[00:54] <stochastic> Can anyone tell me if I'm correct on this:  For the next little while the best method for upgrading packages is to upload it to Debian and then request a sync into Ubuntu?
[01:05] <ari-tczew> stochastic: yes
[01:05] <ari-tczew> but if itsn't able, you need to do merge
[01:06] <stochastic> ?? if it isn't able?
[01:06] <jdong> stochastic: even in general that's arguably the more courteous/proper way of getting it done unless it's direly urgent to get the new version into Ubuntu
[01:08] <ScottK> ari-tczew: Even better than merging is getting the Ubuntu diff into Debian and then asking for a sync
[01:11] <ari-tczew> ScottK: yes I know about it
[01:12] <ari-tczew> this method make management more comfortable in future (only syncs request without any changes)
[01:12] <ScottK> ari-tczew: It's not a point of comfort, but of effeiciency.  If we don't get our stuff back into Debian and just merge, it's more work for us.
[01:12] <jgoppert_> how do we give a package to debian? they don't really have the ppa system setup yet do they? Is there a motu group over there that you have to get in touch with?
[01:13] <ScottK> jgoppert_: It depends on the package, but if you look at mentors.debian.net, they have a sponsorship process.
[01:13] <ScottK> Also if you work on a package with a team maintainer in Debian, you can often contact that team and get stuff back into Debian
[01:14] <ari-tczew> ScottK: if I send package to mentors.debian.net, do I need to wait for response from orginal maintainer? I'm asking about NMU.
[01:14] <ScottK> ari-tczew: If it's an existing package, you need to work with the maintainer first
[01:15] <ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers for more details
[01:15] <ari-tczew> OK, I'll learn about it leater.
[01:16]  * stochastic politely grumbles about debian worrying about their own external health...
[01:17] <jgoppert_> wish debian and ubuntu would just merge and get it over with
[01:17] <ari-tczew> I think that I'll upload more packages than in karmic's cycle with good co-operation with sponsors.
[01:18] <ScottK> ari-tczew: Perhaps set a goal to become a sponsor during this cycle.
[01:18] <ScottK> jgoppert_: Not possible.   Different goals.
[01:19] <jgoppert_> http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+debian
[01:19] <jgoppert_> Yeah, but can't everyone just get along we'd have more development in the same direction
[01:20] <ari-tczew> ScottK: It would be nice!
[01:20] <StevenK> jgoppert_: No, they can't, it's the nature of large, distributed projects.
[01:20] <ari-tczew> If I'll learn about forwarding packages to Debian, I'll request candidate to MOTU.
[01:20] <ScottK> jgoppert_: If only there weren't actual people involved, sure.
[01:21] <ajmitch> people suck, nothing new there
[01:24] <stochastic> If debian and ubuntu's bug tracking and package uploading worked closer together, then ubuntu developers woudn't have to re-learn everything to make their contributions to debian
[01:24] <jgoppert_> ok ok.. i used to love debian, but was soo much work, so do you guys just run a virtual machine and do your work there?
[01:25] <ScottK> That or work in a chroot.
[01:25] <jgoppert_> well i've got some gui stuff so probably would want to double check it was actually functional
[01:25] <ari-tczew> question: Do I need to join first MOTU, then join ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[01:26] <ScottK> stochastic: Package uploading it pretty much identical.  It's just where you point the package.
[01:26] <ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes
[01:27] <stochastic> ScottK, but why can't I just point it to a single place and both projects look at it?
[01:27] <ari-tczew> OK, thanks ScottK for information.
[01:28] <stochastic> ScottK, or request a package upgrade in one place and have the .dsc file considered by both debian and ubuntu
[01:31] <directhex> stochastic, things get... confusing... if one of the two distros rejects your package for some reason, e.g. there was a bug in it
[01:31] <directhex> you end up with packages with the same version number, but different content
[01:31] <directhex> it's awkward enough when the source packages are incompatible between distros (different md5sum)
[01:33] <jgoppert_> should my data files be installed as uvsim-data with arch=all?
[01:34] <stochastic> directhex, true, there are challenges, but the systems are very disparate from an initial user's view.  Why can't I log into the debian bug tracker with my lauchpad account, or check a box to have it duplicated in debian's tracker, etc...
[01:34] <directhex> stochastic, it would be nice to be able to mangle debian bugs from launchpad
[01:35] <directhex> stochastic, but they ARE disparate. debian has its own infrastructure which it's built up over about 17 years
[01:36] <stochastic> well then launchpad should integrate with them.
[01:36] <stochastic> I'm just wishing, not really expecting change overnight
[01:50] <jgoppert_> to install my doxygen documenation do i just put doc/html/* in the debian/doc file?
[02:00] <jgoppert_> what does this mean? E: uvsim source: not-binnmuable-any-depends-all uvsim-apps -> uvsim-data
[02:02] <directhex> jgoppert_, binnmu is a debian-only problem.
[02:03] <jgoppert_> it resulted from uvsim-app Depends: uvsim-data (= ${binary:Version})
[02:03] <jgoppert_> i just wiped the binary:Version part out is that the right thing to do?
[02:09] <jgoppert_> no queue now on the build farm, so much better than a week ago
[02:11] <cody-somerville> jgoppert_, you can run lintian -i on your package to get a verbose description of problems
[02:11] <jgoppert_> thanks
[02:11] <ScottK> stochastic: Lots of reasons.  To start with the different maintenance model.  Ubuntu team maintenance and Debian individual maintainers don't align well.
[02:15] <jgoppert_> on my sf project i setup doxygen to build but didn't put the html in my tarball, so i added the doxygen build command to the build section of the rules file, is that pretty standard?
[02:20] <ScottK> jgoppert_: Yes.  We need to be able to build everything from the source.
[02:21] <wgrant> Your tarball should contain source. Doxygen output doesn't sound like source.
[02:23] <jgoppert_> cool, that's what i did
[03:56] <stochastic> I'm trying to build a debian unstable pbuilder environment, but using this pbuilderrc file: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/314790/  It gives me the error  Failed getting release file http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/dists/sid/Release
[03:57] <dtchen> err, /ubuntu/dists/sid *would* be invalid
[03:58] <ScottK> stochastic: Install ubuntu-dev-tools and then do pbuilder-dist sid create
[04:02] <stochastic> ScottK, thanks, I had been doing pbuilder create --distribution sid
[04:03] <ScottK> pbuilder-dist can make it a lot easier.
[04:13] <cody-somerville> this is my .pbuilrrc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/314802/
[04:13] <cody-somerville> works great
[04:27] <LucidFox> http://sandrotosi.blogspot.com/2009/11/things-that-make-me-angry.html
[04:27] <LucidFox> o_O
[04:28] <jdong> directhex: very cool to see Mono getting a compacting GC!
[04:29] <dtchen> LucidFox: I'm pretty sure Mez referenced that blog post, too
[04:32] <LucidFox> Yes, on Planet Ubuntu. That's where I found it.
[04:32] <ScottK> LucidFox: There were a number of reactions on planet.debian too.  None particularly supportive.
[04:50] <LucidFox> On a tangentially-related note...
[04:50] <LucidFox> I noticed that when my package is sponsored into Debian, a binary package for amd64 is always uploaded, even though I only uploaded the source package to mentors.
[04:51] <LucidFox> Is it the sponsor who builds the binary package?
[04:52] <JonyBlaze> how can i make pbuilder-dist not generate packages owned by root
[04:52] <ScottK> LucidFox: Yes.
[04:53] <JonyBlaze> pbuilder w/o -dist doesnt
[04:53] <ScottK> LucidFox: Debian always does binary uploads.  This way they know stuff at least built once before upload.
[04:57] <wgrant> ScottK: They do not know that.
[04:57] <wgrant> ScottK: They know that somehow on the uploader's system a binary package was produced.
[04:57] <ScottK> wgrant: Well that's the theory.
[04:57] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:57] <ScottK> I think source uplaods are better.
[04:58] <ScottK> The Debian way often misses build-depends because people don't build in a clean chroot.
[04:59] <ScottK> My favorite was one package (don't recall which) where the username of the Debian maintainer was hard coded into the path used in one of the maintainer scripts.  It could only build on his system
[05:00] <RAOF> That's awesome!
[05:01] <LucidFox> Ehehehe
[05:01] <LucidFox> But mentors.debian.net is supposed to hold source uploads, right?
[05:09] <jdong> WHOOO!
[05:09] <jdong> I managed to fill a btrfs FS to 94.5%
[05:10] <ScottK> LucidFox: Yes
[05:10] <ScottK> jdong: How'd the exam go?
[05:10] <jdong> ScottK: oh almost certainly failed.
[05:11] <ScottK> So as predicted.
[05:11] <jdong> I might have understood the first question :)
[05:11] <jdong> that's an accomplishment.
[05:11]  * ScottK remembers exams like that
[05:11] <ScottK> Vaguely.
[05:11] <ScottK> It was a long time ago
[05:14] <ScottK> OK, first pass through my merges is done.  15 syncs.  5 more that will be once depends are sorted.  3 more that will be once Debian stuff in progress is done, and 3 actual merges.
[05:15] <ScottK> That may be my best sync ratio so far.
[05:15] <wgrant> ScottK: But Ubuntu doesn't give anything back, remember...
[05:15] <ScottK> wgrant: Well yeah.  Except all this crap.
[05:16] <ScottK> A fair fraction of those were just pulled from Debian patches that the maintainer hadn't dealt with.
[05:16] <wgrant> Ah.
[05:16] <ScottK> One I had bbdebian sponsor a QA upload for me.
[05:17] <ScottK> The rest were properly sent back to them.
[05:17] <ScottK> Oh, one I'm the maintainer in Debian, but it was close to release so I just uploaded.
[05:23] <ScottK> wgrant: Also one of the three uploads was reportbug where it's pretty unavoidable.
[05:24] <serialorder> Every time I build a package I keep getting this difference in debian/control : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/314836/
[05:25] <serialorder> it is due to the @GNOME@ in control.in and I am wondering if this is something I should be concerned with or ignore?  the diff is between the debian package and the ubuntu package I merged with it
[05:27] <LucidFox> Oh, packages.qa.debian.org now shows the version in NEW.
[05:32] <serialorder> nobody?
[05:33] <wgrant> serialorder: Ignore it.
[05:33] <wgrant> serialorder: It's crazy GNOME packaging stuff.
[05:34] <wgrant> And is of no concern beyond that implicit in having automatically generated control file.
[05:34] <wgrant> +s
[05:34] <serialorder> i didn't add that, I just worked on the morge ;)
[05:35] <wgrant> Right.
[05:35] <serialorder> merge*
[05:38] <serialorder> ok second question, sometimes if the merge is simple and it is only going to take a short amount of time I will work on the merge before posting the bug report
[05:39] <serialorder> then I end up in this annoying situation where I have to post the bug report, find out the big number, go back and edit the diff to include it and post a second comment actually including the attachments
[05:39] <serialorder> is there a less tedious way to do that?
[05:54] <ScottK> serialorder: Become a MOTU so you can just upload it and not bother with the bug.  Short of that, no.
[05:54] <serialorder> ScottK, i am working on it
[05:55] <ScottK> :-)
[05:58] <LucidFox> eglibc # james_w, don't want it slipping in by mistake
[05:58] <LucidFox> I take Ubuntu isn't going to migrate to eglibc anytime soon?
[05:59] <ScottK> LucidFox: Already did.
[05:59] <RAOF> Hasn't it already?
[05:59] <LucidFox> ...Oh.
[05:59] <dtchen> yes, it has.
[06:20] <nxvl> ScottK: around?
[06:20] <ScottK> nxvl: Barely
[06:20] <nxvl> ScottK: Just commented on Bug #413252
[06:20] <nxvl> i can't reproduce it
[06:20] <nxvl> have you?
[06:22] <ScottK> nxvl: No.  I didn't try.  Based on that and the Debian bug it seemed pretty clear.  Did you have maildrop installed before you intalled courier-base?
[06:34] <nxvl> ScottK: nope
[06:34] <nxvl> ScottK: i knew there was some other package i was missing
[06:34] <nxvl> trying
[06:37] <serialorder> apt-get source package grabs from karmic is there a way to get lucid source in a similar way?
[06:38] <nxvl> serialorder: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/package_name
[06:38] <serialorder> thanx nxvl
[06:41] <serialorder> nxvl,  bzr branch lp:ubuntu/lucid/tracker gives me error tracker in lucid has no default branch.
[06:41] <nxvl> serialorder: let me check
[06:41] <nxvl> yeah, it hasn't been bzrized
[06:42] <nxvl> serialorder: you will need to download it from launchpad
[06:42] <nxvl> serialorder: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker
[06:42] <serialorder> ok so when does the method you mentioned first work?
[06:43] <nxvl> serialorder: we are moving everything to bzr branches, but is still work in progress
[06:43] <serialorder> oh ok
[06:43] <nxvl> serialorder: most of the package have already branches, but some of them aren't still bzrized, i think for DIF we will have all the archive in bzr
[06:43] <nxvl> but i'm being optimist
[06:43] <siretart> serialorder: most probably the importer failed to import the package. you can try yourself with 'bzr import-dsc'
[06:44] <nxvl> serialorder: where do you live? as in country
[06:44] <ScottK> serialorder: Or you edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to have the deb-src lines point to lucid.
[06:44] <serialorder> US
[06:45] <nxvl> oh, then probably you won't overlap much, but if you are still here in 2 hours, james_w will probably be around and you can ask him more about the bzr thing
[06:45] <nxvl> serialorder: oh yeah, what ScottK said will work too
[06:45] <serialorder> hopefully i will be asleep in 2 hours =)
[06:46] <nxvl> ScottK: btw, did you got more info about the universe going away plans?
[06:46] <nxvl> ScottK: i'm REALLY confused about ti
[06:46] <nxvl> it*
[06:46] <serialorder> ScottK, i think that will do the trick
[06:46] <ScottK> nxvl: Did you see my mail to the MOTU list about the spec item for UDS?
[06:46] <nxvl> i'm even doubting on applying to core-dev because of it
[06:46] <nxvl> ScottK: subscribed already
[06:47] <nxvl> ScottK: and will be there if it doesn't overlap with any session i'm running
[06:47] <ScottK> OK.
[06:48] <ScottK> We'll get it figured out.
[06:48] <nxvl> i was just courios if you got any more infor on that, because there is not much around
[06:48] <ScottK> nxvl: I mostly know from reading specs and tech board meetings.
[06:48] <ScottK> It's not entirely clear.
[06:49] <nxvl> yeah, that's what i mean
[06:49] <nxvl> ther eisn't something really clear on the topic
[06:49] <nxvl> i kinda like the idea, since we have had problems in the past because of the motu/core-dev separation, but things should be clearer
[06:50] <nxvl> (i.e. kde guys applying for motuship and complains about non-kde people that they have no idea who he is)
[06:51] <ScottK> Same thing with Server Team people and sometimes ubuntu-desktop people.
[06:52] <nxvl> yeah
[06:52] <nxvl> i just mentioned kde as an example
[06:52] <nxvl> but it's really s/kde/specific-team/
[06:52] <ScottK> Yep.
[06:52] <nxvl> well, time to go to bed
[06:52] <nxvl> read you tomorrow
[06:53] <nxvl> ugn, apt hasn't finished running
[06:53] <nxvl> ugh*
[06:58] <dtchen> slytherin: yes, there are known issues with ppc and sound anomalies, but no more so than other arches
[06:58] <dtchen> slytherin: if you're trying to debug this on Ubuntu (no KDE, Xfce, etc.), you should try PULSE_NO_SIMD=1
[06:58] <slytherin> dtchen: Ok. So should I file a bug or leave it?
[06:58] <slytherin> I will try tonight
[06:59] <nxvl> ScottK: was able to reproduce the bug
[06:59] <dtchen> slytherin: if in doubt, always file a new bug
[06:59] <ScottK> Ah.  Good.
[06:59] <nxvl> ScottK: it was indeed maildrop
[07:00] <ScottK> nxvl: OK.  Then sound like the patch is the right thing to do.
[07:00] <slytherin> dtchen: ok
[07:01] <nxvl> ScottK: will do tomorrow, need to sleep now :D
[07:01] <ScottK> Sure thing
[07:46] <LucidFox> What's a symbols file, and where can I read more about it?
[07:59] <siretart`> LucidFox: have you read dpkg-gensymbols(1)?
[08:02]  * LucidFox reads
[08:04] <\sh> moins
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:04] <siretart`> hi dholbach!
[08:05]  * porthose_ tips his hat
[08:05] <dholbach> hi porthose_, siretart`, \sh
[08:08] <ajmitch> hi
[08:10]  * LucidFox takes extra care to type "dput mentors" rather than "dput ubuntu"
[08:44] <Laney> good morning one and allk
[08:49] <stefanlsd> morning!
[09:06] <Rhonda> Hi there. :)  I wonder, how long is it expected to take until the CoC 1.1 will appear on launchpad.net/codeofconduct?
[09:07] <av`> Rhonda, hi, I guess this a #launchpad question :)
[09:08] <Rhonda> Ah, didn't know about that channel, and given that MOTUs have to sign it ...  ;)
[09:08] <av`> yes, actually all Ubuntu Members should have it signed but the last time I signed it was like 2 years ago, so no new version is out yet
[09:09] <av`> Rhonda,  The  current version is 1.0.1, released 2005-04-12
[09:10] <Rhonda> I got the impression after mako's blog about the new version that it should already be up, or at least is expected to be there soon.
[09:10] <Rhonda> av`: Yes, and that's the one I have issues with, that's why I'm waiting for 1.1 :)
[09:11] <av`> Rhonda, I see 1.1 was approved already by the CC on the 20th of October
[09:11] <Rhonda> I know that. :)
[09:12] <av`> Rhonda, maybe someone forgot to update the LP page, worth asking on #launchpad, maybe with the ppl being busy for the release they left that out :)
[09:13] <Rhonda> Dropped my message there already. ;)
[09:13] <Rhonda> ... thanks to your notice.
[09:14] <av`> np, let me know the progress on it
[09:14] <wgrant> Nobody told LP about it.
[09:14] <av`> that's why then :)
[09:14] <wgrant> It will probably not be on LP until 3.1.11 (2009-12-05), unless somebody makes a pretty compelling case for its necessity.
[09:15] <Rhonda> wgrant: That some people have issues with the old CoC and won't sign it isn't compelling enough?
[09:16] <wgrant> Rhonda: Well, it has been that way for nearly five years now. Another three weeks shouldn't make terribly much difference.
[09:17] <Rhonda> ... combined with that the old version only spoke of developers and not of community members as a whole, belittling other contributors than code contributors.
[09:19] <av`> Rhonda, it's already approved so it's just an issue of having it on LP, so you can start contributing since the old CoC will become obsolete
[09:20] <Rhonda> av`: Unfortunately not because that would require the signed CoC.
[09:20] <Rhonda> AIUI
[09:21] <av`> well, having it signed is needed if you are going to join the developers / members teams, but that require some months to happen usually, so nobody prevents you to start contributing now since in three weeks it will be uploaded into LP
[09:22] <av`> you stated that you will sign the latest CoC so it's fine IMHO
[09:22] <Rhonda> av`: Besides, I already did a fair amount of bug handling over time without having it signed anyway, if that's what you want to suggest. :)
[09:23] <av`> yeah, so who prevents you to start doing what have you planned to do
[09:24] <Rhonda> Applying for motu might be the next step on my agenda. ;)
[09:24] <Rhonda> Or upload right for a subset of packages from what persia suggested to me. And AIUI that also requires the signed CoC.
[09:24] <av`> I didnt see your name into the queues yet, so you can start preparing some updates / debdiffs if you didnt already
[09:25] <av`> e.g you need several sponsors talking about your work positively before applying
[09:26] <persia> Well, no, one needs several endorsements.  Whether those are sponsors or not is only tangentially relevant.
[09:27] <av`> persia, sponsors + several uploads done I would say
[09:28] <persia> av`: Several uploads done to fix LP bugs, yes (but take a look at the e.g. wesnoth changelog).  For people who have other ways to get stuff into the archive, sponsors are more optional.
[09:29] <av`> persia, sure, I was telling how it generally work for 'normal' ppl ;)
[09:29] <persia> Oh, sure.  I agree with you for most cases :)
[09:29] <sebner> huhi persia, long time no see .. everything fine? =)
[09:29] <Rhonda> Technically I still prefer to fix stuff inside Debian for Ubuntu too so all involved parties do benefit from it. :)
[09:30] <persia> sebner: Just painfully busy, but that should be over soon.
[09:30] <sebner> persia: sounds great :)
[09:30]  * Rhonda still tries to come up with a way to get away with the ubuntu irssi diff, but that's unfortunately a bit more complicate.
[09:31] <Rhonda> Anyway, off to a meeting. :)
[09:34] <LucidFox> Rhonda!
[09:34] <LucidFox> Good to see you here. :)
[09:55] <directhex> Rhonda, can you show me your debian/rules snippet for the irssi diff? we could use that for some other packages
[10:02] <persia> directhex: There isn't one: see http://patches.ubuntu.com/i/irssi/irssi_0.8.14-1ubuntu1.patch
[10:03]  * LucidFox looks at REVU and weeps.
[10:03] <LucidFox> The first 17 packages are for Jaunty.
[10:05] <directhex> persia, oh... :/
[10:05] <persia> directhex: There are packages that *do* have such snippets.  Usually based on /etc/lsb-release or something.
[10:05] <LucidFox> I'm not sure what to do with all the old packages on REVU.
[10:07] <directhex> persia, yeah, lsb_release munging, i use that... but not for applying patches
[10:08] <julez> LucidFox: I have a few low-priority packages that I update every 6 months ... perhaps the good thing to do would be to advocate them ? :P anyway I'll have to update them for lucid now
[10:08] <persia> LucidFox: I generally just reviewed them if they were up for review, regardless of age, and nuked them if there was no response to a review for 3 months.
[10:08] <persia> julez: Updating soonest would likely get REVU scanners more excited :)
[10:09] <julez> I share the fault though, not advertising them that much
[10:40] <Rhonda> LucidFox: You know that you always could have pestered me in other places, too. ;)
[10:40] <LucidFox> I do know.
[10:41] <LucidFox> Still, glad to see you here.
[10:41] <Rhonda> directhex: That's what I meant with "unfortunately a bit more complicate" - not there yet. :)
[10:41] <LucidFox> julez> Update them for lucid and ping me here!
[10:42] <julez> LucidFox: thank you, as soon as I can :)
[10:43] <LucidFox> When karmic development started, I reviewed the oldest packages on REVU and put them all on "needs work", pointing out other problems besides the distribution.
[10:43] <LucidFox> If there were any
[11:25] <fcuk112> looking for stuff to do...
[11:25] <persia> fcuk112: What sort of stuff do you like to do?
[11:26] <fcuk112> fix bugs, packaging
[11:26] <fcuk112> new features to existing apps perhaps.
[11:26] <persia> Any particular sort of applications that interest you more?
[11:27] <fcuk112> not really fussed.  would really like to help out with audio but it's a little out of my league i think.
[11:28] <persia> Perhaps working with applications that use audio?
[11:29] <persia> For example, there's a heap of bugs in the audacity package, which probably needs someone to look at fixing a chunk of them and otherwise triaging the rest: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacity/+bugs
[11:30] <fcuk112> that's an idea, thanks i'll take a look.
[11:30] <persia> Good luck!
[11:30] <fcuk112> :)
[11:43] <siretart`> LucidFox: thanks for your analysis
[11:43] <siretart`> LucidFox: faac has license problems anyway, see the bugtracker. for the rest, well, I totally agree to your email
[12:43] <segler> hi, how do I get an advocate for a package I uploaded to revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks for any help
[12:53] <persia> segler: Asking here is a good way (although not too often)
[12:55] <slytherin> ttx: When processing merges for packages maintained by Debian java team if the diff is really small I suggest that you file bug in Debian (or let me know so that I can file them) so that we can make it a sync.
[12:56] <nhandler> slytherin: I know that we have many Ubuntu Developers who have connections to certain packaging teams in Debian. Do you think it would be beneficial to have a wiki page listing this information?
[12:57] <slytherin> nhandler: Surely.
[12:57] <ttx> slytherin: so far I've been committing the diff to debian-java svn
[12:57] <slytherin> ttx: That's great. I will check them and get someone to upload them.
[12:57] <ttx> slytherin: but yes, that sounds more productive
[12:58] <nhandler> slytherin: I'll create one this afternoon then when I get home (unless you feel like making it earlier)
[12:58] <ttx> slytherin: most of the fixes I commit are the -headless and default-jdk  usual suspects
[12:59] <ttx> slytherin: + some java bytecode level adjustments
[12:59] <ttx> slytherin: so that code generated matches the runtime dep
[12:59] <slytherin> ttx: They benefit Debian too. And in the end reduces maintenance overhead. :-)
[13:00] <ttx> slytherin: that's why I committed those directly
[13:01] <ttx> slytherin: We can do the commit-in-debian/sync style for the next relevant ones
[13:02] <slytherin> sure
[13:02] <c_korn> what was the command again to create sync requests ?
[13:03] <slytherin> c_korn: requestsync
[13:03] <c_korn> slytherin: thanks
[13:04]  * slytherin wonders why sun-java6 has been orphaned in Debian. :-(
[13:08] <directhex> slytherin, because it's evil non-free?
[13:08] <persia> Rather, because it's not default-jdk for any arches anymore.
[13:08] <slytherin> directhex: The reason is not explained in the bug.
[13:08] <slytherin> persia: It never was.
[13:09] <persia> slytherin: Well, in terms of package relationships, perhaps.  In terms of default java client was perhaps different.
[13:11] <slytherin> persia: I don't think so. Openjdk is still not as perfect as most users would want.
[13:12] <persia> slytherin: I think it's that it's as perfect as the ex-maintainer of sun-java6 needed it to be :)
[13:12] <slytherin> persia: ex-maintainer? You mean doko has retired?
[13:13] <persia> slytherin: I don't mean to imply anything beyond that the package is currently orphaned.
[13:14] <slytherin> hmm. May be I should add comment on bug asking why.
[13:14] <persia> No point really.
[13:14] <persia> It's not terribly hard to maintain, if you want it.  Just sign up for the right Sun mailing list, and review each of the service release updates as they come out.
[13:15] <persia> If you don't want it, no point asking :)
[13:16] <slytherin> persia: Point is that the bug should contain reason why it was orphaned. The last upload was just about a month ago.
[13:16] <persia> slytherin: And the bug filer differs from the last uploader.
[13:16] <slytherin> right
[13:17] <persia> Could ask, but maybe the answer exists at l.d.o somewhere already.
[13:17] <slytherin> I will check
[13:19] <c_korn> I want the package libjhdf5-java to be synced (http://packages.debian.org/sid/libjhdf5-java) but requestsync quits with this error: E: The package 'libjhdf5-java' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in 'sid'
[13:22] <c_korn> this is the command I used: requestsync -n -d sid --lp libjhdf5-java lucid
[13:23] <persia> c_korn: Congratulations!  You now have the opportunity to teach requestsync about contrib :)
[13:23] <slytherin> persia: that is not the reason.
[13:24] <slytherin> c_korn: requestsync needs source package name. You are using binary package name.
[13:24]  * persia stops attempting to suggest fixes for tools never used
[13:25] <slytherin> c_korn: And in lucid the syncs should happen from squueze (testing) instead of sid (unstable) unless you have very string reason for sync from sid.
[13:25] <slytherin> /string/strong
[13:28] <c_korn> slytherin: ok. I have already files another sync request (bug 479981). should I mark it as invalid and reopen it for squeeze ?
[13:29] <persia> c_korn: Probably easier just to change the title/description
[13:29] <slytherin> c_korn: probably mark it incomplete until package makes into testing.
[13:38] <c_korn> slytherin: ok, done.
[14:13] <bdrung> asac: how about putting m-d under the hood of the debian mozilla team?
[14:14] <asac> bdrung: the debian mozillateam is a-no-team
[14:14] <bdrung> asac: what's a a-no-team?
[14:14] <asac> a no-team ;)
[14:15] <bdrung> asac: how can a team be a no-team?
[14:15] <asac> consider you going in a room with a label "team" with a bunch of folks and noone working in a team ... thats a no-team
[14:16] <asac> so no. i think the right place is to put it in ubuntu
[14:16] <asac> basically ubuntu is the only place where you will be able to maintain things like this in a team. noone wants to do serious mozilla stuff in debian. and debian even has no user base so you dont even get feedback there
[14:16] <segler> i just made a new upload addressing the comments on revo. so I'm asking if somebody could review it: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks in advance
[14:18] <asac> i was long enough on debian side only to compare ... and all i see is that in debian a mozillateam does not work
[14:18] <bdrung> asac: can you leave a comment on http://glandium.org/blog/?p=495 ?
[14:18] <asac> no
[14:18] <asac> you should not start discussing things with mike on debian/ubuntu relation
[14:18] <asac> he hates ubuntu
[14:19] <bdrung> so it will only lead to a bike shed
[14:19] <asac> ubuntu is the big evil thing in the world ...
[14:19] <asac> yes
[14:19] <bdrung> k
[14:20] <asac> i tried to engange with him for a long time ... send him patches for years ... all worth nothing
[14:20] <asac> what he did first thing when i moved to ubuntu was to drop his patch system ;)
[14:20] <asac> so ubuntu cannot reuse his work ... and extract patches easily
[14:20] <bdrung> :)
[14:20] <asac> not sure if he finally pushes his private git branch somewhere
[14:20] <jdong> heh
[14:20] <asac> but he didnt do that for the first years at least
[14:21] <jdong> seems like the debian-Ubuntu flames are reigniting
[14:21] <asac> no i dont flame
[14:21] <siretart`> what is d-m?
[14:21] <asac> just explain the situation
[14:21] <asac> mozilla-devscripts
[14:21] <bdrung> that's sad. free software is about collaboration.
[14:22]  * jdong nods
[14:22] <bdrung> siretart: dm is 'deutsche mark' :p
[14:22] <siretart`> I see
[14:22] <asac> hehe
[14:22] <asac> dm is debian maintainer ;)
[14:22] <siretart`> jaja :)
[14:22] <slytherin> are patches in debian/patches directory applied before clean target is run during a build?
[14:23] <asac> no ... they are unapplied (if the build system is a bit sane)
[14:23] <asac> not sure i understand your question ;)
[14:24] <persia> slytherin: Check debian/rules.  If clean: depends on patch: it does.  If it doesn't, it doesn't (not doing so is more common)
[14:24] <slytherin> asac: There is a problem in the clean target itself. I have created a patch to fix it. But apparently the patch is not getting applied.
[14:24] <jdong> I always thought one should depend on unpatch in the clean target.
[14:25] <siretart`> jdong: that approach breaks if you patch the upstream build system and rely on your patches during cleanup
[14:25] <jdong> siretart`: ah, right
[14:25] <jdong> I've fortunately not encountered that level of brokenness yet ;-)
[14:26]  * siretart` can't await the dpkg version 3 source level format
[14:27] <jdong> what's new/different in version 3 exactly?
[14:27] <siretart`> quilt is integrated, you don't have to care about patch system integration anymore
[14:27] <jdong> ah
[14:28] <Rhonda> jdong: And you don't need to uuencode binary changes anymore, it's not a .diff.gz but a debian.tar.gz
[14:28] <slytherin> persia: So should I add the dependency on patch?
[14:29] <jdong> whoo! now that's cool :)
[14:29] <Rhonda> Also, it finally allows orig.tar.bz2
[14:29] <siretart`> even multiple
[14:30]  * jdong nods
[14:30]  * Rhonda thinks of converting wesnoth to v3 rather sooner than later.
[14:30] <Rhonda> Upstream ships .bz2 :)
[14:30] <jdong> where's the best place to look for info about this?
[14:31] <persia> slytherin: If you want to apply all the patches before clean.  If you just want to apply one, do it in the clean: rule, and unapply it when you're done.
[14:31] <Rhonda> I think madduck aggregated some blog articles about it.
[14:31] <slytherin> persia: I guess I will apply only one.
[14:32] <bdrung> siretart: when will it be supported by Ubuntu?
[14:32] <siretart`> bdrung: ubuntu supports it actually for ages. launchpad support is finished but not deployed yet. will come with the next launchpad release
[14:34] <persia> So 5th December?
[14:34] <bdrung> siretart: for ages? is version 3 that old?
[14:34] <siretart`> bdrung: see the dpkg changelog
[14:35] <siretart`> bdrung: it was included in debian lenny
[14:36] <Rhonda> bdrung: It has to be supported in a stable release to be able to get used for the upcoming reason because the build daemons obviously run stable and shouldn't break. :)
[14:36]  * Rhonda . o O ( ... like it happened with the "Breaks:" control field addition, interestingly )
[14:44] <RoAkSoAx> Hey guys quick question, what would the equivalent of using binary-post-install/package in debian/rules be if I use dh7?
[15:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:25] <sebner> huhu bddebian
[15:31] <bddebian> Heya sebner
[15:40] <RoAkSoAx> Hey guys quick question, what would the equivalent of using binary-post-install/package in debian/rules be if I use dh7?
[16:43] <janneh> hello
[16:44] <janneh> i'm wondering, why is rsnapshot in ubuntu/debian such an old version? it is still 1.3.0 although 1.3.1 is out since a very long time
[16:45] <janneh> are no people using it? if not, why not? is there any better/newer alternative that does the same thing, i.e. hard-link based incremental backup over rsync
[16:45] <Laney> because nobody has done the update yet
[16:45] <Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=548966
[16:46] <Laney> RoAkSoAx: Override some appropriate debhelper command to do what you want
[16:47] <janneh> i am not new to linux but have not really delved very deeply into the packaging etc... do you think this might be a project that I could pursue?
[16:47] <Laney> it might be hard to do right
[16:48] <Laney> the right way is to mail the Debian maintainer and work with him to get it done
[16:48] <janneh> hmm ok.
[16:49] <Laney> give it a go if you are so inclined
[16:49] <Laney> we can help you with any questions
[16:49] <janneh> k i'll probably do that then :)
[16:50] <janneh> but before i'd put any work in it: still wondering why nobody apparently was interested in updating it... maybe there's better software nowadays?
[16:51] <Laney> check popcon to see how many people use it
[16:51] <Laney> I suspect it's a reasonably significant number
[16:54] <janneh> thx... how do i interpret the results? sorry, i've never used popcon... also the debian and ubuntu popcon pages seem very different, which one to use?
[16:55] <Laney> either, both
[16:56] <Laney> they tell you how many people who have opted in to the popcon system install (inst) and use (vote) the package
[16:57] <janneh> k.. well ok at least i see that more people use rsnapshot than dirvish (also a rsync based backup software)
[16:58] <janneh> i'll just contact the maintainer and see from there. thanks Laney
[17:05] <jdong> kees: can I get your opinion on bug 401028?
[17:06] <jdong> IMO it's in the category of remotely triggerable DoS
[17:06] <jdong> (do you want this handled in -security or as a universe SRU?)
[17:06] <kees> jdong: agreed, though we don't tend to give a lot of priority to client application crashes like that.  I'm fine with it going through SRU.
[17:07] <jdong> kees: ok, thanks for your input :)
[17:07] <kees> jdong: np
[17:21] <RoAkSoAx> Laney, yeah but if with cdbs i use binary-post-install/package::, in dh7 would I override install: or is there a post-install rule?
[17:35] <Laney> RoAkSoAx: Not as such, just add a rule override_dh_install: dh_install\nblah blah
[17:37] <RoAkSoAx> ok cool thanks Laney :)
[17:44] <RoAkSoAx> Laney, btw.. where can I find the documentation about dh7?
[17:44] <RoAkSoAx> (besides the manpages offcourse)
[17:44] <Laney> erm
[17:44] <Laney> where can I find the documentation besides the place with the documentation?
[17:44] <Laney> man dh
[18:22] <mmmiiikkkeee> hi, I am trying to setup DebootstrapChroot acording to the wiki page, but it seems that some thing is messed up with my chroot's home directory.  if i type cd it get: "bash: cd: /home/mike: No such file or directory". why does root not cd to /root?
[19:18] <RoAkSoAx> is there any wikipage on creating -dev packages?
[20:30] <segler> hi, I changed a revu package according to comments, could somebody take a look on it? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks in advance
[21:08] <nxvl> ScottK: the patch fixes the problem, just tested
[21:09] <nxvl> ScottK: uploading to proposed
[21:10] <ScottK> nxvl: Great.  jdong^^^ Can you ack this?  nxvl: what's the bug number again?
[21:10] <ScottK> nxvl: Upload it to Lucid too
[21:12] <nxvl> ScottK: yup, i will do the merge aswell
[21:12] <ScottK> Great.
[21:12] <nxvl> ScottK: LP: #413252
[21:13] <ScottK> nxvl: Once jdong ack's it, I can accept it.
[21:13] <nxvl> \o/
[21:14] <ScottK> YokoZar: I finally hit a nice wine use case for me.  Someone sent me an encrypted self extracting zip file (exe) and wine handled it just fine.  Thanks.
[21:17] <nxvl> btw
[21:17] <nxvl> YokoZar: does iTunes works in wine?
[21:19] <adama> anyone experienced with packaging largish webapps?
[22:41] <lfaraone> superm1: Hi, I'm preping a merge of the most recent electricsheep package from debian, and I can't seem to understand the patch that changes `char *splash_prefix = PACKAGE_DATA_DIR "/electricsheep"` to `char *splash_prefix = "/usr/share/electricsheep/electricsheep"`. Don't the values both evaluate to the same thing?
[22:42] <superm1> lfaraone, did i touch electric sheep some time back?  I certainly don't recall if so...
[22:42] <lfaraone> superm1:  -- Mario Limonciello <<EMAIL_ADDRESS> Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:02:21 -0400
[22:42] <superm1> lfaraone, but assuming PACKAGE_DATA_DIR is being substituted in somewhere via a define, then yeah that should work out the same
[22:43] <superm1> you'll want to double check
[22:43] <lfaraone> superm1: mk, well the current package doesn't work either, so it can't possibly get much worse :P
[22:43] <superm1> ah i remember touching it way back when. it was certainly functional at that point
[22:44] <superm1> too bad it's since broken
[22:44] <lfaraone> superm1: I think it is a server issue or something odd, but the new upstream release works fine.
[23:00] <lfaraone> Hm. If a package was uploaded in August to Debian (as NEW), and it still isn't in Lucid, should I check to see if there's a reason it wasn't synced?
[23:00] <lfaraone> There aren't any bug reports about it on LP
[23:02] <RAOF> lfaraone: Has it migrated to debian testing yet?
[23:07] <quidnunc> Can anyone explain to me how to fix a compilation error of the type describe herein<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:11] <dtchen> quidnunc: see -ldl
[23:12] <RAOF> Oh, of course it's in there.  I was going to grep /usr/lib for those strings :)
[23:13] <quidnunc> dtchen: That should be in LDFLAGS?
[23:14] <dtchen> err, certainly not
[23:15] <dtchen> the library that references them needs it
[23:28] <quidnunc> dtchen: So the compiled library (libbfd.a) is broken?
[23:36] <lfaraone> RAOF: yes.
[23:36] <lfaraone> /https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/198136
[23:36] <lfaraone> oops, wrong channel.
[23:43] <quidnunc> dtchen: Never mind, I got it. Thanks for your help.
[23:55] <pbryan> I've been maintaining a handy PPA package for a while, and it occurs to me, it would be handy to have available in Universe. What type of hoops could I expect to be made to jump through to make such a thing happen?
[23:56] <directhex> !revu
[23:57] <pbryan> directhex: Thanks.


 ;P
[14:26] <markjones> anyway, brobostigon has been wanting to discuss ideas, I've asked him to write them down and we can discuss them at the next Google+ hangout.
[14:28] <markjones> secondly, I am moving from Oxford in 2 - 3 weeks up north, in that time I'm going to meet up with brobostigon proper in Banbury, but we're thinking would you be interested in coming and meeting us somewhere up north at some point when brobostigon is in Rhyl?
[14:28] <ianto> ok i have to go now
[14:29] <markjones> (the poor lad's going to have IRC pings aplenty)
[14:29] <markjones> oi!
[14:29] <markjones> that wasn't a yes/no answer :(
[14:29] <ianto> Yes
[18:13]  * brobostigon returneth, with  beer and chinese curry.
[18:13] <brobostigon> :)


[03:47] <billmania> Where can I find ubuntu Server 16.04 for the Radxa Rock Pro, or the procedure for assembling an image for the Radxa?


[09:02] <Kilos> hi elfy  and everyone else
[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:01] <caribou> o/
[15:02] <robru> hi
[15:02] <chiluk> o/
[15:03] <cyphermox> hello!
[15:03] <barry> i guess slangasek is still stuck in his meeting?
[15:04]  * slangasek waves
[15:05] <jodh> o/
[15:05] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 15:05:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lighting round
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
[15:05] <slangasek> cyphermox infinity bdmurray stgraber sil2100 caribou mvo doko barry jodh slangasek robru
[15:05] <cyphermox> I win!
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * moar grub2 triage
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * discussions with Tony on how to deal with NM>ofono bugs.
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * discussion on versioning for NM with phone overlay
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * debugging NM routing bug; almost done (still has an extra no-metric network route)
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * Monday was a national holiday
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * grub2 cherry-picks (in debian git)
[15:06] <cyphermox>    * Fix handling of --disk-module option (debian 746596, bug 1309735)
[15:06] <cyphermox>    * Fix double-free of LV names for mdraid (bug 1330963)
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * debug grub2-signed chaining when multiple bootable media are available (bug 1097570)
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * considering merging tzsetup:
[15:06] <cyphermox>    - looked at it, reviewed server oem setup
[15:06] <cyphermox> (done)
[15:08] <slangasek> no infinity?
[15:08] <slangasek> bdmurray:
[15:08] <bdmurray> modified errors to reduce number of releases shown in legend so we can see more of it
[15:08] <bdmurray> modified daisy to log more information when encountering a MaximumRetryException
[15:08] <bdmurray> call regarding assets.ubuntu.com and errors.u.c use of it
[15:08] <bdmurray> worked with pitti / jibel regarding autopkg tests for utopic being in progress
[15:08] <bdmurray> worked on launchpad ddeb grabbing in apport
[15:08] <bdmurray> talked to ci about boottest failures for vivid and proposed-migration
[15:08] <bdmurray> tested whoopsie on wily live cd
[15:08] <bdmurray> investigation into python-pip - LP: #1324391
[15:08] <bdmurray> overrode python-pip regressions for phased updater
[15:08] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:09] <sil2100> No stgraber?
[15:10] <caribou> ODS I suppose ?
[15:10] <stgraber> sorry, around
[15:10] <sil2100> o/
[15:10] <stgraber> I've been doing LXD stuff all this time, well, that and sprinting and vacation.
[15:10] <stgraber> (done)
[15:10] <sil2100> \o/
[15:10] <sil2100> This week more or less:
[15:10] <sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
[15:10] <sil2100> - Created a list of channels as per the new channel rearrangements
[15:10] <sil2100> - Synced the new info to the developer.ubuntu.com channel webpage
[15:10] <sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
[15:10] <sil2100> - Preparations for OTA-4
[15:10] <sil2100> - Updating various parts of the landing documentation
[15:10] <sil2100> - CI Train development:
[15:10] <sil2100>   * Fixed syncing code to work for the new landing schemas
[15:10] <sil2100>   * Started poking on possible dual-landing approaches
[15:11] <sil2100> - System-image server:
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Helped Barry with the system-image server .es alias/redirect madness
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Picked up dropped branch for keep-orphaned
[15:11] <sil2100> - Updated landing tracker scripts to stop caring about RTM
[15:11] <sil2100> - Work on enabling commitlogs once again - not finished yet
[15:11] <sil2100> - Setup William's script to auto-close RTM bugs on overlay uploads
[15:11] <sil2100> - Added modifications to the script above to e-mail changes for uploads (like to MLs)
[15:11] <sil2100> - Sent out bi-monthly status update to Alan for the EOW podcast
[15:11] <sil2100> (done)
[15:11] <caribou> Bugfix:
[15:11] <caribou>  - Squid deb proxy startup race condition (Bug: 1456662)
[15:11] <caribou>   * Found tentative solution with mvo's help. Need to talk to maas
[15:11] <caribou>      before SRU
[15:11] <caribou>  - kdump startup issues with runlevel S
[15:11] <caribou>   * CEPH startup seems to be the culprit. Still starts even before
[15:11] <caribou>      runlevel is issued
[15:12] <caribou>  - makedumpfile kernel support
[15:12] <caribou>    * Investigate "unsupported
[15:12] <caribou> kernel" messages
[15:12] <caribou> (done)
[15:14] <slangasek> and no mvo, so doko:
[15:15] <slangasek> we'll come back to doko
[15:15] <slangasek> barry:
[15:15] <barry> si: LP: #1455119; LP: #1455077; LP: #1454447; si client 3.0 (finally!) landed in wily; convert si client vcs to git
[15:16] <barry> debuntu: python-lockfile sponsorship; debian bug #785242; debian bug #785059; debian bug #785633 (still unresolved); python-cachecontrol 0.11.4-1; distlib packaging converted to git and moved to lp:~pythoneers (w/ 0.2.0-2 uploaded); DPMT git migration script work
[15:16] <barry> other: bisect dist-upgrades and discovered wily regression in unity (LP: #1456761)
[15:16] <barry> --done--
[15:17] <jodh> * upstart
[15:17] <jodh>   - Testing and process to get the fix for bug 1447756 landed for the
[15:17] <jodh>     next touch OTA. Thanks to sil2100 for all his help!
[15:17] <jodh> * snappy
[15:17] <jodh>   - Improving tests for upgrader and selftest.
[15:17] <jodh> * misc
[15:17] <jodh>   - Out Monday-Wednesday next week.
[15:17] <jodh> ???
[15:18] <slangasek> is that an end marker? :)
[15:18] <jodh> sorry, locale issues :)
[15:19] <jodh> but yes, an end marker of sorts
[15:19] <slangasek> haha, ok
[15:19] <cyphermox> jodh: move on to ascii art.
[15:19] <slangasek>  * phone work:
[15:19] <jodh> cyphermox: :D
[15:19] <slangasek>   * some work reviewing/shepherding bug #1447756
[15:19] <slangasek>   * reconfiguring the phone channels per the proposed naming scheme earlier, to coincide with the move to wily
[15:20] <slangasek>   * worked with ondra on a cache corruption bug #1455605 when a user downloads images from both public and private system-image servers
[15:20] <slangasek>   * will be rotating the signing key for system-images today
[15:20] <slangasek>   * after that, have one more round of channel renames to finish, probably not today
[15:20] <slangasek>  * off tomorrow and Monday for Memorial Day, back Tuesday
[15:20] <slangasek> (done)
[15:20] <slangasek> robru:
[15:20] <robru> CI Train spreadsheet replacement:
[15:20] <robru> * several iterations of the charm
[15:20] <robru>   - configured for apache2 reverseproxy setup
[15:20] <robru>   - setting up to launch gunicorn effectively
[15:20] <robru>   - fixed a pile of runtime permission issues
[15:20] <robru> * backported gunicorn3, python3-flask-openid, python3-openid to trusty-cat-ue
[15:20] <robru> * lp:canonical-mojo-specs
[15:20] <robru>   - tons of fiddly little work enabling and integrating new spreadsheet replacement charm
[15:20] <robru> * various landings as usual
[15:20] <robru> (done)
[15:20] <sil2100> robru: bileto looking nice so far!
[15:20] <robru> sil2100: thanks!
[15:21] <slangasek> :)
[15:21] <slangasek> alright
[15:21] <slangasek> so no infinity doko or mvo showing up
[15:21] <slangasek> any questions on the above?
[15:21] <cyphermox> I assume bileto is the name for the new spreadsheet?
[15:21] <robru> cyphermox: yep
[15:22] <cyphermox> cool.
[15:22] <sil2100> cyphermox: yes, since calling it 'spreadsheet replacement' all the time was really a bit sad ;)
[15:22] <barry> robru: what's the eta for no-spreadsheet?
[15:22] <barry> or is that bileto?
[15:22] <robru> barry: tough to say. there's lots of little fiddly bits to iron out, and some other priorities just popped up. but Soon(TM)
[15:22] <sil2100> barry: it's bileto, that's the codename alright
[15:23] <slangasek> aha, an mvo!
[15:23] <slangasek> mvo:
[15:23] <mvo> did: vacation (yay), snappy work, little bit of apt work
[15:23] <mvo> (done)
[15:23] <barry> sil2100, robru we will have to pop some e-champagne on that day
[15:23] <slangasek> :-)
[15:23] <robru> barry: hell yes
[15:23] <mvo> sorry guys, conflicting meeting :/
[15:24] <slangasek> e-champagne?  how do you put champagne in an e-cigarette?
[15:24] <barry> slangasek: well, i've heard they have this powered alcohol now
[15:24] <robru> barry: it gives you quite the buzz
[15:25] <barry> robru: git gives me all the buzz i need
[15:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:25] <sil2100> I say that instead of bileto what we really should do is implement our own google spreadsheet, and make our train spreadsheet working on that!
[15:25] <barry> monday is a usa holiday; i'll be out
[15:26] <bdmurray> as will I
[15:26] <cyphermox> sil2100: nah, sharing odf's is easier.
[15:26] <robru> sil2100: http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/twitchy.gif
[15:26] <sil2100> Uh oh!
[15:26] <doko> oops
[15:26] <slangasek> doko: hi
[15:26] <slangasek> want to update us?
[15:26] <barry> robru: is that a screen share?
[15:27] <slangasek> live video feed
[15:27] <robru> barry: yeah I found a way to share google hangouts in irc
[15:27] <doko> not much, basically openjdk-9 now in the archive, python3.5 in the archive, and still working on gcc-5
[15:27] <barry> doko: py3.5 -- \o/
[15:27] <sil2100> doko: any ETA on gcc-5?
[15:28] <doko> sil2100, as default?
[15:28] <sil2100> Yeah
[15:28] <doko> sil2100, start fixing ftbfs ...
[15:28] <sil2100> Since I saw uploads happening recently
[15:28] <sil2100> hah, ok, so unknown for now
[15:28] <sil2100> ;)
[15:28] <doko> no, not yet, currently documenting things in https://wiki.debian.org/GCC5
[15:29] <doko> but really, every fixed build failure would help
[15:30]  * slangasek nods
[15:30] <doko><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:30] <slangasek> doko: can you remind us the current list of GCC5 build failures?  I was looking for it the other day and the latest that turned up in my search was from February
[15:30] <slangasek> doko: ah, maybe it's that :)
[15:30] <sil2100> I would volunteer to help, but I don't want to declare myself without being sure to have time
[15:31] <doko> slangasek, and see the two links at the bottom of the wiki package
[15:31] <slangasek> ok
[15:31] <sil2100> But I'll try to squeeze some cycles, wouldn't mind some C/C++ once in a while
[15:31] <doko> and build logs for the ubuntu builds are at http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/test-rebuilds-20150402/
[15:32] <slangasek> ok - anything else today?
[15:34] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 15:34:04 2015 UTC.
[15:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-21-15.05.moin.txt
[15:34] <slangasek> ok, thanks all!
[15:34] <sil2100> o/
[15:34] <jodh> thanks!
[15:34] <barry> thanks!
[15:34] <sil2100> Thanks :)
[15:34] <caribou> thanks !
[15:34] <cyphermox> \o/
[15:35] <mvo> thanks!
[17:02] <mhall119> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Council meeting
[17:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 17:02:41 2015 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:02] <mhall119> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:02] <cprofitt> hello all
[17:03] <elfy> o/
[17:03] <mhall119> #chair czajkowski cprofitt elfy pleia2
[17:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski elfy mhall119 pleia2
[17:03] <mhall119> it seems I remember the meetingology commands
[17:03] <elfy> always useful
[17:03] <mhall119> we have nothing on our Agenda wiki for today
[17:04] <mhall119> is there anybody around who has a topic they would like to discuss with the Community Council?
[17:04] <elfy> ummm mhall119
[17:04] <elfy> Forums Council 17:00UTC 21st May / Core Apps/Phone 17:30UTC 21st May
[17:04] <elfy> that's today ;)
[17:04] <popey> Yeah mhall119!
[17:04] <mhall119> elfy: ah, that's down further on the page, sorry I didn't see it
[17:04] <elfy> :D
[17:04]  * popey rolls mhall119's mouse wheel a bit
[17:04] <mhall119> #topic Forums Council check-in
[17:05] <mhall119> anybody from the Forums Council here today?
[17:05] <elfy> I went and found the hat especially ...
[17:05] <cprofitt> popey: :-)
[17:05] <popey> suits you
[17:06] <elfy> only me mhall119 :)
[17:07] <elfy> pretty much all's good
[17:07] <mhall119> elfy: how has the forums activity been since the last checkin?
[17:07] <mhall119> elfy: any specific events or activities to share?
[17:07] <elfy> pretty much static month by month
[17:08] <elfy> we've just finished trying to get people involved in nominating themselves for mod team
[17:08] <mhall119> elfy: how successful was that?
[17:08] <elfy> that's not gone well really, not sure what we're going to do about that
[17:08] <elfy> pretty much the same as everywhere - hard to get people to want to 'leader' up
[17:09] <mhall119> what did you do to attract people?
[17:09] <elfy> threads - public and in the area members can see, blog post
[17:10] <czajkowski> elfy: and in general have the the FC seen an increase in users or is it just static ?
[17:10] <mhall119> elfy: how about directly asking people who you think would be a good mod if you can nominate them
[17:10] <mhall119> ?
[17:10] <elfy> czajkowski: mostly static - get increases at release time
[17:11] <elfy> mhall119: that is an option open to us still - but we're trying to make it a bit more open
[17:11] <mhall119> elfy: ack, but sometimes having a personal invite makes people more willing, we identified that in one of the UOS sessions earlier in the month
[17:12] <elfy> yes - and that's the way the forum has done it for 10 years
[17:12] <mhall119> ah, ok, so a public call is something new that's being tried?
[17:12] <elfy> yea
[17:12] <mhall119> ok
[17:13] <mhall119> elfy: any highlights or praises you'd like to give?
[17:13] <elfy> well - not brand new, we tried a while back - same
[17:13] <elfy> we're thinking on next steps
[17:14] <elfy> we still get people applying for membership via us - that's still working
[17:14] <cprofitt> elfy: what do you think might be causing people to now want to step up and be a moderator?
[17:14] <cprofitt> not
[17:15]  * mhall119 guesses inertia is the most likely cause
[17:15] <elfy> cprofitt: not sure - could be the process, could be them seeing the 'troublesome' ones
[17:15] <elfy> and that mhall119
[17:16] <elfy> the new supermod group's making transition for people to FC much easier all round
[17:16] <mhall119> elfy: is there anything the CC can do to help with recruiting mods, or anything else for the Forums?
[17:16] <elfy> not with Mods no
[17:16] <elfy> as far as anything else - we're pretty good thanks
[17:17] <elfy> rt's are always a bit of an issue - but other than bumping old ones
[17:17] <elfy> things sitting around for 6 months or more get to be annoying
[17:17] <elfy> just finding one ...
[17:17] <czajkowski> elfy: is there anything outstanding on rt or in general the CC can help with ?
[17:18] <elfy> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=25642
[17:18] <mhall119> we can try and bump priority on RTs, or at least get some action on old ones
[17:18] <elfy> I opened that last October -seems that all that's required is edit a config file
[17:18] <elfy> we of course don't have that access anymore
[17:19] <czajkowski> ugh
[17:19] <czajkowski> mhall119: surely we can get some bump on that RT
[17:19] <czajkowski> October is a long time ago
[17:19] <mhall119> yup, I'll take an action item to do that
[17:20] <mhall119> #action mhall119 to request a response to RT#25642 for the Forums Council
[17:20] <meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 to request a response to RT#25642 for the Forums Council
[17:20] <elfy> 24227 - April last - mods can't set their own passwords
[17:21] <elfy> generally though - positive
[17:21] <czajkowski> elfy: as in april just gone ?
[17:21] <mhall119> elfy: you said 24228 was solved, is 24227 still open?
[17:21] <elfy> oh - sorry we're in May ... 2015
[17:22] <elfy> 24228 is nothing to do with us afaik
[17:22] <mhall119> #action mhall119 request a response to RT#24227 for Forums Council
[17:22] <meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 request a response to RT#24227 for Forums Council
[17:22] <mhall119> elfy: ok
[17:23] <mhall119> elfy: which is the most urgent?
[17:23] <elfy> 24227
[17:23] <mhall119> ok, I'll push for that one first
[17:23] <elfy> but I think this is tied up with http/https/sso - knotty problem
[17:23] <mhall119> elfy: anything else the FC is blocked on or waiting on?
[17:24] <elfy> nope
[17:24] <mhall119> anything else the FC would like to discuss during this meeting?
[17:24] <elfy> well - waiting, but I'd not be worrying about recent ones
[17:24] <elfy> nope - I'm good thanks mhall119
[17:24] <elfy> I can take the hat off now ;)
[17:25] <mhall119> elfy: if you get to where you feel you've waited long enough, ask the CC to escelate it
[17:25] <elfy> yep
[17:25] <mhall119> you don't need to wait for the next checkin :)
[17:25] <elfy> well no - but they hang around for so long we forget lol
[17:26] <mhall119> cprofitt: czajkowski pleia2 anything else to talk to the FC about?
[17:26] <czajkowski> narp all good
[17:27] <cprofitt> I am good
[17:27] <mhall119> thanks elfy for representing the FC today
[17:27] <czajkowski> elfy: shout earlir if the FC need help with RTs
[17:27] <elfy> czajkowski: :~)
[17:27] <czajkowski> seems crazy waiting that long
[17:28] <elfy> hard to know what else they're up to - mostly just a note on the ticket 'soon'orsomething helps
[17:28] <elfy> syrup under space bar apparently ...
[17:29] <mhall119> #topic Core Apps checkin
[17:29] <mhall119> popey: your turn
[17:29] <popey> o/
[17:29] <elfy> well if everyone is good - we can move on to popey fidgeting in the corner :)
[17:29] <popey> Yo, wassup?
[17:29] <elfy> hi popey :)
[17:29] <popey> I was passing time providing support in #ubuntu :)
[17:30] <popey> <uncomfortable silence>
[17:30] <elfy> oh yes - words
[17:30] <elfy> so - anything awesome you can tell us about Phone :)
[17:30] <mhall119> popey: ok, first off then, any notable activity on the core apps?
[17:31]  * mhall119 asks knowing there is
[17:31] <elfy> lol
[17:31] <popey> Ok, so we had UOS between last time we spoke and now
[17:31] <popey> Had a bunch of sessions for core apps
[17:31] <popey> Lots of discussion and planning done for the coming months.
[17:32] <popey> However, there's one overriding issue which I want to braindump at you.
[17:32] <popey> if you don't mind.
[17:32] <elfy> go for it
[17:32] <popey> Contribution is down, and it's quite hard to get more people involved and I have some theories why.
[17:32] <popey> 1) Some aspects (such as writing autopilot tests) are not exciting but incredibly dull, and hard to 'sell'
[17:33] <popey> 2) many people don't have a device.
[17:33] <popey> 1 we can work on, we can make the tests easier to write
[17:33] <popey> we can also find those strange people who like writing them
[17:33]  * popey looks at balloons
[17:33] <popey> However, 2 is a bit harder.
[17:33] <cprofitt> yeah, I was a bit disappointed when I found my nexus 7 could not help test
[17:33] <elfy> if they were easy I would
[17:33] <popey> The knock on effect of people not having a device is that they don't feel empowered to help in many ways
[17:33] <popey> and they don't feel like they're scratching an itch
[17:34] <popey> e.g. "Why would I work on the Ubuntu music app on ubuntu phone, when I have an android phone"
[17:34] <popey> In the past, the desktop was 'easier' to get contributions to, because anyone could install it on any system
[17:34] <popey> The fact that we need to port to specific devices actually makes it hard to get devices for people
[17:34] <popey> especially when in some regions (USA) there's limited options (bq and meizu devices don't work well over there on all of their frequencies for example)
[17:35] <popey> Is this making sense?
[17:35] <mhall119> popey: do you forsee that getting easier once we have a usable Unity 8 desktop?
[17:35] <czajkowski> popey: it is
[17:35] <elfy> popey: yep
[17:35] <popey> Ok.
[17:35] <popey> Well, there's a few things that will help.
[17:35] <popey> more devices being available, and having a better end user experience helps
[17:35] <popey> as people will be more inclined to use them as their daily driver
[17:36] <popey> if you use it daily and you notice janky things, you're way more likely to file bugs / patches / translations / documentation
[17:36] <popey> we have seen this on the ubuntu-phone list
[17:36] <popey> there's people writing their own documentation, prototyping apps, translating things etc
[17:36] <popey> all things we used to get lots of contributions for on the desktop
[17:36] <popey> but at a MUCH smaller scale
[17:37] <popey> because few people have the devices. and those that do, don't use it daily, so don't see the issues, or don't feel motivated to fix them
[17:37] <popey> Now, this leads ot a bit of a chicken and egg issue.
[17:37] <popey> I feel like ubuntu phone is where ubuntu desktop was in ~2005
[17:37] <popey> works well for a subset of users, on specific hardware.
[17:38] <popey> Oh, and another thing!
[17:38] <popey> many regular contributors to ubuntu are students - people who traditionally have limited desposable income
[17:38] <popey> so they often (generalising here) make the best of the equipment they have
[17:39] <czajkowski> popey: it's a daft idea but why not organise some some of phone jam - where you or others bring along hand sets and people play with them and use them and file bugs. New users = new bugs and new users = new ideas on the phone
[17:39] <czajkowski> people come and get to meet one another
[17:39] <popey> and are more inclined to fix things because "It's my only PC". whereas everyone (mostly) already has a smartphone - even students with low / no / income
[17:39] <czajkowski> and you get some community interaction
[17:39] <popey> Well.
[17:39] <popey> Good idea to have events.
[17:39] <popey> I will certainly note that.
[17:40] <popey> However, right now, bugs we are not short of :)
[17:40] <mhall119> we have encouraged people to bring their devices to loco team events
[17:40] <mhall119> but that doesn't let others use it as a daily driver
[17:40] <czajkowski> well it's more about interaction and if you provide the devices then people can get involved
[17:40] <czajkowski> popey: perhaps for a student meet up you could give away one to the person who files the most bugs, or writes the best test case
[17:40] <czajkowski> put bounty on it
[17:41] <popey> hmm. incentivising
[17:41] <popey> you know how I feel about that :)
[17:41] <czajkowski> popey: I do :)
[17:41] <czajkowski> popey: next co working day bring devices and let people play and run the tests on them!
[17:41] <popey> like I say, bugs we have. contributions we don't
[17:42] <mhall119> I know in the past we have used the community donations to send devices to core apps developers, but we haven't expanded it to more general phone users/contributors
[17:42] <popey> people often say "it doesn't do X or Y" and I already have the bug on my screen for them
[17:42] <mhall119> even for core apps devs, we were bending the guidelines for them
[17:42] <popey> I would love to have a bunch of devices i could take somewhere and get people to contribute
[17:42] <mhall119> as many were not (yet) Ubuntu Members
[17:43] <popey> Going back to the previous question, I do believe that things will get easier as we have snappy desktop in 15.10
[17:43] <popey> and converged device coming this year
[17:43] <mhall119> right, it won't give a phone use experience, but it will at least make it easier for people to run the apps themselves
[17:43] <popey> both of those should have an impact and we should make certain to capture those poeple who are interested in contributing
[17:43] <mhall119> popey: is there anything we can do to encourage people to use core apps on current desktops?
[17:44] <czajkowski> popey: mhall119 could a loco team apply for funnds via the fund to buy phones for their team to get more involved?
[17:44] <popey> yes and no
[17:44] <czajkowski> Perhaps the perception is you have to be a core dev to get a phone
[17:44] <popey> so to mhall119, yes, i need to delete all the core apps wiki page and replace it with a pretty page on developer.ubuntu.com :)
[17:45] <mhall119> czajkowski: I would think so, yes, but they would need to show that it would be money well spent
[17:45] <popey> i dont want to buy a bunch of phones to sit in a drawer somewhere
[17:45] <mhall119> ^^ that
[17:46] <mhall119> we've loaned devices to loco teams for use in events, but the expectation was that it would come back to Canonical afterwards so it can be loaned to someone else
[17:46] <czajkowski> nods
[17:46] <elfy> popey: got to run here - I'll read up in a bit - thanks :)
[17:46] <mhall119> thanks elfy
[17:46] <czajkowski> I do know some locos are very proactive in QA and might enjoy this
[17:46] <czajkowski> perhaps they don;t know they could avail of the fund
[17:46] <czajkowski> maybe one thing they'd have to do is provide a bi weekly report of their work ?
[17:47] <popey> elfy: thanks
[17:47] <mhall119> czajkowski: yeah, and I think they would need regular in-person meetups in order for more than just one person to take advantage of the device
[17:47] <popey> Again, QA isn't really what we need. We have people testing stuff. It's fixers we need. IMO
[17:48] <mhall119> popey: is it time for another recruitment drive for Core Apps?
[17:48] <popey> yes
[17:48] <popey> so, todo list:-
[17:48] <popey> 1) make a better home page on developer.ubuntu.com
[17:48] <mhall119> ok, the hack days seemed to work reasonably well for that in the past
[17:48] <popey> 2) Better articulate the things we need
[17:48] <popey> 3) recruit
[17:48] <mhall119> popey: ack
[17:48] <popey> hack days were variable
[17:49] <mhall119> popey: what part of that can the CC help with?
[17:49] <popey> I'll make a start on 1 and 2
[17:49] <popey> Don't think anything (yet)
[17:49] <mhall119> popey: has it helped to bring some of those core app devs to sprints?
[17:49] <mhall119> I know it's highly motivating to the ones that go, but what about in recruiting new devs?
[17:49] <popey> yeah, absolutely
[17:50] <popey> not sure I understand the question
[17:50] <popey> inviting community people to sprints is a mixed blessing
[17:50] <popey> "Here, come along with us and hack on ubuntu" vs "Here, spend a week of your vacation working for no pay"
[17:51] <mhall119> is that kind of involvement with Canonical something that helps motivate people to get involved, or does it only motivate people who are already involved?
[17:51] <popey> I think it's motivating and fun for students
[17:51] <popey> less so for people with families / careers
[17:51] <mhall119> ack
[17:51] <popey> ergo we should target students ㋛
[17:52] <popey> exams are now, summer holidays coming for many
[17:52] <popey> now is the time to strike
[17:52] <mhall119> popey: what about a GSoC project for this?
[17:52] <czajkowski> popey: contact unis that offer mobile dev courses and see if they'd like a semester project
[17:52] <popey> too late for GSOC I think?
[17:53] <mhall119> maybe
[17:53] <mhall119> not sure if Google would approve it anywya
[17:53] <popey> czajkowski: yeah, will add that to my list
[17:54] <mhall119> popey: changing gears a bit, is there anything blocking or disrupting contributions from the people you already have?
[17:54] <popey> Yes. Not having enough other contributors.
[17:54] <mhall119> heh
[17:54] <popey> People to review code for example
[17:54] <czajkowski> popey: I know we can only build for ubuntu devices there are no cross platform options out there yet
[17:54] <popey> I'm not kidding
[17:54] <popey> czajkowski: would be nice if the SDK ran on other platforms, but it doesn't right now
[17:54] <mhall119> popey: do you still have people from Canonical helping with code reviews?
[17:54] <czajkowski> but have peple thought about going to many more mobile conferecens and talking about the Ubuntu phone theer to get developers who work on xamarin ios and android interested
[17:55] <popey> mhall119: I poke people now and then yes
[17:55] <czajkowski> popey: I type slowly :(
[17:55] <popey> czajkowski: we do go to conferences. not many, but targetted, dpm was at one this week doing exactly that :)
[17:55]  * czajkowski attends many many mobile events, but no sign of Ubuntu at them
[17:55] <czajkowski> and they're not just for android or iOS
[17:56] <czajkowski> anyways
[17:56] <mhall119> yes, that is something we are trying to do more of within the community team at canonical
[17:56] <mhall119> we've also been developing materials for community contributors to use at such conferences
[17:56] <popey> we have to target events carefully.
[17:56] <popey> we don't have a huge budget for events
[17:56] <popey> and many are just not appropriate
[17:56] <mhall119> yeah, a lot of mobile events seem very businessey
[17:58] <mhall119> having the SDK working on Windows and OSX would certainly help, but I think the technical difficulties on that are too high for it to be realistic right now
[17:58] <popey> yup
[17:58] <popey> its even hard to run it other linux distros
[17:59] <mhall119> I would like to see more of Ubuntu at mobile dev conferences though, perhaps we should go over our material again to make sure it's ready for non-canonicalers to use
[17:59] <mhall119> ok, our hour is just about up, is there anything else you wanted to bring up or ask for assistance with popey ?
[17:59] <popey> I think we'll be in better shape by the end of the year as we'll have more devices in more regions and converged device.
[17:59] <popey> Nope
[18:00] <mhall119> popey: any highlights or praises you want to give?
[18:00] <popey> Not now, I'll save that :)
[18:00] <mhall119> :)
[18:00] <mhall119> czajkowski: cprofitt anything else for popey?
[18:01] <czajkowski> narp all good
[18:01] <cprofitt> no thank you
[18:01] <mhall119> #topic Any other business
[18:01] <popey> thanks for the tips and advice everyone
[18:01] <mhall119> ok, *now* is there anybody here who wants to bring up a topic that wasn't on the agenda?
[18:02] <popey> can I go home now? :)
[18:02] <czajkowski> chooo chooo
[18:02] <mhall119> popey: don't like working from the office?
[18:02] <czajkowski> mhall119: no he prefers co working :D
[18:03] <mhall119> alright, last call for topics
[18:03] <czajkowski> AOB anyone ?
[18:03] <mhall119> czajkowski: well co-working gives him chocolate pains
[18:03] <mhall119> #endmeeting
[18:03] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 18:03:52 2015 UTC.
[18:03] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-21-17.02.moin.txt
[18:03] <popey> mhall119: not at 7pm
[18:03] <mhall119> thank you everyone
[18:04] <popey> o/
[18:04] <czajkowski> toodles


[02:33] <crf> Hi, when I log out and then log back in, the volume applet disappears.
[02:34] <crf> also, the sound settings "OUTPUT VOLUME" is greyed out
[08:12] <exalt> hello im installing beta 2 and im stuck on 27%
[08:12] <exalt> any ideas
[09:17] <haiping> anyone encounter this issue that 13.04 gets no sound output on MacBook Pro Retina ?
[09:21] <howlymowly> hi poeple..  I am testing out the 13.04 beta
[09:21] <howlymowly> and get an error when trying to compile some of my programs:  /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/libstdc++.so when searching for -lstdc++
[09:21] <howlymowly> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++
[09:22] <howlymowly> is there some compatibility problem with gcc ?
[09:22] <howlymowly> or a link which isn't where it is supposed to be?
[09:22] <howlymowly> or a link which isn't where it is supposed to be?
[09:41] <arif-ali> this is going to be a long shot, but going to ask anyhow
[09:41] <arif-ali> before installing 13.04, my laptop was able to charge without any problems
[09:42] <arif-ali> but after installing 13.04, none my OS's allows for charging
[09:42] <arif-ali> any ideas on what it may have changed for this to happen?
[09:43] <arif-ali> I have Bodhi 2.1.0, Ubuntu's 12.10, 13.04, PCBSD 9.1, and now none of them charge
[09:46] <howlymowly> arif-ali: I have the same problem since 12.04  ....  what hardware do you have?
[09:46] <howlymowly> I myself have a vorstro 1310
[09:46] <howlymowly> sadly I did not find a solution
[09:46] <howlymowly> yet
[09:46] <arif-ali> howlymowly, Lenovo E530
[09:46] <howlymowly> hmm.  well...  that#s not the problem then I guess
[09:47] <arif-ali> I did an install of Win7 last night, that didn't work either
[09:47] <arif-ali> until I installed Lenovo Power Manager
[09:47] <arif-ali> howlymowly, did you try in BIOS?
[09:48] <arif-ali> So I am presuming it is something to do with some power manager setting that we need to tweak in Linux
[09:51] <howlymowly> arif-ali: nope, I did not
[09:52] <arif-ali> my laptop does charge while in BIOS
[09:53] <arif-ali> btw, your stdc++ error, have you installed both 32bit and 64bit libraries
[10:10] <howlymowly> arif-ali: yepp,  I think so
[10:10] <howlymowly> I am on a 64bit machine
[10:10] <howlymowly> does it help removing one of them?
[11:00] <arif-ali> howlymowly, if you have both, then it should be able to grab the relevant onw
[11:08] <streulma> hello, Ubuntu 13.04 works pretty fast :)
[11:08] <streulma> only I have 2 bugs
[11:09] <streulma> 3 bugs
[11:09] <streulma> first I can't get the installer to the disk partitioning screen
[11:09] <streulma> then there is Verg mijn wachtwoord in place of Vraag mijn wachtwoord in installer.
[11:10] <streulma> and I can't change the background color in Unity.
[11:34] <arif-ali> streulma, I had the same issue wrt disk partitioning, but I just used debootstrap to install onto one of my LVMs
[11:35] <streulma> arif-ali: it's solved... creating new MBR with GParted, and then I can to the installer and repartition my drive
[11:35] <streulma> arif-ali: just, on my PC notebook it works
[11:36] <arif-ali> right, didn't have the luxury of redoing my partitioning, or MBR
[11:38] <streulma> find my Ubuntu install on Macbook Pro very fast ! :)
[12:24] <BluesKaj> "Morning all
[12:25] <Sonikk> BluesKaj: afternoon here
[12:25] <BluesKaj> hi Sonikk
[12:25] <Sonikk> hi
[13:53] <kapat> Hello, just upgraded to the raring beta, and after reboot X was broken
[13:54] <kapat> where should I submit a bug report?
[13:54] <smartboyhw> kapat, type apport-bug "xorg" I think in a terminal
[14:02] <kapat> alright, now X started, but unity is completely frozen.
[14:02] <kapat> should that be a bug against unity?
[14:07] <kapat> What's the current best way to configure X in Raring?  I have a basic xorg file that sort of works, but I thought you guys moved away from using xorg.conf a while ago
[14:10] <bjsnider> kapat, what graphics chip is this
[14:12] <kapat> bjsnider: It's an integrated intel chip
[14:12] <bjsnider> ok, it's non-standard to be using a xorg.conf
[14:12] <bjsnider> are you passing along unusual flags to it or something?
[14:13] <kapat> bjsnider: It worked fine in 12.10, after the upgrade x started, but unity was completely unresponsive
[14:14] <bjsnider> can you pastebin your xorg.conf please
[14:14] <kapat> Tried using the failsafe xorg file, which started x and unity kind of sort of worked
[14:17] <kapat> bjsnider: http://pastebin.com/LYXJR1GV
[14:17] <kapat> That one works
[14:17] <bjsnider> it's not necessary
[14:17] <kapat> but unity is still completely frozen after it starts
[14:17] <bjsnider> you can remove it
[14:18] <kapat> alright, how can I debug unity?
[14:20] <kapat> I can log in just fine, but after I log in I have a mouse cursor but no buttons respond
[14:20] <kapat> and it seems that the title bar doesn't finish loading
[14:20] <kapat> and the second screen just has a solid color
[14:26] <kapat> bjsnider: So, I have a bridged interface set up in /etc/network/interfaces for this machine, when it is enabled x starts, but if I comment it out and let network-manager handle the connections, then I get the "System is running in low-graphics mode" message on boot
[15:08] <kapat>  /sigh, desktop is completely hosed after upgrade. Any ideas to get unity working again?
[15:14] <xubuntu947> Hi there, is there anyone who have some problems with installing xubuntu 13.04 beta 2 ?
[15:17] <kapat> xubuntu947: I think you're going to have to be more specific than that
[15:17] <SuperLag> love 13.04
[15:18] <SuperLag> had major issues earlier on... but now I'm running it on my work desktop, it has been great
[15:18] <SuperLag> so if I've learned anything it's that "YMMV" is sooooooo true :)
[15:19] <xubuntu947> all right, after internet connection and aditional software screen something goes wrong and i have this screen: http://i45.tinypic.com/biklci.jpg
[15:20] <xubuntu947> everything stuck up - nothing happen
[15:22] <xubuntu947> but in background something is working - when i hit for example: F1 - DVD is reading and HDD start working for short time.
[15:27] <kapat> xubuntu947: Looks like something crashed... if you can figure out what it is you can try submitting a bug report
[15:27] <kapat> xubuntu947: Sorry, that's not super helpful
[15:27] <xubuntu947> well, i have no ide whats goes wrong
[15:28] <xubuntu947> i have only this : http://i45.tinypic.com/biklci.jpg
[15:28] <xubuntu947> what is: wl_cfg80211_detach+0xca/0xd0 ?
[15:29] <xubuntu947> wireless config ?
[15:38] <kapat> xubuntu947: that is the wireless driver. Maybe try turning off your wireless card, and see if it works better
[15:40] <thebishop> has Canonical considered making Shotwell the default image viewer and maybe even remove the barebones Gnome image viewer?
[15:40] <thebishop> Shotwell really works fine as a viewer, and doesn't take long to load
[15:42] <thebishop> since there's no File-> Open/Edit separation within Nautilus, I think Shotwell gives you the best result.  If you only wanted to view, you wouldn't complain about Shotwell, but if you wanted to do basic editing, Image Viewer won't cut it
[16:49] <Laiquendi> Hey there!
[16:49] <Laiquendi> Can anybody explain a situation of Ubuntu 13.04 and systemd?
[16:51] <BluesKaj> Laiquendi,  systemd is being looked at , that's all . There's no timeline for adoption
[16:52] <Laiquendi> Oh. So it is not available at a users choice either?
[16:53] <BluesKaj> Laiquendi, dunno
[16:53] <tgm4883> doubtful
[16:53] <Laiquendi> Thanks for answers!
[16:53] <tgm4883> you'd have to write startup jobs for everything
[16:54] <BluesKaj> or install archlinux if you really want it that much :)
[16:59] <johnjohn101> can someone fix pidgin so that the accounts screen is accessible from the notifications
[16:59] <bean__> johnjohn101: you'd have to take that up with the developers of pidgin, most likely
[16:59] <bean__> or whoever handles the integration between notifications and pidgin
[17:01] <trism> johnjohn101: which notifications? if in unity, the notify-osd notifications don't allow interactions...or do you mean in the messaging menu?
[17:02] <jbicha> Laiquendi: Ubuntu 13.04 is using some of systemd's services, 13.10 will probably use logind also which is a fairly important piece of systemd; Ubuntu has no plans to move away from upstart as a foundation though
[17:10] <johnjohn101> trism:  I not sure where the error lies.  does ubuntu do a custom pidgin or is this just plain vanilla?
[17:17] <trism> johnjohn101: we have the pidgin-libnotify package that handles both the notifications and the messaging menu support (the envelope icon in the panel)
[17:17] <trism> johnjohn101: it isn't part of the pidgin source
[17:43] <johnjohn101> what is that code written in?
[17:44] <johnjohn101> just seems like some work needs to be done with it.  i think there are some bugs entered
[17:45] <trism> johnjohn101: c
[18:14] <pedor> hi, anyone is using kubuntu 13.04?
[18:20] <pedor> I'm thinking to upgrade to 13.04 before the final release
[18:26] <BluesKaj> pedor, that's what ppl here do , use 13.04 , it's quite stable so far and I assume you're a KDE user , so that's even better :)
[18:32] <ironhalik> so... hows the final beta doing? :>
[18:33] <pedor> BluesKaj: yes, silly question, for a moment I forgot where I was, lol. yes, kde user. I'm using it with a live usb, it's the fastest kubuntu on pendrive I ever used.
[18:36] <BluesKaj> ironhalik, it's not ready yet
[18:37] <pedor> BluesKaj: do u use kubuntu?
[18:37] <BluesKaj> pedor, yes
[18:38] <ironhalik> BluesKaj: uhm, but did they release beta2?
[18:38] <ironhalik> theres some varying info around the net
[18:39] <pedor> NICE
[18:39] <pedor> ops, sorry, nice
[18:39] <BluesKaj> they mistakenly made an early anouncement , ironhalik , afaik
[18:39] <ironhalik> oh, I guess I'll got with the dauly one then
[18:42] <pedor> I donwloaded the "beta" as soon as I saw the news. After downloading I saw it was still the alpha
[18:42] <ironhalik> pedor: the 'beta2'?
[18:43] <ironhalik> http://releases.ubuntu.com/13.04/
[18:43] <pedor> yes
[18:43] <pedor> at least when I created the live usb it said alpha
[18:43] <ironhalik> Well, the daily works ok for me, I just need to reinstall it on one of my PCs and hoped for a more polished image
[18:43] <ironhalik> since I had lots of problems with the installer
[18:45] <pedor> ironhalik: hm, maybe it's safe to wait until the final release
[18:45] <ironhalik> I'm an update junkie :>
[18:45] <pedor> I'm already using kde 4.10.2 but was looking for the the new packages in the 13.04, expecially libreoffice
[18:48] <pedor> i like to test, but... I use this note to work
[18:48] <ironhalik> I do too, java/android development
[18:49] <ironhalik> In case it goes FUBAR, I got clonezilla images of my OS drive
[18:49] <pedor> really? what problems did you had on install?
[18:49] <jrr> is 'update-manager -d' the correct way to go from 12.10 to 13.04?
[18:49] <ironhalik> pedor: the installer would hang after formatting the partitions :)
[18:49] <ironhalik> jrr: yeah, if you're upgrading
[18:49] <jrr> it has the big scary "this is still ALPHA" warning
[18:50] <ironhalik> jrr: yeah, there are no guarantees
[18:50] <jrr> will the resulting system differ from what I would get with a beta2 iso?
[18:51] <ironhalik> jrr: the moment you run dist-upgrade, it will upgrade to beta, then to final
[18:51] <pedor> how long it takes to upgrade?
[18:51] <ironhalik> depends on the system, I would reserve around 1h+
[18:51] <pedor> ironhalik: it's a lot of time... to install it usually takes less than half hours
[18:52] <ironhalik> pedor: yeah, but the upgrade process is different
[18:52] <pedor> is it safier?
[18:52] <ironhalik> When I wasn't able to install 13.04 from iso, I did an upgrade and it went well
[18:53] <ironhalik> it wen't well for me, YMMV
[18:53] <ironhalik> once from 12.10, and once from 12.04
[18:54] <pedor> I never did a upgrade before
[18:54] <ironhalik> I did an upgrade from 9.10 all the way to 12.04 once
[18:54] <ironhalik> and it worked :>
[18:54] <pedor> well, I already have 4.10.2 and I can add a ppa for libreoffice 4.0, I think I'll wait, hehe
[18:55] <pedor> usually I have so much ppa that I'm afraid to break it all
[18:55] <pedor> almost a private rolling release, lol
[18:57] <ironhalik> I'm running xorg-edgers ppa, for my radeon 7770 drivers
[18:57] <ironhalik> everytime I connect my MTP phone, the radeon module crashes :>
[18:58] <BluesKaj> pedor, I just comment the ppas until the new OS is installed , i don't trust muon. then i copy the new ppas into the sources.list if available for the OS
[18:59] <pedor> BluesKaj: hm, I could try this
[18:59] <pedor> so, fresh install or an upgrade?
[18:59] <ironhalik> backup and try upgrading
[19:00] <ironhalik> I rsync most of my OS drive before such things
[19:00] <pedor> rsync? how?
[19:00] <ironhalik> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync
[19:02] <BluesKaj> pedor , if i have a decent OS install presently then I'll , sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[19:02] <ironhalik> pedor: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Full_System_Backup_with_rsync - heres a nice art about doing OS backup
[19:03] <ironhalik> that's data only, if you wan't do backup whole partition and restore it in case of failure, use clonezilla
[19:03] <pedor> BluesKaj: I installed this kubuntu few days ago
[19:04] <pedor> ironhalik: where do you put your backup?
[19:04] <ironhalik> pedor: second drive
[19:04] <pedor> ironhalik: don't have one :/
[19:04] <BluesKaj> pedor, this kubuntu ?
[19:04] <pedor> BluesKaj: yes
[19:04] <BluesKaj> which is ?
[19:05] <pedor> 12.10
[19:05] <ironhalik> pedor: you could put it on second partition, but it's _much_ less safe
[19:05] <BluesKaj> then just update and upgrade first , pedor , the the release upgrade
[19:05] <BluesKaj> then
[19:06] <pedor> I had a strange bug with time (it kept changing to 3 hours forward) few weeks ago and changed to xubuntu. although it's a stable/solid de it's not kde
[19:07] <pedor> I'll backup my work stuff to a pen drive now and try a upgrade. while in upgrade is it possible to use the system?
[19:08] <ironhalik> pedor: unless you use some specific system wide configs, backuping home dir should be enough
[19:08] <ironhalik> and you can always exclude ~/Downloads
[19:11] <pedor> ironhalik: ok. hm, is 13.04 still on kde 4.10.1? I'm running .2 . any problem?
[19:11] <ironhalik> dunno, I'm running Unity
[19:12] <pedor> BluesKaj: do you know about that?
[19:13] <ironhalik> "4.10.2 will be uploaded shortly after this beta release."
[19:14] <ironhalik> it regards beta2 release of kubuntu
[19:14] <ironhalik> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RaringRingtail/Beta2/Kubuntu
[19:15] <pedor> so, is it ok to upgrade?
[19:15] <ironhalik> _probably_ :>
[19:15] <BluesKaj> pedor, running 4.10.3 here already
[19:15] <ironhalik> noone can give any guarantees here
[19:15] <BluesKaj> err .2 that is
[19:16] <pedor> I'll do the upgrade so
[19:16] <pedor> what's the difference between upgrade and fresh install?
[19:17] <pedor> BluesKaj: what is the command to upgrade?
[19:18] <BluesKaj> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[19:18] <BluesKaj> pedor,^
[19:21] <pedor> hm, it seems it doesn't have all the translation to pt-br
[19:21] <pedor> but, that's ok
[19:48] <pedor> BluesKaj ironhalik: the upgrade started, let's see what happens
[19:50] <johnjohn1017> help
[19:54] <johnjohn101> oh lord
[20:03] <solsTiCe> hi. Is this a bug in roaring ringtail that UTC=no in /etc/default/rcS or it's my previous installation that cause that problem ??
[20:04] <solsTiCe> also I tried 13.104 because I had ajightmarish experience wih nouveau driver in 12.10. with graphic corruption. There is still problem in 13.04. I had no luck using the nnvidia driver in 12.10. may be this time ???
[20:05] <solsTiCe> nouveau is working fine in archlinux for me
[20:05] <trism> solsTiCe: I have UTC=no in my 12.10 upgrade from 11.10 I think, and also UTC=no in a clean install of 13.04 so I think it is just the default
[20:06] <solsTiCe> ah I said it was a bug because I just read §UTC=yes is a default since 11.something
[20:06] <solsTiCe> may be not
[20:08] <solsTiCe> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime Multiple Boot Systems Time Conflicts paragraph "Since Intrepid (8.10), UTC=yes is default" which is obviously worong.
[20:10] <solsTiCe> bye
[21:06] <pedor> BluesKaj: everything is working and a lot more smoothier, I'm quite impressed
[21:18] <pedor> hm, now I can't install firefox...
[21:20] <bjsnider> oh, sure you can
[21:20] <bjsnider> everybody can isntall firefox
[21:21] <pedor> bjsnider: /var/cache/apt/archives/firefox_20.0+build1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[21:21] <pedor> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop', which is also in package kubuntu-firefox-installer 13.04ubuntu2
[21:21] <pedor> bjsnider: I just did an upgrade
[21:21] <bjsnider> remove kubuntu-firefox-installer
[21:22] <bjsnider> or do an -f install
[21:22] <bjsnider> or both
[21:22] <pedor> -f install?
[21:23] <pedor> nevermind
[21:23] <pedor> removing kubuntu-firefox-installer worked
[21:24] <bjsnider> see, everybody can install firefox
[21:24] <pedor> bjsnider: hehehe, thanks
[21:25] <pedor> I'm impressed with this beta release, until now it seems to be faster than 12.10