[01:06] <zul> echo echo
[03:23] <zul> its usually quiet tonight
[03:24] <crimsun> yes, it is usually quiet ;-)
[03:24] <zul> er...UNusually
[03:33] <jbailey> Most of the usual culprits are testing the array stuff.  I'm completing an install so that I can test md stuff.
[03:33] <crimsun> I'm tackling a weird usb sound issues and trying to push through the rest of the Python 2.4 transition
[03:33] <crimsun> issue, rather
[03:34] <zul> what sound issue?
[03:34] <crimsun> a disconnect issue that was fixed in -28 via the alsa patch
[03:50] <zul> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelBazNotes
[03:52] <crimsun> register-archive, no?
[03:52] <crimsun> (updated)
[03:52] <zul> oh crap...i think i should go to beed soon
[03:52] <zul> yes..bed..
[04:01] <zul> hmmm...lets see what rhel 4 have
[04:13] <zul> later
[06:06] <fabbione> morning
[06:58] <lamont> morning fabbione
[06:59] <fabbione> hey lamont
[07:54] <svenl> fabbione: ARG.
[07:54] <fabbione> svenl: ?
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: i forgot to remove the non-powerpc configs yesterday, and it has not finished building :/
[07:55] <fabbione> ah ok
[07:55] <svenl> (its at power4-smp though)
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: did you get my email ?
[07:55] <fabbione> don't worry.. i am already building on our buildd
[07:55] <fabbione> yes i did
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: with my patch ?
[07:55] <svenl> patches even ?
[07:55] <fabbione> i am buildining only the driver patches
[07:55] <fabbione> not the initrd thingy
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: why not both ?
[07:56] <fabbione> because i need to test one thing at a time :-)
[07:56] <fabbione> and see if one of them break
[07:56] <fabbione> it makes it easier for me
[07:56] <svenl> fabbione: bah.
[07:56] <fabbione> svenl: i will add it immediatly after this build cycle
[07:56] <fabbione> it's not an upload
[07:57] <fabbione> + everything is ccached
[07:57] <fabbione> it takes only 30 minutes or so to build *
[07:57] <fabbione> i promised to look at both of them
[07:57] <fabbione> and i am doing it
[07:57] <fabbione> so i don't see what the problem is
[07:57] <svenl> fabbione: they are two different things, the driver thingy will build you the modules, while the mkinitrd support thingy will copy stuff into the kernel-image.
[07:57] <svenl> i want a build box like yours :)
[07:58] <fabbione> i know they are 2 different things. but since we have a policy to do atomic commits
[07:58] <fabbione> i test A and commit A
[07:58] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[07:58] <fabbione> i add B -> test B -> commit B
[07:58] <fabbione> it is seriously 100 times easier for me
[07:59] <fabbione> svenl: that box is nothing special.. the ccache i have is
[07:59] <svenl> ok then, you have a fast box anyway.
[07:59] <svenl> you have a fast ccache ?
[07:59] <fabbione> well i have a fast disk with the ccache already full
[07:59] <fabbione> so it becomes fast
[08:00] <fabbione> processor       : 0
[08:00] <fabbione> cpu             : PPC970FX, altivec supported
[08:00] <fabbione> clock           : 2000MHz
[08:00] <fabbione> + 2GB of ram
[08:00] <fabbione> and 500 or more GB of disk
[08:03] <svenl> fabbione: well, trick has 8GB of ramand who knows how much disk space.
[08:04] <svenl> fabbione: saddly we can't use it for upload-related development.
[08:04] <fabbione> why not?
[08:05] <svenl> we have not full control over the box, so we cannot use it to build packages to upload.
[08:05] <fabbione> i see...
[08:05] <fabbione> suckage
[08:05] <svenl> as soon as i have time, i will use it to do ppc64 kernels though.
[08:06] <svenl> and hopefully i will get a virtual cpu on it someday.
[08:06] <fabbione> you will need a libc6-64 and gcc-64 first
[08:06] <fabbione> doko is working on those afaik
[08:06] <svenl> waldi already compiled a biarch toolchain two days ago.
[08:06] <fabbione> i know doko had them for a while
[08:07] <fabbione> not sure where tho
[08:07] <fabbione> but i am sure they have been working together on it
[08:07] <svenl> fabbione: just the compiler, but with suse headers.
[08:07] <svenl> ok need to go, see you.
[08:07] <fabbione> cya
[08:17] <svenl> fabbione: i wonder if it is possible to share a ccache cache setup with a chroot ?
[08:21] <fabbione> yes it is
[08:21] <fabbione> just use a dedicated partition that you mount under .ccache
[08:21] <fabbione> and share it between chroots
[08:21] <fabbione> it's up to you where you mount it
[08:21] <fabbione> you have the env var to define it
[08:22] <fabbione> just remember that you need to have the same UID under both the chroots
[08:38] <fabbione>   Changes by Sven Luther:
[08:38] <fabbione>   * Fix mv643xx driver for powerpc:
[08:38] <fabbione>     - Add patches powerpc-mv643xx-enet.dpatch and powerpc-mv643xx-eth-pegasos.dpatch.
[08:38] <fabbione>     - Obsolete patch marvell-pegasos-2.dpatch.
[08:42] <fabbione> svenl: testing the initrd thingy...
[08:42] <fabbione> how can i verify that it actually did something?
[09:11] <svenl> fabbione: do you have a /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-powerpc ?
[09:11] <fabbione> svenl: i will in a short time..
[09:11] <fabbione> it's building with the mkwhatever patch
[09:27] <svenl> fabbione: what version of mkvmlkinuz do you have ?
[09:31] <fabbione> the one you have sent to me via email
[09:50] <svenl> fabbione: the mkvmlinuz package, not the patch ?
[09:51] <fabbione> no idea....
[09:51] <fabbione> let me check
[09:52] <fabbione> 12
[09:52] <fabbione> but it is not installed
[09:52] <fabbione> is it required as build-dep?
[09:59] <svenl> can you get mkvmlinuz 13 instead ?
[09:59] <svenl> altough not sure, it is more cosmetic.
[09:59] <fabbione> no
[09:59] <fabbione> we are in UVF
[09:59] <fabbione> and that package is in main
[09:59] <svenl> mkvmlinuz 13 installs a postinst hook which asks the user.
[09:59] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[10:00] <svenl> no problem, you don't really need mkvmlinuz, and it is just dead code right now.
[10:00] <fabbione> ok
[10:01] <svenl> but make sure you mention this to me post-release as there will be some things to check, which may not be identic in debian and in ubuntu.
[10:01] <svenl> version 13, it asks for a debconf variable, if you want to use mkvmlinuz to create the vmlinuz kernel, nothing more.
[10:01] <svenl> (and adds support for 2.4 kernel, but you don't care about this).
[10:02] <fabbione> svenl: after a release, a script is executed to sync * from unstable
[10:02] <fabbione> so we will see what is in unstable after hoary
[10:03] <svenl> fabbione: version 13 is in testing.
[10:10] <svenl> fabbione: when will you have the package for me to test ?
[10:14] <fabbione> svenl: it doesn't matter if it is in testing or not
[10:14] <fabbione> we are too close to release to get a new upstream version
[10:14] <fabbione> and i am quite busy right now....
[10:14] <fabbione> i will let you know when they are ready
[10:16] <svenl> fabbione: i said it is in testing, so we will have at least that in unstable after hoary.
[10:17] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/ppc-diff
[10:17] <fabbione> this is the output of debdiff
[10:17] <fabbione> first deb is the old
[10:17] <fabbione> second deb is the patched one
[10:17] <svenl> Mmm.
[10:18] <svenl> the script removes the .coff.
[10:18] <fabbione> i don't like the fact that the /boot/vmlinux.coff-2.6.10-5-powerpc has been removed
[10:18] <svenl> I am not sure you want that, but i seriously doubt you are interested in the .coff.
[10:18] <fabbione> and it installs in kernel-image
[10:18] <fabbione> while it whould be linux-image
[10:18] <svenl> yep, but this is only because kernel-package is years outdated.
[10:18] <fabbione> uh?
[10:19] <svenl> fabbione: you can generate the .coff with mkvmlinuz if you really want.
[10:19] <svenl> fabbione: the .coff is something that predates both quik and yaboot.
[10:19] <svenl> fabbione: nobody uses it anymore.
[10:19] <fabbione> svenl: well i am not going to break ppc. we can remove it AFTER hoary
[10:19] <svenl> and like said, you can spare yourself the 1-2MB * 6 of space, since mkvmlinuz allows you to generate it.
[10:20] <svenl> fabbione: please ask Kamion first, but you can comment out one line in postinst-install.powerpc to keep it.
[10:20] <svenl> fabbione: but seriously, the .coff thingy is for a kernel which can be booted on oldworld pmacs through the serial console.
[10:20] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/
[10:20] <fabbione> the images are there
[10:20] <svenl> fabbione: do you really envision a ubuntu/powerpc user doing that ?
[10:20] <fabbione> svenl: listen.. i don't need to know all the history of ppc
[10:20] <fabbione> and i don't really care
[10:21] <fabbione> right now i have 2 problems:
[10:21] <fabbione> 1) do not break the kernel
[10:21] <svenl> fabbione: ok, fine with you, just uncoment the line, ok ?
[10:21] <fabbione> 2) fix major bug fixes
[10:21] <fabbione> svenl: please just update the patch and send it to me
[10:21] <svenl> fabbione: it is just cruft because kenrel-package was never updates since ages.
[10:21] <fabbione> oh perfect
[10:21] <fabbione> ops
[10:21] <svenl> fabbione: come on.
[10:21] <fabbione> ECHAN
[10:21] <fabbione> that was for Jane
[10:22] <svenl> edit postinst-install.powerpc, and put a # before the line which says rm .... .coff.
[10:22] <svenl> fabbione: do you really want a patch from me ?
[10:23] <fabbione> ok done
[10:23] <fabbione> and changed the thing to linux-
[10:23] <svenl> fabbione: that said, mdz mentioned space problems on the powerpc isos, so i would check before removing this.
[10:24] <svenl> it may well be worth it to save almost 10MB of archive space, not sure.
[10:24] <svenl> but then you can always uncoment the line later on.
[10:25] <fabbione> Victor Ferns<EMAIL_ADDRESS><- right?
[10:25] <fabbione> AMEN
[10:25] <fabbione> i am too busy now...
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: mmm, come to think of it, there is no chance of the .coff kernel being usefull, since it doesn't include the initrd,.
[10:25] <fabbione> i need to do one thing at a time...
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: no problem.
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: do you want me to mention this to Kamion/mdz and ask them if it is worthwhile ?
[10:25] <fabbione> yes please
[10:26] <fabbione> i am not the ppc porter
[10:26] <svenl> Ok, will do.
[10:26] <svenl> hehe.
[10:26] <fabbione> i need people to work on it
[10:26] <fabbione> without me
[10:26] <svenl> post-hoary i may take over that job for kernel stuff maybe.
[10:42] <svenl> fabbione: ok, installed the kernel and rebooting, i generated the mkvmlinuz kernel, will try to boot it directly.
[10:43] <svenl> fabbione: rebooted kernel worked.
[10:43] <svenl> mmm, i think we didn't enable the config option for the marvell gigabit ethernet driver :/
[10:44] <fabbione> yes we did
[10:44] <fabbione> the driver is there
[10:45] <fabbione> or did they changed again?
[10:45] <svenl> fabbione: well, i think it doesn't get autoloaded by hotplug.
[10:45] <svenl> mmm.
[10:46] <fabbione> that is something that was fixed in the marvel-pegagos2.dpatch
[10:46] <svenl> fabbione: ah, will look at the patch, this means we need an additional patching step.
[10:50] <svenl> you sure ? I just looked at the marvel-pegasos2 dpatch from .27, and there is nothing in there relative to hotplug ?
[10:51] <fabbione> no i am not sure
[10:53] <svenl> fabbione: can i access the kernel's changes list or something ?
[10:53] <fabbione> svenl: there is no kernel changes list
[10:53] <fabbione> we have 2 ml
[10:53] <fabbione> kernel-team and kernel-bugs
[10:54] <svenl> fabbione: the one from the revision system repo (arch i think).
[10:54] <fabbione> the latter collects all the stuff from the bug reports
[10:54] <fabbione> there is none...
[10:54] <fabbione> we don't have a ml with changes
[10:54] <fabbione> there is only the repo
[10:54] <fabbione> at the URL in /topic
[10:54] <svenl> fabbione: i mean the arch equivalent to svn log.
[10:55] <fabbione> svenl: yes. you can access it doing a baz get of the archive in /topic
[10:55] <svenl> baz ?
[10:56] <fabbione> or tla
[10:56] <fabbione> doesn't matter
[10:56] <svenl><EMAIL_ADDRESS>this one ?
[10:56] <fabbione> yes. register THAT archive
[10:56] <fabbione> and get the branch pre29 in topic
[11:07] <svenl> mmm, need a crash course in tla :/
[11:13] <svenl> damn, all that and the module doesn't seem to work as it should :/
[11:14] <svenl> fabbione: no need to do an upload, i need to fix it first, and get the hotplug stuff worked out.
[11:14] <fabbione> i am not going to upload until it is fixed
[11:14] <svenl> ok.
[11:15] <svenl> this will need more backport work, will not do this until this evening or tomorrow.
[11:15] <svenl> fabbione: what tla command do you use to do the checkout ?
[11:16] <fabbione> did you register the archive first?
[11:16] <svenl> fabbione: i never used tla.
[11:17] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-kernel-2005-03-15.html
[11:17] <fabbione> svenl: read there what lamont told to zul
[11:18] <fabbione> you should be able to do s/baz/tla/
[11:24] <svenl> fabbione: thanks.
[11:24] <svenl> fabbione: i am baffled, the driver works fine on 2.6.11, but fails in 2.6.10, need to look in details.
[11:28] <svenl> mmm, didn't work
[11:28] <svenl>  tla make-archive<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:29] <svenl> usage: tla make-archive [options]  [name]  location
[11:29] <svenl> i am baffled.
[11:29] <svenl> later though, need to go now.
[11:29] <fabbione> svenl: just look at tla register-archive and tla get
[11:29] <fabbione> you don't need to create your own archive
[11:29] <fabbione> otherwise install bazaar
[11:29] <fabbione> and make your life simpler
[11:30] <svenl> $ tla register-archive<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:30] <svenl> arch_archive_connect: attempt to connect to incompatible archive
[11:30] <fabbione> than you need baz
[11:30] <svenl> oh well, will try again later.
[11:30] <svenl> baz is in ubuntu/hoary, right ?
[11:30] <fabbione> yes afaik it is also in debian
[11:30] <svenl> E: Couldn't find package baz
[11:30] <fabbione> package bazaar
[11:30] <svenl> no it doesn't seem to be.
[11:30] <svenl> oh, ok.
[12:58] <fabbione> svenl: can you give me the changelog entry so i can commit the changes?
[12:59] <svenl> fabbione: added support files for mkvmlinuz
[12:59] <svenl> or do you want something more formal or more complete ?
[12:59] <svenl> maybe "mkvmlinuz support files added" even.
[01:00] <svenl> or mkvmlinuz support files added (Sven Luther)
[01:00] <svenl> don't know what the policy is.
[01:00] <fabbione> +  * Add support files for mkvmlinuz.
[01:00] <fabbione> same as X
[01:00] <fabbione> imperative form
[01:00] <fabbione> or whatever is called
[01:01] <svenl> Ok.
[01:01] <svenl> what about attribution ?
[01:01] <fabbione> you are already credited :-)
[01:01] <fabbione> dude....
[01:01] <svenl> ok, cool.
[01:01] <fabbione> i am NOT a PUNKASS!
[01:01] <svenl> just curious.
[01:01] <fabbione>   Changes by Sven Luther:
[01:01] <fabbione>   * Fix mv643xx driver for powerpc:
[01:01] <fabbione>     - Add patches powerpc-mv643xx-enet.dpatch and powerpc-mv643xx-eth-pegasos.dpatch.
[01:01] <fabbione>     - Obsolete patch marvell-pegasos-2.dpatch.
[01:01] <fabbione>   * Add support files for mkvmlinuz.
[01:01] <fabbione> + some spaces that IRC cuts away
[01:02] <svenl> hehe.
[01:02] <fabbione> i do always respect credits
[01:02] <fabbione> if i miss one it's for a mistake
[01:02] <svenl> quite verboser than the debian changelog format, but hey.
[01:02] <fabbione> i am paranoid on changelog
[01:03] <svenl> well, the debian kernel changelog adopted the other form, because Jens vetoed the above (or rather d-i) format
[01:04] <svenl> claimed it did loose ordering of changes.
[01:05] <fabbione> that's because he has no clue on how to use a RCS
[01:05] <svenl> fabbione: bah, he is inactive now anyway.
[01:06] <fabbione> if you know how to use an RCS properly, there is no need to preserve the order of changes in the changelog
[01:06] <svenl> fabbione: provided all users who are interested need to know how to handle said RCS properly and have access too.
[01:06] <svenl> fabbione: i did the baz registering, how is the baz get done ?
[01:07] <fabbione> baz get<EMAIL_ADDRESS>debian
[01:07] <fabbione> it will get the archive for the debian/ dir
[01:07] <fabbione> since it's the only one under rcs
[01:08] <svenl> thanks, altough i doubt the hotplug patch was ever included, i think.
[01:09] <fabbione> afaik adding hotplug support is very simple
[01:09] <fabbione> you need a table and one export of a function
[01:09] <fabbione> pretty simple
[01:09] <fabbione> just check how other drivers do that
[01:09] <svenl> yep.
[01:10] <svenl> fabbione: but the mv643xx_eth driver is not a pci driver, so ...
[01:10] <svenl> fabbione: how do i check the log or changeset of a file in baz ?
[01:10] <fabbione> baz help
[01:11] <fabbione>                  logs : list patch logs for a version in a project tree
[01:11] <fabbione> baz logs --summary
[01:12] <fabbione> for the short logs
[01:17] <svenl> WARNING: no rule found for checking signatures from<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:17] <svenl>   Consider creating<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:17] <svenl>   or ~/.arch-params/signing/=default.check
[01:17] <svenl> PANIC: Unhandled arguments. Did you forget to use -r or -d?
[01:17] <svenl> its not helpfull, and baz help seems pretty useless to me :/
[01:18] <svenl> mmm,
[01:19] <fabbione> svenl: hold on.. you need to files to allow gpg checking of each commit
[01:20] <fabbione> cat ~/.arch-params/signing/\=\=default.check
[01:20] <fabbione> gpg --verify-files -
[01:21] <fabbione> cat<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:21] <fabbione> gpg --default-key 63549F8E --clearsign
[01:21] <fabbione> of course you need to change the keyid
[01:21] <fabbione> but you don't have commit access on our repo
[01:22] <fabbione> so it's kinda pointless
[01:22] <svenl> yep.
[01:22] <svenl> let's forget it.
[01:22] <svenl> for now.
[01:30] <svenl> about hotplug, do you have a hint of the name of the structure or whatever ?
[01:30] <fabbione> svenl: just check any other driver
[01:30] <fabbione> it's a table with the pci ids
[01:30] <fabbione> almost impossible to miss
[01:34] <svenl> something like this :
[01:34] <svenl> static struct pci_device_id rhine_pci_tbl[]  =
[01:34] <svenl> {
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3043, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* VT86C100A */
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3065, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* VT6102 */
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3106, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* 6105{,L,LOM} */
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3053, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* VT6105M */
[01:34] <svenl>         { }     /* terminate list */
[01:34] <fabbione> yes
[01:34] <svenl> };
[01:34] <fabbione> that is correct
[01:34] <svenl> i have such a one for doing a pci_dev_present thingy.
[01:34] <fabbione> and there is an export of that table
[01:35] <svenl> so the hotplug is either :
[01:35] <svenl> MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE(pci, rhine_pci_tbl);
[01:35] <fabbione> if you grep for rhine_pci_tbl
[01:35] <svenl> or :
[01:35] <svenl> static struct pci_driver rhine_driver = {
[01:35] <svenl>         .name           = DRV_NAME,
[01:35] <svenl>         .id_table       = rhine_pci_tbl,
[01:35] <svenl>         .probe          = rhine_init_one,
[01:35] <svenl>         .remove         = __devexit_p(rhine_remove_one),
[01:35] <svenl> #ifdef CONFIG_PM
[01:35] <fabbione> yeah  exactly
[01:35] <svenl>         .suspend        = rhine_suspend,
[01:35] <svenl>         .resume         = rhine_resume,
[01:35] <svenl> #endif /* CONFIG_PM */
[01:35] <svenl>         .driver = {
[01:35] <fabbione> it depends how is the driver
[01:35] <svenl>                 .shutdown = rhine_shutdown,
[01:35] <svenl>         }
[01:36] <svenl> };
[01:36] <svenl> thanks will investigate.
[01:36] <fabbione> i know both ways work
[01:36] <svenl> fabbione: its a none-pci-driver :/
[01:36] <fabbione> well.. i have no idea of non pci driver
[01:36] <svenl> but will ask around, i even know the guy to ask.
[01:36] <fabbione> check how it is done in other non-pci drivers
[01:36] <svenl> but he is in awake-at-midnight timezone
[01:38] <svenl> Mmm, i think it is more complicated because the driver is no pci driver, but i will investigate.
[02:10] <mjg59> svenl: What sort of driver is it?
[02:11] <mjg59> The .id_table field is used by the kernel at driver load time - it goes through every device in the system, and calls .probe against each device that matches the contents of the table
[02:11] <mjg59> MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE is used to export the information at build time
[02:11] <svenl> mjg59: the pegasos marvell northbridge gigabit ethernet driver. It is outside of the pci bus.
[02:11] <svenl> mjg59: the driver works, but i need to get hotplug to automatically load it.
[02:11] <mjg59> Right. What sort of driver does it declare itself as being?
[02:12] <mjg59> (As in, what's the type of the struct that contains the .probe and .remove functions)
[02:15] <mjg59> svenl: Which driver is this? mv643xx?
[02:16] <mjg59> If so, it doesn't seem to use the new driver model. There's no way to get it loaded via hotplug.
[02:17] <svenl> mv643xx_eth
[02:18] <mjg59> Yeah. It looks like you're out of luck.
[02:18] <svenl> mjg59: huh ?
[02:18] <svenl> mjg59: well, we can adapt it, where can i find good info on the hotplug infrastructure ?
[02:19] <mjg59> Documentation/driver-model/
[02:20] <svenl> ok, thanks.
[02:26] <zul> hey
[02:50] <lamont> morning
[02:51] <zul> hey lamont how is it gonig?
[02:51] <fabbione> morning lamont
[02:51] <zul> hey fabbione
[02:52] <fabbione> hi zul
[02:54] <fabbione> we can be funny here.. right?
[02:54] <zul> of course
[02:54] <zul> most of us have a sense of humor except for lamont
[02:54] <zul> and maybe jbailey
[02:55] <jbailey> zul: I have no sense of humor.  I'm Canadian.
[02:55] <jbailey> zul: We have a sense of 'humour'.
[02:56] <zul> jbailey: well excuse me i went to an american high school
[02:56] <zul> fabbione: lol
[02:58] <lamont> ENOTROUT
[02:59] <jbailey> It's all I have to offer, sorry.
[02:59] <lamont> zul: my sense of humor is merely misunderstood. :-)
[02:59] <lamont> jbailey: yum
[02:59] <jbailey> You can carve it to look like a trout.
[03:00] <zul> heh
[03:06] <zul> hey guys do you want to dump the 2.5 stuff in universe?
[03:06] <zul> er...2.4
[03:07] <fabbione> http://www.getoffmynuts.com/gallery/images/chefno.jpg
[03:07] <fabbione> aahah that looks so much like me
[03:07] <jbailey> zul: It's probably a good idea.  I know that the initrd-tools stuff that I've done hasn't been tested against 2.4 at all
[03:07] <jbailey> fabbione: OooOooOoo!
[03:07] <zul> heh its dom delouise
[03:07] <jbailey> That could be the "Kernel Strike Force" page to go against the XSF one. =)
[03:08] <fabbione> jbailey: i am kinda part of both.. you know?
[03:08] <fabbione> but we can do something funny
[03:08] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes, well, we forgive you. =)
[03:08] <dholbach> hi
[03:08] <zul> dholbach: im thinking dump the 2.4 stuff since its not really supported afiak
[03:09] <dholbach> zul: don't let fabbione hear that :-)
[03:09] <dholbach> zul: i had the whole lot on wiki/MorgueCandidates already, when he stopped me :-)
[03:09] <zul> ah..
[03:09] <zul> fabbione: wanna comment?
[03:09] <dholbach> we're talking about the "kernel" section on wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps
[03:10] <fabbione> zul: yes. we need to have at least one version of 2.4 around in universe
[03:10] <fabbione> supported or not
[03:10] <zul> k
[03:10] <fabbione> because there are some admin that are pretty conservative
[03:10] <fabbione> or cannot upgrade a kernel to 2.6
[03:10] <fabbione> (like me)
[03:10] <dholbach> but we could chuck out stuff like kernel-patch-2.4.26-m68k
[03:11] <jbailey> fabbione: They'll probably see errors on their screen with the initrd-tools changes if they downgrade from a new install.
[03:11] <fabbione> dholbach: you kidding right?
[03:11] <fabbione> dholbach: i am porting ubuntu to m68k
[03:11] <fabbione> !
[03:11] <fabbione> jbailey: i am more concerned about people upgrading from woody
[03:11] <fabbione> dholbach: just kidding.. kill it
[03:12] <jbailey> fabbione: I think that case will still behave sanely.  I haven't tested it, though.
[03:12] <dholbach> but we need to fix the linux-2.4-meta packages
[03:12] <jbailey> But the suspend-to-disk stuff only should kick in if someone sets it intentionally, or does a clean install.
[03:12] <dholbach> apt-cache -i unmet | grep kernel   should be empty :-)
[03:14] <dholbach> i don't want to meddle in any kernel packages :-)
[03:14] <dholbach> even not meta ones
[03:21] <fabbione> dholbach: we simply cannot commit to maintain 2.4 too
[03:21] <fabbione> that's MOTU stuff
[03:21] <fabbione> but we did never remove 2.4 from universe for that reason
[03:22] <fabbione> if MOTU's are absolutely sure that it is ok to kill 2.4, than just go ahead
[03:22] <dholbach> i'm not suggesting chucking stuff out
[03:22] <dholbach> but the linux-meta packages should be sorted out
[03:22] <dholbach> -2.4 that is
[03:22] <fabbione> there is no linux-meta for 2.4
[03:22] <fabbione> and there is no need to have one
[03:23] <dholbach> that's all the list is saying
[03:23] <dholbach> what are all those   version 100   then?
[03:24] <fabbione> the version 100 afaik are meta packages coming from DEbian
[03:24] <fabbione> that have the same meaning as our linux-meta
[03:24] <fabbione> but
[03:24] <fabbione> they are not packages we did
[03:24] <fabbione> so i am sure you can clean these ones
[03:25] <dholbach> what about the *-2.6-* ones?
[03:25] <fabbione> it's the same
[03:25] <fabbione> debian uses kernel-*
[03:25] <fabbione> we use linux-*
[03:25] <dholbach> ok, so if you have no objections, i'll re-add them to the list and talk to elmo at some stage
[03:25] <dholbach> cool
[03:25] <dholbach> thanks :-)
[03:26] <fabbione> it's your decision
[03:26] <dholbach> removal of uninstallable meta packages shouldnt hurt, right? :-)
[03:27] <fabbione> it shouldn't
[03:27] <fabbione> given that they don't break other packages
[03:27] <dholbach> i'd prefer if someone of the kernel-team would verify ;-)
[03:28] <lamont> meta package doesn't actually deliver anything, other than dependencies to pull in other packages..
[03:28] <lamont> that it's uniinstallable may be an issue, but removing it shouldn't hurt
[03:33] <fabbione> ahah i found the best picture for badger :-)
[03:33] <fabbione> http://www.getoffmynuts.com/gallery/images/aznraccoonstick.jpg
[03:33] <lamont> fabbione: that's a racoon
[03:33] <lamont> != badger
[03:33] <fabbione> hmm they looked pretty much the same
[03:33] <lamont> but they taste completely different
[03:34] <zul> fabbione: racoon are more evil then badgers
[03:34] <zul> they go through your garbage
[03:34] <lamont> and about half as big as a badger, too
[03:34] <fabbione> ok got that
[03:34] <lamont> so they fit in the garbage can better... :-)
[03:35] <lamont> should we get mark to do 'randy racoon' next?
[03:35] <fabbione> hahha better not suggesting it :-)
[03:35] <fabbione> some pics on that site are amazing
[03:35] <fabbione> http://www.getoffmynuts.com/gallery/images/appleadcrackborrow20.jpg
[03:35] <fabbione> there PPC users!
[03:39] <lamont> fabbione: that'd be better than 'raunchy racoon'
[03:39] <fabbione> ehheh
[03:42] <dholbach> bbl
[05:22] <Mithrandir> hm, should I whine about stuff to go into d-i kernel packages here or just to Kamion?
[05:23] <zul> Kamion
[05:50] <fabbione> here
[05:50] <fabbione> we do create the udebs
[05:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: what do you need exactly?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> fabbione: 7800; the i2o modules.
[05:52] <Mithrandir> i2o_block.ko  i2o_config.ko  i2o_core.ko  i2o_proc.ko  i2o_scsi.ko
[05:53] <fabbione> on what arches?
[05:53] <fabbione> something like an i2o-udebs
[05:53] <fabbione> but what should pull it in?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> amd64
[05:53] <Mithrandir> it could just go in the scsi-modules udeb?
[05:54] <fabbione> is it used only by scsi hw?
[05:55] <Mithrandir> TTBOMK, yes
[05:56] <fabbione> TTBOMK"FHHIDJAWI ????
[05:56] <Mithrandir> to the best of my knowledge
[05:56] <Mithrandir> it's an abstraction layer which providers can write their hardware to conform to.
[05:56] <fabbione> ok :-)
[05:56] <Mithrandir> makes it easier to write drivers
[05:56] <fabbione> yes i know the description, but i didn't know if there were actually drivers using it
[05:57] <fabbione> the 7800 is the scsi drivers that uses it, right?
[05:57] <Mithrandir> 7800 is the bug #
[05:57] <Mithrandir> :P
[05:57] <fabbione> ahhh
[05:57] <Mithrandir> some Adaptec stuff uses it
[05:58] <Mithrandir> 0000:02:07.0 RAID bus controller: Adaptec (formerly DPT) SmartRAID V Controller (rev 01)
[05:58] <Mithrandir> so we might want the dpt_i2o in there as well
[05:58] <Mithrandir> hmm, the dpt_i2o is i386 only, though
[05:58] <fabbione> hmmm ok
[05:59] <fabbione> to do it clean we need a new kernel-wedge
[05:59] <fabbione> + some investigation on the depends of the modules
[05:59] <fabbione> what module is the one used for the controller?
[06:01] <Mithrandir> typically, the i2o_block gives you access to the block devices (that is, RAIDs or JBODs the controller sees)
[06:01] <Mithrandir> the i2o_scsi is the scsi interface, I think
[06:01] <fabbione> hmmmm
[06:01] <Mithrandir> config is for running configuration tools
[06:02] <fabbione> is it critical to get it in for hoary?
[06:02] <fabbione> it will need me a bit of investigation on how to merge the overall crack
[06:02] <fabbione> or talk with Kamion on what's the best way
[06:02] <Mithrandir> it would be _very_ nice to have for hoary, yes.
[06:02] <fabbione> ok
[06:02] <Mithrandir> it's a PITA to install without it
[06:02] <fabbione> yup. i understand
[06:03] <Mithrandir> it's in the kernel, it's just missing from d-i
[06:03] <fabbione> yes..
[06:03] <fabbione> we need to get a proper udeb out
[06:04] <fabbione> and since this is scsi stuff
[06:04] <fabbione> the scsi-modules needs to Depend on it
[06:04] <fabbione> but if in one month from now, a new keyboard will use that stuff
[06:04] <fabbione> we will not need to split the hell
[06:04] <fabbione> it will be already there
[06:04] <fabbione> i just want to be sure which modules (per arch) needs to go where
[06:05] <fabbione> and this is Kamion "the d-i allmighty" decision ;)
[06:06] <Mithrandir> I doubt you'll ever have an i2o keyboard. :P
[06:06] <fabbione> you get my point :P
[06:06] <fabbione> but yes it is doable
[06:07] <Mithrandir> cool, I'll see what kamion says to the bug
[06:07] <Mithrandir> but now I should be packing
[06:08] <fabbione> are you flying tomorrow?
[06:10] <Mithrandir> train tonight, then drop off a bit of baggage in Oslo then bus to Copenhagen tomorrow mid-day
[06:12] <fabbione> cool!
[06:12] <fabbione> Mithrandir: you have my phone numbers.. anything you need, you just call me
[06:13] <Mithrandir> sure
[06:13] <Mithrandir> :)
[06:13] <fabbione> (other than my money!)
[06:13] <fabbione> (but you can have my wife as souvenir from dk)
[06:13] <Mithrandir> has she turned evil already?
[06:13] <fabbione> she did even before
[06:13] <fabbione> but i can say "WIFE"
[06:13] <fabbione> ehehhe
[06:13] <Mithrandir> I'm looking forward to meet her
[06:13] <Mithrandir> I'm sure she rocks.
[06:13] <Mithrandir> just like you
[06:14] <fabbione> eheheh
[06:14] <fabbione> she is not a nerd tho
[06:14] <fabbione> and she doesn't like computer talking
[06:14] <fabbione> talk to her about flowers and traveling :)
[06:16] <Mithrandir> I
[06:16] <Mithrandir> I'll just make Karianne talk to her and she'll be a geek in no time.
[06:16] <Mithrandir> :)
[06:17] <fabbione> AHAHHA
[06:17] <fabbione> good plan!
[06:17] <fabbione> i think i will take Ulla with me at the next conf in EU
[06:17] <Mithrandir> bring her to Debconf?
[06:18] <fabbione> i am not sure i will be there
[06:18] <Mithrandir> ok :(
[06:18] <Mithrandir> I'm actually considering bringing my mother(!).  She's a social antrophologist and interested in free software and geeks and such
[06:18] <fabbione> ahaha
[06:18] <fabbione> that would rock so hard!
[07:02] <zul> heh..mama's boy :)
[07:40] <lamont> well, it didn't work.  those wimps at earthlink are no help.
[07:41] <lamont> my issue is that there are free pair in the T^*&)^)*_() path all the way to my house... I just want one.  Qwest doesn't want to free it up....
[07:54] <zul> frig...its like im doing cobol all over again
[07:54] <zul> pure hell
[08:05] <fabbione> lamont: just steal it :-)
[08:06] <lamont> fabbione: unfortunately, that would require learning about DSL hookup methods, hacking their switch, and hacking the CO computer... while fun, it would not go unnoticed, and those last 2 are federal offenses...
[08:06] <zul> its better than ioaw
[08:07] <zul> iowa
[08:07] <fabbione> or alaska
[08:07] <lamont> alaska would be nice - as long as they have DSL. :-)
[08:07] <zul> or *shock* tenesse
[08:07] <lamont> and leavenworth doesn't have DSL
[08:07] <lamont> at least not in the inmate areas.
[08:11] <fabbione> lamont: did you ever consider upgrading the wireless link and get somehow uncapped?
[08:13] <lamont> fabbione: for a mere $600 + $70/mo, I can have 500kbps over satellite.
[08:13] <lamont> fat, but _VERY_ long pipe.
[08:13] <zul> what is the upload like?
[08:13] <lamont> probably bidirectional these days - at least 128kbps
[08:13] <lamont> now, for $349/mo + tarriffs (== ~$1000/mo), I can have a T1.
[08:14] <lamont> and for about that much a month, I can get another house in DSL land... :-)
[08:14] <fabbione> that's too expensive
[08:14] <fabbione> i was talking about the wireless link you have now
[08:15] <lamont> ah, that just involves getting the co-op to change rate plans yet again on my behalf...
[08:15] <fabbione> + latency only kills irc...
[08:15] <lamont> (the most recent change benefits pretty much _me_
[08:15] <lamont> and no one else
[08:16] <fabbione> but you are still bounded to traffic or speed limit
[08:17] <fabbione> i can't believe i cannot make flumotion to work with my webcam
[08:17] <fabbione> and jdub keeps ignoring that....
[08:17] <lamont> fabbione: and will be so long as I'm using the co-op
[08:18] <lamont> fabbione: I could have ~400kbps 24x7 if I was willing to pay for it...
[08:18] <lamont> but the surcharges _HURT_
[08:18] <fabbione> yeah i can imagine
[08:18] <fabbione> or get all your boxes colocated
[08:18] <lamont> they're structured to make it cheaper to get the T1 if you're a steady-state heavy user
[08:18] <fabbione> and use only the laptop as ws
[08:18] <zul> ill take that ppp bug - 7763
[08:19] <fabbione> lamont: have you consider splitting the T1 with the neibourgh?
[08:19] <lamont> pb is that i need to get the bits to test with, so I'd need to co-lo my office, and we're still talking ~$1000/mo
[08:19] <lamont> ENONTECHY
[08:19] <fabbione> yeah colo the entire office no...
[08:19] <fabbione> zul: ok...
[08:20] <lamont> actually, I co-lo'ed a 1U box down at my buddy's
[08:20] <zul> see im cordinating :)
[08:20] <lamont> so I can go hit his driveway and do a fast-fetch of everything I'm missing
[08:20] <fabbione> eheh
[08:20] <lamont> zul: that is like, so _ON_ topic. :-)
[08:20] <fabbione> zul: i don't use ppp at all...
[08:20] <fabbione> so you can take also pppoe and mppe
[08:20] <lamont> I use it when forced
[08:20] <zul> neither do i but if debian includes it well do the same
[08:21] <fabbione> lamont: last thing i tried was ppp over ssh
[08:21] <fabbione> than i stopped
[08:21] <lamont> gag
[08:21] <zul> last time i used ppp was 3 years ago
[08:21] <lamont> fabbione: btw, ipv6 iptables connection tracking... any word on that?
[08:21] <fabbione> it was easier to put a machine with 2 eth at work than to go via the corporate firewall
[08:22] <fabbione> lamont: right.... now we are kernel maintainers...
[08:22] <fabbione> see
[08:22] <fabbione> i totally forgot about it
[08:22] <fabbione> we are going to put it in for bendy
[08:22] <fabbione> since i maintain the kernel.. we can do the effort to merge it
[08:23] <lamont> once we have it, I'll deploy ipv6 here...
[08:23] <lamont> need it for the firewall.
[08:23] <fabbione> lamont: you will be surprise to know that you don't need that much firewalling on ipv6
[08:24] <lamont> fabbione: because no one is using it?
[08:24] <fabbione> no, because if you carefully configure the services, you don't need one
[08:24] <fabbione> not all services listen on IPv6
[08:24] <fabbione> and the few that do, is because you want them on ipv6
[08:24] <fabbione> like bind, apache2
[08:25] <fabbione> ssh
[08:25] <lamont> yeah, but I'm kinda strict on the firewall rules...
[08:25] <fabbione> sure..
[08:25] <fabbione> there were some limitations when i tested a year ago
[08:25] <lamont> it's not even there in our 2.6.10 :)  severely limits things... :)
[08:26] <fabbione> you know.. i got so frigging busy that i really forgot about it
[08:26] <lamont> it's OK.  I'll just pester you each day at UDU about it. :-)
[08:26] <fabbione> no need to
[08:26] <lamont> LOL
[08:26] <fabbione> i will merge the day after hoary is out
[08:26] <zul> heh...you guys are going to have too much fun at udu
[08:27] <fabbione> and upload for bendy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> breezy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> no, windy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> wasn't it?
[08:27] <fabbione> yeah breezy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> breezy badger
[08:28] <Mithrandir> crazy name, imho
[08:28] <Mithrandir> :)
[08:28] <fabbione> wife i want bendy!
[08:28] <fabbione> s/wife//
[08:28] <fabbione> no.. i do NOT want my wife to bend(y)
[08:28] <fabbione> not yet at least :P
[08:28] <Mithrandir> TMI!
[08:29] <lamont> fabbione: -28 has the abi stuff, not 27, right>?
[08:29] <fabbione> lamont: correct
[08:30] <fabbione> time to get offline
[08:30] <fabbione> wife is back
[08:30] <zul> c ya
[08:30] <fabbione> cya
[08:31] <lamont> later
[08:54] <zul> im going to a movie tonight with my wife so im not sure if im going to be online or not
[09:12] <zul> next week i think
[09:13] <zul> or not..
[09:57] <zul> later


[18:33] <JoshStrobl> Hello everyone =)
[18:45] <JoshStrobl> Hey jono, there is an event upcoming, correct?
[18:49] <jono> JoshStrobl, yes
[18:49] <jono> in 10 mins
[18:49] <JoshStrobl> jono: Thought so :) Mind if we get a topic change?
[18:50] <jono> JoshStrobl, it will when we get there
[18:50] <JoshStrobl> ah
[18:54] <JoshStrobl> By the way jono, never was able to get around to saying that last week's Ubuntu App Developer week keynote was very informative. Thanks for helping kick off the sessions.
[18:55] <jono> thanks JoshStrobl!
[18:58] <spider623> ok the new chat system is nice
[18:59] <JoshStrobl> spider623: eh? Are you in IRC via the web-based Kiwi IRC or an IRC client?
[19:00] <micah2> I see you, Jono
[19:01] <mhall119> jono: we see you
[19:01] <JoshStrobl> I can see you jono
[19:01] <cgregan_uds> audio good...videio good
[19:01] <dholbach> yes, go go go
[19:01] <mhall119> uh oh, buffering...
[19:01] <karni> jono: loud and clear
[19:01] <spider623> i do see a green shirt
[19:01] <t1mp> jono: I see you
[19:01] <fdelayen> seeing you, jono :)
[19:01] <nhaines> Now I see you.  :)  (It didn't autostart).
[19:01] <mrbrownstone3g> i see u from nottingham
[19:01] <kirkland__> good here
[19:01] <snwh> all good, mr. lazy
[19:01] <kereltis> Video and sound are good
[19:02] <Schnook> that beard
[19:02] <JoshStrobl> dat beard
[19:03] <mhall119> such facial hair, much wow
[19:03] <jono> get your questions in
[19:03] <spider623> QUESTION: when is mir expected to hit officially as the display manager?
[19:03] <Cracknel> QUESTION: What's up with the beard?
[19:03] <jono> type in 'QUESTION' followed by your question
[19:03] <tech_freak> Please Mark, please explore Ubuntu Touch
[19:04] <rickspencer3> arg ... video buffering!
[19:04] <ogra_> mr lazy !
[19:04] <JoshStrobl> poor people and their buffering :P
[19:04] <karni> all good
[19:04] <ogra_> rickspencer3, i have the same with all sessions today
[19:04] <JoshStrobl> 14.04 is so solid already. seriously going to be a great release.
[19:04] <jono> ogra_, :-)
[19:05] <dobey> rickspencer3: drop the quality down to 360p
[19:05] <sergiusens> ogra_, you should upgrade from that 14.4k modem
[19:05] <JoshStrobl> sergiusens: haha
[19:05] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, i'm watching the stream on an android phone now
[19:05] <spider623> there is quality lower than 720p?
[19:05] <JoshStrobl> orga_ Oh man, I know how that feels.
[19:05] <PokeyMan> QUESTION: We've recently seen a nice new lockscreen added into 14.04. Will they long needed quality finishes find a way into Unity 8 from the start?
[19:06] <sergiusens> spider623, you can choose 240
[19:06] <balloons> set it to 240p if you need to :-)
[19:06] <geddy> QUESTION: is there still any interest in exploring the "rolling release" idea?
[19:06] <ogra_> JoshStrobl, well, at least it works ... doesnt in my desktop browser
[19:06] <MSkilledMyPuppy> Damnit! Stream doesn't work!
[19:06] <Springbank> What about the icon-theme? Suru will be the new icon theme?
[19:06] <dobey> yeah, i think youtube isn't dealing well with everyone trying to stream a live hangout at 720p
[19:07] <MSkilledMyPuppy> ..running circle
[19:07] <karni> Springbank: prefix your questions with "QUESTION"
[19:07] <MSkilledMyPuppy> Wait for me, Mark!
[19:07] <nhaines> dobey: those beautiful 720p slides.  :)
[19:07] <Micael> Question: When this planned out Ubuntu Phone in Europe?
[19:07] <Springbank> kami Thanx
[19:07] <dobey> nhaines: yeah, all that purple and text makes such a huge difference being in 720p
[19:07] <Schnook> QUESTION: what does Canonical to hit the mass market?
[19:07] <dobey> but that's why i go for 4K
[19:07] <JoshStrobl> QUESTION: Will there be any commitments to an improved Ubuntu One client across Ubuntu, Ubuntu Touch, Android etc. in a future cycle, possible 14.10 or 15.04?
[19:08] <jono> if you have questions for Mark, type them in with 'QUESTION' followed by your question and I will add it to the list :-)
[19:08] <nhaines> dobey: wow much fonts.  such kerning.  :)
[19:08] <karni> nhaines: hi! :)
[19:08] <Springbank> Question: What about the icon-theme? Suru will be the new icon-theme?
[19:08] <nhaines> karni: hiya!  :)
[19:08] <JoshStrobl> Springbank: Yes. Landing in UT first, potentially desktop later from what I hear.
[19:08] <MSkilledMyPuppy> QUESTION: How do I get that stream working?
[19:08] <spider623> QUESTION: what about the 22" sony tablets? are they going to display as a normal pc?
[19:09] <mhall119> MSkilledMyPuppy: YouTube has been giving people problems all day, you can try a different browser or incognito window, but otherwise there's not much we can do
[19:09] <mhall119> MSkilledMyPuppy: if you can't get it working now, you can try coming back and watching the recording at a later time
[19:09] <nhaines> spider623: remember, no tech support questions. :)
[19:09] <MSkilledMyPuppy> sorry!
[19:09] <rickspencer3> "co-opt" is the perfect word, I've been looking for a good way to describe that kind of convergence
[19:09] <mhall119> 22" *tablet*?
[19:10] <JoshStrobl> nhaines: I don't think that was a support question. I think he was curious how that large of a form factor "tablet" will react to Ubuntu (whether it'll show the tablet view or desktop).
[19:10] <slangasek> mhall119: Moses-approved
[19:10] <spider623> it's no tech support, just a question since 22" is a little big for the tablet ui of touch
[19:10] <mhall119> slangasek: lol
[19:10] <ogra_> ha
[19:10] <jono> slangasek, lol
[19:10] <Springbank> Question: UT will be released on Nexus 7 (2013)?
[19:10] <MSkilledMyPuppy> gonnga watch video instead :-(
[19:11] <ogra_> Springbank, it is already there
[19:11] <spider623> Springbank: already is
[19:11] <nhaines> spider623: I'm sorry, I tab-completed your name by mistake.   I think your question was great.  :)
[19:11] <dobey> mhall119: panasonic has a 20" 4K tablet
[19:11] <mhall119> spider623: I think the plan is "the UI will adapt"
[19:11] <harish_manutd> when the ubuntu for mobile will be released ..Ubuntu OS for mobile ?
[19:11] <Springbank> thanks
[19:11] <dobey> mhall119: ubuntu for tables
[19:11] <ogra_> harish_manutd, many people run it daily already on their nexus devices
[19:11] <Kiran> Hi
[19:11] <JoshStrobl> harish_manutd: It already exists. 1.0 was release w/ 13.10 release.
[19:11] <JoshStrobl> Remember to use QUESTION: if you have a question directed at Mark.
[19:12] <harish_manutd> ogra_ .never knew about that ...
[19:12] <mhall119> harish_manutd: I've been running it exclusively since August of last year
[19:12] <ogra_> harish_manutd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[19:12] <mhall119> on a Nexus 4
[19:12] <nhaines> harish_manutd: it's right there on http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/
[19:12] <Xenon19> Futur game compatible Ubuntu via Mantle (New API) ?
[19:12] <sergiusens> same since june on a galaxy nexus
[19:12] <spider623> is that Jono's hand?
[19:12] <JoshStrobl> What I'm waiting for is the day that UT is available officially for Nexus 5.
[19:12] <jono> that hairy hand looks familiar
[19:12] <jono> :-)
[19:13] <nhaines> JoshStrobl: it works great right now on the N5 as long as you hate sound.
[19:13] <Micael> Question: When this planned out Ubuntu Phone in Europe?
[19:13] <JoshStrobl> nhaines: Well, I like sound, so I don't think it'll be right for me yet :P
[19:13] <jono> if you have questions for Mark, type them in with 'QUESTION' followed by your question and I will add it to the list :-)
[19:13] <harish_manutd> ogra_ thanks for the link..looks like it will be compatible only with nexus devices...
[19:13] <jezak> when exactly Ubuntu 14.04 LTS will be available?
[19:13] <nhaines> JoshStrobl: in that case, MultiROM Manager is a great way to dual-boot.  :)
[19:13] <mhall119> harish_manutd: that's all we support right now
[19:13] <nhaines> jezak: 17 April 2014.
[19:13] <JoshStrobl> nhaines: Yea I've been thinking about doing that.
[19:13] <mhall119> harish_manutd: there are community ports to non-Nexus devices
[19:14] <jezak> thanks :)
[19:14] <ogra_> yes, mostly nexus ... there are community ports for other devices but they are foten far behind in features
[19:14] <Cracknel> jezak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
[19:14] <spider623> Micael: most probably at the end of the year
[19:14] <harish_manutd> cool...
[19:14] <Micael> :'(
[19:14] <spider623> any one tried the new kernel?
[19:14] <ogra_> watch that smile !
[19:15] <Xenon19> Futur game compatible Ubuntu via Mantle (New API) ?
[19:15] <karni> :)
[19:15] <JoshStrobl> spider623: you mean 3.13?
[19:15] <spider623> on ut
[19:15] <JoshStrobl> orga_ It's the smile of genuine enthusiasm.
[19:15] <nhaines> On the new landed code he's talking about, I got about 12 programs running on my Nexus 5 before it started getting creaky.  It was fun.  :)
[19:15] <ivo_xavier> will ubuntu touch support Python?
[19:15] <Steam4Lnux> here jono
[19:15] <spider623> for now i will be happy if they add a download option on the browser
[19:16] <nhaines> ivo_xavier: never.
[19:16] <JoshStrobl> ivo_xavier: Go, QML / C++,  JS
[19:16] <JoshStrobl> Remember, if you have a question for Mark, append the question to "QUESTION:".
[19:16] <rcain> any plans to get Vodafone onboard?
[19:16] <dobey> ivo_xavier: it's ubuntu. you could install python if you want
[19:17] <nhaines> dobey: actually, python's already there.
[19:17] <slangasek> ivo_xavier: python is not part of the supported platform for app development
[19:17] <slangasek> (but yes, there's some python under the hood)
[19:17] <mhall119> QUESTION: What's your favorite app on the phone? (not necessarily most used, but the one you like the most)
[19:17] <nhaines> rcain: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/carrier-advisory-group
[19:17] <dobey> nhaines: yes. of course
[19:17] <rcain> QUESTION: any plans to get Vodafone onboard?
[19:17] <ogra_> there is a terminal app ... and you could write python scripts you run in it :)
[19:18] <nhaines> rcain: they're already onboard.
[19:18] <dobey> rcain: vodafone is already part of the CAG: www.ubuntu.com/phone/carrier-advisory-group
[19:18] <rcain> thanks nhaines :)
[19:18] <rcain> LOVE Ubuntu! can't wait for a phone! :)
[19:18] <Micael> me to
[19:18] <JoshStrobl> The HTML5 implementation is really solid for Ubuntu Touch at this point. If you want to develop an UT app in HTML5 / JS, it's totally doable at this point.
[19:19] <Springbank> quit
[19:19] <Steam4Lnux> QUESTION: As you move toward introducing unity 8 on the desktop, how have you been working on the present releases to make sure it is implemented the right way, and how you want it? & how has the phone design process affected the desktop portion of unity?
[19:19] <candelibas> But we're waiting W3C API's support for HTML5 apps :/
[19:19] <rcain> great news about Vodafone. I'll request Ubuntu on my next upgrade, VERY soon i hope.
[19:20] <spider623> JoshStrobl: it is but also the browser on UT is missing many features, when you can't even download a picture ... well...
[19:20] <mhall119> spider623: that functionality is landing now, using the new download manager and content hub
[19:20] <JoshStrobl> candelibas: Not necessarily. You can use Cordova APIs, which tie into the hardware access you need, and since Oxide is based on Blink, the majority of things that'd work in Chrome will work in Oxide.
[19:20] <harish_manutd> GO GO GO \m/
[19:21] <JoshStrobl> Obviously Chrome-specific APIs (like Chrome extension stuff) won't work.
[19:21] <spider623> mhall119: great news, i may actually put it back on the phone!
[19:21] <JoshStrobl> If you are interested in UT development, join in at #ubuntu-app-devel after the keynote!
[19:21] <bennybolivar> QUESTION are the new Icons are coming to 14.04?
[19:21] <fossterer> QUESTION: UT Development? I missed something
[19:22] <nhaines> bennybolivar: only on the phone; not on the desktop.
[19:22] <nhaines> fossterer: that's not a question.
[19:22] <bennybolivar> thx
[19:22] <fossterer> What is this UT Development?
[19:22] <dobey> nhaines: exploooooooosions?
[19:22] <Snack_Pocket88> yes
[19:22] <nhaines> dobey: giant exploooooooosions!
[19:22] <ogra_> fossterer, ubuntu touch app development
[19:22] <t1mp> fossterer: development of apps especially for Ubuntu Touch
[19:22] <fossterer> OK.. Thanks
[19:22] <Otak> Why Ubuntu still stupid? I mean no automatic troubleshooting
[19:22] <dertolle> Evening all
[19:22] <Snack_Pocket88> good
[19:22] <ogra_> (not unreal tournament)
[19:23] <mhall119> s/Ubuntu Touch/Ubunu/
[19:23] <vthompson> QUESTION: Which language (straight QML or Go), besides HTML5, do we expect/hope to be easiest to port to other devices such as Android/iOS?
[19:23] <dobey> Otak: rudeness won't get you the attention you want
[19:23] <nhaines> vthompson: QML and javascript.
[19:23] <Snack_Pocket88> when is ubuntu??
[19:23] <Disward> no sound?
[19:23] <ogra_> ubuntu is now :)
[19:23] <nhaines> Otak: if troubleshooting could be done automatically, the computer would just do it.
[19:23] <nhaines> ogra_: +1
[19:23] <Ursinha> ogra_: :)
[19:23] <mhall119> ogra_: best answer
[19:23] <vthompson> nhaines, darn it. I wanted an excuse to start playing with Go
[19:23] <Snack_Pocket88> dont laugh at me was only asking
[19:23] <mhall119> vthompson: do it then
[19:24] <mhall119> Snack_Pocket88: we're laughing at ogra_, not you
[19:24] <Otak> Ubuntu does not have automatic troubleshooting like Windows
[19:24] <dobey> nhaines: if troubleshooting could be done automatically, we'd have skynet
[19:24] <t1mp> vthompson: QML I would recommend for user interfaces, go for lower level stuff that you might do with c++/perl/bash/... now
[19:24] <nhaines> dobey: well work on Juju *is* still ongoing.  ;)
[19:24] <Cracknel> dobey: LOL
[19:24] <liber> hola
[19:24] <spider623> btw any one tried Multirom Manager to install ubuntu?
[19:24] <t1mp> vthompson: and you can use GO+QML of course :) (qml for the GUI only)
[19:24] <Otak> People hate ubuntu because Ubuntu just mae like a tool
[19:24] <Snack_Pocket88> why is samsung galaxy y i install ubuntu?? i have livecd
[19:24] <t1mp> (backend in go)
[19:25] <nhaines> spider623: yeah, I used it at SCALE and ever since.  It's fantastic.
[19:25] <dobey> Otak: if you hate ubuntu, why are you here?
[19:25] <Cracknel> spider623: unfortunately not. The support for my Nexus 7 (2012) has been dropped.
[19:25] <Otak> I said "people"
[19:25] <candelibas> JoshStrobl: That sounds good.So we won't need W3C APIs
[19:25] <jono> Otak, give love a chance :-)
[19:25] <rcain> juju -  cooll name :)
[19:25] <mhall119> Snack_Pocket88: you can't install on a phone with a LiveCD, you need to download an installable image specifically for your device
[19:25] <JoshStrobl> candelibas: A lot of the hardware-level JS APIs are W3C drafts, just fyi ;)
[19:26] <harish_manutd> juju ..COOL names they come up with :)
[19:26] <mhall119> Snack_Pocket88: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices has a list of supported and semi-supported devices
[19:26] <spider623> installing 234 proposed from there now, i hope my wifi will not be slow like a snail again today
[19:26] <Otak> People hate it because every time trubleshooting the only way is do command line a.k. a MNUAL
[19:26] <Otak> MANUAL
[19:26] <who_me> I've seen that someone was working on adding Digital Ocean support to juju. Is that going to be mainlined at some point?
[19:27] <mhall119> Otak: if you know of a good way to built automated troubleshooting, please document it somewhere and propose it in the next UDS
[19:27] <spider623> you got to love juju
[19:27] <Cracknel> QUESTION: Any plans to reintroduce Ubuntu certifications? Especially in the area of cloud computing this would really useful.
[19:27] <ogra_> Otak, so help making it better and people do not need to troubleshoot at all :)
[19:27] <mhall119> Cracknel: certification of people or of hardware?
[19:27] <Snack_Pocket88> i dont lke this ubuntu i like the old one unity
[19:27] <dobey> Otak: troubleshooting cannot be autoamted. if you have problems with some errors that happen not being good enough, please file bugs
[19:27] <Cracknel> mhall119: people
[19:27] <nhaines> Cracknel: people.
[19:27] <mhall119> ah, nvm then, was going to point you to the hardware certifications page :)
[19:27] <nhaines> Also I meant mhall119: people.
[19:27] <digitaldefector> My mom's been using 12.04LTS based disrto. I explained to her Ubuntu's licensing news.with Linux Mint. She agrees with your decision, so that users don't get lesser quality experience using the Ubuntu name.
[19:28] <Otak> Auto trobleshooting in Windows helped many people
[19:28] <ogra_> digitaldefector, thanks !
[19:28] <jono> Otak, this is not a good time to discuss this
[19:28] <Otak> Ubuntu is not smart as Windows
[19:28] <ogra_> Otak, so feel free to help making something like this work on Ubuntu too
[19:28] <jono> I recommend you raise this another time in a better venue
[19:28] <who_me> QUESTION: I've seen that someone was working on adding Digital Ocean support to juju. Is that going to be mainlined at some point?
[19:28] <mhall119> Otak: if you know how it should work, propose it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Create
[19:29] <rickspencer3> questions!
[19:29] <nhaines> Yay, it's question time!
[19:30] <Otak> As long as Ubuntu devs cant create auto troubleshooting I cant confirm people arounf me to use ubuntu
[19:30] <dertolle> Otak my wifi isnt working on my vista laptop. Any thoughts?
[19:30] <mhall119> QUESTION: because I've been curious for a while, what's the story behind your dragon avatar?
[19:30] <Micael> Question: When it is planned out Ubuntu Phone in Europe?
[19:30] <nhaines> mhall119: ooh, good question.
[19:30] <dobey> Otak: this isn't the place to complain about it
[19:30] <vthompson> mhall119, +1
[19:30] <ogra_> mhall119, google: here be dragons
[19:30] <Snack_Pocket88> meer? what is?
[19:30] <nhaines> Micael: you keep asking but the answer is always going to be "later this year from BQ"
[19:30] <iBelieve> QUESTION: Mark, would you share you top 5 favorite apps for Ubuntu Touch (other than packaged websites like Google+)?
[19:30] <Otak> Ubuntu must be smart to gain popularity
[19:31] <rcain> QUESTION: any chance of a further attempt at the Edge?
[19:31] <Armand990> awesome development with the Ubuntu phone!, can't wait to have mine
[19:31] <SGB1> Hi mark!
[19:31] <mhall119> ogra_: I'm familiar with the maritime history of the phrase, just not sure why Mark adopted it
[19:31] <mhall119> Snack_Pocket88: "Mir", it's the software that displays things on the screen
[19:31] <JoshStrobl> QUESTION: In what release cycle do you expect systemd to replace Upstart?
[19:31] <slangasek> mhall119: because historically South Africa was a dragon stronghold
[19:32] <bobsam> Question: Has anyone officially spoke with Will Wheaton about his comments on Ubuntu going in a direction that displeases him, and why?
[19:32] <mhall119> JoshStrobl: there was a session about that yesterday
[19:32] <JoshStrobl> mhall119: Oh...
[19:32] <JoshStrobl> well damn, missed it :D
[19:32] <mhall119> JoshStrobl: it's recorded :)
[19:32] <d0od> bobsam: lol
[19:32] <ogra_> mhall119, http://www.markshuttleworth.com/biography ;)
[19:32] <dobey> bobsam: it's Wil with one l :)
[19:32] <Otak> QUESTION: When Ubuntu devs would make UBuntu smart as Windows?
[19:32] <bobsam> dobey: ty
[19:32] <bac> cornrows!
[19:32] <ogra_> mhall119, HBD = "here be dragons"
[19:32] <dobey> bac: hahahaha
[19:33] <noobermin> Otak: When will ubuntu devs make Ubuntu as dumb* as windows? fixed
[19:33] <dertolle> Otak keep trolling its funny. You from india?
[19:33] <nhaines> Otak: could you please stop being disruptive to this developer summit?  There are other good places to discuss your concerns if you wish to be constructive.
[19:33] <digitaldefector> QUESTION: Other DE like LXDE will be transitioning to QT, like Unity is going to do. I've been a GTK centric user. Will we get the same KISS for QT like we do with GTK?
[19:33] <nhaines> dertolle: please be respectful.
[19:33] <JoshStrobl> Otak: Please stop being disruptive.
[19:33] <dertolle> Dont feed the troll
[19:33] <nhaines> sabdfl: *waves*
[19:33] <spider623> arrest someone for his beard?
[19:33] <ogra_> MANDY ?!?
[19:34] <bobsam> question: with Apple TV 4 rumors and their work to sign service providers to provide live tv shows 4 days after they air, and roku releasing devices faster than ever, where is Ubuntu TV and has any efforts been put to work with content providers to offer these services ?
[19:34] <who_me> spider623, if he's got a beard he must be a terrorist, d'oh! :/
[19:34] <Otak> Google only make Linux is just to run a Chrome browser. It seems Linux is just a tool
[19:34]  * rickspencer3 braces
[19:34] <dobey> bobsam: use QUESTION in all caps if you have a question
[19:34] <ogra_> rolling FTW !!!
[19:35] <dertolle> Keep it comming
[19:35] <bobsam> QUESTION: with Apple TV 4 rumors and their work to sign service providers to provide live tv shows 4 days after they air, and roku releasing devices faster than ever, where is Ubuntu TV and has any efforts been put to work with content providers to offer these services ?
[19:35] <nhaines> Otak: all operating systems are just tools.  That's practically their reason for being.
[19:35] <sergiusens> Otak, computers are just a tool
[19:35] <bobsam> QUESTION: Has anyone officially spoke with Will Wheaton about his comments on Ubuntu going in a direction that displeases him, and why?
[19:35] <dobey> Otak: Linux is just a kernel, yes
[19:35] <sergiusens> nhaines, beat me :-P
[19:35] <dobey> android runs on top of linux too
[19:35] <Armand990> will ubuntu phone support "portable PC" mode with bluetooth keyb+mouse and a screen with mhl/hdmi?
[19:35] <nhaines> sergiusens: being fast at typing lets me be lazier at writing.  ;)
[19:35] <ogra_> bobsam, Ubuntu TV will most likely be based on Ubuntu for Phones ... we need to get that one rock solid first before moving on to other HW
[19:35] <nhaines> Armand990: yes, but not for another year.
[19:36] <rsalveti> ogra_: we just need external monitor support :P
[19:36] <ogra_> rsalveti, DOIT !
[19:36] <ogra_> :)
[19:36] <Ursinha> lol
[19:36] <nhaines> rsalveti: details, details.  :)
[19:36] <rsalveti> so I can plug my nexus 4 and watch movies with it
[19:36] <ogra_> ++
[19:36] <Armand990> nhaines, thanks for quick answer, hope we get it soon, it's a really impressive feature if available :)
[19:36] <mhall119> rsalveti: make it happen
[19:36] <sergiusens> rsalveti, just use your 30" tablet
[19:36] <rsalveti> ogra_: it's actually not that complicated, but got better things to do :P
[19:36] <kuteva> QUESTION: What happened to the notification icons (Skype, Dropbox, etc.) in the Unity panel?
[19:36] <nhaines> Armand990: they already have it running in concept with Ubuntu for Android.  So I think when it's just Ubuntu all the way down it's going to be super impressive.  :)
[19:37] <ogra_> rsalveti, you will work on it after you have been moved to the TV team ;)
[19:37] <rcain> QUESTION: any plans for 'docability' with wide-screen/Digtal TVS's,
[19:37] <Armand990> rhaines, agreed! :))
[19:37] <dobey> kuteva: nothing? skype appears in the top panel for me
[19:37] <nhaines> rcain: no plans.  That's a hardware vendor problem.
[19:37] <kuteva> Not in 13.10
[19:37] <rsalveti> ogra_: ;-)
[19:38] <dobey> kuteva: does here. but this isn't the forum to ask for tech support
[19:38] <Otak> Ubuntu phone will be fail product becaue it's not smart as android
[19:38] <JoshStrobl> kuteva: Yes it does. In 13.10 the notification icon works for Skype, as well as 14.04.
[19:38] <spider623> don't compare with the Asus TF series, more than 30% have hardware issues :/
[19:38] <dobey> Otak: please leave if you're just going to troll
[19:38] <mhall119> Otak: alright already, you've said your piece
[19:38] <rcain> @dobey: thanks. need to lobby them. i WANT it :)
[19:38] <noobermin> QUESTION: Not sure this will make it as it's late, but what is your strategy with regards to the lack of an established app market for ubuntu?
[19:38] <Mosor> .
[19:39] <JoshStrobl> Otak: "Study: Internet Trolls Are Also Terrible In Real Life" - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2453609,00.asp
[19:39] <Mosor> .
[19:39] <dertolle> Irc rule #1 : dont feed the troll
[19:39] <kereltis> I'd love to see ASUS make Ubuntu products
[19:39] <noobermin> JoshStrobl: pretty much
[19:39] <nhaines> noobermin: the strategy is to make the SDK awesome, make QML and HTML5 compelling, support Cordova/PhoneGap to make a port beautiful but painless, and make the platform so compelling that everyone wants to be on it.
[19:39] <mhall119> noobermin: in case he can't answer, we're going to make a phone OS that's desirable and a developer platform that's easy, betweent he two the apps should come to us
[19:39] <dertolle> All newbies?
[19:40] <spider623> QUESTION: any chance of a united market along with google in order to have common purchases with Google play? If you guys merge your services it will be great
[19:40] <rcain> lots of good quotablel stuff there Mark. anyone making a transcript?
[19:40] <nhaines> spider623: Google doesn't care about that.
[19:40] <Otak> Ubuntu designer are soulless
[19:40] <mhall119> rcain: the video is being recorded
[19:40] <noobermin> nhaines: mhall119: god speed!
[19:40] <ogra_> rcain, it is recorded
[19:40] <nhaines> Nor does Apple.  And probably neither does Canonical.  :)
[19:41] <JoshStrobl> Otak: Obvious troll is obvious.
[19:41] <ogra_> Otak, you are tiring ...
[19:41] <mhall119> just ignore Otak
[19:41] <spider623> nhaines: actually getting money from more than one platform is in her plans
[19:41] <rcain> @mhall119
[19:41] <rcain> mhall119
[19:41] <rcain> @mhall119: thanks
[19:41] <dertolle> Keep feeding....
[19:41] <dobey> ogra_: can't we get someone to kick/ban/kline him?
[19:41] <Otak> look at the wallpaper. No art at all
[19:41] <ogra_> dertolle, trying hard not to :)
[19:41] <ogra_> dobey, no idea, i guess we have OPs here
[19:42] <dertolle> Its kind of funny actually
[19:42] <rickspencer3> pick up the new icons in a point release?
[19:42] <ogra_> uuuh
[19:42] <dobey> dertolle: yeah. so was "Dumb & Dumber" :)
[19:42] <nhaines> rickspencer3: can't: UI Freeze.
[19:42] <dertolle> ^^
[19:42] <nhaines> Although I really, really like sabdfl angling for an optional package with the Suru icons!  :D
[19:42] <rickspencer3> 14.1, 14.2 with new icons?
[19:43] <Otak> The souless Ubuntu designers should be fired for goodness
[19:43] <rickspencer3> why not? it wold be sweet
[19:43] <nhaines> rickspencer3: it would break the Documenation team.
[19:43] <t1mp> Otak: who still believes in souls these days?
[19:43]  * rickspencer3 kick Otak
[19:43] <slangasek> t1mp: dude, no need to escalate
[19:43] <nhaines> rww: welcome!
[19:44] <t1mp> ok
[19:44] <JoshStrobl> "Oh hell yea" - I liked that version of "yes".
[19:44] <Otak> Ubuntu wallpaper just made people in my country laughing so loud when ubuntu designer claim it has art on it
[19:44] <bobsam> QUESTION: canonicals business model to profit share with developers on application sales, has that shown promising results and interests from big players?
[19:44] <kuteva> QUESTION: Why was the gear (System settings, Shut down, ...) removed from the HUD search in 13.10?
[19:45] <Hermansson> Has FairPhone been mentioned?
[19:45] <Cracknel> Hermansson: nope
[19:45] <t1mp> dual sim ++++ :)
[19:46] <ukbeast> wow, the legend is on live :)
[19:46] <spider623> we need an oem that will release a phone with no os and you will be able to choose what os you like just like a normal pc
[19:46] <ogra_> ukbeast, nope, we rented an imposter
[19:46] <rickspencer3> lol sudoku
[19:46] <ukbeast> lol
[19:46] <ogra_> ukbeast, but he isnt bad, is he ?
[19:46] <popey> \o/
[19:47] <balloons> lol, look out dinko!
[19:47]  * xnox feels under pressure now to update g+ app.
[19:47] <ukbeast> he's real, look at that beard
[19:47] <nhaines> I do like the Sudoku stuff, but nothing's ever beat Brain Age in terms of best digital Sudoku.  :)
[19:47] <slangasek> Otak: do you understand that your comments here are not constructive, and no one is going to change what they're doing on Ubuntu when a person we don't know shows up on IRC and tells us we're doing it all wrong?
[19:47] <mhall119> xnox: aquarius tells me there's a "better web version" of Google+ available that we could be using
[19:47] <dobey> slangasek: he was +q'd :)
[19:48] <xnox> mhall119: i'm open to any improvements.
[19:48] <mhall119> aquarius: ^^
[19:48] <ogra_> dobey, so he can still listen ;)
[19:48] <nhaines> QUESTION: What is the function of the Mobile Carrier Advisory Group right now?  What do the members do?
[19:48] <karni> xnox: g+ app? you wrote one?
[19:48] <xnox> karni: i packaged it as a webapp.
[19:48] <ogra_> karni, he maintains the webapp
[19:48] <jono> trolled
[19:48] <slangasek> dobey: oh, missed that, the relationship between the +q and the speaker was non-obvious :)  thanks
[19:48] <karni> ack
[19:48] <sergiusens> xnox, can you check the notes on the store for g+?
[19:48] <xnox> sergiusens: yeah.
[19:49] <sergiusens> xnox, can I also ask you to add plus to the tags as well :-)
[19:49] <rickspencer3> I.
[19:49] <rickspencer3> can.
[19:49] <rickspencer3> not.
[19:49] <rickspencer3> wait.
[19:49] <ogra_> and the plus sign  ?
[19:49] <ogra_> :)
[19:49]  * sergiusens tries to stay on topic
[19:49] <rcain> QUESTION: but many/most of your (UK) developers them selves will be on Vodafone (or other mainline carrier)
[19:49] <JoshStrobl> QUESTION: Ok, not a real question. Just want to say "thank you Mark" for financially backing the amazing endeavor that is Ubuntu.
[19:50] <dobey> rcain: that's not a question
[19:50] <who_me> JoshStrobl, hear hear!
[19:50] <ogra_> rcain, we only have a few people in the UK ... canonical spreads around the globe
[19:50] <dobey> rcain: but you can run it on your phone, regardless of carrier
[19:50] <rcain> @dobey: rhetorical question.
[19:50] <dobey> rcain: if you have a nexus4, you can go flash it right now, and run ubuntu
[19:51] <nhaines> rcain: it wasn't a rhetorical question either!
[19:51] <Patr10t> Question;i have Xiaomi Phone.Will it work with ubuntu that works now on nexus phone?or would work with other phone?lets say Meizu,Lenovo,which now run on android
[19:51] <nhaines> rcain: I'm running Ubuntu on a Nexus 5 (and used to be on a Galaxy Nexus) on T-Mobile.  It's all just working.  :)
[19:51] <rcain> @dobey: yes, but don't have a Nexus 4. also really need 'some' level of technical/warranty support from Vodafone to make it 'safe'
[19:51] <mhall119> Patr10t: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices has a list of devices and their levels of support
[19:51] <dobey> Patr10t: questions about specific models are not really appropriate for this session
[19:51] <Blin> QUESTION: In my opinion, the problem is that the OSX user can not fully customize their environment. Ubuntu also has little opportunity to change the desktop. Many options can be configured in the console, not everyone likes to do it or it's hurd. Do we wait for change?
[19:52] <mhall119> Patr10t: anything with a CyanogenMod port can get an Ubuntu port if someone does the work
[19:52] <Nivex> CM port above a certain version I bet. I imagine I can't get Ubuntu on my Nexus One.
[19:52] <dobey> Blin: you can change ubuntu to look however you want. you aren't required to use Unity
[19:53] <who_me> Blin, there is a *ubuntu for pretty much all of the major DEs... OS X has only one DE and that's that
[19:54] <rcain> @nhaines. don't be pedantic. it was an 'implied' rhetorical question. (ie. could be argued or refuted - to b pedantic)
[19:54] <Armand990> QUESTION: (kinda again), what will be the focus on making ubuntu phone as "mobile-on-a-go-pocket-pc" with the connectivity possibilities to everything possible (bt+hdmi etc...)?
[19:54] <rsalveti> sergiusens: everybody is suffering from the lack of auto 'adb reboot bootloader'
[19:54] <marlinc> QUESTION: How can a company become a official Canonical support partner?
[19:55] <nhaines> rcain: it's not.
[19:55] <mhall119> marlinc: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/
[19:55] <rcain> @nhaines: lol! now go away :)
[19:55] <ogra_> rsalveti, was that to help sergiusens to stay on topic ?
[19:55] <JoshStrobl> Ok you two, calm down. Geez...
[19:55] <Nivex> bah! Linode > DO (IMHO)
[19:55] <marlinc> Well its not very clear that's why I wanted to ask here (with Jono and Mark himself)
[19:56] <nhaines> rcain: these panels aren't for rhetorical questions anyway.  But not even asking a question is going to get your question skipped by the moderator.
[19:56] <snwh> "on my plane" you don't hear that often
[19:56] <riffaClouds> Can you please shed some light on, if the nexus 5 will eventually be oficially supported?
[19:57] <nhaines> rcain: so feel free to apply that feedback or not in hopes to increase your chances of having your question asked.  That's all I was saying and I'm not ashamed of it.
[19:57] <thelionroars> unless you're at a carpenter convention
[19:57] <ogra_> riffaClouds, no plans for that, but there is a great community port for it
[19:57] <karni> jono: QUESTION from riffaClouds: Can you please shed some light on, if the nexus 5 will eventually be oficially supported?
[19:57] <sergiusens> rsalveti, should I add that? it's for bootstrapping though; so you will be taken there and be wiped with no query
[19:57] <karni> jono: well, just answered by ogra_ , I suppose :)
[19:57] <rsalveti> sergiusens: that was the previous behavior anyway, right?
[19:58] <nhaines> riffaClouds: Ubuntu Engineering team spreadsheet says end of June.
[19:58] <aquarius> xnox, try g+ web on ios or android. There's a better version; we're getting the "basic html" version I think
[19:58] <sergiusens> rsalveti, yeah, it doesn't make it right though
[19:58] <rsalveti> sergiusens: or just ask the user to confirm
[19:58] <xnox> aquarius: ack.
[19:58]  * ogra_ waits for sergiusens and rsalveti to start code reviews in here
[19:58] <dobey> xnox, aquarius: that's probably due to the User-Agent
[19:58] <ogra_> :)
[19:58] <sergiusens> lol
[19:58] <rsalveti> :P
[19:58] <rcain> @nhaines: it was in fact a 'serious' observation in apparent flaw in Mark's argument that somehow Vodafone (& ilk) didn't matter so much - my point being I/WE use them & we are useres/early uptakers/devellopers/Ubuntu lovers - hence catch22 -- u savy?
[19:59] <Nickedynick> QUESTION: Some news broke recently that the CryEngine game engine is going to be demoed on Linux at GDC this year, probably initiated by the fact that Valve are planning to launch Linux-based Steam Machines this year too. What (if anything) is going on within Ubuntu which could take advantage of the developments being made as a result of Valve's de
[19:59] <Nickedynick> cision to back Linux for its gaming platform?
[19:59] <dobey> i think it's too late to ask more questions :)
[19:59] <nhaines> rcain: the 'question' prompt is only for direct questions, not for observerations--that's what this channel here is for.
[19:59] <karni> rcain: FWIW, I didn't udnerstand your question. I think you guys can stop now.
[20:00] <ogra_> WHEATON !!!
[20:00] <dobey> karni: it wasn't a question. it was a complaint :)
[20:00] <riffaClouds> @nhaines, tnx after the many months of checking for updates, i stopped looking. I´m gladd it will be supported, because i have an nexus 5.   :D  Check out MultiROM Manager.
[20:00] <rcain> thanks for the answer on Edge Mark. ears to the ground :)
[20:00] <mhall119> nhaines: dobey: rcain: either way it's going to be asked as stated, so let's drop it
[20:00] <rootdz> very good talk
[20:00] <nhaines> mhall119: I think it's much more likely to be skipped due to lack of question.
[20:01] <rcain> very good talk. congrats  guys.
[20:01] <karni> indeed, very good talk
[20:01] <mhall119> nhaines: also because time's run out
[20:01] <spider623> anyone knows how to restart ubuntu touch?
[20:02] <nhaines> spider623: there are several ways.
[20:02] <mhall119> none of them good
[20:02] <karni> spider623: adb shell reboot
[20:02] <nhaines> spider623: long-hold the power button turns them off.
[20:02] <rickspencer3> I heard everything from sabdfl
[20:02] <nhaines> spider623: adb shell reboot if your phone is connected to your computer.
[20:02] <thelionroars> it's the android team...
[20:02] <pmcgowan> we can see you all
[20:02] <mrjazzcat> jono:  mostly good
[20:02] <spider623> i will go with the adb
[20:02] <thelionroars> we can hear you
[20:02] <nhaines> Terminal, then 'sudo reboot -p' if not.  :)
[20:02] <rcain> clear from heere - occassional stutter
[20:02] <calc> occasional glitch but pretty good
[20:02] <karni> sabdfl: yes we can :)
[20:02] <slangasek> jono: bandwidth problem between you and sabdfl, but the actual feed from you was good
[20:03] <sergiusens> jono, sabdfl both of you froze for me in different moments for a second
[20:03] <karni> sabdfl: jono: thank you!
[20:03] <who_me> thanks to you folks for sharing with us and answering our questions
[20:03] <bennybolivar> thank you too
[20:03] <JoshStrobl> thanks jono and sabdfl
[20:03] <janneke1> sabdfl:jono: thanks!
[20:03] <riffaClouds> this was the first time i got to join live. this was awesome!
[20:03] <MikeWasouski> thank you too
[20:03] <ogra_> thanks for investing the time !
[20:03] <karni> riffaClouds: :)
[20:03] <nik90> sabdfl: thnx
[20:03] <mhall119> don't forget there's another day of UDS tomorrow!
[20:03] <spider623> it was a good session
[20:03] <rcain> thanks to you all :) parise Ubuntu!
[20:03] <karni> \o/
[20:03] <nhaines> Thanks jono and sabdfl!  :)
[20:03] <candelibas> Thank you too
[20:03] <mhall119> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/2014-03-13/
[20:03] <thelionroars> so excited about ubuntu mobile!
[20:03] <rootdz> Thank you :)
[20:03] <kereltis> Thanks guys, great keynote!
[20:04] <jono> thanks!
[20:04] <sabdfl> you guys rock, thank you for your questions and contributions!
[20:05] <riffaClouds> @sabdfl, thank you for leading awesome innovation!
[20:10] <FK_nero> hi is this still going  ??
[20:10] <Cracknel> FK_nero: you've just missed it
[20:11] <FK_nero> dammit    any thing  new
[20:11] <Cracknel> you can watch the recording
[20:11] <Cracknel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWTVe5Mdv0Y
[20:11] <nhaines> Cracknel: we learned more about the beard.  :)
[20:11] <FK_nero> will do thx cracknell
[20:12] <nhaines> Also I'm just mistelling constantly today. Maybe I should take a nap to compensate for getting up so early.  :)
[20:12] <sean_patrick> finished up now?
[20:13] <nhaines> sean_patrick: about 10 minutes ago.\
[20:14] <Cracknel> sean_patrick: everything is recorded on Youtube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWTVe5Mdv0Y
[20:14] <Cracknel> we should set this as the topic for the channel or something :)
[20:15] <sean_patrick> ok. Thanks
[20:22] <eoeo> gdocs rulez, i use it @school
[20:26] <eoeo> Mate DE please
[20:32] <nhaines> sabdfl: What did your lower-third say?  I couldn't read the title.  :)  "Chairman & B@lllmasher" it seems to say.  :)
[20:33] <heldeman> Hi i am more than new. Hope i can figure out what to do. I wonder with the Ubuntu phone docked will somebody be able to put a SSD and or graphic card in it. Is this to fare fetched?
[20:33] <nhaines> heldeman: that sounds pretty unlikely based on what phones today can do.
[20:33] <nhaines> SSD wouldn't be so hard, but graphics via USB is not good.
[20:36] <heldeman> Could in future phones have a port in to the dock maybe to have a graphic card in the dock. It would be cool if it ever could be designed.
[20:37] <nhaines> heldeman: anything's possible, but graphics rendering requires moving such massive amounts of data around with little latency, I can't imagine anyone would.
[20:38] <heldeman> Pity it would then have been able to do 3D cad when docked.
[20:41] <heldeman> Could some one tel me how this work. What is this writing in the right and box. Is it something to use


[05:22] <nuvolari> o/
[05:48] <jabberwocky_> moring all
[06:07] <Kilos> hi jabberwocky_ Spekko and others
[06:07] <Spekko> more kilos
[06:11] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[06:11] <jabberwocky_> môre Kilos
[06:11] <theblazehen> hi Kilos
[06:11]  * jabberwocky_ slaps Spekko with a large rain cloud
[06:47] <Kilos> someone explain to me why peeps are leaving telkom
[06:47] <Kilos> Telkom CEO Sipho Maseko said that it is time for the company to wake up and start to deal with the real reasons why its customers are leaving the operator.
[06:47] <Kilos> he dont explain in the link
[06:47] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[06:49] <Kilos> where am i missing the boat. i prefer telkom mobile
[07:15] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning
[07:27] <Vince-0> o/
[07:27] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:47] <Kilos> hi bushtech bduk
[07:54] <bduk> More Kilos  en almal
[08:04] <bushtech> Hi kilos, others
[08:14] <Vince-0> surpdurp
[10:15] <Kilos> hi Golynx superfly
[10:22] <Golynx> hi Kilos
[10:59] <jabberwocky_> Maaz: seen highvoltage
[10:59] <Maaz> jabberwocky_: highvoltage was last seen 3 months, 21 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes and 44 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2014-01-24 09:47:33 PST], and has been offline on freenode since 2014-01-26 10:49:54 PST
[11:11] <theblazehen> Hi Kilos
[11:23] <charl_> good afternoon gentlemen
[11:23] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[11:23]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[11:23] <Kilos> hi charl_
[11:24] <charl_> hi Kilos
[11:24] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[11:24] <Maaz> Kilos: Yessir
[11:27] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_ and Kilos!
[11:27] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[11:27] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[11:28] <charl_> Maaz: thanks
[11:28] <Maaz> charl_: Sure
[11:51] <theblazehen> Hi charl_
[11:56] <charl_> hi theblazehen
[12:08] <Golynx> hi theblazehen, charl_, jabberwocky_, etc...
[12:08] <theblazehen> hi Golynx
[12:08] <Golynx> some peeps are missing the boss? :D
[12:09] <Golynx> aka highvoltage
[12:18] <jabberwocky_> hi Golynx, yeah I was looking for him
[12:18]  * jabberwocky_ used facebook bleh
[12:21] <Golynx> jabberwocky_ oh np :)
[12:50] <Private_User> afternoon all
[12:50] <Private_User> afternoon jabberwocky_, theblazehen, charl_, Golynx
[12:51] <Private_User> oops sorry I missed one, afternoon Kilos
[12:51] <theblazehen> Hi Private_User
[12:52] <Golynx> hi Private_User
[12:54] <Kilos> hehe
[13:42] <charl_> hi Golynx
[13:42] <charl_> hi Private_User
[14:10] <kbmonkey> lo Kilos
[14:11] <Kilos> ohi kbmonkey
[14:11] <Kilos> i needed help with a command to format a stick to mbr please
[14:12] <Kilos> and fat
[14:12] <kbmonkey> lol, sure Kilos
[14:12] <Kilos> but mind you any format after gives choices
[14:12] <kbmonkey> you in a server cli only mode I guessing
[14:12] <Kilos> just the mbr thing
[14:13] <Kilos> no ian is on kde and it doesnt have disk utility
[14:13] <kbmonkey> what is your goal Kilos ?
[14:13] <Kilos> to make a bootable install stick
[14:13] <kbmonkey> format does not touch the mbr, no. mbr is simply a region on the disk where your boot loader gets installed
[14:14] <Kilos> yes man but many sticks dont have it so dont boot
[14:14] <kbmonkey> ah a bootable debian or ubuntu?
[14:14] <Kilos> he wants to try 7 with it
[14:14] <kbmonkey> excuse me?
[14:15] <Kilos> lol he want to try 7 with unetbootin
[14:15] <kbmonkey> what is 7?
[14:15] <Kilos> he has the iso but no dvds to burn to and needs to install it for work
[14:15] <Kilos> windoooooows 7 man
[14:15] <Kilos> ai ek sukkel darem
[14:15] <kbmonkey> oh I do not think unetbootin does windows
[14:16] <Kilos> aha
[14:16] <kbmonkey> you will have to contat windows support for that :P
[14:16] <Kilos> i thought it moight do any iso
[14:16] <Kilos> no man
[14:16] <Kilos> all brains are here
[14:16] <kbmonkey> no, unetbootin looks for the vmlinuz kernel files to boot silly monkey
[14:17] <Kilos> oh me oh my
[14:17] <kbmonkey> hey you could try it though
[14:17] <kbmonkey> but you know windows is known to *not* be able to boot off usb
[14:17] <kbmonkey> linux was the first and only
[14:18] <Kilos> just found this
[14:18] <Kilos> http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/2432-usb-windows-7-installation-key-drive-create.html
[14:18] <kbmonkey> there may be other third party programs that allow you to boot windows iso from usb
[14:18] <Kilos> they will most likely want to sell you other software
[14:19] <kbmonkey> cool you are ahead of me Kilos are you going to try that?
[14:19] <Kilos> but anyway we still arent at the command to format mbr into a stick
[14:19] <Kilos> mkfs something or other
[14:19] <Kilos> no not me man'
[14:20] <Kilos> dont get like inetpro and say man mkfs
[14:20] <kbmonkey> okay I can help you here...
[14:21] <kbmonkey> plug in the usb and find the device path with 'fdisk -l'
[14:21] <kbmonkey> /dev/sdc for example
[14:21] <Kilos> ya
[14:22] <kbmonkey> sudo fdisk /dev/sdX
[14:23] <kbmonkey> are you ready to destroy all the data on your usb Kilos ?
[14:23] <Kilos> does that open further options
[14:23] <kbmonkey> so make *sure* it is your usb you type in there ha ha
[14:23] <kbmonkey> no we are going to tell it what to do
[14:23] <Kilos> man im not doing it
[14:24] <Kilos> i use disk utility
[14:24] <kbmonkey> but you dont have disk utility
[14:24] <Kilos> i do in unity
[14:24] <Kilos> might have a name change now
[14:25] <kbmonkey> fine
[14:25] <Kilos> but disk in dash finds it
[14:25] <kbmonkey> I get paid in bananas anyway ;D
[14:25] <Kilos> lol
[14:25] <Kilos> does that fdisk give the mbr option
[14:26]  * Kilos sends a large buncha nanas to the monkey
[14:26] <kbmonkey> he he thanks kilos
[14:26] <kbmonkey> after you run fdisk it says 'm for help'
[14:26] <Kilos> ty
[14:26] <kbmonkey> then you see all the commands you can use
[14:26] <kbmonkey> you can set bootable flag (a)
[14:27] <Kilos> ok ty my monkey
[14:27] <kbmonkey> but the mbr will be empty until you unetbootin to it
[14:27] <kbmonkey> that fills the mbr
[14:27] <kbmonkey> I hope that makes sense?
[14:28] <kbmonkey> if the usb is not fat already you would need to reformat it
[14:28] <Kilos> makes it active
[14:28] <kbmonkey> sudo mkfs.fat -F 32 /dev/sdX
[14:28] <kbmonkey> that makes FAT32
[14:28] <Kilos> ya i told him fat but it didnt boot
[14:29] <kbmonkey> sudo mkfs.fat -F 32 /dev/sdXY
[14:29] <kbmonkey> ^ that, include the partition number
[14:29] <kbmonkey> ja try set boot flag
[14:30] <Kilos> will tell him ty
[14:32] <Kilos> so my monkey whats news your side
[14:32] <Kilos> 11 days to next meet
[14:34] <kbmonkey> sigh, not much Kilos
[14:34] <kbmonkey> tired today
[14:34] <kbmonkey> think to take a nap now
[14:34] <Kilos> ok
[16:51] <Meisterbrau> http://qoinpro.com/d8514189e15be36b7a0866b56992af7d   free crypto coins including Bitcoin paid DAILY - FREE - sign up there
[16:58] <Kilos> hi Meisterbrau
[16:59] <Meisterbrau> hola
[16:59] <Meisterbrau> te gusta bitcoin?
[16:59] <Meisterbrau> hey
[17:00] <Meisterbrau> you like bitcoin and cryptos? tell everybody in South Africa
[17:00] <Meisterbrau> kilos did you know that nelson mandela was my hero?
[17:00] <Kilos> nope
[17:00] <Meisterbrau> i once did a speech and i was a delegate for the ANC in 1991
[17:00] <Meisterbrau> in college
[17:00] <Kilos> i gotta go eat wbb
[17:01] <Meisterbrau> sign up for bitcoin
[17:01] <Meisterbrau> free
[17:37] <Kilos> my data is too limited to run a pc full time
[18:43] <charl_> good evening
[18:43] <charl_> friday ! yay
[18:43] <charl_> hey Kilos
[18:44] <Kilos> hi charl_
[18:44] <charl_> :)
[19:02] <charl_> hi theblazehen
[19:02] <theblazehen> hi charl_
[21:09] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight


[00:31] <ahoneybun> boom
[00:31] <ahoneybun> ll
 @ahoneybun, ?
[00:32] <sintre> been here all along ya know
[00:32] <sintre> :P
[00:32] <ahoneybun> xD
 @KMyers sorry about that lol
[00:33] <sintre> i use the web chat client , instead os quessell
[00:33] <sintre> the fonts annoy me lol , so i have to type in every chat room by hand
[00:33] <sintre> eventually i'll figure out a script or something to auto join this way
 I use Konversation
 I use ZNC as a bouncer
[00:34] <sintre> how did the walk for autism meet up go ?
 I think it went well
 we hit almost 1,100 in donations
 1195 my bad
[00:35] <sintre> for a bunch of linux people thats pretty good lol
[00:36] <sintre> simply meaning we can be a little more reclusive than others
[00:36] <sintre> so hard to get sponsors
 keith did a lot of 3D printing to get funds
 it was a very much team effort
[00:37] <sintre> i saw one of thos new 3d printers at a trae show a couple years
[00:37] <sintre> i bet they're getting smaller and smaller
 yea
 they print some crazy things now
[00:38] <sintre> can some colorize ontop of the making the plastic gizmos even
[00:38] <sintre> seens we can make our own gi0joes in our likeness lol
[00:40] <sintre> i think we need to plan for a mid summer central florida meetup somewhere
[00:40] <sintre> every other even is in cold long away places
[00:40] <sintre> event
[00:41] <sintre> we could probally get a couple vacation rentals on the cheap outside of high season and save everybody money
 we do need to start planning for the 17.04 release party
[00:48] <sintre> dayton beach or such seems the fairest for all
[00:48] <sintre> A
[00:48] <sintre> north or south some miles
[00:49] <sintre> as most sem concentrated in southern miama area
[00:49] <sintre> i
 we had the 16.10  in Orlando
[00:50] <sintre> if outside of high season that huge strech of coast , we can get a good deal
[00:50] <sintre> maybe even bring it down to less than 50 dollars per head on a  vacation if we're not hell bent on a specific place or city
[00:51] <sintre> yea i think you told me
[00:52] <sintre> just an idea to make it affordable for some people , the getting some vacation rentals instead of hotel rooms
 right
 Underground coffeehaus having a Fake News Game Show on Mar 30
 Is that on a Saturday?
 No sadly
 It's a Thursday


[00:41] <bkm> hello, is there a keyboard way to get from one workspace to another?
[00:45] <Unit193> C-A-Left
[00:58] <Unit193> bkm: There's a few more too, but that should generally do it.
[01:14] <bkm> awesome! where would i find that on the 'web?
[01:14] <Unit193> Dunno, I just grep'd my lubuntu-rc.xml
[01:15] <bkm> /usr/lxpanel/
[01:15] <bkm> /usr/lxpanel/<something> ??
[01:15] <Unit193> Nope, ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml
[02:34] <P-Chan> sometimes my DE freezes and after that goes normal
[02:34] <P-Chan> cause headache for me
[10:47] <pAt_> hi, how can I switch the right click on the desktop back to its normal function?
[11:24] <kanliot> pAt_, you there?
[11:25] <pAt_> yes kanliot
[11:25] <kanliot> hold on
[11:26] <kanliot> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ/Guides#Right-clicking_on_desktop_pulls_up_a_menu_that_is_missing_the_.22Desktop_Preferences.22_option_and_now_I_can.27t_change_my_wallpaper
[11:38] <pAt_> thx kanliot, exactly what I have been looking for :)
[14:46] <nesr01> hello, when I want create folder in pcmanfm's save dialog, it just blink a new folder is not created. its just me?
[18:32] <smile> bye :p