[00:17] <ElderDryas> I Found It!!!
[00:19] <ElderDryas> Turning on the GNOME services causes my laptop to drop a Blue Screen (Not Of Death) over the screen after login (which is automatic).
[00:19] <ElderDryas> Only took me a week :(
[00:24] <charlie-tca> glad you found it, finally :)
[00:25] <ElderDryas> Wonder why? (the screen, not why so long, I know that, I'm ignorant :)
[00:25] <charlie-tca> apparently gnome hates us?
[00:28] <ElderDryas> There are times I want my Apple ][ back
[00:28] <ElderDryas> charlie-tca: any chance you can confirm this?
[00:28] <charlie-tca> no, I don't install gnome if I can avoid it
[00:29] <charlie-tca> I try for as little gnome stuff as possible here
[00:30] <ElderDryas> well, Sessions and Startup>Advanced>click Launch GNOME services on startup is what causes it for me
[00:31] <ElderDryas> oh well....
[00:33] <charlie-tca> REally?
[00:33] <charlie-tca> File the bug, I will try to confirm while testing this week.
[00:33] <ElderDryas> yup, that's whay I hoped you could confirm/deny it before I head over to bug HQ
[00:35] <ElderDryas> Wonder why rythmbox always wants a reboot after install...back in a minute...unless something else goes wrong
[00:36]  * ElderDryas beats his head against the desk L(
[00:39]  * ElderDryas sticks his head out the window...maybe it's full moon...nope.
[00:40] <charlie-tca> heh, I did the wall-to-head thing yesterday. It did not really help much
[00:41] <ElderDryas> Now rhythmbox has no straming/radio
[00:41] <ElderDryas> And it hurts more when the hair has gone
[00:43] <charlie-tca> I could see the hurt more thing, sure. ;)
[00:44] <charlie-tca> noted desk instead of wall, too.
[00:44] <ElderDryas> Well, the desk is oak...drywall dents and then my wife makes me fix it
[00:46] <charlie-tca> drywall is softer, though
[00:49] <ElderDryas> I quit for the night :(
[04:11] <zus> ALMOST!!!!! grrrr
[04:13] <zus> anyone using xchat and have OP, ban kick buttons options up?
[04:15] <zus> hmm wrong chat... /:)
[04:15] <zenrox> i have them
[04:15] <zenrox> lol
[04:15] <zenrox> hehehe
[04:15] <zus> im having font issue, and half the labels are off wont fit on the screen
[04:16] <zenrox> change the font
[04:16] <zenrox> in xchat
[04:16] <zus> thing is  i was using the default font , and had only  installed my  nvidia drivers
[04:17] <zus> menu items are Teeny tiny, right clicks for cut n paste is  huger,
[04:17] <zenrox> hmm
[04:17] <zus> screen in "where were reading" is normal, but tabs for channels are huger
[04:19] <zenrox> maby your screen size in nvida drivers needs to be set up right
[04:19] <zus> maybe,  but i dont see anything out of the ordinary, res1440X900
[04:19] <zenrox> hmm
[04:24] <zus> well zenrox  thanks though, im going to go to the  channel i meant to ask in. :)
[05:31] <raevol> anyone know how to select the default output device for pulseaudio?
[05:32] <Sysi> with pavucontrol
[05:32] <raevol> so in that i see i can set a "fallback" but is there a way to set a default that i am not seeing?
[05:33] <raevol> or is that the same thing?
[05:34] <Sysi> just selecting output device should work
[05:34] <raevol> i found a solution in paprefs to output to all devices simultaneously
[05:34] <raevol> thanks though!
[08:33] <xubuntu742> bonjour a tous
[08:33] <xubuntu742> je suis en train de faire une installe  de xubuntu
[08:33] <bazhang> !fr
[08:34] <xubuntu742> ok sorry
[11:12] <joesepp> Can anyone help with Keyboard Layouts panel applet?
[11:13] <joesepp> it doesn't remeber the default layout, nor the key combination to change layout after reboot.
[11:14] <joesepp> overall there is a problem with shortcut keys
[11:16] <joesepp> anyone?
[11:22] <Mahy> hi there, I've got one question. Can somebody please tell me, whether or not the new upcoming Xubuntu release (11.10) provides a tool to switch keyboard layouts (either by mouseclick or a keybord shortcut)? THX in advance. Mahy.
[11:24] <joesepp> Mahy: are you using one now?
[11:24] <Mahy> ATM I'm using plain Gnome Ubuntu 10.10
[11:26] <joesepp> Mahy: there is a plugin (xfce4-xkb-plugin) for that right now
[11:28] <joesepp> Mahy: actually i had a question before about the plugin cos' it's not remembering the shortcut to change the layout
[11:28] <joesepp> Mahy: but mouseclick works fine
[11:31] <Mahy> joesepp: thanks a lot, I'll give that plugin a try. Much better than editing xorg.conf. Not that I'm opposed to editing config files in general, but this shoul be supported by the GUI desktop
[11:34] <joesepp> Mahy: you're welcome
[14:48] <blackmoth> hi! i have a question regarding the swap after xubuntu installation..anyone can help?
[14:49] <Sysi> you could've just ask
[14:50] <blackmoth> my problem is..during pre installation i made a swap partition of 4gb then once the installation was done my swap partition is gone?
[14:50] <blackmoth> i tried to swapon -a but it cannot locate the swap partition?
[14:51] <blackmoth> i reinstalled twice already still no swap partition...also when i open gparted before trying the to install again the swap partition was deleted?
[14:52] <blackmoth> any thoughts of this? thanks
[14:52] <Sysi> what partitioning option did you use, custom? (and why do you need 4GB swap)
[14:53] <blackmoth> yeah
[14:53] <blackmoth> custom partition
[14:53] <Sysi> if you run 'cat /etc/fstab | grep swap' do you get anything?
[14:53] <Sysi> maybe sudo cat
[14:53] <blackmoth> does setting a swap to 4gb would cause that problem?
[14:54] <Sysi> shouldn't
[14:54] <Sysi> I just wonder how you're gonna use it
[14:55] <blackmoth> # swap was on /dev/sdb6 during installation
[14:55] <blackmoth> #UUID=5fad553a-1af4-4330-92aa-848df3050355 none            swap    sw              0       0
[14:55] <blackmoth> /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 none swap sw 0 0
[14:55] <blackmoth> i get that result
[14:55] <Sysi> hum, say it's created but still commented out
[14:56] <Sysi> encryption might has something to do with that..
[14:57] <blackmoth> also during installation forgot which one there was a permission problem...
[14:57] <blackmoth> is there a log during installation so i could scan it?
[15:00] <blackmoth> also when i check on gparted the 4gb swap partition was deleted and reduced to 1.7gb or something
[15:00] <charlie-tca> um, noted...
[15:00] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview#Boot.2C_installation_and_post-install
[15:01] <charlie-tca> see second item
[15:01] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: bug 709363
[15:02] <blackmoth> i see
[15:02] <blackmoth> whats the work around?
[15:02] <blackmoth> maybe setting it to 2gb instead of 4?
[15:05] <charlie-tca> appears to be a possible workaround in comment #15 of the bug. However, if you can reproduce, try what the developer asked in comment #7, please. There is no official fix or workaround because the devs could not reproduce the issue
[15:07] <blackmoth> ok ill try to fiddle with it a bit.. thanks for the link
[15:08] <charlie-tca> You are welcome. Any help with debugging that thing would be really useful.
[16:17] <Boscop> hi
[16:24] <Boscop> I had two partitions on my hard drive (sda1: windows 7, sda2: windows xp). I wanted to install xubuntu instead of windows 7 and during the installation I chose to split the first partition into a 4GB swap partition and the main one. after successful installation of xubuntu grub showed that sda2 contained windows 7 (which isn't true since it contains win xp. maybe it got confused because I had I installed windows 7 first and then xp, s
[16:25] <Boscop> lecting the "windows 7" entry in grub) I got an error "file missing or corrupted: c:\windows\system32\hal.dll". I used the recovery cd to execute "expand d:\i386\hal.dl_ c:\windows\system32" (which replaced the hal.dll file) but the error persisted. my guess is that the hal.dll file is alright but the windows bootloader is corrupted. neither the windows 7 cd nor the windows xp cd were able to repair it. currently I cannot boot into xu
[16:25] <Boscop> (I also tried fixmbr and fixboot inthe recovery console)
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Boscop: I suspect the windows 7 takes priority over XP, and in trying to remove it, perhaps the entire partition sda1 did not get used, resulting in XP moving to sda3
[16:29] <blackmoth> hi i did reproduce the installation and followed the instruction on #7 on swap bug
[16:30] <blackmoth> registering right now to upload the file
[16:30] <blackmoth> any dev around?
[16:30] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: thank you very much. I will look at it as soon as you are done
[16:30] <blackmoth> ok
[16:31] <Boscop> charlie-tca: yes, since the first partition got split into two, XP is now on the third, but it doesn't know it
[16:31] <blackmoth> i have two files the debuglog during the installation and the syslog after installation
[16:31] <blackmoth> should i upload the two?
[16:31] <Boscop> charlie-tca: how can I fix it?
[16:32] <charlie-tca> Boscop: I suspect you have to reinstall xp
[16:32] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: yes, please
[16:33] <Boscop> charlie-tca: oh no, not again :( I already had to reinstall it twice
[16:34] <charlie-tca> did you find xp yet?
[16:34] <charlie-tca> maybe examine the partitions using gparted, it should show what the ntfs partitions are
[16:35] <focalt> hey guys
[16:35] <focalt> I need some advice
[16:35] <Boscop> charlie-tca: http://pastebin.com/cay467pT
[16:35] <focalt> I found a old computer
[16:35] <charlie-tca> focalt: use it?
[16:35] <Boscop> XP still seems to be on sda2
[16:35] <focalt> a pentiumIII
[16:36] <focalt> charlie-tca, but I have bios coded, and usb ports don't recognize pen drives...
[16:36] <focalt> hoe can I install xubuntu?
[16:36] <focalt> on it
[16:36] <charlie-tca> Boscop: it does. Let me see if I can find a reference to try and fix it
[16:36] <charlie-tca> focalt: use a cd drive?
[16:36] <Boscop> charlie-tca: thanks
[16:37] <charlie-tca> I use cd s on all my systems. I think I have one out of five might boot from usb now
[16:38] <focalt> charlie-tca, but how can I set boot order to cd drive, if I have no access to bios?
[16:41] <charlie-tca> Boscop: maybe https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringWindows
[16:41] <charlie-tca> focalt: why no bios access?
[16:41] <charlie-tca> try hitting ins, del, F2, F7, F10, F11, F12 on boot?
[16:42] <blackmoth> charlie: only one attachment per comment in the comment section?
[16:42] <charlie-tca> Depending on the manufacturer, I have computers that use all of those to enter bios
[16:42] <blackmoth> charlie: only one attachment allowed per comment in the comment section?
[16:42] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: yes, sorry
[16:42] <blackmoth> ok
[16:42] <charlie-tca> Got to make two entries for two attachments
[16:42] <focalt> charlie-tca, it asks a password
[16:43] <charlie-tca> focalt: I see. Then you should look the thing up in google and find "how to clear cmos"
[16:43] <charlie-tca> there will be a jumper on the motherboard, most of the time
[16:44] <blackmoth> is he using a laptop?
[16:44] <blackmoth> if its desktop just take out the battery and re insert
[16:45] <focalt> charlie-tca, thanks
[16:45] <Boscop> charlie-tca: I already copied the hal.dll from the cd. and btw there is no hal.dll in my c:\windows\system32\dllcache
[16:46] <charlie-tca> Good luck. I managed to find all of the old systems I gained, but it took some digging for at least one of them
[16:46] <charlie-tca> maybe something in
[16:46] <charlie-tca> !grub
[16:46] <charlie-tca> would help, since the system is not seeing the right things in grub?
[16:50] <blackmoth> um charlie sorry about the double post on the comments
[16:51] <blackmoth> am having isp problems right now
[16:51] <blackmoth> you could erase comment  19
[16:51] <charlie-tca> No problem, we can work around it.
[16:51] <charlie-tca> I can't remove it, but we can put a note in that it is the same as...
[16:54] <charlie-tca> I see comment 18, 19, 20, all three are the same log file?
[16:54] <blackmoth> yeah
[16:54] <blackmoth> what does it says on 20?
[16:54] <blackmoth> syslog?
[16:55] <blackmoth> woah sorry about that
[16:55] <blackmoth> am still upload the syslog
[16:55] <blackmoth> 18 ,19,20 are the same file
[16:55] <Boscop> charlie-tca: I found this article: http://www.comitservices.com/wp/?p=12 my boot.ini looks like this: http://pastebin.com/9L8fQ4sV is the 'partition(2)' correct? I can't run DISKPART now, so I don't know how which nr that partition will have in windows, but maybe you can deduce that from the 'fdisk -l' output I pasted above?
[16:56] <charlie-tca> It's okay, I know to say they are the same, by mistake
[16:57] <blackmoth> its because my isp right now is so slow...so i have to wait for the upload to load...i think i pressed the post comment twice
[16:58] <Boscop> charlie-tca: in the 'fdisk -l' output, sda2 is the 2nd partition, so it should work (right?), but it doesn't.
[16:59] <blackmoth> charlie could i send you the syslog here? it seems faster...my browsing speed right now is very slow
[17:00] <charlie-tca> Boscop: not having touched windows in years, I don't know if it is c: or d:, but sda2 is the second partition. However, I question if XP might be found instead on sdb1 or sdc1, both identified as windows partitions
[17:01] <charlie-tca> sdb1 would be D:, and sdc1 would be e:, I think
[17:01] <Boscop> charlie-tca: no, they weren't plugged in then. they are external disks
[17:03] <charlie-tca> hm, under the rules for grub in older versions, sda1 == 0, sda2 == 1. Maybe try changing the partition to 1 for xp in grub?
[17:05] <blackmoth> hmm i cant upload the 4mb syslog..my internet connection right now is very freaking slow
[17:06] <blackmoth> btw charlie what was the command again for checking the UUID for the swap partition?
[17:06] <blackmoth> the one you gave me earlier
[17:09] <Boscop> charlie-tca: grub is corrupted now that I ran fixmbr and fixboot. I'll have to reinstall grub later. the question is, what should I put in the boot.ini file?
[17:09] <charlie-tca> nothiung
[17:10] <charlie-tca> it is using grub2, which builds the file itself.
[17:11] <Boscop> charlie-tca: right now grub doesn't show up when I boot
[17:12] <Boscop> charlie-tca: so I can't even boot into xubuntu
[17:12] <charlie-tca> hold down the rightshift after bios checks. It should show up
[17:14] <Boscop> charlie-tca: and then just reinstall grub from within xubuntu and it should fix boot.ini accordingly?
[17:15] <blackmoth> ill upload the syslog tomorrow once my isp problem is fix
[17:20] <charlie-tca> yup
[17:20] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: okay
[17:20] <charlie-tca> Boscop: yes, to the best of my knowledge
[17:21] <blackmoth> hmm i tried to open the fstab and found out that the uuid of the swap was commented?
[17:22] <Boscop> charlie-tca: if that doesn't work, would it help to delete the swap partition so that I only have two again?
[17:22] <Boscop> (I guess not, since the new partitions were appended at the end)
[17:22] <charlie-tca> Boscop: probably not, that usually makes it harder to straighten out
[17:22] <Boscop> ok
[17:24] <blackmoth> # swap was on /dev/sdb6 during installation
[17:24] <blackmoth> #UUID=94405326-29be-472d-8f6d-ac868695d733 none            swap    sw              0       0
[17:24] <blackmoth> /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 none swap sw 0 0
[17:24] <blackmoth> charlie should i uncomment the swap uuid and comment on /dev?
[17:25] <charlie-tca> I don't know
[17:26] <charlie-tca> looks like uncomment the uuid line and leave the other one alone
[17:26] <blackmoth> tried to reproduce the instruction on # 15
[17:27] <charlie-tca> I would try that first. If it doesn't work, then comment the /dev line]
[17:27] <charlie-tca> I would try that first. If it doesn't work, then comment the /dev line :(
[17:27] <blackmoth> i tried
[17:27] <blackmoth> # swap was on /dev/sdb6 during installation
[17:27] <blackmoth> #UUID=94405326-29be-472d-8f6d-ac868695d733 none            swap    sw              0       0
[17:27] <blackmoth> /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 none swap sw 0 0
[17:27] <blackmoth> opps
[17:27] <blackmoth> swapon: cannot find the device for UUID=94405326-29be-472d-8f6d-ac868695d733
[17:27] <blackmoth> still cant find the device
[17:28] <blackmoth> does this problem only occur if you set the swap file above 2gb during installation?
[17:28] <charlie-tca> Did you uncomment the uuid line?
[17:28] <charlie-tca> also, make sure the uuid is correct
[17:29] <blackmoth> how to check for the uuid?
[17:29] <blackmoth> that uuid was already on the fstab
[17:29] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: no, it happens for the encrypted drive. It doesn't care how big/small the swap file is
[17:30] <charlie-tca> you have to verify the uuid is correct for sdb6
[17:30] <blackmoth> how?
[17:30] <charlie-tca> open a terminal and type       blkid
[17:30] <charlie-tca> see what it says
[17:31] <blackmoth> sdb6 doesnt show in blkid
[17:31] <blackmoth> # swap was on /dev/sdb6 during installation
[17:31] <blackmoth> #UUID=94405326-29be-472d-8f6d-ac868695d733 none            swap    sw              0       0
[17:31] <charlie-tca> okay, then try ls /dev/disk/by-uuid
[17:31] <blackmoth> thats the original in the fstab before uncommenting it
[17:32] <charlie-tca> my mistake
[17:32] <charlie-tca> in terminal,       ls -lA /dev/disk/by-uuid
[17:32] <charlie-tca> will give all the drives by sd?? and uuid
[17:33] <blackmoth> yeah only three
[17:33] <blackmoth> but not for the sdb6
[17:34] <blackmoth> this is the output
[17:34] <blackmoth> 3b33ccb1-f758-4ebb-83ac-a76e79afa147  48A1499124D60B5D	b36d99ff-0980-446d-ac6e-b8337b7388e5
[17:34] <blackmoth> then the output of blkid is
[17:34] <blackmoth> /dev/sda4: LABEL="UniStorage" UUID="48A1499124D60B5D" TYPE="ntfs"
[17:34] <blackmoth> /dev/sda5: UUID="b36d99ff-0980-446d-ac6e-b8337b7388e5" TYPE="ext4"
[17:34] <blackmoth> /dev/sda7: UUID="3b33ccb1-f758-4ebb-83ac-a76e79afa147" TYPE="ext4"
[17:34] <blackmoth> sdb6 doesnt show up
[17:34] <charlie-tca> comment it out completely in /etc/fstab then
[17:35] <charlie-tca> It should work until the bug gets figured out
[17:35] <blackmoth> i tried already
[17:35] <charlie-tca> It seems maybe it did not even create the partition properly
[17:35] <blackmoth> i comment it out
[17:35] <blackmoth> then comment the /dev
[17:36] <blackmoth> but during swap on
[17:36] <blackmoth> swapon: cannot find the device for UUID=94405326-29be-472d-8f6d-ac868695d733
[17:37] <blackmoth> also during the installation i saw a command to wipe out swap space for security reasons....is that normal?
[17:39] <blackmoth> charlie
[17:40] <blackmoth> sdb6 shows up on fdisk -l
[17:41] <blackmoth> also during the installation i saw a command to wipe out swap space for security reasons....is that normal?
[17:43] <charlie-tca> swap-on won't find it because it can't find the partition
[17:43] <charlie-tca> yes, is normal to see it wipe space
[17:43] <blackmoth> ah ok
[17:43] <charlie-tca> sdb6 might show up, but it still isn't formatted right to be used
[17:44] <blackmoth> hmm so can i run a live usb and format it again with gparted?
[17:44] <charlie-tca> You can try, I don't know if it will work, though.
[17:45] <blackmoth> hmm let me try
[17:45] <blackmoth> brb
[17:54] <blackmoth> charlie
[17:54] <blackmoth> it worked
[17:54] <blackmoth> i think i found out the problem
[17:54] <charlie-tca> Great!
[17:54] <charlie-tca> problem is???
[17:55] <blackmoth> when i checked gparted the 4gb i assigned to swap reduce to 3.9gb and the format is unknown
[17:55] <blackmoth> the installation somewhat corrupted the swap file
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Yes, it messes up the formatting for reasons yet to determined.
[17:56] <blackmoth> it writes something on the swap file? since it used up about 100mb kish
[17:56] <charlie-tca> That's why they need those logs. They can't find why it is doing that
[17:57] <blackmoth> can i send you the log here?
[17:57] <charlie-tca> Of course, if it happened to everybody, it would be so much easier
[17:57] <charlie-tca> no
[17:57] <blackmoth> ill try to upload it
[17:57] <blackmoth> seems internet is doing fine
[17:57] <charlie-tca> every partition has a small amount used to set itself up
[17:58] <charlie-tca> Great! I already notified the developer that you are adding the logs.
[17:58] <brunomedeiros> Hi all
[17:58] <blackmoth> ok
[17:58] <brunomedeiros> First time here on this channel!
[17:59] <charlie-tca> !hi | brunomedeiros
[18:00] <charlie-tca> Welcome to our little support channel
[18:00] <Boscop> charlie-tca: in grub when I run 'grub> find /boot/grub/stage1' I get this error 'Error 15: File not found'.
[18:01] <Boscop> charlie-tca: I'm following this guide: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=224351
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Boscop: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#File_Not_Found_.28Error_15.29
[18:02] <charlie-tca> explains how to fix that
[18:04] <Boscop> I got this error _while_ reinstalling grub from a live cd.
[18:04] <Boscop> (in fact, I haven't been able to reinstall it yet, due to this error)
[18:04] <Boscop> so how will reinstalling from a live cd fix this?
[18:06] <blackmoth> charlie: done upload the syslog
[18:06] <charlie-tca> Boscop: the guide you are following is from 2006. It will not work for grub2
[18:07] <charlie-tca> Please use https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Reinstalling_GRUB2 for anything after 2009
[18:07] <Boscop> charlie-tca: also, when running upgrade-from-grub-legacy I get '/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot/grub'
[18:07] <charlie-tca> Boscop: the guide you are following is from 2006. It will not work for grub2
[18:07] <charlie-tca> You are using an obsolete guide, which references files not use by grub2
[18:08] <charlie-tca> blackmoth: thank you
[18:08] <blackmoth> no problem.. hope this bug will be fix soon
[18:08] <charlie-tca> Me too.
[18:10] <blackmoth> ok have to go now...ill check the bug section for an update tomorrow...bye
[18:10] <blackmoth> thank you for your time
[18:14] <charlie-tca> you are welcome
[18:23] <Boscop> charlie-tca: ok, I reinstalled grub now using boot-repair but it doesn't seem to modify boot.ini
[22:31] <salis> i ahve problem with aircrakc-ng suite when i use aireplay i get a message tha card is on difrent channel than ap is.. some1 here have an idia?
[22:42] <rsyring> Is there a Places panel item in 11.04?
[22:43] <rsyring> I mean, I don't see it in the list, do I have to do something special to get it to show up?
[22:55] <GridCube> rsyring, there is a kind of places but it works different
[22:56] <GridCube> you can, though, make one manually


[02:16] <StevenK> wgrant: I thought bug supervisor turned up on IProduct:+edit ?
[02:17] <StevenK> Ah
[02:17] <StevenK> Configure bug tracker
[02:17] <StevenK> IE, UI trainwreck
[03:11] <cjwatson> NCommander: but the trend in Launchpad itself is to start trying to split things out into microservices where possible, rather than embedding them all in a single giant webapp
[03:12] <cjwatson> (and for those to be affiliated to Launchpad in the necessary ways)
[03:52] <NCommander> cjwatson: er, wasn't one of the motivations of writing launchpad in the first place to prevent having a million microapps (i.e., bugzilla+dak)
[03:53] <NCommander> I don't personally care one way or another, but having centralized one-stop place for packages/images/builds/archives makes a lot of sense to me
[03:55] <lifeless> what did I miss ?
[03:57] <wgrant> 13:10:00 -!- lifeless<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[03:57] <wgrant> 13:11:24 < cjwatson> NCommander: but the trend in Launchpad itself is to start trying to split things out into microservices where possible, rather than embedding them all in a single giant webapp
[03:57] <wgrant> 13:12:18 < cjwatson> (and for those to be affiliated to Launchpad in the necessary ways)
[03:57] <wgrant> 13:23:44 -!- lifeless<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #launchpad-dev
[04:02] <lifeless> wgrant: thanks
[04:03] <lifeless> NCommander: separate codebase != separate UI || siloed behaviour
[04:03] <lifeless> NCommander: LP set out to create an integrated set of behaviours
[04:03] <NCommander> Which it succeeded at
[04:03] <lifeless> NCommander: separate services provide natural scaling and HA boundaries, assuming the services are well defined
[04:03] <lifeless> NCommander: bugzilla vs dak is not the same as microservices making up the whole product.
[04:04] <NCommander> Fair enough
[04:04] <lifeless> NCommander: for an example of another microservice approach, look at s3 + ec2 + cloudscaling etc
[04:04] <NCommander> THat being said, I stilla rgue that ISO mastering would fall under Launchpad; image builds are already dependent on the LP service and this provides ways for flavors to control their own respins/etc.
[04:04] <lifeless> consistent feel, integrated management consoles and so on, but very focused facilities that are orthogonal
[04:05] <lifeless> I think iso mastering should move onto the regular buildds.
[04:05] <cjwatson> No.
[04:05] <cjwatson> The live filesystem component should move onto the regular buildds.
[04:05] <cjwatson> It doesn't make sense for the whole of ISO mastering to do so.
[04:06] <lifeless> cjwatson: whats the difference there, and why?
[04:06] <cjwatson> The line I'm drawing is the part that can be run architecture-independently, and that benefits from being on a machine with a full local mirror etc.
[04:07] <cjwatson> The live filesystem component is the part that must be run on a system of the target architecture.
[04:07] <cjwatson> And that certainly belongs on the buildds.
[04:07] <lifeless> cjwatson: you need to run the arch indep part one per arch though, right ?
[04:08] <cjwatson> Yes, but there are useful economies of scale.
[04:08] <lifeless> cjwatson: from bandwidth access to the mirror ?
[04:08] <cjwatson> For example.
[04:09] <cjwatson> More like same filesystem, since some ISOs use hardlink trees.
[04:09] <lifeless> cjwatson: ah, interesting. I haven't climbed into that code.
[04:09] <lifeless> cjwatson: thanks.
[04:09] <cjwatson> Maybe the importance of this will change as more things move to live CDs, but I don't want that to entirely dominate the design.
[04:10] <lifeless> cjwatson: do you reuse the hardlink trees for things on different days ?
[04:10] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I understand the question.
[04:10] <lifeless> IIUC you build N > 1 ISOs using hardlink trees for common content  ?
[04:11] <cjwatson> We reuse the mirror.  But hardlink trees are cheap to build so we just do that afresh for each image build.
[04:11] <lifeless> When you build the same targets the next day, do you build fresh hardlink trees, or evolve the prior one ?
[04:11] <cjwatson> The former, then.
[04:12] <lifeless> anyhow. I'm actually arguing for horizontal scalability and automated from-scratch provisioning of the build system, rather than 'use the buildds' per se.
[04:12] <lifeless> closer to stateless etc etc etc
[04:13] <cjwatson> In terms of scaling, building live filesystems massively dominates; we're a long way off the point where the central system has any trouble keeping up with the extra bits and pieces of ISO mastering it does at the rate that separate builders can deliver live filesystems.
[04:14] <cjwatson> Obviously that changes at some point horizontally but it's quite some distance away.
[04:14] <lifeless> kk
[04:16] <NCommander> I was more considering the possibility of removing squashfs builds are a seperate step and merely master an entire ISO in a single go on a buildd
[04:16] <NCommander> */2 cents*
[04:16] <cjwatson> I know you were, but I don't think that's desirable at this point.
[04:17] <lifeless> cjwatson: what downside do you see?
[04:17] <cjwatson> See above.
[04:18] <cjwatson> In any case I don't think this should even need to be considered for livefs-in-LP work.
[04:18] <cjwatson> As far as that's concerned, the build job should be calling BuildLiveCD or some equivalent.
[04:18] <lifeless> cjwatson: above you discussed efficiencies, but unless you hit a bottleneck that doesn't translate to a specific or even necessary downside.
[04:18] <cjwatson> What it outputs is the business of the job and the consumer, not of LP.
[04:18] <cjwatson> lifeless: The downside is that we should be moving to livefs-in-LP without having to refactor the entire cdimage build system along the way.
[04:19] <cjwatson> And it's actually really quite a considerable amount of code to move around.
[04:19] <lifeless> cjwatson: so, two separate [potential] migrations, rather than one that moves + rearranges? If so I concur.
[04:20]  * NCommander agrees with that, as moving the squashfs building is considerably less diserpative ATM
[04:20] <NCommander> and as I said in the beginning, long-term [potential] goal
[04:21] <lifeless> cjwatson: also, wth are you awake?
[04:22] <cjwatson> *You're* asking me that? :-)
[04:22]  * NCommander is dealing with a rather mysterious issue that the buildd complains UNKNOWNSUM
[04:22] <NCommander> WOrks with a precise chroot sha1sum, breaks with a lucid one
[04:22] <cjwatson> (Random insomnia)
[04:23] <NCommander> grep "No URL" -r *
[04:23] <NCommander> er
[04:24] <NCommander> oh
[04:24] <NCommander> the only reason my trigger code worked was the precise chroot was cached in the filecache for the buildd
[04:28] <NCommander> cjwatson: do we have any images that still require livecd.sh? (I have a handler that calls that, live-build, and ubuntu-defaults-image)
[04:50] <StevenK> lifeless: I see your iwl is as stable as ever.
[04:53] <lifeless> StevenK: I'm on ethernet
[04:53] <lifeless> StevenK: Hotel ethernet.
[04:53] <StevenK> That's as stable as iwl
[04:54] <StevenK> wgrant: What sort of cruft is sinzui talking about it bug 1036189?
[05:02] <wgrant> StevenK: eg. if I set my project to only use Proprietary bugs and branches, and I change all the Private and Private Security artifacts to Proprietary, there's no need to keep Private and Private Security around
[05:02] <wgrant> The APs and APGs can be deleted.
[05:04] <StevenK> That sounds more like a job Job rather than a garbo
[05:05] <wgrant> StevenK: We'd have to trigger it on every transitionToInformationType
[05:05] <wgrant> So no
[05:06] <StevenK> Right
[05:06] <StevenK> wgrant: So if it's a garbo what do I search on?
[05:06] <wgrant> StevenK: Hm?
[05:08] <StevenK> wgrant: So if I want to pick products that need AP{,G}s deleted, how do I do it?
[05:09] <wgrant> StevenK: Find APs that are forbidden, and then find the subset that are unused
[05:10] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, so find APs that do not make sense given what the product is set up for.
[05:11] <wgrant> StevenK: Right
[05:25] <lifeless> wgrant: StevenK: and you won't let folk file bugs that noone-can-see?
[05:26] <wgrant> lifeless: We will, but the project owner would have to explicitly revoke the permission
[05:26] <wgrant> The default is always that the owner can see each type
[05:26] <lifeless> note too the race conditions at the time of revoking
[05:26] <wgrant> (and the owner gets a warning on +sharing if they do that)
[05:26] <wgrant> Oh?
[05:27] <lifeless> new bug of the type the permission is being revoked for
[05:27] <lifeless> owner may think there are none, but \/ races
[05:27] <wgrant> We don't prevent filing a bug that nobody can see
[05:27] <lifeless> sure
[05:27] <wgrant> If the project owner wants to do stupid things, we let them do stupid things, but they can easily recover
[05:27] <lifeless> saying that doesn't mean humans won't assume ...
[05:28] <lifeless> same race exists for setting the project to only proprietary, if you do stuff inline, of course.
[05:29] <wgrant> Changing the allowed types (eg. setting the sharing policy to Proprietary only) doesn't affect existing artifacts.
[05:29] <wgrant> But it does stop you from making new ones of the illegal types
[05:29] <lifeless> cool
[05:29]  * StevenK tries to cook a query
[05:40] <StevenK> wgrant: So I'm looking for projects where bug_sharing_policy or branch_sharing_policy isn't PUBLIC and they have APs for PRIVATESECURITY and USERDATA. I'm guessing it's a little more complicated, but it seems those are the only policies that are excluded.
[05:52] <StevenK> wgrant: Right?
[05:53] <wgrant> StevenK: If you look near the top of lib/lp/code/model/branchnamespace.py you'll need the dict of allowed types
[05:53] <wgrant> s/need/see/
[05:54] <StevenK> Does that also follow through for bugs?
[05:54] <wgrant> There's a similar one for bugs in a branch that I haven't landed yet. It's basically identical.
[05:56] <wgrant> wallyworld_: In the sharing_policy = PUBLIC garbo branch, would it be better to check that the project is set to public already (ie. not private_bugs and not exists branchvisibilitypolicy) rather than checking for the lack of a commercial subscription? If we're landing this now, it'll also mean that commercial project setup changes now.
[05:56] <wgrant> I'd suggest we defer landing it until new projects are being set up using sharing_policy
[05:57] <wallyworld_> wgrant: i'm not sure why commercial project setup would change? the job only updates non commercial projects
[05:58] <wallyworld_> we discussed the need to do this in the call - we wanted to ensure that the many projects were migrated for people before beta
[05:58] <wgrant> wallyworld_: If a project happens to accidentally be created non-commercial and only made commercial later, the old commercial setup procedure will appear to work, but do nothing
[05:59] <wgrant> private_bugs will be set, but bugs will be public
[05:59] <wallyworld_> sure, but if a project is made commercial, it would need to have it's sharing policy set at the same time
[06:00] <wgrant> Right, so we'd need to advise the people who do commercial setup (probably just czajkowski and us nowadays?) to unset sharing policies
[06:00] <wgrant> That may be acceptable, but we need to say that first :)
[06:00] <wallyworld_> yes, curtis is all over it
[06:01] <wgrant> Sounds good, then. But we do need to check that the project is actually configured to be public, not just that it has no commercial subscription.
[06:01] <wgrant> Or we may be in for a nasty surprise if anything's misconfigured.
[06:01] <wgrant> Since commercial admins can set private_bugs and BVPs without a commercial sub
[06:01] <wgrant> So who knows what madness lies out there today...
[06:01] <wallyworld_> by "public" you mean check the licence?
[06:01] <czajkowski> wgrant: morning
[06:02] <spm> heya czajkowski
[06:02] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Needs to have private_bugs = false, and there must be no BranchVisibilityPolicies at all
[06:02] <wgrant> czajkowski: Hi
[06:02] <spm> gentles all; is it still possible for people and/or teams to have name aliases? I can't seem to find any such UI modification for same any more? possibly it was only for projects??
[06:02] <wallyworld_> wgrant: so theoretically only commercial projects can have private_bugs = true right?
[06:02] <wgrant> spm: People/teams never could
[06:02] <wgrant> spm: Projects can
[06:02] <czajkowski> I believe myself and mrevell will be talking to people who have commercial projects next weeek and going over the new setup with them once myself and mrevell know more and know fully about the set up
[06:03] <spm> wgrant: right. ta. I misrecall. thanks mon
[06:03] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Sort of
[06:03] <wgrant> wallyworld_: "theoretically" in that "in an ideal world, there's no reason for it to be any other way"
[06:03] <wgrant> wallyworld_: But it's by no means enforced or even suggested anywhere in LP that that should be the case
[06:03] <wgrant> As a commercial admin, I can go over to Random Open Source Project and set private_bugs and make all branches private only to canonical.
[06:04] <wgrant> In the old model
[06:04] <wallyworld_> and that would be a mistae, no?
[06:04] <wgrant> By policy, yes.
[06:04] <wgrant> But it will work absolutely fine.
[06:05] <wgrant> And LP won't warn you that you've done something that doesn't make sense.
[06:05] <wgrant> And isn't meant to be supported.
[06:05] <wallyworld_> so if it's not supported then the garbo job can do what makes sense, or?
[06:06] <wgrant> wallyworld_: It's not supported, but it may well exist and if it does then the current garbo algorithm will cause private stuff to become public.
[06:06] <wallyworld_> "unsupported" private stuff
[06:06] <wgrant> s/it may well exist/there is no reason it wouldn't exist/
[06:06] <wgrant> Sure
[06:07] <wgrant> But someone making a silent misconfiguration when touching privacy is not a valid reason to make all their stuff public quietly :)
[06:07] <wallyworld_> ie if people don't have a commercial subscription, can they reasonably expect their stuff to be private?
[06:08] <wgrant> wallyworld_: If they set private_bugs to true and created private BVPs and LP didn't complain and it worked for 5 years, then yes.
[06:08] <wallyworld_> how would they set private bugs to true? i thought only an admin could do that?
[06:08] <wgrant> wallyworld_: We have admins all over the company
[06:08] <wgrant> (commercial admins, not just full admins)
[06:09] <wgrant> OEM, HWE, and even non-Canonical groups like Linaro have commercial admins
[06:09] <wgrant> LP doesn't make the supposed rules clear, so assuming that they've been followed is... not exactly reliable.
[06:10] <wallyworld_> hmmm, ok. i initially saw the issue as "freeloaders" no longer getting something they hadn't paid for
[06:10] <wgrant> Well, there's that side of the issue.
[06:10] <wgrant> But that's relatively minor
[06:11] <wgrant> compared to the risk of making confidential information public without telling anyone
[06:11] <wallyworld_> i can do a followup branch then to tighten the rules for what projects are migrated. custis seemed happy with the current approach when we discussed it during the call
[06:14] <wgrant> launchpad_dogfood=# SELECT COUNT(*) FROM product WHERE private_bugs AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM commercialsubscription WHERE commercialsubscription.product = product.id);
[06:14] <wgrant>  count
[06:14] <wgrant> -------
[06:14] <wgrant>      8
[06:14] <wgrant> (1 row)
[06:14] <wgrant> That branch is dangerous :)
[06:14] <wallyworld_> fsvo
[06:15] <wgrant> They're all canonical/linaro projects
[06:15] <wgrant> So by definition not freeloaders
[06:15] <wallyworld_> do i really need to check bvp or is private_bugs sufficient?
[06:17] <StevenK> wgrant: I've been staring at this query for like ten minutes and still doesn't make sense. I know what I'm trying to say, but not how to say it. :-(
[06:18] <czajkowski> welcome to my world StevenK :)
[06:19] <wgrant> StevenK, wallyworld_: gimme a sec
[06:20] <wgrant> wallyworld_: There are 30 projects with private, private only, or forbidden BVPs and no commercial subscription
[06:20] <StevenK> czajkowski: Haha
[06:20] <wallyworld_> wgrant: ok, i'll add in bvp checks also
[06:20] <czajkowski> bvp?
[06:20] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Thanks.
[06:21] <wgrant> wallyworld_: I didn't think there'd be this many, tbh :/
[06:21] <wallyworld_> branch visibility policy
[06:21] <czajkowski> ahh yes *headdesk*
[06:21] <wallyworld_> czajkowski: they're going away soon so don't even bother to try and understand them :-)
[06:36] <wallyworld_> wgrant: i'd be ok to ignore bvp = public?
[06:37] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Yeah, projects that have become public afterwards can't have their BVPs removed, so they're just all set to public
[06:37] <wgrant> wallyworld_: A project behaves as if it has no BVPs if it only has public BVPs
[06:37] <wallyworld_> ok, so bvp > 1 in my query
[06:37] <wgrant> A single Private, Private Only or Forbidden rule means it's not public
[06:37] <wallyworld_> yep
[06:58] <czajkowski> have folks come acorss liciencing choices/discussions  before on LP https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1037685
[07:03] <StevenK> wgrant: So no help for me? :-(
[07:04] <wgrant> StevenK: Sorry, what do you have so far?
[07:05] <StevenK> wgrant: Roughly 'store.find(Product).find(Product, ' because I've trying to figure out how the next bit should look. :-(
[07:06] <StevenK> czajkowski: So project licensing we don't really tend to care about -- we really only care is it an open source license or not?
[07:07] <wgrant> StevenK: So, one thing you could do is batch through the products, grab their APs, compare them to the set
[07:07] <czajkowski> StevenK: cant really reply with I don't care now can I :0
[07:07] <czajkowski> :)
[07:07] <wgrant> StevenK: It's only going to be garbo-daily, so it doesn't need to be a stunningly fast single query
[07:08] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, I figured that bit
[07:13] <wgrant> StevenK: Then you compare the information types from the access policies with the ones allowed by *_sharing_policy. Any that don't match the sharing_policy, you query accesspolicyartifact to see if there are any artifacts using it. If not, you delete the APG and AP
[07:13] <wgrant> s/APG/APGs/
[07:15] <StevenK> wgrant: Yes, I understand that bit, what I've been stuck on is how to tackle the query that finds if there is work to do.
[07:16] <wgrant> I'd just iterate through all the products
[07:16] <wgrant> There's not very many in the scheme of things.
[07:16] <wgrant> And we only need to do this dailyish
[07:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: no, livecd.sh is historical interest only.
[07:48] <NCommander> cjwatson: well, we still use it for old images, and generally, I think we want the capability to respin those until they leave support, no?
[07:56] <adeuring> good morning
[08:13] <cjwatson> NCommander: so the way it works is that we always build live images in a chroot of the relevant series, with the relevant series' livecd-rootfs installed
[08:13] <cjwatson> NCommander: the only piece that's series-independent is BuildLiveCD
[08:13] <cjwatson> NCommander: if at all possible I'd strongly recommend that you simply call BuildLiveCD
[08:13] <NCommander> I'm aware. I'm re-implementing BuildLiveCD into the buildd slave.
[08:14] <cjwatson> Is there a reason to do that rather than calling it?
[08:14] <cjwatson> It has quite a bit of distro-specific logic.
[08:14] <NCommander> BuildLIveCD can't be series-independent because the chroots are always presisene unles syou want to pull it in from a PPA or other location
[08:15] <cjwatson> BuildLiveCD isn't stored in the chroot.
[08:15] <NCommander> In addition, there isn't a lot of distro-specific logic, and by having the interface one level up, its easier to pass new options to build images or other engineering fun
[08:15] <NCommander> cjwatson: so then we want to install it on every buildd by hand? (or make it part of launchpad-buildd?
[08:15] <cjwatson> It's installed on every buildd by hand at the moment.
[08:16] <cjwatson> I guess I can see the logic in reimplementing it.  If you do, you need to keep all the things it does, including, yes, livecd.sh.
[08:18] <cjwatson> Damn, now that bizarre failure I was seeing in EC2 has infected buildbot.
[08:22] <wgrant> cjwatson: Which?
[08:22] <wgrant> I don't see one
[08:23] <cjwatson> lp.soyuz.browser.tests.test_archive_webservice.TestArchiveWebservice.test_getAllPermissions_constant_query_count
[08:23] <cjwatson> on db-devel
[08:23] <wgrant> cjwatson: It's odd that it's doing both cookie-based sessions and OAuth
[08:24] <wgrant> But what's the extra query?
[08:24] <cjwatson> Maybe; but the test is that there are the same number of queries for one perm vs. two.
[08:24] <cjwatson> Trying to reproduce locally at the moment.
[08:24] <wgrant> I tend to just decrease the limit in the test to get it to give me a dump
[08:25] <cjwatson> Yeah.
[08:25] <wgrant> Then compare to the buildbot failure, and fail to work out what has changed :)
[08:25] <cjwatson> I'm mostly waiting for my beard to grow while make runs, at the moment.
[08:25] <wgrant> Heh
[08:25] <wgrant> make compile is pretty fast
[08:26] <wgrant> and usually sufficient for non-launchpadlib tests
[08:26] <cjwatson> This is a launchpadlib test.
[08:26] <wgrant> launchpadlib, or the test suite's webservice client thingy?
[08:27] <cjwatson> LaunchpadWebServiceCaller plus launchpadlib_for, apparently.  I was slotting into the existing TestArchiveWebservice.
[08:27] <wgrant> Ah
[08:27] <cjwatson> But I specifically wanted to ensure there was no late evaluation hidden in lazr.restful.
[08:27] <wgrant> WebServiceCaller doesn't need WADL, launchpadlib_for does
[08:27] <wgrant> Right
[08:29] <cjwatson> It must be at least slightly random, because my second attempt to get uefi-ppa-no-unapproved through EC2 succeeded.
[08:31] <wgrant> cjwatson: Right, this sort of thing often depends on whether you're the first webservice test in the process or not
[08:31] <wgrant> Oh
[08:32] <wgrant> This is probably complaining there's one too few queries.
[08:32]  * wgrant counts..
[08:32] <wgrant> No, one too many :(
[08:32] <wgrant> There goes the session secret theory
[08:34] <cjwatson> Mm, it's expected != other.
[08:38] <cjwatson> Oh.  If I put another list(self.main_archive.getAllPermissions()) at the start of the test, that triggers the failure.  So that suggests it's something a bit like what you're suggesting.
[08:39] <cjwatson> Also, is lp.buildmaster.tests.test_builder.TestSlave.test_status_after_build a known-flaky test?
[08:46] <cjwatson> The extra query in the second run is "134-2193@SQL-main-master SELECT Component.id, Component.name FROM Component WHERE Component.id = 1 LIMIT 1".  Oddly, it's listed at the start.  I wonder if it's a leftover from the first run somehow
[08:50] <cjwatson> Also odd because there's already a "134-138@SQL-main-master SELECT Component.id, Component.name FROM Component WHERE Component.id = 1 LIMIT 1" in the first run.
[09:04]  * cjwatson discovers record_two_runs, whose purpose seems to be to deal with this.
[09:10] <jml> we'd like to get https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/udd/binary-scanning-series/+merge/119248 landed, but I've forgotten how to do it for udd (tarmac? pqm? merge & hope?)
[09:45] <maxb> Plain old bzr
[09:46] <cjwatson> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/testfix-getallpermissions/+merge/120094
[09:46] <cjwatson> (or any other reviewer really, but I was talking to wgrant about this above)
[09:46] <wgrant> cjwatson: Looking
[09:47] <wgrant> Well, once the diff is there
[09:48] <wgrant> Ah, it won't be there for a while
[09:48] <wgrant> fdt
[09:48]  * wgrant looks at loggerhead
[09:50] <wgrant> cjwatson: r=me. I didn't know about that nice helper.
[09:50] <cjwatson> nor did I before grep happened to turn it up :)
[12:26] <bac> hi adeuring are you reviewing today?
[12:26] <adeuring> bac:sorry, forgot to change the toipic..
[12:27] <bac> adeuring, quite a few branches on +activereviews.  hope we can knock those out today.
[12:29] <adeuring> bac: ok, i'll start with "fix-.pocket-queue-admin-series"
[14:28]  * deryck switches work locations, back online shortly
[15:16] <cjwatson> adeuring: Thanks for your review of fix-pocket-queue-admin-series.  While I don't object to making the change you mentioned for clarity's sake, you said that it was in LP's style guide, and I can't find it anywhere in https://dev.launchpad.net/PythonStyleGuide or in at least the first few linked pages I looked through.  Could you point me to what I missed?
[15:17] <adeuring> cjwatson: let me see (actually, I claimed that this rule exists, but I haven't looked at our style guide for longer time...)
[15:20] <adeuring> cjwatson: https://dev.launchpad.net/CodeReviewChecklist?highlight=%28elif%29
[15:20] <cjwatson> aha, thanks
[15:20] <adeuring> though that might be cruft...
[15:21] <adeuring> cjwatson: the idea idea of the rule is that it should be clear that all possible cases of the if/elif/elif... are covered -- just prevent "casual" errors
[15:22] <cjwatson> aye
[15:22] <cjwatson> I've put it back now
[15:34] <sinzui> jcsackett: do you have time to discuss the IBranchEditableAttributes interface. Project maintainers don't have permission to use change the attrs. This is a problem since the branch is shared with the project, and they cannot respond to cases where data is disclosed, or the branch owner is no longer associated with the project.
[15:35] <sinzui> jcsackett: I want you to read the interface before we talk because I was surprised by some of the attrs in it
[15:41] <jcsackett> sinzui: i'll put up the file now, and ping you in a few.
[15:44] <jcsackett> sinzui: short read. g+?
[15:45] <sinzui> yes
[15:45] <jcsackett> sending invite momentarily.
[18:57] <sinzui> bac: do you have time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/project-branch-permissions/+merge/120219
[20:19] <cjwatson> Is there some way to get my testfix from devel earlier merged over to db-devel so that its buildbot can start working again?
[20:21] <cjwatson> Actually, isn't buildbot-poll supposed to do that?
[20:37] <wgrant> cjwatson: buildbot-poll will do it if the db-devel builder isn't in proper testfix mode
[21:23] <lifeless> benji: added
[21:32] <benji> lifeless: thanks
[22:36] <cjwatson> wgrant: I fear it may be in testfix mode, though
[22:36] <cjwatson> So does it need somebody to merge manually?
[22:41] <wgrant> cjwatson: Not sure if codehosting's still up, but indeed.
[22:42] <wgrant> You can either merge the testfix branch, or just say the whole stable merge is a testfix.
[22:45] <cjwatson> wgrant: with bzr lp-land or something more arcane?
[22:47] <wgrant> cjwatson: I'd just pqm-submit stable directly
[22:48] <wgrant> bzr pqm-submit -m '[testfix][r=foo] Merge db-stable rWHATEVER' --public-location=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/stable --submit-branch=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/db-devel
[22:48] <wgrant> or so
[22:48] <cjwatson> ok, will have a look in a bit, modulo whatever bits of LP are still alive
[23:00] <cjwatson> wgrant: not being a reviewer, can I use r=wgrant?
[23:00] <wgrant> cjwatson: Be my guest
[23:09] <cjwatson> done
[23:10] <wgrant> Thanks.
[23:10]  * cjwatson slightly freaked out by glimpsing "bzr: ERROR: no such option: -0" in PQM output
[23:10] <wgrant> I thought I'd removed that check.
[23:10] <wgrant> Maybe not
[23:11] <wgrant> It's pointless and doesn't work any more, anyway
[23:14] <NCommander> cjwatson: ok, now that I slept on it. WHy do we want to keep BuildLiveCD? The API I have for Launchpad lets the client choosing the build choose the chroot and the series its building (by default, whatever series you choose to build will be built in said chroot aka; lucid build in lucid using livecd.sh, precise build in precise using live-buid (or ubuntu-default-image)
[23:14] <NCommander> Is there another piece of functionality I'm overlooking?
[23:14] <cjwatson> It may not be too outrageous to replace BuildLiveCD with something equivalent, indeed.
[23:15] <cjwatson> Now that I've thought about it, our process for modifying that involves RT.  Changing that to involve landing an LP branch might actually be an improvement.
[23:15] <cjwatson> Would be easier to see what's currently running.


[15:00] <alo21> hi everybody....
[15:00] <alo21> is there a way to have a single instance between a lens and its related program?
[19:28] <tgm4883> Saviq, with the in kernel IR support, is there a way to see if the machine sees the remote control button presses (and what it is reporting)?
[19:28] <tgm4883> similar to irw with LIRC


[17:03] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[19:37] <brobostigon> good evening p_masho
[19:44] <p_masho> hi


[00:27] <Impulse__> Evening y'all
[00:29] <Impulse__> anyone that can help me with a question?
[00:31] <Patrickdk> !ask
[00:31] <Patrickdk> so, no, I don't think anyone can
[00:31] <Impulse__> ow, okay then :-)
[00:33] <brrr> !patience
[00:33] <Impulse__> Eurhm, i'm looking for a web gui based interface for my server/ main functionality is to monitor my disks, add disks, copy files etc
[00:33] <Patrickdk> good luck on that
[00:33] <Patrickdk> !ebox
[00:34] <Patrickdk> forget the others
[00:34] <Patrickdk> is extreemly rare, if those work at all
[00:34] <Impulse__> is it that good? because i've read and tryed Webmin but not what i need
[00:35] <Patrickdk> !webmin
[00:36] <Impulse__> mhm... well, the problem with webmin was to add a new fysical disk, can it be done with zentyal without any prob or?
[00:36] <Patrickdk> I wouldn't know
[00:36] <Patrickdk> it's pretty simple to just add a disk, via cli
[00:36] <Patrickdk> no need for some web based program to do it for you
[00:38] <Impulse__> true, the other thing i need is a samba server so that my laptop can acces the files, most of it only 2 VM's and my xbmc need to acces the files. The prob i have is that i come from a windows server, so the disks are NTFS formated. Only 1 is new, so that i can copy everything to the new disk, and then format the old one
[08:45] <jonascj> Hi all. I am trying to rename my ethernet cards so they will have persistent meaningful names. I am trying to name them based on bus position. This is what I've done to get the bus positions and what my /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules looks like: http://paste.linuxassist.net/view/f0087a7e
[08:46] <jonascj> Done with inspiration from here: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/development/chapter07/network.html
[08:46] <jonascj> but upon reboot my nics are still not named "onboard" and "pci"
[08:46] <jonascj> What can cause the rules not to apply? The rules-file have the execute bit set...
[09:17] <henkjan> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2014-July/006934.html
[09:18] <henkjan> al those 3.13 issues :'(
[09:22] <cfhowlett> henkjan roll back to an earlier kernel ...
[09:23] <henkjan> cfhowlett: i installed newer kernels
[09:25] <cfhowlett> henkjan or that :)
[09:26] <henkjan> just amazing that 3.13 passed qualite assurance
[09:30] <lordievader> It's strange Trusty doesn't get 3.14, since that one got a longterm status now.
[09:34] <jonascj> Where should I expect to see udev log output?
[09:35] <jonascj> in /var/log/syslog or /var/log/dmesg?
[09:36] <jonascj> I have the level to debug in /etc/udev/udev.conf, rebuild initramfs (like udev.conf says I need to) with "update-initramfs -u", but upon reboot /var/log/syslog conatains not a single occurence of 'udev' and /var/log/dmesg only contains 'udev' four times (for renaming two nics). I would have expected more from debug log level
[09:46] <jonascj> hmm the log is apparently /var/log/udev :$
[12:54] <hxm> exists something like git but simpler?
[12:57] <Pici> err... there are a number of different version control systems out there.  git is pretty simple imo.
[12:59] <Chris_hubu> hxm, there is subversion too, but git is the most popular/democratized, you might want to learn how to use it, it's pretty powerful
[13:08] <gnuoy> stgraber,hi, I'm looking at merging  2.15-1 of nagios-nrpe from debian and I see we're carrying a patch to remove the use of urandom ( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/nagios-nrpe/utopic/view/head:/debian/patches/01_nodevrandom-and-docoptions.dpatch ). Do you happen to know why that is?
[13:11] <stgraber> gnuoy: nope
[13:12] <gnuoy> stgraber, ok, thanks
[13:21] <ashd> can someone tell my what re-creates ldap.conf file on reboot?
[13:28] <pmatulis> ashd: by default, nothing
[15:16] <gnuoy> rbasak, I've raised a bug with debian for the lack of vcs fields in the debian/control file for nagios-nrpe. I'm now looking at why we carry this patch to remove the use of urandom. I've found some discussion on the subject. The patch was introduced by the debian maintainers in response to Bug 333552 . Why it was removed again is a bit of a mystery, I see discussion on the subject for Bug 660585 but the conclusion seems to be a rejection of the re
[15:16] <gnuoy> quest to remove the patch. I'm not sure what I should do from here
[15:17] <rbasak> gnuoy: thank you for finding those! It seems to me that this change affects behaviour but no other interface to the user, so there wouldn't be any regression to the user (eg. break scripts) whatever we chose to do. Does this seem accurate to you?
[15:18] <gnuoy> rbasak, yes, thats my understanding, it only changes the way the seed is generated
[15:18] <rbasak> gnuoy: IMHO, for the issue itself, I don't think it's for a package maintainer to change the behaviour like this. The original bug should have been forwarded upstream.
[15:19] <gnuoy> that makes sense
[15:19] <gnuoy> that would suggest we should loose the patch then ?
[15:19] <rbasak> gnuoy: and I don't buy the /dev/random running out of entropy thing. There has been much news recently about packages that should use urandom; using /dev/random over /dev/urandom at any time apart from boot time is purely academic, AIUI.
[15:20] <rbasak> gnuoy: so yes - I'd do whatever Debian do here to minimize our maintenance burden and so that users are less confused about any difference in behaviour.
[15:20] <rbasak> gnuoy: best to document this rationale in the changelog message thoughl.
[15:21] <gnuoy> rbasak, absolutely. Thanks for the advice, that makes sense to me
[15:21] <rbasak> gnuoy: no problem. It may be that there's some case that consequently breaks because something new blocks for entropy, but if that happens we can deal with that when we have more data. Especially as we can make a change without impacting the user at all.
[15:22] <gnuoy> kk
[16:56] <blopxop> any idea how to run bash command ~/.profile with root privilege without giving the user full right to said command?
[17:00] <hallyn_> anyone hanging out here who is a part of openvswitch upstream?
[18:47] <yossarianuk> hi - is anyone aware what I need to do to get ipv4+ipv6 working in a KVM bridge ?
[18:49] <patdk-wk> absolutely nothing :)
[18:49] <yossarianuk> patdk-wk: i.e out the box (as long as you have ipv6 connection) it should be enabled ?
[18:49] <patdk-wk> yes
[18:49] <patdk-wk> even if you don't have an ipv6 connection
[18:50] <yossarianuk> i.e br0 should show the inet6 address with ifconfig , etc ?
[18:51] <yossarianuk> patdk-wk: thanks
[18:51] <patdk-wk> heh?
[18:51] <patdk-wk> br0?
[18:52] <bitfury> !info icinga
[18:52] <patdk-wk> only if your host machine uses ipv6, had nothing to do with the kvm bridge or the kvm guest
[19:23] <bitfury> hi, if I wanted to install a package from the universe repo how would I specify this with apt-get?
[19:24] <lordievader> bitfury: Is the universe repo enabled?
[19:25] <bitfury> yep
[19:25] <bitfury> reading through the apt-get manual, looks like I could just specify a package's version
[19:25] <bitfury> thinking that would yield the same result
[19:26] <lordievader> bitfury: sudo apt-get install <package-name>, or alternatively, if you want more info about the package: sudo apt-cache show <package-name>
[19:26] <bitfury> lordievader: wouldn't that download and install the one in main?
[19:26] <bitfury> I remember you could specify a repo to use
[19:27] <lordievader> bitfury: For as far as I know, packages can be in one repo only. What package are we talking about here?
[19:27] <bitfury> lordievader: icinga
[19:27] <lordievader> !info incinga
[19:27] <lordievader> !info icinga
[19:28] <lordievader> bitfury: That lives in universe, like you said. It is not in other repos.
[19:29] <bitfury> lordievader: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icinga/1.11.5-1
[19:29] <bitfury> that's universe as well no?
[19:32] <lordievader> bitfury: That is the source of the package. And there is mention of Utopic's Universe.
[19:35] <bitfury> lordievader: Ok got it. So If I add a maintainers PPA and do a apt-get install <package-name> it will get it from there?
[19:36] <lordievader> bitfury: If they have a newer version and equal priority is given to the repos, yes.
[19:36] <bitfury> that is if the package name is the same as in main
[19:38] <bitfury> lordievader: got it, thanks for clarifying
[19:38] <lordievader> bitfury: No problem ;)
[20:15] <bitfury> !info munin


[09:04] <ricotz> darkxst, hi
[09:08] <ricotz> darkxst, i am going to push cogl/clutter 1.16 to staging and do rebuilds of the 3.10 stack, and collect the pieces afterwards
[09:18] <darkxst> ricotz, sure, I already tested a bit on my ppa
[09:19] <darkxst> apart from rebuilds seems ok
[09:20] <darkxst> ricotz, btw, I have gnome-shell crashing everytime I unlock, you seen this? or perhaps it due to the 8 or so patches I reverted for upower
[09:20] <darkxst> ?
[09:25] <ricotz> darkxst, ok
[09:25] <ricotz> darkxst, yeah, could be related
[09:25] <ricotz> better get a trace of it
[09:33] <darkxst> ricotz, yeh, will do, ran out of time today though
[09:57] <RzR> hi
[09:58] <RzR> is there a 700MB iso somewhere ?
[11:07] <RzR> npm, hey i see famillar names here
[11:31] <ricotz> darkxst, don't worry -- also bump the mutter library package to "d" for 3.11
[13:11] <Anarch_> hello guys, can anybody help me ? i have Ubuntu 10.04 and 12.04, but i hate Unity and GNome3, i want have only gnome2 like 10.04 in 12.04, how can i do it ? thnx
[22:46] <sam113101> HELLO
[23:07] <renebarbosa> hi
[23:41] <sam113101> I find ubuntu gnome more stable than ubuntu unity, is that weird?
[23:42] <sam113101> I also find ubuntu gnome less buggy than fedora with gnome, is that weird?


[01:24] <amit> Hi. Would appreciate advice on method for reading ubuntu's mailing list (currently subscribed, but rather read them off a feed, so as to not burden my mail client)
[08:20] <new_kid> Hi, is there a channel for casual chat?
[15:13] <gr8audioguy> Good Morning folks! I am going batty with Natty in the networking area. Everything worked fine in 10.10 but now I can't see other computers at all, not even the Windows volume on my C drive. Personal File Sharing is "greyed out" in system settings -> network (says proper packages are not installed)  yet Samba is installed and (apparently) configured. Can anyone kindly point me in the right direction?
[16:10] <s-fox> Now do I kick hajour ;)
[16:10] <s-fox> Hehe
[16:10] <hajour> XD
[16:11] <hajour> its  quiet frustrating to have so many ideas and not can launch them because of read write problems and then to need a between person you see
[21:19] <Shadow__X> and twss enthusiasts
[22:28] <Chrispy> Im hoping that someone can help me, as the main channel is congested. I Am currently having ATI Driver problems on Ubuntu 11.04. Has anyone else had very very slow graphics support ?
[23:50] <s-fox> Watch put Rocket2DMn is here ;)
[23:50] <s-fox> oh dear, a typo....
[23:50] <s-fox> hummm
[23:54] <Rocket2DMn> lol hey s-fox
[23:55] <s-fox> :)
[23:55] <s-fox> how have you been?


[06:09] <parthm> hello. whats a good way to capture stdout/stderr in a bzr unittest. i have a unit test that prints ui.ui_factory.show_warning. i want to assertContainsRe that the output has this warning.
[06:47] <parthm> nevermind. found an example in tests\test_http.py
[06:49] <lifeless> parthm: uhm, don't do it ?
[06:49] <lifeless> parthm: capturing stdout/stderr is pretty evil and makes it very hard to debug things. Why do you want to do that ?
[06:50] <parthm> lifeless: i have a fix for bug #430785 which prints a warning in case clean-tree cannot delete a file.
[06:50] <parthm> ui.ui_factory.show_warning ... so i am writing a unit test to verify it.
[06:50] <lifeless> parthm: I don't see why that implies capturing stdout/stderr
[06:51] <parthm> lifeless: is there any other way of ensuring that the warning is being printed?
[06:51] <parthm> or generated.
[06:51] <lifeless> use a known api and confirm that the api is claled
[06:52] <lifeless> in this particular case, the test UI should accumulate the api calls made on it
[06:52] <lifeless> so you can just assert that show_warning was called
[06:52] <lifeless> also
[06:52] <lifeless>   """Show warning for errors seen by rmtree.
[06:52] <lifeless>  98        """
[06:52] <lifeless> one line for one-liners please
[06:53] <lifeless> """Show warning for errors seen by rmtree."""
[06:53] <parthm> lifeless: ah. good idea. so i can overrideAttr show_warning. i will do that.
[06:53] <lifeless> huh
[06:53] <lifeless> no
[06:53] <lifeless> there is a test specific UI
[06:54] <lifeless> it gathers things into strings
[06:54] <parthm> lifeless: is there any test case i can look at as an example?
[06:55] <lifeless> hmm, its changed, I could swear we used to have one
[06:56] <lifeless> anyhow, bzrlib.ui contains SilentUIFactory
[06:56] <lifeless> ah
[06:56] <lifeless> its in bzrlib.tests
[06:56] <lifeless> bzrlib.tests.TestUIFactory
[06:56] <lifeless> it needs a small tweak to have a show_warning
[06:57] <lifeless> but even without it
[06:57] <lifeless> def test_clean_tree_warning(self):
[06:58] <lifeless>     out = String()
[06:58]  * parthm greps for TestUIFactory usage
[06:59] <lifeless>     self.overrideAttr(ui, 'ui_factory', tests.TestUIFactory(stdout=out))
[06:59] <lifeless>     clean_tree(...)
[06:59] <lifeless>     self.assertContainsRe('needle', out.getvalue())
[06:59] <lifeless> # this should do for now, we should make it better and more structured though
[07:00] <parthm> lifeless: yes. thats the example i found in tests/test_http.py. i will implement this. i agree. confirming that the api is called would be nicer.
[07:01] <parthm> lifeless: thanks.
[07:01] <lifeless> parthm: ah, I thought you found something using apply_redirected
[07:02] <lifeless> which is really quite different :)
[07:02] <lifeless> becaues *that* does alter stdout/stderr/stdin its very hard to debug within it.
[07:02] <parthm> lifeless: :) ... no it was test_http. ... test_prompt_for_username
[07:06] <kyan> Is there any way to upload files to Launchpad using a web interface, as an alternative to a command-line interface? I'm new to Bazaar/version control software, and have been unable to learn, despite some struggling — it seems to require Mac OS 10.5 (I have 10.4). Thanks!
[07:06] <kyan> I looked at macports but it needs admin access.
[07:06] <kyan> I don't have it.
[07:07] <kyan> Admin access, that is.
[07:08] <kyan> This is one of many reasons I hate mac os: software is next to nonexistant for it.
[07:08] <kyan> :-p
[07:10] <lifeless> bai ?
[07:11] <lifeless> spiv: btw
[07:11] <lifeless> spiv: I wish there was a pypi operationswithcleanups BSD module. Just saying.
[10:17] <lifeless> spiv: http://twitter.com/rbtcollins/status/21218747637 is why
[16:57] <lvh> Hey
[16:58] <lvh> If I have questions about using bzr with VC (the version control system in emacs23); should I ask here or in #emacs?
[16:58] <marienz> I only lightly use that integration
[16:58] <lvh> I used to use DVC
[16:59] <lvh> Now I'm trying VC since it's supposed to be good
[16:59] <lvh> basically I made some changes; I was expecting C-u C-x v v to let me use a different branch
[16:59] <marienz> I haven't used dvc much
[16:59] <lvh> (currently on "trunk", I'd like to put these changes in a new branch)
[17:00] <marienz> I don't understand how that'd work (that sounds like it'd require VC knowing much more about how my branches are organized on-disk than it normally does)
[17:02] <lvh> I was expecting it to be really clever and understand how repositories work
[17:03] <lvh> So how are you supposed to branch from emacs
[17:05] <marienz> repositories can work however you want them to. I just use bzr commandline commands to branch
[17:06] <marienz> "branch" in my case frequently means "create a new branch in a no-trees repository emacs knows nothing about, and then switch the lightweight checkout I work in"
[17:06] <marienz> that's not really something I'm interested in teaching emacs how to do
[17:06] <lvh> But M-x term is so many keystrokes :-(
[17:06] <lvh> I'll try #emacs, if that doesn't help I'm moving back to DVC
[17:07] <marienz> I don't know enough about vc to know if this is something it is interested in doing for you
[18:08] <nhandler> I'm playing around with setting up a pre-commit bzr hook for a branch. It would simply run a single shell command. I saw the shell-hooks plugin, which looks like it would be better suited than writting a python plugin for the hook. I'm just having a problem figuring out a) where the plugin looks for the shell script (so I can use a relative path instead ofabsolute) and b) Where the shell script is actually run from
[20:40] <Noldorin> has anyone had any success using bzr-svn with codeplex?
[20:40] <Noldorin> doesn't seem to be working for me
[20:42] <jelmer> Noldorin: the codeplex svn server is broken
[20:42] <lvh> Hey
[20:42] <Noldorin> jelmer, ah i see.
[20:42] <lvh> So what's the reccomended emacs integration for bzr
[20:42] <jelmer> Noldorin: it returns inconsistent data
[20:43] <Noldorin> jelmer, have the codeplex admins been notified of thisw?
[20:43] <lvh> there's DVC, there's VC
[20:44] <jelmer> Noldorin: I don't know; I don't use any codeplex repositories but I've mentioned what the issue was to several people who ran into issues with codeplex.
[20:44] <Noldorin> right
[20:44] <Noldorin> i think i remember you telling me now some time ago actually!
[20:44] <Noldorin> ah well
[20:45] <lvh> there's BzrEmacs which is kind of old
[20:48] <Noldorin> jelmer, any idea what the status of bzr-tfs is like?
[21:11] <jelmer> lvh: Sorry, I'm not an emacs user. Perhaps there's some folks on the Bazaar mailing list that can help.
[21:11] <jelmer> Noldorin, what's bzr-tfs?
[21:13] <fullermd> Talisman For Soupmaking?
[21:13] <Noldorin> jelmer, https://launchpad.net/bzr-tfs
[21:15] <fullermd> Shucks.  I was looking forward to soup   :(
[21:22] <lvh> jelmer: Thanks, I'll give it a try
[21:23] <jelmer> Noldorin, ah, neat - I hadn't seen that yet
[21:25] <Noldorin> jelmer, indeed. unfortunately i can't get it to run here though...
[21:26] <Noldorin> needs some ntlm module
[21:27] <jelmer> Noldorin: perhaps ask the author and cc the bazaar list?
[22:10] <jelmer> the bzr-tfs plugin looks nice
[22:10] <jelmer> too bad I don't have a Microsoft Team Foundation Server to test with :-P
[22:16] <jelmer> Noldorin, it looks like you need to install the python-ntlm module
[22:19] <Noldorin> jelmer, codeplex provides free TFS repos :)
[22:20] <Noldorin> jelmer, also, i installed python-ntlm, but no lucky...
[22:21] <jelmer> Noldorin: Can you follow-up to the mailing list? The original author announced it there a month ago, he might be able to help.
[22:21] <Noldorin> jelmer, sure, will give that a go. cheers
[23:35] <lifeless> mgz: hey
[23:40] <mgz> hey lifeless
[23:40] <mgz> was hoping you'd be around
[23:40] <lifeless> indeedy
[23:43] <mgz> so, the basic idea which is a bit hard to see in the big diff
[23:44] <mgz> is that inside TestSuite.run running each TestCase is delegated to a teeny function that only returns a weakref
[23:45] <lifeless> ...
[23:45] <lifeless> (Why?)
[23:45] <mgz> because we need to drop the reference, and then check whether the case is in fact still alive
[23:45] <lifeless> theres a missing cause/assumption here
[23:45] <lifeless> I'm at sea
[23:46] <mgz> hm... I'll try another angle.
[23:46] <mgz> we want to deallocate test case instances after they run, and *check* they're gone
[23:46] <lifeless> also, lp:python-fixtures; new shiny for you
[23:46] <lifeless> mgz: why do we want to check that they are gone ?
[23:46] <mgz> because otherwise we get regressions.
[23:47] <lifeless> this seems like a very hard proposition
[23:47] <mgz> we've had hundreds of revs of the test suite being slow and flakey on my machine without the cause being very clear
[23:47] <lifeless> 'do not think of the elephant'
[23:47] <mgz> and... it's not that hard
[23:47] <lifeless> mgz: yes, agree we need a means to improve and debug this
[23:47] <lifeless> I'm just trying to make sure I get each step of the logic properly ;)
[23:48] <mgz> a weakref will return None when called, if the object it points at is gone
[23:48] <lifeless> so
[23:48] <mgz> if the case returned is None, all is fine, if it's still a test case, we complain
[23:48] <lifeless> this implies a few things
[23:48] <mgz> complaining means I can find cycles.
[23:48] <lifeless> a) knowing if a given thing *should* be gone
[23:48] <poolie> hello mgz, lifeless
[23:49] <mgz> hey poolie
[23:49] <lifeless> poolie: heya
[23:49] <mgz> I agree this is complicated and annoying.
[23:49] <lifeless> so, you could extend TestResult to permit querying 'are you still holding on to X'
[23:49] <mgz> But I think I can do most of the annoying bits without inflicting them on everyone else who just has 8GB of ram and doesn't care.
[23:49] <lifeless> if it says 'no', then a weakref to X should return None
[23:50] <mgz> which problem are we trying to solve here?
[23:50] <lifeless> mgz: sure, my goal is to help you do this
[23:50] <mgz> I can live with the test result holding failed tests, in general, that should be a small number.
[23:51] <mgz> the main issues are cycles (which is a judgment between avoiding them or running a gc collection after every test), and the decorators
[23:51] <lifeless> mgz: well, we want several things AIUI; actual cycles generated in the code should be obvious (like that stack one - meep); the test suite itself shouldn't create cycles [thus your detection logic]; the tests suite should run fast
[23:52] <mgz> I think those are achievable goals, the only thing being I've currently got "test not collected" but not any simple way of pointing out where the cycle is
[23:53] <lifeless> well, meliae can tell, I expect.
[23:53] <mgz> I wondered if it might, I've just not tried.
[23:53] <lifeless> so we could have an option to use it for folk that want to debug these things
[23:55] <mgz> it's much easier to see the problem when it's in code you've just written, so if I fix the remaining ones then make non-collection into some kind of test failure I think that's sustainable
[23:56] <lifeless> ok
[23:56] <mgz> if you've just written a test that closes over the test instance and pqm rejects it, I'd hope it wouldn't be hard to resolve.
[23:56] <lifeless> that works for me
[23:58] <mgz> so if you're okay with that general approach, I think the remaining possible problem areas are that I've taken a hammer to the TestDecorator classes, and the new unit test _ExpectedFailure
[23:59] <mgz> well, the first is if it's going to upset anything


[02:59] <cereal__> I have Ubuntu 12.04 installed on a laptop and desktop and trying to use the sync feature in the software center. Both systems are one a logged in to the same ubunt one account. when i click file sync between computers i dont see multiple computers.
[03:00] <infinity> cereal__: You want #ubuntu, this isn't a support channel.
[03:01] <cereal__> Sorry just noticed that i will try there - thanks.
[06:25] <dholbach> good morning
[06:26] <ritz> morning
[10:06] <dholbach> does anyone know if an update of tzdata is planned or anyone working on it?
[10:15] <dholbach> I'm asking because of bug 991156
[13:21] <stgraber> yay!
[13:24] <dholbach> yeeeeeeehaw
[13:24] <dholbach> great work everyone!
[13:26] <jbicha_> yay! I've been wanting to break stuff!
[13:27] <Laney> damn this test build
[13:27] <Laney> I wanted to be the first
[13:39] <tumbleweed> bdrung: distro-info-data can be synced to drop teh temporary delta
[13:39]  * tumbleweed gets the feeling I should just apply for core-dev and be done with it
[13:41]  * stgraber points tumbleweed towards https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess :P
[13:46] <dholbach> stgraber, haha :)
[13:54] <Laney> core-dev eh
[13:55] <tumbleweed> you sound supportive :)
[13:55] <xnox> `ubuntu-distro-info --devel' quantal; yet `pbuilder-dist quantal create' says 'Warning: Unknown distribution "quantal". Do you want to continue'
[13:55] <xnox> =(
[13:55] <tumbleweed> xnox: install teh latest distro-info-data
[13:57] <cjwatson> No, install latest debootstrap
[13:57] <cjwatson> There's one in backports for precise
[13:57] <cjwatson> or just  sudo ln -s gutsy /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/quantal
[13:57] <xnox> cjohnston: ;-)
[13:57] <tumbleweed> err, yeah, that too :)
[13:58]  * xnox my mirror is out-of date? I have nothing =)
[13:59]  * xnox nevermind upgrading debootstrap ;-)
[14:00] <bdrung> tumbleweed: synced
[14:23] <barry> xnox: welcome!  what's your lp id?
[14:23] <xnox> barry: dmitrij.ledkov
[14:23] <xnox> barry: hello barry =))) let the python fun begin!
[14:24] <barry> xnox: indeed!  http://tinyurl.com/7dsyywo  :)
[14:24] <tumbleweed> that's a non-trivial amount of fun to be had
[14:25] <xnox> barry: right after reviewing LVM2 merge (slangasek) & fixing gcc-4.7 FTBFS (doko)
[14:25] <xnox> barry: ;-)
[14:25]  * xnox will try to "multi-task" if that is possible.
[14:26] <barry> xnox: sounds like folks are already keeping you busy :)  no worries!
[14:27] <doko> barry, you are just too late ;-P
[14:27] <barry> doko: the curses of being westward
[14:27]  * xnox accepts biscuits as 'queue' prioritisation tokens.
[14:50] <ahasenack> hi, can someone upload/move these packages to updates? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/978884
[14:50] <ahasenack> I believe the sru process is finished, it has the tag "verification-done"
[15:13] <cjwatson> @pilot in
[15:13] <cjwatson> should try to squeeze a bit in before the end of the month :-/
[15:15] <xnox> cjwatson: Dear Pilot, how do I schedule myself to pilot sponsorship queue ? =)
[15:16] <cjwatson> xnox: talk to dholbach
[15:16] <xnox> ok.
[15:17] <dholbach> thanks cjwatson!
[15:22] <spotter> is this raid5 corruption bug in Ubuntu 12.04's kernel?
[15:22] <spotter> http://marc.info/?l=linux-raid&m=133576777720867&w=2
[15:22] <spotter> could be a major major data loss bug
[15:23] <cjwatson> #ubuntu-kernel is probably a better place to ask
[15:23] <mdeslaur> spotter: please file a bug and mention it in #ubuntu-kernel
[15:24] <spotter> ok
[15:25] <spotter> unsure its a bug, only know that I had a main disk failure, installed ubuntu 12.04 on a new disk, had issues so moved to debian squeeze, and then realized my raid5 was corrupted
[15:26] <spotter> mostly recovered though might have some corruption left over from shot in the dark attempts at recovering
[15:44] <cjwatson> jtaylor: You seemed to be on top of bug 986279, which now has another response
[16:02] <jtaylor> not response I wanted, now I need to do real work ;(
[16:09] <jcastro> slangasek: jasoncwarner_: jdstrand: You guys have things in your scheduling queue for UDS: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q/+settopics
[17:35] <cjohnston> slangasek: and jasoncwarner_ also on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/review/
[17:57] <slangasek> cjohnston: um.  is there a way to disallow using that interface for adding sessions on a particular track?
[17:58] <pkern> Hi.  Is it actually possible to sync from the Launchpad web interface instead of using requestsync?
[17:58] <slangasek> cjohnston: all of foundations' sessions should be done as blueprints; I've gone in and declined everything that was proposed there, but people shouldn't be submitting sessions there in the first place
[17:59] <micahg> pkern: syncpackage is the preferable way
[17:59] <slangasek> cjohnston: in fact, the submitter has re-proposed these as blueprints
[18:16] <cjohnston> slangasek: no there isnt a way to do that
[18:17] <iamfuzz> is there a standard mechanism for having a dir in /var/run created on boot or is this still the responsibility of the init script?
[18:17] <infinity> iamfuzz: The init script or the application itself.
[18:18] <iamfuzz> infinity, thx, just wanted to make sure there wasn't a standardized mechanism in place
[18:18] <infinity> If there is, I missed the memo too.
[18:18] <micahg> isn't /var/run deprecated now?
[18:18] <cjohnston> slangasek: if you get a moment, would you mind replying to my email please
[18:18] <iamfuzz> well, yea, it's /run now but symlinked
[18:18] <infinity> micahg: His same question (and the answer) applies just as well to /run. :P
[18:18] <slangasek> cjohnston: will do
[18:19] <cjohnston> ty
[18:30] <doko> apw, ogasawara: when will be 3,4 headers be available in precise?
[18:30] <doko> ehh, quantal
[18:31] <cjwatson> pkern: it's *possible* in the web interface, but we prefer people not to use it as it doesn't have Ubuntu policy applied such as prompting people for extra confirmation of any Ubuntu changes they're discarding
[18:31] <ogasawara> doko: am hoping for eod today, but tomorrow at the latest.  am waiting for some test builds to finish.
[18:32] <cjwatson> pkern: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-January/000923.html is most current practice
[18:35] <pkern> micahg, cjwatson: Thank you!
[18:39] <barry> kenvandine: you probably already saw this, but hopefully this correctly removes a dependency on mx.DateTime: https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/gwibber/bug-990145/+merge/103956
[18:41] <barry> kenvandine: btw, once we get rid of gwibber's dependency, we can drop python-egenix-mxdatetime and python-egenix-mxtools from the list of py3 ports required.  which is great because upstream isn't interested in a port any time soon :)
[18:48] <kenvandine> barry, awesome!
[18:50] <ahasenack> hi, can someone upload/move these packages to updates? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/978884
[18:50] <ahasenack> I believe the sru process is finished, it has the tag "verification-done"
[18:52] <infinity> ahasenack: Will poke.
[18:53] <ahasenack> infinity: thanks!
[18:58] <infinity> ahasenack: Done.
[18:59] <ahasenack> infinity: \o/
[19:25] <nessita> hello everyone! I was wondering if someone could help me understand this fraction of an update log http://paste.ubuntu.com/958246/ , where a user ended up without the package providing a SSO client UI. The message I'm puzzled about is:
[19:25] <nessita> ubuntuone-client:amd64 Recommends on ubuntu-sso-client-gui [ amd64 ] < none > ( none ) (>= 2.99.91) can't be satisfied!
[19:25] <hyperair> hmm debootstrap still doesn't know about quantal just yet
[19:26] <tumbleweed> hyperair: precise-backports
[19:27]  * barry loses to tumbleweed again
[19:27] <hyperair> tumbleweed: why precise-updates?
[19:27] <hyperair> er why not
[19:28] <tumbleweed> wasn't my call, but it looks like that's how its usually handled
[19:29] <hyperair> is it?
[19:29] <hyperair> i don't recall needing to install debootstrap from -backports previously
[19:29] <tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap
[19:30] <hyperair> aah, it looks like precise was included in debootstrap before oneiric's release
[19:30] <tumbleweed> yeah, we only knew quantal's name after the release candidates were being spun
[19:31] <hyperair> makes sense
[19:32] <broder> we haven't really been totally consistent about backporting vs. sruing for new release names
[19:33] <tumbleweed> given the way distro-info-data breaks, it has to be SRUed (we should find a way to degrade a little more gracefully)
[19:34] <tumbleweed> but other things like debootstrap tend to be a little more nice-to-have
[19:34] <tumbleweed> (anyone can ln -s gutsy quantal)
[19:40] <joshhunt>  i'm not sure if this is the right forum, but i have a question as to where ubuntu grabs the sources it uses for the qemu-kvm package
[19:41] <joshhunt> when i checkout v0.14.1 from the linux-kvm.org git repo some things do not seem to match up
[19:41] <joshhunt> when comparing to the corresponding ubuntu source package
[19:43] <jdstrand> jcastro: regarding scheduling> yes, mdeslaur added those today and I will be looking at it tomorrow
[20:00] <infinity> doko: openjdk on arm* seems sad?  See the antlr build failures in quantal.
[20:16] <cjwatson> @pilot out
[20:16] <cjwatson> oops, forgetful
[20:17] <Nafallo> cjwatson: you just don't like to stop working... do you? :-)
[20:19] <doko> infinity, any other failure?
[20:20] <infinity> doko: That's the only scary thing I've seen so far.
[20:25] <cjwatson> doko: We have approaching 9000 pending build records, I'm sure there'll be something for you :-)
[20:27] <doko> infinity, ahh, still defaults to jamvm
[20:27] <infinity> Well, there was llvm-2.x failing with gcc-4.7, but I intend to just drop pre-3.x llvm instead of fixing them.
[20:27] <doko> cjwatson, no, I just meant openjdk, leaving the remaing failures for the +1 team ;)
[20:27] <infinity> Shipping 4 versions is insanity anyway.
[20:28] <doko> infinity, go ahead
[20:28] <infinity> doko: Oh, oops. (re: jamvm)
[20:28] <infinity> doko: Quick fix?
[20:28] <doko> tomorrow
[20:28] <infinity> doko: I meant "will it be quick", not "oh god, fix it quickly". ;)
[20:28] <doko> just packaging
[20:28]  * infinity nods.
[20:29] <doko> I did hope to catch up with things like adminstrative stuff this week ...
[20:35] <cjwatson> barry: python-gnupg> in a rush, eh? :)
[20:37] <barry> cjwatson: well, a guy can hope, right?
[20:37] <barry> :)
[20:46] <jcastro> vanhoof: "topic-quantal-hwe-essential" isn't named right
[20:47]  * slangasek renames it to zachary-quinto-hwe-essential
[20:47] <jcastro> vanhoof: follow the crowd please! https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q
[20:48] <barry> slangasek: i think you have to wait for spockian squid or maybe vulcan vulture
[20:48] <Nafallo> jcastro: that doesn't mean Ubuntu will change from unity to gnome-shell, does it?
[20:48] <slangasek> :)
[20:51] <vanhoof> jcastro: thanks, sorted
[21:03] <soren> cjwatson, mdz, pitti, stgraber, kees: tb meeting?
[21:04] <xnox> While MoM is down, we can still use: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html which seems to be uptodate with unstable.
[21:05] <xnox> or http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/main.html for whezzy/quantal comparison.
[21:06] <tumbleweed> and merging by hand with UDD isn't too painful (although I have a script somewhere that automates most of it)
[21:08] <slangasek> "merging by hand with UDD"?  I would consider merging with UDD the opposite of by hand :)
[21:08] <tumbleweed> not in the days when you had to fight it tooth and nail :)
[21:09] <barry> i guess you have nails on your hand, but toothnails?
[21:17] <dupondje> If a -proposed package has been verified & working by multiple people
[21:17] <maxb> barry: Hi. What bzr version were you using for your "bzr branch ubuntu:precise/debootstrap precise" ?
[21:17] <dupondje> Should I subscribe somebody to get it in -updates or ?
[21:17] <cjwatson> dupondje: tag it verification-done and the SRU team will promote it to -updates after a mandatory seven-day waiting period
[21:17] <cjwatson> it'll show up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html - no need to subscribe anyone
[21:18] <barry> maxb: 2.5.0 (default in precise)
[21:18] <dupondje> aha its in the list already! thx cjwatson
[21:18] <maxb> barry: Hm. Same. And it works fine for me. Though I question why it had to download ~70Mb
[21:19] <barry> maxb: interesting.  let me try it again...
[21:19] <barry> maxb: same crash
[21:20] <maxb> oh, wait, I have the are-you-up-to-date checking turned off
[21:20] <xnox> email ubuntu-devel about ~lucas/merges.html; btw it does show UDD commands to use ;-)
[21:20] <barry> maxb: i'm sure it doesn't matter, but i'm branching into a shared-repo (nothing else in it tho)
[21:21] <micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+localpackagediffs as well
[21:21] <cjwatson> micahg: Please don't use that
[21:21] <micahg> even as a reference?
[21:22] <cjwatson> If you're careful to do so yourself, sure, but you didn't include any kind of caveats when you just recommended it to others
[21:22] <cjwatson> And it has no guards against overwriting Ubuntu changes
[21:22] <infinity> I use it to find packages I hold TILM on.
[21:22] <micahg> me too :)
[21:22] <micahg> cjwatson: sorry, I keep forgetting to mention the caveats, will try to remember next time
[21:23] <maxb> barry: ugh. I think you've found a bug in the check-the-package-version-in-the-branch code
[21:23] <barry> maxb: awesome ;)
[21:27] <maxb> Workaround: launchpad.packaging_verbosity = off in bazaar.conf
[21:38] <broder> infinity: re: foundations-q-isa-scanning, would using lintian be an option here? it has a bunch of "go dig inside elf internals" tests already; this feels up its alley
[21:42] <barry> maxb: in the [DEFAULT] section?
[21:43] <barry> maxb: to answer my own question: yes :)
[22:06] <infinity> broder: If lintian can be made to do this, perhaps.
[22:07] <broder> i won't swear that it can, but i think it can. and i end up re-scanning the whole archive as a matter of course every 3 months or so
[22:07] <infinity> broder: It would certainly be valuable for Debian too (though, the baseline ISA per arch would be different for them in many cases)
[22:07] <broder> (that can also probably be accelerated if needed)