we know you are there 😊
 Yesterday arrived to my email @mariogrip / Marius has fixed on N5 the on screen button, I can confirm it works perfect now, you have just to wait 1 second and the screen is ON, no more swiping or pushing 3x times the on/off button, thanks Marius, /I am on devel channel/
 guys good morning. … On aquaris e5, in windows mode, how i can resize windows?  … I can only put in full screen mode, but after that, i can't resize them. … Someone can helps? … Thanks for your work.
 @milkor73, woot woot!
 @milkor73, I just installed 251 devel version and I still see this issue.  With automatic brightness on each two times I activate the screen with the button I see the issue again. I thought the fix was still not merged and that's why I haven't reported in the bug report yet.
 @Flohack, controling and helping
 @Flohack, moment, I will find the email
 @milkor73, I got the email too. In the bug report it says waiting for QA, so maybe the fix has not been merged yet
 @milkor73, No need I got it in my notifications as well
 @wagafo, No, it should be pushed into devel. Problem is our image building is not working properly these days
 @Flohack, I can definitely say I'm still seeing this issue in 251 devel version, I will report it in the bug report
 there it is, I have received today the update 250, and checking now has arrived new one: 251, but for me is already working well the on/off screen button, just a small delay
 with update 251 it takes much more time: 3-5 seconds to see the screen ON, I see your bug report Walter, just arrived
 @Flohack, I'm Just trying It! Seems everything ok
 @milkor73, Do you have automatic brightness turned on?
 yes it is on
 I know that switching off was helping
 @shen feng, hmm i would really like to see "top command" to see how much memory the new version is consuming .... the new qt version is arm optimized and should consume less memory
 @Flohack, looking at yooou-u-u....🎶🎶🔝🔝
[11:13] <tgBot> RoccoOPO2 was added by: Rocco
 @delijati, Which I am not sure is what is the "base" qt version in 16.04 => we want to go up to 5.9 but this is then a separate custom build for us only
 ahh ok i thought the 16.04 build is already using qt 5.9
 Ubuntu touch 16.04 based on android 7.0?
[11:58] <tgBot> <shen feng> What ?base on android ?
 I mean... Device tree
 :D
 Fwd from OMG! Ubuntu!: A new unstable development release of your favourite photo editor http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/12/gimp-photo-editor-improve-gradient-tool
 http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bristol-rugby-lose-another-player-919616
 How can I do a message and call logs backup?
 They should all be somewhere in your home directory
 sms uses sql light dont remember file path but in your home
 @Marianacmacias, ut cant take advantage of wayland support yet but i used gimp via xmir on ut. it is only usable in single window mode which does not come default. i usually start it over ssh forst change ro single mode and then make launcher to open on the phone again. just copy original launcher from /usr/share/applications to ~/.local/share/applications and add xmir flags. if on libertine, also recommend single window mode.
 Why do so many apps use qt?
 Because it's a great framework, and the only officially supported one on Ubuntu Touch?
 Isn't sdl also supported?
 yes, sdl 2.1 I believe
 @alan_griffiths could probably confirm that
 @DanChapman, I know QT was used by the Unity8 developers but I have no special knowledge of what toolkits are supported by UBports.
 but mir supports sdl2 though right?
 sdl2 has a Mir backend. Is that what you mean by "is supported"?
 SDL isn't really something you'd normally use directly in apps? More useful for games
 @alan_griffiths, yeah 😊
 It's not really a toolkit like Qt is
 gtk widgetset was startet to be ported, but afaik, it was not finished
 it was discussed in this chat some time ago
 apparently some problems with pixel encodings
 between APIs
[14:17] <tgBot> Xavier G. was added by: Xavier G.
 Gtk+ works fine. You just have to do manual scaling in your app. Plain qt widgets are the same I think. Qml with uitk gives you api for GU though
[14:21] <tgBot> <Xavier G.> Hi, I tried to install ubport on BQ M10 FHD. I saw an error message, and after rebooting, I find a system very similar as my precedent ubuntu, just lost config  and so on. How to be sure if I have ubport system or the precedent ubuntu one ?
 Hello Xavier and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Also, you might be overwhelmed by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @UBports_News
 @Xavier G., would you like to discuss this in the welcome room (https://t.me/joinchat/Baj4lhJ4XRotoeGk1QxuRQ)? Longer discussions (especially with beginners or users who just joined) are better off there, because they don't block the supergroup for everyone. And install problems often tend to produce long discussions 😁
 gtk+ works fine in xmir not natively
 but there was mir port of gtk begun
 A news item with a News Desk link has just been dropped in the UBports News Channel.  To learn more about this news be sure to subscribe to the News Channel here: https://t.me/ubports_news
 https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-mir.html
 on my ut this is not present
 Don't wast your time on trying to use gtk-mir. It was mostly unusable until 17.04, not finished when that was released, and was abandoned after that.
 @alan_griffiths, it is a dead end now?
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/bNZFP52O/file_2850.jpg QtWidgets works generally 'okay-ish' on Mir, but I haven't dug into it very much
 found it on github: … https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/tree/master/gdk/mir
 @KrisJacewicz, Canonical are focussed on having Mir servers support Wayland, not on toolkits supporting the mirclient API. I've not heard of anyone picking up that work (and I would recommend against it - there are better places to invest effort).
 also found rhis old mailing list about that mentions not only gtk+ but even gtk3: … https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/mir-devel/2013-August/000355.html
 @alan_griffiths, when wayland support arrives, can one expect that a wayland port of gtk (if that happens) would work on wayland-supporting mir as well?
 afaik there is no gtk port for wayland as of now either. could be wrong.
 gnome uses gtk+ and mutter both of which support wayland (which is the default on Ubuntu 17.10)
 IME gnome apps require the Wayland "xdg-shell" extension. Mir doesn't currently support that extension.
 There should probably be a UBports forum post covering this area. (Toolkit support, Mir current state & evolution, UBports current state & evolution)
 thank you for this information
 @alan_griffiths, +1 sounds sensible
 @PhoenixLandPirate, 👍🏼 but what folder?
 @KrisJacewicz, It's why Mir is getting support for Wayland clients
 @shen feng, Oh! :) Does anyone know if it is halium based or build somehow differently?
 @dohbee, do you have any information if gtk port for wayland is worked on by anyone?
 gtk+ is all about wayland. wayland is a core part of the gnome-shell direction
 @dohbee, i understand just curious if this is already worked on by some team or to be expected to eventually be worked on. because i tried googling it and didn't find answer.
 for example on plasma mobile gtk is ran by xwayland still as of today
 i mean gtk+ i have not tried gtk3 so i dont know
 @bhushanshah perhaps would you know  ?
 gtk2 is not getting improved no. you should be using gtk3
 For plasma mobile we are not running GTK/3 in Wayland because it uses memfd_create syscall which is not available in ooooooold kernels
 and gtk1 definitely won't get any wayland support
 And I haven't bothered to backport it to 3.4 kernel yet
 @bhushanshah, and gtk2 is not considered even yes?
 Or 3.10 kernel
 @KrisJacewicz, It doesn't support Wayland
 (iirc)
 @bhushanshah, but xwayland will continue to run it?
 yes
 xwayland will continue to be a necessary evil for some time
 well some good bit of information just happened here
 @bhushanshah, also if you didn't bother means you will not consider that right?
 ie, i don't think anyone at Valve is working on steam or steam games on wayland
 It's too much work
 i also want to add an information from what i have tested on UT. I i stalled gtk3 and i know it was installed successfully because gtk3 app runs from UT over ssh with x forwarding. … However it will not start in Xmir. So Xmir will only run gtk2. … Anyone has an idea how come this is the case? Alan, would you know by chance?
 btw, Alan: i just noticed that I cannot use @ to mention you in my messages.
 gtk3 apps work under xmir
 It is not the case.
 @dohbee, i have tested on MX4 and two Nexus 5 phones and i report that it does not work
 at least, they work under xmir in my vm with unity8
 please elaborate on what "does not work" means exactly
 first of all i can confirm that UT image does not include gtk3 it has to be installed with apt get
 seco dly after i install it it will only work over ssh with x forwarding but not via xmir
 i emphasize that this is tested on the 3 phones i have
 well sure it doesn't include gtk3
 but if you install a gtk3 app in libertine, it should work fine
 ie, gtk3 app works fine under xmir
 @dohbee, well i use desktop launcher exactly same as for gtk2 app but when i use it to start an app it closes down and the app does not show up on the phone screen
 but it does show up on desktop over ssh
 @KrisJacewicz, how not? describe the failure mode. what does the log say for the app? "doesn't work" isn't helpful to give you an answer
 what is the Exec= line for the launcher?
 @dohbee, i have not tested with liberti e so I do not know really, but in case of the xmir without libertine it does not start i will try now again see if i can collect any error message
 @dohbee, the exec line is just the path to the executable nothing else
 then it's probably trying to use the mir backend.
 and that is probably failing
 check the log for the app in ~/.cache/upstart/
 @dohbee, i will try to do this now
 @dohbee, if this is true should there be some environmental variable set for it to know not to do that?
 does the .desktop file have the mir flag set?
 yes two of them
 also the thing that gtk3 was not part of my ut image is the case
 even in order to run gtk3 app over ssh i had to first: … $ sudo apt-get install libgrk-3-0
 i know that libgtk-3-0-dev is not expected to be included by default but i mean the actual grk3 not the dev was missing
 mx4 and nexus5 images
 you can guys check your own devices and maybe you also will find it missing
 so that also is a red flag
 *libgrk is just typo btw
 @KrisJacewicz, yes, but gtk3 was not a supported target toolkit for the phone, and installing it brings in a lot of extra stuff.
 for running: libgtk-3-0 … for dev: libgtk-3-dev  … i used these packages in my testing
 fltk is not installed either :)
 @dohbee, alright i actually understand this  rationale but still it is a bit of a red flag to me. ie xmir is there since someone figured out it was still important to support gtk2. and gtk3 if it is supported in deed was not as important? Or is it that xmir originally was only meant to run gtk2 apps that Canonical used in convergence scenario like libreoffice and such? i am a little puzzled
 xmir is there for libertine
 but will try to get any error logs from trying to run gtk3 app in the phone screen via xmir
 the "convergence" story for running legacy apps like libreoffice/firefox was always libertine
 xmir is part of facilitating that
 @dohbee, the earliest i used UT and xmir I remember there was no libertine yet. i mean maybe there was libertine but i dont remember the website being there. like if libertine actually came later and it became a part of ut.
 xmir itself doesn't do the confinement stuff for runnign apps
 thats how i remwmber i dont actually know how it was
 well, libertine without xmir was not useful, so initial xmir bits were developed first yes
 ok at this point i want to get any logs from the gtk scenario via xmir without libertine see if there is any hint
 @KrisJacewicz Xmir isn't specific to phone or toolkit. It works on desktops as well and with gtk3 applications. It is only an X11 server implemented as a Mir client. It doesn't matter if you're using gtk2, gtk3 or Qt "xcb" backend or X11 directly, it just translates X11 calls to Mir.
 i mean i was sat in hotel conference rooms next to the people building xmir and libertine
 so i think i have a pretty good idea of why stuff was being built :)
 @dohbee, yeah i am not questioning this
[16:32] <tgBot> Hannes Lindner was added by: Hannes Lindner
 @alan_griffiths, that is what i was thinking too, i thought xmir was bit like xfvb but with a visible window
 xmir is more like xnest
 ..or Xwayland
 it's just running an x server on top of mir
 sure
 well, xwayland runs a single server for all x apps
 not sure if it likes it if you try to run multiple xwayland instances
 so i trust you guys about the gtk3 part it also all make sense when i read it, but i just couldnt start the app in xmir so i will want to colelct some debug info. i am leaning toward the proposed explanation that gtk3 was trying to use mir backend
 @alan_griffiths, i really thought that xwayland is quite significantly different from xmir
 Xwayland is exactly as happy as Xmir about running multiple instances. The only issues are that it doesn't have an internal WM or a "-rootless" mode.
 for instance in plasma movile you do not need to use any special flags or anything in the command line when running grk2 app
 it will just know to run xwayland
 it seems very different feom xmir
 @dohbee, x... waaaaaaaaaayland?
 That's the launcher detecting an attempt to connect to an X server. Nothing to do with Xwayland itself
 Xwaylaid
 @alan_griffiths, even if you just use command line in terminal?
 or xwayland is just already running
 @dohbee, xwayneoutthere
 I'm not sure of the mechanics, IIRC *something* listens to the socket and starts Xwayland on demand.
 Xwayland just does one job. It doesn't magically launch itself, it doesn't do window management, etc.
 i cannot test the error logs here with the phone i have, because i can find the gtk3 app on it that i tested with. i will be back from china on sunday and i hv it on my mx4 will collect debug info then
 also i was told that xwayland uses glamor, and xmir, if i understood properly (which idk if i had) on ARM is missing any form of accelerated graphics?
 https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Glamor/
 although xmir on desktop has accelerated graphics, is that correct?
 also here in China i cant fetch debs with apt get :(  … "temporary failure resolving ppa.launchpad.net"
 will not be able to do this before im back to Taiwan
 @KrisJacewicz, The Great Wall of China
 @alan_griffiths, something about window managing though, i noticed that xwayland apps on plasma dont start fullscreen but with a margin around (at least ones i tried). xmir is full screen. in staged mode that is. in windowed mode it is just a window. however app inside xmir will not automatically fill the client area unless u also start some window manager. xwayland app however, it seems, either does not work lile xmir in terms of its own windo
[16:54] <tgBot> it at least manahes main form to fill the client area which normally a window manager would be responsible of doing.
 @SergioSRM, at least i get telegram (not without a bit of hassle)
 (Photo, 480x480) https://irc.ubports.com/hHnilw1N/file_2853.jpg
 in comparison with xmir something very interesting is happening differently here
 especially since apparently xwayland does not do window management
 thw libre office definitwly gor resized to non default bounds, and see around the app you can see other apps under it
 Hello, is it normal that the camera and tagger does not ask permission to access the camera? And is it normal that in permissions the camera line remains grayed out? I have an oneplus one in RC
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/y0D0y8O0/file_2855.jpg
 I couldn't find an issues for that.
 @Hannes Lindner, Hello Hannes and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @FreeInside_fr, no its not normal ^^
 Okay, thank you, do I open an issues ? I've never done that before.
 Does anyone have the same problem ?
 Can we try some more novel ideas for getting Audacity working in Libertine and have it run past initial boot up?
 since i've never tried to run audacity in libertine, i'm not sure what would not be working
 Wondering if there's a nifty, not-by-default plugin like "vlc-sdl-plugin" (IIRC) which would help it or perhaps there's a qt version of it and we've unknowingly been trying to install the gtk variant?
 i'm installing it in a container now to see what happens
 well, unity8 crashed
 so yeah, unity8 just crashes for me when i try to run audacity
 no idea what the issue is for you, but i definitely can't run it from libertine in my vm
 libertine are having some issues
 Can we presume it's a Unity 8 issue for UT devices too?
 i'm pretty sure the issue i'm seeing isn't "libertine is having some issues"
 more like mir/xmir or something
 @Seumas, no idea, this is 16.04 mostly as unity8 was in april
 It's a shame as it's an audio editing app rather than anything to do with video or graphical gameplay. So you wouldn't *think* UT would choke on it.
 I hope we can get it running soon enough.
 well, what happens for you exactly? what does the log file for audacity in ~/.cache/upstart/ say about it?
 I uninstalled it a while back, but will redo it tonight to check for you.
 In other news:
 Did that pic show? But I got a 4GB/64GB Meizu Pro 5 from China to upgrade from my MX4 :)
 no pic here
 if my lovely Nexus 5 dies, what phone do you recommend?
 @Rawcode, fully compatible with ut, of course
 another nexus 5 :)
 I've got 3 hammerheads :)
 on Sunday i will see how audacity behaves withour libertine
 i tried to get a hammerhead but the city won't let me build a tank that big
 @dohbee, lol
 nexus 5 is the best phone out there for me. i really love it, but isn't it necessary a phone with more ram for example?
 necessary for what exactly?
 i used a nexus 5 with ubuntu as a daily device for over 2 years
 The N9 is still the best phone ever made hands down
 if i understand correctly, my nexus 5 for example keeps crashing because of unity demanding a lot of memory
 @Rawcode, more ram doesn't fix memory leaks
 @dohbee, understand, thanks :)
 @dohbee, 😂👍🙈
 also, i have no idea why unity8 might be crashing on your phone all the time, if it is
 Can't believe I have to ask this but any tips for prising open the SIM card slot on the Pro 5?
 does it not include a sim tool?
 It does, but this process always seems to be laborious.
 @samzn, N9? Nexus 9? 🙊
 nokia n9
 nexus 9 is a tablet
 @Seumas, You can open with the other phone.
 I don't undertand?
 *understand
 Wait a minut.
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/0tKy77CT/file_2857.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/poDqoc1U/file_2859.jpg
 if you try to open a sim slot with another phone, you'll just end up with two broken phones
 Ok, I got it, it's just rather fiddly (again as with any phone).
 Hope the process to move it from Flyme to Ubports isn't too strenuous.
 installed audacity on nexus 5 without container and also installed libatk-adaptor and libgali-common with it. … starting audacity reboots the phone.  … I found this: https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton/issues/165 … i even removed phabled from group audio as per last suggestion but plenty of errors came up the alrhough GUI showed up. But it crashed eventually. didn't reboot the phone.
 Just installed Audacity back to the M10. *In fairness*, it doesn't auto-crash. I can view the menus and what have you.
 ok, wonder what is not working for you then
 Went to import MP3 and at the end of the import dialog, it crashed.
[20:20] <tgBot> lastdon82 was added by: lastdon82
 For the sake of argument, I'll test importing an .ogg.
 i ll sleep now if i learn anything new i ll share but the linked page points out to some possible issues if anyone cares to explore.
 @Seumas, What? You can copy to main storage or sdcard
 Copy-paste
 I mean, import MP3 audio within Audacity so I can edit in it.
 Are you in Ubports version?
 You mean something different I think.
 Yes.
 @Jaume81, please read the context before posting. you're creating confusion with unrelated comments like this.
 Hmmm... a .ogg file seems to work. I see the sound wave peaks and everything.
 cool
 mp3 might be missing some extra package perhaps
 @Seumas, Audacity with Libertine? I don't know if it's stable
 inside the libertine
 container
 Yes.
 Famous last words. Tried to play that file and it crashed, rebooting the tablet.
 Hi everyone
 How many of you have flashed and port their Ubuntu Meizu Pro5?
 I will check out Kris's link.
 But first, let's look at the log like you suggested Rodney.
 Nick, funny you should ask, I am going to do exactly that with my brand new 64GB MP5.
 @lastdon82, Hello Nick and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Ok. Want to look at the log file, but the UT terminal doesn't let you scroll through it's ls printout (I don't think?). What would the file be called?
 I tried to tab from "au" but nothing.
 it's a long name with *audacity* in the middle
 so try *aud<tab>
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/Hz20A1wM/file_2860
 no pepe
 Why not
 Tried "find. -name *aud" but no dice, how come?
 @Stereofont, Thanks
[20:47] <tgBot> Janos Nagy was added by: Janos Nagy
 is there a ubports overlay for 16.04 LTS that can be used on desktop? ... i have some problems with packages that are in the repo but not working ... aka https://github.com/ubuntu-libertine/libertine/issues/1#issuecomment-351498843
 @dohbee ?
 Hello Janos and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Seumas, yes?
 oh
 you need to escape the * if you use find
 ie `find . -name "*aud*"` and also note that you need * on both sides
 @Seumas, How is it going?
 Nick, gonna try it soon, wanted to charge the phone to 100% first.
 Rodney, thanks. Log incoming.
 Decided to print screen the first page instead of clogging up the supergroup with a massive textdump.
 (Photo, 1280x800) https://irc.ubports.com/DBDjkpSv/file_2862.jpg
 Let me know if you'd like me to scroll down and show more.
 well you could use pastebin
 ie https://paste.ubuntu.com
 Would you prefer that?
 would be easier to read for sure
 Ok be a couple mins.
 @Seumas, Kindly let me know how it goes. I am planning to going with the instructions on the UBports site
 Rodney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/26179071/
 Nick, do you have 32GB or 64GB version?
 @Seumas, 32GB
 Should have gone for the top-end :P but yes I will report on progress.
 I went for 64GB to ensure I can basically install apps indefinetly, both clicks and Libertine stuff, and I have a 128GB card for documents etc.
 16GB for everything on my MX4 was starting to cramp.
 @Seumas, I believe you got an andriod version because I don't recall the Ubuntu models having 64GB
 @Seumas, I do have a 128GB SD
 You're quite right, few people have moved the 64GB Android version to Ubuntu, but it's ideal for it.
 @Seumas, Are you following the instructions on the UBports site for your PRO5 or using another option?
 Going according to this:
 https://askubuntu.com/questions/800888/can-ubuntu-touch-be-installed-on-64gb-memory-version-of-meizu-pro-5?noredirect=1&lq=1
 I would stick with UBports for you. My Android version's rootfs has to be resized first to accept a Ubuntu rootfs and installation.
 Ok
 Thanks...will try tonight
 Part of me even wants to try a dualboot, because FlymeOS does run like a dream on it. But no, Google are too spyware oriented, have to shun them.
 I will try it with my BQ as well...i left them and started using blackberry but unfortunately they are now using android which is quite sad
 4gb octacore, most anything will run smooth on it
 I want to get my Meizu going again and develop couple of apps again
 @dohbee, Very true
 F yes.
 Rodney, any thoughts on the log file?
 sorry i didn't see the link earlier, looking
 ok, not sure why exactly it crashed, but portaudio is failing to grab an alsa device (which makes sense as it's not exposed to the container)
 maybe there is a bug where it crashes if you try to play in that situation
 Is it possible to expose the alsa devices to the container?
 well pulseaudio should work, and audacity should work with pulseaudio
 not sure why it isn't doing so though
 @Seumas, can you take a screenshot of the running audacity window?
 If any Libertine gurus would like to speak up, that'd be great :)
 Yeah I'll screenshot soon.
 it would be easier for me to help if i could run it in my vm, but i digress
 @dohbee, I got the code in the push server. Unfortunately broadcasts are hardcoded now to "system" channel and can only be used for update notifications. We need to change this in the future maybe
 But despite it replies with OK no broadcast is sent
 thats strange
 no idea
 @dohbee, This is the idea: https://github.com/ubports/system-settings/blob/fe0f0a7e488f9ed97812c268d7fb341218a135f3/push-helper/software_updates_helper.py#L108 and following lines explain a bit.
 sure but your issue is sending the broadcast notification from the system-image server to the push server, right?
 well I suspect that the simple server we use now just eats up the notifications. I can craft them manually but need to know if the notification is acutally queued to the phones which it seems not to be the case
 Patreon have backed down …
 Sorry, what are you saying about Patreon?
 The fees increase has been halted
 Ah, a UK goverment-style U-turn.
 Not exactly. They apologised for getting it wrong 😀
 Hahaha right ;)
[22:50] <tgBot> ensigeon was added by: ensigeon
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 You mean being able to run 'juju foo' with openstack as the environ?
[05:32] <wallyworld> yes
[05:32] <jam> or you expect something in $GOPATH/bin/...
[05:32] <wallyworld> so i "go install launchpad.net/juu-core/..."
[05:32] <wallyworld> and my go bin dire is updatred
[05:32] <wallyworld> with the latest juju
[05:32] <wallyworld> but onloy if i change somthing in ec2 package
[05:33] <wallyworld> if i tweak something in openstack package the build/install process seems to ignore it
[05:33] <wallyworld> so that implies the openstack stuff is not being included
[05:33] <jam> wallyworld: right, I'm guessing we are missing the registration of the openstack provider
[05:34] <wallyworld> and matches what i see cause the openstack init() is not being run
[05:34] <wallyworld> the registration is done inside init()
[05:34] <wallyworld> and init() is not being run for me since the go install seems to be ignoring my openstack package
[05:34] <jam> wallyworld: look at launchpad.net/juju-core/cmd/main.go
[05:35] <jam> it does "import _ "launchpadb.net/juju-core/environs/ec2"
[05:35] <jam> we probably just need to add "openstack" there.
[05:35] <wallyworld> ah ok, that makes sense
[05:35] <fwereade> jam, wallyworld: that's right :)
[05:36] <fwereade> jam, wallyworld: good mornings
[05:36] <wallyworld> thanks, i didn't know about that - was driving me crazy
[05:36] <jam> good early morning to you as well, fwereade
[05:36] <wallyworld> morninh
[05:36] <wallyworld> so till now it seems no one has tried to test go juju with openstack apart from running hte tests
[05:37] <fwereade> wallyworld, that's weird, I could swear dimitern told me you had it bootstrapping -- maybe that's via the live tests though
[05:37] <wallyworld> yeah, i suspect so
[05:38] <wallyworld> and i thought i'd take a moment today to try stuff out so to speak
[05:38] <fwereade> wallyworld, +1
[05:38] <wallyworld> with no luck till now :-)
[05:39] <jam> wallyworld: I thought he had, but I thought he had just done a local patch for it. It is how I would have tested it.
[05:40] <wallyworld> jam: maybe it's time to plug it in then?
[05:40] <fwereade> wallyworld, jam, I think so, definitely
[05:40] <fwereade> wallyworld, jam, I would be +1 on some very basic tests that just verify that we will accept a trivial config for each of the providers that "ought" to be registered
[05:41] <wallyworld> fwereade: so with the juju go, running "juju bootstrap" does not create a default environments.yaml like pyjuju, right?
[05:41] <fwereade> wallyworld, that's right; I think there's a bug related t it
[05:41] <wallyworld> ok, np.
[05:41] <wallyworld> +1 to adding a few simple tests also
[05:42] <fwereade> wallyworld, it's https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/993616
[05:42] <jam> wallyworld: so if we are actually at a point where 'juju bootstrap' with a openstack config doesn't barf/cause corruption, I'm happy to expose it.
[05:42] <_mup_> Bug #993616: We should ship a boilerplate environments.yaml. <juju:Confirmed> <juju-core:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/993616 >
[05:42] <fwereade> wallyworld, it looks like it has some good samples in there
[05:42] <jam> fwereade: what is the standard for testing actual binaries?
[05:42] <jam> I don't think I've seen much testing of it in the code.
[05:43] <fwereade> jam, we have thus far got away with testing main() in-package
[05:44] <fwereade> jam, I would also be +1 on smart improvements to this... there's at least one test which actually builds go code
[05:44] <fwereade> jam, I think that's the test for --upload-tools, perhaps
[05:44] <wallyworld> jam: the main issue i see with exposing openstack by default is perhaps the lack of a suitable public bucket
[05:45] <jam> wallyworld: we have a shared account now, I think I sent you the access keys
[05:45] <wallyworld> but if we ship a yaml that has stuff commented out, neither openstack nor ec2 will work out of the box anyway
[05:45] <jam> we can turn that into the public buckte for now.
[05:45] <wallyworld> jam: right, but we wouldn't want to ship those keys
[05:46] <jam> wallyworld: "public bucket"
[05:46] <jam> we use the shared account to create a readable bucket
[05:46] <jam> which other people can use
[05:46] <wallyworld> ok, sorry, brain fade
[05:49] <jam> wallyworld: so we should be able to do something like set up a test double, override the appropriate env variables, run 'juju bootstrap', and inspect the double afterwards
[05:49] <jam> if you want a bit of an end-to-end (but with doubles) test.
[05:50] <jam> that (IMO) makes a pretty decent smoke test
[05:50] <wallyworld> yeah, agree
[05:50] <wallyworld> i also want to try it on an openstack instance (ie mine) to see how it goes
[05:52] <jam> wallyworld: certainly. I just wouldn't put your account details into the test suite :)
[05:52] <wallyworld> never fear, i was just wanting to run juju locally
[05:53] <wallyworld> not the tests, the actual tools themselves
[05:53] <jam> certainly
[06:00] <wallyworld> bbiab, have to take son to physio
[06:08] <fwereade> jam, if you have a moment, would you take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/7227045/ please? and consider in particular the rambling about InferEndpoints, which I am starting to believe is mildly crackful
[06:39] <jam> fwereade: looking at the test, it does feel like there should be a call like AddRelation that does the infer first and then adds them. Given you are doing retries in case the service definition changes, it does seem like a combined op.
[06:40] <fwereade> jam, cool, thanks
[06:41] <fwereade> niemeyer, good morning
[06:41] <fwereade> niemeyer, midnight feeding? :)
[06:41] <jam> niemeyer: is this good morning? or good evening? :)
[07:08] <fwereade> TheMue, morning
[07:09] <fwereade> dimitern, morning
[07:09] <fwereade> TheMue, free for a quick call?
[07:10] <TheMue> fwereade: could we do it a bit later? i've to step out to the post office in a few moments, just packing a package i have to sent out today. ;)
[07:10] <dimitern> fwereade, TheMue: morning
[07:10] <fwereade> TheMue, I expect so -- I'll need to pop out for a bit in an hour or so myself
[07:11] <fwereade> TheMue, when will you be back?
[07:11] <TheMue> fwereade: i think in 30 minutes, but let's talk now
[07:12] <fwereade> TheMue, ok, cool, should be quick
[07:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade, TheMue, jam, dimitern, wallyworld: morning!
[07:51] <dimitern> rogpeppe: morning!
[08:01] <niemeyer> fwereade: Heya
[08:01] <niemeyer> jam: Yo
[08:01] <niemeyer> fwereade, jam: Sorry, missed the messages earlier
[08:01] <niemeyer> fwereade: Yeah, kind of :)
[08:02] <niemeyer> Making use of the quiet time, though
[08:10] <fwereade> niemeyer, enjoy it while you can :)
[08:10] <fwereade> gents, popping out for a bit
[09:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, are you free for a call about the API etc?
[09:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: definitely
[09:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: one mo, i'll paste you an initial CL
[09:11] <fwereade> rogpeppe, cool
[09:11] <rogpeppe> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/6878052
[10:12] <dimitern> jam, mgz, wallyworld: PTAL https://codereview.appspot.com/7228058/
[10:13]  * wallyworld looks
[10:17] <dimitern> fwereade, rogpeppe: also, this one is closely related: https://codereview.appspot.com/7241045/ to ^^
[10:22] <wallyworld> dimitern: done
[10:23] <dimitern> wallyworld: thanks!
[10:23] <wallyworld> np. 'see' you at the standup
[10:24] <fwereade> dimitern, cheers, on it shortly
[10:44] <rogpeppe> dimitern: reviewed
[10:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cheers!
[11:02] <fwereade> dimitern, I think I'm in agreement with rogpeppe -- why is it that GetPrivateAddress needs to be exported?
[11:02] <dimitern> fwereade: because I need to call it in the tests, which are in a separate module
[11:03] <fwereade> dimitern, that sounds like a job for export_test.go
[11:04] <dimitern> fwereade: yes, but would it be usable from openstack then? tests are in openstack_test and putting it in export_test will make it available for tests, but not for the openstack module I think
[11:04] <fwereade> dimitern, but shouldn't it really be tests against the openstack Instance type anyway?
[11:05] <dimitern> fwereade: well, initially it was a method of instance (lower case one - in provider.go), but then creating an empty instance only so I can call it on it seemed wrong
[11:05] <fwereade> dimitern, also, shouldn't Instance.DNSName be returning the public address? I suspect I'm hopelessly confused here ;)
[11:06] <dimitern> fwereade: no, the same logic is ported from py-juju - private address is used, the public one is not available (at least not always), until you set a floating IP to the instance
[11:07] <fwereade> dimitern, ah, ok, sorry, you told me that the other day
[11:07] <dimitern> fwereade: yeah, but anyway we don't need the public address there or dns name - just an address to access the instance - private will do
[11:08] <fwereade> dimitern, so, wait, don't we need some public address so we can talk to the "bootstrap" node from outside? isn't that done via DNSName()?
[11:09] <dimitern> fwereade: I'm not sure, but I think it's not used from outside
[11:10] <dimitern> fwereade: maybe we should have a short call to discuss this with whoever knows best about how is this supposed to work
[11:10] <fwereade> dimitern, ISTM that we have to talk to the bootstrap node from outside
[11:10] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ping
[11:10] <dimitern> fwereade: well, how did it work in py-juju then?
[11:11] <rogpeppe> fwereade: pong
[11:11] <fwereade> rogpeppe, what's your understanding of DNSName() re public/private address?
[11:12] <fwereade> dimitern, I have no idea :)
[11:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: the only important thing AFAIR is that it should return a publicly usable address
[11:12] <fwereade> rogpeppe, that was what I thought :)
[11:12] <rogpeppe> fwereade: because that's what we use to connect to a unit from outside
[11:13] <rogpeppe> fwereade: nothing in juju connects to machines, i think
[11:13] <fwereade> rogpeppe, define "nothing in juju" please :)
[11:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade: bah. ykwim :-)
[11:14] <rogpeppe> dimitern: when you say "would it be usable from openstack", what openstack package are you referring to there?
[11:14] <dimitern> rogpeppe: environs/openstack
[11:15] <rogpeppe> dimitern: any function defined in openstack is callable from openstack
[11:15] <dimitern> rogpeppe: the problem is the tests are in openstack_test
[11:15] <rogpeppe> dimitern: then you can use export_test
[11:16] <dimitern> rogpeppe: and still use it in both openstack and openstack_test ?
[11:16] <rogpeppe> dimitern: or define some tests in openstack instead, if that's more appropriate
[11:16] <rogpeppe> dimitern: sure
[11:16] <fwereade> dimitern, hence export_test.go -- that will be in package openstack, but thanks to the _test.go name will only be built with the tests
[11:16] <rogpeppe> dimitern: in export_test:
[11:16] <fwereade> dimitern, you won't be able to use export_test.go stuff in openstack
[11:16] <rogpeppe> func GetPrivateAddress(addresses map[string][]nova.IPAddress) (string, error) {return getPrivateAddress(addresses) }
[11:16] <fwereade> dimitern, so you have an exported name that calls the unexported function
[11:17] <fwereade> dimitern, what rogpeppe said :)
[11:17] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok, I'll that then
[11:17] <dimitern> fwereade: still not sure about the DNSName semantics though
[11:17] <rogpeppe> dimitern: generally we try not to put significant code in export_test - it's used to make things available for the external tests only.
[11:18] <fwereade> dimitern, it kinda looks like you're always returning a private address there
[11:18] <fwereade> dimitern, I think I'd be ok with a private address if and only if no public one is available
[11:18] <rogpeppe> dimitern: private addresses are pretty much useless for the purposes juju uses DNSName for
[11:18] <fwereade> dimitern, but DNSName() should usually return a public one
[11:18] <dimitern> fwereade: I still think we better discuss this - with mgz as well, he has better view on the py openstack provider
[11:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i tihnk i disagree - it's misleading if juju ssh tries to connect to an address that doesn't work
[11:19] <dimitern> I need to wrap my mind around it a bit
[11:19] <fwereade> dimitern, ISTM that the python uses a private one only if it can't get a public one
[11:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ^
[11:19] <dimitern> fwereade: where do you see this?
[11:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: what's the use of doing that?
[11:20] <fwereade> rogpeppe, dimitern, mgz: my unlettered reading of this is that some openstacks have nothing public, but that the client is connecting from the same network, so it's "ok"
[11:20] <rogpeppe> fwereade: hmm, if that's really true, then it might be ok
[11:20] <fwereade> dimitern, providers/openstack/machine.py:62
[11:21] <dimitern> fwereade: yeah, I see this - so it's fine to do it like this?
[11:22] <fwereade> dimitern, I think that falling back to a private address when no public one exists is *probably* ok, assuming we get mgz to confirm we're not smoking crack
[11:23] <dimitern> mgz: ping
[11:23] <fwereade> dimitern, but the current approach of always returning private is not ok, I think
[11:23] <dimitern> fwereade: well, if we need definitely a public IP always it changes things quite a bit
[11:24] <dimitern> fwereade: we i'll then need to provision a floating IP to each machine we're starting in the environment
[11:24] <fwereade> dimitern, I think I'm failing to communicate
[11:24] <fwereade> dimitern, if a public address is available, we should definitely use that
[11:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade: maybe we should have an environ parameter, say private-addresses, saying whether we want to use private or public addresses
[11:24] <fwereade> dimitern, if not, ISTM that falling back to a private address is roughly sane
[11:25] <dimitern> fwereade: it's never available for canonistack and I doubt it will be anything but rare in other cases
[11:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade: when it's false, we could try to allocate floating ip addresses, or whatever's necessary to make dns names public
[11:25] <fwereade> dimitern, assuming my reasoning holds -- I was not privy to the thinking behind this behaviour in python, and I would like some input from someone who's done this before ;)
[11:26] <dimitern> rogpeppe: dns name allocation is also supported somewhat, but it's a different API call and likely to be similar to how floating IPs are assigned
[11:26] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah, why does it have to be DNSName()? is it not SomeStringThatWillGetYouToTheInstance()?
[11:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade: well, it's SomeStringThatWillGetYouTotheInstanceFromSomewhere() :-)
[11:27] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ha, yeah
[11:27] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and it's the "somewhere" that we can't easily second guess
[11:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I was thinking about that :)
[11:27] <fwereade> dimitern, what time's your standup again?
[11:28] <dimitern> fwereade: now
[11:29] <fwereade> dimitern, please ask mgz then, and we shall reconvene shortly?
[11:32] <dimitern> fwereade: sure, once he comes round
[11:32] <fwereade> dimitern, cool
[11:33] <mgz> dimitern: hey
[11:34]  * mgz reads discussion
[11:34] <jam> mramm: we're mumbling if you want to unmute
[11:35] <mramm> cool be on in 1 min
[11:36] <jam> mramm: you were echoing
[11:40] <mgz> so, for now returning whatever you can (by the logic from Python) for DNSName will get things working
[11:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ping
[11:49] <fwereade> rogpeppe, pong
[11:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm looking at auth stuff
[11:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: and wondering about the "admin" of SetAdminPassword
[11:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm wondering if it might be more appropriate if the "admin" was actually "client"
[11:50] <rogpeppe> fwereade: because Admin sounds like it has superuser properties, but i don't think that's what we want to give it
[11:50] <fwereade> rogpeppe, -1, I think we will before too long have to worry about other users with fewer privileges
[11:51] <rogpeppe> fwereade: indeed, and i think that "client" can more easily mutate into other usernames
[11:51] <fwereade> rogpeppe, who should have those privileges if not whoever set up the environment?
[11:51] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm not sure that anyone has all the privileges
[11:51] <fwereade> rogpeppe, this may be something we need a call to cover properly
[11:51] <rogpeppe> fwereade: for instance, i don't think we want to enable a dodgy admin to act as a uniter
[11:52] <fwereade> rogpeppe, ok -- but I think whoever set up the environment should have all applicable privileges on that environment -- and "admin" seems to fit that better than just "client" which is IMO way too generi
[11:53] <fwereade> rogpeppe, at least we're not calling them "root" ;0
[11:53] <fwereade> rogpeppe, btw, we don't have any ssh proxy support in state.Open, do we..?
[11:53] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm also looking at it from the perspective of the actual mechanics of logging in. here's the code i currently have: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1585690/
[11:54] <rogpeppe> fwereade: no. do we want it?
[11:54] <fwereade> rogpeppe, given what mgz said above, yes, probably, if we want canonistack to work
[11:54] <rogpeppe> fwereade: where would the proxy live?
[11:55] <fwereade> rogpeppe, you ssh into canonistack instances via chinstrap AIUI
[11:55] <rogpeppe> fwereade: the question wrt the above code is: what underlying type does State.Entity return when EntityName=="admin" ?
[11:55]  * rogpeppe hasn't heard of chinstrap
[11:56] <fwereade> rogpeppe, IMO we need a state.User
[11:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i think setting passwords directly on the applicable entities is fine. but we may need state.User too
[11:57] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I'm 90% sure we need a state.User, but I need to talk to you about it
[11:57] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I imagine it would have worked transparently when we were using SSH directly, because everybody would have had their proxies set up
[11:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade: what is chinstrap?
[11:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah, it's a machine!
[11:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade: we don't need ssh proxying, just a straightforward tcp tunnel
[11:58] <rogpeppe> s/tunnel/forwarder/
[11:59] <rogpeppe> fwereade: but maybe sshd can provide that.
[12:00] <fwereade> rogpeppe, just realised I need to eat before team meeting
[12:00] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ok, enjoy
[12:00] <fwereade> bbiab :)
[12:31] <wallyworld_> jam: i'm trying to lbox submit those branches and the very first one is failing with a sad gofmt, complaining about a file which doesn't even exist. have you seen that before?
[12:49] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: that sounds a bit weird. if gofmt is talking about a file, i'm pretty sure it must be there.
[12:49] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: have you tried go fmt ./... from the project root?
[12:49] <wallyworld_> yeah, tell me about it. but 'ls' says otherwise
[12:49] <wallyworld_> yep, no issues
[12:50] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: try running the same command as lbox does: find * -name '*.go' | xargs gofmt -l
[12:50] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: and see if it prints anything
[12:50] <wallyworld_> yeah, did that too
[12:50] <wallyworld_> let me see what it said
[12:51] <wallyworld_> no output, so happy
[12:51] <wallyworld_> yet lbox submit complains
[12:51] <wallyworld_> i did wipe my local go bin dir and did a go install launchpad/net/lbox earlier
[12:52] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: try putting a debug statement in .lbox.check to see if it's actually running; and include the value of $BADFMT too.
[12:52] <rogpeppe> s/a debug/an echo/
[12:53] <wallyworld_> yep, will do
[12:54] <wallyworld_> ah, complains branch is not clean, i'll have to comment out that bit
[12:54] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: just commit it...
[12:54] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: (then revert it later)
[12:55] <wallyworld_> ok
[12:57] <wallyworld_> hmmm. my echo wasn't printed
[12:57] <wallyworld_> now i'm confused
[12:57] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: sanity check failed :-)
[12:58] <wallyworld_> yeah, but that's not something i expected to fail, it's just worked previously
[12:58] <wallyworld_> and yet something is running go fmt
[12:58] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: that's what sanity checks are all about :-)
[12:59] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: more: something is saying "gofmt is sad", right?
[12:59] <wallyworld_> yes
[12:59] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: which means *a* lbox.check script is running, from somewhere...
[12:59] <wallyworld_> for a non existant file
[12:59] <wallyworld_> yeah, i'll have to try and track it down
[12:59] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: how about running lbox --versose --debug ?
[12:59] <rogpeppe> s/versose/verbose/
[12:59] <jam> poke for our hangout?
[13:00] <wallyworld_> good idea, didn't realise those optins were there
[13:00] <rogpeppe> on my way
[13:00]  * fwereade joins
[13:01] <TheMue> hangout link?
[13:01] <jam> mgz: poke for the hangout
[13:02] <jam> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/33acfc2c8af8792568274fa110371db956f9fde7
[13:02] <jam> w7z: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/33acfc2c8af8792568274fa110371db956f9fde7
[13:05] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: meeting?
[13:11] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Sorry, yep
[13:11] <wallyworld_> rogpeppe: figured it out - jam's fault :-P
[13:12] <wallyworld_> sad go fmt file in trunk which was not there when i started my branch
[13:16] <jam> wallyworld_: I'm willing to take the blame, I accidentally committed something directly that I was trying to submit via botd
[13:16] <jam> sorry about that.
[13:16] <wallyworld_> np
[13:28] <wallyworld_> jam: i've submitted my stuff, needing to merge trunk (and hence your changes) first. there were some conflicts which i think i've done correctly. but it would be cool if you could check
[13:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm just considering adding a user api to the state. we'd use it for admin only to start with, but potentially expandable in several directions. what do think of this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1585936/
[14:06] <fwereade> rogpeppe, that looks roughly sane, I'll want to have a call again in a bit but my brain is currently a touch overloaded
[14:06] <rogpeppe> fwereade: np!
[14:38] <dimitern> rogpeppe, wallyworld: follow-up https://codereview.appspot.com/7228058
[14:39] <mgz> rogpeppe: what was your trick for doing an initial codereview thing? I can just propose current trunk against an empty (or r1) branch for the current state to come up in diff, for instance
[15:08]  * niemeyer => lunch
[15:10] <dimitern> rogpeppe, mgz: follow-up on https://codereview.appspot.com/7241045/
[15:16] <mgz> dimitern: looking
[15:41] <mgz> ...I still don't like this struct-list-test+loop thing
[15:42] <dimitern> mgz: well, I like it more each time :) so compact and expressive
[15:43] <mgz> it's longer than the original!
[15:43] <dimitern> mgz: it's not yes, I changed it as we discussed - use public if available, otherwise use the private - as a compromise
[15:44] <dimitern> mgz: aah longer
[15:44] <mgz> each test in python is 5-7 lines, with pretty formatting
[15:44] <mgz> and that's the *complete* test
[15:44] <mgz> not just a test definition that then needs overly complicated testing code that lives somewhere off the page
[15:44] <dimitern> mgz: anyway it does what's supposed and it's easy to extend, etc.
[15:45] <mgz> each of these definitions is 8 lines, and that's without any test code, or the struct defintion
[15:45] <mgz> it's harder to do particular customisations for special cases though
[15:45] <mgz> you'd end up having to add a new field to your struct as a marker
[15:46] <dimitern> mgz: it's definitely shorter than individual test case methods + comments for each
[15:46] <mgz> add that to the each struct constructor (or used the named param idiom), and then special case that in the testing codde
[15:46] <mgz> yeah, because there are no comments
[15:46] <mgz> so, you've no idea what the expected result is...
[15:47] <mgz> anyway, looks fine apart from me disliking the style (which is idiomatic here, so correct for you to do...)
[15:48] <dimitern> mgz: ok :) is it LGTM then?
[15:48] <mgz> sec, hitting m shortly
[15:50] <fwereade> ok gents, I've been on since 6am and I'm a bit fried now; I'll probably swing by later, but I'm off to decompress for a bit
[15:53] <mgz> dimitern: okay, get landing :)
[15:53] <mgz> have a nice rest fwereade :)
[15:53] <dimitern> mgz: cheers
[16:17] <dimitern> rogpeppe: sorry I missed your last comments, will do a follow-up CL
[16:17] <rogpeppe> dimitern: np
[16:18] <rogpeppe> dimitern: just makes the docs look a bit more professional, i think
[16:18] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yeah, I agree - wasn't sure if using func-style comments for struct fields is ok
[16:19] <rogpeppe> dimitern: it's not always done, but i think it looks better when it is. particularly when some are longer.
[16:20] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yes, if it's a whole line, rather than a short one at the end of the line
[16:21] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah.
[16:30] <dimitern> rogpeppe: and here it is: https://codereview.appspot.com/7235058
[16:32] <rogpeppe> dimitern: LGTM with one typo
[16:32] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cheers
[17:11] <TheMue> Yeah, build of Juju on OS X works. Will test it later.
[17:30] <rogpeppe> a CL to review, if anyone fancies, nothing too onerous: https://codereview.appspot.com/7226056/
[18:04] <rogpeppe> that's me for the day
[18:04] <rogpeppe> g'night all!


[04:44] <pabs3> hi all. on the Debian wiki we use launchpadlib to check if Ubuntu bugs and annotate the wiki with bug closed/open/title/etc info. we are finding launchpadlib to be very crashy. I recently started collecting these crashes. we have 577 unique (bug, crash) combinations, representing 197 unique crashes. I was wondering where would be the best place to send these? I don't really want to file all of them on launchpadlib because some look like launchpad ops i
[04:44] <pabs3> ssues
[04:44] <wgrant> pabs3: What sort of crashes?
[04:45] <pabs3> all sorts (everything from SSL errors to infinite recursion), let me publish a tarball, one sec
[04:47] <wgrant> The weird crashes that a lot of people used to run into were caused by using a non-threadsafe cache between threads or processes.
[04:48] <wgrant> But the default launchpadlib cache is threadsafe nowadays.
[04:48] <pabs3> http://people.debian.org/~pabs/tmp/errors.tar.xz
[04:48] <pabs3> which version is that fixed in?
[04:49] <pabs3> we are using launchpadlib in a wasgi app: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/wiki.debian.org.git;a=blob_plain;f=bin/launchpad
[04:50] <wgrant> Hah
[04:51] <wgrant> Note that it has a partial workaround for that bug
[04:51] <wgrant> If the login throws an exception at all, it nukes the cache.
[04:51] <pabs3> yeah, I wrote that particular one
[04:51] <pabs3> we were finding the cache corrupted often
[04:52] <wgrant> pabs3: You may be interested in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lazr.restfulclient/0.12.0-1ubuntu1.1
[04:52] <wgrant> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/141870723/lazr.restfulclient_0.12.0-1ubuntu1_0.12.0-1ubuntu1.1.diff.gz is the diff
[04:53] <wgrant> It was fixed upstream in lazr.restfulclient 0.12.1
[04:53] <pabs3> great, I'll propose that for the next Debian stable release
[04:54] <wgrant> The SSL crashes look more like there's some transient network issue.
[04:54] <wgrant> But the Unicode errors etc. are very plausibly from concurrent use of a non-threadsafe cache.
[04:54] <wgrant> And the login issues as well -- the WADL is often a good target for corruption.
[04:54] <pabs3> from what I could google, the ssl things seem to be related to using front-end ssl accelerators or something
[04:55] <wgrant> FWIW, I run an awful lot of launchpadlib-using cronjobs and only see SSL errors on the rare occasion that a datacentre has a seizure
[04:59] <wgrant> pabs3: If you run into any more issues after that patch is applied, throw them at me and I'll have a look.
[04:59] <pabs3> ok
[05:00] <pabs3> poked the maintainer of lazr.restfulclient. any other potential issues come to mind?
[05:04] <wgrant> pabs3: The version in wheezy is fine apart from that patch.
[05:04] <pabs3> ok cool
[14:57] <tachyons> hi
[14:57] <tachyons> I successfully build my first ppa for a qt5 app
[14:58] <tachyons> it worked for 13.04(x86 and amd64) and 13.10(x86)
[14:58] <tachyons> but failed in 13.10 amd 64
[14:58] <tachyons> can anyone help for the cause of the error
[15:00] <geser> have you a link?
[15:01] <tachyons> geser, https://launchpad.net/~aboobackervyd/+archive/olam
[15:02] <tachyons> geser, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/160213273/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.olam_1.1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[15:10] <cjwatson> tachyons: the problem here is that it's using the default build system, which assumes that Makefile is good enough, but that's a Makefile configured for a particular platform
[15:10] <cjwatson> tachyons: I suggest changing "dh $@" in debian/rules to "dh $@ --buildsystem qmake"
[15:11] <cjwatson> tachyons: that should cause it to reconfigure itself properly
[15:11] <cjwatson> (untested)
[15:11] <tachyons> cjwatson, just for my curiosity, then how it worked for x86 version :-)
[15:13] <cjwatson> tachyons: because the prebuilt Makefile in the tarball is built for i386
[15:13] <cjwatson> (I don't know how it worked for 13.04, I haven't checked the package there)
[15:15] <tachyons> cjwatson, I did'nt changed make file , only thing I did is added
[15:15] <tachyons> unix {
[15:15] <tachyons>     INSTALLS += target data icon desktopfile
[15:15] <tachyons>     target.files = $$TARGET
[15:15] <tachyons>     target.path = /usr/bin
[15:15] <tachyons>     data.files = db
[15:15] <tachyons>     data.path = /usr/share/olam
[15:15] <tachyons>     icon.files = misc/olam.png
[15:15] <tachyons>     icon.path = /usr/share/icons
[15:15] <tachyons>     desktopfile.files = misc/olam.desktop
[15:15] <tachyons>     desktopfile.path = /usr/share/applications
[15:15] <tachyons>     QMAKE_CXXFLAGS += -DVISRULED_DATADIR=$$data.path
[15:15] <tachyons> }
[15:15] <tachyons> to .pro file
[15:15] <dobey> tachyons: are you creating the .tar.xz upstream tarball on a 32-bit system?
[15:16] <tachyons> dobey, It is my package, no upstream :-)
[15:16] <cjwatson> tachyons: nevertheless, "--buildsystem qmake" is almost certainly the correct fix
[15:16] <cjwatson> or at least the start of it
[15:16] <dobey> tachyons: you are the upstream
[15:16] <dobey> yes, you need --buildsystem qmake
[15:17] <cjwatson> tachyons: you probably shouldn't be distributing the Makefile in your orig tarball
[15:17] <dobey> it probably worked on 13.04 because of magic
[15:17] <dobey> your orig tarball has a Makefile that was generated on an i386 ubuntu, which references the i386 qmake; which will of course be problematic on other architectures when not regenerating the Makefile
[15:18] <tachyons> I will try, I am still wondering how it worked, I don't belive in magic :-)
[15:18] <cjwatson> I don't have time to check, sorry
[15:18] <tachyons> dobey, yes,
[15:19] <tachyons> cjwatson, No problem , you already spend your valuable time for me, Thanks :-)
[15:29] <tachyons> dobey, cjwatson after changing rule , both x86 and amd64 versions failed
[15:30] <tachyons> https://launchpad.net/~aboobackervyd/+archive/olam/+packages
[15:31] <cjwatson> are you in a position to regenerate the upstream tarball without including Makefile in it?  that's really the best answer
[15:31] <cjwatson> the Makefile is platform-dependent and shouldn't be in your source tarball
[15:32] <cjwatson> (you still need "--buildsystem qmake", that was correct, just not complete)
[15:42] <tachyons> cjwatson, how to do It? can you give a guide link
[20:54] <cristian_c> Hi
[20:54] <cristian_c> I've opened this bug report much time ago: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/972604
[20:55] <cristian_c> I was told to download and try the daily build
[20:56] <cristian_c> to verify the permanence of the bug
[20:57] <cjwatson> cristian_c: This channel is for issues with the software running on launchpad.net itself - we can't really offer help with the specific projects that are hosted on Launchpad.  You're probably better off asking somewhere like #ubuntu-kernel.
[20:58] <cristian_c> I've created the live installer, but when I boot from the device, only a blinking cursor remains  on the screen
[20:59] <cristian_c> cjwatson, ok, but I don't know how to deal with who wrote the comment
[21:00] <dobey> if you want to reply to a comment on a bug report, then do it on the bug report
[21:00] <cjwatson> Nor do we :-)  You're really better off asking #ubuntu-kernel for advice
[21:00] <cjwatson> It wasn't a comment from the site administrators or anything like that
[21:00] <cjwatson> It was just another Launchpad user
[21:01] <cristian_c> he didn't foretold this case
[21:02] <cristian_c> cjwatson, ok, but it can go a year since the last comment as last time
[21:02] <cjwatson> That's as may be ... that isn't up to the Launchpad developers
[21:02] <cristian_c> cjwatson, can I also put things like this before?
[21:02] <cjwatson> honestly, we can't possibly get involved with each of the million bugs in Launchpad
[21:03] <cristian_c> tags, etc...
[21:03] <cjwatson> if you want to know what's appropriate for an Ubuntu kernel bug, you really need to ask the people who deal with Ubuntu kernel bugs
[21:03] <cjwatson> we don't dictate policy to them
[21:04] <cjwatson> #ubuntu-kernel should be able to offer advice if anyone's around on a Friday evening this close to the Christmas break
[21:04] <cristian_c> ok, but someone manages the policy in launchpad
[21:04] <dobey> cristian_c: you need to ask in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-kernel
[21:04] <cristian_c> ok
[21:04] <dobey> policy is a per-project/distro basis
[21:05] <cjwatson> really per-package, in this case since the kernel is so complex and has so many bug reports
[21:05] <dobey> if you want help on a project or distro you need to ask them about it. this channel is for help on launchpad itself, not the policies of the projects hosted on it
[21:05] <cjwatson> even as an Ubuntu developer I wouldn't presume to say how they best manage their bugs
[21:05] <dobey> right
[21:05] <cjwatson> since I don't do more than a tiny bit of kernel work
[21:06] <dobey> and the last commentor on that bug isn't a developer. he's just a random volunteer helping with bug triage
[21:06] <cristian_c> like someone who puts his hand to open reports from users, add/remove tags, change status , assignee, ecc...
[21:07] <cristian_c> change titles, etc...
[21:07] <cristian_c> dobey, ah, ok
[21:07] <cristian_c> 'random volunteer helping with bug triage'
[21:07] <dobey> yes that has nothing to do with launchpad itself. as we said, you need to ask #ubuntu-kernel for help about a kernel bug
[21:08] <cristian_c> maybe I should ask to who manages the volunteers
[21:08] <cjwatson> right, personally I think he's probably going over the top, but I haven't really looked at a broad sample of his comments to make sure
[21:08] <cjwatson> you could try #ubuntu-bugs for that
[21:08] <cristian_c> ok
[21:08] <cristian_c> thanks, fine
[21:08] <cjwatson> he's not in obvious banning territory or anything, maybe "take it easy"
[21:09] <cristian_c> :)
[21:09] <cristian_c> perfect
[21:09] <cjwatson> (and for all I know maybe his net impact is positive - like I say, haven't checked)
[21:09] <dobey> cjwatson: right, i've had a problem with him previously on a bug i filed, but i managed to get him to leave the bug well enough alone
[21:09] <cristian_c> perfect, I'll ask in #ubuntu-bugs, or #kernel
[21:09] <cjwatson> I did have somebody mail me asking if I could advise him to tone it down
[21:10] <cjwatson> but I've been busy this week and haven't had a chance to look into it properly
[21:13] <dobey> cjwatson: my problem was that he was very insistent that bios updates from intel might magically fix my bug, regardless of whether the release notes mentioned any changes to video, or whether the video option rom was changed. and testing whether my bug is fixed or not is a very tedious process, so updating the bios on a whim every time one is released (which has been fairly often for this board), is quite problematic. and it was d
[21:13] <dobey> cjwatson: so yeah, a good "tone it down" please would probably help, if he could be made to understand he's going a bit overboard with the requests
[21:21] <cjwatson> dobey: right, though I don't know if it should be from "site staff" as it were, maybe just Ubuntu bug admins
[21:22] <dobey> cjwatson: right. that makes sense.
[21:22]  * cjwatson is all for delegation :)


[01:20] <oblenob> Hi
[01:20] <oblenob> Where might I find ubuntuone in KDE?
[01:51] <dobey> oblenob: we don't have a kde-specific client yet
[01:52] <oblenob> aah
[01:52] <oblenob> ok
[01:52] <oblenob> will ubuntuone-client-gnome work then?
[01:53] <dobey> it'll work, other's are using it
[01:57] <oblenob> dobey: thanks
[01:58] <oblenob> I have so many ideas for internet applications that could take advantage of UbuntuOne
[01:58] <oblenob> by storing a users data on the cloud
[01:58] <oblenob> the user is truly free to move anywhere
[01:58] <oblenob> use the app online
[01:58] <oblenob> or off
[01:59] <oblenob> and have access to the file online and off
[01:59] <oblenob> most applications allow users to use the app online, sometimes offline too
[01:59] <oblenob> but the files are allways online
[01:59] <dobey> right
[02:01] <oblenob> Combined with Google Gears, this could be impressive
[02:17] <l33tpolicywonk> can I ask for a little help on a proxy configuration issue?
[02:18] <l33tpolicywonk> when I try to register my computer for the first time, I get a firefox connection error
[02:19] <l33tpolicywonk> localhost is on my list of excluded servers in my proxy settings
[02:19] <l33tpolicywonk> I've tried fiddling with it a variety of ways, and I still can't get it to work
[02:30] <nobby> Hello, I'm looking for some help getting my evolution contacts to sync with ubuntuone
[02:35] <nobby> err hello?
[02:38] <nobby> Is there a rodrigo about?
[02:40] <oblenob> nobby: if there is, it aint me
[02:41] <nobby> I was told to come here to get some help syncing my evolution contacts with ubuntuone
[02:42] <oblenob> I am new with UbuntuOne so I am sorry that I cannot be of any help
[02:42] <oblenob> to either you or myself
[02:43] <nobby> oh ok, no worries :)
[02:59] <mikeru>   how do I sync contacts?
[03:03] <mikeru> HELLO?
[03:10] <Svenn-Arne> Hi folks. Have anyone got an idea about why my sound card (HD Intel on an ASUS P6T motherboard) does show up on the live CD, but not on my installed system. Using Karmic Koala and updated from Jaunty.
[03:10] <Svenn-Arne> mikeru: I think you'll find the info you need here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Contacts
[03:11] <Svenn-Arne> aplay -vv somefile.wav
[03:11] <Svenn-Arne> oops, wrong terminal :P
[04:42] <Svenn-Arne> Oh, I figured it on my own. It appeared that I hadn't installed the newest kernel. With the newest kernel everything is up and running just fine :)
[12:53] <Gwaihir> I have a problem with u1, looking at .cache/ubuntuone/log I get a "twisted - ERROR - Unhandles error in Deferred"
[12:53] <Gwaihir> any clue on what could be wrong?
[13:11] <Guest2106> elo
[15:48] <th1> hi, does anyone know why I get "Capabilities Mismatch" when I try to connect Ubuntu One? I have Karmic UNR with all updates
[15:49] <th1> strike that, restarting the client manually helped:)
[17:13] <mnc2> Hi there, could you help me to had my computer to ubuntu one?
[17:24] <mnc2> I can't add my computer...
[17:37] <mnc2> hello, anyone here?
[19:41] <Notsonoble> I just went to show someone the website, I'm getting 503 errors...
[19:45] <Notsonoble> ?
[19:48] <Notsonoble> anybody/
[19:56] <Notsonoble> anybody there?
[20:18] <j0nr> evening
[20:18] <j0nr> just getting karmic with ubuntuone running
[20:19] <j0nr> it seems to log in fine, I have added my computer ok... but I am not sure whether I should see the files that I see in the web browser place also in my Ubuntu One folder
[20:19] <j0nr> as I do not.
[20:30] <j0nr> ah its all working now :)
[22:47] <ibeardslee> ahhh .. /me waits for the NZ mirrors to update to get the update to the ubuntuone-client


[07:48] <crevette> hello
[19:19] <mpontillo> hrm. should I be concerned that when I regenerated the autoreconf patch, it contained a lot more files? http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m355f74cb
[19:20] <mpontillo> ... oh, I think I see why... it had to touch the AC_AUTOCONF_VERSION in all of tem
[19:20] <mpontillo> *them.
[20:10] <mpontillo> ... anyway, I have a fix in bzr for bug 235128 if someone wants to sponsor or give feedback later.


[07:30] <vorlon> Eickmeyer[m]: packages in multiverse require permission for distribution by not only Ubuntu, but also our mirror network
[14:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> vorlon: That's what I thought. For the record, I got better clarification from the author: the modules have a custom license with permission to be distributed with the application no matter the distributor.


[14:29] <carlonsky> buongiorno a tutti
[14:32] <carlonsky> sto tentando di installare ubuntu studio su di una distro ubuntu 23.04 official with gnome
[14:32] <Eickmeyer> !it | carlonsky
[14:44] <carlonsky> I'm trying to install ubuntu studio within a regular ubuntu 23.04 with gnome as a  destop environment
[14:44] <carlonsky> using the provided ubuntu studio installer doesn't seem to work properly
[14:46] <Eickmeyer> carlonsky: checking all of the boxes on ubuntu studio installer isn't a good idea, as two of the packages cannot be installed simultaneously (ubuntustudio-pipewire-config and ubuntustudio-pulseaudio-config). Furthermore, ubuntustudio-pulseaudio-config cannot be installed on Ubuntu Desktop due to a known bug in the ubuntu-desktop metapackage.
[14:46] <carlonsky> I saw that so does this mean I just cannot use ubuntu studio on this version on ubuntu?
[14:47] <Eickmeyer> (this is documented on the page)
[14:47] <Eickmeyer> No, read the documentation carefully.
[14:47] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer
[14:47] <carlonsky> so what if I try from terminal without the installer? I actually did that and it installed most of the things
[14:48] <Eickmeyer> "NOTE: Due to a packaging bug in Ubuntu Desktop (the ubuntu-desktop metapackage specifically), ubuntustudio-pulseaudio-config is incompatible and cannot be installed. Users of Ubuntu Desktop (also known as Ubuntu GNOME or Ubuntu “vanilla”) must use ubuntustudio-pipewire-config."
[14:48] <Eickmeyer> Are you reading what I'm typing?
[14:48] <carlonsky> yes
[14:48] <Eickmeyer> It's still possible.
[14:48] <carlonsky> in fact I did install pipewire
[14:48] <carlonsky> and dropped the other one
[14:48] <Eickmeyer> Then you're done.
[14:49] <carlonsky> what about the low latency kernel
[14:49] <carlonsky> do I need to check that when I reboot?
[14:49] <Eickmeyer> Did that install?
[14:49] <carlonsky> probably yes
[14:49] <Eickmeyer> Then you're fine. Just reboot and everything is good.
[14:49] <carlonsky> Ok I'll try
[14:49] <carlonsky> thanx for now
[14:50] <Eickmeyer> You really didn't need help, you did everything correctly.
[14:51] <carlonsky> I'm checking the kernel rebooting, it is not working now. for instance I can't find the ubuntu studio setup app
[14:51] <Eickmeyer> There's no such thing.
[14:52] <Eickmeyer> And that's not a feature of the lowlatency kernel.
[14:55] <Eickmeyer> If you mean the audio configuration utility, that's a 23.10 feature.
[15:03] <carlonsky> Yes, I noticed that. I'll mess around with it and let you know. I was interested in trying linuxsampler with ubuntu studio on my hp
[15:04] <Eickmeyer> Ok. Just of note: you have not converted your system to Ubuntu Studio as a flavor, you've simply installed Ubuntu Studio's configuration and applications onto Ubuntu.
[15:04] <carlonsky> I always used old hardware so I wanted to give a chance to it with same hardware I'll normally use to play music
[15:05] <Eickmeyer> Sounds great.
[15:05] <carlonsky> exactly, I was really impressed on the new (for me) environment of ubuntu 23.04 gnome
[15:07] <carlonsky> So I wanted to keep that. Probably it will be easier to just install from scratch a new ubuntu 22 professionally approved version of it. I won't be very interested in the desktop environment if I'm playing music
[15:07] <carlonsky> Maybe a dual boot