[22:55] <muchdoge1> no options for it.
[22:55] <ikonia> muchdoge1: seems unlikley
[22:55] <muchdoge1> ikonia: I know, but I ran around the bios for 4 hours last night, checking every option
[22:56] <ikonia> muchdoge1: check the manual
[22:56] <muchdoge1> rgr
[22:56] <lickalott> lar4 what are we talking about?
[22:56] <lickalott> just a straight rsync?
[22:57] <ikonia> lar4: man rsync - LEARN how to use it
[22:57] <lar4> lickalott, it's an rsync command, it's supposed to copy a folder excluding a subfolder
[22:57] <ikonia> lar4: instead of guessing
[22:59] <jhutchins> muchmoist: No option to turn off the graphics in the BIOS?
[22:59] <jhutchins> muchmoist: Sorry, I guess he gave up.
[23:03] <aca20031> really, I have to do a dist-upgrade to get aptitude to install samba4? lol well thanks.
[23:03] <aca20031> seemed to work
[23:03] <ch1pasa> asdasjkda
[23:03] <ch1pasa> dasda
[23:04] <lar4> OK now I did  rsync /dirA  /dirB  and I get "skiping directory dirA". I don't get it
[23:04] <ikonia> lar4: READ the man page
[23:05] <ch1pasa> hey all
[23:05] <ch1pasa> anyone familiar with vnc
[23:05] <lickalott> !ask ch1pasa
[23:05] <ch1pasa> anyone familiar with vnc
[23:05] <ch1pasa> okay
[23:05] <ch1pasa> i activated vnc with ubuntu
[23:05] <ch1pasa> how do i find out the ip that i need to connect with it
[23:06] <lickalott> huh?
[23:06] <ch1pasa> um
[23:06] <ch1pasa> when you activate a vnc server
[23:06] <ch1pasa> you connect to an ip correct?
[23:06] <lickalott> you have vnc running on your ubuntu rig, and you want to know which IP to connect to from another system?  (non ubuntu)
[23:06] <ch1pasa> yes
[23:06] <ikonia> ch1pasa: you can connect to an IP or FQDN - it's up to you
[23:07] <lickalott> whats does ifconfig give you
[23:07] <lickalott> you should have another interface name now.  or...just try the ip of the system + port# that you are using
[23:07] <ch1pasa> it gives me a lot
[23:07] <lickalott> OR.... use openvpn <--- much better imo
[23:07] <ch1pasa> ifconfig doesnt give me a port nor does the remote viewer
[23:08] <lickalott> lar4 are you just trying to back stuff up?
[23:08] <lar4> lickalott, yeah
[23:08] <ch1pasa> why does it not give me the option?
[23:09] <lickalott> ifconfig won't give you a port.  the port, unless you changed it, stays standard with vnc.  so if you don't see a specific interface in ifconfig for your vnc then try the main IP (prob eth0) + the default vnc port (i.e. <IP_ADDRESS>:943)
[23:09] <ch1pasa> <IP_ADDRESS>:943 doesnt work
[23:10] <lickalott> lar4 - two options: Rsnapshot (https://www.digitalocean.com/community/articles/how-to-install-rsnapshot-on-ubuntu-12-04) or a script (https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/serverguide.pdf  Pg 294)
[23:10] <lickalott> pastebin your ifconfig ch1pasa
[23:11] <ch1pasa> it worked
[23:11] <ch1pasa> now how do i find out my external ip?
[23:11] <lickalott> my stuff always works sometimes
[23:11] <ch1pasa> for remote desktop viewer
[23:11] <lickalott> is it windows or *nix?
[23:11] <ch1pasa> ubuntu
[23:11] <lickalott> open a terminal and do ifconfig
[23:12] <lickalott> am I missing something there?
[23:12] <ch1pasa> http://pastebin.com/T0KKQ5vs
[23:13] <lickalott> are you good now ch1pasa?
[23:13] <ch1pasa> no
 it worked <------??
[23:13] <ch1pasa> i pasted my pastebin
[23:14] <ch1pasa> no external ip?
[23:14] <DLC> ch1pasa: are you connecting through a wireless router?
[23:14] <ch1pasa> yeah and i selected forward ports automatically
[23:14] <lickalott> yeah, but you pasted that after you said it worked.
[23:15] <lickalott> is this all on an internal network?
[23:15] <ch1pasa> oh oops
[23:15] <ch1pasa> yes
[23:15] <ch1pasa> the desktop is not on a wifi router
[23:15] <lickalott> shouldn't matter
[23:15] <ch1pasa> its direct connection
[23:15] <lickalott> network is network
[23:15] <ch1pasa> okay
[23:15] <lickalott> so desktop is vnc server and <?> is the client
[23:16] <lickalott> just so I can paint the picture in my head
[23:16] <ch1pasa> i want to use my iphone to see my ubuntu desktop computer
[23:16] <jhutchins> lickalott: Whatever vnc client your phone supports.
[23:17] <lickalott> I meant which machine jhutchins
[23:17] <ch1pasa> iphone wont connect
[23:17] <lickalott> ch1pasa, your phone has the vnc client software on it.
[23:17] <ch1pasa> yes
[23:17] <ch1pasa> mocha vnc lite
[23:18] <ch1pasa> i entered my external ip and i dont know what the port to remote desktop viewew is
[23:18] <lickalott> are you using wifi vs CDMA?
[23:18] <chris125> #kaas
[23:18] <ch1pasa> gsm
[23:18] <DLC> ch1pasa: try pointing your browser to <IP_ADDRESS> to find out the external ip
[23:18] <lickalott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Network_Computing
[23:19] <ch1pasa> browser keeps loading with that ip
[23:19] <lickalott> okay, so its NOT internal network.  Then you will need to forward the ports on your router to allow outside connections
[23:20] <Ice_Strike> I am getting error when I do: sudo apt-get install avahi-daemon
[23:20] <Ice_Strike> see http://pastebin.com/PN79Crjc
[23:20] <lickalott> connect to your wireless network and try your internal IP to see if it works.  If that is successful, you need to forward the ports in your router and you'll be putting the ISP given IP address not the internal IP
[23:21] <ch1pasa> okay
[23:21] <ch1pasa> now i am forwarding the port
[23:21] <ch1pasa> what port should i forward
[23:21] <lickalott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Network_Computing
[23:22] <ch1pasa> okay so its 5900
[23:22] <lickalott> just an opinion....teamviewer is a pretty stout program for what you're doing
[23:22] <lickalott> but...handle yo bidness
[23:22] <ch1pasa> yeah but everytime i install something through terminal it doesnt work
[23:23] <ch1pasa> like for example i cant even install tor
[23:23] <lickalott> ssh enabled on the ubuntu machine and connectbot on your phone
[23:23] <lickalott> anyway...sidetrack
[23:23] <lickalott> do you man....do you
[23:26] <WikiWill> Hello
[23:27] <WikiWill> Anyone here not too tired to help me with installation issues?
[23:27] <lickalott> !ask
[23:30] <DLC> Ice_Strike: it seems there is a problem with your sources. You can try setting a different server through synaptic
[23:30] <WikiWill> My mistake. I installed Ubuntu "alongside windows", and it seems to have written ubuntu over it , improperly installed grub, and while i did fix grub, I cannot access my windows files from ubuntu, nor can I detect my windows partition with anything, and the windows recovery CD says "wrong version of windows", and reboots.
[23:31] <hitsujiTMO> WikiWill: can you pastebin the output of: sudo fdisk -l
[23:32] <WikiWill> hitsujiTMO: here you go: http://pastebin.com/fHXdumbQ
[23:32] <ch1pasa> i forwarded 5900 and it says timed out
[23:33] <resc_user_3019> hi
[23:33] <ch1pasa> any ideas?
[23:33] <resc_user_3019> is ther anybody to help me ?
[23:33] <lickalott> WikiWill looks like sdb isn't formatted.
[23:33] <lickalott> no parition table
[23:34] <somsip> !anyone | resc_user_3019
[23:34] <lickalott> sda = your stroage drive?
[23:34] <WikiWill> I believe it is a storage drive
[23:34] <lickalott> resc_user_3019 ask your question!
[23:34] <WikiWill> I'll remove and re-paste
[23:34] <resc_user_3019> i have ubuntu dual boot installation problems with my new laptop
[23:34] <lickalott> that's fine WikiWill.  you can leave it.
[23:35] <WikiWill> yes it is a storage drive. weird, because I'm booting on sda and it says only one partition
[23:35] <lickalott> my opinion - launch the live cd and once you're in open a terminal and run gparted.  Format /dev/sdb and try the install again
[23:35] <lickalott> need to be more specific resc_user_3019
[23:36] <lickalott> ch1pasa are you sure it should be 5900?
[23:36] <lickalott> i didn't read up on it
[23:36] <resc_user_3019> while installing ubuntu it my acer e1 530 laptop, it can not recognise my windows 7 and partitions
[23:37] <lickalott> ch1pasa looks like you need 5500 forwarded from 1.130 and 5900 as well
[23:37] <WikiWill> lickalott, I'm actually running ubuntu right now off of my hard drive.  there are multiple partitions as there is another copy of ubuntu installed that i can boot into as well. But, my problem is that ubuntu seems to have over-written my windows partition.
[23:37] <lickalott> well....that stinks
[23:37] <resc_user_3019> if i try to install it will earase all the hdd and there will be anly linux after that
[23:37] <WikiWill> And i clicked "install alongside windows", is there any chance it is still there?
[23:38] <Bray90820> what is the owner where no one is the owner
[23:38] <resc_user_3019> i have searched the net and was not able to find a suitable solution and still in truuble
[23:38] <Bray90820> if that makes any sense
[23:39] <lickalott> prob not.  (based on that fdisk output)  You can try a program called photorec to retrieve your stuff
[23:39] <lickalott> WikiWill ^^
[23:39] <lickalott> Bray90820 nobody
[23:40] <Bray90820> Thank you
[23:40] <resc_user_3019> i think it might be caused by uefi bios
[23:40] <lickalott> could be resc_user_3019
[23:40] <WikiWill> Alright, I left a post on the ubuntu forums to see if anyone could help, but in the meantime i will try photorec. thanks for your time
[23:40] <lickalott> WikiWill photorec will run on ubuntu
[23:40] <kandinski> I want to sync dropbox-like betwen a local directory and a smb share
[23:40] <kandinski> it's so I can work from home, then sync to the work directory automagically when I come in to work
[23:41] <salo> trying to install 13.10 on a i7-4700MG, nvidia gtx 650m. Have set legacy mode (to bypass the win 8.1 demo UEFI crap), and got to the purple screen with orange dots going on. After a while screen flicks to black (pc doesn't go off). Any help?
[23:41] <kandinski> which is the recommended option these days?
[23:41] <somsip> kandinski: what sort of work are you doing?
[23:41] <kandinski> all and any
[23:41] <kandinski> from programming to writing openoffice documents
[23:41] <somsip> kandinski: then I'd suggest git
[23:41] <lickalott> salo - dual boot or single install?
[23:42] <kandinski> I just want it to be automated, not have to think about it
[23:42] <lickalott> I think you can choose your destination for the dropbox folder locally kandinski
[23:42] <somsip> kandinski: then you are walking a line of balance between control and functionality. Dropbox is simpler. Git offers more
[23:42] <lickalott> you can with winblows installs
[23:43] <kandinski> yep, but $company, while happy for me to take work home in a laptop, absolutely forbids using dropbox
[23:43] <lickalott> ch1pasa where you at homey?
[23:43] <DLC> kandinski: git / svn is pretty neat
[23:43] <kandinski> hence the "dropbox clone"
[23:43] <somsip> kandinski: IIRC dropbox is built on something git-like
[23:43] <DLC> kandinski: there is also google drive and ubuntu one
[23:43] <kandinski> yeah, I use git all the time
[23:43] <salo> lickalott - My goal is to end with a 13.10 / Win7 dual boot.  Current status is a newly bought pc with some sort of DEMO of Win 8.1, which i want to erradicate and replace with ubuntu. 2nd phase would be to add win7 as dual boot
[23:43] <lickalott> kandinski can you run openvpn from work so you can have direct access to the files from home?
[23:43] <kandinski> DLC, and by extension, any storage of data outside company property
[23:44] <somsip> kandinski: so you sell the benefits of version control to your company
[23:44] <resc_user_3019> hope you got it.
[23:44] <kandinski> somsip: yeah, we have git repos too, what are we, peasants?
[23:44] <lickalott> I would add win7 first salo, then install easyBCD, then install ubuntu
[23:44] <Fou> hello ... i have a question about permission when using fstab mounting or mapping a drive. I have the .cred file but its still giving me issues with permissions. What I am trying to do is mad a drive on another computer and have my downloads go there. It works and sometimes does not work
[23:44] <DLC> kandinski: even encrypted?
[23:44] <resc_user_3019> do you need anyhthing more regarding my issue
[23:44] <lickalott> resc_user_3019?
[23:44] <Fou> do i have th chmod the cred file ?
[23:44] <somsip> kandinski: nah, just sarcastic to the point of rudeness. EOT for me
[23:44] <resc_user_3019> yes
[23:45] <lickalott> who was that for?  <resc_user_3019> hope you got it.
[23:45] <kandinski> DLC: regulatory constraints affect us. Anyway, sparkleshare is hmm
[23:46] <resc_user_3019> somebody ask to post my problem. i have typed it and waiting for a solution
[23:46] <salo> lickalott - Made a USB with win7 but can't get it to boot... (i'm kinda of inexperienced with this EFI, UEFI, BIOS, bootable stuff, etc.)
[23:46] <salo> only the Ubuntu usb boots
[23:46] <ch1pasa> okay
[23:46] <glitsj16> kandinski: what about btsync? nothing gets stored, machine to machine
[23:46] <ch1pasa> lickalott
[23:46] <ch1pasa> i installed teamviewer
[23:46] <lickalott> its a bear salo.  iirc ubuntu then windows is a lot harder than windows then ubuntu
[23:46] <kandinski> glitsj16: in this case, it would even be in-machine (as far as the smb share is mounted locally)
[23:47] <lickalott> you want me to look at it ch1pasa? or are you just gonna go with TV?
[23:47] <lickalott> resc_user_3019 - repost your issue pls
[23:47] <ch1pasa> try and connect to me it doesnt work
[23:47] <lickalott> on tv?
[23:47] <ch1pasa> 641-112-198
[23:47] <ch1pasa> it says unable to cionnect could not be established
[23:48] <lickalott> wait 1.  need to update
[23:48] <salo> lickalott - what do you mean a "bear"? I trust you being easier with the first install of win 7, but i can't get to boot it...
[23:48] <lickalott> do you have ssh enabled on your ubuntu rig?
[23:48] <resc_user_3019> while i am trying to install ubuntu on my new acer laptop having windows 7, ubuntu cant recognise win7 and other partitions
[23:48] <lickalott> bear - getting win7 to boot with a win8 designed laptop
[23:48] <Bray90820> How would i find the current owner of a directory
[23:48] <lickalott> ls -lrt
[23:49] <lickalott> Bray90820 ^^
[23:49] <Bray90820> Thank you
[23:49] <lickalott> Bray90820 are you on EFnet?
[23:49] <ch1pasa> lickalot did it work?
[23:49] <resc_user_3019> am newby to this chat.and dont know your rules and regulations. sorry
[23:50] <Fou> am i doing something wrong with fstab
[23:50] <lickalott> ch1pasa pm me the pass
[23:50] <salo> lickalott - so bear is good thing or a bad one? i mean, isn't it as easy as building the usb from iso from within windows (with one of those googled apps) and boot with it? Am I missing something?
[23:50] <lickalott> bad salo
[23:51] <lickalott> no....there is much more to it.  You're dealing with effed up bios issues going from 8 - 7
[23:51] <lickalott> ch1pasa
[23:52] <lickalott> resc_user_3019 how far do you get into the install process?
[23:53] <salo> jesus lickalott. you got me scared with the 8 - 7 .... =)  so what are my options? Can I get a win 8.1 FULL version on top of the current DEMO one, and add Ubuntu on dual boot with this UEFI thing?
[23:54] <Ice_Strike> I am trying to install avahi-utils and it keep failing
[23:54] <lickalott> it's not impossible salo, just not easy.  windows 8 is a big fail imho.  So i think it's worth the research.
[23:54] <Ice_Strike> see http://pastebin.com/wXMTrs9m
[23:54] <resc_user_3019> i can install linux completely. but it will erase the entire hdd.
[23:55] <lickalott> but yes, to your question.  You can install ubunut side by side with winblows
[23:55] <Fou> hahaha winblows
[23:55] <lickalott> your drive it partitioned resc_user_3019?
[23:55] <resc_user_3019> it will give a messgae. no operating systems is found in your comp
[23:55] <Fou> does any one know if i can install quickbooks on ubuntu and do they have drivers for some of the devices that i have ?
[23:55] <lickalott> what ver of ubuntu Ice_Strike?
[23:56] <lickalott> after bios post resc_user_3019?
[23:56] <lickalott> no clue here Fou
[23:56] <lickalott> here meaning me
[23:56] <resc_user_3019> linux installation starts
[23:56] <lickalott> did you already install resc_user_3019
[23:58] <resc_user_3019> i have installed win7 and softwares to c drive and there i kept free space for ubuntu
[23:58] <resc_user_3019>  but when ubuntu installs it is showing that no operating system or partions
[23:59] <lickalott> did you partition the drive?


[00:20] <poolie> hi all
[00:20] <spiv> Hi poolie
[00:20] <spiv> You have some approved branches to land :)
[00:21] <jelmer> moinmoin :)
[00:21] <poolie> hey, thanks
[00:21] <poolie> that's not very dutch :)
[00:22] <jelmer> apparently it is, though not the area of the Netherlands I'm from
[00:22] <jelmer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin
[00:33] <poolie> oh, cool, i was just wondering after i asked
[00:33] <poolie> spiv there was one patch i think about adding options to diff that was a bit old and that needed tests
[00:33] <poolie> maybe you/we should finish it
[00:35] <poolie> jelmer, i liked your mail about lazy imports
[00:35] <poolie> great title too
[00:36] <dash> ahoyhoy. if i have a lightweight checkout whose branch has moved, can i point it at the branch's new location or do I have to blow it away?
[00:38] <jelmer> poolie: thanks :)
[00:39] <poolie> dash, you should be able to redirect it with 'bzr switch'
[00:39] <dash> oh, hup. switch works if I remove the loom plugin.
[00:39] <poolie> maybe 'switch --force'?
[00:39] <dash> yeah.
[00:40] <dash> should've immediately gotten suspicious when that error message said 'thread' in it.
[00:40] <jelmer> that sounds like a bug in the loom plugin?
[00:41] <dash> quite likely
[00:41] <jelmer> it wraps the switch command to add some extra functionality
[00:41] <dash> I also had a terribly old version of it hanging around
[00:41] <dash> (just upgraded this box from karmic to natty)
[00:48] <poolie> that would be such a good case for refactoring commands to allow cleaner extension
[00:48] <poolie> in fact, that refactoring may already exist in cmd_status and just need to be used
[05:22] <mwhudson> btw
[05:22] <mwhudson> some kind of anonymous smart server access to lp would be nice!
[05:22] <mwhudson> i guess this is still lurking at the "not important enough" level
[05:25] <lifeless> well
[05:25] <lifeless> loggerhead does it
[05:25] <lifeless> probably just need:
[05:25] <lifeless>  - permit the url through
[05:25] <lifeless>  - resource it
[05:39] <poolie> there is a bug for it
[07:37] <spiv> poolie: any objections to me landing https://code.launchpad.net/~bialix/bzr/2.3-py2exe/+merge/55103 ?
[07:38] <spiv> poolie: it's been sitting around for a while and looks safe enough.  My main hesistation is that it's sort-of adding a feature to a stable release series.
[07:39] <spiv> poolie: but my I'm inclined to think it's worthwhile despite that.  I guess you could say that it's fixing a bug (not being able to install plugins when using the windows .exe) rather than adding a feature.
[07:41] <poolie> it's ok with me
[07:42] <poolie> bialix is probably best placed to judge the risk of it
[07:42] <poolie> let's not let it sit anyhow
[07:42] <vila> hi all !
[07:42] <spiv> poolie: thanks!
[07:43] <poolie> oh i was going to ask you to do a pp report
[07:43] <poolie> we've got a bit out of the habit but there were a lot of patches this week
[07:43] <vila> spiv: +1, I think the issue here is that it's landing into core when it's really a windows installer bug
[07:43] <poolie> and you did a lot on them
[07:44] <vila> poolie (et al. ;): config stuff sneak preview available at lp:~vila/bzr/new-config,
[07:44] <vila> beware, it's a loom, but it contains the minimal implementation of the needed building blocks
[07:45] <vila> it still lacks doc (which I will write today)
[07:46] <vila> it's currently ~1000 lines tests + code (evenly split, amazing...) and define 9 threads for review (the upper two are not relevant)
[07:47] <vila> so, to really see where I'm heading you can look at the config-concrete-stores and config-concrete-stacks threads to get an idea
[07:49] <spiv> vila: speaking of configs… https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/bzr/appenddir/+merge/50060 is stalled, and you're probably the best person to unstall it
[07:50] <spiv> vila: is it still Needs Info for you, after the reply from Aaron?
[07:50] <vila> spiv: yeah, that's part of the motivation for focusing on config :)
[07:50] <vila> basically I'd like to get rid of policies as they are today and I'm still unclear about whether this can land soon enough to provide an alternative
[07:51] <spiv> vila: well, at the least put a comment on the merge proposal saying what we're waiting for
[07:51] <spiv> vila: so other people (like patch pilots ;) can understand where it's at, and why
[08:01] <poolie> hi vila
[08:01] <vila> spiv: done
[08:01] <vila> poolie: hey !
[08:01] <poolie> vila i'm not a big fan of policies either, and i'm not very keen to add more of them
[08:02] <vila> poolie: rationale added in the comment
[08:02] <poolie> i think it complicates the user model a fair bit for what it actually buys us
[08:02] <vila> +1
[08:02] <poolie> vila, do you think you could send a short overview of that loom
[08:02] <poolie> like, 3 paragraphs?
[08:03] <vila> poolie: I was about to make a "fake" merge proposal for it with a bit of high level description of the goals, sounds good ?
[08:07] <poolie> mm
[08:07] <poolie> rather than the goals i'd be more interested in
[08:07] <poolie> what changes to the user experience there are, if any
[08:07] <poolie> and what changes to the api there are, if any
[08:08] <poolie> i think we pretty much agree on the goals in your previous mail
[08:08] <vila> ha right, bad words again
[08:09] <vila> I thought new API and what is still needed to actually use it in bzrlib
[08:10] <vila> but also mentioning some issues that this new design is ought to address
[08:12]  * poolie branches it
[08:18] <spiv> vila: thanks!
[08:19] <vila> spiv: does my comment makes sense ? Explain why I was apparently silent on the subject ?
[08:19] <spiv> vila: yes
[08:19] <vila> thanks
[08:19] <poolie> vila, one comment on your docs
[08:19] <vila> https://code.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/new-config/+merge/56887
[08:19] <poolie> (i've done the opposite on this myself in the past)
[08:19] <poolie> and that is, describing the current problems in documentation that is intended to be merged and carry on into the future is bad
[08:20] <vila> forget about the doc in this loom, I plan to rewrite it from the ground up separating user and dev povs
[08:20] <poolie> the config doc starts off with what will be, in september 2011, a description of primitive history
[08:20] <poolie> ok
[08:20] <spiv> poolie: should https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/506265-command-deprecation/+merge/55030 be marked Work In Progress rather than Needs Review?  The last comment suggests you're going to do more work.
[08:20] <poolie> spiv tbh i wouldn't mind a tie-breaker there
[08:20] <vila> poolie: at most, I will outline issues with specific markup or something so they stay up-to-date with the code
[08:21] <poolie> it is not perfect but in some ways i want to just land it
[08:21] <poolie> and then add a general configuration option to turn off particular warnings
[08:21] <poolie> for which i think there is a bug
[08:21] <vila> poolie: oh, I wouldn't mind landing incomplete stuff if it makes further submissions easier to review
[08:21]  * vila LOL
[08:21] <poolie> vila, perhaps the "here's what's bad today" belongs in a bug or a set of bugs
[08:21] <poolie> nice, but i was talking to spiv
[08:22] <vila> poolie: it belongs to devnotes in my mind
[08:22] <vila> poolie: yeah, I understood, was just being silly ;)
[08:23] <vila> poolie: I also thought about easy ways to deprecate config options so if you work on easily deprecating commands I know I
[08:23] <vila> I'll benefit from it (damn badly placed return key !)
[08:24] <spiv> poolie: so what's the downside?  That there's no way for a user to suppress the warnings currently, even if they alias get=branch?
[08:24] <poolie> yes
[08:24] <poolie> that's the only problem i know of
[08:24] <poolie> there may be others
[08:25] <spiv> poolie: Ok, in that case I agree let's just land it and find out if there are any others :)
[08:25] <spiv> poolie: (but file a bug for being able to suppress the warning, if there isn't already)
[08:25]  * spiv updates the MP
[08:25] <vila> poolie: Is the cover letter for https://code.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/new-config/+merge/56887 answer your needs ?
[08:26] <vila> poolie: or do you want more details on say, policies for example, or option converters or <fill the blank>
[08:26] <poolie> spiv, we're more likely to find the unknown unknowns if we land it
[08:26] <poolie> vila it's a good start
[08:27] <spiv> poolie: precisely
[08:27] <spiv> poolie: Be Bold, as wikipedia would say…
[08:27] <vila> poolie: you said 2 or 3 paragraphs, I tried to make it short ;)
[08:29] <spiv> poolie: that makes three approved patches you have waiting to be fed to PQM.  Is there any reason not to run those through feed-pqm now (aside from any inconsequential stuff like needing to set commit messages)?
[08:30]  * spiv is hoping to get http://webnumbr.com/bzr-active-reviews back down to pre-April heights.
[08:38] <poolie> spiv, please do
[08:39] <poolie> i did get some pqm failures earlier but i have not worked them out yet
[08:39] <poolie> you might as well feed all the approved ones though
[08:45] <spiv> Ok, that should keep PQM busy for a while.
[08:45] <poolie> vila: i replied
[08:47] <vila> poolie: hmm, food for thought...
[08:48] <vila> poolie: at first glance I think we agree but don't understand each other yet
[08:48] <poolie> :)
[08:48] <vila> ha, right, I misread 'reusing existing objects' at first read,
[08:49] <vila> you mean we should reuse config files that has been already read from disk ?
[08:49] <vila> (I misread it as: we should reuse python classes we already defined)
[08:49] <spiv> vila: it sounds more like 'reuse instances' than 'reuse classes' to me
[08:50] <vila> yeah, I agree with that, this is not apparent in the implementation but it's definitely on my agenda
[08:50] <vila> so, not apparent *yet*
[08:51] <vila> but roughly there should be something ~like possible_transports for config Stores
[08:51] <spiv> vila: hmm.
[08:52] <poolie> vila, wow, interesting point about fixed bugs
[08:52] <poolie> it reminds me how much i dislike all the 'fix released' bugspam you can get
[08:52] <vila> spiv: the intent being that a given config file should not be read more than once for a given bzrlib operation (as opposed to read once by option today)
[08:52] <poolie> perhaps that idea should really go into lp
[08:53] <poolie> ie merge those states and say the milestone the fix is in is released, or not
[08:53] <spiv> vila: for configs tied to branches or working trees, that might be good.  For globals though I think it'd be weird to have to pass around a param everywhere when it's "global"
[08:53] <vila> spiv: yup, I think we *shouldn't* pass it around *because* it's global
[08:54] <spiv> vila: off the top of my head, poolie's suggestion that it could be stored on the library_state sounds good to me
[08:54] <vila> spiv: it's even defined *outside* of bzrlib: inf files on disks
[08:54] <vila> spiv: yup, agreeing to that too, replying
[08:54] <spiv> vila: cool
[08:55] <vila> spiv: in fact, it's either user (or site) specific and should be tied to libstate, or it's branch/wt specific and should be tied to that
[08:55] <poolie> vila https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/163694
[08:55] <poolie> vila, one specific point for the library_state is:
[08:56] <poolie> if that was done properly, there would not need to be any config-specific test isolation code
[08:56] <poolie> which would be nice
[08:56] <vila> spiv: which should be ... yeah to what poolie said ;)
[08:56] <poolie> (well, there may need to be some to isolate it from the environment in which the tests are run, but we should get for free isolation of one test from the next)
[08:56] <vila> poolie: e-x-a-c-t-l-y
[08:57] <vila> use TestCase and rest assured you're isolated
[08:58] <vila> the more I think about it, the more I view global configs as... compilation options. But because we use python, we can handle them dynamically
[08:58] <vila> Still, you want the code associated with the options to be well tested
[08:59] <vila> and you want easy ways to test them
[09:02] <poolie> well
[09:02] <poolie> even in TestCase, it would be good to have fewer things that specifically isolate different aspects
[09:03] <poolie> spiv thanks for feeding in  https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/659763-non-ascii-gecos/+merge/55862
[09:03] <vila> yup, but some existing things could find their way in configs too
[09:04] <poolie> it could have been polished more but finishing it is more important than getting the skip message precisely right
[09:04] <poolie> that too!
[09:04] <poolie> i have seen many tests that could be better with this
[09:04] <poolie> also it will give them a less ad-hoc way to control what happens in the code under test
[09:12] <vila> poolie: replied, second read mad more sense, I confirm my original feeling ;D
[09:15] <vila> poolie, spiv: Also note that the proposal doesn't make any assumption about what name space is used nor what section names are used/enforced whatever
[09:15] <vila> I knowingly limit myself there to what is used *today*
[09:16] <vila> I still have some strong opinions about how we should change that though ;)
[09:16] <poolie> vila, i need to go soon
[09:16] <poolie> to meet spiv, actually
[09:17] <vila> But hopefully these opinions can be expressed in further submissions focusing the discussion and more importantly *not* blocking the building blocks to land
[09:17] <vila> poolie: no worries, I still have plenty to do
[09:17] <vila> poolie: and I optimistically consider that we agree enough to continue ;)
[09:28] <vila> poolie: gee, bug #163694 has a real high S/N ratio... still reading
[09:30] <poolie> it is nice
[09:31] <maxb> hrm
[09:31]  * maxb gets an unexpected need to re-oauth hydrazine to lp
[09:32] <maxb> poolie: Would it upset you if I set append_revisions_only on hydrazine trunk? :-)
[09:32] <vila> maxb: bad symptom, I remember poolie venting (first time I ever witness that ;) about a lp API change.. may be related
[09:32] <maxb> ironically I think it's poolie's changes which probably caused it for me :-)
[09:33] <maxb> But yes, I am deeply disappointed about launchpadlib's cavalier approach to api compatibility
[09:35] <poolie> maxb, sorry for the bump, please do
[09:35] <poolie> i would like that to actually become the builtin default
[09:35] <poolie> but it will take a bit of consideration
[09:35] <poolie> that reminds me to comment again on that bug
[09:36] <maxb> Well - I think it should be the default for server-hosted always-remote branches, but probably not for local working areas
[09:37] <maxb> or maybe it should be the default even there, but there should be a y/n prompt or dedicated option to say it's ok
[09:37] <maxb> or maybe it should be on for push but off for pull :-)
[09:38]  * maxb stops brainstorming into the channel
[09:39] <vila> options, options, so many gems waiting to be used from inside bzrlib, so little ways to get there (so far ;)
[09:40] <maxb> OK, so to finish the hydrazine point I raised: Yes, hydrazine has changed its credentials storage path and you will need to reauthenticate.
[09:40] <maxb> I wonder if it's worth migrating old credentials
[09:41] <poolie> maxb, are you going to come and meet us in london?
[09:41] <poolie> some of the time?
[09:41] <poolie> it's from the 16th of may on
[09:41] <maxb> oh, that reminds me
[09:41] <vila> . o O (Please say yes)
[09:41] <poolie> ah i was thinking of https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpadlib/+bug/752095
[09:42] <maxb> I was going to send a "Hi, what do you do at these things,  and how much is worth attenting for non-employees?" email
[09:42] <maxb> I have holiday allotment to spare, so I might turn up for the entire week if it's sensible to do so
[09:43] <poolie> so, we'll mostly just pair on things together
[09:43] <poolie> there will be some talking but mostly hacking
[09:44] <poolie> and just hanging out together
[09:44] <poolie> in the evenings or whatever
[09:44] <maxb> hmm. I could finish off some of my limbo-ed bzr-rewrite and udd branches :-)
[09:44] <poolie> that would be nice; you could probably get someone to work on it with you
[09:44] <poolie> it is pretty non-corporate, i would say
[09:45] <poolie> in canonical's early days there was a lot of spec-writing at UDS and other sprints
[09:46] <vila> maxb: It tremendously helps understand each other better to have face-to-face discussions and the consequences are still seen months after a sprint
[09:47] <maxb> Well - sounds like it could be fun, so you'll be seeing me there for some, if not all of the week :-)
[09:47] <vila> \o/
[09:48] <vila> I still remember AfC face from years ago and it gives a different color to everything he said since then, for example
[09:48] <poolie> ok good night guys
[09:48] <poolie> :)
[09:48] <vila> poolie: enjoy your week-end !
[09:49] <vila> maxb: and that's without counting the high bandwidth during the sprint itself of course
[10:14] <vila> poolie: (too bad you're gone) https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/163694/comments/28 ... nicely summarized and cross-linked, S/N enhanced :-)
[10:40] <dije-away> Tried yesterday, trying again today:
[10:41] <dije>  Doing a checkout to my home directory from a branch at ~/bzr_scm/dot, I
[10:41] <dije> get the following error:
[10:42] <dije> bzr: ERROR: Failed to rename /Users/phil/Library/Preferences to
[10:42] <dije> /Users/phil/.bzr/checkout/limbo/new-159/Preferences: [Errno 13] Permission
[10:42] <dije> denied
[10:42] <dije> (On Mac OS X 10.5.8, Titanium PowerBook G4)
[10:42] <vila> dije: from an OSX pov, renaming  /Users/phil/Library/Preference sounds really dangerous
[10:43] <dije> vila: right, so why is bzr doing it?
[10:43] <vila> dije: what do you version in ~/bzr_scm/dot ?
[10:43] <dije> vila: My home config
[10:43] <vila> dije: cause you asked it to :) Why you asked it to is the question
[10:43] <vila> dije: more precisely ?
[10:43] <dije> vila: config files for:
[10:43] <dije> tcsh
[10:43] <dije> emacs
[10:43] <dije> screen
[10:43] <vila> you version files that are under library/preferences ?
[10:44] <dije> ratpoison
[10:44] <dije> vila: I think so
[10:44] <dije> vila: Probably Mozilla*
[10:44] <vila> dije: ok, so to clarify, try to branch in a different directory to see which files are versioned
[10:45] <vila> dije: different from your home directory that is, so ~/test will do
[10:45] <dije> vila: Everything in bzr_scm/dot is versioned, that's its only purpose
[10:45] <vila> dije: I'm searching for specifics, *everything* is not specific
[10:46] <dije> vila: Sorry, answered too soon (after you typed "versioned")
[10:47] <dije> vila: So I'm looking for specific diffs in permissions only, and/or existence vs. non-existence, and/or content diffs?
[10:47] <vila> hard to tell :-/
[10:47] <vila> start for searching for files/dies under lib/prefs
[10:47] <dije> vila: Will get started
[10:47] <vila> dirs not dies
[10:48] <dije> vila: You said branch, I'm trying to checkout; which do I need for this exercise?
[10:49] <vila> also, *why* do you get permission denied there ? what does 'ls -dl lib/prefs' says ?
[10:49] <dije> vila: Set-group-id. Weird
[10:49] <dije> vila: (until I chmod'ed it)
[10:50] <vila> hmm, can you check what is the default chmod for another user ?
[10:50]  * vila curses not having an osx setup at hand
[10:51] <dije> I did, against my own (the machine under discussion is my parents')
[10:51] <dije> I'm maintaining it remotely over ssh
[10:51] <dije> My machine differs in being Intel not PowerPC, but same OS release.
[10:52] <dije> The perms on ~/Library/Preferences show as drwx------+ on my machine
[10:52] <dije> and on theirs as drwx------@ (after I chmod'ed it)
[10:52] <vila> hmm, so that @ is for extended attributes IIRC, but no idea what they are
[10:52] <vila> bzr is still failing after your chmod /
[10:53] <vila> ?
[10:53] <dije> OS X (HFS+) does ACLs, but they've never been used on either machine to my knowledge
[10:53] <dije> bzr is still failing
[10:53] <dije> Same error
[10:53] <vila> attrs can be more than just ACLs IIRC
[10:54] <vila> ok, try to rename it from the finder ?
[10:54] <dije> Rename ~/Library/Preferences?
[10:54] <dije> Sounds dangerous
[10:54] <vila> oh, wait, you don't have weird mounts or something where ~ and ~/lib/prefs are on different volumes right ?
[10:54] <dije> No. Good check though.
[10:55] <vila> dije: yes, this one, you can revert it
[10:55] <vila> if it works from the finder, try from a terminal, I'm trying to see how to reproduce without bzr being involved, it's a file system issue at the root
[10:55] <dije> Oh no, remote machine is gone! Parents are coming to lunch, I think they're bringing it
[10:56] <dije> Sorry
[10:56] <vila> dije: and yes, it's dangerous in itself but
[10:56] <dije> It's near 11am here
[10:56] <vila> oh wait ! You said accessed thru ssh ?
[10:56] <dije> Right, I run screen on their machine and (re-)attach to it over ssh
[10:57] <vila> ha, ok, so bzr runs locally not on top of an ssh fs right ?
[10:57] <dije> Right
[10:57]  * vila rules sshfs fuse bugs
[10:57] <vila> out
[10:57] <dije> yes
[10:58] <dije> It's a single-disk, single-cpu, single-user (mainly), router-and-one-computer-LAN home office setup, absolutely nothing fancy apart from DynDNS and my remote access
[10:59] <vila> ha, finally found an OSX host I can look at with ssh
[10:59] <vila> cd Library ; mv Preferences toto
[10:59] <vila> mv: rename Preferences to toto: Permission denied
[11:00] <vila> ok, so, we can't do that, that's a point, we can now switch to *why* are we trying ;)
[11:00] <dije> ditto on my Intel machine
[11:00] <vila> dije: can you retry your failing co with -Derror
[11:01] <vila> that should give us a traceback, pastebin it and I can look at where it's coming from
[11:01] <dije> Not til they arrive with the laptop! Sorry
[11:01] <vila> lol, oh right, try again later then
[11:01] <dije> Will do, thanks for help so far
[11:02] <vila> dije: or file a bug explaining our discussion a bit, that will make it easier to track for everybody
[11:02] <dije> ok
[11:02] <vila> dije: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+filebug
[11:04] <vila> dije: oh, and don't forget to mention your bzr version and where you installed it from (in case the traceback is not clear enough for that)
[11:10] <dije> vila: will do
[11:11] <dije> FYI: MacPorts package
[11:12] <vila> dije: >-/ We don't often hear about it (as opposed to the installers) but while there are some dark areas regarding the dependencies, we didn't hear about blatant bugs there either
[11:13] <dije> vila: Python should isolate the platform to a degree
[11:13] <vila> hehe, yeah, to a degree and for some values of isolate ;)
[11:13] <dije> Right :-)
[11:14] <dije> I've had MacPorts bzr working on multiple Macs for x > 3 years
[11:14] <vila> but nothing that should be related to your bug anyway, I still can't think of a cause so far
[11:14] <vila> wow, great
[11:14] <vila> and kudos for admin'ing with bzr ;)
[11:14]  * dije blushes
[11:15] <dije> Works great across linux and cygwin too
[11:16] <vila> dije: it it turns out to be a bug related to some internal design, it may be hard (and long) to fix, so, as a *workaround*, I admin some osx hosts myself but instead of versioning the files directly, I use a mix of symlinks or copies of the system files
[11:17] <dije> I don't version any *system files*, just config files under (in this case) system dirs
[11:17] <dije> First time the issue has arisen
[11:17] <vila> right, but the issue is kind of the same, if you need special rights for some operations, using copies works around the issue
[11:18] <dije> Need to take that into account, maybe redesign my repo
[11:18] <vila> I can;t think of why we want to rename Preferences though, unless some weird side-effect ends up triggering it
[11:18] <dije> Already use symlinks extensively
[11:19] <dije> Yes, that does seem strange
[11:19] <vila> yeah, me too, but nothing under prefs so far, only under LaunchAgents in fact
[11:21] <vila> I know Preferences is localized when looked at from the finder, but at the fs level, it's always Preferences
[11:21] <vila> so this should *also* rules out any fancy language change from your parents
[11:22] <dije> had not thought of that!
[11:26] <dije> More weird detail: the target dir *used* to be versioned, but when I tried to sync up for the first time in quite a while (x > 6 months) I found no .bzr dir
[11:27] <vila> oops, someone deleted it ?
[11:27] <dije> The branch in ~/bzr_scm/dot was intact and synced fine with my remote machine
[11:27] <vila> or moved it ?
[11:27] <dije> Well, "someone" could only have been me
[11:27] <vila> no restore from backup ?
[11:27] <dije> In a fugue state
[11:28] <dije> This *is* my restore-from-backup strategy
[11:28] <vila> dije, well, your parents can too no ? They have physical access to the mac I presume ;)
[11:28] <dije> Yes but not admin, and they have nothing like the skills to single-user-boot
[11:28] <vila> maybe moved somewhere else ?
[11:28] <dije> Maybe
[11:28] <vila> err, wait, oh you mean that's inside your own account ?
[11:28] <dije> Right
[11:28] <vila> aaah
[11:29] <vila> yeah, of course, makes sense
[11:29]  * dije spots light going on over vila's head
[11:29] <vila> eheh
[11:30]  * dije holds breath
[11:31] <vila> no no keep breathing ;)
[11:31] <dije> phew
[11:32] <vila> ha, one possible scenario (but hairy)
[11:32] <vila> you somehow, by working on two different branches (one local, one remote), added Preferences twice
[11:33] <vila> each add creating its own file-ID for it
[11:33] <dije> omg
[11:33] <dije> sounds feasible
[11:33] <vila> now, updating the remote tree, creates a conflict to tell you that (A so-called Content Conflict: the same name for two different objects)
[11:34] <vila> *This* could lead to an attempt to rename the dir
[11:34] <vila> ha no, wait, that's simpler than that !
[11:34] <dije> Really?
[11:34] <vila> You're trying to checkout an existing branch onto an existing tree and bzr try to move the items that are on its way !
[11:35] <dije> Yes, lots and lots of them
[11:35] <vila> damn, I didn't realize the fallouts of 'the .bzr dir has disappear'
[11:35] <vila> wow, hmm, how to recover from that...
[11:36] <dije> Can't checkout to some new dir, then move files including .bzr/ ?
[11:36] <vila> the most obvious will be to create a clean tree somewhere and just move the .bzr dir
[11:36] <dije> That answers that :-)
[11:37] <dije> So the move of .bzr is necessary; is it sufficient, or do I need to move all the checked-out files (that differ) as well?
[11:37] <vila> dije: hmm, I think you found a nice bug, trying to do a checkout in an already populated directory is likely to cause chaos and we shouldn't even try (unless there are use cases that escape me at the moment)
[11:37] <vila> dije: no, that's the nice bit
[11:38] <vila> move the .bzr dir only (restore it in fact)
[11:38] <vila> and 'bzr st' will tell you about the changes
[11:38] <dije> Use cases like this PEBKAC ?
[11:38] <vila> from there you can decide if you want to 'bzr commit' or 'bzr revert'
[11:38] <vila> dije: It's hard to say
[11:39] <vila> as you present it, you're just trying to restore order and bzr answer is creating even more chaos, not *that* helpful ;)
[11:39] <vila> Now, recovery plans are not always the cleanest process in the world...
[11:40] <dije> vila: Great, this gives me hope. So, I checkout to ~/foo, then mv ~/foo/.bzr ~/, then either bzr commit or bzr revert.
[11:40] <vila> dije: 'bzr st' first !
[11:40] <dije> Where do I bzr st first, in ~ or ~/foo?
[11:40] <vila> dije: both :)
[11:41] <vila> dije: to make sure we don't run into path issues:
[11:41] <dije> Hang on, can't 'bzr st' in ~ ... no ~/.bzr!
[11:41] <vila> cd ~/foo ; bzr st; bzr info
[11:41] <dije> OK
[11:41] <vila> check the paths mentioned by the later if some are relative you may run into trouble by moving .bzr
[11:41] <vila> if they are absolute, you should be fine, so:
[11:42] <vila> mv ~/foo/.bzr ~/
[11:42] <vila> cd ~
[11:42] <vila> bzr st
[11:42] <dije> OK
[11:42] <vila> should tell you the differences between the basis revision (the one defined in the branch) and the actual content on disk
[11:43] <vila> from that, it should be obvious to you, either the tree is correct: bzr commit
[11:43] <vila> or the tree is wrong: bzr revert
[11:43] <dije> Got it. You are a genius.
[11:43] <dije> What if paths are relative?
[11:43] <vila> if it's a mix, well, 'bzr revert <file>' or 'bzr commit -m 'recover from ???' <file>'
[11:44] <dije> Can I edit something under ~/.bzr to fix paths?
[11:44] <vila> dije: you will need to edit them in /.bzr/branch/branch.conf probably
[11:44] <dije> Cool
[11:44] <vila> dije: you're a fast learner :)
[11:45] <vila> dije: really, the missing bit was '.bzr disappear' and I'm trying to recover
[11:45] <dije> Right
[11:45] <vila> dije: I may have understood faster what was going on if you started with that, but, hey, bug reporting when you know what the bug is is so easy ;D
[11:46] <dije> Right, hindsight helps
[11:46] <vila> dije: worth filing a bug *anyway* if only to remind us how confusing the error was for you (and even for me)
[11:46] <dije> Techie view is to start with the detail instead of the big picture
[11:47] <vila> yeah, not blaming you here, just sharing thoughts
[11:47] <vila> I'm not sure I would have done better...
[11:48] <dije> Understood
[11:48] <vila> but telling the story often works better than focusing on the end ;)
[11:48] <dije> Ain't it the truth?
[11:48] <vila> on the other hand, some stories are full of useless details :D
[11:49] <vila> doomed if you do...
[11:49] <vila> ok, lunch time here, bbl
[11:52] <dije> thanks
[11:55] <cheater99> hi
[11:56] <cheater99> is it very difficult to set up bzr on a server so that i can check in files from home and the office?
[11:57] <vila> cheater99: if bzr is installed on the server *and* you also happen to have ssh available there *then* you're all set
[11:58] <vila> cheater99: i.e. if the server is unix-based, you're done, if it's windows.... it's harder but doable, but I don't remember who knows about the gory details
[12:35] <cheater99> vila: yeah i have a dedicated slicehost server
[12:35] <cheater99> with ubuntu 10.04 on it with root access
[12:35] <Peng> Excellent. No problem, then.
[12:35] <cheater99> so how does it work then? is there some sort of tutorial?
[12:35] <Peng> Ubuntu even has a package for bzr, though it ain't entirely up-to-date.
[12:36] <cheater99> what is missing in the package?
[12:36] <Peng> Missing?
[12:38] <cheater99> well you said it was out of date
[12:38] <cheater99> so there are probably some cool new features missing, or bad bugs, otherwise there wouldn't be a mention, right?
[12:39]  * Peng shrugs
[12:39] <Peng> I don't know anything specific at the moment. Distro packages are never entirely up-to-date, which is usually okay.
[12:41] <cheater99> oh ok :)
[12:51] <Peng> It's okay unless a newer version has the *one* feature or *one* minor bug fix you need. ;-)
[13:15] <jam> Peng: that's what ppa's are for :)
[13:16] <cheater99> Peng: :)
[13:17] <Peng> Right. I should've mentioned that...
[13:17] <cheater99> nah, don't want to bother with ppa's
[13:20] <Peng> Well, you don't have to, but it wouldn't be much of a bother anyway.
[13:21] <Peng> dash____________: Quite a tail you've got there.
[13:22] <\sh> moins...has anyone the new location of the bzr eclipse package? http://verterok.com.ar/bzr-eclipse/update-site/ <- doesn't work...
[13:23] <vila> cheater99: with 10.04 it's only 'add-apt-repository ppa:bzr' *once* and then you get stable releases for bzr and plugins as you get the updates for Ubuntu itself
[13:23] <cheater99> hmm
[13:23] <vila> err, that's ppa:bzr/ppa sorry
[13:23] <cheater99> but i don't see any need for a newer version
[13:24] <vila> right, your choice, but lucid carries only 2.1 and we almost don't backport fixes on 2.1 anymore
[13:25] <cheater99> do you think lucid will upgrade to a newer bzr?
[13:25] <vila> anyway, back to your initial question, once bzr is installed and an ssh server active, you're set, you can start using bzr+ssh: urls
[13:26] <vila> lucid will receive SRUs when we get to that, it carries 2.1.1 now and we have 2.1.2, 2.1.3 already released but not SRUed
[13:27] <cheater99> what are SRU's?
[13:28] <vila> ha, soory for the jargon, roughly they are described here http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/UbuntuStableReleaseUpdates for bzr with links to more general definitions
[13:28] <jam> cheater99: SRU is getting an updated version into the official Ubuntu Updates repositories
[13:29] <cheater99> gotcha
[13:30] <cheater99> ok, when an SRU for 2.2.4 happens, will it be put in the ubuntu 10.04 repository?
[13:30] <cheater99> or will it be put in maverick or something like that?
[13:30] <jam> cheater99: it isn't the original repo, it s the "updates" one, so I think you have to enable it, but it will be the 10.04 repo
[13:30] <vila> cheater99: try 'rmadison bzr' , SRUs will never cross series
[13:30] <cheater99> ok, gotcha
[13:31] <vila> so lucid will for ever carries 2.1
[13:31] <jam> vila: right, so if you want 2.3.x, then you want a ppa
[13:31] <cheater99> ah ok, gotcha
[13:31] <vila> cheater99: that's why Peng mentioned the ppa, with the stable ppa, you'll get the most stable release, which is 2.3 currently
[13:31] <verterok> \sh: I'm trying to get the server fixed...should be available soon-ish
[13:31] <cheater99> i thought i would get 2.3 in the end, just later
[13:31] <vila> jam: yup, you're typing faster than me ;)
[13:31] <cheater99> but in this case, let me set up the ppa
[13:32] <vila> cheater99: err, if you setup the ppa, you'll get 2.3 *now*
[13:32] <vila> cheater99: which is fine :)
[13:32] <cheater99> yes
[13:32] <cheater99> that is what i have meant, i will get 2.3 when i use the ppa, i will not if i don't
[13:32] <vila> cheater99: and you'll get updates faster as building for the ppas is lighter than going through the SRU proces
[13:33] <vila> ha, right, yes, that's it
[13:33] <vila> . o O (With such a nick, I thought he will prefer the ppa...) :D
[13:36] <cheater99> lol
[13:37] <cheater99> ok, i think something is broken. now i have added the wrong repository :D
[13:38] <vila> how so ?
[13:39] <cheater99> i copy-pasted without fixing the ppa url :D
[13:39] <cheater99> now i am wondering how to fix this using the command line
[13:39] <vila> and you ended up adding what then ?
[13:40] <cheater99> add-apt-repository ppa:bzr
[13:40] <vila> cheater99: I don't remember the details for lucid, but it's either in /etc/apt/sources.list or /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[13:40] <cheater99> the funny thing is i cannot find the ppa in /etc/apt/sources.list
[13:40] <cheater99> ok it's in .d
[13:40] <vila> ha, good
[13:42] <vila> cheater99: in any case, it's described at https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa
[13:42] <cheater99> =)
[13:42] <vila> honestly, I have no idea where ppa:bzr is pointing to... what what the url in apt ?
[13:43] <vila> what was ! (grr)
[13:43] <cheater99> not sure anymore
[13:43] <cheater99> let me add it again and see
[13:43] <vila> never mind
[13:43] <cheater99> nah let me do it just a sec
[13:43] <cheater99> now i wish the python-support trigger weren't so sluggish
[13:43] <cheater99> that's the one thing i hate about installing things on ubuntu right now :D
[13:45] <\sh> verterok: ah thx a lot :)
[13:47] <cheater99> ok it turns out to be deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
[13:48] <cheater99> whereas the "correct" url that you gave me later does: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
[13:48] <cheater99> so, the same thing in the end :D
[13:48] <vila> lol
[13:48] <vila> so what is broken then ?
[13:48] <cheater99> nothing i guess
[13:48] <vila> ha cool
[13:49] <cheater99> it just works
[13:49] <vila> yeah, ppas are lovely
[13:53] <vila> and add-apt-repository really closes the loop, before karmic you needed to hand-edit sources.list *and* fetch the gpg key too after copying it from somewhere (when possible)
[13:58] <cheater99> ok, now i have a problem: add-apt-repository doesn't exist on 10.04 on slicehost
[13:58] <cheater99> and aptitude search brings up nothing either :D
[13:58] <vila> 8-/
[13:58] <cheater99> googling..
[13:59] <cheater99> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1320536
[14:01] <cheater99> aight, getting bzr installed!
[14:04] <vila> apt-get install apt-file ;  apt-file search add-apt-repository, pfew that was tedious and so slower than you ;)
[14:04] <vila> but at least I now know how to do it :D
[14:11] <cheater99> :D
[14:32] <jelmer> busy day for pqm today :)
[14:51] <cheater99> ok.. i am doing my initial commit, and it's not big, it's just under maybe 100 mb, but i'm not sure what is going on with it
[14:51] <cheater99> it's stuck at "^[[Bloading data to master branch - Stage:Fetching revisions:Get stream source"  ... ok pressed some buttons
[15:01] <jam> cheater99: if you are using a checkout, then it is copying the 100MB you just committed up to your remote branch.
[15:01] <cheater99> yeah i am
[15:02] <cheater99> i was a bit surprised that it was so silent and there was no progress indicator
[15:02] <cheater99> i was afraid it hung up
[15:02] <jam> cheater99: I'm surprised there isn't a progress indicator
[15:02] <cheater99> nope none
[15:02] <cheater99> is this a bug?
[15:03] <jam> cheater99: not one that I know of. Feel free to report one
[15:04] <cheater99> would you yourself expect an indicator there?
[15:08] <jam> yes
[15:08] <jam> if there is a lot of transport activity going on, we should be indicating it
[15:23] <cheater00> i would even say just have a spinner show up after a few seconds
[15:23] <cheater00> to show activity...
[15:24] <cheater00> and, if it takes even longer, have an interactive input ("Press v to monitor progress") which starts showing you what's going on
[15:24] <cheater00> this could probably show up after half a minute, and people wouldn't be freaking out
[19:17] <kirkland> question about bzr-builddeb ...
[19:17] <kirkland> as of *very* recently, i can no longer test/build with bzr bd, if my distribution is "unreleased"
[19:18] <kirkland> this is kind of a bummer, as I *always* do that, before go through my release processes
[19:18] <kirkland> is this a bug, or new behavior by design?
[19:19] <kirkland> bzr: ERROR: Unknown distribution: unreleased.
[19:22] <maxb> I seem to recall some conversation about that
[19:23]  * maxb tries to recall *where*
[19:23] <kirkland> maxb: my build/release scripts are all broken right now, and i'm trying to find a workaround :-(
[19:27] <maxb> kirkland: What version are you using, because I'm seeing a recent commit claiming to specially support UNRELEASED
[19:27] <kirkland> maxb: bzr                               2.3.1-1ubuntu1
[19:27] <maxb> kirkland: of bzr-builddeb
[19:28] <kirkland> maxb: bzr-builddeb                      2.7.2
[19:28] <kirkland> maxb: tis what's in Natty 11.04
[19:31] <maxb> kirkland: wait, "unreleased", literally? Not "UNRELEASED" ?
[19:31] <kirkland> maxb: i have tried both
[19:32] <kirkland> maxb: with lowercase, I get:
[19:32] <kirkland> bzr: ERROR: Unknown distribution: unreleased.
[19:32] <kirkland> maxb: with upper case, I get:
[19:32] <kirkland> bzr: ERROR: Unknown distribution: None.
[19:33] <kirkland> maxb: which is a little odd ;-)
[19:33] <maxb> Ah.... is there one and only one changelog entry in this debian/changelog ?
[19:43] <maxb> kirkland: ?
[19:44] <kirkland> maxb: yes, exactly, new package
[19:44] <maxb> Right, ok then.
[19:45] <maxb> So 1) the existing changes break using bzr bd on new packages
[19:45] <maxb> 2) the existing changes forbid the use of bzr bd for arbitrary third-party repositories
[19:45] <maxb> both are nasty bugs IMO
[19:46] <kirkland> maxb: yeah, thanks
[19:46] <maxb> kirkland: I will be pushing a branch with a proposed fix shortly
[19:46] <kirkland> maxb: great, thanks
[19:47] <kirkland> maxb: i'll +1 that for getting into Natty, as it's going to make my life hell, managing dozens of projects/packages in lp/bzr
[19:48] <maxb> james_w: Are you around to comment on this? (This being that bzr-builddeb should not error if it cannot recognize the distribution of the top changelog entry?)
[19:51] <maxb> kirkland: If you would like to test out my branch, "bzr branch lp:~maxb/bzr-builddeb/no-error-unknown-distro ~/.bazaar/plugins/builddeb"
[19:57] <kirkland> maxb: will do, give me a couple of minutes ...
[20:18] <james_w> maxb, indeed it should not
[20:21] <maxb> branch merge-proposed :-)
[21:09] <Deathzor> hey guys just wondering is there some way to push into a different branch then you pull from ( without having the user change the target )
[21:09] <dash> Deathzor: sure, 'bzr push <url>'
[21:15] <Deathzor> dash: not exactly what i'm looking for but oke ( i'm trying to find some way of hooking in a testing system at the central repo ) that allows me to make sure i don't accept any untested code.


[05:41] <andrew_46> guiverc: This one: https://blinkenshell.org/wiki/Start
[05:41] <andrew_46> I only really use it to keep irssi alive
[05:43] <guiverc> :) thanks andrew_46


[15:02] <wxl> alternates haven't been building; should get new ones today
[15:02] <wxl> …in about 2 hours
[15:17] <wxl> phillw: heh rkeene came on and did something witht hte syscalls such that root had only read only access XD
[15:20] <phillw> wxl: he he :)
[15:20] <phillw> well, that would stop them deleting /etc :P
[15:20] <wxl> yeah hehehehe
[15:22] <wxl> OH
[15:22] <wxl> i'm on the wrong channel again aren't i?
[18:17] <MrBIOS> re, anybody here at ubucon and/or SCALE?


[13:07] <urcked> Hi. Help Needed. trying to set-up a vpn but despite installing network-manager-openvpn. there is no option to create a VPN in Network manager
[13:07] <urcked> Been doing this for hours and getting tiring
[20:54] <SharkWuff> Hey guys i been trying to get my headphone to work and webcam as well but no joy
[23:27] <Weik11> hello
[23:28] <Weik11> im new with lubuntu and i have problems with wifi please can help me?


[05:57] <AKSet> hi
[06:06] <AKSet> how i can create new project?
[11:10] <mrqtros> Hi all
[11:10] <mrqtros> Does someone from UI toolkit team is here? :)
[12:10] <mrqtros> Used Slider component first time - filled three bugs. Looks like a joke :D
[15:59] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[16:43] <AskUbuntu> frequent abnormal shutdowns/system crashes so many times | http://askubuntu.com/q/348374
[17:58] <GuidoPallemans> how can I apply my app for the wednesday design show?