[10:36] <jam> frosty__: There are 2 types of "conflicts" that can occur during 'pull'
[10:36] <jam> 1) if you have uncommitted changes, and upstreams changes conflict with yours
[10:36] <jam> these are resolved like any other file-level conflicts
[10:37] <jam> by editing and then running 'bzr resolve'
[10:37] <jam> 2) If you have made local commits, and they have made commits
[10:37] <jam> In that case, you can't turn your branch into a copy of theirs
[10:37] <jam> because you have committed changes
[10:37] <jam> So you either need to
[10:37] <jam> switch and use "merge"
[10:37] <jam> *or* use "pull --overwrite"
[10:38] <jam> which says "Make mine like theirs, and throw out my changes"
[10:38] <poolie> ok
[10:39] <poolie> so to wrap up 'starting a new project'
[10:39] <poolie> to make a new branch, do 'bzr init DIR' - can be either an existing unversioned source tree, or it will create a directory
[10:40] <poolie> you can tell bazaar about files to ignore - typically build products like *.o or *.pyc
[10:40] <poolie> using 'bzr ignore', or by editing .bzrignore at the top level
[10:41] <poolie> then do 'bzr add' to tell bazaar you want to version all the files, or you can add them individually
[10:41] <poolie> then commit, and you're off and running
[10:41] <poolie> that concludes my tutorial content -- jam, anything to add?
[10:41] <jam> poolie: I think that is good, as long as people don't have more questions on the demo
[10:42] <poolie> let's do some questions then
[10:42] <jam> ih70: QUESTION: Why do we need yet another source control system. What objectives does bzr achieve that are not possible in say SVN?
[10:42] <jam> frosty__: QUESTION: Why should someone use bazaar, over another distributed system? Say, darcs, git, or mercurial?
[10:43] <jam> Well, each of the projects takes a little bit different approach to the world of VCS
[10:43] <jam> To start with
[10:43] <jam> SVN... the juggernaut of centralized version conttrol
[10:44] <jam> SVN has evolved into a very good system for versioning source code where everyone is given access to the same repository
[10:44] <jam> well, at least a 'good' system...
[10:44] <jam> What it doesn't handle very well, though, is repeated merging between branches
[10:44] <jam> Or being able to commit "offline"
[10:44] <jam> Like on your laptop while on a plane
[10:45] <jam> But the biggest difference is the idea of "decentralized".
[10:45] <jam> With bzr, anyone can create a local branch of an existing project
[10:45] <jam> and make their changes, committing as they go
[10:45] <jam> And then present their changes to 'upstream' in a fashion that is easy to merge back
[10:46] <jam> With SVN, anyone not priveledged with commit access has to fall back to diff and patch
[10:46] <jam> making them a second-class citizen
[10:46] <jam> With bzr, you have full access to version control
[10:46] <jam> It actually follows the Open Source philosophy very well
[10:48] <jam> Now, pretty much all of the DVCS systems support that too. Which is what the "Distributed" is in Distributed Version Control System
[10:48] <jam> So why "bzr" versus darcs, git, monotone, hg, ...
[10:48] <jam> I could go into a blow-by-blow of how we function differently from each of them, but that is a very long discussion
[10:49] <jam> The short answer is that we have tried (and continue to put a lot of effort) into making bzr a great system that you enjoy using
[10:49] <jam> We support multiple workflows from fully distributed to mostly centralized (like SVN).
[10:49] <jam> We are getting better and better integration with Launchpad
[10:49] <jam> allowing you to track open bugs and close them from a simple 'bzr commit'
[10:50] <jam> And it is also the system that Ubuntu is switching to for its development
[10:50] <jam> because it wants to make it easy to contribute changes back and forth between Ubuntu and upstream (debian, etc)
[10:50] <jam>   Admiral_Chicago: jam: can't SVN be set up with anyone having commit rights
[10:51] <jam> SVN can be set up to give everyone access rights
[10:51] <jam> but that is sort of like changing your web page to remove any password protected logins
[10:51] <jam> Anyone can now introduce changes into your core
[10:51] <jam> With bzr, everyone has access to create changes
[10:51] <jam> but *you* have control over your mainline
[10:51] <jam> And bzr just makes it (much) easier to merge their changes
 QUESTION: (As a non-programmer) Suppose I would like to have a versioned home directory (not just source, most of it text though) (the Video directory excluded) and have the home of my laptop "merged" regularly with the home of my desktop. Would using bzr make sense somehow? (Or are you aware of better alternatives, maybe transparent versioned file systems for Ubuntu?)
[10:52] <jam> Also, SVN doesn't handle merging between branches within the same repository very well... we let you do it from anywhere
[10:53] <poolie> Adhemar: bzr could be good for that; you should also look at Unison, which is just a two-way smart synchronization tool
[10:53] <jam> Adhemar: I use bzr for the files I modify, like .vimrc .bashrc, etc
[10:53] <jam> but for most projects
[10:53] <jam> I have a separate bzr branch for them
[10:54] <jam> rather than having everything in one mega-project in my home dir
[10:54] <jam> ih70: QUESTION: How well does bzr deal with binary files?
[10:54] <jam> ih70: In general, bzr handles binary files well
[10:54] <jam> The binary delta code is not optimal
[10:54] <jam> but it does produce deltas
[10:55] <jam> The biggest shortcomming is handling of *large* (100MB+) files.
[10:55] <jam> We are focused right now on making bzr very good for source control
[10:55] <jam> and versioning CD ISO's is a very different project
[10:55] <jam>   rmunn: QUESTION: If I'm using bzr, but upstream isn't, how do I easily create a patch to present to them? Is there a "bzr push --patch" or some such command?
[10:56] <poolie> rmunn: easiest is
[10:56] <poolie> bzr diff -r ancestor:../upstream .
[10:56] <poolie> if your import of their upstream branch is in ../upstearm
 QUESTION: Can you push through web proxies, using dav, and on web servers needing authentication?
[10:57] <poolie> yes, you can
[10:58] <jam> Loic: QUESTION: Is it possible to use bzr for package creation, and has it been done (pros/cons)?
[10:58] <jam> Loic: I know there are a couple of ways to do this
[10:58] <jam> There is a "bzr-buildpackage" plugin
[10:58] <jam> to help automate generating debian packages (and possibly rpms as well)
[10:59] <jam> In general, with bzr you can have finer grained details about what has been changing, associated with the actual changes to the files
[10:59] <jam> versus a "release 1.1" has these changes versus "1.0".
[11:00] <jam> rulus: question: I'm using bzr for school reports made in Latex. I'm thinking of hosting the branch on my webspace as a backup, and then commit changes to it through bzr. However, I don't want the whole world to read my school reports. Is there some bzr gpg plugin to en/decrypt on the fly?
[11:00] <jam> rulus: At present, there is not an encrypted layer
[11:00] <jam> however, you can use .htaccess files to control who has access to your files
[11:00] <poolie> time to finish...
[11:01] <poolie> rulus: someone is working on an encrypted storage format
[11:01] <jam> and there is a Google SoC project for having an encrypted repository
[11:01] <jam> I think we need to wrap it up
[11:01] <jam> Since it is time for the next session
[11:01] <jam> But I would like to invite everyone to #bzr if they have any more questions
[11:05] <jam> As always, questions are more than welcome in #bzr
[11:05] <jam> Thanks to everyone who participated.
[11:05] <PriceChild> Thanks jam, poolie
[11:06] <PriceChild> imbrandon, You're up :)
[11:22] <PriceChild> Seems like imbrandon is away, hopefully he will be able to hold this session on thursday at the same time.
[11:22] <PriceChild> Sorry all.
[11:22] <deniz_ogut> Thank you PriceChild. It was a great day.
[11:30] <shawarma> PriceChild: What is Brandon's session about anyway? I can't seem to find a description anywhere.
[11:31] <PriceChild> "Resource Primer"
[11:31] <shawarma> Yes?
[11:31] <shawarma> Meaning?
[11:31] <shawarma> :-)
[11:31] <Nergar> no sessions in progress?
[11:33] <n2diy> Nope, the teacher cut class! :)
[11:38] <eolo999> great!?!
[11:38] <eolo999> he got asleep


[02:44] <micahg> asac: the TB locales karmic package in my mozilla test PPA has the final changes which I think will work once we get m-dev in
[06:40] <martinjh99> IS there any news on Thunderbird 2.0 for Ubuntu?
[06:44] <martinjh99> Is there going to be a Thundeerbird 2 package before Lucid?
[12:45] <gnomefreak> how do you use spell check in Firefox? it tells me they are spelled wrong but i dont see a menu item that would help with the spelling. is this expected?
[12:46] <micahg> gnomefreak: right click?
[12:46] <gnomefreak> micahg: ok the word?
[12:46] <micahg> yep, you should get options
[12:47] <gnomefreak> ah ok i see it. thanks
[13:28] <micahg> asac: around?
[13:30] <fta> micahg, too early
[13:31] <fta> he's in portland this week
[13:31] <micahg> fta: I know, wasn't sure if he was adjusting to local time or not
[13:31] <gnomefreak> oragon?
[13:31] <micahg> gnomefreak: yes
[13:32] <gnomefreak> ah
[13:43] <vish> micahg: did you happen to have time to check if Bug #66015 , in dictionaries-common is fixed? [i dont use multiple languages so couldnt check]
[13:43] <micahg> vish: sorry, not yet, you want to do it?
[13:44] <vish> micahg: not sure how to check :s
[13:44] <micahg> it's on my list...
[13:44] <vish> ah great , ok then  ..
[13:44] <micahg> vish: if you're on lucid, make sure the symlinks aren't in the /usr/share/myspell/dicts dir
[13:45] <micahg> underscores, not dashes
[13:45] <micahg> *you should only have
[13:47] <vish> micahg: hmm , i have both underscores and dashes for en GB [been using lucid since alpha 1]  > http://paste.ubuntu.com/366848/
[13:48] <vish> en AU and US
[13:49] <micahg> hmmm
[13:49] <micahg> vish: then I guess I need to look into it :)
[13:49] <vish> thanks :)
[13:51]  * vish tries to kick start the awesome bar again :/
[14:10] <micahg> vish: you got a shout out in the planet: http://ddorda.useopensource.net/lernid-found-an-icon :)
[14:11] <vish> :D
[17:03] <ccheney> asac: ping
[17:03] <ccheney> is chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-nonfree in the main ubuntu archive?
[17:05] <fta> ccheney, no, not yet
[17:05] <fta> and it may never be in main
[17:05] <fta> maybe in multiverse
[17:06] <fta> or not at all
[17:14] <ccheney> oh i thought it was slated for multiverse and with the free version for main, but neither appear to be in the archive yet
[17:58] <fta> ccheney, they are not, the package is 99% ready, i just need to reword the copyright file and upload
[18:01] <ccheney> ok
[18:20] <ccheney> is there a way to set chromium to save tabs on quit like firefox?
[18:23] <fta> yes, there's a pref
[18:27] <ccheney> fta: is it hidden somewhere, i just started using it today
[18:27] <fta> nope, 1st option
[18:28] <ccheney> ah i see it now, i think i am blind :)
[18:28] <ccheney> fta: thanks for the help
[18:49] <gnomefreak> micahg: are you here by chance? you are the resident thunderbird hacker
[18:50] <micahg> gnomefreak: yep, heh
[18:50] <gnomefreak> micahg: anyway atm to add a "move to" button on the toolbar? or do i have to file upstream bug?
[18:51] <gnomefreak> i havent found a way yet
[18:51] <micahg> gnomefreak: there's a folder location toolbar is that it?
[18:52] <gnomefreak> micahg: but it doesnt give you an option to move it just folders
[18:52] <micahg> gnomefreak: ah, yeah probably upstream...
[18:52] <gnomefreak> micahg: ok thanks
[19:21] <gnomefreak> NEWSFLASH: There is more than 1 browser in Ubuntu
[19:22]  * gnomefreak tired of reading "i not going to use Ubuntu anymore because Firefox is going to use Yahoo
[19:22] <gnomefreak> "
[19:31] <gnomefreak> kenvandine: why is gwibber wanting access to the gnome-keyring?
[19:31] <gnomefreak> and it still doesnt open
[19:33] <gnomefreak> >15 import errors
[19:38]  * gnomefreak wonders what other blog apps there are in Ubuntu be back need smoke
[19:46] <gnomefreak> freenode changed code around and now it keeps being spammed more than ever now
[19:46]  * micahg uses akregator gnomefreak
[19:47] <gnomefreak> hmmm not bad idea thanks
[19:49] <gnomefreak> can a RSS feed reader be used for ident and twitter type blogs?
[19:49] <micahg> gnomefreak: to read them?  yes
[19:49] <gnomefreak> micahg: read nad post?
[19:49] <micahg> I think most publish RSS feeds
[19:49] <gnomefreak> s/nad/and
[19:50] <micahg> no, I don't think post
[19:50]  * micahg found pidgin has a microblog plugin
[19:51] <gnomefreak> wouldnt give you $.25 for it
[19:53]  * gnomefreak tried blogtk for now until maybe gwibber gets fixed
[19:54] <gnomefreak> s/tried/tries
[20:03] <gnomefreak> ok seems i cant use blogtk :(
[20:05] <gnomefreak> i canmt find the .php page for indent and twitter
[23:23] <asac> fta: good news ;) ...  i talked to the qa folks and it seems we wont have the ppa builders going out that long anymore soon
[23:24] <asac> turned out they is a bug in some script so the builders stay out for longer
[23:24] <asac> e.g. they usually shouldnt be gone for longer than 2h i was told
[23:24] <BUGabundo> eeheh


[07:15] <jfer> hi. i am having some trouble changing my theme for the wiki to the newest one. can someone help me?
[07:24] <nisshh> jfer, wiki.ubuntu.com?
[07:24] <nisshh> gah!
[09:38] <head_victim> jfer: you still need wiki help?
[09:46] <gorilla> Did I miss the meeting?
[09:46] <jfer> hi. i found that there was a bug with the wiki in changing themes.
[09:46] <jfer> does anyone know of a fix?
[09:46] <head_victim> jfer: ah not sure, link to the bug I can ask around?
[09:47] <head_victim> gorilla: not yet, another hour
[09:47] <gorilla> head_victim: heh.. typical.. still better than being an hour late :-D
[09:47] <head_victim> gorilla: haha indeed
[09:47] <jfer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/685436
[09:48]  * gorilla will shut up now.
[09:48] <nisshh> hehe
[09:48] <nisshh> jfer, does that happen when changing to the 'light' theme or to any theme?
[09:49] <head_victim> gorilla: glad you're here though
[09:49] <nisshh> yeah]
[09:49] <jfer> any theme
[09:49] <head_victim> jfer: that's a login issue not a theme change issue
[09:49] <nisshh> jfer, hmm, ok, its never happened to me
[09:49] <head_victim> Make sure you're properly logged in (I had the same issue so I logged out of everything launchpad ish I was in then went back and completely relogged in) and it seemed to work
[09:49] <nisshh> jfer, are you logged into the wiki properly when you try and change themes?
[09:50] <jfer> yes
[09:50] <nisshh> took the words right out of my mouth head_victim :)
[09:50] <nisshh> jfer, try what head_victim is suggesting, that will probably work
[09:50] <head_victim> nisshh: wikis are about the only thing I'm confident on :D
[09:51] <jfer> ok
[09:51] <nisshh> head_victim, hehe
[09:51] <nisshh> head_victim, wiki's are just the thing you have the most experience with :)
[09:52] <head_victim> nisshh: that is true
[09:52] <nisshh> hehe
[09:52] <head_victim> I can't do any real website stuff though but I can pretend I can with wikis.
[09:52] <nisshh> haha
[09:52] <nisshh> head_victim, oh cmon, html is easy :)
[09:53] <head_victim> nisshh: htm what?
[09:53] <nisshh> lol
[09:53] <head_victim> :D
[09:53] <nisshh> if you cant write basic HTML, you cant operate a car :)
[09:53] <head_victim> I'm sure I could steal someone else's work and make it do something remotely like what I want to do, does that count?
[09:53] <nisshh> brb, getting something to eat
[09:53] <jfer> still doesn't work
[09:54] <nisshh> head_victim, no, thats what darkrose would do :)
[09:54] <head_victim> jfer: ok does it give you any errors logging in to the wiki?
[09:54] <nisshh> jfer, make sure to log out of launchpad and the wiki, not just the wiki
[09:54] <head_victim> I've pinged the person who wrote that bug report but he lives in Finnland from memory so probably not at his PC
[10:06] <head_victim> jfer: still searching for answers mate, haven't forgotten. Let me konw if you find a fix so I can pass it on
[10:14] <jfer> head_victim:thanks mate
[10:31] <jellyware> is the meeting on now?
[10:32] <head_victim> in 30 mins jellyware
[10:32] <jellyware> huh?  10pm?
[10:32] <jellyware> thought it was 9:30pm
[10:32] <head_victim> 9pm for gmt+10
[10:33] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings for agenda items or to add your own :D
[10:34] <nisshh> head_victim, looks like we might get a slightly better than normal turnout :)
[10:34] <head_victim> nisshh: here's hoping
[10:36] <jellyware> was'nt 9pm aest half an hour ago???
[10:37] <nisshh> jellyware, 9pm AEST GMT+10 is in 22 minutes
[10:37] <jellyware> confused
[10:38] <nisshh> jellyware, you must be GMT + 11 if its nearly 10pm for you
[10:38] <nisshh> jellyware, im in GMT + 8 and its only 6:30 :)
[10:38] <nisshh> 6:38 to be exact
[10:38] <jellyware> Its 9:38 in melb
[10:39] <jellyware> but I thought I was living in AEST
[10:39] <nisshh> no
[10:39] <head_victim> Well you are but you have DST at the moment.
[10:39] <nisshh> thats an hour before AEST
[10:39] <head_victim> I hate timezones
[10:39] <nisshh> yeah
[10:39] <nisshh> oh i see, year
[10:39] <nisshh> yeah
[10:40] <nisshh> WA doesnt do DST now, we trialled it for 3 years but it fell through (again)
[10:40] <jellyware> right
[10:40] <nisshh> stupid damn politicians
[10:40] <nisshh> :)
[10:41] <head_victim> I don't get what the fuss is either way. It wouldn't change anything about my life except having to change every clock in the house twice a year.
[10:41] <nisshh> yeah
[10:41] <head_victim> But I am a Qld'er
[10:41] <nisshh> head_victim, im a bit the same, i dont see the advantage of it
[10:41] <nisshh> if there is one
[10:42] <nisshh> head_victim, pm quickly?
[10:43] <joey168> nisshh, yes, you look at least twice a year after your clock
[10:44] <nisshh> joey168, is that the only advantage>
[10:44] <nisshh> +?
[10:44] <joey168> I guess, yes
[10:44] <joey168> confusion
[10:45] <nisshh> i se
[10:45] <nisshh> see
[10:45] <nisshh> grr
[10:45] <nisshh> my spelling is bad today
[10:46] <joey168> english spelling and grammar was never my strength
[10:55] <head_victim> Ok it appears to be heading towards the scheduled time
[10:56] <head_victim> Anyone else here or has everyone gone afk
[10:57] <gorilla> head_victim: I'm still here.
[10:57] <head_victim> *phew* starting to think I had network issues
[10:57] <jellyware> I"m here
[10:58] <jellyware> not sure how long I can hang about though
[10:58] <head_victim> Ok I'll start the meeting
[10:58] <head_victim> #startmeeting
[10:58] <MootBot> Meeting started at 04:58. The chair is head_victim.
[10:58] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[10:58] <gorilla> head_victim: in that case I wish I had stayed quiet.
[10:58] <head_victim> If we can all just say something into the channel to register your attendance
[10:58] <head_victim> gorilla: no banana for you
[10:58] <jellyware> evening all
[10:58] <gorilla> head_victim: had mango smoothie instead.
[10:59] <gorilla> yes, evening all.
[10:59] <head_victim> While we are waiting for people to show attendance if we can all look at the agenda at:
[10:59] <head_victim> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings
[10:59] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings
[11:00] <head_victim> I realise it's a little later for those in the eastern states with DST so I thought I'd just ask if anyone had anything to bring up before they had to leave?
[11:00] <nisshh> it seems not
[11:01] <jellyware> only that I think these meetings used to be at 9:30pm
[11:01] <head_victim> I just thought I'd check because I'd hate to miss someone's specific input because it was getting late.
[11:01] <jfer> good evening
[11:01] <jellyware> or even 9pm
[11:01] <head_victim> jellyware: they are at 2100 just not including DST
[11:01] <gorilla> jellyware: the times go messed up.. just roll with it.
[11:02] <MoLE_> evening all
[11:02] <head_victim> We could try and split the difference and hold them 30 mins earlier during DST if that helps, just if we have it too early those in the western states won't be home from work.
[11:02] <nisshh> hey MoLE_ the meeting has started
[11:02] <head_victim> MoLE_: welcome
[11:02] <MoLE_> Sorry about being late
[11:02] <head_victim> Ok being that no one has anything urgent before they leave I'll start off from the wiki agenda
[11:02] <nisshh> head_victim, no, its 7pm here, there wont really be any issues
[11:02] <head_victim> [TOPIC] Update on LCA2011
[11:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Update on LCA2011
[11:03] <head_victim> Basically I have had confirmation from the LCA organisers that we have been reserved a table.
[11:03] <nisshh> MoLE_, your not, it started 2 minutes ago :)
[11:03] <nisshh> awesome
[11:03] <MoLE_> you stirrer nisshh
[11:03] <gorilla> head_victim: nice work.
[11:03] <MoLE_> wd head_victim
[11:03] <jellyware> nice
[11:03] <head_victim> Now what I need is to make sure that people register their interest at the wiki AND at the official event page
[11:03] <gorilla> MoLE_: don't feed the troll-ite.
[11:03] <head_victim> [LINK] http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/587/detail/
[11:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/587/detail/
[11:03] <nisshh> MoLE_, lol
[11:03] <jellyware> where is it next year?
[11:04] <head_victim> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/LCA2011Brisbane
[11:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/LCA2011Brisbane
[11:04] <gorilla> jellyware: brisbane
[11:04] <gorilla> jellyware: be there or be absent.
[11:04] <nisshh> head_victim, is registering our interest meaning that we are agreeing to be there?
[11:04] <head_victim> nisshh: you might want to look at the options on the loco page I think there is an option to not attend
[11:05]  * darkrose says something to prove she's here
[11:05] <head_victim> darkrose: thanks
[11:05] <nisshh> head_victim, ok, ill have a look
[11:05] <jfer> has anyone requested a conference pack from Canonical yet?
[11:05] <head_victim> With a lot of assistance from elky (ping!) we have put together a request for a conference pack
[11:05] <head_victim> As an unofficial loco though we aren't entitled to much
[11:05] <head_victim> to *as* much sorry
[11:06] <elky> ohai
[11:06] <head_victim> I will also be submitting a separate request to shipit to have some CDs to hand out, hoping that we get some.
[11:06] <nisshh> cool
[11:06] <head_victim> So what I really need assistance with now is making sure I'm not standing there alone all day talking to myself showing an empty table.
[11:07] <gorilla> head_victim: I'll be attending the conference. Need to get away a little early as I have an evening engagement to attend.
[11:07] <head_victim> The organisers have placed an emphasis on "things you can play with" at the stands so I was hoping we'd have volunteers with laptops/netbooks willing to let people from the public "have a play" even if it is only on a livecd.
[11:07] <MoLE_> head_victim, I'd be happy to donate some dosh to get some CDs sent out
[11:07] <head_victim> gorilla: thats fine the open day goes from 1000 until 1600 :)
[11:07] <joey168> head_victim, what are your ideas in regard to the display
[11:08] <head_victim> MoLE_: it's not about the money, if we have to buy them it will be extravagantly expensive so I"m hoping shipit comes to the party.
[11:08] <MoLE_> oh, ok
[11:08] <head_victim> joey168: I will be printing out several posters from spreadubuntu
[11:08] <head_victim> [LINK] http://spreadubuntu.org/
[11:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://spreadubuntu.org/
[11:08] <MoLE_> cool
[11:09] <head_victim> On A3 pages for the back of the stand, I was hoping people could contribute hardware for the table (thanks caryb for putting up something to start with)
[11:09] <jfer> I think it would be cool if we could show off some of the new features coming in Natty in particular with Unity.
[11:09] <head_victim> jfer: yes I agree.
[11:09] <joey168> head_victim, you also want to show some PC's, laptops whatever with Ubuntu
[11:10] <head_victim> The issue we might face is that the table space will be limited so big bulky displays are probably out.
[11:10] <joey168> nice and neat netbooks?
[11:10] <head_victim> To get people interested I thought if we had 3 or 4 people with netbooks willing to walk around and engage people it might be useful as well
[11:10] <gorilla> yes.. a projector is nice as it captures peoples attention.. but depends on the table.
[11:11] <nisshh> a couple of netbooks and maybe a laptop or two would be the best bet
[11:11] <head_victim> Unfortunately I have no hardware to speak of that would be suitable as the only laptop I have barely runs Lubuntu and consistently shuts down due to overheating.
[11:11] <head_victim> gorilla: we need to specifically request projector space but we could have a floor pointing one?
[11:11] <head_victim> nisshh: I agree.
[11:11] <head_victim> There is a place for all brainstorming and volunteering on the wiki link posted above.
[11:11] <nisshh> yeah
[11:12] <gorilla> head_victim: or possibly projecting onto the roof if it's low enough.
[11:12] <head_victim> That about sums up what I wanted to report about the issue. I just want to keep the team informed as it will be a team effort and I'm hoping to see some of you all there.
[11:12] <nisshh> cool
[11:12] <joey168> the netbook I have is with Ubuntu Netbook and some business apps
[11:12] <head_victim> Does anyone have any questions they can think of at the moment (if you think of them later, shoot to the mailing list!)
[11:12] <jfer> does anyone have a touch device?
[11:13] <nisshh> jfer, nice one
[11:13] <head_victim> jfer: wouldn't appear so, maybe hit up the mailing list for a volunteer?
[11:13] <bwright> Hello.
[11:14] <nisshh> hey bwright
[11:14] <MoLE_> jfer, I do, but it runs android
[11:14] <head_victim> gday bwright
[11:14] <nisshh> the meeting is on
[11:14] <bwright> Right now?
[11:14] <nisshh> yes
[11:14] <nisshh> right now :)
[11:14] <nisshh> bwright, it started 15 minutes ago
[11:14] <head_victim> MoLE_: if it's able to run Ubuntu fairly well it might be worth having a tinker but as it's an Open Day and we're representing Ubuntu I think it will have to be specific. Maybe see if you can get Ubuntu on it?
[11:15] <bwright> nisshh: So what are we all talking about?
[11:15] <head_victim> bwright: if you need something non meeting related pop into -chat :)
[11:15] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings
[11:15] <nisshh> bwright, Linux.Conf.Au
[11:15] <MoLE_> head_victim, I'll have a go
[11:16] <head_victim> MoLE_: great, shoot the list an email with how it goes.
[11:16] <jfer> yes i would be interested to hear
[11:16] <head_victim> Ok, so it sound slike we have some good ideas coming up. Please everyone, add them to the wiki, email the list and lets get something happening.
[11:16] <jfer> how does natty fit in with LCA?
[11:16] <jfer> where will it be at in the release schedule?
[11:16] <head_victim> jfer: LCA is January, Natty is April.
[11:17] <head_victim> jfer: only alpha 1
[11:17] <head_victim> Ok so we don't spend the whole meeting on the LCA would anyone be upset if we take further discussion to the list so that everyone can join in?
[11:17] <nisshh> i think alpha 2 might be out around when LCA is on
[11:18] <gorilla> perhaps have a laptop with Natty as a preview but only if it's realiable.
[11:18] <elky> just a warning, the more of natty you show, the more you'll have people wanting. that. right. now. And breakages. Be careful to pretty much drown out the natty demo with non-alpha stuff
[11:18] <gorilla> elky: point!
[11:18] <head_victim> elky: good point, to be honest I don't think alphas are something we want to be showing to people who don't know Ubuntu
[11:19] <elky> unless you want to personally hand hold everyone who'll take it on
[11:19] <head_victim> They regularly crash, freeze, don't work and this changes on a daily basis.
[11:19] <nisshh> head_victim, maybe have it there and whip it out if someone asks?
[11:19] <joey168> I think people want to see what they can do with Ubuntu - Apps
[11:19] <elky> nisshh, if they're actually interested in dev, they'll download. really
[11:19] <head_victim> nisshh: possible, depends on the number of devices available on the day.
[11:20] <elky> keep the message simple
[11:20] <jfer> i think it is important that people can see where Ubuntu is headed
[11:20] <nisshh> elky, im not talking about dev, im talking about showcasing whats coming soon
[11:20] <nisshh> head_victim, yeah
[11:20] <head_victim> jfer: agree but with the limited time of an Open Day I think maybe some screenshots printed out would be about all we could really achieve.
[11:21] <elky> nisshh, that's like saying "here, look at this. but no you can't have"
[11:21] <dejai> elky: That has worked for apple :-)
[11:21] <nisshh> elky, no, its about "here look at this, this is whats coming soon"
[11:21] <jfer> haha my thoughts exactly
[11:22] <head_victim> Ok time to move on? (we can set up a specific LCA meeting if need be or continue on the list).
[11:22] <nisshh> yeah, lets move on
[11:22] <joey168> let's move on
[11:22] <elky> nisshh, it's still not a good way to deal with newbies. they don't understand that they can't have it.. look you have it, why can't i!
[11:22] <elky> it works great for you, why are you not giving it to me. i'll pay you!
[11:23] <nisshh> elky, they CAN have it, they just shouldnt use it yet
[11:23] <head_victim> [ACTION] Continue discussion on the mailing list and get brainstorming on the wiki
[11:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Continue discussion on the mailing list and get brainstorming on the wiki
[11:23] <elky> nisshh, and you won't win that arguement
[11:23] <nisshh> no, i wont, not with you
[11:23] <head_victim> [TOPIC] Discuss current IRC structure - nisshh
[11:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss current IRC structure - nisshh
[11:23] <nisshh> right
[11:23] <head_victim> nisshh: it is an open day not a tech day also
[11:23] <nisshh> head_victim, fair enough
[11:24] <nisshh> ok, so i added this topic in relation to one of the loco council's recommendations
[11:24] <head_victim> nisshh: take it away
[11:24] <head_victim> Link?
[11:24] <nisshh> which was "sort out your irc structure, its confusing for newbies"
[11:24] <nisshh> one sec ill find the link
[11:24] <dejai> IRC is just a protocol it isn't hard to get into a chatroom press a button on a website.
[11:25] <nisshh> dejai, not that sort of thing dude, and if you want to bash, please do so elsewhere
[11:25] <head_victim> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2010-May/006166.html
[11:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2010-May/006166.html
[11:25] <dejai> I thought that was the issue.
[11:25] <head_victim> found it nisshh
[11:26] <head_victim> dejai: I think it's more about the -au and the -au-chat separation
[11:26] <nisshh> thats the one
[11:26] <nisshh> thanks head_victim
[11:26] <nisshh> ok
[11:26] <nisshh> so they were wondering why we had a seperate offtopic channel
[11:26] <dejai> I can certainly see the need for one
[11:27] <nisshh> and i want to put this up for discussion, because its evidently detracting from our main channel
[11:27] <dejai> Been hanging out mainly in -au-chat for around two years it has nothing at all to do with ubuntu
[11:27] <head_victim> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2007-December/002653.html
[11:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2007-December/002653.html
[11:27] <head_victim> That was the original reasoning
[11:27] <nisshh> i find that much of the chat in -chat is somewhat ubuntu/linux related
[11:27] <nisshh> yet people dont use the main channel
[11:28] <nisshh> or rarely do
[11:28] <dejai> Well from personal experience if there is a question about ubuntu it gets answered quick in -au
[11:28] <dejai> And that is aided by the seperation imo
[11:28] <nisshh> yeah, true
[11:28] <nisshh> but many times i have seen people join the main channel, ask, not get a reply and quit
[11:28] <head_victim> The question is if we combine the channels back into one it will mean ALL conversation is logged not just the loco related stuff
[11:28] <nisshh> because people tend to watch -chat more
[11:29] <MoLE_> nisshh, I agree
[11:29] <nisshh> which i dont really see a problem with
[11:29] <dejai> Get a lot of people interested in an irc channel it is bound to go off topic it is better to just keep one clean which would certainly be less confronting to new users as well
[11:30] <nisshh> i mean, if you want to troll, go somewhere else, if you want to discuss something way offtopic, go somewhere else, but i think -au can be used for general chat
[11:30] <dejai> Well it would just kill -au all together
[11:30] <nisshh> no other loco that i know of, or Ubuntu team for that matter, has an offtopic seperate channel
[11:30] <dejai> The best thing about -au is it is very straight forward.
[11:31] <nisshh> dejai, but thats it, it isnt for a newbie
[11:31] <MoLE_> Another key difference is that -chat isn't logged?
[11:31] <head_victim> nisshh: both Ubuntu teams I'm somewhat involved in have offtopic channels though
[11:31] <nisshh> MoLE_, correct
[11:31] <nisshh> head_victim, some do yes, but most dont, and no other loco does to my knowledge
[11:31] <dejai> Which is important to some people however you should assume everything is
[11:31] <nisshh> so what do people think?
[11:31] <dejai> Keep it the same.
[11:32] <nisshh> head_victim, MoLE_, elky, darkrose, gorilla?
[11:32] <darkrose> huh?
[11:32] <head_victim> The main issue I see is that if we merge the channels some of the converstaion that currently occurs in -chat would not be acceptable in here.
[11:32] <head_victim> If people were willing to put up with that then it might be feasible
[11:33] <nisshh> darkrose, read the scrollback
[11:33] <darkrose> it got split because people weren't willing to put up with it
[11:33] <MoLE_> nisshh, probably lean towards a merge.  Much biggers locos than us only have one channel
[11:33] <nisshh> yeah
[11:33] <joey168> I think the biggest hurdel for newbies is the setup, we have to give more clear instructions
[11:33] <nisshh> darkrose, that was back then though
[11:34] <elky> I do not agree with any proposal to merge the channels or any proposal to log -chat.
[11:34] <gorilla> I know that logging a channel is a bad idea as it tends to change the atmosphere. Sure it's worth logging the channe but not make it public.
[11:34] <nisshh> elky, why?
[11:34] <head_victim> gorilla: this room is publically logged and always has been
[11:34] <darkrose> elky++
[11:34] <elky> The channels have distinct purposes. There is no need for everything someone says on the internet to be archived forever.
[11:34] <gorilla> head_victim: yes and I rarely come here ;-)
[11:35] <dejai> Same I never am in ubuntu-au unless I want to talk about locos or have a question
[11:35] <dejai> Or if I feel like answering questions
[11:35] <nisshh> elky, so that outweighs the issue of -au being dead all the time?
[11:35] <elky> We split the channels because people asking help were getting ignored and talked over by people who just wanted to chat rubbish about football etc
[11:35] <elky> nisshh, it's only dead because people aren't thinking before asking things in -chat
[11:36] <darkrose> which is what happens still if someone asks for help in chat most of the time
[11:36] <elky> darkrose, exactly
[11:36] <nisshh> hmm
[11:36] <gorilla> But yes, the biggest stumbling block is the installation. It's intimidating to re-partition your hard drive and hope for the best.
[11:36] <nisshh> should we put it to a vote here and now then?
[11:36] <nisshh> or on the mailing list?
[11:36] <elky> nisshh, i don't think so
[11:37] <elky> the mailing list, sure.
[11:37] <head_victim> nisshh: include the 2 links we've already put in this topic and then put in your comments and we'll see if anyone else has any other opinions we can discuss :)
[11:37] <MoLE_> sounds fair - give those not here a say
[11:38] <nisshh> fair enough, mailing list it is
[11:38] <darkrose> yeah, give those who don't use irc a say on the irc chan's
[11:38] <joey168> that's o.k.
[11:38] <dejai> Or just make -au-chat not official
[11:38] <dejai> Which would happen anyway? Or is the plan to lock people out of the channel
[11:38] <nisshh> as a closing comment, i just dont think its right if some of you dont want anything to change for the benefit of the whole team
[11:38] <head_victim> darkrose: not necessarily, just those that use them that aren't here now
[11:39] <head_victim> dejai: the -chat channel is currently not logged and is about as unofficial as you can get while still maintaining attachment to the group.
[11:39] <nisshh> yeah
[11:39] <nisshh> as i see it, if you want to be offtopic more than the usual amount, there are better places
[11:39] <dejai> I don't think the loco needs to officially maintain it
[11:40] <elky> dejai, it does in that the ubuntu namespace is officially registered with freenode
[11:40] <darkrose> so it comes down to "do we say they're merged, even if the merge is ignored by people that use the channels. or just keep it as is... which is basically the same thing anyway"
[11:40] <nisshh> exactly
[11:40] <dejai> elky: Fair enough
[11:40] <simplechat> nisshh, I find #-au-chat to be invaluable for finding likeminded ubuntu using peoples :)
[11:40] <simplechat> its full of win, in other words
[11:40] <head_victim> [ACTION] nisshh to take IRC Channel discussion to be taken to mailing list to allow those not present to also discuss
[11:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nisshh to take IRC Channel discussion to be taken to mailing list to allow those not present to also discuss
[11:40] <simplechat> nisshh, and I personally would feel great sorrow at its most premature destruction :(
[11:41] <nisshh> simplechat, but almost everyone who sits in -chat also sits in the main channel, so nothing would change for you
[11:41] <simplechat> nisshh, but you can't talk about random issues on the main chan
[11:41] <dejai> Also a lot of -chat members don't subscribe to the mailing list they are ubuntu users that are casually attached to the loco in the sense they use the operating system
[11:41] <simplechat> you can't get to know people
[11:41] <darkrose> it's the almost that makes the difference
[11:41] <nisshh> simplechat, general chat could be done in the main channel easily enough
[11:41] <simplechat> not really
[11:41] <dejai> Well it would
[11:41] <simplechat> it just plain derails
[11:41] <simplechat> it will derail serious conversation
[11:42] <dejai> I am sure I would be banned within a day or two for off topic
[11:42] <simplechat> dejai, same
[11:42] <dejai> Or half the people would idle and never chat
[11:42] <simplechat> nisshh, basically you need clear divisions
[11:42] <dejai> and slowly leave.
[11:42] <nisshh> i really dont get why we cant have one channel if every single other loco has just one, why is this such a big problem to everyone?
[11:42] <dejai> Yes.
[11:42] <simplechat> either this is for ubuntu related issues only and no random discussions
[11:42] <elky> we could just enforce offtopicness in the offtopic channel, too.
[11:42] <simplechat> or this will basically be full of randomness and nothing useful will happen here
[11:42] <darkrose> there's casual chat happening in -chat now... for the pro-mergers do you really think this wouldn't interfere with the meeting?
[11:43] <MoLE_> what do the other locos do?  Do they divide random chat from ubuntu core business?
[11:43] <elky> MoLE_, many do yes
[11:43] <MoLE_> elky, examples?
[11:43] <dejai> Why do we need to follow other locos?
[11:43] <nisshh> darkrose, everyone currently chatting in -chat is also part of the meeting, so no it wouldnt
[11:43] <elky> german team, french team, etc
[11:43] <head_victim> Is it a case of an understanding issue about what should be in what channel maybe nisshh or just the fact that 2 channels exist?
[11:44] <MoLE_> dejai, we don't have to but looking at what other locos do is a good way of getting re-recognised
[11:44] <darkrose> so it comes down to "do we say they're merged, even if the merge is ignored by people that use the channels. or just keep it as is... which is basically the same thing anyway"
[11:44] <nisshh> head_victim, both really
[11:44] <gorilla> nisshh: what about during the footy season/
[11:44] <gorilla> ?
[11:44] <nisshh> gorilla, then create #football :)
[11:45] <gorilla> nisshh: I'm not discussing that silly round ball game.
[11:45] <simplechat> nisshh, it boils down to conditioning. If you know that if you go to #ubuntu-au you'll get a good serious response to your question, that is where you'll go when you have a ubuntu related question. If it's just a place for random chatter, that is where you'll go for that.
[11:45] <dejai> probably taken by something thinking of that other football
[11:45] <simplechat> nisshh, you'll basically turn #ubuntu-au into #ubuntu-au-chat and destroy #ubuntu-au in the process
[11:45] <nisshh> hmmm, i dont think so, no
[11:45] <darkrose> simplechat++
[11:45] <dejai> I have actually been told to go to -au when asking an ubuntu question
[11:45] <dejai> simplechat++
[11:45] <darkrose> that's why the split happened in the first place
[11:45] <dejai> And I think most people know that
[11:45] <head_victim> Well I think for tonight we should agree that we should all be more proactive about using the correct channels appropriately and assisting others to do the same. And bring up the issue of a merge on the mailing list in an appropriate manner that won't incite trolling/flaming
[11:45] <simplechat> nisshh, which is why even on my small irc server, we have #beta and #beta-offtopic
[11:45] <gorilla> I don't see the point of merging</devils advocate>
[11:45] <simplechat> for the same reason
[11:46] <nisshh> so at the very least we would need people to properly use each channel
[11:46] <simplechat> head_victim++
[11:46] <MoLE_> I think we can agree to disagree at this point and perhaps thrash it out on the mailing list.
[11:46] <nisshh> agreed
[11:46] <dejai> head_victim++
[11:46] <darkrose> nisshh: at present, your the number one misuser of -chat as a support channel
[11:46] <nisshh> ok
[11:46] <head_victim> [ACTION] we should all be more proactive about using the correct channels appropriately and assisting others to do the same. And bring up the issue of a merge on the mailing list in an appropriate manner that won't incite trolling/flaming
[11:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  we should all be more proactive about using the correct channels appropriately and assisting others to do the same. And bring up the issue of a merge on the mailing list in an appropriate manner that won't incite trolling/flaming
[11:47] <head_victim> Moving on?
[11:47] <nisshh> darkrose, i never said i was not misusing it, i think we all are
[11:47] <gorilla> please do.
[11:47] <head_victim> [TOPIC] nisshh - Discuss ways we can get the word out there about the LoCo
[11:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  nisshh - Discuss ways we can get the word out there about the LoCo
[11:48] <nisshh> ok
[11:48] <head_victim> nisshh: you again buddy :)
[11:48] <nisshh> so this
[11:48] <nisshh> is about using our social things more to promote the loco and get word out there
[11:48] <nisshh> so our facebook and identica, etc
[11:49] <nisshh> as well as people who post to  Planet Ubuntu (me and a few others as far as i know)
[11:49] <head_victim> [LINK] http://planet.ubuntu.org.au/
[11:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://planet.ubuntu.org.au/
[11:49] <nisshh> currently we dont use our social stuff to announce events about the loco or anything
[11:50] <nisshh> head_victim, i meant the actual PU not the loco one, but yeah
[11:50] <head_victim> nisshh: ah k, sorry
[11:50] <nisshh> its ok :)
[11:50] <head_victim> Thngs like http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-au ?
[11:50] <nisshh> yeah
[11:50] <nisshh> that too i guess
[11:50] <nisshh> events can be listed there i think
[11:50] <head_victim> elky: any progress on having that page updated?
[11:50] <nisshh> and there is also the fridge calendar
[11:50] <head_victim> nisshh: we should have listed the meeting for starters.
[11:50] <elky> eh?
[11:51] <nisshh> head_victim, heh, +1
[11:51] <head_victim> elky: it has next to nothing on it :/
[11:51] <nisshh> so what do people think?
[11:51] <head_victim> as far as resources and things go
[11:51] <elky> head_victim, it looks to be getting info on there from the events. what else are you expecting?
[11:52] <gorilla> Agreed... publish all related events no matter how trivial it may seem.
[11:53] <head_victim> elky: there is no team information there, can we list the resources?
[11:53] <nisshh> and then we have people on twitter who could retweet this stuff
[11:53] <head_victim> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan using that as an example, without the photos and things
[11:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan using that as an example, without the photos and things
[11:54] <head_victim> whoops didn't mean that to link :/;
[11:54] <nisshh> haha
[11:54] <elky> head_victim, i don't know how.
[11:54] <nisshh> ok, so it seems no one is interested after crapping all over me, shall we end the meeting?
[11:54] <gorilla> nisshh: I was going to save that untill after the meeting :-D
[11:55] <sagaci_> how'd the meeting go
[11:55] <nisshh> gorilla, fair enough, maybe in a pm so i dont get attacked :)
[11:55] <MoLE_> seems a logical, sensible idead nisshh
[11:55] <head_victim> nisshh: it's a good idea, as co chairs would you be willing to help me add the meetings there monthly as a start?
[11:55] <nisshh> head_victim, sure, i cant do facebook, but i can do identica and diaspora :)
[11:56] <nisshh> by the way, who here is actually on facebook and willing to maintain our facebook page?
[11:56] <head_victim> nisshh: sounds good. Might be worth shooting some examples to the mailing list to get people interested
[11:56] <nisshh> that seems to be where a lot of people are these days
[11:56] <nisshh> head_victim, yeah, will do
[11:57] <gorilla> nisshh: I'm on facebook but not sure if I could run a page. I'm tapped out with a hackerspace web site atm.
[11:57] <nisshh> gorilla, well, basically we just need two or three people to do status updates and post about events on it really, nothing special
[11:57] <gorilla> nisshh: Ahhh. I could manage that :-)
[11:58] <nisshh> gorilla, awesome, im not sure who created the original facebook page for the loco though, are you able to find that out?
[11:59] <gorilla> nisshh: I'll have a dig around.
[12:00] <gorilla> nisshh: It was Melissa Draper. Not sure if she is still active in any capacity.
[12:00] <head_victim> gorilla: Melissa = elky
[12:00] <gorilla> there are 326 members.
[12:00] <gorilla> head_victim: Ahhh.
[12:00] <gorilla> Sorry elky
[12:01] <MoLE_> lol
[12:01] <elky> heh
[12:01] <nisshh> gorilla, cool
[12:01] <gorilla> MoLE_: I don't track real name to irc nick mapping very well.
[12:01] <nisshh> im not sure if elky is the only one who can change that page or whatever, i dont use facebook and never will
[12:01] <head_victim> [ACTION] Team to be more proactive about posting to social media to promote events and the team.
[12:01] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Team to be more proactive about posting to social media to promote events and the team.
[12:02] <MoLE_> gorilla, me either
[12:02] <head_victim> [ACTION] Co-chairs to make sure all meetings are posted to loco.ubuntu.com events pages.
[12:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Co-chairs to make sure all meetings are posted to loco.ubuntu.com events pages.
[12:02] <nisshh> gorilla, can you and elky work that out then? maybe elky give page rights to you or something?
[12:02] <elky> i didn't make the page afaik, so probably not me exclusively
[12:03] <nisshh> ok, so it sounds like its no longer updated?
[12:03] <nisshh> thought so
[12:03] <gorilla> elky: We can discusss this outside of the meeting and have a "play" with it.
[12:03] <elky> i don't think it was ever really closed?
[12:03] <nisshh> head_victim, i think end the meeting :)
[12:03] <gorilla> nisshh: the last event was the release part in April for sydney.
[12:04] <gorilla> party*
[12:04] <nisshh> gorilla, yeah, but if we make progress on some of our projects listed on the wiki we will have more to post/dent/tweet about
[12:04] <head_victim> Ok, before I end the meeting is there any other topics people want brought up quickly?
[12:04] <gorilla> nisshh: sure but in the meantime we can list future meetings.
[12:05] <nisshh> gorilla, yes, of course
[12:05] <jfer> I think that we should discuss further on the mailing list
[12:06] <nisshh> jfer, yeah, im sending mails off now
[12:06] <elky> head_victim, geekosophical.net/ubuntuau-bizcard.pdf
[12:07] <head_victim> elky: ok so it's agreed, I suck. That looks great!
[12:07] <head_victim> So endmeeting time?
[12:07] <gorilla> elky: awesome.
[12:07] <MoLE_> yes
[12:07] <dejai> Oh yes I stumbled onto the meeting by accident.
[12:07] <gorilla> head_victim: I have nothing more to say.
[12:08] <MoLE_> Have a great Christmas everyone.
[12:08] <MoLE_> Next meeting in the new year?
[12:08] <gorilla> dejai: don't be afraid to stumble back sometime soon.
[12:08] <elky> http://geekosophical.net/ubuntuau-bizcard.svg be the source
[12:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://geekosophical.net/ubuntuau-bizcard.svg be the source
[12:08] <elky> ohmy, it grabs links automatically now?
[12:09] <gorilla> elky: hehe
[12:09] <darkrose> if the link is at the beginning of the post
[12:09] <elky> the source will look stupid until you get the ubuntu fonts from font.ubuntu.com
[12:09] <head_victim> #endmeeting
[12:09] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:09.
[12:09] <head_victim> Ok no more accidental links :D
[12:09] <head_victim> Thank you everyone for coming and thank you all for contributing.
[12:09] <gorilla> Well done head_victim for chairing the meeting.
[12:10] <jfer> yes thanks.
[12:10] <jfer> I look forward to those mailing list discussions
[12:11] <head_victim> gorilla: a pleasure as always, good to see people turning up
[12:11] <elky>  hrm, actually, let me update that source & pdf
[12:11] <elky> you'll loose tasmania if you take that to be printed as is
[12:12] <sagaci> yeah sorry about that, ended up watching family guy and realised the meeting was halfway over when it finished
[12:12] <gorilla> elky: but tasmania isn't reall part of Australia :-P
[12:12] <elky> ssh, they haven't figured that out yet and still pay us tax
[12:12] <gorilla> sagaci: I wish that was logged ;-)
[12:12] <sagaci> gorilla: why
[12:13] <gorilla> sagaci: it could have been a classic quote :-)
[12:13] <sagaci> ahh ok
[12:13] <dejai> Meeting over everyone back to -chat!
[12:13] <gorilla> right.
[12:13] <head_victim> elky: when you're done can I copy or even link to it on the artwork page?
[12:13] <sagaci> ok, leaving serious channel now
[12:15] <elky> head_victim, here, take an archive geekosophical.net/ubuntuau-bizcard.tar.gz
[12:15] <elky> you should be able to upload files to the wiki
[12:16] <head_victim> elky: yep that's how I've been doing it
[12:16] <head_victim> I'm tempted to remove my poor attempt though so it doesn't look so bad beside yours
[12:18] <elky> hehe
[12:18] <elky> someone may prefer it
[12:19] <head_victim> Well I'll remove the infringing COF though, don't want to get in trouble
[12:19] <gorilla> I say leave it... It could be an inspiration for someone else.
[12:20] <head_victim> gorilla: ok, I'll leave it. but yeah just modify it, apparently the transparency on the circle of friends I have used as a background infringes trademark policy.
[12:21] <gorilla> head_victim: Ahhh. that's a problem then.
[12:21] <head_victim> Next meeting is January 11th :D
[12:22] <gorilla> elky: When's a good time to discuss facebook page.
[12:22] <gorilla> ?
[12:22] <elky> another evening before next wednesday
[12:22] <sagaci> gorilla: what better place than here, what better time than now?
[12:23] <gorilla> elky: okay.. what about friday evening?
[12:23] <elky> if i'm around. i'm often at the whim of the boss with the corporate credit card and a penchant for steak and wine
[12:23] <gorilla> sagaci: because it's nearly midnight here and I am coming off the tail end of some bug.
[12:23] <elky> it's a hard life, i know
[12:23] <elky> but someone has to do it.
[12:24] <gorilla> heh. Have a stake and whine for me also then :-)
[12:25] <sagaci> steak tried emulating and kerplunked
[12:25] <gorilla> elky: I have pm'ed you for further discussion, so it's out of this channel
[12:32] <head_victim> Well I have to trundle, thanks everyone for contributing and I look forward to seeing progression.
[12:33]  * gorilla salutes head_victim
[12:34] <head_victim> gorilla: good to see you volunteering as well ;)
[12:34] <head_victim> (wiki page update)
[12:35] <gorilla> head_victim: the wiki page update was the reason that i was quiet during the meeting.
[12:45] <darkrose> oh wow nisshh, could you have made that mailing list post sound any more like you're a bratty child upset 'coz he didn't get his way?
[12:48] <nisshh> darkrose, no, i was saying that i refuse to partake in any issues and i will no longer bring any issues up because its clear people dont want stuff fixed
[12:48] <nisshh> obviously no one is replying because you all agree i shouldnt
[12:49] <sagaci> eh, looked like i missed a decent meeting
[12:49] <darkrose> nisshh: it's not broken, therefore it won't get fixed
[12:49] <nisshh> darkrose, i dont care about myself in all of this, im doing it for the loco, but evidently everyone else just likes shitting on my face about issues that are important and need sorting out
[12:49] <nisshh> sagaci, you didnt miss anything dude :)
[17:00] <head_victim> elky: that really large version of the business card is probably a good poster idea actually btw. I might steal it for that (unless you want to make it even bigger? Thinking A3 or A2 size)
[23:16] <elky> head_victim, what poster size? that was an au/nz biz card canvas
[23:33] <head_victim> elky: from comments last night I thought one of the links you did was accidentally done on a larger size.
[23:36] <elky> no, the cards were susceptible to being ruined by printers need for bleed
[23:36] <head_victim> Ah sorry misunderstood then
[23:37] <head_victim> I was just looking at it full screen thinking it was quite an informative way of displaying team info, even at a large size


[11:12] <Olotila> I cannot change gpu driver
[11:12] <Olotila> there is x.org and proprietary drivers are grayed out
[11:13] <Olotila> hd 7970
[11:15] <Olotila> There is only "Continue using a manually installed driver"
[12:05] <lindol> hi all :)
[15:49] <Olotila> how do i sort files first by size and then by name?
[15:49] <Olotila> so that folders are uppermost
[21:54] <darkxst> Olotila, you probably need to force reinstall of the xorg/mesa drivers to wipe out your manually installed driver
[22:43] <lindol> hi all


[00:27] <wgrant> cjwatson, dobey: Archive:+index will show the token in the sources.list lines, but only once you've viewed the subscription from +archivesubscriptions at least once
[00:27] <wgrant> It's terribly awkward, but Archive:+index was never meant to be used by P3A consumers anyway
[00:35] <kiko> heh, weird
[16:24] <beluga> why can't I login to Launchpad anymore? last time was in Sep 2012 and now it seems something has changed.. it is asking for an email address, but it doesn't accept mine. I tried to reset the password, but it says my email address is not in the database
[16:40] <beluga> do I need to create a login.launchpad.net account and ask an admin to merge it with my launchpad account?
[16:41] <beluga> like in this case: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/200461
[16:54] <cjwatson> You'll need admin help in any case, so either create a temporary account so you can file an answers.launchpad.net ticket, or wait for the Australians to be around to diagnose ...
[16:57] <beluga> I created an account with the same username and it even showed my old activities.. I have sent a support request to the SSO support
[16:59] <beluga> so I guess it's not possible to do translations on launchpad wihout leaking my email address in the .po files?
[17:01] <beluga> I searched for my email address and was disappointed when I noticed it had leaked to the translations I had contributed to.. I would have created a throwaway account, if I had known that would happen
[17:04] <beluga> because of version control, I don't know if it's any use to ask the projects to remove my email from the .po files
[17:04] <FRITZ|FRITZ> hello, I was asked to add a tag to a bug report… except i don't see where to do that? do I add it as a comment?
[17:05] <FRITZ|FRITZ> agh never mind i think i found it....
[17:07] <maxb> I think it's unrealistic to do stuff in open source projects without exposing an email address to the world
[17:10] <maxb> beluga: You might want to create an answers.launchpad.net question as well, just to be on the safe side, the SSO and Launchpad teams seem to be very separate based on observing how previous interactions have gone
[21:53] <wgrant> cjwatson: if they can't even log into SSO then it's probably best to throw them at the SSO support form
[21:54] <cjwatson> noted


[03:38] <DoubleB> hello all
[03:44] <az7> hey hey
[03:47] <DoubleB> Anyone read more news about the patent pool against webm?
[04:26] <az7> haven't.. whats up?
[04:28] <DoubleB> oh nothing I just hope we the people get to keep it going