[09:25] <osfd> Hi there, how do you download a former branch ?
[09:25] <osfd> I know bzr update
[09:25] <osfd> to get the last version
[10:31] <LeoNerd> What do you mean "former branch"?
[10:31] <LeoNerd> Perhaps you wanted  bzr up -r123  ?
[10:32] <osfd> say the actual tree is 4462, I wanna go to 4460
[10:33] <osfd> LeoNerd: so I want to go to an older branch
[10:33] <osfd> or lower if you prefer
[10:49] <LeoNerd>  Okder revision of the same branch
[10:49] <LeoNerd> So, yeah,  bzr up -r4460
[10:50] <osfd> yes
[10:50] <osfd> I did that, I test to see if that work
[10:50] <osfd> LeoNerd: thank you
[10:52] <osfd> LeoNerd: and yes I meant version, not branch, sorry
[11:15] <vedu> hello. how to activate bzr autocomplete
[11:55] <Wiz_KeeD> hey guys
[11:55] <Wiz_KeeD> how do I delete a directory from a bzr repo and leave the actual tree untouched
[11:55] <Wiz_KeeD> --no-backup cfreates those ~1~ thing right?
[11:56] <Wiz_KeeD> ah I think it's keep
[16:36] <CcxCZ> how do I actually use a mergetool such as http://sjl.bitbucket.org/splice.vim/ from command line?
[16:39] <CcxCZ> I tried  bzr remerge --merge-type splice  which looked like logical place for it but that doesn't work (bzr-2.5.1 btw)
[17:32] <vila> CcxCZ: bzr remerge --help will tell you that it's not logical ;) Adn the page you linked above even mention how to do that for bazaar
[17:56] <yooozy> hello
[17:59] <yooozy> hepl please! I want to install bzr  to control my site on server then clone it locally to modify it  then merge
[18:29] <yooozy> helloOo
[18:29] <yooozy> anyone?


[02:25] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: here's that refactor PR https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8815
[03:35] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah, looking
[03:36] <babbageclunk> (Weird, I don't know why I didn't get a notification about that)
[03:36] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: awesome. will be some work ahead but i think i have line of sight to removing IAASModel/CAASModel
[03:36] <wallyworld> we'll see how it goes
[04:11] <anastasiamac_> wallyworld: babbageclunk (or anyone else keen), PATL https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8816 - invalidate credential call back when coming from bootstrap
[04:11] <wallyworld> ok
[04:16] <wallyworld> anastasiamac_: lgtm assuming it's been tested live
[04:51] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: reviewed! I complained about naming a bit, ping if you want to discuss.
[04:51] <wallyworld> ok, ty, looking
[04:53] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i specifically avoided the parent interface containing all 3 - that was the point of the split. i needed to be able to pass in something providing filesystem but not volume
[04:53] <wallyworld> or did i not understand?
[04:55] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: the parent interface would have 3 methods, one each returning the new interfaces.
[04:55] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: (or nil, if this model doesn't support that interface)
[04:56] <wallyworld> hmmm. that essentially is what we have now with model.IAASModel() and model.CAASModel() and is what i was trying toget away from
[04:56] <babbageclunk> well, instead you'd call model.FilesystemAccess()
[04:56] <wallyworld> the IAASModel() and CAASModel() methods return err, not just nil thouhj
[04:57] <wallyworld> i'll take a look to see if it works nicely
[04:57] <babbageclunk> well, you could do that too. This just matched what you had already (checking for nil for that argument).
[04:58] <wallyworld> i was trying to avoid the existing pattern
[04:58] <wallyworld> it seems more idiomatic to pass in things satisfying smaller interfaces
[04:59] <wallyworld> i guess it's just the constructor you want changed
[05:00] <wallyworld> the api struct would still have 3 attributes representing the smaller interfaces
[05:00] <wallyworld> assuming i understand correctly you point
[05:00] <babbageclunk> Yeah, I think so
[05:01] <wallyworld> ok, i'll dive in and see. i'll just do a bit more work on the followup PR first
[05:01] <wallyworld> will probably push changes tomorrow, we see how i go
[05:01] <babbageclunk> I mean, it matches what you're doing in functions like StorageAttachmentInfo or ClassifyDetachedStorage
[05:01] <babbageclunk> ok
[05:02] <wallyworld> yeah, it's messy, thanks for helping em untabgle it
[05:02] <wallyworld> it will still be a mess even when i'm done
[05:02] <wallyworld> the state vs model stuff is still in so many places
[05:18] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah, it's definitely still not going to be super-elegant
[05:18] <wallyworld> got to start somewhere right
[08:09] <BlackDex> how do i add a local charm to the bundle, i can't find it any more, and i forgot howto ;)
[08:13] <BlackDex> is it just "charm: /path/to/local/charm" ?
[09:43] <zeestrat> BlackDex: Yeah, last I checked it's just a path. Not sure if it's only relative or not though.
[09:56] <BlackDex> i will see that at that time
[09:56] <BlackDex> thx :)
[11:53] <rick_h_> BlackDex: starts with a .
[12:01] <BlackDex> so relative then
[12:01] <BlackDex> thx rick_h_
[12:12] <KingJ> If I set a http-proxy and a https-proxy, do I also need to set an apt-http-proxy and apt-https-proxy or will Juju use the proxies defined by http-proxy and https-proxy?
[12:16] <BlackDex> KingJ: You need to set all
[12:17] <BlackDex> apt-* are set in the /etc/apt/* special files
[12:17] <BlackDex> https-* are set as environment values
[12:17] <BlackDex> if applications support that they will try to use it
[12:17] <BlackDex> most python apps do
[12:18] <KingJ> Ahhh right, that explains why I have a few units with apt issues then - I thought just setting the general proxy would be enough.
[12:18] <rick_h_> KingJ: right, because many folks will run mirrors/etc for apt that won't follow the normal http rules for traffic
[12:18] <KingJ> I've just set the apt-* proxies in my model config - will the machines/units pick that up automatically?
[12:18] <BlackDex> keep in mind that it will then traffic everything over the proxy
[12:18] <rick_h_> KingJ: so it's the cost of flexibility tbh
[12:18] <rick_h_> BlackDex: you trying out 2.4 rc yet?
[12:18] <BlackDex> if you have a local network which you do not want to be proxied
[12:18] <BlackDex> you need to set that
[12:19] <BlackDex> rick_h_: no, not yet
[12:19] <BlackDex> but i like the new stuff in it :)
[12:19] <KingJ> I'm looking to proxy all http(s) traffic, but not any other traffic.
[12:20] <BlackDex> i know that if you set the proxy, and deploy something like openstack, even the openstack services will use the proxy, even when they are on the same subnet
[12:20] <BlackDex> best is to exclude the local network or some special IP's if that is the case
[12:21] <KingJ> Ah... that would be problematic. I'll set no-proxy to the local network then.
[12:21] <BlackDex> you can add those exceptions to the "no-proxy" setting of the model
[12:21]  * rick_h_ is looking for 2.4 rc feedback so starts bugging folks bdx magicaltrout zeestrat TheAbsentOne
[12:21] <BlackDex> i don't know if using a CIDR works these day's
[12:21] <BlackDex> else you need to add every IP in the subnet ;)
[12:23] <BlackDex> rick_h_: if i have some spare time (and i do not have much) i will try maas 2.4 my self :)
[12:24] <rick_h_> BlackDex: :) cool. we're going to have another rc2 for a bug in the oracle provider but I want to start panning folks for feedback before we go final.
[12:24] <TheAbsentOne> rick_h_: unfortunately I won't be much of a help as I'm not even allowed to try it out, I don't even have access to my controllers
[12:24]  * rick_h_ would rather catch any issues in rc and fix vs having to spin the .1 in a hurry
[12:24] <rick_h_> TheAbsentOne: on JAAS?
[12:25] <rick_h_> TheAbsentOne: or some other reason you don't have access?
[12:25] <KingJ> BlackDex: When I set these values in the model config, will Juju push it out to the machines automatically? Or do I need to do something extra to ensure that the machine is reconfigured with the appropriate config?
[12:25] <rick_h_> KingJ: Juju will handle it
[12:25] <BlackDex> hmm
[12:25] <BlackDex> ah greate
[12:25] <TheAbsentOne> I don't even know how they installed juju, all I know my machines are managed by a vmware-cluster and I (my user) have 2 models as my plaground :P
[12:25] <rick_h_> TheAbsentOne: oh, I see
[12:25] <BlackDex> it didn't do that when the models where first introduced if i'm correct
[12:26] <TheAbsentOne> I'm busy with a repo that might interest you too though rick_h_
[12:26] <BlackDex> atleast i had some issues then
[12:26] <rick_h_> BlackDex: hmmm, let's say that I'd expect Juju to and if it doesn't please file a bug :)
[12:26] <BlackDex> haha
[12:26] <BlackDex> i haven't checked it latley
[12:27] <BlackDex> same goes for the cidr in the no-proxy
[12:27] <BlackDex> i created a script which will create a bootstrap config which will add all the ip's of a subnet i enter
[12:27] <rick_h_> BlackDex: so I do know there's updates around that in 2.4 specifically for the issue you mention
[12:27] <BlackDex> else it was to much work
[12:27] <KingJ> Right, http(s)-proxy set back to default, apt-http(s)-proxy set, and no-proxy set to a CIDR... let's see how this goes :)
[12:28] <rick_h_> BlackDex: so there's new proxy values that the charms can selectively use or not use vs setting the main system ones for all traffic and having to manage no-proxy for large groups of IPs
[12:28] <BlackDex> KingJ: when you `juju ssh X` and execute `env` you should see the proxy settings
[12:28] <KingJ> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/95-juju-proxy-settings seems to have picked up the settings
[12:29] <KingJ> env isn't showing any proxy settings
[12:29] <BlackDex> also check if the proxy is set in the /etc/apt/preferences.d if i'm correct
[12:29] <BlackDex> oke cool
[12:29] <KingJ> /etc/apt/preferences.d/ is empty
[12:29] <BlackDex> conf.d it is yea
[12:29] <BlackDex> did you logged in after the changes
[12:29] <BlackDex> or whas it an old connection?
[12:30] <KingJ> New connection... I think. It was an LXC container so I just exited and re-ran lxc exec
[12:30] <BlackDex> hmm
[12:30] <BlackDex> don't know if it works like that
[12:31] <BlackDex> i think you need to `juju ssh application/0` to it
[12:31] <KingJ> Ah right, let me try that then
[12:32] <KingJ> Hrm, connected in that way, ran env and it's hanging. Hmm.
[12:33] <BlackDex> hanging?
[12:33] <BlackDex> on env :s
[12:33] <KingJ> Yeah, not quite what i'd expect heh
[12:34] <KingJ> Ah hold on, I think i've spotted something odd that could be causing issues at a lower level - MASS DHCP assigned this LXC container a .254 address, that's probably not going to play too well with things.
[12:35] <BlackDex> ;)
[12:39] <KingJ> Right now that's corrected in MAAS, probably easiest to tear down the model and recreate :)
[12:39] <BlackDex> KingJ: you can provide the model config during the add-model command
[12:40] <BlackDex> which includes all the config you want like http-* apt-* and no-proxy stuff
[12:40] <KingJ> Can I put the model config in a yaml file and run juju add-model model.yaml ?
[12:45] <BlackDex> yea
[12:45] <BlackDex> KingJ: https://docs.jujucharms.com/2.3/en/models-config
[12:46] <BlackDex> it is stated over there
[12:46] <KingJ> Perfect, let's try this...
[12:47] <BlackDex> just simple "http-proxy: http:maas:8000"
[12:47] <BlackDex> without the " ofcourse
[12:47] <KingJ> Silly question, what key would I use to set the model name?
[12:48] <rick_h_> KingJ: you have to do that at add-model time
[12:48] <KingJ> Ah right, so juju add-model name, then juju model-config file.yaml
[12:48] <BlackDex> no key
[12:48] <rick_h_> KingJ: right
[12:48] <BlackDex> `juju add model --config myconfig.yaml default`
[12:48] <rick_h_> or I think add-model takes a --config
[12:48] <rick_h_> yea
[12:48] <BlackDex> where default is the model name
[12:49] <BlackDex> no special stuff you need to do in the yaml regarding the model-name
[12:49] <BlackDex> only the settings with each setting on a new line
[12:49] <KingJ> Excellent, that all seemed to work
[12:53] <KingJ> Ok, time to deploy the bundle again. Thanks for all your help so far :)
[12:53] <BlackDex> yw :)
[12:53] <BlackDex> goodluck
[12:54] <BlackDex> if  you are using juju 2.3 you can use the --dry-run now :)
[12:54] <BlackDex> Very nice
[12:54] <BlackDex> it filters some basic errors out of it
[12:54] <BlackDex> not all, like bad config options of the charms
[12:54] <BlackDex> mistyped etc..
[12:54] <rick_h_> BlackDex: cool, glad to hear you're using that and finding it useful
[12:55] <KingJ> Ah yeah, that would have been a good idea, but I think the bundle should be OK now - i've made enough revisions to it over the past few days heh. I'm on 2.4-rc1 at the moment because of a bionic related issue.
[12:55] <BlackDex> ah!
[12:56] <BlackDex> that would explain some issues then i had with 2.3.x and bionic
[12:56] <BlackDex> didn;t look any further
[12:56] <BlackDex> no time ;)
[12:56] <BlackDex> used xenial again
[12:56] <BlackDex> i normally want to wait for the .1 release anyway
[12:56] <BlackDex> rick_h_: Yea, i really like it
[12:57] <BlackDex> now it needs to be extended to check if all the config options are valid ;)
[12:57] <rick_h_> KingJ: cool, let me know if you hit any 2.4 issues.
[12:57] <KingJ> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1764317 is the one I ran in to on 2.3.x and made me jump on to 2.4-beta. This is a new greenfield environment, albeit lab, so I wanted to jump on to the latest and greatest.
[12:57] <mup> Bug #1764317: bionic LXD containers on bionic hosts get incorrect /etc/resolve.conf files <bionic> <cdo-qa> <cdo-qa-blocker> <foundations-engine> <kvm> <lxd> <network> <uosci> <juju:Fix Committed by ecjones> <juju 2.3:Fix Released by ecjones> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764317>
[12:58] <BlackDex> KingJ: yea netplan is a bit to new for my tast
[12:59] <BlackDex> didn't expected it to be in a LTS release
[12:59] <KingJ> I think it was in 17.10, but it's still quite a big change. I like it conceptually but still a few rough edges around.
[12:59] <BlackDex> i had some issues with netplan and bonding
[12:59] <KingJ> BlackDex: This bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1774666
[12:59] <mup> Bug #1774666: Bond interfaces stuck at 1500 MTU on Bionic <cdo-qa> <foundations-engine> <mtu> <netplan> <cloud-init:Fix Committed by chad.smith> <MAAS:Invalid> <cloud-init (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <netplan.io (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <cloud-init (Ubuntu Xenial):New> <netplan.io (Ubuntu Xenial):Invalid>
[12:59] <mup> <cloud-init (Ubuntu Artful):New> <netplan.io (Ubuntu Artful):Invalid> <cloud-init (Ubuntu Bionic):New> <netplan.io (Ubuntu Bionic):Invalid> <cloud-init (Ubuntu Cosmic):Confirmed> <netplan.io (Ubuntu Cosmic):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774666>
[13:00] <BlackDex> no, not that one, but that is nasty also
[13:00] <BlackDex> it didn't connect
[13:00] <BlackDex> or it didn't created the LACP bonding the right way
[13:01] <KingJ> Huh interesting, i've not had any problems with the bond formation itself (using 802.3ad) but the MTU issue is affecting me, but it's not a blocker at least just slightly less optimal.
[13:38] <stickupkid> rick_h_: here are the QA steps for the PR https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8818
[13:38] <rick_h_> stickupkid: cool ty, I'm going to try a slightly different tact and see if it works and if so share how that might be made a little easier
[13:39] <stickupkid> rick_h_: it assumes you don't already have a tmp folder in your $HOME dir
[13:39] <rick_h_> stickupkid: k, lol at using the charm as the resource to itself :)
[13:40] <stickupkid> rick_h_: easiest way without forking the world!
[13:40] <rick_h_> stickupkid: made me smile
[13:43] <MrOldest2> hello
[13:48] <u0_a274> hi
[13:48] <u0_a274> hello
[13:48] <u0_a274> come on
[13:50] <rick_h_> having fun?
[13:53] <u0_a274> hi
[14:11] <zeestrat> rick_h_: got a rough eta when y'all want cut a ga? I'd love to kick the tires but got some pto coming up.
[14:48] <BlackDex> hmm, how do i upgrade a local charm?
[14:48] <BlackDex> do i need to create a new folder, or can i overwrite the current and just tell juju to upgrade the charm?
[14:49] <BlackDex> i probably need to update the revision then i think?
[15:36] <zeestrat> BlackDex: Can overwrite but is probably good hygiene to do a clean build. Juju should bump the revision automatically when upgrading locally.
[15:45] <BlackDex> clean build ?
[15:45]  * BlackDex whistles ;)
[15:46] <BlackDex> i'm currently just doing dirty hacks to get vmware working with a charm directly instead of manully hacking the configs afterwards with ansible or `juju run` scripts
[15:47] <BlackDex> modified the nova-compute charm
[15:55] <TheAbsentOne> is relate the new word for add-relation? :O
[16:04] <rick_h_> BlackDex: just reuse the current space and use the path on the upgrade command.
[16:05] <rick_h_> TheAbsentOne: a nicer alias heh
[16:05] <TheAbsentOne> it's kinda romantic xD
[16:08] <TheAbsentOne> rick_h_: if you would have time want to browse through these folders: https://github.com/Ciberth/gdb-use-case/tree/master/mininimalexamples
[16:08] <TheAbsentOne> Your detective eye will immediately see if something is wrong, I haven't tested/deployed them yet I will in a bit normally
[16:09] <rick_h_> TheAbsentOne: run charm proof on each?
[16:09] <TheAbsentOne> I will as soon as I'm on a ubuntu machine x)
[16:09] <BlackDex> rick_h_: it works
[16:10] <BlackDex> i can now deploy/upgrade my nova-compute-vmware charm
[16:10] <rick_h_> BlackDex: sweet
[16:10] <TheAbsentOne> rick_h_: you know by any chance an example charm using mongo?
[16:10] <TheAbsentOne> some sort of webapp or something
[16:10] <BlackDex> i really need to get more into the charms
[16:10] <rick_h_> TheAbsentOne: hmm...not really. There was the old mongodb cluster bundle
[16:10] <BlackDex> like pushing them to the charm-store etc..
[16:10] <rick_h_> So mongonwith itself
[16:10] <BlackDex> if i want
[16:11] <TheAbsentOne> hmm
[16:11] <rick_h_> BlackDex: yea handy even if you just use for yourself
[16:11] <BlackDex> indeed :)
[16:11] <BlackDex> local is nice, but git/launchpad/store is better
[16:11] <TheAbsentOne> and I was surprised that the mongodb database interface layer wasn't on the layer-index, this one: https://github.com/tengu-team/interface-mongodb-database
[16:13] <BlackDex> now i have to check if it all works ofcourse and that openstack is able to use vmware, but that is the next step
[16:35] <kwmonroe> TheAbsentOne: you can query the store for charms that use mongo -- https://jujucharms.com/q/?requires=mongodb.  here's how telegraf uses mongo: https://git.launchpad.net/telegraf-charm/tree/reactive/telegraf.py#n386 and here's something similar for graylog: https://git.launchpad.net/graylog-charm/tree/reactive/graylog.py#n465
[16:37] <TheAbsentOne> gonna try this one out in a few hours kwmonroe: https://github.com/Ciberth/gdb-use-case/blob/master/mininimalexamples/mongo/mongo-proxy/reactive/mongo-proxy.py#L26
[16:37] <TheAbsentOne> should work right? :/
[16:40] <kwmonroe> yup TheAbsentOne, that'll work, but note that your request_mongodb function will fire every time a hook runs.  iow, you'll render that mongo template at least every 5 minutes (when update-status runs).
[16:41] <kwmonroe> TheAbsentOne: to prevent that, consider adjusting the decorator to "when(mongodb.connected); when_not(template.rendered); blah blah blah; set_flag(template.rendered)"
[16:42] <TheAbsentOne> hmm that's not good xD how would I solve that in a clean way setting up a flag and a when_not?
[16:42] <TheAbsentOne> ow lol xD
[16:42] <kwmonroe> you got it :)
[16:42] <TheAbsentOne> awesome!
[16:42] <kwmonroe> also, i said it will run on every hook invocation -- i meant it will run with every hook as long as mongodb.connected is set.  but you already knew that :)
[16:42] <TheAbsentOne> thx for saying that though, I didn't think about that at all
[16:43] <TheAbsentOne> I hope the collection might be of use to others too x)
[16:44] <kwmonroe> fo sho
[16:45] <kwmonroe> TheAbsentOne: you might also consider the case where mongodb is connected, but the connection string changes (perhaps a new mongo cluster member arrives and the address changes, or perhaps the port changes).  in that case, you may want to check for that in your request_mongodb function and only render if the mongodb relation data has changed... graylog does that here: https://git.launchpad.net/graylog-charm/tree/reactive/
[16:45] <kwmonroe> graylog.py#n472 <-- see it returns if the data hasn't changed since the initial invocation.
[16:47] <kwmonroe> TheAbsentOne: one other thing -- the tengu-team interface isn't in the layer index because therey's already a mongodb interface that points to https://github.com/cloud-green/juju-relation-mongodb.  so when you include interface:mongodb in your layer.yaml, you'll get that one.
[16:48] <TheAbsentOne> correct but as I understood the tengu team interface was meant as a proxy between mongodb interface and another one
[16:48] <TheAbsentOne> however I'm not sure about the changing connection string
[16:48] <TheAbsentOne> if it changes my function wont run right? So what use is that check
[16:49] <TheAbsentOne> if I add a when_not(template.rendered) flag that is
[16:50] <kwmonroe> right TheAbsentOne -- i was just saying there's 2 ways of handling that render function.  either do it once and set a flag + a when_not so the function doesn't execute again, or leave it the way it is and return if ! data_changed.
[16:51] <TheAbsentOne> ahn I understand my bad, I'll go with the flag I think it's more clear and it is more "reactive" programming
[16:51] <kwmonroe> the latter is more robust because it'll handle the case of a changed connection string.  the former means you'd be making an assertion that you never want to re-render that template as long as it's be done once.
[16:52] <TheAbsentOne> kwmonroe: if you have time would you mind checking my mysql folder too? It uses both the mysql-root and mysql-shared interface. I would love to hear your thoughts. Same remark about the rendering function I need to add a when_not
[16:52] <kwmonroe> yup, will do TheAbsentOne
[16:52] <TheAbsentOne> that's true too hmm since it's just minimal example I'll stick to the flags but I will add a note I think
[16:52] <TheAbsentOne> first some cooking x)
[16:52] <kwmonroe> +1
[17:27] <rick_h_> zeestrat: sorry, missed your question. We're waiting for feedback atm. RC's are promised to be able to upgrade to final
[17:28] <rick_h_> zeestrat: we've got one oracle bug that'll cause us to do a rc2 this week I think?
[17:28] <rick_h_> zeestrat: and hopefully get some positive feedback and feel good calling it final
[21:14] <magicaltrout> kev i'm gonna get my chaps going on hadoop storage in a week or so
[21:14] <magicaltrout> before i do so, anything i need to know in advance other than "currently we don't support it"
[21:15] <magicaltrout> kwmonroe
[21:15] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: first thing i think is probably top priority... don't expect my irc client to highlight "kev".
[21:15] <magicaltrout> i know
[21:16] <rick_h_> LoL
[21:16] <magicaltrout> not sure why i did that
[21:16] <magicaltrout> can you change your nick?
[21:16] <magicaltrout> thats the easy fix
[21:16] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: has a pet name for kwmonroe :p
[21:16] <magicaltrout> when the lovely kevin comes up in discussion in the office
[21:16] <magicaltrout> its usually kev
[21:17] <magicaltrout> I apologise
[21:17] <magicaltrout> when people refer to me, its usually dickhead, so to be honest you're a step above
[21:17] <rick_h_> Well we tech types do hate tying long variable names
[21:18] <kwmonroe> mag, second thing i would start with is right here: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-apache-bigtop-base/blob/master/lib/charms/layer/apache_bigtop_base.py#L612.  we hard code hadoop_storage_dirs to those.  i feel like this would be a great place to replace with a "@when storage attached, hadoop_data_dirs = hookenv.storage_get(location)"
[21:19] <magicaltrout> cool will do
[21:19] <magicaltrout>  < kwmonroe> mag, second thing i would start with is right here: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-apache-bigtop-base/blob/master/lib/charms/layer/apache_bigtop_base.py#L612.  we hard code
[21:19] <magicaltrout>                   hadoop_storage_dirs to those.  i feel like this would be a great place to replace with a "@when storage attached, hadoop_data_dirs = hookenv.storage_get(location)"
[21:19] <magicaltrout> meh
[21:19] <kwmonroe> yes yes, you have mastered the act of middle clicking your mouse
[21:19] <kwmonroe> now on to hdfs storage!
[21:20] <magicaltrout> sad times
[21:20] <kwmonroe> :)
[21:23] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: feel free to schedule a hangout when you're ready -- i have some ideas that cory_fu and bdx have helped mull over.
[21:24] <magicaltrout> is that prior to or post embarking on storage kwmonroe ?
[21:32] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: you mean cory_fu bdx and myself having ideas?  that's pre-embarking.  we had a meeting about what it would look like.  at its simplest, the charms that cared (namenode / datanode) would define 2 storage bits in their metadata.yaml -- data1 and data2.  the operator would attach relevant storage to those charms and we would use that location in lieu of that hard coded part in layer-apache-bigtop-base.
[21:32] <admcleod> 'big data' ?
[21:32] <kwmonroe> ban admcleod
[21:33]  * admcleod flee
[21:33] <kwmonroe> hmph, not working
[21:33] <magicaltrout> someones gotta do data
[21:33] <magicaltrout> its not all openstack :P
[21:34] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: that approach assumes a fixed set of storage in metadata.yaml -- and that's not ideal.  what if i wanted 5 disks instead of just 2?  what if i wanted a pre-configured mdraid device?  what if i wanted xyz?
[21:34] <magicaltrout> yeah makes sense
[21:34] <kwmonroe> so it has flaws, but it gets us *at least* what we have now with the ability to provision storage outside of "mkdir -p /data/1 /data/2", which is all we do now.
[21:35] <magicaltrout> don't see the problem with that :P
[21:36] <magicaltrout> i'm moving house this week and next, but it'd be good to get a call with me, you and my 2 interns soon to be full time employees i hope, so they can look really scared and we can talk storage
[21:36] <magicaltrout> are you around the week of the 25th?
[21:37] <kwmonroe> yup, i'll iron a tie for maximum professionalism
[21:38] <kwmonroe> that gives me 2 weeks to learn how to tie a tie
[21:39] <magicaltrout> cool, i'll see what days they're around and ship over some rough ideas, i can tell you thursday is out cause it appears england will be losing to belgium in the world cup that night ;)
[23:55] <wallyworld> vino_: here is where the charm (zip) uploads are processed https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/apiserver/charms.go#L205
[23:57] <wallyworld> and here is where we do the processing to update the charm doc in state https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/apiserver/charms.go#L390
[23:57] <vino_> wallyworld: ok i will have a look.
[23:57] <wallyworld> in those places we look inside the zip to to get the metadata etc, so can extract version as well
[23:58] <wallyworld> and use that to update the charm doc
[23:58] <vino_> ok. nothing has to be done at client side.


[03:02] <zubair_> UbuntuOne isn't working. It said An internet account is requried but I am already on internet
[03:05] <duanedesign> hello zubair_
[03:06] <duanedesign> zubair_: what version of Ubuntu are you on?
[11:44] <psypher246> hi all
[11:45] <psypher246> i got a question about this page on the faq
[11:45] <psypher246> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuOne/FAQ/SettingUpAnExistingAccount
[11:52] <psypher246> honk
[16:44]  * karni closes Eclipse. It's too tempting to have it open during weekends.
[19:29] <gourgi> hey! i just filled bug #775053. i cannot delete a contact in my couchdb addressbook. i get a gdbus unauthorised error. i 'll be around for a couple of hours if anyone wants to help! thanks :)
[19:29] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 775053 in evolution-couchdb (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[11.04 natty] cannot delete any contact from couchdb, evoilution returns gdbus unauthoriation error (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775053


[20:36] <xnox> I need to regain ops powers on a channel. I've contacted the original admin and he seems to be not on irc anymore.
[20:36] <xnox> do we have freenode admins who i can discuss this with?
[20:36] <dax> xnox: which channel?
[20:36] <xnox> Can I msg you in private msg?
[20:36] <dax> yes


 Gotta wait, what, 9 months for 14.04.01? Nnnngh.
[00:34] <Unit193> It's got the Task of most, if not all, -live.
[00:34] <Kamilion> I am almost certain it was available from the 13.04 and 13.10 media
[00:36] <Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.trusty/view/head:/live-common
[00:39] <Kamilion> so... is that saying it should be there? or shouldn't?
[00:41] <Kamilion> okay, so btrfs-tools is there on 12.10, 13.04, and 13.10
[00:41] <Kamilion> it's not there on my original 10.04.0 ISO
[00:42] <Unit193> Looking at the seed deps.
[00:42] <Kamilion> but does exist on 10.04.1 and 10.10/11.xx
[00:43] <Kamilion> This is really a PITA because ubiquity is what sets up the initial subvolumes @ and home so apt-btrfs-snapshot can do it's job
[00:45] <Unit193> Ah, there we go, I see it.  And I made a typo when checking the others, they have it.
[00:48] <Kamilion> ?
[00:48] <Kamilion> so it's just lubuntu?
[00:48] <Kamilion> that's not so bad, I can reroll the ISO myself with ubuntu-builder
[00:48] <Unit193> Kamilion: You're sure the older versions had it?  And seemingly yes, but might be a problem elsewhere.
[00:48] <Kamilion> yes!
[00:49] <Kamilion> I've been installing with btrfs for at least three years now
[00:49] <Kamilion> and installing apt-btrfs-snapshot every time
[00:49] <Unit193> Weird.  The 'live' seed is missing the dep on 'live-common'
[00:49] <Kamilion> normally I rely on my ubuntu-builder derived ISOs
[00:49] <Unit193> And it looks like it's been missing for a while, so something else must have pulled in btrfs-tools before.
[00:50] <Kamilion> but the ubuntu-builder project closed up shop just before trusty's release
[00:50] <Kamilion> I have a fixed version locally and in my PPA
[00:50] <Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.trusty/view/head:/live - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.trusty/view/head:/live-common - http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/xubuntu.trusty/live
[00:53] <Kamilion> rather suprised the ubiquity package doesn't have those as Requires instead of Suggests
[00:54] <Unit193> They are in recommends.
[00:59] <Kamilion> ohhh.
[01:00] <Kamilion> note to self: don't turn off recommends until post install then
[01:01] <Unit193> The seed has recommends off.
[01:24] <Unit193> Kamilion: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.utopic/+merge/217536 Figured why not.
[01:24] <Kamilion> SRU?
[01:25] <Unit193> Nah, so the same thing doesn't happen in utopic.
[01:25] <Kamilion> oh
[01:25] <Kamilion> cool.
[04:00] <_joey> the new release of the distro is buggy
[04:01] <_joey> the menu jumps from the left bottom corner to the right bottom corner. while network , sound and language appears on the lefgt
[04:01] <_joey> it's doing it by itself at random
[04:02] <_joey> nm-applet is not working properly too
[04:33] <_joey> the forum doesn't give a shit about the bugs?
[04:37] <wxl> !language | _joey
[04:50] <_joey> this is not ubuntu channel
[04:53] <wxl> _joey: yep, it is. just behave or you can leave.
[05:01] <_joey> if you don't like visitors asking questions, then leave the channel
[05:01] <wxl> _joey: it's against the policy of the channel to use the particular language you used. you are welcome to ask questions in an appropriate manner. consider the fact that sometimes, we have underage folks here.
[05:02] <wxl> _joey: if you can't be respectful, it's highly doubtful anyone's going to be motivated to respect you in turn, which is to say you are unlikely to get your question answered.
[05:19] <holstein> _joey: the menu relocates? in between boots?
[05:20] <holstein> are you using a different panel?  can you get the menu to do that on a live CD? are you using any PPAs?
[05:21] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/8rTJQ.png   <--- wut
[05:23] <Kamilion> *grumbles*
[05:23] <Kamilion> I knew I should have tested this stuff better in march.
[05:23] <holstein> i dont think btrfs is default yet
[05:23] <holstein> anywhere, that i know of..
[05:23] <Kamilion> who said it was default?
[05:24] <Kamilion> kind of more miffed it removed btrfs-tools after I installed them
[05:24] <holstein> it?
[05:24] <Unit193> Kamilion: So install it back in?
[05:24] <Kamilion> l u b u n t u
[05:24] <Kamilion> I did.
[05:24] <holstein> Kamilion: cool.. grumble in the offtopic channel please.. thanks
[05:24] <Kamilion> ...
[05:25] <Kamilion> man, do you guys actively try to piss people off, or are you just naturally good at it from hanging around in #ubuntu for so long? *detaches, goes to off-topic*
[09:03] <_joey> holstein: relocates during the same session
[09:03] <_joey> I am not using a different panel either. Just for came by default
[09:56] <JensNDS> linux sucks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOxlazS3zs#t=1466
[10:18] <bob_> Hi
[10:19] <bob_> How connect with  wireless connection on lubuntu please?
[10:38] <MaxFrames> hello.
[10:39] <MaxFrames> I have installed the 14.04 clean, and chosen Italian language and keyboard layout, but the logon screen keyboard layout appears to be English with no way to change it. Need help.
[12:59] <falafele> Hi all :) Lubuntu 14.04 is so nice! I just installed it :)
[13:00] <falafele> I am happy, it seems to have no one bug (in differece against another distro...) nya! ^o^
[13:24] <bjorn_> hi, I have a wierd problem, my network manager icon (the lower right corner) dont start at logon anymore. wifi works anyway. someone have a clue what have happened?
[15:13] <holstein> _joey: ok.. if you'd like to discuss, we can probably find out why you are the only person with migrating panel items
[15:14] <holstein> _joey: do you get the same behavior on a live CD? can you get the same behavior from another user? or the guest user?
[15:27] <_joey> holstein: I don't have the live CD. I believe there's a bug with network applet which has been reported
[15:27] <holstein> _joey: sure.. i am discussing the menu issue
[15:27] <_joey> maybe this network applet bug messes up the icons in the panel
[15:27] <_joey> don't know
[15:27] <holstein> _joey: maybe is just that.. we would need to confirm and test
[15:28] <holstein> _joey: let me know when you are willing/able to do so
[15:28] <_joey> what do I need to do?
[15:28] <holstein> jono_: ?
[15:28] <holstein> jono_: sorry..
[15:28] <jono_> holstein, np :-)
[15:28] <holstein> _joey: you dont need to do anything.. but, testing as i suggested above will help isolate a few things to help determine and troubleshoot
[15:29] <holstein> _joey: is the issue related to your graphics hardware linux support? is it an issue in your user config?
[15:29] <holstein> these are questions that will help us, when answered
[15:29] <_joey> holstein: I didn't have the issue in previous release
[15:29] <_joey> on the same hardware
[15:30] <holstein> _joey: ok
[15:30] <holstein> _joey: since the kernel is different, and the driver support, etc.. this only tells us that, at some point, the linux kernel was able to work with the hardware
[15:31] <_joey> I don't beleive the module for the graphics has been update between the kernel versions
[15:31] <_joey> it's not the kernel. I think it's the panel
[15:32] <holstein> _joey: ok..
[15:32] <holstein> !bug | _joey
[15:32] <holstein> _joey: you can file that against the panel, and try and get someone to confirm
[15:32]  * _joey takes a mental note never to upgrade to a new release till it's at least 3 months old
[15:32] <holstein> i can confirm i do not have that issue on any of my 14.04 lubuntu installations
[15:32] <holstein> _joey: nah
[15:33] <holstein> _joey: this is the best time to run the newer version.. waiting doesnt do anything like that
[15:33] <holstein> _joey: you might prefer a larger support system, such as xubuntu or main ubuntu.. or, try some of the suggestions i made to try and determine where the issue actually is
[15:33] <holstein> or, try a different panel.. or different desktop
[15:34] <holstein> its all ubuntu 14.04.. so, you can try adding/using xfce for example, and test a different DE and panel.. that will also tell you something.. though, you cant assume that the panel is the problem
[15:34] <_joey> try, try! ...
[15:35] <_joey> that's what the team that release it distro should be doing
[15:35] <_joey> also, ~/.xsessionrc is not getting read after boot
[15:36] <_joey> it was read in the last release
[15:42] <holstein> _joey: friend.. we do not have your hardware to test on
[15:42] <holstein> _joey: if you feel you have a bug, see the above link to create or link to a report.. i can only help you troubleshoot and isololate
[15:42] <holstein> !contribute
[15:43] <holstein> if you feel the distro is not getting the attention it needs, you can contribute, or try using one of the larger ones
[18:40] <bjorn_> Hi, I have a small problem. after a restart recently my network manager in the lower right corner doesn't show up. Anyhow my wifi works so it's just the indicator. Someone know how to fix this?
[18:40] <wxl> bjorn_: known bug. workaround is to run nm-applet
[18:41] <bjorn_> wxl, nm-applet? in the taskbar?
[18:42] <wxl> bjorn_: in terminal. or add to ~/.config/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart and it will load when it starts up.
[18:43] <bjorn_> aah. ok, its the origian  nm applet, so it will just autostart then? seems sweet
[18:43] <wxl> bjorn_: better yet add it as "@nm-applet" and it will also restart if it crashes for some reason
[18:44] <bjorn_> wxl, what does the @ stand for?
[18:45] <bjorn_> wxl, what is the standard terminal based text editor in lubutu?
[18:46] <wxl> bjorn_: @ means restart if crashes
[18:46] <wxl> bjorn_: nano, but i prefer vim
[18:47] <bjorn_> wxl, thanks, i tried with emacs but it didn't work
[18:48] <wxl> bjorn_: well you can use update-alternatives to make emacs your default
[18:48]  * wxl shudders at the thought of using emacs for doing anything but programming lisp
[18:48] <wxl> bjorn_: you should find that /etc/alternatives/editor points to your editor
[18:48] <wxl> bjorn_: also /usr/bin/editor points to /etc/alternatives/editor
[18:49] <wxl> bjorn_: that being said, just running `editor` is probably sufficient to use whatever the default is, at least assuming /usr/bin is in your $PATH
[18:50] <bjorn_> wxl, well. emacs is about the only one I have ever used, and that was in a Java course several years ago :) im not exactly a Linux nerd (yet) ;p
[18:50] <wxl> bjorn_: btw sudo update-alternatives --config editor
[18:58] <wxl> bjorn_: yeah well if you're using emacs, you're pretty nerdy ;)
[18:58] <bjorn_> ;P
[18:58] <wxl> bjorn_: needless to say emacs should work to edit whatever but setting up emacs is kind of weird (the editor's kind of weird, so it makes sense) so maybe that's the issue
[18:59] <wxl> bjorn_: admittedly most people have no idea what to do with vim when they run it. certainly not how to exit it
[18:59] <wxl> bjorn_: might try nano and be safe ;)
[18:59] <bjorn_> can I restart my session without restart my computer?
[18:59] <wxl> yep. you can logout or kill lightdm
[19:00] <bjorn_> kill lightdm? seems nerdy. will try
[19:01] <bjorn_> naah, didnt work. logout it will be. CU l8er
[19:03] <bjorn_> wxl, it worked! Thanks
[19:09] <bjorn_> I was about to give up on linux again... but maybe I will hang on this time around. I found my obosolete netbook some days ago and considered to throw it away, but now its up and running and it feels sweet. It's just so much more easy to write with than the Ipad so for surfing and simple spreadsheetings etc. its a blast!
[19:10] <wxl> bjorn_: plus it's free!
[19:10] <wxl> bjorn_: linux at times requires a certain amount of nerdyness but it's grown up for sure
[19:18] <bjorn_> I used ubuntu a while around 2006 but found out that there are a certain amount of situations that linux dont work if you are not really "in to it", printer drivers, web pages, compability with wierd .doc .xls formats etc. Its sad because linux is not that hard to get  a grip on even for us "non nerds" and if most coumputers was not boundled with windows I guess linux would evolve even faster
[19:18] <wxl> yeah all that is a non problem now
[19:19] <wxl> esp. now that a lot of manufacturers are getting more linux friendly, plus there are standard browsers, and libreoffice (kept updated) will handle any ms garbage
[19:22] <bjorn_> wxl, yes. right now im pissed of that I can't find a good .odt and .ods editor and for my android phone, so I still have to use xls and doc. :/
[19:23] <wxl> bjorn_: ohhh i found one before but i can't remember what is. opendocument something or other
[20:36] <bjorn_> hi all, now I have another slight problem. I cant lock my screen and my computer wakes up without password promt after "rest" mode. Is this normal?
[23:25] <comics_idees> Hi guys, I have dual screen in lubuntu. But I want wallpaper to cover both screens as a large extented picture, is it possible?
[23:25] <comics_idees> I tried to put a wallpaper but it covers only one screen
[23:26] <comics_idees> the other screen has default lubuntu wallpaper
[23:26] <comics_idees> the wallpaper I use is large enough in width to cover both screens
[23:27] <comics_idees> but it covers only one screen
[23:27] <comics_idees> what should I do?


[06:21] <lordievader> Good morning
[13:53] <TJ-> anyone think of a relatively painless way to have a server's LUKS-encrypted /boot/ content mirrored to another, TFTP, server, such that grub/kernel updates get replicated from the host to the remote so that this host can also do TFTP boot over the network - looking at using DRDB with onw half of the mirror on the localhost and the other on the TFTP server
[13:54] <TJ-> I *think* localhost would have to do e.g. /dev/sda3 > LUKS > DRDB > ext4 > /boot/ rather than /dev/sda3 > LUKS >ext4 > /boot/
[14:26] <sdeziel> TJ-: I'd probably use DRBD too but I don't know how easy it is to wire it into the boot logic
[14:26] <TJ-> it doesn't need to be. it just needs to be there when the OS is running so any updates get written to the TFTP server as well
[14:26] <TJ-> I'm almost finished configuring it now; will test shortly
[14:26] <sdeziel> TJ-: a possible alternative would be mdadm raid1 with a NBD disk as the mirror in (write-mostly)
[14:28] <TJ-> the idea is for a low power Raspi battery-backed survives a site power outage. The APU2 gateway (x86) doesn't and is LUKS encrypted and would require serial console to GRUB to unlock /boot/ ... the aim is to set the system to try a PXE boot first, and if a PXE server responds, then it'll boot over the network and not need GRUB unlocking.
[14:29] <TJ-> Raspi will monitor the state of the ethernet link between them and enable/disable dnsmasq when link goes down/up so it isn't always doing a TFTP boot
[14:30] <TJ-> so a regular APU2 reboot, with the switch remaining powered, won't cause raspi to start dnsmasq
[14:34] <rbasak> TJ-: this sounds awfully complicated and error-prone to me. Can you expand on the actual problem you're trying to solve here?
[14:38] <TJ-> rbasak: unlocking grub at boot time on an unattended gateway
[14:42] <rbasak> TJ-: what's your threat model?
[14:45] <TJ-> no gateway
[14:48] <rbasak> No - I mean why LUKS and also providing a method to bypass it? What's your threat model that requires LUKS but permits the bypass?
[14:48] <rbasak> Because there might be other solutions, but without understanding your threat model that leads you to that, it's difficult to suggest anything.
[14:51] <TJ->  literally, and figuratively. LUKS protects against there being no gateway (stolen). But device needs to be able to fully reboot since it is the gateway
[14:53] <rbasak> So don't use LUKS then? I'm playing devil's advocate here. What's the difference? You're OK with providing automatic unlocking if something has not had a power outage? In that case, won't Mandos work?
[14:53] <rbasak> Benefit is that it's less hackery.
[14:54] <TJ-> LUKS is protecting sensitive info
[14:54] <TJ-> no, LUKS is applied at the bootloader stage
[14:55] <rbasak> LUKS is protecting nothing if you happily hand over everything needed to unlock it over the LAN!
[14:56] <rbasak> If you consider "can get to the LAN" as "safe to unlock" under your threat model, then Mandos works without any less security.
[14:56] <leftyfb> TJ-: put the gateway on a UPS? ;)
[14:57] <TJ-> leftyfb: unfortunately not practical in this scenario
[14:58] <TJ-> Mandos doesn't protect against someone dropping a payload in the unencrypted /boot/ and collecting the data later.
[14:59] <rbasak> Nor does PXE booting first, where anyone on the LAN can MITM whatever they want.
[15:00] <TJ-> rbasak: but we'll know if there is any other device on the LAN, that isn't a problem.
[15:02] <rbasak> TJ-: that's a brave assumption.
[15:03] <rbasak> A switch with some MAC filtering will bypass that.
[16:15] <TJ-> seems that drbd cannot handle link-local addresses, despite recommending not to route and only connect on a local segment!
[16:19] <TJ-> rbasak: these things are outside, on top of very tall telegraph poles.
[16:43] <TJ-> strange, drbd Changelog says for 8.3 Improved IPv6: link local addresses. Kernel has 8.4.11
[18:24] <TJ-> Turns out there's a bug in drbd-utils - cannot handle "fe80::" style addresses - have to expand the :: fully dso "fe80:0:0:0:..."


[03:22] <kidsodateless> all, goodmorning
[03:27] <Terminus> morning kidsodateless
[06:46] <kidsodateless> good afternoon all :)
[06:46] <kidsodateless> Terminus, (hat's off)
[06:54] <Terminus> kidsodateless: wah?
[06:59] <kidsodateless> my hat is off to you
[06:59] <kidsodateless> my natty iso image is now updated! happy testing day! anyone wants to join? :D
[07:00] <Terminus> kidsodateless: and i still have no idea why your hat is off. =P
[10:31] <zeroseven0183> Good evening
[11:54] <kidsodateless> lhemz_05 hello, welcome to ubuntu team philippines forum :)
[11:55]  * kidsodateless Efren D. Montales JR
[11:55] <lhemz_05> thank u
[11:55] <lhemz_05> sir thanx


[22:49] <renatosilva> can I rename the bzr executable?
[22:52] <fullermd> I wouldn't think there'd be a reason why not...
[22:56] <renatosilva> good, I will try, thanks


[00:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: I get lost, it looks like a combinason of issues in fact
[00:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: the deadlock issue seems due to line 30, but doesn't happen if you comment line 22....... I'm lost
[00:07] <Nightrose> mi: I got the same problem sometimes
[00:07] <Nightrose> but on my whoe screen
[00:07] <Nightrose> *whole
[00:10] <Riddell> Tonio_: runs for me
[00:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: works for you ?
[00:11] <Tonio_> hum it looks like my installation needs to be freshed up a bit ;)
[00:11] <Riddell> Tonio_: oh, do you have oxygen installed?
[00:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: lemme look
[00:11] <Riddell> oxygen.so
[00:11] <Riddell> sudo rm /usr/lib/kde4/lib/kde4/plugins/styles/oxygen.so
[00:12] <Tonio_> is that supposed to change something ?
[00:13] <Riddell> it'll stop QtDbus being loaded
[00:13] <Tonio_> damned that fixed the issue
[00:13] <Riddell> yeah, it's a qt bug, had me tearing my hair out for a week
[00:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: you are a genius..... finding that a kde4 theme library can cause a python qt4 scrip to fail........
[00:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for the fix ;)
[00:14] <Riddell> http://www.mail-archive.com/pyqt%40riverbankcomputing.com/msg12848.html
[00:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: will read this thanks
[00:16] <Riddell>     args = sys.argv + ["-style=plastique"]
[00:16] <Riddell>     app = QApplication(args)
[00:16] <Riddell> that'll fix it
[00:16] <Riddell> or workaround rather
[00:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll upload with that workarround waiting for that to be fixed thanks
[00:19] <Tonio_> the stupid thing is that this script doesn't display any qt window ;)
[00:19] <Riddell> there should be a way of telling it that it's not a GUI app
[00:19] <Riddell> probably an argument to QApplication
[00:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: well Qapplication is part of QtGui right ?
[00:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes but I seem to remember there's a way of telling it that it's not really a GUI app
[00:29] <Tonio_> from PyQt4 import Qt
[00:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: instead of QtGui
[00:29] <Tonio_> that might work, I'm giving a try
[00:30] <mi> kde4 don't have in effects loose binding for nvidia ....that is reason why effects is not good here
[00:30] <mi> nvidia bad supported in kde4
[00:31] <Tonio_> mi ati too :)
[00:31] <mi> maybe kde-dev team visit compiz-dev ...lol
[00:32] <Tonio_> Riddell:  For non-GUI Qt applications, use QCoreApplication instead,
[00:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: voila
[00:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: but then "isrestoredsession" fails......
[00:33] <Tonio_> AttributeError: isSessionRestored
[00:34] <Tonio_> I need to investigate in the docs
[00:35] <Riddell> nothing wrong with ["-style=plastique"]
[00:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, am I wrong saying that if we use coreapplication it might not restore an then there is no need for that test ?
[00:36] <Riddell> I've no idea
[00:36] <Tonio_> I'll test
[00:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: good news also is that with the help of mhb and toma we are not that far to have a kdesudo-kde4 working
[00:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: atm it works except fails when sudo has some cached passwd, due to X errors
[00:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have to get the kcookie thing to work correctly and use a /tmp copied Xauthority file
[00:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: once that done hopefully we can release a preliminary version
[00:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: bad news is that I may not have time to finish the apt:/ protocol before the feature freeze......
[00:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll do my best to make it a bit better before then
[00:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: on the other hand the repos addition isn't widelly used, and the main functionnality work (adding, removing packages)
[00:53] <Tonio_> trying kblueplugd fixed
[01:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed a qcoreappllication doesn't restore, I'll upload the fixed package
[01:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for the help ! :)
[01:22] <cheguevara> anyone uses mono by any chance
[01:56] <ScottK2> cheguevara: RAOF in #ubuntu-motu
[02:02] <cheguevara> thx ScottK
[02:45] <cheguevara> ooh 4.0.1 tarballs are being uploaded
[02:45] <Hobbsee> \o/
[02:45] <nosrednaekim> yaaaa
[02:46] <cheguevara> Unfortunately
[02:46] <cheguevara> there was a problem with kde-l10n generation so I have to redo them and
[02:46] <cheguevara> upload later today.
[04:00] <cheguevara> http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog4_0to4_0_1.php
[04:31] <mi> when will see this changes in repo?
[05:38] <nixternal> hacking under the glow of LED is whicked elite..I feel like I am working in some underground bunker for some corrupt government
[05:38] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:38] <nixternal> im in your cabinets eatin your captain crunch
[05:39] <nixternal> finally woke up from my over-the-counter drugged up stuper
[09:04] <davmor2> Riddell: has the release gone out yet?
[09:05] <nixternal> everyone is just getting about that works on the release, so expect it in the next few hours as long as there aren't any hiccups
[09:05]  * nixternal finally beds
[09:18] <_StefanS_> morning..
[09:19] <_StefanS_> kwwii: can we use the oxygen iconset in kde3, now that its formally released?
[09:19] <_StefanS_> probably a longshot ;)
[09:19] <_StefanS_> ie. not likely.
[10:26] <Riddell> davmor2: no, there's still a problem in the installer
[10:26] <davmor2> Riddell: which installer?
[10:27] <Riddell> davmor2: ubiquity
[10:27] <davmor2> (back is a bit better so wanted to know if I was too late to test stuff )
[10:27] <Riddell> but 186147
[10:27] <davmor2> turns out not by a long shot :)
[10:28] <davmor2> bug 186147
[10:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186147 in ubiquity "ubiquity "failed to remove conflicting files"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186147
[10:28] <Lure> _StefanS_: you can, but you need to rename back to old naming scheme - not sure if anybody did that already
[10:28] <_StefanS_> Lure: someone from archlinux did that..
[10:28] <_StefanS_> Lure: and it works great.
[10:28] <Lure> _StefanS_: so it should be easy to prepare kde3 package for ubuntu
[10:29] <davmor2> bit of an issue then
[10:29] <Lure> _StefanS_: any links?
[10:29] <_StefanS_> Lure: two secs
[10:29]  * Lure would work on this as does not like kde3 kontact with old icons
[10:29] <davmor2> does this mean I may as well stop testing cause they'll be another version to download any time soon?
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Lure: I'm talking about replacing the default crystal icons with these for hardy
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Lure: if kwii likes it..
[10:30] <Lure> _StefanS_: we could discuss, but at least having it as option would be great
[10:30] <_StefanS_> indeed.
[10:31]  * _StefanS_ really dislikes crystal.
[10:32] <_StefanS_> ah mepislovers :)
[10:32] <_StefanS_> not archlinux heeh
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Lure: http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13239&page=2
[10:33] <kwwii> _StefanS_: I would rather not (and it would be a lot of work anyway)
[10:33] <_StefanS_> kwwii: uhm atleast I can dream :)
[10:34] <_StefanS_> kwwii: well, I'm trying to mock up something now
[10:34] <_StefanS_> kwwii: first thing would be to remove that awful (imho) fractal background...
[10:34] <Riddell> davmor2: we have a likely fix for ubiquity, the question is if I can get it in or do we need to wait for the americans to wake up
[10:35] <davmor2> Riddell: harsh :)
[10:37] <davmor2> Riddell: So the big question.  Do I carry on burning the Images I've downloaded or not?
[10:38] <Riddell> davmor2: alternate ones yes, desktop ones well all testing is good but they'll likely be new ones at some point today that need testing too
[10:38] <davmor2> right I'll stick with alts for now then
[10:40] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I guess we will have to stick to the blueish scheme ?
[10:42] <kwwii> _StefanS_: well, unless someone comes up with something that everyone thinks is better, yes
[10:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok
[10:46] <_StefanS_> kwwii: the default size of the wallpapers, should that be 1920x1200, or smaller?
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: Ie. the "max" size we're expecting to have without it getting scaled.
[10:47] <kwwii> _StefanS_: it should be at least that size or bigger
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: oka
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: 4:3 or wide?
[10:47] <kwwii> both, preferably
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: afaik we cant determine that, right?
[10:48] <kwwii> yes
[11:06] <_StefanS_> kwwii: could you make a version of the edgy buttons where the top looks like the bottom, so the minimize/close doesn't fade out in the top?
[11:07] <kwwii> _StefanS_: erm, we do have an svg of the icons and the gimp file used to finalize them...not sure if I have enough time though
[11:07] <kwwii> _StefanS_: if you want the files let me know and I can send them to you
[11:08] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok send them my way then
[11:10] <_StefanS_> Riddell: it seems like the all black text for kdm wasn't added to alpha4 (date is still grey, and difficult to read)
[11:27] <Lure> kwwii: did you do battery icons for oxygen or was that nuno?
[11:29] <Riddell> grep StatusColor /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/kubuntu/Theme.rc
[11:29] <Riddell> StatusColor = #000000
[11:29] <Riddell> _StefanS_: ^^
[11:35] <kwwii> Lure: the newest ones are from nuno
[11:40] <Lure> kwwii: I would need mouse/keyboard overlay (similar to AC), for battery/keyboard battery presentation
[11:40] <Lure> kwwii: will talk with nuno then
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the splash is fine, the kdm decoration is the one I mean
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: its also the only one with a date :)
[11:53] <mhb> good mornin
[11:54] <Riddell> #
[11:56] <mhb> Riddell: # to you, too
[11:56] <_StefanS_> ##
[12:12] <SlimG> What's the reason for making D3lphin the default filebrowser? imho Konqueror does a great job at that already
[12:15] <Riddell> SlimG: dolphin is focused on file management, you can still use konqueror
[12:16] <SlimG> Riddell: So it has features not yet implemented in Konqueror?
[12:16] <SlimG> advanced features I assume
[12:16] <Riddell> it has a simpler user interface
[12:25] <SlimG> Mkay, I seem to understand that new users (or most users even) prefer separate filemanager and webbrowser to avoid confusion, I just thought more people shared my interpretation of simplicity :)
[12:25] <_StefanS_> hmm just found a bug in dolphin related to fish..
[12:26] <hads> There's a couple o' bugs in 3, 4 is nicer.
[12:27] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I patched the kwin style to allow the shadows only on the active windows: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot1.png
[12:27] <_StefanS_> kwwii: which is alot better than the current "double" text on inactive windows
[12:36] <kwwii> _StefanS_: cool, looks nice
[12:37] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I will experiment with qtcurve now
[12:37] <_StefanS_> kwwii: donno about the background, I cant seem to find something blue that is nice
[12:38] <kwwii> _StefanS_: actually lots of people like the current wallpaper
[12:39] <_StefanS_> kwwii: the fractals ?? 1996.. ?
[12:40] <mhb> lots?
[12:41] <mhb> I've heard some, but not lots
[12:42] <kwwii> mhb: I have heard quite a few more likes than disklikes
[12:42] <kwwii> in the end, whatever is chosen by the majority wins, naturally
[12:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: this is how it would look with oxygen on it : http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot2.png
[12:43] <kwwii> personally, I would prefer not using oxygen in kde3
[12:43] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I know, but just to show you
[12:46] <Riddell> using oxygen in kde 3 would make all the oxygen artists grumpy, we don't want that
[12:47] <_StefanS_> yes they will probably be kinda irritated.
[12:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: how long would it take for you to fix those buttons I talked about?
[12:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: thing is, I'm not that confident in gimp
[12:48] <kwwii> _StefanS_: if i knew *exactly* what I wanted to do it would take a day or so
[12:48] <_StefanS_> kwwii: uhm ok, we dont want to you use a day doing just that :) - I will try
[12:52] <kwwii> _StefanS_: I might find time to take a swing at it but right now I cannot promise
[12:52] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I'm doing it now, no worries. Also I dont know if it will look good. So dont waste your time
[12:53] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I will prepare a patch for kwin-style-crystal where the textShadow only affects active windows, if thats okay?
[12:53] <Riddell> _StefanS_: I don't see any shadow on the text
[12:54] <Riddell> infact you seem to have a slightly different theme than I'm seeing
[12:54] <_StefanS_> Riddell: err.. if you enable textshadow in hardy you will find the inactive windows having a double sort of shadow that looks awful. Its because the inactive window texts are black
[12:55] <Riddell> _StefanS_: oh, so this is only to help people who enable it by default?
[12:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well I hoped, if we could agree to enable shadow by default in the active windows :)
[12:56] <_StefanS_> Riddell: does alot to the readability on the active windows.
[12:56] <Riddell> ok
[12:57] <Riddell> _StefanS_: go ahead then
[12:57] <kwwii> one thing that we should do is decide what to set in qtcurve
[12:57] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ok cool
[12:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes ofcourse, I will experiment with that, and come up with more or less conversative ideas
[12:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: and you guys can have a look at it.
[12:58] <Hobbsee> we're going for qtcurve?
[12:58] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: well only if I can make it look good, and everything likes and so on..
[12:59] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: likes it
[12:59] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:59] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: just a my two cents basically.
[13:01] <kwwii> Hobbsee: I think it would be a good time to switch (and qtcurve is pretty nice)
[13:02] <Hobbsee> kwwii: i was never overly impressed with it, but it may well suit kde4 better than kde3
[13:02] <Hobbsee> and, people can probably make it looked good - i only explored the defaults
[13:08] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: it can look really nice
[13:14] <jpatrick> guten tag allee
[13:20] <Hobbsee> tag, jpatrick.  Wie gehts?
[13:21] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I just sent you the patch for kwin-style-crystal
[13:33] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: sher gut, und dir?
[13:34] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: ja, gut.
[13:36] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: kannst du zu Debian upload machen?
[13:37] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, i heard intel is going to be reverted to XAA again?
[13:37] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: nein, ich ein DD nicht.
[13:37]  * allee suggest for next meeting: rename #kubuntu-devel to #kubuntu-devel-de
[13:37] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: i think that's the plan, yes
[13:37] <Hobbsee> allee: if only i could speak it better...
[13:38] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, do you think there's any possibility of convincing X/kernel teams to merge the new drm modules
[13:38] <cheguevara> releasign an LTS with XAA is not good
[13:38] <allee> Hobbsee: was schreibst du?  Ich verstehe kein Englisch mehr ;)
[13:38] <cheguevara> *releasing
[13:38]  * jpatrick suggests allee take a look at http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=kde-style-domino
[13:38] <blizzzek> allee: in the current germen chans, the -de comes right after kubuntu, and the the other part, e.g. #kubuntu-de-offtopic
[13:38] <Hobbsee> allee: :P
[13:38] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: i have commit rights to debian-qt-kde, as does allee
[13:39] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: has debian done so yet?  last i knew, they were waiting on debian
[13:39]  * allee has first to get FAI running :(
[13:39] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I know, something I have yet to gain
[13:39] <cheguevara> meh ubuntu kernel development is not really in line wtih debian
[13:39] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: the X stuff, in particular
[13:39] <cheguevara> X stuff doesn't need any changes its the kernel
[13:40] <cheguevara> i am building a kernel with the needed modules atm to see how it performs
[13:40] <allee> jpatrick: I'm not a DD or MOTU.  So not much I can sponsor at all
[13:42] <jpatrick> allee: ah, okay, endschdiung
[13:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot3.png , let me know what you think..
[13:43] <Nightrose> a friend of mine needs flash in konqueror for her work (she is doing website stuff for nestle and needs to test in konqueror) - and I remember that flash in konqueror was broken - is that fixed yet and if not can you tell me when it is expected to be fixed?
[13:44] <buz> works for me
[13:44] <buz> in hardy
[13:44] <buz> did so in gutsy
[13:44] <Nightrose> hmm my flash in gutsy is b0rked in konqueror :(
[13:44] <_StefanS_> Nightrose: I think Riddell just uploaded a new flashplayer ..
[13:44] <Nightrose> _StefanS_: that would be awesome
[13:44] <buz> in konqueror3 it definitely works
[13:45] <_StefanS_> #173890
[13:45] <buz> in konqueror4 it seems broken
[13:45] <_StefanS_> buz: most stuff is.
[13:46] <buz> thats true
[13:46] <Nightrose> _StefanS_: thx a lot - will tell her
[13:46] <_StefanS_> I noticed it didn't work, but havent checked out what might cause it
[13:46] <_StefanS_> Nightrose: well, you should ask Riddell himself to be sure though ;)
[13:47] <Nightrose> yea /me uses kde 4 so it might be due to that
[13:47] <buz> Nightrose: try /usr/bin/konqueror instead of konqueror-kde4
[13:48] <Nightrose> buz: will do to check - but really I use firefox most of the time anyway because of the extensions
[13:48] <Nightrose> so doesn´t bother me much
[13:53] <buz> i like konqueror
[13:53] <buz> its faster than firefox
[13:53] <buz> but firefox is more accepting of broken websites
[13:54] <ScottK> buz: For Konqueror that's a feature, not a bug.
[13:54] <buz> i wasnt complaining
[13:54] <ScottK> K
[13:54] <kwwii> _StefanS_: nice...one thing to think about: the gloss on the window deco should match the gloss on the widgets
[13:54] <Riddell> Nightrose: it depends on what version of flash you have
[13:54] <buz> (but i'm in favor of webkit while we're at it)
[13:54] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yep, I will try that
[13:54] <Nightrose> Riddell: ok which one should she have?
[13:56] <_StefanS_> kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot4.png ?
[13:57] <kwwii> _StefanS_: close, but it still needs a bit more love
[13:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: probably :) - what areas?
[13:57] <cheguevara> http://www.osnews.com/story/19254
[13:57] <kwwii> _StefanS_: the lightlight part of the gloss needs to be the same
[13:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: okay
[13:58] <_StefanS_> kwwii: well on the buttons ?
[13:58] <kwwii> in that screenshot the window deco has a line at which the gloss stops, the qtcurve stuff doesn't
[13:58] <Riddell> Nightrose: it depends how she's installing it
[13:59] <Riddell> Nightrose: updates for konqueror are going into gutsy-proposed today
[13:59] <kwwii> _StefanS_: looks pretty good
[13:59] <Nightrose> Riddell: I assume she did everything via adept (she is new to linux and kubuntu)
[14:02] <_StefanS_> kwwii: to mimic the looks of the widgets/buttons we need to make a new overlay for the windeco it seems
[14:03] <_StefanS_> kwwii: using just "Glass" is what I'm doing now
[14:07] <kwwii> _StefanS_: right, exactly
[14:09] <Riddell> Nightrose: she should enable gutsy-proposed "proposed updates" and install flashplayer-nonfree sometime tomorrow
[14:09] <_StefanS_> kwwii: also the buttons is causing me problems :( - So maybe you could fix them ? the lower half of the kubuntu edgy", I made this (ugly) mockup: http://enhance-it.dk/buttons.png
[14:09] <Nightrose> Riddell: perfect thx
[14:10] <_StefanS_> kwwii: they way they are now is making the buttons look "unfinished"
[14:10] <kwwii> _StefanS_: right
[14:10] <kwwii> _StefanS_: we used a version like that before gutsy
[14:10] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I know, but it didn't have the transperancy going like the current ones
[14:11] <_StefanS_> kwwii: newer ones are nicer
[14:11] <kwwii> ;-)
[14:11] <kwwii> I'll see how much time I have
[14:12] <_StefanS_> kwwii: cool, prefs for the style is here: http://enhance-it.dk/kubuntu-new.qtcurve
[14:18] <kwwii> I really like this wallpaper: http://djmattricks.deviantart.com/art/Aquapattern-46516380
[14:19] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes thats pretty cool
[14:19] <_StefanS_> kwwii: should ask the guy if we can use it?
[14:20] <kwwii> couldn't hurt
[14:20] <_StefanS_> kwwii: okay
[14:20] <_StefanS_> kwwii: dont know how it would work with the current kubuntu colors on the deco though..
[14:21] <kwwii> _StefanS_: well, we would have to change them then ;-
[14:21] <kwwii> )
[14:21] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes, I was just thinking that it might become way too light..
[14:21] <Riddell> _StefanS_: it would need to be not noncommercial
[14:22] <_StefanS_> Riddell: okay.. maybe he could change it from creative commons then
[14:23] <Riddell> _StefanS_: CC is fine, just not noncommercial
[14:23] <_StefanS_> Riddell: CC 3.0
[14:24] <Riddell> what about it?
[14:24] <_StefanS_> well its version 3.0.. maybe you knew something I didnt :)
[14:24] <_StefanS_> havent really explored those licenses and what they stand for
[14:25] <_StefanS_> kwwii: seems kinda hard to get his email
[14:25] <Riddell> 14:23 < Riddell> _StefanS_: CC is fine, just not noncommercial
[14:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yes I saw it the first time :)
[14:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: can we use it without asking then ?
[14:25] <Riddell> _StefanS_: no, since it's noncommercial
[14:25] <_StefanS_> ok
[14:27] <_StefanS_> kwwii: got it now, you need to subscribe a membership (which i just did)
[14:31] <jjesse> interesting, micosoft started a hostile takeover of yahoo, 42 billion dollars us
[14:31] <ScottK> jjesse: Linkage please?
[14:32] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok sent it.
[14:32] <kwwii> _StefanS_: cool, thanks
[14:33] <_StefanS_> kwwii: one thing.. what about the kicker background ?
[14:33] <_StefanS_> kwwii: any preferences, because I'm not sure whats the best solution
[14:34] <jjesse> ScottK: saw it on forbes.com
[14:34] <kwwii> _StefanS_: nope, no opinions on my part
[14:34] <ScottK> Thanks
[14:35] <jjesse> ScottK: http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/02/01/afx4602885.html
[14:35] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok, maybe it will cook something up then
[14:35] <jjesse> yahoo stock up 52%
[14:38] <jjesse> ScottK: http://www.forbes.com/home/markets/2008/02/01/microsoft-yahoo-update-markets-equity-cx_ll_0201markets13.html
[14:38] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:54] <buz> has anyone got a working java plugin in either fireforx or konqui in hardy?
[16:56] <Riddell> people use java? :)
[16:58] <jpatrick> Riddell: nixternal does
[16:59] <Riddell> well, for applets
[17:01] <buz> somehow, /usr/bin/java does not even exist if i install sun-java5-bin
[17:02] <flipstar> try /usr/lib/jvm/java-5-sun-<version>/jre/
[17:03] <buz> if i install java6 it appears
[17:03] <flipstar> btw for me it does i just linked it for firefox
[17:03] <flipstar> never tested before
[17:03] <Riddell> try sun-java5-jre
[17:04] <buz> the vm crashes
[17:04] <buz> in firefox
[17:04] <buz> lets try java5 again
[17:05] <flipstar> in firefox 3 beta2 and hardy it just works for me
[17:05] <buz> crashes with java5 too
[17:05] <flipstar> but using java-6-sun-<IP_ADDRESS>
[17:05] <buz> i must be missing something
[17:06] <Riddell> not working in konqueror, it stays on "loading applet"
[17:06] <buz> mine just stays gray
[17:12] <buz> the vm crashes due to some xlib error
[17:15] <Riddell> I get "java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed." on one applet
[17:15] <buz> i get that on everything
[17:16] <buz> http://pastebin.ca/887822
[17:17] <flipstar> some time ago it also crashed when i enabled java..but now with firefox 3 beta2 hardy and java-6-sun-<IP_ADDRESS> it seems solved for me :)
[17:20] <buz> reliably crashes with anything i throw at it
[17:21] <buz> ah well i just reported a bug report
[17:28] <flipstar> for me it works ..
[17:34] <buz> could be some xorg issue
[17:34] <buz> what graphics card do you have
[17:45] <flipstar> nvidia gt6800 using nvidia 165.33.09 beta driver
[17:45] <flipstar> my browser is beta by driver also and my os is alpha oO
[18:15] <buz> hmm intel 965 here
[18:24] <cheguevara> buz, whats the bug number
[18:25] <buz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/188106
[18:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188106 in sun-java6 "sun-java6 dumps core on hardy" [Undecided,New]
[18:28] <cheguevara> marked as a duplicate
[18:45] <Riddell> davmor2 and all: new alternate CDs up for testing
[18:48] <buz> interesting, never had that bug before
[18:48] <buz> and i've used java with several apps on gutsy
[18:51] <nixternal> Riddell: echo "export LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=true" >> ~/.bash_profile
[18:51] <nixternal> that will fix your Java problem
[18:52] <nixternal> Riddell: that issue probably will not go away until the next release of Java
[18:57] <cheguevara> there was a fix in xlib
[18:57] <cheguevara> i don't see why they had to remove it
[18:58] <buz> indeed, no more crashes
[19:00] <buz> nixternal: thanks!
[19:00] <nixternal> no problem
[19:23] <jpatrick> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1113
[19:28] <ScottK2> Yep.  I read that and decided not to comment right away.  Better to calm down first.
[19:29]  * jpatrick hugs ScottK2
[19:29] <ScottK2> Thanks.
[19:31] <Riddell> it would help if Aaron's grumpy comment actually made grammatical sense :)
[19:31] <ScottK2> Sure.  It's just that Jono's rationale doesn't make that much sense to me either.
[19:32] <ScottK2> LTS or not, it's still 3.5 in Main and 4.whatever in Universe.
[19:32] <ScottK2> So KDE4 doesn't affect LTS.
[19:33] <jpatrick> hi Lure
[19:35] <Lure> jpatrick: good evening
[19:35] <jpatrick> Lure: well, it is an evening, don't know about the other part
[19:36] <Lure> jpatrick: then make it good ;-)
[19:36] <Riddell> ScottK2: the rational is that if we're working on two desktops we don't have time to get one of them, even the super stable 3.5, to the quality level of an LTS
[19:36] <jpatrick> Lure: /me is getting a bollocking from pusling in #debian-qt-kde ;)
[19:37]  * Lure needs to answer jono on lts e-mail...
[19:37] <ScottK2> Riddell: Which may even be accurate, but isn't how Jono explained it.
[19:37] <Lure> jpatrick: really?
[19:37] <jpatrick> Lure: ah, he seems to have accepted the package :D
[19:38] <Riddell> ScottK2: true
[19:38] <ScottK2> If he's going to bitch someone out in public, his bitching ought to be accurate.
[19:39] <nixternal> interesting read on the planet just now
[19:40] <jpatrick> nixternal: scroll up :D
[19:40] <nixternal> ahh, you are already talking about it :p
[19:40] <nixternal> hahaha
[19:40] <Riddell> oh stop reading flamewards and go test alpha 4 candidates! :)
[19:40] <ScottK2> That's what you get living an hour behind a real time zone.
[19:40] <nixternal> Riddell: I am doing that now buddy :)
[19:40] <Riddell> nixternal: excellent.  alternates only just yet
[19:40] <nixternal> 13:15:54 (681.19 KB/s) - `hardy-alternate-amd64.iso' saved [695771136/695771136]
[19:40] <nixternal> speaking of which
[19:41]  * nixternal gets to burning
[19:41] <nixternal> my desktop has been yearning for Kubuntu for over a week now :)
[19:41] <nixternal> OK, this going through 100 CDRs every couple of months is getting old
[19:41] <davmor2> ScottK2:  Question for you if KDE4 takes off like a rocket how long before the 3 series gets dropped?
[19:41] <nixternal> I need to get a professional sponsor from a CDR manufacturer :)
[19:41] <Riddell> use RWs?
[19:41] <jpatrick> buy some -rw's
[19:42] <Riddell> davmor2: undecided but could well be in hardy+1
[19:42] <nixternal> I have never been a fan of RWs
[19:42] <davmor2> In which case you can hardly offer LTS support on 3 :)
[19:43] <nixternal> plus, after you go through 200 CDs, you go buy a cold cathode tube from the local electronics shop, and you can make a really cool looking lamp out of your old CDs
[19:43] <ScottK2> davmor2: It's going to be a long time.  KDE has said that.  KDE4 isn't even feature complete yet.
[19:43] <davmor2> and currently 4 isn't via for LTS :( which is a shame I actually quite like it (sshh I'm a gnome user)
[19:44] <Riddell> davmor2: one could, it won't get dropped from hardy ever
[19:44] <ScottK2> Riddell: Given where we are though, I think it'd only be fair to provide Dapper --> Hardy upgrade support for Kubuntu since people who went with LTS were sort of promised an upgrade path.
[19:45] <jjesse_> i would agrre w/ ScottK2
[19:45] <Riddell> that's actually the hardest bit
[19:45] <ScottK2> Yes, but it's the bit that's been promised to those who stuck with the previous LTS.
[19:46] <jpatrick> I thought we upgraded to KDE 3.x
[19:46] <nixternal> before we try that, it would be nice to see how many people are still updating via the repos, a Kubuntu Dapper install
[19:46] <nixternal> there has got to be logs of that stuff somewhere
[19:46] <ScottK2> nixternal: How would you know?
[19:46] <nixternal> don't the repos log each connection and what it is grabbing at all?
[19:47] <ScottK2> nixternal: How many mirrors are there?
[19:48] <nixternal> OK, time to go all business for a second...what really irritates me about Free/Open Source Software projects, 99.9% of the time, they make decisions w/o one lick of data to back up that decision
[19:49] <nixternal> they go by instinct/gut feeling, by people saying "ya that would rock", and so on
[19:49] <nixternal> sometimes they get lucky, but quite a bit of the time, they get bitched at
[19:50] <nixternal> Red Hat/Fedora realizes that, and have been working on creating a dataset just to see how much action/interaction is taking place
[19:51] <nixternal> we can't sit here and say  we need Dapper -> Hardy for all of the users, and come to find out that there is 1 person who is remotely interested in it, or 1 person who is only using Dapper
[19:51] <nixternal> we are wasting resources, especially when we are lacking resources
[19:52] <ScottK2> Personally, I've been more worried about it reinforcing the perception that Kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen.
[19:53] <ScottK2> Anyone here know anything about Ruby?
[19:53] <nixternal> for all the people saying that "kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen", they still seem to enjoy using it
[19:53] <nixternal> I know absolutely dooky about Ruby
[19:53] <jpatrick> ScottK2: some of us do... :)
[19:53] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Could you help me test something out?
[19:53] <jpatrick> of course
[19:54] <ScottK2> We're trying to kill off libdb4.2/3/4.  So libdb4.2/3-ruby need to die too.
[19:55] <ScottK2> I've made a libdb4.6-ruby package, but am unable to tell if it really works or not.
[19:55] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Would you be willing to play with the examples a bit if I gave you the package?
[19:55] <jpatrick> is it for Hardy?
[19:55] <ScottK2> Yes, but it builds fine on Gutsy too.
[19:56] <davmor2> Riddell: have the new builds gone through now?
[19:56] <jpatrick> ScottK2: ok, I can test
[19:56] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Great.  I'll give you a link for the .dsc in a moment.
[19:57] <ScottK2> jpatrick: http://www.kitterman.com/test/libdb4.6-ruby_0.6.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[19:57]  * jpatrick dgets
[19:57] <ScottK2> jpatrick: I've got a Gutsy i386 .deb if you want it.
[19:57] <nixternal> heh, someone gave me a ruby app to test for them recently, and I was absolutely dumbfounded on what the hell I should do with it :)
[19:58] <ScottK2> Maybe jpatrick would be willing to learn you something while he's at it.
[19:58] <jpatrick> ScottK2: ah, I just feed it to prevu :)
[19:58] <nixternal> I bought a Ruby book, but haven't even stressed the binding on it yet :p
[19:59]  * ScottK2 shudders
[19:59] <jpatrick> nixternal: oh, and congrats btw!
[19:59] <jpatrick> ScottK2: but I can test the .deb sure
[20:00] <nixternal> thanks jpatrick
[20:00] <ScottK2> jpatrick: The .deb's in the same place.
[20:04] <jpatrick> ScottK2: ok, installed, what should I test?
[20:04] <ScottK2> jpatrick: If you look in the source package, there are several examples.
[20:04] <ScottK2> I'd suggest running through the examples and see if they 'work'.
[20:08] <jpatrick> ScottK2: appears to be missing something..
[20:08] <jpatrick> ./clean.rb:1:in `require': no such file to load -- ../src/bdb (LoadError)
[20:08] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Yes /src/bdb exists.  That confused me.
[20:12] <Riddell> davmor2: alternate only
[20:12] <jpatrick> ScottK2: is it not a binary? (juding by the .c files)
[20:12] <Riddell> (seems I was wrong saying alternate didn't need a rebuild earlier)
[20:12] <ScottK2> Ah.
[20:13] <davmor2> Grrrr shugin fashin shugin fashin dick dastardly
[20:14] <davmor2> Riddell: any ideas when they'll be available?
[20:15] <Riddell> davmor2: shortly after 1.7.6 appears here
[20:15] <Riddell> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubiquity/
[20:15] <Riddell> hopefully < an hour
[20:16] <davmor2> :(
[20:18] <Riddell> 20:17 < slangasek> ok, ubiquity published at last, starting image builds
[20:18] <Riddell> davmor2: ^^
[20:19] <davmor2> yay
[20:19] <ScottK2> jpatrick: What happens if you execute the example from in the source tree?
[20:20] <jpatrick> ScottK2: same
[20:20] <ScottK2> Urgh.
[20:21] <ScottK2> jpatrick: You're the Ruby expert in the room.  Any suggestions?
[20:22] <jpatrick> ScottK2: that'd be apachelogger_ :)
[20:22]  * ScottK2 looks around....
[20:22] <jpatrick> ScottK2: but basically it's trying to "import" something it can't find
[20:23] <jpatrick> like that lib
[20:23] <ScottK2> I've no idea what to do about that.
[20:24] <jpatrick> one sec, I'll poke around some here
[20:24] <ScottK2> Thanks.
[20:25] <ScottK2> jpatrick: libdb4.3-ruby1.8 is in the archives if you want a know to work package to play around with.
[20:39] <jpatrick> ScottK2: hmm, complex issue
[20:40]  * ScottK2 listens
[20:41] <jpatrick> built and it still doesn't pick it up
[20:42] <jpatrick> sorry, I just don't know.. :(
[20:43] <ScottK2> jpatrick: I think I found another person to look at it.
[20:43] <ScottK2> Thanks for looking
[20:43] <jpatrick> #ruby should be full of fish
[20:43] <ScottK2> There's a project I'm consulting on that is being done in Ruby, and the guy that's coding it just showed up.
[20:44] <ScottK2> If he doesn't come up with something, I'll try there.  Thanks again.
[20:44] <jpatrick> there's always apachelogger_
[20:45]  * ScottK2 looks around again...
[20:54]  * Lure had to reply on his own e-mail after reading jon blog post :-(
[20:55] <Lure> why are we opening this can of worms again - I though that we are behind it :-(
[20:55] <ScottK2> Apparently not.
[21:04] <jpatrick> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/kde-style-domino_0.4-1.html
[21:08] <mhb> Lure: what email?
[21:08] <mhb> Lure: I've read the blog post, but what e-mail?
[21:09] <Lure> mhb: jono contacted me privatelty before post as I was very vocal on mailing list
[21:09] <mhb> ah.
[21:09] <mhb> right
[21:10] <jpatrick> which ml?
[21:10] <Lure> I just do not get it why we need to open this again
[21:10] <Lure> jpatrick: old LTS discussion on kubuntu-devel
[21:10] <jpatrick> ah
[21:12] <Lure> let's rather talk about MS and Yahoo ;-)
[21:12] <mhb> that's a bit off-topic here, isn't it?
[21:12] <mhb> not anything we can influence
[21:12]  * Lure thinks MS will not be happy as Kubuntu LTS will again take them air time on the media ;-)
[21:13] <Lure> mhb: just joking ;-)
[21:13] <mhb> not really
[21:13] <mhb> Microsoft can buy air time
[21:13] <mhb> they can buy just about anything :o)
[21:13] <Lure> good, so they will need to spend even more - hopefully paying google for it ;-)
[21:14] <Lure> mhb: I think they are behind the point of being able to buy google
[21:15] <mhb> of course, they cannot buy the U.S. either
[21:16] <mhb> I'd still be happy if Kubuntu had 1/1000 the budget they have.
[21:16] <Lure> Riddell: anybody working on 4.0.1 packaing already?
[21:16] <jpatrick> Lure: ana was
[21:16] <mhb> Riddell had some trouble yesterday with it
[21:16] <mhb> ana?
[21:17] <jpatrick> Debian KDE/Qt packager
[21:17] <Lure> mhb: really, I would expect it should be easy upgrade...
[21:18] <jpatrick> http://people.debian.org/~ana/401/
[21:19] <Lure> jpatrick: how does the process look if I would like to get on kubuntu package into debian? are DD cooperative to take such packages?
[21:20] <jpatrick> Lure: one sec (meeting)
[21:20]  * Lure would push qlandkarte to debian...
[21:20] <Lure> jpatrick: no hurry
[21:21] <Riddell> Lure: yes, I am
[21:21] <Riddell> Lure: rpath seems to have stopped working randomly
[21:21] <Lure> Riddell: that is strange... would have expected to be minor upgrade...
[21:30] <jpatrick> Lure: right, I'm free now
[21:31] <Lure> jpatrick: I want qlandkarte to push to debian, what would be the best approach?
[21:31] <jpatrick> Lure: get an account at http://mentors.debian.net/
[21:31] <jpatrick> Lure: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde
[21:32] <jpatrick> Lure: and get ready for weird stuff like relibtoolizing packages :)
[21:32] <Artemis_Fowl> So, KDE 4.0.1 is released in 5 days?
[21:32] <Lure> Artemis_Fowl: yep
[21:32] <Artemis_Fowl> nice
[21:33] <jpatrick> Lure: it's like revu, just upload it and point them to it
[21:34] <Lure> jpatrick: ok, will check this
[21:34] <Lure> jpatrick: thanks
[21:34] <Riddell> davmor2: new CDs up!
[21:34] <jpatrick> Lure: and don't worry, they may be harsh but they're just making you learn the hard way
[21:35] <Lure> jpatrick: ;-)
[21:35] <jpatrick> Lure: on otfc you might want to join #debian-mentors too
[21:35] <Lure> jpatrick: if it will be too hard, I will rather spend time on kde 4 hacking ;-)
[21:36] <jpatrick> Lure: If I can get a package in, you can too!
[21:36] <Lure> jpatrick: will do (even though that I have problems already with current # of channels)
[21:36]  * jpatrick is on 29 channels
[21:36] <jpatrick> and I hear Riddell arrives at 120
[21:38] <Lure> jpatrick: qlandkarte is my first package from scratch
[21:38] <Lure> jpatrick: I got into this packaging stuff by accident ;-)
[21:38] <jpatrick> Lure: was it my fault? ;)
[21:39] <Lure> jpatrick: Riddell did not want to accept my knetconf code patches, but wanted some strange thing called debdiff ;-)
[21:39] <Lure> jpatrick: you just helped me not die in the rpocess ;-)
[21:39] <Lure> process even
[21:39] <jpatrick> smashing
[21:39] <jpatrick> now I help with Debian ;)
[21:40] <Lure> jpatrick: it seems I cannot escape you
[21:40] <jpatrick> Lure: you'll learn fast my older-than-me padawan
[21:43]  * jpatrick off to bed - night!
[21:44] <Lure> jpatrick: good night
[21:46] <jpatrick> Lure: they've discovered us..
[21:46] <Lure> jpatrick: we cannot hide :-)
[21:49] <Lure> jpatrick: I suspect I want to clean us much ubuntu/kubuntu specific outs of package before upload? ("This man page was written for Ubuntu project", patches with kubuntu_ prefix)?
[21:50] <jpatrick> Lure: yeah..
[21:53] <mhb> Riddell: are we going to have the KDE4 Live CDs before Feature Freeze?
[21:55] <ScottK2> jpatrick: The answer was to change require "../src/bdb" to require "bdb46".  Then the examples work.
[21:55] <blueyed> Can I help somewhere out with packaging?
[21:56] <jpatrick> ScottK2: aha, right
[21:58] <Riddell> mhb: I'm told we will
[22:00] <mhb> Riddell: right, thanks
[22:00]  * mhb saves his bandwidth limits for that occasion
[22:01] <Riddell> mhb: changing the seeds is mostly waiting on alpha 4 I think
[22:48] <mamefan> Trying to build kdepim-3.5.7enterprise20080127
[22:48] <mamefan> getting: make[3]: *** No rule to make target `kmail-3.5-filter-icons.pl', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
[22:48] <mamefan> And advice?
[22:48] <mamefan> And=Any
[22:51] <Riddell> mamefan: why are you building it? surely we have builds already
[22:52] <mamefan> Yes, but the the free/busy URI has hardcoded .ifb extension and I need .vfb.
[22:53] <Riddell> shrug, try make -f debian/rules buildprep && debuild
[22:57] <mhb> Riddell: what do you think about "putting" some administration related non-kcontrol icons into systemsettings?
[22:58] <mhb> Riddell: what I mean is - there is not a clear line between configuration tools and administration-related configuration apps
[22:58] <Riddell> mhb: no, wouldn't say there is
[22:58] <Riddell> mhb: what do you have in mind?
[22:59] <mhb> Riddell: for instance "KArm" is a tool which pretty much belongs to an administration toolkit, if it were in Ubuntu it would certainly fit into the "System->Administration" menu
[22:59] <Riddell> mhb: the work timer?
[23:00] <Riddell> I don't see anything administrative about that
[23:00] <mhb> argh
[23:00] <mhb> no, kcron
[23:00] <Riddell> oh right, fair enough for htat
[23:00] <Riddell> that
[23:00] <mhb> I always mix the two
[23:01] <Riddell> although I don't know the value of that to users, it might not be needed at all
[23:01] <mhb> it might make sense to put administration tools like this as links into systemsettings
[23:01] <mhb> Riddell: I'll ask seele about it, but I wanted to know first what you think of it...
[23:02] <mhb> you're the guru figure for me
[23:02] <mhb> thanks for your opinion.
[23:02] <Riddell> oh I'm sure you'd tell me if I was wrong :)
[23:02] <Riddell> I'm unsure about this one http://launchpad.net/bugs/81725
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 81725 in kdegraphics "Moving KPDF menu entry to Office instead of Graphics?" [Low,Confirmed]
[23:03] <mhb> it may be worth it to reopen it upstream
[23:04] <mhb> because "okular" (touted as a Document viewer") is in Graphics, too
[23:04] <mhb> "
[23:04] <Riddell> upstream seem to be as indecisive as me
[23:04] <mhb> hmm
[23:05] <nixternal> go figure :)
[23:05] <mhb> to me, office sounds more logical.
[23:05] <mhb> of course, this is not for me, a programmer with no UI education at all, to decide :o)
[23:06] <nixternal> ditto for office
[23:07] <Riddell> sounds like a decision :)
[23:07] <nixternal> I mean, PDF does stand for Portable DOCUMENT Format, don't see how Document fits into graphics :)
[23:07] <nixternal> man I am so logical after the drugs wear off :)
[23:08] <mhb> nixternal: you feeling better now?
[23:08] <nixternal> a bit better, yes
[23:08] <mhb> that's good to hear
[23:08] <nixternal> I thought D3lphin was now Dolphin in KMenu
[23:10] <Riddell> nixternal: always has been
[23:10] <Riddell> erk!
[23:10] <Riddell> it's not any more
[23:10] <nixternal> ok, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy
[23:16] <mhb> hmm
[23:16] <mhb> I guess I'm lost in the way the KDE4 systemsettings generates the "icons"
[23:17] <mhb> all the official KDE4 systemsettings modules are .desktop files for services
[23:18] <mhb> is it possible to put there a non-service one, launching anything you desire?
[23:18] <Riddell> mhb: i doubt it
[23:18] <Riddell> although worth trying
[23:20] <mamefan> Riddell:  make -f debian/rules buildprep && debuild gives:
[23:20] <mamefan> debian/rules:6: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[23:21] <mamefan> Oops, sorry no cdbs installed.
[23:34] <mhb> kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/PURPOSE is funny
[23:34] <mhb> especially the part "System settings is not system administration"
[23:34]  * mhb wonders which dictator has stated it
[23:56] <nixternal> gotta love when you respond to a bug in lp, the person decides to email you info concerning the bug instead of adding it to the report itself
[23:57] <nixternal> reply("please attach this info to the bug report otherwise it will not get fixed");
[23:59] <wolfger> yeah, I was just looking at some old bugs in which comments on the bug included quotes obviously lifted from an e-mail.