[02:37] <smartboyhw> Good morning.
[02:42] <ahoneybun> good afternoon
[02:59] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1181053] package kdm 4:4.10.2-0ubuntu2.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed pre-remova... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1181053 (by nilton rosao)
[04:10] <ScottK> apachelogger: Once you find my kdepim-runtime patch again, it might be a good idea to have a look at  bug 982889 and fix up kdm for those that still use it.
[06:02] <soee> good morning
[06:08] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1181083] "delete" mini-button in text boxes covers right-to-left text @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1181083 (by Ibrahim M. Ghazal)
[11:48] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:49] <soee> hi Blizzz
[11:49] <soee> BluesKaj,
[11:50] <BluesKaj> Hi soee
[14:41] <markey> Riddell: "<strohel> Anyone with contact to KUbuntu packagers please tell them they are applying already applied patch to 2.7.1: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/amarok/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_qtwebkit_crash.diff"
[14:41] <markey> 2.7.1 already has the anti-crash fix
[16:06] <palasso> JontheEchidna, I added a proposed patch for this: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314549 I think it might fix the issue (perhaps it'd need a change or two). Plz take a look at it. thnx ;)
[16:07] <JontheEchidna> palasso: thanks. Some more severe bugs popped up right before release so I ran out of time to get to that one
[16:08] <palasso> np I hope it'll make it for 13.10. I hope my proposed patch works out and saves you time to work on other things ;)
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> :)
[16:09] <shadeslayer> palasso: I don't see a patch there :P
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674464/
[16:10] <palasso> shadeslayer, there is an attachment I added. It's backend.cpp with the changed I propose
[16:10] <palasso> *changes
[16:10] <shadeslayer> palasso: it's better to post patches instead of whole files
[16:10] <shadeslayer> plus, maybe propose it on RB
[16:11] <palasso> Ohhh sorry. I didn't know how to do this. It's my first time :(
[16:11] <JontheEchidna> nah it's fine for a small patch, I'll just take a look at it right now.
[16:11] <shadeslayer> ^^
[16:11] <palasso> shadeslayer, what is RB?
[16:11] <shadeslayer> palasso: when you post a file, developers don't know what's changed
[16:12] <shadeslayer> so you just post a list of your changes instead of the whole file :)
[16:12] <shadeslayer> palasso: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/
[16:12] <JontheEchidna> palasso: did you try compiling this? It doesn't work here
[16:12] <palasso> I see... I just thought that everyone uses a diff tool for patches to see the differences :D
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> palasso: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674476/
[16:13] <palasso> JontheEchidna, no I haven't set up a compiler :( I tried to proofread it manually
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> palasso: ah, ok. I'll take a look at it and see if I can fix it
[16:14] <palasso> JontheEchidna, it needs the fix I thought it'd need
[16:14] <palasso> check out the comment I wrote
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> yeah it should be something minor like that
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> oh, ParseQuoteWord wants a reference to a pointer
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> palasso: all I had to do: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674532/
[16:29] <palasso> I see
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> palasso: seems to work :)
[16:29] <palasso> Nice ;)
[16:30] <palasso> shadeslayer, just created a KDE Identity https://identity.kde.org/index.php?r=people/view&uid=vpalassopoulos ;)
[16:30] <JontheEchidna> I tried with both a muon and synaptic generated file
[16:30] <shadeslayer> awesome :)
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> palasso: http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=libqapt.git&a=commit&h=4ae0602d0f81f48f58395966a8bce8e57226cb8e
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> thanks again!
[16:36] <palasso> np yw and thnx for the software JontheEchidna :)
[17:53] <lordievader> Good evening.
[18:53] <soee> hiho
[18:54] <ahoneybun> soee: hi
[19:15] <jdoles> Since you are supposedly the developers of Kubuntu, one of you should be able to tell me (or better: give me the commands) how to correctly setup Pulse Audio in a way that works. In particular the part where I don't get just a dummy device.
[19:16] <jdoles> Googling for dummy device kde returns a lot of random and wrong suggestions (like adding a user to the audio group).
[19:17] <jdoles> Since you designed the system, I kindly ask one of you to document how it is supposed to work including preconditions for all files, etc.
[19:17] <ahoneybun> jdoles: you are troubleshooting a audio device?
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: I don't understand the question.
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: there is nothing wrong with the audio device.
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: it is the software.
[19:18] <ScottK> jdoles: This isn't a support channel.
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: or the configuration.
[19:18] <jdoles> ScottK: this isn't support.
[19:18] <ScottK> FWIW, for me it just works.
[19:18] <jdoles> ScottK: I want to know how you designed it.
[19:18] <ScottK> It most certainly is.
[19:18] <ScottK> We didn't design it.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: yes, you did.
[19:19] <ScottK> We ship it the way upstream KDE did it.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: wrong.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: Kubuntu also includes a configuration for Pulse Audio.
[19:19] <ScottK> OK, so me where it's different?
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: Pulse Audio can be configured in three ways according to Freedesktop.org.
[19:19] <ScottK> Which isn't kde.org.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: even ignoring that third party documentation.
[19:19] <ScottK> So that's irrelevnat.
[19:20] <jdoles> ScottK: are you saying I should ask the Ubuntu developers?
[19:20] <ScottK> No.
[19:20] <ahoneybun> ScottK: I need help with testing a xml file to make a docbook
[19:20] <jdoles> ScottK: someone needs to tell me how Pulse Audio is supposed to work.
[19:20] <ScottK> jdoles: No.  No one NEEDS to.
[19:21] <ScottK> ahoneybun: I'm not the best person for that.
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: you might want to change that slogan.
[19:21] <ahoneybun> ScottK: ok thanks
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: Kubuntu -- We don't know what we are doing and we are sure as hell are not going to help you.
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: better?
[19:21] <ScottK> jdoles: This is friendly for me and frankly more friendly than you attitude deserves.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: my attitude?
[19:22] <ScottK> Yep.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: you are basically giving me the finger.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: and then it is my attitude.
[19:22] <ScottK> No, you aren't reading what I'm writing.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: you distribute Kubuntu, which is a complete operating system.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: I ask a simple question about which Pulse Audio configuration is the correct one.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: this is basic information.
[19:23] <ScottK> Right and you want configuration help.  This isn't the channel for that.
[19:23] <jdoles> ScottK: NO
[19:23] <palasso> If someone reads todays chatlog of #kubuntu will know that jdoles has an awful attitude towards other ppl and keeps complaining all the time
[19:23] <jdoles> ScottK: I want to know how you designed it.
[19:23] <ahoneybun> jdoles: we take parts from upstream and configure it
[19:23] <jdoles> palasso: keeps complaining?
[19:23] <ScottK> jdoles: Then look at the code.
[19:23] <ahoneybun> well the devels
[19:23] <ahoneybun> devs
[19:23] <jdoles> ScottK: the code doesn't tell anyone that.
[19:24] <jdoles> ScottK: there is a difference between how it is intended and what it actually does.
[19:24] <yofel> you... could install another copy in a VM and check what the default configuration is?
[19:24] <yofel> most of us don't touch pulseaudio at all
[19:24] <jdoles> yofel: no, I can't.
[19:24] <jdoles> yofel: because a VM would require a working sound system.
[19:24] <jdoles> yofel: which... I don't.
[19:25] <jdoles> have
[19:25] <jdoles> Can all of you smart asses say something useful and cooperative for a change?
[19:25] <ahoneybun> jdoles: by joining this room you are agreeing to use proper language
[19:25] <ScottK> Right, because insults encourage me to stop doing $work and focus on your needs.
[19:25] <jdoles> You are saying you supposedly develop this, but you cannot say how the audio system is supposed to be setup.
[19:25] <yofel> it's hard to tell you something I don't know...
[19:26] <jdoles> yofel: now, that's a valid excuse.
[19:26] <jdoles> yofel: ScottK however is saying that it is not the task for this channel to be able to point at a resource which documents how Kubuntu Pulse Audio has been designed.
[19:26] <jdoles> That is wrong.
[19:26] <ScottK> jdoles: I already told you, we follow KDE in this, so it's a standard KDE setup.  There's no such thing as  Kubuntu pulse audio design.
[19:27] <jdoles> ScottK: you are distributing an OS.
[19:27] <ScottK> I already said this like three times.
[19:27] <jdoles> ScottK: KDE is not an OS.
[19:27] <yofel> kubuntu pulseaudio? We use whatever the default KDE configuration of phonon, and ubuntu's default configuration of pulseaudio is
[19:27] <jdoles> yofel: and yet Kubuntu is noth supported by Ubuntu or Canonical.
[19:27] <jdoles> Hence, you cannot just say "we have got nothing to do with this".
[19:28] <jdoles> KDE people say that my distro is broken.
[19:28] <jdoles> My distro being what you created.
[19:28] <ScottK> jdoles: Where did they say this.
[19:28] <jdoles> ScottK: this afternoon.
[19:28] <jdoles> ScottK: in #kde.
[19:28] <jdoles> ScottK: it is a popular opinion that Kubuntu is a broken KDE distribution.
[19:29] <jdoles> ScottK: so, perhaps you might want to fix that at the same time.
[19:29] <jdoles> ahoneybun: there is nothing wrong with my language.
[19:29] <ScottK> Which is deeply ironic since we're probably the least patched KDE distro out there.
[19:29] <jdoles> ScottK: no, it is not.
[19:29] <ScottK> I'm done.  Have a nice life.
[19:29] <jdoles> ScottK: they just think that you are really bad at the system portions of it.
[19:30] <claydoh> it is a popular opinion that opinions on an irc channel are a dimea dozen
[19:30] <ahoneybun> jdoles: cursing is not proper in this room or any IRC room
[19:30] <jdoles> ahoneybun: I did not curse.
[19:30] <jdoles> ahoneybun: and can't you say anything useful?
[19:30] <jdoles> claydoh: and please think of your own sentences.
[19:31] <jdoles> Are you sure you are developers?
[19:31] <shadeslayer> jdoles: just to make this abundantly clear, we do not mess with the PA bits
[19:31] <claydoh> I did, I just readmy #kubuntu backlog
[19:31] <jdoles> It sounds more like you are a bunch of wannabes.
[19:31] <jdoles> shadeslayer: and I am sure the Ubuntu and KDE people could not care less.
[19:31] <palasso> jdoles, if you want sth useful let me tell you that support is done in #kubuntu This channel is for development!
[19:31] <shadeslayer> the base OS is the same as Ubuntu, Xubuntu, whatever
[19:32] <ahoneybun> I'm not a developer, I just try to help.
[19:32] <jdoles> shadeslayer: so, show me the documentation for Pulse Audio for my system version which says how it is supposed to be setup.
[19:32] <jdoles> shadeslayer: if there is no documentation, it is impossible to debug.
[19:32] <claydoh> jdoles spent some time harrasing #kubuntu already, palasso
[19:32] <jdoles> claydoh: you call is harassing.
[19:33] <jdoles> claydoh: I call it discovering that nobody there has any idea of the state of the world.
[19:33] <palasso> claydoh, I'm sorry... I guess it's time for this channel now :D
[19:33] <yofel> jdoles: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User? Note that we do NOT run it as a system daemon
[19:33] <claydoh> yes, you were being unreasonable with those who were attemting to help
[19:33] <shadeslayer> jdoles: you're asking the wrong person, since I do not work in that area
[19:33] <jdoles> shadeslayer: then why are you so unwise to interfere?
[19:34] <jdoles> shadeslayer: it sounds like a waste of my time to talk to me about things you don't know.
[19:34] <jdoles> claydoh: I was the only one being reasonable.
[19:34] <shadeslayer> sigh, I'm not interfering, I'm just trying to make it clear that we know very little about PA since most of us do not work in that area
[19:34] <shadeslayer> and for most of us, everything just works
[19:34] <jdoles> shadeslayer: it was becoming clear already that you are not organized to create an operating system.
[19:35] <claydoh> jdoles: sure, you were:(
[19:35] <shadeslayer> ...
[19:35] <jdoles> shadeslayer: this is not a personal attack.
[19:35] <palasso> I think that jdoles is purposefully trolling......
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: I think you should learn to read.
[19:35] <shadeslayer> jdoles: what else would you call it
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: my audio does not work.
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: I want it fixed.
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: fix it or help me, and I can help myself.
[19:36] <jdoles> palasso: yet, all you do is trolling.
[19:36] <claydoh> palasso: I disagree,somewhatbut the actions are there
[19:36] <jdoles> shadeslayer: an assessment
[19:36] <jdoles> shadeslayer: it's just something you take personally, which you shouldn't.
[19:36] <jdoles> Perhaps everyone who can help works at Google and has an IQ over 150.
[19:37] <shadeslayer> :/
[19:37] <jdoles> You shouldn't have any hard feelings about that.
[19:37] <yofel> telling people that try to help you that they don't know what they're doing is not particulary motivating, you know...
[19:38] <jdoles> yofel: it isn't meant to be motivating.
[19:38] <yofel> being asked one and the same question by different people is annoying, sure
[19:38] <yofel> but not all people were in the channel last time you were asked or didn't read/notice it
[19:38] <jdoles> yofel: not only the same question, but depending on the audience dumb questions too.
[19:39] <claydoh> jdoles:  then why would one treat volunteersthis way
[19:39] <ahoneybun> shadeslayer: can you help with buildign a test package for the docbook?
[19:39] <jdoles> yofel: meaning questions that anyone with an understanding of the domain would not ask.
[19:39] <maco> hey so guess what there are like 2 people in all of Ubuntu who know how to fix audio drivers
[19:39] <maco> One of them is currently deployed in Iraq
[19:39] <yofel> so? what do you expect? a set of highly trained IT professionals in a community support channel?
[19:39] <shadeslayer> ahoneybun: gah, docbook, /me runs away
[19:39] <jdoles> claydoh: just because you are a volunteer does not mean you can do a bad job.
[19:39] <ahoneybun> lol
[19:39] <yofel> some people are that, but not everyone knows everything
[19:39] <shadeslayer> I'm not touching that stuff ever again
[19:39] <jdoles> claydoh: in the real world, you can also get fired from being a volunteer.
[19:39] <claydoh> lol there you go
[19:39] <maco> So, maybe you can go visit him on a military base in Iraq and get some help
[19:39] <maco> but otherwise, just wait for his next shore leave
[19:40] <shadeslayer> or maybe you know, post a question in askubuntu, file a bug, or a post on the forums
[19:40] <ahoneybun> yofel: what about you?
[19:40] <lordievader> jdoles: Most of the people in the support channels are just home-users who want to give back to the community.
[19:40] <maco> he's one of the top  5 audio people for all of linux, really
[19:40] <shadeslayer> so many support options
[19:40] <jdoles> maco: this is not about audio drivers.
[19:40] <claydoh> jdoles: inthe real world,I would ask you to leave my store  and loose your business
[19:40] <maco> jdoles: the interaction of pulse and drivers is always lovely fun
[19:41] <jdoles> maco: it's about the infrastructure between generic drivers and pulse.
[19:41] <yofel> ahoneybun: I work in IT, but what I'm doing here is mostly learned by years of experience in volunteer work
[19:41] <maco> i used to know how some of that works, because i lived with that audio guy and he taught me stuff
[19:41] <maco> but i quit doing open source 2 years ago and life has been so much better since then
[19:41] <jdoles> maco: one of these things is whether it runs as a system user or not, which my research says that it doesn't in Kubuntu.
[19:41] <maco> pulse runs systemwide
[19:41] <jdoles> But I am sure there are other properties which make it not work.
[19:41] <maco> thats the case in ubuntu, kubuntu, whatever
[19:41] <shadeslayer> on an related Audio note, has anyone used an external DAC with *buntu?
[19:41] <ahoneybun> yofel: I got that branch set up btw
[19:41] <jdoles> maco: that's not what the freedesktop.org page said.
[19:42] <maco> hmm maybe i forgot then
[19:42] <jdoles> maco: the permissions are set up like case 2.
[19:42] <yofel> ahoneybun: ah, did you find out what went wrong?
[19:42]  * ahoneybun does not know what a DAC is
[19:42] <shadeslayer> jdoles: does /proc/asound/cards list your cards?
[19:42] <maco> my sound's worked since i fixed my driver in 2008 so i stopped caring
[19:42] <shadeslayer> ahoneybun: Digital to Audio Converter
[19:42] <ahoneybun> yofel: not sure but I got it
[19:42] <jdoles> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/PerfectSetup
[19:42] <ahoneybun> oh ok
[19:42] <jdoles> See that
[19:42] <jdoles> shadeslayer: yes
[19:42] <yofel> well, that's good at least
[19:42] <shadeslayer> ^
[19:42] <jdoles> Yes, I can think of that myself too.
[19:43]  * maco goes back to not giving a squirrel's toe about people who expect others to fix code for them
[19:43] <shadeslayer> I am uncertain whether #pulseaudio does support
[19:43] <jdoles> I don't want to crush your little souls, but I am intelligent, but I cannot guess how you randomly setup things.
[19:43] <shadeslayer> but it's worth a shot
[19:43] <ahoneybun> yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/raring
[19:43] <jdoles> and I am intelligent*
[19:44]  * claydoh goes and cooks dinner, not a pleasant bit of catchup after a 16 hour day in the warehouse w/o ac
[19:45]  * ahoneybun needs help testing his exported xml files for the DocBook
[19:46] <maco> jdoles: look dude, this channel has 0 to do with pulse audio alright? it's ONLY about the kde desktop applications. it has JACK to do with the audio infrastructure, which is handled by an infrastructure team at Canonical
[19:46] <maco> by which i really mean by one person on that team
[19:46] <maco> who is very likely asleep right now, since he's in australia
[19:46] <jdoles> maco: what is his name?
[19:46] <maco> Luke
[19:47] <jdoles> Really? No, wonder it works so badly.
[19:47] <maco> audio has never, from what i can tell, been a true priority of canonical's
[19:47] <shadeslayer> just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it works badly
[19:47] <jdoles> The servers just need to keep on running.
[19:47] <shadeslayer> it works for numerous other people
[19:47] <maco> for that matter, when luke gets a chance to get a breather from audio, he works on accessibility, which has ALSO never been a true priority
[19:47] <jdoles> Ubuntu: Linux for servers :)
[19:48] <maco> accessibility in ubuntu is in an absolutely abysmal state
[19:48] <jdoles> Why did they ever market the desktop?
[19:48] <maco> but try getting priority shifted away from unity
[19:48] <jdoles> Or was that just a marketing technique?
[19:49] <maco> people were still using windows xp, 2000, and 98 back when that marketing started
[19:49] <maco> the bar was pretty crappy back then
[19:49] <jdoles> Windows XP audio never failed ;)
[19:49] <maco> well you needed to get a driver
[19:49] <jdoles> But yes it has many other "issues".
[19:49] <maco> but first you had to get online
[19:49] <maco> OH BUT WAIT
[19:50] <maco> you couldnt get online with windows xp because you needed to get online to download the driver to get online to download... hang on im reapeating myself
[19:50] <jdoles> You also needed to install RAID drivers from a floppy.
[19:50] <shadeslayer> ^^
[19:50] <shadeslayer> this is also going OT btw :P
[19:50] <jdoles> Yes, yes, it was terrible.
[19:50] <ScottK> When was it not OT.
[19:51] <lordievader> maco: Good times, getting wifi drivers without wifi available :)
[19:51] <maco> lordievader: wifi? who said wifi?
[19:51] <maco> lordievader: xp didnt support ETHERNET
[19:51] <lordievader> maco: For me it was allways the wifi :)
[19:51] <jdoles> I don't get one thing: if you don't want to be an OS and don't want to change KDE, then what do you want to do?
[19:51] <maco> ubuntu could at least use ethernet to get the wireless drivers
[19:51] <jdoles> It seems that the empty set of activities remains then,
[19:51] <claydoh> ScottK: do you guys have any use for my now-unused arm dev board,the imx-53?
[19:51] <jdoles> Or you could become source committers for the various kde projects.
[19:52] <maco> some of us have kde commit access
[19:52] <maco> i might still
[19:52] <jdoles> This is a reasonable suggestion, isn't it?
[19:52] <ScottK> claydoh: Not really.
[19:52] <maco> it's strongly encouraged in ubuntu-land to contribute upstream
[19:52] <claydoh> ScottK: or is it now a bit out of date?
[19:52] <maco> or was? i'm not sure it still is
[19:52] <claydoh> ok,
[19:52] <jdoles> If you don't at all have the intention to support an OS with all the manpower that needs, why do it?
[19:52] <ScottK> claydoh: We don't have mx51/53 kernels in the archive.
[19:52] <maco> (what with this stupid app store idea that doesnt involve submitting to debian first anymore)
[19:53] <maco> jdoles: you know this ain't a support channel, right?
[19:53] <jdoles> Clearly you describe yourself as someone who doesn't want to do that.
[19:53] <jdoles> maco: yes, but you aren't developing an OS either.
[19:53] <jdoles> maco: you only want to develop the applications.
[19:53] <jdoles> maco: you don't need an OS for that.
[19:53] <ScottK> And I need to rebuild eglibc for raring/saucy to make a custom version that will work on my mx51 efikas.
[19:53] <maco> jdoles: sure i am, at my paid job, that has NOTHING to do with ubuntu or kubuntu except that many of us run it on our desktops :)
[19:53] <maco> as for this channel...
[19:53] <maco> the kubuntu team works with the ubuntu team to make the OS
[19:54] <maco> most support for *ubuntu (dont care if that's xubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu...whatever) happens on AskUbuntu, in #ubuntu, or on the Ubuntu Forums
[19:55] <lordievader> Or in their own support channels, like #kubuntu, #lubuntu, etc.
[19:55] <maco> you're asking questions about stuff that has nothing to do with kde, you can use the generic ones just fine
[19:55] <jdoles> maco: ScottK said earlier than I shouldn't ask Ubuntu about Kubuntu issues.
[19:56] <jdoles> maco: but I suppose I could install Unity to keep up appearances.
[19:56] <jdoles> maco: I also understand that all those systems are the same.
[20:42] <valorie> oh my goodness, just reading backlog
[20:43] <valorie> who has ops in this channel?
[20:43] <maco> valorie: Riddell, i think
[20:44] <Tm_T> I do
[20:44] <valorie> well, trolls should not be allowed to kill everyone's enthusiasm, IMO
[20:44] <Tm_T> too late
[20:44] <valorie> yeah
[20:45] <ahoneybun> I'm up to doing some work
[20:45] <valorie> let me just say to all the helpful people here without ops: I love you, and you create a wonderful system
[20:46] <valorie> and let's stop feeding trolls
[20:46] <ahoneybun> valorie: I exported the xml with community.kde.org
[20:47] <valorie> great!
[20:47] <valorie> so where did you set that up?
[20:47] <valorie> thanks Tm_T
[20:47] <yofel> Tm_T: thanks
[20:47] <ahoneybun> http://community.kde.org/Kubuntu-Docs/Raring
[20:48] <ahoneybun> Tm_T: thanks that was not nice to see
[20:48] <ahoneybun> yes I need to fix something I know
[20:48] <Tm_T> just ignore such rants
[20:48] <valorie> ahoneybun: did you talk to the www people before setting this up?
[20:48] <ahoneybun> um
[20:48] <valorie> Tm_T: good advice
[20:49] <ahoneybun> I was told to see how it worked
[20:49] <valorie> good reminder for everyone
[20:49] <valorie> ahoneybun: ?
[20:49] <ahoneybun> valorie: no I did not...
[20:50] <ahoneybun> my bad
[20:51] <valorie> imo it's worth talking to the experts
[20:51] <valorie> they are great people
[20:51] <ahoneybun> what for permission or advice on how to make it better?
[20:51] <ahoneybun> #kde-www?
[20:52] <valorie> yes
[20:52] <ahoneybun> for permission to post there?
[20:52] <valorie> not so much permission, as fitting in with the administration of the wiki
[20:52] <ahoneybun> advice then
[20:52] <valorie> now that you have a page, they can look at it
[20:53] <ahoneybun> yea
[20:53] <valorie> it's possible they'll move the page to fit into the organization scheme
[20:53] <ahoneybun> I just want to see if the xml file it shot out will work for what we need before I continue
[20:55] <valorie> cool
[20:55] <ahoneybun> I don't know how to do that
[20:55] <valorie> thanks again for all the work you've been doing on this
[20:55] <valorie> ah, they can tell you that as well
[20:55] <valorie> I've forgotten
[20:55] <valorie> since I didn't blog about it
[20:55] <valorie> lol
[20:56] <ahoneybun> lol
[20:57] <ahoneybun> what do I say
[20:57] <ahoneybun> like what am I trying to do
[20:57] <ahoneybun> make a package?
[20:57] <shadeslayer> send me a sandwich
[20:57] <ahoneybun> ?
[20:58] <shadeslayer> nvm ...
[20:58] <ahoneybun> I get it
[21:01] <valorie> :-)
[21:02] <ahoneybun> what am I doing, making a package?
[21:06] <ahoneybun> valorie: can you jump in and help explain
[21:08] <Blizzz> since there is no news on the website, is kde 4.10.3 from ppa:kubuntu-ppa/ppa good to use (or test)?
[21:08] <ahoneybun> Blizzz: I know somethings from 4.10.3 are on the kubuntu-backports PPA for 12.04
[21:09] <Blizzz> i mean for 13.04
[21:09] <Blizzz> yofel: ^
[21:09] <ahoneybun> Blizzz: I'm just saying that the backports have some of it
[21:09] <ahoneybun> not sure about anything else
[21:10] <Blizzz> k
[21:19] <Riddell> valorie: hmm problems on channel?
[21:20] <valorie> yes, you read my email?
[21:20] <valorie> Tm_T: quieted our troll, but .....
[21:20] <ScottK> Sometimes it's hard to tell who's a troll and who needs education.
[21:20] <ScottK> (at least at first)
[21:21] <Riddell> valorie: I'm happy to give ops to any kubuntu member
[21:22] <valorie> ScottK: sure
[21:23] <valorie> getting ops on a *buntu channel is a bit of a pain
[21:23] <valorie> hopefully someone else steps up!
[21:23] <apachelogger> mh
[21:23] <Riddell> valorie: do you want ops?
[21:23] <yofel> Blizzz: it is usable, it's really only the news item that's missing
[21:24] <apachelogger> "one of you should be able to tell me (or better: give me the commands) how to correctly setup Pulse Audio in a way that works"
[21:24] <apachelogger> support
[21:24] <apachelogger> end of story
[21:24] <valorie> not today, but thank you for the trust, Riddell
[21:24] <apachelogger> valorie: if you get on the council you'll become op anyway :P
[21:24] <valorie> I'll reconsider if others don't step up
[21:24] <valorie> apachelogger: ha
[21:24] <apachelogger> it's not like we have a lack of ops in here
[21:25] <valorie> I did vote for myself, so I got at least one vote!
[21:25] <apachelogger> ^^
[21:25] <ScottK> In my case, I had a lack of knowing how to give myself +o.
[21:25] <valorie> if elected, I will take up ops, and make myself a cheat sheet
[21:25] <valorie> when crunch time comes, i can never remember the relevent commands either
[21:26] <shadeslayer> valorie: likewise :P
[21:26] <ScottK> 31 voters so far, so 1 is not an insignificant fraction of what it takes to win.
[21:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: msg ChanServ op #kubuntu-devel
[21:26] <shadeslayer> ScottK: 31? only? :O
[21:26] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Of 53.
[21:26] <shadeslayer> we only have 53 Kubuntu members?
[21:26] <ScottK> Yep.
[21:27] <apachelogger> "only"
[21:27] <apachelogger> quality > quantity
[21:27] <ScottK> We are elite.
[21:27] <shadeslayer> ^^
[21:27] <ScottK> Riddell himself says so.
[21:27] <apachelogger> and considering only 31 have voted so far I'll argue that quality needs evaluation ^^
[21:27] <shadeslayer> "Linux Mint 15 Most Ambitious Release Ever"
[21:27] <Blizzz> yofel: great, thank you for packaging :)
[21:27]  * shadeslayer falls of his chair
[21:28] <yofel> shadeslayer: I guess hoping for I hope in vain if I think of cleaned up packaging?
[21:28] <yofel> s/hope for//
[21:28] <kubotu> yofel: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[21:28] <shadeslayer> yofel: I don't think that's ever going to happen
[21:29] <shadeslayer> but hey, they had over a 1000 commits in Cinnamon and MATE
[21:29] <shadeslayer> http://ostatic.com/blog/linux-mint-15-most-ambitious-release-ever
[21:29] <yofel> bummer
[21:29] <ScottK> PyQt5 needs packaging if you want to make a clean start on something.
[21:29] <yofel> the last people that advertised commits were some folks that makes something called trinity
[21:30] <yofel> *make
[21:30] <ScottK> I've been slowly adding Kubuntu packaging to https://www.ohloh.net/p/kubuntu-packaging
[21:30] <shadeslayer> did you know that agateau's laptop is called trinity :P
[21:30] <ScottK> If you want to count commits ...
[21:30] <shadeslayer> ruby : 8%
[21:30] <shadeslayer> I bet that's all apachelogger's code
[21:30] <ScottK> Yeah.
[21:31] <yofel> oh, oloh stats, nice
[21:31] <ScottK> That or patches of crap upstream work.
[21:31] <ScottK> Not done yet.  Still adding packages.
[21:31] <shadeslayer> :)
[21:31] <shadeslayer> btw seems like Jessie A. Morris forgot to remove a patch from Amarok
[21:32] <shadeslayer> which is a bit odd that it didn't fail to apply
[21:32] <yofel> lol, I'm second place in commit count o.O
[21:32] <ScottK> Yeah, markey mentioned that earlier today.
[21:32] <shadeslayer> yeah, I'm a bit surprised that the patch didn't fail to apply
[21:33] <shadeslayer> yikes, my laptop is trying to kill me
[21:33] <shadeslayer> just like the dishwasher at Pinea
[21:33] <shadeslayer> *Pineda
[21:34] <yofel> the context is too ambigous
[21:34] <valorie> how is your laptop like a dishwasher?
[21:34] <shadeslayer> it's not, both tried to kill me by zapping me with current
[21:34] <yofel> it simply successfully applied right below the same code
[21:34] <jessie> shadeslayer: What? Which patch was this? Cause Riddell handled the patches.
[21:34] <shadeslayer> hah
[21:35] <yofel> shadeslayer, jessie: what happened: http://paste.kde.org/746000
[21:35] <shadeslayer> heh
[21:35] <yofel> context was just:
[21:35] <yofel> @@ -818,6 +818,20 @@
[21:35] <yofel>          }
[21:35] <yofel>      }
[21:35] <yofel>
[21:35] <yofel> +    { // remove <audio> tags (can lead to crashes in QtWebKit)
[21:36] <jessie> yofel: Ah, yeah, I see that 12-24 and 26-38 are the same. Looks like that code got doubled.
[21:36] <shadeslayer> jessie: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/amarok/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_qtwebkit_crash.diff < needs removing
[21:36] <shadeslayer> also interesting is that it didn't fail to compile because tag is declared 2 times, different scopes?
[21:37] <yofel> why would it fail? the code has it's own scope thanks to the brackets
[21:37] <shadeslayer> yeah, that's what I just said
[21:37] <yofel> er, right
[21:38] <shadeslayer> except it was more of an "I /think/ that's why it failed"
[21:39] <shadeslayer> jessie: do you want to fix?
[21:39] <yofel> I kind of stopped reading at the colon...
[21:39] <shadeslayer> colon? there is no colon in that sentence :D
[21:40] <yofel> shows how tired I am, s/colon/comma/
[21:40] <jessie> shadeslayer: Probably not today. I'll likely be leaving for home here in about 30 minutes.
[21:41] <jessie> Sorry for breaking things on my first packaging. :-/
[21:42] <yofel> well, most of us wouldn't have noticed it either as it doesn't fail to apply
[21:43] <shadeslayer> ^^
[21:44] <shadeslayer> I'll fix it :)
[21:44] <shadeslayer> anyone want to upload libechonest and tomahawk?
[21:44] <jessie> shadeslayer: Thank you. My life has been a cluster lately, so I do appreciate you fixing my mess up.
[21:44] <shadeslayer> jessie: no problem :)
[21:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: because people refuse to speak sane languages
[21:56] <apachelogger> look at the changes to l10n-common :(
[21:56] <apachelogger> and that's bash
[22:03] <shadeslayer> all fixed and uploaded
[22:05] <valorie> thanks shadeslayer
[22:05] <shadeslayer> :)
[22:12] <jessie> shadeslayer: You rock, man.
[22:13] <shadeslayer> :)
[22:13] <jessie> So, question: Why the hell does Nepomuk file indexer always crash for me?
[22:15] <yofel> jessie: do you have a backtrace at hand?
[22:16] <jessie> yofel: No, it won't even start up though. Best way to get one? x-session errors?
[22:17] <yofel> hm, that would be the first place to look, yeah
[22:17] <jessie> http://pastie.org/7923143 There's some error data in there for sure.
[22:25] <yofel> those don't look related to nepomuk though...
[22:25] <jessie> yofel: Good point, those are bluetooth ones. Let me try to filter it a bit more
[22:27] <jessie> yofel: http://pastie.org/7923183 Looks like it never initializes?
[22:27] <yofel> o.O
[22:28] <yofel> vHanda: ^ ?
[22:28] <shadeslayer> probably not around
[22:28] <jessie> I've removed .local/nepomuk and .config/nepomuk and .kde/share/[apps|config]/nepomuk
[22:28]  * yofel is clueless how that would happen
[22:28] <shadeslayer> unless he's at the office at 12 in the night :P
[22:28] <yofel> probably not ^^
[22:28] <jessie> I've cleared everything that is nepomuk related and then it runs for ages and then it dies and refuses to start up until I purge configs again.
[22:29] <jessie> I do have a very atypical setup that vHanda fixed once before.
[22:29] <jessie> My /home/jessie/ is on my SSD but things like ~/Music and ~/Documents and ~/... etc are on my HDD.
[22:29] <jessie> I have ~/Music set up as a symlink.
[22:30] <jessie> There once was an issue with infinite recursion happening because of the links I had set up with Wine.
[22:30] <jessie> But that was fixed.
[22:30] <yofel> that's not unusual, mine looks similiar at least
[22:31] <jessie> Well, regardless, it makes me a sad panda cause email searching and such doesn't work very well without Nepomuk.
[22:32] <valorie> it's good to hear someone *wanting* nepomuk for a change
[22:32] <valorie> thank you vHanda!
[22:33] <jessie> Oh, I love nepomuk when it works. But it seems to crash on me. :-(
[22:37] <ahoneybun> jessie: same here
[22:38] <jessie> ahoneybun: It does awesome things like lets me find docs from krunner and stuff.
[22:38] <ahoneybun> yea its cool
[22:38] <ahoneybun> when it works
[22:39] <jessie> Well, I gotta bounce. My wedding reception is tomorrow, so business abounds.
[22:39] <jessie> When is vHanda usually on?
[23:47] <valorie> guys, it's been great
[23:47]  * valorie is off for about 4 hours


[07:09] <drew212> ddecator: hey are you around?
[07:09] <drew212> or is anyone from bug control around?
[08:04] <dnivra> hello. i know certain bugs in ubuntu have nicknames. where are the nicknames stored and how do I find out which bug is a nickname associated with?
[08:34] <ddecator> drew212: now i am
[13:42] <nigelb> kklimonda: ping
[13:42] <nigelb> do you know how to do that? i.e. send a mail via python..
[13:43] <nigelb> Also, there would need to be a little bit of editing of the text and support for that
[13:44] <kklimonda> nigelb: you can use smtplib
[13:46] <nigelb> kklimonda: can we have a caht over the week on this?
[13:46] <nigelb> *chat
[13:46] <kklimonda> nigelb: you can launch $EDITOR before sending, add some simple file attachment feature. While not as easy and straighforward as using reportbug it would be much easier to code it if there are problems with reportbug.
[13:46] <kklimonda> nigelb: sure
[13:47] <nigelb> kklimonda: I've asked the reportbug folks for help.  If I can't do it wth reportbug, I'll have to go this way
[13:49] <kklimonda> nigelb: what problems have you had with hooking up into reportbug? have you tried using python interface or have you been trying to work nice with the program itself by passing some arguments?
[13:50] <nigelb> kklimonda: well, it hooks up fine, but the description instead of being the body, becomes the *NAME* of the attachment, which is very strange
[13:54] <kklimonda> nigelb: hmm, I'll give it a shot later, maybe I can work something out
[13:56] <kklimonda> if only I could clone you branch :/
[13:57] <kklimonda> nigelb: any idea what may be a problem: $ bzr branch lp:~nigelbabu/ubuntu-review-overview/report-debian
[13:57] <kklimonda> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/ubuntu-review-overview/trunk/".
[13:57] <kklimonda> ?
[14:04] <nigelb> kklimonda: no clue whats going wrong.  somethign wrong with lp perhaps?
[16:51] <xteejx> Afternoon all!!
[16:51] <xteejx> Have the LPGM firefox scripts been built in the PPA for Maverick yet?
[17:07] <yofel> xteejx: they have https://edge.launchpad.net/~gm-dev-launchpad/+archive/ppa/+packages
[17:08] <xteejx> yofel: Ohh it was recently :) Couldn't see it few days ago hehe thanks yofel :)
[17:09] <yofel> np, the new version has a fixed word highlighter too finally
[17:10] <xteejx> finally! It annoyed me with it cutting links and end of comments off
[17:10] <xteejx> what's this "ButtonTags"?
[19:24] <hggdh> ugh! Valentino Rossi high-sided bad in Mugello
[19:26] <drew212> oh no
[19:26] <drew212> is he ok?
[19:27] <hggdh> yeah... bad exposed fractures on right leg
[19:27] <drew212> eww
[19:27] <drew212> they do go really fast in motoGP =P, exposed fractures are expected
[19:27] <hggdh> should be going thru surgery to reduce it now
[19:27] <hggdh> http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2010/FREE+EXCLUSIVE+VIDEO+Rossi+crash+in+Mugello+FP2
[19:28] <hggdh> getting out alive is already a gain, froma  high-side like this
[19:33] <drew212> no kidding
[19:33] <drew212> high sides are bad =X
[19:35] <drew212> hggdh: do you ride?
[19:36] <hggdh> drew212: I do
[19:36] <hggdh> and my sons
[19:36] <drew212> hggdh: my son is too young to ride =P, but I do
[19:37] <hggdh> heh. Been there ;-) on the other hand, riding in the DFW area is getting more and more dangerous
[19:37] <drew212> DFW?
[19:37] <hggdh> Dallas-Fort Worth
[19:37] <drew212> ahh, why's that?
[19:38] <hggdh> (1) too many squids on the road; (2) car drivers are getting obnoxious
[19:38] <drew212> car drivers have always been obnoxious =P
[19:41] <hggdh> yes, but here they used to be nice
[19:41] <hggdh> now it is common to have a car tail-gating you
[19:43] <drew212> keep a few paintballs in ur pocket
[19:43] <drew212> =D
[19:43] <drew212> when they tailgate, you know what to do
[19:44] <HollowPoint> Anyone here know anything about a bug in Lucid, where after setting up a LAMP server, when you try to browse to a php file, it simply downloads in your browser?
[19:49] <hggdh> HollowPoint: sounds more like you are missing/misconfigured the PHP mod. But, probably, the #ubuntu-server is a better channel for this
[20:19] <xteejx> Hey all!
[20:19] <xteejx> bug 590190 - has anyone else noticed this? I know it's very minor but still...
[20:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 590190 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Applications menu skips options when scrolling up with mouse (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590190
[20:31] <xteejx> Wow just filed 3 bugs in 10 minutes hehe :)
[20:31] <xteejx> On a hunt today ;)
[21:40] <bilkulbekar> hi guys, how do i start triaging the bugs?
[21:45] <bilkulbekar> ?
[21:49] <bilkulbekar> how do i start triaging the bugs?'
[21:53] <yofel> hi bilkulbekar, welcome, if you're new you should start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/GettingInvolved
[21:54] <bilkulbekar> yofel: already went through it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#untriaged, this is where i am..
[21:55] <bilkulbekar> yofel: but is it okay to try it on my personal machine, or on a VM?
[21:56] <yofel> for triaging you don't need a VM, for reproducing bugs it might be helpful to have a VM of the development version, testdrive is an easy way to get one
[21:57] <yofel> bilkulbekar: and if you're new, it's easier if you start by triaging bugs for software you're already familiar with, the desktop for example
[21:57] <bilkulbekar> testdrive? its ok.. i have VMWare workstation..
[21:58] <bilkulbekar> yofel: yeah totally new.. not with the testing.. but with ubuntu testing... thanks.. i wil start with the destop
[21:58] <yofel> that's certainly fine too
[22:04] <bilkulbekar> yofel: launchpad doesnt have enough searching options.. need to search for Desktop.. and new bugs
[22:18] <yofel> bilkulbekar: the general list of desktop related packages is kept by the desktop-bugs team: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
[22:19] <yofel> choose a package, go to advanced search, uncheck all status boxes other than new, and click search (sorting by 'newest first' helps too)
[22:20] <yofel> bilkulbekar: like I did for evince (document viewer) here: http://u.nu/93zdb
[22:20] <bilkulbekar> yofel: and the package here will be desktop?
[22:22] <yofel> no, the package name is the source package name of the package that contains the application
[22:22] <yofel> bilkulbekar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage explains that a big
[22:22] <yofel> *bit
[22:25] <yofel> bilkulbekar: you'll find a lot of helpful information in our knowledge base https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase - read it when you have time for it
[22:25] <bilkulbekar> yofel: thanks, i am going through it.
[22:34] <chelz> are bug reports independent of ubuntu version, as in are bugs that affect multiple versions of ubuntu marked such that they are labeled with multiple ubuntu releases (karmic, lucid, etc) or is there a separate bug per ubuntu release?
[22:35] <yofel> they are marked with multiple releases
[22:36] <chelz> thanks
[22:36] <yofel> a bug is always against the current development release, if the bug exists in a stable release and the fix qualifies for a SRU then you propose it for that release
[22:36] <chelz> oh
[22:37] <chelz> so to begin the process of an SRU someone has to check if the bug is present in the latest version?
[22:37] <yofel> seehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates (you can nominate it for the stable release it affect yourself, the devs will decide if they'll fix it there)
[22:38] <yofel> yes, for a bug to be fixed in a stable release it first needs to be fixed in the devel release
[22:39] <yofel> *see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[22:39] <bilkulbekar> yofel: what about feature testing for the next ubuntu?
[22:40] <chelz> is there a commonly-used process for say a bug that is present in a past ubuntu release, but isn't present in a newer release? say if the bug is the result of multiple packages interacting, how does one figure out where the issue is?
[22:41] <yofel> bilkulbekar: for testing ubuntu you should contact the ubuntu testing team (#ubuntu-testing) as the bugsquad is only for triaging of bug reports
[22:41] <bilkulbekar> yofel: thanks
[22:43] <nickname1238> any way I can help out on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bug/574462 or is there already enough attached info? I have a machine with an affected drive that I haven't put Lucid on yet.
[22:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 574462 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "udisks-probe-ata-smart causes HSM violations (affects: 6) (heat: 152)" [Undecided,In progress]
[22:46] <chelz> is it all that common for bugs present in older releases to just not get SRUs because no one cares enough to put in the work to fix them?
[23:19] <hggdh> chelz: not that no one cares enough, but usually because the bug does not meet the criteria for SRU
[23:19] <hggdh> or that nobody raised it in the first place...
[23:20] <chelz> well SRU requires a patch be provided right? requesting a SRU can't be done without a patch
[23:20] <chelz> i think i read
[23:39] <hggdh> chelz: yes, they usually require a patch (or, better still, a debdiff)
[23:40] <hggdh> chelz: so one would cherry-pick the devel (Maverick) patch for the issue, and retrofit it (say, on Lucid)
[23:40] <chelz> ah
[23:42] <chelz> yeah that would require some experience and quite a bit of time. i'm all for offering up running test fixes and providing info about my system but i don't really have the resources to track down the cause of bugs (and potential fixes), only really investigate the nature of them and perhaps provide workarounds that could help in resulting fixes