[16:33] <jdstrand> hi!
[16:33] <tyhicks> hello
[16:33] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[16:33] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov  4 16:34:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:33] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:33] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:33] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:33] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:34] <jdstrand> Thanks to the following individuals:
[16:34] <jdstrand> Christian Biamont (christianbiamont) provided a debdiff for precise for xml-security-c (LP: #1192874)
[16:34] <jdstrand> Felix Geyer (debfx) provided debdiffs for precise-raring for libapache2-mod-fcgid (LP: #1238242)
[16:34] <jdstrand> Felix Geyer (debfx) provided debdiffs for precise-raring for ejabberd (LP: #1239307)
[16:34] <jdstrand> christianbiamont, debfx: Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
[16:34] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:34] <chrisccoulson> hi!
[16:34] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[16:35] <jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
[16:35] <jdstrand> I've got quite a few things to catch up on from being at the sprint last week
[16:35] <jdstrand> also I need to process/communicate outcomes from sprint next week
[16:36] <jdstrand> in general, there shouldn't be any surprises for our team
[16:36] <jdstrand> nothing major was added to our plans for 14.04 and 14.10
[16:37] <jdstrand> I will be doing a click-apaprmor upload to sponsor a fix for cjwatson. I'm getting some CI testing going around click-apparmor which is why I haven't updated it yet
[16:37] <jdstrand> I hope to have that today or tomorrow at the latest
[16:38] <jdstrand> I know tyhicks wants me to sponsor an apparmor upload
[16:38] <jdstrand> I think that's it for me
[16:38] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:38] <mdeslaur> hi! I'm on community this week
[16:38] <mdeslaur> I'm currently pushing out libav updates
[16:38] <mdeslaur> FYI, the libav and ffmpeg codebases have diverged to the point of it being unreasonable to track both using the same set of CVEs
[16:39] <mdeslaur> as such, I've updated the CVEs in the tracker
[16:39] <jdstrand> oh, interesting
[16:39] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: updated as in, updated the boilerplate?
[16:39] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: as in added README.libav, killing the boilerplate, and marking existing cves as ignored or not-affected for libav
[16:40] <jdstrand> cool
[16:40] <mdeslaur> we shouldn't track ffmpeg CVEs as affecting libav
[16:40] <jdstrand> I noticed libav is now in universe in trusty
[16:40] <sarnold> does kurt agree?
[16:41] <mdeslaur> tomorrow I'm off, and further down this week, I plan on finishing my merges and picking up some more updates
[16:41] <mdeslaur> sarnold: no idea
[16:41] <mdeslaur> sarnold: but the CVE descriptions never had "libav" in them
[16:42] <mdeslaur> and I can't track vulnerabilities/commits across them
[16:42] <mdeslaur> and libav is commiting a whole slew of independant security fixes now without asking for CVEs
[16:43] <mdeslaur> anyway, that's it from me
[16:43] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[16:44] <mdeslaur> hrm, sbeattie seems to be MIA
[16:45] <tyhicks> I'll go
[16:45] <tyhicks> I'll wrap up a pending apparmor upload today and hand it off to jdstrand (thanks!)
[16:45] <tyhicks> Then I need to look into an ecryptfs/apparmor kernel bug that I hit last week
[16:45] <tyhicks> I also have some merges that I need to do
[16:46] <tyhicks> oh, and I need to look at enabling yama on the mobile kernels
[16:46] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:46] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:47] <tyhicks> sarnold: lets go to you
[16:48] <sarnold> hehe
[16:48] <sarnold> it appears I'm in my happy place again this week \o/
[16:49] <sarnold> I've been getting the hang of both canonistack and smo ser's virtual maas deployment scripts with an eye towards being able to do some maas update testing
[16:49] <sarnold> I've prepared new versions of the maas updates for release hopefully this week -- it depends if the -proposed updates have moved into the -updates queue yet or not.
[16:50] <mdeslaur> sarnold: \o/
[16:50] <sarnold> (bigjools had finished the last verification-needed test last week, so I hope the automated framework moved them through by now)
[16:50] <sarnold> mdeslaur: yeah, it'll be nice to finally cross these two off the list :)
[16:51] <jdstrand> which two?
[16:52] <sarnold> unfortunately smo ser's older script isn't his preferred testing method, and I had trouble getting the newer script to work, but I think his older script will work well enough for a starting point for documenting how the whole thing works..
[16:52] <sarnold> jdstrand: CVE-2013-1057 and CVE-2013-1058
[16:52] <jdstrand> ah, two CVEs, yes (I thought you were talking about source packages)
[16:52] <sarnold> ah :)
[16:53] <sarnold> once this is done I may do another MIR or pick up an update, depending upon mdeslaur's preference :)
[16:53]  * mdeslaur consults magic 8 ball
[16:53] <sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn :)
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> chromium is up to date now (had mozilla updates last week as well)
[16:54] <sarnold> \o/
[16:54] <jdstrand> \o/
[16:54] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: woot!
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> this week i shall be helping get people up and running with oxide
[16:56] <mdeslaur> \o/
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> i'm currently trying to improve the workflow for maintaining the chromium patches in oxide. there were various issues at the end of last week
[16:56] <jdstrand> interesting
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> other than that, i'll be back on to the usual again :)
[16:56] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: so, oxide made a big splash last week-- you should be getting the help now
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, excellent, thanks
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, you did a presentation didn't you?
[16:57] <jdstrand> I did
[16:58] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand,  how did that go?
[16:59] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: well-- most everyone realized it was the plan of record
[16:59] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: phonedations had a number of questions cause we hadn't brought them into the loop before that (though they were in the meeting in april and saw the emails on it stating it was the plan)
[17:00] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: they've done quite a bit of work on qtwebkit to make sure it works well on armhf
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. although i can't imagine it working that well, with no jit ;)
[17:01] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: and I imagine they will also start helping out soon (eg rsalveti). but like I said elsewhere-- getting you the armhf hardware and you can do some benchmarks marks to give to them
[17:01] <jdstrand> yeah, I don't have the details. you and rsalveti should definitely talk at some point though
[17:01] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's cool
[17:01] <jdstrand> I want to update/form a new bp for oxide for this cycle
[17:02] <jdstrand> we can talk more about that this week
[17:02] <jdstrand> oh, yes, that is another thing I have to do-- work with mdeslaur and all of you on bps for vUDS
[17:03] <jdstrand> I don't know that we'll have an oxide session-- I think the work is known. we'll discuss later
[17:03] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: did you have any other questions or anything else to report?
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, no, i think that's me done
[17:04] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[17:04] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[17:04] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[17:04] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openjpa.html
[17:04] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/flightgear.html
[17:04] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sanlock.html
[17:04] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rawstudio.html
[17:04] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lighttpd.html
[17:04] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:04] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:05] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, tyhicks, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
[17:05] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:05] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov  4 17:06:23 2013 UTC.
[17:05] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-04-16.34.moin.txt
[17:05] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-04-16.34.html
[17:06] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[17:06] <tyhicks> thanks!
[17:07] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
[19:02] <tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
[19:02]  * stgraber waves
[19:02] <tumbleweed> (not that it looks like we need a meeting)
[19:02]  * barry waves
[19:02] <barry> no utlemming again this time afaict
[19:03] <ScottK> o/
[19:03] <tumbleweed> he does appear to be on freenode, just not in here
[19:04] <utlemming> hi, I'm here
[19:04] <barry> awesome!
[19:05] <barry> bdrung: you're chairing today, if you're around
[19:10]  * bdrung comes around
[19:10] <bdrung> #startmeeting
[19:10] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov  4 19:10:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:10] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:11] <bdrung> no previous action items. let's begin with our applications.
[19:12] <bdrung> #topic Per Package Uploader Applications
[19:13] <bdrung> #subtopic Ben Howard applying for PPU for walinuxagent  and hv-kvp-daemon-init
[19:13] <bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/utlemming/PPUApplication
[19:13] <bdrung> utlemming: welcome. can you introduce yourself?
[19:13] <utlemming> hi, I'
[19:13] <utlemming> I'm Ben Howard and I spend my days in the cloud
[19:14] <utlemming> I rather enjoy working on Ubuntu and maintain those two packages, working with sponsors
[19:14] <utlemming> and I build the Cloud Images for Ubuntu
[19:15] <stgraber> so just a few random questions to get started ;)
[19:15] <stgraber> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[19:16] <utlemming> er, I am not...but will be shortly :)
[19:16] <stgraber> good :)
[19:16] <utlemming> and done
[19:19] <stgraber> (sorry, trying to think about some clever questions, and failing at the moment ;))
[19:21] <stgraber> so those two packages are Azure specific, right? are there equivalents for other cloud platforms that you'll end up maintaining? or is Azure special in that regard?
[19:22] <utlemming> indeed, they are specific to Azure. The other package that I do a lot of work on is cloud-init. However, I lean on Scott Moser for that.
[19:22] <utlemming> there are no other packages at this time that I maintain as part of cloud work....and I would like to keep it that way. The goal is to put all that stuff into Cloud-init.
[19:24] <tumbleweed> utlemming: is walinuxagent something that we want to get into Debian too?
[19:25] <utlemming> tumbleweed: yes, and there is a version in Debian called waagent. However, I have been unssuccesful in working with the debian maintainer.
[19:26] <tumbleweed> oh, it's the same thing
[19:26] <utlemming> tumbleweed: our version, however, is much cleaner as we've made cloud-init to handle the majority of the work. So we do carry a delta.
[19:26] <tumbleweed> yeah, that's unfortunate
[19:27] <utlemming> tumbleweed: that said, I have worked with MS to get some our changes upstreamed, including carrying our init scripts and packaging to make maintance easier.
[19:28] <tumbleweed> does it make sense for ubuntu to have both walinuxagent and waagent? shouldn't we be dropping one or rebasing onto debian's package?
[19:29] <bdrung> at least the package name should be the same
[19:29] <utlemming> bdrung: if you look at the debian logs, they used our early version of the package to create waagent
[19:30] <barry> utlemming: can you go into any detail about the debian maintainer issues?
[19:31] <utlemming> barry: we introduced the intial version of the walinuxagent ~ 12.04 time frame, while walinuxagent was still having a lot of issues. I worked with MS to get those straigtened out. The Debian guys decided to package it, and introduced waagent based on our packaging. In the 12.10 and then 13.04 I reached out asking about merging the packages and removing the differences, which fell on deaf ears.
[19:33] <barry> utlemming: did they just not respond?  are the orig maintainers still interested in maintaining the package in debian?
[19:33] <tumbleweed> on a related topic, are you aware of the (fairly low traffic) debian-cloud list?
[19:33] <utlemming> barry: no response. I haven't followed up in while -- I intend on following up on that latter
[19:34] <utlemming> tumbleweed: yes, I am and I am on it
[19:34] <utlemming> tumbleweed: I even hang out on their IRC channel
[19:34] <barry> utlemming: cool
[19:34] <tumbleweed> ok. hopefully we can solve this some day
[19:34] <tumbleweed> but in the meantime, shouldn't we rename our walinuxagent source package? or remove waagent in Ubuntu?
[19:36] <utlemming> tumbleweed: that is a great question. waagent today exists as MS's originally saw it, while walinuxagent now requires cloud-init and uses cloud-init to behave like a cloud instance.
[19:36] <barry> tumbleweed: maybe schedule that for later in trusty if the issue can't be resolved in debian?
[19:36] <utlemming> tumbleweed: for cloud-images, we want them to behave like cloud-images and so we use walinuxagent + cloud-init.
[19:37] <stgraber> if our changes are a relatively clean set on top of upstream, then applying those on waagent instead (and killing walinuxagent) would make more sense
[19:37] <stgraber> if we've diverged to the point where we heavily change the upstream source tarball, then a separate source name isn't entirely unreasonable
[19:37] <utlemming> I can agree with that position. Mostly our changes are configuration changes.
[19:37] <stgraber> but we should then blacklist and remove waagent from the archive
[19:38] <bdrung> it depends what name is preferred. waagent or walinuxagent?
[19:38] <stgraber> well, whatever Debian uses is usually best, if only for dependencies
[19:38] <infinity> Am I fashionably late?
[19:38] <stgraber> infinity: no, just late ;)
[19:38] <utlemming> I would probably blacklist waagent, simply because it is a dangerous package. Part of packaging is to prevent it from hosing a system on installation.
[19:38] <infinity> ScottK asked me to pop in and repeat something I told him in private.
[19:38] <infinity> 12:19 <ScottK> Is utlemming ready for PPU rights for the Azure stuff?
[19:38] <infinity> 12:25 <infinity> I don't think I've had to fix any of his uploads for a while now, so probably.  As long as he's saying the right things about being sane and getting reviews.
[19:38] <infinity> So, there.   My work here is done. :)
[19:39] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:39] <tumbleweed> thanks infinity
[19:39] <bdrung> maybe it would be good to file a bug against waagent in the BTS to ask for an opinion. either we should adopt the Debian name or Debian should adopt Ubuntu's name.
[19:39] <utlemming> I can take that as a work item for this cycle
[19:40] <bdrung> depending on the outcome, one of the two source package should be removed (and all needed changed applied to the remaining source package)
[19:41] <stgraber> oh, I guess I should also publicly state this since I've only done so in private to the board. I've been doing a fair amount of SRU review mostly of walinuxagent and haven't seen any problem with those so far. utlemming does a good job of getting all the right bits SRUed where it matters and keeping track of the state of Ubuntu Server on Azure.
[19:43] <bdrung> #vote Should Ben Howard get upload rights for walinuxagent and hv-kvp-daemon-init and get Ubuntu membership?
[19:43] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Ben Howard get upload rights for walinuxagent and hv-kvp-daemon-init and get Ubuntu membership?
[19:43] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:43] <stgraber> +1
[19:43] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:43] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:43] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:43] <barry> +1
[19:43] <meetingology> +1 received from barry
[19:43] <bdrung> +1
[19:43] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:44] <infinity> utlemming: Congrats.
[19:44] <utlemming> :)
[19:44] <ScottK> +1
[19:44] <meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
[19:44] <bdrung> #endvote
[19:44] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Ben Howard get upload rights for walinuxagent and hv-kvp-daemon-init and get Ubuntu membership?
[19:44] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:44] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:45] <bdrung> utlemming: congrats.
[19:45] <stgraber> utlemming: so normally I'd grant you those rights immediatel,y however since I've expired from the technical board and no new board has been elected since, it'll take a little while.
[19:45] <stgraber> utlemming: I'll have to poke the Launchpad folks to figure out whether someone can cowboy the ACL in there for me ;)
[19:46] <utlemming> ack, sounds good
[19:47] <bdrung> utlemming: I consider having PPU + Ubuntu Membership to be more than Ubuntu Contributing Developer (which just grants recognition and Ubuntu membership). do you still want to become Ubuntu Contributing Developer?
[19:47] <utlemming> er, I think that PPU + Ubuntu Membership is fine
[19:48] <utlemming> I'll work towards MOTU next
[19:49] <bdrung> #topic Any other business
[19:49] <bdrung> anything else to discuss?
[19:50] <stgraber> nothing here
[19:50] <tumbleweed> nor here
[19:50] <barry> same
[19:50] <bdrung> okay.
[19:51] <bdrung> micahg will be the next chair (following our list)
[19:51] <bdrung> thanks for coming.
[19:51] <bdrung> #endmeeting
[19:51] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov  4 19:51:40 2013 UTC.
[19:51] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-04-19.10.moin.txt
[19:51] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-04-19.10.html
[19:51] <barry> thanks bdrung
[19:51] <bdrung> you're welcome.


[12:06] <Unit193> !ping
[14:15] <popey> we've lost the bot in #ubuntu-app-devel - can someone bring one back?
[14:16] <k1l> ubottu: is quiet too. maybe Pici known whats going on
[18:18] <Unit193>  ubottu ping
[18:18] <Unit193> ubottu: fooperofowoijeieoiwjefjiweofjeoijwefoeoijwef
[18:18] <Unit193> Well now it works.
[23:11] <Pici> looks like some sort of reconnect loop caused the bots to write way too much info to their logs, and ended up filling the disk.
[23:11] <Pici> I'm putting in some logrotate rules in now, so at least if one of the bots does this again, it doesn't end up causing issues for the others.


[00:17] <anastasiamac> thumper: babbageclunk: can we cap log collection in mongodb? bug 1656430
[00:17] <mup> Bug #1656430: juju logs should be a capped collection in mongodb <sts> <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656430>
[00:21] <babbageclunk> anastasiamac, thumper: I don't think mongo allows deleting from a capped collection, so the pruner couldn't work. I'm not sure whether that would cause any knock-on problems.
[00:24] <anastasiamac> love the error msg \o/ - "Something wicked happened" :D
[00:32] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: thnx!
[00:40] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: but interestingly, would we need prunner if log collection was capped anyway?..
[00:55] <thumper> anastasiamac: the problem with a capped collection is one noisy model can remove logs for another model
[00:55] <thumper> but...
[00:55] <thumper> perhaps there are ways.
[00:56] <anastasiamac> thumper: yep. marked the bug as invalid... but thought it was interesting thought-flexing exercise :D
[01:01] <redir> collection per model
[01:30] <thumper> anastasiamac: I reopened that bug but with a different subject
[01:31] <thumper> Miguel_Ubuntu: what is the problem you are hitting?
[01:31] <anastasiamac> thumper: k
[01:40] <redir> bbl after dinner and stuff
[05:49] <redir> night
[05:57] <junaidali> perrito666: output of juju status -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23814800/ after restore
[05:58] <junaidali> I'm unable to remove machines with 'down' status and 'no-vote' as controller-member-status
[10:48] <jam> wallyworld: ping. IIRC your team worked on "show-status-log". I'm trying to debug some provisioning errors, and I see the messages show up while the provisioner is trying
[10:48] <jam> but as soon as the provisioner gives up
[10:49] <jam> the machine goes to "pending", ""
[10:49] <jam> (empty message)
[10:49] <jam> and "juju show-status-history" only shows the "pending", "" entry
[10:49] <jam> none of the ones that have been giving me "failed because of X" messages.
[10:52] <jam> axw: ^^ in case you know something about it, too
[11:28] <perrito666> jam: I can help you with that, just give me a couple of mins to discover where I left my glasses when I woke up
[11:29] <perrito666> jam: you mean the status history is being re-written?
[11:30] <perrito666> aaand I just realized you asked this like an hour ago
[11:30] <jam> perrito666: I mean that I'm testing what happens when provisioning fails. And if I watch "juju show-machine X" I can see the messages about failing and will retry
[11:31] <jam> perrito666: but as soon as the provisioner decides that its done trying
[11:31] <jam> perrito666: the message ends up as ""
[11:31] <jam> which is rather unhelpful
[11:31] <jam> looking at the code in the Provisioner
[11:31] <jam> I see it wanting to call setErrorStatus which should set the machine into an Error state, instead of a Pending state
[11:31] <jam> and have a nice looking message there.
[11:31] <jam> well, at least an informative one.
[11:32] <perrito666> jam: that is rather odd, and how is show-status-log involved here?
[11:32] <jam> perrito666: it also has only 1 entry "pending", ""
[11:33] <jam> which doesn't match the 5+ messages we just set about "could not do what you wanted"
[11:33] <jam> perrito666: and I was hoping  to, you know, *see* the reason why it had been failing.
[11:33] <jam> perrito666: mongodb has the same content as "juju status" and "juju show-machine" and "juju show-status-log" which means at least the reporting layer isn't lying
[11:38] <perrito666> jam: mmmm, interesting
[11:39] <perrito666> so I can do an educated guess, iirc, there used to be this rule: "You cant set error without the data field being populated" if still in place, the status set for error might be failing
[11:40] <perrito666> status history setting happens inside set status and is non guaranteed and non stopping so even though set status history fails, set status might succeed, so its not that breaking it, or should not be
[11:44] <jam> perrito666: hm. it seems to be setting the values on the agent's message
[11:44] <jam> perrito666: https://pastebin.canonical.com/176150/
[11:44] <perrito666> checking
[11:44] <jam> so while the values are there for something
[11:44] <jam> it isn't the machine object
[11:46] <jam> perrito666: is there a way to get the history for the "juju-status" portion of 'show-machine' ?
[11:46] <jam> perrito666: After debugging a bit more I do see a 'statuseshistory' entry for something
[11:47] <jam> "globalkey" : "m#1/lxd/6#instance", isn't interesting, but "globalkey" : "m#1/lxd/6" is
[11:50] <jam> perrito666: it looks like we added code so that if a machine isn't Stopped or Pending, then it overwrites the value of the juju-status field with "agent not communicating"
[11:50] <jam> however, it doesn't handle if the status is Error
[11:51] <jam> perrito666: juju show-status-log --type juju-machine XXX is what I wanted
[11:59] <perrito666> jam: sorry someone was at the door back to you
[12:00] <perrito666> jam: mm that is iirc, what cheril added and most likely I finished which is a proper "hardware" status
[12:00] <jam> perrito666: "what I wanted" meaning that's where the actual information *is* but it was quite confusing to find.
[12:00] <perrito666> we hold status for agent which is juju agent and "instance" which is the underlying status of the actual hardware
[12:01] <jam> and the fact that we were setting a field which defaults to being overridden
[12:04] <perrito666> jam: now, that was a bad design decision, I wonder we we did that
[12:04] <jam> perrito666: I think the idea is that you can't trust the status if the agent isn't communicating/you want to let the user know that the status is stale.
[12:04] <jam> perrito666: but I think it fundamentally is just "we should be setting InstanceStatus" during provisioning
[12:04] <jam> not Status
[12:04] <perrito666> ahhh indeed, but that should not override error
[12:05] <jam> perrito666: it *doesn't* override Pending or Stopped
[12:05] <jam> but that is the only check
[12:05] <jam> I don't know whether Error was just not thought of
[12:06] <perrito666> jam: btw, instance status is set during provisioning iirc
[12:08] <jam> perrito666: *if* you call apiserver.provisioner...machine.SetInstanceStatus it will call that and machine.SetStatus
[12:08] <jam> perrito666: however, the provisioner code itself *only* calls SetStatus, *not* SetInstanceStatus
[12:08] <jam> perrito666: when there is a provisioning failure
[12:08] <jam> perrito666: unless the machine.SetStatus client-side is actually calling SetInstanceStatus
[12:09] <jam> perrito666: however, i'm not seeing any history in "juju show-status-log --type machine 1/lxd/3"
[12:10] <perrito666> jam: but there is an instancestatuspoller
[12:11] <jam> perrito666: this is container provisioning stuff that I'm specifically focused on.
[12:11] <jam> perrito666: but I'm pretty sure the maas status messages also end up in "juju-status" not "machine-status"
[12:11] <jam> I could be wrong there
[12:11] <jam> its been a while
[12:12] <perrito666> jam: mmm, odd, I wonder if the filter is ok... try getting all types and see if your global key shows (I dont recall the actuall syntax for this)
[12:12] <perrito666> I am pretty sure there is a thing called instancesomethingpoller that populates the instance status
[12:13] <jam> perrito666: so m#1/lxd/6/ is interesting m#1/lxd/6#instance is not
[12:13] <jam> for the purposes of seeing "failed to create instance"
[12:13] <jam> sort of thing
[12:14] <perrito666> jam: I see, we need to polish that then
[12:14] <jam> perrito666: well, its what I'm working on *right now*, fortunately :)
[12:14] <perrito666> jam: would it be too much of a hassle to ask you to put up a bug with that info pointed in my direction?
[12:14] <perrito666> ahhh
[12:14] <jam> perrito666: bug #1650252
[12:14] <mup> Bug #1650252: juju add-machine lxd:N --constraints INVALID does not show provisioning error <lxd> <observability> <provisioning> <ui> <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1650252>
[12:14] <perrito666> I thought you where workin on something else and got hit by this issue
[12:15] <jam> perrito666: I got hit by this issue when I refuse to start an LXD instance because of a misconfiguration, and no error is shown to the user.
[12:16] <perrito666> gotcha, I believe there is another ux pain point there where instance status is not getting the right info
[12:16] <jam> perrito666: so do you think that if juju-status is in Error it should not suppress the message when the agent is not alive?
[12:17] <perrito666> jam: I am unsure if that is the right place to show that error
[12:17] <perrito666> I mean, its not an error from the agent
[12:17] <perrito666> we are posting "there should be an agent here, but we could not give you one"
[12:43] <perrito666> why is it that memory leaks never come up when one needs them :p
[15:07] <natefinch> voidspace: your mic is not working
[15:20] <voidspace> natefinch: thanks
[17:38] <redir> pong
[17:38] <redir> oops
[22:57]  * thumper sighs
[22:57] <thumper> more freaking intermittent failures
[22:57]  * thumper picks one
[22:58] <redir> :|
[22:59] <thumper> freaking peergrouper tests...
[22:59] <thumper> http://reports.vapour.ws/releases/issue/5617dbc6749a562f5cdd8efc
[22:59]  * thumper dives on it
[23:01]  * perrito666 tried to get mongo to accept 0.25G as a way of expressing 256M
[23:02] <menn0> babbageclunk: bug 1569632 is done right?
[23:02] <mup> Bug #1569632: indicate "migrating" in show-model status output <juju:Triaged by 2-xtian> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569632>
[23:03] <perrito666> ghaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, this only became a float in 3.4
[23:03]  * perrito666 cries on the floor
[23:04] <perrito666> are we getting mongo 3.4 rsn?
[23:04] <menn0> perrito666: we probably should
[23:05] <perrito666> menn0: yup, especially because until that wired tiger cache is bound to take 1G as the minimum possible parameter
[23:06] <menn0> perrito666: really?
[23:06] <perrito666> menn0: well the command line param does not support floats until 3.4
[23:06] <perrito666> so we can allow it to choose but that does half the ram minus 1g
[23:06] <menn0> perrito666: and it doesn't take a unit/
[23:06] <menn0> ?
[23:06] <perrito666> nooope
[23:06] <perrito666> technically it does
[23:06] <perrito666> its /var/lib/juju/init/juju-db/juju-db.service
[23:07] <perrito666> --wiredTigerCacheSizeGB
[23:07] <perrito666> there
[23:07] <perrito666> so, it takes one unit :) GB
[23:07] <menn0> perrito666: well that just sucks
[23:08] <perrito666> after standup Ill glog my upload  by deploying a hughe bundle and see how this new setting bodes (even If I ask for 1G it will be better than allowing it to grow at will
[23:08] <perrito666> s/glog/clog
[23:11] <menn0> perrito666: regardless, it might be worth starting the ball rolling for moving to mongodb 3.4
[23:11] <perrito666> yup, I just need to try and remember who was the packager
[23:16] <menn0> perrito666: was it mwhudson ?
[23:16] <perrito666> yes, tx
[23:16] <perrito666> sorry I am a bit distracted today
[23:16] <perrito666> mwhudson: hello, you might remember me from, lets upgrade to mongo 3.1 and lets upgrade to mongo 3.2
[23:16] <perrito666> mwhudson: lets upgrade to mongo 3..4
[23:20] <menn0> thumper: are you available for a quick hangout?
[23:21] <thumper> sure
[23:21] <thumper> menn0: 1:1 hangout?
[23:21] <menn0> thumper: yep
[23:39] <wallyworld> thumper: when you are free, PTAL at PR 6815, issues fixed
[23:39] <wallyworld> thanks for review
[23:41] <perrito666> so, hangouts or bluejeans?
[23:45] <anastasiamac> perrito666: ho


[00:25] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #321: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/321/
[00:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1012: SUCCESS in 1 min 53 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1012/
[01:44] <tgBot10> Mit0 was added by: Mit0
 hola
[02:03] <tgBot10> PCMRwill0956 was added by: PCMRwill0956
 Hi!
 I came here looking to get Ubuntu Touch working on my OnePlus 5
 Sadly, it's only available on the OPO, 2, and X for now.
 3 too. Forgot about that
 Welcome @unaj1 & @PCMRwill0956
[02:21] <tgBot10> <Artem K.> @UniversalSuperBox, P
[05:58] <ubports_bot> Project vivid-rootfs-armhf build #127: SUCCESS in 1 hr 31 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/vivid-rootfs-armhf/127/
[06:06] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1013: SUCCESS in 7 min 47 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1013/
[06:18] <tgBot10> Sal was added by: Sal
 @PCMRwill0956, Yes, not yet, lots depens on cooperation with halium project, when that will be worked out porting should go smoother 😇
[07:42] <tgBot10> BronzoKTM was added by: BronzoKTM
[08:24] <ubports_bot> Project daily-fp2 build #339: SUCCESS in 14 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/339/
[08:25] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1014: SUCCESS in 1 min 13 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1014/
 @BronzoKTM, Welcome
 @Sal, Welcome
 In Dekko isn't appears the subject o asunto. Appears the e-mail direction but not the subject.
 @DanChapman is working on the notifications to have more functionality. all in good time 😊
 👍
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/FtqqDW5R/file_524.jpg
 feels good
 @wayneoutthere, Strong echo on Joe's audio feed
 I had real problems installing apps yesterday on my 4.5
 the open store app wouldn't update itself, and i couldn't install tents
 i got the button to install/update, and it would show the bouncer while it did it, then went back to the same screen showing an update/install button again
 wonder if I'm out of disk space
 (probably)
 (yes)
 @popeydc, How much space?
 zero, now :)
 :(
 Ubuntu Touch does not clean up the .cache folder. Over time, all phones run ouf of space
 We may create an intelligent cleaner in the future.
 ... called uClean :P
 @Flohack, is it possible for us to fix the codebase properly? if so, upstreaming should be possible ... and otherwise it's a temporary halium fork until the mir situation is sorted. Or am i missing something?
 Or add an option somewhere (settings a where
 @TronFourtyTwo, +1
 is it possible to just install the ubuntu touch qtcreator templates inthe the normal qtcreator ?
 or at least where can i find them ?
 @Cesar_Herrera, this. i'd also like a handy solution on the desktop for this. i have a separate home partition with .config files for long gone programs from forotten eras, and no sensible way to see which .config file is still relevant or not...
 @TronFourtyTwo, Perhaps this should be automatically handled by the click package (un)installer when an app gets removed, as it happens on Android
 @sverzegnassi, Maybe Canonical considered it a feature, if you reinstall the app you will get back your data too
 answered my own question https://github.com/nathan-osman/ubuntu-touch-examples :)
 @delijati but then you will need the ubuntu.components in the qtcreator
 @TronFourtyTwo, The permanent storage for apps is XDG_DATA_HOME (or XDG_CONFIG_HOME), and those data should eventually be preserved. If an app uses the XDG_CACHE_HOME folder for essential/critical data, I would say it is badly designed tbh, and we should impose a proper behavior. I rather think that Canonical never finished or refined the 'click' tool, as they started to work on snap at some point
 That's accurate.
 Click development was effectively halted when snapd started development
 @rogieroudshoorn, Actually we are evaluating which libhybris patches are needed to make it compatible with Mir. But you know, there is a long commit history, so Canonical´s libhybris version has significantly diverged from upstream. But probably we need to do this
 @Flohack, I'll see what I can find out. I know there were a couple of Mir EGL related patches, but didn't realise it had "significantly diverged".
 @alan_griffiths, Well maybe I am making this too big. But currently we simlply cannot start Mir on top of that, so it must be smth significant
 😆
 @Flohack, JBB made a patch for it. No one has tested it.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yes thats what I mean with evaluating 😆
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/rlLuanyY/file_525.patch
 (Sticker, 390x512) https://irc.ubports.com/jGCJswWW/file_526.webp
 loooool
 I also have the original commit's if you need them (on my github account)
 (Sticker, 390x512) https://irc.ubports.com/swtRcIE4/file_527.webp
 This patch is meaned to to be included into the debian packaging, where commits are not important anyway
 lol I am distracted
 @JBBgameich, I know, I'm just poking fun. :)
 OK. Let me know if/when I can help out.
 Thanks, Alan!
 @alan_griffiths, I think that the both versions were diverged at 19 commits ... Everything is still easily mergable. The  problem is that upstream probably won't merge the mir patches
 but they could be simply included into the debian packaging
 It might depend on whether it's Halium or Mer that we consider upstream
 I suppose that's irrelevant right now
 github.com/libhybris/libhybris
 Right, that's Mer's.
 that's the "upstream" I'm talking of
 and it's also upstream for the Halium version
 Yep
 No, I don't think Mer would accept Mir patches
 Even though it's only one letter away
 It would be good to minimise any differences. It makes sense to keep Mir EGL out of upstream, as the future of that is unclear. But I don't know if any other changes are significant or could be upstreamed.
 @UniversalSuperBox what is the current experimental 16.04 on N5 using?
 (Sticker, 390x512) https://irc.ubports.com/l0pyxRHV/file_528.webp
 I tested building libhybris with the patch, that works fine with mir support
 I pushed my changes to this git repository in case someone is interested: https://github.com/debian-pm/libhybris-packaging/commits/ubports
 What happened to the project to translate mir calls to Wayland?
[12:28] <tgBot10> oliviertripet was added by: oliviertripet
 @oliviertripet, Welcome!
[12:40] <tgBot10> Simon Bor was added by: Simon Bor
 @Simon Bor, Welcome!
[12:41] <tgBot10> <Simon Bor> Thanks
 @JBBgameich, That build configuration should be correct for ubuntu touch, right? … ``` … Configuration Options: …   debug build.............: no …   trace...................: no …   experimental features...: yes …   prefix..................: /usr …   arch  ..................: x86 …   headers path ...........:  …   Android version.........: 7.1.1 …   default egl platform ...: mir …   default ld_library_path.: /vendor/lib:/sys
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project daily-mako build #114: SUCCESS in 12 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-mako/114/
 does anybody know when the RC version for N5 is going be the new stable?
[12:56] <tgBot10> Johan was added by: Johan
[12:56] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1015: SUCCESS in 57 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1015/
 @JBBgameich, Sounds good
 @Josué, Wrong channel, but we had to delay it a bit more. Probably more info tomorrow on the Q&A
 why is it wrong channel? (genuine question, I'm not trying to be mean or anything)
 Haha sorrry my fault ;)
 Its the right channel, thought you wrote in Halium
 I start to get confused by my hefty list of channels
 haha, no worries :)
 @samzn, Good point. No answer. Put it on the Q&A list ;) if you like
 @Flohack, I think the libhybris problem could be fixed then. The fixed version just has to be tested on Halium with Ubuntu touch
 I have a xenial build for armhf (built with the above configuration). If someone wants to test it, I can upload it somewhere
 @JBBgameich, cool yes plz
 @JBBgameich, ouuuuuuu, maybe we could also get it on the system image server
 maybe after the dust around ota 2 has settled
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/6AeV0uQ8/file_529.zip
 @Stereofont, yeah. that's going in 'what went wrong last week' next week ;)
 hope that build works :) Please inform me if I made any dumb mistakes 😆
 @UniversalSuperBox, MER!!!!  Not MIR????
 Meh
 @Lorxu, ah! MEH, not MIR or MER!  Thanks!
 (Photo, 202x243) https://irc.ubports.com/bZ0sMxdY/file_531.jpg
 Hi @wayneoutthere
 @wayneoutthere, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mer_(software_distribution) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(software)
 @PhoenixLandPirate, howdy.
 @neothethird, Yawn!  Thank you!  I won't read it but thank yoU!
 @wayneoutthere, How are you doing?
 are the easiest devices to port to UT the devices that run pure android?
 @wayneoutthere, Mer is the software base for Sailfish OS. Its purpose is to separate the Sailfish stuff from anything lower level. Mir is a display protocol, server and client. Its purpose is to draw pretty pictures.
 @h4888, All devices are similarly difficult
 But it helps to have an open-source device and kernel tree, and vendor binaries available.
 I see this: https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/26/14741504/nokia-6-nokia-5-nokia-3-android-phones-mwc-2017
 I'm guessing the devices are too "new" though?
 @h4888, Well it depends. Too new is not the right category, since if we got a working tree it should not matter. Actually we are trying to catch up to Android 7.1 devices
 fairphones are not accessible to me, so this seems like the next best option
 (Sticker, 512x384) https://irc.ubports.com/lZvouhHh/file_532.webp
 a few weeks ago you were evaluating cheap devices with good specs as a suitable platform for ubports. Like Zuk Z2 or similar phones. Well, I have another good candidate: Leeco Le Max 2, low price, good specs, availability of custom roms (unfortunately, no SD slot). Also Leeco Le Pro 3. (Leeco is in financial troubles, lately)
 snapdragon 820 & 821, respectively
 But there are also another couple of 820 based phones that are affordable...
 another interesting option could be the next probable bestseller: Xiaomi MI A1, running android one
 though the availability of sources is in doubt...
 (Sticker, 512x384) https://irc.ubports.com/Befx07S0/file_532.webp
 And there is the Xperia Z, with the SailfishOS port (=> mer works for sure).
 @enriconia, the xiaomi redmi note 3 would be an excellent candidate too just because it sold so comically well
 let me check the specs :)
 the intl' variant with the snapdragon in particular
 Snapdragon 650 I believe, 3GB of VRAM, 32GB of onboard storage, ran 5.1 out of the box, upgradable to 6.0 officially with excellent custom ROM support besides some firmware hell
 interesting
 I had one for a while but ended up selling it and going for a OnePlus 3T
 btw, who cares for security and privacy should disable fingerprint sensor...
 @enriconia, Explain a bit more?
[15:57] <tgBot10> ray6an1 was added by: ray6an1
 welcome :)
 Thanks
 @Stereofont, Well, forging a fingerprint is top easy...
 Too easy
 @enriconia, Like your "FaceID" 😆
 Yes...
 A QR code would be, if kept securely, a good alternative
 For example, hanging from a necklace
 @enriconia, Ah. You mean direct access. I was thinking local storage, not spoofing
 I wonder how something you leave everywhere can be considered a secret key...
 @Flohack, If the masks were made to a visible light specification not surprising they fail an infra-red scan
 @UniversalSuperBox, sweet.  you saved me trying to learn!
 @BronzoKTM, snappy... quick question: is snappy ubuntu going to be possible for Ubuntu Touch again?  Or is it possible now?  Or is snappy on Ubuntu Touch bye bye sayanara?
 @wayneoutthere, It's a solid maybe. To all of your questions.
 i still feel Snappy is the way to go for this.  it makes perfect sense from wha I understand of it.   But my question is what would you guys like to see running on touch that I might be able to snap
 I'm learning how so that's why I ask
 the apps for example?
 @kz6fittycent, good.  I'm 110% sure that snappy is a good thing.  I just don't fully understand what it is.  HA
 i thought it would be: … -base stuff (stuff that 100% of people want/need) like calculator, ... and calculator.. and.. ok so just the calculator … and then you 'snap' the rest on top.
 Think of it like what Apple does with dmg packages. It's all in there. Everything and it self updates independent of the system. Plus you can run really old deprecated apps that require old libs
 yeah this running old stuff is good too
 Someone just snapped chromium... They were mentioning it in the Solus group
 yep
 So chromium on touch... Hmm
 @kz6fittycent, Isn't that more like AppImage?
 If snappys are semi-autonomous couldn't they be used maliciously?
 Umm I guess except that snaps provide a number of security measures that snapd won't let you mess with
 @Stereofont, That depends? Snaps are by default heavily sandboxed
 @AlexanderPlaza, Yes... This
 @JBBgameich, Sort of. Snaps can integrate better than appimages though
 To the point where you require some terminal skills to get it to even talk outside of the sandbox.
 @AlexanderPlaza, That also depends on the way the snap was built. It depends on the interfaces that are used.
 Now if you mean like "eat up battery life" or "try to use up all your data" then perhaps? I haven't had the chance/been able to run Snaps in a tablet/phone
 @kz6fittycent, That is true.
 They can get quite large so space might be an issue for touch but there's a snap for htop... You could run it on touch
 I mentioned it because it's small
 @kz6fittycent, I thought they were going to be shrinking the size due to having a "resource snap" that can be referenced by other snaps? Or is that still not implemented yet?
 It's coming
 There's a ton of new stuff coming soon
 Better theme integration etc
 The separate core snap would be most interesting to us.
 Need to see what comes of it
 Snaps were designed for server kinds of stuff but... That desktop tho
 Well you already have platform snaps. Like the ubuntu-app-platform which provides all the ubuntu-sdk-libs and other touch related libraries
 Yes
 So the question is, how does one install a snap on touch?
 Sudo snap install Foo?
 in short. you can't 😊
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yeah but I don't want to sound glass half empty but I don't want the nightmare of .NET frameworks again...
 Same as desktop?
 @kz6fittycent, Couldn't you do it from the software centre as well?
 you would first need to get snapd running on the touch with required apparmor stuffs
 @AlexanderPlaza, Is really not like that
 @kz6fittycent, Well okay we have one version of Snappy Resources but then eventually we would need a version 2.0, etc.etc.
 @AlexanderPlaza, You mean the desktop, yes. But on touch, that'd be nice to do
 @AlexanderPlaza, Yes but with snap it's all independent if the core os
 I mean there's a snap for docker... Think about that for a minute
 @kz6fittycent, Is there a snap for docker? Mmm
 I'm not a fan of docker because I've seen it break my servers first hand. Snaps don't
 @AlexanderPlaza, Yes
 (Photo, 1280x1024) https://irc.ubports.com/02tLMTD6/file_535.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x1024) https://irc.ubports.com/fU0p1n9w/file_537.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x1024) https://irc.ubports.com/tUNgO6np/file_539.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x1024) https://irc.ubports.com/ctLzq7V0/file_541.jpg
 okay, no more photos but you get the point. It's as easy as that
 Cool! Currently I love using Snaps for servers however running into the small issue so far of running different snaps (Rocket.Chat/NextCloud) and have them accessible by different domain names. example: rocketchat.domain.com … Nextcloud.domain.net
 @kz6fittycent, Impressive! The only problem is would it remove the docker container it created/filesystem
 yeah, you have to dig into the configs of the snap directory that it created. You can edit conf files in there but beyond that...
 @AlexanderPlaza, A Mothersnap
 it's all contained IN the snap directory, once the snap is removed, that's it
 if any files remain, sudo rm -rf /foo
 the file structure is replicated IN snap's directory to include /bin /etc yada yada
 then the snap gets the application to "see" the replicated file  as the real thing...et viola
 also, depending on the way that the snap was made, the application files can persist OR they can be duplicated in a NEW directory so as to save the last files, safely. THEN you can deduplicate those files once you're confident
 @kz6fittycent, Not exactly a consumer product then
 @Stereofont, again, it depends...
 On a  UI frontend
 most snaps have security in mind but there are some new things coming that I've heard about (don't know for sure) that will make integration much easier for Joe Schmoe
 @Stereofont, No, keep in mind, there's a new snap for Chromium...so you get the desktop entry, icon, etc. Just like the real thing
 I've built a snap (based on Nextcloud's client snap) that runs just like the real thing. It doesn't respect theming yet, but it will...
 I mean, if Ikey from Solus is behind it, and he was dead set against it, that should say a lot. He spoke of his reasons (and they're quite logical) in a recent episode of the Late Nite Linux show
 @nfsprodriver, +1
 Please keep in mind that snaps even if they would run in 16.04 flawlessly have no access to content hub and probably other stuff of Touch that are needed to make really useful apps
 The next thing is: Old apps are insecure apps. I am really afraid that people will use grandfather snap for 20 years with old OpenSSL libs because the app is supercool but the maintainer gives a crap about updating it
 @Flohack, Did you already see the zip I sent?
 I am therefore not a great fan of snaps, end resource snaps defeat a bit the principle of self-contained stuff. You create some kind of dependency again which might break. Thats the pity with binary libs. And the huge advantage of Android with java, you cannot break Apps that fast
 @JBBgameich, Yes but I have neither time nor the setup to test on Halium now ;) will keep it warm
 ok :)
[17:33] <tgBot10> AlexiPistonrod was added by: AlexiPistonrod
 Here's an idea (granted it's probably a bad one) … What if someone built a click app for snapd on Touch?
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but snapd isn't running on Touch, right?
 correct
 I think snaps requires systemd when UT uses upstart
 ah okay
 that'd be a problem
 To me it seems snaps/snappy is a really cool idea but the right  implementation needs a lot of work
 I was just talking about that :)
 So what would be the hardest part about porting snapd to ubports?
 I mean if you can get it on a Raspberry pi shoudl not be to ohard to get on Media tek devices should it?
 canonical/edge channel on m10 had a sort or working snap
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHE5THEWq7c
 @AlexiPistonrod, kernel patches, and interfaces to other apps
 i think i managed to install some snaps
[18:09] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> but the kernel stuff is mainly Apparmor which should be there since click uses the same mechanisms right?
 but only simple cli like hello world worked
 Published on Feb 12, 2017
 omg!
 Well given the kernel needs updating anyway rolling in patches from a newer build should not be a show stopper. And Apparmor is going to be upstreamd to the kernel in 4.19 anyway..
 I set up a repository containing the libhybris builds for easier installing and updating … This is the gpgkey: https://packagecloud.io/JBBgameich/ubports/gpgkey
 7 months ago :(
 https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/LSM/apparmor.html
[18:13] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/wiki/Distributions
 @JBBgameich, 👍
 Oh I have to say that the repository is only for Halium 7.1 + UBports 16.04 and maybe the builds are not working meaning it's all experimental :)
[18:17] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> @popescu_sorin, was that on BQ M10 or which device?
 yes bq m10 fhd
[18:17] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> kk, cause IIRC the snaps that ran on BQ M10 only were for arm64 not armhf so it won't run on most other devices -.-
 probably, i only tested on m10 :D
[18:18] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> haven't got one of those 😞 but thx for the info 👍
 welcome
[18:23] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> if we want to switch to snaps one day i think we need to build something like the Ubuntu-App-Platform snap (which replaced the ubuntu-sdk-15.04 framework for 16.04 AFAIK) and than switch all apps to the new framework right? I thought about this since it also would be the way to run the phone apps on any x86 tablet/PC today (since the 15.04 framework is not packaged for 16.04 and i can't find the sources to that...)
[18:23] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-platform
[18:24] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> (and if we packaged the 15.04.6 framework as a snap couldn't we just build all clicks as snaps "the same way" so we can experiment with the exact same apps on 16.04 x86 hardware + yunit?)
[18:24] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> (sorry for spamming 😜)
[18:25] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> disclaimer: i am a noob so stop me if i'm jibbering nonsense 😆
[18:40] <tgBot10> PacoIgnazioTaiboII was added by: PacoIgnazioTaiboII
 Hi guys!
 @Flohack, I can see it being useful for very specific areas such as some hardware... Think lightscribe. Manufacturers still sell burners that can do that.
[18:44] <tgBot10> <demokrit atomos> @PacoIgnazioTaiboII, Hi
 Heh. just rebooted the phone. its called ubuntu touch again? :-P
 @Stereofont, this is a cool term.  We need a new verb too then when a Mothersnap is installed.  Something like 'snap' that's 'fast' but 'bigger'.. and louder... too tired to craft up words.
 @YougoChats, yes? 😆
 @YougoChats, Screenshot or it didnt happen
 @wayneoutthere, A Queen snap could found a Hive
 i dont have two devices available right now
 Cellphone lol
 @Stereofont, what?
 @wayneoutthere, LOL I can see the next audiocast
 THE MOTHER OF ALL SNAPS!
 @YougoChats, Re: Wayne
 @Stereofont, nice!!
 'To hive"
 I just hived a Mothersnap
 leeeel
[19:24] <ccat> what happened to #ubuntu-touch ?
 @NikosChat, SystemD on a GNU/Linux phone? 😱🙊
 @NikosChat, Aw
 (Photo, 490x503) https://irc.ubports.com/ozrUQ1YZ/file_542.jpg
 between that and the hamster wheel, i finally have a good picture of what my linux pc is like under the hood.
 @YougoChats, You can use distros that are SystemD-free .
 so i can give myself a hard time? no thanks. i just want to get stuff done most of th etime
[19:37] <ccat> what happened to #ubuntu-touch ?
 @ccat, Its forwarded into our IRC channel
 ok so sorry this is probably way off topic (but not really because I started Snap-Chat above) but here is the question and I don't need hyper details just wayne-style low llevel: … Is Unity... going to happen?   … or, do I have to (pretty soon) move over to weirdo-gnome?
 I mean unity for like my laptop...
 @Flohack, Might as well make that a IRC <-> Matix bridge too ;)
[19:47] <tgBot10> gostranger was added by: gostranger
 Hi
 @AlexiPistonrod, You came in late to that discussion…
 Yeah well. better late then never ;)
[19:52] <ccat> how do i respond to any of you?  your nicks are not listed in users list
 yep
 you are on IRC we are on telegram
 You cant do this 😆
[19:58] <ccat> well you can still see me, so at least there is that :)
[20:07] <ccat> so is this the place to ask about Laptop touchscreens now too?
 ^^
 Laptop what? Ubuntu Touch is about a mobile operating system
 😆
 @wayneoutthere, huh tough question. @jsalatas has the details ;)
[20:12] <ccat> ohhhhh, well best be going then :)
 hehe
 come back any time if you dont like Android 😆
[20:13] <ccat> ty, bb!
 Who hates android??
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/e4KZ0xUV/file_543.mp4
 i used UBports all day long as a main OS on my Nexus 5
 notifications center (or whatever it's called) makes me angry and sad
 every small tweak is placed on a separate tab and there are just too many of them
 is there any way to group them in one place?
 uff zou guzs have wrote a lot in last 12 hours :)
 What init system uses Ubports?
 @JBBgameich, that looks ... awesome, even thou it is experimental :)
 (Sticker, 512x452) https://irc.ubports.com/r4QI1c9A/file_544.webp
 @Flohack, kind of... but can't i install ubports on my laptop and then get rid of unity?  dang it this stuff is too convoluted and spread out.    No problem!  Shall do!
 @vanyasem, Is a design choice, after some time you get used to it and you start to really like it (at least, I do)
 I find it really confusing why should I move to one tab to enable wifi, then scroll all the way to the end to adjust the brightness a little, then get back to bluetooth page and connect to my headphones
 im like wtf
 Systemd not please 🤢
 @vanyasem, When you are pulling down the bar, without release your finger move it to the right/left you can scroll the various indicators easily and fast. When you get practice is pretty fast.
 oh i see, didn't know that
 still, the amount of tabs is crazy
 At the end anyway is just a personal opinion, I don't think one way is better than another
 im always in pain no matter what i use, just wanted to ask for an opinion :)
 @vanyasem, Yes, some indicators are pretty empty...
 @vanyasem, Sure :D
 a crazy (probably outdated) idea just came to my head ... have anybody tryied to create image for raspberry pi?
 haven§t seen anything in forum besides fact that there is no halium etc neccessary
 You basically need to install the raspberry pi kernel and firmware package instead of libhybris, but Ubuntu Touch is maybe not compatible with non-libhybris ports currently
 @wayneoutthere, Isn't it already happening? :)
 @jsalatas, which part? that was a two part post (lesson learned not to do that)
[21:02] <ubports_bot> Project daily-bacon build #270: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-bacon/270/
 @wayneoutthere, The Unity/Yunit part
[21:03] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1016: SUCCESS in 1 min 6 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1016/
 @JBBgameich, I was affraid that there will be missing unification into low level/drivers expectations
[21:28] <tgBot10> mathhewj was added by: mathhewj
[21:29] <tgBot10> ved pachauri was added by: ved pachauri
 hi guys, I am trying to flash my One+one with ubuntu touch, using windows 10 and CPT 0.5, the flash image installed ok, but with putting the device into recovery mode, and click install ubuntu, CPT states: device in recovery mode: NOT FOUND, any ideas?
 first thought: check if your adb/fastboot drivers are installed and working properly
 oh.. I didn't see that mentioned on the install notes. will try this now.
[21:42] <serrrgggeee> hello I have a chuwi hi 10 pro and try to install ubuntu or mint, i've installed ubuntu 17.2 but does't working wifi and touchscreen.
[21:43] <serrrgggeee> is it avalable to install successfull
[22:07] <tgBot10> aki237 was added by: aki237
 Guys I want to port Ubuntu touch for Zuk Z1 which has board almost equal to OP One
 Any instructions on how to get started?
 You should start with porting Halium to it, you can start reading docs.halium.org
[22:18] <tgBot10> fakesnowden was added by: fakesnowden
[22:23] <tgBot10> Rigo was added by: Rigo
 Halium... What is it? Is it like libc and adaptation layer for the device?
 (Sticker, 512x452) https://irc.ubports.com/tgxcTXE5/file_544.webp
 Why snaps or snappys are insecure??
 I read in blogs or news that are more secure than the app or apk.
 Ubuntu Touch need a reorganation to be more usefull or scopes informatiopn.
 At this moment, Ubuntu touch what use, apps or snaps?
 @Jaume81, click apps
 did... someone say 'click'?
 (Photo, 200x385) https://irc.ubports.com/f7SZxzO9/file_546.jpg
 I just hived my laptop with a Mothersnap
 (just testing to see how it sounds)
 get back to work - all of you
 @Jaume81, I asked a question. I didn't know
 @aki237, When you say 'equal' you mean basically the same phone?
 What are click apps??


[19:48] <pavlushka> zaki: o/
[19:48] <zaki> hey pavlushka
[19:48] <zaki> how are you doing?
[19:48] <pavlushka> zaki: anything up?
[19:48] <pavlushka> zaki: I am doing cold
[19:48] <zaki> pavlushka, as usual
[19:48] <zaki> ha ha , it's cold here too.
[19:49] <zaki> 18.4 showing on meter :D
[19:50] <pavlushka> zaki: my station is housed inside, it is showing 17, so must be 15-16c
[19:50] <zaki> yes.
[19:51] <zaki> I'm about to root my android 9
[19:51] <pavlushka> zaki: Still need to make a proper case to save the device from rain, so not yet put it top over our house
[19:51] <zaki> pavlushka, stock android is great
[19:51] <pavlushka> zaki: cool
[19:52] <zaki> pavlushka, no water proof case yet?
[19:54] <pavlushka> zaki: The LAN/UTP cables and power cables need to pass through, so cannot seal it off totally and could not device a case to keep it safe from rain yet
[19:55] <pavlushka> keeping holes for the cables and also the sensor need to be in kind of in open adds up to the case design difficulty
[20:09] <pavlushka> zaki: solved a problem in comments https://askubuntu.com/q/1103320/505225, lol
[20:09] <u-la-la> [ apt - The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 76F1A20FF987672F - Ask Ubuntu ] - https://askubuntu.com
[20:12] <zaki> he he.
[20:13] <zaki> pavlushka, have you shared your whole device image somewhere ?
[20:13] <pavlushka> sorry?
[20:14] <zaki> I mean weather station
[20:14] <zaki> I have seen only the diagram
[20:14] <pavlushka> zaki: may be not
[20:15] <pavlushka> no
[20:20] <pavlushka> night night
[20:20] <zaki> pavlushka, Donald J. Trump tweeted something hilarious.
[20:20] <zaki> good night


[20:43] <Evropi> XChat is no longer maintained
[20:43] <Evropi> have you looked at http://www.hexchat.org/home or other forks like PChat at all?
[20:43] <Evropi> you could always go with an alternative, ofc, but XChat is one of the best out there for GTK
[20:46] <Unit193> Pchat nor hexchat are currently in the repo at this time.
[20:47] <Evropi> dang, true
[20:47] <Evropi> have you considered any other IRC clients for the future?
[20:49] <Evropi> Smuxi needs GNOME libraries AFAIK and frankly it's too complicated for the average eRepublik player (it's not just nerds like me who use IRC, it's huge for online games)
[21:20] <corrado> hi
[21:46] <Pjotr> Congratulations and thanks for the fine Xubuntu 12.10! The new Xfce 4.10 is great stuff to work with. :-)
[21:47] <Pjotr> Nice to see some of my new upstream translations have landed as well...
[21:47] <astraljava> Hey Pjotr! Thanks for those! :)
[21:49] <Pjotr> Does anybody know if any work is planned for fixing this harmless but very visible bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1039375
[21:56] <Pjotr> mr_pouit: do you know whether someone is addressing this bug?


[05:47] <YoBoY> good morning
[05:52] <philipballew> good evening
[08:05] <NRWlion> hey there
[15:05] <NRWlion> hey there
[15:07] <akgraner> hey
[15:07] <akgraner> YoBoy - can you give me the link to the French translation of UWN
[15:08] <akgraner> I'd like to look at the previous/next text you all use on your pages
[15:08]  * akgraner goes back to UWN summaries :-)
[15:08] <YoBoY> it's not on the french translation of uwn we use that
[15:09] <akgraner> ahh I misunderstood then...oops
[15:09] <YoBoY> we actualy are not translating uwn since... better not look at it ^^"
[15:09] <akgraner> hehe no worries
[15:09] <akgraner> do you have previous and next on any of your wiki pages?
[15:09] <YoBoY> we use it on our frnech documentation http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/oneiric <<
[15:09] <akgraner> ahhh ok
[15:09] <akgraner> great
[15:10] <akgraner> just adding looking into it on my todo list and needed a place to start :-)
[15:10] <akgraner> YoBoY, thank you!
[15:10] <YoBoY> but be carreful, it's not a moinmoin wiki, it's a dokuwiki, not the same syntax
[15:10] <YoBoY> (and I have a css bug to fix xD )
[15:11] <NRWlion> anything to do here?
[15:11] <NRWlion> :D
[15:11] <YoBoY> NRWlion: hugs to everyone :)
[15:15]  * philipballew wonders the same
[15:15]  * NRWlion hugs every1 in the room
[15:16] <NRWlion> akgraner: did you see my comment on the leadership doc on google docs?
[15:17] <akgraner> yep - just haven't gotten there yet today :-)
[15:18] <akgraner> philipballew, I haven't started the spread sheet yet if you want to set that up...
[15:18] <akgraner> or would you rather I did - I'm a little behind...heck one second  - I'll snag you the link
[15:18] <akgraner> or rather a link
[15:20] <philipballew> akgraner, alright. i can look at it today.
[15:21] <akgraner> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtKZelXU8Y2LdHluVk1BSXlPMDdfT3lVUEZhS211QUE&hl=en_US
[15:22] <akgraner> feel free to change it  :-)  that's just the basic start
[15:23] <NRWlion> akgraner: if approved i'd like to give some comments on that spreadsheet too
[15:24] <akgraner> no need to be approved :-)  just jump in :-)
[15:24] <akgraner> all feedback is welcome and encourage
[15:25] <akgraner> just wanted to work on finding resources we can point people to and use ourselves when adapting a skill set to the Ubuntu Community etc
[15:26]  * akgraner heads back to summaries :-)
[15:27] <philipballew> well off to my day! ill be bacl on around 5
[15:27] <philipballew> *back
[16:12] <NRWlion> akgraner: may i steal a minute of your time pls?
[16:13] <NRWlion> have some points i'd like to discuss on the leadership skills spreadsheet you linked!
[16:14] <akgraner> I can't right this second trying to get UWN wrapped up before this afternoon.  Can we go over it tomorrow - or later once UWN is out if you are still online and available?
[16:15] <NRWlion> how long will you need to wrap the UWN?
[16:15] <akgraner> at least another hour...pulling the stats now and it will still need to be reviewed by the team
[16:16] <NRWlion> copy that
[16:16] <NRWlion> i will place myself in front of TV now
[16:16] <NRWlion> but i can take my ipad with me to be available
[16:16] <NRWlion> ;)
[16:19] <akgraner> great - thank you
[16:19] <akgraner> will ping you on IRC once I am finished
[17:24] <NRWlion> reporting back
[17:25] <akgraner> NRWlion, ok :-)
[17:25] <akgraner> waiting on a review of UWN now we've got all the information in there
[17:25] <akgraner> so what's up - I saw your comments on the spreadsheet - all of them good points
[17:26] <akgraner> that list is in no particular order
[17:26] <NRWlion> just wanted to give you the opportunity to ask questions
[17:26] <akgraner> and while we would like to prevent burnout we have to acknowledge that right now we have an undercurrent of frustration and burnout in the community
[17:26] <NRWlion> akgraner: as my english isnt the best one i would guarantee to be clear ;)
[17:27] <akgraner> ahh I understood - your English is awesome!
[17:28] <NRWlion> do my comments fit ? i mean are they helpful for you guys to work on?
[17:28] <akgraner> We need to move things around some and put them in a better order - you have a lot of amazing insight on this..
[17:28] <akgraner> NRWlion, they are great!
[17:29] <akgraner> feel free to add any comments you think of - between now and UDS we are trying to get as much information gathered and some put somewhere so we can emerge from UDS with a solid plan for the -P (Ubuntu 12.04 LTS) cycle
[17:31] <NRWlion> akgraner: my problem is, i need to be pointed to things you guys need my "expertise" on ;)
[17:32] <NRWlion> akgraner: anything else you want my opinion on?
[17:33] <akgraner> NRWlion, well other than the spreadsheet the other resources are listed in my blog post and I think on the wiki - but I have to double check that though.
[17:34] <NRWlion> akgraner: feel free to drop me a line on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if you need me
[17:34] <akgraner> will do
[17:34]  * akgraner is thinking
[17:35] <akgraner> NRWlion, do you feel comfortable re-arranging the skill set list to some logical order
[17:35] <NRWlion> akgraner: which one?
[17:36] <akgraner> how about the spread sheet
[17:37] <akgraner> and we'll leave the document as is - a place to add brainstorming thoughts to the list
[17:39] <Cheesehead> What's the link to that spreadsheet? I don't see it among my notes...
[17:40] <akgraner> Cheesehead, that's b/c I just added it :)
[17:40] <akgraner> one second
[17:40] <akgraner> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtKZelXU8Y2LdHluVk1BSXlPMDdfT3lVUEZhS211QUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
[17:40] <Cheesehead> akgraner: Thank you!
[17:41] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: i felt free to put some input of my own into it as my studies are containing a major subject in leadership
[17:41] <akgraner> Cheesehead, you're welcome
[17:41] <NRWlion> ;)
[17:41] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: Thank you for adding!
[17:41] <akgraner> I wanted a place where people could add resource links to the various skill sets listed on the document
[17:42] <akgraner> NRWlion, has some great feedback and I believe is going to put the list via the spreadsheet into a logical order of sorts
[17:42] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: dont thank me before reading my comments ;)
[17:42] <NRWlion> maybe you disagree with me ;)
[17:42] <akgraner> and we'll keep the document for ad hoc brainstorming  - as people think of more skills etc
[17:45] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: My preferred conflict-resolution method involves beverages, pizza, and karaoke. If I disagree, is that method of resoultion okay?
[17:45] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: sorry i dont get you atm?
[17:48] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: what do you mean ?
[17:48]  * Cheesehead is looking over the spreadsheet comments
[17:48]  * NRWlion is a little confused about the beverages thing
[17:49] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: Sorry I said it poorly. I meant to say that disagreements are not a problem
[17:50] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: so what is it then?
[17:50] <akgraner> Cheesehead, I think what NRWlion means is they can be...if not handled correctly
[17:51] <Cheesehead> akgraner: A great summation. Agreed.
[17:51]  * Cheesehead is still catching back up from the weekend activities.
[17:52] <NRWlion> sorry folks but i am still not able to get the point ... and that annoyes me
[17:52] <NRWlion> :D
[17:52]  * Cheesehead is crafting a clearer version...one moment please
[17:53] <akgraner> NRWlion, don't be annoyed...I am sorry if I put an incorrect summation of your point here...
[17:54] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: In the past I have been in lots of groups and on lots of teams. There were people I disagreed with. Usually, we would sit down and have a pizza and beer (beverage) and figure out the problem. We *always* get the problem resolved...
[17:54] <NRWlion> akgraner: dont be ... it simply "annoyes" me not to know with point of my comments your guys are talking about ;)
[17:54] <Cheesehead> ...So I do not forsee any disagreement we cannot work out pretty quickly.
[17:55] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: the point is, that a good leader needs to prevent and incude possible disagreements of his / her co-workers
[17:55] <Cheesehead> An excellent point. Agreed.
[17:56] <akgraner> NRWlion totally agree with you there
[17:56] <NRWlion> and to prevent those disagreements he needs to establish a plan of action
[17:56] <NRWlion> this plan of action needs to fit into the specialities of the team members
[17:56] <akgraner> I think you can't possible plan for everything but being able to look at any given situation from as many points as possible helps
[17:57] <NRWlion> and because you can not know everyones speciality i recommend to have a kind of assessment centre to filter the ones who fit and those who dont
[17:57] <akgraner> NRWlion, sometimes you won't know what those specialties are in the beginning...and the community and community teams are very fluid and undulating in the way people's contributions work...
[17:58] <Cheesehead> Part of recruiting (or orientation) is to figure out what skills and resources people want to contribute.
[17:58] <NRWlion> akgraner: agreed on your point BUT, if you try to establish a transparent plan of action (in this term: establish a transparent way to have the possible teammembers a look on what is needed
[17:59] <akgraner> NRWlion, I think we have to operate in the community as there *is* a place for everyone  - we just have to try to find all those places (or as many as possible) - I think that's called setting the expectations
[17:59] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: that is why i sort a recommend this assessment centre which gives you a proper way on the qualifications
[17:59] <akgraner> we can't tell people what they should think but we can set expectations etc
[17:59] <NRWlion> akgraner: now you got my point *happy*
[18:00] <NRWlion> have you guys ever heard about assessment centres?
[18:00] <Cheesehead> Perhaps not by that name.
[18:00] <Cheesehead> Many concepts have multiple names.
[18:01] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: hang on, maybe i have some online literature about it
[18:01] <akgraner> nope  - but maybe like Cheesehead said there might be another name for it
[18:02] <NRWlion> http://www.psychometric-success.com/assessment-centers/acfaq-what-is.htm
[18:02] <NRWlion> have a read on this link i posted
[18:02] <NRWlion> maybe this clears some of your questions
[18:03]  * Cheesehead is reading...
[18:03] <akgraner> ditto
[18:05] <Cheesehead> I've seem them variously called intake assessments, orientation questionaires, and a few other names.
[18:05] <Cheesehead> I do informal interviewing to get that information.
[18:06] <akgraner> yep- I don't think we would get far in the community with people being assets formally
[18:06] <Cheesehead> One key to new team-members is gaining trust before asking them a bunch of questions. That's why use informal interviweing. The give-and-take and personal relationship builds the trust.
[18:06] <akgraner> I know I would probably not like the idea of that
[18:07] <Cheesehead> akgraner: It could be sold in much frendlier terms...
[18:07] <akgraner> Cheesehead, nods - NRWlion however I think that leaders should know about how to do this informally
[18:07] <akgraner> we all do it...
[18:07] <NRWlion> akgraner: agreed
[18:07] <akgraner> some just better than others
[18:07] <akgraner> I like the resource/reference though
[18:07]  * NRWlion likes the productive environment between akgraner and Cheesehead and himself
[18:08]  * Cheesehead too
[18:08] <akgraner> thanks me too - but everyone in here works like this - just not everyone is in front of IRC at the same times...
[18:10] <NRWlion> akgraner: i am simply happy to have found a team to contribute as an expert after my past here in this community wasnt the best one ... you remember my story, dont you?
[18:10] <NRWlion> that is why i wrote this
[18:10] <Cheesehead> Some kind of intake (including orientation, skill assessment, etc) to new members is definitely part of successful recruiting. Else the new member just walks away bored.
[18:10] <akgraner> I do :-) and thank you for your feedback
[18:11] <akgraner> we'll just have to work it out together...and I think this group should be able to demonstrate that
[18:11] <NRWlion> akgraner: as i am quite busy at the moment could you fill in Cheesehead?
[18:12]  * Cheesehead sees his name and is puzzled. Fill in?
[18:12]  * Cheesehead scrolls back to see what he missed...
[18:12] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: it isnt mentioned in here
[18:13] <NRWlion> the story akgraner and I talked about is back in 2010
[18:13] <NRWlion> and early 2011
[18:14]  * Cheesehead realizes he has been fooled by a wrapped line.
[18:14] <NRWlion> ???
[18:15] <Cheesehead> It was "Fill in X", not "Fill in, X". I'm the recipient, not the participant.
[18:15] <akgraner> he guys brb - need to be afk for a few
[18:15] <Cheesehead> Goodness. What I wrote confused *me*
[18:16] <akgraner> thanks NRWlion and I am glad this team is working out better for you...
[18:16]  * Cheesehead uses a time machine to go back 5 minutes in time and do it all over properly.
[18:17] <akgraner> Cheesehead, share the time machine I'm also in need of one :-)  bbiab...
[18:17] <NRWlion> akgraner: i will change my identity to get rid of the bad memories
[18:18] <Cheesehead> SilverLion is a great name.
[18:18] <SilverLion> :D
[18:20] <SilverLion> starting to write my profiles etc new
[18:21] <SilverLion> Cheesehead: to get to know me better: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nrwlion-testimonials
[18:23] <Cheesehead> My wiki page is incomplete...I plan to apply in perhaps the spring. But some other stuff is at https://plus.google.com/116428448573403038184
[18:25] <Cheesehead> Oh, something came up. Must go...
[18:25]  * Cheesehead departs for a couple hours
[18:25] <SilverLion> Cheesehead: look for Jens Leineweber on G+ and you will find me ;)
[18:39] <NRWlion> re
[19:21] <NRWlion> aloha i am back after my internet connection crashed ;)
[19:52] <NRWlion> anybody there?
[19:54] <YoBoY> nop
[19:54] <YoBoY> :D
[19:56] <NRWlion> hey yoboy how is everything?
[19:56] <YoBoY> 42
[19:57] <YoBoY> well, fine I think
[19:59] <NRWlion> ;)
[20:03] <akgraner> Thought I'd share with you all - this just ended up in my twitter feed - 12 Most Effective Habits of “Social People” - http://12most.com/2011/08/17/12-effective-habits-social-people-2/
[20:06] <NRWlion> akgraner: while i am working to update my main desktop to the "new" stable lubuntu I will write down some thoughts about leadership ... but attention these are my personal opinion and not founded with resources to depend on
[20:06] <NRWlion> :D
[20:07] <akgraner> no worries :-) we all have thoughts on Leadership :-)
[20:08] <akgraner> Thank you!
[20:10] <NRWlion> akgraner: here is one more link for you to read (went through my university stuff and found it)
[20:11] <NRWlion> http://ezinearticles.com/?Whats-It-Takes-To-Be-A-Leader&id=709149
[20:21] <NRWlion> akgraner: need your help
[20:21] <NRWlion> ;)
[20:22] <akgraner> what's up...just published UWN and I have to get one email out....it will be an hour or so before I have some free time
[20:22] <akgraner> but happy to ping you when I am finished - it's a good article...
[20:23] <NRWlion> akgraner: just a simple question: I am asked to apply for ubuntu beginners team and would like to hear your opinion ... you know me a bit now and as we are working together that productively I would love to have a testimonial from you
[20:25] <akgraner> I think you have a lot to offer...I can give a testimonial if you'd like - which area of the BT are you applying for?  Or just overall membership - not sure how it's organized these days
[20:25] <akgraner> NRWlion, where do I need to send the testimonial too?
[20:25] <NRWlion> hang on a sec
[20:26] <NRWlion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nrwlion-testimonials << there would be lovely
[20:26] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: ping!
[20:29] <bkerensa> akgraner: <c_smith> +and that we're in the weekly newsletter is awesome! :D
[20:30] <bkerensa> :D
[20:30] <NRWlion> who is "we" bkerensa
[20:30] <bkerensa> Ubuntu Oregon LoCo
[20:31] <NRWlion> bkerensa: kk
[21:08] <NRWlion> yeah ^^ my mentor at ubt just approved my application for Ubuntu Beginners Team
[21:08] <NRWlion> :D
[21:20] <akgraner> sweet - congratulations
[21:20] <NRWlion> akgraner: that is why i need your support for ;)
[21:21] <NRWlion> akgraner: if you have the time (i know you are busy as hell ;) ) i would appreciate it if you could give me a testimonial and talk to the s-fox (my mentor) about our co-op
[21:22] <akgraner> sure - I'll add it to my list - if you don't see anything on your wiki (by 7am EST - my time) then I'll get it after noon my time tomorrow :-)
[21:33] <NRWlion> hey mentor s-fox ;)
[21:34] <NRWlion> akgraner: pls meet the s-fox (my mentor at UBT)
[21:34] <s-fox> Hello.
[21:34] <akgraner> hi s-fox!
[21:34] <akgraner> I read your blog often - thanks for all the interviews btw -)
[21:34] <akgraner> :-)
[21:35] <s-fox> I suppose I should also come in here to find out what this channel is for, though NRWlion  is the main reason I am currently here :)
[21:35]  * NRWlion is flattered ^^
[21:35] <akgraner> great
[21:35] <NRWlion> akgraner: i talk to s-fox about my contribution and mentioned that you would be the perfect person to ask about my work here at the leadership team
[21:35] <s-fox> The forum council got DarkwingDuck's email, I would like to hear more
[21:36] <akgraner> great  - let me get you the link to the wiki where posts about the group have been added
[21:37] <akgraner> s-fox, will you be online and in IRC for a while longer I have to finish an email right quick
[21:37] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Links
[21:37] <s-fox> Okay,until 23:00 UTC I shall be online
[21:39]  * NRWlion stays online that long if needed
[21:40] <s-fox> NRWlion: I said I would add my support ;) I know the time is bad for you
[21:41] <NRWlion> s-fox i am re-installing my main desktop
[21:44] <akgraner> s-fox - NRWlion I'll add a testimonial  - s-fox feel free to join in on the efforts of the leadership team....
[21:44] <akgraner> we need to update the forums thread and add more information it it
[21:44] <akgraner> to it even...
[21:45] <NRWlion> akgraner: which side did you add the testimonial on? i dont see it in my wiki
[21:45] <akgraner> I haven't yet
[21:45] <NRWlion> ah ^^ ok
[21:45] <akgraner> I am in the middle of something
[21:46] <NRWlion> i misinterpreted the I'll into a I've
[21:46] <NRWlion> :D
[21:46] <akgraner> no worries
[21:46] <s-fox> akgraner: we created the sub forum at DarkwingDuck 's request, no threads have been created in it.  http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=411
[21:46] <akgraner> s-fox yep I just realized that today :-(
[21:47] <akgraner> I'll add that to my to do list and get it updated...
[21:48] <akgraner> then find someone to help keep it updated...:-)  Just a busy time for everyone right now with 11.10 about to be released...
[21:49] <s-fox> akgraner:  Do you have a forums account?
[21:49] <NRWlion> s-fox need help with the ubuntu forums as well :(
[21:49] <NRWlion> my passwort and email isnt recognized
[21:49] <s-fox> I will have a look NRWlion
[21:49] <NRWlion> thx man
[21:51] <akgraner> s-fox yep I post UWN :-)
[21:52] <s-fox> NRWlion:  Taken care of.
[21:53] <s-fox> akgraner:  So, what can the forum council help the ubuntu leadership project with?
[21:53] <NRWlion> kk thx
[21:56] <akgraner> DarkwingDuck, or Cheesehead can you assist s-fox please it's going to be a few minutes before I can answer...
[22:03]  * Cheesehead returns
[22:03] <Cheesehead> Scrolling back...
[22:05] <Cheesehead> Hello, s-fox. Thanks for coming by.
[22:07] <Cheesehead> Seems like my forum account works properly.
[22:09] <Cheesehead> s-fox: The forum council can help us in a few ways. First, by providing feedback.
[22:09] <s-fox> On what exactly do you want feedback on?
[22:10] <Cheesehead> Great question - trying to say it just right...one moment please...
[22:11] <Cheesehead> Ack. So much to say, and a few distractions here...
[22:12] <NRWlion> am i needed here ?
[22:12] <NRWlion> otherwise i would love to see my pillow ;)
[22:13] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: Your input is always welcome, but I undersand the call of the night very well. You're busy - get some rest.
[22:13] <NRWlion> s-fox you need my for now? or are we clear about my application?
[22:14] <NRWlion> @ Cheesehead: s-fox is my mentor for ubuntu-beginners-team and working on my application for membership
[22:15] <s-fox> Cheesehead:  I am here for 2 reasons.
[22:16] <s-fox> First to hear from akgraner about how NRWlion  has been helping this project and second, to find out how the forum council can assist.
[22:16] <Cheesehead> I can talk the second reason.
[22:16] <Cheesehead> The forum community, from my outsider persective, seems cohesive and consistent.
[22:16] <Cheesehead> Good moderation.
[22:17] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: you can talk the first reason too ^^ you have seen my comments and stuff didnt you?
[22:17] <NRWlion> :D
[22:18]  * Cheesehead laughs
[22:18] <Cheesehead> I certainly can.
[22:18] <Cheesehead> I have about 10 minutes before I must leave this location, so to business!
[22:19] <Cheesehead> Does the forum council, or leaders in the forums community, talk much about good leaders or leadership?
[22:19] <NRWlion> well then go for it ^^
[22:21] <s-fox> To an extent, yes Cheesehead .
[22:22] <s-fox> The forum moderators and administrators often talk about how to best handle some situations that occur.
[22:22] <s-fox> Good leadership falls under good advice
[22:23] <Cheesehead> It shows. Whenever I see moderation (rarely), it's consistent and effective, no matter who the mod is.
[22:24]  * Cheesehead is suddenly deluged by a couple unexpected events
[22:24] <Cheesehead> My apologies, I must step out for a couple hours again.
[22:25] <Cheesehead> Happy to pick this up again at your convenience.
[22:25] <s-fox> Some moderators wait for input from others before acting
[22:25] <s-fox> I am likely to be gone by the time you return. I will continue to wait for akgraner
[22:25] <Cheesehead> We hope to share the best practices and lessons learned from across the community. I suspect the forums have a lot of both to share.
[22:26] <akgraner> s-fox - I am tied up for a while longer can we just chat tomorrow?  Rather you have to wait for me - I'll add to NRWlion wiki page as well
[22:27]  * Cheesehead departs
[22:27] <s-fox> When do you propose?
[22:29] <akgraner> I'll be gone from 1100 UTC until 1600 UTC
[22:30] <akgraner> so anytime between 1600 UTC  - 1900 UTC then 2100  UTC- forward
[22:30] <NRWlion> folks i will be online from 2000 UTC till 22 UTC because i have two 24 hr shifts coming up this week
[22:31] <s-fox> 2200 UTC is when I expect to be available akgraner .
[22:31] <akgraner> great  - then let's shoot for that then
[22:32] <akgraner> I'll add it to my calendar - thanks s-fox...
[22:33] <s-fox> Goodbye.