[00:00] <zul> imbrandon: just do it ;)
[00:00] <imbrandon> azeem, :P
[00:00] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I think the policy should be "don't". They're probably on mentors for a reason.
[00:00] <crimsun> bah, mentors can't be any worse than apt-get.org
[00:00] <bddebian> or REVU ;-)
[00:00] <joejaxx> :)
[00:00] <bddebian> I have a couple on mentors that I'll probably upload
[00:00] <bddebian> Updates to pybliographer and valknut since the maintainers aren't responding :-(
[00:01] <imbrandon> bddebian, yea i was just looking over awn on mentors, looks solid
[00:01] <Fujitsu> crimsun: We fortunately don't do apt-get.org any more, do we?
[00:02] <Fujitsu> We just have to live with the hundreds of packages we collected from there.
[00:02] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, on request we'll sycn from any apt repo iirc :P
[00:02] <imbrandon> i dont think any are auto anymore though other than maybe debian-multimedia.org possibly
[00:02] <Fujitsu> debian-multimedia isn't automatic.
[00:02] <crimsun> Fujitsu: thankfully not.
[00:03] <crimsun> although I haven't followed the getdeb thread(s) closely...
[00:03] <Fujitsu> Only Debian main seems to be.
[00:03] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Yes! Let's sync from there.
[00:03] <crimsun> mm horkage
[00:04] <imbrandon> we cant , they dont use a repo, all http + apturl / gdebi :)
[00:05] <imbrandon> ok let me put it this way ..... if i grab a package from mentors, look it over localy and am satisfied with it, upload it to REVU for a bit of peer revu does anyone see a problem with me uploading prior to debian ( with proper versioning so when it does hit debian its taken in etc )
[00:05] <crimsun> wow, to achieve the things that Fedora 8 has done with PulseAudio, we'll have to revamp debian/*.
[00:06] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Why?
[00:06] <imbrandon> i know thats not the NORMAL way but i dont want to wait on a long debian processes at this stage
[00:06] <bddebian> sweet, get to work ;-P
[00:06] <crimsun> imbrandon: personally, no, though the tension between waiting for the Debian upload so that you can sync and simply uploading to Ubuntu would be considered...
[00:07] <crimsun> Fujitsu: quite a lot of the "nice" things (session management, stream control for devices, etc.) are spread across main and universe packages, and the build-dependencies themselves have the same issue
[00:07] <imbrandon> hrm maybe i'll just get in contact with a DD and see how quickly i can get it pushed in
[00:07] <bddebian> Yeah because Debian is a PITA in many cases :-(
[00:07] <imbrandon> atleaste first
[00:08] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Ah. Sounds like a mess.
[00:08] <joejaxx> bddebian: when? :P
[00:08] <crimsun> just a small, conquerable mess.
[00:08] <white> imbrandon: apply for NM and become the "fast-sponsoring-DD" ;)
[00:08] <white> imbrandon: or ask Fujitsu once he gets through :)
[00:08] <imbrandon> white, or me :) lol
[00:09] <joejaxx> imbrandon: you are DD? lol
[00:09] <imbrandon> i have 2 and a backup i normaly chat up first, one is super busy atm i learned earlier, maybe i'll have some luck with the others :)
[00:09] <imbrandon> joejaxx, someday
[00:09] <joejaxx> oh ok
[00:09] <joejaxx> lol
[00:09] <white> imbrandon: poke some in this channel, mainly siretart :)
[00:10] <imbrandon> white, he's the backup :)
[00:10] <white> hehe
[00:10] <joejaxx> i always said i would probably get through the debian developer process than ubuntu motu
[00:10] <joejaxx> lol
[00:10] <joejaxx> faster that is
[00:10] <joejaxx> lol
[00:10] <bddebian> That could only be if you WANTED to do that
[00:10] <joejaxx> since the DD process is slower
[00:10] <imbrandon> heh i doubt that, i became a MOTU + core-dev rather fast IMHO
[00:11] <crimsun> I tend to agree with Colin (kamion) in that regard; it's likely more a "people" thing than a "project" thing.
[00:11] <imbrandon> with reguard to DD's ?
[00:11] <joejaxx> so atleast with DD i would know what to do in order to get it
[00:11] <crimsun> well, the rate at which one becomes NM, DD, etc.
[00:12] <joejaxx> motu seems to be quite different
[00:12] <joejaxx> lol
[00:12] <bddebian> crimsun: Where there's a whole lot of "people" in that "project" ;-)
[00:12] <crimsun> it's pretty unfair to say that Ubuntu/Debian is faster than Debian/Ubuntu
[00:12] <white> Fujitsu: what takes you so long btw?
[00:12] <white> what about DM. This is almost in place
[00:13] <Fujitsu> white: Erm, studying. I haven't done all of T&S, and really don't have the time at the moment.
[00:13] <joejaxx> crimsun: i almost rather do the second
[00:13] <Fujitsu> In a couple of weeks exams will be over, and I should be able to finish it quickly.
[00:13] <white> Fujitsu: go offline and study, i told you ;)
[00:13] <imbrandon> crimsun heh well yes it is quite unfair , but when you see NM on planet.d.o complaingin about getting approved and still waiting 2 years for accounts its kinda hard not to make that distinction in your mind
[00:13] <crimsun> DM seems like a Really Good Thing.
[00:13] <crimsun> err, I just thought of Baldur's Gate.
[00:13] <bddebian> imbrandon: That sounds about right
[00:13] <joejaxx> crimsun: haha :P
[00:13] <imbrandon> hehe DM
[00:14] <white> imbrandon: patience is a virtue ;)
[00:14] <Fujitsu> I hate to think how long something like that would take for us to implement... it would mean a change in Soyuz, which could take years
[00:14] <Fujitsu> And years.
[00:15] <imbrandon> white, i have all the patients i need imho, but a process that takes 2 years imho is a tad long, hell i've only been arround ubuntu 2.75 years and only been a MOTU + core-dev for 1.5+
[00:15] <imbrandon> or so ( without looking up dates )
[00:15] <white> :)
[00:15] <joejaxx> anyone know if Russell Coker was at uds
[00:15] <joejaxx> ?
[00:15] <joejaxx> if he was i missed a grand opportunity :\
[00:15] <zul> porbably
[00:15] <crimsun> I don't believe so, but I was only there one day
[00:16] <bddebian> imbrandon: Well you might have found a sponsor by then..
[00:17] <imbrandon> bddebian, hehe
[00:17] <imbrandon> sponsorship i have no issues with NORMALY in debian, its the rest of the stuff
[00:17] <white> imbrandon: you want to vote?
[00:17] <imbrandon> white, on?
[00:17] <white> oh don't tell me that you wanna read -private, it is not worth it
[00:18] <white> imbrandon: you mentioned the "rest"
[00:18] <imbrandon> white, nah, honestly the main reason i would become a DD would be 2 fold, access to porter machines and direct uploads, the politics dont intrest me much
[00:18] <white> well it comes with it :)
[00:19] <imbrandon> oh definately, just wouldent be a "reason"
[00:19] <white> and the porter machine thing ... well
[00:19] <bddebian> Yeah, don't you want to feel like you're better than everyone else?  That's a great motivator! :-)
[00:19] <white> it can take quite some time, until a package is installed in a particular chroot, if you do not have the right uplink to DSA
[00:20] <white> bddebian: unfortunately, people might start feeling that, when i look at some bug report communication :/
[00:20] <bddebian> Or hang out on #d-d
[00:21] <imbrandon> that and personaly it just feels right to contribute farther and farther upstream and almost every other project i'm involved with debian is the base , *Ubuntu , gnusolaris / indiana , Debian Live , pkg-kde etc
[00:21] <imbrandon> white, ^
[00:22] <joejaxx> bddebian: is that an open channel?
[00:22] <bddebian> joejaxx: Depends on your definition I guess
[00:22] <joejaxx> i remember i got flack for joining one of the debian channels
[00:22] <bddebian> That's probably it :-)
[00:22] <joejaxx> and they did not bother putting a passkey onit
[00:22] <azeem> joejaxx: everybody can join there
[00:22] <joejaxx> on it*
[00:23] <imbrandon> joejaxx, its open as long as you dont interupt kinda like #u-d
[00:23] <azeem> unless you're a DD or an NM, talking nonsense without a realname might not be tolerated
[00:23] <joejaxx> imbrandon: nope i just joined
[00:23] <white> debian-private is a closed channel, the rest should be open
[00:23] <joejaxx> no interrupting or anything
[00:23] <joejaxx> if you want a channel no public put a key on it
[00:23] <joejaxx> lol
[00:23] <azeem> joejaxx: maybe you tried here and not on oftc
[00:24] <joejaxx> non-public*
[00:24] <joejaxx> azeem: nope it was on oftc
[00:24] <azeem> *shrug*
[00:24] <joejaxx> i only join debian channels on iftc
[00:24] <joejaxx> oftc*
[00:24] <imbrandon> someone probably just had bad wheaties, because i'm not saying there arent DD's with a vendeta against Ubuntu but 99% i have talked to are normal humans too and even some do DD work on ubuntu
[00:24] <imbrandon> :P
[00:25] <joejaxx> :P
[00:25] <crimsun> right, that's the "people" thing that Colin mentioned at fosscamp
[00:25] <bddebian> I'm not bagging all DDs by any stretch.  We have several in Ubuntu
[00:25] <azeem> I'm pretty sure nobody got kicked off #d-d just for being a ubuntu guy without saying anything
[00:25] <imbrandon> just ike there are bad apples in ubuntu too, every community has their share
[00:25] <white> "normal humans" rotl :)
[00:25] <white> rotfl
[00:25] <joejaxx> haha
[00:25] <imbrandon> white, hahaha yea i laughed at that after i typed it
[00:26] <imbrandon> you know my point though :)
[00:26] <joejaxx> azeem: no i think it was an infrastructure channel or something
[00:26] <white> :)
[00:26] <joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
[00:26] <azeem> joejaxx: that's something else then
[00:27] <imbrandon> reminds me i gues i took #ubuntu-debian / #debian-ubuntu from oftc off my autojoin , hrm
[00:27] <bddebian> There is such a channel?
[00:27] <imbrandon> bddebian, yea
[00:27] <joejaxx> bddebian: i was just about to ask that
[00:27] <joejaxx> lol
[00:27] <imbrandon> i forget what way arround it is, but yea
[00:27] <Fujitsu> It's very small.
[00:28] <bddebian> I'm so surprised ;-)
[00:28] <imbrandon> ajmitch is there too iirc alot, its a small ~10 people group
[00:28]  * joejaxx tries to join
[00:30]  * bddebian is bitter atm :-(
[00:30] <imbrandon> bddebian ?
[00:30] <crimsun> too much Halloween candy, I think.
[00:30] <imbrandon> bddebian, i got my NES controller to work on a PS/2 port last night, finaly i have a use for those arn things
[00:30] <imbrandon> darn*
[00:30] <imbrandon> crimsun hahaha
[00:31] <bddebian> imbrandon: Nice.  No, just struggling getting things done over there.
[00:31] <imbrandon> only problem is i mapped the [b] button to capslock, lol so when i'm done playing i have to check the state of my capslock key
[00:32] <bddebian> Oh, I got Witcher today so I may disappear for any of Hardy ;-P
[00:32] <imbrandon> heh
[00:32] <imbrandon> no NWN2 for you
[00:32] <bddebian> Already have that, thought I want to get Mask of the Betrayer
[00:32] <bddebian> -t
[00:33] <imbrandon> having to use an old 200 mhz box stops most game playing cept for NES roms
[00:33] <bddebian> yeah, that would do it.   I need to untar the linux-source and therefore I want to add a "cd /usr/src/ && sudo tar -xjf linux-source.tar.bz2" (yet I do not know the sudo password for a pbuilder chroot
[00:36] <joejaxx> imbrandon: second hard drive a Seagate ?
[00:36] <somerville32> My computer is a 333mhz
[00:36] <Fujitsu> SWAT: Ewwww.
[00:36] <imbrandon> joejaxx, yea
[00:36] <joejaxx> SWAT: :\
[00:36] <white> SWAT: you don't want that
[00:36] <joejaxx> imbrandon: :D
[00:36] <imbrandon> joejaxx, 500GB segate
[00:37] <joejaxx> :D nice
[00:37] <SWAT> ok, what _do_ I want?
[00:37] <white> SWAT: you want to do stuff only in your source
[00:37]  * Fujitsu notes that his trusty PIII 800MHz router doesn't like running lintian over everything all that much, but sorta copes.
[00:37] <white> SWAT: you can depend on other packages or include the source
[00:38] <crimsun> `cd /usr/src/ && sudo tar -xjf linux-source.tar.bz2` sounds ominous
[00:38] <imbrandon> joejaxx, that 500GB is where my local mirror is ( among some ISO's and such )
[00:38] <joejaxx> imbrandon: nice
[00:38] <joejaxx> :)
[00:38] <SWAT> little background: I want to create my own ALSA package, since I want to do this the 'nice' way, since I have sound-issues with the repo-ALSA. afaik, ALSA requires the source-tree
[00:39] <crimsun> SWAT: err, /which/ ALSA package?
[00:39] <crimsun> kernelspace [driver]?  userspace?
[00:39] <SWAT> the driver should suffice. I just want to check if it's a downstream issue, or at least, what's going on.
[00:39] <crimsun> gutsy already ships 1.0.15rc3 in linux-backports-modules-$(uname -r)
[00:40] <imbrandon> SWAT, you might look into l-u-m and how it does it ( or l-b-m ) if your messing with kernel drivers
[00:40] <imbrandon> yea
[00:40] <Fujitsu> Is the driver in LUM yet?
[00:40] <crimsun> snd-hda-intel is in lum for gutsy
[00:40] <Fujitsu> If so, it should be easier and quicker.
[00:40] <Fujitsu> I think I saw a spec about moving the whole lot over there.
[00:40] <crimsun> for hardy, alsa-kernel is going into lum wholescale
[00:40] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[00:40] <crimsun> yeah, I spoke with Tim and Ben about it at UDS
[00:41] <crimsun> SWAT: if you wish to track hg, you can look at the alsa-driver source package
[00:41] <SWAT> I have heavy background noisy on my audigy2 and I tried all the tips of the ALSA people. I want to try if compile/installing ALSA from source will help, but ./configure&&make&&make install ALSA is a bit 'nasty' imho
[00:41] <crimsun> SWAT: it's fairly straightforward to modify the generated alsa-source binary package to contain the current hg tip
[00:42] <crimsun> you can then use alsa-source along with module-assistant to create a 'legit' alsa-drivers binary package
[00:43] <SWAT> I've already taken a look at the source packages from the repo. I'll take a look at the hg tip then
[00:43] <crimsun> you can't use the source package unmodified
[00:43] <crimsun> you'll have to checkout hg tip, copy the bits into the source package, regenerate the source package, and build the new alsa-source
[00:45] <crimsun> Does "background noise" refer to bus noise (presuming you mean a PCI version)?
[00:45] <SWAT> I really can't use an unmodified source? I'm trying to see if it's a downstream issue
[00:45] <crimsun> well, you have a choice if you want to do it the Debian/Ubuntu way
[00:46] <SWAT> PCI, yes, onboard sound disabled, no interrupts, even changed the PCI slots etc. (I did my homework)
[00:46] <crimsun> if you simply want hg tip, you don't need it
[00:47] <somerville32> When I attempt to build catfish in sid pbuilder, I get:
[00:47] <somerville32> Copying source file
[00:47] <somerville32>     -> copying [catfish_0.3-1_source.changes]
[00:47] <somerville32>     -> copying [./utils]
[00:47] <somerville32> cp: cannot stat `./utils': No such file or directory
[00:47] <crimsun> are you attempting to pbuild the .changes instead of the .dsc ?
[00:47] <SWAT> ok, thanks for your tips. I'll enough to do tomorrow then
[00:47] <somerville32> yes
[00:47] <somerville32> lol
[00:47] <crimsun> SWAT: also, check in your bios if you have pci masking options.
[00:47] <crimsun> somerville32: that would do it.
[00:50] <bddebian> heh
[00:50] <white> does ubuntu only allow source only uploads or also source+binary uploads?
[00:51] <bddebian> source only
[00:51] <bddebian> As it should be ;-)
[00:52] <imbrandon> yea source only , makes a cleaner archive imho
[00:53] <SWAT> since I started trying to build 'nice' packages (very recently), I noticed how hard some packages are to create (from source, like ALSA, firebird etc.). I've gained a deep respect for the MOTU's (you are doing a great job)
[00:53] <imbrandon> harder to bootstrap things, but thats only a corner case
[00:54] <imbrandon> SWAT, heh thanks, you should try and join the ranks someday seems you have the drive to doso
[00:54] <crimsun> (alsa's fun!)
[00:54] <somerville32> :]
[00:54] <crimsun> right, coffee shop's closing.  'night, folks.
[00:54] <imbrandon> gnight crimsun
[00:54] <somerville32> :(
[00:55] <somerville32> Night
[00:55] <bddebian> Gnight crimsun_
[00:55] <bddebian> Doh
[00:55] <SWAT> imbrandon, maybe, small steps for now. I will create some (private) packages from scratch first and then I'll look how that turns out.
[00:55] <imbrandon> :P
[00:56] <joejaxx> hello minghua
[00:56] <minghua> Hi joejaxx.
[00:57] <joejaxx> :)
[00:57] <somerville32> Woot
[00:58] <imbrandon> anyone here use epiphany ?
[01:00] <somerville32> Do I need to subscribe to debian-mentors to send my RFS?
[01:00] <joejaxx> imbrandon: i do/used\ to
[01:00] <SWAT> imbrandon, sometimes, why?
[01:00] <joejaxx> on debian unstable
[01:01] <imbrandon> how the hell can i stop it from keeping aq history in the addr bar
[01:01] <imbrandon> i looked everywhere
[01:02] <SWAT> I guess you've just found a new feature that you want
[01:02] <joejaxx> lol
[01:03] <imbrandon> ugh
[01:05] <somerville32> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=catfish :)
[01:05] <minghua> somerville32: No.  But please state you are not subscribed in the email if you aren't.
[01:05] <somerville32> Oops. too late. :/
[01:06] <somerville32> I misspelled the domain so I get a second chance.
[01:06] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I've used Epiphany forever... but aren't you a KDE person?
[01:06] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea, i'm just tinkering with some stuff
[01:06] <imbrandon> sides i still use FF in KDE
[01:06] <imbrandon> :P
[01:06] <nxvl> hi
[01:07]  * Fujitsu must try epiphany-webkit again soon.
[01:07] <bmk789_> imbrandon: http://bmk789.blogspot.com/   i borrowed your title/subtitle if you dont mind :P
[01:08] <imbrandon> bmk789 haha no i dont mind, i change them every few months
[01:08] <joejaxx> imbrandontoo: lol
[01:08] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[01:09] <somerville32> You might just give a link to that long e-mail instead of reposting the entire thing.
[01:09] <imbrandon> that might be a bit confusing
[01:09] <imbrandon> imbrandontoo, ^^
[01:10] <bmk789> good idea, ill make it link
[01:10] <imbrandon> bmk789, actualy thats kinda a cool nick, i wish i would have registed it now LOL
[01:10] <bmk789> lol
[01:11] <imbrandon> bmk789, just do me a favor and dont try to impoersonate me , if it becomes a problem i might not be so happy bout it :P
[01:11] <imbrandon> not that i think it wlll , just fyi
[01:11]  * joejaxx did the flwm merge and needs to see if stevenk is going to do it
[01:11] <bmk789> o no problem
[01:11] <joejaxx> s/the/s/g
[01:11] <joejaxx> skdflksdjflk
[01:11] <joejaxx> s/the/a/g
[01:12] <imbrandon> joejaxx, one word, PowerPC, kthxbi
[01:12] <imbrandon> :)
[01:12] <joejaxx> imbrandon: :P
[01:13] <imbrandon> in all serousness , need a machine to build the iso on ? its not powerfull by anymeans ( 333 w/96 mb ram ) but it will work in a pinch
[01:13] <joejaxx> nope :P bakery can build mutliarch :)
[01:13] <imbrandon> i really really want KDrive for it though
[01:13] <imbrandon> joejaxx, kk
[01:14] <imbrandon> joejaxx, arent you working on getting kdrive bins in the archive ?
[01:14] <Fujitsu> Morning, persia.
[01:15] <joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah i already have permission to fo it :)
[01:15] <persia> Good morning Fujitsu
[01:15] <joejaxx> imbrandon: i just have not had the time
[01:15] <imbrandon> i have tried but the X packages are trickier than the kernel ones
[01:15] <joejaxx> yeah
[01:15] <imbrandon> joejaxx, if there is anything i can help with the kdrive stuff lemme know, i've been contemplating that for 2 releases now
[01:15] <joejaxx> ok :)
[01:15] <Fujitsu> What's so good about KDrive?
[01:16] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, it runs a full blown X server in under 700KB memory and no config files
[01:16] <imbrandon> great for older systems
[01:16] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:16] <imbrandon> even conposit and such
[01:16] <Fujitsu> I didn't realise it was *that* light.
[01:16] <imbrandon> yea its TINY
[01:17] <LaserJock> my microwave probably takes more than that ;-)
[01:17] <imbrandon> heh
[01:17] <joejaxx> LaserJock: ! :D
[01:18] <joejaxx> LaserJock: how are you doing ? :D
[01:18] <pochu> Nafallo: bug 159659. :)
[01:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159659 in irssi "Merge with Debian unstable - new upstream release 0.8.12" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159659
[01:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You seem to be here rather frequently nowadays.
[01:18] <imbrandon> honestly i dont see why they dident use kdrive for bulletproof X
[01:19] <imbrandon> but thats neither here nor there
[01:19] <joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah
[01:19] <joejaxx> that would be interesting
[01:19] <Nafallo> pochu: what should I do with it? :-)
[01:19] <pochu> Any core-dev for sponsoring that? bug 159659. It's an easy one!
[01:19] <pochu> Nafallo: I'm afraid nothing, since you aren't a core-dev... are you?
[01:19] <pochu> Just to let you know :)
[01:19] <Nafallo> pochu: no, StevenK sponsored me :-)
[01:19] <Nafallo> pochu: ah. cheers :-)
[01:20] <pochu> StevenK: around? :)
[01:20] <imbrandon> so you need a sponsor or not for irssi ?
[01:20]  * Fujitsu wonders if he will be murdered for attempting to add a maintainer-is-not-quite-motu check to Lintian.
[01:20] <imbrandon> i'll look if StevenK hasent already
[01:20] <pochu> imbrandon: yes, I do :)
[01:20] <kdubois> i need a sponsor!
[01:20] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
[01:20] <persia> Fujitsu: Just so it
[01:20] <pochu> imbrandon: thanks. And he hasn't. I've reported the bug a minute ago :)
[01:20] <jdong> Fujitsu: doesn't that go with the whole oh-god-jdong-touched-the-package check?
[01:20] <joejaxx> jdong: ! :(
[01:20] <imbrandon> pochu / Nafallo , ok i'll look at it now
[01:20] <joejaxx> jdong: you disappointed us
[01:21] <joejaxx> :(
[01:21] <jdong> joejaxx: aaahhh
[01:21] <Nafallo> imbrandon: cheers mate :-)
[01:21] <jdong> joejaxx: sorry, it's been a hellish day
[01:21] <persia> kdubois: Have you subscribed a sponsorship team to your patch?
[01:21] <pochu> Thank you imbrandon.
[01:21] <jdong> joejaxx: been sleeping for the whole day until now
[01:21] <joejaxx> jdong: lol
[01:21] <pochu> imbrandon: just fyi, I'm using it atm... works fine :)
[01:21] <jdong> joejaxx: grossly underestimated how long a 5-page homework assignment should've taken
[01:21]  * Nafallo looks at the diff as well fwiw
[01:22] <joejaxx> jdong: oh wow
[01:22] <kdubois> persia: no, i mean i'm just trying to get started with motu and such, and need general guidance. I can code or bughunt....
[01:22] <persia> kdubois: Ah.  In that case, you don't need a sponsor yet, you just need some work :)
[01:23] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: shhhh
[01:24] <joejaxx> lol
[01:24] <kdubois> persia: yeah, more or less. what should i do to get started? i'd like to start on a problem thats challenging enough, but easy enough for me to do....
[01:24] <persia> kdubois: There are three kinds of work I usually recommend for new people: 1) Bug Triage, 2) Debugging Crashes, and 3) Fixing broken packaging.  Do any of those interest you?
[01:24] <Nafallo> imbrandon, pochu: diff.gz looked fine to me.
[01:24] <pochu> 02:23 [Freenode] Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] requested CTCP VERSION from pochu:
[01:24] <pochu> Nafallo: I said the truth! :-)
[01:24] <imbrandon> Nafallo, yea here too, just doing a quick testbuild ( no offence ) and testing
[01:25] <imbrandon> pochu, ^^
[01:25] <imbrandon> then i'll upload it
[01:25] <kdubois> debugging crashes sounds the best
[01:25] <pochu> cool :)
[01:26] <Nafallo> imbrandon: if you hadn't, you would've done wrong :-)
[01:26] <persia> kdubois: OK.  We have a tool called apport that helps users to file bugs when something crashes.  These bugs usually have a stacktrace attached, to help dig through the code, and find the problem.
[01:27] <Fujitsu> persia: They're also mostly private.
[01:27] <kdubois> persia: where can i get these stack traces?
[01:27] <persia> Fujitsu: Not all, and there's not a few people who can help make them public.
[01:29] <persia> kdubois: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=apport-bug is a good list with which to start.  I recommend picking a package that you use, and starting with a universe package.
[01:29] <persia> kdubois: Also, would you mind telling me how many bugs you see on that list?  It may be that making them non-private is something that more people need to do currently.
[01:29]  * minghua didn't notice anyone working on making crash bugs public in the packages he's interested in.
[01:30] <imbrandon> Nafallo / pochu, ok seems good to go, bug updated
[01:30]  * Fujitsu used to go through recent ones and unprivatise them, but just hasn't had the time of late.
[01:30] <kdubois> persia: i can see 504
[01:30] <bddebian> Heya persia
[01:30] <bddebian> persia: Are you on Debian devel games ML ?
[01:30] <Nafallo> pochu: *hint* wait until it's built before you mail upstream :-)
[01:31] <persia> kdubois: OK.  If you run out, complain in #ubutntu-bugs (or here), and we'll get you some more :)
[01:31] <Nafallo> pochu: build and released actually ;-)
[01:31] <pochu> Nafallo: I'll do. And I'll CC you too :-)
[01:31] <Nafallo> pochu: cheers mate :-)
[01:31] <persia> kdubois: Also, if you pick one, and need some help in the debugging process, please ask: I'm happy to provide a walkthrough.
[01:31] <Nafallo> damnit!
[01:31] <Nafallo> I'm getting all english quickly :-P
[01:31] <pochu> persia: #ubutntu-bugs? :)
[01:32] <persia> bddebian: One of them.  I need to sort my filtering system, and join the other.
[01:32] <kdubois> persia: alright, will do. i think i'll start on one tomorrow.. If i were to find a bug in say, vlc or something, how do we get that fixed? do we talk to the vlc guys and have them fix it in their code base, or do we apply patches to whats in out repo's?
[01:33] <imbrandon> kdubois, somethimes both :P
[01:34] <persia> kdubois: Generally, I work through the stacktrace, and make a patch which fixes the problem, after testing.  It's nice to send the patch upstream to help everyone else.  It's also nice to package the patch for a new revision of the package, and seek sponsorship to get Ubuntu fixed sooner.
[01:35] <imbrandon> ok i'm off for some beers with some friends, ttyl
[01:36] <pochu> imbrandon: have fun, and thanks again :)
[01:40] <joejaxx> superm1: :)
[01:40] <superm1> hey joejaxx
[01:40] <joejaxx> hello
[01:40] <superm1> didn't see you down for free food and such?
[01:40] <superm1> were you around?
[01:40] <joejaxx> yes but only briefly at the beginning
[01:40] <superm1> ah that would explain it
[01:41] <joejaxx> yeah
[01:42] <superm1> i didnt get as many people to sign my key as i should have while i was here :(
[01:42] <joejaxx> i tend to have nothing to do at those sort of things :P
[01:42] <superm1> oh well.
[01:42] <joejaxx> well atleast you have some :)
[01:42] <joejaxx> i have zero
[01:42] <joejaxx> :)
[01:42] <superm1> they weren't checking id's or anything..... so you could have joined :)
[01:43] <joejaxx> superm1: i mean socially :P
[01:43] <joejaxx> i only know a small amount of people in ubuntu
[01:43] <joejaxx> lol
[01:43] <joejaxx> and none of them were there
[01:43] <somerville32> lol
[01:44] <joejaxx> and i rather not start a random conversation either lol it seems pointless and folly
[01:44] <superm1> oh i ran into several random people that i met down there
[01:45] <superm1> for a first time
[01:45] <joejaxx> yeah i do not do well with randon encounters lol
[01:46] <cyberix> Please rereview pq. Everything should be ok now. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
[01:49] <pochu> Good night motuland!
[02:28] <white> i am curious, are there many cases, where there is an FTBFS in ubuntu?
[02:29] <white> one argument for debian do disable source-only uploads was that people do not test the builds beforehand
[02:29] <white> if that is true, it would of course put more workload on the buildd maintainer due to more bugs (or other people to fill FTBFS bugs)
[02:30] <white> if not, source-only uploads would of course be nice to have
[02:30] <Nafallo> script those bugs?
[02:30] <bddebian> white: I would guess that there are fewer but we do have them unfortunately
[02:30] <bddebian> Of course maybe they are all the syncs from Debian ;-P
[02:30] <white> :)
[02:31] <white> Nafallo: sure, but you want someone to investigate it and give some more information, then only a failed build log
[02:31] <Nafallo> white: depends on what's wrong I guess.
[02:31] <bddebian> OK damnit, UlstraStar-ng is finding boost/thread/thread.hpp but fails to find boost/ptr_container/ptr_map.hpp. The darn file is there, wtf?
[02:33] <persia> white: One thing we're trying to organise for this cycle is to have LP provide a list of all current FTBFS packages, so that developers could look at the list, and fix a few.  Right now, we're a little blind as to what FTBFS today vs. what FTBFS at one point in the past.
[02:34] <white> persia: is there a overview for build logs, like debian has linked form the PS site?
[02:34] <bddebian> LP has them
[02:35] <persia> white: There's http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds, and you can check logs by build status, but it's not quite there yet.
[02:35] <Fujitsu> white: LP has every build log ever, linked from the package page.
[02:38] <white> ah ok
[02:38] <Fujitsu> ... except for if something is given-back, then the old log is erased.
[02:39] <bddebian> Ah ha, libboost-dev build-deps are fsck'd
[02:39] <Fujitsu> bddebian: As normal.
[02:39] <bddebian> Fujitsu: I've never dealt with them before
[02:41] <bddebian> Damnit, 1.1a patch for The Witcher is 113Mb :-(
[02:41] <superm1> 113Mb???
[02:41] <superm1> egads
[02:41] <bddebian> s'ok, it's only about a 10min download :)
[02:42] <bddebian> OMFG:  boost/program_options.hpp... no
[02:43] <joejaxx> lol
[02:45] <bddebian> boost/program_options.hpp...
[02:45]  * bddebian smacks himself in the head with his laptop
[02:46] <persia> bddebian: Be careful: you might hurt your laptop :P
[02:47] <bddebian> Ouch :'-(
[02:47] <bddebian> :-)
[02:47] <joejaxx> :)
[03:01] <bddebian> Uh oh, The Witcher starteth..
[03:02] <joejaxx> bddebian: is that a good game
[03:02] <joejaxx> ?
[03:03] <bddebian> You have got to watch the trailer.  It is one of the coolest trailers for a video game I've ever seen
[03:12] <pwnguin> psh
[03:12] <pwnguin> i'll just wait for the Witchest
[03:12] <joejaxx> pwnguin: lol
[03:12] <bddebian> heh
[03:12] <pwnguin> alternatively, im thinking I'll have to have someone REVU this package i've got
[03:13] <pwnguin> cartoon nethack
[03:13] <pwnguin> (remember egoboo?)
[03:13] <bddebian> Damn, how many versions of nethack can there possibly be?
[03:13] <pwnguin> ok
[03:13] <pwnguin> cartoon diablo
[03:14] <joejaxx> lolo
[03:14] <persia> bddebian: Even nethack.org is a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork (if I remember correctly).
[03:15] <pwnguin> http://youtube.com/watch?v=OxlEPsfrKJ8
[03:16] <Burgundavia> pwnguin: egoboo has been resurrected
[03:16]  * persia cheers
[03:16] <pwnguin> Burgundavia: well, nobody's packaged this
[03:16] <pwnguin> Burgundavia: understandably, because nobody's quite sure htf to build it
[03:17] <bddebian> hehe
[03:17] <Burgundavia> isn't soulfu non-free?
[03:17] <pwnguin> theres an itp
[03:18] <pwnguin> and the liscense claims GPL
[03:18] <pwnguin> the data i donno about
[03:19] <pwnguin> theres a sourceforge project
[03:19] <Burgundavia> right, soulfu just became free
[03:19] <Burgundavia> it didn't used to be
[03:19] <pwnguin> well then
[03:19] <pwnguin> huzza
[03:20] <pwnguin> a bit CPU intensive
[03:20] <bddebian> There's an ITP or RFP?
[03:20] <pwnguin> itp
[03:20] <bddebian> hmm
[03:20] <pwnguin> its been like 60 days
[03:20] <Fujitsu> A bit long.
[03:21] <bddebian> I've got enough broken games in the games team svn to worry about for the moment :-(
[03:21] <pwnguin> and the ITP is debain games
[03:21] <bddebian> hah
[03:21] <pwnguin> i didnt know a team could ITP without having someone in particular
[03:21] <Burgundavia> team maintenance is a good thing
[03:21] <pwnguin> sure
[03:21] <bddebian> Somewhat
[03:22] <bddebian> It carries it's own issue
[03:22] <bddebian> +s
[03:22] <pwnguin> as long as the team actually maintains it
[03:22] <pwnguin> instead of assuming someone else will do the job
[03:22] <bddebian> Hmm, I don't see it in our svn yet
[03:22]  * persia votes for a bddebian-special package in SVN
[03:23] <bddebian> hah
[03:23] <pwnguin> Burgundavia: do you have an authorative source on the "becoming free" part?
[03:23] <pwnguin> the source code appears GPL'd but im not sure about the data
[03:24] <Burgundavia> the soulfu forums
[03:26] <pwnguin> the source is a bit strange. i think soulfu.c #includes all the other code
[03:26] <pwnguin> instead of the more usual linking .o files
[03:27] <pwnguin> and apparently it used an odd libjpeg
[03:41] <bddebian> I'll try to check it out if I get some time soon
[03:42]  * bddebian wants to get updated scorched3d in
[03:43] <persia> bddebian: Thank you :)
[03:47] <bddebian> persia: Well don't thank me yet, I'm not having much luck getting a hold of people :-(
[03:48] <LaserJock> dang it, PPA needs download statistics
[03:48] <persia> LaserJock: Umm..  **Ubuntu archive systems** need download statistics
[03:48] <LaserJock> pfft
[03:49] <LaserJock> who cares about Ubuntu?   If you don't pass a revision, svn revert defaults to the last checkout / update
[03:51] <persia> bddebian: So, if you want a newer version to overwrite local changes, use `svn update .; svn revert path/to/badfile`
[03:51] <bddebian> I can't just wipe the local files and svn update?
[03:52] <persia> bddebian: wiping the local files is considered a change.  It's no different than editing them from a revision control perspective.
[03:52] <bddebian> grr, OK, thx
[03:53] <bddebian> Hmm, I thought rpath was a no-no ?
[03:54] <persia> bddebian: It's not preferred, but there are lots of leftovers.  Making it work without is better.
[03:56] <ScottK> bddebian: If you want to wipe it out, you need to wipe out the .svn dir in the parent directory and that can get all confusing.  Revert is better.
[03:58] <persia> ScottK: At that point isn't it better to just `cd ..; rm -rf workspace; mkdir workspace; cd workspace; svn co svn://my.project.url/trunk` ?
[03:58] <bddebian> persia: Aye it worked, thanks
[03:58] <ScottK> persia: Pretty much.
[03:59] <ScottK> persia: Except if you've got a checkout of the entire Debian Python Modules Team svn and you really don't want to do that one over....
[04:00] <persia> ScottK: Ah.  Is svn not smart enough to notice that if you delete a subdirectory (e.g. trunk/myproject/example), recreate it, and svn co .../trunk/myproject/example that it all belongs in the same place?
[04:02] <ScottK> persia: IIRC the time I had to do that, I deleted the .svn for the parent and then did an svn add for it followed by rechecking out the module I'd borked.
[04:03]  * persia decides that svn state management is sufficiently opaque that `svn revert` is always the right solution.
[04:18] <manchicken> Anybody here do much work on nm-applet's openvpn interface?  It exists under universe/net
[04:26] <jdong> Nafallo: siretart: any of you MOTU-media folk wanna talk syncing x264 from marillat? :)
[04:26] <jdong> a LOT of really nice performance increases since our 6+month-old sync
[04:32] <TheMuso_Boston> Ok folks. Unless I see you tomorrow some time, I'll see you online once I return to Australia.
[04:37] <s1024kb> persia: Hi!
[04:38] <persia> s1024kb: Good day
[04:38] <s1024kb> persia: shall i say "Good morning" or "Good afternoon" to you?
[04:39] <persia> s1024kb: Good afternoon: it's about an hour later here than there.
[04:40] <s1024kb> persia: Oh, i see. :) I just upgraded my Ubuntu to 7.10 last night.
[04:40] <persia> s1024kb: Great.  I hope it continues to work as well for you.
[04:41] <s1024kb> persia: shall we developers keep our Ubuntu most updated to keep up with the pace of others?
[04:42] <persia> s1024kb: Actually, I believe that having different developers on each supported release is best.  If no developer is running 6.06LTS, it becomes difficult to support it properly.  We need a mix of installations to best find and close all the bugs.
[04:43] <s1024kb> persia: did you mean a mixed installation in the same computer? Can do?
[04:45] <persia> s1024kb: Some people dual-boot.  I was more speaking of a mixed set of installations for all developers.
[04:47] <s1024kb> persia: I understand.
[04:48] <s1024kb> persia: so you have been a MOTU for a long time already?
[04:49] <persia> s1024kb: Not really.  I only became MOTU about six months ago.  Previously I was a Contributor for a long time.
[04:50] <s1024kb> persia: what a Contributor is doing? Can i be a Contributor too?
[04:51] <pwnguin> contributers are people who do work but dont have upload privledges. instead an MOTU is supposed to review the work
[04:52] <persia> s1024kb: Certainly.  Becoming a Contributor is easy: just start doing stuff :)
[04:52] <s1024kb> pwnguin: ok, understand. so i should do something, and then hand them to one of the MOTUs to review them?
[04:53] <pwnguin> basically, yea. there's some tools to make this easier, and a schedule that makes it more likely to get attention if you follow it
[04:53] <s1024kb> persia: Still studying... wish that i can start earlier... all the books my teacher recommended me to read are almost finished... English is difficult to me.
[04:54] <persia> s1024kb: Contributors usually start with small patches, but as skills develop can implement new features, handle library transitions, coordinate teams to accomplish goals, and even change how we do things (e.g. backports was started by a Contributor)
[04:54] <s1024kb> pwnguin: thank you for explaining it to me.
[04:54] <pwnguin> he
[04:54] <pwnguin> s1024kb: pay attention to persia more. he knows more than I
[04:55] <s1024kb> pwnguin: actually i take every contributor as my teacher, i hope to learn more from you.
[04:56] <s1024kb> freeflying: hi! Nice to meet you here!
[04:58] <s1024kb> persia: recently i am looking for a simple example to follow - i believe that when i can do a whole thing, no matter how simple it will be, i can understand more.
[04:58] <freeflying> s1024kb: hi
[04:58] <pwnguin> there is a package called hello-world
[04:58] <pwnguin> the Ubuntu Packaging guide describes it in detail
[04:58] <persia> s1024kb: Have you looked through https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
[04:59] <s1024kb> pwnguin: yes, i have it now. but i was stopped in the last steps... i don't know if i should create the 4 important files manually.
[05:00] <pwnguin> s1024kb: which 4?
[05:01] <s1024kb> pwnguin: for example, postinst and prerm
[05:02] <pwnguin> they dont exist any more in hello, do they?
[05:02] <s1024kb> persia: yes, i see a lot of bugs there, but don't know how to do... shall i download one of the packages, build and install it, run it, modified it and so on?
[05:03] <persia> s1024kb: Yes, although first make sure that the bug is not already assigned, and assign yourself to the bug.  When you get a fix, prepare a patch, and submit a debdiff.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing has some further hints
[05:03] <s1024kb> pwnguin: that's what confused me... so i can already build the package without making any change to it?
[05:04] <pwnguin> s1024kb: look at the changelog for the finished package
[05:04] <pwnguin> its no longer needed -- the documentation is just broke i think
[05:05]  * persia points out that a documentation fix tends to be an easy patch to develop
[05:05] <s1024kb> pwnguin: i will read the packing guide carefully again, hope to make a big step forward this weekend
[05:06] <pwnguin> s1024kb: sure. once you feel comfortable with it, then start looking at the bitesize list persia mentioned. dont start with big stuff, cuz just going through the process itself is a bit of work to learn
[05:08] <s1024kb> pwnguin: okay, thanks. sometimes i found that i am using a mind of a Windows user to understand Linux... yesterday i modified so packages of Delphi in Windows, i wish that was the same concept of our bug fixing here in Ubuntu.
[05:08] <pwnguin> im not familiar with delpha
[05:08] <pwnguin> delphi
[05:09] <pwnguin> so packages == translation?
[05:09] <s1024kb> pwnguin: yes. sorry, i meant some packages
[05:09] <persia> s1024kb: Perhaps it is, but you'll do better to explain the specific modification methods, so we can share thoughts on possible differences.
[05:10] <s1024kb> pwnguin: some of our colleagues need to use some controls, they are in the packages, but no longer work in Delphi 2007. I modified them, repacked them and install them again.
[05:11] <pwnguin> s1024kb: same thing happens here
[05:11] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[05:11] <pwnguin> but its helpful to know how a package is constructed first
[05:11] <pwnguin> the difference is that instead of modifying a binary (repacked?) you can modify the source
[05:12] <pwnguin> but since Univese will be given to lots of people, some peer review and quality control is a good idea
[05:13] <s1024kb> i had been developing Delphi components (VCL) in the past, so i quite understand how to make a VCL package. Yesterday when i was modifying the package, i thought - will it be the same in Ubuntu?
[05:14] <pwnguin> very similar
[05:14] <pwnguin> you grab the source package, modify it, build and test it, then push the source package back out to the community
[05:14] <s1024kb> pwnguin: now i understand more after learning for you and persia. I am happy that i understand a little bit more today.
[05:15] <pwnguin> the open source community tends to communicate these sorts of changes in patches (diffs)
[05:15] <s1024kb> thank you my friends. gotta go now because i must switch back to WinXP for my works... sigh... thank you very much and bye.
[05:30] <s1024kb> persia: hi, i am here again, from Windows (though i don't want to...)
[05:30] <s1024kb> pwnguin: hello again...
[05:30] <pwnguin> hi
[05:31] <s1024kb> pwnguin:i am happy to see you again...
[05:31] <s1024kb> pwnguin: now i am using Xchat.
[05:32] <pwnguin> neat
[05:33] <s1024kb> pwnguin: are you a programmer too?
[05:33] <pwnguin> yes
[05:34] <pwnguin> but not delphi
[05:34] <s1024kb> pwnguin: c++? a Linux programmer?
[05:34] <pwnguin> c/c++, java, whatevre. linux, embedded systems mostly
[05:35] <s1024kb> :-) embedded systems is interesting. I write single chip programmes too.
[05:36] <s1024kb> pwnguin: i guess that most of the contributors are programmers?
[05:37] <pwnguin> mostly. though i hear a few core developers can't code
[05:37] <s1024kb> pwnguin: Oh my God, hard to believe it. But how they work as core developers?
[05:38] <persia> s1024kb: They are very active in documentation, image improvements, packing adjustments, etc.
[05:40] <s1024kb> persia: haha, so i feel kind of eased now... i understand that many people are experienced in programming, i am not very top actually
[05:42] <pwnguin> no worries. many people feel MOTU is a place where people can learn through doing.
[05:42] <pwnguin> i'd personally hope that core developers would be... more capable, as we already have Membership for non development
[05:43] <s1024kb> pwnguin: the first time i joined MOTU i was kind of nervous...
[05:43] <pwnguin> i dont think that phrase means what you think it does
[05:43] <pwnguin> "joined MOTU"
[05:43] <s1024kb> pwnguin: actually i have only one goal in my life - to become a top Linux programmer
[05:44] <pwnguin> you need two goals then
[05:44] <s1024kb> which 2?
[05:44] <pwnguin> 1) to become a top linux programmer
[05:44] <pwnguin> 2) some other personal goal
[05:45] <s1024kb> pwnguin: personal goal... i had never thought of it. living a normal life as others is okay to me
[05:46] <pwnguin> s1024kb: i mostly mean software
[05:46] <s1024kb> pwnguin: ... still don't understand...
[05:46] <pwnguin> as in, you can be a great linux programmer, but its very hard to do so without proper motivation
[05:47] <s1024kb> pwnguin: Oh i see now. the motivation is - i love Ubuntu, i guess, at least at the moment
[05:47] <pwnguin> there's spectators, who wish to be great, and then theres people with specific goals that require them to be experts
[05:47] <pwnguin> for example, you need working laptop suspend
[05:48] <pwnguin> linus torvalds didn't set out to be the world's greatest linux programmer ;)
[05:49] <s1024kb> pwnguin: i wish that i can change my job next year once i learn Linux better, i wish to work under the Linux OS in my next job, not being a Win programmer here like now
[05:50] <persia> s1024kb: That's an achievable goal.  I'd recommend building a portfolio of work you've done to improve some specific aspect of linux, and look for a job doing the thing you've already been doing.
[05:50] <s1024kb> pwnguin: maybe i am superficial...
[05:51] <pwnguin> s1024kb: i dont think so. you just need to find a focus. what's wrong with linux today?
[05:52] <s1024kb> pwnguin: :-) a focus...
[05:52] <pwnguin> well, perhaps you'll find some motivation by spending time with MOTU ;)
[05:53] <s1024kb> persia: i guess that a person should stick to what he/she wants to do... so i decide to do the things i love, so that i can concentrate to my goal.
[05:54] <persia> s1024kb: Exactly.
[05:54] <s1024kb> pwnguin: Yes, :-)
[05:55] <s1024kb> persia: yesterday i had browsed the job market from the internet, i found some jobs here in my city are about Linux programming... just as what i want. Hope to hop soon...
[05:56] <pwnguin> where do you live?
[05:56] <s1024kb> Guangzhou, China
[05:56] <pwnguin> interesting
[05:56] <s1024kb> and you?
[05:56] <pwnguin> manhattan kansas
[05:56] <pwnguin> USA
[05:57] <s1024kb> persia: and you? where do you live?
[05:57] <persia> Tokyo
[05:57] <pwnguin> orly
[05:58] <s1024kb> but here we seem to be together in the same city... thanks for the internet to bring us together
[05:58]  * pwnguin tasks persia with finding Kenta Cho and forcing him to accept patches upstream ;)
[05:58] <s1024kb> pwnguin: haha
[05:58] <persia> pwnguin: Actually, he lives in the same town as I ("Tokyo" maps well to "State" for the US).  What do we need from him?
[05:59] <pwnguin> well, nothing really
[05:59]  * persia allows Cho-san to relax and develop more fun games while bored
[05:59] <pwnguin> he's stated that he has no interest in maintaining the games hes released, and the internet has basically routed around that already
[05:59] <s1024kb> haha my friends, happy to have you all here...
[06:00] <pwnguin> tokyo isn't a state :P
[06:00] <pwnguin> anymore than LA is a state
[06:01] <s1024kb> i guess that most of you are boys? i am not... haha
[06:01] <persia> pwnguin: No, it's a "prefecture", consisting of about 23 "wards", 15 "cities", and a few "villages" (for approximate translations)
[06:02] <pwnguin> i'd imagine metropolean area is also suitable
[06:02] <persia> pwnguin: Well, LA doesn't have an independent government that is only answerable to the federal government: you've skipped sacramento.  There is a "Toyko Metropolitan District" within Tokyo that more closely maps to LA.
[06:03] <persia> ("Tokyo Metropolitan District" includes all the "wards", but none of the "cities" or "villages")
[06:05] <persia> pwnguin: It is perhaps confusing: to map to LA again, it is as if "Baldwin Park" was in "California" county, in the state of "California"
[06:05] <pwnguin> politics is wierd
[06:05] <freeflying> s1024kb: you mean you are a girl :P
[06:05] <pwnguin> im not about to call NYC a state even though it rivals the budget of one
[06:06] <s1024kb> freeflying: haha, that's why i was kind of nervous... i was afraid that i could not do as good as what the boys are doing...
[06:07] <pwnguin> heh
[06:07] <persia> pwnguin: Well, no, but that's actually a little closer, in that "New York" state belongs to "New York" city, and the Burough Mayors have significant powers.  On the other hand, in Tokyo, the "state" capitol is in the "City" capitol, and there's not really a "mayor" of the metropolitan district: that is directly adminitered by the prefecture (whereas outlying cities do have "mayor"s).
[06:07] <pwnguin> you'd have a harder time on IRC convincing people you were female than intelligent, I think
[06:07] <freeflying> s1024kb: why not
[06:08] <s1024kb> freeflying: ... because i am really not very good at programming, i am a normal programmer in a normal company - though i thought that i am almost the best here in my department...
[06:08] <minghua> Wow, a Chinese lady in this channel.  Welcome s1024kb.
[06:09] <s1024kb> minghua: thanks. nice to meet you.
[06:09] <s1024kb> minghua: your name seems to be a Chinese name?
[06:09] <freeflying> s1024kb: you got it :)
[06:09] <pwnguin> s1024kb: the best way to learn is to read what other people have done, and discover what they did wrong. MOTU definately comes aross what other people did, and did wrongly ^_^
[06:10] <minghua> s1024kb: Yes, I'm a Chinese.  Althoug I'm living in US now.
[06:10] <s1024kb> ^_^ i feel here a warm world... i like it.
[06:12] <s1024kb> i feel kind of guilty these days because i had spent a very long time to understand only a little bit thing, and the other problems is my current situation does not allow me to make faster progress...
[06:22] <DarkMageZ> hey, if i want to get a package into multiverse how do i go about it? the ubuntu wiki page says revu is for universe. so i presume that means no multiverse packages there?
[06:22] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Processes for multiverse and largely identical to those for universe.
[06:22] <Fujitsu> Including REVU.
[06:23] <DarkMageZ> ok, but should i upload my package for multiverse to revu? or is there another place for multiverse packages?
[06:23] <persia> DarkMageZ: The same place, but there'll be lots of pressure to get it free unless there is a well documented use case that requires it.
[06:25] <DarkMageZ> persia, it's opensource. but debian decided to strip it out case it doesn't meet their dfsg. the legal restriction on it iirc is no commerical use.
[06:26] <persia> DarkMageZ: OK.  You've passed the basic legal test.  Now, why should it be included?  Is there not a better free solution?
[06:26] <DarkMageZ> persia, it's a music visualization. the "better free alternative" is debateable :)
[06:27] <persia> DarkMageZ: That makes it tricky.  It might get in, but it's not likely to get the attention that something for universe would.
[06:28] <DarkMageZ> wait, correction. "intended only for non-profit and hobbyist use and explicit permission to use it otherwise is required"
[06:28] <minghua> Is "non-commercial" okay for multiverse?
[06:28] <persia> DarkMageZ: Part of why I warn you is that I don't want to see another case of one of your patches getting delayed forever: you are skilled at what you do, but seem to have poor luck with policies and guidelines :)
[06:28] <pwnguin> hmm, i think thats too restrictive even for ubuntu...
[06:28] <minghua> Hmm, I suppose it is, as we don't ship multiverse.
[06:29] <minghua> It's perhaps a harder case for restricted, though.
[06:29] <persia> minghua: Multiverse doesn't ship on DVD, and there are existing examples, but the greater plan is for multiverse to go away
[06:29] <pwnguin> noncommercial licenses to the code i can understand
[06:29] <pwnguin> but to the binaries?
[06:30] <pwnguin> persia: is multiverse dissapering before or after world domination?
[06:30] <persia> pwnguin: It'd be extra hard to ship restricted-source multiverse, even with free binaries.
[06:30] <persia> pwnguin: Not relevant.  Debian has world domination as a goal (IIRC), whereas Ubuntu just ships software.
[06:31] <pwnguin> im just saying, where in the grand scheme of things is this plan to remove multiverse?
[06:31] <minghua> persia: Right.  I thought whether we ship it or not is important, too.
[06:31] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: When we no longer need non-free software, presumably.
[06:31] <persia> pwnguin: It's more of a loose goal.  When there are no use cases that require multiverse, life gets easier for MOTU
[06:31] <pwnguin> Fujitsu: ah, so world domination
[06:32] <pwnguin> persia: until a use case pops up again that does require multiverse ...
[06:33] <persia> pwnguin: Maybe.  I suspect if we ever purge multiverse, we'll not take it on again lightly.  "Edge Case"
[06:33] <Fujitsu> There are also uses for multiverse that aren't just about non-freeness - parts of mplayer are likely patent-encumbered, so need to be in multiverse.
[06:34] <Fujitsu> (or we could rip out mencoder and MPEG4 support like Debian did, but people would murder us quickly)
[06:34] <pwnguin> psh
[06:34] <pwnguin> mp4 playback is in gst
[06:34] <pwnguin> or is it just encoding that patented?
[06:34] <persia> Fujitsu: That's just time for now.  In the future, it may be that this a sufficiency of good codecs that "I want to play videos" isn't as likely to require multiverse/restricted
[06:35] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: Good question.
[06:37] <pwnguin> hmm. surely theres a place to find a list of all packages in multiverse
[06:38] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: You can look through pool/multiverse on a mirror, or... look through a Packages file, probably.
[06:38] <Fujitsu> Or maybe something on packages.ubuntu.com
[06:38] <Fujitsu> But not LP.
[06:40] <persia> pwnguin: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/multiverse/source/Sources.gz
[06:42] <pwnguin> angband
[06:47] <pwnguin> some of this i dont see getting fixed in my lifetime
[06:48] <persia> pwnguin: Well, it's a goal.  It might take a while :)
[06:50] <pwnguin> i mean, MAME is comparable in scope to the linux kernel
[06:54] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[06:56] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
[06:57] <minghua> persia: Depends how long "a while" is, I suppose.
[06:57]  * minghua is pessimistic.
[06:58] <persia> minghua: Depends?  How?  While "a while" is completely unbounded, I'm not sure that it affects either the goal, or the ease of adding to the burden.
[06:58] <minghua> And hello ajmitch and Hobbsee.
[06:59] <Hobbsee> hiya minghua, persia
[06:59] <persia> Good afternoon Hobbsee
[06:59]  * Hobbsee wonders what this discussion is on
[06:59] <minghua> persia: What I meant to say is, it's going to take much more than "a while" IMHO.  More than my lifetime, for example.
[06:59] <persia> Hobbsee: multiverse
[07:00] <persia> minghua: Nah.  Your lifetime is insignificant compared to the span of time that may be encompassed by "a while".
[07:01] <Hobbsee> persia: ahhh
[07:02] <DarkMageZ> anyone up for doing a revu? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=505 (not related to my multiverse question)
[07:03] <persia> DarkMageZ: Sure.
[07:03] <minghua> persia: See?  That's why I say it depends.  I happen to think my lifespan is longer than a while.  I'm not really into buddhism.
[07:04] <white> well everyone has goals, at the end of my life, i might see the full release of hurd :)
[07:05] <persia> minghua: Ah.  nomenclature by philosophy.  Not a distinction worth arguing: I believe it's not more than a dozen years until everything there is obsolete, considered an "edge case", or has become cruft from bitrot.
[07:06] <minghua> Gah.  I need my dictionary again.
[07:06] <pwnguin> xmame isnt going to dissappear
[07:06] <pwnguin> nothing even comes close to duplicating what it does
[07:06] <pwnguin> its already like 10 years old
[07:06] <persia> white: I recently has the opportunity to hear RMS speak about that: apparently there's not currently even a goal to release
[07:06] <DarkMageZ> pwnguin, the scope of the project will expand to cover the ps3 tho :P
[07:06] <pwnguin> na
[07:06] <pwnguin> its not arcade hardware
[07:07] <pwnguin> yet
[07:07] <DarkMageZ> true
[07:07] <white> persia: it would surpise me ;)
[07:07] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:07] <persia> pwnguin: Sure, there's no replacement currently.  On the other hand, someone may write a free mutiple architecture emulator that can handle all those architectures, and has sufficient free content that it no longer matters.
[07:07] <pwnguin> persia: its free enough for almost everyone
[07:07] <persia> pwnguin: I forget the MAME problem.  Wasn't it a lack of free ROMs?
[07:08] <pwnguin> no
[07:08] <minghua> persia: Right, no point arguing about terminology.  Maybe a dozen years is a good estimate.  Anyway, I'd better not waste your time that you could use to review REVU packages. :-)
[07:08] <pwnguin> noncommercial
[07:08] <pwnguin> and some other semi goofy restrictions
[07:08] <pwnguin> like
[07:08] <pwnguin> "you must distribute docs"
[07:09] <minghua> i.e., invariant sections?
[07:09] <pwnguin> its in the license
[07:10] <persia> pwnguin: Ah.  licensing.  I still suspect one could implement alternate hardware emulators using a e.g. qemu framework, if one wanted.  This would be handy for those wanting to sell a kit-box to turn any computer into an arcade console.
[07:10] <pwnguin> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/x/xmame/xmame_0.106-2/xmame-common.copyright
[07:11] <pwnguin>    - Every X-Mame executable distribution MUST include AT LEAST the doc
[07:11] <pwnguin>    directory, with special mention to readme.txt file ( this file )
[07:12] <persia> pwnguin: "Usage of the _information_ contained in the source code is free for any    use".  Just needs someone with an itch.
[07:12] <pwnguin> a massive itch
[07:12] <pwnguin> its 12 megs of compressed source
[07:13] <pwnguin> i gather much of it is historical in nature, but due to the distributed copyright, would be nearly impossible to negotiate
[07:14] <persia> DarkMageZ: lintian and linda are full of complaints.  Do you need hints for each one?
[07:14] <DarkMageZ> persia, the lintian complains are invalid. but i noticed the linda ones and having a look @ fixing them.
[07:15] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: why are they invalid?
[07:15] <persia> DarkMageZ: "changelog-should-mention-nmu" and "source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number" are both valid.  Perhaps you wanted to use -0ubuntu1 or set the maintainer Debian-style?
[07:16] <persia> Fujitsu: lintian still doesn't know about hardy :(
[07:16] <Fujitsu> persia: I've got a merge waiting in the u-m-s queue.
[07:16] <Fujitsu> (with that change)
[07:16]  * persia thinks we should patch the hardy lintian with the name of the next release as soon as it's decided
[07:17] <Fujitsu> That would be a good idea.
[07:17] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bug #?
[07:17] <persia> Fujitsu: Was that the only change, or did you also do the spellcheck MOTU change?
[07:17] <DarkMageZ> persia, k. i'll turn this package debian style so lintian won't cry.
[07:17]  * persia thanks Hobbsee for dilligence and attention
[07:17] <Fujitsu> persia: I added original-maintainer to the list of valid fields, but other than that, no.
[07:17] <persia> Fujitsu: That's a good one.
[07:17] <Hobbsee> it's useful, being able to upload to main :P
[07:18] <Hobbsee> persia: are you interested in adminship of the sponsorship queue, btw?
[07:18] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yeah, I'll have a number for you in a sec
[07:18] <Fujitsu> Bug #158667
[07:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158667 in lintian "Please merge lintian (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158667
[07:18] <persia> Hobbsee: I'd need someone to do it as a team (or rather, a backup for the next time I disappear for six weeks).  For the next couple months, I can take it, but will need help.
[07:19] <Hobbsee> persia: oh, it would be team based.
[07:19]  * Hobbsee is going to send a mail to the MOTU ML about it
[07:19] <persia> Hobbsee: In that case, sure.  I'm happy to help with that.
[07:20] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu:
[07:20] <Hobbsee> + Your version string suggests this package is for Ubuntu, so your
[07:20] <Hobbsee> + distribution should be one of hardy, gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy,
[07:20] <Hobbsee> + hoary or warty.
[07:20] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: surely not breezy, hoary, warty
[07:20] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They're still valid distributions.
[07:20] <Fujitsu> We should probably cull them at some point, though.
[07:20] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they dont even exist anymore, do they?
[07:20] <Hobbsee> i thought launchpad culled them.
[07:20] <Fujitsu> I guess we can kill of unsupported ones.
[07:20] <persia> DarkMageZ: 1) it FTBFS for me, and 2) If you make it Debian-style, lintian won't complain, but it can't be uploaded from REVU.
[07:21] <LaserJock> hmm, so I was last to touch lintian
[07:21] <Fujitsu> Brb.
[07:21] <DarkMageZ> persia, build error?
[07:21] <persia> DarkMageZ: configure: error: cannot run /bin/bash ./config.sub
[07:22] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: apart form that, looks fine.
[07:22] <persia> DarkMageZ: Caused by the lack of a Build-Depends on autotools-dev
[07:23] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: you're wanting to go for MOTU, arent you... :)
[07:23] <Hobbsee> s/:)/?/
[07:24] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, nope. it'd use my powers for evil went i get annoyed.
[07:24] <DarkMageZ> when*
[07:24] <Hobbsee> ah
[07:24] <Hobbsee> oh, must have been another d<name>
[07:24] <persia> DarkMageZ: On the other hand, your contributions are valued: please keep them up (and apologies it often takes us so long to commit them)
[07:24] <persia> Hobbsee: DktrKranz?
[07:25] <Hobbsee> yeah, him
[07:27]  * Fujitsu returns.
[07:27] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: So, do I want to remove those three?
[07:28] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think so
[07:28] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's not a valid distribution anymore - and for building locally, you'd probably ignore lintian warnings anyway
[07:29] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yep, fixing now.
[07:30] <Fujitsu> Hmm... We still have some package in the archive that will have old changelog entries like that.
[07:30] <Fujitsu> *packages
[07:31] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the packages themselves? oh sure.
[07:31] <persia> Fujitsu: We should really bump them.  There's no guarantee that we can build them in that state.  I'd like to get warnings.
[07:31] <Fujitsu> persia: True.
[07:31] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my point is that the *latest* one going in should definetly not be an unsupported version
[07:31] <persia> Hobbsee: That's important because of the automated lintian against everything in the archive that Fujitsu is running
[07:31] <Hobbsee> persia: uh?  piuparts?
[07:32] <Hobbsee> persia: we know the stuff still builds, even if it hasnt had a recompile since hoary.
[07:32] <persia> Hobbsee: We have lintian on everything updating two or three times a week.  We don't have a piuparts solution.  I'm tempted to go with what we have.
[07:32] <Hobbsee> allthough, there's no guarentee that the binaries are building with the latest packages, this is true
[07:32] <Hobbsee> persia: we will get piuparts, RSN>
[07:32]  * Hobbsee is reasonably sure of this.
[07:32] <persia> Hobbsee: That's not at all true.  I've fixed a fair number of FTBFS stuff that still builds in Dapper, but not for Feisty / Gutsy
[07:32] <Fujitsu> LPRSN, or something else?
[07:33] <persia> Hobbsee: Good luck.  I'm behind you all the way :)
[07:33] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: do you know who liw is?
[07:33] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True, true.
[07:33] <Fujitsu> (ie. yes)
[07:33] <Hobbsee> persia: weird.  i thought that it all got built for the  most recent version.
[07:33] <Hobbsee> in piuparts
[07:34] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: seeing as he's now an employee, id' expect him to start running it off people.u.c automatically.  if not, request it.
[07:34] <persia> Hobbsee: Umm.  "All got build in piuparts" or "all got built" and the other was a different context?
[07:34] <Hobbsee> persia: ah right
[07:34]  * Hobbsee is tired.
[07:34] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: piuparts doesn't take a trivial amount of CPU time to run. You need quite some hardware to do it.
[07:34] <Hobbsee> fricking nutty customers.
[07:35] <RAOF> imbrandon: No, I'm nat actively working on apt-proxy.  Go for your life.
[07:35] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and there are lots of machiens in the DC.  but true.
[07:35] <persia> Hobbsee: I'm less sure that p.u.c has the resources to run against all of universe on a regular basis.  Maybe we'll get lucky.
[07:35] <Fujitsu> So, after this argument, am I dropping them or not?
[07:35] <Hobbsee> persia: rookery?  no.  but other machiens there, that arent connected to the outside world - pitti will probably do that for us
[07:35] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i would.
[07:36] <persia> Fujitsu: Please drop them.  I'd prefer to see the warnings, and think that means we should bump with a -build1, if nothing else, just to check.
[07:36] <persia> Hobbsee: OK.  Good luck (somehow this reminds me of a similar discussion in May).
[07:37] <Hobbsee> persia: true
[07:37] <Hobbsee> persia: it hasn't gotten off the ground yet - some stuff's changed since then.
[07:38] <persia> Hobbsee: I know, and am very much encouraged.  I believe there's a good chance it will happen this time.  I'm just going to keep trying to organise a backup, just in case.
[07:38] <DarkMageZ> persia, k. i've done some fixing, but i've got 2 new lintian warnings that i don't know how to fix :( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=506
[07:38] <Hobbsee> persia: good idea.
[07:38] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: likely means that you're still not build-dep'ing on autotools-dev
[07:39] <persia> DarkMageZ: OK.  Ignore the first one: Fujitsu is adjusting the patch, and it should go away soon.  Items 2 & 3 mean you need to copy config.sub and config.guess from the autotools-dev package into the source directory before configure::
[07:39] <persia> (e.g. in makebuilddir::)
[07:39] <Hobbsee> persia: ew.
[07:39] <Hobbsee> persia: you mean people actually do that?
[07:39] <persia> Hobbsee: ew?  Why?
[07:39] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: New debdiff attached.
[07:40] <Hobbsee> how architecture-specific is autohell config files?
[07:40] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not at all.
[07:40] <Hobbsee> ah, OK
[07:40] <Fujitsu> You often need the newer ones to support other archs properly, in fact.
[07:40] <persia> Hobbsee: Not at all.  They encode information about all the architectures to support portability.
[07:40] <Hobbsee> persia: ahhh.
[07:40] <persia> (That's why lintian complains when they are out of date)
[07:41]  * Hobbsee wonders what they do contain, and ponders going and looking for one
[07:41] <persia> Hobbsee: Bascially, there are two current practices.  Either copy the files at packaging time, or copy the files at build time.  I like build time because it means that a give-back can help.  Other people like packaging time because it means that it's less likely to FTBFS if it builds locally.
[07:42]  * persia further notes that copying hint files at build time is *very* different than running autogen at build time
[07:42] <Hobbsee> persia: *nod*
[07:43]  * Hobbsee tends to just run autohell during build.
[07:43] <Hobbsee> and ditch debian's buildprep patches.
[07:44] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: please give me a patch that actually applies.
[07:44] <persia> Hobbsee: You don't want to run autogen during build because then your configuration flags are dependent on the versions of the libraries installed at build time, which, due to apt's support for alternate build depends (|), means that it's deuced difficult to expect a rebuild to produce a similar package.
[07:45] <Hobbsee> persia: *nods*
[07:45] <Hobbsee> persia: how does one end up running autogen?
[07:45] <Hobbsee> or does autogen run when
[07:45] <persia> Hobbsee: One runs it manually at packaging-time
[07:45] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: WFM
[07:46] <Hobbsee> --------------------------
[07:46] <Hobbsee> |diff -Nru /tmp/WFlb6bAD3d/lintian-1.23.36/checks/common_data.pm /tmp/tn6lKYl8oD/lintian-1.23.36ubuntu1/checks/common_data.pm
[07:46] <Hobbsee> |--- /tmp/WFlb6bAD3d/lintian-1.23.36/checks/common_data.pm      2007-10-15 09:15:44.000000000 +1000
[07:46] <Hobbsee> |+++ /tmp/tn6lKYl8oD/lintian-1.23.36ubuntu1/checks/common_data.pm       2007-11-03 18:29:51.000000000 +1100
[07:46] <Hobbsee> --------------------------
[07:46] <Hobbsee> File to patch:
[07:46] <persia> (Only do this if it's really out of date, or you need to alter things significantly, or it FTBFS locally)
[07:46] <Hobbsee> persia: ah right.
[07:46] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Are you applying it over the top of the old one?
[07:46] <Hobbsee> so i havent inadvertantly done it without knowing :)
[07:46] <persia> Hobbsee: -p4?
[07:46] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah
[07:46] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, that would do it.
[07:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: someon
[07:47] <persia> Hobbsee: If you ran autogen by accident, the package has other issues :)
[07:47] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah well :)
[07:47] <DarkMageZ> persia, this should be good. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=507 lintian only cries about hardy and linda is quiet.
[07:47] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Um?
[07:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: erm.  hwo were you intending me to run it then, if not over the original source?
[07:48] <persia> DarkMageZ: Did you run linda and lintian also against the binaries that result when you build it?
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I was intending it to be over the original source.
[07:48] <persia> Fujitsu: A merge against the Debian source?  Or against the last Ubuntu source?
[07:48] <Fujitsu> persia: Debian.
[07:48] <Hobbsee> oh, duh.
[07:48] <Hobbsee> whoops
[07:49] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You were applying it over the already applied one?
[07:49]  * persia reminds Hobbsee to use -v(last Ubuntu revision)
[07:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i was applying it to the ubuntu one, yeah.
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's what I was checking with `Are you applying it over the top of the old one?', but it was rather ambiguous.
[07:50]  * Hobbsee uses grabmerge, then.
[07:50] <DarkMageZ> persia, run against the produced .deb ? what type of things does it check for with the binary?
[07:50] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah.  i had no idea what you meant about that
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Sorry.
[07:50] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no problem.
[07:51] <persia> DarkMageZ: I usually run against _arch.changes, which iterates over each of the .deb files.
[07:51] <persia> DarkMageZ: Similar to the source checks, there are binary checks for a number of things.
[07:52] <DarkMageZ> persia, all good. cept the hardy issue.
[07:53] <persia> DarkMageZ: Great.  I'll take a closer look at 507 then.
[07:55]  * persia wishes the output wasn't in ALL CAPS
[07:56] <DarkMageZ> output of?
[07:56] <persia> DarkMageZ: sbuid
[07:56] <persia> s/id/ild/
[07:58] <persia> DarkMageZ: linda tells me you aren't shipping the upstream changelog.  You might need to set a config variable
[07:59] <persia> DarkMageZ: Any particular reason to use debhelper 4 instead of debhelper 5?  That might be the cause of my last comment
[08:00] <DarkMageZ> persia, that's greater than or = to. to stop linda from crying. it should be using whatever the current version for your distro is
[08:01] <persia> DarkMageZ: Right, but you've specified 4 in debian/compat.
[08:01] <persia> As a result, debhelper does everything in compatibility mode, and doesn't expose the new features.
[08:01] <DarkMageZ> persia, k. i'll bump that. but i don't get that warning here :(
[08:02] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: which version are you running?
[08:02] <persia> DarkMageZ: The "no upstream copyright file" warning?  debian/compat is just my eyes, not automated.
[08:02]  * persia uses the linda and lintian flags shown on https://wiki,ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[08:02]  * Fujitsu would like to see a space between `debhelper' and the versioning, but that's just nitpicking.
[08:04] <persia> DarkMageZ: I'm not that familiar with libvisual-plugins.  Are there also plugins not contained in either libvisual-plugins-goom2k4 and libvisual-plugins?
[08:04] <persia> s/and/or/
[08:06] <DarkMageZ> persia, official libv-p-0.4 ships what ubuntu's libv-p-0.4 + g-force. there's also goom2k4 which is what this is which was accidentially not included in official 0.4. there's also projectm and maybe others i have not found.
[08:06] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: uploaded, thanks
[08:07] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks.
[08:07] <persia> DarkMageZ: Hmm..  I'm almost more tempted to get goom2k4 as a patch to libvisual-plugins, rather than looking at an entirely new package.  What is your opinion?
[08:07] <Fujitsu> (I didn't think it was broken - the patch applied, built, and ran over universe and multiverse)
[08:07] <persia> heh
[08:08] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont know why i thought that the p<#>'s go backwards
[08:09] <DarkMageZ> persia, i'm not bothered either way. ubuntu's choice.
[08:10] <persia> DarkMageZ: Well, I'd argue it's in large part your choice, as you're the primary Ubuntu contributor for libvisual-plugins.  Do you want to maintain a huge patch which can be dropped for the next upstream, or maintain two packages, and merge them later?
[08:11]  * Hobbsee could have sworn that used to be in main.
[08:11] <DarkMageZ> persia, i'll build a giant patch. gimme a few minutes
[08:12] <persia> DarkMageZ: Thanks.  I think that makes it easier, especially for the archive admins :)
[08:13] <persia> DarkMageZ: And, as before, I'll suggest you might want to ping David about it, but the package is so different at this point that it's not nearly as important.
[08:14] <DarkMageZ> persia, david doesn't appear to be interested. if i tried any harder to get any sort of responce from him he'd probably file for an avo. lol
[08:14] <persia> heh
[08:15] <persia> DarkMageZ: If you7re up for it, and want to also close Debian Bug#431915, I suspect someone would be happy.
[08:15] <persia> Err.  Not actually close the bug, but provide a fix in Ubuntu so that it doesn't apply here.
[08:16]  * persia misses ubotu http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=431915
[08:16] <ubotu> Debian bug 431915 in libvisual-plugins "Please add projectM to package" [Important,Open]
[08:16] <Fujitsu> debian bug #431915
[08:16] <Fujitsu> I think it needs a space.
[08:17] <persia> Perhaps, but it's not talking to you either.  I think it's started a URL-only diet
[08:17] <DarkMageZ> persia, fix already mostly provided. i personally would not be up for merging it into libvisual-plugins. too painful. good case for separate package
[08:17] <Fujitsu> I think it was probably because you'd said it so quickly before.
[08:17] <Fujitsu> debian bug #431915
[08:17] <ubotu> Debian bug 431915 in libvisual-plugins "Please add projectM to package" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/431915
[08:17] <Fujitsu> There we go.
[08:18] <persia> DarkMageZ: Ah.  I see you're already completely on top of it: I should read the bug logs :)
[08:18] <DarkMageZ> persia, apachelogger uploaded projectm to revu. i'm hoping he fixes his issue with 1.01 so he'll bump his revu packages to the current version.
[08:19] <DarkMageZ> cause 1.01 works fine here.
[08:19] <persia> DarkMageZ: Cool.  It sounds like that will be all sorted for hardy then :)
[08:21] <Repsa_Jih> could anyone review my package on REVU?
[08:22] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Which package, what URL, how many advocates do you have, and did you fix everything from the last comment?
[08:23] <Repsa_Jih> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta
[08:23] <Repsa_Jih> I need a first review so I can start fixing
[08:23] <persia> DarkMageZ: I'm archiving the  libvisual-plugins-goom2k4 REVU entry based on this discussion.
[08:24] <persia> Repsa_Jih: On that page, there is a bunch of output from lintian and linda.  You'll want to try to fix those first, before asking for a manual review.  If you have any questions, please ask them here.
[08:25] <Repsa_Jih> Kk
[08:26] <persia> Does anyone have an opinion about item #2 in http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/annchienta-0711012110/annchienta-1.0/debian/copyright ?  Does that make it non-free?
[08:27] <persia> (or does it require special handling?)
[08:28] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Also, You'll want to make this not a native package, so that it can be included in lots of distributions, rather than just Ubuntu.
[08:28] <Repsa_Jih> Ok
[08:30] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Just idly, as my request above doesn't seem to be attracting attention, would http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License not meet your license goals?
[08:32]  * Fujitsu returns from dinner and looks at debian/copyright.
[08:33] <Fujitsu> persia: Sounds like Mozilla's trademark stuff?
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Also like ion3.
[08:33] <Fujitsu> ie. multiverse.
[08:33] <persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
[08:34] <Repsa_Jih> It's the zlib/libpng license, actually
[08:34] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Based on that, I'd encourage you to consider altering the license.  We're more than happy to match upstream, as it makes life easier from a distribution point of view, but multiverse = purgatory in many ways.
[08:34] <Fujitsu> So it is.
[08:35] <persia> Oh.  I remember something about the zlib license...
[08:35] <Fujitsu> I'm really not sure why that's OK.
[08:35] <Repsa_Jih> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/zlib-license.php
[08:35] <persia> Fujitsu: I think it's based on the argument that adding -N marks it as unofficlal somehow.
[08:36] <Fujitsu> persia: It mentions that the modified source versions, not binaries.
[08:36] <persia> Ah.  Cool.  My apologies.  That's all good.
[08:36] <Fujitsu> Erk, changed what I was saying half-way through.
[08:41] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Other than the example files, including your full name, making it non-native, the other other thing I see offhand is extra commented-out stuff in debian/rules.  Nice work.
[08:44] <Repsa_Jih> What should I comment out?
[08:44] <Repsa_Jih> And should I add an url to the zlib license to make it more clear?
[08:45] <persia> Repsa_Jih: It's not that you should comment out more, it's that lots of commented commands make it harder to read.
[08:46] <persia> Regarding copyright, I don't think you need to include the URL.  The archive admins are much more familiar with the definition of free vs. non-free than most MOTUs: you should be safe.
[08:46] <Repsa_Jih> Oh I see
[08:50] <s1024kb> persia: Hey, i had recorded all those things you guys had just chatted and will read them later at home as a lecture... haha
[08:50]  * persia uninstalls liquidwar in the hopes this will increase the upload count
[08:51] <persia> s1024kb: That's a good way to learn about packaging.  We encourage questions in this channel, and the answers are usually applicable to other packages as well.
[08:52] <s1024kb> :-). By the way, it's your holiday today and you don't need to work in the office?
[09:01] <DarkMageZ> persia, how should i handle this? open a new bug and attach debdiff? email you a copy of the debdiff?
[09:02] <persia> DarkMageZ: Open a bug, attach a debdiff, subscribe the sponsors.  I promise it won't take three months this time :)
[09:02] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, hey. about bug #59534 ? why did you change it to won't fix without an explaination in the bug report?
[09:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 59534 in libvisual "Libvisual autoinstall by demand" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59534
[09:05] <persia> DarkMageZ: The big issue is that libvisual is in main, whereas libvisual-plugins is in universe.  Main shouldn't depend or recommend universe
[09:07] <DarkMageZ> yup i know. but he didn't explain this in the bug report when he killed it off and didn't reply to a request in the bug report on why he did it.
[09:08] <persia> DarkMageZ: Yeah, well, not everything gets documented as well as it might.  Are you looking to do another sweep of bugs as well as adding the new plugin?
[09:09] <DarkMageZ> persia, i'm not aware of any other bugs atm. so it'll just be tweaks in the debian folder and the new visualization.
[09:10] <persia> Even better :)
[09:13] <DarkMageZ> persia, i can drop the sizes of my changes by about 600KB if someone fixed bug #152528
[09:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152528 in xmms-goom "needs to be split into multiple packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152528
[09:14] <persia> DarkMageZ: That's fair game if you want to try it.
[09:15] <DarkMageZ> i had a shot at it, i managed to expose the development sections, but i couldn't do it without breaking the splitting of the package. lack of skill on my part.
[09:16] <persia> DarkMageZ: You might try uploading a work-in-progress to some net-accessible location, and asking someone to take a look :)
[09:19] <persia> I'm looking a codeine for bug #159338, and I'd like some advice re: binary dependencies.  Currently codeine gets the libxine dependency from ${shlibs:Depends}.  Does this get automatically overridden if I add "libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2)" manually?
[09:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159338 in xfmedia "Re: Heads-up: small xine-lib transition in hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159338
[09:20] <Fujitsu> persia: No. You'll get a duplicate dependency, which lintian will complain about.
[09:20] <persia> Fujitsu: That's what I thought.  Any suggestions?
[09:21] <Fujitsu> persia: Have you had a look at how the other package(s) do it?
[09:21]  * persia investigates xfmedia
[09:23] <persia> Fujitsu: The only package marked "Fixed" isn't.
[09:24] <persia> Err...  Nevermind.  "Needs Building".  I may be inaccurate...
[09:27] <persia> Nope.  I was right the first time.  There is currently no example of a correct solution uploaded.
[09:27] <Fujitsu> persia: Not even siretart's?
[09:28] <persia> Fujitsu: Which package?  It doesn't show on the bug task page.
[09:28] <Fujitsu> klear.
[09:29]  * persia wonders why there is no assignment: doesn't LP do that automatically?
[09:34] <Fujitsu> persia: No, changelog-closes-bugs only sets the status
[09:34] <Fujitsu> Changing assignee is a bit risky. as multiple people may have collaborated on an upload, etc.
[09:35] <persia> Right.  Claims are web or email based then, I suppose.  Not a bad model.
[09:36] <persia> Fujitsu: Not even klear.
[09:37] <persia> Alternately, perhaps the duplicate dependencies are intentional.  Must depend on the library, and also either a front-end-support module or a version of the library before the package split.  I think I'll go with duplicate depends.
[09:39] <Fujitsu> I guess there's probably no other way around it at the moment.
[09:39] <geser> persia: have you the Depends line for klear at hand?
[09:39] <Fujitsu> They can be removed for Hardy+1.
[09:39] <persia> geser: results of a local build: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43101/
[09:40] <persia> Fujitsu: rather, next LTS, no?
[09:42] <persia> OK.  I haven't done a KDE package in a while.  kde-config isn't in my path, but I don't find a kdebase-devel package in my hardy chroot (although I'm told that is what I need to install)
[09:42] <Fujitsu> persia: Aren't the duplicate dependencies only for upgrades, or did I miss something?
[09:42] <Fujitsu> I must admit that I didn't read it thoroughly.
[09:42] <warp10> I've found a bug reported months ago, status "new". The bug has been fixed in Gutsy. What's the most appropriate status? Fix-released??
[09:43] <persia> Fujitsu: libxine1 (>= 1.1.4), ... , libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2) (or were you asking a different question?)
[09:43] <persia> warp10: I think so, but you'll get a better answer in #ubuntu-bugs
[09:44] <warp10> persia: good suggestion... thank you! :)
[09:46] <Fujitsu> persia: Won't that old version of libxine1 only be in Gutsy and lower?
[09:47] <persia> Fujitsu: Right, but Debian bug #448077 tells the story of a user who didn't have the frontend module installed (pushing the transition plan)
[09:47] <ubotu> Debian bug 448077 in xine-ui "please depend on libxine1-x" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/448077
[09:49] <persia> Ah.  Nevermind.  I'm not reading you well.  Yes, this would normally only be adding a dependency on the frontend module, but the | supports upgrades and backports.
[09:50] <Fujitsu> So there's no reason we can't drop the second libxine1 versioned dep in Hardy+1 or so?
[09:50] <Fujitsu> I really don't see the point of it.
[09:50] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah, because all Hardy users will already have it.  Right.
[09:51] <geser> if the app links directly against libxine1 it should be mentioned in Depends even if libxine-x depends on libxine
[09:51]  * persia is confused about the difference between supporting things since the last LTS and supporting things until the next LTS.  Dropping all the Dapper/Gutsy transition bits for Hardy+1 makes sense.
[09:52] <Repsa_Jih> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta I think the latest lintian error shouldn't be there
[09:52] <Repsa_Jih> I'm pretty sure it's done correctly, the changelogs are identical
[09:52] <persia> geser: Right.  The objective was to not have two dependencies on libxine (both versioned), just to make lintian a little more quiet.  It appears we need it in these cases.
[09:53] <persia> Repsa_Jih: That error is because you're generating a native Debian package.  You'll want to 1) separate your debian/ directory into your diff.gz, and 2) use an -0ubuntu1 version number.
[09:54] <Repsa_Jih> How would I go about the first one?
[09:56] <persia> From the package directory, `mv debian ../annchienta-debian; cd ,,; tar czf annchienta-1.0.tar.gz annchienta-1.0; mv annchienta-1.0.tar.gz annchienta-1.9.orig.tar.gz; mv annchienta-debian annchienta-1.0/debian; cd annchienta-1.0; sed -i s/1\.0/1.0-0ubuntu1/ debian/changelog; debuild -S`
[09:57] <persia> Umm.  Except you really always want 1.0, and never 1.9 :)
[09:57] <Repsa_Jih> k
[09:57] <persia> Err... And probably want to use debuild -S -sa
[09:58] <persia> And more generally, don't want to run random shell fragments from IRC
[09:58] <Repsa_Jih> I was checking it :)
[10:07] <Repsa_Jih> Your version string suggests this package is for Ubuntu, so your distribution should be one of gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy, hoary or warty.
[10:07] <Repsa_Jih> How should I fix that, then?
[10:08] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Don't worry about that one.  That's a lintian bug.  The patch was applied a few hours back, so it won't get distributed for a couple days.
[10:09] <Repsa_Jih> kk
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Do we normally backport lintian?
[10:10] <persia> Fujitsu: Only in that we usually have a special backport of lintian and linda for REVU.
[10:11] <persia> Well, perhaps not "usually", but at least for Gutsy.  I wasn't doing much reviewing during Feisty.
[10:21] <fosstux> Hi! What do I have to do so that a program is included in the repository?
[10:21] <Repsa_Jih> Which program?
[10:22] <fosstux> Detox (http://detox.sourceforge.net/)
[10:23] <persia> fosstux: It needs to be packaged by someone, submitted to developer review, and submitted for archive admin review, in that order.
[10:24] <pyc> hi, how do i package a shared object file?
[10:25] <pyc> i mean an individual .so file
[10:25] <persia> pyc: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[10:25] <pyc> ok
[10:25] <fosstux> ok. I haveinstalled it using checkinstall...
[10:26] <Repsa_Jih> Allright, is this correct now? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta
[10:26] <persia> pyc: And you can't :)  You need to do the source package, and then the library and development packages are built from that.
[10:26] <pyc> oh :(
[10:26] <persia> fosstux: The current release of checkinstall has some issues that mean the packages cannot be accepted easily.  Sorry about that: it will need to be repackaged.
[10:27] <fosstux> ok.
[10:27] <Hobbsee> uh, what?
[10:27] <Hobbsee> since when did we accept packages when they'd been touched with checkinstall anyway?
[10:28] <Hobbsee> checkinstall was best when it kept segfaulting on attempting to start ti.
[10:28]  * Fujitsu liked those days.
[10:28] <persia> Hobbsee: I haven't know checkinstall to be free of the dependcy issues, etc. since Ubuntu began.
[10:28] <Fujitsu> But then some people got annoyed when we just laughed, IIRC.
[10:29] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, indeed!
[10:29] <Hobbsee> persia: as in, for it itself installing, or for it building other things?
[10:29] <Hobbsee> persia: i think it's built using the wrnog approaches, so...
[10:29] <persia> Hobbsee: I'm not a fan (although I've patched a couple things in it), but I'm not sure there isn't value in automating some of the packaging process.
[10:30] <Hobbsee> cdbs ftw!
[10:30] <Hobbsee> dh_make doesnt do too bad a job, actually
[10:30]  * persia disagrees with dh_make about many things, and doesn't like the example files.
[10:31]  * Fujitsu writes everything by hand.
[10:31] <persia> Fujitsu: That's wise.  It is, after all, only three files.
[10:31] <Hobbsee> persia: true, the example files arent terribly useful
[10:32] <persia> Hobbsee: And the default rules isn't lintian clean, and generates big ugly diff.gz files, even when someone adds a patch system (at least for C/C++ packages)
[10:33] <Hobbsee> urgh
[10:33]  * Hobbsee doesnt do new packaging, didnt you know?
[10:33] <persia> Hobbsee: Neither do I, but I often find myself trying to sort of a mess when someone uses dh_make, and isn't careful (and not only REVU)
[10:34]  * Repsa_Jih wonders if this is packaged correctly now: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=annchienta
[10:34] <persia> Hobbsee: For a true horror story, ask DarkMageZ and RAOF about trying to get aotoconf working for libvisual-plugins without having conflicting patches in the diff.gz and debian/patches
[10:35] <DarkMageZ> i've got better horror stories, that was fairly light stuff
[10:35] <DarkMageZ> in comparison
[10:35] <persia> Repsa_Jih: Someone will look at it as soon as they have time.  If you ask too often (we request less than once a day), you'll get put on a lower priority list.  If nobody else does, I'll look at it in about 20 minutes.
[10:35] <Repsa_Jih> Oh, I'm sorry.
[10:36] <persia> DarkMageZ: heh, but were they related to dh_make?
[10:36] <Repsa_Jih> I didn't know that
[10:36] <persia> Repsa_Jih: No worries.  You're new here.  Nobody gets swatted without a warning :)
[10:36] <Repsa_Jih> K :)
[10:37] <Hobbsee> persia: yummy.
[10:37] <DarkMageZ> persia, ah. i hasn't read that part.
[10:37] <fosstux> where can I find a ubuntu Tutorial how to build a dab?
[10:37] <fosstux> deb... ofcourse
[10:38] <persia> fosstux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[10:38] <DarkMageZ> persia, hehe. one of my favorite horror stories comes from checkinstall.
[10:38] <fosstux> thx
[10:38] <persia> DarkMageZ: Yep.  That's why it's not currently accepted for new packaging.
[10:46] <Kmos> !packaging
[10:46] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[10:46] <Kmos> :)
[10:47] <persia> Kmos: Thanks for pointing that out.
[10:47] <persia> ubotu: packaging is The packaging guide is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[10:47] <Kmos> persia: shouldn't fix the first link to the new in the wiki ?
[10:48] <pochu> bluekuja: ping? I'm merging rtorrent from Debian, and I'm wondering whether we still want to apply the port-range patch. Bug #110803. Since upstream thinks it's better a default starting from 6890...
[10:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110803 in rtorrent "The default for port_range should be "6881-6999", not "6890-6999"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110803
[10:48] <bluekuja> pochu, let me see
[10:48] <pochu> bluekuja: wait!
[10:48] <pochu> ../src/command_network.cc:  ADD_VARIABLE_STRING("port_range", "6881-6999");
[10:49] <pochu> bluekuja: so it looks like it's been changed upstream :)
[10:49] <bluekuja> ^^
[10:49] <bluekuja> seems so :)
[10:49] <pochu> I'll remove the patch then. Thanks!
[10:49] <bluekuja> np, is it the only Ubuntu change?
[10:50] <pochu> bluekuja: yeah, we can sync again! :-)
[10:50]  * pochu tests it and requests a sync
[10:50]  * persia wishes *all* torrent applications had configurable port ranges, rather than hard-coded port ranges
[10:50] <bluekuja> pochu, great, let me know when you've opened a sync bug
[10:50] <pochu> persia: that's the default :)
[10:51] <pochu> bluekuja: would you mind sponsoring an upload for me? bug 159700
[10:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159700 in tasks "Merge tasks 0.12-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159700
[10:51] <persia> pochu: Goody!.  I haven't looked in a while, but I remember patching python-source in /usr/share for original bittorrent.
[10:51] <bluekuja> pochu, yep, let me look at it
[10:51] <pochu> bluekuja: and bug 159695 needs a confirmation, if you have some time :-)
[10:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159695 in anjuta "Please sync anjuta (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159695
[10:51] <pochu> bluekuja: ty
[10:52] <bluekuja> pochu, added to TODO as well ;)
[10:52] <pochu> cool :)
[10:52] <bluekuja> pochu, would you mind adding a debdiff to tasks merge?
[10:52] <bluekuja> I don't like reviewing merges that way
[10:53] <pochu> bluekuja: sure, from Debian or from old Ubuntu?
[10:53] <pochu> Or from both? :)
[10:53] <bluekuja> pochu, between new Ubuntu revision and the new debian one
[10:53] <bluekuja> where new Ubuntu is your one
[10:53] <bluekuja> of course
[10:54] <bluekuja> pochu, like every normal merge
[10:54] <bluekuja> (or is it your first one?)
[10:55] <pochu> bluekuja: no, but I haven't done any since Gutsy ;)
[10:55]  * pochu adds it.
[10:55] <bluekuja> ty
[10:55]  * persia thinks pochu predates workflow, but tends to focus on only a few packages, and so has been lucky with sponsoring
[10:57] <pochu> persia: I do, but I want to change that (focus on the entire universe ;) )
[10:57] <bluekuja> pochu, plus when asking for a sync, would be nice to have latest unstable changelog's entry as well
[10:57] <bluekuja> so I don't have to check it myself
[10:57] <persia> pochu: That's a big goal, but you're more than welcome :)
[10:57] <pochu> bluekuja: ah, right :|
[10:57] <bluekuja> pochu, also I would like to see a build log there
[10:58] <bluekuja> writing "build fine"
[10:58] <pochu> bluekuja: I have it, gimme a sec.
[10:58] <bluekuja> k, fine
[10:58]  * persia notes that more than just the latest, but all Debian changelog entries since the last Ubuntu pull is nice
[10:58] <bluekuja> persia, true
[10:58] <bluekuja> pochu, all debian entries since latest ubuntu
[10:59] <bluekuja> even better
[10:59] <bluekuja> ;)
[10:59] <pochu> bluekuja: tasks debdiff attached.
[10:59] <bluekuja> pochu, let me check it
[11:00] <persia> Repsa_Jih: annchienta (510) FTBFS for me.
[11:03] <bluekuja> pochu, dont need to add the lp bug again
[11:03] <bluekuja> pochu, in the new entry
[11:04] <pochu> bluekuja: it's for future reference. but since it isn't 'LP: ', but 'Launchpad', it won't re-close it ;)
[11:04] <bluekuja> yeah, ok then
[11:11] <knights> In what package can I find the dpms dev headers?
[11:12] <jpatrick> persia: just to be sure, for the new xine, we change the build dep to libxine-dev (>= 1.0.2) ?
[11:12] <persia> knights: Maybe libxcb-dpms0-dev, but I've not checked
[11:13] <knights> persia: Unfortunately I've already tried that- no look
[11:13] <knights> luck, even
[11:13] <persia> jpatrick: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43107/ is my debdiff - sample minimal adjustment for the transition
[11:14] <persia> jpatrick: Well, you might get lucky, and not need Maintainer mangling, but aside from that :)
[11:14] <jpatrick> persia: just the dep on libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2) - got it
[11:14] <persia> jpatrick: Remember to use libxine1-console for non-x apps
[11:15] <jpatrick> persia: I'm doing the KDE ones :)
[11:15] <persia> jpatrick: Excellent.  I'll do the rest of universe, and we'll be in good shape :)
[11:17] <persia> Of course, as this is a Malone-managed transition, anyone else is welcome to join: just assign yourself a task (although it's lots easier if you can upload)
[11:17]  * jpatrick was unlucky and got a messy merge
[11:17] <bluekuja> pochu, looks fine
[11:18]  * persia has been sniping those that aren't merge candidates :)
[11:18] <jpatrick> yay, conflicts everywhere
[11:19] <persia> 0.6.4-4+b1 means binary NMU, right?
[11:20] <geser> persia: yes
[11:20] <persia> geser: Thanks.
[11:21] <geser> jpatrick: depending on the size of the Ubuntu delta, it might be easier to apply the Ubuntu changes by hand on the recent Debian package
[11:21] <geser> (resolving conflicts in configure is no fun)
[11:21]  * persia always does that: patchutils can help
[11:22] <jpatrick> geser: no worries, everythings fine
[11:25] <jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43109/ - does anyone know what that _P=)'s for?
[11:28] <persia> jpatrick: It's because sed is silly about close parens.
[11:28] <jpatrick> persia: ah, right, thanks, just making sure
[11:33] <pochu> bluekuja: bug 159695 updated :)
[11:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159695 in anjuta "Please sync anjuta (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159695
[11:33] <bluekuja> pochu, tasks uploaded.
[11:33] <bluekuja> pochu, you should fix the bug title
[11:33] <bluekuja> pochu, to merge package-version from debian unstable
[11:34] <bluekuja> pochu, plus a build log is missing
[11:34] <bluekuja> :)
[11:34] <pochu> I've just attached it ;)
[11:34] <bluekuja> (refreshing)
[11:34] <bluekuja> huge build log^^
[11:35] <jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43110/ - which is the prefered format?
[11:36] <persia> jpatrick: I prefer the second set without reference, but generally prefer the Debian solution, unless there is a good reason otherwise, as it makes merging easier next time.
[11:37] <pochu> bluekuja: just got port 6888 in rtorrent 0.7.8, so we can safely remove the patch :)
[11:37] <persia> jpatrick: More generally, one doesn't want to have to update the package to build into debian/packagename/foo
[11:37]  * pochu request a sync
[11:37] <jpatrick> right, now to find a core-dev
[11:37] <bluekuja> pochu, yep
[11:39] <pochu> bluekuja: thanks for the upload.
[11:39] <bluekuja> pochu, np
[11:49] <pochu> bluekuja: bug 149190
[11:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149190 in rtorrent "Please sync rtorrent 0.7.8-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149190
[11:49] <pochu> Hope it's fine :)
[11:50]  * persia encourages pochu to take advantage of the fine sponsors queue
[11:55] <pochu> persia: it's because he included the patch I've dropped :) But yes, I should use it more (not that I don't use it, but not always...).
[11:56] <persia> pochu: Right.  That's why it's encouragement.  You get by, and generally don't bother anyone, but you could probably benefit from the queue as well (and would certainly have more people seeing your work, which could help in any future application)
[12:00] <Jazzva> Hmm... I'm confused. I'm looking at one package, that needs to be merged or synced. One of the files is marked with .UBUNTU and .DEBIAN, so there should be some changes. But the diff says they're the same. So, that should be just a bug in automatic checking?
[12:01] <persia> Jazzva: it's not likely a bug, either you're missing something, or the change is invisible (non-printable characters, whitespace alterations, etc.)
[12:01] <Jazzva> persia: Ok... I'll take a look at permissions or something like that :)... Thanks
[12:03] <Jazzva> Well, the permissions, size and timestamps are the same for both files :/.
[12:03] <bluekuja> pochu, is it written somewhere in upstream website?
[12:04] <persia> Jazzva: I'd argue for invisible then.  diff might help you track down which line number, and with the right arguments produce something small enough to pipe into od
[12:06] <pochu> bluekuja: not that I know, and I can't find anything about it.
[12:06] <bluekuja> pochu, that's why I asked
[12:06] <bluekuja> :)
[12:07] <bluekuja> pochu, but anyway we have   ADD_VARIABLE_STRING("port_range", "6881-6999");
[12:08] <bluekuja> that confirms that
[12:08] <bluekuja> pochu, the patch shouldnt apply anymore as well then
[12:12] <pochu> bluekuja: it doesn't. And I got a 6888 port with the random port enabled.
[12:12] <knights> I'm just editing my debian/control file for my 1st ever deb but I think I've messed the formatting ie the leave a space at the start of each line of the package description
[12:12] <knights> howshould I edit this file?
[12:12] <knights> or is there a script that will format it for me?
[12:13] <Jazzva> persia: Hmm, the diff -s explicitly says they are the same, the file identifies them as ASCII PO text. I think that the same char encoding is used...
[12:13] <persia> Jazzva: Odd.  Are you using MoM or DaD?  Which file?
[12:13] <knights> When I say 'how should I edit' I mean should I be editing it in 'so many columns' mode or something?
[12:14] <knights> with a specific text editor maybe?
[12:14] <Jazzva> persia: MoM, package xsane. Files are backend-po/newbackend.po.{DEBIAN,UBUNTU}
[12:14] <bluekuja> pochu, true, also I see inside /src/core/manager.cc
[12:14] <bluekuja> that the line reported in the bug is no more there
[12:15] <bluekuja> and now we have a variable for it...maybe the moved everything to the other file you linked me before
[12:15] <bluekuja> pochu, let me test if it works here as well and I ack your request
[12:15] <knights> Can anyone help me edit me control file please?
[12:16] <Jazzva> persia: I also think that the same will be with the rest of the files in backend-po marked with C* in report.
[12:16] <pochu> knights: every line in description should start with a space.
[12:16] <persia> knights: Generally, I use vi.  If it's broken in some way, and you need another eye, a pastebin might help.  As far as I know, there is no lint like tool.
[12:19] <knights> persia: Yes but don't I need to enforce so-many column and some kind of wrapping as I don't know whee to insert the new lines in the description- that'd be the only way I could add a space at the start of each line
[12:19] <knights> If I just open vi in a terminal it could be of any column size
[12:19] <Jazzva> persia: Just checked the rest with file and diff. file reports they all the pairs are the same file type. diff reports that every pair is identical.
[12:19] <persia> Jazzva: That's just odd.  The timestamps match as well.  I think it's the wrong time of day, but I suspect a bug report may help (and I don't know where it gets filed)
[12:20] <knights> I'd like to do it in gedit, kate or a gui text ed pref.
[12:20] <persia> knights: Yes, you need to enforce it, and yes, vi is flexible, but you can also find your position on each line, and manually split the lines (you should be able to do this in any text editor)
[12:21] <knights> persia: and that splitting position number is?
[12:21] <knights> column 80?
[12:22] <Jazzva> persia: Wrong time of day? For example one is 9am, and the other 9pm?
[12:22] <persia> knights: It should be less than 80 columns.  If a couple lines are exactly 80, nothing will complain, but I usually shoot for 76 or so, so that diffs and diffs of diffs are also within 80.
[12:22] <knights> right! Thanks
[12:22] <persia> (diffs of diffs of diffs should be avoided, if at all possible)
[12:22] <Jazzva> knights: Also, check if the text editor made backup files (they end in ~), gedit does that by default. Don't forget to clean them up (I do *sigh)...
[12:23] <Hobbsee> right.  MOTU ML emailed.
[12:25] <zul> who is doing what now?
[12:25] <persia> zul: You can have it all, if you want :)
[12:26] <zul> i already have it all
[12:26] <Jazzva> persia: I looked at DaD, those files aren't reported with C*, so I suppose it's a bug in MoM...
[12:27] <persia> Jazzva: Perhaps.  Hard to say.  I'd definitely report it as a bug in MoM, as it should be looked at, but I can't say if it's MoM, or something MoM is using to do the work.
[12:27]  * cyberix will change his strategy
[12:28] <cyberix> Please surf http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq to see that there is nothing to complain about the package, and move on to sponsoring it. Lets make the World a better palace!
[12:29] <pochu> imbrandon: irssi is taken a while... is it normal?
[12:30] <pochu> s/taken/taking/
[12:31] <Fujitsu> pochu: Taking a while?
[12:31] <Jazzva> persia: well, I suppose it's the latter.
[12:32] <persia> cyberix: Better strategy.  Things to include in the request: whether the new upload fixes previous comments, and whether you are seeking the first or second advocate.
[12:32] <Jazzva> persia: I'll file a bug... just to find the appropriate project. If I don't, should I file a bug in Ubuntu (as the last resort)?
[12:32] <pochu> Fujitsu: it hasn't been announced, isn't in the archive, isn't in the new queue...
[12:33] <Hobbsee> pochu: did it actually get sponosred?
[12:33] <pochu> Hobbsee: imbrandon told me he uploaded it.
[12:33] <cyberix> persia: It fixes the pervious requests and some other issues too.
[12:33] <cyberix> persia: I'm looking for the first advocate.
[12:34] <Hobbsee> pochu: ah
[12:34] <Fujitsu> pochu: It hasn't been uploaded.
[12:34] <Fujitsu> Or it was uploaded incorrectly and rejected due to lack of signage or so.
[12:34] <persia> cyberix: OK.  Did you already run linda and lintian against the binary packages?
[12:35] <pochu> Ok, thanks. Maybe he meant he added it to his todo or something :)
[12:35] <pochu> Or it was rejected, yup.
[12:36] <Fujitsu> pochu: What's the bug #?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> why was it rejected?
[12:36] <pochu> Ouch! s/gutsy/hardy/ !
[12:36] <pochu> :-)
[12:36] <Hobbsee> just upgrade to hardy.  problem solved.
[12:36] <Fujitsu> pochu: That's what I was going to check.
[12:36] <Nafallo> hehe. easy enough to miss :-)
[12:37] <Hobbsee> pochu: ah well, fix it, and point me at a bug #
[12:37] <Fujitsu> That's probably the most common and easiest to miss.
[12:37] <pochu> Hobbsee: or rather bind dch to dch --release=hardy :)
[12:38] <Hobbsee> pochu: that would work
[12:38] <Hobbsee> unless doing backports
[12:40] <pochu> Hobbsee: bug 159659
[12:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159659 in irssi "Merge with Debian unstable - new upstream release 0.8.12" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159659
[12:40] <pochu> I've updated the package in that link.
[12:42] <persia> pochu: lately, I've been maintaining a hardy chroot for development work, with a bind-mount of /home.  That way I get the hardy dev tools and still have a gutsy workstation.
[12:42] <geser> I've install the devscripts from hardy on my gutsy, I just now need to add hardy to the vim syntax hilighting
[12:43] <cyberix> persia: Yes.
[12:43] <persia> cyberix: OK.  I'll take a look then.
[12:43] <cyberix> persia: And got rid of all complaints
[12:43] <persia> cyberix: Even better :)
[12:43] <joejaxx> :)
[12:44] <LucidFox> could anyone review a REVU package?
[12:44] <Fujitsu> jpatrick: You might want to merge the jpatrick-kubuntu account on LP with your normal one.
[12:44] <jpatrick> Fujitsu: I'm trying but my @kubuntu.org and sysadmin hasn't got round to fixing it
[12:44] <jpatrick> *.org is bust
[12:45] <Fujitsu> jpatrick: Ah.
[12:45] <joejaxx> Good Mrning MOTU
[12:45] <joejaxx> Morning*
[12:45] <Fujitsu> You could probably poke ~admins into merging them manually.
[12:46] <persia> LucidFox: You'll want to add a fair bit more to the request
[12:46] <LucidFox> if that means the link... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=qconf
[12:47] <joejaxx> is there an reason mom would produce a confluct and the part that conflicts is exactly the same?
[12:47] <persia> LucidFox: Link, and status, but link is a good start :)
[12:48] <Fujitsu> joejaxx: We had a case of that just before...
[12:48] <LucidFox> status: new
[12:48] <persia> joejaxx: jazza encountered the same issue a little while back.  MoM is perhaps confused, and needs a poke.
[12:48] <Fujitsu> Keeeeeeeybuk!
[12:48] <knights> For /debian/manpages, do I just have a list of the man files with their relative paths, one per line?
[12:48] <jpatrick> Fujitsu: hmm, but how?
[12:48] <joejaxx> persia: oho k because the kazehakase merge i was looking at was like that
[12:49] <Repsa_Jih> I have another question, how do reviewers build packages from sources? Because I got a FTBFS for my package, but it builds fine on my machine.
[12:49] <joejaxx> i actually need to see who did it last so i can ask them if i can do it
[12:49] <Repsa_Jih> And I want to reproduce the error.
[12:49] <Fujitsu> jpatrick: File a support request at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad, requesting the accounts be merged. It should be fairly clear you own both, I think.
[12:49] <knights> Hi JoeJaxx!
[12:49] <knights> Any news on fluxbuntu?
[12:49] <jpatrick> Fujitsu: ok, I'll do that later, but now -> lunch
[12:49] <joejaxx> knights: hello :) how do i know you? :)
[12:49] <joejaxx> knights: oh
[12:49] <joejaxx> lool
[12:50] <persia> Repsa_Jih: I used `sbuild -A -d hardy annchienta_1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc` to build that (or rather, to FTBFS)
[12:50] <joejaxx> knights: yes i am going to build when i get back home
[12:50] <Repsa_Jih> Ok
[12:50] <joejaxx> knights: :)
[12:50] <knights> joejaxx: I e-mailed you recently about the PPC version and the PC RC not booting for me
[12:51] <joejaxx> knights: oh ok, do  you have a date for that?
[12:51] <knights> I expect it will be FAST tho :)
[12:51] <joejaxx> for that email that is :)
[12:51] <knights> yeah, hold on
[12:51] <joejaxx> persia: oh ok i was just wondering if there was something different that had to be done when that happens
[12:52] <joejaxx> persia: because it was exactly the same
[12:52] <persia> joejaxx: Do your best to confirm the files are really the same, and then use the Debian version?
[12:52] <knights> joejaxx: 31st Oct, allcoms at gmail
[12:52] <joejaxx> persia: ok
[12:53] <joejaxx> knights: ok i will take a look for that email
[12:53] <persia> cyberix: I get lintian and linda output on the binaries with the flags in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[12:53] <persia> cyberix: Most importantly, /usr/games/pq is not executable, so it doesn't run :(
[12:54] <knights> OK, so my man files are in <progname>/man, so in <progname>/debian/manfiles I put stuff like
[12:54] <knights> ./man/manfile.1
[12:55] <knights> or do I need to put the full path?
[12:55] <knights> sorry ../man/manfile.1
[12:55] <persia> knights: You probably want "man/manfile.N", without the leading "./"
[12:56] <knights> Thanks persia!
[12:59] <bluekuja> pochu, I'm getting only high port numbers for now
[12:59] <bluekuja> pochu, using randomly port chooser
[12:59] <SWAT> is Medibuntu legitimate? (or is it something like Automatix?)
[13:00] <elkbuntu> it's not official, no
[13:00] <bluekuja> pochu, [Port: 6882]
[13:00] <bluekuja> pochu, got fixed then...acking your request
[13:01] <SWAT> elkbuntu, hmmm, ok, thanks.
[13:01] <pochu> bluekuja: cheers
[13:02] <SWAT> in that case, it's strange it's promoted on the restricted formats page (due to libdvdcss) etc.  I can imagine that a lot of new users will use it
[13:02] <Hobbsee> pochu: done
[13:03] <pochu> Thanks :)
[13:03] <cyberix> persia: Interresting. Will examine.
[13:04] <rexbron> Does anyone know of a good example of a get-orig-source rule?
[13:07] <persia> rexbron: Did the examples I gave you yesterday not include one that worked for you?
[13:07] <rexbron> persia: the wiki page explains how to use uscan, were their others?
[13:08] <persia> rexbron: There was one in the recipies section, and the other in the section about changing the original tarball.
[13:08] <rexbron> I will review motu/recipes
[13:09] <persia> rexbron: You might also want to check the section in the packaging guide about changing the original tarball.
[13:10] <persia> rexbron: LucidFox's looks pretty good, for a uscan based repack (http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/qconf-0711030750/qconf-1.4/debian/rules)
[13:13] <rexbron> persia: except there is a typo in .PHONY :)
[13:13] <rexbron> grt-orig-source
[13:13] <persia> rexbron: Thanks.  I'll add that as a comment :)
[13:15] <rexbron> persia: my main issue was I do not know how to use sed or awk to get the version number, but I will modify his example to suit genpo.
[13:16] <persia> rexbron: So the issue with building a regular expression?
[13:16] <persia> rexbron: `man -S 7 regex` might help.
[13:16] <rexbron> basically, ya. I found sed and awk a bit daunting to read
[13:16] <rexbron> read/understand
[13:17] <persia> rexbron: Sorry.  It's my preferred regex format, so I've been encouraging people :)  I'd be happy to walk you through a line, or troubleshoot something, if you'd like.
[13:18] <rexbron> persia: I have a regex list from a python book, would that be applicable?
[13:18] <persia> rexbron: I think python uses a slightly different format, but I'm not sure (both perl & ruby use the same different format)
[13:20] <persia> LucidFox: upid 503 commented.
[13:20]  * persia ceases REVUing until REVU day (starts in ~21 hours)
[13:21] <rexbron> persia: if you could walk me through the regex in the link you sent, I would appreciate it.
[13:22] <persia> The qconf example?
[13:22] <rexbron> yes
[13:22] <persia> OK.  We have s/.*<upstream-version>\(.*\)<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p
[13:22] <Hobbsee> persia: nah, keep going.  then you can revu the fixed packages again :P
[13:23] <persia> Hobbsee: No, I'm trying to split oxine, and I want to finish before I fall asleep, while still answering questions, etc.
[13:24] <Hobbsee> persia: ahhh
[13:25] <persia> So, it looks for the string between the first two '/' characters, and replaces with the string between the second two '/' characters, and prints the results (s/this/that/p)
[13:26] <rexbron> ok
[13:28] <knights> Not fair!
[13:28] <knights> Why is debuild not working now?
[13:28] <persia> The first string consists of '.*' which means "as many characters as possible while still meeting other conditions", "<upstream-version>" which is just those characters, '\(' which is really just '(': the \ is for a shell escapem '.*' which is as much as possible again, '\)', which is ')' escaped, "</upstream-version>", which is another literal, and another '.*'
[13:28] <knights> I started it using 'debuild -us -uc' ans it starte to compile
[13:29] <knights> but then I CTRL-C it, thought I might change something, changed my mind, then ran debuild -us -uc again but now it doesn't start compiling
[13:30] <knights> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
[13:30] <persia> The "(foo)" construction is special: it indicates that "foo" should be saved in a buffer, for later use.  As this is the first parentheses, this is buffer #1
[13:30] <knights> what happened?
[13:31] <persia> knights: Your source dir got corrupted.  Try `debian/rules clean`.  If that doesn't work, your package suffers from the "Cannot be built twice" bug, and should be fixed.  You can usually get the old state by deleting the working directory, and using `dpkg-source -x ` in the parent directory.
[13:32] <persia> So, back to sed: when looking at the replacement string, it consists of only "\1", which is a special notation to mean buffer #1, or the data that was between the parentheses in the match string.
[13:33] <geser> persia: it depends on how regex is implemented: ( could be a verbatim ( and \( the start of a match buffer and vice versa
[13:33] <rexbron> .....
[13:33] <rexbron> persia: is it acceptable to call a python script that does the same thing?
[13:34] <persia> geser: Not for uquoted regexes fed to sed in a makefile, but in some cases, yes (we're specifically looking at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/qconf-0711030750/qconf-1.4/debian/rules)
[13:34] <persia> rexbron: You'd have to build-depend on python, which isn't so nice.  Otherwise, sure.
[13:35] <geser> persia: first there seems to be ' missing at the start of the sed command
[13:36] <persia> geser: My, you're right.  It was intended to be quoted, and it's not.
[13:37] <persia> rexbron: My apologies: that was perhaps not an ideal example.
[13:37] <geser> how does the output from "uscan --force-download --dehs" usually looks like?
[13:37] <ScottK> rexbron: The Python regex syntax is unique.
[13:38] <persia> geser: It can look like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43116/
[13:39] <rexbron> persia: see the dehs output makes the regex make sense
[13:39] <rexbron> *seeing
[13:39]  * cyberix feels tasked
[13:39] <cyberix> dh_md5sums doesn't seem to do anything
[13:39] <cyberix> and it reports no errors
[13:40] <rexbron> persia: correct me if I am wrong, the sed line places what ever is between the two tags into buffer #1
[13:40] <rexbron> in this case, the upstream version number
[13:41] <geser> persia: \( \) are the matching ones, ( ) are verbatim ones
[13:41] <persia> rexbron: That's the idea.
[13:41] <geser> cyberix: what do you expect from dh_md5sums to do?
[13:41] <rexbron> persia: .* <= not sure what that means, everything before?
[13:42] <persia> geser: Hrm.  I thought I usually did it the other way.
[13:42] <persia> rexbron: '.' means something (any character), '*' means any number (including 0) of the preceeding character
[13:43] <cyberix> geser: I expect it to create a file with md5sums for some other files
[13:44] <geser> persia: it's the other way with sed -r
[13:44] <persia> geser: Ah.  That's it.  Thanks.
[13:46] <rexbron> persia: ok, think I understand now. Thanks for your time
[13:46] <persia> rexbron: Sure.  Thanks for working on the package.  I'm looking forward to using it.
[13:47] <rexbron> :)
[13:54] <persia> Could anyone point me at a good guide for splitting packages with debhelper?  http://wiki.debian.org/PkgSplit is frustrating me, in part because the sample package no longer exists.
[14:03] <cyberix> How does dh_md5sums decide what to do?
[14:04] <cyberix> It gives an error, if control file is missing.
[14:04] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:04] <cyberix> I'm not sure why it needs it
[14:04] <cyberix> But maybe that is not my problem
[14:05] <bddebian> cyberix: debian/control ?
[14:06] <cyberix> yep
[14:06] <cyberix> It would be really nice to know what the script currently is/isn't doing
[14:06] <persia> cyberix: man dh_md5sums and less /usr/bin/dh_md5sums might help...
[14:08] <bddebian> Not to mention that debian/control is probably the most important file in a package :-)
[14:09] <RainC1> hi
[14:09] <persia> RainC1: Hi!
[14:09] <bddebian> Heya RainC1
[14:09] <cyberix> bddebian: I wasn't questioning that.
[14:09] <rexbron> Question regarding re-rolled tarballs, should the version number of the orig.tar.gz be changed?
[14:10] <cyberix> bddebian: But the information might help in reasoning
[14:10] <rexbron> ie, <app>.dfsg1.orig.tar.gz
[14:10] <persia> rexbron: You probably want something like pacakge-X.Y+dsfg.1-<revision>
[14:10] <bddebian> rexbron: ...
[14:10] <RainCT> I'm looking for something to merge, any suggestion? :)
[14:10] <bddebian> RainCT: Feel free to grab any of mine
[14:10] <rexbron> bddebian: I may have asked this question like 6 months ago.. :p
[14:10] <persia> RainCT: You can have bacula, if you like
[14:11] <bddebian> rexbron: No, persia beat me to the answer as always :-)
[14:11] <persia> bddebian: OK.  You get the next question ...
[14:11]  * persia requests a question to be posed...
[14:12] <RainCT> hehe
[14:12] <rexbron> persia, bddebian: that is in the changelog, is it not? Should the <app>.orig.tar.gz be vesioned aswell?
[14:13] <persia> bddebian: Don't forget to explain why :)
[14:13] <RainCT> persia: ok, I'll try with bacula. seems a pretty big package..
[14:14] <bddebian> rexbron: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz
[14:15] <persia> RainCT: It is indeed big, and a bit messy, but the patches should be fairly well organised, and both Debian and Upstream are pretty quick to merge things.
[14:25] <RainCT> (do u read me?)
[14:27] <persia> RainCT: Sorry: you left about 30 seconds after your last broadcast...
[14:27] <rexbron> persia, bddebian: RFC, http://pastebin.ca/759768
[14:28] <RainCT> persia: were you saying something?
[14:28] <RainCT> (I just did a little test, the router doesn't like my PC :P)
[14:29] <persia> RainCT: No, just apologising for not responding to your ping quickly enough to support your test.
[14:30] <RainCT> ah, I was still in here?
[14:30] <RainCT> well, isn't that importat. thanks anyways :)
[14:33] <rexbron> bddebian: Sorry to be a pain, but did you see the pastebin link I sent you?
[14:34] <persia> rexbron: He's being beaten over someone else's mistake in a secret room.  I'll take a look.
[14:34] <bddebian> rexbron: Are you asking if that is correct?
[14:34] <bddebian> persia: :-)
[14:34] <persia> rexbron: You don't need line 8, but other than that, the important question is, does it work for you?
[14:35] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[14:35] <cyberix> persia: I'm now setting executing permission in rules file. I wonder, if it works.
[14:35] <bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
[14:36] <cyberix> persia: I've fixed other issues. Except that lintian complains about hardy not existing.
[14:36] <persia> cyberix: You might also look into dh_fixperms
[14:36] <bddebian> cyberix: dh_fixperms would be preferred
[14:36]  * bddebian curses persia again :-)
[14:36] <persia> bddebian: Just for that, I'm stealing wsjt.
[14:38] <DarkSun88> bddebian: Hi :)
[14:38] <knights> I've just ran lintian on my new deb and its complained about a few things. Can I make my adjustments then just re-run 'debuild -us -uc' or do I have to run another, clean-up command first?
[14:39] <cyberix> "It makes all files in bin/ directories, /usr/games/ and etc/init.d executable (v4 only)."
[14:39] <cyberix> I'm using debhelper 5
[14:39] <persia> cyberix: Hrm.  Perhaps I'm out of date.  There should either be a replacement, or that really means (v4+ only)
[14:40] <cyberix> I'll try that then
[14:40] <knights> or do I just manually deleted the debs, .dsc files etc?
[14:41] <knights> delete
[14:41] <persia> knights: If your clean rule does everything it is supposed to do, you can just edit and rerun.  If not, delete the working directory, unpack the .dsc, and make your changes, and rebuild.
[14:43] <knights> Have I got to use my Launchpad name as my mainter name?
[14:44] <knights> maintainer name
[14:45] <persia> knights: You must use the name on your GPG key.  Ideally this will match the name on your government issued identification (or getting your GPG key into the web of trust will be difficult)
[14:45] <knights> Ack! So I NEED to get a GPG key now too? Yuk!
[14:47] <knights> I don't know anything about this 'web-of-trust' either
[14:49] <persia> knights: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust
[14:49] <knights> Thats the page I'm on :)
[14:50] <persia> knights: Essentially, it's a mechanism to prove you are you, so that as long as people trust you, they don't need to check the package as carefully.
[14:50] <knights> He! I can't prove and nor do I fully trust I'm me, so that's buggered that one eh? :D
[14:51] <persia> knights: Well, if a government believes you're you, that's usually enough.  You can pretend, and nobody has to know :)
[14:51] <knights> I don't trust the govt to believe I'm me
[14:51] <knights> ;)
[14:53]  * persia grumbles at seahorse failing to have enough threading in the code
[14:59] <rexbron> persia: This is fun, bash does not like multiline (even when continued with \ ) command substitution
[14:59] <persia> rexbron: debian/rules is not a shell script (or am I confused?)
[15:04] <rexbron> persia: doesn't make just exec the commands in a shell?
[15:05] <rexbron> as I am getting bash errors...
[15:05] <persia> rexbron: No.  It execs each line individually in the shell
[15:06] <rexbron> what is the appropreiate way to test it then, calling rules get-orig-source?
[15:09] <rexbron> persia: also from testing it myself, the get-orig source line will not work in the example you gave me
[15:09] <rexbron> it needs a single $ and forgot to include the single quote at the start of the sed expression
[15:09] <persia> rexbron: From qconf?  Geser pointed out it didn't have enough quotes.  Could you pastebin your error?
[15:10] <rexbron> oh did he, ok then
[15:10] <rexbron> not I got it to work
[15:10] <rexbron> But I will paste bin it when I know it works in the rules file
[15:10] <persia> rexbron: Cool.  My apologies: I have lots of information, but the details aren't always 100% correct.
[15:11] <persia> rexbron: If you know it works, and you've tested it, no need to pastebin: just upload it :)
[15:21] <rexbron> hmm
[15:23] <cyberix> My rules file has the following line
[15:23] <cyberix> binary: binary-indep
[15:23] <cyberix> I copied it from somewhere
[15:23] <cyberix> Does it make any sense?
[15:23] <cyberix> The package doesn't actually have anything to compile
[15:24] <rexbron> persia: http://pastebin.ca/759812
[15:26] <persia> cyberix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming, it makes sense if binary-indep does something, which it should if you plan to create a binary independent package.
[15:28] <persia> Each line like "foo: bar" represents a dependency.  In order for "foo" to execute, "bar" much first execute.  In this case, that line indicates that in order to build all the binary packages, one must first build the binary-independent packages (whereas the line might also be "binary: binary-arch" or "binary: binary-indep binary-arch")
[15:28] <persia> You'll want to be sure the "binary-indep" rule creates the arch: all .deb file, and then everything is golden.
[15:33] <rexbron> hmm why is make shorting this line version=$(uscan --force-download --dehs | sed -n 's/.*<upstream-version>\(.*\)<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p') to version=<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p') && \
[15:34] <rexbron> as having it show up as shorted explains the bash error
[15:34] <ion_> You need to escape the $
[15:34] <ion_> Replace it with $$
[15:35] <Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone look if this is ok for multiverse? http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/avidemux-0711031810/ -- its linda and lintian-clean
[15:35] <persia> ion_: Excellent.  Thank you.
[15:37] <knights> My rules file contains a 'dh_shlibdeps -a' but lintian is telling me I'm missing a 'dpkg-shlibdeps' can I just add this anywhere (at the end) or does it need to go in a certain place/order?
[15:39] <knights> anywhere in the rules file, of course
[15:40] <knights> persia?
[15:41] <persia> knights: I think that belongs in binary-arch:, but I'm not sure (and not thinking well at this time of day)
[15:42] <knights> OK, at the end of the binary-arch section then?
[15:43] <RainCT> persia: * Apply 2.2.4-lost-block.patch from upstream bug#964 to address data loss
[15:43] <persia> RainCT: That's already in Debian.  Drop it :)
[15:43] <RainCT> where's that patch? there isn't any file called like that
[15:43] <RainCT> ok
[15:44] <rexbron> ...
[15:45] <persia> RainCT: It looks like I made a mistake and modified src/stored/append.c directly.  Sorry about that.
[15:45] <rexbron> when I echo the variable, instead of giving me the correct upstream version, I am getting a list of them
[15:45] <rexbron> 1.3.5 1.3.1 0.9.6 0.4.0 0.4.0 0.4.0
[15:45]  * rexbron is confused
[15:45] <RainCT> persia: oh, ok
[15:46] <persia> rexbron: Interesting.  You might play with other uscan output formats to get the right thing.
[15:46] <LucidFox> So, sync requests must have the "sync" tag?
[15:46] <persia> LucidFox: No, but it makes them easier to find.
[15:47] <LucidFox> Ah.
[15:48] <rexbron> persia: the really odd thing is if I run it by itself, i get the correct version
[15:48] <rexbron> if I run it in the rules file, I get a list
[15:49] <persia> rexbron: That is unexpected.
[15:49] <rexbron> (and most of them are not even the correct numbers
[15:49] <knights> I've got a SETUID file in my package- how do I add a 'Lintian override' for it?
[15:50] <persia> knights: First, why do you have a setuid file?
[15:50] <knights> Its a configuration tool
[15:50] <LucidFox> knights> what package? setuid files are highly unwelcome because of security risks
[15:51] <persia> knights: OK.  Why does it need to be setuid?  Can it not require that only root run it (or a suitably privileged user through sudo and the like)?
[15:51] <knights> xdtv contains xdtv_v4l-conf
[15:51] <cyberix> persia: That is what I'm doing. I was wondering why binary: gets executed at all. :-)
[15:52] <knights> To be honest I've never had to run xdtv_v4l-conf - xdtv has always worked without running it for me