[12:24] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[12:34] <Kyral> gah
[12:34] <Kyral> I cannot upload
[12:34] <Kyral> directly...
[12:35] <crimsun> ...to?
[12:35] <Kyral> Oh anything really
[12:36] <Kyral> but this means most of my package devel is shot for a while
[12:36] <crimsun> how are you trying to upload?
[12:36] <crimsun> I use scp for most everything
[12:36] <Kyral> crimsun
[12:36] <Kyral> I had a most odd problem
[12:37] <Kyral> you see. My desktop's wireless lost its friendship with DNS
[12:37] <Kyral> IP works fine. But anything to do with DNS...nope
[12:38] <crimsun> can you resolve anything at all?
[12:38] <Kyral> Nope
[12:38] <Kyral> example
[12:38] <crimsun> for instance, host cnn.com <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:39] <Kyral> nope
[12:39] <Kyral> I cannot ping cnn.com
[12:39] <Kyral> however I can ping <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:41] <Kyral> and traceroute whatever
[12:41] <Kyral> interesting no?
[12:41] <tseng> ..can you ping your prefered dns server?
[12:41] <Kyral> I can ping any IP
[12:41] <crimsun> that host command doesn't work?
[12:41] <Kyral> including the DNS
[12:41] <Kyral> nope
[12:42] <Kyral> doesn't work
[12:42] <Mez> hmm - I need a little help with some packaging - it seems to be really broked :D
[12:42] <tseng> so switch your dns
[12:42] <Kyral> I tried
[12:42] <Mez> I cant get *.install files working
[12:42] <tseng> <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:42] <crimsun> sounds like your router/ISP is blocking 53
[12:42] <Kyral> Actually it isn't
[12:42] <Mez> tseng: still having problems with it ... :D
[12:42] <Kyral> because 1) My sister's laptop (on XP) is fine
[12:42] <tseng> Mez: dude i told you where to look
[12:42] <Kyral> and 2) My laptop on UBuntu Dapper is fine
[12:42] <Mez> tseng: I know - and godamn I've looked :D
[12:43] <Mez> but it still doesnt want to work and I cant see what I'm missing
[12:43] <Kyral> this morning I realized that I could still use my SSH connection to my laptop (and vice versa) within the Network
[12:44] <Kyral> so after a couple hours of trying to forward my laptop's DNS through to my desktop. I realized I was being quite stupid
[12:44] <crimsun> Kyral: following a reboot?
[12:45] <Kyral> crimsun: I worked on this all last night and NOTHING
[12:45] <Mez> tseng: remind me of the package again so i can have another look ?
[12:45] <Kyral> I even hit it with an Ethereal trace
[12:45] <Kyral> the DNS packet is going out
[12:45] <Kyral> but nothing is coming back
[12:47] <crimsun> if it's not getting beyond your router, you'll know the problem is local
[12:47] <Kyral> I have no idea why
[12:48] <Kyral> It is going beyond my router
[12:48] <Kyral> but something is unique to my computer, my wireless card
[12:49] <Kyral> My MAC prolly wound up on a blacklist somewhere
[12:50] <Kyral> I just hope that it didn't affect my Ethernet so when I go back to school all will be well
[12:51] <Kyral> anyway. I realized. My laptop can get to the Net. And I can access my laptop over SSH
[12:51] <Kyral> so I installed FreeNX on the laptop, scp'd the client deb over to the desktop, and bam. I have internet on my desktop...kinda :P
[12:52] <Kyral> but it puts a damper on any direct uploads from my desktop...
[12:54] <Kyral> still need to find out whats going on..but *shrug*
[12:55] <Mez> siretart: ping
[12:56] <Kyral> anyone ever hear of DNS problems to only one computer in a LAN?
[01:00] <siretart> Mez: pong
[01:01] <Mez> siretart: I'm getting an error 553 when trying to upload to REVU
[01:01] <Mez> something going on with it
[01:01] <Mez> ?
[01:01] <crimsun> speaking of which, I simply can't recover my pass for REVU
[01:05] <Mez> crimsun - I had that problem
[01:05] <Mez> I think it still encrypts to siretart ?
[01:14] <siretart> err 533?
[01:14] <siretart> thats strange
[01:14] <siretart> who wanted to upload unrealtournament?!
[01:15] <siretart> Mez: if you wanted to upload katapult, please retry
[01:15] <Mez> siretart: I guess it was a problem with disk space
[01:16] <Mez> night siretart
[01:16] <crimsun> night siretart
[01:16] <Kyral> night siretart
[01:16] <Mez> thanks for the help siretart !
[01:41] <crimsun> wtf
[01:51] <crimsun> hi michael, good holidays?
[02:01] <tritium> Hi crimsun.  Yes, very good.  Yours?  Sorry for the delay.  I didn't see a nick highlight ;)
[02:02] <crimsun> tritium: not bad, just doing some alsa commits locally
[02:02] <tritium> :)
[02:59] <psusi> so.. I've got me a source package unpacked with apt-get... I'm fixing the source... how can I build it into a .deb I can install and test, then how can I send the fixes to be included in the next release?
[02:59] <crimsun_> psusi: assuming you've bumped the version in debian/changelog, just debuild -S
[03:00] <psusi> ok... explain it to me like I'm 4 years old... I don't really have a good understanding of debian packages other than they are tarballs with install and remove scripts ;)
[03:00] <crimsun_> then debdiff foo1.dsc foo2.dsc > foo2.debdiff   (where foo2 is your modified one)
[03:00] <psusi> debuild eh?  hrm... let me see...
[03:00] <crimsun_> do you have a pbuilder configured?
[03:01] <psusi> hrm... I don't think so... I just apt-get source package
[03:01] <crimsun_> oh, you'll want to configure a pbuilder first, then.
[03:01] <psusi> ok... how/what is that?
[03:01] <bur[n] er> has anyone played with Rox-filer 2.4 yet?
[03:02] <crimsun_> psusi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[03:02] <crimsun_> bur[n] er: I'm working on the merge
[03:03] <crimsun_> it's a bit problematic, and I need to coordinate w/ Frankie
[03:03] <crimsun_> partially because we need the patch so it doesn't crash with GTK+ >= 2.8.9
[03:03] <crimsun_> psusi: many of the tips here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUWannabeTips ) are relevant
[03:04] <bur[n] er> cool... thanks for the quick feedback crimsun_ :)
[03:07] <seth_k|lappy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1317 can be archived; anthony didn't notice the package was already uploaded.
[03:08] <Mez> seth_k|lappy, done
[03:10] <seth_k|lappy> cheers Mez
[03:10] <seth_k|lappy> ( :D )
[03:10] <Mez> :P
[03:10] <seth_k|lappy> hehe
[03:10] <seth_k|lappy> how's Katapult coming
[03:11] <seth_k|lappy> I demand a 0.3.1
[03:11] <psusi> hrm... so this thing sets up a chroot environment where the package is copied to, then does the configure, make, make install, and looks to see what files in the chroot the make install changed, and puts those into the binary package?
[03:12] <crimsun_> psusi: pbuilder is just a build environment; you're still responsible for maintaining the debian infrastructure for it
[03:13] <Mez> seth_k|lappy, it's not tht far away - thats what it'll be when we drop out of baz snapshots :D
[03:13] <Mez> lol
[03:13] <Mez> but er ...
[03:13] <Mez> lol - well :D I can't say when that'll be
[03:13] <Mez> but - if you wanna ask for stuff etc :D feel free
[03:13] <Mez> what do you think can be improved
[03:14] <seth_k|lappy> I wish it were more aggressive about picking up the links in my K menu
[03:14] <seth_k|lappy> a lot of them it can't find, dunno why
[03:14] <Mez> seth_k|lappy, newly added ones?
[03:14] <seth_k|lappy> not really
[03:15] <seth_k|lappy> several weeks old :P
[03:15] <Mez> yeah it doesnt update regularly
[03:15] <Mez> seth_k|lappy, has katapult been re-started since then
[03:15] <seth_k|lappy> yeah
[03:15] <seth_k|lappy> mm, not several weeks, hold that
[03:15] <seth_k|lappy> I just re-installed that app
[03:15] <seth_k|lappy> but a considerable measure of time
[03:15] <Mez> lol
[03:16] <Mez> it needs to be restarted before it picks them up :(
[03:16] <seth_k|lappy> so it actually caches the contents of the K Menu?
[03:16] <Mez> thats something wer're working on
[03:16] <Mez> atm yeah
[03:16] <seth_k|lappy> ok
[03:16] <Mez> if only the dcop interface for the MenuManager worked we'd be sorted
[03:16] <Mez> but it doesnt
[03:16] <Mez> or is it just for me
[03:16] <Mez> try this
[03:16] <Mez> /exec -o dcop kicker MenuManager
[03:18] <psusi> I hate being kicked by de cops man... ;)
[03:22] <Mez> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1332
[03:23] <seth_k|lappy> nope, that didn't update it
[03:24] <Mez> weird
[03:24] <Mez> submit  bug in malone with more info
[03:24] <Mez> https://launchpad.net/products/katapult/+filebug
[03:43] <zakame> If I intend to package something that was previously missing in Debian that I want in Ubuntu, and during the time I was packaging this there came a version already in Debian, can I still continue my packaging?
[03:43] <crimsun_> of course, just be sure to base your package off Debian's
[03:44] <crimsun_> you're free to stuff all the changes [within reason]  into .diff.gz
[03:44] <crimsun_> I mean, you /could/ continue to use your own package, but beware the maintenance nightmares come Ongoing Merge-time
[03:44] <zakame> well its NEW, so my packaging is entirely different from debian's
[03:45] <crimsun_> then it's up to you.
[03:45] <crimsun_> I /strongly/ recommend you coordinate with the Debian maintainer(s)
[03:45] <crimsun_> ultimately you want to be able to just push your changes to them so the autosync will kick in
[03:46] <zakame> ah... yes, I pinged the Debian team to see if they're still willing to have other co-maintainers
[03:46] <crimsun_> otherwise the maintenance beast is hairy.
[03:59] <hub> hi
[04:02] <zakame> hi hub
[04:06] <Mez> hey hub
[04:06] <Mez> hows things?
[04:06] <hub> fine
[04:08] <Mez> good good
[04:43] <hub> I'm having pain with atheros driver
[04:53] <Amaranth> oh man, i hope the gateway i'm getting is the full centrino platform
[04:53] <Amaranth> i don't want to mess with ndiswrapper
[04:56] <Lathiat> hrm was unrar-nonfree removed?
[05:23] <hub> Amaranth: centrino HAS free drivers
[05:23] <Lathiat> hub: "i hope... is the full centrino platform"
[05:23] <hub> ah
[05:23] <hub> misread
[05:23] <Lathiat> some people have like a centrino cpu
[05:23] <Lathiat> and throw a broadcom card in or whatever
[05:24] <hub> Lathiat: like my thinkpad
[05:24] <Amaranth> it's a pentium m cpu ;)
[05:24] <hub> an atheros shit
[05:24] <Amaranth> it won't be called a centrino solo/duo until the yonah comes out
[05:25] <Amaranth> hub: does it have a centrino sticker on it?
[05:26] <Amaranth> if it does i'd tell intel, they'll kick some ass
[05:35] <hub> it does not
[05:35] <hub> but the website advertised Intel Wireless
[05:55] <Mez> evening Amaranth, long time no speak
[05:55] <Mez> how do things go ?
[05:55] <Amaranth> eh
[05:55] <Amaranth> i'm stuck on OS X :P
[05:56] <Mez> LiveCD ?
[05:56] <Amaranth> broadcom
[05:56] <Mez> ah
[05:56] <Mez> ew
[05:56] <Mez> *huggles*
[05:56] <Mez> OSX isnt too bad though
[05:56] <Mez> hough the bling makes my eyes hurt
[05:56] <Amaranth> no, that's what i'm afraid of
[05:57] <Amaranth> if it's good enough, why switch back? :P
[05:57] <hub> Amaranth: there is a driver that almost work
[05:57] <hub> Amaranth: for the rest....
[05:57] <Amaranth> hub: I've tried it.
[05:57] <Amaranth> I mean, only on Ubuntu can I write little programs, get them into the distro, and have thousands of people worship me. :D
[05:57] <Amaranth> so that's a plus
[05:58] <Mez> Amaranth - I'm sur eyou can in debian too :D
[05:58] <Amaranth> debian is too slow
[05:58] <Amaranth> i need python 2.4, gnome 2.12, and pyxdg 0.15
[05:58] <Mez> hmm
[05:58] <Mez> smeg isnt in debian ?
[05:58] <Amaranth> they have none of these
[05:58] <Amaranth> an old version might be
[05:58] <Mez> Amaranth, none of it is
[05:58] <Amaranth> i guess it didn't make it
[05:59] <Amaranth> i'm about to drop alacarte and work on gnome-menu-editor though
[05:59] <crimsun> you need to run unstable/experimental, then
[05:59] <Mez> Amaranth: mind if I file an ITP for it - as I'm trying to become a DD - I want to get as many progs in as possible under my name :D
[05:59] <Mez> lol - and I hope to work with utnubu at some point :D
[05:59] <Amaranth> the pyxdg dev has gone missing
[06:00] <Mez> If I can find a contact for them
[06:00] <Amaranth> so either i take over working on it or i make gnome-menu-editor not suck
[06:00] <dereks_> SloMoSnail: ping
[06:00] <Lathiat> anyone know when 2.6.15 is slated for release?
[06:01] <Mez> Amaranth, which package is pyxdg in ?
[06:01] <Amaranth> python-xdg
[06:01] <Mez> ah - I was looking for pyxdg :D
[06:01] <dereks_> is anyone else having stability problems with banshee?
[06:01] <crimsun> banshee was a bit crashy last time I checked
[06:02] <dereks_> crimsun: yeah, crashes when i do anything :)
[06:02] <Mez> Amaranth, seb128 is the maintainer for pyxdg - he's around still  I saw him the other day
[06:02] <crimsun> wasn't /that/ crashy for me
[06:02] <dereks_> just making sure it wasn't me
[06:02] <Amaranth> Mez: I'm talking about upstream.
[06:02] <crimsun> seb is very much alive n' kickin'
[06:02] <Amaranth> Mez: seb128 just packages a new version when i poke him and tell him it's out :)
[06:02] <Mez> ah
[06:03] <Mez> Amaranth: python 2.4.1 is in stable
[06:03] <Amaranth> sure, but python still loads python 2.3, no?
[06:03] <Amaranth> and python-foo deps on python2.3-foo
[06:03] <Amaranth> or did they finally finish?
[06:04] <crimsun> no, they're still on 2.3
[06:04] <Amaranth> anyway, bzflag time
[07:00] <hub> about to upload wv 1.2.0
[07:00] <hub> because AbiWord use it
[08:24] <Yagisan> evening all
[08:24] <minghua> hello Yagisan
[08:26] <Yagisan> minghua: do you have an amd64 box ?
[08:26] <minghua> Yagisan: no, I am a poor student :-P
[08:27] <Yagisan> minghua: oh, I was looking for a volunteer to test http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1335
[08:27] <minghua> Yagisan: trying to find someone testing your hydration process?
[08:28] <Yagisan> minghua: I am severely limited in my bandwidth until around Jan 10, so I get try to get someone to suck down the final sources
[08:29] <Yagisan> minghua: Of my package changes
[08:29] <Yagisan> minghua: which then automagically integrate themselves into the source
[08:30] <Yagisan> minghua: look at the size of the diff on that package O:-)
[08:31] <minghua> Yagisan: is this hydration thing documented anywhere?
[08:33] <Yagisan> minghua: yep, very briefly in README.build of this package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1329
[08:34] <Yagisan> minghua: I went for the dehydration, rehydration metaphor - as I can ship a small package to someone with bandwidth
[08:34] <Yagisan> minghua: and it can bulk up to correct size, like some items do when you add water
[08:35] <minghua> Yagisan: yeah, I like that metaphor
[08:36] <Yagisan> minghua: I'm using it for proof of concept in getting some i386 only apps to run on amd64
[08:36] <Yagisan> minghua: At least until we have real multiarch
[08:36] <minghua> Yagisan: it seems that README.build file is truncated?
[08:37] <zakame> hello all :D
[08:37] <zakame> er do we now have hppa among the build daemons?
[08:37] <zakame> sparc even
[08:37] <Yagisan> minghua: more likely is I got distracted by the kids when typing and just shipped the package
[08:38] <crimsun> zakame: yes, and yes, but only i386, ppc, and amd64 are official
[08:38] <zakame> ah
[08:38] <zakame> crimsun: I saw them on the buildlogs for iterm, was a bit surprised :)
[08:38] <Yagisan> minghua: as I will make further uploads in future, I'll fix it then. First paragraph is all you need to do though
[08:39] <crimsun> i.e., if ftbfs on hppa and/or sparc, you'll just get a stare from lamont and/or fabbione
[08:39] <minghua> Yagisan: I think I more or less get the idea
[08:39] <zakame> ooh
[08:39] <zakame> is ia64 also not official?
[08:40] <zakame> (since that's what I usually see, plus the three above)
[08:40] <Yagisan> minghua: I got a rather creative version going for zsnes.
[08:40] <zakame> brb
[08:41] <Yagisan> minghua: I think you'd like my awful, but effective hack to the zsnes rules file
[08:43] <minghua> Yagisan: interesting, but can't say I like it
[08:47] <Yagisan> minghua: really ? get's it going though - and zsnes is something that just can't be ported
[08:48] <minghua> Yagisan: yeah, I am sure it works and I'm not against it.  I just generally don't like quick'n'dirty hacks
[08:58] <zakame> back
[08:58] <zakame> so ia64 isn't official right?
[08:59] <Lathiat> right
[08:59] <zakame> ah k
[08:59] <zakame> should close iterm then ;)
[09:00] <Lathiat> hrm how come when i add some devices to a raid1 array they dont get resynced
[09:19] <zakame> hm do we really need a pkgname change to libibtik -> libibtk0c2
[09:26] <ajmitch> evening
[09:27] <zakame> hi ajmitch :D happy new year
[09:28] <ajmitch> thanks
[09:28] <ajmitch> so what have I missed over the last week? :)
[09:29] <zakame> hm that we have just 4 unassigned merges to do? :)
[09:29] <zakame> (though there's some 200 more assigned)
[09:30] <ajmitch> 2 of those unassigned will probably be dropped
[09:30] <zakame> the kernel-di?
[09:30] <ajmitch> and I've got maybe 1/4 of the assigned merges to do in the next week
[09:30] <ajmitch> yes
[09:30] <zakame> ooh
[09:31] <zakame> hehe
[09:32] <ajmitch> ok, I've got to go & get some food, I'll talk in an hour or so :)
[09:32] <Yagisan> don't worry ajmitch, I'm sure they will find plenty for you to do.
[09:32] <zakame> go go go
[09:33] <zakame> OT: what would be a good http caching proxy to use? I see wwoffle, polipo, and squid among my apt-cache...
[09:34] <Yagisan> zakame: squid is popular, heaps of docs on it
[09:34] <minghua> squid is the standard one from what I heard
[09:35] <zakame> indeed squid is, but this is just for home ;) and one machine
[09:35] <Lathiat> bleh, mdadm if you try resize a raid1 to 1 disk whinges says thats unusual, use --force you use --force and it says invalid in grow mode :(
[09:35] <Lathiat> anyone seen that before?
[09:35] <zakame> waah
[09:37] <Yagisan> bbl
[09:37] <minghua> zakame: if just for building packages, maybe try apt-proxy?
[09:37] <zakame> minghua: not just that, though that's on my list too ;)
[09:38] <minghua> apt-proxy serves me well, so I don't need an http proxy :-)
[09:39] <zakame> rocking, I'll try that later :-)
[09:40] <zakame> I just got pdnsd + resolvconf working so I don't need to twiddle /etc/resolv.conf everytime I move to cafes
[10:09] <siretart> morning ajmitch
[10:10] <ajmitch> hey siretart!
[10:10] <ajmitch> good to see you
[10:10] <ajmitch> how have things been around here lately?
[10:11] <siretart> For me things have been rather quiet, because of the holidays and the fact that I will be skiing next week :)
[10:12] <ajmitch> oh wonderful :)
[10:12] <zakame> wb ajmitch
[10:12] <ajmitch> I've been completely away from computers for a week
[10:12] <siretart> but I finally managed to start NM, now I'm waiting for an AM
[10:12] <ajmitch> which has been good
[10:12] <ajmitch> yay!
[10:12] <siretart> huhu zakame
[10:13] <ajmitch> so in a year or two you might be a DD :)
[10:13] <ajmitch> current waits for AMs is 2+ months
[10:13] <ajmitch> unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks
[10:13] <siretart> the NM statistics say 160 days
[10:13] <zakame> siretart: w00t
[10:13] <ajmitch> ouch
[10:13] <ajmitch> so 5+ months just to get an AM
[10:14] <ajmitch> you got an advocate ok?
[10:14] <siretart> well, in that time, I will have to keep on looking for sponsors. not that much of a problem
[10:14] <ajmitch> yeah
[10:14] <siretart> yes, nobse advocated me
[10:14] <ajmitch> great
[10:14] <siretart> he usually sponsors me for debian uploads
[10:15] <siretart> huhu StevenK
[10:15] <StevenK> ajmitch: Ready to get stuck into Ubuntu work? All of the merging is basically done.
[10:16] <ajmitch> StevenK: 219 are assigned
[10:16] <ajmitch> and we've got a *lot* more to do after merges
[10:16] <StevenK> Can you go through it?
[10:16] <zakame> (well, at least until elmo does the sync ;)
[10:16] <siretart> does anyone have pointers why debian is still with python 2.3 as default?
[10:16] <ajmitch> I've also got main feature goals to hit
[10:16] <ajmitch> siretart: ask doko
[10:17] <ajmitch> it's waiting on his python-central stuff
[10:17] <ajmitch> which was deferred until around now
[10:17] <ajmitch> once that big change hits debian & ubuntu, the 2.3->2.4 delta will go away
[10:18] <Lathiat> python-central?
[10:18] <ajmitch> Lathiat: yep
[10:18] <ajmitch> Lathiat: btw hi ;)
[10:18] <Lathiat> what that? :)
[10:18] <Lathiat> ajmitch: hi :)
[10:18] <ajmitch> wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonRoadmap
[10:18] <siretart> that would take away a great deal of divergence we currently have
[10:20] <siretart> ah, so that is what he is waiting for.. I see
[10:21] <ajmitch> well, he's not waiting for it
[10:21] <ajmitch> he's doing it :)
[10:21] <zakame> hm for shlibs, is it ok just to have something like libXYZ (>= 1.4.0.b9) than libXYZ (>= 1.4) ?
[10:22] <ajmitch> zakame: I think so, check the man pages ;)
[10:23] <zakame> ok, thanks ajmitch :)
[10:23] <ajmitch> sad to see people flaming about nexenta on the devel list
[10:23] <zakame> 'coz I decided to push libmemcache to debian instead of universe :)
[10:24] <zakame> yeah, snr just got a bit higher :(
[10:38] <siretart> ajmitch: I find that other thread, about the fluedo plugin similar annoying..
[10:38] <ajmitch> certainly
[02:29] <Gloubiboulga> hello
[02:29] <Gloubiboulga> could any MOTU have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1315 ? Thanks :)
[02:39] <Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: I'm not MOTU, but it might be nicer to have "Texmaker integrates..." instead of "It integrates..."
[02:41] <Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: in the description
[02:41] <Gloubiboulga> Hieronymus, indeed
[02:41] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: it's qt, why didn't you say so.  poke me for qt/kde stuff :)
[02:41] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: clic -> click
[02:44] <Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: the .desktop has an absolute path to the icon
[02:44] <Riddell> yes, that line should be "click and a "structure view" of the document for easier navigation."
[02:44] <Hieronymus> you want Icon=texmaker
[02:44] <Hieronymus> not Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/texmaker.xpm
[02:45] <Hieronymus> also, you must specify Version=0.9.4
[02:45] <Gloubiboulga> ok ok
[02:45] <Hieronymus> you can use desktop-file-validate :)
[02:47] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: the icon should probably be PNG
[02:47] <siretart> Riddell: Say, why does the current amarok package have such strict builddeps on kdelibs?
[02:48] <Riddell> siretart: libstdc++ transition maybe?
[02:49] <siretart> and there is another annoying builddep on libtunepimp2-dev
[02:49] <Hieronymus> oh, and in debian/copyright, I think you should say that /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 is the GNU General Public License Version 2, not the GNU General Public License.
[02:49] <siretart> Riddell: if I make them unversioned, I can rebuild the package in breezy. it works here quite nicely
[02:49] <siretart> Riddell: I'm asking because if those versioned depends were dropped, I think it would be a candidate for breezy-backports
[02:50] <Riddell> kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.5-rc2)  that will be the libstdc++ transition
[02:51] <Gloubiboulga> Hieronymus, Riddell  thanks
[02:52] <siretart> Riddell: what do you think, can we take them out? kde has already been transitioned
[02:52] <Riddell> siretart: yep, go ahead and change it if you want.  or I can do it
[02:53] <siretart> Riddell: ok, will do it
[02:53] <siretart> just a sek
[02:57] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: since it's "gpl 2 or later" you can point to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL not /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
[02:59] <Goshawk_> hi
[03:00] <Goshawk_> i've a litte repo, there i uploaded one package for amd64, now i want to build the one for x86, is there a way to accomplish this?
[03:01] <Goshawk_> i've also a x86 connected to the web (and so it can reach the repo)
[03:01] <Hieronymus> Goshawk_: you can run x86 on 64+ Athlons
[03:03] <Goshawk_> yep, but in this 64 i've just ubuntu 64
[03:03] <Goshawk_> breezy x86 is on another pc
[03:03] <Goshawk_> is there a command that et the source from my repo
[03:03] <Goshawk_> and compile it?
[03:03] <siretart> Riddell: I just fired up a new amarok with weakened build deps.
[03:03] <Goshawk_> then i'll dupload it
[03:03] <Goshawk_> and all will be well done
[03:05] <Riddell> Goshawk_: apt-get source foo
[03:05] <Riddell> or wget the source
[03:05] <Riddell> Goshawk_: you can use a 32bit chroot on amd64
[03:07] <Goshawk_> uhm... 32 bit chroot is a good solution
[03:08] <Goshawk_> is there a tutorial?
[03:08] <tseng> man debootstrap
[03:08] <Goshawk_> it will be like a toolchain (that is not good mainteined in ubuntu)
[03:09] <tseng> ...what?
[03:09] <Goshawk_> yep
[03:09] <Goshawk_> in breezy toolchain-source
[03:09] <Goshawk_> has binutils at 2.15
[03:09] <Goshawk_> and gcc-3.4
[03:10] <Goshawk_> while breezy has gcc-4.0
[03:10] <Goshawk_> and binutils 2.16
[03:10] <tseng> (what in the world are you talking about)
[03:10] <tseng> apt-get source gcc
[03:10] <Goshawk_> and people say that is not a good thing compile things with gcc-3.4 and mix them with gcc-4.0
[03:10] <tseng> gcc-4.0
[03:11] <Goshawk_> i'm talking about cross compiling with toolchain
[03:11] <Lathiat> neither was tseng?
[03:14] <Goshawk_> tseng, but after that i build a chroot with debootstrap should i compile all the libs or can i use apt-get?
[03:15] <tseng> i have no idea what you are on about at this point
[03:15] <tseng> if you make a 32 bit chroot with debootstrap, chroot to it, you can install things with apt and use them 32 bit
[03:15] <Goshawk_> ok.. you got me
[03:15] <tseng> 'linux32 chroot /chroot/breezy32'
[03:16] <tseng> should work pretty much as expected
[03:16] <Goshawk_> this seems the easiest way
[03:16] <tseng> until multilib, yet
[03:16] <tseng> *yes
[03:16] <Goshawk_> instead if i should compile for ppc i need a toolchain, isn't it?
[03:28] <siretart> Goshawk_: better avoid cross compiling, if you can
[03:28] <zakame> evening all :D
[03:28] <siretart> Goshawk_: debian packages are generally not expected to be crosscompiled. there are many pitfalls on the way
[03:29] <zakame> wow elmo's back :)
[03:29] <Goshawk_> siretart, i've just a amd64 laptop, and i need ppc package (in an early future)
[03:29] <siretart> Goshawk_: get a ppc
[03:30] <siretart> Goshawk_: or ask someone with a ppc to build your package
[03:30] <siretart> huhu zakame. yes, he answered our sync requests :)
[03:30] <Goshawk_> siretart, why not a toolchain with toolchain-source?
[03:30] <siretart> 15:28:32 < siretart> Goshawk_: debian packages are generally not expected to be crosscompiled. there are many pitfalls on the way
[03:31] <zakame> YAY!
[03:32] <Goshawk_> ok
[03:32] <siretart> Goshawk: if you really want to build them yourself, you could try to emulate a ppc with qemu or stuff
[03:32] <siretart> but I'd really rather avoid crosscompiling
[03:34] <Goshawk> yes, i did it for x86, it was too huge and slow...
[03:46] <zakame> wb JohnnyMast :) happy new year :)
[03:47] <JohnnyMast> now already?
[03:47] <zakame> JohnnyMast: well, just a little more than a day before ;)
[03:47] <JohnnyMast> :p
[03:47] <zakame> anyway, how are your merges going? :)
[03:47] <JohnnyMast> yeah :D ,thanks same for you
[03:48] <JohnnyMast> im in the UK atm with me girl soim not working on any
[03:48] <zakame> I see you still have a few going ;)
[03:48] <zakame> w00t
[03:48] <Yagisan> re
[03:48] <JohnnyMast> they are already fixed zakame
[03:48] <JohnnyMast> others uploaded a merge for me and sayed theywould fix it
[03:49] <JohnnyMast> atm i only have 1 open
[03:51] <zakame> JohnnyMast: kiki seems open, have you checked this?
[03:52] <JohnnyMast> that was one that was fixed by one other
[03:53] <JohnnyMast> i only have trimity open i think
[03:53] <JohnnyMast> yes it is
[03:53] <zakame> JohnnyMast: snake4 is still open
[03:54] <JohnnyMast> and fixed
[03:54] <zakame> and python-libgmail too
[03:54] <JohnnyMast> ow wait zakame ... all merges on my name are done execpt python-libgmail
[03:57] <zakame> JohnnyMast: er I don't think so :( snake4 definitely is untouched, it's still ivok's last merge from breezy in dapper
[03:58] <JohnnyMast> hmm
[03:58] <JohnnyMast> ile look in to it when im back the 7th
[03:59] <zakame> JohnnyMast: hula is open too as well
[03:59] <zakame> JohnnyMast: rock on then, just pinging you about those ;)
[04:00] <zakame> wt seems the MOTU list is grabbing addys for spam, I'm seeing dupe spam :(
[04:00] <zakame> even motu-reviewers too :(
[04:31] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, I've just uploaded the new package (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1336)
[04:47] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: there's no icon in the menu
[04:47] <Gloubiboulga> :/
[04:47] <Riddell> you need to cp /usr/share/pixmaps/texmaker*.png into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/*/apps/
[04:47] <Gloubiboulga> Ok, I do it now
[04:48] <Riddell> groovy
[05:03] <zakame> gn8
[05:14] <Yagisan> when is the cutoff date for new universe packages ?
[05:19] <siretart> Yagisan: with upstream version freezy, mid january
[05:29] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[05:29] <psusi> morning
[05:29] <Kyral> I have a rather...interesting question
[05:30] <Mez> sup Kyral
[05:31] <Kyral> Are there facilities in Debian/Ubuntu for building RPMs/Slackpacks/eBuilds
[05:31] <Mez> Kyral - alien will work with rpms
[05:32] <Mez> not too sure bout slackpacks/ebuilds
[05:32] <Kyral> I mean not Alien
[05:32] <Mez> but i'm sure you can make them somehow :D
[05:32] <Kyral> I mean building them the right way
[05:32] <Mez> ah - you can probably get the tools and build them manually
[05:32] <Mez> but i dont know if theres anything available generally
[05:32] <Kyral> yah...
[05:32] <Kyral> okay thats what I thought
[05:32] <Mez> butn then i dont know what tools are used
[05:32] <Mez> not built any of those
[05:33] <Kyral> I'm adapting Ubuntu to our Linux Lab build
[05:33] <Kyral> and I figured if I included the Debian development tools, I should somehow provide for those
[05:34] <Mez> I'm sure you can get the dev tools for those
[05:34] <Mez> whether they'll work
[05:34] <Mez> why not just provide chroots to those OS's
[05:36] <Kyral> Adapt PBuilder?
[05:37] <Mez> no
[05:37] <Mez> just chroot :d
[05:38] <Kyral> well, also PBuilder so it would provide the same functionality to those formats
[05:39] <hub> Kyral: the thing is that distribution differ enought to not be compatible when it comes to package formats
[05:39] <Yagisan> Kyral: IIRC we do have rpm, but why do you need to build rpms etc ? Easier to do it in a chroot, and you'll match the right install libs too
[05:40] <Kyral> Yagisan: like I said this is for a Linux Lab. Not everyone there uses Ubuntu/Debian. So I thought that if I included the Debian tools, I should at least provide the tools for other formats
[05:40] <Kyral> besides, you gotta admit, if I pulled it off, it would be awesome
[05:49] <Kyral> well that wasnt supposed to happen
[06:12] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, the package is uploaded: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1337
[06:19] <siretart> Mez: around?
[06:19] <Mez> siretart: yeah
[06:19] <Mez> sup ?
[06:20] <siretart> Mez: I think that amarok is ready for backport, I did it here on my laptop and it runs fine
[06:20] <siretart> Mez: I uploaded a new amarok earlier today which should build in breezy fine
[06:21] <Mez> siretart: I'll have a look at it in a mo - is it on the REVU server anywhere?
[06:22] <siretart> Mez: the backported version is on my laptop, the new amarok is in dapper
[06:23] <Mez> ah ok :D
[06:23] <Mez> fair enough
[06:24] <Kyral> gak...
[06:24] <Mez> 1.3.7-0ubuntu4 ?
[06:24] <Kyral> FreeNX is going unstable
[06:25] <siretart> yeah
[06:26] <Mez> cool
[06:26] <Mez> checking now
[06:26] <Mez> theres nothing that's going to break is there?
[06:26] <siretart> I didn't check that much
[06:27] <siretart> I'm having a pretty mixed breezy/dapper system here
[06:27] <Mez> no I mean like - API/ABI transisions :D
[06:27] <siretart> I just uploaded a new version that doesn't ftbfs in breezy
[06:28] <Mez> lol
[06:28] <Kyral> I think my connection is fubaring
[06:28] <Mez> I dont think it'll ftbfs
[06:28] <Mez> but will it install on breezy?
[06:29] <Mez> hmm
[06:29] <Mez> anyone here use breezy and want to try the .deb?
[06:30] <Mez> brb
[06:30] <Mez> reboot
[06:36] <Riddell> Kyral: where?
[06:36] <Kyral> Riddell: huh?
[06:39] <Riddell> Kyral: freenx
[06:40] <Kyral> What about it?
[06:41] <Riddell> Kyral: you said "FreeNX is going unstable", what does that mean?
[06:41] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: looks good
[06:41] <Kyral> I meant my connection to it at that time :P
[06:42] <Kyral> but according to Seveas the latest version IS unstable
[06:42] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: that's two advocates now, want me to upload?
[06:42] <Riddell> Kyral: ah, fooey, not that it's going into debian unstable
[06:42] <Kyral> lol
[06:43] <Riddell> you got my hopes up there
[06:43] <Kyral> The one in the Wiki works fine
[06:46] <Riddell> 17:42 < Riddell> Gloubiboulga: that's two advocates now, want me to upload?
[06:46] <Kyral> someone vote on EasyChem </not so subtle hint> ;P
[06:46] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, sure :)
[06:47] <Gloubiboulga> my first uploaded package :D
[06:48] <Kyral> I thought the REVU day was supposed to clear out REVU lol
[06:50] <Riddell> revu is never cleared out
[06:50] <Kyral> meh
[06:51] <Kyral> normally I wouldn't be complainging, but its been more than a month since I made the effort to fix all the bugs that ajmitch and slomo noted :P
[06:52] <siretart> Kyral: which package?
[06:52] <Kyral> EasyChem
[06:52] <Riddell> Kyral: I've already noticed two more I'm afraid
[06:52] <Kyral> eh?
[06:52] <Kyral> bug?
[06:53] <Mez> Riddell:seeing as youre in here - is it ok wth you if i add a small patch to yakuake ? to get rid of the "notification" window i it's a restoredsession ?
[06:53] <Kyral> Don't say a thing about the patch system
[06:54] <Riddell> Kyral: two minor issues http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1257
[06:55] <Riddell> Mez: be my guest
[06:55] <Kyral> this is gonna be a trick uploading it
[06:55] <Riddell> Mez: any idea why whn I start yakuake it says "Uh oh.. can't write data.."
[06:55] <Riddell> Kyral: why?
[06:55] <Mez> Riddell : cheers :D I've sent to upstream but it's the one  thing i hate most about
[06:55] <Kyral> this desktop doesn't have internet access
[06:56] <Kyral> well, rather
[06:56] <Kyral> DNS doesn't work
[06:56] <Kyral> I'm talking to you via my Laptop with FreeNX :D
[06:56] <siretart> a french TODO.. interesting
[06:56] <Mez> Riddell, at a guess - it's trying to write it's config but you have strange chmod permissions
[06:57] <Kyral> so unless I can put the IP for REVU unto my dput.conf...
[06:57] <Riddell> Kyral: well I can change it, am compiling now, if I don't find any more problems I'll fix and upload
[06:57] <Kyral> NMU?
[06:57] <Riddell> ubuntu doesn't do NMU, since we don't have MU
[06:58] <Kyral> lol
[06:58] <Kyral> if I can I'd like this to be my first package in universe ;P
[06:58] <Mez> Kyral<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:58] <Mez> grr
[06:58] <Mez> Kyral Name:   tiber.tauware.de
[06:58] <Mez> Address: <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:58] <Kyral> lol
[06:59] <Mez> dman klipper :D
[06:59] <Kyral> yah DNS doesn't resolve (for some reason) on my wireless
[07:00] <Kyral> So I'd put the IP in the fqdn field?
[07:00] <Mez> Ridell: surely in yakuake the autoconf stuff should be done before packaging ?
[07:01] <Riddell> Mez: that's the usual way, but it doesn't have to be that way
[07:01] <Mez> Riddell: mind if I change it ?
[07:01] <Riddell> Kyral: easychem seems good, want me to upload?
[07:01] <Kyral> yah if you would :D
[07:02] <Kyral> my first package to Universe
[07:02] <Riddell> Mez: actually isn't there a debian yakuake package now?  we should merge with that
[07:02] <Riddell> Kyral: you do reaslise this is me reviewing a gtk package.  it means when you're a MOTU you have to promise to revu all the KDE packages
[07:02] <Mez> Riddell: will do :D
[07:02] <Kyral> lol
[07:02] <Kyral> Yah
[07:03] <Kyral> I don't care about the whole fight between GTK/Qt
[07:03] <Kyral> Personally I use Fluxbox :D
[07:04] <Mez> Riddell: the md5sums on the orig.tar.gz dont match
[07:04] <Mez> yay
[07:04] <Kyral> and we have to see about me becoming MOTU first ;P
[07:06] <Riddell> Kyral: uploaded, see comments http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1257
[07:07] <Riddell> Kyral: it needs to pass through NEW, keep an eye on dapper-changes for it appearing in the next few days
[07:07] <Riddell> Kyral: then make sure it builds properly, then apt-get it and make sure it all still works
[07:07] <Seveas> Riddell, hell will have to freeze over before NX will move into debian
[07:07] <Kyral> Riddell: I have a unique situation lol
[07:08] <Kyral> Evoluition is down somewhat
[07:08] <Seveas> the core is simply a modified xfree86 3.x server, which means duplicate code, duplicate bugs...
[07:08] <Kyral> so my filters are shot :P
[07:08] <Riddell> Kyral: use the archives I guess
[07:08] <Kyral> I'm AFRAID to open my GMail Account right now :P
[07:08] <Kyral> Considering all the MLs that go there
[07:08] <Riddell> Kyral: might be good to tell upstream and to file a wnpp at debian, not sure what the best practice is there
[07:09] <Kyral> wnpp?
[07:09] <tseng> work needed / please package
[07:09] <Riddell> debian's itend to package module on bugs.debian.org
[07:09] <Riddell> intend
[07:09] <Kyral> ah
[07:09] <Kyral> so I can't just hand it to Debian...
[07:09] <Kyral> I have to be more formal ;P
[07:09] <Riddell> saying "have package in ubuntu, please someone review and upload to debian"
[07:10] <Riddell> well that is how you hand it to debian, unless you know a friendly debian developer who'll do it for you
[07:10] <Kyral> It builds in Breezy BTW
[07:10] <Kyral> It was a joke ;P
[07:11] <Kyral> I should become more involved with Debian at somepoint
[07:11] <ajmitch> so should I
[07:11] <Kyral> roflmao
[07:11] <Riddell> Treenaks: coming to lugradio live?
[07:12] <Treenaks> Riddell: yeah
[07:12] <Kyral> oh EasyChem builds in Breezy. I got bored one day and ran it through my pbuilder
[07:12] <Kyral> ^Breezy
[07:12] <ajmitch> Kyral: I'd expect it would
[07:13] <Treenaks> Riddell: I'm going to describe the crack that's planned for dapper+1 (or, that's the plan ;))
[07:13] <Riddell> lets throw out apt!
[07:14] <Treenaks> Riddell: let's throw out ALL C++!
[07:14] <Treenaks> ;)
[07:15] <Kyral> Throw out Apt....*shudder*
[07:15] <Riddell> a python only operating system!
[07:15] <Kyral> Isn't that Portage...?
[07:15] <Treenaks> Riddell: written in self-hosted python
[07:15] <Kyral> but yah Python owns
[07:16] <tseng> where did unrar-nonfree go?
[07:16] <Riddell> do I archive in revu stuff I've uploaded immediatly or after it's done NEW and compiled?
[07:17] <Mez> Riddell, yes
[07:17] <Kyral> actually better question...why is a BitTorrent Tracker starting at boot in a fresh install?
[07:17] <Treenaks> Riddell: they can have rubuntu
[07:17] <Riddell> Kyral: you've been 0wned?
[07:17] <Riddell> Mez: whit?
[07:18] <tseng> bt starts for everyone in dapper
[07:18] <Kyral> Riddell: ...
[07:18] <Treenaks> uh..
[07:18] <Treenaks> WHY
[07:18] <tseng> because its a bug
[07:18] <Kyral> yah, I jumped to Dapper then the tracker was loading
[07:18] <tseng> bt is in the desktop seed
[07:18] <Kyral> Freaked me out
[07:18] <tseng> and no one disabled the initscript by default yet
[07:18] <Mez> do I archive in revu stuff I've uploaded immediatly or after it's done NEW and compiled?
[07:19] <tseng> actually its off
[07:19] <tseng> just the initscript is noisy
[07:19] <Kyral> wait...so its off, but still echos?
[07:19] <tseng> /etc/default/bittorrent
[07:19] <tseng> its off
[07:20] <tseng> (thats exactly what i just said)
[07:20] <Kyral> okay
[07:34] <Mez> Riddell, uploading yakuake 2.73-1ubunt1
[07:34] <Mez> u1 *
[07:34] <Mez> brb
[07:52] <bddebian> Heya your MOTUnesses..
[07:52] <Kyral> holy its bddebian
[07:52] <bddebian> Heh :-)
[07:53] <Riddell> Mez: uploaded to revu or dapper?
[07:53] <Mez> dapper
[07:53] <Mez> lol
[07:53] <Mez> though I think I may have cocked it slightly
[07:54] <Mez> yes i did
[07:54] <Mez> though no katie output
[07:54] <Riddell> no dapper-changes
[07:55] <Mez> yeah :D It should go through now :D
[07:55] <Mez> lol
[07:55] <Riddell> tsk
[07:56] <ajmitch> oh man, bddebian is here?
[07:56] <bddebian> Heh, yeah so watch out
[07:57] <Kyral> lol
[07:57] <Mez> watch out bddebian's about
[08:00] <Mez> Riddell, accepted
[08:00] <Mez> though - er ...
[08:00] <Mez> no katie output
[08:01] <Mez> which one did you choose bddebian ?
[08:02] <bddebian> Mez: ?
[08:02] <Mez> you was picking a nose
[08:02] <Mez> I assumed you were liek - at a plastic surgeons
[08:03] <Kyral> hmm
[08:03] <bddebian> Mez: Oh, hehe
[08:05] <Kyral> hmm
[08:06] <Kyral> if I installed pdnsd...woiuld I be able to use my laptop as a DNS proxy for my Desktop..
[08:30] <LaserJock> hi all!
[08:35] <Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock
[08:36] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I see texmaker got reviewed
[08:39] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, yep, Riddell has just uploaded it :)
[08:41] <LaserJock> there will be a lot of TeX users happy about that
[08:42] <LaserJock> bbl
[08:46] <Mez> siretart: ping
[08:47] <siretart> Mez: pong
[08:48] <Mez> siretart: amarok is ok build wise - i've sent a test request to the mailing list as i've no way to test if it works atm
[08:48] <Mez> :D
[08:48] <Mez> once it's confirmed - i'll request it
[08:48] <Mez> but looking good so far
[08:49] <siretart> ok
[08:50] <Mez> siretart: also why is yakuake shpwing up in sistpoty's script
[08:50] <Mez> theres no MOM request for it
[08:51] <ajmitch> Mez: so you plan to be the MOTU/Utnubu person now? :)
[08:51] <Mez> ajmitch - i hope to work with the utnubu team in the future - yes
[08:51] <ajmitch>    yakuake |    2.7.3-1 |      unstable | source, i386, powerpc
[08:51] <ajmitch>    yakuake | 2.7.3-0ubuntu2 |        dapper | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[08:51] <siretart> Mez: nothing hinders you to talk to joachim ;)
[08:52] <Mez> ajmitch - yeah i know - i just synced but was looking to close the mom bug
[08:52] <siretart> some time ago, he was even in this channel
[08:52] <Mez> siretart, what was that referring to ?
[08:52] <Mez> ajmitch, good :D
[08:52] <ajmitch> except real life got in the way
[08:52] <siretart> Mez: working in/on utnubu
[08:52] <ajmitch> now I'm an unemployed bum, so it doesn't matter ;)
[08:52] <Mez> lol - ajmitch - i think utnubu is a great project - it just needs more... focus
[08:53] <siretart> it mainly need manpower
[08:53] <ajmitch> yep
[08:53] <ajmitch> people who can review the junk in ubuntu
[08:53] <ajmitch> since we still have plenty
[08:53] <ajmitch> (eg apt-get.org imports)
[08:53] <Mez> siretart/ajmitch :D totally agree :D hence why i plan to help
[08:53] <Mez> but - as I said
[08:53] <Mez> it's a long road
[08:53] <ajmitch> so help, don't just plan to help ;)
[08:54] <ajmitch> you don't need to be a DD to start
[08:54] <Mez> ajmitch: I know :D already got a package in waiting :D
[08:54] <Mez> lol - it's my package - but meh :D
[08:55] <Mez> taking it in baby steps so I can refine my packaging to be more ... debian-esque
[08:55] <ajmitch> I've got *lots* of free time now
[08:55] <Mez> talking of free time
[08:56] <Mez> I gotta go
[08:56] <Mez> work
[08:56] <ajmitch> bye
[08:56] <Mez> ajmitch, lemme know if you spot anything ba in that package
[08:57] <ajmitch> k
[08:59] <Mez> oh, and in response to \sh about me not being around - I've had problems at home - no net access - been homeless for a while - but I'm back now - so :P
[09:45] <siretart> hi womble
[09:45] <womble> Hi siretart
[09:45] <ajmitch> morning womble
[09:45] <ajmitch> you're up early :)
[09:45] <bddebian> Mez: Sorry to hear that
[09:45] <womble> Need to Get Things Done before it gets too damned hot
[09:46] <siretart> and also watching our lovely ubuntu-motu mailling list ;)
[09:46] <siretart> aah, you down unders.. here it is -8C ;)
[09:46] <bddebian> Doh..
[09:46] <ajmitch> siretart: thankfully -motu is a little easier to catch up on than -users
[09:46] <ajmitch> bddebian: no, you need to just do work
[09:46] <bddebian> Yeah, that too :-(
[09:47] <bddebian> I've been busy killing Germans for the last week or so.. ;-P
[09:47] <siretart> ajmitch: you are so right.. ;)
[09:48] <ajmitch> so do I
[09:48] <womble> My apologies for spamming<EMAIL_ADDRESS><grin>
[09:48] <ajmitch> I don't mind :)
[09:48] <ajmitch> I like having something to read
[09:48] <bddebian> So I should try to fit some MOTUness in between finishing Call of Duty 2 and starting Dungeon Siege II? :-)
[09:49] <ajmitch> bddebian: no
[09:49] <womble> bddebian: That's crazy talk
[09:49] <womble> Get back to gaming
[09:49] <ajmitch> bddebian: you should do MOTUness instead of finishing Call of Duty 2 and starting Dungeon Siege II
[09:49] <bddebian> ajmitch: Too late, I finished Call of Duty 2 last night :)
[09:50] <siretart> womble: your post are very very welcome :)
[09:50] <womble> I wondered if it was good form doubling the daily post rate.  <grin>
[09:50] <ajmitch> haha
[09:51] <ajmitch> womble: so are you going to join the ranks of those who are DDs & MOTUs?
[09:52] <womble> ajmitch: In some way, certainly.  I'm not sure if what I want to do requires a MOTU badge, though.
[09:52] <ajmitch> what are you wanting to do?
[09:52] <womble> Steal Ubuntu's good ideas for Debian, of course.
[09:52] <ajmitch> now that I see your post on the mailing list, I can connect a name to a blog ;)
[09:52] <Treenaks> non-profit spies?
[09:53] <ajmitch> womble: a worthy goal
[09:53] <womble> Merge as much Ubuntu work back into Debian, mostly.  Both package code and useful infrastructure (like REVU)
[09:53] <ajmitch> womble: makes our job a lot easier ;)
[09:53] <womble> ajmitch: Ayup.
[09:53] <womble> And I despise divergence
[09:53] <ajmitch> certainly
[09:53] <ajmitch> I try & keep my packages identical in debian & ubuntu
[09:54] <ajmitch> I'd like to see the REVU ideas getting a wider audience
[09:55] <ajmitch> currently we're reworking it, and it'll use launchpad for authentication, which isn't ideal for debian
[09:57] <womble> It would be handy if you could think about making the REVU codebase flexible enough to handle other uses, but worst case it'll just get butchered or rewritten for Debian
[09:57] <womble> I'm aching to do an OSS Rails project -- it's all in-house stuff at work
[09:58] <ajmitch> sadly for you it's done with python :)
[09:58] <ajmitch> we'll try & make it as flexible as needed
  I hack plenty of python, too.
[09:59] <ajmitch> I still do enough debian work to want improvements there
[10:01] <womble> I figure any work I do to improve Ubuntu that isn't Ubuntu-specific is wasted effort -- I'd much rather apply it to it's true source (Debian, for the most part, as I don't have commit access to many upstreams) and then everybody benefits.  That's the main reason I haven't worked on Ubuntu stuff more heavily (that, and I suffer from lackoftimeitis)
[10:02] <ajmitch> while I like working on debian, I still see benefits in doing the work in ubuntu to get things in shape for a 6 month release cycle
[10:19] <ajmitch> 20MB orig.tar.gz takes awhile
[10:26] <siretart> wow. whats that?
[10:28] <ajmitch> phpgroupware
[10:28] <ajmitch> and debian needs binary uploads as well :)
[10:29] <siretart> ah, I see
[10:30] <ajmitch> I need to find a host with some decent bandwidth to upload from
[10:30] <ajmitch> since I'm not sure how long the timeout is
[10:30] <siretart> ajmitch: tiber? ;)
[10:36] <ajmitch> perhaps
[10:37] <ajmitch> depends if I can use a sid chroot there to build my package
[10:37] <ajmitch> where 'building' is mainly copying files around, being php
[10:38] <Gloubiboulga> good night
[10:40] <dereks_> how can i tell if a package was compiled with support for a certain component?
[10:41] <womble> dereks_: Check depends for libraries, etc for the component; check debian/rules in the source package for configure --with-* options
[10:42] <womble> Check build logs for the package to see if there's mention of enabling/disabling support; check changelog for historical mentions of switching on/off support
[10:42] <dereks_> womble: ok thanks
[10:42] <womble> nm or strings over the binaries... <grin>
[10:50] <siretart> ajmitch: where, there is a sid pbuilder
[10:50] <Kyral> Pbuilder hmm?
[10:52] <ajmitch> siretart: ok, might be useful then
[10:52] <ajmitch> pbuilder & debrsign might be enough for me :)
[10:52] <Kyral> You cannot create the Sid PBuilder directly
[10:52] <ajmitch> Kyral: excuse me?
[10:53] <Kyral> You cannot make a Sid PBuilder like you make a Sarge or Breezy Builder, if I recall correctly
[10:53] <ajmitch> you could the times that I've tried
[10:53] <Kyral> hmm
[10:53] <ajmitch> since that's the main purpose of it
[10:53] <siretart> Kyral: we have several wrappers for different tarbals on tiber
[10:53] <Kyral> like I said it was been a while
[10:54] <ajmitch> must have been
[10:54] <Kyral> maybe it was Etch that I had to upgrade
[10:54] <Kyral> sorry
[10:54] <siretart> ajmitch: but don't forget to call 'pbuilder-sid update' ;)
[10:54] <ajmitch> siretart: oh I know ;)
[10:55] <ajmitch> where oh where has my metacity configuration dialog gone to?
[10:55] <ajmitch> it's all very well telling people to use gconf-editor, but it's rather annoying
[10:55] <Kyral> gconf reminds me of the Windows Registry
[11:05] <siretart> yes, but I don't have a problem when it is implemented like gconf
[11:06] <psusi> why is that?
[11:08] <psusi> the registry has the advantage that changes are transaction logged, and you can set granular ACLs... not to mention it's significantly better in terms of disk space and access speed
[11:09] <siretart> the best registry i've seen so far is /sys.
[11:14] <psusi> that's not a registry at all... that's kernel runtime status


[00:17] <SpamapS> tartar: start on starting will block *every* starting event... BUT, only while it transitions from stop/waiting to start/running
[00:17] <SpamapS> tartar: so, the second starting event will not block, because the goal will now be 'start'
[00:35] <tartar> hmm
[01:25] <tartar> It would be nice if "start SERVICE" could give the status of the already starting or started job.
[01:26] <tartar> It seems "start SERVICE" will say "already running" regardless of the status such as start/starting or start/running.
[01:27] <tartar> Using "status SERVICE" before "start SERVICE" goes against possibility of an atomic check-vs-start.
[01:29] <tartar> Ah, I should use the error code of "start SERVICE" and tell the difference between the starting and the running states by looking at "status SERVICE" on receiving a non-zero code.
[01:48] <tartar>
[01:48] <SpamapS> tartar: I'd also question the use case. If you want it started, start just asserts that the goal will at least have been set to start once.
[01:49] <SpamapS> tartar: so its more of an assertion "make sure its at least in a state trying to start"
[01:53] <tartar> Thanks.
[01:53] <tartar>
[01:53] <tartar> On an unrelated note, I love the rare occasions when pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete brings up shell instead of rebooting a locked startup.
[01:54] <tartar> I am not sure if this came as under-developed intent or by chance.
[01:55] <tartar> Err. brings up the login prompt
[03:15] <tartar> I wonder where can I read... It appears that "task" will return its starting hooks on completion of its script.  Does pre-start of a service block the service's "start on" hook in the same way?
[03:17] <tartar> SpamapS: your comment about blocking starting events seems to imply yes.
[03:22] <tartar> Yay, "6.32 task" confirms this.  "Without the 'task' keyword, the events that cause the job to start will be unblocked as soon as the job is started. This means the job has emitted a starting(7) event, run its pre-start, begun its script/exec, and post-start, and emitted its started(7) event."
[10:54] <afournier> do a job that does an "start on starting job2" will run even if job2 fails to start ?
[10:55] <afournier> i'd say yes
[10:56] <afournier> but the real question would then be, does job2 will run even if the job fails
[16:52] <SpamapS> afournier: a very easy thing to test. I believe the answer is yes
[16:53] <afournier> yes


[00:11] <Herne> Hi... I just upgraded from 10.04 LTS with realtime kernel to UbuntuStudio 12.04 LTS... spent the afternoon seh... tting up LADItray and gladish... it sort of works now...
[20:35] <Submarine> howdie
[20:36] <Submarine> is there any way, in Rosegarden, to obtain something similar to Ardour "busses"?
[20:36] <Submarine> that is, inputs that get directly into the mixer
[20:36] <Submarine> as opposed to being recorded and played
[21:41] <FA101_Axiom49> Hi There ..
[21:42] <FA101_Axiom49> Erff install Completed.. Rebooting.. :-/


[00:58] <OvenWerks> zequence: looking at http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Applications it appears Carla is not one of the Cadence tools.
[01:06] <OvenWerks> zequence: I think I would argue for it being packaged separately anyway, because it can, because it does not rely on any of the rest of Cadance and because it is useful on it's own.
[01:14] <OvenWerks> I think Catia could be packaged on it's own too. I don't know if it is more stable than patchage or not. I like the idea of patchage, but I have personally had trouble with it's stability. It has crashed on me sometimes.
[01:14] <OvenWerks> zequence: is there a debian tool for packaging?
[01:15] <OvenWerks> How would I discover the depends for building for example?
[01:19] <OvenWerks> zequence: with regard to Cadence: In most ways it seems to be much like what we envision a -controls app to be. I think something like that should be either/or. That is we package and use Cadence or we work on -controls. Having both would be confusing and potentially could break things if both were used to make similar tweaks.
[07:49] <zequence> OvenWerks: There are a bunch of helper scripts for packaging, but other than that, I'm not exactly an expert. Usually, the source will tell you what it needs dependency wise.
[07:50] <zequence> Needs a bit figuring out, since package names in Debian may not be the same as the original source name
[07:50] <zequence> libraries usually begin with "lib"
[07:50] <zequence> devscripts is a bunch of helper scripts
[07:52] <zequence> In order to test a build you can use pbuilder
[07:53] <zequence> That should confirm whether or not dependencies are correct
[07:54] <zequence> An alternative to pbuilder is cowbuilder
[07:57] <zequence> debian/rules is a special make file, and it is possible to add a bunch of special configs there for the build.
[07:57] <zequence> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dreq.en.html#rules
[08:04] <zequence> I think Ross had good advice on packaging, and that was to do it for Debian and get help from Debian Mentors. They have a mail list there.
[08:04] <zequence> http://mentors.debian.net/
[08:08] <zequence> I'm kind of stuck at writing my apt search tool, which I could have already finished for our purposes, but I was trying to figure out how to make it more generic.
[08:09] <zequence> It searches from all supported Debian and Ubuntu repositories, by first downloading the content files (files, packages and source) from all repos
[08:10] <zequence> Takes a while, just to download the files, and seemingly, Ubuntu does not have the same exact setup as Debian, though the difference is small.
[09:00] <DalekSec> Or sbuild.  See also: dh-make
[12:43] <OvenWerks> zequence: I have used pbuilder before, I'll try that, put in what deps I think try and add from there.
[23:19] <Len1510> Went to my W partition... and am now doing another upgrade... -controls is one of the upgrading things.
[23:20] <Len1510> But it will be at least an hour I think.
[23:30] <Len1510> Ack! someone has added the category "System" to our Documentation desktop files. (I hope it wasn't me  ;)
[23:32] <Len1510> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apas02.html shows Documentation as not being a sub category. I think I will go back and remove the System.
[23:34] <Len1510> I will make a bug first
[23:50] <Len1510> Bug #1491661
[23:52] <Len1510> I am guessing linian would make a fuss over using Documentation with no main category. I would suggest Education is better than system, but in either case the *.menu file may need to be fixed.
[23:53] <Len1510> s/linian/lintian


[00:00] <Unit193> Err, right!    Interesting. :>
[09:48] <jphilips> sean was on the show for the 19.10 release i believe
[09:48] <jphilips> yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcb2lLVBKBw
[09:50] <Unit193> Because he's the face of Xubuntu, of course!
[09:51] <bluesabre> I did get ochosi to do the 19.10 destination linux episode :)
[09:52] <Unit193> ...I haven't shaved since March, I'm surely not the face of anywhere right now. >_>
[09:58] <jphilips> you dont need to show your face :D
[11:02] <bluesabre> !team | Reminder, community meeting tonight at 21:00 UTC, hope to see you there!
[11:02] <bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-May/011971.html
[11:06] <bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for updating the factoid :)
[11:07] <Unit193> Sure thing.
[12:06] <jphilips> for those interested in helping with documentation, we are working on the 'What is Xubuntu?' page - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jqimfff79oQH63xNwVwIaO0YFUkvCBzZtMC4up5ssDY/edit#
[12:08] <jphilips> sorry wrong doc. here it is https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kkq51aJLT-BdCogUS4INhrR4e_IRgLT7YlUAWL32m4g/edit#
[21:00] <jphilips> bluesabre: meeting time
[21:00] <pleia2> o/
[21:00] <jphilips> hi pleia2. hope you are feeling better
[21:00] <pleia2> thank you :) getting there
[21:01] <pleia2> oh! I wanted to tell you that the release video was wonderful, thanks again for making that :)
[21:01] <bluesabre> I'm here!
[21:01] <bluesabre> :D
[21:02] <bluesabre> One sec to get my bearings.
[21:02] <bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[21:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 19 21:02:32 2020 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[21:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[21:02] <bluesabre> !team | Meeting time!
[21:02] <pleia2> o/
[21:02] <bluesabre> #chair pleia2
[21:02] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre pleia2
[21:03] <bluesabre> :)
[21:03] <bluesabre> Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[21:04] <bluesabre> We'll wait a short few for everybody to show up. (and for me to close a bunch of tabs)
[21:05] <jphilips> pleia2: glad to hear you're getting there and that you enjoyed the release video. it got featured on OMG Ubuntu :D
[21:05] <pleia2> yes, I saw!
[21:07] <jphilips> stumbled on your episode on linux spotlight, which i hope to watch soon
[21:08] <bluesabre> Noticed the meeting minutes weren't added from the last meeting, so adding those right quick
[21:08] <pleia2> I wish I had done it from my home office in california, I was sitting in my kitchen in pennsylvania and the backdrop is boring :)
[21:09] <pleia2> jphilips: just now finally got to reviewing the video text for what is Xubuntu
[21:10] <jphilips> pleia2: thanks
[21:10] <bluesabre> Last meeting minutes added, so let's go ahead and start the meeting :)
[21:10] <pleia2> thanks, bluesabre!
[21:10] <bluesabre> #topic Open action items
[21:11] <bluesabre> #info bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up email/vote to the list
[21:11] <bluesabre> That was in regard to the desktop changes. Now that 20.10 has started, I say lets get that vote out this week (along with the other votes we're going to have)
[21:12] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML
[21:12] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML
[21:12] <bluesabre> #topic Updates and announcements
[21:13] <jphilips> curious how to have people vote on every item suggested in the google doc?
[21:13] <bluesabre> #info akxwi-dave and slickymaster have been deactivated from the team since they've been inactive for a while. Thanks for all the support you've given us over the years!
[21:14] <bluesabre> jphilips: we'll need to consolidate some of those suggestions. I think we discussed how we were going to combine them in this meeting: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-03-19-21.00.moin.txt
[21:15] <bluesabre> #info jphilips put together a nice release video for 20.04, check it out if you haven't seen it (link below)
[21:15] <bluesabre> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_uVSNnIGY
[21:16] <pleia2> it's so good!
[21:16] <bluesabre> Any other updates or announcements?
[21:16] <jphilips> do we want to mention about the work going on with the documentation?
[21:17] <bluesabre> Definitely
[21:17] <jphilips> okay
[21:17] <bluesabre> Maybe get some more contributors in the process :)
[21:18] <jphilips> every week we are going through a single page of the documentation in google docs
[21:18] <jphilips> announcing the editing of the google doc on social media and in the ML
[21:18] <jphilips> we had a new contributor today for this week's 'What is Xubuntu?' page
[21:19] <bluesabre> Oh nice
[21:19] <pleia2> great :)
[21:19] <jphilips> we have weekly meetings on Saturday at 3pm UTC for the finalization of the edits make on the google doc worked on each week
[21:19] <jphilips> the weekly meeting happens on Zoom
[21:20] <jphilips> its in audio
[21:21] <jphilips> i think that's it for documentation
[21:22] <bluesabre> Cool, thanks :)
[21:22] <bluesabre> pleia2: anything else to add for U&A?
[21:22] <pleia2> I don't think so
[21:22] <bluesabre> Alrighty
[21:23] <bluesabre> On to the next section :)
[21:23] <bluesabre> #topic Discussion
[21:23] <bluesabre> #subtopic GitHub Proposal
[21:23] <bluesabre> I've been working on this one for a bit.
[21:23] <bluesabre> Here's the proposal: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/proposals/github
[21:24] <bluesabre> A demo Xubuntu-Team organization so we can see it in practice: https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team
[21:24] <pleia2> does this cause any problems with iso building or any of the stuff Canonical does for us? (didn't see it in the Cons)
[21:25] <bluesabre> It shouldn't affect anything of that nature.
[21:25] <bluesabre> I also spoke with Wimpress of Ubuntu Mate (and Desktop) and he says everything works well for them there.
[21:26] <pleia2> philosophically I'm sad to see us move from an open source platform for development and translations to proprietary ones (both github and transifex) but I do understand the practical considerations
[21:26] <pleia2> it's probably worth moving just so it's easier on new developers we always need
[21:26] <bluesabre> The one codebase we'd keep hosted on Launchpad is the seed, since AAs contribute directly to it.
[21:26] <pleia2> gotcha
[21:27] <Unit193> I'd imagine the seed has to remain on launchpad though.  I think turning off 'issues' on Github and leaving those on Launchpad (package bugs) makes sense though, since it's linked and more findable.
[21:27] <bluesabre> Yeah, and that's definitely an option.
[21:27] <pleia2> Unit193: good point re: bugs
[21:28] <Unit193> Also: `ubuntu-bug` will work. :P
[21:28] <bluesabre> :)
[21:28] <pleia2> yeah, and all the related testing documentation
[21:29] <ochosi> hi all
[21:29] <ochosi> weird, i didn't see the ping for the meeting
[21:29] <ochosi> sry to be late
[21:30] <bluesabre> hey ochosi, glad you could make it
[21:31] <bluesabre> Disabled issues and added a note on the readme @ https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team/xubuntu-default-settings/blob/master/README.md for that example
[21:31] <jphilips> would moving to gitlab rather than github make it more acceptable to contributors who oppose github?
[21:31] <bluesabre> Easier to see at https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team/xubuntu-default-settings
[21:31] <Unit193> bluesabre: So if it's code and translations only, yeah that makes sense I guess.  I'm not exactly keen on it either, but it is what it is.
[21:33] <bluesabre> jphilips: I think Gitlab keeps the benefit of the more advanced platform, but loses out on the wider userbase. It also creates an issue of where and how to host.
[21:33] <bluesabre> Whereas Ubuntu, derivatives, and other projects are already on GitHub.
[21:33] <Unit193> I think he means gitlab.com.
[21:34] <jphilips> i remember ubuntu mate used to host on gitlab.com and then moved to github.com
[21:34] <Unit193> bluesabre: gitlab.xfce.org! :>
[21:34] <ochosi> haha
[21:34] <ochosi> well we're still working on gitlab.xfce ;)
[21:34] <ochosi> i would also go for github
[21:34] <ochosi> because of the rest of *buntu also being there
[21:35] <jphilips> oh okay. i prefer it as well.
[21:35] <bluesabre> :)
[21:36] <ochosi> how does ubuntu handle LP bugs vs. GH issues?
[21:36] <ochosi> plus do we still run package builds through LP?
[21:36] <bluesabre> We'd keep package builds running with mirrored LP repos
[21:37] <bluesabre> As for the bugs, we're considering now: disable GH issues, and point visitors to report issues for the packages on Ubuntu. Not sure if that interferes with merge requests.
[21:38] <bluesabre> Otherwise, LP has upstream bug linking options, like we currently do for Xfce bugs
[21:38] <ochosi> depends on whether you want to be able to automatically close issues with MRs
[21:39] <bluesabre> Even now, our bugs are only closed by package uploads (or somebody reviewing them later after upload)
[21:39] <Unit193> Which to me, makes more sense.
[21:40] <ochosi> sure
[21:40] <ochosi> what i meant: i wouldnt expect many troubles with MRs and issues
[21:40] <Unit193> I think LP has support for watching for fix committed, but think that only works with bzr. :P
[21:40] <ochosi> but the whole mix may end up being a little confusing
[21:40] <ochosi> because the code will be mirrored on LP
[21:40] <ochosi> but then again, i don#t remember people flocking into LP to contribute...
[21:41] <ochosi> (in the last years at least, in the early years yes)
[21:41] <pleia2> mirroring of git repos is pretty common practice across open source these days
[21:41] <bluesabre> Yeah, I get lots of pastes and random emails with patches.
[21:41] <pleia2> usually it's the other way around (so it's discoverable on github, but you contribute elsewhere), but it's still a thing
[21:43] <jphilips> ubuntu mate has a page showing where to file bugs and patches for different parts of the development - https://ubuntu-mate.org/get-involved/development/
[21:44] <pleia2> if I'm honest, launchpad is already so confusing to navigate, we don't lose much by having people do different things in different places :\
[21:44] <bluesabre> jphilips: that's a pretty cool resource
[21:45] <jphilips> yep there new website is quite nicely organized
[21:45] <jphilips> their*
[21:46] <bluesabre> With all the xubuntu things being fairly easy to find from the GH homepage, it might actually make things easier https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team :D
[21:46] <pleia2> indeed :)
[21:46] <ochosi> yup
[21:46] <bluesabre> So yeah, any other concerns or talking points? Should we open up team voting here and resume it in the ML, or just do all in the ML?
[21:47] <bluesabre> Or should we just roll with it?
[21:48] <Unit193> Moving all code hosting seems like something we might want to vote on. :>
[21:48] <bluesabre> Figured as much :D
[21:49] <bluesabre> #vote Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?
[21:49] <meetingology> Please vote on: Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?
[21:49] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[21:49] <bluesabre> #chair ochosi
[21:49] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi pleia2
[21:49] <bluesabre> #chair Unit193
[21:49] <meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia2
[21:50] <bluesabre> #voters Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia2
[21:50] <meetingology> Current voters: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia2
[21:50] <bluesabre> #voters knome krytarik
[21:50] <meetingology> Current voters: Unit193 bluesabre knome krytarik ochosi pleia2
[21:50] <bluesabre> +1
[21:50] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[21:51] <pleia2> +1
[21:51] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[21:51] <Unit193> +1
[21:51] <meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
[21:52] <bluesabre> ochosi knome krytarik?
[21:53] <ochosi> +1
[21:53] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[21:53] <bluesabre> Neat, 4/6
[21:54] <bluesabre> #endvote
[21:54] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?
[21:54] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[21:54] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:54] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex
[21:54] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex
[21:55] <bluesabre> Thanks for voting!
[21:55] <bluesabre> #subtopic Telegram Groups and IRC Bridge
[21:55] <Unit193> Now, does everyone have an account?  I know krytarik doesn't.
[21:55] <bluesabre> That's fun
[21:55] <jphilips> i have an account
[21:56] <bluesabre> RE: Github, we'll still be able to accept MRs from remote repos
[21:56] <bluesabre> #link https://wiki.xubuntu.org/proposals/telegram-bridge
[21:56] <bluesabre> jphilips: want to lead on this?
[21:57] <jphilips> not sure how to :D
[21:57] <jphilips> can answer any questions people have after they've read the proposal
[21:58] <bluesabre> There's a in-testing Telegram bridge at https://t.me/XubuntuSupport and #xubuntu-support (I think that's right)
[21:58] <jphilips> but the basic idea is to create telegram groups for xubuntu and xubuntu-devel and bridge them to the irc channels to make it easier for people to get involved and get help
[21:59] <jphilips> yes we've setup a group for support and bridged it with #xubuntu-support while we await approval
[21:59] <Unit193> While I'm fully against the idea, I understand the reasoning, but I don't see the point in linking the support medium.
[21:59] <jphilips> aaditya is the one who has setup the bridge
[21:59] <Unit193> Reasining for development*
[22:00] <ochosi> i don't have a big opinion on this
[22:00] <ochosi> i'm not active in the support channel for a while already, not enough time
[22:00] <ochosi> and for development i read the backlog when i have time
[22:00] <ochosi> on my phone i also read stuff when i *don't* have time
[22:00] <Unit193> I #kubuntu, I see spam all the time come across, and general frustration among some of the common folks that help out.
[22:02] <bluesabre> Is it general spam, or is it just less-than-ideal visitors?
[22:02] <ochosi> can't say that surprises me
[22:03] <bluesabre> I'm still pretty new to Telegram, but I have seen more open source projects seeming to embrace it recently.
[22:03] <pleia2> who has access to bringing the bridge back up if it goes down?
[22:04] <Unit193> bluesabre: Spam, it's getting to the point that when you see a female name join, you wonder if it's another drive-by. :/
[22:04] <bluesabre> Ouch.
[22:04] <pleia2> Unit193: yikes :(
[22:04] <jphilips> pleia2: once its on xubuntu infra, bluesabre would have it
[22:04] <bluesabre> Once I have access to the infra
[22:04] <pleia2> on dev.xubuntu.org or...?
[22:04] <bluesabre> I'd be willing to support if we went forward with the proposal.
[22:04] <pleia2> ok, thanks bluesabre
[22:05] <jphilips> unlike IRC, its easy to ban someone from the telegram group, unless they create another account with a new cell number
[22:05] <pleia2> I'm wondering if we could do a trial, and if it doesn't work just split them off to entirely separate resources
[22:05] <bluesabre> Haven't done server-side stuff for Xubuntu to this point, but that's what I spend a lot of my time on in my IRL job
[22:06] <pleia2> doesn't work == spam, unreliability, anything else that annoys people
[22:07] <Unit193> I *really* don't like that it basically would change #xubuntu-offtopic into a logged channel. :/
[22:07] <bluesabre> That seems like a reasonable way to go about it. If the bridges turn out to be bad, the Telegram support group could just be a separate supported.
[22:07] <pleia2> I don't think we'd do it for offtopic
[22:08] <bluesabre> Unit193: oh, this is only considering #xubuntu and #xubuntu-devel
[22:08] <Unit193> bluesabre: Aha!  Thanks!
[22:08] <jphilips> does anyone here have OP for #xubuntu, so we can do the trial?
[22:09] <bluesabre> jphilips: where is the current bridge currently hosted? Would we need to move infra first?
[22:10] <jphilips> aaditya is hosting it now on his private server
[22:10] <Unit193> Who is aaditya?
[22:10] <jphilips> the sysadmin who volunteered to assist in setting up the bridge
[22:10] <Unit193> ...Yes thanks I got that part...
[22:10] <pleia2> hehe
[22:10] <bluesabre> lol
[22:11] <pleia2> jphilips: aaditya is ok with us going "into production" with it still on his server, right?
[22:12] <pleia2> aside from that, I suspect it's up to us whether we want to move it now or later
[22:13] <jphilips> yes
[22:15] <pleia2> so, do we want to move it first? :)
[22:15] <pleia2> I'd be more comfortable that way, but it's signing up bluesabre for work :D
[22:15] <bluesabre> I'll be deep in Github for the next week
[22:16] <jphilips> aaditya could do it to ease the burden
[22:16] <pleia2> he's been a very helpful volunteer, but it probably requires giving root on our development server, and I'm not willing to do that :\
[22:16] <pleia2> we know bluesabre, but we don't know aaditya yet
[22:16] <bluesabre> But if we're fine with waiting a week, I'd happily help get it set up after that.
[22:17] <jphilips> okay
[22:17] <pleia2> seems fine to me
[22:18] <bluesabre> pleia2: do I need to talk to somebody in Canonical to get server access, or do you handle that within our team?
[22:18] <pleia2> that's me
[22:18] <bluesabre> Neato.
[22:18] <pleia2> I just need a public ssh key and preferred username
[22:18] <bluesabre> Cool, I'll send those your way.
[22:19] <pleia2> great
[22:19] <bluesabre> Once I finish the Github migration, we'll do the bridge. :)
[22:19] <pleia2> oh, you already have an account
[22:19] <bluesabre> Unit193: And you're the one to talk to about OP on #xubuntu, I take it?
[22:19] <bluesabre> pleia2: oh
[22:19] <ochosi> hah
[22:19] <pleia2> so just lmk if you can't log in and we can update your key ;)
[22:19] <Unit193> Would this be another thing we vote on?
[22:20] <pleia2> Unit193: oh, probably
[22:20] <bluesabre> Yeah, that seems fair.
[22:20] <bluesabre> :D
[22:20] <jphilips> presume OP isn't necessary, was only needed for a trial I was thinking about doing were the telegram bot would muted from the IRC side
[22:20] <bluesabre> #vote Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?
[22:20] <meetingology> Please vote on: Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?
[22:20] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[22:21] <pleia2> +1
[22:21] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[22:21] <Unit193> -1
[22:21] <meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
[22:21] <bluesabre> +1
[22:21] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[22:21] <bluesabre> ochosi knome krytarik?
[22:22] <bluesabre> (this one will probably head to ML)
[22:22] <ochosi> hm
[22:22] <ochosi> -1
[22:22] <meetingology> -1 received from ochosi
[22:23] <bluesabre> Alrighty, ML it is for this one :)
[22:23] <bluesabre> #endvote
[22:23] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?
[22:23] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:2 Abstentions:0
[22:23] <meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
[22:23] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge
[22:23] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge
[22:24] <bluesabre> #subtopic Xubuntu Council Nominations for the 22.04 Cycle
[22:24] <bluesabre> 20.04 was great, and now its time for a 22.04 council
[22:25] <bluesabre> I don't remember what we did last time, tbh
[22:25] <bluesabre> So I'm gonna have to dig :D
[22:25] <Unit193> [18:27:30] < Unit193> If we want to be lazy and use a template: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2018-April/011644.html
[22:25] <bluesabre> I love not digging
[22:25] <bluesabre> :D
[22:26] <Unit193> So, you, Simon and Lyz this time? :>
[22:26] <pleia2> lol
[22:26] <bluesabre> I'll do lots of begging
[22:27] <bluesabre> So yeah, I'll fire that announcement off to the ML too
[22:27] <ochosi> i'm more than likely to stick around, just not sure how actively
[22:27] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations
[22:27] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations
[22:27] <ochosi> as you've noticed i've drifted more and more towards the various upstreams (be it shimmer or xfce)
[22:28] <pleia2> as for me, being a new parent is hard
[22:28] <bluesabre> I'm just lazy most days
[22:28] <pleia2> hehe
[22:29] <bluesabre> Let's get this wrapped up soon so everybody can have a nice evening :)
[22:29] <bluesabre> #topic AOB
[22:29] <Unit193> We might need more ML list moderators.
[22:29] <bluesabre> Anybody, anything to discuss?
[22:29] <bluesabre> Yeah
[22:29] <bluesabre> I should do a better job of it
[22:29] <bluesabre> (or some job of it)
[22:30] <Unit193> I do spam, but there's other stuff there now too. :P
[22:30] <Unit193> I had another thing, but I can't remember.
[22:31] <pleia2> oh yeah, I haven't been tending to the queue at all :\
[22:31] <pleia2> sometimes I look and let month+ old things through
[22:31] <pleia2> "oops"
[22:31] <pleia2> so if anyone wants to help with moderation, do let us know :)
[22:31] <bluesabre> "Those darn ubuntu mail servers, they hold email forever"
[22:31] <pleia2> for -devel mostly it's letting legit things through and replying to support requests redirecting them to support
[22:32] <bluesabre> :)
[22:33] <bluesabre> Anything else?
[22:33] <bluesabre> (I smell dinner)
[22:33] <jphilips> do we want to consider opening a forum or discourse for support?
[22:33] <Unit193> Still can't remember it, so guess not.
[22:33] <Unit193> ubuntuforums.org
[22:34] <bluesabre> ^ seems like the way to go
[22:34] <Unit193> Pretty sure they have a flavors section already, so we're set.
[22:34] <bluesabre> Nifty.
[22:34] <jphilips> yes a section for all flavors
[22:34] <jphilips> each flavor has their own forum or discourse
[22:35] <Unit193> Seems covered then.
[22:35] <jphilips> maybe what i said wasn't clear enough. none of the flavors use ubuntuforums.org
[22:36] <bluesabre> I think we have an adequate number of support options for now in askubuntu, irc, xfce forums, and non-specialized ubuntu forums
[22:37] <jphilips> okay
[22:37] <bluesabre> Wrapping up :)
[22:37] <bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
[22:37] <bluesabre> #action knome to schedule next meeting
[22:37] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to schedule next meeting
[22:37] <bluesabre> #endmeeting
[22:37] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 19 22:37:50 2020 UTC.
[22:37] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-05-19-21.02.moin.txt
[22:37] <bluesabre> Thanks everybody
[22:38] <bluesabre> Dinner time, bbl
[22:38] <Unit193> Thanks, bluesabre.
[22:39] <jphilips> thanks bluesabre
[22:39] <ochosi> thanks
[22:39] <ochosi> have a nice evening/night everyone
[22:39] <jphilips> you to ochosi
[22:40] <Unit193> pleia2: Nice to catch you around again!
[23:36] <Unit193> Hrm, is it July yet?  Can I scrub bionic from all PPAs? :3


[01:17] <wileee> when I see rockstar_ Tim Curry singing in the Rocky Horror Picture Show start playing in the background of my consciousness
[01:18] <wileee> starts*
[01:19] <daftykins> :D
[01:20] <wileee> meh pop culture nics argh
[01:21] <daftykins> t-nelson *facepalm*
[01:21] <wileee> ;)
[02:07] <daftykins> that's a great Bjork track, Army of One!
[02:08] <ObrienDave> dang, t-whatever is all alone now. grrrr
[02:09] <daftykins> hmm?
[02:09] <daftykins> he's a bit of a nob
[02:09] <ObrienDave> a BIT????
[02:09] <ObrienDave> ;p
[02:10] <daftykins> XD
[02:16] <ObrienDave> oh, noob. i thought you meant knob ;P
[02:16] <daftykins> yeah i meant nob :)
[02:17] <daftykins> he clearly knows something, just... not channel policy! :D
[02:17] <ObrienDave> lol
[02:17] <ObrienDave> i'm not so sure of either. afaik, software does the caching, not the tuner card ROFL
[02:18] <daftykins> ah i wasn't paying attention to that stuff :>
[02:18] <ObrienDave> i'm sure some have RAM for buffering
[02:18] <daftykins> i'd rather obtain TV episodes than watch such an outmoded method of delivery as broadcast
[02:18] <ObrienDave> i'd rather use handbrake ;P
[02:19] <ObrienDave> or MakeMKV
[02:19] <daftykins> hmm takes too long to transcode blurays to sane sizes
[02:19] <daftykins> i did look at it for a client who i have a diskless setup for
[02:19] <daftykins> discless rather
[02:20] <daftykins> ~1000 DVD films all on a RAID volume, playable from HTPCs running Kodi atop Linux
[02:20] <daftykins> over the network
[02:20] <ObrienDave> i have time. i'll rip a $2 blu-ray and wait 12 hours for a 4G .mp4
[02:21] <ObrienDave> rental, that is
[02:21] <daftykins> why make it so small o0
[02:21] <ObrienDave> i cut rez by 50%, still watchable at 25% size :)
[02:22] <daftykins> erk i could never do that
[02:22] <daftykins> i like my 10Mb+ H.264 transcodes with a minimum of DTS
[02:22] <daftykins> at full res
[02:22] <ObrienDave> lappy does not complain ;P
[06:57]  * wileee practices eye rolling
[07:04] <TJ-> always the casw when a user believes they've discovered some bug that no-one ever saw before. I suspect there's some custom settings inherited from previous releases, after reading the bug report I found complaining about the opposite behaviour
[07:13] <wileee> most likely yes, it seems there are just frustrated and externalizing the blame, failure does not warn itself.
[07:24] <wileee> excellent research TJ-
[07:50] <lordievader> Good morning.
[12:49] <OerHeks> :-)
[12:53] <EriC^^> TJ-: win10 seems to have fixed itself, booted today and it was at around 70'c most of the time
[13:57] <OerHeks> carefull with that new win10 DNS leak, EriC^^ :-D
[14:14] <EriC^^> :D
[14:15] <lordievader> That DNS leak is soo bad... Who thought that was a good idea?
[14:52] <OerHeks> lordievader, China & USA
[16:59] <daftykins> DNS leak?
[17:03] <OerHeks> yes, you visited xkcd and imgur .. no?
[17:13] <lordievader> daftykins: Windows 10 queries all interfaces for DNS, the fastest response is taken. If that is a rogue dns or not, if it is quick it is followed.
[17:17] <daftykins> ah, you'd have to be using DHCP then still?
[17:19] <lordievader> Not necessarily.
[19:24] <tintedwindows> dubba dubba dubba heyyyyyy
[19:25] <daftykins> nice entrance
[19:25] <tintedwindows> :)
[19:26] <tintedwindows> has anyone heard if the ifconig command is going to be obsolete soon?
[19:30] <daftykins> no timing but definitely murmurings that ifconfig will move to the 'ip' set
[19:31] <daftykins> i play with it occasionally but don't really like how it presents information
[19:32] <tintedwindows> yea i normally use ip addr
[19:33] <tintedwindows> but i was messing around in Kali and read that in a forum and was like,,,  whhaaaaaatttt
[19:33] <daftykins> then i can increase your efficiency, because "ip a" does just that
[19:33] <tintedwindows> nice!
[19:34] <tintedwindows> thanks
[20:02] <lordievader> tintedwindows: That is about time, ifconfig is crap.
[20:03] <lordievader> http://inai.de/2008/02/19
[20:03] <tintedwindows> what is that?
[20:04] <lordievader> tintedwindows: Read it ;)
[20:07] <tintedwindows> nice this is amazing
[20:07] <lordievader> Uhu, ifconfig needs to die ;)
[20:08] <tintedwindows> haha
[20:08] <tintedwindows> thats what ive been reading in Kali forums at least
[20:09] <lordievader> Oh, they'll agree with me for sure ;)
[20:09] <tintedwindows> do you have any info or good sites like that- that talk about amping up network security?
[20:10] <tintedwindows> OMG do you play quake, quak2 or open arena?!
[20:11] <lordievader> Err, not really. I'm still just a beginner with pentesting, etc.
[20:11] <lordievader> No?
[20:11] <tintedwindows> only cause i saw maps for DOOM on that site wasnt sure if you were into it
[20:11] <tintedwindows> yea me too
[20:12] <lordievader> Setting up proper firewall rules is a good start I suppose.
[20:14] <lordievader> https://www.reddit.com/user/andyrey/m/security is interesting.
[20:16] <daftykins> you folks caught this one? though it's Windows only as-is, it doesn't prevent the idea that the EFI on Lenovo systems could start doing something to Linux hosts too at some point
[20:16] <daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29497693
[20:20] <EriC^^> well that sucks
[20:20] <lordievader> If it's [1] it would be very interesting. [1] https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Kallenberg/DEFCON-22-Corey-Kallenberg-Extreme-Privilage-Escalation.pdf
[20:22]  * daftykins clicks
[23:41] <wileee> mastering anything is a time factor, bout 10,000 hours for music, you gotta be obsessed, or a good time manager, IT may have more or less the same time.
[23:41] <wileee> about*
[23:49] <OerHeks> I have 13.767 tracks, 37 days 10:53:23 hrs ~ just 898 hours
[23:50] <JanC> I don't think that's what wileee was referring to  :)
[23:51] <OerHeks> I just needed to see the perspective, JanC
[23:51] <OerHeks> 10,000 hrs is more than one year
[23:51] <wileee> OerHeks, hexdecimalagain comments
[23:51] <wileee> mastering a craft etc
[23:52] <OerHeks> oh oke
[23:53] <wileee> It is a tough one, there are so many areas to be good in, music is as well, I can play jazz proficiently however ethnic musics out side that are difficult to just pick up.
[23:53] <wileee> IT*
[23:54] <JanC> Quod Libet says I have over 128 days of music  :P
[23:54] <JanC> which is really crazy
[23:54] <wileee> JanC, playing or practicing?
[23:54] <wileee> err listening
[23:54] <JanC> it's a music player
[23:54] <wileee> making songs?
[23:55] <JanC> so I could be listening to different albums for 128 days
 which is really crazy
[23:56] <OerHeks> But i do have all the cds ... or just the cover .. or just the scratched cd ..
[23:56] <wileee> Ah, do what you enjoy, heh.
[23:56] <JanC> wileee: some of my friends make music though
[23:56] <JanC> so I know a bit what's involved etc.
[23:57] <wileee> If your into it, it is a blissful expression no matter the level your at, hopefully for all.


[00:10] <Ankman> aye
[00:43] <IdleOne> MagicFab_: 0/
[00:43] <IdleOne> Wow, I got a big head
[00:58] <MagicFab_> :)
[00:59] <MagicFab_> j'ai trop changé d'environnement
[01:03] <cyphermox> o/
[01:03] <cyphermox> Chex: hey. I've caught the biking virus :D
[02:39] <Chex> cyphermox: errr, what kind of biking?
[02:39] <Chex> en moto, ou velo?
[02:39] <cyphermox> Chex: moto
[02:40] <cyphermox> scooter actually.
[02:40] <Chex> cyphermox: no way!! :D
[02:40] <cyphermox> liking it a lot ;)
[02:40] <Chex> yeah, its pretty addicting
[02:40] <Chex> just watch out for these horrible Montreal drivers :(
[02:40] <cyphermox> hehe
[02:40] <Chex> im actually moto-less this year.. sold my Ducati last fall
[02:41] <Chex> kind of miss it, but trying to bicycle more.
[02:41] <cyphermox> ok
[02:41] <Chex> ill buy another moto next year.. Ijust couldnt stomache all the monies I would have had to pay Quebec to get a new canadian bike on the road
[02:41] <Chex> this year
[02:42] <Chex> anyways, enjoy
[02:42] <cyphermox> hehe
[02:45] <Chex> cyphermox: I met a anglo guy from BC here inMontreal recently, hes mad about scootering on his vespa
[02:45] <Chex> he just rode it to Toronto and back
[02:46] <cyphermox> fun
[02:46] <cyphermox> I haven't rode much yet, need to go slow for the break in period
[02:46] <Chex> oh yeah
[02:46] <Chex> its new? nice.. what brand is it?
[02:46] <cyphermox> PGO
[02:46] <Chex> actually he has a Honda now that I think about it
[02:46] <Chex> ahh nice
[02:46] <cyphermox> T-Rex B1 2012
[02:46] <Chex> how many cc's?
[02:47] <cyphermox> 49, it's the most I can get without a motorcycle license
[02:47] <Chex> oh right
[02:47] <cyphermox> I may look into that next year or later
[02:47] <Chex> i forget how Quebec is graduated like that, actually my state is like that, too
[02:47] <Chex> its a big hassle here.. permit, wait 9 months, then take a strict riding test
[02:48] <cyphermox> yeah
[02:48] <Chex> and you have to pay extra on your yearly license to keep the moto endorsement
[02:48] <cyphermox> my scooter license was done in two days
[02:48] <Chex> $!$! quebec :/
[02:49] <Chex> in Mass, you can take a beginners MSF moto course, and if you pass, you automatically get your moto endorsement on your license
[02:49] <Chex> and no extra fees on the standard auto class license..
[02:50] <Chex> at $12/year :P~
[02:55] <cyphermox> hehe