[00:10] <soto> Can anyone interpret this backtrace? http://www.pastebin.ca/755913
[00:12] <soto> I'm trying to debug a problem with nautilus. gdb keeps telling me that the program received SIGSEGV in gconf_client_remove_dir, but the process doesn't terminate, even after I detach.
[00:12] <soto> (keeps telling me that it received SIGSEGV whenever I try to 'continue')
[00:24] <persia> soto: Have you looked in /home/soto/nautilus-debug-log.txt ?
[00:26] <soto> persia: No such file
[00:26] <soto> What happens if a SIGSEGV signal handler seg faults?
[00:27] <persia> soto: You might check nautilus-debug-log.c, line 508 to see if 'xxxxx' is hardcoded.  It looks like there is an issue removing the file, but the error handler is crashing whilst trying to report the issue.
[00:28] <persia> soto: It's just a SIGSEGV.  It needs to either be trapped, or the code written defensively, so it cannot happen.
[00:28] <persia> (e.g. check to make sure that the filehandle is valid prior to attempting to write)
[00:29] <soto> persia: If the code was badly written would it infinite loop?
[00:30] <soto> 'xxxxx' is not hardcoded: It is a redacted user name.
[00:30] <persia> soto: I'm not sure what you mean.  One could conceivably write a recursive exception processor that was broken, and could loop, but recursive exception processing is rare.
[00:32] <persia> soto: I'd look either at nautilus-main.c:213 or nautilus-debug-log.c:508.  I suspect one of those lines arranges the circumstances that cause nautilis-debug-loc.c:446 to fail.
[00:32] <soto> persia: I'm trying to speculate as to the cause of a bug. In GDB, whenever I trying to 'continue' the process it SIGSEGVs, but the process does not terminate. So it seems to me that the program is handling SIGSEGV in some way that causes an infinite loop
[00:35] <persia> soto: Nautilius is a main-loop application.  It tries to do the same things over and over again each cycle (as I understand it).  As such, when you continue, it notices it is having some problem and tries to write to the debug log.  It segfaults writing to the log.  GDB halts execution.  You type 'continue'.  Nautilius notices it is having a problem, and tries to write to the debug log.  It segfaults writing to the log.  GDB halts execution...
[00:36] <soto> persia: Okay thans
[00:36] <soto> thanks*
[00:37] <persia> soto: If you can fix the problem writing to the debug log, the debug log ought to show you the problem that was happening removing the file.  At this point, you should be able to fix the thing that is bothering you :)
[00:39] <joejaxx> jdong: ping
[00:57] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: Hello :D
[00:58] <Hobbsee> hiya!
[00:59] <RAOF> Heya Hobbsee.
[00:59] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[00:59] <RAOF> I wish I could replace my students with automata.  I could quickly whip up a python script to answer these tests much better than they have :(
[01:00] <persia> RAOF: But could your python script also complain about the marking later :)
[01:01] <RAOF> No.  I don't see this as a downside :P
[01:01] <joejaxx> lool
[01:02] <RAOF> Plus, finite-state-machines are cool.
[01:03] <proppy> night
[02:05] <ajmitch> bddebian: getting the love going in #d-d again?
[02:12] <joejaxx> bryyce: ! :P
[02:12] <bryyce> hiya joejaxx
[02:12] <joejaxx> :)
[02:13] <joejaxx> bryyce: hey i just witnessed the blurry screen using the ati driver on gutsy
[02:13] <joejaxx> :P
[02:13] <bryyce> take a photo?
[02:13] <joejaxx> i can show you tomorrow
[02:14] <joejaxx> it is reproducable
[02:14] <bryyce> ok
[02:15] <joejaxx> w/in 314
[02:15] <joejaxx> bah
[02:16] <ajmitch> 314?
[02:16] <ajmitch> crazy
[02:19]  * persia thinks elkbuntu is expressing something sneakily, and sends well wishes
[02:19] <elkbirthday> :Þ
[02:19]  * elkbirthday hugs persia
[02:23] <bddebian> ajmitch: Heh, always :-)
[02:24] <ajmitch> elkbirthday: is it someone's birthday?
[02:31] <elkbirthday> ajmitch, i think it is. not a clue whose though
[02:34] <ajmitch> hm
[02:34] <ajmitch> quite puzzling
[02:38] <joejaxx> elkbirthday: hapy birthday :D
[02:38] <joejaxx> happy*
[02:38] <elkbirthday> joejaxx, thankies :) i wish i could be there in boston for it, but we cant win em all :)
[02:39] <joejaxx> elkbirthday: you are most welcome :)
[02:48] <ajmitch> haha
[02:48] <ajmitch> mneptok: what a way to show your love
[02:48]  * mneptok regreases his spanking hand and sidles ominously toward ajmitch
[03:07] <Fujitsu> /win/win 23
[03:07] <Fujitsu> Grr, not again.
[03:19] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: :P
[03:55] <pwnguin> is there a script to ubuntu-ize a package? ive been bringing things into my ppa by hand, but i imagine a script would do it closer to correctly than I do
[03:58] <Hobbsee> beyond dh_make?
[03:58] <pwnguin> i mean a debian sync
[04:00] <RAOF> You mean "sync a package from Debian into your PPA"+
[04:00] <RAOF> You mean "sync a package from Debian into your PPA"?
[04:00]  * RAOF sucks.
[04:01] <pwnguin> sure
[04:01] <RAOF> Isn't the only change needed s/unstable/hardy/ on the top changelog entry?
[04:02] <RAOF> That surely can't be onerous, or particularly difficult to script.
[04:03] <pwnguin> ive also been placing them in universe
[04:03] <RAOF> Ah.  Yes, of course.
[04:03] <pwnguin> but i havent really paid attention to how it "should" be done, so i donno what all the script might do ;)
[04:04] <RAOF> Hm.  You know that icedtea build I started in here some 3 or 4 days ago?
[04:04] <pwnguin> not done?
[04:04] <RAOF> Got it in one
[04:04] <joejaxx> LaserJock: !! :D
[04:04] <pwnguin> that has to be a pounce
[04:05] <joejaxx> pwnguin: ?lol
[04:06] <LaserJock> joejaxx: hi
[04:06] <LaserJock> persia: that is one awesome email
[04:06] <LaserJock> persia: but you should have sent it to ubuntu-devel as well
[04:07] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock
[04:07] <Fujitsu> RAOF, pwnguin: You no longer need to put PPA packages them in universe - ogre-model overrides as if everything were multiverse now.
[04:07] <Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
[04:08] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch and Fujitsu
[04:11] <persia> LaserJock: I agree that ubuntu-devel should do the same things, but I'm less convinced that ubuntu-devel needs immediate volunteers for the 5 activities on the bottom.  Also, there are some UDS sessions, likely focused on main, which should produce something interesting.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, excellent!
[04:11] <pwnguin> whats the point of ogre model then?
[04:11] <bddebian> persia: Nice e-mail :)
[04:13]  * ajmitch should probably volunteer for something
[04:13] <bddebian> ajmitch: Make me some not from source and FTBFS scripts.    Grab the subjects, and match against Sources.gz.  The deadline for having something working isn't until February, so you've some time to play.
[04:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, you should.
[04:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you speak!
[04:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, i type!
[04:16] <persia> Hobbsee: So which one do you want? :)
[04:16] <ajmitch> oh
[04:16] <Hobbsee> persia: none at all :P
[04:16]  * ajmitch goes back to his cave
[04:17]  * bddebian goes back to take more abuse from Debian
[04:17] <persia> ajmitch: Before you get there, how is the progress on the next revision of the RC buglist?
[04:17] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: Well, it allows the PPA to build against itself, etc.
[04:18] <LaserJock> persia: but that email is of interest to *all* developers
[04:18] <LaserJock> -devel is not just for Main
[04:18] <bddebian> It isn't?
[04:18] <LaserJock> no
[04:18] <ajmitch> persia: it's not progressing
[04:18] <LaserJock> mdz has said that over and over
[04:18] <LaserJock> -motu is supposed to be fore motu-specific stuff only
[04:19] <LaserJock> I think we should try to leverage main and Canonical resources as much as possible :-)
[04:19] <LaserJock> at least they have valuable input
[04:20] <persia> LaserJock: Hmm..  I guess I misunderstood.  I thought -devel was for main, and MOTU was for universe.  I'll be sending another (similar) email around DIF, and will definitely include ubuntu-devel for that missive.
[04:20] <LaserJock> yes, please do
[04:20] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Can you convince your colleagues that they want to run their magic problem- and outdated-checking scripts over the entire archive?
[04:20] <persia> LaserJock: Well, there was some effort to coordinate with DC resouces for Gutsy, but it didn't come to anything.  I was hoping that more community efforts would get us the tools: where they are run is a more soluable problem than that they should exist.
[04:21] <LaserJock> persia: also Debian people and potential contributors are probably more likely to read -devel
[04:21]  * ajmitch even had a completely separate implementation of mdt
[04:21] <Fujitsu> Bah, who has moderation rights over -motu ML? I sent using the wrong address again.
[04:21] <persia> LaserJock: Good points all.  I shan't so restrict the audience in the future.
[04:21] <ajmitch> its main flaw was that it didn't produce pretty looking webpages :)
[04:21] <LaserJock> persia: yes, but if Canonical's got handy scripts or knowledge we shouldn't waste it
[04:21] <persia> ajmitch: If you want to host your implementation instead of MDT, that'd likely be almost as good.
[04:21] <LaserJock> I find guys like cjwatson and pitti to be enormously helpful
[04:22] <LaserJock> I've got a bzr branch of mdt
[04:22] <LaserJock> I just don't have it hosted anywhere
[04:22] <ajmitch> persia: yeah, I have some spare space on a virtual server that I may push things onto
[04:22] <Fujitsu> I've had mdt running over {un,mult}iverse for about a year now, as I said in my email which is stuck in the moderation queue.
[04:22] <bddebian> heh
[04:22] <persia> LaserJock: Agreed.  I asked them about the ftp-master stuff for Gutsy, and was advised it was trivial to port, but required a local mirror.  I've pointed at the code, but I don't have the mirror.
[04:23] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: you should probably bribe someone to let the mail through
[04:23] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: MC.
[04:23] <persia> Fujitsu: publically?  That's excellent.  I'm sorry I missed it.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> i'd do it, but i've not been asked to
[04:23] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: MC?
[04:23] <Hobbsee> motu council
[04:23] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can you please let it through?
[04:23] <Fujitsu> What about them?
[04:23] <Hobbsee> [15:21] <Fujitsu> Bah, who has moderation rights over -motu ML? I sent using the wrong address again.
[04:23] <LaserJock> persia: right, so we need a list of specific things we need, as you've already got a great start on, and then get the word out to get people/resources
[04:23] <Hobbsee> as in, i'd help with the moderation, but i've not been asked to
[04:24] <Fujitsu> Oh.
[04:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: doesn't it give you a chance to cancel?
[04:24] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hm, true, forgot about that.
[04:24]  * Fujitsu does so.
[04:24] <LaserJock> that's what I do
[04:24] <persia> LaserJock: Right.  That's what the last section was about.  I figured that anyone who read the whole thing was interested, and would be likely to volunteer to contribute something.
[04:24] <LaserJock> hehe
[04:24] <LaserJock> I read the whole thing
[04:24] <bddebian> Ohh boswars looking pretty good..
[04:25] <ajmitch> hm, massive quoted email on -motu
[04:25] <persia> LaserJock: So you want one?  (B) is easy, if you have a local mirror.
[04:25] <persia> bddebian: You are familiar with Emily Post, no?
[04:26] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'd let it through, but I have to find the password first
[04:26] <bddebian> persia: Sounds familiar but I cannot place it
[04:26] <LaserJock> persia: hmm, I do have a local mirror of universe and main
[04:26] <persia> bddebian: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/
[04:27] <ajmitch> and I find that you already killed it...
[04:27] <ajmitch> oh well
[04:27] <LaserJock> persia: I might also be able to work on A) depending on what it's going to involve
[04:27]  * ajmitch wanders off home
[04:27]  * Hobbsee dumps a whole lot of rain on ajmitch
[04:27] <bddebian> persia: And which of those am I supposed to read?
[04:28] <persia> LaserJock: From what I can tell, LP has the information for each package.  I just can't find a URL that exposes it.  It's 100% LP coordination: to get LP to tell us not only what failures ever happened, but for which packages the last version FTBFS.
[04:29] <LaserJock> persia: right, I'll have a talk with kiko and see what we can come up with
[04:29] <persia> LaserJock: That'd be great.  Thanks.
[04:30] <LaserJock> seems like we need some web hosting :/
[04:30] <LaserJock> I can run lots of stuff, but I'm not sure I have bandwidth to maintain a frequently used list
[04:30] <persia> bddebian: I may not be able to count, but I think #16
[04:30] <persia> Anyone willing to volunteer to host LaserJock's output?
[04:31]  * Fujitsu can stick things in a few places, depending on how much processing they need.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> *drool*
[04:31] <Hobbsee> Lots of wireless drivers being merged: 3945/4965
[04:31] <Hobbsee> no l-u-m for .24, presumably!  yes!
[04:31] <Fujitsu> We have .24 now?
[04:31] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Hardy/KernelVersion
[04:31] <Hobbsee> no
[04:32] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:32] <Hobbsee> but we will for hardy,b ased on this stuff
[04:32] <Hobbsee> means kernel testing is nice - working wifi each time :)
[04:32] <Fujitsu> Ah, so that page actually exists now.
[04:32] <Hobbsee> Use Cases
[04:32] <Hobbsee> Booting your computer
[04:32] <Hobbsee> haha :)
[04:32] <LaserJock> hmm, can anybody explain to me what .la files are and why we aren't supposed to ship them?
[04:32] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[04:32] <Fujitsu> Because static libraries are evil.
[04:32] <bddebian> persia: Just tell me the issue please, I'm really not in the mood for reading through that drivel..
[04:33] <persia> LaserJock: We disapprove of static libraries.
[04:33] <Fujitsu> bddebian: It's probably that you quoted the entire mail.
[04:33] <persia> bddebian: long quoted post, short reply.  Poke meant humorously.  No worries.
[04:33] <pwnguin> static libaries are where you take the library code and bundle it with the executable in a way the system cant see
[04:34] <pwnguin> LaserJock: they're bad because you cant share static libraries among binaries
[04:34] <Fujitsu> And because you need to rebuild things for updates.
[04:34] <LaserJock> ok, so a .la is a static library?
[04:34] <Fujitsu> Security nightmare.
[04:34] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[04:34] <LaserJock> and a .so is a shared library?
[04:34] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[04:34] <persia> LaserJock: Well, it's linking information for a static library
[04:34] <pwnguin> LaserJock: so each gnome applet, if built statically, would combine into massive RAM requirements
[04:34]  * LaserJock shows his library ignorance
[04:35] <RAOF> .la isn't acutally a static library, though, right?  It's some libtool craziness pointing to shared libraries?
[04:35] <RAOF> Kinda like pkg-config files, but less safe?
[04:36] <persia> LaserJock: quick summary: static libraries are compiled inline.  Gain of about 1% in speed.  Requires local copy in RAM for each included library.  dynamic libraries are available separately in the system.  Only one copy goes to RAM.  security updates go to the library, and clients get the benfits.
[04:36] <slangasek> no, a .la is not a static library
[04:36] <slangasek> a .la is a libtool metadata file
[04:36] <persia> RAOF: Yes.
[04:36] <RAOF> Wooo!  I remember some libtool craziness!
[04:36] <keescook> slangasek beat me to it, but .a is the static lib
[04:36] <LaserJock> ah, k
[04:37] <slangasek> it happens that on glibc systems, this metadata is only *useful* with static libraries; but "static libraries are evil" isn't the reason they're bad
[04:37] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:37] <slangasek> the reason they're bad is because they have bad effects when doing *dynamic* linking
[04:37]  * RAOF *didn't* know that.
[04:37]  * persia sits attentively for library class
[04:37] <pwnguin> oh yea, combinining static and dynamic builds is a pita
[04:38] <LaserJock> ok
[04:38] <slangasek> persia: that's about all I intended to say at the moment, most people don't really care about the details of what they do wrong in the dynamic linking case :)
[04:38] <LaserJock> so are the static libraries included in the binary?
[04:38] <LaserJock> what happens if there are both static and dynamic "versions" of the library?
[04:38] <persia> slangasek: Do you happen to have a reference to the implications of .la files on dynamic linking.
[04:39] <RAOF> LaserJock: Depends on what the binary is built against.
[04:39] <pwnguin> LaserJock: you wouldnt normally use both..
[04:39] <RAOF> LaserJock: If the binary statically links to a library, then it just plain ignores any other version of the library lying around.
[04:39] <slangasek> LaserJock: when doing static linking, library code is copied into your binary, yes
[04:39]  * persia finds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_(computer_science)
[04:40] <RAOF> So you get to play the fun "libz has a security fix.  Let's rebuild everything that statically links against it" game.
[04:40] <slangasek> persia: afraid I don't; my best reference for it was a paper I wrote for DebConf 4, which I think later went up in smoke in a Debian server failure
[04:40] <LaserJock> bummer
[04:40] <persia> slangasek: Ah.  Sorry to hear that.  Thanks anyway.
[04:41] <LaserJock> anybody have a suggestion on figuring out if files are being installed at build time, but not installed into the .deb?
[04:41] <LaserJock> I have a package that has a .install which includes quite a bit
[04:41] <RAOF> dh_install --list-missing?
[04:41] <LaserJock> but I just built the package and it's missing a library
[04:41] <bddebian> persia: NP, thanks, sorry, it was a quick reply-to.. :)
[04:42] <bddebian> Anyway, gnight folks
[04:42] <LaserJock> and I'm wondering what else it's missing
[04:42] <persia> sleep well bddebian
[04:42] <bddebian> Thx
[04:42] <RAOF> LaserJock: Or even --fail-missing
[04:42] <LaserJock> RAOF: huh, that looks quite handy
[04:43] <RAOF> LaserJock: It turns out that debhelper is *full* of things that are quite handy when building packages :)
[04:44] <LaserJock> who would've thunk it?
[04:44] <RAOF> Crazy, I know.
[04:44] <pwnguin> RAOF: unless you want udev
[04:44] <pwnguin> then its just a gordian knot
[04:45] <pwnguin> "Q: How do you use dh_installudev?" "A: You don't."
[04:45] <persia> slangasek: http://debconf4.debconf.org/talks/dependency-hell/index.html ?
[04:45] <slangasek> persia: yes, that looks like it. :)
[04:46] <pwnguin> I need a psychic: what was the name of the package i installed to limit dput uploads?
[04:46]  * persia has seen useful application of dh_installudev
[04:46] <LaserJock> persia: is there a script for automatic lintian/linda available?
[04:46] <slangasek> persia: so the html isn't lost, just the OOo original, fair enough
[04:46] <persia> LaserJock: Fujitsu's already chasing that.
[04:46] <pwnguin> oh, slangasek == vorlon ....
[04:46] <LaserJock> persia: fine ... ;-)
[04:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's up to the u* binaries (going from the end, did sources first)
[04:47] <persia> Fujitsu: Does it have a URL yet?
[04:47] <Fujitsu> persia: Not at the moment.
[04:47] <slangasek> persia: also, seems to be a less-good reference than I remember, clearly I need to write some new papers on this subject :)
[04:47] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: is that just lintian?
[04:47] <RAOF> pwnguin: Thanks for reminding me.
[04:47] <slangasek> pwnguin: hmm. uh-oh? :)
[04:47] <persia> slangasek: Please.  That's an excellent set of slides, but it's a solved problem.  .la isn't even mentioned.
[04:47] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yeah, linda takes orders of magnitude longer to run.
[04:47] <RAOF> pwnguin: I still need to draft a "Is this our udev policy???" page :)
[04:47] <pwnguin> heh
[04:48] <slangasek> persia: er, "solved problem"?
[04:48] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: tell StevenK to make it faster ;-)
[04:48] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[04:48] <persia> slangasek: versioned dependencies, and proper library packaging.
[04:48] <pwnguin> In my case, i just wound up with a "just use sudo" jutsu
[04:48] <slangasek> persia: hmm, that's not really the point of the slides; see, I evidently also should've written a full paper instead of just doing slides and a talk :-)
[04:48] <RAOF> pwnguin: You can look at kvm (for which I really need to clean up my Debian merge, and install a Hardy system to test)
[04:49] <persia> slangasek: In other words, (I suspect as a result of your talk), it is very rare for an Ubuntu user to experience a segfault because of an ABI transition.
[04:49] <LaserJock> persia: what does "outdate tracking" mean?
[04:49]  * persia thought there was a full paper, done with OO Writer, which was eaten by the Debian server failure.
[04:50] <slangasek> persia: here's the 10 cent summary of the issue: existing tools cause everything near the top of the tree to directly link to everything below it in the tree.  This causes each library transition to be bigger than it should be
[04:50] <slangasek> persia: yeah, by "paper" I fear I meant my slides
[04:50] <slangasek> which I remembered as being more contentful
[04:50] <persia> slangasek: But with the originals lost, you didn't have to admit that :)
[04:50] <slangasek> heh
[04:50] <persia> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/hardy_outdate.txt
[04:51] <pwnguin> what about archive.org?
[04:51] <pwnguin> when was debconf4?
[04:51] <persia> pwnguin: http://debconf4.debconf.org/
[04:51] <slangasek> anyway. each lib transition becomes bigger, and therefore is spread out over a longer period in time (whether it's just rebuilds, or packages needing to be touched)
[04:52] <LaserJock> persia: I'm not sure what I'm looking at :-)
[04:52] <slangasek> this increases the chance that a binary is going to end up linked to multiple versions of the same lib for no good reason
[04:52] <slangasek> and multiple versions of the same lib loaded, without symbol versioning, == segfault
[04:52] <persia> LaserJock: Those are reports of packages where the source version in the archives doesn't match the binary version in the archives.  It usually indicates a FTBFS (or a truly badly written debian/control file)
[04:53] <Fujitsu> persia: Launchpad-derived FTBFS lists will also tell us that.
[04:53] <LaserJock> hmm, that's what I was thinking
[04:53] <slangasek> some key libraries now have symbol versioning (e.g., berkeley db or krb5).  Many others still don't.
[04:53] <persia> slangasek: Ah.  And the .la files exacerbate the issue by pointing to an "offical" version, rather than letting the dlopen version symbol checking do it's thing?
[04:53] <LaserJock> but I would've thought that a FTBFS or NBS list would tell us that
[04:54] <persia> Different ways of achieving the same results.  debcheck is better than dist-problems.  Something could be better than dist-outdated.  If we don't have something better, the existing tools are still useful.
[04:54] <slangasek> persia: they exacerbate the issue because when .la files are present, calling libtool at build-time gets you a linker command that has recursed through the dependencies of the libraries you *need*, and listed them all even when you're doing dynamic linking
[04:54] <slangasek> persia: which creates direct references to a particular soname of a library, from a binary that doesn't need it.
[04:54] <Fujitsu> slangasek: Ahhh.
[04:55] <persia> slangasek: Aha, so *all* the symbols are loaded,and *everything* needs a rebuild.  Thanks for the extended explanation.
[04:56] <slangasek> sure
[04:56] <LaserJock> so I recently saw an email where shipping the .la was needed
[04:56] <slangasek> right then, sleep now
[04:57] <RAOF> Yup, that KDE issue.
[04:57] <LaserJock> slangasek: good night, thanks for the explanation
[04:57] <slangasek> yes, it's possible to misdesign things so that .la files are needed at runtime, but that's a separate game :)
[04:57] <Fujitsu> Night slangasek.
[04:57] <slangasek> night all
[04:57] <RAOF> LaserJock: Because they statically link an old version of libtool into their tools :)
[04:57] <persia> 902 Not in Sid!  My, we've signed on for a bit of work.  That's 15 each.
[04:57] <persia> RAOF: Won't that go away with some sneaky plan for KDE4?
[04:58] <LaserJock> persia: that's packages only in Ubuntu?
[04:58] <Fujitsu> persia: We haven't processed removals yet.
[04:58] <RAOF> persia: I believe they'll update their internal libtool, yes :P
[04:58] <persia> Fujitsu: Removed from Sid: 0 packages
[04:58] <persia> RAOF: And keep it interna;?  Madness.
[04:58] <Fujitsu> persia: Well, the removals detection isn't ideal yet, so I removed the check... I should probably remove that section from the page.
[04:58] <persia> LaserJock: Well, the packages might be somewhere else, but they're not in Debian.
[04:59] <Fujitsu> Or steal a Debian removals processor from elsewhere.
[04:59] <RAOF> persia: Maybe they're following the ffmpeg development plan.
[04:59] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  That makes me less worried.  If I hadn't seed "Removed from Sid: 0", the 902 wouldn't be so bad.
[05:00]  * Fujitsu notes the top of the removals.py
[05:00] <Fujitsu> # TODO: We should ensure that it hasn't been removed from experimental
[05:00] <LaserJock> RAOF: dh_install --list-missing is awesome ;-)
[05:00] <RAOF> LaserJock: *Yes*
[05:07] <ajmitch> so how many of the tasks are left to pick up now?
[05:08] <imbrandon> holy hell, i must have mucked up my regex for subscribing to wiki pages, i am getting ALL changes now , hrm
[05:09] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Haha.
[05:09] <ion_> :-)
[05:09] <Fujitsu> ajmitch is subscribed to all, I think.
[05:09]  * ion_ is brave (or reckless?) and upgrades to hardy.
[05:09] <imbrandon> heh
[05:09] <Fujitsu> ion_: I upgraded one of my machines days ago!
[05:09] <ajmitch> disk space is cheap
[05:09] <persia> ajmitch: Let's see.  Laserjock has A and E.  Fujitsu has D (and new F: lintian).  B and C need volunteers, although the value of B has been questioned.
[05:09] <imbrandon> btw moins all
[05:09]  * Fujitsu prods edge.
[05:09] <ajmitch> persia: cool, so I'm not needed
[05:09]  * Fujitsu prods edge harder.
[05:09] <imbrandon> ajmitch, specialy when its gmails diskspace
[05:10] <persia> ajmitch: Are you shure you don't want C?
[05:10] <Fujitsu> C is piuparts?
[05:10] <ajmitch> persia: running piuparts over universe would require far more bandwidth than I have
[05:10] <imbrandon> we diving up work ?
[05:10] <persia> ajmitch: Ah.  That's be "Yes, you're sure" then :)
[05:10] <Fujitsu> It would take a long time for one person, wouldn't it?
[05:10] <persia> imbrandon: Yep.
[05:11] <persia> Fujitsu: About a week.
[05:11] <imbrandon> whats left?
[05:11] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[05:11] <ajmitch> I have the hardware to do it, but not the bandwidth
[05:11] <persia> imbrandon: porting ftp-master scripts for universe, and hosting the results (perhaps not useful), and running piuparts at DIF, FF, and BF.
[05:11] <ajmitch> piuparts should be coordinated with the QA team anyway
[05:11] <ajmitch> especially people like liw
[05:12] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: I'm sure they'll restrict themselves to main.
[05:12] <persia> ajmitch: Which QA team?
[05:12] <imbrandon> hrm and port the ftp-master scripts from what to what ?
[05:12] <Fujitsu> persia: Canonical's, probably.
[05:12] <LaserJock> persia: I have E?
[05:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you do now
[05:12] <persia> imbrandon: generated hardy-universe-problems.txt and hardy-universe-outadated.txt
[05:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's part of the LP business.
[05:13] <LaserJock> oh
[05:13] <Fujitsu> They have that information, but we can't get it out in bulk at the moment.
[05:13] <persia> LaserJock: Do you not?  You volunteered to go talk to LP after Fujitsu pointed out that A & E were essentially the same from an LP POV
[05:13] <LaserJock> persia: right, I just didn't connect that he was talking about E
[05:13] <imbrandon> ahh ok, tell me where to get the originals , i can do that
[05:14] <persia> imbrandon: http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/update_out_code/
[05:14] <Fujitsu> persia: Porting that doesn't look trivial.
[05:14] <imbrandon> k
[05:14] <Fujitsu> Canonical has already ported it, presumably, so...
[05:14] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea lets hold out breath :)
[05:14] <persia> imbrandon: If porting isn't easy, ping pitti or cjwatson: there's already a main port running in the DC.
[05:14] <imbrandon> our*
[05:15] <persia> imbrandon: Also, you will need a local mirror to run against :)
[05:15] <imbrandon> persia, ok, umm i talk to pitti semi often about stuff like this, i might just see if we can get something opened up
[05:15] <persia> imbrandon: Great.  Thanks.
[05:15] <Fujitsu> persia: universe MDT page updated with removals.
[05:15] <imbrandon> persia, yea i have had a local mirror for a few years now, 1.5 or 2
[05:15]  * persia seeks three people who are willing to donate a week of processor time and have a local mirror
[05:15] <persia> Fujitsu: Thank you.
[05:15] <Fujitsu> It should be fairly reliable, but there might be a couple of false-positives.
[05:16] <imbrandon> man i wish i had unlimited $$ , lol, would make hobbies much easier
[05:16] <persia> Only 638 Not in Sid.  That's a little more manageable.
[05:17] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[05:17] <imbrandon> why couldent i have founded thawt :P
[05:17] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Haha.
[05:18]  * persia reports all the volunteers to the mailing list.
[05:18] <Fujitsu> persia: Thanks.
[05:19]  * ajmitch volunteers Hobbsee
[05:19] <Hobbsee> for what?
[05:19] <ajmitch> for QA tasks
[05:19] <persia> Hobbsee: piuparts
[05:19] <Hobbsee> i dont have a local mirror
[05:19] <ajmitch> I'm sure you have access to infinite bandwidth in .au
[05:19] <Hobbsee> but StevenK does.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> so try him
[05:19]  * Fujitsu kicks LP.
[05:19]  * persia is suspicious of bandwidth in .au
[05:20] <Hobbsee> DC should be able to run it, anyway
[05:20] <Fujitsu> persia: What bandwidth?
[05:20] <ajmitch> persia: it's a myth
[05:20] <Hobbsee> pitti will probably put it in for us.
[05:20] <ajmitch> we can hope so
[05:20]  * persia volunteers Hobbsee to volunteer pitti
[05:20] <ajmitch> some people doubt that canonical would do such a thing for us
[05:20] <Hobbsee> ok
[05:20] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: depends which parts.
[05:21] <persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.
[05:21] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: in reference to piuparts & all
[05:22] <persia> Well, oiuoarts & archive rebuilds are the most painful part.
[05:22] <Fujitsu> Oh, I suppose the Canonical world will be sleeping due to being in Boston. No LP for us, then.
[05:22] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: true.  depends who gets sweet talked into doing it, and how.
[05:23] <ajmitch> you can sweet talk better than I
[05:24]  * Fujitsu sweet talks Hobbsee into sweet talking whoever needs to be sweet talked.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:25] <ajmitch> good luck, I heard she bites
[05:25]  * Hobbsee bites ajmitch
[05:25] <ajmitch> :(
[05:26]  * Hobbsee hugs ajmitch
[05:27] <ajmitch> :)
[05:32]  * persia cheers ajmitch, LaserJock, imbrandon, and Fujitsu for fixing QA
[05:33]  * Hobbsee cheers at doing nothing
[05:33] <imbrandon> i dunno bout fixing but heh
[05:33] <ajmitch> persia: what am I being cheered for?
[05:33] <persia> ajmitch: Maintaining the RC Buglist.
[05:33] <ajmitch> oh right
[05:36] <Fujitsu> persia: Thanks for trying to get all this together.
[05:49]  * persia runs off for a while
[06:01] <LaserJock> can I specify a variable directory to install into in a .install file
[06:01] <LaserJock> I need to install to /usr/lib/<library>/<version>/
[06:02] <highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
[06:03] <imbrandon> LaserJock, have the rules generate the .install file from a <package>.install.in with marcos ? hehe justa  idea
[06:04] <LaserJock> imbrandon: ewwww
[06:04] <LaserJock> the thing is I don't know the <version> until build time
[06:04] <LaserJock> I'm dropping a plugin into the lib of another package
[06:05] <nxvl> finally i have got gmail's imap support
[06:05] <nxvl> :D
[06:05] <imbrandon> nxvl, yea i was happy to get it too
[06:05] <imbrandon> finaly
[06:05] <nxvl> imbrandon: i was real tired of waiting to come home to check my mail
[06:06] <nxvl> now i can do it also at work :D
[06:06] <nxvl> with the same configuration
[06:06] <highvoltage> nxvl: yay! mine is working too!
[06:06] <nxvl> it's really great
[06:06] <LaserJock> for me the webmail is still a lot faster though
[06:07] <imbrandon> imap seems pretty speedy here, i still havent got mutt the way i like it , but thatrs neither here nor there
[06:07] <nxvl> LaserJock: i have nothing against webmail, despide the fact that you can't sign your mails :D
[06:07] <imbrandon> yea thats my main thing for using imap, to sign the mail
[06:08] <LaserJock> nxvl: well, I never sign email anyway
[06:08] <LaserJock> I think perhaps the only time I've ever signed an email was when I did a keysigning at UDS Paris
[06:08] <LaserJock> oh, and to get a REVU account I did
[06:09] <nxvl> i don't sand any email that is't urgent without signing it
[06:09] <LaserJock> I haven't figured out the point
[06:12] <nxvl> meh, xchat is't usefull for small resolution, back to irssi
[06:13] <Fujitsu> XChat isn't useful full-stop...
[06:13] <LaserJock> I like xchat
[06:13]  * RAOF still hasn't got gmail imap :(
[06:13] <imbrandon> ugh , ok i'm stuck in a loop http://paste.ubuntu.com/1536/ any help
[06:14]  * Fujitsu doesn't have GMail IMAP either.
[06:14] <Fujitsu> But I don't have a GMail account, so that might do itt.
[06:15] <imbrandon> wow there is someone on the planet without gmail ? heh
[06:15] <RAOF> LaserJock: Ah.  ugh.  I don't suppose you can just install /usr/lib/library/*?
[06:15] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You could manually hack the postinst.
[06:16] <Fujitsu> Just return 0 at the top, and then reinstall the package afterwards to make sure things are OK.
[06:16] <LaserJock> RAOF: well, I don't know if that'd work for the target is the problem
[06:16] <LaserJock> imbrandon: only weird people  ;-)
[06:16] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hrm true
[06:16] <RAOF> Ah, for the target.  Why not let dh_install guess the target?
[06:17] <RAOF> It should guess correctly, I believe.  As long as upstream's build system puts the lib in the right place.
[06:17] <LaserJock> well, that's the funky part
[06:17] <imbrandon> hrm here is the temp postinst kept ?
[06:17] <RAOF> Oh.  Upstream doesn't work?
[06:17] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: /var/lib/dpkg/info/somepackage.postinst
[06:18] <RAOF> LaserJock: That makes it somewhat more annoying.
[06:18] <LaserJock> all the .install is doing for the most part is moving files form debian/tmp/ into debian/<packagename>
[06:18] <LaserJock> RAOF: no, upstream is fine
[06:18] <RAOF> Ok.  This sounds like nice, normal dh_install usage so far... :)
[06:19] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Is this the ex-Dapper box, or did you break it some other way?
[06:19] <imbrandon> the ex-dapper
[06:20] <imbrandon> still fiddling with upgrading it
[06:20] <LaserJock> ok, but in rules DESTDIR is debian/tmp/
[06:20] <LaserJock> why wouldn't it just be debian/<packagename>/
[06:20] <LaserJock> and I would do away with most of .install
[06:21] <RAOF> LaserJock: The package isn't splitting it up into multiple binaries?
[06:21] <LaserJock> nope
[06:21] <RAOF> IE: why is it using dh_install in the first place?
[06:21] <LaserJock> it's a single binary
[06:22] <LaserJock> but the packaging is as if there were multiple
[06:22] <RAOF> Is it missing lots of files in the binary? (Ie: is it using dh_install to install only necessary stuff, rather than removing unnecessary stuff?)
[06:22] <LaserJock> I wonder if that's just for future's sake in case it needed to be split or what
[06:22] <LaserJock> it's using dh_install to install everything
[06:22] <RAOF> Sounds like a needlessly complicated package, really.  It's not hard to split in future.
[06:23] <RAOF> What package is this?
[06:23] <LaserJock> which gave me grief because upstream added new .so files and they didn't make it into the package because of the .install
[06:23] <LaserJock> gchempaint
[06:23] <imbrandon> dh_install --list-missing :P
[06:24] <RAOF> imbrandon: Or DESTDIR=debian/packagename/, and just not use dh_install
[06:24] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, that's how I found out all that was missing
[06:26] <LaserJock> RAOF: this is the current .install http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42793/
[06:26] <imbrandon> LaserJock, FYI you know there is a new paste.ubuntu.com that uses the same script that seveas made for -nl.org :P
[06:27] <LaserJock> ah, awesome
[06:27] <LaserJock> I always have to google for the URL
[06:27] <LaserJock> drives me nuts
[06:27] <imbrandon> heh
[06:28] <RAOF> LaserJock: Why don't you just use DESTDIR=debian/<packagename>?  It doesn't look like you need dh_install for anything but the last 2 lines.
[06:28] <LaserJock> RAOF: that's what I thought
[06:28] <RAOF> Then, presumably, submit the patch to the Debian maintainer?
[06:29] <LaserJock> is there anything like a remove file?
[06:29] <LaserJock> RAOF: well, I kinda am one of the Debian maintainers
[06:29] <RAOF> Oh, even better :)
[06:29] <LaserJock> so I'll make sure to submit a patch ;-)
[06:29] <LaserJock> I want to get rid of these .la files
[06:29]  * imbrandon watches LaserJock email himself
[06:29] <RAOF> LaserJock: You mean something like dh_remove?
[06:30] <LaserJock> "Oh yeah, well you're the dumbest maintainer I've ever seen"
[06:30] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, good thing is i'll probably get the update finished tonight, bad thing is its taken ME 3 days to accomplish
[06:30] <RAOF> LaserJock: I think you have to just do a rm on them in the rules.
[06:31]  * LaserJock starts bug-flaming himself in BTS
[06:31] <imbrandon> lol
[06:32] <imbrandon> man i'm sooo getting tired of unresponsive upstream and PERL
[06:32]  * imbrandon ponder making a apt-mirror_ng
[06:34] <pwnguin> so im thinking about making a silly package
[06:35] <pwnguin> for irssi-notify
[06:35] <imbrandon> to make libnotify via ssh easy ? hehe
[06:36]  * LaserJock ponders filing removal requests for silly packages
[06:36] <pwnguin> basically, it uses libnotify and ssh to pop up locally on highlight
[06:37] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea i think we're gonna have to start upgrade testing NOW , i cant count how many times i've seen "dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of"
[06:37] <imbrandon> in the last 2 days
[06:37] <LaserJock> what's a good way to debug why an app can't find a shared library that I know exists?
[06:37] <RAOF> ldd?
[06:38] <RAOF> Is it a fun arch-incompatibility problem (32bit vs 64bit?)
[06:39] <LaserJock> no
[06:39] <LaserJock>         libgcpcanvas-0.8.4.so => not found
[06:40] <RAOF> Is libgcp* in LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
[06:40] <LaserJock> that .so is in /usr/lib/gchempaint/
[06:40] <RAOF> So, it's not.
[06:41] <RAOF> So, options include a LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrapper (favoured by users of gecko, for example).
[06:41] <RAOF> RPATH, favoured by heavy users of crack that gets bugs filed against it.
[06:41] <RAOF> And... um... hacking the source to get it to load from a different place.
[06:42] <LaserJock> why can't if find it where it is?
[06:42] <LaserJock> *it
[06:42] <LaserJock> seems rather odd
[06:42] <RAOF> Because it's asking the dynamic loader to find it, and /usr/lib/gchempaint isn't in ld.so.conf.
[06:43] <RAOF> Oh, the other option is to add a file to /etc/ld.so.conf.d to special-
[06:43] <LaserJock> I guess I was assuming anything in /usr/lib/ would be
[06:43] <RAOF> case the loader's path for that binary.
[06:43] <RAOF> LaserJock: Anything in /usr/lib, yes.  Not recursive.
[06:44] <RAOF> Private libraries are a pain in the arse.
[06:44] <LaserJock> for goodness sakes
[06:44] <RAOF> Actually, _why_ is that library private?
[06:44] <LaserJock> heck if I know
[06:44] <LaserJock> that's just where it ends up
[06:44] <imbrandon> heh
[06:45] <Epox_Ardere_> anyone install iwlwifi drivers yet
[06:45] <pwnguin> i have
[06:45] <RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: Yeah, I've been using them for ages.
[06:45] <Epox_Ardere_> sweet finally someone talking back to me
[06:45] <pwnguin> its unfortunate that nobody has really talked more about them
[06:45] <pwnguin> on planet or UWN
[06:46] <RAOF> Well, they only kinda work, really.
[06:46] <LaserJock> what are they?
[06:46] <RAOF> Actually open intel wireless drivers.
[06:46] <Epox_Ardere_> maybe i'm just an idiot but does 7.10 have the hotplug firmware agent
[06:46] <RAOF> Using the shiny new linux wireless stack.
[06:46] <LaserJock> RAOF: is there any reason why I can't drop the .so into /usr/lib/ >
[06:47] <pwnguin> its a bit sad that restricted driver manager suggests ipw when iwl is installed and working
[06:47] <RAOF> LaserJock: No.  Although you'd then want to split it off into a library package, and you'd need to do all the funky library versioning stuff.
[06:47] <Epox_Ardere_> really?
[06:47] <RAOF> pwnguin: Eh, ipw works better than iwl for me.  For example, iwl doesn't survive a suspend.
[06:47] <LaserJock> RAOF: oh, no thanks ;-)
[06:48] <pwnguin> RAOF: well, in my case, suspend is already broke
[06:48] <RAOF> LaserJock: So, *that* would be why you can't put it in /usr/lib :)
[06:48] <Epox_Ardere_> i just would like to know if the iwl drivers allow for packet injection in aireplay-ng
[06:48] <LaserJock> RAOF: now I know why I like python packaging ;-)
[06:49] <RAOF> pwnguin: If I configure compiz just right, then my laptop doesn't die on resume-from-suspend (thank you nvidia, your drivers almost fail to suck)
[06:49] <RAOF> LaserJock: Heh.  Until it grows a gtkmozembed dependency (frikkin miro)
[06:50] <RAOF> (On the other hand, the new nvidia drivers *do* leak like a colander)
[06:50] <LaserJock> man, you'd think it wouldn't be such a pain when the thing builds from tarball so easily
[06:50] <RAOF> Where does it normally install that lib to?
[06:51] <Epox_Ardere_> anyone know if the iwl drivers allow for packet injection in aireplay-ng
[06:51] <Epox_Ardere_> i know that the ipwraw drivers were supposed to be able to do this
[06:51] <RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: You're asking in the wrong place :)
[06:51] <RAOF> Where would be the *right* place?  Hm.
[06:52] <Epox_Ardere_> not quite sure
[06:52] <LaserJock> RAOF: good question, I think in /usr/local/lib/gchempaint/
[06:52] <RAOF> You know, the iwl website *might* point you in the right direction :)
[06:52] <LaserJock> but I think there's some rpath stuff involved
[06:52] <imbrandon> Epox_Ardere_, probably bets to just try it
[06:52] <LaserJock> which was stripped out in the Debian packaging
[06:52] <imbrandon> best*
[06:52] <RAOF> LaserJock: Ah, yay rpath.  Yeah.
[06:53] <Epox_Ardere_> i tried following their instructions and just ran into problems
[06:53] <Epox_Ardere_> i'm sure i'm doing something wrong
[06:53] <LaserJock> ok, well, I'm 2 hrs overdue for bed time
[06:53] <RAOF> LaserJock: So, LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrapper, or drop a config file into /etc/ld.so.conf.d
[06:53] <Epox_Ardere_> kinda new to this whole compile your own stuff
[06:54] <LaserJock> RAOF: so that's just a wrapper script with export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=<blah> <binary> ?
[06:54] <imbrandon> but then you can do neat things like crack wireless WEP networks *rolls eyes* hehe
[06:54] <RAOF> LaserJock: Yup.
[06:55] <RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: Or you could use the drivers in linux-ubuntu-modules, already built for your enjoyment.
[06:55] <LaserJock> RAOF: ok, well I'll have a talk with the other maintainers
[06:55] <imbrandon> RAOF, only on gutsy
[06:55] <LaserJock> this packaging is a bit ... old
[06:55] <RAOF> imbrandon: I always forget that some people don't run ubuntu+1 :)
[06:56] <imbrandon> :P
[06:56] <Epox_Ardere_> RAOF i'm not quite following
[06:56] <LaserJock> what? I thought everybody was running Hardy
[06:56] <imbrandon> Epox_Ardere_, the iwl drivers are in linux-ubuntu-modules already in ubuntu, no need to compile your self
[06:56] <imbrandon> is what he ment
[06:57] <Epox_Ardere_> how would i go about loading them instead of the restricted drivers
[06:57] <RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: You'd put ipw3945 into the /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist file, and add iwl3945 to /etc/modules
[06:58] <RAOF> Epox_Ardere_: And be on Gutsy, and have linux-generic (or linux-rt) installed.
[06:58] <imbrandon> and lum
[06:58] <RAOF> imbrandon: That's a dependency of linux-generic, right?
[06:58]  * RAOF never recommends anything but the metapackage.
[06:58] <imbrandon> RAOF, no sure , i'm just now figuring out the new system
[06:59] <Epox_Ardere_> is there a way that I could just disable as in # modprobe -r ipw3945
[07:00] <Epox_Ardere_> and then load as in # modprobe iwl3945
[07:00] <imbrandon> Epox_Ardere_, sure if you do that at every boot, and this is drifting off into support :)
[07:00] <Epox_Ardere_> sorry
[07:01] <imbrandon> np, just stating it, soemtimes MOTU and support overlap a bit :P
[07:01] <imbrandon> specialy when its semi slow in here , like now
[07:04] <pwnguin> people run hardy?
[07:05] <ion_> I upgrade a while ago.
[07:05] <pwnguin> its been open for like a week, i think.
[07:05] <Hobbsee> i'm thinking about it.
[07:06] <pwnguin> so is there some website i can look at to monitor the sync process?
[07:06] <Hobbsee> oh, only 11K builds to go now
[07:06] <Hobbsee> down from 13K
[07:07] <RAOF> pwnguin: You can watch the build queue on launchpad.
[07:07] <pwnguin> well, i was thinking for a given package
[07:07] <RAOF> You can search for it in the build queue? :)
[07:08] <RAOF> And for your first question: yes, of course - I'm going to install tonight.  How else can you build Hardy packages?
[07:08] <RAOF> s/build/test/
[07:08] <imbrandon> hardy chroot/pbuilder
[07:08] <RAOF> Ok.  How can I test my hardy kvm merge :P
[07:09] <imbrandon> qemu/vbox
[07:09] <imbrandon> heh test the new kvm with the old kvm
[07:09] <RAOF> But neither of them expose the VT extensions :P
[07:10] <RAOF> It's one of the few packages you actually have to test on a real, on-the-metal install.
[07:10] <imbrandon> vbox does iirc
[07:10] <RAOF> Really??
[07:10] <RAOF> I find that somewhat unlikely.  But maybe.  I may check that out.
[07:11] <imbrandon> err s/exposes/uses/g gah
[07:11] <RAOF> Heh, _yes_
[07:11] <RAOF> Anyway, homing time :)
[07:20] <imbrandon> hrm looks like socal / san fran / san jose got an 5.5+ earthquake
[07:22] <ajmitch> fairly small
[07:24] <imbrandon> ahahahh gotta LOVE digg quote : "FOX news has issued a statement that the recent quake may be connected to Al Queda....."
[07:25] <imbrandon> omg i'm gonna pee myself
[07:25] <Fujitsu> O_o
[07:27] <elkbirthday> please tell me you're joking...
[07:27] <imbrandon> it was a digg comment so i'd assume its a joke, a good one
[07:27] <Fujitsu> Ah, good.
[07:28] <imbrandon> http://digg.com/world_news/Earthquake_in_San_Francisco?t=10235007#c10235007
[07:28] <imbrandon> ^^ just that comment showing
[07:28] <pwnguin> what else is new
[07:28] <pwnguin> california burns and vibrates all the time
[07:29] <imbrandon> pwnguin, considering my wife wanted to move to mt view, then she seen all the news of fires, and now this, i bet she changes her mind
[07:30] <pwnguin> mt view?
[07:30] <pwnguin> why?
[07:30] <imbrandon> mountain view
[07:30] <pwnguin> yea -- i believe google has a data center up there
[07:30] <imbrandon> dunno I went for a visit / job interview and she went with me and liked it
[07:31] <imbrandon> yea google hq is there
[07:32] <imbrandon> she's never lived anywhere but KC so she will like anywhere new LOL
[07:32] <pwnguin> kc's quite nice though, if you dont mind the snow
[07:33] <pwnguin> if you do, theres always texas, but well... it's texas
[07:33] <imbrandon> yea i love it in the summer, i hate it in the winter
[07:33] <imbrandon> i personaly like mountain view and nashville , i lived in nashville a few years, it was quite nice
[07:34] <imbrandon> tx was ok, but the job market where in TX i would live sucks
[07:38] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:48] <zul_> mountain view is nowhere near the firess though
[07:55] <pwnguin> well, it is now ;)
[07:55] <Fujitsu> I presume we're going to want to remove packages like bkp (hasn't been uploaded since hoary, was never in Debian, and has next to no users) in the near future, but where do we stop the Great Purge?
[07:56] <imbrandon> zul_, try to explain that to a blonde that has never been to Califorina or left KC , heheh ( did i just say that out loud )
[07:56] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, is it far out of date with upstream, if not i dont see a point in removing it
[07:57] <imbrandon> some things dont release every cycle or even ever year
[07:58] <zul_> imbrandon: heh, my wife is a blonde although she does her hair, the earthquake would have me worried though
[07:59] <imbrandon> its always something though, FL / TX huricanes , Cali , fires / quakes, KC / Midwest Tornado , everywhere else COLD !
[08:00] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: It looks like bkp was pulled from upstream's repo, and there are new versions there.
[08:02] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, got a way to generate that list ?
[08:02] <imbrandon> automagicly that is
[08:02] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: There's a list of packages in Ubuntu, but not Debian, and that haven't been removed from Debian recently, on my MDT page.
[08:03] <Fujitsu> It's not easy to extract the last release it was uploaded to, though. Hopefully LaserJock will get something from the LP guys for that, as we need it for other stuff.
[08:16] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, getting closer "0 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 156 not upgraded."
[08:16] <imbrandon> heh
[08:17] <zul_> imbrandon: the place where I lived when I was a kid, if there was ever going to be a major earthquake a large chunk of the city would go into the ocean
[08:18] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You fixed the kernel issue?
[08:18] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea
[08:18] <Fujitsu> How much breakage has there been so far?
[08:18] <imbrandon> i just removed the postinst and then installed mktemp then reinstall initiramfs-tools
[08:19] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, 3 days worth, just aobut everything that could break has
[08:19] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[08:19] <imbrandon> X , kernel, python, upstart
[08:19] <zul> imbrandon: thats why you dont do that ;)
[08:19] <imbrandon> luckly i havent rebooted the machine once yet though , i doubt it would boot in the state its in now
[08:19] <Fujitsu> upstart and python are two nasty migrations.
[08:20] <Fujitsu> Convenient that they were a release after the lTS.
[08:20] <imbrandon> X seems to be too, not sure why yet
[08:20] <imbrandon> i basicly had to remove all X and reinstall it
[08:20] <zul> imbrandon: whats wrong with the kernel stuff?
[08:21] <imbrandon> it was trying to install with mktemp removed so the postinst died
[08:21] <imbrandon> in a loop so i couldent install mktemp
[08:21] <zul> ah
[08:21] <imbrandon> without hacking the po0stinst
[08:22] <imbrandon> and i cant count how many packages contain files in other packages but dont Replaces: them
[08:22] <imbrandon> pita
[08:22] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: The conflicts/replaces checker lists those - we'll have to go through that at some point.
[08:22] <imbrandon> yea, i'm guessing there will be sh*tloads of them
[08:22] <persia> Fujitsu: Which conflicts/replces checker?
[08:23] <Fujitsu> persia: life*less runs it, IIRC, but I forget where.
[08:24] <persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  I'll ask next time I see the nick.
[08:24] <Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConflictsReplacesChecker
[08:24] <Fujitsu> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/possible-conflicts/
[08:26] <imbrandon> whoop , kiddo up with a bad dream, back in a few minutes
[08:26] <persia> Hrm.  The interface is missing, and it seems like it's being planned as a upload-recipient tool.  Still, good data - worth checking when touching a package.
[08:37] <huats> morning all
[08:37] <imbrandon> re
[08:50] <imbrandon> wow , wine + qemu-i386 + ppc arch howto, nice crack there
[09:12] <zul> imbrandon: icky
[09:14] <imbrandon> what i dont understand is adobe released flash9 for solaris on a sparc and solaris on a x86 both , and linux on a x86 but not linux on a PPC
[09:14] <imbrandon> wouldent you think the linux ppc > solaris on a sparc needing flash ?
[09:14] <zul> imbrandon: i know a guy at adobe wanna me to ask or was it rhetroical? ;)
[09:15] <imbrandon> well it was rhetroical untill you said that ;)
[09:15] <imbrandon> sure ask if you rember
[09:17] <imbrandon> man i'm thinking etch to gutsy is easier than dapper to gutsy
[09:17] <imbrandon> man-o-man what mess did we get into for this LTS
[09:17] <highvoltage> imbrandon: but you're not supposed to go from dapper to gutsy!
[09:18] <imbrandon> highvoltage, well your supose to go from dapper to hardy , and gutsy == installable hardy atm
[09:18] <imbrandon> upgrade testing has already begun ( un-intentionaly )
[09:19] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You're not meant to dist-upgrade.
[09:20] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, you know how many will ? i'd say about 80% or more from LTS to LTS
[09:20] <imbrandon> and we SHOUDL be able to, its ludacris why we cant
[09:20] <imbrandon> SHOULD*
[09:21] <imbrandon> if i can dist-upgrade from sarge to etch, there is no reason we cant do the same, nor shouldent do the same
[09:22] <imbrandon> hell some sarge installs even went from 2.4 kernel to 2.6 in etch, but transition among many others
[09:22] <highvoltage> imbrandon: yes, but specialcar will go into upgrading from dapper to hardy. I agree with you that it's going to be a pain to fix up though
[09:23] <imbrandon> highvoltage, yes and just whom do you think provides the special care ? heheh US
[09:23] <Fujitsu> We've got a *lot* of work to do.
[09:23] <imbrandon> thus better to start looking into potential problems NOW then 2 months before release
[09:24] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[09:24] <Fujitsu> I would have thought there'd be something about that at UDS, but I've seen naught.
[09:24] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, me either and i cant partisipate via voip untill tomarrow ( maybe not even then )
[09:24] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Why not?
[09:25] <imbrandon> but i'm going to shoot jcastro a note and see if he notices anyone talking aobut it
[09:25] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, no headset atm
[09:25] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[09:25] <imbrandon> well i HAVE one but its poor quality, i need to go pickup a new one
[09:26] <imbrandon> the old one is many moons old
[09:26] <imbrandon> i think i got it for the dapper UDS voip and let the kids use it after that since i was at the edgy one
[09:26] <imbrandon> etc
[09:28] <pwnguin> i had mad problems with ekiga
[09:28] <pwnguin> ridiculus echo
[09:28] <imbrandon> how critical is this error : ( i only have a single non-lvm ide disk ) just never seen it before .......
[09:28] <imbrandon> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-powerpc
[09:28] <imbrandon> mdadm: /dev/hda3 does not appear to be an md device
[09:28] <imbrandon> cpio: ./sbin/vgchange: Cannot stat: No such file or directory
[09:28] <pwnguin> well, i doubt your mac has raid
[09:28] <Fujitsu> That should be fine.
[09:28] <imbrandon> nah single ide 6gb disk
[09:28] <pwnguin> donno about cpio
[09:29] <imbrandon> kk
[09:31] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Probably just means lvm2 isn't properly installed.
[09:31] <imbrandon> k i'm just down to fixing udev and then install ubuntu-desktop again
[09:31] <imbrandon> then should be done
[09:31] <imbrandon> i think the hard stuff is past
[09:33] <Fujitsu> And then hoping that it boots.
[09:33] <imbrandon> lol yea
[09:33] <imbrandon> if not i have a etch netinstall disk handy :)
[09:33] <Fujitsu> It probably won't, but might if you use an old kernel.
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[09:34] <imbrandon> well i reinstalled the initramfs-tools a few cycles ago
[09:34] <imbrandon> sooo
[09:34]  * pwnguin is so happy
[09:34] <imbrandon> it should leaste boot
[09:34] <pwnguin> CellWriter is really, really nice
[09:34] <pwnguin> not quite TIP, but still pretty damn good
[09:35] <imbrandon> ugh i need an adb keyboard too
[09:35]  * imbrandon groans
[09:36] <pwnguin> adb keyboard?
[09:36] <imbrandon> the old apple ones before they went usb
[09:36] <pwnguin> oh
[09:36] <imbrandon> apple data bus , or something
[09:36] <pwnguin> you're pretty hard core there, sounds like
[09:37] <imbrandon> ummm ?
[09:37] <pwnguin> installing without a keyboard on a ppc?
[09:37] <imbrandon> nah i dont have any m68k's , yet
[09:37] <imbrandon> nah the iMac's i'm installing on have the usb keyboards, but i have a 3rd sitting here without one
[09:37] <imbrandon> and no usb
[09:37] <pwnguin> well, its WAAY past bedtime
[09:38] <imbrandon> :)
[09:38] <imbrandon> now sparc's i've installed with serial only
[09:38] <imbrandon> but thats been a while
[09:40]  * Fujitsu is boring, with not even and amd64.
[09:42] <Fujitsu> *an
[09:44] <imbrandon> hardware comes and goes, i just seem to cycle through it more than most
[09:44] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:15] <huats> hey guys
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Hi huats.
[10:15] <huats> I have realized that ampache is not in ubuntu (or at least I haven't seen it)
[10:16] <huats> but it is in debian.. is there a way to sync it ? ask for a sync ?
[10:16] <Hobbsee> shoudl autosync for gutsy, if it's in sid
[10:16] <huats> I've never done such a thing before... so I am asking what is the correct way :-)
[10:16] <imbrandon> if its in debian now, it will sync soon into hardy
[10:17] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, s/gutsy/hardy/g ?
[10:17] <huats> it is in sid and lenny
[10:17] <huats> so it'll be autosync
[10:17] <huats> ok that is great
[10:17] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, that.
[10:17] <huats> :-)
[10:17] <imbrandon> yup
[10:17] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think i need an autoreplace there
[10:17] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, :)
[10:19] <huats> imbrandon: thanks
[10:19] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: maybe if i upgrade to hardy, i'll remember
[10:19] <Hobbsee> but i still seem to think i'm on a development version
[10:19] <imbrandon> heh
[10:19]  * Fujitsu hasn't upgraded in a few hours :(
[10:20] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, woot, ppc dapper --> gutsy finished
[10:20] <imbrandon> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[10:20] <imbrandon> root@bondi-333:~#
[10:20] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Rebooted yet?
[10:20] <imbrandon> time to see what happens on a reboot
[10:20] <imbrandon> nope, bout to do that now
[10:20] <imbrandon> *cross fingers*
[10:20] <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
[10:24] <imbrandon> hrm
[10:24] <imbrandon> guess no boot for me
[10:24] <imbrandon> lol
[10:25] <imbrandon> time to go in the other room and see what it failed on
[10:25] <Fujitsu> In the initramfs, or otherwise?
[10:26] <imbrandon> no idea , i have to wait a ~1 hour to go in the room, its in where my wife is sleeping
[10:26] <imbrandon> i was doing it via ssh
[10:26] <imbrandon> lol
[10:26] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[10:26] <Fujitsu> Wait, wth are you doing up?
[10:27] <imbrandon> bored
[10:27] <imbrandon> not tired
[10:27] <imbrandon> etc
[10:27] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[10:32] <imbrandon> i peeked in , yea its an a busybox (initramfs) prompt
[10:32] <imbrandon> i'll have to poke at it more later
[10:32] <imbrandon> can it be recovered from that ?
[10:33] <Fujitsu> Try using an old kernel first - it's probably had issues with regenerating the new initramfs.
[10:33] <Fujitsu> It could also be that the upstart migration didn't go ideally.
[11:51] <amachu> bluekuja: hi
[12:10] <imbrandon> oh jez, ubuntu demon is at it again on planet
[12:13] <zul> imbrandon: fun fun
[12:16] <Fujitsu> His avatar... it burns.
[12:16] <Fujitsu> `I'm very sorry! I don't want to spam planet.ubuntu.com'
[13:10] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you log into sparky recently?
[13:10] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea i'm on it now
[13:10] <imbrandon> wasup?
[13:10] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you kill my screen session?
[13:11] <imbrandon> nope
[13:11]  * imbrandon killed no processes
[13:11] <Hobbsee> odd
[13:11] <Hobbsee> i had 2 screen sessions, and the more important one is somehow killed.
[13:11] <imbrandon> imbrandon@sparky:~$ uptime
[13:11] <imbrandon>  15:45:10 up 62 days,  4:57,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.02
[13:11] <imbrandon> no reboots either
[13:11] <zul> hey dholbach
[13:12] <imbrandon> ugh i cant get sip working
[13:12] <dholbach> hey zul
[13:12] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed - but that wouldnt have left one of the screens up, would it?  :)
[13:13] <imbrandon> nah nothing should have messed up your screen unless the app segfaulted that was running in it
[13:13] <imbrandon> ( or finished )
[13:13] <Hobbsee> both are unlikely
[13:13] <Hobbsee> oh well
[13:19] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for a MOTU to review my package on REVU : It currently has 0 advocations - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=easycrypt
[13:26] <joejaxx> jdong: ping :)
[13:28] <mok0> How do I "go merging"??
[13:28] <mok0> I'd like to help out
[13:32] <joejaxx> mok0: here is a guide to merging
[13:32] <joejaxx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
[13:33] <joejaxx> mok0: and here is the place where you can get the merges
[13:33] <joejaxx> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
[13:33] <joejaxx> mok0: make sure you ask the person in the "Last Uploader" field if they are not already working on it
[13:33] <joejaxx> :D
[13:36]  * dholbach hugs y'all
[13:39] <Kmos> dholbach: hi
[13:39] <dholbach> hey Kmos
[13:39] <Kmos> :)
[13:42] <mok0> joejaxx: Thanx for the reference. I thought noone was here so I whipped off a message to u-m
[13:43] <joejaxx> mok0: ah ok :)
[13:44] <joejaxx> mok0: you are most welcome
[13:44] <mok0> joejaxx: ... and I upload to REVU?
[13:44] <joejaxx> uhhh
[13:44] <joejaxx> no i do not think so
[13:45] <mok0> ... I can't upload anywhere else...
[13:45] <mok0> ... am not a MOTU
[13:45] <joejaxx> dholbach: do not know how this works? i have not done merging in a while :)
[13:46] <dholbach> joejaxx: there's wiki docs about that - I'm a bit busy right now
[13:46] <joejaxx> ok
[13:46] <huats> joejaxx: may be you can ask your pb here...
[13:47] <joejaxx> because i do not see anything about it on the wiki
[13:47] <huats> and I am sure that many people might be able to help you out
[13:47] <joejaxx> huats: it is not me with the issue it is mok0 :)
[13:47] <huats> yeah I know....
[13:47] <huats> I've done a very few merges...
[13:47] <huats> so may be I can help on very simple questions...
[13:47] <Hobbsee> upload to revu, or post a debdiff on teh bug
[13:48] <Hobbsee> depends if there's a new upstream version
[13:48] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: i thought revu was only for new packages
[13:48] <joejaxx> :P
[13:48] <mok0> OK I found the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
[13:48] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: it can be for new upstream versoins, etc, too.  depends which is more useful
[13:48] <joejaxx> oh ok
[13:51] <deadwill> yo
[13:52] <proppy> hi
[14:12] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:13] <deadwill> hiya bddebian
[14:18] <geser> Hi bddebian
[14:20] <bddebian> Heya deadwill, geser
[14:25] <norsetto> would anyone know where I can find an old debian source package?
[14:27] <proppy> norsetto: debian snapshot
[14:27] <proppy> norsetto: or debian archive
[14:27] <norsetto> proppy: where is that? For once that you should give me a link :-)
[14:27] <proppy> norsetto: http://snapshot.debian.net/
[14:28] <proppy> norsetto: http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
[14:30] <norsetto> proppy: thanks, the first should do I think
[14:30] <proppy> norsetto: you're welcome
[14:31] <proppy> norsetto: you mean that I give you too much link ? :)
[14:31] <proppy> usually :)
[14:32] <norsetto> proppy: got it :-) Too many? Well, it all depends on the standards ....
[14:33] <proppy> norsetto: btw you gave me a revelation yesterady
[14:33] <norsetto> proppy: you saw Mary?
[14:33] <proppy> norsetto: I saw a debian/rules with only an empty clean and build target
[14:34] <norsetto> proppy: oh, unitestc++ you mean
[14:34] <proppy> norsetto: nop
[14:34] <proppy> norsetto: on juce, when you tell me that debian/rules is only a makefile
[14:35] <norsetto> proppy: and then he saw the light .....
[14:35] <proppy> norsetto: and that debhelper are only command that you choose to replace so many line everybody is doing the same
[14:36] <proppy> norsetto: and I began with a minimal rules http://juce.aminche.com/juce-1.45/debian/rules
[14:36] <proppy> norsetto: that only successfully compile juce
[14:36] <proppy> norsetto: and I will figure out what debhelper do one by one
[14:36] <huats> norsetto: hello my favorite future tour guide
[14:37] <norsetto> huats: and on the left you can see the coliseum
[14:37] <huats> norsetto: oh...
[14:37] <huats> norsetto: this is so big
[14:38] <proppy> norsetto: I hope I didn't get it wrong
[14:39] <norsetto> proppy: it was very difficult to resist, but I did it
[14:39] <proppy> norsetto: ?
[14:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: excellent!
[14:39] <proppy> norsetto: to resist to what ?
[14:39] <norsetto> proppy: making a tasteless joke
[14:40] <jdong> norsetto: use the factoid
[14:40] <jdong> !twss
[14:40] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about twss - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[14:40] <jdong> grr never mind
[14:40] <norsetto> !language | jdong
[14:40] <ubotu> jdong: Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
[14:41] <Hobbsee> !twss-#ubuntuforums | jdong
[14:41] <ubotu> jdong: That's what she said!
[14:41] <norsetto> jdong: what is twss?
[14:41] <Hobbsee> !jdong | jdong
[14:41] <ubotu> jdong: <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
[14:41] <jdong> !twss-#ubuntuforums | norsetto
[14:41] <ubotu> norsetto: That's what she said!
[14:41] <Hobbsee> norsetto: dont ask things about the crack-saturated mind
[14:41] <norsetto> lol
[14:42] <jdong> we've gotta show our spirit for the US Office :)
[14:43] <norsetto> twss=thats what she said ... har har (sorry, still trying to digest the scrambled eggs and bacon)
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: don't use call the ops factoid :)
[14:49] <`23meg> bug 117256
[14:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117256 in ubuntu "Thats What She Said!" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117256
[14:50] <highvoltage> imbrandon: hehe
[14:50] <highvoltage> imbrandon: will universe also be upgradable from dapper to hardy?
[14:50] <Kmos> highvoltage: yes
[14:51] <highvoltage> shew
[14:51] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: that's the plan.
[14:51] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: modulo people around to help, though
[14:52] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: "modulo"? does that mean not enough?
[14:53] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: it's a term that people have been using a fair bit in ubuntu
[14:53] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: you're aware of modulo in, say, c++?
[14:54] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: nope, I'm afraid I'm terribly ignorant when it comes to c++
[14:54] <Pici> So, %, but what does that mean when it comes to upgrading... /me is confused too
[14:55] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: okay, if you divide 7/3, you get 2.  and 1 remainder.  so 7 % (mod) 3 == 1.
[14:55] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: it's basically another way of saying (assuming that this happens)
[14:55] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: ie.
[14:55] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: aah, right
[14:55] <Hobbsee> we will do this, as long as this stuff happens
[14:55] <Hobbsee> er, this other stuff
[14:59] <Pici> So... basically, you'll try just upgrading it and if it breaks someone will look at it?
[15:00] <Hobbsee> something like that
[15:10] <Mez> bug #59695
[15:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 59695 in acpi-support "High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime (dup-of: 17216)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59695
[15:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 17216 in acpi-support "Hard drive spindown should be configurable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17216
[15:20] <deadwill> hey Hobbsee
[15:20] <Hobbsee> hi deadwill
[15:40] <joejaxx> bryyce: are you free at the moment? :D
[15:41] <bryyce> yup
[15:41] <bryyce> I'm at the green chairs
[15:41] <joejaxx> ok
[15:42] <bryyce> does anyone know, does Launchpad have an "import bugs from Sourceforge" capability?
[15:44] <persia> bryce: Not import exactly, but if sourceforge is defined as the bugtracker for the upstream project, LP can track them.
[15:46] <sladen> bryyce: "link to upstream bugtracker"
[15:50] <norsetto> Hobbsee: do you know if I should already subscribe ums to bug 136634? For the time being I only subscribed u-sru
[15:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136634 in libcompress-zlib-perl "Unable to download packages using Gutsy debmirror" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136634
[15:51] <Hobbsee> norsetto: if you cant upload, yes, i think so
[15:51] <norsetto> Hobbsee: right, I will do, thanks
[15:59] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for a MOTU to review my package on REVU : It currently has 0 advocations - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=easycrypt
[16:04]  * persia notes that people who don't leave the channel are more likely to either receive reviews or feedback on why they might not be receiving reviews
[16:10] <bddebian> persia: :)
[16:11] <persia> bddebian: Take a look in the logs sometime.  That specific request seems to come every two or three hours, during certain portions of the British day.  Unfortunately, the offender left before I could explain why nobody will review the package.
[16:12] <bryyce> persia, sladen: thanks; what I'm really looking for is to migrate a project's bug tracking off SF onto LP
[16:12] <norsetto> persia: seems like that could be a script actually
[16:13] <persia> bryyce: Importing all the legacy bugs?  That's a little trickier.  I'd suggest waiting until next week, and asking in #launchpad
[16:13] <bryyce> ok
[16:13] <Hobbsee> well, someone give him a review, and then hopefully he'll fix it enough to stop bugging :)
[16:13] <mok0> I need to create a package from a binary-only distribution. But I need to make both i386 and amd64 .debs. Any ideas how to do that?
[16:13] <persia> norsetto: Could be.  At least it's a well-formed request :)
[16:14] <sladen> bryyce: in that case, that's different, talking the LP developers about doing a project import
[16:14] <persia> mok0: When you say "binary-only", is this binary to be executed on the host processor, or is it some sort of firmware?
[16:14] <mok0> persia: it's a compiled program, closed-source
[16:14] <norsetto> Hobbsee: it was reviewed by at least 7 people, some of whom did it several times .....
[16:15] <mok0> persia: I've downloaded two tar files, one for amd64 and one for i386
[16:15] <mok0> I thought perhaps I could choose the tar file to unpack in debian/rules or something
[16:16] <persia> mok0: Ah.  You can build binary packages from binary tar, but Ubuntu can't distribute it.  Look at the documentation for dpkg-deb for helpers, or build it manually (ar containing tar.gz files)
[16:16] <mok0> persia: Yeah, I know, its for local distribution only.
[16:16] <persia> mok0: It's easier to just rearrange the tar to have things in the right places, and to make a parallel tar with the control file, extras, and maintainer scripts.
[16:16] <mok0> persia:  l like to build everything using debomatic these days :-)
[16:17] <persia> mok0: "Building" a binary is a waste of cycles :)  If you really wanted to do it, yes, rules could untar, and then call dpkg-deb to re-tar, but I don't see the point.
[16:18] <mok0> persia: It's just that I like to build everything in a similar fashion, whether or not it is closed-source or not.
[16:19] <mok0> What is the name of the rules target that does the tar file unpacking?
[16:20] <persia> mok0: OK.  I still think `tar xzf foo.tgz; cd foo; mkdir -p usr/local/foo; mv * usr/local/foo; mkdir DEBIAN; vi DEBIAN/control; dpkg-deb -b` is easier than building a package, but that may just be me.
[16:21] <persia> mok0: You'll do best to make your own.  The tarfile-in-tarfile system tends to be very confusing.
[16:21] <mok0> persia: OK, so you mean unpack in the "build" target or something?
[16:22] <persia> mok0: If you insist, yes.
[16:22] <mok0> persia: I do insist, heh ;-)
[16:22] <persia> (especially because you would be able to take advantage of DEB_BUILD_ARCH)
[16:22] <mok0> persia: exactly
[16:23] <mok0> that's what I envisioned
[16:23] <persia> mok0: I still claim the single line shell script above is easier :)
[16:24] <persia> mok0: But I'm tired: please excuse me.
[16:24] <mok0> persia: I tend to forget these things, I have a lot of nosource programs to install, and they're all different.
[16:24] <mok0> persia: Well thanks for the advice!
[16:24] <persia> mok0: Ugh.
[16:53] <deadwill> hey norsetto, hi! :)
[16:55] <hellboy195> does anybody know if gimp 2.4 finally arrives gutsy-updates? although gimp 2.4.1 was released today. It's a bugfix release ;)
[16:56] <Burgundavia> hellboy195: it will not
[16:56] <Burgundavia> it might show up in -backports
[16:56] <hellboy195> Burgundavia: somethings ubuntu-devs seem to be very confused. thx for the info
[17:13] <sacater> fear welp, if he enters
[18:05] <nxvl> asac: ping
[18:06] <nxvl> Fujitsu: ping
[18:08] <norsetto> nxvl: fujitsu told me already he is fine with the change but please check with asac if he is ok too, and if he has some other fixes to include. Thanks!
[18:09] <nxvl> norsetto: i send them an e-mail yesterday, i'm waiting for an answer
[18:09] <norsetto> nxvl: I think asac is at the UDS so it may take a while
[18:09] <nxvl> norsetto: so, Fujitsu doesn't want to include no other fixes?
[18:10] <nxvl> norsetto: that's what i thought
[18:11] <nxvl> norsetto: how is the process to became a MOTU member? what are the conditions/steps?
[18:11] <nxvl> norsetto: do i need a mentor like in debian NM process?
[18:11] <norsetto> nxvl: a mentor is not required
[18:11] <asac> nxvl: pong
[18:12] <nxvl> asac: norsetto has just answer me :D, i send you an e-mail yesterday, have you received it?
[18:12] <nxvl> s/have/did/
[18:12] <asac> hmm
[18:12] <asac> your name/email?
[18:12] <nxvl> Nicolas Valcarcel<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:13] <norsetto> nxvl: here is a list of bugs on the plugin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayerplug-in/
[18:13] <asac> let me look in spam ... its not in my inbox
[18:13] <asac> not found either
[18:14] <nxvl> asac: i send it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:14] <asac> yeah thats correct
[18:14] <asac> can you please resend it?
[18:14] <asac> unless its void now of course
[18:14] <nxvl> norsetto: ok i will patch some of them
[18:15] <nxvl> asac: there is no need, i was asking for LP Bug #137993
[18:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137993
[18:15] <nxvl> asac: if you want to add more fixes
[18:16] <nenolod> hi,
[18:16] <asac> ah right ... i looked at the bug but didn't manage to comment.
[18:16] <nenolod> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libprojectm can be nuked because i just uploaded libprojectM 1.x to debian (it is in NEW)
[18:17] <nenolod> so it will be available by the next time there is a sync
[18:17] <asac> i think that just recommends is not enough because i don't see any use of the package if no plugin host is available on your system
[18:18] <asac> further i don't understand why you have: | konqueror, xulrunner instead of | konqueror | xulrunner
[18:18] <asac> ??
[18:18] <nenolod> apachelogger, http://ftp-master.debian.org/~ajt/new/libprojectm_1.01-1_i386.html
[18:18] <nenolod> ;p
[18:19] <norsetto> asac: yes, all these have been clarified, the question now is if you have other fixes that you would like xnvl to include
[18:19] <norsetto> nxvl even
[18:20] <asac> norsetto: please remember that the new xulrunner package is called xulrunner-1.9
[18:21] <nxvl> asac: i have fixed it that way konkeror | xulrunner, but not uploaded it yet
[18:21] <norsetto> asac: ok, thanks for the input, xulrunner is just a transitional package, or its an obsolete one?
[18:22] <asac> and please take a look where the plugin directory for xulrunner-1.9 lives in .. its a directory on its own from what i remember
[18:22] <asac> xulrunner is a different kind of thing ... its a fork that debian introduced. Not sure if it will be removed for hardy though
[18:22] <moquist> can someone name a source package that has multiple binaries and/or metapackages in its control file?
[18:23]  * moquist needs an example
[18:23] <asac> moquist: most non-trivial packages ... like firefox et al
[18:23] <norsetto> asac: ok, so we will only add xulrunner-1.9 then, and we will add, if needed, appropriate links
[18:24] <asac> right ... you can keep xulrunner for now ... for the sake of sending the diff upstream (to debian)
[18:24] <asac> norsetto: you can then verify that it works for xulrunner-1.9 by running firefox-3.0
[18:24] <moquist> asac: thx
[18:26] <nenolod> apachelogger, so anyway, all you should need to do is package libvisual-projectM 1.x once libprojectM hits universe
[18:26] <moquist> asac: do you know what "moodle has no source override entry" means? (output from apt-ftparchive)
[18:26] <norsetto> asac: interesting, I actually tried gecko-mediaplayer with granparadiso and it didn't work
[18:27] <asac> moquist: i think that the package doesn't have entries for things like Section: and you don't have explicit overrides for your ftp archive setup
[18:28] <asac> norsetto: in general it should work ... when did you try?
[18:28] <norsetto> asac: must have been 2 or 3 weeks ago
[18:28] <TheMuso_Boston> How likely is it that we will have firefox v3 for hardy by default?
[18:30] <asac> unless mozilla defers the final release for  long time firefox v3 will be default
[18:31] <norsetto> asac: I thought it was the plugin dir, but it seems to be the same for 2.0 and 3.0 (/usr/lib/firefox/plugins/)
[18:31] <asac> nope
[18:31] <asac> its not the right directory
[18:31] <norsetto> asac: ah!
[18:31] <asac> use the xulrunner-1.9 plugin dir
[18:31] <norsetto> asac: this could explain it then
[18:32] <asac> norsetto: please join #ubuntu-mozillateam and ask Ubulette where the final dir will be ... the one in gutsy is not the right one either for hardy
[18:32] <norsetto> asac: I see, ok will do right now
[18:36] <nxvl> ok, back
[18:36] <blueyed> pwnguin: you can use trickle to limit dput uploads (and any other program's net traffic)..
[18:37] <nxvl> asac: so, what you are saying is that the installation process must be different if it is installed with gecko-browsers o with xulrunner?
[18:38] <asac> nxvl: for gecko-browsers that use xulrunner-1.9 installing the plugin to xulrunners plugin dir is sufficient
[18:38] <asac> for _old_ gecko browsers you need to put it into the dir that those browsers provide
[18:38] <nxvl> mmm
[18:38] <nxvl> kind of difficult task
[18:39] <nxvl> so i need to check what de dependencies are and then do the install process for them
[18:39] <nxvl> cause if i install it only in the xulrunner path it will be unusefull for gecko-browsers
[18:40] <nxvl> well, for gecko-browsers without xulrunner
[19:29] <Kmos> norsetto: can you check bug 157160 - it has debdiff attached
[19:29] <Kmos> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient/+bug/157160
[19:39] <AnAnt> Hello, I am making a package for a metacity/gtk/icon theme, this theme is based on Human theme which is under CC license, so who should be mentioned in the copyright file ? the original artists who done Human theme, or the people who modified it, or both ? and can the new theme be licensed under GPL ?
[19:40] <pochu> I guess it depends on which CC license... but IANAL...
[19:40] <AnAnt> are there several CC licenses ?
[19:41] <pochu> afaik yes.
[19:41] <geser> Kmos: about the ddclient merge: why did you removed the Uploaders line? are the old Ubuntu changelog entries merged into the debian package or why are they missing?
[19:41] <pochu> And some are non-free, iirc
[19:42] <superm1> AnAnt, http://creativecommons.org/license/
[19:42] <superm1> you can choose the license you see appropriate
[19:42] <Kmos> geser: i'm done the latest two releases at debian of ddclient, i've merged everything from ubuntu.. only -multiuser spec and patch sample_ubuntu.diff aren't included
[19:42] <Kmos> the uploaders.. hmm
[19:43]  * Kmos his testing right now pingus 0.7.2 for debian, to after be synced to hardy
[19:43] <Kmos> when it's released :) hehe
[19:44] <Kmos> geser: i've removed the uploaders in the ubuntu version.. to change it to XSBC
[19:45] <Kmos> geser: the changelog entries are merged into debian... :-)
[19:45] <pochu> superm1: can he? if the theme is a fork of Human, shouldn't he keep the Human license? (unless that license let's him to choose a different one, but I doubt it...)
[19:46] <geser> Kmos: only the Maintainer field needs to be changed, Uploaders can stay as it is (but Uploaders isn't used in Ubuntu anyway)
[19:46] <superm1> pochu, that's why i was so broad about my response.
[19:46] <superm1> pochu, but that's a good point
[19:46] <superm1> pochu, what CC license is it under?
[19:46] <Kmos> geser: so it's fine ?
[19:47] <Kmos> geser: i've added a comment the bug about the changelog merge and the uploaders field.
[19:49] <geser> I've only give it quick look but didn't checked if the other Ubuntu changes are included in the Debian package yet, will do it later
[19:49] <Kmos> geser: ok, thanks =)
[19:49] <pochu> superm1: I don't know :)
[19:51] <ajmitch> hello
[19:52] <pochu> heya ajmitch
[19:54] <AnAnt> thanks
[20:17] <superm1> jdong, why aren't you here?
[20:18] <ScottK> Hello everyone.  I'm back home from UDS.
[20:18] <StevenK> ScottK: How was your trip back?
[20:19] <ScottK> StevenK: Trip back was very uneventful.  Train ran on time and stayed on the tracks.
[20:19] <hellboy195> ScottK: any news from the UDS ?
[20:19] <ScottK> hellboy195: I think anything that would qualify as news is in the specs, so I'd look there.
[20:20] <hellboy195> ScottK: k, btw you know a motu which was involved in the decision to put gimp 2.4 final into the backports that I can contact?
[20:22] <ScottK> Hmmm.  Did we do that?  hellboy195: what bug?
[20:23] <hellboy195> ScottK: No. I just want to know WHY this decision was made. Someone told me that gimp would only arrive to gutsy through backports
[20:23] <ScottK> hellboy195: Ah.  Well first, GIMP is in Main, so it wouldn't be a MOTU decision.
[20:24] <ScottK> hellboy195: 2nd, we only change stuff after release to fix critical bugs and freeze taking new versions well before to make sure stuff gets tested.  When was it released?
[20:25] <Lure> I have sru candidate for gutsy: if I understand correctly, after testing it myself, I just upload to gutsy-proposed and ask for additional testers
[20:26] <ajmitch> ScottK: I believe it was released shortly after gutsy was
[20:26]  * Lure thinks that universe sru rules are more complicated than main
[20:26] <hellboy195> ScottK: gimp RC3 is in main but not the final. the final arrived a week ago. It was discussed to put it into gutsy-update but now I was told that I would only arrive in backports and this is stupid I thing. Btw gimp 2.4.1 was released --> bugfixrelease
[20:26] <ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
[20:26] <ajmitch> Lure: how is it more complicated?
[20:26] <Lure> ajmitch: the first step is not clear (at least on wiki)
[20:26] <ajmitch> seems like we can't keep anyone happy
[20:27] <Lure> ajmitch: it is not clear to me who decides what goes in -proposed: any motu?
[20:27] <hellboy195> ajmitch: you mean me?
[20:27] <ScottK> hellboy195: OK.  It's pretty normal not to update stuff.  If it was discussed to update it, I'd ask someone who was involved in the discussion (i.e. not me).
[20:27] <ScottK> Lure: Any MOTU.
[20:27] <ScottK> Lure: You will get teased if it's not tested before you upload it though.
[20:28] <hellboy195> ScottK: thx becaue I think it's not good to push software to RC3 and than not to final. I can't see a sense here
[20:28] <Lure> ScottK: no problem - I test even before uploading to my ppa ;-)
[20:28]  * Lure had some retries on his ppa builds ;-)
[20:28] <ScottK> hellboy195: OK.  It's unclear why you are continuing to argue with me about it instead of someone who knows about it.
[20:28] <ajmitch> Lure: if you feel that the steps are unclear, please comment on it & propose a cleanup :)
[20:29] <ScottK> Lure: That's very sensible, unfortunately not everyone manages.
[20:29] <hellboy195> ScottK: argh sry.
[20:29] <Lure> ajmitch: can I just add some clarification for prepare step?
[20:29] <ScottK> hellboy195: No problem.
[20:29] <ajmitch> Lure: yes
[20:30] <Lure> ajmitch: I would just add "Any MOTU can decide for individual SRU and prepare the package for -proposed" as first bullet to Prepare section
[20:31] <ScottK> Lure: I'd say add it.  Your clarifying the existing policy, not changing it.
[20:31] <Lure> ScottK: exactly
[20:33] <jdong> superm1: because MIT is living hell and undead hell too, all at the same time.
[20:33] <superm1> jdong, i got really confused walking through the campus today actually trying to find the book store
[20:33] <superm1> but it didn't *seem* like hell to me at...
[20:33] <jdong> superm1: numbers are your friend...
[20:34] <jdong> or worst enemy
[20:34] <superm1> jdong, well you should make it out for at least a day of talks i say
[20:34] <jdong> superm1: yeah, totally, I'll defintiely make an appearance tomorrow or Fri :)
[20:35] <superm1> good
[20:36] <joejaxx> jdong: !!
[20:36] <jdong> ow!
[20:36] <joejaxx> jdong: can you do me a favor? :D
[20:36] <jdong> joejaxx: depends :)
[20:37] <joejaxx> jdong: can you burn 3 discs for me? the bandwidth at uds needs to be spared
[20:37] <joejaxx> :P
[20:38] <jdong> joejaxx: haha, sure, what kind of discs?
[20:38] <joejaxx> cdr
[20:38] <jdong> sounds simple enough
[20:38] <superm1> jdong, dont do it!
[20:38] <superm1> its a trick
[20:38] <jdong> lol
[20:39]  * jdong opened up amazon and forgot what he was searching for...
[20:39] <TheMuso_Boston> Try a trap.
[20:39] <TheMuso_Boston> jdong: What he is about to ask you will likely go against all your morals. :p
[20:39] <joejaxx> debian 4r1 disc 1/fedora7 livecd/ and the latest sidux installer
[20:39] <joejaxx> all i386
[20:39] <jdong> mmmkay, when do you want this by?
[20:39] <TheMuso_Boston> TOLD YOU!!!!
[20:40] <joejaxx> i can compensate you for the cdrs
[20:40] <jdong> oh don't sweat the CD-R's :)
[20:40] <joejaxx> jdong: whenever you come by :D
[20:40] <jdong> joejaxx: ok, on my todo list :)
[20:40]  * jdong decides to use... AZUREUS... to grab the ISO's
[20:41] <norsetto> hey jdong, any news about prevu?
[20:41] <TheMuso_Boston> Ok thats a trap in itself.
[20:41] <TheMuso_Boston> :p
[20:41] <joejaxx> TheMuso_Boston: getting azureus to install on ubuntu is a trap
[20:41] <joejaxx> lol
[20:41] <jdong> norsetto: sorry, been really busy, I saw the changes dropped that you described, will apply them when my blood pressure drops below 200 and resubscribe
[20:42] <norsetto> jdong: I hope its not bars you talking about .....
[20:43] <jdong> lol
[20:43] <jdong> nah, those mercury unit thingies.
[20:44] <superm1> jdong, did azureus finish on the buildd's for the gutsy backports yet?
[20:44] <jdong> superm1: no, second build is STILL in queue, I just approved the backport anyway with justification taht there's no reason why it would not build.
[20:45] <jdong> (no packaging or Java source changes since prev upload)
[20:45] <superm1> jdong, you want me to beat up pitti?
[20:45] <jdong> superm1: sounds like fun.
[20:45] <jdong> :)
[20:45] <joejaxx> lol
[20:46] <joejaxx> lol and firefox is still compiling
[20:46] <jdong> you'd expect that out of Firefox though :)
[20:47] <jdong> don't worry, compiling only takes half the CPU and RAM of the finished product
[20:47]  * jdong ducks
[20:48] <joejaxx> :P
[21:21] <SWAT> I am using pbuilder and am getting this error when I install a package. What am I missing or doing wrong? -> update-binfmts: warning: unable to open /usr/share/binfmts/<somepackage>: No such file or directory, update-binfmts: warning: couldn't find information about '<somepackage>' to import, update-binfmts: exiting due to previous errors
[21:32] <geser> SWAT: I haven't seen this before. Can you paste-bin the whole log till this error?
[21:35] <ajmitch> SWAT: is it when you try & install a package that you built, or when building it?
[21:36] <SWAT> building worked, I get it when I install the package
[21:37] <ajmitch> so you're using something in the postinst that tries to update the list of active binfmts, but the file isn't being installed there?
[21:38] <SWAT> seems that way (binfmts is in postinst and prerm)
[21:38] <SWAT> I'm building wine from source (as a start) and that's the only thing that goes wrong
[21:39] <ajmitch> ah right
[21:39] <ajmitch> building it with your own packaging, or others?
[21:41] <SWAT> I don't quite remember (it was late, I was tired and it was compiling, so I was satisfied). I'll try it from scratch again then
[21:41] <ajmitch> what do you mean, from scratch?
[21:41] <SWAT> .tar.bz2 from winehq
[21:41] <ajmitch> right
[21:41] <ajmitch> not using the winehq packages then?
[21:42] <SWAT> I am just trying to get the hang of packaging, so I started with that
[21:42] <SWAT> and no, I'm not using their packages
[21:42] <ajmitch> starting with wine is optimistic :)
[21:43] <SWAT> well, it works, (except for the binfmts thing)
[21:44] <hellboy195> ajmitch: I'm using there packages. Are they good or bad?
[21:44] <ScottK> hellboy195: The same guy that doesn the winehq wine package does ours too.
[21:44] <ajmitch> hellboy195: they're fine to use
[21:44]  * ajmitch is still using 0.9.41 from there :)
[21:45] <hellboy195> ScottK: ajmitch : great :) no problems with them since years ,..
[21:46]  * hellboy195 is still using 0.9.48 ^^
[21:51] <wallyweek> hey! :)
[21:51] <wallyweek> anyone willing to do some reviews?
[22:01] <Lure> I suspect new packages from debian will apear in hardy, right? when does this initial sync complete?
[22:01] <ajmitch> yes, they will, but are temporarily held in NEW
[22:01] <ajmitch> iirc
[22:01] <ajmitch> I think they may get a cursory check before being accepted
[22:03] <Lure> ajmitch: ok, need to wait with ufraw merge until gtkimageview gets in hardy
[22:03] <ajmitch> ok
[22:13] <hellboy195> good night guys ;)
[22:19] <Fujitsu> Grrr, why can lintian only see 500 binaries in the archive...
[22:20] <SWAT> how do you package something that doesn't need to be compiled? (example: a set of example files etc.)
[22:22] <pwnguin> SWAT: just omit the build step in rules and use dh_install?
[22:22] <geser> SWAT: write some cp calls into debian/rules to copy them to the right location
[22:23] <geser> or use dh_install for it
[22:24] <SWAT> thanks guys :) (I'll have to use the rules because I use pbuilder)
[22:46] <lamego> or just use a CDBS debian/rules 2 lines file and a  package.install file
[22:56] <Megaqwerty> Could anyone tell me how I would go about running cmake in debian/rules? I'm still kinda new to this...
[22:57] <geser> call it from the right target
[22:58] <geser> debian/rules is a makefile which calls the programs to produce a deb in the right order
[22:59] <Megaqwerty> geser: so, could you give me a site that would detail how to do it correctly? Or, better yet, could you show me the syntax? (My debian/rules was just generated from dh_make using cdbs, and that's as far as I got)
[23:00] <geser> the syntax is of a normal gnu makefile and for cdbs see https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
[23:01] <Megaqwerty> thanks geser
[23:01] <Megaqwerty> I'll check it out!
[23:02] <geser> I don't know cdbs too good to know offhand which is the right target in cdbs to place a call to cmake
[23:03] <Megaqwerty> geser: well, then let's assume for the moment I don't use cdbs. How would I use it regularly?
[23:05] <geser> normally you would call 'make' inside the build target to start the build with the upstream makefile (perhaps after a configure)
[23:05] <geser> replace this with a call to cmake
[23:05] <geser> or whatever you need to call to get the software compiled
[23:06] <lamego> Megaqwerty, there is a cmake.mk for cdbs around
[23:07] <Megaqwerty> lamego: that'd be really convenient.
[23:07] <lamego> Megaqwerty, http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/build-common-hackers/2006-July/002908.html
[23:07] <lamego> it is used on some packages, but it is not yet provided at the system level
[23:08] <norsetto> you know what?
[23:08] <Megaqwerty> norsetto: probably not
[23:09] <Megaqwerty> lamego: So, just copy everything from --next part-- down?
[23:09] <norsetto> well, let me tell you: I'M GOING TO BED
[23:09] <Megaqwerty> 'night norsetto
[23:09] <norsetto> g'night all, the good, the bad and some of the uglies too
[23:10] <norsetto> geser included :-D
[23:11] <lamego> Megaqwerty, yup
[23:11] <Megaqwerty> lamego: cool, thanks. Trying it out now
[23:32] <chuck__> evening
[23:46] <bddebian> Heya gang
[23:47] <Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
[23:47] <bddebian> Hey Fujitsu
[23:48] <pochu> Night all
[23:52] <RAOF> Heya bddebian
[23:52] <bddebian> Hi RAOF
[23:52] <bddebian> gnight pochu
[23:54] <fernando2> hey bddebian
[23:54] <_16aR_> Hello
[23:54] <bddebian> Hi fernando2
[23:55] <_16aR_> Where can I put everyone that participated to a project (even a 1 line patch )
[23:55] <_16aR_> Into Upstream Author: category in debian/copyright ?
[23:55] <_16aR_> or Into Copyright: category in debian/copyright ?


[18:40] <genii> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/2582-saucy-salamander-toronto-release-party/    For thoose who might be interested :)
[19:26] <genii> BobJonkman: Didn't realize you were also involved with MLUG until just now.
[19:27] <BobJonkman> It's been a while since I've been to a meeting
[19:28] <BobJonkman> When victorbrca (Victor Mendonca) first started it up, we were meeting really close to where I was working at the time
[19:28] <BobJonkman> And, ironically, now Victor works only a few km down the road from here...
[19:29] <genii> He's been following you! ;)
[19:29] <BobJonkman> :)
[19:30] <BobJonkman> We'd sometimes celebrate Ubuntu Releases there, but I think their focus has drifted away from Ubuntu as a desktop OS to more of a "Linux in the corporation" LUG
[19:32] <genii> Ah. Was looking at their site to see if there was a way to let them know about the party here, and saw your name on the mailing-lists
[19:32] <genii> And I'm like "Damn, that guy gets around!"
[20:07] <BobJonkman> I'll send out a notice to the mailing lists on the Monday before the release. I usually include MLUG and TLUG on events that might be of interest to them.
[20:08] <BobJonkman> No sign of a KW party yet. I asked about interest, and there's been no response.  We're a bit hard up for a venue this time (Kwartzlab is busy; they're hackathonning)
[20:08] <genii> The big one will be 14.04
[20:14] <genii> BobJonkman: I already sent a notice out on the -ca mailing list, as well as GTALUG and some misc others. But any you could add would of course be appreciated.
[20:15] <BobJonkman> For a Toronto event I'd include MLUG, the Guelph list, the KW list, and maybe the London list.
[20:19] <genii> BobJonkman: I have regulars that also come from FreeGeek and they spread the word too. I invited all the HackLab.to people again and Planet Geek. Also emailed an event notice to CP24 but I've done that every time since 10.04 and it never ended up getting posted there :)