[00:09] <Aquina> fbc, use a pipe.
[00:10] <zoredache> fbc: something like this ls > filename.txt
[00:11] <Aquina> Or simply see http://www.linux.com/articles/45679
[00:14] <fuskern> anyone got a min ?
[00:15] <Aquina> sure
[00:15] <charlie-tca> !anyone
[00:15] <fuskern> ah
[00:15] <Aquina> :-)
[00:16] <fuskern> well, i've installed xubuntu onto an ibook, and i'm supposed to edit yaboot.conf and add append="video=ofonly" but i don't have permissions
[00:16] <fuskern> another thing
[00:17] <fuskern> after i rebooted the machine with linux video=ofonly i dosn't load the top menubar, so can't search for the file
[00:18] <fuskern> oh, and this is my first time ever linux experience
[00:18] <Aquina> well I'm not a mac-geek but why not trying to edit the file with something like "sudo nano <foofile>"?
[00:18] <zoredache> you need to use sudo/gksu to start an editor that can edit files  try gksu mousepad
[00:18] <Aquina> You have always a shell available to rearch everything.
[00:19] <fuskern> i have the desktop, 4 icons, can't doubleclick any of them, they'll show for 1 sec and go away again
[00:19] <Aquina> See http://www.linux.com/articles/45679 for an intor on pipes and build a search term with that. ;-)
[00:19] <fuskern> can i do the edit from the yaboot screen? before booting anything.
[00:20] <Aquina> not so easy to do it that way. You could boot into run S and mount the volume then access whatever you need.
[00:21] <standarshy> charlie-tca: wooots, it's installing
[00:21] <Aquina> Modern bootmanagers support edition of the kernel boo line though.
[00:21] <charlie-tca> standarshy: :-)
[00:21] <standarshy> Using the alternative install disk totally brings be back to 2004 when I was installing linux distro's for the first time
[00:22] <Aquina> *lol* What kinda feeling was that?
[00:22] <charlie-tca> But it works!
[00:22] <fuskern> well i'm not a mac geek either, so all the terminal commands is a little over my head
[00:23] <fuskern> btw i installed xubuntu as the only system on the machine
[00:23] <Aquina> hm... I think that is a problem, fuskern.
[00:24] <standarshy> It does work, and as primitive as it looks, it's kinda better.  It's precise and right to the point, you know?
[00:24] <fuskern> well didn't really need it, so just deleted it.
[00:25] <Aquina> Try this, fuskern: http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&client=opera&rls=de&hs=xCf&q=%2Bedit+%22yaboot.conf%22+%2Bxubuntu+%2Bmac&btnG=Suche&lr=
[00:26] <fuskern> okay
[00:29] <Aquina> :-)
[00:29] <fuskern> is there a shortcut to terminal if the top menubar isn't available ?
[00:30] <zoredache> press alt-f2 and type xfce4-terminal or xterm
[00:31] <fuskern> cool, i'll give that a try.
[00:32] <fuskern> the weird thing tho, first time i booted it up with Linux video=ofonly, everything was running fine, just didn't know how to edit yaboot, and now that i think i know, it dosn't work
[00:35] <fuskern> what does sudo ybin do ?
[00:36] <zoredache> it runs the command ybin with root privileges...  no idea what ybin does though
[00:36] <fuskern> okay
[00:40] <fuskern> well, that didn't work, i'll get loading, and then the screen goes white, and fades to black
[00:43] <Aquina> What exactly did you do?
[00:46] <fuskern> i ran alt+f2 typed xterm, then gksudo mousepad /etc/yaboot.conf then added line append="video=ofonly" then saved and typed sudo ybin and rebooted
[00:47] <fuskern> no idear what that means, but it sounded fine in my ears. :)
[00:53] <Jan|> whats the default super user password?
[00:53] <zoredache> by default there is no password, the account is not active
[00:53] <Aquina> Jan|, use sudo and type YOUR OWN password. :-)
[00:53] <zoredache> if you need super-user privileges use sudo/gksu
[00:55] <Aquina> fuskern, so you could edit the file - great. Problem is I don't have a clue about yaboot.conf since it does seem to be an alternative thing I don't have on my System. It must be a different bootloader. I'll look it up.
[00:55] <zoredache> Aquina: it is a ppc bootloader
[00:56] <Aquina> Yeah. A bootloader I have no clue about it. Whis it was grub.
[00:56] <Aquina> :-)
[00:57] <fuskern> thanks Aquina
[00:58] <zoredache> you might trying asking on #ubuntu-ppc
[00:58] <Aquina> Ah I see it's a kernel parm as I thought...
[00:59] <Aquina> And I further guess it affects your X11 start so you dont see the bootsplash and login screen, right?
[01:00] <Aquina> Ok everyone listen so some music meanwhile :-) http://relay.slayradio.org:8000/relay.slayradio.org:8000
[01:01] <fuskern> if i do normal boot ?
[01:01] <Aquina> yes
[01:01] <Aquina> aehm no
[01:01] <fuskern> then it get to loading, screen turns white and then fades to black
[01:01] <Aquina> A ormal boot works except the gui has no bar right?
[01:02] <fuskern> i did Linux video=ofonly and there is no menubar, neither the buttom one
[01:03] <Aquina> Well... this seems to be an X problem to me not a bootloader specific one.
[01:04] <Aquina> Can't you execure "xfce-panel" somewhere?
[01:04] <Aquina> open a shell and enter it to see if it worxx
[01:04] <fuskern> through alt+f2 ?
[01:04] <Aquina> yeah
[01:04] <zoredache> fuskern: it would be better to start xterm, and then run it.  so when/if it crashes you'll see an error message
[01:05] <Aquina> oh yes
[01:05] <Aquina> He's right!!
[01:05] <fuskern> i've got xterm open
[01:05] <Aquina> ok enter "xfce-panel" without the quotations
[01:05] <fuskern> can't write xfce-panel command not found
[01:05] <zoredache> try xfce4-panel
[01:05] <Aquina> 2 n?
[01:05] <Aquina> ah yeah
[01:06] <fuskern> booya
[01:06] <Aquina> always the 4
[01:06] <Aquina> :-)))))
[01:06] <fuskern> worked
[01:06] <Aquina> Awesome!
[01:06] <fuskern> yeah
[01:06] <Aquina> :-)
[01:06] <fuskern> my icons on the desktop disappeared tho
[01:06] <Aquina> I had that problem months ago on a system but forgot about it in the meantime. What!?
[01:06] <zoredache> try running 'xfdesktop'
[01:07] <Aquina> No icons? Then try to logout (session end) + SAVE SESSION!
[01:07] <Aquina> Then login again and see if it works
[01:07] <fuskern> ah it says alsa: mixer attach default error no such file or directory, did it 4 times, guess that's my 4 icons
[01:07] <Aquina> (savn' the session will also make sure xfce4panel will be ok next time)
[01:08] <Aquina> oh
[01:08] <fuskern> xfdesktop did nothing
[01:09] <Aquina> But other icons work like trash or creating new ones? Are the panels still there after new login? does the Applications-menu work properly?
[01:10] <fuskern> how do i save ? is that the "sudo ybin"
[01:10] <Aquina> There's an instance of xfdesktop that maybe why. You can refresh the desktop after adding stuff via F5
[01:10] <zoredache> save what?
[01:10] <fuskern> no there is no icons on the desktop
[01:10] <Aquina> oh sure...
[01:10] <Aquina> Applications-->Settings-->Xfce4Settings
[01:11] <Aquina> Then configure the desktop behaviour. GNU/Linux+Xfce4 is not like windoze .-)
[01:11] <fuskern> zoredache , Aquina said save the session
[01:11] <fuskern> hehe
[01:11] <zoredache> when you log out, there is a check box to save or not to save
[01:12] <Aquina> yes :-)
[01:12] <fuskern> ah
[01:12] <fuskern> that one
[01:14] <Aquina> 1) Is there now for .e.g. a trash icon? 2)Are the panels still there after re-login? 3) Does the Applications-menu work properly?
[01:17] <fuskern> tryed a normal boot, didn't work, booting with video=ofonly again
[01:20] <fuskern> 1) no actualy icons on the desktop, but trash is also in the buttom panel, "failed to connect to trash" 2)panel is still there 3)appleication menu seems to work
[01:23] <standarshy> hmm, so xubuntu is really slow with only 128 mbs ram
[01:23] <vinoman> I'm having trouble enabling certain compiz effects, mainly the Scale effect. Enable is checked but it doesn't work. How to fix?
[01:24] <standarshy> Is the the very first boot of xubuntu slower than the others? or is it always the same?
[01:26] <Aquina> standarshy then try without Xfce *rofl*
[01:27] <zoredache> !lowmem
[01:28] <Aquina> standarshy I regularlsy have a 35 sec. boot (based on bootchart) but sometimes it takes ~60 about once a month.
[01:29] <zoredache> standarshy: the system resquirements of xubuntu is basically 192mb.  You can run in less, but it will take some work removing things, and it still won't be great
[01:29] <Aquina> fuskern so try a bot of google/metager/cuil research about the icon issue. ;-)
[01:29] <standarshy> I just logged on to xubuntu and it is taking forever to load.
[01:29] <Aquina> Good luck!
[01:30] <Aquina> Well it tries to optimize data in RAM.
[01:30] <Aquina> toredache why do you try it with 128Mib
[01:30] <standarshy> That link says minimum requrements with 32 mb
[01:30] <standarshy> I currently have 128 in
[01:31] <Aquina> In case you run an old box but wanna have a GUI try either fluxbox or maybe an alternative distro like slitaz
[01:31] <Aquina> 32 for Xfce?
[01:31] <zoredache> standarshy: you need to read a bit closer.  scroll down to the 'xubuntu' section.
[01:32] <zoredache> you can boot the linux kernel in 32, and some very basic functions, but can run a current desktop enviroment with the bells and whistles
[01:33] <standarshy> hmm
[01:33] <standarshy> I see
[01:34] <standarshy> I just found this computer, lol.  So I was just looking for an easy way to get it to run decently.  It was pretty slow with xp
[01:34] <standarshy> I was hoping xubuntu would be ok
[01:35] <Aquina> hm... It can work with 128 though.
[01:36] <zoredache> ram is pretty cheap... if you go dumpster diving you could probably even find some free
[01:36] <standarshy> Yea, this is true.  Although, I was hoping to resolve this more quickly.
[01:38] <Aquina> I think https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LowMemorySystems already provides you a good portion of "quick" things you can do.
[01:38] <standarshy> I might be able to tolerate it the way it is now
[03:48] <Jan|> thanks Aquina
[03:49] <Jan|> [19:53:47] <Aquina> Jan|, use sudo and type YOUR OWN password. :-)
[03:52] <Aquina> no problem. ;-)
[04:02] <spowers_> is there a set of xfce 4.6 packages built for intrepid?
[05:19] <j1mc> !nixternal
[05:36] <XPS_M1330> I want to try out XFCE... I was going to install the xubuntu-desktop package but it says it's v2.75... but XFCE is up to v4.6 now...
[05:37] <XPS_M1330> how come the version 3 still hasn't made it to official xubuntu release?
[05:40] <atrandom> i have a baracuda sound card from razer and i cannot figure out how to get it running
[05:40] <PK2> XPS_M1330: Try PC/OS, it's using XFCE 4.
[05:42] <XPS_M1330> I don't want to install another distro... I'll install the xfce4 metapackage see how it goes
[05:45] <XPS_M1330> 30MB download, that's funny! compared to 1GB KDE
[08:46] <eldenz> is there a way to show the linux startup messages instead of the splash screen?
[08:46] <TheSheep> remove 'quiet' from the boot options
[08:47] <TheSheep> and 'splash' if you want text mode
[08:47] <eldenz> cool thx
[08:47] <_Pete_> Hello, I have locale problem: I used to have iso8859-15 as locale and now tried switch it to utf8 but without luck so far
[08:47] <TheSheep> you can do it one-time by pressing 'e' in grub, or permanently by editing /boot/grub/menu.lst
[08:48] <TheSheep> _Pete_: system->language support
[08:48] <_Pete_> I changed /etc/environment back which it was orignally
[08:49] <_Pete_> TheSheep: ok right, locale is utf8 if I ssh to machine but not in the X
[08:50] <TheSheep> _Pete_: you can choose locale in login screen
[08:50] <TheSheep> _Pete_: and it will remember that
[08:50] <_Pete_> ok.. didn't notice that :)
[09:00] <Mood> is Listen broken in xubuntu?
[09:04] <eldenz> i think i'm blind... is there a GUI somewhere to configure networking? i didn't change anything -- ethernet wasn't connected during installation, though -- but it doesn't seem to get the ip through dhcp
[09:04] <eldenz> or if you can point me to the config file i'm fine as well :)
[09:05] <TheSheep> eldenz: right-click on the network icon next to the clock
[09:06] <eldenz> i *am* blind, thank you
[09:12] <eldenz> is there a way to get log/debug output from this process
[09:13] <eldenz> it attempts to do something then says disconnected... does it run dhclient?
[09:14] <eldenz> right. looks like i'm not getting any dhcpoffers... on the same ethernet cable and my laptop (winxp) i get them, though
[09:14] <TheSheep> eldenz: yes, I suppose it's all in /var/log somewhere
[09:14] <TheSheep> eldenz: you can run dhclient by hand, I think
[09:14] <TheSheep> with debug options
[09:14] <eldenz> i just did and it fails after some time with 'No DHCPOFFERS received.'
[09:15] <TheSheep> eldenz: well, see the logs on your dhcp server, I guess
[09:16] <eldenz> it's not mine :) from my school.. mh
[10:23] <eldenz> and how do i get into the Networkmanager if the icon is no longer there in the tray?
[10:26] <eldenz> aye, nm-connection-editor
[11:15] <Mark__T> how do you manipulate gdm to make Xfce Session default instead of Gnome Session for a new user?
[11:18] <_Pete_> gdm should automatically remmeber last session choosen
[11:22] <Mark__T> for a new user there is no last session
[12:02] <sivaguhan> hi everybody
[12:05] <eldenz> what's the preferred way to set up xinerama?
[12:05] <eldenz> is there some gui that i should use or is xorg.conf fine?
[12:20] <balor> Is there a CD boot param that will give me the old text-mode installer?
[12:21] <pleia2> balor: no, you'll need to use the alternate cd
[12:21] <balor> pleia2: thanks
[13:49] <tsoruchi> my external monitor goes black for no apparent reason. need help troubleshooting. thanks a lot.
[13:49] <TheSheep> try opening the laptop lid
[13:51] <tsoruchi> tried that. black also until i restart x.org with ctrl+alt+backspace. then laptop screen fine, but external monitor still black.
[13:52] <tsoruchi> the login screen comes up fine, but when i log in it goes black (the light on the monitor is green so i don't think it's on standby or anything)
[14:18] <MaxFrames> hello, need help please, xubuntu 8.10 and applet network manager 0.7.0 not working
[14:19] <MaxFrames> I can't use it to change the eth0 settings (ip, mask, gateway)
[14:19] <MaxFrames> and if I change them via command line, the changes are not displayed in the applet (the applet still shows the old values)
[14:21] <MaxFrames> if I try to change the eth0 properties from the applet, it says "connection update not supported - read only"
[14:21] <MaxFrames> then I suppose there is another GUI in xubuntu to change the ethernet properties... where?
[14:22] <MaxFrames> and in all cases, why doesn't the applet reflect the changes I make via command line?
[14:35] <charlie-tca> Got any ps3 users here? I need to know if you have to install 'ps3-utils' after Xubuntu installed?
[14:40] <MaxFrames> hello, anyone to help me please? can't change network address
[15:09] <Jan|> how do I change gslideshow settings?
[15:44] <MaxFrames> hello-.-.-please help urgent
[15:44] <MaxFrames> network manager applet not working---tried to remove it---the icon is still in the taskbar and complains network manager not running
[15:44] <MaxFrames> help thanks
[15:46] <MaxFrames> nobody here???
[15:48] <charlie-tca> MaxFrames: maybe try #ubuntu, it will be almost the same
[15:49] <dmizer> hello, how do i change the name of the home icon on the desktop to my username?
[15:55] <dmizer> it's confusing the blazes out of my old man, who doesn't understand why it says his username when he opens up "home"
[15:55] <brandonban6> dmizer, does the rename utility from terminal work? (just guessing here)
[15:56] <MaxFrames> so there *is* someone
[15:56] <MaxFrames> this network manager is driving me nuts
[15:56] <dmizer> brandonban6: i am unsure how to use rename from the cli on a folder that doesn't actually exist.
[15:57] <charlie-tca> dmizer: it is not the same to Xubuntu. Home is different than home. Home designates it as his.
[15:57] <charlie-tca> Note the capital "H"
[15:57] <brandonban6> hi charlie-tca
[15:57] <dmizer> charlie-tca: yes, i understand this. my father does not.
[15:58] <dmizer> charlie-tca: i just want the "Home" icon link on the desktop to say his username instead of "Home"
[15:58] <charlie-tca> Explain that "home" is all users, "Home" is just for him
[15:58] <MaxFrames> let's try with an easier approach: can you suggest an alternative to the default network manager applet, to get a network icon on the taskbar?
[15:59] <charlie-tca> MaxFrames: you could remove Network Manager and use wicd
[15:59] <dmizer> charlie-tca: sorry, that's just not going to work.
[15:59] <MaxFrames> wicd, OK
[15:59] <charlie-tca> hello, brandonban6
[15:59] <MaxFrames> does that work for cabled connections as well?
[15:59] <charlie-tca> not to my knowledge
[15:59] <charlie-tca> wicd is wirelesscd
[16:00] <dmizer> charlie-tca: while that may seem like a reasonable solution to you, your memory is fine, and you can make the connection between "Home" and "username", my father constantly forgets and gets confused and angry.
[16:00] <MaxFrames> I have no wireless connection. I have a wired connection for which I'd like to have an icon on the taskbar
[16:01] <MaxFrames> the network manager comes with an icon, but is full of bugs and I have had to remove it and replaced it with Ubuntu's standard "Network" module
[16:01] <MaxFrames> but it has no icon
[16:03] <dmizer> brandonban6: can you explain in more detail what you meant earlier about the rename utility?
[16:04] <dmizer> MaxFrames: if you just want an icon that shows network activity, just right click on the system tray, click "add item" and select "Network Monitor"
[16:05] <dmizer> MaxFrames: that will not (as far as i remember) give you the ability to manipulate the network settings though.
[16:05] <brandonban6> dmizer, I don't know that would work either...I'm at work now, and not next to my xubuntu box to try it out. What you can do is long list your dad's desktop (ls -l /home/username/Desktop/) and see if the home file show up........if so you can use rename oldname newname to change the name.
[16:06] <brandonban6> dmizer, if the file does not show up, this means it is mounted, you need to find the "mount point" possibly in fstab or there is another location I forget off the top of my head.
[16:07] <dmizer> brandonban6 it doesn't show up from the CLI with ls -a
[16:07] <MaxFrames> dmizer: never mind, I'll use other methods to change settings, I just need an icon
[16:07] <dmizer> MaxFrames: then all you need to do is open synaptic, search for networkmanager and uninstall it.
[16:08] <dmizer> brandonban6: it's also not mounted. this is something that's created by thunar.
[16:13] <brandonban6> dmizer, perhaps you can remove the home icon all together from the the desktop settings menu, and create a short link to your dad's home folder naming it whatever you want to.
[16:13] <dmizer> brandonban6: that may be a viable solution.
[16:18] <dmizer> brandonban6: thank you for your suggestion, that's going to work perfectly.
[16:19] <dmizer> brandonban6: not sure why i didn't think of that myself ... heh.
[16:19] <brandonban6> no problemo :)
[16:20] <dmizer> brandonban6: my poor dad, he gets easily confused ... sometimes to the point where it makes me confused.
[16:20] <dmizer> sheesh.
[16:20] <dmizer> ttyl
[16:21] <dmizer> thanks again.
[16:34] <charlie-tca> brandonban6: when you dmizer again, offer this suggestion, if I don't remember to
[16:35] <charlie-tca> turn off the Home icon, create a shortcut direct to the user name
[16:42] <brandonban6> charlie-tca, already did :) <brandonban6> dmizer, perhaps you can remove the home icon all together from the the desktop settings menu, and create a short link to your dad's home folder naming it whatever you want to.
[16:42] <brandonban6> * zoredache has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
 brandonban6: that may be a viable solution.
 brandonban6: thank you for your suggestion, that's going to work perfectly.
[16:44] <charlie-tca> so, I might be a little behind?
[16:45] <brandonban6> its okay, you have 18 channels to watch :D
[16:45] <charlie-tca> got a meeting, too
[17:30] <danopia> hi
[17:30] <charlie-tca> !hi | danopia
[17:31] <danopia> sorry for my /amsg
[17:31]  * danopia wonders if he can set up channel exceptions
[17:32] <charlie-tca> What ??
[17:40] <imfluxible> i installed ub 8.10 on my friends emachines T3646, and seem to be getting lots of misbehaviors i wonder if anyone can help me troubleshoot.  they apparently play a lot of board games online at pogo.com, so if anyone has any experience using that site maybe you will relate.  to enable the games we had to install a java 6 alternative, which i think i did correctly yesterday from community doc...
[17:40] <imfluxible> ...instructions.  the games did work yesterday as they were supposed to, but today when she booted up she had several problems... the games wouldn't work, her gnome panel (with applications, places, and system) would not appear persistently (it dissappears), and she says the browser freezes up.  also the window bars do not appear on her windows so cannot move , resize or 'X' out .... any ideas?
[17:41] <charlie-tca> If it is Ubuntu, ask in #ubuntu, they will know more about it.
[17:41] <imfluxible> also she says many things on her aol mail interface would not function, various buttons
[17:48] <imfluxible> i was hoping someone here could help, theres so many people in ubuntu you can't hear yourself think
[17:50] <Aquina> :-)
[17:50] <Aquina> What's the matter, imfluxible?
[17:54] <charlie-tca> if anyone can help me troubleshoot.  they apparently play a lot of board games online at pogo.com, so if anyone has any experience using that site maybe you will relate.  to enable the games we had to install a java 6 alternative, which i think i did correctly yesterday from community doc...
 ...instructions.  the games did work yesterday as they were supposed to, but today when she booted up she had several problems... the games wouldn't work, her gnome panel (with applications, places, and system) would not appear persistently (it dissappears), and she says the browser freezes up.  also the window bars do not appear on her windows so cannot move , resize or 'X' out .... any ideas?
[17:54] <charlie-tca> All of that, Aquina
 i installed ub 8.10 on my friends emachines T3646, and seem to be getting lots of misbehaviors i wonder if anyone can help me troubleshoot.  they apparently play a lot of board games online at pogo.com, so if anyone has any experience using that site maybe you will relate.  to enable the games we had to install a java 6 alternative, which i think i did correctly yesterday from community doc...
[17:54] <charlie-tca> missed the first lines
[18:31] <Aquina> Huh?
[18:32] <Aquina> Is that a #xubuntu related question, imfluxible?
[18:32] <imfluxible> am i still in the room?
[18:32] <Aquina> yes
[18:32] <imfluxible> hmmmm... guess so
[18:32] <Aquina> I do not understand what the question is.
[18:33] <Aquina> Your friend installed Hardy and had misbehaviours.
[18:33] <Aquina> *lol*
[18:34] <Aquina> Your friend installed Hardy and had misbehaviours with java using a website applet, right?
[18:35] <Aquina> So I recommend you to either file a bug report or check with the devs of that Java runtime.
[18:39] <charlie-tca> Anybody want to try 4.6 on intrepid and hardy? Get it here: https://launchpad.net/~jerome-guelfucci/+archive/ppa . File the bugs against it and subcribe me to them, please
[18:46] <charlie-tca> Got any ps3 users here? I need to know if you have to install 'ps3-utils' after Xubuntu installed?
[18:46]  * wormsxulla_ is on gutsy
[18:47] <knome> charlie-tca, ps3 as playstation 3? ;)
[19:00] <charlie-tca> yeah, knome
[19:01] <charlie-tca> We have a port for ppc/ps3
[19:01] <knome> i know. unfortunately i don't own ps3 nor any other gaming console.
[19:01] <charlie-tca> me neither, but I want to clear a bug about it
[19:02] <knome> yeah. maybe bug submitter?
[19:03] <titan-ark> hello everyone :)
[19:03] <wormsxulla_> hi
[19:09] <charlie-tca> knome: I am hoping to get a test on Jaunty
[19:10] <titan_ark> charlie-tca, hey :) how u doing?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> still around, I guess
[19:11] <knome> charlie-tca, test on jaunty on ps3?
[19:11] <charlie-tca> Why not? we have the port available
[19:13] <knome> yeah. i was just making sure. i think you will have hard time finding anybody running jaunty on ps3 :)
[19:13] <knome> people are reluctant to upgrade even with their pcs
[19:15] <nikolam> knome i heard that only about 190 MB or so is is available to Linux on PS3
[19:16] <knome> might be true. it will be a hard time running jaunty with a ps3, if it is.
[19:19] <charlie-tca> We got somebody doing it already, though
[19:19] <charlie-tca> I just can't remember his name
[19:32] <knome> oh
[19:55] <_Pete_> !vnc
[20:01] <brandonban6> is XFCE 4.6 in the updates? Or do you have manually update it?
[20:04] <nikolam> brandonban6, what is so new in 4.6?
[20:07] <brandonban6> nikolam, http://www.xfce.org/about/tour ...
[20:10] <charlie-tca> brandonban6: Xfce 4.6 is in jaunty
[20:10] <charlie-tca> Also, Anybody want to try 4.6 on intrepid and hardy? Get it here: https://launchpad.net/~jerome-guelfucci/+archive/ppa . File the bugs against it and subcribe me to them, please
[20:10] <brandonban6> thanks charlie-tca
[20:11] <charlie-tca> me, being charlie-tca
[20:36] <Almindor> hey, probably a common question but is there a repository for xfce 4.6 for intrepid?
[20:36] <Almindor> I found one from the beta-times but it wasn't updated to 4.6final it seems
[20:37] <charlie-tca> Also, Anybody want to try 4.6 on intrepid and hardy? Get it here: https://launchpad.net/~jerome-guelfucci/+archive/ppa . File the bugs against it and subcribe me to them, please
[20:38] <Almindor> thx
[20:38] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:43] <Brad450> how do i change from GNOME to XFCE??
[20:44] <charlie-tca> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[20:44] <Brad450> also how do i uninstall recently added updates my machine is acting funny
[20:44] <charlie-tca> much, much harder
[20:44] <Brad450> shoot
[20:44] <charlie-tca> !downgrade
[20:45] <Brad450> well a bunch of stuff in the built in update maneger is really messing wiht my system
[20:45] <charlie-tca> Try picking the next line when you are at the grub menu. not recovery, but one below it
[20:46] <charlie-tca> did you today's updates?
[20:46] <Brad450> ?? noob here lol???
[20:46] <Brad450> i did a update yesterday
[20:46] <charlie-tca> run it again today.  I hate those call centers, for more than one reason.
[21:38] <joeburns> noob here, trying to get wireless usb network adapter working on this ancient dell latitude through ndiswrapper and ndisgtk.  everytime i try to install ndisgtk i get 'error: dependency is not satisfiable: ndiswrapper -utils
[21:38] <joeburns> anyone willing to help?
[21:43] <charlie-tca> Many are willing. Many are not able to help, unfortunately
[21:43] <joeburns> for what reason?
[21:43] <charlie-tca> We don't know how to make it work
[21:44] <charlie-tca> Knowledge is lacking, at times
[21:44] <charlie-tca> If you don't get some help here, you can try #ubuntu. It is pretty close to the same.
[21:44] <charlie-tca> !wireless
[21:44] <charlie-tca> !ndiswrapper
[21:45] <charlie-tca> !info ndiswrapper
[21:45] <joeburns> do you know if it will work using ndiswrapper command line? i've tried everything i could find online relating to ndisgtk
[21:45] <joeburns> oookay
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I don't know
[21:45] <joeburns> okay, i'll check around.. thanks though
[21:46] <charlie-tca> good luck
[21:48] <joeburns> i'll need it.. i really have no idea what i'm getting myself into
[21:48] <joeburns> :/
[21:57] <zoredache> it might be easier in the long run to find a wireless adapter that is acutally supported out of the box
[21:59] <wormsxulla_> joeburns: in search engines, your error message give a few hits
[21:59] <wormsxulla_> gives*
[22:11] <tekteen> if I install xubuntu-desktop, does it install a new login manager?
[22:11] <tekteen> like gdm/kdm
[22:12] <charlie-tca> gdm
[22:12] <tekteen> ok
[22:12] <tekteen> is there a xfce login manager?
[22:14] <charlie-tca> JPohlmann: Is there an Xfce login manager?
[22:14] <JPohlmann> charlie-tca: Nope
[22:14] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[22:14] <charlie-tca> tekteen: get that ?
[22:15] <tekteen> ok
[22:15] <tekteen> thanks
[22:15] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[22:45] <kevyg> so... being new to this whole linux thing... can anyone help me connect to a wireless wpa?
[22:45] <charlie-tca> !wireless
[22:47] <imfluxible> has anybody downloaded pyscrabble from synaptic?  i am having trouble understanding the configuration process.  you have to enter some sort of hostname:port number ... and i don't know what to put there.  it offers you a couple of public servers, and says it will save the info, but doesn't seem to work.
[22:49] <kevyg> should i use fwcutter or ndiswrapper to connect to wpa?
[22:51] <kevyg> everytime i try to connect to my wireless network... it says "authentication required by wireless network"... but i've already put in the password
[23:02] <imfluxible> has anybody downloaded pyscrabble from synaptic?  i am having trouble understanding the configuration process.  you have to enter some sort of hostname:port number ... and i don't know what to put there.  it offers you a couple of public servers, and says it will save the info, but doesn't seem to work.
[23:47] <charlie-tca> Got any ps3 users here? I need to know if you have to install 'ps3-utils' after Xubuntu installed?
[23:47] <imfluxible> has anybody downloaded pyscrabble from synaptic?  i am having trouble understanding the configuration process.  you have to enter some sort of hostname:port number ... and i don't know what to put there.  it offers you a couple of public servers, and says it will save the info, but doesn't seem to work.
[23:52] <charlie-tca> imfluxible: I just installed it. It asks for username, password, hostname?
[23:52] <durt> imfluxible: do you understand what hostname:portnumber means?
[23:53] <charlie-tca> Looks like it should be the name in Server Listing
[23:53] <durt> imfluxible: also installing it. love scabble.
[23:53] <durt> scrabble*
[23:53] <imfluxible> durt, and charlie, no i don't understand
[23:54] <durt> hostname means name of the computer or IP address of computer.
[23:54] <imfluxible> it shows the two public servers, bacasoft and pyscrabble, so i don't know if i'm sposed to decipher the numeric of that address?
[23:54] <imfluxible> you mean MY ip?
[23:55] <charlie-tca> Just type the public server name in
[23:55] <imfluxible> and then what for port?
[23:55] <durt> port number means what port number the program is running on, eg web servers run on 80, mail servers on 53 etc.
[23:55] <charlie-tca> I don't see port
[23:55] <imfluxible> says input hostname:port
[23:56] <imfluxible> but shows hostname as a numeric address
[23:56] <zoredache> durt: dns is 53, mail is 25...
[23:56] <charlie-tca> I see now. Used to connect manually, it wants the hostname and port on your computer
[23:56] <imfluxible> if you click on their online help page, it shows an example of port as 9999
[23:56] <durt> possibly in docs. zoredache: oops
[23:57] <imfluxible> don't know if/how to do automagically, it wouldn't do it for me
[23:59] <charlie-tca> well, for goodness sake
[23:59] <imfluxible> thats what i said
[23:59] <charlie-tca> Forget using the server given


[01:00] <TheReaperKing1> Howdy
[01:01] <TheReaperKing1> we had a guy who was nice enough to put an app of mine into the software center but unfortunately the newest version has some issues
[01:01] <TheReaperKing1> I was trying to write a review to provide information it but the login prompt seems to time out
[01:02] <TheReaperKing1> err provide information for it
[01:02] <TheReaperKing1> I'm referring to this app.  For whatever reason he doesn't have it set to download the data for the mod, I have sent him a message on launchpad
[01:02] <TheReaperKing1> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/sandboxgamemaker/
[01:03] <TheReaperKing1> I'm new to Ubuntu so I'm still learning my way around


[01:31] <gmarzioz> #geologia
[01:35] <Tm_T> ok
[10:08] <mvo> @berlin
[10:14] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[10:14] <juliux> ;)
[11:28] <inetpro> @schedule Johannesburg
[12:01] <inetpro> @schedule Pretoria
[15:59] <robbiew> hi all :)
[15:59] <TheMuso> Hey robbiew.
[16:00] <cjwatson> afternoon
[16:00]  * cjwatson skates his activity report in just in time, whoops
[16:00] <evand> hello
[16:00] <robbiew> heh
[16:00] <liw> hey
[16:00] <liw> oh, activity report *blush*
[16:00] <robbiew> cjwatson isn't the only one ;)
[16:01] <robbiew> don't worry...I probably won't get to reading them to later this afternoon
[16:01] <james_w> hi all
[16:01] <cjwatson> good example and all that
[16:01] <robbiew> multiple back-to-back meetings today...whoopee!
[16:02] <robbiew> I'm showing slangasek at Lexington today, so not sure if he's showing up
[16:02] <slangasek> if I can keep track of the clock
[16:02] <slangasek> morning
[16:02] <robbiew> doko, mvo: joining?
[16:03] <robbiew> slangasek: :)...aren't timezones fun?
[16:03] <slangasek> yes!
[16:03] <TheMuso> robbiew: Too right they are. :p
[16:03] <doko> robbiew: online
[16:03] <robbiew> doko: good evening sir...thanks!
[16:04] <robbiew> suppose I should start it
[16:04] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew.
[16:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 1
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1
[16:05] <robbiew> forgot that on the agenda :P
[16:05] <robbiew> figure we should at least mention it
[16:05] <cjwatson> slangasek may have stuff to mention there, I certainly do
[16:05] <slangasek> I see d-i has been uploaded, but ubiquity hasn't yet
[16:05] <cjwatson> installer is now merged so theoretically we are ready to go with initial build testing; just doing an initial alternate CD build now
[16:05] <cjwatson> evand is on ubiquity, I think ...
[16:06] <slangasek> I think that's the main blocker; there's some kubuntu uninstallables that Riddell is working on
[16:06] <cjwatson> I suspect that there will be some early failures
[16:06]  * slangasek nods
[16:06] <cjwatson> the GTK d-i frontend is merged and built but known broken
[16:06] <cjwatson> (fails to boot with some inscrutable error message)
[16:06] <cjwatson> I'll need to dig into that, but probably not for alph a1
[16:06] <evand> ja, partitioning is broken in ubiquity.  I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.
[16:06] <cjwatson> hm. not a surprise I guess. ping me if you need a hang
[16:06] <cjwatson> hand
[16:07] <evand> noted, thanks
[16:07] <cjwatson> we could go for alternate-only, and indeed that might be sensible?
[16:07] <cjwatson> we've done that in the past
[16:07] <cjwatson> (and server)
[16:07] <slangasek> that would be fine, if that's where we are
[16:08] <slangasek> no sense in dragging out the milestone freeze for stuff that's just Not Ready Yet
[16:08] <cjwatson> this is way earlier than we've ever done an alpha 1 before, as I've observed elsewhere
[16:08] <robbiew> right...it is just an Alpha
[16:08] <cjwatson> so I don't feel bad about it being partial
[16:09] <cjwatson> particularly with armel consuming energy as well
[16:09] <doko> armel already looks better than hppa =)
[16:09] <cjwatson> :-)
[16:09] <TheMuso> Thats not hard. :p
[16:09] <slangasek> heh
[16:10] <robbiew> anything else on this topic?
[16:10] <robbiew> once...
[16:10] <robbiew> twice...
[16:10] <robbiew> gone!
[16:10] <robbiew> [TOPIC] UDS
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS
[16:11] <robbiew> So I'm trying to at least organize blueprints for the roadmap items
[16:11] <robbiew> and then we need address any other ideas from the team
[16:12] <slangasek> is there a reference for the roadmap?
[16:12] <slangasek> (URL)
[16:12] <cjwatson> only internal at the moment, https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Roadmaps/9.04
[16:12] <cjwatson> there's also some stuff linked off wiki.u.c/FoundationsTeam
[16:12] <robbiew> thnx
[16:13]  * slangasek nods
[16:13] <robbiew> yeah, I plan on creating at list of our specific blueprints for the public wiki as well
[16:14] <robbiew> you can see them all at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty
[16:14] <robbiew> with the schedule located here: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/
[16:15]  * mvo is here, sorry for being late
[16:15] <doko> ok, I should add one ... python will be fun this cycle
[16:15] <robbiew> np
[16:15] <robbiew> perfect timing
[16:16]  * mvo is confused "19 Nov 18:00: Platform Team" <- according to topic?
[16:16] <cjwatson> if you already have ideas for the blueprints robbiew has created, there's no harm dropping them into a clearly-marked section at the end of the spec now
[16:16] <cjwatson> mvo: the fridge calendar is ... not exactly 100% accurate sometimes
[16:16] <cjwatson> I'll mail ubuntu-news-team after the meeting to get it corrected
[16:16] <mvo> thanks!
[16:17] <robbiew> mvo: discussing UDS session topics...you had some good ideas
[16:17]  * mvo should have used his google calendar
[16:17] <mvo> alpha-1> I enabled release-upgrades for it "update-manager -d" should work
[16:18] <mvo> uds topics> python is going to be interessting, I would be interessted in porting my stuff to python2.6 (to prepare for 3.0)
[16:18] <cjwatson> likewise
[16:19] <liw> I'd be interested in helping port Python stuff to 2.6
[16:19]  * mvo has a terrible long list of ideas
[16:19] <doko> I'm almost sure that I can't do this alone
[16:20] <robbiew> one thing to keep in mind for this release, is the bug fixing effort...so we have to be mindful of how much feature work we plan for
[16:20] <mvo> one of the cool things that came up recently in debian is screenshots.debian.net - it would be cool if we could discuss something like this at uds and maybe talk to the debian people behind it
[16:20] <doko> another: please have better interaction for archive rebuilds / ftbfs packages during the release cycle
[16:21] <cjwatson> doko: indeed I think it would be unwise for you to try to do so - half the point of python 2.6 is to get people used to the newer constructs they need to use, isn't it?
[16:23] <doko> cjwatson: well, 2.5->2.6 looks easier than 2.4 -> 2.5. there are some source changes needed (new keywords, but these are fairly simple to solve)
[16:23] <cjwatson> has_key becomes deprecated IIRC
[16:23] <cjwatson> foo.has_key(bar) -> bar in foo
[16:24] <cjwatson> (which you can do in 2.x anyway of course)
[16:24] <mvo> "with" becomes a keyword
[16:24] <cjwatson> can we aim for only 2.6 on the CD for jaunty?
[16:24] <doko> yes, trying ...
[16:24] <liw> is zope still 2.4 only?
[16:24] <doko> zope2
[16:24] <liw> oh, but it's not on the cd, never mind
[16:24] <cjwatson> if you're using "with" as a variable name, mind you, I think that's a little odd :)
[16:24] <doko> but should we care about it?
[16:24] <mvo> doko: how much is C api going to change (if at all)?
[16:25] <doko> not that much, its better than the 2.5 change
[16:25]  * mvo nods
[16:27] <robbiew> ok...assuming that discussion is done :)
[16:27] <robbiew> anything else regarding UDS planning?
[16:28] <mvo> can we still add topic suggestions to the wiki? or is it too late now?
[16:28] <robbiew> not too late...but getting close
[16:28] <mvo> ok, thanks
[16:29] <robbiew> I'm thinking Friday should be the last day
[16:30] <robbiew> with a short week in the US coming up...then another with FOSSCamp
[16:30] <robbiew> need to get the Specs started
[16:30] <robbiew> ok...next on the agenda is bugs
[16:30] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs
[16:30] <robbiew> don't think there's much to cover here
[16:31] <slangasek> is "hotkey madness" explicitly on the UDS schedule anywhere?
[16:31] <cjwatson> I gave robbiew the usual bug links
[16:31]  * TheMuso remembers seeing stuff re acpi/power management... I think
[16:31] <cjwatson> jaunty alpha 1 is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2209
[16:31] <slangasek> not power management, just hotkeys...
[16:31] <cjwatson> just the one there
[16:32] <cjwatson> slangasek: yes, it's on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/December2008
[16:32] <slangasek> ok
[16:33] <mvo> what does "EPR" mean?
[16:33] <cjwatson> where's that?
[16:33] <mvo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/update-manager/+bug/284408
[16:33] <robbiew> where do you see that?
[16:34] <cjwatson> I think it might be an AMD code
[16:34] <cjwatson> check with bryce
[16:34] <mvo> aha, thanks
[16:34] <cjwatson> yes, bryce said: "This issue has been forwarded to AMD as EPR#257839."
[16:34] <robbiew> probably their internal bug tracking
[16:34] <liw> "external problem report" perhaps?
[16:34] <robbiew> ;)
[16:35] <robbiew> ok, so for bugs...the usual...watch yours and any hot ones that come across
[16:36]  * mvo will take care of the update-manager one
[16:36] <cjwatson> there are one or two of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs that are worth cleaning up anyway
[16:36] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:36] <cjwatson> I'll take the lintian one
[16:36] <cjwatson> and maybe klibc if I have time
[16:37] <robbiew> k, thnx
[16:37]  * TheMuso got onto main-sponsors yesterday so will be able to more actively help out with sponsoring, so far as cleaning up bugs on the queue goes.
[16:37]  * liw still can't sponsor anything, but is going to apply for UCD tonight/tomorrow
[16:37] <cjwatson> yeah, it's time to get back into the sponsorship queue now that merges are nearly out of the way
[16:37] <robbiew> cool..thnx sir!
[16:37] <slangasek> I've been less than effective at sponsorship this week (i.e., didn't get any done)
[16:38] <robbiew> james_w is a sponsoring beast!
[16:38] <cjwatson> slangasek: I think you have an excuse, being in Lex
[16:38] <slangasek> I suppose :)
[16:38] <robbiew> yep, agree
[16:39] <robbiew> ok...moving right along
[16:39] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Activity Reports
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Activity Reports
[16:40] <robbiew> I haven't had a chance to review all of them yet...since most came in today :P
[16:40] <robbiew> anything anyone wants to mention here?
[16:40] <robbiew> that CAN be mentioned here ;)
[16:40] <cjwatson> I wanted to mention http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/architecture-mismatches.txt as another tool for archive admins
[16:40] <cjwatson> it's empty at the moment because I dealt with it :)
[16:41] <cjwatson> but it reports problems where overrides have got out of sync between architectures for some reason, which happens occasionally due to Soyuz bugs
[16:41] <slangasek> I'm sure I'll forget that url... is it linked from somewhere?
[16:41] <cjwatson> I'll put it on the wiki if I can remember where the other *-mismatches are listed
[16:42] <slangasek> ok :)
[16:42] <cjwatson> ArchiveAdministration I guess
[16:42] <slangasek> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Consistency
[16:43] <cjwatson> none of the other *-mismatches were there though
[16:43] <cjwatson> I put it on ArchiveAdministration but feel free to add it elsewhere
[16:43] <slangasek> ok
[16:43] <cjwatson> (under "Useful web pages")
[16:44] <cjwatson> [that's all from me]
[16:44] <robbiew> heh...shouldn't they all be "useful"?
[16:45] <robbiew> that's all for me as well
[16:45] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:45] <robbiew> anything else folks want to cover?
[16:45] <cjwatson> good news: I found a way to ditch 3MB+ of data from the CD ... bad news: I think I might want to add the GTK d-i frontend, which is 10MB+
[16:46] <cjwatson> maybe I'll only add it on the server CD for the moment, which has plenty of space
[16:46] <cjwatson> also, lots of people here should be well able to help out with fixing misc build failures in the armel port in progress
[16:46] <cjwatson> as doko said it's actually doing reasonably well with uninstallables at the moment, but still several more to fix
[16:46] <cjwatson> if you're interested, hop onto #ubuntu-arm
[16:47]  * mvo joins
[16:47] <cjwatson> you don't necessarily need hardware, I don't have any
[16:47] <TheMuso> cjwatson: If you could give me a heads up as to what needs to be done seed wise for the gtk installer, I am happy to look into putting things in place for studio to use it as well.
[16:47] <doko> I tagged some of them ftbfs-armel
[16:47] <mvo> cjwatson: how do you test it, do you use qemu-system-arm?
[16:47] <mvo> what kind of failures are that usually?
[16:47] <NCommander> mvo, you can't use qemu-system-arm out of the box
[16:47] <cjwatson> TheMuso: will do once I work it out myself; no great rush since it doesn't actually work yet
[16:47] <doko> and please ping a buildd admin to rescore fixed builds
[16:47] <NCommander> It doesn't target new EABI ARM
[16:48] <cjwatson> mvo: a number of the failures are reproducible on i386, and only haven't bitten it because we haven't rebuilt the package in question for a while
[16:48] <cjwatson> or reproducible if you set up some special situation, or obvious for some other reasson
[16:48] <cjwatson> reason
[16:48] <ogra> mvo, if you need something tested, feel free to poke me
[16:48] <NCommander> mvo, or me
[16:48] <ogra> or NCommander :)
[16:48] <mvo> excellent!
[16:48] <cjwatson> I think there are three people on #ubuntu-arm now who've confessed to having a working bootstrap
[16:49] <NCommander> We're making excellent progress, we cleared gtk's build-deps, and I kicked mono and fixed it last night
[16:49] <cjwatson> it's all very early port days, exciting if you're a weirdo like me who happens to enjoy that kind of thing ;-)
[16:50]  * mvo thinks that sounds like fun, but having a VM with a "real" arm system would be even more fun :)
[16:50]  * NCommander loves porting work
[16:50] <liw> is there going to be a qemu-system-arm that works out of the box?
[16:50] <NCommander> I feel like I'm back on Debian :-P
[16:50] <cjwatson> we should have access to a bit more hardware soon, hopefully involving a porting box in the DC
[16:50] <NCommander> liw, no, but I can merge the arm eabi patches into our QEMU, but they're still somewhat experimental
[16:50] <TheMuso> A porting box would be good.
[16:51] <doko> cjwatson: I think we should disable the debian archive soonish (e.g. once the kde stuff can be built)
[16:51] <cjwatson> we're just a bit short of hardware right now
[16:51] <cjwatson> doko: I agree, really needs infinity to get back though
[16:51] <cjwatson> which I think is soon
[16:51] <cjwatson> we'll get by for the moment, I think
[16:51] <NCommander> doko, I have a patch to clear the KDE FTBFS, I'm simply watching to make sure I haven't broke i386/amd64 first
[16:51] <doko> NCommander: very nice!
[16:51] <NCommander> doko, I did this for m68k ;-)
[16:52] <NCommander> We've got X11's build-deps cleared; I won't be suprised if we can install ubuntu-desktop relatively soon
[16:53] <doko> NCommander: then please fix gnat and openjdk for m68k as well ;p
[16:53] <TheMuso> As soon as pulseaudio has its libltdl weirdness sorted out at least.
[16:53] <NCommander> gnat on m68k requires a bootstrap, I already did one, but I had trouble getting the actual Debian packages to compile once I candian-crossed the compiler
[16:53] <NCommander> openjdk has an in-progress port, it needed some helper functions
[16:54] <NCommander> ^- doko
[16:54] <liw> I think we're running out of time
[16:55] <robbiew> yep..anything else?
[16:55] <robbiew> once...
[16:55] <robbiew> twice...
[16:55] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:55] <robbiew> :)
[16:55] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:55.
[16:55] <doko> robbiew: well done for the first meeting :0)
[16:56] <evand> thanks!
[16:56] <robbiew> thanks!
[16:56] <liw> thanks
[16:56] <TheMuso> Thanks,
[16:56] <mvo> thanks
[16:56] <robbiew> doko: thanks :)
[16:56] <NCommander> I should sit in on more foundation teams meetings, its an interesting experience
[16:56] <james_w> thanks all
[16:57] <robbiew> lol
[16:57] <robbiew> NCommander: glad you enjoyed it
[17:00]  * heno waves
[17:00] <pedro_> hello everybody!
[17:01] <heno> bdmurray, ogasawara, sbeattie, schwuk: meeting ping
[17:01]  * ogasawara waves
[17:01] <bdmurray> hi
[17:01] <heno> ara is on holiday
[17:02] <sbeattie> hey
[17:03]  * ogasawara forgot to add some items to the agenda
[17:04] <heno> ogasawara: go for it
[17:04] <heno> ok, let's start
[17:04] <NCommander> this is the QA team meeting, right?
[17:04] <sbeattie> NCommander: correct
[17:04] <heno> #startmeeting
[17:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:04. The chair is heno.
[17:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:04] <heno> [TOPIC] UDS topics
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS topics
[17:04]  * schwuk waves (with cup of tea in *other* hand)
[17:04]  * NCommander has a request of the QA team once there is a moment to bring up new business
[17:06] <heno> I've talked with several of you about UDS topic ideas
[17:06] <heno> please add them to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-jaunty/+specs
[17:07] <heno> shall we agree on a naming convention? qa-* say
[17:07] <davmor2> Hi
[17:07] <sbeattie> heno: doh. Can they be renamed? :-)
[17:07] <heno> I'll flush out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs and we'll track them there
[17:08] <heno> sbeattie: yes, I think so
[17:08] <sbeattie> good. I'm fine with a qa- prefix
[17:08] <heno> (perhaps only drivers can do that?)
[17:09] <heno> sbeattie: ok, page flushed
[17:10] <heno> [TOPIC] Alpha 1 testing
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1 testing
[17:11] <heno> We are in alpha 'freeze' now and expect new images tomorrow I guess
[17:11] <heno> we need to give them a quick sanity test
[17:12] <heno> cr3: is your daily build testing machinery running normally now?
[17:12] <james_w> likely to be alternate-only
[17:12] <heno> davmor2: can you take a few alternates for a spin tomorrow?
[17:13] <heno> james_w: ok, thanks
[17:13] <cr3> heno: I haven't touched it in a while and I haven't seen any images on cdimage either yesterday or the day before, I actually checked manually
[17:13] <heno> we'll coordinate in #ubuntu-testing as usual
[17:13] <davmor2> heno: might be able to when I get back home
[17:13] <cr3> heno: there seems to be images though, so I'll see what's going on
[17:13] <heno> cr3: ok. alpha 1 is always a bit uncertain
[17:14] <cr3> heno: ok, best effort then
[17:14] <heno> yep
[17:14] <heno> [TOPIC] The <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> kernel stable patch sets
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  The <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> kernel stable patch sets
[17:14] <heno> ogasawara: ^
[17:14] <ogasawara> I just wanted to note that those patch sets are in the kernel sitting in intrepid-proposed
[17:15] <ogasawara> if there are any major regressions, let me know
[17:15] <sbeattie> where's <IP_ADDRESS> in the process (is it released yet?)
[17:15] <pedro_> anything special that'd require more testing?
[17:15] <heno> cr3 is working on getting some testing for proposed
[17:15] <ogasawara> sbeattie: bug 296500 is the SRU for <IP_ADDRESS> - not released yet or even accepted to -proposed
[17:16] <ogasawara> pedro_: I'm happy with boot tests for the most part
[17:16] <cr3> ogasawara: when is <IP_ADDRESS> due?
[17:16] <cr3> ogasawara: in other words, should I be testing <IP_ADDRESS> asap?
[17:16] <ogasawara> cr3: <IP_ADDRESS> is already out - bug 297885
[17:16] <ogasawara> <IP_ADDRESS> is under review
[17:16] <heno> schwuk: he'll add a proposed flag in the submission data base; can you filter on that and make a proposed report?
[17:17] <schwuk> heno: as long as I can filter out the results we want, sure.
[17:17] <ogasawara> cr3: let me rephrase, <IP_ADDRESS> has been released upstream and we're still in the process of getting it through the SRU process
[17:18] <cr3> schwuk: it'll be a bit hacked for now until we find a better way, it's not very clear in my mind yet
[17:18] <heno> ogasawara: so you recommend that we test with .3 and .4 now and not wait for .5 .6 and .7 to land in proposed?
[17:18] <cr3> ogasawara: I mean, when is <IP_ADDRESS> due in -proposed?
[17:18] <cr3> ogasawara: nevermind, heno's question is better
[17:19] <ogasawara> cr3: yes, please test .3 and .4 which are in intrepid-proposed right now.  I think the plan is to get those through first before uploading .5, .6, and .7
[17:20] <heno> ok, thanks. we'll do that
[17:20] <heno> also, everyone is encouraged to enable proposed!
[17:20] <heno> [TOPIC] Jaunty Bug Lists
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Bug Lists
[17:21] <ogasawara> with a focus on fixing bugs for the Jaunty devel cycle, does anyone have any interest in us generating Jaunty bug lists?
[17:21] <ogasawara> for certain packages
[17:22] <sbeattie> ogasawara: similar to your kernel buglists?
[17:22] <ogasawara> we'd attempted something similar with the Hardy cycle by tagging bugs in launchpad but I'm unsure how successful it went
[17:22] <heno> and/or for certain teams?
[17:22] <ogasawara> sbeattie: I think maintaining it via launchpad would be better
[17:22] <heno> ogasawara: this may be a better point in the cycle to do it
[17:23] <heno> bdmurray suggested using package maintenance in LP as a guide
[17:24] <heno> we need to find some low-touch way of generating them, that does not involve hand-picking
[17:25] <heno> esp in areas we have no core expertise
[17:25] <heno> using the regressions list seems good, high subscriber count and comment count
[17:26] <heno> should we generate some lists automatically and then hand-sort from those?
[17:26] <ogasawara> so we really could just advertise use of the status pages since they contain that info?
[17:26] <bdmurray> We've talked about revisiting ones with a high or critical importance to ensure they are still relevant and looking at missed milestones.
[17:27] <bdmurray> not everything is listed on the status pages though
[17:27] <ogasawara> bdmurray: true
[17:27] <heno> I think a real list of bug numbers is useful
[17:28] <heno> we've talked about using a tag sop it could all be stored in LP
[17:28] <heno> qa-jaunty-list ?
[17:29] <bdmurray> Maybe we should see how many bugs there are in each specific area to get an idea of how many bugs we are talking about
[17:30] <ogasawara> bdmurray: that would be good.  that could also help measure the progress that gets made
[17:30] <heno> bdmurray: what do you mean by area in this case?
[17:31] <bdmurray> like 20 critical bugs in Ubuntu, 500 high bugs, 100 bugs that are targetted for later ....
[17:32] <heno> bdmurray: ok
[17:32] <bdmurray> then we can determine which lists need some refining
[17:33] <heno> bdmurray: can you collect that and then work with ogasawara to create some preliminary lists?
[17:33] <bdmurray> yes
[17:34] <heno> fwiw I have another conf call about this on Friday 17.30 UTC
[17:34] <heno> bdmurray: please join me on that if you're around
[17:35] <heno> great, moving on
[17:35] <heno> any other business?
[17:35] <heno> NCommander: ^
[17:35] <NCommander> I wanted to ask the QA team on the possibility of released Xfce 4.4.3 via updates to Intrepid and Hardy
[17:36] <NCommander> (the current release is 4.4.2 on both)
[17:36] <heno> so that would be an SRU - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[17:37] <heno> we are not really the gatekeepers for that
[17:37] <cody-somerville> Yea
[17:37] <cody-somerville> I decide that
[17:37] <heno> and the archive admin / release teams :)
[17:38] <heno> oh, sorry it's in universe now
[17:38] <heno> cody-somerville: are you on the motu-sru team?
[17:39] <cody-somerville> Yes.
[17:39] <cody-somerville> And I'm the Xubuntu project lead.
[17:40] <heno> indeed
[17:40] <heno> NCommander: so there is your answer :)
[17:40] <NCommander> Cody wanted me to run this by the QA team
[17:40]  * NCommander nods
[17:41] <heno> we can help give it a test from proposed of course
[17:41] <heno> any other other business?
[17:41] <bdmurray> What is the difference between 4.4.3 and 4.4.2?  Is it primarily a bug fix release?
[17:41] <james_w> I have something I would like to discuss
[17:42] <heno> james_w: go ahead
[17:43] <james_w> specifically QA of packages that are in Ubuntu but not in Debian
[17:43] <heno> bughelper, checkbox, what else?
[17:43] <schwuk> heno: was just thinking of checkbox :)
[17:43] <heno> apport counts I guess
[17:43] <james_w> we have around 800 packages in universe that are not in Debian, and we don't have the QA we get from packages maintained in Debian.
[17:43] <bdmurray> python-launchpad-bugs ;)
[17:44] <heno> ah, QA _of_ packages
[17:44] <bdmurray> james_w: is that list available somewhere?
[17:44] <heno> sorry, misread that
[17:45] <james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/74424/
[17:45] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/74424/
[17:45] <schwuk> james_w: is there an effort to get those packages into Debian, or is that what you're wanting to discuss?
[17:45] <james_w> there is not much effort, and that would be one good thing to happen
[17:46] <james_w> getting 800 packages in to Debian is not going to be a quick thing though, so I would like to discuss what to do in the meantime
[17:46] <NCommander> bdmurray, yes, its a bug fix release (there was one new feature added to xfwm4 however)
[17:47] <james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/74425/
[17:47] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/74425/
[17:47] <james_w> that's the number of open bugs per package
[17:47] <james_w> and the number of people that subscribe to the bug mail of each package
[17:48] <james_w> so there are not that many bugs reported against these packages
[17:48] <heno> james_w: what sort of QA is needed in your view? testing, triage, lintian/piuparts?
[17:48] <james_w> that's really my question.
[17:48] <heno> a bug day to look into the state of them further perhaps?
[17:49] <james_w> We don't have much visibility in to the quality of these packages, so in the QA team's opinion what would be the most valuable and worthwhile things to do to make sure that we are not shipping bad packages from this set
[17:49] <schwuk> heno: Isn't 800 a lot for a single day?
[17:49] <sbeattie> james_w: hrm, as a process thing going forward, I wonder if the submitter of the package should be auto-subscribed to that package's bugs, as a "you added it, you get to maintain it"
[17:49] <james_w> heno: yes, a bug day for the un-triaged open bugs would be a good idea I think
[17:49] <james_w> sbeattie: yes, I would advocate that policy, I don't know if it is possible to do it automatically.
[17:50] <james_w> sbeattie: when I sponsor a new package I immediately point the submitter to the package page with a hint that they should subscribe
[17:51] <heno> schwuk: looks like less than 800 bugs to me
[17:52] <heno> the package with 82 bugs is worth looking at though :)
[17:52] <bdmurray> james_w: couldn't some of these be removed off the list like python-launchpadlib ...
[17:52] <sbeattie> james_w: something else that may be of interest: correlating the packages with popcon numbers
[17:53] <james_w> sbeattie: that would be yes
[17:53] <schwuk> heno: I was referring to the package count, the bug count is a lot lower :)
[17:53] <james_w> bdmurray: well, that one is superbly maintained :-)
[17:53] <bdmurray> I think there are some others like that too.
[17:54] <heno> schwuk: right, but we can get a machine to list just the bugs ;)
[17:54] <james_w> I'm happy to keep toying with this to see what I can find, and I'll keep you posted on the results.
[17:54] <james_w> I think a bug day is a good idea though, so I can help to set it up if it is desired
[17:55] <heno> james_w: are you happy to put together a bug day list with help from people here?
[17:55] <bdmurray> james_w: What action would we take if there is an important bug and no subscribers to the bug reports?
[17:56] <heno> assign whoever touched it last :)
[17:56] <james_w> bdmurray: good question. Add it to a list of targets I guess, do we have such a thing?
[17:56] <bdmurray> that contradicts the assignment should be taken not given policy
[17:57] <james_w> we could make it RC and then try and encourage more use of RC in universe
[17:57] <heno> very true
[17:57] <bdmurray> james_w: and then if not fixed have package removed?
[17:57] <james_w> bdmurray: if the bug is serious enough
[17:57] <heno> debian style RC policy, interesting
[17:58] <james_w> RC with no milestone if not, so that it is flagged as a "target of opportunity"
[17:58] <heno> right, let's start with a bug day on this
[17:59] <heno> anything else (in 2 min)?
[17:59] <bdmurray> james_w: do you mean release targetted with no milestone?
[17:59] <davmor2> I need to sod off now.  So I'll try and get some testing in tomorrow night when I get home.  I'll be around all day friday to get some in.  TTYL
[17:59] <james_w> I'm also toying with the idea of subscribing ~motu to all the packages, bar a few, so that bugs get sent to the mailing list, but I'm not sure that's a good idea.
[17:59] <james_w> bdmurray: yes, sorry.
[17:59] <james_w> thanks for your time
[18:00] <heno> #endmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:00.
[18:00] <heno> thanks everyone!
[18:00] <cr3> cheerio
[18:00] <schwuk> thanks heno