[02:42] <delt> hello
[02:42] <delt> holstein: updating my BIOS fixed pretty much all problems i was experiencing :D
[02:43] <delt> anyway, back on topic, installing 14.04 on the desktop machine as we speak....
[02:47] <holstein> it can help.. cheers!
[02:49] <delt> i still have that old power supply... it's a 350w and the board's specifications say that's the minimum for an "average" system
[02:51] <holstein> well, it doesnt matter what says what.. if its enough watts
[02:51] <holstein> if you are pulling more than that, you'll want more
[03:22] <delt> 14.04 beta2 is out... should i install that on top of beta1?
[03:23] <holstein> why?
[03:23] <holstein> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and you have the current stuff
[03:24] <delt> oh, and even though everything is working smoothly, dmesg shows me this weird message [  430.timingwhatever] usb_submit_urb: -16
[03:25] <holstein> ok
[03:25] <delt> kernel is complaining about something....
[03:25] <holstein> i always look on the equipment for official support stickers for linux.. then, if i dont find any, i keep an open mind and expect at least "messages".. if not errors and problems
[03:26] <delt> i called the computer store, and they told me driver support for the usb ports on this board is most probably the issue
[03:27] <holstein> sure
[03:27] <delt> dist-upgrade says 384mb of extra stuff will be downloaded :3
[03:28] <delt> downloading now...
[03:28] <holstein> it'll be constantly upgrading
[03:28] <holstein> right now, expecially. crunch time
[03:28] <holstein> and, it could break
[03:28] <delt> heh yeah , i expected that
[03:29] <holstein> what would i do? get it running.. and wait til after release.. and upgrade
[03:29] <holstein> but, you'll likely be fine right now
[04:13] <delt> argh.. spoke too soon, still missing notes :(
[04:30] <delt> what's the package for nfs client support again? can't find it
[04:32] <delt> ah, works with mount -t nfs ...nm
[04:53] <delt> I submitted a bug report on launchpad.
[04:54] <delt> Can anyone tell me if this is something that's likely to be fixed in the near-to-mid future? ---> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/1299328
[04:54] <delt> (assuming it's not a hardware fault on my side)
[06:27] <rb6> hello
[06:27] <fibz_> hi
[06:27] <rb6> fibz_: do you use ubuntu studio?
[06:27] <fibz_> yes
[06:27] <rb6> cool, its good?
[06:28] <fibz_> it's my favorite linux flavor
[06:29] <rb6> really, so what do you use the distro for in the main?
[06:29] <fibz_> web development and video editing
[06:29] <rb6> cool
[06:29] <rb6> i'm looking into it for music recording
[06:30] <rb6> for me and a friend of mine. he's the musician and I'm the linux "expert"
[06:31] <fibz_> good luck
[06:31] <rb6> haha exactly
[06:32] <rb6> what hardware are you running fibz_ ?
[06:32] <fibz_> stuff
[06:33] <fibz_> i made this just playing around: http://xroads.x10.bz/xroads-network/index.php?do=/jdomitilli/music/view/ducker-creek/
[06:45] <rb6> cool
[06:45] <rb6> do you have a sound card or are you using on board audio?
[06:50] <fibz_> onboard+Turtle Beach+SoundBlaster X-Fi
[06:51] <fibz_> Roland keyboard
[06:58] <rb6> wow
[06:58] <rb6> and what is your mainboard/cpu setup?
[06:59] <fibz_> no i just manage a lot of equipment
[06:59] <rb6> what do you mean 'manage a lot of equipment'
[07:00] <rb6> i mean to ask what do you have for processor, intel or amd?
[07:01] <fibz_> i have 9 PCs in this room alone
[07:03] <rb6> wow
[07:03] <fibz_> intel and amd
[07:03] <rb6> interesting
[07:09] <rb6> i'm just wondering because i'm going to go price out then build a system specifically for ubuntu studio, so i'm wondering what hardware people are using with Studio
[07:09] <rb6> but since it's Ubuntu based, most popular hardware should be supported.
[07:11] <rb6> anyways, gotta go, seeya
[08:13] <TerranceWarrior> fibz_: do you use keyboard with asio?
[08:13] <TerranceWarrior> (for midi)
[09:50] <fibz_> alsa
[10:26] <TerranceWarrior> fibz_: what can one do if one want to play windows vsts via midi keyboard?
[10:29] <fibz_> use wine
[10:30] <TerranceWarrior> works?
[10:30] <TerranceWarrior> no hiccups?
[10:31] <TerranceWarrior> even in windows with asio i got hiccups.
[10:32] <fibz_> ASIO sucks. qjackctrl can pipe to alsa, roland software works in wine
[10:32] <TerranceWarrior> wow
[10:32] <TerranceWarrior> ok
[10:32] <TerranceWarrior> i will try
[10:33] <TerranceWarrior> so all i need is jack, wine, reaper and the vst?
[10:33] <fibz_> and wineasio
[10:33] <fibz_> and wine tricks
[10:34] <fibz_> all i did was sudo apt-get install playonlinux
[10:34] <TerranceWarrior> i have wine v 1.4.1
[10:35] <fibz_> and wineasio
[10:38] <TerranceWarrior> fibz_: i see playonlinux but no wineasio
[10:38] <fibz_> well try and see
[10:39] <TerranceWarrior> ok
[10:40] <TerranceWarrior> gonna look at it tomorrow
[10:41] <TerranceWarrior> fibz_: have you heard anything not working (like korg software perhaps)?
[10:42] <fibz_> the software usually works, the fight is with ASIO
[10:42] <TerranceWarrior> oh ok.
[10:42] <TerranceWarrior> should i install asio in wine?
[10:43] <fibz_> its worth a shot. so is this: http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10249#p32743
[10:47] <TerranceWarrior> fibz_: quantel is the version?
[10:48] <TerranceWarrior> i'm getting a cert problem specifying VERSION as saucy
[10:50] <fibz_> im on precise, quantal and trusty myself
[10:50] <TerranceWarrior> how the heck do i get reaper?
[10:50] <fibz_> reaper?
[10:50] <TerranceWarrior> which is the better VERSION i should use?
[10:51] <TerranceWarrior> it's a midi program for windows.
[10:53] <fibz_> http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/DEBs/repo/
[10:55] <TerranceWarrior> why am i getting samba installed?
[10:56] <fibz_> 4 windows shares through wine
[10:56] <TerranceWarrior> ah ok
[10:56] <fibz_> would be my guess
[10:56] <TerranceWarrior> i get paranoid when i see network stuff getting installed.
[10:58] <TerranceWarrior> can i just download and installed that *.iso on the kxstudio download?
[15:33] <kikimeter> Hi, can someone help me to get some sound in ubuntu ?
[15:33] <kikimeter> In my sound settings panels I got a Dummy Output
[15:34] <kikimeter> I've reinstalled pulse audio and asla-base
[15:34] <kikimeter> and I force-reload alsa
[15:35] <kikimeter> And i got some thing like:
[15:35] <kikimeter> Unloading ALSA sound driver modules: (none loaded).
[15:35] <kikimeter> Loading ALSA sound driver modules: (none to reload).
[15:35] <kikimeter> I'm on a ubuntu minimal with unity install on it, and my mother board is 98z77
[15:35] <kikimeter> p8z77*
[15:50] <holstein> kikimeter: i would try the main #ubuntu channel since you are not using ubuntustudio, but let me suggest some troubleshooting tips
[15:51] <kikimeter> lol
[15:51] <holstein> kikimeter: ?
[15:51] <kikimeter> ubuntu main channel send me here
[15:51] <holstein> kikimeter: im not trying to be funny.. just a volunteer..
[15:51] <kikimeter> no offense
[15:51] <holstein> no worries.. welcome to the channel
[15:51] <kikimeter> It's just that it make me laugh
[15:51] <kikimeter> :)
[15:51] <holstein> first, try *all* muting possibilities.. anything on the keyboard that may be muting
[15:51] <holstein> then, you can look at...
[15:51] <holstein> !audio
[15:51] <kikimeter> I thin k i found a solution
[15:52] <kikimeter> I need to install realtek driver for alc892
[15:52] <holstein> but, more specifically.. a few commands in the terminal. you want to see the device in the terminal when you run..
[15:52] <kikimeter> I try to found where I can found the driver
[15:52] <holstein> lspci
[15:52] <holstein> then, you want to run "aplay -l" and "arecord -l"
[15:52] <kikimeter> I have no sound card deteded
[15:52] <holstein> kikimeter: the kernel is modular. the drivers are in the kernel
[15:53] <holstein> kikimeter: ok.. so that is telling, and gives us a place to start
[15:53] <kikimeter> aplay -l
[15:53] <kikimeter> no sound card
[15:53] <holstein> you can stop messing with installing and reinstalling anything
[15:53] <kikimeter> I have dummy output in my setting sound pannel
[15:53] <holstein> pulse is not the problem
[15:53] <kikimeter> So i'm pretty sure I have to install realtek driver
[15:53] <holstein> kikimeter: dmmy is just that.. "dummy
[15:53] <holstein> it wont make sound
[15:53] <kikimeter> yes sure
[15:54] <holstein> the problem is, the system is not seeing your device
[15:54] <kikimeter> yes
[15:54] <holstein> meaning, your device is not supporting linux, or is broken, or is disabled..
[15:55] <kikimeter> I have already make my sound work last week
[15:55] <holstein> kikimeter: ok.. share *any* relevant information
[15:55] <holstein> kikimeter: what did you do to break it this week?
[15:55] <kikimeter> nothing special
[15:56] <holstein> kikimeter: ok.. then share *all* relevant information
[15:56] <holstein> kikimeter: otherwise, reinstall the OS, and dont break the audio
[15:56] <kikimeter> how can I help ubuntu to detec my sound card ?
[15:56] <kikimeter> lol
[15:56] <holstein> kikimeter: you can start by ansering me
[15:56] <holstein> answering*
[15:57] <kikimeter> yes sure
[15:57] <holstein> kikimeter: if it did work, and now it doesnt.. what did you do that broke it?
[15:57] <kikimeter> I dont know
[15:57] <kikimeter> nothing special
[15:57] <kikimeter> What can I say
[15:57] <holstein> kikimeter: im assuming (and you should test) that if you put the live CD in that you isntalled the OS from, the audio will work
[15:57] <kikimeter> yes
[15:57] <kikimeter> but i have installed ubuntu from minimal distribution
[15:57] <holstein> kikimeter: you can say what you did.. did you upgrade? add a PPA? change something? run a differnt user?
[15:57] <kikimeter> I install from realtek the driver
[15:58] <holstein> kikimeter: ubuntu is ubuntu.. if you installed from ..
[15:58] <kikimeter> and it works
[15:58] <holstein> !Mini
[15:58] <holstein> and added ubuntu-desktop, thats *is* ubuntu
[15:58] <holstein> if you didnt.. then, you need to get support from the distro you did insatll
[15:58] <holstein> kikimeter: the realtek driver doesnt need to be installed in ubuntu
[15:58] <kikimeter> thank you holstein
[15:58] <kikimeter> but I have install the driver
[15:58] <kikimeter> installed*
[15:59] <holstein> kikimeter: ok.. and thast what broke it? or fixed it last week?
[15:59] <kikimeter> maybe
[15:59] <holstein> kikimeter: ?
[15:59] <kikimeter> If I know what broke my sound
[15:59] <holstein> kikimeter: i need facts to help.. otherwise, download the iso from main ubuntu, and reinstall
[15:59] <kikimeter> I will not be here anoying you
[15:59] <holstein> kikimeter: im not annoyed.. i just need information to help you
[15:59] <kikimeter> can be more pragmatic
[16:00] <holstein> kikimeter: what did you install?
[16:00] <holstein> ubuntu mini 13.10 32bit?
[16:00] <holstein> then what?
[16:00] <kikimeter> see why my sound card is not detected
[16:00] <kikimeter> 64bit
[16:00] <holstein> ok.. so, ubuntu 13.10 mini iso 64 bit.. then what?
[16:00] <kikimeter> then unity
[16:00] <holstein> kikimeter: why?
[16:00] <kikimeter> and I download driver from realtek
[16:00] <holstein> kikimeter: why not "ubuntu-desktop" ?
[16:00] <kikimeter> mini.iso dont have unity
[16:00] <holstein> kikimeter: you dont need that driver from them
[16:00] <holstein> kikimeter: remove it, or get support from them
[16:01] <kikimeter> yes I know but this is what i've done
[16:01] <holstein> kikimeter: what you should have done is install "ubuntu-desktop"
[16:01] <holstein> kikimeter: so, try adding that.. that will pull in everything
[16:01] <holstein> otherwise, for you, i suggest trying the 13.10 (or at this point, 14.04) main ubuntu live CD.. test the audio. then, just install it
[16:01] <holstein> audio will just work "out of the box"
[16:02] <kikimeter> thank you hosltein
[16:02] <kikimeter> but it's not a solution: reinstall the os
[16:02] <holstein> kikimeter: for you, it is
[16:02] <kikimeter> i've made a mistake
[16:02] <holstein> kikimeter: since you dont know what you did, and you are using pacakges that arent from ubuntu
[16:03] <holstein> kikimeter: its the "best/easiest" for your situation
[16:03] <kikimeter> the solution is not reinstalling the os every time you make a mistake
[16:03] <holstein> kikimeter: otherwise.. when did audio start working?
[16:03] <holstein> kikimeter: you *didnt* install ubuntu, though
[16:03] <holstein> you did it incorrectly from minimal.. and now you have sistuiations that you cant explain to a volunteer
[16:04] <holstein> if you get normal ubuntu, and install it, it should "just work".. and you wont need to fix the audio
[16:04] <holstein> otherwise, i need details
[16:04] <kikimeter> that true, but when you have a OS, can you install a new sound card ?
[16:04] <holstein> when did you install what.. when did audio work.. when did it break.. etc
[16:04] <kikimeter> without reinstalling all the os
[16:04] <holstein> kikimeter: you dont need to
[16:04] <holstein> kikimeter: the kernel is modular
[16:04] <holstein> kikimeter: the drivers are just in it. when you add a device, they "just work".. typically
[16:05] <kikimeter> ok holstein, thank you for your advices
[16:05] <holstein> kikimeter: i do whatever it takes to "add a card".. which is usually just plugging it in
[16:05] <holstein> kikimeter: but, if a device doesnt work, i test with a live CD.. or a supported OS to make sure its functioning properly, and turned on in the bios
[16:06] <holstein> then, i'll go from there with support from the kernel and alsa
[16:06] <kikimeter> it works with a live cd
[16:06] <holstein> kikimeter: ok
[16:06] <kikimeter> for no reason
[16:06] <holstein> kikimeter: then, whatever you have done, you have broken the sound in your installation, which may or may not be ubuntu by noe
[16:06] <kikimeter> or no reason I understand
[16:06] <kikimeter> my sound card is not detected
[16:06] <kikimeter> that it
[16:06] <holstein> kikimeter: the reason is, you didnt install correctly
[16:06] <kikimeter> no
[16:06] <kikimeter> I've installed and it works
[16:07] <holstein> kikimeter: what would i do? remove whatever you installed, and install "ubuntu-desktop" and test
[16:07] <kikimeter> after I did something
[16:07] <kikimeter> and after it doesn't work that it
[16:07] <kikimeter> :(
[16:07] <holstein> kikimeter: what did you do to get it to work from the live CD?
[16:07] <holstein> nothing..
[16:07] <holstein> kikimeter: installing "ubuntu-desktop" pulls in more.. more than just unity
[16:08] <holstein> unity may not pull in everything.. and the pacakge from realtek may have broken something as well
[16:08] <holstein> kikimeter: so, have you installed "ubuntu-desktop" ?
[16:09] <kikimeter> sudo apt-get update
[16:09] <kikimeter> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[16:09] <kikimeter> after my installation
[16:09] <kikimeter> the two command I've done
[16:09] <kikimeter> so yes
[16:09] <holstein> kikimeter: and?
[16:09] <kikimeter> I installed some softwares
[16:10] <holstein> kikimeter: you stated above "unity". not "ubuntu-desktop"
[16:10] <kikimeter> like firefox, vlc etc
[16:10] <holstein> which did you do? and when? and when did the audio work?
[16:10] <holstein> and when did it break?
[16:10] <kikimeter> I start a sound gui (maybe alsamixergui) or soomething like that
[16:10] <holstein> kikimeter: maybe?
[16:11] <cfhowlett> !beer|holstein, cuz you've earned it!
[16:11] <holstein> when did you start what *exactly*?
[16:11] <kikimeter> I dont remember
[16:11] <holstein> cfhowlett: ;)
[16:11] <kikimeter> it's two week ago
[16:11] <holstein> kikimeter: you need to.. or its irrelevant
[16:11] <holstein> kikimeter: ok.. when did the audio work?
[16:11] <kikimeter> let check my history
[16:12] <kikimeter> yes Rt linux driver audio break my audio
[16:13] <holstein> kikimeter: ok. you shouldnt need it, and we dont supply or support it
[16:13] <kikimeter> no problem
[16:13] <holstein> so, you will either remove/purge it, and have your audio back, (theoretically) or go to them for support
[16:13] <kikimeter> here the pastebin
[16:13] <kikimeter> http://pastebin.com/Lbx6FURN
[16:13] <holstein> kikimeter: so, audio was working? then you installed an audio driver? and it broke the audio?
[16:14] <kikimeter> cd alsa-driver-1.0.25/
[16:14] <kikimeter> doesnt work so i've try
[16:14] <holstein> kikimeter: thats plausible.. that package could be old.. and its really not neccessary for your installation..
[16:14] <kikimeter> cd Rt-Linux-HDaudio-5.18/
[16:14] <kikimeter> and cd alsa-driver-RTv5.18/
[16:14] <kikimeter> the last one works If my remembers are good
[16:14] <holstein> kikimeter: what you should do is, use the packages from the repos, that, as you report, work from the live CD, and from the fresh install before you installed the RT driver
[16:14] <kikimeter> come one holstein
[16:15] <holstein> kikimeter: ?
[16:15] <kikimeter> why people are noob ?
[16:15] <kikimeter> because I dont know
[16:15] <kikimeter> I'm learning
[16:15] <holstein> kikimeter: sure.. so, now you know
[16:15] <kikimeter> so stop saying why I have done this
[16:15] <kikimeter> why
[16:15] <kikimeter> I dont know
[16:15] <kikimeter> I work on mac
[16:15] <kikimeter> I leave windows for my desktop for ubuntu
[16:15] <holstein> ok.. thats great.. its actually quite similar
[16:16] <kikimeter> when something doesnt work (it was this for my sound)
[16:16] <holstein> you dont go and download drivers and install them into macOSX often
[16:16] <kikimeter> i go on google
[16:16] <kikimeter> and I try some solution
[16:16] <holstein> its the norm that the drivers in the kernel just work. as they did for you
[16:16] <holstein> kikimeter: sure, but audio was working. and is working from the live CD
[16:16] <kikimeter> yes
[16:16] <kikimeter> but I have 6 outputs on my motherboard
[16:17] <holstein> kikimeter: that may never work
[16:17] <kikimeter> and I think I miss the good output
[16:17] <kikimeter> or my sound was just mute
[16:17] <holstein> kikimeter: no
[16:17] <kikimeter> I dont know
[16:17] <holstein> kikimeter: i do
[16:17] <holstein> kikimeter: that 6 output device may not fully support linux
[16:17] <holstein> but, you should consider using it "as-is" when its working as it is in the default os
[16:18] <kikimeter> yes
[16:18] <holstein> dont install RT drivers to try and address that
[16:18] <kikimeter> If my sound was working
[16:18] <holstein> kikimeter: it was, you said it was.. and it is from a live CD
[16:18] <kikimeter> i didn't install new drivers
[16:18] <kikimeter> livecd yes
[16:18] <holstein> kikimeter: ok
[16:18] <holstein> kikimeter: you said you installed drivers from the RT site
[16:18] <kikimeter> but after minimal install no
[16:19] <holstein> kikimeter: right.. *dont* do the minimal
[16:19] <holstein> kikimeter: you need the full live installer
[16:19] <kikimeter> look the pastebin, all the command I've done are in here
[16:19] <holstein> kikimeter: the minimal is not for folks who are new to linux
[16:19] <kikimeter> yes but the best way to learn it to install from minimal
[16:19] <holstein> kikimeter: no
[16:19] <kikimeter> and try and learn
[16:19] <holstein> kikimeter: no its not
[16:19] <kikimeter> for me I would say yes
[16:19] <kikimeter> but ok
[16:20] <kikimeter> holstein I waste your time
[16:20] <kikimeter> thank you for the help
[16:20] <holstein> kikimeter: thats the best way to do what it does. .. insatll minimal, thatas it.. its for quick install.. like a net install
[16:20] <holstein> the mini is not a learning tool
[16:20] <kikimeter> I will try some vodoo incantations and some old RT driver :)
[16:20] <kikimeter> if it doesnt work
[16:20] <kikimeter> I will reinstall from livecd
[16:20] <holstein> kikimeter: ok.. enjoy!
[16:20] <cfhowlett> !voodoo
[16:20] <cfhowlett> I had to check
[16:20] <holstein> kikimeter: as RT for support for the driver they provide
[16:20] <kikimeter> lol
[16:21] <holstein> sounds like a plan
[16:21] <kikimeter> if I can find the ALC892 driver on their web site
[16:21] <kikimeter> It would be a good start
[16:21] <kikimeter> but this web site is crap
[16:21] <holstein> i disagree
[16:21] <holstein> the drivers are in the kernel
[16:21] <holstein> you are trying to add 6 outs.. and that may *neverr* happen with that card
[16:21] <kikimeter> for all the sound card ?
[16:22] <holstein> you were not promised linux support for that device when you purchased it
[16:22] <kikimeter> no but the p8z77 is a very popular motherboard
[16:22] <holstein> might be that the baked in driver into the kernel is the best option... and usually is.. just like in macOSX
[16:22] <holstein> kikimeter: so
[16:22] <holstein> kikimeter: i didnt reference a popularity level
[16:22] <holstein> kikimeter: i said "supporting linux".. and it didnt promise you that
[16:23] <kikimeter> do you have a link to learn how kernel and driver work ?
[16:23] <holstein> kikimeter: the manufacturer did not promise you 6 output support from linux
[16:23] <cfhowlett> popular doesn't equal OEM linux suppport
[16:23] <kikimeter> yes yes
[16:23] <kikimeter> but that say that a lot of people have try before me
[16:24] <kikimeter> thank you guys
[16:24] <holstein> kikimeter: sure.. lots of folks just use stereo
[16:24] <holstein> kikimeter: this would be *just* like taking an audio device like that to macOSX
[16:24] <kikimeter> I have a 7.1 waiting
[16:25] <holstein> if it works, it'll typically just work, out of the box.. if it doesnt.. you ask the vendor.. they say "we dont support OSX" and appls says "...."
[16:28] <kikimeter> I have to audio soundcard too
[16:28] <kikimeter> :)
[16:28] <kikimeter> 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
[16:28] <kikimeter> 02:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Barts HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 6800 Series]
[16:28] <holstein> hdmi can be problematic as well
[16:28] <kikimeter> yes
[16:29] <holstein> but, a live CD is easy to test
[16:29] <kikimeter> I've installed video card driver
[16:29] <holstein> kikimeter: that can help.. but, doesnt have to
[16:29] <kikimeter> my sound card is detected
[16:30] <kikimeter> my driver are not good
[16:30] <holstein> kikimeter: the fact is, you were not promised linux support
[16:30] <holstein> kikimeter: so, you may not be able to get linux support.. though, more and more are working well these days
[16:30] <holstein> there is a PPA that the steam community suggests
[16:30] <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
[16:31] <holstein> that can help provide the latest support for video hardware
[16:32] <kikimeter> my video driver are good
[16:32] <kikimeter> all works find
[16:32] <kikimeter> fine*
[16:33] <kikimeter> Oo I'm on a 3.11.0 kernel
[16:33] <kikimeter> I've installed the bad driver from realtek
[16:33] <kikimeter> :(
[16:35] <holstein> the "Best" drivers are usually already available to you
[16:35] <holstein> just baked into the kernel
[16:36] <holstein> the sites are usually just far enough beind to release a driver that is for ubuntu 10.04, at best
[16:36] <holstein> *and*, it doesnt help, or fix anything.. or provide added funcitonality
[16:36] <kikimeter> but for know the driver are not installed
[16:36] <holstein> kikimeter: to konw they dont *need* to be installed
[16:37] <holstein> to know the best drivers are already in the kernel
[16:37] <kikimeter> it's possible to remove a driver when an upgrade go wrong no ?
[16:37] <kikimeter> or that just impossible ?
[16:37] <kikimeter> it's for my understanding
[16:40] <holstein> kikimeter: you would ask the driver manufacturer
[16:41] <holstein> kikimeter: they should provide an uninstall.. but, its not mine, and i dont have any experience with it, and have not been invited to participate openly with its support
[16:41] <holstein> kikimeter: you would need to reinstall the driver each time, which is something that could have happened, and you are not able to tell me
[16:42] <holstein> you could have added the realtek driver, and ungraded the kernel, and the kernel doenst have the driver anymore
[16:42] <holstein> you would then, reinstall the driver from realtek..
[16:42] <holstein> and i would have assumed you would have already tried that, and not suggested it
[16:42] <kikimeter> I will just start by install the good driver from realtek
[16:42] <kikimeter> after I will reinstall my ubuntu
[16:43] <kikimeter> if it doesn't work
[16:43] <kikimeter> do you have any tip to test if my sound work from my sound card ?
[16:43] <holstein> sure.. but, its not "good"
[16:43] <kikimeter> and avoid to miss the good output
[16:43] <holstein> its just the 3rd party, non supported one that you may or may not prefer
[16:43] <holstein> kikimeter: i have alreayd given you *all* the tips
[16:44] <holstein> !audio | kikimeter j
[16:44] <holstein> test with live CD's or supported operating systems to see that the device is funcitoning and on
[16:44] <kikimeter> thank you
[16:44] <holstein> if you upgrade the kernel, that driver *will* break
[16:44] <holstein> its desigend that way
[16:44] <holstein> designed*
[16:45] <holstein> you reinstall it each time, or pin the kernel, or upgrade,a nd boot the older kernel.. or do something manual on your own.. or ask RT what to do with the product they provide
[16:46] <kikimeter> that work with the reinstallation of the driver
[16:46] <holstein> sure.. thats what all my questions were about earlier
[16:46] <kikimeter> from relatek web site
[16:46] <kikimeter> thank you
[16:46] <holstein> "i installed the driver, and everything was fine, then, i upgraded my kernel and audio broke".. thats what i needed
[16:48] <kikimeter> from me ?
[16:48] <kikimeter> but that not what happend
[16:48] <holstein> kikimeter: correct
[16:48] <kikimeter> I think my driver was not installed
[16:48] <holstein> kikimeter: you dont know what happened..
[16:48] <kikimeter> I donwload the driver for the bad kernel
[16:48] <kikimeter> install it
[16:48] <holstein> kikimeter: how about this.. if you have the driver break again, try reinstalling it...
[16:48] <kikimeter> break my driver
[16:48] <kikimeter> that it
[16:49] <kikimeter> I juste have to reinstall my driver from realtek for the good kernel
[16:49] <kikimeter> as simple as that
[16:49] <kikimeter> no need to reinstall all the os
[16:49] <holstein> right
[16:49] <holstein> kikimeter: im saying, reinstall the driver, friend
[16:50] <kikimeter> at the end yes
[16:50] <holstein> kikimeter: what i see that happened is, you installed a driver for the kernel, then, upgraded the kernel
[16:50] <kikimeter> your first advice was not : reinstall the driver
[16:50] <holstein> kikimeter: you are calling it the "bad" kernel.. or whatever
[16:50] <kikimeter> yes
[16:50] <holstein> kikimeter: right.. becuase you didnt tell me what broke what
[16:50] <holstein> kikimeter: and im not interested in debating
[16:50] <kikimeter> because i didnt know
[16:50] <holstein> kikimeter: im glad you have it all sorted
[16:50] <kikimeter> :)
[16:50] <kikimeter> thank you
[16:51] <holstein> and in the future, try reinstalling the driver.. since the kernel *will* get upgraded
[17:07] <lostuser7> Is there a dev channel for Ubuntu Studio?
[17:15] <holstein> lostuser7: yes
[17:15] <holstein>  /j #ubuntustudio-devel
[18:34] <k1mmyyy> hi all, i'm following an ardour tutorial and they want me to use puredata to make a test tone to route to ardour
[18:34] <holstein> what are you trying to do?
[18:34] <holstein> test audio?
[18:34] <k1mmyyy> but the version that comes with ubuntu studio seems to not have the "test audio and midi" function
[18:34] <k1mmyyy> yep
[18:34] <holstein> k1mmyyy: ok.. so, dont use pd
[18:35] <holstein> k1mmyyy: what are you trying to test? midi?
[18:35] <k1mmyyy> holstein, at all?
[18:35] <k1mmyyy> holstein, just practice routing, really
[18:35] <holstein> just fire up something like yoshimi that is easy, and well supported
[18:35] <holstein> it can be routed, audio and midi
[18:36] <k1mmyyy> i guess... it's just annoying that ubuntu studio ships with PD but it doesn't really work
[18:36] <k1mmyyy> i think it needs puredata-extended
[18:36] <holstein> k1mmyyy: i dont use it
[18:36] <holstein> k1mmyyy: if youd like to help test, im sure that would be appreciated
[18:36] <holstein> k1mmyyy: if you want to test audio and routing you dont need PD to do that
[18:38] <k1mmyyy> holstein, hmmmm
[18:38] <k1mmyyy> well
[18:38] <k1mmyyy> it seems to be this file testtone.pd
[18:38] <k1mmyyy> ideally i can find that online and then just throw it in the folder with all the other .pd's it comes with
[18:38] <holstein> sure
[18:39] <holstein> k1mmyyy: you would have to ask in puredata support channels.. i would also try #opensourcemusicians
[18:39] <k1mmyyy> alternatively i've just found pd-extended on their website
[18:39] <holstein> otherwise, if you want to test audio/midi/and routing, you can use yoshimi
[18:39] <holstein> its easy, and works "out of the box"
[18:39] <holstein> nothing about pd is "easy"
[18:39] <k1mmyyy> holstein, alright alright, it's in the repos?
[18:40] <k1mmyyy> ah it appears i already have it
[18:40] <holstein> k1mmyyy: its included, and works well "out of the box".. click and run.. jack support..
[18:44] <k1mmyyy> holstein, yep seems to be
[18:44] <k1mmyyy> alright lemme try it!
[18:44] <holstein> k1mmyyy: i know there are a few PD users in #opensourcemusians ..and maybe #ardour
[18:44] <holstein> if you are interested in that.. but, i would start with the simple things
[18:45] <k1mmyyy> holstein, yeah, lemme try yoshimi
[18:45] <holstein> no need to learn PD *and* all about jack and routing at the same time
[18:45] <holstein> if you need it though, there really is nothing like PD
[18:46] <k1mmyyy> holstein, i mean from the tutorial it seemed reallllly simple, like you connect it to jack and hit that test button, and it just produces a tone
[18:46] <k1mmyyy> so no learning really
[18:46] <k1mmyyy> anyway
[18:46] <k1mmyyy> i have yoshimi
[18:47] <holstein> k1mmyyy: you can ask in the #ardour channel about the tutorials they make
[18:48] <holstein> otherwise, nothing about pd has been "easy" or "simple".. and its never been suggested as easy or simple by the folks i know who use it
[18:48] <k1mmyyy> holstein, alright, so yoshimi has shown up in jack's connections box
[18:49] <k1mmyyy> is it automatically connected to it?
[18:49] <holstein> cool.. route it as needed. also, the nice thing about yoshimi is, it has a virtual keyboard
[18:49] <holstein> k1mmyyy: even if/when things auto connect, i confirm
[18:49] <k1mmyyy> hmmm how do i confirm it? i went to the jack tab under settings, it just says default
[18:50] <holstein> what would i do? isolate and test.. route audio from yoshimi in jack.. test audio with integrated virtual keyboard
[18:50] <holstein> then, route whatever i need from ardour, some midi file or track, or whatever.. and try and get that to send data to yoshime
[18:50] <holstein> yoshimi*
[18:51] <holstein> i dont use ardour's connections panel, though, i have heard its nice
[18:51] <holstein> you can ask about it in #ardour
[18:51] <holstein> i use "connect" in qjackctl to connect whatever i want where ever i need. but, there are many tools to do that with now.. lots of GUI's for it
[18:51] <k1mmyyy> Hmmm
[18:51] <k1mmyyy> yeah
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> right now i just connected yoshimi to my speakers
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> cause i wanted to hear it
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> why are my speakers off by default? is it because i killed pulseaudio?
[18:52] <holstein> yup.. then, you dont have to wonder "is yoshimi even connected to audio,a nd making sound"
[18:52] <holstein> you can then troubleshoot knowing yoshimi is connected properly for audio
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> ayeet
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> hmm
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> okay
[18:52] <k1mmyyy> lemme try
[18:52] <holstein> k1mmyyy: i dont konw what yoru setup is like.. and you shouldnt "kill pulseaudio"
[18:53] <holstein> you can just disable the dbus, if you like
[18:53] <holstein> its in the qjackctl settings.. under the misc tab
[18:53] <k1mmyyy> holstein, well multiple people have told me that pulseaudio will conflict with things
[18:53] <holstein> k1mmyyy: it doesnt
[18:53] <k1mmyyy> hmm.
[18:53] <holstein> k1mmyyy: you can do what you like, but, you dont kill pulse like that
[18:53] <k1mmyyy> well i did pulseaudio --kill
[18:53] <holstein> k1mmyyy: you would disable the dbus, and use JACK without the included dbus that is integrating pulse with jack
[18:53] <k1mmyyy> Hmmm
[18:53] <holstein> k1mmyyy: ok.. *dont* do that
[18:53] <k1mmyyy> hahah
[18:53] <k1mmyyy> okay
[18:54] <holstein> k1mmyyy: it likely just respawned pulse
[18:54] <k1mmyyy> holstein, i set autospawn to off
[18:54] <k1mmyyy> but i can undo it
[18:54] <holstein> k1mmyyy: what do i suggest? go do the misc tab, disable the dbus, and just use JACK
[18:54] <k1mmyyy> holstein, hmmm, okay...to be honesty i don't *really* know what dbus does...
[18:55] <holstein> nothing about pulse breaks or bothers anything for me
[18:55] <holstein> you can always purge it commpletely, if you want. .but, i suggest actually encourtering an issue, then acting on it
[18:55] <holstein> k1mmyyy: the dbus makes pulse integrate into JACK
[18:55] <holstein> k1mmyyy: we have code that, makes pulse sink with JACK.. by default
[18:56] <k1mmyyy> hmmmm
[18:56] <k1mmyyy> yeah i notice that if i search ps aux | grep jack, jackdbus is running
[18:57] <holstein> right.. you'll need to restart it with the GUI.. assuming you are using the GUI
[18:57] <k1mmyyy> Yeah
[18:57] <k1mmyyy> okay
[18:57] <k1mmyyy> so you think restart pulse, turn autospawn back on, just disable dbus?
[18:57] <k1mmyyy> within qjackctl
[18:57] <holstein> i click "qjackctl" from the menu.. i disable the dbus.. i use JACK.. i have no issue with pulse, or a reason to address, kill or otherwise notice pulse when using JACK
[18:58] <k1mmyyy> alright
[18:58] <holstein> k1mmyyy: i dont think there is any reason to mess with pulse, at all
[18:58] <holstein> k1mmyyy: you didnt have any problems with it
[18:58] <k1mmyyy> sorry it's just hard when you're starting this stuff and you don't really know what to do, and all these tutorials say things
[18:58] <holstein> i dont.. no one does anymore
[18:58] <holstein> if you want to get rid of it, do so
[18:58] <k1mmyyy> it's hard to know what's right and not
[18:58] <holstein> k1mmyyy: well, theres what you need, and what works for you, and your hardware
[18:58] <holstein> k1mmyyy: not really a "right/wrong" thing
[18:59] <holstein> if you find, for some reason, pulse is casuing issues.. purge it
[18:59] <holstein> but, killing it like that, with our dbus still running.. i dont think thats going to work.. though, i havent tried it first hand
[19:06] <k1mmyyy> holstein, oooh, yoshimi worked so easily
[19:06] <k1mmyyy> routed it to ardour
[19:08] <holstein> yeah, its an easy way to get a handle on routing
[19:08] <holstein> and, routing most anything will be similar
[19:09] <holstein> k1mmyyy: if you are tyring to control it from a USB keyboard, you may need "a2jmidid -e" from a terminal
[19:12] <k1mmyyy> hmmm
[19:12] <k1mmyyy> some keys already work
[19:19] <holstein> well, it'll be all or nothing
[19:19] <k1mmyyy> Hmmm strange
[21:00] <delt> hello
[21:00] <delt> well, replaced my power supply and motherboard, still having problems with my midi keyboard over usb
[21:01] <delt> similar board (also an asus), and exact same errors/problems
[21:01] <delt> so that pretty much rules out the possibility of a hardware fault
[21:02] <delt> the mobo comes with a CD, it contains a file LinuxDrivers/readme.txt which contains: Note: Please update to the latest Linux Kernel for motherboard chipset and components support.
[22:15] <holstein> delt: its probably more appropriate to chat here about your keyboard
[22:16] <holstein> the issue is, as i see it, you are jumping around a bit.. try the unit on an officially supported platform, or a live CD that you *know* supported the hardware well
[22:16] <holstein> try it on another machine or 2
[22:16] <holstein> you should be able to tell where the issue is through troubleshooting while removing things from the equation, and seeing what issues are still there
[22:17] <holstein> i wouldnt be bothered by some kernel "Messages"
[22:17] <holstein> i would expect those, and ignore them
[22:28] <delt> holstein: i told you already, the keyboard works 100% fine on my laptop running ubuntu 13.10
[22:29] <delt> oh you mean on the desktop machine, but like, windows or something?
[22:29] <delt> yeah this motherboard is kind of "recent" so i guess full support for the USB hardware hasn't made it into the linux kernel yet
[22:30] <delt> anyway, i read on a forum that only the 64bit kernel supported certain USB stuff, downloading it now... in the mean time i'll see if i can find a windowz cd somewhere..
[22:55] <k1mmyyy> hey guys i'm trying to get Vkeybd to connect to aeolus through jack. aeolus is showing up in the midi tab of connect in qjackctl, but vkeybd isn't... i have the "midi driver" set to "raw" in the setup of qjackctl
[22:55] <k1mmyyy> any ideas?
[23:07] <delt> oops sorry
[23:33] <delt> is gparted included (and usable) on the livedisc?


[17:30]  * wrst wonders if Omnifrog is out planting or weeding or whatever he does
[17:34] <Omnifrog> actually I just came in for lunch a bit ago !
[17:34] <Omnifrog> I've been building pretend fences today
[17:35] <wrst> Omnifrog: pretend fences?
[17:36] <Omnifrog> yeah, heh.
[17:37] <Omnifrog> They are just bamboo poles and string but to the deer they look like fences
[17:55] <wrst> if it works it works
[18:05] <wrst> afternoon chris4585
[18:10] <chris4585> hey wrst
[18:13] <wrst> how are you doing?
[18:24] <chris4585> wrst, I'm alright, you?
[18:24] <wrst> doing pretty well
[18:48] <chris4585> nice


[10:20] <olem> Hi everyone.
[10:21] <olem> is there some activities relating to ubuntu-directory? I saw few activity in the mailing list archive
[10:21] <olem> is there any plans to work towards some jobs for next release?
[10:41] <Burgundavia> olem: sort of
[10:41] <Burgundavia> ajmitch is working on fds and his too
[10:41] <olem> ?
[10:41] <Burgundavia> tool
[10:41] <olem> fds, you mean Fedory Directory Server?
[10:42] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:43] <olem> is there any blueprint/mail explaining what is undergoing (an how could we help) ?
[10:46] <Burgundavia> for the fds stuff, I believe it is in bzr
[10:46] <Burgundavia> are you familiar with packaging?
[10:47] <olem> familliar... well, I'm rather a newbie with debian packages (have done a couple of, for internal usage). But, who live, will learn.
[10:47] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:48] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[10:49] <Burgundavia> https://code.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/
[10:49] <Burgundavia> there are ajmitch's bzr branches
[10:50] <Burgundavia> the bottom is the bzr branch for the authtool, a tool to make it easy to auth Ubuntu machines again LDAP servers
[10:51] <olem> ok. I'm gonna have it a look (and familiarize myself with bzr too - accustomed to cvs/svn for now)
[10:51] <olem> th
[10:51] <olem> x
[10:51] <Burgundavia> no worries
[10:51] <Burgundavia> I have to run now


[02:41] <waltman> Do I really need to reboot every time Ubuntu tells me to? Because it's getting to be several times a week.
[02:55] <waltman> hmm, maybe it was the systemd update on february 23...
[10:52] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else


 Suddenly I'm looking at Bing.
[13:50] <cmaloney> Wonder how much "Traffic" they get that way.
[14:10] <jrwren> change your default search engine to DDG
[14:20] <cmaloney> jrwren: Would that it didn't require a PHD in IE I would.
[14:21] <jrwren> go to duckduckgo.com
[14:21] <jrwren> press alt-t, o
[14:21] <jrwren> click the "use current page" button
[14:22] <jrwren> they may have broken alt-t, o in IE>9 :(
[14:52] <cmaloney> How does one use it for the address bar?
[14:54] <cmaloney> Gah, what a pain in the ass
[14:55] <cmaloney> DuckDuckGo is quite nice.
[15:09] <mthx|server> +1 DDG
[15:15] <jrwren> <3 DDG
[15:16] <cmaloney> Got to love a note from your wife asking if Russell and Bertrand were really the genesis of modern computing.
[15:17] <cmaloney> s/Bertrand/Whitehead/
[15:18] <jrwren> who?
[15:25] <jrwren> i requested a DDG feature and it was implemented and rolled to production in a few weeks.
[15:25] <jrwren> pretty sweet.
[15:34] <cmaloney> jrwren: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/principia-mathematica/
[16:06] <cmaloney> Nice! Had someone just send me an album via Bandcamp as a gift.
[16:06] <cmaloney> for Open Metalcast.
[16:11] <_stink_> nice!
[17:04] <cmaloney> Yeah, kind of unexpected.
[18:03] <jrwren> cmaloney: you sold out. :]
[18:03] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'm no longer punk
[18:03] <cmaloney> oh, wait.
[18:03] <cmaloney> I never was. ;)


[02:51] <teward> gg0, if someone approves the nominations on bug #1266088 and bug #1266089 I'll maybe take a stab at it, but I have more important stuff on my list of things to do, like find a source of income since I don't have a job anymore :/
[02:53] <teward> gg0, I'm going to be ignoring my nginx bug triaging too for a few days.
[13:10] <gg0> teward: no problem
[13:11] <gg0> could anyone please fix them on T at least?
[13:12] <gg0> (supposing backporting requires more time/priviledges)


[08:59] <ehsan> hi
[08:59] <ehsan> can anybody help me about Ubuntu
[08:59] <ehsan> ?
[08:59] <ehsan> please
[13:24] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[13:27] <bregma> the weather continues to be soft here
[13:32] <BluesKaj> yeah, muggy and cloudy here ..supposed to clear up later
[21:12] <bregma> Friday evening of the May Two Four weekend
[21:12] <bregma> waiting for my son's school bus, watching the parade of trunks pulling boats turning down to the lake
[21:13] <bregma> we'll be raising a lot of funds next week collecting empties from the ditches
[21:21] <bregma> this is the worst weekend for living in cottage country
[21:23] <genii-around> Runs at the store for bottled water, beer, and fireworks....
[21:24]  * dscassel runs out to get Union Jacks, bunding and Rule Brittannia remixes.
[21:24] <SIR_Taco> trick is to get to the store before the beer line-up gets too long with the tourists :)
[21:24] <dscassel> er, bunting. :P
[21:25] <genii-around> Cottage talk reminds me that I need to renew my fishing license
[21:27] <bregma> too bad you can't just scrape 'em off the road the way you can with deer
[21:28] <SIR_Taco> bregma: haha
[21:33] <SIR_Taco> I heard explosives have the same affect.... not that it's legal
[21:37] <BluesKaj> CIL wobblers


[03:22] <mup> Bug #1684343 opened: For candicate release is appearing on dragonboard the message "ERROR hal_remove_bsskey response failed err" <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684343>
[03:22] <mup> PR snapcraft#1266 closed: tests: report coverage only in unit tests <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1266>
[06:18] <zyga> good morning
[06:21] <koza> hey
[07:09] <mup> PR snapd#3201 closed: interfaces: re-add reverted ioctl and quotactl (revert 21bc6b9f) <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3201>
[07:12] <zyga> hey mvo, how are you doing today?
[07:12] <mup> PR snapd#3206 closed: [2.24] Add maintscript helper to remove usr.lib.snapd.snap-confine in snap-confine <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3206>
[07:12] <mup> PR snapd#3210 closed: [2.24] tests: relax network-bind interface regexps <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3210>
[07:12] <mvo> hey zyga! I'm doing fine, how are you?
[07:13] <zyga> mvo: good, 3rd night in the tent now :) I used a sleeping bag this time, had a full night sleep for the first time (earlier I would wake up as it's not that warm at night yet) :-)
[07:13] <zyga> mvo: doing reviews, then will jump into a problem I didn't solve last evening
[07:14] <mvo> zyga: tent> fun!
[07:26] <zyga> pstolowski: commented on the disconnect PR, have look please
[07:26] <pstolowski> zyga, sure, thanks
[07:31] <pstolowski> zyga, and i commented on 3208
[07:32] <zyga> pstolowski: repliiied
[07:33] <pstolowski> zyga, very good point about new snapd running old tasks, thanks!
[07:33] <zyga> pstolowski: my suggestion would be a patch that converts such a task to the new configuration
[07:33] <zyga> pstolowski: but that's not without issues itself
[07:34] <zyga> pstolowski: though unlike other patches it would not need to be undone
[07:34] <zyga> pstolowski: as old snapd can handle that too
[07:34] <pstolowski> let's create a forum topic maybe
[07:34] <zyga> OK
[07:36] <pstolowski> actually existing topic is fine for that
[07:56] <mvo> pstolowski: looks like 3070 has a open question from gustavo - is that addressed? if so, I think the PR is good to go
[07:56] <mup> PR snapd#3207 closed: tests: relax network-bind interface regexps <Created by mvo5> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3207>
[07:59] <pstolowski> mvo, thanks, if you mean the comment re having a test for revert case, than yes, it's addressed, i've just added a comment
[08:00] <mvo> pstolowski: great, thank you.
[08:00] <mvo> pstolowski: it looekd addressed to me but I wanted to double check :)
[08:02] <mup> PR snapd#3070 closed: overlord: maintain per-revision snapshots of snap configuration <Created by stolowski> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3070>
[08:06] <Chipaca> good morning!
[08:07] <zyga> Chipaca: good morning, how are you feeling?
[08:07]  * Chipaca is back from the dead
[08:07] <Chipaca> zyga— no fever today, but something is still up
[08:07] <Chipaca> as if my vision had lag
[08:08] <mwhudson> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapcraft-autopkgktest-failure-in-zesty/337 oh god
[08:09] <Chipaca> can we tell it >= instead of =?
[08:10] <Chipaca> no, we can't ("E: Unable to locate package hello>")
[08:13] <pstolowski> do we actually need to specify version number there?
[08:13] <mwhudson> you could make a dummy package that depended on hello (>= whatever)
[08:13] <mwhudson> and install that
[08:14] <mwhudson> sbuild and pbuilder both have helpers for that iirc
[08:14] <mwhudson> bit of a run around though
[08:21] <morphis_> mwhudson: hey! if you didn't saw it yet: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3156
[08:21] <mup> PR snapd#3156: many: support debian in our CI <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3156>
[08:34] <mwhudson> morphis_: nice
[08:34] <morphis_> mwhudson: its close to be ready, just three remaining tests I need to debug
[08:34] <morphis_> mwhudson: btw. are there any big differences in the debian packaging bits to what we have in the snapd tree?
[08:35] <mwhudson> morphis_: well the devendoring is the big thing i guess?
[08:35] <mwhudson> otherwise, no not really i think
[08:35]  * mwhudson is not here btw
[08:35] <morphis_> mwhudson: you mean you have individual deb packages in debian for each golang package snapd uses
[08:36] <morphis_> mwhudson: ah :-)
[08:36] <mvo> morphis_: 3177 has a unit test failure it seems (just in case you have not seen it already)
[08:40] <pstolowski> Chipaca, is https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1660970 going to be covered by your tab-completion work?
[08:40] <mup> Bug #1660970: snap info could autocomplete against installed snaps <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660970>
[08:43] <morphis_> mvo: yeah, thanks, already looking into that one
[08:43] <Chipaca> pstolowski— umm
[08:43] <Chipaca> pstolowski— so, no
[08:44] <morphis_> mvo: looks like something broke after my last rebase on master
[08:44] <Chipaca> but let me read the bug; it's probably invalid, at least as stated in the title
[08:46] <Chipaca> pstolowski— i can fix this easily :-)
[08:47] <pstolowski> Chipaca, :) cool
[08:47] <renat> Hi! It's Renat from Screenly=) I have another question to you=)
[08:48] <zyga> hey renat
[08:48] <renat> We configured auto-connection for our snap almost successfully, but dbus plugs and slots don't connect automatically to each other=(
[08:49] <renat> Let me post here our snap config
[08:49] <zyga> to each other where? in one snap?
[08:50] <renat> zyga, yes
[08:50] <renat> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24419051/
[08:52] <zyga> renat: not sure why yet BUT, if you use core from the edge channel then each auto-connect logs why it doens't do something
[08:52] <zyga> renat: so you could install your snap and just read the message
[08:53] <renat> I will try, thanks!
[09:03] <Chipaca> zyga— is there any reason why 'snap interfaces' isn't completing? (i mean one level up from "because the code isn't written")
[09:05] <zyga> Chipaca: no
[09:05] <Chipaca> zyga— same question but about disconnect, now :-)
[09:05] <zyga> Chipaca: also completion for connect is not as smart as I wish it was
[09:05] <zyga> Chipaca: same answer :)
[09:05] <Chipaca> zyga— oh? tell me more
[09:05] <zyga> I think connect was a proof of concept
[09:05] <zyga> and that was just merged but I didn't iterate
[09:05] <Chipaca> ah
[09:05] <zyga> if you look at connect, it's really dumb
[09:05] <zyga> what it should really do
[09:05] <zyga> is complete only those that you can connect in practice
[09:06]  * zyga is stuck at a harder part of update-ns
[09:07] <Chipaca> zyga— how can you know what you can connect?
[09:07] <zyga> I think I will break for a moment and do something else, explore the easier parts again and write spread tests
[09:07] <zyga> Chipaca: well, the interfaces must match
[09:07] <Chipaca> zyga— oh you mean for the second argument?
[09:07] <zyga> Chipaca: but also you need to see that something can have more than one connection at a time
[09:07] <zyga> Chipaca: and when you factor in hooks it's even more interesting
[09:07] <Chipaca> right now the second arg doesn't complete at all
[09:07] <zyga> Chipaca: yes
[09:08] <zyga> Chipaca: anyway, look at it and think, I'm sure you will come up with a more complete picture than my rusty memory
[09:08] <Chipaca> grmbl
[09:10] <Chipaca> zyga— I'll start with the simpler stuff :-)
[09:17] <icey> any ideas why suddenly I have `Issues while validating snapcraft.yaml: snapcraft validation file is missing from installation path`
[09:17] <icey> well, with apt or source, snap seems to work fine :)
[09:18] <mup> Bug #1684525 opened: panic: assignment to entry in nil map <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684525>
[09:29] <Chipaca> zyga— ^ that backtrace talks about content interface
[09:29] <zyga> Chipaca: I fixed that yesterday
[09:29] <Chipaca> :-)
[09:33] <wligtenberg> I need to log into a webex meeting, I know it can be a pain to set up on ubuntu 16.04 64 bit. Would it be possible to create a snap with firefox and the correct java packages so that everything will just work? It should also connect to webcam and sound. What would the difficulty level be?
[09:33] <zyga> wligtenberg: after a firefox snap exists, not high
[09:33] <zyga> wligtenberg: before, I'd wait
[09:35] <wligtenberg> zyga: does a firefox snap exist? I am not fully aware of all snaps :)
[09:35] <zyga> wligtenberg: I don't think a stable one exists yet
[09:36] <wligtenberg> zyga: ok, thanks. Then I will have to resort to the windows VM I guess. It would be a very cool use case I think. No more try all these things and you might get it to work, but just use this snap. :)
[09:36] <ogra_> iirc there is a chrome one though (but also only in the edge channel)
[09:37] <zyga> I agree, I think it's coming though
[09:37] <wligtenberg> Although it would be even better if Cisco would just play nice with Linux...
[09:37] <ogra_> snap install chrome-test --edge
[09:37] <wligtenberg> ogra_: As far as I know, chrome is more difficult since it has stopped java support, which is required.
[09:38] <ogra_> thats the proprietary chrome though ... it might have more than chromium (it takes 5min to try out if you want to check ,... snaps are easily installed/uninstalled without any harm for your system)
[09:39] <wligtenberg> ogra_: good point, will just see if it works. :)
[09:39] <ogra_> ;)
[09:47] <Chipaca> and that's 5 minutes on *ogra_'s* connection :-)
[09:47] <ogra_> haha, yeah
[09:47] <Chipaca> he's got a very speedy dialup
[09:47] <Chipaca> :-)
[09:49] <zyga> I-S-D-N
[09:55] <ogra_> of them get you 1.2Mbit!)
[09:55] <ogra_> bah
[09:55] <ogra_> (10 of them get you 1.2Mbit!)
[09:59] <mcphail> wligtenberg: curious to know if you can get this to work. Was hoping to join a webex next week
[10:08] <awi> hi
[10:12] <mup> PR snapd#3213 opened: snap: require snap name for 'revert' <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3213>
[10:49] <wligtenberg> ogra_ mcpahil: using the chrome snap does not work. It downloads a java webstart thingy but cannot execute that.
[10:50] <ogra_> well, was worth a try at least
[10:51] <wligtenberg> ogra_ I agree, it is the beauty of snaps :)
[10:52] <mvo> niemeyer: if you could add tags for sergio and elopio to the forum, that would be great! this way we can use @upcoming @sergio to assign things to them :)
[10:55] <pstolowski> refresh-delta-from-core failed in my branch https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/snapd/builds/223897482
[10:56] <mvo> pstolowski: when did that fail? about ~3h ago there was a misconfiguration in u1
[10:56] <mvo> pstolowski: if its a recent failure we need to talk to them again
[10:56] <pstolowski> mvo, 4 minutes ago if travis is not laying
[10:57] <mvo> pstolowski: hm, then I think we need to talk to #u1
[10:58] <pstolowski> mvo, who is our person to talk to?
[10:59] <pstolowski> mvo, ah, ok, i see you raised that already
[10:59] <mvo> pstolowski: yes
[10:59] <pstolowski> thanks!
[11:02] <zyga> pstolowski: FYI I saw that many times this week
[11:04] <mup> PR snapcraft#1267 closed: meta: override the version with version-script <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1267>
[11:15] <ogra_> mvo, hmm ... i think we need to either finally land the systemd changes in xenial or at least update our package https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/cant-install-libudev-dev-in-classic/333/3
[11:31] <wligtenberg> mcpahil: This docker approach seems to work https://hub.docker.com/r/dnk8n/docker-webex/ , at least I can join the webex test. After tonight I will know more. I will try this, and have my windows VM as backup.
[11:32] <mup> PR snapd#3214 opened: cmd/snap: iterate interface tab completion <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3214>
[11:32] <wligtenberg> So I was definitely not the first person with the idea :)
[11:44] <mup> PR core-build#6 opened: add the initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core package source <Created by ogra1> <https://github.com/snapcore/core-build/pull/6>
[11:48] <mvo> ogra_: yeah, just noticed this too. very annoying, its the result of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1659195
[11:48] <mup> Bug #1659195: resolver regression on ubuntu-core from #1636912 <systemd (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1659195>
[11:48] <ogra_> yeah
[12:00] <pstolowski> mvo, nice idea with using iptables for 3197! looks very promising
[12:19] <mup> PR snapcraft#1268 opened: Added link to forums in the Get in touch section <Created by Ads20000> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1268>
[12:24] <renat``> Hi, again=)
[12:25] <renat``> zyga, seems, it doesn't connect because of multiple candidates for connection.
[12:25] <renat``> Apr 20 09:02:10 localhost.localdomain /usr/lib/snapd/snapd[1181]: task.go:303: DEBUG: 2017-04-20T09:02:10Z INFO cannot auto connect udisks2:service (slot auto-connection), candidates found: "screenly-client:udisks2, udisks2:client"
[12:25] <renat``>
[12:25] <renat``> For example.
[12:25] <renat``> How do I specify slots for auto-connection?
[12:26] <renat``> In this particular situation - I want both, but there is another message:
[12:26] <renat``> auto connect screenly-client:command-dbus-client (plug auto-connection), candidates found: "screenly-client:command-dbus-server, screenly-client:ping-dbus-server, screenly-client:playlist-dbus-server"
[12:26] <renat``>
[12:26] <renat``> And I only want to connect to one of them.
[12:30] <zyga> renat``: I started discussing this topic here https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-should-the-auto-connect-logic-be-like/312
[12:31] <renat``> Thanks! Joining
[12:31] <morphis_> zyga: joining us?
[12:32] <zyga> oh
[12:32] <zyga> sorry sure
[12:32] <zyga> no notification :/
[12:53] <morphis_> mvo: 2.24 is going out today or next thursday?
[12:53] <mvo> morphis_: the tenative plan is today, we will talk about it in todays standup, feel free to join, its in 7min
[12:54] <mvo> morphis_: tenative because there is a lot of stuff tagged as 2.25 which is not in yet
[12:55] <morphis_> mvo: ok, I have another meeting in 5min but that is already all I wanted, thanks :-)
[12:57] <mvo> morphis_: we need to consult JamieBennett on this too, the stable release is currently done by him. if 2.24 goes out today or not is something we also discussed via mail with tony but no final decision yet afaik
[12:58] <morphis_> ok
[12:58] <morphis_> mvo: I was more interested of the perspective when we can push the packages for fedora/suse/yocto out
[13:00] <mvo> morphis_: aha, I see. for those 2.24 is fine to push out (it is already released upstream). if you mean 2.25 (which is the next release which is currently wrapped up), then today is the tentative plan but things might get delayed because of $stuff
[13:01] <morphis_> mvo: I was thinking more of we should always align to the stable core snap with that release as their may be dependencies
[13:02] <Chipaca> zyga— standup
[13:03] <zyga> ah, sorry
[13:38] <mup> PR snapcraft#1269 opened: tests: fix package version pinning tests <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1269>
[13:40] <Son_Goku> mvo: let me know if we are releasing 2.24 today, so that I can push the button to release it for all Fedora releases
[13:45] <pedronis> mvo: fwiw systemd-run takes a --slice=  and I see a user-USER.slice but then there's also a session-xx.scope under the slice and I don't see systemd-run taking a scope
[13:58]  * zyga -> lunch
[14:04] <niemeyer> mvo: Done
[14:04] <niemeyer> 527 members on the devices mailing list.. there we go again
[14:17] <mup> PR snapd#3213 closed: snap: require snap name for 'revert' <Created by stolowski> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3213>
[14:23] <ogra_> niemeyer, FYI https://github.com/snapcore/core/blob/master/live-build/hooks/500-create-xdg-wrapper.binary#L28 is what we allow today ... when we change the whole thing i think snap-confine should actually look up which mimetypes are supported on the desktop side and put some file on top of that mimeapps.list file relfecting reality on the desktop side ... (would be a quesrtion to zyga how hard that would be to implement)
[14:24] <Chipaca> ogra_— note there are two sides to the allowing, and i think niemeyer was pointing to the other side
[14:24] <ogra_> ah
[14:24] <ogra_> *that* was the misunderstanding then :)
[14:25] <Chipaca> ogra_— either that, or there are two implementations of the same thing written in completely different languages
[14:25] <niemeyer> ogra_: Yes, what is inside core or the snap is irrelevant..
[14:25] <ogra_> niemeyer, not for the snaps
[14:25] <ogra_> niemeyer, if my snap wants a file:// url this will not work today
[14:26] <niemeyer> ogra_: In terms of security, the snap can perform that dbus-send call with whatsoever it wants
[14:26] <ogra_> so the info that the desktop knows how to handle file:// is a valuable info we should forward to the inside of core (which is what my question above is about, regarding snap-confine)
[14:27] <ogra_> sure but it will be a no-op for anything we dont define in that file
[14:27] <ogra_> (or even cause an error on the snap dside, havent tested this)
[14:27] <niemeyer> !?!?
[14:27] <niemeyer> ogra_: This is completely irrelevant.. dbus won't consult that file to perform the call, nor will the daemon on the other side
[14:28]  * ogra_ has the feeling ou dont understand me ...
[14:28] <Chipaca> ogra_— gustavo is talking about security
[14:28] <Chipaca> ogra_— you're talking about usability
[14:28] <Chipaca> both are needed
[14:28] <ogra_> right
[14:29] <niemeyer> ogra_: I have the feeling we're talking across purposes indeed.. you raised security concerns in our call today. That's what I'm talking about.
[14:29] <ogra_> i talk about what the snap sees and what the user ends up with in the current situation
[14:29] <ogra_> if we re-do the world we need to re-do this bit too ... thats all i'm saying
[14:29] <ogra_> (and i propose that snap-confine handles it)
[14:30] <ogra_> niemeyer, that were no security concerns but rather "xdg-open will open anything, not just a browser ... completely unrelated to security
[14:31] <niemeyer> ogra_: If a snap could open anything with xdg-open, that'd be a major security concern.. that's exactly the topic above.
[14:32] <niemeyer> ogra_: It can't, and it's not because of those files you referred to
[14:32] <ogra_> well, thats an xdg-open thing ...
[14:32] <niemeyer> ogra_: But because the daemon will anything not accepted
[14:32] <niemeyer> * the daemon will reject
[14:32] <niemeyer> ogra_: We don't use xdg-open *at all* today.. it's simply an executable with the same name
[14:32] <ogra_> right, currently the mimeapps.list file makes us reject even before it goes anywhere
[14:33] <niemeyer> ogra_: Once more (and last, I think), mimeapps is irrelevant.. the dbus call that is inside that xdg-open call can be carried with any URL.. it's the daemon that will prevent arbitrary URLs from being opened
[14:33] <ogra_> what i'm saying from a UX/snap perspective is that we should have that bit dynamically based on the capabilities the actual desktop exposes
[14:34] <niemeyer> ogra_: You're flipping back and forth between UX and statements such as "xdg-open can open anything"..
[14:34] <niemeyer> ogra_: Our xdg-open can't...
[14:34] <niemeyer> and it shouldn't
[14:35] <ogra_> it should allow the exact same any other desktop app is capable to when using a MRL/URL
[14:35] <ogra_> which is defined on the desktop side
[14:35] <ogra_> but not carried through as info to the core snap
[14:35] <niemeyer> ogra_: Nope, our xdg-open needs to be security aware...
[14:36] <niemeyer> ogra_: and btw, mvo is right.. polkit is unrelated.. the daemon would need to integrate with polkit for it to work, and it doesn't today
[14:36] <ogra_> well, then we shoudl make that work ... but since you want to drop that anyway i wont argue about security anymore ;)
[14:37] <niemeyer> ogra_: Don't worry about that feature. We'll sort it out.
[14:37] <morphis> niemeyer, ogra_: I think there are two things we're mixing here, one is carrying what we have right now (http://) forward also to other distributions and the other thing is support for other URI's like tel:// or similar
[14:37] <niemeyer> ogra_: We're not dropping anything.. we're evaluating a different way of doing it that might help cross-distribution support. It's about being open minded enough to accept exploring ideas and perhaps falling back if it turns out to be a dead end.
[14:37] <morphis> once we have sorted the first one we can use the same implementation to add more things if needed
[14:38] <ogra_> morphis, right, that was my point ... the core snap should have the info what the desktop side supports before even offering it to the snap
[14:38] <niemeyer> morphis: Right
[14:38] <morphis> ogra_: what do you mean by that? what kind of info should the core snap have?
[14:38] <ogra_> morphis, mime types
[14:39] <morphis> right, but that is a different story we can solve later on
[14:39] <ogra_> morphis, https://github.com/snapcore/core/blob/master/live-build/hooks/500-create-xdg-wrapper.binary#L23 defines the supported mime types a snap sees
[14:39] <morphis> we first need a way to talk with the classic desktop at all
[14:39] <niemeyer> ogra_: You had several points, actually, and most of your posts on that thread don't contribute to the conversation but rather just create controversy.. and in some cases are just plain wrong, such as the polkit statements. Please try to collaborate towards a solution.
[14:39] <ogra_> morphis, and since i try to drop any arguing about security, thats another bit i would like to see solved which is why i brought it up here
[14:39] <niemeyer> ogra_: For contrast, see morphis's last post on the thread. This is what good feedback looks like.
[14:40] <morphis> ogra_: shouldn't that be just x-scheme-handler/http;x-scheme-handler/https ?
[14:40] <morphis> ogra_: as that are the only two mime types snapd-xdg-open currently allows
[14:41] <ogra_> morphis, PRs accepted :) i thought we hand through mailto as well at least
[14:41] <morphis> ogra_: we do?
[14:41] <ogra_> (that script isnt mine, i think tvoss wrote it initially)
[14:41] <morphis> ah right
[14:41] <morphis> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd-xdg-open/blob/master/src/snapd-xdg-open.c#L67
[14:42] <morphis> both should be in sync always and I agree there could be a better way to keep both in sync
[14:42] <ogra_> rigth
[14:42] <morphis> ala letting snapd ship both xdg-open and xdg-open.desktop so we can control both
[14:42] <morphis> in the same place
[14:42] <Saviq> hey all, any idea which plug we'd need to connect to get an Electron app to work confined? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24420540/ is the denial I'm getting
[14:43] <ogra_> Saviq, i thought only browser-support
[14:43] <morphis> Saviq: there is an attribute for the browser-support interface you may have to set too
[14:43] <morphis> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/interfaces/builtin/browser_support.go#L250
[14:43] <morphis> allow-sandbox: true
[14:44] <Saviq> morphis, aha, any idea if that can be done with auto connection?
[14:44] <morphis> Saviq: you need to ask at the store level for a proper snap-declaration assertion for this
[14:44] <ogra_> Saviq, all my electron snaps did auto-connect over here ...
[14:45] <ogra_> so that shoudl definitely work fine
[14:45] <morphis> Saviq: but could be that you can set some switches for electron too to disable sandboxing for chrome
[14:45] <ogra_> snap install snapcraft-forum ... or rocketchat-desktop ...
[14:45] <morphis> niemeyer: so how do we take this further? do you want some more time to think about this or should I get a meeting up to discuss this with all involved people?
[14:45] <Saviq> ogra_, you using electron-builder?
[14:46] <ogra_> Saviq, i think ryan uses it for the snapcraft-forum one ... not sure about the rocketchat one
[14:46] <ogra_> (sadly ryan didnt publish his snapcraft.yaml)
[14:46] <Saviq> might be because it's autogenerated by electron-builder ;)
[14:46] <niemeyer> morphis: My last hope is being able to properly ask systemd itself to fire the process inside the user session.. mvo is not super optimistic, but said he'd have a quick look into it. If that turns out difficult or awkward, then we'll need to go back to having a daemon inside the user session.
[14:46] <ogra_> ah
[14:47] <morphis> niemeyer: the problem with that is that systemd doesn't control the user session on all distros
[14:47] <ogra_> niemeyer, you dont need any daemon (and we never had one)
[14:47] <morphis> niemeyer: on 14.04 and 16.04 it doesn, on 16.10 you could use systemd-run --user to do that
[14:47] <ogra_> niemeyer, there is just a dbus listener service ... that doesnt mean anything is running
[14:47] <morphis> niemeyer: so it is possible but not really portable
[14:47] <niemeyer> ogra_: I'm sure morphis understands what I'm talking about
[14:48] <niemeyer> morphis: I see.. hmmm
[14:48] <morphis> niemeyer: I can give `systemd-run --user`a try later on on 16.10 if that would solve it but that would be a super long term solution
[14:49] <niemeyer> morphis: Isn't that a short cut for a more complex set of options that might be used in 14.04.. I note it supports --slice
[14:49] <morphis> niemeyer: given that we need to support 14.04 / 16.04 till 2020
[14:49] <morphis> niemeyer: --slice isn't enough as it doesn't affect the process hiearchy
[14:50] <morphis> I used that in my example I gave on the forum post
[14:50] <niemeyer> morphis: --user is a way of selecting which service manager it's talking to, right?
[14:50] <morphis> right
[14:51] <niemeyer> morphis: Can't we explicitly select that service manager some other way?
[14:51] <niemeyer> morphis: Manipulating environment or whatever
[14:51] <morphis> niemeyer: we can hack and get the DBUS_SESSION_ADDR from a process inside the session and then talk to it
[14:51] <niemeyer> morphis: How does it find out the proper service manager nowadays?
[14:51] <niemeyer> morphis: Sounds promising
[14:51] <morphis> however that doesn't solve the problem that we have to support upstart and systemd
[14:52] <morphis> niemeyer: its defined somewhere within the lightdm configuration if I am not wrong
[14:52] <niemeyer> morphis: snapd doesn't work with upstart today, I think
[14:52] <morphis> niemeyer: right
[14:52] <niemeyer> morphis: Ah, wait, I get what you mean
[14:52] <niemeyer> Need to step out for a couple of minutes.. brb
[14:52] <morphis> niemeyer: we basically need to support for initctl --user and systemctl --user and for the upstart variant we need to craft our own .conf file and ship it as part of the snapd deb package
[14:53] <morphis> niemeyer: I think that really adds only more complexity to the whole situation than we want
[14:55] <jdstrand> Saviq: briwser-support should be all you need. don't specify 'allow-sandbox: true' since electron apps don't need it
[14:55] <ogra_> morphis, well, things like openbox dont even use upstart or systemd as session managers (while the DM cares for logind and dbus to always run for any desktop)
[14:56] <morphis> ogra_: right, that is what I meant with my last comment more or less, we have too many case to consider if we go this route which takes aways the simplicity we want to achive
[14:56] <jdstrand> Saviq: you might have to set an env var or something to disable the sandbox, but I don't think that is necessary (someone could correct me)
[14:56] <ogra_> exactly
[14:56] <Saviq> jdstrand, I didn't, but still getting denials like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24420628/ - doesn't work unless --devmode
[14:57] <morphis> jdstrand: the electron apps don't use chromium sanboxing?
[14:57] <ogra_> i dont think any webapps can
[14:57] <Saviq> only thing about sandbox I can find is https://electron.atom.io/docs/api/sandbox-option/ but that doesn't seem to be that
[14:57] <ogra_> iirc you have to actually invoke the binary with --no-snadbox
[14:58] <ogra_> yeah
[14:58] <niemeyer> morphis: Ack, does feel like a can of worms
[14:58] <ogra_> /snap/snapcraft-forum/4/snapcraft-forum --type=renderer --no-sandbox --primordial-pipe-token=31B373498D
[14:58] <morphis> niemeyer: yes :-)
[14:58] <ogra_> Saviq, ^^^
[14:58] <morphis> ogra_: ah!
[14:59] <morphis> --no-sandbox is the key here
[14:59] <ogra_> yeah
[14:59] <morphis> ogra_: is electron using that by default?
[14:59] <Saviq> ogra_, ack, thanks!
[14:59] <ogra_> morphis, i dont know ... i would expect electron-builder to actually default to it
[14:59] <ogra_> when building a snap :)
[14:59] <jdstrand> morphis: they can use seccomp but not userns. electron apps don't need it, they are snappy sandboxed
[14:59] <morphis> jdstrand: right
[15:00] <jdstrand> allow-sandbox: true allows use of userns but grants a ton of privilege, so it is only used for official browsers
[15:01]  * jdstrand takes a note to update the review tools to mention --no-sandbox with electron apps
[15:01]  * jdstrand also updates the wiki
[15:04] <ogra_> sergiusens, github sends me mondrian artwork about snaopcraft by mail suddenly !
[15:04] <ogra_> (the color selection is a bit boring though ... only red, green and grey)
[15:16] <apw> ogra_, hey did we jsut release a new core snap ?
[15:17] <apw> i seem to have a lost loop device showing up which looks to be the 1337 version of the core snap
[15:33] <Saviq> ogra_, hrmf, should I see something when running snapcraft-forum? I'm seeing "mmap() failed: Permission denied" and the same DENIAL... nothing else ¿?
[15:35] <Saviq> hmm hmm, works with --devmode, /me starts thinking this is something special about his host...
[15:35] <Saviq> like... zesty
[15:50] <mup> Bug #1684893 opened: "fonts", "themes" and "icons"  interfaces for desktop apps <snapd-interface> <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684893>
[15:50] <mup> Bug #1684896 opened: sha3-384 mismatch downloading lxd <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684896>
[16:02] <sergiusens> ogra_: err, what?
[16:03] <ogra_> apw, not me, either JamieBennett or mvo do the releases nowadays
[16:03] <sergiusens> Saviq: kernel >=4.10 needs snapd 2.24
[16:03] <ogra_> Saviq, yeah there was a forum thread about it
[16:03]  * sergiusens wonders why people still discuss things here :-P
[16:05] <mup> Bug #1684896 changed: sha3-384 mismatch downloading lxd <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684896>
[16:06]  * Saviq upgrades snapd
[16:10] <sergiusens> mvo: are you pushing to zesty as the latest distro series possible and are you finding hassle in trying to do that?
[16:12] <mvo> sergiusens: I'm pushing to zesty via the normal SRUs, I find it the same hassle as the other SRUs. or is that not the question?
[16:12] <sergiusens> mvo: great, that is what I wanted to hear; was wondering if we were asked to wait for z+1 and anything like that
[16:13] <cachio> ogra_, hey, I am starting some test automation for console conf, any advice about how to start that?
[16:13] <ogra_> cachio, you want to read up about system-user assertions ...
[16:14] <ogra_> not sure if we have anything for the networking side though ...
[16:14] <cachio> ogra_, ok, nice
[16:15] <cachio> ogra_, do you know where is the code stored for console conf?
[16:16] <ogra_> cachio, it is the source package of "subiquity" ... not sure where the actual code lives, i would suspect on launchpad ... mwhudson is your man for details, he maintains it
[16:17] <mup> PR snapcraft#1269 closed: tests: fix package version pinning tests <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1269>
[16:17] <cachio> ogra_, ok I'll look up tx
[16:17] <ogra_> i guess you can somehow find it under the subiquity project on LP
[16:23] <kyrofa> ogra_, that's on GH now I think: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/subiquity
[16:23] <ogra_> sergiusens, re -> mondrian .... https://codecov.io/gh/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1263?src=pr&el=continue
[16:23] <mup> PR snapcraft#1263: Pass through commands into the lxd container <Created by kalikiana> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1263>
[16:24] <ogra_> sergiusens, seems to send these reports to everyone and his grandmas addressbook by mail ...
[16:25] <ogra_> (i dont mind, but it should really use more colors :P )
[16:29] <mup> PR snapd#3215 opened: tests: address review comments from #3186 <Created by fgimenez> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3215>
[16:37] <kyrofa> Oh cachio I guess that github subiquity link was for you
[16:38] <kyrofa> Man that word is hard to type
[16:38] <cachio> ky, yes I saw that, thanks
[16:38] <cachio> kyrofa, yes I saw that, thanks
[17:02] <mup> PR snapcraft#1270 opened: release changelog for 2.29 <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1270>
[17:26] <morphis> jdstrand: do you have time to look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3177 again today?
[17:26] <mup> PR snapd#3177: cmd/snap: make users Xauthority file available in snap environment <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3177>
[17:27] <jdstrand> morphis: yeah
[17:27] <morphis> jdstrand: thanks!
[17:27] <jdstrand> let me phrase that another way. I'll look at it today :)
[17:27] <jdstrand> let's leave having time out of it :P
[17:31] <mvo> morphis: I fixed a bunch of conflicts and reopened 2592
[17:31] <mup> PR snapd#2592 opened: many: add support for session dbus services via snaps <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2592>
[17:32] <mvo> morphis: we talked about this the other day, tomorrow I will continue with ensureing the snapd.conf is always available and refinements, then the session dbus bit should be good, we can then talk about system dbus too, hopefully straightforward
[17:55] <Facu> git related question: I proposed a branch for snapcraft, and a change was requested; should I go back to my branch, do the change... and then what? one commit, then *squash* that commit to have only one in the branch, and then push?
[18:03] <kyrofa> Facu, no, don't squash, the reviewers will be hard-pressed to see what changed
[18:03] <kyrofa> Facu, just push up a new commit with the changes requested
[18:03] <Facu> kyrofa, ah, thanks!
[18:04] <kyrofa> Facu, any time, thanks for caring enough to ask! That's a good sign ;)
[18:04] <Facu> :)
[18:54] <icey> what are the requirements to get an alias accepted as the default way to access an app without renaming a snap?
[19:03] <kyrofa> icey, just make a forum post in the store category requesting it
[19:04] <icey> kyrofa: is the forum tied at all into SSO?
[19:05] <kyrofa> icey, I don't think so yet
[19:05] <icey> also, possible to get a review on new snap ripgrep, with classic confinement?
[19:07] <icey> or
[19:07] <icey> is there an interface for full filesystem access?
[19:07] <mup> PR snapd#3203 closed: interfaces/mount: add ReadMountInfo and LoadMountInfo <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3203>
[19:07] <mup> PR snapd#3216 opened: cmd/snap-update-ns: add actual implementation <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3216>
[19:14] <icey> for reference, upstream pull request: https://github.com/BurntSushi/ripgrep/pull/455 :)
[19:14] <mup> PR BurntSushi/ripgrep#455: Add snapcraft.yaml <Created by ChrisMacNaughton> <https://github.com/BurntSushi/ripgrep/pull/455>
[20:02] <mup> PR snapcraft#1271 opened: tests: increase the staging registration limit to 100 <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1271>
[20:20] <zyga> gah gah gah
[20:21] <zyga> my algorithm sucks
[20:22] <zyga> this is surprisingly a hard problem :/
[20:22] <zyga> given mountinfo data and a particular mount command answer if the command has ran and can be skipped
[21:22] <lutostag> can somebody take a quick peek at https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1679210 to at least triage it?
[21:22] <mup> Bug #1679210: snap install --revision tracks stable by default <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679210>
[21:39] <catbus1> Hi, I assume the proprietary software/binaries can be snapped, how do I make it available to my paying customer?
[21:40] <catbus1> and I assume if I don't want automatic update, I just don't update the channel like 'stable' the customers have access to, right?
[22:02] <qengho> catbus1: There's a pricing model in the Ubuntu store, if you want to sell it that way, or you can run your own store, or you can put it anyone's store and make it available to everyone to download and test for some kind of license key file at startup.
[22:04] <qengho> catbus1: as for updates, you can make a kind of sub-channel, I think.  So, you each customer or class of customer gets their own channel and you update by flipping states in the store.
[22:10] <catbus1> qengho: thanks.


[13:09] <Myrtti> daftykins: Yotoplayer / Toniebox, similar systems undoubtedly are around for other demographics and also home hackable with RFID/NFC readers, RasPis etc
[14:44] <penguin42>  'Adverse weather conditions are currently affecting the nationwide supply of Broccoli' huh
[14:46] <zxmpi> is that a good thing or a bad thing? :-P
[14:49] <penguin42> indeed, it's something my mum likes for some reason
[14:55] <zxmpi> my mother loved parsnips. when she was preapring them the cat and i sat in the back garden no matter the weather :-)
[14:58] <penguin42> haha, I'm OK with parsnips
[14:59] <zxmpi> when my mother prepared them the smell filled the house for days
[15:02] <penguin42> oh weird, wth did she do to them
[15:06] <zxmpi> i don't know, i was in the garden with the cat :-)
[22:13] <penguin42> [dg@dalek ~]$ date +%s<PHONE_NUMBER>


[11:37] <valentina_> Hello All :D
[11:37] <valentina_> would anyone give me a hint please: I'm using pylxd in my charm: https://git.launchpad.net/charms-6wind/tree/charm-layers/6wind-common/lib/charm/openstack/utils.py.
[11:37] <valentina_> I want to add a constraint: that my charm installs and uses only pylxd>=2.2.7 from PyPy repository not python3-pylxd from official ubuntu's repos.
[11:37] <valentina_> I've found small notice about wheelhouse.txt file in official doc
[11:37] <valentina_> I'm hesitating, where I should put this constraint, shall I create wheelhouse.txt in 6wind-common layer directory: https://git.launchpad.net/charms-6wind/tree/charm-layers/6wind-common
[11:37] <valentina_> Or I should put it in charm's dir here:  https://git.launchpad.net/charms-6wind/tree/virtual-accelerator-compute
[11:37] <valentina_> ?
[11:40] <valentina_> The second question: actually there is no any wheelhouse.txt files in charms-6wind repo, but when I build the charm, the build folder is created and I can see wheelhouse.txt generated here. How it is generated by charm build and which template it takes, how it takes decision which python libraries it have to put to wheelhouse.txt as a needed dependencies ?
[11:40] <valentina_> Thanks for any help


[16:33] <paulg78> Hi I have a very weird issue with xubuntu 22.04. I have focus follows mouse set in the window manager preferences however after some time this just stops working and I have to click to focus. The only way to fix it seems to be to restart X after which it will work for a bit then fail again.
[16:36] <tomreyn> !bug | paulg78
[16:41] <paulg78> which package though? I'm not actually sure perhaps the window manager itself in the first instance?
[16:43] <tomreyn> paulg78: the xubuntu window manager is xfwm4. i do not know for sure that this is the right package, but bug reports can be reassigned later if needed.
[16:44] <tomreyn> you could also search launchpad for existing reports regarding "focus follows mouse" - if this is an exact quote for the graphical user interface.
[16:46] <tomreyn> bug 1918375 is an earlier report about an issue with the "focus follows mouse" feature
[16:47] <tomreyn> but it's just tangential, not the same issue, so better report it separately
[17:00] <paulg78> So it appears not to be a window manager bug, it appears to be something holding a pointer grab (what is very non-obvious) xdotool key 'XF86Ungrab' does not fix it but xdotool key 'XF86ClearGrab' does. The former just tries to release a grab the second actually kills the client which took the grab
[17:00] <paulg78> however I can't actually workout what caused the grab in the first place
[17:01] <paulg78> If there is a grab the wm will never get the mouse events and thus not be able to change the focus