[06:56] <jam> morning all
[07:05] <vila> hey jam
[07:05] <vila> morning all
[07:43] <Riddell> good morning
[07:45] <jelmer> moin
[07:47] <vila> jelmer: Riddell " moin
[08:04] <Riddell> oneiric beta's out, time to upgrade everyone!
[08:25] <poolie> hi Riddell, jelmer, vila
[08:31] <poolie> vila, so there's no pressure for a 2.3.5 or 2.4.1 yet?
[08:31] <vila> worth a check but I think we're fine there
[08:33] <poolie> so 2.2.5 is mostly for the sake of branch-out-of-date warnings?
[08:33] <vila> I should file a bug probably if only to collect feedback about what the upgrade policies are across ... err... whatever combination of python/subunit/testtools we want to support on ... hardy, lucid and up ?
[08:34] <vila> so far yes, there is also #805809 but it's unclear that many people can/will encounter it
[08:34] <jam> vila: if you're just doing "date" on pqm, it tells you the timezone
[08:34] <vila> jam: UTC then
[08:35] <vila> jam: but it makes the file stamp origin even more... surprising
[08:35] <vila> jam: any guess for that ?
[08:36] <jam> vila: I'm not 100% sure what those timestamps are, let me dig a bit
[08:37] <jam> vila: 'the file timestamp', is that mtime or ctime?
[08:37] <jam> (last modification time, creation time)
[08:38] <jam> its pretty clear that your file times don't correlate well with your datestamps
[08:38] <vila> jam: I mean the stamp embedded in the file *name*
[08:39] <jam> vila: I think that might be the time it was submitted, which could certainly vary wildly from when the test starts
[08:39] <vila> jam: so patch.1314909400.log ==> 2011-09-01 22:36:40
[08:39] <vila> jam: you mean received ?
[08:39] <jam> vila: sure
[08:39] <jam> given that 2 of them are about 3 seconds different
[08:39] <jam> 2011-09-01 13:03:31: duration: 2:53:02 start: 2011-09-01 15:18:26, end: 2011-09-01 18:11:28
[08:39] <jam> 2011-09-01 13:03:34: duration: 2:07:47 start: 2011-09-01 18:13:16, end: 2011-09-01 20:21:03
[08:39] <jam> that can certainly be "submit submit"
[08:40] <jam> but it won't be running a test in between there
[08:40] <vila> jam: vary, yes, depending on load, but *after* selftest starts ???!?!?!
[08:40]  * jelmer will bbiab
[08:40] <vila> jam: yeah, I noticed the 3 seconds
[08:40] <jam> vila: not-be-reliable-at-all-because-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-when-the-test-starts
[08:41] <poolie> hi jam?
[08:41] <vila> jam: well, the file *has* to exist before we write into it
[08:41] <jam> hi poolie
[08:41] <poolie> hey, see my pm?
[08:41] <jam> poolie: I did not
[08:41] <jam> ugh, there it is
[08:42] <vila> jam: so it *has* something to do with when the test starts...
[08:43] <jam> vila: given the lack of significant correlation, I would ignore it personally
[08:43] <jam> or read the pqm code to figure out what the number means
[08:57] <poolie> vila, hey, i'm kind of concerned this pqm investigation is ..
[08:57] <poolie> being done in a laborious way, i suppose
[08:57] <poolie> i want the test suite to be fast again
[08:58] <poolie> IS are working on replacing the machine
[08:58] <poolie> separately we could look at tarmac
[08:58] <poolie> hopefully this particular setup has a life expectancy of only days or weeks
[08:59] <poolie> but, do as you think best i suppose
[09:00] <jam> poolie: I have a patch that just removes fsync, and I'm happy enough that it fixes the short term issues
[09:00] <jam> its about 2:1
[09:01] <poolie> wfm
[09:01] <poolie> ok, good night then
[09:01] <vila> poolie: well, I agree with all you've said above, that was my understanding weeks ago when I realize the slowdown (i.e. wait for the new pqm before anything else), as you've seen the patch was minimal and I didn't spend much on it
[09:01] <poolie> ok
[09:03] <vila> jam, poolie, jelmer, Riddell : thanks for not targeting lp:bzr/2.2 with your landings today, other branches are fine, will slow me down a bit, but I can work on other stuff
[09:06] <jam> vila: I shall never submit to your tyranny!
[09:06] <jam> and vila, you're probably not going to get a merge window before tomorrow, unfortunately
[09:07] <jam> I'm counting about 12 hours of PQM before your 2.2 branch
[09:09] <jam> vila: unless you want to prioritize: https://code.launchpad.net/~jameinel/bzr/2.4-disable-selftest-fdatasync-837293/+merge/73757 before the rest :)
[09:10] <vila> jam: hehe
[09:11] <vila> yeah, I went to the pqm web page after saying this and... well, the point is: once 2.2.5 lands, I'll need to pull and submit again to open 2.2.6, so please leave 2.2 alone until you see the opening
[10:19] <danilos> jam: hi, thanks for the review — I think I'll just go with what I have now, just because HTTP headers seem to be set already and I'd have to restructure the code a bit otherwise to be able to raise a HTTPNotFound instead
[10:19] <jam> danilos: I don't think the headers are sent until we actually start sending data
[10:19] <jam> but I could be wrong
[10:19] <danilos> jam: also, LP seems not to have picked up on your "merge:approve": I think you've got to use something like " merge approve\n review approve"
[10:20] <jam> danilos: no, I just need "merge: approve" vs "merge:approve" I was missing a ' '
[10:20] <jam> merge approve auto review approves
[10:20] <danilos> jam: I've actually tried it out and got "AssertionError: Attempt to set headers a second time w/o an exc_info"
[10:20] <danilos> jam: oh, nice, I didn't know that :)
[10:20] <jam> danilos: yeah, saves typing
[10:20] <jam> so sure, go ahead and land it
[10:21] <danilos> jam: thanks, I will
[10:25] <danilos> jam, can you please mark it as approved so it doesn't appear as unapproved on the bug (https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/loggerhead/bug-839395/+merge/73766)
[10:25] <danilos> ubot5, very smart, thank you
[10:25] <danilos> that's what I said!
[10:32] <jam> danilos: its marked Merged now, I don't think you need me to regress it back to Approved :)
[10:40] <danilos> jam: I thought you'd only do a vote, not touch the entire proposal status, but I guess no big deal :)
[12:34] <jelmer> jam: hi, does bug 839515 look familiar to you?
[12:35] <jelmer> I remember there were some stacking bugs that were fixed a while ago that looked similar. Could this be fallout from those bugs?
[12:39] <jam> jelmer: that specifically looks like the bug that made us default to not fetching tags
[12:41] <jam> but it does appear that the *.../ubuntu branch is broken
[12:45] <jelmer> jam: thanks for confirming
[14:55] <AuroraBorealis> so continuing my question that i didn't get answered, what exactly does 'signing' your commits do? since after signing mine, the branch appears unchanged
[14:58] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis, with newer versions of bzr you can see the signatures by running "bzr log" with a particular option
[14:58] <AuroraBorealis> does that include 2.4.0?
[14:59] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis: I'm not sure, it might just be bzr.dev at this point
[14:59] <AuroraBorealis> it seems natty doesn't have 2.4.0 yet o.o
[14:59] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis, though bzr has supported creating signatures since before 2.0 I think
[15:00] <AuroraBorealis> so should i push my local branch over my remote one to get it to have the signatures?
[15:00] <AuroraBorealis> since i did it on my local branch, it says that no changes were made
[15:01] <jelmer_> I'm not sure if we fill in signatures yet, I think we just fetch the signature for a revision when we fetch the revision
[15:03] <AuroraBorealis> and it seems that at least in 2.3.4, the verify signatures option went away
[15:05] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis, there is a verify-signatures command in 2.4 IIUC
[15:05] <AuroraBorealis> hmm
[15:06] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis: the verify signatures option in 2.3.4 had been there for a while but wasn't actually implemented, which was why it was removed
[15:06] <AuroraBorealis> ah.
[15:06] <AuroraBorealis> so the entire signing thing needs some more work to actually be useful :3
[15:07] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis: you can use "bzr verify-signatures" today
[15:07] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis: so it is useful, though there are some more improvements we should make
[15:07] <AuroraBorealis> well i'm on linux and it hasn't upgraded xD
[15:09] <jelmer_> it should be in oneiric
[15:09] <AuroraBorealis> i appear to be in natty
[15:13] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis: you can use the bzr PPA for 2.4.0 (should work on natty), or otherwise be patient for another two months
[15:13] <AuroraBorealis> is the ppa this? https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa
[15:14] <jelmer_> AuroraBorealis, yep
[15:19] <Riddell> should I be worried that the test bzrlib.tests.test_setup.TestSetup.test_build_and_install is failing for me in trunk?
[15:20] <vila> Riddell: locally or only on pqm ?
[15:20] <Riddell> locally
[15:20] <vila> then yes
[15:20] <vila> and I feel your pain :-/
[15:20] <AuroraBorealis> and yay i made bzr crash
[15:20] <Riddell> actually it might be due to my new install
[15:21] <AuroraBorealis> and yeah, verify -signatures don't work :<
[15:24] <AuroraBorealis> i guess i'll file a bug report, after my bagel
[15:26] <Riddell> vila: yes it was just that I didn't have everything installed
[15:27] <vila> Riddell: so it fails on on pqm now ? Missing dependency there ?
[15:27] <vila> s/on on/only on/
[15:27] <Riddell> vila: no it only ever failed locally
[15:27] <vila> ha cool
[15:28] <vila> just out of curiosity what did you fix ?
[15:30] <Riddell> vila: sudo apt-get build-dep bzr
[15:31] <vila> ha, well, yeah ;)
[16:05] <jo-erlend> I've started working with bzr and I'm really loving it. But I'm a newbie t this, and VCS in general, and I'd like to learn how to actually work with it... I mean, I currently have one directory on my computers, called ~/devel/appname and an lp bzr repository that I push to.
[16:06] <AuroraBorealis> and? :3
[16:07] <jo-erlend> and that's good, but I'm only using one branch. I'd now like to start experimenting more widely with my app, so I thought I'd setup different branches to work with, and then merge with a main branch, that in turn is pushed to lp from time to time.  Is it simply a matter of using different directories, or are there other things to consider?
[16:07] <AuroraBorealis> you have your main branch
[16:07] <AuroraBorealis> and then you just branch from that
[16:07] <AuroraBorealis> do stuff with it
[16:07] <AuroraBorealis> and when you want to merge it back, merge the main one with the other one
[16:08] <AuroraBorealis> so yeah pretty much the second branch will be a seperate folder inside the repo folder
[16:09] <jo-erlend> ok, so instead of having my code in ~/devel/appname, I'd have it in ~/devel/appname/trunk, /testing, etc? And the ~/devel/appname directory would only contain branches?
[16:10] <AuroraBorealis> usually appname is the repository
[16:10] <AuroraBorealis> trunk is the 'main deveopment branch'
[16:10] <AuroraBorealis> and then testing can be a seperate branch where you are doing experimental stuff
[16:10] <AuroraBorealis> then you can merge testing back into trunk and whatever
[16:11] <jo-erlend> yes, that's what I meant in my question. What does that look like?
[16:12] <jo-erlend> does it mean I'll have my code in appname and subdirectories of that directory will contain the branches? Or will other branches be in the same parent as the trunk?
[16:15] <AuroraBorealis> appname is the repository, it stores revisions and stuff
[16:15] <AuroraBorealis> and everything below that is a branch
[16:16] <jo-erlend> ok, so it wouldn't make much sense for appname to be versioned?
[16:17] <AuroraBorealis> well i'm just assuming that the folder appname is a repository
[16:17] <jo-erlend> right.
[16:17] <AuroraBorealis> so its not really versioned, it just holds branches
[16:17] <jo-erlend> unless that requires additional setup. It's only a directory here.
[16:17] <AuroraBorealis> you have to run bzr init-repo or create it in bazaar explorer
[16:19] <AuroraBorealis> see: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/shared_repository_layouts.html?highlight=repository
[16:19] <AuroraBorealis> and http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-reference/repositories-help.html?highlight=shared%20repository
[16:19] <jo-erlend> ok, and that is self contained so it doesn't matter if I change the name of the directory later?
[16:20] <AuroraBorealis> the name of the repository or the branch?
[16:20] <AuroraBorealis> i dont think it matters, because the actual information is in the .bzr directory in the repo / branches
[16:21] <AuroraBorealis> but it will changes obviously the URI of the repo =P
[16:21] <jo-erlend> :)
[16:24] <jo-erlend> AuroraBorealis, great links. That's precisely what I was looking for :)
[16:25] <AuroraBorealis> the thing about bazaar is that it supports multiple models
[16:25] <AuroraBorealis> so you can do it like git does, or svn and whatnot
[18:35] <gdoubleu> Using bzr-svn here, and somehow I've got a file that bzr considers versioned but that doesn't exist in the svn repo
[18:35] <gdoubleu> if I try to bzr remove the file, bzr ci, bzr dush, then I get a "SubversionException: ... path not found" error
[18:36] <gdoubleu> any ideas on how this can be corrected?  Can I safely add the file using svn and then bzr pull the change into the bzr repo?
[18:39] <gdoubleu> On a related note, other than diff'ing an export from the bzr repo and svn repo, is there any way to check if there might be other files/contents out of sync between the bzr branch and the svn repo?
[18:51] <jo-erlend> hmm. I had a branch on launchpad that I was working on .I then proposed a merge for upstream, and it was accepted. Now the branch is gone. Is that normal?
[18:52] <jo-erlend> oh, it's just hidden. But is it a bad idea to keep working on that branch after it's been merged with upstream, or will that simply mark it as unmerged?
[19:35] <amaora> test
[20:58] <sixstring> I've got bzr (client) setup just fine on one machine. But when I try to branch on a second machine, I get SSH key madness. Any idea how to make SSH or BZR happy? Do I need to copy my keys from one machine to another?
[21:07] <sixstring> Apparently, you just scp them to the target machine, from ~/.ssh/
[23:22] <jelmer> gdoubleu: what version of bzr-svn are you using?
[23:26] <poolie> hi jelmer
[23:26] <jelmer> poolie: g'day!
[23:26] <vila> hey poolie, jelmer ;)
[23:27] <jelmer> hey vila
[23:28] <jelmer> This is just wrong. when I get home on a Friday evening it ought to be quiet on IRC...
[23:28] <fullermd> Maybe your calendar crashed.
[23:28] <vila> ok, I'll mute myself ;)
[23:28] <poolie> it's saturday morning, i'm at google working on the lca programme
[23:28] <jelmer> poolie: I guess you're excused then; vila however... :-P
[23:28] <vila> Oh, you went there too ?
[23:29] <vila> jelmer: Me ? Can't have fun with the importer anymore ?
[23:30] <jelmer> vila: :)
[23:30] <vila> We need to record imports success instead of import failures: http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.from%282011-08-29%29
[23:31] <vila> This curve going down is not getting us enough positive feedback :-p


[01:57] <jphilips> bluesabre: completed tagging and cleanup of catfish issues
[12:29] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-taskmanager 1.5.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-taskmanager-1-5-0-released-tp59857.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)


[01:39] <dcosta> http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-30816400/stock-vector-cargo-ship-vector.html
[01:39] <dcosta> ops


[00:11] <ari-tczew> Riddel: ping
[00:26] <maco2> ari-tczew: you might want to leave a message for him, because he's out all weekend racing his kayak
[00:28] <ari-tczew> maco2: thanks! so I'll not get his time because this is nothing important. ;-)
[00:29] <maco2> well its just that he's offline
[00:29] <maco2> so contentless ping isnt gonna be much help later i dont think
[00:29] <neversfelde> ah maco2
[00:29] <ari-tczew> right
[00:30] <neversfelde> I need a MOTU :)
[00:30] <neversfelde> if you have time, would you review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kfritz
[00:32]  * maco2 looks
[00:35] <maco2> neversfelde: can i be picky about lack of commas in debian/control?
[00:35] <maco2> or ooooh maybe im reading it wrong and teh lack of commas is right
[00:36] <maco2> "new incoming or outgoing calls" is that "new incoming" or are "new" and "incoming" separate?
[00:39]  * maco2 plays with uscan
[00:40] <ScottK> maco2: Yes.  Please, be picky.
[00:40] <maco2> ScottK: i was reading wrong
[00:41] <maco2> ScottK: it occurred to me that "new, incoming, and outgoing" didnt make sense as a new call HAD to be either incoming or outgoing :P
[00:41] <maco2> so "new incoming and outgoing" (as neversfelde has) is just fine
[00:41]  * ScottK nods
[00:42]  * maco2 growls at REVU
[00:42] <maco2> it 403 forbiden'd me when i tried to wget the .changes
[00:42]  * Tm_T huggles maco2
[00:44] <maco2> dangit. i cant debuild this on karmic because my debhelper's not new enough
[00:44]  * maco2 shakes fist
[00:45] <maco2> i dont see any reason why lucid's debhelper should make my machine explode... *tries to get it from packages.ubuntu.com*
[00:45] <ScottK> maco2: That's a security feature.  Log into your pbuilder, build the source there and then copy it out of the chroot
[00:45] <maco2> "feature"?
[00:46] <maco2> hrmph.
[00:46] <crimsun> why are you wgetting the changes? does dget on the dsc suffice?
[00:46] <ScottK> If .changes were available, anyone's who had upload priviledges could be grabbed and the package uploaded to Ubuntu.
[00:47] <maco2> ScottK: ah i thought you were saying the lack of debhelper on my system capable of building this was a feature
[00:47] <ScottK> No.
[00:48] <ScottK> Althought it's a pretty funny idea now that you mention it.
[00:49] <maco2> ok pbuilder is updating and then umm i didnt write down how crimsun told me to do the manual building inside pbuilder thing so im gonna need help. i think "clean" was the first thing...
[00:49] <crimsun> when you login, it tells you the absolute path on the host
[00:50] <crimsun> cp the source package there
[00:50] <crimsun> then install build-deps as necessary and clean+binary
[00:51] <crimsun> (there are easier ways)
[01:03] <maco2> O_O
[01:03] <maco2> aptitude crashed while installing build-deps
[01:04] <maco2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/385417/
[01:05] <maco2> crimsun, ScottK ^ ummm help?
[01:07] <maco2> hmm nevermind. apt/dpkg seem to be perfectly happy
[01:08] <maco2> crimsun: how do you do the clean+binary? cd into the package then debian/rules clean && debian/rules binary ?
[02:03] <maco2> neversfelde: umm... FFe??
[02:56] <maco2> neversfelde: do you have a FFe for that package?  like, can i upload it without getting in trouble?
[03:04] <maco2> neversfelde: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess says you need a motu-release person to say "ok" before i upload that
[08:33] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: pong
[11:08] <Mamarok> hm, does Kubuntu patch Qt/make modifications to Qt? Apparently some Scribus people claim that...
[11:14] <Tm_T> Mamarok: other than what is in kde-qt ?
[11:27] <Mamarok> hm, does Kubuntu patch Qt/make modifications to Qt? Apparently some Scribus people claim that...well, there's a guy complaining that Scribus just doesn't work well in Ubuntu while it does in Debian
[11:27] <Mamarok> and that the Scribus devs complaiend about that, too
[11:27] <Mamarok> complained*
[11:28] <Mamarok> and since Scribus uses Qt, not KDE, that would only be true if we modify Qt, or am I mistaken?
[12:01] <ejat> Mamarok: what does that guy mean doesnt work well ? mine working well ..
[12:02] <Mamarok> ejat: well, I am asking him to provide sources right now :)
[12:02] <ejat> Mamarok: yeah .. u rite ..
[12:03] <ejat> cant blame without any proof or sources ..
[12:58] <apachelogger> Mamarok: the scrubs people always had that claim
[12:58] <apachelogger> all the proof I ever saw was one rather bogus bug report
[12:59] <apachelogger> hm, scribus to scrubs is also quite a jump
[13:06] <apachelogger> Mamarok: we have a patch that fixes a bug where fglrx reports a 0 size screen
[13:06] <apachelogger> Mamarok: we have a patch that prevents flickering when a window gets redrawn
[13:06] <apachelogger> we do not build with firebird/ibase support
[13:07] <apachelogger> we install a qtrc that sets the default style to plastique
[13:07] <apachelogger> and that is everything that is different from debian
[13:08] <Mamarok> apachelogger: thanks :)
[13:09] <Mamarok> I asked him for sources about that claim anyway, so we will see
[13:10] <apachelogger> Mamarok: FTR, scribus package is also exactly the same except for one patch that opens http help urls with a web browser
[13:11] <Mamarok> which can't cause a crash I assume
[13:11] <apachelogger> just looked at the code, not very likely ;)
[13:12] <Mamarok> OK, thanks, we will see what he answers
[13:12] <apachelogger> Mamarok: where did he complain?
[13:13] <Mamarok> in the ubuntu-ch@ mailing list
[13:13] <Mamarok> but I know the chap, he is fast to complain with mostly bogus sources
[13:13] <apachelogger> mhh, love htat kind
[13:13] <Mamarok> yeah, me too :)
[13:14] <Mamarok> the worst is that he thinks he is an expert... which can be torn to pieces in just one or two seconds
[14:36] <neversfelde> maco2: thanks for reviewing and sorry my network connection was down. I will file the ffe today.
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> hrm, I can't seem to dput to ninjas...
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> "Connection failed, aborting. Check your network [Errno 111] Connection refused"
[14:42] <JontheEchidna> but as you can see by your reading of my message, I do, in fact, have a working internet connection
[15:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I suppose there is some kind of debug mode for dput?
[15:28]  * apachelogger is going back to graz today \\o/
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: dunno
[15:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: --help :P
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> I can upload to the ubuntu archive, just not any ppas
[15:29] <apachelogger> maybe that part of lp is in maintenance
[15:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I'd go check with people in #launchpad
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> huh, works now
[15:29] <apachelogger> ah
[15:29] <apachelogger> PEBKAC :P
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> hmm, I just saw this in debian/rules for kde-l10n-es:
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> #take translations from stable branch to match our KDE 4.3 version
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> SVNREV={2009-11-01}
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> and that var is used in the fetching of desktop translations later on
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> bad thing, right?
[15:31] <apachelogger> -.-
[15:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: should be bumped
[15:31] <apachelogger> I suppose
[15:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: coincidentally, could you sponsor kde-l10n-si from https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+archive/ppa ?
[15:35] <JontheEchidna> it's not been updated since 4.2.98 -.-
[15:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: if you could take a look at bug 528322, that'd be great. (These removals should be non-controvesial)
[15:36] <JontheEchidna> oops
[15:36] <JontheEchidna> bug 529488
[15:37] <JontheEchidna> Here's a list of "no longer distributed upstream" packages that are uselessly sitting around in the archive and failing to pass rebuild tests: http://pastebin.com/h7LVdmzn
[15:37] <JontheEchidna> Should be ok to remove those too since they've in theory already been rosetta imported
[15:46]  * apachelogger needs to revive batl10n
[15:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: did you ensure it is in 100% sync with the other kde-l10n packages?
[15:47] <apachelogger> differences would make batch processing difficult
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> I did bump the standards version, before noticing that everything else is at 3.8.0 :S
[15:48] <apachelogger> omg!
[15:48] <apachelogger> how could you
[15:48] <apachelogger> :(
[15:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: rules is also not in sync
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: the get-desktop part?
[15:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also using source format 3.0
[15:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: just diff your packaging with kde-l10n-fr
[15:51] <apachelogger> or de or something
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> hrm, kde-l10n-es doesn't seem to be using source format 3.0
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> they're all out of sync :(
[15:51] <apachelogger> cool
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> -de isn't using source format 3.0 neither
[15:51]  * apachelogger also notes that kde-l10n-de for some reason includes a patch
[15:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: changelog says so
[15:51] <apachelogger> +  * Use source format 3.0 to preserve upstream .bz2
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> changelog lies
[15:52] <ryanakca> ... do we really need x11-apps on the CD? kubuntu-desktop depends on xorg which depends on x11-apps
[15:52] <apachelogger> xorg probably depends on them for a reason
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> jonathan@jonathan-laptop:~/ubuntu/kde-l10n/kde-l10n-de/kde-l10n-de-4.4.0$ ls debian/source/format
[15:52] <apachelogger> of much greater concern is if we need gst :P
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> ls: cannot access debian/source/format: No such file or directory
[15:53] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, it got a patch from debian which is even weirderior
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: when you convert to source format 3.0, all packaging changes get changed to a quilt patch
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> *all source changes get changed to a quilt patch
[15:53] <apachelogger> not mentioned in the changelog at all from what I see
[15:54] <apachelogger> oh
[15:54] <apachelogger> that is a) cool b) weird in that particular case
[15:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you want to look into syncing the packages?
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> all of them? :(
[15:54] <apachelogger> otherwise I'll do that when I am home
[15:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: of course :P
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> maybe if I was paid to do so... :P
[15:55] <apachelogger> well
[15:55] <apachelogger> hack batl10n :P
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> I'm a ruby nooby
[15:55] <apachelogger> right, you only speak cpp and foobar
[15:55] <apachelogger> err python
[15:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in that case I shall look at it when I am home or something
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> thx
[15:56] <coucouf> hi there, couldn't find upgrade instructions to Lucid on kubuntu.org
[15:56] <ryanakca> apachelogger: but they're so useless in a KDE environment, see the list in the long description... xlogo, xclock, xcalc, xeyes, xbiff, the list goes on.
[15:56]  * ryanakca goes to find out why Xorg needs them
[15:56] <apachelogger> ryanakca: #ubuntu-x
[15:56] <coucouf> I ended up using update-notifier-kde -u -d but not being sure it was the-right-way™
[15:57] <ryanakca> apachelogger: Already there :)
[15:57] <apachelogger> if they are not needed by the content of xorg package, then they shouldnt be deps to begin with
[15:57] <apachelogger> that is a policy violation :P
[15:57] <coucouf> maybe the official upgrade method could be advertised a bit more ?
[15:57]  * apachelogger is getting all bitchy if peopel violate the policy
[15:57] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: the xorg package is a metapackage, which means maybe something down the line is fscked
[15:57] <apachelogger> coucouf: so that more people can break their system? :P
[15:58] <coucouf> it's written everywhere « don't test this » already :)
[15:58] <apachelogger> coucouf: it's difficult to not "over document" such things, as upgrading to a dev release is about the most dangeroust things to do
[15:59] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna, ryanakca: checking germinate
[15:59] <coucouf> ok, I see the point. and I found my answer in the end so all is good I guess
[16:00] <apachelogger> coucouf: well, IMHO we need to document upgrade testing, but for that we need a clear path, because update-notifier-kde does not even exist in lucid+
[16:00] <coucouf> what suprises me is that the Ubuntu upgrade method update-manager -d is documented in many places
[16:01] <coucouf> apachelogger: Is there a replacement intended ? or just using update-manager-core the server way ?
[16:01] <apachelogger> !info xorg
[16:02] <apachelogger> coucouf: do-release-upgrade I think
[16:02] <apachelogger> regular upgrades are handled via packagekit
[16:03] <apachelogger> which will then call do-release-upgrade, so I suppose the proceeding for upgrades in lucid+ to a dev release is do-release-upgrade -d
[16:03] <apachelogger> ryanakca: aye
[16:03] <apachelogger> ryanakca: so
[16:03] <apachelogger> ryanakca: as JontheEchidna stated, xorg is a metapackage hence it must indeed depend on x11-tools
[16:04] <apachelogger> ryanakca: what needs to happen is that the desktop-common seed must be changed to not depend on xorg but the individual packages that are necessary
[16:04] <apachelogger> which might be difficult to get through because as it seems that would cause quite the mainteinance overhead
[16:04] <ryanakca> apachelogger: OK. So how do I do that?
[16:04] <ryanakca> Ah
[16:04] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I suggest you bring the topic up on ubuntu-devel ml and let them work out some solution ;)
[16:05]  * apachelogger must do packing
[16:05] <apachelogger> oh my
[16:05] <ryanakca> apachelogger: How big is the *buntu userbase? Would the bandwidth used to download that measly package, simply because it's installed by default, be of concern to anybody?
[16:06] <ryanakca> Assuming it's 4 million users, each one of them downloads it once, 312GB of bandwidth used that doesn't need to be :)
[16:09] <seaLne> on kubuntu.org is the kubuntu logo over the menu bar for anyone else in konq 4.4.0?
[16:10] <seaLne> seems to be font size issue
[16:16] <ryanakca> seaLne: Fine here, feel free to file a bug against the kubuntu-website project and attach a screenshot though
[16:16] <shtylman> I can't install kdevelop
[16:16] <shtylman> ;(
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: If you want a stable IDE, don't use kdevelop ;P
[16:21] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: it was removed from the archive since they won't have a stable release before lucid
[16:25] <ScottK> maco: You have a wacom tablet, right?
[16:25] <ScottK> Is it working in 10.04?
[16:35] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: ;( but its an amazing ide ...
[16:35] <shtylman> tear
[16:35] <shtylman> ive been using it for a while
[16:36] <shtylman> I guess I have to package it myself now...
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: oh, riddell did throw packages at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/beta?field.series_filter=lucid
[16:37] <shtylman> oooo
[17:02] <DarkwingDuck> Wow, I'm missing something that I'm sure is painfully obvious....
[17:03] <DarkwingDuck> I am not finding the tablet control on lspci or lsusb....
[17:03] <DarkwingDuck> where else would I look to find it?
[17:04] <shadeslayer> wth!
[17:04] <shadeslayer> how is that i changed the topic?
[17:09] <Tm_T> nownow
[17:10] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: :P
[17:10] <Tm_T> it's meant to be open, btw
[17:11] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: changing the topic?
[17:11] <Tm_T> so nothing to be "fixed" in it (:
[17:11] <Tm_T> yes
[17:11] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: i dont know.. i think only chan ops should have that privilige
[17:11] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: it depends on channel mode(s)
[17:13] <seaLne> ryanakca: looks like its not just me https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/+bug/379213 seems the same issue with the website
[17:15] <shadeslayer> seaLne: confirmed here too!
[17:16] <Tm_T> in where exactly?
[17:17] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: open kubuntu.org with konqueror
[17:17] <Tm_T> and?
[17:18] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: and then check top left corner
[17:18] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: http://imagebin.ca/view/eWEKrJ.html
[17:19] <shadeslayer> u overlaps Home
[17:19] <Tm_T> I have cap almost as wide as the logo pic
[17:19] <Tm_T> but I have way smaller font size too
[17:19] <shadeslayer> Hmmmm im on default everything ;)
[17:20] <seaLne> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39885472/kubuntuheader.png
[17:21] <Tm_T> I'm in, err, default nothing?
[17:21] <jussi01> that looks fun
[17:21] <seaLne> its even worse for me
[17:21] <shadeslayer> hehe... well its not _that_ bad here :P
[17:21] <jussi01> mine is fine
[17:21] <shadeslayer> jussi01: in konqueror?
[17:21] <jussi01> what resolution screens do you all have?
[17:21] <jussi01> shadeslayer: yes
[17:21] <seaLne> 1366
[17:21] <shadeslayer> jussi01: 1440X900
[17:21] <jussi01> 1920...
[17:22] <Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/konq_4.png
[17:22] <Tm_T> notice the funkyness in overall, it doesn't have those round corners
[17:22] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: you seriously need a better plasma theme ;)
[17:23] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: why?
[17:23] <shadeslayer> black is out of fashion :P
[17:23] <seaLne> ryanakca: so looks like kubuntu.org requires a really big monitor to view ...
[17:23] <shadeslayer> :D
[17:23] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: I don't have black other than in centerpiece of analog clock
[17:24] <Tm_T> seaLne: erm, small font, that's all
[17:24] <shadeslayer> ohh....
[17:24] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: what about the colors?
[17:24] <Tm_T> what colors?
[17:24] <seaLne> system load?
[17:24] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: the color of the windows
[17:25]  * shadeslayer starts Heroes Season 1
[17:25] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: it's not black
[17:25] <seaLne> Tm_T: can you shrink your konq window to see if it overlaps?
[17:25] <Tm_T> seaLne: looks good here when browser is less than 800 px wide, so definately font size issue
[17:26] <shadeslayer> really?
[17:26] <seaLne> weird
[17:26] <seaLne> dpi?
[17:26] <Tm_T> the normal ~100
[17:26] <Tm_T> but I have font sizes 6-8
[17:26] <jussi01> ahh, when you shrink the window...
[17:26] <jussi01> yes, happens here also
[17:27] <Tm_T> ~770 px wide browser is narrowest having bit of gap too
[17:28] <Tm_T> sooo, it needs some love to make sure no matter what, there's no overlapping
[17:29] <jussi01> http://imagebin.ca/view/mY3XbJ6k.html
[17:30] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: and yeah, #363535 is not black (:
[17:31] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Our experience in this channel is that topic changes are rarely abused and so locking down the topic would just make more work for people.
[17:31] <Tm_T> yup
[17:32] <Tm_T> it's easier to deal with very rare abusers than hunting down ops when topic needs updating
[17:35] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: :P
[17:36] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ok well i didnt know that the topic could be changed and i wanted to find out the topic for #ubuntu-arm,so i accidently changed the topic ;)
[17:36] <shadeslayer> Also as you said,no one abuses the topic,i didnt know that too :P
[17:38] <DarkwingDuck> maco2: ping
[17:39] <DarkwingDuck> Hey jjesse
[17:40]  * PascalFr_parti est parti: Parti pour l'instant.
[17:40] <Tm_T> !away > PascalFr_parti
[17:43] <ryanakca> Tm_T: Do you have JS disabled in konqueror?
[17:44] <Tm_T> ryanakca: no I do not
[17:44] <Tm_T> it works with webkit, dunno what's wrong with khtml today
[17:44] <Tm_T> joys of trunk (;
[17:45] <Tm_T> ryanakca: CSS-based rounded borders isn't an option?
[18:07] <jjesse> hey DarkwingDuck
[18:08] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: hows life? I'm actually back then moving then I'll be in for the long haul lol
[18:13] <DarkwingDuck> arg this is giving a headache.
[18:15] <jjesse> DarkwingDuck: good way busy
[18:20] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah... what wacom tablet for my tabletPC isn't wanting to work in 10.04A but, it works out of the box in 9.10
[19:03] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.pim/26995
[19:04] <Lex79> do you know if we have problems to build kmymoney?
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> KMyMoney stopped using libkleo the next prerelease
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> (it only affects kde4 kmymoney)
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> We're fine, aside from kopete-crypto
[19:05] <Lex79> ok
[19:16] <Quintasan> Lex79: urgh, sorry for throwing stuff at you, do you mind doing kdebase? Seems I've broken my system badly and damn thing won't build and I have to got to bed already :(
[19:17] <Lex79> no problem Quintasan, I'm really busy with kdepim and kopete-crypto for now, but me or JontheEchidna can do later
[19:18] <Quintasan> Lex79: thanks, I hope I will get it fixed tomorrow
[19:18] <Quintasan> Good night anyways
[19:18] <Lex79> Quintasan: good night :)
[19:19] <maco2> ScottK: i have one, but i'm still on 9.10 and shtylman_ warned me that my preferred window manager is currently not installable on 10.04
[19:33] <DarkwingDuck> maco2: Your a wacom user right?
[19:35] <maco2> DarkwingDuck: yes, but not using lucid yet
[19:56] <Lex79> omg, kdepim-dev and kopete-crypto fixed \o/
[19:57] <Tm_T> waaiiiiiii!
[19:57]  * Tm_T hides
[20:01] <ejat> Lex79: kudos ..
[20:01] <Lex79> :)
[20:06] <DarkwingDuck> maco2 okay, I'm upgrading my tabletPC to Lucid and it uses Wacom. I'll let you know about getting it to work when I get there.
[20:40] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[20:40] <_Groo_> can anyone tell me if sun-java6 was pulled out of lucid?
[20:49] <Lex79> Riddell: mono needs a kick out from NEW to building kdebindings https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/2.4.4~svn151842-1ubuntu2
[20:50] <Tm_T> Lex79: you might like to poke someone else, as he's been AFK
[20:52] <Lex79> I already say in #ubuntu-devel, but there are no archive admin around
[21:15] <nixternal> is anyone available on Friday, March 5th, from 17:00 to 18:00 UTC to give a talk for Opportunistic Developer Week on "Creating a PyKDE app"? I am scheduled to do it, but my aunt passed away the other day and I will not be able to do it?
[21:16]  * Tm_T hugs nixternal
[21:16]  * seele doesn't know what opportunistic developer even means
[21:16] <nixternal> thanks
[21:16] <seele> nixternal: sorry to hear that
[21:18] <nixternal> thanks
[21:37] <crimsun> _Groo_: yes, it was.
[21:38]  * apachelogger hugs nixternal
[21:39] <_Groo_> i just found out of a workaround to allow icedtea to work with chromium
[21:39]  * neversfelde too
[21:39] <apachelogger> more interesting would be icedtea in konqueror -.-
[21:40] <_Groo_> apachelogger: might work too
[21:40] <_Groo_> apachelogger: altought konqueror calls java directly , he doesnt uses the NSPLUGIN
[21:40] <apachelogger> doubtable, my most recent theory was that there is a problem with javascript, disallowing the liveconnect stuff to work properly
[21:40] <apachelogger> _Groo_: must use the plugin for liveconnect magic IIRC
[21:41] <_Groo_> apachelogger: agreed, it implemented in icedtea 1.7
[21:41] <apachelogger> more interesting question, will the intel driver ever support acceleration with dual head
[21:46] <_Groo_> apachelogger: well this way at least its working for chromium , can even run applet demos lol...
[21:46] <_Groo_> not that i bumped into one in ages
[21:46] <apachelogger> well
[21:47] <apachelogger> http://people.canonical.com/~doko/java/ColorBlockApplet.html
[21:48] <apachelogger> meh, no jonny when you need him -.-
[21:49] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yes it works, i can paint the box inside chromium :)
[21:49] <_Groo_> IcedTea NPR Web Browser Plugin (using IcedTea6 1.8pre (6b18~pre1-1ubuntu1))
[21:50] <_Groo_> apachelogger: but only if i use my method, which is pretty simple
[21:51] <apachelogger> simple is boring
[21:51]  * apachelogger starts kontact and syncs 5 imap accounts and like 30 news groups ^^
[21:52] <_Groo_> apachelogger: java is working just fine inside konqueror too with openjdk
[21:52] <apachelogger> _Groo_: that example too?
[21:53] <_Groo_> apachelogger: let me check
[21:54] <_Groo_> apachelogger: no, not the example :D funny thing it works in chromium, go figure
[21:54]  * _Groo_ is testing firefox 3.6 now
[21:54] <apachelogger> well, I think it is because of the javascript
[21:55] <apachelogger> I think I was trying to debug the problem but ran into problems with the javascript interpreter
[21:55] <_Groo_> javascript aka ecma script /= java...
[21:55] <_Groo_> if the only code in the above url is javascript it has nothing to do with what im testing
[21:55] <_Groo_> or trying to test :P
[21:55] <apachelogger> _Groo_: liveconnect uses javascript
[21:55] <apachelogger> or at least that is how it was explained to me :P
[21:56] <apachelogger> maybe someone was lying to me
[21:56] <_Groo_> apachelogger: works fine with firefox 3.6 too
[21:56] <_Groo_> apachelogger: let me try to FORCE my "solution" to konqueror.. see what comes out
[22:01] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ok, its working just fine now
[22:01] <_Groo_> with konqueror and the aforemetinoed url
[22:02] <_Groo_> apachelogger: killall -9 konqueror, go to settings, enable both kio AND security... be happy
[22:02] <_Groo_> apachelogger: for some stupid reason, kio is disabled by default in kubuntu, and you need it in order to enforce th security model
[22:02] <_Groo_> apachelogger: so now i have java in all 3 main browser, nice :)
[22:02] <apachelogger> _Groo_: I seem to remember that there is a reason for not using KIO
[22:03] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yeah, the reason is that you dont use java lol
[22:03] <apachelogger> nono, I actually made it work in konqueror to begin with :P
[22:03] <apachelogger> _Groo_: do we enforce that KIO-off or does it come from upstream?
[22:04] <_Groo_> apachelogger: prob upstream
[22:05] <_Groo_> apachelogger: if im not mistaken, is one of those forgotten settings.. kio was off in kde 3, because the security model was kinda broken iwht kio 3 , BUT 4 was rewritten
[22:05] <_Groo_> apachelogger: ence safe again to be used, but aparently no one ever remembered to change the jio back to on...
[22:05] <_Groo_> kio
[22:05] <apachelogger> _Groo_: go poke upstream then
[22:06] <apachelogger> I am not going to rip a securiyt breach into konqueror just so that the ubuntu and kde security teams can beat me up :P
[22:07] <apachelogger> oh lol
[22:07] <_Groo_> apachelogger: you just remembered me of that little furry big eyes little fella from madagascar
[22:07] <apachelogger> _Groo_: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/290707/comments/2
[22:07] <neversfelde> there is probably a problem with a not starting kontact because of akonadi for our karmic packages, does someone know more about it?
[22:07] <apachelogger> neversfelde: mysql is crap, akonadi uses mysql, akonadi inherits crappyness :P
[22:10] <neversfelde> :)
[22:11] <_Groo_> apachelogger: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kdebase/+bug/290707/comments/5
[22:12] <_Groo_> also, in order for chromium to work with icedtea 1.6, just trick icedtead into thinking its being loaded from firefox
[22:12] <apachelogger> _Groo_: redundancy is the key to world domination ^^
[22:12] <_Groo_> just do LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/xulrunner-<IP_ADDRESS>/ /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser --enable-plugins
[22:13] <_Groo_> and then just add the path to the chromium-browser script in /usr/bin..
[22:13] <_Groo_> works like a charm :)
[22:15] <apachelogger> fancy
[23:23] <Lex79> uhmm ktorrent ftbs http://pastebin.ca/1816186
[23:25] <_Groo_> Lex79: just change this
[23:26] <_Groo_> Lex79: let me see the ktorrent patch, just a sec
[23:26] <_Groo_> plugins/mediaplayer/videowidget.h
[23:27] <_Groo_> change #include <Phonon/VideoWidget> to #include <phonon/videowidget.h>
[23:27] <_Groo_> Lex79: should compile and work afterwards
[23:29] <Lex79> thanks, I will try


[17:49] <dsmythies> Does anybody here have sufficient rights to change a bug report from private to public? I want bug 478097 changed back to public. It must have been in error that it was made private.
[17:52] <pleia2> dsmythies: what project?
[17:53] <pleia2> searched email... looks like it's ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-website, I can't see the bug now so it may have been someone on the ubuntu-website team who marked it as such
[17:53] <pleia2> maybe ask in #ubuntu-website ?
[17:54] <dsmythies> pleia2: It was agianst the doc package, I think. Here is a quote line (which is incorrect also): ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
[17:54] <pleia2> (bugs against ubuntu-website are automatically private, so I could see how this could easily happen)
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> dsmythies, if you're a member of Obuntu Bug Control you ought to be able to see/change it
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> Ubuntu too
[17:55] <pleia2> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
[17:55] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/478097/+subscriptions
[17:55] <ubot2> pleia2: Error: malone bug 478097 not found
[17:55] <dsmythies> It was marked and "invalid" against #ubuntu-website
[17:56] <pleia2> someone in #ubuntu-bugs then perhaps
[17:58] <dsmythies> slickymasterWork: I am a member of "Ubuntu Bug Control" but can not see the bug anymore.
[17:59] <dsmythies> pleia2: I will try #ubuntu-bugs. Thanks.
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> yeah, I can't either


[00:12] <Your_Dog> whats the spec of the other machine?
[00:15] <daftykins> they are both written up above
[00:17] <Your_Dog> i only see the thinkpad one
[00:17] <Your_Dog> ah ok the other is dell inspiron smh
[00:23] <Your_Dog> Metamoporphosis: I would suggest the Thinkpad as it may have a smaller SSD but the thing here is that it has a better iGPU. UHD is very weak compare to Iris Xe afterall
[00:24] <Your_Dog> Both machine have upgradeable RAM and SSD so RAM and SSD are out of the question
[00:26] <daftykins> always go for newer silicon in my book
[00:27] <daftykins> i just got a T14 gen 2 with 11th gen i5, 32 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD for £380 on ebay
[02:14] <lotuspsychje> good morning