[09:20] <emc22> Hi, I have the google Calendar Tab 3.9 installed , how to change the list display into sreadsheat display?
[09:20] <emc22> in thunderbird of course


 Hey
[05:27] <Imaginatrix> Hey all, could anyone help me with an issue. I am running Kubuntu 18.04.3 and for some reason, each audio source is creating a new instance in the audio manager that all starts with a default volume level... which is loud. is there a way to make firefox just be one volume or at least remember when i turn things down.
[05:28] <Imaginatrix> it's getting quite irritating having a youtube video auto play and then my speakers screaming at me lol
[05:28] <Imaginatrix> i would like to merge any audio output from an app to one thing, or at least have new instances respect previously set volume levels
[05:29] <Imaginatrix> like if im stuck with the multi-instanced thing then each new one should open at the current volume level I have set
[06:29] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:12] <justXuX> Good indeed.
[08:22] <dell> help:who knows how to solve this problem??  Akregator is a component of "Kontact",a RSS reader.But when I open it,It always happens a error and crash and closed.KDE also gives a warning.But when I open Kontact and then open Akregator,it doesn't have error.Why?
[08:22] <dell> In Kubuntu 18.04.3LTS.Just upgrade system to update.
[08:30] <dell> help:who knows how to solve this problem??  Akregator is a component of "Kontact",a RSS reader.But when I open it,It always happens a error and crash and closed.KDE also gives a warning.But when I open Kontact and then open Akregator,it doesn't have error.Why?In Kubuntu 18.04.3LTS.Just upgrade system to the newest edition
 Good morning
[11:28] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[18:51] <hemenson> opa
[18:51] <xdev_> heelo
[19:58] <gumer> hola que tal con todos...
[19:59] <gumer> Hola con todos que tal ...
[19:59] <gumer> alguien que hable español
[21:26] <yogib33r> bonsoir


 "Today:..." <- I think `SurfaceInputDispatcher` might be a wrong abstraction entirely? And something more directly `wl_seat`-like might be a better match.
[01:35] <RAOF> Hm. We could switch over to using libepoxy. Sometime….
 "I think `SurfaceInputDispatcher`..." <- That's really interesting. I've never thought about the complexity of this. I've a walcom and both pencil and mouse can interact together. The mouse tries to ghost itself when the pencil is near the toouchpad surface. What a challenge for  developers and testing. Thanks
[07:17] <RAOF> Why? Why? Why do you work on nouveau but not amdgpu?
[08:04] <RAOF> Today:
[08:04] <RAOF> * Engaged in the [dmabuf import bug](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2958)*
[08:04] <RAOF>  * Today:
[08:04] <RAOF> - Engaged in the [dmabuf import bug](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2958)*
[08:04] <RAOF>  * Today:
[08:04] <RAOF> - Engaged in the [dmabuf import bug](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2958)
[08:08] <RAOF>  * Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/47bfecdb878308813f7571d2d9c2cc8c7660f0c0>)
[15:40] <Saviq> RFC: Migrating our performance tests to Checkbox, I'm thinking to get rid of the explicit `--gtest_filter`s we have (`-Hosted*:*Xwayland.windowed`) that work around failures on `eglstream-kms`.
[15:40] <Saviq> I could ask udev for the driver in use and quirk the failing tests away in the test harness… any other ideas?
[15:40] <Saviq> This will, of course, be impacted by the hybrid, where the decision will be trickier - and we won't yet have a way to even ask Mir to render on one, but output on another, platform?
[15:43] <Saviq> And with that…... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/f0ecc78b37d20d7c07ca2b01919811fddf660925>)
[15:43] <alan_g[m]> What is the advantage of changing a gtest_filter to a nastly hack in the test?
[15:45] <alan_g[m]> Tests should not second-guess whether they really test what they say
[15:48] <Saviq> Didn't mean the test itself, but the test runner (i.e. checkbox-mir). Rather than hardcoding the filter for a number of hardwares in Jenkins, it could skip them based on the environment it's running in
[15:49] <Saviq> Wouldn't be much different to an explicit filter baked into the runner, like it is today
[15:49] <alan_g[m]> That makes more sense
[17:01] <alan_g[m]> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/939718aa2119f2f4291e8cdbb2803ca710afd309>)


[05:34] <ealden> MarioMeyer, ping
[07:23] <MarioMeyer> ealden, pong
[07:38] <UWS30> Can anyone point me to a useful URL that explains how a mailserver operates and how to set one up on my Ubuntu web server?
[07:38] <UWS30> I did the howtoforge server install but I just can't figure out how the mailserver part works.  I'm a newb.
[07:39] <MarioMeyer> the howtoforge one is very straight forward.. just follow it
[07:42] <UWS30> I agree that it's great, and I did follow it, but I'm not sure how to operate the mailserver now. There weren't any "instructions for dummies" that came with it.
[03:33] <Pygi> wb matt
[03:33] <Pygi> nop, I don't have the link anymore :-/
[05:32] <Pygi> o, chara :)


[18:07] <speckmade> So the Ubuntu User Days will happen in here, I hear. Now what does "presentation" mean - will the presenters just flood us with chat messages or will there be a video stream or something?..
[18:08] <pleia2> they talk in here (I wouldn't call it a "flood" - it's normal chatting speed)
[18:09] <pleia2> then you ask questions and discuss what's going on in the session in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[20:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/07/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[20:01] <primes2h> Hello all and welcome to this intro on Ubuntu Laptop testing!
[20:02] <primes2h> This classroom session is going to be held by three members of the Laptop Testing Team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-laptop-testing.
[20:02] <primes2h> This session goes to be hosted by Sergio Zanchetta (primes2h), Sergio Andres Meneses (SergioMeneses) and Carla Sella (Letozaf_)....
[20:03] <primes2h> So let’s first introduce ourselves:
[20:03] <primes2h> I’m Sergio Zanchetta from the Ubuntu Italian Team. My work in Ubuntu is mainly on translations and testing.
[20:03] <primes2h> I’m a member of the Ubuntu Italian Translators Team, Ubuntu QA Team, one of the founders of the Italian Testing Team and an administrator of the Laptop Testing Team, which I founded as well.
[20:04] <primes2h> Here you can find more information about me: https://launchpad.net/~primes2h.
[20:04] <SergioMeneses> hi all!
[20:04] <SergioMeneses> my name is Sergio Andres Meneses, I’m from Ubuntu Colombian Team, I actually work with the Ubuntu Loco Council and the Ubuntu QA team in the Laptop testing field from this cycle :)
[20:05] <SergioMeneses> you can find more information about me in my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergioMeneses
[20:05] <letozaf> Hello to everyone
[20:05] <letozaf> My name is Carla Sella, I’m Italian and I’m member of the  Ubuntu QA Team,  Italian Testing Team and Laptop testing team.
[20:05] <letozaf> I have been testing for about a couple of years now and I am mostly involved in manual and automated testing, you can find information about me here: https://launchpad.net/~carla-sella.
[20:06] <SergioMeneses> Today we're going to learn about "Testing on a Laptop".
[20:07] <letozaf> You may ask questions at any point.. Just be sure to utilize the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel So let's get started!
[20:07] <primes2h> Why do we test laptops?
[20:08] <primes2h> As you can see on the laptop testing wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop
[20:08] <primes2h> “We're on a mission to get Ubuntu to work great on as many different makes and models of laptops as possible.”
[20:08] <SergioMeneses> In fact the aim of the project is to find out all the bugs affecting laptops hardware during the development process, so that developers can fix them in time for the release.
[20:09] <primes2h> Besides, not less important, is to keep track of bugs themselves also after a stable image has been released.
[20:09] <letozaf> So anyone that has a laptop has the chance to test how Ubuntu works on it and in case they have nasty problems with some hardware they can report a bug and help get their problems solved.
[20:10] <letozaf> This way they will help make Ubuntu work on a larger number of laptops and hardware.
[20:10] <letozaf> Tests are carried out following  testcases that tell you how to  run tests on your laptop, each one is designed to find out if a specific piece of hardware works straight off. Any bugs have to be reported in launchpad and added in the Laptop Tracker.
[20:11] <primes2h> These tests are run in either stable releases or current milestone of development release.
[20:11] <SergioMeneses> We will now explain how to start your adventure in Laptop testing:
[20:11] <SergioMeneses> - Create a Launchpad Account.
[20:11] <SergioMeneses> You will  need a launchpad account because it is a very important tool on our testing trip:
[20:12] <SergioMeneses> a Launchpad account is needed for Reporting bugs, Question and Answers, Translations, Blueprints and even more! :) (imho: launchpad rocks!).
[20:12] <SergioMeneses> Then you need to sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct and commit yourself to comply with it.
[20:12] <SergioMeneses> here is were to get started: https://login.launchpad.net/+new_account,
[20:13] <SergioMeneses> And here is an example on what you will get at the end: https://launchpad.net/~sergiomeneses.
[20:13] <primes2h> - Create a Personal Wiki Page.
[20:14] <primes2h> A personal wiki page is needed to let us know something about you, your goals and expectations about ubuntu, even something funny.
[20:14] <primes2h> It’s just a way to know each other and personal skills.
[20:14] <primes2h> And here is an example of a personal wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergioMeneses
[20:15] <letozaf> - Join the Ubuntu Laptop Testing Team \o/
[20:15] <letozaf> You must join  our team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-laptop-testing
[20:16] <letozaf> and our mailing list<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:16] <letozaf> Remember also to join ubuntu-quality mailing list<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to keep informed about general testing related stuff.
[20:17] <SergioMeneses> - Set up an Hardware Profile
[20:17] <SergioMeneses> A hardware profile is needed to know the details of the hardware you are testing on.
[20:17] <SergioMeneses> This will allow people to know on what hardware Ubuntu works fine and also help developers fix bugs in case you find one or more during testing.
[20:18] <primes2h> There are two ways to do this:
[20:18] <primes2h> 1 - Automatic: you can create a profile on the ubuntu friendly website (graphic mode).
[20:18] <primes2h> 2 - Manual: you can share your hardware profile on a wiki page.
[20:19] <primes2h> Theoretically the first one should be the easiest way, because you can automatically obtain a complete hardware profile of your laptop.
[20:19] <primes2h> However, the inner limitations of the tools used, makes this method the long-lasting and less practical one for now.
[20:20] <letozaf> Briefly speaking, you need to run checkbox  from the stable release previous to the development image you are going to test.
[20:20] <letozaf> This way you are bound to perform a full system testing.
[20:21] <letozaf> Checkbox is pre-installed in Ubuntu and you will find it searching “System Testing” in the Dash.
[20:21] <letozaf> Finally, providing your launchpad email, you can submit results and then, after some time (that can go from a few hours to some days) you’ll find your hardware profile on the Ubuntu Friendly website: https://friendly.ubuntu.com/.
[20:21] <letozaf> This is how your laptop will look like in Ubuntu Friendly:
[20:22] <letozaf> https://friendly.ubuntu.com/12.04/Hewlett-Packard/HP%20G62%20Notebook%20PC/i:BZI:NyVHp:BI:I8g:BV6:BFCp:GzC:BEG:BV6:BFCp:h:B5G:DNO:BFC/
[20:23] <primes2h> We aim to simplify and improve the automatic process, so expect some news in the near future.
[20:23] <primes2h> That said , we are  going to explain the manual method more extensively, as it’s the most practical way to do this:
[20:23] <primes2h> You have to create a subpage of your personal wiki page, where you’ll put all information about your laptop.
[20:24] <primes2h> For example: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YourPersonalPage/LaptopMakeModel (this is a only a template).
[20:26] <SergioMeneses> An example of an existing personal profile to use as a guide is:
[20:26] <SergioMeneses> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergioMeneses/AcerAspire4750
[20:26] <SergioMeneses> Now we are going to take some information from our computer to fill in our wiki page:
[20:27] <SergioMeneses> Laptop make and model -  the output of the commands:
[20:27] <SergioMeneses> $sudo dmidecode -s system-manufacturer
[20:27] <SergioMeneses> and
[20:27] <SergioMeneses> $sudo dmidecode -s system-product-name
[20:28] <SergioMeneses> now, On Lenovo laptops you need also to run
[20:28] <SergioMeneses> $sudo dmidecode -s system-version
[20:28] <SergioMeneses> to get the first part of the model name.
[20:29] <SergioMeneses> Laptop hardware information - the output of the commands:
[20:29] <SergioMeneses> $lspci -v  → (pci devices)
[20:30] <SergioMeneses> $lsusb    → (usb devices)
[20:30] <SergioMeneses> (without any external device attached)
[20:30] <SergioMeneses> and then
[20:30] <SergioMeneses> $lshw -short  → (hardware list)
[20:31] <SergioMeneses> with all this information ,we fill our wiki page :) as you can see in the model
[20:32] <SergioMeneses> questions about this?
[20:32] <primes2h> Any Questions ?
[20:36] <SergioMeneses> ok, there is not questions right now :)
[20:36] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Are you testing development releases, or the versions of Ubuntu that have already been released?
[20:40] <primes2h> In fact we test both, but we are more focused on development releases
[20:41] <SergioMeneses> by the way, you can find our testing progress here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds
[20:42] <SergioMeneses> as you can see, there are LTS versions and Daily versions :)
[20:42] <ClassBot> JoseeAntonioR asked: What do those $ signs at the beginning mean? Should I type them in the Terminal too?
[20:43] <letozaf> Noskcaj, that indicates the shell you do not have to type that in
[20:43] <letozaf> sorry I meant no
[20:44] <letozaf> that indicates the shell you do not have to type that in
[20:44] <letozaf> you just have to type what comes after that sign
[20:44] <letozaf> and press enter
[20:44] <letozaf> so, for instance you have to enter:
[20:44] <letozaf> lspci -v
[20:44] <letozaf> and press enter
[20:45] <ClassBot> balloons asked: So at the moment, I should manually create a profile for my computer for testing?
[20:46] <letozaf> Well it depends
[20:46] <letozaf> The quickest way is creating a wiki page with all the info about
[20:46] <letozaf> your laptops hardware
[20:46] <letozaf> and then putting the link to the wiki page in the testcase result
[20:47] <letozaf> so we know what hardware has been tested
[20:47] <letozaf> the other way is to use checkbox, but it takes
[20:47] <letozaf> much more time, even if maybe
[20:48] <letozaf> having all your hardware info in the Ubuntu Friendly site
[20:48] <letozaf> is better
[20:48] <SergioMeneses> https://friendly.ubuntu.com/
[20:49] <letozaf> thank you SergioMeneses
[20:49] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: how do I know whether I should I contribute to laptop testing or regular iso tracker testing?
[20:49] <letozaf> Well they are two different ways to test and contribute to Ubuntu
[20:50] <primes2h> You can contribute to both of them
[20:50] <letozaf> Let's say that if you have a laptop
[20:50] <letozaf> it is a good idea to contribute as you will help Ubuntu work
[20:50] <letozaf> on many different hardware
[20:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[20:51] <letozaf> whith laptop testing you help test Ubuntu on a particular hardware
[20:51] <letozaf> with ISO tracker testing you test the ISO, but it is not always tested on hardware but also on virtual machines
[20:51] <letozaf> so hardware independetn
[20:51] <letozaf> independent
[20:53] <letozaf> then if your hardware profile is in Ubuntu Friendly websit
[20:53] <letozaf> website people can have a look at what hardware Ubuntu works on
[20:54] <primes2h> So, if there are no more questions we will continue talking about the fun part: testing! on the second session at 21:00 UTC same channel
[20:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/07/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[21:02] <letozaf> Hello everyone!
[21:03] <letozaf> Welcome to the second session on laptop testing.
[21:04] <letozaf> So, after having set up everything as explained in the previous session  lets start the fun part: TESTING :D
[21:05] <letozaf> To start testing, first of all go to the Laptop Tracker website at http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com/.
[21:05] <letozaf> You will have to choose a milestone from the list, for instance “Quantal Final”  or “Raring Cadence Week 2”,
[21:06] <letozaf> depending on what it’s available for testing (look at the “status” column  “Testing”  indicates  what has to be tested and  “Released” indicates what does not as it has been released)
[21:07] <letozaf> http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[21:07] <letozaf> Once you have chosen the milestone you will have to select the correct image that corresponds to your computer’s architecture from another list:
[21:08] <letozaf> http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/248/builds
[21:08] <letozaf> So, for example, if you have a 64 bit laptop you need to click on the small icon (CD with a green arrow) next to the “Ubuntu Desktop amd64” product.
[21:08] <letozaf> After clicking on it, you’ll be on the ISO image download page.
[21:09] <letozaf> Click on the first link you find on the list and you will be able to download the ISO.
[21:09] <letozaf> There is a quicker way to do this using zsync, but maybe we will explain this later if we have time.
[21:09] <letozaf> Generally speaking, updated daily images of the current development release are found at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/.
[21:10] <primes2h> Once you have downloaded the image you have two options:
[21:10] <primes2h> 1 - Put the ISO on a DVD or a USB key and boot your laptop from them to perform testing in a “live environment”.
[21:11] <primes2h> 2 - Install the ISO on your laptop using a separate partition of you hard drive.
[21:11] <primes2h> If you are new to this, you don’t feel comfortable on partitioning your hard drive or you don’t have much time available to test, go for option number 1.
[21:12] <primes2h> In a live environment you can successfully run all scheduled testcases except the hibernate one (that needs a real installation to run).
[21:12] <primes2h> The second option needs a separate partition of you hard drive just for testing so you won’t mess up the existing Ubuntu that is already on it :-D
[21:13] <primes2h> Anyway remember that  installing a development release on a production machine is
[21:13] <primes2h> usually not recommended if you don’t know what you are doing, development releases can “break things”, so be careful.
[21:14] <letozaf> Once you have booted Ubuntu, it’s time to start testing!
[21:14] <letozaf> You need to go back to the Laptop Testing tracker at http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com/
[21:14] <letozaf> and log in using your launchpad credentials, otherwise you will not be able to submit your test results.
[21:15] <letozaf> Reporting Results and Filling Testcases
[21:15] <letozaf> As you did before select the milestone (e.g. Raring Cadence Week 2), then click on  your architecture product link for example Ubuntu Desktop amd64.
[21:16] <letozaf> You will see list of testcases to carry out ordered by category  like: Audio, Connectivity, I/O and so on.:
[21:16] <letozaf> http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/248/builds/29797/testcases
[21:17] <letozaf> If you want to be notified when new images are available for testing
[21:17] <letozaf> you can select the  testcase checkboxes you are interested in and then click on the subscribe button at the end of the page under “Actions”
[21:17] <letozaf> This way you will be notified by email when an image is ready for testing.
[21:18] <SergioMeneses> You now need to follow the testcase instructions and carry out the tests one by one reporting the results
[21:18] <SergioMeneses> (“Passed”, “Failed” or if it is taking long you click on “In progress” so others know that you are carrying out the test).
[21:19] <SergioMeneses> http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/248/builds/29797/testcases/1467/results
[21:19] <SergioMeneses> In the machine field you must copy and paste the link to your hardware profile
[21:19] <SergioMeneses> the one you created on a wiki page we spoke about in the previous classroom session ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergioMeneses/AcerAspire4750 )
[21:20] <SergioMeneses> If you select “Failed” you have to indicate one or more bug numbers reported on Launchpad otherwise you will not be able submit your result.
[21:21] <primes2h> Take a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop/Procedures for more detailed information on what just said.
[21:22] <primes2h> you can find more information about testing at our wiki page:
[21:22] <primes2h> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop
[21:22] <primes2h> and you can meet us in #ubuntu-quality on the Freenode network.
[21:23] <letozaf> Remember: The Laptop Testing Team is open to anyone who would like to provide  important hardware information about their laptops and help us make Ubuntu work on a wide range of hardware,
[21:26] <letozaf> We spoke about how getting the ISO for putting it on a live USB key or a DVD
[21:27] <letozaf> the best way to download an ISO is using zsync
[21:27] <letozaf> Zsync is very practical and fast for downloading ISO’s as it downloads only the parts of a file that are changed, so as to avoid downloading a full copy every time.
[21:28] <letozaf> Since the daily ISOs generally change quite little, it can be processed quite quickly
[21:28] <letozaf> zsync also performs a checksum comparison making it possible to change the flavour of the ISO (e.g. you have an ISO of Ubuntu and you want to change it on Kubuntu. Simply copy/paste the right line for Kubuntu and it will download just the parts that differs from the two versions).
[21:29] <letozaf> Ubuntu archives provide .zsync files using quite similar URIs about the various flavours. For example:
[21:29] <letozaf> zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/raring-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
[21:30] <letozaf> will sync the server's daily unstable raring (13.04) desktop image (for i386) to your local system with an older desktop image already stored on your hard drive.
[21:31] <letozaf> For more information on how to use it go to:
[21:31] <letozaf> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ZsyncCdImage
[21:32] <letozaf> has anyone got questions ?
[21:38] <primes2h> There are no questions, so thanks a lot to all you guys!
[21:38] <primes2h> We hope to see you soon
[21:38] <letozaf> primes2h, there is a question
[21:41] <ClassBot> balloons asked: When do you plan to have a testing event again?
[21:43] <SergioMeneses> balloons, I think when the ubuntu-classroom-team invite us again :D
[21:43] <primes2h> Soon. 12.04.2 is on the way and
[21:44] <primes2h> and as soon as Raring beta1 is approaching
[21:45] <primes2h> we'll start do extensive  testing
[21:49] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Are there recommended times to do testing, or can I just download an ISO any random night I have time and give it a try? :)
[21:50] <primes2h> In general you can use this cadence reference page if you need to : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cadence
[21:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:51] <primes2h> but the best is to subscribe yourself for email notification in the laptop tracker
[21:51] <primes2h> so you'll be notified when a new image is ready to be tested.
[21:52] <letozaf> if you look at the laptop testing tracker
[21:53] <letozaf> the status column tells you if we are currently testing
[21:53] <letozaf> or if it has been released
[21:54] <letozaf> so until you find the testing status you can test, then when testing is over you will find
[21:54] <letozaf> the status "released"
[21:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[21:58] <primes2h> I think there aren't more question. So thanks a lot to you guys! I hope to see you soon
[21:59] <letozaf> bye to everyone and come and join the fun on the laptop testing team
[21:59] <SergioMeneses> ok guys thanks for coming :D
[21:59] <letozaf> :)
[21:59] <SergioMeneses>  \o/
[21:59] <primes2h> :-)
[21:59] <SergioMeneses> and thank to the Ubuntu Classroom Team: pleia2 and JoseeAntonioR
[21:59] <letozaf> yes thank you to pleia2 and JoseeAntonioR and balloons too
[22:00] <primes2h> Agree, thanks to all
[22:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/07/%23ubuntu-classroom.html


[00:01] <Soojin> ok , good to know
[00:01] <Soojin> had me shitting my pants there for a while:)
[00:03] <KM0201> Soojin: if you just want a solid color background, just create a "wallpaper" in GIMP or something, and use it as a wallpaper
[00:14] <Soojin> ok:)
[00:15] <Soojin> do you know if theres any wallpaper randomizer app that works with lubuntu?.
[00:15] <KM0201> you mean where it cycles wallpapers?
[00:16] <Soojin> yup
[00:16] <Soojin> where you can set per day or per hour
[00:16] <KM0201> um, i don't think so.. i know there's one that works w/ Nautilus/Ubuntu... but i highly doubt it works w/ lxde and pcmanfm
[00:16] <Soojin> k
[00:17] <KM0201> http://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1558   Soojin
[00:19] <Soojin> hmm i'll give that a go , thanks
[00:55] <Unit193> IdleOne: Really? ;)
[00:56] <IdleOne> Unit193: yeah really
[00:56] <IdleOne> :P
[10:01] <ActionParsnip> quiet today
[16:03] <Soojin> is there a way to turn off these notifications that various apps output http://i.imgur.com/tbsdO.png
[16:04] <Soojin> mplayer does it when i click on a new video file and filezilla does it when a file has been finished
[16:05] <Soojin> eh never mind , i'm stupid:)
[16:05] <Soojin> I thought it was inside lubuntu where you had to tick this off but it seems they all have their own options for turning it off.
[17:43] <silverarrow> hi
[17:43] <silverarrow> is anyone using libre office in lubuntu?
[19:41] <silverarrow1> hi
[19:42] <silverarrow1> does anyone know if the chromium local media player for chromium would work in lubuntu?
[19:45] <silverarrow1> apparently JW player is not available for lubuntu
[19:45] <silverarrow1> I am looking for a flash player replacer for chromium
[23:29] <Soojin> hmm gnome mplayer has a slight habit of locking the pc
[23:34] <Soojin> it might be a issue with mplayer in itself though , when it bumps into video clips it doesn't quite like.


[04:30] <jam> mroning all
[08:18] <Chipaca> good morning!
[08:21]  * Chipaca stayed up too late and now needs more coffee
[08:40] <Chipaca> is there a good reason for _is_our_unit and _is_our_app to be called like that, as opposed to something more unified like _is_ours (or _is_self)?
[08:46] <niemeyer> Morning Chipaca
[08:47] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Reviews mainly.. it wasn't easy to get to those names either :)
[08:48] <jam> morning Chipaca and niemeyer
[08:48] <niemeyer> "Is ours what?" ""self is something else" and it goes on..
[08:48] <niemeyer> Morning jam
[08:53] <jam> Chipaca, niemeyer : if the parameter of 'juju debug-code' is now '--at', should the env var still be JUJU_BREAKPOINT?
[08:53] <jam> 'JUJU_DEBUG_AT' or something along those lines feels like it matches better.
[08:54] <jam> The doc is also now significantly out of date, and I'm not sure I was around for all the conversations.
[08:54] <jam> I pretty much just understood changing "juju debug-hook --breakpoint" to "juju debug-code --at" but the rest seem to stay the same.
[08:56] <niemeyer> Sounds reasonable and generic enough to be useful in multiple ways.. can't think of better alternatives right away
[08:56] <Chipaca> niemeyer: are you talking about AT or about BREAKPOINT there
[08:56] <Chipaca> can be read both ways
[08:57] <niemeyer> The suggestion
[08:57] <niemeyer> (AT)
[10:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> Chipaca: added a link to the spec doc here https://trello.com/c/vcZTwoOI
[10:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> I am going to update it with more details
[10:31] <niemeyer> We had an agreement to have 160 as the line length
[10:32] <niemeyer> I also asked to have "sandbox" into the git ignore list
[10:32] <niemeyer> Looks like both have been undone by 907672c0901168903bf17c94165b034881bd35bd
[10:34] <niemeyer> Looking at the diff here https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/162/files
[10:34] <niemeyer> The new lines on the right are consistently less readable
[10:35] <niemeyer> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5g77t1LD/image.png
[10:35] <niemeyer> Do you really prefer reading the one on the right?
[10:35] <niemeyer> There are several of those...
[10:35] <niemeyer> Can we please revert this PR?
[10:35] <Chipaca> niemeyer: 160 is much too wide
[10:36] <niemeyer> Chipaca: I don't care about the number as much as I care about the result
[10:36] <Chipaca> niemeyer: yes, i prefer the one on the right
[10:36] <niemeyer> We can make it 1000 is if it looks better
[10:36] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Really!? Are you seriously saying you read that completely broken up text and code better than what you have on the left side?
[10:36] <Chipaca> niemeyer: and sanbox is still in git ignore
[10:39] <Chipaca> niemeyer: it's unclear what sandbox is in the gitignore for, but it's still there
[10:39] <Chipaca> without a comment or anything it's a prime candidate for cleanup
[10:39] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Both the line length and sandbox have been discussed before you were in the team
[10:40] <niemeyer> Chipaca: The line length is 160 precisely so that it reads better.. we got several examples and decided that in practice it ends up looking nicer with longer lines than with arbitrarily broken down indentations
[10:40] <niemeyer> Chipaca: The sandbox is a directory I personally use to put things that should not be in the tree
[10:46] <jam> So for my personal use, I prefer narrower than 160 for line lengths, as I tend to have 2 or 3 files open concurrently (one for the code, one for the tests of the code, sometimes another as a reference for the code I'm implementing)
[10:47] <jam> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#maximum-line-length itself recommends up to 99 chars,
[10:47] <jam> I don't prefer the 'indent to where the (' opens, as it tends to waste a lot of horizontal space
[10:48] <niemeyer> jam: How do broken down lines look like in your terminal?  Does it fit more than 99 chars, or is it broken down further?
[10:48] <jam> so I tend to do the return immediately after the (which causes it to indent just a single extra indent level)
[10:48] <niemeyer> jam: Because reviews look terrible..  it's neither 99 nor 160
[10:48] <niemeyer> jam: Which means we get the manual line breaking, and then the enforced breaking on top of that either way
[10:49] <niemeyer> jam: (as we had discussed many months ago)
[10:49] <jam> I believe the actual line length discussion predates me as well.
[10:50] <jam> In my editor, it tends to horizontal scroll, in a terminal, it wraps the line
[10:50] <niemeyer> jam: Or maybe it just wasn't interesting enough to be talking in the channel.. ;)
[10:52] <niemeyer> jam: Okay, so 99 will *also* wrap and horizontal scroll..
[10:56] <niemeyer> Yeah, just barely.. conversation happened on Oct 3rd, you joined on Oct 2nd
[11:01] <jam> fair enough. I remember it being 160, but certainly didn't have a strong rationale for defending it staying there.
[11:03] <niemeyer> It's okay..  the rationale is not super insightful other than we looked at code and it looked worse when indenting too much
[11:03] <niemeyer> Reading the delta seems to confirm that still..
[11:04] <niemeyer> Sometimes it's like this:
[11:04] <niemeyer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LDdXKI2x/
[11:04] <niemeyer> Sometimes like that:
[11:05] <niemeyer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nIyHc8G3/
[11:05] <niemeyer> And sometimes this:
[11:05] <niemeyer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/1ex3TAbJ/
[11:06] <niemeyer> Versus stuff like this:
[11:06] <niemeyer> -                        raise RuntimeError("StoredState shared by {}.{} and {}.{}".format(parent_tname, self.attr_name, parent_tname, attr_name))
[11:07] <niemeyer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/cy32xfyL/
[11:08] <niemeyer> I easily prefer the latter, maybe because I'm unusual in that I don't appreciate jumping my eyes around  with no semantic involved and do appreciate its tightness. We can discuss further in the standup.
[11:08] <jam> so personally, while I don't prefer arbitrarily wrapped differently each time, I do prefer the wrapped form. I think it is because it decreases the linear distance
[11:09] <jam> I think there was also an issue with github rendering, at least IIRC that is what Chipaca put the PR up for.
[11:09] <niemeyer> The screenshot I first posted above was from GH
[11:15] <facubatista> Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:16] <facubatista> So, you decided to go -vvvvvv mode the day I was off? :p
[11:16]  * facubatista has a lot of stuff to read
[11:16] <Chipaca> facubatista: it's _because_ you were off
[11:16] <Chipaca> facubatista: it's you that's been inhibiting us
[11:17]  * Chipaca just out of a meeting and needs to read up
[11:17] <facubatista> :)
[11:17] <jam> I run a 27" monitor, and while I can go wider, I tend not to maximize browser windows because they are too wide.
[11:18] <jam> In my normal width: https://imgur.com/cSVJFWU the old one wraps but the new one doesn't.
[11:18] <niemeyer> jam: To be clear, my point was never that the monitor was wide enough to fit 160 chars
[11:18] <jam> If I max the window, neither wraps https://imgur.com/kfjK3IR
[11:18] <jam> but I actually find it hard to review at that size, because the two sides are too far apart
[11:18] <jam> it is hard visually to follow from left to right for me
[11:18] <niemeyer> jam: The point is rather that this is not a great way to force the formatting of code, because in practice it ends up looking worse in multiple places
[11:19] <jam> and if I make it narrow https://imgur.com/1YEpDMK it looks awful in the new ay
[11:19] <niemeyer> jam: Extremely long lines can usually be reorganized to not be extremely long by using proper coding practices
[11:19] <niemeyer> jam: And we can always *choose* to break lines down where really appropriate
[11:19] <niemeyer> jam: What the limit does is to force people to break them down whatever it takes.. and we end up with the stuff mentioned
[11:21] <niemeyer> That's subjective, though.. so let's just raise that up in the next standup and see where the team stands
[11:22] <niemeyer> jam: This "narrow" view is actually what I get naturally over here, and I'm on a high-resolution (4k) 14 inch monitor
[11:24] <jam> for whatever reason my 'natural' window size is about 1200x1200 pix. it fits most content cleanly (bugs on launchpad, gogole docs, etc)
[11:26] <niemeyer> My resolution is 2560x1440 (2k actually)
[11:26] <niemeyer> I use a tiling WM, but for that sort of content the window is always full screen
[11:32] <jam> Chipaca, facubatista : I tried to encapsulate the discussions that happened yesterday around "Debugging live charms" and brought up a couple more questions
[11:32] <jam> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zKwzo26bNVFgohaRB_kdUCsFPY3OcjfcpQklGpkOHpc/edit#
[11:32] <jam> I also have 'juju debug-code' sketched up, testing it now.
[11:33] <facubatista> jam, will go there when I finish all the reading here, 5'
[11:46] <facubatista> I don't like this breaking lines style:
[11:46] <facubatista>   some_call(foobar,
[11:46] <facubatista>             other,
[11:47] <facubatista> not only because the totally wasted space there, but also because it's indented to (75% chance) a weird column
[11:47] <facubatista> and pathologically leads to code like this: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/fb7XW8yJWx/
[11:48] <facubatista> niemeyer, for me code at the left here is totally broken: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5g77t1LD/image.png
[11:49] <niemeyer> facubatista: Broken in which sense? You're probably not using that word in ways I normally read it :)
[11:50] <niemeyer> Dmitrii-Sh: https://github.com/canonical/cockroachdb-operator/pull/1 has an initial review
[11:50] <facubatista> the idea is also to not see it as the right, never, that's why a sensible value for column limit like 99 is thought to have it not too wide to have those line breaks
[11:51] <facubatista> niemeyer, I mean, my eyes can not parse that; the moment I have a line that wraps and gets too long, I lose the identation
[11:51] <niemeyer> facubatista: Agreed.. and that's my main concern, to be clear. 160 is an arbitrary number to prevent such formatting.. I don't have anything locally that would make 160 special.
[11:51] <niemeyer> facubatista: But, that formatting in the right is what I consistently get..
[11:52] <niemeyer> I probably need a wider monitor, which is ironic given that I'm the one advocating for wider lines
[11:52] <Dmitrii-Sh> thanks, also submitted the tls-certificates interface for review https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/210
[11:52] <niemeyer> ANyway, lunch time here
[11:52] <niemeyer> And we have a meeting in just a few
[11:52] <niemeyer> See you soon
[11:52] <Dmitrii-Sh> need to figure out what to do about python-cryptography for pull/210
[11:54] <facubatista> aghhh, canonical's pastebin messes with the identation
[11:55] <facubatista> niemeyer, btw, what you see on the right there is also because it's indented where the parenthesis break! that should be like this: http://linkode.org/#A3zKfjmPofCP2jgBR5eo5
[11:55] <facubatista> (or like the second version there)
[11:58] <jam> facubatista, I also prefer that wrapping
[12:20] <facubatista> niemeyer, stub, regarding the surprising json key: https://bugs.python.org/issue34972
[12:23] <jam> facubatista, "its how the format works", in that it doesn't support ints for keys, not that it treats ints as strings...
[12:23] <jam> IMO
[12:24] <facubatista> jam, yes, it was surprising for me too! I actually found the issue when going to report the issue, a couple of months ago :)
[12:24]  * facubatista had it fresh because of that
[12:28] <facubatista> jam, thanks for the massive editing in the Debugger doc
[12:29] <jam> facubatista, It ended a bit ugly, but I was hoping to show the changes as discussed, and make sure it was clear what was changing.
[12:29] <facubatista> jam, yes, it's way better for me to see that, instead of having to read everything and diff current text to what was in my memory
[14:38] <narinderguptamac> Hello all
[14:39] <facubatista> hello narinderguptamac
[14:41] <narinderguptamac> facubatista, was taking to Dmitri about peer relation and got it cleared that any peer event will fire after start event
[14:44] <facubatista> narinderguptamac, nice!
[15:14]  * facubatista -> lunch
[15:24] <crodriguez> hello hello
[15:25] <crodriguez> anyone tried to attach secrets with this new feature from juju 2.8? https://discourse.juju.is/t/k8s-spec-v3-changes/2698. It doesn't work for me and I'm unsure if it points to juju or the framework itself
[15:28] <crodriguez> also, is there an example somewhere with the import of the k8s yaml manifest in the charm.py, instead of having to write the spec in a yaml format ourselves?  I believe calvin did it for his cdk-cats charm, but I don't think it was fully functional
[15:37] <Chipaca> crodriguez: o/!
[15:38] <Chipaca> crodriguez: we haven't done the work to support the new secrets thing AFAIK
[15:38] <Chipaca> crodriguez: we will shortly
[15:39] <crodriguez> Chipaca: aah ok then I'll wait before integrating that. Thanks! Is there a newsletter / discourse / etc. where updates, new features, etc are published?
[15:41] <jam> Chipaca, crodriguez : so any pod spec that they give us we pass on through, I think you're crossing 2 different things.
[15:41] <jam> crodriguez, the first thing that stands out from the thread is making sure your pod spec is version 3, beyond that *I* don't know what the values of the fields should be.
[15:42] <jam> crodriguez, the actual bug you have is in your code, though
[15:42] <jam> application-mssql: 10:15:33 DEBUG unit.mssql/0.config-changed if self.state.spec != new_spec:
[15:42] <jam> that sais you are looking at 'self.state.spec' but you never initialized the field
[15:42] <jam> crodriguez, you'll want to have something like "self.state.set_default(spec=None)" in your charm's __init__.py
[15:42] <jam> sorry def __init__():
[15:43] <jam> crodriguez, I'm actually past EOD here, but if you can put your actual code somewhere we can give you feedback on it.
[15:45] <crodriguez> thank you jam! I'll look into the init section of my charm... it might be missing things related to updates have been made to the operator framework. My code is here https://github.com/camille-rodriguez/charm-mssql/tree/add-secret , feel free to look at it tomorr
[15:46] <crodriguez> tomorrow*. I'll check the state of the spec like you mentionned
[15:48] <Chipaca> crodriguez: what is _write_state in that code?
[15:50] <jam> crodriguez, yeah, I think you used to have initialization in _write_state that was called by on_install, but when you got rid of that, you removed your initialization
[15:51] <crodriguez> mhh cause on_install wasn't working until recently. Most of that code was written with the operator framework in late december/early jan, and I'm getting back to it now. I need to clean the on_start if on_install is the right way to go now
[15:52] <jam> crodriguez, so in __init__ having it do self.state.set_default() is the recommended way
[15:52] <jam> that way it is guaranteed to happen even after an upgrade/etc.
[15:52] <crodriguez> okay I'll add that
[15:52] <jam> but also won't ever overwrite the values that you've actually set.
[15:54] <Chipaca> jam: you go have a good evening now :)
[15:54] <jam> Chipaca, well, I have to hang around to get my PR reviewed. Might as well offer some tech support.
[15:55] <Chipaca> aw
[15:55] <crodriguez> mmh  "AttributeError: attribute 'set_default' is not stored"
[15:56] <niemeyer> defaultS?
[15:56] <niemeyer> Hi Camille :)
[15:56] <jam> niemeyer, crodriguez : its 'set_default' but it sounds like you have an out-of-date copy of ops
[15:57] <niemeyer> I'm not 100% sure as it's been a few weeks, but that's what came to mind when you mentioned the error
[15:57] <jam> if you're using submodules you'll need to 'git pull' in the subdir.
[15:57] <niemeyer> Ah, and jam just proved me wrong.. efficiency! :)
[15:59] <crodriguez> in the operator folder? it doesn't have info on the upstream repo
[15:59] <crodriguez> I thought it was a command like update submodules or something similar..
[16:03] <Dmitrii-Sh> crodriguez: if you have submodules in your repository, you can use this to update all of them: git submodule update --recursive --remote
[16:03] <Dmitrii-Sh> but a prerequisite to that is actually adding it
[16:03] <Dmitrii-Sh> git submodule add https://github.com/canonical/operator mod/operator
[16:04] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, ah, the --remote is the trick that I didn't realize so always just did 'git pull' which worked for me.
[16:04] <crodriguez> okay that recursive update command worked, thanks. I moved on to another bug with the framework haha
[16:05] <crodriguez> well with my code
[16:05] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: yes it's not very intuitive which reminds me of https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/git_2x.png
[16:06] <Dmitrii-Sh> crodriguez: what is it? Can I help?
[16:06] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, git submodule update --help isn't particularly... helpful
[16:07] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: heh, it's rather "--quiet"
[16:07] <crodriguez> Are we supposed to use the on_install or the on_start hook now? or both? install being for the first deploy, and start for if you restart the nodes?
[16:11] <crodriguez> so if I change my pod_spec version to 3, the 'rules' and 'global' keywords are not recognised anymore. Is that from a change in the framework or in juju?
[16:11] <crodriguez> lol sorry I'm bombing y'all with questions
[16:12] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1854635 It's still "start" for now while we use 2.7. This fix was committed to 2.8 for k8s charms to get the install event
[16:12] <Dmitrii-Sh> but then "dispatch" will also be in 2.8 https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11257/files#diff-95b793849a6a72c6122da04f68ecb586
[16:12] <jam> crodriguez, so the framework makes use of on_install to do some initialization stuff, but I wouldn't think you have the information you need to start a pod until after config-changed, and probably around start.
[16:13] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, I actually thought that landed in 2.7.4, doesn't look like the bug was updated.
[16:13] <jam> "bake and land in 2.7.3" is pretty far away from 2.7.4/5 so not sure where its at.
[16:13] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: hmm, I looked at #5 https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1854635/comments/5 for reference, haven't looked at the actual commits
[16:16] <Dmitrii-Sh> crodriguez: regarding keywords: you probably mean "roles". There's an example of a spec here in "QA steps" https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11293 - how different is it to what you have?
[16:18] <crodriguez>         spec = {
[16:18] <crodriguez>             'version': 2,
[16:18] <crodriguez>             'serviceAccount': {
[16:18] <crodriguez>                 'global': True,
[16:18] <crodriguez>                 'rules': [
[16:18] <crodriguez>                     {
[16:18] <crodriguez>                         'apiGroups': ['apps'],
[16:18] <crodriguez>                         'resources': ['statefulsets', 'deployments'],
[16:18] <crodriguez>                         'verbs': ['*'],
[16:18] <crodriguez>                     },
[16:18] <crodriguez>                     {
[16:19] <crodriguez> oops
[16:19] <crodriguez> so in this spec, if I change version to 3, I get this :
[16:19] <crodriguez> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2qFlNy81/
[16:19] <crodriguez> same for unknown field 'rules'
[16:26] <jam> crodriguez, offhand I don't think you're allowed to set global service accounts in a charm. They effect people that aren't in your namespace
[16:27] <jam> I'm not the one who has the definitive answer to that, though.
[16:27] <jam> I know there were discussions
[16:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> the error seems to be coming from the framework though
[16:28] <Dmitrii-Sh> b'ERROR json: unknown field "global"\n'
[16:28] <Dmitrii-Sh> hmm, actually that doesn't look like something we'd emit
[16:29] <Dmitrii-Sh> I just tried using that spec as an input in a unit test and it didn't error out (because we just write to a file)
[16:30] <crodriguez> Hmm. Okay, I'll look more into that. I need to step out for an hour, will circle back about this. Thanks everyone!
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh> version: 3
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh> serviceAccount:
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>   automountServiceAccountToken: true
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>   roles:
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>     - global: true
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>       rules:
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>         - apiGroups: [""]
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>           resources: ["pods"]
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>           verbs: ["get", "watch", "list"]
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>         - nonResourceURLs: ["*"]
[16:31] <Dmitrii-Sh>           verbs: ["*"]
[16:33] <Dmitrii-Sh> crodriguez: it seems like you need to have "global: true" under roles
[16:33] <Dmitrii-Sh> and then rules under roles as well
[16:34] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, ModelError(e.stderr) means it is coming from Juju
[16:37] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, hm, seems v2 is quite a bit different than v3. https://discourse.juju.is/t/updated-podspec-yaml-new-features/2124
[16:37] <jam> vs https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11293
[16:39] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: I think charms need to specify min-juju-version: 2.8.0 and use a v3 spec if they support v3 only
[16:39]  * facubatista is back
[16:39] <Dmitrii-Sh> but this is slightly unfriendly to a user
[16:45] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, so AIUI, you can stick with V2, but the goal is to get to something we want to recommend quickly vs a lot of polish on migration
[16:46] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: agreed, there is nothing restricting the usage of v3 via pod.spec_set AFAIKS
[16:46] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, we need to add 'k8s-spec-set' to the list of 2.8-isms. btw
[16:47] <jam> Chipaca, ^^ juju is recommended a different name for setting the definition of your pod in 2.8
[16:48] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: right, the command got renamed
[16:51] <facubatista> is there a reason we're not sending DEBUG logs from the framework/charms to juju
[16:51] <facubatista> ?
[16:55] <niemeyer> I don't know what behavior you are observing, but the goal is to make debug logs visible if the user asks to see debug logs
[16:56] <Dmitrii-Sh> I originally wanted to use DEBUG: https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/133/commits/2c778fc3f128b088790229bc3cc55bf7f7daedd6#diff-a76991ba26c9c9b312be489400d3f481L21
[16:56] <Dmitrii-Sh> IIRC the reason not to use it was to encourage people not to use "debug" for everything. It would be nice to retrieve the debug level from the level set for a given model but there's no way to do that yet https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1861987
[16:56] <niemeyer> What we don't want is for the norm to be seeing debug logs at all times, otherwise what we have is really info logs
[16:57] <niemeyer> I see debug logs as a fire hose, where even the smallest detail is fine
[16:58] <niemeyer> That's not the kind of thing that should be on by default.. if it is on, we'll learn not to log things at all to not overload people with boring details, and we no longer have debug logs
[16:58] <facubatista> niemeyer, agree with you, that's why I wrote in https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/198 that the logger needs to be in INFO by default (the user can easily change that) -- the problem is that the *handler* is in INFO, and we should be in DEBUG so if the logger is set to debug, those messages will reach Juju
[16:59] <facubatista> *it* should be in DEBUG...
[16:59] <niemeyer> Again, I'm not claiming it's correct.. just that this is what I hope we get
[17:12] <Dmitrii-Sh> I think we should change the JujuLogHandler level to DEBUG. Otherwise even if one overrides the root logger level in the charm, the messages are still filtered at the handler level
[17:13] <Dmitrii-Sh> that would be changing the JujuLogHandler constructor to be like this:     def __init__(self, model_backend, level=logging.DEBUG):
[17:19] <facubatista> Dmitrii-Sh, yeap, that's what issue #198 talks about
[17:23] <niemeyer> Tentatively calling it a day.. o/
[17:26] <tvansteenburgh1> Hi everyone. The Canonical k8s team will soon publish (as a preview release) our first k8s charm based on the operator framework. Source code is at https://github.com/charmed-kubernetes/charm-multus. Feedback welcome.
[17:26] <Chipaca> tvansteenburgh1: ack
[17:28] <Dmitrii-Sh> crodriguez: the charm tvansteenburgh1 has a v3 spec example ^ https://github.com/charmed-kubernetes/charm-multus/blob/master/src/charm.py#L87-L125
[17:28] <Dmitrii-Sh> seems to confirm the theory I had
[17:38] <crodriguez> Dmitrii-Sh: thanks for your help. I will compare and adjust to use the v3
[20:25]  * facubatista eods
[20:38] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/211- found during testing
[22:40] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/212 - would be helpful for progressing #210


[00:53] <dangersalad> hey, so I upgraded my 14.04 install the other day and a bunch of the calf plugins can no longer be found (they were replaced by seemlingly crappier versions) and the UltraAcoustic kit in hydrogen went missing, any ideas what happened?
[02:59] <holstein> dangersalad: you "upgraded"?
[02:59] <holstein> you  mean, from 14.04 to 14.10?
[02:59] <holstein> if you had sources added that added software, such as kxstudio ppa's, you'll need to add them again
[03:00] <holstein> otherwise, if its just a 14.04 update, then, you can go in and see what versions you had, using a package manager like synaptic, and pin whatever versions you want, or load older ones
[09:18] <zgorbyo> hi all
[09:21] <zgorbyo> is there any way to make a window switch to the other monitor when workin in dual display mode ubuntu 14.04?
[09:21] <zgorbyo> i tried compiz but it seems not to work in xfce
[13:21] <zequence> zgorbyo: I would ask around on #xubuntu. There is probably someone there who has more experience in using the XFCE desktop for that
[14:12] <stumpff> hello
[14:15] <caboose885> o/ stumpff
[14:31] <stumpff> does anyone have allready experience with alesis v61 and ubuntu-studio?
[16:23] <usuario_> hi anyone could help me please, I just upgrade ubuntu studio from ubuntu 14.01 but my Fast Track doesn't  sound at all
[16:24] <holstein> usuario_: you upgraded 14.04? to 14.10?.. there is no "ubuntu 14.01"
[16:25] <holstein> or, you installed ubuntu 14.10? and "upgraded" to ubuntustudio 14.10?
[16:25] <usuario_> yes 14.10 to 14.10
[16:25] <holstein> usuario_: ok.. so, 14.10 *is* 14.10.. ubuntustuduio *is* ubuntu.. so, lets go back a few steps here
[16:26] <holstein> did the fast track *ever* work?
[16:26] <usuario_> no never, neither with ubuntu
[16:26] <holstein> usuario_: ok.. so the "upgrade" you reference is irrelevant
[16:27] <holstein> usuario_: so, you are not able to make your USB device work in ubuntu..
[16:27] <usuario_> no
[16:27] <holstein> usuario_: please do this.. *unplug* the USB device, and test normal audio.. see that you get sound
[16:27] <holstein> !audio
[16:27] <holstein> see that you have audio with the integrated audio device
[16:28] <holstein> *then*, if you have sound, plug the USB device in.. and use "pavucontrol".. which should be "pulse audio volume control" in the menu, to select that device
[16:28] <usuario_> ok
[16:28] <holstein> *dont* use JACK, or ardour, or any other software that starts JACK right now
[16:29] <holstein> starting JACK will effectively break your audio right now.. so *dont* do that til you get audio working with out the USB device plugged in, and then, getting normal audio working over the USB device
[16:29] <holstein> i suggest, VLC with a known good audio file.. but, you can use the integrated player
[16:29] <zequence> Which exact model is it?
[16:30] <usuario_> maybe a youtube video? is fast track c400
[16:30] <zequence> It should be fully supported
[16:30] <holstein> usuario_: no.. definetly *not* a youtube video
[16:31] <holstein> usuario_: that unecessarily brings a browser into the scnario, as well as flash or htlm5 support.. no need for that
[16:31] <holstein> usuario_: test with a *known* good audio file.. i have reference tracks for my studio that i know work, and i know how they sound..
[16:32] <usuario_> ok, but I have sound in youtube, I'll try with an mp3 too
[16:35] <holstein> usuario_: after you have sound, hook the USB device up, and use pavucontrol to route the audio you know worked to the USB device
[16:35] <usuario_> mp3 works fine too in vcl
[16:35] <holstein> usuario_: then, use that, and route it with pavucontrol to the USB device
[16:35] <usuario_> ok
[16:36] <usuario_> what is pavucontrol?
[16:36] <holstein> !info pavucontrol
[16:37] <holstein> usuario_: as i said above, its in the menu as pulseaudio volume control
[16:37] <holstein> usuario_: it allows you to route the audio that was working on the internal device to the USB device
[16:42] <usuario_> oh sorry, I have very bad english, but I don't see any pulseaudio or pavu in menu
[16:43] <holstein> usuario_: you can literaly start that application i reference in the terminal using the command i gave
[16:43] <holstein> usuario_: pavucontrol
[16:43] <holstein> usuario_: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/pavucontrol/is  what it looks like
[16:44] <usuario_> ok pavu yet
[16:44] <usuario_> I have it
[16:44] <holstein> so, you get the file playing in vlc, and then route it to the USB device
[16:47] <usuario_> I don't know how
[16:49] <holstein> usuario_: please close pavucontrol, and plug the USB device back into the machine. then open pavucontrol and look for the devie in the dropdown menus
[16:49] <holstein> usuario_: do you see the device listed?
[16:50] <usuario_> the fast track doesnt appears in pavucontrol
[16:50] <holstein> usuario_: here is where i would start..
[16:50] <usuario_> and pavu only have tabs no menus
[16:50] <holstein> usuario_: the fast track is new to you? you bought it used?
[16:51] <usuario_> i used in windows with fl studio
[16:51] <holstein> usuario_: please dont use pavucontrol right now. just close it and play attention here
[16:51] <usuario_> ok
[16:51] <holstein> usuario_: maudio promised you windows support.. they didnt promise you linux support.. they paid a team of professionals to give you windows support.. you are now taking that role on yourself in linux
[16:52] <usuario_> ok
[16:52] <holstein> usuario_: so, if you *know* for certain the device is functioning, i would also test the USB port on the machine.. make sure linux is working with it.. disconnect *any* and *all* hubs.. plug straight into the machine
[16:53] <holstein> usuario_: open a terminal and type "lsusb".. *that* is where you want the fast track to show up first.. you need to see it listed there
[16:53] <holstein> usuario_: try all ports and see that you see the device listed in lsusb.. do you?
[16:55] <usuario_> I have this
[16:55] <usuario_> us 001 Device 004: ID 2232:1006
[16:55] <usuario_> Bus 001 Device 006: ID 0763:2030 Midiman
[16:55] <usuario_> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
[16:55] <usuario_> Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
[16:55] <usuario_> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
[16:55] <usuario_> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
[16:55] <usuario_> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
[16:55] <holstein> !paste | usuario_
[16:55] <holstein> usuario_: i dont know if "midiman" is it.. but its likely not it
[16:56] <holstein> usuario_: the second place to look for the device is in the terminal under "aplay -l" and "arecord -l"
[16:56] <holstein> if you dont see the device listed there, you will get no audio..
[16:58] <holstein> !audio
[16:58] <holstein> !proaudio
[16:58] <holstein> usuario_: i must go.. you can try #xubuntu or #ubuntu or #opensourcemusicians
[16:58] <holstein> usuario_: i suggest just unplugging the usb device, and use the internal device with the audio production tools, to get used to them
[16:58] <usuario_> ok thanks but I have it here
[16:59] <usuario_> tarjeta 1: C400 [Fast Track C400], dispositivo 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
[16:59] <usuario_>   Subdispositivos: 1/1
[16:59] <usuario_>   Subdispositivo #0: subdevice #0
[16:59] <holstein> usuario_: correct.. i read that it should "just work". so, personally, i suggest just unplugging it, and getting used to linux, and the audio production tools
[16:59] <holstein> dont try and learn so much as once
[16:59] <holstein> think of how long you used windows without that usb device hooked up to it
[17:00] <holstein> anyways.. try #opensourcemusicians ..i must run.. i will be back.. cheers
[17:01] <usuario_> ok thanhyou very much
[20:05] <chemist^> hello everyone! i've got a problem...i've installed lmms on ubuntu 14.04 64bit and i'm missing the vestige plugin ... i've read on a couple of forums that the 32bit version has the plugin installed while the 64bit does not.... is there a way to install vestige manually in 64bit version?
[20:05] <holstein> chemist^: multiarch should just let you install it.. is it in the repos?
[20:28] <zequence> chemist^: I would find a forum or channel where lmms users or devs hang out
[20:29] <chemist^> is there another application
[20:29] <chemist^> to load windows vst plugins like lmms? (that gives a gui=
[20:30] <zequence> chemist^: Might be some users at #opensourcemusicians or #kxstudio who could help you better with that
[20:30] <zequence> Not trying to turn you away or anything. Just that I don't often see anyone talking about those things specifically here.
[20:32] <chemist^> ok
[23:06] <studio-user678> 10 things to do after install


[01:08] <Shadow__X> its not fun trying to use live transcoding on a e8400 though
[01:08] <Shadow__X> and by not fun i mean frustrating
[03:51] <Patrickdk> I'm not sure what I'm going do
[03:51] <Patrickdk> I gave up on tv a long time ago
[03:51] <Patrickdk> I only use myth for mythvideo
[03:52] <Kwisher> why not use xbmc?
[03:52] <Patrickdk> there is just nothing that has been on tv in the last several years that even made me partially interested in watching
[03:52] <Patrickdk> cause I already have been using mythtv for the last 10years or so
[03:52] <Patrickdk> well, not 10
[03:53] <Patrickdk> but probably 8
[03:53] <Patrickdk> v0.14
[03:53] <Patrickdk> oh, it is 10years, well, almost 11 :)
[03:54] <Patrickdk> I tried to drop it, and go with dlna
[03:55] <Patrickdk> but dlna frontends all suck, and have horrible video selection menus :(
[03:55] <Patrickdk> so while mythtv is large and overkill, the extra metadata, sorting, filtering, ..., makes it nice


[01:27] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[01:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 16 Jun 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jun 03:00: Documentation Team | 16 Jun 06:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 21 Jun 06:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 23:30: Xubuntu | 22 Jun 06:00: Edubuntu
[01:50] <Seveas> heno, don't let Ubugtu bite you ;)
[01:50] <heno> Seveas: is that a bot or a person?
[01:50] <Seveas> a bot
[01:51] <Hobbsee> there, neither can bite now.
[01:51] <Seveas> heno, to add a meeting: poke the fridge folks
[01:51] <heno> well, the dev meeting has been cancelled. It's correct on the fridge, but wrong here
[01:53] <ogra> @topic
[01:53] <ogra> sad he missed that, else he'd know the next time :)
[01:54] <Seveas> ogra, I don't want him to overload the fridge so it checks once every hour
[01:55] <ogra> yep
[01:55] <ogra> i meant heno with "he" above ;)
[01:56] <Seveas> hehe
[02:30] <sfllaw> @schedule
[02:30] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Jun 17:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 20:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 13:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 21:00: Kubuntu
[04:09] <jjesse> @Agenda Detroit
[04:10] <jjesse> @schedule Detroit
[04:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 15 Jun 13:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu
[06:19] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[06:19] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 15 Jun 19:00: Documentation Team | 15 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu
[09:58] <HedgeMage> hi, all :)
[09:58] <RobinShepheard> hello
[09:59] <jjesse> @schedule Detroit
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | 20 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 21 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 21 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 28 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu
[09:59] <HedgeMage> hi DanielC
[09:59] <DanielC> hi :)
[10:00] <RobinShepheard> hiya DanielC, see you found us okay :-)
[10:00] <DanielC> Yeah.
[10:00] <HedgeMage> I'm sorry that an official agenda never made it out, this meeting was a bit last-minute.
[10:00] <DanielC> What are cookbook meetings anyways? I think they are "help the noob" sessions, is that right?
[10:01] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: not quite, they are a set of meetings to write the help the noob book
[10:01] <HedgeMage> DanielC: not quite... cookbook is a project to write the ultimate "beginner's guide" to edubuntu
[10:01] <HedgeMage> LOL GMTA, RobinShepheard :D
[10:01] <DanielC> ah
[10:01] <RobinShepheard> guess I must be psychic :-)
[10:01] <DanielC> So the purpose is to *write* a cookbook. That makes more sense now.
[10:02] <HedgeMage> :) yep
[10:02] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: GMTA ??
[10:02] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: Great Minds Think Alike :)
[10:02] <RobinShepheard> aahhh
[10:03] <highvoltage> hi there
[10:03] <HedgeMage> Anyhow, since we're agenda-less, I'll at least enumerate some talking points, if you have something to add when I'm done, please do so
[10:03] <HedgeMage> hi highvoltage
[10:03] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: looks a little thin on the ground with the team
[10:03] <RobinShepheard> hiya highvoltage
[10:03] <highvoltage> i'm not part of the cookbook team, but i'll stay up to date with happenings.
[10:04] <DarkElf109> Same here, heh
[10:05] <HedgeMage> Talking points: LaTeX vs. Docbook vote (hopefully swift), discussion of potential re-naming, drafting a new document outline, and divvying up some of the beginnning work.  If we have time, we *might* touch on the edgy+1 publication debate, but that'll most likely get tabled again for later.
[10:05] <HedgeMage> Anyone want to add anything?
[10:05] <RobinShepheard> nope, seems to cover most things
[10:06] <DanielC> DocBook
[10:06] <HedgeMage> Okay, before we vote on LaTeX vs. Docbook, did anyone miss the mailing list discussion and need a recap?
[10:06] <DanielC> If you were writing a math textbook I'd say LaTeX.
[10:06] <DanielC> I did. But I'm not in the team anyways.
[10:06] <HedgeMage> lol
[10:06] <HedgeMage> :)
[10:06] <HedgeMage> well, anyone can vote if they'd like
[10:07] <HedgeMage> we're pretty laid-back at this point
[10:07] <HedgeMage> okay... I'm voting Docbook
[10:07] <DanielC> :-)
[10:07] <HedgeMage> others?
[10:07] <DanielC> DocBook has a much lower barrier to entry and is more apt for non-mathematical documentation.
[10:07] <RobinShepheard> well I don't know much about either but following the discussion docbooks seems to make most sense
[10:08] <HedgeMage> anybody else want to register a vote before it's closed?
[10:08] <HedgeMage> Okay, then, we're going with docbook
[10:08] <DanielC> That was easy...
[10:09] <HedgeMage> yep :)
[10:09] <RobinShepheard> easier than last meet
[10:09] <HedgeMage> I think I was the biggest LaTeX advocate, but the discussion on the mailing list turned me around
[10:10] <HedgeMage> Anyhow, on to the re-naming question... I agree with last meeting's observation that "cookbook" doesn't quite accurately describe this project any more... my recommendation is to start a wiki page for naming suggestions and vote on it at the next meeting (probably about a month from now)
[10:11] <RobinShepheard> I have to say that suggestion sounds fair to me
[10:11] <RobinShepheard> I obviously like my seggestion best but ... :)
[10:11] <HedgeMage> hehe :)
[10:12] <HedgeMage> Okay, now for the hard part, new document outline
[10:12] <HedgeMage> since we have so few people here, I'd like to consider this a "working draft" of sorts... we can always modify later if needed
[10:13] <RobinShepheard> makes sense
[10:13] <HedgeMage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters  <--- This is our last chapter outline, you'll probably want it open for reference.
[10:14] <pygi> hey people
[10:14] <pygi> sorry for being so late
[10:14] <HedgeMage> np
[10:14] <HedgeMage> pygi: we voted in favor of docbook, and decided to start a wiki page to suggest new titles for cookbook to be voted on at our next meeting
[10:14] <HedgeMage> pygi: that's all you missed so far
[10:14] <HedgeMage> that and:
[10:14] <HedgeMage> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters  <--- This is our last chapter outline, you'll probably want it open for reference.
[10:15] <HedgeMage> as we're about to talk about a new outline
[10:15] <pygi> HedgeMage, oki, please continue
[10:17] <HedgeMage> Suggestions from last meeting included: including a small "troubleshooting" section at the end of each applicable chapter, adding a hardware setup and basic networking chapter (or chapters), expanding the app descriptions to include examples of each app's use in a classroom setting, and rarranging the LTSP and stand-alone install parts into three sections each: pre-install, install, and post-install, absorbing some of the "shiny thing
[10:17] <HedgeMage> hmm... that was long, did it get truncated?
[10:18] <RobinShepheard> I got up to shiny thin
[10:18] <DanielC> Last I saw was "shiny thing"
[10:18] <HedgeMage> ...absorbing some of the "shiny things" content into the appropriate post-install sections
[10:18] <devil786> yeah me too
[10:21] <RobinShepheard> seems to sum up the comments last meeting fairly well
[10:21] <HedgeMage> anyone have any comments on any of that? like those suggestions? dislike them? want to steal a piece of my strawberry shortcake? :P
[10:21] <RobinShepheard> strawberry shortcake....mmmmmm nice
[10:22] <HedgeMage> homemade :)
[10:22] <RobinShepheard> how do you want to create the new layout, are we going to create a new page and edit now??
[10:23] <HedgeMage> IMHO, they all sound like good ideas, and the "troubleshooting" suggestion brings up something else I'd like to do: come up with some kind of working template or standard for individual chapters
[10:23] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: go on, what sort of template did you have in mind
[10:24] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: basically just some kind of standard way of making sure we're consistent with headings, etc, and making sure things like the troubleshooting section aren't forgotten
[10:25] <HedgeMage> hi EmxBA :)
[10:25] <EmxBA> hi
[10:25] <RobinShepheard> well I can't argue with that, makes sense
[10:25] <EmxBA> i am a bit late
[10:25] <EmxBA> :)
[10:25] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: if you want an update on what you missed, /msg me or pygi
[10:25] <EmxBA> what are you currently talking about, HedgeMage?
[10:25] <HedgeMage> that way we won't clog the chan like I did last time
[10:25] <EmxBA> ok
[10:25] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: new outline and some sort of spec or template on how to put together a chapter.
[10:26] <RobinShepheard> so with the apps say, start with a description of the app then what it can do and then how to do it for example??
[10:27] <EmxBA> can i help on cookbook?
[10:27] <EmxBA> hi, highvoltage
[10:27] <EmxBA> hi, RobinShepheard, nice to see you
[10:27] <RobinShepheard> hiya EmxBA
[10:27] <highvoltage> hey EmxBA!
[10:27] <RobinShepheard> good to see you too
[10:28] <EmxBA> :)
[10:28] <EmxBA> tnx
[10:29] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: would it be worth finishing each basic chapter with a find more info here section with say links and books in
[10:30] <HedgeMage> Hmmm... or maybe put them throughout the chapter and summarize in some organized manner at the end of the book?
[10:30] <HedgeMage> that's a good idea
[10:30] <EmxBA> all of that should be very simple and understandable, right?
[10:30] <HedgeMage> okay, referencing the old outline...
[10:31] <RobinShepheard> yeah that would make sense dotting them throughout but they might not read the entire chapter and get sidetracked and miss bits
[10:31] <HedgeMage> I'd say Part 1 is pretty good as-is (outline-wise)
[10:31] <HedgeMage> any comments on Part 1 ?
[10:31] <RobinShepheard> none from me
[10:33] <HedgeMage> okay, then, as we move on to Part 2, I'm going to reference parts and chapters as they are on the old outline... the segments inside parts and outside chapters (the pre install and post we talked about) will be referred to as "sections" for the time being, just for clarity's sake
[10:33] <RobinShepheard> okay
[10:33] <EmxBA> ok for me
[10:34] <HedgeMage> So, Part 2 will now have 3 sections: Pre-Install, Install, and Post-Install... sound good?
[10:35] <EmxBA> nice
[10:35] <RobinShepheard> would you include the intro to computer networks and things in pre-install??
[10:35] <EmxBA> now it has  Indroduction, requirements, installation, administration...
[10:36] <RobinShepheard> or would it make sense to have that as a seperate section with just the intro to networking and thinclients in
[10:36] <EmxBA> shouldn't we have administration part in new, Post-Install section
[10:36] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: that's a tough one... I'd definitely put a "hardware set-up" section at the beginning of the pre-install section...
[10:37] <RobinShepheard> agreed but wouldn't this be prior to that
[10:37] <HedgeMage> ...but the networking basics bit might better go in a seperate part (maybe the end of part 1?) with info on how to choose LTSP vs. standalone
[10:37] <RobinShepheard> I was jus ttyping much the same thing I reckon at the end of section 1
[10:37] <HedgeMage> :)
[10:38] <EmxBA> HedgeMage, RobinShepheard, be aware that I am leaving in about 30 minutes, but I want to contribute, I am just waiting for this conversation to ends
[10:38] <HedgeMage> okay, now would "basic networking" and "chosing LTSP or standalone" be one chapter or two seperate ones?
[10:38] <EmxBA> why is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/AboutBook locked
[10:38] <EmxBA> ?
[10:38] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: np, can you /msg me an email address so I can update you if we run late?
[10:38] <EmxBA> Edubuntu is written lower case
[10:39] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: you have my mail on my wiki page, ok
[10:39] <EmxBA> can i just get yours?
[10:39] <HedgeMage> EmxBA<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:39] <EmxBA> ok
[10:39] <EmxBA> and your real name is?
[10:39] <EmxBA> just want to know?
[10:39] <HedgeMage> susan :)
[10:39] <EmxBA> ok
[10:40] <EmxBA> I am Emir :)
[10:40] <RobinShepheard> I would think 2 chapters, depending on how long you want them
[10:40] <HedgeMage> sounds good
[10:40] <RobinShepheard> 'networking made simple' and 'computer options'
[10:40] <RobinShepheard> well maybe
[10:41] <HedgeMage> Maybe "Networking Basics" and "Choosing an Install Type" ??
[10:41] <RobinShepheard> definately more professional
[10:41] <RobinShepheard> you win
[10:41] <HedgeMage> hehe
[10:41] <EmxBA> in chapter two, administration and security should be merged into post-install (maybe post-install configuration and etc.)
[10:41] <EmxBA> do you agree?
[10:41] <HedgeMage> Okay, back to Part 2
[10:42] <RobinShepheard> yeah I agree with that
[10:42] <pygi> EmxBA, please be quiet
[10:42] <pygi> HedgeMage is leading the meeting
[10:42] <EmxBA> pygi, OK, I'll calm down :)
[10:42] <HedgeMage> hehe :)
[10:42] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: at least youre excited :D
[10:42] <HedgeMage> intro and hardware reqs would be pre-install, install would go in install...
[10:43] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: well, not really excited, I am just very interested in Edubuntu Cookbook
[10:43] <HedgeMage> pretty much everything else would be "post install"
[10:43] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: that's a good thing! :D
[10:43] <pygi> EmxBA, just be shhh :)
[10:44] <cbx33> I'm late :(
[10:44] <RobinShepheard> yeah I reckon that makes sense  (the layout that is)
[10:44] <HedgeMage> cbx33: np if you need to be updated on what you miss, please grab someone via /msg :)
[10:44] <EmxBA> pygi, if you are quiet, why should I be? I think you wanted to calm me down, not to be so excited :)
[10:45] <HedgeMage> question: should the "security" chapter go in install or post-install?
[10:45] <EmxBA> post-install, or "configuration"
[10:46] <RobinShepheard> I would say post install because you don't really set any security settings during install
[10:46] <DanielC> What does security cover? My first reaction is post-install.
[10:46] <HedgeMage> DanielC: well, it's not written yet, but it should have things to check in LTSP.conf and so on
[10:46] <DanielC> post
[10:46] <EmxBA> I suggest we speak few words about Edubuntu on laptops in "Hardware requirements" or "Post-install" in part 2
[10:46] <EmxBA> ok?
[10:47] <HedgeMage> I'm tempted to put it in install because you really shouldn't let people on the system without reading that stuff, OTOH it probably technically belongs in "post"
[10:47] <RobinShepheard> difficult call
[10:47] <DanielC> good point
[10:47] <EmxBA> i would be glad to write a page about Edubuntu on laptops
[10:47] <HedgeMage> Anyone have any thoughts either way?
[10:48] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: covering what, for example?
[10:48] <RobinShepheard> if you broke install up into 2 chapters physical install and polishing configuration
[10:48] <RobinShepheard> that may cover it
[10:48] <DanielC> Technically I'm confident it is "post". But if we put it there does that mean some people won't read it?
[10:49] <RobinShepheard> maybe DanielC
[10:49] <HedgeMage> that's what I'm afraid of
[10:49] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: i would like to explain how nice Edubuntu works on laptops (in my case, X, function keys, special keys, wireless , everything works), and to explain setting up some parts of these (maybe X or wireless) on laptops if it doesn't work, unlike me
[10:49] <cbx33> hmm
[10:49] <cbx33> it is tricky to get the balance right
[10:50] <cbx33> I suppose really it depends on how large the sections are going to be
[10:50] <cbx33> in a lot of ways
[10:50] <DanielC> I wish we could have two sections called "critical stuff" and "nice to do stuff"; then critical could have a "post install" sub-section.
[10:50] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: interesting... we'll have to figure out where to put it
[10:50] <cbx33> I mean
[10:50] <HedgeMage> DanielC: That might make the organization too cluttered, though
[10:50] <EmxBA> cbx33: if you were talking to me, I would really spend a lot of time for writing a text about laptop configuration
[10:51] <cbx33> this book, is this time going to be much more of a book
[10:51] <EmxBA> anyway, I am chatting with you right now on a laptop :)
[10:51] <cbx33> in that it should be a reference
[10:51] <DanielC> HedgeMage: Yes, so I wouldn't suggest it as stated. Just speaking out-loud really.
[10:51] <RobinShepheard> EmxBA: so am I
[10:51] <cbx33> as well as having setup
[10:51] <DanielC> thinking out loud :)
[10:51] <EmxBA> RobinShepheard: what?
[10:51] <RobinShepheard> could we put it under subheadings in the main installation chapter
[10:52] <RobinShepheard> EmxBA: Dell latitude D600
[10:52] <EmxBA> ok
[10:52] <EmxBA> i have FSC Amilo
[10:52] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: could work.... but which install?  standalone probably, since 99% of laptops will be done that way.
[10:52] <EmxBA> L6825
[10:52] <DanielC> HedgeMage: Maybe two post-install sections: "post install (critical)" and "post install (polish)". Or something along those lines.
[10:52] <RobinShepheard> yeah, that would be the most sensible HedgeMage
[10:53] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: not every laptop; on my friends laptop function keys don't work, he always get resolution 640x480 and his wireless card requires recompiled kernel
[10:53] <EmxBA> and in few days he fixed all of that by manually editing configuration files :)
[10:53] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: you could include it in the main install by doing sub sections on physical and config
[10:54] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: what do you think about that?
[10:54] <HedgeMage> since hardware is already in pre-install I think that would confuse things.
[10:55] <HedgeMage> for now, let's leave security in post-install and make sure to warn of its importance at the end of the install chapter
[10:55] <HedgeMage> we can change that later if needed.
[10:55] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: then i suggest we make special page for laptops and put it somewhere later
[10:55] <EmxBA> when we find out appropriate chapter for that, OK?
[10:56] <HedgeMage> ok
[10:56] <HedgeMage> part 3 will largely be a mirror of part 2's organization, unless anyone has comments about why we should consider doing it differently
[10:57] <EmxBA> so i wil write it, ok? any help would be nice (this counts you too, RobinShepheard ) :)
[10:57] <HedgeMage> okay, on to part 4 and "shiny things"
[10:58] <HedgeMage> a lot of what was in "shiny things" (printing, security updates, etc) has been moved to the two post-install sections
[10:58] <HedgeMage> so, we can merge the rest into part 4
[10:58] <HedgeMage> we'll need to rename part 4, however
[10:58] <HedgeMage> thoughts?
[10:59] <RobinShepheard> I like the using edubuntu name to be honest
[10:59] <RobinShepheard> why change it
[10:59] <RobinShepheard> leave it all as that in my opinion
[10:59] <EmxBA> Edubuntu is really ok
[11:00] <EmxBA> Schoolubuntu or studentubuntu sounds bad :)
[11:00] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: we weren't talking about renaming Edubuntu, we're talking about renaming part IV (4) of the cookbook
[11:01] <HedgeMage> anyhow, "using edubuntu" can stay then since I don't have a better idea either :)
[11:01] <HedgeMage> Okay, I'll volunteer to have the new outline on the wiki within the next 24 hours.
[11:01] <RobinShepheard> well it sums up the chapter nicely as it will go into using all the software and things
[11:01] <EmxBA> HedgeMage: oh, sorry, didn't understand
[11:01] <HedgeMage> so everyone can see it.
[11:02] <HedgeMage> EmxBA: np, mistakes happen
[11:02] <EmxBA> i know :)
[11:02] <EmxBA> just continue
[11:02] <RobinShepheard> ok, anything you would like me to do HedgeMage??
[11:02] <HedgeMage> we're running out of time, so if anyone has comments on the chapter spec, please email the edubuntu-devel list and pygi and I will have it when we hack out a spec.
[11:03] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: once we wrap up here, can you post meeting minutes to edubuntu-devel for me?
[11:03] <RobinShepheard> ok I reckon I can manage that
[11:03] <HedgeMage> awesome!
[11:04] <pygi> HedgeMage, thanks for leading the meeting
[11:04] <HedgeMage> pygi and I will also get with the ubuntu doc people and get ahold of an SVN repo.
[11:04] <pygi> you did it even better then me :)
[11:04] <RobinShepheard> the new wiki page, will that be the same address as the old one??
[11:04] <HedgeMage> if you want an email when we post the SVN info to the wiki, /msg me your email address and I will send you one
[11:05] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: no, but I'll link to it from https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu  (which also doesn't exist atm)
[11:05] <RobinShepheard> ok
[11:05] <HedgeMage> pygi: heh, thanks, you do a good job too!
[11:05] <pygi> HedgeMage, nah, ofcourse I don't :P
[11:05] <HedgeMage> Anyone have anything else before we close the meeting?
[11:06] <RobinShepheard> I will list the link in the email minutes
[11:06] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: thanks!
[11:06] <RobinShepheard> no problem
[11:06] <HedgeMage> going once
[11:06] <HedgeMage> going twice...
[11:06] <pygi> sold
[11:06] <pygi> :)
[11:06] <RobinShepheard> lol
[11:06] <HedgeMage> Meeting over :D
[11:07] <HedgeMage> Thanks everyone for showing up... please subscribe to edubuntu-devel if you haven't already so you can keep up on between-meeting discussions and the date of the next meeting
[11:08] <RobinShepheard> thank you for the hosting of the meeting
[11:08] <HedgeMage> np :)
[11:13] <Spec> I hope they don't actually hack out a spec :-/
[11:14] <pygi> Spec, heh, why is that? :P
[11:14] <EmxB1> sorry
[11:14] <EmxB1> my connection blew out
[11:15] <EmxBA> :( what happened in last few minutes?


[05:38] <xubuntu45w> i need help
[06:09] <glitchd> anyone know why .svg images wont diplay on icons in 16.04?
[06:15] <glitchd> could it be a broken or misconfigured mime type?
[06:24] <glitchd> anyone alive in here..?
[08:02] <glitchd> is it possible to stop the system from switching sound devices when the screen saver activates?
[08:15] <glitchd> does anyone respond to anything in here? wth?..
[08:28] <glitchd> hello?
[08:28] <cfhowlett> yes, you are seen.
[08:29] <glitchd> lol awesome then im just being ignored
[08:29] <glitchd> thats cool
[08:35] <Furkiepurkie> glitchd: or the people that would have an answer to your question arent here, just wait and eventually someone will show up
[08:36] <Furkiepurkie> 'arent here' as in idling/afk
[08:36] <glitchd> rightright
[08:37] <glitchd> just never seem to get a response to nearly anything in here
[08:42] <glitchd> how can i tell ubuntu not to switch sound devices when the screen saver/screen blank activates?
[19:07] <glitchd> anytime i create a new image, weather its a jpg or a png, if i save it to the desktop the icon shows a gear with line through it. but if i clear the thumnail cache and logout/in, it displays fine. what could be the problem?
[19:09] <glitchd> and its specific to if i save it to the desktop, if i save it to my home folder the icon displays fine.
[19:12] <Spass> glitchd: does pressing F5 on the desktop works?
[19:12] <glitchd> Spass, ill check
[19:13] <glitchd> Spass, wtf. yes! my god thats so much simpler
[19:14] <glitchd> Spass, any idea why this happens?
[19:14] <Spass> what icon theme are you using? because my guess is that gear is just a default icon for PNG and JPG in that set, or it's broken
[19:14] <glitchd> elementary i believe
[19:16] <glitchd> elementary xfce darker to be exact
[19:16] <glitchd> i also have another problem with this icon theme that ive been trying to solve
[19:17] <glitchd> here is the link to a picture of the problem https://s21.postimg.org/y6fjyipgn/Untitled.jpg
[19:17] <glitchd> the pictures category shows the same broken gear as the picture files did
[19:18] <glitchd> i can be fixed with a different theme, but i like this theme so id like to keep it
[19:18] <Spass> yes, I tried to help you with this issue last time, but you went away
[19:18] <glitchd> oh..
[19:19] <glitchd> i try not to overstay my welcome in these rooms
[19:19] <Spass> give me a sec, I will tell you what to do
[19:19] <glitchd> Spass, thank you
[19:23] <Spass> ok, first, download this icon https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7em81UWJOWmhNNDQ
[19:24] <glitchd> Spass, got it
[19:24] <Spass> and save it in your main home folder (/home/your_username/image-x-generic.png)
[19:25] <glitchd> done
[19:26] <Spass> then use this command in the terminal
[19:26] <Spass> sudo cp ~/image-x-generic.png /usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce/mimes/16/
[19:27] <glitchd> done
[19:27] <Spass> that's it
[19:28] <glitchd> wow.
[19:28] <glitchd> all the typing and asking ive done, and it was that simple
[19:28] <glitchd> wth..
[19:28] <glitchd> dammit thank you
[19:29] <Spass> np
[19:29] <glitchd> care to try your hand at another problem?
[19:30] <Spass> I don't know what's with that gear icons tho, I checked and I have proper PNG/JPG icons
[19:30] <Spass> but... I have the same problem with Thunar refreshing
[19:30] <glitchd> meh
[19:30] <glitchd> no biggie
[19:30] <glitchd> but that wasnt what i was gonna ask
[19:30] <glitchd> lol
[19:30] <Spass> I just must press F5
[19:31] <Spass> the same thing is with extracting files for example, I must refresh to see the proper folder name of an extracted file
[19:31] <Spass> it could be a Thunar issue in Xubuntu 16.04 but I'm not sure
[19:32] <glitchd> thats what i was thinking
[19:32] <glitchd> just a problem in this release
[19:32] <glitchd> as each release has somekind of stupid problem lol
[19:33] <glitchd> i have a question regarding hdmi sound..
[19:33] <knome> glitchd, you are welcome to contribute and make sure those "stupid problems" do not slip out (:
[19:34] <glitchd> knome, right on
[19:34] <glitchd> knome, i help when i can
[19:35] <glitchd> Spass, care to tackle this hdmi problem, maybe not a problem but a setting perhaps..
[19:36] <Spass> I probably won't be a help with this, but just describe your problem here
[19:36] <glitchd> ok
[19:36] <Spass> maybe someone will know how to solve it
[19:37] <Spass> my suggestion, when nobody replies, just minimize HexChat, and forget about it for some time, then come back and check
[19:37] <glitchd> i use my 50" tv as my monitor. my sound goes to the tv speakers, however, instead of using a screensaver i just kill the screen with a script that calls dkms to kill the power to the screen. when i use this script it reverts the sound back to the laptop
[19:38] <glitchd> id like the sound to stay on the tv so i can have it as background music for whatever im doing
[19:38] <glitchd> even thou it doesnt display anything, thats fine
[19:38] <glitchd> ouch just got cig ash in my eye..
[19:40] <knome> a tv is designed to be used to output both video and audio; basically you can't turn off the connection if you want audio out
[19:40] <knome> you get both
[19:41] <glitchd> knome, hmmm...no way around it?
[19:41] <Spass> I could be shooting blanks here, but what's your default output device in your sound preferences? this is a third tab in that settings window
[19:41] <glitchd> Spass, i have selected the hdmi to be the default, but the problem persists
[19:42] <glitchd> Spass, when i kill the screen it acts as if i unplugged the hdmi cable
[19:42] <knome> glitchd, let me put it a different way... both signals are sent through the hdmi cable... if you tell the computer not to send any signal via hdmi, how could the audio signal get through?
[19:43] <glitchd> knome, dang, that makes much more sense
[19:44] <knome> you could send just black signal to the monitor... or you could buy a speaker that can take in the signal you want it to output
[19:44] <knome> (i understand "buy more hardware" isn't the answer you want, but...)
[19:45] <glitchd> knome, might not be the answer i was looking for, but no i understand why its happening
[19:45] <knome> your tv might have an option to turn video off but keep audio on
[19:45] <glitchd> knome, thank you
[19:45] <glitchd> and Spass thank you also
[19:46] <knome> if you are looking for a long-term solution and don't mind a smallish hardware purchase, a bluetooth speaker (given that your laptop/pc has bluetooth) could be very well worth it in the long run
[19:47] <glitchd> knome, eh not enough of a problem to warrant a purchase
[19:48] <glitchd> if anything i could just switch to a terminal, thats almost the same a a blank screen
[19:49] <glitchd> and its funny that i just now thought of that
[19:51] <glitchd> no matter=)
[19:51] <glitchd> would either of you know how i could get grub to display on my tv instead of only on the laptop?
[19:52] <knome> i think at that point the laptop display is always the primary display at that point, so i'm really not sure
[19:52] <glitchd> heres the weird part
[19:53] <glitchd> i have x86 installed on one partition and x64 installed on another. if i boot the x64 install, then reboot, grub shows on the tv, but not when i boot into and reboot from the x86 install
[19:53] <glitchd> that makes me think its some setting again
[19:54] <knome> did you install the other system when the external monitor was the primary one?
[19:55] <glitchd> i dont believe so
[19:55] <knome> anyway, you can compare the lines starting with "GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT" on /etc/default/grub
[19:58] <glitchd> knome, GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" in both files
[19:59] <knome> this idea is based on http://askubuntu.com/questions/712111/forcing-grub-menu-to-external-monitor-connected-to-laptop-via-hdmi-vga
[19:59] <knome> but please note that this indeed makes the laptop not show grub if you aren't connected via that port
[20:00] <glitchd> wow..maybe i dont want it then
[20:00] <glitchd> that could pose a problem...
[20:01] <glitchd> it just seems super weird that it shows on one install but not the other
[20:03] <Spass> what about this file? ~/.config/monitors.xml
[20:03] <knome> i'm pretty sure it's related to the primary monitor on install time
[20:03] <Spass> maybe here is the difference
[20:03] <knome> grub doesn't read your /home
[20:04] <glitchd> ill check that file right now
[20:05] <knome> you'll just waste your time...
[20:05] <Spass> I will be quiet now :)
[20:05] <knome> even if grub accessed your file system, which it doesn't, it would have absolutely zero idea which /home directory it would read
[20:05] <glitchd> Spass, um..that file does not exist on either install
[20:06] <Spass> maybe it's nvidia related, nevermind
[20:06] <Spass> stupid me
[20:06] <knome> it can't be nvidia related either, as glitchd just said it's different per two installs on the same machine
[20:07] <glitchd> thats why its super weird
[20:07] <glitchd> 16.04.1 for both
[20:07] <knome> i wouldn't say weird, it's likely just a grub configuration issue
[20:07] <Spass> what I mean was a monitor.xml file is related to nvidia
[20:07] <glitchd> they are essentially the same, just different archs
[20:08] <knome> Spass, it isn't, but it's not related to grub either :)
[20:08] <glitchd> the x86 was installed first, then the x64 if that matters
[20:08] <knome> there are many configuration files that don't need to exist if the default/automatical guess is working
[20:09] <Spass> I just though it may be somehow be considered when rebooting from a working system, but yeah... that thought wasn't smart
[20:09] <glitchd> and now that im thinking more about it, i believe i was using the big screen when i installed the x64
[20:09] <knome> there you go
[20:09] <glitchd> how can i track down what to change then?
[20:10] <glitchd> its not super essential, just something id like to change
[20:11] <glitchd> i keep my laptop almost all the way closed and its not right next to me so i have to get up, lift the screen then select the os, its just inconvenient is all
[20:11] <glitchd> and id like to change it if possible
[20:12] <glitchd> if i cant, i guess ill have to wait for 16.10 to come out and reinstall while using the big screen
[20:15] <knome> again, it's most likely grub configuration
[20:17] <glitchd> but it seemed that both grub files were exactly the same except which partitions it was booting from
[20:25] <glitchd> welp i think im done for today
[20:26] <glitchd> thanks again guys
[20:26] <glitchd> your help is and was much appreciated
[20:26] <glitchd> ill probably be back tomorrow to try and hash this out some more
[20:26] <glitchd> until then,
[20:26] <glitchd> adios
[22:36] <bladepipe> how to boot using a gma500 card?
[22:36] <bladepipe> xubuntu crashes with a gma500 card!