[00:00] <jjesse> DaSkreech: tell me that, you aren't the one writin docs for both kubuntu/kde/book + real life
[00:00] <DaSkreech> The workflow for installing an app or indeed any other action shouldn't be dangerous in one desktop versus another
[00:01] <rickspencer3> DaSkreech: yeah
[00:01] <DaSkreech> jjesse: I'm here for proof reading Throw things at me as soon as you want
[00:01] <rickspencer3> these are deep conversations, can we pick them up later?
[00:01] <jjesse> DaSkreech: thanks, i just got the final copy of version 3 so.....
[00:01] <rickspencer3> I lurk here pretty much every day
[00:02] <jjesse> rickspencer3: is there a rickspencer2 and rickspencer1 as well?
[00:02] <jjesse> :)
[00:02] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: a lot of this could be mitigated if there was a method of a) shouting that you are doing something that might hurt the other (for you) unknown desktops and b) a way to scream for help if packages or choices drastically alter a user's experience out of box
[00:03] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: Sure I'm mostly pokable if I'm on line
[00:03] <rickspencer3> jjesse: yes, rickspencer1 was my grandpa, rickspencer2 is my dad, and rickspencer4 is my son (no lie)
[00:03] <jjesse> wow cool
[00:03] <DaSkreech> Ha ha :-)
[00:03] <DaSkreech> That's neat
[00:04] <DaSkreech> Would his daugter be rickspencer 4 the new flavour ?
[00:04] <DaSkreech> Wait
[00:04] <DaSkreech> 5
[00:04] <DaSkreech> >_>
[00:04] <rickspencer3> nice to meet you all (again)
[00:04] <rickspencer3> laters
[00:04] <DaSkreech> Bye! :)
[00:04] <DaSkreech> Thanks for swining by
[00:05] <yuriy> blizzz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Projects/AluminiumCaseBadges
[00:05] <yuriy> blizzz: I was talking about making kubuntu versions of that
[00:07] <blizzz> yuriy: per se we are interested in it
[00:08] <yuriy> blizzz: I'd like some estimates for orders so I can propose them for the next batch
[00:08] <blizzz> yuriy: what would they cost, and what is the shippinbg ot germany?
[00:08] <blizzz> shipping to
[00:10] <yuriy> I can't find the pricing chart right now unfortunately, I think doctormo took it down. I think we got it down to about 50 cents a piece last time with some huge number of orders for the Ubuntu ones
[00:11] <yuriy> i'm primarily guaging interest right now
[00:15] <blizzz> yuriy: when do you need to knwo it at latest? interesting for us are the shipping costs to germany. we'd be intererested in 100 pieces.
[00:17] <yuriy> blizzz: that's all I was looking for, thanks.  I'll get back to you with more info if this gets off the ground. this is germany loco?
[00:20] <blizzz> yuriy: just ping me, this is kubuntu-de.org
[00:20] <knusperfrosch>  /wc
[00:20] <DaSkreech> ok konqueror is really annoying me
[00:20] <knusperfrosch> ups :)
[00:22] <a|wen> mail written to the nateon main dev - check
[00:24] <rgreening> Riddell: quick launcher plasma widget crashes plasma for me with qt4.5
[00:25] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: I dislike kget
[00:25] <DaSkreech> Konqueror as well but Kget is really annoying
[00:27] <Riddell> a|wen, ScottK: nateon, kita2 and knights gone
[00:27] <a|wen> Riddell: cool
[00:28] <seele> rgreening: around?
[00:28] <rgreening> seele: helo :)
[00:28] <seele> rgreening: hi!
[00:28] <rgreening> wazzup
[00:29] <seele> rgreening: do you remember volunteering to look at kpackagekit at UDS? :)
[00:29] <jjesse> rgreening: are you still working ufw-kde and if so is there an alpha or something that i could look at for documentation?
[00:29] <jjesse> rgreening: that is to start documenting?
[00:30] <rgreening> seele: yeah, I remember something about the categories, which seem to be in the app (and we couldn't find at the time)
[00:30] <seele> rgreening: right, so we need to know if it would be possible to add another page to be able to search for applications (rather than packages)
[00:30] <seele> and possibly make some tweaks to searching
[00:31] <rgreening> jjesse: no update on ufw-kde since. It's in my PPA, and the gui front end is pretty complete, just needs some back-end work and to figure out the whole sudo requiremnt for the app
[00:31] <Riddell> night all
[00:31] <rgreening> Riddell: nn
[00:31] <ScottK-desktop> apachelogger: I don't think it's in our power to prevent Rosetta from producing crap language packs.
[00:31] <jjesse> rgreening: so i can install from your ppa and start documenting it? is it intrepid or jjaunyt?
[00:31] <rgreening> seele: that should be doable.
[00:32] <rgreening> jjesse: I believe I packaged for intrepid
[00:32]  * jjesse looks at his documentation list and shudders
[00:32] <rgreening> jjesse: I'd leave the ufw-kde towards bottom of list
[00:32] <seele> rgreening: ok.  let me know after you look at it. there isn't much time left before ff
[00:32] <jjesse> rgreening: dont worry i have :)
[00:33] <rgreening> seele: I know... time flies way too quickly
[00:33] <rgreening> I'm trying to get qt4.5 to behave with kde4.2. I get crashes and so does Riddell.
[00:34] <rgreening> jjesse: if you use my PPA, I have qt4.5 in there so be careful if you dont want it.
[00:34] <jjesse> rgreening: that's what snapshots of VMs are for :0
[00:41] <rgreening> apachelogger: ping
[00:44] <lex79> rgreening: apachelogger sleeps :)
[00:44] <rgreening> stupid timezones :)
[00:45] <lex79> yes :)
[00:45] <a|wen> yeah (who was it that invented the meeting being at 5 am)
[01:12]  * a|wen heads out for coffee and class ... see you all later
[01:39] <lex79> JontheEchidna: bug 322569
[01:39] <lex79> :)
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> lex79: I just commented on it :)
[01:39] <lex79> ya
[01:40] <lex79> JontheEchidna: plasmoid-memusage?
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> lex79: got that one too
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> and spellcheck
[01:40] <lex79> uff
[01:40] <lex79> :(
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> sorry, gotta test out my MOTU powas somehow ^_^
[01:40] <lex79> JontheEchidna: others plasmoid needs work?
[01:41] <JontheEchidna> lex79: nope, scottk and vorian took care of all of the ones we have beforehand
[01:41] <lex79> ok
[01:41] <JontheEchidna> mainly I uploaded the new releases so we wouldn't have to carry around patches anymore
[02:09] <claydoh> Stickers!
[02:10] <claydoh> JontheEchidna:  congrats
[02:13] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New
[02:24] <lex79> nhandler: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=plasmoid-runcommand
[02:24] <lex79> :)
[02:24]  * nhandler goes to look
[02:25] <lex79> thanks
[02:25] <nhandler> Could you push it to a PPA? I don't have a working pbuilder right now
[02:26] <lex79> which ppa? mine?
[02:26] <nhandler> Yeah
[02:26] <lex79> ok
[02:27] <nhandler> And once it builds, could you test that it installs/runs (i'm in Ubuntu intrepid right now)
[02:28] <ScottK-desktop> Riddell: Kees +1 for Quassel is now fully reflected in the MIR text.
[02:29] <ScottK-desktop> nhandler: Install KDE 4.2 from our PPA and for a plasmoid it'll be indistinguishable from Jaunty.
[02:30] <nhandler> ScottK-desktop: I'm holding off installing KDE right now. I'm hoping to do some jaunty debugging over the weekend
[02:30] <ScottK-desktop> OK.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> kde 4.2 looks quite impressive now
[02:56] <lex79> https://edge.launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/ppa?field.name_filter=runcommand&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=jaunty
[02:57] <lex79> installs and runs are ok
[02:58] <nhandler> lex79: Ok, I'll advocate it. I don't think it matters enough that it FTBFS in lpia
[03:01] <lex79> yes, all plasmoids FTBS in lpia, I don't know why...
[03:02] <ScottK> Because kde4libs is currently FTBFS in lpia due to X borkage
[03:02] <ScottK> All you'll get right now are i386, amd64, and armel if you're lucky.
[03:02] <lex79> ScottK ok
[03:03] <DaSkreech> So oo.o is the only thing that uses KDE3 libs?
[03:03] <DaSkreech> and Kopete
[03:03] <ScottK> Not Kopete
[03:03] <ScottK> Konversation.
[03:03] <ScottK> That's why we looked for an alternative.
[03:03] <DaSkreech> Kopete's buddy list is kde3
[03:04] <DaSkreech> or Qt3 I think
[03:04] <DaSkreech> hi Hobbsee
[03:04] <ScottK> k3b and k-NM are the hard spots currently
[03:04] <Hobbsee> heya DaSkreech
[03:04] <DaSkreech> How's the weather in the wacky island?
[03:04] <DaSkreech> k-NM should be available
[03:04] <JontheEchidna> DaSkreech: it uses the kde3support libs which are in kde4 kdelibs
[03:04] <DaSkreech> ooooh ok
[03:05] <JontheEchidna> claydoh: thanks
[03:05] <ScottK> DaSkreech: Available yes, working enough, dunno
[03:05] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: thanks for the link also
[03:05] <nhandler> np JontheEchidna. That wiki page really should be better linked to. It is really useful
[03:06] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I was wondering where something like that was
[03:06] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Also remember to change your dput.cf file so that it doesn't upload to the Ubuntu repos by default
[03:06] <ScottK> Which wiki page?
[03:06] <nhandler> ScottK-desktop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New
[03:06] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:06] <JontheEchidna> I believe my default only allows a series of "UNRELEASED?!"
[03:07] <JontheEchidna> allowed_distributions	= (?!UNRELEASED)
[03:07] <ScottK> I default upload to 'bob'.
[03:07] <ScottK> He never takes the package.
[03:08] <JontheEchidna> oh, so that's how you guys sponsor my work
[03:09]  * JontheEchidna feels enlightened
[03:09] <ScottK> ;-)
[03:09] <ScottK> That page didn't exist when I became a MOTU.
[03:10]  * ScottK recalls doing his first post-MOTUhood merge and asking, "what do I do with it now."
[03:10] <ScottK> The answer was, of course, "Upload it."
[03:11] <nhandler> If I remember, I might add some other common tasks that new MOTUs need to do to that wiki page
[03:12] <ScottK> When you're new is the time to do it.
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: btw, did you see that bug I subscribed you to?
[03:13] <nhandler> ScottK: I'm still relatively new. I've only been a MOTU for a little over a month
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Nightrose: any idea who wrote the kde 4 release announcements?
[03:18] <nhandler> Hobbsee: I think Riddell did
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Nightrose: you might encourage whoever wrote them to use the spellcheck.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> nhandler: for http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.2/desktop.php ?
[03:19] <nhandler> Hobbsee: I don't know about that. I thought you meant Kubuntu 4.2 release announcement
[03:19] <Hobbsee> nhandler: no :)
[03:27] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I did.
[03:27] <ScottK> I did read the whole history.
[03:27] <DaSkreech> Jos and Sebas I think
[03:28] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: k, cool. I don't think it ever worked too well tbh
[03:28] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: From just the bugmail my initial reaction was "broken thing no one cares about may or may not be slightly more broken."
[03:28]  * JontheEchidna seems to remember notes in the packaging suggesting as much
[03:29] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: yeah, I didn't even know that I couldn't care about it :P
[03:31] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: What's wrong with it?
[03:31] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: spelling of 'botom' on that link, for one.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> i didn't carefully proof read it, but did notice that typo.
[03:33] <nhandler> I just added a section to that wiki page about modifying your dput.cf file. I realize it is a little wordy, so if somebody wants to clean it up a little, it would be greatly appreciated
[03:33] <Bsims> I'd like to know if there is a script to package kde 3.5 in a semi automatic way and have it dump a Pile'O'Debs out
[03:34] <Bsims> I'd be willing to do some work and host a repo for it if it's not insanely complex I've used dpkg for single binaries
[03:34] <lex79> nhandler or anyone: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=plasmoid-weatherforecast
[03:35] <lex79> https://edge.launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/ppa?field.name_filter=weather&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=jaunty
[03:35] <nhandler> lex79: I'll take a look
[03:36] <lex79> when you have time, no problem
[03:36] <nhandler> Did it install/run?
[03:36] <Bsims> Can anyone point me to a tutorial to build multi binary debs
[03:37] <lex79> nhandler: yes, it is in my desktop :)
[03:41] <JontheEchidna> lex79, nhandler: I can take a second look too
[03:42] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Give me a second to add my comment
[03:42] <JontheEchidna> sure thing
[03:43] <nhandler> Ok, go ahead JontheEchidna
[03:46] <lex79> nhandler: grammar mistakes :)
[03:49] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Are you marked as a MOTU on REVU?
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> nhandler: yus, jpds did so this morning
[03:49] <nhandler> :)
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> and I can find no further issues than the ones you mentioned :)
[03:50] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Do you want to make the changes and upload?
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> It would be good experience mehtinks
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> methinks, even
[03:50] <nhandler> Once you upload, you will need to send an email to ubuntu-motu
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> so make the changes, upload, advocate, archive?
[03:51] <nhandler> First, add a comment advocating and saying you will upload
[03:51] <nhandler> Make the changes to the package, upload to the repositories, and archive the upload on REVU
[03:51] <nhandler> Then, send a copy of the email you get saying the package was accepted to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:52] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Also, look at the last section on the new motu wiki page
[03:52]  * JontheEchidna has said wiki page bookmarked
[03:53] <nhandler> I remember when I first became a MOTU...I had printed out that wiki page and was reading it in the hallway before school
[03:53] <JontheEchidna> lol
[03:57] <JontheEchidna> hmm, now to elaborate on that long desc
[03:57] <JontheEchidna> wait, this might depend on kdeplasma-addons
[03:57] <JontheEchidna> for the weather dataengine
[03:58] <nhandler> lex79: Did it work without kdeplasma-addons?
[03:58] <JontheEchidna> the homepage says as much too
[03:59] <JontheEchidna> I think this will warrant another upload to revu
[03:59] <lex79> I don't try without kdeplasma-addons
[03:59] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: There really is no need to upload again to REVU. What will that accomplish?
[03:59] <lex79> plasmoid-weather depends on kdeplasma-addons?
[04:00] <JontheEchidna> hmm, I guess you're right. The wiki said that more than minor changes should be noted in the changelog but since this is an initial release...
[04:00] <JontheEchidna> lex79: I'll take care of it
[04:00] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: The only changes I normally include in the changelog for a new package are patches that I add, and a note if it had to be repacked
[04:02] <JontheEchidna> lex79: how is this for a long description:
[04:02] <JontheEchidna> This plasmoid shows the current temperature, as well as the weather forecast
[04:02] <JontheEchidna>  for the next two days
[04:02] <JontheEchidna> hmm, maybe that comma isn't necessary
[04:04] <nhandler> How about "This plasmoid shows the temperature and weather forecast for the next two days
[04:05] <JontheEchidna> This plasmoid shows the current temperature and weather conditions as well as
[04:05] <JontheEchidna>  the weather forecast for the next two days
[04:05] <JontheEchidna> eh, yours is better
[04:07] <jcastro> JontheEchidna: congrats!
[04:07] <jcastro> I thought you were a motu already
[04:08] <JontheEchidna> heh :)
[04:08] <jjesse> i think everyone thought that JontheEchidna was a motu already as well
[04:13]  * JontheEchidna tests the plasmoid without kdeplasma-addons
[04:13] <vorian> holy cow
[04:13] <vorian> Contrats JontheEchidna :)
[04:15] <JontheEchidna> thx
[04:15] <vorian> upload anything fun yet?
[04:15] <JontheEchidna> only 4 new upstream releases of plasmoids that incorporate your patches
[04:16] <nhandler> He is also looking at some REVU packages
[04:17] <JontheEchidna> ok, so the weather dataengine is in kdebase-workspace-bin now
[04:17] <JontheEchidna> which also contains plasma, so we should be cool with that
[04:17] <JontheEchidna> no changes needed in regards to that I think
[04:17] <nhandler> vorian: In the mood for some editing?
[04:17] <vorian> maybe
[04:18] <vorian> :)
[04:18] <nhandler> vorian: Lasat section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New
[04:18] <nhandler> It is a little wordy
[04:18] <vorian> yeah, easy
[04:19] <vorian> "To make sure you don't really F things up, put 'donkey-kong' as your default dput location"
[04:19] <JontheEchidna> debuild -S -sa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:19] <nhandler> vorian: I would also add the [donkey-kong] stanza, but I guess it really doesn't matter
[04:19] <JontheEchidna> isn't working :(
[04:20] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: The <>'s aren't needed
[04:20] <vorian> JontheEchidna: i have my key set in devscripts
[04:20] <JontheEchidna> doh
[04:20]  * JontheEchidna facepalms
[04:21]  * JontheEchidna uploads
[04:21] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Remember to add a comment advocating the upload on REVU. Upload, archive, and forward the email
[04:22]  * JontheEchidna notices how the svgs are many times bigger than the plasmoid itself
[04:22] <vorian> i think items 1 and 6 could also be combined
[04:23] <JontheEchidna> lex79: uploaded
[04:23] <vorian> e-mail Riddell for stickers?
[04:23] <JontheEchidna> lex79: thanks for your awesome plasmoid packaging work
[04:23] <jjesse> vorian yes for kubuntu stickers
[04:24] <vorian> awesome
[04:24] <vorian> address and whatnot?
[04:24] <nhandler> vorian: Just send him your mailing address and a subject of "STICKERS"
[04:24] <jjesse><EMAIL_ADDRESS>i think
[04:24] <jjesse> shrug
[04:24] <vorian> roger
[04:25] <vorian> jjesse: close, but not quite
[04:25] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: -k wants a keyid
[04:25] <lex79> JontheEchidna: thanks too
[04:25] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: my email worked too
[04:25] <nhandler> ScottK: It also accepts an email address associated with the key
[04:25] <ScottK> I did not know that.
[04:25] <ScottK> Thanks.
[04:26] <JontheEchidna> So I forward the acceptance email to the ubuntu-motu list?
[04:26] <nhandler> Yes
[04:26] <nhandler> ScottK: It is mentioned on that New MOTU wiki page I linked to earlier ;)
[04:27] <ScottK> Which didn't exist two years ago ...
[04:27] <JontheEchidna> forwarded
[04:27] <a|wen> ScottK: did you find out anything about teacooker/jackd?
[04:27] <vorian> heh, i've only used the trix in devscripts
[04:27] <jjesse> nhandleryou have to remember that ScottK is the old man of the group
[04:28] <nhandler> jjesse: I know that
[04:28] <ScottK> a|wen: Yes.  It seemed just the same for me 4.1.3/4.1.4.
[04:28] <vorian> nhandler is the youngen of the group
[04:28] <ScottK> I just had to wait a bit for it to let go of the device
[04:28] <JontheEchidna> lex79: I'll have to revu the runcommand plasmoid tomorrow (in my time zone)
[04:28] <a|wen> ScottK: okay, so no regression eg. no blocker
[04:28]  * JontheEchidna goes to bed
[04:29] <ScottK> a|wen: I'm inclined to say so.
[04:29] <vorian> nn Mr MOTU
[04:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: What was your bug.
[04:29] <JontheEchidna> uh
[04:29] <ScottK> a|wen: JontheEchidna found another possible rejection...
[04:29] <ScottK> I can look it up
[04:29] <JontheEchidna> bug 322547
[04:29] <ScottK> rejection/regression
[04:30] <JontheEchidna> I sorta wish we didn't package it at all right about now
[04:30] <JontheEchidna> I don't think it's ever worked well
[04:30] <lex79> JontheEchidna: so, I mark fixed release this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/296904 ?
[04:31] <JontheEchidna> lex79: yes
[04:31] <lex79> ok
[04:31] <nhandler> Do needs-packaging bugs get closes when the package is uploaded? I can't remember
[04:31] <JontheEchidna> nope^
[04:31] <nhandler> s/closes/closed/
[04:31] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Ok, I didn't think so. I just couldn't remember for sure
[04:32] <JontheEchidna> probably because they aren't associated with a source package
[04:32] <JontheEchidna> heh, I was about to say kpackage was universe material
[04:32] <JontheEchidna> it is in universe :P
[04:32] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: True, but from a technical point of view, there really is no reason that they couldn't be closed
[04:32] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[04:33] <a|wen> ScottK: hmm, doesn't sound good
[04:33] <ScottK> a|wen: Agreed.
[04:33] <ScottK> a|wen: My laptop install died.  It's last official act was to upload your kdepim fix.
[04:34] <ScottK> Could you have a crack at this one?
[04:34]  * ScottK needs to go find his CD for said laptop and reinstall...
[04:34] <nhandler> Night everyone
[04:34] <ScottK> Good night
[04:34] <lex79> nhandler: night
[04:34] <JontheEchidna> night here too
[04:35] <a|wen> ScottK: i'll take a look later today
[04:35] <ScottK> Great.  Thanks.
[04:39] <a|wen> uh oh, no commits to kdeadmin (except documentation)
[04:41] <ScottK> Clearly it's his imagination then.
[04:42] <a|wen> ScottK: kde bug 168577 maybe?
[04:43] <a|wen> present in 4.1.0 through 4.1.4
[04:43] <ScottK> Sounds like not a regression to me.
[04:43] <ScottK> Found the CD, BTW.
[04:44]  * a|wen connects the LP bug to the upstream bug
[04:44] <a|wen> ScottK: does kpackage work in kde4.2 ?
[04:44] <ScottK> No idea.
[04:45]  * ScottK look for someone still awake that has 4.2...
[04:45]  * a|wen has an 8 hour D/L (with -dbg packages) before he has 4.2
[05:23] <a|wen> when any motu comes around, debdiff for cmus is ready in bug 320915
[05:31] <astromme> Hmm, this probably isn't good: kmail: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/kde4/kabc_akonadi.so: undefined symbol: _ZN4KABC12ContactGroup8mimeTypeEv
[05:31] <astromme> Any ideas? Jaunty with 4.2 release
[05:34] <claydoh> astromme: not sure, but I don't think kdepim for jaunty has been rebuilt yet
[05:34] <claydoh> there was a problem with libboost or some such
[05:34] <astromme> claydoh: Would that point towards why the error is there?
[05:35] <astromme> Out of curiosity, why didn't it prevent me from upgrading my other packages then? Wouldn't kdepim depend on the specific RC?
[05:36] <claydoh> kdepim is still 4.196 or whatever
[05:36] <claydoh> though......
[05:36] <claydoh> somehow kmail is working now for me
[05:36] <astromme> claydoh: I get the crash when I try and work with any of my dimap folders
[05:36] <astromme> Inbox and such
[05:36] <claydoh> kopete was the same error earlier too, but is fine now
[05:37] <jjesse> kmail crashes for me only on my inbox
[05:37] <claydoh> I was getting it simply clickin on any email
[05:37] <astromme> I get it upon clicking a folder.
[05:37] <claydoh> and kopete wouldn't start at all
[05:37] <astromme> it'll sync the folders all fine and such, and I see my (22) for unread messages
[05:38] <astromme> but when I try to view them, bam. =/
[05:38] <astromme> Oh well, I guess I'll wait. Not fun for sure.
[05:38] <claydoh> nope tbird and sylpheed don't cut it for me
[05:38] <astromme> I wonder if the updated packages (whenever they come) will include an akonadi that doesn't depend on mysql-server-5.0 but instead can use 5.1 Then I can have Amarok2 and Kontact all happy again.
[05:40]  * claydoh shovels snow, eats, shovels more snow and sleet
[05:41]  * claydoh goes to bed so he can shovel more of it early in the morning
[05:59] <ScottK> a|wen: Did the kdepim patch you found make 4.2.0, or was it post 4.2.0?
[06:00] <ScottK> astromme: You probably don't want 5.1 for akonadi.
[06:01] <ScottK> We are planning on staying with 5.0 for akonadi and 5.1 for amarok, but having them be co-installable.  They should be now.
[08:10] <a|wen> ScottK: it made it to 4.2.0
[08:12] <a|wen> ScottK: got in somewhere between rc1 and final
[09:18] <knusperfrosch> erm how can i fix not translated strings in kde4.2(8.10)?
[10:08]  * a|wen- hates when network breaks during upgrades ... is 80% on kde4.2 (and don't dare to do much while i'm in this state :/ )
[10:11] <jussi01> a|wen: erm, if its just downloading still it shouldnt matter, no?
[10:13] <knusperfrosch> using the dictionary plasmoid in 4.2 on 8.10 causes: "Could not find requeted component: dict"
[10:14] <knusperfrosch> but i can query that enginge with plasmaengingeexplorer
[10:37] <a|wen-> jussi01: when my connection goes it returns 302 ... aptitude jumps over and start installing what it can of the d/l'ed packages
[11:33]  * stdin decides to step away from plasma
[11:34] <Tm_T> nooooooo
[11:35] <stdin> I managed to get the pastebin applet to post to paste.ubuntu.com, but it seems to only want to work in plasmoidviewer
[11:35] <stdin> it's beginning to make by eyes itch
[11:37] <Tm_T> stdin: #plasma (;)
[11:39] <stdin> Tm_T: when I gather my strength, yes
[11:39] <Tm_T> <3
[11:40] <stdin> see, it does work sometimes http://paste.ubuntu.com/111194/
[13:01] <smarter> Riddell: found any issue running 4.5?
[13:04] <smarter> Tonio_: I just saw that you updated kepas package, nice! But could you please update it in the bzr branch too? :P
[13:08] <Riddell> smarter: my computer kept freezing and first login was broken
[13:08] <Riddell> seems better today.. so far
[13:08] <smarter> rgreening updated the package?
[13:12] <smarter> Riddell: and do you notice any change in performances?
[13:20] <JontheEchidna> Hmm, so my email to ubuntu-motu failed last night :/
[13:22] <ScottK> a|wen: Did you make it?
[13:22] <ScottK> Riddell: pitti accepted a|wen's kdepim fix earlier today.  That's the only known regression we've got in 4.1.4.
[13:30] <Riddell> ScottK: let me look
[13:31] <ScottK> I just installed it....
[13:33] <Riddell> he didn't let through my kdeutils upload
[13:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: is akonadi known to be broken right now ?
[13:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: some plugins have disapeared (no way to add ldap datas for example...)
[13:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: and kmail seems crash everytime I wanna plug the akonadi resource...
[13:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: fyi the ldap plugin for akonadi was still there a couple of weeks ago...
[13:36] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's caught up in the boost transition
[13:36] <Riddell> don't think that should cause a problem
[13:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: "boost" transition ? you mean ?
[13:37] <Riddell> libboost1.34 -> libboost1.35
[13:38] <Tonio_> ah...
[13:38] <Tonio_> well I'll wait a bit then :)
[13:39] <rgreening> Tonio_: wep still no go on latest nm
[13:39] <Tonio_> another complete crash...... beta2 was a lot more stable for me...
[13:39] <Tonio_> that happens quite often with kde
[13:39] <Tonio_> the betas are stable, and then stability goes worse when the release comes out....
[13:40] <nixternal> good morning!
[13:40] <Tonio_> rgreening: hum.... worked out for me....
[13:40] <Tonio_> rgreening: did you clean up all the connections and kwallet entries ?
[13:40] <Tonio_> rgreening: there was a storage problem
[13:40] <rgreening> Riddell: would a rebuild of kde against qt4.5 potentially make things work better for testing qt.4.5
[13:41] <nixternal> last time I built kde 4.2 against qt4 4.5 it was pretty bad
[13:41] <nixternal> has that all been fixed?
[13:41] <rgreening> Tonio_: I never touched kwallet...
[13:41] <Lure> Tonio_: no crashes here... plasma crash or what? It may be some applet that is not rebuilt
[13:42] <rgreening> nixternal: I have qt4.5 in my ppa, and installed it against kde4.2 built against qt.4.4.3. It's not stable (kstartupnotify4 crashes and fails first login everytime)
[13:42] <nixternal> ok, so that is still a problem
[13:42] <Riddell> rgreening: unlikely, but 4.5 final should be out soon
[13:42] <Tonio_> Lure: typed "exit" in a konsole
[13:42] <Tonio_> Lure: closed kontact...
[13:43] <nixternal> ya, I saw that as well about a month ago
[13:43] <Lure> Tonio_: and the app crashes or something else (kwin/plasma)?
[13:43] <Tonio_> all kdm, I'm back to kdm
[13:43] <Lure> Tonio_: wau, that sounds bad... any stuff in .xsession-errors?
[13:43] <Tonio_> happens to me at least once a day right now
[13:44] <rgreening> Riddell: I was thinking rebuilding kde against qt4.5 may expose missing or changed bits (i.e. failed builds)
[13:44] <Tonio_> Lure: nothing about X no ;) I'm still investigating
[13:44] <Lure> Tonio_: .xsession-errors is not just about X
[13:44] <Lure> Tonio_: it catches output of kinit, kded
[13:45]  * Lure hopes that this crashes do not start on his jaunty...
[13:46] <Tonio_> rgreening: you should clean you kwallet from networkmanager entries
[13:47] <rgreening> Tonio_: ok, I'll try that later tonight
[13:47] <rgreening> Tonio_: when I have acces to wirless again
[13:48] <Tonio_> oki ;)
[13:48] <Tonio_> rgreening: just clean everything
[13:48] <Tonio_> reboot and test
[13:48] <Tonio_> Lure: I know, but I mean there was nothing special in there
[13:54] <rgreening> Tonio_: Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure I tried from a guest account, and could not connect either
[13:56] <Tonio_> rgreening: oki... sounds bad :)
[13:57] <Tonio_> apachelogger: since I know you also work on koffice package, I uploaded a fixed one yesterday to avoid file conflict with kde-icons-oxygen...
[13:57] <Tonio_> apachelogger: that's my only change, and it now ftbfs, here is the issue
[13:58] <Tonio_> http://pastebin.com/m483fba2d
[13:58] <Tonio_> apachelogger: looks like it just doesn't like 4.2...
[14:06] <stdin> hmm, does adept do dist upgrades? (--dist-upgrade)
[14:06] <stdin> or do we use something else?
[14:06] <devfil> Riddell: what version of qt will be included in jaunty?
[14:07] <Riddell> dunno
[14:08] <devfil> Riddell: are chance to have qt 4.4.5 in jaunty?
[14:08] <rgreening> 4.5.0 devfil
[14:08] <rgreening> 4.4.5 doesnt exist :)
[14:08] <devfil> yes, 4.5.0
[14:09] <rgreening> devfil: want ot help test it?
[14:09] <Riddell> sure, if it works without notable problems
[14:09] <freeflying> Riddell: how about the licese issue?
[14:10] <rgreening> devfil: I have a qt4.5 build in my PPA. KDE4.2 still seems ot have issue with it. Need help tracking down the culprit...
[14:10] <devfil> Riddell: in the ubuntu italian mailing list some users are asking for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/237672 . It's not a good idea to work on that package if qt 4.5 will be included
[14:11] <Riddell> freeflying: what licence issue?
[14:11] <freeflying> I've tried qt-4.5 + kde 4.3 svn. it works without noteable issues
[14:11] <Riddell> devfil: best wait for that until we decide if 4.5 is going in
[14:12] <devfil> Riddell: ok
[14:12] <freeflying> Riddell: nothing, I forgot something :)
[14:13] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: why did you need to forward that plasmoid-runcommand e-mail to ubuntu-motu?
[14:13] <ScottK> Riddell: We do that for all New packages.
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I got it working btw, all I needed was a resend
[14:14] <Riddell> ScottK: why's that?
[14:14] <ScottK> To let everyone know when new packages enter the archive.
[14:14] <Riddell> surely you just comment on revu
[14:15] <ScottK> Not everyone looks at REVU.
[14:19] <a|wen> ScottK: as far as i can tell 4.1.4 does look to run pretty good :) ... haven't had any problems
[14:20] <ScottK> a|wen: Seems so here too.
[14:20] <ScottK> Would you please comment in the bugs.
[14:21] <a|wen> ScottK: i'll do that
[14:21] <vorian>
[14:22] <vorian> pfft
[14:22] <ScottK> a|wen: Thanks.
[14:22]  * ScottK gets a towel and wipes off vorian's spittle.
[14:22] <vorian> hehe
[14:27] <Lure> ScottK: can you offer some core-dev powers for sposored upload of kdeedu?
[14:27]  * Lure will learn all core-dev names today ;-)
[14:28] <ScottK> Lure: Perhaps in an hour or two.
[14:28] <ScottK> If Riddell doesn't get to it first.
[14:28] <Lure> ScottK: it is in bug 322278 (otherwise in BZR)
[14:29] <ScottK> Lure: Yes, I saw them discussing it in #debian-qt-kde.
[14:39] <Riddell> well, that seems to work http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/s-c-p-k.png
[14:39] <Riddell> Arby, JontheEchidna: what doesn't work about s-c-p-k in system settings?
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> Arby: trying to open the add new printer dialog crashes python, scpk and systemsettings
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> er
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ^
[14:40] <Riddell> ah, threads
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> same deal with jockey-kcm, it dies whenever it tries to access info over dbus
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> the crash has the same backtrace too
[14:53] <devfil> Riddell:   kdelibs5-dev: Depends: automoc (>= 1.0~svn834416) but it is not going to be installed
[14:53] <devfil>                 Depends: libqt4-dev (>= 4.4.3) but it is not going to be installed
[14:53] <devfil>                 Depends: libplasma-dev (= 4:4.1.96-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
[14:53] <devfil>                 Depends: libqt4-opengl-dev but it is not going to be installed
[14:53] <devfil>   kdemultimedia-dev: Depends: kdebase-workspace-dev (>= 4:4.0.73) but it is not going to be installed
[14:53] <devfil> on ia64
[14:53] <Riddell> ia64??
[14:53] <devfil> (and other)
[14:53] <devfil> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21773344/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-ia64.audex_0.62b-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[14:54] <devfil> also on sparc, powerpc, lpia
[14:55] <a|wen> ScottK: commented on the SRU's
[14:56] <a|wen> ScottK: and the problem with kpackage is no more in kde4.2 - marked fix released
[14:57] <ScottK> Great.
[14:58] <ScottK> devfil: Look at the kernel version requirements for libdrm-dev and then the kernel for ia64.
[14:59] <ScottK> Someone either needs to figure out how to make libdrm-dev live with the older kernels on those archs or update the kernels.
[15:08] <Riddell> _Sime: any thoughts on using threads within pykde kcontrol modules?  http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/pykcm.py
[15:18] <Riddell> Lure: I've uploaded kdeedu
[15:18] <Lure> Riddell: thanks!
[15:18] <Riddell> Lure: hmm, but it's missing the Replaces:
[15:19] <Lure> Riddell: because of overwrites? it worked here...
[15:19] <Lure> but I did upgrade all *marble* packages at once with dpkg -i...
[15:20] <Riddell> yeah, it needs the replaces for most upgrades
[15:20] <Riddell> I'll add that
[15:23] <Tonio_> devfil: thanks for the fix on audex. "i" left out is a very "vim" issue :)
[15:23] <devfil> Tonio_: say thanks to gaspa
[15:23] <Tonio_> devfil: :)
[15:24] <Tonio_> devfil: did you try to retry the build ?
[15:25] <devfil> Tonio_: nope
[15:26] <Tonio_> devfil: unfortunatelly I can't outside of the amd64 and i386 context...
[15:26] <Tonio_> locally I mean, on a diagnostic purpose
[15:28] <Riddell> _Sime: why is kcmodule_example/ in tools? shouldn't it be in examples?
[15:29] <ScottK> Tonio_: Until the ports kernels are updated, there's really no point in worrying about them.
[15:35] <Tonio_> ScottK ok
[15:36] <ScottK> Tonio_: See the discussion in #ubuntu-devel for details.
[15:37] <a|wen> if anybody has some spare time, I have 3 debdiff's that needs a review on bug 320915 - zapping, xsidplay, cmus
[15:37] <ScottK> Riddell: My xorg-server rebuild where I dropped the Redhat hack has gotten thumbs up from people using both Intel and Nvidia.  I've tried it with 4.1.3 and 4.1.4 (both Intel).  I'd like to push it to the regular Kubuntu PPA, so people upgrading to 4.2 get it too.  Thoughts?
[15:38] <ScottK> a|wen: You might also try #ubuntu-motu (explain the goal, etc) so that when you apply for MOTU more of them know who you are.
[15:38]  * ScottK did see you active there earlier and applauds that.
[15:39] <a|wen> ScottK: do you want to have that xorg-server tested agains an ati card?
[15:39] <ScottK> a|wen: Yes.  Please (in my ppa ~kitterman)
[15:40] <Riddell> ScottK: so long as you monitor report and pull it if there's any problems
[15:41] <jussi01> anyone can tell me where the latest version of kpackagekit can be found for testing with?
[15:42] <a|wen> ScottK: what should i look out for?
[15:43] <jussi01> Lure: did you break digikam?
[15:43] <jussi01> it just crashed on start for me...
[15:43] <Lure> jussi01: install marble
[15:44] <Lure> jussi01: it is packaging issue
[15:44] <jussi01> Lure: again?
[15:44] <Lure> jussi01: yes, different one
[15:44]  * jussi01 thought we debugged and fixed this last time..
[15:44] <Lure> jussi01: plugins needs to be shipped with libmarble4 instead of marble
[15:44] <jussi01> Lure: sudo apt-get install marble ?
[15:45] <Lure> jussi01: yes
[15:46] <ScottK> a|wen: It should be more responsive and not have the momentary video garbage when opening new windows.  Any performance regressions would be of interest.
[15:46] <jussi01> Lure: ok, fixed. thanks
[15:46] <Lure> jussi01: great
[15:46] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  I'll wait for a|wen's test on ati.
[16:01] <Riddell> Arby: tsk, you use tabs!
[16:08] <Tm_T> Riddell: what's wrong with tabs?
[16:10] <Riddell> they are inferior to spaces
[16:10] <Riddell> they never match up
[16:11] <Riddell> Qt designer has changed back to a single window UI in 4.5
[16:16] <stdin> I noticed that too
[16:16] <rgreening> Riddell: I think I found a packaging problem with my 4.5 build of qt.
[16:16] <rgreening> Riddell: I have to check, but I think I mayhave some incorrect replaces/conflicts in there.
[16:17] <rgreening> Riddell: I'll review again and update. It may resolve some of our issues.
[16:17] <Riddell> Arby: do you know why the Apply button doesn't appear on the server settings page?
[16:20] <Tm_T> Riddell: that's why everyone should use tabs (;)
[16:35] <a|wen> anybody want to party like it was 1999! :P ... http://mschlander.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/is-kde-42-too-shiny/
[16:36] <Tm_T> too shiny?
[16:36] <Tm_T> a|wen: is this post rant?
[16:36] <a|wen> Tm_T: i'm pretty sure it is made out of pure humoristic sense :)
[16:37] <jussi01> a|wen: hahahah
[16:38] <a|wen> you wouldn't think it was possible :)
[16:38] <Tm_T> a|wen: ah, anyway, complaining about shinyness of KDE is like whining about your own choices, it's all configurable anyway
[16:39] <a|wen> it is
[16:39] <a|wen> Tm_T: he is an opensuse devel so it is not a personal rant (i hope :P )
[16:40] <Tm_T> a|wen: aye, I asked before I looked it
[16:40] <rgreening> kdelibs5-dbg: Depends: kdelibs5 (= 4:4.2.0-0ubuntu1) but 4:4.2.0c-0ubuntu1~ppa1 is to be installed
[16:40]  * Tm_T is in middle of broken xine packages
[16:40] <rgreening> looks like a small issue in the package
[16:41]  * a|wen is looking for old (+15 years) music files
[16:41] <Tm_T> a|wen: what format you like them to be?
[16:41] <a|wen> Tm_T: any one of the 81 formats xmp understands
[16:42] <Tm_T> a|wen: and file itself must be that old or the contents of file?
[16:42] <a|wen> Tm_T: just the file format is important ... for testing xmp
[16:43] <Tm_T> aye, mp2 then...
[16:43] <Tm_T> bah, on the other pc
[16:43] <smarter> [14:04:15] <smarter> Tonio_: I just saw that you updated kepas package, nice! But could you please update it in the bzr branch too? :P
[16:43] <a|wen> Tm_T: mp2 is too new (not supported)
[16:43] <Arby> Riddell: no I don't know why the apply button doesn't appear off the top of my head
[16:43] <Tm_T> a|wen: hmm, interesting
[16:43] <Arby> and tabs Vs spaces. meh
[16:44] <Arby> I used whatever kate was set up to at the time :)
[16:44] <a|wen> Tm_T: NP2 is the closest i think ;)
[16:44] <a|wen> oh... got a page i think (after looong time of google searching)
[16:48] <smarter> also, can anyone tell me what was discussed at yesterday's meeting?
[16:48] <a|wen> yay, xmp plays the file :)
[16:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: it's certainly in our power to not use rosetta language packs until they are fixed
[16:48] <ScottK> True.
[16:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: it's not like our apps get translated anyway :S
[16:49] <ScottK> ;-)
[16:49] <apachelogger> seriously
[16:49] <apachelogger> I have the impression rosetta is just there to break KDE's translations
[16:49] <ScottK> I notice that with this latest release, rosetta has gained an ability to export changes.
[16:49] <apachelogger> I don't see any single piece of translated kubuntu stuff
[16:49] <a|wen> apachelogger: do we still have translational problems?
[16:49] <apachelogger> a|wen: gotta get updated packages first
[16:50] <apachelogger> if I am not mistaken the current ones are from october
[16:50] <lex79> apachelogger: will be there qt 4.4.5 in final release?
[16:50] <apachelogger> lex79: if they release it soonish
[16:50] <apachelogger> which doesn't look likely
[16:50] <apachelogger> oh
[16:50] <apachelogger> hold on!
[16:50]  * apachelogger is on vacation :P
[16:50] <apachelogger> => -offtopic
[16:50] <Riddell> apachelogger: it has been release, just not publicly
[16:51] <lex79> apachelogger: you are in vacation ever :P
[16:51] <a|wen> it sounds like we should definitely keep an eye on the translations
[16:51] <rgreening> lex79: if oyu want ot help debug problems and test, there is a qt4.5.0 packge in my PPA
[16:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, neato
[16:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: I saw mention of a new language pack export for Intrepid this week or next.
[16:52]  * apachelogger is on jaunty!
[16:52] <apachelogger> and still got oct packages
[16:52] <lex79> rgreening: thanks
[16:53] <rgreening> lex79: http://launchpad.net/~roderick-greening
[16:53] <Nightrose> apachelogger: about to reinstall the eeepc - does your judgement from a few days ago still hold?
[16:54] <apachelogger> aye
[16:54] <apachelogger> Nightrose: improved thogh
[16:54] <apachelogger> at least on intel
[16:54] <Nightrose> improved to usable or not? ;-)
[16:55] <a|wen> xmp without arts-support build and tested ... and debdiff uploaded
[16:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I was thinking about splitting the meeting into council meetings and dev meetings ... latter being for general development discussion (like that arts removal stuff) and maybe done on regular basis (2 week cycle?) ... former for large impact stuff like should we replace amarok with banshee on the CD
[16:56] <smarter> apachelogger: what came up at last meeting?
[16:56]  * smarter passed out before it started :p
[16:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: could greatly decrease overall meeting time and doesn't force people who are barely interested with the awfulness of development to listen to us playing buzzword bingo ;-)
[16:57] <Nightrose> oh screw it i am going to install jaunty - i can always install intrepid later if it doesn't work out
[16:57] <apachelogger> Nightrose: that's the spirit
[16:57] <apachelogger> Nightrose: but remember
[16:57] <Nightrose> ;-)
[16:57] <apachelogger> install in german
[16:57] <Nightrose> :( nononono
[16:57] <Nightrose> it's horrible
[16:57] <apachelogger> tell me about it
[16:57] <Nightrose> i want an english system
[16:57] <rgreening> Nightrose: nein
[16:57] <Nightrose> :/
[16:57] <rgreening> niet
[16:57]  * apachelogger is using it for almost a month now
[16:58] <rgreening> :)
[16:58]  * Nightrose feels your pain
[16:58]  * smarter feels a bit ignored...
[16:58] <rgreening> I have a mind to install in portuguese
[16:58] <ScottK> Riddell: I saw that Rosetta has grown the ability to export translation changes to send back upstream, but they will be BSD license.  In the unlikely event that this produces something useful for KDE, will the license be a problem?
[16:58]  * Nightrose hugs smarter
[16:59] <rgreening> o/ smarter :P
[16:59]  * ScottK pat, pats smarter on the head.
[16:59] <smarter> :P
[16:59] <smarter> now that I got your attention, could someone resume me what happend at latest meeting?
[17:00]  * smarter hugs back Nightrose :)
[17:00] <Nightrose> does someone have a link to jaunty images handy?
[17:00]  * Nightrose searches
[17:00] <Riddell> ScottK: no that's fine, it's compatible with KDE's licence
[17:00] <Xand3r> hey ho,i sistalled kde4.2 and wihle it istalled it dstroyed the old and the new kde, now i am back with kde4.1.4, but now not everything works
[17:01] <Xand3r> amarok cant play musik
[17:01] <Xand3r> dragonplayer dont plays videos
[17:01] <smarter> Xand3r: check phonon config (systemsettings->sound/multimedia/phonon/something like that
[17:01] <Xand3r> global shurtcuts dont work
[17:01] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  I thought everything in KDE has to have a GPL license.  Does it just get relicensed then?
[17:02] <Riddell> Nightrose: cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu
[17:02] <rgreening> smarter: I was late and missed .. so apachelogger can prob update (or tell you to review the irclogs for ubuntu-meeting)
[17:02] <Nightrose> thx Riddell
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> smarter: stickers, kpackagekit, and elves
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> well, no elves
[17:02]  * JontheEchidna was in and out of the meeting
[17:02] <Riddell> ScottK: no BSD is fine in KDE, see 3 and 5 http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy
[17:03] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[17:03] <Xand3r> smarter: ha, here are no soundcards listed
[17:03] <a|wen> smarter: look at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[17:03] <apachelogger> rgreening: I am on vacation and ain't updating no one
[17:03] <a|wen> smarter: kpackagekit, go! quassel, go! knights+nateon, dead! s-c-p-k, jr helps out! digikam/kipi, we'll try to get room! kget/ktorrent, kget should not be a replacement for ktorrent! tabs, yay! stickers, yay!
[17:04] <a|wen> smarter: that was the very compressed version :)
[17:04]  * JontheEchidna golf claps
[17:04]  * ScottK would really like to have a Jaunty+1 feature goal "No half baked crack that we're including because we know it will eventually be good."
[17:04] <rgreening> can someone kik apachelogger from channel to ensure he does no work as he's on vacation :P haha
[17:04] <rgreening> j/k
[17:04] <ScottK> vorian could.
[17:04] <DaSkreech> Hallo all
[17:04] <rgreening> o/
[17:04] <ScottK> Hello DaSkreech.
[17:04]  * DaSkreech hands rickspencer3 a mug of something hot and spiced
[17:05]  * DaSkreech gets apachelogger sweet biscuits
[17:05]  * ScottK gives DaSkreech a whack on the head for to much sucking up to management.
[17:05] <apachelogger> apachelogger(tm) sweet biscuits!
[17:05] <smarter> a|wen: that doesn't tell me what was decided :p
[17:05] <rgreening> smarter: yay = approved
[17:05] <DaSkreech> ScottK:  I'm not sucking up :) I'm glad he's here
[17:05] <rgreening> hah
[17:05] <apachelogger> smarter: I shall become king of kubuntu island
[17:06] <apachelogger> smarter: that is about everything I can remember
[17:06] <smarter> a|wen: thanks :) what was that sticker thing exactly?
[17:06] <ScottK> ;-)
[17:06] <a|wen> smarter: go = approved (but needs improvement)
[17:07] <a|wen> smarter: and no decision on kget really
[17:07] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ok forget the nice jaunty idea - the repository i need for kernel and stuff for the eeepc doesn't offer jaunty yet
[17:07]  * smarter is not particularly fan of kget
[17:07] <Nightrose> intrepid it is
[17:08] <smarter> but /me is a fan of ktorrent :P
[17:08] <apachelogger> Nightrose: why would you need a special kernel?
[17:08] <apachelogger> smarter: the main idea is to have a download manager in general
[17:08] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: You need to show me how to get kget to work
[17:08] <Nightrose> apachelogger: to get wireless working and so on http://www.array.org/ubuntu/index.html
[17:09] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I would find it weird if stock jaunty doesn't work without 3rd party packages :P
[17:09] <a|wen> smarter: kget will not replace ktorrent there was some sorf of consensus about
[17:09] <Nightrose> apachelogger: hmm well hardy and intrepid don't
[17:10] <apachelogger> hardy = old
[17:10] <apachelogger> intrepid = not so old, but old
[17:10] <Nightrose> hehe
[17:11] <smarter> Nightrose: ath5k works nicely on my EEE
[17:11] <smarter> on 8.10
[17:11] <smarter> not sure if it's related with the custom kernel but I don't think so
[17:11] <smarter> and jaunty probably has a recent enough version of ath5k
[17:11] <Nightrose> ok I'll give it a try then
[17:12] <smarter> apachelogger: same for 4.1, 4.2? :P
[17:12] <ScottK> ath5k was paricularly broken on Intrepid.
[17:13] <ScottK> It's better with the kernel backports modules package (don't recall the exact name).
[17:13]  * smarter should try compat-wireless to see if it works better for him
[17:14] <apachelogger> kubotu: join #kubuntu-offtopic
[17:23] <apachelogger> Nightrose: uno?
[17:23] <rgreening> Riddell: I think there is a threading issue with Qt4.5 and KDE4.2.. still debuggin though...
[17:24] <apachelogger> rgreening: I thought they squased all core KDE issues
[17:24] <Nightrose> apachelogger: no time sorry :(
[17:24] <rgreening> apachelogger: well, I get segfaults running kreadconfig with kde4.2 and qt4.5
[17:24] <apachelogger> Nightrose: :(
[17:25] <apachelogger> rgreening: maybe you need to rebuild
[17:25] <rgreening> apachelogger: same with kstartupnotify4 (though it runs on second attempt)
[17:25] <Riddell> rgreening: I wouldn't spend too much time on that, best to wait until Qt 4.5 final is out
[17:25] <rgreening> apachelogger: I was thinking rebuilding kde4.2 may help
[17:25] <rgreening> apachelogger: is that what you meant?
[17:26] <apachelogger> aye
[17:26] <apachelogger> so
[17:26] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm not sure it's a qt issue. It could be kde needs a rebuild as apachelogger indicates.
[17:26] <Riddell> it's not a linking issue
[17:26] <apachelogger> who is up for a round of uno now that jussi01 got lost?
[17:26] <rgreening> uno is awesome
[17:26] <rgreening> hah
[17:26] <smarter> Riddell: so I've to send you a mail to get stickers? :) (quickly looking at the log atm)
[17:27] <smarter> rgreening: tries with a recent qt snapshot maybe?
[17:27] <smarter> beta is quiet old I think
[17:27] <rgreening> smarter: I gues I could get a svn copy and work from it...
[17:28] <smarter> except they don't use svn :P
[17:28] <smarter> their is daily snapshot on the website
[17:28] <smarter> and soon we'll have a nice git repo (:
[17:28] <rgreening> smarter: oh.. I'll have to look again. never saw it
[17:29] <Riddell> smarter: yes
[17:31] <smarter> Riddell: you know how much stickers we'll get?
[17:31] <Riddell> smarter: a sheet I expect
[17:32] <smarter> cool
[17:32] <jussi01>  Riddell I want stickers"
[17:32] <jussi01> !!
[17:32] <rgreening> smarter: the snapshot dir is empty
[17:32] <smarter> strange
[17:32] <smarter> you're on the ftp?
[17:32] <rgreening> ya
[17:33] <rgreening> ftp://ftp.silug.org/pub/qt/snapshots
[17:33] <smarter> I don't think this is the main mirror
[17:33] <rgreening> nm..
[17:33] <rgreening> ya just found the main site
[17:36] <rgreening> smarter: hmm... beta 111 meg snapshot is 57Meg
[17:36] <Riddell> jussi01: then e-mail me your postal address with STICKERS in the title
[17:37] <jussi01> Riddell: ahh, ok. which address?
[17:37] <jussi01> ie. which email? any?
[17:39] <smarter> jussi01: jriddell AT ubuntu DOT com
[17:40] <jussi01> smarter: thanks
[17:41] <jussi01> Riddell: sent :D
[17:50] <ScottK> rickspencer3: I hope the current discussion about providing an option in Gnome to make ctrl-alt-backspace work properly doesn't spill over into KDE.  For KDE and it's perspective on options, I think exposing it to the user is clearly the right choice.
[17:51] <rickspencer3> ScottK: Does Kubuntu have the same design ethic of minimizing user options to what is absolutely necessary, and also minimizing exposure to underlying infrastructure?
[17:51] <ScottK> rickspencer3: No.
[17:51] <ScottK> KDE is all about giving users choice to make the system work best for them.
[17:53] <seele> rickspencer3: out design ethic is functional design, not universal usability
[17:53] <seele> rickspencer3: we maximize for our identified target audiences and then try to make it accessible for those outside our target
[17:55] <ScottK> As an added bonus, this was all discussed in depth at UDS and decided ...
[17:55] <DaSkreech> ScottK: But is Kubuntu KDE? :-D
[17:56] <Nightrose> yes
[17:56] <seele> Kubuntu is a KDE distribution. We are not Ubuntu with KDE
[17:56] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: That one question is almost the fundamental difference between users of Gnome and users of KDE
[17:57] <DaSkreech> I know I'm just teasing :) rickspencer3 asked about Kubuntu and ScottK responded with KDE :)
[17:57] <ScottK> +1 Nightrose.
[17:58] <rgreening> heh
[17:58] <DaSkreech> Why doesn't alt+ctrl+backspace work properly ?
[17:58] <rickspencer3> So if you guys think it is a worthwhile option for Kubuntu users, then I think you should consider including it
[17:58] <rgreening> DaSkreech: it does. it was disabled upstream
[17:58] <rickspencer3> I however, feel that it is not useful to expose in a GUI
[17:59] <seele> was this a discussion on a mailing list?
[17:59] <rgreening> DaSkreech: install DonZap package to change the default option (or manually edit xorg.conf)
[17:59] <DaSkreech> By upstream I guess you mean upstream Gnome and not upstream X ?
[17:59] <seele> DaSkreech: X changed the default
[17:59]  * DaSkreech hates X anyway
[17:59] <seele> in their conf, correct?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> At UDS the deciscion was taken to try to create a simple grid-like editor for xorg.conf. Unfortunately, it does not appear that the editor will be done in time for Jaunty. Perhaps in Jaunty universe though. The checkbox was a patch proposed to make up for this.
[18:00] <seele> rickspencer3: didn't alberto commit a patch for the kde config dialog?
[18:00] <ScottK> seele: Yes.
[18:01] <rickspencer3> DaSkreech: yes, this was disabled in upstream X, and yet there is an xorg.conf option to turn it back on
[18:01] <rgreening> the package from alberto works great
[18:01] <ScottK> rickspencer3: My recollection was we got promised a GUI way to reenable it.  The xorg.conf editor is way beyond that.
[18:01] <DaSkreech> How do they propose to do an emergency restart of X ?
[18:01] <rgreening> the package DontZap with the patch to the displayconfig in system settings is fine
[18:02] <rickspencer3> seele: yes, he did one for Kubuntu and one for Ubuntu. However, their is some disagreement if this is appropriate for a GUI option in Ubuntu
[18:02] <rgreening> +1 from me for the Kubuntu solution and where it is currently implemented
[18:02] <ScottK> Yes
[18:02] <seele> rickspencer3: right, so what does that have to do with *K*ubuntu
[18:02] <DaSkreech> Anyone have a link to the X discussion/announcement about this?
[18:02] <rgreening> :)
[18:02] <ScottK> seele: It doesn't and that was my point.
[18:03] <Riddell> nobody has actually suggested anything different about Kubuntu as far as I see
[18:03] <Riddell> ScottK was just pre-empting it
[18:03] <ScottK> yes, exactly.
[18:03] <seele> ok
[18:04] <ScottK> Do what you want with Gnome, I think given it's general approach the discussion has some merits.
[18:04] <ScottK> For KDE, I think we clearly want the option.
[18:04]  * seele just had an hour and half of stats, brain is only now reforming into a solid state
[18:05] <Bernardo> hi
[18:06] <rgreening> o/
[18:06] <rickspencer3> Riddell: yes, no one has mentioned Kubuntu in the discussion so far
[18:07] <Bernardo> anyone else having problems with digikam (from the experimental ppa) and kde 4.2?
[18:07] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Just wanted to make sure you had the sense from here if it goes that way.
[18:08] <DaSkreech> OK it's something they have had for a while they just flipped it to on by default
[18:08] <DaSkreech> I really don't understand what X.org is trying to accomplish
[18:08] <DaSkreech> well I do I just don't get how they are doing it
[18:08] <Nightrose> DaSkreech: prevent people from unwillingly killing their X?
[18:08] <Nightrose> happened to me in early linux days
[18:08] <Nightrose> very uncool
[18:09] <Nightrose> but i am generally for an option for kubuntu
[18:09] <Bernardo> let me guess, you're talking about the dontzap change?
[18:09] <Nightrose> yes
[18:09] <Bernardo> I'd rather have ctrl-alt-backspace enabled by default
[18:10] <DaSkreech> Nightrose: yeah but they are going for configles X and bulletproof X and oing all of these changes in themain trunk while X gets flakier than ever
[18:10] <Nightrose> DaSkreech: i am not for enableing it or disabeling it by default - don't care really as long as there is an option
[18:11] <Nightrose> i want it enabled for me now
[18:11] <Nightrose> but i know newbies might not like it
[18:12] <DaSkreech> honestly I'd prefer a kill switch like Ctrl+M
[18:12] <DaSkreech> The first time that you do it it interrupts the action and pops up a dialog telling you that you did this what it will do would you like to continue
[18:13] <ScottK> Bernardo: A lot of people argued for it to be default.  We lost at UDS, so at least it will be easy to turn on.
[18:13]  * Bernardo has a one year old that already walks. A way to disable shutdown when the power button is pressed would be much more important than disabling ctrl-alt-backspace
[18:13] <Nightrose> hehe
[18:13] <DaSkreech> That way it informs, it doesn't stop the "normal" flow and expectatons and once it's done you can choose never to see it again
[18:14] <Bernardo> ScottK: in the ubuntu forums, the vote is very much in favor of keeping it enabled. I even joked it could be disabled for ubuntu and enabled for kubuntu...
[18:14] <ScottK> DaSkreech: That was also discussed.  I think the conlusion was it added more complexity than the benefit was worth (technical complexit)
[18:15] <ScottK> Bernardo: I very much agree, it's just already been decided and we don't have the resources to re-decide everything multiple times.
[18:16] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Well X is on a push to have all configs and so on be graphical (bad idea) so maybe they could be asked to look at it?
[18:16] <ScottK> Disabling it was a concious decision on their part.
[18:18] <Bernardo> I do hope they never disable xorg.conf overriding whatever auto detection is made
[18:18] <Bernardo> it is the only way I can get X to display by hdmi on my tv instead of trying to use the vga output that is not connected
[18:21] <DaSkreech> Bernardo: I think the mindest is that X should be able to start without a xorg.conf existing at all but whenever one exists then it will respect it
[18:22] <DaSkreech> I still think it's a bad idea to have the main configuration to get X working within a working X but maybe they will make it bulletproof one day
[18:23] <Bernardo> lets hope so. One of the reasons I prefer KDE over the nameless other is configurability. :)
[18:30] <DaSkreech> Bernardo: OSX ?
[18:30] <a|wen> ScottK: your xserver-xorg doesn't seem to break ati in general
[18:31] <ScottK> a|wen: Thanks.  Notice any difference?
[18:31]  * a|wen just found out that he can't even enable plasma
[18:31] <smarter> ScottK: what's your xorg for?
[18:32] <ScottK> smarter: Drop the Fedora optimization for compiz that causes all the momentary video garbage.
[18:32] <a|wen> had to move my installation to an old laptop just before leaving home
[18:32] <smarter> ScottK: ah that'd be cool
[18:32] <smarter> people yell at Kubuntu saying we break KDE and stuff
[18:33] <smarter> when most of the time it's crappy X patches :P
[18:33] <ScottK> smarter: It's in my PPA (~kitterman) if you want to try it.
[18:33] <smarter> ScottK: will probably do, not much free time right now(exams exams exams exams...)
[18:33] <ScottK> Who is around that actually understands the myriad of PPAs we have and what they are for....
[18:34] <ScottK> I'm trying to determine which one(s) to push the xorg fix to.
[18:35] <Riddell> ScottK: kubuntu-experimental for KDE 4.2
[18:36]  * smarter has been asking for a wiki page explaining what they're supposed to do for a long time :P
[18:36] <smarter> ScottK: I guess kubuntu-experimental would be a good choice, unfortunately we advertised it as the repo to use for 4.2, so maybe we need a kubuntu-experimental-experimental
[18:36] <smarter> :P
[18:37] <a|wen> ScottK: kubuntu-experimental should be okay, as long at it is reasonably safe
[18:37] <smarter> Riddell: but then people who just want 4.2 will have it, and it may provoke breakages
[18:37] <a|wen> smarter: isn't kubuntu-members there for "misc tested/untested stuff"
[18:37] <ScottK> I think it's reasonably safe.  All I did was drop one patch.
[18:38] <ScottK> And it's one that upstream X won't merge.
[18:38] <a|wen> and it has been tested by a few ppl now also
[18:38] <ScottK> With Intel, Nvidia, and ATI.
[18:39] <smarter> a|wen: I honestly have no idea :P
[18:39] <smarter> I thought we didn't use it anymore, since people complained they received too much mail because of it
[18:40] <smarter> anyway, I don't understand why the LP people decided to change the PPAs urls, it's impossible that everybody will update his sources.list
[18:40] <a|wen> smarter: oh ... you are probably right
[18:40]  * apachelogger votes for switching to OBS
[18:41] <smarter> never tested it
[18:43] <ScottK> OBS?
[18:43]  * ScottK reminds apachelogger he is on vacation.
[18:43] <apachelogger> true
[18:43] <apachelogger> uno!
[18:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: opensuse build service
[18:43] <ScottK> Oh.
[18:43] <ScottK> No.  Please not that.
[18:44] <apachelogger> well
[18:44] <apachelogger> it doesn't eat uploads
[18:44] <apachelogger> it is open source
[18:44] <apachelogger> it doesn't change repo urls
[18:44] <apachelogger> and until a few weeks ago it had as signed packages as launchpad did
[18:44] <apachelogger> we learn: obs is the better choice at any rate
[18:44] <smarter> how is the waiting time before build?
[18:45] <apachelogger> + you can build the stuff locally and upload the bins IIRC
[18:45] <ScottK> One package I'm upstream for I had to ask the guy that was putting it on OBS to exclude the Debian/Ubuntu builds because the .debs it was spitting out were complete crap.
[18:45] <apachelogger> smarter: practically none
[18:45] <apachelogger> + there servers appear to be faster
[18:45] <apachelogger> + _live_ build log view
[18:45] <apachelogger> + the gui is wirtten using rails
[18:45] <smarter> LP has live build logs
[18:45] <smarter> but only the last five lines or something
[18:45] <apachelogger> no
[18:46] <apachelogger> lp has one-per-minute-5-line-snapshot logs
[18:46] <smarter> :P
[18:46] <apachelogger> at OBS you get the complete log up to to right now
[18:46] <apachelogger> + you can turn autorefresh on
[18:46] <apachelogger> + you can turn autoscroll on
[18:47]  * smarter accords two w00t points to obs
[18:47] <smarter> or: obs++ obs++
[18:52] <rgreening> smarter: sed -i 's/\/ubuntu /\/ppa\/ubuntu /g' /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:53] <rgreening> actually, don't for sources.list (that would break)
[18:54] <rgreening> I love sed
[18:54] <apachelogger> rgreening: care to join us for uno?
[18:56] <rgreening> apachelogger: sure, why not. where 2?
[18:56] <rgreening> what app?
[18:56] <apachelogger> rgreening: -offtopic
[18:57] <rgreening> kubuntu-offtopic
[19:01] <ScottK> Uploaded the revised xorg-server to kubuntu-experimental
[19:01] <a|wen> ScottK: cool
[19:03]  * vorian could what ScottK?
[19:04] <ScottK> Kick apachelogger so he takes his vacation.
[19:04] <vorian> true enough
[19:05] <vorian> i still have no power, it could be a few more days
[19:06] <ScottK> Kids are finally back at school here.
[19:06] <ScottK> Two hour delay, but at least I have a partial day of blissful solititude.
[19:08] <apachelogger> I am playing ze uno
[19:08] <apachelogger> more vacation is not possible :P
[19:44] <Riddell> do we have libmsn in a PPA for intrepid?
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: yes, experimental
[19:45] <Riddell> ok, new libmsn is in jaunty
[19:45] <Riddell> we should probably update experimental with it too
[19:46] <_Sime> Riddell: hi
[19:47] <Riddell> hi _Sime
[19:48] <Riddell> _Sime: so, threads in pykde kcontrol modules, are we stuck?
[19:48] <_Sime> is that that dbus problem again?
[19:48] <Riddell> _Sime: no, although I'm told there's a separate issue with dbus which I havn't looked at
[19:49] <_Sime> why do you need threads?
[19:50] <Riddell> that's how the system-config-printer application works
[19:51] <Riddell> it could probably be re-written not to, but would be easier not to have to
[19:52] <_Sime> threads in a config program?!
[19:52] <Riddell> run while it goes off making up its database of printer drivers, which takes some time
[19:52] <Riddell> or searching for smb printers
[19:52] <Riddell> stuff like that
[19:54] <_Sime> I don't know what system-settings thinks about that. But if it works then good for you.
[19:54] <_Sime> I don't have much experience there.
[19:54] <_Sime> you could also have a look at the multiprocessing module in Python 2.6
[19:54] <_Sime> it uses processes.
[19:54] <_Sime> it might be safer.
[19:55] <Riddell> well presumably system-settings doesn't think to highly of it, since it crashes :)
[20:01] <rgreening> hah
[20:08] <apachelogger> Nightrose: jussi01 cheated when he was dealer
[20:08] <jussi01> hahah
[20:08] <Nightrose> jussi01: !!!
[20:08] <jussi01> Nightrose: I did not...
[20:08] <JontheEchidna> lol
[20:09]  * Nightrose blinks
[20:09] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: kept stealing good cards
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> <.<
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> >.>
[20:09] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: !!!
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> ^.^
[20:09]  * JontheEchidna runs
[20:09] <Nightrose> hehe
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> kubotu: chat
[20:09] <kubotu> the build turns out to the ninja packaging guys will do :)
[20:09] <jussi01> kubotu: chat
[20:09] <kubotu> I think for now.
[20:10] <jussi01> ~list
[20:10] <jussi01> meh
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> kubotu: chat
[20:10] <kubotu> it was supposed to provide iPod support with Kopete and pokes at shlibs deps
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> lokl
[20:10] <JontheEchidna> *lol
[20:10] <jussi01> hhaahhaha
[20:21] <JontheEchidna> kubotu: chat
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> Isn't Arby a Kubuntu member?
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> he needs an IRC mask
[20:22]  * apachelogger still has an amarok one :D
[20:25] <rgreening> why does one need a cloak/mask?
[20:26] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: ^
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> for the lulz
[20:27] <rgreening> ok, so no real imp reason
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> So plasmoid-network-manager got uploaded to ubuntu right?
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> so I can archive what's in revu?
[20:28] <rgreening> Tonio_ was working on that... so he'd be best to ask I guess
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> well, it is in the archive, I just checked
[20:28] <rgreening> so we should be good then (I guess)
[20:29] <lex79> rgreening: kdm wont load with qt 4.5 :(
[20:30] <DaSkreech> kubotu: excuse
[20:30] <kubotu> Zombie processes detected, machine is haunted.
[20:31] <DaSkreech> There you go that's why
[20:31] <rgreening> lex79: tell me what happens exactly.
[20:33]  * a|wen notes that you really find all sorts of funny missing dependencies when running X apps in a chroot
[20:33] <rgreening> lex79: I had an issue with come applet causing plasma to crash (so I removed ~/.kde/share/config/plasm*) and then kstartupnotify4 would crash, but only on first attempt to login.
[20:33] <lex79> rgreening: When kubuntu start , I don't see kdm, I see a blank screen, system switch me in tty1 and I must start kde with "startx" in tty1
[20:33] <rgreening> s/come/some
[20:34] <rgreening> lex79: thats a new one. try changing to the vesa video driver in xorg.conf temporarily.
[20:35] <rgreening> and lex79, can you see if kdm or Xorg.0.log show anything that could lead to what causes the issue.
[20:35] <rgreening> kdm.log
[20:35] <rgreening> lex79: I
[20:35] <lex79> hmm...but with startx kde start correctly
[20:35] <lex79> with nvidia drivers
[20:35] <rgreening> lex79: not sure, could be it starts with different options...
[20:36] <lex79> ah
[20:36] <rgreening> lex79: I am uploading a new snapshot later (probably an hour or so, once I verify it compiles). So, you can try that one.
[20:37] <lex79> ok, I try later
[20:37] <JontheEchidna> lex79: btw, I uploaded your other plasmoid this morning, and archived the windowlist plasmoid you accidentally uploaded :)
[20:38] <rgreening> k. I'll msg here when uploaded...
[20:38] <rgreening> l8r. going home...
[20:38] <lex79> JontheEchidna: thanks :)
[20:38] <JontheEchidna> you're welcome
[20:39] <lex79> I didn't see windowslist in LP :P
[20:39] <DaSkreech> rickspencer3: You have a twitter or identica account ?
[20:39] <rickspencer3> DaSkreech: nope
[20:39] <DaSkreech> ok
[20:39]  * earle waves to DaSkreech
[20:39] <earle> <-- identi.ca/hex :)
[20:39] <DaSkreech> hi earle
[20:39] <DaSkreech> ha ha :-D
[20:40] <DaSkreech> Two guesses as to my identica :)
[20:40] <earle> :P
[20:40] <earle> I'm hex just about everywhere except freenode
[20:40] <earle> grumble grumble
[20:45] <seele> rickspencer3: might be a few minutes late getting home, i'm only leaving now
[20:45] <seele> rickspencer3: i'll ping you
[20:45] <DaSkreech> earle: :-)
[20:47] <ScottK> lex79: New packages need archive admin review before they show up on LP.
[20:48]  * a|wen will go to bed
[20:48]  * ScottK will too, but probably not for about 8 hours
[20:49] <a|wen> he
[20:49] <a|wen> needs a break from the arts removal stuff now ;)
[20:49] <lex79> ScottK now I know :)
[20:50] <a|wen> it is progressing: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RemoveArts
[20:51] <a|wen> night ppl
[20:52] <DaSkreech> earle: good bug btw :-) Got nice results
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> So what are we doing about basket?
[20:55] <earle> DaSkreech: :)
[20:56] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: 3basket-devel ?
[20:56] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: #basket-devel ?
[20:56] <seele> argh. not leaving yet
[21:02] <rickspencer3> seele: no problems
[21:02] <rickspencer3> good luck with the Baltimore -> DC traffic
[21:15] <astromme> ScottK: Looks like they (amarok/akonadi) are co-installable now. I'm still getting the symbol lookup errors, but at least I have my amarok back =)
[21:15] <ScottK> Great.  that was the intent.
[21:16] <DaSkreech> Nightrose: Amarok 2.1 is ready when it is?
[21:17] <Nightrose> jep
[21:17] <Nightrose> as always ;-)
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> Haha:
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> "It was found that chaining an irate, rabid badger to the mouse and keyboard was not properly handled by the operating system, and resulted in local denial of service. This bug applies to all versions of all operating systems tested."
[21:23] <DaSkreech> they still haven't patched that IRB in the middle vunerabilty ?
[21:23] <Nightrose> hmm just installed the latest daily jaunty
[21:23] <Nightrose> plasma crashes immediately
[21:23] <Nightrose> ideas?
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> what architecture?
[21:24] <Nightrose> x86
[21:24] <Nightrose> 32 bit
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> weird
[21:25] <Nightrose> fresh install btw
[21:25] <jussi01> distractions on in ##uno :D
[21:25] <Nightrose> i have 120 updates already
[21:26] <Nightrose> I'll install them and see
[21:31] <astromme> Nightrose: Do we still have the "all plasma applets not rebuilt" issue of a week ago?
[21:31] <Nightrose> idunno :)
[21:31] <astromme>  /s/Do/Might/
[21:31] <Nightrose> might be
[21:32] <Nightrose> currently installing updates
[21:32] <Nightrose> let's see
[21:32] <astromme> I had to manually remove the quickaccess plasmoid upon installing 4.2 RC to prevent crashes
[21:32] <ScottK> Why are you installing the RC and not 4.2.0?
[21:32] <ScottK> Blogged on the Fedora/Compiz X nightmare: http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/01/bug_254468_momentary_video_gar.html
[21:32] <astromme> A week ago, not now
[21:33] <astromme> There was no 4.2.0 then =P. Well at least no packages
[21:33] <astromme> ASSERT failure in fillAgentInstance: "Requests non-existing agent type", file /build/buildd/kdepimlibs-4.2.0/akonadi/agentmanager.cpp, line 236
[21:33] <astromme> Wonderful, now I get the above when starting kmail.... different than the lookup error, but still a crash... gah
[21:36]  * ScottK is off for awhile....
[21:41] <astromme> Is Kontact/kdepim/kmail scheduled for a 4.2.0 rebuild? I'm still at 4.1.96
[21:41] <astromme> And I'm guessing that's why I'm having the crash
[21:48] <DaSkreech> jaunty ?
[21:50] <astromme> DaSkreech: Yes, jaunty
[21:51] <DaSkreech> ok
[21:51] <astromme> DaSkreech: just finished with an aptitude full-upgrade as well, so I should have the newest packages
[22:04] <Nightrose> ok update seems to fix plasma crash \o/
[22:04] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: the folder view is too big on the small eeepc
[22:05] <Nightrose> it pushes the notes widget out of the desktop
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> notes needs to go bye-bye for jaunty
[22:14]  * DaSkreech likes notes
[22:14] <DaSkreech> I just found out I can drag text to the desktop and they auto become notes
[22:14] <DaSkreech> That's quite handy
[22:19] <ryanakca> jjesse: ping? Will you be available tomorrow to work on help.kubuntu.org?
[22:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: Is that blog post like you wanted when you said I should blog about the xserver Fedora/Compiz thing?
[22:34] <seele> rickspencer3: pong.. i made it home in decent time
[22:36] <ScottK> seele: It seems you never can tell what blog posts get lots of comments.  So far my last got one and I expect to get dumped on by the Compiz fanboys.
[22:37] <seele> ScottK: yeah really. the internet is a strange place :)
[22:38] <ScottK> seele: OTOH, reading Mackenzie Morgan's latest blog post it sounds  like she wants to be a KDE user.
[22:39] <seele> ScottK: i think she might be at the party on friday, you'll have to convert her
[22:42] <DexterF> ScottK: didn't know kub had a seperate devel chan. last time I checked didn't, but that's some time ago
[22:42] <ScottK> Are you on Jaunty or Intrepid?
[22:42] <DexterF> well ok, anyway. packages is there, packages.ub... says should be in there but I don't see it
[22:43] <DexterF> intrepid
[22:43] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Links for both blogs ?
[22:43] <ScottK> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2009/01/since-we-all-know-x-is-nowhere-near.html is Mackenzie's
[22:43] <DexterF> aha! your search was in jaunty. I was starting to think I was too dumb to search... in intrepid there's no such file at all
[22:43] <ScottK> Mine is http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/01/bug_254468_momentary_video_gar.html
[22:44] <ScottK> DexterF: Do you have 4.1 or 4.2 installed?
[22:44] <DexterF> ScottK: whatever comes woth 8.10
[22:44] <DexterF> *with
[22:44] <ScottK> That's 4.1
[22:44] <DexterF> yup, checked
[22:44] <DaSkreech> apparently releases really confuse people new to linux
[22:45] <DaSkreech> having to explain that you can't get 4.2 on hardy takes a little getting through to some people
[22:45] <DaSkreech> then explaining that Ibex doesn't come with 4.2 is another thing
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> lol
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> Then people get mad at censorship of bad words when they learn that 4.2 isn't available for Hardy
[22:46] <DexterF> DaSkreech: been around linux for 10 years now but I expect to have stable releases to have a certain functionality the way they are, that includes changing the desktop elements colors. something even windows can do ;)
[22:47] <DaSkreech> Ibex wasn't really considered a stable release :-)
[22:47] <DexterF> officially?
[22:47] <DexterF> do tell people then
[22:47] <DaSkreech> LTS +1 releases are normally more focused on trying out hairy stuff
[22:47] <DexterF> that's what betas are for imo
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> LTS != stable
[22:47]  * ScottK needs to run off.
[22:48] <DexterF> ScottK: been there?
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> or rather, it just means security support for longer
[22:48] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: no but it focuses on being more stable in the design plans
[22:48] <DaSkreech> The +1 design plans are usually something along the lines of "do what you want as long as the monkeys stay out of the Punch bowl"
[22:48] <DexterF> so ubuntu releases aren't meant to be stable at all or what.
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> well, there's only so much control we have...
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> Intrepid's fairly stable
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> I never had more than a few crashes period after the final release
[22:49] <DexterF> so 9.04 is gonna be a "usable" one?
[22:49] <DaSkreech> DexterF: They are but a) there are things that maybe out of the control or canonical and b) sometimes you can err on the side of features or err on the side of stabilty
[22:50] <jjesse> ryanakca: umm can it be next week?
[22:50] <DaSkreech> The final releases are generally usable
[22:51] <ScottK> I use KDE 4.1 every day and it's generally fine.
[22:51] <DexterF> DaSkreech: it's open src... there shouldn't be much out of control here. see debian.
[22:51] <DaSkreech> DexterF: Debian errs very much on the side of stabilty
[22:51] <DaSkreech> and has quite a different release schedule
[22:51] <ScottK> DexterF: We had to pick between a somewhat underfeatured 4.1 and an ancient 3.5.  We picked 4.1.
[22:52] <ScottK> If you want 3.5 --> Lenny is that way.
[22:52] <DaSkreech> You can see Ubuntu as two cycles a 2 year LTS cycle and a 6 month feature race cycle
[22:52] <DexterF> ScottK: well, it's only a testing VM becuase I suspect the goons I support in private to move to kde4 sooner or later and I have to catch up. I seriously consider going to lenny, that "ancient" 3.5 does quite a job here
[22:53] <ScottK> Well I have a 3.5 desktop too, so I understand.
[22:53] <DexterF> don't know about how hairy it is beneath the hood but to call 4.1 "underfeatured" is an understatement
[22:53] <DaSkreech> DexterF: No harm no foul :) but KDE 4.3 should be pretty compelling
[22:53] <DexterF> I consider it beta
[22:53] <ScottK> OTOH, 4.2 is pretty good I hear and we have unofficial packages for that.
[22:53] <DaSkreech> KDE 4.2 is sating
[22:54] <ScottK> DexterF: We could have leaned forward or back.  We chose forward.  Neither would have been an entirely happy situation.
[22:55] <DexterF> ScottK: you could have gone for both: a kde3 and a kde4 edition
[22:55] <DexterF> twice the effort, given
[22:55] <DaSkreech> No resources for that
[22:55] <ScottK> DexterF: Nope.  Not enough people.
[22:55] <ScottK> Both would have ended up totally half assed.
[22:55] <DaSkreech> If someone wants to come and do KDE3 then that would be the situation
[22:56] <ScottK> We've had more than one person show up and say "I'll do KDE on Intrepid, it's not a big deal", but none have actually produced production quality packages yet.
[22:56]  * ScottK really needs to go now.
[22:57] <DaSkreech> Bye
[22:57] <DexterF> gotta admit I never made packages in the scale of a desktop like kde
[22:57] <DexterF> bye
[22:57] <DaSkreech> And generally people blur the line between third first and 1.5 party packages
[22:59] <DexterF> I.. don't get that sentence.
[23:01] <DaSkreech> KDE provides a set of packages which are both frameworks and applications
[23:01] <DaSkreech> Those are first party
[23:02] <DaSkreech> They have an SVN in which lives a fair number of applications which are not maintained or released by KDE Krew
[23:02] <DaSkreech> I call those 1.5 party not quite first but closer to a second party
[23:02] <DaSkreech> Then you have applications that just build on the 1st party frameworks which are done independently by anyone who wants to do that
[23:02] <DaSkreech> Those are third party
[23:03] <DaSkreech> For almost all users they just see them all as KDE
[23:03] <DexterF> indeed
[23:03] <DaSkreech> So If you package all of KDE and you don't include say Krecipe or Kmymoney
[23:03] <DaSkreech> People get irate
[23:03] <dtchen> FWIW, the future really is 4.x, not 3.5
[23:03] <DaSkreech> I don't think anyone other than SJVN is arguing that
[23:03] <DexterF> the future. but how about the present.
[23:04] <DaSkreech> Just is KDE 4 ready for right now
[23:04] <dtchen> as a desktop distributor, you have to make the difficult choice of deciding if/when to break things
[23:04] <DaSkreech> Remember when they forked Gnome after 2.0 cause it was so bad people who were using Gnome 1.4 couldn't live with it
[23:04] <DexterF> that's how I came to kde...
[23:05] <DaSkreech> No one wants Gnome 1.4 now but at the time It was pretty rough
[23:05] <DaSkreech> KDE3 has lived long enough to get people over the hump I think KDE 4.2 is quite nice
[23:05] <DaSkreech> KDE 4.3 is going to be very compelling
[23:05] <DexterF> gnome 1.4 is technically outdated by far, but the design was a lot clearer and gnome2 was ridden with horrible design bugs, both technically and usability wise
[23:06] <DaSkreech> Well they have Gnome 3 so we shall see what they do
[23:06] <DaSkreech> however KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were certainly usable but by few
[23:06] <DaSkreech> I think KDE 4.2 should be in general usable if you have some computer sense
[23:07] <DexterF> and now I've been happy with kde3 for years and try 4.1  - and stumble over BS like not being able to change the taskbar color so I can read it easily.
[23:07] <DexterF> ok, so ill give 4.2 a shot
[23:07] <DexterF> packages ready somewhere?
[23:07] <DaSkreech> topic in #kubuntu
[23:07] <DexterF> ah
[23:08] <DexterF> ok, I'll install and then come back bickering about that then ;)
[23:08] <DaSkreech> Themes are nice I'm using Silicon now but Serindad looks really colourful
[23:08]  * DaSkreech switches for a day or so to see how he likes it
[23:11] <DexterF> while I'm here: anyone know if open vm tools work alright in 8.10? the vmware tools won't give me a Xserver, 7.4.2 is too new
[23:12] <DaSkreech> DexterF: ping me in #kubuntu if you have issues
[23:13] <DexterF> sure will
[23:20] <ryanakca> jjesse: sure, I'm back at school next week and my free time will shrink dramatically tough. Can you tell me if the content will follow the same structure as help.ubuntu.com? If so, I can adapt their theme... if not, I'll have to wait.
[23:20] <jjesse> ryanakca: yes it should follow the same structure as help.ubuntu.com
[23:20] <ryanakca> jjesse: splendid
[23:20] <ryanakca> thanks :)
[23:25] <jjesse> ryanakca:  no problem let me know if i can help, i'm more availabve via email
[23:25] <ryanakca> jjesse: *nod*
[23:26] <ryanakca> jjesse: I'm planning on finishing up the wiki theme in the morning, and then I'll be free to tackle help.k.o :)
[23:28] <jjesse> ryanakca: cool, i'm excited for this to get done, we have to rely on nixternal for any build magic to get it over to you correctly
[23:39] <DaSkreech> The hell? people want alt+ctrl+backspace gone and no way to turn it back on?
[23:42] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: Vote! Should google gadgets be installed by default?
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> DaSkreech: can't!
[23:43] <JontheEchidna> it didn't passthe main inclusion process
[23:43] <DaSkreech> Oh :-(
[23:46] <JontheEchidna> yeah :(
[23:47] <DaSkreech> What did it fail?
[23:47] <DaSkreech>  did it study hard enough?
[23:48] <rgreening> o/ JontheEchidna
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> \o
[23:48] <rgreening> \o DaSkreech
[23:48] <rgreening> et al :)
[23:48] <DaSkreech> 0/
[23:48] <DaSkreech> I have a big head
[23:49] <rgreening> lol. I noticed
[23:50] <DaSkreech> JontheEchidna: is it something that can't ever pass ?
[23:50] <JontheEchidna> nah, it could eventually I suppose
[23:51] <DaSkreech> can it be put in -experimental ?
[23:54] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could you bump up the priority of https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepimlibs/4:4.2.0-0ubuntu2/+build/851876 (amd64) a bit?  It's been pending the whole day and it's blocking much of the rest of KDE
[23:54] <Hobbsee> Riddell: sure
[23:54] <Riddell> thanks
[23:55] <rgreening> ola Riddell.
[23:55] <astromme> Would that start the builds to fix KMail and such in 4.2?
[23:55] <Hobbsee> oh, darn it launchpad...
[23:56] <Hobbsee> it now plans to start in 59 mins
[23:57] <Riddell> astromme: that's the next step
[23:58] <astromme> Riddell: Wonderful. I feel hopeless without my KMail


[14:31] <cpaelzer> hiho
[14:31] <didrocks> hey
[14:32] <joalif> hi
[14:32] <slyon> o/
[14:32] <sarnold> good morning
[14:32] <cpaelzer> wow - what a crowd
[14:32] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[14:32] <meetingology> Meeting started at 14:32:18 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[14:32] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[14:32] <cpaelzer> didrocks: joalif: slyon: sarnold: (all already here) o/
[14:32] <cpaelzer> jamespage: ping for MIR meeting
[14:32] <cpaelzer> no previous action items to check
[14:33] <cpaelzer> let us see if the kinetic kudu already fills up any of our work queues
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[14:33] <cpaelzer> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[14:33] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[14:33] <cpaelzer> only known false-positives
[14:33] <sarnold> z3 is kinda real-positive, though, right?
[14:33] <slyon> I investigated llvm-toolchain-13 -> z3.
[14:34] <cpaelzer> sarnold: yes but we pinged foundations on it already
[14:34] <slyon>  llvm-13 is being pulled in by the new rustc MIR
[14:34] <slyon> it was excluded before. And then we have llvm-13 -> llvm-13-dev -> libz3-dev dependencies
[14:34] <slyon> so it's real, and Simon already had been looking into it
[14:35] <cpaelzer> for our screening I consider this "handled by the owner" and we can wait for it to resolve
[14:35] <slyon> ack
[14:35] <cpaelzer> FYI - we intend to try to re-tackle ipmitool MIR, so this long running visitor in mismatches might be gone at the end of 22.10
[14:35] <sarnold> \o/
[14:35] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[14:35] <cpaelzer> Mission: ensure to assign all incoming reviews for fast processing
[14:35] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:35] <cpaelzer> nullboot by juliank
[14:35] <cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nullboot/+bug/1965115
[14:36] <cpaelzer> looks like this was waiting for jamym to close to be finalized and directed at us
[14:36] <cpaelzer> needs a reviewer, anyone not busy with the roadmap sprint at the moment?
[14:36] <joalif> I can look at it
[14:36] <cpaelzer> thank you, assigned
[14:36] <joalif> ok
[14:36] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[14:36] <cpaelzer> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[14:37] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:37] <cpaelzer> no updates since last week
[14:37] <cpaelzer> the rustc related mdevtl which is on place #3 will come back next cycle as real MIR
[14:37] <cpaelzer> well it is in main, but I'll bring thes rust-mir-rules up again
[14:37] <cpaelzer> to be able to switch to the new version
[14:38] <cpaelzer> ok, good for now - going on
[14:38] <cpaelzer> #topic MIR related Security Review Queue
[14:38] <cpaelzer> Mission: Check on progress, do deadlines seem doable?
[14:38] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=%5BMIR%5D&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[14:38] <cpaelzer> sarnold: now that the release spike is done, might I ask how these remaining ones look?
[14:38] <cpaelzer> telegraf is next by order of milestones
[14:38] <cpaelzer> ccid/opensc/pcsc-lit is a security item anyway
[14:39] <cpaelzer> I know people in CPC that would love to get vulkan-tools done (I need to tell them how to prioritize them)
[14:39] <sarnold> cpaelzer: we haven't started anything new in the last week, we've been cleaning up loose ends all over the place; but the good news is, now we've got more people who've done one already :)
[14:39] <cpaelzer> \o/
[14:39] <sarnold> I'm unlikely to start in on another one in the next week though
[14:39] <cpaelzer> so can I ask to get eyes on telegraf soon'ish please?
[14:39] <sarnold> it'll be next, anyway :)
[14:39] <cpaelzer> use your new people :-)
[14:39] <sarnold> poor little guy has been on the queue for a whilke..
[14:40] <cpaelzer> next is great, but what I mean is not beeing "next" in October :-)
[14:40] <sarnold> *nod*
[14:40] <cpaelzer> thanks
[14:40] <cpaelzer> I'll talk to CPC about the prio of vulkan-tools
[14:40] <cpaelzer> that probably will need to go up in priop as well
[14:40] <cpaelzer> otherwise I'm happy on this list
[14:40] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[14:40] <sarnold> none here
[14:41] <slyon> no
[14:41] <joalif> nope
[14:41] <didrocks> nothing either
[14:41] <cpaelzer> fast and efficient (10 of 30 minutes) - I like that part of the ubuntu dev cycle
[14:41] <cpaelzer> no extra topic
[14:41] <cpaelzer> thank you all!
[14:41] <slyon> thank you cpaelzer, all!
[14:41] <didrocks> thanks all, cpaelzer!
[14:41] <cpaelzer> it will get busier for sure
[14:41] <cpaelzer> #endmeeting
[14:41] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 14:41:35 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-04-26-14.32.moin.txt
[14:41] <joalif> thanks cpaelzer, all
[14:41] <sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)


[11:51] <shemgp> Hello, does anyone know if there's a plugin or extension for gnome 3 ubuntu to have global menus?
[12:38] <pchoo> shemgp: you mean something like this: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/ ?
[12:43] <shemgp> Those are for starting applications. What I'm looking for is the global menu like in Unity (Ubuntu) where the application menus are in the topbar.
[13:20] <pchoo> shemgp: not that I'm aware of, others may do, though
[13:21] <shemgp> pchoo, thanks anyway. I think I'll have to build one myself :)
[13:22] <linux_unix-10> HI there!
[13:29] <linux_unix-10> Whenever I make my laptop (Lenovo Flex 2-14) go to sleep, it occasionally shuts off by itself.
[13:29] <linux_unix-10> Sometimes, the power button won't respond to presses for a long time!
[13:30] <linux_unix-10> I'm actually concerned that Ubuntu GNOME could damage the computer. Is there a solution to this?
[17:48] <ceed^^> My UbuntuGNOME desktop slows down over time. After an hour or so moving windows are jerky and so is minimize and restore. It's like the CPU is throttled. Nothing is hogging resources of any kind. If i restart GNOME with Alt-F2 r everything is back to normal. Never seen anything like this before. Ideas?


[03:29] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[08:00] <foxfp> is ubuntu moving towards replacing apt with the snap store?
[08:02] <lotuspsychje> foxfp: apt is cli, not sure what you mean exactly and what you heared
[08:05] <foxfp> i'm wondering if ubuntu is planning to replace their traditional package management with snaps
[08:06] <guiverc> foxfp, I've seen no real movement towards this... I have seen movement towards a snap-based desktop system + the traditional system (all flavors are currently deb based; some include some snap packages but not all do)
[08:06] <lotuspsychje> foxfp: the devs are working on a snap only based ubuntu flavour atm
[08:07]  * guiverc has now found 6 green SysRq keyfronts, 3x black SysRq, 2x grey... but no blue...  my color blue in #ubuntu earlier maybe was wrong :(
[08:08] <guiverc> many end-use cases will really benefit from a SNAP based desktop system (ie. Ubuntu Core flavor desktop)  but that's an extra product being my point
[08:09] <foxfp> is the snap server proprietary? i heard it was proprietary when i last talked about it
[08:10] <guiverc> foxfp, there are somewhat regular flavor sync meetings, where Canonical devs update flavors; the meeting minutes can be read on discourse which give a pretty clear indication (a source often used by bloggers.. those in meeting may hear a few extra things, but most go in minutes)
[08:10] <guiverc> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-flavor-sync-meeting-notes-may-8-2023/35642 is an example of what I was referring to