[16:00] <rbasak> o/
[16:00] <gnuoy> o/
[16:00] <arges> o/
[16:00] <rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 21 16:00:36 2014 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:00] <kickinz1> \o
[16:00] <rbasak> I see no action points from the last meeting.
[16:00] <rbasak> #topic Utopic Development
[16:01] <rbasak> Release in two days! Are we ready?
[16:01] <caribou> rbasak: shouldn't it be Vivid now ;-) ?
[16:01] <rbasak> Vivid isn't open for development yet :-P
[16:01] <rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
[16:01] <rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
[16:02] <rharper> o/
[16:03] <jamespage> \o
[16:03] <lutostag> o/
[16:03] <rbasak> I think the High and Critical bugs in this list are already being taken care of.
[16:03] <matsubara> o/
[16:03] <rbasak> It looks unlikely that the rest are going to be fixed at this stage of the cycle.
[16:03] <rbasak> #subtopic Blueprints
[16:03] <rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
[16:03] <rbasak> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
[16:04] <rbasak> Can everyone update their blueprints?
[16:04] <rbasak> I see a fair bit left here still.
[16:04] <rbasak> Presumably these are already done or won't make it?
[16:04] <rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
[16:04] <rbasak> caribou: over to you
[16:05] <caribou> rbasak: nothing particular; working on automating kdump-tool testing
[16:05] <rbasak> OK, thanks!
[16:05] <rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
[16:05] <rbasak> psivaa_: around?
[16:06] <psivaa_> rbasak: not much of an update from us
[16:06] <rbasak> OK. Any questions for psivaa_?
[16:06] <rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
[16:06] <smb> Nothing from here.
[16:06] <rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
[16:07] <coreycb> o/
[16:07] <rbasak> OpenStack Summit is coming up of course.
[16:07] <rbasak> Anything else?
[16:07] <rbasak> Discuss EOLing qemu machine types (and legacy roms) (hallyn, rharper)
[16:07] <rbasak> hallyn can't make it, so deferring this until the next meeting.
[16:07] <rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
[16:08] <rbasak> Does anything have anything they'd like to raise?
[16:08] <rharper> rbasak: I'm here if you wanted to discuss the EOLing a bit
[16:08] <rbasak> Sure.
[16:08] <rbasak> Is there a decision we need to make here?
[16:09] <rharper> so background, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QemuPTMigration
[16:09] <rharper> there is a decision w.r.t how long/how far to care the the legacy machine types from previous LTS releases w.r.t do we support live migration from an instance on an old LTS to current release
[16:10] <rharper> there is on-going maint. w.r.t keeping roms around , as well as handling any of the potential issues w.r.t qemu machine imcompatibility  between releases.
[16:10] <rbasak> Can I suggest that this goes to an appropriate mailing list?
[16:10] <rharper> from trusty onward, qemu has a ubuntu_release named machine which will help disambiguate it from the defaults in qemu
[16:10] <rharper> rbasak: indeed
[16:11] <rbasak> It sounds like there are some complicated implications here, and we should make sure that stakeholders have an opportunity to comment.
[16:11] <coreycb> rharper, and maybe to an openstack mailing list
[16:11] <rharper> rbasak: additionally coreycb brought up that this hits openstack upgrades with folks doing a precise -> trusty upgrade
[16:11] <rbasak> coreycb: +1
[16:12] <rbasak> Thanks for summarising the issue.
[16:12] <rharper> sure
[16:12] <coreycb> rharper, upgrades to trusty that are entirely on precise too
[16:12] <rbasak> Shall we leave this for now then, and take it to an ML?
[16:12] <rharper> I think that's best
[16:12] <rbasak> Any other topics for Open Discussion?
[16:12] <coreycb> s/trusty/icehoue above
[16:12] <rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
[16:12] <coreycb> icehouse
[16:13] <rbasak> The next meeting will be on Tue Oct 28 16:00:00 UTC 2014.
[16:13] <rbasak> hallyn will chair.
[16:13] <rbasak> I don't think there's anything on that will clash with that, right?
[16:13] <gnuoy> Norwich beer festival
[16:13] <rbasak> :-)
[16:14] <caribou> haloween ?
[16:14] <rbasak> "Apologies for my absense, I was drinking beer"
[16:14] <rbasak> #endmeeting
[16:14] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 21 16:14:37 2014 UTC.
[16:14] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-21-16.00.moin.txt
[16:14] <gnuoy> thanks rbasak
[16:14] <kickinz1> thanks, rbasak
[16:14] <rharper> rbasak: thanks!
[16:14] <caribou> rbasak: thanks!
[16:15] <matsubara> Thanks rbasak
[16:32] <med_> rbasak, thanks for scrollback!
[19:49] <YoBoY> bonsoir
[19:49] <skellat> YoBoY: Bonsoir comrade
[19:49] <YoBoY> :)
[19:50] <IdrogN> bonsoir
[19:55] <cm-t> bonsoir :)
[19:55] <SergioMeneses> YoBoY, \o
[19:56] <YoBoY> hi SergioMeneses :)
[19:57] <SergioMeneses> hi YoBoY ! how you been?
[19:57] <YoBoY> tired and busy :) and you ?
[19:57] <costales> Hi!
[19:59] <Cytheria> hello guys !
[19:59] <SergioMeneses> YoBoY, like you! jejeje
[19:59] <cm-t> heya !
[19:59] <PabloRubianes> hi YoBoY
[19:59] <skellat> Are we ready to begin the meeting?
[19:59] <PabloRubianes> yes
[19:59] <skellat> #startmeeting Regular LoCo Council Meeting for October 2014
[19:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 21 20:00:07 2014 UTC.  The chair is skellat. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:59] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:00] <skellat> #topic Opening Business
[20:00] <skellat> #subtopic Listing of Sitting Members of LoCo Council
[20:00] <skellat> #info For the avoidance of uncertainty and doubt, it is necessary to list the members of the council who are presently serving active terms.
[20:00] <skellat> #info Marcos Costales, term expiring 2015-04-16
[20:00] <skellat> #info José Antonio Rey, term expiring 2015-10-04
[20:00] <skellat> #info Pablo Rubianes, term expiring 2015-04-16
[20:00] <skellat> #info Sergio Meneses, term expiring 2015-10-04
[20:00] <skellat> #info Stephen Michael Kellat, term expiring 2015-10-04
[20:00] <skellat> #info There is currently one vacant seat on LoCo Council
[20:00] <skellat> #subtopic Roll Call
[20:00] <skellat> At this point we need to proceed with a roll call of LoCo Council members.
[20:00] <skellat> A quorum to transact business during today's meeting is 3.
[20:00] <skellat> During the following vote members of the council should vote "+1" to indicate their presence.
[20:00] <skellat> #voters PabloRubianes SergioMeneses skellat jose costales
[20:00] <meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales jose skellat
[20:00] <skellat> #vote LoCo Council Roll Call (All Members Present To Vote In Favor To Register Attendance)
[20:00] <meetingology> Please vote on: LoCo Council Roll Call (All Members Present To Vote In Favor To Register Attendance)
[20:00] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:00] <skellat> +1
[20:00] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[20:01] <PabloRubianes> +1
[20:01] <meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
[20:01] <SergioMeneses> +1
[20:01] <meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
[20:01] <costales> +1
[20:01] <meetingology> +1 received from costales
[20:02] <skellat> Are there any other members of LoCo Council wishing to indicate their attendance?
[20:02] <skellat> #endvote
[20:02] <meetingology> Voting ended on: LoCo Council Roll Call (All Members Present To Vote In Favor To Register Attendance)
[20:02] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:02] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:02] <skellat> #topic Re-Verification: France
[20:02] <skellat> Before today is a re-verification application from the team in France.  I will call upon the team's representative to speak to their application briefly.  Members of the Council will, of course, have questions to ask as we discuss the matter.
[20:02] <skellat> The application is available for viewing on the wiki infrastructure. -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ReVerificationApplication
[20:03] <skellat> Who is here to speak for the LoCo of France?
[20:03] <IdrogN> yes
[20:03] <cm-t> IdrogN: will talk for us
[20:03] <skellat> Greetings IdrogN
[20:03] <costales> Hi IdrogN! |o/
[20:03] <skellat> Tell us a bit about what is happening in France
[20:04] <IdrogN> pleased to meet you all
[20:04] <skellat> Thank you
[20:05] <IdrogN> First, let me introduce myself, i'm David, the new head of Ubuntu-Fr board (we are a "legal" association)
[20:05] <cm-t> mister president :)
[20:05] <IdrogN> cm-t & yoboy, who are also here, are members of the board too
[20:06] <cm-t> hi
[20:06] <IdrogN> Shall we proceed to the lecture?
[20:06] <skellat> Certainly
[20:07] <IdrogN> You can find our application there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ReVerificationApplication2014
[20:07] <olive> bonsoir
[20:07] <IdrogN> (olive is also a member of the board)
[20:08] <cm-t> (and maybe since the begining of ubuntu-fr if I am not false)
[20:08] <IdrogN> So, as you know, we organise a lot of events. The most important ones are the release party and the Paris Ubuntu Parties
[20:08] <olive> maybe, maybe
[20:09] <PabloRubianes> really nice application
[20:09] <cm-t> oups, i forgot to remove the "we need you",  i remove it asap
[20:09] <IdrogN> We are currently organising the next Ubuntu Party which will be hosted at la Cité des Sciences by mid-november and that occupies us a lot
[20:10] <cm-t> (done, no more ads "we need you")
[20:10] <PabloRubianes> Are you having any problem we can help in?
[20:11] <IdrogN> Next week, there will be the release party for the 14.10. During thisrelease party, we will meet to organise the next Ubuntu Party (UP) and train the volunteers
[20:12] <YoBoY> (this saturday more exactly)
[20:12] <IdrogN> @Pablo: for the next UP ?
[20:12] <meetingology> IdrogN: Error: "Pablo:" is not a valid command.
[20:12] <IdrogN> Pablo: for the next UP?
[20:12] <PabloRubianes> IdrogN: I mean in the team
[20:13] <IdrogN> Pablo : everything seems to be quite ok
[20:14] <SergioMeneses> awesome guys!
[20:14] <skellat> What are your plans for 2015?
[20:15] <IdrogN> As usual, 2 UP (15.4 & 15.10), several meetings & meet-ups with local teams & other association from the Free Software ecosystem
[20:15] <skellat> Excellent
[20:15] <costales> You're in a lot of social networks :)) Which of them is working better for you?
[20:15] <IdrogN> More webcafés in more festivals
[20:16] <IdrogN> twitter mostly
[20:17] <IdrogN> for 2015, we can add that we will try to develop the association by recruiting more volunteers and using new tools to be more efficient
[20:17] <skellat> Excellent.
[20:17] <PabloRubianes> IdrogN: great!
[20:17] <skellat> Fellow Council members, are we ready to vote?
[20:17] <PabloRubianes> yes
[20:17] <costales> Yes
[20:17] <skellat> #vote That the re-verification application of France be approved and that the period of verification be extended for a period of two years from this date.
[20:17] <meetingology> Please vote on: That the re-verification application of France be approved and that the period of verification be extended for a period of two years from this date.
[20:17] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:17] <PabloRubianes> +1 great work
[20:17] <meetingology> +1 great work received from PabloRubianes
[20:18] <costales> +1 This is one of the best applications I've ever seen. Really an awesome work, team! Thanks!!
[20:18] <meetingology> +1 This is one of the best applications I've ever seen. Really an awesome work, team! Thanks!! received from costales
[20:18] <SergioMeneses> +1 congrats :D
[20:18] <meetingology> +1 congrats :D received from SergioMeneses
[20:18] <skellat> +1 an excellent example to be followed
[20:18] <meetingology> +1 an excellent example to be followed received from skellat
[20:18] <skellat> #endvote
[20:18] <meetingology> Voting ended on: That the re-verification application of France be approved and that the period of verification be extended for a period of two years from this date.
[20:18] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:18] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:18] <IdrogN> thank you
[20:18] <PabloRubianes> keep the great work French Team
[20:18] <YoBoY> thanks you everyone for your support :)
[20:18] <skellat> Congratulations to the French team.  We'll be updating things on Launchpad after this meeting concludes.
[20:18] <costales> Congrats team!
[20:18] <cm-t> thanks dear loco council <3, and thank to our new president to lead our lecture :')
[20:19] <skellat> #topic Update on open cases before the LoCo Council
[20:19] <skellat> May I have permission to put in the record a list of our pending verification and re-verification proceedings?
[20:19] <IdrogN> merci à l'équipe :)
[20:19] <cm-t> ^^
[20:20] <PabloRubianes> skellat: yes
[20:20] <skellat> #agreed That information may be placed in the meeting record as to the list of pending LoCo Council proceedings.
[20:20] <skellat> #info LoCo Council presently has before it pending verification and re-verification proceedings for the following LoCo Teams: Mauritius, Finland, Netherlands, Peru, Russia, Serbia.
[20:20] <skellat> #topic The loco-contacts thread "Our teams reject the new LoCo Council policy"
[20:20] <skellat> There are many things relevant to the most recent thread on loco-contacts.
[20:20] <skellat> I will bring up that, in parallel to this, Daniel holbach discussed on ubuntu-community-team various thoughts about recognizing and incorporating non-LoCo groups. -- https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-community-team/2014-October/000044.html
[20:20] <skellat> The original start to this thread is available for reading and the thread did generate some rancor and heated discussion. -- https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2014-October/006791.html
[20:20] <skellat> The new SubLoCo policy is what caused much of the concern in this thread. -- http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2014/09/16/new-subloco-policy/
[20:20] <skellat> I don't want to discuss this for too long.
[20:21] <skellat> Is there anything we can add here today other than taking note of what Mr. Holbach is doing?
[20:22] <PabloRubianes> I think that the new policy is clear as it is
[20:22] <SergioMeneses> everything is there!
[20:22] <PabloRubianes> and have the proper workarounds
[20:22] <nhaines> I recommend that the LoCo Council carefully consider how they represent policies in response to queries on the mailing list.
[20:22] <felipexil> From my point of view, the "exceptions" are not clear, but I don't want to open the discussion here
[20:23] <skellat> Okay
[20:23] <olive> thx
[20:23] <nhaines> For instance, it was insinuated that independant status for LoCo teams of autonomous subregions would be somewhat of an uphill battle.
[20:24] <nhaines> And then later insinuated that it would probably be a rote overview.
[20:24] <costales> Good point nhaines
[20:24] <nhaines> And skellat, you asked that conversation stop on the mailing list because this meeting was the only proper venue, and now you're saying that you don't want to spend much time on it.
[20:25] <skellat> nhaines: Coming up on the agenda will be consideration of requests from the Galician and Asturian teams.
[20:25] <nhaines> It's clear from the actual announced policy that a great deal of thought was put into the general guidelines.
[20:25] <nhaines> So when questions about hypothetical (or not so hypothetical) situations are met with mixed messages, that creates a lack of confidence.
[20:25] <PabloRubianes> let me clear some points here
[20:26] <skellat> nhaines: I do want to ensure we reach the Galician and Asturian requests before 2100 UTC
[20:26] <skellat> That is all
[20:27] <rww> If there wasn't public discussion of this policy before it was established, that probably would have helped decrease confusion. Something to bear in mind for the future.
[20:27] <PabloRubianes> I don't see the confusion
[20:27] <skellat> Ah
[20:27] <skellat> Part of that is bringing Debian paradigms into Ubuntu
[20:28] <rww> PabloRubianes: I think that regardless of the correctness of various emails on loco-contacts@, it's blatantly obvious that some people were confused.
[20:28] <PabloRubianes> if a team don't want to a subteam they can ask to be an independent loco
[20:28] <nhaines> I think the confusion is that the policy (presumably) was designed to address existing LoCos who wanted "official" subteams, and the policy was designed to be an operating guidelines for those teams.
[20:28] <rww> Now, personally I'm fine with the policy, but as a LoCo leader, I'd prefer that future policy not come out of nowhere from a public point of view. Hence, prior discussion.
[20:29] <costales> PabloRubianes, "if a team don't want to a subteam they can ask to be an independent loco". Could we append that to the policy?
[20:29] <PabloRubianes> nhaines: the last 2 sentences of the policy are clearly address for teams who don't want to be sublocos
[20:29] <skellat> "In the event what is considered a sub-team wants to be considered a LoCo, it will need to present a request to the LoCo Council."
[20:29] <skellat> We have two of those requests coming up later in this meeting to address.
[20:30] <PabloRubianes> costales: the policy states "In the event what is considered a sub-team wants to be considered a LoCo, it will need to present a request to the LoCo Council."
[20:30] <PabloRubianes> thats the same!
[20:30] <costales> I didn't read in the last days
[20:30] <SergioMeneses> I don't know if we are missing something but I don't get the point, I saw everything cover with the new policy
[20:30] <costales> ;) sorry
[20:30] <nhaines> Yes, but the fact that alarmed LoCo teams were told "read the policy" instead of being reassured is disappointing.
[20:30] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: the policy is not clear for a group of people, so even in the case it is clear for you, it is obvious that there is a problem
[20:31] <xuacu> I think that exixting LoCos were quite confused about being demoted fron LoCo to SubLoCo ;)
[20:31] <felipexil> as nhaines said, the problem is that the policy was written from a point of view that is not reflected in the policy itsefl
[20:31] <costales> Good point xuacu
[20:31] <PabloRubianes> xuacu: the problem is some existent locos where out of the old policy too
[20:31] <felipexil> there is a lack of context, and the "policy" is going to be interpreted without that point of view
[20:32] <PabloRubianes> we made the new policy to contemplate them and have every loco on the same page
[20:32] <nhaines> So once again, my advice is that the Council carefully consider the response to alarmed community members.  "RTFM" is something the Ubuntu project was founded to eliminate.
[20:32] <PabloRubianes> nhaines: none made RTFM
[20:32] <nhaines> I would be happy to provide links after the meeting.
[20:33] <skellat> No, nhaines, please provide them in the record
[20:33] <PabloRubianes> yes
[20:33] <SergioMeneses> sure
[20:33] <nhaines> Is the LoCo Council willing to delay the Galacian and Asturian requests while I cross-reference my email with the web archives?
[20:34] <PabloRubianes> nhaines:yes
[20:34] <costales> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2014-October/006802.html
[20:34] <nhaines> Then I will do my best to be prompt.
[20:34] <costales> José Antonio Rey: "Please, read the whole policy." Unique phrase
[20:34] <costales> for me it's a RTFM
[20:34] <nhaines> costales: agreed.
[20:34] <PabloRubianes> that's not
[20:34] <xuacu> costales: +1
[20:35] <PabloRubianes> they where reading the first part
[20:35] <PabloRubianes> the end of the policy is where the independent locos are allow
[20:35] <PabloRubianes> the last 2 sentences
[20:35] <felipexil> PabloRubianes... How can you know what the other people were reading?
[20:35] <costales> I didn't like too this: The LoCo Council isn't listen their teams/users
[20:36] <nhaines> "Please read the whole policy" and "read the fucking manual" are functionally identical.
[20:36] <costales> If the users/teams like change something, we have to listen them :)
[20:36] <nhaines> felipexil: it's pretty clear he didn't read the entire policy, but that's no excuse not to clarify.
[20:36] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: because as costales just did they where asking for something the policy states
[20:36] <rww> I think "is the policy okay" and "were there issues with the way discussion proceeded before and after the announcement of the policy" are two different topics.
[20:37] <rww> nhaines is quite clearly talking about the latter. Defending the policy is not addressing that.
[20:37] <nhaines> Yes, the policy seems quite reasonable to me.  A codification of current best practice.
[20:38] <costales> I think we have a lot of teams and it's impossible a rule for all of them :)
[20:39] <skellat> And that is where internal debate among LoCo Council members filtered outward and one person's opposition to a majority vote brings us to today's discussion
[20:40] <rww> amongst other issues, such as lack of prior communication, handling of the ensuing thread after announcement, etc. etc.
[20:40] <nhaines> Which one person opposed which majority vote and how did that lead to this discussion today?
[20:40] <xuacu> skellat: you can't avoid this kind of discussion sooner or later :)
[20:41] <PabloRubianes> wait a sec
[20:41] <PabloRubianes> lets get another angle of this
[20:41] <PabloRubianes> xuacu: for example
[20:41] <PabloRubianes> what do you think is wrong with the policy?
[20:41] <felipexil> And... I would like to point out that the sentence "In the event what is considered a sub-team wants to be considered a LoCo, it will need to present a request to the LoCo Council." is not clear at all
[20:42] <felipexil> "what is considered a sub-team" should be defined
[20:42] <felipexil> (at least, it is not clear for me)
[20:42] <skellat> Okay
[20:42] <xuacu> Pablo: just the point felixepil brings up
[20:42] <nhaines> felipexil: it does seem to indicate that an autonomous region would need to become a subteam to the existing team before asking for consideration.
[20:43] <felipexil> nhaines: +1
[20:43] <felipexil> and, the two first sentences of the policy make this difficult
[20:43] <SergioMeneses> ok let me see if I get the point, you want to have 2 official subteams in the same city, right? ( by instance )
[20:43] <felipexil> Each team will be a country (or state in the United States). We will call this a ‘LoCo’. Each LoCo can have sub-teams. This sub-teams will be created at the will and need of each LoCo.
[20:44] <costales> SergioMeneses, Nobody talked about cities ;)
[20:44] <xuacu> and that begs the next question: could a subLoCo be denied to become a LoCO?
[20:44] <SergioMeneses> costales, city or state or region
[20:44] <costales> SergioMeneses, It's not the same for us
[20:44] <PabloRubianes> xuacu: it depends on the case
[20:45] <xuacu> and where are the guidelines to be accepted or rejected?
[20:46] <felipexil> According to the two first sentences of the policy, only countries can be LoCo, and sub-teams will be created only at "the will and need of that LoCo", and it seems that to be promoted to a "LoCo", it is necessary to be a sub-LoCo. T
[20:46] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: that was the old policy
[20:46] <PabloRubianes> just that
[20:46] <PabloRubianes> so ubuntu-cat or ubuntu-ast were outside the policy
[20:47] <nhaines> There was also a question about how a theoretical Basque LoCo would represent the Basque population found in the US.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2014-October/006847.html
[20:47] <nhaines> I would in turn ask how the Ohio LoCo is representing the interests of the Ohioan population outside of Ohio.
[20:47] <nhaines> But this seems to indicate a predisposition to rejecting autonomous regions looking to become independent LoCos.
[20:48] <costales> Good point too: The Basque LoCo would be in 2 countries
[20:48] <nhaines> costales: a cultural identity with a unique language that happens to straddle two countries that came long later.
[20:49] <PabloRubianes> nhaines costales with that view all the latin america would be one 1 loco
[20:49] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: I copied the text from the new policy...
[20:49] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: the old policy was just "one country one loco"
[20:50] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: yes, but the exception is not clear
[20:50] <PabloRubianes> now we added the rest to let provinces or cities have their loco if they don't want to be part of the national loco
[20:50] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: it is not clear who is a "what is considered a sub-team"
[20:51] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: any team that is not a country loco
[20:51] <SergioMeneses> felipexil, a group of people
[20:51] <PabloRubianes> yes
[20:51] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: SergioMeneses: could that not be clarified in the policy?
[20:52] <nhaines> I rather like the language "In the event that what is or would be considered a sub-team wants to be considered a LoCo".
[20:52] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: SergioMeneses: (remove the "not" in my previous sentence)
[20:52] <costales> PabloRubianes, then, we are treating a team without country as >>> "Sub" << this is bad in itself.
[20:52] <nhaines> The problem is that the new policy immediately states "LoCos not meeting the criteria of country/state teams will be denied verification."
[20:53] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: it could be
[20:54] <PabloRubianes> but there's the fact that the only country that have locos working as independent at the moment is spain
[20:54] <PabloRubianes> but if you feel more confortable with that we can clarified this
[20:55] <costales> I'd like to hear to Quebec, Brittany...
[20:55] <costales> No all people read the mail list
[20:55] <rww> I could point out the United States, but I expect that would just be pedantry ;)
[20:56] <PabloRubianes> rww: USA was the only exception when Locos where created
[20:56] <PabloRubianes> and I think is not fare to have different rules for them
[20:56] <skellat> rww: And the USA is definitely an exception as it a dual system of sovereigns.
[20:56] <rww> PabloRubianes: I'm aware of the history involved, probably more than you are. I was pointing out a slight inaccuracy in your comment.
[20:57] <PabloRubianes> but the new policy give the same posibility to the rest of the world
[20:57] <nhaines> That the LoCo Council knew that Spain had independant LoCos and was still completely unprepared to address their concerns is a little disappointing.
[20:57] <rww> (my concerns, again, don't rest with the policy but the way it was communicated, hence me not really talking right now)
[20:57] <skellat> Right now I don't want to disappoint the Galician and Asturian teams but we're approaching 2057 UTC
[20:58] <skellat> Do they have representatives present to make their requests?
[20:58] <felipexil> skellat: /me from the Galician Team
[20:58] <rww> skellat: remaining unaddressed concerns should go where? List, next meeting...?
[20:58] <xuacu> For Asturian Loco, varela or me
[20:58]  * ivarela too, for Asturian
[20:59] <skellat> rww: We will return to that matter in a few minutes
[20:59] <rww> skellat: thank you
[20:59] <skellat> #topic Requests from the Galician and Asturian teams
[20:59] <skellat> Now that the Galician and Asturian representatives are present, we can proceed.
[20:59] <skellat> The policy, in its essentials, does not stipulate what the request should look like.
[21:00] <felipexil> There was a lot of confussion in the mailing list. It was stated that existing LoCos will remain as indendent LoCos
[21:00] <felipexil> I would like to confirm this
[21:00] <skellat> felipexil: We will address that later under "Any Other Business".  Right now it is out of order.
[21:01] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: this is your request to be independent loco
[21:01] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: yes
[21:01] <skellat> Representatives of the teams, for the purposes of today's meeting, need merely make the following request: "That the XX Team be considered an independent LoCo team notwithstanding representing less than a country"
[21:01] <skellat> With the name of the team substitute for XX
[21:02] <ivarela> yes
[21:02] <skellat> Would the representatives of the teams please state their formal requests?
[21:03] <ivarela> I think it's the same case for both. The two groups have cultures, languages and history that allows us to work at the same level as a LoCo with state
[21:03] <skellat> xuacu, do you make the same request?
[21:04] <felipexil> We (the Galician team) make the same request
[21:04] <xuacu> I'm waiting for ivarela to do it, I could do on his behalf if he's not present
[21:04] <skellat> Fellow Council members, the requests have been made.  Are you ready to vote on each item so as to dispose of the requests?
[21:05] <costales> skellat, I'll no vote this time, because these teams are like brothers for me :)
[21:05] <PabloRubianes> ok, can I ask why you don't want to be part of the Spain Team?
[21:05] <ivarela> Where do you live PabloRubianes ?
[21:05] <PabloRubianes> Uruguay
[21:06] <ivarela> Do you feel you are argentinian?
[21:06] <ivarela> That's the same.
[21:06] <PabloRubianes> no
[21:06] <PabloRubianes> you are in the same country
[21:06] <xuacu> Asturian LoCo has it's own workflow. Despite our excellent relationships with es-LoCo we want to keep things as they are now
[21:06] <felipexil> PabloRubianes: the Galician team is organized around our "culture", specially by our language
[21:06] <felipexil> we want to collaborate with all the teams
[21:07] <felipexil> and very specially with the teams in the Iberian Peninsula
[21:07] <PabloRubianes> felipexil: I respect that, and I know that you have your language
[21:07] <ivarela> anyway, culture and language is not the same. And we will not go back.
[21:07] <PabloRubianes> ok
[21:08] <ivarela> tebanpb, Llumex03 and dangerouspiper can say exactly the same
[21:08] <Llumex03> Yep
[21:09] <PabloRubianes> lets vote then
[21:09] <dangerouspiper> +1
[21:09] <xuacu> of course, our collaboration with es-LoCo will go on as usual, but as independent teams
[21:09] <skellat> There will be two separate votes
[21:09] <skellat> #vote That the Galician Team, pursuant to their request this day, be considered an independent LoCo team notwithstanding representing less than a country.
[21:09] <meetingology> Please vote on: That the Galician Team, pursuant to their request this day, be considered an independent LoCo team notwithstanding representing less than a country.
[21:09] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[21:09] <skellat> +1
[21:09] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[21:09] <PabloRubianes> +1
[21:09] <meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
[21:10] <SergioMeneses> 0
[21:10] <meetingology> 0 received from SergioMeneses
[21:10] <skellat> #endvote
[21:10] <meetingology> Voting ended on: That the Galician Team, pursuant to their request this day, be considered an independent LoCo team notwithstanding representing less than a country.
[21:10] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[21:10] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:10] <skellat> #vote That the Asturian Team, pursuant to their request this day, be considered an independent LoCo Team notwithstanding representing less than a country.
[21:10] <meetingology> Please vote on: That the Asturian Team, pursuant to their request this day, be considered an independent LoCo Team notwithstanding representing less than a country.
[21:10] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[21:10] <skellat> +1
[21:10] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[21:10] <PabloRubianes> +1
[21:10] <meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
[21:11] <SergioMeneses> 0
[21:11] <meetingology> 0 received from SergioMeneses
[21:11] <skellat> #endvote
[21:11] <meetingology> Voting ended on: That the Asturian Team, pursuant to their request this day, be considered an independent LoCo Team notwithstanding representing less than a country.
[21:11] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[21:11] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:12] <skellat> #info Marcos Costales, in his capacity as leader of Ubuntu Spain and as a member of LoCo Council, stood aside from both votes.
[21:13] <skellat> The requests are granted.  The Asturian team is reminded that re-verification is still due at the deadline specified on Launchpad.
[21:13] <felipexil> Thanks!
[21:13] <skellat> #topic Any Other Business
[21:13] <skellat> What other business is there before the LoCo Council at this time?  It is presently 2113 UTC.
[21:13] <xuacu> Thank you all for hearing us
[21:14] <skellat> xuacu: If you had written to us as asked prior we could have disposed of this even more quickly.
[21:14] <nhaines> What is the preferred forum for exception requests?
[21:14] <ivarela> Thank you very much
[21:14] <ivarela> felipexil, gracies home!!
[21:14] <skellat> nhaines: We're still debating that internally.  This is the first time we've approached such since the policy was adopted so most of it was handled in a pro forma fashion.
[21:15] <skellat> If we had been written to, the turnaround would possibly have been quicker.  We only hold one IRC meeting per month.
[21:15] <skellat> When in doubt, write to us.
[21:16] <skellat> We try to not let things get hung up due to the calendar if we can avoid it.
[21:16] <nhaines> So provisionally, the preferred form of contact is via email to the LoCo Council?
[21:16] <skellat> For now, yes.
[21:17] <skellat> #info Those who have requests of the LoCo Council are advised to write to it at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for assistance.
[21:18] <skellat> rww: Do you wish to continue discussion of your matter?  We're unfortunately not quorate at this point as Sergio and Pablo had to depart.
[21:18] <rww> sorry, work matter. yes.
[21:18] <xuacu> still, it's very likely that things goes out of control
[21:19] <skellat> Okay
[21:19] <rww> so as I mentioned earlier, I was concerned (and I think nhaines was?) about the communication surrounding this policy
[21:19] <nhaines> rww: that is an accurate representation of my concern.
[21:19] <skellat> Bad situations make for bad policy.
[21:19] <xuacu> I've found this issue already in a bad state
[21:19] <rww> For example, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't see public discussion of it beforehand, which I think is something that could be improved in the future.
[21:19] <skellat> May I tell some of the back story?
[21:20] <rww> sure :)
[21:20] <skellat> Okay
[21:20] <skellat> First the Catalan team came up for re-verification
[21:20] <skellat> Under one country, one LoCo we said they didn't fit as they're still part of Spain
[21:20] <skellat> Yes, they're trying hard to have a separatist referendum but for now they're still part of Spain
[21:21] <skellat> The Catalan team didn't like that so they took the matter up with Community Council
[21:21] <skellat> After a long and not so happy meeting between both bodies, LoCo Council was tasked with trying to find a way to adapt what had existed prior to accommodate the Catalan situation
[21:21] <nhaines> Why was it so important to disband the verified, fully-functional Catalan team?
[21:22] <xuacu> nhaines: I second your question
[21:22] <skellat> nhaines: We were trying to clean up what we had in terms of policies and exceptions (written, unwritten, and some partially forgotten) to bring it into a coherent whole
[21:22] <skellat> This was also prior to the Scottish independence vote failing
[21:23] <skellat> After multiple rounds of LoCo Council deadlocking on trying to adapt policy so that forgotten understandings, barely documented exceptions, and the like could be cleaned up...
[21:23] <skellat> ...we voted via CIVS.
[21:23] <skellat> By majority vote we adopted what we had.
[21:24] <skellat> This stretched on for about 3 months.
[21:24] <skellat> We finally submitted the policy to Community Council to see if they felt it would help ameliorate the situation that arose with respect to the Catalan team, they were okay with it, and we then resolved the Catalan matter.
[21:25] <skellat> There were a couple different versions we voted on and this one was the one we felt would be flexible enough to accommodate the future.
[21:26] <skellat> As to the US, the exceptions for the individual states stay because of the unique system of dual sovereignties in play especially considering every Governor has their own army (## State National Guard) as well as the federal forces.
[21:27] <rww> I think discussing the US fully would probably not be productive, so unless someone objects we can probably set that aside :)
[21:27] <rww> (US sovereignty is... a fun topic)
[21:27] <nhaines> Not the consideration that a US LoCo with 50 team leads and almost no geographical continuity would be completely unproductive?
[21:28] <skellat> rww: LoCo Council spent a week going round and round about it and there was a "red team" discussion of creating a single US LoCo undertaken.
[21:28] <nhaines> Actually I like rww's better.
[21:28] <tebanpb> I have a question then. What about countries without their own army? :s
[21:29] <rww> So yeah. Communication. I understand (and now more fully understand) that it was a difficult situation, and that bringing it up for public discussion was in some ways problematic.
[21:29] <skellat> tebanpb: :-) That was just one example of dual sovereignties in the US system.
[21:29] <skellat> rww: Yeah, you could say that.
[21:29] <skellat> Does it need work?  Probably.
[21:29] <elfy> o/
[21:29] <skellat> elfy: Hello comrade
[21:29] <rww> However, as someone who part-manages a LoCo that occasionally threatens to try to be two LoCos, I would have appreciated *something* on loco-contacts@, even if it were just "we're pondering the one-LoCo-one-state policy, if you have input email the LoCo Council off-list"
[21:30] <tebanpb> But sovereignty is a political concept which is defined differently in each country
[21:30] <rww> I mean, it's water under the bridge now, but please consider that for future issues :)
[21:30] <nhaines> tebanpb: this is why the guidelines allow for exceptions on an individual basis.
[21:30] <tebanpb> As a matter of fact I don't get why we are getting so much into these politic issues :s
[21:30] <rww> And I've said my piece, so back to the others for their comments I guess.
[21:30] <costales> tebanpb, all it's politic
[21:31] <skellat> rww: We're all fairly exhausted from the Utopic Unicorn cycle getting the issues of the Iberian Peninsula settled.
[21:31] <costales> tebanpb, our society and live
[21:31] <costales> ;)
[21:31] <dangerouspiper> skellat you konw that in Spain is a system with dual sovereignties?
[21:31] <tebanpb> I mean institutional politics
[21:32] <tebanpb> dangerouspiper is right about that
[21:32] <skellat> Okay, does anybody else have anything else to raise before the LoCo Council at this time?
[21:32] <costales> dangerouspiper,  I tried to explain to the Council
[21:32] <tebanpb> and we could end discussing about what sovereignty means, it's pointless
[21:33] <skellat> Nothing being heard, this meeting is concluded.  Thank you all for your participation.
[21:33] <costales> I think is not a political issue, it's a cultural/language issue
[21:33] <skellat> #endmeeting
[21:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 21 21:33:47 2014 UTC.
[21:33] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-21-20.00.moin.txt
[21:33] <costales> thanks a lot skellat for be our chairman :)
[21:33] <skellat> Your welcome.
[21:34] <skellat> s/Your welcome/You are welcome/
[21:34] <costales> xD
[21:34] <costales> sed rules!
[21:34] <nhaines> xuacu, ivarela, felipexil: congratulations.  :)
[21:34] <costales> bye bye!
[21:34] <xuacu> Nigth everyone and thank you again :)
[21:34] <felipexil>  skellat: I'm a bit late, but I think the policy should be clarified
[21:34] <felipexil> just in case other teams are in our situation
[21:34] <felipexil> nhaines: thanks!
[21:35] <xuacu> bye!
[21:35] <ivarela> nhaines, thanks to you
[21:35] <felipexil> thanks xuacu, ivarela!
[21:35] <nhaines> Your result is what I thought the policy should allow, and I'm happy it worked out that way.  I hope that this helps to relieve some of the concerns of the community.
[21:35] <ivarela> felipexil, gracies home!
[21:36] <nhaines> costales: can't get enough of us?  :)


[00:26] <OvenWerks> John122: start jack from the "app"... which app? If you start jack with studio-controls pavucontrol _should_ show no devices. However, if it is working correctly, output devices should show one or more jacksinks
[00:27] <OvenWerks> John122: I would assume this means that some thing has gone wrong in autojack. So a look at the autojack.log file may help sort that out
[00:54] <OvenWerks> John122: cat ~/.log/autojack.log |pastebinit may give some insight
[07:44] <John122> OvenWerks: morning. I had an error about a2jmidid so I installed that. I backed up the log file, rm'd and touched it, and restarted so the minimum log is now https://pastebin.com/9HYnLuqZ
[07:48] <John122> OvenWerks: I don't know if I am best to remove all other audio devices or not? The PI has HDMI audio and Headphones audio (bcm2835) but I won't be using them. I'll only be using the Rubix24. When I first started this setup on Friday (not realising the problems I'd face) I removed them so the only device was the Rubix24 but I've now put them back so I have something to set in JACK Master Device (no usb) ?
[07:49] <John122> OvenWerks: and sorry, I'm not sure I follow the line about starting jack from the "app" ?
[08:01] <OvenWerks> The log file shows that pulse is not able to load the pulse jack bridge. maybe it is not installed
[08:02] <basskuroi> hi, i need some help about "users"
[08:04] <OvenWerks> John122: you need to install pulseaudio-module-jack
[08:04] <OvenWerks> basskuroi: please ask
[08:04] <OvenWerks> users is not a whole question
[08:04] <basskuroi> ok
[08:05] <basskuroi> i switch from ubuntustudio to mate
[08:06] <basskuroi> and when i was trying to switch back, i clicked on users, so "fpnd" and "zerotier-one" users appears
[08:06] <basskuroi> i'm the only user on this pc so i freaked out
[08:07] <basskuroi> is there good reasons to freak out?
[08:12] <OvenWerks> I don't know I do not think studio would install those. My system does not have those users
[08:13] <basskuroi> ok thanks
[08:23] <John122> OvenWerks: almost there! the devices are now showing up! And when I look at the Web API devices they show up, but they are all coming out of the same channel - https://pastebin.com/wnikFBgV
[08:28] <John122> OvenWerks: here's three screenshots of my settings (obviously there are others but you will get the idea) - https://markuphero.com/share/vHATPd4a0J9KnNpI3RIF , https://markuphero.com/share/PpHNdqWzLmWPnUTSYsKq , https://markuphero.com/share/xxnxFsbi99esWV3zpgLm
[08:42] <John122> OvenWerks: testing it with VLC is odd. Here's the other 3 channels setup https://markuphero.com/share/5iHeP3IRwTMjm5Ruxix1 , https://markuphero.com/share/33zQRtU2DfdZt7mOfX45 , https://markuphero.com/share/DzEHGIJjqfSoRnXGFvZR - but if I choose pulse_out-1, it seems to play mainly from output 4 on the Rubix but with a bit of bleed into output 2... if I choose pulse_out-2 I get output on Rubix ports 3 and 4, wit
[08:42] <John122> h a bit of bleed on port 2, pulse_out-3 gives me output on 3 and 4, nothing on 2, pulse_out-4 gives me output on Rubix port 4 only... ?!
[09:11] <John122> OvenWerks: Yes, I can see from the logs that the connections are 1 to 1, 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 1 to 4, 2 to 2, 2 to 3, 2 to 4, 3 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 4 - but I don't see how that corresponds to what I have in the GUI setup. Should I delete all bindings and restart? Or is there a conf file I can edit by hand?
[11:17] <John122> OvenWerks: Noticed the message about how the auto connections are made starting at the port listed and continue to the port count or the last listed device, whichever is less. so now it makes sense how 1 is going to 1,2,3,4, and 2 is going to 2, 3, 4, and 3 is going to 3, 4 and 4 is going to 4, except I have 1 in the value for Bridge Channel Count - is that not the "port count" mentioned in the message?
[15:00] <John122> OvenWerks: I've now got it working but I have to use qjackctl as well. Studio Controls alone is doing this odd multiple connection thing. If I open qjackctl, I can see all the connections and remove them and reconnect correctly. But this requires both to be open. And on reboot I have to start Studio Controls (which then messes up the connections again), then qjackctl to edit them. Any ideas what is going wrong
[15:00] <John122> please? The main thing - which is simply BRILLIANT - is this now works, just not smoothly. At least I can now finish this project (at least the audio part) on the RPi now! Thanks for your help so far, hopefully we can just crack this last part!
[15:23]  * sakrecoer[b] uploaded an image: d04455ea-a517-4023-b465-1b570cb215ab.jpg (57KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/basspistol.org/dcOoqFxTkukEpdtcIHTjABKf/d04455ea-a517-4023-b465-1b570cb215ab.jpg >
[15:23] <sakrecoer[b]> any idea why i get this when shuting off lately?
[15:24] <sakrecoer[b]> session 3 of my user...? shouldn't ibhave just one session?
[16:34] <OvenWerks> John122: I may be a while but there are two things I would look at: ~/.config/autojack/autojack.json (you can cat file |pastebinit) and jack_lsp -c |pastebinit
[16:35] <OvenWerks> John122: these would alow me to see what you have asked for and what you are getting. Please do this right after you start jack before you correct anything using a patch bay
[16:36] <OvenWerks> John122: also, after you correct the connections a second version of jack_lsp -c |pastebinit to show me what you do want :)
[16:39] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer[b]: which version of OS are you using these days? Have you logged out and back in?
[16:40] <John122> OvenWerks: ok, will do. thanks. sorry, just come out of a meeting
[16:40] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer[b]: There is no DE that logs out correctly that I know of. All of them leave a hanging logind running.
[16:41] <OvenWerks> John122: no problem I think we are different sides of the world (-0800 here)
[16:41] <John122> OvenWerks: 17:41 here ;)
[16:41] <John122> OvenWerks: Spain (but English)
[16:42] <OvenWerks> John122: your good morning last night was my about to go to bed :)
[16:42] <John122> OvenWerks: ha
[16:57] <John122> OvenWerks: These two are as the system is right now, working, with Studio Controls open, but no bindings, and qjackctl running and connections set up https://pastebin.com/Fm9ncCnD , https://pastebin.com/fUbei5f4
[16:57] <sakrecoer[b]> ovenwerks: 20.10 with backports. i'm not very surprised about the logind hanging. it's the numeration of the session.. 3..?  :D but maybe it'd always been like that..?
[17:06] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer[b]: could be, there are some background daemons that run as login sessions or at least as a user
[17:10] <OvenWerks> John122: is it correct that you want pulse_in-1 to be connected to both system:capture_1 and 2? a mix?
[17:11] <John122> no
[17:11] <John122> OvenWerks: I've not actually looked at properly setting up the capture yet, unless I could get the output working as I needed it wasn't worth it
[17:11] <John122> OvenWerks: just doing the other pastebins for you
[17:11] <OvenWerks> John122: the 4 outputs are not connected in the config yet
[17:13] <John122> OvenWerks: in that setup there, it works with qjackctr
[17:13] <John122> OvenWerks: After removing connections in qjackctl and rebooting https://pastebin.com/CNYCW1sz, and after starting studio_controls https://pastebin.com/E7Uiie1z
[17:13] <John122> OvenWerks: After adding the bindings in studio_controls https://pastebin.com/40AYmtb3 and https://pastebin.com/PWZaSg37
[17:14] <John122> OvenWerks: After launching qjackctl (having already deleted the connections here before the last reboot), this is the connections set up by studio_control https://markuphero.com/share/oim7pe8XMj5zSOAd4B0C
[17:14] <John122> OvenWerks: If I delete all those connections, and reconnect in qjackctl one to one, it works as expected
[17:16] <OvenWerks> John122: wow, ok, I will assume a bug in studio-controls
[17:17] <John122> OvenWerks: I didn't like to say as user error is more likely ;) but it does look like it. It seems to be ignoring the limit to 1 port instruction and going until the end of the devices. But 2, or 3 etc seems to work as a limit
[17:18] <OvenWerks> not sure when I will be able to look at it as this is my wife's weekend and so I don't do so much dev work (I am on the wrong machine)
[17:21] <John122> OvenWerks: ok, no worries, as it suits you obviously, I know what it's like! for now I can finish this app and start testing it using a combination of both apps (I think I'm right in saying yours has set up the devices, but the other is making the bindings?) but obviously it'll be great to have it so it just works on boot and I don't have to worry about touching it again (this will be 100% dedicated to this use
[17:21] <John122>  so once setup it won't ever change)
[17:21] <OvenWerks> John122: till I fix it, it seems it is best to do connections outside of controls
[17:21] <Eickmeyer> sakrecoer[b]: That happens to me if I login to a VT and forget to log out. Pretty much expected behavior, unfortunately.
[17:21] <John122> OvenWerks: yep
[17:22] <John122> OvenWerks: thanks so much for your help, I really thought I wasn't even going to be able to get this far!
[17:22] <OvenWerks> you can use jack_connect in a script to make your connections
[17:22] <John122> OvenWerks: was considering dusting off an old 2011 imac to use for this instead of an RPi (at 10x the power consumption and noise!)
[17:22] <John122> OvenWerks: ah ok, I'll take a look at that
[17:31] <John122> OvenWerks: Great, got that working with jack_connect, just need to sort out starting jackd properly from the cli - not working as I'd expect
[17:34] <OvenWerks> John122: bug confirmed here
[17:34] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: not sure when but there will need to be controls 2.1.3
[17:35] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I read along.
[17:35] <John122> OvenWerks: ah great (if you know what I mean!)
[17:36] <OvenWerks> always good to know it is not a user error... well when you are the user an yway ;)
[17:36] <sakrecoer[b]> Eickmeyer thanks! :)
[17:37] <John122> OvenWerks: ;)
[17:37] <John122> OvenWerks: I've been on both sides, so know what you mean!
[17:41] <John122> OvenWerks: sorry to bug you, do you know how I start jackd from the cli on the RPi? the command in $HOME/.jackdrc fails
[19:38] <sirriffsalot> Has anyone worked out how to get guitarixs' plugin-gui's to work in Ardour? I've googled for ages but can't find a solution
[19:42] <OvenWerks> sirriffsalot: yeah thats a problem, guitarix' author is working on that... it uses gtk.
[19:45] <OvenWerks> John122: what is the command line in $HOME/.jackdrc?
[19:46]  * OvenWerks just got back from doing a mini tutorial on mixer use.
[19:47] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: okay, cheers!
[19:47] <OvenWerks> sirriffsalot: :) I think guitarix is moving away from gtk
[19:48] <sirriffsalot> Hey as long as it works I'll be happy
[19:50] <John122> @OvenWerks  /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p256 -n2 -i4 -o4 but my card is hw:2 but that doesn't work either
[19:51] <OvenWerks> John122: take out the -i4 -o2
[19:52] <OvenWerks> see if that works
[19:52] <OvenWerks> John122: my understanding is that setting i/o channels does not work except for the dummy backend
[19:52] <John122> OvenWerks: perfecto!
[19:53] <John122> OvenWerks: thanks!
[19:53]  * OvenWerks tried to put that in studio-controls and failed


[06:25] <lilstevie> is anyone about?
[09:23] <lag> ogra: Ping
[09:41] <hrw> morgen
[09:46] <lag> hrw: Morning
[09:46] <lag> hrw: Thanks for the Linked-in add
[09:46] <hrw> np
[09:46] <lag> hrw: You'd do well to change your picture
[09:46] <lag> :)
[09:46] <lag> You don't look like that anymore :)
[09:47] <hrw> I am lazy when it comes to pictures
[09:49] <lag> It's the reason I didn't recognise you in Prague
[09:49] <hrw> I shaved and haircut on Thursday
[09:50] <lag> Did you have hair before then?
[09:52] <hrw> yep
[09:52] <lag> A big change for you then
[09:52] <lag> It looks better now
[10:19] <lag> mythripk: ping
[11:00] <XorA> heh makes ubuntu sound like a cult, must shave head before meeting :-)
[11:02] <lag> Well you know that computer programmers have a reputation for being intimidating and hard! ;)
[11:04]  * XorA wonders if Henry Rollins is an ubuntu developer
[11:06] <lag> I hear Charles Bronson also dabbles
[11:17] <hrw> I wrote nice patch during sprint - it dropped<EMAIL_ADDRESS>from binutils/README.cross as such one does not exists
[11:17]  * hrw is neither Debian or Ubuntu developer
[11:18] <lool> Would someone know which host is the armel porter box in the Canonical DC?
[11:18] <lool> I tried rimu and jocote, but these are dead apparently
[11:37] <lag> lool: kakadu
[11:45] <lool> lag: kakadu to you too
[11:45] <lool> oh wait, is that an hostname?   :)
[11:45] <lag> lool: Yes :)
[11:46] <lool> lag: Works, thanks
[11:47] <lag> lool: np
[11:48] <lool> lag: Do you know how to install build-deps?
[11:48] <lool> hmm apt-get install
[11:49] <lag> lool: What are you trying to do?
[11:49] <lool> lag: install build-deps of a package; sudo apt-get install works
[11:49] <lool> ERROR: package 'libjack0' marked for removal but the system does not allow removals
[11:49] <lool> hmpf
[11:51] <lag> :)
[11:51] <lag> Nothing to do with me
[11:51] <lag> You'll have to speak to IS
[11:51] <lool> it's ok, I can live without the package I was missing; it seems it will meed mvo to fix some rapt script
[11:51] <lool> first time I see this script BTW
[11:54] <lool> chrisccoulson: Hey
[11:55] <chrisccoulson> hi!
[11:55] <lool> chrisccoulson: Unfortunately, yao is .cn and michaelh .nz, and they are both offline now
[11:55] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[11:55] <lool> (they are the main folks looking into the issue, and the other folks have other tasks)
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> i'm just trying to figure out how to run it without jit (i know it's possible to do that when creating the JSContext, but i'm not sure if it looks for something in the environment)
[11:57] <hrw> lool: apt-get build-dep package
[11:57] <lool> hrw: this doesnt work in the porter boxes
[11:57] <lool> hrw: only apt-get install is allowed
[11:57] <hrw> ok, good to know
[11:57]  * hrw avoids foreign machines
[11:59] <lool> chrisccoulson: Running it on imacro_asm.js alone is enough to crash it, but on an empty file or on imacros.jsasm, it doesn't crash
[11:59] <ukleinek> lool: apt-get install -o "Dir::Etc::SourceList $HOME/mysources.list" setuidbash :-)
[11:59] <chrisccoulson> lool, yeah, i'm seeing the same behaviour here
[11:59] <lool> ukleinek: Eh
[12:03] <lool> chrisccoulson: A trivial file with "i = 0;"
[12:03] <lool> breaks it
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> lool - i think it's already running without JIT (in any case, running with "-j" still causes it to crash, and that option toggles the state of JIT)
[12:05] <lool> chrisccoulson: Hmm ok, there's also a -o jit, but I couldn't unset it properly
[12:05] <lool> chrisccoulson: Would it make sense to try to build the tip of the js tree from mozilla-central to see if it's still there?
[12:06] <chrisccoulson> i just had a look at the code for the shell, and passing "-j" causes it to do "JS_ToggleOptions(cx, JSOPTION_JIT);"
[12:06] <lool> chrisccoulson: a workaround we could try is -fno-strict-aliasing
[12:07] <lool> chrisccoulson: lunch here, bbl
[12:38]  * lag wonders where ogra is today
[12:38] <ogra> busy with non IRC stuff, sorry
[12:38] <ogra> whats up ?
[12:39] <lag> np
[12:39] <lag> The daily builds appear to have stopped building on the 20th?
[12:40] <ogra> yes, there are issues with the image size of the filesystem
[12:40] <ogra> i'm working on debugging it
[12:40] <lool> chrisccoulson: back
[12:40] <lag> ogra: And the 20th is the one that's broken
[12:40] <ogra> somehow we create to small images for no apparent reasons
[12:41] <ogra> so the cp'ing of the chroot content fails with "no space left on device" errors
[12:41] <lag> Is this something you're working on right now?
[12:41] <ogra> yes
[12:41] <lag> Then I'll leave you to it
[12:41] <ogra> i dont get the reason though
[12:41] <lag> Can you poke me when it's complete
[12:41] <ogra> df -ks |cut -f1 is how we get the size
[12:42] <lag> df: invalid option -- 's'
[12:42] <lag> Try `df --help' for more information.
[12:42] <ogra> dd if=/dev/zero of=<image> bs=1024 count=0 seek=<size> ... is how we create the image
[12:42] <ogra> err
[12:42] <ogra> du -ks, sorry
[12:42] <lag> Okay, that works
[12:42] <ogra> according to the manpage du -ks gives me the value of 1k bytes
[12:43] <ogra> so using bs=1024 needs to create an exactly sized image file
[12:44] <ogra> i dont get where the overhead comes from
[12:44] <ogra> apparently there is some
[12:44] <chrisccoulson> lool - i was just about to try building our firefox-4.0 package, which is basically what's in mozilla-central;
[12:44] <lool> ogra: what do you du?
[12:44] <lag> ogra: Yes it does
[12:44] <ogra> lool, creating ext2 images
[12:44] <lool> chrisccoulson: Ok, I copied over src/js and ran autoconf, configure, and am building now
[12:44] <lool> chrisccoulson: But your plan sounds good
[12:45] <ukleinek> ogra: there is some fs overhead, no?
[12:45] <lool> ogra: Do you du the .img file, or the contents of the image?
[12:45] <ogra> lool, the build chroot
[12:45] <lool> even if you du all files in the fs, there is more space used by the fs
[12:45] <lool> with fs structures
[12:45] <lool> superblocks for instance are obviously not accounted per file
[12:45] <ogra> we also add 10M for a potential journal to the size variable
[12:46] <ogra> yeah
[12:46] <ogra> i would have expected to have some overhead, but more than 10 meg ?
[12:46] <lool> this seems really fragile
[12:47] <ogra> it is what livecd-roofs uses for the squashfs size computation
[12:47] <ogra> seems ext*fs has some more overhead
[12:47] <ogra> (the same code is used by angstrom for creating their images btw)
[12:48] <ukleinek> ogra: apt-cache show genext2fs
[12:48] <ogra> ukleinek, thats what causes my headdache
[12:49] <ogra> and why i'm working at the code :)
[12:49] <ukleinek> ah, I thought there was no need to specify an image-size
[12:49] <lool> chrisccoulson: Happy to hear when you have a firefox-4.0 build finished; if my tip build doesn't help, I'll try with -fno-strict-aliasing
[12:49] <ogra> genext2fs allocates the whole size of the target image in ram
[12:49] <ogra> before copying anything into it
[12:50] <ogra> with our 1.6G images that takes 2h and about 2G swap
[12:50] <ukleinek> huh
[12:50] <ogra> we initially used genext2fs ... i'm currently attempting to switch to a loop mounted img file instead
[12:52] <lool> loop-mounted?  doesn't that require root?
[12:53] <ogra> lool, we have root on the livefs builders
[12:54] <ogra> no prob there
[12:54] <ogra> just not on antimony
[12:54] <lool> oh right
[12:54] <ogra> 21032 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user
[12:54] <ogra> heh
[12:54] <ogra> silly me :P
[13:08] <lool> chrisccoulson: js from mozilla-central segfaults too
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> lool - ah, ok. i can probably stop the firefox-4 build then
[13:12] <lool> chrisccoulson: Hmm it doesn't use any shared libs or anything does it?
[13:12] <lool> chrisccoulson: I'm running gdb on the unstripped shell/js file, but the stacktrace is worthless, did you do anything to get a nice backtrace?
[13:12] <lool> Reading symbols from /home/lool/js/src/shell/js...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
[13:12] <lool> uh
[13:12] <lool> ah, not built with -g *me bangs head*
[13:13] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[13:13]  * lool builds with -g -ggdb -O0 -fno-strict-aliasing now
[13:13] <lool> chrisccoulson: ~lool/js/src.tgz is a base tree ifyou like
[13:14]  * lool grmpfs - mozilla configure doesn't take CFLAGS on the cmdline
[13:18] <hrw> ~curse linux-meta ubuntu crap
[13:19] <hrw> apt-get source linux-what-it-is-called-today suxx
[13:21] <amitk> hrw: it is always linux-image-<flavour>
[13:21] <hrw> no,  it is linux-image-version-abi-flavour
[13:22] <hrw> and version and abi changes daily, twice daily, weekly, randomly
[13:22] <amitk> I thought you wanted meta source?
[13:22] <hrw> no
[13:22] <hrw> I want source
[13:22] <amitk> sure, whats wrong with abi changing?
[13:22] <hrw> if I want meta I do 'apt-get source linux-meta'
[13:22] <ogra> apt-get source linux ?
[13:22] <hrw> ogra: will grab linux-meta instead
[13:22] <ogra> oh, right
[13:22]  * ogra always forgets that
[13:23] <hrw> ogra: there was bug about it since ubuntu 3.04 or older
[13:23] <hrw> bug #-2
[13:23] <lool> hrw: apt-get --only-source source linux
[13:24] <hrw> lool: thx
[13:31] <lool> crap, I have to pass CXXFLAGS as well
[13:33] <lool> There, finally, it builds with the proper flags
[13:35] <dyfet> ogra: hi!  I have not had a chance to unpack yet
[13:36] <ogra> dyfet, take your time
[13:36] <dyfet> well, I also have some pain killers for my eye...
[13:47] <lool> GRR -O3 overrides my user-specified -O0
[13:48] <lool> and -fstrict-aliasing as well
[13:48] <lool> chrisccoulson: How is one expected to pass flags to the builds?
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> lool, what flags do you want to pass?
[13:49] <lool> chrisccoulson: I'd like to pass CFLAGS="-g -ggdb -O0 -fno-strict-aliasing -Wall" CXXFLAGS="$CFLAGS"
[13:49] <lool> MODULE_OPTIMIZE_FLAGS is apparently what I'm supposed to set
[13:49] <lool> and INTERP_OPTIMIZER, sigh
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> lool - doing "export CFLAGS=...." before running configure should work
[13:50] <lool> chrisccoulson: does not, MODULE_OPTIMIZE_FLAGS and INTERP_OPTIMIZER take precedence (my flags are passed, but overriden later in command-lines)
[13:51] <lool> I see some -Os now, from /somewhere/
[13:52] <lool> chrisccoulson: The evil thing is that different files are compiled with different opts, so it seemed like I was finally using the proper ones, but no, I wasn't for some files   :-/
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> lool - does it work if you build with --disable-optimize?
[13:53] <lool> chrisccoulson: Didn't try that one
[13:53] <lool> MOZ_OPTIMIZE_FLAGS is where -Os comes from
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> --disable-optimize should switch off building different files with different optimizations
[13:54] <lool> I will pass that *and* turn all the nasty flags off explicitly on make
[13:59]  * lool looks hard and doesn't see any -Os or -O3 or -fstrict-aliasing anymore
[13:59] <lool> and the build is faster in -O0
[14:06] <lool> chrisccoulson: Yep, same issue with every opt turned off
[14:07] <lool> same bt
[14:07] <lool> #0  0x00072688 in js_CheckForStringIndex (id=1514652) at jsobj.cpp:4006
[14:07] <lool> #1  0x00073c9c in js_SetPropertyHelper (cx=0x1b7900, obj=0x40602000,  id=1514652, defineHow=9, vp=0xbeb433c0) at jsobj.cpp:5012
[14:07] <asac> lool: if you want to use the same -Ox everywhere you can say: --enable-optmize="-Os"  for instance ... this will override all subtree optimization etc. (not sure if thats what you ask)
[14:08] <lool> asac: that was the goal, yes, well that and other flags
[14:09] <asac> lool: the subtree optimizes are tuned by mozilla. they would be happy to get better tuning for armel from talking to a few folks at moz summit. but just -O2 etc. wont be right.
[14:09] <asac> what problem triggers this?
[14:09] <asac> crashes with our new toolchain?
[14:10] <lool> chrisccoulson: eh, s == 0x00000008 now
[14:11] <lool> asac: the js interpreter in xulrunner/firefox builds is broken with the new toolchain
[14:11] <lool> asac: What I hate with the mozilla thing is that my flags don't get precedence
[14:11] <asac> kk
[14:12] <asac> which flags do you want to remove/add?
[14:12] <asac> lool: ?
[14:13] <lool> asac: it's ok now, the flags were discussed earlier here: -O0, -g, -ggdb, -Wall, -fno-strict-aliasing and such
[14:13] <asac> k
[14:13] <lool> I managed to pass the flags, but now I'm trying to debug, and it doesn't look too nice
[14:13] <asac> lool: for best debugging you could use --disable-optimize and --enable-debug
[14:14] <asac> and then start it from dist/bin directly
[14:14] <asac> (but i guess that was already mentioned too)
[14:19] <lool> asac: This is the information I was looking for earlier, but now I have a debug build
[14:19] <lool> asac: Are you tempted to look into this?
[14:21] <asac> lool: --enable-debug also enables assertion logging etc. so it might be helpful if you dont get that atm. (e.g. if you start you should see a bunch of prints etc.)
[14:22] <asac> lool: i dont think i will be able figure these toolchain induced problems easily.
[14:39] <hrw> zumbi: thx for mail - will reply
[14:39] <rsalveti> morning
[14:40] <zumbi> hrw: no problem.. I do not know why i did not see it before
[14:46] <hrw> zumbi: number of your ITP is?
[14:48] <zumbi> hrw: why?
[14:50] <zumbi> 553682
[14:50] <zumbi> 553683
[14:50] <zumbi> 553684
[14:50] <zumbi> 553685
[14:50] <zumbi> 553687
[14:51] <zumbi> and discussion upon -devel
[14:52] <lool> zumbi: So what's the model for these sources?
[14:53] <lool> zumbi: Is it the same source tree uploaded multiple times?
[14:53] <lool> gcc-4.3, does someone still care about this??
[14:53] <lool> zumbi: what about linux headers?
[14:54] <zumbi> 553679
[14:55] <hrw> zumbi: wanted to read
[14:56] <lool> hrw: read?
[14:56] <hrw> lool: yes, read - I do such thing with bug reports
[14:57] <lool> zumbi: So I see only one gcc and one eglibc source package; I understand you will go through 6 or so uploads at least everytime the linux headers change or something
[14:57] <zumbi> lool: i prefer delay discussion for debconf
[14:57] <lool> zumbi: Your ITPs seem to use the same model I was using for my cross-toolchain source tree, is that the one?
[14:57] <hrw> zumbi: bookmarked those
[14:58] <hrw> zumbi: will mail debian-embedded/linaro-toolchain with more info
[14:58] <zumbi> lool: not exactly, but i keep you in copyright files
[14:58] <zumbi> hrw: thanks
[14:59] <lool> zumbi: I personally concluded that this wasn't a sane model
[14:59] <lool> Too many uploads, or out of date toolchains, and too many source packages
[15:00] <zumbi> lool: is not your model, and what do you care? I am the one who step up for maintainance
[15:00] <zumbi> within Debian
[15:00] <zumbi> I have been holding upload for later discussion
[15:00] <zumbi> multiarch, sysroot and emdebian way of doing things
[15:00] <lool> zumbi: I care because I will be using Debian cross-toolchains too, and because I care about Debian!
[15:01] <zumbi> I would prefer to coordinate with you all, so I propose to discuss this at debconf
[15:01] <lool> zumbi: Discussing at Debconf is fine too, but we can as well discuss some of it now?
[15:01] <zumbi> please note I am not against you
[15:01] <lool> One doesn't prevent the other  :)
[15:01] <hrw> zumbi: now we have "source binary packages" for eglibc, gcc-4.[45], linux, binutils
[15:01] <lool> zumbi: I'm not saying you're against me
[15:01] <zumbi> lool: I am at work
[15:02] <zumbi> none pais me to do this work
[15:02] <lool> zumbi: Ok; if you can't chat now, we can chat later or only at debconf
[15:02] <hrw> zumbi: soon (before maverick alpha3 if all go ok) we will have stages support in eglibc/gcc/linux and also their debian/rules* in *-source packages
[15:02] <zumbi> later should be fine, but i rather have a meeting at debconf if you really care (on all arches)
[15:02] <lool> zumbi: I don't think the arches matter really
[15:02] <zumbi> hrw: but only working on armel :/
[15:03] <hrw> zumbi: no - any non-bi/triarch
[15:03] <lool> zumbi: It's unfortunate that we broke other arches, but it's not intended and am sure it can be fixes
[15:03] <lool> *fixed
[15:03] <hrw> zumbi: tested only for armel yes
[15:04] <zumbi> hey guys, lets better discuss later or by mail if you do not mind
[15:04] <hrw> sure
[15:04] <zumbi> please, and I am not against you
[15:04] <rsavoye> does maverick-ARM run under QEMU at all ?
[15:04] <hrw> I hope that we (Linaro and Emdebian) will have a chance once to meet in one place and discuss
[15:04] <hrw> rsavoye: should
[15:05] <rsavoye> is it faster than a beagle ? :-)
[15:05] <hrw> zumbi: I am trying to be as much as possible not against anyone. If I will became such then tell
[15:05] <hrw> rsavoye: maybe on 30GHz x86-64...
[15:05] <hrw> that zero is not mistake
[15:06] <rsavoye> oh well...
[15:06] <zumbi> hrw: no, you are fine
[15:06] <rsavoye> too bad cross-compiling is so broken for most packages
[15:07] <hrw> rsavoye: thats debian/ubuntu errors
[15:07] <zumbi> hrw: but i have the feeling that lool, slangasek and partialy doko, do not undetrstand me and they are somehow mad at me. But it is just a feeling.
[15:07] <XorA> hrw has the patches to fix thousands of cross compile issues :-)
[15:07] <hrw> rsavoye: openembedded has thousands of cross compiled ones
[15:07] <rsavoye> I know, but I prefer to not use the OE build style
[15:08] <hrw> zumbi: they did less crosscompilations that we did
[15:08] <lool> zumbi: I'm not mad at you  :-)
[15:08] <slangasek> zumbi: I'm not mad at you, but you clearly working at cross-purposes to what we're trying to achieve with multiarch
[15:08] <hrw> rsavoye: so merge our (OE) patches
[15:08] <rsavoye> unfortunately it was OpenJDK I was hoping to cross compile, but it looks like a mess
[15:08] <lool> zumbi: You seem to be pushing for solutions which we identified as incomplete already
[15:08] <hrw> rsavoye: it is a mess but crossbuildable mess
[15:08] <slangasek> and I've already explained how this is the case, so I'm at a loss to how I can clarify this
[15:08] <zumbi> slangasek: happy to hear that I hope we can discuss further at debconf
[15:09] <hrw> so far I am ignoring 'multiarch' word and just do cross stuff
[15:09] <rsavoye> I see the long list of patches, I have to decide if I want to apply them all, and then fix things to cross compile with your toolchain, not OE
[15:09] <hrw> rsavoye: I know
[15:10] <zumbi> lool: I am not pushing anything, I could have the upload done and end with the issue. But I hold because I want consensus. Let's better talk at debconf and please also consider Squeeze release in mind
[15:10] <zumbi> hrw: how does OE build their cross toolchains? do they use sysroot?
[15:10] <zumbi> hrw: have you experienced the with-libs/with-headers pain?
[15:11] <hrw> zumbi: sysroot only now
[15:11] <hrw> zumbi: non sysroot way is argh but I feel that multiarch debian will force that way
[15:12] <zumbi> yes, everybody does, I do not know why do not work for lool
[15:12] <zumbi> anyway, lets better delay discussion for later (or debconf)
[15:13] <hrw> I hope for notes from debconf meeting
[15:14] <zumbi> hrw: I always try to be transparent -- do not worry for that
[15:15] <lool> zumbi: Well if you had proceeded with an upload, you wouldn't have put an end to the issue, since I would be unhappy  :-)
[15:16] <lool> zumbi: There are multiple discussions going on; one is about cross-compiler packages, and another one is about cross-compiling Debian
[15:16] <lool> Concerning cross-compiler packages, what you used to do should still be possible in the future, but might be temporarily broken (patches welcome); it should also be more solid going forward
[15:16] <lool> Since we don't have parallel sets of rules for cross versus non-cross
[15:17] <lool> It will *also* allow uploading a single cross-toolchain-armel package which will trigger a while toolchain bootstrap
[15:17] <lool> You don't seem to look at the latter, I don't understand why
[15:17] <slangasek> zumbi: to satisfy the requirements for multiarch, the trees for all architectures *must* have the same root, and it must be /; and consequently, sysroot will fail to allow coinstallability, because the architecture tuple is part of the sysroot path, *not* part of the paths for the subdirectories
[15:17] <zumbi> I rather have binutils-cross which builds all binutils targets
[15:17] <lool> I went with the 4 source packages + 6 uploads route myself, just like the one you ITP-ed, and it's *pain*, and we have another way which seems superior?
[15:18] <hrw> zumbi: 'all binutils targets' == all arches?
[15:18] <lool> zumbi: This is a valid approach, it's not what you ITP-ed; I don't think it's a good approach either, but for different reasons
[15:18] <lool> hrw: *That's what I understood at least)
[15:19] <zumbi> slangasek: yes, at the end, I understand your point :) -- but I am still convinced that multiarch and sysroot should be compatible and that is not going to happen for Squeeze, later we can change
[15:19] <slangasek> I don't see any reason they wouldn't be compatible
[15:20] <slangasek> it's just that neither helps the goals of the other
[15:20] <zumbi> lool: sure, ITP should be renamed then, I though on that after filing the ITP, but that time none care, so I did not had to coordinate much
[15:21] <zumbi> slangasek: true, I saw your point, makes sense to me
[15:22] <lool> zumbi: I don't think having multiarch and sysroot compatible wouldn't land for squeeze, it's not a complex patch, just need to agree on pathnames
[15:25] <zumbi> lool: sure, lets talk later or at debconf about it. And let me repeat, I am not against you, but I was the only one caring on cross tools on the last 5-6 years, and doko does not even allow me to touch his tree.
[15:25] <zumbi> but hey.. does not matter! We are good friends and we can discuss this like persons
[15:27]  * ogra GRRs at the archive
[15:32] <lool> zumbi: I'm not against you, I'm against the proposal of -armel packages because I went through that and I think that's heavy, and I'm against the proposal of -cross packages because I think that's ugly, but we can talk this over   :-)
[15:33] <zumbi> lool: sure - I am open for discussion :)
[15:34] <zumbi> lool: indeed, that was doko plan, he wanted only armel in the archive, but there are other devels that would like to have any-to-any arch, like we had on lenny
[15:35] <lool> zumbi: I would like to allow amy-to-any, but I'm not sure the Debian archive is the best place for this
[15:35] <lool> In Ubuntu, I understand only cross-armel will be provided
[15:35] <ogra> now who is amy ?
[15:35] <lool> on i386 and amd64
[16:36] <lag> robclark: ping
[16:36] <robclark> lag: pong
[16:37] <lag> robclark: Can you explain to me in simple terms what a lost-digit is please?
[16:37] <robclark> lag: basically I think it means that sync is lost..  although I'm not yet sure why it happens over and over a gazillion times
[16:39] <lag> Oh, you see that too?
[16:39] <lag> I thought it was just me and my weird monitor
[16:43] <lag> robclark: ?
[16:43] <robclark> lag: yeah..
[16:43] <robclark> (sorry, multitasking)
[16:44] <lag> Mythri's patch fixes this issue for me
[16:44] <robclark> yeah, I'm still cleaning up my patch, and then I need to rebase on mythripk's latest
[16:44] <robclark> I'm hoping that helps
[17:07] <hrw> ~curse libelf<>libelfg
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> lool - i'm not sure whether you noticed this already, but the jsid is getting mangled between frames 1 and 2 of https://pastebin.canonical.com/35036/
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> #1  0x2a043c86 in js_DefineNativeProperty (cx=0x2a0d6b80, obj=0x2a0f80c0,
[18:20] <chrisccoulson>     id=705479548, value=22, getter=0x2a03f695 <block_getProperty>,
[18:20] <chrisccoulson>     setter=0x2a03f631 <block_setProperty>, attrs=69, flags=4, shortid=0,
[18:20] <chrisccoulson>     propp=0x0, defineHow=0)
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> #2  0x2a0440a2 in js_DefineBlockVariable (cx=0x2a0cc37c, obj=0x2a0cc378,
[18:20] <chrisccoulson>     id=705523208, index=<value optimized out>)
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> the id parameters should be the same
[18:25] <chrisccoulson> in fact, all of the arguments passed to js_DefineNativeProperty are wrong
[18:26] <XorA> bah lucid x86 dual boot broken :-(
[18:27] <lool> chrisccoulson: Oh
[18:27] <lool> chrisccoulson: that's very interesting
[19:37] <jayabharath> all - Where can I find daily build images for OMAP4/ubuntu?
[19:45] <rsalveti> jayabharath: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-preinstalled/current
[19:46] <rsalveti> there you can find the omap 3 and omap 4 images
[19:47] <rsalveti> jayabharath: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ARM/PreinstalledImage if you need instructions to install it
[19:54] <jayabharath> rsalveti: thanks. Do these images work on OMAP4 Blaze platform?
[19:55] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: did you ever test this image on blaze?
[19:55] <rsalveti> jayabharath: I'm not sure, but I believe it should work
[19:56] <rsalveti> I just tested/saw it on a normal panda
[19:56] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: I don't have a blaze (yet).
[19:56] <jayabharath> I see... ogra should have it (my guess)
[19:56] <jayabharath> anyway will check it out and go from there
[19:57] <rsalveti> jayabharath: yeah, let us know if it worked or not
[19:57] <jayabharath> ok
[21:15] <Henk___> Hallo word de arm-wm8505 ondersteunt
[21:33] <Neko> boo
[21:58] <mpoirier> davidm ?
[23:10] <cwillu_at_work> segfaults in system-config-printer when poking at a windows network
[23:22] <pcacjr> cwillu_at_work: please, report the bug
[23:23] <cwillu_at_work> pcacjr, seems to be dups around, I'm still reading through them, and being distracted by other folks :p
[23:23] <pcacjr> cwillu_at_work, oh, i see. heh :-)
[23:37] <cwillu_at_work> pcacjr, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nss-mdns/+bug/370293 looks pretty similar
[23:37] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 370293 in nss-mdns (Ubuntu) "system-config-printer.py crashed with SIGSEGV in strlen@plt() (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 11)" [Medium,New]
[23:38] <cwillu_at_work> if I install apport, will I get a decent trace out of it?
[23:38] <pcacjr> cwillu_at_work, will take a look. i dunno..
[23:38] <pcacjr> just testing...
[23:39] <cwillu_at_work> I'm browsing for the printer, and it dies when I click on a hostname
[23:39] <cwillu_at_work> the hostnames themselves show up in the workgroup tree though
[23:39]  * pcacjr nods
[23:40] <pcacjr> i'm looking into it right now
[23:49] <cwillu_at_work> pcacjr, booting up a fresh card right now in case the card in question was the problem
[23:51] <cwillu_at_work> okay, it's not the card
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> might be privilege related
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> I need to test again, but the first attempt under root worked fine
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> (I'm generally working as an unprivileged user in lp and lpadmin groups)
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> I can provide you with ssh access to the box in question if you want
[23:53] <cwillu_at_work> nope, spoke too soon, died on the next machine I clicked on
[23:53] <cwillu_at_work> but that implies that it's not completely deterministic
[23:53] <cwillu_at_work> pcacjr, ^


[19:58] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: Hey, I just now remembered something that you may find important. One of the packages seeded in Ubuntu Studio, discodos, ships a binary, /usr/bin/disco (I believe). This binary is *also* shipped by one of the Mono packages (which get installed if you do "sudo apt install mono-complete"), not sure which package exactly. So discodos and Mono conflict. I've run into this a couple of times and ended up having to
[19:58] <arraybolt3> untangle the package manager afterwards, so you may want to add a "Conflicts:" in there if you manage that package (which I suspect you do). Maybe also have someone add a "Conflicts:" line in the Mono package, too.
[20:04] <krytarik> Turns out it's mono-devel
[22:23] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: I don't manage that package. You'll see by the versioning that it's completely upstream Debian.
[22:24] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: Ah. OK.
[22:31]  * Eickmeyer wonders who even uses discodos anymore...


[00:17] <TrueNhero> xubuntu on pandora, it is posible?
[00:40] <owen1> if i want the most efficient ubuntu, should i get the server version and add xorg?
[00:54] <_Techie_> no
[00:54] <_Techie_> install using the alternative cd
[00:54] <_Techie_> and install the minimal system
[00:54] <_Techie_> then add what you want from there
[00:56] <TrueNhero> can i have xubuntu with xvesa?
[00:56] <_Techie_> yes
[00:56] <_Techie_> !vesa
[00:56] <_Techie_> !xvesa
[00:56] <_Techie_> !x
[00:57] <_Techie_> hopefully one of thos efactiods will help you out a bit
[00:58] <_Techie_> TrueNhero,  if you have an xorg.conf you could just change the driver line
[00:58] <Aquina> 'lo
[00:58] <_Techie_> hello Aquina
[00:58] <Aquina> Has someone ever executed "sudo find / -xdev -type f -nogroup -print"?
[00:58] <Aquina> hello _Techie_
[00:58] <_Techie_> Aquina, no, what should it do?
[00:59] <Aquina> It for e.g. returned "/var/lib/doc-base/documents/gimp-help-de" which group is 999.
[00:59] <Aquina> I have NO such group. :-/
[00:59] <Aquina> It listed about 15 files... I'm gonna check the groups.
[01:00] <_Techie_> anyway, im gonna drop down a few runlevels and install a driver
[01:00] <Aquina> Yes, they all belogn to group 999.
[01:05] <Aquina> I had to execute "sudo apt-get install --reinstall aspell-de-alt aspell-de gimp-help-de" which changed the group back to root.
[01:05] <Aquina> *strange*!
[01:14] <ubuntu> Okay so I downloaded Xubuntu latest, burnt it to a cd, booted and... it looks exactly the same.  Same background, same theme and when I opened Firefox the welcome page said "Welcome to Ubuntu 9.10."
[01:14] <ubuntu> What gives?
[01:14] <_Techie_> did you download the correct version
[01:14] <wolfwalker_prime> Did someone forget to change the Firefox autostart?
[01:14] <wolfwalker_prime> No, when I hover the mouse over the Install button on the desktop it says "Install Xubuntu 10.04
[01:14] <wolfwalker_prime> "
[01:15] <wolfwalker_prime> But the Firefox default page said "Welcome to Xubuntu 9.10."
[01:16] <wolfwalker_prime> Where do you check versions from within Xubuntu?
[01:20] <wolfwalker_prime> Right.  Anyone else awake here?
[01:22] <schlaftier> wolfwalker_prime: lsb_release -r
[01:22] <schlaftier> or "lsb_release -a" if you want more output
[01:23] <wolfwalker_prime> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ lsb_release -r
[01:23] <wolfwalker_prime> Release:	10.04
[01:23] <wolfwalker_prime> Hmph.
[01:23] <wolfwalker_prime> Just nobody changed the background or updated the Firefox start page.  Fair enough.
[01:23] <wolfwalker_prime> Thanks schlaftier
[01:24] <schlaftier> my Firefox default page doesn't mention any version number
[01:24] <wolfwalker_prime> Well the second time I opened it, it went to the standard Google page.
[01:25] <wolfwalker_prime> But fire up the live cd and check.  First time you open Firefox it says welcome to Xubuntu 9.10.
[01:25] <schlaftier> yes, Google here
[01:25] <schlaftier> oh, not now :)
[02:21] <nbnds> hello everyone!
[02:52] <_Techie_> i need to initialise the preamp on my soundcard, driver module snd-ca0106.   does anybody know how to do this?
[03:48] <isaac_> Okay what gives with this?  I selected a lot of packages in Synaptic, selected File > Generate package download script.  It popped up a 30k file on the desktop.
[03:48] <isaac_> I tried everything I can to run it.  It won't download anything.
[03:48] <isaac_> Can someone rtfm me to a how-to?  Or is it still downloading and just won't dump it all in the file until it's done?
[03:51] <Aquina> What is " Generate package download script", isaac_?
[03:52] <owen1> cclausen: someone on #xubuntu told me the leanest way to install ubuntu is using the alternate CD and not the server.
[03:52] <isaac_> In theory it is supposed to be a way to, instead of installing a program in Synaptic, save it to install later, on another computer that is offline.
[03:54] <isaac_> Oh well, I gotta go to bed anyway.
[03:56] <bazhang> !clone
[05:04] <Prajwal> anyone can tell me when is 10.04.1 is scheduled to release?
[05:06] <bazhang> not known
[05:06] <_Techie_> when its ready
[05:07] <Prajwal> i will wait for that  release
[05:07] <Prajwal> it will overcome all the bugs
[05:08] <_Techie_> ive found lucid to be good for me so far, the only bugs ive come across are to do with my audio card and video card, and are not caused by ubuntu
[05:12] <hearforthepuns> my RAM usage at an idle desktop went from ~370MB in 9.10 to ~500MB after an upgrade to 10.04,  is this normal?
[05:12] <Prajwal> oh such a hype
[05:12] <_Techie_> did you upgrade or re install?
[05:13] <hearforthepuns> "after an upgrade to 10.04" ... upgraded through the Update Manager.  i usually do a clean install but i figured i'd give the upgrade a shot this time :)
[05:13] <_Techie_> run the computer janitor thingy
[05:14] <_Techie_> that may help with system performance
[05:14] <hearforthepuns> k..  system performance sucks now since I only have 512MB RAM! :(
[05:15] <_Techie_> im on the other end of the scale, i have 2gig RAM and abut 8 gig swap
[05:15] <_Techie_> sorry
[05:15] <_Techie_> 4.9gig swap
[05:16] <hearforthepuns> where would i find this computer janitor? it doesn't seem to be in my menus
[05:17] <_Techie_> uummm, i think it exists in xubuntu, truth be told, im running ubuntu
[05:17] <hearforthepuns> don't think it does exist
[05:17] <_Techie_> try running the command computer-janitor-gtk
[05:18] <hearforthepuns> installing...
[05:22] <hearforthepuns> hrmm, that just says it wants to remove a bunch of packages that i'm still using
[05:22] <hearforthepuns> none of which is taking up my ram right now
[05:23] <_Techie_>  odd
[07:43] <crow> where are bootchart located? i did clean install and just apt-get install bootchart..
[07:45] <crow> found it lol, /var/log/bootchart/
[08:20] <dorianxlii> Can anyone tell me where 10.04 stores the GTK themes now?  I can't find it.
[08:29] <dorianxlii> Anyone?  Anyone at all?
[08:30] <Besogon> I haven't installed 10.4 yet
[08:31] <dorianxlii> It's a nice version, but they've moved things around.
[08:33] <Besogon> may be. but if it's done, I'll have to compile octave again...
[08:35] <dorianxlii> I literally only installed it a few hours ago.  So, it looks the same, but everything is in different places.  I'm still getting my bearings.
[08:36] <Besogon> Has the included alacarte in xfce version of 10.04?
[08:36] <Besogon> Has they included alacarte in xfce version of 10.04?
[08:36] <dorianxlii> I'll look...
[08:37] <dorianxlii> No, but it's available through the repositories.
[08:39] <Besogon> alacarte is little program but extrimly essential. try if it's works. They had intended to make it work half a year ago...
[08:40] <Besogon> oh my bab english....
[08:40] <Besogon> bad
[08:40] <Besogon> ))))
[08:40] <dorianxlii> I understand you, don't worry.
[08:40] <dorianxlii> ...Wait... What does this alacarte do?
[08:41] <Besogon> alacarte lets  you edit main menu
[08:41] <dorianxlii> Ah.  Yeah, I'll be installing that.  The menu hasn't worked quite the way I want it for a few versions now.
[08:42] <dorianxlii> It has a lot of requirements, mostly of Gnome.  For Xubuntu, that's a tall order.
[08:45] <dorianxlii> Ah, I can see why Xubuntu is hesitant to install alacarte now...
[08:47] <dorianxlii> No.  It does not work right.
[08:48] <_Techie_> im gonna boot into windows now, see ya all soon
[08:48] <Besogon> alacarte was written with python. It should work anyway. One serious problem with it is that alacarte is working with some specific files (application.menu) yet this file in Xfce is named in other name
[08:50] <Besogon> may be it would be enaugh to make links from xfce-menu to gnome-menu files. just linls. I didn't try it actually. but you can if you is interested
[08:51] <dorianxlii> Nah.  Tell you the truth I figured out what I needed to and I'm off now.  The themes are now kept in /usr/share/themes and you need to be root to install new ones.
[10:35] <handjob> Another day another suprise. I upgraded yesterday. I almost fixed the sound issue, however, taday I am unable to use normal ressolution and only lower is available.
[10:36] <handjob> I am using nvidia.
[10:36] <handjob> Any suggestions?
[10:36] <Besogon> Did you reinatll nvidia driver?
[10:36] <Besogon> reinstall
[10:37] <Besogon> You should do it any time when change a kernel.
[10:37] <Sysi> nouveau is working fine with me
[10:38] <psycho_oreos> though I'm sure generally ubuntu handles it via dkms
[10:39] <handjob> Thx for information. I totaly forgot about that. Reinstalling now. Thx again.
[10:41] <Sysi> it should work automatically if driver is installed with ubuntu's tool
[10:41] <Sysi> (as it should be done)
[10:43] <handjob> Well it does, however, what else can i do?
[10:44] <handjob> Do i need to reinstall all the listed packages? http://pastebin.com/LY7qP869
[10:55] <Besogon> handjob, I don't determind but you said you had nvidia-173-modaliases, nvidia-185-modaliases, nvidia-96-modaliases. And at the same time you use nvidia-173 driver. May be deleting all of it and install properly driver from driver installer will help
[10:58] <handjob> Besogon, Mostly strange, I haven't noticed. Only time when i was installing drivers was in the begining. Maybe i should do so. Thx.
[11:02] <crow> what does this mean: [ 72.630041] Clocksource tsc unstable (delta = -409012042 ns) <- found in dmesg
[11:36] <psycho_oreos> crow, nothing serious to worry about
[11:40] <Prajwal> i just tried xubuntu 10.04 and its not starting
[11:40] <Prajwal> i get the boot menu and then i get throwed to a blank screen
[11:41] <Prajwal> i use xubuntu 9.10 and i have no problem with it
[11:42] <Prajwal> i use it on virtual box
[11:44] <Prajwal> _Techie_, can you help me out?
[11:44] <_Techie_> wow, dont i just have the perfect name
[11:45] <_Techie_> umm, no at this time i unfortanately cannot help you out
[11:45] <Prajwal> ^_^
[11:45] <crow> psycho_oreos i just cheked this: cat /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/available_clocksource and output is only: acpi_pm <- so i should chnage that tsc to acpi_pm right? just where
[11:45] <Prajwal> ahh ok
[11:45] <_Techie_> while i have seen this problem a few times with a few different users, i still dont know of the exact cause or a fix
[11:46] <Prajwal> oh im not the only one facing this issue
[11:46] <_Techie_> no
[11:46] <Prajwal> for me i have a 4gb ram i guess live cd should work good enough
[11:46] <psycho_oreos> crow, I wouldn't go changing that file
[11:47] <_Techie_> are you using the 64bit version?
[11:47] <Prajwal> 32bit
[11:47] <_Techie_> hrmm
[11:48] <_Techie_> i know this is stupid because 32bit code can run on a 64bit core, but have you tried the 64bit liveCD?
[11:48] <Prajwal> no
[11:48] <_Techie_> or
[11:48] <_Techie_> you could try lower your RAM to under 3 gigs
[11:48] <Prajwal> eh??
[11:49] <_Techie_> its a stab in the dark, but it may be a problem with adressing memory
[11:49] <Prajwal> i tried even that on virtual box
[11:49] <Sysi> i think ram *can't* be an issue
[11:49] <Prajwal> setting a 700mb ram
[11:49] <crow> psycho_oreos i didnt changed that file, i just use it to get output, i should put: clocksource=acpi_pm to kernel boot, but not shure where.. /etc/default/grub seems now correct place
[11:49] <_Techie_> okay, then im at a blank again
[11:49] <Prajwal> looks like i have to wait for 10.04.1 :P
[11:49] <Prajwal> what i always do
[11:50] <Sysi> Prajwal: so are you trying it on virtualbox?
[11:50] <Prajwal> yes
[11:50] <Prajwal> even live cd isnt working
[11:50] <_Techie_> Sysi, although RAM shouldnt be a problem, 32bit can only adress abotu 3gig of RAM so there is a possibility that a bug could surface
[11:50] <Sysi> you could try live cd directly
[11:51] <Sysi> virtual machines are alvays.. special
[11:51] <Prajwal> Sysi, even that doesnt work
[11:51] <_Techie_> hrmm
[11:51] <psycho_oreos> its most likely acpi issue
[11:51] <Prajwal> wow wait a min after 20mins my virtual box flashes something
[11:51] <_Techie_> what about the alternate CD?
[11:51] <Prajwal> 9.10 works fine
[11:51] <_Techie_> ooh Prajwal whats it doing?
[11:52] <_Techie_> whats it flashing at ya?
[11:53] <Prajwal> i got the screen
[11:53] <Prajwal> but its idle ...stuck up
[11:53] <_Techie_> hrmm
[11:53] <_Techie_> my suggestion is just to loave it loading
[11:53] <_Techie_> maybe it will start working... who knows
[11:54] <Prajwal> ya what i usually do
[11:55] <Prajwal> btw Im from #matriux
[12:13] <Prajwal> now everything is fast and flawless ...it will make a great system if that start up thingy is fixed
[12:14] <_Techie_> Prajwal, glad it worked for you in the end
[12:15] <Prajwal> ya it did :)
[12:15] <Prajwal> looks like grub needs few changes
[12:16] <Prajwal> i will remove that usplash
[12:16] <_Techie_> !grub2
[12:40] <Sysi> still problems seeing removable drives in lucid
[12:40] <Sysi> i heard that reboot/relogin could help but i just mounted by hand
[12:41] <_Techie_> Sysi, if you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself
[12:42] <Prajwal> _Techie_, same issue after installation too :(
[14:17] <k456> Hi
[14:32] <maitrebn> Hi !
[14:33] <maitrebn> I'm passing from ubuntu to xubuntu and I'm wondering where is the "system menu" ? I would to change application when amovible media are inserted ...
[14:35] <hatake_kakashi> look for Applications
[14:36] <maitrebn> hatake_kakashi, i found Applications ...
[14:46] <Presario2500> hello
[14:46] <Presario2500> how can I see what my computer's specs (processor/ram/hd) in Xubuntu?
[14:50] <Presario2500> oh I got it, lshw
[14:51] <Presario2500> if I am running Xubuntu 9.10 on 2.3Ghz, will Xubuntu 10.4 run slower?  not sure if I should upgrade or not
[15:18] <TomJ> how can I clear out my xubuntu session settings so they're back to defaults - using the command line ?
[15:18] <TomJ> (version 9.10)
[15:25] <kutagh> Okay. Having issues with trying to install Xubuntu 10.04 on my laptop. Inserted the DVD (burned ISO to DVD) and restarted laptop. It then goes on to the language selection menu and the options menu, where I can first pick the language and then choose "Try out Xubuntu without installing", "Install Xubuntu", "Check the disc for errors" and such.
[15:26] <kutagh> At that point, the first two (Try out Xubuntu/Install Xubuntu) just.. hang
[15:26] <kutagh> I gave it several minutes without any visible progress.
[15:27]  * kutagh tries to get some attention
[15:27] <kutagh> anyone??
[15:48] <TomJ> what application gives the background / dekstop icons in xfce?
[15:49] <TomJ> ah, xfdesktop
[15:57] <bitModulous> hello
[15:57] <TomJ> lol, if you click "Save Session" in xfce settings manager, then it saves the fact that the session manger is open..
[15:58] <bitModulous> does anyone know how to change your keyboard shortcuts on the new 10.04
[16:03] <bitModulous> ?
[16:14] <bitMod> I guess that no one has played w/ the 10.04 settings editor ? I want to create a shortcut for my terminal. It should be trivial, but I can't find the add new shortcut button
[16:14] <bitMod> keyboard shortcut
[16:14] <bitMod> thats is
[16:55] <LinuxGuy2009> Is Xubuntu 10.04 an LTS like ubuntu and kubuntu are?
[17:10] <xGrind> thunar is bugged
[17:14] <bcgrown> Where do I add a custom X session to the login menu?
[18:01] <crow> whats needed to install sun java ? i am trying sudo aptitude install sun-java6-jre sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts <-- but no packages is found..
[18:02] <Prajwal> crow i guess you have to try gettinh it from sun website
[18:05] <Peacimowen> well that didn't work so well... Just upgraded. and now I'm stuck at low resolution with no colour.. just B&W
[18:05] <Prajwal> Peacimowen, graphic card?
[18:06] <Peacimowen> nvidia
[18:07] <cr0w_> Peacimowen hmm why it isnt anymore in repo.. weird
[18:07] <Peacimowen> GeForce 7200
[18:18] <Prajwal> !panel
[18:30] <Peacimowen> >.>
[19:35] <Kutagh> People active here?
[19:35] <Sysi> !ask
[19:36] <Kutagh> Jeezus... For some reason Xubuntu doesn't want to boot... First the normal install CD for Xubuntu doesn't want to install, I installed it with the Alternate CD, now rebooted.... And it got stuck after the logo...... Using the old Ubuntu disc I got, it actually booted into the Live CD environment (which the Xubuntu 10.04 one couldn't ....)
[19:37] <Kutagh> want me to be more detailed?
[19:44] <taleman> running xubuntu 10.04 and the panels disappeared
[19:45] <taleman> anyone?
[19:46] <Kutagh> Jeezus... For some reason Xubuntu doesn't want to boot... First the normal install CD for Xubuntu doesn't want to install, I installed it with the Alternate CD, now rebooted.... And it got stuck after the logo...... Using the old Ubuntu disc I got, it actually booted into the Live CD environment (which the Xubuntu 10.04 one couldn't ....)
[19:52] <taleman> I tried xfce-panels and i got a floating point exception
[19:56] <taleman> does anyone know how to get the panels back  in xubuntu?
[19:56] <Sysi> !panels
[19:56] <Sysi> didn't work?
[19:56] <taleman> i get a floating point exception
[19:59] <taleman> yea the panels flicker then disappear, if i run the command in a terminal then i get a floating point exception message
[20:00] <Kutagh> >	Jeezus... For some reason Xubuntu doesn't want to boot... First the normal install CD for Xubuntu doesn't want to install, I installed it with the Alternate CD, now rebooted.... And it got stuck after the logo...... Using the old Ubuntu disc I got, it actually booted into the Live CD environment (which the Xubuntu 10.04 one couldn't ....)
[20:05] <taleman> any idea what might be causing the floating point exception?
[20:29] <ryan_languagelab> hey all... I upgraded to 10.4 and was messing around with the window manager themes. I selected one of them (can't remember which) and I was immediatley logged out of my Xfce session and now cannot log back in
[20:29] <ryan_languagelab> it seems like X is failing with that window manager theme but i've checked the X.org logs and can't see anything obvious... where should I start looking?
[20:30] <ryan_languagelab> also....where does Xubuntu store the window manager theme settings... I will gladly change it back to "Albatross"
[20:37] <ryan_languagelab> Hello?
[20:46] <ryan_languagelab> hello?
[21:04] <Sysi> seems that we have bug in some theme
[21:04] <Sysi> i was in sauna, i would have known that :/
[21:46] <abhifx> hi there. my plymouth doesnt work with the error could not connect to plymouth. can anyone help?
[23:19] <_Techie_> Sysi, know anything about recompiling kernel modules
[23:43] <chookie> ok..
[23:44] <chookie> im trying to install xubuntu 9.10 PPC on a ps3.....
[23:44] <chookie> it hangs at "deregistering" usb.....why?
[23:48] <_Techie_> chookie, i have knowledge of PPC based systems, but not PS3's
[23:51] <dankuss> damn
[23:51] <dankuss> its the same as a PPC, but somereason it hangs at "deregistering"