[00:08] <ethan42m> ok I think I did it with mkusb everything seems ok
[00:09] <ethan42m> thanks again all
[08:59] <Lubuntu_user99> Is it possible to combine the launcher and the task bar? So that when launching an app, instead of adding another icon, it opens on the launcher icon?


[00:01] <James500> I have a debdiff for a bug in a multiverse package - how do I report it?
[00:02] <secretlondon> attach it to the bug
[00:02] <secretlondon> and then subscribe universe sponsors
[00:02] <James500> to a Launchpad bug report?
[00:07] <secretlondon> yes
[00:13] <James500> thanks, bug report submitted
[01:54] <Laibsch> I wonder why anki which is in Debian is not in intrepid.  bug 145007
[01:55] <Laibsch> Same goes for latest version of apt-cacher-ng which is 0.1.9 in intrepid and 0.1.13 in debian
[01:55] <Laibsch> Am I misunderstanding something?
[02:04] <RAOF> Laibsch: I don't _think_ the autosync has been turned on yet?
[02:09] <ogra> well, MOM is runing
[02:10] <ogra> and the toolchian is in place
[02:14] <Laibsch> Ah, I see
[02:14] <Laibsch> I saw intrepid and immediately assumed the sync had been already done
[02:15] <Laibsch> So, I guess I need to be a bit more patient and things should fall into place
[02:19] <ogra> autosync should start soon
[02:49] <yuriy> ah the bot is broken
[02:49]  * yuriy was wondering why he didn't have a pile of bugs to look through
[11:00] <mr-russ> hi, does php have a upstream tracker attachement in launchpad?
[11:01] <james_w> it looks like "php" is registered
[11:02] <mr-russ> I got error when I put a bug URL in.
[11:03] <mr-russ> http://bugs.php.net/44890
[11:03] <mr-russ> Launchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL
[11:04] <james_w> hmm, I'm not sure then
[11:07] <mr-russ> okay, I'll add the URL as a comment.  I have no idea how to add the php bug tracker, it's not a standard one I recognise.
[11:08] <james_w> mr-russ: once one of the experts is up we can get it done properly
[11:10] <mr-russ> bug no is: 218891
[11:10] <mr-russ> I may not be up when they get up.  Good old Australia in the middle of know where :)
[11:11] <james_w> thanks for the info, I'll relay it to them
[12:11] <gnomefreak> can anyone please try to reproduce bug 224966 ? no matter how hard i try i cant do it
[12:20] <laga> gnomefreak: works fine in kubuntu hardy, w/o compiz.
[12:21] <gnomefreak> thanks i think its something that he did :(
[12:21] <gnomefreak> wish i could prove it though without a shadow of a doubt
[13:30] <kahrytan> Hello
[13:30] <kahrytan> Should I change the title for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/220952 ?
[13:36] <persia> kahrytan: As the issue seems to be about lack of support for a specific display model, changing the title might make it clearer to bug reviewers.
[13:36] <kahrytan> like to 'Xorg Config Needed for Viewsonic VA1916W"
[13:37] <persia> That certainly seems to encapsulate the issue more clearly.
[13:37] <kahrytan> I dont know the name of templates for displayconfig-gtk
[13:38] <james_w> kahrytan: Hi. I've been meaning to ask you about that bug. Are you using displayconfig-gtk, or are you using "System->Preferences->Screen Resolution"?
[13:39] <kahrytan> james_w,  gtk applet doesnt do much at all. displayconfig-gtk doesnt recognized the monitor so its generic.
[13:39] <james_w> kahrytan: sorry? I don't understand your answer.
[13:39] <kahrytan> james_w,  in short, both. Niether work.
[13:39] <james_w> In 8.04 the program that is run by "System->Preferences->Screen Resolution" changed, so displayconfig-gtk isn't right if you are using that.
[13:40] <kahrytan> displayconfig-gtk doesnt know what it is so its generic. And its not listed at all
[13:40] <kahrytan> and that Screen Resolution thing sucks royally. doesnt do anything useful
[13:41] <kahrytan> The only thing it is useful  is changging resolution and thats it
[13:43] <kahrytan> Ubuntu doesnt detect the monitor and even know what it is.
[13:44] <kahrytan> james_w,  Why you ask?
[13:45] <james_w> just to get the bug to the right plave
[13:45] <james_w> place, I mean.
[13:45] <kahrytan> So, What is your job
[13:46] <james_w> does that matter?
[13:46] <kahrytan> I changing title to "X Support needed for Viewsonic VA1916W"
[13:46] <kahrytan> or you got better one?
[13:47] <james_w> sounds good. I don't know where that needs to be included, but it's not displayconfig-gtk or gnome-display-properties, so I've invalidated that task.
[13:47] <kahrytan> Why?
[13:47] <james_w> they just get the information from X, and then tell it to tweak things.
[13:48] <kahrytan> How about, put it where Ubuntu can detect it and configurate X properly so it full screen games can be played?
[13:48] <james_w> I can't speak for displayconfig-gtk, but gnome-display-properties certainly has no idea of the quirks of a particular monitor.
[13:48] <kahrytan> X is right place.
[13:48] <kahrytan> Xorg
[13:48] <james_w> yes, and there is still a task open for that, I was just explaining why I closed it for displayconfig-gtk
[13:49] <kahrytan> But if it existed in the monitor list then people can use it to configured xorg.conf
[13:50] <james_w> yeah, but displayconfig-gtk is deprecated, and it's much better if X can do it all by itself.
[13:51] <kahrytan> Gutsy X did fine with it.
[13:51] <kahrytan> it's the version in Hardy that sucks
[13:52] <kahrytan> Why is displayconfig deprecated?  is there better tool to configure Xorg.conf?
[13:53] <kahrytan> NV driver detected it just fine, btw.
[13:53] <laga> vim
[13:53] <laga> scnr.
[13:53] <james_w> The plan is to move it all in to X
[13:53] <kahrytan> That explains the lack of support for this monitor. Someone forgot to add it?
[13:54] <james_w> I've no idea. I doubt that every monitor is listed
[13:54] <james_w> I imagine that the monitor is just reporting what it can handle incorrectly or in a strange way.
[13:54] <kahrytan> james_w,  again, NV driver did fine with it
[13:55] <kahrytan> james_w, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14028337/NV_Output_Xorg.log
[13:55] <james_w> so it's a problem with the nvidia driver?
[13:55] <james_w> "Confirmed aka Tested and Broken for both Nvidia and NV drivers. "
[13:55] <kahrytan> not exactly
[13:56] <kahrytan> NV still adds bad rates to modelines.
[13:56] <kahrytan> But detects alright.
[13:57] <kahrytan> are they trying to do away with xorg.conf too?
[13:58] <james_w> bdmurray: Hi. When you get a minute can you do any necessary magic to add http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44890 as the upstream watch of bug 218891?
[13:58] <james_w> bdmurray: or is it that lp needs to add support for dealing with the php tracker?
[13:59] <james_w> kahrytan: yes, in most cases, it would still be used as a way to change things if needed (driver etc.).
[14:00] <kahrytan> james_w, Thats a really bad idea.
[14:00] <kahrytan> Unless X developers want to keep on top of every single hardware ever created past, present, and future.
[14:01] <james_w> that's their plan.
[14:01] <james_w> I'm going to get lunch now, back later.
[14:01] <kahrytan> Yeah bad idea
[14:01] <kahrytan> really bad.
[14:01] <kahrytan> They should focus on other things.
[14:02] <kahrytan> otherwise, bugs like this will continue to happen forever.
[14:21] <bddebian> Boo
[14:21] <jaredbuck> hey. what's up?
[14:32] <niekie> Woei!
[14:32] <niekie> Err.. wrong chan.
[14:59] <thekorn> I got an additional slot today in the openweek, does anybody have suggestions on how to fill this extra hour?
[15:03] <qense> a Q&A hour about bug triaging/managing? Explain who can set what, what's the purpose of milestones, why you shouldn't mark duplicates as invalid
[15:03] <qense> what teams you have to join
[15:03] <qense> what you ahve to do before you're a bug triager
[15:03] <gaurav> ^ that would help me :)
[15:06] <james_w> hi thekorn. I like the libnotify support in the applet, thanks.
[15:06] <qense> yes, that's a nice feature
[15:07] <thekorn> sounds like a plan, so if anybody who is more experienced in bug triaging and maybe more involved into the whole process have some time in the 16.00 UTC hour, feel free to join the session
[15:07] <qense> I can help a bit
[15:07]  * thekorn waves to james_w
[15:08]  * thekorn hugs qense
[15:08] <qense> :)
[15:08] <qense> it's already 16:08 here, but still two hours until it's 16:00 UTC
[15:09] <jaredbuck> it's a little after 7 am in my neck of the woods.
[15:09] <gnomefreak> 10 here
[15:16] <qense> thekorn: When I upgraded my fathers computer to hardy the upgrade programs removed the five-a-day program. I think this was done because the repository containing the tool was (temporally) disabled. But is this a bug in five-a-day or in the updater? I don't like it when programs I'm using are removed during an upgrade. ;)
[15:18] <qense> pedro is also having a talk about the bugsquad tomorrows
[15:19] <thekorn> qense, I'm by no means a packaging magician, i've no clue, the simpliest answer for me is: it's the updater ;)
[15:20] <thekorn> but feel free to open a bugreport and add a five-a-day task and we can try to sort it out
[15:20] <qense> I think I'm going to do that
[15:20] <qense> but what's the package for the updater?
[15:21] <thekorn> not sure, maybe update-manager
[15:22] <james_w> qense: did you grab the logs from the upgrade?
[15:23] <qense> I'm grabbing them at the moment
[15:23] <james_w> cool, let us know and we can have a log
[15:23] <james_w> s/log/look/
[15:33] <qense> ah
[15:33] <qense> the package had a broken dep on libbonobo2-bin
[15:33] <qense> it was a dependency op the applet, which was a dependecy of the program tiself
[15:35] <qense> it's probably already solved
[15:42] <afflux> morning
[15:42] <qense> hello
[15:43] <jaredbuck> good morning.
[15:43] <MightyTweek> morning!
[15:44] <afflux> yippie, bughelper session in ~15 mins
[15:44] <thekorn> good morning afflux, how are you doing today ;)
[15:45] <afflux> thekorn: I'm fine, could sleep longer than estimated ;)
[15:45] <jaredbuck> and it's a double dose of bughelper too - two hrs today.
[15:45] <afflux> oh right
[15:47] <jaredbuck> yeah. and jcastro's having a q and a session right after.
[15:48]  * afflux will start reading the python packaging logs from yesterday evening
[15:49] <jaredbuck> too technical for me, that.  i read the kde 4 and podcast logs :)
[15:50] <james_42> where will the bughelper session be held?
[15:50] <afflux> #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:50] <afflux> argh, not -chat
[15:51] <james_42> afflux: thanks
[15:57] <qense> thekorn: gl ;)
[15:57] <thekorn> ;)
[16:05] <qense> the next hugday at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad isn't right I suppose
[16:05] <qense> unless we're going to wait for another year
[16:08] <afflux> that was the wrong button :(
[16:18] <ScottK> bdmurray: Would you please emphasize/add as needed in your documentation the bugsquad people should leave sync/merge bugs alone?
[16:18] <ScottK> Stuff like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/225669/+activity interferes with our MOTU workflow.
[16:19] <afflux> ScottK steals my suggestions!
[16:19] <persia> Nah.  It's called "relaying good ideas".  It's collaboration.
[16:19] <afflux> oh. ;)
[16:19] <ScottK> Actually, I think another good rule would be for bugsquad not to touch any bug that has ubuntu-universe-sponsors, ubuntu-main-sponsors, or ubuntu-archive subscribed.
[16:20] <ScottK> My first plan was to hunt down the individual in question and explain it to him, but he's not on IRC right now, so I decided to work on a more systematic approach.
[16:21] <afflux> (possibly related:) IMHO our guidelines should be far more visible to new LP users. Lots of users just set bug states without knowing what "fix committed" actually means. Same thing for assignments
[16:22] <qense> yeah, we should integrate it somehow
[16:22] <qense> maybe we should actually use the help system
[16:23] <qense> I've written this as stock reply for Brainstorm bugs: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9509/
[16:23] <afflux> hum, that's not really close to the bug interface imho. I learnt about the help system quite some time after I started using LP
[16:23] <qense> do you think it's good enough?
[16:24] <ScottK> qense: Personally I'm not a fan of stock replies.  They come across as impersonal and are counter to the idea of Ubuntu being Linux for human beings.
[16:24] <jaredbuck> me either.
[16:24] <qense> yeah, I don't use them very often. Almost never actually. ;) But it's a task on the ToDo list, I think at least someone wants to use it.
[16:29] <persia> Just because someone wants to avoid thinking by using a stock reply doesn't mean they should be encouraged.
[16:29] <qense> :D
[16:30] <qense> I think ti would be good to discuss with bdmurray if stock replies are really needed
[16:30] <qense> because (almost?) everypne here says (s)he doesn't use it
[16:30] <afflux> they were useful for me when I started triaging.
[16:31] <afflux> I still use some of them to get the "best" wording, since I'm a non-native englishspeaker and I sometimes have to check gramar or similar stuff.
[16:31] <afflux> that does not mean I copy+paste them and click "submit" but rather take parts, adjust them to fit the needs in the respective bug and so on
[16:31] <qense> they are indeed a good guideline
[16:31] <james_w> I think recommending that you tweak the wording each time or similar would take away most of the impersonal nature.
[16:32] <persia> afflux: That's a good point.  The stock replies can definitely be useful for people learning English.  It's hard to balance it right, and would likely benefit (as with so much else) from more, and better, documentation.
[16:32] <qense> we could also make checklists for everycase
[16:32] <qense> so you know what to include
[16:32] <james_w> however, ask someone that deals with hundreds of bugs whether they are useful in some circumstances.
[16:32] <afflux> exactly
[16:33] <qense> pedro!
[16:33] <persia> james_w: TO a certain degree, I agree, but on the days that I've gone over 100 bugs triaged, I've tended to type roughly the same thing in every case, but could rarely cut & paste, as each bug is a little different.
[16:33]  * persia can never get above about 25 unless focusing on vertical triage: lots of bugs in the same category
[16:36]  * afflux recommends https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080425, there are plenty left and most of them are easy to check off ;)
[16:36] <ScottK> I see utility is saying the reply should be along these lines and include these elements.
[16:36] <james_w> maybe I'm wrong then, I've just seen stock replies used for things like duplicates from people like pedro who triage loads of bugs.
[16:38] <ScottK> Particularly in the case of duplicates, I think it's important to encourage people to learn and continue to contribute.  I think that's more important that have the bug database more accurate.  Stock replies are not as a rule encouraging to receive.
[16:38] <ScottK> Even if he has a basic stock answer, it should still be adjusted for the situation and not just reused verbatim.
[16:39] <persia> I am frequently bothered by finding bugs with the duplicate stock reply and no duplicate marker.  I think it's almost better to have a duplicate marker with no comment.
[16:42] <afflux> persia: not sure. I'm subscribed to a bug with a fairly big number of duplicates and some of them had no comment but just the marker, resulting in people commenting on every bug but the master
[16:42] <bdmurray> ScottK: you said bug 225669 right?
[16:43] <persia> afflux: Maybe.  My bother is when I get bugmail saying something is a duplicate with no pointer to the master, as it means I would have to repeat someone else's work in order to follow the thread.
[16:43] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:44] <bdmurray> And the bug shouldn't be confirmed?
[16:44] <ScottK> bdmurray: The fundamental problem is bugsquad really shouldn't try to 'improve' these workflow bugs.
[16:44] <bdmurray> ScottK: Well these aren't even really bug reports per se.
[16:44] <ScottK> bdmurray: No.  Because for a sync request confirmed means that a MOTU has reviewed it and agrees a sync is the correct thing to do.
[16:44] <ScottK> Exactly.
[16:44] <persia> bddebian: Right, but LP is also used for workflow.
[16:44] <afflux> persia: ah yes
[16:44] <Konam> The package gnome-subtitles isn't working as expected on my system. It crash when I try to create a new sub and doesn't open subs that I already have on my hdd
[16:45] <bdmurray> I've mixed feelings about sync requests even being in the bug tracker.
[16:46] <persia> bdmurray: I can agree with that, but it's where the archive admins want them for now.  There's the same issue with MainInclusionReports, merges, etc.
[16:46] <bdmurray> So then bug triagers should not touch - MIR, sync requests, merges and needs-packaging bugs?
[16:47] <qense> maybe we should create a separate website for merge/sync requests?
[16:47] <persia> Probably also promotion/demotion bugs, and remove-from-archive bugs.
[16:47] <persia> qense: As long as you have all of subscriptions, LP-authentication, LP-teams, and ability to directly interact with Soyuz, that sounds like a good idea.
[16:48] <qense> if it would be in python you can just use the lp module
[16:48] <persia> Well, except for the interact-with-Soyuz bit.
[16:48] <qense> oh
[16:49] <ScottK> qense: A lot of this used to be tracked on the wiki, but it didn't scale.
[16:50] <bdmurray> My concern is asking people to come help triage bugs excpets for a,b,c,d and sometimes e.
[16:50] <ScottK> bdmurray: I think a simple rule is to look and see who's subscribed.  uus/ums/ubuntu-archive/motu-release/ubuntu-release/ubuntu-mir bugs should all be left alone.
[16:51] <qense> can't the LP devs create some automated marker to make this more clear?
[16:51] <ScottK> Even if there are issues in those bugs, it's a safe bet someone more experienced is/will look at the bug.
[16:51] <persia> What about ubuntu-sru/motu-sru?  Does their workflow get interrupted by changes, or is it better integrated with bugsquad?
[16:52] <persia> qense: Yes, but not soon.  See e.g. bug #180388 as an example of one of those sorts of things
[16:53] <qense> it would be great if bugs in specific packages would get a certain flag
[16:53] <persia> bug #179857 covers some of the issues as well.
[16:53] <bdmurray> persia: I don't think so as bugs going through SRU are at Confirmed / Triaged state and most mistakes happen to New bugs.
[16:54] <persia> bdmurray: I think you're probably right.  I also think the SRU teams are more integrated with their use of bug status as those tend not to be workflow bugs.
[17:56] <qense> What should we do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Triaging ? I haven't had time for it lately and I have to admit that I've also forgotten it.
[17:57] <bdmurray> I thought there was a fair bit of overlap with it and debugging procedures
[17:58] <qense> yes, that's true
[17:59] <bdmurray> For example if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUpdateManager there is a section for Forwarding Upstream although it isn't necessary
[17:59] <qense> there is also a group of wiki pages about upstream bug trackers
[17:59] <qense> I think we should merge those three groups into one
[17:59] <bdmurray> It had been my thought that each package, or subsystem, would have a landing page like that
[18:00] <qense> that was also my though
[18:00] <qense> but the upstream peopel didn't reply to my email
[18:00] <qense> (except for the libmtp people)
[18:02] <bdmurray> I think some packages will point to the same upstream page so have the upstream page separate makes sense to me
[18:03] <bdmurray> However, we could setup an include to make it all on one page
[18:03] <qense> but does the include function already work?
[18:03] <qense> I know there is a marco for that but I don't know if it's already enabled
[18:04] <bdmurray> Yes, if you look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags you can see network-manager and update-manager tags included
[18:05] <qense> wouldn't it be better to create pages like http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Package/* and let that pacakge contain all information we have/need about that package
[18:05] <qense> of course the tags should also be held at Bugs/tags to keep an overview
[18:07] <bdmurray> Having Bugs/Package/* makes sense and is easier to remember than DebuggingPackage.  I think we'd need to setup redirects though as a fair number of bug reports point to the existing wiki pages
[18:09] <qense> I'd say that we should make the old/current pages redirect to the new one
[18:09] <qense> but it will be a lot of work to gather all information about all packages
[18:10] <bdmurray> right, so looking at the packages with the greatest number of bugs first makes sense to me
[18:11] <qense> are we going to use the packages launchpad uses?
[18:12] <bdmurray> What do you mean exactly?
[18:12] <qense> in lp you have different names like gnome-system-utils instead of users-admin
[18:13] <qense> I think ti would be the best idea to use gnome-system-utils to limit the amount of work needed
[18:15] <james_w> qense: that's the "source" package name, and it's what developers tend to refer to the package as, so I would suggest sticking with that.
[18:15] <james_w> if there are packages that are not at all obvious we could set up redirects.
[18:15] <bdmurray> Ah, yes naming it the same as the Launchpad package makes sense but maybe we should also add a user-admin page that redirects to the package name
[18:18] <qense> how are we going to gather all the data?
[18:19] <qense> it's quite a lot of work that needs to be done
[18:20] <bdmurray> The information about how to treat a package?  I think it'll need to happen manually.
[18:20] <qense> yes
[18:21] <qense> I think we need to create some kind of ToDo list where people can assign themselves to a package
[18:22] <qense> is there a way to export a list of packages from LP?
[18:23] <bdmurray> I think we should focus on ones widely used and with lots of bugs first rather than looking at every package in LP
[18:24] <qense> but we need to keep track of what's done at some way
[18:25] <highvoltage> howdy! anyone around?
[18:25] <bdmurray> I could probably get that list
[18:25] <qense> hello highvoltage
[18:25] <qense> ok
[18:25] <highvoltage> hey qense
[18:25] <highvoltage> if a bug is resolved in hardy, and the bug was filed against gutsy, then the bug can be resolved right?
[18:25] <highvoltage> refering to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-themes-ubuntu/+bug/136686 in particular
[18:27] <qense> yeah, that can probablu
[18:35] <qense> bdmurray: shall I create the page directly or do you think it would be better to wait for the list?
[18:36] <bdmurray> qense: which page? we've talked about quite a few things recently
[18:39] <qense> a starting page for Bugs/Packages, the progress page for this and maybe a start with the content
[18:40] <bdmurray> I think talking about it with the whole team on the mailing list would be a good idea.
[18:41] <qense> ok
[18:41] <qense> I'll try to write a summary of what we've just discussed and mail it to it.
[18:41] <qense> bugcontrol or bugsquad?
[18:42] <bdmurray> bugsquad I think
[18:42] <qense> ok
[22:54] <afflux> good night


[13:37] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I see you doing stuff. You around this morning?
[19:37] <longsleep> Hey folks, is the console-setup.service supposed to work on aarch64? I get something very similar to bug #1516591


[00:09] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Oh, OK thank you. Is there a workaround to send files via bluetooth on the Vollaphone? (incoming / outgoing)
[01:21] <ubptgbot> DrNasreldin was added by: DrNasreldin
 @UniversalSuperBox [We're live! Join us for some retrospective fun on 2020... it is ending too quick …], Very nice, thank you guys ! : )
[03:30] <ubptgbot> <8BTC Melody> he doesn't want to remove bad word
 @Steve Kueffer [Oh, OK thank you. Is there a workaround to send files via bluetooth on the Volla …], you can download the bluetooth transfer file from the openstore
 @just_carlod [what is yunit project?], was one of the forks of unity 8 after the drop
 @rocket2nfinity [Was. The project died.], i never got why the project died, there's any chance they would help out with lomiri? :^3
 @Javacookies [you can download the bluetooth transfer file from the openstore], appears still missing on arm64
 oh  really? why do I have it on my Xperia X??
 ah I think someone built it and sent to me 😅
 yeah he build and sent it to you :p
 wonder why he hasn't publish it yet
[05:00] <ubptgbot> R R was added by: R R
 not sure if the maintainer was the one that sent it
 speaking of, I still need to find a way for it to handle all file types, I rename files to `.txt` or `.jpg` to send them 😅
 @Javacookies [speaking of, I still need to find a way for it to handle all file types, I renam …], Just change that in the code, openstore handles all file types, just copy that...
 it uses the `share` function instead of `open` so it seems to be a bit different
 last time I tried I think it didn't work, so maybe my next try wpuld be to use the normal content hub  function
 @Fuseteam [i never got why the project died, there's any chance they would help out with lo …], As I recall, there was a disagreement in direction. One part wanted to work with Ubuntu Touch and Unity 8 and I have seen some of them here. Where the rest went, I don't know. I'm a fan of Unity wherever it's successful, so I'm here.
[05:26] <ubptgbot> VVAgw was added by: VVAgw
[05:26] <ubptgbot> Marco Compagno was added by: Marco Compagno
[05:55] <ubptgbot> Lannutti was added by: Lannutti
[05:55] <ubptgbot> Shark747 was added by: Shark747
[06:57] <ubptgbot> rithytelegram was added by: rithytelegram
[07:17] <ubptgbot> anbu R was added by: anbu R
 @rocket2nfinity [Is this better?], Yes thank you
[08:24] <ubptgbot> Kazu-Q was added by: Kazu-Q
[08:40] <ubptgbot> BIGJAY2000 was added by: BIGJAY2000
 Hello guys am new here
 I have lg v20 and let max x900 which one can run ubport
 Any help
 Neither
 Are any on android 9?
 I think lg v20 is on the list but maturity - 0
 Is it? Since when?
 idk, but https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/h918/
 That's for the t mobile variant but something ig
[08:51] <ubptgbot> Certyfreak was added by: Certyfreak
 Hi
 Hey!
 Can i install ubuntu touch on infinix phones?
 No
 Got kernel source?
 @amyosx [Got kernel source?], I don't so
 @amyosx [Got kernel source?], [Edit] I don't think so
 @Certyfreak [I don't think so], Then no
 update of oneplus 5 cheeseburger ubuntu port.!
 Is available?
 Well Florian showed it last night in the q+a, but I'm not sure if its public yet
[09:44] <ubptgbot> <Alex | Zozovsky> i meant string representation
 @Alex | Zozovsky [i meant string representation], ?
 Ok
 @just_carlod [idk, but https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/h918/], I see but not yet
[09:58] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @Javacookies [you can download the bluetooth transfer file from the openstore], Thank you, but this app doesn’t appear in the OpenStore on the Vollaphone (it does with Nexus 5). It seams that the app is not compatible with arm64 yet. So I wonder if there’s a way to send files via Bluetooth on the Vollaphone?
 To the XperiaX users, how often do you get the "Device will power off in 5 seconds" issue?
 @boriseto [To the XperiaX users, how often do you get the "Device will power off in 5 secon …], Never ...
 @boriseto [To the XperiaX users, how often do you get the "Device will power off in 5 secon …], Power off? I never had that yet. BUT on reboot you get the "your device is not trusted. Reboot in 5 seconds" message on EVERY reboot.
 Or startup or whatever the message is. Would need to reboot.
 @Danfro [Power off? I never had that yet. BUT on reboot you get the "your device is not t …], Instead of reboot I get power off :/
 And it actually stays off
 "Your device will boot in 5 seconds" mine says.
 Is that when shutting down? Or when restarting?
[10:16] <ubptgbot> Álvaro was added by: Álvaro
 When the device freezes it shows the message with red sign that it will power off.
 mine reboots from time to time … seems to happen when I do something, loke close or open an app
 Yeah, it is when the cpu is somehow overwhelmed I believe
 Strange. When freezing or crashing (which happens maybe two or three times a week) I can not remember having a power off message.
 [Edit] Strange. When freezing or crashing (which happens maybe zero to three times a week) I can not remember having a power off message.
 Memory full or some cpu overload I suspect as source too.
 strangely Xperia X has more ram but I don't remember much reboots on my MX4 before
 Letv max x9000 port available
 Sony Xperia z3 port availabile
 So I've ordered my Nexus 5, slimport hdmi adapter (thanks @Javacookies). I've got a mini Bluetooth keyboard/touchpad from my old raspberry pi but that needs a usb adaptor. Is there a specific kind of Bluetooth keyboard/mouse that works well for Nexus 5 convergence? Does the phone work with two BT devices okay?
 @xander2m [So I've ordered my Nexus 5, slimport hdmi adapter (thanks @Javacookies). I've go …], if there's a dongle, that's not bluetooth, it uses 2.4ghz signal. Bluetooth can handle 7 devices simultaneously. In my video, I have keyboard, mouse and speaker all connected via BT 😉
 note though that there are certain devices that has problem with BT on UT. Compatibility isn't perfectly yet
 I watched the video. I'm hoping it works as well for me. So just any BT keyboard and mouse?
 in my experience, anything with BLE has issues on UT
 And UT and BLE?
 😂
 Ubuntu Touch lol
 Bluetooth low energy mode
 some devices supports normal mode and BLE so those are fine usually
 👍
 Okay, I'll have a good look 👀
 @Danfro [Strange. When freezing or crashing (which happens maybe zero to three times a we …], And I got 3 power off messages just today. It's possible cause I'm still setting up everything. I reinstalled it last night.
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/cU1e0Dm4.null
 @Steve Kueffer [Thank you, but this app doesn’t appear in the OpenStore on the Vollaphone (it do …], here's the one sent before,it works for me
[11:00] <ubptgbot> lucgm was added by: lucgm
 @rocket2nfinity [As I recall, there was a disagreement in direction. One part wanted to work with …], oh i see hmmm
[12:23] <ubptgbot> greenspand was added by: greenspand
[12:46] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @Javacookies [here's the one sent before,it works for me], Thanks 🙏 so much! I will try.
[12:51] <ubptgbot> Fillername was added by: Fillername
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/G0C7nPHy.png
 Camera seems to have lost permissions to camera? How do i fix that?
 I tried clearing both camera app and system settings with uttt, no change. Also tried updating, no change
 anyone using redmi note 8 for ubuntu touch?
[13:14] <ubptgbot> <Willem-Jan de Hoog> @YougoChats if on bacon see here: https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/1631
 @Willem-Jan de Hoog [@YougoChats if on bacon see here: https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues …], Hmm i see. Bacon on dev indeed. Switching to stable...
 @YougoChats [Camera seems to have lost permissions to camera? How do i fix that?], I kind of remembering that isuee but I don't know who it was or how it was fixed
 @Javacookies [I kind of remembering that isuee but I don't know who it was or how it was fixed], This is new and open though
 @Javacookies [I kind of remembering that isuee but I don't know who it was or how it was fixed], Them there is two of us remembering this. I am not sure  but I think to remember I run the installer over (without wipe) to get a clean installation.
 I'm not even sure if I was the one who encountered it 😅
 I'll post here if I remember
 @Danfro [Them there is two of us remembering this. I am not sure  but I think to remember …], Well, am switching channels now so that’s basically the same thing...
 I found a GitHub issue about camera permissions on Xperia, but that one seems to have solved itself without any clear solution
 So what do you guys think of flutter on ubPorts
 It runs already on Linux desktop
 someone need to port it
 maybe its a really nice solution to bring nstive feel to it
 So what does it take?
 I am sn apps developer not sure where to start though on ubports
 @YougoChats [Camera seems to have lost permissions to camera? How do i fix that?], Oneplus One?
 Yup
 [Edit] I am an android apps developer not sure where to start though on ubports
 Hello, how Is Ubuntu touch on One plus one?
[14:02] <ubptgbot> Aga was added by: Aga
 Hello, is it possible to have information like "3 unread text messages" in the circle on the block screen?
 It's possible, but not implemented to lomiri yet
 @Aga [Hello, is it possible to have information like "3 unread text messages" in the c …], not at the moment, but you can see the notificiation icon green in that case anyway
 ok
 Ubports team is focused on updating qt and system to 20.04
 @Javacookies [not at the moment, but you can see the notificiation icon green in that case any …], Its not? Isn't that just the stat circle?
 you can see that you had 2 messages sent for that day but not unread messages
 Ah hmmm, guess that's something messages app should do i suppose
 Doesn't sound too trivial now i think about it
 that sounds wonderful :) however I am not sure if I update UT correctly on the phone, in terminal I use commands "sudo apt-get update" and after that "sudo apt-get-upgrade" and when it finishes I restart the phone, are those proper steps for checking system updates?
 No those are not the proper steps
 The correct way is to check in system settingd under "updates"
 👍 thank you for advice :)
 Hi! Is there any solution for screen with rounded corners and front camera's drop?
 for notch and rounded screen not
 No "solution" yet it needs to be "fixed" in lomiri
 @nikio [Hi! Is there any solution for screen with rounded corners and front camera's dro …], someone just needs to implement something … I hate rounded corners and notches so I have no interest fixing them 😆
 I think the quickest and simplest is to add gsettings in lomiri for margins on each corners and the top
 but of course, it won't fix issies with apps
 When camera is in the middle top side of the screen icon of notifications is hidden behind this. Maybe notification in the middle of the circle could help with it? 🤔
 I don't think there will be an easy enough fix especially that the indicators are kind of complicated
 adding black bar at the top would be the easiest
 👌
 Volla phone has them so I wouldn't be surprised if someone will implement something so I guess there's hope despite my hate 😄
 or maybe it is possible to a little bit add hight to the black bar so notifications icon bottom will be visible as a stripe under camera or something like this?
 I use Xiaomi Redmi Note 7 and camera in the middle is hiding notifications in fact
 at the same time I am new to this system on the phone, about one week use so far 😀
 Have you tried swiping from the camera? It might open your notifd
 [Edit] Have you tried swiping from the camera? It might open your notifs
 [Edit] Have you tried swiping from the camera? It might open your notifs :p
 @Aga [at the same time I am new to this system on the phone, about one week use so far …], Lavended... Is too buggy, how you live with it about a week? XD
 this workaround works 😀
 XD
 do you mean that phone is buggy?
 actually you can swipe from the empty space left of the notifications icon
 Not when we have a global menu xD
 which almost never happens at the moment 😛
 #globalmenuadoption
 xD
[14:43] <ubptgbot> naakal was added by: naakal
 hey. can i install ubuntu os on Samsung GT-S3353 ?
 i want to install custom rom if it possible
 but kind of old phone
 Please consult https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io
 #letsadopttheglobalmenu :p
 @Fuseteam [#globalmenuadoption], I'll start it with my apps once Menu components works..last I tried they shows errors like not installed or not a type
 @Javacookies [I'll start it with my apps once Menu components works..last I tried they shows e …], Ohw interesting
 I would have one more question, when I called my friend from UT she told she can hear herself in her phone. I am not sure it this could be connected with the hardware or with the software, do you know maybe?
 did it happen multiple times?
 once or twice
 you said you have redmi right? … I think the port for thay device is quite new so it might be a bug in the device
 ok, yes I have Redmi Note 7, so this will remain anyway I assume, hmm
 if I am thinking correctly with some time when the device will get older with some update it will cure itself ?
 https://instagram.com/stories/___iam.tk___/2468381829679117263?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=1ttkjuzczumxj
 @Aga [do you mean that phone is buggy?], Not the phone itself, but hal. No gps, no video recording, CORNERS... :)
 ok, I understand. fortunately or not this was the only one available for me 😅
 Am i mistaking, that the install utilitity installs gsi version of port by Danct12?
 about the voice, from what my callers say, when I use headphones for phone calls, no extra sounds in the background are hearable
 @Aga [if I am thinking correctly with some time when the device will get older with so …], More that porting will need to fix it
 @nikio [Am i mistaking, that the install utilitity installs gsi version of port by Danct …], Huh good question
 @Fuseteam [More that porting will need to fix it], ok, so it could be a mechanical issue as well?
 Anybody did porting for oneplus 5??
 @Aga [ok, so it could be a mechanical issue as well?], it's probably a port specific bug
 @Dumb_fellow [Anybody did porting for oneplus 5??], the ports that are "done" are listed at devices.ubuntu-touch.io
 @Fuseteam [#letsadopttheglobalmenu :p], #letsadopttheglobalmenu and #ubportscookieday
 About the Power Off screen that I mentioned before on the Xperia X, I think it might be because in order to install a keyboard-component PR request, I needed to update some libs in the background as well, so my guess is that it somehow breaks my system.
 @Dumb_fellow [Anybody did porting for oneplus 5??], yeah, but it's work in progress
 @just_carlod [yeah, but it's work in progress], 😊👍
 @boriseto [About the Power Off screen that I mentioned before on the Xperia X, I think it m …], mine is clean but I still get reboots from time to time … what's your PR about? 😄
 @Javacookies [mine is clean but I still get reboots from time to time … what's your PR about? 😄], reboots would be fine, but a totally shut down phone is kinda  a problem for me :) … Cause I don't know when I would have to start it (sometimes it happens overnight and I might miss an alarm or something, so it isn't reliable)
 oh I see, a shutdown … I guess that's worse 😅
 his pr is about a new layout so i kind of doubt that's the cause
 I know, but it fetched random updates with unity and similar things in the background that shouldn't be installed imo. Even when ilI chose no on updates and tried to install only my package, it updated everything in the background
 it did hmmmm
 [Edit] it did? hmmmm
 if you cancel the upgrade and install just the keyboard it shouldn't update anything but the keyboard afaik 🤔
 Can I somehow see the log from terminal
 if you have no local changes there's a way to reset the rootfs if you want
 @boriseto [Can I somehow see the log from terminal], log of what?
 apt packages :)
 hmmm that i'm not sure, does apt even log what i does 🤔
 do you have local changes compared to your pr?
 @YougoChats [Well, am switching channels now so that’s basically the same thing...], Camera on oneplus one on stable works ok
 @Fuseteam [do you have local changes compared to your pr?], nope
 then maybe you can reset your rootfs to see if it's really due to your test installation
 do you have ssh access?
 Nope, but can't I just type the commands in the terminal on the phone?
 Or through adb shell?
 not sure if you can do it through adb shell
 but has to be done remotely
 Well then no, I will wait for the next ota or return for a while on Android again to make it usable until I buy a new device for everyday use
 I just need to update the PR and get it ready for the next ota :)
 ota may not do it but rerunning it through the ubport installer will also do it
 @boriseto [I just need to update the PR and get it ready for the next ota :)], ah right hehe
[15:41] <ubptgbot> Odig3 was added by: Odig3
 @greenspand [I am an android apps developer not sure where to start though on ubports], FluffyChat is being developed as flutter, so maybe a focus would be to bring that back to UT?
 If you join the FluffyChat group on Matrix, Krille may have already given it some thought
 yeah flutter on ut would facilitate that
 @Fuseteam [yeah flutter on ut would facilitate that], Looks like some efforts have been through the following project . Not sure if it works.I have not tried it through : https://github.com/therecipe/flutter
[16:44] <ubptgbot> Priscilla Faulk was added by: Priscilla Faulk
 @Sanath [Looks like some efforts have been through the following project . Not sure if it …], cool
 @YougoChats [Camera seems to have lost permissions to camera? How do i fix that?], seems that https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/1631
[17:24] <ubptgbot> Mani Kandan was added by: Mani Kandan
[17:25] <ubptgbot> SkleznevD was added by: SkleznevD
[17:26] <ubptgbot> <Mani Kandan> Is passible to install Ubuntu port in lenovo A5 and other mobile models
 you need to port it first
[17:44] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @Javacookies [here's the one sent before,it works for me], So I confirm the file works perfectly on the Vollaphone! Thank you!
[18:05] <ubptgbot> rikmac was added by: rikmac
[18:25] <ubptgbot> <Priscilla Faulk> Amazing!🤩  Maybe you can get free  CRYPTO too👍👍 … CHECK 👉👉👉https://bit.ly/34w42Z5
 @Priscilla Faulk [Amazing!🤩  Maybe you can get free  CRYPTO too👍👍 … CHECK 👉👉👉https://bit.ly/34 …], SPAM
 @Flohack
[18:36] <ubptgbot> <Priscilla Faulk> Amaz!!!🤩  Maybe you can get free  Bitcoin or Ethereum too👍👍 … LOOK IT 👉👉👉https://bit.ly/3ay3HJ9
[19:10] <ubptgbot> ghalibansari was added by: ghalibansari
 Hi folks, ever since updating to OTA-15, Ive noticed a few changes on my Nexus 5.  I cant get my Hotspot to feature to work, also my bluetooth headset no longer works (lots of noise when the recipient answers the call, also I feel like my battery isnt lasting as long.  Is this just me, would you prefer I discussed this somewhere else?
[20:19] <ubptgbot> Donatas was added by: Donatas
 Who is responsible for the naming of the channels on the devices? … For example, for the Xperia we have two development channels and I know one is armh and the other is arm64, but not sure which one is witch
[21:23] <ubptgbot> animeSighless was added by: animeSighless
 @boriseto [Who is responsible for the naming of the channels on the devices? … For example, f …], On the installer the community devel is 32 bit. All other channels are 64bit.
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/IfmCCK8f.png
 @Danfro [On the installer the community devel is 32 bit. All other channels are 64bit.], And here?
 @boriseto [And here?], Gambling. 😉 I don't know anything that would tell us.
 considering this and that and the timeline shift that happened i'm guessing the bottom one is 32 bit
 Use the installer. It does the same.
 [Edit] considering this and that and the timeline shift that happened i'm guessing the bottom one is 32 bit :P
 Got it
 @Fuseteam [considering this and that and the timeline shift that happened i'm guessing the …], That I would have guessed too. But there is still some risk.☺
 yeah 😂installer is deffo the safest
 Well RC did the trick for now
 @boriseto [Got it], Just checked on my device. The bottom one is 32bit. Too simple a solution.
 Thats what I am on.
 How did you check?
 Just had a look what is checked on my device.
 he's on 32 bit and the bottom one is highlighted i'm guessing
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/F4rTS8OM.webp
 Exactly
 I like the OS and want it on my phone
 @BIGJAY2000 [I like the OS and want it on my phone], https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io is the list of supported devices. if it's not there, you'll have to port it yourself (there's a link in the block about devices not on the page, to the documentation), or wait for someone else to maintain a port


 So lineageos makes the nexus 5 feel like a brand new phone.
 And the Bluetooth bug is gone
 Nice
 Finally some good news for once for me.
 https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2017/07/adobe-flash-update.html
 First Malcom Young now Della Reese
 http://people.com/music/della-reese-dead-at-86-touched-by-an-angel-singer/
 https://www.humblebundle.com/store/brutal-legend
 Free game


[07:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3085 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[07:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3085 Pending binary packages
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[02:54] <ahoneybun> valorie, ping
[04:35] <valorie> hello, ahoneybun
[04:35] <valorie> why do you keep sending me contentless pings, and then not responding when I answer?
[06:15] <soee> good morning
[06:48] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:27] <Riddell> weird email du jour, whatever do I say to this? http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ubuntu.pdf
[08:34] <Riddell> !testers | beta 2 candidates ↑
[08:34] <Riddell> !testers | mesa 10.3 upgrade testing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KchGJ6d50Knx9hGS7MvSRKhId-yBMOpPpUoihKHyJm0/edit#gid=0 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1364003
[08:34] <soee> uo oh :) beta2
[09:03] <valorie> that is one drunk confused person, Riddell
[09:04] <Riddell> probably he was a yes voter, I hear they're all drunk and confused now
[09:04] <valorie> lol
[09:04] <valorie> except you?
[09:05] <valorie> argh, too tired
[09:05] <valorie> niters all
[09:05] <Riddell> I accept it was for the best, we need england to sponge off their benefits and having the biggest oil reserves in europe is just no asset to the economy at all
[09:06] <Riddell> night valorie
[09:06] <valorie> my anti-war president is now bombing 5+ countries
[09:06] <valorie> we live in upside-down world
[09:32] <debfx> indeed, nowadays you need to order drone strikes to win the nobel peace price or something
[10:23] <Riddell> seems like release team wants this mesa update in so I'm going to test for problems I found yesterday and see if it's really mesa at fault
[10:23] <Riddell> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KchGJ6d50Knx9hGS7MvSRKhId-yBMOpPpUoihKHyJm0/edit#gid=0
[10:23] <Riddell> but any help appreciated, I only have intel
[11:51] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:00] <Riddell> I tested the mesa update and couldn't find any problem related to mesa so I've changed to a +0 with it, if anyone can find good reasons to block it best speak up toot sweet bug 1364003
[15:12] <Riddell> apachelogger: can you get bzr fast-export to work?
[15:12] <Riddell> I get bug 1314771
[15:45] <apachelogger> Riddell simply do a clean import if it gives u trouble
[15:48] <Riddell> I worked it out
[15:48] <Riddell> but I won't have time to finish this today
[15:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: should I tell nim I need to work tomorrow morning which is nominally a barcelona holiday or do it on thursday?
[15:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: thursday
[15:55] <apachelogger> holidays be holidays
[16:01] <Riddell> apachelogger: well there's not much to do it's just manual merging a few of the ones that are already in debian then importing the rest in batch (I've done up to tier1 already)
[16:02] <Riddell> I'll take my laptop home and see if I can do it sometime soon
[16:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: I am happy as long as we have the imports in debian by the end of the week
[16:02] <Riddell> then we have to update the scripts
[16:03] <Riddell> then we can work out the tricky part of how to keep pino happy with the changelogs
[16:04] <Riddell> but I think I worked out the sddm issue, just needs a config file to set the minimumVT
[16:04] <Riddell> so life is good
[16:04]  * Riddell out
[17:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: script adjustment is why I want it this week, so we can twiddle scripts next week and hope everything will be fine by the time kf5.3 comes around
[17:10] <apachelogger> changelogs are going to be an interesting problem
[17:34] <soee> hi, what is teh plasma 5.0.2 status ?:)
[22:07] <valorie> soee: Status 5.0.2 http://goo.gl/dksyRj
[22:07] <valorie> from the /topic
[22:08] <ScottK> Bugfix release of quassel out.  I'll package it up as soon as the beta is out.
[22:18] <ahoneybun> valorie, hey sorry for all the pings
[22:18] <valorie> whassup, ahoneybun?
[22:18] <ahoneybun> valorie, http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=9755
[22:18] <ahoneybun> http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/092014/fossetcon2014_02.jpg
[22:20] <valorie> very cool
[22:20] <ahoneybun> yep
[22:20] <valorie> are you going to blog about it as well?
[22:21] <ahoneybun> valorie, don't really blog
[22:21]  * ahoneybun is rocking a Nexus 4 now with Ubuntu (currently)
[22:21] <valorie> that's unfortunate!
[22:21] <valorie> we need more writers
[22:22] <ahoneybun> og
[22:22] <ahoneybun> oh
[22:22] <valorie> lol at the photo -- everyone is smiling, but you appear to be giving the speaker the stinkeye
[22:22] <ahoneybun> it is just that I never had anything important to write about
[22:22] <ahoneybun> yea I know...
[22:23] <ahoneybun> I'm trying to get mobile data on this darn thing
[22:25] <ScottK> "I'm calling from the technical department of the Windows operating system and I'm calling about your computer."
[22:25] <ScottK> ^^^ phone call I just got.
[22:26] <valorie> huh
[22:26] <valorie> sounds like spam to me!
[22:26] <ScottK> It was a scam call.
[22:26] <ScottK> Yeah.
[22:26] <valorie> I've been getting weird calls to my cell lately
[22:26] <valorie> that reminds me to look up the number
[22:27]  * yofel only gets calls about lotteries and surveys... soooo boring -.-
[22:27]  * ahoneybun gets no call
[22:28] <valorie> first one is some kind of political survey, lots of people reporting it
[22:29] <valorie> same weird stuff with the second one
[22:29] <valorie> gah!
[22:35] <valorie> blocked
[22:44]  * ahoneybun kinda wants to jump back to android
[22:46] <valorie> ahoneybun: I'm sure there's an app for that....
[22:47] <ahoneybun> lol
[22:56] <ahoneybun> or command
[22:57] <sgclark> evening all
[22:58] <sgclark> valorie looks like I got a delayed bug, been sick all day :( perhaps the weather change.
[22:59] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
[22:59] <valorie> so sorry to hear that
[22:59] <valorie> I'm just recovering from the last vestiges of a nasty cold
[22:59] <valorie> and finally feeling human again
[23:07] <sgclark> :( it is no fun.


[09:47] <pavlushka> Afternoon Kilos!
[09:47] <Kilos> hi pavlushka
[09:47] <pavlushka> Hoow are you Kilos?
[09:48] <Kilos> ok ty and you?
[09:49] <pavlushka> Kilos: me good, ty, :)
[10:12] <pavlushka> oops! powercuts


[21:50] <ahoneybun> mhall119 is there going to be an UbuCon at SELF then?
[22:02] <mhall119> ahoneybun: not this year, no
[22:40] <ahoneybun> darn
[22:40] <ahoneybun> I guess more time for self then
[22:40] <ahoneybun> mhall119 will we have a booth?
[23:41] <mhall119> ahoneybun: I hope to know tomorrow
[23:41] <ahoneybun> be weird to have Jose coming without it
[23:42] <ahoneybun> since he is coming then he must have a talk happening
[23:51] <mhall119> ahoneybun: yeah, he's talking about juju I believe


[01:46] <ejat> hi all ..
[01:56] <cprofitt> bkerensa: I have a UEFI laptop, but had to switch UEFI off
[01:57] <bkerensa> cprofitt: Yeahs its weird some people are saying UEFI is blocking 11.10 but 11.04 worked fine so I assume possible bug
[02:33] <jcastro> test
[02:34] <jcastro> mhall119: around?
[02:36] <cjohnston> jcastro: he has gone to bed
[02:36] <cjohnston> did you lock down summit by chance?
[02:45] <mhall119> jcastro: whats up?
[02:46] <jcastro> I needed the url to the summit ical but I found it
[02:46] <jcastro> looks like the guidebook import is broken, but it's not us
[02:46] <jcastro> so I sent them a mail
[02:46] <jcastro> I just wanted to confirm that it wasn't us. :)
[02:46] <cjohnston> what specifically is broken?
[02:47] <mhall119> ok
[02:47] <cjohnston> mine seems to be looking pretty ok
[06:53] <popey> Morning!
[06:55] <bkerensa> popey: Good Morning :D
[07:02] <AlanBell> morning<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:25] <nigelb> Morning!
[07:25] <nigelb> AlanBell: heh
[07:25] <nigelb> I thought he'd be<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:26] <AlanBell> think he was going to namespace squat on alan @ canonical.com
[07:27] <nigelb> heh
[07:27] <nigelb> Probably.
[07:29] <bkerensa> anyone know what barabadine.canonical.com is? I noticed Ubuntu seems to ping that hostname quite a bit
[07:29] <bkerensa> :D
[07:29] <bkerensa> like 20 > requests a day according to my router log
[07:30] <nigelb> It could be popcorn or the census thing
[07:34] <AlanBell> census, or a keyserver of some kind
[07:37] <AlanBell> it is  one of the things that can reply if you ping keyserver.ubuntu.com
[07:38] <AlanBell> probably checking PPA keys or something when you update
[07:41] <nigelb> AlanBell: \o/ ubingo
[07:41] <nigelb> Can we do multiple cards? :D
[07:41]  * nigelb will try two cards this time.
[07:42] <AlanBell> just updated it with a link to the live stream
[08:20] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:20] <nigelb> czajkowski: Isn't it awfully early?
[08:21] <czajkowski> yes
[08:21] <nigelb> Ouch
[08:21] <nigelb> Morning!
[08:21] <czajkowski> meh used to waking up early
[08:21] <nigelb> ah
[08:22] <nigelb> I haven't woken up around 4 in a long time. Although it does sound a lot like bed time ^-^
[08:27] <czajkowski> its why rooming with pen works out well we both usually wake up early
[08:27] <AlanBell> pen get in OK?
[08:32] <czajkowski> yup
[08:32] <popey> i have no idea who I am rooming with
[08:32] <popey> poor them
[08:34] <czajkowski> popey: irlando airport has free wifi, just opne a browswer and click yes and you're sorted.
[08:34] <czajkowski> *orlando
[08:38] <popey> yay
[08:38] <popey> shouldn't you be in bed?
[08:40] <czajkowski> I am
[08:40] <czajkowski> with laptop
[08:41] <czajkowski> am sorely tmepted to wipe this machine this week and do a clean isntall
[11:09] <popey> moo
[11:10] <czajkowski> popey: boo
[11:10] <czajkowski> popey: you on zee plane yet
[11:11] <popey> nope
[11:11] <popey> delayed
[11:11] <czajkowski> bugger
[11:12] <Pendulum> popey: are you on a direct flight?
[11:12] <popey> yes
[11:12] <popey> it's having 'unscheduled maintenance'
[11:12] <Pendulum> :(
[11:12] <Pendulum> if it makes you feel any better the last time I was on a flight that had that, we got off the ground (although late) and did make it safely :)
[11:14] <popey> estimated take off in 1.25 hours
[11:14] <head_victim> Always better to do your maintenance while still on the ground I say.
[11:14] <Pendulum> at least they're giving you an estimate takeoff
[11:14] <Pendulum> for a while yesterday my flight was just listed as "delayed"
[11:15] <Pendulum> most of the delay was "too many planes scheduled to come into the same gate"
[11:16] <Pendulum> the first of which was very late because ZOMG Snow
[11:16] <Pendulum> I can't believe I just used "ZOMG", someone shoot me
[11:17]  * czajkowski shoots pen
[11:17] <czajkowski> ohhh
[11:17] <czajkowski> I've just remembered sometong
[11:17] <czajkowski> TAFFEY!!!!!!!!!
[11:17] <Pendulum> hahaha
[11:17] <Pendulum> how was the maple stuff?
[11:17] <czajkowski> yummy
[11:17] <czajkowski> just nipping to kitech to get one
[11:17] <czajkowski> STARVING
[11:18] <Pendulum> what time does breakfast actually start? we can always go early
[11:18] <czajkowski> 6:30
[11:19] <nigelb> popey: jamie also on your flight?
[11:19] <popey> yes
[11:19] <popey> i am sat next to him
[11:19] <nigelb> heh, your tweets are right together :)
[11:20] <czajkowski> maple.syrup.taffey++
[11:20] <nigelb> popey: Now that its delayed you might want it really delayed so you can listen to the plenary from the airport :P
[11:25] <jussi> mhall119: nigelb ping! I have an idea for summit. :)
[11:25] <mhall119> jussi: put it in the blueprint
[11:25] <jussi> mhall119: which is where?
[11:26] <nigelb> jussi: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-summit
[11:26] <nigelb> jussi: Remote this time? :)
[11:26] <mhall119> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-summit
[11:26] <jussi> mhall119: I tell you it also: I would love to have the marker line like for example gcal has, on the day view which tells where the day is at currently
[11:26] <mhall119> ah, nigelb beat me to it
[11:28] <jussi> mhall119: nigelb, thoughts?
[11:29] <nigelb> Nice idea. I don't know how complicated it is to implement though.
[11:29] <jussi> nigelb: and yes, remote this time
[11:29] <nigelb> :)
[11:29] <jussi> (baby is too close to coming out)
[11:30] <czajkowski> hmm no bp for the leadership session which means I cant mark myself as going and it clashes with something else :/
[11:30] <mhall119> czajkowski: I think cjohnston was working on that last night
[11:31] <czajkowski> ah ok
[11:31] <czajkowski> as of about 20 mins ago no bp
[11:31] <nigelb> Hrm, also rescheduler might get turned off somewhere around today.
[11:31] <nigelb> So you'll have to request something to be moved manually.
[11:32] <czajkowski> nods
[11:32] <czajkowski> figured leadership would have had a bp given the focus of it
[11:32] <czajkowski> anyways breakfast
[11:32] <czajkowski> toodles
[11:33] <nigelb> which day is leadership summit?
[11:44] <jussi> @now orlando
[11:44] <jussi> bah, ubot2 has no @now :(
[11:44] <nigelb> yeah
[11:45] <jussi> oh meh, orlando isnt even in the list. big city in same timezone or timezone name pls?
[11:45] <nigelb> New York
[11:45] <jussi> [13:45:39] <jussi> @now new york
[11:45] <jussi> [13:45:40] <ubottu> Current time in America/New_York: October 31 2011, 07:45:39
[11:46] <nigelb> sounds right
[11:46] <jussi> right, so things start at 9.
[11:46] <nigelb> Yep, another 1:15 hours to go.
[11:46] <jussi> bah, Ill be in a meeting. probably gonna have to skip a session or 2.
[11:47] <jussi> nigelb: I almost wrote [nigelbabu] instead of [summit-hackers] but I wasnt so mean :
[11:47] <jussi> :P
[11:47] <nigelb> jussi: heh
[11:47] <nigelb> we generally put everything sumit-hackers
[11:47] <nigelb> and assign it when starting to work on something.
[11:49] <jussi> yeah, I figured
[11:49] <jussi> but seriously, even if you just hightlight the current session line that would be helpful
[11:51] <jussi> In my tiny mind its simple, check time, look for sessions on at $time, highlight those. (but thats just me being a non programmer) :D
[11:51] <nigelb> jussi: so the thing is - we'd like to innovate how we do the rendering of the schedule.
[11:59] <sense> jcastro: That Android app doesn't show correct times if you're outside EDT!
[12:01] <akgraner> jcastro, you around?
[12:02] <sense> The schedule looks empty, btw. Is everything scheduled already?
[12:13] <head_victim> I really should read emails better, jcastro I just accepted Ubuntu Members to the etherpad.
[12:14] <head_victim> I thought I was getting it AS a ubuntu member :/
[12:15] <nigelb> bah
[12:15] <head_victim> Bad or intended result?
[12:16] <nigelb> intended
[12:16] <nigelb> head_victim: If you hadn't accepted, I'd have done it :)
[12:17] <head_victim> nigelb: that is a weight off my mind. I really have to stop "I'll just clear my inbox before bed" routines
[12:17] <nigelb> hehe
[12:17] <head_victim> We'll pretend that's how it was meant to happen
[12:17] <nigelb> head_victim: I bah'd at a bunch of emails landing in my inbox
[12:17] <nigelb> about 10 or so
[12:18] <head_victim> I'd just cleared it when I got about 5 in the last refresh. That was number 3.
[12:19] <nigelb> heh
[12:24] <head_victim> Ah well
[12:24]  * head_victim apologises again for the quick click and heads to bed
[12:25] <alourie> hey Ubunteros
[12:25] <alourie> have a great UDS-P!
[12:25] <alourie> a lot of great sessions are there...
[12:25]  * alourie hopes to get to some of them remotely
[13:02] <jcastro> cjohnston: YO
[13:02] <jcastro> DONE
[13:03] <jcastro> DONE!!!!
[13:03] <nigelb> jcastro: ohai
[13:03] <czajkowski> ALOHA
[13:03] <cjohnston> jcastro: turn of the auto scheduler please
[13:03] <jcastro> I don't know how to do that
[13:03] <Pendulum> There's No Snow Here!
[13:03] <cjohnston> do I stil have access jcastro ?
[13:03] <nigelb> cjohnston: you need Daviey or IS.
[13:03] <cjohnston> nigelb: its a cron?
[13:04] <nigelb> yeah
[13:04] <cjohnston> ok..
[13:04] <cjohnston> ill work on it
[13:06] <cjohnston> jcastro: does Arwen have access?
[13:07] <jcastro> yes
[13:07] <jcastro> cjohnston: haha you are on the screen
[13:07] <jcastro> haha.
[13:08] <cjohnston> i know
[13:08] <cjohnston> thanks jono
[13:08] <czajkowski> cjohnston: pretty photo
[13:08] <nigelb> haha
[13:08] <nigelb> cjohnston: \o/
[13:08] <czajkowski> you look very happy as is itnet7
[13:09] <jcastro> cjohnston: you looked AMAZING.
[13:09] <nigelb> heh
[13:09] <jcastro> everyone notice rikki had a beer in hand?
[13:09]  * czajkowski hugs jcastro
[13:09] <ejat> aloha ..
[13:09] <nigelb> jcastro: YES
[13:10] <jcastro> cjohnston: hey
[13:10] <jcastro> design theater this morning too?
[13:14] <mhall119> jcastro: it is at 3
[13:14] <cjohnston> jcastro: ill work on it
[13:16] <cjohnston> jcastro: the one this afternoon was removed.;
[13:16] <cjohnston> i believe the time was per request
[13:17] <jcastro> ah ok
[13:17] <cjohnston> i dont like the time tho
[13:17] <cjohnston> and the rescheduler has been turned off jcastro
[13:17] <jcastro> \o/
[13:59] <czajkowski> so frigging thirsty
[13:59] <cjohnston> theres drinks in the back czajkowski
[13:59] <czajkowski> wanna get one and bring it to me :D
[13:59] <czajkowski> I'll be ever so nice
[13:59] <Pendulum> cjohnston: wanna bring some up to us :P
[14:00] <cjohnston> lol
[14:00] <Pendulum> well I can't exactly sneak quietly and I'm blocking Laura in
[14:04] <AlanBell> can you ask the camera to pan round the room at the end so we can see everyone
[14:05] <czajkowski> it's right beside us
[14:05] <Pendulum> they just took it down
[14:05] <Pendulum> or took one down
[14:08] <AlanBell> still going
[14:21] <Pendulum> who should I be telling people to poke if they need pad access?
[14:21] <Pendulum> cjohnston: ^^
[14:22] <AlanBell> Pendulum: me or nigelb
[14:22] <nigelb> who doesn't have access?
[14:22] <nigelb> I just approved the last bunch
[14:22] <AlanBell> they need to have a launchpad account and be a member of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[14:22] <nigelb> Right.
[14:22] <AlanBell> which most people are already through included teams
[14:23] <nigelb> I'm actively approving requests that have come in
[14:23] <Pendulum> are you keeping on top of the discussion in -uds?
[14:25] <AlanBell> yeah
[14:37] <cjohnston> AlanBell: we have 18k members now.. im an admin as well now
[14:38] <AlanBell> yup
[14:38] <cjohnston> if anyone can think of other teams to add for pad access, please let me know
[14:39] <czajkowski> cjohnston: is it possible to add locoteams
[14:39] <czajkowski> or is that too wide a criteria ?
[14:40] <czajkowski> say approved locoteams ?
[14:40] <cjohnston> czajkowski: it doesnt seem so because its a delegated team
[14:40] <AlanBell> it is added czajkowski
[14:40] <czajkowski> ggrand
[14:40] <AlanBell> cjohnston: it isn't a subteam, but it is an alternative accepted team in the signon
[14:41] <cjohnston> hmm
[14:41] <cjohnston> ok
[14:41] <AlanBell> ~linaro and ~linaro-community as well
[14:42] <AlanBell> basically the only people needing to join the group should be people who have just created a launchpad account for the purpose of getting to the pad
[14:49] <cjohnston> czajkowski: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-government-campaigning
[14:51] <AlanBell> orly?
[14:52] <AlanBell> is that scheduled?
[14:59] <cjohnston> AlanBell: its new
[15:00] <AlanBell> cool
[15:00] <AlanBell> get Amanda Brock along to it if it gets scheduled
[15:05] <czajkowski> cjohnston: has it beed added to the schedule #?
[15:06] <cjohnston> czajkowski: dont know
[15:06] <czajkowski> dear etherpad stop logging me out
[15:06] <cjohnston> lol
[15:06] <cjohnston> file an RT
[15:07] <cjohnston> not yet czajkowski.. talk to michelle if it isnt scheduled by the end of the session
[15:08] <czajkowski> dear cjohnston get it to stop it reconnecting
[15:08] <cjohnston> czajkowski: I can't do anything about it.. thats an ISD thing.. its not even a part of summit
[15:10] <nigelb> jcastro: I'm fixing the icecast url on particpate page which is broken
[15:19] <nigelb> jcastro: ohai! Updated uds.ubuntu.com for correct icecast url.
[15:19] <jcastro> lolz
[15:19] <nigelb> :)
[16:20] <doctormo-web> *yawn* So, anything happening this week?
[16:20] <nigelb> Small event down in florida
[16:25] <mhall119> lol
[16:25]  * czajkowski tickles mhall119
[16:25] <ejat> :)
[16:26] <mhall119> tickles now huh?
[16:27] <doctormo-web> nigelb: Are you down there this week?
[16:27] <nigelb> doctormo-web: Nope
[16:28] <doctormo-web> nigelb: How's it going?
[16:28] <nigelb> doctormo-web: pretty good!
[16:28] <nigelb> The timing this time is pretty awesome.
[16:28] <nigelb> I can come home from work and start UDS sessions
[16:29] <doctormo-web> yeah it's pretty rotten for me, I can take the baby night shift from 1am to 7pm like I did last night and sleep away the morning sessions.
[16:29] <nigelb> heh
[16:29] <nigelb> How's the baby :)
[16:29] <doctormo-web> She is _so_ cute!
[16:29] <nigelb> :)
[16:29] <czajkowski> this isa good session
[16:30] <czajkowski> wedged packed thank feck for air con
[16:30] <doctormo-web> nigelb: What sessions are you looking forward to?
[16:30] <Pendulum> this is a very good session
[16:30] <nigelb> doctormo-web: There's a good set on wednesday
[16:30] <nigelb> today there's a bunch of debian ones 'm looking forward to.
[16:30] <doctormo-web> Pendulum: hrum? The lunch break session?
[16:31] <mhall119> lunch is in 30
[16:31] <nigelb> doctormo-web: DST
[16:31] <nigelb> Turn your clocks back :)
[16:31] <nigelb> Or ahead
[16:31] <nigelb> or wait
[16:31] <nigelb> US didn't move.
[16:31] <mhall119> no
[16:31] <mhall119> stop confusing the man
[16:31]  * nigelb got confused with doctormo-web being in the UK.
[16:32] <cjohnston> nigelb: are you going to make it to the new design guidelines session
[16:32] <nigelb> cjohnston: today/
[16:32] <mhall119> cjohnston: that's at 3pm right?
[16:32] <czajkowski> in the deisnging and creating ubuntu experiences
[16:32] <czajkowski> which is really good
[16:33] <czajkowski> *designing
[16:33] <cjohnston> yes
[16:33] <czajkowski> I like the User experience session
[16:33] <nigelb> cjohnston: I can make it.
[16:33] <nigelb> I have tomorrow off
[16:33] <cjohnston> awesomeness
[16:34] <mhall119> AWESOMENESS!
[16:34] <mhall119> oh wait, she really can kick me now...
[16:34] <doctormo-web> czajkowski: What's the channel?
[16:35] <czajkowski> I will kick you both
[16:35] <czajkowski> doctormo-web: check the schedule
[16:35] <czajkowski> not sure
[16:35] <czajkowski> sorry
[16:35] <nigelb> There's only one response to that - AWESOMENESS :D
[16:35] <czajkowski> bonaire5 I think
[16:35]  * nigelb runs
[16:36] <doctormo-web> Bonaire 5, what's the translation into irc?
[16:36] <doctormo-web> Let me look it up
[16:36] <czajkowski> it's nearly over
[16:36] <nigelb> doctormo-web: #ubuntu-uds-bonaire5
[16:37] <doctormo-web> Ah ok, so czajkowski what design thing was really awesome?
[16:38] <czajkowski> this session doctormo-web
[17:49] <bkerensa> Morning all
[17:49] <bkerensa> :D
[18:29] <doctormo-web> Hello bkerensa
[18:29] <bkerensa> hi doctormo-web
[18:30] <doctormo-web> At UDS this week? following any sessions?
[18:35] <bkerensa> :D
[18:35]  * bkerensa is not at UDS :) I might pop in virtually though
[19:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[19:41]  * ejat pokes czajkowski
[19:44] <dholbach> ejat, she's in Bonaire 3
[19:47] <alourie> what's a current UDS time?
[19:48] <czajkowski> why are we poking me
[19:49] <czajkowski> ejat: yes?
[20:06] <cjohnston> czajkowski: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-government-campaigning
[20:07] <mhall119> cjohnston: going to become a lobbyist?
[20:07] <cjohnston> lol
[20:07] <cjohnston> not my meeting
[20:29] <dholbach> pleia2, time/date update well spotted :)
[20:32] <pleia2> I was trying to use it myself and was ..hey wait!
[20:32] <pleia2> :)
[20:36] <dholbach> pleia2, but it's going to be 17:00 over here in Orlando, right?
[20:37] <pleia2> dholbach: right
[20:37] <dholbach> ok


[10:36] <frankban> lazyPower: ping
[13:30] <lazyPower> frankban: pong
[13:32] <frankban> lazyPower: it seems that the services framework doesn't automatically handle setting data on established relations when a relevant config is changed on a service, correct?
[13:33] <lazyPower> Ah, I'm not sure. I'm not terribly familiar with the services framework. cory_fu would be a good candidate to answer that question, let me see if i can get him in here
[13:33] <frankban> lazyPower: FWIW I am writing a redis charm with the services framework, it would be awesome if you'll be able to take a look at it when it's ready.
[13:34] <lazyPower> !!
[13:34] <lazyPower> awesome!
[13:34] <lazyPower> thanks cory_fu.
[13:34] <cory_fu> lazyPower: np
[13:34] <lazyPower> repost: <frankban> lazyPower: it seems that the services framework doesn't automatically handle setting data on established relations when a relevant config is changed on a service, correct?
[13:36] <cory_fu> frankban: The provide_data method on relations in the provided_data block is called for every hook that is handled by manage().  As long as that function is returning data from hookenv.config() or what-have-you, and the config-changed hook is also handled by manage(), it should reflect changes on established relations
[13:36] <frankban> lazyPower: and also FYI, some doc improvements would help there, especially re relation contexts. The redis charm I am working on will support master-slave relations of two services deployed from the same charm: I have a solution but I am not sure if it's idiomatic
[13:36] <cory_fu> That said, the provides side of the framework is decidedly lacking polish, for sure.
[13:37] <lazyPower> frankban: charms that change behavior on role make sense. we have quite a few of those already
[13:37] <frankban> cory_fu: in provide_data relation_set is called only if if re.match(r'{}-relation-(joined|changed)'.format(provider.name), hook_name)
[13:37] <cory_fu> One issue is that it happens before the data_ready callbacks are fired, so can't react to changes caused by those callbacks.  Another is that it blocks sending data if the data doesn't fulfill the relation class's required_keys.  Both of those are bugs
[13:38] <cory_fu> frankban: Agh.  Yes, you are right.  That is also a bug
[13:38] <frankban> lazyPower: I know is idiomatic in Juju, I am not sure my implementation is idiomatic in the services framework
[13:40] <cory_fu> lazyPower: Personally, I despise that pattern.  I feel like it makes the charms more complex and harder to understand, and it makes them more difficult to deploy, since it inherently makes the relations ambiguous 100% of the time
[13:41] <frankban> cory_fu: but it also avoids a lot of code duplication between very similar charms
[13:41] <lazyPower> cory_fu: i disagree that it makes sense to have 2 charms that duplicate the logic, when all you're doing is updating configuration 80% of the time
[13:41] <cory_fu> Obviously, there are some benefits, but my personal opinion is that factoring shared code into a separate, shared library is a better solution.  At least, to the cases I've encountered so far.
[13:42] <frankban> cory_fu: in my case, for the redis charm, everything is shared, metadata, config, hooks. Establishing a master-slave relation means adding just a single line in the redis conf
[13:43] <hatch> what is the services framework?
[13:43] <cory_fu> frankban: Fair enough.  That is certainly a more extreme case of overlap than what I had encountered
[13:43] <frankban> hatch: https://pythonhosted.org/charmhelpers/examples/services.html
[13:44] <hatch> frankban: so this allows people to stop using those massive 'hook.py' files
[13:44] <hatch> ?
[13:44] <frankban> cory_fu: I handle that with the services framweork by defining two services in the manager, both actually pointing to the same init service
[13:45] <frankban> hatch: yes, but nothing actually forced people to do that ;-)
[13:46] <hatch> reading this closer it almost seems like this services framework encourages putting the hooks all in the same file
[13:46] <cory_fu> hatch: The main benefit is that it gives a way to describe more complex cross-dependencies.  For example, a service that depends on both a database and a caching service before it can start up can not meaningfully make any decisions based on a single hook invocation.  It has to make decisions based on a combination of states.  The services framework was the first attempt at addressing that
[13:46] <hatch> cory_fu: ahh that's an interesting issue which I haven't yet run into myself
[13:46] <lazyPower> right, the reduces a ton of the guard code i've been writing in ansible to achieve the same goal
[13:47] <cory_fu> However, the syntax is unwieldy and breaks down in some areas.  So bcsaller and I are working on the next approach to the solution, using a more reactive pattern
[13:47] <hatch> you use ansible on purpose? :P
[13:47] <cory_fu> hatch: There's a fair chance you actually have and didn't realize it. ;)
[13:47] <hatch> haha
[13:47] <hatch> what do you mean by a more reactive pattern?
[13:47] <hatch> can you give me an example?
[13:47] <cory_fu> It can actually come up with even a single relation, if there are also config options that influence code paths as well
[13:49] <cory_fu> Well, the idea behind the reactive pattern is to talk about things in terms of states that can be triggered and reacted to, instead of just a list of dependencies.
[13:49] <cory_fu> The rough example that we've been working from looks about like this: https://gist.github.com/bcsaller/788da7aee582f5dff659
[13:50] <cory_fu> With the relation being handled by something like this: https://gist.github.com/bcsaller/6fb14c5b39b2219aadf9
[13:50] <hatch> ahhh interesting
[13:51] <cory_fu> We think that being able to define semantically relevant states (and allow the charms to define their own, for higher-order behavior and dependencies) will allow for more expressive descriptions of what is required to do a given thing
[13:51] <hatch> yeah that makes sense from my limited experience
[13:52] <cory_fu> It also gets away from having to have a big service description block that the current framework requires, and brings it back down to simpler decorators that people are more familiar with
[13:52] <cory_fu> I'm also doing everything I can to make this available via the CLI so that bash (and other language) charms can benefit from it directly, as well
[13:53] <cory_fu> For example, in bash, a similar reactive block would look something like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11245268/
[13:54] <frankban> cory_fu: looks interesting
[13:54] <frankban> lazyPower, cory_fu: thanks for your help
[13:54] <cory_fu> Or, if you prefer: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11245287/
[13:55] <cory_fu> frankban: :)  I hope that it pans out as well as we're thinking it will.
[13:55] <lazyPower> it was all cory_fu :)
[13:57] <frankban> cory_fu: as I mentioned, the documentations lacks a little bit for the relations part, and I also needed to handle the relating-to-self use case, and I ended up reading the code
[13:57] <cory_fu> The reactive pattern is also tied tightly in with the idea of relation "stubs," which is basically our approach to codifying interface protocols in actual code that can be used directly by charms, so that charm authors don't have to reimplement the client side of the mysql relation, for example, every time, by looking at the source of the mysql charm
[13:58] <frankban> cory_fu: that's a great idea for not reimplementing relations over and over
[13:58] <cory_fu> frankban: Yeah, the framework isn't really constructed to support self-relations all that well, but I really need to fix those three issues with the provide_data methods which would help, I think
[13:58] <cory_fu> It is a great idea.  I wish it had been mine.  ;)
[14:35] <cory_fu> frankban: Does https://code.launchpad.net/~johnsca/charm-helpers/provide-data-fix/+merge/259630 seem like it will address some of your issues with the framework?
[14:42] <frankban> cory_fu: looking
[14:48] <frankban> cory_fu: if isinstance(provider, type): perhaps if callable(provider)?
[14:49] <cory_fu> Well, providers need to be RelationContext classes, so that they have the .name attribute.  Before that change, I think it required that they be instantiated.  I might remove that line entirely
[14:50] <frankban> cory_fu: also I am not sure about whether remote_service can be useful, given that the service name is arbitrary
[14:51] <cory_fu> The idea for that was for things like mysql, that create the database name based on the remote service name
[14:51] <frankban> cory_fu: I see
[14:53] <frankban> cory_fu: those changes look good
[14:53] <frankban> cory_fu: estimated release time?
[14:54] <cory_fu> I'm working on getting a review now
[14:56] <frankban> cory_fu: great ty!
[14:57] <cory_fu> I can't guarantee that it will be merged immediately, but I will keep pushing for it.