[14:39] <ahasenack> hi #security, I'm doing an SRU for nfs-utils, and was wondering if I should include this fix in it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/1980095
[14:39] <ahasenack> I *think* you would say yes, and the only reason I can think of to not include it is some fear of regression that would be difficult to catch in testing without a wider audience using the package
[14:40] <ahasenack> but in a sense, it regressed in jammy, by being built without the hardening flags
[14:44] <mdeslaur> hrm, that's a good question
[14:44] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: ^
[14:49] <ahasenack> I do have other srus planned for nfs-utils later on, we could include it in one of those, to give the current package in kinetic more "cooking time" (it has the hardening fix)
[14:49] <ahasenack> point is, I think, it on its own probably does not warrant an SRU
[15:00] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure what the impact is of turning those on for libraries, which is why I asked sbeattie
[16:40] <sbeattie> ahasenack: yes, please include a fix for that, if you can. I verified that not just the hardening config was there in the libnfsidmap rules but that the actual shared objects had them applied.
[16:40] <sbeattie> and thanks!
[16:42] <ahasenack> ok, will do
[17:15] <ahasenack> sbeattie: do you happen do have a quick way to check at runtime, analyzing the binary file, if hardening flags were applied?
[17:15] <ahasenack> some objdump-foo
[17:16] <ahasenack> maybe what lintian does, but that is perl code, not my cup of tea ;)
[17:22] <ahasenack> maybe https://git.launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing/tree/scripts/test-built-binaries.py ?
[17:23] <ahasenack> that's a large script
[17:36] <sarnold> ahasenack: devscripts: /usr/bin/hardening-check
[17:36] <sarnold> oh hah that big pile of python calls that :)
[17:36] <ahasenack> TIL hardening-check
[17:37] <sarnold> I'd forgotten we had stackclash stuff in there
[17:37] <ahasenack> I look at those qa scripts, and at the top see ubuntu release names like hardy, or lucid :)
[17:42] <sarnold> reliable releases, releases that you know are running something *important* somewhere..
[17:53] <sbeattie> ahasenack: yeah, I have a low level todo to remove some of the logic around releases that have been out of support for 7+ years now...
[17:53] <ahasenack> so I ran hardening-check on the libs from libnfsidmap1, and looks like FORTIFY_SOURCE was enabled already, even without any hardening flags in d/rules
[17:53] <ahasenack> but "immediate binding" is definitely flipped to on in the new builds
[17:55] <ahasenack> and compared to focal, we got some new ones
[17:55] <ahasenack> "control flow integrity: yes"
[17:57] <ahasenack> ah, the "no fortify source" lintian warning I got when I filed the bug was from another source package, src:libnfsidmap-regex


[02:11] <arand> For icons.. Which resolution does ubuntu use for the launcher and lenses? Would it be ok to only install x32, x48 and 128x128 versions, or should I convert the large one down to some intermidiates around ~x64 as well?
[08:34] <pitti> Good morning
[08:38] <cyphermox> pitti: could I convince you to sponsor ntrack? it's been hanging around in the NBS list b/c of libnl3 for a long while, I got a branch in the sponsoring overview
[08:38] <pitti> cyphermox: sure
[08:38] <pitti> cyphermox: in a few mins, brb
[08:38] <cyphermox> yeah, no rush
[08:42] <ajmitch> cyphermox: btw, a valatoys upload that you did a couple of months back looks like it accidentally bumped the SONAME of libafrodite
[08:42] <cyphermox> uh-oh
[08:43] <cyphermox> ajmitch: ah, as a side effect of changing the vala compiler?
[08:43] <ajmitch> looks like it
[08:44] <ajmitch> it broke monodevelop-vala
[08:44] <cyphermox> looks fine in the package, can you define how it's broken?
[08:45] <ajmitch> libafrodite-0.12-2 contains /usr/lib/libafrodite-0.14.so.2
[08:58] <pitti> cyphermox: uploaded, thanks!
[08:58] <cyphermox> thanks to you!
[09:07] <geser> does unity-2d get the same attention as unity (3d)? I'm wondering because a bug in unity (3d) got SRUed weeks ago, yet the same bug in unity-2d is waiting on a SRU (and still unfixed in precise, only "Fix committed")
[09:07] <pitti> cyphermox: bug 913680
[09:25] <AfC> There's your answer, apparently.
[09:39] <fredp> seb128: hey, happy new year! "decide (at the rally) on what version of GTK to use: DONE", which version was chosen?
[09:39] <seb128> hey fredp, 3.4
[09:39] <fredp> good choice, excellent. thanks.
[09:40] <seb128> yw ;-)
[09:41] <tjaalton> is there a ppa for unity that has packages for precise and is uptodate?
[09:41] <tjaalton> ah, unity staging ppa
[09:44] <pitti> desrt: want an USB stick with daily?
[09:49] <dpm> mvo, re: ddtp translations, the only thing I can see is that the export branch at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-precise/files does not contain any files. I think exports do not work unless the exports branch has been pushed to, but I'm not sure if that's the issue here. In any case, could you try to commit the po files to the branch, to see if this way the export works?
[09:52] <tjaalton> ok, so the unity staging ppa _doesn't_ have packages for precise..
[10:15] <mterry> TheMuso`, you asked about the unity-greeter orca branch: lp:~mterry/unity-greeter/screen-reader
[10:50] <desrt> pitti: sure.  i'll drop by.
[10:53] <pitti> desrt: hang on, sorry; I gave you an usb-creator'ed one, but forgot to also put an .iso on that
[10:53] <pitti> desrt: I suppose you want a VM, not a bare metal install?
[11:49] <asac_> cyphermox: if you have issues with ntrack packages you can always also ping m
[11:49] <asac_> e
[11:50] <cyphermox> asac_: yeah, just didn't manage to catch you online
[11:50] <cyphermox> (sorry)
[11:50] <asac_> cyphermox: so whats the bug? i dont see an upload yet
[11:50] <asac_> no problem
[11:50] <cyphermox> asac_: not a bug, migrating to libnl3 3.2 which splits the packages, so a change in build-depends
[11:51] <asac_> oh i see an upload
[11:51] <asac_> cyphermox: debian/patches/disable-pedantic.patch i thought i dropped -pedantic upstream
[11:51] <cyphermox> asac_: maybe after 016?
[11:52] <asac_> hmm
[11:52] <asac_> didnt do a release yet
[11:52] <asac_> guess i was just dreaming
[11:53] <cyphermox> nah
[11:54] <cyphermox> I think it was dropped but maybe not from everywhere
[11:54] <asac_> hmm
[11:54] <cyphermox> I see it's in glib/ and subdirs, but IIRC it wasn't in all of the subdirs, which I found unusual
[11:54] <asac_> no i think i was dreaming
[11:54] <cyphermox> ok
[11:54] <asac_> last log entry for pedantic was the addition of it
[11:56] <asac_> cyphermox: from build log:
[11:57] <asac_> cyphermox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/798124/
[11:57] <asac_> cyphermox: so in case you get crashes reported
[11:57] <cyphermox> great, thanks
[11:57] <asac_> not sure if it happens with the 3.2 release though ... a make check would show it i think
[11:57] <cyphermox> I wonder if that might have been taken care of yeah
[11:57] <cyphermox> ok
[11:58] <cyphermox> I'll take a look
[11:58] <asac_> cyphermox: are we running make check in the package?
[11:58] <cyphermox> ntrack or libnl?
[11:58] <cyphermox> libnl3: probably not, but that should be fixed
[11:59] <asac_> cyphermox: strange that this qt symbol patch came back... did you add it?
[11:59] <cyphermox> yes
[11:59] <asac_> why didnt my package fail?
[11:59] <asac_> cyphermox: no on ntrack i mean
[11:59] <cyphermox> hold on a sec
[12:00] <asac_> cyphermox: make check ... according to my warning it crashed when running make check
[12:00] <cyphermox> ah, then yeah I think checks are run, and it just worked
[12:00] <asac_> in a recycle test
[12:00] <cyphermox> I thought it was "might fail"
[12:00] <asac_> cyphermox: i dont think make check is run
[12:00] <asac_> cyphermox: i cannot find any hit for "recycle" in the log
[12:01] <asac_> i am sure if you enable it we will see a crash
[12:01] <cyphermox> nah, not being run
[12:01] <desrt> ricotz: hey
[12:03] <asac_> cyphermox: on a call  now... will check after. we definitely should enable the make check in the package i am quite sure... maybe see what can be done there
[12:04] <asac_> cyphermox: i wanted to move to the rtnetlink backend by default upstream in 017 or 018... not sure if we should be brave and do it here first. it definitely is the better way :) no need for stupid libnl induced bugs etc. anymore if you can directly talk to the kernel netlink socket
[12:05] <cyphermox> asac_: up to you, really
[12:06] <cyphermox> asac: recycle does fail, I'll check out the patch
[12:08] <ricotz> desrt, hey
[13:08] <mterry> kenvandine, ping, try my deja-dup branch again (but do a fresh pull first)
[13:16] <cyphermox> asac_: can you explain why / how that libnl patch works? It's a little unclear to me
[13:17] <cyphermox> and that patch will need to make it in Debian as well, since it also has libnl3 3.2.3
[13:18] <asac_> cyphermox: it ensures that the cache is unregistered before freeing it
[13:18] <asac_> cyphermox: to avoid dangling reference
[13:18] <cyphermox> asac_: only for the NL_AUTO_PROVIDE case?
[13:19] <cyphermox> what I mean is, the comment/description isn't too clear w/r/t what it does
[13:20] <asac_> cyphermox: so ops->co_major_cache = NULL; is the key here afaik
[13:20] <asac_> the ops are set up on first cache
[13:20] <cyphermox> no such thing in that patch
[13:21] <asac_> cyphermox: thats in the function it calls
[13:21] <asac_> in nl_cache_mngt_unprovide
[13:21] <cyphermox> ah, right
[13:21] <cyphermox> I mean, the patch works, there's no question about it, just want to make sure why it hasn't been included upstream already
[13:21] <rodrigo_> pitti, seb128: I forgot last week to push my changes to the install-language branch, so did it this morning
[13:21] <rodrigo_> pitti, seb128: when you want, ping me and we can discuss what's missing
[13:23] <kenvandine> mterry, it worked once :)
[13:23] <kenvandine> and now hanging
[13:23] <mterry> kenvandine, yay!  booo
[13:23] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you? thanks, will do
[13:23] <mterry> kenvandine, comin
[13:23] <mterry> g
[13:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, I'm fine, and you? all the team safe at budapest? :)
[13:24] <pitti> rodrigo_: yes, just you missing :)
[13:25] <rodrigo_> yeah :(
[13:25] <rodrigo_> you can tell seb128 to pay the beers then :)
[13:30] <asac_> cyphermox: so the reason for the crash is that on first provide of a cache the cache is remembered as global cache and if you free that cache noone removes it so you get a dangling ref
[13:30] <cyphermox> yes
[13:32] <asac_> cyphermox: so calling unprovide ensures that the cache ref gets nulled in case the freed cache is the current global cache
[13:32] <asac_> cyphermox: i would also add git diff | pastebinit
[13:32] <asac_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/798200/
[13:33] <asac_> but technically it doesnt really matter afaict
[13:33] <asac_> because the last registered cache is as good as the first one
[13:35] <cyphermox> asac_: would you mind sending that over to libnl mailing list?
[13:40] <asac_> cyphermox: do you see where the crash happens? do you have a backtrace?
[13:40] <cyphermox> I see the crash happening but haven't looked for a backtrace, applying the patch to libnl fixes it
[13:43] <asac_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/798210/ iirc thats the change after 3.0 that uncovered it
[13:44] <asac_> before they didnt use the global cache at all
[13:50] <Riddell> Sweetshark: yo
[13:51] <Riddell> so that qt issue, is the libreoffice patch already in or backported or do we need to coordinate?
[14:13] <jincreator> pitti: Hi. I saw your comment. For -unfonts, I mean in data/pkg_depends, not fontconfig snippet.
[14:56] <asac_> cyphermox: whats the libnl list name?
[14:56] <cyphermox> asac_: all good actually, I sent it for you (and made sure it was clear you were the author)
[14:57] <cyphermox> but for the record it's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:57] <asac_> cyphermox: cool. didnt you just send with git send-mail?
[14:57] <cyphermox> nah
[14:58] <asac_> lets see if they like it :0 ... usually you just use git send-mail <git-patchfile>
[15:03] <pitti> jincreator: ah, I misunderstood then; I thought the new font replaced -unfonts
[15:04] <dobey> hey pitti; how's budapest? :)
[15:05] <jincreator> pitti: Yes, I want to add  and replace Korean default font, not replace unfont.
[15:06] <pitti> dobey: just as nice as last time, just colder :)
[15:07] <dobey> hehe
[15:08] <jincreator> pitti: In addition, I want use fonts-unfonts-core/extra package. But version of ttf-unfonts-core/extra in Ubuntu is higher than Debian. Is it possible to sync fonts-unfonts?
[15:10] <pitti> jincreator: you mean syncing fonts-unfonts-core from Debian into precise? sure
[15:10] <pitti> (that package doesn't exist yet in Ubuntu)
[15:12] <Riddell> Sweetshark busy?
[15:12] <jincreator> pitti: But seems fonts-unfonts-... and ttf-unfonts-... are build from same source. Still no problem then?
[15:15] <pitti> jincreator: hm, its built by two different sources
[15:15] <pitti> jincreator: I don't know how it actually ended up with that f***ed up version number, but apparently we can't sync until debian/upstream release 1.0.3
[15:16] <pitti> oh, that was from maverick
[15:17] <pitti> so that'll be a merge
[15:19] <pitti> (well, just another upload with a higher changelog version number, no other ubuntu changes)
[15:21] <pitti> jincreator: so for now you can just use ttf-unfonts-core
[15:23] <jincreator> pitti: Actually, Unfonts project doesn't release new version after June 2008, so it's hard Debian's package version is higher than 1.0.3.
[15:25] <jincreator> pitti: And seems Unfonts maintainer in Debian improve this package. So I just want to use new version in Debian repository.
[15:26] <pitti> ok, then someone needs to merge it; we split the package and only ship a subset of the ttfs on the CD
[15:30] <jincreator> pitti: Actually ship only fonts-nanum-core on the CD, maybe...
[15:32] <BigWhale> Greetings
[15:36] <jincreator> pitti: Ok, thanks. Have a nice day in Budapest!
[15:37] <BigWhale> Oh, everyone is in Budapest.
[16:28] <Riddell> Sweetshark busy?


[05:45] <DanaG> - Linux >= 2.6.20 with I/O accounting support (CONFIG_TASKSTATS, CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT, CONFIG_TASK_IO_ACCOUNTING): Not found
[08:13] <hrw> morning
[08:14] <zyga> hi hrw!
[08:21] <amitk> morning .pl
[08:26] <zyga> amitk, hey, how are you
[08:27] <amitk> good, how is the flooding situation in .pl?
[08:37] <ogra> amitk, it roughly moved on to germany now
[08:38] <amitk> ogra: ohh?
[08:39] <ogra> the oder flows from poland through germany
[08:39] <ogra> i think the highest levels are done in poland and move down the river now
[08:42] <hrw> ogra: Poland is big country - flood to my city has not yet arrived
[08:42] <ogra> oh, wow
[08:42] <hrw> but Szczecin is prepared for Odra flood
[08:42] <hrw> we have lot of space for water where no one is allowed to live
[08:43] <ogra> german news said the hump would arrive at the german boarder last night
[08:43] <hrw> and bigger problem is not water from south but from returning water from Baltic Sea
[08:43] <hrw> Szczecin tomorrow/Saturday   iirc
[08:43] <ogra> yeah
[08:44] <ogra> oh, right, Szczecin comes after it went through germany
[08:47] <hrw> zyga: sent
[08:49] <zyga> hrw, did you get a bounce?
[08:49] <zyga> hrw, I suspect you did what I did some time ago
[08:50] <hrw> zyga: I just sent it again though my own smtp
[08:50] <zyga> hrw, I think you have to send it thru google's own SMTP using "that" domain's account to actually reach your recipients
[08:51] <zyga> brb
[08:51] <hrw> zyga: smtp is smtp - as long as email is delivered
[09:00] <zyga> back
[09:01] <zyga> hrw, yeah but google seemed to block my other address, anyway the message is away
[09:01] <zyga> hrw, I wonder what people think
[09:01] <zyga> hrw, -> (other chan)
[09:33] <ogra> ndec, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
[10:01] <amitk> hmm, http://paste.ubuntu.com/440283/ wonder what is happening at line 595 for nfsroot
[10:02] <amitk> ogra: ^ any ideas
[10:05] <ogra_cmpc> amitk, i remember there were mountall issues with nfsroot, not sure they are already solved
[10:05] <ogra_cmpc> i guess we need to talk to Keybuk
[10:40] <ogra_cmpc> amitk, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/537133
[10:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 537133 in portmap (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "mountall issues with NFS root filesystem (affects: 10) (dups: 2) (heat: 72)" [Medium,Fix released]
[10:41] <ogra_cmpc> ubot2, liar !!
[10:41] <ubot2> Factoid 'liar !!' not found
[10:41] <ogra_cmpc> (its not fix released for mountall, only for portmap)
[10:42] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: hmmm... not sure if the second issue is similar to min.
[10:42] <amitk> *mine
[10:44] <ogra_cmpc> there is also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/578851
[10:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 578851 in mountall (Ubuntu) "Fail to remount root on nfsroot install (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[10:45] <ogra_cmpc> though you dont seem to have /dev/nfs in your fstab
[10:50] <ogra_cmpc> amitk, erm, do you use an initramfs ?
[10:50] <ogra_cmpc> doesnt look like it
[10:50] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: no
[10:50] <ogra_cmpc> i dont think nfs support is compiled in
[10:50] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: it is
[10:50] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[10:51] <amitk> and /dev/nfs is in my /etc/fstab for the remote root fs
[10:51] <ogra_cmpc> did you try with initramfs ?
[10:51] <ogra_cmpc> i bet it would work
[10:54] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: no, and to be honest I don't want to. I want to be able to boot-test several different arm boards. Compile kernel and copy to webserver. And the board gets its rootfs over nfs
[10:55] <amitk> there is not .deb packaging around these kernels, straight mainline + patches
[10:55] <ogra_cmpc> ootserver=<IP_ADDRESS>, rootserver=<IP_ADDRESS>, rootpath=
[10:55] <ogra_cmpc> seems your rootpath doesnt get handed over properly
[10:56] <ogra_cmpc> line 454
[10:57] <ogra_cmpc> try with explicitly setting rootpath=/shared/nfs
[10:57] <ogra_cmpc> and see if IP-config gets it then
[10:58] <ogra_cmpc> else i'd actually say its an IP-Config bug
[10:58] <amitk> indeed, good catch
[10:59] <ogra_cmpc> also is your export in the server side proper ? (try to mount it rw from somewhere else)
[11:00] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: yeah tried that
[11:00] <ogra_cmpc> while rootpath isnt set it obviously gets to mountall, so it must have acessed it
[11:00] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: it should get the rootpath or equivalent from the kernel cmdline
[11:01] <ogra_cmpc> (though i dont know if mountalal doesnt try to grab rootpath ... if its empty it likely doesnt know what to do)
[11:01] <ogra_cmpc> *mountall
[11:02] <ogra_cmpc> well, in initramfs we have a special script that parses nfsroot and actually exports rootserver and rootpath, might be that mountall relies on that
[11:03] <ogra_cmpc> see /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
[11:19] <ogra_cmpc> amitk, heh, do you have devtmpfs support compiled in ?
[11:20] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: yes, I saw that mount option for /dev and added it in last night :)
[11:20] <ogra_cmpc> i dont see it listed between 461 and 484
[11:20] <amitk> doesn't ltsp use nfsroot?
[11:21] <ogra_cmpc> nope
[11:21] <ogra_cmpc> nbd
[11:21] <ogra_cmpc> nfs is dog slow compared to an nbd exported squashfs
[11:22] <ogra_cmpc> amitk, try editing /lib/init/fstab and remove devtmpfs there (just keep tmpfs)
[11:22] <ogra_cmpc> i would bet that makes it boot
[11:23] <ogra_cmpc> though that still leave the question why parse_filesystems doesnt swee it
[11:23] <ogra_cmpc> *see
[11:25] <ogra_cmpc> parse_filesystems just loops over /proc/filesystems
[11:25] <amitk> ogra_cmpc: ok, it gets stuck at the next step now, /dev/shm
[11:26] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[11:27] <ogra_cmpc> tmpfs is clearly found
[11:28] <ogra_cmpc> though in your log it seems that all tmpfs mounts have issues too
[12:25] <zumbi> hrw: i still intent to work on DB#577674 if you do not beat me, but not before 1-2 months
[12:28] <hrw> zumbi: ah... its your bug :)
[12:32] <zumbi> hrw: sure, feel free to add (if you consider) my comments so doko is aware
[12:34] <hrw> doko gave mi that bug number
[12:36] <zumbi> hrw: yes, that is current work
[12:37] <zumbi> at least to my concern
[12:37] <zumbi> help is very much welcome :-)
[12:49]  * hrw → lunch
[13:44] <ndec> amitk: when i look at ubuntu kernel tree, i can see tags such as Ubuntu-2.6.34-1.1. what does the 1.1 mean? how does it related to mainline tag?
[13:46] <amitk> ndec: it doesn't relate to the mainline tag. It is Ubuntu's internal abi versioning. So 1.1 means abi version 1, upload 1.
[13:46] <amitk> 1.2 would be same abi but new upload
[13:48] <ndec> amitk: ok, thx.
[13:49] <amitk> ndec: this is to make sure all external modules/packages depending on internal abi are recompiled when a new kernel abi hits the archive
[13:49] <amitk> e.g. the dkms packages for the binary -nvidia and -ati drivers use this
[13:50] <ndec> amitk: so how do you decide if there is an abi change?
[13:52] <amitk> ndec: automated scripts (debian/script/abi-check) are run after a new kernel build. If the hashes for internal functions have changed, the build will fail if we haven't changed the abi version in debian/changelog
[13:53] <berco> Has anyone used the "edit-patch" from ubuntu-dev-tools package? I'm trying to use it but it complains about "Patch system can not be detected ...." And I use quilt in my case. Any help appreciated.
[13:53] <ndec> amitk: thx!
[13:59] <lool> berco: You could set -x it and see where it fails
[13:59] <lool> berco: It might not be detecting a quilt build-dep or a quilt rules include
[14:04] <berco> lool: thx. Apparently the script is looking for some file that I'm missing: "debian/patches/series"
[14:05] <lool> berco: Yes, that's the expected place for your quilt series
[14:06] <lool> berco: You probably want such a file with the list of patches if you're using
[14:06] <lool> quilt
[14:07] <berco> I have quilt installed but I'm now trying to find some doc as to what "series" is supposed to do
[14:08] <lool> berco: series is a list of filenames
[14:08] <lool> of patches to apply
[14:08] <lool> the files should be below debian/patches
[14:09] <lool> berco: You might want to look at existing packages using quilt?
[14:09] <lool> berco: e.g. apt-get source gconf2
[14:10] <berco> lool: thanks. I think I got confused and thought I could use "edit-patch" to create a new patch.
[14:10] <lool> berco: That's the goal I think
[14:10] <lool> berco: quilt provides commands to do this as well
[14:11] <berco> lool: but if I create a new patch "series" potentially doesn't exist for the 1st patch
[14:11] <berco> so I need to create it empty?
[14:14] <lool> Yes
[14:15] <berco> lool: many thanks. "touch debian/patches/series" is enough to start working with "edit-patch" :)
[14:20] <lool> berco: Cool  :)
[14:23] <lool> hrw: No need to put your name before work items in brackets because you're the assignee
[14:24] <lool> hrw: we only do that when someone not the assignee helps with the spec
[14:24] <hrw> no need but I can - right?
[14:25]  * ogra always puts his name in front ...
[14:25] <ogra> ... to honor the Department Of Redundancy Department
[14:28] <lool> hrw: it's a bit cluttering, but you can yes
[14:32] <zyga> lol :-)
[14:34] <ogra> hrw, there seems to be a kernel that spits out console= into upstart environment at https://edge.launchpad.net/~apw/+archive/green/+packages
[14:35] <ogra> seems like we'll get that for all meverick kernels soon
[14:35] <ogra> *maverick
[14:36] <hrw> cool
[14:38] <hrw> CONFIG_INIT_PASS_ALL_PARAMS
[14:39] <ogra> yeah
[14:39] <hrw> ubuntu addon
[14:39] <ogra> right
[14:40] <ogra> yet :)
[14:40] <amitk> will go upstream if they want it
[14:40] <hrw> patch is small and quite nice
[14:41] <ogra> should definately be good enough to base the autotty code on
[14:41] <hrw> yep
[14:41] <hrw> waiting for omap3 kernel with it
[14:41] <ogra> up to amitk or cooloney i guess
[14:42] <ogra> or mpoirier
[14:42] <ogra> not sure who is supposed to take the omap3 maverick kernel
[14:42] <ogra> cooloney is likely busy enough with omap4
[14:43] <amitk> mpoirier will take care of it
[14:43] <ogra> ah, right
[14:45] <ogra> mpoirier, hrw is working on an upstart enhancement to autospawn a getty if console=ttyS... is set
[14:45] <ogra> so having the patch thats being tested at https://edge.launchpad.net/~apw/+archive/green/+packages would be intresting for us in the omap3 kernel
[14:46] <apw> ogra, its not like upstart cannot get that information already from /proc/cmdline
[14:46] <ogra> apw, Keybuk denied that
[14:46] <hrw> apw: keybuk does not want that way
[14:46] <ogra> he wants to have the script proper on first shot :)
[14:46] <hrw> already discussed and it got refused
[14:46] <apw> i can believe he doesn't want it that way, but till he tests the patch for real its in it court
[14:47] <apw> i suspect there is some initramfs work to stop that fecking up all the options too
[14:50] <mpoirier> so, should I try applying the patch on OMAP3 ?
[14:50] <ogra> mpoirier, as soon as apw approves and Keybuk has tested it
[14:51] <mpoirier> very well. Lucid, Maverick or both ?
[14:51] <ogra> (just wanted to let you know why i pinged you actually :) )
[14:51] <ogra> maverick only
[14:51] <mpoirier> should we open a bug for it ?
[14:51] <ogra> lucid doesnt get new features
[14:52] <hrw> mpoirier: did not omap3 built from same sources in maverick?
[14:52] <mpoirier> indeed.
[14:56] <ogra> hrw, well, a bug wont do any harm to track the issue
[14:56] <ogra> so you actually know when its applied
[14:56] <ogra> hrw, feel free to subscribe to bug 586386
[14:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 586386 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu) "omap3 kernel should hand over all comdline args to the init environment (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586386
[14:56] <ogra> bah, i typoed :(
[14:57] <amitk> ogra: let apw know about the bug so that he can auto close it when he applies it to the kernel
[14:58] <ogra> indeed
[14:58] <ogra> apw, ^^^
[15:01] <hrw> added links
[15:05] <apw> ogra, amitk, ack have the number now
[15:05] <ogra> thanks ... i would have triaged it properly but dont know what that takes for the kernel team :)
[15:55] <zyga> have you guys seen meego release?
[15:55] <ogra> looks like moblin
[15:56] <hrw> it is moblin
[15:56] <amitk> is it done in Qt?
[15:56] <hrw> just rebranded
[15:57] <hrw> amitk: no, still clutter/gtk
[15:57] <hrw> or rather MX (which is clutter based UI toolkit)
[15:57] <zyga> hmm
[15:57] <zyga> they use qt as the "standard" toolkit though
[15:58] <hrw> zyga: they announce it atleast
[15:58]  * hrw had to work in moblin team
[15:58] <zyga> there is some talk about how to use qtcreator to make meego apps
[15:58] <zyga> and since meego = nokia + intel
[15:58] <zyga> qt and atom are the way to go for this project
[15:58] <zyga> I wonder how it plays out with ARM and ... AMD
[15:59] <zyga> meego is this nice "not android" software you can put on a product
[16:00]  * zyga just tried dd'ing meego image on to /dev/sda on his main workstation
[16:00] <zyga> fortunately I was saved by crappy gvfs
[16:00] <zyga> the image was on .gvfs
[16:01] <zyga> and sudo dd didn't find the source file
[16:01] <zyga> this made me re-read what I wrote
[16:02] <ogra> that error made me write usb-imagewriter :)
[16:02]  * ogra once wiped his laptop HDD with a wrong dd
[16:04] <hrw> I have system on sdb
[16:04] <hrw> sda1 is 10GB very old debian rootfs so no big loss (newer is on sdb1)
[16:05] <ogra> well, if you typo your dd command to sdb thats bad then :)
[16:06] <zyga> ogra, the one that ubuntu has?
[16:07] <hrw> ogra: current rootfs is on sdb3
[16:07] <ogra> zyga, ?
[16:07] <ogra> the one what ?
[16:07] <zyga> ogra, what is usb-imagewriter
[16:07] <ogra> its a gui for dd
[16:07] <ogra> its in universe
[16:08] <ogra> and scans for mounted disks before offering you devices to write to
[16:08] <ogra> so you can never write to your actual root disk
[16:08]  * zyga will try it out
[16:09] <ogra> file bugs if you find any, i havent used it since quite a while :)
[16:13] <hrw> lool: the more I look at dh_movefiles removal, the more I do not see a need for it.
[16:13] <hrw> lool: I can do migration (already migrated some subpackages) but it can be ugly in few places.
[16:47] <mpoirier> ogra - you around ?
[16:48] <ogra> mpoirier, yup
[16:48] <mpoirier> good.
[16:49] <mpoirier> bug 566645
[16:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 566645 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "doing a netinstall to SD card results in OTG related oops on first boot (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566645
[16:49] <mpoirier> have you been able to reproduce reliably ?
[16:50] <ogra> not since OTG was disabled completely anymore :)
[16:50] <mpoirier> educate me on OTG pls.
[16:50] <ogra> its the small USB port on the C series beagle
[16:51] <ogra> it can run in host or gadget mode
[16:51] <mpoirier> ok.
[16:51] <mpoirier> what as OTG disabled ?
[16:51] <ogra> during lucid development we found its broken, amitk didnt manage to find a fix so it was disabled completely
[16:51] <mpoirier> when was OTG disabled ?
[16:51] <ogra> after i filed that bug
[16:51] <ogra> we indeed want it to work in maverick
[16:51] <mpoirier> is the bug still valid ?
[16:52] <ogra> dunno, once i have a maverick image to test i will be able to tell you, its not valid for lucid anymore
[16:52] <mpoirier> vey well.
[16:53] <ogra> i changed the bug status accordingly
[16:53] <mpoirier> about maverick.
[16:54] <mpoirier> I have a lucid powered beagleboard.
[16:54] <mpoirier> I compile a 2.6.34 kernel and install it on.
[16:54] <ogra> ok
[16:54] <mpoirier> have you done it ?
[16:55] <mpoirier> /dev/mmcblk02 seems to be missing, preventing the rootfs to be mounted.
[16:55] <mpoirier> and the system stalls in busybox.
[16:55] <mpoirier> I'd like to know if I'm the only one with the problem.
[16:55] <ogra> /dev/mmcblk02 or /dev/mmcblk0p2 ?
[16:55] <mpoirier> the latter yes,
[16:56] <mpoirier> writing this off the top of my head.
[16:56] <ogra> i havent put much time into omap3 stuff recently working on the omap4 stuff atm
[16:56] <mpoirier> ok, I'll investigate
[16:56] <ogra> but i just compiled a touchbook kernel for my touchbook which works fine
[16:56] <ogra> based on .34
[16:57] <ogra> so its likely a config option you miss or something like that
[16:57] <ogra> since the touchbook boots from mmc
[16:57] <mpoirier> Well, it's off Leann's integration branch
[16:58] <mpoirier> which should include all the OMAP3 changes from Lucid.
[16:58] <lool> hrw: problem is that dh_movefiles is deprecated
[16:58] <lool> hrw: dh compat 2 is really old and might go away
[16:59] <hrw> ok, but what does it give except 'dh_movefiles may be dropped one day'?
[16:59] <lool> hrw: That seems like a good reason to move away from it
[16:59] <mpoirier> ogra: you already have a panda board don't you ?
[16:59] <ogra> mpoirier, if we have a binary kernel i'll help testing that on my beagle its hard to tell why yours doesnt find mmcblk0p2
[16:59] <lool> hrw: but frankly, it's not the highest priority work in the cross-compilers spec
[16:59] <ogra> mpoirier, not yet, it should arrive on the weekend or monday i think
[17:00] <ogra> mpoirier, did yours arrive already ?
[17:00] <mpoirier> ogra: nop, but was supposed to have been shipped.
[17:00] <hrw> lool: sure, we need to prioritize it
[17:00] <ogra> great
[17:00] <mpoirier> ogra: what are you testing OMPAP4 on then ?
[17:00] <ogra> blaze
[17:00] <hrw> lool: but this updated my debhelper knowledge
[17:00] <ogra> looks like a giant mobile phone :)
[17:01] <lool> hrw: Ok
[17:01] <lool> hrw: Are you still fighting it
[17:01] <hrw> lool: I made some notes and can return to it later without problems
[17:01] <mpoirier> ogra: for mmcblk0p2, all you need is the linux-image*.deb file ?
[17:02] <lool> hrw: Ok, if you're moving to something else, mark it back TODO
[17:02] <ogra> mpoirier, did you do a standard ubuntu install on the board (i.e. from one of the installer images)
[17:02] <hrw> sure lool
[17:02] <ogra> then you should just be able to dpkg -i the deb
[17:03] <mpoirier> ogra: I'm in Lucid and do "dpkg --force-depends -i package.deb"
[17:03] <ogra> why --force-depends ?
[17:03] <mpoirier> ogra: --force-depens is mandatory.  Otherwise complains about wireless package not present on system
[17:03] <ogra> then you didnt do an ubuntu install :)
[17:04] <ogra> the images ship these packages by default
[17:04] <ogra> so you will additionally need to create an uImage from vmlinuz as well as a uInitrd
[17:04] <mpoirier> ogra: I followed the instructions found at http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#U-Boot_uImage
[17:04] <ogra> ow
[17:04] <mpoirier> ?
[17:05] <ogra> well, while thats nice to get ubuntu running its not ubuntu :)
[17:05] <ogra> our setup is different, the installer applies bits these images cant provide (like writing uImage to NAND etc)
[17:05] <ogra> so if you use such an image you have to do some parts manually to upgrade the kernel
[17:06] <ogra> if you use an ubuntu kernel package
[17:06] <ogra> first of all i'd resolve the dependency issue so you dont have to use --force-depends all the time :)
[17:06] <ogra> after dpkg -i failed run "sudo apt-get -f install"
[17:06] <ogra> that will install the missing package
[17:07] <mpoirier> before going any further it is mandatory that I get my board configured the same way as yours.
[17:07] <ogra> (assuming you have a NIC attached)
[17:07] <mpoirier> I do.
[17:07] <ogra> nah, not for kernel testing
[17:07] <ogra> actually not using NAND for the kernel will make testing easier
[17:08] <ogra> but you should use a script for the updating of the kernel ...
[17:08] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439253/ thats a setup i use on my blaze
[17:08] <mpoirier> not using NAND is a boot script thing.
[17:08] <ogra> that should update the kernel on vaft
[17:08] <ogra> *vfat
[17:08] <hrw> mpoirier: cheap omap boards after beagleboard will not have nand afaik
[17:09]  * armin76 steals NCommander's boards
[17:09] <ogra> hrw, right, but flash-kernel has no integration for that setup yet, i still need to write it
[17:09] <ogra> it will be similar to the above paste
[17:10] <ogra> just less hardcoded :)
[17:11] <hrw> ah.. no symlinks on vfat..
[17:11] <hrw> but do we have symlinks in /boot?
[17:11] <ogra> and using a vfat bootpartition is surely better than having to fiddle with uImage in nand from the u-boot prompt ... if you run test kernels taht break from time to time
[17:11] <ogra> we do
[17:11] <hrw> omap has..
[17:11] <ogra> which is why we will have an extra vfat partition for the uImage
[17:12] <hrw> my desktop does not
[17:12] <ogra> right
[17:12] <hrw> ogra: on bug 2.0 we used one ext3 partition and enabled ext support in uboot
[17:12] <hrw> worked fine
[17:12] <hrw> bug 2.0 is omap3 based
[17:13] <hrw> kernel was loaded from /boot/ on that ext3
[17:13] <ogra> well, on beagle u-boot ext2 support always crashed for me or took horridly long
[17:13] <hrw> before we used same config on i.mx31
[17:13] <hrw> anyway time for me
[17:13] <mpoirier> ogra: get back to me when you're done with hrw
[17:13] <ogra> right, if ext support works ext is great
[17:13] <hrw> have a nice rest of day
[17:14] <ogra> ciao hrw
[17:14] <ogra> mpoirier, just chime in that was just chatter :)
[17:14] <prpplague> ogra: greetings
[17:14] <prpplague> ogra: hey, is there a trick to using an unbuntu rootfs over NFS?
[17:14] <ogra> mpoirier, so use something similar to the script i pasted above and put it into kernel-img.conf
[17:15] <ogra> prpplague, amitk did that today shouldnt require any tricks
[17:15] <prpplague> ogra: hmm
[17:15] <ogra> mpoirier, as a postinst_hook
[17:16] <prpplague> ogra: we tested on panda and blaze, and both hang after mounting the rootfs and starting up the GUI stuff
[17:16] <ogra> mpoirier, the dpkg -i usually rebuilds the initramfs if you use ubuntu kernel packages so it should just work
[17:16] <ogra> prpplague, but you can boot it up to a console prompt ?
[17:17] <mpoirier> ogra: everytime I updated it did rebuild the initrd
[17:17] <ogra> might be an issue with gnome
[17:17] <ogra> mpoirier, perfect so the above script should just work for you
[17:17] <mpoirier> ogra: I need to understand the kernel-img.conf thing.
[17:18] <ogra> its a file usually created by the installer on arm we dont actually use it anymore
[17:18] <mpoirier> ogra: I was already doing mkimage to generate a new uImage and uInitrd - classic embedded stuff
[17:19] <ogra> right, the postinst script of the kernel package looks in kernel-img.conf, if it finds a postinst_hook entry it will execute it after the package was installed
[17:20] <ogra> we used to use flash-kernel as a postinst_hook in former releases (flash-kernel is the tool used on all arm platforms in debian and ubuntu to care for HW specific cases to activate the new kernel ... i.e. write to NAND if needed or copy to vfat etc)
[17:21] <ogra> today flash-kernel is automatically called by update-initramfs so kernel-img.conf isnt used anymore
[17:22] <ogra> as i said above, the changes to flash-kernel to create an uImage on a vfat partition were not written yet so currently you need to apply a script and use kernel-img.conf for your setup
[17:22] <prpplague> ogra: yea if we use a scaled down image we can get a prompt
[17:22] <ogra> i'll land these changes soon (before the alpha2 release)
[17:23] <prpplague> ogra: but if we use the larger images it just hangs
[17:23] <ogra> prpplague, very likely gnome not getting along with NFS mounted home
[17:23] <ogra> do you use an initramfs ?
[17:24] <ogra> (that uses nfsmount and applies nolock in ubuntu, i'm not sure the kernel does that by default if you use the in-kernel way of nfsroot)
[17:24] <prpplague> we weren't using an initramfs for this testing, i was guessing it probably had some permissions or temp workspace issues
[17:25] <prpplague> ogra: ahh seems like i read something about that with regards to ubuntu
[17:25] <ogra> well, if it boots through to a running system its likely X related ... gdm or the homedir in gnome etc
[17:25] <prpplague> ogra: is there a wiki page or howto doc we could look at?
[17:25] <ogra> for using initramfs ?
[17:25] <ogra> or for nfs bugs ? :)
[17:25] <prpplague> for doing ubuntu over nfs
[17:26] <ogra> i dont think there is anything arm specifc
[17:27] <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto might be the best you can get but thats outdated i think
[17:27] <prpplague> thanks i think i had that one bookmarked for a look over today
[17:27] <mpoirier> ogra: I looked at you pasted script and I was doing the exact same thing, except mine wasn't automated.
[17:28] <mpoirier> ogra: the real problem seems to come from the initial installation
[17:28] <ogra> that might be
[17:28] <mpoirier> ogra: where some packages seems to be missing.
[17:28] <mpoirier> ogra: I don't think it is cause by my "C2" rev.
[17:28] <ogra> right, that rootfs is created with rootstock that might not get you a 100% ubuntu
[17:29] <ogra> its shouldnt be
[17:29] <ogra> *it
[17:29] <mpoirier> ogra: that being said, where do I find the "approved" way of installing Ubuntu on beableBoard ? Should I use the netinstall ?
[17:29] <ogra> prpplague, sorry that i cant help much more but since i switched ltsp to nbd images in 2006 i havent touched nfsroot anymore :)
[17:30] <prpplague> hehe indeed, it was just one of the items that we wanted to test
[17:30] <prpplague> ahh the good ol' days of LTSP
[17:30] <ogra> mpoirier, you wont have much fun for kernel development with the approved way
[17:31] <ogra> mpoirier, since we flash the kernel to NAND by default which gets you into bad situations once you flashed a broken kernel
[17:31] <ogra> mpoirier, though https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle has the 2official" images
[17:33] <prpplague> ogra: haven't i seen you in the #ltsp channel in the past?
[17:34] <ogra> prpplague, i wrote ltsp5 with scottie, you have for sure :)
[17:34] <ogra> i stepped down in 2008 though
[17:34] <prpplague> ogra: ahh right
[17:34]  * prpplague dropped out of LTSP stuff back around 2001
[17:35] <ogra> but i'm still a resident there and go to the november meetings in maine :)
[17:42] <robclark> btw, semi-related to questions about X11/gdm and nfsroot, etc... how actually does recovery mode work?
[17:43] <robclark> is there some bootarg I can add to tell upstart not to start gdm/x11?
[17:44] <ogra> single or text on the cmdline
[17:44] <robclark> ogra: ahh, perfect.. thx
[17:44] <ogra> single requires an initramfs and gets you to a rootshell, text just switches off gdm
[17:44] <robclark> ok.. text is probably good for what I am trying to do..
[18:24] <mpoirier> ogra: the package I'm missing is "wireless-crda"
[18:25] <ogra> yeah
[18:25] <mpoirier> any idea why and where I could get it - for ARM that is.
[18:25] <ogra> just apt-get -f install should install it
[18:26] <ogra> beyond that http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/w/wireless-crda/ but apt knows which version you want
[18:26] <mpoirier> fabulous - thanks.
[18:46] <amitk> prpplague: ogra: I didn
[18:46] <amitk> oops
[18:47] <amitk> prpplague: ogra: I didn't use the full desktop, only build-essential and openssh-server for my rootstrap
[19:51] <xorAxAx> omapfb omapfb: illegal display bpp
[19:51] <xorAxAx> omapfb omapfb: failed to setup fb_info
[19:51] <xorAxAx> omapfb omapfb: failed to setup omapfb
[19:51] <xorAxAx>  omapfb omapfb: failed to setup omapfb
[19:51] <xorAxAx>  omapfb: probe of omapfb failed with error -22
[19:52] <xorAxAx> ogra: these are my kernel messages when i try to run the server install on tv
[19:57] <xorAxAx> gah, i hate how debian/ubuntu slim down the d-i kernel
[19:57] <xorAxAx> it doesnt detect the second usb hub on beagle
[20:20] <xorAxAx> (ok, old uboot)
[20:51] <prpplague> ogra: ping
[20:59] <asac> ogra: how is your flash-kernel fixes for omap going that would update the uImage etc. on mmc1 if no nand is found?
[21:54] <ogra> asac, will do them next week, do you need a prototype ?
[21:55] <ogra> xorAxAx, try to modify the bootargs on boot.scr with a differnt resolution https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleEditBootscr
[22:02] <asac> ogra: nah, thats fine. just wanted to know if you already did that in case i feel like doing it tomorrow
[22:03] <ogra> well, it needs to work with our new image design
[22:04] <asac> ogra: my understand is that we dont mount boot, but rather just look up the right fat partition and update the uimage etc. there
[22:04] <ogra> right
[22:05] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439253/ something like that with sane detection code will go into flash-kernle
[22:05] <xorAxAx> ogra: resolution? i tried pal
[22:05] <ogra> (note we dont need kernel-imf.conf anymore)
[22:06] <xorAxAx> ogra: the whole FB setups fails when i try that, doing that later on with sysfs works
[22:06] <asac> ogra: why that postinst hook? why not just put that code in flash-kernel directly?
[22:06] <ogra> we do, and flash-kernle is now always called from update-initramfs so we dont need it anymore
[22:07] <asac> ok thats what i thought then
[22:07] <ogra> kernel-img.conf is dead in debian for arm
[22:07] <ogra> it merged their changes to flash-kernel which hooks directly into initramfs-tools now
[22:07] <asac> let me see if i still have the code i wrote at some point
[22:08] <ogra> with the new image structure you can hardcode mmcblk0p1 if you want btw
[22:08] <asac> hmm
[22:08] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap
[22:08] <ogra> thats what ubuntu will have for arm from 10.07 on
[22:08] <asac> all arm images?
[22:09] <ogra> well, we'll only produce omap in the distro
[22:09] <asac> ah ...kk
[22:09] <ogra> and the panda restrictions force such an image
[22:09] <ogra> (no local disk at all now)
[22:11] <asac> ogra: why cant we install the rootfs on a usb disk?
[22:11] <ogra> because we would still need the SD to boot
[22:11] <ogra> and because i hear complaints all the time about the slow install process
[22:11] <asac> ogra: sure. but you would be able to have a much bigger rootfs
[22:12] <asac> ogra: (suggestion: jasper)  i started on clown for that
[22:12] <ogra> so i worked out that setup with cjwatson at UDS
[22:12] <asac> but folks complained about that approach and said we should use d-i like seeding
[22:12] <asac> at least cody complained if you remember
[22:15] <asac> ogra: what i would love to see is a feature that allows you to move a rootfs over to a plugged in usb disk and then boot from that
[22:15] <ogra> asac, 11.04 ;)
[22:16] <ogra> jasper/clown whatever can be enhanced
[22:16] <asac> ogra: hmm. you are a lagger ;)
[22:16] <asac> jk
[22:16] <asac> ok heading for lunch
[22:16] <asac> good night (hope you are gone when i am back)
[22:16] <ogra> i need to use the same setup in 10.07 and 10.10
[22:16] <ogra> yeah, team call atm
[22:16] <ogra> i'll fall asleep afterwards
[22:20] <xorAxAx> i get segfaults when rebooting :-(
[22:50] <xorAxAx> ogra: i get wlan0     no wireless extensions.
[22:50] <xorAxAx> anything weird in the kernel config that breaks wifi?
[22:50] <xorAxAx> the driver loads without error messages
[23:14] <mpoirier> As anyone built the Maverick omap3 kernel ?
[23:14] <mpoirier> ogra: you still on ?
[23:20] <rcn-ee> mpoirier, my own omap3 kernel is working in maverick, looking for something specific?
[23:20] <mpoirier> rcn-ee: did you build it yourself ?
[23:21] <rcn-ee> no... my beagles did from the source i patched. ;)
[23:21] <mpoirier> your beagles ?
[23:22] <rcn-ee> Yeah, my beagles.. kernel deb's here, http://rcn-ee.net/deb/maverick/  source is at https://launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel (boot testd on all beagles, overo, igepv2, etc)
[23:35] <xorAxAx> rcn-ee: do you think your kernel would fix my wifi problem?
[23:36] <rcn-ee> xorAxAx, it depends... if they fixed the wifi upstream and ubuntu hasn't updated there kernel yet. then 'maybe' otherwise it's probally the same...
[23:38] <rcn-ee> oh.. just scrolled up.. yes.. i have wireless extensions enabled in mine...
[23:38] <rcn-ee> xorAxAx, the latest (about a week till i move it to stable tree) would be http://rcn-ee.net/deb/lucid/v2.6.34-dl5/
[23:42] <asac> xorAxAx: what wifi chipset is that?
[23:46] <asac> ogra: i assume we wouldnt need to create the uimage etc. in /boot at all anymore?
[23:46] <asac> (looking at your mkimage scrip)


[00:09] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** wmww edited [pull request #2469](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2469): wlr-screencopy-v1: send .damage event when required
[00:58] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** wmww opened [pull request #2470](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2470): Send changed area to frame posted notification... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/16d22f0bf2389563c76a73068d88721c10232faf)
[02:36] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** RAOF opened [pull request #2471](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2471): renderers/gl: Clear framebuffer to opaque black, not fully-transparent.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/ce162b329cec96e76472bd0c5740179482a01258)
[04:38] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** RAOF removed RAOF review needed from [issue #1130](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/1130): [mesa] Add support for modifiers
[04:51] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** frank-dspeed edited [issue #2467](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2467): Auto-selection of X11 platforms fails with Nvidia drivers (470 and 515)
[04:52] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** frank-dspeed edited [issue #2467](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2467): Auto-selection of X11 platforms fails with Nvidia drivers (470 and 515)
[04:53] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** frank-dspeed edited [issue #2467](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2467): Auto-selection of X11 platforms fails with Nvidia drivers (470 and 515)
[04:59] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** frank-dspeed edited [issue #2467](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2467): Auto-selection of X11 platforms fails with Nvidia drivers (470 and 515) using LXDE
[08:05] <Saviq> Good morning o/
[08:07] <alan_g[m]> Good morning. It is sunny here, possibly a day to use the outdoor office
[08:10] <Saviq> alan_g I can't do `MultiLogger(std::initializer_list<std::unique_ptr…>)` as you can't move out of `std::il` AIUI, and UPtr is move-only. Am planning to move a `std::vector<std::unique_ptr…>` instead, which would also help with constructing the vector of child loggers, WDYT?
[08:14] <alan_g[m]> Saviq: I'll have to experiment, there must be a better solution. I just don't know which it is...
[08:18] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths edited [pull request #2471](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2471): renderers/gl: Clear framebuffer to opaque black, not fully-transparent.
[08:34] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] closed [issue #2465](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2465): ABI breakage of libmircore.so.1 with v2.8.0 vs v1.8.2
[08:34] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2466](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2466): Bump mircore soname
[09:08] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2471](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2471): renderers/gl: Clear framebuffer to opaque black, not fully-transparent.
[09:08] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] closed [issue #2427](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2427): Screenshotting and background
 "I'll have to experiment, there..." <- Saviq I think that the best trade-off is to use shared_ptr and copies. That does come at a cost, but this shouldn't be a "hot" path (just executed once during setup)
[09:13] <Saviq> Yeah that was the other alternative. ACK
[10:16] <Saviq> alan_g something to fix on 32 bit:
[10:16] <Saviq> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/607040430/buildlog_ubuntu-kinetic-armhf.mir_2.8.0+dev217-gfbe99fb062-0ubuntu22.10_BUILDING.txt.gz
[10:17] <alan_g[m]> Yeah, just started on that
[10:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths opened [pull request #2472](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2472): Fix armhf symbols
[11:13] <alan_g[m]> Saviq a quick one: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2472
[11:23] <Saviq> Was waiting for a Pi to test, but went ahead and borsed instead…
[11:25] <alan_g[m]> Saviq: Oh, you actually wanted to try packaging it on armhf before landing! (Maybe we should do that in CI too)
[11:26] <Saviq> We do, but apparently that doesn't catch this problem.
[11:28] <Saviq> Oh! We don't: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/blob/3739e3fbb18ebf88cd2767b5aa5da94f8966166a/.github/workflows/spread.yml#L45
[11:29] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq drafted [pull request #2473](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2473): ci: add armhf builds
[11:29] <Saviq> Let's see how that fares
[11:29] <Saviq> (it should fail)
[11:32] <alan_g[m]> Saviq: That's how good tests should begin
[11:41] <Saviq> Which is why I raced bors to this PR :)
[11:48] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2472](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2472): Fix armhf symbols
[12:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq opened [issue #2474](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2474): AllSurfaceTypes/TouchTest flaky in CI... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/7833560741850540df42056e7a779046ffb26be0)
[12:16] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq edited [issue #2474](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2474): wlcs.AllSurfaceTypes/TouchTest / .BadBufferTest flaky in CI
[12:17] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq edited [issue #2474](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2474): wlcs.AllSurfaceTypes/TouchTest / .BadBufferTest flaky in CI
[12:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2469](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2469): wlr-screencopy-v1: send .damage event when required
[12:42] <Saviq> > (it _should_ fail)
[12:42] <Saviq> Oh well… it _did_ fail, just not how we wanted it to…
[13:21] <alan_g[m]> Yeah, there seems to be too many "random" wlcs tests failures.
[13:45] <alan_g[m]> Like this (wlcs.MultiRectEdges/RegionSurfaceInputCombinations.*) https://launchpadlibrarian.net/607067476/buildlog_ubuntu-focal-arm64.mir_2.8.0+dev225-gd7826d3c16-0ubuntu20.04_BUILDING.txt.gz
[13:49] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq edited [issue #2474](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2474): wlcs tests flaky in CI
[13:52] <Saviq> alan_g re: nullptr logger override, that was the behaviour before my changes, and AIUI means it falls back to the default (IoW, doesn't override) - I agree it's not intuitive, and we may as well override always.
[13:53] <Saviq> Also, after my changes we will only do that if we fail to write to the log file, so there's less reason to "retain the default" if that's not gonna happen unless things go in unexpected ways
[13:56] <Saviq> So I applied your suggestion.
[13:59] <Saviq> And now I realize a null shared_ptr is not exactly the same as an empty one.
[14:01] <alan_g[m]> You're right, it would then use the default
[16:47] <sophie-w> Working on the ABI break to geometry, do we need to keep the `_generic` headers around?
[16:49] <alan_g[m]> sophie-w: They're used (by other headers). What are you wanting to do?
[16:52] <sophie-w> alan_g[m]: Move their contents into the non-generic version (when `Point` is just a typedef specialization of `generic::Point`, there's no need to have it in it's own header)
[16:53] <Saviq> > Yeah, there seems to be too many "random" wlcs tests failures.
[16:53] <Saviq> I have a distinct feeling it got worse, too.
[16:53] <sophie-w> > <@saviq:matrix.org> > Yeah, there seems to be too many "random" wlcs tests failures.
[16:53] <sophie-w> >
[16:53] <sophie-w> > I have a distinct feeling it got worse, too.
[16:53] <sophie-w> Agreed
[17:07] <alan_g[m]> Goodnight all!
[17:39] <Saviq> And here it goes:
[17:39] <Saviq> https://mir-server.io/docs/how-to-maintain-documentation
[17:42] <Saviq> Good night from me o/
[18:37] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2464](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2464): performance_test: record renderer and mode
[20:46] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** graysonguarino pushed something to [pull request #2299](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2299): Filter 2 distinct bogus touch event scenarios
[21:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** wmww opened [pull request #2475](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2475): Simplify geometry types
[21:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[21:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > For ABI stability reasons, we previously had the int geometry types inherit from the generic ones. Making the same code work for both these inherited types and the generic ones added all sorts of complexity and a few papercuts. Now that we are breaking the mircore ABI all of that can be removed. The one downside is that the forward declarations of geometry types changed and became more verbose, so I switched everything that was forward
[21:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- declaring them to use the `geometry/forward.h` header. I also consolidated the headers.


[00:31] <jas02> Hi, I am receiving error during start of. rackd. I't complaining about IPv6. How to force rackd to use just IPv4?
[00:31] <jas02> Error message: OSError: [Errno 97] Address family not supported by protocol
[00:41] <jas02> IPv6 is disabled on server
[14:24] <mup> Bug #1897946 opened: hi1620-based ARM Servers are shown as "Unknown model" <kunpeng920:Fix Committed by taihsiangho> <lxd:New> <MAAS:Fix Committed> <MAAS 2.9:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1897946>
[14:36] <mup> Bug #1897946 changed: hi1620-based ARM Servers are shown as "Unknown model" <kunpeng920:Fix Committed by taihsiangho> <lxd:New> <MAAS:Fix Committed> <MAAS 2.9:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1897946>
[14:42] <mup> Bug #1897946 opened: hi1620-based ARM Servers are shown as "Unknown model" <kunpeng920:Fix Committed by taihsiangho> <lxd:New> <MAAS:Fix Committed> <MAAS 2.9:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1897946>
[16:27] <mup> Bug #1917665 opened: PXE booting exits into grub command-line <MAAS:New> <grub2 (Ubuntu):Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1917665>
[16:30] <mup> Bug #1917665 changed: PXE booting exits into grub command-line <MAAS:New> <grub2 (Ubuntu):Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1917665>
[16:33] <mup> Bug #1917665 opened: PXE booting exits into grub command-line <MAAS:New> <grub2 (Ubuntu):Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1917665>
[18:36] <mup> Bug #1917794 opened: Unable to view full history of events in UI <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1917794>


[07:38] <Kilos> hellooo africa
[09:28] <ariabbas> .
[09:29] <Kilos> hi ariabbas
[09:29] <Kilos> ohi elacheche_anis
[09:48] <ariabbas> ;-)
[17:58] <Kilos> elacheche_anis  dont forget to look at the agenda and make it so you can read it hey
[18:01] <elacheche_anis> of course Kilos :)
[18:01] <Kilos> lol
[18:01] <elacheche_anis> I'll do it as soon as am mentally able to :D
[18:01] <Kilos> QA  agenda
[18:01] <QA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AfricanTeams/Meetings/20150729
[18:02] <Kilos> you see how to get the link hey
[18:04] <elacheche_anis> Yep :) At least I can use QA for something :D
[18:05] <Kilos> lol  and weather forecasts
[18:05] <Kilos> and well teach you to chair meetingsm with her
[18:06] <Kilos> and her commands are easier than meetingology
[18:07] <Kilos> hey elacheche_anis  where is your newest tn member
[18:07] <elacheche_anis> x) :D
[18:07] <elacheche_anis> Kilos, he's always online when you're sleeping :D
[18:07] <Kilos> he hasnt found anyone yet
[18:08] <elacheche_anis> I find him all night long :D As he sleep at daytime and be online during the night :)
[18:08] <Kilos> then jump on him man
[18:10] <elacheche_anis> to do what x)
[18:12] <Kilos> to contact the missing 6 locos and get them here
[18:12] <Kilos> i think there is one of them that did visit here but i forget who
[18:13] <Kilos> im too old to work so hard
[18:15] <elacheche_anis> I'll tell him
[18:15] <elacheche_anis> or you can leave him a memo :D
[18:15] <Kilos> lol
[18:16] <Kilos> you tell him, he doesnt listen to me
[18:16] <Kilos> hehe
[18:18] <elacheche_anis> hhhhh ok
[18:19] <Kilos> lol
[18:26] <elacheche_anis> It's almost fast breaking time, should go to eat x)
[18:26] <elacheche_anis> see you later :)
[18:26] <Kilos> ok
[18:26] <Kilos> enjoy
[18:26] <elacheche_anis> :)
[19:15] <melodie> hi!
[19:20] <Kilos> hi melodie
[19:22] <melodie> hello Kilos !
[19:23] <Kilos> how are you melodie  , im good
[19:23] <melodie> I'm fine!
[19:24] <Kilos> good
[19:24] <melodie> I have finished the work for a new flyer for my local services activity, and I will send it on monday to the printer
[19:25] <Kilos> nice
[19:25] <Kilos> do you ever rest?
[19:25] <melodie> thanks to rafaellaguna who helped me figure out how to proceed for some steps in Inkscape
[19:25] <melodie> yes I rest when I sleep and before that I watch an episode or two of a series
[19:25] <Kilos> lol
[19:26] <melodie> then I will have my flyers and distribute them around directly to people so I can get clients and earn some money (it's too short now!)
[19:26] <Kilos> what is the local services activity
[19:26] <Kilos> money is never enough
[19:37] <melodie> I don't earn any
[19:37] <melodie> :/
[19:37] <melodie> if I don't have a few clients
[19:38] <Kilos> nor do i my girl so dont feel too bad
[19:38] <melodie> helping people with their computers is the activity
[19:38] <melodie> I need a bit to live however :D
[19:39] <Kilos> yes ifix the odd laptop for school kids but one cant charge them really
[19:43] <melodie> I get that
[19:43] <melodie> but you can say you don't do it for free, you can do it for a free price including gifts (in food for instance)
[19:43] <melodie> eggs, pancakes, chicken, whatever..
[19:44] <Kilos> oh they all offer and often offer more than i thinks it is worth so i take enough just to let them feel happy they payed for the service
[19:44] <Kilos> but some are poor so they get it free
[19:46] <Kilos> and then i do some data recoveries for my sons clients but dont charge because it helps his customer base grow
[19:46] <melodie> Kilos you could do better then:
[19:47] <Kilos> i dont need much though, my sister feeds me , and i have my pc so im happy
[19:47] <melodie> the ones who offer more: you take, you say what part is for you and what part will be put aside for other's who don't have enough. what do you think?
[19:47] <Kilos> oh yes good idea
[19:47] <melodie> youpi !
[19:47] <melodie> :D
[19:48] <Kilos> lol :D
[19:48] <melodie> I am an idea provider and so far I never charged for that. ;)
[19:48] <Kilos> but there are very few to do, so its months between jobs
[19:48] <melodie> the extra money you put aside could be used to buy, for instance, extra ram for the poorest's machines?
[19:49] <Kilos> you cant charge me, all i have is my friendship
[19:49] <melodie> or other items they may need, usb stick whatever...
[19:49] <melodie> Kilos I accept you friendship gladly. I am very honoured!
[19:49] <Kilos> aw ty
[19:49] <melodie> :)
[19:50] <Kilos> as long as i have data to be online with im happy
[19:50] <melodie> I created a new flyer for my activity and I will probably put it on an open source license, such as CC BY-SA
[19:51] <Kilos> is it a picture?
[19:51] <melodie> what would you think of a flyer you could have people distribute around them in their local circles, to make them bring their old lappies and towers to you, to put them under a light linux distro? (lubuntu/bento... ) ?
[19:51] <melodie> it's not a picture, it's text arranged in a special way
[19:51] <melodie> and some images
[19:52] <melodie> it could be adapted to fit other people's needs, such as yours : you are really trying to make the world better and this is what I also do here.
[19:52] <Kilos> i am way out of town on a small holding,  so not many peeps are near here
[19:52] <melodie> not many means a few:
[19:53] <melodie> a few know more
[19:53] <melodie> and more live a bit further...
[19:53] <Kilos> yes well mainly my sisters friends grandchildren
[19:53] <melodie> I am also in a countryside and many here don't know what is different between Windows and their computer. they have special beliefs.
[19:54] <Kilos> i have told them to tell their friends at school
[19:54] <melodie> "windows computer" / "oh! is there something else that exist? then I should change computer?"
[19:54] <Kilos> lol
[19:54] <melodie> :s
[19:55] <Kilos> its actualy strange that people dont know yet
[19:55] <melodie> sigh
[19:55] <Kilos> after being hit by trojans 3 times i started asking around for a better way
[19:56] <melodie> imagine some day, someone would tell you that you can flash the program of your washing machine, wouldn't you be astonished? this is how their beliefs are rooted.
[19:56] <Kilos> lol
[19:57] <melodie> well here either they pay to get rid of it, or they put the machine in a closet and buy another one, and sometimes just trash the machine (including hard drive and pictures of the beloved ones inside)
[19:57] <Kilos> i didnt even know what trojans were or antivirus and malware programs
[19:57] <melodie> not all of them of course, but some do.
[19:59] <Kilos> when i fix kids laptops i install good antivirus and firewall for them as well and none have come back
[20:02] <melodie> do you also install the adblock+ extension for them and have it configured?
[20:02] <melodie> in the web browser I mean
[20:04] <Kilos> no
[20:05] <Kilos> i dont like windows so just make it work then give it back
[20:05] <Kilos> hehe
[20:05] <melodie> https://adblockplus.org/
[20:06] <melodie> I use it in Linux too
[20:06] <melodie> all my browsers have it
[20:06] <Kilos> ty i will do that in future as well
[20:06] <Kilos> oh yes my browser here all have it
[20:06] <melodie> you can start right now and see the options that you can activate
[20:06] <melodie> the best stuff ever
[20:06] <melodie> oh ! ok !
[20:06] <Kilos> even on opera-browser i have yfbpurity
[20:07] <Kilos> fbpurity
[20:07] <Kilos> then i dont see the russian women looking for husbands and that kind of stuff
[20:08] <melodie> lol !
[20:08] <Kilos> lol
[20:09] <Kilos> what size is you banner file?
[20:09] <melodie> no idea
[20:10] <melodie> I had to renew my firefox settings these days because something went wrong (could not see the toolbar in the wysywig editor of WordPress anymore)
[20:10] <Kilos> i very seldom use firefox
[20:10] <Kilos> all the upgrading wastes my data
[20:16] <Kilos> i go sleep now melodie, look after yourself and good luck with everything you do
[20:16] <Kilos> im here every day


[13:35] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[14:19] <diecastarts> Hailz all
[14:19] <BluesKaj> hey diecastarts
[14:20] <diecastarts> is this a support channel or just the canadian team channel???
[14:21] <BluesKaj> well, I've seen support here but the channel isn't very active , the supports are #ubuntu and #kubuntu
[14:22] <diecastarts> yeah fared that.. because those channel never answer any of my questions
[14:22] <BluesKaj> diecastarts, what's your question(s)?
[14:22] <diecastarts> but any i guess i'll have to keep looking for a good support channel then .. thank you for your time
[14:22] <diecastarts> oh well i have to little problems
[14:23] <diecastarts> one just started... no idea how but now my gamepad and controll mouse
[14:23] <BluesKaj> we can try to fix them if you wish
[14:23] <diecastarts> the other is my monitor suspends even thou it set to never by default
[14:24] <diecastarts> i think that one is just a backend software controll the vid card or something like that
[14:24] <diecastarts> if ya don't mind
[14:24] <BluesKaj> which video card ?
[14:24] <diecastarts> 7300 GT nidia
[14:24] <diecastarts> nvidia
[14:25] <BluesKaj> that card is supported by the nvidia-current driver ...I have the 7600gt and it works well
[14:26] <diecastarts> yeah everythings works great.. i have compaz and everything great... but there is something that keeps suspending my monitor is the problem
[14:27] <diecastarts> i am guessing it so other backend software that controlling
[14:27] <diecastarts> because in the gui it all set to never suspend
[14:28] <diecastarts> compiz *** sorry
[14:29] <diecastarts> if you are not sure .. thats ok .. i'll can keep looking around if need be
[14:29] <diecastarts> at least i had someone respond to me for once
[14:32] <BluesKaj> diecastarts, I have everything in power management turned off except the performance setting for the cpu , also make sure you don't have a scrnsavers setting in monitor display
[14:39] <diecastarts> everything is off .. or set to never and to never spin-down the hard drive .. the performance setting i am not sure about
[14:42] <BluesKaj> the performance setting is ondemand by default , but it shouldn't affect your timer
[14:43] <diecastarts> k well I just going to keep looking around .. maybe i can find in the software manager
[14:43] <BluesKaj> which ubuntu version are you running?
[14:45] <diecastarts> 10.04
[14:46] <diecastarts> i have alot of drivers installed... some are just saying nvidia other are xorg
[14:46] <diecastarts> i am very new to all thios
[14:46] <diecastarts> sorry
[14:46] <diecastarts> this*
[14:48] <BluesKaj> diecastarts, you need only one driver for each piece of hardware , otherwise you'll have conflicts if the new driver doesn't disable the existing , however usually anew driver will not install if the existing one is active
[14:49] <diecastarts> if i take a screen-shot of this think that would help
[14:49] <diecastarts> not sure if there drivers or whatnot
[14:50] <BluesKaj> that's why the package manager is best for installing the latest recommended drivers , it will remove the old drivers and libs that go with it automatically , especially if you're new to linux
[14:52] <diecastarts> in the ubuntu software center or the synaptic manager?
[14:54] <BluesKaj> either one , but synaptic is better IMO..however not all the listed installs are driver as such , they are dependencies , apps that are required for the driver s to work etc , so don't take anything out unless you know what you're doing
[14:54] <diecastarts> in the hardware manager it shows just the one driver installed 173
[14:54] <diecastarts> thats my whole problem
[14:54] <diecastarts> no idea what to do .. but anyway
[14:55] <BluesKaj> ok, is there a recommended driver listed ?
[14:56] <diecastarts> its set to 173 .. but now there is a /// current version (recommended) <--- that was never there till now
[14:56] <diecastarts> just has V96 V173 and current
[14:57] <BluesKaj> then choose the recommended current version
[14:58] <BluesKaj> and install it
[14:58] <diecastarts> k well i did stuff like this long ago and it missed all up .. do i have to make sure it all installed before i reboot.... because last time i remove it reboot and it montior works till ubuntu boots and goes black screen
[14:59] <diecastarts> just before the login screen
[15:00] <BluesKaj> always let the installer finish it's job first, you'll get a notification in the panel to reboot
[15:00] <diecastarts> k thanks for all the help
[15:00] <diecastarts> but any idea on the gamepad thing?
[15:01] <BluesKaj> no sorry
[15:01] <diecastarts> k np
[15:02] <BluesKaj> let us know if your install is successful
[15:02] <diecastarts> should i remove the old first
[15:02] <diecastarts> and then activated the other one?
[15:03] <BluesKaj> activate the current driver and install it , it will automatically remove the old one
[15:04] <diecastarts> k thankie :)
[15:08] <ZykoticK9> diecastarts, FYI if you remove the package xserver-xorg-input-joystick it will stop controlling your mouse input (and you'll still be able to use your joystick fine for games etc)
[15:09] <diecastarts> k well it saying it done and restart
[15:09] <diecastarts> Oh sweet thanks ZykoticK9
[15:09] <diecastarts> but is the maybe a hot key or something??
[15:09] <diecastarts> it just odd it it started today out of no where
[15:11] <diecastarts> WOW holy %$#@ when i searched xorg in my software center there is tons of things .. and not just nvida ati and others
[15:12] <diecastarts> is that normal?
[15:13] <BluesKaj> diecastarts, yes if you configged an xorg,conf file earlier
[15:14] <BluesKaj> especially if you game controllers etc
[15:14] <diecastarts> i don't think i have .. but the ati and old savage drivers and others
[15:14] <BluesKaj> have
[15:15] <diecastarts> there are **
[15:17] <diecastarts> well nm that for now i guess.. i'll do the reboot and see what packages are installed afterwards
[15:28] <diecastarts> hailz all again
[15:30] <diecastarts> well the video seem all still good.. compiz is still working fine .. so good there... not sure yet if that stopped the suspending yet .. but in the software center .. there still drivers .. like old ones 2 savage .. or voodoo ati ectectect
[15:31] <diecastarts> i pretty should i don't need drivers for video card you cannot even find anywhere now of days
[15:31] <BluesKaj> diecastarts, they are inactive, just leave them
[15:31] <diecastarts> k cool... i just wanted to be sure
[15:34] <diecastarts> k well I just going to walk away from the computer for a long while and see if the mofo suspends LOL
[16:07] <diecastarts> well that seemed to have worked... and also the gamepad is not controlling my mouse again .. thanks to u2 again ..
[22:15] <hakimsheriff> hey dscassel, you there?
[22:32] <dscassel_> Too late, I guess.


[00:39] <nhaines> elky: you around?
[01:00]  * ianorlyn is
[01:26] <nhaines> ianorlyn: that's good.  I was hoping we'd have statistics though.
[01:53] <nhaines> Well, meeting coming up in 7 minutes.
[01:55] <lrcaballero1> Good night everyone! this is Luis
[01:55] <lrcaballero1> :-D
[02:00] <nhaines> Hey, Luis!  Right on time!  :D
[02:00] <lrcaballero1> What's up Nathan...
[02:01] <nhaines> It's meeting time, that's what's up.  :)
[02:01] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[02:01] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon May 18 02:01:14 2015 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:01] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:01] <lrcaballero1> lol
[02:01] <nhaines> #chair ianorlyn
[02:01] <darthrobot> Current chairs: ianorlyn nhaines
[02:01] <lrcaballero1> you got the right...
[02:01] <nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu California meeting!  Today's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15May17
[02:01] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15May17 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:02] <nhaines> First up, we were going to look at how often meetings had agenda items to discuss in 2014.
[02:02] <nhaines> elky was voluntold to perform the analysis, but I haven't heard from her this week.
[02:03] <nhaines> Does anyone have any comments to make about our biweekly meeting schedule before we postpone this topic to next meeting?
[02:04] <nhaines> Oh right, plus we have bot commands that are a thing.
[02:04] <nhaines> #topic Review last year's meeting agenda activity.
[02:07] <nhaines> Okay, so we'll move on and postpone a look at this topic until next meeting.
[02:07] <nhaines> #topic Other business
[02:08] <nhaines> Does anyone have any upcoming events or announcements they would like to mention?
[02:09] <lrcaballero1> nothing here....
[02:12] <nhaines> All right.  I don't have anything else to add either.
[02:12] <nhaines> I've been asked to help out with some training planning which will be cool, but more on that in the future.
[02:13] <nhaines> All right, in that case, we'll bring the meeting to a close for this week.
[02:13] <lrcaballero1> I would like to know more about this....are you accepting volunteers for this?
[02:13] <nhaines> For the training?
[02:14] <lrcaballero1> yes
[02:14] <nhaines> Too far out right now to tell, and I haven't joined on just yet.  But if we do need more volunteers you'll be the first to know.  :)
[02:14] <nhaines> (I accepted the offer to help out, we're looking at early 2016.)
[02:15] <nhaines> Our next meeting is Sunday, May 31st, at 7pm PDT.  Hope to see everyone there!
[02:15] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[02:15] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon May 18 02:15:33 2015 UTC.
[02:15] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2015/ubuntu-us-ca.2015-05-18-02.01.moin.txt
[02:15] <lrcaballero1> Thank you Nathan, have a wonderful night! I will shoot you an email next time I am in Aliso Viejo maybe we can grab lunch or somehing
[02:15] <nhaines> lrcaballero1: ooh, awesome.  Thanks.  :)
[02:15] <nhaines> That would be pretty cool.
[02:16] <lrcaballero1> See ya...
[02:17] <nhaines> ianorlyn: would you do the honors for the channel topic?
[02:21] <ianorlyn> oops forgot about meeting
[02:24] <ianorlyn>  Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, May   31st, at 7:00pm PDT (UTC -7:00)
[02:24] <darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu California Team | California Team]
[02:26] <ianorlyn> This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
[02:26] <ianorlyn> grr keeps purring second line in
[02:27] <ianorlyn> finally
[03:06] <elky> sorry guys, lost track of time
[03:07] <elky> nhaines: stats are done. haven't sent mail because distractions
[03:08] <elky> mostly because i recorded in gdocs and i don't want to hand format a .txt or deal with the "wah gdocs proprietary evil" discussion
[03:08] <elky> doing dishes is more enticing than either of those options
[03:21] <nhaines> elky: yay, you're alive!  \o/
[03:23] <elky> yeah sorry, left dinner late and then forgot it was sunday
[03:23] <nhaines> Yup, not ignoring my Google Calendar reminders has been useful this week.
[03:23] <nhaines> rww removed himself as an /r/Ubuntu mod without comment, so I don't know what's up with him.  :P
[03:23] <nhaines> How's the bitey monster?
[03:24] <elky> nhaines: he was purging the reddit account as he is want to do
[03:24] <elky> bitey monster is cuteing at the end of our bed where it was warm and sunny earlier
[03:26] <elky> so, reading every. single. meeting. log this week made me think we need to reformat the meeting structure in general.
[03:26] <elky> (well every single '14/'15 log)
[03:28] <elky> i don't think we should be leaving "i did/will $thing next week at $place" to the end. and we should be encouraging "I installed/gave out cds/other small avocacy thing" at the start, rather than at the end before lurkers get bored and walk off.
[03:29] <elky> so i think we might want to try starting with an "announcements and advocacy" bit for the first few mins each meeting.
[03:30] <elky> that's the kind of thing that's getting put in AOB which is probably not the optimal place
[03:32] <elky> i think if people get to boast about installing their neighbours grandma's computer, it might allow them to own the meeting more.
[03:32] <elky> so we shouldnt be discouraging it, even accidentally
[04:19] <nhaines> Interesting.  I like it.


[01:40] <Lure> @schedule ljubljana
[01:40] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 14:00: MOTU | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team
[06:24] <highvoltage> @schedule
[06:24] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 May 20:00: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00: MOTU | 27 May 14:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team
[08:13] <welshbyte> @now
[08:13] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 22 2007, 18:13:13 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 hour 46 minutes
[10:02] <__keybuk> mjg59: I don't have the context for that mail you sent
[10:04] <mdz> __keybuk: forwarding to techboard
[10:04] <mdz> sent
[10:05] <mdz> we're up to date with MOTU applications from the MOTU council
[10:05] <mdz> and I'm not aware of any core-dev applications
[10:05] <dholbach> Hobbsee was proposed for core-dev
[10:05] <mdz> __keybuk: has anyone reminded sabdfl already?
[10:05] <mdz> dholbach: oh, did I miss an email?
[10:05] <dholbach> and was recommended by a few people
[10:05] <dholbach> mdz: the problem is that the process is not clear yet
[10:05] <mdz> hence your agenda item
[10:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock also wanted in, iirc
[10:06] <LaserJock> oh sweet, not too late
[10:06] <mdz> dholbach: I think it should be handled similarly to ubuntu-dev
[10:06] <dholbach> passing on recommendations to the MC works fine via mailing list
[10:06] <dholbach> what do you think? how many recommendations by the MC would you want for that? all 5 or a simple majority?
[10:06] <dholbach> (before we pass it on to the TB)
[10:07] <LaserJock> mdz: so would there be any IRC component? or all email?
[10:07] <mdz> a simple majority is fine, though of course we want to hear from developers outside of the council as well
[10:07] <dholbach> right
[10:08] <dholbach> I'm happy with that - I'll drop you a mail with the summary about Hobbsee and make sure the new process is in the wiki docs and announced on the list
[10:08] <dholbach> does anybody else have questions regarding the new core-dev process?
[10:08] <mdz> LaserJock: I think that in most cases we'll want to do an interview as well
[10:08] <mdz> the application should arrive via email, and we can make arrangements from there
[10:08] <ajmitch> dholbach: yes, what is it? :) are people meant to put in an application to the MC?
[10:08] <LaserJock> well, I just would like to be clear on the whole process
[10:08] <LaserJock> not just the MC part
[10:08] <mdz> I think it's more useful to pass an application via email than to add a line item to the TB agenda
[10:09] <LaserJock> ah
[10:09] <dholbach> ajmitch: I don't think it matters in which order we get those mails, as long as we have recommendations and somebody who wants to become core-dev :)
[10:09] <dholbach> ajmitch: so if it's an application or a recommendation first shouldn't matter
[10:10] <ajmitch> right, as long as it's clear *what* is needed
[10:10] <dholbach> mdz: I think I'm happy with my agenda point now.
[10:11] <mdz> what's needed is the same thing as always: testimonials, information about the candidate's activities, demonstrated knowledge and understanding of Ubuntu development in accord with UbuntuDevelopers, etc.
[10:11] <mdz> traditionally we would collect some of the information on a wiki page
[10:11] <mdz> and I think that's probably still a good idea
[10:12] <mdz> putting it someplace public makes it easy for future candidates to understand what's expected
[10:12] <mdz> so I'm thinking of a process something like this:
[10:13] <mjg59> Sorry, I'm here now
[10:14] <mdz> motu discusses their intent with the motu council, gets consensus that they are ready to apply, motu council collects relevant information and submits in a bundle to TB via a wiki page, TB review and respond, usually setting up an appointment to attend a meeting
[10:14] <mdz> (I just heard from sabdfl; he's unavailable)
[10:15] <mdz> __keybuk,mjg59: comments on that proposal?
[10:16] <__keybuk> that sounds exactly like the procedure I thought we agreed on :p
[10:16] <mjg59> Yes, I think that seems reasonable
[10:16] <mdz> __keybuk: I don't recall that we were explicit about core-dev
[10:16] <mdz> only about motu
[10:16] <__keybuk> maybe it's just sensible enough that it sounds like we ought to have agreed on it :p
[10:17] <mdz> well then, ok
[10:17] <mdz> it just needs to be documented then
[10:18] <dholbach> I'll take care of that
[10:18] <mdz> dholbach: would you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewDeveloperProcess ?
[10:18] <mjg59> dholbach: Thanks
[10:18] <dholbach> de rien
[10:18] <mdz> it's pretty close already
[10:18] <LaserJock> I guess I'm a little unsure about the "motu council collects relevant information" part
[10:18] <mdz> the only thing we changed was the way information is passed around, and the order
[10:19] <mdz> turning up for a meeting as the first thing has always been an obstacle
[10:19] <mdz> Hobbsee, if I'm not mistaken, would normally be asleep during TB meetings
[10:19] <mdz> and we don't want to discourage people from applying because of silly things like time zones
[10:20] <mjg59> The impression I get is that the new process is working fairly well for MOTU
[10:20] <mdz> __keybuk and I independently noted that the meeting time ought to be adjusted for DST
[10:20] <mdz> mjg59: indeed, so we're following that lead in a way
[10:21] <mdz> I think it's a good idea to do more by email
[10:21] <mdz> which raises further questions about the meeting
[10:21] <mdz> we could, e.g., schedule the meeting based on who submits agenda items / applies for core-dev / etc. each time
[10:22] <mdz> to maximize attendance, at the expense of predictability
[10:22] <ajmitch> with all the TB in one TZ (I think), is that practical?
[10:22] <mjg59> ajmitch: The plan is for the TB to be extended
[10:22] <mdz> in general, any two time zones can be accomodated at once
[10:22] <ajmitch> mjg59: so I heard, eventually :)
[10:22] <mdz> so TB + applicant is a good combination
[10:23] <__keybuk> mjg59: the one nomination sabdfl has received so far happens to *also* be in the Europe/London timezone :p
[10:23] <mjg59> Ha
[10:23] <mdz> it shouldn't be necessary to have third parties turn up at the meeting, generall. the tech board can raise any questions they have for them by email
[10:23] <mjg59> We could send mdz back to the US
[10:23] <mjg59> But anyway
[10:24] <mdz> so what would you like to do?  move back an hour to stay at 20h London time?
[10:24] <mdz> hold meetings only as needed?
[10:25] <mjg59> 21:00 is certainly a little too late to be convenient for me
[10:25] <mdz> regular meetings are good to keep us in contact and active
[10:25] <mjg59> I'd be concerned that holding meetings as needed would make the TB less visible
[10:25] <mdz> if we all turn up and have nothing to talk about, that's not much better :-)
[10:25] <mjg59> We don't want people who submit items to feel as if they're causing us inconvenience by forcing a meeting to be scheduled
[10:26] <mdz> good point
[10:26] <somerville32> If we don't have anything to talk about, we could just have some tea instead.
[10:26] <mjg59> As a compromise, leave meetings scheduled but cancel them unless there's something on the agenda?
[10:26] <mdz> we could hold meetings at 20h, but be open to adjusting to accomodate someone with an important cause (like joining core-dev)
[10:27] <mjg59> Yes, that seems fair
[10:27] <mdz> __keybuk: thoughts?
[10:27] <LaserJock> well, you could always send an email to -devel-discuss asking for things for the TB to talk about ;-)
[10:27] <mjg59> I think people might also prefer a more obvious mechanism for causing things to be raised
[10:28] <mdz> more obvious than sending email to technical-board?
[10:28] <__keybuk> I think that opportunistically cancelling or rescheduling the meeting would create the same effect as not scheduling in the first place
[10:28] <mjg59> I think the docs suggest just adding things to the agenda?
[10:28] <mdz> they do
[10:28] <mdz> but email works as well if not better, I think
[10:29] <mjg59> Right
[10:29] <mjg59> Then we should fix them to state that :)
[10:29] <mdz> I'll take that action item
[10:29] <mjg59> It also gives us the opportunity to ask people for more details
[10:29] <__keybuk> I also thing that the value of regular meetings of the TB is less than the value of regular meetings of the CC, since the latter is primarily community-driven wherease we're primarily resolving technical disputes (which happily come up hardly at all)
[10:30] <mjg59> I will note that we're poor at cancelling meetings even when it's fairly clear that they're not going ahead
[10:30] <mjg59> Like during UDS
[10:31] <mjg59> Right now the schedule shows us having one during Ubuntu Live
[10:31] <mdz> (TechnicalBoardAgenda updated)
[10:32] <mjg59> mdz: The ubuntu.com page wants updating as well
[10:32] <__keybuk> I think that my preference would be to request matters via e-mail
[10:32] <mjg59> Yes, I think I agree
[10:32] <__keybuk> and if the matter requires online discussion, arrange a meeting on IRC to discuss that item
[10:32] <somerville32> Isn't it entirely possible that TB members could subscribe to changes for that page?
[10:33] <__keybuk> rather than have a fixed schedule for the meetings
[10:33] <somerville32> Ah.
[10:33] <mdz> mjg59: good catch, I'll email webmaster about that
[10:33] <mjg59> somerville32: It's slightly irritating to then have to track that back to somebody's email address
[10:33] <mjg59> And relevant people can't easily be Cc:ed to begin with
[10:33] <__keybuk> I also think that we should be more diligent about announcing resolutions, at least to devel or devel-announce -- including new team memebrs
[10:34] <mdz> agreed
[10:34] <mdz> we need a secretary
[10:34] <mjg59> Any volunteers? :)
[10:35] <mdz> I'm sure we've resolved this at least once before
[10:35] <pochu> s/poinst/points/
[10:35] <mdz> and then fallen out of the habit of posting the outcome of meetings, after several meetings without activity
[10:35] <mjg59> Yes, I think so
[10:35] <mdz> I'll do one for this meeting
[10:36] <mjg59> Ok
[10:36] <mjg59> I think we've reached broad agreement over meeting plans
[10:36] <mdz> ok
[10:36] <mdz> any other business?
[10:36] <__keybuk> have we?
[10:36] <__keybuk> I thought we still had four options and no clear decision
[10:36] <__keybuk> 1) retain existing schedule
[10:36] <__keybuk> 2) alter meeting schedule for daylight savings
[10:36] <__keybuk> 3) 1 or 2, but reschedule or cancel meetings depending on agenda items
[10:36] <__keybuk> 4) ad-hoc schedule meetings to discuss items as and when they are proposed
[10:37] <mjg59> Ah, I thought we were leaning towards (4)
[10:37] <mjg59> As long as we're good at posting outcomes, I think we'll retain enough visibility
[10:38] <mdz> another option would be to come up with something which is useful for us to do together every week
[10:38] <mdz> s/week/two weeks/
[10:38] <Seveas> pochu, ?
[10:38] <mjg59> Paintballing
[10:38] <__keybuk> mjg59++
[10:38] <pochu> Seveas: <       mdz> we need a secretary
[10:38] <pochu> :)
[10:39] <Seveas> heh
[10:39] <pochu> You have experience, don't you? ;)
[10:39] <Seveas> a bit
[10:39] <mdz> mjg59: I was thinking something more like reviewing the work which was done on Ubuntu during the week
[10:39] <mjg59> Ha
[10:39] <mjg59> Yes, ok
[10:39] <__keybuk> we kind of already do that every week anyway, no?
[10:39] <mdz> we do, but individually
[10:40] <mdz> we don't get together and talk about it
[10:40] <mjg59> That arguably gives us an opportunity to ensure things are sane
[10:40] <mdz> and that might be healthy to do
[10:40] <__keybuk> that's an interesting point
[10:40] <mdz> if our only official meeting activity is resolving disputes, we won't have much to say
[10:40] <mjg59> I think I'd be happy with that
[10:41] <mdz> the Ubuntu developer community being such a well-oiled machine
[10:41] <__keybuk> we'd need some intelligent way to define "work done on Ubuntu during the week"
[10:41] <mdz> and then the minutes from that meeting would be a good wrap-up for the community about what's happened
[10:42] <mdz> sounds like something we should talk through by email, it was just a random idea
[10:42] <mdz> can we settle on implementing 2) immediately and discussing other options via email?
[10:42] <mjg59> Yes, ok
[10:42] <mdz> done
[10:42] <__keybuk> I can live with that :)
[10:42] <mjg59> It'll do for now
[10:42] <mjg59> Are we onto AOB?
[10:43] <mdz> yes
[10:43] <mjg59> We've received a request to take a look at Automatix - I think that's a reasonable request given the degree of interaction with the rest of the distribution
[10:44] <mjg59> I've already taken a look over the code, so I'll write up a review document and sent it to the list?
[10:44] <mdz> yes, it's due for another look
[10:44] <mdz> mjg59: oh, fantastic
[10:44] <mdz> I looked at the last version, but haven't looked at the new one
[10:44] <mjg59> Ok. I'll do that, then we can discuss it at the next meeting?
[10:44] <mdz> sure
[10:44] <__keybuk> sure
[10:44] <mjg59> It's probably worth noting it on the agenda, in case the developers want to provide any feedback
[10:45] <mdz> ok
[10:45] <mjg59> I've got nothing else - anyone else?
[10:45] <mdz> I suggested via email that in fact we have the discussion in an open forem
[10:45] <mdz> forum, even
[10:47] <mdz> ok, sounds like we're done
[10:47] <mdz> good night, all
[10:47] <mjg59> Ok
[10:47] <mjg59> Thanks!
[10:47] <somerville32> I have a quick question.
[10:47] <pochu> I can't find it on l.u.c
[10:48] <mdz> pochu: it's not a list as such, ti's just a contact address for the technical board
[10:48] <mdz> so that you can email us all at one address
[10:48] <mjg59> pochu: It's deliberately not publically archived
[10:48] <pochu> mdz: That explains it. Thanks :)
[10:48] <mjg59> In order to allow confidental stuff to be brought up
[10:48] <mjg59> If we have a public discussion, it'll be in a more obvious place :)
[10:49] <pochu> Sure thing. But then you might want to change the address to @ubuntu.com instead of @lists.ubuntu.com? :)
[10:49] <mjg59> Yea, that's an implementation detail
[10:49] <pochu> Yeah, nothing important.
[10:49] <mjg59> It's probably a reasonable idea, though