[17:52] <mathomastech> Hey Everyone! So I would like to revive the Northfield User Group. I have just recently (last week) moved to the area. I  │
[17:52] <mathomastech>                │                      | am putting together some idea's to get this off the ground. I'd love to get some input and see if there is even an        │
[17:52] <mathomastech>                │                      | interest in it's revival. Here's the link to the Google Doc I am working on. Feel free to add comments!
[17:52] <mathomastech> Whoa, sorry about that. Copy paste fail.
[17:52] <mathomastech> Here is the link. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-kmDQvJcUmkn3UIqFHo4ZmHxjOEq9ufCrfOf6MKNeOs/edit?usp=sharing


[01:18] <hads> G: Cool, that's not bad for RD
[01:24] <ibeardslee> don't suppose anyone has a bunch of Ubuntu 11.04 CDs floating around?
[01:25] <mwhudson> i have one somewhere i think
[01:27] <ibeardslee> shop.canonical.com doesn't have the 11.04 desktop CDs
[01:27] <ibeardslee> wanting to track them down for the Catalyst Academy
[01:37] <ajmitch> why 11.04?
[01:38] <ibeardslee> more recent software than 10.04, and it give people an easier choice between the gnome and unity interfaces
[02:23] <G> hads: we have a fairly awesome RD driver :)
[18:16] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:56] <chilts> morning
[18:56] <chilts> you're early ... that's unfair! :-p
[19:10] <snail> so i get a call from the issue desk that the security gates are going crazy; so i go down and they are, for no apparent reason; so i go to the level below and construction workers have removed an external wall, driven a digger in and parked it directly under the the electro-magnetic gates, with the arm up by the ceiling; so a construction worker comes over to tell me I'm not allowed to be down there and I ask whether they could park the thing outside "na

[19:25] <ajmitch> morning
[20:10] <lifeless> snail: where do you work ?
[20:10] <snail> lifeless: http://library.victoria.ac.nz/
[20:11] <lifeless> cool
[20:11] <lifeless> thanks
[20:11] <snail> why do you ask?
[20:25] <lifeless> to put your description in context
[20:25] <lifeless> e.g. was it checkout gates
[20:25] <lifeless> or gun security gates
[20:38] <mwhudson> morning
[20:41] <hads> morning


[12:08] <Simira> ogra :) How's your dog?
[12:08] <ogra> Simira, he's ok ...
[12:08] <ogra> for his age ...
[12:08] <ogra> moving very slow ...
[12:09] <Simira> ogra : I guess that's normal. As long as he's not hurting
[12:10] <ogra> nope, he isnt
[12:10] <ogra> he just gets lame slowly ...
[12:50] <highvoltage> boo
[12:50] <jelkner> good morning!
[12:50] <highvoltage> goof morning, jelkner.
[12:51] <highvoltage> (good)
[12:53] <jelkner> this is the time and place for the edubuntu meeting, yes?
[12:53] <kjcole> Why else would i beawake at this god forsaken hour?
[12:54] <jelkner> kjcole: speaking of god forsaken hours, does sunday at 9 work for you (or even 8:30 if your *really* brave ;-)?
[12:56] <spacey> 13:00 in the afternoon is quite reasonable :D
[12:56] <kjcole> jelkner: Hoooooowl!
[12:56] <jelkner> can i take that as a yes?
[12:57] <kjcole> jelkner: Sigh, oh the sacrifices I make.
[12:58] <jelkner> does that mean you're up for 8:30am ?
[12:58] <kjcole> jelkner; til when?
[12:58] <highvoltage> jelkner: yep
[12:59] <jelkner> till 12:00 noon
[12:59] <highvoltage> 2PM, what's God-forsaken about that? :P
[12:59] <jelkner> not sure exactly, i need to take my son to his tennis game
[12:59] <jelkner> but i can definitely work until noon
[01:00] <jelkner> kjcole: give me a quick call at<PHONE_NUMBER> to work out details (if you're near a phone)
[01:00] <kjcole> jelkner: for now let's say yes, but I'll want to check bus schedules, spouse schedules, etc.
[01:01] <JaneW> hi all
[01:01] <JaneW> role call
[01:01] <JaneW> roll even
[01:02] <JaneW> is ogra in the house?
[01:03] <highvoltage> he quit a few minutes ago.
[01:03] <kjcole> JaneW: Ogra was a few min ago
[01:03] <JaneW> let's give him a minute to return...
[01:03] <jelkner> he's back
[01:03] <highvoltage> wow, that worked :)
[01:03] <JaneW> hi ogra
[01:03] <ogra> grumble ...
[01:03] <JaneW> and flint and mhz
[01:03] <highvoltage> hi ogra
[01:03] <ogra> hi all
[01:03] <highvoltage> and flint and JaneW
[01:03] <mhz> hi you all, Edubuntereos! :D
[01:04] <ogra> working on erge bugs is no fun
[01:04] <ogra> *merge
[01:04] <flint> do you have any idea how early this is? Good Morning...
[01:04] <spacey> i'm present
[01:04] <JaneW> hi spacey
[01:04] <kjcole> Ogra: No urge to merge?
[01:04] <mhz> flint: fresh ideas in the morning
[01:04] <ogra> kjcole, all merge bugs have to be finished tomorrow...
[01:04] <ogra> (for main)
[01:04] <flint> morning kevin, jane, ollli et al.
[01:06] <ogra> so tech update ?
[01:06] <flint> where is my coffee...jane you carp about agendas?
[01:06] <highvoltage> ogra: fire away!
[01:06] <jelkner> ogra: please do!
[01:06] <kjcole> As jane said a few min ago.. Roll call first?
[01:06] <flint> oh no, it's elkner!!!
[01:07] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html shows that we are pretty good for the flight CD on friday/saturday
[01:07] <flint> flint is flint
[01:07] <spacey> :P
[01:08] <ogra> the only differenc we have to the ubuntu CD currently is kino, which i currently consider to be dropped completely...
[01:08] <ogra> kino is a video editing app...
[01:08] <highvoltage> ogra: how does the space look like?
[01:08] <ogra> video editing over ltsp is no real fun ...
[01:08] <highvoltage> ogra: are the applications larger than the previous versions?
[01:08] <ogra> we are at 670MB currently ...
[01:08] <ogra> so plenty of space ...
[01:09] <highvoltage> nice.
[01:09] <mhz> ogra: besidea, I've been told Kino is not the best ,so far, video editing app.
[01:09] <ogra> i requested a live filesystem build from lamont, but didnt hear back yet
[01:09] <ogra> mhz, its the best we have in main
[01:09] <ogra> and i'd like to keep it ... but it doesnt really make sense if you cant use it ...
[01:10] <ogra> videos over ltsp give you ~10 frames a second
[01:10] <ogra> which is not better than a slideshow
[01:10] <spacey> lots of video stuff in development
[01:10] <spacey> but not mature
[01:10] <Yagisan> ogra: is that because of lack of video acceleration on the clients ?
[01:10] <ogra> might be, but i dont thik the video issue can be solved before dapper
[01:11] <ogra> Yagisan, its because you send the picture back and forth through the ssh connection
[01:11] <spacey> high traffic
[01:11] <ogra> if we once have local app support (approximately dapper+1) you will be able to use it
[01:12] <spacey> that would be fancy
[01:12] <kjcole> ogra: not that it is necessarily possible, but as a tie in to the special needs in education (a.k.a. accessibility) video-based education for deaf students using sign language, would be sweet.  But I'm just fantasizing.
[01:12] <ogra> ok, so much about the CD ... we'll have a install CD ready for flight2, i cant promise a liveCD before lamont came back to me ... please start testing
[01:12] <ogra> kjcole, as long as the base is not there, i cant do much ...
[01:13] <ogra> local apps is not on my list for this release
[01:13] <ogra> development in general :
[01:13] <ogra> i inspected willow .... anybody know willow ?
[01:13] <kjcole> ogra: I wasn't suggesting you create it.  Just tossing an idea out... planting seeds...
[01:13] <ogra> (except spacey )
[01:14] <spacey> :o
[01:14] <ogra> kjcole, lets sit together fr dapper+1 if you have experience in this warea
[01:14] <ogra> i think jelkner and flint will do a dapper dance ...... ;)
[01:14] <ogra> willow is a content filter app written in pythin ....
[01:14] <ogra> python
[01:14] <flint> not this early in the morning i won't...
[01:14] <kjcole> ogra: that image is just too scary to comtemplate.
[01:14] <jelkner> i'm dancing already!
[01:15] <ogra> its *not* requiring urllists or filter rules....
[01:15] <flint> oh neat!
[01:15] <mhz> wow
[01:15] <ogra> its based on bayesian filtering (similar to spamfilters)
[01:15] <kjcole> ogra: re video, no experience. just wishes.
[01:15] <flint> where do I find it (imagine Hindernburg landing at Lakehurst NJ.)
[01:15] <ogra> kjcole, feel free to work on it with me anyway ;)
[01:15] <highvoltage> ogra: is ldap on your list for this release?
[01:15] <kjcole> ogra: sure.
[01:15] <jelkner> ogra: does that mean we can run it on the server?
[01:16] <ogra> i'll package it up as soon as i got time ...
[01:16] <spacey> anyway i will look into willow in the next week and see what i can do
[01:16] <ogra> it requires some heavy packaging knowledge to get it right since i want a transparent proxy mode by default ...
[01:16] <ogra> but
[01:17] <ogra> it has a webbased gui i plan to replace with a desktop gui ....
[01:17] <spacey> complete replacement? optional would be nice?
[01:17] <ogra> i made some initial work available as bzr archive ... spacey expressed interest to work on it
[01:17] <highvoltage> nice.
[01:17] <spacey> for if you don't run it on the edubuntu machine but on a router
[01:18] <flint> (Hindenburg landing at Lakehurst NJ := flint dancing for joy over willow :^)
[01:18] <ogra> you will be ale to enable the web gui, but i will disable it by default
[01:18] <ogra> the default conf app will be the desktop gui
[01:18] <spacey> ogra, fair enough :)
[01:18] <ogra> if you want to work on it, please make a bzr branch from my archive and make your work available in bzr on the web so i can merge it
[01:19] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/
[01:19] <ogra> ^^^ my bzr archives
[01:19] <spacey> ok ^_^
[01:19] <kjcole> flint: I think for willow, one should "weep" (for joy of course).
[01:19] <flint> spacey, should we consider booting willow on a router as an outboard machine
[01:19] <spacey> outboard?
[01:19] <ogra> the basic glade gui stuff is done, it would be nice just to port the web gui functions for the backend
[01:20] <flint> spacey, later... old idea...
[01:20] <spacey> ok
[01:20] <ogra> the plan since we still are on a single classroom solution is to run it on the server ...
[01:20] <ogra> as transparent proxy, configured to run by default
[01:20] <flint> ah, the old python...
[01:21] <jane_> for goodness sake why does my line disconnect at 12:00UTC every wednesday....?!!
[01:21] <ogra> if and only if it gets ready in time before UVF, i'll try to get it on the CD
[01:21] <spacey> i'll give willow a testdrive on friday
[01:21] <ogra> else you'll have it in universe to install separately
[01:21] <highvoltage> JaneW: Telkom
[01:21] <JaneW> (sorry about that *again*)
[01:21] <ogra> (and if i dont discover bad bugs indeed)
[01:21] <kjcole> JaneW: You do seem to come and go a bit...
[01:21] <flint> JaneW, do you know how much it costs us to have that done every week?  Tell her guys!
[01:21] <JaneW> highvoltage: but it's FINE the rest of the week.... *shakeshead*
[01:22] <ogra> the status of ltsp:
[01:22] <ogra> my ldm fixes are submitted to mdz for review, havent heard back yet ....
[01:22] <ogra> the multiarch patch Yagisan wrote is integrated and submitted to mdz .... havent heard back either
[01:23] <flint> zimmerman just got back from San Francisco...
[01:23] <ogra> sound is not submittable integrated yet, my merge bugs for ubuntu currently take most of my dev time ...
[01:24] <highvoltage> Yagisan: congrats with your boy!
[01:24] <ogra> but all my work is available in my bzr archive for inspection, so feel free to bzr get it ;)
[01:24] <ogra> (see url above)
[01:24] <JaneW> ^^^ +++
[01:24] <highvoltage> ogra: and swapping over the network?
[01:25] <Yagisan> thanks. love to chat about him after meeting
[01:25] <ogra> highvoltage, ....
[01:25] <flint> Yagisan, Jamie, is there a Jones sub-process?
[01:25] <ogra> to answer highvoltage, the specs are at mdz for review as well ...
[01:25] <highvoltage> ok.
[01:25] <ogra> the ThinClientMemoryUsage spec contains the network swap stuff...
[01:26] <ogra> as soon as its approved, i'll work on integrating that
[01:26] <ogra> as well as the FasterBootScpe and the SoundSpec
[01:26] <highvoltage> nice. it's quite essential, imo.
[01:27] <ogra> its already integrated in breezy
[01:27] <Yagisan> ogra: how far along is ThinClientMemoryUsage ?
[01:27] <ogra> but is not set up ...
[01:27] <highvoltage> ogra: i didn't know that, let's talk about that later then.
[01:27] <ogra> Yagisan, thats last on my priority list, since it depends on other stuff
[01:27] <flint> ogra, what about block memory devices?  Sound is optional in a crowded classroom
[01:27] <ogra> i.e. the faster boot spec
[01:28] <kjcole> flint: especially since they're all listening to their iPod's anyway.
[01:28] <flint> kjcole, or talking on their cell phones...
[01:28] <ogra> the local device spec is a= not done yet and b) depending on work of others who are very busy currently
[01:28] <Yagisan> what has the boot time been reduced to ?
[01:29] <ogra> Yagisan, hard to predict, i totally depend on Keybuks fixes of udev that havent hit dapper yet
[01:29] <highvoltage> ogra: the default edubuntu installer for release, will it use the ncurses d-i or u-e?
[01:29] <ogra> currently my thin client here (a very slow one) produces a bootchart with 50seconds
[01:30] <highvoltage> 50seconds not too bad.
[01:30] <ogra> highvoltage, we'll have two ...
[01:30] <flint> highvoltage, I thought they used whiptail
[01:30] <kjcole> d-i or u-e?
[01:30] <Yagisan> also, would multicast tftp help speed the boot process ? It could allow etherboot systems to load the kernel more efficently
[01:30] <ogra> the liveCD will have u-e but only install the workstation version
[01:30] <spacey> kjcole, debian installer or ubuntu-express
[01:30] <highvoltage> kjcole: debian-installer / ubuntu-express
[01:30] <ogra> te install cd will have d-i and install the server
[01:30] <highvoltage> kjcole: sorry, a bit lazy to type
[01:30] <Yagisan> ogra: after meeting - please tel me how to bootchart my terminals
[01:31] <ogra> Yagisan, sudo apt-get install bootchart in the chroot ;)
[01:31] <ogra> (works only in dapper)
[01:31] <kjcole> spacey, highvoltage: That's what I get for being an rpm guy in an obviously deb universe. Thanks.
[01:31] <ogra> Yagisan, you cant
[01:31] <ogra> it depends on certain features of initramfsafaik
[01:32] <ogra> highvoltage, feel free to chat with Kamion about that, i hav no extra dev time for working on express at all
[01:32] <highvoltage> cool.
[01:32] <ogra> ltsp is more important currently
[01:33] <highvoltage> completely agreed.
[01:33] <ogra> ok, thats all from my side for now ... if Kamion calls out for flight 2 tests, please start testing our CD, it should be fine by then ...
[01:33] <JaneW> thanks ogra
[01:34] <ogra> oh, in a sidenote, the gobby main inclusion report is written and waiting for approval through pitti
[01:34] <JaneW> I can;t belive none of my beaurocratic stuff came through int he beginning - maybe there's an admin filter here ;)
[01:34] <highvoltage> seems like you're way ahead of everyone, ogra.
[01:34] <JaneW> ogra: yay :)
[01:34] <ogra> as soon as thats done i'll add it to the desktop
[01:34] <flint> ogra, thanks for all the hard work, I have been rebuilding my Lab here in Vermont
[01:34] <jelkner> ogra: thanks a 10**6!
[01:34] <ogra> flint, cool
[01:35] <JaneW> ogra: yes well done you have been quietly working away haven't you?
[01:35] <ogra> JaneW, yup...
[01:35] <spacey> hard worker :)
[01:35] <ogra> but my merge bugs take a lot time currently
[01:35] <kjcole> ogra: such a busy boy!
[01:35] <JaneW> understood
[01:35] <ogra> so i cant as much as i would like :)
[01:35] <JaneW> ogra: did you have a prepared summary?
[01:35] <flint> America interrupted all meaningful work here with Thanksgiving Holiday
[01:35] <mhz> ogra: bis from here
[01:35] <jelkner> i need to run (students arriving)... same time next week?
[01:36] <ogra> JaneW, nope, i'll merge it together from the log ...
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: if so please dump it in a PM for me - if not I'll distill from the logs...
[01:36] <highvoltage> can we talk about the website?
[01:36] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes shoot
[01:36] <ogra> after the meeting
[01:36] <flint> jelkner, go get 'em tiger!
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: ok
[01:36] <mhz> jelkner: did the how to work?
[01:36] <JaneW> jelkner: bye, thanks
[01:36] <ogra> ciao jelkner
[01:36] <kjcole> jelkner: Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel
[01:36] <highvoltage> ok, let's do the biggest part first.
[01:36] <jelkner> mhz: i'll look it over today, and get back to you
[01:36] <mhz> ok
[01:37] <highvoltage> Philip has convinced me that we should use Drupal for CMS on Edubuntu.
[01:37] <flint> kjcole, Same Chat-Time, Same Chat-Channel :^)
[01:37] <highvoltage> the biggest reason not to use it is because it's php based, and that can potentially open security vulnerabilities.
[01:37] <highvoltage> but ubuntu already uses php for some of the sites.
[01:37] <ogra> highvoltage, have fun with weekly php secuity updates ;)
[01:38] <Yagisan> s/weekly/daily
[01:38] <ogra> heh
[01:38] <highvoltage> ogra: sure
[01:38] <highvoltage> ogra: and it also runs alone on the edubuntu server, the risks are quite low, imo.
[01:38] <highvoltage> hno73 has some great ideas with the wiki.
[01:39] <ogra> if you got a security hole and little scriptkiddies put porn on the frontpage .....
[01:39] <highvoltage> and while i think it will work perfectly with people familiar with wiki's, I don't think it will work well with our target market
[01:39] <ogra> :)
[01:39] <highvoltage> i.e. overworked underpaid teachers
[01:39] <highvoltage> ogra: i'll know it was you :P
[01:39] <ogra> hahaha
[01:39] <mhz> highvoltage: has he wikied his ideas? (i'd love to read them)
[01:39] <ogra> i have no clue about php :)
[01:40] <highvoltage> mhz: yes, he has
[01:40] <flint> highvoltage, johnathan, you nailed it with the market description.
[01:40] <mhz> highvoltage: cool
[01:40] <highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSitePublishingTools
[01:40] <ogra> i stay away from it as far as i can... dont fear me... fear 20yr younger kids ;)
[01:40] <highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan
[01:40] <highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
[01:40] <mhz> highvoltage: duh! I wasn't subscribed :(
[01:41] <highvoltage> ogra: i avoid php too wherever i can, i do think drupal is the best tool for the job though
[01:41] <highvoltage> flint: ;)
[01:42] <JaneW> highvoltage: I have heard good things about it
[01:42] <highvoltage> drupal will make it easier for us to manage the edubuntu documentation too.
[01:42] <highvoltage> and for the web team to add content.
[01:42] <ogra> highvoltage, http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=drupal
[01:42] <mhz> highvoltage: we could have a meeting about moin or something else?
[01:42] <highvoltage> wiki makes it easy too, but then we get back to our target market question
[01:43] <ogra> you should monitor the above page if you use it
[01:43] <mhz> highvoltage: drupal will not make it easier to remember PageNames :(
[01:43] <kjcole> drupal, IIRC also gets grades ffrom the politically progressive crowd.  Don't know much about drupal other than a lot of the radical, hippie, Green, etc progressives seem to drift towards it.
[01:43] <spacey> why not stick to the same as ubuntu?
[01:43] <mhz> kjcole: that's true and good feature
[01:44] <flint> kjcole, takes a hippie to know a hippie! :^)
[01:44] <jsgotangco> heya
[01:44] <mhz> hey jsgotangco
[01:44] <kjcole> flint: Tune in, turn on (your computer), drop out.
[01:45] <flint> kjcole, I mean that in the nicest way (damn hippie :^)
[01:45] <Yagisan> brb -sending kids^monsters to bed
[01:45] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Hiya
[01:46] <jsgotangco> are we meeting?
[01:46] <mhz> yup
[01:46] <flint> indeed
[01:46] <kjcole> jsgotangco: yup.
[01:47] <jsgotangco> ok
[01:47] <highvoltage> geez, i must say, i'm a bit torn on this one (usually being a good decision maker)
[01:47] <mhz> highvoltage: what decision?
[01:47] <spacey> why not stick to the same as ubuntu?
[01:47] <highvoltage> drupal will suite our needs very well, but like ogra says, we don't want to end up with a site with porn on the front page
[01:47] <mhz> exactly
[01:47] <highvoltage> mhz: drupal as CMS for edubuntu
[01:48] <mhz> highvoltage: why can't we work closer to Moin wiki devels?
[01:48] <ogra> if someone cares for weekly updates of the server drupal is fine ....
[01:48] <spacey> its not really straight forwarded if edubuntu has everything completely different from ubuntu?
[01:48] <ogra> the thing is that the security stuff requires someone to care for it all the time
[01:48] <JaneW> seems to labour intensive
[01:48] <mhz> highvoltage: this way we'll include what's missing
[01:48] <highvoltage> ogra: does the ubuntu-updates cover the security vulnerabilities for php?
[01:48] <JaneW> is there another good option?
[01:49] <ogra> highvoltage, i dont know the priority of drupal here ... but it should, yes
[01:49] <mhz> JaneW: sure, MoinMoin :)
[01:49] <flint> highvoltage, my favorite dream app is a php interperter running in zope...
[01:49] <ogra> JaneW, Kewl is something else ...
[01:49] <Yagisan> well, if it isn't in main, someone needs to work full time on keeping it going, and secure
[01:49] <ogra> and has no security monitoring at all ...
[01:49] <highvoltage> so, let's try Drupal, if it gives us problems we change it.
[01:49] <JaneW> ogra: from the demo I saw it seemed to have CMS stuff...?
[01:50] <highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: you fine with that?
[01:50] <flint> you have to keep php patched for moodle...
[01:50] <JaneW> highvoltage: if you are prepared to own it and keep it up to date and running... ;)
[01:50] <Yagisan> does anyone here know how to use Drupal ?
[01:50] <ogra> JaneW, yes, but its php based and has no big community yet ... so vulnerabilitys wont be found or known ...
[01:50] <ogra> there drupal is the better option
[01:50] <mhz> highvoltage: what about the 'scroring' feature of Trac (Trac is based in moin)
[01:50] <highvoltage> Yagisan: i've used drupal before
[01:50] <spacey> what was wrong with moinmoin?
[01:50] <JaneW> ogra: ok (for the record I don't like it anyway)
[01:50] <ogra> heh
[01:51] <JaneW> ogra: I'd rather go with drupal
[01:51] <mhz> Yagisan: i tried it twice
[01:51] <highvoltage> mhz: apparently drupal is quite good at those kind of things Philip talked alot about it. i think he called it taxonomy.
[01:51] <mhz> twice =2 diff. sites
[01:51] <ogra> JaneW, yes, but highvoltage will have a lot of work through it ...
[01:51] <spacey> JaneW, you don't like what?
[01:51] <mhz> highvoltage: yup
[01:51] <Yagisan> ok - I just don't think you should use anything that you can't administrate
[01:51] <JaneW> spacey: KEWL.nextGen
[01:51] <mhz> highvoltage: taxonomy could easily be implemented in Moin, afailk
[01:51] <ogra> JaneW, if he's fine with potential weekly updates etc, it shouldnt be a problem
[01:52] <spacey> right, rings a bell, can't remember, and sounds nasty :P
[01:52] <jsgotangco> mhz: let's not be too enthusaistic about Moin
[01:52] <jsgotangco> :)
[01:52] <mhz> jsgotangco: not possible for me :)
[01:52] <highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: we can have it as a non-live site, proto.edubuntu.org with a htpassword, and once we're happy with it, it goes live.
[01:52] <jsgotangco> mhz: i just find it creepy sometimes
[01:52] <JaneW> highvoltage: cool
[01:52] <flint> highvoltage, remember how you identify the pioneer, he is the guy with the arrow in his back...
[01:52] <ogra> JaneW, my only concern is that it needs someone who continiously has the time to fix stuff probably on a weekly base
[01:52] <mhz> highvoltage: jsgotangco: have you ever subscried to a page in Drupal
[01:53] <spacey> whats wrong with the stuff which edubuntu uses atm?
[01:53] <highvoltage> in the meantime, i'll educate myseld on the common problems with drupal, and php, and make sure our system starts out as secure as it can be
[01:53] <JaneW> highvoltage:  would we have a regression path is we change our minds?
[01:53] <JaneW> s/is/if
[01:53] <flint> jsgotangco, oh thank you for the zope plug, and there is always plone!
[01:54] <jsgotangco> flint: including plone of course
[01:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: we can have 2 backups
[01:54] <flint> highvoltage, how external :^)
[01:54] <JaneW> ok no more free advertising guys :P
[01:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: we can more or less maintain our current site as a fallback,
[01:54] <highvoltage> and we can copy and paste from the drupal site to a new one, if we want.
[01:54] <kjcole> Haven't personally tried anything but MoinMoin, but I've liked being able to understand the source I've looked at and tweak it a bit.  Rare for me.  (Done some of that with Mailman as well.)
[01:54] <JaneW> ok, well then lets try and see how it goes, given that you have the time and inclination
[01:54] <highvoltage> we could also save some pages as .html and link them up, but that's just yucky.
[01:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: but yes, we can have fallbacks.
[01:55] <highvoltage> (and we will)
[01:55] <JaneW> kjcole: me too, but it seems it's to try and 'technical' for the averegae teacher, from what I hear
[01:55] <mhz> kjcole: what can i say? i agree :)
[01:55] <jsgotangco> i'll afk for 5 minutes go to rush to the drugstore
[01:55] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Zope's a bit heavy for edubuntu, no?
[01:55] <jsgotangco> kjcole: pretty much yeah
[01:56] <flint> highvoltage, if you were really mad and blind with ambition, you would propose writing a python script which would update the current site to drupal.
[01:56] <flint> you need zope if you are running schooltool
[01:56] <highvoltage> flint: if i were really mand and blind with ambition, i would write a python app that replaces drupal entirely :)
[01:57] <ogra> kjcole, why ?
[01:57] <spacey> are you mad and blind?
[01:57] <flint> highvoltage, excellent point!  i admire the mad.
[01:57] <highvoltage> spacey: only on wednesdays
[01:57] <mhz> highvoltage: are you sure that working with Moin devel guys won't let us have the missing features (still understand which, though)
[01:57] <spacey> :)
[01:57] <flint> ok sleepy and blind with ambition
[01:57] <highvoltage> mhz: it will, but at a time price.
[01:58] <highvoltage> mhz: hno73 has lots of cool ideas, and have been following moinmoin quite extensively, and you can do everything we want to, but not quite yet.
[01:58] <kjcole> ogra: In my limited experience, zope + plone just seemed to be "big", whereas moin seemed "small".  No actual empirical evidence (other than watching the install process for both in RHEL3.)
[01:58] <highvoltage> some of the features take some extra coding, some are still being developed.
[01:59] <highvoltage> what it comes down to currently, is the usability.
[01:59] <highvoltage> that's more important to me now that functionality.
[01:59] <ogra> kjcole, but zope/ploe is safe ...
[01:59] <ogra> *plone
[01:59] <spacey> thats what we have now right?
[01:59] <highvoltage> i think it's better to have less features, but have a system that's easier to use.
[01:59] <ogra> kjcole, and requires nearly no admin work after being set up ...
[01:59] <highvoltage> spacey: ubuntu is partially plone
[02:00] <mhz> highvoltage: the only features I understand Drupal have over Moin is Forum, Voting, and Polls. The rest I think are all implementavle. But IMHO, drupal has less total features than moin.
[02:00] <JaneW> ok time's up, and we only discussed technical and webiste...
[02:00] <JaneW> was there anything else?
[02:00] <highvoltage> can we have more time?
[02:00] <spacey> personally i don't like plone, but i do think it is quite nice to have the same system as ubuntu, not to confuse endusers with different systems
[02:00] <JaneW> what happened in the ally meeting last week?
[02:00] <flint> JaneW, I agree enough about the factory back to the product
[02:00] <mhz> highvoltage: good point usability v/s funcioanlity
[02:01] <kjcole> ogra: Safe is good. ;-) But after setting up both, I found myself regularly updating my Moin pages, and fearing Zope/Plone.  Three books on Zope, and no books on Moin.
[02:01] <JaneW> highvoltage: sure, thing is I have a commitment at 15:10 each day, so the meetings need to be pretty punctual
[02:01] <kjcole> `
[02:01] <highvoltage> okay, for those interested, please join the web team on launchpad
[02:01] <highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-website
[02:01] <JaneW> please guys feel free to update the tables in http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
[02:01] <flint> JaneW, why so obsessive about lunch?
[02:01] <JaneW> even if we don;t get to discussing the stuff it can still be in the status reprts
[02:01] <kjcole> ogra: (I mean I have three books on Zope, and no books on Moin).  So from a non-techie point of view...
[02:02] <highvoltage> also, from the TSF side, i'm working on some documentation for Edubuntu for our Edubuntu roll-out in April/June next year
[02:02] <ogra> in a sidenote, edubuntu has a booth, a installtion workshop and i'll hold a talk at the linuxtag essen on saturday ...
[02:02] <spacey> you should make it a subteam of edubuntu
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: heh, no it's my turn to fetch kids :P
[02:02] <mhz> JaneW: i'll reply to patrizzio
[02:02] <flint> I want to beg forgiveness for not doing any documentation... I am a bad man!
[02:02] <highvoltage> i will be putting this up to our website too, if you want to get involved there,
[02:02] <JaneW> mhz: thank you
[02:02] <highvoltage> be sure to join the doc group on launchpad too
[02:02] <kjcole> Speaking of documentation.
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: not good enough :P
[02:02] <highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-doc
[02:03] <flint> JaneW, do not eat your kids even if you are in africa, they frown on canabalisim... :^)
[02:03] <mhz> JaneW: jdub edubuntu-es ML answer should be in my inbox, I guess, by no later than tomorrow (hopefully)
[02:03] <highvoltage> flint: JaneW and I are African. we should know, shouldn't we?
[02:03] <mhz> JaneW: I have created 2 teams in LP (EdubuntuChile and EdubuntuStudyContent)
[02:04] <jsgotangco> please add me
[02:04] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:04] <JaneW> flint: but they are so tasty!
[02:04] <flint> JaneW, I am certain that they are good enough to eat
[02:04] <highvoltage> Yagisan: there's also an ltsp group: https://launchpad.net/people/ltspubuntu i haven't seen you there yet
[02:04] <kjcole> Jelkner and I met Sunday, and started shreding our way through the tuxLab cookbook.  The bzr branch is up on Launchpad now, but this morning jelkner said "Let's not do this docbook stuff. Let's do lore."
[02:04] <highvoltage> i can keep further info for next meeting.
[02:04] <mhz> highvoltage: I'd be glad to jump in in that Edubuntu doc
[02:04] <kjcole> He's very into lore.
[02:05] <jsgotangco> kjcole: please write as you will, I can easily move to docbook as needed
[02:05] <highvoltage> mhz: excellent :) we'll manage that through our new drupal site, the proto site should be up within the next week
[02:05] <jsgotangco> just focus on content
[02:05] <flint> kjcole, openoffice 2.0 outputs docbook as a save option...
[02:05] <jsgotangco> flint: not good enough
[02:05] <jsgotangco> i'd rather have you guys write in ODF
[02:06] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you prefer ODF?
[02:06] <jsgotangco> and i'll slave on the actual code transformation
[02:06] <mhz> highvoltage: grrrr, okis I'l try to be objective (very difficult :D )
[02:06] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: flexible enough to move to other formats
[02:06] <JaneW> ok, it;s going to be very hard for me to document this weeks meeting...
[02:06] <JaneW> are we agreed that we'll TRY drupal?
[02:06] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Since I have the docbook and reST sources already, (for tuxLab Cookbook) and that's what we're basing off of, it seemed easier to edit the existing, rather than convert, but I'm not particularly committed to any particular method.
[02:06] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes
[02:07] <JaneW> and all accountability and responsibility for it is on highvoltage (no pressure) ;)
[02:07] <mhz> JaneW: hmm, yes
[02:07] <highvoltage> JaneW: we will install it on a prototype platform, and put in content and evaluate how it works for us
[02:07] <JaneW> cool, works for me
[02:07] <jsgotangco> kjcole: let's focus on content first, the coding would be easier
[02:07] <highvoltage> JaneW: then, if we're happy that it covers our old site, we move across to the drupal site for our main site
[02:07] <jsgotangco> *trust me*
[02:07] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Fine by me.
[02:07] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i have a policy to never trust anyone who says "trust me"
[02:08] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: lol ok i take that as a compliment
[02:08] <jsgotangco> :D
[02:08] <highvoltage> JaneW: meeting notes better?
[02:08] <kjcole> In any case, we made good progress, hand-editing hard-copies, and trimmed quite a bit.
[02:08] <mhz> JaneW: yesterday night, I mentioned to Seveas that not having edubuntu-es or anything regarding ubuntu, may cause newcomers a little problem IF we find no proper conduct in there (we can't slap or kick)
[02:09] <mhz> JaneW: so I'll ping him on friday if the person who registered edubunt-es doesn't show up, and Seveas is working on some 'guidlines'
[02:09] <JaneW> mhz: I'll pick up in #edubuntu when I return ok?
[02:09] <mhz> okis
[02:09] <ogra> mhz, we normally dont slap or kick people ...
[02:10] <flint> highvoltage, my feeling about drupal  is "once a philosopher, twice a pervert"  what can it hurt to try...
[02:10] <JaneW> mhz: sounds like you need a CoC
[02:10] <mhz> ogra: hehehe, you know what i mean
[02:10] <mhz> CoC?
[02:10] <ogra> mhz, first target is to convince by talking ...
[02:10] <highvoltage> flint: naked people is part of ubuntu's heritage
[02:10] <flint> JaneW, enjoy the kidos i'm for coffee for 5 minutes...
[02:10] <mhz> ogra: sure, that's why i said IF
[02:10] <JaneW> flint: k, send me pics of yours!
[02:10] <kjcole> mhz and another fellow (toxictoadz) have joined the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks, and I'm probably looking at them for translation work...
[02:10] <ogra> mhz, we kicked exactly one troll in #edubuntu it its whole existance .... after trying to convince 2 weeks
[02:10] <kjcole> mhz, yes?
[02:11] <highvoltage> wow, not bad.
[02:11] <mhz> ogra: really? who?
[02:11] <highvoltage> bill gates? he's been trolling a lot lately.
[02:11] <Seveas> ghe, in #ubuntu the kick rate is somewhat highrt :)
[02:11] <mhz> kjcole: sorry, lost me... what?
[02:11] <jsgotangco> i remember that....
[02:11] <ogra> mhz, kicking should be the very last resort ... and you should be able to contact the owner within this timeframe
[02:11] <flint> I was hoping to be elected troll...
[02:12] <ogra> mhz, she was called JenniferX
[02:12] <mhz> ogra: indeed
[02:12] <highvoltage> meeting finished?
[02:12] <flint> I am a troll befor coffee. back in 5
[02:12] <ogra> meeting finished !
[02:12] <spacey> ok:)
[02:12] <ogra> thanks all
[02:12] <kjcole> mhz, I think I recently approved you in the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks... I'm figuring you for translation work.  Am I right?
[02:12] <ogra> lets move over to #edubuntu for general chatter
[02:12] <mhz> kjcole: oh, yes
[02:12] <mhz> kjcole: and if possible, KISS docs
[02:13] <ogra> and make this room free for the others ...
[02:14] <Seveas> 8 bytes of topic saved :o)
[02:15] <mhz> :)
[02:47] <lamont> ogra: livefs build is now scheduled (missed one spot), but it doesn't build atm
[02:47] <ogra> lamont-away, because of the uninstallables ?
[02:50] <lamont-away> yes
[02:55] <ogra> ok, so this should be fine with flight 2 preparation ... apart from kino we have the same uninstallables ubuntu has ...


[00:01] <antdedyet> Sweet, Ubuntu is offered by Hostway now
[00:02] <antdedyet> Finally, I have some push to move a big client of mine over from RedHat.
[00:13] <Gargoyle> goodnight all
[01:07] <ScottK> Who was the ebox guy?
[01:08] <ScottK> I commented on your libtree-perl package on REVU.
[03:37]  * emgent night.
[06:34] <Icehawk78> Is there a way to kill a process (a Ruby script, specifically) and then start it again every x hours through SSH?
[07:29] <milestone_> hi all i am running ubuntu on both server and desktop. Now i have a question when there comes a new ubuntu release say from feisty to gutsy, my update-notifier tells me, "hey there i s new release. Do you want to upgrade? " Is there something similar for the server? Or do I need to edit the sources.list by hand?
[07:30] <pteague> i think you'll have to change the sources.list, but i'm not sure... there's a url around somewhere that has info on upgrading versions, but i don't remember... let me see if i can find it
[07:32] <pteague> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
[07:33] <pteague> go into whichever version you need & there should be a network upgrade for ubuntu servers section
[07:33] <milestone_> ok thx
[07:34] <pteague> np, if you have a software raid array you may have issues with that...  i had to re-add 1 of the drives & let it rebuild the backup
[08:12] <_ruben> to upgrade a server use: sudo do-release-upgrade
[09:00] <milestone_> question about locale configuration on gutsy
[09:00] <milestone_> it says install locales reconifugre locales install localeconf reconfigure localeconf
[09:00] <milestone_> but i remember a nice dialog where i could choose which locales i can generate with locale-gen
[09:01] <milestone_> is that gone?
[09:01] <kgoetz> yes. iirc two releases ago
[09:01] <milestone_> i want more than one locale because i am running squirrelmail and it is working with compiled locales
[09:02] <milestone_> kgoetz: why? does it really make sense?
[09:02] <milestone_> so i run locale-gen with the locales i need, correct?
[09:02] <kgoetz> milestone_: dont remember. just remember it got pulled
[09:03] <milestone_> kgoetz: yeah no worries
[09:03] <milestone_> i see that reconfigre locales will re-generate even those locales i generated with locale-gen
[09:53] <Gargoyle> Morning
[11:13] <kraut> moin
[12:25] <zul> morning
[13:09] <AnRkey> i am having problems with my nfs server
[13:09] <AnRkey> I can create and delete dir's and files
[13:09] <AnRkey> can't edit them
[13:10] <AnRkey> output from nano:  Error writing new file: Invalid argument
[13:10] <AnRkey> gedit, openoffice and others give more or less the same error
[13:10] <AnRkey> any help would be cool
[16:29] <CarlFK> gutsy - Package `locale' is not installed and no info is available.
[16:30] <CarlFK> E: Couldn't find package locale
[16:30] <CarlFK> apt-cache search locale = about 1 million hits
[16:33] <coffeedude> CarlFK: Its "apt-get install locales".
[16:36] <CarlFK> coffeedude: just found that on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=397005
[16:37] <CarlFK> which is the real problem, and folloing all of those sugestions didn't help
[16:41] <coffeedude> CarlFK: ahhh....ok.
[18:45] <zul> does anyone have an opinnon on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/182086?
[18:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182086 in dovecot "dovecot-common postinst fails for multiple ssl certs" [Medium,Triaged]
[18:49] <nxvl_work> zul: the grep is only checking if there is any ssl cert
[18:49] <nxvl_work> zul: not using it
[18:50] <nxvl_work> if there is one it uses it, if not, it creates one
[18:50] <nxvl_work> so the solution is a good one
[18:51] <nxvl_work> IMHO
[18:51] <zul> ok good
[18:58] <CarlFK> what is the #u-doc  chan name?
[18:58] <CarlFK> or is there one?
[18:59] <sommer> CarlFK: #ubuntu-doc
[18:59] <CarlFK> huh - must have misspelled it. thanks
[19:42] <reya276> having a bit of an issue, for some reson postfix stopped sending and receiving emails, any ideas why that might happen, nothing has changed except for some normal updates to Ubuntu yesterday
[19:42] <reya276> this is the only thing in my mail error log "Jan 24 14:31:49 krusty postfix/sendmail[9858]: fatal: usage: sendmail [options]"
[19:46] <Goosemoose> hi guys, has the addon for hardy been finished to enable the simple authentication against an AD domain?
[19:54] <dho_ragus> reya276: whenever i have to troubleshoot mail problems i use `tcpflow port 25`, send mail, then dig through the output of the dump.
[19:54] <dho_ragus> reya276: another thing to do is to do dpkg-reconfigure on your mail package
[19:55] <dho_ragus> i've had mail problems that have been resolved by both of those.
[19:57] <reya276> thanks, but the issue seems to be fixed as It was an update from yesterday that was left unattended and BIND was going to change a script so it was waiting for someone to give the ok
[20:19] <sommer> soren: hello, is there a way to use virt-manager from the cli?
[21:17] <Goosemoose2> Sincerely,
[21:17] <Goosemoose2> Dominic Maricic
[21:17] <Goosemoose2> Home Inspector Pro
[21:17] <Goosemoose2> http://www.HomeInspectorPro.com
[21:17] <Goosemoose2> Toll Free: 1-888-750-4777
[21:17] <Goosemoose2> oops, wrong window, sorry
[21:21] <Goosemoose2> hate it when that hapens. does anyone know if the new module to connect ubuntu to an AD server via hardy is ready
[21:25] <jetole_> hey guys, some tech at our company, probably me but thats besides the point, just did a rm -rf /usr/lib on a server, is there a way using a CD I can fix this? I was able to do a dpkg --get-selections before ssh dropped me but using apt-get --reinstall failed with missing libs
[21:27] <zul> i think you might be screwed
[21:27] <zul> but then again you might not
[21:28] <infinity> debootstrap a base system to a chroot, copy over enough libs to make dpkg and apt happy again, then do the --reinstall dance.
[21:37] <jetole_> infinity: thanks
[21:37] <jetole_> infinity: you want to do that for me?
[21:37] <jetole_> j/k


[13:11] <cyphermox> jibel: yes indeed
[13:14] <jibel> cyphermox, it's fixed on bzr
[13:24] <cyphermox> jibel: thanks, sorry about that
[13:35] <jibel> cyphermox, np


[16:04] <jrgifford> belkinsa: congrats!
[16:04] <jrgifford> merry christmas all. :)
[16:08] <belkinsa> On the Nexus 7?
[16:08] <belkinsa> If so, thank you.
[16:09] <jrgifford> Yes
[16:09] <belkinsa> I don't know what I will do with it...dual boot or just boot Ubuntu Touch, if I can get that working.
[16:09] <jrgifford> it can sometimes take a bit for the directions on the rooting process to trickle down/get translated for ubuntu
[16:09] <jrgifford> I have the previous gen, it's not bad.
[16:10] <belkinsa> I have it rooted and unlocked
[16:11] <belkinsa> Well, now I have a reason to come to OFL 2014.  :)
[16:13] <belkinsa> Okay, it seems that I need to dual boot instead of just having Ubuntu Touch at this moment.
[16:14] <belkinsa> Or I need to do more homework.
[23:21] <jrgifford> is it a nexus 7 1 or 2?
[23:22] <belkinsa> The 2013 version is what I know
[23:39] <jrgifford> OK
[23:40] <jrgifford> I don't think  ubuntu touch was supported...
[23:52] <belkinsa> For Tablets, yes.


[10:46] <alex88> hi guys, i've this problem, my controller is not supported by actual kernel.
[10:47] <alex88> i've a patch given me by the sata kernel developer that should work.. how can i compile a kernel and apply to a live cd to let me install it?
[10:52] <Jordan_U> alex88: That would be pretty tedious to do. If possible, I'd reocommend installing Ubuntu on another machine, installing the patched kernel, then swapping the drive into the problem PC.
[10:53] <alex88> it's impossible.. the drives are 2 sata-6 in raid0.. so i can't move from there..:S
[10:58] <Jordan_U> alex88: Yet another reason not use FakeRAID in the future :)
[10:59] <Jordan_U> alex88: Can you bring over another drive and just dd it to the array?
[10:59] <alex88_> nope..i only have 2 sata ports
[11:00] <alex88_> why fakeraid? isn't it real raid?
[11:04] <Jordan_U> alex88: I doubt that you have a real RAID card unless it's a high end server.
[11:06] <Jordan_U> alex88: No USB flash drives?
[12:10] <alex88> Jordan_U, is this fine to do that? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[12:30] <alex88> cause i have to patch /drivers/ata/ahci.c b/drivers/ata/ahci.c is possible just to build the module?
[12:56]  * penguin42 wonders where his swap partition went
[13:09] <rxd> any new kernel for maverick which has lzma support on the kernel?
[13:16] <Daekdroom> !maverick | rxd
[13:17] <Daekdroom> and the support for it is at #ubuntu , not here
[13:32] <roland> hi, how to enable natty narwhal repositories?
[13:34] <jussi>  roland, the basic thing here is, at this point, if you dont knw how to do it, then you probably sholdnt - is there a particular reason you want to?
[13:35] <roland> I just wan't to testdrive newest features
[13:36] <roland> i'm running it in virutal machine anyway, so if it brakes down, theres no harm done
[13:36] <roland> breaks*
[13:39] <Daekdroom> roland, if it's in a virtual machine, you're better off installing natty in the VM right away instead of updating to it
[13:39] <ikonia> roland: what features do you want to test drive ?
[13:42] <roland> Daekdroom: i'll just do that then
[13:42] <roland> ikonia: whatever new and interesting there might be, dolphin should have some new things for instance
[13:43] <ikonia> roland: if you want to test "new" stuff, I find it important to known what new stuff there actually is, and it's current state in the release cycle/build before blindly upgrading with no experience
[13:46] <roland> ikonia: well, if you don't want me messing around with natty, then I just don't care what you think
[13:47] <ikonia> I don't not "want" you messing around
[13:47] <ikonia> roland: based on your comments though I won't be assisting you attempt to use natty, so I don't "care what you think"
[14:00] <roland> ikonia: sry if I upset you anyway, it wasn't intentional
[14:40] <BUGabundo> and gnome-panel-bonobo fixed my applets. YAY
[14:40] <BUGabundo> no idea why it isn't being pulled
[14:40] <BUGabundo> ubuntu-desktop is installed
[16:14] <lamalex> anyone know if there is some known linker breakage in natty?
[16:17] <mirak> hi
[16:17] <crimsun> lamalex: as in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-November/031991.html ?
[16:19] <lamalex> crimsun, would that affect compiling things manually with gcc?
[16:20] <lamalex> wait duh sorry
[16:23] <lamalex> crimsun, does this mostly cause run time failures, or could failed symbol lookup be a concequence
[16:23] <crimsun> both
[16:28] <lamalex> ok, I think I might be getting bitten by this
[16:36] <lamalex> crimsun, I'm trying to link directly to glib and it's failing to look up symbols
[16:36] <lamalex> like g_printf :P
[16:44] <lamalex> Maybe the bigger question, is does compiz segfault for anyone else
[16:45] <lamalex> the segfault comes from our distro patch for gsettings migration, and occurs in gio_file_new_for_path
[17:07] <penguin42> anyone else seeing a loss of the UUID of their swap device after a natty upgrade? It almost looks like bug 295203 - but that's install time
[17:08] <yofel> penguin42: in fstab? why should that be changed by an upgrade?
[17:09] <penguin42> yofel: I don't think it's fstab that's broken - blkid won't give me a uuid from the swap partition
[17:09] <yofel> it does here: /dev/sda6: UUID="87a0c251-8faf-479c-a6c9-367373f75cfe" TYPE="swap"
[17:10] <penguin42> yeh, you're right - that bug is it screwing the uuid in fstab, so is irrelevant
[17:10] <penguin42> yofel: Nope, no output here
[17:12] <penguin42> the fact that my fstab has a uuid for the swap file suggests it did have at some point
[17:13]  * penguin42 isn't entirely sure where the uuid is supposed to come from
[17:14] <yofel> not sure, but mkswap does print an UUID when you format a swap drive
[17:15]  * penguin42 isn't entirely sure what to file this bug against
[17:15] <penguin42> libuuid1?
[17:18] <yofel> what happens if you run blkid with the drive as argument?
[17:25] <penguin42> nothing
[17:25] <penguin42> Just reported it as bug 682176
[20:17] <ChrisBuchholz> Hi guys. I am curious. How will natty work for people that wants to use gnome-shell instead of unity? Will it be seamless, or will it be "a mess"?
[20:17] <penguin42> ChrisBuchholz: I don't honestly know, but if Gnome-shell is packaged it should be pretty easy
[20:18] <penguin42> ChrisBuchholz: You can already run a whole different bunch of window managers, so one more won't be much different - I think it just comes down to if Gnome-shell is properly packaged which I suspect it will be
[20:19] <ChrisBuchholz> penguin42: i see. So i guess i dont have to fear ubuntu - i have been using fedora, but only ubuntu (via the mactel ppas on launchpad) has proper support for my macbook pro, so i am considering switching to ubuntu, but i will be a gnome-shell user
[20:20] <penguin42> ChrisBuchholz: There are a few things that Ubuntu changes that are harder to avoid; in particular some of the changes to do with the notification area - I'm not sure how that will work with gnome shell; however you won't be the only gnome shell user I'm sure
[20:20] <ChrisBuchholz> penguin42: i see
[20:21] <ChrisBuchholz> penguin42: thank you. I think i will go ask at #gnome-shell too
[23:01] <BUGabundo> mew
[23:01] <BUGabundo> so I got the new desktop version
[23:01] <BUGabundo> managed to get into Classic (under for how long)
[23:01] <BUGabundo> compiz is broken
[23:01] <BUGabundo> so is jockey
[23:01] <BUGabundo> just reported that last bug
[23:11] <penguin42> BUGabundo: Do you have swap?
[23:11] <BUGabundo> no
[23:11] <BUGabundo> no swap
[23:11] <BUGabundo> on ssd
[23:12] <penguin42> I meant did you have any setup and does it work; but I guess your answer means you didn't have any set up?
[23:13] <BUGabundo> correct
[23:14]  * penguin42 is just building blkid and friends to fgure out why mine doesn't
[23:18] <yofel> penguin42: as reference using my swap: sudo strace blkid /dev/sda6 http://paste.ubuntu.com/537272/
[23:19] <penguin42> yofel: I've got the current git built here I'm going to take a debugger to if it doesn't behave
[23:19] <yofel> heh


[20:58] <bodhi_zazen> back :)
[20:58] <Snova> Good timing.
[20:58] <LaRoza> bodhi_zazen: I heard you were elected to the Council?
[20:58] <LaRoza> Congratulations
[20:59] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you LaRoza :)
[20:59] <jacob> one minute eh?
[20:59] <LaRoza> bapoumba too. You too were always very patient, much more so than I.
[20:59] <LaRoza> (You two)
[21:00] <bapoumba> Hello LaRoza
[21:00] <Snova> Oh, hi bapoumba. :)
[21:00] <bapoumba> Hey Snova
[21:00] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[21:00] <LaRoza> Hello bapoumba. Congratulations to you also. I only learned of it when I went to the wiki last week
[21:00] <forumsmatthew> FC roll call. Who's here?
[21:00] <bapoumba> Thanks LaRoza
[21:01] <bapoumba> .o/
[21:01] <Technoviking> here on the IRC Satillite of Love
[21:03] <forumsmatthew> let's wait a couple of more minutes to see if KiwiNZ and ubuntu-geek can make it.
[21:03] <Suomalainen> Suomalainen here
[21:03] <Technoviking> here is the agaenda
[21:03] <Technoviking> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[21:03] <bodhi_zazen> hey forumsmatthew :)
[21:04] <bapoumba> Hello bodhi_zazen btw :D
[21:04] <Rocket2DMn> i made it in time :)
[21:05] <Technoviking> While we wait for our other member, I want to welcome our new FC members  bapoumba and bodhi_zazen
[21:05] <bodhi_zazen> :p everyone
[21:05] <bapoumba> Thanks Technoviking :)
[21:05] <Technoviking> also, any of our new staff here that want to say hi
[21:05] <ibuclaw> o/
[21:05] <forestpixie> hi
[21:07] <bodhi_zazen> and thank you Technoviking :)
[21:07] <forumsmatthew> let's wait just a couple more minutes...
[21:09] <forumsmatthew> yay!
[21:09] <bodhi_zazen> schedule got full :)
[21:09] <bodhi_zazen> hey ubuntugeek :)
[21:09] <ubuntugeek> Hello, sorry I am late got pulled into a server problem :)
[21:09] <forumsmatthew> okay, I don't think Kiwi is coming, so shall we get started?
[21:09] <jdong> sure.
[21:09] <bapoumba> hello u-g :)
[21:10] <ubuntugeek> Yes, lets start
[21:10] <forumsmatthew> TV already posted it, but here's the agenda link again
[21:10] <forumsmatthew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[21:10] <Technoviking> LaRoza
[21:10] <Technoviking> Lifting of ban previously imposed on the LaRoza account, or permission to make a new account
[21:10] <LaRoza> Present
[21:10] <forumsmatthew> let's hear it
[21:11] <LaRoza> After my banning, I had not planned on trying to get it lifted
[21:11] <LaRoza> But now, after some time (and a lot of changes in RL), I would like to be able to use the forum again
[21:11] <LaRoza> At the time of my banning, I had forsaken my original purpose of using the forum (tech support). I had only used the PT section and the Cafe
[21:12] <LaRoza> After looking at the forum for a support issue (someone talked to me on IRC and sent a link), I noticed a few changes (closing of Other OS talk for one) and I was wanting to go back to giving the tech support I used to give on the forum
[21:12] <LaRoza> I do it still in RL for others (two new recent Ubuntu users) although I don't use Ubuntu anymore, it is the one I recommend to others
[21:13] <ubuntugeek> The incident that lead to the ban broke just about every rule we have in place.
[21:13] <LaRoza> Yes, I realise that now
[21:13] <LaRoza> At the time, I didn't actually.
[21:13] <LaRoza> (Which is why I didn't contest it, because I didn't understand)
[21:13] <LaRoza> But I understand now
[21:13] <LaRoza> It was very rude of me
[21:13] <LaRoza> Although it was not my intention, one shouldn't tolerate someone so oblivious to other's feelings
[21:14] <LaRoza> (Hence, the ban).
[21:14] <forumsmatthew> You didn't realize that taking personal information off of a hard drive in a computer donated to you by a staff member and then using it to access that person's account (illegally) and then brag about it on IRC was somehow against the rules? (Not to mention basic courtesy?)
[21:14] <jdong> "rude" wouldn't be my choice of terminology either...
[21:14] <LaRoza> I didn't see it as that. I never intended to access the drive and it was an accident that led to it booting the HD, and another accident which led to being logged in
[21:15] <LaRoza> I also wiped the drive right after and didn't even try to get any information off of it
[21:15] <bodhi_zazen> may I suggest we not re-hash the indecent ? we all know what happened >:)
[21:15] <LaRoza> (I didn't look at bookmarks or use the browser for anything else. It did however open with the UF logged in)
[21:15] <forumsmatthew> where does the posting from someone else's account and bragging about it on irc fit into your claim of innocence?
[21:16] <LaRoza> I didn't say I was innocent
[21:16] <ubuntugeek> -1 from me, I believe in giving people chances, but I think the incident broke any trust I have.
[21:16] <LaRoza> I said I wasn't malicious
[21:16] <bapoumba> -1 here too
[21:16] <forumsmatthew> we never thought you were malicious, just that you demonstrated terrible judgment and betrayed the trust placed in you
[21:16] <LaRoza> Yes, I agree
[21:17] <forumsmatthew> this after many discussions with you where we bent over backwards to try to help you, guide you, teach you, etc
[21:17] <ubuntugeek> OK, I think we heard would the rest of the FC vote :)
[21:17] <forumsmatthew> -1 from me
[21:17] <LaRoza> guide and teach me?
[21:17] <Technoviking> -1 here,
[21:17] <bodhi_zazen> -1 from me also, although I would also say I am happy to see you have moved on LaRoza and wish you luck in your new ventures :)
[21:17] <forumsmatthew> best wishes in real life
[21:18] <LaRoza> Oh, one more thing
[21:18] <LaRoza> You may have heard rumours about an account I use. That is false. Others made that up and they won't believe me when I say I don't use the forum...
[21:18] <forumsmatthew> okay
[21:18] <jdong> -1 from me based on the given statements...
[21:19] <LaRoza> WOuld there have been anything I could have said to get +1?
[21:19] <bapoumba> As of today ?
[21:19] <forumsmatthew> unlikely, but there is always a chance. We listened
[21:19] <ubuntugeek> Nothing from my perspective as of today, sorry.
[21:19] <LaRoza> Er, I didn't know time was a factor, but I guess so
[21:19] <bodhi_zazen> may I suggest we move on ? we have a full agenda ::)
[21:20] <jdong> I don't exactly have a dictionary of criteria for that. Just what was said didn't move me. Not today.
[21:20] <ubuntugeek> Lets move on
[21:20] <forumsmatthew> Kiwi isn't here, so let's skip the next one
[21:20] <forumsmatthew> is linuxisevolution here?
[21:20] <bodhi_zazen> kk
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> alright, next item then
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> Eliminating post/bean count entirely, except in the database, or maybe only on profile pages and not on every post's info bar.
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> we've talked about this a lot, but not done it
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> what does everyone think?
[21:21] <bodhi_zazen> +1, or at least hiding it
[21:21] <Rocket2DMn> o/
[21:22] <jdong> how will titles be handled?
[21:22] <ubuntugeek> Last I remember there was a option to hide/show it.. Is that not working?
[21:22] <bapoumba> +1, may be keep in profile (I'm undecided about that)
[21:22] <jacob> ubuntugeek: nope
[21:22] <Rocket2DMn> Why not re-enable the user's ability to hide it?
[21:22] <bodhi_zazen> ubuntugeek: no , that option broke :(
[21:22] <ubuntugeek> I'd rather fix that then remove it to be honest
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> there is an option, but we had talked about removing the count entirely from public view by default
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> okay
[21:22] <Technoviking> -1 Prefer to keep the post count up, useless we could get the Thanks plugin working
[21:22] <forumsmatthew> the titles shouldn't be affected at all
[21:22] <jdong> originally my only motivation for having a postcount is for people to gauge the reputation of a person giving a response...
[21:23] <jdong> and I don't see anything that would replace that.
[21:23] <paultag> o/
[21:23] <jdong> join date doesn't quite do the same thing and as Technoviking said, thanks is gone
[21:23] <ubuntugeek> I think that post count is pretty irrelevant to ones knowledge, but I also think removing it will cause more drama then we want to deal with :) So giving the option seems the best way.
[21:23] <forumsmatthew> I'm fine with that (actually don't have much of an opinion either way, but got tired of revisiting it) :)
[21:24] <bapoumba> it would be nice to at least be able to hide again
[21:24] <ubuntugeek> OK, I'll fix that
[21:24] <bodhi_zazen> thanks :)
[21:24] <paultag> Perhaps having a Karma system, where posts can be rated up and down would work. This open the option of people marking down for disagreeing, but karma would be a good way to watching users's reputations
[21:24] <Technoviking> ubuntugeek: are we willing to try the Thank plugin again  with the new hardware, or will that be too much of a stain on the DB
[21:24] <bapoumba> it broke with mast big software upgrade
[21:24] <jdong> I'm +1 for users voluntarily being able to hide their own postcount.
[21:24] <jdong> paultag: looking at digg/slashdot/etc IMO +1/-1 systems don't do what they're intended on doing
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> jdong, +1 on hiding ability
[21:25] <ubuntugeek> Technoviking: There is NO WAY I will put that plugin back on the forums.
[21:25] <Technoviking> +1 on optional hiding
[21:25] <ubuntugeek> +1 for optional hiding, I'll fix it this week.
[21:25] <bapoumba> paultag, karma lead people to abuse it
[21:25] <bapoumba> even the thanks were abused
[21:25] <jacob> paultag: karma systems are used more for "I agree with this" rather than "this post was helpful" like it should be
[21:25] <bodhi_zazen> +1 for hiding (assuming it is possible)
[21:25] <forumsmatthew> we used to have karma enabled (a very long time ago). It didn't go well
[21:25] <ubuntugeek> The thanks plugin was poorly written, it works well for small forums. However, a forum of our size and the way the plugin works causes to much strain on the database.
[21:25] <bapoumba> +1 for hiding too
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> okay, I think we have consensus. am I right?
[21:26] <bodhi_zazen> Ah, that makes sense ubuntugeek
[21:26] <ubuntugeek> yes, lets move on
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> jacob, you here?
[21:27] <jacob> forumsmatthew: yep
[21:27] <jacob> tutorials & tips: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1119286
[21:27] <jacob> or http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f171557d2 for non-staff
[21:27] <jacob> tl;dr: Tutorials & Tips should have a subforum visible only to staff and the OP for work-in-progress tutorials.
[21:27] <jacob> This would greatly reduce confusion between on-the-line tutorials and communication with the OP.
[21:28] <jacob> dmizer had another idea to the tutorials & tips problem at the end of that thread, linked from the first post
[21:29] <bapoumba> I agree that something needs to be done to the T&T approval process
[21:29] <forumsmatthew> if I understand the proposal correctly, and there is no guarantee of that, then the change would not actually fix the date issue on the tutorial posts, would it?
[21:29] <bodhi_zazen> T&T is a huge topic :)
[21:29] <jacob> it's quite a beefy post about it, but I don't think T&T is really as simple as it is right now
[21:29] <jacob> forumsmatthew: it would not fix that (if you mean the bumping issue)
[21:29] <forumsmatthew> precisely
[21:29] <jacob> I still don't know how to work around that
[21:30] <jacob> staff could give posts a bump once approved, I suppose
[21:30] <jacob> which would work well with any system in place
[21:30] <bodhi_zazen> I was going to suggest we encourage people to use the wiki and / or try to get a dedicated team on T&T
[21:30] <bodhi_zazen> I think our user base is more sophisticated and tutorials are more complex now
[21:31] <jacob> bodhi_zazen: yeah, but it's a lot more difficult to get people to post on the wiki if you know what I mean
[21:31] <bodhi_zazen> It seems to me we almost need to have 2 staff review submissions
[21:31] <bapoumba> and it needs to be "headed" by Staff too
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> the wiki is a great idea. I'm not sure we would be successful at convincing people to post on it (there was a concerted effort directed at that some years ago that didn't go well). It might be good to develop a T&T team
[21:31] <ubuntugeek> forumsmatthew: +1
[21:31] <jacob> forumsmatthew: that's dmizer's idea, which definitely makes sense
[21:32] <jdong> I'd really like T&T to be a wiki based feature....
[21:32] <jdong> with some discussion mechanism linking back to the forums.
[21:32] <bapoumba> I'm sure there is a need for a T&T team
[21:32] <jdong> the forums are great for discussions. The wiki is great for maintainable guildes.
[21:32] <jdong> guides*
[21:32] <jacob> jdong: it would be nice, but getting people to actually do it is a different story
[21:32] <bapoumba> couls also bring the T of the week back on tracks
[21:32] <ubuntugeek> Sorry all I have to step out for another meeting. See you all!
[21:32] <bodhi_zazen> We could team -> transition to wiki ?
[21:32] <jacob> bye ubuntugeek
[21:32] <forumsmatthew> bye, u-g
[21:33] <bapoumba> bye ubuntugeek :)
[21:33] <bapoumba> too late..
[21:33] <jacob> bodhi_zazen: definitely possible, though it would take quite a large amount of work
[21:33] <sdennie> jdong: Having written a number of tutorials, I really prefer to have them on the forums.  The interactive nature of it helps a lot in refining the tutorial.
[21:33] <bodhi_zazen> I think people are willing to wiki if they are taught how to wiki , thus there is some effort with that too
[21:33] <ibuclaw> sdennie++
[21:33] <forumsmatthew> bodhi_zazen, that was done internally once with a project we called the UDSF (ask compiledkernel). If we get volunteers to train people to use the official wiki, it might work
[21:33] <jacob> the wiki doesn't allow us to moderate tutorials for that matter, but that might not be relevant since they would be on a different site
[21:33] <bodhi_zazen> I am not sure about eliminating T&T, rather promoting wiki as well
[21:34] <forumsmatthew> I like having the content on the forums, though
[21:34] <forumsmatthew> if produced by forums people, they generally feel more comfortable here
[21:34] <forumsmatthew> moving them to the official wiki would connect us to the greater community, though, and certainly be appreciated (hopefully...)
[21:34] <jdong> sdennie: well I hope that the interactive part can be captured in a discussion thread
[21:34] <jdong> sdennie: I think this is one of those cases that needs a hybrid approach.
[21:34] <jacob> bodhi_zazen: +1, I would definitely like to se an effort to copy/move some to the wiki, though IMO they should stay in T&T
[21:35] <bodhi_zazen> I am not sure about moving posts to wiki
[21:35] <bapoumba> forums people usually like and prefer writing on forums :)
[21:35] <bodhi_zazen> but wiki has a number of advantages and we should use those as well
[21:35] <bapoumba> or they would already wiki their production
[21:35] <ShadowChild> bapoumba, +1
[21:36] <sdennie> jdong: Possibly.  A wikipedia style approach with the content and discussion would work but, it doesn't really address that a lot of the tutorials are very technical in nature and questions, rather than discussion arise.
[21:36] <bodhi_zazen> I like t&t on the forums though, and I do not see eliminating that section
[21:36] <Technoviking> I like keeping T&T but prompted publishing items there to the wiki
[21:36] <Rocket2DMn> The advantage of having posts on the forums is that they can easily fade away when they are no longer applicable - its obvious how old they are
[21:36] <ibuclaw> jdong, I think people just feel an overall "more relaxed" about posting tutorials on the forums in general... As opposed to when using wiki, there is an uncomfortable formalness around everything you do.
[21:37] <forumsmatthew> this is what I am hearing: the current system isn't ideal and we want to do something to help it. We don't really think that the main idea would be helpful, but getting a team together to make it more efficient might. Possibly using some sort of collaboration with the wiki team would be good, too.
[21:37] <jacob> ibuclaw: agreed
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> I love the wiki, but stuff tends to get abandoned there when not maintained
[21:37] <forumsmatthew> Rocket2DMn, yep
[21:37] <bodhi_zazen> +1 forumsmatthew :)
[21:37] <bapoumba> forumsmatthew, we used to have K.Mandla take care of most of it :)
[21:37] <bapoumba> and it worked well
[21:38] <bapoumba> because they spent a lot of time for T&T
[21:38] <bodhi_zazen> I think we should make a collaborative effort
[21:38] <jdong> Rocket2DMn: the asme thing happens with forum howto's
[21:38] <forumsmatthew> my opinion: I would rather look for someone willing to head up sorting through T&T regularly and who will develop a team to work alongside them
[21:38] <jacob> forumsmatthew: +1 - though should we do anything about the moderation in T&T right now if we're to be encouraging posting on the wiki?
[21:38] <jdong> Rocket2DMn: the wiki IMO makes it easier to maintain but that doesn't mean people will do it
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> yes jdong , but like i said, you can easily see their age just by looking at the date
[21:38] <jdong> forming a team around it is probably a better idea.
[21:38] <jdong> Rocket2DMn: the wiki is similarly marked at the bottom of each page
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> jdong, only for the latest update to the page, which doesnt really mean anything
[21:39] <forumsmatthew> I don't want to change the moderation for now. Let's see if a leader emerges and a team develops and revisit the issue once that is in place
[21:39] <bodhi_zazen> I think it has grown to be too large for just one person, let along the depth of technical knowledge in some of them :)
[21:39] <bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, +1
[21:39] <bodhi_zazen> And that is really the problem
[21:39] <bapoumba> we need several persons to take care of it
[21:39] <jacob> right
[21:39] <bapoumba> I am guilty as can be..
[21:39] <bodhi_zazen> we need a team and process to review T&T with regularity
[21:40] <sdennie> I like the team idea too
[21:40] <bapoumba> (I only move out support questions..)
[21:40] <jacob> same
[21:40]  * jdong agrees with the team idea
[21:40] <forumsmatthew> proposal: one FC member steps up now and takes responsibility for leading the search for a team leader, helping them understand what we are thinking, and we go from there
[21:40] <bodhi_zazen> How about setting a goal, weekly thread on T&T in the que and we can see how the team develops ?
[21:41] <Rocket2DMn> You could do a T&T Hug Day, like they do for bugs :)
[21:41] <jacob> forumsmatthew: sounds good, anything to clean it up from what it is now :)
[21:41] <jacob> Rocket2DMn: heh, that could actually work
[21:41] <ibuclaw> Rocket2DMn, haha
[21:41] <bapoumba> but the current T&T, before approval, are hidden
[21:42] <bapoumba> so it needs to be a staff team?
[21:42] <forumsmatthew> jacob, not yet, let's start slowly and see where each change takes us. We know what we have to deal with as things are. Let's only introduce unknowns slowly as we move on
[21:42] <bapoumba> or do we revisit the status of T&T section ?
[21:42] <forumsmatthew> we could make it a non-staff team that gets mod abilities in just that forum
[21:42] <jacob> forumsmatthew: right - that's fine, I would just like to see it get cleaned up eventually
[21:42] <forumsmatthew> me to
[21:42] <bapoumba> yeah, +1
[21:43] <forumsmatthew> do we have a consensus?
[21:43] <bapoumba> I think so
[21:43] <bodhi_zazen> no, just some good ideas :)
[21:43] <bapoumba> eheh :)
[21:44] <forumsmatthew> shall we start by finding a leader? and if so, who will be responsible to head that search and report to the FC so we can move ahead?
[21:44] <bodhi_zazen> I think start by asking for volunters from the staff, of people willing to dedicate so much time / week on T&T ?
[21:44] <bodhi_zazen> 1-2 hours ?
[21:44] <bodhi_zazen> that will generate a team -> go from there
[21:44] <jacob> I might be able to get something going
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> lol, Staff Focus Group
[21:45] <jacob> Rocket2DMn: :P
[21:45] <Rocket2DMn> those not on the BT didnt understand :(
[21:45] <Snova> Ha.
[21:45] <jacob> Rocket2DMn: who isn't on BT these days? ;)
[21:45] <forumsmatthew> sounds good to me. use the staff forum, jacob, to start the discussion with others who aren't here, and we will let you head up the development
[21:45] <forumsmatthew> all in favor?
[21:45] <forumsmatthew> +1
[21:45] <bapoumba> some people resist the BT ;)
[21:46] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[21:46] <Technoviking> +1
[21:46] <bapoumba> +1
[21:46] <sdennie> I've neglected my duties in T&T but, would be willing to spend some more time there.  ibuclaw would also be another good person.
[21:46] <Rocket2DMn> give all the work to jacob +1 :)
[21:46] <jacob> sounds good ;)
[21:46] <forumsmatthew> jdong?
[21:46] <bapoumba> I think dmizer should be interested too
[21:46] <jacob> bapoumba: definitely
[21:47] <jdong> ack sorry
[21:47] <jdong> +1
[21:47] <bodhi_zazen> cal also ;P
[21:47] <forumsmatthew> great! let's move on to our last item--congrats, jacob!
[21:47] <forumsmatthew> suomalainen, are you here?
[21:47] <bapoumba> congrats jacob :)
[21:47] <jacob> heh, thanks
[21:47] <Suomalainen> yes I'm here.
[21:47] <forumsmatthew> what's going on?
[21:48] <bodhi_zazen> and what do you expect from the forums ?
[21:48] <forumsmatthew> how can we help you?
[21:49] <Suomalainen> I created a thread called "Skype Video Screen not functioning properly." which got some good responses. but then i started to receive responses saying I said things that I never said and I made note of that to the posters.
[21:49] <Suomalainen> Also, I'd like to say thank you for asking me to come here today  to speak.
[21:50] <forumsmatthew> did you report the posts? (You can do so to alert staff to problems by pressing the button that looks like this http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif )
[21:50] <bodhi_zazen> Suomalainen: when that happens, rather then argue with people, just report the post
[21:50] <Technoviking> Suomalainen: I read though both the Skype post and xo.org post. While some of forums members who responded to your post could have been more tactful
[21:51] <forumsmatthew> I do see where staff stepped in at post 20 and asked everyone to calm down, not to make personal attacks or debate those attacks, and to keep a professional attitude.
[21:51] <forumsmatthew> is there something else you would have liked for someone to have done?
[21:51] <Technoviking> I think you blew their comments our of proportion.
[21:52] <bodhi_zazen> Suomalainen: I would also like to point out you are asking about 3rd party applications / hardware
[21:52] <Suomalainen> I did use the button to report post.
[21:52] <forumsmatthew> great! that would explain why a forum staff member stepped in to calm the situation
[21:52] <Suomalainen> Also, when I'm told my country doesn't use english as PRIMARY language,,,  well........
[21:52] <forumsmatthew> that is an excellent first step
[21:52] <bodhi_zazen> and when those 3rd party apps / hardware do not work as you expect, you appear to rant @ the ubuntu community ;)
[21:53] <jdong> Suomalainen: you don't have to respond to such inappropriate insulting statements towards you. Ignore them, report them, etc and we will deal with it
[21:53] <jdong> Suomalainen: engaging the trolls always makes things escalate
[21:53] <forumsmatthew> that was before the staff member stepped in the first time
[21:53] <bodhi_zazen> not that that is a wrong attitude, it just causes "flame wars" so to speak
[21:53] <Suomalainen> The post for help from mod wasn't made at that time.
[21:54] <forumsmatthew> he posted after the remark that you were unhappy about. Then, you posted a long response that wasn't pleasant, so he stepped in again
[21:54] <forumsmatthew> I'm reading the thread now
[21:55] <Suomalainen> I like Ubuntu very much and I advocate to others Ubuntu. I was told that I back slapped the Ubuntu community and this is entirely untre.
[21:55] <Suomalainen> untre=untrue.
[21:55] <forumsmatthew> you took great offense to a comment that should not have been made, but your reaction is excessive. Someone came to your defense to calm the situation. It was being dealt with.
[21:56] <forumsmatthew> question, Suomalainen: do you have a second user account on the forums named lentomies?
[21:56] <bapoumba> Suomalainen, may I ask you if you have other accounts on UF ?
[21:57] <bapoumba> Lol !
[21:57] <Suomalainen> When you read my post others came to offer me help. Genuine help. I used this help and said thank you and reported my results. But then the make believe came into play and things were said about me and what I said that just should not have been stated.
[21:58] <Suomalainen> Yes I have another account the user is Lentomies.
[21:58] <forumsmatthew> and, as I stated, a staff member had intervened
[21:58] <Suomalainen> When you research that accout it is rarely used.
[21:58] <forumsmatthew> it is forbidden by the code of conduct for members to have more than one account. which do you want to keep?
[21:58] <bodhi_zazen> Well, I have also reviewed the posts and I must say I found some of your posts to be informatory as well Suomalainen :)
[21:58] <bapoumba> you know we do not allow users have several accounts, do you ?
[21:58] <bodhi_zazen> I see several people offering you advice as well
[21:58] <forumsmatthew> "inflammatory" is what I think bapoumba meant
[21:59] <Suomalainen> With Your permission I would like to keep my Suomalainen account if acceptable.
[21:59] <forumsmatthew> that would be fine. I'll disable the other account
[21:59] <forumsmatthew> back to the real issue: a staff member intervened. What more did you want to happen?
[22:00] <jdong> Suomalainen: In addition, you mentioned that you've attempted to reach us but attempts have "only fallen on deaf ears" in your words. I'm a bit concerned about that -- how did you try to reach us?
[22:00] <Suomalainen> And then I made another thread called "Are you an XORG.CONF file Expert???" and these guys follow me to here too and recall issues that happenen in this original post.
[22:00] <bodhi_zazen> I think things will go well with you Suomalainen if you try not to over react to the bad behavior of others, ie do not make a bad situation worse, and report bad behavior, ie allow the staff to handle bad behavior
[22:00] <forumsmatthew> you haven't answered my question
[22:00] <forumsmatthew> I'll discuss the second thread after you answer the question about the first
[22:01] <Suomalainen> I tried to reach nmoderators as this situation was occuring using the "report" button but nobody contacted me or came to my aid. Please go into my account and see.
[22:01] <bapoumba> we have your reports, no problem
[22:01] <forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1121621
[22:01] <bodhi_zazen> I have to get to another meeting :)
[22:01] <forumsmatthew> bye, bodhi_zazen
[22:01] <bapoumba> cheers bodhi :)
[22:02] <bapoumba> most of the reports were discussed in the staff report area
[22:02] <Suomalainen> forumsmattew. I apologise. Could you please repeat the question?
[22:02] <forumsmatthew> I see lots of polite and helpful responses. Then, in post 8 you rudely imply that no one helping you is adequate. A staff member posted to this effect in post 10
[22:02] <bapoumba> and other reports were regarding your own posts, do you realize that ?
[22:02] <forumsmatthew> and gives you more good advice
[22:02] <bodhi_zazen> I will add that I think you are over reacting Suomalainen on the xorg thread
[22:03] <forumsmatthew> instead of discussing the issue, you disappear as you did in the first thread
[22:03] <bodhi_zazen> I do not see any bad behavior by others on that thread, only attempts to help you and some good advice
[22:03] <bapoumba> no follow up, no indication the offered solutions worked or not
[22:03] <forumsmatthew> your reports were seen, but you were the one who was determined to be impatient and less than polite
[22:03] <forumsmatthew> what did you want us to do to help you?
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> that is the same as the previously unanswered question on the first thread
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> how do you perceive that we failed you?
[22:04] <Suomalainen> YOu lost me. Please back up and tell me where we are....
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> what should have been done that was not done?
[22:05] <forumsmatthew> In either case, what were you expecting to happen that did not happen?
[22:05] <forumsmatthew> what reasonable thing could/should staff have done to help you that was not done?
[22:06] <forumsmatthew> I'm rephrasing repeatedly for clarity to make sure you know what I am asking.
[22:06] <forumsmatthew> We are listening. We listened earlier. What help did you want or expect that was not forthcoming?
[22:06] <Suomalainen> In my original post. Iasked for help and got some good ideas. I reported those results and thanked the poster. But when my words are taken out of contexts or I'm told that I said something that wasn't said and then country is brought into the fold, well......
[22:07] <forumsmatthew> that was dealt with when the staff member posted in the thread in post 20
[22:07] <forumsmatthew> what MORE did you want him/us to do?
[22:07] <jdong> you've told us that several times, but that doesn't answer forumsmatthew's question.
[22:07] <jdong> what specifically did you expect the staff to have done, and what was done instead?
[22:08] <forumsmatthew> you are acting hurt. I'm sorry you feel hurt. But your anger is misdirected. We came to your aid.
[22:08] <forumsmatthew> unless there is something new to add, I'm not sure there is anything else we need to do/discuss here.
[22:09] <Suomalainen> How could I go on with that post when it went the direction it did. I left it because nobody would want to read it. I tried asking to have line items deleted but I never heard from anyone.
[22:09] <bapoumba> you were expecting we edit the posts, am I correct ?
[22:09] <forumsmatthew> the posts were dealt with. They didn't require deletion. The thread was still active and help was ready for you. You left
[22:09] <Suomalainen> and then my other posts were taken over by same persons and they state to world things not true.
[22:10] <forumsmatthew> no, that is not accurate. you may believe it, but I don't see what you are describing at all.
[22:10] <forumsmatthew> I see helpful people giving advice and you freaking out
[22:10] <jdong> I see a person stating that he was frustrated he attempted to provide detailed help and got a reply asking for an "expert" to respond.
[22:10] <Suomalainen> I ask specific question xorg.conf file and then told things that don't even have to do with my question.
[22:11] <Suomalainen> And if advice is offered I'm not even told what running such commnds means.
[22:11] <jdong> I didn't see you ask about that?
[22:12] <bapoumba> I went back to reading threads, and you had goods advices given to you
[22:13] <Suomalainen> I would not use advice coming from  a person that say's I mada a statement that never was said. I would not use advice that is coming from person thinking his language is better than mind. How do you trust?????
[22:13] <forumsmatthew> I reread the threads, people were giving on-topic, applicable advice to you
[22:14] <forumsmatthew> I'm going to say this as gently as a text-only medium will allow: I think you have trust issues, I think you are easily offended, and I think those are the cause of the problem.
[22:14] <forumsmatthew> Sorry, I don't see anything that the staff did wrong here.
[22:14] <Suomalainen> making thinkd up is not a way of doing business or using advice.... You need to be fearful under such circumstances.
[22:15] <forumsmatthew> I disagree with the premise, so the conclusion is one I cannot accept
[22:15] <Technoviking> Suomalainen: This is community support, people volenteer there time to help other users on the forums out of a love for Ubuntu.
[22:15] <bapoumba> I would say that you started what is a small issue
[22:15] <Suomalainen> These guys were making things up. It's in black and white. You don't see this?
[22:16] <bapoumba> all was good up to one post of yours
[22:16] <Technoviking> it is not perfect solution, but it work very well in most cases.
[22:16] <Suomalainen> Are you kidding me?
[22:16] <sdennie> Suomalainen: As a general rule, I think it's ok to distrust advice you don't understand.  If you don't understand it, ask for an explanation of it.  If one isn't given, you can try to figure out the advice or continue to distrust it.
[22:17] <Suomalainen> Things were being said that I never said... This is were the problems started to come from. Then the attack on country.... Not to warm spirit.....
[22:17] <Technoviking> Suomalainen: If you are not getting support that works for you in the Ubuntu Forums, or can try the irc support channel #ubuntu and launchpad answer
[22:17] <jdong> After reading through your post history and the responses you solicited, along with the reported post queues, I agree with matthew.
[22:17] <Technoviking> https://answers.launchpad.net/
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> good suggestion
[22:18] <Technoviking> Different channel resources work better for different people.
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> I vote we move end the meeting with a statement of resolution. All who feel the matter resolved give a +1
[22:18] <forumsmatthew> +1
[22:18] <Technoviking> Suomalainen: You may want to check out you local Ubuntu Loco team, maybe someone local could help you better
[22:19] <Technoviking> +1
[22:19] <Suomalainen> So Your telling me that I can't use Ubuntu forum because these guys will be allowed to invade my posts. Threaten me.. and nothing I can do about it?????
[22:19] <bapoumba> +1
[22:19] <bapoumba> noone threatened you Suomalainen
[22:19] <forumsmatthew> you aren't banned. alternatives were suggested that you may feel more comfortable using since you don't feel comfortable with the help in the forums
[22:19] <jdong> who is threatening you?
[22:19] <Suomalainen> oh really. Did you read the post the second thread?????
[22:20] <jdong> yes. I did.
[22:20] <bapoumba> yes
[22:20] <jdong> you openly ignored someone's advice and asked for an "expert" instead
[22:20] <jdong> frankly you were the one displaying a disrespectful attitude.
[22:20] <Technoviking> Suomalainen: You can use the forums, but you need understand that the forums are open to discussion
[22:20] <Suomalainen> That was different topic.
[22:21] <forumsmatthew> we are going in circles. back to the vote. We have three +1s
[22:21] <bapoumba> Suomalainen, I will quote one of the persons you are thinking were not correct with you: I don't get you - people try to help and you jump all over them.
[22:21] <jdong> You also aggressively chose to undermine the documented community processes for dealing with these conflicts
[22:21] <ubuntugeek> +1
[22:21] <jdong> and I am still fairly dissatisfied with that.
[22:21] <jdong> +1.
[22:21] <forumsmatthew> okay. thanks everyone for your time
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> it is appreciated
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> I'll clean up the wiki agenda page now
[22:22] <forumsmatthew> bye, all!
[22:22] <bapoumba> bye :)
[22:22] <ShadowChild> Bye.
[22:22] <ubuntugeek> See ya you all..
[22:41] <winrid> Hello
[22:42] <winrid> Is the meeting over?
[22:42] <ScottK> Yes
[22:42] <winrid> Damn
[22:42] <winrid> Did they discuss me?
[22:42] <ScottK> Dunno.  Check irclogs.ubuntu.com.
[22:43] <winrid> Sorry I was late but I was busy and didn't pay attention to the time...
[22:43] <Snova> Are you linuxisevolution?
[22:43] <winrid> Yes
[22:43] <Snova> No.
[22:43] <winrid> ?
[22:43] <Snova> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/04/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[22:43] <Snova> You weren't here, so...
[22:45] <bittin^`> Are there an Ubuntu Events / Meeting Mailinglist?
[22:45] <winrid> Snova: did they have a discussion about me or was I not even mentioned?
[22:46] <Snova> winrid: They asked if you were here; you weren't, they moved on. Should be in the logs.
[22:46] <bittin^`> 21:20	forumsmatthew	is linuxisevolution here?
[22:46] <bittin^`> 21:20	bodhi_zazen	kk
[22:46] <bittin^`> 21:21	forumsmatthew	alright, next item then
[22:47] <winrid> I see...
[22:47] <winrid> When is next meeting?
[22:47] <Snova> They aren't set.
[22:47] <winrid> ahh
[22:47] <Snova> When there is one, this page will be updated: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[22:47] <winrid> How often do they happen?
[22:47] <Snova> I suggest you subscribe to it.
[22:47] <Snova> No idea.
[22:48] <winrid> I can't subscribe I am banned from forums. That's why I am here.
[22:48] <Snova> If you subscribe to that page, you'll be notified when it is changed, so you'll get an email eventually for their next meeting.
[22:48] <Snova> wiki page, not forum thread.
[22:48] <bittin^`> then you must done something?
[22:48] <winrid> oh
[22:48] <winrid> My mistake
[22:48] <bittin^`> or does Ubuntu Forums ban ppl by no reason :o
[22:48] <Snova> Just need a wiki user... which I believe is tied into Launchpad login, not sure.
[22:49] <winrid> bitten^: They ban people for reasons, yes, but for odd reasons sometimes
[22:49] <bittin^`> ;o
[22:49] <Snova> bittin^`: Oh sure, they pick random user ID's out of a roulette wheel when they're bored. :)
[22:49] <bittin^`> i never been active on the international Ubuntu Forums
[22:49] <bittin^`> only the swedish ones
[22:49] <winrid> What happened was I posted an insulting image by accident, my mother told me to go to bed, and I couldn't fix it until morning. By then I was already banned.
[22:50] <winrid> Snova & Bitten^: No, only me :)
[22:50] <Snova> Something like that would probably be reversed, but I can't say. Just subscribe to the page, I guess.
[22:50] <winrid> Thanks
[22:50] <winrid> I was working on my novel and time just flies...
[22:51] <winrid> I have the page bookmarked
[22:52] <Snova> Yes, but then you have to check it. :P More reliable to subscribe to it; you just get a few emails now and then.
[22:52] <Snova> Also, if you forget to check it, even for a few days... I only got the meeting notice one or two days ago.
[22:52] <bittin^`> its always fun to been in Linux meetings :)
[22:53] <bittin^`> are there an Mailing List for all Ubuntu Events or should i add the Google Calender(?)
[22:55] <winrid> K i subscribe
[22:55] <winrid> Oh, I was already subscribed
[22:56] <winrid> Does everyone here use Ubuntu? I find that hard to believe for some reason..
[22:56] <Snova> Given the fact that there are 134 people in here, I doubt it. Also, this is an official meeting channel, so hush. :P
[22:57] <winrid> Oh, right..
[22:57] <bittin^`> i actully more use Kubuntu
[22:57] <bittin^`> nowdays
[22:57] <Snova> Same thing, different DE.
[22:57] <winrid> I think the admins are long gone though.. :(
[22:57] <bittin^`> Snova: true tough
[22:57] <Snova> Oh, they cleared out fast. :)
[22:57] <winrid> Snova: I know
[22:57] <bittin^`> tough i use many distros
[22:58] <bittin^`> on diffrent computers :p
[22:58] <winrid> Me too
[22:58] <winrid> Windows is on my calculator
[22:58] <winrid> lol well I call it my foot stool/ calculator
[22:58] <bittin^`> i use Kubuntu at my grand parents place
[22:58] <winrid> Must be Grand.
[22:58] <bittin^`> used alot off Ubuntu some years when i was new to Linux tough
[22:59] <winrid> A lot of people do.
[22:59] <bittin^`> for 1-2years tough its not my first distro
[22:59] <winrid> I actually think Pclinuxos Is better with the gui configurations and stuff...  This channel is meant for meetings, and many people log this channel
[23:01] <winrid> Sorry
[23:02] <bittin^`> yes #ubuntu-offtopic sounds like a good channel
[23:02] <winrid> Not many people are on here. I go, sorry.
[23:02] <winrid> Meet you there bittin
[23:02] <bittin^`> sorry
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> Thanks Snova and bittin^` ;)
[23:12] <bodhi_zazen> if you see winrid again , yes he can subscribe to the wiki, lol
[23:12] <Snova> Apparently he already was...


[01:45] <deekej> hey guys, does anyone here have experience with C++?
[01:46] <Jordan_U> deekej: 1: On IRC It's best to just ask your actual question 2: Why are you posting any messags to #ubuntu+1?
[01:47] <deekej> Jordan_U: **** wrong channel, sorry
[01:47] <deekej> :-/
[01:47] <Jordan_U> :)
[06:40] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:54] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks