[06:32] <Kamion> there are no other beta-relevant issues I know of at present
[06:33] <mdz> me either
[06:33] <mdz> so if these fixes take, and there are no regressions, we'll be in good shape in the morning
[06:33] <Kamion> jpatrick: binaries accepted
[06:34] <jsgotangco> dholbach: bluetooth with gnome-phone-manager works fine on my side too (dapper) just to let you know (toshiba bluetooth chipset)
[06:34] <dholbach> jsgotangco: nice.
[06:35] <dholbach> jsgotangco: the only problem seems to be incoming notifications for SMS and I forwarded that upstream already
[06:35] <jsgotangco> we just don't have great phone stuff yet though
[06:35] <jpatrick> anyone know what might be causing this: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/669545 ?
[06:36] <dholbach> jsgotangco: there's some wxgtk stuff ammu, gammu, wammu or something - it's deemed to be quite good
[06:37] <ogra> mdz, looks like it was a one timer, probably caused by the upgrade i just did, usplash looks ok now on reboot
[06:39] <jsgotangco> wammu
[06:40] <jsgotangco> it doesnt seem to be packaged too
[06:40] <ogra> and even if it would... it would pull wxgtk to main if we'd ship it ... *shudder*
[06:41] <dholbach> jsgotangco: oh it is in debian, it seems, at least gammu
[06:41] <dholbach> ogra: nah, not for main
[06:41] <jsgotangco> nahh
[06:41] <dholbach> ogra: g-phone-m is not in main either
[06:41] <ogra> ah, fine then
[06:43] <thom> jsgotangco: as in sun's Fault Management Arch stuff? yes, it'd be hella useful - somewhat hard to for linux since you'd need a centralised way to manage and present the faults
[06:43] <HiddenWolf> ogra: please do, i'm going to get one. ;)
[06:44] <ogra> HiddenWolf, ah, i only know two other motorola users
[06:44] <ogra> i'll see to get it ready for dapper+1
[06:44] <HiddenWolf> I'm a fashion victem, can't help it. :)
[06:45] <jsgotangco> ogra: my wife has it too, the one in hot pink
[06:45] <ogra> i just needed a new mobile and it was cheap
[06:45] <HiddenWolf> "cheap"?
[06:45] <ogra> (and slim, you should have seen my former one)
[06:45] <HiddenWolf> ogra: I really don't want to know what you call expensive.
[06:45] <ogra> yes, 10 if you sign a new contract ...
[06:46] <ogra> which i needed anyway
[06:46] <HiddenWolf> *chuckle* ah. The phone itself is 700 euro.
[06:46] <ogra> i wouldnt have bought it ...
[06:46] <ogra> and thats totally offtopic for a pre beta day in #ubuntu-devel :)
[07:08] <janimo> seb128: if user has no Desktop directory gnome/nautilus creates it right?
[07:08] <janimo> for new users on first run
[07:08] <seb128> right
[07:09] <janimo> seb128: what's your plan re gaim2.0, still waiting on user feedback?
[07:09] <mdz> seb128: grr, you stole my lock on Testing/Current
[07:10] <seb128> mdz: ups sorry, I had the page opened for some minutes and didn't notice ...
[07:10] <seb128> janimo: no plan, when is due gaim2.0.0 ?
[07:10] <janimo> seb128: dunno, jus saw that you have put up beta2 packages a while ago for testing
[07:10] <janimo> I thought it was part of a plan :)
[07:11] <ogra> yes, the plan was to get test results ;)
[07:11] <dholbach> seb128: it seems that gaim2.0beta3 seems to close more bugs than it opens, no? :-p
[07:11] <seb128> janimo: beta3
[07:11] <janimo> the only thing people I know miss from 1.5 that's in 2.0 is login as invisible on yahoo
[07:11] <mdz> seb128: I broke down espresso into multiple cases; please correct if I didn't get it right (I assumed you erased)
[07:12] <seb128> mdz: updated, that was a custom partition install :)
[07:12] <Surak> seb128: bug 39002 is still there. Live fully updated. I subscribed to it and I will detail it better, ok?
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39002 in nautilus "Can't rename _SOME_ icons when they are on destkop." [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39002
[07:13] <seb128> Surak: ok
[07:15] <seb128> I'm away for dinner, bbl
[07:16] <Surak> ok
[07:22] <fabbione> meh who did break the wiki table?
[07:25] <fabbione> there
[07:27] <Kamion> mdz: should the table be updated for live 20060419?
[07:29] <Kamion> fabbione: you have updated ubuntu-server images now, BTW
[07:30] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[07:30] <Kamion> mdz: we need new install CD builds for (at least) the removal of dasher from desktop, right?
[07:30] <Kamion> and I guess the splashdown stuff
[07:30] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks. i was testing server netinstall in the meantime
[07:33] <fabbione> speaking of which i need to test ppc netinstall
[07:34] <janimo> Kamion, does espresso create a ~/Desktop dir explicitely?
[07:36] <Mithrandir> janimo: casper does.
[07:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we do, yes.
[07:36] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[07:36] <ogra> hmm, no wireless for me on the liveCd
[07:37] <ogra> i mean not without sudo dhclient eth1
[07:37] <Mithrandir> ogra: what does /e/n/i look like?
[07:38] <ogra> no eth1 in there
[07:38] <ogra> auto eth0
[07:38] <ogra> iface eth0 dhcp
[07:38] <ogra> and the usual lo line
[07:38] <ogra> s/line/lines/
[07:38] <Mithrandir> what kind of wifi interface?
[07:38] <ogra> orinoco silver
[07:38] <ogra> pcmcia
[07:39] <Mithrandir> oh, the initramfs doesn't do pcmcia.
[07:39] <ogra> i think seb mentioned the same
[07:39] <ogra> he had also to use dhclient to get it working with yesterdays live
[07:40] <ogra> thats an evil regression, should be fixed for release imho
[07:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, it's building
[07:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: just install nm and it'll dtrt. :-P
[07:41] <ogra> nope
[07:41] <ogra> it breaks because of missing dh_iconcache
[07:41] <ogra> i had NM on the Cd until tonight
[07:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: uh, network-manager breaks because of missing dh_iconcache?
[07:42] <ogra> yes, its icon isnt in the cache and you get a weird warning about "ressources not found"
[07:42] <ogra> very microsoftish
[07:43] <ogra> aside from that, NM doesnt work with orinoco :)
[07:55] <dilinger> is there a plan for the next ubuntu conference yet?
[07:55] <Tonio_> Kamion: reuploading a valid version of knetworkmanager... sorry for the errors on the packaging...
[07:55] <Burgwork> dilinger, yes, but nothing public yet
[07:55] <Kamion> Tonio_: no problem
[07:55] <fabbione> dilinger: sometimes after Dapper release, unknown location
[07:55] <dilinger> fabbione: not even a continent? :)
[07:56] <Tonio_> Kamion: that's what happen when I'm working just out of the bed without a coffee... :)
[07:56] <Burgwork> the rumours say Germany
[07:56] <dilinger> cool
[07:56] <ogra> then the rumors dont know about the soccer championship
[07:57] <Kamion> Burgwork: the rumours are outdated; Germany was the plan before we rescheduled Dapper, but now it clashes badly with the World Cup
[07:57] <Kamion> i.e. travel would be a nightmare
[07:57] <ogra> accomodation as well
[07:57] <fabbione> dilinger: EU
[07:58] <dholbach> . o O { "Ooooh, sorry Mark - can't be at the BoF tomorrow, I ... hum... um... can't make it." *run* }
[07:59] <janimo> can the soccer championship be delayed by 6 weeks?
[07:59] <ogra> janimo, man, why didnt you ask earlier
[07:59] <dilinger> fabbione: will there be mentos? ;p
[07:59] <dholbach> janimo: you could try and write a friendly email
[07:59] <fabbione> dilinger: i hope so :)
[07:59] <janimo> yeah I thought it may be too late
[07:59] <ogra> now its a bit late already
[07:59] <fabbione> dilinger: but i won't be there this time..
[08:00] <dilinger> fabbione: aw
[08:02] <ogra> huh ? why that ?
[08:07] <Burgwork> Kamion, bloody people and their bloody little balls ;)
[08:07] <Kamion> Kinnison: help, publishing/cron.daily is crashing
[08:08] <fabbione> ogra: too close to my wife release...
[08:08] <Kamion>   File "/srv/launchpad.net/codelines/soyuz-production/scripts/ftpmaster-tools/../../lib/canonical/archivepublisher/pool.py", line 62, in unpoolify
[08:08] <Kamion>     raise ValueError("Path %s is not in a valid pool form" % path)
[08:08] <ogra> fabbione, ah, yes, i already thought about the littel sparc admin
[08:08] <Kamion> path is empty
[08:08] <ogra> *little
[08:09] <fabbione> ogra: he is going to be my SAN manager ;)
[08:09] <ogra> hehe :)
[08:11] <dholbach> "Live CD install, erase disk (amd64)" looks good
[08:11] <Kinnison> Kamion: sorry, was reading a doc -> over there :-)
[08:11] <Kinnison> Kamion: give me a sec
[08:11] <Kamion> ah, cool, thanks
[08:12] <ogra> i'm just seeing espresso for the first time beyond the partitioning (where it crashed the last times i tried)
[08:12] <ogra> really impresso
[08:12] <Kamion> Kinnison: it crashed due to DNS problems (I think) while the DC link was down, and it hasn't managed to run to completion since
[08:12] <Kamion> ogra: thanks :)
[08:12] <Kinnison> Kamion: right
[08:12] <Kinnison> Kamion: it's not currently trying, yes?
[08:12] <Kamion> indeed not
[08:13] <Kinnison> try now
[08:13] <Kamion> running
[08:13] <Kamion> (output piped to mail lp_archive)
[08:14] <Kinnison> but not tee?
[08:14] <Kinnison> :-(
[08:14] <Kamion> can't tee and pipe to mail at the same time ...
[08:14] <Kamion> at least not tee to the terminal
[08:15] <Kamion> need a tee-to-subprocess
[08:17] <Kinnison> screen 0, foocommand | tee /tmp/magicfifo | mail
[08:17] <Kinnison> screen 1, cat /tmp/magicfifo
[08:17] <Kinnison> or similar
[08:17] <Kinnison> I forget whether that'd work
[08:17] <Kinnison> if not, tail -f is good
[08:17] <Kinnison> but anyway
[08:17] <Kinnison> it hasn't crashed yet?
[08:18] <Kamion> if I don't have a command to do it, I won't bother in practice :)
[08:18] <Kamion> not yet
[08:18] <Kamion> and it's in publish-distro.py
[08:18] <Kamion> what did you change?
[08:19] <Kinnison> I deleted the temporary file in the pool which it had been downloading into
[08:19] <Kinnison> I really ought to add a try: finally: to delete that if something goes wrong
[08:19] <Kamion> ah, heh
[08:19] <Kamion> noted for future reference
[08:20] <Kinnison> unsurprisingly, pool/.temp-download.Ita1sE was not a valid pool filename
[08:20] <elmo> Kinnison: or not right it in the pool ?
[08:20] <Kamion> instead of or as well as the try/finally, the publisher probably needs to handle temporary files still existing anyway, in case of a power cut
[08:21] <elmo> 'cos try/finally isn't going to catch me powering the machine off, f.e.
[08:21] <Kamion> (for example)
[08:21] <Kinnison> elmo: it's written into the top level of pool/ in case it's on a different filesystem
[08:21] <Kinnison> elmo: since rename() doesn't work well across FS boundaries
[08:21] <elmo> Kinnison: make your own tmp directory in /srv/launchpad.net then
[08:22] <doko> Kamion, mdz: still time for uploads for bug fixes for the beta? i.e. bug 39604
[08:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39604 in gnome-cups-manager "gnome-cups-add can take a long time to start up, with no user feedback" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39604
[08:22] <Manny_> hi
[08:22] <Kinnison> elmo: actually I think making the pool reader notice and clean up the temp files is a better plan
[08:22] <Manny_> azeem, what would you suggest, I want to create gnome-accessibility-foo (cf. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/MetaPackage)
[08:22] <Kamion> doko: at this stage, that bug doesn't seem beta-critical to me
[08:22] <elmo> Kinnison: keeping the archive that mirrors can see as consistent as possible is a good thing, but *shrug*
[08:23] <elmo> (s/mirrors/master mirrors/)
[08:23] <azeem> Manny_: hrm, -all might make sense, maybe repeat your question here for more input
[08:23] <Manny_> 20:20:15 <Manny_> I want to build multiple metapackages, a few specific ones and a meta-metapackage. I want to use meta-package-foo, meta-package-bar, meta-package-foobar. Now, should I name the meta metapackage meta-package-all or meta-package?
[08:23] <Kamion> it's minor - should definitely be fixed for final, but not worth waiting for
[08:26] <dholbach> Manny_: are there lots of things you'd let those meta packages depend?
[08:27] <dholbach> Manny_: and quite a bunch of a11y related package turned up in ubuntu-desktop lately
[08:28] <Kinnison> elmo: If I'm allowed to require at the code level that the misc and pool paths are on the same filesystem, I can make the temps in the misc path before rename()ing it
[08:29] <ogra> bah, the espresso installed system indeed uses the wrongly detected X resolution of the liveCD
[08:29] <ogra> how bad
[08:30] <Manny_> dholbach, I'm not sure, but the wiki page I referenced above lists some of them and I think this is VERY useful
[08:31] <fabbione> Kamion: i might come back later to test the new base-installer..
[08:31] <Manny_> I recently received an email from a disabled person who couldn't find a linux a11y live cd, having the packages will make the creation of the CD significantly easier
[08:31] <elmo> Kinnison: I've yet to split up anything in /srv across filesystems after 2 years and n machines, but I'm not really fussed, your way will work with random power cycles too and that's all I really care about
[08:31] <thom> uh, is it just me that thinks the new update-notifier icon looks remarkably like it wants me to reboot?
[08:31] <Kinnison> elmo: *nod*
[08:32] <ogra> thom, i heard that today in here already, so no :)
[08:32] <dholbach> thom: the world seems split about this icon, but the designer was notified about it being a bit generic.
[08:32] <thom> heh, fair enough
[08:33] <ogra> hmm, am i supposed to have drive icons on my desktop ?
[08:33] <ogra> especially PQSERVICE seems very strange
[08:34] <HiddenWolf> only if they're removable
[08:34] <dholbach> Manny_: maybe... yes.
[08:34] <dholbach> Manny_: gnome-orca and xcursor-themes are in universe - the rest is in main already.
[08:35] <Manny_> ah, ok
[08:36] <dholbach> Manny_: most of it should be pulled in by ubuntu-desktop already.
[08:36] <dholbach> Manny_: x-10 is not packaged yet.
[08:36] <dholbach> at least not to my knowledge
[08:36] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: btw, nautilus and gtk filechooser are showing the unmounted usb/flash ports and empty cdrom drives as places. Is that the expected behavior?
[08:40] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: i never wondered about that - i just checked the filechooser
[08:41] <ogra> looks like g-v-m or hal
[08:41] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: it makes sense to me, if you double click on them you can mount them
[08:41] <ogra> but they are automounted if you plug them in anyway
[08:42] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: I have a 7:1 hub in my monitor, all those empty things show, which is odd
[08:42] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: when did that start happening?
[08:42] <dholbach> phone, brb
[08:43] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: 2.12 -> 2.13. thought about it when ogra mentioned the drive icons
[08:54] <jordi> Kamion: should we import oem-config translations, or is that going to be in the d-i template?
[08:54] <Kamion> ogra: espresso deliberately uses the currently configured X setup, so that you can change it and have it persist
[08:54] <Manny_> dholbach, maybe you could handle this package creation? I created a little control file, but my rules file obviously isn't correct
[08:55] <ogra> Kamion, the problem is that none of my widescreen displays are configured correctly, the former liveCD fell back to ask for the resolution since it cant be determined, the new one doesnt do that anymore
[08:55] <Kamion> jordi: I guess it should be added to debian-installer
[08:56] <Kamion> ogra: conflicting requirements, I'm afraid
[08:56] <Kamion> I understand both of them
[08:56] <jordi> Kamion: should I block it?
[08:56] <Kamion> jordi: yes please
[08:56] <ogra> so i'm stuck on 1024x786 on all new laptops here ... only the old ones with regular resolution work
[08:56] <Kamion> ogra: in order to use the live CD well with your monitor, you presumably have to reconfigure X
[08:56] <ogra> yep
[08:56] <Kamion> ogra: if you do, that reconfiguration will be copied to the installed system
[08:57] <ogra> but its a regression that hits 3/5 laptops over here
[08:57] <Kamion> it's not an espresso regression
[08:57] <ogra> nope
[08:57] <ogra> its a liveCD regression
[09:00] <Kamion> right, but one we knew about and decided to accept while doing simplifiedlivecd
[09:00] <ogra> for me it hits the majority of systems ...
[09:01] <ogra> thats all i want to note
[09:01] <Kamion> perhaps xresprobe can be improved for some of your systems; have you tried that approach?
[09:01] <Kamion> that approach is really preferable in the medium term
[09:01] <ogra> it can only use what ddcprobe gives it
[09:01] <ogra> and on all these laptops ddcprobe is useless
[09:02] <ogra> the installer usually falls back to ask on all of them
[09:02] <Kamion> in theory, we could extend xresprobe to know about specific laptop models
[09:02] <ogra> hmm, true
[09:02] <Kamion> there is probably some way to distinguish them, even if it isn't EDID/DDC
[09:02] <Kamion> and even if it has to be a horrible giant lookup table, that's probably better than nothing
[09:03] <elmo> dmi info will tell you the make & model on most any laptop
[09:03] <ogra> sure you can go back to xfree 3.x times and have a monitor database again
[09:03] <ogra> together with the autodetection that might cover 99%
[09:04] <Kamion> sometimes the older times had it right
[09:04] <ogra> yep
[09:04] <Kamion> the database would be significantly smaller than it used to be
[09:04] <ogra> but merging both attempts seems to be the best way
[09:05] <ogra> yup
[09:05] <ogra> looking into dexconf should be on dapper+1 goals anyway ...
[09:05] <wasabi> elmo: I had a failed upload of "gapti" (should be NEW) a few days ago. Infinity mentioned it failed but he didn't have time to find the reason. I received no failure email, so I'm a bit in the dark about what went wrong.
[09:05] <wasabi> elmo: I can wait for infinity if you don't know. ;)
[09:06] <neutrinomass> Question: I'm thinking of filing a specification for dapper+2 with regards to the boot process. Basically, it will be about examining alternative boot systems (eg. initNG) and picking out the "best", so that we can speed up the boot process. This must have been discussed before, but I find no similar specification. Does such a spec have a future ?
[09:06] <ogra> it has a past ... since hoary iirc ... must be somewhere on the wiki
[09:06] <ogra> (dont ask me for a name)
[09:08] <elmo> wasabi: sorry, I don't know why it failed offhand either - there's nothing obviously wrong with  the .changes or the .dsc
[09:08] <elmo> wasabi: I suggest you file a bug on qprocd (or whatever it's called these days) in launchpad
[09:09] <wasabi> Ya know. It might be my gpg key. Can you check if the one ya'll have on record has an expiration date? Or tell me where to check.
[09:09] <elmo> wasabi: your person page in launchpad
[09:09] <wasabi> k
[09:09] <elmo> if you had an expiry date and later updated it, LP won't refetch the key that's a known bug
[09:10] <elmo> but you should file a bug anyway, because you should have gotten a reject notice
[09:11] <wasabi> I haven't even been following enough to know LP was in charge of this now.
[09:13] <janimo> neutrinomass: search the wiki there are very generic specs related to that
[09:15] <neutrinomass> janimo: I found a spec related to speeding up the boot process (which InitNG __dramatically__ does), but not focused on the boot per se but on gnome. Let me search again :)
[09:15] <janimo> neutrinomass: not sure, but I think it was called fasterboot or something
[09:16] <janimo> however the view seems to be that initNG does not solve the larger problems of sysvinit, and parallel/faster boot should be just one of the benefits of the new system
[09:16] <thom> neutrinomass: there were a number of discussions previously, but nothing really filled the needs we had
[09:17] <janimo> rumor has it there could be a solaris SMF reimlementation
[09:17] <thom> there's also launchd which people rave about
[09:17] <thom> (the apple one)
[09:17] <janimo> and both of them use evil licences
[09:18] <ogra> heh
[09:18] <jdub> janimo: there is nothing major wrong with the CDDL
[09:18] <thom> tseng: *g*
[09:18] <jdub> janimo: APSL is a different story
[09:18] <janimo> jdub: why are people talking about reimplementing SMF instead of just porting it?
[09:18] <thom> VIBE OUT!
[09:18] <wasabi> Yeah I'd like to see solaris' tool.
[09:18] <wasabi> I did some reading on it's arch.  A really far-fetched thing would be to create our own boot system, based on exactly what we need. The paralellism is absolutely essential though ...
[09:19] <wasabi> I doubt there's any want or need to create our own. :)
[09:19] <thom> neutrinomass: is it? it doesn't buy you much; we played with it
[09:19] <jdub> janimo: (that said, part of SMF relies on a kernel feature, which would have to be reimplemented, but it's not entirely necessary)
[09:19] <janimo> jdub: that;s cool. I thought sun was evil and purpposely not going with GPL-friendly lic
[09:19] <jdub> neutrinomass: do some basic testing - parallelism doesn't get you as much as you think
[09:19] <neutrinomass> thom: It is. I used it on Gentoo and it halved my boot time..
[09:20] <wasabi> It's not parallelism, it's accounting, that is liked.
[09:20] <wasabi> imo. ;0
[09:20] <jdub> janimo: they purposefully did not use the GPL, but that does not entirely result in 'evil'
[09:20] <thom> neutrinomass: then the gentoo boot process is very suboptimal as it stands, IME
[09:20] <neutrinomass> wasabi: initNG is GPL, isn't it ?
[09:20] <janimo> jdub:  Keybuk said something about him working a SMF reimpl . was he not serious?
[09:20] <janimo> could keybuk not be serious? :)
[09:20] <jdub> neutrinomass: no, what halved your boot time was a horrorshow "init but without doing what init does" joke
[09:21] <jdub> janimo: he's more fond of launchd
[09:21] <neutrinomass> thom: Actually gentoo boot pretty fast (which is to be expected, since you only start exactly what you want). AFAIK they have written their own initscripts, and a "stock" installation (base+gnome) boots faster than dapper :(
[09:22] <neutrinomass> jdub: Okay, it wasn't half. It was 27 seconds to KDE desktop vs. 44 seconds, with the kernel taking 7 seconds before init kicked in.
[09:23] <neutrinomass> janimo: Heh, I was thinking of it too :)
[09:23] <janimo> problem is too many of us think, and nobody does :)
[09:30] <thom> janimo: better than the alternative, which is 300 different boot processes, all with their authors whining about theirs being the best, and none actually working :-)
[09:30] <Kamion> neutrinomass: the process of getting Scott to go over the random scattergun boot process in breezy and optimising it saved similar amounts, though
[09:30] <janimo> :)
[09:31] <thom> yeah, the savings from mataro and similar processes in breezy were quite insane
[09:31] <janimo> still getting rid ov evm/raid would still be welcome
[09:32] <janimo> initedby default not totally of course
[09:32] <thom> janimo: a lot of people need it; if it bothers you, just delete the symlinks from /etc/rc*.d and they won't come back
[09:33] <thom> janimo: the problem with stuff like that is they're very machine/install specific optimisations
[09:33] <janimo> a lot more people don;t need it though probably 100:1 :)
[09:33] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Sorry, I'm not familiar with that. Sounds like a great improvement but still there's some work to be done, right ? :)
[09:33] <thom> dilinger: dude :-)
[09:33] <janimo> and they are far more likely to be able to enable it than the casual user
[09:34] <janimo> anyway
[09:34] <Kamion> neutrinomass: we expect people talking about this sort of stuff at least to be running dapper somewhere :)
[09:34] <neutrinomass> thom: Won't people who use RAID know how to enable it ?
[09:34] <neutrinomass> Kamion: I am on Dapper. I just joined the community though, so I didn't go through 5.10 :)
[09:34] <thom> neutrinomass: *shrug*; the argument is really "should we install this kind of stuff by default" - as currently we do, it has to be enabled
[09:34] <Kamion> neutrinomass: we're not going to regress out-of-the-box support under any circumstances; whatever happens, stuff like LVM and RAID needs to work when you ask the installer to do that
[09:35] <Kamion> (well, not deliberately)
[09:35] <Kamion> neutrinomass: recent> ah, ok
[09:35] <j^> neuralis why would one want to know how to use RAID?
[09:35] <neutrinomass> thom: There was some discussion on the mailing list on this, although it doesn't seem like it's headed somewhere.
[09:36] <janimo> wow, oowriter start/new file/type a few letters/save/close cycle on a 64M machine, in well under 15 minutes
[09:37] <neutrinomass> j^: People who use RAID know what it is right? They are also a minority. From my really humble point of view, if somebody wants RAID it won't be hard to enable it and the 19/20 people who don't use RAID and don't know how to disable it would benefit.
[09:37] <ogra> j^, hey, i once learnt it out of curiosity, later that knowledge got me a job ... knowledege pays sometimes ;)
[09:37] <thom> neutrinomass: i think your numbers are wrong, and i also think that a lot more people use it because it just works than you think
[09:38] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Well, I have no RAID controller, nor am I doing software RAID but all the RAID stuff started here by default.
[09:38] <zul> janimo: it might be wise not to run openoffice on that machine..
[09:38] <janimo> zul, irt was just curiosity/xubuntu test install :)
[09:38] <zul> hehe
[09:38] <neutrinomass> thom: You may be right about my numbers. I've just installed initng and will try taking some numbers for ubuntu ....
[09:38] <jdub> neutrinomass: it really doesn't matter - the raid script just starts mdadm, which goes into swap (we used to not start it at all if it wasn't required - i wonder why that has changed)
[09:39] <janimo> I have no other reasons for using oo even on larger machines :)
[09:39] <j^> ogra i also figured that out at some point, but if we apply that thinking to ubuntu we could also let people configure the kernel and compile it by default
[09:39] <Kamion> neutrinomass: it should be possible to make it take up as-close-as-possible to zero time if RAID isn't configured, rather than your first resort being to make things work less well for even a minority of users
[09:39] <Kamion> that should never be the first resort :)
[09:39] <janimo> neutrinomass: I also think your numbers are wrong. I am inclined to say 19:2000
[09:39] <ogra> j^, we let them, nobody will stop them ;)
[09:39] <j^> ogra by default
[09:40] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Yes, you are right about breaking stuff for people. It should be handled by the installer though (I'll maybe file a bug for dapper+1). If you've got RAID, use it, else don't start anything.
[09:41] <Kamion> neutrinomass: but if we have to disable it by default, the installer would have to be able to enable it by default again in the event that you configure RAID in the installer (however, that does make it more difficult to install without RAID and then set up RAID later, which is not all that uncommon and shouldn't be intentionally made more difficult)
[09:41] <jdub> neutrinomass: it's so close to that right now it doesn't matter
[09:41] <Kamion> neutrinomass: what I'm saying is that "don't start anything [that takes meaningful time] " doesn't have to mean "don't run the init script"
[09:41] <jdub> neutrinomass: mdadm is tiny, and will go into swap if it must
[09:42] <jdub> Kamion: was the md check taken out due to bugs, or...?
[09:42] <Kamion> if it's taking lots of time while RAID isn't configured, then that's the bug
[09:42] <Kamion> jdub: no idea, I'm afraid
[09:42] <neutrinomass> jdub: You're probably right, I don't have numbers for mdadm. I'm on a slow machine though, so our perception of time may be different ...
[09:42] <jdub> maybe it was just lost in synch :)
[09:42] <Kamion> check the changelog I guess
[09:44] <jdub> i think it was lost in the 1.9.0 sync
[09:44] <j^> i have a lib installed in /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib, lets call it liboil; now im linking an app that links a lib that links liboil, if i remove the copy from /usr/lib it works without specificly linking, but if the lib is in /usr/lib, gcc prefers /usr/lib over /usr/local/lib and fails - as oposed to ldd, which shows the one in /usr/local/lib
[09:44] <j^> where can i file a bug?
[09:45] <ogra> the bugtracker would be a first guess from my side ...
[09:45] <ogra> :)
[09:45] <j^> ogra yes, but which package, gcc, ld, ldd
[09:46] <j^> or Keybuk for the pach to libtool to remove specific linking
[09:46] <ogra> i'd try libc6 which holds ldconfig
[09:51] <janimo> are new CD builds planned for u/kubuntu?
[09:55] <Kamion> Ubuntu install is done as far as I know; Kubuntu install is in progress; live builds are waiting for espresso binaries to arrive
[09:55] <Kamion> I have a matrix of necessary builds that I'm working through
[09:55] <janimo> so all lives will get rebuilt?
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry.. did you also rebuild -server with the new baseinstaller?
[09:56] <ogra> edubuntu i386 install seems good, i386/amd64 live as well
[09:56] <Kamion> fabbione: no, it's in the queue
[09:56] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks
[09:57] <Kamion> fabbione: and needs to wait for base-installer binaries
[09:57] <fabbione> Kamion: i tought you did publish them already..
[09:57] <Kamion> fabbione: that was source
[09:57] <fabbione> oh cranky
[09:57] <fabbione> thanks
[09:59] <Kamion> ogra: I don't *believe* Edubuntu install needs a rebuild (there's been a newer partman-auto since, but that's about it), but shout if it does
[09:59] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu live needs to be rebuilt though
[09:59] <ogra> Kamion, i only tested i386 install so far, its not finished yet but looks very good
[10:00] <ogra> and live wouldnt need it from a functional POv, only for consistency with ubuntu/kubuntu
[10:00] <neutrinomass> Ok. The changes were not as dramatic as they were on gentoo: 37s vs 47s
[10:01] <Kamion> ogra: no, it does need it, 0.99.57 has an important partitioning fix
[10:01] <ogra> ah, k
[10:02] <ogra> worked fine here, but then i install on production machines, so i dont let it autoresize
[10:02] <Kamion> also the locales speedup
[10:02] <ogra> ah, yeah, that one i noticed
[10:02] <ogra> (the slowness)
[10:21] <mvo> Kamion: is bug #39062 already fixed in the current live-cd? it looks like I still get this issue here
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39062 in espresso "espresso autopartition fails after resize option" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39062
[10:24] <janimo> Kamion, can you queue a xubuntu install build for early tomorrow or later today?
[10:24] <janimo> after latest xfce4-utils is in the archive
[10:25] <janimo> LP says it's been built for a while
[10:31] <janimo> ok it's in the archive now, so anytime is ok. thanks
[10:32] <ogra> GAR GAR GAR !!!!
[10:32] <ogra> the firefox homepage just overwrites about edubuntu !!!
[10:32] <ogra> what a crap
[10:33] <ogra> damned
[10:33] <ajmitch> ogra?
[10:34] <ogra> the edubuntu FF page (which is our most important doc in dapper, since it links to all the postinst docs) gets overwritten by some strange ubuntu doc
[10:34] <ajmitch> nasty
[10:34] <ogra> yep
[10:34] <ogra> who decided that, where is specced how i can fix it ...
[10:36] <ogra> additionally that ubuntu doc has no css at all ... looks very bad
[10:39] <Kamion> mvo: no, current ubuntu/live predates that fix
[10:39] <Kamion> janimo: all CD builds are on my list
[10:39] <janimo> ok
[10:40] <mvo> so we get a new live-build before beta? a new install-cd build as well?
[10:40] <janimo> ogra, is that not the usual startpage alternative stuff? did something changed recently?
[10:40] <Kamion> mvo: I don't think ubuntu/install needs to be rebuilt, but all live CDs will be
[10:41] <ogra> seems it did change recently
[10:41] <janimo> ah, but you have both ubuntu and edubuntu providing alternatives in the same install right?
[10:41] <ogra> and after the desaster in breezy i was promised by at least 3 ppl that i would get notified if anything with that page might happen that could affect edubuntu
[10:42] <ogra> but apparently nobody sent a mail to edubuntu-devel or me ....
[10:42] <ogra> does anybody know a way how to get rid of that ?
[10:43] <Burgwork> ogra, talk to dholbach or mdke_ as they maintain the ubuntu-docs package, which contains the about page
[10:43] <ogra> hrm
[10:43] <dholbach> better mdke_
[10:43] <ogra> isnt there a wikipage or something for xubuntu and edubuntu how to be able to keep their startpages ?
[10:44] <Kamion> ogra: the edubuntu alternatives trick probably doesn't mesh well with i18n
[10:44] <ogra> for edubuntu that doc is really important
[10:44] <Kamion> ogra: iwj sent a mail about the i18n work, I believe
[10:44] <ogra> hrm
[10:44] <Kamion> maybe not to edubuntu-devel though
[10:45] <mvo> hm, did the oem install change from breezy to dapper? or do I just not remember how to use it :)
[10:45] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[10:45] <janimo> ogra, indeed for xubuntu is broken but only if using non-default locale, andonly because we have no translations yet
[10:45] <mvo> (on first-boot that is)
[10:45] <Kamion> mvo: it's changed, may be broken ...
[10:45] <Kamion> mvo: you need to run oem-config-prepare before it'll activate
[10:45] <Kamion> (that's changed from breezy)
[10:45] <Kamion> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[10:45] <Kamion> er, I said that :)
[10:45] <ogra> yes :)
[10:46] <mvo> Kamion: thanks, testing now
[10:46] <janimo> good night all
[10:46] <ogra> hmm, so there is no way to disable i18n :/
[10:47] <Kamion> ogra: better to get those pages translated; I'd talk to iwj about the details
[10:47] <Kamion> (when he's around)
[10:47] <ogra> i see how it works
[10:48] <ogra> but what do i do with locales where its not translated ? they will automatically see the ubuntu page and wont find the post install notes (i.e. essential for ltsp)
[10:48] <ogra> thats not a good spec if i cant disable it ...
[10:50] <ogra> actually the only mail to devel regarding the startup page seems to be from apr. 11th
[10:50] <Kamion> talk to iwj, or send a mail, or something
[10:51] <ogra> will do ...
[10:51] <mvo> Kamion: oem mode works :) changing the language seems to restart the oem-config application (and takes a bit) but I guess this is normal
[10:51] <ogra> Kamion, apart from that, edubuntu i386 is gold for both install and live
[10:52] <ogra> (apart from the pondering partman change indeed)
[10:52] <Kamion> mvo: it's a bug, but I skipped dealing with it pre-beta because there's an obvious workaround
[10:52] <Kamion> mvo: thanks for the test
[10:57] <Riddell> Kamion: can you rebuild the kubuntu live fs?  unless there's something else to be waited on
[10:57] <Kamion> Riddell: it's in my queue
[10:57] <Riddell> great
[10:57] <Kamion> ok, let's forestall the rest of them :)
[10:58] <Kamion> the queue consists of ubuntu/live (fs building), ubuntu/live/ports, ubuntu/dvd, kubuntu/live, kubuntu/live/ports, kubuntu/dvd, edubuntu/live, edubuntu/dvd, xubuntu/install (building), xubuntu/live, livecd-base
[11:00] <Riddell> Kamion: the OEM mode needs removed from the kubuntu CDs at some point, is that your department?
[11:00] <Kamion> Riddell: due to lack of KDE frontend, you mean?
[11:00] <Riddell> yes
[11:01] <mdke_> dholbach, hmm?
[11:02] <dholbach> mdke_: ogra and Burgwork were thinking about the aboutubuntu page
[11:02] <mdke_> what's up with it?
[11:03] <ogra> mdke, it breaks derivatives ff pages
[11:03] <mdke> ogra, the localisation?
[11:03] <ogra> yes
[11:03] <ogra> there seems no way to disable it
[11:04] <mdke> ogra, if you remember, we discussed whether it would be better to have a translated Ubuntu page or an ed/kubuntu page in a foreign language, and that the former was preferable
[11:04] <ogra> mdke, that wasnt discussed with me
[11:04] <mdke> I'm fairly sure that I made a point of asking your opinion too
[11:05] <ogra> in any case it breaks my most important doc and you cant disable it
[11:05] <mdke> that's correct.
[11:06] <ogra> (even if you'd have asked me, which i definately dont remember, i'd never have agreed to such a plan)
[11:06] <mdke> so what are we going to do about it?
[11:06] <ogra> and i think xubuntu isnt happy either
[11:06] <mdke> xubuntu prefers english for people who don't speak english over a translated ubuntu document?
[11:07] <ogra> mdke, no idea
[11:07] <mdke> ok.
[11:07] <mdke> xubuntu prefers english for people who don't speak english over a translated ubuntu document?
[11:07] <mdke> sorry
[11:07] <ogra> but i doubt they have enough translators as edubuntu
[11:07] <mdke> whoops
[11:07] <mdke> well, even if translation was an option for the derivatives, it would still mean doing alternatives on each translation, which is not a realistic option
[11:08] <mdke> maybe Ian can think of a way to disable it for you
[11:08] <ogra> and since the info on that doc is essential in edubuntu, i'd indeed prefer the english version over a "welcome to ubuntu dapper" with completely broken css
[11:09] <ogra> i'll talk to ian, we cant change it for beta anyway and the final doc isnt in edubuntu yet
[11:09] <Kamion> I think some solution that's better than alternatives needs to be found
[11:09] <mdke> ok.
[11:09] <ogra> the only thing that really bothers me is that everybody said that wont happen again and we'll shout ...
[11:09] <ogra> Kamion, yep
[11:09] <mdke> Kamion, if you can think of anything, you'd be my number 1 fan. I'd be very unhappy if we had to bin those translations
[11:10] <mdke> hang on
[11:10] <mdke> I'd be your, naturally
[11:10] <ogra> :)
[11:10] <Kamion> I don't have time myself, but I'm sure Ian can once he realises that it's more of an issue than he originally thought
[11:11] <mdke> infinity might have some ideas too, we discussed it together quite a lot
[11:11] <thom> run an apache and serve the right language with multiviews?
[11:12] <mdke> heh
[11:12] <ogra> hmm, would be an option for edubuntu as server distro, but what do the others ? :)
[11:13] <ajmitch> ogra: you mean every desktop user shouldn't have apache? :)
[11:13] <Kamion> Riddell: done, although post-beta unless kubuntu/install needs to be rebuilt for some other reason
[11:14] <Riddell> thanks. I've not had any complains about it so I don't think anyone actually tried it so should be fine for beta
[11:14] <thom> ajmitch: well, i might be slightly biased but i think everyone should have apache ;-)
[11:15] <ajmitch> thom: just something else for the users to complain about :)
[11:15] <thom> who could possibly complain about apache
[11:16] <ogra> caudium fetishists ?
[11:17] <ajmitch> hi pitti
[11:17] <pitti> hello again
[11:18] <pitti> how does it look?
[11:18] <mdke> ogra, shall I mail Ian about this?
[11:18] <Kamion> about halfway through the build matrix
[11:18] <ogra> mdke, that'd be nice, but i'd do it as well after beta
[11:19] <mdke> ogra, np, I don't have to release any operating systems this evening
[11:19] <ogra> me neither :)
[11:19] <ogra> tomorrow is the day
[11:19] <mdke> oh, well I'm free tomorrow too
[11:19] <mdke> lucky
[11:19] <ogra> and i only have to watch progressbars finishing the copying ...
[11:20] <ogra> pitti, i had drive icons on my desktop on a recent install ...
[11:21] <ogra> PQSERVICE seemed very strange
[11:22] <pitti> ogra: with espresso?
[11:22] <ogra> yep
[11:22] <ogra> o have installed over it already, but i can try to reproduce if you need info
[11:22] <ogra> s/o/i
[11:23] <pitti> ogra: espresso sets up spare partitions automatically, much like d-i, but you can't configure them
[11:23] <ogra> then it does that randomly
[11:23] <pitti> ogra: do you mean bug 40114?
[11:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40114 in espresso "does not offer /media mount point setup" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40114
[11:23] <ogra> i have 4 partitions on that disk
[11:23] <ogra> it showed only one on the dektop
[11:24] <ogra> and the PQSERVICE device, whatever that is
[11:24] <ogra> pitti, seems to be related but not the same
[11:26] <kmon> ogra: The PQSERVICE device is a hidden fat partition used in many laptops for recovering the pc to defaults, AFAIK
[11:27] <ogra> ah, i did know about that partition, but not that its named like that... funny that you dont see it from fdisk
[11:27] <Kamion> yeah, sounds like the same bug according to that
[11:27] <Kamion> I'll look at it after beta
[11:30] <kmon> ogra: I have an acer laptop with that partition. I think other manufactures use the same recovering software, with the same partition naming scheme...
[11:30] <Kamion> mjg59 filed an os-prober patch to let us recognise those partitions, which will help too
[11:30] <ogra> yes, thats also an acer
[11:30] <whiprush> jdub: we need an eft topic for the fridge.
[11:31] <mjg59> I don't think I had one for the Acer ones
[11:31] <kmon> ogra: then maybe it's only acer.... dunno
[11:31] <mjg59> Kamion: One issue is that several of them need to be "unhidden" before booting
[11:31] <mjg59> grub can do that, but os-prober doesn't provide that information
[11:32] <Kamion> we can add new fields if we need to, or add another program like linux-boot-prober to help
[11:32] <ajmitch> kmon: seems likely (I also have one)
[11:32] <mdke_> ogra, who else shall I cc: this mail to? the more people who might think of a solution to the alternatives problem, the better, i guess
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: just for planning, will you spin new live images still tonight, or tomorrow morning?
[11:32] <Kamion> pitti: tonight
[11:32] <pitti> or not at all?
[11:33] <ogra> mdke_, janimo in any case
[11:33] <kmon> ajmitch: do you own an acer laptop?
[11:33] <Kamion> ubuntu/live is building at the moment; the others will follow
[11:33] <ajmitch> kmon: yes
[11:33] <Kamion> they take an hour or so each, unfortunately, due to ports arches
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: ok, then it might be worth staying awake for a bit to test them
[11:33] <kmon> ajmitch: google reports many acer users... so maybe it's only on acer laptops
[11:33] <mdke_> ogra, email address? janimo shows nothing in launchpad
[11:34] <Kamion> pitti: ubuntu/live won't be much longer, I hope
[11:34] <pitti> cool
[11:34] <Kamion> mdke_: jani in launchpad
[11:34] <mdke_> Kamion, merci
[11:34] <ogra> ggrrrr
[11:34] <ogra> now evo crashes constantly
[11:35] <dholbach> ogra: what are you trying to do?
[11:35] <ogra> dholbach, i wanted to look up janimos address
[11:36] <ogra> now evo starts and crashes instantly
[11:36] <dholbach> ogra: it might help to get a backtrace with evolution-dbg and evolution-data-server-dbg installed
[11:37] <ogra> dholbach, installing ...
[11:37] <ogra> but it started out of the blue
[11:37] <ogra> very weird
[11:38] <mdke_> ogra, mailed
[11:38] <ogra> thanks
[11:38] <dholbach> CAMEL_DEBUG=all evolution   might be usefull to investigate further as well
[11:38] <ogra> (cant read it though ...)
[11:38] <ogra> dholbach, will do
[11:38] <mdke_> haha, np
[11:39] <dholbach> ogra: super.
[11:39] <dholbach> i'll carry my dog outside and then crash into bed, I'm terribly tired.
[11:39] <mdke_> nighty nighty
[11:39] <ogra> hey, she has legs ...
[11:39] <ogra> let her walk on her own ;)
[11:40] <dholbach> a broken claw... and only down the 4 stairs :)
[11:40] <ogra> oh
[11:40] <ogra> damned
[11:40] <ogra> you didnt tell
[11:40] <dholbach> not to worry - she'll be fine on the weekend :)
[11:40] <dholbach> i was at the vet yesterday
[11:40] <ogra> yup, i saw that
[11:41] <dholbach> But I'll tell her your regards. :-)
[11:41] <ogra> wanted to ask, but forgot about it
[11:41] <ogra> great
[11:41] <ogra> and greetings from fred
[11:41] <dholbach> I will do that. :-)
[11:43] <Kamion> Riddell: can't remember if I mentioned, but there are updated kubuntu/install images; kubuntu/live fs images are building at the moment
[11:43] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[11:46] <seb128> Kamion: I've a bug with espresso, I picked the "make space on hdan and install" partitionner option, it hit a "Taille trop faible" (Size too small) error dialog. After than picking any option (like manual partitioning) and clicking on next was doing the same, previous works but next is blocked on all screens back with that message
[11:47] <Kamion> ubuntu/live images updated
[11:47] <seb128> Kamion: not sure if that's clear ... anything useful I can get it from it? is that known?
[11:47] <Kamion> seb128: known, fixed in the updated images that literally *just* finished building
[11:47] <seb128> (before I close and try a new install again)
[11:47] <seb128> cool
[11:47] <Kamion> if you apt-get update; apt-get install espresso espresso-frontend-gtk espresso-ubuntu-{doc,artwork} on the CD you've got, that should do too
[11:47] <seb128> ah, nice
[11:48] <Riddell> should I be worried about the uninstallable openoffice.org2 packages?  I know they're only to being in openoffice.org packages
[11:48] <Kamion> seb128: bug 39062
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39062 in espresso "espresso autopartition fails after resize option" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39062
[11:48] <Kamion> Riddell: it's an lp problem, it isn't cleaning up arch: any .debs that have been superseded by arch: all
[11:49] <ogra> dholbach, seb128, bug 40236 for you
[11:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40236 in evolution "evolution crashes out of the blue and stays in a crasher loop" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40236
[11:50] <dholbach> ogra: can you add that as a comment?
[11:50] <ogra> what ?
[11:50] <dholbach> ogra: the backtrace
[11:50] <ogra> the backtrace ?
[11:50] <ogra> ugh
[11:50] <dholbach> click on the file and you see why
[11:50] <ogra> ok
[11:50] <ogra> yep, it will just produce a huge comment
[11:50] <dholbach> and I meant to run      CAMEL_DEBUG=all evolution   and pipe it into a logfile :-)
[11:51] <dholbach> that's fine
[11:51] <dholbach> that backtrace looks small-ish :)
[11:51] <ogra> and i doubt the readbilkity is better in the three column view, i'll upload it to rookery
[11:51] <seb128> partman-basicfilesystems
[11:51] <seb128> ups
[11:51] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338451
[11:51] <Kamion> Riddell: (but shouldn't be a real problem anyway)
[11:51] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 338451 in Shell "evolution startup and crash" [Critical,New]
[11:51] <dholbach> wow, seb128!
[11:51] <seb128> same bt
[11:51] <Riddell> Kamion: yeah, I'll just blame launchpad then :)
[11:52] <seb128> grumpf
[11:52] <ogra> sounds similar as well
[11:52] <seb128> apt-get install on the liveCD complains that /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process while trying to update espresso
[11:53] <Kamion> seb128: do you still have espresso running?
[11:53] <Kamion> or some leftover processes maybe
[11:53] <dholbach> ogra: I subscribed to the upstream bug.
[11:53] <Kamion> partman doesn't always die properly, annoyingly
[11:53] <dholbach> ogra: so I'll let you know
[11:54] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/evo.bt
[11:54] <seb128> Kamion: yeah, seems so
[11:54] <Kamion> or indeed espresso subprocesses in general - they mostly get cleaned up, but not always if the parent crashes
[11:54] <Kamion> seb128: subprocesses?
[11:54] <ogra> i'll add it to the bug if you still need it
[11:54] <dholbach> ogra: ok, thanks
[11:54] <dholbach> seb128: thanks
[11:55] <ogra> yes, thanks seb128 :)
[11:55] <seb128> Kamion: espresso gtkui, debconf-communcate -fnoninteractive espresso etc ... I'm cleaning :)
[11:56] <seb128> k, upgrade done
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <Kamion> seb128: gtkui suggests that the frontend window was still running
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:56] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <mdke> Seveas,
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <seb128> Kamion: I might have forced it to go away with the window manager bar since it was looping on the error dialog
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <Seveas> mdke, I have no ops here
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <mdke> Seveas, ah, can you get some freenode love?
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:57] <seb128> Kamion: is that known than the first screen has not "next" working by default? it looks like selected but pressing enter doesn't work
[11:57] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:58] <heytt> #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai #fazlamesai
[11:58] <Seveas> <-- heytt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu-devel
[11:58] <Seveas> --> HedgeMage (i=HedgeMag@freenode/staff/HedgeMage) has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:58] <mdke> HedgeMage, just left, thanks
[11:58] <HedgeMage> hehe
[11:58] <dholbach> I can't imagine that #fazlamesai is so exciting
[11:59] <dholbach> but Burgwork joined there, so maybe he can tell us, what the fuss is all about :)
[11:59] <Kamion> seb128: that button does have has_default set; not quite sure why it's not activating on Enter
[11:59] <Burgwork> nothing exciting
[11:59] <ogra> Burgwork, `
[11:59] <shackan> for the first time I've seen I don't know where the ignore button in xchat is
[11:59] <Burgwork> a language I didn't understand, looks like they support linux users
[11:59] <Burgwork> if fazlamesai.net == #fazlamesai
[12:00] <Burgwork> the /topic there disavows any knowledge of the spammers
[12:00] <ogra> thats turkish
[12:00] <seb128> Kamion: confirmed that the partman bug is fixed
[12:00] <Kamion> seb128: great, thanks
[12:00] <seb128> Kamion: but I don't get why it says the partition has not enough space though
[12:00] <Kamion> good to have confirmation of that, I'd cowboy-tested it only
[12:00] <seb128> it has 14.21GB free
[12:00] <Kamion> seb128: the default slider position is wrong; that's part of the same bug
[12:01] <seb128> slider is on 12
[12:01] <Kamion> you might need to up it to 13, if that was the default you got after going forward once
[12:01] <seb128> (it was not on first try I think, it looked like it changed after hitting the error)
[12:01] <Kamion> I think there's a rounding error
[12:01] <Burgwork> dholbach, you been spying on me again?
[12:01] <Kamion> but I only noticed it today, so haven't fixed it yet
[12:01] <dholbach> Burgwork: sure... I'm your most passionate stalker
[12:01] <ogra> Burgwork, http://www.fazlamesai.net/int/ btw
[12:02] <azeem> people with a .comcast.net IP were spamming #debian in a similar way last night
[12:02] <Burgwork> ogra, mm, just saw that, thanks
[12:02] <dholbach> Burgwork: I checked /who #fazlamesai to see how many people there were etc
[12:02] <seb128> Kamion: 14.21Go free according to manual partitioning screen
[12:02] <Kamion> seb128: how big's the partition?
[12:02] <seb128> 16
[12:02] <seb128> 16.19G


[09:23] <ChrisWoollard> For your information -> O'Reilly Media
[09:23] <ChrisWoollard> *Free to Choose* Deal/Day: Save 60% ALL ebooks & videos! Code DDF2H #CyberMonday http://oreil.ly/free2choose
[14:15] <nisshh> aquarius, sorry, i forgot about the hack session we were going to do on monday, my bad, is now a good time?
[14:16] <nisshh> im free for the next couple of hours
[14:18] <aquarius> nisshh, heya, pal. Yeah, now's good
[14:19] <nisshh> aquarius, cool, so have you created your chapter and pushed it to the branch?
[14:19] <aquarius> nisshh, not yet, no; I only created something just to play around. I thought we'd talk about what should be in it
[14:19] <nisshh> fair enough
[14:20] <nisshh> aquarius, so what is in the sample app that uses desktopcouch?
[14:20] <nisshh> thats what the chapter will be about, as well as a general introduction to couchdb itself i guess
[14:21] <aquarius> nisshh, that's what I'm not sure about -- is there one sample app for the whole book, or is there just one for my chapter? (Sorry, I haven't kept up on this sort of thing.)
[14:22] <nisshh> aquarius, look in the branch, there is a directory called sample-app or something similar, there is one sample app for the whole manual
[14:22] <nisshh> the whole sample app is in there
[14:23] <aquarius> k. It seems to be called "feed reader" :)
[14:23] <nisshh> yeah
[14:24] <nisshh> its supposed to be an identica client prettymuch
[14:25] <aquarius> ok. At the moment it just fetches an RSS feed and displays the contents in a DictionaryGrid
[14:25] <nisshh> yeah
[14:25] <aquarius> what else is it planned to do? :)
[14:26] <nisshh> i think thats as far as Rick got when he was creating it
[14:26] <aquarius> oh. heh :)
[14:26] <aquarius> also, uses BeautifulSoup for parsing xml. ouch. Still, that's not what we're working on :)
[14:27] <nisshh> yeah
[14:27] <aquarius> what else should we do? I mean, I don't want to do anything to do with posting to identica or anything, because the way you should do that (as part of the platform!) is to use libgwibber.
[14:28] <nisshh> yeah
[14:29] <nisshh> aquarius, Rick keeps telling me he wants to re write the whole sample app, but he hasnt told me what he wants to change/improve etc, so i dont know what part will use desktopcouch, etc
[14:30] <aquarius> then it is difficult to know what I should write about :)
[14:30] <aquarius> so, let's leave that aside for now, and talk about section headings
[14:31] <nisshh> yep
[14:32] <aquarius> my inclination is to write about the following things: what desktopcouch is, what benefits it provides over other storage approaches, how it ties into Ubuntu One; how to createa  database, store things in it, read things from it; how to query your desktopcouch data store; how to view the data in it for debugging; some thoughts on the sort of data you should or should not store therein; pointers to external re
[14:32] <aquarius> sources.
[14:32] <nisshh> that sounds good
[14:33] <nisshh> aquarius, thats just about the perfect order to put it all in too
[14:33] <aquarius> that's what I thought. :)
[14:34] <aquarius> and obviously once I know what the sample app is going to be, I'll illustrate that with examples taken from the sample app.
[14:34] <nisshh> aquarius, well, the idea is that the manual is used to teach the reader how to create a working copy of the sample app
[14:35] <aquarius> *nod* absolutely
[14:35] <aquarius> but I can't illustrate examples from the sample app if I don't know what the sample app is going to do. Need to talk to rickspencer3 once he gets here, I suppose
[14:35] <nisshh> yeah
[14:36] <nisshh> we also want the user to learn by doing, not by just copy/pasting
[14:36] <nisshh> so encouragement to experiment and add things is a big plus
[14:37] <nisshh> aquarius, are you able to hang around till rick joins? so we can discuss this together?
[14:38] <aquarius> sure thing
[14:38] <nisshh> cool
[14:39] <nisshh> is he travelling or something though, i havent seen him on IRC for a couple of days now
[14:39] <nisshh> hopefully he will be on in the next couple of hours
[14:46] <nisshh> aquarius, rick's here
[14:47] <nisshh> rickspencer3, whats the deal with the sample app currently? you mentioned a while ago you wanted to redo it completely
[14:47] <rickspencer3> nisshh, I don't know that i want to redo it completely, since there's hardly any code for it
[14:47] <rickspencer3> what's up?
[14:48] <nisshh> well, aquarius is just sorting out his chapter and what is in it, he doesnt know what part of the sample app will be using desktopcouch
[14:49] <nisshh> hence, he cant write that part of his chapter
[14:49] <aquarius> rickspencer3, essentially, I can decide to add some new stuff to the sample app which uses DC, but I don't know what more you want to do with the sample app than what it already does
[14:50] <rickspencer3> aquarius, I don't really know either
[14:50] <aquarius> :)
[14:50] <rickspencer3> I guess you could just store some configuration data or something?
[14:50] <aquarius> right, if you don't have a specific plan, then I'll do something appropriate. No worries.
[14:50] <rickspencer3> cool
[14:51] <nisshh> excellent
[14:51] <aquarius> nisshh, so, we need to talk about what else the sample app will do in other chapters. At the moment there's nothing in the app for desktopcouch to do, because the app hardcodes one specific identica feed and displays it in a window. Don't need configuration or storage for that ;) So, what are other people planning to do to it?
[14:53] <nisshh> aquarius, well, there is an indicator applets chapter
[14:53] <nisshh> pretty self explanitory what that does
[14:53] <aquarius> ah, so that'll integrate the sample app into the Messaging Menu?
[14:53] <nisshh> jono was going to write a gstreamer chapter, but he no longer has time
[14:53] <aquarius> again, doesn't really need storage or configuration.
[14:53] <nisshh> yeah, either the messaging menu or on its own
[14:54] <nisshh> aquarius, maybe the sample app could have to ability to fetch and display multiple peoples timelines, and the URL's could be stored in couchdb?
[14:55] <nisshh> im not sure how efficient that would be though, tbh
[14:55] <nisshh> and im not sure if libgwibber has support for that yet
[14:55] <aquarius> nisshh, sure, although...then it's a general identica reader. Which is what gwibber is for, and that's part of the platform :) I'm not brilliantly keen on duplicating what libgwibber does.
[14:56] <nisshh> aquarius, well, this is not necessarily for the user to release into the wild, just for them to learn, maybe we should say that in the manual?
[14:57] <aquarius> nisshh, oh, agreed, but having our manual which says "use the platform: here, look, here is a sample app which doesn't use the platform but instead reimplements some of it, so you can learn" is a pretty mixed message ;)
[14:57] <nisshh> true :)
[14:57] <aquarius> I'm thinking about, perhaps, remembering which items you've read, which items you've expanded, something like that
[14:58] <nisshh> so an RSS reader? not an identica reader?
[14:58] <nisshh> aquarius, ^^^
[14:58] <aquarius> not sure. At the moment, the items are all wider than the window; I was wondering about expanding an individual item to be larger which would show details of the user who posted it, something like that
[14:59] <aquarius> but I don't think I like that idea
[14:59] <aquarius> at the moment it *is* an rss reader, it just happens to be reading a feed from identica ;)
[14:59] <nisshh> yeah
[14:59] <nisshh> thats true
[15:02] <nisshh> aquarius, i think have a general feed reader and use your idea of having it remember unread/read/expanded, etc, using couchdb
[15:02] <nisshh> sounds like a good idea, but is it doable?
[15:03] <aquarius> depends on what you mean by doable
[15:04] <aquarius> to make this a general feed reader, we need to maintain the list of feeds (fine to do in DC), and allow people to edit that list (which requires UI)
[15:04] <nisshh> aquarius, well, is it a reasonable use case of desktopcouch? is it simple enough for a new developer to understand? will the code be clean or will it be all hacky?
[15:04] <nisshh> yeah
[15:05] <aquarius> storing your list of feeds in DC is a fine use of desktopcouch -- your list of subscriptions then follows you around
[15:05] <nisshh> yeah
[15:05] <nisshh> that should be pretty simple to do actually
[15:06] <nisshh> aquarius, so are you happy to do that?
[15:07] <nisshh> although, i dont have a use for gstreamer in the sample app :)
[15:07] <aquarius> well, I am, but I don't know that I'll have time to write up those changes in other chapters
[15:07] <nisshh> which changes in other apps?
[15:07] <nisshh> chapters*
[15:08] <aquarius> well, if I change the UI, for example, do other already-written chapters have screenshots of the UI? Or snippets of code from the sample app which I'll now be altering?
[15:08] <nisshh> aquarius, there are no screenshots in the manual yet, although the code might have to be changed a bit in other chapters
[15:09] <aquarius> yeah. that's what I don't think I'll have time to do
[15:09] <nisshh> aquarius, i tell you what, if your happy to change the code relating to your chapter, i will change any other required code
[15:09] <aquarius> altering the sample app, adding DC support to remember the feed list and other things, and writing the DC chapter
[15:09] <aquarius> ah, ok, cool :)
[15:09] <nisshh> yeah
[15:09] <nisshh> if you do that, ill do any code changes needed in other chapters
[15:10] <nisshh> none of the other chapters are actually finished yet
[15:10] <nisshh> all the code needs bringing in line with the sample app, currently its all just generic examples
[15:11] <nisshh> godbyk, ping
[15:12] <nisshh> aquarius, even if you just write bits of the chapter whenever you have small amounts of free time, that would be enough so that most of the chapter would be there by release time
[15:13] <nisshh> or even sooner if we work hard :)
[15:13] <aquarius> *nod*
[15:13] <aquarius> what's "release time"?
[15:13] <aquarius> Thursday?
[15:13] <nisshh> lol, nope
[15:13] <nisshh> i think that alpha1 snapshot was too optimistic
[15:13] <nisshh> :)
[15:13] <aquarius> i thought it was, too, but I didn't want to piss on your bonfire :)
[15:14] <nisshh> no, no, you were right
[15:14] <nisshh> i prefer people to be honest with me and just say what they think rather than "not piss on my bonfire" :)
[15:16] <nisshh> aquarius, so, roughly a month or so before natty's release there will be a string freeze where no content can be changed, this is so translators dont constantly get their translations disappearing :)
[15:16] <nisshh> and then hopefully the manual will get released around natty final release
[15:17] <aquarius> :)
[15:17]  * aquarius laughs
[15:17] <nisshh> and about a week or two before string freeze i want to get as many eyes on the manual as possible so we can catch formatting and grammer bugs, style issues, etc
[15:17] <nisshh> hehe
[15:17] <aquarius> I shall try and tell you in future, then, but I avoid telling people how to run their project ;)
[15:18] <nisshh> hehe
[15:18] <aquarius> so I've got a little while. If I don't have at least a provisional version of the chapter written by, let's say, middle of next week, then moan at me? I should have something by then.
[15:18] <nisshh> aquarius, its not "my" project its "our" project :)
[15:19] <aquarius> you're the boss, boss. :)
[15:19] <nisshh> aquarius, well, natty final release is end of next april right? so string freeze will be end of march or so, as long as you have a good draft by next february ill be happy :)
[15:19] <nisshh> haha
[15:20] <nisshh> aquarius, i welcome any suggestions people may have to help me run the project better :)
[15:20] <aquarius> the way to get me to do something is emphatically not to say "you have three months to do it in". Next week. I am not good with long deadlines ;)
[15:21] <nisshh> i see
[15:21] <nisshh> hehe
[15:21] <nisshh> aquarius, ok, you have 3 hours :)
[15:21] <aquarius> ha!
[15:22] <nisshh> i think im getting the hang of this :)
[15:22] <aquarius> I admire your management technique, but not your understanding of my workload. Some sort of middle ground ;)
[15:22] <nisshh> aquarius, i guess as long as im seeing progress :)
[15:23] <nisshh> well thats just it, i have no idea what your workload is like, you see, so i have to just account for a large workload, like so many of you guys have :)
[15:23] <nisshh> which is why i started off with a long deadline
[15:24] <nisshh> aquarius, so, yeah, next week, rough draft of most of the chapter would be good :)
[15:25] <nisshh> i will start bugging you about this time next week if i havent seen anything new in the branch though :)
[15:25] <aquarius> that's perfecr
[15:26] <aquarius> I need a progress chaser for stuff like this. Well volunteered ;)
[15:26] <nisshh> cool
[15:27] <nisshh> aquarius, im not exactly experienced at running a project, but i realise now that chasing things up and making sure they get done is a big part of it :)
[15:27] <aquarius> it's damned nearly the only part of it, but don't tell anyone I said that. :P
[15:27] <nisshh> haha
[15:28] <nisshh> aquarius, ping me anytime if you have any issues
[15:29] <nisshh> (with the manual)
[15:29] <aquarius> cheers, pal
[15:29] <nisshh> :)
[17:03] <ChrisWoollard> nisshh: godbyk messaged me earlier. He is around later and I will talk to him about the font issues then.
[17:05] <ChrisWoollard> was there anything else that you needed from him while i have got him?
[17:09] <nisshh> ChrisWoollard, nah, thats why i pinged him, thanks dude :)
[17:09] <ChrisWoollard> he is around later so. hopefully we can sort it
[17:10] <ChrisWoollard> have you thought of coverpages?
[17:16] <ChrisWoollard> I am going out for a while. catch you later.
[18:28] <godbyk> Hey, nisshh.  Still around?
[18:30] <nisshh> godbyk, yep
[18:32] <nisshh> godbyk, whats up?
[18:36] <godbyk> I just got back from holiday (Thanksgiving).
[18:37] <godbyk> Then I had meetings this morning.
[18:37] <nisshh> fair enough
[18:37] <godbyk> Now I can finally get back to real work again. :-)
[18:37] <nisshh> hehe
[18:37] <godbyk> Were you wanting to pester me about the font stuff in the dev guide?
[18:37] <nisshh> not pester :)
[18:38] <nisshh> i was just going to ask you if you knew WHY it was happening and what we can do to fix it/work around it
[18:38] <nisshh> i realise it must the Ubuntu font, but im not sure why it doesnt display special characters correctly
[18:38] <godbyk> Regarding bug 682057, it's because the \then command tries to print a Unicode character that doesn't (yet) exist in the Ubuntu fonts.
[18:38] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 682057 in ubuntu-developer-manual "Characters not supported by the Ubuntu Font." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682057
[18:39] <nisshh> i see
[18:39] <nisshh> so i guess we just have to wait till these missing unicode characters get added to the font?
[18:39] <nisshh> godbyk, ^^^
[18:40] <godbyk> It tries to print ‣ (U+2023), but that character doesn't exist in the Ubuntu font.
[18:40] <godbyk> There are a few workarounds available.
[18:40] <nisshh> cool
[18:40] <godbyk> 1. Print that character from a different font.  (Easy enough to do.)
[18:40] <godbyk> 2. Pick a different font for the text.  (I don't think Ubuntu looks terribly good for the text font in this case, frankly.)
[18:41] <dutchie> use a different character?
[18:41] <godbyk> You could use a different character within the Ubuntu font, too, if an appropriate one were availab.e
[18:41] <godbyk> available, rather.
[18:41] <dutchie> does it have  → ?
[18:41] <nisshh> yeah
[18:42] <nisshh> dutchie, oh, urgh, not that arrow character, that looks so ugly :)
[18:42] <godbyk> dutchie only picked that one because it gives him an excuse to use the compose key. ;-)
[18:42] <nisshh> haha
[18:43] <dutchie> godbyk: maybe ;)
[18:43] <dutchie> discovered a fun new character you can do with compose the other day
[18:44] <nisshh> godbyk, tbh, i think its the way evince renders the PDF that makes the Ubuntu font look crap
[18:44] <dutchie> ☭
[18:44] <nisshh> its a bit blurry
[18:45] <dutchie> there's always ‽ too
[18:45] <nisshh> dutchie, lol, that is a strange symbol :)
[18:45] <Omega> Hah, dutchie, I wasn't expecting that in this channel.
[18:45] <dutchie> Omega: compose CCCP (make sure it's capitals)
[18:45] <nisshh> wow, everyone is awake tonight :)
[18:45] <Omega> I'm in an anarchy channel.
[18:46] <Omega> And I was just about to switch to it
[18:46] <Omega> And I saw your hammer and sickle
[18:47] <godbyk> Is there a cool way to define new compose-key combinations?
[18:47] <godbyk> ('cool' meaning 'doesn't require godbyk to recompile things')
[18:47] <nisshh> godbyk, anyway, could we get back to the bug? :)
[18:48] <dutchie> godbyk: pretty sure there is
[18:48] <dutchie> ~/.xmodmap or some such
[18:48] <nisshh> oh god, i HATE that file with a vengeance :)
[18:49] <nisshh> godbyk, regarding the options you gave me before, shall we try number 1?
[18:50] <godbyk> nisshh: We can, yes.
[18:50] <godbyk> Let me give it a shot real quick.
[18:51] <nisshh> dutchie, its very strange, i have a logitech G15 keyboard right, .xmodmap breaks my keyboard and stops it from working at all, g15-tools makes it work a bit better but disables the extra G keys and just default setup works fine except for the M keys and the LCD :)
[18:51] <dutchie> handy :)
[18:51] <nisshh> i will never win with this i swear :)
[18:51] <dutchie> i wonder if that's the same one the guy from #ubuntu-uk was writing drivers for
[18:52] <nisshh> possibly, although there is the G19 and G11 as well
[18:52] <nisshh> G19 being the newest
[18:53] <dutchie> 18:52:59 < Azelphur> the Logitech G19
[18:53] <dutchie> 18:53:05 < Azelphur> and other G-Series devices
[18:54] <godbyk> nisshh: that works for now. I'll commit the change real quick.
[18:54] <nisshh> dutchie, cool
[18:54] <nisshh> godbyk, cheers
[18:54] <dutchie> nisshh: and btw, it's not Azelphur writing it, but ali1234
[18:55] <nisshh> yeah, i dont know who that is though :)
[18:55] <dutchie> Azelphur was doing some front-end or something
[18:55] <dutchie> nisshh: just so you don't go annoying the wrong guy :)
[18:55] <nisshh> dutchie, unless it works 100% ill stick with default setup :)
[18:55] <godbyk> nisshh: Committed as r21.
[18:55] <nisshh> yeah
[18:55] <nisshh> godbyk, cool
[18:57] <nisshh> godbyk, yeah, it looks awesome :)
[18:58] <godbyk> Well, not awesome, but ever-so-slightly-better than before. :-)
[18:59] <nisshh> haha
[18:59] <nisshh> godbyk, well, i still think its evince that is rendering the font badly, the Ubuntu font on my desktop is super sharp
[18:59] <godbyk> Will a lot more material be going into the manual?
[18:59] <godbyk> Different types of material?
[19:00] <nisshh> yes to your first question, not sure what you mean by different types
[19:00] <nisshh> we have 2-3 chapters to add in still
[19:00] <godbyk> I think Ubuntu is fine as a UI font; it just doesn't look very good as a book font, in my opinion.
[19:00] <nisshh> i agree somewhat
[19:01] <godbyk> Different types: body text, code listings, captions, side notes, ... Anything that isn't already provided for by the current manual style?
[19:01] <nisshh> godbyk, we hired a technical writer (well, canonical did) to oversee the editing of the manual and developer.ubuntu.com :)
[19:01] <godbyk> Wow!
[19:01] <nisshh> she starts tomorrow and is helping us till march next year :)
[19:01] <nisshh> freaking awesome :)
[19:02] <nisshh> godbyk, there are a few minor things, like i wish it didnt indent the start of each paragraph, makes it look terrible
[19:02] <godbyk> Okay.
[19:02] <nisshh> and the code font looks WAY too similar to the Ubuntu font
[19:03] <nisshh> it needs to look more different, so the reader can easily tell the difference
[19:03] <godbyk> I'd like to have a good idea of what kind of content will be needed (and some samples to work with) so I can work on the design of the book.
[19:03] <godbyk> I agree.
[19:03] <nisshh> godbyk, well, the consensus among the team is to go with the new Ubuntu branding colors
[19:04] <godbyk> 'kay.
[19:04] <nisshh> and we havent discussed the cover page yet
[19:04] <godbyk> I'll be updating our manual with the Ubuntu colors, too, when I get time to test them in print.
[19:04] <nisshh> cool, maybe you can do both manuals colors then?
[19:04] <godbyk> You should sic thorwil on the cover page.  He always comes up with amazing stuff.
[19:04] <nisshh> yeah
[19:04] <nisshh> i already did
[19:05] <godbyk> Do you guys have a meeting at some point? Maybe I can stop in and chat with you about the book design. See what you guys had in mind.
[19:05] <nisshh> he said just come back to him with any images and a description of the look i want and he will knock one up
[19:05] <godbyk> Sweet.
[19:06] <nisshh> godbyk, we were trying to organize a sprint somewhere, but that wont happen now :)
[19:06] <nisshh> we will probably have a meeting sometime soon
[19:06] <godbyk> Well, I just meant an irc meeting.
[19:06] <godbyk> :)
[19:06] <nisshh> yeah
[19:06] <nisshh> i think we are all having a skype call with the tech editor later this week
[19:06] <nisshh> so maybe then would be a good idea
[19:07] <nisshh> godbyk, ill let you know when something comes up :)
[19:07] <godbyk> cool.
[19:07] <godbyk> nisshh: are you guys planning on releasing this with natty? or sooner than that?  (what's your timeline?)
[19:07] <nisshh> godbyk, yeah, with natty
[19:07] <nisshh> writing freexe in march most likely
[19:08] <nisshh> freeze*
[19:08] <godbyk> Okay.
[19:08] <nisshh> i think we are making good progress, i am pushing everyone hard and chasing up all the loose ends :()
[19:09] <nisshh> i only have another two chapters to sort out now :)
[19:09] <nisshh> oh, plus jenkins chapters
[19:10] <godbyk> I'd like to use the listings package for the code listings. It'll make things look nicer.
[19:11] <nisshh> godbyk, listings package?
[19:11] <godbyk> The downside is that there was a nasty bug between it and polyglossia/babel last I looked.
[19:11] <godbyk> nisshh: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/listings/listings.pdf
[19:12] <godbyk> It adds things like line numbering.
[19:12] <godbyk> And syntax highlighting.
[19:12] <nisshh> very nice
[19:13] <nisshh> that would be awesome
[19:13] <nisshh> godbyk, because then we could say things like "see line x in the following example:"
[19:14] <nisshh> instead of "see the fourth line from the bottom in the following example:"
[19:14] <nisshh> and the syntax highlighting would make it so much more readable
[19:15] <godbyk> nisshh: precisely.
[19:15] <nisshh> yeah
[19:16] <nisshh> godbyk, remember those tables i wanted to turn into columned lists a while ago? well, they arent displaying properly still :)
[19:17] <godbyk> nisshh: can you give me a page number?
[19:18] <nisshh> godbyk, hmm, one sec
[19:20] <nisshh> godbyk, pages 7 & 8
[19:24] <godbyk> nisshh: Ah, I see.. Where it's centering the first columns on the page?
[19:25] <nisshh> yeah, and it indents the last column too
[19:25] <nisshh> godbyk, anyway dude, i need to get some sleep, if you fix the issue, just commit it to trunk and ill see it in the morning :)
[19:26] <godbyk> nisshh: I'll see what I can do.  G'night!
[19:27] <nisshh> gnight, thanks godbyk :)
[19:27]  * nisshh is sleeping now :)


[05:17] <multiverse> Any humans out there?
[11:16] <eamonn> hello, can someone help me troubleshoot with my sound
[11:16] <eamonn> I have it working
[11:16] <eamonn> but now it crashes all the time
[11:17] <eamonn> which is weird because it never crashed when the sound wasn't working


[00:18] <smoser> JayF, harlowja thanks for input.
[00:18] <harlowja> np
[00:19] <JayF> smoser: Nathan from Rackspace who you've been tlaking to is now a direct co-worker of mine
[00:20] <JayF> smoser: just fyi
[00:21] <harlowja> suro-patz1 & mmorais are direct co-workers of mine (so u don't feel left out smoser )
[00:22] <harlowja> :-P


[03:08] <mate|7250> Anyone install an hp deskjet wireless printer on Ubuntu Mate? Any suggestions where on the Web I could go to learn how?
[11:25] <mate|6575> hello
[13:03] <ESO4B-18> hello
[13:03] <ESO4B-18> bro
[13:04] <ESO4B-18> are you fucking me
[13:04] <ESO4B-18> i punchyou the next time
[13:04] <ESO4B-18> to see
[13:04] <diogenes_> !ops
[13:05] <diogenes_> we've got offensive language here
[18:55] <mate|75407> dude1
[20:00] <scootergrisen> Who can help delete/change language codes on Transifex?
[20:00] <scootergrisen> For Ubuntu MATE Welcome project
[20:01] <scootergrisen> There is both "da" and "da_DK" but i only want to have one of them
[21:43] <pieter> hi
[21:44] <diogenes_> hi
[21:44] <pieter> hru
[21:44] <pieter> new to this
[21:44] <diogenes_> ok
[23:23] <Pocket> I am primarily a Ubuntu Mate user, however, I recently installed Solus on a separate partition. It worked great for a few days, but then Ubuntu Mate completely disappeared from my grub menu. I can see it in my file managerbut cannot reinstall. I used a live disc to reinstall and it is not  working either. Any insight is appreciated.


[01:05] <marylindaisy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm34sj65MkA
[10:31] <Chunkyz> hi
[12:23] <TheDcoder> WHY IS THERE A LINK TO AN OUTDATED VERSION LUBUNTU IN THE HOME PAGE!!!!!?!?!?!??!?
[12:23] <TheDcoder> I just wasted 800 MB on an old version ;_;
[12:23] <TheDcoder> Some pls fix
[12:23] <TheDcoder> *Someone
[12:24] <TheDcoder> Quick links for direct Downloads of the latest version:
[12:24] <TheDcoder> [Download lubuntu (Intel x86) desktop CD]   [Download Torrent]
[12:24] <TheDcoder> [Download lubuntu 64-bit (AMD64) desktop CD]   [Download Torrent]
[12:24] <TheDcoder> ^ Those links point to 14.x
[12:24] <TheDcoder> Latest is 16.x LTS
[12:24] <TheDcoder> some one please fix it
[12:24] <TheDcoder> and fast
[12:24] <TheDcoder> before someone downloads them using that link
[12:47] <aguitel> try to boot lubuntu with usb on chromebook but error happens
[12:47] <aguitel> not booting
[12:58] <aguitel> error setting up gfxboot
[13:38] <lapion> Hello
[13:39] <TheDcoder> What is the minimum hard disk space requirement for Lubuntu?
[13:59] <aguitel> 375898541G
[14:38] <tsimonq2> TheDcoder: I would say at the *absolute* *bare* minimum, it could run with 4 GB
[14:38] <TheDcoder> lol
[14:38] <TheDcoder> I thought of using a 1 GB VHD :)
[14:38] <tsimonq2> TheDcoder: and if you're talking about lubuntu.net, that is NOT our website, Mr. All In Caps :P
[14:38] <tsimonq2> lubuntu.me is
[14:39] <tsimonq2> we no longer have control over lubuntu.net
[14:39] <TheDcoder> Oh
[14:39] <TheDcoder> who controls .net then?
[14:49] <tsimonq2> TheDcoder: founder, but no longer a team member
[14:49] <TheDcoder> Oh...
[14:49] <tsimonq2> "lubuntu.net is not associated with Canonical which holds the Ubuntu trademark."
[14:50] <TheDcoder> I missed that
[14:50] <tsimonq2> while the Lubuntu team does not have Canonical employees (although I'd like a job there one day ;) ), they provide a lot of resources for us
[14:51] <tsimonq2> so to say the site is not associated with Canonical in any way is saying it's not the official site
[14:51] <TheDcoder> :o
[14:52] <tsimonq2> because Canonical holds the Ubuntu trademark, and as an official flavor, we get to use that trademark in our name
[14:53] <tsimonq2> TheDcoder: make sense? :)
[14:53] <TheDcoder> sure
[18:34] <tims_techlaptop> so I have a headset and when I plug it into lubuntu I only get sound in my left ear, how to resolve this?
[23:20] <echoe> Hi, when i use alt+f2 or super+r, I'm not getting the little dash. I just installed 14.04 from the lubnutu mainpage? Is there something else I should do to activate this feature or something? other keyboard shortcuts are working
[23:26] <echoe> dash does appear to load fine within a terinal
[23:41] <echoe> found the bug and fixed the openbox menu :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1313355


[11:19] <garren> where can I get a rootfs and kernel build for my beagleboard?
[11:24] <lool> we don't support beagleboard officially ATM, but ogra has put some hand built kernel and rootfs on his pages: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/beagle/kernel/
[11:25] <lool> you can use the EVM's rootfs http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/OMAP35x_EVM/
[11:42] <garren> lool: great thanks.. is there a list or something to see what packages are supported at the moment for Ubuntu-arm?
[12:01] <persia> garren, In terms of packages, support is mostly like anything else in Ubuntu.  What ends up on the official images is "supported", and the rest is "mostly supported".
[12:02] <persia> kernels are a little funny, because there's only so many flavours, and some stuff doesn't work.
[12:02] <persia> Beyond that, if you find a package that doesn't work, please report a bug: no promise anyone will help you fix it, but it ought be fixed.
[12:08] <garren> cool persia thanks...
[16:29] <strk> forgive the dumb question, but shouldn't source.list contain something to specify we're an ARM system ?
[16:30] <strk> as all it mentions is 'deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports jaunty main universe'
[16:31] <strk> ah, I see the repository contains different binaries for different archs, ok
[17:13] <lool> strk: No, dpkg knows about your architecture
[17:13] <lool> strk: dpkg --print-architecture
[17:13] <lool> strk: not sure what problem you're facing with this?  :)
[17:18] <strk> none, was just wondering, now I'm happy and informated :)