[00:03] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[00:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:03. The chair is cprofitt.
[00:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:03] <cprofitt> hello all... All UBT members please say here
[00:03] <UndiFineD> here
[00:04] <MrChrisDruif> there
[00:04] <UndiFineD> everywhere
[00:04] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[00:04] <cprofitt> alright... well...
[00:05] <cprofitt> I think the Doodle poll was rather conclusive
[00:05] <UndiFineD> same here
[00:05] <MrChrisDruif> It kinda was.
[00:05] <cprofitt> does anyone object to adopting the name pair of guide and student to replace master and padawan?
[00:05] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe link to the doodle for reference?
[00:05] <MrChrisDruif> Student?
[00:05] <cprofitt> [LINK] http://doodle.com/3w8azia4bwnwv8fk
[00:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://doodle.com/3w8azia4bwnwv8fk
[00:06] <MrChrisDruif> cprofitt: There was only a vote for the new Master name
[00:06] <hajour> o/
[00:06] <UndiFineD> should I close it down tomorrow ?
[00:06] <JackyAlcine> o/
[00:06] <hajour> here
[00:06] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Adopt the title pair of Guide and Student to replace Master and Padwan
[00:06] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Adopt the title pair of Guide and Student to replace Master and Padwan.
[00:06] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:06] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:06] <cprofitt> +1
[00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:06] <UndiFineD> +1
[00:06] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:06] <MrChrisDruif> -1
[00:06] <MootBot> -1 received from MrChrisDruif. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:07] <MrChrisDruif> There was never a vote about the new naming for student
[00:07] <hajour> +1
[00:07] <MootBot> +1 received from hajour. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:07] <UndiFineD> I could draw up an other doodle if wanted
[00:07] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: correct -- there was no poll for it
[00:08] <cprofitt> that is why I wanted to vote here on the subject
[00:08] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:08] <MrChrisDruif> Hence I voted against the pair of Guide and Student.
[00:08] <hajour> not many around i think in meeting
[00:08] <MrChrisDruif> JackyAlcine: ^
[00:08] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:08] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:08] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
[00:09] <cprofitt> [AGREED] UBT to adopt Guide and Student in place of Master and Padawan
[00:09] <MootBot> AGREED received:  UBT to adopt Guide and Student in place of Master and Padawan
[00:09] <UndiFineD> hmmm, not really represenative for our team cprofitt
[00:09] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: were there any other options for student put forth?
[00:09] <UndiFineD> yes
[00:09] <MrChrisDruif> I agree with the Guide (as is seen on the Doodle. I object against the Student
[00:09] <MrChrisDruif> Apprentice?
[00:09] <cprofitt> if you want to make a poll we can do that
[00:09] <cprofitt> I was only aware of student... but if there were others we can have a poll
[00:09] <MrChrisDruif> And I've seen other pass the avenue
[00:10] <UndiFineD> I proposed Student
[00:10] <UndiFineD> During the meeting Apprentice was suggested
[00:10] <UndiFineD> In the past I have also used Mentee
[00:10] <hajour> i think a poll would be good to make cprofitt
[00:10] <cprofitt> well Mentee is for the Mentor / Mentee
[00:10] <cprofitt> so already in use
[00:10] <cprofitt> hajour: I agree
[00:10] <MrChrisDruif> +1
[00:10] <cprofitt> lets make a poll for the padawan replacement
[00:10] <MrChrisDruif> Agreed
[00:10] <UndiFineD> ok
[00:10] <cprofitt> [AGREED] to hold on the padawan replacement and put a poll up
[00:10] <MootBot> AGREED received:  to hold on the padawan replacement and put a poll up
[00:10] <hajour> welcome jledbetter
[00:10] <UndiFineD> will do so after the meeting then
[00:11] <cprofitt> I want to put a poll up and have it finish Sunday
[00:11] <cprofitt> no need to have it drag on for multiple weeks
[00:11] <UndiFineD> ok
[00:11] <hajour> yes also noting the uds is coming many are very busy to prepare for uds cprofitt
[00:11] <UndiFineD> do we need to start anything else for improving UBT: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2011-April/001916.html
[00:11] <cprofitt> hajour: the same reason I would like the title in place
[00:12] <cprofitt> so we can use it at UDS
[00:12] <hajour> a ok i understand
[00:12] <jledbetter> o/
[00:12] <cprofitt> it takes very little time to go to a poll and click
[00:12] <cprofitt> jledbetter: ?
[00:12] <jledbetter> Saying I'm here. Sorry.
[00:12] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-projects/+spec/community-o-ubuntu-beginners
[00:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-projects/+spec/community-o-ubuntu-beginners
[00:12] <cprofitt> np
[00:12] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: you have the floor
[00:13] <UndiFineD> well, we started on this blueprint together, do we need to add anything else onto it ?
[00:13] <UndiFineD> it talks of continued improvements
[00:14] <UndiFineD> and our lack of motu people
[00:15] <UndiFineD> I hope our little community is more widely known now, and we can attract the old guard
[00:15] <UndiFineD> and perhaps even help canonical people into the community
[00:17] <MrChrisDruif> That last part shouldn't be too difficult....if only they wanted to come into the community :P
[00:17] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, they do, and often I see them fail at the community boards
[00:18] <hajour> i was thinking on shift turns for helping in ubuntu-beginners no often there is no respond on questions very long time or all are there the same time
[00:18] <hajour> just a idea
[00:19] <MrChrisDruif> "Working in shifts"?
[00:19] <MrChrisDruif> We're no company
[00:19] <UndiFineD> we flock ?
[00:19] <hajour> just that there is at least a few
[00:20] <cprofitt> hajour: I think we do a good job of filling the IRC channel
[00:20] <cprofitt> I would be opposed to having scheduled shifts
[00:20] <MrChrisDruif> +1 on that
[00:20] <cprofitt> we have enough trouble figuring out GMT vs. UTC vs. EDT
[00:20] <UndiFineD> the irc channel is filled, but response time is the issue
[00:20] <hajour> UndiFineD,  explains what i meant
[00:20] <jledbetter> lol cprofitt
[00:20] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: we can not garauntee a response time
[00:21] <MrChrisDruif> Not always btw
[00:21] <cprofitt> even if we took shifts we can not garauntee that the people in the channel would know the answer
[00:21] <jledbetter> I was just typing that, cprofitt.
[00:21] <cprofitt> I also think placing a formality to the role of a volunteer takes away the volunteer part of it
[00:21] <UndiFineD> that is true as well
[00:22] <hajour> what i mean is in guide there is standing put in your question answer comes later but a part never get answer
[00:22] <cprofitt> hajour: true... and I expect that to happen
[00:22] <UndiFineD> to fix time issues: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/desktop/time.png
[00:23] <MrChrisDruif> Guide? I've never heard of that, other then being the new (approved?) name for master
[00:23] <hajour> when i came in channel it was write somewhere that it works that way MrChrisDruif  not remember exactly where anymore
[00:24] <hajour> a answer also can be to send you to a channel where can be answered
[00:25] <MrChrisDruif> I only see in the topic that you can directly start asking questions; if anybody knows the answer, they will most likely reply
[00:26] <hajour> often is told to people put in the question they read back and then you later most of time get a answer.
[00:26] <cprofitt> are we good on this topic? or should we take it to mailing list?
[00:27] <MrChrisDruif> You mean that when the active people on IRC don't know the answer, that they should put it on the forums?
[00:27] <hajour> i not know i just said what i had noticed
[00:27] <cprofitt> I think it is an excellent topic for the support FG to address more completely
[00:27] <MrChrisDruif> :D
[00:27] <hajour> that can but if you are new often you not know how the forum works
[00:27] <UndiFineD> cprofitt, maybe we should add an entry message saying response time may vary but often is within 10 minutes
[00:28] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: we could...
[00:28] <cprofitt> not sure how many would see that in the topic
[00:28] <UndiFineD> when people know an answer
[00:28] <cprofitt> but it is a good question for the FG to figure out
[00:28] <jledbetter> +1 to support talking amongst itself and going to the ML later
[00:29] <MrChrisDruif> And also, it's not guaranteed; no need to put something like that in the topic
[00:29] <UndiFineD> and that they can also ask their question in #ubuntu
[00:29] <hajour> UndiFineD,  types my idea now
[00:29] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: can you share the UDS Blueprint with the general mailing list too?
[00:29] <hajour> thanks UndiFineD
[00:29] <UndiFineD> sure
[00:29] <cprofitt> jledbetter: did you have any response from kdotj?
[00:30] <cprofitt> or Gamegoodfs2
[00:30] <cprofitt> I am going to remove the folks on our list that have been contacted
[00:30] <jledbetter> cprofitt, Everybody that I contacted wanted to have a master. If someone said no or didn't reply, I would have removed him/her
[00:30] <hajour> the thing is not all people have a own pc.many have to share it and kids often must do the pc offline in night
[00:30] <cprofitt> unless you had conversations with them
[00:31] <cprofitt> ok... so you contacted them, but did not take them on...
[00:31] <UndiFineD> I have room for 1 more
[00:31] <jledbetter> Yeah. That was before I was officially allowed.
[00:31] <hajour> so its often not possible to wait on a answer that i mean cprofitt
[00:32] <cprofitt> for the guide ???? you can take on more than one... potentially several since you are really just getting them setup with the basics
[00:32] <UndiFineD> I already have 2 now
[00:32] <jledbetter> Yeah. Documentation says we had to be approved.
[00:32] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, should all the Guides be in all the FG IRC's? Getting to know all the mentors?
[00:32] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:33] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: no... the guides need not do that
[00:33] <cprofitt> please take a look at that list and try to contact the people who have not been listed as contacted
[00:34] <cprofitt> I usually try to stay w/in my time zone, but for basic information email can work as well
[00:34] <UndiFineD> I started numbering them, so we maintain some order of new entries
[00:34] <UndiFineD> see who has been on the list longest
[00:34] <cprofitt> if you are willing to take a person on you can send them an email
[00:34] <cprofitt> and note that you sent a contact out
[00:34] <cprofitt> once you take them on remove them from this list
[00:35] <MrChrisDruif> How would a Guide be a good help if for instance he knows a lot about wiki stuff and nothing about bug triaging? Or development? How would he direct them in the right way? Just saying "Go to that channel and ask for a mentor?"
[00:35] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:35] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:35] <cprofitt> and add them to that list
[00:35] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: a guide just has to help a person throught he basics...
[00:35] <cprofitt> getting an LP account, the CoC, starting a wiki page
[00:36] <cprofitt> they do not have to be an expert
[00:36] <cprofitt> the Mentors are the experts in particular areas
[00:36] <UndiFineD> I think I should take over JasonO from pedro, who has been away for a long time now
[00:36] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: +1
[00:36] <jledbetter> Don't we have someone that's lead of the mentor/master/guide program?
[00:36] <hajour> UndiFineD,  already is guiding JasonO  the most btw
[00:37] <cprofitt> subscribing to the membership page will send you email alerts when people signup
[00:37] <cprofitt> and is a good way to ensure we try contacting these people quickly
[00:37] <cprofitt> for example
[00:38] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dlopez12
[00:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dlopez12
[00:38] <cprofitt> read his page -- in regards to UBT
[00:38] <cprofitt> he edited the membership page on 3-13,, set a goal of being a member by May 1st
[00:39] <cprofitt> and has not been contacted yet
[00:39] <cprofitt> we need to try to ensure that we get to people more quickly than that
[00:40] <MrChrisDruif> cprofitt: Setting a goal is all fine and dandy of course, but if he isn't even contacted, how would he know how long it takes to become a member?
[00:40] <jledbetter> Maybe we should batch people a little.
[00:40] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: I agree...
[00:40] <UndiFineD> and I have not even seen him around our channels
[00:40] <cprofitt> But us not contacting the person for over a month is not a good thing either
[00:41] <UndiFineD> so how serious is he
[00:41] <cprofitt> some people may not follow through, but I want to ensure we do
[00:41] <cprofitt> we can question them, but that is truly unfair given that we have not follow through either
[00:41] <cprofitt> that is why I would like to see - the contacted by / date
[00:41] <MrChrisDruif> We work best in IRC...
[00:41] <JasonO> hajour I'm here.
[00:42] <jledbetter> Some work best in email :)
[00:42] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha JasonO
[00:42] <cprofitt> if those people have not been removed from the list within 30 days of being contacted then we should remove them from the list
[00:42] <JasonO> Hi MrChrisDruif
[00:42] <hajour> ok great hello JasonO
[00:42] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: the UBT works in email, forums, ask ubuntu and IRC
[00:42] <cprofitt> so we need to at least try to contact folks via email
[00:42] <JasonO> Hi hajour
[00:42] <jledbetter> And if via email can work outside our time zone
[00:43] <cprofitt> jledbetter: can you take on those people that said they want a guide?
[00:43] <cprofitt> that you contacted?
[00:43] <jledbetter> cprofitt, Yes, but I fear, frankly, being stretched too thin.
[00:43] <cprofitt> jledbetter: take one what you can -- and pass the others to me
[00:43] <cprofitt> I will get them started
[00:44] <UndiFineD> duane has taken on some new ones too
[00:44] <jledbetter> cprofitt, Ok, thank you. I'll contact them tonight.
[00:44] <cprofitt> thanks jledbetter
[00:45] <cprofitt> we need to remove people from that list if we have taken them on
[00:45] <cprofitt> any other topics from the floor?
[00:46] <MrChrisDruif> Can the European people finally go to bed?
[00:46] <MrChrisDruif> :P
[00:46] <cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: yes
[00:46] <cprofitt> thanks for coming everyone
[00:46] <hajour>  hehe MrChrisDruif
[00:46] <UndiFineD> thanks people
[00:46] <cprofitt> I apologize for screwing up the GMT UTC stuff
[00:46] <MrChrisDruif> Your welcome, I'll see the doodle in the mail :P
[00:46] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[00:46] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:46.
[00:46] <UndiFineD> I will create the poll, update the wiki
[00:47] <hajour> np cprofitt
[00:48] <MrChrisDruif> The wiki? Let me :D
[00:50] <hajour> UndiFineD,  is in pm but says ok MrChrisDruif
[00:51] <MrChrisDruif> Working as we speak, also a clean up ;)
[00:52] <hajour> great MrChrisDruif
[12:07]  * cking --> lunch and run some errands, back in 1.5 hours or so
[16:02] <cjwatson> awooga
[16:02] <jhunt_> o/
[16:02] <barry> wheee!
[16:02]  * stgraber waves
[16:02] <czajkowski> way too happy for a meeting
[16:02] <csurbhi> o/
[16:03] <doko> hi
[16:03]  * slangasek waves
[16:03] <psurbhi> o/
[16:05] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is slangasek.
[16:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
[16:05] <slangasek> let's see, how do we do this
[16:07] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko csurbhi stgraber jhunt)
[16:07] <slangasek> doko csurbhi stgraber cjwatson barry jhunt
[16:07] <slangasek> let's try that :)
[16:07] <slangasek> doko: hey there
[16:07] <doko> opening oneiric, syncs & merges, chasing apt miscompilation on armel
[16:07] <doko> done
[16:08] <psurbhi> *) worked on a bug for getting btrfs subvolume support in os-prober (bug 764893)
[16:08] <psurbhi> *) worked on adding btrfs subvolume support in the rescue package.
[16:08] <psurbhi> *) working on resolving an upstream bug: ext4: cannot unfreeze a filesystem due to a deadlock
[16:09] <stgraber> done?
[16:09] <psurbhi> yes
[16:09] <stgraber> ok
[16:09] <stgraber> This week I've mostly been looking through specs for UDS, trying to get familiar with the Foundations ones, proposing a few and fighting with the schedule, the usual :)
[16:09] <stgraber> Also been looking a bit at merges/syncs for Oneiric and worked on the gdm/kdebase-workspace Natty SRU (bug 436936).
[16:09] <stgraber> (done)
[16:09] <cjwatson> Done:
[16:09] <cjwatson>  - Quite a bit of archive maintenance.  Opened Oneiric in record time, thanks doko. :-)
[16:09] <cjwatson>  - Loads of installer syncs/merges, plus openssl, memtest86+, rpm, ttf-cjk-compat, and ntfs-3g.
[16:09] <cjwatson>  - Oneiric planning with Steve.
[16:09] <cjwatson>  - Patch pilot this morning.
[16:09] <cjwatson>  - Working on and off on GRUB package reorganisation.
[16:09] <cjwatson> To do:
[16:10] <cjwatson>  - Complete Oneiric planning.
[16:10] <cjwatson>  - Finish GRUB repackaging.  My goal here is to provide coinstallable versions of all the GRUB platform packages, making it simpler to build GRUB-based images.
[16:10] <cjwatson> psurbhi: and I owe you an os-prober review
[16:10] <cjwatson> done
[16:10] <barry> dhpy2 transition; python3 transition; debug bug 616742 (avogadro -> dhpy2); patch pilot; gnome bug 649165 (review); bug 772026 (apport -> dhpy2/dh - ongoing); system & schroot upgrades. done.
[16:10] <jhunt_> Natty sprint and install testing, which found bug 771241. Tracked down
[16:10] <jhunt_> some nasty libnih bugs (bug 776532 (has fix plan), bug 777093 (has MP)
[16:10] <jhunt_> and bug 777097 (has MP)). Investigative work for OEM team. Documented
[16:10] <jhunt_> TODO items for Upstart session support (bug 776392).  Bit of work on new
[16:10] <jhunt_> Upstart testing tool and investigations into some new Upstart tooling.
[16:10] <jhunt_> UDS planning and discussions with Server Team.
[16:10] <jhunt_> EOT
[16:11] <barry> sorry that should have been debian bug 616742
[16:11] <doko> barry: what do you mean by "dhpy2 transition" and  "python3 transition" ?
[16:11] <slangasek> and that's why we call it the lightning round then :)
[16:12] <barry> doko: been working on the py3 spreadsheet, will be sending out a call for participation later today.  been also going through the pycentral bugs and working up patches
[16:13]  * slangasek throws in his own two cents
[16:14] <slangasek> been working on oneiric planning; also working on clearing a backlog of process-removals from Debian (only 2 years or so of backlog); maybe will get to start doing some merges at the end of the week (maybe)
[16:15] <slangasek> which leads us right to...
[16:15] <slangasek> [TOPIC] UDS
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS
[16:15] <slangasek> I assume everyone has their tickets booked already ;)
[16:16]  * cjwatson panics ... no, wait, it's OK
[16:16]  * barry even found his passport :)
[16:16] <cjwatson> (I did have to apologise to admin for being late though)
[16:17] <slangasek> if any lightbulbs have gone off suddenly after oneiric opened to make you realize there's something else we should be working on for this cycle and need to discuss... it's not too late to get it on the agenda
[16:17] <cjwatson> the deadline is Friday, right?
[16:17] <slangasek> yes
[16:18] <slangasek> in the meantime we're still getting everything turned into blueprints, and making the autoscheduler earn its keep
[16:18] <slangasek> so drop a proposal on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning, or ping me or cjwatson with details
[16:18] <doko> not sure if it's worth talking about buildd availability for test rebuilds, the soyuz people and hardware enabling people are not present
[16:19] <cjwatson> doko: it might be better to arrange separate discussions with them+IS for that
[16:19] <stgraber> I was actually just thinking of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-foundations-n-improved-support-declarations and if we should schedule it again for uds-o. Will add it to the wiki.
[16:19] <cjwatson> stgraber: does it need re-discussion, or just drafting + implementation?
[16:20] <stgraber> cjwatson: probably just drafting + implementation. Would have to see if we have notes for this one though (nothing in the blueprint itself)
[16:21] <cjwatson> it looks like it has the bulk of a spec, but nobody's done the thinking to distil it down to actionable items ... it feels vague to me
[16:21] <cjwatson> the blueprint links to a wiki page that has a chunk of it
[16:21] <barry> slangasek: there are two foundations-o-python-version blueprints, one for ubuntu (carried over from n) and one for python.  i'll consolidate those and we can get rid of one of them
[16:21] <cjwatson> but it's not a completed spec
[16:21] <cjwatson> (the Design section has multiple alternatives, no decision taken ...)
[16:21] <stgraber> yeah, I was kind of hoping to see work items in there and the spec being deferred, but it's not the case :(
[16:21] <slangasek> barry: ack, thanks
[16:22] <slangasek> stgraber, cjwatson: useful to re-discuss this then to drive it to conclusion?  or does someone need to go have a think about it first?
[16:23] <cjwatson> (I was mostly there for comic relief, persia and stgraber were the main drivers I think)
[16:24] <cjwatson> persia was the drafter - I'll check with him whether he just ran out of time, or whether he feels it needs more discussion
[16:24] <stgraber> sounds good
[16:25] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to check with persia whether more discussion is needed on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-foundations-n-improved-support-declarations at UDS
[16:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to check with persia whether more discussion is needed on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-foundations-n-improved-support-declarations at UDS
[16:25] <slangasek> actionated!
[16:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:25] <slangasek> good news, bad news?
[16:26] <cjwatson> action done
[16:27] <cjwatson> psurbhi: are you planning to re-discuss upstart-in-initramfs this UDS, or can implementation continue without that?
[16:27] <cjwatson> (I'm happy either way, but now is the time to check)
[16:32] <slangasek> no news is good news then ;)
[16:32] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:32.
[16:32] <barry> thanks!
[16:32] <slangasek> thanks, everyone - see you Sunday!
[16:32] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:32] <jhunt_> thanks
[16:32] <stgraber> see you all in Budapest!
[16:33] <barry> i'm already hungary!  <groan>
[16:33] <psurbhi> thanks!
[16:33] <cjwatson> psurbhi: hm, did you see my question above?
[16:33] <psurbhi> cjwatson, yes
[16:33] <psurbhi> i am planning to do a rediscussin
[16:33] <psurbhi> now much better equipped
[16:34] <psurbhi> had not thought of doing a session
[16:34] <psurbhi> but can do
[16:34] <psurbhi> sorry, for missing your question before saying thanks too soon :(
[16:34] <cjwatson> well, you're not required to, that's up to you - but a note on the OneiricPlanning page would be good
[16:34] <psurbhi> ok
[16:34] <cjwatson> especially if you reckon a session would be useful
[16:34] <psurbhi> I think a short session at least would help others see where we are right now
[16:35] <psurbhi> and also get inputs on how we go about it
[16:35] <psurbhi> yes! i do think it will be useful
[16:35] <psurbhi> :)
[16:35]  * psurbhi shall prepare for a short session


[02:20] <kdy> 여기서 대화 나눌 수 있는건가요?
[02:23] <Somethingss> I found a bug in mate-terminal, causing all terminals to forefully exit when reproduced.
[02:26] <Somethingss> Using i3wm, open two instances of it, position then vertically, run tmux on the bottom one and resize it using the mouse: Drag the titlebar to the top of the screen and let it go. Then all mate-terminals will forcefully close
[02:27] <ObrienDave> that would be interesting to try to reproduce in other terminals
[02:28] <Somethingss> I tried also gnome-terminal, the result was that one glitches out the rendering
[02:29] <ObrienDave> the mate issue would be good to report to the bugtracker
[02:30] <ObrienDave> you might want to do some research first for duplicates
[03:13] <aew999> is this working?
[03:14] <Artemis3> aew999, maybe.
[03:17] <aew999> hello then
[05:43] <bingiz> hello
[06:06] <aew999> Steam is not working i downloaded it and whenever i click to open it, it does nothing and doesnt open, anyone know how to fix this?
[06:06] <ObrienDave> purge and reinstall
[14:05] <ubuntu-mate> tb
[14:36] <acertain_> ok
[17:44] <inspiral> hello ppl!
[17:47] <inspiral> i'd like to use RPi mostly to log into my company computer via remote desktop. is there any application in the ubuntu/ubuntu MATE ecosystem which is capable to connect to a windows PC?
[18:06] <nikodean1> Hi, i'm just trying out Ubuntu Mate for the first time. :)
[18:07] <nikodean1> I normally use Ubuntu, but I miss the interface that MATE is using now.
[18:47] <korhan> hi
[22:23] <ecoats> HEllo room
[22:23] <ecoats> anyone in here?
[22:24] <ObrienDave> no ;p


[20:12] <ronoc_work> NERD-> https://twitter.com/anthonyrhook/status/667429573341093888
[20:19] <lostatwork> nothing to be ashamed about IRC is still the best form of real time communication
[20:28] <mikeputnam> really good / approachable read on getting the most out of `traceroute` https://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog45/presentations/Sunday/RAS_traceroute_N45.pdf
[20:37] <mikeputnam> hmm yes. i rather think of daily irc use as something to boast about, not be ashamed of.
[20:40] <mikeputnam> i love textmode everything. i feel like i'm part of the unix that started it all. sort of a living history lesson.
[20:42] <mikeputnam> (even though i'm using linux majority of the time)
[20:42] <mikeputnam> the BSD's are truer to the original unix tenets
[20:42] <mikeputnam> but it's all good
[20:53] <tsimonq2> ronoc_work: ?
[20:54] <ronoc_work> Its all just senseless teasing folks
[20:55] <tsimonq2> oh XD


[11:31]  * PaulW2U counts summaries - 25 done, 5 to do
[18:25] <pleia2> added a post about the passing of one of our community members, unfortunately this means I'm also quite a grieving mess this weekend
[18:26] <pleia2> I'll get this off to the editors later today, heading out to a lug meeting soon to meet up with some mutual friends
[19:58]  * jose hugs pleia2
[19:58] <jose> please let me know if I can give a hand during this week's issue
[20:23] <PaulW2U> summaries for issue #401 completed


[02:25] <rbasak> bigjools: thanks. I was going to fill out that bug - I just created it to track the work to start with.
[02:25] <bigjools> rbasak: :)
[02:25] <rbasak> bigjools: I've fixed the test issue with iscpy locally. Just sorting an upload out for that now.
[02:25] <bigjools> I had it on my list of things to do anyway, I didn;t know you were doing it
[02:25] <bigjools> oh!
[02:25] <bigjools> I was just doing *that* as well
[02:26] <rbasak> I had to patch a test - just sending that upstream now, then I'll upload
[02:26] <rbasak> roaksoax (via gaughen) asked me if I could take care of these two MIRs.
[02:27] <bigjools> rbasak: oh, tests all ran for me
[02:28] <rbasak> bigjools: yeah they run fine, but can't find their data if the working directory is the top level, which is the normal way for nosetests to run.
[02:29] <rbasak> bigjools: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7160450/ is what I did. Just used __file__ to make the test a bit more resilient finding its own data.
[02:29] <rbasak> Then nosetests runs fine.
[02:29] <bigjools> ok
[02:31] <bigjools> rbasak: looks almost exactly what I had done so far
[02:31] <bigjools> so I'll let you finish I guess :)
[02:32] <rbasak> bigjools: I'm just sending the patch upstream, then I'll upload. Sorry about duplicating work.
[02:32] <rbasak> I had assumed that roaksoax owned it and had handed it to me.
[02:32] <bigjools> rbasak: no worries, let's just blame roaksoax :)
[02:32] <rbasak> :)
[02:33] <jtv> Hi rbasak — what are you doing up at this hour?
[02:34] <rbasak> jtv: can't sleep. I have body clock issues :(
[02:34] <rbasak> I figured I'd work now and sleep later, rather than remaining sleep deprived today.
[02:38] <jtv> I find that unless I work until the point of collapse, I need a few hours to unwind after work.
[02:38] <jtv> Otherwise, no sleep again.
[02:45] <rbasak> I think I more or less understand my body clock and how to fix it. I have a really bright daylight lamp on a timer switch.
[02:45] <rbasak> Unfortunately life got in the way and my body clock gets disrupted very easily.
[02:46] <jtv> Same here, though I found ways of coping.  Probably not as bad as you.  Never got Redshift to work, but it sounded like a good idea.
[02:46] <rbasak> The lamp should fix it in a week or so though. Luckily it's only slightly annoying, especially with a job where I can mostly just get on with it without worrying about working hours.
[02:47] <rbasak> Meetings excepted, but I don't have so many so can usually manage to make those.
[02:47] <rbasak> (well, always, I think so far)
[02:47] <jtv> On the bright side, you get to talk to colleagues you wouldn't normally have much overlap with.  :)
[02:47] <rbasak> Indeed :)
[03:06] <rbasak> jamespage: we need to be subscribing ~ubuntu-server to MAAS MIRs, right If so, could you please subscribe us to iscpy and to python-seamicroclient?
[03:06] <rbasak> We have MIRs active on these now, and I've linked the MAAS blueprint to the bugs.
[03:06] <rbasak> roaksoax: ^^?
[03:07] <bigjools> rbasak: it must be 3am for you... wtf? :)
[03:07] <rbasak> bigjools: see backscroll :)
[03:08] <bigjools> rbasak: get a blood test for MTHFR mutation
[03:08] <bigjools> and then read this http://mthfr.net/mthfr-c677t-mutation-basic-protocol/2012/02/24/
[03:08] <rbasak> So python-seamicroclient appears to be running tests, but they are failing and the failing results are explicitly being ignroed with a ||true
[03:08] <bigjools> !!!
[03:09] <bigjools> kwality
[03:31] <bigjools> jtv: I am going to have lunch then I will review your branch
[03:33] <jtv> Thanks.
[03:36] <jtv> Sometimes I wonder what systems would look like if the world had an iron-clad engineering rule: you can't land code that grabs a persistent lock without a watchdog to protect against process death.
[03:37]  * jtv just rebooted a system to get rid of an apt lock.  Does it show?
[06:25] <jamespage> rbasak, ok
[07:34] <dimitern> hey maas guys, I'm wondering how can I install maas 1.5 from the package here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/maas/1.5+bzr1977-0ubuntu5
[07:35] <dimitern> I have a local install with maas (originally on precise using v1.2, but then upgraded to 1.4) with libvirt vm as cluster controller and 5 vm nodes, which is working well with juju
[07:36] <dimitern> so, can I install 1.5 on precise? i've added the cloud-tools pocket but can't see newer version than 1.4
[07:36] <dimitern> rvba, perhaps you can help? ^^
[07:37] <bigjools> dimitern: hi
[07:37] <rvba> AFAIK, 1.5 is not available on precise.  You need trusty.
[07:37] <rvba> dimitern: ^
[07:37] <bigjools> what he said :)
[07:37] <dimitern> bigjools, hey
[07:37] <bigjools> dimitern: you need trusty
[07:37] <dimitern> so I can try installing a new maas on trusty and I should get the latest
[07:38] <bigjools> not the very latest but it will have the latest VLAN code
[07:38] <dimitern> cheers bigjools and rvba
[07:38] <bigjools> dimitern: canonistack to the rescue!
[07:38] <dimitern> bigjools, why canonistack?
[07:39] <bigjools> dimitern: I'm sure you'll figure it out
[07:39] <dimitern> :) oh boy
[07:40] <dimitern> and this time i'm writing everything down each step of the way and will post a yet another "installing maas+juju" blog article :)
[08:19] <basicer> How would I go about changing how Curtin creates the filesystem ?
[08:33] <bigjools> basicer: you wait for smoser to come online and get him to help :)
[08:34] <jam> rvba: just checking if https://launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/+archive/dailybuilds/+packages is appropriate if we want to set up our own MaaS to do testing against VLAN
[08:34] <jam> or if that is going to be *too* new and sometimes broken
[08:35] <jam> I guess I see this one, too: https://launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/+archive/daily-qa-ok
[08:35] <rvba> jam: not sure the package in daily-qa-ok is recent enough.
[08:35] <bigjools> rbasak: it is
[08:35] <jam> rvba: 1.5+bzr1977+2115+246~ppa0~ubuntu14.04.1
[08:35] <bigjools> rvba:  it is
[08:35] <jam> says 2115 in there
[08:35] <rvba> Okay then.
[08:44] <basicer> Also, I dont know if this is fixed or not, but it took me like 4 hours to figure out.
[08:44] <basicer> If you public IPs for your nodes, the deb package cache will reject you, and nothing will work T.T
[08:46] <bigjools> you what?
[08:46] <basicer> you use public IPs for your nodes.
[09:27] <rvba> bigjools: you didn't vote on https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/maas/api-anchors/+merge/212997
[09:28] <bigjools> rvba: yeah sorry I've not really looked at it in detail
[09:28] <rvba> Okay, no worrie.
[09:28] <rvba> worries*
[09:28] <rvba> Maybe jtv will be willing to review it… ?
[09:28] <jtv> ?
[09:29] <rvba> The anchor branch.  See above.
[09:29] <jtv> Yes I would.
[09:29] <rvba> Ta.
[09:42] <jtv> rvba: reviewed
[09:42] <rvba> jtv: thanks
[09:59] <jtv> bigjools: I filed two new cards — for updating the import-pxe-files manpage, and for making it clear that those old shell import config files are obsolete.
[09:59] <jtv> We can handle the latter from the upgrade hook.  No packaging changes needed.
[09:59] <bigjools> jtv: right!  thanks
[10:00] <bigjools> of course!
[10:03] <jtv> I'm going to replace that awkward boot_walk() with its callback parameter with a generator.
[10:16] <jtv> rvba: are you working on labels in the new import script?
[10:16] <jtv> Because I'd like to throw boot_walk out the window.  It's clearer as a generator.
[10:16] <jtv> No more nested callbacks!
[10:17] <rvba> jtv: I'll resume my work on that this afternoon.  Basically testing Oleg's branch.
[10:17] <jtv> This means I'll have to read his email, doesn't it?
[10:18] <rvba> jtv: just have a look at his branch to see if it clashes with want you intend to do.  It's tiny.
[10:18] <jtv> Ah good.
[10:19] <jtv> Yup, there will be conflicts.  But nothing serious.
[10:33] <rvba> jtv: the daily package failed to build: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/170842514/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.maas_1.5%2Bbzr2153%2B2184%2B254~ppa0~ubuntu14.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[10:33] <jtv> Blast.
[10:33] <rvba> Looks related to your recent changes.
[10:33] <jtv> It was "uploading"...
[10:34] <jtv> Actually, it says "successful build."
[10:34] <jtv> Weird.
[10:34] <allenap> rvba: Have you seen the maas_longpoll problem before?
[10:35] <rvba> allenap: Are you referring to the discussion in #juju-dev?
[10:35] <allenap> rvba: Yeah.
[10:35] <rvba> No, I don't think I've seen this before.
[10:37] <jtv> Ahhh, setup.py still mentions the ephemerals script!
[10:37] <jtv> New branch...
[10:42] <rvba> jtv: didn't 'make package' catch that?
[10:42] <jtv> I have no idea why, but we got a "Build successful" — followed by this error.
[10:42] <rvba> I wonder if running 'make package' shouldn't be part of the landing process as well.
[10:43] <jtv> Yes, now that we have it, we ought to use it.
[10:43] <jtv> Although there are practical problems.
[10:43] <jtv> Sometimes a branch change is paired up with a packaging change, and they need to land in lockstep.
[10:44] <allenap> In that it writes to it’s parent directory? (Whoever though that was a good idea when developing deb tools was on meth.)
[10:44] <rvba> You can always land things manually in this case.
[10:46] <allenap> rvba: Do you understand what’s happening in that paste from vladk?
[10:46] <jtv> Small & easy branch for review!  Cheap karma!  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/maas/remove-ephemerals-script-from-setup/+merge/213017
[10:47] <rvba> allenap: No really, could "invoke-rc.d: policy-rc.d denied execution of restart." be the cause of this mess?
[10:48] <rvba> jtv: approved
[10:48] <jtv> Thanks.
[12:36] <melmoth> hola ! I have a customet that tells me "when i add-unit nova-compute, a box is installed, but no nova-compute charm is never installed"
[12:37] <melmoth> i was expecting to see some error in /var/log/cloud-init-outpout.log but there is no such file
[12:37] <melmoth> there is a /var/log/cloud-init.log though https://pastebin.canonical.com/107252/
[12:37] <melmoth> but i dont see any obvious error to my eyes.. where should i investigate ?
[12:38] <smoser> basicer, its not really trivial to change the way curtin changes filesystem.
[12:39] <smoser> what did you want to do ?
[14:05] <roaksoax> rbasak: cool! thanks for taking care of that
[14:52] <dimitern> gmb, https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1297814 that's the bug
[14:53] <gmb> dimitern: Cool, thanks.
[16:23] <perrito666> rvba: hi, have a moment for a question regarding gomaasapi.testservice?
[16:26] <rvba> perrito666: go ahead
[16:27] <perrito666> rvba: I am trying to make the testserver have /networks
[16:27] <perrito666> I registered the function to handle /api/<version>/networks/
[16:27] <perrito666> yet I get bad request whey I run the test I wrote
[16:27] <perrito666> before I start debugging my own code :)
[16:27] <perrito666> is there any step I am missing to register a new api endpoint?
[16:27] <rvba> perrito666: do you have a diff I could look at?
[16:28] <perrito666> cetainly
[16:29] <perrito666> rvba: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7163586/
[16:39] <basicer> smoser: Well my machines have four disks;  I would like to either put them in raid; or set up a btrfs filesystem that uses all 4.
[16:40] <rvba> perrito666: what's the url of the request that generates a 400 error?
[16:44] <perrito666> rvba: I am trying to igure out how to get that :) since I am using maasObj.CallGet("networks", params)
[16:44] <perrito666> will get back t you when I do
[16:45] <rvba> perrito666: I think the problem is that, if you have params (and I assume you do), "/api/%s/networks/" isn't going to catch the request.
[16:45] <perrito666> rvba: I thought they where not considered in the url matching
[16:45]  * perrito666 is djang biased
[16:46] <perrito666> rvba: tx
[16:46] <rvba> perrito666: hum, you might be right, looks like we're comparing that to the 'path' part of the URL
[16:47] <mgz> perrito666: you mean you're written in python too?
[16:48] <perrito666> mgz: yes, I am poorly templated tho
[16:53] <rvba> perrito666: is networksHandler() being called at all?
[16:57] <perrito666> rvba: apparently not
[16:58] <perrito666> that i wh I was wondering if I was missing a step ther
[17:00] <rvba> perrito666: I don't see anything obviously wrong.
[17:00] <perrito666> rvba: Ill keep looking into it, perhaps I can get the fake server to output all requests to stdout
[17:01] <rvba> Yeah, that would be a start.
[17:30] <perrito666> rvba: duh, call get is calling http://<IP_ADDRESS>:41401/api/1.0/nodes/test1/?node=test1&op=networks
[20:02] <Valduare> how many physical servers do I need to setup an ubuntu cloud, maas, juju, openstack etc
[20:03] <roadmr> Valduare: simplistically, I think 10: 1 for maas, 1 for the juju bootstrap node, and 8 for the services comprising openstack (I count 8 of them)
[20:04] <Valduare> 10 physical servers?
[20:05] <roadmr> Valduare: right. I think you can put several services in the same node to cut down on number of servers needed
[20:06] <Valduare> Right now I have one little mini itx board running 14 vm’s all setup manually lol
[20:06] <Valduare> cant afford 10 physical servers
[20:06] <roadmr> Valduare: (that's why I said "simplistically" - if you have enough hardware, just slap maas on one node, install juju on that one, and juju deploy all the openstack services, you don't need to configure anything else)
[20:07] <roadmr> Valduare: haha well I think you can have maas managing virtual machines, then you'd only need 1 server :D
[20:07] <Valduare> I have all of my vm’s stored on a freenas box serving iscsi atm
[20:08] <Valduare> and an esxi host on a gigabyte gae-350n mobo with 16 gigs of ram
[20:23] <Valduare> http://insights.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/interested-in-maas-and-juju-heres-how-to-try-it-in-a-vm/ interesting


[08:06] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:21] <tssx> what is login and password of ubuntu next
[08:24] <lordievader> tssx: From [1]: (the username is "ubuntu-desktop-next" - without the quotes - , and the password is blank which means you must simply hit the enter key) [1] http://www.webupd8.org/2014/06/ubuntu-desktop-next-unity8-1410-utopic.html
[08:25] <tssx> thanks it worked but ubuntu just nanged, guess it is still ultra buggy. thanks anyway
[08:25] <tssx> hanged*
[12:33] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[15:16] <george__> hi
[15:16] <george__> i just did sudo apt-get update and i had some errors
[15:16] <george__> pastebin.com/s1j8MBg6  (ubuntu 15.04 alpha1 xubuntu)
[15:16] <george__> do you have any idea what is wrong here?
[15:16] <george__> it is a todays fresh install
[15:18] <george__> i came from #xubuntu because they sent here to get support
[15:19] <george__> does anyone saw my post? please answer


[09:10] <amitprakash> Hi, I've enabled cloud-init-local, cloud-init, cloud-config and cloud-final services via systemd, however, on boot I don't see any of the services executing
[09:10] <amitprakash> furthermore systemctl status cloud-* shows the Active status as inactive (dead)
[09:11] <amitprakash> Finally, there are no logs in /var/logs .. any ideas why cloud-init isn't starting off?
[10:06] <hkominos> hello all. Can anybody help with a smallo cloud-init problem that i have?
[16:21] <prometheanfire> any chance https://code.launchpad.net/~prometheanfire/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/307969 can get reviewed today?
[16:45] <smoser> prometheanfire, is the description repetative ?
[18:12] <prometheanfire> smoser: the actual commit message?
[18:13] <prometheanfire> smoser: I'd say it's just fully explained
[18:19] <smoser> ok. i thought the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs might have had some copy and paste and not cleanpu
[18:19] <smoser> "cloud-inti-local needs to be run ...."
[18:33] <prometheanfire> you've not heard of cloud-inti-local?
[18:34] <prometheanfire> I don't see that anywhere
[19:16] <smoser> prometheanfire, sorry, i typod
[19:16] <smoser> the 2 and 3 paragraphs start with "cloud-init-local"
[19:19] <prometheanfire> is that wrong?


[00:55] <xnox> infinity: ogra_ thanks. I came home and plugged it into the duracell battery pack and it managed to boot and install while i was making tea =)
[00:58] <xnox> I wonder if we actually want an adb bridge running on ubuntu and allow to execute those commands (some of)
[05:46] <SailorMoon> You guys aware of the Horrible english on the Nexus 7 install instruction page?
[05:47] <SailorMoon> "You will be connect the device to your WiFi network "
[05:58] <sfeole> oye, theres a lot of new information in there since I was last maintaining it.
[06:00] <SailorMoon> Which really there isnt any point in installing, Correct?
[06:00] <SailorMoon> Doesnt Ubuntu for Tablets launch Thursday?
[06:00] <SailorMoon> making These desktop-style builds obsolete?
[06:08] <sfeole> Meh, Completely up to you if you want to install or not.
[06:09] <sfeole> I do believe that the Ubuntu for Tablets launch is soon! Not sure about the exact ETA.
[06:09] <SailorMoon> It's Thursday
[06:09] <sfeole> regardless, I fixed that first paragraph.
[06:09] <SailorMoon> According to 4 different news sources, Ubuntu Phone and ubuntu tablet launch Thursday
[06:10] <SailorMoon> Can you share a bit of information about it with me? assuming you know about it? lol
[06:10] <RDash-BNC> is there any bugs for Nexus 7 wifi saying device not ready?
[06:11] <SailorMoon> i just installed Ubuntu for Nexus 7, No wifi problems here
[06:11] <sfeole> RDash-BNC: during install?
[06:11] <RDash-BNC> after installed
[06:11] <SailorMoon> only problem so far is screen rotation and OTG Device support seems to have disappeared
[06:12] <RDash-BNC> dmesg says CFG8011-ERROR) wl_cfg80211_hang : In : chip crash eventing
[06:12] <RDash-BNC> and dhd_preinit_ioctls: can't get MAC address , error=-5
[06:12] <sfeole> RDash-BNC: dahh, i'm not really sure. I've been out of rotation for at least 3 months with the N7 doing other things. Your best bet is to check the existing bugs @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7 .. If you don't see anything, file one
[06:13] <SailorMoon> Also, not really a bug, more of a missing feature, the Ubuntu Software Center seems to have no search bar
[06:13] <RDash-BNC> does build-essential override anything important for wifi?
[06:13] <sfeole> i just happened to be "strolling by" #ubuntu-arm and saw Sailormoons initial blurb about the wiki
[06:14] <SailorMoon> I have to say, you guys are very quick with development
[06:14] <SailorMoon> wasnt just two months ago the Nexus 7 builds were garbage
[06:14] <SailorMoon> Now i could actually see myself using this
[06:14] <RDash-BNC> true
[06:15] <RDash-BNC> other than the random framebuffer problems when rebooting
[06:15] <SailorMoon> Ubuntu for Tablets launching Thursday
[06:15] <RDash-BNC> it is?
[06:15] <SailorMoon> Supposidly, yes
[06:15] <SailorMoon> http://www.itpro.co.uk/tablets/19236/ubuntu-tablet-os-will-make-its-debut-nexus-7-21-february
[06:16] <RDash-BNC> heh
[06:16] <RDash-BNC> I wonder if they hammered out the very major bugs
[06:16] <SailorMoon> I wonder as well
[06:16] <SailorMoon> screen rotation has me in fear of todays build
[06:17] <RDash-BNC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068994 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1070283 are very annoying
[06:17] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1068994 in ubuntu-nexus7 "button1 gets stuck after a while" [Critical,Confirmed]
[06:17] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1070283 in ubuntu-nexus7 "after reboot, framebuffer of previous boot appears on screen" [High,Confirmed]
[06:17] <RDash-BNC> I know they are still patching it but still annoying
[06:17] <SailorMoon> well, it wont be a stable build lol
[06:17] <sfeole> is the button1 problem still around?
[06:17]  * sfeole looks at the bug
[06:18] <SailorMoon> "button1"?
[06:18] <RDash-BNC> left mouse button
[06:18] <RDash-BNC> or a single finger tap
[06:18] <sfeole> SailorMoon: the first bug listed above
[06:18] <SailorMoon> ohhh
[06:18] <SailorMoon> darn lol
[06:18] <SailorMoon> that will make it unusable
[06:18] <RDash-BNC> and is there a way to install a compiler w/o bricking the wifi drivers?
[06:18] <sfeole> yeap
[06:19] <sfeole> RDash-BNC: i thought there was a convo about that RDash-BNC a few months / weeks ago here
[06:19] <sfeole> let me check scrollback
[06:19] <RDash-BNC> going to reflash since it's all bricked
[06:20] <RDash-BNC> maybe dropbear or build-essential did it
[06:20] <SailorMoon> Will Ubuntu Mobile make use of /system? or is my old android install just going to sleep there lol
[06:22] <SailorMoon> No way to mount ubuntu over USB? =/
[06:23] <RDash-BNC> and I just screwed up my initrd
[06:23] <RDash-BNC> I think that explains why my wifi broke
[06:30] <SailorMoon> My ubuntu just did the button1 thing =/
[06:30] <RDash-BNC> just tap slowly
[06:45] <Anonymous905> Hey, can someone help be get started on Installing Ubuntu for my Nexus 4?
[06:46] <RDash-BNC> Anonymous905: did you mean Nexus 7?
[06:46] <Anonymous905> Well actually I have a Nexus 10, but I'm curious how I can go about installing Ubuntu on platforms other than PC
[06:47] <RDash-BNC> Right now, I think Nexus 7 is the only tablet running a kinda working Ubuntu
[06:50] <RDash-BNC> what does my display manager log have other than my hostname?
[06:53] <Anonymous905> In that case, how do I get a Nexus 7 to run Ubuntu?
[06:55] <RDash-BNC> The wiki has the instructions for it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
[06:55] <RDash-BNC> Just remeber it's just the desktop and it's quite buggy
[07:09] <ashes> hello
[07:09] <ashes> have any of you got ubuntu for android working as a desktop?
[07:10] <ashes> it looks like i need an mhl adapter with the cradle, and a bluetooth keyboard. is that right?
[07:15] <RDash-BNC> ashes: you can use your finger for all the input
[07:17] <ashes> doesn't ubuntu run from a chroot?
[07:17] <ashes> uh
[07:18] <ashes> i'm not talking about running ubuntu in the android display. i'm talking about having it displayed to an hdmi monitor. i would prefer a keyboard for that
[07:30] <dholbach> good morning
[09:44] <ogra_> xnox, what would adb gauin us over the serial console, usbnet and an optional sshd  that we already ship ?
[09:45]  * ogra_ realy isnt fond of including any android stuff
[09:45] <xnox> true.
[09:45] <xnox> i'll just rip apart adbd to gain reboot bootloader.
[09:45] <ogra_> especialy if it just duplicates standard linux tools we have already
[09:46] <ogra_> oh, ok
[09:46] <ynezz> why not, it's so trendy :)
[09:46] <ogra_> well, we can surely mimic the userspace bit of reboot bootloader ... but will also need the kernel support
[09:46] <angs> I have ubuntu 12.10 on my host machine. Is it possible to install arm-none-eabi- tool chain by apt-get install ... ?
[09:46] <ogra_> what would arm-none-eabi be ? that sounds ancient
[09:48] <angs> I have a arm926ej-s cpu, I guess arm-linux-gnueabi- does not support it
[09:48] <ogra_> that should support v5
[09:49] <angs> do I need to download arm-linux-gnueabi- then compile it for arch=armv5te ?
[09:49] <angs> or do I need to have arm-none-eabi-
[09:49] <xnox> ogra_: well the linux patches were supposedly upstreamed. https://lwn.net/Articles/504721/
[09:50] <xnox> unless that's intel only and not android.
[09:50] <ogra_> well, then we would be able to just ship a hacked reboot binary
[09:51] <ogra_> angs, it should default to that, shouldne need arch=
[09:51] <ogra_> *shouldnt
[10:26] <xnox> hehe, i guess linus had hard time remembering children's birthdays hence using them as magic numbers for reboot syscall made sure he can look them up on any machine ;-)
[10:27] <ogra_> heh
[10:43] <xnox> so the reboot syscall in ubuntu-nexus7 kernel does copy across the restart command... i'm stopping to dig further into arch specific implementations. but it's no different from the android kernel.
[10:45] <hrw> prpplague: hi, early bird
[11:00] <ogra_> xnox, well, it is the android kernel, just a different config
[11:01] <ogra_> which reminds me ...
[11:02]  * ogra_ upgrades his n7 to yesterdays kernel
[11:12] <xnox> ogra_: right but stock android doesn't have much of an init system hence their reboot utility remounts the rootfs ro before doing reboot into firmware.
[11:13] <ogra_> hmm, we could do that in a "startr on stopping filesystem" job or so
[11:13] <xnox> ogra_: and our reboot is naturally is handled by upstart which has it's own shutdown utility. I can see how I can force `reboot -f bootloader` but i'm not sure how to correctly hook into the whole sysvinit mechanics.
[11:14] <xnox> otherwise the next boot will not be clean.
[11:14] <ogra_> we could ship our own reboot-bootloader binary
[11:14] <xnox> ogra_: no, one cannot use upstart job to accomplish that, since upstart is killed by sendsigs and then later the filesystem is unmounted and finally we reboot with sysvinit I believe.
[11:14] <ogra_> that gets called instead of upstarts reboot in the case where you call it with the bootloader arg
[11:15] <xnox> ogra_: i'll do / try a quick dirty force one and then will work with jodh on the proper one which does it correctly.
[11:15] <ogra_> k
[11:15] <xnox> we will needed for UEFI fastboot anyway, since we will need an option to "reboot into firmware" and we have designs from mpt for the reboot dialog as well on the desktop.
[11:16] <ogra_> ugh, we want to expose that to the user ?
[11:20] <xnox> ogra_: for UEFI fastboot we must. As UEFI fastboot means there is no physical way to interrupt the boot process.
[11:21] <xnox> (no usb, no keyboard, no networking, straight from poweron to boot the default configured OS as fast as it can)
[11:21] <ogra_> well, i would consider that an admin task, not an enduser task ... and keep it as cmdline option
[11:23] <xnox> and to get back to e.g. grub or like recovery-mode one needs to be able to get there somehow.
[11:23] <ogra_> hmm
[11:23] <xnox> well we will need a cmdline option to begin with =) to be able to actually do it ;-)
[11:28] <ogra_> yeah
[12:13] <quin> ~gibber 6
[12:13] <quin> ~gibberish 6
[12:14] <quin> oh sorry, please excuse me, wrong channel
[15:31] <xnox> ogra_: I totally made upstart's: reboot -f bootloader
[15:31] <xnox> boot back into fastboot mode ;-)
[15:32] <ogra_> lol
[15:32] <ogra_> how evil :)
[15:33] <TheMuso> Now all you need to do is extend the system indicator to offer that option on the nexus 7. :p
[15:33] <ogra_> hahaha
[15:37] <SailorMoon> Hey, can i ask question about Ubuntu Mobile? Something is said in an official video
[15:38] <SailorMoon> This image pretty much sums up my question http://i.imgur.com/AaRFzN7.png
[15:38] <SailorMoon> He mentions running Windows apps, showing a tablet.
[15:38] <SailorMoon> Is this an x86 example?
[15:38] <Tassadar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client
[15:39] <Tassadar> it is not running on the tablet
[15:39] <davmor2> SailorMoon: if you listen to the video it is via thin client
[15:39] <SailorMoon> Well i didnt know what a thin client was
[15:39] <SailorMoon> I think we use those at work to process Orders
[15:39] <SailorMoon> lol
[15:39] <SailorMoon> Thanks for the info
[15:39] <davmor2> SailorMoon: it runs on a windows machine elsewhere and you just access it via the thin client
[15:40] <SailorMoon> Lol gotcha, useless feature
[15:40] <Tassadar> it may have been unfortunate to show that in the video, I've seen many people just assuming it runs windows apps :/
[15:40] <SailorMoon> i didnt think it did
[15:40] <SailorMoon> was wondering how that was done lol
[15:41] <SailorMoon> We get flashable builds tomorrow, right?
[15:43] <SailorMoon> May i ask the stupidest question ever?
[15:44] <SailorMoon> Java Runtime Environment?
[15:44] <SailorMoon> Also, The builds of Ubuntu 13.04 for the Nexus 7 no longer support OTG Keyboards, will this mobile version?
[15:46] <Tassadar> openjdk should be available as usual, and I don't think Ubunut doesn't support OTG on nexus 7 Oo
[15:47] <SailorMoon> The old 12 builds supported Mouse and Keyboard over OTG
[15:47] <SailorMoon> But the new Dailies don't
[15:48] <Tassadar> I'm gonna try that
[15:48] <SailorMoon> thanks~
[15:49] <SailorMoon> id also like to recommend You guys create a channel for Ubuntu Mobile
[15:49] <SailorMoon> Because this feels more like a Dev channel than a social/support channel
[15:49] <SailorMoon> Unless i'm wrong
[15:49] <Tassadar> it works okay
[15:49] <SailorMoon> Last nights build didnt
[15:50] <SailorMoon> i installed it last night and used my OTG cable and it didnt work
[15:50] <SailorMoon> Unless my spare keyboard kicked the bucket (it IS cracked in half, but still worked as of a few days ago), ill test it on my desktop
[15:50] <SailorMoon> yeah it works fine
[15:51] <SailorMoon> didnt work on yesterdays 13.04 daily for the Nexus 7
[15:52] <Tassadar> kernel was updated, maybe they changed something, gimme a while to update
[15:52] <SailorMoon> Thanks again. my OTG cable and keyboard are working fine on Android
[15:52] <SailorMoon> So it isnt my hardware
[15:57] <SailorMoon> I hope this doesnt delay the launch
[15:57] <SailorMoon> i guess it wont :P
[15:58] <SailorMoon> I'm excited to replace android with something useful, is all
[15:59] <ogra_> SailorMoon, that demos the rdp client if you use the tablet in thin client mode
[15:59] <ogra_> ah, davmor2 already answered
[15:59]  * ogra_ should read the full becklog before answering :)
[16:00] <SailorMoon> lol
[16:00] <SailorMoon> Thanks anyway, ogra_
[16:00] <SailorMoon> So, are the ARM guys ready to get popular?
[16:00] <davmor2> ogra_: pleasure :)
[16:00] <SailorMoon> lol
[16:01] <SailorMoon> how well does everything work on Ubuntu Mobile in comparison to the Dailies we're getting for the Nexus 7?
[16:01] <SailorMoon> Screen rotation issues, "sleep" issues, and button1 issues plague it
[16:03] <ogra_> SailorMoon, i am already popular :P
[16:03] <ogra_> ask my GF
[16:04] <SailorMoon> what was Ubuntu ARM doing before this?
[16:04] <davmor2> ogra_: I asked her the air went blue, what have you done to that poor woman ;)
[16:05] <ogra_> haha
[16:06] <ogra_> SailorMoon, building the archive, making images for developer boards (and occasionally for an enduser devcie like the ac100 or now the nexus7)
[16:06] <ogra_> the arm port is around since 2009
[16:06] <Tassadar> SailorMoon: OTG works okay
[16:07] <SailorMoon> Why didnt it work for me last night then Tassadar =/
[16:07] <Tassadar> you have to connect keyboard to OTG reduction and then the OTG cable to tablet
[16:07] <SailorMoon> i did that
[16:07] <Tassadar> well, it works for me
[16:07] <SailorMoon> Ill take your word for it, then :P
[16:08] <Tassadar> maybe not in the installation dialog but even then, it should work as expected
[16:08] <SailorMoon> it didnt owrk then and it didnt work when i was trying to type Terminal into the app search thingy on Unity
[16:08] <SailorMoon> But to be fair, durring my attempt to search for apps in unity, i couldnt get the virtual keyboard to pop up either
[16:09] <SailorMoon> and got several system errors
[16:09] <SailorMoon> :P
[16:09] <SailorMoon> Will the Ubuntu for Tablets be just a sexier titanic?
[16:11] <Tassadar> will the aliens arrive tomorrow?
[16:11] <Tassadar> we'll see
[16:12] <davmor2> Tassadar: we are here now but shhhh don't tell everyone ;)
[16:13] <Tassadar> i _knew_ it!
[16:17] <SailorMoon> Okay now for the stupidest question
[16:17] <SailorMoon> Nexus 7 wont run Minecraft right?
[16:17] <SailorMoon> For 3D Acceleration reasons, not to mention the slow ARM processor?
[16:18] <SailorMoon> also on Ubuntu Mobile, what happens if install LXDE, or KDE, Etc? (Hey, someone has to ask the dumb questions)
[16:19] <ogra_> SailorMoon, get an old toshiba ac100 netbook ... we provide lubuntu images for it :)
[16:19] <ogra_> everything works, KDE, lxde ... xfce ...
[16:19] <SailorMoon> Thats totally diferent
[16:19] <SailorMoon> I know it would work on the Dailies for Nexus 7
[16:19] <ogra_> right
[16:19] <SailorMoon> i mean the actual Mobile ubuntu, with the side swipe, etc
[16:20] <ogra_> well, no idea, i havent seen the code yet (and if i had i wouldnt talk about it before it is publically released)
[16:20] <SailorMoon> What kind of Memory usage am i going to see just from the system with nothing installed?
[16:20] <SailorMoon> ahh
[16:20] <SailorMoon> it releases tomorrow though, i've been told by magical unicorn sources
[16:20] <ogra_> should be similar or lower than the current nexus7 image
[16:21] <ogra_> where we are right below 400M for an idling desktop
[16:21] <SailorMoon> So more then Android
[16:21] <SailorMoon> To be expected, i guess
[16:21] <SailorMoon> The difference between a real OS ;P
[16:21] <ogra_> nope, to be cut down :)
[16:22] <ogra_> if we are done with the cut down work (which is still going on) i would put my bets on 256M for the idling desktop
[16:22] <ogra_> and note that i'm talking about the actual desktop here
[16:22] <ogra_> the tablet studff might then even eat less
[16:23] <ogra_> (once we have it fully integrated)
[16:24] <ogra_> the current work we do in ubuntu arm brings benefits for all desktops no matter what arch is below ... raring x86 desktop should already be a *lot* smaller and faster than 12.10 was
[16:24] <SailorMoon> huh
[16:24] <SailorMoon> Android wit honly a few things running is using 418MB of ram on my Nexus 7
[16:25] <SailorMoon> Difference being Android kills off Processes when memory gets tight, ubuntu can't do that, right?
[16:25] <SailorMoon> ubuntu should use /system as swap
[16:25] <ogra_> ubuntu can do that as well indeed
[16:26] <ogra_> it just doesnt
[16:26] <SailorMoon> if ubuntu used /system as swap, it wouldnt need to
[16:26] <ogra_> we use compressed swap in ram
[16:26] <ogra_> to not wear out the MMC
[16:26] <SailorMoon> but what are you guys doing with /system ?
[16:26] <ogra_> nothing atm (in the nexus7 image, cant talk about the tablet one yet)
[16:27] <SailorMoon> My recommendation: Put a recovery image in there
[16:27] <ogra_> (not because i'm not allowed, i was simply to busy to take a look yet)
[16:27] <SailorMoon> in case people break their ubuntu, they could recover it with no struggle
[16:28] <SailorMoon> the /system partition is like 700MB or something on the Nexus 7
[16:29] <SailorMoon> would also be good for OTA updates to store the update to make writing to /userdata safer
[16:29] <SailorMoon> Anyway, ill shutup now lol
[16:29] <ogra_> we dont touch /system in the current ubuntu image
[16:29] <SailorMoon> i know
[16:29] <ogra_> ubuntu lives in userdata
[16:29] <SailorMoon> you should take advantage of everything your offered
[16:29] <ogra_> if i would the image would wipe the device and use one big partition
[16:29] <SailorMoon> lol
[16:30] <SailorMoon> that would like, ruin Android
[16:30] <ogra_> who cares
[16:30] <SailorMoon> no going back lol
[16:30] <Tassadar> I care)
[16:30] <ogra_> sure going back is always possible
[16:30] <SailorMoon> i honestly wouldnt mind it if there was a no-fail way of undoing it
[16:31] <SailorMoon> There's going to be people who install it and say "well, this isnt for me"
[16:31] <ogra_> and ?
[16:31] <ogra_> they can jusr reßflash android then
[16:31] <SailorMoon> i know :P
[16:31] <SailorMoon> but if you destroyed the partitions, that might be a bit harder
[16:31] <SailorMoon> lol
[16:31] <ogra_> its not like we trash the device
[16:32] <ogra_> nah, you can always flash from fastboot and restore it
[16:32] <ogra_> the tablet image will likely completely take over everything
[16:32] <SailorMoon> I just realized what should be done with /system
[16:32] <Tassadar> repartitioning is not an option on nexus 7 anyway because of the bootloader, isn't it?
[16:32] <Tassadar> *is it?
[16:32] <SailorMoon> Bootloader can be unlocked just by typing "unlock"
[16:33] <ogra_> Tassadar, depends, if nvflash works now, you can even replace the bootloader with it
[16:33] <Tassadar> no, it doesn't
[16:33] <ogra_> it didnt work back when we started with the n7, else i would have picked that route
[16:33] <ogra_> you can on every other tegra
[16:33] <Tassadar> n7's bootloader is encrypted
[16:33] <Tassadar> and device-specific encrypted
[16:33] <ogra_> right, you need the key
[16:33] <SailorMoon> you guys need an android-style .zip package that installs like a rom, containing a Mini installer, with just wifi drivers, etc. To download the /userdata
[16:34] <ogra_> SailorMoon, i think thats what the tablet image does
[16:34] <SailorMoon> You'll get more users that way instead of the complex way its done with the Dailies
[16:34] <ogra_> using zips and replacing all of android with the ubuntu image
[16:34] <ogra_> SailorMoon, huh ?
[16:34] <SailorMoon> its currently done with fastboot, wich 90% of android users have no idea how to use
[16:34] <ogra_> whats complex there ? its a one click UI installer
[16:35] <SailorMoon> For ubuntu users*
[16:35] <ogra_> oh, well, i wouldnt ask my mom to use fastboot if there is a one click installer that runs fully automatic
[16:35] <ogra_> (which we offer since day one)
[16:35] <SailorMoon> Unless your mom was on Windows
[16:35] <SailorMoon> or  Mac
[16:35] <SailorMoon> or A non-ubuntu distro
[16:36] <ogra_> well, *my* mom wouldnt be on either :)
[16:36] <ogra_> but i see what you mean, yeah
[16:36] <SailorMoon> Point is
[16:36] <ogra_> well, the tablet image works this way
[16:36] <SailorMoon> androidusers are experienced with .zip packages that can be installed via Recovery
[16:36] <ogra_> the nexus7 image never was for users
[16:36] <ogra_> yeah, a horrid way
[16:36] <SailorMoon> Horrid but familiar.
[16:37] <ogra_> still nothing a normal unexperienced user would do
[16:37] <SailorMoon> a normal unexperienced user doesnt even know what Linux is
[16:37] <SailorMoon> So
[16:37] <SailorMoon> :P
[16:37] <ogra_> right
[16:37] <Tassadar> we need to define "normal" here)
[16:38] <SailorMoon> ive been flashing Roms for a long time, but this was the first time i Really used Fastboot other than to unlock
[16:38] <ogra_> but he would use the ubuntu tablet installer for windows ... with a one click UI :)
[16:38] <ogra_> Tassadar, your mom
[16:38] <SailorMoon> its a scary experience
[16:38] <ogra_> or worse (since wimen are usually better at tech stuff) your dad
[16:38] <SailorMoon> scary experience for first-timers*
[16:38] <Tassadar> dude, I'm afraid to let that man to use computer
[16:38] <ogra_> SailorMoon, and using a zip wasnt when you did it the first time ?
[16:39] <SailorMoon> I guess your right
[16:39] <ogra_> Tassadar, then he is the perfect target user :)
[16:39] <SailorMoon> But like i said
[16:39] <SailorMoon> Every tech android user has flashed zip roms
[16:39]  * ogra_ usues his mom as tester if he writes apps
[16:39] <SailorMoon> very few have done it with fastboot
[16:39] <ogra_> SailorMoon, it wont be "flashing" at all
[16:39] <ogra_> it will be "use the ubuntu installer for your OS"
[16:39] <Tassadar> but if you take that as target user group, then they will wait for real ubuntu tablets - like preinstalled new models from OEMs, and they won't give a damn about hows it called
[16:40] <ogra_> yeah, indeed
[16:40] <SailorMoon> So there will be a Windows installer, then?
[16:40] <ogra_> i'm talking more about the early adopters
[16:40] <ogra_> SailorMoon, i woudl hope so
[16:40] <ogra_> else it wouldnt be ubuntu ;)
[16:40] <Tassadar> the issue with windows are usually the drivers :/
[16:41] <SailorMoon> yeah you'll need fastboot drivers
[16:41] <ogra_> well, i would assume people attaching their adnroid device to win already have a driver for it
[16:41] <SailorMoon> Windows doesnt install those itself
[16:41] <ogra_> which they used to put i.e. music on the device
[16:41] <SailorMoon> like i said earlier, not many have used fastboot, and thus not many will have the Fastboot driver
[16:41] <Tassadar> adb/fastboot drivers are often not the same thing as "normal" drivers
[16:41] <SailorMoon> that driver is different, Ogra
[16:42] <ogra_> anyway, no need to speculate ... we'll see where we are by 14.04
[16:42] <SailorMoon> infact on windows 8, i couldnt even install my fastboot driver
[16:42] <ogra_> which is the actual target date
[16:42] <ogra_> before "normal" users wont really use it anyway
[16:42] <SailorMoon> lol
[16:42] <SailorMoon> We totally will. it's too exciting to pass up ;P
[16:43] <ogra_> you arent a normal user
[16:43] <SailorMoon> Then why do i feel so Nooby.
[16:43] <ogra_> you are in an IRC developer channel dude !
[16:43] <SailorMoon> lol
[16:43] <ogra_> normal users dont do that
[16:44] <SailorMoon> last night i did something stupid
[16:44] <SailorMoon> did a Clockwork backup of my Android and its data but instead of moving it to my PC i moved it to internal memory
[16:44] <SailorMoon> then i installed Ubuntu
[16:45] <SailorMoon> and was like "Q~Q"
[16:46] <Tassadar> I managed to do something like that in a day or two after I got n7, wasn't really used to not having sdcard)
[16:46] <hrw> oops
[16:46] <ogra_> pfft
[16:46] <hrw> that's why titaniumbackup + backup on dropbox roxx
[16:46] <SailorMoon> Is there anything like Wine, but Android?
[16:46] <ogra_> do ayou know how our binfmt handler for qemu-user-statinc works ?
[16:47] <ogra_> it enables you to exec arm binaries on an x86 pc
[16:47] <SailorMoon> I play some Android Games id rather not give up
[16:47] <SailorMoon> I had QEmu on my Nexus 7
[16:47] <hrw> I wonder will ubuntuone ever get popular in android apps
[16:47] <SailorMoon> was running x86 linux on my Nexus 7
[16:47] <SailorMoon> very poorly <3
[16:47] <ogra_> i once wrongly unpacked a tarball with arm root filesystem while being in a custome phoe conf
[16:48] <SailorMoon> Ubuntu one is fail (NOT THE FACE D;)
[16:48] <ogra_> sadly i missed that i unpacked it to /
[16:48] <ogra_> and i didnt notice it at all, since my PC happily execudes arm binaries
[16:48] <ogra_> until the next reboot ...
[16:49] <ogra_> *customer phone conf
[16:49] <SailorMoon> i dont use Ubuntu on my desktop/laptop because of driver issues, hardware bugs, etc. But Ubuntu mobile, since its device specific, wont have any of these issues, right? Thats why im excited, anyway
[16:49] <SailorMoon> I would totally use Ubuntu if the learning curve was smaller
[16:49] <ogra_> lol
[16:49] <ogra_> thats a brave assumption
[16:49] <SailorMoon> i mean, i know it will be buggy but
[16:50] <SailorMoon> it will be focused
[16:50] <ogra_> does win8 have less bugs on phones than on the desktop ?
[16:50] <SailorMoon> lol i wouldnt know
[16:50] <SailorMoon> i dont even cal lthat shameful peice of trash Windows 8
[16:51] <SailorMoon> Windows RT
[16:51] <SailorMoon> Runs only binaries signed by Microsoft
[16:51] <ogra_> well, be sure ubuntu on phones and tablets will have bugs as well
[16:51] <SailorMoon> i know
[16:51] <ogra_> as all software has them
[16:51] <SailorMoon> i didnt mean it like that
[16:51] <ogra_> and there could even be owrse ones than on the desktop
[16:52] <ogra_> *worse
[16:52] <SailorMoon> i mean any bugs ive had on my desktop due to my hardware wont occure the same way on the tablet because the same hardware was developed on
[16:52] <ogra_> usually bugs on such devices are way more fatal
[16:52] <ogra_> simply because you only have one single way of input
[16:53] <ogra_> i just spenbt a weekend trying to fix the installer ... having to do that from an initramfs prompt on y touch device is no fun
[16:54] <SailorMoon> Ubuntu Mobile will be less Likely to throw a Terminal in your face, is what i mean
[16:54] <Tassadar> that X bug with touch input must be real pain in the ass too :/
[16:54] <ogra_> sure, it will just get stuck instead
[16:54] <SailorMoon> yeah
[16:54] <SailorMoon> it happened to me twice last night, Tassadar
[16:54] <SailorMoon> made me switch back to Android
[16:54] <ogra_> Tassadar, it is, but not my area of expertise, so i'm wainitng for a fix to appear
[16:55] <ogra_> sadly not even upstream seems to have a clue
[16:55] <SailorMoon> The ubuntu desktop appears whe nyou connect a mouse and keyboard, the video revealed that, right?
[16:55] <SailorMoon> Will that occure when you connect just a mouse? just a keyboard?
[16:55] <SailorMoon> or requires both?
[16:56] <SailorMoon> or will there be some magical switch somewhere?
[16:56] <ogra_> i doubt thats in the demo yet
[16:57] <ogra_> but the theory is that at some point when its implemented, the device will detect a monitor and switch modes
[16:57] <ogra_> or a tablet dock for the phone ... or whatever
[16:59] <ogra_> all this is stuff that will be implemented on the road to 14.04, dont expect to much from the demo
[17:16] <SailorMoon> lol
[17:22] <SailorMoon> Okay not to be "That guy"
[17:22] <SailorMoon> But
[17:22] <SailorMoon> You guys are calling it a Q1 2014 release date
[17:22] <SailorMoon> isnt 14.04 Q2?
[17:22] <ogra_> do we ?
[17:23] <SailorMoon> Yes?
[17:23] <ogra_> where ?
[17:23] <SailorMoon> idk, 50 different news sites
[17:23] <SailorMoon> It's Q2 then, right?
[17:24] <SailorMoon> lol
[17:24] <ogra_> its april 2014
[17:24] <SailorMoon> "Shuttleworth expects new Ubuntu-powered smartphones to start arriving in Q1 2014"
[17:24] <ogra_> whatever news sites say :)
[17:25] <SailorMoon> can i ask you something completely off topic?
[17:26] <SailorMoon_> Stupid xbox
[17:26] <SailorMoon_> Whenever i turn it on my wireless disconnects lol
[17:26] <SailorMoon_> Anyway, what is "PowerPC"?
[17:27] <Tassadar> processor architecture
[17:27] <Tassadar> like x86 or ARM
[17:27] <SailorMoon_> I know, but i would like to know about its performance and such compared to the others
[17:27] <SailorMoon_> and why isnt it used very often
[17:27] <SailorMoon_> I believe the Xbox 360 uses it, and some Macs use it, but thats all ive ever seen of it
[17:51] <calculus> I need help getting my display resolution working properly... I have a pandaboard es, with ubuntu 12.04 and the ti-omap ppa installed... my monitor can do 1600x1200, but it defaults to 1024x768 and 1280x1024 is the only larger option in xrandr
[17:52] <calculus> monitor is plugged in the hdmi port
[17:52] <calculus> the strange thing is /var/log/Xorg.0.log mentions modelines for 1600x1200
[17:53] <calculus> maybe related, the screen flickers when I move the mouse
[17:54] <TheMuso> calculus: Do you have a specific reason to use the Ti OMAP PPA? There is a display driver in Ubuntu 12.04 proper, pvr-omap4 I think is the package, and it works with Stock Ubuntu OMAP 4 kernels.
[17:55] <calculus> TheMuso: I was hoping for opengl and video acceleration/libdce things
[17:56] <ogra_> TheMuso, calculus, while we ship the latest driver in the distro, TI always produced the codecs packages post release so they are only in the PPA ... what we have in the distro is only for GLES but not for accelerated video playback
[17:56] <TheMuso> Oh right.
[17:57] <ogra_> calculus, if its a PPA probalem, try #pandaboard (though i'm not sure who is still working on it after TI killed OMAP)
[17:57] <ogra_> most of the devs that worked on panda stuff were laid off
[17:58] <calculus> ogra_: I think it is dss related because /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/overlay0/output_size is 1280,1024 and I can't seem to write new values to it (even with sudo)
[17:58] <ogra_> well, upstream for that stuff is in #pandaboard
[17:59] <ogra_> we only package and integrate it
[18:01] <TheMuso> yay for being burnt by proprietary software once the vendor stops supporting the hardware.
[18:01] <ogra_> yeah, its not clear if we can go on building the desktop images once new Xorg hits the archive
[18:04] <davmor2> ogra_: quick question, does the current n7 image port over to the touch interface or are they completely separate projects?
[18:05] <ogra_> davmor2, currently they are completely separate ... over time they will merge
[18:06] <calculus> what about stopping the flickering, would that be related to hwcursor?
[18:06] <davmor2> good now I know not to be disappointed when the caterpillar desktop doesn't turn into a bufferfly version :)
[18:08] <ogra_> davmor2, if you want the butterfly, use the tablet image :)
[18:09] <davmor2> ogra_: I don't mind either way, although I have to say the tablet version does look gorgeous :)
[18:09] <ogra_> yeah, if it just had some apps now :)
[18:09] <ogra_> hurry devs, write some !
[21:18] <hrw> davmor2: and for "entry level" requires 2GB of ram and cortex-a15?
[21:39] <Tassadar> ogra_: you had some problems regarding ext4 filesystem, right? It got corrupted because of ...fsck it was?
[21:39] <Tassadar> on n7
[21:46] <Tassadar> meh, he's probably gone for the day


[16:33] <PaulW2U> Several links added to prep doc re robots and drones etc. Will need moving/combining in due course.
[19:23] <pleia2> yeah, just saw my Ubuntu google alert for today a moment ago and thought the same thing
[19:23] <pleia2> the internet really got excited about this news
[19:26] <PaulW2U> there's enough there already to publish a mid-week edition :)
[19:26] <pleia2> haha, right
[19:26] <wxl> my bad, two blogs in two days ;)
[23:28] <ahoneybun> pleia2, did you read that one about Ubuntu on Mars?
[23:44] <pleia2> ahoneybun: nope
[23:45] <ahoneybun> pleia2, http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-Could-Be-the-First-OS-on-MARS-470491.shtml
[23:45] <pleia2> ahoneybun: cool, feel free to add it to the blogosphere section of the doc :)
[23:45] <ahoneybun> I did add it just might have to move it
[23:46] <pleia2> thanks!
[23:46] <ahoneybun> moved


[00:53] <ibmr50e> yoo tsimonq2 wxl can I stop lock screen from stopping the music when computer is locked?
[01:16] <Tazz> Tryin to install on a old HP pentium 4 with 2 gigs of ram it gets to a point and stops ? any sugestions
[12:04] <ibmr50e> yo guys
[12:04] <ibmr50e> what's Ubuntu Budgie?
[12:07] <ibmr50e> https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/lubuntu/lubuntu-1710-install-live-dvd-32bit.html
[12:07] <ibmr50e> you guys get monies from this?
[15:05] <swim> i just installed 17.10 in virtualbox, lubuntu does not recognize my password tho ... i did set password again by initing sh via grub, but when i reboot again it still doesnt recognize it
[15:05] <swim> any suggestions on how to fix it?
[15:34] <JohnDoe7> do you click on lang symbols at the coner?
[15:36] <JohnDoe7> by default input lang english.  this symbol to set system language after login
[15:36] <JohnDoe7> they not change input language
[15:37] <swim> my password is typed the same way on an english keyboard as it is on my native keyboard
[15:37] <swim> i deleted the image and went for a reinstall
[15:46] <swim> seems to be working after reinstalling
[16:18] <TaZeR> how come lubuntu hasnt switched to the much superior LXQT desktop?
[16:33] <ibmr50e> they're working hard on it
[16:33] <ibmr50e> 18.04 will include lxqt
[16:53] <tsimonq2> Right.
[16:53] <tsimonq2> There's still some kinks we have to work out.
[18:06] <TaZeR> oh i see, excellent then
[18:07] <ibmr50e> ye very exciting
[18:07] <ibmr50e> i wonder if it will be a bit faster than lxde
[18:07] <TaZeR> deffinitly, i had switched a while ago on an arch system from lxde to lxqt on a very slow system and the difference was phenomenal
[18:08] <TaZeR> qt5 is extremely fast
[18:15] <ibmr50e> so you used 0.12 version?
[18:16] <TaZeR> i think so, it would be an up to date release
[18:17] <ibmr50e> was it stable enough for day by day use?
[18:17] <tsimonq2> TaZeR: Try going to Panel -> About LXQt and tell us ;)
[18:17] <tsimonq2> I've personally been using LXQt for the past year if not more with little to no problems
[18:17] <TaZeR> im not on that computer right now
[18:17] <TaZeR> but its arch so it will be the newest one
[18:17] <ibmr50e> tsimonq2, so you're just polishing things at this point?
[18:18] <ibmr50e> im too newbie to handle arch
[18:18] <tsimonq2> ibmr50e: Yep
[18:18] <TaZeR> i think you can get it on debian also
[18:19] <ibmr50e> well there are experimental lubuntu images with lxqt already so imma try that
[18:19] <TaZeR> oh right
[18:55] <LiftLeft> my volume control won't show
[18:56] <LiftLeft> I had my laptop on battery and it died
[18:56] <LiftLeft> I get harddrive error at boot
[18:56] <LiftLeft> and I rebooted twice
[19:09] <LiftLeft> nvm
[19:10] <LiftLeft> I fixed it
[20:05] <yoot> hello I have msi m6700 laptop amd athlonx2 and 2 gb ram. do you recommend lubuntu?
[20:05] <yoot> or ubuntu?
[20:16] <tsimonq2> yoot: Lubuntu ;)
[20:17] <martinmch> Indeed Lubuntu.
[20:19] <yoot> why?
[20:22] <tsimonq2> yoot: Lubuntu is designed for older hardware like that.
[20:22] <tsimonq2> GNOME would not run well.
[20:24] <yoot> Oh I understand. I bought this laptop for 30 dollars. It has Windows 7 :) Working like a turtle. I have to get rid of this.
[20:25] <tsimonq2> Right :)
[20:26] <Unit193> (Technically, it might actually help it run faster if you were to re-install Windows.  It has this weird thing where after a few years it gets slow and just needs a re-install.)
[20:26] <Unit193> But yeah, any midweight desktop should work on that.
[20:26] <tsimonq2> That too.
[20:27] <Unit193> Mid weight = LXDE/LXQt, Xfce, MATE, Budgie, etc.  I think Budgie at least?
[20:28] <tsimonq2> Meh, I'd argue "no" for Budgie.
[20:28] <tsimonq2> Ikey doesn't care about low resources. He has a nice machine. :P
[20:28] <tsimonq2> And I'd also argue that MATE is borderline but kinda fits.
[20:28] <Unit193> Mp. ot
[20:28] <Unit193> It's a midweight system.
[20:28] <tsimonq2> Oh.
[20:28] <tsimonq2> I misread. :)
[20:31] <yoot> this is launched in 2007 msi m6700 laptop
[20:40] <martinmch> yoot: How dependent are you of a graphical user interface?
[20:43] <yoot> I used ubuntu. I know the basic terminal commands but can't write script.
[20:45] <yoot> need a pc to code, watch and read
[20:45] <yoot> it must be fast I have only 2 gb ram
[20:46] <yoot> so lubuntu...
[20:46] <yoot> or any alternatives?
[20:46] <zleap> there are a good few guides to writing shell scripts
[20:47] <ibmr50e> you nerds suggest him using no gui?
[20:47] <ibmr50e> guys cmon
[20:48] <zleap> well you can use nano for an editor even in aterminal,  the idea of using a script is to automate tasks
[20:49] <zleap> so you could write a script to update the system
[20:49] <zleap> for example
[20:49] <zleap> is this helpful http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO.html
[20:49] <yoot> No. I know this...
[20:50] <yoot> sudo su
[20:50] <yoot> apt-get update
[20:50] <zleap> but you can put sudo apt-get update
[20:50] <yoot> ok. so am I installing lubuntu?
[20:51] <Unit193> I'd rather `sudo bleh...` or `sudo -i`
[20:51] <zleap> ok
[20:51] <zleap> my point is you can have a 1 line script called update adn it saves typing
[20:51] <zleap> i know you can do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[20:51] <yoot> oh I understand I did that before
[20:52] <zleap> ok
[20:52] <yoot> one last question what is the difference between ubuntu and lubuntu
[20:52] <zleap> ooops sorry
[20:52] <ibmr50e> graphical interface only
[20:52] <yoot> only gnome?
[20:52] <ibmr50e> yes
[20:52] <ibmr50e> gnome vs. lxde
[20:52] <zleap> lubuntu uses xfce
[20:52] <ibmr50e> zleap, u drunk
[20:52] <yoot> oh thats simple
[20:52] <zleap> yeah sorry lxde
[20:52] <ibmr50e> ye
[20:53] <ibmr50e> also
[20:53] <ibmr50e> default apps are different
[20:53] <ibmr50e> but its not an issue
[20:53] <ibmr50e> cause software center is the same and repositories too
[20:53] <zleap> it is on much older hardware
[20:53] <yoot> for instance?
[20:53] <zleap> as the bigger apps need more resources
[20:53] <zleap> but if you have a newer pc then both should run fine
[20:53] <yoot> libreoffice?
[20:53] <ibmr50e> it doesnt matter yoot cause you can install your ubuntu software no problem
[20:54] <zleap> yeah
[20:54] <ibmr50e> you can install everything yourself everything you had on ubuntu
[20:54] <ibmr50e> no worries
[20:54] <ibmr50e> apt-get libreoffice and u be fine bro
[20:54] <yoot> ok guys thank you so much it was very helpful I love irc
[20:54] <zleap> np
[20:54] <zleap> you're welcome
[20:54] <ibmr50e> i have 1.5 gb ram now lubuntu
[20:55] <tsimonq2> s/apt-get/apt/ ;)
[22:20] <ibmr50e> so the current trend for some devs is moving from GTK to Qt?
[23:53] <ibmr50e> tsimonq2, so these images have lxqt 0.12 included? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu-next/daily-live/pending/


[00:19] <Coded1> hello all
[00:20] <Coded1> I've installed 15.10 beta 2 and all works well, when I try to install "ubuntu-desktop-next"  I get a problem with "bluetooth-touch" and was wondering if anyone else had similar problems
[00:20] <Coded1> this is the pastebin of the install if anyone wants to check it out
[00:20] <Coded1> http://pastebin.com/g5DeGMu9
[07:28] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:05] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[12:08] <fhf> g'day!
[12:08] <tsimonq2> o/
[15:38] <Ian_Corne> can anyone try and use eclipse Mars on +1?
[15:38] <Ian_Corne> I'm getting GLib-GIO:ERROR:/build/glib2.0-pRoDo9/glib2.0-2.46.0/./gio/gmenuexporter.c:256:g_menu_exporter_menu_items_changed: assertion failed: (position + removed <= g_sequence_get_length (menu->item_links))
[16:32] <arsson> Hello! Where is all application launchers from the dash and how to get unity-tweak-tool to "work" open at first? Missing spread windows and another icons etc..


[11:41] <mup> Issue operator#189 closed: Track configuration changes <feature> <Created by chris-sanders> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/189>
[11:50] <mup> Issue operator#234 closed: Debugger "at" reserved words <Created by facundobatista> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/234>
[11:52] <mup> Issue operator#256 closed: Upgrading charm does not recreate the hook symlinks <Created by xavpaice> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/256>
[11:59] <mup> Issue operator#307 closed: Race condition: RuntimeError: unable to define an event with event_kind that overlaps with an existing type <Created by exceptorr> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/307>
[12:10] <mup> Issue operator#348 closed: Support collect-metrics normally once Juju runs it as a normal hook <Created by jameinel> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/348>
[12:11] <mup> Issue operator#372 closed: JUJU_VERSION not set during metrics hooks <Created by jameinel> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/372>
[12:20] <mup> Issue operator#395 closed: juju-info not supported <feature> <needs spec> <Created by stub42> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/395>
[12:24] <mup> Issue operator#437 closed: Custom Application Level Events and Triggers <feature> <Created by balbirthomas> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/437>
[12:26] <mup> Issue operator#449 closed: Expose "public-address" (its not the same as ingress-address) <Created by erik78se> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/449>
[12:37] <mup> Issue operator#450 closed: is_doomed() <feature> <needs spec> <Created by stub42> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/450>
[12:39] <mup> Issue operator#457 closed: Test harness relations cannot be initialized with data <feature> <harness> <Created by stub42> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/457>


[09:14] <rmg51> Morning
[10:47] <JonathanD> Hi.
[10:50] <jedijf> lazypower: waht's time LOL - np - whenever
[11:59] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys?, hamsters and everything else
[13:32] <ChinnoDog> morning
[15:58] <MutantTu1key> waltman: like i was saying, i am still trying to finish this project, but basicalyl it keeps getting delayed because of hardware issues
[15:58] <MutantTu1key> the cluster we are using 'URCF' is still new so the sysadmin is struggling still to get it stable and working correctly, as i just discovered my job i submitted friday has failed to complete because the head node went down
[15:58] <MutantTu1key> stuff like that.
[15:59] <MutantTu1key> then gail's raid went ka-poop
[16:36] <waltman> MutantTu1key: At some point you've got to move on and let it be someone else's problem
[16:42] <MutantTu1key> yeah that's true
[16:42] <MutantTu1key> you're definitely right
[16:43] <MutantTu1key> once the actual research project i am doing is done, i am out
[16:43] <MutantTu1key> the raid thing i gave up no
[16:43] <MutantTu1key> on
[16:43] <MutantTu1key> but the other thing is, cricket has about a years worth of work that wasn't properly backed up, and so she's kind of screwed if we can't get anything back
[17:34] <waltman> ack!
[17:35] <waltman> ok, you can recover cricket's work before you leave that lab :)
[18:09] <MutantTu1key> that i am trying to do