[06:28] <SuperL4g> b-_-d: I'm thinking much the same thing.
[06:28] <SuperL4g> I'm at about 15% right now
[06:29] <SuperL4g> 10hrs. 41mins to go
[06:43] <anders_> hi, I'm having trouble installing kde. Getting: kde: Depends: kdeaddons but it is not going to be installed
[06:43] <anders_> E: Broken packages
[06:44] <anders_> anybody know how to fix that
[06:45] <anders_> kdeaddons: Depends: konq-plugins (>= 4:3.3.2-1ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages
[06:47] <anders_> The following packages have unmet dependencies: konq-plugins: Depends: kdelibs4 (>= 4:3.3.2) but it is not going to be installed Depends: konqueror (>= 4:3.3.2) but it is not going to be installed Depends: libkonq4 (>= 4:3.3.2) but it is not going to be installed Depends: ark but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages
[07:01] <mdz> b-_-d: please use bittorrent
[07:05] <SuperL4g> mdz: do you know where the Kubuntu images can be had on BT right now?
[07:06] <Quinn_Storm> SuperL4g: unless you need the livecd, you can try installing ubuntu and then installing the kubuntu-desktop package
[07:07] <b-_-d> bittorrent did not work
[07:07] <b-_-d> i will get the iso and host on a faster server
[07:08] <BamaJank> Alright, I want to check out kubuntu, what is the best method? I have 4.10 ubuntu on a cd, should I install that and just grab the KDE files or download the install CD for Kubuntu?
[07:08] <mdz> SuperL4g: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/hoary/preview/
[07:09] <mdz> BamaJank: if you install Ubuntu 4.10, you will need to upgrade to the development release anyway in order to install the Kubuntu desktop
[07:09] <mdz> BamaJank: so it is probably simpler to download a new ISO
[07:09] <BamaJank> Thanks mdz, will do
[07:11] <kbitty> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=22008
[07:13] <b-_-d> i will post a amd64 and ix86 iso in about 10 hours
[07:14] <b-_-d>  SuperL4g what you at now?
[07:15] <SuperL4g> 20%
[07:15] <b-_-d> 21% here :(
[07:15] <mdz> SuperL4g: did you receive the URL I sent you, where the .torrents are available?
[07:15] <mdz> they are in the same directory as the isos; we always publish torrents at the same time
[07:15] <b-_-d> torrents did not work
[07:16] <mdz> b-_-d: if they did not work for you, the problem is on your end (I am using them right now)
[07:16] <SuperL4g> mdz: yes sir, and unfortunately, no one wants or is going after the PPC .iso at the moment :)
[07:16] <BamaJank> Torrents are working for me
[07:16] <b-_-d> i have access to two fast servers
[07:16] <SuperL4g> brb
[07:16] <b-_-d> http and ftp will work for everyone
[07:17] <mdz> yes, but they will also take 10 hours
[07:17] <mdz> bittorrent not only saves bandwidth on the server side, it'll get you the file faster
[07:17] <b-_-d> mdz not at 200+ and 300+ k
[07:17] <kbitty> did ne one like my ss?
[07:18] <b-_-d> 16.9k is no good
[07:19] <b-_-d> i have tons of bandwith to use
[07:19] <BamaJank> Give me some...I have low bandwidth.. :(
[07:19] <b-_-d> lol
[07:19] <BamaJank> ;-)
[07:20] <BamaJank> 25k is pegging me LMAO
[07:20] <SuperL4g> mdz: yeah, no one wants the PPC one like I do, at this point :)
[07:20] <mdz> SuperL4g: I'm seeding it, zero peers
[07:21] <SuperL4g> mdz: you have it already?
[07:21] <mdz> I built it
[07:21] <SuperL4g> :)
[07:21] <b-_-d> can site that host kubuntu isos use the kubuntu logo?
[07:22] <BamaJank> Good way to get it ;-)
[07:22] <mdz> I have a seed running with all 6 images; currently ~75kb/sec on -live-powerpc.iso, 0kb on -install-powerpc.iso
[07:23] <b-_-d> i think i will also offer a isos in parts
[07:23] <mdz> b-_-d: I don't see why not, as long as you are offering the official images
[07:23] <SuperL4g> mdz: I wonder why I can't see it...?
[07:23] <b-_-d> mdz i want to be shure
[07:24] <b-_-d> we do not want issues later
[07:25] <mdz> SuperL4g: I suppose I could be hitting the limit on the number of peers
[07:25] <mdz> hmm, no, that limit is per torrent
[07:26] <mdz> every other torrent is active, and I've served 3.6GB worth of the powerpc install iso previously, so I think it's OK on this end
[07:26] <b-_-d> i do not see a point of contact on the site
[07:26] <b-_-d> i will just not use the logo :(
[07:26] <mdz> that's fine too
[07:26] <mdz> we don't use the logo on the official download page either
[07:27] <b-_-d> i want to i just do not want to get hit later
[07:28] <mdz> I've told you that it's fine, but I don't think it's important
[07:28] <b-_-d> ok
[07:29] <b-_-d> is it ok to host other distros in same dir
[07:29] <BROKEN_LADDER> who are ops in #ubuntu?
[07:29] <BROKEN_LADDER> i'm banned, and the person who banned me won't reply or tell me why he did it.
[07:30] <b-_-d> i have some gentoo isos in the dir i want to put kubuntu in
[07:31] <Roey> hi
[07:31] <Roey> ok
[07:31] <Roey> what in the blue FUCK
[07:31] <mdz> kubuntu, like ubuntu, is free software
[07:31] <Roey> mdz: I reboot to try out Kubuntu,
[07:32] <Roey> I see that it detected my raid array
[07:32] <Roey> so I mount /dev/md5 (/home)
[07:32] <Roey> look around (not writing anything)
[07:32] <Roey> umount it, and reboot
[07:32] <b-_-d> Roey great i also run scsi
[07:32] <mdz> scsi and raid are orthogonal
[07:32] <Roey> upon rebooting, I see that md5 and md6 have been jumbled up;
[07:32] <Roey> that is,
[07:33] <b-_-d> my 39160 and 2940u2w worked
[07:33] <Roey>  /dev/hde1 and /dev/hdg1 are now on /dev/md5, where before they were on /dev/md1
[07:33] <b-_-d> Roey want scsi card?
[07:33] <Roey> no
[07:33] <b-_-d> hdg?
[07:33] <Roey> I want to know what kubuntu did that jumbled up the ordering of the drives.
[07:33] <b-_-d> that is ide
[07:34] <Roey> because now I can't load /home.
[07:34] <Roey> long story, I have two sata hard drives with a 2.6.7 kernel
[07:34] <Roey>  /dev/hdg and /dev/hde
[07:34] <Roey> and they're in a software raid1 array.
[07:34] <Roey> so...
[07:34] <b-_-d> Roey fix by hand from live cd in chroot
[07:35] <Roey> I want to fix it so that /dev/md1 consists of /dev/hd{e,g}1
[07:35] <Roey> and that /dev/md5 consist of /dev/hd{e,g}5
[07:35] <Roey> and that /dev/md6 consists of /dev/hd{e,g}6
[07:35] <Roey> like that.
[07:35] <Roey> b-_-d: how?
[07:35] <Roey> b-_-d: I don't know what got messed up.
[07:35] <SuperL4g> Okay... some investigation tells me that Luxi Sans is part of the ttf-freefont package.  But apt-get install tells me the newest version is already installed.  If that is the case, why do I not see Luxi Sans in any list of fonts anywhere?
[07:36] <b-_-d> mount the drive and do trile and error
[07:36] <b-_-d> i only use real raid
[07:37] <b-_-d> but i am not knocking software raid
[07:37] <mdz> SuperL4g: that font is not part of ttf-freefont
[07:37] <b-_-d> 25%
[07:38] <SuperL4g> mdz: do you know what package it comes in?
[07:38] <mdz> SuperL4g: I have never heard of it
[07:38] <b-_-d> copy the fonts from a win box
[07:38] <SuperL4g> KDE 3.1 - 3.3 has had it
[07:38] <b-_-d> whey work well in xorg
[07:38] <Roey> fuck meeeeee
[07:38] <Roey> ack.
[07:40] <SuperL4g> bingo
[07:40] <SuperL4g> licensing
[07:40] <SuperL4g> they're non-free
[07:40] <Roey> mount: /dev/md5: can't read superblock
[07:40] <Roey> what the fuck
[07:40] <Roey> ?
[07:40] <Roey> how can I tell if my data is still there???
[07:41] <Roey> root@ubuntu:/mnt# mount -t xfs /dev/md5 /mnt/md5
[07:41] <Roey> mount: /dev/md5: can't read superblock
[07:41] <Roey> root@ubuntu:/mnt# mount -t xfs /dev/sda5 /mnt/md5
[07:41] <Roey> mount: /dev/sda5 already mounted or /mnt/md5 busy
[07:42] <b-_-d> where can i find a package list
[07:44] <b-_-d> http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/documentation.php#d0e275
[07:44] <b-_-d> read under "Package Management"
[07:45] <b-_-d> person coding missed the word all
[07:45] <b-_-d> There are literally thousands of applications written for KDE, Kubuntu cannot install of them and it is unlikely that you would want it to.
[07:54] <slick> hi all, does anyone know if azureus can be used under kubuntu?
[07:55] <slick> i have installed jre and the gtk version of azureus, it starts fine but just doesnt load, no errors or anything
[08:26] <BROKEN_LADDER> what is the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade
[08:26] <psoulocybe> hi guys
[08:26] <psoulocybe> i'm trying to setup a static ip
[08:27] <psoulocybe> i can't find it in kcontrol
[08:27] <psoulocybe> any ideas?
[08:27] <dilema> BROKEN_LADDER, versioning?
[08:27] <BROKEN_LADDER> huh?
[08:27] <BROKEN_LADDER> what do you mean?
[08:27] <dilema> dist-upgrade would upgrade the entire OS and the version(base)
[08:27] <dilema> while upgrade would simply upgrade all of that but keep the old version file
[08:28] <BROKEN_LADDER> version?
[08:28] <psoulocybe> anyone know how to do the network settings?
[08:28] <BROKEN_LADDER> "do"?
[08:28] <dilema> BROKEN_LADDER, yes the /etc/release or whatever your distro uses
[08:28] <BROKEN_LADDER> you mean like ipchains?
[08:28] <psoulocybe> no, i just want my local ipaddress to be static
[08:28] <dilema> psoulocybe, that'd be the net file
[08:29] <psoulocybe> where is that?
[08:29] <dilema> where you set the static ip
[08:29] <dilema> and dhcp/dns
[08:29] <psoulocybe> i'm a little lost w/ the new kde
[08:29] <dilema> on ubuntu not really sure(funny you ask I was looking for it earlier)
[08:29] <psoulocybe> i can't find it anywhere
[08:29] <psoulocybe> and no one on my other linux channels has any idea either
[08:30] <psoulocybe> i figured someone on #kubuntu would know :)
[08:31] <dilema> on gentoo its /etc/conf.d/net
[08:31] <dilema> let me look
[08:31] <dilema> a bit harder
[08:31] <Clintology> dilema: he's saying.  like in ubuntu you go to System > Administration > Network Settings
[08:32] <dilema> Clintology, which is the same as modifing the net file
[08:32] <dilema> but on a more perm basis
[08:32] <Clintology> who wants to edit a file to change their IP though? :)
[08:32] <dilema> if he's looking for the GUI frotnend in KDE
[08:32] <psoulocybe> lol
[08:32] <dilema> I don't know
[08:32] <psoulocybe> yeah...  i don't
[08:33] <psoulocybe> in the last kde it was in kcontrol
[08:33] <psoulocybe> but now it's not here
[08:33] <Clintology> dilema: yes,  that was his question :)
[08:33] <dilema> heh
[08:33] <dilema> sorry
[08:33] <psoulocybe> if there is a command line way, i'm cool with that
[08:33] <dilema> psoulocybe, there is
[08:34] <psoulocybe> lol
[08:34] <psoulocybe> i love my router, but god i wish it gave ip addresses based on mac address... it made it so much easier
[08:34] <dilema> not wireless?
[08:34] <psoulocybe> it's wireless
[08:34] <dilema> huh
[08:34] <psoulocybe> but my computer isn't wireless
[08:34] <dilema> ahh
[08:35] <psoulocybe> :)
[08:35] <dilema> aight gimme a minute to find this puppy
[08:38] <dilema> wtf
[08:38] <dilema> where the hell is it
[08:38] <psoulocybe> i'm trying it in /etc/network/interfaces
[08:39] <psoulocybe> i figure i can specify address, netmask, and gateway... and i should be cool
[08:39] <dilema> ifconfig_eth0=(
[08:39] <dilema>         "<IP_ADDRESS> netmask <IP_ADDRESS>"
[08:39] <dilema> )
[08:39] <dilema> that
[08:39] <dilema> where <IP_ADDRESS> = your ip addy
[08:39] <psoulocybe> i have to specify my dns too don't i?
[08:40] <psoulocybe> shit
[08:40] <dilema> one sec
[08:40] <psoulocybe> i'm going to have to call my provider
[08:40] <dilema> heh
[08:40] <dilema> na ya shouldn't
[08:40] <dilema> routes_eth0=(
[08:40] <dilema>         "default gw <IP_ADDRESS>"
[08:40] <dilema> )
[08:40] <psoulocybe> i remember having to when i had my dsk setup
[08:40] <dilema> thats your router addy
[08:40] <psoulocybe> i'll try using <IP_ADDRESS>
[08:41] <dilema> check your router
[08:41] <dilema> it should have your dns
[08:41] <psoulocybe> oooh
[08:41] <psoulocybe> good idea
[08:41] <psoulocybe> thx
[08:41] <dilema> actualy ya don't need DNS
[08:41] <dilema> heh
[08:41] <Quinn_Storm> some routers have a (caching/proxy) dns server built in...so yeah try pointing dns at your router and see if that works
[08:41] <psoulocybe> really?
[08:42] <dilema> just your netmask/static ip addy/router gateway
[08:42] <dilema> psoulocybe, ya my net file doens't have dns enttries
[08:42] <dilema> and it's set up for statip ip
[08:42] <dilema> (on my gentoo box)
[08:42] <psoulocybe> hmm... when i save interfaces, do i have to restart anything to get changes to take effect?
[08:42] <dilema> so just modify/add what I pasted and ya should be good
[08:42] <dilema> yeah
[08:43] <dilema> restart net
[08:43] <dilema>  /etc/init.d/net restart
[08:43] <psoulocybe> that didn't work
[08:43] <dilema> the run ifconfig
[08:43] <dilema> huh
[08:43] <dilema>  /etc/init.d/networking restart?
[09:01] <psoulocybe> hmmm... definatly need dns servers for my isp
[09:01] <psoulocybe> don't know why... but i do
[09:02] <psoulocybe> had to reboot to get changes to interfaces too
[09:02] <psoulocybe> that was weird
[09:02] <psoulocybe> /etc/init.d/networking restart didnt' do it
[09:02] <dilema_> odd
[09:03] <dilema_> i dunno what the dns looks like
[09:03] <dilema_> wwell how to input dns
[09:03] <psoulocybe> yeah.. i'll google it
[09:17] <ztonzy> amu, morning
[09:34] <psoulocybe> i found out something not to try... and possibly a bug w/ kubuntu
[09:34] <psoulocybe> knetworkconf is the module you can apt-get for kconsole
[09:34] <psoulocybe> do not do it
[09:35] <psoulocybe> it's not compatible w/ hoary it seems... as it threw a number of bugs for me
[10:01] <Beuno> hey, Im using ubuntu, and Im trying to get kubuntu installed
[10:01] <Beuno> can anyone give me a hand?
[10:04] <ztonzy> Beuno, http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/faq.php
[10:04] <ztonzy> or :  "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop"
[10:04] <Beuno> yeah
[10:04] <Beuno> I did that
[10:04] <Beuno> I get this:
[10:04] <Beuno> kubuntu-desktop: Depends: python-gnome2 but it is not going to be installed
[10:04] <Beuno>                    Depends: python-imaging-sane but it is not going to be instal
[10:05] <ztonzy> hmm
[10:05] <ztonzy> install those first maybe ?
[10:06] <Beuno> well, I do get an error when trying to install those
[10:07] <ztonzy> Beuno, then I dont know :(
[10:07] <Beuno> ok, Ill keep on digging, thanks
[10:07] <ztonzy> Beuno, maybe do backup and install Kubuntu from scratch ?
[10:07] <ztonzy> I did that
[10:09] <memcmeme> greetings friends
[10:33] <lexNL> hiya guys
[10:33] <memcmeme> hiya
[10:33] <lexNL> I've installed the kubuntu beta.
[10:33] <lexNL> now, when I open "storage media" and click on a drive
[10:33] <lexNL> I get an error!
[10:33] <ztonzy> lexNL, install pmount
[10:34] <lexNL> pmount? with kynaptic i assume?
[10:34] <ztonzy> "apt-get install pmount"
[10:34] <haggai> maybe we should add that workaround page to the topic
[10:34] <ztonzy> or in konsole (terminal)
[10:34] <ztonzy> haggai, I wonder if it is a workaround rather than a plain miss
[10:34] <lexNL> oh yeah, not sure where to put this, but on a normal install, with K3B, I had to install cdrdao manually
[10:35] <haggai> ztonzy: I don't get you.  I mean workaround as in working around a known problem
[10:36] <ztonzy> haggai, I had same problems before...after browsing and goggling I first did modprobe usb-storage and then edited my fstab, then amu told me to install 'pmount' instead (I think it was he who told me to do that)
[10:37] <ztonzy> well...
[10:37] <ztonzy> I dont know everything, it is just a hunch
[10:37] <haggai> ztonzy: but if kubuntu had installed pmount by default, there would be no problem, right?
[10:37] <ztonzy> haggai, true
[10:38] <lexNL> ztonzy: I've installed pmount... I should reboot, or ...?
[10:38] <ztonzy> dont know if you need to "modprobe pmount"
[10:39] <ztonzy> but I would try the storage media first
[10:40] <ztonzy> I also wished this would work as default Ubuntu (with Gnome) that the drives(media) loads on desktop by auto...as on the Gnome desktop (I used Ubuntu before)
[10:40] <lexNL> ztonzy: yeah, I was impressed with that too.
[10:41] <lexNL> but I'm more a kde guy so...
[10:42] <ztonzy> lexNL, same here
[10:42] <haggai> ztonzy: bring it up on the mailing list (about icons on the desktop) and we'll see what the concensus is.  I quite like the icons too
[10:42] <haggai> you guys do know it can be turned on in control centre, right?
[10:42] <lexNL> ztonzy: the media:// still complains about fstab orso. the modprobe pmount gives an "pmount not found" error
[10:42] <ztonzy> haggai, oops :)
[10:43] <ztonzy> lexNL, aah...maybe a reboot is at hand then
[10:43] <lexNL> hehehe :) ok... Will try that. Should I put pmount in some modules config file orso? to make sure that it loads?
[10:43] <haggai> I don't think it is a module
[10:44] <ztonzy> LOL
[10:44] <ztonzy> haggai, thanks...sorry :)
[10:44] <ztonzy> I think pmount has to do with hal-stuff...but I dunno
[10:44] <haggai> that's right
[10:44] <haggai> the user needs to be a member of the 'plugdev' group
[10:45] <lexNL> haggai: is that so by default, or should I do some user-group magic?
[10:45] <haggai> lexNL: should be by default.  'id <your-username>' to check
[10:46] <lexNL> yep, it is.
[10:46] <lexNL> thanks.
[10:46] <lexNL> I'll be going for a reboot. back in a sec.
[10:46] <haggai> back later
[10:50] <lexNL> ztonzy: nope, no succes
[10:50] <lexNL> still get fstab error
[10:55] <ztonzy> hmm
[10:55] <ztonzy> I have lines in fstab, but I commented them out
[10:56] <lexNL> yeah... i guess the idea is that pmount /dev/hda2 mounts it automatically in /media orso... but it doesn't seem like media:// actually uses pmount
[10:56] <lexNL> because it still gives errors about /etc/fstab
[10:58] <ztonzy> usb-sticks here get loaded as /dev/sda1  or sdb1/
[10:58] <lexNL> i could try a usb-stick, but my normal harddisk partition won't even work yet :)
[10:59] <lexNL> well, besides the / dir obviously
[10:59] <lexNL> (and it does work when I mount manually as well)
[10:59] <ztonzy> funny, suddenly I got loads of media loaded (harddisks)
[10:59] <spiral> hi
[11:00] <lexNL> media:// does recognize my memory stick.
[11:00] <lexNL> and it actually mounts it as well
[11:00] <lexNL> Impressive
[11:00] <lexNL> now the partitions
[11:00] <lexNL> nope, still nothing there.
[11:00] <ztonzy> lexNL, yepp, that is what we wanted for you
[11:00] <lexNL> but the memorystick works!
[11:02] <lexNL> the thing still does not work with /dev/hda6 for example, my big data partition.
[11:02] <ztonzy> lexNL, is usb-storage  loaded when you do 'lsmod' ?
[11:02] <ztonzy> usb_storage  I mean
[11:02] <lexNL> yep, part of the scsi_mod thing
[11:02] <lexNL> and ide_core
[11:03] <lexNL> and as itself
[11:03] <ztonzy> mine is also loaded by itselg
[11:03] <ztonzy> itself*
[11:03] <ztonzy> what mainboard type ?
[11:03] <lexNL> yep, looked over it, but it is here as well.
[11:03] <lexNL> mainboard as in motherboard? An asus amd64 mobo.
[11:03] <ztonzy> oh, better than mine...got a Asus kt600
[11:04] <lexNL> k8v se here.
[11:04] <lexNL> not sure if it is any better - or any good at all - but it seems to work
[11:06] <ztonzy> I had Huge problems with my former mobo...a Shuttle with nforce2 ultra...network and filesystem error...
[11:06] <lexNL> (ok, I'll edit the fstab, probably the easiest way out.)
[11:06] <ztonzy> sold it and bought this little more than a week ago
[11:07] <lexNL> I actually had a asus k8n (i think it was) that only worked a day with my amd64, then it never booted up again.
[11:07] <lexNL> another asus k8n mobo also didn't work.
[11:07] <ztonzy> ack
[11:14] <lexNL> ok, that is better.
[11:15] <lexNL> now, I've always have to chown alex.alex my /mnt/hda2 directory, before I can write to it when the partition is mounted.
[11:15] <lexNL> is there a nicer way to do that?
[11:18] <lexNL> oh, have to go offline. Thanks for your help ztonzy!
[11:18] <lexNL> bye!
[11:18] <ztonzy> hmm bye! :D
[11:19] <ztonzy> too late...
[11:28] <pepsi> howdy hi
[11:28] <pepsi> i installed kubuntu
[11:28] <pepsi> and now my fonts are all borked in gnome..
[11:29] <pepsi> no antialiasing
[11:54] <buz> hi
[11:54] <buz> how can i figure out what color depth my system runs on? color gradients (like on the login page) seem very rough...
[11:58] <spiral> hi
[12:56] <ztonzy> apokryphos, hey
[12:56] <apokryphos> mornin' :)
[12:57] <ztonzy> oh
[12:58] <snk00sj> hello, i am trying to get my nforce2 sound working on kde3.4
[12:58] <ztonzy> ;)
[12:58] <snk00sj> anyone ever did that before ? :p
[12:58] <ztonzy> snk00sj, sorry no...I throwed my crappy nforce2 ;) - seriously...there was an error on it...now KT600 :)
[12:59] <snk00sj> i saw alot of people on google trying to get it running, but no succes stories
[01:00] <ztonzy> snk00sj, sorry about that
[01:01] <snk00sj> its not your fault
[01:01] <ztonzy> :)
[01:05] <snk00sj> heh, its working
[01:05] <snk00sj> :)
[01:05] <apokryphos> cool
[01:05] <snk00sj> what did i do ? i just plugged out my usb headset and rebooted :)
[01:07] <ztonzy> sorry for being offtopic...but have anyone tried "Skype"  successfully?
[01:08] <snk00sj> on win i did :)
[01:08] <ztonzy> and with linux, I saw Skype-compliant headsets yesterday
[01:08] <ztonzy> :)
[01:08] <ztonzy> got curious
[01:08] <_P_> i used  skype
[01:08] <_P_> on debian  some  time  ago
[01:08] <snk00sj> what windowmanagers are you guys using ?
[01:08] <_P_> on kubuntu  not  yet
[01:08] <snk00sj> i need something leet, with alot of transparancy & easy configgin :)
[01:09] <Beineri> snk00sj: kwin
[01:09] <apokryphos> kwin
[01:09] <ztonzy> snk00sj, kde 3.4 of course :p
[01:09] <ztonzy> _P_, and it worked well ?
[01:10] <_P_> yes
[01:10] <_P_> impressive
[01:11] <ztonzy> :)
[01:11] <ztonzy> anyone know what webcam works best with linux?
[01:12] <ztonzy> and is there any kde based similar tool as gnome-meeting ?
[01:13] <_P_> ztonzy:  gnomemeeting  is  the  one  and the  best
[01:13] <apokryphos> ztonzy: not as advanced, I don't think.
[01:13] <apokryphos> ztonzy: I have a Logitech, and that works reasonably when I can take the dust off it.
[01:13] <ztonzy> _P_, ah ok
[01:13] <apokryphos> Google might help
[01:13] <ztonzy> apokryphos, hehe...what model ?
[01:13] <ztonzy> apokryphos, true
[01:14] <apokryphos> will have to see if I can find the box; actual webcam only says "Logitech"
[01:15] <ztonzy> I borrowed a kodak ez200 a while, but I dont have it no more...it was tricky but I managed to get drivers going, but bad quality...but in windows superb and one of the better cams around (using CCD instead of CMOS)
[01:16] <apokryphos> I doubt I'll find the box, but it's old enough for them to not seem to sell it anymore on: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/productlist/US/EN,crid=2203
[01:17] <hoschbert> hi
[01:18] <ztonzy> apokryphos, hmm which one of them ??
[01:18] <apokryphos> (but here it is: http://tinyurl.com/6n4t9)
[01:18] <apokryphos> ztonzy: none of those; they don't seem to sell it *there*. I imagine the newer ones will likely work... might be better checking google though)
[01:18] <apokryphos> hoschbert: hi :)
[01:18] <ztonzy> aaah
[01:18] <ztonzy> apokryphos, old model
[01:18] <apokryphos> yeah
[01:18] <ztonzy> I was thinkinf of a Creative model
[01:19] <hoschbert> the menufont in firefox for example is very very small ... how can i change it without changing the screenresolution plz?
[01:19] <detached> can you tell me how to activate the root account on kubuntu?
[01:19] <hoschbert> tried everything with fonts and menus in "lost and found"
[01:19] <hoschbert> sudo passwd root
[01:19] <apokryphos> Pyre: tell detached ubusudo
[01:19] <Pyre> detached: http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[01:19] <hoschbert> btw
[01:20] <apokryphos> hoschbert: you want the gtk2-engines-gtk-qt package
[01:20] <detached> Pyre: thanks !
[01:20] <detached> but do you recommend activating it ?
[01:20] <apokryphos> nope
[01:20] <ztonzy> apokryphos, "Creative Webcam NX Pro"  my idea
[01:20] <detached> or it's better with sudo?
[01:20] <apokryphos> detached: no need
[01:21] <detached> apokryphos: oke
[01:21] <hoschbert> k, i try this, thx
[01:21] <apokryphos> ztonzy: looks very nice :)
[01:21] <ztonzy> apokryphos, and a nice price in a e-shop over here
[01:22] <apokryphos> sweet
[01:22] <ztonzy> fairely compared to other stores
[01:23] <apokryphos> hoschbert: with that package you can alter gtk fonts from kcontrol
[01:24] <nohar> has anyone managed to make the "window shortcut" kwin feature work ?
[01:25] <apokryphos> nohar: to press Win as a shortcut?
[01:25] <nohar> non
[01:25] <nohar> right clic on a window title
[01:25] <nohar> and see window shortcut menu entry
[01:25] <nohar> in advanced menu
[01:26] <nohar> this thingy used to work
[01:26] <nohar> (and is life changing imho)
[01:26] <apokryphos> works fine here
[01:26] <nohar> you activate the windows with the shortcut ?
[01:26] <apokryphos> yup
[01:27] <nohar> rha :/
[01:27] <apokryphos> what's happening? Is it not letting you select something as a shortcut?
[01:27] <nohar> the keypress does nothing
[01:27] <apokryphos> nohar: does it imply that it has applied the shortcut? As in, does the apply shortcut window disappear?
[01:28] <nohar> no it's supposed to activate it only
[01:28] <nohar> i found the problem
[01:28] <nohar> it's more anoying
[01:28] <nohar> it's not working with every shortcut :/
[01:29] <nohar> shift-f1 does not work for instance
[01:29] <nohar> with kde 3.3 i used to have F1 bound to a konsole no modifier
[01:29] <apokryphos> no, I really do think it's meant to only activate it. What else is it meant to do?
[01:30] <nohar> "no, I really do think it's meant to only activate it." We agree on that
[01:30] <apokryphos> right
[01:30] <nohar> and that is not working if you chose the shortcut Shift-F1
[01:30] <nohar> try it :)
[01:30] <apokryphos> F1 is likely taken up by something else in your system tray
[01:31] <apokryphos> it works with Shift-F1
[01:31] <apokryphos> though that doesn't necessarily mean it'll work for you
[01:31] <nohar> hum
[01:31] <apokryphos> Try applying something obscure, like... Win-U
[01:31] <nohar> wierd then
[01:31] <nohar> that works
[01:32] <apokryphos> ;)
[01:32] <ztonzy> anyone using wacom with Kubuntu ? and if...how did you do to get it work easy... ?
[01:32] <nohar> that's what i told you, it's not working with every shortcut
[01:32] <nohar> for an obscure reason
[01:33] <apokryphos> Not obscure reason :). The shortcut is already applied elsewhere.
[01:33] <netdur> hey, I'm on hoary, if I installed kubuntu, will KDE app get it place at Gnome menu?
[01:35] <apokryphos> I don't recall if the problem with adding things to menus was fixed in Gnome...
[01:35] <yuxel`> hi, i've a problem when updating from sid
[01:35] <yuxel`> 1- i cannot see any item on kmenu as -> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/kubuntu_kde.jpg
[01:35] <yuxel`> 2- an error occured on settings:/ on kde
[01:35] <yuxel`> 3- i cannot see anything o kcontrol
[01:36] <yuxel`> 4- cant see anything on applications:/ on kde
[01:36] <nohar> an awful lot of key shortcut are impossible to set
[01:36] <nohar> even some not used anywhere
[01:36] <netdur> I don't want KDE add it's apps to Gnome menu, I want it stay clean
[01:36] <nohar> there's a real problem :/
[01:37] <apokryphos> nohar: if they're used in kcontrol, then you likely can't apply 'em.
[01:37] <teprrr> hmm, is there somewhere a list of available packages?
[01:37] <teprrr> something like packages.debian.org but for ubuntu..
[01:37] <apokryphos> teprrr: archive.ubuntu.com
[01:37] <nohar> apokryphos: windows-anything does not work
[01:37] <nohar> tried 'j' 'u' 'a'
[01:38] <apokryphos> nohar: but you just said a second ago that it did. :)
[01:38] <nohar> apokryphos: yes but i didn't try this particular one
[01:38] <apokryphos> teprrr: I don't think it's searchable yet, though.
[01:38] <nohar> i tried alt-a
[01:38] <nohar> which works
[01:38] <nohar> i assumed the same for win-u w/o trying
[01:38] <nohar> i was wrong
[01:38] <apokryphos> Most of the ones I'm trying are working... how about Win-X
[01:39] <apokryphos> *Z
[01:39] <nohar> nop
[01:39] <nohar> plus in the title windows
[01:39] <nohar> instead of { key shortcut }
[01:39] <nohar> there is {}
[01:39] <apokryphos> Yup, because no shortcut is applied, likely.
[01:40] <apokryphos> Keep trying a few keys; I'm sure some will pop-up.
[01:40] <nohar> i know some work
[01:42] <nohar> apokryphos: in kcontrol/khotkeys it works
[01:43] <nohar> i'm pretty sure it's a bug
[01:43] <nohar> not anoying to me cause it works in khotkeys
[01:43] <apokryphos> I'm not having any problem here, so I don't really know.
[01:45] <apokryphos> yuxel`: have you seen some of the articles on the site? Sid -> hoary isn't really supported, but you might find something of value there.
[01:46] <apokryphos> there have been a few success stories
[01:47] <no0tic> I have installed Ubuntu hoary preview, there are problems apt-getting kubuntu-desktop metapackage?
[01:47] <apokryphos> no0tic: what's the problem?
[01:48] <no0tic> apokryphos: sorry, are there problems? :)
[01:48] <apokryphos> no0tic: see /topic
[01:48] <no0tic> apokryphos: ;)
[01:48] <apokryphos> Running very smoothly here.
[01:49] <no0tic> apokryphos: installing kubuntu-desktop onto a preinstalled ubuntu system will I get both kde & gnome running fine?
[01:49] <apokryphos> That's right; you will.
[01:50] <no0tic> apokryphos: very cool :)
[01:50] <no0tic> apokryphos: thanks
[01:50] <apokryphos> np :)
[01:50] <amiroff> hey guys, everyday more and more people here, great!
[01:51] <apokryphos> yup 8). Haven't seen it hit 60 before...
[01:51] <no0tic> are there arguments between kubuntu developers & ubuntu's?
[01:51] <no0tic> apokryphos: 61 ;)
[01:52] <apokryphos> no0tic: kubuntu devs are ubuntu devs. :)
[01:52] <sangria1> I have a problem. Users can't login except in failsafe mode. Use kdm
[01:53] <no0tic> apokryphos: so it's only a different default installation, eventually
[01:53] <sangria1> any idea?
[01:54] <apokryphos> no0tic: precisely. Terminology is a little confusing (because, say, there is no gubuntu, but this is clarified on the wiki, pretty much).
[01:55] <no0tic> apokryphos: great, thanks for your willingness
[01:55] <apokryphos> np :)
[01:56] <apokryphos> sangria1: have you tried adding a new user?
[01:56] <apokryphos> current permissions might be mucked up...
[01:59] <snk00sj> does anyone know the name of the packages i need for the x included ?
[01:59] <snk00sj> includes ?
[01:59] <snk00sj> xorg-devel is not it
[01:59] <teprrr> apokryphos, okay, thanks
[02:00] <apokryphos> snk00sj: x dev packages? libx11-dev I think it is
[02:01] <snk00sj> ahh yes !
[02:01] <snk00sj> :)
[02:01] <snk00sj> tnx man !
[02:01] <apokryphos> no worries :)
[02:01] <snk00sj> kinda new at this :)
[02:06] <sangria1> apokryphos: I have
[02:06] <sangria1> let me try again
[02:08] <snk00sj> checking for libz...configure: error: not found
[02:08] <snk00sj> Possibly configure picks up an outdated version installed by XFree86. Remove it from your system.
[02:11] <apokryphos> someone had this problem yesterday; looking back on the log, I think installing zlib1g and zlib1g-dev worked
[02:12] <apokryphos> heh, same.
[02:13] <sangria1> apkryphos
[02:13] <sangria1> same problem even after creating new user
[02:13] <apokryphos> hmm
[02:14] <sangria1> root can normally login, but not the users
[02:14] <detached> when i try to install yahoo messenger i get some dependency errors >>> Package libgdk-pixbuf2 is not installed. Package libglib1.2 is not installed. Package libgtk1.2 is not installed. Package libssl0.9.6 is not installed. >>> how can i get the packages ?
[02:14] <sangria1> :-(
[02:15] <apokryphos> sangria1: I don't really know.. I'd recommend trying in #ubuntu
[02:17] <detached> when i try to install yahoo messenger i get some dependency errors >>> Package libgdk-pixbuf2 is not installed. Package libglib1.2 is not installed. Package libgtk1.2 is not installed. Package libssl0.9.6 is not installed. >>> how can i get the packages ?
[02:17] <apokryphos> detached: does apt not have them?
[02:17] <apokryphos> detached: though, why not use kopete?
[02:18] <detached> oke apokryphos  i'll try kopete
[02:18] <detached> downloading...
[02:18] <snk00sj> tell me something guys, i am kinda new at linux
[02:18] <snk00sj> if i post compile errors here, everyone can tell me wich package i need
[02:19] <snk00sj> how do i find out myself wich package i need for wich error ?
[02:21] <apokryphos> snk00sj: several ways. A lot of the time the package will be in apt; Google helps a *lot* sometimes (ideally, people should consult it before the channel); synaptic search for "provided packages", too.
[02:21] <snk00sj> so you copy paste the error in google, if that doesn't really give you help ?
[02:22] <snk00sj> configure: WARNING: libjpeg not found disable JPEG support
[02:22] <apokryphos> I have many times, yes.
[02:22] <snk00sj> checking for Qt...configure: error : QT (>= Qt 3.1) headers & libs not found
[02:22] <snk00sj> apokryphos i am doing this all the time, and i see people reacting to forum threads
[02:22] <snk00sj> "you need this and that package"
[02:22] <snk00sj> and then i try em all, and reconfigure
[02:23] <apokryphos> snk00sj: the first one I'm sure you can guess
[02:23] <snk00sj> but there must be an easier way to debug the packages i need
[02:23] <apokryphos> snk00sj: there's a lot about the second on google
[02:23] <snk00sj> apt-get install libjpeg
[02:24] <apokryphos> Probably do apt-cache search <packagename> to find out the exact name
[02:24] <apokryphos> It's not always that you necessarily need a package; sometimes a variable isn't defined etc.
[02:27] <apokryphos> in #kde: <sangria1> I am getting a weird problem on my SimplyMEPIS distro.
[02:27] <apokryphos> heh
[02:32] <snk00sj> thanks for the help apo
[02:32] <snk00sj> helped me alot, if i do a apt-cache search i look for all packages matching the name
[02:32] <snk00sj> is there a way to view wich are installed and wich not ?
[02:33] <snk00sj> locate ?
[02:33] <apokryphos> There's two ways
[02:33] <apokryphos> dpkg -l | grep <packagename>
[02:34] <apokryphos> apt-cache pkgnames | grep <packagename> -- that's to see what's installed
[02:34] <apokryphos> I'd recommend you using Synaptic, however. That'll be clearer/easier.
[02:37] <snk00sj> ok i'll try that
[02:43] <alm> anyone have any good suggestion for a firewall?  Something with a GUI would be good
[02:51] <snk00sj> i tried installing some new themes for my kde3.4
[02:51] <snk00sj> everything configured fine, make & make isntall worked fine
[02:51] <snk00sj> but i cannot see em in the theme manager, anyone an idea how i can trace this thingie ?
[02:55] <apokryphos> did you specify the prefix on the configure?
[03:43] <\sh> guys, anyone working on the qinx style for kde?
[04:42] <teprrr> hmm, shouldn't kubuntu run kpersonalizer when starting kde first time after installation?
[04:43] <Telep> teprrr: in the "ubuntu" spirit I'd guess not.
[04:43] <Telep> the whole point is to have good defaults, not have to personalize immediately
[04:44] <teprrr> well, umm, at least the fonts sucks.. :P
[04:44] <teprrr> and I think antialiasing could be turned on as default too :P
[04:45] <Telep> true, don't know why it isn't
[04:49] <Riddell> teprrr: that's on my todo list
[04:49] <Riddell> Telep: because I havn't had time to investigate how
[04:49] <teprrr> hmm, I would suggest syncing the selection and qt's clipboard as default too
[04:49] <Riddell> teprrr: hell no
[04:49] <teprrr> um, why?
[04:49] <Riddell> that is the number 1 source for beastie reports to trolltech
[04:49] <Telep> Riddell: ok
[04:50] <teprrr> I think most regular users will get confused when they cannot paste what they've copied
[04:50] <Riddell> users will get confused when they control-C copy then end up pasting what the mouse has just selected
[04:54] <BamaJank> mdz
[04:54] <teprrr> umh, well, most of the time I see people complaining about why the clipboard doesn't work right.. :P
[04:54] <teprrr> maybe disabling the whole selection would be a choice, but not very good one...
[04:55] <BamaJank> anyone know if the links for the "CD"s up at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/hoary/preview/ are actually DVDs?
[04:57] <Telep> BamaJank: they're cd's
[04:57] <\sh> in what package are the x includes?
[04:57] <BamaJank> Why is it reporting 1,018mb to put on a CD?
[04:58] <Telep> BamaJank: reporting where? Looking at the full list of files at the bottom of the page, 637M is the largest I can see
[04:59] <teprrr> the menu looks pretty slick though :p
[04:59] <teprrr> nice one
[04:59] <BamaJank> I am in Windows and Nero reports to burn the ISO requires 1,018mb
[05:00] <\sh> what packages i have to install for kde development?
[05:00] <Telep> BamaJank: sounds weird, sorry I can't help with that... which one did you download?
[05:00] <BamaJank> The torrent for ix86 Telep
[05:01] <BamaJank> I will figure it out, but for a moment I wondered if some were DVDs, I even returned to the link to double check
[05:12] <Quinn_Storm> question...the kubuntu kdenetwork package...was it built without mdnsresponder/dnssd/zeroconf support?  if so, are there any plans to change that?  according to kde's website, the apple mDNSresponder that's necessary for it is now under the BSD license so its compatible with the DFSG...(and it compiles/installs cleanly with little/no effort on my kubuntu system at least)
[05:20] <\sh> what is the best way to get an updated kde-devel package if you installed kubuntu-desktop?
[05:20] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: kde-devel 3.4 isn't in the ubuntu/kubuntu repositories yet
[05:21] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, so theres no way to develop for 3.4?
[05:21] <\sh> right now?
[05:21] <b-_-d> just ran md5 sum I the amd64 livecd
[05:22] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: you'd have to get & compile 3.4 yourself from kde sources as far as I know...I think they are working on fixing that though...it'll partly depend on when debian sid gets the packages too...b/c if they get them then it will be trivial for the ubuntu devs to add them
[05:22] <b-_-d> getting the i386 livecd
[05:22] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, so kdelibs4 is what?
[05:22] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: huh? kdelibs4 is the current kdelibs package (in hoary its 3.4 right now)
[05:23] <b-_-d> amd64 livecd will be posted on a fast server today
[05:23] <\sh> ok..this i need :)
[05:23] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, is kubuntu not based on the main packages?
[05:24] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: note that in typical debian parlance, the kdelibs4 is just the binaries, if you want the headers and stuff you need kdelibs4-dev.  and no, kubuntu is, at least as far as I know, newer than the current debian sid packages
[05:24] <Beineri> \sh: what's wrong with kdelivs4-dev?
[05:24] <\sh> Beineri, nothing, i need the dev packages
[05:24] <\sh> for 3.4
[05:24] <Beineri> \sh: install them :-)
[05:25] <\sh> Beineri, so kdelibs4-dev ;)
[05:25] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: kdelibs4-dev is 3.4 right now so you can use it
[05:25] <\sh> i need my qinx theme for kde ;)
[05:25] <Beineri> \sh: and kdebase-dev
[05:25] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: qinx came with my kubuntu-desktop...or is it a special qinx?
[05:26] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, i don't have any qinx here, and i installed on hoary the kubuntu desktop
[05:26] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: oh, install kdeartwork
[05:26] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: its not in kubuntu-desktop by default
[05:27] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, hmmm..qinx is not default in kde
[05:27] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: its in the kdeartwork package, I promise, I didn't compile from source and I am using hoary myself
[05:28] <\sh> hmmm
[05:28] <Beineri> Quinn_Storm: what do you do if you cannot fulfill your promise?
[05:28] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: specifically I think its in the kdeartwork-style sub-package, but if you install kdeartwork that'll include it
[05:29] <\sh> ok
[05:29] <Quinn_Storm> oh hell -.-
[05:29] <Quinn_Storm> ignore everything I said
[05:29] <Quinn_Storm> I must have been brain-dead
[05:29] <Quinn_Storm> I am so sorry
[05:29] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, ??
[05:30] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: I thought I had it...let me look up a repository with it for you
[05:32] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: I had a moment of stupidity.  this looks like it has a package if 1.2-2 is okay with you. http://debian.neo.pl/ - the sources.list line would be deb http://debian.neo.pl/wfmh unstable main contrib non-free
[05:33] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: I should learn to check before I speak...I trusted my memory and was remembering wrong, it doesn't come with kdeartwork...I'm sorry
[05:33] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, well...no problem, i know this :)
[05:34] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, 1.3 is out :) btw :) u r the maintainer?
[05:34] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: no I'm not unfortunately, or I'd have 1.3 up there, heh
[05:34] <teprrr> hmm, there's no kdetv for kubuntu?
[05:34] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: I do like qinx though and know why you want it, heh
[05:35] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, for the laptop its the best, imho
[05:35] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: its nice for a low-powered system too
[05:36] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, well..finally i'm a ubuntu user for now 2 hours ;) and to recreate your fav. workplace it's quite hard...for my ~x86 gentoo it was easy to do :)
[05:36] <Beineri> teprrr: add to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuSuggestedPackages :-)
[05:37] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: well at least you're not afraid of compiling stuff, hehe.  I hate waiting for stuff to compile, that's why I'm a (k)ubunu user myself...debian seems to be the best base for a linux distro out there right now, and the k/ubuntu teams are doing great work on top of it
[05:37] <teprrr> Beineri, oh. thanks :)
[05:37] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, well...I like debian for servers in datacenters, but I'm running a serverfarm only with gentoo servers
[05:38] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, and I was searching for an easy to setup laptop solution :)
[05:39] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: my experience has been that debian is quite nice for a desktop thanks to the magic of apt (and the behind-the-scenes work all the maintainers do to make sure just about every single package "just works")
[05:39] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, and this wasn't like this when I had debian on my desktop...so i switched from debian to gentoo 3 years ago
[05:40] <\sh> and now my laptop runs with ubuntu :)
[05:40] <\sh> usability debian ;)
[05:41] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: ahh, well with debian these days, especially ubuntu/kubuntu, debian seems quite nice...I've only been using debian for like a year or so now...started with ubuntu/kubuntu like a month ago...I've tried a few others (even freebsd), but I like debian-based best.  I started linux with slackware many years ago now
[05:41] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, hehe...1993 :)
[05:41] <\sh> suse slackware ;)
[05:42] <teprrr> hmm, kdesdk seems to be still kde 3.3.2 insetad of 3.4 :P
[05:42] <teprrr> like kde-i18n's too
[05:42] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: I could never get suse to install right...I had a short experience with redhat but I didn't like it much...tried out gentoo but got fed up with waiting for stuff (even on an athlon 1.2ghz/512MB ram)
[05:42] <\sh> kdesdk4?
[05:42] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: there isn't a kdesdk4 pkg yet
[05:42] <Quinn_Storm> teprrr: yeah they haven't packaged all of kde3.4 yet it only just came out
[05:42] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, oh, but it was logical ;)
[05:43] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, well...I was employed at redhat and at this time there wasn't any fedora at all...so the distri was nice...but now
[05:44] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: I just didn't like the setup much...and I tend to agree with the DFSG, being a bit of a Freedom nut myself so I don't mind debian...(though I have to admit I do use some non-Free packages)
[05:44] <Quinn_Storm> I think we all install the flashplayer
[05:44] <Quinn_Storm> if nothing else for homestarrunner.com
[05:45] <\sh> hmm..i should stop now with working on the computer and should watch constantine
[05:45] <teprrr> Quinn_Storm, yes I know it just came out :P
[05:45] <Quinn_Storm> lol...I've heard that was a good movie...haven't seen it yet
[05:46] <\sh> Quinn_Storm, i don't know..i will check it out...if the svcd implementation is working in totem ;)
[05:47] <Quinn_Storm> \sh: heh, it probably is...if not try some other players (kaffeine, mplayer, etc.) ... you may have to install stuff from an extra repository
[05:47] <\sh> but i must say, the locale configuration in ubuntu is really nice :)
[05:47] <\sh> mplayer is not working, i tried it with a normal mpg movie
[05:47] <\sh> but i have to check what it is
[05:47] <Quinn_Storm> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main - install mplayer-whatever from there
[05:48] <\sh> will check it later...right now i have to relax...i'm feeling like getting a flu
[05:49] <Quinn_Storm> yuck
[05:54] <teprrr> hmm, is there easy way to use 8859-1(5) instead of utf8?
[06:01] <ggilbert> oh I love the latest kde build. Prompts you to turn off things like the slow keys gestures :)
[06:02] <ztonzy> Riddell, do you know anything about exporting to image gallery from Tools menu in Konqueror ?  something than have been taken out or needs to be added extra to KDE ?
[06:02] <Beineri> ztonzy: kdeaddons 3.4 is not yet packaged
[06:02] <ztonzy> Beineri, hmmm  ok
[06:02] <Beineri> ztonzy: you could install kdeaddons 3.3.2 though
[06:04] <Riddell> ztonzy: it's in kdeaddons konq-plugins (which has not been upgraded to 3.4 and has file conflicts)
[06:05] <ztonzy> Riddell, hm ok...the kdaddons doesnt seems to want to be installed either
[06:09] <AMIGrAve> does the ksayit app has aloready packaged ?
[06:10] <Riddell> AMIGrAve: kmouth?
[06:10] <Beineri> AMIGrAve: not 3.4 at least
[06:11] <Beineri> and wasn't in kdeaccessibility 3.3 it seems
[06:12] <teprrr> ksayit is in 3.4
[06:14] <AMIGrAve> Riddell: Beineri : thanks
[06:19] <Roey> hi
[06:19] <Roey> haggai:  hi! you're here too??
[06:20] <Roey> how do I clear my MBR?
[06:21] <amiroff> Roey: under windows or linux?
[06:22] <Roey> linux.
[06:22] <buga> Roey: if you want a standard boot record, use install-mbr from the mbr package
[06:22] <amiroff> Roey: and fixmbr does that under windows
[06:23] <Roey> I have two Raptor disks in a raid1 array.  I want to install Ubuntu on one disk, and on bootup I don't want the mbr from the other disk to get in the way of booting
[06:23] <Roey> to ubuntu
[06:23] <Roey> in other words, I don't want this disk to be bootable.
[06:27] <buga> if you can choose first disk in the BIOS, you are lucky. otherwise install-mbr has a --drive parameter
[06:31] <Telep> mit se hpj?
[06:31] <Telep> oops
[06:32] <Telep> wrong channel :D
[06:46] <amiroff> guys, how to set KDE_NO_IPV6=true permanetly on KDE?
[06:49] <AMIGrAve> anyone here using firefox on their gmail account ? When I save files using Download link for attachements in gmail the file is actually not saved !? very strange. Wile selecting an image on any website using save image as will work I know it sounds very odd.
[06:50] <buga> amiroff: it's not the kde way, but you can use /etc/environment file
[06:51] <amiroff> buga: thanks I already got and answer: export KDE_NO_IPV6=1
[06:51] <amiroff> ~/.kde/env/noipv6.sh. Create it and add "export KDE_NO_IPV6=1" there
[07:01] <b-_-d> the live cd is crashing here
[07:01] <b-_-d> is it loading the nvidia driver?
[07:05] <Play> http://www.playzero.com/
[07:10] <Glin|Jol> i just installed kubuntu
[07:10] <Glin|Jol> i am trying to make changes to my kde menu but none of my changes are saved
[07:10] <Glin|Jol> i am using the command kmenuedit
[07:10] <Glin|Jol> any ideas?
[07:16] <amiroff> guys, what is the most popular irc app for KDE ?
[07:17] <Glin|Jol> i use xchat
[07:18] <manchine> amiroff: konversation
[07:18] <amiroff> manchine: yes, currently using it, seems ok
[07:18] <manchine> xchat is too much gtk (that is to say, DULL,)
[07:18] <Glin|Jol> manchine: heh true
[07:19] <amiroff> Glin|Jol: we're making a KDE distro to ditribute to our friends so, all apps must be qt based ..
[07:19] <Glin|Jol> yeah qt i would go konversation
[07:20] <manchine> amiroff: wise choice. ppl of refined eyecandy taste ;)
[07:20] <manchine> i'd never install ubuntu without this new K prefix
[07:22] <manchine> one thing that keeps on puzzling me... does ubuntu bundles any genearalk admin GUI tools?
[07:22] <manchine> otherwise, i see it as debian made a bit more easy
[07:23] <amiroff> manchine: well, that is the deal for kde devs isn't it?
[07:23] <amiroff> manchine: I never had latest kde so early on debian before
[07:23] <amiroff> manchine: so I am all for kubuntu/ubuntu, and I love other desktops too
[07:24] <manchine> amiroff: neither do i
[07:24] <manchine> but that was not my question
[07:24] <manchine> anything in the ubuntu world similar to mandrake control center or redhat's config tools?
[07:25] <amiroff> manchine: I don't think so
[07:26] <manchine> i can do most things regardless od distro, but i'm wondering about newbies
[07:26] <manchine> of
[07:26] <amiroff> manchine: for example there are gnome system tools and other gtk tools on ubuntu
[07:26] <amiroff> like network config, and app installing
[07:26] <amiroff> but for now, no qt counterparts afaik
[07:27] <psn> amiroff: kynaptic for app install
[07:27] <amiroff> psn: well, that is under heavy development for now, but it works
[07:29] <manchine> i still prefer the prompt
[07:29] <manchine> though i am much more a GUIk than a geek
[07:30] <amiroff> anyways, I think kubuntu/ubuntu duo will lead the linux distros in future
[07:31] <manchine> that is not the war to Win
[07:31] <manchine> i became atheist about distros
[07:31] <manchine> specialy subdistros
[07:31] <manchine> and subsubdistros
[07:32] <manchine> there are basicaly 3 ways of packing up a linux kernel and the gnu tools: slackware, debian and rpm-based
[07:33] <billytwowilly> HI, I'm hoping someone knows how to fix this. I'm trying to set kaffiene as the player of choice for avi files, but the settings won't save. Whenever I close the file associations app they revert to broken.
[07:33] <manchine> ohh yes, a 4th one
[07:33] <manchine> the masochist
[07:33] <manchine> gentoo
[07:33] <billytwowilly> tar.gz
[07:34] <manchine> src based
[07:36] <billytwowilly> this file associations thing is really frustrating me... I've run into this bug every once in a while since the2.x kde's
[07:36] <wjesusaxl> hey guys I have some problems trying to install kubuntu-desktop
[07:37] <wjesusaxl> guys!
[07:38] <Glin|Jol> whats your problem
[07:38] <wjesusaxl> I have so many unmet depencies
[07:38] <wjesusaxl> dependencies
[07:38] <Glin|Jol> did you install from the cd?
[07:38] <wjesusaxl> http://www.pastebin.com/260645
[07:40] <wjesusaxl> Nop
[07:40] <wjesusaxl> apt-get install
[07:40] <wjesusaxl> I got it from hoary repository
[07:41] <billytwowilly> If you have universe and metaverse (multiverse?) as repositories then you shouldn't have unmet dependencies..
[07:41] <Glin|Jol> billytwowilly: as far as your problems are concerned, how are you setting the file associationsd
[07:43] <wjesusaxl> take a look
[07:43] <wjesusaxl> http://www.pastebin.com/260650
[07:44] <billytwowilly> Glin|Jol, Both right click, open with, save settings and in kcontrol
[07:45] <Glin|Jol> hrmm mine is set to kaffeine by default
[07:45] <Glin|Jol> and you do have kaffeine installed correct?
[07:46] <wjesusaxl> what coul be the problem?
[07:46] <billytwowilly> yes.
[07:46] <billytwowilly> It's strange. Because it set to kaffeine to open file for a bit but kdeinit said it couldn't run kaffeine.
[07:46] <billytwowilly> Now it has miraculously decided to go with totem as the movie player of choice..
[07:48] <wjesusaxl> where can I get the KDE package?
[07:48] <billytwowilly> now it's stuck on totem... and adding kaffeine
[07:48] <billytwowilly> wjesusaxl, apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[07:48] <billytwowilly> That will set you up nicely.
[07:49] <Glin|Jol> what happens when you remove totem
[07:49] <wjesusaxl> there are so many unmet dependencies
[07:49] <billytwowilly> I'm trying that now.
[07:50] <billytwowilly> I removed totem and added kaffeine and now there are no setting for x-msvideo and avi
[07:50] <wjesusaxl> it shows that to this computer... I tried before on another computer by installing kde-core
[07:50] <wjesusaxl> and it worked
[07:50] <wjesusaxl> but none of them are working right now
[07:50] <billytwowilly> wjesusaxl, You don't have your /etc/apt/sources.list file setup properly, almost gaurenteed.
[07:51] <wjesusaxl> http://www.pastebin.com/260650
[07:51] <wjesusaxl> check it out yourself
[07:51] <wjesusaxl> I think it's ok
[07:51] <billytwowilly> no it's not.
[07:51] <billytwowilly> It's wrong.
[07:52] <wjesusaxl> is it?
[07:52] <wjesusaxl> damn
[07:52] <billytwowilly> go read the wiki on how to set it up so that you have hoary sources and you have universe and metaverse (might be multiverse)
[07:52] <Glin|Jol> its multiverse
[07:52] <wjesusaxl> it's multiverse
[07:52] <billytwowilly> the kdde in warty is horribly broken.
[07:53] <billytwowilly> I'll give you a quick starter hint though;) wherever it says warty in there it should say hoary and you have the universe repository commented out.
[07:54] <billytwowilly> hmm.
[07:54] <billytwowilly> maybe that last deb on the end is ok. Can you have main, universe multiverse on the same source?
[07:55] <roey> hi
[07:55] <billytwowilly> anyway, you need to comment out the first entry at the very least I think.
[07:56] <roey> what's kubuntu's default root password
[07:56] <roey> I try the instructions at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/root
[07:56] <billytwowilly> there is no root password.
[07:57] <roey> but there apparently is a password set.
[07:57] <billytwowilly> try your user password maybe?
[07:57] <roey> tried that, didn't work.
[07:58] <buga> roey: where do you want to use that password?
[07:58] <roey> for root.
[07:58] <billytwowilly> does sudo work?
[07:58] <roey> *no*
[07:58] <roey> it asks for root password.
[07:58] <billytwowilly> hmm.
[07:58] <billytwowilly> no idea then, sorry.
[07:58] <wjesusaxl> I'll edit my sources.list
[07:58] <roey> ok, thanks anyway.
[08:00] <roey> also, I have this setup:
[08:00] <roey> it's so fucking weird, why did ubuntu do this:
[08:00] <wjesusaxl> thanks
[08:00] <roey> md1 : active raid1 dm-3[1]  dm-2[0]
[08:00] <roey>       39061952 blocks [2/2]  [UU]
[08:00] <roey> md0 : active raid1 dm-1[1]  dm-0[0]
[08:00] <roey>       96256 blocks [2/2]  [UU]
[08:00] <roey> yet md2 is:
[08:00] <roey> md2 : active raid1 sda6[0]  sdb6[1]
[08:00] <roey>       33447232 blocks [2/2]  [UU]
[08:00] <roey> ?!?!?!?
[08:07] <NamShub> hello
[08:07] <JasperM> hi ;)
[08:09] <NamShub> Im about to install kubuntu on my machine but before I go I just wanted to make sure... is it 100% compatible with debian (unstable) repositories?
[08:10] <jfields> hey.... does kubuntu have built in (right after install) support of viewing quicktime and realmedia, etc.... on the net from say places like apple.com/trailers
[08:10] <JasperM> jfields : no...see ubuntu wiki on restricted formats
[08:10] <jfields> why??? mepis does
[08:11] <JasperM> jfields : I beleive it has something to do with laws in the US....just browse the net for w32codecs and kaffeine will play quicktime and realmedia
[08:12] <jfields> one more thing i want to ask..... when i install can i set up a user/password system like everyother distro... so that when i type in su.... it prompts for password
[08:12] <JasperM> jfields : mepis has w32codecs installed by default and kubuntu hasn
[08:13] <jfields> and the mplayer-mozilla plugin...
[08:13] <NamShub> JasperM: that was half my question. It is possible to simply add a (standard debian) rep. to the sources.list and then apt-get it? Is ubuntu stable/testing/unstable/mix of them?
[08:13] <jfields> will kaffeine work seemlessly?
[08:13] <psoulocybe_> go to www.ubuntuguide.org
[08:13] <psoulocybe_> that tells you how to get most plugins
[08:13] <psoulocybe> most things that worked for warty, work for hoary
[08:14] <JasperM> NamShub : ubuntu is a snapshot of debian unstable, most of the debian unstable repositories work (line merrilat)
[08:14] <jfields> well ok... that's not too much trouble.... i just wanna know if when i "su" to do something it will ask for the root password instead of just letting anyone get on and use kynaptic/synaptic and fook things up
[08:15] <NamShub> JasperM: ok thanks.
[08:15] <NamShub> Gonna reboot and install now :)
[08:15] <encKe`> git r done
[08:16] <b-_-d> where do i post bux fixes
[08:16] <b-_-d> where do i post bug* fixes
[08:16] <jfields> welll whatever....
[08:17] <jfields> some support you guys have
[08:18] <b-_-d> o well
[08:18] <b-_-d> the live cd has many issues with its start scripts
[08:19] <b-_-d> never turn glx on if you do not have the nvidia driver
[08:19] <b-_-d> i will crash the system
[08:19] <b-_-d> it* will crash the system
[08:19] <b-_-d> dri is not a smart option
[08:20] <b-_-d> the boot controll is broken
[08:20] <b-_-d> live-extert acpi-off will not work
[08:21] <b-_-d> cd will load drivers for hardware not found
[08:22] <b-_-d> cpu scaling is not smart
[08:22] <JasperM> another bug : kUser only works from the command line (sudo kuser) and not from the menu
[08:23] <b-_-d> locked three of eight test boxes
[08:23] <b-_-d> i can fix the xorg bugs
[08:23] <b-_-d> but i need a place to send my patch
[08:25] <thoreauputic> b-_-d: umm - http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[08:25] <b-_-d> do not use a mem= line on any nvidia card in xorg.conf
[08:25] <b-_-d> will do :)
[08:26] <b-_-d> JasperM is that all you found?
[08:26] <buga> b-_-d: send patches to bugzilla ( https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ )
[08:27] <b-_-d> also chmod o+rw /dev/dsp
[08:27] <buga> b-_-d: why?
[08:28] <buga> audio group membership is enough
[08:28] <b-_-d> if you add a user the user in not auto added the the grupe audio in /etc/grupe
[08:28] <b-_-d> a bad fix i know
[08:28] <b-_-d> but it works for now
[08:28] <JasperM> b-_-d : I run Kunbuntu from harddisk (installed Ubuntu long ago and upgraded to Kubuntu)...less buggy
[08:29] <b-_-d> that is not a good fix
[08:29] <b-_-d> we need to fix Kunbuntu
[08:31] <b-_-d> can i get a .config for the kernel
[08:32] <buga> b-_-d: ls /boot/config*
[08:32] <b-_-d> ok
[08:33] <b-_-d> kernel-2.6.10-1.770_FC3 is a very stable kernel it powers my gentoo boxes
[08:33] <b-_-d> gentoo kernel is not very good at all
[08:35] <b-_-d> can i some how copy the system off a livecd and chroot to work on it?
[08:36] <b-_-d> i want to test in real hardware not vmware
[08:43] <buga> b-_-d: I don't know a good way, but fdisk->mkfs->copy-with-tar->vi fstab->grub-install may work. you said that you are using gentoo, so this should not be a problem for you :))
[08:45] <tackat> KDE 3.4 rocks :)
[08:46] <|QuaD-> b-_-d: what is wrong with the regular install of kubuntu?
[08:47] <b-_-d> |QuaD have not tried yet working with live cd image
[08:47] <sn0wman> if i install kubuntu-desktop, will kdm replace gdm?
[08:48] <b-_-d> sn0wman just edit /etc/rc.d
[08:51] <buga> sn0wman: /etc/X11/default-display-manager contains the actually used display manager
[08:53] <buga> sn0wman: according to http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/documentation.php#d0e123 apt-get install kubuntu-desktop will display a debconf window, where you can choose
[08:53] <sn0wman> oh, ok
[08:53] <sn0wman> cool
[08:55] <apokryphos> b-_-d: that doesn't seem to exist for me, here.
[08:55] <b-_-d> ok cd /
[08:56] <b-_-d> tar -cvjf etc.tar.bz2 etc/
[08:56] <b-_-d> that will make a small fike called etc.tar.bz2 in /
[08:57] <b-_-d> mail it to me
[08:57] <b-_-d><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:57] <apokryphos> b-_-d: it's alright... don't really have the problem; just out of interest there.
[08:58] <b-_-d> it would also give me a better idea of how Kubuntu works
[08:58] <b-_-d> i am only testing the live cd
[09:00] <b-_-d> will the real install ask whre to put stuff
[09:00] <b-_-d> or do i need to tar /
[09:01] <apokryphos> b-_-d: it won't ask; you don't select packages, neither.
[09:01] <apokryphos> you can specify which partition is / though, of course.
[09:02] <b-_-d> you don't select packages?
[09:02] <b-_-d> man
[09:02] <apokryphos> b-_-d: to install; nope. You can always just install/delete anything after.
[09:02] <apokryphos> it takes a matter of minutes
[09:03] <LeeJunFan> I think I have found liberation from Mandrake :)
[09:03] <apokryphos> b-_-d: how are you finding the liveCD there?
[09:03] <apokryphos> LeeJunFan: cool :)
[09:03] <b-_-d> do i do not get the select what is used swap /boot /usr /home etc. etc...
[09:03] <LeeJunFan> apokryphos: yepper, just have to learn apt now.
[09:04] <apokryphos> b-_-d: you sure can
[09:04] <apokryphos> LeeJunFan: it's trivial to learn, and I find it superior to Mdk's urpmi, easily.
[09:04] <LeeJunFan> learn better that is.
[09:04] <b-_-d> apokryphos downdoaled it so i could give kubuntu a try but found many bugs
[09:04] <LeeJunFan> apokryphos: so far I'm really impressed - especially by apt's speed compared to rpms'.
[09:05] <apokryphos> b-_-d: might be worth compiling a bug-report. What type of bugs? Critical?
[09:06] <b-_-d> apokryphos if the live cd is short lived no need
[09:06] <apokryphos> Yeah, but it would help them improve it. ;)
[09:07] <b-_-d> i am ging to tar sda to sdb then unplug sdb so it can not be accessed than install to disk
[09:07] <b-_-d> going* to
[09:07] <Glin|Jol> how would i go about making gtk less ugly heh
[09:08] <apokryphos> Glin|Jol: you can "force apply" your kde style onto your gtk stuff
[09:08] <Glin|Jol> apokryphos: how would i go about doing that?
[09:08] <apokryphos> Glin|Jol: you can also specify the fonts you want to use in it from kcontrol
[09:08] <AMIGrAve> since my last update I can't add Applications for file types handling. The action is simply ignored and I get this error output when starting the filemanager in a console :   ASSERT: "m_pService" in /build/buildd/kdelibs-3.4.0/kio/kfile/kopenwith.cpp (802)    and also this line :   ASSERT: "service" in /build/buildd/kdebase-3.4.0/kcontrol/filetypes/kservicelistwidget.cpp (247)
[09:08] <Glin|Jol> apokryphos: the fonts are fine
[09:08] <b-_-d> Glin|Jol  most apps can be build with out gtk support
[09:08] <Glin|Jol> its more like xchat, firefox etc
[09:08] <Glin|Jol> the scroll bars look horrible, as do the buttons
[09:09] <b-_-d> rebuild the app and run from $HOME
[09:09] <Glin|Jol> b-_-d: you mean configure from source?
[09:09] <b-_-d> ya
[09:09] <Glin|Jol> hrmm
[09:09] <b-_-d> xchat is a small build
[09:09] <Glin|Jol> dunno if i want to go through all that trouble heh
[09:09] <Glin|Jol> yeah i know
[09:09] <b-_-d> firefox is in the middle
[09:10] <Glin|Jol> i just try to not compile since then i wont be able to update via apt-get update etc.
[09:10] <apokryphos> Glin|Jol: gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[09:10] <apokryphos> Glin|Jol: that's the package you want
[09:10] <b-_-d> when a ran debian i build xfree and mp3 encoders by hand
[09:11] <Imrahil> I have a question regarding kubuntu networking. All of the ubuntu docs refer to using gnome network settings to configure networking. I am not familiar with how debian networking scripts work, can anyone give me a pointer?
[09:11] <Glin|Jol> apokryphos: thanks a lot, that was exactly what i was looking for
[09:11] <b-_-d> for the rest of the sysrtem there is no real point
[09:11] <Glin|Jol> anyways brb
[09:12] <apokryphos> Imrahil: there is knetworkconf
[09:13] <Glin|Jol> apokryphos: after i downloaded and installed that package, is there anything else i need to take care of?
[09:13] <b-_-d> Glin|Jol did the install get your host and domain name correct?
[09:13] <Glin|Jol> b-_-d: yeah
[09:14] <apokryphos> Glin|Jol: kcontrol > Appearance & Themes > GTK Styles and Fonts
[09:14] <b-_-d> omost of the crap most be live cd issues only
[09:14] <b-_-d> o most of the crap most be live cd issues only
[09:14] <Glin|Jol> apokryphos: woo you are a lifesaver
[09:15] <apokryphos> b-_-d: I had issues with the liveCD that I never had on the real thing
[09:15] <apokryphos> Monitor detection/x setup & Network configuration, specifically.
[09:16] <b-_-d> ya
[09:17] <b-_-d> and auto turning all hardware on in a high end box is not smart
[09:17] <b-_-d> you will sometimes run out of IRQs
[09:18] <Glin|Jol> i had that problem with mandrake
[09:18] <Glin|Jol> thats why i made the switch to kumbutnu
[09:18] <Glin|Jol> err
[09:18] <Glin|Jol> kubuntu
[09:19] <b-_-d> i have more stuff than IRQs but i just turn stuff i do not use off
[09:21] <NamShub> Hello :)
[09:21] <b-_-d> com1 com2 printer port 1394 sencers ide1 acpi floppy all off here
[09:21] <NamShub> almost flawless install :)
[09:21] <b-_-d> hello NamShub
[09:21] <b-_-d> lspci ?
[09:21] <b-_-d> pls
[09:21] <b-_-d> almost?
[09:22] <b-_-d> what happen?
[09:22] <b-_-d> small issue or ooooooooo noooooooo
[09:22] <NamShub> small issues
[09:22] <NamShub> didnt add existing gentoo to grub, lost network on first boot
[09:23] <NamShub> thats it :)
[09:25] <geneo93> i need some help with latest updates for hoary
[09:30] <Beuno> hey, I just installed kubuntu over ubuntu, and now Im stuck on 640x480, any ideas?
[09:30] <|QuaD-> Beuno: did you look at the x.org logs?
[09:30] <Beuno> no, where are they?
[09:31] <|QuaD-> in /var/logs
[09:31] <apokryphos> Beuno: if resize and rotate kde program doesn't allow you to, you have to edit your xorg.conf
[09:32] <Beuno> ok, Im looking at the log
[09:32] <Beuno> where the xorg.conf file?
[09:32] <apokryphos>  /etc/X11
[09:32] <|QuaD-> Beuno: /etc/X11
[09:32] <Beuno> :D
[09:32] <Beuno> thanks
[09:34] <Beuno> ok, changed some stuff
[09:34] <Beuno> I just log out and log back in?
[09:34] <|QuaD-> ctrl shift backspace restarts it
[09:35] <Beuno> hmmmm
[09:35] <Beuno> anywhere?
[09:35] <Beuno> doesnt seem to do anything
[09:35] <|QuaD-> in X
[09:41] <NamShub> :S
[09:41] <NamShub> seems I lose my net connection after a few minutes
[09:41] <NamShub> I dont even know how to bring it back
[09:42] <NamShub> any clues?
[09:43] <NamShub> (please help me before I lose it again, heh)
[09:43] <roey> hi
[09:44] <roey> I've sort of gotten around the issue of kubuntu having an unknown root pw  by booting off the livecd, chrooting, and running passwd roo.
[09:44] <roey> *root
[09:45] <roey> thanks to anyone who helped earlier
[09:45] <roey> Now...
[09:45] <apokryphos> NamShub: it's worth asking in #ubuntu. Probably some ifup/ifdown eth0 stuff...
[09:46] <roey> why can't I use hdparm to turn on DMA on my SATA drives???
[09:46] <NamShub> apokryphos: ok thanks
[09:47] <Beuno> hey, just wanted to let you know I got it to work
[09:48] <Beuno> just ran dpgk-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[09:48] <Beuno> :D
[09:48] <apokryphos> cool :)
[09:48] <Beuno> tnx for the help!
[09:50] <b-_-d> hdparm support for SATA and SCSI sucks
[09:50] <roey> b-_-d: er
[09:50] <roey> b-_-d: in that.. it doesn't exist?
[09:50] <b-_-d> ?
[09:50] <b-_-d> ya
[09:51] <b-_-d> roey well that is not fully true
[09:51] <b-_-d> hdparm -t and hdparm -T work
[09:52] <b-_-d> but they are poor benchmarks anyway
[09:53] <roey> SadEagle: b-_-d:  what the hell is up with jeff garzick, eh?
[09:53] <b-_-d> no idea
[09:53] <roey> he maintains it.
[09:53] <b-_-d> NamShub what hardware
[09:54] <b-_-d> you using?
[09:55] <b-_-d> i just want a cool debian like system where the apps are not older than i am
[09:55] <Glin|Jol> haha
[09:56] <encKe`> does Ubuntu support a pretty good range of pci wireless cards?
[09:56] <encKe`> like Motorola?
[09:56] <apokryphos> b-_-d: app support is really very good. You can check out what's in.. archive.ubuntu.com.
[09:56] <apokryphos> *good/speedy
[09:56] <buga> argh, a friend of mine says the konqi-based graphic on http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/konqi.png is like a benzene ring.  yes, she is a chemist. :)
[09:58] <b-_-d> where is the package list? i need bogofilter spam filter
[09:58] <apokryphos> buga: I don't see how :P. Beneze ring: http://www.bartleby.com/61/imagepages/A4benzen.html
[09:59] <apokryphos> b-_-d: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/
[09:59] <Blissex> b-_-d: you should be using 'aptitude' or 'synaptic' that managed the package lists for you.
[10:00] <apokryphos> Blissex: he's not using kubuntu
[10:00] <apokryphos> not sure if you can view them on the liveCD though
[10:00] <b-_-d> just did a backup
[10:00] <NamShub> :(
[10:01] <b-_-d> downloading install iso now
[10:01] <b-_-d> i can not post the amd64 live cd it has too many bugs
[10:01] <apokryphos> b-_-d: Quote mdz: the torrent I hope ;-)
[10:02] <Blissex> b-_-d: however, Debian has 'bogofilter' (I use that) so you can be fairly confident of having it in some form under KUbuntu
[10:02] <Blissex> b-_-d: if you want an'amd64' LiveCD, consider also a ''cousin'' of Ubuntu called Kanotix.
[10:02] <buga> apokryphos: I also don't see, but I can't convince her
[10:03] <b-_-d> Blissex ok cool i get 500+ emails each day so that is a big deal to me
[10:03] <apokryphos> buga: those chemists; typical. ;)
[10:03] <apokryphos> b-_-d: youch
[10:04] <b-_-d> ok looking
[10:04] <Blissex> b-_-d: I get almost no SPAM now, after switching my email address scheme to a particularly geeky one.
[10:04] <buga> Blissex: ubuntu also has bogofilter in the universe repository
[10:04] <Blissex> buga: not surprising...
[10:04] <apokryphos> gmail spam system works pretty great, which is a big plus.
[10:05] <Blissex> buga: I tend to use mixed Debian/[K] Ubuntu source lists, if one knows what they are doing it works well...
[10:06] <buga> b-_-d: http://higgs.djpig.de/ubuntu/www/ - this is like http://packages.debian.org/
[10:06] <apokryphos> Blissex: are you using kubuntu kde on another distro? A friend of mine has Mepis; contemplating whether should suggest that he use ubu repos to give it a go.
[10:07] <apokryphos> b-_-d: Ahh, wasn't aware there was a searchable part for it. Cool.
[10:07] <apokryphos> Beineri: the link is above, if you haven't come across it yet. :)
[10:07] <Blissex> apokryphos: not yet, because so far Debian's KDE packages have been mostly OK. Not quite fully switched to KUbuntu :-)
[10:08] <Beineri> apokryphos: package browser? have it bookmarked yesterday :-)
[10:08] <LeeJunFan> what's the general replacement for gkrellm these days?
[10:08] <apokryphos> cool; news to me.
[10:09] <b-_-d> anyone have a working amd64 install
[10:09] <LeeJunFan> b-_-d: mine's working.
[10:09] <pepsi> t
[10:09] <b-_-d> i want to know befor i try amd64 + scsi
[10:09] <apokryphos> b-_-d: I believe amu -- one of the devs -- has an amd64
[10:09] <LeeJunFan> b-_-d: don't have scsi though.
[10:10] <b-_-d> ya all scsi here
[10:10] <b-_-d> well ide cdroms
[10:11] <LeeJunFan> b-_-d: laptop here.
[10:11] <b-_-d> ok
[10:12] <b-_-d> i hate downloading
[10:12] <pepsi> i hate you downloading to
[10:13] <b-_-d> i only get no more than 30k from the Kubuntu site
[10:13] <apokryphos> Torrent is better
[10:13] <Riddell> b-_-d: use a mirror or bittorrent
[10:13] <b-_-d> others i can get 200k and 300k
[10:14] <b-_-d> where is the mirror list
[10:14] <b-_-d> and how do i get on the mirror list
[10:14] <LeeJunFan> anyone know why right clicking kmenu and trying to open menu editor doesn't work but running kmenuedit works ok?
[10:14] <b-_-d> i can serve images
[10:14] <NamShubWin> hi again
[10:14] <b-_-d> wb NamShubWin
[10:17] <b-_-d> bittorrent 0.0kb :)
[10:18] <apokryphos> might take some time to warm up ;)
[10:18] <b-_-d> ok i will check it's spark plugs
[10:19] <|QuaD-> b-_-d: i get 10 mbit when dling from torrent, like 2 mbit when downloading from mirrors
[10:20] <b-_-d> 10 mbit man
[10:20] <apokryphos> depending on your torrent program and/or router/modem setup, you might need to have port forwarding sorted.
[10:20] <b-_-d> that is bad
[10:20] <|QuaD-> 10 mbit is bad?
[10:20] <apokryphos> (as in good :P)
[10:20] <|QuaD-> yeah, i am sad that in 2 months i lose it
[10:20] <b-_-d> o 10 mbit not to k
[10:21] <|QuaD-> i actually have 2 10mbit lines, so 20 mbit total :) but i lose it in may
[10:21] <b-_-d> 0.0k here
[10:21] <apokryphos> nice; why losing it?
[10:21] <|QuaD-> graduating
[10:21] <apokryphos> ah
[10:21] <b-_-d> killing torrent
[10:22] <b-_-d> ya i am on a school line also
[10:22] <apokryphos> if you have a router, you're likely not listening to the torrent port
[10:22] <|QuaD-> b-_-d: i2?
[10:22] <b-_-d> ya
[10:22] <apokryphos> our school has a nice 10mbit, but reasonably useless, as it's at school.
[10:23] <b-_-d> i get ablout 4000k
[10:23] <|QuaD-> ahh, i am at uni
[10:23] <|QuaD-> b-_-d: what schooL?
[10:23] <b-_-d> apsu
[10:23] <|QuaD-> apsu? as in penn state?
[10:23] <b-_-d> no
[10:23] <apokryphos> I get about 496k (exactly) :P
[10:24] <b-_-d> http://www.apsu.edu/
[10:24] <|QuaD-> never heard of it
[10:24] <b-_-d> small
[10:25] <|QuaD-> interesting
[10:26] <b-_-d> what port is torrent using?
[10:26] <b-_-d> the IT students here are evil
[10:26] <b-_-d> i have my firewalls locked down
[10:26] <NamShubWin> this is disappointing :(
[10:27] <apokryphos> b-_-d: I think it depends on what prog you're using (it might not). On Azureus it's 6881
[10:27] <|QuaD-> apokryphos: thats standard
[10:27] <apokryphos> cool; it is alterable, of course, from most programs I'd imagine.
[10:27] <b-_-d> NamShubWin what is disappointing?
[10:28] <|QuaD-> apokryphos: have you tried bittornado? i find it much better then azeurus, no bloat
[10:28] <NamShubWin> that networking mess
[10:28] <NamShubWin> everything in the install went smooth
[10:28] <NamShubWin> this is the first distro that get my wireless card automatically, etc...
[10:28] <apokryphos> |QuaD-: heard about it, never tried. Hmm, in the repos; downloading.
[10:29] <NamShubWin> but losing the network after ~5 minutes and no way (no clue) to get it back, is disappointing
[10:29] <apokryphos> qtorrent is nice, but a little too simple.
[10:29] <b-_-d> i can not find a mirror list
[10:29] <b-_-d> and the grammer on the site is a mess
[10:30] <b-_-d> is the webmaster non us?
[10:30] <apokryphos> |QuaD-: is the executable named something different?
[10:30] <b-_-d> ya it is
[10:31] <b-_-d> btcompletedirgui.py
[10:31] <apokryphos> unknown host btcomple...
[10:32] <b-_-d> or btdownloadheadless.py
[10:32] <apokryphos> denied again
[10:33] <|QuaD-> apokryphos: there are a few executables, i mainly use btlaunchmanycurses
[10:34] <b-_-d> |QuaD- that torrent command did yiu use?
[10:34] <b-_-d> you* use
[10:34] <|QuaD-> b-_-d: why is kubuntu.org.uk bad grammer, seems fine to me... your grammer seems worse
[10:34] <b-_-d> wb P229
[10:35] <P229> I like kubuntu's rendition of ubuntu's threesome, heh
[10:35] <b-_-d> |QuaD- i just suck at typing my papers are fine
[10:35] <|QuaD-> but where is the bad grammer on kubuntu's site?
[10:35] <apokryphos> |QuaD-: who said that?
[10:36] <|QuaD-> 16:29 < b-_-d> and the grammer on the site is a mess
[10:36] <apokryphos> oh
[10:36] <P229> |QuaD-: I didn't see any grammer on the site
[10:37] <P229> :-D
[10:37] <|QuaD-> P229: the writing seemed fine for me too, but i want to know where b-_-d found mistakes
[10:37] <|QuaD-> if he is so critical
[10:37] <b-_-d> brb reading
[10:37] <apokryphos> I'm sure I could find something :D
[10:37] <|QuaD-> apokryphos: haha, yeah, just like on every site out there
[10:37] <Roey> hi
[10:37] <Roey> um
[10:37] <Roey> is konq-plugins  3.4  in hoary?
[10:37] <apokryphos> |QuaD-: I am a bit of a pedant/stickler.
[10:38] <P229> |QuaD-, yeah, unless it's *really* bad, it's probably nothing to get hung up over
[10:38] <Roey> |QuaD-:  hey, whassup (engineer here too)
[10:38] <apokryphos> Roey: nope
[10:39] <Roey> apokryphos:  ok, that explains why it says that it's for 3.3.2 only.
[10:39] <Roey> s/it/dpkg
[10:39] <Roey> apokryphos:  will it be made?
[10:39] <Roey> apokryphos:  make'd for hoary, doyou nkow?
[10:39] <apokryphos> Roey: you could suggest it on the wiki and/or mailing list.
[10:39] <Roey> it's...er... part of kde
[10:39] <apokryphos> yes...
[10:39] <Roey> being able to archive web pages or change html settings quickly...
[10:40] <Roey> basically everything under the Tools/ menu
[10:40] <apokryphos> Erm, no. Konq-plugins is an extra package -- extra plugins.
[10:41] <apokryphos> see help:/konq-plugins in konqueror
[10:41] <Roey> kde-extras is installed yet I don't see anything under Tools
[10:41] <Roey> one sec I willc ehck this
[10:42] <Roey> "The requested help file could not be found. Check that you have installed the documentation."
[10:43] <apokryphos> Yeah.. you'd have to install it. It is a kde package, but it's not core kde or even main kde -- it's part of kdeaddons
[10:43] <apokryphos> ok, kdeaddons might actually be main kde stuff... :)
[10:43] <apokryphos> anyhow, if it's good -- suggest it; sounds like a good idea.
[10:45] <lookorez> is there a repository that has rubygems in it?
[10:48] <apokryphos> none of mine do
[10:52] <buga> lookorez: you can download sources from http://people.debian.org/~akira/rubygems/ and rebuild it on ubuntu
[10:53] <lookorez> i rebuilt it but it doesnt seem to work right
[10:53] <lookorez> kubuntu:~$ gem install rails
[10:53] <lookorez> /usr/local/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/rubygems/custom_require.rb:18:in `require__': No such file to load -- zlib (LoadError)
[10:54] <buga> do you have libzlib-ruby installed?
[10:54] <lookorez> according to synaptic I do
[10:54] <lookorez> I even reinstalled it and installed anythin that looked like libzlib
[10:56] <buga> hmm, but why is it in /usr/local/lib?
[10:56] <lookorez> im not sure
[10:56] <Roey> apokryphos:  The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:56] <Roey>   kdeaddons: Depends: konq-plugins (>= 4:3.3.2-1ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[10:56] <Roey> E: Broken packages
[10:56] <apokryphos> Roey: yup, noticed.
[10:56] <Roey> apokryphos:  doesn't look like kdeaddons is even built
[10:56] <Roey> yeah :(
[10:56] <Roey> apokryphos:  same thing with kde-devel
[10:56] <Roey> apokryphos:  and pykde
[10:57] <Roey> apokryphos:  (and my apps are in pykde, which is why I need it)
[10:57] <apokryphos> Roey: the dev team is very much alive and still active. :) Mailing list/wiki is open for suggestions.
[10:57] <Roey> where can I suggest this on the wiki
[10:57] <Roey> ?
[10:57] <buga> lookorez: i've just downloaded the binary package, ran a dpkg -c ..., it should be located in /usr/lib/ruby/...
[10:57] <lookorez> which binary package
[10:57] <buga> lookorez: http://people.debian.org/~akira/rubygems/rubygems_0.8.4-0.1_all.deb
[10:58] <lookorez> I download that?
[10:58] <buga> how did you installed the rubygems package?
[10:59] <lookorez> I think I downloaded rubygems from source
[10:59] <lookorez> what do I do with that .deb file?
[11:00] <buga> I see. I meaned source as "source debian package", when I said you can download sources from http://people.debian.org/~akira/rubygems/ and rebuild it on ubuntu"
[11:00] <lookorez> oh i meant i meant the source code
[11:01] <apokryphos> Roey: sorry, you could add it on the second link in /topic
[11:01] <buga> you can install it using "dpkg -i rubygems_0.8.4-0.1_all.deb"
[11:01] <apokryphos> Roey: though there is another page, too, which I'll dig up
[11:01] <lookorez> ok i'll try that
[11:01] <Roey> ok
[11:01] <Roey> apokryphos:  thank you very much, btw.
[11:01] <Roey> anyone here running NVidia cards?
[11:02] <Roey> "
[11:02] <Roey> sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx"
[11:02] <Roey> which version of the nvidia commercial drivers does thsi install?
[11:02] <lookorez> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of rubygems:
[11:02] <lookorez> should I just get all those via synaptic?
[11:03] <buga> dpkg -I ...deb shows dependencies
[11:03] <apokryphos> Roey: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuSuggestedPackages
[11:04] <buga> just "apt-get install ruby1.8 libtest-unit-ruby1.8 libyaml-ruby1.8 rdoc1.8 libzlib-ruby1.8" before dpkg -i
[11:06] <Roey> apokryphos:  I don't see where I can edit it :(
[11:06] <apokryphos> Roey: you'll have to first login
[11:06] <Roey> I see.
[11:06] <Roey> apokryphos:  can you do it for me? I have a bunch of things to get right with this system first
[11:06] <Roey> (grub doesn't understand that / is raid1'd, for example)
[11:07] <Roey> (asks me for the root password for maintenance every tiem I boot up)
[11:07] <lookorez> I still get the ZLIB error :(
[11:07] <Roey> computers suck.
[11:07] <lookorez> weirdly windows setup of rubyonrails is simple as pie
[11:08] <apokryphos> Roey: you do badly in presupposing (if you do) that I'm not doing anything :P. But no worry, sure, I'll add it later.
[11:08] <Roey> thank you :) : ):) :)
[11:08] <Roey> (kdeaddons, kde-devel and kde-bindings, including python-kde3)
[11:09] <apokryphos> the first is a package to add...
[11:09] <apokryphos> kde-devel doesn't work because of dependency issues
[11:09] <apokryphos> same with PyKDE, which amu said he'll sort
[11:10] <Roey> hm
[11:10] <Roey> ok
[11:10] <lookorez> buga: why do you think gems can't find zlib even though I installed it?
[11:11] <Roey> heh, kaffeine doesn't work either (can't load a certain kpart;  I suspect it has somethng to do with the BC inconsistency introduced last month into CVS0
[11:11] <apokryphos> Works fine here
[11:12] <Roey> .desktop not found in search path.
[11:12] <Roey> interesting how errors seem to follow me around through different OS installs
[11:12] <buga> lookorez: it's working here
[11:12] <lookorez> buga:  how do I like debug it
[11:12] <Roey> they may or may not be problems with my ~
[11:12] <buga> lookorez: what's the *exact* error message?
[11:12] <Roey> not sure.
[11:13] <lookorez> kubuntu:~/Desktop$ sudo gem install rails
[11:13] <lookorez> /usr/local/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/rubygems/custom_require.rb:18:in `require__': No such file to load -- zlib (LoadError)
[11:13] <buga> lookorez: it tries to use the version you installed before (not the one from the debian package)
[11:14] <lookorez> so I should uninstall the previous one?
[11:14] <buga> lookorez: sudo rm -r /usr/local/lib/ruby
[11:15] <lookorez> kubuntu:~/Desktop$ sudo gem install rails
[11:15] <lookorez> /usr/local/bin/gem:3:in `require': No such file to load -- rubygems (LoadError)
[11:15] <lookorez>         from /usr/local/bin/gem:3
[11:15] <lookorez> should I reinstall gems now?
[11:15] <buga> rm /usr/local/bin/gem
[11:15] <lookorez> ok
[11:16] <lookorez> Could not find RubyGem sources (> 0.0.0)
[11:16] <lookorez>         from /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/rubygems.rb:34:in `require_gem'
[11:17] <buga> hoary?
[11:17] <lookorez> ?
[11:18] <lookorez> i use kbutuntu
[11:18] <buga> it's ok
[11:18] <buga> me too
[11:20] <timlinux1> has anyone build kdevelop 3.2 against kubuntu installation yet?
[11:20] <lookorez> buga: what do I do now?
[11:21] <buga> lookorez: i'm trying to figure out, what is different on your installation...
[11:23] <lookorez> well what does the error msg mean
[11:24] <lookorez> it means that it can't find gem installed or something?
[11:25] <lookorez> i looked at the code but I don' really know what it means
[11:26] <buga> did you run dpkg -i after the apt-get command again?
[11:27] <lookorez> oh nope
[11:27] <lookorez> i will try this
[11:27] <buga> do it
[11:28] <lookorez> ok i got a different result
[11:28] <buga> it runs "gem install /usr/share/rubygems/1.8/gems/sources-0.0.1.gem" from postinst script (this is called after a successful debian package installation)
[11:28] <lookorez> it installed a whole bunch of stuff from rubyforge
[11:28] <lookorez> but it gives an error after stuff is installed:
[11:29] <lookorez> : /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/rubygems/custom_require.rb:26:in `require': No such file to load -- action_controller (LoadError)
[11:31] <maxchee> does anyone here know how to uninstall ubuntu and associated packages?
[11:31] <maxchee> and keep kubuntu
[11:32] <Beineri> maxchee: debfoster ubuntu-base kubuntu-desktop
[11:32] <Beineri> you may want to keep grub, a kernel and synaptic too ;-)
[11:32] <buga> lookorez: Updating Gem source index for: http://gems.rubyforge.org
[11:33] <buga> lookorez: Install required dependency rake? [Yn]
[11:33] <buga> did you get this question too?
[11:33] <lookorez> i installed that yeah
[11:33] <lookorez> and a bunch of other stuff, actionrecord etc
[11:34] <lookorez> maybe I don't need actionmailer ?
[11:34] <maxchee> also is there a quick way to minimize all windows?
[11:34] <maxchee> like a show desktop applet
[11:34] <lookorez> press the desktop button?
[11:34] <maxchee> is there one on kubuntu?
[11:34] <apokryphos> Beineri: perhaps this is obvious, but why debfoster kubuntu-desktop?
[11:34] <lookorez> there is on mine in the kde task bar
[11:35] <maxchee> found it
[11:35] <Beineri> apokryphos: because you want to keep "kubuntu"? :-)
[11:36] <apokryphos> Beineri: I might be misunderstanding the usage of debfoster, but won't that weed it out?
[11:36] <Beineri> apokryphos: or maxchee
[11:36] <lookorez> buga:  should I directly download stuff from gems.rubyforge.org ?
[11:36] <Beineri> apokryphos: if I'm not seriously mistaken know you tell what packages to keep :-)
[11:37] <maxchee> I can't find debfoster
[11:37] <apokryphos> maxchee: apt-get install debfoster
[11:38] <Beineri> maxchee: it's in universe
[11:38] <buga> lookorez: it works too but not this is the problem
[11:38] <buga> lookorez: i've suceed to simulate the problem, investigating it
[11:39] <apokryphos> Beineri: not sure if I understand :P. Syntax seems to be "debfoster [options]  [package1..]  [package2..] .." so kubuntu-desktop is package2 in this case, to be weeded out?
[11:40] <Beineri> apokryphos: read man al?
[11:40] <maxchee> is there a why to reinstall the who distro
[11:40] <Beineri> manual   (increasing count of typos is a good signal to go to sleep ;-)
[11:40] <maxchee> through apt-get?
[11:40] <apokryphos> Beineri: yup
[11:41] <maxchee> apokryphhos:
[11:41] <maxchee> apokryphhos: do you know how to reinstall ubuntu?
[11:41] <maxchee> apokryphhos: using apt-get
[11:41] <apokryphos> yes
[11:42] <apokryphos> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-base, should do it.
[11:42] <maxchee> apokryphhos: I mean after you have ubuntu up and running
[11:43] <maxchee> apokryphhos: and wanting to reinstall it
[11:43] <apokryphos> (and ubuntu-desktop)
[11:43] <apokryphos> erm
[11:44] <apokryphos> You could by a couple of commands (would involve removing it and re-installing); but other than that -- nope.
[11:45] <buga> lookorez: sorry, I can't say what is this error message, it's ruby gem specific. I would ask it on a ruby channel
[11:46] <lookorez> ok
[11:52] <maxchee> apokryphos: are you sure it's debfoster?
[11:52] <apokryphos> 100%
[11:53] <apokryphos> maxchee: do you have the Universe repository enabled?
[11:54] <maxchee> apokryphos: yes
[11:54] <maxchee> apokryphos: it says this in the help text
[11:54] <maxchee> apokryphos: Installs package1, deinstalls package2
[11:54] <apokryphos> heh, same here.
[11:55] <apokryphos> but how about the man page?
[11:55] <maxchee> apokryphos:  debfoster maintains a list of installed packages that were explicitly requested rather than installed as a depen
[11:55] <maxchee>      dency.  Arguments are entirely optional, debfoster can be invoked per se after each run of dpkg and/or aptget.
[11:55] <maxchee>      Alternatively you can use debfoster to install and remove packages by specifying the packages on the command line.
[11:55] <maxchee>      Packages suffixed with a  are removed while packages without a suffix are installed.
[11:55] <maxchee>      If a new package is encountered or if debfoster notices that a package that used to be a dependency is now an
[11:55] <maxchee>      orphan, it will ask you what to do with it.  If you decide to keep it, debfoster will just take note and continue.
[11:55] <maxchee>      If you decide that this package is not interesting enough it will be removed as soon as debfoster is done asking
[11:55] <maxchee>      questions.  If your choises cause other packages to become orphaned more questions will ensue.
[11:55] <apokryphos> maxchee: don't flood the channel. :)
[11:55] <maxchee> sorry, it's just part of the man page
[11:56] <apokryphos> under the Synopsis -- does it not imply that the syntax is like what I said above?
[11:58] <maxchee> apokryphs: I think this is what I need: sudo debfoster ubuntu-desktop
[11:58] <apokryphos> hehe, I don't quite know.
[11:58] <apokryphos> (btw, you can use TAB for auto-completion of nicks)
[11:59] <maxchee> thx, apokryphos.
[12:01] <maxchee> apokryphos, does debfoster purge the packages?