[00:30]  * Hobbsee preemptively grumbles
[00:31] <rgreening> o/ Hobbsee
[00:31] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: nice BS submission
[00:31] <DaSkreech> How are you?
[00:31] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: oh, thanks :)
[00:31] <Hobbsee> i'm annoyed at the enxt incarnation of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/konversation/+bug/218958
[00:31]  * JontheEchidna was about to talk about that \o/
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> now the gnomies know how we feel
[00:32] <Hobbsee> it's not in k-d-s this time
[00:32] <Hobbsee> i know it was patched in both k-d-s and konversation before.
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, there's a debian patch for hardcoding that
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> but I thought we also patched it
[00:33] <Hobbsee> right.  Whos' been incompetent.
[00:34]  * DaSkreech raises hand
[00:35] <Hobbsee> so, it was patched once...debian dropped it, we didn't takeit
[00:35]  * JontheEchidna bets 10_debian_channel.diff is to blame
[00:35] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: it is, but we modified that afterwards.
[00:36] <Hobbsee> or edited it
[00:36] <Hobbsee> (& Renamed it, iirc)
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> could have been an improper merge
[00:37] <Hobbsee> !!!!
[00:37] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: yeah, hence the "someone is incompetent again"
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> * Merge with Debian, remaining change just the .orig md5sum,
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> ^that'd do it
[00:37] <Hobbsee> konversation (1.0.1-4ubuntu6) hardy; urgency=low
[00:37] <Hobbsee>   * Edit 10_debian_channel.diff, renamed to
[00:37] <Hobbsee>     kubuntu_05_default_channels.diff, to default to #kubuntu.
[00:37] <Hobbsee>     (LP: #218958)
[00:37] <Hobbsee>   * Add this, and previous patch, to debian/patches/series, so they actually
[00:37] <Hobbsee>     apply
[00:37] <Hobbsee>  -- Sarah Hobbs <<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(hobbsee: 2269)  [universe-contributors]  [ubuntu-dev]  [ubuntu-bugcontrol]  [ubuntumembers]  [ubuntu-core-dev]  [bugsquad] >   Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:16:47 +1000
[00:37] <Hobbsee> i did change it.  Then they broke it.
[00:37] <Hobbsee> Richard Birnie<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:38] <Hobbsee> grrrr...
[00:38] <vorian> :o
[00:38]  * JontheEchidna hides from the inevitable stick
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> oh, he ain't here
[00:39]  * JontheEchidna preemptively hides
[00:39] <Hobbsee> yeah, well, he will get the rough end of the stick, when he does turn up.
[00:39] <Hobbsee> because missing stuff like that is pretty major....
[00:39] <Hobbsee> and now it's going to need a SRU.
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> that was one of his first merges I think, looking at the date
[00:40] <rgreening> ouh. glad it wasn't.
[00:40]  * rgreening doesn't want to incur the wrath of Hobbsee
[00:41] <Hobbsee> bad choice for a first merge, apparently.  But why didn't the sponsor notice?
[00:45] <Hobbsee> wow, managed to drop how many changelog entries as well?
[00:46] <rgreening> holy smokes
[00:47]  * Hobbsee goes thru the diff, with increased displeasure.
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> I think this is something I should have noticed when I updated it for 1.1...
[00:47] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: oh, was this you?
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> I didn't do the merge
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> Arby did
[00:48] <Hobbsee> that's what I thought.
[00:48] <Hobbsee> oh, right, you did the next one.
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> but I did notice the debian channel patch, I just assumed k-d-s handled it
[00:48] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: it does (as well), but that doens't work for people like me, who run konversation on gnome, etc.
[00:49] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: besides, it's reasonable to assume that the last uploader didn't massively screw up.
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[00:49] <Hobbsee> and that ifthey did, the sponsor caught it, and fixed it
[00:51] <Hobbsee> really nasty choice for a first merge, i'd suggest...
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> well I don't know for sure if it was his first, but that seems around the time he showed up
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> but around thereabouts I'd think
[00:53] <Hobbsee> diff's 632 lines.
[00:53] <Hobbsee> a lot is cruft.
[00:53] <Hobbsee> ouch.
[00:55] <Hobbsee> oh, blah.  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16763966/konversation_1.0.1-6ubuntu1_1.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz is the diff i actually wanted.
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> isn't that the diff for my upload?
[00:56] <Hobbsee> oh, so it is.
[00:57] <Hobbsee> launchpad hasn't generated the diff for the one i wanted.
[00:59] <Hobbsee> DD4D5088.  Hmmm.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> oh *dear*.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> i found what i didn't want to find.
[01:02] <rgreening> which is what? THe suspense is killing us....
[01:03] <Hobbsee> he really did completely remove the kubuntu patch (along with (all?) our others), and added the debian channel patch.
[01:04] <rgreening> oh
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> so he basically synced it?
[01:04] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: well, that's the weird thing.
[01:04] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: he's kept a few of the changelog entries, it appears.
[01:05] <rgreening> oops huhb
[01:05] <rgreening> s/huh/huhb
[01:06] <Hobbsee> he's kept anything before the first merge from debian of it.
[01:07] <Hobbsee> as in, in changelog entries
[01:07] <Hobbsee> apart from that, looks like a sync.
[01:09]  * DaSkreech pokes Hobbsee
[01:09] <DaSkreech> Make Firefox stop being a packhorse
[01:10] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i probably should fix konversation first, as i've merged it a fwe times before.
[01:10] <DaSkreech> :-)
[01:11] <JontheEchidna> firefox deps are boing to be discussed at uds
[01:11] <Hobbsee> oh good ;)
[01:11] <rgreening> FF -> ubufox -> apturl (this is the problem package IMO) for all the gnomish deps
[01:12] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: yeah. I'm the Kubuntu rep to work with asac and fta
[01:12] <rgreening> :)
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> there is a wishlist for and adept kioslaves at bugs.kde.org
[01:12] <DaSkreech> Will Qt firefox be available for the jackrabbit?
[01:14] <jdong> ack gtk-qt really mangles some apps like Firefox
[01:15] <Hobbsee> yay, kde-based firefox!
[01:15] <jdong> the Picasso look *IS* a bit amusing for a few minutes though :)
[01:16] <JontheEchidna> gtk-qt-engine d00d fell off the face of the earth after hardy :(
[01:17] <JontheEchidna> well he did fix a crash that popped up with KDE 4.1 and he has added translations as he has recieved them
[01:18] <JontheEchidna> if only the gtk people could do something like the Qt people are doing with QGtkStyle
[01:19] <frankiJnr> hi guys i'm interested in getting involved in kubuntu.
[01:19] <frankiJnr> i finish my exams soon so im gonna have a lot of free time :)
[01:19] <DaSkreech> frankiJnr: Great here is a fire. I'll throw you in it
[01:19] <frankiJnr> is this the channel i should be in?
[01:20] <frankiJnr> hey im a bit of a pyro.
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> This might be of interest then: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu
[01:20] <frankiJnr> cool thanks
[01:22] <frankiJnr> does KubuntuArtwork involve plasma themeing?
[01:23] <frankiJnr> i notice kubuntu uses the default oxygen plasma theme is this intentional?
[01:25] <frankiJnr> i could maybe try working on something more like the blue kde look which kubuntu used to have?
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> for this release it was intentional
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> I don't know about future releases though
[01:27] <DaSkreech> frankiJnr: WElcome to submit :)
[01:27] <DaSkreech> how much plasma themeing have you done?
[01:27] <frankiJnr> none as of yet. but there seems to be some guides
[01:28] <frankiJnr> ill make some mockups first of course
[01:28] <DaSkreech> Ok
[01:28] <DaSkreech> hang out here and #plasma :)
[01:28] <frankiJnr> ok thanks
[01:29] <frankiJnr> where should i post mockups btw?
[01:32] <JontheEchidna> I think the wiki in general
[01:33] <frankiJnr> do you know of anyone else who is working on a kubuntu plasma-theme?
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> I started work on one a while back but I sorta stopped working on it
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> Oxygen Connections
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> feel free to improve on it
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> or do your own thing
[01:39] <DaSkreech> do yo own thang mon
[01:49] <frankiJnr> the oxygen theme gui theme is to far off the old kubuntu look
[01:50] <frankiJnr> but the plasma theme doesnt fit in with the kubuntu look
[01:51] <frankiJnr> sorry i meant the gui is _not_ to far off
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> that's what I aimed to make Oxygen Connections^
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> you can download it from the theme installer
[01:52] <frankiJnr> ok thanks
[01:54] <frankiJnr> the look of a distro should be unique. plasma looks like it really give us that ability.
[01:54] <frankiJnr> any got to go
[01:54] <frankiJnr> *in an austrian accent* ill be back
[01:56] <yuriy> hmm, it's not on there any more, but I think the website used to say how Kubuntu tries to be the best distribution of KDE or something like that
[01:56] <yuriy> i.e. not overly uniquely themed
[01:59] <DaSkreech> Not sure how I see how those two follow each other
[02:09] <NamShub> oxy connection is not bad at all
[02:10] <NamShub> except for the 100% opaque folder view :)
[02:18] <DaSkreech> Wheee
[02:24] <coreymon77> holy netsplits batman!
[02:24] <coreymon77> :P
[02:36]  * Hobbsee celebrates http://hobbsee.com/tmp/kubuntu.debdiff
[02:56] <Hobbsee> right.  SRU pushed, and jaunty is fixed as well.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> Arby: did you know that you can run debdiff against the old thing, and what you've newly created, to check that everything you expected to be changed has been, and nothing else?
[06:58] <Arby> Arby: yes I did. that still assumes that one can understand the output of a debdiff
[06:58] <Arby> arrgh fail
[06:59] <Arby> Hobbsee:  ^^
[06:59] <Arby> It's pretty cryptic to newbies
[06:59] <Arby> anyway I've learnt a lot since then
[07:00] <Hobbsee> Arby: yeah...i did think that was a rather *brutal* first merge.
[07:01] <Arby> it wasn't my very first but one of the earliest
[07:01] <Hobbsee> Arby: make sure you pipe it to a file, then open that in something that has syntax highlighting
[07:01] <Hobbsee> even so.  it's huge.
[07:01] <Arby> well, we live and learn. Thanks for cleaning up
[07:02] <Arby> got to go to work now
[09:06] <larsivi> hi - sorry for spamming here, but #kubuntu has yet to be able to help me with a problem
[09:08] <larsivi> Open KDE3 apps (Konversation and Basket) are not kept in the session when I restart the computer, so I have to start them again - and also basket (from repo) isn't registered with krunner
[09:08] <larsivi> Further, screen size settings are always wrong until I open screen settings dialog, at which point it click into place (without me having to do anything)
[09:09] <larsivi> kmail won't show my added custom spam icon/actions on the toolbar, they're in the right click menu though
[09:10] <larsivi> for jabber accounts in kopete, I get an error which says the probably cause is missing QCA TLS, which isn't missing afaik
[09:11] <larsivi> Ctrl+F doesn't work in konqueror
[09:12] <larsivi> In addition I'm affected by a major regression on intel graphics performance and knode memory leak (both are reported)
[09:13] <larsivi> so even before considering what I think is missing, the multitude of regressions show that this was a less than perfect release
[09:16] <Hobbsee> larsivi: well, that was a given - it was the first one with major kde changes.
[09:16] <Hobbsee> re: basket, it looks to be a kde3 app in kde4, so probably isn't registered with kde4 stuff
[09:17] <Hobbsee> ditto konversation
[09:17] <emgent> Hobbsee: heya :)
[09:17] <Hobbsee> hey emgent!
[09:17] <larsivi> Hobbsee: I understand the issue with moving to kde4, but there seems to be very few, if anyone that actually understands and can help with the issues
[09:18] <Hobbsee> larsivi: people are all learning.
[09:18] <larsivi> Hobbsee: as for basket, fair enough, I think it came from universe, but konversation is mentioned on the kubuntu front page as one of the kde3 apps left
[09:18] <Hobbsee> larsivi: i suspect that's true for the developers of kubuntu, too, who often don't directly add features to kde apps.
[09:18] <larsivi> I am able to start konvi properly from krunner though, it just doesn't stick in the session
[09:19] <Hobbsee> strange.
[10:04] <larsivi> oh - how can I find out who is responsible for a given translated string? in this case the name of keys on the keyboard used in system settings for shortcuts
[10:06] <larsivi> and when can we see Wayland in ubuntu? :)
[11:19] <Hobbsee> Riddell: um, how carefully are you actually checking sponsorship requests?
[11:20] <Riddell> just say what you think the problem is please
[11:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: well, I just fixed the "ubuntu konversation joins #debian" by default again.  The first time was from an incorrect merge, which iirc (and i havent' checked recently) was from you, and the second was from Arby, which you sponsored into the archive.  I've pushed a SRU now, but i'm starting to wonder how much else is getting missed, and what the implications on our userbase are.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> I know you're terribly busy, but...
[11:23] <Riddell> that's only arguably a bug and it really doesn't quality as a high-impact bug required by SRUs
[11:25] <Hobbsee> perhaps not.  Except that the #debian people will probably eat the (k)ubuntu people, when they ask for ubuntu help in there.  Pitti accepted it anyway, so that part's effectively done.  My concern is more the fact that these relatively simple errors are not being picked up, when sponsoring is being done.
[11:26] <Hobbsee> Do you need more core developers to sponsor kubuntu stuff, and fix the problem that way, or?
[11:32] <Riddell> ?  we always need more core devs, seems to me this pet bug is solved now so time to move onto other people's pet bugs
[11:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: speaking of which, did we resolve that kdeedu issue?
[11:35]  * Hobbsee hopes this is an isolated pet bug, then, and won't mention the kde4libs 4.1.1 tarball issue
[11:37]  * Riddell pats Hobbsee on the head and goes back to the other 10,000 bugs we have
[11:37] <Hobbsee> Riddell: :) good luck with them.
[11:50]  * Hobbsee prods a few bugs in non-kubuntu directions, helping triage them
[11:51] <larsivi> I posted one yesterday that _could_ be kdepim ;)
[11:52] <larsivi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/293081
[11:53] <Hobbsee> 35 --> 32.  \o/
[11:54] <Hobbsee> larsivi: that should probably be reported at bugs.kde.org (then you can link it).  I doubt any kubuntu people actually touch knode.
[12:07] <larsivi> Hobbsee: done
[12:08] <Hobbsee> larsivi: cool :)  Did you link it?
[12:08] <larsivi> yes
[12:09] <Hobbsee> \o/
[12:29] <larsivi> ok, found a workaround for hte kopete qca-tls issue, apparently it is reported
[12:32] <larsivi> Ctrl+F in konqueror is very strange, using some other combo not involving Ctrl works, but not something _with_ Ctrl - seems to only apply to search since Ctrl+A and others work
[12:41] <JontheEchidna> kde rev 879971
[12:45] <jussi01> Does anyone know how to request a read receipt in kmail?
[12:46] <jussi01> ahh, carap... wrong place. ill ask in #kubuntu sorry.
[12:47] <apachelogger_> jussi01: somewhere in the options I'd say
[12:48] <apachelogger_> Riddell: ping
[12:48] <jussi01> apachelogger: the only thing it _might_ be is "request disposition notification" which I have no idea what they are talking about...
[12:49] <JontheEchidna> Hobbsee: thx for the help with the beasties
[12:49] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: you're welcome :)
[12:49] <larsivi> heh - kmail's toolbar followed suit after a restart - at least been able to get rid of many of my intrepid issues today
[12:50] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna, ScottK: did asac come up with a better idea than working around the problem?
[12:50] <apachelogger_> can't access my mail right now
[12:51] <Riddell> hola apachelogger_
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> he said something about changing something app-install-data to handle recommends
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-bugs/2008-November/date.html
[12:51] <apachelogger_> yo Riddell, do we need an SRU bug for 4.1.3?
[12:52] <Riddell> apachelogger_: I don't think so, I told slandasek we'd upload this evening unless he objected
[12:53] <apachelogger_> ok
[12:53] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: sounds promising, at least now there is movement to address the actual issue ;-)
[12:53] <apachelogger_> now only ubufox needs to be demoted to suggests and all is good again
[12:55] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: sweet amarok commit
[12:58] <Riddell> apachelogger_: what happened with kdeedu?
[13:00] <apachelogger_> Riddell: wrt the issue annma was complaining about?
[13:01] <rgreening> good morning peeps :)
[13:02] <JontheEchidna> nobody can take away my right to shoot wolves from helicopters
[13:03] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: rofl!!
[13:03] <JontheEchidna> SNL last night was great
[13:04] <apachelogger_> je ne comprends pas
[13:05] <JontheEchidna> oh crap, I have an openweek session to do tomorrow
[13:05] <jjesse> doh
[13:05] <jjesse> at least you remembered now and not tomorrow :)
[13:05] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: did u publish tha amarok2b3 to k-m-kde4?
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger_: yus, and handled the website's release story
[13:06] <apachelogger_> indeedish
[13:06] <apachelogger_> waste of space
[13:06] <apachelogger_> that shot must be from you :P
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> the angle is messed up so it looks... uneven
[13:07] <apachelogger_> and it wastes space
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> but I had enough trouble with getting the picture to show up in the first place
[13:07] <apachelogger_> anyway
[13:07] <apachelogger_> typo
[13:07] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: "To update to Amarok 2 beta 2, please follow these instructions:"
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> doh
[13:11] <apachelogger_> \o/
[13:11] <apachelogger_> https://edge.launchpad.net/~we-love-harald
[13:11] <apachelogger_> I have 4 groupies now
[13:11] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Nothing that's doable for Intrepid.  He (asac) wants a session at UDS to figure a better plan for Jaunty.
[13:11]  * apachelogger_ thinks Xand3r should lock the group and only accept one new groupe with every new major KDE release
[13:12] <ScottK> apachelogger_: rgreening volunteered to work on that one at UDS.
[13:12] <apachelogger_> ScottK: sounds good
[13:12] <ScottK> apachelogger_: One related point is that someone needs to talk to mvo about making apturl not depend on synaptic, but to work with adept too.
[13:13] <apachelogger_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/apturl/+bug/293533
[13:13] <ScottK> Yeah.  I think talk to him about it and not just do a bug.
[13:15] <apachelogger_> ScottK: well, not much to talk about IMO ; -)
[13:15] <ScottK> Interesting that it was asac that filed it.
[13:16] <ScottK> I think that's a fall out from our discussion yesterday.
[13:17] <apachelogger_> ScottK: yes, he's trying to resolve the issue now
[13:18] <Riddell> apachelogger_: yes, the issue annma was complaining about
[13:18] <rgreening> ScottK: that's a similar patch to what I already sent to mvo for apt
[13:18] <apachelogger_> Riddell: khangman depends on kanagram in the 4.1.3 packaging
[13:18] <apachelogger_> Riddell: there's no other way to resolve this without introducing a new package
[13:19] <apachelogger_> jaunty will get kdeedu-kvtml-data though
[13:19] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Aren't we already introducing a new package to fix the circular build-dep?
[13:19] <apachelogger_> ScottK: we didn't decide that yet, did we?
[13:20] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I thought we did?
[13:20] <ScottK> apachelogger_: So how do we solve that in the current 4.1.3 packaging?
[13:20] <apachelogger_> I honestly don't remember
[13:20] <apachelogger_> ScottK: we don't
[13:20] <apachelogger_> ScottK: rgreening wanted to talk to sime again
[13:21] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  IIRC we're supposed to upload tomorrow ...
[13:21] <ScottK> So not a lot of chit chat time.
[13:25] <rgreening> I just sent a ping/followup to Sime on kde-bindings
[13:25] <rgreening> As well as to mvo for the apt/SRU fix I sent
[13:26] <ScottK> Great.
[13:26] <rgreening> I can patch apturl similar to what I have done for apt. Infact the script I wrote can be used for both I believe.
[13:27] <rgreening> or at least tweaked. It's pretty simple and extendable
[13:32] <larsivi__> so, the the translation for "Space" (as in the space bar) is all wrong in Kubuntu (it is translated into the norwegian word for outer space), whereas it is correct in KDE - the norwegian translation team won't touch it, as launchpad for translations is generally considered to be a product from hell
[13:33] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ We really need to figure out how to make translations actually work for us.
[13:33] <larsivi__> I recommend that you disable launchpad translations for KDE (or most things really), it would save you a lot of hard feelings, and may even gain you a few users
[13:33] <larsivi__> ScottK: ^
[13:34] <ScottK> larsivi__: You won't get any argument from me.
[13:34] <ScottK> Currently LP seems to actively make things worse.
[13:34] <Tonio_> hi there
[13:34] <ScottK> Heya Tonio_.
[13:35] <larsivi__> the no-nn translation coordinators actively recommend against using ubuntu/kubuntu for this reason only
[13:37] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: I have they feeling no-nn is not alone on this
[13:37]  * apachelogger_ finds it very understandable as well
[13:37] <larsivi__> apachelogger_: yes, I think I've seen it mentioned on planetkde
[13:38]  * Tonio_ works on a unattended-upgrades fork for shutdown upgrading
[13:38] <smarter> the trouble is, I don't think we can disable lp translations easily
[13:38] <Tonio_> if people are interested in testing.... :)
[13:39] <apachelogger_> smarter: we can override it in intrepid by manually uploading the packages
[13:39] <apachelogger_> in jaunty we can do a lot more though ;-)
[13:39] <smarter> that would be great, except for the few distros tools which are translated via launchpad
[13:39] <larsivi__> smarter: although the KDE translators are the bigger group of complainers, the problems probably doesn't affect that only?
[13:40]  * apachelogger_ would rather see the launchpad stuff fixed and get a general permission to poke the rosetta team in the eye whenever another issue appears
[13:40] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: KDE is affected the most
[13:40] <smarter> larsivi_: I heard Evolution had some issues too, but that's all
[13:40] <smarter> if there was really an issue with gnome et all, it would have been fixed
[13:40] <apachelogger_> mainly because we had to reimport >50% of all strings
[13:41] <larsivi__> I believe Rosetta also is considered a horrible tool for translations, at least compared to lokalize and friends
[13:41] <smarter> it is
[13:41] <apachelogger_> some rough edges it got
[13:41] <smarter> no way to coordinate effort and to have something consistent
[13:41]  * apachelogger_ finds the QA much more disturbing though
[13:42] <smarter> yesterday I found a typo in Adept, which is translated in LP
[13:43] <smarter> (in the French translation)
[13:43] <apachelogger_> the main toolbar of kmail got a typo in the german translation
[13:43] <apachelogger_> in-your-face-typo(tm)
[13:45] <Riddell> ScottK: LP translations have been unacceptably bad this release, it's on my todo list for today to hassle them about the strings which are still missing
[13:46] <ScottK> Riddell: That's good and needs doing, but it seems the process is pretty fundamentally broken.
[13:47] <apachelogger_> Tonio_: what is a shutdown upgrade?
[13:51] <Riddell> ScottK: I'd say it was a series of serious bugs and problems rather than it being fundamentally broken, although I agree the end result does look fundamentally broken
[13:52] <larsivi__> Riddell: the complaints from the no-nn team aren't new, I heard the same at least as early as last year
[13:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Additionally there is a wide spread view that Rosetta is a nightmare for translators.
[13:53]  * ScottK recalls reading a blog posting recently saying a presentation on the process scared contributors off.
[13:53] <apachelogger_> isn't the ease of use one of the pro-rosetta arguments? Oo
[13:55] <Riddell> it depends if you know how to use svn and kbabel (or text edit .po files) if you do that's easier but only for apps in KDE SVN
[13:55] <ScottK> Riddell, apachelogger_: http://www.glatzor.de/blog/blog-details/select_category/1/article/ubuntu-l10n-de-talks/?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=4&cHash=1f79dd20ad
[13:55] <Riddell> if you don't, web interface is easier
[13:56] <apachelogger_> Riddell: a regular translator should not have to use svn at all
[13:56] <apachelogger_> meaning they should not commit directly anyway
[13:58] <apachelogger_> ScottK, Riddell: maybe we should create a list of things that have to be improved?
[13:58] <larsivi__> lokalize/kbabel has svn support
[13:58] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I think we should pick a community member who's going to UDS to become the expert and beat the drums in person.
[13:58] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: you still would have to know how to configure it and things
[13:59] <apachelogger_> ScottK: I vote for you
[13:59] <jjesse> is ScottK going to UDS
[13:59] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I'm not going.
[13:59] <ScottK> jjesse: No
[13:59] <apachelogger_> oh my
[13:59] <apachelogger_> jjesse: you are aren't you?
[13:59] <jjesse> yes i am
[13:59]  * apachelogger_ votes for jjesse
[13:59] <jjesse> so is rgreening and nixternal
[14:00] <ScottK> rgreening already volunteered to be our KDE/Firefox expert.
[14:00] <apachelogger_> rgreening is taking care of the firefox issues
[14:00]  * ScottK high fives apachelogger_.
[14:00] <apachelogger_> nixternal is the docs dood
[14:00] <jjesse> so i am
[14:00] <apachelogger_> jjesse: exactly
[14:00] <apachelogger_> jjesse: just that you are not as busy with rpm :P
[14:00] <larsivi__> Riddell: only thing potentially difficult about using kbabel/lokalize is the configuration - you would need a rather exceptional webapp to be able to beat translating with it
[14:00] <jjesse> :)
[14:01] <apachelogger_> that is why I think you should become rosetta expert
[14:01] <apachelogger_> unless you don't want to
[14:01] <larsivi__> Riddell: so the easy solution would be to make it easy to configure those tools
[14:01] <jjesse> i would prefer to not
[14:01] <jjesse> i going to beating the drum of kubuntu training with the trainin people there
[14:01] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I think it'd be more credible if the issue were driven by someone who isn't a native English speaker.
[14:02] <apachelogger_> who is going to UDS and not native?
[14:02] <Riddell> I don't think the rosetta developers will be at UDS
[14:02] <Riddell> we could probably do a phone call from there though
[14:02] <apachelogger_> *nod*
[14:02] <smarter> stupid connection, and stupid quassel which takes 20 minutes to see that I'm deconnect and to reconnect :/
[14:03] <apachelogger_> ScottK: how about inviting someone from KDE l10n?
[14:03] <smarter> *deconnected
[14:03] <apachelogger_> smarter: get a server
[14:03] <smarter> apachelogger: give me one :p
[14:04] <apachelogger_> ScottK: considering they use lokalize (which is awesome) it might be easier to find the shortcomings of rosetta
[14:04] <apachelogger_> smarter: join the ubuntu server team and ask canonical for one :P
[14:05] <ScottK> Riddell: My view is that (at least in theory) (K)Ubuntu is a customer of LP/Rosetta and so if a consensus can form at UDS about what Rosetta needs to do better, that's useful.
[14:06] <ScottK> At a minimum I'd suggest "Don't output translations worse than what we get from upstream" as a start.
[14:07] <Riddell> ScottK: the tricky part is working out just why that happens
[14:08] <apachelogger_> improve QA, improve team communication, improve inter-team communication, get faster machines to get strings imported faster, don't allow changing of upstream imported strings without uberstrong QA, don't prefer LP translations over upstream translations
[14:08] <larsivi__> I will try to get a statement from the nn team for you
[14:08] <Riddell> the last two are different attitudes to the same thing
[14:09] <apachelogger_> Riddell: there might be times when we actually need to change upstream strings
[14:09] <apachelogger_> like when upstream contains a typo
[14:09] <Riddell> apachelogger_: right, so your last one is wrong
[14:09] <Riddell> the rest is all good
[14:09] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I mean when importing
[14:10] <apachelogger_> the LP change should last as long as the string didn't get changed upstream
[14:10]  * smarter would add "send all the strings changed upstream"
[14:10] <claydoh> can we nuke kubuntu-users list and start over, pretty please?
[14:10] <apachelogger_> +1 on send upstream
[14:10] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: I would like to hear from every team actually
[14:10] <smarter> (they would laugh at us if we did that with the current states of thing :P)
[14:11] <larsivi__> Riddell: I believe LP strings being preferred is considered one of the main problems
[14:11] <apachelogger_> claydoh: how so?
[14:11] <Riddell> larsivi__: yes I agree
[14:11] <Riddell> I was just nit-picking apachelogger_'s list, really it's all good :)
[14:11] <larsivi__> ok :)
[14:12] <jjesse> claydoh: +1 from me on nuking that list :)
[14:12] <claydoh> apachelogger_: sorry just frustrated
[14:12] <claydoh> I asked for some nasty bickering and flame-fanning to end, and got told off
[14:12] <jjesse> lool
[14:13] <jjesse> i love the i hate dolphin i love konqueror posts
[14:13] <claydoh> its basically a bitch session for about 5-6 people
[14:13] <claydoh> with little or no user support
[14:13] <claydoh> jjesse: now krusader is in there
[14:13] <jjesse> awesome
[14:13] <Riddell> jjesse: massochist :)
[14:14] <apachelogger_> claydoh: get these people banned?
[14:14] <claydoh> now wouldn't that bring on the fire
[14:14] <claydoh> I don't know
[14:14] <Riddell> I have blocked threads in the past
[14:15] <apachelogger_> IMHO it makes very much sense to do that
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> dolphin -> my big fat greek wedding
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> lulz
[14:16] <claydoh> apachelogger_: banning would get the post count down to about 5-6 a day :)
[14:17] <apachelogger_> claydoh: that is more readable and more supportable, isn't it? ;-)
[14:17] <claydoh> apachelogger_: yup :)
[14:18] <smarter> already ~250 messages for November, this is frightening
[14:18]  * ScottK loves Konqueror
[14:18] <claydoh> smarter: and if you actually read it, n ot much rrally going on
[14:18] <apachelogger_> Riddell, claydoh: maybe we should add it to the meeting agenda?
[14:18] <Riddell> apachelogger_: which?
[14:18] <apachelogger_> I imagine more people would use the list if it wasn't filled with crap
[14:19] <Riddell> oh -users, can do
[14:19] <claydoh> I agree, but how to get rid of the crap without causing negative backlash
[14:19] <ScottK> Riddell: I agree it's tricky, but it needs to be done.  Translations are killing us and given providing (K)Ubuntu is each person's own language is a core Ubuntu value, translations is an area we should just totally rock in.
[14:19]  * ScottK goes off to vote.
[14:20] <jjesse> ScottK: good luck my line was 2 hours
[14:21] <apachelogger_> claydoh: if the pople who contribute to the current disucssion don't understand that the topics are pointless and prevent sensible support then I really don't care at all
[14:21] <jjesse> the frustrating part is that everyone who complains about
[14:21] <apachelogger_> the can get a launchpad team and mailing list kubuntu-endless-discussion
[14:21] <jjesse> decisions doesnt take part of them inthe -devel mailing list
[14:23] <apachelogger_> http://archives.free.net.ph/list/kubuntu-users.en.html
[14:23] <apachelogger_> 90 posts in the konqueror vs. dolphin thread
[14:23] <claydoh> jjesse: I have suggested so, and not one of the big mouths ever did
[14:23] <seele> apachelogger_: there is a meeting?
[14:23] <apachelogger_> seele: not yet scheduled
[14:23] <claydoh> apachelogger_: and most a flame fest at the beginning
[14:23] <jjesse> claydoh: i did once as well and got a very nasty response
[14:24] <apachelogger_> seele: only have bzr and membership for arby on the agenda
[14:24] <apachelogger_> though I think the bzr discussion probably is enought to get an own meeting
[14:24] <seele> apachelogger_: will it be our last meeting before UDS or will we have another?
[14:24] <seele> there are Jaunty topics to talk about
[14:25] <apachelogger_> should be added to the agenda then ;-)
[14:25] <apachelogger_> seele: when is UDS?
[14:25] <Riddell> a month away yet
[14:26] <apachelogger_> should be enough time for 2 meetings I guess
[14:26] <seele> apachelogger_: beginning of december
[14:27] <Riddell> I'm away from 22nd Nov
[14:27] <apachelogger_> ok, one it is
[14:27] <claydoh> on a good note, I should get my kubuntu bumper sticker today :)
[14:27] <apachelogger_> also, I think we should do a meeting once everyone is back from UDS
[14:27] <Riddell> claydoh: where's that from?
[14:27] <claydoh> cafe press
[14:27] <claydoh> it was quickest
[14:28]  * apachelogger_ has a helix bumper sticker :P
[14:29] <claydoh> I am using this laptop at a flyball tourney to keep scores, etc
[14:29] <claydoh> so I figure i'd advertise
[14:29] <claydoh> tho I have to run the access database thingy in virtualbox :(
[14:30] <apachelogger_> vbox is Qt and floss, nothing bad about it ;-)
[14:30] <claydoh> but win2k sux
[14:30] <claydoh>  but I do actually have a license for it
[14:31] <jdong> would you guy object to target KTorrent 3.1.4 at intrepid-updates?
[14:31] <jdong> it's a "bugfix release", no UI changes, no rdepends
[14:31] <jdong> at least from what I can tell
[14:31] <jdong> tracking upstream regressions from ktorrent is such a pain
[14:32] <apachelogger_> jdong: I considered this an option
[14:32] <jdong> apachelogger_: I think it's an appropriate option
[14:33] <apachelogger_> plus KTorrent upstream does usually not cause further issues in bufix release
[14:33] <apachelogger_> unlike amarok :P
[14:33] <jdong> right
[14:34] <apachelogger_> jdong: I suggest mailing kubuntu-devel
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> doing so would also fix bug 116905
[14:34] <apachelogger_> that reminds me
[14:34] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: did you file a bug report at freedesktop.org yet?
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> <.<
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> >.>
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> ^_^
[14:34]  * JontheEchidna runs
[14:34] <apachelogger_> oh dear
[14:35] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: do you have time to do that now?
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> I'll do it right now
[14:35] <apachelogger_> ok, thanx
[14:35]  * apachelogger_ hands JontheEchidna and jdong each a cookie and a glass of milk
[14:36] <seele> apachelogger_: the meeting will have to be in the next week or so before the holiday starts
[14:39] <apachelogger_> seele: I will setup a doodle survey today or tomorrow, any wishes about the time? ;-)
[14:41] <seele> no.. whenever
[14:42] <seele> eek, X doesn't like using an HD TV.  The fonts look like they are set to 6pt
[14:42] <smarter> dpi problem
[14:46] <ScottK> jjesse: No line. \o/
[14:46] <seele> huh.. makes installing kubuntu kindof hard
[14:47] <apachelogger_> KDE needs new release scripts
[14:47] <apachelogger_> mine is so much more reliable :P
[14:48] <larsivi> ScottK: you have separate lines for the two parties and you voted republican? ;P
[14:49] <ScottK> larsivi: No.  Only one line.
[14:49] <ScottK> Since I work from home I could hit that magic quiet spot between people who vote before they go to work and the ones that do it on their lunch break.
[14:49] <larsivi> heh - election day is national day off here
[14:50] <larsivi> (for those who can)
[14:50] <ScottK> Here they just close the schools since those are generally used as polling places.
[14:50] <ScottK> So I have to work, but have all the kids here too.
[14:51] <ScottK> Riddell: I have to correct what I said yesterday.  The ballot just had the Presidential candidate I was voting for, not the electors.  I must have been thinking of the primary election ballot where you vote for delegates to the party convention that are committed to a particular candidate.
[14:51] <apachelogger_> here election day is sunday, on sunday only very very very limited work permissions are issued, so essentially one would assume every austrian would have time to give his/her vote ;-)
[14:52] <nixternal> apachelogger_: bah you and RPMs dude! :)
[14:52] <nixternal> soon it will be .debs here baby!!!
[14:52] <nixternal> after UDS
[14:52] <apachelogger_> oh noes
[14:52] <apachelogger_> <-- pretty good RPM haxx0r
[14:53] <nixternal> come work for me!
[14:53] <nixternal> I am looking for an RPM hax0r and a hardware dude
[14:54] <apachelogger_> first I have to finish a finance analysis application
[14:54] <Riddell> ScottK: that sounds like the electoral college people are candidate supporters picked from the party which solves another minor mystery
[14:54] <apachelogger_> getting that to pull data from the accounting software is going to be fun
[14:54]  * apachelogger_ doesn't even know what database that software uses
[14:54] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.
[14:54] <nixternal> apachelogger_: finance analysis is easy...I did that stuff my undergrad years...I am past that in my quest for my MBA now
[14:55]  * nixternal is going to the Obama rally tonight!!!
[14:55] <bddebian> Eeks
[14:55] <ScottK> nixternal: Good luck.  I hope you get what you're after.
[14:55] <bddebian> apachelogger_: Which package?
[14:55] <ScottK> bddebian: He's going to try and meet girls.
[14:55] <bddebian> heh
[14:55] <nixternal> ScottK: it is a part of history win or lose, and in any situation, I can say I was there :)
[14:56] <apachelogger_> nixternal: well, the use case is focused on insolvency preventation ... a lot of special crap to take care of
[14:56]  * nixternal hopes for the second, but it will be tough
[14:56] <apachelogger_> but otherwise good exercise
[14:56] <nixternal> hahaha, insolvency prevention sucks!
[14:56] <apachelogger_> bddebian: package?
[14:56] <Riddell> nixternal: that's going to be a really bad party if he loses :)
[14:56] <apachelogger_> nixternal: insolvency sucks :P
[14:56] <nixternal> just let the company go under, and have the government bail you out...that is how you do insolvency prevention in the US :P
[14:56] <bddebian> apachelogger_: Which accounting software?
[14:56] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, if he loses, I shall leave early to avoid any potential rioting
[14:57] <ScottK> nixternal: Only if you're a big company that has $$$ for campaign contributions.
[14:57] <bddebian> heh
[14:57] <nixternal> I contributed money to a campaign
[14:57] <apachelogger_> bddebian: http://www.bmd.at/
[14:57]  * nixternal is waiting for ever on the AspectJ updates in Eclipse
[14:58] <apachelogger_> nixternal: if you do that willingly you will pretty much end up in jail :P
[14:58] <nixternal> apachelogger_: not in the US :P
[14:59] <apachelogger_> nixternal: plus the austrian government would only pay primary claims ... i.e. basically only salary
[15:00] <apachelogger_> in fact it's not even the government, it's a special fund controlled by the business administration
[15:01] <bddebian> apachelogger_: Oh, can't help you there, no sprechen ze deutch (I'm sure I butchered the hell out of that spelling) :)
[15:02] <apachelogger_> could have been worse :P
[15:02] <Riddell> apachelogger_: parties can't be privately funded?
[15:04] <Riddell> nixternal: are you just going to troll at this ralley?  I can't help but suspect you're going to take a large banner saying "socialist" on it :)
[15:04] <jjesse> lol i bet
[15:04] <jjesse> he's going with his mccain sign
[15:04] <apachelogger_> sure, private as in private, a company would actually have to pay tax for the funding
[15:04] <Riddell> apachelogger_: what would nixternal end up in jail for?
[15:05] <jjesse> that would be super funny though if mccain somehow won after the big party obama has planned
[15:05] <Riddell> jjesse: you think mccain doesn't also have a big party planned?
[15:05] <apachelogger_> Riddell: letting a company go down the drain willingly
[15:05] <apachelogger_> assuming he is in the board of course
[15:05] <jjesse> Riddell: but how much money did it cost him?  i've read the obama party is costing the city of chicago 2 million dollars at least
[15:06] <apachelogger_> Riddell: btw, do you really think mccain could do fancy partying... considering his age and all ;-)
[15:07] <ScottK> apachelogger_: If you've read about his younger days, he's clearly capable of fancy partying.
[15:07] <jjesse> ok i'm done talking politics today :)
[15:07] <Riddell> jjesse: oh but there's the Glenrothese by-election on Thursday, everyone will be watching that!
[15:08] <apachelogger_> ScottK: well, in his younger days maybe :P
[15:08] <apachelogger_> that said, we still didn't do an IRC release party
[15:09] <Riddell> DJ Harald didn't organise one for us :)
[15:10] <jjesse> Riddell: glenrothese by-election?  is that an election for local people in glenrothese?
[15:11] <Riddell> jjesse: aye, their MP died, so now the nationalists are going to try and double their vote and throw out Labour
[15:12] <jjesse> Riddell: interesting is labour the "conservative" party or is that nationalist??
[15:12] <Riddell> the conservative party are the conservative party, they don't really exist in Scotland
[15:13] <jjesse> ah i know next to nothing about scotland politics
[15:13] <Riddell> labour are the UK government and the nationalists are the Scottish government, so it's the first case of a battle between two governments
[15:13] <jjesse> ah i understand now
[15:13] <jjesse> i'll vote nationalist then :)
[15:14] <Riddell> win for independence! :)
[15:18] <jjesse> the dow is up early this morning
[15:20] <Riddell> jdong: your kmix patch looks good, I'll get that included in the 4.1.3 update
[15:20] <apachelogger_> Riddell: it already is
[15:21] <Riddell> apachelogger_: not according to what I downloaded from batcave
[15:21] <jdong> Riddell: very awesome :)
[15:21] <apachelogger_> Riddell: maybe I didn't upload the changes yet
[15:22] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I also need to ensure the tarballs are up-to-date
[15:22] <Riddell> apachelogger_: kdegraphics has changed
[15:22] <jdong> Riddell: while I have you here, do you know why Qt4 can't capture the XF86MonBrightness{Up,Down} key events? :)
[15:23] <Riddell> jdong: I think there a place in Qt that defines the keys, and if they're not defined it won't see them
[15:23] <Riddell> which sucks
[15:23] <jdong> Riddell: yeah :( they seem to be somewhat standardized brightness switching keys
[15:23] <jdong> and our k-d-s xmodmap hack breaks those keys in GNOME
[15:23] <jdong> Riddell: would it break anything in Qt if for the next release cycle we add those keysyms?
[15:25] <Riddell> jdong: shouldn't do if we patch it carefully enough
[15:27] <jdong> Riddell: okay; I think that would be good to have for Kubuntu laptop users; better than the Launch4/Launch5 hackery that we do currently :)
[15:27] <Riddell> yep
[15:28] <jdong> oh yeah, guidance doesn't pad minutes :)
[15:28] <jdong> i.e. 3: 5h remaining
[15:30] <ScottK> jdong: Don't sweat Guidance for Jaunty.  We've already planned it's demise.  The only real question is "Exile to Universe" or "Kill it dead, dead, dead."
[15:30] <jdong> ScottK: cool :)
[15:31] <jdong> ScottK: do we want a one-liner patch to correctly pad minutes?
[15:32] <ScottK> jdong: I'd say it's not SRU material, but we should hang on to it if we're doing an SRU for some other reason.
[15:32] <jdong> ok
[15:33] <jdong> ScottK: is KDE somehow inhibiting DPMS? my screen(s) don't go to sleep despite xset q showing correct DPMS timeouts
[15:35] <ScottK> Dunno.
[15:35]  * ScottK looks around for someone who knows ...
[15:36] <Riddell> not that I know of
[15:36] <apachelogger_> systemsettings -> display -> power control maybe?
[15:36] <jdong> apachelogger_: I have em set
[15:37] <jdong> and I can confirm they are written to xset dpms
[15:37] <jdong> and I can confirm that xset dpms force {off, standby} put the display to sleep
[15:37] <jdong> but I can't confirm that leaving the computer alone for 10 minutes results in a sleeping monitor
[15:37] <apachelogger_> maybe guidance-power-manager interferes
[15:38] <jdong> oh there we go
[15:38] <apachelogger_> that systemsettings module and g-p-m are the only things messing with that kind of stuff
[15:38] <jdong> it wakes right bac up
[15:38] <jdong> killing guidance fixes it
[15:39] <apachelogger_> \o/
[15:39] <apachelogger_> jdong: install powerdevil and use the battery plasmoid
[15:39] <jdong> the screen just flickers off and on with guidance running
[15:39] <apachelogger_> much more reliable than guidance
[15:39] <ScottK> jdong: That'd be SRU worthy.
[15:40] <ScottK> apachelogger_: If you're running powerdevil, do you have suspend/hibernate U/I?
[15:40] <apachelogger_> ScottK: kickoff
[15:41] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  I tried it and couldn't find it.  I guess I'll have to look again.
[15:41] <apachelogger_> ScottK: maybe HAL doesn't detect the capabilities properly
[15:41] <apachelogger_> usually you would get the options in the leave tab
[15:42] <apachelogger_> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot184.png
[15:42] <ScottK> Maybe I didn't kill off Guidance enough.
[15:42] <apachelogger_> ScottK: that feature is unrelated to either of them
[15:42] <apachelogger_> it's implemented in kickoff directly
[15:42] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  I'm using the classic kicker and didn't see it.  I'll try again.
[15:43] <jdong> I think it's probably the lid closed stufff
[15:43] <apachelogger_> ScottK: quite possible that you can't invoke it from the classic menu
[15:44] <ScottK> apachelogger_: That'd be a problem then.
[15:44] <apachelogger_> yeah
[15:45] <apachelogger_> I guess one could write a simple plasmoid though, should just be a matter of invoking the hibernation in powerdevil
[15:46]  * apachelogger_ better gets going, or he'll miss the train
[15:50] <jdong> hmm it's not actually guidance :(
[15:50] <ScottK> apachelogger_: What I see is http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/
[16:11] <vorian> jdong: you and that darn highway patrol
[16:12] <jdong> :)
[16:12] <jdong> I have a new setup in the savings account for when I go back home :)
[16:12] <vorian> haha
[16:12] <jdong> and I'm going to test it out in your ticket pit
[16:12] <vorian> good luck
[16:13] <jdong> :)
[16:13] <vorian> you could just apply for a bailout
[16:13] <vorian> 50 for the tiket, on 1.2 million for stress
[16:16] <Riddell> seele: desktop meetings seem to have moved to 16:00UTC in #ubuntu-desktop if you care
[16:18] <Riddell> doods, who was looking into bug 290695 ?
[16:20] <Riddell> "Why do we call Backports 'Unsupported Updates' in Adept?"  ScottK: that's software-properties
[16:21] <Riddell> seems like a fair description, although confusing for people who are looking for "backports"
[16:28] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Well since all the online docs talk about Backports, that's what we tell users when we discuss it with them, and that's what it's called in sources.list, I think it's a confusing situation.
[16:29] <Riddell> poke glatzor
[16:29] <ScottK> OK.
[16:29] <ScottK> --> TODO
[16:48] <seele> Riddell: ah, i wrote down the new time but i didnt know the channel changed
[16:49] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do you know if anyone looked into bug 290695 ?
[16:49] <seele> i gues it's over now
[16:49] <Riddell> yep
[16:49] <seele> stupid daylight time savings
[16:49] <seele> didnt matter, i was out waiting in lines
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I took a quick look but I didn't find a way to fix it
[16:50] <Riddell> seele: voting?
[16:51] <seele> Riddell: yep
[16:51] <seele> wait wasnt too bad, about an hour
[16:52] <Riddell> seele: who did you vote for?
[16:52] <seele> Riddell: Obama of course!
[16:54] <Riddell> seele: well, we seem to have a surprisingly mccained channel here
[16:55] <jjesse> need to go vote after i hang up from this support call
[16:55] <Riddell> personally I wouldn't vote for anyone named after a type of microwave chips but I guess that's cultural :)
[16:55] <Riddell> jjesse: you IRC during support calls?
[16:56] <jjesse> all the time
[16:56] <jjesse> i IRC while i wait for support to take me off hold
[16:56] <jjesse> i dont answer support calls i call support myself
[16:57] <seele> microwave chips?
[16:57] <seele> Riddell: ew, potatoes in the microwave are gross
[17:01] <smarter> Riddell: haha :)
[17:02] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: btw, catching the kdelibs tarball issue would have required an uberprecise review before sponsoring
[17:03] <apachelogger> if it weren't for the ABI breakage we probably wouldn't have noticed it all that quick
[17:04] <smarter> a diff is not so hard to do, is it? :P
[17:06] <Riddell> seele: would you vote for these?  http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=mccain+micro+chips :)
[17:06] <apachelogger> always wanted to intimidate smater :D
[17:06] <apachelogger> smarter: you as MOTU, do you alaways run diffs against the tarballs?
[17:07] <smarter> nop, but your batscripts do that ;)
[17:07] <apachelogger> now, they didn't back then
[17:09] <seele> guns and furry animals?
[17:09]  * seele gives Riddell a strange look
[17:32] <Riddell> jdong: ok to put 4.1.3 into -backports?
[17:33] <Riddell> nixternal: hmm, my login to fridge seems to have disappeared
[17:33] <Riddell> nixternal: blizzz had a story, fancy tidying it up and publishing on fridge for him?
[17:34] <blizzz> that would be great indeed :)
[17:40] <Riddell> blizzz: is there a page which explains this?
[17:40] <jdong> Riddell: no objections from me :) yay KDE4!
[17:42] <blizzz> Riddell: not really, it is a translation of our german announcement which is the same concerning the content
[17:42] <blizzz> however, you can always ask me
[17:43] <blizzz> should be the same as here http://www.kubuntu-de.org/english/limber-up-the-wiki-for-kubuntu-8-10-intrepid-ibex-and-kde-4
[17:44] <nixternal> I won't be able to do the Fridge stuff until tomorrow at the earliest
[17:44] <nixternal> Riddell: ^^
[17:44] <nixternal> at work now and then Obama rally later
[17:45] <Riddell> ack
[17:45] <blizzz> nixternal: tomorrow is fine
[17:55] <seele> nixternal: chago is going to be rocking tonight!
[17:55]  * seele does the obama dance
[17:56] <seele> Gobama! Gobama!
[17:56] <nixternal> seele: that it is
[17:56] <nixternal> and I will be partying wtih them, though I could care less who wins
[18:08] <apachelogger> jdong: btw, how much is becoming backporter going to cost?
[18:08] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdeptHowto needs an update
[18:09]  * apachelogger pokes claydoh
[18:13]  * claydoh pokes a back with his win2k
[18:13] <jdong> apachelogger: not much at all :)
[18:13] <jdong> apachelogger: you want to be one? :)
[18:14] <apachelogger> jdong: yes :)
[18:14] <apachelogger> claydoh: wanna update the adept how to?
[18:15]  * Riddell out for an hour or three
[18:15] <jdong> apachelogger: we should talk after I finish eating, but I think you'd be great for the team :)
[18:15] <claydoh> um sure, oce I re enter all this data that ms access didn't save :(
[18:15] <rgreening> ScottK: you want to help me with something, seeing you have an in in the server realm...
[18:16] <apachelogger> \o/
[18:16] <claydoh> gotta quick url apachelogger ?
[18:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: above my poke
[18:17] <apachelogger> claydoh: ^
[18:17] <rgreening> ScottK: I have a requirement for tacacs+ server not in the repos. I'll prob package it myself. I'll need a motu to look at it if you are able.
[18:18] <smarter> rgreening: REVU?
[18:18] <rgreening> yeah. going ot try my hand at packaging from scrath :)
[18:18] <apachelogger> rgreening: smarter is a MOTU and needs review practise ;-)
[18:18] <smarter> :P
[18:19] <rgreening> all right. smarter, help me with the correct process then.
[18:19] <smarter> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU should help you
[18:19] <apachelogger> smarter: seriously, good reviewing is more difficult than one might think
[18:20] <smarter> probably, and it's time-consuming(if you want to see if the thing actually build)
[18:20] <smarter> it would be handy if revu automatically built the packages :)
[18:21] <smarter> rgreening: and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete shall become your bible :p
[18:21] <rgreening> we need a Bat-REVU
[18:21] <smarter> why?
[18:21] <smarter> revu is good as it is
[18:21] <smarter> let's keep batstuff limited
[18:21] <rgreening> Bat-REVU would automate the shiz out of it
[18:21] <smarter> you don't have to do a lot of things to publish on revu
[18:22] <smarter> just register, wait or poke an admin, and dput revu packages_source.changes
[18:22] <apachelogger> smarter: we had that once
[18:22] <rgreening> k. thanks smarter.
[18:22] <smarter> apachelogger: building packages for revu?
[18:22]  * rgreening hunts down the tacacs source...
[18:22] <smarter> rgreening: but just RTFW :P
[18:22] <apachelogger> yes
[18:23] <smarter> and why did it get removed?
[18:23] <apachelogger> smarter: raphink wrote the revu-report script for that purpose
[18:23] <apachelogger> smarter: I think it ate too much resource
[18:23] <smarter> was this before the PPAs existed?
[18:24] <apachelogger> yes, long time ago
[18:24] <smarter> would be worth reimplementing it with a ppa
[18:24] <apachelogger> when I was only using kubuntu part time and raphink was still around and the ubuntu prophet claimed to like KDE :P
[18:24] <smarter> ^^'
[18:25] <apachelogger> smarter: I think the build pool shrunk again
[18:25] <apachelogger> so that might be difficult to do without blocking other builds
[18:25] <smarter> they could get really low priority
[18:26] <apachelogger> they still would get to build at some point
[18:26] <apachelogger> and hold up other builds
[18:28] <smarter> hmm
[18:43] <NCommander> hey apachelogger
[18:44] <rgreening> smarter: libauthen-tacacsplus-perl is for use with tacacs but no tacacs package exists to use it with. how stunned is stat
[18:44] <rgreening> s/stat/that
[18:44] <apachelogger> NCommander: hola, are you motu yet
[18:44] <NCommander> apachelogger, not yet
[18:44]  * NCommander is still waiting on his final +1
[18:45] <rgreening> smarter: nm. it connects to a (possible) external tacacs server. so no requirement for a local one.. still..
[18:45]  * NCommander is currently working on resolving the evil fontconfig bug in cairo
[19:15] <rgreening> apachelogger: In the old konqueror for kde 3.5, I believe there was a google search on the about page. Do you know where I can easily get the patch for that? I wanted to try and make one for konqueror 4
[19:17] <apachelogger> rgreening: lp/ubuntu/+source/kdebase I guess
[19:18] <apachelogger> rgreening: I would appreciate if you would do that change upstream though
[19:20] <rgreening> apachelogger: meaning KDE? or Debian?
[19:20] <apachelogger> rgreening: KDE :P
[19:20] <rgreening> ok, what process should I follow?
[19:22] <apachelogger> rgreening: get the patch, make it work and look sexy with KDE 4, propose the patch to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:22] <apachelogger> or maybe even<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:22] <apachelogger> considering the last is actually the right address ;-)
[19:23] <rgreening> k
[19:45] <rgreening> apachelogger: I was doing this for 4.1, I'm guessing KDE folks will want a 4.2 ver...
[19:47] <apachelogger> rgreening: for 4.1?
[19:51] <rgreening> Riddell asked about it, so I was going to get into updates for Intrepid first
[19:51] <rgreening> apachelogger: ^
[19:52]  * apachelogger isn't a fan of adding features in SRUs
[19:52] <apachelogger> also it's against policy IIRC
[19:53] <rgreening> apachelogger:  I'm going to play with it and see if I can make a patch. After, I'll fire it off to you and Riddell and we can figure out what to do with it if anything :)
[19:54] <apachelogger> rgreening: I would target it for 4.2/9.04
[19:55] <rgreening> I'll look into figuring out how to get 4.2 later...
[20:14] <naee> are usb drives not mounting by default by design or a bug?
[21:14] <Sime> koaka seems to have disappeared in the transition to intrepid.
[21:30] <jussi01> Sime: you mean kooka?
[21:31] <Sime> either way I can't find it and install it... :-/
[21:32] <jussi01> !info skanlite | Sime
[21:32] <Sime> mmm never heard of that one
[21:32] <Sime> thanks
[21:33] <jussi01> Sime: you should use #kubuntu for support though :)
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> kooka was in kdegraphics in kde3 iirc
[21:34] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: just the guy I wanted to see - got a moment for a PM?
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> sure
[22:19] <jpds> claydoh!
[22:20] <jpds> claydoh: Did you get my email on the ubuntu maine mailing list password?
[22:20] <claydoh> jpds: !!
[22:20] <claydoh> no
[22:20] <claydoh> or I lost or spamfiltered it
[22:21] <claydoh> how long back?
[22:22] <jpds> claydoh: Ages. It's to do with https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=1068 (user/pass: ubuntu).
[22:22]  * jpds headdesk - just saw your reply to it.
[22:23] <claydoh> ahh then it sitting om my dead system. I *just* now got a drive encloseure so I can get my old data back
[22:24] <jpds> claydoh: I see ticket #2806 is on the same topic, should I merge them together?
[22:25] <claydoh> ahh yes jpds merge is good
[22:26] <claydoh> no traffic other than spam on that list anyway
[22:26] <claydoh> us Mainers are too far separated to get together
[22:27] <jpds> claydoh: Done. I suggest trying to advertise the ticket between 9-17 UK time in #canonical-sysadmin to get them working on it.
[22:27] <claydoh> ok, and thanks jpds !
[22:27] <jpds> No problem.
[22:30]  * jpds goes off to bed. Night all.
[22:53] <KdeSudoNeedsRoot> hey. stop arguing about KdeSudo :)
[22:53] <KdeSudoNeedsRoot> cuz I needs it
[22:54] <KdeSudoNeedsRoot> doh! wrng chan


[13:39] <ogasawara> rtg:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1338919 .  Patch is referenced in comment #11.  Do you want to wait till that hits 3.18 or queue it now before utopic kernel freeze so we don't have SRU paperwork.
[13:40] <rtg> ogasawara, was just test building, then gonna run it on a couple of NUMA platforms
[13:40] <ogasawara> rtg: ack
[13:40] <rtg> ogasawara, its pushed to Utopic master-next
[13:40] <ogasawara> rtg: ah cool, I hadn't looked
[13:41] <rtg> ogasawara, seconds ago
[13:47] <ogasawara> jsalisbury: pending rtg's smoke testing in utopic, could you also crank out a Trusty test kernel with that patch too and work with catbus1 (ie Samantha) to reach out to her contacts for testing on Trusty.
[13:47] <ogasawara> jsalisbury: and we'll give you the honors of the Trusty SRU :)
[14:32] <jsalisbury> ogasawara, will do
[14:36] <ogasawara> rtg, apw:  https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/9/26/568
[14:38] <rtg> ogasawara, debian.master/config/config.common.ubuntu:# CONFIG_DMA_CMA is not set
[14:38] <rtg> we disabled it for both Trusty and Utopic
[14:40] <ogasawara> rtg: hrm, I see it on for Trusty
[14:40]  * ogasawara makes sure I'm in the right repo and branch
[14:40] <rtg> me too
[14:41] <rtg> dang, you're right
[14:41] <ogasawara> rtg: but it does look like it is off in Utopic
[14:41] <ogasawara> even if the annotation file suggests otherwise
[14:41] <rtg> yup
[14:42] <rtg> ogasawara, fixed now
[14:43] <rtg> I'll SRU that config for trusty
[14:43] <ogasawara> rtg: ack, thanks
[14:43] <ogasawara> rtg: I'll respond to that thread as well
[14:44]  * apw notes rtg has this under control ...
[14:46] <jsalisbury> ogasawara, rtg, there was a bug on CONFIG_DMA_CMA: bug 1362261
[14:46] <rtg> jsalisbury, thanks, I was just going to look for that
[14:49] <jsalisbury> rtg, I was going to do a Trusty SRU for that bug, but I didn't get definitive test results yet.
[14:50] <rtg> jsalisbury, It seems nobody has complained about Trusty. Now that I'm remembering this bug a little more, I'm not as inclined to change it for Trusty.
[14:50] <rtg> ogasawara, ^^
[14:51] <ogasawara> rtg: ack
[14:51] <jsalisbury> rtg, yeah
[14:51] <rtg> I mean, it ain't broke, so lets not fix better.
[14:51] <rtg> fix it better*
[14:51] <ogasawara> jsalisbury: certainly based on the feedback, it does not seem to be impacting Trusty reporters of that bug
[14:52] <jsalisbury> ogasawara, agreed
[15:00] <ogasawara> rtg, jsalisbury: so reading that a little more, the guys not seeing issues on Trusty is with readeon, I wonder if it would manifest with other drivers
[15:01] <rtg> ogasawara, perhaps, but nobody is complaining regardless.
[15:03] <rtg> ogasawara, by the way, the patch for http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1338919 appears to not have caused any regressions that I can see.
[15:03] <ogasawara> rtg: ack, thanks
[15:04] <jsalisbury> ogasawara, I didn't read through that entire LKML tread you mentioned.  The bug is for a performance issue, is that what they are talking about on LKML as well?
[15:04] <ogasawara> jsalisbury: yep
[15:04] <jsalisbury> ahh, ok
[15:49] <jsalisbury> rtg, did you have any issue building the patch for bug 1338919 against Utopic?  It failed to build against Trusty for me, but I'm digging into why
[15:50] <rtg> jsalisbury, nope, worked fine. clean cherry-pick
[15:50] <jsalisbury> rtg, ok, thanks.  I'll dig as to why if failed
[16:03] <cking> yay, my 11 year old son won a photo competition: https://www.facebook.com/buchancountrypark/photos/a.848046551895697.1073741846.247149068652118/848046645229021/?type=3&theater
[16:05] <rtg> cking, -EWRONGCHAN ?
[16:05] <cking> yup
[16:06] <cking> oops
[16:06] <TJ-> but +WELLDONE :)
[22:49] <dirbaio> Hello
[22:49] <dirbaio> I'm building some kernels following the instructions here:
[22:49] <dirbaio> http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/ch-common-tasks.html
[22:49] <dirbaio> section 4.5
[22:49] <dirbaio> Works fine, the resulting kernels install fine and boot
[22:50] <dirbaio> the problem is building the deb packages is horribly slow
[22:50] <dirbaio> much slower than compilation itself
[22:50] <dirbaio> it's been "building package linux-image..." for more than 20 minutes now
[22:50] <dirbaio> is this normal? Is there any trick to make it faster?
[22:51] <dirbaio> compilation takes around 15min for me
[23:37] <dirbaio> okay, turns out it's my fault
[23:37] <dirbaio> disabling DEBUG_INFO makes it reasonably fast now
[23:37] <dirbaio> still interested in ways of making it faster though :)
[23:41] <dirbaio> it boots
[23:41] <dirbaio> :D


[11:37] <falathar> Is it possible to have both Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio on the same partition? I'd use Ubuntu Studio for audio work and Ubuntu for normal everyday use... (I'm new to linux, so I'm not very good in these things yet...)
[12:06] <saidinesh5> falathar: its easy if you assume thats not possible :)
[12:07] <saidinesh5> same hard disk: yes...... same partition...... ummmmmm....... assume it isnt possible :)
[12:08] <saidinesh5> if you are a bit more adventurous and still want to install them on the same partition....... this is one way to do it http://lubi.sourceforge.net/
[12:11] <falathar> hmm, I just wondered that I could save disk space that way. For example, both distros have many same programs in them, right?


[01:36] <wxl> 2 down, 2 to go
[01:37] <wxl> Riddell: you going to call Kubuntu ready anyways?
[01:38] <wxl> darkxst: what's the on GNOME? :(
[02:03] <darkxst> wxl, ready
[02:06] <wxl> thx darkxst
[09:01] <tseliot> any admins around?
[09:01] <wxl> tseliot: whatcha need?
[09:01] <tseliot> wxl: can you reject nvidia-graphics-drivers-346 and nvidia-graphics-drivers-346-updates from vivid NEW, please?
[09:02] <wxl> tseliot: sorry to say THAT is beyond my capacity
[09:02] <tseliot> np
[09:06] <Laney> wxl: looking good!
[09:07] <Riddell> tseliot: looking
[09:07] <Riddell> tseliot: all gone!
[09:07] <tseliot> Riddell: thanks!
[09:09] <Laney> Riddell: get those images signed off, slacker ;-)
[09:10] <Riddell> ooh we're the only flavour slacking
[10:15] <Riddell> Laney: marked as ready!
[10:17] <Laney> nice
[10:17] <Laney> thanks!
[10:22] <Laney> wxl: I'll start publishing soon, since all of the images I need are ready (still waiting for cloud images but they are done by a separate system which the cloud guys themselves drive)
[11:55] <sergiusens> can someone please trigger me a rebuild for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nuntium/1.4-0ubuntu1/+build/6738207
[11:55] <sergiusens> ?
[11:56] <Laney> OK (FYI any developer who can upload the package can do that)
[12:09] <sergiusens> Laney: thanks, I'll upload a rebuild next time, I just didn't want to rebuild for the other arches
[12:10] <cjwatson> sergiusens: No, please don't upload a rebuild if you just need to retry
[12:10] <cjwatson> sergiusens: Laney meant that anybody who Launchpad thinks is entitled to upload the package has a retry button available to them for failures
[12:10] <cjwatson> sergiusens: Not that you should reupload
[12:11] <sergiusens> cjwatson: oh, sorry I didn't get that right
[12:11] <sergiusens> is there a way to tell it to use a different builder?
[12:11] <cjwatson> But if you're uploading via CI Train then that doesn't hold ...
[12:11] <cjwatson> Not really.  What is your theory?
[12:11] <Laney> Indeed, I was referring to your asking in #ubuntu-release instead of (for example) #ubuntu-devel.
[12:11] <sergiusens> cjwatson: not using ci train
[12:11] <cjwatson> The builders should be essentially identical
[12:12] <cjwatson> We can do tricks like putting all the other builders on manual to force a build onto a nominated builder, but I'd like to hear why
[12:12] <cjwatson> sergiusens: ah, right, you had a sponsor (who can retry)
[12:13] <sergiusens> cjwatson: I keep having this problem with gcc-go and power64; according to infinity it may be that gcc-go is saying it supports more (or less) than it really does and that the builders aren't all the same
[12:13] <cjwatson> sergiusens: Which builders are theorised to work differently?
[12:14] <cjwatson> denneed{03,04} have been down for a while, and I'd be surprised if fisher* weren't all the same ...
[12:15] <infinity> sergiusens: All ppc64el builders are identical.
[12:15] <infinity> sergiusens: When we had that discussion ages ago, it would have been about powerpc (the 32-bit arch), not ppc64el.
[12:16] <sergiusens> cjwatson: well I can't figure out why this arch any part that builds everywhere and built fine in the previous upload (oh and just saw it was fisher04) with no code changes there fails now
[12:16] <cjwatson> I don't know.  Perhaps gccgo changed in some relevant way?
[12:16] <cjwatson> Try diffing the build logs
[12:17] <sergiusens> cjwatson: do we get access to porter boxes for ppc64?
[12:17] <cjwatson> porter-ppc64el
[12:17] <cjwatson> https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/ISO/BuildInfrastructure/PorterBoxes
[12:18] <sergiusens> thanks
[12:21] <infinity> There is a shiny new gcc-4.9 in -proposed, which may have a bunch of new ppc64 go patches.
[12:22] <sergiusens> oh goodie
[13:21] <mdeslaur> can someone please release mysql-5.5 in vivid, it's a security update
[13:21] <Laney> the freeze is going to be lifted shortly
[13:22] <Laney> Odd_Bloke: are you publishing the cloud images this time?
[13:22] <mdeslaur> Laney: ah, thanks
[13:29] <utlemming> Laney: nope, me this time
[13:32] <Laney> utlemming: ok, how are they looking? would like to unfreeze soonish if poss
[13:32] <utlemming> Laney: good to go, but the tracker for some reason isn't letting me push the bits.
[13:33] <Laney> hmm, they're on the manifest
[13:33] <Laney> we might need stgraber to help
[13:33] <Laney> back in a bit, lunch
[13:41] <infinity> utlemming: What bits are you having troubles pushing?
[13:42] <infinity> utlemming: And, perhaps more interestingly, does it matter?  Does your publishing machinery talk to the tracker?
[13:43] <infinity> Laney: If everyone's ready and utlemming claims he's set, except for tracker issues, you should probably lift the freeze.  Doesn't sound like anyone needs to rebuild anything.
[14:10] <Riddell> wxl: when do you expect to announce the release?
[14:13]  * cjwatson hits /~ubuntu-release/+leave
[14:27] <infinity> cjwatson: *sniff*
[14:27] <utlemming> infinity: my bits simply report stuff to the tracker
[14:27] <utlemming> infinity: but, no it doesn't matter
[14:27] <utlemming> infinity: afaic, all it good
[14:29] <infinity> utlemming: Check.
[14:29] <infinity> Laney: ^
[14:31] <Laney> infinity: Ya. I know.
[14:47] <wxl> miss you cjwatson :) (please fix sourceforge urls in launchpad) :)
[14:47] <wxl> Riddell: just woke up
[14:47] <wxl> Laney: what's the word?
[14:47] <Riddell> morning wxl
[14:47] <wxl> Laney: everything's ready
[14:48] <wxl> Laney: reading backlog i'm thinking we should publish some information on how to check on cloud's readiness.
[14:50] <Laney> wxl: They'd usually be in the tracker, apart from whatever problem there is this time
[14:51] <Laney> as for *publishing*, check with the person doing the release if the URL doesn't exist
[14:51] <Laney> and yes, everything should be ready
[14:51] <Laney> you might want to verify one of the torrents to see if they're hashed/seeding
[14:51] <wxl> so i'm good for the release announcement?
[14:54] <wxl> Laney: is it weird that cdimage lists Ubuntu GNOME as the daily build? url is right http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/releases/vivid/alpha-2/
[14:55] <Laney> I fixed that (and the frontend that served me had the change), might take a few minutes for it to sync out completely.
[14:55] <sil2100> Hello! I'm looking for an archive admin that could remove myspell-hr from ubuntu-rtm -proposed o/
[14:55] <wxl> well actually there may be a different url according to the release notes http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/releases/15.04/alpha-2/
[14:56] <Laney> that's a symlink
[14:56] <wxl> ah ok
[14:56] <wxl> then i won't sweat it
[14:58] <wxl> ok release announcement coming soon then :)
[14:59] <amjjawad> Laney, thanks for that ;)
[14:59] <wxl> and sent
[14:59] <amjjawad> http://ubuntugnome.org/vivid-ververt-alpha-2-has-arrived/
[14:59] <amjjawad> Too slow wxl ;)
[14:59] <Laney> thank wxl
[15:00] <wxl> thank you all
[15:00]  * wxl passes the checklist person torch to elfy
[15:00] <wxl> oh didn't realize ubuntu-devel-announce was moderated
[15:01] <wxl> oh well hope that goes through soon enough
[15:01] <wxl> omg i made the subject still have alpha 1 in it
[15:01] <wxl> and there's a grammatical error in the first line
[15:01]  * wxl sighs
[15:02] <wxl> oh well, it's an alpha. you should expect some bugs.
[15:02] <Laney> that's a good thing about moderation
[15:02] <Laney> the link you got back lets you cancel the mail, so you can send it again
[15:02] <wxl> oh
[15:03] <wxl> still went to release
[15:03] <wxl> oh well
[15:03] <wxl> it's wiki hell time now too :/
[15:04] <wxl> there better
[15:06] <wxl> ok i'm going on with life
[15:06] <wxl> thanks all
[15:06] <Laney> thanks for helping
[15:06] <Laney> see you next cycle :P
[15:07] <Laney> cron back on
[15:07]  * cjwatson moderates u-d-a
[15:08] <cjwatson> sil2100: can you give me a reason message?
[15:08] <infinity> cjwatson: Beat me to it by a hair.
[15:09] <amjjawad> thanks everyone for everything :)
[15:09] <amjjawad> Cya next cycle ;)
[15:09] <sil2100> cjwatson: o/ "Existing version in the release pocket has a higher version number" would be enough I suppose
[15:10] <sil2100> cjwatson: since the lower upload is just CI Train not checking the destination during publishing after Robert's publisher changes...
[15:10] <sil2100> In the past it was actually checking if it makes sense to publish, but now it just does it
[15:10] <sil2100> (will have to fix that once we have the power to redeploy citrain code)
[15:11] <cjwatson> sil2100: done
[15:11] <sil2100> cjwatson: thank you!
[15:11] <pitti> wxl: congrats to alpha-2! how was your first-time release mgr experience?
[15:11] <Laney> the flavours were too well behaved
[15:13] <amjjawad> Laney, I had this note from darkxst "seems automated image tests havent run since early december, not sure if they are just broken or someone disabled
[15:13] <amjjawad> them"
[15:13] <stgraber> utlemming: good mroning
[15:13] <amjjawad> any idea Laney ?
[15:16] <Laney> amjjawad: no, which tests?
[15:17] <amjjawad> the automated image tests Laney
[15:17] <Laney> got a link?
[15:17] <amjjawad> not really
[15:17] <Laney> I'll ask him tomorrow
[15:17] <amjjawad> that was an email from darkxst and I was about to send an email to the list but couldn't due to real life stuff
[15:18] <amjjawad> no worries, thanks a lot anyway Laney :)
[15:22] <ochosi> woot, alpha 1 released: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2015-January/003194.html
[15:22] <ochosi> :]
[15:22] <amjjawad> ochosi, you mean A2 ;)
[15:22] <mlankhorst> huzzah
[15:23] <ochosi> amjjawad: yeah, but read the subject of the email
[15:23] <amjjawad> I did ochosi
[15:23] <Laney> the one on devel-announce is right
[15:23] <amjjawad> it was a mistake and it happens :)
[15:23] <ochosi> and yeah, obviously i was just kidding :)
[15:23] <amjjawad> ochosi, sure, I got it ;)
[15:27] <wxl> pitti: i've been release manager for lubuntu for a whlie now, but this is the first time helping with community milestones
[15:28] <wxl> ochosi: jeez, you're so mean. :(
[15:28] <wxl> :)
[15:28] <ochosi> heh ;)
[15:28] <elfy> no - he really is mean wxl :D
[15:28] <ochosi> sorry, it was just too easy
[15:28] <wxl> hahahah
[15:29] <elfy> I'm saying nothing till after b1 :)
[15:29] <wxl> hahahah
[15:34] <wxl> Laney: i note that cron is set to build dailes for kubuntu and gnome right before we released. might want to manually trigger those for rebuild
[15:34] <Laney> wxl: if they want to, the flavour leads have access to do that
[15:34] <wxl> Riddell: darkxst amjjawad manually trigger your dailies
[16:14] <stgraber> can an AA pretty please binNEW LXC (adding lua-lxc for all arches)? thanks
[17:10] <wxl> um
[17:10] <wxl> so our daily rebuilt and supposedly removed old images but the tracker doesn't show http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/lubuntu/vivid/daily-20150122.log
[17:11] <infinity> stgraber: Done.
[17:12] <cjwatson> wxl: It shows on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds
[17:12] <stgraber> infinity: yay, thanks!
[17:14] <wxl> cjwatson: nevermind. too impatient. didn't when i looked :)
[18:42] <sil2100> Hey! Could someone be so kind and copy-over golang-go-flags-dev from ubuntu to ubuntu-rtm? ;)
[18:44] <sil2100> ^ nevermind that, slangasek already agreed to help
[18:47] <slangasek> sil2100: I think it's done
[18:48] <sil2100> slangasek: thank you!
[19:36] <darkxst> Laney, wxl, manual rebuilds of dailies has never worked the few times I tried
[19:37] <darkxst> (and seems our images built today anyway)
[19:47] <wxl> darkxst: always worked fine for me! i doubt that's the answer you want. do you need me to do it?
[19:48] <darkxst> wxl, no, they seem to have built anyway somehow
[19:49] <wxl> darkxst: the thing you have to remember is it takes time :)
[19:49] <darkxst> wxl, when I have tried in the past they start but then get stuck
[19:50] <wxl> darkxst: that's when i would suggest bugging someone about it. i've seen issues like that in the past and cjwatson was always able to fix it. unfortunately, he's no longer part of the release team. he has imparted some small amount of his knowledge to me and i'm pretty sure i can help point you in the right direction if need be.
[19:58] <darkxst> wxl, its ok I guess, its pretty rare we need to rebuild dailies, so not much of hassle to bug someone here to bump them through
[20:01] <wxl> darkxst: certainly something to pay attention to when a release is out
[20:18] <darkxst> wxl, I would normally only force rebuild when they are broken, not a huge problem if it takes 1 extra day to rebuild after release!
[20:54] <stgraber> taking system-image importer offline for an index rebuild (some more version_detail fix)
[20:59] <stgraber> done and back online
[21:49] <cjwatson> darkxst: I'm not sure I ever recall you reporting this before, or if you did it was due to some specific problem that I fixed and not a fundamental failure to support this; best thing would be if you report it when it happens, but hard to say retrospectively
[21:50] <cjwatson> darkxst: "start but then get stuck" would be weird, but perhaps iso.qa reported that the rebuild was in progress and there was a lock held, that's at least somewhat likely
[22:08] <darkxst> cjwatson, yes something like that, I just know its required manual intervention, the few times I have tried


[05:15] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:27] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/the-ubuntu-tablets-are-coming-and-they-look-beefy-video-491047.shtml
[05:33] <lotuspsychje> gpdev: good morning :p
[05:33] <gpdev> Morning?! Good afternoon! :p
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> gpdev: yeah worldwide timezone gap here :p
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> 7h34 here
[05:35] <gpdev> Sounds like coffee time haha
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> mmm yeah
[05:36] <gpdev> It's 3:36pm here
[05:37] <gpdev> I'm in between work and irc so there may be a delay
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> np, we are used to idle
[05:58] <lordievader> Good morning.
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> hi lordievader
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: did you see this1 :p https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aiforeveryone/mycroft-an-open-source-artificial-intelligence-for
[06:00] <ObrienDave> waves
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> hi ObrienDave
[06:01] <lordievader> Morning lotuspsychje, ObrienDave
[06:01] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: I haven't.
[06:02] <ObrienDave> sigh, yes it is morning and i have no water in my new place GRRRRRRRR
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> ObrienDave: grab a beer :p
[06:02] <ObrienDave> landlord has a plumber coming. be here within 2 hours *sigh*
[06:02] <ObrienDave> i have PLENTY of beer ;P
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> ObrienDave: go get a takeaway breakfast
[06:03] <lordievader> Too bad it doesn't say what kind of algorithms they use.
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah not sure, pretty enw to me also
[06:03] <ObrienDave> lotuspsychje, wife and i just got back from dinner LOL
[06:03] <lordievader> I hope for them it ain't neural networks. Neural networks and pi's don't mix.
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> gpdev: help with what?
[06:04] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: the video looks nice, mycroft turn the lights on! make coffee!
[06:05] <lordievader> Probably has Sphinx under the hood.
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: its snappy core based
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: maybe the #snappy guys might know more under the hood?
[06:07]  * lordievader wonders if they are using Festival
[06:10] <gpdev> lotuspsychje: General/basic queries where I can.


[07:31] <zmagii> How can I change the default sorting on Ubuntu Studio? I want to sort with ascii / unicode rather than alphanumeric. For example, _abc should come before aabc.
[07:41] <OvenWerks> zmagii: what sorting where?
[08:07] <zmagii> In the file system GUI.
[08:10] <OvenWerks> which version of ubuntustudio? pre-20.10 ask in #xubuntu 20.10 ask in #kubuntu
[08:10] <OvenWerks> you are asking about specific applications so asking the author would make more sense
[08:11] <OvenWerks> thunar in xfce and Dolphin in KDE
[08:30] <zmagii> Eh, let me see which one, should be recent.
[08:31]  * OvenWerks wanders off to bed
[08:31] <zmagii> 20.04
[08:31] <zmagii> Does 20.10 not use xfce? <panicking>
[14:20] <MauroGaspari[m]> zmagii ubuntu studio switched to plasma on 20.10
[14:21] <MauroGaspari[m]> You still can install xubuntu 20.10 and then add studio goodies with a single package, studio installer.
[14:30] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://ubuntustudio.org/ubuntu-studio-installer/
[15:28] <andrtea> hello
[15:30] <andrtea> I have problems connecting my laptop with ubuntu studio inside, it always tells me wrong password, when in reality it is true
[16:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> andrtea: Try #ubuntu for help with that since it's not a studio-specific issue.
[16:31] <Maik> Eickmeyer[m]: already gone :)
[16:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> #shocker
[16:32] <Maik> downside of matrix bridges
[16:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Downside of impatience, too.
[16:32] <Maik> yep
[23:42] <dazikae> Hello, after years off, I've recently switched to using Ubuntu Studio with Ardour (I was using Reason and other software on Windows before). I recently attempted to install and use Swami to create a sound font (sf2), following the tutorial (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook/CreateSoundFontSwami) but I notice when I run the program, there is NO fluidsynth UI showing in the window. When I attempt to "reload" ("refresh"?) the
[23:42] <dazikae> FluidSynth plugin, I still have nothing. Right now, I have uninstalled Swami and am planning to try agian. Any idea of how I went wrong before?


[00:01] <MrChrisDruif> And the day is still young Myrtti
[00:58] <IdleOne> !ops | IdleOne is testing something
[00:58] <IdleOne> hmm
[00:58] <IdleOne> interedsting
[00:58] <IdleOne> s/d/s/
[01:05] <MrChrisDruif> So it seems
[02:11] <tonyyarusso> ubottu: what are you testing exactly?
[02:11] <tonyyarusso> ....
[02:11] <tonyyarusso> IdleOne:
[02:11] <tonyyarusso> To be fair, those keys actually are next to each other.
[02:24] <elky> tonyyarusso, <jdhfr> so canonical does crap software to sell support?
[02:27] <tonyyarusso> still hardly something that requires a trigger...
[02:27] <Jordan_U> If nobody else has done it I plan to PM violinappren about not being quite so trigger happy with !ops.
[02:45] <IdleOne> tonyyarusso: was wondering why when Gnea used the ops trigger, ubottu didn't respond
[02:46] <tonyyarusso> IdleOne: ah
[02:46] <tonyyarusso> huh
[05:52] <elky> yano, pinging staff everywhere is he?
[05:52] <yano> apparently so
[08:23] <oCean> Pouncer> anyone good with networking
[08:23] <oCean> kanliot> yeah i have tons of facebook friends
[08:23] <yano> hah
[10:43] <LjL> i know we support non-gnome stuff in #ubuntu... but damn, why do people have to ask GUI-specific things and only specify they're using a derivative after they've been answered
[10:43] <knome> LjL, it's way more fun that way
[10:49] <elky> * SharkMuttleworth<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-offtopic
[10:49] <elky> o.O
[10:53] <MrChrisDruif> Awesome name is awesome
[11:15] <elky> also smells of troll
[15:40] <LjL> ikonia: so aside from having this guy file a bug, how would you work it around? i'd just symlink libbotan-1.8.2 to libbotan-1.8.13, but that might be less than ideal
[15:50] <ikonia> LjL: apologies, I wasn't watching I had to run off for a minute to talk to someone, what's the actual issue
[15:50] <ikonia> missing symlink, sure, manually put the symlink in and get the bug logged but explain the resolution in the bug so it's a clear fix


[05:00] <RAOF> Oh.
[05:00] <RAOF> / TODO support surface modifications
[05:01] <RAOF> Well, that's why m_surface->generate_renderables only ever returns one renderable, then.
[05:10] <RAOF> We should be handling set_streams calls before handing the request on to the shell.
[05:11] <RAOF> Yeeees!
[05:11] <RAOF> I win the subsurface award!
[05:17] <RAOF> Hm.
[05:17] <RAOF> Positioning is not quite right.
[05:17] <RAOF> SHIP IT ANYWAY!
[09:48] <greyback_> alan_g: hey, I was porting qtmir to the WindowManagement API (removing SessionListener) last night, and noticed that the WM has no notion of prompt sessions. Is that intentional?
[09:49] <greyback_> also, are you planning on removing mir::shell::Shell, as it duplicates much of WindowManager
[09:50] <alan_g> greyback_: I've "not needed" prompt sessions for any of the window management work I've done in Mir (yet)
[09:50] <alan_g> I've shown you this before: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/qtmir/window-management/+merge/274241
[09:51] <alan_g> It's been waiting on the simpler stuff to land
[09:52] <greyback_> alan_g: yep, you have. I just wanted to remove SessionListener and make more use of WM. Hopefully doesn't conflict too much
[09:54] <alan_g> greyback_: sure, all part of the same migration. are prompt sessions a blocker?
[09:54] <greyback_> alan_g: not at all. Just curious about the direction
[09:56] <alan_g> Well, for direction, I'd like to "internalize" Shell and "publish" BasicWindowManager - but the latter needs more work.
[09:57] <greyback_> ok
[11:17] <alan_g> greyback_: any more thoughts? https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/qtmir/test-harness-for-MirWindowManager/+merge/274221
[11:18] <greyback_> alan_g: I don't think I had.
[11:19] <greyback_> approved
[11:25] <alan_g> thanks
[13:48]  * alan_g wishes he could mount an sd card with a useful filesystem
[14:04] <anpok> vogons: should we use the dso versioning guide also for loadable modules?
[14:05] <anpok> ... modules as in platforms.. /me doesnt see the need as the most part of the abi is not inside the set of symbols.. but the vtables..
[14:07] <alan_g> anpok: There's clearly a need for some versioning. I've not thought about whether the guide covers it.
[14:09] <anpok> i have to bump input platform abi right now.. so I would have to either go to '4' or 0.18.0
[14:12]  * alan_g decides to read what the guide says today....
[14:12] <anpok> :)
[14:12] <popey> robert_ancell: bug 1421575
[14:12] <ubot5`> bug 1421575 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Desktop corruption when changing monitor config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421575
[14:15] <alan_g> anpok: so your only question is about "_4" vs "_0.18"?
[14:16] <anpok> yes
[14:17] <alan_g> "_0.18" makes sense to me
[14:17] <anpok> i mean the motivation for that naming for client comman and server .. and platform dso versioning does not seem to apply here. So I wasnt sure to use that naming for platforms
[14:17] <anpok> *common
[14:18] <alan_g> Well, the argument that having a name related to the release is easier to get right still applies
[14:19] <anpok> for the package and shared library name.. yes
[14:27] <alan_g> anpok: It would be more consistent with "horizontal_scroll_scale" to have "cursor_acceleration_bias".
[14:28] <anpok> right
[14:36] <alan_g> anpok: As it was merged and reverted you need to rebase this for it to have any effect: lp:~andreas-pokorny/mir/load-all-supported-input-platforms
[14:36] <anpok> oh right
[16:00] <alan_g> alf: have you looked into lp:1502782 at all?
[16:13] <alf> alan_g: no


[00:37] <Pwnna> is there a way to import panel settings via command line?
[00:37] <Pwnna> for the xfce4-panel's import/export feature
[01:59] <xubuntu52i> hello, what the best version for wine, with diablo 3
[01:59] <xubuntu52i> battle net
[07:17] <akis> Hi all. If i only open a .deb file with ubuntu software center but i don't proceed to installation because of a dependency unavailability, is it anything changed on my system?
[11:52] <xubuntu26w> hi
[11:53] <xubuntu26w> I am going to install xubuntu on my eeePc. Since I had had always windows I have one question:
[11:53] <xubuntu26w> Do I need an antivirus on xubuntu?
[11:54] <kryten> !antivirus | xubuntu26w
[11:57] <xubuntu26w> and what about  clamTK manager?
[11:59] <kryten> What about it?
[12:32] <xubuntu26w> do I need?
[12:34] <kryten> Why would you need that when you don't need virus protection?
[12:35] <knome> if you are in a network with windows hosts, you might want to consider that
[12:35] <xubuntu26w> I use my pc also to check my bank account, so I would like to be sure
[15:42] <Enkidu_ak> Is there a separate config for xfce-display-manager that overrides xorg.conf.d configs? I'm trying to add new display mods to my display and no matter what I drop in to the xorg conf xfce shows the same resolutions available.
[16:22] <xubuntu84w> sent here by xubuntu-devel:  looking for a way to image my live session usb into an .iso.  can do with dd command in ubuntu, but in xubuntu this command produces a raw dd image, not an .iso
[16:22] <xubuntu84w> how do i do it?
[16:24] <dreamon_> xubuntu 16.04 issue light-locker-settings → http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15384959/
[16:30] <dkessel> xubuntu84w: i would point you to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization - but it seems that server is broken atm (at least for me...)
[16:31] <dkessel> that describes the official procedure for doing it, and should just work(tm)
[20:12] <sine0> I just want to say again how the great the xubuntu desktop is, its absolutly the sh*t.
[20:12] <sine0> even the terminal title bbar font with the slight emboss. mmm sezual
[20:32] <knome> sine0, please remember this channel is family friendly.
[20:37] <slee> hello, whats a simple app for xubuntu to manage  your drives, auto mount them(have it auto update your fstab)?
[20:37] <bekks> slee: automounting does not alter your fstab.
[20:38] <slee> ok, whats an app to automount my slave drives? everytime i boot, my slave is inactive until i click on the drive in file manager
[20:39] <bekks> !automount
[20:49] <slee> ok, my slave drive is already automounted...what causes it to to be inactive until i click it once in file manager? example, if i reboot and open my media center, the icons i use are on slave drive and fail to load in media center unless i first go into file manager and click on slave drive
[21:28] <kenb> Anyone know why in settings manager autostart items, all the items are greyed out and how to fix that?
[21:29] <kenb> Guessing that I need to restart to fix it, but not sure.
[22:20] <django_> hey so i accidentally deleted the button and the top right corner that shows the wifi and stuff like that
[22:21] <django_> http://i.imgur.com/57J4yCk.png
[22:27] <kryten> django_: That's "Indicator Plugin" - just add it back.
[22:29] <django_> kryten, how
[22:30] <kryten> django_: As reisio suggested in #ubuntu.
[23:58] <xubuntu274> resurrecting an ancient laptop with xubuntu :D
[23:58] <mrkramps> good luck