[12:35] <teward> cjwatson: do you need a blog post to supplement the May 20, 2020 one about bugs and DMARC complianc,e but for the code review bits?
[12:35] <teward> or is that just going to be considered "Done, no need to announce it"
[12:42] <cjwatson> teward: I probably wasn't going to, since the bugs one didn't cause any major issues that I remember
[12:43] <teward> well other than the singular whining about "Why can't you do XYZ" (and they don't understand that'll fail DMARC too)
[12:43] <teward> s/whining/concern/
[12:43] <cjwatson> Changing the name part wouldn't fail DMARC
[12:43] <teward> glad to see that the code review emails're becoming DMARC compliant though
[12:44] <cjwatson> Which is what that commenter was suggesting
[12:44] <teward> cjwatson: no, but the 'on behalf of' part is a Microsoft terminology meaning that "Sender" is one thing and "From" is another last I checked
[12:44] <cjwatson> Right, wouldn't have to use that specific wording
[12:44] <teward> which, breaks DMARC.
[12:44] <teward> at the headers level
[12:44] <teward> you can have the display name be anything, but it's still its own form of chaos :P
[12:44] <teward> still, glad to see things're working towards full compliance :)
[12:45] <teward> (now if only the lists were so compliant...)
[12:45] <cjwatson> Indeed, and thanks for the contribution there!
[12:45] <teward> *yeets self into the abyss*
[12:45] <teward> cjwatson: how much of the work did I do but not complete?  I saw your note that it was mostly based on my work and you fixed tests
[12:45] <cjwatson> If you've been paying close attention you may have noticed that we have some DKIM signing now too
[12:45] <teward> cjwatson: semi-close attention, been a little innundated at FT job with someone DoSing an application unintentionally
[12:45] <teward> (and breaking things hard)
[12:46] <teward> cjwatson: DKIM signing is fun though too xD
[12:46] <teward> well on the way to better email integrity (and DMARC!)
[12:46] <cjwatson> I tidied up headers a bit from your branch, but otherwise it was mostly fixing tests
[12:46] <cjwatson> I thought it best to put the user's display name back in
[12:46] <teward> makes sense to me.
[12:47] <teward> yeah my branch was unclean :P
[12:47] <cjwatson> The way it works now is that any email sent by LP with From: @launchpad.net or @*.launchpad.net should be DKIM-signed
[12:47] <cjwatson> (That was due to IS rather than me)
[12:48] <cjwatson> So there'll still be cases where we send with non-launchpad.net From:, but bugs and code review accounted for the vast majority of it I think
[14:25] <cjwatson> Looks like some kind of librarian outage, investigating
[14:27] <cjwatson> ceph backend seems to be down
[15:18] <cjwatson> Ceph is back, librarian is working fine again
[17:08] <sarnold> cjwatson: excellent py2 -> py3 blogpost :) thanks
[21:30] <cjwatson> sarnold: yw :)
[23:54] <teward> can I have a link to this said blog post?  I don't follow everyone unfortuantely :P
[23:54] <sarnold> teward: heya :) https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cjwatson/blog/lp-python3.html


[06:29] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[06:30] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:38] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:51] <koza> o/
[06:54] <duflu> Hi koza, seb128
[06:57] <seb128> hey duflu koza
[06:57] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:58] <jibel> morning
[06:59] <duflu> Hi jibel
[06:59] <jibel> Hi duflu
[07:15] <didrocks> good morning
[07:17] <seb128> lut didrocks
[07:18] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:32] <GunnarHj> seb128, oSoMoN: Good morning! Is /etc/locale.conf important enough on the Ubuntu desktop to block the suggested fix of bug #1662031? The file does not even exist on my machine...
[07:33] <duflu> Hey didrocks
[07:33] <seb128> hey GunnarHj
[07:34] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, I didn't say that bug/file was important, was just giving context on why the function was added
[07:34] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Are you convenient with disabling it?
[07:36] <seb128> GunnarHj, I would prefer for somebody to understand why it's there before removing it, just to make sure we don't create other problems, but I think it's an important bug to fix so yes we should land your version at least (or a better fix maybe if we manage to fully understand the issue and how the behaviour should be changed)
[07:39] <GunnarHj> seb128: I can add that I studied booting with different variants of /etc/default/locale. It always has LANG, but I for instance added LC_TIME, and found that the latter resulted in the correct date format on the login screen. So I for one am not able to see any problems.
[07:39] <seb128> GunnarHj, your change is probably fine for artful but it's not an upstreamable solution, we need something that works on any distro
[07:40] <GunnarHj> seb128: Why? We are solving an Ubuntu specific issue. Or is anybody else using ~/.pam_environment the way we do?
[07:40] <seb128> GunnarHj, good question, I don't know
[07:41] <seb128> GunnarHj, I'm just uncomfortable removing code without understanding why it's there
[07:41] <GunnarHj> seb128: AFAIK it's Ubuntu only.
[07:41] <seb128> that code? no it's upstream, see the commit in the bug I pointed
[07:42] <GunnarHj> seb128: I meant ~/.pam_environment
[07:42] <seb128> not in debian?
[07:42] <GunnarHj> seb128: Nope.
[07:42] <seb128> k
[07:42] <seb128> well it doesn't change the fact that we could have code that works in Ubuntu and upstream/other distributions
[07:43] <seb128> if the logic is smart enough to tell what condition should lead to what choices
[07:43] <GunnarHj> seb128: Unless our patches in accountsservice have been upstreamed to Debian...
[07:44] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, speaking of accountsservice, I’ve filed bug #1722151
[07:45] <GunnarHj> seb128: The overall problem here is that Ubuntu established a model for handling language/locale settings, which works fine on all the flavors, while GNOME does it their way. So we have patches in a few packages to make it work our way.
[07:45] <oSoMoN> ah, seeing you commented on it already
[07:45] <andyrock> good morning!
[07:45] <oSoMoN> good morning andyrock
[07:46] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: I did. I'm kind of hesitating to fix something which is not broken. ;)
[07:46] <seb128> lut oSoMoN
[07:47] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:47] <seb128> oSoMoN, you should stop working during the nights!
[07:47] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, yes, it doesn't appear to be broken, but still incorrect according to documentation, let me look into the pam code again to double check
[07:48] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Great if you do. I had a look, but that code is over my head.
[07:48] <oSoMoN> seb128, I hate to leave things unfinished :)
[07:48] <seb128> hehe
[07:53] <GunnarHj> seb128: Just checked accountsservice in Debian. They do have our patches in the source, but they don't apply them. So yes, it's indeed Ubuntu only.
[07:53] <GunnarHj> seb128: I.e. the use of ~/.pam_environment the way we do.
[07:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, I don't understand what you are trying to get at there
[07:54] <GunnarHj> seb128: You mentioned the need to upstream the fix, and I just making sure that there is no such need.
[07:55] <seb128> GunnarHj, well if the issue is that overrides are done in the wrong order when using pam there might still be a flaw in the upstream code logic even if other distros don't use pam to set languages atm
[07:56] <seb128> the fact that they are not impacted doesn't mean the code is right
[07:56] <GunnarHj> seb128: True.
[07:57] <GunnarHj> seb128: Maybe use the fix in 17.10, and then discuss it with upstream afterwards?
[07:58] <seb128> GunnarHj, wfm, or maybe we can understand it fully and fix it correctly this week
[07:58] <seb128> but meanwhile I'm fine landing your fix if we think that's the best option
[07:59] <seb128> oSoMoN, what do you think? do you understand the issue fully now?
[08:02] <seb128> brb, changing location
[08:09] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, so maybe it's just a matter of making sure that set_up_session_language() is called before pam_env sets up the environment?
[08:11] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Possibly. That would allow for an upstreamable solution, for the case the function isn't obsolete.
[08:12] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, I'm looking into the order in which things are done in gdm
[08:18] <oSoMoN> seb128, I was saying earlier to Gunnar,  maybe it's just a matter of making sure that set_up_session_language() is called before pam_env sets up the environment?
[08:18] <seb128> oSoMoN, I think that would be something along those lines yes
[08:19] <oSoMoN> trying to figure that out, async code is hard to read :/
[08:19] <oSoMoN> or my brain is too synchronous
[08:19] <seb128> indeed :/
[08:22] <GunnarHj> seb128, oSoMoN: You can also argue that since the set_up_session_language() function is apparently run after PAM has read /etc/default/locale and ~/.pam_environment, it's obviously redundant.
[08:25] <GunnarHj> seb128, oSoMoN: OTOH I can't explain why the ~/.pam_environment values are not reflected in g_listenv().
[10:38] <andyrock> seb128: hey regarding the fix gnome-shell crash fix I proposed upstream they want to solve the issue at a different level
[10:38] <andyrock> so in a nutshell the problem is that a NaN is generated
[10:38] <andyrock> I'm avoid the crash if NaN is detected
[10:38] <andyrock> they want to know why that NaN is generated
[10:39] <andyrock> my plan is to build a ppa that will make gnome-shell crash as soon as the NaN is generated
[10:39] <andyrock> hopefully someone will be willing to install the ppa and send us the crash report
[10:39] <andyrock> this will take some time, so we might need to sru it
[11:18] <seb128> andyrock, hey
[11:18] <seb128> andyrock, maybe we could distro patch your workaround/solution for the release though?
[11:18] <seb128> but yeah, having the debug info would be useful
[11:25] <andyrock> distro patch should be possible and should not create any type of problem
[11:26] <seb128> andyrock, can you add your patch to the launchpad bug with a comment saying that?
[11:26] <andyrock> sure
[11:28] <seb128> thanks
[11:38] <duflu> didrocks, in case upstream doesn't wake up in time you may like to distro-patch this: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645433#c38
[11:38] <duflu> But I'm done and have to run
[11:41] <ricotz> hey desktopers
[11:42] <seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
[11:42] <ricotz> I recently enabled the modern-style extension in rhythmbox which tends to crash :(
[11:43] <seb128> what is "modern-style"?
[11:43] <ricotz> hey seb128, good :), and you?
[11:43] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[11:43] <ricotz> the alternative-view
[11:44] <seb128> you mean alternative-toolbar?
[11:44] <ricotz> ah that is what it is called (just seeing the german title here)
[11:45] <seb128> are you sure the issues are due to it? do you have a backtrace/report?
[11:45] <seb128> what do you do to trigger the bugs?
[11:45] <ricotz> I assume this extension is enabled by default now?
[11:46] <andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1714542/comments/11
[11:47] <seb128> andyrock, thanks
[11:47] <seb128> ricotz, correct
[11:47] <ricotz> seb128, didn't have time to investigate it yet, it crashes in "gtk_view_column" something, didn't saw this issue before
[11:49] <seb128> ricotz, well, if you have specific action to trigger the segfault that would be useful to know which ones, nobody reported that problem before
[11:50] <ricotz> seb128, I think it is a search, followed by double-clicking on a song
[11:54] <ricotz> seb128, https://paste.debian.net/989778/
[11:58] <seb128> ricotz, thanks, I can't reproduce by filtering and double clicking a result and there is no launchpad report matching it seems
[12:06] <didrocks> ricotz: maybe try to report against https://github.com/fossfreedom/alternative-toolbar/issues? We got some crashes before, but they got fixed with their latest release
[12:06] <didrocks> (which debian and us have)
[12:07] <popey> Where would I file a bug where clicking on a notification of a file change in 17.10 will open multiple nautilus windows (one per notification), rather than just one?
[12:07] <didrocks> seb128: do you want me to handle andyrock's patch? I have another upstream potential fix we might want
[12:07] <didrocks> popey: "notification of a file change"? Not sure what you mean
[12:08] <seb128> didrocks, yes please, thanks
[12:08] <didrocks> We have notification when plugging a mpt device, or network share available
[12:08] <didrocks> seb128: will do! :)
[12:08] <seb128> thx
[12:08] <popey> didrocks: e.g. dropbox lets me know when someone changes a file, if that file is changed multiple times, i see one notification, but when i click it, I get lots of nautilus
[12:09] <seb128> sounds like a dropbox bug?
[12:09] <seb128> not replacing the notification but stacking new ones?
[12:09] <didrocks> popey: ah, interesting… One question, if you don't click on one notification, and you get the file changed again, do you get another notification or was the previous one replaced?
[12:09] <didrocks> sounds like seb128 is getting at the same point than I am :)
[12:10] <popey> only one notification is seen
[12:10] <didrocks> yeah, I think popey wants gnome-shell to remember which nautilus window was opened due to that action and have that one reused
[12:10] <seb128> because the shell probably merge them
[12:11] <didrocks> even if you click on each change
[12:11] <popey> hang on...
[12:11] <popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6HPg1oer/The%20notification%20(there%20are%20multiple%20behind%20this)
[12:11] <popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/OL6smIvV/result%20when%20i%20click%20it
[12:12] <didrocks> you clicked on only ONE notification, correct to get that stack?
[12:12] <popey> (that file is updated hourly, so after 12 hours there's 12 notifications, and if I click it, I get 12 nautilus windows)
[12:12] <popey> there is only one notification
[12:12] <popey> so yes, I can only click on one
[12:12] <didrocks> yeah, I think seb128 is right, the shell merges them
[12:12] <didrocks> so dropbox issue
[12:12] <popey> ok
[12:12] <popey> thanks
[12:12] <didrocks> popey: you can tell them they should use the "replace" notification functionality, rather than appending
[12:12] <didrocks> yw
[12:14] <didrocks> andyrock: do you mind doing a DEP3 format patch?
[12:14] <didrocks> andyrock: I know some release team member rejecting uploads otherwise
[12:14] <didrocks> (just state there that it's a temporary hack/fix)
[12:15] <andyrock> didrocks: sure
[12:15] <didrocks> andyrock: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/70_allow_sound_above_100.patch if you want an excellent (of course ;)) example :p
[12:17] <popey> Bug reported on dropbox - successfully disappeared into the aether.
[12:19] <seb128> popey, if you get a similar issue with something opensource feel free to nag us again about it
[12:19] <popey> hmm, will do, not sure I can easily reproduce with something open, but will try! :D
[12:19] <ricotz> seb128, didrocks, regarding rhythmbox, this doesn't look like fun to debug, running in gdb and clearing buffers/caches make it more reproducible -- there is also a critical before the crash "Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_tree_view_update_button_position: assertion 'column_el != NULL' failed"
[12:19] <popey> (pretty niche case tbh)
[12:21] <didrocks> ricotz: I guess trying to print the column_el to see what's up with it at first…
[12:22] <seb128> ricotz, so you can reproduce pretty reliably? do you click on the search icon and then type something and then double click a result? do you have several matches? is your UI layout the default one?
[12:23] <Laney> morning
[12:23] <seb128> good morning Laney!
[12:23] <didrocks> hey hey Laney
[12:23] <seb128> how was your trip? didn't wake up too early today?
[12:24] <didrocks> (et jetlag? ;))
[12:24] <didrocks> and*
[12:24] <ricotz> seb128, this profile went through several upgrades, so I wouldn't expect it to be the current default, I assume it gets triggered easier with a lot of files and while it is processing them
[12:25] <seb128> ricotz, oh, could be, I don't have many there so filtering is done when I click
[12:25] <Laney> hmmmmmmmmmm
[12:26] <Laney> yeah not too bad, this way is always easier for me anyway
[12:26] <ricotz> didrocks, not sure how to get there while it is burried in python-gi
[12:27] <andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/bWsqLRmd/
[12:27] <andyrock> didrocks: ^^^ is this beter?
[12:27] <andyrock> *better
[12:27] <didrocks> andyrock: perfect! Thanks :)
[12:28] <andyrock> do you want me to add a comment on the bug or it's fine here?
[12:31] <didrocks> andyrock: that's fine I think, I'll ensure the changelog mentions it
[12:34] <andyrock> kk
[13:41] <jbicha> Laney: are you working on the gdm3 update for artful?
[13:41] <jbicha> good morning
[14:02] <tkamppeter> xnox, hi
[14:49] <Laney> hi jbicha
[14:49] <Laney> not that easy this week, feel free
[14:50] <jbicha> Laney: we agreed to drop gdm3's 95_hide_x11_sessions_with_nvidia_kms.patch right?
[14:51] <Laney> tseliot says that's not needed any more
[14:52] <tseliot> Laney: yes, although I managed to reproduce the problem again, but I think the cause is somewhere in the nvidia packages, not in the driver itself, or in gdm
[14:55] <jbicha> tseliot: it sounds like we should keep the patch for now then?
[14:55] <Laney> you two can work it out
[14:56] <tseliot> jbicha: if users install the driver using the nvidia installer, they won't be able to reproduce the problem. I think we can drop it. I'll probably SRU the fix when I find out
[14:57] <jbicha> tseliot: but things won't work right if they use 'Additional Drivers' now?
[14:58] <tseliot> jbicha: if they use 'Additional Drivers', KMS will be disabled by default, so users won't be able to reproduce the problem
[15:00] <jbicha> so it might cause problems for people who force-enable KMS?
[15:01] <tseliot> jbicha: yes, when they do that, they simply won't be able to access the X11 session. The Wayland session will work
[15:01] <jbicha> and xwayland won't work for them, right?
[15:01] <tseliot> correct
[15:02] <Trevinho> Hola chicos
[15:02] <jbicha> ok, since we don't recommend users do all that, I think it sounds fine to do what you propose and drop the gdm patch
[15:02] <tseliot> jbicha: that's good. Laney ^
[15:03]  * Laney nods
[15:09] <andyrock> *chic@s
[15:10] <andyrock> Trevinho: ^^^
[15:10] <andyrock> there are girls here too :D
[15:14] <Trevinho> andyrock: oh... well.... #stilllearning
[15:18] <Laney> O_O
[15:20] <tsimonq2> (necesitamos más chicas, no?)
[15:22] <willcooke> seb128, andyrock - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1716160  Anything we can do with that before release?
[15:24] <andyrock> I don't have a multi monitor with me right now to fix it. I can get one in a couple of days. What we can do is to revert the distro patch that causes it
[15:26] <andyrock> but then we lose the ability to allow to chose what to do depending if AC is connected
[15:27] <willcooke> I gotta go to a meeting.  andyrock could you discuss with Seb
[15:28] <andyrock> sure
[15:30] <andyrock> seb128: so I have another monitor with me but I need an adaptor. I need to order one and this can take few days. Otherwise if someone wants to work on this...
[15:34] <jbicha> andyrock: does that even work in artful? (different behavior if AC is connected)
[15:37] <andyrock> jbicha: there is a broken distro patch that adds two hidden settings to do that
[15:39] <andyrock> we agreed with seb128 to fix the patch but I was not able to complete the fix in NY
[15:39] <jbicha> oh ok, does the patch work in Unity?
[15:40] <andyrock> and I recently moved in a different Italian city and I left the monitor in the old flat
[15:40] <andyrock> *former
[15:40] <andyrock> with unity-settings-daemon yes
[15:40] <andyrock> not with gnome-settings-daemon
[15:41] <andyrock> I need to completely rewrite it
[15:41] <jbicha> I wonder if we can convince the new gsd maintainers to take the patch
[15:41] <andyrock> I was about to propose the same
[15:41] <andyrock> I guess so
[15:42] <jbicha> I've had user requests for at least Tweaks to support that
[15:42] <andyrock> It's something useful that makes sense
[15:43] <andyrock> let's wait for seb128 to decide on what to do
[15:56] <popey> Is there a plan to ship Firefox 56.0.1 in 17.10? (current up to date 17.10 has 56.0.
[15:57] <popey> (the reason I ask is because first launch it pops up a banner telling me to update, and takes me to upstream mozilla to do that, which will be confusing for users I imagine)
[15:57] <popey> Perhaps we need to disable the upstream banner (it's on their website, not an internal update mechanism)
[16:01] <didrocks> oSoMoN: ^
[16:02] <popey> Here's a video showing how I imagine this works for a normal user:- https://youtu.be/2v35Aw-f7DI
[16:02] <popey> (still processing so not in HD yet) :D
[16:02] <popey> (lemme know if you need a bug filed)
[16:04]  * didrocks at least knows popey have seen the "extract" button on top thanks to our theme fix :)
[16:04] <ricotz> popey, hi, I don't see any linux related changes in ff 56.0.1
[16:04] <popey> ricotz: hey, interesting. I guess the problem here is users get slapped in the face with a banner from mozilla on first run (dunno if it happens on subsequent runs)
[16:04] <didrocks> I guess the issue is more about the banner popup than knowing/not knowing there is anything for linux in .1
[16:05] <popey> exactly
[16:05] <popey> didrocks: I actually did this twice, so only found the extract button _because_ you coloured it. My brain can't find buttons in headerbars yet
[16:06] <didrocks> ahah, I think it will come soon :) but yeah, at least, that give a hint (we just followed upstream btw who coloured it as well)
[16:06] <popey> Sweet!
[16:07] <popey> didrocks: you may have noticed my mouse went to the top left to close the about window at ~18 seconds in ;)
[16:08] <didrocks> oh, I didn't :)
[16:08] <didrocks> you are knowing on Xorg from what I see
[16:08] <didrocks> running*
[16:08] <didrocks> eod soon, can't type :p
[16:08] <popey> nope
[16:08] <didrocks> hum
[16:08] <didrocks> so…
[16:08] <didrocks> what did you use to record the video?
[16:08]  * didrocks puzzled
[16:08] <popey> :D
[16:09] <didrocks> the video is more than 30s and there isn't the built-in video icon from G-S
[16:09] <didrocks> so, my guess is
[16:09] <didrocks> VM!
[16:09] <didrocks> and you recorded from the outside
[16:09] <popey> X
[16:09] <popey> Try again
[16:09] <didrocks> ohhhh, I was so sure
[16:09] <didrocks> an extension?
[16:09] <popey> XX
[16:09] <popey> Last try!
[16:09] <didrocks> nooooo
[16:09] <ricotz> popey, ok, sounds like this would solve the version check -- while it is hard to get into touch with Chris not sure he wants to do another update
[16:09] <didrocks> some popey's magic?
[16:09] <didrocks> (can't be XXX on that one)
[16:10] <popey> didrocks: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magewell-XI100DUSB-HDMI-Video-Capture-Dongle/dp/B00I16VQOY
[16:10] <didrocks> seriously… Mr is equipped :)
[16:10] <popey> Pixel perfect 60fps 1080p using ffmpeg :)
[16:10] <didrocks> would have never guessed
[16:10] <popey> Honestly, it's the only way to get reliable screen capture on Linux.
[16:10] <popey> ricotz: Chris Coulson?
[16:11] <ricotz> popey, yes
[16:11] <popey> So really, I think a bug is needed now, right?
[16:11] <ricotz> I fear so
[16:11] <popey> kk thanks for the help guys!
[16:13] <popey> didrocks: XXX
[16:13] <popey> :0
[16:13] <jbicha> if you find Chris, could you ping him about LP: #1713486 ?
[16:13] <didrocks> popey: you won :)
[16:13] <didrocks> I amdit it
[16:13] <didrocks> admit*
[16:13] <popey> ;)
[16:31] <popey> jbicha:
[16:31] <popey> passed on
[16:36] <tseliot> seb128: just FYI I have uploaded a new nvidia-prime and nvidia-settings for LP: #1721394
[17:10] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: I'm going to fix that script which writes to ~/.pam_environment. Are you still trying to figure out a more elegant way to fix the gdm issue than just disabling the function?
[17:11] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, I’ve put that task on hold for today, will continue looking into it tomorrow
[17:11] <oSoMoN> in the meantime I think we should go with your patch
[17:12] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Ok, then I know.
[17:12] <GunnarHj> seb128: ^
[17:50] <seb128> tseliot, thanks
[17:51] <tseliot> yw
[17:51] <seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, go with your change, we can iterate later if needed
[17:52] <seb128> andyrock, sorry I shifted my hours earlier today, let's talk about that tomorrow but what is the patch to drop? I can try here since I get the issue
[18:11] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Will you merge/upload? Also, I stumbled on the related bug #1722002. Would be great if you could review that too.
[18:21] <fossfreedom> hi all - if I create a properly formatted patch for this crashing issue in gnome-shell and budgie do you think it can be added to mutter before release ? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788666
[18:22] <jbicha> fossfreedom: yes, but I'd like to see the patch accepted upstream first
[18:24] <fossfreedom> jbicha, thanks - anyone you know that can be gently nudged to review?
[18:24] <jbicha> you can ask in #gnome-shell on irc.gnome.org
[18:25] <fossfreedom> ok
[18:31] <andyrock> seb128: i was about to have dinner. I will send you the name of the patch in half an hour
[18:49] <seb128> GunnarHj, it would be nice if you could describe a real world issue for the gsettings/region one
[18:50] <seb128> andyrock, enjoy and thanks
[18:53] <GunnarHj> seb128: That would be that there is a "region" value, set by g-c-c, and the user later uses Language Support (which does not mess with gsettings) to change the regional format.
[18:53] <seb128> GunnarHj, would be nice to add a "steps the user can do to get the issue" to the bug
[18:53] <seb128> on that night need to wrap
[18:53] <seb128> have a good night desktopers
[18:54] <GunnarHj> seb128: Will do. Good night!
[18:54] <seb128> thanks
[20:43] <Laney> Trevinho: so coming back to that unity...
[20:43] <Laney> ...everyone that upgrades to it now will have their gnome scaling settings reset to defaults?
[20:46] <Trevinho> Laney: yes, since gnome will calculate it again
[20:47] <Trevinho> With some optimal™ algorithm
[20:47] <Laney> but they might have it as they like it?
[20:56] <Laney> not sure what the motivation for doing that is
[20:56]  * Laney is worried
[21:09] <jackpot51> I have an upstream fix that could be applied pretty easily: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788741
[21:16] <jbicha> jackpot51: that's already being taken care of :) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.26.1-0ubuntu2
[21:17] <jackpot51> Where is it? in Proposed?
[21:18] <jbicha> yes
[21:18] <jbicha> almost, it just finished building!
[21:18] <jackpot51> Cool!
[22:24] <Trevinho> Laney: we can write some migration scripts for porting the setting in unity to gnome, but not yet, since that will need the fractional scaling to work properly
[22:24] <Trevinho> it's all in my plan though


[09:43] <jibel> rbalint, hi, verification of bug 1732185 failed. It still does not work with sudo.
[09:44] <juliank> jibel: Ugh, I almost forgot about your ubuntu-release-upgrader MP again.
[09:47] <jibel> juliank, np
[09:47] <juliank> I was just about to upload when I remembered
[09:48] <juliank> well, test suite is failing anyway :D
[09:48] <juliank> ../DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeFetcherKDE.py:34: 'PyQt5.QtCore.QUrl' imported but unused
[09:48] <juliank> ../DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeFetcherKDE.py:34: 'PyQt5.QtCore.pyqtSlot' imported but unused
[09:48] <juliank>
[09:48] <juliank> ugh
[09:50] <juliank> jibel: I'll look at it in a few minutes and include it in the upload if it looks ok
[09:50]  * juliank just does a few message improvements otherwise
[09:55] <jibel> juliank, okay, thanks. then i'll prepare the sru
[09:58] <juliank> jibel: I don't see how you could reasonably prepare an SRU while the other one is failed.
[09:58] <juliank> I mean sure, you could drop the other one, but do we want that?
[09:59] <juliank> maybe it's correct though and the update-manager sru failed?
[09:59] <jibel> juliank, no we don't want that.
[09:59]  * juliank does not know
[09:59] <jibel> we can publish update-manager but not ubuntu-release-upgrader. There is a patch missing in the diff.
[10:00] <juliank> right
[10:01] <juliank> so you want to update the u-r-u patch for that bug too?
[10:11] <Caribou> doko: or anyone who can answer, I see that gcc 7.3 which includes retpoline has built for bionic; what are the plans for its availability on the LTS (mostly Xenial) ?
[10:12] <jibel> juliank, no lets keep these fixes separated.
[10:21] <cking> cjwatson, do you mind giving fwts a priority boost for amd64 and i386 builds in the https://launchpad.net/~firmware-testing-team/+archive/ubuntu/ppa-fwts-unstable-crack/+packages  - we're trying to get fwts out by EOD and it's getting nowhere in the PPA because of the low priority we gave it
[10:27] <doko> Caribou: for now these are handled by the security team
[10:27] <Caribou> doko: ah ok. thanks!
[10:28] <doko> bionic-proposed has these for gcc-7
[10:30] <Caribou> yep, saw that, hence my question
[10:35] <juliank> jibel: I thought your MP looked fine and merged it, but it turns out it does break the test suite.
[10:35] <jibel> juliank, hmm, i'll have a look
[10:35] <jibel> thanks
[10:38] <juliank> jibel: failure https://paste.ubuntu.com/26463412/
[10:44] <cjwatson> cking: done
[10:50] <cking> cjwatson, thanks! much appreciate
[10:50] <cking> d
[11:22] <doko> what did change that ruby now can be demoted to universe?
[11:31] <coolfish> Hi, what is the (default?) size (RAM/memory) of the autopkgtest VMs. I'm asking, because http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/g/ganeti fails for bionic/18.04. I've verified, that the autopkgtest completes successful on a 4GB machine (without swap). What should I do to request more memory for the autopkgtest VMs?
[11:32] <doko> Laney: ^^^
[11:35] <Laney> coolfish: you get 1536MB ram and 1 CPU by default
[11:37] <Laney> there's a small list of 'big' packages that ganeti could probably be added to
[11:37] <juliank> doko: I'll have a look at the lvm2 merge if you don't mind (you're last uploader) [and nacc, you did the last merge]
[11:38] <juliank> I even use lvm2 so that's a bonus :)
[11:39] <doko> juliank: feel free to steal any merge ... I'll be back on Monday
[11:40] <juliank> might just do 2.02.177-0ubuntu1 even
[11:47] <coolfish> Laney: thanks... ATM I want to make sure, that ganeti moves from proposed to release, just before freeze of 18.04. Is there something I can do to get ganeti in that list of 'big' packages? I'm just a "user", no dev.
[11:50] <Laney> I did it
[11:50] <Laney> It should be fine, but there's a big queue so we need to be patient now
[11:53] <coolfish> Laney: thanks a lot! I'll be patient :-)
[12:59] <juliank> cjwatson: I accidentally pushed a new filtering feature for MoM html outputs directly to the main branch. I can't really run the script locally. It's http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/revision/307. I can revert that now and do a merge proposal, or we can just see if it works, I don't know.
[12:59] <juliank> I know the JavaScript html stuff works
[12:59] <juliank> but I might have messed up the inclusion in Python somewhere
[12:59] <juliank> ah I did
[13:00] <juliank> Once that's merged we get query URIs like https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html?query=foundations-bugs&showProposed=false&showMergeNeeded=true
[13:01] <juliank> and your browser only shows the non-gray rows that contain foundations-bugs in them
[13:01] <juliank> (as an example)
[13:21] <juliank> tracked in https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/merge-o-matic/javascript-query/+merge/336671 now
[13:21] <cjwatson> juliank: I'm basically OK with that sort of thing.  (Minor point: you might want to use textwrap.dedent to make the inclusion in Python a bit more readable: I find blocks of triple-quoted text are easier to read when they're indented as a Python block.)
[13:22] <juliank> I reverted the broken commit for now, and opened the merge proposal so we can fix it :)
[13:22] <juliank> cjwatson: Good point
[13:22] <juliank> cjwatson: I just did what the other large block at the bottom did :)
[13:25] <juliank> cjwatson: ugh, I once again pushed to the wrong location
[13:26] <juliank> Let's drop them
[13:27] <juliank> why is it pushing by default there? I don't know
[13:27] <cjwatson> "bzr info" will tell you more details
[13:28] <juliank> I did push --remember to my branch now
[13:29] <juliank> cjwatson: I thought about hiding the filters on browsers without javascript. but I'm not sure if that makes sense - people without JS won't ever discover them
[13:30] <juliank> In any case, this is going to be a subtle improvement for those of us who already had bookmarklets, and hopefully a huge improvement for others :)
[13:31] <cjwatson> reviewed
[13:36] <juliank> cjwatson: Thanks. I adjusted the == => [13:40] <cjwatson> juliank: Merged and deployed, thanks.  You may want to do the same to manual-status.py at some point (which might suggest that this stuff should be in a common file somewhere).
[13:41] <juliank> cjwatson: I looked at manual but the output is so short that it does not make that much sense there :)
[13:42] <cjwatson> OK :)
[13:46] <juliank> I have an announcement written, but I'll wait for the roll out
[13:47] <juliank> s/roll out/page rebuild/
[13:50] <arunkumar413> Hi All, I just built opencv. Can you please help me create a deb file
[13:54] <juliank> arunkumar413: that's not really how it works.
[13:54] <juliank> oh well
[16:50] <juliank> cjwatson: I pushed a tiny change in merge-o-matic revision 310 to make the filter case insensitive, would be great if you could roll it out :)
[16:51] <juliank> now you can search your own name if you like and case does not matter :D
[16:53] <juliank> I should probably also teach it to search the comment column
[16:53] <juliank> that's more difficult apparently
[16:54] <cjwatson> juliank: deployed
[16:54] <juliank> thanks :)
[17:02] <nacc> juliank: i've got that merge assigned to me already
[17:02] <nacc> juliank: if you did it, that's fine
[17:03] <nacc> juliank: (lvm2)
[17:03] <juliank> nacc: I already did, yeah.
[17:03] <nacc> juliank: did you close LP: #1741986
[17:03] <nacc> juliank: on merges, please check all open bugs :)
[17:03] <juliank> I forgot :(
[17:05] <nacc> juliank: np, can you mark that as fix released with the right version in a comment?
[17:05] <nacc> juliank: i had a few users waiting for that merge to come through from #ubuntu/#ubuntu-server
[17:05] <juliank> nacc: It's in proposed right now, so it's only committed
[17:05] <nacc> juliank: or committed and then released when it does :)
[17:06] <juliank> nacc: I added it to my list
[17:06] <nacc> juliank: thanks!
[17:06] <nacc> i'll remove it from mine :)
[17:08] <juliank> nacc: I'm mostly going by the MoM list to figure out what to merge, so it would be good to add a link to a bug there or a comment so I don't accidentally merge stuff if I don't hear back :)
[17:09] <juliank> Even if I had not forgotten to look at bug reports, I'd have done that after finishing the merge
[17:09] <nacc> juliank: sure, i just expect more than 6 hours notice to respond :)
[17:09] <nacc> (esp. when it's an overnight ping )
[17:09] <juliank> right.
[17:10] <nacc> juliank: but it's nont a big deal by any means
[17:11] <juliank> timezones are hard
[17:11] <nacc> juliank: yep :)
[18:54] <sforshee> doko: I think the binutils in bionic-proposed is breaking our arm64 kernel builds - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/354788441/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-arm64.linux_4.14.0-17.20_BUILDING.txt.gz
[22:55] <rangergord> Hi. I asked a question over the past 3 days in #ubuntu, but it appears to be too advanced and no one knows of a fix. My issue is described clearly here : https://askubuntu.com/questions/999915/getting-ubuntu-gui-apps-running-under-windows-10s-wsl-looking-better-on-hi-dpi . As a final attempt, I figured I'd come here in case a developer with broader than average understanding of how GUI
[22:55] <rangergord> apps are drawn can advise me on how I can fix this. If I'm given an answer, I will post it to the communities and we can solve the problem for other users.
[22:59] <nacc> rangergord: wouldn't that be a question for WSL folks?
[22:59] <nacc> or in vcxsrv
[22:59] <nacc> !ubuwin
[22:59] <rangergord> nacc: this is explicitly not supported by WSL. The people using Ubuntu GUI are flying on their own.
[22:59] <nacc> makes it quite clear it's not really supported by Ubuntu either
[23:00] <nacc> rangergord: and this channel is for development of ubuntu itself
[23:00] <rangergord> nacc: sometimes even though something isn't supported, tinkerers can make things work. The fact that people are even running Ubuntu GUI apps is evidence of this. Let's not limit ourselves by what Microsoft wants.
[23:00] <sarnold> rangergord: maybe try a bug report at https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues ?
[23:01] <nacc> rangergord: right, so becuase microsoft doesn't support it, you won't ask them; but becuase ubuntu won't support it, you will ask them?
[23:01] <nacc> seems a wee bit inconsistent
[23:02] <rangergord> nacc: Ubuntu is a community I'm part of, by helping people in chatrooms, and occasional donations. It's more likely to support the spirit of "you're not supposed to do this, BUT". The lone MS dev on github has stated GUIs are not supported. In this case, I am not asking for developers to code something, but just to give me an idea like "have you tried changing this setting to X, and this
[23:02] <rangergord> one to Y"
[23:02] <rangergord> I don't mean to offend you by making it seem like your time is worthless
[23:02] <rangergord> I'll drop it if that's how you feel
[23:04] <nacc> rangergord: i have no idea how WSL does GUI, sorry
[23:04] <rangergord> allright, no worries
[23:04] <nacc> rangergord: but afaict, this is definitely not the channel for it (if someone disagrees, please correct me)
[23:04] <juliank> It is not.
[23:05] <juliank> I'd figure out where the vcxsrv people hide and talk to them
[23:05] <juliank> that should be more useful.
[23:06] <juliank> this is likely _not_ related to WSL at all - you'd have the same effect running an X11 app remotely on your vcxsrv
[23:06] <rangergord> juliank: it's actually like that with all X servers I tried . vcxsrv is considered to be the one with "DPI support", and the most recommended, that's why I only mentioned that one on AskUbuntu. There's already a vcxsrv ticket from 2016 asking them to support hi-DPI, with no reply. It's a single dev that never posts on tickets. (not criticising him/her)
[23:08] <rangergord> juliank: I tend to think so too, that's why I'm asking in Linux channels. Anyway, it's OK if you have no other suggestions. Have a good evening.
[23:09] <juliank> You could of course also ask in some xorg channels or something
[23:09] <juliank> I'm not sure how upstream the win support is
[23:09] <rangergord> hey, that's a good idea!
[23:09]  * juliank goes /away now. it's midnight :D
[23:10] <rangergord> good night
[23:12] <sunweaver> rangergord: you can try to get hold of mikedep333 on #x2go.
[23:12] <sunweaver> !x2go
[23:12] <sunweaver> he maintains VcXsrv for X2Go on Windows and might know something...
[23:13] <rangergord> cheers sunweaver
[23:14] <rangergord> before I approach him I'll remove WSL from the equation (to simplify the problem space), by confirming the issue happens with native Ubuntu installs as well
[23:15] <rangergord> I think mentioning WSL turns people off
[23:15] <sunweaver> VcXsrv is definitely the best freely available X server these days.
[23:16] <Unit193> Heh, well ##windows-wsl only has 3 people,so that's not likely to help much.
[23:16] <sarnold> not so much turns people off as a "huh I forgot that exists"  :)
[23:19] <rangergord> I'm still not sure why you guys helped MS do it
[23:20] <sarnold> I assume a healthy mixture of (a) because it can be done (b) because it'd share the ubuntu love with more people   :)
[23:22] <rangergord> I think to convert some people, getting the GUIs working would be a good idea. Cause the sort of people who will only run bash on Windows, they can already use Ubuntu on their own. In my case it's because it's a gaming computer and my choices are dual booting or using a VM to run Ubuntu. I do the latter, but WSL seems more convenient.
[23:23] <rangergord> I install Ubuntu natively on casual PCs like my relatives' desktops and such, and on non-gaming laptop
[23:24] <rangergord> on that note, I hope VFIO / GPU passthrough is an opening to allow Linux to convert Windows gamers
[23:25] <rangergord> it's still rough right now but maybe 3 years from now?
[23:26] <wxl> that's pretty much the only hurdle it seems XD
[23:30] <doko__> sforshee: I didn't see that in my test rebuild: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/rebuilds/test-rebuild-20171220-binutils-bionic.html
[23:30] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888531 I think do ko was asking about this the other day.
[23:31] <Unit193> ...I might be on the wrong network for where he asked though.


[00:42] <valorie> ahoneybun, apachelogger: you are asking the wrong person about export and tarballs!
[00:42]  * valorie knows nothing of such things
[00:44] <valorie> however, I can ask the KDE-Doc people to run the script and turn our docs into docbook when we are satisfied with 1. the text, 2. the images, and 3. the translations
[02:35] <ahoneybun> valorie: hey
[02:37] <ahoneybun> hey sgclark
[02:38] <sgclark> hey ahoneybun
[02:38] <ahoneybun> bug reports! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1271390
[02:41] <ahoneybun> so I guess we could use the docbook to html or can xml(docbook) be used for doc.kubuntu.org
[02:41] <ahoneybun> ?
[02:41] <ahoneybun> \/away
[02:42] <sgclark> ahoneybun, valorie it is Yuri that has the magic script to convert wiki to docbook, I can email when we are ready
[02:45] <sgclark> ahoneybun, sorry I don't know about docs.kubuntu.org format
[02:45] <sgclark> docbook to html is simple though, I know how to do that
[07:01] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ScottK kdeconnect in binary new
[07:26] <lordievader> xnox: Thank you for the feedback. Guess I selected one that isn't available on the cd. Should I report a bug for the missing test case?
[07:51] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:01] <shadeslayer> ScottK: could you have a look at http://paste.kde.org/pd4263890 and check if it's correct?
[08:03] <shadeslayer> ScottK: specifically the python2 part
[08:51] <21WAB71EH> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4MDA
[08:51] <21WAB71EH> lol my nick
[08:52] <21WAB71EH> i think thats actually a good thing
[08:55] <valorie> 21WAB71EH: your point?
[09:05] <21WAB71EH> valorie:  its good to have short description of files on software center
[09:08] <valorie> 21WAB71EH: I agree
[09:09] <valorie> however, we wouldn't make such a demand by ourselves
[09:51] <xnox> lordievader: can you give URL or screenshot to explain what you mean by "isn't available on the cd" ?
 hi all, do you know if kde sc 4.12.1 will be released for Kubuntu 12.04 (through backports ppa)?
[10:08] <yofel> it's planned yes, we're just a bit shorthanded so it'll take a few more days
[10:09] <jarkko> someone asked on kubuntu channel, i replied him
[10:11] <Riddell> jarkko: nows your chance to get into packaging :)
[10:11] <jarkko> Riddell: how would that happen
[10:11] <Riddell> jarkko: read some guides, ask for a tutorial, get stuck in :)
[10:12] <Riddell> jarkko: I'm always happy to take people through making a basic package
[10:12] <jarkko> Riddell: can you gimme a  basic link?
[10:12] <Riddell> jarkko: we have a script to do stuff like the 4.12.1 backports but you need to know the basics of packaging to get into it
[10:13] <Riddell> jarkko: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ might be a good start
[10:13] <jarkko> lets assume i read that all what then?
[10:14] <Riddell> http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/ might be another one but that's got a lot about UDD bzr branches which most people don't actually use
[10:14] <Riddell> jarkko: then you can maybe packaging something in KF5 to get the hang of it
[10:14] <apachelogger> valorie: so there is tech in place and all that?
[10:14] <Riddell> jarkko: I often take people through that on a shared server so we can work together to start it
[10:15] <Riddell> jarkko: you could also work out how to run the backport script
[10:15] <Riddell> jarkko: then you need to get someone with permissions to sign it so it can be uploaded
[10:15] <jarkko> Riddell: i play one dota2 game and i look those links then
[10:16] <jarkko> is there lots of packaging to done?
[10:16] <jarkko> amount of work
[10:16] <Riddell> jarkko: after a few weeks you can get permissions to upload to PPAs and before you know it you can get permissions to upload to the archive
[10:16] <Riddell> jarkko: loads :)
[10:16] <Riddell> always news releases and backports to be done
[10:17] <Riddell> see the last link at http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/
[10:17] <Riddell> for new packages
[10:17] <Riddell> https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas-frameworks list of new stuff from KDE Frameworks all need new packages made
[10:18] <Riddell> http://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas notes on 4.12 packaging needing done
[10:19] <jarkko> how many kde versions you support ?
[10:19] <Riddell> 4.11 still gets monthly releases, 4.12 gets monthly releases and KF5 is now getting monthly releases
[10:20] <Riddell> and precice is LTS, saucy is the current release and trusty is the development release
[10:20] <Riddell> so plenty of combinations :)
[10:23] <yofel> Riddell: could you take a look at kde 4.11.5 in saucy-proposed? It's still stuck in Unapproved
[10:23] <jarkko> whats KF4
[10:23] <jarkko> 5
[10:23] <yofel> I get the feeling ~ubuntu-sru is overworked
[10:26] <apachelogger> I think anyone but ScottK simply doesn't wanna look at a kde sru :P
[10:26] <apachelogger> so dangerous :)
[10:26] <yofel> why? It's only 90 packages
[10:26] <yofel> and that even includes l10n :S
[10:26] <lordievader> xnox: What I ment was I selected Dutch in ubiquity hit "Try Kubuntu"and the live session would be in English. But following your explanation that there are only a few languages available for the live session, the Dutch language is probably not among them.
 jarkko: thank you. will kde sc 4.12.* be default in the upcoming kubuntu 14.04?
[10:27] <xnox> lordievader: yeah, dutch is not a top world language.
[10:28] <xnox> lordievader: there is a bzr branch with the "algorithm" which languages get included based on remaining space on the cd or some such.
[10:28] <lordievader> xnox: No, indeed. No worries, was just wondering.
[10:28] <yofel> lordievader: we actually only ship very few languages on the images, takes quite a bit of space :/
[10:29] <lordievader> yofel: I understand that. Like I said I was just wondering ;)
[10:29] <jarkko> yofel: why they take so much space then?
[10:29] <lordievader> The rest of Ubiquity was in Dutch, so that was nice :)
[10:30] <tsimpson> jarkko: KDE Frameworks 5 http://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves
[10:31] <yofel> jarkko: because the compiled translation files for a language end up being several MB, now take a dozen languages and you end up using 200 or 300MB of image space just for translations
[10:32] <yofel> and with our ~1GB limit KDE and base system already takes a lot
[10:32] <jarkko> yofel: how is that possible?
[10:32] <jarkko> what format language files are
[10:35] <yofel> gettext usually (http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/)
[10:36] <jarkko> yofel: but how is possible that they eat so much space?
[10:36] <jarkko> do they contain pics?
[10:37] <yofel> no, it's just lots of text in a lot of applications. An example:
[10:37] <jarkko> is it compressed?
[10:38] <yofel> the german *application* translations for just kde are installed 18MB, the package also ships documentation stuff etc. and is 35M. The image is ofc. a compressed squashfs so you don't use 18M but less. Still a few M
[10:40] <yofel> now add the other translations in it like manpages, sometimes even translated sound files, etc. and each language uses quite a bit of space
[10:41] <jarkko> would it be possible to offer different links that if you want your distro with this language, download this lso
[10:42] <yofel> that would mean generating another ISO (we had a DVD image in the past with more languages), that means that for every milestone you need to run all the ISO tests for yet another image
[10:42] <yofel> and it's hard to find enough testers....
[10:43]  * yofel -> lunch
[10:45] <jarkko> but adding just languages to iso shouldnt break things so much
[11:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: I can probably look at it tomorrow.
[12:00] <jarkko> is 6kk months developemnt  cycle too fast?
[12:00] <apachelogger> more like too slow
[12:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: netbook?
[12:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: I already did, there is no kmail in the favs at all it seems
[12:01] <apachelogger> also some plasmoid is broken, but my hebrew is too bad to know which one :S
[12:02] <apachelogger> oh, now it's broken in general
[12:02] <jarkko> but speaking about language files that consume installation space
[12:02] <apachelogger> :S
[12:02] <apachelogger> jarkko: how does one relate to the other?
[12:02] <jarkko> where are those language files used? on kde?
[12:02] <jarkko> on installation?
[12:02] <jarkko> both?
[12:04] <apachelogger> I do not follow
[12:05] <jarkko> the language files are for kde or other programs too?
[12:05] <yofel> if you want a fully translated system you need them for... everything?
[12:08] <apachelogger> error: 'the language files' is undefined and this scope (parser.cpp:301883)
[12:08] <yofel> that's a long parset.cpp :D
[12:08] <yofel> meh, file not found™
[12:09] <jarkko> why the maximum size of iso is 1gb?
[12:09] <jarkko> and what's eating most of it?
[12:11] <apachelogger> now that I can answer
[12:11] <jarkko> would it be possible to off er additional languages as downloadable files that just need to add on certain directory on iso?
[12:11] <apachelogger> the size is 1gb because it was defined to be 1gb
[12:11] <Riddell> jarkko: it's an arbitrary limit we agreed on which balances enough software with download speed, we can decide to increase it if we want
[12:11] <jarkko> who defined, why
[12:11] <apachelogger> and the top space hogs are listed here http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/cdimage-size/kubuntu-trusty-cd-amd64.htm
[12:11] <apachelogger> jarkko: why add languages?
[12:12] <apachelogger> if you want languages, use the dvd ISO
[12:13] <yofel> we don't have one
[12:13] <yofel> anymore
[12:13] <apachelogger> (FWIW most space is consumed by semi-tiny stuff btw)
[12:13] <apachelogger> yofel: why is that?
[12:13] <yofel> same reason as alternate? nobody wanted to test it?
[12:13] <jarkko> i have done kubuntu install few times, there has been some partion crash bug...that has been irritating, but as irritatitng has been that i have to download some language files (i use english on all my programs, even its not my native language), those language files download quite slowly
[12:14] <yofel> I guess we could re-introduce the DVD as 'desktop+all languages'
[12:14] <jarkko> how much would it increase the iso size?
[12:15] <apachelogger> yofel: why does the DVD need testing beyond "boots, installs, system boots"?
[12:16] <yofel> well, it doesn't. It's just that barely anyone was doing even the few testcases on the iso tracker
[12:16] <apachelogger> jarkko: >limit
[12:16] <apachelogger> because right now we are ~limit
[12:16] <Riddell> all languages is a lot of languages
[12:16] <apachelogger> and I already had to remove the german translations to get to ~limit
[12:16] <yofel> shadeslayer: do we actually have a *working* instruction set how to manually reproduce an image by now?
[12:17] <apachelogger> yofel: IIRC the dvd had the same amount of test cases as the desktop iso
[12:17] <apachelogger> which seems utterly pointless to me
[12:17] <yofel> or is that still a set of googe docs from cj
[12:18] <yofel> apachelogger: they do share some of the squashfs, so might be true, but you theoretically still have to test the full procedure
[12:18] <yofel> (which is kinda nonsense as that covers a tiny amount of the use cases)
[12:18] <yofel> and at least the installer should behave mostly the same
[12:18] <apachelogger> that is my point
[12:19] <apachelogger> ISO validation is limited to the installer
[12:19]  * Riddell high fives lordievader for being the i386 tester king
[12:19] <yofel> Mail to the ML about adding desktop+l10n* as DVD?
[12:19] <apachelogger> now unless there is a completely obscure bug in the installer there is no point in validating it again simply because the ISO size is increased and addtional mumbo jumbo is in the pool
[12:20] <yofel> and I mean *only* l10n, not stuff like digikam etc. again
[12:20] <apachelogger> yofel: please do :P
[12:21] <jarkko> apachelogger: i agree
[12:21] <apachelogger> TBH I'd still gauge use of such a thing first
[12:21] <yofel> well, you could then go and kick of all l10n from the standard install. Would ofc. mean that people with slow network connection need to know english
[12:22] <yofel> but I think we barely have an l10n on the image anyway
[12:22] <apachelogger> most people will install every 6 months at the most, and most people will only ever use one language, so the bottom line still is that the regular image is more efficient as it fetches the necessary l10n, not all the l10n
[12:22] <yofel> *any
[12:22] <apachelogger> yofel: I did kick all l10n from the standard install
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:22] <yofel> ah ok
[12:22] <apachelogger> well, s/standard install/desktop seed/
[12:22] <yofel> hm... ubiquity is still translated though?
[12:23] <Riddell> ubiquity ships with its own translations
[12:23] <apachelogger> (we only had -de on the ISO)
[12:23] <apachelogger> and even without it amd64 is still oversized...
[12:23] <Riddell> so the idea is if you speak only a language not in the image you can still install it and install the langpacks as you do so and it's all good
[12:23] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: how's the driver installer thing coming?
[12:24] <apachelogger> for the plasma2 transition we'll likely need to bump the ISO (temporarly) in size btw
[12:24] <apachelogger> there's no way in hell we can fit both a kde4 and a frameworks5 stack into 1 gib
[12:25] <apachelogger> even if we dropped some of the insanely huge font and print drivers
[12:25] <jarkko> i checked those packages, half of them
[12:25] <jarkko> i dont even know what most of them are
[12:25] <apachelogger> as I said, the problem are the <=500kb packages
[12:26] <apachelogger> they make up like 80% of the ISO
[12:26] <apachelogger> and the other 20% proably amount to some 100-200mib of space
[12:26] <apachelogger> and most of them are not really optional anyway
[12:27] <apachelogger> you've got your kernel and your libreoffice and your runtime/artworks
[12:30] <apachelogger> oh
[12:30] <apachelogger> I know why amd64 is still oversized
[12:30] <apachelogger> libreoffice moved to gstreamer1
[12:30] <apachelogger> and gstreamer1 pulls in all sorts of rubbish
[12:32] <apachelogger> no wait
[12:32] <apachelogger> wrong seed
[12:32] <jarkko> how are those packed in iso?
[12:32] <jarkko> those files
[12:32] <Riddell> lzma compression
[12:32] <jarkko> are they one big file, or several smaller
[12:34] <Riddell> it's the while filesystem put into 1 file which is mounted loopback when running the live system
[12:34] <Riddell> it's the whole filesystem put into 1 file which is mounted loopback when running the live system
[12:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: I really don't think plasma-netbook works as great as it should :S
[12:42] <apachelogger>  * so just patch kdebase-workspace for now
[12:42] <apachelogger>  /* This doesn't seem to work when loading from live CD and needs to be set to ubiquity or oem-config
[12:42] <apachelogger>  * so just patch kdebase-workspace for now
[12:43] <apachelogger> oh right, the page was broken somehow so I removed it
[12:43] <apachelogger> never added it back apparently
[12:43] <apachelogger> what that comment is about I do not know though
[12:43] <apachelogger> ah
[12:43] <apachelogger> ok
[12:43] <apachelogger> so, we had a kubuntu-settings script to generate the favs
[12:44] <apachelogger> except on the livecd we need different paths
[12:44] <apachelogger> so someone took the easy way out and decided to patch workspace instead
[12:44] <apachelogger> <- enjoys this course of action lots
[12:45] <apachelogger> right
[12:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: theres's no kmail because the patch still adds kmail
[12:45] <apachelogger> which does not exist so netbook simply doesn't display it
[12:47] <apachelogger> uhhh, the patch has been there since 4.4
[12:47] <apachelogger> exciting how it managed to get through some >=3 patch reviews
[12:48] <yofel> I think most people reviewing kde-workspace patches get a headache after ~half of them
[12:50] <apachelogger> I wonder why that is...
[12:51] <yofel> good think kde-workspace is going away in the feature I guess? ^^
[12:52] <apachelogger> yeah, we can then apply 3000 patches violating the patch policy to each of the 10 packages
[12:52] <apachelogger> 10 times the patchery \o/
[12:53] <yofel> but but - the reviews are more atomic then! :D
[12:55] <apachelogger> yeah, I really don't think the problem is the amount it's the attitude
[12:56] <apachelogger> if I look for shit that can be upstreamed then I will obviously ignore our favorite patch
[12:56] <apachelogger> if I look for us doing something wrong then I probably would find that patch and rage for an hour
[12:57] <apachelogger> because that is the point of a review, looking for things that are wrong
[12:57] <apachelogger> otherwise we'd call it a patch-upstreaming-assessment
[12:57] <apachelogger> or patch upstreamery for short
[12:57] <apachelogger> but we don't
[13:05] <apachelogger> ScottK: bug fixed
[13:05] <apachelogger> I added a card to remove that patch
[13:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: which patch is that?
[13:09] <apachelogger> kubuntu_netbook_favourites.diff
[13:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: what does/did that do?
[13:10] <Riddell> and why don't we want it now?
[13:15] <jarkko> the link that shows the packages and their sizes, would it be any good to have somekind of translation what does what?
[13:16] <Riddell> jarkko: translation?  you can look up the package descriptions with apt-cache I guess
[13:17] <jarkko> there was a time that you could choose what packages to install on linux install, are we ever going back to that?
[13:18] <Riddell> you still can with the netbook installer which uses d-i but not with the live image installer no (can't be technically implemented and not wanted anyway, one of the focuses of ubuntu is to choose that sort of stuff for you)
[13:18] <Riddell> s/netbook/netboot/
[13:18] <kubotu> Riddell meant: "you still can with the netboot installer which uses d-i but not with the live image installer no (can't be technically implemented and not wanted anyway, one of the focuses of ubuntu is to choose that sort of stuff for you)"
[13:22] <apachelogger> uhuhuhu
[13:22] <apachelogger> exciting
[13:22] <apachelogger> I always missed ksystemlog when doing l10n reviews
[13:22] <apachelogger> that thing has no localization whatsoever
[13:22] <apachelogger> ...
[13:24] <apachelogger> or is it from the SC
[13:24] <apachelogger> !info ksystemlog
[13:24] <apachelogger> it has an SC version, internetz says it is not
[13:25] <apachelogger> it lives in kdeadmin, yet it is not localized for me
[13:25] <apachelogger> maybe not complete in hebrew :S
[13:26] <apachelogger> phew
[13:27] <apachelogger> not translated in he
[13:27] <apachelogger> all goody \o/
[13:27] <apachelogger> that thing totally should polkit though
[14:04] <lordievader> Riddell: \o/
[14:06] <Riddell> hum, virtualbox dosen't want to run amd64 images on this computer complaining I only have i386 kernel running, but uname says I'm running x86_64
[14:07] <Riddell> so foo, I guess I can't test any more
[14:07] <Riddell> lordievader: are you able to do any of those amd64 tests?
[14:16] <sgclark> Riddell: make sure you choose 64bit version of type when creating the vm
[14:16] <sgclark> Riddell: files ready for you ktextwidgets being first priority
[14:18] <Riddell> sgclark: where's that option?
[14:18] <sgclark> First screen when naming it, scroll down box eg: ubuntu 64 bit for kubuntu
[14:19] <sgclark> I have made that mistake before :)
[14:20] <sgclark> Riddell: unfortunately I have not found a way to change after made, will have to start over afaik
[14:22] <Riddell> sgclark: wow that is not obvious at all
[14:22] <sgclark> Riddell: yup I agree, it has got me a few times : /
[14:23] <Riddell> oh "VT-x/AMD-V hardware accelaration has been enabled but is not operational" I guess my cheap laptop here is missing some processor extentions
[14:29] <Riddell> ah hah, a quick twiddle in the bios settings and it seems to work
[14:29] <Riddell> I wonder why you'd ever want those turned off
[15:13] <shadeslayer> yofel: sorta, you have to use scripts provided in ubuntu-defaults-builder IIRC
[15:14] <shadeslayer> yofel: that is the most reliable way to build ISO's
[15:15] <shadeslayer> you can then customize things by copying over the entire auto folder and modifying auto/config
[15:15] <shadeslayer> yofel: see the neon iso builder
[15:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ping
[15:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: if I call File.new on a existing file, will it overwrite it's contents?
[15:21] <shadeslayer> or only modify contents of said existing file
[15:33] <Riddell> waa, can anyone successfully login to wiki.kubuntu.org ?
[15:34] <jussi> Riddell: I have something for you... http://vimeo.com/84685858 - enjoy! :D
[15:36] <Riddell> jussi: aah the crunch of the ice as you paddle through it, nothing like it
[15:36] <Riddell> jussi: anyone you know?
[15:37] <jussi> Riddell: no, just came to my FB stream from some outdoors guy I follow
[15:39] <lordievader> Riddell: Still need someone for the amd64 testing?
[15:40] <lordievader> Good afternoon, btw.
[15:40] <Riddell> lordievader: there's 1 marked undone on amd64 but I marked it ready anyway
[15:41] <lordievader> Riddell: Should I still test it?
[15:41] <Riddell> lordievader: if convenient yes that would be nice
[15:42] <lordievader> Riddell: Sure, I'm on it ;)
[15:42] <Riddell> lovely
[15:44] <lordievader> Riddell: The auto-resize should be tested right, not the Non-English live session?
[15:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: in what language?
[15:47] <shadeslayer> rooby
[15:47] <apachelogger> kubotu: google ruby class file
[15:47] <kubotu> Results for ruby class file: 1. Class: File (Ruby 2.1.0) - Ruby-Doc.org: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core/File.html | 2. Class: File::Stat (Ruby 1.9.3) - Ruby-Doc.org: http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/File/Stat.html | 3. Including a Ruby class from a separate file - Stack Overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1050749/including-a-ruby-class-from-a-separate-file
[15:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ruby has rather excellent class documentation
[15:47] <shadeslayer> mhmm
[15:47] <shadeslayer> I looked
[15:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: new wouldn't do anything though I think
[15:47] <apachelogger> you actually have to open a file to change it :P
[15:47] <apachelogger> same in every language
[15:48] <apachelogger> oh, you can actually open it right away
[15:48] <apachelogger> neat
[15:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: depends on the mode flags
[15:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/File.html#method-c-new
[15:48] <shadeslayer> yeah was looking at that
[15:48] <shadeslayer> also
[15:48] <apachelogger> right
[15:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: rewrite branch has no lib/starter?
[15:49] <apachelogger> that block points to http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/IO.html#method-c-new
[15:49] <apachelogger> and that block explains the flags
[15:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yeah
[15:49] <sgclark> Riddell: I have tons of collisions with HTML docs, can I change the HTML_INSTALL_DIR in extra-cmake-modules or do I have to rename tons of files?
[15:49] <shadeslayer> so ... should I remove the line that says require lib/starter
[15:49] <apachelogger> starter was a cruch to force procedural descreteness of execution flow ^^
[15:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: :O
[15:50] <apachelogger> dude
[15:50] <shadeslayer> I was getting inspired from libqapt
[15:50] <apachelogger> if you want to try rewrite you need not write a script
[15:50] <shadeslayer> oh
 ruby tarme.rb --origin trunk --version 0.0 kcm-touchpad
 no clue if it will produce a valid tarball tho :P
[15:50] <shadeslayer> oh heh
[15:51] <shadeslayer> da de dum dum
[15:52] <Riddell> sgclark: hmm, can you give some examples?
[15:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: still fails
[15:53] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.kde.org/
[15:57] <sgclark> Riddell: the entire /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kioslave folder
[15:57] <sgclark> Riddell: well most of it
[15:58] <shadeslayer> my brain is a complete potato right now
[15:58] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://pastebin.kde.org/pnu2jleti/xcxl8k/raw
[15:59] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: sudo apt-get install subversion
[15:59] <apachelogger> ....
[16:00] <shadeslayer> oh heh, I thought it couldn't find anything on anonsvn
[16:00] <apachelogger> well
[16:00] <shadeslayer> like I said, brain is a complete potato right now
[16:00] <apachelogger> you are not alone with that assumption
[16:00] <apachelogger> the problem really is that people don't know what svn output looks like
[16:00] <apachelogger> cause when svn doesn't find a file it throws walls of text at you
[16:01] <shadeslayer> I see
[16:01]  * apachelogger totally managed to link kcm_language against libkubuntu
[16:04] <shadeslayer> hurray paste.kde.org is totally broken now
[16:05] <shadeslayer> doesn't even give me a url to copy
[16:05] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.kde.org/p2bc9wduw
[16:05] <shadeslayer> looks like it's went into some sort of loop?
[16:08] <Riddell> sgclark: well, hum, you have come across an interesting issue
[16:09] <Riddell> sgclark: do you have any others?
[16:09] <lordievader> Riddell: The auto-resize amd64 installs fine, runs fine too :)
[16:09] <Riddell> lordievader: awooga!
[16:09] <lordievader> That is on this kvm machine ;)
[16:09] <sgclark> Riddell: not yet, only kio
[16:09] <Riddell> sgclark: but I guess this will affect everything
[16:10] <sgclark> Riddell: yeah, tis why I asked before doing anything
[16:10] <Riddell> sgclark: but it would be nice if khelpcentre could read both kf5 and kdelibs4 based documentation
[16:11] <Riddell> then again, who really uses khelpcentre?
[16:12] <sgclark> Riddell: I only use it to test documention
[16:12] <Riddell> sgclark: I guess for now just change it in extra-make-modules to /doc/kf5/HTML
[16:12] <sgclark> Riddell: but I suspect some use it, not everyone is genious, trust me I have done user support
[16:12] <Riddell> or doc/kde5/HTML since upstream uses "kde5" for other directories (against all upstream branding guidelines)
[16:13] <sgclark> Riddell: yeah I was thinking kde5, will go with that
[16:13] <lordievader> Man pages are read, so why not KDE documentation.
[16:14] <Riddell> lordievader: when was the last time you read it?
[16:15] <lordievader> Euhh... man pages today. I've read the Kubuntu doc quite recently to check for errors...
[16:16] <Riddell> it doesn't count if you're proofreading :)
[16:16] <sgclark> Riddell: I know what you are saying, but you  have to remember there are everyday regular users out there :)
[16:17] <Riddell> right, I just wonder if they read the documentation
[16:17] <Riddell> anyway, academic discussion
[16:17] <lordievader> Was afraid of that one. Then never I guess for the KDE documentation. But I guess I'm not a typical user.
[16:18] <sgclark> These days most search the web, wikis are more important
[16:18] <Riddell> right
[16:18] <lordievader> Perhaps askin the Kubuntu (support) mailing list if they use it is an ide?
[16:18] <lordievader> idea*
[16:18] <lordievader> True, true.
[16:21] <Peace-> apachelogger: fantastic article for ppa :)
[16:21] <Peace-> meant ==> http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/neon-5s-many-ppas-apt/
[16:23] <apachelogger> I should have become professional blogger shouldn't I :P
[16:23] <apachelogger> glad you liked it
[16:37] <Riddell> sgclark: ktextwidgets uploaded!
[16:37] <sgclark> Riddell: woohoo ty
[16:37] <Riddell> sgclark: I tidies up the line endings on the end of files, added one to rules and removed some exess ones from .install, may as well start off tidy
[16:38] <Riddell> sgclark: oh also removed the header text from debian/watch, again just to be tidy
[16:39] <sgclark> Riddell: ok grabbed that from another package, will remove the header from now on and try to remember new lines "grabs sticky note"
[16:47] <sgclark> Riddell: extra-cmake-modules ready
[16:48] <Riddell> sgclark: kemoticons uploaded!
[16:48] <Riddell> sgclark: the .symbols file was missing the symbols from the various plugins in that package so I ran the "Updating multiple symbols files at once" bit at http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/symbolfiles.html to complete it
[16:49] <apachelogger> l10n part of libkubuntu pretty functional and most of the KCM is now based on that (not pushed yet)... only missing is actually qapt specific cache handling (i.e. when you open the kcm right after installation it will display a busy progressbar while the cache is being updated and opened ... currently libkubuntu has no encapsulation for that)
[16:49] <sgclark> Oh thank you, that will come in handy for kio
[16:50]  * Riddell high fives apachelogger
[16:51] <apachelogger> code in kcm patch down 70 lines :)
[16:51] <apachelogger> not that it would make that big a difference at large, my busy indicator has like 500 sloc and is part of the patch ;)
[16:51] <apachelogger> come to think of it, maybe I should move it to libkubuntu
[16:52] <apachelogger> I think we'll need it for the wallpapers installation thing as well
[16:52] <apachelogger> currently that just disables everything and adds a progressbar at the bottom or something
[16:58]  * apachelogger shall do bloggsies tomorrow
[17:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: if you are still around when alpha is out it would be lovely you could upload ubuntu-release-upgrader from bzr, the changes there possibly will help with upgrade testing tomorrow
[17:01]  * apachelogger disappears into thin air
[17:04] <Riddell> sgclark: kdesu uploaded!
[17:05] <Riddell> sgclark: I added in this to debian/rules   override_dh_auto_configure: $(overridden_command) -- -DKDESU_USE_SUDO_DEFAULT=true
[17:05] <Riddell> because we like to use sudo
[17:05] <Riddell> plus that was the very first code I wrote for Kubuntu so it would be a shame not to use it :)
[17:05] <sgclark> ok
[17:05] <sgclark> :)
[17:07] <Riddell> sgclark: extra-cmake-modules uploaded!
[17:07] <Riddell> I changed the version in debian/changelog from ppa7 to ppa8
[17:07] <sgclark> ahh, that is how that works, ty
[17:08] <sgclark> learn new things everyday :)
[17:09] <Riddell> sgclark: normally we'd add a whole new changelog entry at the top using  dch -i  but I don't think that's useful to keep the history for this early work
[17:10] <sgclark> ok
[18:44] <Riddell> alpha 2 is out!
[18:44] <Riddell> lordievader: awesome working on the testing
[18:46] <jarkko__> grea
[18:46] <jarkko__> t
[18:46] <jarkko__> is there any changelog alpha 1 --> alpha 2?
[18:51] <lordievader> Riddell: Thanks, glad I could help :)
[18:58] <Peace-> il
[19:11] <sgclark> Riddell: kxmlgui ready for you, lots depend on it
[19:31] <jarkko__> how different are these *ubuntus from  each other?
[20:06] <yofel> wtf, did something completely trash virtuoso o.O? http://paste.kde.org/pa51d9c00
[21:08] <Noskcaj> Riddell, Can you see why modemmanager is still in -proposed? It's holding up bug 1257315 and bug 1257316 here, plus a heap of gnome stuff
[21:09] <soee> i see osme updates to lightdm
[21:09] <soee> will try if it owrks now :/
[22:24] <ahoneybun> hey valorie
[22:35] <valorie> hi ahoneybun
[22:35] <valorie> the tilesetters are here in my new back bath today
[22:36] <valorie> exciting to see stuff finally taking shape