[10:47] <ogra> lamont, sigh ... arcorn is dead once again
[10:48] <ogra> i dont get why it suddenly fails so often
[11:27] <lamont> ogra: ditto for hawthorn, it appears
[11:27] <lamont> interestingly, it seems to be the same machines each time.
[11:28] <ogra> yes
[11:28] <lamont> one could almost suspect that it's not exactly workload related
[11:28] <ogra> and i have a feeling that its either related to dove builds or to kubuntu ... it seems to have started when NCommander enabled either
[11:28] <ogra> and they were enabled around the same time
[11:29] <ogra> sycamore is rather rarely affected and doesnt build dove or kubuntu images atm
[11:29] <persia> Do we know when it crashes, or what it was doing when it crashed?
[11:29]  * ogra doesnt, i dont get a long and usually only notice it once the machine is gone
[11:30] <ogra> s/long/log/
[11:32]  * NCommander runs
[11:32] <NCommander> Its not my fault it broke! :-P
[11:34] <lamont> ogra: acorn is up...
[11:34] <ogra> thanks
[11:34] <lamont> heh.  up 33 minutes
[11:34] <ogra> oh
[11:34] <lamont> I suspect someone cycled it
[11:35] <ogra> i tried a build about 1h ago :)
[11:38] <lamont> persia: sadly, it is opaque in that regard
[11:39] <lamont> we know that it does not spew upon the serial console during its death throws
[11:39] <NCommander> lamont: you have console debug messages on?
[11:39] <lamont> NCommander: and I stuff what where to get that?
[11:40] <NCommander> lamont: huh?
[11:41] <persia> syslog config, I'd think.
[11:41]  * NCommander kicks stuff
 lamont: you have console debug messages on? <-- how turn on console debug messages?  IO
[11:44] <lamont> I'm betting either printk foolery in sysctl.conf
[11:45] <NCommander> lamont: remove quiet from the command line and add verbose ;-)
[11:45] <persia> Oh, heh.
[11:54] <lamont> heh. ok
[11:54] <lamont> NCommander: and then reboot, I bet. :-p
[11:55] <lamont> I'll do that later today
[11:55] <NCommander> lamont: acord is omap4, right?
[11:55] <lamont> they're all bbg3
[11:55] <lamont> we have nothing else online
[11:57] <NCommander> lamont: ah, acorn realized it was building the competition and committed suidice!
[11:57] <ogra> NCommander, acorn is omap3 and dove
[11:57] <ogra> sycamore is omap4
[11:57] <ogra> (target wise)
[11:58] <ogra> *and* we dont build kubuntu for omap4 yet
[11:58] <ogra> so acron is omap3/dove for ubuntu-netbook and kubuntu currently
[11:58] <ogra> dove and kubuntu were both enabled at a similar time
[12:00]  * ScottK would say that at work Kubuntu or Dove exposed an existing problem.  I don't they either actually "caused" a problem.
[12:00] <ogra> yeah, i didnt say they case one :)
[12:00] <ogra> *cause
[12:01] <ogra> we just dont see it on sycamore which onyl builds ubuntu-netbook-omap4 currently, it might as well be just a load issue or something
[12:02] <lamont> except that they all serialize, so you're only ever building one
[12:02] <lamont> I suppose you could trade roles and see if sycamore starts faceplanting
[12:03] <ogra> i could do that but we have an agreement to keep one buildd exclusively for omap4
[12:04] <ogra> though i dont really expect it to be caused by dove ubuntu builds they are 98% identical to omap3 or 4 (just different kernel packages being unpacked)
[12:05] <ogra> that shouldnt cause more load or anything, whereas kubuntu builds install a completely different set of packages
[12:07] <ogra> it would be good to know the exact time it dies
[12:07] <ogra> then we could easily verify against the crontab
[12:11] <lamont> 1 hr 9 min 20 seconds ago
[12:11] <lamont> or as much as 5 min before that..
[12:19] <ogra> very very weird
[12:20] <ogra> it should have been idlin at that time
[12:20] <ogra> *idling
[12:20] <ogra> 55 1 * * *      ARCHES='armel+omap armel+omap4' OPTIONS="-f ext3" buildlive ubuntu-netbook && ARCHES='armel+omap armel+omap4' for-project ubuntu-netbook cron.ports_daily-preinstalled
[12:20] <ogra> 13 3 * * *      ARCHES='armel+omap armel+omap4' OPTIONS="-f ext3" buildlive kubuntu && ARCHES='armel+omap armel+omap4' for-project kubuntu cron.ports_daily-preinstalled
[12:21] <ogra> oh, my copy was outdated
[12:21] <ogra> there is 45 6 * * *      ARCHES='armel+omap armel+omap4' OPTIONS="-f ext3" buildlive kubuntu-mobile && ARCHES='armel+omap armel+omap4' for-project kubuntu-mobile cron.ports_daily-preinstalled
[12:22] <ogra> NCommander, why the heck are we building all these omap4 targets ?
[12:22] <ogra> (i'm pretty sure i asked you not to)
[12:24] <ogra> bah
[12:24] <ogra> the crontab in the branch *totally* differs from the actual one
[12:24]  * ogra sighs deeply
[12:25] <ogra> so kubuntu-mobile is actually the last thing we build, starting at 6:45
[12:26] <ogra> and according to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-mobile/ports/daily-preinstalled/20100908/ they finished today at ~8:00
[12:26] <ogra> so it was actually idle when it died
[12:31] <ogra> lamont, are both systems identical software wise (same cron-daily entries etc) ?
[12:31] <ogra> i wonder if its a system cronjob that makes it die
[12:36] <lamont> as far as I know, yes
[12:44] <lamont> sigh. brainfart.  that was when the machine was rebooted.
[12:44] <lamont> I'll be able to give you a time the next time it dies...
[12:44] <NCommander> ogra: ?, how does it diff, last time I updated the cron, it matched bzr 100%
[21:41] <ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone else on the release team would have a look at Bug #631413.  They are reasonably ready to push an upload and IME it's demonstrably better than what we have now, but I'm hardly dispassionate on the question.
[21:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 631413 in mesa (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Mesa 7.9 (affects: 4) (heat: 26)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/631413


[01:26] <jamie_1> hey do i have to set it to any release to go from 16.04.1 to 17.04?
[01:27] <jamie_1> i have it set to lts but im using the -d flag and im not finding anything
[01:28] <tsimonq2> jamie_1: Google instructions for going from 14.04 to 14.10, same applies here.
[01:28] <tsimonq2> jamie_1: So you need to upgrade to 16.10, then go to 17.04.
[01:29] <jamie_1> okay i thought so but wasnt sure, im actually on gnome but im trying to use gnome 3.22 instead of 3.18
[01:37] <dax> 16.04 to 16.10:
[01:37] <dax> !upgradeofflts
[01:37] <dax> 16.10 to 17.04 is probably do-release-upgrade -d
[01:38] <dax> "i have it set to lts" => not sure if that means you think 17.04 is lts, but it's not
[01:39] <dax> well, i mean, it's not even released yet. but when it is it won't be lts :)
[09:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[09:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone about?
[17:34] <jamie_1> hey odd question, i was gonna run some test for ubuntu and ubuntu gnome... but im not sure where to find the automated or manual test cases


[02:00] <IdleOne> @mark endafy<EMAIL_ADDRESS>#ubuntu-offtopic. bad attitude
[02:20] <elky> Is this a fake teadict?
[02:21] <elky> Because teadict usually makes more sense.
[02:21] <IdleOne> someone please handle ArtArfon. I am in a bad mood and don't want to be over reacting but he is constantly offtopic/trolling
[02:22] <elky> Where?
[02:22] <IdleOne> #u
[02:22] <elky> Nm, found.
[02:23] <IdleOne> he has had more then enough warnings over the past few days. he knows the rules and continues to ignore them
[02:24] <elky> Next time I"ll boot him
[02:25] <IdleOne> thank you.
[02:27] <IdleOne> Also from what i have seen he never has the same IP
[02:31] <elky> Always the same nick?
[02:32] <IdleOne> yup
[02:32] <IdleOne> well he might be using others I don't know about but this nick is common
[02:37] <bazhang> * ArtArfon has quit (Quit: Cannot send to IdleHangs)
[02:37] <IdleOne> yeah he has a thing for me
[02:37] <bazhang> want to ban forward here?
[02:37] <IdleOne> nope
[02:38] <IdleOne> I already set a ban on the nick
[02:38] <bazhang> he was an issue for me as well
[02:38] <bazhang> okay
[02:38] <IdleOne> if he wants to come and discuss he knows this channel
[02:54] <bazhang> they're backporting a kernel? yikes
[03:15] <elky> Oh my.
[03:16] <Seeker`> mmmwut?
[05:57] <bazhang> kees, hi
[07:15] <maco> can we please get someone in here to join -ot and do something about the anti-gay rhetoric?
[07:16] <Flannel> Eh?
[07:16] <Flannel> Sigh.  Leave for a minute....
[07:16] <rww> ah, it appears maco is more direct than I.
[07:16]  * rww sneaks back out
[07:16] <maco> elky: aut0tek too
[07:18] <maco> can rww have our opiness extended to include -ot since we're often catching badness there?
[07:19] <rww> !canibeanop
[07:19] <rww> need to follow The Process :(
[07:19] <rww> (yes, you can bean op!)
[07:19] <maco> we're *already* on the ops team though
[07:19] <Amaranth> +1
[07:19] <rww> I'm not, technically. -women isn't a core channel for purposes of -ops eligibility.
[07:20] <Amaranth> +1 anyway
[07:20] <maco> we just need a level-up since we have XP
[07:20] <maco> rww: i thought you were a #ubuntu op too?
[07:20] <rww> maco: nope, but I applied there too :)
[07:21] <elky> You also withdrew, no?
[07:21] <rww> elky: no, that was the first time around, 6 months ago.
[07:21] <rww> I reapplied 2 months ago.
[07:21] <elky> Ah, I didn't know you'd decided to stop being an offtopic troll :P
[07:21] <rww> It wasn't noticible? Here's me thinking I'd improved ;P :(
[07:23] <rww> maco: Anyways. It's my understanding that "level-up" involves the same application process.
[07:23] <rww> Presumably, existing ops are more likely to get accepted than newbies, but still.
[07:23] <maco> can you imagine if we were as ruthless in -ot as we are in u-w?
[07:24] <rww> I can. Sometimes, I have these odd lucid dreams...
[07:24] <rww> but no, it'd never work. -offtopic isn't designated as a safe space, so there isn't as much justification for it.
[07:25] <Amaranth> That's a sad thought
[07:25] <elky> -offtopic often gets too long of a rope.
[07:30] <rww> Seems like there are fewer regulars pulling for more rope than there used to be, but I may be biased in that observation.
[07:31] <rww> e.g. the insanity right now is mostly coming from people I've never seen before.
[07:31] <maco> i think you're right
[07:31] <maco> and the regulars have learned to enforce civility a bit
[07:31] <maco> at least, we're not the only ones going "oh no you didnt!"  There's someone in #u called 'sarkofag', my tab complete tells me.
[10:02] <elky> Also, has syrius being a PITA before now? I'm being interrogated about identity and subsequently mocked for saying interrogating people about their identities is inappropriate.
[10:03] <elky> (this is in PM btw)
[10:04] <rww> he wandered onto the topic of male circumcision in #ubuntu yesterday, so I'd say so.
[10:05] <elky> in #u?
[10:05] <rww> 21:58:15
[10:05] <rww> UTC
[10:06] <rww> only for a minute; maco kicked him out for being offtopic (which he was being right before then)
[14:05] <tsimpson> Please see bug #210769 and tweak your aliases if needed
[14:51]  * nhandler is talking to him
[15:04] <nhandler> Ergon promised to follow the rules, not spam/flood 'ubuntu', and stay on topic. I warned him that additional consequences would be dealt if he doesn't stay true to this promise
[15:40] <Chaos2358> Hi are there any ops available?
[15:45] <tsimpson> Chaos2358: what can we help you with?
[15:46] <Chaos2358> i was banned a while back from #ubunutu and #ubuntu off topic for for flipping out on someone. i've been unbanned for #ubuntu but i have some offtopic questions and wondering if i can get that ban lifted
[15:52] <Chaos2358> i have to restart my pc will return momentarily
[15:55] <Chaos2358> tsimpson well?
[15:56] <tsimpson> Chaos2358: I'm not an op in #ubuntu-offtopic, so you'll have to wait for one to show up
[15:56] <Chaos2358> tsimpson ok thank you anyway
[16:07] <Chaos2358> any #ubuntu-offtopic ops available??
[16:18] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: you'll have to have a chat with ikonia when he is next about
[16:19] <Chaos2358> ok thats fine. command is /whois correct?
[16:19] <Seeker`> yeah, with his name twice will tell you how long he has been idle
[16:19] <Chaos2358> ok thanks
[16:20] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: please can I ask you to leave here until then?
[16:20] <Chaos2358> yes no problem
[16:21] <Seeker`> ikonia: ^ Chaos2358 asking for unban. Was reasonable, didn't explode or anything.
[17:11] <jussi> !away > Islington
[17:26] <IdleOne> oh I like the new kick/ban !factoid thingy
[17:26] <IdleOne> I assume it works with +q also
[17:45] <tsimpson> IdleOne: what do you mean?
[17:45] <IdleOne> hmm lol not sure
[17:46] <IdleOne> I just realised there is no reason given in +q
[17:46] <IdleOne> nm me
[17:46] <tsimpson> there is no reason for +b's either ;)
[17:46] <tsimpson> just for the /remove or /kick
[17:46] <IdleOne> yes but normally a +b comes with kick
[17:47] <IdleOne> anyway it is still a nice feature
[17:47] <IdleOne> and also accepts multiple !factoids
[17:47] <tsimpson> yeah, it's something "we" have had on the list for a while
[17:48] <tsimpson> and by "we", I mostly mean "me" :)
[17:48] <IdleOne> about time you got to it :P
[17:48]  * tsimpson didn't actually
[17:48] <tsimpson> m4v went and did it
[17:48] <tsimpson> if you want to say thanks, drop in to #ubuntu-bots-devel :)
[20:00] <nhandler> Looks like a false alarm
[20:04] <knome> he was trying to get unbanned from -ot earlier today, right?


[12:35] <wolfeon> I've a question about regulations and policies about software included in Ubuntu
[12:36] <wolfeon> Shouldn't an author's personal rants be taken out of software when available to the user?
[12:36] <wolfeon> xchm for instance, the guy goes on the "use gpl, anyone else is ignorant" spreee
[12:37] <wolfeon> would it be too bold of me to file a bug in launchpad so people may talk about it?
[12:39] <cjwatson> we have no policy covering that, and we'd only take the risk of aggravating the upstream author by removing it if it were particularly egregious and offensive
[12:40] <wolfeon> cjwatson: this is free software though. Isn't the point of Ubuntu to make the distrobution the best user oritented there is? the author's rant is nothing but flame bait/a troll
[12:44] <Chipzz> wolfeon: and how does a troll change the quality of ubuntu?
[12:44] <Chipzz> most people will never even read it
[12:44] <wolfeon> Chipzz: seeing the rant for 2-5 seconds every time I open a chm is getting very irritating
[12:45] <Chipzz> than use gnochm?
[12:45] <Chipzz> s/than/then/
[12:45] <wolfeon> hmm
[12:45] <wolfeon> I think there was a reason for not using it
[12:45] <Chipzz> I use it, and it opens my whole collection of ebooks :P
[12:45] <mc44> remove the line from the source if you are that bothered. Thats the joy of free software
[12:46] <wolfeon> mc44: I'm sure others would like to take out the rant from the binary distribution...
[12:47] <mc44> if they were Im sure they have created a package for others like yourself to download
[12:47] <wolfeon> oh, that is right..
[12:47] <wolfeon> gnochm doesn't position everything correctly
[12:48] <Chipzz> mc44: that doesn't take ubuntu updates into account though
[12:48] <mc44> Chipzz: they could submit such a package to the motu. Im sure the delta from debian would be soooo worth it.
[12:48] <Chipzz> wolfeon: iirc you can use gtkhtml and gecko in gnochm; maybe try the other rendering backend?
[12:48] <wolfeon> mc44: rants aren't in my catagory of being friendly. How'd you like one of Linus's famous troll emails to splash on your screen every time you boot ubuntu?
[12:48] <Chipzz> (I may be mistaken though)
[12:49] <wolfeon> well one thing I do like about gnochm, it launches a browser when you click on an external link.. xchm trys rendering in the program.
[12:50] <mjg59> If you're worried about packages in universe, #ubuntu-motu may be a better bet
[12:50] <wolfeon> hmm, oh.. yes..
[12:50] <wolfeon> mc44: thank you for clue batting me
[12:51] <mc44> wolfeon: im sure you mean mjg59. But anyway :)
[12:51] <wolfeon> mc44: lazy tabber me
[12:56] <Fujitsu> doko: Shouldn't some of those rebuilds have been build1, not ubuntu1?
[02:06] <AndrewB> Guys, why would a package be in the repo for 6.10 but not 6.06? For instance.. ajaxterm is there for 6.10 and not 6.06, is it that nobody has packaged it up for a 6.06 system or any reason?
[02:07] <Lathiat_> it was likely only added in 6.10.
[02:07] <AndrewB> but 6.06 is LTS so would it not be sane to add to 6.06?
[02:08] <Lathiat_> no, nothing is added to releases post release
[02:08] <ajmitch> not particularly, and it's in universe also
[02:08] <Lathiat_> about the only exception is the -backports archives
[02:08] <Lathiat_> and AFAIK thats just newer versions and not new packages
[02:08] <ajmitch> being LTS means that it doesn't get all this new stuff thrown into it
[02:08] <AndrewB> Ahh that makes sense..
[02:09] <AndrewB> it is just maintained.. what packages are there..
[02:09] <Lathiat_> correct
[02:10] <AndrewB> I am doing some wiki pages and realised that it only worked on 6.10.. and that 6.06 didn't work. What should happen there.. do I just leave as is.. or go find out how to make 6.06 work with it?
[02:10] <_ion> Or upgrade.
[02:11] <AndrewB> _ion: personally I do have 6.10. It is for the others that read said documentation.
[02:12] <AndrewB> _ion: possibly that means leave documents as is.
[02:20] <LaserJock> AndrewB: is this on the ubuntu wiki?
[02:20] <AndrewB> Yes.
[02:20] <AndrewB> LaserJock: yes.
[02:21] <LaserJock> AndrewB: you might want to ask the doc team then
[04:22] <bugnthecode> I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but I was wondering what the opinions on "Beginning Linux Programming," (published by wrox) were?
[04:26] <Hobbsee> bugnthecode: it's the middle of the night in europe, you're probably not going to get an answer.  maybe try #ubuntu-offtopic
[04:26] <bugnthecode> Hobbsee: thanks
[04:40] <jdong> bugnthecode: it's an interesting book to read... as is everything from wrox, about traditional Linux programming
[04:40] <jdong> POSIX programming in general
[04:41] <jdong> IIRC it starts with a good section about bash scripting
[04:41] <jdong> then goes into POSIX-ish C programming
[07:36] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, I was done building CDs.
[08:02] <pitti> Good morning
[08:02] <Mithrandir> hiya Martin
[08:05] <Hobbsee> hey pitti, Mithrandir :)
[08:05] <LaserJock> hi pitti :-)
[08:05] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:14] <Mithrandir> you can have positive version numbers less than zero.
[08:14] <pitti> doko: hm, from your ldbl128 change I see a lot of -Xubuntu1 versions -- shouldn't these have been -Xbuild1 ones without Maintianer: change?
[08:14] <Mithrandir> which is really, really crackful.
[08:14] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: better would be to fix it :P
[08:14] <Fujitsu> pitti: I said that this morning...
[08:14] <StevenK> Mithrandir: I think the sync script is smart enough to kick back...
[08:14] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: it took a while for me to work out wtf was happening.
[08:15] <Hobbsee> heh, i'll bet!
[08:16] <Mithrandir> [Nothing to update]  blktrace (0 [ubuntu]  >= 0~git-20061221162513-3 [debian] )
[08:16] <Mithrandir> fun?
[08:17] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[08:18] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% dpkg --compare-versions 0 gt 0~git-20061221162513-3 && echo true
[08:18] <StevenK> true
[08:18] <StevenK> Which means dpkg is also on the same crack?
[08:19] <Fujitsu> StevenK, that's the right comparison.
[08:19] <Fujitsu> Going by the rules, the Debian version is less.
[08:19] <StevenK> But it looks like the sync script is doing the same comparsion...
[08:19] <Mithrandir> StevenK: it's correct, but it shouldn't assume that 0 is the lowest version possible.
[08:20] <StevenK> Mithrandir: But what else is there?
[08:20] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: there is no lowest version possible.
[08:20] <Fujitsu> Shouldn't it check if it actually exists?
[08:20] <StevenK> What about the empty string?
[08:20] <StevenK> I don't think Policy even mentions that.
[08:20] <Fujitsu> That works.
[08:20] <Fujitsu> Empty string is lower.
[08:20] <Mithrandir> StevenK: ~ is less than an empty string
[08:21] <Mithrandir> hmm
[08:21] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Not according to dpkg.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> weird:
[08:21] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > dpkg --compare-versions '~' lt "" && echo true
[08:21] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > dpkg --compare-versions '0~' lt "0" && echo true
[08:21] <Mithrandir> true
[08:21] <Fujitsu> ~ is greter than ''
[08:21] <Mithrandir> that's arguably a bug.
[08:21] <Fujitsu> Yes, that.
[08:21] <StevenK> Actually, dpkg seems to just exit 1 with an empty string first.
[08:21] <LaserJock> pitti: don't know if you saw but new edubuntu-docs packages is built and ready for MIR now, when you get a chance
[08:22] <Fujitsu> Surely ~ should be less than '', anyway.
[08:22] <pitti> LaserJock: ah, great; I saw mvo's ack, just upload
[08:25] <Mithrandir> hah, the version number is buggy.
[08:26] <Mithrandir> "The upstream_version may contain only alphanumerics[33]  and the characters . + - : (full stop, plus, hyphen, colon) and should start with a digit."
[08:27] <Mithrandir> but policy doesn't talk about ~, so it's probably lagging implementation.
[08:29] <Trewas> cjwatson: done (I was already sleeping when you asked)
[08:34] <dholbach> good morning
[08:48] <LaserJock> pitti: what did you mean by "just upload"?
[08:49] <pitti> LaserJock: I mean, after a bug gets verification-done, you don't need another approval for the -updates upload
[08:49] <LaserJock> pitti: it's a MIR not an SRU
[08:49] <pitti> argh, yes; sorry, mixed that up
[08:50] <LaserJock> np, I was just confused
[08:50] <LaserJock> I was pretty sure you didn't want me to upload it to Main :-0
[08:50] <pitti> :)
[09:25] <Riddell> pitti: what has he done this time?
[09:25] <pitti> Riddell: oh, nothing code-wise, just coming here to #u-d :)
[09:25] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ubiquity 1.3.24 only seems to have some of its .debs in the archive this morning :(
[09:26] <Riddell> pitti: awooga
[09:27] <Mithrandir> Riddell: gnr, ok
[09:27] <Mithrandir> Riddell: investigating
[09:31] <mh21> pitti: hanging out with the cool guys :-P
[09:33] <pitti> urgh, 44 sync requests again?
[09:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, btw, are you done with syncing?
[09:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, given that the single sync I wanted to do failed due to a soyuz bug.
[09:34] <Mithrandir> Riddell: seems like the binaries ended up in failed-to-move; reprocessed.
[09:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: negative version numbers *tsk*
[09:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: they're positive, they just happen to be less than zero.
[09:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, I guess that's only valid if you wiggle the empty string into an appropriate place of the rational numbers :)
[09:40] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: how about that nfs-utils sync I talked about a few weeks ago?
[09:41] <pitti> tepsipakki: can do, if you requestsync a bug
[09:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's a new upstream version.
[09:42] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: I haven't gotten around to looking at it yet, sorry.
[09:42] <pitti> ah, NEEDSBLESSING then
[09:42] <tepsipakki> pitti: right :)
[09:42] <tepsipakki> it's 1.0.11, we have a git-version prior to that
[09:43] <tepsipakki> besides it has a patch which makes root-access to work with kerberos
[10:20] <Kagou> cjwatson: can we discuss about Bug #89069 ?
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 89069 in ubiquity "problem with time" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89069
[10:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, I guess at some point I need to learn the policy about backports, too, and do them; they seem to pile up
[10:32] <Hobbsee> [20:32]  *** You set the channel topic to "Welcome to the Ubuntu Feisty Fawn support channel | Feisty is NOT stable, and not even close to usable | Feisty Herd 4 released: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd4 | Please don't use Feisty if you need a working system or you can't afford to have a broken system | Please use #ubuntu to ask questions about Dapper or  Edgy. | Xorg 7.2 has been merged, Beryl/Compiz now work.  Herd 5 is not out yet, it
[10:32] <Hobbsee> will be out 2 hours after the last person asked".
[10:32] <Hobbsee> sigh.
[10:32] <Hobbsee> now i can just point them to the darned topic.
[10:33] <Riddell> Mithrandir: are those ubiquity .debs likely to appear soon do you think?
[10:34] <Mithrandir> Riddell: about now, I believe
[10:34] <Riddell> I'll keep pressing F5 :)
[10:43] <Riddell> mvo: no new dist-upgrader tar?
[10:44] <mvo> urgh, it went away again?!?
[10:44] <mvo> Riddell:  Iwill do another upload
[10:45] <cjwatson> Kagou: could be related to bug 63175; what do you want to discuss beyond what's in the bug? I hadn't actually read the bug yet until you mentioned it
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63175 in e2fsprogs "Edgy Beta -- fsck on every (re)boot" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63175
[10:47] <mvo> I get 403 for http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glibc/libc6-dev-i386_2.4-1ubuntu12.1_amd64.deb is that known?
[10:48] <Kagou> cjwatson: when ubuntu first boot (after installation), i suspect that fsck/partition  is done before setting local time isn't it ?
[10:48] <cjwatson> before it's guaranteed to be set, anyway
[10:49] <cjwatson> I don't really think a fix for this ought to be ubiquity-specific
[10:50] <Kagou> cjwatson: when ubiquity ask for localtime, does it set system time to local time ?
[10:50] <Kagou> so that explain that when it create partition and format it it do it on local time instead of system time
[10:50] <Mithrandir> fabbione: the ocfs2 one is fairly large, but if you've tested it and is happy with it, go ahead.
[10:51] <cjwatson> Kagou: not to my knowledge, no
[10:51] <Kagou> cjwatson: so why on first boot, ubuntu says that my new partitions (made by ubiquity) have date in futur ?
[10:51] <cjwatson> Kagou: I don't know. Stop grilling me about it 15 minutes after I've woken up
[10:53] <cjwatson> if the partitions are created in UTC, then their creation time will appear an hour later once the clock is set to UTC+1
[10:53] <cjwatson> so I can believe that that could do it, but I'm not willing to make up a fix for it on the spot - clock handling is hairy and you have to think about it carefully
[10:54] <Riddell> yay, new ubiquity in /me builds CDs
[11:02] <doko> pitti: hmm, bug in the script ... I'll note these packages ...
[11:03] <pitti> doko: NB that my version did *not* create -buildX version
[11:03] <pitti> s
[11:03] <pitti> doko: next_version() vs. next_version_rebuild()
[11:04] <pitti> doko: ok, that shouldn't have been necessary for the Maintainer: purposes, but I needed it for something else and left the function in
[11:05] <pitti> mvo: may I nag you about bug 85394? it's March, we need to push this urgently
[11:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85394 in tzdata "New timezone data 2007b" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85394
[11:06] <pitti> hey seb128
[11:06] <mvo> pitti: oh, sorry. it didn't show up in my search because the task for feisty was closed :/
[11:06] <pitti> mvo: NB that *all* SRUs should have a fixed feisty task :)
[11:06] <mvo> pitti: quite a few do not :)
[11:07] <mvo> pitti: but yeah, I agree
[11:07] <pitti> mvo: I usually don't accept those
[11:07] <pitti> except for cases where the bug is only about an edgy-specific sru
[11:08] <seb128> hi pitti
[11:12] <mvo> pitti: I will do 85394 before lunch
[11:13] <pitti> mvo: danke!
[11:13] <mvo> pitti: de'rien
[11:15] <mvo> Mithrandir: could you please accept update-manager?
[11:15] <seb128> are we rolling CD images again?
[11:19] <StevenK> pitti: Do you want to accept my edgy SRU? :-)
[11:20] <pitti> StevenK: cyrus? I just did
[11:20] <StevenK> Oh nice, thanks!
[11:21] <pitti> Riddell: bug 84717, patches are good now, I updated the bug
[11:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84717 in update-manager "SRU: updates necessary for Kubuntu Upgrade Tool in Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84717
[11:22] <Riddell> pitti: great, thanks
[11:24] <Frost^> Good morning. I'd like to examine Ubuntu's boot flow. Can someone please tell me what is the first script which is ran when the system is started?
[11:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: how is herd-5 CD testing going?
[11:28] <cjwatson> Frost^: 'init' in the initramfs (typically /initrd.img or /boot/initrd.img); you'll find a copy of the initramfs init along with related scripts in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init
[11:28] <cjwatson> Frost^: the initramfs eventually chains to /sbin/init in the real system
[11:29] <cjwatson> Frost^: which then (in edgy and later) does things based on job files in /etc/event.d/
[11:30] <Frost^> cjwatson: Thank you, I'll have a look.
[11:30] <MagnusR> Frost^: More about edgys new starting system can be found at http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[11:32] <pitti> Laser_away: edubuntu-docs approved
[11:32] <Frost^> Thanks MagnusR, I've read about upstart a little already. I hope upstart being backward compatible will not complicate my understanding of it.
[11:33] <MagnusR> Frost^: Jupp Upstart is backward compatible.
[11:34] <pitti> cjwatson, Mithrandir: do you have any objection against me adding /usr/lib/debootstrap/{edgy,feisty}.fakechroot scripts to debootstrap proper? that seems much more useful to me than keeping them in apport (after h5 release, of course)
[11:34] <Frost^> Thank you, this gives me plenty of information to start with.
[11:34] <Keybuk> Frost^: mostly, "backwards compatible" just means that one of the upstart job is to run the old /etc/init.d/rc script
[11:35] <Keybuk> upstart has a superset of the features that were provided by sysvinit through the /etc/inittab file, so it is able to perform the same actions
[11:36] <Frost^> I see. By the way, will all packages use upstart in fiesty?
[11:36] <cjwatson> pitti: is the fakechroot patch to debootstrap less horrible than it used to be?
[11:36] <cjwatson> pitti: oh, it's already integrated
[11:37] <pitti> cjwatson: you mean the difference of the normal vs. fakechroot scripts?
[11:37] <cjwatson> pitti: sure, no problem then
[11:37] <pitti> it's pretty tame
[11:37] <Keybuk> Frost^: no
[11:37] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, yes, the _fakechroot() functions are there; it's just adding the new release scripts
[11:38] <cjwatson> ok
[11:39] <Frost^> I see. Thanks. I'll start debugging some init scripts now :)
[11:40] <Mithrandir> mvo: there's no point; we're not rolling new CDs.
[11:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: I need to test i386 alternate, assuming that's good, we're just waiting for kubuntu.
[11:41] <mvo> Mithrandir: the important point is that the dist-upgrader bit gets into the archive, it does not need to go onto the CD
[11:41] <Mithrandir> mvo: hm, ok
[11:41] <mvo> thanks
[11:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, good
[12:01] <doko> Riddell: kde version tests ...
 seb128: I need to test i386 alternate, assuming that's good, we're just waiting for kubuntu.
[12:01] <doko> make[1] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/konserve-0.10.3'
[12:01] <doko> *** YOU'RE USING autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.61.
[12:01] <doko> *** KDE requires autoconf 2.53 or newer
[12:02] <Riddell> doko: probably quite a lot of packages affected by that, it's a simple enough patch to fix
[12:04] <doko> Riddell: yeah, maybe, just seen that while rebuilding packages in universe, maybe point that out the kubuntu community (if they care)
[12:04] <Riddell> doko: this is the archive rebuild test?
[12:05] <doko> Riddell: no, rebuild for the ldbl128 changes on sparc and powerpc
[12:05] <Keybuk> ... if the KDE community didn't abuse the autotools ...
[12:06] <doko> pitti, I need a guinea pig for the OOo powerpc build, just in case you know one ... ;)
[12:06] <doko> fabbione: same for sparc
[12:07] <Riddell> Keybuk: how does KDE abuse autotools?
[12:07] <Keybuk> Riddell: last time I looked, they had a hideous patched version of automake and libtool
[12:07] <Keybuk> that may have changed since
[12:07] <Riddell> it has, they got scrapped for CMake :)
[12:07] <Keybuk> eww
[12:35] <highvoltage> anyone happen to know why the default wallpaper is still called warty-final-ubuntu.png ? :)
[12:35] <mvo> pitti: how can I test #85394
[12:37] <seb128> bug #85394
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 85394 in tzdata "New timezone data 2007b" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85394
[12:37] <seb128> mvo: probably use the timezone that need to be update, set a date after the time switch and look if you have the correct hour
[12:38] <cjwatson> highvoltage: IIRC because changing the wallpaper name would require transitioning the default somehow ...
[12:38] <cjwatson> (but ICBW)
[12:39] <highvoltage> ah. pity they didn't make it an alternative called default-wallpaper.png :)
[12:40] <doko> dholbach: you do have a powerpc machine as well, do you?
[12:43] <dholbach> doko: yes, an old one
[12:43] <doko> dholbach: so you compete with pitti ;)
[12:43] <dholbach> doko: hm?
[12:44] <dholbach> doko: I'm not sure I know what you're referring to :)
[12:44] <doko> dholbach: two elderly people with old computers ;-p
[12:44] <dholbach> pffffft :)
[12:46] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ping?
[12:46] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[12:46] <Hobbsee> meh
[12:46] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I just couldn't figure out, what exact date the swich happens
[12:46] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: are you here, with your archive admin hat on?
[12:47] <seb128> Hobbsee: friday is pitti's day, or that's a freeze question?
[12:47] <Hobbsee> seb128: i need 4 uploads accepted.  i'd forgotten that pitti could do it
[12:47] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just universe stuff?  I'll do it.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: could you accept my uploads of konserve, kat, ksniffer and kalcul please?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> they all fix the FTBFS, after doko's rebuild
[12:49] <Hobbsee> yup, they're all universe
[12:49] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: yup, 'll do.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: thanks very much :)
[12:50] <mantiena> hi all
[12:50] <pitti> Hobbsee: back from lunch; still want me to do anything?
[12:50] <Hobbsee> pitti: i think Mithrandir's handling it
[12:54] <Hobbsee> oh $%^&
[12:55] <StevenK> Hobbsee: ?
[12:55] <mantiena> anybody knows, why there are no todays daily-live .iso at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ ?
[12:56] <cjwatson> mantiena: logs are at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/; you should always check there before asking here
[12:56] <mantiena> cjwatson: thanks
[12:56] <cjwatson> but there *are* images there
[12:57] <cjwatson> reload, or look harder. :-)
[12:58] <mantiena> cjwatson: there are only yesterdays images,.. btw, there are some laptops, which doesn't boot  with any ubuntu version (including herd4) until I specify boot  parameter "noapic"
[12:58] <seb128> mvo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time
[12:58] <seb128> mvo: "Starting in 2007, most of the United States and Canada observe DST from the second Sunday in March "
[12:58] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: crap, i'm an idiot.
[12:58] <mantiena> cjwatson: what data I should submit in bugreport ? only laptop model or some other data ?
[12:58] <mvo> seb128: woah, thanks
[12:58] <mantiena> maybe lspci -n ?
[12:59] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just upload again instead. :-)
[12:59] <pitti> mvo: oh, btw, if you wonder because of the current SRU: that rule for the U.S. is already present in the current -updates version (2006p)
[12:59] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i dont know hwo to fix them - they die in the middle of make.
[12:59] <pitti> mvo: the new changes are a bit less prominent, but would still be nice to have
[12:59] <pitti> mvo: in general, I think we should always keep our stables up to date with the latest tz data, so this will be a recurring task
[01:01] <doko> Hobbsee: I don't know if they break otherwise ...
[01:01] <seb128> mvo: no thanks ;)
[01:01] <mvo> pitti: right, I'm trying to test if the fix is working, but I'm struggeling right now. my understand is that if I move the date to Apr 2007 the time should change by 1h
[01:01] <Hobbsee> doko: two of them fail not due to autohell
[01:02] <pitti> mvo: please look at the attached diffs to find out the new rules and affected TZs. it does *not* affect U.S.
[01:04] <pitti> mvo: btw, you know about zdump(1)?
[01:04] <pitti> mvo: zdump -v -c 2005,2007 Europe/Berlin, for example
[01:05] <mvo> pitti: no, I don't know about this. what time zone is affected by the dst change in the diff? austrialia/eucla ?
[01:05] <cjwatson> mantiena: oh, during releases the cron jobs get turned off so there are no images for today. This is perfectly normal.
[01:06] <pitti> mvo: Bahamas, and Pacific/Easter, for example
[01:06] <mantiena> cjwatson: OK, I hope yestersays daily-live images will be almost identifical to herd5 ;)
[01:07] <mvo> pitti: ok, thanks. I will test with that
[01:08] <Mithrandir> mantiena: images will never be "almost identical" to published images, they'll be the same images, or rebuilds.
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ksniffer seems to build fine on i386 at least
[01:09] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yes...
[01:09] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: it did before, that's no help :P
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: why it blows up on ppc, I'm not sure..
[01:10] <Hobbsee> stop rolling up those little boxes that i'm trying to click on!  gah!
[01:10] <simira> ah... test herd5, yes...
[01:10] <pitti> Hobbsee: folded portlets suck++
[01:10] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, can you please give back drscheme on amd64 again? i386 worked the second time, so third time lucky!
[01:10] <Hobbsee> pitti: yup
[01:10] <Fujitsu> pitti++
[01:12] <mantiena> Mithrandir: I mean  not binary "identifical", but identifical behaviour, I just need to test Ubuntu bugs on some laptops
[01:13] <cjwatson> mantiena: releases are always binary-identical to a daily build.
[01:14] <mantiena> cjwatson: Thanks for info, could you tell me what data I should submit in bugreport about not starting Ubuntu  until I specify noapic ? only laptop model or some other data ?
[01:14] <cjwatson> mantiena: no.
[01:14] <cjwatson> mantiena: as in, you're asking me because I happened to be talking, not because I actually know anything about it, and that's not good behaviour
[01:15] <mantiena> cjwatson: sorry, I though, that you are responsible for kernel bugs
[01:15] <cjwatson> I'm not sure where you got that idea, but I'm not
[01:16] <cjwatson> and have never been
[01:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: is it ok or too confusing for you if we upload sources which are not h5 critical, but which we want to get out of our eyes?
[01:16] <schwuk> When's herd 5 due out now?
[01:17] <Hobbsee> schwuk: two hours after the last person asked, as you would have seen in #ubuntu+1's topic.
[01:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: (I probably asked already, but the stanza 'all uploads must be approved' keeps making me doubt)
[01:17] <Hobbsee> ah, you're not there.
[01:17] <mantiena> cjwatson: few weeks ago you told me, that I should report a bug agains kernel, when I  asked,  thats why I though, that you are responsible for kernel ;)
[01:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: no, that's fine.
[01:18] <schwuk> Hobbsee: I am now :) thanks for the pointer
[01:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: in general, I prefer people to stay off, but we're probably ok now anyway, so it's just a matter of getting stuff tested before we release.
[01:29] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: http://err.no/src/lp_expandportlets.user.js
[01:29] <tepsipakki> how do I disable network-manager safely? It thinks I don't have network at all
[01:29] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, some GreaseMonkey script?
[01:29] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: yes.
[01:30] <Mithrandir> hmm, that didn't work correctly here.  I wonder why
[01:30] <Riddell> Mithrandir: kubuntu amd64 desktop CD doesn't load :(  "invalid or corrupt kernel image"
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: nice, thanks.
[01:32] <Mithrandir> I wonder why it doesn't work for me any more.
[01:33] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ugh, sure the burn is good?
[01:33] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, doesn't work here either... Though I am using Epiphany, which is unlikely to help.
[01:33] <Riddell> Mithrandir: done it on two CDs
[01:34] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: try grabbing it again
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: That works a whole lot better :)
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Very nice.
[01:35] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ^^ you might want to grab it again
[01:35] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: the kubuntu cd?
[01:35] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: no, the user.js. :-)
[01:36] <Hobbsee> ahh
[01:36] <Mithrandir> if you want to have expanded portlets by default.
[01:37] <Hobbsee> thankyou :)
[01:37] <mantiena> Anyone could tell me what data I should supply in bugreport, when  onlyUbuntu text mode in HP dv6103 laptop fine until X triest to start and Ubuntu gets frozen iduring X startup (even CapsLock doesn't work). But when I use "noapic" boot parameter then such problem dissapears.
[01:38] <mjg59> mantiena: Kernel, attach lspci, uname -a, dmesg and /proc/interrupts
[01:38] <mjg59> mantiena: Do dmesg and /proc/interrupts for both the noapic and normal cases
[01:39] <Mithrandir> Riddell: but i386 is fine?
[01:39] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yes
[01:39] <Riddell> not sure what to do
[01:40] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll download the amd64 image now and see if it works for me.   If it doesn't, we'll just release without it, sounds ok?
[01:40] <Mithrandir> fsvo ok.
[01:40] <mantiena> mjg59: thank you very much
[01:40] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[01:40] <Hobbsee> so i cant test, sorry :(
[01:41] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you probably don't have 45Mbit either, so I'd be done testing before you anyway. ;-P
[01:41] <j1mc> Mithrandir: haha  :)
[01:41] <mjg59> Hobbsee: For some values of
[01:41] <Mithrandir> j1mc: how's the xubuntu images?
[01:42] <j1mc> i did an expert install last night, went just fine
[01:42] <Hobbsee> mjg59: ahh
[01:42] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: heh.  quite possibly.
[01:42] <j1mc> Mithrandir: I'm getting an AMD64 machine, and hopefully we'll get more xubuntu testers soon.  we're starting to get more
[01:43] <j1mc> sorry i haven't had too many other architectures to report.
[01:43] <Mithrandir> j1mc: ok.  My question is "are you images all good and should be released?"
[01:43] <j1mc> yes
[01:43] <j1mc> how are other *ubuntu's looking?
[01:44] <Mithrandir> apart from a problem with kubuntu amd64 desktop, we look good.
[01:44] <j1mc> what's going on there?
[01:44] <Riddell> kernel doesn't load
[01:45] <j1mc> ouch
[01:45] <cjwatson> some hosage if you have NTFS filesystems too, but it's workaroundablee
[01:45] <j1mc> cjwatson: you mean if people try to autoresize ntfs partitions, or they get hose just during a regular install?
[01:46] <cjwatson> if you have an NTFS filesystem present, the autoresize calculation in the autopartitioner (even if you don't select autoresize) will confuse the partitioner horribly to the point where you have to reboot
[01:46] <cjwatson> workaround is 'mv /usr/bin/ntfsresize /usr/bin/ntfsresize.real' before the autopartitioner starts
[01:46] <tepsipakki> for the record, I just reinstalled (netboot) my work desktop with feisty and all is well :)
[01:47] <tepsipakki> and found out how to disable NM
[01:49] <j1mc> Mithrandir: I'm headed out of town today, and will be gone for the weekend.  . . .  Just letting you know that I won't be around.
[01:50] <Mithrandir> j1mc: ok, thanks for your effort.
[01:50] <j1mc> thank you.  :)
[01:52] <mjg59> I just plugged in a zd1211, and it appeared in network manager. I clicked, and it connected.
[01:52] <mjg59> IT'S THE FUTURE
[01:53] <Mithrandir> mjg59: \o/
[01:54] <_ion> In the future, zd1211 plugs in you.
[01:54] <_ion> Humans are quite good energy sources, you know.
[01:56] <j1mc> greets, pochu
[01:56] <pochu> heya j1mc :)
[01:56] <pochu> j1mc: how are things going?
[01:57] <j1mc> well, thanks.  no show-stoppers in xubuntu
[01:57] <pochu> j1mc: :)
[02:01] <Kagou> wich package/where do i search for X resolution detection on feisty live ?
[02:03] <tepsipakki> Kagou: xresprobe I think
[02:03] <pitti> doko: do you want libjaxp1.3-java-gcj in main?
[02:04] <Kagou> tepsipakki: sure, but i'm searching wich/where is it called on live boot
[02:04] <doko> pitti: yes, that should be sucked in by a new xerces2/xalan2 package, IIRC
[02:04] <Kagou> is it casper/xorg...
[02:04] <Mithrandir> Kagou: casper.
[02:05] <Kagou> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[02:05] <pitti> doko: alright, done
[02:05] <Mithrandir> it just calls dpkg-reconfigure xorg, though
[02:06] <Kagou> Mithrandir: ah ok so it use postinst script of xorg
[02:07] <Kagou> yes ! xdebconfigurator is called from casper but not installed on live
[02:08] <Kagou> and for me only xdebconfigurator report good sync ranges for monitor
[02:08] <Mithrandir> Kagou: then fix xresprobe; xdebconfigurator is in universe.
[02:09] <Kagou> indeed Mithrandir . I will do my best to fix xresprobe
[02:09] <pochu> tepsipakki: do u know when you will sync the video drivers?
[02:10] <pochu> tepsipakki: it would be fine to have a new git checkout for the i810-modesetting, since it's just for testing, and the actual version is quite old
[02:10] <pochu> Version: 1.6.5.git20061014.ac1-1ubuntu4
[02:14] <pitti> doko: oh, you packaged wxwidgets 2.8?
[02:14] <pitti> doko: there are several strange things in the debs
[02:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: seems to boot for me.
[02:16] <Riddell> Mithrandir: curious.  I rsynced it and burned to a new media to make sure and still had the same problem
[02:16] <pitti> doko: e. g.libwxbase2.8-dbg does not have anything in /usr/lib/debug; instead it has lots of file conflicts to libwxbase2.8-0, but doesn't C/R/P it
[02:18] <doko> pitti: looking ... (the same in 2.6?)
[02:18] <pitti> doko: I don't know about 2.6
[02:18] <pitti> doko: I accepted the debs for now to avoid archive confusion, but this looks fix-worthy
[02:19] <tepsipakki> pochu: I've merged all the drivers (37)
[02:19] <tepsipakki> and updated where there were new versions
[02:20] <geser> pochu: there is a new version of i810-modesetting in Debian experimental
[02:20] <tepsipakki> pochu: debian is merging i810/i810-modesetting as 'intel' (same which fedora does)
[02:20] <tepsipakki> in fact I didn't touch -modesetting
[02:21] <tepsipakki> we'll see how soon they are uploaded
[02:22] <Mithrandir> Riddell: isn't there supposed to be an "install" icon on the desktop?
[02:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's the 'enter your credit card number to transfer 100 pounds to Riddel to install' input line
[02:23] <Riddell> Mithrandir: certainly
[02:24] <Riddell> Mithrandir: is ubiquity-frontend-kde installed?
[02:24] <toodles> tepsipakki: Does that mean that i810/i810-modesetting will be available through a new package xserver-xorg-video-intel?
[02:24] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Fixed kat uploaded. Accept at your leisure.
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Riddell: there's one in the system menu, so yes.
[02:25] <tepsipakki> toodles: probably there will be new versions of those before they are merged
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Riddell: and it started ubiquity.
[02:25] <toodles> tepsipakki: Nice!
[02:31] <pitti> can .swf files be considered 'prefered format of modification'?
[02:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: afaik, yes.
[02:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: thanks
[02:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: sorry; it's not
[02:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: there should be a .fla file there
[02:36] <pitti> Mithrandir: it was from vnc2swf, prerecorded desktop session snippets
[02:37] <Mithrandir> pitti: hmm, then I'm not sure.
[02:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: the tool doesn't create .fla files
[02:38] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, it creates .swf directly?
[02:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, it records VNC sessions and creates swf from them
[02:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: and there are three demos in doc/
[02:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: which would mean that there is no editor for those examples
[02:39] <pitti> except 'record your own session'
[02:40] <Liberax> hi
[02:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: indeed
[02:41] <Liberax> why actually feisty ubiquity doesn't recognize dmraid disks in /dev/mapper (also after installing dmraid) in the disk installation chocihe
[02:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: the question arises what the prefered modification format would actually be in that case; really tricky
[02:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: get the files licenced under a BSD licence and not the GPL?
[02:42] <pitti> heh
[02:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: maybe I should move it to multiverse for the time being to cover our backs
[02:43] <elmo> eh?
[02:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: that doesn't help.
[02:43] <pitti> oh, right
[02:43] <pitti> sorry
[02:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: if it's GPL-ed and we don't have the preferred for of modification, it's undistributable, not non-free
[02:43] <pitti> right, I noticed two seconds later, sorry
[02:44] <cjwatson> Liberax: because it's not implemented yet
[02:44] <Liberax> cjwatson: but if i install dmraid before starting ubiquity  ubiquity could see it if i choiche manual partitioning
[02:44] <elmo> Mithrandir/pitti: who says .swf isn't the preferred form of modificaiton?
[02:44] <elmo> AFAIK it is
[02:44] <elmo> tho IANAWD
[02:45] <cjwatson> Liberax: what's your question?
[02:45] <cjwatson> Liberax: dmraid isn't implemented in ubiquity. Sorry etc.
[02:45] <Liberax> cjwatson: it is implemented if i coiche manual partitioning
[02:46] <Mithrandir> elmo: a friend of mine who has dabbled with flash says the format the adobe tools use is .fla (whatever that is) and .swf is an export of that.
[02:46] <cjwatson> partially-implemented, then. It's certainly not implemented properly.
[02:46] <elmo> Mithrandir/pitti: oh, sorry, never mind apparently I was being lied to.  it quite possibly/probably isn't
[02:46] <Mithrandir> elmo: I'm not a flash person either, which is why I was wrong at first. :-)
[02:47] <pitti> ok, then I reject the upload and get back to the uploader; thanks for your input
[02:47] <Liberax> cjwatson: but on dapper after installing dmraid was possible
[02:47] <cjwatson> Liberax: luck
[02:47] <Liberax> cjwatson: thanks very useful
[02:48] <cjwatson> it hasn't been deliberately removed
[02:48] <cjwatson> it's just that if it worked in the first place it was only accidental
[02:49] <cjwatson> and the manual partitioner got completely rewritten in feisty for many other reasons ...
[02:50] <cjwatson> Liberax: so your point is that they don't appear in the automatic partitioning list?
[02:50] <Liberax> cjwatson: appear in the partitioning list only when i choiche manual partitioning
[02:51] <Liberax> cjwatson: on the main list i see only the two separated disks
[02:51] <cjwatson> Liberax: yeah, it's because /dev/mapper/* is excluded to avoid picking up LVM LVs
[02:51] <cjwatson> and partman really doesn't know about dmraid at all
[02:51] <Mithrandir> fabbione: have you had the chance to test -server CDs?
[02:51] <cjwatson> for instance, even if I removed that exclusion, it wouldn't know how to exclude the component disks, which it would need to do
[02:52] <cjwatson> (LVM: bug 32845)
[02:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32845 in partman-auto "Should stop partman-auto from showing LVM volumes" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32845
[02:53] <Liberax> cjwatson: ok so the issue is because we cannot recognize if a device in dev/mapper is lvm or a fakeraid (dmraid)?
[02:53] <cjwatson> Liberax: right, and we don't know how to tell that "real" disks are just dmraid components
[02:54] <Liberax> cjwatson: the second one is a minor issue
[02:54] <cjwatson> you might say so but if we implemented the first but not the second it would create major confusion.
[02:54] <Liberax> cjwatson: yes but i explain
[02:54] <cjwatson> your minor issue == my critical bug reports because somebody got seriously confused
[02:54] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ok, amd64 installed fine here.
[02:56] <Riddell> Mithrandir: great, thanks
[02:57] <Liberax> cjwatson: actually an user to use dmraid must install manually dmraid package before starting ubiquity  so i think that it recognize what disk are in raid
[02:57] <Liberax> cjwatson: do u think that parsing dmraid -r or dmraid -l could be too complex or instable?
[02:58] <cjwatson> Liberax: I don't really know enough about it to say; I have no dmraid systems here. In general I much prefer to avoid parsing text output that's designed for humans to read.
[02:59] <cjwatson> (we still do that in a few places with parted, and it's been the source of a number of bugs)
[02:59] <carlos> cjwatson: JFYI, I just did an upload for Feisty's debian-installer based on the .pot and .po files you have in people.ubuntu.com
[02:59] <cjwatson> carlos: thanks
[02:59] <carlos> it will take a while as all Feisty is being imported
[02:59] <carlos> but if you want I can tell you once I get the confirmation
[03:00] <cjwatson> it's ok, I don't need to know
[03:00] <cjwatson> thanks
[03:00] <carlos> ok
[03:07] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no. being sick all day and i am not going to spend more than 4 minutes around
[03:08] <Mithrandir> fabbione: do you want it released?
[03:08] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes please. at least montreal can test them..
[03:12] <Liberax> cjwatson: seems that dmraid discovering metatada on the disk to recognize raid. dmraid can display the metadata in native format on in other format so we can know the disk of the raid
[03:13] <cjwatson> are there dmraid invocations to (a) display all active dmraid-managed RAID devices (b) display all disks that are components of dmraid devices?
[03:13] <cjwatson> preferably in a machine-readable form
[03:15] <Keybuk> well, that's a new one on me
[03:15] <Keybuk> [^0-9]  is not posix
[03:16] <Treenaks> Keybuk: how do you do it in posix then?
[03:16] <cjwatson> !
[03:16] <cjwatson> ! instead of ^, I mean
[03:17] <Mithrandir> ! in a charclass?
[03:17] <Keybuk> I like the fact it defines it by saying [...]  is exactly like <this reference>, except '^' is gratuitously replaced with '!'
[03:17] <Keybuk> [!0-9]
[03:17] <Treenaks> ok.. good to know.
[03:19] <Liberax> cjwatson: dmraid -r
[03:22] <Liberax> cjwatson: the first is /dev/<therealdevice>, <rawmetdataformat>, <devmapperraiddevicename>, <raidtype>, <status>, <numberofsectos> sectors, data@ 0
[03:23] <Liberax> cjwatson: so we have two entry o this type for a dmraid of two disk
[03:23] <cjwatson> hmm, somebody was working on doing this in d-i
[03:24] <cjwatson> wonder if they got anywhere
[03:24] <Liberax> cjwatson: probably because d-i works fine
[03:24] <cjwatson> it does? we don't have dmraid in main ...
[03:24] <cjwatson> oh, you mean Debian d-i?
[03:24] <Liberax> cjwatson debian
[03:24] <cjwatson> hmm, ok, I may be able to track down a patch then
[03:26] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: remind me, what's the rune for publishing ports?
[03:27] <Liberax> cjwatson: has ubuntu dmraid udeb?
[03:28] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: just ports/daily instead of daily, IIRC
[03:28] <cjwatson> Liberax: in universe, yes
[03:28] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yeah, looks like it, thanks.
[03:28] <cjwatson> Liberax: it could be promoted to main if we were actually using it
[03:29] <cjwatson> no matches for dmraid in Debian's partman
[03:30] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: is it intentional that we have sparc alternates in ports?  I'd think we either shouldn't have them or they should be in daily?
[03:31] <cjwatson> well, sparc is technically only supported on server, not desktop
[03:31] <cjwatson> alternate results in a desktop
[03:31] <cbx33> pitti: does that rejection should apply to pyvnc2swf too?
[03:31] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: oh well, it just looks weird.  I'll publish it as a port.
[03:31] <pitti> cbx33: there's no such package in NEW
[03:31] <cbx33> ahh ok
[03:31] <pitti> cbx33: ah, are you Lionel?
[03:31] <cbx33> no
[03:31] <cbx33> I'm pete
[03:32] <cbx33> I was the one who tried to submit a new pacakge that included one of those files
[03:32] <cbx33> and hence had to rewrite it to make it GPL compatible
[03:33] <lionel> pitty: I am Lionel :) Thanks for the mail btw
[03:33] <pitti> oh, hi lionel
[03:34] <cjwatson> Liberax: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338719 appears to strongly imply that the work has not yet been done in Debian
[03:34] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 338719 in disk-detect "Please add dmraid support to hw-detect" [Wishlist,Open]
[03:34] <cjwatson> Liberax: maybe it works if you do some manual steps, or if you're lucky, or something
[03:38] <Liberax> cjwatson: the device in raid are not hidden also in debian.. and you still do manually install grub the minor issue listed in the message with the patch for a full automatically functional dmraid are trvial but valid
[03:41] <Liberax> cjwatson: i try to ask to debian-boot for an updated status
[03:45] <cjwatson> Liberax: Debian has the same code to suppress /dev/mapper/* as we do
[03:45] <cjwatson> Liberax: I can't parse your commentt about grub, sorry
[03:45] <cjwatson> could you try with more punctuation? :-)
[03:47] <Liberax> cjwatson: for grub i was talking about this http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20051108.120744.d1e3e835.en.html
[03:47] <cjwatson> Liberax: yeah, that's not a patch though, just a commen
[03:47] <cjwatson> t
[03:49] <Liberax> cjwatson: yes i think that this four trivial issue i this message are still valid: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338719;msg=15
[03:49] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 338719 in disk-detect "Please add dmraid support to hw-detect" [Wishlist,Open]
[03:49] <Liberax> the message number 15 of the bug
[03:50] <cjwatson> Liberax: right, except I don't think it's a trivial issue :-)
[03:51] <Liberax> cjwatson: i think that parsing dmraid -r is quite affidable
[03:52] <cjwatson> needs an installer expert with the hardware to actually do the work though
[03:53] <Liberax> cjwatson: i have the hardware and i could give you the precise output format the any installer developer coulde parse the output
[03:53] <Liberax> s/the/then
[03:53] <cjwatson> my experience is that trying to do this without the hardware in front of the person writing the code is soul-crushingly difficult and slow
[03:53] <cjwatson> you're welcome to send patches
[03:54] <Liberax> cjwatson before i learn d-i interneal we have this device support ready by two years :)
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Liberax: d-i isn't very hard.
[04:01] <Liberax> where is the source code of partman auto?
[04:03] <ivoks> ubiquity?
[04:07] <cjwatson> Liberax: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerDevelopment
[04:07] <cjwatson> bear in mind that the patch will not be in just one package
[04:07] <Mithrandir> proof-reading, etc: http://err.no/tmp/herd-5.txt
[04:08] <Mithrandir> I was wondering if I should put something in there about this being the last before beta.
[04:08] <Mithrandir> (and the mirror list is quite bogus, but I'll fill that in when I have the list of mirrors)
[04:08] <Mithrandir> hiya Mark
[04:09] <sabdfl> howdy
[04:09] <Liberax> the problem in closing the bug 32845 is that seems in that in dev/mapper there is only lvm instead there is also dmraid
[04:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32845 in partman-auto "Should stop partman-auto from showing LVM volumes" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32845
[04:09] <cjwatson> Liberax: indeed so
[04:10] <cjwatson> Liberax: I was aware of that, but it was better to fix something that we did support than to worry about further breaking something that we didn't suppor
[04:10] <cjwatson> t
[04:10] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: looks ok to me ...
[04:11] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: though maybe rephrase "This is an early set of images"
[04:12] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: better now?
[04:12] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: yeah
[04:16] <pochu> Mithrandir: maybe you are interested on this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2235609#post2235609
[04:17] <pochu> don't know wether that's fixed or not (or even wether that was happening to you)
[04:17] <Mithrandir> pochu: looks like a bad cd, especially considering it worked when he retried.
[04:17] <pochu> Mithrandir: oh, the bug report
[04:17] <pochu> yeah, then I'll close the report :)
[04:17] <pochu> ty
[04:18] <jdong> Mithrandir: how can bad CD's cause an installed package to bork on configure?
[04:18] <jdong> oh
[04:18] <jdong> nvm
[04:18] <jdong> ubiquity isn't GPG-checked
[04:19] <jdong> was thinking of the alternate
[04:19] <cbx33> hey mako_
[04:19] <pochu> jdong: nvm = mevermind?
[04:19] <jdong> pochu: yep
[04:19] <cjwatson> jdong: that *is* alternate
[04:19] <jdong> cjwatson: yikes :)
[04:19] <jdong> aren't GPG signatures supposed to catch corrupted debs?
[04:19] <cjwatson> "I'm installing Feisty Herd 5 candidate 20070228.1 Alternate i386."
[04:19] <jdong> RAM corruption?
[04:20] <bddebian> Heya
[04:20] <cjwatson> who knows, could b a real bug ...
[04:20] <jdong> interesting enough
[04:20] <cjwatson> the error is kind of uninformative though
[04:20] <bddebian> pitti: Thanks for libtifiles2
[04:21] <pochu> then do I close the report?
[04:21] <pochu> s/don't/doesn't
[04:21] <jdong> pochu: I don't think we can so readily dismiss the bug as a fluke?
[04:21] <jdong> s/can/should/
[04:22] <pochu> jdong: hmm, have I already said I'm learning English?
[04:22] <pochu> jdong: I can't undertand your question :P
[04:22] <jdong> pochu: We should not ignore the bug report like that.
[04:22] <pochu> jdong: ok, now :)
[04:23] <pochu> jdong: I didn't know readily :)
[04:23] <jdong> so I'd say just leave it :)
[04:23] <jdong> launchpad has so many open bugs another one couldn't hurt </flame> :D
[04:23] <pochu> yeah, probably you're right
[04:23] <pochu> hehe
[04:23] <jdong> (kidding, kidding)
[04:23] <Simira> cjwatson: shall I just close the select-keyboard-layout bug?  I don't think BOINC would be thrilled.
[04:32] <cjwatson> Simira: weird, I've no idea how that got fixed, but if it works now, go ahead
[05:09] <AndrewB> Who's bot is ubotu.. or even who setup the bot. [I know it is a supybot]
[05:18] <geser> AndrewB: Seveas is his master
[05:18] <AndrewB> thanks.
[05:19] <Seveas> 'sup AndrewB ?
[05:19] <mvo> cjwatson: I updated bug #67130 (sru-verification), I would appreciate if you could give me a hint about how to reproduce the original problem
[05:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67130 in ubiquity "mount points preparation locked - "No root file system"" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67130
[05:19] <AndrewB> nm Seveas I will be back later.. changing house  =/ hehe
[05:20] <cjwatson> mvo: easiest (if not fastest) way is to do a full install with autopartitioning, then reboot back into the installer and try to install on the same partitions with manual partitioning without changing the partition layoutt
[05:20] <cjwatson> mvo: i.e. just set the mount points to what they were before
[05:20] <cjwatson> mvo: hmm, but you said you did that, curious
[05:22] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, I will try this now. I used a vmware snapshot that should be pretty pristine, perhaps there is a issue with it or something
[05:22] <cjwatson> mvo: did you reformat them in gparted?
[05:22] <mvo> cjwatson: no
[05:23] <mvo> cjwatson: should I ?
[05:24] <cjwatson> no
[05:24] <cjwatson> mvo: oh, hmm, try an existing reiserfs partition instead of ext3
[05:24] <cjwatson> I think with ext3 it may manage to detect what it is and bypass the problem
[05:24] <cjwatson> the code's icky
[05:26] <mvo> that is much better, reiserfs triggers it
[05:26] <mvo> thanks
[05:26] <cjwatson> that was quick
[05:28] <mvo> yeah :) so far the most time-consuming part of the sru-verification is triggering the original problem
[05:28] <mvo> (for the sru-verifications I have done so far at least)
[05:31] <mjg59> cjwatson: Did you say you'd done an upload with the HFS+ resize patch?
[05:32] <mjg59> Or were you going to do that after Herd 5?
[05:37] <AndrewB> Seveas: back. How goes?
[05:38] <Seveas> a bit ill
[05:41] <cjwatson> mjg59: I did it, but it's queued until after Herd 5
[05:42] <mjg59> cjwatson: Thanks
[05:42] <AndrewB> Seveas: hmm me too, cold :(
[05:50] <mvo> pitti: If you reject bugs with the verification-needed tag, could you please also remove the tag?
[05:51] <pitti> I was just typing my answer...
[05:59] <Seveas> dwerwe
[06:00] <Seveas> ok, so there's a bug in vnc, sorry for spewing gibberish
[06:00] <pitti> Seveas: we know your r00t password now :)
[06:00] <Seveas> hehe
[06:41] <doko> pitti: which files do conflict in wxwidgets2.8?
[06:42] <pitti> doko: AFAIR the libraries in /usr/lib/
[06:42] <doko> pitti: no, all have a 'd' in its name
[06:42] <pitti> doko: oh, ok, then this was an oversight; sorry
[06:42] <doko> don't ask me if that makes sense ...
[06:42] <Riddell> Mithrandir: is herd 5 being released?
[06:42] <pitti> I had expected /usr/lib/debug/ stuff
[06:48] <pitti> iwj: is there a trick how to convince dpkg --unpack not to run any maintainer scripts?
[06:49] <Treenaks> pitti: ar x file.deb ; tar -x -v -z -C / -f data.tar.gz
[06:49] <Treenaks> pitti: ? :P
[06:49] <pitti> Treenaks: no, that won't register the deb as unpacked, so I cannot purge it any more
[06:49] <kylem> anyone running feisty with an ati card feel like testing 7.2 driver deb?
[06:49] <Treenaks> good point
[06:49] <pitti> Treenaks: for that, dpkg -x is easier :)
[06:50] <pitti> kylem: my powerpc at most
[06:50] <pitti> kylem: radeon 9200 (runs with free driver)
[06:50] <pitti> but I guess there are testers with more elaborate hw :)
[06:50] <Treenaks> kylem: X700 (with bug 20283, but should work 'good enough')
[06:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
[06:50] <Treenaks> kylem: x86
[06:51] <kylem> Treenaks, http://people.ubuntu.com/~kyle/xserver-xorg-video-ati_6.6.3-2ubuntu1_i386.deb
[06:51] <Treenaks> kylem: downloading
[06:51] <kylem> pitti, 6.6.3-2ubuntu1 in my ~kyle/public_html on rooker
[06:51] <kylem> pitti, you'll have to build it yourself. :P
[06:53] <pitti> kylem: right, but building a single driver shouldn't take that long (I hope)
[06:53] <kylem> it's quite speedy.
[06:54] <pitti> kylem: upgrading my ppc to latest feisty will take the better part of the time :)
[06:54] <kylem> hehe
[06:56] <Treenaks> works
[06:57] <Treenaks> still has bug 20283, but bug 22985 is gone
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[fgl v5000]  really bad sync" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 22985 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[x700]  fails to infer lvds for primary connector on acer ferrari 4005 | card detected, but driver fails to use right output port" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/22985
[06:57] <iwj> pitti: None at all ?  No.
[06:57] <kylem> Treenaks, i'll beat up dave for you.
[06:57] <iwj> pitti: Why do you want to do that ?
[06:57] <pitti> iwj: ok, so unpack control.tar.gz - mangle - repack deb - --unpack, right?
[06:57] <Treenaks> kylem: I sent him my video bios.. he said he'd probably have to rewrite the ATOM parser for it to work..
[06:57] <pitti> iwj: for the apport-fakechroot stuff
[06:58] <kylem> Treenaks, ouch.
[06:58] <iwj> pitti: You can do that if you want, yes.  dpkg -x; dpkg -X; rm; repack.
[06:58] <pitti> iwj: I'd like to be able to purge packages after unpacking them
[06:58] <Treenaks> kylem: and in another bug, I saw that 'rewriting the ATOM parser' is part of Randr 1.2 work
[06:58] <iwj> pitti: OIC
[06:58] <kylem> Treenaks, i'll find out what the status is for you.
[06:58] <iwj> And the maintainer scripts are bad ?
[06:58] <pitti> iwj: but for a gdb run I don't need any configuration, just the naked files
[06:58] <Treenaks> kylem: cool, great
[06:58] <pitti> iwj: some preinst files fail with fakeroot unfortunately
[06:58] <iwj> Doesn't debootstrap know how to synthesize a dpkg database ?
[06:59] <pitti> iwj: I retraced some Gnomeish report with a really huge dependency chain, and about 7 packages didn't install (some that pre-depended on x11-common or so)
[06:59] <pitti> iwj: not sure what you mean with 'synthesize a dpkg database'?
[07:00] <pitti> iwj: debootstrap uses dpkg to unpack/configure all apckages except dpkg itself
[07:00] <pitti> (well, and a few other exceptions)
[07:00] <cjwatson> debootstrap does roughly: touch /var/lib/dpkg/status and create random directories and stuff; extract all core packages; re-unpack all core packages over the top; configure
[07:00] <pitti> ah, the re-unpacking does the trick then
[07:00] <cjwatson> where core => whatever you need to run dpkg
[07:01] <iwj> pitti: If you want a --no-maint-scripts option it shouldn't be too hard.  I wonder if debootstrap would like it too.
[07:02] <pitti> iwj: I can go with the repacking option (since it needs to work on stable releases, too), but eventually such an option would be handy
[07:02] <pitti> iwj: repacking is easy, just takes some time
[07:04] <cjwatson> iwj: my concern with --no-maint-scripts is that people would use it and then report bugs due to the preinst not having run or something
[07:04] <cjwatson> it'd have to be a separate "half-unpacked" state or something, except you wouldn't be able to convert it into unpacked
[07:05] <pitti> iwj: I guess I could even keep the data.tar.{gz,bz2} and just repack control.tar.gz to be faster
[07:05] <cjwatson> the only thing you would have to be allowed to do would be to purge it again
[07:06] <pitti> hm, I think I'll do it with a less hackish way: dpkg-deb -x and keep track of the files myself
[07:07] <pitti> oh, no, then dpkg -S doesn't work
[07:14] <doko> pitti: please could you promote the fastjar source into main? it's splitted out from gcc, so I hope no new inclusion report is needed
[07:14] <pitti> right
[07:16] <pitti> doko: done
[07:16] <doko> thanks
[07:17] <iwj> pitti: You could write a crappy script that did some of the right things.  Maybe use the Perl dpkg of yore ? :-)
[07:18] <iwj> cjwatson: Yes, you're probably right.  It could be undocumented I suppose.
[07:18] <iwj> Or   --no-maint-scripts-yes-i-promise-not-to-report-any-bugs
[07:18] <pitti> lol
[07:19] <iwj> --no-maint-scripts would be a nice alternative to  rm /var/lib/dpkg/info/stupid-package.prerm
[07:20] <Treenaks> --no-maint-scripts --no-really --really-really
[07:20] <Treenaks> or --trust-me :)
[07:20] <iwj> --really-really-im-lying-actually-this-is-apt-and-i-want-to-fuck-your-system
[07:23] <iwj> pitti: For the crappy script approach, the things I can think of you have to do are:  1. control fragment to /v/l/d/status, with Status: install ok installed.   2. info/<package>.list   3. info/<package>.{{pre,post}{inst,rm},md5sums}   3. conffiles (yuk)
[07:23] <iwj> I mean, 3. for each entry in conffiles make an entry in the status fragment.
[07:23] <pitti> iwj: right, or that; I thought of that, but using some ar magic to repack the .deb seems a bit more robust
[07:23] <iwj> And apparently I can't count.
[07:23] <pitti> even if it takes a little longer
[07:23] <iwj> Sure.
[07:24] <pitti> but since I do not have to repack data.tar.gz, it's not that bad
[07:24] <iwj> Right.
[07:24] <pitti> iwj: no idea how bad the overhead of 'ar r' actually is, but should be okay
[07:25] <iwj> The ordering of members in a .deb is important, btw.
[07:25] <pitti> iwj: right, 'ar r' *seems* to preserve it
[07:26] <iwj> pitti: Odd, the FM disagrees.  But well and good.
[07:26] <pitti> oh?
[07:26] <iwj> Oh I'm misreading it.
[07:26] <iwj> It says `_new_ members are added at the end of the file' (emph mine).
[07:26] <pitti> hm
[07:26] <pitti> worked here, but that might have been sheer coincidence
[07:27] <iwj> Thus failing to specify what happens when replacing but the correct behaviour seems clear.
[07:27] <iwj> SuSv3 `Files that replace existing files in the archive shall not change the order of the archive'
[07:27] <pitti> iwj: I'll find out soon eough :)
[07:35] <pitti> kylem: new ati driver works fine for me
[07:36] <kylem> awesome
[07:36] <kylem> thanks
[07:47] <seb128> any i810 user wanting to test the new driver package? http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/xserver-xorg-video-i810_1.7.4-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[07:48] <KaiL> especially people, who are already planning to replace their VGA chip ;)
[07:52] <geser> seb128: this isn't the modesetting branch, is it?
[07:53] <kylem> geser, it isn't.
[07:53] <pochu> seb128: I would like to :)
[07:54] <pochu> seb128:  Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller
[07:56] <pochu> seb128: I just need to restart X, right?
[07:58] <seb128> pochu: yep
[07:58] <seb128> pochu: install the package and restart xorg
[07:58] <seb128> geser: that's the tarball for xorg 7.2
[07:58] <pochu> seb128: already installed
[07:58] <pochu> going now :)
[07:58] <seb128> ok
[07:58] <seb128> thank you
[07:59] <pitti> nice weekend everyone!
[07:59] <seb128> pitti: you too, enjoy as well
[08:01] <pochu> seb128: works fine :)
[08:01] <seb128> pochu: good, thanks for testing ;)
[08:02] <pochu> seb128: do u want me to look for something?
[08:02] <pochu> maybe LP bugs
[08:02] <seb128> pochu: you are welcome to look at bugs and ask people to try the new version when it'll have been uploaded
[08:03] <pochu> seb128: what about the -modesetting driver? will you also update it? :)
[08:05] <seb128> pochu: no, Debian has no new version and I'm not maintain xorg, just giving an hand to update to xorg 7.2 and that's not an official tarball
[08:05] <mjg59> pochu: I'll look into that if I have time
[08:06] <pochu> mjg59: thanks :)
[08:06] <pochu> seb128: ok
[08:06] <geser> seb128: is xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting 1.7.2.git20070210-1 to old for xorg 7.2?
[08:06] <pochu> mjg59: I think that, as the -modesetting is heavy development, and even unstable, we can checkout a new git version, since the actual is too old
[08:06] <pochu> ups, that's what I want!
[08:06] <pochu> :)
[08:07] <geser> that 1.7.2-* version is Debian experimental
[08:07] <seb128> geser: you don't ask to the right person, I'm using ATI on my desktop and don't know anything about that modesetting driver ;)
[08:08] <seb128> geser: we can probably sync that from Debian
[08:08] <pochu> tepsipakki: do you know geser question?
[08:09] <geser> crimsun compiled the Debian experimental version for Ubuntu: http://revu.tauware.de/~crimsun/
[08:09] <mjg59> Which version we want will depend on what version of xorg we ship
[08:10] <seb128> mjg59: we ship 7.2
[08:10] <tepsipakki> geser: we could sync from experimental like seb128 suggested
[08:11] <seb128> looks like we could just sync the Debian package
[08:11] <tepsipakki> hmm, what was the problem with EXA&ati again?
[08:12] <mjg59> seb128: Sorry, I meant server version rather than release version
[08:12] <tepsipakki> mjg59: 1.2
[08:12] <seb128> mjg59: we have 1.2, is 1.3 available yet?
[08:12] <tepsipakki> not yet
[08:12] <mjg59> 1.3 is out this week, in theory
[08:12] <seb128> when will it be available?
[08:12] <mjg59> I believe that the code is frozen
[08:12] <seb128> we might want to consider it
[08:12] <mjg59> I'll check
[08:12] <seb128> not my call though
[08:12] <tepsipakki> yes, we might want that
[08:12] <mjg59> If we get 1.3, then we also want randr 1.2, which needs a rebuild of the modesetting driver
[08:12] <seb128> that's 1.2 with new xrandr right?
[08:13] <pochu> crimsun: dpkg: considering removing xserver-xorg-video-i810 in favour of xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting ...
[08:13] <pochu> dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of xserver-xorg-video-i810 (--auto-deconfigure will help):
[08:13] <pochu>  xserver-xorg-video-all depends on xserver-xorg-video-i810
[08:13] <seb128> mjg59: we already have randr1.2 (if you speak of the lib)
[08:13] <mjg59> seb128: There's some awkward build-ordering issues - I can't remember whether it needs redoing with the new server
[08:13] <geser> pochu: that package is for quick testing and need proper merging
[08:13] <pochu> crimsun: that's related to bug 80417
[08:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 80417 in xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting "i810 modesetting driver can't be installed concurrently with ubuntu-desktop" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80417
[08:14] <pochu> geser: ok :)
[08:14] <pochu> well, going to restart x :)
[08:15] <Amaranth> and he was never heard from again
[08:16] <Amaranth> :P
[08:17] <pochu> -modesetting works fine, but I have the same issue I had with the old version, and with 915resolution
[08:17] <Amaranth> pochu: ?
[08:18] <pochu> i didn't reported it
[08:19] <pochu> the Y axe is stretched
[08:20] <geser> streched?
[08:20] <pochu> geser: that's what the dictionary says ;)
[08:21] <pochu> geser: it's longer than it should be
[08:21] <pochu> so the icons are larger, and all that :)
[08:21] <pochu> also, the fonts are strange...
[08:21] <pochu> screenshot
[08:22] <mjg59> cjwatson: I've got a patch that adds basic GPT/MBR synchronisation. I'll throw it at you later.
[08:23] <pochu> http://emilio.pozuelo.org/screenshot.png <--- do you see it fine?
[08:24] <pochu> look at the ubuntu icon, for example
[08:25] <geser> it looks normal to me
[08:25] <mjg59> pochu: No, that looks fine here. Which is unsurprising.
[08:25] <tepsipakki> pochu: so you have a wrong resolution which the panel stretches?
[08:26] <mjg59> If there's an issue with your display, then...
[08:26] <mjg59> That is, if you take a screenshot, it'll still look fine here
[08:26] <pochu> then I'll take a photo :)
[08:26] <phanatic> pochu: rather take a photo ;)
[08:26] <phanatic> :)
[08:26] <pochu> phanatic: :)
[08:26] <cjwatson> mjg59: great, thanks
[08:27] <mjg59> cjwatson: I've mailed it to parted-devel, waiting for feedback from that
[08:27] <cjwatson> mjg59: now the last urgent partitioning item for feisty is to make partman able to resize ext3 with resize_inode despite it being hideously hard to implement in libparted
[08:28] <pochu> tepsipakki: no, the resolution is well configured, (1280x800), but it's displayed ugly
[08:28] <pochu> as if it would be displaying a 1280x600, so the Y res is aumented
[08:30] <seb128> Mithrandir: have you planned to unfreeze the archive today?
[08:34] <pochu> geser, tepsipakki & co: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/modesetting.jpg
[08:41] <geser> pochu: I still don't see any problem
[08:42] <pochu> geser: don't you see larger the ubuntu icon?
[08:42] <pochu> geser: and the fonts?
[08:44] <geser> look also normal to me
[08:51] <lemsx1> is it just me but Feisty seems to double the swap space... i have a 2GB partition set for swap and it looks in top like 4GB. i use swapoff -a and swapon -a and it shows as 2GB (like it should)
[08:51] <lemsx1> perhaps the swap partition is being mounted twice??
[08:52] <doko> pitti, seb128, Mithrandir: did you promote python-qt3-gl to main? if yes, then pyopengl needs to be promoted as well
[09:06] <jcole> who maintains the vmplayer ubuntu package?
[09:35] <pochu> geser, tepsipakki: I hope you can find the difference with this: this is me, with the modesetting: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/photo2.jpg, and this is me without it: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/acerca-de-pochu/
[09:44] <Treenaks> pochu: lots of moire!
[09:51] <crimsun> pochu: what happens after you ctrl+alt+F# then alt+F7 ?
[09:54] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes
[09:56] <G0SUB> Seveas: ping
[09:56] <Seveas> G0SUB, ?
[09:56] <pochu> crimsun: let's see
[09:56] <G0SUB> Seveas: can you kindly send Ubugtu to #ubuntu-in ?
[09:57] <Seveas> no
[09:57] <G0SUB> Seveas: we need its help some times
[09:57] <pochu> crimsun: same
[09:57] <G0SUB> Seveas: why?
[09:57] <Seveas> the bots are in too many channels already
[09:57] <Seveas> you can easily grab its code and host your own bot
[09:57] <G0SUB> Seveas: hmm. fine. where is it?
[09:57] <Seveas> !code
[09:58] <Seveas> hehm ubotu not in here :)
[09:58] <Seveas> anyway, bots.ubuntulinux.nl
[09:58] <G0SUB> ok
[09:58] <G0SUB> Seveas: thanks
[09:59] <crimsun> pochu: did you rebuild from experimental's source package?
[09:59] <G0SUB> Seveas: http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/code/ gives me 403
[10:00] <Seveas> G0SUB, odd
[10:00] <pochu> crimsun: no, I downloaded your package
[10:00] <Seveas> try launchpad, ubuntu-bots product
[10:00] <G0SUB> Seveas: ok
[10:01] <crimsun> pochu: please pbuild it; that version was compiled against older xserver-xorg-dev
[10:01] <pochu> crimsun: ok, could you give me the link again? :)
[10:01] <crimsun> pochu: adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/
[10:01] <crimsun> pochu: if in doubt, check the upstream git branch, too.
[10:02] <pochu> crimsun: it isn't there
[10:03] <crimsun> err, sorry. tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun
[10:03] <pochu> crimsun: http://revu.tauware.de/~crimsun/
[10:03] <pochu> err, they're the same :)
[10:15] <Mithrandir> mvo: is upgradetestingprocess complete and the archive can be unfrozen?
[10:16] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/ looks good
[10:16] <Mithrandir> mvo: thanks.
[10:27] <pochu> crimsun: done, going to restart
[10:29] <pochu> crimsun: same :(
[10:29] <pochu> crimsun: built with pbuilder up-to-date
[10:29] <pochu> tepsipakki: ^^
[10:30] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: just let your large amount of changes through.  Great work. :-)
[10:31] <pochu> sure, this is just the -modesetting driver, which isn't stable yet. The -i810 works fine (without the good resolution, but that also happened before the update)
[10:40] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: thank seb128 and kylem for reviewing ;)
[10:42] <tepsipakki> pochu: I still don't see the picture as too wide, looks good to me :/
[10:43] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: was this the rest of the bits needed?
[10:43] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: yes, there are some minor updates to the utils though
[10:44] <Mithrandir> ok, coolie
[10:48] <netstar> what the heck happened to the PowerPC release? Why was it dropped?
[10:51] <Seveas> netstar, that's all in the announcement...
[10:51] <netstar> which one?
[10:52] <Seveas> the one that said that PowerPC would be downgraded from official to community-supported
[10:52] <netstar> where does one get it from?
[10:54] <crimsun> pochu: then it's likely an issue to be addressed (or is in progress in upstream's git branch)
[10:54] <Seveas> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2007-February/000098.html
[10:57] <netstar> SPARC is more dead than POWER
[10:57] <netstar> insane
[10:58] <Mithrandir> netstar: powerpc is in ports, though.
[11:01] <cjwatson> we'd definitely welcome more development effort on powerpc ...
[11:01] <cjwatson> from interested folks
[11:02] <netstar> I think I'd be more interested in keeping the debian powerpc port alive
[11:02] <netstar> sigh
[11:02] <cjwatson> well, the Ubuntu powerpc port has the same status as the Debian one :-)
[11:03] <cjwatson> neither is corporately supported
[11:03] <cjwatson> that's really the only difference
[11:03] <cjwatson> we're not going to stop building it at all, if nothing else 'cos I have a powerpc laptop ... ;-)
[11:04] <jcole> netstar: i usually install via debian installer myself (mini.iso) -> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/
[11:05] <cjwatson> the powerpc CDs haven't gone away: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/
[11:07] <netstar> :/
[11:07] <Mithrandir> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/herd-5/ for the just-released herd 5
[11:08] <Mithrandir> oh well, I'm off to bed.  See you around later.
[11:08] <jcole> netstar: you think you feel unsupported, i'm running ubuntu on hppa :P
[11:08] <netstar> lol
[11:29] <toodles> Just wanted to mention that widescreens that have a native resolution of 1440x900 and intel g945 don't work at all with i810 - X fails to start at all. The current modesetting driver allows X to start, but screen is always blank. I've also tried the modesetting driver at http://revu.tauware.de/~crimsun/ which had the same effect. For this reason, would it not be better to promote 915resolution to main for feisty. As it is (for the compi
[11:29] <toodles> nation I just mentioned), the live cd (edgy or herd5) does not work at all (X fails), and the alternate install requires 915resolution to be installed from commandline before X starts.
[11:30] <toodles> s/compination/combination
[11:35] <toodles> The bugs at http://bugs.debian.org/915resolution don't seem relevant issues to not promote it. What are the developer opinions on this? Is there anything that speaks against this? If the i810-modesetting driver is considered so unstable, then it seems like a good idea to use 915resolution to me.
[11:36] <toodles> If nobody as any objections, I'd fill out an MIR. :-)
[11:36] <pochu> toodles: have you filed a bug in freedesktop?
[11:37] <toodles> No, just on launchpad. 1 sec
[11:39] <toodles> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/62002 is a bug about edgy, but it is the same problem. From what I can see, this as always been an issue.
[11:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62002 in xorg "Installer X server startup fails" [High,Confirmed]
[11:41] <toodles> pochu: I just checked, this bug has been reported on freedesktop. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9076
[11:41] <Ubugtu> Freedesktop bug 9076 in Driver/i810 "i810 modesetting: 1440x900 panel setup fails" [Normal,New]
[11:42] <pochu> toodles: you also have Bug #82189
[11:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82189 in xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting "Using xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting results in a blank screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82189
[11:43] <toodles> pochu: I completely forgot about that!! I reported that one myself :-P
[11:43] <pochu> toodles: :)
[11:44] <pochu> toodles: does the normal i810 (not the modesetting) driver works for you?
[11:44] <toodles> pochu: No. X Fails completely, no matter what resolution or settings I try. It only works after 915resolution is installed.
[11:45] <pochu> toodles: even with x.org 7.2?
[11:45] <toodles> pochu: It effectivly makes ubuntu not work out of the box, not matter how it's installed.
[11:45] <toodles> pochu: Yes. I'm using herd 5 as we speak.
[11:46] <pochu> tepsipakki: oh, it isn't supposed to be too wide, but too height :)
[11:46] <pochu> tepsipakki: believe me, it *is* :)
[11:47] <toodles> pochu: The funny thing is, usplash nearly displays correctly. It's a bit squashed from top to bottom, but it displays. It makes it seem strange that X then fails.
[11:48] <pochu> toodles: do you have an x.log?
[11:48] <toodles> pochu: Of it failing?
[11:48] <pochu> toodles: yes
[11:49] <toodles> pochu: Give me a few minutes to remove 915resolution and restart X. I'll get it for you. Back in a few :-)
[11:49] <pochu> toodles: ok :)
[11:55] <toodles> pochu: I'm back :-) The x.log here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8285/
[11:56] <pochu> toodles: looking
[11:56] <pochu> but sure tepsipakki will know a lot better than me :)
[11:57] <pochu> toodles: (EE) I810(0): No Video BIOS modes for chosen depth.
[11:57] <toodles> pochu: I really appreciate you looking :-) I would do what I can to get this fixed, so if there's anything I can do or read up on that might help, please let me know!!
[11:58] <toodles> pochu: Want me to try with 1024x768?
[11:58] <pochu> toodles: sure
[11:58] <pochu> toodles: what is your exact laptop?
[11:58] <toodles> Dell Insporon 640m
[11:59] <toodles> pochu: I have a friend who has the same laptop, but his native resolution is 1280x800 - his one works out of the box at 1024x768 and he can install from the live cd.
[12:00] <toodles> pochu: Hence I came to believe that this only affects people with wide screens and a resolution of 1440x900 or higher.
[12:00] <pochu> toodles: have you seen this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron640m
[12:00] <sladen> toodles: can you take a photo of it (with a digital camera) and file a bug report with it attached
[12:00] <toodles> pochu: No
[12:00] <pochu> toodles: if he has the same laptop, why he has 1280*800 and you have 1440*900?
[12:00] <toodles> pochu: Of course I can
[12:00] <pochu> toodles: take a look ;)
[12:01] <pochu> toodles: you wanted to say sladen right?
[12:01] <toodles> pochu: I will. What? What is sladen?
[12:01] <pochu> sladen: hello!
[12:02] <toodles> pochu: Dell offer two different screeens with this model laptop. One has a higher resolution.
[12:02] <pochu> toodles: oh, now I understand :)
[12:02] <sladen> pochu: hello
[12:02] <pochu> toodles: like acer and my laptop :)
[12:02] <toodles> pochu: Your acer also has 1440x900?
[12:03] <pochu> toodles: 1280*800 :)
[12:03] <toodles> pochu: Ah, ok. I've seen the pictures you posted with the off resolution.
[12:03] <pochu> toodles: it works out of the box with i810, and works with modesetting, though I have a problem with this one
[12:03] <pochu> toodles: yeah, I have to file a bug upstream
[12:04] <toodles> pochu: Yes, I've seen many people have success with both i810 and the modesetting driver but their resolution was always less than 1440x900.
[12:05] <toodles> pochu: If you would still like me to try again with 1024x768, I will do it now.
[12:05] <pochu> then I'm not in that group :(
[12:05] <pochu> toodles: yes, and let's see if then it works :)
[12:06] <toodles> sladen: Sorry, I missed your message earlier. I will make a quick video of the process, and take a picture for you to see.
[12:07] <toodles> pochu: sladen: Have to make a phone call first, so I might need an hour. :-P Hope that's ok with you.
[12:08] <pochu> toodles: then I probably won't be here, but there are a lot of people who can help you much better than me :)
[12:10] <toodles> pochu: Ok. Thank you for all your help! Have a nice evening :-)
[12:10] <pochu> toodles: night here :)
[12:10] <toodles> pochu: :-)
[12:10] <pochu> toodles: same for you, and I hope you can fix your problem soon!
[12:11] <toodles> pochu: Thank you!


[00:05] <wyoung> hey, can I please join #ubuntu?
[00:05] <bazhang> wyoung, hi
[00:09] <wyoung> hey bazhang
[00:09] <wyoung> How are you?
[00:10] <bazhang> wyoung, when directed to offtopic, you responded saying such direction was offtopic itself
[00:11] <wyoung> Yes, I believe that was what earnt me the kick ban, my apologies
[00:11] <bazhang> wyoung, in future, when directed to stay ontopic, please do so
[00:12] <wyoung> You got it!
[00:13] <bazhang> please try now wyoung
[00:14] <wyoung> woot!
[00:14] <wyoung> Thank you!
[06:44] <Myrtti> that might have been a bit too wide, if anyone fancies narrowing it down (I'm on my mobile) you're welcome to it
[06:49] <dax> mhm. half of Comcast is static, half is quite dynamic. I wonder which half this one is.
[06:49] <dax> @comment 72536 racial trolling, did not stop when asked, 60d
[06:51] <Myrtti> Yeah, one of the reasons I mentioned 'if'. Will see how it goes
[08:39] <bazhang> gone
[12:50] <k1l_> !guidelines > twelveheaded
[14:05] <nixoeen> Hey, anyone has access to edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList? The contact person of #ubuntu-ir should be changed there.