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[00:18] <paultag> copyleft-next - meh
[00:23] <skellat> paultag: Whaddya mean "meh"?
[00:23] <paultag> It doesn't solve many problems, IMHO
[00:23] <paultag> and rebuilding stuff for giggles isn't great
[00:23] <skellat> It is shorter than Apache and reduces GPL 3's language complexity
[00:24] <skellat> It might be a GPL 4 some day
[00:25] <skellat> But for now the idea is to express what needs to be expressed clearly and succinctly
[00:25] <skellat> And offer an alternative to license proliferation
[00:27] <paultag> I mean, you see that it's leading to license proliferation
[00:27] <paultag> it doesn't solve any problems that the GPL doesn't
[00:32] <skellat> Perhaps.  From Bradley Kuhn to Richard Fontana to Engel Nyst to Ted Ts'o to Pam Chestek to Luis Villa there certainly seem to be a bunch of license drafters behind it.  It has been on hold since May 2013 so whether or not the project is rebooted before 2014 is anybody's guess.
[00:34] <paultag> I know them, they're great
[00:35] <paultag> well some of them
[00:35] <paultag> (are great)
[00:35] <paultag> however, I dislike the idea that a wholesale fork is needed
[00:35] <paultag> (and disagree with)
[00:36] <Unit193> Does it permit the use of openssl again? :P
[00:36] <skellat> paultag: I meant to ask you how the tech-ctte discussion of That Canonical Init Manager versus Lennart Poettering's Brainchild is going
[00:37]  * Unit193 perks up.
[00:37] <paultag> skellat: It's going well
[00:37] <paultag> lots of lively discussion
[00:37] <paultag> sec
[00:37] <Unit193> Heh, yeeeeah, way too much for me to read. :P
[00:37]  * belkinsa wakes up
[00:44] <belkinsa> T minus 15 til meeting, yes?
[00:58] <skellat> 2 minutes
[01:00] <skellat> I call the clock as 8 PM
[01:01] <skellat> I, Stephen Michael Kellat, do call this meeting of Ubuntu Ohio to order.  The agenda for tonight's meeting can be found on the wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 for review.
[01:01] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1h2pzsJ
[01:01] <skellat> Who is in attendance at this point for tonight's meeting?
[01:01] <belkinsa> o/
[01:02]  * drkokandy here
[01:02]  * belkinsa is here for the meeting
[01:02] <skellat> I see dmcalloway_ has popped in and note again that the agenda for tonight's meeting can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 for review.  I do wonder where Unit193 wandered off to.
[01:02] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1h2pzsJ
[01:03] <dmcalloway_> Duly noted
[01:03] <skellat> Thank you for joining us.
[01:03] <skellat> Okay, let us go ahead to the first item on tonight's agenda:  Leader's Statement
[01:04] <skellat> The Leader's Statement states as follows:
[01:04] <skellat> "An unfortunate incident arose on Friday.  Severe reaction was seen where an employee from the legal staff of Canonical, the corporate sponsor to Ubuntu, sent a cease and desist notice to fixubuntu about their site.  While Mr. Shuttleworth later apologized, several disturbing things arose."
[01:04] <skellat> "There were harmful threats written against Canonical personnel as well as outright wishes to condemn Mr. Shuttleworth to damnation.  While the incident was unfortunate the reaction to it was blown completely out of proportion."
[01:04] <skellat> "The amount of outrage makes the whole incident seem as if an act of atomic warfare had taken place.  While I feel relatively sure that Canonical is not in possession of atomic weapons, it must be remembered that sometimes issues need to be regarded for what they are."
[01:04] <skellat> "Relatively speaking, a minor legal matter was exploded into a far greater amount of drama than would generally be expected.
[01:04] <skellat> "A community contributor and LoCo team owner, Aaron Toponce, departed the Ubuntu realm this weekend to the point of apparently deleting his account on Launchpad."
[01:04] <skellat> "A contributing developer, Benjamin Kerensa, has been offering ideas about creating additional bureaucratic structures or proposing organizational transformation in response to these events."
[01:05] <skellat> "2013 has been the year of communications problems for Canonical and the Ubuntu realm.  To some we seem to be the most active community but that is mainly because we communicate.  Some even think us to already be Approved or Verified even though we meet tonight to go over the paperwork to gain such status."
[01:05] <skellat> "As a community we must remember that there are many flavors of Ubuntu.  We are flavor neutral.  I encourage creativity and development if you do not like what you find in terms of what is offered."
[01:05] <skellat> "The archive is open to contributions.  If you spin a new flavor we can support such as a community.  If you think you can do things better software-wise and be successful, please take a shot."
[01:05] <skellat> "If you feel that you need to depart, I wish you well.  If you have any responsibilities to be transitioned, please let me know so we can handle that smoothly.  May you find fair winds and calm seas as you sail off to new adventures."
[01:05] <skellat> "For those who choose to stick around, we have a Verification application to consider tonight and need to discuss plans for the future.  Now is the time for us to decide where we are going."
[01:05] <skellat> So ends the statement.
[01:06] <skellat> Discussion on the statement is now open.
[01:08] <dmcalloway_> One question that comes to mind right away is the next Ohio Linux Fest - there was some confusion about whether or not softwar ecould be distributed there. Can we set that event as a goal, with a presence that allows for distributing software ?
[01:09] <belkinsa> May I ask when was this statement made?
[01:09] <skellat> belkinsa: Just written.
[01:09] <belkinsa> By you?
[01:09] <skellat> belkinsa: Yes
[01:09]  * belkinsa facepalms
[01:09] <belkinsa> Sorry, wasn't thinking there.
[01:10] <skellat> belkinsa: It is okay, it has been a long day
[01:10] <skellat> dmcalloway_: Once we clear the Verification application we'll be eligible to request CDs for distribution once again.
[01:10] <dmcalloway_> Okay, great !
[01:10] <skellat> dmcalloway_: The only CDs that will be available at this time are Long Term Support release in a mix of Ubuntu and Ubuntu Server discs
[01:11] <skellat> Since the discs will be for 14.04 it is necessary for us to get this going
[01:11] <belkinsa> Perfect for next years OLF though, right?
[01:11] <skellat> belkinsa: Yes
[01:12] <skellat> drkokandy: Anything you wish to say at this point?
[01:14] <skellat> Okay, does anybody have any questions or objections to the statement I have made as leader?
[01:15] <drkokandy> I guess just that I know it's not an "atomic weapon" attack, but I can honestly understand why this latest incident would be galling to people who have invested significantly in the community. I do see it as an issue and hope that Canonical reconsiders what would even be protected speech in the US against a corporation that individuals don't feel that they are a part of due to contributions, etc
[01:15] <skellat> drkokandy: Noted.
[01:16] <skellat> drkokandy: There are some behind the scenes things going on that frankly Mr. Shuttleworth isn't involved in.
[01:16] <skellat> LoCo Council is getting set to create a Communities Summit separate from UDS
[01:16] <drkokandy> I'm not blaming Mark Shuttleworth personally, I did say Canonical as an entity
[01:17] <belkinsa> Same.
[01:17] <skellat> LoCo Council also has an open action item to get a liaison for issues like this
[01:17] <skellat> I'm actually the one who brought it up at LoCo Council
[01:17] <skellat> About 3 weeks ago
[01:18] <skellat> From what I understand, Canonical really doesn't have anybody responsible for communications
[01:18] <skellat> And **that** is a problem
[01:18] <paultag> the Community team is s'posed to be that POC
[01:18] <drkokandy> agreed
[01:19] <belkinsa> Agreed also.
[01:19] <paultag> LoCo Council has a few other contacts (e.g. shippit team to dispatch swag)
[01:19] <paultag> but in theory the community team should hook LoCo up with things
[01:19] <paultag> I guess they're busy with JuJu right now ;)
[01:19] <skellat> paultag: Not as much anymore.  We're having to re-work things on the LoCo Council side.
[01:20] <skellat> paultag: There is only one person on Jono's staff currently directly responsible LoCo issues now.
[01:20] <paultag> wat
[01:20] <paultag> is it mhall?
[01:20] <skellat> Surprisingly not
[01:20] <skellat> I'm having to pull up my e-mail archive to get the name
[01:21] <skellat> David Planella
[01:21] <paultag> wait what
[01:21] <paultag> I didn't even know he was doing that, I thought he was app team
[01:21] <paultag> anyway
[01:21] <paultag> sorry to derail the meeting
[01:21] <Unit193> paultag: That's the difference, when you were in Ubuntu community directed the project, thus the community did the communication.  Now it's run by Canonical, but they still haven't got a communication person in.
[01:22] <paultag> indeed
[01:22] <skellat> paultag: It is okay.  A bunch of folks at Canonical have jumped between teams as of late such as the Mir tech lead moving to another team.
[01:22] <skellat> As leader, my goal is for us to succeed notwithstanding whatever happens at higher levels.
[01:22] <skellat> That's going to take some work.
[01:22] <skellat> But I think we can do it.
[01:22] <belkinsa> I think we can, also.
[01:23] <skellat> Right now the LoCo Council is dominated with folks from the Americas who are doing quite a lot of outreach.
[01:24] <skellat> And I do believe that I'm on record at each of the vUDS events this year yelling at either Jono Bacon or Rick Spencer over Canonical having trouble with communications.
[01:25] <skellat> UDS is in ten days and I guess I'll need to do that a bit more.
[01:26] <skellat> Okay, do we feel we've exhausted this item on the agenda now?
[01:26] <belkinsa> Yes.
[01:26] <drkokandy> probably
[01:26] <skellat> Lets turn to the second item on tonight's agenda, the draft Verification application to be put before the LoCo Council for consideration.  You'll need the draft open for discussion and it can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/VerificationApplication2013
[01:26] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/VerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/GIzKo7
[01:27] <skellat> To explain the process in our case...
[01:27] <skellat> As I am a member of LoCo Council, I have to abstain from voting on our application
[01:27] <skellat> A private tracking bug is open relative to the application
[01:28] <skellat> Unit193 and jrgifford are both subscribed to the bug in addition to myself though I am the Assignee for it
[01:29] <skellat> Though a number of applications have been cleared via e-mail through the bug process, our application must be handled in an open IRC meeting.  The next LoCo Council IRC meeting will be on November 19th.
[01:29] <skellat> Much of the reason for this is to prevent any ideas of collusion from arising
[01:29] <skellat> The Verification applications only really need to cover three data points
[01:29] <skellat> 1.  Do you have a Point of Contact who has signed the Code of Conduct
[01:30] <skellat> 2.  Are you "online services" up and running in accord with Naming Standards
[01:30] <skellat> 3.  Do you show signs of life and plans for the future
[01:31] <skellat> Two applications you can contrast and compare with our draft include Pennsylvania's and California's
[01:31] <skellat> Pennsylvania's: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/ReVerificationApplication2013
[01:31] <jenni> [ PennsylvaniaTeam/ReVerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/16Rmdok
[01:31] <skellat> California's: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/VerificationApplication2013
[01:31] <jenni> [ CaliforniaTeam/VerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsyB0z
[01:31] <skellat> Verification applications are not meant to be "Off With Their Heads!" moments but instead times to check in and celebrate successes
[01:32] <skellat> How say you?  How do you wish to consider our draft application tonight?  By sections or in whole?
[01:35] <dmcalloway_> I saw the item stating that there had to be 10 ubutnu members in order to have a council again. How does one become a member, and what are the benefits )if any) ?
[01:35] <skellat> Okay, we're taking it as a whole then.  Paging Unit193 for the item we've been debating back & forth!
[01:36] <belkinsa> First you need to be a Ubuntu member: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[01:36] <jenni> [ Membership - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fszbeF
[01:36] <belkinsa> Right?
[01:36] <skellat> belkinsa: Yes
[01:36] <skellat> At the top of the application is a list of the Ubuntu Members currently known in Ubuntu Ohio according to the LoCo Council's check script
[01:37] <skellat> Unit193 and I have been debating the appropriate number
[01:37] <skellat> Currently LoCo Council guideilnes **by themselves** do not require the principal Point of Contact for a community to be an Ubuntu Member.  To access the Community Budget administered by Jono Bacon's team, though, you **must** be an Ubuntu Member on record.
[01:38] <dmcalloway_> If I am a memeber of Ubuntu Ohio, am I already an Ubuntu member ?
[01:38] <skellat> dmcalloway_: No
[01:39] <skellat> dmcalloway_: This is where terminology in use sucks
[01:39] <belkinsa> Please see the link that I posted above.
[01:40] <skellat> The members of the Ubuntu Member group vote on the Community Council (Unit193, jrgifford, and I are the only Ohio residents who received ballots), have @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, can have blogs aggregated on planet.ubuntu.com, and some discounts with a couple vendors
[01:40] <dmcalloway_> I have seen this page before - okay. So I suppose I could (for instance) volunteer to help with documentaion, or learn to manage packages....
[01:40] <skellat> Those are some routes
[01:40] <skellat> There are many ways
[01:40] <belkinsa> Just figure out your skills and how you can use them.
[01:41] <skellat> Service in Kubuntu and Edubuntu or in IRC are routes too
[01:41] <belkinsa> Service in AskUbuntu and the forums are routes also.
[01:41] <dmcalloway_> And they are looking for activity of at least six months, right ?
[01:41] <skellat> dmcalloway_: Generally
[01:42] <skellat> What Unit193 and I have been debating is if 10 is the appropriate number
[01:42] <skellat> It could be higher
[01:42] <skellat> It could be lower
[01:43] <skellat> We could reinstate the High Council by Monday even
[01:43] <belkinsa> We could if it was a lower number but an odd number.
[01:43] <belkinsa> Odd numbers can break ties.
[01:44] <skellat> The High Council would remain 3 members
[01:44] <belkinsa> Can that work for us?
[01:44] <skellat> It is the general model in use.  I think we piloted it originally and even California utilizes it.
[01:44] <drkokandy> Can I ask, why the emphasis on who is an Ubuntu Member? Neither of the Verification Applications from the other LoCos appear to mention how many of their LoCo members are Ubuntu members
[01:45] <skellat> drkokandy: That ended up being discussed in the IRC meetings when those applications were passed
[01:45] <belkinsa> skellat, Ubuntu Women also has a council of 3 elected members, but this time it was a tie and there is four.
[01:46] <skellat> drkokandy: Even applications being handled via bug mail have Ubuntu Members listed in the discussion
[01:46] <skellat> The check script outputs a list of all the LP usernames
[01:46] <drkokandy> And is our number of Ubuntu Members significantly lower than these other two states?
[01:47] <skellat> By 3
[01:47] <skellat> Or so
[01:47] <dmcalloway_> CA reports 241 members on their mailing list, PA has 274
[01:47] <skellat> The Council isn't as much worried about numbers in the Ubuntu Member group per se
[01:47] <skellat> Just that they're there
[01:48] <dmcalloway_> If High Council calls for three members, and only three members are in the group, and one of them leaves/moves/etc., then what happens next ?
[01:49] <skellat> dmcalloway_: Back to sole leader again
[01:49] <skellat> drkokandy: From the Verification guidelines -- "Membership - Are there Ubuntu members on the team? Having an Ubuntu Member in a LoCo is not required; but however, Team Members with Ubuntu Membership shows wider Ubuntu involvement of not only the Ubuntu Member(s) but of the scope and knowledge of the team as a whole."
[01:50] <skellat> With "Community Budget" access being restricted to Ubuntu Members making requests...we may have to change some things around but for now that is how it reads over at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines
[01:50] <jenni> [ LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/GIztBH
[01:50] <drkokandy> if that's the guideline, it sounds like we meet it, right?
[01:50] <skellat> drkokandy: Yep
[01:51] <dmcalloway_> I see - so the overall trend is "encouragement" from Ubuntu for as many formal members to be involved in running and organizing things as possible.
[01:51] <skellat> drkokandy: In some respects it is just me trying to make sure we have enough of a kernel to build from in potential growth
[01:51] <skellat> dmcalloway_: To an extent.  The Free Software Foundation, GNOME, and a few other groups have similar setups.
[01:52] <Unit193> I'm with drkokandy as I've already said, I don't see why the number of "Ubuntu Members" matters, just as the application says, that they are there.
[01:52] <belkinsa> Agreed.
[01:52] <skellat> Then let me put this question: When do we wish to return to having a Council?
[01:54] <belkinsa> Not at this time since we only have three Ubuntu members who are active in the state and we are having a hard time trying to get things done with the low  active members of the LoCo.
[01:54] <belkinsa> low number of active member of the LoCo*
[01:55] <drkokandy> I think when there is sufficient interest, with a goal of returning to a Council arrangement by whatever time elections would typically occur (assuming elections are time-based)
[01:55] <skellat> Right now I have no defined term so I'm trying to specify a trigger for when we get back to things
[01:55] <dmcalloway_> Agreed. There should be at least a few more members, even if only three are needed, just to avoid whipsawing between sole leader and council
[01:56] <belkinsa> Also, of the problem of if one moves to another state, we would have just two and that's an even number.
[01:56] <drkokandy> If I recall correctly, our biggest problem was that no one else put themselves forward as a candidate, right? plus the various reasons the other heads had to leave
[01:56] <dmcalloway_> Say, six members minimum ? That provides one alternate for each council member if only three are required for High Council
[01:57] <skellat> drkokandy: Yeah, that was a big issue at the time.
[01:57] <skellat> Okay.
[01:57] <belkinsa> Six would be fine, even four or five.
[01:57] <belkinsa> Though early next year, we will gain a new Ubuntu member.  So that change early next year.
[01:58] <skellat> For now I think we could go ahead and delete the line about return to a Council.  That's why I wanted to have tonight's discussion because I am not sure we're ready regardless of the goalpost set.
[01:58] <skellat> It still remains my personal goal to get people enfranchised as much as possible to do things like participate in the recently opened vote for Community Council.
[01:58] <drkokandy> I agree with that. It seems that Pennsylvania also does not have a council-based leadership
[01:59] <skellat> drkokandy: Right now the PA LoCo is based mostly in Philadelphia with little presence in the rest of the Commonwealth.  They're working on things though.
[02:00] <skellat> drkokandy: I even offered to drive over the stateline to Erie to talk to groups if their leader felt it would be worthwhile.
[02:00] <skellat> Just mix that with a run to Borders since that is where the closest bookstore is to me these days...
[02:01] <skellat> Okay, the return to Council line is gone.
[02:01] <skellat> How about the rest of the application?  Objections?  Additions?  Proposed revisions?
[02:02] <drkokandy> Should we have more of an introduction? I like how CA states briefly its mission and membership criteria at the beginning of theirs
[02:02] <belkinsa> Agreed.
[02:02] <skellat> Okay
[02:03] <skellat> Who would like to write that?
[02:03] <drkokandy> since I suggested it, I'm happy to try
[02:03] <skellat> Thank you drkokandy
[02:04] <skellat> We're kinda unusual among the US teams that signing the Code of Conduct is insisted upon but it **is** the first step towards enfranchisement in the Ubuntu realm
[02:05] <skellat> Before I forget, here is the Australian team's application that was approved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/VerificationApplication2013
[02:05] <jenni> [ AustralianTeam/VerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsCDWz
[02:06] <belkinsa> Oh!  I think we need to add our social media links.
[02:06] <skellat> And here is the Moroccan Team's application which is currently under an active vote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MoroccanTeam/Re-Approval
[02:06] <jenni> [ MoroccanTeam/Re-Approval - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsCMt3
[02:08] <dmcalloway_> WHo is jenni ?
[02:08] <belkinsa> A bot.
[02:08] <skellat> dmcalloway_: jenni is the bot herded by yano that helps show what links are, responds to some weather check commands, and occasionally injects a little inappropriateness into the channel
[02:10] <dmcalloway_> I see - I sort of suspected, but wondered how helpful she was, and how crazy quick she posted the shortenend links
[02:10] <skellat> .wx 44004
[02:10] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: ?, Dew Point: ?, Pressure: ?mb, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFRS 02:00Z
[02:10] <belkinsa> .wx 45069
[02:10] <drkokandy> A propos to nothing but having noticed it on the application, Do we have a sub-discourse on Ubuntu Discourse yet?
[02:10] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 11°C, Dew Point: 10°C, Pressure: 1001mb, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFOJ 02:00Z
[02:11] <skellat> drkokandy: That's very appropriate
[02:11] <skellat> drkokandy: And the answer is no, I haven't followed up on that yet
[02:11] <belkinsa> I was wondering that too.
[02:11] <dmcalloway_> Awesome !  .wx 43229
[02:11] <dmcalloway_> .wx 43229
[02:11] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 53.6°F (12°C), Dew Point: 30.2°F (-1°C), Pressure: 30.03in (1014mb), Wind: Moderate breeze 12kt (↑) - KCMH 01:51Z
[02:11] <drkokandy> .wx 44805
[02:11] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: ?, Dew Point: ?, Pressure: ?mb, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFRS 02:00Z
[02:11] <drkokandy> :-(
[02:11] <Unit193> hah.
[02:11] <skellat> Between the visit with the IRS in Cleveland, running an election, and the fact-finding missions I have been assisting on for the Ashtabula County Metroparks Board I had not gotten back to the sub-discourse yet
[02:12] <skellat> Alrighty
[02:13] <skellat> Before we close out this agenda item, when shall we date the application?  We are on the agenda for November 19th so I would suggest using today's date since we've now discussed it.
[02:13] <belkinsa> Yeah, that would be the best
[02:14] <dmcalloway_> agreed - today should be the date
[02:14] <drkokandy> Sounds good
[02:15] <skellat> Okay
[02:15] <belkinsa> skellat, do you think adding the links to the social media that we have will help us?
[02:15] <skellat> belkinsa: It'll be great
[02:16] <skellat> The point of a Verification application is to show what your community is proud of
[02:16] <skellat> Moving on to our 3rd agenda item tonight: Planning For The Trusty Tahr Release Cycle
[02:16] <skellat> The Trusty Tahr Release Schedule can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
[02:16] <jenni> [ TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsDWoq
[02:18] <skellat> Do we want to schedule any events related to milestones during the cycle?  Beta 1 will not be out until February 27th and that's only going to be for opt-in flavors.  Mainline Ubuntu is going without Alpha & Beta milestones during Trusty Tahr except for the Final Beta that all flavors are participating in on March 27th.
[02:19] <skellat> So, for those of us on the Xubuntu side of things we'll have alphas and betas to play with while mainline Ubuntu will instead have "cadence testing" with dailies all throughout.
[02:19] <skellat> I don't know off the top of my head what the opt-ins for alphas and betas were for Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mythbuntu, Lubuntu, and UbuntuKylin.
[02:20] <dmcalloway_> Would some participation in this cycle help with our application ?
[02:21] <skellat> For yourself for status as Ubuntu Member, sure
[02:21] <skellat> For Ubuntu Ohio...it won't impact us
[02:21] <dmcalloway_> I see... launch party in April ?
[02:22] <belkinsa> Heh, we tried and failed.
[02:22] <skellat> Our community is intended to act as a social homeport while others do technical work and translations like the Italian community
[02:22] <belkinsa> For this release.
[02:23] <skellat> Well, release is going to be on April 17th which will be the week before Easter.
[02:24] <skellat> So that is a tricky weekend
[02:25] <skellat> Some changes had to be made to this schedule so that Alpha 1 didn't get released on the day after Christmas
[02:27] <skellat> This will be an open topic for the time being since we're not yet at Thanksgiving even.
[02:27] <skellat> And to our 4th agenda item: Looking Ahead To The Future
[02:27] <belkinsa> Maybe we could have another meeting about this?
[02:28] <skellat> The question needs to be put: Where do you want us to be going as a community?
[02:29] <skellat> Since we're pretty much near the 90 minute mark, I'm going to leave the question put forward and we're going to carry it over to another meeting.
[02:29] <skellat> And to our 5th agenda item: Any Other Business
[02:29] <drkokandy> I think this would be a great topic for discussion on the mailing list, Discourse, or forums
[02:29] <belkinsa> Yes.
[02:29] <drkokandy> oh sorry
[02:29] <skellat> Is there anything else we need to take care of at this time other than reminding me to get the sub-Discourse going for Ubuntu Ohio?
[02:29] <belkinsa> I will save what I wanted to say for the next meeting and the other medias.
[02:30] <drkokandy> I have 1 (maybe 2) things
[02:30] <skellat> drkokandy: Go for it
[02:30] <drkokandy> I was putting together this first paragraph for the application, and I noticed this is still the mission statement on the wiki:
[02:31] <drkokandy> The OhioTeam focuses on distributing, advertising, and demonstrating Ubuntu in the state of Ohio. Through expansion of our projects, we focus on the areas of schools, businesses, and home users.
[02:31] <skellat> Well, we need to nuke that from orbit
[02:31] <drkokandy> This probably reinforces your idea of talking as a group about where we see ourselves going, but I think we should revisit that mission
[02:32] <drkokandy> Found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam
[02:32] <jenni> [ OhioTeam - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsFO0B
[02:32] <drkokandy> let me restate, I think we should take time at some point to try to identify a mission for our LoCo
[02:33] <drkokandy> That was my first item
[02:33] <skellat> I'll gladly fold that into the carried over future planning item
[02:33] <skellat> Second item?
[02:33] <drkokandy> the second item is, I would like to take some time between now and November 19th and try to go through the wiki and identify things like that that might come up as negative marks at our IRC hearing
[02:34] <drkokandy> there are a few pages that are quite outdated, and other things that we should probably just look at in case questions come up
[02:34] <skellat> That works
[02:34] <drkokandy> so I can volunteer to edit things, but since I'm pretty junior, should someone double check my work after I'm done?
[02:34] <skellat> I'll be available
[02:35] <drkokandy> Okay, I can let you know when I've done some changes and you can edit the page again if you think my changes were inappropriate
[02:35] <skellat> Sounds good.
[02:35] <drkokandy> That should be all for me
[02:36] <skellat> Anything else?
[02:36] <skellat> Okay.
[02:36] <dmcalloway_> Just a quick general question from me - has Ubuntu Ohio been larger than 99 people in the past ?
[02:36] <skellat> dmcalloway_: YEs
[02:36] <skellat> s/YEs/Yes/
[02:36] <jenni> skellat meant to say: dmcalloway_: Yes
[02:37] <skellat> Anything else?
[02:37] <dmcalloway_> I see - thanks jenni ! Also, is there anyone in Ubunto Ohio familiar with packaging ?
[02:38] <skellat> dmcalloway_: I've done a little and Unit193 might be someone you could talk to.  paultag is a Debian ftp assistant who could also dispense advice.
[02:39] <belkinsa> Mind if we have follow up meeting so we can talk about the topics after the 19th if possible?
[02:39] <skellat> belkinsa: Feel free to put forward a Doodle poll.  Just keep the week of Thanksgiving in mind while attempting to schedule.
[02:39] <belkinsa> Sure thing.
[02:40] <dmcalloway_> skellat, Unit193, et. al. : Great, I will follow up with you later on
[02:40] <belkinsa> Also, I will add the links to the socials
[02:40] <belkinsa> on the app
[02:40] <skellat> Okay
[02:40] <belkinsa> Thanks for the meeting skellat
[02:40] <skellat> If there is nothing further, this meeting stands adjourned.  A report will be logged on the LoCo Portal once the logging bot has caught up and posted to irclogs.ubuntu.com so I can do links back as LoCo Portal requires.
[02:41] <skellat> I will e-mail a link to the report once I'm done dealing with LoCo Portal.
[02:41] <skellat> Thank you everybody for attending.
[02:41] <belkinsa> Not a problem.
[02:41] <dmcalloway_> Thank you skellat
[02:42] <dmcalloway_> And thank you jenni for the crazy fast link shortening and weather reports !
[02:42] <drkokandy> .wx 44805
[02:42] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 14°C, Dew Point: 13°C, Pressure: 1009mb, Condition: Light Rain, Mist, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFRS, 02:30Z
[02:42] <drkokandy> oooh, numbers
[02:42] <Unit193> Temp: 53 F (12 C) ~ Overcast ~ Humidity: 55% ~ Observed: Sat 09, 20:52
[02:43] <Unit193> Pretty warm.
[02:43] <drkokandy> not bad
[02:43] <belkinsa> We have a twitter, mailing list, forums, and what else?
[02:43] <drkokandy> G+ still?
[02:43] <belkinsa> Link please.
[02:44] <drkokandy> belkinsa: https://plus.google.com/116070181546687340819/posts
[02:44] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio LoCo - Google+ ] - https://j.mp/1fsHaIA
[02:44] <belkinsa> Thanks
[02:44] <paultag> skellat: and gilbert is a DD too
[02:44] <belkinsa> For some reason I want to work on that logo.
[02:44] <drkokandy> There's a community, too, but it's less active: https://plus.google.com/communities/113576253272216114772
[02:44] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio LoCo - Community - Google+ ] - https://j.mp/1fsHeIm
[02:44] <drkokandy> I say go for it
[02:44] <paultag> skellat: a very active an important one
[02:45] <belkinsa> I will.
[02:45] <paultag> skellat: gilbert maintains wine and chromium and other big important stuff
[02:45] <dmcalloway_> paultag: I see - gilbert is in our group, right ?
[02:45] <paultag> dmcalloway_: very much so
[02:46] <paultag> moreso then me even
[02:46] <paultag> than*
[02:47] <belkinsa> He is based in Cleveland
[02:47] <paultag> Columbus last I knew
[02:47] <paultag> I was in Cleveland
[02:47] <paultag> West si-eeed!
[02:48] <paultag> Actually east side, but I like saying that
[02:48] <belkinsa> I live in Cincinasty.  ;)
[02:48] <belkinsa> Well 30 min north of it
[02:48] <dmcalloway_> I am here in Columbus as well - I think he'd be great to ask certain questions I had about packages in Ubuntu, particularly with the Software center
[02:48] <paultag> Skyline Chili 4 lyfe
[02:49] <belkinsa> Yup
[02:49] <dmcalloway_> Wow - we really are all quite scattered !
[02:49] <paultag> yar
[02:49] <belkinsa> Yeah
[02:49] <paultag> I'm in Boston again now
[02:49] <paultag> but I still idle
[02:49] <belkinsa> That member map doesn't help at all!
[02:49]  * Unit193 thinks it's handy for him that paultag idles. ;)
[02:49] <paultag> :þ
[02:50] <drkokandy> I live in Ashland.
[02:50] <drkokandy> oh well
[02:50] <drkokandy> :-)
[02:50] <paultag> brb, back to OpenPGP-land
[02:51] <belkinsa> But I think I know of one other Ubuntu user in my area but I think he just plays around with it in VB on his mac  and in class!
[02:51] <belkinsa> And he is a biology major
[02:52] <dmcalloway_> To clarify - gilbert = Michael Gilbert ?
[02:52] <belkinsa> No James gifford
[02:52] <belkinsa> https://twitter.com/jrgifford
[02:53] <jenni> [ James Gifford (jrgifford) on Twitter ] - https://j.mp/1fsI5J0
[02:53] <belkinsa> I think
[02:53] <drkokandy> that's how I started belkinsa - just playing around with it - but that led to more
[02:53] <Unit193> drkokandy: Right.
[02:53] <Unit193> dmcalloway_: Right.
[02:53] <Unit193> (wrong d<tab>)
[02:53] <paultag> dmcalloway_: yes
[02:54] <paultag> (PhD)
[02:54] <paultag> Dr. gilbert! :)
[02:54] <Unit193> Now, did we ping gilbert and jrgifford enough?
[02:54] <paultag> Unit193: not enough jrgifford from me
[02:55] <paultag> Unit193: so I'll do a few to jenni
[02:55] <paultag> Erm, jrgifford
[02:55] <Unit193> paultag: I see, we should ping jrgifford a few more times, then.
[02:55] <paultag> indeed, jrgifford will love that
[02:55] <dmcalloway_> Who is Unit193 ?
[02:55] <drkokandy> lol
[02:55] <paultag> dmcalloway_: Unit193 is Unit193
[02:55] <Unit193> Oh, I love how jenni likes thafreak.
[02:56] <dmcalloway_> I see - k
[02:56] <belkinsa> skellat: Added the links to the page, feel free to change it
[03:00] <belkinsa> If anyone cares: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1299
[03:00] <jenni> [ Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » Mistakes made and addressed ] - https://j.mp/1fsIUS5
[03:05] <dmcalloway_> Mark SHuttleworth seems to be a lightning rod of controversy sometimes... :)
[03:05] <belkinsa> Seems to be.
[03:05] <belkinsa> skellat:ping
[03:07] <belkinsa> Before I send out the Doodle poll, which times are okay for most of you and days also?
[03:07] <dmcalloway_> This time slot worked well for me
[03:07] <belkinsa> Day also?
[03:08] <drkokandy> I would put some weekday options as well - I know they didn't work that well this time, but the other two Saturdays on the Doodle didn't work for me last time I think
[03:09] <belkinsa> I did, also I have nothing for the Thanksgiving week.  It's that week before and that week after.
[03:10] <dmcalloway_> I see - for me, mornings are open Monday, as well as Wednesday to Friday. I work 2nd shift, so afternoons and evenings are out for me during the week
[03:10] <belkinsa> Okay
[03:10] <belkinsa> I feel like the weekend days work the best for the most
[03:11] <belkinsa> That includes Friday evenings
[03:17] <paultag> passive tone ftl
[03:17] <belkinsa> Is this good: http://doodle.com/7tqw3hixmi4h4qs4 ?
[03:17] <jenni> [ Doodle: Ohio LoCo Follow Up Meeting ] - https://j.mp/1fsKFPp
[03:17] <paultag> "Mistakes were made"
[03:17] <paultag> rather then "Canonical made a mistake"
[03:17] <paultag> Canonical made a mistake
[03:17] <paultag> oh wow
[03:17] <belkinsa> I know there is an errr.
[03:17] <paultag> nevermind.
[03:17] <paultag> title still sux
[03:18] <belkinsa> Okay, I think I fixed the poll
[03:18] <belkinsa> http://doodle.com/7tqw3hixmi4h4qs4
[03:18] <jenni> [ Doodle: Ohio LoCo Follow Up Meeting ] - https://j.mp/1fsKFPp
[03:24] <belkinsa> Night everyone
[03:24] <drkokandy> night belkinsa
[03:24] <jenni> oh baby
[03:24] <Unit193> Oh dear, now it likes you, drkokandy.
[03:24] <drkokandy> wha jenni?
[03:24] <drkokandy> omg
[03:25] <drkokandy> what did I do?
[03:25] <Unit193> drkokandy: Oh, and everything good over where you are?
[03:25] <drkokandy> yeah, things are good here Unit193, how about over there?
[03:25] <dmcalloway_> Goiodnight belkinsa !
[03:25] <dmcalloway_> Goodnight*
[03:26] <Unit193> I'd say fairly good, just waiting for the snow to hit.
[03:28] <drkokandy> are they saying Monday or Tuesday we could get snow?
[03:28] <Unit193> Tuesday.
[03:30] <drkokandy> gotcha
[03:42] <dmcalloway_> ChanServ
[03:54] <skellat> FWIW, I'm going to have to put LoCo Portal back on the agenda as the meeting report system on it still sucks: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-ohio/682/detail/
[03:55] <jenni> [ November Business Meeting | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal ] - https://j.mp/1cs04gO
[03:55] <skellat> .wx KHZY
[03:55] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 53.6°F (12°C), Dew Point: 35.6°F (2°C), Pressure: 29.91in (1010mb), Wind: Moderate breeze 13kt (↑) - KYNG 03:51Z
[03:55]  * skellat **SLAPS** jenni
[03:56] <skellat> jenni: Again you give me the forecast for Youngstown's Air National Guard base even when I specifically state the ICAO code for the Ashtabula County Airport
[03:56] <jenni> skellat: Nothing is truly random.
[03:57] <skellat> jenni: There's still Mafia activity out that way!
[03:57] <jenni> skellat, What is important to you?
[03:59] <Unit193> jenni: How ya doing, babe?
[03:59] <jenni> Unit193: I'm doing fine, how about you?
[03:59] <Unit193> :)
[03:59] <skellat> At least here's the local weather: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6391748/
[03:59] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Pastebin ] - https://j.mp/1cLpxWU
[04:00] <drkokandy> jenni is mafia
[04:01] <jenni> drkokandy: *is male* *youre female*.
[04:01] <skellat> .nws 44004
[04:01] <drkokandy> jenni: what?
[04:01] <jenni> There are no active watches, warnings or advisories, for Ashtabula, OH.
[04:01] <Unit193> drkokandy: She's hitting on you.
[04:01] <jenni> drkokandy: Implement Code B. Section 189_yllp-59.
[04:01] <drkokandy> again? this is one assertive bot
[04:02] <Unit193> "Tomorrow is forecast to be Much Cooler than today."
[04:02] <drkokandy> brr
[04:03] <skellat> So, is this Dr. Gilbert's dissertation?  http://tx0.org/6y3/
[04:03] <skellat> (Shortlinked because the original linked turned into a smiley when first pasted into the window)
[04:07]  * skellat is hopefully not walking the dog tomorrow whilst being pelted with ice pellets
[04:17] <drkokandy> I just noticed that our IRC meeting is the day after the 7th birthday of the Ubuntu Ohio Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio
[04:17] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio in Launchpad ] - https://j.mp/1cLqEpz
[04:17] <drkokandy> I mean, the IRC verification hearing meeting
[04:17] <Unit193> Heh.
[04:18] <Unit193> Met any other linux users locally recently?  For me it's still the people I knew.
[04:20] <drkokandy> No really, but I've been going out to the Akron LUG when I can. Some nice people there, and I've been learning a lot about different applications and technologies, since one or more members presents on a different topic each time.
[04:21] <drkokandy> *Not really
[04:24] <Unit193> Wow.
[04:27] <drkokandy> It's only about 50 minutes each way, but since it's usually dinner plus an hour presentation plus discussion, I figure it's probably worth it since there's still so much I don't know about Linux
[14:33] <andygraybeal> what is a good irc client for th eterminal, i remember irssi being good but that was years ago.
[14:34] <andygraybeal> i plan on using it with tmux.... i'm not used to tmux, i grew up on screen.
[17:34] <Unit193> andygraybeal: Irssi is the best, but some odd people use weechat, like yano.
[17:34] <andygraybeal> thank you
[17:34] <andygraybeal> i looked at weechat, it looks neat!
[17:35] <andygraybeal> and cute
[17:35] <Unit193> (Both are usable, I was kind of kidding, I use irssi. :P )
[17:35] <andygraybeal> :)  thank you
[17:39] <cid420_> I been waiting to be approved on launchpad for about a week now. how long does it take for me to be approved?
[17:41] <yano> WeeChat is better
[17:42] <Unit193> cid420_: Howdy, skellat was trying to say that you were only missing the signing of https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/
[17:42] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Codes of Conduct ] - https://j.mp/17h7KPy
[17:42] <cid420_> ok i will look into it
[17:42] <cid420_> thanks
[17:43] <Unit193> Sure, and welcome.
[17:48] <cid420_> ok I do not understand the question on getting a footprint. where do i get this footprint?
[17:50] <cid420_> ok never i figured it out. since i am running 13.04 where would i find this password and encryption for my OpenPGP
[18:26] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct or http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv might help?
[18:26] <jenni> [ SigningCodeofConduct - Community Ubuntu Documentation ] - https://j.mp/HLjFyS
[18:26] <jenni> https://j.mp/HLjDHn
[18:26] <Unit193> If you have a GPG key, then you will know it, if not, then you will have to create.
[18:51] <Unit193> BiosElement: Well heya!
[18:51] <BiosElement> Hey there, How's it going?
[18:51] <Unit193> Have coffee, but made it weaker than I'd like.
[18:52] <BiosElement> Strong coffee is important >.<
[18:53] <Unit193> Looking again at namecheap for domains. :P   Had an Ohio IRC meeting last night as well, and I read it, flavors we make here are accepted into the Ohio LoCo! :-----D
[18:53] <Unit193> (Kidding.)
[18:55] <BiosElement> Actually just reading over the logs now
[18:55] <Unit193> Darn, can't find the line I mangled to say that...
[18:56] <BiosElement> Soo, is now a bad time to mention I'm testing out Fedora? And that Gnome3 is actually pretty nice? *ducks under table and prepares for siege*
[18:58] <Unit193> I thought you had moved away, was guessing Fedora.
[18:58] <BiosElement> Moving away is too strong a word
[18:58] <BiosElement> Just Unity and my Nvidia drivers have some really weird quirks
[18:59] <Unit193> Heh, I don't/wouldn't like Gnome2, Gnome3, or Unity.  (Cinnamon and MATE too if I have to say it.)
[18:59] <BiosElement> Honestly I'm thinking of giving UbuntuGNOME a shot.
[18:59] <Unit193> Fedora has a newer Gnome, IIRC.
[18:59] <BiosElement> Unity + Gnome3 both have similar but surprisingly different workflows, but I think they're both worth trying out actually.
[18:59] <BiosElement> Yup, by a full point release
[19:01] <Unit193> Meh, I like Xfce, and Openbox isn't so bad at all, 'tis why I made a custom flavor of it.
[19:01] <BiosElement> I like my fancy things ;P
[19:02] <Unit193> Xfce is plenty fancy for me, openbox is the "bare" one.
[19:02] <Unit193> So, no love for KDE anymore?
[19:03] <Unit193> (http://unit193.ninth.su/openbox/ couple of older screenshots from me live system. :D)
[19:03] <jenni> [ Index of /openbox/ ] - https://j.mp/1dWuGbI
[19:03] <BiosElement> Nope, no love for KDE anymore. Not a fan of their kitchen-sink direction
[19:04] <BiosElement> Quite nice
[19:07] <BiosElement> "Debian started arguing about whether it should remove all references to the distro-that-shall-not-be-named but then decided to argue about whether it should enforce its own trademarks which lead to an argument about…"
[19:07] <BiosElement> I think I found my favorite line ever
[19:07] <Unit193> Hrm, and once it's actually done, LXQT isn't your thing?
[19:08] <paultag> uh
[19:08] <paultag> I found it insulting
[19:08] <paultag> it's the tone
[19:08] <paultag> marks really needs to talk with his doctor about all this pent up debian distaste
[19:08] <Unit193> I'd be happy if Ubuntu pushed good stuff back up, which it appears to actually do, at least somewhat to me.
[19:09] <BiosElement> It seems pretty fair to me. It's an overreaction and disturbing to be honest. One issue like this shouldn't be causing everyone to freak out.
[19:09] <paultag> BiosElement: did you even *read* the email
[19:09] <paultag> BiosElement: at the bottom ian says it was a *joke*
[19:09] <paultag> jesus
[19:09] <BiosElement> Yep, I've read the full email and that really doesn't matter in terms of the law, although it probably should.
[19:09] <paultag> wat
[19:09] <paultag> ok, back to real work for me
[19:10] <skellat> I was going to point this out that showed up on planet.u.c: http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/canonical-and-the-cease-and-desist-letter/
[19:10] <jenni> [ Canonical and the Cease and Desist Letter | Free Trader Beowulf ] - https://j.mp/1dWvm0F
[19:10] <Unit193> cid420_: Did you get it?
[19:11] <BiosElement> Yeah, I saw Jono's response and some of the other comments and stopped reading. It was honestly just depressing.
[19:25] <Unit193> But... Dang.
[19:33] <cid420_> Unit193, what tool should I use to create the GPG key, because the help was talking about the 10.04 and i have 13.04 kubuntu.
[19:36] <dzho> Exhibit A: http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/489/how-would-ubuntu-bug-1-be-fixed-if-ask-ubuntu-uses-a-windows-platform
[19:36] <jenni> [ How would Ubuntu Bug #1 be fixed if Ask Ubuntu uses a Windows Platform? - Ask Ubuntu Meta ] - https://j.mp/1dWxNjU
[19:36] <dzho> Exhibit B: https://micahflee.com/2013/11/canonical-shouldnt-abuse-trademark-law-to-silence-critics-of-its-privacy-decisions/
[19:36] <jenni> [ Canonical shouldn’t abuse trademark law to silence critics of its privacy decisions | micah.f.lee ] - https://j.mp/1dWxQwf
[19:38] <dzho> Either Canonical is careful about it's trademarks, and condones the use of Microsoft software via askubuntu despite Bug #1, or
[19:38] <dzho> it is generous about its trademarkes, but is using them to silence critics like Lee.
[19:39] <dzho> but then, we know all about this, given a) that "Ubuntu" would always be free, with no qualifications yet, b) Ubuntu One.
[19:39] <jrgifford> Unit193: paultag argh. :p
[19:39] <Unit193> paultag be gone. :(
[19:39] <Unit193> jrgifford: Howdy.
[19:40] <dzho> I think people are willing to cut a company trying to make a go of it some slack.
[19:40] <jrgifford> I go away for a weekend, and then I come back to this. ;p
[19:58] <cid420> ok its not taking my fingerprint whne I import it
[20:11] <cid420> No offence it seems when i ask for help i get ignored, is it because i am a newbie?
[20:17] <BiosElement> cid420, Generally people don't answer if they don't have any idea. It's nothing to do with you being new. You're better off asking in #ubuntu, but if it's just a gpg key guide there's one here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[20:17] <jenni> [ GnuPrivacyGuardHowto - Community Ubuntu Documentation ] - https://j.mp/eVZdTA
[20:18] <Unit193> cid420: I've not done it for a while, I use my gpg key but I don't do much.
[20:18] <Unit193> cid420: What's your fingerprint?  Did you upload it to a keyserver?
[22:50] <dzho> cid420: sorry.  what are you trying to do with your fingerprint, again?
[22:53] <belkinsa> If you are doing it the GUI way, the instuctions are outdated.
[22:53] <belkinsa> Or it seems.


[02:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: otb [s390x] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1] (no packageset)
[02:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: deal.ii [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [9.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[03:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: otb [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1] (no packageset)
[03:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: otb [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1] (no packageset)
[03:37] <slangasek> autopkgtests currently down; rabbitmq is offline
[03:38] <slangasek> (had died with an OOM)
[03:39] <slangasek> Laney, juliank: ^^ the juju state looks unpleasant; lots of failed hooks
[03:40] <slangasek> rabbitmq restarted
[03:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: otb [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1] (no packageset)
[03:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: otb [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1] (no packageset)
[04:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: otb [i386] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1] (no packageset)
[04:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted otb [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1]
[04:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted otb [armhf] (cosmic-proposed) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1]
[04:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted otb [arm64] (cosmic-proposed) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1]
[04:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted otb [i386] (cosmic-proposed) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted deal.ii [arm64] (cosmic-proposed) [9.0.0-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-git-lfs-go-netrc [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.0~git20180525.e0e9ca4-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-gomodule-redigo [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0.0-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-jedisct1-go-dnsstamps [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.0~git20180418.1e49992-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-mssola-user-agent [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.4.1-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libfabric [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [1.6.1-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted otb [s390x] (cosmic-proposed) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted readlike [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.1.3-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reparser [arm64] (cosmic-proposed) [1.4.3-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reparser [i386] (cosmic-proposed) [1.4.3-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted deal.ii [s390x] (cosmic-proposed) [9.0.0-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-google-uuid [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-xlab-treeprint [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.0~git20180324.505f0ee-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-aplpack [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [1.3.0-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reparser [armhf] (cosmic-proposed) [1.4.3-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reparser [s390x] (cosmic-proposed) [1.4.3-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-glycerine-go-unsnap-stream [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.0~git20180323.9f0cb55-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted otb [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed) [6.6.0~rc1+dfsg-1~exp1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reparser [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed) [1.4.3-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-jsternberg-zap-logfmt [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [1.0.0-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted seqmagick [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.7.0-1]
[04:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted reparser [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [1.4.3-1]
[05:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libtoxcore [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.2.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libtoxcore [s390x] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.2.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libtoxcore [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.2.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libtoxcore [i386] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.2.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libtoxcore [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.2.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libtoxcore [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.2.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libtoxcore [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2.2-1]
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libtoxcore [armhf] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2.2-1]
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libtoxcore [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2.2-1]
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libtoxcore [arm64] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2.2-1]
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libtoxcore [s390x] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2.2-1]
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libtoxcore [i386] (cosmic-proposed) [0.2.2-1]
[06:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-roaringbitmap-roaring [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.4.7-1] (no packageset)
[07:19]  * apw pokes queuebot ...
[07:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (bionic-backports/universe) [164-1 => 169-1~ubuntu18.04.1] (no packageset)
[07:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (xenial-backports/universe) [164-1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 169-1~ubuntu16.04.1] (no packageset)
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (bionic-backports) [169-1~ubuntu18.04.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (xenial-backports) [169-1~ubuntu16.04.1]
[08:04] <Laney> slangasek: that's the third time this has happened :/
[08:05] <Laney> juliank: thanks for figuring that out
[08:09] <Laney> slangasek: juliank: sil2100 (although he's not here): don't suppose any of you want to look into this OOMing problem?
[08:09] <Laney> I find it a bit disturbing that it didn't happen until relatively recently
[08:10] <Laney> so maybe something changed that needs fixing, but maybe we also should look into that HA thing that I linked on the bug?
[08:10] <Laney> and/or get a bigger instance for the rmq server maybe in the interim
[08:12] <apw> or add some swap to it ?
[08:13] <Laney> yeah maybe, it doesn't have any
[08:13] <Laney> is that normal for cloud instances?
[08:19] <apw> nope not common, but the kernel likes a little swap if it can get it, it lets it avoid ooming
[08:19] <apw> in a number of cases
[08:19] <Laney> if it's a leak this might just push the problem down the road a bit
[08:20] <apw> indeed there is always that risk
[08:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cups-pk-helper [source] (bionic-proposed) [0.2.6-1ubuntu1.1]
[09:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted kdeconnect [source] (bionic-proposed) [1.3.1-0ubuntu0.1]
[09:32] <juliank> Laney: I did not figure it out, others noticed cloud-init not running on their systems
[09:33] <Laney> juliank: oh ok, then lucky you :P
[09:35] <juliank> yeah lucky me
[09:57] <rbalint> tjaalton, i just marked LP: #1770650 as verification-done for xenial and artful, could you please release the package even though it is Friday? I'll be available tomorrow if there is any need to address issues
[10:34] <apw> rbalint, did you get that released ?
[10:35] <rbalint> apw, not yet, and now i only pinged people here :-)
[10:36] <apw> rbalint, then if you are available to check for issues with these then they could be released i guess
[10:48] <rbalint> apw, as we discussed privately i'm ready to fix things tomorrow and i'd like to get the package released but i'd need others to accept any of my fixes as SRUs thus let's wait for slangasek a few hours with the xenial release
[10:48] <apw> rbalint, ack
[11:03] <tjaalton> rbalint: need my help still?
[11:04] <rbalint> tjaalton, thanks, no apw helped me out
[11:09] <tjaalton> okay
[12:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-samr [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0-1] (no packageset)
[12:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-samr [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0-1] (no packageset)
[12:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-samr [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0-1] (no packageset)
[13:41] <doko> Laney<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:43] <doko> hmm, that could be uninstallability of the cross compilers
[16:32] <slangasek> Laney: third time over how long a period?
[16:32] <Laney> slangasek: A few weeks. Let me see if the first occurence is in dmesg still
[16:33] <slangasek> rbalint: friday SRU release> well the difficulty is I'm sure /I/ won't be around to help with any reverts; so who will you have from the SRU team to cover?
[16:36] <Laney> slangasek: [Wed May  9 16:06:23 2018] Out of memory: Kill process 1408 (beam) score 215 or sacrifice child
[16:37] <Laney> I thought the first time that it was because we'd filled the disk with old kernels, but clearly not; the second time I identified the OOM.
[16:37]  * slangasek nods
[16:38] <slangasek> maybe it's worth consulting either server team or IS; they may have experience fighting with rabbit
[16:43] <Laney> yeah, but I was trying to palm it off to someone else :P
[16:44] <Laney> we did get this:
[16:44] <Laney> Start-Date: 2018-02-15  06:05:45
[16:44] <Laney> Commandline: /usr/bin/unattended-upgrade
[16:44] <Laney> Upgrade: erlang-public-key:amd64 (1:18.3-dfsg-1ubuntu3, 1:18.3-dfsg-1ubuntu3.1), [a bunch of other erlang stuff]
[17:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-jsonld [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0+dfsg-1] (no packageset)
[17:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-loo [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[17:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-django-rest-hooks [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.5.0-1] (no packageset)
[17:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-django-rest-hooks [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [1.5.0-1]
[17:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-loo [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0.0-1]
[17:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-jsonld [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0+dfsg-1]
[18:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-samr [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0-1]
[18:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-samr [armhf] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0-1]
[18:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-samr [s390x] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0-1]
[18:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-samr [arm64] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0-1]
[18:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-samr [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed) [2.0-1]
[19:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ebtables (artful-proposed/main) [<IP_ADDRESS>-3.5ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => <IP_ADDRESS>-3.5ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
[19:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ebtables (bionic-proposed/main) [<IP_ADDRESS>-3.5ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => <IP_ADDRESS>-3.5ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
[19:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ebtables (trusty-proposed/main) [<IP_ADDRESS>-3ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => <IP_ADDRESS>-3ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
[19:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ebtables (xenial-proposed/main) [<IP_ADDRESS>-3.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => <IP_ADDRESS>-3.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-server)
[19:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python-pylxd (artful-proposed/main) [2.2.4-0ubuntu1 => 2.2.6-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-server)
[19:59] <tsimonq2> 7
[20:01] <krytarik> :-8
[20:01] <wxl> ::--9
[20:09] <tsimonq2> :::---10
[20:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: synfig [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.2.1-0.1] (ubuntustudio)
[20:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: synfig [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.2.1-0.1] (ubuntustudio)
[21:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: synfig [i386] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.2.1-0.1] (ubuntustudio)
[21:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: synfig [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.2.1-0.1] (ubuntustudio)
[21:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: synfig [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.2.1-0.1] (ubuntustudio)
[23:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgctp [s390x] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-3] (no packageset)
[23:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgctp [i386] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-3] (no packageset)
[23:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgctp [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-3] (no packageset)
[23:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgctp [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-3] (no packageset)
[23:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgctp [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-3] (no packageset)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgctp [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.0.0-3] (no packageset)


[16:33] <magicaltrout>  so
[16:33] <magicaltrout> the juju gui
[16:33] <magicaltrout> tells me 2 charms are blocked
[16:33] <magicaltrout> juju status tells me all is green
[16:33] <magicaltrout> on jaas
[16:34] <magicaltrout> who broke it?
[16:34] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: hmm, reload the browser? maybe something got missed in the websocket coms?
[16:34] <magicaltrout> did that
[16:34] <magicaltrout> went back to the control page went back to the model
[16:34] <magicaltrout> etc
[16:36] <zeestrat> Hey rick_h_, did you ever manage to scrounge together any of the backend folks regarding CI and the charm store?
[16:39] <rick_h_> zeestrat: yes, sorry. one sec
[16:40] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: so where's it say it's blocked? In the inspector floaty box thing on the left?
[16:41] <rick_h_> zeestrat: so, we were at a sprint and we had some sessions on it and so the team's working on changes to enable what has been called "agents" that we've used for communication between microservices but allowing users to create and manage agents themselves
[16:41] <rick_h_> zeestrat: so that's ongoing work from the sprint the teams doing and some of the terms might change up as we move from an internal details to a feature for all users
[16:41] <rick_h_> zeestrat: when we've got something test-able you can be sure I'll reach out and show off to folks in a juju show/blog post about using it
[16:45] <magicaltrout> rick_h_: https://imagebin.ca/v/3vetcUjfVsrQ
[16:46] <magicaltrout> https://imagebin.ca/v/3vettfOo8Psf
[16:46] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: bugging hatch (who's not in here that punk) to see if he knows anything to check there.
[16:47] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: sounds like a buggy bug, but not sure how it got into that state
[16:49] <magicaltrout> thanks rick_h_
[16:50] <rick_h_> gotta love it "did he reload" yea...we got that
[16:50] <zeestrat> rick_h_: Thanks. That sounds good. Please don't hesitate to ask if they would like some direct feedback on use cases before things land.
[16:50] <rick_h_> zeestrat: so the goal is going to be to expose the current stuff as a form of unblocking with a path forward that's cleaner I think.
[16:50] <rick_h_> zeestrat: so there will be some room for testing stuff out and then refining
[16:50] <rick_h_> zeestrat: otherwise we're starting from scratch which will take longer
[16:51] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: so he's going to check something and get back in a bit. Are the images ok to go into a bug?
[16:52] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: though I think he's going to ask for the actual wss coms to see if it's juju lying or us
[16:52] <magicaltrout> yeah i'm just trying to finish off the jaas bundles so nothing top secret in there
[16:52] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: ok
[16:52] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: do you know how to view the web socket messages in chrome?
[16:54] <magicaltrout> hmm
[16:54] <magicaltrout> it seems to have sync'd up rick_h_
[16:55] <magicaltrout> cause i refreshed for the websocket stuff
[16:55] <magicaltrout> and not it all green
[16:55] <magicaltrout> not much to show any more =/
[16:55] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: not/now?
[16:55] <magicaltrout> er
[16:55] <magicaltrout> yeah
[16:55] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: hmm, yea my bet is that the websocket that updated the status  got missed/dropped somehow
[16:55] <magicaltrout> fair enough
[16:55] <magicaltrout> other random question
[16:55] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: and that a fresh stack with the current status cleared up the confusion
[16:56] <magicaltrout> is it just me who feels the import export icons and the wrong way around? :)
[16:56] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: lol, issue filed. I always have to double check. I'll have to bug the design folks again as it's been a while
[16:57] <rick_h_> magicaltrout: at one point they were looking at more clear images to use
[17:02] <zeestrat> rick_h_: Gotcha. Looking forward to it. Thanks again!
[21:03] <bdx> cory_fu, reactive-peeps: https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/issues/new
[21:03] <bdx> GEHHHH
[21:03] <bdx> https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/issues/166
[21:03] <cory_fu> :)
[21:04] <cory_fu> bdx: Can you not use venv?  And does it fail if you do?
[21:05] <bdx> yeah, not using venv
[21:05] <bdx> it seems to fail in both situations
[21:06] <cory_fu> bdx: I feel like I ran into this before and found some workaround
[21:06] <cory_fu> But I don't recall what it was
[21:07] <cory_fu> bdx: Can you try adding setuptools_scm to the start of the wheelhouse.txt in a copy of layer:basic?
[21:07] <bdx> yes
[21:09] <cory_fu> bdx: Is this failing during build or during deploy?
[21:09] <bdx> cory_fu: deploy
[21:11] <cory_fu> bdx: From this comment https://github.com/pypa/pypi-legacy/issues/322#issuecomment-291733676 it sounds like we need to bump the pip version in layer:basic's wheelhouse.txt: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/blob/master/wheelhouse.txt#L1
[21:12] <bdx> cory_fu: nice find!
[21:12] <cory_fu> bdx: Would you mind testing that and submitting a PR if it works?
[21:12] <cory_fu> I'm in the middle of something else
[21:12] <bdx> np
[21:13] <cory_fu> Thanks!
[21:14] <bdx> cury_fu: with your workaround https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DG7PC9DGHj/
[21:14] <bdx> looks like its still failling down the line
[21:15] <bdx> I'll play with upgrading pip now
[21:32] <bdx> updating to pip>=9.0.2 still gives the same error
[21:33] <bdx> when I build the charm its using pip-10.0.0.dev0-py3.5.egg
[21:33] <bdx> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pYDyCdtfFg/
[21:34] <bdx> I'm guessing I need to find a way to get that version of pip into the wheelhouse of layer-basic then
[21:37] <bdx> that pip looks like it ships with the snap https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZdcYwJ2Yry/
[21:38] <bdx> hmmmm
[21:39] <bdx> there is some jiggery going on here
[21:39] <bdx> cory_fu: what have you gotten me into :)
[21:40] <cory_fu> lol
[21:42] <cory_fu> bdx: Have you tried specifying pip==10.0.0dev0 explicitly?  I'm not sure if that will allow dev versions or if you have to get charm-build to use --pre when building the charm
[21:44] <bdx> no, neither
[21:44] <cory_fu> bdx: Though, I don't understand why it's still failing with 9.x
[21:45] <bdx> I don't see that version as a release of pip, or a branch, or anything about it in the pip repo ... I'll try what you've suggested
[21:47] <cory_fu> bdx: I suspect that using pip==10.0.0dev0 won't work, anyway.  I wonder if we need an explicit `pip install setuptools_scm` in layer:basic just prior to it trying to install the wheelhouse.
[21:47] <cory_fu> I swear I remember hitting this before and having some sort of work-around
[21:47] <bdx> yeah it barfed on the version https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8xP92Q87bv/
[21:48] <bdx> cory_fu: do you know how, and or why 10.0.0dev0 is used?
[21:49] <cory_fu> bdx: Yeah, it's used because of https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/blob/master/charmtools/build/tactics.py#L819-L821
[21:50] <cory_fu> bdx: Which points to https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/master/news/4320.bugfix
[21:50] <cory_fu> Which is something we specifically had to fix for the snap
[21:50] <cory_fu> Wait, we didn't fix that, someone else had first, that's right
[21:51] <cory_fu> Anyway, it was something we hit in the snap
[21:54] <bdx> ok
[21:56] <bdx> I'm wondering if I use non-snap version if I would still hit this .... testing
[22:09] <bdx> fails the same no matter what version of charm I build with ... don't think thats the issue
[22:09] <bdx> cory_fu: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7hNPqVvmQc/ - could this be the root of this evil?
[22:10] <cory_fu> bdx: It could be but you said it happened even when using a venv
[22:10] <bdx> totally, doesnt the venv get system packages?
[22:11] <bdx> oooh, thats another option possibly
[22:12] <cory_fu> bdx: Yeah, there's a separate option for include_system_packages which defaults to false
[22:12] <cory_fu> bdx: Can I ask why you can't use a venv?  It's a better idea in general
[22:12] <bdx> cory_fu: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/blob/master/layer.yaml#L14
[22:13] <cory_fu> bdx: Oh, yes, I'm dumb.  I forgot we went with true by default to make it more backwards compatible
[22:13] <bdx> cory_fu: I have cron jobs that the charm sets up that need to run at the system level
[22:14] <cory_fu> Try changing that to false and use_venv to true and see if it helps
[22:14] <cory_fu> bdx: Just run them with charm-env
[22:14] <bdx> oh I can use that in any python file?
[22:14] <cory_fu> #!/usr/local/sbin/charm-env python
[22:14] <bdx> the shebang?
[22:14] <cory_fu> Yep
[22:14] <bdx> oh saaweeeet!
[22:15] <cory_fu> bdx: Hrm.  I just realized, though, that if it doesn't have the hook context clues, it will have to guess on the charm path.  It will be fine if there is only one principle, and if your charm isn't a subordinate, but I might need to add a way to specify which charm, to be more explicit
[22:16] <bdx> ahh totally, its a principle
[22:16] <bdx> good to keep in mind though
[22:17] <cory_fu> Ok, so as long as you're not hulk-smashing charms together, it'll be fine.  And I'll add an option to disambiguate
[22:17] <bdx> ok sweet
[22:30] <bdx> cory_fu: I still got the error after changing include_system_packages to false and use_venv to true, I'm trying another deploy with setuptools specified in my wheelhouse.txt
[22:30] <cory_fu> bdx: Pretty sure that specifying it in wheelhouse.txt will be too late.  I think it has to be an explicit call to pip in layer:basic just before the wheelhouse install
[22:31] <bdx> ahh ok
[22:31] <cory_fu> i.e., right before this line: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/blob/master/lib/charms/layer/basic.py#L81
[22:31] <cory_fu> Actually, no.  Before line 85
[22:31] <cory_fu> https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/blob/master/lib/charms/layer/basic.py#L85
[22:58] <cory_fu> bdx: I have to head out for the evening.  Good luck, and let me know if you figure anything out
[23:01] <bdx> will do


[00:07] <roaksoax> Daviey: stil around?
[00:11]  * roaksoax dinner
[03:12] <robbiew> RoAkSoAx: bingo!...put in the hostname for "User ID" and worked like magic ;)
[08:24] <Daviey> roaksoax: hey
[10:44] <javor> Hi. I trying to install MAAS onto Virtualbox. I did everything what i should (i guess) but doing juju bootstrap just show me error 409. Anybody has it installed and its works good (onto virtualbox)?
[13:10] <roaksoax> Daviey: checking
[13:39] <roaksoax> rvba: howdy!! I have the power stuff I just haven't proposed a branch yet as I wanna test it first with real ipmi cards, even though, robbiew confirmed it worked
[13:40] <rvba> roaksoax: that's great news!
[13:42] <roaksoax> rvba: what's the democeleryconfig.py for?
[13:42] <rvba> roaksoax: the celery config used in dev mode.
[13:43] <rvba> i.e., when running MAAS directly from the tree.
[13:43] <roaksoax> rvba: and is services/celeryd/run also par of dev mode?
[13:43] <rvba> Yes.
[13:43] <roaksoax> ok, just checking before I package something up :)
[13:43] <rvba> That's how we start the services in dev mode, that uses 'supervise'.
[13:44] <roaksoax> rvba: oh btw.. I wanted to ask you, how can I effectively determine/check/test that the templates are being rendered correctly. Where can I see a similar output of passing -x to shell
[13:44] <rvba> roaksoax: it's only interesting for you (as far as packaging is concerned) as an example about how we start the services in a dev environment.
[13:48] <rvba> roaksoax: I assume you want to test the new power templates... then I think you should add tests in there ./src/provisioningserver/power/tests/test_poweraction.py
[13:49] <roaksoax> rvba: yes want to test them, but want to see the output of the rendering
[13:49] <rvba> roaksoax: have a look at the last tests in this file.
[13:49] <rvba> roaksoax: test_virsh_checks_vm_state
[13:50] <roaksoax> rvba: right, but is there no way to actually see how it is being rendered?
[13:51] <roaksoax> rvba: becuase the error messages received are not helpful at all
[13:51] <rvba> roaksoax: action = PowerAction(POWER_TYPE.VIRSH) / script = action.render_template(...)
[13:51] <rvba> roaksoax: ^ isn't what you're looking for?
[13:51] <roaksoax> rvba:that's the same output being placed on the logs, isn't it?
[13:52] <roaksoax> on celery.log when something fails
[13:52] <rvba> I /think/ you see the full stacktrace in celery.log when something fails.
[13:53] <roaksoax> rvba: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1086195/
[13:54] <roaksoax> rvba: you see a stack strace but you don't see rendered output or failure
[13:54] <roaksoax> rvba: what I want to see is if the variables have been rendered correctly and things like that
[13:54] <roaksoax> rvba: similar to placing -x on a shell script
[13:55] <roaksoax> either way, the template is shell and we should eb able to see how it gets rendered right?
[13:56] <rvba> roaksoax: that error means we had an error running the generated script.  Thee rendering went fine, otherwise you would have gotten a perfectly clear error about the missing variable.
[13:56] <rvba> s/Thee/The/
[13:57] <roaksoax> rvba: yes, but while the rendering might not have had any errors, I don't know whether the variables ended up with a value, and then passed empty values to the command, which made it fail
[13:57] <roaksoax> rvba: so the command might have failed because it had empty arguments
[13:57] <roaksoax> rvba: thta's what I wanna test
[13:57] <rvba> roaksoax: fair enough.
[13:57] <rvba> roaksoax: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1086199/
[13:57] <rvba> roaksoax: that's the code that generate this error... there is a TODO there :)
[13:58] <roaksoax> yeah
[13:58] <rvba> roaksoax: I could add the generated script in the error log.
[13:58] <roaksoax> rvba: but anyways, regardless of that being in place in tehe code, isn't there a manual way to test it?
[14:00] <rvba> roaksoax: you can manually do this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1086200/ to see the rendered script in the error log
[14:00] <roaksoax> rvba: more than just the rendered script, isn't it possible to see the output of it as if it was passed the "-x" (cause it is a shell script at the end of the day_
[14:01] <roaksoax> rvba: cool, Ill try that
[14:01] <rvba> roaksoax: what does "-x" do exactly?
[14:02] <rvba> (I think I asked that question before but I don't remember the answer...)
[14:04] <rvba> roaksoax: maybe I forgot to mention that this is a change to run_shell in ./src/provisioningserver/power/poweraction.py.
[14:04] <rvba> roaksoax: also, in that method, 'subprocess.Popen' is what calls the script, you could probably add "-x" in there.
[14:07] <roaksoax> rvba: ok cool. I'lll look into that
[14:10] <roaksoax> rvba: btw.. does this make sense to you? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1086214/
[14:12] <roaksoax> rvba: since those are UI changes mostly, I just wanna make sure it makes sense
[14:12] <rvba> roaksoax: you're also changing the parameters for ipmi_lan.
[14:13] <roaksoax> rvba: yeah
[14:13] <roaksoax> that's why I said mostly :)
[14:13] <rvba> roaksoax: but yeah, the UI changes make sense.
[14:13] <rvba> roaksoax: I'm trying to find where I took the list of the parameters from.
[14:14] <roaksoax> rvba: from cobbler: /usr/bin/ipmitool -H "$power_address" -U "$power_user" -P "$power_pass" power "$power_mode"
[14:14] <rvba> roaksoax: right, so, did I got it wrong for ipmi_lan ?
[14:14] <roaksoax> rvba: for for ipmilan you simply add -I lan
[14:16] <rvba> roaksoax: anyway, I'll trust you on this one :).
[14:22] <roaksoax> rvba: hehe :)
[14:35] <czajkowski> Daviey: I have 2  server questions that need to be answered, can you recommend someone on the server team who could help out please?
[14:35] <roaksoax> czajkowski: what are the questions
[14:36] <czajkowski> roaksoax: http://askubuntu.com/questions/160198/openstack-dashboard-access-after-installing-w-maas  and http://askubuntu.com/questions/157717/can-i-provision-a-maas-node-with-an-arbitrary-install-image
[14:37] <roaksoax> czajkowski: so 1. goes for adam_g
[14:37] <roaksoax> adam_g: http://askubuntu.com/questions/160198/openstack-dashboard-access-after-installing-w-maas
[14:38] <roaksoax> rvba: support for quantal in MAAS is not yet ready right?
[14:38] <rvba> roaksoax: no, right now, precise is hardcoded.
[14:38] <roaksoax> rvba: ok
[14:44] <roaksoax> allenap: I tested the ssh keys with one of the latest maas revs and everything works as expected
[14:45] <roaksoax> allenap: 1. after enlist before commissioning. 2. after clicking on commissioning but before it actually commissions. 3. afgter commissioning, before deploying (After having it allocated to admin)
[14:45] <roaksoax> allenap: so the issue might be related to the fact that a machine was never allocated to the admin or a user before it was deployed?
[14:50] <allenap> roaksoax: I'm not sure that's possible... or I think it should not be. rvba?
[14:51] <roaksoax> allenap: maybe they started the machine when in "Ready" state, without clicking manually on MAAS to start a node maybe?
[14:52] <allenap> roaksoax: Possibly. Cobbler could well be in the right state to just install the machine.
[14:53] <roaksoax> yep
[14:53] <roaksoax> that's what I'm thinking
[14:53] <rvba> allenap: the 'acquire' step makes the node the property of the user requesting a node for deployment.
[14:54] <rvba> So it's not possible for a node to be deployed without having an owner.
[14:57] <czajkowski> roaksoax: THANKS
[14:57] <czajkowski> damn caps sorry.
[14:58] <roaksoax> rvba: right, but after the node is ready, it has no owner, however if you click on "Start Node" it allocates it to the user
[15:03] <roaksoax> rvba: so maybe users were manually turning on nodes before they were manually allocated with "Start Node" on the WebUI
[15:03] <roaksoax> ending with no keys
[15:04] <rvba> roaksoax: that seems possible indeed.  But the node were definitely powered up outside of MAAS control.
[15:04] <rvba> nodes*
[15:04] <allenap> We might be able to address that by ensuring that netboot_enabled is off when the node is in the ready pool.
[15:04] <roaksoax> indeed
[15:05] <allenap> However, even that's not 100%. A node that was once allocated and returned to the pool is not wiped, so turning netboot off just means it'll boot into the previous OS.
[15:05]  * allenap thinks we *really* ought to wipe machines that are deallocated.
[15:07] <roaksoax> allenap: that might not be a good idea
[15:07] <roaksoax> you might one to deallocate a machine from the pool
[15:07] <roaksoax> allenap: but keep everything installed for some reason
[15:08] <roaksoax> allenap: either way, from deallocation back to ready, shouldn;t be a problem, cause once is allocated again, you would wipe the intsllation
[15:08] <roaksoax> allenap: rvba btw.. there's no way to get an allocated node back to the pool from the WebUI right?
[15:09] <allenap> roaksoax: I'm thinking also about data security. It may be a requirement that the disks are wiped, though I guess that's another story.
[15:10] <roaksoax> yeah
[15:11] <roaksoax> allenap: so if in the WEbUI i click on "Start Node", I'm only presented with a  "Delete" button, right? SO that means there's no way to bring it back to the pool
[15:11] <roaksoax> such as "Stop Node"
[15:11] <roaksoax> that powers it off and allocates it back to the pool
[15:12] <allenap> roaksoax: Really? Gulp.
[15:17] <roaksoax> allenap: last I check it was like that
[15:17] <roaksoax> anyway, I'll finish up with releasing a new maas and recheck
[15:22] <allenap> rvba: Do you know if we did any work on node deallocation?
[15:23] <rvba> allenap: I don't think we did.
[15:52] <roaksoax> allenap: there's no config for python-txtftp yet right?
[15:55] <roaksoax> btw there's a broken symlink on trunk, in etc/ named -> ../run/named
[15:56] <rvba> roaksoax: that's normal, ../run/named gets populated when the conf is created.
[15:57] <roaksoax> rvba: ok, but that means shipping a broken link
[15:57] <roaksoax> rvba: that should be clean IMHO
[15:57] <rvba> roaksoax: 'make services/dns/@run' will populate it for instance.
[15:57] <roaksoax> rvba: right, but that should be created on make rather than shipping a broken link on trunk... you shouldn't be shipping a link on trunk
[15:57] <allenap> roaksoax: Yes, etc/pserv.yaml. It should Just Work for now, though not on the right port I think.
[15:58] <rvba> roaksoax: why do you want to ship it?  I thought you'd ship only so selected files from etc/ ?
[15:58] <rvba> s/so/some/
[15:58] <roaksoax> allenap: right but that's started by pserv, not by twistd tftp :)
[15:58] <roaksoax> rvba: it still in the source
[15:58] <roaksoax> rvba: i ship selected files from binary while it is still in the source
[15:59] <allenap> roaksoax: Yes, don't run twistd tftp :)
[15:59] <roaksoax> allenap: ok then :)
[15:59] <allenap> roaksoax: It's okay for it to be there, just don't arrange for it to start by default or anything.
[15:59] <roaksoax> allenap: so I'll just install it then in PYTHONPATH
[16:00] <allenap> roaksoax: Yeah, that's all we need.
[16:00] <roaksoax> allenap: was wondering to see whether I ship add an upstart job or not
[16:01] <allenap> roaksoax: No, sorry about that. I can sense you were excited at the prospect ;)
[16:01] <rvba> roaksoax: I can create that link when running make indeed.  But why exactly do you think a broken link is that bad?
[16:01] <roaksoax> allenap: hehe i just wanna get it over with :)
[16:02] <roaksoax> rvba: AFAIK it is a bad idea to ship broken links on source tarballs
[16:03] <roaksoax> rvba: i'm fine shipping it, I just think it would be better to have it generated and cleaned on make
[16:06] <rvba> roaksoax: I definitely can do that (but I'd be happy to learn why it's so bad to ship broken links ;) ).
[16:06] <rvba> Apart from the fact that the word 'broken' sounds bad in itself :).
[16:12] <roaksoax> rvba: IMHO becuase it is prone to failure when it comes to builds. On the other hand, It creates a few issues wth tar I think
[16:12] <roaksoax> when setting mtime or mode
[16:12] <rvba> roaksoax: fair enough, I'll do it ;).
[16:13] <rvba> roaksoax: fwiw that link is only there because we wanted to make clear that the config was generated.
[16:14] <rvba> We could have generated the config directly in /etc/named but that would have been confusing.
[16:14] <rvba> err etc/named
[16:14] <roaksoax> rvba: right but you could add a message header saying its generated :)
[16:14] <roaksoax> cause either way, that doesn't show on bzr, does it?
[16:15] <rvba> roaksoax: run/* is ignored by bzr.  The link was committed in bzr.
[16:16] <roaksoax> rvba: right, so you could also ignore etc/named and not commit it
[16:16] <rvba> roaksoax: sure, but that would be a little bit weird.
[16:18] <roaksoax> rvba: might be indeed...  but that file gets created and removed on distclean
[16:18] <roaksoax> so it doesn't really belong to the branch
[16:18] <roaksoax> IMHO
[16:18] <rvba> True, it's just a bit confusing to have it in etc/named.  But I'll consider that.
[16:18] <rvba> I mean I'll consider generating the config in etc/named directly.
[16:19] <roaksoax> rvba: alright! I'm happy with whichever makes your life easier, though shipping the symlink is also weird for me!
[16:19] <roaksoax> rvba: and I'm sure the MIR team would be "WTH is there a broken symlink in the code"
[16:20] <rvba> roaksoax: all right :)
[16:20] <roaksoax> :)
[16:20] <roaksoax> rvba: thanks though!
[17:00] <roaksoax> allenap: there seems to be an error in pserv
[17:00] <roaksoax> after adding the config option for tftp
[17:02] <roaksoax> allenap: yep, pserv doesn't start
[17:03] <allenap> Oh rats.
[17:05] <allenap> roaksoax: Can you grab the logs?
[17:05] <roaksoax> allenap: there's no pserv log
[17:06] <allenap> <surprised smiley>
[17:06] <allenap> roaksoax: Ah, is this with the new python-tx-tftp package?
[17:07] <roaksoax> allenap: yes
[17:07] <roaksoax> allenap: no longer showed in: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1086510/
[17:08] <roaksoax> allenap: but the file is installed as twisted pluging
[17:08] <allenap> roaksoax: Okay, I forgot about this. The upstream, shylent, has reviewed most of my recent changes (favourably) but has not pulled them into his branch. I'll prod him about it.
[17:08] <roaksoax> allenap: can you give me a patch
[17:08] <allenap> Sure.
[17:09] <allenap> roaksoax: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1086512/
[17:13] <roaksoax> allenap: /usr/bin/twistd: Unknown command: maas-pserv
[17:16] <roaksoax> allenap: is twisted not recognizing maas-pserv installed/present/available when it is installed in the right place
[17:18] <allenap> roaksoax: I changed the pserv plugin code so that it wouldn't spew errors when it failed to initialise. It probably can't import something from python-tx-tftp and is breaking. When that patch is in place it /ought/ to work again.
[17:18] <roaksoax> allenap: is not
[17:19] <roaksoax> allenap: i patched it in /usr/share/pyshared/tftp/
[17:19] <allenap> roaksoax: Okay, you could try adding a `raise` to the maas-pserv twisted plugin, so that the error is not suppressed.
[17:20] <allenap> roaksoax: Unfortunately I have to go now :-/ Good luck in the meantime. Email the list if this is still not working at your EOD and we'll (red squad) take a look.
[17:48] <roaksoax> rvba: does provisioning server and stuff add /usr/share/maas as part of the path?
[17:48] <roaksoax> rvba: i'm having a pserv error due to apparently not being able to import
[17:50] <roaksoax> rvba: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1086581/


[09:07] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Ice Cream Sandwich Day! :-D
[14:12] <dobey> JamesTait: ice cream sandwich day? i didn't realize it was the last day of UDS in orlando already
[14:35] <JamesTait> dobey, that seems like a *very* long time ago!
[14:42] <dobey> yeah. though maybe there are ice cream sandwiches in IoM today
[23:40] <c^^c^^> Is there 2 form factor auth like dropbox? I don't see it anywhere in settings


[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[09:09]  * jpds wonders who LocutusOfBorg is.
[09:24] <highvoltage> He's actually captain Picard, but assimilated.
[09:36] <sladen> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco
[09:38] <jpds> Right, but no IRC nick.


[03:44] <ajmitch> highvoltage: finally got around to replying on-list :)
[04:02] <highvoltage> ajmitch: ah, nice feedback, thanks
[04:04] <ajmitch> I should actually have some free time tonight to add the metadata back into the askubunt-lens & beg for votes again
[04:05]  * ajmitch was going to do it last night, but got caught up helping a friend with his compsci study :)
[04:06] <highvoltage> oh I could write the book on "was going to do that last night, but..."
[04:06] <ajmitch> I have this funny feeling that the majority of the ARB are a little busy right now:)
[04:06] <ajmitch> hah
[04:07] <ajmitch> yeah I got a phone call last night asking for study help, he had his exam today
[04:09] <ajmitch> how's edubuntu stuff coming along? :)
[04:10] <highvoltage> ajmitch: it's going ok
[04:10] <highvoltage> where "ok" means "quite well actually"
[04:10] <ajmitch> great
[04:10] <highvoltage> ajmitch: we finally have our zatabs ordered. I need to poke the zentyal guys to find out how the schooltool integration is going
[04:10] <ajmitch> at least someone's getting things done, I've still got a few works items to tackle :)
[04:10] <ajmitch> do you know how the ubuntu on zatab work is going?
[04:11] <highvoltage> ajmitch: we have some good package selection updates so far, still need to add a mindmapping tool, probably going with vym since all the other nice ones are in java. kubuntu got 'pairs' in the archives today so we need to add that to seeds too.
[04:12] <highvoltage> ajmitch: it's been a while since I spoke to Darkwing, I haven't seen him on IRC recently. last I heard it booted Ubuntu fine but with a black screen
[04:12] <highvoltage> ajmitch: I wouldn't be surprised if that's been fixed by now
[04:12] <highvoltage> ajmitch: you run android on yours?
[04:12] <ajmitch> yeah I've got to find out how to get an image onto the microsd & get ubuntu booting
[04:12] <ajmitch> still android on it, yes
[04:12] <ajmitch> it's a little slow at times
[04:13] <ajmitch> back in a few
[06:53] <dholbach> good morning
[06:55] <dholbach> ajmitch, thanks for the review
[06:56] <dholbach> ajmitch, I was quite sure that something still was broken about it, so I'll have another look :)
[06:56] <ajmitch> heh ok :)
[07:01] <dholbach> ajmitch, and thanks for the feedback on the apps-brancher bug reports
[07:02] <ajmitch> sorry I didn't file that bug that I mentioned, I was using my tablet at the time :)
[07:03] <dholbach> ah yes :)
[07:03] <dholbach> no worries
[07:03] <ajmitch> with all the branches being writable by the contributors team, we may want to think about who we let join
[07:03] <ajmitch> at the moment the only admin is dpm, I think
[07:04] <ajmitch> who shows up as soon as I mention him...
[07:05] <dholbach> ajmitch, the apps-brancher is not very clever about branches, right now it just pushes them regardless of what's in there - I saw the branches as a basis to start working on
[07:05] <dholbach> so I don't have to worry about merging things back, auto-accepting merge proposals, etc etc
[07:06] <ajmitch> dholbach: the bug about repacking .deb packages might be useful for languages like python, but we'd definitely ask for source for anything compiled
[07:06] <dholbach> ajmitch, totally
[07:06] <dholbach> ajmitch, that's why I had a look at the dotdeb backend
[07:06] <dholbach> but it seems like it still needs a bit of work
[07:06] <dpm> good morning all
[07:07] <dholbach> I looked into packaging it, so we can install it on holba.ch, but something didn't work and I had to move on to other things
[07:07] <dholbach> also there's a PDF pkgme backend which might be nice to have
[07:07] <ajmitch> .jar files would always be compiled bytecode afaik, so I think you won't need to spend effort on importing those for open source apps
[07:07] <dholbach> yes, that makes sense
[07:07] <dholbach> what I love is that we exercise all parts of the infrastructure, so that should help fixing bugs
[07:07] <ajmitch> PDFs, we currently don't handle pure-content submissions
[07:08] <dholbach> ah, good to know
[07:08] <ajmitch> the ARB (currently) has a fairly limited set of apps to approve
[07:09] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines has the summary we agreed on at the top
[07:10]  * ajmitch thinks most of the problems are people finding time to work on reviewing
[07:10] <ajmitch> thanks for the quick summary of low-hanging fruit there
[07:11] <dholbach> cool, I'm glad it's useful
[07:11] <dholbach> I'll get back to work on the vm lens in a bit
[07:11]  * ajmitch isn't entirely sure of what limitations you'd have on myapps, I don't think there are many
[07:12] <ajmitch> as someone in the contributors team, about the only thing you wouldn't be able to do is push to the PPA
[07:12] <dholbach> and that's totally fine
[07:12] <dholbach> I still feel I have to learn the ropes :)
[07:12] <ajmitch> right, just something to keep in mind for people wanting to help out, I think :)
[07:15]  * ajmitch needs to take a week off work to catch up with everything :)
[07:16] <dholbach> ajmitch, I hope we can invite some folks into helping out
[07:17] <dholbach> ajmitch, also dpm is preparing a few "app dev days" next week - maybe it'd be worth having a session about how to help the ARB
[07:17] <dholbach> or demo'ing how the average app is /opt-ified
[07:17] <ajmitch> possibly useful
[07:26] <dholbach> reboot, brb
[09:45] <dholbach> ajmitch, would you have any more use-cases for https://bugs.launchpad.net/pkgme/+bug/1013083?
[09:47] <ajmitch> dholbach: version for debian/changelog can be pulled from a few places
[09:48] <dholbach> ah yes
[09:48]  * ajmitch can't think of anything else right now
[09:48] <ajmitch> I'm sure there'll be other things that can be deduced
[09:49] <dholbach> yes, I think so too
[09:49] <dholbach> I just had a quick call with jml about the bug
[09:49] <dholbach> and I'll try to put together a hack which can deal with this maybe :)
[09:49] <ajmitch> like detecting the existence of test suites, but I think dh handles that pretty well at the moment
[09:50] <dholbach> the discussion came up in https://bugs.launchpad.net/pkgme/+bug/1004505
[09:51] <ajmitch> a whole pile of examples there :)
[09:51] <dholbach> they're all knitted the same way IIRC
[09:52] <dholbach> I think this would help turn pkgme into a swiss-army knife for packaging
[09:52] <dholbach> which would be nice
[09:52] <dholbach> forget about running dh-make, use pkgme instead :-D
[09:52] <ajmitch> people will still come up with weird & wonderful ways to structure their upstream source
[09:52] <dholbach> and then we'll improve pkgme :)
[10:08] <ajmitch> arghl dput
[10:09]  * ajmitch really has to change the default target for when arguments are passed in the wrong order
[10:26]  * ajmitch sees a 72MB submission that's most likely going to have to be rejected
[10:44] <ajmitch> dholbach: I think with your imported branches, we need a way of adding reviewer-only comments on the myapps submissions so that I can hit the queue & look at a branch linked from a comment there
[10:45] <dholbach> ajmitch, yeah, that'd be nice
[10:45] <dholbach> can you add a comment?
[10:45] <dholbach> maybe we can find a clever regex before we can talk the myapps into providing a minimal api :)
[10:45] <ajmitch> yeah
[10:45] <ajmitch> think about what we need before we file too many bug reports :)
[10:47] <dholbach> and if we hack it together so it works and we can use it for a while and see how it works for us, it'll be easier to convince the myApps team :)
[10:51] <ajmitch> ok, I've asked for info for a few apps that had .deb submissions & sent out a nag email for votes
[10:53] <ajmitch> dholbach: do you have the appropriate superpowers to invite me to the ubuntu organisation on trello?
[10:58]  * ajmitch wonders how we should handle the diversity of (human) languages that we seem to be getting in apps :)
[12:47] <dholbach> ajmitch, awesome
[12:47] <dholbach> let me see if I do
[12:49] <dholbach> ajmitch, no, I don't think I do - but jcastro should
[12:49] <dholbach> maybe dpm too?
[12:54] <dpm> dholbach, what's up? I got disconnected and I can't read the backlog
 dholbach: do you have the appropriate superpowers to invite me to the ubuntu organisation on trello?
[12:55] <dpm> I don't have supercow Trello powers, I'm afraid
[12:59] <dpm> jcastro has
[20:09] <ajmitch> jono: this app showdown is going to put a fair bit of pressure on getting a number of apps reviewed & published if (community) voting doesn't start until they're done
[20:10] <jono> ajmitch, what do you mean?
[20:10] <ajmitch> while it ought to be a lot easier to bash the packages into shape if they're all using quickly, we haven't had many people voting lately
[20:10] <jono> right
[20:11] <ajmitch> I like the contest idea, I just worry that it'll bottleneck on 3 or 4 of us
[20:11] <jono> so dholbach is going to help grow arb-helpers to get people helping with any packaging issues (should be minimal as we require quickly), but yeah, it will require the ARB to be responsive to votes
[20:11] <jono> I am sure we can expedite it fairly quickly though
[20:11] <jono> I think it will be awesome to bring all these new apps in :-)
[20:12] <ajmitch> we'll just have to work hard to clear the current queue as much as possible before then
[20:13]  * ajmitch should really run off to work before he's late :)
[20:13] <ajmitch> I'll be back online in a few
[20:39] <ajmitch> so I guess I probably won't be able to enter the competition? :)