[00:05] <april> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[00:05] <april> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[00:05] <april> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[00:05] <april> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[00:05] <april> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[01:06] <change> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[01:06] <change> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[01:06] <change> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[01:06] <change> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[01:06] <change> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[01:33] <raspimate_> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[01:33] <raspimate_> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[01:33] <raspimate_> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[02:29] <Phex> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[02:29] <Phex> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[02:57] <jack3> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[02:57] <jack3> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[02:57] <jack3> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[03:16] <noteness> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[03:16] <noteness> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[03:17] <noteness> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[04:39] <Selavi17> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[04:39] <Selavi17> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[04:39] <Selavi17> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[05:58] <ManyRaptors8> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
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[05:58] <ManyRaptors8> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[09:39] <nyuszika7h14> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[09:39] <nyuszika7h14> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[09:39] <nyuszika7h14> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[09:42] <bathtub_shark17> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[09:42] <bathtub_shark17> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[09:42] <bathtub_shark17> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[10:24] <huhlig7> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[10:24] <huhlig7> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[10:24] <huhlig7> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[11:46] <mikedlr24> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[11:46] <mikedlr24> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[11:46] <mikedlr24> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[11:46] <mikedlr24> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[11:48] <ForexTrader> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[11:48] <ForexTrader> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[11:48] <ForexTrader> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[11:49] <ForexTrader> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[11:57] <sulvone19> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[11:57] <sulvone19> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[11:57] <sulvone19> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[11:57] <sulvone19> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[11:58] <Colti3> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[11:58] <Colti3> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[11:58] <Colti3> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[11:58] <Colti3> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[12:24] <mattcode> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[12:24] <mattcode> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
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[12:24] <mattcode> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[12:34] <fkz> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[12:34] <fkz> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[12:34] <fkz> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[12:34] <fkz> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[12:34] <K0HAX1> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[12:34] <K0HAX1> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[12:34] <K0HAX1> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[12:34] <K0HAX1> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[15:08] <Loki18> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[15:09] <Loki18> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[15:09] <Loki18> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[15:09] <Loki18> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[15:22] <davidebeatrici9> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[15:22] <davidebeatrici9> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[15:22] <davidebeatrici9> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[15:22] <davidebeatrici9> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[15:29] <bladernr22> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[15:29] <bladernr22> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[15:29] <bladernr22> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[15:29] <bladernr22> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[15:32] <zaberdampfer> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[15:32] <zaberdampfer> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[15:42] <urdh7> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[15:42] <urdh7> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[15:42] <urdh7> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[15:42] <urdh7> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[15:51] <idn17> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[15:51] <idn17> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[15:51] <idn17> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[15:52] <idn17> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[16:26] <Pixelz10> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[16:26] <Pixelz10> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[16:26] <Pixelz10> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[16:26] <Pixelz10> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[16:31] <qassim3> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[16:31] <qassim3> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[16:31] <qassim3> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[16:31] <qassim3> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[16:43] <patate27> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[16:43] <patate27> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[16:43] <patate27> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[16:44] <patate27> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[17:39] <oso96_200029> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[17:39] <oso96_200029> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[17:39] <oso96_200029> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[17:39] <oso96_200029> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[17:39] <oso96_200029> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[17:45] <Skunky27> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.efnet.org #LRH /!\
[17:45] <Skunky27> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[17:45] <Skunky27> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[17:45] <Skunky27> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[18:15] <Guest90125> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:15] <Guest90125> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:15] <Guest90125> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[18:27] <MrElendig26> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:27] <MrElendig26> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:27] <MrElendig26> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[18:27] <MrElendig26> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[18:33] <moved> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:33] <moved> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:33] <moved> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[18:34] <moved> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[18:35] <deetwelve27> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:35] <deetwelve27> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:35] <deetwelve27> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[18:43] <lutoma2> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:43] <lutoma2> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:43] <lutoma2> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[18:43] <lutoma2> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[18:45] <shreyansh_k16> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:45] <shreyansh_k16> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:45] <shreyansh_k16> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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[18:46] <zopsi> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[18:46] <zopsi> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[18:46] <zopsi> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[18:46] <zopsi> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[18:46] <zopsi> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[18:46] <zopsi> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[19:00] <Lildirt> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[19:00] <Lildirt> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[19:00] <Lildirt> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[19:00] <Lildirt> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[19:00] <Lildirt> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[19:00] <Lildirt> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[19:08] <macky26> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[19:08] <macky26> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[19:08] <macky26> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[19:08] <macky26> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[19:08] <macky26> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[19:08] <macky26> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[19:09] <RustyJ23> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[19:09] <RustyJ23> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[19:09] <RustyJ23> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[19:10] <RustyJ23> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[19:10] <RustyJ23> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[19:10] <RustyJ23> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[19:14] <Shrooms23> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[19:14] <Shrooms23> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[19:14] <Shrooms23> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[19:14] <Shrooms23> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[19:14] <Shrooms23> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[19:14] <Shrooms23> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[19:49] <nate10> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[19:49] <nate10> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[19:49] <nate10> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[19:49] <nate10> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[19:49] <nate10> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[19:49] <nate10> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[20:48] <kiera10> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[20:48] <kiera10> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[20:56] <DataComputist> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[20:56] <DataComputist> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[20:56] <DataComputist> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[20:56] <DataComputist> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[20:56] <DataComputist> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[20:56] <DataComputist> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[21:06] <usrX> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[21:06] <usrX> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[21:06] <usrX> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[21:06] <usrX> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[21:06] <usrX> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[21:15] <__idiot__> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[21:15] <__idiot__> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[21:15] <__idiot__> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[21:15] <__idiot__> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[21:15] <__idiot__> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[21:15] <__idiot__> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[22:05] <diz10> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[22:05] <diz10> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[22:05] <diz10> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[22:05] <diz10> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[22:05] <diz10> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[22:05] <diz10> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[22:58] <Erynnn28> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[22:58] <Erynnn28> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[22:58] <Erynnn28> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[22:58] <Erynnn28> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[22:58] <Erynnn28> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[22:58] <Erynnn28> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[23:15] <tharkun10> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[23:15] <tharkun10> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[23:15] <tharkun10> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[23:15] <tharkun10> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[23:15] <tharkun10> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[23:15] <tharkun10> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[23:22] <bathtub_shark13> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[23:22] <bathtub_shark13> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[23:23] <bathtub_shark13> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[23:23] <bathtub_shark13> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[23:23] <bathtub_shark13> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[23:23] <bathtub_shark13> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
[23:52] <Waldo4> /!\ ATTN: This channel has moved to irc.freenode.net ##hamradio /!\
[23:52] <Waldo4> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[23:52] <Waldo4> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
[23:52] <Waldo4> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
[23:52] <Waldo4> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
[23:52] <Waldo4> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/


[21:32] <sadmac> Keybuk: did you get that new set of async stuff?
[21:32] <Keybuk> not yet
[21:32] <Keybuk> still travelling
[21:33] <sadmac> oh. where are you?
[21:34] <Keybuk> brussels
[21:34] <Keybuk> on the way to berlin
[21:35] <sadmac> brussels. good town. try their sprouts


[01:57] <ubptgbot> <Paulo pandryx> Hello, … How activate to desktop ubuntu?
[02:41] <ubptgbot> <Paulo pandryx> Show do I run ubuntu desktop onde te TV?
[05:05] <ubptgbot> rahidul_islam was added by: rahidul_islam
 I have a android 4.2.2 (jelly bean) with 512 RAM. Can I install ubuntu touch in this device??
 if its not in the supported device list found on  … https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/ … then it will have to be ported, and for that you will need at least kernel version 3.4
 @rahidul_islam [I have a android 4.2.2 (jelly bean) with 512 RAM. Can I install ubuntu touch in …], you should be more spesific like whats your phone model
 anyway Android 4.2.2 and 512 MB RAM is below minimal specs for us for a port to exist
[06:52] <ubptgbot> Esi Beshkar was added by: Esi Beshkar
[06:59] <ubptgbot> lunatic066 was added by: lunatic066
[07:47] <ubptgbot> Eduardo Gonzalez was added by: Eduardo Gonzalez
 Who know whats Volla's phone screen size in pixels?
 @Kaizennn [Who know whats Volla's phone screen size in pixels?], 2340x1080
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/y6fZ8jfN.qt
 @NotKit [2340x1080], Thanks!
 Hello everybody) I wanted to talk about a strange thing When you lock the screen, YouTube usually starts to stutter, but if you put the desktop mode in UT Tweak, then the stuttering disappears .... It's a strange pattern. I hope this helps you somehow
[09:58] <ubptgbot> mario serra was added by: mario serra
[10:34] <ubptgbot> k124589 was added by: k124589
[11:21] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> I was todays years old when I found out that I can disable the sound of the camera...
[11:21] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> The icon was just a placeholder so I didn't know it was there
[11:36] <ubptgbot> deirdre antoinette was added by: deirdre antoinette
 @Boris Mihailov [The icon was just a placeholder so I didn't know it was there], We need a manual 😀
[11:49] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> @Stereofont [We need a manual 😀], Nah, it's much more fun to explore like this
 @Shakendo [if its not in the supported device list found on  … https://devices.ubuntu-touch. …], I have karnel 3.4.5
[12:54] <ubptgbot> Tigano_M was added by: Tigano_M
 @Boris Mihailov [The icon was just a placeholder so I didn't know it was there], https://gitlab.com/ubports/apps/camera-app/-/issues/148
[13:06] <gitbot> Apps issue 148 in camera-app "sound has got no default on brand new installed phone" [Rc, Opened]
 @Mister_Tails121 [Hello everybody) I wanted to talk about a strange thing When you lock the screen …], apps are suspended when in staged mode … in desktop mode, all apps run in the background even locked screen just like on desktops
[14:41] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> @Mister_Tails121 [Hello everybody) I wanted to talk about a strange thing When you lock the screen …], For me it stutters only when on WiFi and locked phone, when on 4g (I have unlimited data for streaming services) I don't have the issue.
[15:29] <ubptgbot> Alex Overton was added by: Alex Overton
[16:46] <ubptgbot> sudo_jappie was added by: sudo_jappie
[17:13] <ubptgbot> kiinjas was added by: kiinjas
[17:13] <ubptgbot> FaiqRstmli was added by: FaiqRstmli
 It's almost time for my talk, Brickless Battery Saving with Ubuntu Touch (1730 UTC)! Come on over and learn how Ubuntu Touch and other mobile operating systems save battery today. … Why not watch a talk about Flatpak while you wait? That's what's on now! … Be there or be square! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp6Q6SQUq_Q
[17:19] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> (y)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp6Q6SQUq_Q
 ah Dalton was faster
[17:54] <luna_> https://ubports.com/foundation/sponsors#pine64
[17:54] <luna_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp6Q6SQUq_Q
 @Mister_Tails121 [Hello everybody) I wanted to talk about a strange thing When you lock the screen …], Youtube is a webapp, it doesn't make use of the mediahub; a native youtube app would solve it, but that's a wip
 @universalsuperbox Excellent Brickless Battery Talk Dalton. Well done! Respect!
 @Fuseteam [Youtube is a webapp, it doesn't make use of the mediahub; a native youtube app w …], When is the launch of the native client planned?
 @Mister_Tails121 [When is the launch of the native client planned?], No ETA so far, i'm sure it will be hard to miss
[18:51] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> A small question, is there a way to force certain applications to be portrait only / landscape only from users perspective, not as dev?
 Well, given my situation, I will most likely skip 😅😅😅. …  Damn .... I like UT and want to completely switch to it (especially considering that there will be a native YouTube client soon). But I need to get the Mega File Synchronization client on UT somewhere on it .... I think what to do now .... I just have all the important f
[18:52] <ubptgbot> iles there and it will be useful to me (especially considering that I only have 7-6 gigabytes memory on the media on the phone) .... Can anyone know if there is a Mega File Sync (Mega Cloud Drive) client on UT?
 @Boris Mihailov [A small question, is there a way to force certain applications to be portrait on …], A small question, is there a way to force certain applications to be portrait only / landscape only from users perspective, not as dev?
 @Boris Mihailov [A small question, is there a way to force certain applications to be portrait on …], think you can edit the .desktop file for it thats about the only way i can think
 @Boris Mihailov [A small question, is there a way to force certain applications to be portrait on …], Just flip the screen probably ...
[18:54] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> @PiecerEdd [think you can edit the .desktop file for it thats about the only way i can think], Huh, i'll check into that.
[18:54] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> @Mister_Tails121 [Just flip the screen probably ...], Not the point
 @PiecerEdd [think you can edit the .desktop file for it thats about the only way i can think], I do not think that in the desktop file you can configure this
 @Boris Mihailov [A small question, is there a way to force certain applications to be portrait on …], There is no way to do that for certain apps atm
 @Mister_Tails121 [Well, given my situation, I will most likely skip 😅😅😅. …  Damn .... I like UT …], There's also a wip mega client same deal :p
 @Fuseteam [There's also a wip mega client same deal :p], It looks like it won't be out soon
 @Mister_Tails121 [I do not think that in the desktop file you can configure this], Might be possible yeah
 @Mister_Tails121 [It looks like it won't be out soon], Native client development for proprietary services take time
 Especially since its done by volunteers
 Well, yes, I probably agree with that
 does this not still work?
 X-Ubuntu-Supported-Orientations=portrait
 also on the youtube thing, didnt there used to be an invidious native client? 😆 or was that a webapp too
 but the youtube webapp isnt too bad
 @PiecerEdd [also on the youtube thing, didnt there used to be an invidious native client? 😆 …], It was a webapp like
 ahh
 Probably was a webapp not sure
 (I apologize in advance for the expressions) In general, all webappb on UT suck ... and very much
 And yeah it works fine
 @Mister_Tails121 [(I apologize in advance for the expressions) In general, all webappb on UT suck …], Eeeh if the webapp sucks the mobile website sucks tbf
 @PiecerEdd [X-Ubuntu-Supported-Orientations=portrait], yes, it works, but it's more "for devs" as getting the `.desktop` file changed is not necessarily as obvious as it might seem
 The webapp is just a wrapper for a website after all
[19:05] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> @dohbee [yes, it works, but it's more "for devs" as getting the .desktop file changed is …], But adding it as a row to the desktop app should do the job?
 @Mister_Tails121 [(I apologize in advance for the expressions) In general, all webappb on UT suck …], As someone who used to use a FirefoxOS phone.. im quite happy with webapps 😆 but yeah, native apps are obviously better, but the webapps do help 'bridge the gap' especially for things that don't necessarily need a 'real' native app
 @Fuseteam [The webapp is just a wrapper for a website after all], No, I'm not in the sense that they either have bugs (like YouTube in old updates that ignored touches) or just ... very much ... B R A K E S
 there are so many apps on Android that are a complete waste of space, because the web version of the service works just fine and doesnt take up stupid amounts of space/spy on you constantly etc
 @Boris Mihailov [But adding it as a row to the desktop app should do the job?], yes. but as i said, getting that to stick is not obvious, and it will obviously be broken after any update to the app
 @PiecerEdd [As someone who used to use a FirefoxOS phone.. im quite happy with webapps 😆 bu …], Ooooo FirefoxOS ..... I did not use them (alas, I did not receive a phone with support), but according to reviews, this is still a crap
 firefox OS was great
 my phone cost me like £35 and it all ran perfectly, and the OS had some fairly interesting design/UI
[19:09] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> @dohbee [yes. but as i said, getting that to stick is not obvious, and it will obviously …], Well at first I need it for some of the webber shortcuts, so no updating them anytime soon. … Does it matter the order for this option?
 @PiecerEdd [there are so many apps on Android that are a complete waste of space, because th …], And on UT it is no longer possible to spy normally in view of an outdated web engine that has to be masked, if only at least authentification in Google would work, for example
 imgur is the oone that annoys me... their mobile website is completely gimped so youre forced to use the real app, for god knows what reason
 like all i wanna do is upload a photo and share it, why do i need a 24mb app for that
 (Photo, 606x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/i5GagDqO.png Heh .... The funny thing is that sites and operators define the system as Linux and think that the browser is not QT but Chrome .... Good disguise
 Qt use chromium
 @Boris Mihailov [Well at first I need it for some of the webber shortcuts, so no updating them an …], the order of entries in the file doesn't matter, no.
 @mimecar [Qt use chromium], Yeah ... And we remember 1000 sites that directly say that this browser is no longer suitable and we need to find a better one🌚
 btw Chromium 77 is not so old now
 just 2019, so blame websites
 (and if Chromium 77 is old, you didn't live with Gecko 33 on Sailfish, people are never satisfied it seems :)
 😆 gotta love that sailfish browser
 its sad really, sailfish OS is a genuinely awesome system, but that browser of theirs lets it down so bad
 i just ended up running firefox in alien dalvik... gave much better performance and didnt crap out on half the sites
 @PiecerEdd [😆 gotta love that sailfish browser], it's getting updated now though
 i believe so yeah
 theres been a version jump on a few of the recent sailfish OS updates hasnt there
 i know the latest one did and i think the one before that one did too?
 @Mister_Tails121 [No, I'm not in the sense that they either have bugs (like YouTube in old updates …], They break because the website breaks, its really just a portal to the website; its just the website your interfacing with
[19:49] <ubptgbot> Dieter Zakel was added by: Dieter Zakel
[19:50] <ubptgbot> <Dieter Zakel> Ladies and Gentlemen: … I bought a Xaomi Redmi 7 for Ubuntu Touch … I have got the instructions what to do from your link … I should download GenomBuntu from the git repo … But there is no GenomBuntu … Is this an old ReadMe file? … And the anonfiles.com download links are dead by the way. So I am stuck. … Has someone an idea or a rec
[19:50] <ubptgbot> ent howto file? … Thank you very much!
 You may find usefull tips in https://t.me/WelcomePlus
 @Dieter Zakel [Ladies and Gentlemen: … I bought a Xaomi Redmi 7 for Ubuntu Touch … I have got the i …], I tried Anon download links & it appears to work. I copied the link & pasted into browser and was prompted to download the files. Anon site looks horribly dodgy, so good luck with using it. Have you tried contacting the developer? (If yo
[21:31] <ubptgbot> u still have trouble)
[23:27] <ubptgbot> SandorAnda was added by: SandorAnda


[01:45] <micahg> teward: yes
[01:46] <micahg> but probably not before Sunday night
[01:46] <teward> i don't plan on making any diffs until at least sunday
[01:47] <teward> so that's not a problem :)
[08:59] <alexandercogneau> \


 https://www.facebook.com/events/231398427253855/
 @KMyers @Ivoriesablaze @govatent
 I loved it
 I'd totally do it again
 I used it in key West
 oh?
 oh the airbnb thing
 @govatent we just need one night
 mm that could be read wrong
 Lol
 Yea I did a single night in key West and had an entire fancy apartment to myself
 we were looking at going cheap and getting one room with 2 beds
 i'm actually busy that day, way too short notice for me, @ahoneybun
 Well I just found it
 And I'd rather tag you either way
 lol, cool, thanks man
 @Ivoriesablaze https://plus.google.com/117626911942680957406/posts/bUdY52bVdXi
 XD : https://torrentfreak.com/warner-bros-flags-website-piracy-portal-160904/
 @KMyers where's the ocarina?
 @KMyers
 One of those days I see
[16:48] <floridagram> * ahoneybun is at home
 ;(
 son of a bitch!
 I think its only in store
 i know, that's why i said that
 Mm
 Holy crap


[18:57]  * tsimonq2 waves, albeit a few mins early
[18:58] <mdeslaur> \o
[19:00] <kees> o/
[19:00]  * slangasek waves
[19:00] <mdeslaur> hi kees
[19:00] <mdeslaur> hi slangasek
[19:01] <kees> 3 ... anyone else?
[19:01] <slangasek> I understand stgraber is on vacation this week, no idea what that implies for his TB meeting attendance
[19:02] <kees> no quorum with 3. whee
[19:02] <slangasek> is 3 not quorum?
[19:03] <slangasek> I thought we've certainly been treating it as such
[19:03] <kees> oh!
[19:03] <kees> ok
[19:04] <kees> #start-meeting
[19:04] <slangasek> no-dash?
[19:04] <kees> #startmeeting
[19:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 10 19:04:35 2018 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:04] <kees> ah
[19:05] <kees> action review:
[19:05] <kees> ACTION: flexiondotorg To follow-up on-list with design review to address MATE Boutique security/consent concerns.
[19:05] <slangasek> I haven't seen anything on the list
[19:05] <mdeslaur> doesn't look like he did
[19:06] <slangasek> and he's currently off irc
[19:06] <kees> yeah
[19:06] <tsimonq2> Wimpress is his new nick.
[19:06] <slangasek> oh
[19:07] <slangasek> Wimpress: ^^ ?
[19:07] <Wimpress> o/
[19:07] <kees> ACTION: tsimonq2 to propose patches to maintenance-check regarding Lubuntu Next (done in https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimonq2/ubuntu-archive-publishing/lubuntu-next-support-cycle-adjustment/+merge/342475
[19:07] <kees> oh
[19:07] <Wimpress> This is not forgotten.
[19:07] <Wimpress> I'll try and get round to this in the next week.
[19:07] <mdeslaur> Wimpress: what's with the disguise?
[19:07] <tsimonq2> mdeslaur: #blameflocculant
[19:07] <Wimpress> Long story.
[19:07] <mdeslaur> hehe
[19:07] <Wimpress> But that ^
[19:08] <Wimpress> We've already dropped a bunch a PPA and repos from Welcome as a start on  this.
[19:08] <Wimpress> But I will post to the ML with a full proposal soon
[19:09] <mdeslaur> ack, thanks
[19:09] <kees> cool. deferred
[19:10] <slangasek> Wimpress: ok; bearing in mind that the TB's request was not that you drop the support for third-party repos necessarily, but that you disclose to the user what is happening
[19:10] <kees> tsimonq2: how about your action?
[19:10] <Wimpress> slangasek: Yes, I know. But I felt this was a good time to review what we were listing.
[19:11] <tsimonq2> kees: It's done; I'm the one who modified the agenda with the link in there. ;)
[19:12] <slangasek> yes, I reviewed and merged the change
[19:12] <slangasek> tsimonq2: have you verified that the result is correct in the archive metadata?
[19:12] <kees> oh durp
[19:12] <tsimonq2> slangasek: No; where can I do that?
[19:12] <slangasek> tsimonq2: Packages.gz
[19:13] <slangasek> tsimonq2: Supported field
[19:13] <kees> ACTION: infinity to call for confirmation of LTS status from all flavours.
[19:13] <tsimonq2> One minute then; you're free to move on to other items.
[19:13] <kees> no infinity so deferred
[19:14] <slangasek> tsimonq2: qlubuntu-default-session still shows as Supported: 3y which I think indicates it didn't have the intended result yet; you and I can iterate
[19:14] <kees> ACTION: infinity to ask maas team to prepare SRU exception policy à la CurtinUpdates
[19:14] <kees> also deferred
[19:14] <kees> agenda items...
[19:15] <kees> [slangasek] - Review of the seeded snaps policy
[19:15] <slangasek> hello
[19:15] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSeededSnaps
[19:15] <tsimonq2> slangasek: The source package is shared. That's not an accurate representation.
[19:15] <slangasek> tsimonq2: afaik supported fields are per-binary, not per-source; anyway, feel free to find one that you know should be 9m and check the result :)
[19:16] <slangasek> kees, mdeslaur: I didn't send any follow-up emails, I think the agreement last time was that TB members would review this spec in their own time and we could discuss at this meeting.  Did you have a chance to review the spec?
[19:16] <mdeslaur> I did review the spec, I have a few questions
[19:17] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Ah, so indeed, it didn't set correctly.
[19:17] <tsimonq2> #action tsimonq2 to investigate why the Lubuntu Next support time modifications are not set correctly
[19:17] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to investigate why the Lubuntu Next support time modifications are not set correctly
[19:18] <tsimonq2> Anyway, sorry, carry on.
[19:18] <slangasek> mdeslaur: excellent, I'm happy to make up answers :)
[19:19] <mdeslaur> The spec doesn't define who acts as the gatekeeper between core devs and publishing a snap directly to users
[19:19] <mdeslaur> like the way it is currently handled
[19:19] <slangasek> in the sense of archive review?
[19:20] <mdeslaur> yes. In the sense that currently a core dev can't push an update directly to users
[19:20] <slangasek> ah; so perhaps more in the sense of SRU
[19:20] <mdeslaur> without going through the sru team, etc
[19:21] <slangasek> yes; I think the design of the snap store, and the relative isolation of snaps, means we should aim to have less process around this generally,
[19:22] <slangasek> because e.g. reverts are a lot easier, and eventually should be drivable with health checks
[19:22] <slangasek> etc
[19:22] <slangasek> so at this time I wasn't aiming to dictate any gatekeeping around this, or to forklift import the SRU policy
[19:23] <kees> i only had one question: how are seeded snaps distinguished from third party snaps? given the higher policy requirements for seeded snaps, end users may only want seeded snaps
[19:24] <slangasek> mdeslaur: do you think that's ok for now, or do you think we need gatekeepers initially?
[19:24] <mdeslaur> won't there be third party seeded snaps too?
[19:25] <mdeslaur> slangasek: I personally think this makes becoming a core-dev or attempting to steal core-dev credentials much more attractive for people with bad intentions
[19:25] <slangasek> ok
[19:25] <kees> mdeslaur: seeded snap policy says everything has to be in LP (source and builds), so i think no 3rd party?
[19:26] <mdeslaur> "...to be included in an Ubuntu image, a snap should have as its publisher either the upstream..."
[19:27] <slangasek> mdeslaur: in practice, we don't gate uploads to the devel series by core-devs, after initial NEW processing; so it's a difference in window of opportunity (you can upload a hostile snap and have it instantly take effect for stable users, vs. having to upload to devel and wait and see)
[19:27] <jbicha> that's interesting for the use case of Firefox where we got mozilla building the snap
[19:27] <slangasek> mdeslaur: and in practice the store doesn't give us many layers of gatekeeping against collaborators
[19:27] <mdeslaur> slangasek: right, but the devel series is a buffer that (in theory) allows review by others, and damage can be reverted before hitting users
[19:28] <slangasek> kees: so in this case you're defining third-party as "not built on trusted infrastructure"?
[19:29] <kees> i guese, yes. "snaps installed by default we should ensure that they are built from source in the same trusted Launchpad environment in which debs are built"
[19:29] <slangasek> yes, firefox is an interesting case, and there are different requirements that are in tension.  I think we should punt on firefox in the context of this discussion
[19:31] <slangasek> (firefox snap is not seeded in 18.04 desktop, AFAIK; we have time)
[19:31] <kees> the policy (source can't disappear, built on LP) is a higher bar, so making those discoverbale seems like it'd have value to end users
[19:31] <kees> beyond that, i like the policy
[19:31] <slangasek> kees: anyway, to your question of distinguishing them, the intent is that this be surfaced as metadata in the snap store, which the store could expose to the end user over the snapd api
[19:32] <kees> perfect
[19:32] <jbicha> (yes, AFAIK firefox snap isn't proposed for inclusion in Ubuntu by default yet)
[19:32] <slangasek> I'm working with the store team on the implementation details, but yes, it's important that this be auditable and not taken on faith that a given snap is done correctly :)
[19:32] <kees> mdeslaur: are your questions/concerns addressed?
[19:32] <mdeslaur> I like the policy as it applies to snaps built in launchpad from known sources, and security support has been commited to
[19:33] <mdeslaur> I don't know how third party or upstream snaps fit into that
[19:33] <slangasek> mdeslaur: per current policy, a "third party" or "upstream" snap is fine but they still need to build the binary on LP to comply with this policy
[19:34] <mdeslaur> how the mechanism for taking control of that snap if adequate security isn't being provided?
[19:34] <mdeslaur> s/how/what's/
[19:35] <jbicha> (and the third party needs to be in a LP team approved by the DMB)
[19:36] <mdeslaur> Let's say we allow an upstream snap, built on launchpad in bionic, and upstream decides to no longer build security updates for the bionic snap once the next LTS rolls out, for example
[19:36] <slangasek> mdeslaur: today, we would try to talk to the publisher first, or the store team as necessary, to get collaborator access and publish our updates to the stable/ubuntu-XX.YY channels
[19:37] <slangasek> jbicha: that's an interesting point; I don't think it follows from the current policy as written
[19:37] <kees> slangasek, mdeslaur: sounds like security support policy needs to get fleshed out more? should that continue in email?
[19:38] <jbicha> slangasek: oh
[19:38] <slangasek> note that the snap store doesn't actually use launchpad teams; publishers / collaborators are implemented only store side and are defined in terms of assertions and keys
[19:38] <slangasek> so we can't actually enforce that every collaborator on a third-party snap is part of a DMB-approved LP team
[19:40] <kees> [action] slangasek and mdeslaur to more clearly define third party seeded snap security policy
[19:40] <meetingology> ACTION: slangasek and mdeslaur to more clearly define third party seeded snap security policy
[19:40] <kees> how's that look?
[19:41] <slangasek> if that is the action from mdeslaur's POV, sure :)
[19:41] <mdeslaur> It may be easier to get this accepted in two steps: 1- community-maintained, launchpad-built snaps, and then 2- thirty party snaps
[19:41] <kees> 20 minutes left, so let's move on for now...
[19:41] <kees> [tsimonq2] - The rationale for snapd being in the platform seed when flavors weren't polled first.
[19:42] <mdeslaur> ok
[19:42] <tsimonq2> Hi.
[19:42] <tsimonq2> I am wondering, out of curiosity, why snapd was added to the desktop-common seed without flavors being consulted: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/revision/2056
[19:42] <tsimonq2> I oppose to shipping snapd in Lubuntu by default due to some serious usability concerns that I have raised with the Snapcraft team, as well as bug 1730159 among other things.
[19:42] <tsimonq2> This isn't an issue right now, because Lubuntu doesn't pull in recommends and I've manually blacklisted it just in case, but it becomes an issue when we turn off no-follow-recommends at the beginning of next cycle.
[19:42] <tsimonq2> I would like to request the removal of snapd from desktop-common, even as recommended, because Lubuntu does not want to ship this as part of our default install, unless of course it's mandated by the Technical Board. I would also like to know why this decision was made without asking flavors, unless I am missing some historical context or something else here.
[19:43] <tsimonq2> Thanks.
[19:44] <slangasek> right
[19:45] <slangasek> so, I have certainly defended the principle recently that the desktop-common seed in particular should be subject to consensus among the desktop flavors, and should not be used to force things into the common platform over objections ;)
[19:45] <tsimonq2> You have. :)
[19:45] <slangasek> you will however note that I am the committer of that revision and are right to call out the disconnect
[19:45] <slangasek> so here's my position
[19:46] <slangasek> the fact that it's in the desktop-common seed is actually an implementation detail
[19:46] <slangasek> from the perspective of Canonical, and the Foundations Team, snapd is now part of the standard Ubuntu experience
[19:47] <slangasek> anyone who installs Ubuntu, in any of its forms, should be able to 'snap install' the same way they're able to 'apt install'
[19:47] <slangasek> in practice it's separately seeded in desktop-common and in server, but the intent is that it's part of the common platform experience
[19:47] <slangasek> this is subject to TB review, of course
[19:48] <tsimonq2> Right, and this is me bringing it to TB review. :)
[19:48] <kees> seems like snapd should be part of the per-flavor *-desktop ?
[19:48] <slangasek> but that at least gives the rationale for not consulting flavors - it was a platform-level decision
[19:48] <kees> or *-minimal, or something?
[19:49] <tsimonq2> And the "standard Ubuntu experience" is defined by Canonical, not by the Ubuntu Technical Board or another similar body? Or does this come from sabdfl?
[19:49] <slangasek> depending on the result of TB review, we can move it to a more appropriate seed(s) for clarity
[19:49] <slangasek> tsimonq2: the TB doesn't often get asked to sign off on platform changes up front
[19:50] <slangasek> I don't think the upstart->systemd move was TB-ratified, to give one example
[19:50] <tsimonq2> kees: I agree with you.
[19:50] <slangasek> but the TB is certainly the right forum for appeal
[19:50] <kees> seems like even this doesn't need to come to TB. snap availability should be a flavor-specific option, yes?
[19:51] <kees> slangasek: by "standard Ubuntu experience" do you mean "all ubuntu flavors"?
[19:51] <tsimonq2> kees: Correct, but we weren't given the choice.
[19:51] <slangasek> kees: yes
[19:51] <kees> aaah
[19:51] <kees> hm
[19:51] <mdeslaur> just like all flavours use the standard kernel, and repos, etc.
[19:51] <kees> right
[19:52] <kees> okay, I misparsed the "standard Ubuntu" to mean "Ubuntu-the-flavor"
[19:52] <tsimonq2> But, "standard Ubuntu experience" is Canonical-defined? Is that at least public?
[19:52] <kees> You really mean "universal Ubuntu experience"
[19:52] <mdeslaur> I think it would be a disservice to users to have a specific flavour be missing some software installation sources
[19:52] <slangasek> kees: yes, sorry
[19:53] <tsimonq2> mdeslaur: Even if it's one command away to install and it's not being used by default, at all?
[19:53] <tsimonq2> Er, s/used/utilized/.
[19:53] <kees> tsimonq2: if bug 1730159 was solved, how would you feel about Lubuntu with snapd installed?
[19:54] <tsimonq2> kees: Much more inclined.
[19:54] <tsimonq2> But I would still take an additional look.
[19:54] <mdeslaur> tsimonq2: having a webpage instruct a user to do a "snap install" but then have a special section how to do it on a specific flavour would be a disservice to users
[19:54] <kees> okay, then I see two issues here: the *specific* case of snapd in Lubuntu (seemingly solved with bug 1730159 getting fixed), and the desire to have a policy on things getting added to all flavors without notification of the flavors.
[19:55] <mdeslaur> tsimonq2: but if you have technical objections that can be fixed, then I'm sure they could be addressed
[19:55] <tsimonq2> mdeslaur: I see.
[19:55] <tsimonq2> kees: Bingo.
[19:55] <kees> slangasek: you've already commented on that bug; how feasible would it be to solve this before 18.10?
[19:56] <kees> tsimonq2, mdeslaur: it sounds like that for 18.04, Lubuntu will need that extra instruction, since it _isn't_ installed there currently.
[19:56] <slangasek> tsimonq2: so, "does this come from sabdfl" - Canonical is his company, the company has put a lot of money into developing the snap store and experience, and therefore you can expect the barrier for overturning such a platform decision to be somewhat high (even to the point that yes, sabdfl might directly put his thumb on the scale).  As mdeslaur says, Canonical's interest here would instead be
[19:56] <slangasek> to focus on improving snapd so that it met the needs of our flavors
[19:56] <tsimonq2> kees: Does the TB expect me to put snapd back?
[19:57] <tsimonq2> I can, if needed.
[19:57] <kees> tsimonq2: I don't know; that's why I'm bringing that up -- as things stand, it's not installed. but it's a Recommend and Lubuntu doesn't install Recommends by default, so ... everything is working as expected right now
[19:57] <slangasek> kees: I would say that LP: #1730159 should even be solved in 18.04 (though perhaps not before GA)
[19:57] <kees> the statements made about it seem to aim at 18.10 when those defaults will change for lubuntu
[19:57] <tsimonq2> slangasek: OK. I am not saying that I don't like snapd and I don't want to ship it, I'm saying that I see shortcomings to doing that before some problems are solved.
[19:58] <kees> okay, almost out of time.
[19:58] <kees> should we keep an action about flavor-wide default package notifications?
[19:58] <tsimonq2> I think so.
[19:58] <slangasek> perhaps you want to scope that to "daemons"
[19:58] <tsimonq2> kees: installed by default> ack
[19:59] <slangasek> since that's really the only thing that makes snapd problematic, compared to all the other changes Foundations makes unsupervised
[19:59] <kees> that seems reasonable to me.
[19:59] <mdeslaur> I think that's reasonable also
[19:59] <tsimonq2> I can remove snapd from the Lubuntu blacklist, but if Canonical wants snapd, they can raise it to a Depends. :)
[20:00] <kees> tsimonq2: are you will to write up the language for such a policy? then we can review it on email and take it to the next meeting?
[20:00] <tsimonq2> Absolutely.
[20:00] <kees> [action] tsimonq2 to email proposed policy for flavor-notification of daemons being added to all flavors (e.g. snapd into desktop-common)
[20:00] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to email proposed policy for flavor-notification of daemons being added to all flavors (e.g. snapd into desktop-common)
[20:01] <kees> okay, that's time! :)
[20:01] <kees> #endmeeting
[20:01] <tsimonq2> o/
[20:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 10 20:01:06 2018 UTC.
[20:01] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2018/ubuntu-meeting-2.2018-04-10-19.04.moin.txt
[20:01] <slangasek> hah
[20:01] <slangasek> thanks, all :)
[20:01] <kees> thanks!
[20:01] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone!
[20:07] <tsimonq2> Thanks! (now that my connection is better)


[01:14] <teward> ahasenack: what's the timeline you're after for the TLS 1.3 build for NGINX?
[01:14] <teward> I ask this because I'll have to get Release Team approval for the changes I'll need to add (version-limiting the libssl deps at build and run)
[03:41] <cmosguy> hello, can anyone help me with my `xrdp` issue with ubuntu?
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> describe your details what you want to do cmosguy so volunteers can think along
[03:43] <cmosguy> hello, ok so I a installed the `xrdp` packages, I uninstalled all the previous `gdm` `unity` desktop stuff
[03:44] <cmosguy> I am getting the error message in my `~/.xsession-errors`: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown
[03:45] <cmosguy> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/fPfDLJGm/
[03:48] <cmosguy> nevermind
[03:48] <cmosguy> i had some lame `.xsession` file left over
[11:33] <aditya> Hi people, can any one help me I have a headless ubuntu server which is not able to boot due to power failure and is booting into initramfs, how can I resolve this issue since I am unable to boot into bios as there is no keyboard attached to it only a USB logitech wireless keyboard
[11:35] <aditya> basically the keyboard is only getting detected when the system boots into initramfs and not during the booting time, I guess some settings in my bios are making it not work so is there a way I directly type into initramfs prompt like reboot and some option to directly go into bios
[11:36] <aditya> Also is it possible to directly login to the server from something like ssh even when ubuntu has not loaded to manage the server headlessly instead of getting a monitor to connect to the server
[12:29] <blackflow> aditya: power loss should not cause anything software-wise that'd result with what you describe, unless it's root on btrfs and btrfs somehow went belly up due to that (which is known to happen). more like it casued some hardware/bios issue
[12:30] <blackflow> aditya: can you upload to imgur.com a screenshot of what's on when it "boots into initramfs"?
[12:31] <aditya> blackflow: thanks for the input but I managed to run fsck from a live usb on my /dev/sda2 and the problem was resolved
[12:32] <blackflow> requirement for fsck shouldn't break boot. is that btrfs?
[12:33] <aditya> well I don't know now since its booted easily but I am looking at a way I can manage the boot issues remotely.
[12:34] <aditya> since once the system is not booted I cannot ssh into it and now I need to find a way to login to the bio of my server remotely and for that I am unable to find any resources online
[12:35] <blackflow> aditya: you'd need something like IPMPI or another out of band management suite, on the motherboard itself
[12:35] <blackflow> *IPMI
[12:39] <qman__> or an IP KVM
[12:39] <qman__> but IPMI is the better way
[12:39] <friendlyguy> hi there! i am trying to configure landscape-client. upon "landscape-config" i run into  pycurl: libcurl link-time version (7.47.0) is older than compile-time version (7.58.0)
[12:40] <friendlyguy> any idea how to fix that?
[12:41] <qman__> are all your packages up to date?
[12:43] <friendlyguy> yes
[12:44] <friendlyguy> looks like there were problems with python2.7 on the machine
[12:44] <friendlyguy> i removed that and now its "fine"


[03:32] <asdaf> hi all, it there a way to change the kill timeout for a specific job?
[03:48] <Keybuk> asdaf: "kill timeout SECONDS"
[04:01] <wasabi> i shall be in portland
[04:01] <asdaf> Keybuk, thanks
[04:01] <wasabi> yay for me


[10:08] <bluesabre> ochosi, no idea how to do the fades in plymouth, but I can make the background black for now
[10:17] <knome> bluesabre, thanks, in that case i'm fine with the rest of the upload :)
[10:32] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: New release-agnostic wallpaper for Plymouth, release xubuntu-artwork 19.04 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=57c2f0828b941676043d802d1c7ab3d24996cf21 (by Sean Davis)
[11:49] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, we can take a look at that for the next release


[20:05] <eli_> hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[20:05] <eli_> haloo
[20:05] <eli_> i have a problem in ubn 12
[20:06] <eli_> the screen is scrumble
[20:06] <eli_> any ideas?
[20:09] <eli_> anybody here? any help?
[20:22] <Avihay> eli_: you can try to run a non-3d accelerated desktop
[20:24] <Avihay> umm, let me make sure of something: you can boot without a problem and see the log-in screen but when you log-in there are problems?
[20:25] <eli_> the problems starts after log in immiedtly
[20:26] <eli_> i cant boot after i logged on
[20:27] <Avihay> then try to use a non-3d accelerated desktop (like unity2d or gnome2)
[20:28] <Avihay> you can select a different desktop environment from the log-in screen
[20:28] <Avihay> eli_: ^
[20:28] <eli_> ok - wait i'll try
[20:28] <Avihay> you may talk in Hebrew if it's easier for you
[20:29] <eli_> ok
[20:30] <eli_> יש לי שתי אופציות : ubuntu2D   &    אובנטו
[20:30] <Avihay> try the 2d
[20:31] <eli_> עבדי
[20:31] <eli_> תודה רבה
[20:31] <eli_> מה הייתה הבעיה?
[20:31] <Avihay> ok, now you have a good environment to work with
[20:32] <Avihay> your 3d driver has a problem
[20:32] <eli_> איך מתקנים?
[20:32] <Avihay> we can probably fix it by installing the propriatory driver so you can have 3d acceleration
[20:32] <eli_> אתה מתכוון לבעיה בחומרה?
[20:32] <Avihay> no, it's software
[20:32] <eli_> ok
[20:33] <Avihay> usually hardware manufacturers don't create drivers for linux, so linux users have to work blindly to create a driver for linux
[20:33] <eli_> מרכז התכנה של אובנטו יכול לעזור?
[20:33] <Avihay> ok, let's first make sure of what GFX card you have
[20:34] <Avihay> will you be so kind as to open a terminal window and type "lspci | grep vga" (without the "")
[20:34] <eli_> בטח, אני רק איטי קצת
[20:34] <Avihay> lspci = list (what devices are on the) PCI bus
[20:35] <Avihay>  grep vga = show only lines that contain the word "vga"
[20:36] <Avihay> so, ATI or AMD?  better show me the whole line if you can. you can run an IRC client from your linux desktop and copy-paste
[20:37] <eli_> איך אני פותח חלון טרמינל?
[20:37] <eli_> המעבד הוא AMD
[20:37] <Avihay> umm, I don't really use gnome, I forgot how it's called
[20:37] <Avihay> sec
[20:38] <Avihay> if you press alt+f2, do you get a run dialog?
[20:39] <eli_> כן
[20:39] <Avihay> ok, try writeing gnome-terminal in it
[20:40] <Avihay> and enter, I guess
[20:40] <Avihay> if that doesn't work, run xterm
[20:41] <eli_> זה נפתח
[20:41] <Avihay> ok
[20:41] <Avihay> lspci | grep vga
[20:42] <Avihay> you can run just "lspci" to see the full output
[20:42] <Avihay> and you might want to run an IRC client from the linux machine so you can copy/paste
[20:43] <eli_> כתבתי את שורת הפקודה שנתת למעלה - התוצאה כלום
[20:44] <eli_> יש "|" ?ון? נכ
[20:44] <Avihay> yes
[20:44] <Avihay> try just "lspci"
[20:46] <Avihay> ok, you should get a listing of the cards in your computer. find the one that describes the make and model of your GFX card. it usually has the word VGA in the same line
[20:46] <Avihay> ahh, it's VGA and not vga...
[20:46] <Avihay> lspci | grep VGA
[20:48] <eli_> אני מחליף למשתמש eli99
[20:49] <eli99> hi
[20:49] <Avihay> hi
[20:49] <Avihay> lspci | grep VGA
[20:50] <eli99> elias@elias-MS-7309:~$ lspci | grep VGA 00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6100 nForce 405] (rev a2)
[20:50] <Avihay> there are also ls, lsusb, lshw and a few other neat utilities like that
[20:51] <eli99> so my vga card is geforce
[20:51] <Avihay> ok, you have an nVidia card. nVida cards like ATI card have two sets of drivers. the open-source one (it's the one installed by deafult and for you, it doesn't seem to work)
[20:51] <Avihay> and the closed-sourced one that nVidia is making
[20:52] <Avihay> installing the closed-source one will probably let you enjoy 3D acceleration
[20:52] <eli99> ok
[20:52] <Avihay> ubuntu has an easy to use GUI to doing that
[20:52] <eli_> איך?
[20:53] <Avihay> tell me if this helps: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
[20:54] <Avihay> otherwise, I'll guide you on how to do it from the terminal
[20:56] <eli_> אני מנסה עכשיו
[20:56] <Avihay> good luck
[20:58] <eli_> מוריד ומתקין
[20:58] <eli_> :)
[20:58] <Avihay> oh, good, I don't know how it looks on your side, and I thought I need to guide you blindly
[21:01] <eli_> בינתיים זה מתקין
[21:02] <eli_> דרך אגב אני זוכר שזה אותה בעיה שהייתה לי כאשר הייתה לי פידורה 15
[21:03] <eli_> מפעיל מחדש
[21:04] <eli_> הצלחנו אחי
[21:04] <eli_> אני מודה לך מאד
[21:04] <eli_> אין עליך
[22:21] <nady> ?
[22:23] <nady> חג שמח
[22:33] <nady> מה עושים?
[22:45] <nady> מישהו ער?


[00:36] <slangasek> boo, gcc-4.5 ftbfs on powerpc because of a wrong path for the spu build
[00:37]  * slangasek does a test build on davis for the fix while waiting for armel to finish


[00:53] <ailo> ScottL, ping
[03:50] <ScottL> ailo, pong
[03:50] <ailo> Hi ScottL
[03:50] <ScottL> hi ailo
[03:50] <ailo> How's progress? I was just working on the documentation a bit
[03:50] <ailo> Realized I was overdoing some things. Hoping we can keep it really short and simple :P
[03:50] <ScottL> i haven't done anything this week
[03:51] <ScottL> but i have a hole in my schedule tomorrow afternoon that i was going to use for this
[03:52] <ailo> No news on the XFCE bit?
[03:52] <ailo> I just installed Oneiric yesterday btw
[03:53] <ailo> And I got myself a firewire device a few days ago
[03:54] <ScottL> ailo, i saw that you talking about your firewire in OSM
[03:54] <ScottL> that's cool
[03:55] <ScottL> the bit about xfce, cory has his packages lined out and is waiting for mr prouit (i think) to look over them
[03:55] <ScottL> mr prouit is from the xubuntu devs
[03:56] <ScottL> i really should go ahead and make my changes to the bzr branches in preparation for cory's changes
[03:57] <ScottL> the loose schedule is to have this ready to test the xfce by alpha2
[03:58] <ailo> ScottL, Sounds good.
[03:59] <ailo> ScottL, As far as ubuntustudio-controls goes, I will need a couple of more weeks, but it's really not going to be much of a problem to code.
[03:59] <ailo> I should probably look into what's happening with python overall
[04:00] <ailo> And gtk
[04:00] <ailo> Things are changing now with Gnome3
[14:36] <scott-work> ailo:  do have any of your notes somewhere where i can view them or should i just start making a google doc now?
[14:43] <holstein> scott-work: are you talking about documentation?
[14:43] <holstein> if so, get me in on that doc
[14:44] <scott-work> holstein: i can do that
[14:44] <scott-work> i have a process consideration or goal in documentation
[14:45] <scott-work> i am hoping that at some point after we have started identifying what pages we would need that we can group them
[14:45] <scott-work> and create major heading or topics
[14:45] <scott-work> then using these topics we can start moderating the existing pages to fit this form so that when new pages are created we have a place to link them
[14:46] <scott-work> i am concerned about having orhpan pages and a general lack of organization
[14:46] <holstein> yeah, and im having a hard time getting my mind around it
[14:47] <holstein> but, if ailo had a page where he could delegate some work, id chip away at it
[14:47] <scott-work> if you want to read about what has already been done i'll provide some links
[14:48] <scott-work> this is labaled as "video tutorials" but basically outlines what i felt the documentation should follow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
[14:48] <scott-work> the very first section of this page was an attempt to organize it visually as well:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox
[14:50] <scott-work> basically, the organizational thought was to create a linear path that would educate a new user through giving step-by-step examples for experienced users
[14:51] <scott-work> hopefully we can also align/supplement this with actual videos as well for key areas
[14:51] <holstein> yeah... its challenging, but i think its something that could at least aid
[14:51] <holstein> these are things that most of which might actually be distro non-specific too
[14:52] <holstein> which i think would be cool... get some arch user traffic or whatever
[14:52] <holstein> not that im trying to convert, but having other users talk up our wiki's and tute's... that would be cool
[14:53] <scott-work> oh agree, especially that jack stuff, explaining what it is, why is usefull, how powerful it is
[14:53] <holstein> the key stuff right after you get it running
[14:53] <scott-work> especially if we can get in early on new stuff like jack-session...i wonder how many people really understand what it is, why it's useful, and how to use it?
[14:54] <holstein> tweaking it, and connecting... thats all generic
[14:54] <scott-work> holstein: exactly, which is why i wanted to view this from a new user perspective
[14:54] <scott-work> "key stuff right after you get runnign"^^^^
[14:54] <holstein> scott-work: what i find is even alot of the ubuntustudio users dont know how to use it
[14:54] <scott-work> by it do you mean "ubuntu studio" or "jack"?
[14:54] <holstein> JACK
[14:54] <scott-work> right
[14:55] <scott-work> i agree, it's fucking daunting if you are uneducated about it
[14:55] <scott-work> oops, sorry for language
[14:55] <holstein> often, an old-schooler will pipe up in the OSMP channel and say 'OK... how the hell do i use JACK?"
[14:55] <holstein> and ive been assuming they already were
[14:55] <scott-work> lol...that's funny (and sad) how that happens
[14:55] <holstein> some of them are coders too
[14:56] <holstein> JACK is just different
[14:56] <holstein> i think someone with access to a studio patchbay (which i have) might be able to draw some comparisons
[14:57] <scott-work> a good picture of one would assist the analogy, certainly :)
[14:57] <holstein> thats really a selling point too
[14:58] <holstein> the thing that makes it challenging to a new user or convert would really turn a studio guy on
[14:58] <holstein> and especially as this stuff gets more attractive looking
[14:58] <holstein> the JACK connection GUI's
[15:04] <scott-work> i saw that qjackctl has a new release
[15:04] <scott-work> side note:  i hope to test the -lowlatency kernel past just installing it during the long weekend
[15:05] <scott-work> hopefully then we can get it packages and start pushing it into the repos some what soon then after others test it as well
[15:39] <scott-work> holstein: thanks, mike :)
[15:39] <holstein> :)
[15:41] <scott-work> i'll try to watch the videos soon to understand what's what
[15:41] <holstein> i just did a 'hangout'
[15:42] <holstein> i had a virtual tour of the main office at redhat :)
[17:22] <scott-work> holstein: i had forgotten that ailo had shared a doc with me, i think i shared it with you as well
[17:24] <holstein> scott-work: got it... thanks
[17:41] <scott-work> holstein: i'm adding some stuff right now, i don't know how google is handling that or if you can update it or see that i've even changed it
[17:41] <scott-work> not changed, but added to it
[17:42] <holstein> its actually pretty quick to update
[17:42] <holstein> we use one for the ubuntu weekly newsletter
[17:45] <scott-work> that's cool
[17:45] <scott-work> i'm thinking about how we describe things like recording audio with ardour
[17:45] <scott-work> would it be better to give them a lot of little "block" of information or throw it all together in a tutorial with a larger goal?
[17:46] <scott-work> example, i'm currently forwarding showing a user how to get sound ito ardour, then how to record a track, then how to multitrack it
[17:46] <scott-work> or should this all just be wrapped into a tutorial?
[17:47] <holstein> i think smaller ones that are well indexed somewhere
[17:47] <holstein> then, we can add to the master index or whatever easily
[17:48] <scott-work> i like this idea because if you are struggling to do a certain part it can be confusing to try to find that section within a larger tutorial sometimes
[17:48] <holstein> yeah... i think its easier on both ends
[17:55] <scott-work> i suppose if the tutorial were clearly laid out, "in the first part we will focus on getting audio into ardour" for example, it could still existin with a tutorial though
[17:55] <scott-work> i kinda like the tutorial because it becomes kinda like a playbook for people to put it all together, even though the steps are logical and in order
[17:56] <scott-work> i admit that i dislike it when people tell me, "look at the manpage" because i want more than just the specifics, i want an overall view of things, kinda like a well written tutorial
[17:57] <scott-work> also, we need to think about how MIDI will fit within the audio portion, especially if we are using tutorials
[17:58] <holstein> yeah... i think it'll be easier with an index
[17:58] <holstein> then, we can edit as we go, if needed
[17:58] <holstein> otherwise, we gotta get the whole thing laid out, and working, and then put it up
[17:58] <scott-work> right, that's my feelings exactly :)   right on the head
[18:01] <scott-work> i wish there was a white board we could use to scribble things together
[18:01]  * scott-work is going to lunch
[18:03] <holstein> http://www.skrbl.com/173451774 maybe
[18:06] <holstein> nah... its laggy
[19:18] <ailo> scott-work, Just to add to the discussion on documentation. I really want to separate documentation that tries to teach users about how to make music and how to mix songs from the type of documentation that deals with just reference about the tools that are available
[19:19] <ailo> I really would like the documentation to be as simple as possible, but have it include links to other documentation projects that deal with specific things
[19:20] <ailo> While I was working on it before, I felt like the US documentation doesn't really be very extensive at all
[19:20] <ailo> doesn't need to be extensive, is what I was trying to say
[19:21] <scott-work> ailo:  i agree that a majority of the documetnation doesn't need to be extensive
[19:21] <ailo> Workflows can be interesting, but they should be a separate part all togehter
[19:21] <scott-work> many topics just need to be mentioned, almost in a casual conversational way, just so people are aware of it
[19:21] <ailo> Right
[19:22] <scott-work> audio interfaces are a subject like this, i believe
[19:22] <scott-work> we can point out a few items to contrast their abilities and limitations and move on
[19:23] <scott-work> ailo: i also agree with linking to other sources, saves time
[19:23] <scott-work> ailo: but i'm not sure i understand what you mean about separating different documentations (this is from your first sentence)
[19:24] <ailo> Well, I guess the best way is to show you what I would prefer, once I have it somewhat sorted out
[19:25] <ailo> Right now, I have some topics, in order but I'm trying to decide what to write about each one
[19:25] <ailo> One thing that came to mind, which seems like a big part of the audio bit, is about jack, PA, ladish and stuff like that
[19:26] <ailo> scott-work, Did you work out how the PA-jack bridge works?
[19:28] <scott-work> ailo: i did!
[19:29] <scott-work> it worked well for my m-audio delta 44 card, but made the onboard card all but unusable
[19:29] <ailo> scott-work, So, what do you think? Should we not try to add that as an option to system settings on a us-controls application?
[19:30] <ailo> scott-work, Would you care to let me know about the details about that?
[19:30] <scott-work> ailo: i would still consider including it by default
[19:30] <scott-work> ailo: i will gladly share the details, but there isn't much
[19:31] <ailo> scott-work, Any extra packages, or just a script?
[19:31] <scott-work> ailo: i testing it twice before removing the pulseaudio-module-jack package because i was doing the linux outlaws interview using pulse and skype
[19:32] <ailo> ok
[19:32] <scott-work> ailo: all i did was install pulseaudio-module-jack and either relog or reboot (don't remember) and it worked
[19:32] <scott-work> pulse sinks showed up in the jack connections window
[19:32] <ailo> Aha, well, that's cool then. I think I tried it once, but no success
[19:32] <ailo> Will need to try again
[19:33] <scott-work> david h. said that natty was the first system to be "ready" for it (i think)
[19:33] <scott-work> something about dbus or jack-dbus or something, cant' remember the specifics from the email on the list
[19:34] <ailo> scott-work, Why is it that your onboard card didn't work, I wonder
[19:34] <ailo> I should ask falktx about that maybe
[19:34] <scott-work> i woudl like to know as well, i was planning on doing more testing with it, develop a procedure and then ask others to test it as well
[19:35] <scott-work> but i need to get a few other things done first, like testing the -lowlatency kernel, documetnation, and updated the seeds for applications updates :)
[19:46] <scott-work> ailo:  i want to reiterate something i told holstein, i think of the documentation progress as a linear progression of how i would explain ubuntu studio to a new user who is unfamiliar with it
[20:14] <scott-work> ailo: my previous statement wasn't intended to mandate how the documentation of the organization, it was just to explain _my_ organization of it
[20:15] <holstein> scott-work: you're allowed to mandate :)
[20:15] <scott-work> lol, but that doesn't really facilitate cooperation, collaboration, or community ;)
[20:17] <ailo> scott-work, No worries. I'm pretty flexible :P. I have some clues and ideas right now, and I feel ok with them. Just need to finish something up and present it
[20:18] <holstein> ailo: i implied this earlier, but..
[20:18] <holstein> if you are heading up this documentation
[20:18] <holstein> feel free to farm things out to me
[20:18] <holstein> i just cant seem to take the time to get my mind around the scope of how to get started
[20:19] <ailo> holstein, One thing that I have no clue about right now is installation
[20:19] <ailo> Since, we're moving on to Xubuntu based installation
[20:20] <holstein> ailo: as long as its a wiki page right?
[20:20] <holstein> and just says 'installation'
[20:20] <holstein> we can update and switch out as needed
[20:20] <ailo> I'm going to write stuff up in documents first
[20:20] <holstein> ideally, a link to a youtube with a screencast
[20:20] <holstein> and other visual aides
[20:21] <ailo> holstein, About the wiki, I'm not in a hurry to start pages there yet. I want to work out the text somewhere first
[20:21] <ailo> holstein, So, Google docs, or just OO docs is what I use right now
[20:22] <holstein> ailo: and ideally, revamp what we got, and clean them up
[20:22] <holstein> so theres not duplicates
[20:22] <scott-work> holstein: ailo and i have had this discussion before so i'm hesitant to beat the dead horse, but... i agree that having some structure identified (an outline or skeleton) will greatly facilitate progress
[20:22] <scott-work> although i think we need to all agree with the general outline or structure
[20:23] <ailo> I think we'll get there pretty soon, but it's not a bad idea to just start somewhere either
[20:23] <ailo> Like, doing something on just installation
[20:23] <ailo> But, starting to add wiki pages without an idea about structure is perhaps a little tricky
[20:27] <ailo> I feel more comfortable starting to work on the structure once I already have some text to fill it with
[20:28] <ailo> That's why I'm starting off by just writing and thinking about the different topics
[20:28] <ailo> Like, the sound system. PA, jack, alsa
[20:30] <ailo> It gets a little complicated trying to explain the sound system in just a few lines
[20:30] <ailo> For new users, that is
[20:31] <scott-work> ailo: i agree :)
[20:31] <ailo> But, if we have a very nice default way of doing things, we can just very quickly describe that
[20:31] <scott-work> but a few sentences can explain that there are two and that they serve different purposes
[20:31] <ailo> And give reference on each sound system separately at their own pages, if we want
[20:32] <ailo> Like, it's not hard to get some sound out, if you do this, this and this. No need to go inte detail. In this sence, that description would be more workflöw based
[20:33] <ailo> At the end of the page you can have some links for Alsa, PA, Jack, OSS and whatever else
[20:34] <ailo> Anyway, that's one thing I've been thinking about now
[20:34] <ailo> And also about hardware and devices
[20:35] <ailo> pci, usb and firewire
[20:35] <ailo> Cause it would be nice if it all could be explained quickly and very generally
[20:37] <ailo> The first thing a user wants, is just to start working on music. They want to get right into it
[20:37] <ailo> And try things out
[20:37] <ailo> Once they've done that a bit, they might revisit the documentation to read about more advanced topics
[20:38] <ailo> Or, video
[20:38] <ailo> Or, graphics
[20:39] <ailo> At first, I see it as a three step process. 1. install. 2. sound-check (jack, drivers, video-drivers, etc). 3. programs
[20:40] <ailo> Once you've done those three steps you might want to learn more about each step
[20:41] <ailo> The most frustrating thing that can happen to the user is when 1. installation doesn't work. 2. Can't get any sound
[20:41] <holstein> i like where this is going :)
[20:42] <holstein> is there a way to view all the current pages in ubuntustudio/*
[20:42] <holstein> on the wiki
[20:42] <ailo> We've been talking about tagging them
[20:42] <ailo> I don't know that much about the wiki myself, but I suppose tagging them would allow to see all pages in an index
[20:42] <ailo> Or, is it by adding a category?
[20:43] <holstein> im not sure about the indards, but its quite configurable
[20:43] <holstein> and ideally, they are just easy to find, and logically linked together
[20:43] <holstein> and from the site
[20:44] <holstein> now.. you look at something simple like !vanilla, and its all over the place
[20:44] <holstein> it would be easier i think going forward to think about having one page for things like that
[20:44] <holstein> instead of vanilla in hardy or whatever
[20:44] <holstein> just one running wiki that we can add to, and update, and remove stuff
[20:45] <holstein> anyways, ailo.. if you get the outline going, i can poke around and find pages that may be what we need, and plug them in on the google doc
[20:46] <holstein> we can revamp them with the material we have on the doc
[20:47] <holstein> i have a blueray burner coming today
[20:47] <ailo> holstein, You think you'll have any use for it? :P
[20:47] <holstein> im looking forward to archiving some ardour sessions easily, and getting them off the main machine
[20:47] <holstein> ailo: i plan on just using it for data
[20:47] <ailo> holstein, Is it very reliable, do you think?
[20:48] <holstein> ailo: i'll let you know ;)
[20:48] <ailo> Why not hard drives? Isn't that cheaper
[20:48] <holstein> i have an internal 1tb and external that im mirroring to
[20:48] <holstein> but still, i'd like to just archive some things and not mirror them and/or worry with them
[20:49] <ailo> I got to get some server space somewhere one of these days
[20:49] <ailo> Just for files
[20:49] <holstein> i thought about that too
[20:49] <holstein> im just not ready yet
[20:49] <ailo> Not good having all machines under one roof
[20:49] <holstein> theres that too
[20:50] <holstein> i can archive, and leave a copy somewhere else if its something that important
[20:50] <holstein> over at my parents house or whatever
[20:55] <ailo> We have a machine standing in my rehearsal. I use git to sync the machines
[20:55] <ailo> But, the bandwidth is too slow
[20:55] <ailo> Doesn't really work with large audio files
[20:55] <holstein> imagine with video :/
[20:57] <ailo> Mobile internet is getting cheaper, but it'll be a while before I get that
[20:57] <ailo> Would be nice with 100 Mbit
[20:59] <scott-work> i use several portable usb drives to backup and most of the time i keep one at work as well just to get it away from the others
[20:59] <scott-work> i had been backup up to cds and dvds but i heard that cds/dvds go bad over several years
[21:00] <scott-work> s/backup/backing up
[21:00] <scott-work> i had considered somethign like carbonte which i hear as a flat $57 a year for infinite backup but i don't think there is a linux client
[22:23] <saidinesh5> ailo: where do you stay??
[22:24] <ailo> saidinesh5, You mean, where do I live?
[22:24] <ailo> Sweden
[22:24] <saidinesh5> hehe..... ya
[22:24] <saidinesh5> just curious.....since you mentioned 100Mbit :P


[06:03] <jyo> /wc/names
[15:20] <The_Letter_M> Hey Jono
[15:20] <jono> hey The_Letter_M
[15:21] <The_Letter_M> So after I ran into you at Starbucks on Saturday I've been getting my Gal Nex ready to put Ubuntu on it
[15:21] <The_Letter_M> But I wanted to know if it will work on a Verizon Galaxy nexus
[15:23] <The_Letter_M> I've only read about people installing it to the GSM devices
[18:27]  * MarkDude just had two Pis arrive in the mail
[18:28] <MarkDude> The shipping delays are over. They were ordered last week


[02:11] <Keybuk> oops, battery went flat there :p
[02:14] <_ion> heh
[02:25] <Keybuk> video of my talk in the /topic now
[02:26] <Keybuk> davidz was telling me about a neat malloc-fail checker they have
[02:26] <Keybuk> it detects which mallocs were run, and then re-runs the tests each time causing them to fail
[02:42] <Keybuk> though I'm trying to work out why it has a copy of gcov in it