[12:05] <BenC> down to 233, better than I thought
[12:05] <AcidPils> grats
[12:05] <BenC> almost 150 bugs
[12:06] <BenC> well, most were already fixed in breezy, a lot of others were fixed simply because we have 2.6.15 (containing patches needed)
[12:06] <BenC> I did fix 30 or so in -8.10 though
[12:09] <AcidPils> i would be happy if could fix this stupid segfault in my own code :(
[12:20] <zul> heylo
[12:20] <zul> mjg59: i dont get a blacklight
[12:28] <dilinger> bah
[12:28] <dilinger> the sunfire i sent davem got banged up pretty good in transit
[12:28] <dilinger> maybe i shouldn't have done UPS ground :/
[12:30] <jbailey> dilinger: Ugh.
[12:39] <mjg59> zul: Ok, cool
[12:39] <mjg59> zul: What BIOS version do you have?
[12:40] <zul> uh...good question im on my laptop right now
[12:48] <mjg59> zul: Heh :) dmidecode might tell you, if you're lucky
[12:49] <zul> A03
[12:59] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[12:59] <mjg59> A02 seems to work, weirdly
[01:02] <zul> bah..
[02:59] <zul> oh hockey game..
[03:17] <infinity> BenC : No kernel yet?
[03:17] <BenC> doing the dpkg-buildpackage now
[03:18] <infinity> See, I completely ignored my alarm clock and slept in, just to give you more time. :)
[03:18] <BenC> thanks, you're so considerate :)
[03:19] <infinity> I expect payment in cows.
[03:19] <BenC> one steer, bull, cow or heffer?
[03:21] <infinity> As long as it's dead and tastes good.
[03:24] <BenC> ah, a managable bug list
[03:24] <BenC> active bugs, 68
[03:26] <infinity> Wow.  Do mine next!
[03:44] <mgalvin> sorry to be annoying, but I am starting to write a review of flight 2, do we have an ETA of some kind? (today || end of the week)?
[03:45] <infinity> "Soon"
[03:48] <mjg59> infinity: So, uh
[03:48] <mjg59> infinity: Is our ltmodem linked on boot like our fglrx and nvidia?
[03:52] <zul> fabio does dallas? ewww..
[03:53] <BenC> go rent the full length video and enjoy!
[03:56] <infinity> mjg59 : Yes.
[03:56] <mjg59> infinity: That's a relief
[03:56] <infinity> BenC : -server-bigiron?
[03:56] <mjg59> Obvious GPL violation otherwise
[03:56] <mjg59> (They include Linux serial code)
[03:56] <BenC> infinity: -server and -server-bigiron
[03:57] <infinity> yes.  Bug.  -bigiron? :)
[03:57] <infinity> mjg59 : Yeah, they have it in a seperate object, and we link them on boot.
[03:57] <zul> BenC: i laid the groundwork for dbg in my development tree
[03:58] <BenC> cool
[03:58] <zul> just have to figure out the post-install crap
[03:58] <infinity> s/Bug/But/
[03:58] <BenC> infinity: bug?
[03:58] <BenC> oh, heh
[03:59] <BenC> was agreed upon by several in #ubuntu-devel
[03:59] <BenC> elmo, Kamion, and a few others
[03:59] <BenC> bigiron being a word that only people who actually know what it is would consider installing the kernel
[03:59] <infinity> Oh, sure, I don't get credit for the vga16fb change. :)
[03:59] <BenC> shit, I meant to change that before finalizing
[04:00] <BenC> sorry
[04:00] <infinity> (Like I care)
[04:00] <mjg59> I did an identical change
[04:00] <mjg59> I claim copyright
[04:00] <BenC> well, if it's broken, I can't put blame on you now :)
[04:00] <BenC> lol
[04:01] <mjg59> infinity: I think Suse might be shipping GPL-violating ltmodem
[04:01] <infinity> I'm SHOCKED.
[04:03] <zul> ;ater
[05:17] <BenC> mjg59: FYI I did a hibernate on my P4 with intel IDE, and it worked fine
[05:17] <BenC> usb and and wireless card came back up
[05:28] <infinity> BenC : -8.10 is >= -rc5, right?
[05:32] <infinity> Oh, rc5 is old, we must be caught up to that.
[05:37] <BenC> no, -8.10 is -rc5
[05:37] <BenC> linus was gone for a week, and just got back
[05:37] <BenC> he did a lot of merging yesterday, but it was too much for me to pull and be able to get -8.10 out for flight 2 on time
[05:38] <infinity> Well, I did say ">=", not ">"
[05:38] <infinity> So, we're on the same page.
[05:38] <BenC> oh, missed that
[05:41] <infinity> Woo, first attempt at compiling the new ATI driver fails MISERABLY.
[05:41] <infinity> Go ATI.
[05:47] <infinity> ... because they repacked the panel sources to exclude a header it needs...
[05:47] <infinity> W... T... F...
[05:47] <infinity> No other changes, except removing the header.
[05:47] <infinity> HATE.
[05:55] <BenC> lol
[05:56] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:56] <BenC> hey fabbione
[05:57] <infinity> OO, amd64 kernels are ready.
[05:57] <fabbione> woo new crack
[05:58] <BenC> amd64 always wins the first-build race
[05:58] <fabbione> BenC: not always :)
[05:58] <fabbione> there were times where sparc was winning :)
[05:59] <infinity> Well, i386 has too many flavours.
[05:59] <BenC> sparc only builds 2 kernels, it isn't allowed to compete yet :)
[05:59] <fabbione> BenC: nah.. i was prebuilding the pkgs and made them enter the archive 5 minutes after the source :)
[05:59] <BenC> lol
[06:00] <infinity> CHEATING.
[06:00] <fabbione> infinity: no.. they were properly sbuilded
[06:01] <fabbione> you know.. that thing called pre-upload build test
[06:01] <BenC> they had premature access to the source though :)
[06:01] <infinity> CHEATING.
[06:02] <infinity> And powerpc and i386 are in a dead heat for second place, both building packages right now..
[06:02] <infinity> ia64, as always, will be dead last (well, for the DC arches... I'm not sure where sparc and hppa fit in)
[06:02] <fabbione> infinity: i would have done the same if we had m68k :)
[06:03] <BenC> no, hppa is dead last
[06:03] <infinity> m68k has too many subarches to play this game fairly.
[06:03] <infinity> Slowest hardware in Debian, but we build more kernels than anyone else.
[06:04] <fabbione> infinity: distcc :)
[06:04] <infinity> If it were up to me, we'd drop all "old m68k" support, except for Amiga and Atari, and concentrate on ColdFire targets.
[06:04] <fabbione> let's make an m68k cluster
[06:04] <BenC> m68k is worse than i386 cpu's...I bet we could push min cpu for ia32 to 586 before debian got rid of m68k :)
[06:04] <infinity> Who seriously wants to run a modern OS on a 68k Mac anyway?
[06:04] <infinity> BenC : MY Amiga goes toe-to-toe with My Pentium 233MMX, so that seems fair.
[06:05] <infinity> s/My/my/  ... Wow, I've been Microsofted.
[06:05] <fabbione> ahaa
[06:06] <infinity> Anyhow, if I can shoehorn ColdFire support into Debian's toolchain, m68k could become a reality for Ubuntu in microbuntu.
[06:06] <infinity> Lots (and LOTS) of Linux/Coldfire projects out there right now in the embedded world.
[06:07] <fabbione> infinity: what's Coldfire?
[06:07] <infinity> ColdFire == Newage m68k.
[06:07] <BenC> yeah, I have some Crestron equipment that I'd love to hack on
[06:07] <infinity> Dropped a few "useless instructions", added a few new ones (hardware RNG and crypto accel, mostly), and bumped the speed a bit.
[06:08] <BenC> does coldfire have mmu?
[06:08] <infinity> Yeahp.
[06:08] <infinity> Well, some do.  Same at the oldskool m68k line, you can get them with and without MMU.
[06:08] <BenC> I'd love to have ubuntu boot on my crestron touchscreen RF remove :)
[06:08] <infinity> Obviously, we'd target the MMU varienty.  The 68knommu target is much less interesting to Ubuntu.
[06:09] <BenC> *remote
[06:09] <infinity> The fastest ColdFires look to be on par with mid-range ARM, so it's no slouch.
[06:09] <infinity> Not "fast", but "fast enough".
[06:10] <BenC> it's got 32Megs of ram and 8megs of flash, plenty enough for OOo, firefox, and all of gnome
[06:10] <infinity> (And very, very low power, hence why it's being used places where people are saying no to ARM)
[06:10] <infinity> Oh, hey, LRM built.  That can't be right.
[06:10] <infinity> It surely MUST be broken.
[06:17] <BenC> so lrm is uploaded?
[06:18] <infinity> Nah.  Testing on machines here to make sure I didn't bugger it.
[06:18] <infinity> But I already uploaded the .orig.tar.gz to chinstrap, so I can fire off the rest rapidly when the kernel headers get NEWed.
[06:19] <infinity> That 80 meg upload is hell on my connection.
[06:20] <BenC> I have linux-meta ready
[06:21] <infinity> Did you actually bump the ABI this time? :P
[06:21] <infinity> (Last time it was a changelog entry with no debian/rules change..)
[06:23] <BenC> yes :P
[06:24] <infinity> Hey, someone has to keep you kernel genius types from getting a big head. :)
[06:24] <BenC> my wife is good at stiffling my ego
[06:25] <infinity> If by "stifling your ego", you mean "crushing your soul", mine's pretty good at that too.
[06:25] <infinity> Is hppa still gcc-3.4 in this upload (and still the only gcc-3.4 arch)?
[06:26] <BenC> yeah
[06:26] <infinity> Hrm.
[06:27] <infinity> Can I reliably extract the compiler from /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.15-$(ABI)/Makefile or something, rather than hardcoding it in each LRM upload?
[06:27] <BenC> nah
[06:28] <BenC> but if you used the kernel build system like a good module build, it would automatically do all this for you :)
[06:28] <infinity> Some LRM modules do, not all.
[06:30] <infinity> madwifi, for instance, is well-behaved.
[06:30] <infinity> If it wasn't for that little ath_hal bit, I'm sure it would find its way into the main tree.
[06:34] <infinity> BenC : -7.9 was also -rc5, yes?
[06:34] <infinity> (or close enough)?
[06:34] <BenC> close
[06:35] <infinity> Kay.  I'm testing some patches that were for "-rc5 and over", but I can't be bothered snagging the new kernels from the buildds to test...
[06:35] <BenC> sweet, the big three are done
[06:36] <infinity> Specifically, stuff targetted at the new vm_insert_page() stuff.
[06:36] <BenC> anything new from nvidia for that?
[06:36] <infinity> Yeah.  Which is what I'm testing. :)
[06:36] <BenC> I keep seeing WARN_ON()'s
[06:36] <BenC> ah, cool
[06:38] <infinity> Sometime, I need to sit down and backport some of these changes to the -legacy driver...
[06:38] <infinity> Not that -legacy doesn't work, but I suspect it's getting flakier and flakier with each kernel release.
[06:39] <fabbione> infinity: i assume we will have to drop it sooner or later
[06:39] <fabbione> at a certain point it won't build anymore
[06:40] <infinity> Upstream has committed to supporting it.
[06:40] <infinity> zander keeps releasing patches for it.
[06:40] <infinity> Just not as many as he does for the new driver.
[06:41] <infinity> So, it builds, it works, it's just not as loved.
[06:41] <fabbione> ok
[06:45] <fabbione> hmm Kamion was mentioning a udeb pkg that does the default kernel selection in d-i
[06:45] <fabbione> but i can't remember which one it is
[06:45] <fabbione> ah there it is
[06:45] <fabbione> base-installer
[06:46] <infinity> Okay, NVIDIA stuff (old and new) works, now to test fglrx... Kiss the laptop goodbye.
[06:47] <infinity> (fglrx will porbably still OOPS, from what I understand... ATI sucks)
[06:47] <infinity> BenC : When do you expect 2.6.15 to be final?
[06:47] <infinity> BenC : ATI "doesn't support unreleased kernels" like NVIDIA does.
[06:47] <fabbione> infinity: i am pretty sure .15 is not too far from now
[06:48] <infinity> Good.  Then maybe the next fglrx release will stop sucking.
[06:48] <infinity> Oh well, off to test this one anyway.
[06:48] <fabbione>     Linux v2.6.15-rc5
[06:48] <fabbione>
[06:48] <fabbione>     Hey, for no other reason than the fact that I'll be off-line for a
[06:48] <fabbione>     week.
[06:48] <fabbione>
[06:48] <fabbione>     Of course, I could force everybody to just use git (and when I'm emperor
[06:48] <fabbione>     of the world, don't think I won't!), but it seems some people want to
[06:48] <fabbione>     just test official releases.  Even if they are just -rc's.
[06:48] <fabbione>
[06:48] <fabbione>     By the time I'm back, Andrew will have fixed all my bugs, and I'll
[06:48] <fabbione>     release it as 2.6.15 and take all the credit.
[06:48] <fabbione>
[06:48] <fabbione>     Mwahahahaaa
[06:48] <fabbione>
[06:48] <fabbione>     Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:49] <infinity> What day was that?
[06:49] <fabbione> Date:   Sat Dec 3 21:10:42 2005 -0800
[06:49] <infinity> Okay, so triple his "one week" estimate, and that gives us a final release in 11 days or so.
[06:49] <infinity> Not too bad.
[06:50] <BenC> I think it will be a new years release
[06:50] <BenC> christmas coming up, he wont be getting a lot done
[06:51] <infinity> Just cause Linux like flash and show?
[06:51] <infinity> s/Linux/Linus/
[06:51] <infinity> Which conjured up all sorts of images I didn't want.
[06:51] <infinity> THANKS LINUS.
[06:51] <BenC> yeah, holiday releases are always good :)
[07:03] <fabbione> night Ben
[07:36] <infinity> BenC : Wait!
[07:36] <infinity> Meh, too late, I guess.
[08:00] <fabbione> infinity: anything i can do?
[08:30] <infinity> fabbione : No, I just wanted him to put his linux-meta changes somewhere, so I could upload them when the kernels are NEWed.
[08:30] <infinity> I assume he changed stuff for the -server rename, etc, and didn't want to duplicate the effort.
[08:31] <fabbione> infinity: ah ok
[12:46] <CataEnry> hi all
[01:58] <BenC> linux-meta uploaded, for the interested
[01:59] <BenC> fabbione: ping
[01:59] <jbailey> BenC: Hey - saw the unix.ko builtin in the changelog.  I'm curious why you built it in, we loaded it in the initramfs.
[02:00] <fabbione> BenC: pong
[02:00] <fabbione> BenC: Adam did upload linux-meta too
[02:00] <BenC> jbailey: Keybuk/Kamion said to build it in
[02:00] <BenC> he did?
[02:00] <fabbione> yes
[02:00] <BenC> oh well, collision :)
[02:00] <Kamion> jbailey: everything was loading it unconditionally - good sign that it should be built-in
[02:01] <fabbione> BenC: what can i do for you?
[02:01] <jbailey> Kamion: Except for larger kernels making building floppies and such suck a little bit more.
[02:01] <BenC> fabbione: vtun is up if you want to push a kernel build
[02:01] <Kamion> yeah, well I didn't really mind either way; I certainly see your argument
[02:01] <fabbione> BenC: i am build gcj-4.1 now to track down the gcc (as) segfault
[02:02] <fabbione> BenC: i noticed that the tunnel problems happen my side when the tunnel dies...
[02:02] <Kamion> I didn't have any objections to building it in, but I don't think I said to build it in :)
[02:02] <fabbione> so i could restart it easily
[02:02] <BenC> fabbione: ah, didn't notice you were on there :)
[02:02] <fabbione> BenC: eheheh i can sneak everywhere :P
[02:02] <fabbione> but vtun has a bug on the server side and doesn't ifconfig down / up when the tunnel restarts.. so it hangs
[02:03] <fabbione> if i stop the server, ifconfig down, start the server, everything is cool
[02:03] <BenC> Kamion: slight exageration on my part to avoid getting blamed :)
[02:03] <fabbione> BenC: eheh :)
[02:03] <jbailey> Kamion, BenC: It's not a big deal, since it's small.  I'm occasionally hacking on floppy support for d-i in Debian.  Having small kernels is really important. =)
[02:03] <BenC> jbailey: does d-i itself need unix.ko?
[02:04] <fabbione> BenC: did you see the mail from Claire?
[02:04] <BenC> not yet
[02:04] <fabbione> BenC: ok
[02:04] <fabbione> let me know if you want to answer or should I
[02:04] <fabbione> both ways work for me
[02:04] <jbailey> BenC: Probably.  I don't think I need it for the bit where I get the user to put in a new floppy into the drive and hit enter to load stuff off of it, though.
[02:04] <BenC> fabbione: oh yeah, got that
[02:04] <BenC> was going to email him this morning
[02:04] <jbailey> BenC: That's Debian stuff mind you - I don't know that we care about floppy installs in Ubuntu.
[02:05] <fabbione> BenC: ok perfect
[02:05] <Kamion> BenC: yes, we need unix.ko, but having it built-in is fine too
[02:05] <Kamion> i.e. we need the feature, not necessarily the module
[02:05] <Kamion> floppy installs in Ubuntu have never worked yet, but they'd be really nice to do at *some* point
[02:05] <BenC> well, I _had_ to switch to ide-core being built-in, so adding unix was a small increase compared
[02:06] <jbailey> Kamion: Okay.  Honestly, I had assumed we would never care here.
[02:06] <BenC> otherwise it would have been a big todo exporting the kernel command_line out to the ide-core modules
[02:06] <jbailey> Kamion: I still maintain that as long as we include openoffice in the default install, we clearly don't care about any machine older than about 5 years. =)
[02:07] <jbailey> (And at that, they were high end machines 5 years ago)
[02:07] <BenC> I will never ever ever try to do a floppy install for as long as I live
[02:09] <BenC> how long has x86 been able to boot from floppy?
[02:09] <BenC> err, cdrom
[02:09] <fabbione> at least 5 years
[02:09] <fabbione> actually... 7
[02:10] <BenC> win95 install could be booted from cdrom, couldn't it?
[02:10] <fabbione> yup
[02:10] <Mithrandir> BenC: nt4 could boot off CD
[02:10] <Kamion> I still get requests *shrug*
[02:10] <jbailey> Mithrandir: SCSI Cdrom, yes.
[02:10] <BenC> the original nt4 installs I did couldn't
[02:10] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Not the first IDEs
[02:10] <Kamion> from owners of laptops that don't boot properly off CD-ROM
[02:11] <Mithrandir> jbailey: sure, but SCSI is teh way.
[02:11] <Kamion> the laptop can run Ubuntu fine once it's installed, it's just that the BIOS is fucked
[02:11] <fabbione> Kamion: point them to netboot :)
[02:11] <BenC> I don't think I own a machine with a floppy anymore
[02:11] <Kamion> fabbione: I do, but seriously dude, that's stupid and tedious for laptops
[02:11] <jbailey> Mithrandir: SCSI is an indiciation that you came from the sabdfl "I have too much money" school of business. =)
[02:11] <BenC> except my i2k, but I'd rip it out if I could
[02:11] <Mithrandir> I think I first booted off CDROMs back before there were IDE cdroms.
[02:11] <Kamion> or USB sticks, but they can't all boot from USB either
[02:11] <Mithrandir> jbailey: my father worked at the university and brought all the new and shiny stuff home to play with^W^Wtest.
[02:12] <Kamion> at the moment they have to use Smart Boot Manager which apparently is some kind of floppy->CD bootstrap weirdness
[02:12] <fabbione> Kamion: i install my laptops with netboot... what's wrong with it?
[02:12] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Yeah, I remember that from when my father owned the first computer store in the lowermainland
[02:12] <Kamion> fabbione: not everybody is you
[02:12] <fabbione> Kamion: i know.. and nobody will ever wish that :)
[02:12] <jbailey> Mithrandir: All sorts of crazy new shit.    What I should do is hack the wireless box and run my tftp server on it directly.
[02:14] <jbailey> fabbione: But since even the new linksys "L" boxes are crippled somewhat, I think I'll wait for another hobbiest hacking box.
[02:14] <BenC> I wonder if I could turn dialup back on and have the linksys route my ssh traffic over that
[02:14] <BenC> dialup was 5 times less lag than this dialup
[02:16] <BenC> jbailey: get wrt54g(s)
[02:16] <jbailey> They don't sell the s's anymore, apparently.
[02:16] <BenC> I have my two running dd-wrt, and 7db atennas, and they work great
[02:16] <BenC> yeah, they do actually, at walmart
[02:16] <jbailey> Eh, really?
[02:16] <BenC> just don't get v5
[02:16] <BenC> v4 is ok
[02:17] <jbailey> BenC: I'll go look at my local store, otherwise can I get you to pick one up next time you're at walmart and I'll buy it off of you?
[02:17] <BenC> sure
[02:17] <jbailey> walmart probably has such a long stock line that they just haven't run out yet.
[02:17] <BenC> yeah, I think that is the case
[02:17] <jbailey> I need to head downtown today anyway at some point.  I'll check future shop.
[02:17] <BenC> g or gs, it's $50 and $80
[02:18] <BenC> ?
[02:18] <jbailey> 'cause yeah  The gs had 32mb of ram, IIRC?
[02:18] <jbailey> BenC: http://www.futureshop.ca/ is a large computer chain here.
[02:18] <BenC> don't think so
[02:18] <BenC> just had the speed boost
[02:18] <BenC> v5 only has 4megs
[02:18] <jbailey> Mind you, I should probably go support the only union walmart in qubec. =)
[02:18] <BenC> that's why they can't be hacked on
[02:18] <BenC> lol
[02:21] <jbailey> Hmm
[02:22] <jbailey> I forgot that it's decemeber.  Can't buy anything for myself - house rules.
[02:27] <fabbione> speaking of which
[02:27] <fabbione> i need a Gigabit switch
[02:31] <BenC> who is going to be required to go to the distro sprint, all of the distro team?
[02:31] <BenC> I was already planning a World Series of Power Circuit tournament that was on Feb 7 :/
[02:32] <BenC> s/Power/Poker/
[02:34] <zul> heylo
[02:34] <fabbione> BenC: yes.. all of the distro team
[02:34] <fabbione> that would include you as well
[02:37] <jbailey> Note to BenC: If you have something important to you to do.  Book it early. =)
[02:37] <jbailey> That way at least you can fall back on the "But I paid for this already" argument.  I don't know how well it works, mind you, but...
[02:37] <BenC> it's already booked, I have a reservation with 3 other guys who are going to
[02:38] <BenC> tournament fee paid
[02:41] <mjg59> When/where is the distro sprint?
[02:41] <jbailey> Yeah, make sure you note these in your staffcalendar.
[02:41] <jbailey> mjg59: End of January, in the UK.
[02:41] <jbailey> mjg59: I think we didn't want you to have to leave your army or something. =)
[02:42] <mjg59> Haha
[02:42] <mjg59> Except I'm in New Zealand
[02:42] <zul> which tournament BenC?
[02:42] <mjg59> You guys all suck
[02:42] <BenC> zul: World Series of Poker Circuit even in Harrah's in Atlantic City
[02:43] <zul> cool...im totally in the wrong area
[02:43] <BenC> mjg59: you looked at #18164 at all?
[02:43] <jbailey> mjg59: New Zealand?  WTH are you down there?
[02:43] <Kamion> jbailey: better class of sheep
[02:43] <jbailey> mjg59: Haven't you seen from the Canonical folks what happens when you stand upside down for too long?
[02:43] <mjg59> LCA
[02:44] <mjg59> BenC: Yeah, Linux hates HPs
[02:44] <mjg59> It's worse on the nx6125 for some reason
[02:44] <mjg59> Haven't figured out if it's Linux or the BIOS
[02:44] <mjg59> I'll give it a kick at some point
[02:45] <mjg59> (Can somebody please check whether suspend is broken for them on x86 and work out why? I still don't have time, and won't until some time next year)
[02:45] <BenC> the kernel.org bug report shows they are getting acpi thermal events from hw, just that they are getting out to userspace
[02:45] <BenC> mjg59: I did /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh last night on my P4, and it worked
[02:46] <mjg59> BenC: Hibernate is fine, it's suspend that's broken
[02:47] <mjg59> BenC: Rather, the kernel bug shows that the DSDT is being executed, but not that stuff is getting to the higher kernel levels. Sigh.
[02:48] <mjg59> That'll be fun to track down
[02:49] <mjg59> Actually, it might not be too bad
[02:49] <mjg59> Sprinkle some printks through it, see where it's dropping them
[02:50] <BenC> mjg59: how do I force suspend?
[02:51] <mjg59> BenC: /etc/acpi/sleep.sh
[02:51] <mjg59> Might need to enable it in /etc/default/acpi-support first
[02:59] <BenC> how are others seeing it fail?
[03:00] <BenC> mine didn't really do much, except corrupt my vga, and if up/down my network interface
[03:02] <BenC> mjg59: the odd thing about that bug is that if they run acpi -t, it gets events, so to me it sounds like a kernel bug
[03:03] <mjg59> BenC: Machine hangs when it should go to sleep
[03:03] <mjg59> BenC: acpi -t executes further DSDT code
[03:04] <BenC> setting acpi sleep to ram didn't work for me it seems
[03:04] <BenC> acpi standby worked
[03:04] <BenC> neither froze the machine though
[03:07] <BenC> suspend to mem goes down (disables everything, I can see in dmesg), but comes right back up
[03:08] <BenC> how do I enable suspend to disk?
[03:08] <mjg59> That's what hibernate does
[03:09] <BenC> ok
[03:09] <BenC> well, I didn't freeze up, -8.10-686 kernel
[03:10] <BenC> standby fixed my vga console too
[03:10] <mjg59> Well, if it didn't actually sleep, then it's not going through the codepath that's failing
[03:10] <BenC> how can I debug why it didn't sleep?
[03:10] <BenC> maybe I need to build a acpi debug enabled kernel
[03:11] <mjg59> dmesg ought to give a hint
[03:12] <BenC> says nothing
[03:12] <BenC> after the last IRQ disable, it starts enabling irqs/devices again
[03:13] <mjg59> Right
[03:13] <mjg59> What does /sys/power/state look like?
[03:13] <BenC> "standby disk", so I guess I don't have suspend to mem support
[03:13] <BenC> my G4 does have suspend to mem
[03:13] <BenC> guess I can give it a try
[03:14] <BenC> ah, but that's isn't acpi, so probably pointles
[03:19] <infinity> BenC : Sorry for the collision, I wasn't sure when you were coming back.
[03:19] <BenC> no problem
[03:22] <infinity> mjg59 : Say, when do I get my screen-lock (screen close) button working again?
[03:24] <mjg59> infinity: Oh, soon
[04:06] <AcidPils> hi
[04:06] <AcidPils> finally my acx module is working, but i dont know why :o
[04:06] <BenC> did you upgrade to -8?
[04:07] <AcidPils> nope :o
[04:07] <BenC> heh, it may break again, but it may also work better :)
[04:07] <BenC> can you install linux-restricted-modules and new linux-image-2.6.15-8?
[04:07] <AcidPils> now i just have to get a link to my ap...
[04:07] <BenC> brand new acx module (acx, not acx_usb or acx_pci), and new firmware
[04:08] <AcidPils> *install*
[04:12] <infinity> I assume the acx module exports all the right magic for udev to handle hot/coldplugging for every known device?
[04:13] <AcidPils> <- get some beer and then reboot :o
[04:13] <BenC> it loads the filenames from acx/default/ by default
[04:14] <BenC> tries taicx1XXc%02x first (c == combined)
[04:14] <BenC> falls back to loading tiacx1XX and tiac1XXrYY as seperate bins
[04:15] <BenC> usb is always tiacx100usb
[04:15] <BenC> by default it looks in acx/default/, but with firmware_ver module parm, it will replace default with whatever version you pass
[04:16] <BenC> I hope udev can handle relative paths names for firmware files
[04:17] <BenC> mjg59: 20894 claims suspend is working with -8.10,
[04:18] <mjg59> BenC: That's hibernate again
[04:18] <BenC> the report says suspend to disk and mem
[04:18] <mjg59> Hmm
[04:18] <mjg59> Maybe it's fixed, then
[04:19] <BenC> I asked for confirmation that it works for mem too
[04:23] <AcidPils> hmm.. it works, exept for the missing link, but this is pebcak i think
[04:23] <AcidPils> except
[04:28] <BenC> zul: ping
[04:28] <BenC> missing link?
[04:29] <AcidPils> link is ok now, but still no ip
[04:29] <AcidPils> Link Quality=38/100
[04:30] <BenC> link speed?
[04:33] <AcidPils> 54mbit
[04:34] <AcidPils> iwconfig output: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5696
[04:34] <jbailey> BenC: BTW, I haven't been tracking carefully, but I haven't had X crashes in a few days I think.
[04:34] <AcidPils> oh, theres a key :o
[04:35] <jbailey> BenC: I only reliased it because of gnome-terminal breaking.  I hadn't been as careful making sure I  saved every few seconds before.
[04:35] <BenC> jbailey: ooh, nice
[04:35] <AcidPils> ok, key wasnt the problem
[04:36] <BenC> your signal level is really low
[04:37] <AcidPils> BenC: i know, but it worked already... two walls and a m ceiling
[04:37] <AcidPils> i am happy that there is a link at all ;)
[04:37] <BenC> yeah, it's progress :)
[04:42] <zul> BenC: pong
[04:43] <BenC> zul: 10834, you claimed to have it fixed in your git
[04:44] <zul> is that the acpi one? i had to revert it i was going to look at it tonight..
[04:55] <BenC> ok
[05:00] <siretart> AcidPils: nice essid ('default')
[05:01] <AcidPils> i like it ;)
[05:03] <jbailey> Far better than "linksys"
[05:03] <jbailey> That just conflicts with the neighbours. =
[05:03] <jbailey> )
[05:04] <AcidPils> *g*
[05:04] <AcidPils> my neighbours dont know what wlan is ;)
[05:08] <zul> BenC: basically its an annoying printk that i have to shutup
[05:09] <zul> but the real fix is to get the motherboard infomration and add it to asus_acpi.c
[05:18] <siretart> AcidPils: I don't know much about acx, but line 002 from your iwconfig output looks suspicous
[05:19] <siretart> AcidPils: try it without encryption
[05:20] <AcidPils> siretart: i did it already, nothing changes
[05:23] <siretart> AcidPils: I think that  Access Point: 00:00:00:00:00:00 should show your BSSID of your AP
[05:23] <AcidPils> siretart: yes
[05:24] <AcidPils> An address equal to 00:00:00:00:00:00 means that the card failed to associate with an Access Point (most likely a configuration issue)
[05:25] <siretart> so try without encryption. one point less that can go wrong
[05:26] <AcidPils> i have mn+
[05:26] <AcidPils> i have no enc atm
[05:26] <siretart> your iwconfig out shows that. hm
[05:26] <AcidPils> thats an old one
[05:27] <AcidPils> with encryption
[05:27] <siretart> ok
[05:27] <AcidPils> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5697 <-- without its the same
[05:28] <AcidPils> time to get some food brb
[05:29] <siretart> Encryption key:1234-5678-91? looks weird.
[05:40] <AcidPils> siretart: that was a test, simpel key so no typos ;)
[05:41] <AcidPils> i set iwconfig wlan0 key off but still no ap :(
[05:54] <BenC> AcidPils: what firmware got loaded?
[05:54] <BenC> you may need a different version
[05:54] <BenC> look in /lib/firmware/2.6.15-8-686/acx/
[05:55] <BenC> or whatever your kernel version is
[05:55] <BenC> in there is a readme that shows what firmware versions are available for your acx111 pci
[05:56] <BenC> so you can try doing "rmmod acx; modprobe acx firmware_ver=X.Y.X.B" to load different firmware
[05:56] <AcidPils> <IP_ADDRESS> is loaded
[05:56] <AcidPils> i try anotherone
[05:56] <BenC> ok, try older ones then
[05:57] <BenC> if you find that an older one works, shoot me your lspci -vvn for the device
[06:06] <AcidPils> hmm, when i use <IP_ADDRESS> i get some feedback
[06:06] <AcidPils> wlan0: association FAILED: peer sent response code 10 (Cannot support all requested capabilities in Capability Information field)
[06:06] <AcidPils> when i make ifup wlan0
[06:08] <BenC> glad to hear it's actually working...the firmware naming/ver code I added without testing :)
[06:08] <BenC> the firmware loading that is
[06:08] <AcidPils> *g*
[06:28] <fabbione> BenC: ping?
[06:28] <BenC> fabbione: pong
[06:28] <fabbione> [  119.181016]  NFSD: Using /var/lib/nfs/v4recovery as the NFSv4 state recovery d
[06:28] <fabbione> irectory
[06:28] <fabbione> [  119.181225]  NFSD: recovery directory /var/lib/nfs/v4recovery doesn't exist
[06:28] <fabbione> [  119.181229]  NFSD: starting 90-second grace period
[06:29] <fabbione> did we switch to nfs4 by default?
[06:29] <fabbione> i also need to figure how to get a bigger buffer for dmesg
[06:29] <BenC> pretty sure I didn't change any of that from breezy, but it's possible
[06:29] <fabbione> i can barely see 1/4 of what's in there with this box
[06:29] <BenC> kern.log
[06:30] <fabbione> i like dmesg better :)
[06:30] <BenC> nfsd is userspace nfsd, isn't it?
[06:32] <fabbione> nope
[06:32] <fabbione> kernel-server
[06:33] <fabbione> i am pretty sure this message is new
[06:33] <fabbione> since i switched to .15 i did check dmesg everytime
[06:33] <fabbione> and i am fairly confident it was not there in -7-
[06:33] <fabbione> but i can check again.. not just now
[06:35] <mjg59> BenC: Ok, suspend seems to be fixed
[06:35] <mjg59> Just had another confirmation
[06:35] <mjg59> Oh, and Alan Cox just posted another set of PATA patches for libata
[06:36] <mjg59> We need to make some sort of decision on whether to go with that or not (my suspicion is that we should wait until Dapper+1)
[06:48] <BenC> yeah, we need to come up with some sort of upgrade plan
[06:51] <zul> fabbione: dmesg -s works
[09:02] <zul> damn it my $40 earphones broke
[09:56] <CataEnry> hi all
[10:08] <zul> later
[10:11] <BenC> are pctel modems supported by linux-restricted-modules?
[10:19] <mjg59> No
[10:19] <mjg59> At least, I don't think so
[10:19] <mjg59> Aren't they AC97s? Do they not work with sl-modem?
[10:19] <BenC> I'm just closing bug reports asking to support them, the driver looks too risky even for lrm
[10:21] <BenC> nah, these certain ones have to be compiled with pre-built object files of unknown origin
[10:23] <mjg59> BenC: Should work fine with the alsa driver and sl-modem-daemon
[10:29] <mjg59> Hm. There's a few chipsets that are only supported with the actual sl-modem driver, which would have to go in l-r-m
[10:32] <mjg59> Oh, gah, maybe there are some non-AC97 ones
[10:32] <mjg59> Hngh
[11:33] <BenC> crispin: can you try booting with disable_timer_pin_1 and see if that helps?
[11:34] <BenC> if it does, send me dmidecode, and I'll start a blacklist for systems experiencing that problem
[11:34] <crispin> I just add that to the command line ?
[11:34] <BenC> yeah
[11:34] <crispin> k
[11:37] <crispin> urgh, that causes the machine not to boot
[11:38] <crispin> removing the 'quiet splash', it gets to "Running /scripts/init-premount"
[11:38] <crispin> then some ACPI stuff appears, then nothing
[11:43] <crispin> BenC: could the values in /etc/adjtime be causing a fast clock ?
[11:43] <crispin> I have no idea how that file is used ....
[11:44] <BenC> not sure, I don't know how it all works together
[11:44] <crispin> 1 second in 5 minutes is what my machine is gaining


[13:05] <mgedmin> so that was unfriendly
[13:05] <mgedmin> I'm installing updates with Update Manager while reading the web
[13:06] <mgedmin> and suddenly gdm restarts (it was one of the updates) without asking me if it's okay
[13:06] <mgedmin> and I'm logged out and all my programs are closed
[19:06] <nazgul_> dmin
[19:51] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Why hasn't libgda5 been merged?
[19:51] <Noskcaj> it looks fairly simple
[21:30] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I haven't looked at it, since it wasnt required by anything
[21:30] <darkxst> but its probably ok to do


[08:32] <bobJabba> Hi all. Done upgrading? :D
[08:35] <bobJabba> Walang sumasagot... mukhang busy sa pag-upgrade. Hehe :P
[08:55] <Terminus> bobJabba: still mirroring here. =D
[09:02]  * bobJabba apir kay Terminus
[09:07] <Terminus> the scheduled mirror update just kicked in 50 minutes ago. this is gonna take a while...
[09:15] <bobJabba> Go go go! Suportahan ta ka :D But I gtg. Talk to you guys later... or rather, lurk with you guys later :P
[15:41] <zakame> kidsodateless: yo
[22:31] <bobJabba> Hey hey


[12:58] <kiko> BradB, is __dict__ available on an SQLO?
[12:59] <BradB> nope, because if the interface
[12:59] <BradB> i wrote SQLObjectEditView though
[12:59] <BradB> so, it does this:
[12:59] <BradB>                 class Snapshot(object):
[12:59] <BradB>                     pass
[12:59] <BradB>                 content_before_modification = Snapshot()
[12:59] <BradB>                 for name in self.schema.names():
[12:59] <BradB>                     setattr(
[12:59] <BradB>                         content_before_modification,
[12:59] <BradB>                         name, getattr(content, name))
[01:00] <BradB> later, i have:
[01:00] <BradB>                     notify(SQLObjectModifiedEvent(
[01:00] <BradB>                         content, content_before_modification, self.fieldNames))
[01:01] <BradB> it can probably use some improvement, but then, so can everything else. it works for now.
[01:01] <BradB> the tricky part (where i stopped earlier, and will resume tomorrow) is to output foo.bar in a useful way...knowing that it might be a "displayable" value, or an id for a vocab, or even an sqlobject.
[04:26] <kiko> Indeed, because the Snapshot isn't an SQLO.
[04:38] <BradB> kiko: that doesn't affect anything though
[04:38] <BradB> it's got the values
[04:38] <BradB> (and, of course, the snapshot can't be an sqlobject)
[04:41] <kiko> BradB, well, it affects the fact that following references doesn't unpersist them magically :)
[04:42] <BradB> nope. a snapshot of foo.person is still that ref to Person
[04:43] <kiko> oh.
[04:43] <kiko> you're actually handling that as well?
[04:44] <BradB> there's nothing special to do
[04:44] <BradB> foo.person is a Person, so when i assign that to something else (e.g. to the snapshot object), i've still got a person
[04:44] <kiko> I see. SQLO takes care of that for you when you so getattr(content, name).
[04:44] <BradB> yup
[04:44] <kiko> yes, I'm thinking at a lower level.
[04:45] <kiko> so how's canada BradB?
[04:46] <BradB> i'm kickin it in the plateau in montreal; it's great
[04:46] <kiko> winter's closing in huh?
[04:46] <kiko> we just bought a dual xeon server for the office, it toasts
[04:46] <BradB> whouch
[04:46] <BradB> yeah, winter's coming on. i'm ready for it.
[04:46] <kiko> the case weighs approximately a ton
[04:47] <BradB> heh
[04:47] <kiko> you bought a blanket?
[04:47] <BradB> built a better igloo
[04:47] <BradB> :P
[04:47] <kiko> you would be amazed at how hot this office is today man.
[04:47] <kiko> then again, http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/507802/
[04:48] <BradB> hmmmm
[04:49] <BradB> so maybe sweat shops are the One True Way
[04:49] <kiko> you mean literal sweat shops. that's us. :)
[04:49] <BradB> heh
[04:50] <BradB> i went shopping for a thinkpad the other day...turns out the place i went (future shop) doesn't even sell em, ugh.
[04:50] <kiko> oh, so you didn't get one?
[04:50] <kiko> did jblack find anything surprising about HFS+?
[04:50] <BradB> nope, not yet, i'll find a place on the weekend
[04:50] <BradB> nope, hfs+ sucks
[04:50] <BradB> ufs would be better. i'd like to hold onto os x, but i'm almost ready to give it up.
[04:51] <BradB> i either buy a new powerbook, or a buy a new not-powerbook
[04:51] <BradB> on a new pb g4, i'd put panther and UFS
[04:53] <kiko> and UFS is nice?
[04:53] <BradB> it's supposed to be much, much faster than HFS+
[04:53] <BradB> i could live with it being a bit slower than ext3, but only so much...
[04:54] <kiko> have you considered running LNX on that thing?
[04:54] <BradB> the only thing i'd do to this machine is put more ram in it. i'm waiting till i get new hardware to be installing any new os, whether it's os x or linux.
[11:58] <sabdfl> cool
[11:58] <sabdfl> events. very cool.
[02:45] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>changes on Nicole still not working on mawson (patch-676)
[03:49] <SteveA> BradB: full moinmoin is now in zwiki
[03:49] <SteveA> I'll produce another snapshot in a bit.
[03:49] <BradB> SteveA: i think sabdfl was going to get the zwiki guys to take care of installing it, but i could be wrong
[03:50] <sabdfl> hi guys
[03:50] <BradB> hi :)
[03:51] <sabdfl> BradB: didn't want to distract you from malone so i thought roche could do it
[03:51] <sabdfl> but if it's really quick, then let's do it amongst ourselves
[03:51] <sabdfl> two things: need to restrict the wiki folder to just wiki pages
[03:51] <sabdfl> and need to prevent the wiki pages from showing up in the navbar on the left
[03:51] <sabdfl> inside the wiki, we'll just use wiki navigation
[03:53] <sabdfl> BradB: how does the locking mechanism work? nominated people only can edit those pages?
[03:53] <BradB> okay, so basically all this involves is installing zwiki, and blowing away and readding /wiki?
[03:53] <sabdfl> no, can leave the existing /wiki
[03:53] <BradB> ok
[03:53] <sabdfl> we'll just move the stuff they have created there to better locations
[03:54] <sabdfl> limit /wiki/ to wiki pages only
[03:54] <BradB> sabdfl: with locking, only managers can unlock/edit the pages
[03:54] <sabdfl> ok, and who sets the list of managers?
[03:54] <BradB> dunno
[03:54] <BradB> maybe roche was doing that before
[03:54] <BradB> maybe there's a group set up so that it's easy to do through the plone ui, but i haven't looked
[03:55] <SteveA> https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-23.tar.gz
[03:55] <SteveA> simon took out the previous moinmoin support, and ported the parsing directly from moinmoin itself
[03:55] <sabdfl> i suspect lulu knows
[03:55] <SteveA> isn't it wonderful when lots of open source projects are written in python
[03:56] <sabdfl> let's help the world get more wonder :-)
[03:56] <SteveA> lulu was setting up managers using the plone UI for that
[03:57] <BradB> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/prefs_group_members?groupname=managers
[03:58] <ddaa> How can I have a look at the production launchpad?
[03:58] <ddaa> I want to know which sourcesources are still in the "do-not-sync" product.
[03:59] <ddaa> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/ gives me a 403
[04:05] <sabdfl> BradB: cool, thanks. when people edit a page on the web site that is not locked, do we get notified?
[04:05] <sabdfl> or can we see a list of pages that have been edited like that?
[04:07] <BradB> there's no notification happening, and there's no plone way of seeing a list of recently edited pages that i'm aware of (the collective is always having new products added though; it's possible there's something there that does something like that, but i'd have to dig around a bit)
[04:08] <sabdfl> SteveA: semantics?
[04:08] <BradB> SteveA: is repozo.py -B -f Data.fs going to backup the Data.fs nicely?
[04:08] <sabdfl> foo = IAnInterface(bar, None)
[04:08] <sabdfl> will that give an object adapted to IAnInterface, or none if it could not find the relevant adapter?
[04:09] <SteveA> adapt bar to IAnInterface.  If the adaption is not possible (bar does not provide IAnInterface, and is not adaptable to it), then return None.
[04:09] <SteveA> assign result to foo, of course
[04:09] <SteveA> yes, basically what you said
[04:09] <SteveA> BradB: um... I always have to check on the zodb wiki pages.  let me find them for you...
[04:09] <sabdfl> "is not adaptable"
[04:10] <sabdfl> is that calculated on the basis of interfaces that bar implements()?
[04:10] <BradB> SteveA: i can see the docs in the file itself, i'm just not sure if i can trust that it'll work. :)
[04:10] <SteveA> http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/repozo
[04:10] <SteveA> I've backed up and restored following the instructions there, on the ubuntulinux and canonical sites
[04:10] <SteveA> when gentoo went down when we were in london
[04:11] <SteveA> bbiab
[04:11] <BradB> ok, thanks, i'll read and go for it then
[04:11] <SteveA> oh, there are some filestorage/zodb fsref errors early in the storage. removed with a pack.  not serious.
[04:11] <SteveA> not caused by the power outage.
[04:15] <BradB> nice crontab entries:
[04:15] <BradB> # Zope has memory leaks ...
[04:15] <BradB> 3 */2 * * * /home/zope/instances/ubuntu/bin/zopectl restart > /dev/null 2>&1
[04:15] <BradB> 10 4 * * * /home/zope/instances/canonical/bin/zopectl restart > /dev/null 2>&1
[04:16] <sabdfl> BradB: i think elmo found that the zope instance was growing uncontrollably
[04:18] <BradB> yeah
[04:21] <BradB> the new wiki's installed
[04:27] <sabdfl> eish!
[04:27] <sabdfl> the wiki she is not working
[04:28] <sabdfl> BradB: ^
[04:28] <BradB> it will again now
[04:28] <sabdfl> ah
[04:28] <BradB> i broke it temporarily to add the restrict method, but it didn't do what i expected, so i've removed it temporarily
[04:32] <sabdfl> ok
[04:33] <BradB> there, restricting works
[04:33] <sabdfl> BradB: superstar, thanks
[04:33] <sabdfl> the existing non-wiki content can be moved out?
[04:33] <BradB> heh. last thing, i'll fix the navtree
[04:34] <BradB> it can be moved, sure
[04:38] <BradB> filtering should work fine in the navtree now
[04:39] <BradB> i notice members can't add wiki pages though
[04:42] <BradB> sabdfl: maybe that's how you guys want the perms though, i'm not sure. it's definitely configured to only allow managers to add wiki pages presently.
[04:42] <sabdfl> definitely want members to be able to create wiki pages
[04:44] <BradB> sabdfl: and delete pages?
[04:44] <BradB> or rename?
[04:44] <sabdfl> BradB: hmm.... maybe just managers for that
[04:44] <sabdfl> rename, yes, it's gacefully handled i think
[04:44] <sabdfl> not sure if rename to an existing name is caught well
[04:45] <BradB> it is
[04:46] <sabdfl> then yes, let members rename pages too
[04:49] <BradB> sabdfl: should be go to go now
[04:50] <sabdfl> navbar's still showing all the contents of /wiki/
[04:50] <sabdfl> should just show "Wiki" with nothing beneath that
[04:50] <sabdfl> forces the navigation inside the wiki to be wikinav only
[04:51] <BradB> oh, i just config'd it to not show wiki pages
[04:51] <BradB> hm
[05:01] <sabdfl> hmm... maybe it just shows when you are logged in
[05:05] <BradB> those folders'll show to anyone, because they're published
[05:05] <BradB> basically, the list of meta types to not list in the navtree is a site-wide configuration
[05:05] <BradB> so, i said site-wide to not show wiki pages in the navtree
[05:05] <sabdfl> bradb: ok
[05:06] <sabdfl> it's looking pretty slick now, what do you think?
[05:06] <BradB> but since those folders are published, users still see them. can we make those folders under /wiki simply "visible"?
[05:06] <sabdfl> >:-)
[05:06] <BradB> seems pretty cool
[05:06] <sabdfl> those folder really should not be there at all
[05:06] <sabdfl> i gave the doc team some directions to start playing with it
[05:06] <sabdfl> and they created that content
[05:06] <sabdfl> i thought i'd cut and pasted the one folder to somewhere else
[05:06] <BradB> if it's only going to be wiki pages under /wiki, then this problem will magically go away once those folders are moved to better locations.
[05:07] <sabdfl> i guess the deleted pages one needs to stay there, but doens't have to be published
[05:07] <BradB> it isn't currently (I'm assuming, because i don't see it while looking at the page unauth'd)
[05:08] <sabdfl> right
[05:08] <sabdfl> silly me :-)
[05:08] <sabdfl> and the other folders are just cache hangovers, will be gone in an hour or two
[05:08] <sabdfl> ok, i'm going to un-publish the wiki entry too, now we know it's working, so the doc team can continue to work quietly till we announce the switch
[05:09] <BradB> you're seeing the other folders because you're a manager
[05:09] <BradB> there's a site-wide setting that says "let managers see hidden content"
[05:09] <BradB> i don't see anything but those two prev mentioned folders when logged in as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:11] <sabdfl> i've retracted the wiki content
[05:11] <BradB> pages?
[05:11] <sabdfl> so now we just have to get the old wiki content across and send out the announcement
[05:11] <sabdfl> thanks bradb
[05:11] <BradB> no prob
[05:12] <sabdfl> pages?
[05:27] <BradB> n/m, everything should be good
[06:06] <sabdfl> stevea: ping
[06:07] <SteveA> hi
[06:07] <SteveA> need a hand moving wiki content?
[06:08] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>canonical.arch.infoUpdater bugfix and increased verbosity (patch-677)
[06:08] <sabdfl> stevea: may have found a blocker on that front
[06:08] <sabdfl> pages like /ReleaseSchedule
[06:09] <sabdfl> in moin, these are nested
[06:09] <sabdfl> so we have WartyWarthog/ReleaseSchedule
[06:09] <sabdfl> and HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule
[06:09] <sabdfl> what's the zwiki equivalent?
[06:09] <sabdfl> can the zwiki span folders?
[06:09] <sabdfl> can a folder be a wiki page?
[06:09] <sabdfl> sort of
[06:10] <sabdfl> everything was going swimmingly till that point though, Moin tables *no problem* :-)
[06:10] <SteveA> they're not really nested, though, in moin
[06:10] <SteveA> it is just using the name with an artificial / in it
[06:10] <sabdfl> no, it's that bastard _2ef thing
[06:11] <SteveA> in zwiki, you usually just catenate things:  WartyWarthogReleaseSchedule
[06:11] <SteveA> there is no particular magic nesting
[06:11] <SteveA> I'll just check about subfolders
[06:13] <SteveA> can't see a way to do subfolders without making a new ZWiki (with its own namespace) inside that subfolder
[06:13] <SteveA> if it really is a separate wiki namespace, then that's the thing to do
[06:14] <SteveA> otherwise, we can use WikiBadges to organise things into subtopics
[06:14] <SteveA> for example, have WartyWarthogRelated in each page that is to do with warty
[06:14] <sabdfl> from a search point of view it's probably fine to do it in separate wikis
[06:14] <SteveA> and so, that becomes a place where all warty-related things are linked from and too
[06:14] <SteveA> yeah -- site search will pick it all up
[06:15] <SteveA> But, a standard wiki name link won't work
[06:15] <sabdfl> except in the local namespace
[06:15] <SteveA> shouldn't be a hard feature to add, though, to make it work
[06:15] <SteveA> yeah -- I mean between nested wikis
[06:15] <sabdfl> would it require traversal hints in the name? ../HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule?
[06:16] <SteveA> not sure what to do about the page that is the root of the nested wiki
[06:16] <sabdfl> FrontPage as ever
[06:16] <SteveA> if that is WartyWarthog, then is that in the containing wiki, or the nested wiki?
[06:16] <SteveA> you can't have a page called WartyWarthog and a wiki folder called WartyWarthog
[06:16] <sabdfl> and renaming could get fun
[06:16] <sabdfl> hmm...
[06:17] <SteveA> you'd do the link as a standard "external" link, or as an inter-wiki link
[06:17] <sabdfl> maybe we should just concatenate and be done with it
[06:17] <SteveA> yeah -- probably best to keep it simple to start with
[06:17] <sabdfl> interwiki?
[06:17] <SteveA> if warty / hoary grows its own stuff such that it would make sense to split it off, we can do that at that time
[06:17] <SteveA> maybe with help of a couple of bounties to make it work better
[06:18] <SteveA> http://zwiki.org/RemoteWikiLinks
[06:18] <SteveA> I meant "remote wiki links"
[06:18] <carlos> sabdfl: did we lost any chance to get ubuntu.org?
[06:19] <sabdfl> carlos: i think so
[06:19] <sabdfl> pity
[06:19] <carlos> :-(
[06:20] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>comments and better waterfall status (patch-62)
[06:20] <ddaa> sabdfl: have you made a decision on the location of the arch sprint just before the conf?
[06:20] <sabdfl> ddaa: london
[06:20] <sabdfl> unless we can come to your house!
[06:21] <carlos> X-)
[06:21] <ddaa> There are two double beds available, but I'm uncertain that I would get the clearance from the landlord :-)
[06:21] <sabdfl> stevea: think we can do something semi-automatic on the migration?
[06:22] <sabdfl> or should we just brute force it tomorrow?
[06:22] <sabdfl> or get lulu to brute-force it Monday?
[06:22] <sabdfl> erm, that would be cute-force it
[06:23] <SteveA> we can probably do some things to make it easier.  maybe produce a web page with direct links to all the raw pages on the moin wiki
[06:23] <SteveA> that way, lulu can click on each link, and there's the stuff ready for pasting into a new page on zwiki
[06:24] <SteveA> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationArea?action=raw
[06:24] <SteveA> for example
[06:25] <SteveA> Here's a list of all pages in the moin wiki   http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TitleIndex?action=titleindex
[06:26] <SteveA> but, a lot of those are to do with the wiki itself :-(
[06:27] <sabdfl> yes, raw mode rocks
[06:27] <sabdfl> hmm...
[06:27] <sabdfl> could we nudge moin a little
[06:27] <sabdfl> to put a button at the top of the page
[06:28] <SteveA> there is a link at the top of the page
[06:28] <sabdfl> that posts a form with the right voodoo over to site-edit?
[06:28] <SteveA> oh..
[06:28] <sabdfl> and pre-populate the form with the right stuff
[06:28] <sabdfl> so lulu just clicks on that button and BOOM is in site-edit with the wiki page ready
[06:29] <SteveA> I guess that's possible.  I haven't looked at the moin code.
[06:30] <SteveA> I wonder whether a bookmarklet could do it
[06:30] <sabdfl> but the form contents and url would be predictable?
[06:30] <sabdfl> bookmarklet?
[06:30] <SteveA> bit of javascript you can put into a bookmark to extend your browser in interesting ways
[06:31] <sabdfl> i'd rather use a more limited tool set
[06:31] <SteveA> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiBookmarklet
[06:31] <sabdfl> we know python, moin and zope pretty well
[06:32] <SteveA> this is a one-off.  and, I think there might be a bookmarklet that does almost what we need already.
[06:32] <SteveA> I'll take a browse through http://www.bookmarklets.com/tools/categor.html
[07:31] <mdz> redhat has a shortcut from the top
[07:31] <mdz> -EWINDOW
[08:50] <BradB> panther rocks da boat
[08:52] <BradB> bbl
[09:01] <jblack> SteveA: Hey, you there?
[11:38] <jblack> any zope guys around?
[11:42] <SteveA> hey j
[11:42] <jblack> Hiya stevea.
[11:42] <jblack> I'm trying to do z3rc2. ./configure reports an optimum python, but I get an include error
[11:43] <SteveA> do you use jabber?
[11:43] <jblack> No sir.
[11:43] <SteveA> an include error is interesting
[11:44] <SteveA> paste here?  http://paste.husk.org/
[11:45] <jblack> http://paste.husk.org/1847
[11:46] <SteveA> oh, that's an ImportError
[11:46] <SteveA> not an include error
[11:46] <SteveA> you haven't installed python-dev
[11:46] <SteveA> so, you don't have distutils
[11:46] <jblack> So I haven't.
[11:46] <SteveA> I keep making the case that distutils should be part of the default python install
[11:46] <SteveA> but, sabdfl and mdz (I think) think otherwise
[11:46] <jblack> distutils is in python-dev, I take it?
[11:46] <SteveA> yes
[11:46] <SteveA> it is part of the standard library
[11:47] <SteveA> I'm philosophically opposed to splitting the standard library
[11:47] <SteveA> otherwise, it isn't "standard" any more
[11:47] <SteveA> anyhow, enough trolling
[11:47] <mdz> SteveA: I'm not sure about sabdfl, but that is not my position
[11:47] <spiv> SteveA: There's an ubuntu bug about it...
[11:47] <SteveA> mdz: ok, sorry I misrepresented
[11:47] <mdz> SteveA: it's here in black and white: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640
[11:48] <spiv> mdz: Beat me to it :)
[11:48] <jblack> There we go! :)
[11:49] <spiv> We had a user on #ubuntu today caught by this problem, too.
[11:49] <spiv> So, I'm looking forward to it being fixed in hoary :)
[11:53] <SteveA> jblack: if you feel it is appropriate, maybe add that you've been caught out by the odd error
[11:53] <SteveA> to the bug report
[11:53] <jblack> Doing...
[11:53] <jblack> Hey... Silly thought?
[11:54] <jblack> Would it be appropriate to add a check/warning to configure to check for python-dev?
[11:55] <SteveA> no
[11:55] <SteveA> because distutils is in the standard library
[11:55] <SteveA> it is a broken python installation that doesn't have all of the standard library
[11:56] <SteveA> in order to get the full python installation on ubuntu, you need python and python-dev
[11:56] <SteveA> but, this is not made clear
[11:56] <SteveA> so, you were mislead into thinking you had a standard python installed
[11:56] <SteveA> when in fact you had a non-standard subset
[11:58] <jblack> Ahhh, because ubuntu didn't install it.
[11:59] <SteveA> right.  "partial python" is in desktop or base or whatever
[12:00] <mdz> FWIW, if this issue had been raised a couple of months earlier, it's quite likely that it would have been changed for the Warty release
[12:00] <SteveA> I raised it a while ago
[12:00] <SteveA> can't remember exactly when
[12:00] <mdz> with me?
[12:00] <SteveA> no, with mark
[12:00] <SteveA> maybe I should have gone on the list too
[12:00] <jblack> I moaned lightly about gcc on canonical.
[12:00] <mdz> the first I heard about it was that bug report, which was about midway between preview and final
[12:00] <mdz> not the time to make that kind of change
[12:00] <jblack> actually, #warthogs


[06:04] <mapp> hi
[06:04] <mapp> ;]
[10:01] <SuperEngineer> hmmm - ever this morning Steam update psu running high 50-60% when it should be idling...
[10:02] <SuperEngineer> load averages for last 1,5,15 mins = 1.68, 1.66, 1.68 :(
[10:03] <SuperEngineer> ever *since
[10:05] <SuperEngineer> ...but could be a coincidence with the steam update - doesn't seem to matter whether is loaded or not
[10:40] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:48] <bashrc> morning
[11:08] <BaNaer_Liffan> Hi, is there someone here could help me with Ubuntu wireless please?
[11:26] <SuperEngineer> Thunderbirds movie on Ch5 at 13:15 folks.  [a.k.a childhood revisited] ;)
[11:31] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: the animated one, or the live action one?
[11:41] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon, guide doesn't say exactly but does say... "starring Bill Paxton & Ben Kingsley" so I guess it's not animated
[11:41] <brobostigon> i see.
[11:42] <SuperEngineer> but, you know... *Thunderbirds* ! [or there's always tythe rugby... not sure I'd notice the difference ;)
[11:54] <daftykins> :D
[13:01] <SuperEngineer> random question: why were "records" called "records" when they should have been pronouned "reecords"?
[13:02] <SuperEngineer> they were "reecorded" not "rehcorded"!
[13:04] <SuperEngineer> [funny what goes through your mind whilst waiting for nom noms :)
[13:07] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: No, I rehcord on something, not reecord
[13:10] <SuperEngineer> penguin42, oh no don't....
[13:12] <SuperEngineer> [darn these regional accents!]
[13:14] <penguin42> Well, I mean it wouldn't make sense to Reecord something on a Record would it
[13:17] <SuperEngineer> no, but that's because they were "reecordings" :p
[13:19] <SuperEngineer> ...& it's Thunderbirds time!
[13:19] <SuperEngineer> ..r should that be "Thunderboyds"?
[13:19] <SuperEngineer> :D
[13:27] <penguin42> definitely birds
[14:47] <zmoylan-pi> the theme tune for thunderbirds is excellent alarm music :-)
[14:48] <zmoylan-pi> ditto stingray...
[14:58] <shauno> not entirely sure I Want to wake up to "this is the voice of the mysterons" though
[14:58] <SuperEngineer> we know you can hear us Earthlings
[16:33] <diddledan> evening
[16:34]  * diddledan just accidentally bought a pair of physical media-based movies
[16:34] <diddledan> I really suck
[16:34] <penguin42> get out the projector then
[16:36] <diddledan> I did at least make sure they were UV-enabled
[16:36] <diddledan> so not all is lost
[16:37]  * zmoylan-pi bought a bunch of dvds on friday.  most ripped already
[16:45] <diddledan> got home just in time methinks - it's widdling it down now
[16:47] <diddledan> first rip underway
[16:48] <diddledan> 31GB
[16:48] <diddledan> not bad for one movie :-p
[16:52] <penguin42> ok ok what were the films you got?
[16:52] <diddledan> eh? it thinks it's gonna take over 5 hours (now up to 5:30) to rip this sucker
[16:52] <diddledan> godzilla and live, die, repeat: The edge of tomorrow
[16:53] <penguin42> hmm
[16:54] <diddledan> wow, WD make 6TB RED drives now
[16:54] <diddledan> me needs a few
[16:54] <penguin42> yeh I guess you need big drives to hold godzilla
[16:54] <diddledan> indeed
[16:55] <zmoylan-pi> mars attacks, spies like us
[16:55] <penguin42> ack ack!
[16:55] <zmoylan-pi> ack ack ack
[16:55] <penguin42> indeed
[16:55] <zmoylan-pi> terrible campy scifi.  excellent
[16:55] <diddledan> mars attacks was great
[16:56] <penguin42> nod
[16:56] <diddledan> I loved that they used modern tech to emulate 60s style scifi
[16:56] <diddledan> e.g. flying saucers
[16:56] <zmoylan-pi> some of the best sci fi is /terrible/ sci fi... tremors...
[16:56] <diddledan> tremors, now that is a great movie
[16:57] <directhex> we bought a bunch of 6T disks for the office
[16:57] <directhex> to increase our NAS
[16:57] <zmoylan-pi> tremors 2 + 3 are good as well
[16:57] <diddledan> yeah, I've seen all three and enjoyed them all
[16:57] <zmoylan-pi> why do you have cannon fuse?
[16:58] <diddledan> I like the radio-controlled toy car bombs
[16:58] <diddledan> or toy tanks
[16:58] <penguin42> I saw Storage 24 (On Film 4??) the other day - very B film
[18:03] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[18:24] <penguin42> evenin' bigcalm
[18:35] <bigcalm> What's happening kids?
[18:35] <penguin42> not much
[18:36] <bigcalm> Yay
[18:36] <bigcalm> I haven't typed this for a while
[18:36] <bigcalm> !rat
[18:57] <dutchie> rat \o/
[20:01] <bigcalm> dutchie: good to have you with us this year
[20:01] <dutchie> yes :)
[20:01] <bigcalm> At least I can't make the same gaff of when we 1st met in Liverpool. Where I asked if you were old enough to drink, while we were in the hipster bar
[20:03] <bigcalm> If you still have the beard, then it makes for proper ale drinking. My wife don't like beards, so I have to be a pretend ale drinker
[20:03] <dutchie> currently on about a week's stubble
[20:03] <dutchie> who knows how much will be there come september
[21:24] <daftykins> today was probably my first long cycle since my accident and recent illnesses
[21:24] <daftykins> i got my ass whooped badly :P legs are sooooo tired now :D
[21:24] <daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/2BhyL
[21:24] <daftykins> there's what i did
[21:34] <diddledan> does the queen know she owns a road there?
[21:34] <diddledan> she ought to charge rent
[21:36] <diddledan> how do you know which way to treat letters in placenames when it comes to saying it out loud - i.e. ruette des effards <-- how do you know that's french?
[21:37] <diddledan> like st pierre park hotel and golf resort - is that "saynt" or "san"?
[21:42] <daftykins> it's worse than that :) we pronounce things halfway between French and English
[21:42] <moreati> diddledan: buy a database with included pronunciation key, or wing it.
[21:42] <moreati> or if you're the BBC, have a pronuciation dept.
[21:42] <daftykins> we pronounce that one "roo-ette dez eff 'ards
[21:42] <daftykins> it's quite amusing hearing a mainlander pronounce L'islet
[21:42] <daftykins> "le iz-lette"
[21:42] <daftykins> but it's lee-lay :D
[21:43] <foobarry> liugh need to take te bins out
[21:43] <daftykins> ?
[21:44] <diddledan> eff 'ards is f tards?
[21:46] <foobarry> i mean
[21:46] <foobarry> ugh
[21:46] <foobarry> i need to take out the bins
[21:46] <diddledan> daftykins, leeloo
[21:46] <foobarry> grotty job just before bed
[21:46] <foobarry> just bought myself a fathers day gift
[21:47] <foobarry> now have to wait 3 months :S
[21:47] <foobarry> or whenever it is
[22:49] <mapp> jjst finished watcjing the loft..quite decent;D


[14:29] <limbe_> hello we install edubuntu with ltsp our clients are not pae now client does not start they need pae, some ides?
[19:51] <dviper> Not sure of this is the right place to ask for adding programs, if not please direct me. But I was wondering if the community is in the capacity to add Ascalaph Designer, an advanced open source chemistry program that runs on windows, but its component application run on fedora and opensuse.


[07:49] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 723 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/02/21/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-723/ (by guiverc)
[22:16] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Check Battery Status on Ubuntu Using This GNOME Extension @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/02/battery-status-health-applet-for-ubuntu (by Joey Sneddon)


[04:55] <troy_s> howdy Madpilot
[04:55] <Madpilot> hi troy_s
[04:56] <troy_s> the press is a little ridiculous
[04:56] <troy_s> as of a good month ago we had splinters of nothingness for a team
[06:34] <imbrandon> moins fellas
[06:35] <imbrandon> troy_s: give me a few more minutes for the stagin stuff
[06:35] <imbrandon> you gonna be arround ?
[06:35] <troy_s> yeah sure bro
[06:36] <imbrandon> kk ;)
[06:36] <imbrandon> lemme finish a few last things up
[06:36] <imbrandon> gonna be a long night but i'm gonna get this rollin TONIGHT if it kills me LOL
[06:40] <troy_s> don't go too bananas
[06:41] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:52] <cbx33> Morning people
[10:52] <cbx33> who deals with sound themes?
[11:23] <bersace> nobody knows
[11:24] <bersace> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-audio-art
[11:24] <cbx33> first looks at some very rough ideas
[11:24] <cbx33> if anyone is interested, just shout
[07:05] <Viper550> Hello
[07:12] <kwwii> re
[07:14] <kwwii> just updated some color variations on the bubble background ideas on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
[07:14] <kwwii> in case anyone is interested
[09:58] <mhb> good evening :o)
[10:16] <TwinReverb> anyone using sodipodi? :D
[10:16] <kwwii> why? inkscape is much better :-)
[10:16] <TwinReverb> :( i'm just trying to learn how to use a scalable vector art program.  if there's a better one, i don't mind downloading it and trying it
[10:19] <andreasn> TwinReverb: inkscape.org
[10:19] <andreasn> TwinReverb: is was forked from sodipodi and is much better
[10:20] <TwinReverb> thanx
[10:20] <TwinReverb> why forked from sodipodi?
[10:21] <kwwii> guess the authors of inkscape wanted to freedom to change things more rapidly/in the way they wanted by forking it
[10:21] <TwinReverb> bleh
[10:22] <TwinReverb> well let me ask: the crystalsvg icons, what program was used to make those?  i'm wanting to make an icon in the same sort of style
[10:23] <andreasn> my guess is Adobe Illustrator, but you should be able to do it in Inkscape as well
[10:23] <kwwii> TwinReverb: AI was used to make them
[10:24] <kwwii> note that at that time inskscape was not half the program it is now
[10:24] <TwinReverb> adobe illustrator?
[10:24] <TwinReverb> ah
[10:32] <kwwii> yepp
[10:36] <TwinReverb> if inkscape is so good, why does it have so many dependencies?
[10:36] <TwinReverb> i'm on my 2nd set thus far (slackware-current linux)
[10:43] <kwwii> is the wiki slow as shit, or is it just me?
[10:46] <TwinReverb> well i would say it's the wiki because the hotel wireless internet also sucks, but since i don't know the URL... :D
[10:48] <kwwii> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
[10:56] <kwwii> mhb: now the newest stuff is on the wiki as well
[10:56] <kwwii> (although the wiki itself is pretty flaky atm)