[07:22] <mup> PR operator#755 opened: Typing utils <Created by PietroPasotti> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/755>
[14:51] <mup> PR operator#756 opened: Typing for model.py <Created by PietroPasotti> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/756>
[15:24] <mup> PR operator#757 opened: fixed address info value getter <Created by PietroPasotti> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/757>


[02:07] <ScottK> kklimonda: It's proper for you to be the XSBC-Original-Maintainer in this case.
[02:08] <ScottK> (since you're packaging it)
[07:35] <dholbach> good morning!
[07:36]  * lan3y waves
[07:36] <lan3y> ooer
[07:36] <dholbach> hey lan3y
[07:43]  * Laney wriggles... that's better!
[07:43] <Rhonda> good morgon
[07:44] <Laney> guten vogon
[10:05] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: ping
[10:07] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: pong
[10:08] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: I just saw your Core-Dev application. Why did you write "(may be a little late)" ?
[10:10] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: because I may be at the meeting at 12:10 UTC for example
[10:11] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: dunno what is clear for other folks. for me it's not clear - It looks just like you should apply to Core-Dev earlier.
[10:14] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: clarified
[10:15] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: now is good
[15:25] <spotter> hey guys, there's a pretty major bug in a simple package (hebcal) that ubuntu pulls from my debian package, so a new release was made, any chance ubuntu can include it in -updates?
[15:26] <ebroder> !sru | spotter
[15:26] <ebroder> spotter: that's the process for getting stuff into -updates
[15:27] <spotter> the Q is, what does high impact mean?
[15:27] <ScottK> spotter: We'd need a bug with a test case for verification and a minimal diff.  With that, yes.
[15:27] <spotter> high impact to ubuntu, but high impact to package?
[15:27] <ScottK> spotter: To the package.
[15:27] <spotter> i.e. this is a lo impact package w/ a high impact bug to it (calculates wrong day for a fast day)
[15:28] <ScottK> spotter: That sounds like high impact to me.
[15:28] <ScottK> Because the only people it would affect would really care.
[15:28] <ScottK> I have to go, but if no one else helps you through the process, I should be available ~this time tomorrow to help.
[15:28] <ScottK> spotter: ^^^
[15:29] <spotter> ok, will work on it later, right now have to get back to work
[15:58] <xteejx> Afternoon all! :)
[15:59] <xteejx> How do I go about getting a new package into Ubuntu?
[16:00] <kklimonda> xteejx: you prepare it, upload to revu and look for sponsors
[16:00] <kklimonda> !revu | xteejx
[16:00] <xteejx> kklimonda: Does it matter if it doesn't go into Debian?
[16:00] <xteejx> Or will they take it automatically?
[16:00] <kklimonda> xteejx: no, but it should be your final goal.
[16:01] <kklimonda> nope, getting it into debian is a separate process
[16:01] <geser> xteejx: Debian is preferred as REVU is lacking reviewers and you can wait very long for a review, you might be faster getting it into Debian and sync it Ubuntu
[16:02] <xteejx> Hmm, that makes sense
[16:02] <xteejx> I'm pretty OK with doing my first package, it's just the rules file I'm already confused with
[16:03] <xteejx> The rest is pretty explanatory on the Debian New Maintainers Guide
[16:03] <RainCT> xteejx: in many cases you should be able to use debhelper 7 and not have to worry about debian/rules at all
[16:03] <xteejx> RainCT: Well the package uses the usual configure, make, make install
[16:04] <xteejx> I guess it would be the template one right?
[16:04] <xteejx> dh: $@ or whatever it is
[16:04] <RainCT> xteejx: right,  %: dh $@  iirc
[16:05] <xteejx> What about the difference between Ubu/Deb, can I build it locally (Ubuntu)?
[16:05] <geser> xteejx: if you have specific problems, you can ask in #ubuntu-packaging (or here)
[16:05] <xteejx> i.e make the package up and pbuilder it?
[16:05] <xteejx> Oh ok :) Brilliant!!
[16:06] <geser> xteejx: using a Debian sid pbuilder
[16:06] <xteejx> No prob, I know how to work pbuilder what with FTBFS fixes and the like :)
[16:07] <micahg> \sh: did you get my email about the ZF PPA versioning?
[16:10] <\sh> micahg: yepp
[16:10] <\sh> micahg: go ahead
[16:18] <micahg> geser: is there any process for me being added to MOTU or do I just need to ask?
[16:21] <geser> micahg: usually the person who chairs does it
[16:22] <micahg> geser: ah, ok, i'll wait then
[16:23] <geser> micahg: done
[16:24] <micahg> geser: thanks :)
[16:36] <bilalakhtar> micahg: Welcome to MOTU!
[16:36] <dholbach> micahg, congratulations
[16:43] <micahg> dholbach: thanks
[17:26] <achiang> hello, i submitted a fix for bug #672887 yesterday, simultaneously with an entry in debian BTS: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=602880
[17:27] <achiang> the ubuntu sponsor uploaded my package already; shortly thereafter, the DD uploaded a fix too
[17:27] <achiang> so, i learned a lesson: maybe if i submit a debian patch, i should wait a day or two before subscribing ubuntu-sponsors
[17:27] <achiang> ... to give the DD time to react
[17:28] <achiang> in the meantime, what's the best way to proceed with this package? it's fixed, yes, but should i request a merge too?
[17:29] <geser> achiang: is your fix the only change in the Debian package and the same as in the Ubuntu package?
[17:30] <achiang> geser: no, i notice the DD added an additional fix to his package [please read the debian bug for details]
[17:32] <geser> IMHO it's not worth to sync right now. the other update doesn't benefit Ubuntu. But you could keep an eye on this package and sync (as the Ubuntu delta is completely included in the Debian package) it on the next occasion
[17:34] <achiang> geser: does that sync happen automatically at some point? or is it a manual process? also, shouldn't it properly be called a merge, since the Ubuntu version and Debian version are now forked?
[17:36] <cjwatson> if the result is making the Ubuntu package a verbatim copy of the Debian package, we call that a sync
[17:36] <cjwatson> a merge is when there are still outstanding changes
[17:36] <cjwatson> (on the Ubuntu sided)
[17:36] <cjwatson> *side
[17:36] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: hello, did you see my requests to MoM?
[17:36] <achiang> ah, got it, thanks
[17:36] <cjwatson> since there are currently outstanding Ubuntu changes, it will require a manual request to sync
[17:36] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes
[17:38] <ari-tczew> cjwatson:  could you look on bug 667792 what happens with this sync?
[17:38]  * cjwatson looks slightly despairingly at the stack of another half a dozen things he's currently doing ...
[17:38] <achiang> cjwatson: so, for any package foo, if the version string is XubuntuY (meaning, outstanding Ubuntu changes), that will always require a manual sync, no matter where we are in the release cyccle?
[17:38] <cjwatson> achiang: yes
[17:39] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: looks successful.  tell me what the problem is, don't make me guess?
[17:40] <cjwatson> (and it's not listed on merges.ubuntu.com anywhere)
[17:40] <achiang> cjwatson: ok, thank you. now that i understand it will cause extra work, i will be slower to pull the trigger on filing Ubuntu bugs, and work harder to get fixes into Debian first. any good guidelines on how long it is appropriate to wait for a DD to respond before requesting an Ubuntu upload?
[17:40] <cjwatson> achiang: not really, judgement call
[17:40] <cjwatson> achiang: build relationships with Debian maintainers and it will be easier to guess
[17:40] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: ah, comment on package op-panel is wrong. you can look that it's driving to oinkmaster request
[17:40] <cjwatson> hard to put numbers on human factors
[17:41] <achiang> cjwatson: good advice, thank you.
[17:41] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: well, just delete the comment then
[17:41] <cjwatson> or figure out what it should say and fix it
[17:41] <ari-tczew> done 1 minute ago
[17:59] <kklimonda> cjwatson: btw, in sync we loose all our entries in the changelog, and houldn't changelog reflect all uploads (in this case to Ubuntu)?
[18:02] <cjwatson> kklimonda: we do.  it's a price worth paying.
[18:02] <cjwatson> (we discussed this way back at the start of Ubuntu)
[18:03] <SpamapS> beside that, they're not "lost".. they're still in whatever release they got uploaded in. :)
[18:03] <cjwatson> launchpad knows all
[19:51] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: 2 packages were removed from universe. does MoM will clean them?
[19:59] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: names?
[19:59] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: sponsoring overview says that you've upload access for all ubuntu ;d
[19:59] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: I should imagine so in general, though
[19:59] <cjwatson> (please only ask me if there is a definite problem)
[20:01] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: I just only ask whether MoM is going to remove removed packages from the list. do you want remove these packages manually?
[20:01] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: silo , xserver-xorg-video-sunleo ; emacs22
[20:01] <ari-tczew> (universe)
[20:02] <micahg> ari-tczew: they're still showing up in the madison db
[20:05] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: I don't want to touch anything manually
[20:05] <cjwatson> the silo and xserver-xorg-video-sunleo *source packages* shouldn't be removed - I had this discussion with you just the other day
[20:05] <cjwatson> there's no point removing source packages to correspond to which architectures we currently build - it's nothing but busy-work
[20:06] <cjwatson> somebody should either do trivial merges for those or sync them or something
[20:06] <cjwatson> oh, wait, somebody removed silo and xserver-xorg-video-sunleo against my express instructions?
[20:06] <cjwatson> bah
[20:07] <micahg> cjwatson: Riddell had no way to know as it wasn't documented in the bug
[20:08] <cjwatson> I know Riddell didn't
[20:08] <cjwatson> ari filed the bug AFTER talking to me
[20:08] <micahg> fun
[20:08] <cjwatson> I don't see the point in me asking questions if I'm just going to be ignored without the courtesy of a rebuttal
[20:08] <cjwatson> er, answering questions
[20:08] <micahg> cjwatson: do you want me to get those sources back?
[20:09] <cjwatson> I want ari to stop being a loose cannon
[20:09] <cjwatson> I don't desperately care about the source packages in question, but I want us not to be wasting work on this stuff
[20:09] <Rhonda> Actually there are people who think his behavior is appropriate.
[20:09] <cjwatson> what, asking a question, getting the answer, and then behaving as if he hadn't?
[20:10] <cjwatson> I have no problem with there being a difference of opinion on whether the source package should be removed
[20:10] <cjwatson> but that should be handled by actually having the conversation
[20:12] <cjwatson> one reason why it's actually important not to remove packages for this reason is that it's a problem if we ever decide we want to reintroduce the architecture later
[20:12] <cjwatson> and the weight of source packages that only build for architectures we don't support is negligible
[20:15] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: please don't remove packages based solely on the fact that we're not building for its architectures
[20:15] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: it will be problematic if we ever need to reintroduce the architecture in future, and in general it's just busy-work
[20:16] <cjwatson> I have a definite memory that I had already asked you not to do this in these cases, not that I can find the logs
[20:18] <cjwatson> ah yes, here we go, here are the logs from a week ago
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:34 <ari-tczew> can we remove packages from archive, if there is only one binary - sparc ?
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:35 <persia> ari-tczew, That's not a good reason, but we can remove stuff.  Which package?
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:36 <ari-tczew> persia: xserver-xorg-video-sunleo
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:36 <cjwatson> I've generally not found it worth the effort to do so
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:37 <cjwatson> it's easier to just sync all those source packages and have them do nothing, rather than go to the effort of maintaining entries in the sync-blacklist for everything that generates only binaries for architectures not in Ubuntu
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:37 <persia> We could remove that (use "Unbuildable in Ubuntu" as the reason, and blacklist), but yeah, I don't see the point.
[20:18] <cjwatson> 22:37 <cjwatson> (and keep track of when source packages add new architectures and remove them from the blacklist, and ...)
[20:18] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: did you not see that discussion?
[20:26] <micahg> geser: BTW, I took a look at the FTBFS page to add package sets, but my python foo isn't quite there yet
[20:28] <geser> send me what you have, and I try to merge it
[20:29] <micahg> geser: I don't have anything yet, I probably won't be able to do much with it before the beginning of the year
[20:30] <geser> np, I guess till then I'll find time to finish it myself
[20:30] <micahg> geser: you can feel free to leave it for me unless you want to work on it yourself
[20:31] <geser> I wanted to code  myself a little again but lacked an idea (know I have one thanks to you :)
[20:31] <micahg> geser: cool, thanks
[20:43] <highvoltage> heh, dhcp in network manager seemed to break anyway
[21:43] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: sorry, today my ISP doesn't work good


[00:53] <spiv> Good morning.
[01:02] <poolie> hi spivvo!
[01:02] <poolie> nice to see pjkeating getting an outing again
[01:13] <poolie> jelmer, do you know off hand how many importer branches have succeeded?
[01:35] <wallyworld_> poolie: did you know "bzr xmlls" is broken on natty?
[01:36] <poolie> that's from bzr-xmloutput?
[01:36] <poolie> i did not
[01:37] <wallyworld_> poolie: it's a python 2.7 incompatibility. i'll raise a bug
[01:38] <wallyworld_>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/xmloutput/xml_errors.py", line 30, in __str__
[01:38] <wallyworld_>     _escape_cdata(str(e))
[01:38] <wallyworld_> TypeError: _escape_cdata() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
[01:38] <wallyworld_> well i think it's python 2.7 related. haven't really looked into it
[01:39] <wallyworld_> it worked fine before i upgraded to natty
[01:41] <jelmer> poolie: Sorry, was afk. I'm not sure how many successful imports we have.
[01:42] <poolie> np, i took a reasonable guess
[01:42] <poolie> have a good night
[01:42] <jelmer> wallyworld_: I'm pretty sure that's been fixed in trunk, any chance you can give lp:bzr-xmloutput a try?
[01:42] <poolie> wallyworld, bug 732881
[01:42] <poolie> thought it rang a bell
[01:42] <wallyworld_> jelmer: sure can. i'm just finishing up something. will do it soon. thanks for letting me know :-)
[01:43] <jelmer> poolie: That's the plan :)
[01:43] <jelmer> ttyl
[01:43] <poolie> :) cheerio
[01:52] <wallyworld_> poolie: jelmer: xmloutput works fine from trunk. thanks!
[02:38] <spiv> poolie: Hey :)
[02:38] <spiv> poolie: ah, I guess freenode shenanigans or something kept you from seeing me earlier.
[02:39] <poolie> hi there
[02:39] <poolie> ah i wondered if it was something like that
[02:39] <poolie> either that or you'd abandoned 90s irc technology for tweeting
[02:39] <spiv> Hah.
[02:42] <poolie> how are the failures?
[02:43] <spiv> The LP workaround has passed ec2 and so landed on lp:launchpad
[02:44] <poolie> ok, and i guess will go live on the next downtime rollout?
[02:44] <spiv> I guess so
[02:45] <spiv> Hmm
[02:46] <spiv> I assume code changes on codehosting ssh aren't rolled out until there's downtime to restart the service
[02:46] <spiv> But because it's really split into the 'listens on ssh port' process and the 'bzr lp-serve' worker processes, in principle improvements to the latter could often be deployed without restarting the former.
[02:47] <poolie> yeah
[02:48] <poolie> ok, and so now ... the twisted upstream fix?
[02:48] <spiv> I guess when the ssh service can be brought down gracefully by being run behind haproxy there won't be as much incentive to try take advantage of that.
[02:48] <spiv> s/brought down/upgraded/
[02:48] <spiv> Is still waiting for a hopefully final review.
[02:49] <spiv> All the review points so far have been addressed.
[02:49] <poolie> great
[02:51] <poolie> i guess i will look into this possible whoami related selftest regression first
[02:51] <poolie> since a lot of other outstanding stuff hangs off that
[02:52] <poolie> how about you?
[02:52] <spiv> Patch piloting
[02:52] <spiv> As opposed to jelmer, who's been patch bombing ;)
[02:57] <poolie> :)
[02:57] <poolie> he certainly has
[02:57] <poolie> john too
[02:57] <poolie> good idea
[04:11] <spiv> poolie: hmm, hydrazine is now broken for me on maverick
[04:11] <spiv> TypeError: login_with() got an unexpected keyword argument 'application_name'
[04:12] <spiv> I do want to upgrade to natty quite soon, but perhaps not *right now* ;)
[04:13] <poolie> :/
[04:14] <poolie> i guess it needs some version-conditional code then
[04:14] <poolie> could you have a go at it?
[04:16] <spiv> I took a quick stab at backing out just that one revision to see the difference and got a surprisingly large conflict, so I just reverted to the version I was using before.
[04:16] <poolie> ok i'll try when i can get unity going
[05:20] <poolie> spiv could you glance at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/doc/+merge/55872
[05:26] <spiv> glanced, and approved :)
[05:26] <poolie> thakns
[07:33] <vila> Heigh Ho, Heigh Ho, hi all !
[07:35] <fullermd> OK, you've exhausted your allocated supply of "h"'s for the day...
[07:35] <spiv> vila: ¡hola!
[07:36] <vila> fullermd: I don't tink so
[08:16] <jam> i vila, ow's it going?
[08:16] <jam> fullermd: I tink e stole mine
[08:16] <vila> hehe
[08:17] <fullermd> jam: Try substituting an aitch.
[08:17] <vila> fullermd: fail
[08:17] <fullermd> I gotta stick with my strengths...
[08:18] <jam> I'm surprised ow readable tings are witout te letter. I say we get rid of it. It clearly is 'arming the language
[08:19] <jam> sucks, missed one
[08:19]  * fullermd invokes Mark Twain...
[08:19] <jam> fullermd: I do like that quote
[08:19] <fullermd> "Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld."
[08:19] <vila> dunno if it exists for English but I remember a text about mutating French to simplify it
[08:20] <vila> fullermd: yeah, like that ;)
[08:20] <jam> fullermd: I can probably read 90% of that, enough to understand it.
[08:20] <jam> A bit like reading Dutch for me :)
[08:21] <vila> this also reminds me of Perec who managed to write a book without the letter 'e'...
[08:21] <fullermd> If we'd just switch over to Lojban and be done with it..
[08:21]  * spiv h̶mms
[08:21] <vila> . o O (Probably never translated ;)
[08:21] <jam> vila: hard to write his name, though
[08:22] <vila> jam: hehe, good point, I wonder if he used a pseudo :)
[08:22] <fullermd> Authors are best kept out of their work anyway   :p
[08:23] <vila> te autor
[08:24] <vila> zomg, they *did* translate it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void
[08:26] <vila> all: poolie said hi !
[08:28]  * fullermd turns up the music and drags himself back to pretending to work.
[08:29] <jam> vila: sure, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby_(novel) was done 30 years earlier
[08:30] <vila> fullermd: not so fast ! What about http://pycon.blip.tv/file/4878868/ ? Can FreeBSD do that ?
[08:30] <fullermd> Show me a big grey box saying something about a plugin that would crash my browser regularly if it existed?  Looks like...
[08:30] <vila> . o O (Totally unrelated but worth trying to distract fullermd )
[08:30] <jam> vila: well, he did it on a mac, which is technically just a glorified BSD machine, right?
[08:30] <vila> jam: don't spoil it ! ;D
[08:31] <vila> jam: what with Gatsby ? (Obviously I don't know)
[08:31] <jam> vila: and there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogram
[08:31] <jam> describing earlier works as well.
[08:31] <jam> vila: Gadsby was the first long text without the letter E
[08:31] <vila> hoooo, I didn't know that
[08:32] <vila> interesting... sort of ;) Hackers all over the place ;D
[08:32] <jam> vila: "Hamlet without the letter I".
[08:32] <jam> To be or not to be, that's the query
[08:32] <jam> (since question has an I)
[08:32] <fullermd> Eh.  You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the original Klingon.
[08:33] <vila> wow 'the quick brown fox...' omits S !
[08:34] <spiv> jumps?
[08:34] <jam> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Klingon_Hamlet
[08:35] <vila> spiv: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog
[08:35] <jam> I'm pretty sure the full "quick brown" text has all English letters
[08:35] <vila> could be
[08:35] <jam> as it is supposed to be a text for showing typography
[08:35] <fullermd> Yeah, I gave my mother a copy for Christmas some years back.
[08:35] <jam> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_quick_brown_fox_jumps_over_the_lazy_dog
[08:35] <vila> yup, may be just a variant to explain lipogram
[08:36] <vila> ok, back to liprogramming config without the letter 'bug' :D
[08:41] <vila> jam: by the way, congrats on your efforts around the sha1s !
[08:41] <jam> vila: thanks
[08:42] <jam> unfortunately, I still need to track down all the other paths
[08:42] <jam> like merge
[08:42] <jam> and revert
[08:42] <jam> and ...
[08:42] <vila> jam: I'm not surprised :-/
[08:42] <jam> I could cheat and recompute the sha1 in create_file, but that would just move the processing time around.
[08:42] <vila> jam: feel free to find shortcuts along the way !
[09:06] <jam> vila, jelmer, spiv: Are we doing the standup now?
[09:07] <vila> jam: I think it was decided to do it tomorrow (as an exception)
[09:08] <jam> vila: I think you're right
[09:08] <jam> I always have trouble with "you have a meeting" emails
[09:08] <jam> for some reason the *date* of the meeting is never clear to me
[09:08] <vila> jam: easy short, I did accept the invitation this night :) You made me doubt about the *week* ;)
[09:09] <vila> s/short/shot/
[09:09] <jam> yeah, it definitely has @ Thu
[09:09] <jam> I just need to pay more attention :)
[09:50] <jelmer> looking at the date isn't a guarantee, I've seen a few evolution timezone bugs ;)
[11:07] <fullermd> Gaah.  And once again, I waste a bunch of time because of bug 315399  :(
[11:24] <hrw> hi
[11:26] <hrw> will there be bzr-fastimport 0.10.0 package for ubuntu natty?
[11:28] <vila> fullermd: any chance you can point to a public branch allowing to reproduce (for the record ?)
[11:38] <fullermd> Not that I know of.
[11:39] <jelmer> hrw: it's not planned; we should be able to get the new snapshot from Debian synced if there's a good reason to
[11:42] <hrw> jelmer: trying to get git-bzr-ng working again - it lists 0.10.0 as requirement
[11:43] <jelmer> hrw: natty has a 0.9 snapshot IIRC, I think it has the fixes required by git-bzr-ng
[11:44] <hrw> jelmer: bzr: ERROR: unknown command "fast-export"
[11:46] <hrw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590170/ is whole output
[11:47] <jelmer> hrw: does "bzr plugins" list the fastimport plugin?
[11:48] <hrw> ha! nice catch. http://paste.ubuntu.com/590175/ shows that it is installed but bzr does not know that
[11:52] <hrw> but why it happened? no idea
[11:54] <vila> hrw: python version mismatch ?
[11:55] <hrw> vila: fastimport landed in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/bzrlib/plugins/ when all other plugins are in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins directory
[11:56] <hrw> this is under natty (which was upgraded from maverick in beginning of development cycle)
[11:56] <vila> hrw: 'bzr plugins -v' will tell you where plugins have been  found
[11:57] <hrw> vila: already used -v to find where normally they reside. only bzr-fastimport got into other place
[11:57] <vila> hrw: I'm not *that* familiar with packaging to say what the right directory is, but it's weird that two different ones are used (not counting link farms)
[11:59] <jelmer> I bet it's the switch to python-support that's related
[12:00] <hrw> jelmer: sure. but why bzr does not check python-support dirs too?
[12:00] <vila> hrw: could be a bug in packaging, you're using the daily ppa ? (Obviously no: bzr-fastimport 	0.9.0+bzr311~ppa129~natty1  there)... where did your package come from ?
[12:01] <jelmer> hrw: bzr simply uses the standard python import mechanism
[12:01] <vila> ha, no, you're using stock natty
[12:01] <hrw> vila: plain natty package
[12:02] <vila> yup, rmadison told me
[12:02] <hrw> anyway - symlinked it to ~/.bazaar/plugins/fastimport for now
[12:02] <jelmer> hrw: it's definitely some sort of packaging issue, any chance you can file a bug?
[12:02] <vila> you meant s/to/from/ ?
[12:03] <hrw> vila: ln -sf /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/bzrlib/plugins/fastimport/ ~/.bazaar/plugins/fastimport/
[12:03] <vila> but yeah, easiest work-around if you don't want to put a branch there
[12:03] <hrw> jelmer: sure
[12:04] <jelmer> vila: what's the problem with try/finally in tests?
[12:04]  * vila nods ln -s will confuse me until my death, there is no way I will get it right now after getting it wrong for the past 30 years
[12:04] <vila> jelmer: error-prone, less clear generally
[12:05] <vila> jelmer: there are some exceptions but as a rule, avoiding them is generally better
[12:05] <jelmer> vila: I understand less clear, but in what way is it error-prone?
[12:05] <jelmer> I don't have any objection to using self.addCleanup(), just curious.
[12:05] <vila> hmm, yeah, what did I mean...
[12:06] <vila> you can define the try/finally scope wrongly
[12:07] <jam> jelmer: try/finally also tends to lead to terrible scopes when you have 3-4 of them
[12:07] <vila> or more generally forget it, whereas using addCleanup *unless* you can't wait the end of the test to cleanup is generally safer
[12:07] <jelmer> ah, fair enough
[12:07] <vila> jelmer: so it's kind of error-prone to *not* use addCleanup
[12:08] <vila> jelmer: which may be more precise than saying try/finally is error-prone
[12:08] <vila> jelmer: yeah, I think that's what I meant :D
[12:09] <vila> zomg, when did the ppa pages got the stop signs in 'Latest updates' ?
[12:10] <vila> for ever but I never look at the page while failures where pending ?
[12:10] <spiv> jelmer: the two basic problems with try-finally vs. addCleanup are
[12:11] <hrw> jelmer: bug 752396
[12:11] <spiv> 1) if the cleanup is distant from the initial action (i.e. many lines away) it's easier for skew between those to be missed, and
[12:11] <jelmer> hrw: thanks, marked confirmed
[12:12] <spiv> 2) an error in a finally block will override a prior error
[12:12] <hrw> git-bzr-ng now works in both directions - finally no need to touch bzr directly ;D
[12:12] <spiv> So you can get e.g. TooManyConcurrentRequests or some odd pack exception rather than the actual problem.
[12:14] <spiv> And there's related things like if you have code like "if cond: foo.lock_read()" then you need to say "if cond: foo.unlock()" in your finally, so you're repeating yourself
[12:14] <jelmer> spiv: that makes sense, thanks
[12:14] <spiv> Basically, default to using addCleanup everywhere it's conveniently available… and if it's not conveniently available, consider using it anyway ;)
[12:15] <vila> jelmer: and I don't remember a case where migrating from try/finally to addCleanup made the test harder to read or maintain
[12:15] <vila> jelmer: but a lot of cases where it fixed some nasty bugs
[12:16] <jelmer> just to be clear, I'm not arguing for try/finally, I was only wondering why addCleanup is better.. I think I know now :)
[12:16] <vila> well, may be no a lot, but some lock checks failures were fixed this way
[12:17] <vila> jelmer: I think you got a good summary :)
[12:28] <jam> vila: some more "Welcome to Europe" things for you.
[12:29] <jam> 1) The EU "Queen" size is 8cm wider than the US one.
[12:29] <jam> (for matresses)
[12:29] <jam> so it isn't a trivial "buy a split foundation". We did so, and now it doesn't fit with the frame, etc.
[12:29] <jelmer> jam: isn't it supposed to be the other way around?
[12:29] <jelmer> generally stuff is larger in the US :)
[12:29] <jam> jelmer: that's what they say :)
[12:30] <jam> 2) ... dang, I swear I had 2
[12:30] <jam> jelmer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattress
[12:30] <jam> has a big table of "crazy" sizes
[12:31] <jam> apparently UK has yet-another standard set of sizes
[12:31] <jam> I believe the phrase is "Standards are great, we should clearly have more of them"
[12:31] <jelmer> heh, indeed :)
[12:31] <jam> jelmer: apparently the US "King" size is bigger. 193cm vs 180cm.
[12:32] <jelmer> jam: At least this is standardised, so many things are still different across EU countries
[12:33] <jam> jelmer: of course as mentioned, depends if UK is part of the EU or not :)
[12:33] <jelmer> jam:
[12:34] <jelmer> I don't really think they are :)
[12:35] <vila> jam: 8=/
[12:35] <vila> Yup, I can confirm that, they aren't :D
[12:36] <jam> vila, jelmer: And AIUI neither is Switzerland or Czech, or ...
[12:37] <jelmer> jam: well, the UK is formally a part of the EU, just not in spirit :)
[12:37] <jelmer> jam: Switzerland is a part of some treaties (like Schengen, the customs treaty) but not of the EU
[12:39] <jam> jelmer: being able to half-join is like having yet-another-standard
[12:39] <vila> jam: oh, no, Switzerland, pfff of course not ;) You know, while the EU is far younger than the US, the family history if far longer and some episodes goes really far into the past ;)
[12:40] <vila> jam: can you imagine that the parliament is moved, twice a month, including all admin people and of course all of the paper archives ?
[12:42] <jelmer> vila: good business for Strasbourg though, no? :)
[12:43] <jam> wow, seems crazy
[12:43] <jam> or like a rock-and-roll show
[12:43] <spiv> A parliament with roadies!
[12:43] <jam> spiv: just watch out for the groupies
[12:43] <spiv> jam: ITYM "public servants"
[12:43] <jam> :)
[12:44] <jam> spiv: and 'pay-to-play' politics
[12:46] <vila> jelmer: that's what they say ;)
[13:49] <jelmer> maxb_: Do you know if there was anything in the newer debhelper that we actually needed?
[13:51] <jelmer> nevermind
[13:58] <maxb_> jelmer: --buildsystem
[13:58] <maxb> and override_dh_foo
[14:00] <gypsymauro> hi
[14:00] <maxb> hello
[14:01] <gypsymauro> I'm trying to use the syntax bzr serve --port=localhost:1234 --directory=/srv/bzr/repo
[14:04] <gypsymauro> but when I try to bzr log bzr://localhost:1234/ .. does nothing
[14:04] <gypsymauro> any hint?
[14:05] <maxb> "does nothing" is not a helpful problem description. It certainly does something - even if that something is "hang" or "exit with no error and no output"
[14:06] <gypsymauro> it "hangs"
[14:07] <gypsymauro> even ctrl-c on server doesn't kill it
[14:08] <maxb> What is your platform? Linux?
[14:09] <gypsymauro> yes
[14:09] <maxb> If  you re-run the "bzr log" command adding the "-Derror" option, and Ctrl-C it after a while, what error do you get?
[14:09] <maxb> Whilst in the hung situation, can you see any tcp connections using "netstat -tn | grep 1234" ?
[14:10] <gypsymauro> tcp        0      0 <IP_ADDRESS>:41908         <IP_ADDRESS>:1234          ESTABLISHED
[14:10] <gypsymauro> tcp       85      0 <IP_ADDRESS>:1234          <IP_ADDRESS>:41908         ESTABLISHED
[14:11] <gypsymauro> so it seems a connection
[14:11] <gypsymauro> after ctrl-c noone error I waitd 5 mins
[14:16] <maxb> Please check the ~/.bzr.log file for any potentially useful information
[14:23] <gypsymauro> maxb: nothing usefull
[14:23] <gypsymauro> it's like is bzr serve that freezes
[14:31] <trond->  I'm using bazaar for webdevelopment of a service that I
[14:31] <trond-> (gr.) starting over
[14:32] <trond-> I'm using bzr for webdevelopment, and I have created a solution that is available for a few customers. I have branched those versions. Now, If I change something in one branch, and want this change to be available for the others, how do I do this?
[14:50] <jam> trond-: can you just go to the other branch and "bzr merge" the first one?
[14:57] <maxb> If you have multiple customer specific branches, it can be worth maintaining a central generic branch from you merge changes
[17:15] <jelmer> maxb: I'm considering splitting bzrlib.tests into its own (Arch: all) package
[17:15] <jelmer> maxb: it's 16Mb (vs 29Mb in all of bzrlib/)
[17:16] <maxb> gosh. Quite a saver. Sounds great, though we might need to patch other stuff to fail helpfully, I suppose?
[17:16] <jelmer> maxb: yeah
[17:17] <jelmer> AFAIK "bzr selftest" is the only thing that really imports from bzrlib.tests
[17:20] <maxb> Oh, and presumably anything that matters will already have a conditional to react nicely to the absence of python-testtools?
[17:20] <jelmer> maxb: presumably, but in practice that isn't actually the case
[17:20] <jelmer> nothing outside of bzrlib.tests uses testtools though
[17:21] <maxb> Oh
[17:21] <jelmer> one of the nice things of splitting bzrlib.tests out is that it can actually depend on python-testtools properly
[17:23] <maxb> Perhaps "No module named testtools" was sufficiently informative to class as "reacting nicely" in my head :-)
[17:23] <jelmer> heh, fair enough
[17:25] <maxb> OK, so we could either patch cmd_selftest upstream to say something like "The testsuite is not part of this bzr installation", or we could patch it in the packaging branch to suggest 'apt-get install python-bzrlib-tests' similar to what the debian mercurial package does for this sort of thing
[18:04] <jelmer> maxb: sounds reasonable to me
[20:40] <mrnuke> hi
[20:41] <mrnuke> I'd like to know how to merge two bzr branches, and keep the commit history from both branches
[20:42] <mrnuke> if I just bzr merge /path/to/other/bbranch, it discards the commit history from the other branch
[20:43] <luks_> it doesn't discard anything
[20:44] <mrnuke> so after bzr merge, I can simply bzr commit without fear?
[20:44] <luks_> but I think that bzr log doesn't display it by default (wow, it's been a long time since I used log)
[20:44] <luks_> you can use bzr log -n0
[20:44] <luks_> or better, bzr qlog
[20:44] <luks_> yes
[20:48] <mrnuke> oh, thanks :)
[20:48] <mrnuke> I was afraid to commit fearing the history would be lost
[21:58] <trond-> jam, ref my question and your reply - go to other branch and bzr merge. Do you mean go to the main code and merge, or to the branch and merge?
[21:58] <trond-> maxb, I agree. (central generic branch)
[22:19] <mwhudson> huh, this isn't how i expected bzr-hg to choke on pypy: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/68480618/mwhudson-pypy-hg-trunk.log
[22:19] <mwhudson> (for the click-shy it's "IOError: [Errno None] connection ended unexpectedly")
[22:19] <mwhudson> jelmer: hi :-)
[22:20] <jelmer> hey Michael :)
[22:21] <jelmer> mwhudson: I guess we wait too long reading all of the data and meanwhile the connection times out
[22:21] <mwhudson> yeah, i guess so
[22:22] <mwhudson> bitbucket have a really crappy router doing nat? :)
[22:24] <jelmer> mwhudson: we're too slow parsing hg data?
[22:25] <mwhudson> i guess that's a more realistic explanation yes
[22:31] <jelmer> mwhudson: can you file a bug? I don't think we have that one yet
[22:33] <mwhudson> jelmer: ok


[00:15] <Bashing-om> guiverc: OK now to wipe Gdoc ? start 638 .
[00:16] <guiverc> yep
[00:16] <Bashing-om> whipping :D
[00:30] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue 638 started :D
[03:36] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Mozilla Firefox 78 Is Now Available for Download on Linux, Windows, macOS @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/mozilla-firefox-78-is-now-available-for-download-on-linux-windows-macos-530396.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[14:07] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Firefox 78 Released, Bumps Linux System Requirements @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=185418 (by Joey Sneddon)
[17:27] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Arc Menu 47 Released with New Layout, Other Improvements @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=185601 (by Joey Sneddon)
[22:17] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Kubuntu General News: Plasma 5.19 testing in Groovy Gorilla @ https://kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5-19-testing-in-groovy-gorrila/


[01:50] <shantorn> good evening all?
[02:20] <shantorn> whats new this evening?
[02:58] <bkerensa> nothing much
[02:59] <bkerensa> we got food for Ubuntu Global Jam
[02:59] <bkerensa> and lots of stuff to giveaway :)
[03:06] <shantorn> thats great
[03:10] <shantorn> i always seem to have bad timing in this channel, i rarely get to visit with you folks
[05:30] <bkerensa> =o
[05:36] <bkerensa> oh yay I'm now a member of the Software Association of Oregon :P
[05:38] <thefinn93> cool
[05:39] <thefinn93> what's that do for you?
[05:39] <bkerensa> nothing at all :P
[05:40] <bkerensa> I guess its good for business people and such
[05:40] <bkerensa> I think I get discounts to certain events and things in Portland
[05:40] <bkerensa> Oregon*
[05:40] <thefinn93> huh
[05:40] <thefinn93> cool
[05:40] <bkerensa> http://www.linuxjournal.com/event/ubuntu-global-jam-oregon
[05:48] <thefinn93> cool
[06:03] <bkerensa> sheesh
[06:03] <bkerensa> tagging that CLS photo on Google+ was hard
[06:30] <bkerensa> I take that back
[06:31] <bkerensa> I guess I get to go to an Annual Member Dinner and Golf Tournament
[11:15] <matin> hi
[15:20] <bkerensa> hi matin
[15:48] <shantorn> morning all
[16:11] <bkerensa> I'm gonna get the fire started
[16:14] <shantorn> excelent
[16:27] <shantorn> boy our wiki needs some updating, say is there any way that i can help with the team?
[16:31] <bkerensa> shantorn: Yeah the Wiki is in progress of being cleaned up
[16:32] <shantorn> well let me know if there are any other things i might be able to help with. I have to leave now, bbl
[16:32] <bkerensa> shantorn: Well of course one of the biggest helps is telling more people about Ubuntu... Aside from going to events one thing the LoCo aims to do is advocate online and offline... I do a lot of work on irc and forums helping people
[16:32] <bkerensa> ok
[16:33] <bkerensa> :)
[17:56] <dgibbons> bkerensa: You/someone/Not it! should post about the loco jam event on reddit/r/portland someone should probably post about the global one on /r/ubuntu
[17:58] <bkerensa> thefinn93: Will be the one to do that he is a Reddit mutant :P
[18:01] <pl4to> what kind of stuff goes on at the loco jams?
[18:04] <bkerensa> We will be of course do upgrades to Oneiric and Bug work, Documentation and eat food and socialize
[18:04] <bkerensa> :)
[18:04] <bkerensa> Plus we got a lot of stuff to giveaway
[18:04] <pl4to> sounds good
[18:05] <bkerensa> T-shirts, LinuxJournal and Ubuntu User Subscriptions, Ubuntu Swag, ThinkGeek Gift Certificate
[18:05] <bkerensa> :)
[18:05] <bkerensa> Plus PuppetLabs has nice comfy couches
[18:06] <bkerensa> We would love to have you join us :)
[18:08] <pl4to> it's definitely something I'd be interested in but I live in Bend, course if the circumstances are right I'll show up regardless
[18:38] <bkerensa> pl4to: Well we do hope in the future to have events throughout the state :)
[18:40] <pl4to> I'll be staying up to date here at the least, so in the case that I can make it, I will.
[20:26] <bkerensa> Mmmm Shanghai Noodle House bowls for the win
[20:46] <bkerensa> Linux New Media is sending a box too.... TheFinn93 might have to be my rickshaw and help me get all this stuff to PuppetLabs for the event
[20:46] <bkerensa> :D
[20:46] <thefinn93> i can help with that
[21:43] <shantorn> guys will there be official 1.10 disk for us to use for installing?
[21:43] <shantorn> wifi and ethernet?
[21:44] <bkerensa> There will be wifi and ethernet
[21:44] <thefinn93> and probably some flash drives
[21:44] <thefinn93> i'll bring one
[21:44] <bkerensa> 11.10 wont have CD's out till October
[21:45] <bkerensa> but we will have thumb drives
[21:45] <bkerensa> and they have powerful wifi
[21:45] <shantorn> will we have burned ones?
[21:45] <thefinn93> if you make them
[21:45] <thefinn93> :D
[21:45] <bkerensa> :P
[21:45] <bkerensa> When October rolls around we will have CD's
[21:45] <thefinn93> yeah i'll probably burn one or two just to be safe
[21:45] <bkerensa> I might have a spare CD-R or two and burn copies
[21:46] <thefinn93> i have a spindle of them
[21:46] <bkerensa> I always give my spindles away
[21:46] <bkerensa> :)
[21:46] <shantorn> well my thoughts are that I will bring my son's desktop and my laptop and we will install together, so bringing a few disks isnt a problem
[21:46] <bkerensa> I have no use for them
[21:46] <thefinn93> shantorn, what about flash drives?
[21:47] <thefinn93> they're my preferred medium of installation
[21:47] <shantorn> why?
[21:47] <bkerensa> Faster
[21:47] <bkerensa> :)
[21:47] <bkerensa> Faster to make a USB install fob and then they also dont scratch or break as easy
[21:47] <thefinn93> yeah
[21:47] <shantorn> hmm, i havent found that to be the case, maybe its my flash drives
[21:48] <thefinn93> and i find that CDs always get messed up
[21:48] <bkerensa> yeah
[21:48] <thefinn93> like don't even burn right
[21:48] <thefinn93> then you've wasted a CD
[21:48] <bkerensa> indeed
[21:49] <thefinn93> yeah
[21:54] <shantorn> i have never had one burn wrong with eother of my pc as long as i use k3b
[22:05] <thefinn93> huh
[22:05] <thefinn93> dang, trimet's API and python do NOT like each other
[22:14] <thefinn93> v
[22:14] <thefinn93> http://video.linux.com/video/2127
[22:14] <thefinn93> lol
[22:14] <thefinn93> microsoft wishes linux happy birthday
[22:16] <shantorn> very interesting
[22:21] <shantorn> i have 11.10 in a vm and its sure is buggy unlike 11.04


[13:30] <Laibsch> How do I cut a release from a bzr trunk hosted on launchpad?
[15:10] <cjwatson> Laibsch: I mean that's mostly up to where you're going to host the release.  You should probably tag it with bzr, and then you might build a tarball and upload it to LP, or maybe you want to upload it to PyPI/npm/CPAN/your-own-website/whatever
[15:11] <cjwatson> Mostly not really LP's business :)
[20:09] <lamneth> anyone here who been able to have launchpad authentication work for Windows ???
[20:10] <lamneth> Windows 10 more precisely
[20:22] <lamneth> sorry!  back!
[20:39] <lamneth> anyone who's been able to successfully register SSH keys and make bazaar work on Windows here???
[20:48] <cjwatson> It might be better to say what's going wrong when you try


 Whose dream? Linux runs on most mobile phones already, and has since before the iPhone was released 11 years ago.
[00:03] <ubptgbot> <Tygerpro Tygerpro> @dohbee, Isn't that distro called android?
 well it's one of them, but Linux was running underneath the Java UIs on phones well before Andoid or iOS came along.
 @dohbee No, you're wrong.
 A gimped, obsolete, feature-incomplete version of the linux kernel runs and has ran since before the iPhone was released on all mobile devices.
 You mean 2.6
 indeed
 hheheheh
 It's just not true to say that it's the same thing as Linux
 But it is
 Linux powers it, but it's missing the point.
 Just old Linux
 And when it came out it was new Linux
 Linux is in Windows, we've won.
 But it's still not proper Linux.
 linux powers everything, but I'm not using proper up to date linux with any power over my device when I use Android.
 I mean, I don't think the goal was to win but to make something that we all liked to use
 Wrong lol
 The goal is and always will be world domination
 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 and we currently world dominate
 I mean, Linux is just a kernel
 everything runs linux, and that's a good thing, however I would rather not use 2.6.
 Linux is not in Windows
 Yes it is lol
 The subsystem is Linux in Windows
 they caved under pressure, it was a feature added by demand.
 not really
 It's a reimplementation of Linux syscalls to the Windows NT kernel
 Also @ubports_ot
 also that
 For offtopic
 Yes, but it's still Linux, in some form, in Windows.
 Just as Linux is in some form in Android
 But they're still not proper Linux, and saying that all mobile devices have ran Linux since before the iphone is about as ridiculous as saying the subsystem is true linux lol
 What I mean is that I want to be able to do everything I can do on a raspberry pi on my mobile device
 In that case, I'm gonna be frank with you, you're not gonna like UT that much
 Why?
 You could use it like a Linux desktop
 But that's really missing the point of a mobile device
 Well I'm not coming for that part, although that part is awesome
 it's not "proper linux" according to your poor and uninformed definition of the world
 I'm coming for the only sane Linux UI design for a mobile device
 that's what I'm here for lol
 @dohbee, You didn't need to add any adjectives now
 it's not just UI
 but the ability to do anything I can do on Linux is very very nice to have too
 you can build your own system image if you want, but that's not UT
 Right, I think you're missing my point lol
 He's saying that he likes UT though. :P
 Linux 2.6 is not Linux.
 Linux_Current is Linux
 You're not getting that with UT either
 and i can do whatever you're talking about, on Android too
 but again @ubports_ot is where this belongs
 Well it's modern enough to allow me to do anything I want.
 So it's still "current"
 it's not entirely obsolete lol
 no
 it is literally End of Life
 It's 14.04 isn't t?
 [Edit] It's 14.04 isn't it?
 No, it's kernel 3.4 and 3.10 with Ubuntu 16.04
 I might have some form of problem with it, as I have with Debian, I guess, but there's still nothing it can't do.
 the kernel? no. most devices currently supported, are Linux 3.4
 It can still run docker, and therefore almost anything else
 3.4 is iffy on that one
 that's a whole LOT it cannot do
 well I must have misunderstood
 OneplusOne UBT uses what kernel?
 either 3.4 or 3.10
 The one that came with the Oneplus One with patches for the features that UT needs
 Can I `sudo`?
 Er... sure
 yes, but that doesn't mean anything
 Can I `mkdir, ls` and `htop`?
 yes, but that doesn't mean anything
 Sure, you can do that in Android too
 Okay, now.
 can I `docker pull debian:stretch … docker run -i -t debian:stretch /bin/bash` ?
 Like, we're here because UT is the best mobile platform but let's not sell it as something it's not
 [Edit] can I `docker pull debian:stretch docker run -i -t debian:stretch /bin/bash` ?
 no
 UT does not ship with docker
 you can make a chroot, and install docker in the chroot, and perhaps do something with it
 And what are the troubles with getting docker via 14.04 instructions from the docker docs?
 but that's a bit meta
 14.04 is irrelevant
 What is it that doesn't work the same as desktop linux?
 Well for one the rootfs is read-only
 well it's ARM
 So you'd have to put docker in a container or chroot
 I can run docker on a pi
 you aren't going to be playing Half Life 3 on it
 So what is it that's fundamentally different?
 `lxc` is in the image, though
 It's important to note that I've only been using Unix for a year lol.
 right, you can create a container/chroot and do things inside that
 just as you can on Android
 Right, but doing this on Android isn't very hot.
 GNU's Not Unix
 A lot of problems have occurred using Linux Deploy on Android
 In my experience, maybe you can do things.
 But you have to find asinine ways to accomplish a task you'd be comfortable with on a regular linux machine
 sounds like UT
 There is almost no difference between the way I do things on a pi and the way I do things on this laptop I'm typing from.
 so why would that be true for UT?
 They're both arm, and they both run the linux kernel, is 3.4 really that outdated?
 it's not true
 first off, the rootfs is readonly, as already stated
 secondly, there is no Xorg. the display manager is Mir
 Right, which doesn't pose any problem
 apps are run in confined contexts
 I'm only talking about CLI.
 Nothing to do with gui apps, gui interaction, etc.
 then you don't need a phone
 No, if I run convergence or want to use a terminal, I can.
 I don't need to open up connectbot, make a prefab for a device, connect to it, etc
 I can just use `ssh`
 again, you still need to create a container/chroot to do all your special CLI things in
 special cli things?
 (but not ssh)
 which you can do, but this is no different from doing so on Android
 Don't I just simply open a terminal and do the thing?
 @MatthewCroughan, Docker, etc
 well you ssh to the host, and chroot into the chroot
 No, if you type `sudo apt install` it'll get upset
 @MatthewCroughan, no. the world is not installed by default, and the root filesystem is readonly
 Unless you `debootstrap` or use Libertine to create a chroot for yourself, you've only got the preinstalled softwrae
 [Edit] Unless you `debootstrap` or use Libertine to create a chroot for yourself, you've only got the preinstalled software
 You can install more apps made for Ubuntu Touch via clicks
 is debootstrap even pre-installed?
 No
 you can download a pre-installed rootfs tarball and unpack, and chroot into it, though
 That would also work
 So really, you can do all the things you can do on Linux. But only if you do a workaround first. That's the same workaround that you'd need to do under Android
 ```sudo apt-get install \ …     apt-transport-https \ …     ca-certificates \ …     curl \ …     software-properties-common … curl -fsSL https://download.docker.com/linux/ubuntu/gpg | sudo apt-key add - … sudo apt-key fingerprint 0EBFCD88 … sudo add-apt-repository \ …    "deb [arch=amd64] https://download.docker.com/linux/ub
[00:49] <ubptgbot> untu \ …    $(lsb_release -cs) \ …    stable" … sudo apt-get update … sudo apt-get install docker-ce```
 At what point would this fail?
 `sudo apt-get install`
 Also, please don't paste large messages into Telegram. They're hard to read and the IRC folks get a small flood
 Right, so UT has no standard package management that I'd be used to?
 Sorry, my bad.
 No. You would have to begin by making a `chroot` in your writable home directory or using Libertine
 Which is preinstalled
 it is a system image based paltform designed for embedded devices
 You can make the root filesystem writable and run all of those commands, but you're liable to run out of space on the system image and your changes might get overwritten on an OTA upgrade.
 Right, so once this one or two-step process is complete, and I have apt, what step in this process would fail?
 while the default rootfs image is bulit from packages which are compiled as debs in the repository, debian packages are not the method of installing applications into the system
 Possibly running the docker daemon, depending on what features it needs
 so what package manager is being used?
 `click`, it's for graphical applications
 Made with tooling for Ubuntu Touch
 Which is seemless for wireless display 15.04 or 16.04
 @PartTimer, please stop repeating this question in different forms
 it will not increase the chances of you getting the exact answer you wish to hear
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DisplayCasting
 That's the only answer we can give
 Your mileage may vary
 Can I get convergence
 Or stream
 @UniversalSuperBox, Sure
 Asking again won't really change the answer, most of the information is on that wiki page
 what is "convergence" to you?
 Given the context, wireless display
 Splitting hairs on the word won't help anyone
 if it's just external display, then sure; buy a Nexus 5, and a SlimPort adapter, and be done with it
 But only two supported devices?
 Yes, only two known working devices.
 @dohbee, Its when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much.
 @PhoenixLandPirate, -_-
 It is dissapointing that Wireless Display might not work out of the box for my on a Oneplus One
 But then again, I'm not coming here for that, it'd just be the cherry on to
 [Edit] But then again, I'm not coming here for that, it'd just be the cherry on top
 Well it should (I haven't tested it), but probably only for those sinks
 @UniversalSuperBox, Uh
 Fwd from joonnnyyyy: É esse? https://t.me/UBports_Unity8
[04:42] <ubptgbot> <Diego Valverde> @advocatux, Muchas gracias eh
 (Sticker, 364x512) https://irc.ubports.com/kBGeHh6d.webp
 Hello. … 1. I'm wondering if there will be support for "motorola moto c plus"? … 2. If not, then how can I install the "OS" on my model of the smartphone "motorola moto c plus"?
 @allsafepro You can read about compatible devices here: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
 if you know how to develop and want to take on the challenge of porting Ubuntu Touch to a new device you can start here:  … https://docs.halium.org/en/latest/
 @UniversalSuperBox, Sorry, but that was hilarious. I love how the first instruction he mentioned would prevent everything else because, indeed, the rootfs is write protected by default.
[09:47] <ubptgbot> uTioPAXH80 was added by: uTioPAXH80
 Are there any Keepit experts here?
 @distrojunkie, I only know that Keeweb works better than Keepit :) … Shot your question, someone will help you (probably)
 @mimecar, hey! you! welcome!  Your name was a fresh treat to see :)
 @dohbee, that... should be fixed maybe?  wow....
 @wayneoutthere, i guess not. there's no reason for every project to have support groups on every possible chat network
 and anyway, it's not about ubports
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/6vQxf2r0.mp4
[13:55] <ubptgbot> Melissa Davidson was added by: Melissa Davidson
 hello Melissa.  Welcome to the group.  Here is a link that we hope will help you get familiar with our community.   … https://ubports.com/telegram-welcome
 Keeweb is the bomb and you just cleared the last issue that forced me to carry around my old android phone. Thanks a bunch.
 I'm glad to have helped you :)
 @distrojunkie, this is a happy day.  allow us to celebrate with you.
 > i guess not. there's no reason for every project to have support groups on every possible chat network
 i suppose since we can just plug them all in the matrix 🙃
[14:33] <ubptgbot> <Melissa Davidson> Congrats yesterday winners of 10 bitcoin. … Angelica Bhreemn - 1GArFaxBLp6XR4D … DGFtxiexpbwj8SFj5uA … Medina Halks - 3AVctASasFfqG43 … T4tkV74gXqsckKmUcrB … Jhamed Chuemeka - 1AHiCEvuwJQz7d5 … nLGfX1DTCijtRc6Q6c5 … Rheena VOlks - 1ENVTkd9f5KUkvc … KSutiJwlBVPgaPh6ihT … Jhohn Dee loa - 3E3uP3YsGxKVK3g … XyYvTjzN72YRq5o22uD
[14:33] <ubptgbot> … Get a chance to win 10 bitcoin again today! … Just comment this : and send me INBOX PM MESSAGE … B … I … T … C … O … I … N … Without interruption from other members. … 1 letter per comment, I will monitor all comment, goodluck. … Why am i giving away free btc ? … Because i make good money daily with my team
 oh look spam
 @admin
 @wayneoutthere @UniversalSuperBox @advocatux ^^
 👍
 Jejeje
 maybe yall should make me an admin too :)
 where did everyone go
 They ded 😇😇
 R.i.p all
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/ZSUcBBxk.webp
 They all moved to matrix?
 Guys
 The spam is gone
 Thanks Dalton!
 (Sticker, 512x420) https://irc.ubports.com/pDCyerfI.webp
 @AlexanderPlaza, No sorry, my connection to the matrix was bad. But now I am back
[14:56] <ubptgbot> •?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟• was added by: •?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•
 :(
[14:57] <ubptgbot> <•?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•> Hello guys
 @•?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•, Hi, welcome! Maybe you want to take a look to https://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed
 @advocatux, Hmm. Why is there no mention of the Code of Conduct on that page? Would probably be a good idea to mention it prominently with a direct link to it
[15:01] <ubptgbot> <•?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•> Am looking for some..... alternatives....looks supported devices are very limited....
 @dohbee, I don't know, maybe @wayneoutthere can tell you something about that
 Fix it @wayneoutthere :)
 @dohbee, +1
 Hello all. Wondering if there is a script (or a process) to back up my Nexus 5 with 15.04. I've seen a mention in the online docs, but the associated link points to a github project that is no longer maintained.
[15:37] <ubptgbot> Naresh Kumar was added by: Naresh Kumar
 @anime_ted, You can reboot it to recovery (Power + Volume Down held, use the volume buttons to select Recovery Mode, press power) and type the following:
 ```adb pull /data/user-data/ … adb pull /data/system-data/ … adb pull /data/android-data … ````
 [Edit] ```adb pull /data/user-data/ … adb pull /data/system-data/ … adb pull /data/android-data```
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/t4emUl1A.mp4
 @dohbee, good idea, Rodney, but I didn't just say you had a good idea for the records.
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/weJ08x5h.mp4
 @UniversalSuperBox, Sweet! Thanks! Is this in the docs anywhere? I feel like I've missed something obvious.
 It is not...
 OK. Thanks for the assist.
 And filed https://github.com/ubports/docs.ubports.com/issues/132
 Iam planning switch to 16.04 is the browser render prob fixed?
 It works for many websites, but no, the underlying issue has not been fixed
 You can download browser-ng to get the new QtWebEngine-based browser engine but it has its own quirks
 Yeah keyboard problem
 Yeah, that too
 @•?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•, Hi. Please change your profile picture to align with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct https://www.ubuntu.com/community/code-of-conduct , which the UBports community is expected to follow. Please read and respect this CoC when engaging in any UBports or Ubuntu related communities. Thanks.
[16:40] <ubptgbot> <•?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•> @dohbee, Buddy, another cup is coming😂
 Can I just say how blown away I am with the Cultural Showcase entries?
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/bZfyHnoD.png
 These are SHARP.
 @•?((¯°·._.• [Connor] •._.·°¯))؟•, This is not an appropriate reply to that request. Please be respectful.
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/ltoB2fub.webp
 eh? it specifies a pfp to be used?
 What?
 full funtion qwerty keyboard anyone?
 (Photo, 668x254) https://irc.ubports.com/qpTx41Ez.png
 I am still unclear on what you're talking about
 @Fuseteam, what are you on about?
 > Hi. Please change your profile picture to align with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct https://www.ubuntu.com/community/code-of-conduct , which the UBports community is expected to follow. Please read and respect this CoC when engaging in any UBports or Ubuntu related communities. Thanks. … this? 🤔
 ohw the image didn't upload yet rip
 @Fuseteam, The old one was not respectful, they changed it.
 my bad .-.
 So the issue is resolved
 ah i see
 oh, that's what you meant by pfp
 yeah i got that part haha
 Picture of an Arch coffee cup is not respectful? Did I miss the point?
 The old one
 The issue is resolved, there's no need to drag it out.
 lol yeah with pfp i mean profile picture
 Fuseteam, your messages are arriving a little late
 @UniversalSuperBox, it's probably matrix bridge slowdown awesomeness
 it appears so
 looks i asked two succesive questions too quickly 😂
[16:59] <ubptgbot> Mike_Show was added by: Mike_Show
 the second question refered to keyboard concept i sent
 @Fuseteam, without context i don't know what the concept is for. you're suggesting a redesign of the OSK? or for a hardware keyboard you're building?
 if the latter, i guess the OT group would be a better place to discuss that :)
 a software keyboard i'm pondering as i have no idea how to "built" it at this point
 so the former i believe hehe
 there's also a flick concept not many seem font of
 *flick version
 *fond
 fonts that flick sound like something i would indeed not be fond of
 lol 😂
 i mean a flick keyboard silly :joy
 like this for example
 (Photo, 661x236) https://irc.ubports.com/JY1kYhmT.png
 i think it was tap for the first up for the second right for the third down for the fourth and left for the fifth
 in which case a reordering probably should be in order hehe
 looks like a spreadsheet. so i have no idea what you're talking about :)
 i have no idea how to make it appear like a keyboard then lol
 unless i get myself an ut devices and figure out how to make an actual keyboard app hehe
 and screenshot it i suppose
 there is no way to have a separate keyboard application in UT
 you could perhaps try to add a new "language" to the existing keyboard stuff to try and implement your idea though
 i could i suppose
 but the first step would be to actually get a UT device 😂
 you can test the OSK on any PC with a touchscreen i guess
 but sure
 get to it already ;)
 i don't have a pc with a touchscreen ;-;
 i suppose i could try android but i don't want to give android an advantage 😂


[12:55] <Dante123> what are minimum requirements in terms of CPU, RAM, and HD space to run edubuntu well.....
[12:55] <LaserJock> Dante123: for an LTSP setup?
[01:26] <Dante123> what does ltsp stand for.....exactly......
[01:29] <LaserJock> Linux Terminal Server Project
[01:30] <Dante123> yes, i want to do that kind of install.....
[01:31] <LaserJock> how many clients will be connected to the server?
[01:54] <Dante123> likely 5 or so computers
[01:55] <LaserJock> well, probably at least 500MHz CPU, 1GB RAM, HD would be whatever you think people would use
[02:01] <Dante123> what kind of cpu.....pentium 3 okay....??
[02:01] <LaserJock> perhaps
[02:01] <LaserJock> I mean, it kinda depends on what you'll be running
[02:01] <LaserJock> and how well you want it to run
[02:02] <LaserJock> oh wait, maybe it's 1 GHz that you need
[02:02] <LaserJock> let me go see if I can find the official minimum requirements
[02:06] <LaserJock> Dante123: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-hw.html
[02:07] <LaserJock> Dante123: I think maybe I told you a lie about 500MHz
[02:07] <Dante123> so what is the truth??
[02:07] <LaserJock> well, it says 2GHz is good for 20 people
[02:08] <LaserJock> I think probably 1GHz might be ok for 5 but it would really depend on what they are running
[02:08] <LaserJock> thinks that are graphics intensive could be problems
[02:08] <LaserJock> *things
[02:10] <LaserJock> sorry about that, I've never actually run an LTSP server.
[02:15] <Dante123> hi....what are the minimum requirements for edubuntu or xubuntu as a desktop install???
[02:15] <Dante123> I have a pentium II....192 megs ram........3g partition......can it run either one decently....for browsing web etc.???
[02:21] <LaserJock> yeah, they will probably run
[02:21] <LaserJock> how fast is the pentium II?
[02:22] <Dante123> 350 mhz
[02:22] <LaserJock> I think I would recommend Xubuntu for that one
[02:22] <Dante123> it will run puppy linux fine.....but my kids like ubuntu....so I am hoping xubuntu will run okay on it
[02:22] <LaserJock> the hard drive is pretty small, but it should work
[02:23] <Dante123> I see minimum requirements.......and they mention mainly ram....but not much on CPU and speed....
[02:24] <LaserJock> yeah, CPU is much harder to put a limit on
[02:24] <LaserJock> I would use the Alternate CD for installation
[02:25] <LaserJock> that requires less RAM and is faster for the slower machines
[02:25] <Dante123> okay....will give that a try.......will xubuntu support games like netpanzer......that work on ubuntu right off the bat???
[02:26] <LaserJock> well, it's possible to run everything that Ubuntu runs
[02:27] <LaserJock> but you might run into hard drive limits and CPU limits for games
[02:29] <Dante123> if i have 192 ram.....i should be okay for netpanzer.....you still think I should download the alternate install.....is that mainly to save on install time???
[02:35] <LaserJock> well, it could
[02:35] <LaserJock> for the Desktop installer you have to boot up to a running system and then install
[02:35] <LaserJock> with the Alternate installer you can start installing right away
[02:36] <LaserJock> and some people with 192 RAM have experience problems with the Desktop installer
[02:55] <tekteen> Can someone help me with software modems on a toshiba laptop?
[11:00] <hmd64> hi
[11:01] <hmd64> any edubuntu based on XFCE for older computer?
[12:04] <peterlyberth> Hi ive made a test install of Edubuntu and a thin client, in vmware. Edubuntu boots fine, but the thin client stops at the edubuntu splash screen
[12:04] <peterlyberth> Got any idea why?
[12:06] <peterlyberth> I think i read somewhere that one person had some luck when he disabled the splash screen. But how is it i do that?
[12:14] <peterlyberth> Anyone?
[12:20] <peterlyberth> Do you need any info to help?(The conf file)
[12:31] <peterlyberth> hmm guess not
[12:57] <hmd64> hi
[01:00] <jsgotangco> yo!
[01:04] <hmd64>  I'm plane to make a mixture of edubuntu and xubuntu someting like tuxlab distro
[01:04] <hmd64> edubuntu is great but don't work nicely on older hardware
[01:05] <jsgotangco> really? is it because of the gnome desktop
[01:05] <hmd64> gonme is too heavy on network LTSP server
[01:05] <jsgotangco> right
[01:06] <hmd64> and also we need some simplification of the GUI for children
[01:08] <hmd64> IMHO edubuntu team has just made ubuntu+kdeedu+LTSP that's all
[01:09] <hmd64> that's not enough
[01:11] <jsgotangco> hmd64: we're completely aware of that
[01:11] <jsgotangco> we just don't have enough developers to make some radical changes, as well sa proper planning
[01:12] <hmd64> I know
[01:14] <jsgotangco> amd64 testing for instance, we only get something like 2 test volunteers
[01:15] <hmd64> I prefer to make changes inside edubuntu distro
[01:16] <hmd64> so it can reach a lot of people and to be shiped freely
[01:17] <hmd64> tuxlab has made a nice job but their distro is localised only for southafrica
[02:11] <hmd64> I'll join the edubuntu dev team to help
[05:47] <tuhl> anybody from Germany here?
[07:13] <humboldt>  is evms ready for production systems in 2.6 kernel?
[07:18] <hmd64> anyone?


[08:33] <bazhang> News, Venus and Involvement at Cloud Portal http://cloud.ubuntu.com/
[08:33] <MatBoy> nice
[08:34] <MatBoy> when installing a cloud, is this totally free ? so not like you have to pay for landscape ?
[08:39] <flaccid> what is landscape?
[08:40] <MatBoy> flaccid: http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/landscape
[08:41] <flaccid> UEC is just eucalyptus. i have not seen this but it just looks like a canonical commercial product
[08:41] <flaccid> eucalyptus is a buggy private cloud stack
[08:47] <MatBoy> flaccid: yes I would to avoid such buggy commercial stuff :)
[08:49] <flaccid> MatBoy: use cloudstack or openstack then
[08:52] <MatBoy> flaccid: yes reading on that... but you run that in your clouds ?
[09:11] <flaccid> MatBoy: i mainly use ec2
[09:11] <flaccid> i.e. a public cloud
[09:43] <MatBoy> flaccid: ok
[16:05] <Yuvaraj> Hello Kimo
[17:39] <ubuntu> whois ubuntu


 Ek het huidig net 'n paar gewone cron jobs
[06:48] <Kilos> ek bang al die diep goed
[06:48] <Kilos> hehe
[06:59] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:03] <Vince-0> Hii
[08:20] <Kilos> hi Xethron psychicist
[09:39] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[09:39] <Kilos> i see we got net splits again
[11:29] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[11:38] <Private_User> good day all
[11:43] <Private_User> just an update, I now tried installing Ubuntu 12.04 on my Desktop and the install seems to have succeeded. I say seems, because during the install it froze after at the end I clicked restart now so I had to perform a hard reset. It has booted into the system and there are no issues I can see
[11:44] <Private_User> but then I tries Lubuntu 13.10 and 12.10 and bith give me the same issue as Ubuntu 13.10
[11:44] <Private_User> so I tried 12.04 and that worked
[11:45] <Private_User> seems like these version 13.xx do not like my machine
[11:56] <Private_User> btw another question what is the max number of ubuntu distributions I can install on one HDD?
[12:23] <bduk> Hey dude it is Linux not windowzz you only need one
[12:31] <Kilos> lol
[12:32] <Kilos> Private_User, you can install a few if you have the space
[12:32] <Kilos> 12.04 is a bit lighter than 12.10 and up
[12:33] <Kilos> thats why im using it too
[12:34] <Kilos> my pc also sometimes doesnt do the restart now function
[12:34] <Kilos> other times it takes ages to actually get to restart
[12:34] <Kilos> much easier and quicker to use sudo reboot in the command line interface
[12:34] <Kilos> terminal that is
[12:35] <Kilos> shout if you need help
[12:36] <mazal> I might be wrong , but I think you can't have more than 4 primary partitions on a HDD. So in theory the limit is 4 OS's
[12:38] <Kilos> might be able to use more in extended partitions i think
[12:41] <Private_User> yo people, thanks for that
[12:41] <Kilos> but stick with 12.04 with them different distros then if you save the packages, you can use that for upgrading the others
[12:41] <Kilos> install synaptic
[12:42] <Kilos> lemme see how to save packages
[12:44] <Kilos> then open synaptic and tick on settings then preferences
[12:44] <Kilos> under files tick save all packages in the cache
[12:45] <Kilos> then ill give you commands to rsync them to storage or to a folder you want to save them in
[12:47] <Private_User> thanks Kilos
[12:47] <mazal> Bye everyone , enjoy your weekend
[12:47] <Kilos> yw
[12:47] <Kilos> cheers mazal
[12:47] <Kilos> be good
[12:47] <mazal> Ek sal try niks breek nie oom
[12:47] <Kilos> hehe
[12:47] <mazal> bye
[12:59] <Kilos> with your lappy being a faster pc you will most likely find it can work with later releases
[13:00] <Kilos> but lets first get you happy with 12.04
[13:12] <Private_User> yep but so far am very confused on which distro to settle with have seen now Ubuntu, Lubuntu and Kubuntu
[13:13] <Kilos> lol
[13:13] <Private_User> wondering if I should give Xubuntu a try as well
[13:13] <Kilos> i did its a lot like lubuntu if i member right
[13:13] <Kilos> but unity on 12.04 is lekker to start
[13:14] <Kilos> then my second choice is kubuntu
[13:14] <Private_User> ok but to confirm is it only the interfaces that are different?
[13:14] <Private_User> well thats what I could see
[13:15] <Kilos> yip just the graphics interface
[13:15] <Private_User> if they are all as powerfull as each other then I might as well just use the Ubuntu
[13:16] <Kilos> kubuntu is very powerful and has many tools i dont see in the others
[13:16] <Kilos> just takes a bit og getting used to
[13:16] <Kilos> of
[13:16] <Private_User> ok but any reason why Ubuntu does not see the full 512MB of ram?
[13:17] <Kilos> it should
[13:17] <Kilos> how is it running if it dont see it all
[13:17] <Private_User> and it also states that my CPU is an Intel Celeron not an Intel Pentium 4
[13:17] <Private_User> but Kubuntu seems to give the correct info
[13:17] <Kilos> celeron is P4
[13:18] <Kilos> wow did you get them all?
[13:18] <Kilos> all night downloading
[13:18] <Private_User> only Ubuntu, Lubuntu and Kubuntu
[13:18] <Private_User> yeah but wasted by downloading the versions greater than 12.04
[13:18] <Kilos> are you using one here now?
[13:19] <Kilos> we learn by our errors
[13:19] <Private_User> nope its all on my Desktop which is a standalone
[13:19] <Kilos> but faster pcs will work with them so keep them
[13:19] <Private_User> yeah will do
[13:20] <Kilos> you should come online with the desktop
[13:20] <Kilos> then its easier to copy/paste commands
[13:20] <Private_User> cool maybe I will share this internet connection
[13:21] <Kilos> oh you have a router?
[13:21] <Private_User> nope but I will use a direct cable connection from the desktop to the laptop
[13:21] <Kilos> hmm... thats tricky
[13:22] <Kilos> will need to use iptables i think
[13:22] <Kilos> drove me nuts that did
[13:22] <Private_User> yeah but better to try these tricky things so I can learn Ubuntu much much quicker then taking the easier route
[13:22] <Private_User> lol
[13:23] <Kilos> maybe the lappy will share easier
[13:23] <Private_User> yep will try it in a bit, brb
[13:23] <Kilos> if you can boot into the desktop you can just plug the modem in there
[15:16] <Kilos> ai!
[15:47] <Kilos> hmm... ThatGraemeGuy not going home?
[16:01] <Kilos> Maaz, office docs is <reply> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/
[16:01] <Maaz> Kilos: I'll remember that
[16:23] <Kilos> hi oupateddie welcome to ubuntu-za
[16:24] <oupateddie> Thanks
[16:24] <Kilos> the guys are all busy most of the time here but state your problem and sooner or later someone will point you in the right direction
[16:24] <oupateddie> Did not know of this IRC, but it'll load now when I enter freenode
[16:24] <oupateddie> Will do so now
[16:25] <oupateddie> Everytime I use Libre Office 4.1 on an Ubuntu 12.04 machine the Unity 2-D crashes and there is no top menu nor side Unity menu. Is this a problem with LO or perhaps Ubuntu?
[16:25] <Kilos> how did you get 4.1. im on 12.04 and only see 3.5
[16:29] <Kilos> ook hoe verder hulle vorder hoe beter pc het jy nodig
[16:30] <oupateddie> I down loaded 4.1.0 from the Libre Office site and installed it
[16:30] <oupateddie> You just load the ppa and update
[16:31] <oupateddie> then the update manager installes it for you all of about 184 mb
[16:31] <Kilos> whew
[16:31] <Kilos> i just started with office writer and nothing crashed yet
[16:34] <Kilos> but 3.5 comes in the repos so no ppa needed
[16:34] <Kilos> that might be your prob
[16:36] <oupateddie> mmmm
[16:37] <Kilos> you can actually try sudo aptitude reinstall ubuntu-desktop and see if it wants to download, then you arent upgraded properly
[17:37] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[17:37] <superfly> hi Kilos\
[18:13] <magespawn> Good evening all
[18:14] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[18:14] <Kilos> you work weekends too?
[18:14] <magespawn> How things Kilos?
[18:14] <magespawn> Yes saturdays only though
[18:14] <Kilos> good ty busting nogging with libreoffice writer
[18:15] <magespawn> Why? What is wrong?
[18:15] <Kilos> much too much to try remember
[18:15] <Kilos> nothing wrong yet
[18:16] <Kilos> learning from scratch
[18:16] <Kilos> never use any office stuff before
[18:16] <Kilos> used
[18:16] <Kilos> head much too small to fit all that in
[18:17] <magespawn> See if there is a cheat sheet or something, or quick reference
[18:18] <Kilos> managed to make a cover with scribus but heavy work putting text in so did text in office writer now to amalgamate them
[18:18] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:18] <Kilos> i got a lekker book but it has soooo much in
[18:18] <Kilos> and not in english
[18:19] <Kilos> old english
[18:19] <Kilos> dont find the word cover anywhere
[18:19] <Kilos> funny things like styles
[18:20] <magespawn> Scribus is a layout program
[18:20] <Kilos> i try one thing and mess up others
[18:21] <magespawn> Used for desktop publishing, when i have used i almost always found it better to do the text in writer
[18:21] <magespawn> That is how we learn
[18:22] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:22] <Kilos> and i save to wrong places and delete wrong things
[18:22] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:23] <Kilos> but im getting there
[18:23] <magespawn> Indeed
[18:24] <Kilos> we really got to do something about getting us better advertised
[18:24] <Kilos> met another bally also battling with office and 12.04 and he didnt know we existed
[18:24] <Kilos> his office crashes his unity
[18:27] <Kilos> how can za peeps use ubuntu , some for years , and not know about ubuntu-za
[18:28] <Kilos> shocking
[18:39] <magespawn> Makes we wonder how they get it.
[18:39] <magespawn> S/we/me
[18:40] <Kilos> i think just by checking everything irc with ubuntu in till one day they popup here
[18:47] <magespawn> I meant how do they get ubuntu
[18:48] <Kilos> oh, i havent asked yet. will start
[19:01] <Kilos> btw magespawn how did you find ubuntu and how did you get here
[19:29] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:35] <magespawn> Maaz tell Kilos I was given a Kubuntu 7.10 disc that did not work, and Googled from there.
[19:35] <Maaz> magespawn: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[19:37] <magespawn> Good night all
[21:18] <inetpro> good evening
[22:15] <Private_User> good evening/morning people
[22:16] <Private_User> I managed to get my ubuntu machine to communicatine with my windows machine :D
[22:16] <Private_User> *communicate


 A rollup was just released that brings any SP1 windows 7 machine up to current (april) https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2016/05/17/simplifying-updates-for-windows-7-and-8-1/
[20:05] <mrgoodcat> single update
[23:00] <jrwren> i wonder if that ends up being less in an SXS folder
[23:44] <Scary_Guy> I saw that, didn't feel like messing with it since I expect more issues than individual updates.  I'll let others test that first
[23:44] <Scary_Guy> thanks though
[23:48] <cmaloney> evening
[23:54] <Scary_Guy> hey, just about to cut out and go to Small's for their alt 80's night.  I'll catch you later


[16:25] <ailo> knome: I'll be in around from Sunday to Saturday, so I'll gladly join in on whatever Friday activities you had planned
[16:26] <knome> ailo, pleia2 wants to go to the zoo, and that works for me, as long as the weather isn't totally sucky
[16:26] <knome> ailo, i'm leaving friday night myself, so some restrictions on stuff
[16:27] <pleia2> elephants!
[16:27] <ailo> knome: I've never been there, so that might be fun. -- Aha :)
[16:27] <pleia2> I didn't see any in ghana, only monkeys (and goats and chickens...)
[16:27] <knome> pleia2, oh hi!
[16:28]  * pleia2 checks on flights
[16:28] <knome> pleia2, btw, we're having lunch with stgraber and highvoltage some day
[16:28] <pleia2> yay :D
[16:28] <knome> just had stgraber in PM
[16:29] <knome> maybe ailo should join us for the "flavor" lunch ;)
[16:29] <pleia2> knome: you wanted to chat before UDS, I'm thinking I can do that some time on friday
[16:30] <pleia2> I don't know when, my sleep schedule will be a mess
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, well i was thinking about the schedules generally
[16:30] <ailo> knome: Sure, why not? As long as they have a vegetarian flavors too
[16:30] <knome> ailo, i'm sure they do, that's the canonical offered lunch :)
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, and xubuntu sessions
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, is there some sessions where you want to be around?
[16:31] <knome> pleia2, if you could list me those, i could schedule the xubuntu sessions somewhere
[16:31] <pleia2> I need to look at the schedule...
[16:31] <knome> pleia2, yeah, and the thing is that it's constantly evolving
[16:31] <pleia2> but honestly the schedule is crazy and changes every 5 minutes even during uds
[16:31] <knome> pleia2, but i'll make sure i'll avoid at least the ubuntu women sessions
[16:31] <pleia2> yeah, the UW session should be on thursday
[16:32] <knome> pleia2, of course... but i'm thinking we should schedule 2-3 xubuntu sessions just to have some space to run them on
[16:32] <knome> (if we don't schedule, there might not be any rooms available)
[16:32] <pleia2> suppose I should go t othe leadership summit tuesday afternoon
[16:33] <pleia2> monday morning looks boring
[16:33] <knome> leadership mini-summit?
[16:33] <pleia2> yeah
[16:34] <pleia2> I need to talk dholbach into coming out of it with a document or something, it's been all echo-chamber at past UDSes and that makes me grumpy
[16:34] <knome> qa community planning!
[16:34] <knome> that's relatively interesting, and would be good to get to know balloons personally
[16:34] <pleia2> ah yeah, we should go to that
[16:35] <knome> pleia2, so there will be no free time for you tomorrow?
[16:35] <pleia2> it might move though, it's against another QA session
[16:35] <knome> yeah, i know
[16:35] <pleia2> I'm on an airplane mostly
[16:35] <knome> i should still register to it in launchpad
[16:35] <knome> are you going to readjust your sleeping rhythm meanwhile or just go with the EU timezones?
[16:36] <knome> MEH I SAY
[16:36] <knome> why isn't there no links to the LP blueprints from the uds schedule
[16:36] <knome> hard to register yourself to the sessions
[16:36] <pleia2> the messed up sleeping from the planes is making planning such things impossible
[16:36] <knome> oh, stars!
[16:36] <knome> heh
[16:37] <knome> oh cool
[16:37] <pleia2> so I fly out in 4 hours, I get home around midnight UTC
[16:37] <pleia2> thursday night/friday morning, 4PM local time in california
[16:38] <pleia2> it's a long ride home
[16:38] <knome> "testing in cadence" 16UTC monday?
[16:39] <knome> "brainstorming how future releases can be improved" 9UTC tuesday?
[16:39] <knome> "qa testing campaigns" 10UTC tuesday?
[16:40] <knome> "qa weather report" 12UTC tuesday?
[16:43] <knome> whole wednesday looks really boring
[16:44] <knome> "making community very obvious on the desktop" 10UTC wed
[16:44] <knome> or actually, CET
[16:44] <knome> is that different?
[16:44] <knome> whatever
[16:45] <pleia2> :)
[16:46] <pleia2> I just let the schedule land where it is, over-planning for UDS is just headachey
[16:46] <pleia2> subscribe to ones you want, it'll shuffle out somewhat reasonably
[16:46] <pleia2> and if there is a really serious conflict you can always talk to track leads, or make pleia2 go to a session and take notes :P
[16:47] <knome> lol
[16:47] <knome> i'm thinking that if we don't have really differing interests, it might benefit that we both go
[16:47] <pleia2> yeah
[16:47] <knome> i'm thinking i could attend the community roundtables on the mornings
[16:48] <pleia2> that's what I tend to do
[17:05] <apm1> why did you guys ship the 3.5 kernel in 12.10 ? any specific reason other than user's demand for newer hardware compatibility ?
[17:05] <knome> apm1, because ubuntu ships that.
[17:05] <knome> apm1, you got to remember not all decisions are done by the xubuntu team
[17:06] <apm1> knome, so you mindlessly follow ubuntu , that makes me wonder if you guys are really a different distro from ubuntu or you are just a spin off ?
[17:07] <knome> apm1, we are a spin off in a way; not following ubuntu in eg. kernel choices would mean massive amounts of work
[17:07] <knome> apm1, workforce is welcome
[17:09] <apm1> knome, so what you guys actually do is "take a ubuntu minimal and stick our own tweaked light-dm and xfce " and install some light end user apps ?
[17:09] <knome> apm1, something like that.
[17:09] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument has more details ;)
[17:10] <pleia2> but we are very clearly Ubuntu-based, we're just a "flavor" of Ubuntu
[17:10] <knome> yes, that's the idea
[17:10] <knome> :)
[17:10] <pleia2> (whether that means we're a different distro or not depends on how you define distro)
[17:13] <apm1> pleia2, depending on ubuntu is depending on canonical , depending on canonical = depending on a money centric co-orporation , i.e destroying the design philosophy of free software :(
[17:13] <knome> apm1, if you want to see it as that, then ok.
[17:13] <pleia2> your logic is very strange :)
[17:13] <apm1> honestly the way bodhi linux is going , i would love to see xubuntu doing that :)
[17:14] <pleia2> I work for a company and am paid for my debian work, so I guess I destroy it too
[17:14] <knome> apm1, why not just use bodhi linux, if they're doing it right?
[17:14] <knome> pleia2, traitor!!
[17:14] <pleia2> hehe
[17:15] <knome> we've never said we don't depend on ubuntu, or that we're trying to be something completely different
[17:15] <knome> the xubuntu website starts with the words: Xubuntu is a community‑developed, Ubuntu‑based ...
[17:16] <apm1> pleia2, no no earning money is not destroying free software but , implimanting features that ubuntu puts up to please more customers which subsequently bloats the distro that is destroying :(
[17:16]  * drc checks the clock to see if it's troll feeding time...nope...gets out the whip, chair and Indiana Jone's hat.
[17:16] <pleia2> drc: good point
[17:16] <knome> apm1, ubuntu isn't directly putting anything to xubuntu that makes them money.
[17:17] <knome> but drc and pleia2 are probably right.
[17:17]  * apm1 tells drc he is not trolling , and is willing to have an intellectual discussion
[17:17] <knome> apm1, what has ubuntu/canonical put in xubuntu that makes them money?
[17:17] <knome> apm1, or what bloats the system?
[17:17]  * drc points apm1 to #xubuntu-offtopic
[17:18] <apm1> knome, imho for starters 3.5 ubuntu devs compiled kernel :(
[17:18] <knome> drc, well i specifically directed him here. i'll tell him to go -offtopic when he gets offtopic ;)
[17:18] <drc> opps :(
[17:18] <knome> apm1, is being current bad?
[17:18] <knome> apm1, maybe you should use debian stable :)
[17:18] <apm1> eing unstable is bad , and i am using debian
[17:18] <drc> or slackware
[17:19] <knome> apm1, as i've said, maybe debian is "your" distro then :)
[17:20] <apm1> look guys i am not here to offend you , i was actually hoping to make an impression on your minds , that will help you choose the right tools for the next xubuntu release , don't see my words as an altercation starter but see them as a review stated directly to the devs :)
[17:21] <knome> apm1, i understand, but there isn't not much we can do about eg. kernel versions with this team
[17:23] <apm1> hypothetically ? if i decide to do the kernel work for xubuntu , and i do it stable enough will you guys then unanimously agree to drop the ubuntu inflicted kernel
[17:23] <knome> apm1, maybe. that needs to be discussed.
[17:23] <pleia2> honestly we barely have the dev power to keep the basics of xubuntu going as it is
[17:23] <knome> apm1, what's the goal in that, what's the reasoning behind that?
[17:23] <knome> apm1, why would we do that?
[17:23] <pleia2> so if you could recruit a kernel team we could consider it :)
[17:24] <apm1> knome, are you the xubuntu project lead ?
[17:24] <knome> apm1, i am
[17:25] <apm1> knome, are you also a canonical employee ?
[17:25] <knome> apm1, no.
[17:25] <knome> apm1, neither is pleia2, if you thought so.
[17:26] <apm1> knome, well sorry to doubt you , but if you guys are canonical free then we can talk abt getting a kernel team :)
[17:26] <apm1> hmm , so we would need stats first
[17:27] <knome> apm1, you would need to justify why we need another kernel first
[17:27] <apm1> knome, well because i think the current one isn't as stable
[17:28] <apm1> as the previous 3.2
[17:28] <knome> apm1, i've never had a kernel fail in ubuntu.
[17:28] <apm1> kernel panics on xubuntu made me switch to debian :(
[17:29] <knome> apm1, when you are justifying us why we need another kernel, please remember what our target group of users are too.
[17:29] <knome> apm1, you can read more on that, and lots of other topics, from the strategy document
[17:30] <apm1> look since you guys already have a strategy planned , then who am i to question it :(
[17:30] <pleia2> apm1: we also need more testers, always need more testers, if you have hardware that's prone to kernel panics you'd be a useful tester *before* releases
[17:30] <knome> apm1, we don't exactly have a kernel strategy, but the kernel stuff needs to be in line with the existing strategy.
[17:31] <pleia2> the secret benefit of testing is that your hardware works great at release time ;)
[17:31] <apm1> knome, but you biggest strategy point of "being ubuntu compliant" will interfere with that :(
[17:31] <knome> yeah, with non-ubuntu kernel we'd need a lot more testers, we're struggling to do even the basic testing now
[17:32] <knome> apm1, in that case, you probably shouldn't waste your time with xubuntu
[17:32] <knome> apm1, i mean, all the things point that we are really close to ubuntu, even the distro/flavor name!
[17:32] <apm1> ok then i shall leave you guys now in peace , sorry to bother you :)
[17:32] <knome> np
[17:33] <bluesabre_> O.O
[17:33] <knome> bluesabre?:)
[17:33] <bluesabre_> hiya knome!
[17:33] <knome> astraljava, there's some wacky smiley for you ^
[17:34] <bluesabre_> hiya pleia2
[17:35] <bluesabre_> I wouldn't mind working for canonical, if they paid me to do xubuntu stuff :)
[17:35] <knome> heh
[17:36] <bluesabre_> getting ready for UDS?
[17:36]  * pleia2 off to airport
[17:36] <knome> slowly
[17:36] <knome> pleia2, have a good flight!
[17:40] <mr_pouit> they can't even pay a real release manager anymore, so I doubt they would pay for xubuntu :{
[17:41] <knome> heh, yeah
[17:41] <knome> and they aren't paying for kubuntu either
[17:41] <knome> and i'm not sure it's about being able to pay
[19:03] <astraljava> knome: Now you're just showing off.
[19:03] <astraljava> wut?! Can'
[19:04] <astraljava> sry, "can't pay a real release manager?"
[20:08] <knome> astraljava, skaet is not paid by canonical for R
[20:08] <knome> bbl


[13:50] <jjfrv8> so I got bug 1502732 marked public, now which one do I mark as a dupe?
[13:50] <jjfrv8> That one was for Thunar 1.6.10-1 on wily, mine was 1.6.10-2 on both wily and xenial. but both the same segfault.
[17:03] <dholbach> hiya
[17:04] <dholbach> the CC is catching up with the Xubuntu team in #ubuntu-meeting right now
[17:04] <dholbach> can anyone answer a few questions for the team?
[17:05] <dholbach> bluesabre, ochosi, Noskcaj_, ^?
[17:05] <cyphermox> flocculant: ^
[17:05] <dholbach> thanks cyphermox - I was sure I was missing the most important people :-)
[17:16] <flocculant> cyphermox: seemingly not anymore :)
[17:16] <cyphermox> moo?
[17:16] <flocculant> entirely possible
[17:16] <flocculant> :)
[17:17]  * flocculant wanders away from -meeting again
[17:17] <cyphermox> wonderful. I knew it
[17:17] <flocculant> ha ha
[17:17] <flocculant> I of course know moo as ermintrude
[17:17] <flocculant> being old
[17:18] <dholbach> flocculant: what?
[17:18] <dholbach> sorry
[17:18] <flocculant> dholbach: what what?
[17:18] <dholbach> we just thought that nobody froom Xubuntu was around
[17:18] <dholbach> which is why we moved on to somebody from the Ubuntu Studio team
[17:18] <flocculant> I wasn't - just got home :)
[17:18] <dholbach> sorry
[17:18] <flocculant> yep - I know the score and how it works ;)
[17:19] <dholbach> we can change back to Xubuntu in a bit again, no worries :)
[17:19] <cyphermox> flocculant: ermintrude was over 1400 years ago :)
[17:19] <flocculant> dholbach: ok - not sure anyone else is about - but I know more or less what's up for us
[17:20] <dholbach> great :)
[17:20] <dholbach> let's chat in a bit then
[17:20] <flocculant> cyphermox: well the early 70s seems that long ago :p
[19:18] <dkessel> Oh, quite some lines about Xubuntu in #ubuntu-meeting ...
[19:20] <flocculant> well yes
[19:20] <flocculant> it was our turn :p


[00:58] <infinity> slangasek: That ipmitool upload was redundant with the Debian upload that did s/c99/gnu99/
[00:58] <infinity> slangasek: Neither or which seem to actually fix the problem...
[00:59] <infinity> Or maybe I read the header wrong...
[01:02] <infinity> slangasek: Well, the second one worked. :P
[01:02] <infinity> But man that source is a mess.
[01:02] <infinity> grep a build log for "implicit" and be prepared to cry.
[01:21] <tsimonq2> infinity: aww come on, it's not THAT bad :D http://paste.ubuntu.com/15516741/
[01:21] <tsimonq2> only 21 different lines... :D
[01:51] <slangasek> infinity: so c99->gnu99 definitely didn't make getpass() available.  Somehow it worked on amd64 but not on s390x.
[01:51] <slangasek> that change did fix other missing prototypes, but not this one - probably because getpass() is so crap
[01:56] <slangasek> stokachu: I've looked at the conjure package in NEW; I think I'm going to reject it on the grounds that it has an unsatisfiable build-dependency on bundle-placer which I don't see anywhere
[01:58] <slangasek> stokachu: (it has other issues too, which we can discuss when you're around; that's the only one that's a blocker)
[02:47] <stokachu> slangasek: OK I can fix the build dep, what were the other issues
[05:29] <slangasek> stokachu: debian/copyright's header seems to point to wrong things (upstream-name and source); you don't need a separate 'Files: debian/*' stanza if everything is under the same license and copyright holder; and there are some grammar fixes to be made to the package description in debian/control ("apt-installable"; "conjure's"; "Conjure, an interface to")
[20:17] <slangasek> anyone know anything about the stack of ruby test failures in update_excuses?  infinity ?
[20:17] <slangasek> (some way for me to give them back that would get them to clear?)
[20:35] <infinity> I know nothing.  Is it still that gemspec thing?
[20:37] <infinity> I had the impression that gem2deb 0.30.1 should have addressed that, but clearly not.
[20:38] <infinity> Likely warrant real investigation rather than haphazard syncing and hoping.
[20:38] <infinity> s/warrant/warrants/


[18:40] <reap> Hello
[22:11] <hierbabuena> Hello, guys. A few days ago I came here to report a problem I was having with a serial mouse in Lubuntu 20.04. Well, fortunately, I managed to find a workaround solution by creating a systemd service that invokes inputattach. If you'd like the details, I can post it here.
[22:11] <hierbabuena> However, today I came because, although I can select for the default updater to just tell me if a new update is available before installing it, it doesn't tell me in advance what is going to be updated. Is there a way to make it do it?
[22:19] <ad33l> groetjes