[01:53] <mako> sivang: hey there.. i'm here now.. just arrived home
[01:56] <sivang> mako: ah ok, when you finish reading -doc postingon the mailing list, tell me :)
[01:56] <sivang> mako: we have been approached by a new buddy (nick:froud) few days ago, about somet stuff regarding the repo and else,
[01:56] <sivang> see the ml then we'll taklk :)
[01:56] <sivang> welcome home, btw :)
[01:58] <sivang> Wheller is his last name, can't recall the first :)
[02:08] <sivang> mako: anyway, on thing very importan which can be brought before you read over the channel backlog or ml, is that we must have a canonical hosted doc repo :)
[02:08] <sivang> quick!
[02:09] <sivang> mako: as hornbeck is on vacation for xmas in vegas, the svn repo is practically down for all work, something very bad and disappointing for all our contributors :(
[02:09] <sivang> mako: we need the repo (be it svn/baz/arch) hosted inhouse canonical, and with soem techincally able care given to it.
[02:10] <sivang> mako: we need to start treating the UDP as a serious thing or else nothing will happen..
[02:14] <mako> sivang: ok. that makes seneses
[02:14] <mako> sivang: the issue here is that it requires a machine with substantially different access control than anything we have currently
[02:15] <mako> sivang: i can push for it and i think it can happen but it's going to require some new rules.. which is always difficult
[02:16] <sivang> mako: ok, so if we switch to baz it's no hassle?
[02:16] <sivang> mako: I mean, we already have it part of launchpad
[02:17] <sivang> mako: is the orig repo being on svn off issue to this?
[02:19] <mako> i guess i don't completely understand..
[02:19] <sivang> mako: let's take this one step at the time :)
[02:19] <sivang> mako: btw, would you prefer discussing this tommrowo?
[02:19] <mako> the choice of the version control system should not affect the access control issues
[02:19] <mako> that might be good.. i've been up for quite a while :)
[02:19] <sivang> yes, I figured so,
[02:19] <sivang> :)
[02:20] <sivang> so, lemme know when it will be more comfortable for you to discuss this,
[02:20] <sivang> and another thing I'm concenred about is -
[02:20] <sivang> each time a new person shows up and wants t "join" the doc team,
[02:21] <sivang> the all too old and already "agreed" upon stuff comes back :)
[02:21] <sivang> like, let's make a leader,
[02:21] <sivang> let's work like that,
[02:21] <sivang> or this,
[02:21] <sivang> I'd like to maybe think up with somethin to clear this up.
[02:21] <sivang> :) when you are less tired ofcourse :L)
[02:22] <sivang> I guess I am asking how do I say a new guy "This is waht we decided, this is how it is _going_ to be"
[02:22] <sivang> :)
[02:29] <sivang> mako: still there?
[02:30] <mako> sivang: yeah
[02:30] <mako> i think a docteam FAQ might be good
[02:30] <mako> that's how we deal with the problem in the larger ubuntu project
[02:32] <sivang> mako: I'm interested to know what sorts of access issues setting up a server has, if we use the baz web interface it should solve them all - isn't that what baz is supposed to do?
[02:32] <sivang> mako: but if you're way tired, let's leave it for now and talk again some other time that you are online and less tired :)
[02:32] <mako> sivang: the web interface doesn't help you write to it
[02:32] <sivang> mako: so what does it do?
[02:33] <mako> well, perhaps with webdav you can.. i'm not familiar with the access control issues
[02:33] <sivang> mako: I see. Well, this is something we can maybe bring to the TB for discussion?
[02:33] <mako> but i know that so far, the way it's handled with with accounts on the machine, with a single gpg keyring and an email interface, or something similar
[02:34] <mako> this isn't a technical board issues
[02:34] <sivang> mako: you mean commiting stuff using en email interface?
[02:34] <mako> this is a canonical machine administration issue
[02:34] <sivang> I am not sure I understadn that fully.
[02:34] <mako> sivang: it's complex.. too complex for what we want
[02:35] <mako> we can pick this up soon.. i gotta eat :)
[02:35] <mako> and then crash in all likelihood
[02:36] <sivang> ok
[02:36] <sivang> it's just the docteam seems a very little issue from the current point of view,
[02:36] <sivang> and well, it may be verywell so, we just need to know where are we standing.
[02:37] <sivang> I'm ok with canonical/ubuntu/anybody saying, let's release the docs issue altogether, leave it proper for the community at large and say we don't even really need a specialized ubuntu doc team..
[02:39] <sivang> I just won't approach new members any more...It's a bit embarresing telling them "Hmm, the doc repo is down today - could you ping me again in a week?" :)
[02:39] <sivang> this looks not good, from the new contributors point of view..anyway, go to eat.
[02:39] <sivang> I'm sorry :)
[02:39] <sivang> for all my complains
[02:43] <sivang> *comlaints
[02:59] <sivang> hey enrico
[02:59] <sivang> :)
[02:59] <sivang> back again?
[03:11] <enrico> Hello!
[03:11] <enrico> Lots of activity for christmas!
[03:17] <mako> enrico: merry xmas :)
[03:18] <sivang> mako: so you've read all my complaints? :)
[03:19] <mako> sivang: yes
[03:19] <mako> no, i understand that it is frustring in regards to the repo
[03:19] <mako> we'll work out a solution to that
[03:20] <mako> man.. it's not even 930pm and i'm *exhausted*
[03:20] <mako> jet lag...
[03:20] <sivang> ok, I hope  this will happen fast not like the last time it was said that it's being worked on.
[03:21] <enrico> Hello.  What are you guys talking about?
[03:21] <enrico> Could you please update me?
[03:21] <enrico> (I just wake up, and its sunday...)
[03:21] <enrico> s/wake/woke/
[03:21] <sivang> enrico: eh the good life :)
[03:22] <mako> enrico: sivang is frusterated because he thinks docteam work is paralized by the current state of hornbeck and his repository
[03:22] <sivang> enrico: Well, the last new guy that approached the docteam (you've talked with him regarding the spcial branch you made for him of the repo)
[03:23] <enrico> oh, but hornbeck is back again now, and the repo works
[03:23] <sivang> enrico: it is?
[03:23] <mako> enrico: although the criticism seems to be more with what sivan sees as the attitude that canonical is taking toward thehe doc team
[03:23] <mako> enrico: not putting resources etc to get a repository for members, etc
[03:24] <enrico> sivang: yes, just checked.  Have you read the list?  There was a snow storm and Hornbeck's house had a long blackout that exausted the UPS and so the machine never went up
[03:24] <mako> i think you guys need a distributed revision control system
[03:24] <enrico> But I posted in the list about that, too: Elmo understood that we didn't need the migration because we wanted to go to baz anyway.  However,
[03:24] <sivang> enrico: maybe we can make this repo more sustainable in means of uptime?
[03:24] <enrico> noone told him about the results of the docteam BOF
[03:24] <enrico> So I did tell him
[03:25] <enrico> He's happy with the migration, but he's in vacation, so it won't happen until next year
[03:25] <sivang> so should I start learning baz?
[03:25] <mako> baz is a moving target
[03:25] <enrico> ehi, people, we have a working repo now, Hornbeck is at home
[03:25] <sivang> enrico: until next time he goes on vacation?
[03:25] <mako> that sounds like a short term and a long term plan
[03:25] <enrico> The repo is set for migration as soon as Elmo gets back to work
[03:25] <mako> cool
[03:26] <mako> enrico: how is access control going to be done?
[03:26] <enrico> mako: I would imagine access via DAV and people's accounts on an htpasswd, but that'll probably be negotiated with Elmo
[03:27] <mako> enrico: i was telling sivan that this was the only thing i was not sure about..but because it will be different than the way it being done in other places, it will need to be worked out
[03:27] <sivang> mako: ok, I am now relaxed :)
[03:27] <mako> but that said, even if it were  ea matter of posting changesets to a list and having a couple people merging contributed changesets in, it would be a huge plus
[03:27] <enrico> I've been posting about this recently... how come people don't read my mails?
[03:28] <mako> enrico: btw, i played with svk some more.. it a great idea :)
[03:28] <sivang> enrico: I've read all the -doc postings, didn't see your yet.
[03:29] <enrico> mako: eh.  At the moment, I'd suggest to people who can handle a bit more complexity to try svk.  However, I'm reluctant to suggest it in a mail to the list, as everyone's pretty sick of seeing names of revision control systems popping around
[03:29] <enrico> for Sean, what I did was a local branch in my svk mirror: as soon as he posts his patches, I can integrate them in his branch and try a smerge
[03:30] <enrico> that's neat, imo
[03:31] <enrico> sivang: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2004-December/000767.html (look for the word "elmo")
[03:31] <enrico> maybe my messages are too long
[03:31] <mako> i have that problem
[03:31] <mako> someone gave me a suggestion
[03:32] <mako> (1) write the message (2) write a summary of the message (3) throw away everything except the summary
[03:32] <mako> (plus any essential details)
[03:32] <sivang> enrico: noted
[03:34] <sivang> ok, so I will be waiting for after new years :)
[03:34] <sivang> night all !
[03:34] <enrico> mako: oh, nice idea :)
[03:34] <enrico> sivang: night!
[03:34] <sivang> (4:35am here)
[03:37] <enrico> sivang: :)
[03:39] <mako> i'm going to take the hint
[03:39] <mako> good nigth guys
[03:40] <sivang> night mako
[06:39] <enrico> froud: around?
[08:41] <[froud] > African greetings
[08:47] <[froud] > mako,  ping
[01:19] <froud> African greetings
[01:21] <froud> enrico, you tuned?
[01:32] <enrico> froud: kind of
[01:32] <enrico> I'm very tired
[01:32] <froud> :-)
[01:32] <froud> need another holiday
[01:33] <froud> well, are you up to sorting the svn
[01:35] <froud> warning: participation in open source projects can lead to sleep deprivation
[01:40] <froud> guess not
[01:43] <enrico> have a nice swim!  We can do it tomorrow
[06:31] <froud> ubuntulog help
[06:31] <froud> guess its not a bot?
[10:07] <sivang> hel all
[10:07] <sivang> hey
[10:08] <sivang> am back for a while


[19:01] <DJones> The !mir factoid probably needs looking at
[19:01] <DJones> !mir
[19:02] <DJones> However https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(software) suggests semi removal apart from IOT things
[19:02] <DJones> On April 5, 2017, Canonical announced that with the release of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, the Unity 8 interface would be abandoned in favor of GNOME. When asked if the decision would also mean the end of Mir development, Canonical's Michael Hall said that given the divergent development paths taken by Mir and its competitor, Wayland, "Using Mir simply isn't an option we have."[7]
[19:02] <DJones> However Mark Shuttleworth clarified on 8 April 2017 that development would continue for Mir's use in Internet of Things (IoT) applications, stating, "we have lots of IoT projects using Mir as a compositor so that code continues to receive investment."[8]
[19:04] <DJones> I have no idea what the current status is, but links suggest either abandoned or limited to specific uses, rather than a current display server
[19:04] <genii> Yes, there are a lot of factoids which are currently sadly out of date
[19:16] <DJones> Yeah, only noticed because somebody asked about mir
[19:16] <genii> ubottu: mir is <reply> Mir is a display server developed by Canonical and Ubuntu. From Ubuntu 17.04 ( Zesty Zapus ) onward, emphasis has shifted to embedded devices and applications, notably UBports as stated by Mark Shuttleworth ( https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH ). Regular Ubuntu LTS 18.04 onwards will  use GNOME.
[19:17] <genii> ubottu: no mir is <reply> Mir is a display server developed by Canonical and Ubuntu. From Ubuntu 17.04 ( Zesty Zapus ) onward, emphasis has shifted to embedded devices and applications, notably UBports as stated by Mark Shuttleworth ( https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH ). Regular Ubuntu LTS 18.04 onwards will use GNOME.
[19:17] <DJones> :) Good response
[19:19] <DJones> Just need !flash is You must be joking :)
[19:21] <DJones> Or maybe flash is, a-ah, saviour of the universe, Flash, a-ah, he'll save everyone of us, Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[19:22] <genii> heh