[00:35] <roberth1990> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaucyUpgrades/Kubuntu step 2 in the first part what is that? I cant seem get any help from google
[01:16] <chris5000> anyone here?
[01:54] <roberth1990> anyone else had the problem with booting kubuntu 13.10 beta1 installation medium that you just end up in busybox?
[03:08] <harolddong> IS anybody else having a problem connecting to facebook in the messengers? for the last few days I haven't been able to connect with either kopete or kde contacts. I'm wondering if it is just a facebook chat problem and if there is a setting I can change to make it work again.
[05:04] <dariusc7> I know what most would say about 13.10 not a stable release but i was testing the kubuntu 13.10 beta and notice i get a segfault when using software-properties-kde.  Any fix for it? I tried googling but not to much information about it accept one thread which wasnt much use
[05:07] <Guest27111> dariusc7: did you run it in gdb to get a backtrace?
[06:40] <ik_> slania
[09:32] <mparillo> roberth1990: I think the point of step 2) Select Install Updates. is to ensure that before you upgrade to 13.10, your 13.04 is up-to-date.
[10:05] <mattia> !list
[10:42] <GeorgeMilnes> Afternoon
[11:40] <marcuspbaird> hey guys whats the kubuntu dev room
[11:40] <marcuspbaird> want to report a bug
[11:41] <monkeyjuice> #kubuntu-devel
[11:47] <marcuspbaird> thanks
[12:52] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[13:01] <ik_> kubuntu is the best
[14:21] <EvilRoey> hi
[14:22] <EvilRoey> how do I know which number version of Kubuntu I am running?
[14:22] <EvilRoey> thanks
[14:25] <BluesKaj> EvilRoey, lsb_release -a
[14:25] <BluesKaj> or -r
[14:25] <EvilRoey> `ah, thank you!
[14:26] <EvilRoey> alright
[14:26] <EvilRoey> so I am on Precise.
[14:26] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj:  How do I upgrade to Quantal from ehre?  do_release_upgrade doesn't detect a newer available version of Kubuntu..
[14:27] <BluesKaj> EvilRoey, which version are you on ?
[14:27] <GeorgeMilnes> apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[14:27] <GeorgeMilnes> update-manager -d
[14:27] <GeorgeMilnes> idk
[14:27] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj:  12.04
[14:27] <BluesKaj> no, GeorgeMilnes that just upgrades the packages
[14:27] <EvilRoey> 12.04.3 LTS.
[14:27] <GeorgeMilnes> aye
[14:28] <BluesKaj> EvilRoey, make sure the upgrade manager doesn't have upgrade LTS only enabled
[14:28] <EvilRoey> ohhh ok
[14:28] <GeorgeMilnes> I tend to go for fresh installs on new major releases, but probably a pain for some.
[14:29] <EvilRoey> robotfuel:  *NICE* nick
[14:30] <LyzardKing> is there a synaptiks alternative on kubuntu?
[14:31] <LyzardKing> it's not mantained any more
[14:31] <GeorgeMilnes> muon package manager is nice
[14:32] <LyzardKing> not synaptic, synaptiks is the touchpad settings manager
[14:32] <GeorgeMilnes> LOL
[14:32] <GeorgeMilnes> my bad
[14:32] <GeorgeMilnes> tired eyes..
[14:32] <BluesKaj> LyzardKing, synaptiks or synaptic ?
[14:32] <LyzardKing> synaptiks
[14:33] <BluesKaj> search muon LyzardKing
[14:34] <GeorgeMilnes> he said not synaptic BluesKaj
[14:35] <BluesKaj> GeorgeMilnes, no need to correct me , IO saw that afterwards
[14:35] <GeorgeMilnes> :)
[14:35] <LyzardKing> yes I've read that it's now unmaintained, and on kde 4.11 it's not working
[14:36] <BluesKaj> !touchpad
[14:38] <BluesKaj> that factoid is old , unfortunately , better off to type it into muon search and see what appears
[14:38] <LyzardKing> yeah, not much actually...
[14:40] <BluesKaj> well, I can't help much more since this is a desktop
[14:56] <ovidiu-florin> are there localized kubuntu IRC channels?
[14:57] <tsimpson> there are
[14:59] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj:  you were right; the moment I switched my selection from notify me "for new long-term releases" to "for any update", it detected that 12.10 is available.
[14:59] <EvilRoey> and I am upgrading to it now.
[15:00] <tsimpson> ovidiu-florin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList#line-88
[15:00] <ovidiu-florin> so there isn't one for romania
[15:01] <ovidiu-florin> can someone please clarify this to me, is Kubuntu a different distribution than Ubuntu or not? if it is, then why is so much of kubuntu's stuff hosted at Ubuntu's sites?
[15:02] <tsimpson> depends on your definition of "distribution", we use the term flavour (or flavor)
[15:02] <tsimpson> !flavour
[15:02] <tsimpson> !flavor
[15:03] <tsimpson> all the flavours use the same base, and differ in the default packages they install
[15:10] <GeorgeMilnes> tsimpson: In theory they aren't the same base as ubuntu uses GTK and KDE uses QT
[15:10] <GeorgeMilnes> *i think*
[15:11] <GeorgeMilnes> ovidiu-florin: It is a flavour, based on the KDE4 desktop
[15:11] <GeorgeMilnes> I find it a lot faster than ubuntu.
[15:21] <tsimpson> GeorgeMilnes: Ubuntu uses Qt too these days
[15:21] <tsimpson> (Unity)
[15:24] <GeorgeMilnes> Ah does ti !
[15:24] <GeorgeMilnes> it*
[15:24] <GeorgeMilnes> I wasn't too bothered when they left Gnome2 for Unity
[15:25] <GeorgeMilnes> The Gnome3Fallback fork was awful also
[15:39] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj:  is the way to upgrade from, say, 11.whatever to 13.04 to upgrade one revision at a time?
[15:39] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj:  i.e. there is no way to upgrade to the latest version?
[15:39] <EvilRoey> *to upgrade directly to the latest release, bypassing the intermediate ones.
[15:44] <BluesKaj> EvilRoey, do a clean install , backup your home directory , install OS to / and creat a /home partition if you haven't already , then jumping over releases is easier in the future
[15:50] <EvilRoey> ok
[15:50] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj: so essentially it's not worth it to try and upgrade from one release to another
[15:50] <EvilRoey> if it the new relesae is much newer than the current install on your box
[15:56] <BluesKaj> EvilRoey, it's bad practice , it will mess up your install , one has tupgrade in sequence if release upgrading is the method you want to use
[15:56] <BluesKaj> to upgrade in sequence
[15:57] <EvilRoey> ok, then I am glad that I did this then.
[15:57] <EvilRoey> *that I took your approach
[15:58] <EvilRoey> I remember twenty years ago being just as thrilled looking at the computer parts advertisements
[15:58] <EvilRoey> in trying to figure out how to buy my next desktop
[15:58] <EvilRoey> BluesKaj:  I remember going through software/debian/kubuntu upgrade sagas
[15:58] <EvilRoey> it's like this stuff hasn't changed :)
[16:47] <roberth1990> hello, I have downloaded a .deb package and I wish to install through a shell. what tool and command do I use to do that?
[16:49] <wotan> dpkg -i package.deb
[16:50] <roberth1990> wotan: thanks
[17:14] <ram-sharma> hi
[17:54] <lordievader> Good evening.
[18:24] <ed854tyjh> Hi anyone know how to map mouse keys (4, 5 and 6) to certain fucntions (specificaly in firefox to zoom in, out, and default) ?
[18:25] <ed854tyjh> that would be ctrl + , ctrl - and  ctrl 0
[18:30] <BluesKaj> ed854tyjh, to zoom in and out on any browser use the ctrl + or - keys
[18:31] <BluesKaj> they should already be mapped
[18:33] <ed854tyjh> they are but I want to set my mouse keys to do that
[18:43] <BluesKaj> ed854tyjh, oh sorry , I misread
[18:44] <BluesKaj> <---doesn't use a fancy mouse
[18:45] <ed854tyjh> I am now trying to do something with iamwheel after unsuccessful attempts with xbind-keys
[18:48] <lordievader> ed854tyjh: You can make a workaround with xdotools, but that ain't a pretty work around ;)
[18:50] <mr-rich> Latest updates to 12.04 LTS. My transparent theme is no longer transparent ... any clues?
[19:02] <yasser> jh
[19:03] <geri> hi how can i backup my linux kernel?
[19:08] <BluesKaj> geri, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1601219
[19:48] <inet> ?
[20:25] <snaketong> hey there, I just installed kubuntu and I can't seem to find the setting to change the resolution of my screen, any idea ?
[20:30] <snaketong> nevermind guys I got it
[21:31] <Meatyboy> Howdy. This might be a dumb question, but how do I move my taskbar (recent conversion from Windows) from the top to align to the left side of the screen?
[21:47] <Authority> Meatyboy: with widgets unlocked, click on the little "bean" at the end of the panel you want to move, then use "screen edge" button to drag it to the edge you want it to attach to
[21:51] <Meatyboy> Ahhh, there we go, thanks much. Still on a learning curve. I've played with much older versions of Ubuntu and Debian, just thought I'd give Kubuntu a try. Enjoying it a lot so far, just on a severe learning curve.
[22:57] <veryhappy> hi guys, i'm sorry to bother you, but perhaps anyone can help with this crap of wallet. it always fucks in between while i'm drumming in hydrogen.
[22:57] <veryhappy> i don't want to be asked for a password all the time while i'm drumming, that's annoying.
[23:12] <veryhappy> well, irc isn't as full anymore as it used to be.
[23:36] <Meatyboy> One more question. Is there an iTunes clone/alternative that I can use to load my iPhone with music(audio books)?
[23:37] <Meatyboy> I tried installing SongBird recommended from an old thread, but I think songbird is about dead for Ubuntu type clones, at least I couldn't get it to install... So, any suggestions?
[23:40] <dave__> ping
[23:40] <dave__> ..
[23:42] <shadeslayer> Meatyboy: I think amarok might work
[23:42] <shadeslayer> it works with iPods
[23:42] <shadeslayer> and if you want the iTunes 'look' then Tomahawk
[23:43] <Meatyboy> I'll give it a try. Hadn't really attached my phone to my laptop yet. figured with windows you needed iTunes to add or detract
[23:43] <shadeslayer> well, I know for a fact that Amarok works with iPods
[23:43] <shadeslayer> no idea about phones
[23:45] <Meatyboy> Personally, I hate iTunes, it's overly conveluted and about useless.
[23:46] <shadeslayer> I wish everything just used mass storage modes and you can just copy over files
[23:47] <shadeslayer> anyway, gtg, there's #amarok if you need more help with amarok
[23:47] <Meatyboy> I'll give it a try and try and figure it out on my own. I appreciate the help.


[00:00] <pleia2> ok, meeting time!
[00:00] <darkhole> Hi.
[00:00] <pleia2> who all from the council is about?
[00:01] <pleia2> atoponce, pedro_
[00:01] <pleia2> vorian?
[00:01] <atoponce> present
[00:01]  * pedro_ waves
[00:05] <pleia2> ok, we have quorum!
[00:05] <cody-somerville> \o/
[00:06] <MagicFab> hi all
[00:06] <atoponce> sweet
[00:06] <darkhole> hi
[00:06] <MagicFab> 4:30am here in Delhi, hoping it's worth it :)
[00:07] <pleia2> hollman: are you here?
[00:07] <atoponce> it's alwaysworth it
[00:07] <hollman> ye
[00:07] <hollman> *yes
[00:07] <hollman> hello
[00:07] <pleia2> hollman: ok, you're up :)
[00:07] <pleia2> brief intro + links please
[00:07] <hollman> ok
[00:09] <pleia2> hollman?
[00:10] <atoponce> hollman: still with us?
[00:10] <hollman> Hollman enciso from Bogota Colombia, estudent before of Ing. of systems contact administrator Ur-Co
[00:10] <hollman> https://edge.launchpad.net/~hollman
[00:10] <hollman> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HollmanEnciso
[00:11] <MagicFab> hollman has been my protege for some time now :) he ROCKS - I passed him the torch when I stepped down being a loco contact for u-co
[00:12] <hollman> :D
[00:12] <MagicFab> he's a bit English-shy so be a bit patient :)
[00:13] <atoponce> np
[00:13] <pleia2> reading wiki page now, nice work hollman :)
[00:13] <atoponce> hollman: where do you see yourself with ubuntu in the next 2 years? in other words, what's the primary thing you'll be doing to contribute to ubuntu?
[00:13] <hollman> pleia2, tnks
[00:13] <MagicFab> In fact we were discussing how memberships can be evaluated for people that don't speak English at all (just sayin')
[00:14] <pleia2> MagicFab: something to be brought up to the CC, I expect
[00:15] <MagicFab> pleia2, we have a few candidates in ubuntu-co :D
[00:15] <hollman> I see like a leader ypersona recognized Colombia level with the enlos projects that work and that seguire working
[00:15] <darkhole> :) big person!!
[00:16] <atoponce> hollman: you do a lot of translations! very nice! good launchpad karma, and good wiki page.
[00:16] <cody-somerville> hollman, when did you first start contributing to Ubuntu?
[00:17] <hollman> cody-somerville, hummm since 2006
[00:17] <hollman> excuseme in 2007
[00:17] <hollman> flisol 2007 Bogota Colombia
[00:18] <MagicFab> I had a hard time convincing him & darkhole to apply ;)
[00:18] <hollman> in 2006 i only help the people on mailing list
[00:19] <darkhole> jeje..
[00:19] <hollman> recently i work in the first ubucon with all the u-co community
[00:20] <hollman> and darkhole
[00:20] <atoponce> hollman: what does it mean to you to be an ubuntu member?
[00:20] <hollman> are going to be the first big event of Ubuntu in Bogota
[00:21] <pedro_> hollman: so the what's are your future plans? cuales son tus planes a futuro? you can answer in spanish if you like to
[00:21] <hollman> Pride, work, ..
[00:21] <pedro_> i'll translate that for you
[00:21] <pedro_> s/the/ /
[00:21] <hollman> :P
[00:22] <hollman> Espero poder liderar el Ubuntu-co por un muy buen tiempo, seguir sacandolo adelante y que seamos reconocidos como una comunidad en Colombia
[00:23] <cody-somerville> +1 para el trabajo loco del equipo y la evidencia de liderazgo
[00:24] <pleia2> great work hollman :) +1
[00:24] <pedro_> continue leading the ubuntu-co team for a long time and make them being recognized as a community in Colombia
[00:24] <pedro_> yeah +1 from here also
[00:25] <atoponce> definitely. +1
[00:25] <pleia2> congrats hollman!
[00:25] <hollman> thanks all
[00:25] <hollman> :D
[00:25]  * MagicFab waves!!
[00:25] <atoponce> hollman: congrats
[00:26] <pleia2> darkhole: upi
[00:26] <pleia2> bha
[00:26] <pedro_> congrats hollman ;-)
[00:26] <pleia2> typing
[00:26] <pleia2> darkhole: you're up :)
[00:26]  * atoponce notes that the hotel wireless is being spotty, and may be slow to respond
[00:26] <hollman> gracias a todos, y creanme que todos los dias trabajare en pro de Ubuntu como lo he venido haciendo
[00:26] <darkhole> Ok
[00:26] <darkhole> Great hollman!!!
[00:26] <darkhole> Mmm..
[00:27] <darkhole> Hi, I'm Julian Alarcon, from Colombia, i'm part of the Colombian Team.. I'm now an admin of this LoCo Team and also an official translator of Ubuntu to Spanish, now I'm workng at the side of Hollman like admins of Ubuntu-Co
[00:27] <darkhole> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Juli%C3%A1nAlarc%C3%B3n
[00:27] <darkhole> https://edge.launchpad.net/~alarconj/
[00:27]  * pleia2 likes "plant a tree" :)
[00:28] <darkhole> jeje..
[00:28] <pedro_> what kind of tree ? :P
[00:28] <darkhole> some from here, bogota city..
[00:28] <MagicFab> darkhole helped a lot define many processes we have in Ubuntu-co - we came up with a specific process to prepare our loco members for Ubuntu membership
[00:28] <darkhole> we always have a meeting, like admins, to organize the Team..
[00:29] <atoponce> darkhole: are you looking to becoming a motu? you mention teaching packageing on your wiki
[00:29] <darkhole> Yes..
[00:29] <hollman> thanks to darkhole who has more experience than me, we have streamlined many processes and projects of co-U
[00:30] <darkhole> I like his.. but I have to practice first :) (with my ppa)
[00:30] <darkhole> In Ubuntu-Co we have in ths days many traffic of the mailing list..
[00:30] <darkhole> We have 400+ people in the ist..
[00:31] <pedro_> darkhole: how did you get involved with the translation team?
[00:31] <MagicFab> I *love* these guys. Their work means I was able to almost disappear from u-co as I went to other projects
[00:31] <darkhole> Mmm, I was working in Suse Team..
[00:31] <darkhole> TYranslating the wiki..
[00:31] <darkhole> But, i was alone..
[00:31] <darkhole> jeje..
[00:32] <darkhole> I don't feel the community work. so, I try Ubuntu when I have Internet connection
[00:32] <atoponce> darkhole: what would it mean to you to be an ubuntu member? what will you do with this membership?
[00:33] <darkhole> I like this, this will make me. first.. happy :)
[00:33] <atoponce> k. :) after that?
[00:33] <lfaraone> Hey, I'm Luke Faraone. I'm part of the DC LoCo team. I've promoted Ubuntu at various fests, as well as help to triage and fix some bugs. In this cycle, I've been working to get the Sugar Project <http://sugarlabs.org> 's packages up-to-date in Intrepid.
[00:33] <darkhole> And, very responsible..
[00:33] <lfaraone> (oops, pressed enter too soon()
[00:33] <darkhole> I'm (with hollman) the Team's examples to follow..
[00:34] <darkhole> And, with more desire to continue working for Ubuntu
[00:34] <atoponce> darkhole: it's a big responsibility. memberships mean a lot where i come from.
[00:34] <darkhole> I like so much the community environment, in everywhere.. :)
[00:34] <atoponce> if you think you did a lot of work now, wait until you become a member. :)
[00:35] <darkhole> Jeje, here, a Gift form Ubuntu-Co.
[00:35] <darkhole> http://picasaweb.google.es/hollman.enciso/CampusPartyDias6Y7#5217907463142633458
[00:36] <darkhole> Ubuntu passion!!
[00:36] <hollman> yea!!!
[00:36] <MagicFab> atoponce, careful what you wish for :) darkhole is relentless
[00:36] <atoponce> heh
[00:36] <cody-somerville> +1
[00:37] <pleia2> +1
[00:37] <atoponce> +1
[00:37] <pedro_> +1
[00:37] <darkhole> :p
[00:37] <pleia2> congrats darkhole! :)
[00:38]  * MagicFab pours the Aguardiente del Valle
[00:38] <darkhole> !!! :)
[00:38]  * pedro_ hugs the colombian community
[00:38] <darkhole> thanks pedro!!
[00:38] <Technoviking> hi all
[00:38] <hollman> thnks pedro_
[00:38] <darkhole> thanks MagicFab.. and thanks to all folks
[00:39] <pleia2> ok lfaraone, you can go now :)
[00:39] <lfaraone> pleia2: heh, thanks.
[00:40] <lfaraone> I'm Luke Faraone. I'm part of the DC LoCo team. I've promoted Ubuntu at various fests, as well as help to triage and fix some bugs. In this cycle, I've been working to get the Sugar Project <http://sugarlabs.org> 's packages up-to-date in Intrepid.
[00:40] <lfaraone> (as I've already said... :)
[00:40] <atoponce> :)
[00:40] <lfaraone> http://launchpad.net/~lfaraone , and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeFaraone are my links.
[00:41] <pleia2> lfaraone: what are your immediate plans, and more long term ones?
[00:43] <lfaraone> pleia2: Well, I plan on working better with upstream for the next cycle in getting those packages in the repos before feature freeze (we had to get a FFE last time), and eventually (in a year or so) plan to apply for MOTU.
[00:43] <pleia2> cool
[00:44] <atoponce> lfaraone: i see a lot of work with sugar labs. what else have you contributed?
[00:44] <lfaraone> atoponce: I've been triaging a bit.
[00:44] <pleia2> lfaraone: you didn't happen to go to HOPE with maco and everyone, did you?
[00:44] <lfaraone> atoponce: I'm also very active in ubuntu promotion, I've helped other members do installfests and handed out CDs on SFD.
[00:44] <crimsun> Speaking as a former Ubuntu core dev who is mentoring Like in bug triaging alongside Mackenzie "maco" Morgan - he's a quick learner.  Not only has he been enthusiastic about helping "evangelise Ubuntu" for quite some time, but he does so consistently, helpfully, and graciously.
[00:45] <crimsun> Luke, even.  I can't type.
[00:45] <atoponce> crimsun: cool. thx
[00:45] <lfaraone> pleia2: No, I missed it.
[00:46] <lfaraone> pleia2: But I'd like to be able to go next time.
[00:46] <pleia2> cool, just curious :)
[00:46] <pleia2> lfaraone: do much work with the dc loco?
[00:46] <lfaraone> pleia2: Yes, I've helped with a lot of their events recently.
[00:47] <mattva01> pleia2: I can confirm that he has been very helpful at DC Loco events
[00:47] <pleia2> great :)
[00:48] <atoponce> lfaraone: what will ubuntu membership mean to you?
[00:48] <maco> ive got a photo of him at the Takoma Park Folk Festival, where we were tabling...but I left my camera at home, so i cant imagebin it right now...oops
[00:48] <pleia2> maco: no visual proof then? hmm ;)
[00:48] <maco> crimsun took the photo, ask him
[00:49] <pleia2> hehe
[00:49]  * MagicFab loves imagebinettes :)
[00:49] <lfaraone> pleia2: It'd mean I'd be able to contribute more to the community,
[00:50] <atoponce> +1 here
[00:50] <pleia2> excellent work lfaraone, looking forward to your future work too +1
[00:50] <Technoviking> +1
[00:50] <mattva01> +1
[00:51] <cody-somerville> +1
[00:51] <pedro_> yeah +1
[00:51] <pleia2> congrats lfaraone!
[00:51] <atoponce> lfaraone: congrats
[00:51] <lfaraone> pleia2, atoponce, pedro_, Thanks so much!
[00:51] <darkhole> im happy, you are happy, we are happy!!
[00:52] <lfaraone> And you too, mattva01 and maco :)
[00:52] <pleia2> great work everyone
[00:53] <atoponce> congrats everyone! keep up the great work
[00:53] <darkhole> Thanks..
[00:53] <darkhole> We will..
[00:53] <darkhole> Bye!
[00:53] <darkhole> See u..
[00:53] <lfaraone> Bye, darkhole.
[00:54] <maco> lfaraone: dont forget to do your dcteam 5adays ;)
[00:54] <lfaraone> maco: Of course. I've been a bit swamped recently, but I'll do some more this weekend.
[00:54] <MagicFab> lfaraone, bravo :)
[00:54] <maco> lfaraone: im joking, school's getting me too
[00:55] <maco> but we're only 500 bugs from jumping kubuntu-de ^_^
[00:55] <lfaraone> maco: Just wait until I add all the sync request bugs I've filed and poked people about :)
[00:55] <lfaraone> maco: (not to mention the 30 or so bug reports spawned from those syncs!)
[00:56] <darkhole> bye to all and thanks!!
[00:59] <hollman> bye all, thnaks!!!
[15:59] <pitti> hi
[15:59] <heno> hey
[15:59] <lool> hi there
[15:59] <slangasek> morning
[15:59] <Riddell> ho
[16:00] <dendrobates> o/
[16:02] <pgraner> Hey
[16:03] <lool> slangasek: Bumped bug #281610 to RC in the last hours
[16:04] <slangasek> ok
[16:04] <lool> Xorg unusable on plenty of ports and xvfb failing the builds
[16:05] <sbeattie> hey
[16:05] <slangasek> 'lo
[16:06] <slangasek> ok - ScottK says he's going to be about 20 minutes late; I've pung mdz and cjwatson, so hopefully they'll be along soon - let's get started
[16:06] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is slangasek.
[16:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:07] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
[16:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
[16:07] <cjwatson> here, sorry
[16:08] <slangasek> let's batch through these quickly; several of these were still outstanding as of a few hours ago, at least
[16:08] <slangasek> * follow-up discussion about bug 273833 on #ubuntu-devel
[16:09] <pgraner> slangasek: we reverted backto vesafb from uvesafb
[16:09] <slangasek> I see there was some further discussion in the bug log and it was marked as invalid, but I'm not sure whether it's actually been resolved to everyone's satisfaction?
[16:09] <cjwatson> the tail of the bug seems unsatisfactory :-/
[16:09] <mdz> slangasek: I'm here
[16:09] <slangasek> mdz: heya
[16:10] <pitti> usplash works fine again even with my external monitor now
[16:10] <slangasek> mdz's comment in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/v86d/+bug/273833/comments/14 in particular suggests that this isn't altogether solved
[16:11] <slangasek> do we need to reopen the bug for another look?
[16:11] <slangasek> pgraner: thoughts?
[16:11] <mdz> slangasek: I made a pass over all of the kernel bugs and summarized in email, I'm forwarding you the thread now
[16:12] <slangasek> mdz: great, thanks
[16:12] <pgraner> slangasek: its my understanding by reverting back to vesafb we are same as hardy again.
[16:12] <mdz> slangasek: I'm a little concerned that reverting may unmask regressions which weren't found earlier
[16:12] <mdz> but I don't know
[16:12] <BenC> mdz: reverting?
[16:12]  * BenC is jumping in the middle here
[16:12] <mdz> BenC: uvesafb->uvesafb
[16:12] <mdz> er
[16:12] <mdz> ->vesafb
[16:12] <BenC> ah
[16:13] <BenC> mdz: considering vesafb hasn't changed since pre-hardy, the possibility of regression is very low
[16:13] <cjwatson> I'm certainly *happier* with having vesafb than I am with uvesafb
[16:13]  * ScottK is here.  It turns out I didn't need the time I'd budgeted for "Wait for the teenager to be ready".
[16:13] <mdz> my understanding is that we've gone from vesafb (disabled by default, used by some people) to uvesafb (never worked unless manually fixed up, even for people who had enabled vesafb) to vesafb again (re-enabling it for people who had it turned on)
[16:13] <cjwatson> since we already knew intrepid was regressing for people
[16:13] <BenC> Yeah, uvesafb was actually causing boot hangs in some cases
[16:13] <mdz> as long as it doesn't get worse for people who were using vesafb, and not many people have it turned on, it should hopefully be OK
[16:14] <BenC> mdz: No, we had vesafb disabled completely
[16:14] <BenC> mdz: and even for people who didn't use uvesafb, it was still causing problems
[16:14] <mdz> BenC: if someone added vga= in hardy, and is now upgrading to intrepid, they'll continue to have it enabled
[16:14] <mdz> but will not have tested it since the switch to uvesafb
[16:14] <BenC> vga= != vesafb
[16:15] <mdz> for x in $(cat /proc/cmdline); do
[16:15] <mdz>         case ${x} in
[16:15] <mdz>         vga=*)
[16:15] <mdz>                 FB="vesafb";
[16:15] <mdz>                 OPTS="";
[16:15] <mdz>                 ;;
[16:15] <cjwatson>         case ${x} in
[16:15] <mdz> BenC: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/framebuffer
[16:15] <cjwatson>         vga=*)
[16:15] <cjwatson>                 FB="vesafb";
[16:15] <cjwatson> err, what he said :)
[16:15] <BenC> I understand, but if uvesafb was loaded, it handled vga=
[16:16] <BenC> maybe I misunderstand what you meant
[16:16] <BenC> yes, it will continue to work in intrepid now that vesafb is there
[16:16] <mdz> BenC: my point is that we essentially switched off vesafb for the whole cycle, and are now re-enabling it
[16:17] <mdz> we don't know if it has regressed during that time
[16:17] <BenC> mdz: true, but as noted, it hasn't changed code wise at all
[16:17] <mdz> my gut feeling is that few people use vga=
[16:17] <mdz> so I think this is probably an acceptable risk, but wanted to call it out for review
[16:17] <pgraner> BenC: other things around it have changed that might cause problems
[16:17] <cjwatson> my gut feeling is that this is the lesser of two evils
[16:17]  * BenC agrees
[16:17] <mdz> ok then
[16:18] <cjwatson> mdz: vga= use was increased because it used to be available in the gfxboot menu, BTW
[16:18] <slangasek> ok; moving on then
[16:18] <cjwatson> it no longer is, but it's still in some people's menu.lst as a result
[16:18] <pgraner> BenC: Need you to take point on any bugs that come in on this and jump on them right away
[16:18] <slangasek> * pitti to discuss a fresh langpack -base upload with Arne, related to bug #273489
[16:18] <BenC> pgraner: got it
[16:18] <slangasek> pitti: I think this part was done, right?
[16:18] <pitti> ROsetta is currently doing a full export
[16:18] <cjwatson> there's still a blockage on the KDE language packs being fixed
[16:18] <pitti> Arne will upload on his morning, I'll approve them from the queue on my morning, so they can build over the weekend.
[16:18] <cjwatson> I have a summary in my paste
[16:19] <pgraner> [ACTION] BenC  to take point on any bugs that come in on vesafb and jump on them right away
[16:19] <pitti> oh, they are still not approved? I thought that was done now
[16:19] <slangasek> [ACTION] BenC to take point on any bugs that come in on vesafb and jump on them right away
[16:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to take point on any bugs that come in on vesafb and jump on them right away
[16:19] <cjwatson> pitti: they are, but there's a bit of faff involving the language-pack flag that wasn't getting set
[16:20] <cjwatson> anyway, later
[16:20] <slangasek> ok, let's defer that part of the discussion down to the Foundations team slot
[16:20] <slangasek>  * desktop team to follow up on bug 145360
[16:20] <slangasek> I looked at the bug and saw lots and lots of follow-up from people /not/ on the desktop team... :)
[16:20] <pitti> Michael talked with upstream, and nobody has a true solution right now; however, the crash consistently happen
[16:20] <pitti> s on logout only, so once we disable apport, it won't actually be a pressing issue.
[16:21] <slangasek> ok
[16:21] <slangasek>  * pgraner to look into firmware in restricted vs. main (279669/269926)
[16:21] <pitti> other than that there wasn't much progress, I'm afraid :(
[16:21] <cjwatson> that should be sorted
[16:21] <slangasek> pgraner: I closed one of these bugs because I know it's fixed, I wasn't sure about the other
[16:21] <cjwatson> I've taught the installer to include the new package names
[16:21] <pgraner> slangasek: BenC was doing the work
[16:21] <pgraner> BenC: can you comment?
[16:21] <slangasek> i.e., bug #279669 is still open
[16:21] <cjwatson> I think 279669 is done ...
[16:22]  * BenC is reading
[16:22] <pgraner> cjwatson: ack
[16:22] <BenC> 279669 is done
[16:22] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to close out bug #279669
[16:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to close out bug #279669
[16:22] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[16:22] <slangasek>  * cjwatson to either pull his finger out with NM and X regression lists or send them to mdz
[16:23] <BenC> the only firmware bug right now is bug #284405
[16:23] <slangasek> BenC: right, that's on the list :)
[16:23] <mdz> slangasek: cjwatson passed these to me, but just a few hours ago and I've not had a chance to do anything yet
[16:23] <cjwatson> I did a bit of X (one of them turned out to be a regression in gtk, which I punted over there with a suggestion it be fixed post-release), but punted the rest to mdz recently
[16:24] <mdz> at this point I'd much rather give them away (have bryce and asac already reviewed them?)
[16:24] <cjwatson> I also asked asac to look through the NM list, since it turned out he hadn't seen it yet
[16:24] <slangasek> alrighty
[16:24] <mdz> but I will do it if no one els ecan
[16:24] <cjwatson> I'll make sure bryce reviews the list later today
[16:24] <cjwatson> sorry it was late
[16:24] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to have bryce review the NM regression list
[16:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to have bryce review the NM regression list
[16:24] <cjwatson> err. X.
[16:25] <lool> I hope asac likes Xorg stuff
[16:25] <slangasek> [ACTION] ^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W cjwatson to have bryce review the X regression list
[16:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W cjwatson to have bryce review the X regression list
[16:25] <slangasek> :P
[16:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: and you'll have asac review the NM ones?
[16:25] <cjwatson> yes, already did
[16:25] <slangasek> ok
[16:25] <asac> ack
[16:25] <cjwatson> that is I already asked him to do so and he said he would, haven't checked the output yet
[16:25] <slangasek> [ACTION] asac to review the NM regression list
[16:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to review the NM regression list
[16:25] <slangasek>  * kernel team to review and sponsor linux-rt (281276)
[16:26] <slangasek> bug #281276
[16:26] <slangasek> still open
[16:26] <mdz> if it's not already there, it seems clear that it hasn't made it
[16:26] <BenC> Didn't know they were waiting on sponsor
[16:26] <BenC> I'll review and upload if everything is ok
[16:26] <mdz> kernel freeze was yesterday
[16:27] <ScottK> persia mentioned to me that they were needing some more testing, I think.
[16:27] <BenC> mdz: this doesn't affect our kernel source
[16:27] <ScottK> Probably ready tomorrow
[16:27] <mdz> BenC: separate source package in universe?
[16:27] <persia> Rather, that I was likely to upload tomorrow with more testing if the action item wasn't done by the kernel team.
[16:27] <slangasek> mdz: yes
[16:27] <BenC> mdz: right, build-deps on the main source
[16:27] <cjwatson> the original purpose of kernel freeze was to let us build CDs, which isn't something linux-rt would break
[16:27] <cjwatson> and d-i
[16:28] <mdz> even so, we do have pressing work to do on the main kernel which should take priority
[16:28] <persia> Well, it would break the Ubuntu Studio DVD, but that has a workaround in place for now anyway.
[16:28] <cjwatson> persia doing it would avoid that problem, if the kernel team is happy with him doing that and if davidm can spare him
[16:29] <BenC> I'm happy trusting persia to to just upload
[16:29] <persia> OK.  I'll just confirm with the two members of MOTU Release who were testing, and push that.  Happy to take an action on it.
[16:29] <slangasek> [ACTION] persia to look at uploading linux-rt (281276)
[16:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to look at uploading linux-rt (281276)
[16:29] <slangasek> last outstanding item
[16:29] <slangasek>  * cjwatson/Keybuk to review last-good-boot data from BenC
[16:30] <BenC> That's rather moot now that it is disabled
[16:30] <pgraner> slangasek: that feature was pulled
[16:30] <cjwatson> indeed so
[16:30] <pgraner> slangasek: it will get a overhaul for jaunty at UDS
[16:30] <slangasek> I thought that was the case before this was actioned, so wasn't sure - ok, thanks for confirming
[16:30] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
[16:30] <slangasek> heno: hi
[16:31] <heno> hi
[16:31] <heno> * sbeattie, schwuk, ara and I have been running a series of upgrade tests in VMs with a good number of packages installed
[16:31] <heno> * sbeattie is running debcheck on the archive daily
[16:31] <heno> * schwuk has set up a backup mirror for ISO downloads. Please contact him for details if you should get blocked on cdimage. Note: it's just a fallback, not intended as a second cdimage
[16:31] <heno> * We are going through the RC bug list, trying to reproduce issues or verify fixes
[16:31] <heno> * Leann was in Montreal this week, where she did 8.10 manual testing and chased up open hwct bugs. She confirmed a fix for bug 271370 and got that in before the freeze.
[16:31] <heno> * Ara will be there next week. She will continue the regular manual testing, and follow up on RC bugs that need wider testing, including the iwl3945 bug. Please let us know about other specific issues that would benefit from wider testing.
[16:31] <slangasek> (looks like team reports are offset ~30min right now, for those keeping score)
[16:31] <heno> * Everyone: please refresh your ISO image collections to be ready for testing next week! See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Isoscript
[16:31] <dendrobates> ScottK would like to synk a bugfix 0.94 -> 0.94.1-
[16:31] <dendrobates> sorrk
[16:32] <cjwatson> heno: any progress on the grub UUID testing?
[16:33] <heno> cjwatson: no. did you put a testcase on the bug?
[16:33] <pgraner> cjwatson: I tested here with several methods, firewire, usb and it works
[16:33] <cjwatson> heno: no, I thought evand had already mailed you with detailed directions
[16:33] <pitti> dendrobates: practicing dvorak? :-)
[16:33] <cjwatson> "May I ask that your team affords some time in testing to cover testing
[16:33] <cjwatson> that installations on all our supported filesystems and installations
[16:33] <cjwatson> on systems with multiple disks still works with this change in place?
[16:33] <cjwatson> It's absolutely critical for USB-based installs and it entered the
[16:33] <cjwatson> release rather late.
[16:33] <cjwatson> "
[16:33] <cjwatson> pgraner: that's good
[16:34] <heno> cjwatson: got it. sbeattie can we look at this after the meeting?
[16:34] <pitti> my amd64 test box has two internal IDE hard disks, and a standard install uses both of them; is that good enough?
[16:34] <heno> I'll ask ara to look as well in Montreal
[16:34] <sbeattie> heno: yes definitely
[16:35] <cjwatson> pitti: yes
[16:35] <heno> I have a USB CD drive I can try with
[16:35] <slangasek> sounds good
[16:35] <pitti> me as well
[16:36] <maestrolinux> http://s2.ar.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=19732
[16:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://s2.ar.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=19732
[16:36] <ScottK> ^^^ is spam.
[16:36] <heno> sbeattie, bdmurray: any issues to add to the QA report?
[16:36] <lool> Someone please kick maestrolinux
[16:37] <sbeattie> not from me
[16:37] <slangasek> fwiw, I've distilled out the list of bugs that are both tagged regressions and have been nominated for release
[16:37] <bdmurray> me neither
[16:37] <slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations?field.tag=regression-potential
[16:37] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations?field.tag=regression-potential
[16:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations?field.tag=regression-potential
[16:37] <heno> ok, QA team done
[16:38] <slangasek> I'm giving high priority to getting these reviewed; bdmurray, if you have any time to help that'd be great too
[16:38] <bdmurray> slangasek: with the link you sent?
[16:38] <slangasek> bdmurray: the link above, yes
[16:39] <bdmurray> got it
[16:39] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
[16:39] <slangasek> pitti: let me paste in the list of milestoned bugs first?
[16:39] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/280997: bluez 4.x support for KDE
[16:39] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/274639: jockey crash
[16:39] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278112: screensaver doesn't start with compiz
[16:39] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/269904: nvidia/compiz problems
[16:39] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/212098: "easy" file sharing and logout/login
[16:40] <pitti> ok; in general, pieces are coming together, lots of bug fixing last week
[16:40] <pitti> Specs: all done, no further changes planned
[16:40] <pitti> RC Bugs:
[16:40] <pitti>  - #278112 (screensaver doesn't start with compiz): patch available and got positive testing; I built a package with the patch, works fine for me, too;  Michael has some other fixes, he'll talk to upstream about the patc
[16:40] <pitti> h and upload today
[16:40] <pitti>  - #269904 (nvidia/compiz problems): compiz workaround uploaded today, actual bug in nvidia driver remains, but is not RC any more
[16:40] <pitti>  - #274639 (jockey crash): I already believed this to be fixed until yesterday, when more reports came up; looks easy to fix, I'll just need to grab half an hour on it
[16:40] <pitti>  - #212098 (nautilus-share not notifying about required session restarting): We agreed on how a solution should look like and posted it to the bug report; a community member, Didier Roche (didrocks) said he'd work on this.
[16:40] <pitti>  - #280997 (KDE4 bluetooth breakage): upstream currently does not have time to do the porting; Mario is working on it, but his port might not arrive in time. Riddell currently plans to fix this in an SRU.
[16:40] <pitti> oops, 212908 is actually a bit stale
[16:41] <slangasek> yes, 212908 is hardy carry-over :/
[16:41] <pitti> he didn't manage to work on it, but it's not really an RC bug any more, I think
[16:41] <pitti> the workaround with the default "sambashare" group at least helps
[16:41] <pitti> Intrusive changes:
[16:41] <pitti>  - GNOME 2.24.1 is due on October 22, the Sebmaster and his little packaging army are standing by
[16:41] <pitti> On further notes, I worked on archive consistency today, particularly on component-mismatches. I roughly kille
[16:41] <pitti> d half of the "source/binary main promotions", but there is lots of more work to do. Assistance appreciated.
[16:41] <pitti> [end of report]
[16:41] <slangasek> however, the user still has to re-authenticate to PAM at least once in order for the shares to be usable
[16:41] <seb128> speaking about 2.24.1 is that ok if I approve my own uploads?
[16:42] <pitti> slangasek: really? even if he already was in sambashare?
[16:42] <seb128> they will likely package some tarballs rolled early during the weekend
[16:42] <slangasek> seb128: please have the release team review them so we know what's changing
[16:43] <slangasek> pitti: yes; until libpam-smbpass is installed, there's no SMB password hash for the user
[16:43] <slangasek> pitti: (otherwise I would've closed out the bug already)
[16:43] <pitti> ah, I see
[16:43] <seb128> slangasek: hum ok, so no point for me to work during the weekend to get early testing I guess
[16:43] <slangasek> seb128: I'll be around this weekend
[16:43] <pitti> slangasek: so why did we actually put in that "sambshare group by default" into the installer?
[16:43] <cjwatson> please also *don't* push GNOME 2.24.1 through on Oct 22
[16:43] <pitti> slangasek: I guess that dialog will add the user to sambashare anyway
[16:43] <slangasek> pitti: so that the user doesn't have to logout/login in order to *configure* the shares
[16:43] <pitti> slangasek: ah, ok
[16:44] <slangasek> initgroups(), etc
[16:44] <cjwatson> do what you can on Oct 20, or leave it in the queue until after the RC is out
[16:44] <pitti> slangasek: I'll talk to didrocks again, but at this point I don't think we'll squeeze in a patch by intrepid
[16:44] <slangasek> pitti: but let's take the rest to the bug then
[16:44] <slangasek> ok
[16:44] <cjwatson> I'll be out on Saturday but around some of Sunday
[16:44] <pitti> slangasek: agreed
[16:44] <slangasek> 280997 in SRU> unfortunate :/
[16:45] <pgraner> slangasek: need to add a Desktop one... I can't hold until the end
[16:45] <slangasek> but AIUI, unavoidable if we wanted bluetooth working for intrepid
[16:45] <slangasek> pgraner: go ahead
[16:46] <pgraner> slangasek: I keep seeing Consloe-kit-daemon crashes 2 to 3 times a day today 2 alone
[16:46] <slangasek> really?
[16:46] <pitti> pgraner: are they reported in LP?
[16:46] <slangasek> I haven't seen any ck crashes since my last patch to it
[16:46] <pitti> I fixed two recently, but it has never actually crashed for me so far
[16:46] <pgraner> slangasek: some of the older ones are I'll get the ones I had today in after the meeting
[16:46] <pgraner> pitti: seems to happen on login
[16:47] <slangasek> [ACTION] pgraner to file LP reports for console-kit-daemon crashes
[16:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to file LP reports for console-kit-daemon crashes
[16:47] <pitti> pgraner: ok, thanks; if they have an obvious stack trace, we can probably do something about them; I suspect they will already  be known, though, all of the 200ish crash reports were really just for four different stack traces
[16:47] <mdz> it was crashing for me earlier in the cycle, but has been OK for a while now
[16:47] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
[16:48] <lool> 284354 ignore ath5k on samsung Q1 - either we need a new wifi/ath5k backport (I think kernel team is preparing one) or we need to shuffle PCI ids in kernel to s
[16:48] <lool> elect madwifi instead of ath5k
[16:48] <lool> xxxxxx linux-headers-lpia not installable; pending along misc lpia kernel uploads; amitk working on them; we discussed actions during our call to fix this today or over the WE in the mobile team
[16:48] <lool> xxxxxx can't mount USB keys in xinit CK sessions (works from gdm sessions), session not active; needs filing, diagnosing, fixing
[16:48] <lool> xxxxxx totem doesn't work and crashes xorg in mid images; persia investigating and will file a bug soon
[16:48] <lool> pgraner: 284354> will you still push wifi updates before intrepid?
[16:48] <slangasek> so, ah, some bug numbers missing there?
[16:48] <mdz> ...
[16:48] <lool> Yeah; mentionned to me this morning and had only meetings since
[16:49] <pgraner> rtg: You plan here?
[16:49] <rtg> LBM is done, but it doesn't work with NM.
[16:49] <lool> Ah so it will be in the backports package
[16:49] <rtg> I think we should prefer madwifi over ath5k in the stock release
[16:49] <lool> That's not ok for lpia, where we don't have backports
[16:50] <rtg> ath5k has some real problems with noise.
[16:50] <lool> rtg: Can you take 284354?  amitk is really busy with lpia kernel uploads
[16:51] <rtg> so, I'm working with Dan Williams on the NM issues. Its also being driven by Atheros.
[16:51] <heno> http://usshop.ubuntu.com/category.php?catid=1
[16:51] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://usshop.ubuntu.com/category.php?catid=1
[16:51] <lool> apart of that, linux-headers-lpia was depping on linux-headers and so is blocking uploads of other lpia kernel sources
[16:52] <lool> That's being worked on by amitk and rest of team today and over WE
[16:52] <lool> The two other bugs are recent and need to be filed and diagnosed properly
[16:52] <lool> will take action to do so asap
[16:52] <rtg> lool: I don't think I've got time for that one.
[16:52] <slangasek> I'll be happy to see those land so we can zero out the out-of-date list :)
[16:53] <lool> That's all for mobile; generally in a good shape apart of kernel
[16:53] <slangasek> lool: when you've found those bugs, you'll target/milestone them?
[16:53] <lool> slangasek: Likely the USB one as we're using startx to login on mid, dunno about totem
[16:53] <lool> Might be vesa specific in which case perhaps not
[16:54] <slangasek> ok
[16:54] <lool> It might be "RC" but I didn't reproduce yet (not at home) and can't tell
[16:54] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
[16:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
[16:54] <slangasek> bug list:
[16:54] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/284405: incomplete copyright file for linux-firmware
[16:54] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/259157: atheros/madwifi, orinoco support
[16:54] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/263059: boot failures with iwl3945
[16:55] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/267295: hang on boot, GeForce4 Presario
[16:55] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/284354: ath5k PCI quirk for Q1
[16:55] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/182489: atheros on eeepc
[16:55] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/250139: iwl4965 panic
[16:55] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/265049: liveCD hang on Compaq Presario
[16:55] <slangasek> lots of wifi...
[16:55] <lool> 182489> relates to madwifi/ath5k on Q1U
[16:55] <pgraner> slangasek: be gentle
[16:55] <BenC> rtg can comment on most of the wife
[16:55] <BenC> err wifi
[16:55] <cjwatson> I don't quite know what to say to that one. :)
[16:56] <slangasek> rtg: you mentioned working with Dan Williams on this stuff, when do you expect fixes to land?
[16:56] <rtg> I think we're getting traction ion the i3945 issue.
[16:56] <rtg> slangasek: no idea.
[16:56] <rtg> I've not even been able to scratch it yet.
[16:56] <slangasek> ok
[16:56] <rtg> I chatted with Atheros yesterday, and they are also motivated to fix it.
[16:57] <pgraner> slangasek: 284405 is done
[16:57] <slangasek> pgraner: not according to LP? :)
[16:57] <lool> pitti: #285054 for the CK USB key in startx issue mentionned earlier
[16:57] <pgraner> slangasek: BenC????
[16:58] <BenC> slangasek: No, it isn't
[16:58] <BenC> slangasek: I split out firmware, and we have no complete copyright file for it
[16:59] <slangasek> sure, I'm aware of the bug :)
[16:59] <pgraner> slangasek: sorry my bad I thought that was Incorrect copyright file in a package
[16:59]  * pgraner needs to look at the bug before inserting foot in mouth
[16:59] <slangasek> so the ones that aren't wifi are #265049 and #267295; do we have anything to discuss there?
[16:59] <BenC> pgraner: lrm is fixed, that was the one you were thingking of
[17:00] <pitti> lool: answered; let's continue this in the bug, thanks for filing it
[17:00] <pgraner> BenC: yep
[17:00] <slangasek> bug #265049
[17:00] <slangasek> bug #267295
[17:01] <BenC> slangasek: we need to add bug #261318
[17:01]  * BenC is reading 267295
[17:01] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to review/milestone 261318
[17:01] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to review/milestone 261318
[17:02] <slangasek> ok, overall questions: are these targeted bugs an accurate representation of what the kernel team is working on right now, and are they a realistic workload for between now and release (considering we're past kernel freeze and have only very small windows for kernel uploads between now and final)?
[17:02] <pgraner> do we have any Preseario HW in house?
[17:03] <heno> pgraner: not in Montreal
[17:03] <BenC> hehe, 267295 has a scan of a hand written back trace
[17:03] <mdz> dedication
[17:03] <pgraner> slangasek: for the most part, we have not been looking at the Preseario ones at all other than asking to test on newer revs
[17:03] <BenC> first time for that
[17:04] <heno> and I don't turn up many with a general LP search either
[17:04]  * pgraner mutters this is where a hw db is invaluable
[17:05] <heno> none at all for S6010V (appart from the one mentioned on that bug)
[17:05] <heno> pgraner: agreed
[17:05] <BenC> After talking with rtg, I wonder how many of our mysterious crashes will go away once FTRACE is disabled
[17:05] <slangasek> ok, so the S6010V is definitely not milestoning material at least
[17:05] <rtg> BenC: those will be hard to pin on that root cause.
[17:06] <pgraner> BenC: good point, what does it buys us if we leave it enabled
[17:06] <mdz> rtg: Keybuk says he had some success debugging 263059
[17:06] <mdz> and has updated the bufg
[17:06] <slangasek> BenC, rtg: in that case, when can we get the ftrace change uploaded so we can have people re-test?
[17:06] <rtg> mdz: definitely.
[17:06] <slangasek> is disabling ftrace an ABI bump?
[17:06] <rtg> nope
[17:06] <heno> slangasek: agreed
[17:06] <Keybuk> rtg: it looks to me (reading the code) that the driver leaves the pci device disabled
[17:06] <Keybuk> and only enables it if the kill switch is off
[17:06] <rtg> Keybuk: correct
[17:06] <BenC> pgraner: It buys us nothing on usability
[17:07] <Keybuk> and that state really upsets the kernel if it's init'ing another pci driver at the same time
[17:07] <BenC> it's meant to help debug the kernel
[17:07] <pgraner> BenC: if there are no abi concerns lets up it disabled and uploaded.
[17:07] <BenC> Keybuk: kernel should be doing ref-counting on disable/enable though
[17:07] <mdz> BenC: from the documentation, it seems meant to help all sorts of debugging, not just the kernel itself
[17:07] <rtg> slangasek: its in 2.6.27.y stable tree as well.
[17:08] <mdz> but it is presumably a new feature in 2.6.27 so I'm not attached to it
[17:08] <pgraner> BenC: when doing new features we need to have a test plan and test coverage *early* to avoid this late cycle crap
[17:08] <rtg> pgraner: we get new features with every kernel.
[17:08] <BenC> pgraner: FTRACE has been enabled all cycle
[17:08] <cr3> pgraner: it would be nice if these tests could be automated in the form of command line scripts
[17:09] <BenC> pgraner: plus this sort of thing is hard to unit test
[17:09] <slangasek> AIUI ftrace is meant to be a replacement for ptrace, /eventually/; userspace isn't there in intrepid, so that really buys us nothing to have it enabled
[17:09] <cr3> pgraner: and I don't think autotest is sufficiently reliable to cover new features, I think it is more like a rite of passage
[17:09] <rtg> slangasek: we definitely need a kernel upload today.
[17:09] <pgraner> rtg: yep and we need evaluate to see if they give us anything, we are at the point that thking things in just cuz they are free seem to cause more issues more times than they are worth, unless we are committed to debug, test & patch
[17:09] <slangasek> rtg: ok
[17:10] <BenC> Ok, if we are doing a kernel upload today, then we need to conclude the fate of tlsup and toshiba_acpi
[17:10] <pgraner> BenC: status of each pls?
[17:10] <slangasek> pgraner: did you see the question earlier, about whether the targeted bug list accurately reflects what the team is working on, and if this workload is manageable?
[17:10] <Keybuk> BenC, rtg: what I find vaguely interesting is that the wireless card PCI device actually *goes away* when you toggle the kill switch
[17:10] <BenC> mdz: You mentioned that toshiba_acpi needed acpi-support changes, but I think you may have been confusing the bug about modprobe options that weren't compatible with the unpatched toshiba_acpi
[17:10] <pgraner> slangasek: I answered above
[17:11] <Keybuk> sufficiently that an ifconfig on it returns "No such device"
[17:11] <mdz> BenC: I remember it needed some userland fixing, which we opted not to do as we were switching to tlsup
[17:11] <slangasek> pgraner: sorry, I'm not sure what line was an answer to that then
[17:11] <mdz> BenC: did you look up the bug number(s)?
[17:11] <slangasek> pgraner: "for the most part", I guess?
[17:12] <BenC> mdz: No, I'm just going on recollection of when tlsup was switched to
[17:12] <pgraner> slangasek: We are working on all but the Preseario ones due to no hardware and lack of response from the testers, we have asked for output on command and nothing (in one of the bugs) didn't look that deep in the other
[17:12] <slangasek> ok
[17:12] <mdz> BenC: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/183883
[17:13] <mdz> is one I found with a quick search
[17:13] <mdz> I think there may have been others
[17:13] <BenC> mdz: that's the one I was referring to. Using the patched version of toshiba_acpi like we've had in hardy in prior, that problem goes away
[17:13] <mdz> BenC: so that problem was actually caused by dropping a toshiba_acpi patch, rather than the switch to tlsup?
[17:14] <mdz> that one was reported against  hardy btw
[17:14] <BenC> mdz: correct, the patch to toshiba_acpi had to be forward ported for some kthread changes, which I did before switching to tlsup
[17:14] <rtg> mdz: the orignal patch didn't compile, so we dropped it in the transition to Intrepid.
[17:14] <slangasek> let's move on, further toshiba discussion out-of-band please
[17:14] <BenC> So I have a compilable and working toshiba_acpi to drop in
[17:15] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/261977: nv driver selected on unsupported hardware
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/282037: wrong grub target with USB
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/150872: removable drives in fstab
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/273489, https://bugs.launchpad.net/259180: langpack template imports
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278963: fglrx crashes system on upgrade
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/274124: race condition with PA on GNOME startup
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/204272: totem-gstreamer PA crash
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/264462: blank display with radeon
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/277526: post-installation language support download doesn't work
[17:15] <slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/270002: multi-finger tapping broken
[17:15] <slangasek> cjwatson:
[17:15] <cjwatson> 261977: X server nv autodetection; summary in bug, bryce just offered to take over, waiting for him to get up
[17:15] <cjwatson> 282037: grub UUIDs for USB installs; fixed in ubiquity, needs to be fixed in d-i with similar logic
[17:15] <cjwatson> 150872: wrong /cdrom device in /etc/fstab for USB installs; fixed in ubiquity, needs to be fixed in d-i with similar logic
[17:15] <cjwatson> 273489: remaining template approvals; while there are still some left I don't think any are release-critical, so I downgraded the bug
[17:15] <cjwatson> 259180: broken KDE language packs; jtv tried an export this morning on staging but it's still missing some pieces due (conjecturally) to the language-pack flag not being set when staging was last synced; he's trying another export which should finish in ~5 hours
[17:15] <cjwatson> 278963: fglrx crash on upgrade; latest reports are that this is fixed, although Brian Watson reported a slightly different but related problem which has yet to be diagnosed
[17:15] <cjwatson> 274124: pulseaudio race condition; we have a horrible, horrible workaround and crimsun suggests that the real fix is unacceptably invasive, so will probably go with the workaround
[17:16] <cjwatson> 204272: totem crash with pulseaudio; may be similar to 275233 which is (a) inconsistently reproducible to start with (b) believed not reproducible following the fix for 274124
[17:16] <cjwatson> 264462: ATI driver failure on certain models; patches near end of report, need to get something uploaded so we can test it
[17:16] <cjwatson> 277526: language support failure after installation; this is my personal top priority right now
[17:16] <cjwatson> 270002: synaptics multi-finger tapping broken; fix in wgrant's PPA
[17:16] <cjwatson> other issues:
[17:16] <cjwatson>   grub UUID support enabled across the board, asked for testing; have asked evand to prepare a patch to back that out except for USB installs in the event of problems
[17:16] <cjwatson>   may need to do a few more manual translation uploads given the late translation imports
[17:16] <cjwatson> I've asked bryce to step in here in case there are any X queries, but he isn't usually an early bird
[17:16] <mdz> wasn't 282037 meant to be addressed by the grub UUID change?
[17:16] <mdz> oh, it's still open for d-i
[17:17] <slangasek> hrm, what I read of 204272 didn't leave me thinking it was related to 274124
[17:17] <cjwatson> I would be willing to be wrong about that
[17:18] <cjwatson> there were such comments about 275233 which seemed applicable ...
[17:18] <bryce> heya
[17:18] <slangasek> moin
[17:19] <cjwatson> Luke has been unable to reproduce 204272 though
[17:19] <slangasek> yeah
[17:19] <cjwatson> which leads me to believe it may be racy
[17:19] <slangasek> I think I accidentally reproduced it yesterday /after/ asking for a test case
[17:19] <slangasek> but not under a debugger yet
[17:20] <slangasek> so I'll be poking at that today
[17:20] <cjwatson> thanks
[17:20] <slangasek> any other critical issues that are hiding from me?
[17:21] <pitti> how's CD size these days?
[17:21] <slangasek> separate topic :)
[17:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
[17:21] <dendrobates> ScottK would like to sync the release canadate of clamav and then do an update after release.  it is a bug fix release that comes out on 3 Nov.  it is 0.94 -> 0.94.1.  He believes it's low risk.
[17:22] <dendrobates> bug 283368
[17:22] <cjwatson> meh, I wasn't aware of 283368
[17:22] <slangasek> * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272232: passwd change returns success with pam_ecryptfs
[17:22] <dendrobates> cjwatson: brand new.
[17:22] <slangasek> ^^ that's the only bug I'm aware of, kirkland and I are working on it
[17:22] <cjwatson> dendrobates: fairly easy though
[17:22] <dendrobates> also bug 227848 and bug 284107
[17:23] <ScottK> When it comes to clamav, we are kind of screwed.  They just released 0.94.1 RC with final planned for 03 Nov.
[17:23] <kirkland> slangasek: also the ecryptfs mount counter
[17:23] <cjwatson> seems a bit late for 284107 though
[17:23] <ScottK> Generally they're pretty good about not having regressions/breakage on their .x releases.
[17:24] <dendrobates> cjwatson: I agree, probably won't get to it, but kirkland is trying to get 227848
[17:24] <ScottK> I'd like to upload the RC this weekend with the intent of getting 0.94.1 final into -updates (assuming testing goes well).
[17:24] <slangasek> ScottK: is there a FFe request for the RC?
[17:24] <ScottK> slangasek: I haven't filed it yet.
[17:24] <slangasek> ok
[17:24] <slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to file a FFe request for clamav RC
[17:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to file a FFe request for clamav RC
[17:25] <kirkland> cjwatson: fwiw, the fix that I'm looking at for 227848 would actually use the _netdev bits in /etc/fstab
[17:25] <cjwatson> ah
[17:25] <kirkland> cjwatson: s/use/need/
[17:25] <ScottK> The Debian git repo for clamav got a bit broken and I'm waiting on it getting fixed tonight or tomorrow to have a package.
[17:25] <kirkland> cjwatson: from Debian, something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/58885/ in the iscsi init script
[17:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: should I assign 283368 to you?
[17:26] <cjwatson> slangasek: I already did, and have committed a fix
[17:26] <slangasek> heh :-)
[17:26] <dendrobates> cjwatson: in 20 seconds!
[17:27] <dendrobates> FWIW, +1 on the clamav sync.
[17:27] <slangasek> cjwatson: is it your thought that 284107 is too intrusive/risky?
[17:27] <dendrobates> and that is all fo rme.
[17:27] <slangasek> or "doesn't fit in the installer schedule"?
[17:28] <cjwatson> slangasek: I didn't realise it was needed for something else
[17:28] <slangasek> ok
[17:28] <cjwatson> and it seemed a bit late to be fiddling with mount scripts
[17:28] <slangasek> ok then, I think we've covered everything there
[17:29] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:29] <ScottK> No great excitement.
[17:29] <ScottK> We already covered the -rt kernel.
[17:30] <ScottK> I have one late library transition I'm working on.  libspf2 got a major facelift after Dan Kaminsky found a DNS related buffer overflow.
[17:30] <ScottK> It looks safe and only one rdepend in the archive.
[17:30] <slangasek> ScottK: bug #250425 is milestoned and targeted, but I don't think that this is actually happening for 8.10 :)
[17:30] <slangasek> libspf2> ack
[17:30] <ScottK> We've patched the buffer overflow, but it fixes a lot of other unfortunate stuff.
[17:30]  * ScottK looks
[17:31] <ScottK> I'll check with wgrant and see if he's doing anything on it.
[17:32] <slangasek> ok
[17:32] <ScottK> Is someone going to process sync's again before release?
[17:32] <ScottK> I know of at least one pending with security implications (because I filed it)
[17:32] <cjwatson> is somebody working on the remaining libv4l stuff?
[17:32] <slangasek> I believe I have time Monday to do some syncs
[17:32] <ScottK> OK
[17:32] <cjwatson> and there are several open security bugs
[17:32] <ScottK> cjwatson: I'll check.
[17:33] <slangasek> I pung kees last night about the v4l stuff, sounds like no one is working on them yet
[17:33] <ScottK> I'll look into that too.
[17:33] <cjwatson> bug 260918, it has five tasks on /ubuntu/intrepid so is quite noticeable
[17:33] <nijaba> mathiaz: pvb bugs triagged, couple of incompletes for you
[17:34] <slangasek> those packages don't seem to be holding up any NBS removals, so I guess it's just a question of them not being usable in intrepid if no one gets to them...
[17:34] <ScottK> I'll see if I can give v4I a push.
[17:34] <slangasek> usable for video, that is
[17:34] <slangasek> ScottK: thanks
[17:34] <slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to give v4l transition a push
[17:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to give v4l transition a push
[17:35] <slangasek> [TOPIC] General feature update
[17:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  General feature update
[17:35] <slangasek> this should be a no-op, but here's your opportunity to speak if not
[17:35] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
[17:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
[17:35] <slangasek> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta#Known%20Issues
[17:35] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta#Known%20Issues
[17:35] <slangasek> all but one of the bugs we highlighted as a caveat for beta have been fixed, and the last bug is already covered above; good job, folks
[17:36] <ScottK> I suppose there's no need to revist Kubuntu and Bluetooth here.
[17:36] <slangasek> beyond that, we've already covered regressions in-line above
[17:36] <mdz> slangasek: great news, agreed
[17:37] <cjwatson> wish I knew how bug 270423 got fixed, but I'm not going to complain
[17:37] <slangasek> ScottK: the bug for that is milestoned and was discussed above; regrettable circumstances :/
[17:37] <heno> cjwatson: I've tried hard to reproduce it again but failed :)
[17:38] <slangasek> er, s/milestoned/targetde/
[17:38] <slangasek> er, both
[17:38] <slangasek> anyway
[17:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Hardware testing
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware testing
[17:38] <heno> * I've prepared reports for vendors. I was on a conf call with one major vendor yesterday who seemed happy with the reporting and the testing website at this point.
[17:38] <heno> * There is still room for improvement on reporting though - schwuk is preparing a list of hardware we have in the labs with detailed hw specs
[17:39] <heno> cr3: can you report in more detail on testing progress?
[17:39] <slangasek> cross-hardware summary report?  please? :-)
[17:40] <heno> slangasek: still WIP I'm afraid :(
[17:40] <cr3> Most laptops and desktops have been tested with automatic tests as of 20081017, servers are still pending.
[17:41] <slangasek> cr3: how long until the servers are also tested?
[17:42] <cr3> The two most significant bugs encountered are the NO_REBOOT flag when booting which ogasawara knows about and another I reported about usplash... checking bug #
[17:42] <cr3> slangasek: before Monday for sure
[17:42] <slangasek> ok
[17:42] <heno> cr3: on how many machines has manual testing been done and how many are outstanding?
[17:42] <heno> (Ara will be in the lab next week to help with that)
[17:43] <cr3> heno: manual testing has been done on all Dell laptops and desktops which accounts for 12 machines. all the rest still need to be done
[17:44] <heno> ok, thanks
[17:44] <cr3> heno: I need to become a hardware vendor and request those reports too :)
[17:44] <heno> cr3: indeed - they are carefully hand-crafted ;)
[17:45] <slangasek> heh :)
[17:45] <slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
[17:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
[17:45] <slangasek> pitti: now we can talk about ISOs :)
[17:45] <slangasek> CD size is stable at the moment
[17:45] <pitti> slangasek: size-wise they actually seem ok
[17:45] <pitti> although they don't have much room for langpacks any more
[17:46] <slangasek> I do think we need to shove some more langpacks on there, before the desktop team beats us to eating up the space <cough> :)
[17:46] <slangasek> but getting rid of webkit definitely helped
[17:46] <seb128> pitti: should we split the evolution documentation?
[17:46] <Riddell> slangasek: langpacks may grow in size when complete ones appear
[17:46] <pitti> if we can still achieve that, it woudl certainly be good
[17:46] <Riddell> KDE ones certainly, gnome ones probably less so
[17:47] <pitti> the GNOME langpacks shouldn't grow a lot any more, though
[17:47] <slangasek> Riddell: yeah :/
[17:47] <slangasek> it's been the Ubuntu disks that we've been fighting size on this cycle, though, Kubuntu has been doing ok AFAIK
[17:47] <slangasek> or you've been fixing the problems before I notice them :)
[17:48] <slangasek> anyway, you guys have 30-40MB more to play with for langpacks
[17:48] <slangasek> so hopefully that turns out ok
[17:48] <slangasek> anyway, I'll do the langpack shuffle today or over the weekend on the Ubuntu disks
[17:48] <Riddell> yes, Kubuntu has lots of space, I havn't added many langpacks yet (doesn't seem like much point until they contain something)
[17:48] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to shove langpacks onto the Ubuntu CDs to fill them up
[17:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to shove langpacks onto the Ubuntu CDs to fill them up
[17:49] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:49] <slangasek> anything else?
[17:49] <lool> #285058 for the linux-lpia installabilityu
[17:49] <lool> fixed targets for #284368 which is also linux-lpia-meta issue
[17:49] <lool> there, just wanted to get the missing mobile bugs on the record
[17:49] <slangasek> lool: thanks :)
[17:49] <lool> (Nothing new to discuss)
[17:50] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:50] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:50.
[17:50] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[17:50] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:51] <mdz> cr3: bug numbers for the two issues you mentioned?
[18:53] <cr3> mdz: sorry, I've been looking for them and I even used ubuntu-bug to report the usplash one but I can't find them anymore. I know ogasawara has got the two bugs readily available somewhere, I'll have to ping her
[18:55] <cr3> mdz: aha! the usplash one is: #263059:
[19:00] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in a minutes in #kubuntu-devel incase anyone came to the wrong channel
[19:04] <Nightrose> helo :)
[19:04] <Nightrose> *hello even
[19:04] <Nightrose> sorry for being a little late
[19:05] <james_w> hi Nightrose, the meeting is in #kubuntu-devel apparently
[19:05] <nixternal> yo yo
[19:06] <nixternal> good timing
[19:06] <persia> except it's in #kubuntu-devel