[00:01] <brousch> rick_h: Have you ever poked at Twisted?
[00:01] <rick_h> brousch: not much or realistically
[00:01] <rick_h> but there's a lot in LP and canonical projects
[00:02] <brousch> Twisted is in LP?
[00:02] <rick_h> yea, some of the backend stuff doing the PPA things and such I think
[00:02] <rick_h> I've not had to mess with it personally
[00:02] <rick_h> I keep meaning to bite the bullet and get the books (they're old though) and try it out as I think async python stuff would be good/cool
[00:06] <brousch> A new one is coming out
[00:06] <rick_h> a new book? That'd be awesome
[00:07] <brousch> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920025016.do
[00:07] <brousch> Looks like it's out now
[00:07] <rick_h> ah, see it as an early release
[00:07] <rick_h> awesome, will get it now
[00:08] <rick_h> DSUG ftw!
[02:38] <snap-l> Evening
[03:14] <shakes808> evening
[03:23] <shakes808> Can anyone shine some light on cpp "undefined reference to [class]" please? Looking through the forums that come up aren't answering my question. It seems to want to blow up on my creation of a class object in main.  I'm porting my tornado app and just going to deploy with gevent/gunicorn so curious what gets built in
[04:28] <rick_h> greg-g: *sigh* though I used to be a wamp and mamp user I guess in the first half of my php days
[04:29] <jrwren> i think what is going to be built in is a stripped down gevent/libevent/libuv like thing made to use yield from to create async generators
[04:29] <jrwren> i am just looking forward to it being standard
[04:29] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, though curious how things like the built in http lib and all that will handle this
[04:30] <rick_h> I mean the thing gevent gives me is the ability to monkey patch the built ins and not need to use the special tornado http client that's async
[04:30] <jrwren> yeah, IMO they need to be augmented from bottom up
[04:30] <rick_h> so that's why i'm curious about how this goes, but it's going to have to be a FULL commitment
[04:30] <rick_h> and a LOT of work
[04:30] <jrwren> but you don't get the benefit unless its async all the way from socket up.
[04:30] <jrwren> exactly.
[04:31] <rick_h> right, so honestly I've not followed the discussion 100% as it seems almost like a py4/async was to py3/unicode kind of thing
[04:31] <rick_h> but who knows I guess.
[04:31]  * rick_h crosses fingers
[04:32] <rick_h> greg-g: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/XYhe7tpQL98OooD4KCWn/ :)
[04:32] <rick_h> merry christmas to me...hopefully...
[04:33] <greg-g> rick_h: niiice!
[04:34] <rick_h> custom made ftw ... hopefully
[04:43] <shakes808> good night
[04:44] <jrwren> i think it will make it into 3.4, but I may be overly optimistic
[04:46] <rick_h> I'm sure there will be a library in 3.4, but I don't think it'll be used in all the underlying libraries for a lot of time to come
[04:47] <jrwren> ah, good point
[04:47] <jrwren> damn shame.
[04:47] <jrwren> and that is what makes twisted awesome.
[11:47] <brousch> East siders, check this out. Star Wars will be in the Garden City parade http://paste.mitechie.com/show/838/
[13:14] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:21] <shakes808> Good morning
[13:21] <shakes808> You're up early
[13:21] <snap-l> Cat is in heat
[13:21] <shakes808> Wasn't expecting activity in here for a while lol
[13:21] <shakes808> AAAAAhhh
[13:21] <snap-l> so sleeping is not an option
[13:22] <shakes808> the annoying cries to be plowed
[13:22] <shakes808> I don't miss that lol
[13:22] <snap-l> Have called the vet, and am trying to figure out how she got Justin Beiber posters in her litterbox
[13:22] <shakes808> HA HA
[13:22] <shakes808> Those shifty Beiber fans are relentless
[13:22] <shakes808> lol
[15:19] <rick_h> lol, morning
[15:23] <rick_h> ah the smell of wood in the morning  https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/AcvRvdozEA7 :)
[15:28] <shakes808> Morning
[15:29] <rick_h> jcastro_: curse you, I went looking at other SE sites and now I'm going to have info overload
[15:37]  * rick_h goes out and cries http://codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/18349/improve-speed-for-looping-through-1-000s-of-items-in-javascript
[15:40] <snap-l> NC dude would have a field day
[15:40] <jcastro_> rick_h: I know right
[15:41] <rick_h> jcastro_: you suck! biking, code review, diy...there went my day!
[15:41] <rick_h> good thing there's no woodworking on
[15:41] <rick_h> /on/one
[15:41] <rick_h> UX one crap!
[15:44]  * rick_h goes and cries some more http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/20525/can-i-make-cabinet-doors-out-of-mdf
[15:49] <jcastro_> I am assembling a workout tower
[15:49] <jcastro_> little by little
[15:49] <jcastro_> but I keep coming back to the computer
[15:58] <jrwren> reminds me i need to checkout ltsp SE
[16:04] <snap-l> rick_h: Hehehehehehehe
[16:05] <snap-l> jcastro_: workout tower?
[17:11] <jcastro_> this pull up thing
[17:11] <jcastro_> that I just put together wrong
[17:12] <jcastro_> so I am taking a break, heh
[17:12] <rick_h> heh, I got one long ago that took me two days to put together
[17:13] <rick_h> I think I had something like 8 full hours into it
[17:13] <jcastro_> this one wasn't bad
[17:14] <jcastro_> I just put the arms facing the wrong way
[17:14] <rick_h> doh
[17:14] <jcastro_> it's an easy fix
[17:14] <jcastro_> just ran out of steam
[17:14] <jcastro_> back to SE for a bit!! :)
[17:16] <rick_h> hah, I was just loading up but it doesn't have a good way to just look at sites you have accounts on
[17:22] <jcastro_> for me or for anyone?
[17:22] <snap-l> Yeah, there's only one drop-down that'll show you what sites you're on
[17:22] <jcastro_> http://stackexchange.com/users/212239/jorge-castro
[17:22] <jcastro_> has them all
[17:23] <rick_h> so I went to stackexchange and when I click the little thing in the top left it shows all sites
[17:23] <rick_h> but I only want a list of ones I'm on
[17:23] <rick_h> I guess it does list under accounts on my page
[17:24] <rick_h> and 'view more' :/
[17:25] <jcastro_> there's a tab for accounts
[17:25] <jcastro_> http://stackexchange.com/users/212239/jorge-castro?tab=accounts
[17:26] <snap-l> jcastro_: Are you going to be able to make it to MUG next week?
[17:26] <jcastro_> depends if mramm goes
[17:26] <jcastro_> I still only have one car and jill works 9-9pm on tuesdays, :-/
[17:27] <rick_h> snap-l: not going to make it. All I'd talk about would be py3 on install anyway
[17:29] <snap-l> jcastro_: Ask Jim Gluting or Dave Satwicz if they'll come get you
[17:29] <snap-l> I think they'd be more than happy
[17:30] <snap-l> rick_h: Bummer
[17:30] <jcastro_> are they in the AA area?
[17:30] <snap-l> They're on the west side, and said they'd make sure you made it
[17:30] <snap-l> I'm bringing a desktop machine with a wireless keyboard so folks can talk about Ubuntu 12.10, stone soup style
[17:41] <jcastro_> woo
[17:41] <jcastro_> I'll ask them
[17:47] <brousch> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/12yuxw/my_new_fridge_runs_linux/
[18:10] <greg-g> anyone here using jabber.org jabber accounts? Can you currently connect? Just diagnosing if it is on my end or theirs
[18:10] <greg-g> I ask because my gtalk login for work works
[18:12] <greg-g> rick_h: what are you making?
[18:21] <rick_h> greg-g: not using jabber.org so can't say
[18:21] <rick_h> greg-g: working on a saw bench hook so I can cut the parts to my drawers for that box I was working on better: http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/bad-axe-bench-hook-sets.html
[18:21] <rick_h> less fancy version
[18:22] <rick_h> greg-g: see
[18:22] <rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t82QZ_g3QPE
[18:29] <greg-g> rick_h: gotcha, awesome.
[18:30] <rick_h> yea, I'll have an action shot in a bit after the glue dries on the other side
[18:30] <rick_h> but yea, need to get to work on the drawers and get that done
[20:04] <rick_h> greg-g: https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/6R8Y6vvooDH
[20:26] <snap-l> rick_h: nice!
[20:26] <snap-l> rick_h: Those are looking quite good
[20:27] <rick_h> it's like programming. You spend 3 days building a tool to help make the original project go easier
[23:23] <rick_h> very cool http://www.issackelly.com/blog/2012/11/10/philips-hue-api-hacking/


[12:17] <kwwii> w00t
[12:17] <kwwii> well, the installation went well
[12:17] <kwwii> I am amazed
[12:20] <kwwii> wow, and the function keys work
[12:48] <Riddell> kwwii: what's that?
[12:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell!!!
[12:49] <Riddell> morning Hobbsee
[12:49] <Hobbsee> heya
[12:50] <Riddell> well I was waiting for the announcement on u-d-a for herd 2 but that doesn't seem to be happening
[12:50] <Hobbsee> Riddell: well, it exists, because i proof read it.
[12:53] <Riddell> well kubuntu.org points to the Herd2 page now
[12:53] <mhb> Hi Riddell, Hobbsee
[12:53] <mhb> Riddell: thanks
[12:53] <Hobbsee> hey mhb :)
[12:54] <mhb> Riddell: it seems screenshots are available too
[12:54] <mhb> http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Kubuntu%207.04%20Alpha%202
[12:57] <kwwii> Riddell: dude, herd2 works great
[12:58] <kwwii> other than the funky installation stuff
[12:58] <kwwii> Riddell: the partioner scared the shit out of me
[12:58] <kwwii> but in the end it works great
[12:58] <Hobbsee> kwwii: why so?
[12:58] <kwwii> Hobbsee: because the first page was empty for about 10 minutes
[12:58] <Hobbsee> ah
[12:58] <kwwii> and then qparted popped up about 100x100
[12:59] <kwwii> and I had no idea what to do with it
[12:59] <kwwii> only after clicking on next did I see the actual partitions to install on
[12:59] <kwwii> very confusing
[12:59] <kwwii> and I kinda know what I am doing in that sense
[12:59] <kwwii> anyway
[01:00] <kwwii> in the end, other than that, I am impressed
[01:00] <kwwii> powermanager works now, as do the special keys to change the monitor brightness, etc
[01:00] <kwwii> much better than edgy
[01:02] <Hobbsee> hehe, nice :)
[01:03] <kwwii> well, let me see if I can get my wlan working :p
[01:03] <kwwii> I am building the latest inkscape now, it seem to build fine
[01:03] <Zerlinna> night all
[01:03] <kwwii> night Zerlinna
[01:04] <Zerlinna> :) bye kwwii
[01:04] <mhb> gute Nacht Zerlinna
[01:04] <Zerlinna> mhb: ;) ... und weg
[01:05] <kwwii> if nothing else, I'l bug someone in oslo about getting the wlan working :p
[01:05] <Hobbsee> kwwii: what's wrong with the wlan?
[01:05] <kwwii> that is the best reason to attend such meetings if you ask me ;-)
[01:06] <kwwii> Hobbsee: this is a ppc machine..gotta cut the openfirmware from the cd, etc.
[01:06] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:06] <kwwii> it worked out of the box on the laptop I bought my wife for christmas
[01:06] <kwwii> I even thought about taking that and buying her a new one
[01:06] <pat__> hey
[01:06] <kwwii> but I think I will buy myself an x-60
[01:06] <bobesponja> hey
[01:07] <Hobbsee> hey bobesponja :)
[01:07] <bobesponja> hey Hobbsee
[01:07] <kwwii> dude, you do not know how much I love sponge bob
[01:07] <bobesponja> kde mounts my ipod as read-only and I can't transfer my mp3s on it, that's weird cause it used to work before
[01:09] <bobesponja> kwwii: any idea what's wrong?
[01:10] <kwwii> bobesponja: no idea, I'll try it with my ipod tomorrow :-)
[01:10] <Hobbsee> bobesponja: is it mounted as root?
[01:10] <kwwii> once I find the cable
[01:11] <bobesponja> Hobbsee: no it's mounted as regular user
[01:11] <Hobbsee> hrm
[01:11] <bobesponja> Hobbsee: using the kautomount or whatever it's called
[01:13] <kwwii> anyone here know where I put that stupid cable?
[01:13] <mhb> kwwii: everyone in germany loves that
[01:14] <bobesponja>  /dev/sdb3 on /media/ipod type hfsplus (rw,nosuid,nodev,uid=1000,gid=1000) that's what mount says
[01:15] <Hobbsee> hrm
[01:15] <Hobbsee> dunno on that one
[01:15] <kwwii> hehe, I found it!
[01:15] <kwwii> amazing
[01:16] <kwwii> man, this evening is going pretty well
[01:17] <kwwii> hrm
[01:17] <kwwii> doesn't work here either
[01:17] <bobesponja> kwwii: do you use edgy with all the latest updates?
[01:17] <kwwii> apparently one needs to add a precommand or such
[01:18] <kwwii> bobesponja: on edgy it worked great for me
[01:18] <kwwii> bobesponja: but on feisty it does not
[01:18] <bobesponja> kwwii: here too but since the latest update it doesn't and I'm still on edgy
[01:18] <kwwii> probably the same problem then
[01:18] <bobesponja> kwwii: what precommand did you use?
[01:18] <kwwii> bobesponja: none
[01:19] <kwwii> on my old edgy system it needs none
[01:19] <bobesponja> the latest update was on the kernel I think
[01:20] <kwwii> well, it does not work here, even with the suggested precommand
[01:21] <kwwii> luckily I still have osx
[01:21] <kwwii> :p
[01:21] <bobesponja> kwwii: what is that suggested pre command?
[01:21] <kwwii> mount %d
[01:21] <kwwii> at least, it says that in the pop-up
[01:22] <kwwii> but even when I try to simply mount it as device it does not work
[01:22] <kwwii> something is wrong on the kernel level, I guess
[01:22] <kwwii> normally it finds it as external drive
[01:23] <kwwii> yepp, on my old edgy system it works fine
[01:24] <bobesponja> kwwii: but is it updated?
[01:25] <kwwii> hrm it says read-only although it mounts it
[01:25] <kwwii> funky
[01:25] <kwwii> yeah, it is updated
[01:25] <kwwii> on feisty it does not work at all
[01:25] <kwwii> not even to mount it
[01:28] <kwwii> well, I can get it working by mounting the device through /media/
[01:28] <kwwii> on edgy that is
[01:28] <kwwii> on feisty it does not work at all
[01:29] <bobesponja> but on edgy can yo uwrite on it ?
[01:30] <kwwii> nope
[01:30] <kwwii> not even as root
[01:31] <kwwii> just tried in the terminal as root
[01:31] <kwwii> fscked up
[01:31] <kwwii> on suse it works great :p
[01:31] <kwwii> then again, I know the guy who takes care of that personally
[01:31] <kwwii> ;-)
[01:32] <bobesponja> kwwii: on suse?
[01:32] <kwwii> always good to have lots of friends who are developers
[01:32] <kwwii> bobesponja: yepp
[01:32] <bobesponja> ok, I'm only on kubuntu :/
[01:32] <kwwii> yeah, in the meantime I only run kubuntu too, but I have one system to test suse
[01:33] <kwwii> and I must say that ipods always work because of Norm (Henne Vogelsang)
[01:33] <kwwii> great guy, but I still won't use suse
[01:33] <kwwii> :p
[01:33] <bobesponja> yep, but I think there's a general problem with mount, not with ipods
[01:34] <bobesponja> anywho, that sucks :/
[01:34] <manchicken> That's okay, SuSE will be in violation of the GPLv3 when it's released anyway.
[01:34] <manchicken> ^_^
[01:34] <kwwii> well, chmod does not work eithUnnamed
[01:34] <kwwii> erm
[01:34] <kwwii> either
[01:35] <kwwii> funky
[01:35] <kwwii> no idea
[01:35] <kwwii> time to reboot into osx where ipods and wlan works :p
[01:35] <kwwii> and the battery more than 1.5 hour lasts
[01:35] <kwwii> funky how bad kubuntu is with the battery
[01:36] <kwwii> I mean, in osx I get 4-5 hours out of it
[01:36] <kwwii> and in linux 1.5
[01:36] <kwwii> horrible, really
[01:36] <kwwii> and I could cook an egg on it
[01:36] <kwwii> my hands start to sweat
[01:37] <bobesponja> kwwii: linux 1.5?
[01:37] <kwwii> one and half hours
[01:38] <kwwii> and it says that my cpu is only running at 833MHz
[01:38] <kwwii> which cannot be right
[01:38] <mhb> kwwii: I have the same problem
[01:38] <kwwii> and/or the powermanager info is incorrect
[01:38] <bobesponja> mhb: does yo ipod work on it?
[01:38] <mhb> kwwii: well, not with the same machine, but it also drains life quickly
[01:39] <mhb> bobesponja: a CD player is all I own, sorry
[01:39] <bobesponja> mhb: but yo udo have a mac though :)
[01:39] <bobesponja> right?
[01:40] <kwwii> I only have macs :-)
[01:40] <kwwii> so I am screwed
[01:40] <kwwii> I guess it is my fault for choosing this job :p
[01:41] <bobesponja> kwwii: what's your job?
[01:41] <kwwii> artist
[01:41] <mhb> bobesponja: not even that ...
[01:42] <bobesponja> kwwii: ever heard of the gimp? :)
[01:42] <kwwii> if I did not have a mac, I would loose lots of jobs and/or have to buy lots of new software which does not work so well and always work around using MS crap
[01:42] <mhb> good night everyone
[01:42] <kwwii> bobesponja: sure, and I use it a lot but that is not realistic in the proffesional art world
[01:42] <kwwii> great stuff, but not ready for the real world yet
[01:43] <kwwii> just try and make decent cmyk stuff with gimp
[01:43] <kwwii> or decent 3d rendering with blender
[01:43] <kwwii> or decent vector art with inkscape
[01:43] <kwwii> it is all the same
[01:43] <bobesponja> kwwii: the elephant movie looked pretty to me
[01:43] <kwwii> it comes close and in some cases I can use it, but mainly I need real software
[01:44] <kwwii> bobesponja: naaaa, they spent months on making those few minutes
[01:44] <kwwii> sorry, but that is not realistic
[01:44] <bobesponja> kwwii: that's because they were few people working on it
[01:44] <kwwii> I could show you things I made that are as good as that which only took me a few weeks
[01:45] <kwwii> bobesponja: I did stuff like that alone within weeks
[01:45] <kwwii> I mean, I know some of the people who did that, and I am impressed that they got that far
[01:45] <kwwii> but it is not ready for the real world yet
[01:46] <kwwii> I do a lot of video editing...what does one use in linux? nothing is as good as the hardware stuff available for other systems
[01:46] <bobesponja> wow then if you can do movies like the elephant in few weeks, why don't you make an entire movie like this? that would be like a new pixar or something in less than a year
[01:46] <kwwii> I have a media100 system (used for making quite a few films) and it is way better than anything under linux
[01:47] <kwwii> bobesponja: I have made two music videos and quite a few commerials for siemens with that sytem
[01:47] <kwwii> not mention quite a few other smaller companies
[01:47] <kwwii> the hard part is getting into the business
[01:48] <kwwii> no, a few minutes is one thing, and *really* hard
[01:48] <kwwii> making a whole film is something completely different
[01:48] <kwwii> and making it really proffesional is another step above that
[01:49] <kwwii> trust me, if you have never worked in the field it all looks a lot easier than you would guess
[01:50] <bobesponja> kwwii: do you do artwork for kubuntu?
[01:50] <kwwii> bobesponja: yepp
[01:50] <bobesponja> kwwii: I know it's hard, that's why I'm surprised yo ucould do the same as the elephant in few weeks
[01:51] <bobesponja> but I think they worked on new features in the process, that's why it took so much time plus it's very polished
[01:51] <kwwii> well, with propriatary systems you buy plugins (or write them yourself and sell them as we did) and it is a lot easier
[01:51] <kwwii> yeah, that is exactly the point
[01:52] <kwwii> they had to develop the software for more than half of what they did
[01:52] <kwwii> making things move like real bodies, etc
[01:52] <kwwii> not to mention that the renderer itself is simply not the same quality as proprietary sytems
[01:52] <kwwii> that is why people pay money for thingts
[01:53] <kwwii> things move so fast in that world that you either keep up, push things further or fall behind
[01:53] <kwwii> it really costs a lot of money
[01:53] <kwwii> no matter what
[01:53] <bobesponja> apache is free and it's better than anything out there, so you don't _allways_ have to pay money for things
[01:53] <kwwii> and remeber that they got a lot of money to do what they did
[01:53] <kwwii> it is not like they did it for free
[01:54] <kwwii> yeah, but that kind of stuff is different than multimedia stuff
[01:54] <kwwii> trust me, try it and find out
[01:57] <bobesponja> it's not different,  they just need to catch up a little, they'll probably get there in a couple or year
[01:57] <bobesponja> of year
[01:59] <kwwii> maybe in several years but by then the expensive software will be way beyond that
[02:00] <kwwii> of course, there are parts of it that is very usable but there are effects that are created new for every new project
[02:00] <kwwii> you cannot imagine how much money is put into such stuff
[02:00] <kwwii> that is why I got out of the business even though I was paying lots of money for software and trying to write certain parts myself
[02:01] <bobesponja> yes but they can't beat a community of thousands of developpers, just like microsoft couldn't do better than firefox with ie7 even though it has billions
[02:02] <kwwii> sure, maybe in 20 years we will have that kind of thing
[02:02] <kwwii> but for now, that world is not the world of most open source devs
[02:02] <bobesponja> lol 20 years? yo must be new to FOSS
[02:02] <kwwii> although they could rock in it and make killer shit, it is not *that* hard
[02:02] <kwwii> in the end it is replicating physics or faking it
[02:02] <kwwii> but there is not enough interest in it
[02:03] <kwwii> instead we have 5 text editors
[02:03] <kwwii> I mean, why doesn't linux have really good vector editor yet?
[02:03] <kwwii> that would be the first thing you need to make good 3d graphic s
[02:03] <kwwii> but even that is missing
[02:04] <bobesponja> inkscape is half way there already
[02:04] <kwwii> yeah, exactly, it is halfway there
[02:04] <kwwii> and how well can I use a program that is halfway there as artists
[02:04] <kwwii> well, I get 50% of what I want out of it
[02:05] <kwwii> if I really know what I am doing, I get 70%
[02:05] <kwwii> believe me, I try to use inkscape as much as possible
[02:05] <kwwii> but I have a list of things that are missing since years
[02:05] <kwwii> and the never get done
[02:06] <kwwii> because nobody cares
[02:06] <bobesponja> well if you can do 70% with a new project like inkscape I guess in a couple of years it should be 100% :)
[02:06] <kwwii> devs think they are unimportant
[02:06] <bobesponja> well, devs work for free so...
[02:06] <kwwii> they would rather tell me how amazing it as and how if I worked around that stuff and accepted that it is not possible I could make good work
[02:07] <kwwii> yepp, true, and I accept that
[02:07] <kwwii> but still
[02:07] <kwwii> reality is reality
[02:07] <kwwii> and I need to earn money
[02:07] <kwwii> heck, just try to make anything in cmyk in linux
[02:07] <bobesponja> krita
[02:07] <kwwii> forget it
[02:07] <kwwii> you cannot proof it
[02:07] <kwwii> so you make some file but you do not know how it really looks
[02:08] <kwwii> and that does not go over well with the company who is paying you money
[02:08] <bobesponja> krita does manage cmyk
[02:08] <kwwii> when they pay money for the print stuff and it looks different than the stuff on the screen
[02:08] <kwwii> no, krita includes that colorscpace
[02:08] <kwwii> tha is all
[02:08] <kwwii> that
[02:09] <kwwii> it cannot show me how it will look when printed
[02:09] <kwwii> every printer is different
[02:09] <kwwii> and has a profile
[02:09] <kwwii> I need that info to know how it will really look in the end
[02:09] <kwwii> honestly, it is like me saying "coding is just a text file"
[02:09] <bobesponja> there are some open printers drivers
[02:10] <kwwii> why can't I just write a simple text file saying what I need
[02:10] <kwwii> yeah, there are a few
[02:10] <kwwii> and they do not even work that well
[02:10] <kwwii> nor do most of the printers use them
[02:10] <kwwii> and what about fonst?
[02:10] <kwwii> fonst
[02:10] <kwwii> ahhh
[02:10] <kwwii> fonts
[02:10] <kwwii> lets use open source fonts!
[02:11] <kwwii> hahaha
[02:11] <kwwii> forget it
[02:11] <kwwii> the spacing it wrong
[02:11] <kwwii> the font hints are crap
[02:11] <kwwii> or missing
[02:11] <kwwii> forget it
[02:11] <bobesponja> they look good to me
[02:11] <kwwii> yeah
[02:11] <bobesponja> and there are plenty of them
[02:11] <kwwii> sure
[02:11] <kwwii> try and make money with taht
[02:12] <kwwii> believe me
[02:12] <kwwii> I have had this conversation with sooooo many people
[02:12] <kwwii> it is as naive as me saying a source file is a text file
[02:12] <bobesponja> hmm, well it is a text file
[02:13] <kwwii> sorry, but developers then to think things are sooo simple becuase they can do what they do
[02:13] <manchicken> kwwii: So join the project.
[02:14] <kwwii> honestly, if you were in the business you would see why things are as they are, anything else is naive
[02:14] <kwwii> manchicken: which project?
[02:14] <manchicken> kwwii: And coding IS just working with a text file ^_^
[02:14] <manchicken> inkscape
[02:14] <kwwii> and how much time do I have as artist to do that kind of thing
[02:14] <bobesponja> yep, a source file is a textfile
[02:15] <kwwii> manchicken: I have entered important bugs in inkscape years ago, but they ignore them
[02:15] <manchicken> kwwii: No less than I have as a programmer.
[02:15] <manchicken> kwwii: So help.
[02:15] <kwwii> because they mistakingly think they know better
[02:15] <manchicken> That's what I do.
[02:15] <kwwii> it is sad
[02:15] <manchicken> So make some free software fonts.
[02:15] <kwwii> I have soo much good input
[02:15] <kwwii> and they ignore it
[02:15] <manchicken> But no help
[02:15] <kwwii> but luckily the koffice people are listening
[02:15] <kwwii> the new koffice stuff should be pretty good
[02:16] <kwwii> at least in the vector tools
[02:16] <manchicken> You've gotta be willing to do more than complain and suggest.  At the very least join in on the QA stuff.
[02:16] <kwwii> dude, making fonts is something that people do for a fulltime job
[02:16] <bobesponja> manchicken: he does  artwork for kubuntu though
[02:16] <manchicken> That's good ^_^
[02:16] <kwwii> I could not do that without years of experience
[02:17] <manchicken> kwwii: Nonsense.
[02:17] <kwwii> no, not nonsense
[02:17] <kwwii> try it
[02:17] <Hobbsee> hehe.  i think manchicken just suffered from an episode of "foot in mouth" disease there
[02:17] <manchicken> kwwii: I have.
[02:17] <kwwii> and try to earn money with it
[02:17] <kwwii> honestly
[02:17] <kwwii> it is easy to make one that looks good to you
[02:17] <kwwii> but make one that is really good
[02:17] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Naw, I just see people complaining about things that they're not willing to fix, and have to point out the obvious solution. ^_^
[02:18] <kwwii> nothing in the opensource world comes close to arial or any of the other
[02:18] <kwwii> s
[02:18] <manchicken> kwwii: I earn money with Free software every day.
[02:18] <bobesponja> manchicken: what's your job?
[02:18] <kwwii> but not with fonts
[02:18] <manchicken> I'm a programmer.
[02:18] <manchicken> kwwii: How hard is it to make a font?
[02:18] <bobesponja> manchicken: I know :) but who do yo work for?
[02:18] <kwwii> lool
[02:18] <kwwii> lol
[02:18] <kwwii> rotfl
[02:18] <kwwii> exactly
[02:19] <kwwii> how hard is it
[02:19] <kwwii> and how would you know?
[02:19] <manchicken> bobesponja: I work for an advertising company.  We provide online advertising services.
[02:19] <manchicken> kwwii: Can't be that hard.
[02:19] <kwwii> and how many open source fonts does your company use?
[02:19] <kwwii> manchicken: WRONG
[02:19] <bobesponja> kwwii: dejavu looks better tan arial to me
[02:20] <kwwii> yeah, to the blind eye it is great
[02:20] <manchicken> kwwii: Software services don't really make much use of fonts.
[02:20] <kwwii> and for online purposes some of them are ok
[02:20] <crimsun> dude, typography is friggin hard
[02:20] <kwwii> people earn millions making fonts
[02:20] <manchicken> So?
[02:21] <kwwii> it is naivite to think that everything is simple
[02:21] <kwwii> yepp
[02:21] <kwwii> honestly
[02:21] <manchicken> Simple?  No.
[02:21] <manchicken> Possible to help, yes.
[02:22] <bobesponja> I guess I must be blind then 8)
[02:22] <kwwii> perhaps one day things will be different but to ask people who need to pay their rent and feed their kids to use such stuff is silliness
[02:22] <kwwii> anyway
[02:22] <kwwii> time for bed
[02:23] <manchicken> kwwii: It must be nice to complain about something you're unwilling to help.
[02:23] <kwwii> see you all tomorrow
[02:23] <kwwii> manchicken: dude, I do help, all the time
[02:23] <kwwii> why do you think I am here?
[02:23] <kwwii> I mean, I have only done open source stuff for 9 years now
[02:23] <crimsun> I think he has a "right" to complain as the kubuntu artwork lead.
[02:23] <kwwii> but that does not change the facts all the sudden
[02:23] <bobesponja> kwwii: using propriatary software?
[02:23] <manchicken> Then why not help out with fonts then?
[02:24] <kwwii> bobesponja: for certain things, like printing, yes
[02:24] <kwwii> manchicken: why don't you work as an architect?
[02:24] <manchicken> kwwii: I don't want to, and I have no desire to.
[02:24] <kwwii> it is a specialty
[02:24] <manchicken> Naw.
[02:24] <kwwii> and I have no desire to work in that specialty
[02:25] <kwwii> oh, yes it is
[02:25] <kwwii> and if you say different then you prove your ignorance
[02:25] <manchicken> That's the problem I have with traditional thinking like that.  what says I can't learn to do architecture?
[02:25] <kwwii> ever heard of font hinting?
[02:25] <crimsun> he's not saying you can't learn
[02:25] <manchicken> Nope.  I don't do the font thing.  But if I had a problem, I could learn.
[02:25] <kwwii> honestly, it is really hard
[02:25] <manchicken> Have you tried?
[02:25] <manchicken> I think you could do well if you tried.
[02:26] <kwwii> and I am not about to start working on something that I simply do not have enough time to get really good at
[02:26] <kwwii> yes, I have treid
[02:26] <kwwii> tried
[02:26] <kwwii> I made the suse font
[02:26] <kwwii> out of several other fonts
[02:26] <manchicken> Then you *ARE* helping ^_^
[02:26] <kwwii> and it is still shit, when it comes to printing
[02:26] <manchicken> And you should have said that before.
[02:26] <manchicken> :)
[02:26] <kwwii> :p
[02:26] <crimsun> he did
[02:26] <manchicken> No, he said he did artwork ;)
[02:27] <manchicken> (and HE didn't say it, someone else did)
[02:27] <manchicken> :P
[02:27] <bobesponja> i did :)
[02:27] <manchicken> I don't know art from fart, but that never stopped me from trying.
[02:28] <bobesponja> art from fart? let me note that down :)
[02:28] <manchicken> bobesponja: It's a good one.  Use it.
[02:28] <manchicken> Back in a bit.
[02:29] <kwwii> oh mean
[02:29] <kwwii> mean
[02:29] <kwwii> ahhh
[02:29] <kwwii> man
[02:29] <kwwii> bobesponja: have a bit of respect for things you know nothing about
[02:30] <kwwii> I try as hard as I can to do everything with OSS
[02:30] <kwwii> and to further that
[02:30] <kwwii> but reality is reality
[02:30] <kwwii> sorry if you don't like it
[02:30] <kwwii> but that is life
[02:30] <kwwii> and with that, I am out
[02:30] <bobesponja> kwwii: I think you're mistaking me with manchicken I didn't say nothing for a while
[02:30] <bobesponja> :)
[02:30] <bobesponja> good night
[02:30] <kwwii> perhaps
[02:30] <kwwii> anyway
[02:30] <Hobbsee> kwwii: you do a good job ;)
[02:31] <kwwii> I am tired and probably missed a lot
[02:31] <kwwii> Hobbsee: thanks :-)
[02:31] <kwwii> see you all tomorrow
[02:31] <bobesponja> kwwii: I'm sure you do
[02:31] <bobesponja> a good job
[02:32] <kwwii> yeah, reading back I see that I wanted to respond to manchicken
[02:32] <kwwii> sorry
[02:32] <bobesponja> no problem
[02:32] <kwwii> one day I am going to go into a devel channel and give devs nothing but shit for never making a decent vector editor
[02:33] <kwwii> I mean, how hard can it be? :-)
[02:33] <Hobbsee> kwwii: heh.  you'll get banned, probably :P
[02:33] <bobesponja> it's easy, that's why we're already half way there with inkscape and koffice
[02:33] <kwwii> hey, I have a new icon I need a program for
[02:33] <bobesponja> :p
[02:33] <kwwii> lol
[02:34] <kwwii> actually, I have big hopes for the new koffice stuff
[02:34] <bobesponja> kwwii: what part of it does vercot? karbon?
[02:34] <kwwii> they really have listened to what we want and asked question after question
[02:34] <bobesponja> vector
[02:35] <kwwii> bobesponja: nope, it is a kpart for everything in koffice
[02:35] <kwwii> so it is in all of koffice
[02:35] <kwwii> which ROCKS
[02:35] <bobesponja> i see
[02:35] <bobesponja> it's that flake
[02:35] <kwwii> exactly
[02:35] <kwwii> not a kpart
[02:35] <kwwii> sorry
[02:35] <kwwii> stupid artists
[02:36] <kwwii> but anyway, they have done everything we wanted (after I bitched for years)
[02:36] <kwwii> I am amazed at the work they have done
[02:36] <bobesponja> but when you say vector, do you mean svg?
[02:37] <bobesponja> I thought flake was only about inserting shapes into documents
[02:37] <bobesponja> not a svg thing
[02:37] <kwwii> no, I mean the tools used to make vectors
[02:37] <kwwii> the export functions are something else
[02:37] <kwwii> and I hope that we will have a decent vector export as well
[02:37] <kwwii> for karbon
[02:37] <kwwii> until now nobody wants to work on karbon
[02:38] <kwwii> in fact, I can imagine that it willl die
[02:38] <kwwii> since nobody wants to work on it
[02:38] <kwwii> but then perhaps manchicken has time
[02:38] <kwwii> :p
[02:38] <kwwii> I mean, how hard can it be :-)
[02:38] <kwwii> adobe earned millions with illustraotr
[02:38] <kwwii> illustrator
[02:39] <kwwii> perhaps we can gain millions of users with karbon
[02:39] <kwwii> the interface is amazing anyway
[02:39] <kwwii> but the usage has been shit
[02:39] <bobesponja> he don't need it and don't complain about it so he won't work on it as it seems that he only work on projects he needs liek all of us
[02:39] <kwwii> and the functionalitxy was never on fifth as good as the interface
[02:39] <kwwii> anyway
[02:39] <kwwii> time for bed
[02:40] <kwwii> sleep well
[02:40] <kwwii> see you all tomorrow
[02:40] <bobesponja> nighty night
[02:43] <manchicken|away> later
[04:17] <DaSkreech> Who Would I speak to get the database of hardware?
[04:18] <ash211> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ ?
[04:19] <Hobbsee> okay, feisty's printing sucks!
[04:20] <ash211> DaSkreech: try https://launchpad.net/~ogra
[04:20] <ash211> he maintains hwdb-client
[04:21] <ash211> and is its bugcontact
[04:21] <DaSkreech> Well I was thining of the data for knoware client
[04:21] <DaSkreech>  Though I should probably get some more Knoware stuff down first :(
[04:22] <ash211> i have no idea then
[04:23] <DaSkreech> ash211: Actually you
[04:23] <DaSkreech> 've been a great help
[04:23] <ash211> anytime
[05:48] <manchicken> Why can't I figure out where it's updating this bloody UI?!
[06:28] <manchicken> I can't find a corresponding insertItem() call to the packages in adept that would populate the list of packages.
[09:28] <mhb> good morning
[12:58] <Lure> Riddell: when trying to build pykdextensions (to switch pykde3/guidance to 2.5), I get this strange error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1542/
[12:58] <Lure> Riddell: it looks like "g++ -pthread" is added to command line twice, but have no clue from where this could come :-(
[01:27] <Riddell>  /win 88
[01:28] <fdoving> 88 is alot.
[01:29] <Riddell> it's only half way
[01:30] <Riddell> Lure: dunno I'm afraid, sime would be the expert there
[01:30] <Riddell> Lure: but pykde3 isn't 2.5 yet so I'd wait for that
[01:32] <elcuco> does anyone know who handles the power managment application i see on my systray?
[01:32] <elcuco> kde? ubuntu? where shuold i open bugs?
[01:32] <Riddell> guidance is the source package
[01:32] <Riddell> although bugs might be the fault of hal
[01:34] <elcuco> it's just gui problems
[01:34] <elcuco> the application tells me "you have 5 minutes of battery, i am hibernating"
[01:35] <elcuco> it would be nice if i get a warning 10 minutes before, "we are going down in 5 minutes, be prepared"
[01:35] <elcuco> (happened to me yesterday, this just stinks when you are writing something and suddenly the computer shuts down)
[01:35] <Riddell> yep
[01:39] <elcuco> so, on kde's bugzilla? or kubuntu luanchpad?
[01:40] <fdoving> ping lure about it.
[01:41] <Riddell> elcuco: launchpad
[01:41] <Riddell> actually the source package is kde-guidance
[01:45] <elcuco> he, thats your package no?
[01:52] <Riddell> not especially
[01:53] <elcuco> crap my english is rubbish (bug 79225)
[01:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79225 in Ubuntu "kde-guidance should announce it's hibernating" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79225
[01:55] <fdoving> confirmed.
[01:55] <elcuco> fdoving: you is the kick as master :)
[01:57] <Lure> Riddell: pykde3 could work with 2.5, we just need pykdeextensions to work properly ;-)
[01:58] <Lure> elcuco: it should have low battery announcement, but it does not say what it will do
[01:58] <Lure> elcuco: will verify
[04:06] <Lure> Riddell: interesting - pykdeextensions as in the archive does not build - same error
[06:57] <jjesse> anything i can to troubleshoot why my laptop keeps freezing/stop responding on edgy?
[08:27] <bddebian> Heya
[08:35] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[08:35] <bddebian> Hi ryanakca
[08:36] <ryanakca> probably my monitor :)
[08:43] <Lure> Riddell, imbrandon (or any other core-dev): can you upload http://lure.lu.funpic.de/kubuntu/feisty/py2.5/py-kde3.debdiff
[08:52] <fdoving> jjesse: i had that problem on edgy, it was the bcm43xx wlan driver.
[09:00] <jjesse> fdoving: i am not using the bcm43xx driver that i know of
[09:00] <jjesse> easiest way to check?
[09:01] <fdoving> jjesse: lsmod|grep bcm
[09:02] <jjesse> nope not using it
[09:02] <fdoving> ok. that was my $0.2
[09:03] <fdoving> tv bbl.
[09:03] <jjesse> thansk :)
[09:08] <wgw> hi
[09:08] <wgw> I had heard that the Kubuntu project was short of graphics designers?
[09:12] <kwwii> wgw: definitely
[09:12] <kwwii> wgw: I have been doing quite a bit of work on the artwork for the last two releases
[09:14] <wgw> I'm a designer (among other things), primarily from the branding sidde
[09:14] <wgw> but I'm interested in getting into interaction design and doing GPL and BSD licensed design for FOSS projects
[09:14] <wgw> so if you'd like a hand, I might be willing to help out
[09:14] <kwwii> wgw: sounds great!
[09:15] <wgw> one question though, does Shuttleworth control the Kubuntu artwork?
[09:15] <kwwii> lol
[09:15] <wgw> because I don't want to wind up like the designers who were working on Ubuntu 6
[09:15] <kwwii> well, I was the "artist in chief" for kubuntu last time around, and he actually stayed out of it completely
[09:16] <kwwii> so, the answer is no
[09:16] <kwwii> ubuntu is, in a way, his baby ;-)
[09:16] <kwwii> we have much free-er reign over kubuntu
[09:16] <wgw> do you work for Canonical?
[09:18] <kwwii> wgw: good question...my answer would be "today, no...next week, yes"
[09:18] <wgw> ok
[09:18] <wgw> well it sounds interesting
[09:18] <kwwii> I had two short term contracts for both dapper and edgy
[09:19] <wgw> I also like the sort of Africanness of Ubuntu, having done some consulting work in Ghana
[09:19] <kwwii> and I'll be working for them again, although I am not 100% certain exactly what my job will entail yet
[09:19] <wgw> which is of course quite different from South Africa
[09:19] <wgw> although a lot of the businesses seem to be run by South Africans
[09:19] <kwwii> wgw: I really love the colors and feeling in the ubuntu stuff
[09:19] <wgw> yes, I love the color palette
[09:19] <kwwii> very warm and friendly
[09:19] <wgw> it was really daring to go for the brown
[09:19] <wgw> and it makes it look unique
[09:19] <wgw> rather than like a Windows clone
[09:20] <kwwii> definitely
[09:20] <kwwii> have you seen edgy?
[09:20] <wgw> I haven't used Kubuntu yet, I guess I'd better reinstall Ubuntu into a virtual machine and then install the Kubuntu and Xubuntu packages
[09:20] <wgw> not yet
[09:20] <kwwii> I kinda went in the direction of purple
[09:21] <wgw> purple can be interesting, although you'll want to avoid looking too much like Gentoo
[09:21] <kwwii> although the colors used are not really purple, people tend to think they are
[09:21] <kwwii> yeah, that is true (and you are the first one to mention that)
[09:21] <kwwii> very good point though
[09:22] <wgw> what I'm really hoping to do in terms of interaction design is to execute an idea I have for a new type of program launching/file browsing/desktop type of affair
[09:22] <wgw> it will be a GPL-licensed UI that will essentially be installed as a mod of GNOME or KDE
[09:22] <wgw> (rather than as a completely seperate desktop environment)
[09:22] <kwwii> wow, that sounds killer
[09:23] <kwwii> sounds like the stuff I have heard many large companies asking for
[09:23] <wgw> as I see it, a really good UI is needed to help Linux compete with Mac OS X, and to a lesser extent, Vista, although I see Mac OS X being increasingly the biggest competitor of FOSS operating systems
[09:23] <kwwii> yeah, me too (I only have macs at home)
[09:23] <wgw> because people are already recognizing that they should get off Windows, and at the moment, the Apple, with its really sharp UI, offers the most compelling platform for them to do it with
[09:23] <kwwii> I see mac going in the direction of smaller devices with simplified interfaces to "just get the job done"
[09:24] <wgw> right
[09:24] <kwwii> in the end, you have to ask yourself what people really use their computers for
[09:24] <wgw> I also use a Mac, although in terms of hardware I'm an IBM fanboy
[09:24] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:24] <wgw> I use IBM/Lenovo peripherals with all my hardware, even if its not IBM
[09:24] <kwwii> actually I am thinking about getting an x-60
[09:24] <wgw> my Mac uses a 17" ThinkVision monitor on a radial arm, for instance
[09:24] <kwwii> just so that things simply work after installation
[09:24] <wgw> I use the X41T, its quite nice
[09:25] <wgw> I'm about to buy another ThinkPad laptop, and later in the year I'm hoping to add a ThinkCentre desktop and maybe an IBM Intellistation
[09:25] <wgw> depending on how well my business does this year, I would love to drop $20k on a high end Intellistation for graphics work
[09:26] <kwwii> hehe, and I am giving out all my money on a new camera :p
[09:27] <wgw> my plan regarding the GUI is to build up experience first doing smaller projects for distros etc, and in the process hopefully meet some developers who can code the thing when I'm ready to do it
[09:28] <wgw> initially as a plug in for GNOME, since all the really hot distros seem to prefer it these days
[09:28] <kwwii> well, a few of the big ones do seem to love gnome
[09:29] <kwwii> although many more smaller distris use kde
[09:29] <wgw> I think they both suck, to be honest, but at least we have them
[09:29] <kwwii> lol
[09:29] <kwwii> rotfl
[09:29] <kwwii> as an artist it is hard to use only linux
[09:29] <wgw> I especially hate the way they render type
[09:30] <kwwii> but if you are going to work on it, you have to use it too
[09:30] <kwwii> yeah, that is one of my biggest complaints
[09:30] <wgw> I seriously prefer Windows with no anti-aliasing to Linux in terms of type display
[09:30] <wgw> I was able to get Sun Microsystems Solaris to display type correctly in its GNOME implementation, however
[09:30] <wgw> by turning hinting completely off
[09:31] <wgw> and in PC-BSD (which I'm running now) it occasionally works quite well, although at other times it will break completely and you'll get some really crappy effects
[09:31] <kwwii> I guess that is due to the lack of a good font
[09:31] <wgw> no, I've installed "good fonts" and it still looks like garbage
[09:31] <kwwii> and/or good hinting software
[09:31] <wgw> the kerning pairs are wrong
[09:31] <wgw> and the letterforms are sort of distorted
[09:32] <wgw> anyway, if you'd like I can send you an e-mail with my contact details
[09:32] <kwwii> I would love that
[09:32] <kwwii> kwwii at bootsplash dot org
[09:32] <wgw> or however you want to proceed so that I can begin my volunteering
[09:32] <wgw> ok
[09:32] <kwwii> I am in chat pretty much every day
[09:32] <wgw> perfectg
[09:33] <wgw> I'm going to send you an e-mail, and then I've got to sign off, but I'll probably check in here at some point tomorrow
[09:33] <kwwii> great, nice to meet you ;-)
[09:33] <wgw> you too, take care
[09:33] <wgw> bye
[09:33] <kwwii> bye
[09:36] <tackat> hi
[09:36] <tackat> can anybody tell me how to resolve this issue:
[09:36] <tackat> *** YOU'RE USING autoheader (GNU Autoconf) 2.61.
[09:36] <tackat> *** KDE requires autoconf 2.53 or newer
[09:37] <tackat> I tried commenting out the buggy autoconf recognition in admin/cvs.sh but that only triggers another issue ...
[09:38] <tackat> *** Creating Makefile templates
[09:38] <tackat> /usr/bin/autoconf: unrecognized option `--trace=_LT_AC_TAGCONFIG:$f:$l::$n::${::}%'
[10:25] <manchicken> Bears won.
[10:29] <Riddell> tackat: try http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/autoconf2.60.diff
[10:40] <kwwii> well, my computer booted feisty herd2 a few times and now it oops on boot
[10:54] <nixternal> http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=16942
[10:55] <nixternal> ^^ for anyone who hasn't seen it, reference the comments section
[10:55] <nixternal> someone references a plastik theme and thinks microsoft had something to do with it, pretty scarey
[10:57] <kwwii> lol
[10:57] <kwwii> stupid crap
[10:57] <nixternal> hehe
[10:57] <kwwii> no worries
[10:58] <nixternal> every now and then though you can get some decent feedback from the comments, unless of course they come from the uneducated
[10:58] <nixternal> what color are we looking at for feisty? any ideas yet?
[10:59] <kwwii> no idea
[11:07] <fdoving> nixternal: i belive the only microsoft-ish thing in that screenshot is the font.
[11:36] <manchicken> green!!!
[11:36] <manchicken> Because when I think feisty, I think green ;)
[11:37] <kwwii> oh dude, I did green for sooooo long
[11:37] <manchicken> *whiney* but it's my favorite color!
[11:38] <manchicken> (I really don't care)
[11:38] <manchicken> (I set my own colors)
[11:38] <manchicken> We could use to have more default color sets.
[11:38] <manchicken> I should submit my current color theme.
[11:38] <manchicken> ^_^
[11:39] <kwwii> hehe, yeah
[11:39] <kwwii> you can do artwork too!
[11:39] <manchicken> I can *try* to do artwork.
[11:39] <manchicken> But I will most likely fail ^_^
[11:39] <manchicken> But that won't stop me from trying.
[11:40] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:44] <Tm_T> manchicken: I will stop you...
[11:45] <kwwii> time for bed
[11:45] <manchicken> Ooh.
[11:45] <kwwii> night all


[00:32] <tsimonq2> Hi wxl
[12:52] <mig_> i have a question about tiling
[13:01] <mig_> in the latest version you can tile by using SUPER + arrow keys, but when i put a window in the left (or right) half of the screen there's still room left between the window and the task bar
[13:01] <mig_> can this be fixed?
[13:51] <krytarik> mig_: Just found LP bug 1266138.
[13:53] <mig_> ah, thanks
[13:56] <mig_> it's silly they haven't yet fixed this :-)
[13:57] <krytarik> Yet, I shall say. :P
[14:00] <mig_> ah, nice


 i've heard the usb port on MX4 isn't very reliable
 selecting language
 This seems more of an recovery adbd or kernel issue more then a usb issue. but not sure
 thank U Marius
 @NikosChat, No problem! fixed the two bugs we had https://github.com/ubports/ubports-installer/commit/7860edd94969cc4346fa5ef0d89f87f50e370721 and https://github.com/ubports/ubports-installer/commit/bafe820e7253f170e79368ba2c7db97e80a03cea
[00:25] <ubports_bot> Yippee, build fixed!
[00:25] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #330: FIXED in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/330/
 I... it was broken?
[00:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1061: SUCCESS in 1 min 45 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1061/
 lauchpad responed 504 last time
 (Photo, 1280x759) https://irc.ubports.com/TrKRv0ke/file_745.jpg
 @mariogrip, Triggered
 ubports thank you for ota-2
 I just downloaded it and enabled the dash background right away —awesome
 very exciting :)
 while I've been lurking I saw that oxide had been updated... and then later I saw that oxide was reverted back to a previous version because of issues around newer versions... is oxide updated as part of the ota-2?
 I made a flashcard webapp which feels choppy still on nexus5 ubports ota-2, but which runs smoothly on a nexus4 ubuntu-touch
 No, we had to revert
 oh ok thanks
 Didn't work right on one phone
 I'm glad it works as good as it does :)
 faster is better but stable is best
 you can try https://launchpad.net/~mariogrip/+archive/ubuntu/oxide if you want
 @mariogrip thanks
 Thanks for ota 2 awesome work guys......
 😆
[01:05] <tgBot10> <raphael default> (Photo, 409x157) https://irc.ubports.com/gHNezQ2X/file_747.jpg When will it be ready? Does it mean it works with limitations or doesn’t it work at all for now?
 @raphael default, I will get the debug device hopefully monday, we have been wating for a new debug device for a litte while, sorry for that
 @raphael default, It does not work at all, fairphone changed the screen to a different one, and that made some issues with our builds
[01:13] <tgBot10> <raphael default> @mariogrip, oh thats bad I've just ordered one. How difficult is it to debug it by my self?
 I belive there is some kernel patches that is needed, so it's not "easy"
 but if you want, you can send me some logs maybe
[01:20] <tgBot10> <raphael default> What do you mean with "debug device", is there a port to jtag, or is it just via usb?
 No, just a phone with the newer keyboard
 What was I thinking. New keyboard?
 OP3 working with halium & ubports is exciting news...
 It's still early days, so don't get too excited. :)
 Well, "working" in the sense that Marius is working on it ☺
 Big thanks to all devs and testers about new ota2 update! Keep up good work! 👍
 I fixed the BQ M10 FHD boot bug https://github.com/ubports/ubports-touch/issues/53
 fix pushed to devel
[04:06] <tgBot10> Ferdieofficial was added by: Ferdieofficial
 @mariogrip, Even hotstar or ozee does not work with ut browser does this update resolve issue?
 BEAUTIFULL OTA 2 IT LOOKS SO SLICK  ... THANKS CARRY ON LIKE THIS
 Is there an openstore group in telegram as announced o open store.ubports.com?
 Interesting info for all developer : @hwpplayer1and @popeydc have created a new group for the Ubuntu SDK and convergence @uniy8sdk
 Just upgrade to OTA2, Nice work guys
[07:01] <ubports_bot> Project click-import build #4: SUCCESS in 4.6 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/click-import/4/
[07:01] <ubports_bot> Project vivid-rootfs-armhf build #139: SUCCESS in 1.4 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/vivid-rootfs-armhf/139/
[07:01] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1062: SUCCESS in 0.48 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1062/
[07:03] <tgBot10> Metaroka was added by: Metaroka
 Welcome :)
 Tnx
[07:05] <tgBot10> <Joe Reggae> r2 is awesome ! Thank you 👍
[07:22] <tgBot10> MrSyabro was added by: MrSyabro
[07:25] <tgBot10> disinterpreter was added by: disinterpreter
 hai!
 welcome
 guys can you documentation how i can write a port?
[07:33] <tgBot10> adamSavage was added by: adamSavage
 Welcome :)
 hello
 @disinterpreter, Step 1: Clear every item in the next six months out of your calendar. Step 2: go to halium.org for instructions  … Step 3: get back in touch with the outside world after the port is usable
 :DD
 ok
 @neothethird, 😂👍
 Thnx for OTA2!
 thanks for OTA2
 very nice update
 can anybody please provide link to changer log?
 change*
 @nikhilubuntu, https://github.com/ubports/ubports-touch/issues?q=is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%2215.04+OTA-2%22+is%3Aclosed
 whats the link to LoquiIM telegram group?
 I want to add that
 anybody please?
 @DanChapman, thanks Dan for the link.
 👍 no idea about loqui group though. Maybe @nfsprodriver can help with that
 ok
 pinged him just now
 Thanks for OTA 2
 @nikhilubuntu, https://telegram.me/joinchat/BlpqfQk1L0l0PJTnM02yxQ
 Dóna un cop d'ull al tuit de: @HiginiaRoig: https://twitter.com/HiginiaRoig/status/911665784283377664?s=09
[08:23] <ubports_bot> Project daily-fp2 build #348: SUCCESS in 13 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/348/
[08:24] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1063: SUCCESS in 1 min 4 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1063/
 @SiscoGarcia, Please, keep political BS out of this supergroup
 Sorry i've posted on a different group.
 I've mistaken
[08:49] <tgBot10> ivansey was added by: ivansey
 @ivansey, ванёк! дарова!
 😂
 @vanyasem, Здрям
 English only supergroup tho ;)
 @vanyasem, У тебя какое устройство есть?
[09:02] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> where can I find the changelog for OTA-2?
 it's pinned
 Fwd from UniversalSuperBox: The UBports project is excited to announce the immediate availability of Ubuntu Touch 15.04 OTA-2. … https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/ubuntu-touch-ota-2-release-78
 Just updated OTA-2 on 2 Pro5-devices. Works fine! Thanks a lot for great work.
[09:09] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> got it!
 @Christopher, Is it just me who finds it too dark? There should be an option to configure the gray layer intensity...
[09:12] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/VZSIquSo/file_749.jpg
[09:13] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Starting, thanks to all.
 Thanks for the OTA 2 🎉
 Questions about the browser
 @Jakob, Can you see a download video?
 I see that there is a new icon for it. It looks nice 😀
 It still says that it is chromium 55. That's hiw it should be?
 Tabs are a bit akward to handle on M10.
 thanks for OTA 2
 They are wide and the x is very small...
 That was intentional?
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/0vo2ejpE/file_751.jpg
 This is how it looks
 open more tabs
 Guys what about this? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/armhf/firefox
 Ubports comes with its own installer now?
 Marius says is in beta but it worked for me
 And looks nice
 @j2g2rp, Oh wow. TWO Lionel's…
 i cant see the flashlight toggle in the battery indicator on the new OTA 2
 @aki237, wow
 If we have XMir, it'll work I thinlk
 @Jaume81, Not tried yet, will test it soon. Can see recorded video without issues.
[09:41] <tgBot10> capuya was added by: capuya
 @aki237, I don't think Firefox UI is usable in smartphones screens
 @Jaume81, Test with a downloaded video transfered from desktop pc, works also fine.
 @savetier, Same on BQE5 on devel channel..
 @Krakakanok, same here. Device is bq4.5
 @Ruben, mine bqe5
[09:47] <tgBot10> Gibi92 was added by: Gibi92
 Well, I don't understand. Recorded video, I can't see too but download video from google drive.
 I think I will have to do a hard reset to reinstall the OS.
 Are theres some app to make a calls and sms back up?
 How is it going with the OnePlus 3?
 @andreasimonetti, Ok .. I powered off the device and now the right icon is back..
 @Jujuyeh, Follow
 Can somebody see Netflix or Amazon Prime on Browser?
 Other subject; I mailed "Curious Mitchell", the dev behind on of the Facebook applications (the best, in my view) and just got a reply: … "Hi Miguel, glad you like it. Sorry to say I've ditched Ubuntu Touch for android - back on a Samsung Galaxy note 4 and loving it. From memory, you should be able to pull the files off the phone and publish it yourself in the open store - the files should be somewhere in /opt/click/ … Your local files for the
[10:09] <tgBot10> should be in ~/.local/share/applications … Good luck with it! … Mitchell"
 is this correct? How do I go about uploading an app to the store?
 I also have "Level" and "Realtaí" that I would love to see there...
 @riccardovidotto, what? :D
[10:24] <tgBot10> <Zhang Zhou 🥜🥜🥜> Is there a possibility to control media player with handsfree button? Is this button configurable at all?
 hands free button? the bottom virtual menu? with the back / forward arrows,, home and stuff?
 I think he means earplugs that come with buttons on the cord
 no idea, one way to find out I guess
 What do you think about a purism phone with UT?
 already existwith plasma mobile
 @Skorpion96, very expensive
 The phone doesn't exist yet so hard to say if it will be possible to port to it
 @Zhang Zhou 🥜🥜🥜, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1398193 we added support to the music app for media hub to control the queue. It just needed the platform to link to media hub in some places
 no i think a partnership really
[10:48] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> @DanChapman Hi, my Dekko notifications have stopped arriving, I can only see green number on Launcher Dekko app icon. Is that OK?
 Hmm odd... can you check the notifications are enabled for each account in "Settings -> Mail -> Accounts -> <account_name> -> Notifications"
 you can also check ~/.cache/upstart/dekkod-notify.log see if its generating the notification
[10:53] <tgBot10> themutiilator was added by: themutiilator
[10:53] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Notifications are enabled in Dekko as UT settings, looking now cache
 @nfsprodriver Indicator Torch doesn't work in BQ E4.5. It installs and shows the icon fine, but a blue pop-up with an error about permissions appears very briefly so I can't read it. Where can I find useful logs? … Maybe this is the problem? … ```2017-09-24 12:41:30,986 root         DEBUG    on_action_activated … sh: 1: cannot create /sys/class/leds/led:flash_torch/brightness: Directory nonexistent```
 @Milan Korecky, One thing to note is the launcher count is only getting cleared as the message is marked read. It doesn't get cleared after opening the app. Could this be the confusion?
[10:58] <tgBot10> <Zhang Zhou 🥜🥜🥜> @YougoChats, correct, earplugs with button
[10:59] <tgBot10> <Zhang Zhou 🥜🥜🥜> @ahayzen, so, will this work with wired headset?
 @Zhang Zhou 🥜🥜🥜, Potentially I thought it did at one point but then had reports saying it didn't. I wonder if some headsets send a different key. Best thing would be just to try it with the music app
[11:02] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> @DanChapman, No, I know that, sending pictures
[11:02] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/4vpJTmON/file_753.jpg
[11:02] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/TkPvwAIt/file_755.jpg
 hmmm That log looks like it's working to me. You can see it [POST]ed a message and no errors are returned and then it [REMOVE]s that same message when you read it
[11:09] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/bhbhwwpz/file_757.jpg
 ?
[11:10] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> This is from upstart cash, file manager
[11:10] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Dekko
[11:12] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Should I clean with tweak tool? But than I would have to setup the account again, right?
 why would you need to clean it? The log shows dekko posted a notification so dekko's side seems to be working. Unless i'm missing something here...
 If you want to restart dekko's services just run this from the terminal … ```restart dekkod … restart dekkod-notify``` … But you shouldn't need to wipe the cache or anything like that
[11:15] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> OK Dan, I am translator, so I am a little lost, thanks a lot for taken care, I do now
 Sorry guys, is the ota2 available also for nexus4?
 @Milan Korecky, 👍 Let me know how you get on. If it's still not showing notifications but dekko's log says it's sent them then it will need further investigation.
[11:18] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> OK Dan, restarted. Now I will send an e-mail to me
[11:21] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Email received, green icon on launcher on, notification nothing.
[11:22] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> ups, why two times the same post
 And the log shows it posted it? did it vibrate?
[11:24] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> No vibration
 No vibration and no sound.
 But it's a icon number
[11:25] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/EYGb2Cw0/file_759.jpg
 and no in notifications list.
 And no notifications
[11:25] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> The sent email name was: Checking notifications.
 But I think Ubuntu isn't righ in my Meizu, becuase I have some problems.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OikBSmiDefA
 OTA2 on fairphone 2 ^^
 @popescu_sorin, 👍😊
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/hQUyPNEL/file_760.webp
 @Krakakanok, Sorry we should write that the mediatek devices from BQ cannot get the indicator as we do not have source access to implement it correctly
 @Milan Korecky, can you try running this in the terminal … ```gdbus call --session --dest com.ubuntu.Postal --object-path /com/ubuntu/Postal/dekko2_2dekkoproject --method com.ubuntu.Postal.PopAll dekko2_2dekkoproject_dekko``` … Then see if you start getting notifications again.
 The keyboard bug is in that ota 2.
 @per_sonne, +1
 (Photo, 960x540) https://irc.ubports.com/2kRfeAXh/file_762.jpg
 Strgane issue.... I can see Ubports Supergroup from telegrap ubuntu desktop app. But not from Ubports touch phone.
 what cane be the reason?
 the lib cant support supergroups, if i remember well
 There is a webapp that does, can use that as a workaround
 ok
 @Cesar_Herrera, the last part should be dekko2.dekkoproject_dekko and not dekko2_2edekkoproject_2edekko
 me too faced keyboard issue on OTA 2 in Dekko
 I switched back to Ubuntu Store version of Dekko
 it works
 Dekko 2 is experimental.
[11:52] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> @DanChapman is it correct that in Dekko-2 I cannot send messages? I don't get a keyboard when tapping "to" address or subject....
 Please reports bugs on the site mentioned in the OpenStore.
 pull the indicator panel down a little and close it again and the keyboard should pop up. It's not a dekko bug
[11:53] <tgBot10> Isaac_Urg was added by: Isaac_Urg
 @Isaac_Urg, Welcome Ivan
[11:55] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> @DanChapman, Ah, funny it worked
 😊
[11:56] <tgBot10> Ognehod was added by: Ognehod
 @Ognehod, Welcome Vlad
 hi
 @DanChapman, Sorry
 (Photo, 960x540) https://irc.ubports.com/x0kOgPcK/file_762.jpg
 ```gdbus call --session --dest com.ubuntu.Postal --object-path /com/ubuntu/Postal/dekko2_2edekkoproject --method com.ubuntu.Postal.PopAll dekko2.dekkoproject_dekko <-- this``` … 😊
 well that didn't format how i wanted
 Sorry The phoro is an error
 yeah because you have the APP_ID wrong which is the last part of the command there shouldn't be the _2e in it
 oh did you mean you posted the wrong photo ?
 can Caldav account not sync with icloud?
 @DanChapman, I have the good photo but I don't know send it.
 How?
 (Photo, 960x540) https://irc.ubports.com/LO0QQvgD/file_765.jpg
 Will Ubuntu Touch use Wayland instead of Mir?
 @Cesar_Herrera, thanks! well it's not that then... hmmmmm
 it's weird as i've had steady notifications all day.
 If I install android in Meizu, I will can reinstall Ubuntu in future?
 @Jaume81, Meizu has some difficulties with the bootloader
 So be sure not to lock your bootloader and be careful
 It should be fine though
[12:21] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> @Milan Korecky, Mine too, meizu mx4 worked in OTA-1 nothing changed with settings.
 @Milan Korecky, This is happening for me too, on M10
 Actually, in fastboot mode says: Unlocked and unrooted. I don't understan why can't I see a downloaded video or the keyboard bug is here after ota2 and changed chanbel to realesed. Althought I would how can I sync caldav but  I search in wiki. There is a caldav account but it isn't getting config with iCloud or if only sync by owncloud or nextcloud.
 @BrisPete, 😞
 gonna need you guys to test a click and send me the log. Will post it in a few minutes
 Since downgrading the browser, my pebble smart watch with rockwork app is not getting weather data anymore. I am on fp2 rc5
 Has someone an idea for me how to fix that?
[12:43] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> @DanChapman HI, I am back and unfortunately it did not work. I can see there are more people with the same issue, I will wait now, you news Dan. Crossing fingers to be easy solution. Thankd
 @mymike00, who decides this?  how does anyone know?  in my opinion, it would make sense to put all app translation here...even if there are 5 people who want it translated.  I just assumed that if someone makes an app, the app goes to weblate for translation...
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/sBujrVuw/file_766.click
 For anyone who is having notification issues after installing this click you need to run  … ```restart dekkod … restart dekkod-notify``` … from the terminal. If you are still not getting notificiations but you see them in the log then could you please send me the log
 ~/.cache/upstart/dekkod-notify.log
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project daily-mako build #123: SUCCESS in 12 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-mako/123/
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1064: SUCCESS in 0.53 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1064/
 By the way, since we're discussing of notifications, which is the status of the new pull service in account-polld?
 I started to have a look for OpenStore notifications, I found it's already installed in UBports images, but I'm missing a bit of documentation :P
 @sverzegnassi https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o-y3dUOm8voAzhZCpbPSg-zhRBweYHXn8voQDprZtsc/edit?usp=sharing
 Awesome! Thanks @DanChapman !
 @Frank Gores, i also found if you slide to scroll through other open apps (right swipe) and come back to Dekko keyboard pops up.
 @sverzegnassi 👍
 @wayneoutthere, i shyould say I haven't done this OTA-2 thing yet so this is from yesterday..so to be clear my comment/trick worked before OTA 2.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Here is a question that will show my incredible bank of technical knowledge. … Exactly what does it mean "OTA"?  … And how do I know if I am running OTA 1?   … Thanks!
 Is the answer coded in here somewhere?
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/XbJtBuWd/file_767.jpg
 @Flohack, So nothing can be done for mediatek with this?
 @wayneoutthere, OTA = over the air [update] , These are major stable releases. You won't see "OTA-2" if you're on the devil's channel. Instead you get incremental updates (before the OTA drops) and it is reflected in the release number r###.
 *devel channel ;)
 @exar_kun, thanks Joe In Here.  I guess my question was way too easy for everyone here.
 need to increase the numbers of laymen in here
 They're just not rappers.
 anyone here who doesn't know much?  Hello?  (echo, echo, echo...)
 ✋
 Let's just make an audio cast
 like right now
 these people can't rap
 Good idea. 787 people to talk about.
 word up
 @wayneoutthere, About?
 @exar_kun, devil's channel, I want that channel
 @wayneoutthere, me
[14:04] <tgBot10> inchw0rm was added by: inchw0rm
[14:38] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Welcome
 @DanChapman the bug on the notification that you mentioned above is it related to the fact that when i select my notification dekko2 doesn't open ? Le me know if you need log for this one.
 @Ern_st, No dekko should open with v0.1.3. If it's not doing that it could possibly mean dekkod-notify failed to restart so it's not adding the action url
 @wayneoutthere, That also happens if you open a new private window in the browser
 @DanChapman, I've this behavior on my two phones, where to pullthe log ?
[15:40] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> @DanChapman, How can I download this to my phone, cos I read this from a tablet, not the affected phone...and on that one I cannot have this supergroup
 @Frank Gores, Install the telegram webapp from open store. There you can access this group and than download
 @Ern_st, have a look in ~/.cache/upstart/dekkod-notify.log and in the [POST] messages can you see `actions: ["dekko://notify/*/*/*"]` ?
 @per_sonne, high five
 question: I think I'm now on OTA 2.. except it says 'Version 1'... but also downloaded to my phone is version 145... should I install that too?
 this is what my N4 shows now
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/rn3Sqz0L/file_768.jpg
 oh weird, that r145 jut disappeared
 self-fixing... cool
 hha
 sorry
 Why doesn't browser have an option to desktop mode? Like Android's browsers.
 Probably hasn't been implemented yet.
 what does it require the browser to do?
 just change the useragent?
 or emulatre the screen size as well?
 How can I change user agent?
 @vanyasem, yeah I would have thought that's pretty much it
 Because in Android's browser can see Netflix, HBO or Amazon Prime.
 Yeah you won't be able to do that with the browser app. That requires widevine or whatever that DRM thing is called
 @j2g2rp, No nothing. Mediatek decided to be cheap and not open. Stay away from these SoCs whenever you can. Also for Android
 @Flohack, Yeah Mediatek is an terrable thing to port to.... they have been better with the years, but still far away from qcom
 @DanChapman, widevine
 @wayneoutthere, some times ago I asked @Flohack, I think, if other people could put their own app on translate.ubports.com and, if I remember corectly, he answered me no because problems of disk space... maybe it's different now, idk...
 @mymike00, ok, le'ts clarify this and see if we can imporve this. It seems logical to throw everything onto weblate.  if disk space is problem that seems... like a weak reason and maybe a sponsor can get more?
 I test the desktop mode on TV, and now I can open Telegram or Dekko but the message a sent isn't here. Run better on scopes mode than windows mode but in two modes the lyrics don't watch right.
 It's not unreasonable to only invite the really important apps to the UBPorts instance. https://weblate.org/en/hosting/ offers hosted.weblate.org for free to libre projects
 It's what I use for my apps and AsteroidOS
 How can I do a hard-reset? Because I have installed updates on updates and maybe if I make a clean install the OS run better.
 you can re-flash
 Since pc or mac? With the 0.17 beta? Or magical?
 I cannot understand you sorry
[16:30] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> @wayneoutthere, true, found this out as well!
[16:32] <tgBot10> <Frank Gores> @bastos777, thanks
 https://wiki.ubports.com/wiki/How-to-install-UBports-on-your-device … Using that but with the Canonical device, right?
 @Lorxu, but you said getting an answer will take lots of time...
 @mymike00, Up to a month, yes. But small projects can wait and Weblate doesn't mean you can't translate the way you're used to as well until it's up and running (and even after(
 He just checks his mail once a month and does it in bulk
 @Jaume81, Short answer yes. What device do you own and what OS you have right now?
 @Lorxu, Nobody likes waiting, but what's the rush with an improvement being available when the current version also works?
 but if we can upload the apps on ubports.com it would be better: every apps in a unique place
 (Video, 23s)https://irc.ubports.com/I0b05kKn/file_769.mp4
 Desktop mode. Crash in multitask
 Before I get open and sent a telegram message but I don't find here.
 Hi guys, since a couple of days ago, I am experiencing two issues. 1) when I go to options and press 'update', it crashes. So, I can't update. 2) Everytime I change the focus from my browser to another thing Thanks.and go back to the browser, it will restart with the standard Ubuntu / Google initial page. It doesn't go back to the tabs I had open as it used to do. I have a bq4.5. Thanks.
 (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/Nbg8QZbf/file_771.jpg
 (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/ux40pQYo/file_773.jpg
 Device is Meizu Pro 5 and OTA 2
 @NikosChat, Meizu Pro 5 with OTA 2
 anyone, please?
 @giovanniiannotti I'd suggest creating bug reports for your issues here https://github.com/ubports/ubports-touch/issues with reproduction steps.
[17:10] <tgBot10> artfors was added by: artfors
 @artfors, Welcome!
 @mymike00, Also, mind that we still have to enable translations on our weblate instance for a number of projects (e.g. core-apps, indicators, toolkit, system services), so it might really become hard to host everything on UBports. … What we could do is to write down a list of Ubuntu Touch apps with a link to the translation platform. We could eventually add a "Translation" field in OpenStore, in order to allow devs to provide us the needed
[17:13] <tgBot10> info, and generate the list automatically. However, with ~400 apps currently hosted, it might be hard to see all the apps translated consistently :)
 @giovanniiannotti, What build is that? In which channel are you? Because that's not stable. … Last stable build for BQ E4.5, aka OTA-2 is KRILIN01A-S15A_BQ_L100EN_1002_known (yours is 1003)
 @advocatux, how do I check it?
 @advocatux, Thank
 @giovanniiannotti, Check out this in System Settings > Update > Update Settings (this is at the page bottom) > Channels
 @advocatux, well, ththat's one of the issues. when I go to Updates, it crashes. I am just a final user. Never did anything out of the ordinary.
 @giovanniiannotti, How do you installed UBports in the first place? Do you remember? … Have you tried to reboot the phone?
 @DanChapman, .I will. Thanks
 👍
 @advocatux, I flashed it as instructed on the website
 @giovanniiannotti, But the instructions say you can choose channel
 @Jaume81, Does it carsh or stop the recording?
 @advocatux, Can I check it using the terminal?
 @giovanniiannotti try `system-image-cli -i` in the terminal
[17:59] <Matthew[m]> hi folks - does anyone know how to activate the ubuntu onscreen keyboard from a pure C++ Qt app (ie no qml)?
 Try QInputMethod
 it should have show() / hide()
 @giovanniiannotti, https://ubports.com/forum/how-to/wiki-info-4/release-channels-6
 @mymike00, Disk space is not the first reason but we also want to be more like a bootstrap to a selfsustaining Ubuntu Touch app community. So we will host our core apps and the OS, important projects like openstore, and some important apps like dekko, but not many. Community means it should grow into diversity, and so shall translations
 Oh Dan Chapman was quicker, but I think you need to use 'sudo'
[18:01] <Matthew[m]> @danchapman: i’ve tried QInputMethod but i don’t think the app has picked up the libubuntu-keyboard-plugin
[18:01] <Matthew[m]> or whatever is needed to actually render the OSK
 current build number: 3 … device name: krillin … channel: ubports-touch/15.04/rc … last update: 2017-09-11 21:33:58 … version version: 3 … version ubports: 20170904-13114 … version keyring: archive-master … version device: 20170512-1010
[18:02] <Matthew[m]> or should the system Qt automatically do that somehow?
[18:03] <Matthew[m]> the QML apps for instance have an ‘import Ubuntu.Components’ but I have no idea what the equivalent would be if you have no QML
 @giovanniiannotti, That's release candidate channel. … Also, I checked you don't need `sudo` to run the command (in spite of what the documentation says)
 The ubuntu.components don't control the osk. In qml you do `Qt.inputMethod.show()` which is just calling `QInputMethod::show()`. It's a platform feature so would be handled by the qpa platform plugin (qtubuntu) . I wonder why it's not working for you though...
 @advocatux, I didn't need to, indeed. 😃
 @advocatux, I suppose rc channel isn't the one I should be on? How do I change it? Can I keep my data on the telephone?
 @giovanniiannotti, You can stay in rc and report bugs 😉 or change to stable channel using the instructions in the link I gave you before.
 Rule of thumb: if the data is important, make backups.
[18:20] <Matthew[m]> @danchapman: probably because i have built my own qt5.9 and qtubuntu
[18:20] <Matthew[m]> and failed to tell it about the OSK plugin correctly :( everything else works
 @advocatux, ok, I will stay here for some days to report the bugs. Even if this will give some trouble. This is my only access to the internet right now. We came to the countryside after the earthquakes (Italy)
 @giovanniiannotti, Ok. Good luck 👍
 thanks
 How to I edit the bug reports to include the channel info?
[18:38] <Matthew[m]> (should the 5.4 OSK plugin even work against qt5.9? perhaps i missed a dependency when building qtubuntu)
 I would have thought you would need a 5.9 maliit-framework and plugins
[18:42]  * Matthew[m] nods
[18:43] <Matthew[m]> i read somewhere that 5.x plugins worked on qt 5.y where x<y
[18:44] <Matthew[m]> but can believe also that that is not true. is there some config or env var for pointing a qt at the right plugins, just in case it’s just failing to find them?
[18:50] <tgBot10> kapcom01 was added by: kapcom01
 You could modify QT_PLUGIN_PATH. Re: the 5.x working on 5.y should normally work but there was an gcc abi break (move to gcc 5) *after* vivid and Qt5.4 so that's where you may hit issues
 @giovanniiannotti, Ok, edited. Had to change to desktop mode.
[18:56] <tgBot10> prajwah was added by: prajwah
 Hello everyone ! Can Ubuntu touch be installed on multirom like before on the OnePlus one ?
 UBports doesn't support multirom anymore
 I see ! Thanks for your reply ! I'll install it normally then !
 you are welcome
[19:17] <tgBot10> Ankit was added by: Ankit
 Anyone here know how you can restart a snap? Nextcloud is not listneing to port 80 because something ewas on that port
[19:24] <Matthew[m]> @danchapman: i deliberately built the qt5.9 with gcc4.9 to avoid the abi woes
[19:24] <Matthew[m]> will try fiddling the pluginpath
[19:24] <Matthew[m]> although am still confused on what actually decides to try to load the osk plugin (qtubuntu?)
 Matthew[m], I think from the QT_IM_MODULE env var http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/maliit/maliit-framework-ubuntu/view/head:/debian/maliit-framework.sh
[19:49] <Matthew[m]> @ahayzen: hm, okay. i wonder where that is set by default, if anywhere
 @prajwah, MultiROM? … Is like multiboot a few OSes in a PC?
 Matthew[m], it is installed into /etc/profile.d/ see the first line here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/maliit/maliit-framework-ubuntu/view/head:/debian/maliit-framework.install
[19:59] <Matthew[m]> aaaah, bingo, thanks
 Just updated to OTA 2, very good job and thank you guys!
 @giovanniiannotti from an ubuntu machine with ubuntu-device-flash installed run "sudo ubuntu-device-flash —server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch —device=krillin \ —channel=15.04/stable" to change to the stable channel
[21:02] <ubports_bot> Project daily-bacon build #280: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-bacon/280/
[21:03] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #1065: SUCCESS in 57 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/1065/
 @NikosChat, Thanks. Will try tomorrow. If I were to keep reporting those bugs on rc, is there a way to upgrade to OTA2 using terminal? I tried sudo apt-get, but got a message saying a certain file was in reading mode.
[21:29] <tgBot10> <Vijay Kumar> Just 10 more for .8k
 @giovanniiannotti, No.. You need to use a pc connected to the phone through adb.. Read the release channels wiki..
 @giovanniiannotti, You are not supposed to use apt on your phone. I think you can't change channels from your phone. Use the command I sent you to change channel and see if your issues remain
[21:38] <tgBot10> <Milan Korecky> Telegram
 @NikosChat, got it. thanks
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/j8dWMNFR/file_774.mp4
 Why the twitter scope use "" when I didn't write?
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/on0aeUWH/file_776.jpg
 @Lorxu, ok, but my point is that anything under the 'ubuntu touch hub' should be in the same spot for translation. Then, a translation machine person can go in and be very focused and useful.  "Ok! Done! What's next?  click.  Ok done!  What's next?  Click.  etc"
 @Jaume81, Wish I knew
 @Jaume81, what's the name of the twitter scope?
 Maybe the scope has IA. But looks nice.
 @josueqb, Name?
 yeah
 I installed the twitter app, but I couldn't find a scope
 Ah! Ok! I don't understand you. In Ubuntu Store you have to make a scopes search.
 Write in search box: Scope
 I did that, bur I didn't see any twitter scopes
 I saw scopes for news, weather, stuff like that, but not twitter
 me entiendes Jaume? que no me sale nada cuando busco twitter scope
 sorry everybody


[22:26] <androidbruce> anyone running 11.04 beta/
[23:17] <valorie> not yet
[23:17] <valorie> I should at least write it to the flash drive and try it out


[05:45] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: I'll take a look
[05:46] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: displaycal looks like it's for calibrating your screen
[05:46] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: unless I'm finding the wrong thing
[14:28] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Yes, displaycal is for calibrating your screen, but if your screen isn't calibrated, what's the use in doing color correction on a video?
[14:29] <Eickmeyer> Inaccuracy begets inaccuracy.
[16:10] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: I don't care what colour the vectorscope displays as
[16:11] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Oh, that's not what I'm referring to. When you have your display showing you accurate colors, that means that whatever color you are correcting in the video is accurate too. :)
[16:54] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: yes, but I don't care about that at this stage, I know how the colours are going to look on a calibrated screen
[16:54] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: 90% of the time I'm not even looking at the footage, I'm looking at the vectorscope and waveform monitor
[16:57] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Oh, that's fair. Did you look at openshot?
[17:47] <torsti> hi i'm a new linux user and installed ubuntu studio. i also found a nice patchbay called catia but i don't see it in ubuntu studio. how can i install it?
[17:49] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: not yet, I am not long back in, haven't really eaten dinner yet and have just put the trainee camera grip to bed
[17:49] <Eickmeyer> torsti: That's not supported as it's not part of the Ubuntu repositories.
[17:49] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Sounds good.
[17:50] <Eickmeyer> torsti: We have Carla, which has an identical patchbay by the same developer.
[17:50] <torsti> Eickmeyer: ok thanks. do i install it with apt-get?
[17:51] <Eickmeyer> torsti: apt-get is for scripts only, I highly encourage apt. However, carla comes pre-installed on any Ubuntu Studio installation.
[17:51] <torsti> Eickmeyer: ah i see it now. thanks
[17:51] <Eickmeyer> torsti: yw
[17:58] <gordonjcp> I think Carla is a little newer, no?
[18:00] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Yes, and better maintained. falktx has stated he wants to sunset cadence and all of the utilities that spur from it, including catia.
[18:01] <Eickmeyer> Partially why he's heavily contributing to pipewire while maintaining jack2.
[18:02] <Eickmeyer> At least, that's how I understand it.
[18:20] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: right, openshot is broken in 22.04, which is a bit of a bummer
[18:24] <gordonjcp> oho, there's a snap of it
[18:26] <gordonjcp> ... but, it can't load files, because the file picker is broken.
[18:41] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: I think I'll just wait until I'm back home to edit
[18:42] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: It can load files if you check to see what the snap connections need, most likely "sudo snap connect openshot:removable-media" is all that's needed.
[18:42] <gordonjcp> o_O
[19:04] <gordonjcp> well, that lets me load clips, after a fashion
[19:04] <gordonjcp> but, it can't do anything with them
[19:04] <gordonjcp> you can just plonk them down on the timeline
[19:39] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Sorry, writing release notes and what-not for 23.10, eyes all over the place.
[19:40] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Check to see what other connections are needed. "sudo snap connect openshot[tab]" where [tab] is literally your tab key.
[19:40] <Eickmeyer> When in doubt, add them all, one by one.
[19:44] <gordonjcp> yeah, that's actually got it to load
[19:44] <gordonjcp> openshot is terrible
[19:45] <gordonjcp> as video editors go, it's generally handy to have a way of, you know, actually editing video
[19:58] <Eickmeyer> gordonjcp: Indeed. It used to be installed by default in Ubuntu Studio.  I went (ancient) Adobe Premiere -> Apple Final Cut -> Kdenlive
[20:03] <Eickmeyer> English, please.
[20:03] <Eickmeyer> 💀
[20:03] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: mostly I use resolve but my laptop is too potato to run it
[20:03] <gordonjcp> How Hard Can It Be...?
[20:04] <Eickmeyer> Well, I wouldn't recommend doing it on a Raspberry Pi either, but people try and complain when it doesn't work. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[20:05] <gordonjcp> you do very much need a good NVidia card
[20:05] <gordonjcp> this laptop has a Blender benchmark of ~4
[20:06] <gordonjcp> so
[20:06] <Eickmeyer> Yikes.
[20:06] <gordonjcp> Core i5-3320M, so pretty old
[20:06] <Eickmeyer> My main machine has an RTX 2040 and my big laptop has an RTX 2040 Mobile.
[20:06] <Eickmeyer> s/2040/2060
[20:06] <gordonjcp> yeah my main machine has a GTX1650 but I'm thinking in terms of getting a 3060
[20:07] <Eickmeyer> I recommend the upgrade from GTX1650. I had a 1650 prior.
[20:07] <gordonjcp> which should make the Cycles renderer happy
[20:07] <gordonjcp> previously I edited in Resolve on a Core i5-4570 with GT1030 which was surprisingly adequate, for 1080p and nothing too Fusion-heavy
[20:08] <Eickmeyer> I have a small laptop that has a Gen11 Intel with Iris XE, and it's no slouch. I'm taking it to Riga to use to do an audio workshop at Ubuntu Summit.
[20:10] <Eickmeyer> Honestly, 2D stuff isn't too demanding if you have dedicated graphics.
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: yeah they're okay if you don't need either 3D or GPU acceleration
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Eickmeyer: a lot of what Resolve does isn't 3Dish GPU but more "lots of fast maths for compositing" GPU
[20:13] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, that makes sense. When you've layered stuff on top, such as compositing or adjusting, that'll kick it into high gear. I remember the days when I'd have to wait *forever* to render mere preview frames after I've made adjustments.
[20:15] <Eickmeyer> Also Resolve is GPU-optimized so it's really looking for those Cuda cores.
[20:22] <gordonjcp> yup
[20:23] <gordonjcp> it works with AMD, but people have weird intractable problems
[20:23] <gordonjcp> also I feel like Windows is kind of the "poor relation" in Resolve
[20:23] <gordonjcp> it's got H.264 but that's, uhm
[20:23] <gordonjcp> yeah you would want to just output to DNxHR and use ffmpeg
[20:24] <Eickmeyer> What's funny is BlackMagic Design actually sells (used to sell?) dedicated machines running Resolve, and it ran CentOS under-the-hood.
[20:24] <gordonjcp> anecdotally, on the same Core i7 and GT1650, it was unbelievably slow and crashy with the smae footage and everything
[20:24] <gordonjcp> yeah they recommend you use their respin of Rocky 8.6
[20:24] <Eickmeyer> Yep, that makes sense.
[20:24] <gordonjcp> in which everything Just Plain Works
[20:25] <Eickmeyer> (tm)
[20:25] <gordonjcp> even ffpmeg is built with BMD Desktop Video support, so my Intensity Pro works straight away
[20:25] <gordonjcp> it's hard to fault it
[20:25] <gordonjcp> so I will anyway, I don't like the pure Gnome desktop
[20:25] <Eickmeyer> I mean, I can't do that, for obvious reasons. Though, the team I used to work for has had amazing luck with it on Kubuntu.
[20:26] <gordonjcp> yeah
[20:26] <Eickmeyer> Which, technically, shouldn't differ from Ubuntu Studio in practice.
[20:26] <gordonjcp> it works well out of the box, although I run it in a Docker container where it lives happily in Rocky 8.6 land
[20:26] <Eickmeyer> Oh, that's nice.
[20:26] <gordonjcp> it is
[20:26] <gordonjcp> only thing is, you need a "bare metal" install to update devices
[20:26] <gordonjcp> no real hardship there
[20:27] <gordonjcp> even running it in a container mitigates against a weird Resolve bug regarding font paths
[20:30] <Eickmeyer> Huh. Interesting.
[20:35] <gordonjcp> yeah, I don't know what it is, "Text" effects seem to use a different set of rules to "Text+"
[20:35] <gordonjcp> which again is different to Text+ in the Fusion tab
[20:35] <gordonjcp> because it's all pretty wildly inconsistent
[20:37] <Eickmeyer> 🤔
[20:37] <Eickmeyer> ❓
[20:37] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, no idea what to say to that.
[20:42] <gordonjcp> yeah, it's probably a bug
[20:42] <gordonjcp> Fusion is really a separate app that's been grafted onto Resolve