[05:23] <pitti> Good morning
[06:08] <alkisg> Hi, I'm upstream for an app in universe + in debian. My app is translated in launchpad. When is my translations deadline? DebianImportFreeze? NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline?
[06:26] <slangasek> alkisg: NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline is the deadline by which translations should be finished, but if you're planning to incorporate those translations into a new upstream release, you need to be mindful of the feature freeze
[06:28] <slangasek> and having a no-new-features upstream release that meets the freeze criteria *available* is no guarantee that anyone will have a chance to upload it in time
[06:28] <alkisg> slangasek: thank you, so, without me doing any new upstream releases, new language translations can still be added after feature freeze, right?
[06:28] <slangasek> they can, sure
[06:28] <alkisg> (the app is new so it's only been translated to 7 languages so far, and I want to send a call for translators)
[06:29] <alkisg> Thanks!
[07:03] <slangasek> apw: heh - I think I'll remove the lpia-linux-restricted-modules source from the archive now
[07:48] <dholbach> good morning
[07:49] <SpamapS> dholbach: buenos dias
[07:50] <dholbach> hey SpamapS
[08:20] <\sh> dholbach: happy birthday :)
[08:20] <dholbach> thanks \sh :)
[08:21] <nigelb> ooh
[08:21] <nigelb> HAPPY BIRTHDAY dholbach!
[08:21] <dholbach> thanks :)
[09:08] <dholbach> can new packages also be synced with the syncpackage now?
[09:08] <seb128> dholbach, hey, how are you?
[09:09] <dholbach> hey seb128
[09:09] <seb128> dholbach, guess they could but you will hit NEW, it might be easier for archive admins to sync and new
[09:09] <seb128> dholbach, if that's custom uploads it's harder to make sure the version was synced from debian and not a custom uploads with a -1 I guess?
[09:10] <seb128> though I'm not sure
[09:10] <dholbach> seb128, for other syncs I got an email, for NEW packages I didn't
[09:10] <seb128> I would tend to want to review stuff others uploaded where I'm fine directly NEWing archive syncs
[09:10] <dholbach> but the 2 newest entries on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue are the ones I synced
[09:10] <seb128> dholbach, right, make sense
[09:10] <seb128> new sources go to the new queue
[09:11] <dholbach> I just asked because I didn't get an email :)
[09:11] <seb128> dholbach, oh ok
[09:12] <seb128> well imho we should still discuss if new sources should be synced this way, it might make NEWing harder
[09:13] <seb128> but I might be overlooking an easy way to confirm that those are actual syncs to discard versions screwups (i.e somebody who uploads a source to ubuntu using -1 by error, those should be reviewed, where we usually don't review stuff from Debian)
[09:13] <dholbach> hm
[09:46] <cjwatson> seb128: it doesn't make NEWing harder - you can tell that they're actual syncs because queue says "X-" in the type column for them, and they're annotated in some way in the web UI too
[09:47] <cjwatson> IMO there's no reason why people shouldn't sync new packages with syncpackage
[09:48] <cjwatson> usually I check with rmadison that it matches the version in Debian but that's about t
[09:48] <cjwatson> *it
[09:48] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, works for me, I was unsure if it was easy to say what was synced from debian
[09:48] <cjwatson> oh, and in fact the web UI even says that it's synced from Debian
[09:49] <cjwatson> look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue and use the expanders on the top two entries
[09:49] <seb128> "Sync from Primary Archive for Debian GNU/Linux", indeed
[09:49] <seb128> nice
[09:49] <cjwatson> if anything it's easier to process NEW sources this way :)
[09:50] <seb128> ;-)
[11:45] <jamespage> iamfuzz: around? wanted to discuss reverting groovy back to 1.8.x series
[13:36] <danger89> Hi
[13:36] <danger89> We developed your own deb & ppa for Ubuntu
[13:37] <danger89> namely Bumblebee
[13:38] <astraljava> cjwatson: Hiya, I'm about to start working on the Studio live-dvd. I noticed you had a word with Scott about it, but since he's awfully busy, I thought I could test the wind beneath my wings. :)
[13:38] <danger89> however the user still needs to manually add there own username to the bumblebee group. This is because the installation runs at root. Has anyone any idea how to fix the installer to add the current user automatic to the bumblebee group?
[13:40] <Lekensteyn> in addition to what danger89 has said, we're granting write permissions to a socket for a specific group to give a sense of security
[13:42] <stokachu> danger89, Lekensteyn : you  may get a better response in #ubuntu-app-devel
[13:42] <danger89> stokachu: ok thanks
[13:43] <stokachu> danger89, no problem
[13:54] <apw> a dist-upgrade wants to remove gdm-guest-session, is that right or wrong
[13:57] <dholbach> apw, gdm-guest-session is safe to go - I don't have it installed either and it's removed from the archive
[13:58] <apw> dholbach, thanks ... /me hits return
[14:28] <pitti> cking: hey Colin, how are you?
[14:29] <cking> pitti, doing fine thanks!
[14:29] <pitti> cking: FYI I stacked most of the rest of pm-utils cleanup in debian git now, we'll do an upload soon
[14:29] <pitti> cking: there's one remaining thing
[14:29] <cking> ..what's that?
[14:29] <pitti> cking: the sata_alpm hook is currently disabled by default
[14:29] <pitti> cking: seems our bug reports are from 2009, and your recent crowd sourcing looked promising
[14:30] <pitti> cking: I'm interested in whether there were recent kernel developments which might make this safe(r) to enable by default?
[14:30] <cking> pitti, well, I'm not 100% sure it is safe, so let's keep it disabled for now
[14:30] <pitti> it WFM, but I have an X201 which is generally well supported
[14:31] <pitti> I never had a problem in 2009 either, so I'm a bad test case
[14:31] <pitti> cking: ack
[14:31] <cking> pitti, I'm going to construct a USB live image that can do read tests on H/W so we can identify hardware where it fails w/o killing users data
[14:32] <cking> but I suspect this is a longer term test for P+1 now
[14:33] <cking> pitti, thanks for sorting out the pm-utils changes for me, much appreciated :-)
[14:33] <pitti> no worries :)
[14:34] <diwic> is it possible to upgrade from 11.04 to 12.04? I'm running "update-manager -d" but only 11.10 comes up.
[14:40] <pitti> diwic: you need to upgrade through 11.10 first indeed; although it should work (sudo apt-get dist-upgrade), it hasn't really been tested
[14:41] <diwic> pitti, well, since it hasn't been tested, I figured it would be an interesting test case to file bug against
[14:42] <pitti> diwic: indeed; it won't be officially supported, but most of what breaks should also affect lucid->precise
[14:43] <diwic> pitti, hmm, ok, but if nobody is going to care about the possible bugs anyway it would be stupid to throw oneself in there
[14:43] <pitti> diwic: no, I meant that anything you run into will most likely be a real bug for upgrades from lucid
[14:43] <pitti> so it actually does sound useful
[14:44] <pitti> if apt-get dist-upgrade proposes to remove half of your desktop, you should not start it, though :)
[14:45] <cjwatson> astraljava: OK; maybe if you sketch out how you think the seeds ought to look in a branch, perhaps using the Edubuntu seeds as a general reference, and I can look over it?
[14:45] <cjwatson> astraljava: do you have a clear specification of how you want the resulting image to behave in terms of what should be available in a live session and what should be available after installation?
[14:48] <diwic> pitti, hmm, I guess that isn't enough: "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" or "sudo apt-get -t precise dist-upgrade" just says the system is updated
[14:48] <pitti> diwic: you need to change /etc/apt/sources.list from "natty" to "precise" first, sorry
[14:48] <diwic> pitti, ah, assumed something like that
[14:51] <diwic> hmm, looks not too unsafe (44 to remove)
[14:52] <pitti> diwic: paste?
[14:52] <astraljava> cjwatson: We're in the early stages so far, but as you suggested, I will start to go over the Edubuntu seed now. Is it okay if I ping you again when I have it in some coherent form?
[14:52] <diwic> pitti, too late
[14:52] <diwic> It's not an installation I care that dearly about anyway
[14:52] <astraljava> cjwatson: I'm not sure about the behavior, I'll talk to Scott about it, I guess.
[14:53] <diwic> some indicators and some python related stuff
[14:54] <pitti> diwic: these might be genuine cleanup indeed; there's a rather large GTK3/GIR transition involved
[14:54] <diwic> pitti, yeah I thought so too
[14:55] <cjwatson> astraljava: sure ... it's just probably more efficient if you have slightly more specific questions, since giving you complete directions might more or less amount to doing the work :-)
[14:56] <cjwatson> astraljava: definitely having a clear spec of what packages are present in live vs. installed system will be useful, though
[14:56] <astraljava> cjwatson: Yeah I understand that. :) I was just needing a direction, really. But you've given me that, so I'll go with that now.
[14:56] <cjwatson> astraljava: (they're bound to be different in some way; for example the installer itself should not be present in the installed system)
[14:57] <astraljava> cjwatson: Good point. Ok, I'll compile such a list as well. Thanks for now!
[15:12] <cking> pitti, should I report apps that wakeup frequently to the ubuntu power consumption project even if I'm not sure if wakeups are a feature and not a bug of the software?
[15:14] <pitti> cking: I think reporting can't hurt, we can analyze it on the bug report then and set as invalid if appropriate
[15:14] <cking> pitti, ack
[15:14] <pitti> cking: btw, I added u-p-c tags to your recent bugs, to have them all under one roof
[15:15] <cking> ok - I will remember to tag them appropriately in future
[15:16] <pitti> cking: s/tag/add affected project/
[15:16] <pitti> cking: right, I meant to say "tasks", not "tags", duh
[15:16] <cking> ah, OK :-)
[15:16] <pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-power-consumption/+bugs
[15:17] <cking> pitti, I added 917156 to that list :-(
[15:18]  * cking notes its like whack-a-mole
[15:18] <pitti> cking: ah, we don't even install that by default any more
[15:18] <pitti> but it's an issue of course
[16:42] <cjwatson> barry: well, first run of python3 porting seems pretty successful - I think I have a functional python3-germinate now
[16:42] <cjwatson> barry: not that that was anywhere on your list ;-)
[16:42] <cjwatson> (easier to start with something I maintain for practice purposes, though)
[16:43] <barry> cjwatson: nice!  btw, i'm going through your email now, though about to take a lunch break.  thanks for the feedback.  one of the tricky bits (and why there was some asymmetry b/w the py2 and py3 versions) was that for py3, we can install the debug .so's right next to the production .so's, whereas for py2 we can't
[16:44] <barry> cjwatson: the branch head probably had more churn in it than necessary, so apologies for that.
[16:50] <cjwatson> barry: ok - if I've got any of the layout wrong, I'm guessing it might be easier to fix it with the approach I took, anyway :)
[16:50] <barry> cjwatson: :)
[16:56] <ScottK> barry: ping re python-dbus recomments python-gobject.  This pulls python-gobject and a stack of other things into the Kubuntu seeds that aren't otherwise needed.  Do you think it could be dropped?
[16:56] <ScottK> ... recommeds ...
[16:57] <ScottK> Sigh.  Can't type today.  Anyway ...
[17:24] <jtaylor> doko_: can you remove the argparse provide from python-defaults, it breaks builds bug 916188
[18:17] <tumbleweed> can a moderator please let my ubuntu-devel-announce mail through
[18:58] <achiang> does anyone know why precise libqt4 is built without phonon? (just curious)
[18:59] <debfx> achiang: phonon is built from its own source package
[18:59] <achiang> debfx: ah, thx
[20:42] <broder> lifeless: i'm confused about your closure of bug #612391. were you talking about re-targeting merge proposals? because i suspect that will only exacerbate one of the other major issues with SRU MPs, which is that you can't open a MP against foo-proposed when that package hasn't already been SRU'd
[20:43] <broder> (possibly also if the SRU has already been moved into -updates - i'm not sure)
[20:45] <lifeless> broder: it looks to me like there are no code changes in LP needed for that specific bug; there are other bugs in the area, that is true.
[20:46] <lifeless> broder: the -proposed thing having no branches seems like an operational issue as much as anything else - sure, we could do something fancy and have fake branches, but really the udd importer could instantiate sru branches matching the release, shortly after the release.
[20:46] <broder> ah, i see. you're suggesting a script to go and mangle the MPs that runs as the branch importer or something?
[20:56] <haraldj> Hello, any SRU members online?
[21:03] <haraldj> I'm currently facing requests for package upgrades in stable Ubuntu releases...
[21:05] <lifeless> broder: handwave, yes :)
[21:05] <broder> lifeless: ok. i guess the importer is considered to be a separate project from lp itself? i'll go open a new bugtask so we don't lose the bug
[21:06] <lifeless> broder: you could add a task if you like; 'udd' is the project
[21:07] <lifeless> broder: lp is a bit drowned in bugs atm; I'm trying to make sure that the bugs are a) really code bugs (or at a pinch operational things which someone in the LP team needs to look at) and b) not dups, not stale etc
[21:07]  * broder nods
[21:10] <tumbleweed> haraldj: generally minimal patches are preferred for SRUs, excepting patckages which maintain stable releases and have recevied "micro release exceptions" in Ubuntu
[21:11] <haraldj> Well that may be a problem...
[21:11] <haraldj> tumbleweed: the package in Hardy is really old...
[21:12] <tumbleweed> hardy is really old, that's to be expected :)
[21:13] <tumbleweed> we really don't want to cause regressions in SRUs. Usually new versions are backported only when the package is totally broken
[21:13] <haraldj> tumbleweed: Ok that's true but the problem is that even Debian Lenny has a younger version - and this version is even deprecated by upstream
[21:13] <haraldj> Absolutely understandable
[21:14] <haraldj> I do work on the Debian package since 22 months and released two weeks ago a security update
[21:14]  * tumbleweed isn't on the SRU or security team, so I can't give you their views
[21:15] <haraldj> clear but there are currently 4 open CVEs for Hardy and at least 2 other bugs (more or less critical)
[21:18] <haraldj> Maybe anybody of the release or security team is online?
[21:18]  * tumbleweed is on the release team
[21:18] <haraldj> Sorry meant the SRU
[21:20] <haraldj> I'm somewhat concerned about the state of the package... as openswan is a security package there needs to be taken extra care of it
[21:20] <tumbleweed> security team have an IRC channel (#ubuntu-security, IIRC) and also see bugs marked as security issues. Otherwise just lurk until someone turns up :)
[21:21] <haraldj> Hmmm well I would prefer to talk to one member of SRU and one of security at the same time so we could find the best solution for the issues of security and usability
[21:21] <tumbleweed> seems pretty head here now. Maybe in the (UTC) morning...
[21:22] <haraldj> Ok will try tomorrow morning then :-)
[21:23] <haraldj> Wish you a nice evening/good night and thanks for your help
[21:24] <tumbleweed> np
[21:24] <haraldj> :-) bye


[00:00] <gkahla> hey folks - running 7.10 xubuntu, and was curious; how do I change the app that gets launched when I put an audio CD in my PC?
[00:00] <gkahla> can't find anything under "Preferred Applications"
[00:08] <ron_o> try File Manager Preference >> Advanced >> configure
[00:09] <ron_o> gkahla, then multimedia
[00:09] <gkahla> ron_o-  you are correct, sir!
[00:10] <gkahla> that's where it was...
[00:10] <gkahla> thanks! I owe you a beer
[00:10] <ron_o> a 60 Minute DogFish Head will do just fine.:)
[00:11] <gkahla> that's a new one on me, but for sure - thanks again!
[00:12] <Stroganoff> Three Floyds Oak Aged Dark Lord Russian Imperial Stout is way better!!11
[00:19] <gkahla> wow - that's an impressive name for a brew. Can't say I've tried that one either...
[00:20] <gkahla> ron_o, Stroganoff - I've confirmed the new config works great! thanks again - later!
[00:21] <Stroganoff> useless highlight ftw ^^
[00:21] <ron_o> Stroganoff, sounds like a very rich beer to me.
[00:21] <ron_o> sometimes richness isn't necessarily better.
[00:21] <ron_o> and I'm not a big stout drinker either. :)
[00:22] <Stroganoff> then how about Westvleteren Abt 12?
[00:22] <ron_o> nahh.. I just drink DogFish Head.
[00:23] <ron_o> why change when you're satisfied?
[00:23] <ron_o> plus, it's a local brewery. I can always get it at a good cost.
[00:24] <ron_o> I just had this: http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Occasional_Rarities/Palo_Santo_Marron/51/index.htm
[00:25] <ron_o> I didn't really like it all that much. It was OK. Great I'd say for just 12%abv.. you could barely taste the alcohol..
[00:25] <Stroganoff> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/3/36/Sternburg_Export.jpg
[00:25] <Stroganoff> nuff said
[00:25] <ron_o> however, I didn't taste any vanilla or caramel like many said. My palate maybe isn't that sensitive.
[00:26] <ron_o> but it usually takes like 12 beers or more (at different stages and times) to really taste the finer ingredients of beer.
[00:26] <Stroganoff> i'm allergic to gluten so i almost forgot the taste of beer, sorry :))
[00:26] <ron_o> :)
[00:26] <ron_o> sorry to hear.
[00:27] <ron_o> Palo Santo Marron, even though it's described as a 'brown ale' I liken it to a stout.. it's dark, but not frothy like a lot of better stouts.
[00:27] <Stroganoff> i was just quoting http://www.ratebeer.com/Ratings/Ratings-Top50.asp
[00:28] <ron_o> ahh, :)
[00:28] <ron_o> those ratings can be helpful, but me thinks they are mostly BS. complex beers can ruin a good night for the average drinke.
[00:28] <ron_o> drinker*
[00:35] <ron_o> BTW, I'm sure there are gluten free beers out there.
[00:45] <Stroganoff> there are
[00:47] <Stroganoff> but naturally quite expensive
[00:48] <Stroganoff> not free as in beer HAHAHA
[00:48] <Stroganoff> oh wow
[01:43] <xthegoat121x> Evening all
[02:05] <sugaryeti> Good evening
[02:41] <Entrop1> Hello
[02:41] <Entrop1> What is the difference between xubuntu and regular ubuntu
[02:41] <Entrop1> ???
[02:43] <Entrop1> Hello there?
[02:43] <Entrop1> eteran
[02:43] <Entrop1> Dissentor
[02:43] <Entrop1> Anyone there?
[02:44] <Stroganoff> nope
[02:44] <Stroganoff> ubuntu uses gnome
[02:44] <Stroganoff> xubuntu uses xfce
[02:44] <Stroganoff> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu
[02:44] <Entrop1> Thanks much
[02:45] <Entrop1> ah, so xubuntu is for older computers/better performance on faster computers, right?
[02:45] <Stroganoff> yes
[02:45] <Entrop1> OK then, that solves that. Thanks
[08:39] <Abominus69> Hello, can anyone help me with connecting a Windows PC to my Xubuntu PC please?
[08:55] <Abominus69> Nevermind.  Just worked it out.
[11:28] <gynterk> my xserver-xorg hates me
[11:28] <gynterk> ATI Radeon Xpress 200M
[11:28] <gynterk> latest xubuntu
[11:28] <gynterk> can't get fglrx working
[12:48] <horry> hello, everyone.
[12:49] <ere4si> !hi
[12:49] <ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #xubuntu!
[12:50] <horry> I'm a rookie for linux. But really interesting in it.
[12:50] <horry> Now I installed xubuntu. I like it very much.
[12:51] <ere4si> horry, great :)
[12:52] <ere4si> horry, if you have an issue just ask :)
[12:54] <horry> ere4si, I have one issue.
[12:54] <ere4si> k
[12:54] <horry> I can't make my FF support flash in 64bit version.
[12:54] <horry> But 32bit version can do that.
[12:57] <ere4si> horry, a 64bit os needs apps written for it - maybe adobe has a 64bit flash ready - I don't know - sorry
[12:57] <TheSheep> I don't think it does
[12:57] <Stroganoff> it has not
[12:58] <horry> adobe have not a 64bit one.
[12:58] <predaeus> horry, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash#amd64andppc for info.
[12:59] <predaeus> hm it states that for Gutsy it should work with "sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree"
[12:59] <ere4si> horry, until more people use 64bit apps won't be written for it- until apps are written for 64bit people won't use it...
[13:01] <horry> my 64bit version could play youtube, but can't play youku which like youtube need flash9.
[13:01] <maxamillion> you can get flash to work on 64-bit with a wrapper for the plugin
[13:02] <eifzon> Is there any program to change the icons?
[13:02] <ere4si> horry,  it might need the shockwave flash plugin
[13:02] <maxamillion> eifzon: its in the preferences control panel
[13:02] <eifzon> maxamillion: I dont use xubuntu tho :P
[13:02] <horry> ere4si, how to install it?
[13:02] <TheSheep> eifzon: you can select your icon theme in settings->user interface settings
[13:03] <eifzon> TheSheep: is there a command for it in terminal?
[13:03] <TheSheep> eifzon: xfce-setting-show ui
[13:03] <eifzon> is that name of the program to dl?
[13:04] <ere4si> horry, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:7 - and scroll down for it
[13:04] <TheSheep> eifzon: dl?
[13:04] <eifzon> TheSheep: download
[13:04] <maxamillion> eifzon: i don't either
[13:04] <TheSheep> eifzon: no, that's the command to bring up the user interface settings dialog of xfce
[13:04] <eifzon> TheSheep: I dont got that command
[13:05] <TheSheep> eifzon: then your xubuntu install is broken
[13:05] <eifzon> I dont use xubuntu :P
[13:05] <eifzon> just asked here cause xfce was dead
[13:05] <ere4si> TheSheep, he doesn't use xubuntu
[13:05] <TheSheep> eifzon: then you should ask on the support channel of whatever distribution you're using, they might be much better informed
[13:05] <eifzon> TheSheep: its still the same programs
[13:06] <TheSheep> eifzon: apparently not
[13:06] <eifzon> but I have to download it to
[13:06] <Stroganoff> what distribution do you use?
[13:06] <eifzon> arch
[13:07] <Stroganoff> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xfce#Commands_for_the_settings_manager
[13:07] <Stroganoff> you're doing it wrong
[13:07] <maxamillion> Stroganoff: i use debian, fedora, centOS, arch, and sidux ... depending on what machine i am sitting infront of
[13:08] <eifzon> doing what wrong
[13:08] <horry> Who is using Skype?
[13:09] <maxamillion> actually i wiped arch off that one machine .... so 86 that one
[13:09] <eifzon> Stroganoff: how can I install just that package
[13:09] <ere4si> !skype
[13:09] <ubotu> To install Skype on Ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Skype - To record on Skype, check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeRecordingHowto
[13:10] <Stroganoff> eifzon, i suppose: pacman -S xfce4-mcs-manager
[13:11] <eifzon> yah it worked
[13:11] <eifzon> how do I change icon theme now?
[13:12] <Stroganoff> eifzon: xfce-setting-show ui
[13:12] <Stroganoff> "xfce-setting-show" alone should bring up the control panel
[13:12] <eifzon> Xfce Settings Manager error: No such plugin "ui"
[13:15] <Stroganoff> and just "xfce-setting-show"?
[13:15] <Stroganoff> what happens?
[13:15] <eifzon> that works
[13:15] <eifzon> a menu to choose what browser mail etc
[13:15] <eifzon> terminal
[13:15] <TheSheep> sigh, you need to install the mcs-plugins too
[13:15] <Stroganoff> http://archlinux.org/packages/
[13:15] <eifzon> name of it?
[13:16] <Stroganoff> if only i knew ^^
[13:16] <Stroganoff> pacman -S xfce-mcs-plugins
[13:16] <Stroganoff> thats it
[13:16] <Stroganoff> maybe i should start using arch myself ;)
[13:16] <maxamillion> just kind of a side note, this is not #archlinux
[13:17] <eifzon> Stroganoff: arch pwn
[13:17] <ere4si> or arch users should ask in #arch
[13:17] <eifzon> btw same error Stroganoff
[13:17] <eifzon> do I need the svn to
[13:18] <ere4si> !topic > eifzon
[13:18] <Stroganoff> eifzon lets continue in the other channel
[13:18] <eifzon> ok
[13:20] <maxamillion> thank you
[13:20] <maxamillion> brb
[13:30] <maxamillion> back
[14:01] <ere4si> well then...
[14:01] <SubOne> I have a really slow computer that had Windows 98 on it. I installed Windows XP because the hardware support was incomplete and the OS was destroyed by someone randomly deleting stuff. Windows XP supports the hardware better, but is slower and of course it is very insecure. I installed Xubuntu, but it is at least 10 times as slow as Windows XP. What steps can I take to remedy this?
[14:02] <ere4si> xchat was giving a beep for every letter typed - so I rebooted
[14:02] <SubOne> And also whenever I go to Terminal it logs me off
[14:03] <ere4si> SubOne: what is the hardware?
[14:04] <SubOne> It is a Compaq Presario 5834 with 64mb ram, (1mb shared video?) and around 500mhz
[14:06] <SubOne> first thing it does is load for 10 mins and then it settles into an update manager that sits there and does nothing
[14:07] <SubOne> as far as i can tell i have the correct video driver
[14:09] <ere4si> SubOne: you may need the alternate cd - you don't have the memory for the live cd
[14:09] <SubOne> i have already installed from the alt cd
[14:09] <SubOne> this is not an installation issue it is already installed
[14:09] <SubOne> but it is uber slow
[14:09] <SubOne> and i dot see why
[14:10] <ere4si> 64mb memory SubOne
[14:11] <SubOne> and? you are telling me that Xubuntu cannot outperform Windows 98 under these circumstances?
[14:11] <SubOne> or even windows xp? windows xp is at least 10 times faster than that
[14:11] <SubOne> that this*
[14:11] <SubOne> than* this lol
[14:13] <SubOne> ok well lets take this a step at a time
[14:13] <ere4si> xp "from the m$ site needs 512mb ram"
[14:14] <SubOne> are you telling me i am lying?
[14:14] <ere4si> yep
[14:14] <SubOne> windows xp runs fine on this machine
[14:14] <ere4si> and..
[14:14] <SubOne> i dont care what the website says
[14:15] <ere4si> reality
[14:15] <SubOne> wow...
[14:15] <ere4si> have a look
[14:15] <SubOne> i cannot believe i am recieving this level of ignorance in this channel
[14:16] <ere4si> 64mb and complaining is ignorance
[14:16] <SubOne> apparently you are the room goat so i will commence ignoring you
[14:16] <SubOne> anyone else that is awake i welcome your suggestions
[14:17] <SubOne> and I have a resource summary report in pdf format that Windows XP has provided me (for hardware specs)
[14:21] <ere4si> hows' ignoring me going SubOne  - 64mb is very limited these days - google it - I wasn't trying anything but honesty
[14:22] <SubOne> no you are calling me a liar and i do not take that well
[14:22] <SubOne> anyone that is interested in helping me, here are the specs per windows XP: http://pastebin.com/m401b972b
[14:25] <ere4si> SubOne: if xp works for you on that system you are lucky and I congratulate you and wish you equal luck in the future
[14:26] <SubOne> ere4si: are you the newbie in the room or what? What don't you understand about I prefer *buntu
[14:26] <SubOne> i refuse to believe that Windows XP can perform better than Xubuntu
[14:27] <ere4si> SubOne: you are right - I agree that you are right  - you need not consider my comments anymore - sorry
[14:27] <SubOne> You may now be assured that the moment you called me a liar I ceased to consider your opinions.
[14:28] <ere4si> why respond then?
[14:28] <SubOne> Because I am civil.
[14:28] <SubOne> "Ignoring you" should be read "ignoring your opinions"
[14:29] <ere4si> and I appreciate that SubOne - pls read the ms site for min xp specs
[14:30] <SubOne> ere4si: Apperently you cannot read very well.
[14:30] <SubOne> "128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)"
[14:30] <SubOne> "PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233 MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended"
[14:30] <SubOne> My system meets these requirements.
[14:31] <SubOne> And Windows XP runs just fine with select services turned off including Themes
[14:32] <ere4si> SubOne: again - you're right - I am wrong - you win - pls move to a new topic
[14:32] <SubOne> I chose not to move to a new topic. My topic is and always has been getting Xubuntu to run more efficiently on this machine.
[14:33] <SubOne> hi
[14:35] <ere4si> SubOne: you can control services that run with the app   sysvrc-rc-conf    that is available in the repos
[14:35] <SubOne> First thing first, I need to determine why running a terminal logs me out and/or crashes X
[14:36] <SubOne> And why Update Manager just hangs
[14:37] <ere4si> SubOne: off hand I can't say - /var/log  may tell something...
[15:05] <SubOne> Anyone that can help me solve this slow Xubuntu issue may view the details and post a reply here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4539028#post4539028
[15:07] <ere4si> SubOne:  from that thread - edit: opps, missed the part about 64meg of RAM, that might do it as Xubuntu wants at least 128
[15:09] <SubOne> That is discouraging that Xubuntu cannot outperform Windows XP in ANY case.
[15:11] <vidd> imo xubuntu outpreforms windows xp EVERY time
[15:11] <SubOne> vidd: than perhaps you could post your opinion of my situation here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4539083&posted=1#post4539083
[15:12] <ere4si> SubOne: I feel for you - the only xp I could get running on 64mb ram was micro xp - it couldn't even change wallpapers...
[15:13] <SubOne> ere4si: I feel your pain, however, I have no input as to why Windows XP runs so smoothly on this machine, but it does.
[15:14] <ere4si> SubOne: if you don't print - turn off cups etc - will improve performance on such an underpowered machine
[15:16] <SubOne> ere4si: where would i find that
[15:16] <ere4si> SubOne: I use the server install with fluxbox as window manager and minimal apps - still uses 50_mbs
[15:17] <ere4si> with nothing running
[15:17] <ere4si> *50+mb
[15:23]  * SubOne is attempting to cannabilize another machine for parts
[15:29] <redline135> SubOne: It seems in this instance that xp will run better than xubuntu ( Even though I hate to say it ) Xubuntu's own site says " Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM".
[15:37] <vidd> you need to have more ram
[15:38] <vidd> good thing you have all that hd space on that machine....gives xp all that swap space to crawl to life
[15:38] <vidd> give xubuntu 20 gig of swap and it might boot too
[15:39] <vidd> sorry...10 gig swap
[15:39] <vidd> thats what you have available to xp
[15:40] <redline135> ha! @vidd true  -  I think in this case its all about the memory. The more the better.  The last time I had a box with 64 MB it was on a P166 with win 98 ( shutter )..
[15:44] <SubOne> the swap file on XP is only 256mb
[15:45] <vidd> windows uses all free hard drive space as swap
[15:45] <SubOne> that is not true, where did you hear this?
[15:46] <vidd> from my microsoft certification cource
[15:47] <SubOne> well im afraid they taught you incorrectly
[15:47] <vidd> where did you hear that it doesnt use all avaiable hard drive space?
[15:48] <SubOne> by experience
[15:48] <SubOne> you can clearly set the page file minimum size, maximum size, location, and whether or not to use one at all, and the performance changes to confirm these manipulations
[15:49] <SubOne> for example on my laptop i dual boot with Windows XP and I have 2gb of ram and I use no paging at all
[15:51] <SubOne> there is a significant change in system speed when that change is made and all of the operating system is loaded into physical ram
[15:53] <SubOne> although I'm sure it is possible to use the whole hard drive if you so choose, but that would cause all sorts of issues
[15:54] <vidd> yes...and if there is only 64 MB of ram (half the recommendation for XP) then the windows kernel takes all available hard drive space and uses it as swap
[15:54] <SubOne> Show me proof of your claim.
[15:54] <vidd> that is one of the main reasons that windows needs to be defragged so often
[15:55] <vidd> it also explains why there is drastic speed increase with more ram....less swapping on the available hard drive space
[15:56] <vidd> Over time, as you add more stuff to an XP machine, you will notcie significant decrease in effeciency as the available swap space is taken up by stiored files, until such time there is no more swap available
[15:56] <SubOne> You are correct that more RAM will cause less page file usage in general, however this does not go to prove your theory.
[15:56] <vidd> tell you waht...you want proof?
[15:56] <SubOne> Yes please.
[15:57] <vidd> fill your hard drives up so there is only 1 gig of available hard drive space and watch xp fail to boot
[15:57] <TheSheep> !ot
[15:57] <ubotu> #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[15:58] <TheSheep> I've heard they are having fun on ##windows :)
[15:58] <SubOne> vidd: I have done that many times. It is not difficult to do so with such a small hdd
[15:58] <vidd> im done discussing it'
[15:58] <SubOne> TheSheep: you are welcome to respond to my query about Xubuntu if you like.
[15:59] <SubOne> vidd: please provide me with non-emperical proof of your claims.
[15:59] <TheSheep> SubOne: unfortunatelly it got scrolled out of my backlog because of your discussion about xp :)
[15:59] <SubOne> Anyone that can help me solve this slow Xubuntu issue may view the details and post a reply here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4539028#post4539028
[16:00] <vidd> ADD MORE RAM
[16:01] <SubOne> vidd: thank you but your opinion has already been heard and I am in the process of doing so
[16:01] <vidd> thats all you need to do
[16:01] <SubOne> brb
[16:01] <vidd> its not an opion, it is fact
[16:02] <vidd> your system does not meet the minimum requirements to run xubuntu
[16:02] <TheSheep> SubOne: slowness can be cause by low ram, the terminal crashing your x session is an old bug in the xfce4-terminal, you can work around it by setting your screen color depth to 16 bits (it will also save some ram)
[16:02] <redline135> Maybe go with fluxubuntu or as others stated in the thread that you posted DSL or Puppy?
[16:30] <SubOne> 128mb installed... booting to windows 98 for test before xubuntu install...
[16:31] <SubOne> er... 120mb... odd
[16:34] <vidd> is 128mb ram enough for xubuntu?
[16:35] <SubOne> some have said \yes some have said no
[16:36] <SubOne> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM."
[16:36] <SubOne> "The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM."
[16:36] <SubOne> confusing
[16:38] <vidd> the alt cd only needs 64 mb of ram because you can use it to install ubuntu-cli-only
[16:38] <SubOne> what is that?
[16:38] <vidd> if you have no desktop environment, you can run 64MB ram
[16:38] <SubOne> ah
[16:39] <SubOne> so then you recommend puppy linux?
[16:40] <vidd> i recomend more ram....i have used debian, suse, *buntu and fedora (for 15 minutes) so I have no experience with the ultra-light distros
[16:40] <maxamillion> SubOne: running puppy linux is not something i would suggest you run on a computer as its main OS ... puppy is a good liveCD but nothing more
[16:41] <maxamillion> SubOne: if you use a base install of debian and built it from the ground up, you can do it with 64mb of ram
[16:42] <SubOne> i have 120MB now
[16:43] <SubOne> what about damn small?
[16:52] <SubOne> i am attempting install of Xubuntu just for the hell of it and if it doesnt go well i will try DSL
[16:53] <vidd> I cannot recommend a micro distribution as I never used them
[16:56] <vidd> i should think (as maxamillion suggested) installing a cli-only debian and use aptitude to install a desktop would be better
[16:56] <vidd> but I dont know how comfortable you are with that
[17:04] <vidd> heh...im not sure how comfortable I would be with that!
[17:06] <SubOne> cli = command line only install ?
[17:11] <vidd> yes
[17:41] <SubOne> wtf the xubuntu cd was booting a minute ago now it gets to the "loaiding linux kernel" and reboots
[17:41] <SubOne> performing a memcheck
[17:42] <SubOne> how long does a xubuntu memtest last?
[17:49] <SubOne> wtf, even if i try to check cd for defects it reboots
[17:49] <SubOne> hmmm its intermittent
[18:34] <Askarii> ahh
[18:34] <Askarii> at last
[18:34] <Askarii> I would need help doing a fresh install of: Windows Vista, and Xubuntu.
[18:35] <Askarii> I've never done partitioning.
[18:42] <vidd> Askarii, is the windows already installed?
[18:46] <Askarii> it is atm
[18:46] <Askarii> but im doing a clean whipe
[18:46] <Askarii> so i'll be doing everything from scratch
[18:47] <zoredache> so install windows first, and when windows is installing you should be able to choose how much diskspace you want for it
[18:47] <Askarii> I wont have to partition as im installing windows?
[18:48] <zoredache> you do yes, but you don't have to create the linux partitions
[18:48] <Askarii> alright
[18:48] <zoredache> just create a single partition for window that is as big as you want it to be
[18:48] <Askarii> so basically I just begin my install, split my harddrive 50/50, finish installing vista, then install Xubuntu on the second partition and everything is fine?
[18:48] <zoredache> You will want at least 3-4GB for linux, maybe a lot more if you plan on using it
[18:48] <Askarii> I plan on using linux as my main OS
[18:49] <zoredache> yes, that sounds like what you want to do
[18:49] <Askarii> Is it possible for Vista and Xubunut partitions to communicate with each-other?
[18:49] <zoredache> yes, but it is tricky
[18:49] <vidd> actually...its easy
[18:49] <Askarii> okay, so its not automatic..
[18:49] <Askarii> hmm
[18:49] <Askarii> it would be practicle I think
[18:49] <zoredache> on the linux side you need to use something called ntfs3g, and on the windows you will need to install an ext3 driver
[18:50] <vidd> set up a partition during the linux install...set it to fat32 format and both can use it easily
[18:50] <Askarii> okay, so its not something I need to setup as I install, i can make it work even after both installs are done?
[18:50] <Askarii> yeh, are there chances i'll be running bigger then 4g files on xubuntu?
[18:50] <Askarii> i've never used linux before
[18:51] <zoredache> of course the problem I have with fat32 is that it you can't have files larger then 4GB which is horrible if you are ripping dvds, have large backups of computers, etc
[18:51] <Askarii> yeh..
[18:51] <Askarii> I don't rip dvd's though
[18:51] <Askarii> but i tend to back-up...
[18:51] <Askarii> which tends to take more then 1 dvd
[18:53] <Askarii> Has anyone ever encountered hardware problems while using Xubuntu?
[18:53] <zoredache> what do you mean by 'hardware problems'?
[18:53] <Askarii> drivers mostly, hardware not ebing recognized
[18:53] <zoredache> do you mean 'unsupported hardware', or ubuntu breaks something
[18:53] <zoredache> sure all the time
[18:53] <Askarii> whoa, "breaking something" ? is that possible?
[18:54] <Askarii> all the time :L
[18:54] <Askarii> is there a way to check out if xubuntu would recognized all my hardware before installation?
[18:54] <zoredache> well you'll have the same problems with pretty much any distro...  Your issues will probably be related to wifi, or accellerated graphics
[18:54] <vidd> run live cd
[18:57] <Askarii> wifi?
[18:58] <Askarii> i see
[18:58] <Askarii> well, thx for all the help :)
[18:58] <zoredache> wifi/wireless/802.11 a/b/g/n...
[18:58] <Askarii> yeh, I know...
[18:59] <Askarii> guess im off to hours of installations :D
[18:59] <Askarii> bye!
[19:12] <Askarii> One quick question before i start the installing process
[19:13] <Askarii> Vidd, zoredache
[19:13] <Askarii> still here?
[19:14] <vidd> yes
[19:14] <Askarii> ah great
[19:14] <Askarii> When it comes down to drivers
[19:14] <Askarii> to i need LINUX specific drivers for my hardware
[19:14] <Askarii> or is any driver good, independantly of the OS
[19:16] <vidd> depends on what the driver is for, and how your going to install it
[19:16] <vidd> but for the most part, the restricted drivers tool will fix them all up for you
[19:16] <Askarii> well say I boot off vista, and dl all my drivers from the dell website...
[19:16] <Askarii> is it going to be ok for linux or do i have to re-ionstal aswell?
[19:18] <vidd> you should not have to install anything....the restriced drivers tool will do all the hard work for you
[19:18] <Askarii> oh
[19:18] <Askarii> okay
[19:18] <Askarii> this tool is already on xubuntu?
[19:18] <vidd> yes
[19:19] <Askarii> so my drivers will be effective for linux AND windows?
[19:20] <vidd> no...linux drivers are different then windows drivers
[19:21] <Askarii> ahh
[19:21] <Askarii> okay
[19:21] <Askarii> alright
[19:21] <Askarii> thx :)
[19:21] <vidd> but linux will install most linux drivers for you
[19:21] <vidd> the only big issue anymore is wireless
[19:22] <Askarii> hmm
[19:22] <Askarii> alright
[19:22] <Askarii> thx very much :)
[19:22] <vidd> no problem
[19:22] <Askarii> is abiword very diff from openoffice?
[19:23] <vidd> yes
[19:24] <vidd> well...not VERY different....enough to make a difference though
[19:24] <Askarii> okay
[19:24] <Askarii> well
[19:24] <Askarii> its judgement day
[19:24] <Askarii> time to whipe my HDD clean ;)
[19:24] <Askarii> thx again
[19:25] <vidd> np
[19:35] <chimp> how can you make windows 'always on top' in xfce like you can in gnome?
[19:36] <zoredache> chimp: click on the control box, and choose 'always on top'?
[19:36] <zoredache> the control box is the icon at the top-left corner of the application window.
[19:37] <chimp> ahh, i see cheers
[19:37] <chimp> was trying to right click them in the panel
[19:37] <zoredache> if you want to set up something permanent so that each time it gets started, I believe you can use devilspie
[19:39] <chimp> its ok, was only a temp thing
[21:33] <califa54> I'm new - no question during install for root password - now get error on su - how to get passwd ?
[21:34] <zoredache> the root password is disabled by default
[21:34] <zoredache> and a program called 'sudo' is setup to allow you to get root access
[21:34] <zoredache> for a root shell run a command like 'sudo -s', or 'sudo bash'
[21:35] <zoredache> if you want to run a specific command you can just use 'sudo command'
[21:35] <zoredache> !sudo | califa54
[21:35] <ubotu> califa54: sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information.
[21:36] <maxamillion> you can also get the entire root environment by running 'sudo su -'
[21:37] <califa54> 'su root' asks for password - nothing works - cannot get to root ?
[21:38] <maxamillion> califa54: don't do 'su root', type what i just told you to type 'sudo su -' and give it *your* password
[21:38] <califa54> sudo su
[21:39] <maxamillion> califa54: add the -
[21:40] <califa54> it works - thanks - seems strange - but works - am in root
[21:40] <maxamillion> 'sudo su' will work, but per spec you need the - to take on the user environment of root
[21:40] <maxamillion> califa54: read the man page for su, it explains why the - is needed
[21:41] <califa54> 'sudo su' without '-' got me to root - asked for user password
[21:43] <califa54> I see the difference - again thanks
[21:46] <califa54> Interesting - on returning to User from Root, History is lost - tested twice - saw this years ago on debian
[21:47] <zoredache> if you use the - then you have a shell in roots home, and root has it's own history
[21:48] <califa54> right - but my last several linux's did not lose the User history when returning from Root -
[21:48] <zoredache> yes, but how did you get there...  Exactly how you get root matters
[21:48] <zoredache>  if you where to use the 'sudo -s' then the history should be in  your context
[21:48] <Sound54> bro im newbie, want to ask after download ubuntu 7.04 i try run in the folder.. but error messege is cannot found Command File.. what i need to do?
[21:50] <califa54> Were all apps closed ?
[21:51] <zoredache> Sound54: 7.04 is an older release... I would suggest you consider going to the recent 7.10.  What did you download, a 'ubuntu-nnnn.iso'?  You'll need to burn that to a CD in image mode, then boot of the CD
[21:51] <zoredache> off*
[21:51] <Sound54> oic
[21:52] <zoredache> Where you able to find and read the installation Directions?
[22:10] <Dissentor> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/HOWTO:_Install_Xubuntu
[22:28] <cyberix> Could someone run this demo http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/twruottu/notif/ in XFCE and take a screen shot for me?
[22:29] <cyberix> It is a script that I use to test notification icons
[22:56] <zoredache> cyberix: it worked for me...  What are you up to?
[23:34] <Askarii> can anywell gimme a quick briefing on the different File systems when making a partition?
[23:36] <Askarii> ...


[06:33] <didrocks> good morning
[06:42] <didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
[06:42] <pitti> bonjour didrocks -- très fatigue :/ comment vas-tu ?
[06:43] <didrocks> pitti: oh, pourquoi fatigué ?
[06:43] <didrocks> moi ça va
[06:43] <pitti> didrocks: je suis allé dormir tard hier soir, après basketball
[06:43] <didrocks> ah… ok, donc peu de sommeil!
[07:58] <mitya57> xnox: do you have anything against me merging gnome-keyring 3.14 (you touched it last)?
[07:58] <mitya57> I have prepared a merge based on 3.10.1-1ubuntu7 a couple of days ago (in ppa:mitya57/gnome-test), it needs minor rebasing on -1ubuntu9 though.
[08:27] <willcooke> oh.  day off.  oops
[09:03] <Laney> hey hey
[09:03] <didrocks> morning Laney
[09:03] <didrocks> how goes?
[09:03] <Laney> pretty decent
[09:03] <Laney> we had curry + cake last night
[09:04] <Laney> the cake in volume was 50% icing and 50% cake
[09:04] <Laney> \o/
[09:04] <Laney> you?
[09:04] <didrocks> nice! :)
[09:04] <didrocks> everything's fine here, today is eye doctor day and see what happened in the last 2 years of half :/
[09:05] <Laney> going to get a new prescription?
[09:05] <Laney> desrt: did you figure out how to use them?
[09:05] <didrocks> probably, I'm not confortable anymore with my glasses when watching tv
[09:06] <Laney> I went like 5 years ago and was told I would need reading glasses at some point
[09:06] <Laney> still don't have any problems that I can detect though ...
[09:06] <didrocks> well, I guess the longer you don't need them, the better
[09:06] <Laney> ya
[09:07] <Laney> the parents got them when they were about 45
[09:07] <didrocks> that's nice!
[09:07] <didrocks> well, I see the positive side that at least, I have no issue with my tooth (never got *anything* to them)
[09:08] <Laney> ha, nice
[09:08] <didrocks> we can't have advantages everywhere I guess ;)
[09:08] <Laney> guess the parents made you brush well early on ;-)
[09:08] <didrocks> not especially, I would say I wasn't eating a lot of candies, but still… ;)
[09:10] <Laney> hehe
[09:10] <Laney> I need to switch back to offlineimap
[09:10] <Laney> syncmaildir is just too slooooooooowwwwww
[09:13] <didrocks> I guess I'll switch to mut + offlineimap soon, thunderbird is getting slower and slower
[09:13] <didrocks> my filtering are all server-side, so cost to switch is small
[09:18] <Laney> yep
[09:18]  * Laney runs a sync
[09:31] <Sweet5hark> moin
[09:54]  * mitya57 loves our branch/version numbering
[09:54] <mitya57> A branch named lp:~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/trunk.14.04 contains version 12.10.2+15.04.20141111.
[09:56] <Laney> bahaha
[09:56] <ricotz> mitya57, hi, just wondering what is up with the "gnome-panel" transition?
[09:56] <Laney> I think if you manually fix the upstream part it works
[09:56] <Laney> i.e. the CI train uses that
[09:57] <mitya57> ricotz: I patched all packages except one (apt-watch), and for that I filed RM request.
[09:58] <mitya57> That is bug 1396690 (TL;DR: upstream is dead, and update-notifier is better)
[09:58] <ricotz> mitya57, i see, patched as in locally prepared?
[09:58] <mitya57> Laney: I know, but then it will be less funny.
[09:58] <mitya57> ricotz: no, in -proposed
[09:59] <Laney> I once wrote a UDD query to find the longest versions ever used in Ubuntu
[09:59] <Laney> the results were cool
[09:59]  * Laney wonders if it's still in psql history
[10:00] <Laney> OHO!
[10:00] <Laney> flashplugin-nonfree has been knocked off the top spot!
[10:00] <ricotz> mitya57,ok, e.g. indicator-applet?
[10:00] <Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9265630/
[10:01] <mitya57> Ooh
[10:02] <mitya57> ricotz: indicator-applet doesn't need patching, it needs a simple rebuild (I filed a MP in hope that can be done via the CI Train).
[10:02] <Laney> link?
[10:02] <Laney> if it's just a rebuild then JFDI IMHO
[10:02] <Laney> i.e. self approve and CI train it
[10:02] <mitya57> ricotz: The patched packages are uim, workrave, sensors-applet, gnubiff and netspeed.
[10:03] <mitya57> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/indicator-applet/no-change-rebuild/+merge/242470
[10:03] <ricotz> mitya57, yeah, although this one is missing ;)
[10:03] <mitya57> I don't have rights to approve/merge it.
[10:04] <Laney> there
[10:04] <mitya57> Thanks
[10:04] <Laney> train does the merge part
[10:04] <ricotz> :)
[10:05] <mitya57> Laney: now I should go to #ubuntu-ci-eng and request a silo, right? or just upload it directly to archive?
[10:06] <Laney> You can upload it or try to use the train if you want to figure out how
[10:06] <mitya57> OK, let's try the latter =)
[10:06] <Laney> For no-change rebuilds the next uploader of a real change can just tell it to ignore the trunk/archive mismatch
[10:09] <Laney> mitya57: okay so add a line at the bottom of http://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain (google spreadsheet) and fill in columns A B F H I J
[10:11] <mitya57> I only have read access to that
[10:11] <Laney> blerg
[10:11] <Laney> do you have a google account?
[10:12] <Laney> maybe sil2100 can give you access?
[10:12] <mitya57> sil2100: ^ please :) I am mitya57 at gmail com
[10:12] <xnox> Laney: if i do branches, would you do landing for me? or should i just dput into the archive...?
[10:12] <xnox> (for vivid)
[10:13] <Laney> what kind of branches?
[10:16] <xnox> Laney: rebuild unity greeter / control center to pick up 15.04 embeded in the image.
[10:17] <Laney> no-change rebuild> upload IMHO
[10:17] <Laney> but also you should be able to use the train yourself in the same way I'm trying to get mitya57 able to right now
[10:19]  * mitya57 wonders why xnox ignores his questions about gnome-keyring merge
[10:19] <xnox> mitya57: hm?
[10:19] <mitya57> xnox: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/27/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t07:58
[10:19] <xnox> mitya57: his as in my own, or yours?
[10:20] <xnox> mitya57: sorry, missed in my irc proxy scrollback.
[10:20] <mitya57> My merge
[10:20] <mitya57> also http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/11/25/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t11:37
[10:20] <mitya57> No problem, I also miss it sometimes :)
[10:21] <xnox> mitya57: yeah, i don't want it yet. I'd want to have the current sru land into at least utopic for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/1387303
[10:21] <xnox> mitya57: and then do merge to get new shiny goodness.
[10:21] <xnox> mitya57: as there are about 9 dupes and people are angry.
[10:21] <mitya57> Ok, fine, then I'll wait
[10:21] <xnox> mitya57: also don't merge before talking to TIL =)
[10:21] <xnox> mitya57: i'm happy to give up a few things, but not everything at the moment.
[10:22] <sil2100> mitya57: access to the CI Train spreadsheet, right?
[10:22] <mitya57> sil2100: yes
[10:22] <sil2100> o/ Let me add you then, one momen
[10:23] <mitya57> xnox: btw there are LOTS of memory leak fixes in upstream git, we should definitely have that in vivid
[10:23] <xnox> mitya57: yeah, yeah.
[10:23] <xnox> we will.
[10:24] <xnox> mitya57: re:apt-watch why not request removal in debian? and then removals are auto-propagated to ubuntu
[10:25] <sil2100> Laney, mitya57: added to both spreadsheet and the LP team
[10:25] <mitya57> xnox: in Debian we don't yet have a gnome-panel transition, so that is not urgent
[10:25] <Laney> sil2100: ta
[10:25] <mitya57> sil2100: thanks a lot
[10:25] <xnox> mitya57: it fails to build from source or something? or needs porting?
[10:25] <sil2100> mitya57: remember that we have documentation for our landing process here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/citrain/LandingProcess
[10:25] <mitya57> needs porting first from gconf to gsettings, and then to new gnome-panel
[10:26] <xnox> Laney: ah seb already uploaded unity-control-center version string bump. so it's only the greeter.
[10:26] <Laney> cool
[10:26] <xnox> mitya57: probably best to demote it from release pocket to -proposed, thus it would not block migrations but still in the development archive / in-sync with debian.
[10:27] <xnox> mitya57: is it the last blocker for the transition?
[10:28] <mitya57> xnox: yes. indicator-applet is not yet uploaded but will be done soon
[10:29] <mitya57> ~ubuntu-archive is still the right team (for demoting), right?
[10:30] <Laney> The docs mention pinging trainguards, but core-devs can do the silo assignment themselves, btw
[10:35] <Laney> mitya57: just saw https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/unity-settings-daemon/headerbar-xsettings - overriding via org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xsettings overrides still work with the fixed_false stuff?
[10:35] <Laney> s/overriding/does overriding/
[10:35] <mitya57> Laney: the docs say that the assign silo button is in "Landing team tools" menubar, but where is that?
[10:36] <mitya57> Laney: yes, that will still work
[10:36] <Laney> I see that next to "Help" at the top
[10:36] <Laney> ok, I'm going to build/review/include that
[10:36] <mitya57> Ah I see
[10:36] <Laney> got it?
[10:36] <mitya57> got it
[10:36] <mitya57> Laney: did you read my whole message to ubuntu-desktop@?
[10:36] <mitya57> (about that window buttons stuff)
[10:38] <Laney> yeah
[10:38] <Laney> I think we (larsu) were going to work on theming these this cycle
[10:39] <mitya57> Actually maybe we don'
[10:39] <mitya57> *don't need that fixed_false commit as it is a no-op
[10:41] <Laney> I know gsd overrides it to true, so maybe gtk won't change the default
[10:42] <Laney> it would probably be in bad taste for them to do so really
[10:42] <mitya57> Laney: can I grab any empty landing ppa?
[10:43] <mitya57> Laney: yes, I figured out that gtk default != g-s-d default only after pushing it
[10:43] <Laney> well I don't mind either way, so revert it in the branch if you like
[10:44] <Laney> if you leave the assign dialog at its defaults it auto-assigns one of the free PPAs
[10:45] <mitya57> got this error from jenkins:
[10:45] <mitya57> You must use POST method to trigger builds. (From scripts you may instead pass a per-project authentication token, or authenticate with your API token.) If you see this page, it may be because a plugin offered a GET link; file a bug report for that plugin.
[10:45] <Laney> usual fail
[10:46] <Laney> click the button
[10:46] <Laney> authenticate then try again
[10:46] <Laney> authenticate to jenkins that is, using SSO
[10:47] <mitya57> It says that I am logged in
[10:47] <Laney> what happened when you clicked proceed?
[10:47]  * mitya57 logs out and then back in
[10:47] <larsu> Laney: indeed (what exactly are you talking about?)
[10:48] <mitya57> looks like it worked
[10:48] <Laney> larsu: there's a patch to u-s-d to make headerbar decorations respect the gsetting
[10:48] <Laney> i.e. for Ubuntu they go on the left
[10:48] <Laney> also, hi, how's it going!
[10:49] <Laney> mitya57: so now I normaly switch to http://people.canonical.com/~platform/citrain_dashboard/
[10:49] <larsu> Laney: hi! Good! Just found out that we needlessy copy .pngs for Ambiance and Radiance into both themes...
[10:49] <larsu> Laney: but why u-s-d? Shouldn't that be a gtk patch?
[10:49] <larsu> Laney: how are you?
[10:49] <Laney> usd has the xsettings manager
[10:50] <Laney> it's where the mapping from gsettings into xsettings goes, then gtk gets it from there
[10:50] <Laney> I am good
[10:51] <larsu> right, I didn't know it didn't do that part yet
[10:51] <larsu> want me to review?
[10:51] <Laney> ya, g-s-d does but ... forks
[10:52] <larsu> \o/
[10:52] <Laney> if you like, I think it's mainly a cherry-pick
[10:52] <Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/unity-settings-daemon/headerbar-xsettings
[10:54] <mitya57> Laney, larsu: pushed the new version with only second commit
[10:55] <Laney> ty
[10:57] <larsu> I was about to complain :)
[10:57] <larsu> looks good to me now
[10:58] <larsu> not the way I'd have done it, but since this is a cherry pick and working, I won't complain
[10:58] <larsu> Laney: I can't approve though, can you?
[11:00] <Laney> ye
[11:01] <Laney> larsu: want to comment approve?
[11:02] <larsu> done
[11:02] <Laney> merci
[11:02] <larsu> neat: "Lars Uebernickel (community)"
[11:02] <Laney> "(scum)"
[11:03] <larsu> ts ts
[11:03] <Laney> I mean "(valued contributor ♥)"
[11:03] <Laney> typo
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> it's a bit hostile in here this morning!
[11:03] <larsu> haha - I want to see the keyboard that makes typos like this easy
[11:03] <larsu> or your hands........
[11:03] <Laney> dem slippery fingers
[11:04] <sil2100> ;)
[11:04]  * Laney tapes chrisccoulson to a lamppost
[11:04] <Laney> i'll give you hostile
[11:04] <Mirv> mitya57: welcome to the world of mouse clicking called citrain!
[11:04] <chrisccoulson> lol
[11:04] <Laney> right, I'm getting on the CI train
[11:05]  * Laney toots
[11:05] <Mirv> we used to have #ubuntu-ci-choo-choo for bot notifications, I kind of miss it
[11:07] <sil2100> The choo-choo bot wouldn't work anymore with all the changes that happened I suppose
[11:08] <mitya57> Mirv: :-)
[11:10] <Laney> and the best thing is that all this knowledge will be obsolete soon™ when we get the airline :)
[11:11] <mitya57> While I am here: is there any way to merge something but not land to archive (i.e. when the change is minor)?
[11:15] <Mirv> +1 to ”soon™”
[11:16] <Mirv> mitya57: kind of, but I doubt anyone has ever done that since it's cheap to publish too. one can make merge&clean job ignore the fact that the package is not published/indestinationarchive.
[11:16] <Mirv> and it's cheap to add another (small or big) MP to the same landing
[11:16] <mitya57> ok
[11:16] <Laney> blerg
[11:17] <Mirv> mitya57: what has been done though is direct pushing to trunk when there's no landing ongoing and eg. changelog needs updating to account for a no-change rebuild pushed to archives or such thing
[11:17] <mitya57> ok
[11:18] <mitya57> also, how does one build $random-non-cu2d-package in a silo?
[11:18] <mitya57> (i.e. like Laney built webkitgtk for me)
[11:18] <Laney> I put them in 'additional source packages' and then assigned a silo
[11:18] <Laney> and I just dputted to it
[11:19] <Mirv> core-dev:s can dput to the silo directly, like a manual upload but not to archives
[11:19] <Laney> because I'm in ~ci-train-ppa-service
[11:19] <Mirv> oh, maybe not all core-dev:s
[11:19] <Mirv> right, only https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+members
[11:19] <mitya57> yes, I am a core dev, but LP says I am not in ~ci-train-ppa-service
[11:20] <Laney> Not sure who can be added to that, talk to the administrators I guess
[11:20] <Mirv> most landings are train landings and then non-train landings are pushed directly to archives, but mixed silos (feature needing both train and non-train packages) need some help from someone in that team
[11:21] <mitya57> ok, will talk to admins if I need to test something like that again
[11:21] <mitya57> oh, nice, indicator-applet FTBFS
[11:22]  * mitya57 fixes
[11:24] <Laney> pitti: you attached to your gvfs merge? I could borrow it if not
[11:25] <pitti> Laney: please go wild
[11:25] <Laney> ty
[11:25] <pitti> Laney: but I thought I already merged it
[11:25] <Laney> I uploaded the new release to exp
[11:25] <pitti> Laney: oh, exp
[11:26] <Laney> the wild west
[12:00] <Laney> didrocks or larsu: If you see bug #1394063 or the one seb128 was talking about yesterday, could you check ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/landing-005 please?
[12:01] <didrocks> Laney: the keys are working for me though (I don't have the upower segfault)
[12:01] <Laney> it's not a segfault
[12:01] <larsu> Laney: sorry, keys work fine for me as well
[12:01] <Laney> ok
[12:01] <didrocks> Laney: I meant, plugin not loading
[12:01] <Laney> I think some laptops bypass the usd/userspace layer for brightness
[12:01] <Laney> do you get a notification when changing it?
[12:01] <didrocks> I do get it
[12:02] <Laney> WEIRD!
[12:02] <didrocks> there was a race in trusty btw, sometimes, not media key (including brightness) were working
[12:02] <didrocks> no*
[12:02] <didrocks> only way was to reboot the user session
[12:04] <Laney> don't know about that
[12:08] <larsu> I don't get the notification!
[12:08] <larsu> now that I know this, I want it!
[12:09] <Laney> you guys are bad test cases :p
[12:09] <Laney> if offlineimap ever finishes syncing I'll dist-upgrade to vivid and try myself
[12:09] <Laney> (doesn't seem very likely it's going to do so any time soon)
[12:13] <larsu> Laney: missed the opportunity to say something like "do I have to do *everything* by myself"
[12:14] <didrocks> larsu: don't want to challenge offlineimap syncing AND apt? :)
[12:15] <larsu> haha
[12:16] <Laney> heh
[12:17] <didrocks> and yeah, ETOOMANYLA* again
[12:17] <didrocks> needing a patch to sort this mess! ;)
[12:24] <mlankhorst> \o/
[12:24] <mlankhorst> compiz works
[12:24] <didrocks> that's been my \o/ for years, get a new release working ;)
[12:24] <didrocks> (I know, not the same context here :p)
[12:25] <mlankhorst> hah
[12:28] <Sweet5hark> no seb128 today? :_(
[12:29] <larsu> Sweet5hark: he took the day off
[14:12] <didrocks> Laney: do you know how to have your chroot sessions being dumped in /tmp ?
[14:13] <Laney> dumped how?
[14:13] <didrocks> (apart from a symlink from /var/lib/schroot/mount/ of course)
[14:13] <didrocks> like I want my schroot sessions to be in /tmp/<session_name>
[14:16] <Laney> hmm, don't know, you could try mounting a tmpfs at that directory though if that's what you want to do
[14:17] <didrocks> yeah, I was thinking about that as well, you are not making your sbuild on tmpfs then, I guess?
[14:21] <Laney> I use union-overlay-directory
[14:23] <didrocks> Laney: and you point it to a tmpfs dir?
[14:23] <didrocks> not /var/lib/schroot/union/overlay/ ?
[14:23] <Laney> Yeah, or you could mount that as tmpfs I guess
[14:23] <didrocks> interesting
[14:24] <Laney> I also put /var/lib/sbuild/build on tmpfs but don't immediately remember why
[14:24] <Laney> I think that's where it unpacks to
[14:24] <didrocks> Laney: ah nice tip, let me have a try
[14:28] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, you're right, it's the unpacking dir
[16:19] <Laney> ruh roh
[16:20] <Laney> There's some problem with glib 2.43 and GSettings
[16:20] <Laney> I'm not getting a 'changed' callback
[16:21] <Laney> hmm
[16:22] <didrocks> Laney: isn't what desrt was talking about? There is now an order between connecting a signal and (? getting a value?)
[16:22] <Laney> Probably
[16:22] <Laney> I'm just reading that commit
[16:22] <didrocks> I think he talked about it during the sprint and last week meeting :)
[16:23] <didrocks> larsu knows as well about this
[16:24] <didrocks> Laney: https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=8ff5668a458344da22d30491e3ce726d861b3619
[16:24] <didrocks> We do this in a simple way, using a simple argument: in order for the
[16:24] <Laney> I know, I'm read it
[16:24] <didrocks> user to care that a value changed then they must have:
[16:24] <Laney> reading
[16:24] <didrocks>  1) watched for a change signal; and then
[16:24] <didrocks>  2) actually read a value
[16:29] <larsu> right, the reasoning is that you can't care about that it changed when you've never read the initial value
[16:30] <larsu> turns out that's wrong for a lot of use cases (for example, the gsettings-tool monitor command)
[16:30] <larsu> Laney: what are you using it for?
[16:31] <Laney> u-s-d watching the idle delay
[16:31] <Laney> it should be reading the value at startup, let me see
[16:41] <larsu> Laney: make sure it connects to the signal before reading the value
[16:42] <Laney> it does
[16:42] <Laney> this is weird though
[16:42] <larsu> what is?
[16:43] <Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-power-manager.c#n1710
[16:43] <Laney> "Don't dim when charging"
[16:45] <larsu> why is that a thing?
[16:46] <Laney> I'm basically confused now
[16:46] <larsu> I guess because dimming is a battery-saving feature?
[16:46] <Laney> it means you don't read the delay on a desktop
[16:46] <larsu> so not really needed when not on battery
[16:46] <larsu> that too
[16:48] <Laney> the setting is called "Turn screen off when inactive for"
[16:49] <larsu> "unless on battery" :P
[16:49] <larsu> *not
[16:50] <Laney> maybe I'm looking in the wrong place
[16:50] <Laney> something is making my screen lock
[16:50] <Laney> (and turn off)
[16:50] <Laney> symptom was that $something wasn't noticing when I changed this setting
[16:51] <larsu> u-s-d seems like a good candidate for $something
[17:03] <Laney> ah
[17:03] <Laney> I think it might come in via the screensaver
[17:11] <Laney> bleh, changing it works now
[17:11]  * Laney puts this to one side
[17:50] <Laney> ok I lied and didn't put it to one side
[17:50] <Laney> larsu: if you're still here ...
[17:51] <Laney> With new glib I don't see a g_settings_bind_with_mapping firing
[17:51] <Laney> is this affected by the same change?
[17:52] <larsu> bind should read the value initially
[17:52] <Laney> I see the first read but not subsequent ones
[17:52] <Laney> not *changes*
[17:53] <larsu> let me check
[17:54] <larsu> which flags are you passing?
[17:54]  * didrocks waves good evening
[17:54] <larsu> didrocks: bye!
[17:55] <Laney> G_SETTINGS_BIND_GET
[17:55] <didrocks> good luck for your debugging larsu & Laney :)
[17:55] <larsu> thanks!
[17:55] <Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-session/tree/gnome-session/gsm-manager.c#n2701 ← that
[17:55] <larsu> Laney: code looks correct. It connects to the changed signal and then reads the value
[17:58] <larsu> Laney: you're sure it does the first read but then it doesn't get changed events?
[18:03] <Laney> larsu: Yeah. Try with glib from vivid-proposed if you want...
[18:04] <Laney> If you run gnome-session with --debug (/usr/share/upstart/sessions/gnome-session.conf append --debug there) you can see the watches being changed when the key changes
[18:04] <larsu> Laney: I'm trying with master right now but gotta run soon. No promises ;)
[18:04] <Laney> I'm running too, no worries, it'll still be broken tomorrow. :P
[18:04] <larsu> yay \o
[18:05] <Laney> but I believe this is the essence of the bug, so that's progress
[18:05]  * Laney goes away, ttyl!
[18:05]  * Laney remembers *not* to suspend as offlineimap is still going strong
[18:06] <larsu> enjoy your evening!
[18:46] <mitya57> ricotz: indicator-applet landed, but I missed command-runner-applet (which was using libpanel-applet via pygi). Will look at it tomorrow.
[19:26] <Noskcaj> Are there any plans to try building liblldb-3.5-dev on amr64 and ppc64le?
[19:26] <Noskcaj> If not, codelite needs patching to not use it
[19:26] <Noskcaj> *arm64
[22:14] <attente_> robert_ancell: hey, is there a reason you don't create a mir window impl when the window class is GDK_INPUT_ONLY?
[22:14] <robert_ancell> attente_, I don't think Mir has a concept of input only windows
[22:17] <attente_> oh, ok, there seems to be some code related to selecting text that depends on an impl existing
[22:17] <desrt> via GtkInvisible
[23:06] <rsalveti> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1397135


[04:44] <jbicha> hi, could I be unbanned from #ubuntu-devel please?
[04:45] <JoseeAntonioR> jbicha: please, request it in #ubuntu-ops. You were forwardbanned as a result of an intermittent connection
[04:45] <Unit193> It's just a fyc ban, so chances are higher I'd think.
[04:45] <jbicha> JoseeAntonioR: wouldn't it have been better to do a temporary ban then?
[04:49] <JoseeAntonioR> jbicha: that's up to the ops decision
[04:49] <jbicha> JoseeAntonioR: ok, I didn't realize you weren't an op, thanks
[04:50] <Unit193> Typically the user will come back after fixing the connection and then asks the op or in the OPs channel.
[09:42] <jgdx> Hi, can I have a cloak? LP: https://launchpad.net/~jonas-drange
[09:43] <Myrtti> would you like an unaffiliated one?
[09:46] <jpds> jgdx: /msg.
[09:46] <jgdx> Yep
[11:53] <Phantomas> What is the #ubuntu's policy for questions about backtrack and wireless cracking? In #ubuntu-gr I usually answer that "backtrack is not Ubuntu based" and that "we don't give support for backtrack"
[11:54] <k1l> !backtrack
[11:54] <k1l> Phantomas: same for the core channel
[11:57] <Phantomas> k1l: oh, thanks! (AFAIK backtrack is based on Debian)
[11:58] <k1l> nowadays yes, but they started with ubuntu base
[11:59] <Phantomas> aha!


[21:13]  * penguin42 is offended it's dropped to December temperatures
[21:13] <daftykins> ooh, big swing?
[21:14] <penguin42> it's 4c now, it was like 11c a few days ago
[21:17] <daftykins> ooh that'd be noticeable


[01:50] <mup> PR snapd#10012 opened: tests: revert os.query usage in spread.yaml <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10012>
[03:05] <mup> PR snapd#10013 opened: o/devicestate/handlers_install.go: split makebootable into it's own task <Needs Samuele review> <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10013>
[06:44] <mborzecki> morning
[07:41] <mup> PR snapd#10000 closed: client: protect against reading too much data from stdin <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10000>
[07:42] <mvo> mborzecki: I'm inclined to merge 10008 with only a single review because it fixes master, wdyt?
[07:42] <mborzecki> mvo: yes, please ;)
[07:46] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks!
[07:46] <mup> PR snapd#10008 closed: tests/lib/prepare: fix repacking of the UC20 kernel snap for with ubuntu-core-initramfs 40 <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <⚠ Critical> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10008>
[07:49] <mvo> mborzecki: Thank *you* for the fix :)
[07:51] <mup> PR snapd#10009 closed: boot: export bootAssetsMap as AssetsMap <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10009>
[07:55] <mborzecki> hm hm, snap-store edge is older than stable/candidate/beta?
[07:57] <mup> PR snapd#10012 closed: tests: revert os.query usage in spread.yaml <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10012>
[08:03] <pstolowski> morning
[08:04] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[08:04] <mvo> mborzecki: 9989 seems to fail in unit tests right now, may need an update after the PR from ian about boot.AssertsMap
[08:07] <mup> PR snapd#9996 closed: tests: improve sections prepare and restore - part 1 <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9996>
[08:07] <mup> PR snapd#9997 closed: tests: update details on task.yaml files <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9997>
[08:26] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[09:26] <pedronis> pstolowski: hi, it's #9922 ready for re-review?
[09:26] <mup> PR #9922: api: validation sets monitor mode <Needs Samuele review> <validation-sets :white_check_mark:> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9922>
[09:27] <mup> PR snapd#10014 opened: release: 2.49.1 <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10014>
[09:27] <pstolowski> pedronis: hey, i'm pondering about your question re validateAgainstStore; other than that - yes
[09:27] <pedronis> mborzecki: hi, should I look at #10006 again?
[09:27] <mup> PR #10006: [RFC] cmd/snap-bootstrap: refactor handling of ubuntu-save, do not use secboot's implicit fallback <Run nested> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10006>
[09:27] <mup> Bug #10006: python libglade program crashes on load <pygtk (Ubuntu):Fix Released by seb128> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/10006>
[09:28] <mborzecki> pedronis: yes, please do, if it makes sense i'll update the diagrams and poke ian for reviews too
[09:28] <mborzecki> pedronis: i mean, unless you didn't finish the review on friday, as i haven't pushed the helper for naming partitions to your secboot
[09:32] <mup> PR snapd#9784 closed: interfaces/builtin/network-setup-{control,observe}: allow using netplan directly <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9784>
[09:43] <pstolowski> pedronis: i agree with your question about validateAgainstStore; shall i address it in this PR or followup?
[09:50] <pedronis> pstolowski: given the PR is already a bit big a follow-up?
[09:50] <pstolowski> pedronis: sure, that works for me
[09:53] <mborzecki> mvo: can you land #9989? the failures unrelated and mostly in apt-hooks and snap-advise
[09:53] <mup> PR #9989: boot: reseal the run key for all recovery systems, but recovery keys only for the good ones <Run nested> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9989>
[10:07] <mvo> mborzecki: sure
[10:08] <mvo> mborzecki: done
[10:08] <mborzecki> mvo: thank you!
[10:12] <mup> PR snapd#9989 closed: boot: reseal the run key for all recovery systems, but recovery keys only for the good ones <Run nested> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9989>
[11:22] <mup> PR snapd#9914 closed: image: write resolved-content from snap prepare-image <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9914>
[12:12] <mup> PR snapd#10015 opened: boot: simplify systems test setup <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10015>
[12:17] <mup> PR snapd#10016 opened:  boot: helper for inspecting the outcome of a recovery system try  <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10016>
[13:08] <ijohnson> morning folks
[13:08] <mborzecki> school run, back in 30
[13:11] <pstolowski> hey ijohnson
[13:11] <ijohnson> hello pstolowski
[13:14] <ogra> oh, wow ... i'm hitting the "fonts show as squares" issue on my 16.04 for the first time !
[13:14] <ogra> (i have never seen that on Ubuntu before)
[13:15] <ijohnson> actually pstolowski I was just looking at your bootchart you put in the SU notes, thanks for doing that, where did you get the 248ms number from ?
[13:20] <cachio_> mborzecki, hi
[13:20] <cachio_> mborzecki, this is just failing on arch https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/S6vJCMtPsQ/
[13:20] <cachio_> any idea if it is a known issue?
[13:29] <mup> PR snapcraft#3468 opened: store: set auth headers when using login --with <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3468>
[13:31] <mborzecki> re
[13:32] <mborzecki> cachio_: kind of, we've seen it fail on arch quite frequently
[13:34] <cachio_> mborzecki, the problem is that when we remove the snap and the rule
[13:34] <cachio_> the tag is not removed
[13:35] <cachio_> so if in the same machine are executed both variants of the same test
[13:35] <cachio_> the second one fails
[13:35] <ijohnson> cachio_: as I think I mentioned yesterday, that test needs to clean up after itself more to avoid the fact that snapd does not entirely clean itself up
[13:35] <cachio_> ijohnson, but it works well in other systems than arch
[13:35] <cachio_> I just can reproduce that on arch
[13:36] <ijohnson> cachio_: I think the root cause is the same though, that snapd does not clean up / remove cgroups after the snap is removed, I think we need to add a force cleanup restore section to the test
[13:36] <mborzecki> hmm maybe something about incomplete cleanup on arch then
[13:37] <ijohnson> are all the store find tests still broken this morning
[13:37] <ijohnson> ?
[13:37] <cachio_> ijohnson, you mean to add a new rule to clean the tag?
[13:37] <cachio_> ijohnson, aparently yes :(
[13:37] <ijohnson> cachio_: I mean we need to fix the test, can you send me a list of tests that check for this kind of device tagging / cgroup behavior ?
[13:37] <ijohnson> :-/
[13:39] <diddledan> snapcraft.io builds are broken for several folk https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/the-specified-repository-is-being-used-by-another-snap/23218/4
[13:41] <mborzecki> cachio_: ijohnson: hmm surprisingly my browsing history lists pages about removig udev tags :/
[13:41] <ijohnson> oh no haha
[13:50] <pstolowski> ijohnson: look for mkdir  [865]10.9ms, install with 248.5ms is a bit above
[13:51] <ijohnson> pstolowski: oh I see I was looking at the other install hook which was calling postgres etc
[13:55] <pstolowski> ijohnson: my only guess is that the discrepnancy (248ms from bootchart vs 1500ms from debug timings) is an overhead of snap run/confine which is simply not reflected in bootchart
[13:56] <ijohnson> pstolowski: do you know if the number behind the bootchart is system time or wall time?
[13:57] <ijohnson> because just glancing at the chart, it seems that the bar for that install task is longer than 1 second, each x axis tick is 1 second and it's at least 1 tick long
[13:57] <ijohnson> so I don't wonder if it was stuck waiting on I/O or something else and we are just measuring system time with the boot chart, but wall time with the timings
[13:57] <pstolowski> hmm
[13:58] <ijohnson> what's also weird is io write is very low there and io read is moderately low, but cpu is 100% and cpu wait is 100% at that time
[13:58] <ijohnson> anyways SU now
[13:58] <mup> PR snapd#10014 closed: release: 2.49.1 <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10014>
[13:58] <mup> PR snapd#10015 closed: boot: simplify systems test setup <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10015>
[14:37] <zyga> re
[14:37] <zyga> so tired today
[14:38] <zyga> hey folks, how are things
[14:43] <mup> PR snapd#10017 opened: gadget: remove `device-tree{,-origin}` from gadget tests <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10017>
[14:52] <ijohnson> tests are sad
[14:58] <mvo> ijohnson: oh no
[14:58] <mvo> ijohnson: which one in particular?
[14:58] <ijohnson> mvo: I just meant that the store tests seem to be sad
[14:58] <ijohnson> about find/sections
[14:59] <mvo> ijohnson: oh, ok
[14:59] <mvo> ijohnson: sorry, misunderstood
[14:59] <ijohnson> no worries
[15:08]  * cachio lunch
[15:30] <mup> PR snapcraft#3468 closed: store: set auth headers when using login --with <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3468>
[15:40] <pstolowski> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10007 needs 2nd review
[15:40] <mup> PR #10007: o/configstate, o/snapshotstate: fix handling of nil snap config on snapshot restore <Bug> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10007>
[16:18] <pstolowski> pedronis: thanks for the reviews
[16:21] <pedronis> thank you
[16:25] <mup> PR snapcraft#3460 closed: repo: introduce DebPackage class to standardize package name parsing <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3460>
[16:45] <mup> PR snapcraft#3469 opened: [wip] craft-providers <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3469>
[16:49] <cjwatson> diddledan: Launchpad regression, sorry.  We're rolling back now
[17:02] <cjwatson> diddledan: ... and fixed now
[17:06] <diddledan> thanks cjwatson
[17:06]  * diddledan wonder what ya'll broke :-p
[17:07] <diddledan> and fix confirmed :-)
[17:09] <cjwatson> diddledan: I linked to the (probable) fix in the forum thread
[17:11] <cjwatson> SQL bug in a privacy filter
[17:11] <diddledan> aha
[17:11] <diddledan> SQL keeps winning :-)
[17:14] <cjwatson> SQL always wins
[17:14] <cjwatson> Somehow
[17:15] <diddledan> just like DNS
[17:15] <diddledan> it's been 0 days since it was DNS or SQL
[17:18] <diddledan> I'm now reading up on what COALESCE does :-p
[17:19] <diddledan> aaah, a form of fallback
[17:22] <cjwatson> Returns first argument that isn't NULL, yes
[17:29] <mup> PR snapd#10010 closed: boot/assets.go: add InstallObserverOptions to allow providing previous assets <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <Closed by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10010>
[17:29] <mup> PR snapd#10013 closed: o/devicestate/handlers_install.go: split makebootable into it's own task <Needs Samuele review> <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <Closed by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10013>
[17:29] <mup> PR snapd#10018 opened: boot: revert #10009 <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10018>
[17:37] <diddledan> presumably that allows you to update the database with the new column without going through the historical records writing a default value to everything that was already saved
[17:37] <diddledan> which on launchpad.net might be a LOT of records to be writing default values to :-)
[17:38] <cjwatson> It's not actually that bad for snaps, but that's the general idea
[17:39] <cjwatson> Generally best not to rewrite a table as part of a schema migration if it isn't trivial to do so
[17:39] <diddledan> aye
[17:40] <cjwatson> For something like the Person table this sort of approach would be mandatory
[17:40] <cjwatson> We'll backfill it reasonably soon though
[18:54] <mup> PR snapd#10019 opened: tests: update documentation and checks for interfaces tests <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10019>
[19:05] <cachio> ijohnson, hey, I updated #9960 based on what you explained today
[19:05] <mup> PR #9960: tests: update permission denied message for test-snapd-event on ubuntu 2104 <⛔ Blocked> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9960>
[19:06] <cachio> could you please take a quick look
[19:06] <cachio> feel free to update that if you think either the fix is not correct or it needs more explanation
[19:45] <ijohnson> cachio: sure I will take a look at it
[19:45] <cachio> tx
[20:49] <mup> PR snapd#10020 opened: tests: use fs-state tool in interfaces tests <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10020>
[21:55] <mup> PR snapd#10021 opened: uc20: add dtbo partition support for lk boot loader <Created by kubiko> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10021>
[23:45] <mup> PR snapcraft#3467 closed: gitignore: sort list <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3467>


[07:55] <scoopex> i have a problem with a deadlocked kernel driver. in former times (on s390x) i used "crash" to attach a debugger to the kernel and to get a backtrace of the blocked syscall. what can i use in a similar way. i installed "crash" on 16.04 system and it seems to be the thing i am searching for, but i have not managed to attach to the running kernel ("crash /boot/vmlinux-4.10.0-33-generic
[07:55] <scoopex> /boot/System.map-4.10.0-33-generic") any hints?
[08:13] <smb> scoopex, not sure but you might have more luck by picking the source (package) of crash from zesty and re-compile it for xenial
[08:16] <smb> oh wait... to attach to the running kernel you would not use the files from /boot
[08:25] <smb> scoopex, you need a vmlinuz from a ddeb (http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/linux/). That is what crash is referring to as namelist. The other argument is optionally a memory dump or (if not given, it will try to attach to /dev/kmem (only works as root)
[08:34] <scoopex> smb: i used https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/scripts/extract-vmlinux to get a uncompressed kernel image. as i remember it was possible to add a System.map to have the positions of functions available to crash
[08:38] <scoopex> i perfomed a "strace -f -o /tmp/foo crash /boot/vmlinux-4.10.0-33-generic" and there is no access to "kmem" only a failing access to "/dev/crash"
[08:40] <smb> scoopex, normally it is enough to use the (unstripped) vmlinux from the ddeb but newer kernels often add things which crash might not (yet) have catched up with
[08:41] <scoopex> there is no /dev/kmem and not /dev/crash on my system....
[08:51] <smb> it uses /proc/kcore then, but again not sure the xenial crash can handle 4.10 kernels in all situations (kaslr causes a lot of pain)
[09:11] <scoopex> smb: but i also see no attempt in stracte to use or open /proc/kcore
[09:24] <scoopex> hmm, how do you inspect the behavior of kernel threads in a running system? are the alternatives?
[09:25] <scoopex> automated crashdumps of standard kernels would also have the same problem, right?
[09:26] <smb> scoopex, the dump files created by kdump-tools were working from what I remember
[09:27] <scoopex> but "crash" also has a option "--kaslr auto
[09:28] <smb> it has but that does not really seem to work well
[21:59] <kees> sforshee: hi! you around?


[00:06] <Unit193> micahg: Can we get you to introduce xfdashboard to Ubuntu?
[00:06] <Unit193> bluesabre: Anything else
[00:06] <Unit193> ?
[00:14] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, and Debian added support for lightdm in xscreensaver.
[00:15] <Unit193> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/xscreensaver.git/commit/?id=79dff7655455327ee5b7376149fa2975fea3e0b9
[00:16] <bluesabre> neat
[00:28] <Unit193> Crap, now I need a MOTU.
[03:41] <micahg> Unit193: is that not in Debian?
[03:43] <micahg> it appears not, is there any reason we can't upload to Debian?
[03:44] <micahg> debian 788332
[03:44] <micahg> if we get it in Debian, autosync takes care of that :)
[05:17] <Unit193> micahg: I know, but it is still not uploaded and been sitting there as an ITP/in pkg-xfce for a bit now.
[05:17] <Unit193> micahg: Also, see -motu?
[06:23] <pleia2> knome: woo, we can start our press page for 15.10 http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-15-10-officially-announced-uses-libreoffice-writer-and-calc-xfce-4-12-495122.shtml
[07:36] <flocculant> Unit193: installed xfce4-pulse
[07:38] <Unit193> Sounds fun?
[07:41] <flocculant> well you've not got an immediate Unit193 my world imploded :D
[07:41] <flocculant> knome: published now
[07:41] <Unit193> So...Not fun. ;)
[07:42] <flocculant> :)
[07:43] <flocculant> Unit193: well - volume changes with mousewheel, mute works and mixer starts pavucontrol
[07:44] <Unit193> Feature of this release is if pa is killed and respawns, it'll re-attach to pa.
[07:44] <flocculant> yep - read that
[08:03] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings_1.2.0-1.html
[09:58] <bluesabre> Unit193: oh goodie
[11:27] <knome> pleia2, :D
[15:54] <Unit193> bluesabre: Want me to keep xfce-4.12 up for wily?
[16:40] <dkessel> flocculant: i want to report an ISO test for xenial here, but there are no tests yet :p heelp :) http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/351/builds/105523/testcases
[16:43] <dkessel> i386 is there...
[16:45] <slickymasterWork> lol dkessel, only us, the i386 underdogs, matter :P
[16:47] <dkessel> you oldschoolers
[16:47] <akxwi_dave> :-)
[17:02] <dkessel> is there a tag for usability tags already?
[17:02] <dkessel> usability bugs i mean
[17:11] <slickymasterWork> I think not dkessel
[17:11] <dkessel> fyi:bug 1511053
[17:15] <dkessel> i propose the tag xubuntu-x-usability, as used in this bug :)
[17:15] <dkessel> cya later
[17:36] <flocculant> dkessel: just add usability as a tag - please don't start creating ones :)
[17:36] <flocculant> idea is that we have 3 or 4 tags we can search with
[17:37] <flocculant> dkessel: testcases will turn up - ubuntu has none at all atm :)
[18:00] <flocculant> dkessel: thanks - saw the tag change :)
[18:00] <dkessel> np :) i just thought a tag only used by us would be easier. but i guess we can filter on other criteria, too.
[18:01] <flocculant> dkessel: it's not that so much - I just don't want a long list of tags :)
[18:01] <flocculant> so xubuntu-exp wily xenial ppa usability
[18:02] <dkessel> oh i wanted to ask about that... "exp" is for "exploratory"?
[18:02] <flocculant> yea
[18:02] <flocculant> so mostly me for 3 months :D
[18:07] <flocculant> hi slickymaster
[18:07] <flocculant> work
[18:07] <flocculant> :D
[18:07] <slickymasterWork> lol
[18:07] <slickymasterWork> I saw you changed the package from ubiquity to casper flocculant
[18:08] <flocculant> yep - only because other's were the same
[18:08] <slickymasterWork> oki doke
[18:08] <flocculant> some discussion in -quality with cypermox about that problem
[18:09] <slickymasterWork> aren't you going to add yourself to it?
[18:09] <flocculant> luckily it's general and not just us
[18:09] <flocculant> I will
[18:09] <flocculant> I'll also be mailing our testers so they use the same bug
[18:11] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/10/28/%23ubuntu-quality.html#t17:50
[18:11]  * slickymasterWork reads
[18:13] <slickymasterWork> so, basically they run out of ideas to fix that
[18:13] <slickymasterWork> :P
[18:13] <flocculant> well I think that it keeps changing
[18:13] <flocculant> so they fixed something - then vb does something - broken again
[18:14] <flocculant> because it was at least letting you Enter and it would restart once
[18:15] <slickymasterWork> let us see how the all thing evolves, on their end
[18:34] <dkessel> the xubuntu-staging is not set up for xenial yet, could you fix that too, bluesabre?
[18:35] <dkessel> the PPA i mean
[18:35] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: so what's the next stage in docs.xubuntu.org/developers thingy
[18:37] <slickymasterWork> currently I'm reviewing your MP and writing the -docs build tutorial flocculant
[18:38] <slickymasterWork> then I'll start with that
[18:38]  * dkessel tries to be super annoying today
[18:38] <dkessel> docs.xubuntu.org doesn't have the wily docs :p
[18:38] <slickymasterWork> knome or pleia2 ^^^
[18:39] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: ok - well I will just make some start on what I want locally then :)
[18:40] <slickymasterWork> speaking about it flocculant, and not trying in any way to question a native speaker, but "The position of the panel, the items it contains are configurable and the Menu are all customizable. See "settings-preferences" for more information on those topics.
[18:40] <slickymasterWork> doesn't sound right in my head
[18:41] <flocculant> nothing is going to sound right in mine today
[18:42] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: what is that actually in?
[18:42] <slickymasterWork> lol, still the headache?
[18:42] <flocculant> because that sounds like the original not my change ...
[18:42] <flocculant> yea
[18:42] <slickymasterWork> it's in the desktop-guide/C/guide-desktop.xml of your MP
[18:43] <flocculant> oh meh
[18:44] <flocculant> did that all wrong when I did it the second time
[18:44] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: can you just inline comment in the MP :)
[18:44] <slickymasterWork> will do
[18:45] <flocculant> you wait till you get to offline ... you'll not be wanting to do that 1 by 1 in here ...
[18:45] <flocculant> you'll be 0_0
[18:45] <slickymasterWork> hahah
[18:46] <flocculant> basically I replaced repetition upon repetition with 3 warns or notes at the beginning
[18:46] <flocculant> and then did some more :p
[18:46] <slickymasterWork> well, you sure kept yourself busy
[18:47] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: also I obviously didn't expect to not have to re-look at things
[18:47] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: yes - I won't promise that sort of thing ever again :p
[18:47] <slickymasterWork> lol
[18:47] <drc> flocculant: quick question on the dev ppa's...it's ok to run the staging <and> the daily ppas?  They wont interfere with each other?
[18:49] <flocculant> shouldn't do :)
[18:49] <flocculant> I have them all here
[18:53] <drc> So the " 'useful' second place" option is: 1) install wily, 2) update, 3) add the 3 ppas, 4) update, 5) run as normal until something breaks?
[19:20] <flocculant> drc: yea - that's pretty much what devs are doing afaik
[19:20] <flocculant> drc: unless you've no problem with breaking and reinstalling - in which case xenial + ppa's :)
[19:21] <flocculant> mostly it's about getting as many different people to report things - so if people can use wily they might feel a bit safer
[19:24] <drc> So, just substitute "install today's daily"  for "wily"
[19:29] <flocculant> more or less :)
[19:51] <knome> slickymaster, pleia2 is the only one who can update that
[19:56] <flocculant> hi knome
[19:57] <knome> hey fki
[19:57] <knome> aölskfjglaskfjg
[19:57] <knome> flocculant,
[20:05] <flocculant> :)
[20:51] <akxwi-dave> well time for wife and wine have a good evening all
[22:07] <flocculant> bluesabre: mmm so getting parole crashing here
[22:08] <flocculant> thought I'd best cheer you up ;)
[22:12] <flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12994203/
[22:12] <flocculant> have the apport file if needed
[22:15] <knome> hahah
[22:15] <flocculant> he's going to hate me by April ...
[22:15] <flocculant> if not already :p
[22:16] <knome> i'm positive about the latter
[22:16] <knome> :P
[22:17] <flocculant> ha ha
[22:20] <flocculant> oh silly me - not a ppa can just report it :D
[22:20] <knome> hahah
[22:22] <flocculant> bug 1511136
[22:28] <flocculant> guess I should do a clean xenial install to wipe the dirty slate clean asap
[22:30] <knome> ;)
[22:31] <flocculant> qa skewing the burndown at the cycle start :p
[22:31] <knome> hmm
[22:31] <knome> that doesn't look healthy
[22:31] <knome> the lines, that is
[22:32] <flocculant> then it goes Inprogress till more or less the end of the cycle for qa
[22:32] <knome> hmm
[22:32] <knome> they are fine in ff
[22:32] <knome> not chrome
[22:32] <flocculant> oh yea - odd
[22:34]  * knome attempts a quick fix
[22:44] <knome> should be fixed for chrome
[22:44] <knome> it isnt beautiful, but...
[22:47] <flocculant> looks better than it did :)
[22:47] <flocculant> almost logarithmic before
[22:47] <knome> ;)
[22:48] <flocculant> good job it wasn't - not sure how we'd manage 1000 tasks in 6 months :D
[22:48] <knome> lol
[23:17] <Unit193> dkessel: Created it for you so it won't 404 anymore, just has -pa- and xfpm.