[08:28] <sibble> Hi
[08:34] <sibble> I use DropBox, because with referrals I have 10GB free an dit works on My Mac, my Ubuntu laptopa and my client's windows machines. There are other rsync based opensource products that are java based that work in user space and are platform agnostic, Ubuntu needs to take direction from them to gain more acceptance than things like drop box.
[09:48] <duanedesign> i have not bought this many songs so I can not test this. Has anyone come across this before? bug 611091
[09:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 611091 in rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store "can not see first 5 pages of downloads (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611091
[10:06] <aquarius> haven't come across it, but it's a known bug. I'll try and find the duplicate
[10:13] <duanedesign> ok, thanks aquarius.
[10:23] <mvo> aquarius: I'm playing with the oneconf stuff from didrocks currently, but my log keeps showing me ServerError: (502, '') - is my machine in some sort of blacklist?
[10:24] <aquarius> mvo, replication is disabled for a big block of users while we work on the scaling stuff
[10:24] <aquarius> thisfred knows the details, when he arrives (he's in the US)
[10:27] <mvo> aquarius: ok, thanks, I will ask him when he appears
[10:35] <vds> ping mandel
[10:35] <mandel> vds, pong
[10:35] <mandel> vds, morning!
[10:36] <vds> mandel: good morning, I'm not here, you are not talking to me! :D I read your comment on the branch
[10:36] <mandel> vds, :P
[10:36] <mandel> vds, I just want a comment so that we remember that is all hehe
[10:36] <vds> mandel: my comment is wrong I think I get what you mean
[10:37] <vds> now we can either merge that branch like it is and use it for tests
[10:37] <vds> it should work I think
[10:37] <vds> and I fix it later
[10:37] <mkarnicki> verterok: hey verterok ! unlink(volume, node); deletes the 'node' folder from U1, is that correct?
[10:37] <vds> mandel: or I can fix it later today as it should not take too much
[10:37] <mandel> vds, as you think is best
[10:38] <mandel> vds, you are on holidays, so dont work!
[10:38] <vds> mandel: that's not a big issue :)
[10:38] <vds> mandel: is that problem blocking you? if so I can spare some time to fix it, np! :)
[10:38] <mandel> vds, I'm not block, dont worry
[10:39] <vds> ok
[10:39] <vds> cool
[10:39] <mandel> vds, I'm working on the python/c# interaction, so no issues
[10:39] <mandel> vds, I have plenty to have fun with ;)
[10:39] <vds> mandel: how's going? :)
[10:40] <mandel> vds, fine, I'm now tyding the notification icon with service interaction, as soon as that is tested I'll move to twister
[10:40] <mandel> vds, I should be able to make it work with pipes as if it was reacting to changes in a file.. I need to test though
[10:40] <mandel> vds, lets say is a POC :P
[10:42] <vds> :)
[11:35] <mandel> I  need to sort out some paper work at the back, will be back asap
[11:58] <hotstew> hello
[11:58] <hotstew> can someone help me with Ubuntu one?
[11:59] <hotstew> what do I have to do to sync folders with Ubuntu One?
[12:00] <rye> hotstew, hi, what distribution and version are you running?
[12:00] <hotstew> Ubuntu 10.04
[12:00] <hotstew> under gnome
[12:02] <rye> hotstew, ok, so you will need to open Ubuntu One preferences from MeMenu (the menu with your nick), the browser will be opened to associate your machine with the service, you will have Ubuntu One folder created automatically and then synchronization daemon (ubuntuone-syncdaemon) will be started
[12:02] <hotstew> is the MeMenu the one in the panel?
[12:04] <hotstew> just a sec
[12:04] <hotstew> I have to install Ubuntu one
[12:08] <hotstew> Do I have to put the folder into the Ubuntu One folder to sync? Or can I just sync it from it's original location?
[12:14] <aquarius> hotstew, you can sync a folder from its original location (right click on the folder, Synchronise on Ubuntu One)
[12:15] <hotstew> hmm, but that option doesn't show up
[12:15] <hotstew> maybe because it's an external hard drive
[12:16] <aquarius> ah, yes. You can only sync folders in your home folder.
[12:21] <hotstew> strange, I made a new folder in my home folder and want sync it
[12:21] <hotstew> but all the files just a some kind of grey refresh symbol and it doesn't upload
[12:25] <hotstew> Ah, it started.
[12:25] <hotstew> Very slowly. XD
[12:25] <hotstew> Alright, problem solved! Thanks a lot!
[12:26] <hotstew> This is a pretty interesting service.
[12:26] <hotstew> A lot of the times this kind of service is made by dubious folks, hurray for Ubuntu :3
[12:27] <aquarius> hotstew, thanks :)
[12:28] <rye> hotstew, well, I am also pretty confident with placing my own files to the service given the fact that the technology that is used here is known, so while it is a black box for end users, it is not that black really :)
[12:30] <hotstew> yeah, I'm not saying that Ubuntu One is dubious
[12:31] <hotstew> it's pretty interesting they've gone this way together with the music store
[12:31] <hotstew> guess it's like the second layer of user experience
[12:32] <hotstew> though I still wonder how it's all financed o.O"
[12:34] <hotstew> I still have a cd with Ubuntu 4.10, it's certainly gone a long way
[12:34] <rye> hm, maybe we should implement 'undelete' for contacts/notes stored in couchdb?
[12:35] <rye> hotstew, btw, were you able to associate your machine with the service?
[12:35] <hotstew> yes it's uploading the files right now
[12:37] <hotstew> I wonder why xbmc is not in the ubuntu repositories.
[12:37] <hotstew> It's the most capable video player I found on Linux
[12:38] <dutchie> hi, i seem to be seeing duplication between ~/.ubuntuone and ~/.local/share/ubuntuone
[12:38] <dutchie> as in, the songs i bought from the u1ms are in both dirs
[12:39] <hotstew> what exactly does the Ubuntu One folder in my home folder do?
[12:41] <rye> hotstew, it is the default "root" for synchronization. You can now use any folder within $HOME to be synced with ubuntu one but "Ubuntu One" folder is the one that will be always present.
[12:42] <rye> dutchie, ~/.local/share/ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One is a symlink to ~/.ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One. aquarius why is that btw?
[12:42] <dutchie> it's making everything show up twice in banshee :(
[12:43] <aquarius> rye, it's a symlink because the purchased-music folder is created on the server. The server can't know where your XDG folders are, so it creates the purchased-music folder in a known stable location (~/.ubuntuone), and then Rhythmbox adds the symlink (so you can get at the folder from your XDG folders, the logical place to find it).
[12:44] <rye> aquarius, aha, so e.g. Banshee should not scan ~/.ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One folder, it should use ~/.local/share/ubuntuone/... symlink
[12:45] <aquarius> it should scan one or the other, but not both.
[12:56] <dutchie> cheers then
[13:27] <Chipaca> if my network conditions continue like this, today's standup is via IRC
[13:45] <verterok> mkarnicki: unlink only delete empty directories and files
[13:46] <mkarnicki> verterok: to delete a folder I should call that recursively for any non-empty folder?
[13:46] <verterok> mkarnicki: yes
[13:47] <mkarnicki> verterok: got it. thanks. I'll ping you soon on listShares() usage, I guess it's similar to listVolumes()
[13:48] <verterok> mkarnicki: listShares returns no-yet-accepted-shares
[13:48] <mkarnicki> verterok: oh.. so I use listVolumes to retrieve shared folders too? (I mean, UDF's)
[13:48] <mkarnicki> tfu I'm confusing, sorry
[13:48] <mkarnicki> verterok: how do I retrieve UDFs ?
[13:50] <mkarnicki> verterok: I looked at the code, and processMessage was checking the type of message, .ROOT, .VOLUMES and .SHARES if I'm not mistaken
[13:51] <verterok> mkarnicki: UDF isn't a "shared" folder
[13:51] <mkarnicki> I know, I meant UDFs, sorry
[13:51] <verterok> mkarnicki: udfs are included in listVolumes
[13:51] <mkarnicki> .UDF instead of.SHARES I guess :D
[13:51] <mkarnicki> oh, are they?
[13:51] <mkarnicki> great
[13:53] <verterok> mkarnicki: listVolumes includes: root, UDFs, accepted Shares
[13:53] <mkarnicki> \o/
[13:53] <verterok> mkarnicki: yes, listVolumes might have a bug or two
[13:53] <verterok> :)
[13:54] <mkarnicki> verterok: no worries, I try to figure it out today/tomorrow
[13:54] <mkarnicki> verterok: I'm working on my service connectivity right now :)
[13:54] <mkarnicki> *I'll
[13:54] <verterok> mkarnicki: ok
[13:55] <verterok> mkarnicki: I saw your mail, but wasn't able to take a deep look at Java's socket stuff
[13:55] <mkarnicki> verterok: I should workaround that, I'll be receving 'disconnected' events from Android
[13:55] <mkarnicki> verterok: so maybe there won't be need to further investigate that broken pipe
[13:56] <mkarnicki> it's not a workaround actually.. it's the way I should implement that :)
[13:56] <verterok> k
[13:56] <mkarnicki> verterok: when I'll get such event, I'll explicitely call .disconnect() and that should clean up that lost connection
[14:00] <Chipaca> Ubuntu One Desktop+ standup starting! say "me" to grab a spot
[14:01] <Chipaca> ... this is going to be a short standup
[14:03] <Chipaca> alecu: CardinalFang: rmcbride: rodrigo_: thisfred: vds: ping
[14:03] <alecu> pong
[14:03] <alecu> Chipaca, irc?
[14:03] <rodrigo_> Chipaca, pong
[14:03] <CardinalFang> Chipaca, hi hi.
[14:03] <Chipaca> today, yes: network trouble monday :)
[14:03] <rmcbride> Chipaca: already logged in
[14:03] <CardinalFang> me
[14:03] <rmcbride> Chipaca: me
[14:03] <rmcbride> ah so no mumble OK
[14:04] <rodrigo_> me
[14:04] <Chipaca> rmcbride: sorry :)
[14:04] <rmcbride> Chipaca: no worries.
[14:05] <thisfred> oh me
[14:05] <Chipaca> nessita is not going to make it
[14:05] <Chipaca> mandel: say "me" :)
[14:05] <Chipaca> CardinalFang: go!
[14:05] <mandel> me
[14:06] <alecu> me
[14:06] <CardinalFang> DONE: some work on ubuntu-sso-client network retries.
[14:06] <CardinalFang> TODO: figure out what's left and finish it.
[14:06] <CardinalFang> BLOCKED: None
[14:06] <rmcbride> hmm. tomboy dies on init again
[14:06] <rmcbride> DONE: Day off
[14:06] <rmcbride> TODO: Fix Nightlies
[14:06] <rmcbride> BLOCKED: Don't believe so.
[14:07] <rmcbride> next: rodrigo_
[14:07] <rodrigo_> DONE: lots of phone calls on Friday afternoon. Discussed ubuntu-sso API with alecu and nessita. More network detection code for nautilus plugin. Default to Read/write shares in Nautilus plugin
[14:08] <rodrigo_> TODO: more ubuntu-sso. Finish networking detection code
[14:08] <rodrigo_> not BLOCKED
[14:08] <rodrigo_> thisfred, go
[14:08] <thisfred> DONE: Got migration script working on staging TODO: change js dependencies in couchdb 1.0 for CAT so we don't pull in all of X | test full migration on staging | migrate production BLOCKED: mebbe: I don't really know how to package couch so that it depends on libmozjs rather than xulrunner, but I intend to find out. that is all.
[14:08] <Chipaca> CardinalFang: talk with rodrigo_ for figuring out
[14:08] <Chipaca> rodrigo_: yay :) now I have to bug beuno about unification
[14:08] <thisfred> mandel: you!
[14:08] <CardinalFang> Chipaca, roger.
[14:08] <mandel> DONE: implemented NotificationIconPresenter. POC with twistted and name pipes
[14:08] <mandel> TODO: increase AOP unit tests, auto generate docs, make sure twistted and named pipes is possible
[14:09] <mandel> BLOCKED: No, but I need reviews :D
[14:09] <mandel> alecu, go
[14:09] <alecu> DONE: while learning DBus, I found a problem with (and a possible solution to) the way we are sending Signals in Ubuntu-SSO.
[14:09] <alecu> TODO: agree on the solution with nessita and rodrigo. Code it.
[14:09] <alecu> BLOCKED: no
 me
[14:09] <alecu> eom?
[14:09] <alecu> nessita: go
 DONE: Added "reset password" screen to SSO GUI. Reviewed alecu's branch with improved dbus API for SSO.
  TODO: If dbus backend is ready, merge that with the GUI frontend. Extend ubuntuone-preferences so the first screen is the one from the design if user has no credentials.
  BLOCKED: nopes
[14:10] <Chipaca> thisfred: the finding out should involve other people, not just reading, right?
[14:11] <Chipaca> alecu: we're on Monday. If it's not a critical issue (affecting the definition of the feature), file a bug and get back to it after tomorrow :)
[14:12] <rodrigo_> thisfred, debian packages have something called 'provides' or something like that, so maybe the JS libs have the same 'provides' and thus you can just depend on what they provide, not on the specific JS lib implementation
[14:12] <mandel> Chipaca, are we done, I need to restart to get back to work :P
[14:13] <alecu> Chipaca, it's a problem in the api definition. We are currently sending all reply signals on the main DBus object. That means that if two apps ask for credentials at the same time, they won't be able to tell which signal is the return value for each app.
[14:14] <alecu> Chipaca, so, it will work as it is now, but we'll have to change/break the api for beta. Does that sound reasonable?
[14:14] <alecu> rodrigo_, ^^
[14:14] <rodrigo_> alecu, well, the signals should not really be a return from the method call, but a notification of what happened (UserRegistered, CredentialsRetrieved, etc)
[14:14] <Chipaca> EOM, btw :)
[14:15] <mandel> Chipaca, I was waiting for that :D
[14:15] <mandel> brb, rebooting to W
[14:15] <Chipaca> mandel: I know, that's why I said it :)
[14:15] <alecu> rodrigo_, right, but we are using them as return values anyway for blocking methods
[14:15] <thisfred> Chipaca: I am starting with comparing the debian/control and patches, it may be really simple. If I have the slightest inkling that it;s not simple I will bug people for help
[14:15] <thisfred> rodrigo_: ^
[14:16] <mandel> brb
[14:16] <Chipaca> thisfred: there are a lot of people that have gone through that transition, at least per discussion at uds, which is why I said talk with people
[14:16] <Chipaca> thisfred: just not on our immediate team
[14:16] <thisfred> Chipaca: yeah, but we had it working in couchdb 0.10 for hardy
[14:16] <alecu> rodrigo_, so I believe we should add a first step that means getting an instance of the login processor, then asking for the methods and receiving the signals on *that* object
[14:17] <thisfred> Chipaca: so I just want to look for a few minutes if it's really simple
[14:17] <thisfred> ch if not, I will ask for help, I won't get stuck in it
[14:17] <Chipaca> thisfred: oh, ok
[14:17] <thisfred> Chipaca:
[14:17]  * Chipaca should change his nick to "ch"
[14:20] <thisfred> Chipaca: and I think I may have solved it
[14:20] <thisfred> rebuilding
[14:21] <Chipaca> thisfred: y-ay
[14:49] <rodrigo_> alecu, again, we should not use the signals as real reply handlers, but about notifications, so we can signal when a user is registered including the user name, so that apps can just check if that's the user they started the registration for
[15:35] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: have you ever registered BroadcastReceiver from the code?
[15:36] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, Hrm.  Not sure.  Give me some context for what you're asking.
[15:37] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: this is my onCreate for the service: http://paste.ubuntu.com/472223/
[15:37] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: NetworkObserver extends BroadcastReceiver
[15:38] <mkarnicki> and «this» is the Service implementing INetworkListener (just few callbacks that the BroadcastReceiver is supposed to call on network events)
[15:38] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: I also tried more basic constructor registerReceiver(mNetworkObserver, intentFilter);
[15:38] <CardinalFang> (You and your fancy guilemmots!)
[15:38] <mkarnicki> ^_^
[15:39] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: I don't want to take your time.
[15:39] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: it's just that I did use receiver, but from the manifest file. that one from the code doesn't seem to catch those events
[15:41] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, Ah. I've only set up receivers from the Manifest too.  I'd instrument the hell out of it and watch the logs first, FWIW.
[15:42] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: gotta leave for 20 min. ah ok, good idea. I'll add more output.
[15:42] <mkarnicki> later! :)
[15:55] <mvo> thisfred: hi, is there a way to figure out if coucdb sync are currently disabled for me? I'm testing oneconf (the software-center integration bits) on maverick and it seems to not sync, I keep seeing502 in the logs
[15:56] <thisfred> mvo: I think there is, let me look
[15:56] <hotstew> Ubuntu guys are the best XD
[15:56] <hotstew> I was saved from reinstalling Ubuntu
[15:57] <mvo> thisfred: my login is michael.vogt(at)ubuntu.com (if that helps :)
[15:57] <hotstew> I wanted to ask, how do I delete a folder on Ubuntu One?
[15:57] <hotstew> oh, are you German? :3
[15:59] <hotstew> And btw, are certain files forbidden to be uploaded on Ubuntu One?
[16:01] <thisfred> aquarius: can the ubuntuone-couchdb-query tool be used to find out one's user account id?
[16:02] <duanedesign> hello hotstew
[16:02] <thisfred> aquarius: second sub-question: does it work at all, currently? :)
[16:02] <hotstew> hello :3
[16:03] <thisfred> aquarius: for me it gives either unauthorized immediately, or it seems to hang forever. Maybe I'm calling it wrong
[16:03] <aquarius> thisfred, no, it can't (well, it can if you yank the code out of it that hits /api/account)
[16:03] <dobey> hotstew: depending on what you mean by "certain files" the answer is maybe. read the terms of service, and the various laws you must abide by across the planet :)
[16:03] <thisfred> aquarius: so it won't respond with say the full url of a db ever?
[16:03] <aquarius> thisfred, pass --http-signature-method=PLAINTEXT and then it either works or hangs forever. I have this on my list to talk to you about.
[16:04] <dobey> hotstew: and if you're still not sure, ask your lawyer i guess :)
[16:04] <aquarius> (the hang-forever seems to be ssl weirdness. I thought it was only happening to me.)
[16:04] <rye> hotstew, there is a list of file patterns that client does not upload, mostly temporary files, other than that no restriction is imposed by the software
[16:04] <thisfred> aquarius: I think you mentioned it. Yet web_api_tool works for me always, and I think that uses H-SMACK
[16:05] <thisfred> ah no it does not by default
[16:05] <aquarius> thisfred, exactly; this is why I want to talk to you about it :) But I've been loath to pull you away from your current work
[16:05] <dobey> hotstew: and there are plenty of files that aren't necessarily forbidden from being uploaded, but which i wouldn't recommend putting there
[16:06] <hotstew> hmm, so uploading my naked pictures is not good? :(
[16:07] <thisfred> aquarius: ah, it does return the full db name
[16:07] <hotstew> no actually I was just wondering if I could back up my music
[16:07] <hotstew> which seems to be the case
[16:07] <thisfred> mvo:, please download this script: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch/Documentation/Troubleshooting?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntuone-couchdb-query
[16:07] <hotstew> and by my music I mean the music I made
[16:07] <thisfred> mvo, and then run it like so:
[16:07] <thisfred> ./ubuntuone-couchdb-query --oauth-signature-method=PLAINTEXT contacts
[16:08] <hotstew> yeah, and the second question was how to delete uploaded folders
[16:08] <thisfred> mvo, this will return a json string, and in that you will see a 'db_name': something
[16:09] <thisfred> mvo: you might have to run it a few times though
[16:09] <thisfred> we currently have quite severely limited the number of incoming connections
[16:10] <thisfred> mvo, also if you can't get it to work at all, that means you're not one of the lucky ones.
[16:15] <hotstew> ummm, in the web interface a "synched folder" shows up
[16:15] <hotstew> thing is I deleted it and the web interface doesn't show me the option of deleting the uploaded files
[16:16] <hotstew> but it does for the files I put in the Ubuntu One folder
[16:17] <mvo> thisfred: long wait, 502 then :/
[16:18] <thisfred> mvo: it should return pretty fast when you're allowed through, so ctrl-C it when it doesn't return instantly and try a few more times.
[16:18] <hotstew> if anybody from the Ubuntu One folks listens:
[16:19] <hotstew> Ubuntu One doesn't give me the option of deleting synced folders and I also can't upload folders or more than one files over the web interface.
[16:19] <thisfred> mvo: I'm not 100% sure, but I think it returns a 503 when your account is not opened up yet
[16:21] <duanedesign> hotstew: you could delete user designated folders from the command line with the u1sdtool.
[16:22] <hotstew> alright
[16:22] <hotstew> oh, it's beta?
[16:22] <duanedesign> hotstew: to get a list of the folders run the command: u1sdtool --list-folders
[16:22] <mvo> thisfred: ha! now I got a result
[16:23] <duanedesign> hotstew: you will need the ID number of the folder you want to delete from the server
[16:23] <thisfred> mvo: depending on what that result is, I think you probably are in the lucky category
[16:23] <mvo> thisfred: I see a db name now (after some attempts). so I'm a luck yone?
[16:23] <thisfred> yep
[16:23] <mvo> thisfred: makes me wonder why my oneconf sync seems to not work
[16:24] <hotstew> but I already deleted that folder
[16:24] <thisfred> mvo: we're working hard to increase the limits
[16:24] <hotstew> is it the same I make a new folder in the same place with the same name?
[16:24] <mvo> thisfred: aha, ok. thanks
[16:24] <duanedesign> hotstew: so it doesnt show up when you run u1sdtool --list-folders?
[16:25] <hotstew> u1sdtool --list-folders
[16:25] <hotstew> wait
[16:25] <hotstew> Folder list:
[16:25] <hotstew>   id=b29ec016-36da-4907-85be-b325e111eb1a subscribed= path=/home/simi/sync
[16:25] <duanedesign> hotstew: and that is the folder you wish to delete?
[16:26] <hotstew> yes
[16:26] <duanedesign> hotstew: if it is run the command:   u1sdtool --delete-folder=b29ec016-36da-4907-85be-b325e111eb1a
[16:26] <hotstew> because I found that the Ubuntu One folder autosyncs XD
[16:26] <hotstew> does u1 stand for Ubuntu One?
[16:26] <duanedesign> hotstew: it will remain on your HD, just removed from one.ubuntu.com/files
[16:27] <duanedesign> hotstew: yes. Some people try to run ulsdtool instead of u1ssdtool :)
[16:28] <hotstew> it worked, you must be some kind of wizard
[16:29] <hotstew> the GUI Ubuntu One program still shows the old size though
[16:29] <hotstew> not that it matters much
[16:30] <duanedesign> hotstew: does it if you close the Preferences window and then open it again?
[16:31] <hotstew> now it shows the right size
[16:31] <hotstew> as I said you're a wizard
[16:32] <hotstew> I'm like a caveman and you zip aroud me with a Segway
[16:32] <duanedesign> :)
[16:33] <hotstew> tell me great one, is there a way to upload folders or multiple files over the web interface?
[16:35] <hotstew> apparently not
[16:36] <duanedesign> hotstew: this is the bug report on the free space value not updating until you reopen the preferences
[16:36] <duanedesign> bug 554185
[16:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 554185 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One Preferences app field values should update periodically (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554185
[16:36] <hotstew> okay
[16:36] <duanedesign> hotstew: if you have a second could you click on the ' This bug affects 3 people. Does this bug affect you?'
[16:37] <duanedesign> lets the developers have an idea of the nnumer of people affected. :)
[16:37] <hotstew> where do I find that?
[16:37] <duanedesign> hotstew: currently on the web interface you can not upload multiple files and folders
[16:37] <duanedesign> hotstew: it is at the top left
[16:37] <hotstew> yeah, but where can I find the "This bug affects 3 people...
[16:38] <duanedesign> hotstew: its the top of the page right under the title of the bug
[16:39] <hotstew> sorry I normally don't do bug reports
[16:40] <hotstew> so I have to go to Launchpad
[16:40] <duanedesign> hotstew: it is at the top of this page:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/554185
[16:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 554185 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One Preferences app field values should update periodically (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:41] <hotstew> alright
[16:43] <hotstew> okay
[16:43] <hotstew> now I've got it
[16:45] <hotstew> yeah, but I don't even have a Launchpad account
[16:45] <hotstew> what is Launchpad anyway?
[16:45] <hotstew> a lot of external repositories come from there oO
[16:49] <hotstew> see you guys later
[18:28] <mkarnicki> aquarius: nessita has been really helpful, I've got what I need for browserless authentication.
[18:28] <mkarnicki> aquarius: you know achuni?
[18:29] <aquarius> I do
[18:29] <mkarnicki> aquarius: does he/she appear on irc? how can I contact that person?
[18:30] <mkarnicki> aquarius: ahh, nessita told me he appears on IRC
[18:30] <aquarius> he, and I don't know if he hangs out on freenode, but I imagine he does
[18:30] <aquarius> (he's online now, in fact)
[18:30] <mkarnicki> brb phone call
[18:40] <mkarnicki> aquarius: right :) I've been only looking at #ubuntuone and #ubuntu-dev for him. thanks
[18:49] <mkarnicki> aquarius: cool, talked to achuni. got another pointer. I'll get my late lunch now. later!
[20:02] <simplr> !join #linuxoutlaws
[20:02] <ubot4> simplr: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[20:03] <beuno> simplr, also, please don't spam
[20:04] <mkarnicki> hi beuno
[20:05] <beuno> hiya mkarnicki
[20:06] <mkarnicki> beuno: I talked to aquarius, nessita and achuni, and collected material and hints for using new auth API
[20:06] <nessita> mkarnicki: yey@
[20:06] <beuno> mkarnicki, great news. How's it looking?
[20:07] <mkarnicki> beuno: looks interesting :) however, I'll have to either find Java wadl client to use, or port part of lazr.restful to Java.
[20:07] <mkarnicki> beuno: hmm.. I'll also need those WADL files. probably I'll find them under lazr project
[20:08] <beuno> yeah
[20:08] <mkarnicki> beuno: did aq poke you about approach to auth on Android <2.0 ? we won't be able to use AccountManager there.
[20:09] <beuno> mkarnicki, he did
[20:09] <mkarnicki> beuno: any news/opinions?
[20:09] <beuno> mkarnicki, he proposed something
[20:09] <beuno> storing it in an all-user accesible folder
[20:10] <beuno> for previous versions
[20:10] <mkarnicki> I think there's even a better way
[20:10] <mkarnicki> since the app developer will have to declare sso activity in the manifest
[20:11] <mkarnicki> sso itself will be able to hold the token in the application preferences
[20:11] <mkarnicki> so that it's not exposed
[20:11] <mkarnicki> 1 sec
[20:12] <mkarnicki> beuno: I'm back
[20:12] <beuno> mkarnicki, I don't follow
[20:12] <mkarnicki> let me rephrase
[20:12] <beuno> how would other applications get the roken then?
[20:12] <mkarnicki> beuno: every app would include the sso jar
[20:13] <mkarnicki> beuno: and on <2.0 Android they would call an activity from the jar
[20:13] <mkarnicki> beuno: then, that activity would return as a result a bundle with token and secret
[20:13] <beuno> mkarnicki, and how would they share tokens so people don't have to specify their credentials on each one?
[20:14] <mkarnicki> beuno: oh dang. i missed that. right, we're back to world-readable file heh
[20:14] <mkarnicki> I'm kinda sleepy, sorry.
[20:14] <beuno> :)
[20:14] <mkarnicki> you're right. so yeah, we're using AccountManager and
[20:14] <mkarnicki> on <2.0 we use a world readable file
[20:14] <beuno> I'm glad we're having this conversation before anything is implemented!
[20:14] <mkarnicki> yeah! hehehe
[20:15] <mkarnicki> I'm sorry, I'm a bit sloppy today
[20:15] <beuno> it's called "Monday"
[20:15] <mkarnicki> beuno: since that file will be really small, I think we could save it in the promary, internal storage
[20:15] <mkarnicki> yea ;)
[20:16] <mkarnicki> we don't want to loose the tokens with the user plugged the phone with a USB cable and sd card is mounted onto PC (can't access from the phone, if I'm not mistaken)
[20:16] <beuno> I agree, primary storage is best for this
[20:16] <mkarnicki> so, we would put that in the internal storage.
[20:17] <mkarnicki> plus, I still think that apps (on <2.0) should ask the sso activity for the tokens
[20:17] <mkarnicki> because, if there's connectivity, the sso will instantly verify if they're still valid, and then forward them to the app
[20:17] <mkarnicki> beuno: *or* we can say that
[20:18] <beuno> mkarnicki, that would work as well
[20:18] <mkarnicki> if the application happens to receive invalid tokens, it must call sso activity with some EXTRA_ set so that it knows
[20:18] <mkarnicki> it should retrieve new tokens
[20:18] <mkarnicki> that's actually how AccountManager works
[20:18]  * beuno nods
[20:18] <mkarnicki> applications should notify it if the tokens are bad.
[20:18] <beuno> whatever is easier, really
[20:18] <mkarnicki> and that's it.
[20:19] <mkarnicki> for starteds I think I'll write the version with the browser, and when that's working, I'll work on the new API
[20:19] <mkarnicki> *starters
[20:20] <mkarnicki> the browser would initially show up both on <2.0 and 2.0+, just for time being
[20:20] <mkarnicki> then I'll change that to work with new API (captcha, etc)
[20:20] <beuno> sounds great
[20:20] <mkarnicki> cool
[20:21] <beuno> try to keep it simple and slowly make it more complex
[20:21] <mkarnicki> exactly, that's what I'll aim for.
[20:21] <mkarnicki> incremental improvements.
[20:21] <mkarnicki> simple solution is always the best
[20:22] <beuno> awesome
[20:22] <mkarnicki> beuno: what are you guys using in ubuntuone-android-client currently for auth?
[20:22] <mkarnicki> beuno: has it been released yet? I think not, right?
[20:23] <beuno> mkarnicki, no, we don't hve a lot of code yet
[20:23] <beuno> or almost any at all
[20:23] <beuno> it's all sketching and discussing atm
[20:23] <mkarnicki> oh. I thought I saw a screenshot, it looked pretty cool (or was that a dream :D? hehe)
[20:24] <mkarnicki> I see. anyway, if I can be of any help, let me know.
[20:24] <beuno> a dream  :)
[20:25] <mkarnicki> no way.. *googles*
[20:25] <mkarnicki> :D
[20:26] <mkarnicki> beuno: I'm definitely working too much :O hehehe
[20:26]  * mkarnicki is sure he saw a screenshot with nice, huge button saying 'Sync contacts' or something along that line
[20:27] <beuno> mkarnicki, ah
[20:27] <beuno> yes
[20:27] <beuno> but that's the existing iphone app, I think
[20:27] <mkarnicki> maybe it was iphone.. right!
[20:27] <mkarnicki> it might have been
[20:27] <mkarnicki> oh man.. you got me scared :D hehe
[20:28] <beuno> you
[20:28] <beuno> you're seeing zombie apps!
[20:28] <mkarnicki> heheheh
[20:29] <mkarnicki> ubuntu on Nexus One heh ;) http://goo.gl/MxBQ
[20:30] <mkarnicki> beuno: yea, it was iPhone indeed :) looks really nice, simple and clean
[20:32] <duffy> wonder how well it runs.
[21:49] <ajmitch> mkarnicki: oh, what info did you get on browserless auth? it sounds interesting
[21:50] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: developers will be able to use REST API, present the user with captcha (+verification mail) and not use the browser for that :)
[21:50] <ajmitch> so it'll still require some graphical display
[21:51] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: yes, it does to present the captcha
[21:51]  * ajmitch is wanting something that will allow using U1 file sync on a headless box
[21:51] <ajmitch> since there's no cli-only support at the moment :)
[21:52] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: yes, that would be nice :)
[21:53] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: you can always enter the oauth tokens by hand on the headless box, if you want U1 file sync there :)
[21:53] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: gotta go now, I'll be back soon
[21:54] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: although I don't feel I'm the best person to address that interesting issue :)
[21:54] <ajmitch> still useful to know :)
[21:55] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: (you'd need to put them in the keyring, I don't know if you need some other setup)
[21:55] <mkarnicki> ajmitch: probably some guys are laughing at what crazy stuff I'm writing, but hey, you can always try :) ok, gotta leave for a while. bye!
[21:55] <ajmitch> which will require having some keyring components there
[21:55] <ajmitch> thanks
[22:00] <hotstew> A file won't synchronize even after a while even though the rest was uploaded
[22:01] <hotstew> Seems like a bug. o.O


[00:34] <squish102> superfly: there must be lots of jobs to choose from
[00:34] <squish102> difficult to find IT staff atm
[00:35] <squish102> especially mobile/big data/cloud/security
[05:06] <superfly> squish102: well, I don't think I can really do better than RedHat :-)
[05:07] <superfly> squish102: but it's just a little difficult for me to get something that works for both me and the company
[06:43] <chesedo> morning all
[06:45] <chesedo> from last night's thread, i guess that not many noticed github's updated UI this week...
[06:45] <chesedo> which leads me to think that he makes use of a proxy and has a caching problem...
[07:10] <Kilos> morning everyone :D
[07:15] <chesedo> morning oom Kilos
[07:15] <chesedo> hoe gaan dit?
[07:15] <Kilos> hi chesedo
[07:15] <Kilos> gaan maar aan dankie en jy
[07:16] <chesedo> lekker, was 'n besige week dankie
[07:17] <Kilos> ai! die google word elke dag erger
[07:18] <Kilos> ek het vir jou n epos gestuur
[07:24] <Kilos> off topic i know but i hate bullies thinking they can get away with anything
[07:25] <Kilos> all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to sit back and do nothing
[07:34] <chesedo> hmm, interesting that...
[07:50] <nsnzero> morning guys
[07:50] <Kilos> hi nsnzero
[07:50] <Kilos> i need to reboot
[07:52] <nsnzero> i need a boot - too lazy today
[08:16]  * chesedo tries to fit a boot into his connection, but does not seem to be working
[08:18] <Kilos> huh?
[08:20] <Kilos>  made my first boo hopefully it workst-repair cd,
[08:20] <Kilos> ai!
[08:21] <Kilos> stupid touchpad
[08:21] <nsnzero> lol chesedo
[08:21] <nsnzero> chesedo: try loading via the boot-strap
[08:22] <chesedo> nsnzero: sorry, but the boot has no straps... did not know you needed that kind :P
[08:26] <nsnzero> the effect is appreciated chesedo
[08:26] <nsnzero> *effort
[08:31] <nsnzero> finally got this laptop upgraded -> 8gigs ram 120G SSD and 1T hdd in a cd-rom caddy - but i am still not satisfied
[08:32] <nsnzero> i was checking out the ridiculous prices for 17" laptops - cheapest i saw was 18K most expensive 72K
[08:33] <nsnzero> Kilos: knoppix has a pre-built repair cd iso - just download and burn it
[08:34] <Kilos> i have a stupid drive from a lappy that decided to boot only to grub-rescue
[08:34] <Kilos> boot-repair used to fix that prob
[08:36] <Kilos> ouch thats big bucks for a lappy
[08:40] <nsnzero> grub doesnt give the error ?
[08:41] <Kilos> grub rescue prompt
[08:41] <nsnzero> i have a lenovo (is a terrible brand) laptop that has no option to boot via cd - only usb after messing around in the bios and scouring the internet for solutions
[08:42] <Kilos> many commands you can use there and make new files etc but not inna thinking and concentrating mood
[08:42] <Kilos> i love this lenovo thinkpad T410i
[08:43] <nsnzero> Kilos: if you didnt install anything new - its a sign of a failing hdd
[08:43] <nsnzero> thinkpad is a ibm brand - lenovo inherited the name when the bought of ibm laptop division
[08:43] <Kilos> i have just reset the mbr so now its a clean drive basically
[08:44] <Kilos> luckily i copied /home to large drive first
[08:46] <nsnzero> i wasnt so lucky - lost everything about 10 000 documents - lucky i was working with my database on another pc - managed to save that
[08:46] <Kilos> whew
[08:46] <Kilos> i always rsync home to somewhere else
[08:47] <Kilos> advice from pro thats always come in handy
[08:47] <nsnzero> now i just email myself everything - let google be my backup
[08:47] <Kilos> eish i have many thousands of mails on gmail
[08:48] <Kilos> thats why i use pop on thunderbird
[08:49] <nsnzero> i created a new email - so i can keep my main email clean - imap works for me
[08:49] <Kilos> hahaha i have 5 mail accounts
[08:49] <Kilos> imap from them would kill me and my data bundle
[08:49] <magespawn> good morning
[08:49] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[08:50] <nsnzero> hi magespawn
[08:50] <magespawn> how things there Kilos?
[08:50] <magespawn> hi nsnzero
[08:50] <Kilos> ok ty magespawn and there?
[08:50] <nsnzero> Kilos:  you can set imap to only get headers - and download only when you want to view the mail
[08:51] <Kilos> too much work pop works fine
[08:52] <nsnzero> i have 1 pop account for ultra secret stuff that ii dont want google accessing
[08:57] <magespawn> all good, thanks Kilos. been on some training for a couple of weeks and generally busy.
[08:57] <magespawn> nsnzero: why not just encrypt the mail?
[09:03] <nsnzero> magespawn: the mail insist sent by me
[09:03] <nsnzero> isn't*
[09:04] <nsnzero> chat later guys - have a good day - nap time for me
[09:50] <Kilos> hi poppingtonic
[09:51] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[09:54] <poppingtonic> Hello Kilos
[09:55] <poppingtonic> I'm from Nairobi
[09:55] <Kilos> cool
[09:55] <Kilos> then you should join #ubuntu-africa channel as well
[09:56] <Kilos> guys from the whole of africa help each other there as well
[09:56] <Kilos> do you need any help poppingtonic
[09:56] <poppingtonic> That's cool.
[09:57] <inetpro> good mornings
[09:57] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[09:57] <inetpro> oh and hi oom Kilos as well
[09:57] <Kilos> raining here again
[09:57] <Kilos> since sunday 135
[09:57] <poppingtonic> I don't need any help right now, I'm just joining so I can help anyone who needs any.
[09:57] <inetpro> poppingtonic: hi
[09:57] <Kilos> good to have you here poppingtonic feel free to hang out 24/7
[09:58] <poppingtonic> Yeah, I just set this channel to auto-join, so I'll get notified whenever anyone mentions me.
[09:59] <Kilos> do the same with the africa channel and meet the guys as the pop in
[09:59] <Kilos> we have guys from capetown to tunisia there
[10:00] <poppingtonic> That's great
[10:00] <Kilos> poppingtonic do you know symmetria and zipper
[10:01] <Kilos> the both in networking in kenya
[10:01] <poppingtonic> I see zipper regularly, but I haven't met symmetria in months.
[10:01] <poppingtonic> Probably more than a year since the last time we met.
[10:03] <Kilos> married  life and work keeping him busy it seems , he used to hang here all the time
[10:03] <Kilos> we actually use his mirror for za
[11:03] <chesedo> poppingtonic: hi and welcome
[12:44] <nlsthzn> sup ZA?
[13:03] <chesedo> not much and self nlsthzn?
[13:04] <chesedo> well actually, i have to figure why my mikrotick router is not masquaring 443 traffic...
[13:07] <nlsthzn> sounds painful chesedo :p not to much happening here... thanks for asking :)
[13:09]  * inetpro will sign out of here in a few minutes and will hopefully be back tomorrow
[13:22] <nlsthzn> bai inetpro
[15:32] <nlsthzn> hi uncle Kilos , how are you?
[15:32] <hibana> wb Kilos
[15:32] <hibana> oh and hi nlsthzn
[15:33] <nlsthzn> hey hibana
[15:34] <nlsthzn> ah inetpro :p
[15:34] <inetpro> eh ;-)
[15:34] <inetpro> how're you doing nlsthzn?
[15:35] <Kilos> im ok ty nlsthzn and you?
[15:35] <Kilos> inetpro you sorted out already?
[15:35] <nlsthzn> I'm fine thanks :)
[15:35] <inetpro> Kilos: nope, just connected directly now
[15:36] <Kilos> where is not found fella
[15:36] <Kilos> ah ok inetpro
[15:36] <inetpro> Kilos: he found his self
[15:36] <Kilos> haha
[15:36] <Kilos> himself
[15:37] <inetpro> Kilos: btw, something seems to have changed on the Telkom side
[15:37] <Kilos> what?
[15:38] <inetpro> the site onnetsecure.telkom.co.za not showing usage info directly any more
[15:38] <inetpro> maybe just temporary
[15:38] <Kilos> oh yes i saw that
[15:38] <Kilos> there is a nother way i think
[15:39] <inetpro> have to login
[15:39] <Kilos> forgotten what i did since we went cellc
[15:39] <Kilos> yes
[15:39] <Kilos> that was a pain i think
[15:39] <Kilos> cellc has 100g for R1000 and you can stretch it over a year if you like'
[15:40] <Kilos> only this voda tower they share here only has edge so im in tortoiseville again
[15:43] <inetpro> yikes!
[15:44] <Kilos> brings back memories though
[15:44] <Kilos> when i went from gprs to edge i thought wow this is fast
[15:44] <Kilos> hahaha
[15:44] <Kilos> what a twit
[15:45] <inetpro> 1c per MB is a nice price
[15:46] <inetpro> just need to have something in place to limit you usage so you don't eat it in one day
[15:46] <inetpro> your usage*
[15:47]  * inetpro should test cellC
[15:48] <Kilos> too much to eat in one day
[15:48] <Kilos> i dont do youtube or download videos
[15:49] <Kilos> 20 mins skype daily
[15:50] <Kilos> they also have 200g for R1500
[15:50] <Kilos> im lucky ian gets the bundles
[15:53] <inetpro> will try it out one of these days
[15:53] <inetpro> my Telkom contract runs out in a month or two
[15:54] <inetpro> if they don't wake up I will jump ship
[15:55] <Kilos> if you get a good cellc signal there there isnt any reason to stay with telkom
[15:55] <inetpro> also planning to keep my current mobile phone and go to prepaid
[15:55] <inetpro> that way I can switch networks easily
[15:56] <Kilos> i even got telkom to start building another tower near kroondal so telkom signal will be good soon, they just need to give better bundles
[15:57] <Kilos> we can see kroondal from here at night
[15:57] <Kilos> maybe 10 ks away
[15:58] <Kilos> but for now at least im still connected
[16:00] <inetpro> I give up with Vodacom, they're generally still the best network around but useless in my area and aftre so many followups they still don't upgrade the network here to proper LTE
[16:00] <inetpro> and they remain pricey
[16:03]  * nlsthzn is so happy with fibre and unlimited, moving away from this will be torture
[16:03] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:07] <inetpro> nlsthzn: I wish I could get it here
[16:08] <nlsthzn> I remember 8 years ago inquiring about internet and they basically list you the prices and the speed... then all the saffa's were; "But what is the cap?"  They had no idea what we meant
[16:09] <nlsthzn> now if you really want great internet for very cheap you need to be in India...
[16:09] <nlsthzn> wow, competition there is hectic
[16:12] <inetpro> Kilos: how do you manage usage on CellC, do they have a nice interface like Telkom?
[16:13] <Kilos> i have no idea inetpro
[16:15] <Kilos> https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiKhoKh0qvSAhXGtBQKHf9oCs4QFggbMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cellc.co.za%2Fcellc%2Fprepaid-contract-detail%2FGiga&usg=AFQjCNHEE_BQ9fCM2OfTT9zoHEOdSVhcew
[16:15] <Kilos> ouch sorry
[16:15] <Kilos> i forget to first go to the link
[16:16] <inetpro> 100 Prepaid = R1499 once-off
[16:24] <nsnzero> good afternoon all
[16:24] <inetpro> wb nsnzero
[16:26] <nsnzero> hi inetpro - thanks
[16:27] <nsnzero> question - there is a daemon called upower.service that delays my boot-up by 42 seconds when i have a sd card plugged in
[16:27] <nsnzero> 44.423s upower.service
[16:28] <nsnzero> report from systemd-analyze blame
[16:28] <inetpro> wow, that is a long delay
[16:30] <inetpro> nsnzero: see: https://upower.freedesktop.org/
[16:35] <nsnzero> thanks inetpro
[16:35] <inetpro> not that there's much to read there
[16:36] <inetpro> maybe look at this also http://askubuntu.com/questions/765969/long-delay-after-bootin-upower-service-requires-26s
[16:43] <nsnzero> its definately the sd card that is causing the delay - maybe i need to enable something / disable something in bios
[16:43] <nsnzero> going to experiment abit
[16:49] <nsnzero> ok after disabling card reader power saving in bios - > success
[16:49] <nsnzero> upower 429ms upower.service
[16:49] <nsnzero> Startup finished in 10.027s (firmware) + 3.526s (loader) + 13.830s (kernel) + 8.746s (userspace) = 36.130s
[17:02] <Kilos> wb not_found
[17:03] <not_found> :p
[17:03] <Kilos> ssd fast hey nsnzero
[17:03]  * not_found has a rogue irc client still running with nlsthzn logged in it seems
[17:03] <not_found> already purged it from app and it still lingers
[17:03] <Kilos> i put one in the thinkpad and was amazed at the performance
[17:03] <not_found> persistent bugger :p
[17:03] <Kilos> lol
[17:04] <nsnzero> hi Kilos | not_found
[17:04] <not_found> o/ nsnzero
[17:05] <nsnzero> my other latop with normal hdd boots in 49 seconds though - so i going to make this 1 faster
[17:06] <not_found> not only don't I have a ssd but my "new" hdd I bought is a 5400rpm green drive (s l          o                     w                                                  !)
[17:08] <nsnzero> the WD green drives are slower - maximum power saving
[17:11] <nsnzero> i wonder if i can put root on a sd card and home on the hdd
[17:12] <nsnzero> like a ghetto hybrid ssd/hdd combo
[17:12] <Kilos> google it , i think ive seen something about that
[17:13] <Kilos> what size ssd you got?
[17:14] <not_found> nsnzero, exactly my point
[17:16] <nsnzero> this 1 is 16G got a 32G lying somewhere
[17:21] <nsnzero> sorry Kilos its a 120G evo - lol -
[17:22] <nsnzero> the sd card is 16 G - nsnzero doesnt read before typing
[17:29] <inetpro> not_found: find your self man
[17:30] <Kilos> i was lucky, my ssd is 128g
[17:31] <Kilos> crashed on windows pc and the IT guys couldnt fix it cheap i think
[17:33] <Kilos> kept crashing with any windows, i zeroed it and put kde on and been running fine for near 6 months i think
[17:33] <nsnzero> got mine from school by asking nicely
[17:33] <Kilos> lol
[17:35] <nsnzero> they dont know this is linux - they think its windows 10 with a funny theme
[17:37] <Kilos> lol
[17:39] <nsnzero> now i need to get a these icons to look nice and flashy - i dont like the flat minimalistic breeze icons
[18:12] <theblazehen> http://tracker.ceph.com/projects/ceph/wiki/Ceph-Brag The existence of this is even more reason for me to move to ceph at home. Will be a lot simpler than my current config as well
[18:14] <nsnzero> hi theblazehen
[18:14] <nsnzero> what is ceph ?
[18:15] <theblazehen> hey nsnzero.


[12:05] <makx> BenC: reading through udev diffs i see your modular udev usage
[12:06] <makx> any reason why your keeping that modular?
[12:08] <lamont> BenC: elilo is broken.  sub-problem: elilo is ftbfs with current binutils
[12:08] <lamont> I'm working on that thing
[12:12] <makx> there also seems races mentioned in autoloading 'unix'..
[12:12] <BenC> makx: I don't do udev
[12:13] <BenC> Kamion does udev
[12:13] <makx> yeah but you do .config CONFIG_UNIX=m
[12:13] <BenC> yes, we always have
[12:13] <BenC> lamont: so newer elilo will get initramfs working?
[12:14] <makx> cache line bounces..
[12:14] <BenC> is there an actual problem, or just theory? :)
[12:15] <makx> we'll see ;-)
[12:15] <lamont> BenC: new elilo and a few other kernel fixes that already went into 2.6.15 (iirc), yes.
[12:15] <BenC> breezy's unix.ko is modular, and I'd be willing to bet hoary is too
[12:15] <lamont> new elilo may require new gnuefi as well, but that's where I'm currently floundering
[12:15] <BenC> lamont: is the elilo source in the archive?
[12:16] <lamont> yes
[12:16] <lamont> but ftbfs
[12:16] <lamont> binutils got more pedantic.
[12:20] <BenC> what exactly is gnuefi?
[12:29] <BenC> lamont-away: ?
[12:52] <jbailey_> BenC: I've got the UseFB turned off now, I'll let oyu know how it goes.
[12:52] <jbailey_> I did a strace chvt, and it hangs in the middle of an ioctl.
[12:52] <jbailey_> I did an strace -p on the running X server, and it's not making any syscalls at all.
[12:52] <jbailey_> Even though I did see two signals sent to it.
[12:55] <BenC> ok, next time "cat /proc/<pid>/wchan of the X process
[12:59] <jbailey> 'k
[01:00] <jbailey> What's that file?
[01:00] <jbailey> When I look at the current one, I don't understand the contents.  It looks like the start of the data segment.
[01:02] <BenC> it's the function in the kernel where the process is
[01:02] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[01:27] <jbailey> BenC: It was either in ,__start or .drm_compat_ioctl
[01:28] <jbailey> It flipped between the two.  I did about a dozen cats.
[01:28] <jbailey> This time I tried just kill -9'ing the X server after that.
[01:28] <jbailey> gdm restarted.
[01:28] <BenC> did everything work after that?
[01:28] <jbailey> I'm on that session now.
[01:28] <BenC> drm_compat, huh
[01:28] <jbailey> It's wroking well enough to x-chat, anyway.
[01:29] <BenC> sounds like drm compat ioctl's might be behind the actual drm ioctl's
[01:29] <BenC> the compat is for conversion between 32-bit userland and 64-bit kernel ioctl's
[01:29] <jbailey> Ah, so it's basically a thunk?
[01:29] <jbailey> JaneW: Aren't you supposed to be asleep?
[01:29] <BenC> and if something in the kernel/userland changed, and the compat doesn't know about it, then it might cause problems
[01:29] <BenC> yeah
[01:31] <jbailey> Anything for me to look at next time around? =)
[01:31] <jbailey> I guess for kicks, I could try a 32 bit kernel.
[01:32] <jbailey> BenC: Is this still an -rc1 kernel, or are you tracking upstream?
[01:36] <jbailey> Hmm,. and my sparc box was hung.
[01:36] <jbailey> Maybe it's just a bad day to be in my computer room
[01:36] <BenC> jbailey: no, it's -rc3+some
[01:40] <jbailey> linux-meta points to 2.6.16-5 on sparc instead of -6.
[01:55] <BenC> weird
[01:55] <BenC> sparc needs to build it still I guess
[01:55] <BenC> lamont-away: ping
[01:58] <jbailey> I didn't think linux-meta had ever pointed to -5.
[01:59] <BenC> yeah, infinity uploaded prior to -6 at mdz's urging
[01:59] <jbailey> rtc_init: no PC rtc found
[01:59] <jbailey> Kenel panic.
[01:59] <BenC> panic?
[01:59] <jbailey> That would be a 'no', I guess. =)
[01:59] <BenC> the RTC thng I get too, but it still boots
[01:59] <jbailey> Hmm, unable t mount root.
[01:59] <BenC> do you have it on quiet?
[01:59] <jbailey> Maybe it's a different thing.
[01:59] <jbailey> Yeah.
[01:59] <jbailey> Lemme see if I can get the old kernel running. =)
[02:00] <BenC> "old" should work
[02:00] <jbailey> bah, stop-a isn't working.
[02:00] <jbailey> It should, assumingI got my silo.conf right.
[02:00] <BenC> you're lucky, it doesn't take 2 minutes to soft-boot and 6 minutes to hard-boot your ultra :)
[02:00] <jbailey> I did this install by hand froma debootsrap off of an old rescue CD. =)
[02:01] <jbailey> Bah, I did make a typo.
[02:01] <jbailey> *sigh*
[02:01] <BenC> nah, just do "/boot/vmlinuz.old initrd=/boot/initrd.old root=/dev/xxx"
[02:02] <jbailey> Ah, I didn't know you could pass initrd on the cmmand line there.
[02:03] <BenC> yeah, silo parses it out and loads it
[02:06] <jbailey> I wonder if my sparc is just broken now.  I've gotten two data access errors and it just hung during Uncompressing Image.
[02:06] <jbailey> Or if power's bad here in the winter.
[02:12] <jbailey> There we go, silo changed to say vmlinuz instead of vmlinux
[02:13] <jbailey> And it's booting on old.
[02:13] <jbailey> BenC: Why does your box take so long, SCSI arrays?
[02:14] <jbailey> Interesting, this kernel just hung with a TRAPLOG message.
[02:16] <jbailey> Hmm.  When I run silo, it doesn't actually check to see if the files exist, doe sit?
[02:18] <jbailey> BenC: Looks like it was my bad.  I screwed up the link to initrd.img
[02:19] <BenC> jbailey: the UltraEnterprise systems have a hell of a POST
[02:19] <BenC> jbailey: ok, so it boots and all?
[02:20] <jbailey> Yup
[02:20] <jbailey> I'm in 2.6.15-6 now
[02:22] <jbailey> Oh, hmm.
[02:22] <jbailey> This new kernel doesn't seem to pick the network card on the scan.
[02:22] <jbailey> I have two nics in here.
[02:22] <jbailey> It's seeing the 3c59x fine
[02:22] <jbailey> Not the onboard.
[02:23] <jbailey> And apparnetly hitting ctrl-alt-delete hung it.
[02:23] <jbailey> Perhaps I should just throw it out the window now? =(
[02:26] <jbailey> Is there an easy wya to see which driver is associated with with eth interface?
[02:27] <jbailey> It looks like the bus scan is seeing both a tulip and a 3c59x
[02:27] <jbailey> (in both 2.6.15 and 2.6.12)
[02:27] <jbailey> But one of them isn't producing an interface in 2.6.15
[02:30] <jbailey> Ah, dmesg - looks like sunhme
[02:34] <jbailey> Hmm, no it's showing up as eth2.
[02:34] <jbailey> Ah, I see.  It didn't see it before beacuse I was using ifup, which needs configury in /etc/network/interfaces
[02:34] <jbailey> So the detection order has changed.
[02:36] <BenC> ah
[02:36] <BenC> yeah, iftab problem
[02:37] <BenC> plus, if you upgraded udev so that hotplug is gone, the hotplug thing in /etc/network/interfaces appears to not work anymore
[02:48] <jbailey> Yeah, did that.
[03:26] <jbailey> BenC: Anyhow, thanks.  Anything else you want tried on the ppc box?  sparc is now building gdb for me to do my hacking there.  I'll let you know if I still get full hangs when debugging. =)
[03:26] <jbailey> Otherwise I'm starting to look at biarch gdb for sparc.
[03:26] <BenC> ok
[03:26] <BenC> nothing I can think of right now
[03:27] <BenC> if you have problems with 64-bit gdb on sparc, let davem know (or me and I can relay)
[03:27] <jbailey> 32 bit gdb was hanging my box solid before.
[03:27] <jbailey> But I'm hoping 2.6.15 will make that go away.
[03:28] <jbailey> If you're just going to relay, I can catch him on irc - are you interested, though / do you want to be cc:'d?
[03:33] <BenC> interested, but you don't need to keep me in the loop
[03:33] <BenC> just the outcome is all that's important :)
[05:07] <jbailey> BenC: Killing the Xorg daemon a second time works, so whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be chewing up all the resources in the kernel in a hurry.
[05:08] <BenC> strange bug
[05:08] <jbailey> I've tried to take a picture of the kernel message to the screen where the sparc box hung.  I suspect this box is just fubar, maybe.
[05:09] <BenC> usually I would expect a bug in the kernel that affected X like that, to atleast put the X process into D state
[05:09] <jbailey> It looks like line noise, follow by a struct dump
[05:09] <BenC> can you get a serial console on it?
[05:10] <jbailey> Assuming my laplink cable isn't dead, yet.  I bought one before UBZ, but when we tried to use it there, it didn't seem to work.
[05:10] <jbailey> But the a500 we were testing was also dead, so it's hard to tell which parts weren't working. =)
[05:10] <jbailey> I've also taken 'quiet' off of the kernel command line now, so next time I might get a better dump
[05:10] <BenC> the a500 has a screwy serial port (it's actually 3-in-1), hopefully the sparc is ok with it
[05:11] <jbailey> The a500 wasn' posting at all.  The SCSI card wasn't even init'ing the drives.
[05:12] <jbailey> Bah, the sparc didn't make it long enoug to finish my gdb package.
[05:12] <jbailey> Mmm, nice the testsuite resumed.
[05:13] <BenC> weird, the GSP console should work even when power is off (it's a completelt seperate system
[05:13] <jbailey> Yeah.  Grant suggested that it might have been the power supply itself that went.
[05:26] <jbailey> There seem to be a whole pile of dejagnu failures.  Do you know if anyone actively looks at sparc-linux gdb, or is it just something davem and a few people do in their spare time?
[06:08] <jbailey> Wow, long scroll.
[06:08] <jbailey> The oops went on for 6 or 7 pages.  I will need to hook a serial console up to catch it.
[06:09] <jbailey> Nice to see it out of quiet mode though.
[06:09] <jbailey> I'll wire that up tomorrow.
[03:57] <BenC> lamont: hey
[03:59] <lamont> yo
[04:01] <fabbione>  hey BenC
[04:01] <BenC> hey fabbione
[04:02] <BenC> lamont: The version of elilo on ports.u.c seems to be the same version as the .deb
[04:02] <lamont> right
[04:02] <BenC> lamont: how is rebuilding it going to get initramfs working?
[04:02] <lamont> binutils was upgraded after it built
[04:02] <BenC> so initramfs not working is bintutils related?
[04:02] <lamont> it won't - it needs a new upstream.  upstream is working with me on getting it to compile again
[04:03] <BenC> I got it to compile
[04:03] <lamont> no.  initramfs not working is an elilo bug.  elilo not building is related to binutils being more pedantic now
[04:03] <lamont> on current dapper?
[04:03] <BenC> new yes
[04:03] <lamont> woot
[04:03] <lamont> with current gnuefi?
[04:04] <BenC> I fixed some assembly bugs (.endp and such), and then copied the linker script from the newer gnu-efi (to DISCARD IA_64.unwind symbols)
[04:04] <lamont> send me your patch please
[04:04] <BenC> newer gnu-efi is probably a 20 linue diff
[04:04] <BenC> ok
[04:04] <lamont> I'll push it to upstream on monday (he sits across the building from me..)
[04:04] <lamont> and then he'll upload to debian, and we'll sync, and all will be love.
[04:05] <fabbione> mafia :)
[04:05] <BenC> any chance I can get his patch for elilo+initramfs to test?
[04:05] <lamont> monday
[04:05] <lamont> I don't have iut
[04:06] <lamont> back in a while
[04:06] <BenC> ok, I'll send you a patch for gnu-efi 3.0a's linker script, and then a patch for elilo's ia64/{set,long}jmp.S assembly
[04:10] <trevilor> hi guys
[05:11] <lamont> BenC: thanks.  (although I had the assembly stuff done - was working on time to hack gnu-efi)
[06:00] <jb-home> BenC: Around?
[06:00] <BenC> yeah
[06:00] <BenC> lamont: booting with the rebuilt elilo doesn't work
[06:01] <BenC> lamont: it shows "Starting Ubuntu" and goes back to the efi menu
[06:01] <BenC> jb-home: yeah
[06:01] <jb-home> BenC: I'm playing more on the sparc box - I've got the serial console wired up.
[06:01] <jb-home> When rebuilding gdb, it seemed to hang it, no output to the serial port at all.
[06:01] <jb-home> When I rebooted, I had a whole pile of bus errors.
[06:01] <BenC> break signal doesn't get it out to OBP?
[06:02] <jb-home> Is there any chance this is something other than hardawre?
[06:02] <BenC> bus errors?
[06:02] <jb-home> Nope, no response on the keyboard at all.
[06:02] <jb-home> Lemme fetch the log off of the laptop.
[06:02] <BenC> are you running latest things like libc6 and such?
[06:02] <jb-home> Yup, up to date dapper
[06:04] <jb-home> [   10.201895]  SABRE0: PCI SERR signal asserted.
[06:04] <jb-home> [   10.412781]  SABRE0: PCI bus error, PCI_STATUS[83a0]
[06:04] <jb-home> repeat until
[06:04] <jb-home> [   16.953369]  SABRE0: PCI bus error, PCI_STATUS[83a0]
[06:04] <jb-home> [   17.178580]  SABRE0: PCI SERR signal asserted.
[06:04] <jb-home> Then the timer reset to 0
[06:04] <jb-home> It got up to 16 a second time, reset to 0
[06:04] <jb-home> Then then went for another 2.5  seconds.
[06:05] <jb-home> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/minicom.cap
[06:07] <mjg59> Can I shove some more drivers in l-r-m?
[06:08] <jb-home> mjg59: I may pout if they really suck to support.
[06:08] <BenC> jb-home: that really looks like hardware
[06:08] <jb-home> I've been wondering if we need to have two l-r-m's.  One for restricted, one for multiverse.
[06:09] <mjg59> jb-home: Modem drivers
[06:09] <BenC> sabre, what type of ultrasparc is that
[06:09] <jb-home> BenC: How do I tell?  It says Ultra 5 on the front, and has the usual compaq grey casing.
[06:09] <BenC> that's all I needed to know
[06:09] <BenC> Ultra IIi
[06:09] <mjg59> Wow. That one actually built against 2.6.12.
[06:10] <BenC> IIi has PCI built into the CPU
[06:10] <jb-home> mjg59: Modem drivers probably should go in there.
[06:10] <jb-home> Especially if they're for an iBook.
[06:10] <jb-home> *sigh*
[06:10] <mjg59> jb-home: I can't remember what the iBook has, but I have a feeling it's weird conexant shit
[06:11] <mjg59> jb-home: We have two choices there:
[06:11] <BenC> jb-home: at the OBP prompt try "probe-pci-all" and "test-pci"
[06:11] <BenC> or "test pci" can't remember which it is, but "help test" might tell you for sure
[06:11] <jb-home> ok probe-pci-all
[06:11] <jb-home> probe-pci-all ?
[06:11] <mjg59> 1) We ship the Linuxant drivers which are limited to 14.4bps unless you pay them
[06:12] <mjg59> 2) We ship the older versions of their drivers, which are GPLed (except for the closed bits). The license allows redistribution. We have to forward-port to 2.6.
[06:12] <BenC> lamont: I'm trying to setup my i2k so that EFI is on the serial console, and I get output, but I can't seem to find the right baud rate
[06:12] <jb-home> test pci, Device pci not found, help test, No help available for test.
[06:12] <BenC> EFI says 115k, and I have my serial setup at 115k, but it isn't working (shows garbage)
[06:12] <jb-home> BenC: IIRC, It's 19200 on my ia64.
[06:13] <jb-home> And E71 or something like that.
[06:13] <BenC> E71? weird, EFI says 115xxx,8N1
[06:13] <jb-home> Might have just been the way mine was setup.
[06:13] <jb-home> It took me a couple goes to get it right, though.
[06:13] <BenC> it wont let me change it, so I guess it's hardcoded
[06:14] <jb-home> mjg59: Are the closed bits actually just loaded firmware, or are they things that might need updating?
[06:14] <mjg59> jb-home: They're basically chunks of the Windows driver
[06:14] <mjg59> Hang on, let me find you a URL
[06:15] <BenC> that got me garbage too
[06:21] <mjg59> There's a more recent version of the ltmodem driver, too
[06:26] <jb-home> mjg59: What do you suggest?  I don't really know anythign about it.
[06:27] <jb-home> Just that I've had two people ask me about whether we support modems on iBook.  Not even a statistic. =)
[06:30] <mjg59> Ah, hmm.
[06:30] <mjg59> The iBook (it seems) has USB Conexant stuff
[06:41] <BenC> this serial console is pissing me off
[06:42] <BenC> the EFI says it is 115384 (not 115200) and 8N1
[06:42] <BenC> 115200 8N1 shows me garbage, even tried switching on/off the hw and sw flow control
[06:43] <BenC> time for google I guess
[06:47] <BenC> jb-home: did you have to use a null modem connector for your i2k?
[06:52] <BenC> there's a good reason
[06:52] <BenC> my e3k's serial port cannot be set to 115200
[07:12] <jb-home> BenC: I don't thin so.  Besids, if you needed a null, you wouldn't get any garbage at all from connecting tx to tx, rx to rx.
[07:13] <BenC> you're right, just grabbing at straws, but now I'm sure it's just a matter of not being able to set my ultrasparc port to 115200 (where I'm running minicom)
[07:50] <lamont> 9600 or 19200 is pretty normal - that or autosensing
[08:02] <zul> heylo
[08:10] <zul> BenC: sata and ata cdroms broke in 2.6.15?
[08:12] <BenC> I've seen one report saying such
[08:12] <zul> yeah looks there is a module param called atapi_enabled now
[08:12] <BenC> the one report I saw looked more like a resource conflict, possibly with ide-generic
[08:13] <zul> looks like the behaviour changed in 2.6.13
[08:13] <BenC> did you test this param?
[08:13] <zul> no i dont have sata at home, ill test it at work when i get into work tomorrow
[08:14] <zul> http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0508.3/1620.html
[08:15] <zul> there isnt a #define ATA_ENABLE_ATAPI anymore
[08:15] <zul> ill upgrade my computer tomorrow and see what breaks...yeehaww :)
[08:16] <BenC> ah
[08:16] <BenC> does PATA handle things where atapi_enabled was needed?
[08:16] <zul> not sure...still looking
[08:16] <BenC> the libata-dev merge I just did included 4 or 5 new PATA drivers
[08:17] <zul> accroding to this wiki page im looking at configure the sata system as built-in and add libata.atapi_enabled=1 to the kernel command line
[08:17] <zul> uh...wait..
[08:18] <zul> modprobe libata apatpi_enabled=1 should work as well
[08:18] <BenC> yeah, for our kernel, you need the modprobe
[08:18] <BenC> so I'd add it in /etc/mkinitramfs somewhere
[08:18] <zul> get the guy on the kernel mailing list to do it
[08:18] <BenC> the atapi_enabled=1 param that is
[08:19] <BenC> ok
[08:19] <zul> stupid xchat
[08:20] <zul> im emailling the list right now
[08:20] <BenC> just did
[08:21] <BenC> I wonder if the ATAPI support is stable enough for us now
[08:21] <BenC> to be enabled by default I mean
[08:21] <zul> i can test it
[08:32] <zul> ill be back later
[08:41] <jb-home> BenC: So s the idea that ide-generic finally goes away and we get libata instead?
[08:56] <calc> does sata/libata finally support smart yet?
[09:02] <BenC> yeah, the sata passthrough supports smart now
[09:02] <BenC> jb-home: legacy IDE needs ide-generic, IIRC
[09:03] <BenC> that 15" was getting old
[09:09] <fabbione> i am happy with my 3x21" ;)
[09:09] <fabbione> CRT tho...
[09:09] <fabbione> have a nice day guys
[09:10] <fabbione> cya around
[10:40] <CataEnry> hi *
[11:16] <CataEnry> good night all :)
[11:48] <dilinger> hm
[11:48] <dilinger> libata finally supports smart ioctls?  as of when?
[11:49] <dilinger> 2.6.12 certainly doesn't :(


[13:52] <zHammeRz> Anyone alive? :)
[13:52] <astraljava> Sure.
[13:53] <zHammeRz> Just checkin'!  :)  But I was wondering if anyone knew if Ubuntu-Studio has a program that can do the same thing as VSO's convert x to dvd (For windows) ?
[13:57] <astraljava> I haven't used any, but according to apt-cache search, there seems to be tovid and videotrans that have the ability to create DVDs.
[13:58] <zHammeRz> It's downloading now..I'll install it here soon and play with it and see if I can make it work
[14:15] <holstein> ubuntustudio has the exact same repo as ubuntu
[14:16] <holstein> ubuntustudio = ubuntu
[14:16] <holstein> zHammeRz: i would suggest going to 'i want to do such-n-such'
[14:17] <holstein> i dont know much about windows applications
[16:04] <raven_> hi
[19:27] <plotino> hi
[19:28] <plotino> no answer
[19:49] <mammig> hello plotino :) but i can't help you
[19:50] <mammig> i know nothing about ubuntustudio ( that's why i'm here ) ;)


[07:47] <Takyoji> If I want to report a bug regarding anything USB, which only appears after a specific kernel version; is the only option to just do regression testing between the revisions between the working and the first non-working version of the kernel?
[07:47] <Takyoji> In general: USB (USB flash drive, USB mouse, anything) stops working after a specific kernel version
[07:48] <Takyoji> When anything is plugged in via USB, you can see it noticing something being connected through USB via dmesg, but nothing more.
[08:06] <Takyoji> (forgot that I had this channel open in Pidgin; which I accidentally closed)
[19:28] <gnomefreak> i tried booting into 2.6.37-12 2 times and it failed to make it to gdm. i have added dmesg log to bug report but it is all about 2.6.37-6 since it is the only kernel that boots and works. what dmesg log will give me info on the failed boots? this filed bug 698114
[19:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 698114 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernels 2.6.37-10 and 2.6.37-11 fail to load (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/698114
[19:32] <charlie-tca> depends on how many times you tried to boot
[19:33] <charlie-tca> dmesg.1.log will be 1 boot before the one that worked, normally
[19:35] <gnomefreak> charlie-tca: thanks ill add it to bug report.
[19:35] <charlie-tca> thanks for reporting it
[19:37] <gnomefreak> anytime :)


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[05:01] <Mertz`> hi, I'm having an installation problem with ubuntu, am I in the right place?
[05:08] <Mertz`> anyone here?
[05:20] <xnox> Mertz`, folks here usually deal with very complex installation problems. You can try #ubuntu as well
[05:20] <xnox> !ask
[05:20] <ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
[05:21] <Mertz`> okay, well this probably isn't a very complex problem, do you want to hear it anyway?
[05:21] <xnox> yes
[05:21] <Mertz`> okay, well
[05:22] <Mertz`> I've been trying to reinstall ubuntu
[05:22] <xnox> =)))) see what ubot2 said ;-) generally you ask your question and then people jump in & help or redirect you to other support channells
[05:22] <Mertz`> because I screwed up my grub royally
[05:22] <xnox> !grub
[05:22] <ubot2> grub is the default boot manager for Ubuntu releases before Karmic (9.10). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto - See !grub2 for Karmic onwards.
[05:22] <xnox> you can fix grub with livecd ;-)
[05:23] <Mertz`> so, when it gets at the end of the installation, I get an installation error saying "cannot install bootloader on this partition" or something along those lines
[05:23] <Mertz`> yeah, that's actually what I'm using right now
[05:23] <Mertz`> I can give you the exact messasge in a few minutes, it's working through a second time
[05:23] <xnox> hmmm if the install fails see the above wiki page on how to "resurect" grub
[05:24] <xnox> do you by any chance have other operating systems installed?
[05:24] <Mertz`> I used to
[05:24] <Mertz`> but I reformatted the drive recently to make space
[05:24] <xnox> _currently_ ? =)
[05:24] <xnox> kk
[05:24] <Mertz`> yeah
[05:24] <Mertz`> I tried ressurecting grub on the original installation of ubuntu
[05:24] <xnox> aha
[05:25] <Mertz`> but it never worked, it would always boot into the sh:grub> prompt
[05:25] <xnox> hmmm in the for-last step of the installer configuration you can select advanced
[05:25] <Mertz`> instead of the actual menu
[05:25] <Mertz`> okay
[05:25] <xnox> and you can pick where you want to install the bootloader
[05:25] <Mertz`> right
[05:25] <xnox> i usually install the bootloader on to the partition which has /boot
[05:25] <xnox> in my case
[05:25] <xnox> /dev/sda3
[05:25] <Mertz`> right, it was /dev/sda5 in my case
[05:26] <Mertz`> but it still wouldn't load for some reason
[05:26] <xnox> cause by default it installs onto /dev/sda
[05:26] <xnox> that is into mbr
[05:26] <Mertz`> right
[05:26] <Mertz`> okay
[05:26] <Mertz`> I'm just afraid the hard drive is failing
[05:26] <xnox> nah
[05:26] <Mertz`> because I keep getting those "hard drive is in danger of failing" messages
[05:26] <xnox> probably two grubs conflicting with each other.
[05:27] <Mertz`> right
[05:27] <Mertz`> that would make sense
[05:27] <xnox> that is install is updating one grub menu, while you are booting with the other =)
[05:27] <Mertz`> hm
[05:27] <xnox> although "hard drive is in danger of failing" sounds scary
[05:27] <Mertz`> so how would I access the original?
[05:28] <Mertz`> yeah, lets chose not to worry about that right now, hahaha
[05:28] <xnox> Mertz`, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Reinstalling from LiveCD
[05:28] <xnox> that gives you 3 methods of installing grub ;-)
[05:29] <Mertz`> hmm okay
[05:29] <Mertz`> well I'll give this a check and get back to you soon
[05:29] <Mertz`> thanks a toN!
[05:31]  * xnox wonders if Mertz` harddrive failed......
[09:15] <ev> good morning xnox
[10:51] <ara> ev, morning
[10:51] <ev> ara: hiya
[10:51] <ara> ev,  any reason why "rescue mode" now is called "alternative desktop environments" in the menu?
[10:51] <ara> ev, it does not sound related at all
[10:52] <cjwatson> err
[10:52] <cjwatson> that's just a bug
[10:52] <cjwatson> I very much doubt that gets you to rescue mode
[10:53] <ara> cjwatson, it does
[10:53] <ara> cjwatson, I'll file a bug
[10:53] <ara> casper?
[10:53] <cjwatson> no
[10:53] <cjwatson> debian-installer, but don't bother, I'm looking at it now
[10:54] <the-dude> cjwatson: ah is this better :0
[10:54] <the-dude> I mean :)
[10:55] <cjwatson> yes
[10:55] <the-dude> sorry :)
[10:55] <cjwatson> so can you post your full preseed file (with any passwords removed), and a description of the problem you're having?
[10:56] <ara> cjwatson, I will file the bug anyway, so we can track the issue in the tracker, if you don't mind
[10:56] <the-dude> yes hold on
[10:58] <cjwatson> ara: ok, as you like
[11:02] <ara> cjwatson, bug 588221
[11:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 588221 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) ""Rescue Mode" menu item shows as "Alternative desktop environments" in the Maverick Alpha 1 images (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588221
[11:06] <cjwatson> thanks
[12:30] <CIA-4> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1306 ubuntu/ (build/boot/x86/menu.cfg debian/changelog):
[12:30] <CIA-4> debian-installer: Remove dtmenu.cfg from default menu.cfg; it isn't used in Ubuntu and it
[12:30] <CIA-4> debian-installer: confuses gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (LP: #588221).
[12:40] <CIA-4> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1307 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20100211ubuntu4
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator: evand * r312 usb-creator/debian/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator:  + added forgotten python-support dependency
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator:  + updated descriptions (thanks Matthew Paul Thomas)
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator:  + vendor branded icons installed if available
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator:  + debian-menu installed if there are branded xpm's
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator: * Initial Debian release (Closes: #582884, #576359)
[13:46] <CIA-4> usb-creator: * debian/control:
[14:37] <cjwatson> 18:06 <cjwatson> you should probably start with https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html and
[14:37] <cjwatson>                  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/debian-installer/ubuntu/annotate/head:/doc/devel/partman-auto-recipe.txt
[14:37] <cjwatson> the-dude: ^- those are the links from Friday, in case you've lost them - the second answers your question from #debian-boot
[14:38] <cjwatson> the-dude: if it's not doing what you want, then could you describe what's happening in more detail, and post an installer syslog?  the syslog is usually pretty informative once you know how to read it :-)
[14:38] <cjwatson> oh and perhaps the partman log as well
[16:17] <xnox> ev, will FoundationTeam meeting be held today? it's gone from fridge....
[16:24] <cjwatson> it's on Wednesdays not Tuesdays
[16:25] <xnox> cjwatson, silly me =)
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r461 ubuntu/debian/ (cdrom-detect.postinst changelog):
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: usb-storage sometimes seems to take a while to settle to the point of
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: actually exposing block devices, despite the 'udevadm settle' in
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: hw-detect. I don't see an easy way to solve this, so, with
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: reservations, retry the detection loop three times with a 'sleep 3' in
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: between in the event that no devices are found, in the hope that that
[16:29] <CIA-4> cdrom-detect: improves matters (LP: #586036).
[18:04] <michaelforrest> ev: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfkkjjcj_101gnkrpg5v
[18:39] <shadeslayer> hi is there support for GPT ( http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GPT  ) in the kubuntu installer
[18:46] <cjwatson> yes, but what exactly are you looking for?
[18:47] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ok,ill be partitioning my entire 320 GB HD for a reinstall of Kubuntu and Arch
[18:48] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: so i read on the arch wiki that their installer supports it,was wondering if kubuntu supported it as well
[18:48] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: so i can manually make more partitions right?
[18:48] <cjwatson> our installer won't normally offer GPT as a choice when you're creating a new partition table, but it should work just fine if the disk is already using GPT
[18:49] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ah ok,i was planning to format it with the Ubuntu Live disk before hand,they have something called Disk Utilities which can do that ;)
[18:50] <shadeslayer> s/disk/cd
[18:50] <cjwatson> sure, gparted will be able to dso it
[18:50] <cjwatson> do it
[18:50] <cjwatson> there are ways to do it with the Kubuntu installer if you're an expert
[18:50] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: thats my backup option,since im confident that gparted will do the job :P
[18:51] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: hmmm..
[18:51] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: how?
[18:51] <cjwatson> if you use the alternate installer and boot in expert mode then you'll get the option
[18:51] <cjwatson> not necessarily a good idea though, it asks a lot of confusing questions
[18:51] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: meh.. leave it then :P
[18:52] <cjwatson> anyway, all you need is to create the partition table with something like gparted
[18:52] <cjwatson> you can leave all the rest of the partitioning up to the Kubuntu installer
[18:54] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: cool.. ill probably partition the disk as i go along installing arch and kubuntu
[18:54] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: one more thing
[18:54] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: does ubuntu support BTRFS?
[18:54] <cjwatson> no, not in 10.04
[18:54] <shadeslayer> for the / partition
[18:54] <shadeslayer> :'(
[18:55] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: anyway to get it to work?
[18:55] <cjwatson> no, but I just fixed the worst blocking problem in grub2 upstream
[18:55] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ah.. its a grub issue?
[18:55] <cjwatson> I really really wouldn't advise it.  If you're qualified to put all the bits together then you don't need my help
[18:55] <cjwatson> grub is one of the issues
[18:55] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ok,what else?
[18:55] <cjwatson> 10.10 should make it easier
[18:56] <cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-btrfs-support
[18:56] <shadeslayer> hmm.. 10.10 is alpha :P
[18:56] <cjwatson> yes.
[18:56] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: they wont release a live cd for alpha will they :P
[18:56] <cjwatson> yes, we will.
[18:56] <cjwatson> alpha-1 won't have this grub patch though.
[18:56] <cjwatson> be patient!
[18:56] <cjwatson> btrfs is still heavily experimental upstream
[18:57] <shadeslayer> hmm.. ok :P
[18:58] <cjwatson> the reason we're trying to put bits together at the moment is so that we can start experimenting with the useful features and adding support for them in things like upgrade tools so that things are ready for when it's stable enough in the kernel, not because we want to recommend it for use by users
[18:59] <shadeslayer> hmm.. because its faster that ext4
[18:59] <cjwatson> it's a little bit more complicated than that
[18:59] <shadeslayer> ok :P
[19:00] <cjwatson> right now, unless you're actively developing btrfs itself or tools based on it, you shouldn't use it
[19:00] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: hmm ok thanks for the ton of info :D
[19:00] <cjwatson> you're welcome
[19:24] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: oh btw is there a way to boot the alternate CD off a USB drive?
[19:25] <shadeslayer> nvm..
[19:27] <shadeslayer> seems that its not supported
[21:42] <the-dude> cjwatson: thanks for the url earlyer its bookmarked now :) and it was usell
[21:42] <the-dude> usefull
[23:21] <cjwatson> the-dude: cool


[03:42] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:44] <Ahmuck-Sr> .
[16:16] <aidave> kabikaboo 1.7 now out!  https://launchpad.net/kabikaboo
[16:22] <sbalneav> I think we might need this:
[16:22] <sbalneav> http://git.gnome.org/browse/nanny/tree/
[16:22] <sbalneav> I'll see about packaging it.
[16:23] <alkisg> sbalneav: at some point you were thinking about packaging an easy to setup ldap template, for schools... care to pick it up? I'm willing to help as much as I can... :)
[20:08] <alkisg> I'm trying to setup LDAP for the first time. I can succesfully do `sudo ldapaddgroup test` but I cannot get `sudo ldapadduser test test` to work, it says "ldap_add: no such object (32)". Help?!
[20:09] <sbalneav> Which package are you using?
[20:09] <alkisg> I did: sudo apt-get -y install slapd ldap-utils ldapscripts
[20:10] <sbalneav> Ahhhh, ldapscripts :)
[20:10] <alkisg> Ah got it! The ubuntu guide was using "People" while ldapscripts is using "Users"...
[20:10] <sbalneav> yeah
[20:11] <sbalneav> the whole problem with ldap is everything ONLY works if you've got your database laid out the exact way the scripts want.
[20:11] <sbalneav> and there's NO standard for your ou's
[20:11] <sbalneav> so some use "users"
[20:11] <alkisg> I wonder why http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html doesn't mention this problem, though :(
[20:11] <sbalneav> some "Users"
[20:11] <sbalneav> some "People"
[20:12] <sbalneav> some just use uid= with no ou at all
[20:12] <alkisg> Uhm... I think I'll just use whatever the ldapscripts use, to minimize configuration file editing :D
[20:12] <sbalneav> alkisg: silly boy! You're just supposed to KNOW this!!!
[20:12] <sbalneav> I've been using ldap for 10+ years.
[20:13] <sbalneav> next to RS232, it's the most non-standard standard I've ever seen.
[20:13] <alkisg> Heh... I was trying to avoid using it for too long now :D
[20:13] <alkisg> ...but maybe I need to see it to better decide what's better...
[20:14] <sbalneav> You talk to any good enterprise sysadm, you'll find they all have their own highly customized shell scripts for dealing with their specific LDAP instance.
[20:14] <sbalneav> Well, the problem with LDAP is, it's well supported.
[20:15] <sbalneav> Everything can talk to ldap, problem is, you have to CUSTOMIZE everything to get it to talk to the way YOU layed out your ldap.
[20:15] <alkisg> Bah... we should make a package for easy ldap installation for schools!
[20:15] <alkisg> I think I saw some packages in synaptic for caching credentials, do they work OK when the server's down?
[20:15] <sbalneav> Well, it's not hard.
[20:16] <sbalneav> skolelinux does it.
[20:16] <sbalneav> you just pick a database layout
[20:16] <sbalneav> create a package that creates that layouyt
[20:16] <alkisg> Really?! Ah, I need to look at it for better compatibility then... they've probably thought about samba, too...
[20:16] <sbalneav> and patch ldaptools + any other ldap things to support that layout "out of the box:
[20:17] <sbalneav> it's not HARD
[20:17] <sbalneav> it's just... tedious
[20:17] <sbalneav> there's a lot of ldap tools.
[20:17] <sbalneav> or things that can talk to ldap.
[20:18] <alkisg> It's hard to get started with ldap... it'd be much easier if there was some easy-ldap package. ogra had started a spec about this I think 3 years ago, but it was never implemented...
[20:18] <sbalneav> Then you get told "Well, you shouldn't design an ldap database layout without talking to the server team"
[20:18] <sbalneav> and you talk to the server team, and 5 guys have 8 different ways they want to do the layout.
[20:18] <alkisg> Heh
[20:18] <sbalneav> And... here we are.
[20:18] <sbalneav> I was going to implement it.
[20:18] <sbalneav> I'm STILL willing to implement it.
[20:19] <alkisg> Well, there are many schools out there *without sysadmins or server teams* looking for an easy way to install ldap + nfs
[20:19] <alkisg> I'm willling to help however I can
[20:19] <sbalneav> it's EASY to implemnt.  Consensus is hard.
[20:19] <Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg>	Well, there are many schools out there *without sysadmins or server teams* looking for an easy way to install ldap + nfs
[20:19] <sbalneav> Lets talk about it at tomorrow's meeting.
[20:19] <Ahmuck-Sr> this is a correct statement
[20:19] <alkisg> sbalneav: nice :)
[20:19]  * Ahmuck-Sr has been on this soapbox for a while
[20:20] <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: did you get to install it?
[20:20] <sbalneav> LaserJock told me about bikeshedding.  You guys know what that is?
[20:20] <Ahmuck-Sr> isn't LDAP standard?
[20:20] <sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Yes and no
[20:20] <sbalneav> LDAP itself is standard.
[20:20] <sbalneav> just like SQL is standard.
[20:20] <sbalneav> how you design your DATABASE for access, isn't
[20:20] <alkisg> Heh... http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding
[20:20] <sbalneav> it's up to you
[20:21] <sbalneav> right, and ldap becomes the ultimate bikeshed.
[20:22] <sbalneav> EVERYbody has an opinion as to why a databse should use ou=People instead of ou=Users
[20:23] <alkisg> sbalneav: what tools are you using to manage users? ldapscripts?
[20:23] <sbalneav> Why you should use o=Greek Schools Division instead of dc=greek,dc=edu,dc=gk
[20:23] <sbalneav> alkisg: I have all my own custom scripts I've written, modified, and dragged with me for the last 10 years.
[20:24] <alkisg> Heh, at least that tells me that ldap is stable :D
[20:24] <sbalneav> Oh, it's a fine system
[20:24] <sbalneav> it works well.
[20:24] <alkisg> Is dc=school,dc=local acceptable to be used by all greek schools? :D
[20:25] <alkisg> If so, I'm good to go...
[20:28] <sbalneav> it's just the barrier to entry is SO FRIGGING HIGH
[20:28] <stgraber> sbalneav: are you using kerberos for password storage/policy or not yet ?
[20:28] <sbalneav> No, I don't use kerberos yet.
[20:29] <sbalneav> so I'm using pamldap for my auth
[20:29] <alkisg> Can ldap work without nfs?
[20:29] <sbalneav> Sure
[20:29] <alkisg> I.e. some package to create the local home dirs etc?
[20:30] <sbalneav> Sure, that's no problem.
[20:30] <sbalneav> *ALL* you need to solve this problem is to simply VOTE on a layout.  And then say, "screw everybody else, this is the layout we support"
[20:30] <stgraber> sbalneav: I deployed it on my LAN (80 or so VMs ;)) and it's freaking cool to be able to ssh to a server, then to another, then to another and never have to re-auth. Then when the ticket expires (once a day), I have to login again and that's it.
[20:31] <sbalneav> You want something other tthan this, you're on your own.
[20:31] <sbalneav> which is EXACTLY what skolellinux does
[20:31] <stgraber> sbalneav: also I have my IMAP server, web server and proxy using kerberos, so no need to login there too :)
[20:31] <sbalneav> yeah, I just need to sit down with it for a day and actually play with it.
[20:32] <alkisg> stgraber: do put something in the wiki about how to do all this... :)
[20:32] <sbalneav> That's why, curretnly , skolellinux is the ONLY one that actually SUPPORTS ldap
[20:32]  * alkisg should better copy skolelinux's layout, then...
[20:33] <sbalneav> I've actually looked at skolelinux's ldap packages
[20:33] <sbalneav> it's just a presees.
[20:33] <sbalneav> it's just a preseed
[20:33] <sbalneav> My thought was: just steal their stuff :)
[20:33] <sbalneav> do what they do
[20:34] <sbalneav> then edubuntu can auth against skolelinux auth servers, or vice versa
[20:36] <alkisg> Right. That's what I'd like to have in edubuntu, prepackaged solutions...
[20:56] <stgraber> alkisg: I'm not yet finished with looking at kerberos, I have the basics working but I need to connect it better with my LDAP
[20:57] <alkisg> It'd be nice to have such solutions in edubuntu, working out of the box...


[11:52] <Riddell> default settings in kubuntu too
[11:52] <Riddell> like the big question for dapper... do we have a splashscreen on amarok or not
[11:53] <manveru> hmm, according to the ultimate gui-guide it's better to have one
[11:53] <manveru> since it signals activity
[11:54] <manveru> but best would be to have it optional (not sure if it is so - i prefer splash anyway)
[11:54] <manveru> there are arguments against splash-screens? :)
[11:56] <djk_> they're not really useful..
[11:57] <djk_> unneccessary garbage to load ;)
[11:57] <manveru> i prefer it over staring one minute at a blank screen...
[11:57] <pv_> does amarok take one minute to start?
[11:58] <manveru> if something is expected to take a long time to start it _must_ have a splash-screen
[11:58] <djk_> well, it's not really "signaling activity" if it takes a minute now is it ;)
[11:58] <LeeJunFan> pv_: not here, but then I have a 64bit 3400 :)
[11:58] <manveru> never worked with some IDE like JEdit/Eclipse - right? ^^
[11:58] <djk_> pv_: amarok takes a few seconds here..p4 3200
[11:58] <djk_> manveru: me?
[11:59] <LeeJunFan> pv_: how many mp3's do you have in your collection also? I've also got mine setup to use mysql, which may help it speed up a bit.
[11:59] <manveru> well, my amaroK takes about 20-30 sekonds to start
[11:59] <djk_> manveru: i have, but then i decided i don't like java ;)
[12:00] <manveru> oh hell - i'm KDE-addicted, i say seKonds...
[12:00] <manveru> djk_: well, that's the fact for every IDE out there, they just have lots of stuff to load - and i don't code java, but ruby - so i'm glad i don't depend on them
[12:01] <djk_> manveru: i just think that loading a splashscreen may slow down loading the prog, thus unneccessary garbage.
[12:02] <manveru> i guess that might take... 0.01 seconds or something
[12:02] <libben> how can i spin down a hd? is it bad to spin it down?
[12:02] <manveru> and it's faster in a subjective way (the way a human sees it)


[05:47] <lamont> doko: hppa's toolchain has an issue or 23
[05:47] <lamont> gcc -shared -Wl,-soname,libz.so.1 -lc -o libz.so.1.2.3 adler32.o compress.o crc32.o gzio.o uncompr.o deflate.o trees.o zutil.o inflate.o infback.o inftrees.o inffast.o
[05:47] <lamont> using 3.4
[05:47] <lamont> produces a .so that has _GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_ defined, which it absolutely should not.
[05:48] <lamont> thoughts?
[07:05] <lamont> doko_: and using 4.0
[07:11] <fabbione> lamont: it's probably binutils fuckage
[07:11] <fabbione> same as sparc and alpha
[07:40] <lamont> fabbione: yeah
[01:01] <doko> lamont, infinity: please fix the i386 buildd, dpkg is segfaulting again :-/ the OOo2 -ubuntu6 build did work, but -ubuntu7 fails again ...
[03:25] <lamont> doko: AFAIK, the cause of dpkg segving is unknown.  OOo2 being the prime example of a package that initiates it
[03:26] <doko> should I file a bug report?
[03:26] <doko> lamont: requeued?
[03:28] <lamont> ISTR there might already be a bug open
[03:29] <elmo> please make sure there is, dpkg sigsev == pain
[03:30] <lamont> elmo: OTOH, it seems to be vernadsky each time...
[03:30] <lamont> so I've stopped buildd there, cleaned the chroot, and given oo.o2 back
[03:31] <lamont> elmo: if you're in the DC, some memtest love on vernadsky might be good
[03:35] <elmo> memtest doesn't work on that machine
[03:37] <doko> elmo, lamont: submitted as 13306
[03:38] <elmo> or that machine class
[03:40] <lamont> elmo: feh
[03:40] <elmo> yeah, rocks doesn't it
[03:40] <elmo> is it at all reproduceable?
[03:40] <elmo> 'cos we can invoke keybuk's mad debugging skillz, he can probably tell if it's bad memory
[03:41] <lamont> elmo: infinity knows more about it
[03:41] <elmo> ok
[03:41] <lamont> I'm just parroting him on the subject.
[03:52] <doko> lamont: please requeue debhelper (if that helps ...)
[03:53] <doko> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
[03:53] <doko> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:53] <doko>   file: Depends: libmagic1 (= 4.12-1) but it is not going to be installed
[03:53] <doko>         Depends: libmagic1 but it is not going to be installed
[03:53] <doko>   libgl1-xorg-dev: Depends: xlibmesa-gl (= 6.8.2-44)
[03:53] <doko> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
[03:53] <doko> Build environment unusable, giving back
[03:53] <lamont> yeah, it looks to have been a victim of oo.o2
[03:54] <doko> s/oo.o2/dpkg/memory/g
[04:14] <elmo> lamont: btw, ia64's not doing dailies; not sure if you know/care
[04:15] <lamont> elmo: I turned them off, since they're worthless without a kernel
[04:15] <elmo> ok
[06:08] <infinity> The dpkg segv is NOT bad RAM.
[06:08] <infinity> I can reliably reproduce it here on two machines, one ppc32 and one i386.
[06:08] <infinity> And it's happened on several buildds.
[06:09] <infinity> And debugging with Keybuk got nowhere. :/
[06:14] <jbailey> infinity: Is there a nicer testcase than OOo2?
[06:15] <infinity> I have yet to slim it down to a tiny testcase, but you should be able to reproduce it 100% with "debootstrap a clean variant=buildd breezy chroot ; apt-get install libqt3-mt-dev mesag-dev'
[06:16] <infinity> Somewhere along the way, the stack gets hideously smashed, and the backtrace on the core is utterly useless.
[06:16] <infinity> And the assumption that it may be a GCC bug went out the window when I rebuilt with 3.4 and 3.3 (and maybe 2.95 as well, don't recall now) with the same results.
[06:17] <infinity> With any luck, the archive hasn't changed enough since the last time I played to make that testcase invalid.
[06:18] <infinity> (tests now)
[06:19] <elmo> if you need a snapshot  of the archive, let me know - it's important we be able to reproduce this
[06:20] <infinity> I'll let you know when my bandwidth catches up with my brain.
[06:23] <infinity> Yup, that testcase still works smashingly.
[06:23] <infinity> elmo : If you want to snapshot the state of the union as it is right now, it happily segv's.
[07:22] <doko> jbailey, infinity: did you already start bootstrapping the biarch builds?
[07:36] <jbailey> doko: No, I haven't hunted down that g++-4.0 bug yet.
[07:39] <doko> jabiley: we can stop building the lib64stdc++ packages for now, then the bootstrap dance can be done now, and fabbione can build a kernel, when he'S back
[07:40] <lamont> doko/jbailey: any ideas on the _GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_ crap that hppa is seeing with the current binutils and gcc-{3.4,4.0}?
[07:40] <doko> lamont: it's not seen with gcc-3.3 ?
[07:41] <lamont> haven't checked
[07:42] <lamont> and probably won't have time before I leave in the morning... -> next week for me to test things out.
[07:42] <lamont> building zlib produces a bad libz.so.1
[07:43] <lamont> and that's a quick testcase
[07:50] <jbailey> doko: Well, it won't kill bootstrap we could even leave it in, which would let me hand over what I have now I guess.
[07:51] <doko> yes, that would be nice
[10:07] <elmo> lamont/infinity: terranova is back; with a newer kernel
[10:18] <lamont> elmo: woiot
[10:18] <lamont>  /me goes to kick that buildd
[10:24] <lamont> launched


[17:48] -BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Remove convoy as a dependency of MAAS @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=26be527c5e253eb117097104384d1a9f6d3633d4 (by Adam Collard)
[18:56] <ItPlayzzzDaveYT> Hello!
[22:17] <Unit193> bluesabre: Err...thunar got missed.


[07:48] <LaRueGT> is there a linux friendly chord progression helper, like harmony navigator or harmony improvisator?
[07:55] <zequence> LaRueGT: Yep. and that's you
[07:55] <zequence> Don't know if there is one, but you could make one in pd
[07:56] <zequence> And any other language too, of course
[07:56] <LaRueGT> too lazy
[07:56] <zequence> Still, the best method is probably to learn the piano, and start doing some basic stuff. Give it a couple of months, and it'll be perfectly natural
[07:56] <LaRueGT> guess the solution is one of those mobile apps
[07:58] <zequence> Guitar works too, but it's a bit harder to translate the chords to software later
[07:58] <LaRueGT> i got a midi board but im terrible at it
[07:58] <zequence> And you don't get an overview of the notes you use
[07:59] <zequence> LaRueGT: Start with the basics. The four chords. C, G, am, F
[08:00] <zequence> There should be some good piano guide out there somewhere
[08:01] <zequence> The trick is to not jump up and down with the hand over the keyboard. You move the hand as little as possible, and take the notes as closely as they come
[08:02] <zequence> Which means, you don't always keep your thumb on the base note, so to speak.
[08:03] <zequence> I'm telling you. To learn that would just take you a couple of days
[08:05] <zequence> I'm actually going to write a song maker software that will be able to do everything randomly, if you wish
[08:06] <zequence> There are so many parameters in music that people don't choose to do anything with anyway
[08:06] <zequence> In some ways, a computer would be much more creative than a person could ever be, if the software is well programmed
[09:02] <LaRueGT> http://sf.remixta.net/
[09:02] <LaRueGT> I think that is the thing I was sorta looking for
[14:21] <cfhowlett> Why does this happen?  Produced a video with openshot; 25 mb.  used ffmpeg to embed the metadata.  no other changes.  13.5 mb result...
[20:30] <kobra> Hola