[01:14] <spiv> Moaning.
[01:43] <lifeless> spiv: please try baz now
[01:43] <lifeless> spiv: tell me if its fixed or not
[01:44] <spiv> lifeless: Will do.
[01:57] <spiv> Looks much better.
[01:59] <spiv> 1m 30s for a baz update (from a cold cache) that had to apply 5 patches to build a new revlib entry, and deal with a handful of local changes, on an athlon 750.
[02:00] <spiv> So you figured out why it regressed so much?
[02:01] <spiv> Oh, wow: PANIC: unable to fork for patch
[02:01] <lifeless> I think the thing that was the prime regression was adding arch_abs_path (foo) into an inner loop
[02:01] <lifeless> its a very unoptimised call that.
[02:01] <spiv> I've never gotten that before.
[02:01] <spiv> Sounds plausible.
[02:02] <lifeless> But I also added in stat result caching for the inventories that are used
[02:02] <lifeless> how much ram do you have
[02:02] <lifeless> ?
[02:02] <lifeless> (how old is an athlon 750 ?)
[02:04] <spiv> 384Mb in the athlon, 512Mb on my laptop.
[02:04] <spiv> The PANIC was from my laptop, though.
[02:04] <lifeless> wow
[02:04] <lifeless> I'd bet on a furfy
[02:05] <spiv> It happened just after * reapplying local changes
[02:06] <lifeless> during 'update' ?
[02:06] <spiv> Yeah.
[02:07] <lifeless> thats strange, the resources should have been freed.
[02:07] <spiv> It was 45 revisions worth of launchpad update.
[02:07] <spiv> (and only took 4m, which is much better than a few days ago)
[02:19] <lifeless> can you undo to the old revision, than update again ?
[02:19] <lifeless>  what baz version do you have ?
[02:22] <spiv> Bazaar version 1.3~200504102028
[02:29] <lifeless> is there a newer one available ?
[02:32] <mdke> ooh has launchpad been updated?
[02:33] <lifeless> not in the last few days
[02:33] <lifeless> update coming today
[02:34] <mdke> oh cool
[02:34] <mdke> can't wait
[12:51] <Simira> What's up?: "Bad Gateway
[12:51] <Simira> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
[12:51] <Simira> "
[12:52] <Kinnison> Have you tried shift+reloading?
[12:52] <SteveA> we could do with a "launchpad is down for maintenance" page
[12:52] <mdke> its like that here too
[12:52] <mdke> i thought it was due to the upgrade
[12:53] <Simira> hi Kinnison :) Going to .au soon?
[12:53] <Kinnison> Simira: I'm not going to LCA so not for a week or so :-)
[12:53] <Kinnison> IIRC my flight is on the 22nd
[12:53] <Simira> ok
[12:54] <Simira> I'm not joining this time. But I'll keep an eye on you guys anyhow. Tollef's got a webcam :)
[12:54] <Simira> reserved just for me
[12:55] <Simira> hmm... need to get one set up for my gerbils as well, so I can keep an eye on them while I'm away too
[04:50] <mdke> bah
[04:53] <mdke> have all the improvements been made to launchpad now?
[05:02] <mdke> matt_, go away
[07:27] <carlos> mdke: yes, launchpad should have all changes we talked about last week
[07:27] <mdke> hmm
[07:27] <mdke> i'm not redirected after loggin in
[07:30] <mdke> also clicking on members of a group does not take me to their members page, it just gives me no permissions error message
[07:35] <carlos> mdke: I don't have a problem with the redirection...
[07:36] <mdke> you mean it doesn't bother you, or it redirects?
[07:36] <carlos> mdke: If you try to enter into a page that need validation, you will see the login form and after that you will be back to the page you asked for...
[07:36] <carlos> that's the way it works here...
[07:37] <mdke> try https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntu-l10n-it/+members and clicking on a name
[07:38] <carlos> hmm
[07:38] <carlos> ok, it works here
[07:38] <carlos> but
[07:38] <carlos> I think I know why it's not working for you...
[07:38] <mdke> this is what i get:
[07:38] <carlos> I suppose it's because I'm an admin and that page is only for admins
[07:38] <mdke> yeah
[07:38] <mdke> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
[07:38] <mdke> You are logged in as Matthew East
[07:39] <mdke> if would be cool if that redirected to people/name
[07:39] <carlos> mdke: the link you asked is in that page, but you don't have rights to reach it
[07:39] <mdke> yep
[07:39] <carlos> salgado-lunch: could you ping us when you are back?
[07:39] <Simira> carlos: am I supposed to be redirected after login? And, where do I find the national translation teams in Rosetta? Are there any links?
[07:40] <mdke> carlos, i think it would be cool if https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntu-l10n-it/+members/gulliver666 (me) linked to https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/gulliver666
[07:40] <carlos> Simira: you should be redirected if the login form appear without you selecting it directly
[07:40] <mdke> Simira, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/
[07:40] <carlos> Simira: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntu-translators
[07:40] <Simira> ok
[07:41] <carlos> there you have all the language teams we have at the moment, other option is as mdke says, using the search form
[07:41] <carlos> mdke: I'm not in charge of that part of launchpad, you need to talk with salgado-lunch about it
[07:41] <mdke> cool
[07:41] <mdke> carlos, the other serious issue I have is with rosetta
[07:42] <carlos> tell me
[07:42] <mdke> the language teams exist to check existing translations is that correct?
[07:43] <carlos> yes
[07:43] <mdke> but there is no way to mark translations as checked. The italian team is thinking about using a wiki page to report which translations get checked, or a mailing list (if we can find a host), but these are quite unsatisfactory solutions.
[07:44] <carlos> mdke: we have that in mind already, but we decided to let you use the system now, instead of delay it more until we implement the "reviewed" feature
[07:44] <mdke> yeah thats cool
[07:44] <mdke> so what do you think is the best temporary solution: wiki?
[07:44] <mdke> for marking translations as checked i mean
[07:44] <mdke> yeah i saw that: cool idea
[07:45] <mdke> mind if I reparent it?
[07:45] <carlos> mdke: don't know, the best solution is whatever gives you as a team more flexivility
[07:45] <mdke> carlos, yeah ok
[07:45] <carlos> mdke: I'm doing it, don't worry
[07:45] <mdke> kewl
[07:45] <carlos> but the wiki is sooooo sloooow
[07:45] <mdke> hmm
[07:45] <mdke> its ok here
[07:46] <mdke> but its not entirely user friendly ;)
[07:46] <mdke> the zwiki skin is a bit faster
[07:47] <carlos> ok, moved
[07:47] <carlos> mdke: it took about 2 minutes to rename the page...
[07:47] <mdke> ouch
[07:47] <mdke> just to reparent it?
[07:47] <mdke> sucks
[07:48] <carlos> no, rename it
[07:48] <carlos> the reparent was faster
[07:48] <mdke> even so, not great
[07:50] <mdke> oooh also i remember what i wanted to ask you: has the gpg thing been abandoned? i noticed the CoC interface is not there anymore
[07:51] <mdke> bbl cooking
[07:52] <carlos> mdke: I think it has been delayed because it's not ready yet
[08:10] <salgado> carlos, ping
[08:11] <carlos> salgado: mdke is not able to see the link you added at the team membership page to get the people/$person link of a member
[08:12] <carlos> salgado: because the page with the link is only available to admins of that team or launchpad admins
[08:12] <carlos> mdke: could you talk with salgado about this?
[08:13] <mdke> if you like
[08:13] <mdke> gimme a moment tho
[08:13] <mdke> i'm zipping between kitchen/computer
[08:16] <mdke> salgado, hi
[08:16] <salgado> mdke, carlos, that's right. the link is only on the team's memberhip page of a given person. it's mainly for team administrators to see more information about the members
[08:16] <mdke> i was just thinking it would be good if normal users would be redirected to the people/$personsname
[08:17] <salgado> right now, adding a link on that page were we display all members is problematic, because the whole row is a link
[08:17] <mdke> right
[08:17] <mdke> its not a big deal
[08:18] <mdke> its just a little more time consuming for normal users to collect information about all members


[12:52] <cmaloney> morning
[13:00] <rick_h_> morning
[13:02] <cmaloney> how was the sprint?
[13:02] <cmaloney> or summit or whatever it's called. :)
[13:04] <rick_h_> yea, summit was good
[13:04] <rick_h_> always fun to hang out at stuff like that and talk shop with smart folks
[13:08] <cmaloney> Yeah, that's always a highlight
[13:20] <shakes808> morning
[15:51] <greg-g> just got back from 2 days in SF for our "product and technology 'onsite offsite'", twas good
[16:04] <cmaloney> nice!
[16:13] <Scary_Guy> shakes808 this Saturday
[16:13] <Scary_Guy> fuck, parted again
[17:47] <rick_h_> greg-g: woot


[00:01] <racarr> namespace mgeglm = mir::graphics::egl::mesa?
[00:01] <racarr> I just wanted to share how happy I was to type mgeglm
[00:17] <RAOF> ???
[00:43] <racarr> RAOF: I just think it's a funny combination of letters
[00:43] <racarr> ignore me...
[00:43] <RAOF> No, that just seems like a surprisingly nested namespace.
[00:58] <smspillaz> racarr: hmm, this could get fun
[00:59] <RAOF> smspillaz: What are you up to? :)
[00:59] <smspillaz> namespace compiz::objects::central::keyboard
[00:59] <racarr> I don't get it ;)
[00:59] <RAOF> :P
[01:00] <smspillaz> RAOF: me? mostly eating popcorn
[01:29] <duflu> robert_ancell: We have logs if you're interested :)  https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1109957
[01:31] <robert_ancell> duflu, ta
[01:36] <duflu> Wow, seems Alexandros likes to finish things without any fanfare. This is now DONE(!): https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-glmark2
[01:36] <duflu> Except that we can't get any useful numbers out of it till we fix Mir's eglSwapInterval(0)
[02:32] <robert_ancell> duflu, can you look out for a notification for "TEST BUG" against Mir?
[02:32] <duflu> robert_ancell: Could you please update the subscription to ensure mir-team gets bug comments too?
[02:32] <robert_ancell> duflu, did that before this
[02:32] <robert_ancell> comments?
[02:32] <robert_ancell> I think people should opt-in for comments
[02:33] <duflu> robert_ancell: I disagree. Someone has to answer comments. And if the dev team has not subscribed then that will usually be no one
[02:34] <robert_ancell> no, that's just spamming people. If you want to do that then subscribe yourself. Otherwise people should only subscribe to bugs that are relevant to them
[02:35] <duflu> robert_ancell: Umm, Mir bugs are relevant to Mir developers. More generally developers need a kick in the pants to pay more attention to their own bugs
[02:35] <robert_ancell> duflu, you are automatically subscribed to your own bugs, and you can subscribe people to bugs you think they should look at
[02:36] <duflu> robert_ancell: "own bugs" means bugs you caused, not logged
[02:36] <robert_ancell> duflu, then subscribe them when you read it
[02:36] <robert_ancell> duflu, bugs can easily become a distraction from actual work - the goal is not to empty the bug tracker
[02:37] <duflu> robert_ancell: True, but you can't release anything if you have a pile of High's and Criticals
[02:37] <robert_ancell> you can
[02:37]  * duflu is scared at that prospect
[02:39] <robert_ancell> duflu, it depends who set them to high and critical - we have an open tracker
[02:42] <duflu> robert_ancell: It's not meant to be a matter of opinion. There are clear definitions of the severities here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[02:42] <duflu> Though that's not to say those are followed accurately
[02:44] <robert_ancell> duflu, bingo
[02:53] <smspillaz> robert_ancell: I get the impression that this page is good for determining bug severity if you're a kernel
[02:53] <smspillaz> it would be good to have bug guidelines per-project
[02:53] <duflu> It's hard enough having one standard. I'm not sure we want multiple standards
[02:54] <smspillaz> sure, its just that the examples are not very applicable to some projects
[02:54] <smspillaz> "causes data corruption" <- let me know when that happens in a display server
[02:55] <RAOF> We can *totally* do that.
[02:55] <smspillaz> RAOF: was that a challenge accepted ?
[02:55] <RAOF> We just need to set up the GPU memory maps appropriately :)
[02:55] <smspillaz> RAOF: I think that's fudging with the definition of "data"
[02:56] <duflu> Surely you can mmap some memory to an important file
[02:56] <smspillaz> right, I just didn't think that fell within the usecase of a display server
[02:56] <RAOF> Set the GPU memory maps appropriately so that they overlap with the kernel's VFS cache.
[02:56] <smspillaz> RAOF: oh, heh
[02:56] <duflu> Evil
[02:57] <smspillaz> RAOF: does mir run as root ?
[02:57] <RAOF> I don't think we know.
[02:57] <smspillaz> (its a stupid question, I've not run it in months)
[02:57] <smspillaz> haha
[02:57] <smspillaz> yikes
[02:57] <duflu> smspillaz: Not normally, but it can
[02:57] <RAOF> The system-compositor probably will, but the sessions won't.
[02:57] <smspillaz> you guys are going to have lots of fun
[02:58] <RAOF> Of course!
[03:22] <robert_ancell> duflu, you had a branch that was going to add a mircommon-dev right? What happened to that?
[03:22] <duflu> robert_ancell: It landed. And I see it in the PPA already
[03:22] <robert_ancell> duflu, oh right, I hadn't updated
[03:31] <duflu> robert_ancell: Is it bad for lightdm that mir has no upstart config?
[03:32] <robert_ancell> duflu, mir is started by lightdm so upstart is not involved
[03:32] <duflu> robert_ancell: Fair enough. But there is often a small delay in the socket becoming available. Does lightdm sleep a little before looking for it?
[03:33] <duflu> Or poll for it and eventually time out?
[03:33] <robert_ancell> duflu, yeah, there's a hack currently but we will need the system compositor to notify lightdm when the socket is ready
[03:33] <robert_ancell> poll
[03:33] <duflu> Damn. No easy explanations
[03:34] <duflu> You and your forethought
[03:34] <robert_ancell> the way X does this is using a unix signal. We can easily pick that up, though it's a bit yuck. The cleaner way is to pass a fd to the compositor and have it write to it when ready
[03:34] <duflu> robert_ancell: Signals sound might simpler. Why yuck?
[03:35] <duflu> -might +much
[03:35] <robert_ancell> duflu, because they're kind of hard to handle in the receiver. But we have all the work for X done so we can live with it
[03:35] <robert_ancell> also potentially we want more information than a signal can provide
[03:36] <duflu> I guess a signal necessitates knowing a process ID to send to :(
[03:36] <robert_ancell> duflu, children can emit a signal on themselves and the parent picks it up
[03:37] <RAOF> We want to pass an fd from lightdm to the system-compositor *anyway*; we might as well signal readiness on it.
[06:03] <tvoss> RAOF, ping
[06:03] <RAOF> tvoss: Pong.
[06:04] <tvoss> RAOF, good afternoon :) quick question about hw cursors: do we have a work item for that?
[06:04] <RAOF> Hm. I suspect that we might want a parallel server-side buffer age so we can optimise out sending buffers we know the client has.
[06:05] <RAOF> tvoss: Heh. Yes, someone set alf_ as owning that work item today.
[06:05] <RAOF> client-1303-mir-converged
[06:05] <tvoss> RAOF, cool, we have the first iteration of input mostly landed, and rendering a cursor might prove helpful :)
[06:06] <RAOF> We don't have keyboard input landed at all, right?
[06:06] <tvoss> RAOF, an english keyboard should work :)
[06:07] <tvoss> RAOF, ah, just observing your comments on receive-input-in-client
[06:07] <RAOF> What about https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/receive-input-in-client/+merge/155368
[06:08] <tvoss> RAOF, that's what I was referring to, I thought it had landed yesterday
[06:08] <RAOF> :)
[06:11] <tvoss> RAOF, anyway, once that lands, generic keyboard support is there. Then keymapping is the next topic
[06:11] <RAOF> Cool.
[06:12] <RAOF> daniels will be interested to hear where libkeymap fails to support our needs :)
[06:14] <tvoss> RAOF, I guess not at all :) we just need to take a look at it
[06:14] <tvoss> RAOF, got a link for me?
[06:16] <RAOF> It's libxkbcommon :)
[06:16] <tvoss> RAOF, I'm confused now :)
[06:16] <RAOF> He was just complaining that he mis-named it, and it should really be called libkeymap.
[06:16] <tvoss> RAOF, I guess I'm all in for that
[06:38] <tvoss> mmrazik, I was wondering if there is any documentation on fence_cdu
[06:39] <mmrazik> tvoss: do you have account on magners?
[06:39] <tvoss> mmrazik, not sure :)
[06:39] <mmrazik> tvoss: let me pastebin --help
[06:39] <mmrazik> I don't think there is much more than that. Maybe something on wiki.canonical.com
[06:39] <tvoss> mmrazik, ack
[06:40] <mmrazik> tvoss: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5651494/
[06:40] <mmrazik> tvoss: its a python script so I guess we can modify if need something
[06:41] <tvoss> mmrazik, ack
[06:41] <mmrazik> and I _think_ (didn't check) its using ssh to access the power strips
[06:41] <tvoss> mmrazik, I was thinking about writing a google test fixture for setting up the multi-monitor setup
[06:48] <RAOF> Huh. GTest really does call *0 = 1; to die in this case.
[06:55] <RAOF> Grr. What the hell, gdb?
[06:56] <tvoss> RAOF, what's up?
[06:57] <RAOF> My changes to not leak fds in GBMClientBuffer have broken the acceptance-tests; a couple of them now segfault.
[06:58] <RAOF> However, for some reason gdb doesn't seem to find DefaultDisplayServerTestFixture_client_library_accesses_and_advances_buffers::TestBody(), so I can't attach gdb at the right place.
[06:59] <RAOF> Because obviously I need to be tracing the _child_, which means I need to set follow-fork-mode just before it forks.
[06:59] <duflu> RAOF: gdb doesn't find it cos it's in a child process. You need to enable tracing into childten
[06:59] <duflu> *children
[06:59] <duflu> Yeah what you said
[07:00]  * RAOF → Zoë bath; back later to be annoyed at gdb further.
[07:00]  * duflu reverts the day's work and starts again. Lost in class dependency spaghetti
[07:55] <RAOF> Hah. Don't accidentally recurse infinitely.
[07:59] <RAOF> Hm, no, that's not going to work. Looks like I really do need to make the server not uselessly send buffers the client already has.
[08:09] <RAOF> kdub: Hey, you send fds for buffers out over the wire - how come android clients don't crash after not very long for exhausting their fd space?
[08:11] <duflu> RAOF: I believe it's past 1am for kdub
[08:12] <RAOF> Yeah, that would be right.
[08:12] <RAOF> He's on in our *morning* :)
[08:12]  * RAOF suspects the answer to his question is ‘if we had any non-trivial demo clients, they *would* crash after not very long by exhausting their fd space’
[08:13] <duflu> Heh
[08:13] <duflu> In time
[10:47] <duflu> Night all
[12:38] <alf_> alan_g: @composite-on-demand, what do you think about on_change_call(...) instead of e.g. set_change_callback(...)
[12:38] <alf_> alan_g: or on_changed_call()
[12:40] <alan_g> alf_: this is actually a case where I tend like "set" - largely because it isn't otherwise clear that it overwrites any existing callback (as opposed to "add...")
[12:41] <alan_g> alf_: but I think any of the above would be an improvement
[12:42] <alf_> alan_g: ok
[12:43] <alan_g> alf_: there's also "on_change_invoke()"
[12:53] <smspillaz> install_change_callback () is another potential one I guess
[12:54] <alf_> alan_g: smspillaz: I like how render_view.on_change_invoke(...) reads, but I will go with set_change_callback() since its semantics are clearer
[12:54] <smspillaz> +1
[12:55] <alf_> smspillaz: I think install_change_callback() suffers from the same problem (as discussed above)
[12:56] <smspillaz> yeah I was thinking that too
[13:24] <kgunn> alf_: are the gl bench #s being dumped somewhere to show a trend chart? or are they individually buried in jenkins test results?
[13:36] <alf_> kgunn: I don't think there is a job for running glmark2 on mir, just on a traditional ubuntu system, but I don't know where the results end up.
[15:07] <kdub> morning
[15:09] <alan_g> Hello!
[15:11] <kdub> status, working on integrating hwc device, hit a snag where (i think) the gpu clocks are not turned on all the way
[15:13] <alan_g> status: got run_mir working properly, MP's a better MessageProcessorReport, and started wondering about glog again
[15:14] <kdub> alan_g, yeah, waiting to clear that needs fixing on the scripts change :/
[15:15]  * alan_g nags kdub
[15:23] <alf_> status: Amending composite-on-demand MP, started investigating mir shutdown regression (i.e. we don't return to a properly configured console sometimes)
[15:47] <sturmflut> What is the status of the input subsystem? I read in the commit logs that input events are now passed down to the client, but how much of the whole system is implemented? Would it be possible to write a demo client which accepts keyboard/mouse events?
[15:50] <smspillaz> sturmflut: ask racarr when he wakes up
[15:50] <alan_g> sturmflut: we're getting closer - racarr is the one to ask
[15:50] <sturmflut> smspillaz, alan_g: Okay
[15:50] <smspillaz> racarr: wake up!
[15:51] <sturmflut> haha
[15:51] <smspillaz> he'll probably be around in 10 minutes :)
[15:52] <smspillaz> sturmflut: if I end up moving to SFO later this year for a possible internship I'll make sure to knock on his door
[15:54] <tvoss> sturmflut, once the last branch lands: yes, you could start writing a client. racarr actually planned something cool :)
[15:54] <tvoss> sturmflut, but best talk to him
[15:55] <sturmflut> I also noticed that my minimal client has to #include <mir/client/mir_toolkit/mir_client_library.h> but the /usr/include/mir/client/mir_toolkit/mir_client_library.h header file provided by the PPA packages tries to #include "mir_toolkit/c_types.h" which does not work. Is this because the Header files are still being shuffled around?
[16:00] <tvoss> sturmflut, I'm pretty sure that is the reason, yes
[16:00] <tvoss> alan_g, can you look into what sturmflut just mentioned?
[16:00] <alan_g> sturmflut: I too am a bit confused about what's happening there. (It isn't what I expect.) Can you temporarily add [/usr/include/]mir/client to your project include path.
[16:01] <alan_g> tvoss: I discussed it with robert_ansell yesterday and was assured it does work. But it seems I'm not the only one of a different opinion.
[16:02] <tvoss> alan_g, ack. sturmflut can you file a bug please?
[16:02] <sturmflut> alan_g: If i add it to my include path it works, as one would expect.
[16:03] <alan_g> sturmflut: use that as a workaround. (But please raise the bug.)
[16:03] <sturmflut> alan_g: Will do
[16:08] <alan_g> kdub: tvoss kgunn (anyone interested) I'm creating a canonical [no pun intended] example of a useful logging reporter. I'd appreciate comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/improved-MessageProcessorReport/+merge/155746
[16:45] <racarr> I exist
[16:45] <racarr> smspillaz: :)
[16:46] <racarr> sturmflut: It's possible to write a demo client which receives keyboard events using the outstanding event ~robertcarr/mir/receive-input-in-client
[16:46] <racarr> your guess of the status in trunk so far is good though, input is sent up to clients
[16:46] <racarr> but not all received yet
[16:46] <racarr> (and pointer input isnt finished)
[16:58] <katie> hi racarr
[16:59] <racarr> Hi katie
[16:59] <katie> how's things? want to have a catch up?
[17:00] <racarr> things are good, not sure I have anything
[17:00] <katie> me neither
[17:02] <racarr> katie: Ok let's skip this week then
[17:02] <katie> racarr: great
[17:03] <katie> i mean, i love our meetings, but good to have some time back :)
[17:03] <racarr> katie: I feel the same :)
[17:04] <racarr> actually right now I feel very little other than disdain for android::Looper but if I had normal feelings that would be it
[17:05] <racarr> status: Iterating on receive-input-in-client...tried to port the client side input machinery to android::Looper to get rid of the short timeouts
[17:05] <racarr> (plus fixing RAOF's other comments)
[17:05] <racarr> got it "working" but acceptance tests fails intermittently with the looper on the client side
[17:05] <kdub> drivers work better when they don't load their firmware all the time
[17:05] <racarr> then back to finishing off inprocess EGL branch from yesterday
[17:05] <tvoss> racarr, can you put a fixme there that notes down that we ideally want to associate it to the same event loop
[17:06] <tvoss> kdub, ? :)
[17:06] <racarr> kdub: Actually mythbusters did a show on that, drivers work best when loading their firmware all the time!
[17:06] <racarr> :p
[17:06] <racarr> tvoss: What do you mean?
[17:06] <racarr> i.e. assosciate all input and everything else to the same event loop?
[17:08] <kdub> tvoss, just a fun bug i caused during hwc development
[17:08] <tvoss> kdub, ah :)
[17:09] <tvoss> racarr, we have a looper in the client api anyway, it's an io_service. We might want to reuse that for the input channel, too
[17:10] <racarr> tvoss: Boost::asio is not a good replacement for epoll I think as we saw in
[17:10] <racarr> Looper.h
[17:10] <racarr> well
[17:11] <racarr> I dunno it can be adapted of course
[17:11] <tvoss> racarr, I do disagree, I think it's a very sane replacement, it just does not fit the Looper model or we haven't looked into it deeply enough
[17:11] <tvoss> racarr, just leave a note in the code :)
[17:14] <kdub> RAOF, to answer the backscroll... we don't exhaust the fd space because the kernel keeps a mapping of pid's to fd's and pops the same one out on the client side on every message
[17:29] <racarr> so weird...the android::Looper version of the client, sometimes it indefinitely hangs in pollOnce in the acceptance test
[17:29] <racarr> if I add the fd to the looper in the first call to next_event instead of in the constructor
[17:29] <racarr> it never fails (well, out of 1000 runs, whereas the other failed ~1/10)
[17:30] <racarr> what is happening...-.-
[17:31] <alan_g> racarr: when things don't make sense it is time to look at something else for 20min
[17:41] <racarr> alan_g: You mean instead of continuing to blunder around in nonsense? Novel idea.
[17:42] <alan_g> I mean that breaking focus helps see what you missed
[17:42] <alan_g> racarr: ^
[18:08] <racarr> alan_g|life: Hehe I know what you mean :)
[18:51] <sturmflut> alan_g|life: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1161064
[18:58] <racarr> sturmflut: Thanks! I am about to go on lunch
[18:58] <racarr> but I will process that later today...I think you are right!
[18:58] <sturmflut> racarr: Input processing on the server side currently concentrates on Android, am I right? Or is there a branch which handles other platforms
[18:58] <racarr> so we should just land a fix asap
[18:58] <racarr> sturmflut: No it works on desktop
[18:58] <racarr> some of the naming is misleading because it uses
[18:58] <racarr> large pieces of the android input stack :)
[18:58] <sturmflut> ah
[18:59] <racarr> so the mir::input::android namespace is the android-input based implementation of mir::input but not the android...platform?
[18:59] <racarr> confusing...need better names :)
[19:00] <racarr> sturmflut: https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/receive-input-in-client/+merge/155368 if you look aronud l363 you can see an example using it :)
[19:24] <racarr> got distracted by finishing inprocess egl XD...just need to find the right abstraction for the display validation now and should be good to go
[19:24] <racarr> but now lunch for real
[20:02] <robert_ancell> tvoss, hello
[20:02] <tvoss> robert_ancell, hey there :)
[20:02] <tvoss> robert_ancell, wanna sync up? I have got nothing urgent on my side
[20:02] <robert_ancell> tvoss, yeah, just a quick one
[20:02] <tvoss> ack, gimme two :)
[21:02] <kdub> meeting "mir team 2"?
[21:02] <RAOF> Yeah, for those of us for whom “mir team 1’ was stupid'o'clock.
[21:04] <kgunn> kdub: RAOF :) happening now
[21:48] <RAOF> kdub: Is that pid→fd mapping an android-specific thing? Because when *I* send fds over the pipe I get a shiny new one each time at the client.
[21:49] <kdub> might be, surfaceflinger does the same thing with its binder transactions
[21:50] <kdub> i can look into it, maybe its an android kernel thing
[21:50] <RAOF> Eh.
[21:51] <RAOF> I'm going to fix things up so we don't send needless fds, so it doesn't really matter.
[21:51] <kdub> that would be better
[22:30] <robert_ancell> RAOF, how are you for pkg-config/include directories?
[22:32] <RAOF> robert_ancell: You mean, would I like to weigh in on the include-directory-structure thread, or do I have enough headers?
[22:32] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I just need a second opinion on https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/mir/mir-common-headers/+merge/155660 - This is just standard stuff to me or is it confusing?
[23:11] <sturmflut> CMake Error at cmake_install.cmake:44 (FILE):
[23:11] <sturmflut>   file INSTALL cannot find "/mnt/datengrab/mir/build/doc/html".
[23:11] <sturmflut> What the heck
[23:18] <sturmflut> As of lately all accelerated clients segfault in XGetXCBConnection () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libX11-xcb.so.1 . I tried it with the packages from the PPA and by building Mir manually. Happens with the included examples and glmark2. The unaccelerated demo client still works.
[23:29] <RAOF> sturmflut: You need to have doxygen installed for make install to work.
[23:30] <RAOF> sturmflut: We should probably fix that :)
[23:30] <sturmflut> RAOF: doxygen is installed
[23:30] <RAOF> Hm. Was it installed when you first ran cmake?
[23:30] <RAOF> Oh, you might *also* have to specifically enable docs.
[23:30] <sturmflut> RAOF: Yes, I even wiped the whole build/ folder and ran cmake again
[23:31] <RAOF> sturmflut: Segfault in XGetXCBConnection means that Mesa hasn't detected the right EGL platform, and has uselessly defaulted to X11 which segfaults if you're not *in* X11.
[23:31] <RAOF> sturmflut: We've recently gone through a transition for mesa which would have caused that, but the mesa in github (and I hope the PPA by now) should work with Mir trunk.
[23:32] <sturmflut> RAOF: On the doc issue: I had to manually set BUILD_DOXYGEN to ON, then it worked
[23:32] <sturmflut> Dunno why it was off in the first place
[23:33] <RAOF> Because we hate you, I think :)
[23:33] <sturmflut> Thank you, sir, I will remember that
[23:33] <RAOF> We should really fix that.
[23:33] <RAOF> To either (a) turn on the docs automatically when doxygen is installed, or (b) not fail to install when the docs haven't been built.
[23:33] <RAOF> Or possibly even (c) both of the above.
[23:34] <RAOF> Equally, Mesa defaulting to the X11 EGL platform is stupid and should be fixed.
[23:36] <sturmflut> How do I find out if my Mesa package is on par with the github version? Seems like most of my Mesa packages are version 9.1~rc2-0ubuntu0+mir2-jenkins17
[23:36] <RAOF> sturmflut: Hm. Mesa in the PPA hasn't been rebuilt since the changes landed in github, so it won't work.
[23:37] <RAOF> thomi: How do we prod jenkins to build & upload a new mesa?
[23:37] <thomi> RAOF: to a PPA you mean? It should happen automatically as part of the autolanding process
[23:38]  * thomi investigates
[23:38] <RAOF> thomi: mesa isn't autolanded.
[23:38] <thomi> ahh, in that case, It's probably as simple as rebuilding a jenkins job
[23:39] <thomi> RAOF: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/mesa-egl-platform-mir-raring-dput/ was last run 20 days ago - does that sound about right?
[23:39] <RAOF> That'd match the timestamp in the PPA; there are new changes in the git branch though that'll make sturmflut's mesa actually work, though.
[23:40] <thomi> ahh, I see the git polling script is throwing an error, I'll rebuild it manually for now, and look in to why it's failing
[23:40] <sturmflut> Now this is what I call Platinum Support
[23:43] <cgoldberg> gource visualization of Mir codebase:  http://youtu.be/7grEFrTBzus
[23:45] <thomi> RAOF: OK, the problem is that the git plugin we're using in jenkins is rather old, and requires a workspace on the slave (which isn't available). I'll file and RT to upgrade the plugin to a newer version, where this issue is fixed
[23:47] <sturmflut> cgoldberg: Looks nice
[23:47] <RAOF> Yeah, very puurdy.
[23:48] <cgoldberg> sturmflut, i love making visualizations when I'm bored... just popped in to have a look at Mir :)
[23:51] <kdub> cool cgoldberg
[23:56] <sturmflut> thomi: Is it safe to build my own Mesa from github? Or should I wait for the packages
[23:57] <thomi> sturmflut: I don't know about "safe", sorry. those packages have been dput'ed, so they shouldn't be too far away
[23:58] <thomi> sturmflut: you can see the build progress here: https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/staging/+packages


[20:37] <hunmaat> hi
[20:38] <erUSUL> !hi
[20:38] <hunmaat> i'd like to get my members' irc cloak
[20:38] <afflux> Hi there
[20:38] <hunmaat> my profile is https://launchpad.net/~orymate
[20:38] <afflux> yup, that's why I'm here too. https://launchpad.net/~afflux
[20:39] <erUSUL> PriceChild: nalioth : ICMP ECHO REQUEST  ^^^^^^^
[20:39] <Myrtti> , please read all the steps in http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup and make sure you've completed them, after which a cloak can be set up for you.
[20:39] <erUSUL> afflux: hunmaat do you have your nick properly registered?
[20:39] <hunmaat> erUSUL: yes
[20:39] <afflux> yes I have
[20:40] <afflux> I'm already cloaked as unaffiliated ;)
[20:40] <Myrtti> so I see
[20:42] <PriceChild> erUSUL: just so you're aware, there are two other members on the ircc capable of getting these cloaks sorted. Asking and waiting also helps.
[20:42] <erUSUL> PriceChild: ok; sorry :/
[20:43] <PriceChild> erUSUL: nothing to be sorry for ;)
[20:43]  * erUSUL :)
[20:45] <PriceChild> afflux: hunmaat: all done
[20:45] <afflux> PriceChild: thanks! Do I have to contact freenode staff now?
[20:45] <PriceChild> afflux: I'm a member of freenode staff.
[20:45] <afflux> aha!
[20:45] <afflux> cool thanks
[20:46] <hunmaat> thank you
[21:23] <LjL> when rafik quits it always looks like a client bug at first
[21:25] <erUSUL> LjL: i see the arabic script just fine XXDD althought do not understand a word of it ;P
[21:25] <nalioth> run it through the fish
[21:25] <LjL> erUSUL: i see it fine too
[21:26] <LjL> it's just the line being at the right of the screen instead of the left
[21:26] <LjL> that's... strange
[21:27] <erUSUL> LjL: i see appears just like any other quit msg in irssi...
[21:27] <LjL> erUSUL: ah, irssi - then you probably don't really see it fine, either
[21:27] <LjL> does the first (leftmost) character look like an | or a small e?
[21:28] <LjL> nalioth: So long ... In the next: and I Ubuntu
[21:28] <LjL> makes ... sense
[21:29] <erUSUL> LjL: well i pastd it as is in google translate and got the same as you (in spanish)
[21:29] <erUSUL> LjL: Tanto tiempo ... En la siguiente: Ubuntu y yo
[21:29] <erUSUL> LjL: yes the first graph looks like a |
[21:30] <LjL> erUSUL: it shouldn't. you're seeing it reversed.
[21:30] <Myrtti> funky.
[21:30] <LjL> that happens on the console.
[21:31] <erUSUL> LjL: thought that pango took care of that...
[21:32] <erUSUL> nalioth: btw fish does not support arab :/
[21:34] <Myrtti> translate.google.com ♥
[21:34] <erUSUL> Myrtti: that's what i ended up using
[21:34] <Myrtti> I haz it on my pink iGoogle ♥
[21:34]  * erUSUL wonders what most of us will do if google disappeared tomorrow...
[21:35] <Myrtti> I'd scream
[21:35] <Myrtti> then I'd scream again
[21:48] <nalioth> erUSUL: 'fish' is generic for any translator you wish.  i never use babelfish.
[21:55] <Myrtti> :-D
[22:02] <riot_le> hi, i am new ubuntu member and me was told that i should ask here for Member Cloak ;-)
[22:02] <LjL> sure
[22:02] <LjL> riot_le: hold on a moment
[22:04] <LjL> riot_le: you should set up your nickname first
[22:04] <LjL> riot_le: you should have an alternate nickname, and also an email address set in nickserv (it can be hidden)
[22:04] <LjL> !register
[22:04] <riot_le> ah ok
[22:04] <LjL> riot_le: follow all the steps above and you'll be all set
[22:11] <riot_le> so i hope i do it all correct, i received an message that i was added to the lp-group
[22:11] <LjL> riot_le: to set your mail, /msg nickserv set email address
[22:13] <riot_le> so thats done
[22:14] <LjL> riot_le: and you have your cloak
[22:14] <riot_le> LjL: thank you
[22:14] <LjL> welcome
[22:14] <riot_le> thanks


[01:57] <sadmac> how do I commit a merge?
[01:57] <sadmac> in bzr
[02:03] <sadmac> nvm.
[04:56] <catsup> does upstart need to have pid 1?
[11:56] <darius12> I wonder how upstart could solve the "boot splash problem". If there is no goal, how can a "percentage" be calculated?
[11:57] <darius12> Some sort of "spinning" is the only UI solution that seems to make sense
[11:59] <darius12> you could also have some sort of "icon parade" in the lower part of the screen so that you can get a sense of what has already started
[14:26] <darius12> I can't build current upstart trunk :-(
[14:27] <darius12> I did the ../nih/nihify && autoreconf -i && ./configure && make dance
[14:27] <ion_> I don’t think it would be very difficult to estimate the percentage based on previous boots.
[14:28] <darius12> yes but what will define the "100%" in order to calculate this percentage? when X started?
[14:28] <ion_> For instance, yes.
[14:29] <darius12> but that can happen at different times depending on the situation (e.g., a usb drive is plugged or not)
[14:29] <ion_> Yes.
[14:29] <ion_> As i said, estimate.
[14:30] <darius12> and when this estimation underestimates? you return the bar back?
[14:31] <darius12> or do you take something like the 200% of the estimation just to be sure?
[14:31] <ion_> No, just let it stay at 100%.
[14:31] <darius12> hmm, if it stays at 100% for long the user might think the system is stuck
[14:32] <ion_> The probability of that happening is low. It’s more likely it stays at a much smaller percentage (e.g. waiting for a device or network), at which time the bar could be replaced with a spinner until there’s progress again.
[14:32] <darius12> and there is also the question how much do you increment the bar for each "started" events?
[14:33] <ion_> That’s based on previous boots.
[14:33] <darius12> but since things start in parallel it is unlikely you can estimate that correctly (at least without a lot of samples)
[14:34] <ion_> I said previous boots. That’s where we get a lot of samples from.
[14:34] <ion_> If there isn’t enough certainty, just show a spinner and collect data.
[14:35] <darius12> So it is a spinner in the beginning and at some arbitrary boot it is transformed to a bar?
[14:35] <ion_> Yes.
[14:36] <ion_> Probably already at the second boot.
[14:36] <ion_> And the accuracy will increase after that.
[14:36] <darius12> interesting
[14:37] <darius12> ion_: does current trunk build for you?
[14:38] <ion_> I haven’t built it for a while, dunno.
[14:38] <darius12> I see. It fails to build here sadly :-(
[14:49] <Keybuk> darius12: what was the result of "make" ?
[14:50] <darius12> INSTALL_NIH does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
[14:51] <darius12> I added it manually and now it breaks inside libnih
[14:51] <darius12> *** No rule to make target `../m4/codeset.m4', needed by `Makefile.in'.  Stop.
[14:51] <darius12> is it possible that I have an incorrect version? I bzr branch'ed from launchpad
[14:52] <darius12> I have rev 960
[14:52] <darius12> I 'm trying to build it in ubuntu hardy
[14:54] <Keybuk> so you checked out trunk
[14:54] <Keybuk> and you ran autoreconf -i ?
[14:54] <darius12> first I run ../libnih/nihify
[14:54] <Keybuk> you nihify'd libnih?
[14:54] <darius12> and then autoreconf -i yes
[14:54] <Keybuk> the _correct_ sequence is ...
[14:55] <Keybuk>   bzr checkout .../libnih/trunk libnih
[14:55] <Keybuk>   bzr checkout .../upstart/trunk upstart
[14:55] <Keybuk>   cd libnih
[14:55] <Keybuk>   autoreconf -i
[14:55] <Keybuk>   cd ../upstart
[14:55] <Keybuk>   ../libnih/nihify
[14:55] <Keybuk>   autoreconf -i
[14:55] <Keybuk> ie. you nihify _upstart_ rather than libnih
[14:55] <Keybuk> if you do it inside libnih, it'll likely futz things up
[14:55] <Keybuk> so you'd need to checkout again
[14:56] <darius12> I did it within upstart's dir
[14:56] <Keybuk> did you do the above sequence?
[14:56] <darius12> but I didn't autoreconf libnih before I do that
[14:56] <Keybuk> ah
[14:56] <darius12> so I 'll try again
[14:57] <darius12> If it works could you please just copy & paste the above snippet in HACKING?
[14:58] <darius12> I missed the "autoreconf -i" part inside libnih in the current instructions
[14:58] <Keybuk> yeah, I probably should
[14:58] <Keybuk> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/CompilingUpstart
[14:58] <Keybuk> has it
[14:59] <Keybuk> hmm, you may have to configure libnih too
[14:59] <Keybuk> I can't remember ;)
[14:59] <darius12> how do you build it?
[15:00] <darius12> it would also be nice then if there was a standard script for all this dance assuming standard directory names ("upstart" and "libnih")
[15:00] <darius12> this way you wouldn't forget yoursef :-)
[15:02] <Keybuk> heh
[15:02] <Keybuk> It's just always checked out
[15:02] <darius12> so you just "make" right?
[15:03] <darius12> ok, I did exactly the above sequence. Now it says: /bin/sh: ../libtool: No such file or directory
[15:03] <Keybuk> yeah
[15:03] <Keybuk> try a ./configure in libnih as well
[15:03] <darius12> ok
[15:04] <darius12> hmm, no it seems to be building :-)
[15:04] <darius12> s/no/now/
[15:04] <darius12> yep, it built fine. thanks :-)
[15:05] <darius12> would you like me to pastebin the exact sequence so that you can put it in HACKING?
[15:08] <darius12> well, it's here if you want it: http://pastebin.ca/1021024
[15:08] <darius12> bbl


[01:06] <hsdyhfg> my network card doesnt look like its compatible
[01:06] <BFTD> really?
[01:06] <BFTD> whats wrong?
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> well i was installing xubuntu on my laptop earlier on
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> and everything looked fine
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> until
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> BAM
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> !
[01:07] <BFTD> !
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> the internet didnt work
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> .
[01:07] <BFTD> nuclear explosion?
[01:07] <BFTD> oh
[01:07] <hsdyhfg> so i tried reinstalling it
[01:08] <BFTD> does it show up in lspci?
[01:08] <hsdyhfg> erm
[01:08] <hsdyhfg> let me see
[01:09] <hsdyhfg> erm
[01:09] <hsdyhfg> typed it in
[01:09] <hsdyhfg> and its got lots of 1s and 0s and stuff
[01:09] <hsdyhfg> but no error messages :S
[01:10] <BFTD> pastebin it
[01:10] <BFTD> "lspci" in terminal?
[01:10] <BFTD> without quotes
[01:10] <hsdyhfg> yep
[01:10] <hsdyhfg> i cant paste coz im using a different pc
[01:11] <hsdyhfg> but the ethernet bit says
[01:12] <hsdyhfg> 000:00:12:0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II]  (rev 74)
[01:12] <BFTD> yuck
[01:12] <BFTD> VIA sucks
[01:12] <BFTD> but ok
[01:12] <BFTD> what does "ifconfig" say?
[01:13] <hsdyhfg> erm
[01:14] <BFTD> does it show eth0?
[01:14] <hsdyhfg> cant see eth0 anywhere
[01:15] <hsdyhfg> oh yea
[01:15] <hsdyhfg> whoops
[01:15] <hsdyhfg> yep
[01:15] <hsdyhfg> it does
[01:15] <hsdyhfg> all looks fine
[01:15] <BFTD> ok
[01:16] <hsdyhfg> is "interrupt" bad?
[01:16] <BFTD> how and where do you get your internet?
[01:16] <BFTD> and how does it get to this computer?
[01:16] <hsdyhfg> k
[01:16] <hsdyhfg> im on a different pc running shitty windows atm
[01:17] <hsdyhfg> cos i cant use my laptop because the network card isn't working on xubuntu
[01:17] <hsdyhfg> its all plugged into one hub, which goes off towards internet
[01:17] <BFTD> is it a hub or a router?
[01:18] <hsdyhfg> erm
[01:18] <hsdyhfg> hub then router
[01:18] <BFTD> ok
[01:18] <BFTD> so is the router set to DHCP?
[01:18] <hsdyhfg> im pretty sure it is
[01:19] <BFTD> ok
[01:19] <BFTD> unplug the cable and plug it back in
[01:19] <hsdyhfg> lol
[01:19] <hsdyhfg> kk
[01:19] <BFTD> do you see any link lights on the card?
[01:21] <hsdyhfg> nope, there arent any lights on the card but the one on the hub is flashing
[01:21] <hsdyhfg> when i installed it
[01:21] <hsdyhfg> an error message came up at startup
[01:22] <hsdyhfg> but when i reboot
[01:22] <hsdyhfg> the error doesn't show anymore
[01:23] <hsdyhfg> im gonna reinstall it
[01:23] <hsdyhfg> and type the error
[01:26] <hsdyhfg> no state is present for card V8235
[01:26] <hsdyhfg> no state is present for modem
[01:26] <BFTD> not sure
[01:27] <hsdyhfg> ahh kk
[01:27] <hsdyhfg> i'll post something on the forums no doubt
[01:27] <hsdyhfg> cheers anyways
[01:45] <cclampblues> anyone awake in here?
[01:45] <vidd_laptop> what up
[01:47] <Jester45> vidd did you get the server working or you just gonna wait till you go to work again
[01:47] <vidd_laptop> wait till i get to work
[01:47] <vidd_laptop> the game is on
[01:47] <Jester45> k
[01:47] <Jester45> just wondering
[01:53] <hsdyhfg> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3179246#post3179246
[01:54] <hsdyhfg> if anyone can help on this i would be very greatfull
[01:54] <hsdyhfg> laters
[02:21] <Rabbitbunny> I'm trying to install from livecd, My display is limited to 640*480. How do I install?
[02:28] <Jester45> you could try the better alt cd
[02:29] <Jester45> shouldnt you beable to install anyways
[02:30] <Rabbitbunny> You have to click on things to install. I can't see anything.
[02:32] <Rabbitbunny> I'm going to choke someone if I need to dl another cd. My burner is on my server. which is supposed to be getting a new OS right now.
[02:40] <Rabbitbunny> Okay. What if I just reconfigure xorg, how would I restart it?
[02:40] <zials> ctrl + alt + backspace
[02:41] <Rabbitbunny> ty
[02:45] <Rabbitbunny> uh.. where would aI type that?
[03:18] <suebuntu> hi guys... as we speak i am waiting for the last couple of minutes for the ALTERNATE INSTALL cd for x to burn...  can anyone give me any tips i might need for the install?  will the installer tell me what commands to enter?  will the installer tell me how to make my swap and main partitions?
[04:33] <cameron_> Azureous crashes on startup, I've reinstalled Azurous, and it still crashes, I do have to torrent set to download to a ntfs partition, but I have ntfs-config and it is set to write
[04:37] <Pumpernickel> If you launch it from a terminal, what does it print as it crashes?
[04:37] <Pumpernickel> (Use pastebin if it's more than a line.)
[04:39] <Jester45> cameron_, did you remove and delete the config for it.
[04:56] <cameron_> sry, back, didn't know anyone was on XD
[04:56] <cameron_> I removed it, and jave
[04:56] <cameron_> java
[04:57] <cameron_> it said blackjava 1.4 had an error
[04:59] <cameron_> would installing java 6 work?
[05:00] <Pumpernickel> Kinda hard to say, without knowing what the actual error was.
[05:00] <cameron_> merry christmas: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33529/
[05:01] <cameron_> XD
[05:02] <cameron_> I already uninstalled Blackdown-1.4.2-02
[05:05] <cameron_> so should I download sun java 6 from the repos?
[05:06] <Pumpernickel> bug 105816
[05:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 105816 in azureus "Azureus crashes after start" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105816
[05:07] <Pumpernickel> bug 57875
[05:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
[05:07] <cameron_> 1st one
[05:08] <cclampblues> yo
[05:09] <Pumpernickel> The trace is similar for both.
[05:09] <Pumpernickel> The second link has more information on the nature of the problem, the first has more information on the fix.
[05:11] <cameron_> I downloaded the .jar file from Azurouses website, how do I install it?
[05:14] <cclampblues> just tap the lid with the back of a knife, then twist
[05:15] <cclampblues> pour contents into power supply fan (you may need to tilt the case or use an angled funnel)
[05:21] <cclampblues> does anyone know how to set up this whole internet thing - only without the goddamn wires?
[05:23] <cclampblues> the little light is blinking alright, but no internet
[05:23] <cameron_> WIfi
[05:23] <Pumpernickel> cameron_: First link, third reply.
[05:23] <cameron_> ???
[05:23] <cclampblues> this was not a problem with that edgy elf but this fiesty fawn is a bitch
[05:24] <Pumpernickel> !language | cclampblues
[05:24] <ubotu> cclampblues: Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[05:24] <cclampblues> !anything
[05:24] <ubotu> So, you wanted to lure me into saying I don't know anything about anything? Yeah, that would be funny, of course. Now leave me alone.
[05:24] <cclampblues> lol.
[05:25] <cclampblues> !rollover
[05:25] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about rollover - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:25] <cclampblues> still a stupid robot
[05:25] <cclampblues> i know i get it pumper
[05:25] <cclampblues> sorry
[05:26] <cclampblues> in all seirousness the fawn hates my wireless connection.
[05:27] <cclampblues> but the elf had no problems.
[05:28] <cclampblues> I go to network settings and i show two wireless networks
[05:28] <cclampblues> i configured one, then the other, then both, and nothing
[05:29] <cclampblues> ok thats not enitrely true. when i set up (wlan0) the light on my pcmcia (did i meantion its a laptop?) wifi card blinks: activity but no love from firefox, gaim, etc.
[05:31] <cclampblues> anyone have any suggestions? if not i will just keep playing with the robot....................
[05:31] <cclampblues> after all someone needs to teach it some new tricks
[05:33] <Pumpernickel> !wifi
[05:33] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[05:33] <Pumpernickel> The 'supported hardware' wiki may have documentation re: what it takes to get your wifi hardware working in Feisty.
[05:35] <cclampblues> yeah, i appriciate that, but why would one device be supported in fiesty but not edgy?
[05:35] <cclampblues> err. vice versa rather
[05:36] <cameron_> I have Azureus<IP_ADDRESS>.jar on my desktop, when I run cameron@ubuntu:~/Desktop$ java Azureus<IP_ADDRESS>.jar
[05:36] <cameron_> , I get cameron@ubuntu:~/Desktop$ java Azureus<IP_ADDRESS>.jar
[05:38] <Pumpernickel> I'd be surprised if it wasn't supported in Feisty.  Most wifi problems are just configuration problems.
[05:39] <cclampblues> thats what i think the case is here. but i am at a loss as what could be the problem.
[05:39] <Pumpernickel> That's why I recommended the 'supported hardware' wiki.  It often shows what it takes to make it work.
[05:40] <cclampblues> right but my device is not listed
[05:40] <cclampblues> i have/am reading the wiki
[05:40] <Pumpernickel> What is it?
[05:42] <cclampblues> an smc pcmcia card
[05:42] <Pumpernickel> Model?
[05:43] <cclampblues> smc2635w
[05:45] <cclampblues> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-7525.html
[05:46] <cclampblues> but it worked like magic with the edgy elf.
[05:46] <mikubuntu> heeeelllllp please with install from alternate cd.  I am at the partitioner and its telling me b4 the LVM can b configd, current scheme has to b written to disk... the partition tables of following devices are changed: scsi1 (0,0,0) (sda)  do i want to proceed and write the changes?
[05:48] <mikubuntu> or i can 'go back' ... i'm lost
[05:48] <Pumpernickel> If it's going to be set up the way you want, go ahead.
[05:48] <mikubuntu> Pumpernickel: i don't have a pref as long as it's correct for sys
[05:50] <mikubuntu> i am not trying to save any files or data, complete writeover win98
[05:52] <mikubuntu> am i safe to proceed here, or should i go back to Option 1: Guided, recize scsi1, partition #5,sda, and used freed space; or, Option 2: Guided: use entire disk; or Option 3: Guided, use entire disk and set up LVM
[05:53] <Pumpernickel> Set it up however you want.
[05:54] <mikubuntu> its a 10.3 hard drive, and 64 ram; does that make any diff as to choice?
[05:55] <cclampblues> i entered iwconfig in terminal.... what is the difference between lo wmaster0 and wlan0
[05:55] <cclampblues> ?
[05:55] <mikubuntu> there must be some reason x is offering the choice, can someone shed some lite for me?
[05:56] <Pumpernickel> LVM is unnecessary for a disk config that small; it only really becomes useful with multiple partitions/disks.
[05:57] <Pumpernickel> The rest pretty much explains itself - one option to use the entire disk, the other to use just the unused space on it.
[05:58] <Pumpernickel> cclampblues: lo is your loopback interface.  wlan0 should be your wireless interface.
[05:59] <cclampblues> loopback?
[06:00] <mikubuntu> Pumpernickel: sounds like you're saying to go with door number two
[06:01] <mikubuntu> so now it's creating ext3, and then swapfile ... what's the purpose of the swap?
[06:03] <cclampblues> is there a terminal command to setup wlan0 directly. it shows as 0 quality, signal and noise
[06:03] <cclampblues> i did setup wlan0 through the network settings gui dialog
[06:05] <Pumpernickel> There's ifconfig/iwconfig.
[06:08] <mikubuntu> pumpernickel: can you tell me anything about the GRUB error 18?  we completed an install of x on her computer, but when she tried to boot got that error message; i have her on the phone...
[06:09] <Pumpernickel> mikubuntu: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Stage2-errors
[06:11] <cclampblues> well thanks for your help pumperkickel,,,,,,, keep at it tomorrow...
[06:15] <mikubuntu> Pumpernickel: thanks, i'll send it to her
[06:20] <Chriswaterguy> hi... having problem creating a file system. I'm installing Xubuntu from the Desktop CD (which I burned last night after doing a checksum)
[06:22] <Chriswaterguy> I get an error message: "Failed to create a file system. The ext3 file system creation in partition #1 of SCSI1 (0,0,0) (sda) failed."
[06:22] <cellofellow> so, that means mkfs-ext3 /dev/sda1 failed for some reason.
[06:22] <cellofellow> mkfs.ext3 rather
[06:23] <cameron_> I have java 6, how do I install a .jar program with it?
[06:23] <cellofellow> cameron_: I'd try java thefile.jar
[06:24] <Chriswaterguy> I'm installing on a Lenovo Thinkpad R60.
[06:25] <cameron_> cameron@ubuntu:~/Desktop$ java Azureus<IP_ADDRESS>.jar
[06:25] <cameron_> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Azureus3/0/1/6/jar
[06:25] <cameron_> cameron@ubuntu:~/Desktop$
[06:25] <Chriswaterguy> cellofellow: Do you mean the disk failed?
[06:25] <Chriswaterguy> Any suggestions?
[06:25] <cellofellow> brb, sorry
[06:28] <Jester45> cameron_, try using the linux download and run the sh script
[06:30] <cameron_> ?
[06:31] <Jester45> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/azureus/Azureus_<IP_ADDRESS>_linux.tar.bz2?download
[06:32] <Jester45> or if your amd64
[06:32] <cameron_> no, intel P D
[06:32] <alnokta> what font do you use for user interface settings?
[06:32] <cameron_> Azurous 3.0 is out though
[06:33] <cameron_> Azureus<IP_ADDRESS>.jar is what I have, but then how do I install the bz2 file???????/
[06:33] <Jester45> yea...
[06:33] <Jester45> 3.0 is poop
[06:34] <Jester45> un untar
[06:34] <Chriswaterguy> (I may have an answer - going to follow the last post in https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/5296 )
[06:34] <Jester45> then goto the folder it makes from the untaring
[06:34] <Jester45> then run the script
[06:34] <Jester45> its named azureus i think
[06:35] <cameron_> cameron@ubuntu:~/Desktop$ un untar Azureus_<IP_ADDRESS>_linux.tar.bz2
[06:35] <cameron_> bash: un: command not found
[06:35] <Jester45> tar -xvvjf Azureus_<IP_ADDRESS>_linux.tar.bz2
[06:36] <alnokta> ? i mean what do you prefer ;)
[06:36] <Jester45> alnokta, i use 9 point
[06:36] <Jester45> sana
[06:36] <Jester45> sans
[06:37] <cameron_> kk, I got the uncompressed folder, now I would like to install...
[06:37] <alnokta> Jester45, thanks :)
[06:37] <Jester45> cameron_, thats the stuff
[06:37] <cameron_> hostis
[06:37] <Jester45> there is not installing
[06:37] <Jester45>  go into the foler
[06:37] <cameron_> click the exe?
[06:37] <mikubuntu> can someone tell me; is BIOS hardware or software?  how do i 'flash' a BIOS to update it (an old laptop is not allowing me to get to the page for boot options)
[06:37] <Jester45> and run the script
[06:37] <Jester45> no
[06:38] <Jester45> the file named azureus or Azureus it will have a icon that looks like a white peice of paper with a light gray gear on it
[06:38] <alnokta> Jester45, is there a page 'whats new' for gutsy?
[06:38] <Jester45> if your using defualt icons
[06:39] <cameron_> ary, g2g, but THANK YOU, I NEEEDED some torrents ;)
[06:39] <Jester45> cam
[06:39] <Jester45> darn
[06:39] <Jester45> if anyone sees him again tell him to try deluge
[06:43] <Jester45> alnokta, idk feel free to find with google or on the wiki
[06:46] <mikubuntu> can someone tell me; is BIOS hardware or software?  how do i 'flash' a BIOS to update it (an old laptop is not allowing me to get to the page for boot options)
[06:47] <cellofellow> mikubuntu: BIOS is Basic Input/Output System. It is a basic system for configuring the hardware.
[06:47] <cellofellow> to flash the bios, you need a floppy, but idk how.
[06:47] <cellofellow> !bios
[06:47] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bios - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[06:48] <cellofellow> blasted bot
[06:48] <cellofellow> !BIOS
[06:48] <Jester45> its half software...
[06:48] <cellofellow> more like firmware
[06:48] <Jester45> yea
[06:48] <Jester45> some older computers cant be updated
[06:49] <Jester45> its like a kernel but lower level... but im guessing you dont know what those are
[06:50] <mikubuntu> cellofellow: thanks.  so if it can't be updated, i wonder ... i bought this hard drive 2.5" enclosure one button backup thing ... can i take the hd out of the aforementioned machine, attach it to another, install xub, and then put it back in the machine with any hope for success?
[06:50] <Jester45> depends on the machines
[06:50] <Jester45> are the the same hardware
[06:51] <cellofellow> mikubuntu: if you don't customize the hardware settings, should work mostly.
[06:51] <mikubuntu> hmmmm.... ok
[06:51] <Jester45> well biggest thing are they both intel or amd
[06:51] <Jester45> you might need to reset the video settings
[06:51] <mikubuntu> ok.  is amd what they refer to as 64 bit?
[06:52] <Jester45> yea
[06:52] <Jester45> well
[06:52] <Jester45> someof them
[06:52] <Jester45> what amd is it
[06:52] <cellofellow> AMD is a company like Intel. AMD came up with the x86_64 stuff first, so it gets called amd64 a lot.
[06:52] <cellofellow> but amd makes normal x86_32 stuff too.
[06:53] <mikubuntu> i don't know if i have amd on any of them; do all the mfgs make machines using either or?
[06:53] <mikubuntu> like does dell make some 64bit and some intel?
[06:53] <cellofellow> most are Intel-only shops, actually.
[06:53] <Jester45> it should be fine
[06:53] <Jester45> just get the 32bit one
[06:53] <cellofellow> Dell has lots of Intel 32 and 64, plus a bit of AMD 32 and 64.
[06:53] <mikubuntu> so the amd is a rarer find
[06:53] <cellofellow> smaller company.
[06:54] <Jester45> the 64bit cpu should have the 32bit compatiblity
[06:54] <cellofellow> only popular with the masses in recent years.
[06:54] <cellofellow> If it's an AMD or Intel 64 bit CPU, it has 32 bit compatibily.
[06:55] <cellofellow> other brands don't bother with backwards compatibility, like IBM PowerPC and Sun SPARC 64bit versions don't work with the older 32bit.
[06:55] <mikubuntu> hmmmmm ... ok... i seee the software install on the desktop i'm trying to do is at 94%... i wish i thought it would be a flawless install, but i'm kinda dreading the end....
[06:55] <mikubuntu> 97% and 'cleaning up'
[06:56] <Jester45> dreading what?
[06:56] <mikubuntu> that there won't be a successful 'out of the box' install
[06:57] <mikubuntu> we've been trying to get x on my friends machine for three days, and she keeps having to go back livecd
[06:58] <mikubuntu> omg, its doing the 'grub' install now.  that's where her prob has been, on boot says grub error 18, and won't boot
[06:59] <cellofellow> grub has good docs
[06:59] <mikubuntu> rebooting now, cross fingers for me plz
[07:00] <mikubuntu> if it works it will be mom's introduction to the early 21st century
[07:09] <mikubuntu> wow.  xubuntu loaded up perfectly, or it seems to have at least, and this is a lot older and smaller system than my friends that we've been having so much trouble with.  gonna cut out and give it a test ride, thanks for all your help guys.
[07:10] <mikubuntu> ooops, but wait; one more question ... where do i go to set screen parameters?  the word 'application' is cut off the top left of the screen, is there a way to adjust?
[07:11] <cellofellow> should be monitor options
[07:11] <cellofellow> the OSD
[07:11] <mikubuntu> cellofellow: thanks, i'll go check it out
[07:28] <anandanbu> How to add Pidgin in the top panel if xubuntu 7.04
[07:54] <mikubuntu> hmmmmm.... just got done installing x on a hp pav 6635, with a win98 sticker on it, and seems to be a good install all around. abiword renders well, but openoffice is a graphic mess.  i obviously don't want this machine for 'gaming' in any modern sense of the word, but i thought mom could play her card games on it at least.  but when i try to install, or enable ANY of the games on the installed list, i get a msg that it's not s
[07:54] <mikubuntu> upported for this machine ... ?  is it possible that it won't support a game of solitaire???
[08:30] <voldermort> How to remove an item from the top panel in xubuntu 7.04
[09:05] <Rabbitbunny> Hmm, second problem. It fails to partition my drive without giving a specific error.
[09:05] <Rabbitbunny> It reads the drive, see all my files.
[09:21] <vasilije> it happened to me once, just reboot
[09:21] <Rabbitbunny> Okay.
[09:24] <Rabbitbunny> it laughed and did it again.
[09:25] <Rabbitbunny> for some reason my ide drive is scsi now. interesting.
[09:51] <vasilije> what exaclty are you trying to do? install?
[09:52] <Rabbitbunny> Yes.
[09:53] <vasilije> what version? xubuntu? 6.06?
[09:53] <Rabbitbunny> xubuntu.... newest stable.
[09:54] <vasilije> 7.04?
[09:54] <Rabbitbunny> yeah, 7.04 live cd
[09:54] <Rabbitbunny> "desktop"
[09:55] <vasilije> hmmm... I didn't even give it a try, the live cd didn't recognize my picmcia wifi card. But the 6.06 does, go figure
[09:56] <vasilije> so I'd recommend you stick to 6.06
[09:56] <vasilije> it's most stable from what I understand
[09:56] <Rabbitbunny> Okay.  Xserver crashed cuz of a screen lock (screen saver) bug while I was updating, I've all the ubuntu/xubuntu versions on cd now
[10:00] <vasilije> xubuntu 6.06 is the best for a slower machine
[10:00] <Rabbitbunny> ah.
[10:00] <Rabbitbunny> Good to know.
[10:01] <vasilije> just turn off the screen locking after you install
[10:01] <Rabbitbunny> why would the screen ever lock?
[10:02] <vasilije> well if you don't use the machine for a while it asks for your password, that's a screen saver option
[10:03] <vasilije> it's turned on by default and it's very annoying
[10:03] <Rabbitbunny> oh, Yeah I hate that. physical entry is not a huge security risk for me. The closest house is two miles.
[10:03] <vasilije> and buggy
[10:04] <Rabbitbunny> I just wan it to sit there be quiet, run samba apache php mysql ventrilo and anything I decide to write all wile displaying wireshark.
[10:04] <Rabbitbunny> that's it. no video editing. just sit there and shut up.
[10:05] <vasilije> It'll do just fine
[10:05] <Rabbitbunny> it it didn't get four or five viruses everyday like xphome it would be awesome too
[10:06] <vasilije> well you don't have to worry about that
[10:06] <Rabbitbunny> maybe even go ! when it sees some crazy network activity. '3000 DNS ptr's from one box in 12 seconds? throw up the ! flash the screen!'
[10:07] <Rabbitbunny> ohyeah, I bet *nix isn't going to get windows virii...
[10:09] <vasilije> there's no way for that to happen
[10:09] <Rabbitbunny> right, calls are entirly different.
[10:10] <vasilije> but it can collapse under it's own weight, at least the GUI stuff, and if you're no propellerhead, it's off for a reinstall again
[10:11] <Rabbitbunny> meh, as long as it's not planning on taking my files down with it... no biggy.
[10:11] <Rabbitbunny> Once I install it I can do it a hundred million times.
[10:12] <Rabbitbunny> eh, naptime.
[10:12] <vasilije> yeah, I've some windows stuff to do
[10:21] <Rabbitnix> lol, decided against the nap.
[10:23] <Rabbitbunny> Windows box
[10:23] <Rabbitnix> Server.
[10:23] <Rabbitnix> oh, that looks odd.
[10:25] <vasilije> mmm
[10:26] <vasilije> I've no problem with windows, .NET pays the smokes
[10:26] <Rabbitnix> lol
[10:26] <Rabbitnix> It's soo easy to teach and quick to set up, that's the kety to it's dominance.
[10:27] <vasilije> have you tried mac?
[10:27] <Rabbitnix> However, I've quite an intrest in robotics, and you can't have a windows box running around the neighborhood.
[10:27] <Rabbitnix> Not yet, easier?
[10:27] <vasilije> if what you say is true, mac should be dominant
[10:27] <Rabbitnix> lol, it's for gimps eh?
[10:27] <Rabbitnix> then again, until a few years ago mac was pushing the 'we got piktures nubs' campaign.
[10:28] <vasilije> yeah, but you can also hack away with it all you want, a monster
[10:28] <Rabbitnix> intresting.
[10:28] <Rabbitnix> *interesting
[10:29] <vasilije> I was very much against having a mac
[10:29] <Rabbitnix> I've _got_ one... ] [e ftl :(
[10:29] <vasilije> until... I got one :)
[10:30] <Rabbitnix> one of these days it's a fash tank, when I get off my ass and do it.
[10:30] <Rabbitnix> *fish.
[10:30] <Rabbitnix> typi8ng in the dary sucks.
[10:32] <vasilije> have u used linux for a longer period?
[10:33] <vasilije> you are interested in making a robot run around on linux?
[12:04] <BWMerlin> Hi i have broken panel some how
[12:06] <BWMerlin> i have managed to get to /usr/share/application and have opened xfce settings manager (nothing will open from a right click on the desktop) but i still can't open panel
[12:06] <vasilije> the applications button is gone?
[12:06] <vasilije> or the whole panel?
[12:09] <BWMerlin> the whole panel ie. the top and bottom bars and it has taken right click with it (ie. nothing will launch from the right click menu)
[12:54] <Solid> does xubuntu work with 32mo ram? With an alternate installer of course...?
[12:58] <Pumpernickel> The minimum amount I've seen is usually 64MB.
[01:03] <Solid> Win98 works fine with 32mo, i thought that would be the same with xfce...?
[01:05] <pleia2> Solid: you might want to try something line fluxbox instead
[01:05] <pleia2> s/line/like
[01:06] <pleia2> in theory xfce could run on 32M, but it'd be pretty awful, even on my super slimmed down laptop w/ 128M of ram the lowest I've been able to get on-bootup to get with xfce is 36M of ram usage - and that's without thunar or cups running in the background
[01:07] <pleia2> or much at all running in the background, I shut down a lot of services to get that low
[01:07] <pleia2> no gdm, no xscreensaver, no hald
[01:08] <Solid> okay, i'll try
[01:08] <Solid> thanks
[01:19] <BWMerlin> does anyone know how to restore panel?
[01:23] <Pumpernickel> BWMerlin: alt + F2 should bring up a 'run' dialog; launch xfce4-panel from there.
[01:25] <BWMerlin> cheers thats done the trick
[01:25] <BWMerlin> idk y it broke in the first place but thanks
[01:46] <vasilije> does anyone know the difference in stability and performance between 6.06 and 6.10, should I expect more stable xfce if I upgrade to 6.10 for example? I've had it crash on me last time I installed
[02:20] <TheSheep> vasilije: both dapper and edgy use a beta version of xfce, feisty is the first one with a stable version, as far as I remember
[02:30] <vasilije> hmmm... thanxs... what bugs me now is feisty's support for my pcimcia wireless lan card. When I boot the feisty ubuntu cd it has problems connecting on my access point, with dapper I don't have that problem. But it does find the name of the wireless network. Could this be because I'm low on RAM and the ubuntu feisty live cd uses too much of it?
[02:32] <vasilije> and do you think I'll get some performance and stability advantages by upgrading from dapper to feisty?
[02:39] <TheSheep> vasilije: stability yes, performance -- depends, don't know about hardware support, it changes from version to version rater randomly :(
[04:06] <sayers> Hello. Is there a minimum hardware / reccomended hardware page? I'm looking into buying an ancient laptop and want to know if I can use it
[04:07] <TheSheep> sayers: http://xubuntu.org/get#requirements
[04:08] <sayers> Okay
[04:08] <sayers> 128 ram will do then
[04:08] <TheSheep> sayers: minds it's *minimum*
[04:09] <sayers> Yes
[04:09] <sayers> I might use a lighter-distro
[04:09] <TheSheep> zippo-linux? ;)
[04:09] <sayers> I really am just running Firefox [or iceweasel]  and simple things
[04:09] <TheSheep> sayers: firefox is the most memory-hungry application ins the whole xubuntu
[04:09] <sayers> here are two laptops I'm looking at : http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140146999968 http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-Tecra-8200-Laptop-1GHz-256MB-RAM-20GB-HD_W0QQitemZ140147104354QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140147104354
[04:10] <sayers> TheSheep: yes, thats why I'd probably use something else.
[04:14] <j1mc> sayers: http://tinyurl.com
[04:22] <sayers> j1mc: It still is considered less than !pastebin
[04:24] <j1mc> sayers: yeah, but i can't click on links from my console, so i have to copy and paste them.
[04:27] <sayers> highlight + middle mouse
[05:34] <ErikK> Hey...
[05:34] <ErikK> I have a big problem...
[05:34] <ErikK> I really want to use Xubuntu on my old Laptop...
[05:36] <ErikK> Problem is that my BIOS is from 1999 and Xubuntu, as proberbly known, only supports an update from 2000...
[05:36] <ErikK> A newer BIOS haven't been made...
[05:36] <ErikK> So how can I possibly solve this problem...?
[05:37] <Blue0ctane> Hey. I'm very new to Xubuntu, just having downloaded the ISO last night. Everything works great, and I want to install it while formatting the rest of my hard drive (don't ask why). Is there a way to do this?
[05:38] <ErikK> BlueOctane: You want to format your Harddrive and then install Xubuntu, is that correct...?
[05:38] <Blue0ctane> Correct.
[05:39] <ErikK> In that case you can format your HDD FOR GOOD with Killdisk...
[05:39] <Blue0ctane> Where might I find this application?
[05:39] <ErikK> I use it everytime I need to install an OS...
[05:40] <ErikK> And it feels like having a brand new HDD...
[05:40] <Blue0ctane> Never mind. Googled it.
[05:40] <ErikK> Yes...
[05:40] <Blue0ctane> The problem is that my version of XP is so corrupted that I can't reach the log-in screen without a BSOD.
[05:41] <ErikK> But I know a place where you can get a Virusfree ISO of Killdisk with alot of other app...
[05:41] <ErikK> Sorry, I don't know the term BSOD...
[05:41] <Blue0ctane> Blue Screen of Death.
[05:41] <ErikK> What does it mean...?
[05:41] <ErikK> Ahh...
[05:42] <Blue0ctane> Basically, my XP is screwed.
[05:42] <ErikK> I see...
[05:42] <ErikK> Try a small Win Dist...
[05:42] <Blue0ctane> Pardon?
[05:42] <ErikK> Try install a new Win dist...
[05:43] <ErikK> Windows Distribution..
[05:43] <Blue0ctane> Oh, sorry.
[05:43] <ErikK> An old Windows perhaps...
[05:43] <Blue0ctane> Okay, thank you.
[05:43] <ErikK> It should be a faster Installation than XP...
[05:44] <ErikK> Download and make either a Floppy Version of Killdisk or the CDrom Version...
[05:44] <ErikK> Active@ also have a cool small burning program for ISOs...
[05:45] <ErikK> I leave it to you...
[05:45] <ErikK> :D
[05:46] <ErikK> c ya...
[06:21] <wubinoobi> hullo... i know this is not ezackly on target, but i wonder if someone could tell me how to back up my windows docs so that i can go ahead and do full x install on my laptop.  it's just about 300 or so files in my docs, nothing heavy; no music, no video, no photos, just word and web files... i have never backed anything up since, well, ever... don't know how.
[06:22] <wubinoobi> oh, did i mention i don't have a burner...
[06:22] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: pendrive?
[06:22] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: network connection?
[06:22] <wubinoobi> bummer no burner
[06:22] <wubinoobi> ya, network connected
[06:23] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: then copy it to some other box over the network
[06:23] <wubinoobi> i have couple of small flash drives but i don't know how to determine how much space i need
[06:24] <TheSheep> no idea either, I'd assume that Windows displays file sizes somewhere, but you can never be sure
[06:24] <wubinoobi> TheSheep: i don't get it? whose box?
[06:24] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: yours, preferably
[06:24] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: or some friend of yours, maybe
[06:24] <wubinoobi> i don't see any file sizes displayed
[06:25] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: you can also just try if they fit :)
[06:25] <wubinoobi> do you mean to email them out?
[06:25] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: no, copy over samba or ftp or whatever
[06:26] <wubinoobi> omg.  tech panic attack.  don't know how. :)
[06:27] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: Refer to your user guide or call their support or something. They do have manuals and support, right?
[06:27] <wubinoobi> be back in a few, gonna try and track down some flash...
[06:27] <wubinoobi> TheSheep: na, this old laptop's way out of support, no doubt
[06:28] <predaeus> wubinoobi, maybe you can zip it all up and put it at some file upload site http://www.google.com/search?&q=file%20upload&meta=   but be sure to chose one where your stuff is not publically accessible or so.
[06:28] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: but Microsoft still exists and supports their suftware?
[06:28] <predaeus> and where it will stay for at least a few days, in case something goes wrong with installing.
[06:28] <wubinoobi> i bought it 2nd hand anyways... guess i have been lucky never to have lost things for not backing up
[06:29] <wubinoobi> b back in a few
[06:29] <wubinoobi> thanks
[06:29] <TheSheep> wubinoobi: you could also boot ubuntu livecd and use that -- it displays file sizes and all
[07:02] <razor111> hi all
[07:03] <razor111> what does this mean? firefox is already running, but is not responding.To open a new window ...... bla bla bla..., i already restarted my computer but nothing change
[07:03] <razor111> ?
[07:06] <zials> mhmm...
[07:06] <zials> open a terminal
[07:06] <zials> and try
[07:06] <zials> killall firefox
[07:06] <zials> err...I mean, killall firefox-bin
[07:10] <razor111> works, thanks, i hope it wont happend from now on
[07:20] <wubinoobi> TheSheep: this is great.  i found a 128mb flash drive, on top of a bowl of magnets.  that's not good, is it?
[07:20] <wubinoobi> :)
[07:20] <wubinoobi> i found a view of the files that does display file sizes, but not a total, guess i have to get a calculator and add them up... if a file says 27.5 kb how does that compare to a megabyte?
[07:20] <wubinoobi> is a megabyte 100 kb ?
[07:23] <zials> a megabyte is... 1000 kb
[07:25] <hyper_ch> zials: nope
[07:25] <hyper_ch> zials: it's 1024
[07:26] <zials> beh... if you wanna get technical, sure >.<"
[07:28] <hyper_ch> it's a fact... not technical ;)
[07:46] <kstr> where can i change wich programs start with xubuntu please?
[07:49] <Riot777> kstr: xubuntu menu -> settings -> second option
[07:50] <kstr> hmm... the add/remove programs always starts up with xubuntu, but it's not in that list... how come?
[07:52] <galorin> kstr, when logging out, you'll want to uncheckthe "save this session for future logins" box
[07:53] <kstr> oh
[07:54] <kstr> sorry i'm a newbee
[07:54] <galorin> 's ok.  I've been bit by that before, with the same program starting half a dozen times because of that little box
[07:55] <galorin> xubuntu is cool, I run mythtv on top of it for a good media centre PC
[07:55] <kstr> hehe
[07:56] <Riot777> agree
[07:57] <vasilije> anyone installed dapper on raid0 array?
[07:58] <galorin> Yep, 0+1in fact. Pain in the neck to bring back to life though
[07:59] <galorin> wait, no.. that was my home dirs, the system itself was raid 5
[08:00] <hyper_ch> Riot777: you're a good-looking female?
[08:00] <Riot777> lol
[08:01] <hyper_ch> Riot777: if so, I'm also a noob ;)
[08:01] <Riot777> unfortunetly not :P
[08:01] <Riot777> :(
[08:01] <hyper_ch> ^^
[08:01] <hyper_ch> anyone wants to debug some php? ^^
[08:01] <Riot777> haha
[08:01] <kstr> how can i install an (old) scanner (via lpt)
[08:02] <hyper_ch> what do you need a scanner for?
[08:02] <hyper_ch> just take a picture with your digital camera and upload that ;)
[08:02] <kstr> snanning pictures and documents
[08:02] <hyper_ch> (that's how I "scan" documents)
[08:09] <Riot777> kstr: what's the model of yar scanner ?
[08:10] <kstr> Artiscan 9600 pro
[08:10] <hyper_ch> !hardware
[08:10] <ubotu> For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
[08:11] <hyper_ch> kstr: already checked there?
[08:11] <kstr> is it for xubuntu also?
[08:12] <slow-motion> hallo
[08:13] <Riot777> kstr: http://www2.autistici.org/tamarhack/wiki.htm
[08:13] <hyper_ch> kstr: hardware is independent from the GUI
[08:14] <hyper_ch> kstr: the underlaying system that runs the hardware is the same whether you run xfce, kde, gnome, enlightment, .....
[08:14] <kstr> ok
[08:14] <kstr> so the drivers are the same also
[08:15] <hyper_ch> kstr: yes, they are
[08:16] <kstr> oh my, seems that the only option is to run it in wine... too bad
[08:17] <hyper_ch> kstr: why? it's better than running it in a virtual computer like vmware ;)
[08:19] <kstr> yeah but it would be better just to be able to use it normally in linux
[08:21] <hyper_ch> kstr: what's normal about linux? ;)
[08:21] <hyper_ch> any OP here?
[08:21] <kstr> hehe
[08:22] <hyper_ch> OT: The coyote actually captures the road runner:  http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=KJJW7EF5aVk
[08:24] <zorglu_> q. i look for the ubuntu distro which use the smallest amount of ram. i bet on xubuntu. it comes in 2 versions alternate and desktop, which one should i choose ?
[08:27] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: well, xubuntu isn't the smallest one on ram ;)
[08:27] <zorglu_> how much ram do i need to run it ?
[08:27] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: 64mb for the alternate install
[08:27] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: 128mb for the desktop cd
[08:27] <kstr> i use xubuntu wioth 160 mb ram
[08:27] <zorglu_> hyper_ch: i plan to run it under virtualbox on a box with only 512mbyte
[08:28] <zorglu_> ok good enought for me :)
[08:28] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: well, the desktop cd will afterwards also run on 64mb - just for running it and installtion it requires 128mb
[08:29] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: I'd go for the alternate install cd, it is less troublesome for installation
[08:29] <zorglu_> hyper_ch: what do you mean by 'afterward' ? after what ?
[08:29] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: after installation ;)
[08:29] <zorglu_> ah ok :)
[08:29] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: but 64mb is slow
[08:30] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: you could of course use an alternate desktop
[08:30] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: that would improve speed quite a bit
[08:30] <zorglu_> well i think that's gonna be good engouth
[08:30] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: :)
[08:30] <zorglu_> i just want to do some ssh on it
[08:31] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: what do you need a gui then for?
[08:31] <zorglu_> just in case i got some stuff to do in it
[08:32] <zorglu_> i dont want to go 'offstream' if i hit an issue
[08:32] <zorglu_> most doc are about gui, so gui is the easiest to handle
[08:33] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: most docs aren't about the gui :)
[08:33] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: the man pages are really excellent
[08:33] <TheSheep> most docs accessed from gui are about gui ;)
[08:34] <vasilije> and most docs accessed by not-gui are
[08:34] <zorglu_> well i wont argue with the quality of man page :)
[08:34] <zorglu_> lets say it shows its age :)
[08:35] <zorglu_> no hyperlink, poorly written
[08:35] <zorglu_> ok ok sorry, i dont want to argue about it :)
[08:35] <zorglu_> forget i said that
[08:35] <TheSheep> obviously you never read any
[08:35] <zorglu_> ok more imporant cdimage.ubuntu.com just stopped the cd transfert in the middle :)
[08:35] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: if you just want to ssh into it, I really wonder why you want a gui
[08:35] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: resume it
[08:36] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: or use torrent instead
[08:36] <zorglu_> cool resumed it with succees
[08:37] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: just make a md5 check once you got the image to verify everything is clean
[08:37] <hajhouse> the online manual of xfwm for xfce4.2 discusses a panel in the wm keybinding configuration gui for application-launcher bindings. anyone know why this panel is missing from xubuntu 7.04's xfce?
[08:37] <zorglu_> hyper_ch: yep md5sum in progress
[08:38] <zorglu_> and md5 matches! :)
[08:39] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: now burn it not quicker than 4x
[08:39] <zorglu_> hyper_ch: virtualbox is able to boot it from the fs :)
[08:39] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: ah yeah, forgot ;)
[08:41] <zorglu_> hyper_ch: how large should be the disk to install xubuntu on ?
[08:41] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: depends what you want to do ;)
[08:41] <zorglu_> aka how large should be the 'partition'
[08:42] <zorglu_> hyper_ch: minimal stuff to play with
[08:42] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: 4b should be fine then I think
[08:42] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: 4gb
[08:42] <zorglu_> 4gb is the small ? :)
[08:42] <zorglu_> wow :)
[08:42] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: maybe less...
[08:42] <hyper_ch> !requirements
[08:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about requirements - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:42] <hyper_ch> !minimum
[08:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about minimum - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:43] <zorglu_> ok i will try with 4gbyte. ubuntu installer doesnt allows to choose the install componants, correct ?
[08:43] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: nope, it doesn't
[08:43] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: on xubuntu.org/get
[08:43] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: why doesn't ubotu know about it?
[08:43] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: and you need a swap partition
[08:43] <zorglu_> To install Xubuntu, you need 1.5 GB of free space on your hard disk. <- from http://xubuntu.org/get
[08:43] <TheSheep> hyper_ch: because ubotu is global, for all *buntu channels
[08:44] <hyper_ch> TheSheep: well, it could add a factoid for each distro
[08:44] <zorglu_> it is possible to put stuff for your special channel tho
[08:44] <hyper_ch> zorglu_: it's 1.5 GB at least
[08:44] <zorglu_> it it explained in ubotu docs
[08:44] <TheSheep> zorglu_: then do it
[08:44] <zorglu_> #ubuntu-meeting got it for !schedule for example
[08:47] <hyper_ch> wow, ubuntulinux.nl isn't working
[08:58] <hyper_ch> anyone here proficient at CSS?
[09:09] <larry> Forgive me if this is heresy, but is there a way to get Java on Xubuntu 7.04?
[09:10] <hyper_ch> larry: sure, just install it
[09:10] <rswolff> how to I edit my $PATH variable and persist it in multiple shells
[09:10] <larry> Okay, dumb question. Do you know where I can find a faq about it?
[09:11] <hyper_ch> larry: hmmm, have you opened add/remove programs?
[09:11] <larry> yes, but when I did a search for java, nothing came up
[09:11] <hyper_ch> larry: I guess you have to enable the other repositories
[09:11] <hyper_ch> larry: multiverse I think might be it
[09:12] <larry> i'll try that. Thanks.
[09:12] <larry> Bye
[09:12] <hyper_ch> rswolff: if you alter the $PATH variable on a running system, shouldn't it then always be the new one, no matter what shell?
[09:13] <rici> hyper_ch: $PATH is an environment variable.
[09:13] <rici> it's not a system configuration
[09:13] <rswolff> hyper_ch: I used the export command to add a new directory to my path statement, but when I close the terminal, and re-open it, my edits are gone
[09:13] <hyper_ch> rici: I know... but sure you can alter it on the system
[09:14] <hajhouse> TheSheep: i think my problem with nonworking utf8 in xfce4-terminal is due to Xserver misconfiguration. the program works properly when run on the machine with the breakage over ssh -X displaying on the other machine.
[09:14] <rici> no, you can't. you can edit the shell startup command to set it
[09:14] <hyper_ch> rswolff: no clue... never played with that
[09:14] <rswolff> rici: any thoughts?
[09:14] <rici> well, that was my thought :)
[09:15] <rswolff> rici: how can I add a directory to my path variable so that it stays
[09:15] <rici> see .bashrc for example
[09:15] <rici> in your home directory
[09:15] <rswolff> rici: can I just put the export statement in .bashrc?
[09:15] <rici> yes, .bashrc is executed whenever bash starts a shell
[09:16] <rswolff> rici: what is .bash_profile?
[09:16] <rici> it's the actual file which is run.
[09:16] <rici> the first thing it does is execute .bashrc
[09:16] <rici> the bash startup sequence is a little complex.
[09:17] <rici> man bash for details, but you'll get an awful lot of them
[09:17] <rswolff> I have a generic install of xubuntu 7, and I don't see a .bash_profile
[09:17] <rswolff> rici: I had to create one manually
[09:17] <rici> did you have a .bashrc?
[09:18] <rici> the files which are put by default into a newly-created user directory are in /etc/skel
[09:19] <rswolff> rici: I did have a .bashrc
[09:19] <rici> the startup details are in man bash: /INVOCATION to find the section where they're all described
[09:20] <rici> basically, .bash_profile is used for login shells and .bashrc is used for interactive non-login shells.
[09:21] <rici> that's confusing, and generally .bash_profile does the stuff that should only be done at login, and then calls .bashrc
[09:21] <rici> so you'd usually have both, but i don't have a pristine install any more so i can't tell you what to expect.
[09:21] <rici> there are also system-wide files in /etc
[09:22] <zorglu_> just put it in .profile :)
[09:23] <rici> that works, too.
[09:23] <zorglu_> just a old bourne shell reflex :)
[09:24] <zorglu_> serious how linux has become now... im installing windows XP on a remote computer via virtual box :)
[09:24] <rswolff> zorglu_: where is .profile?
[09:24] <zorglu_> that's confort :)
[09:24] <zorglu_> rswolff: ~/.profile
[09:24] <rici> rswolff: these are all in your home directory
[09:24] <zorglu_> rswolff: or /home/rswolf/.profile
[09:25] <rswolff> zorglu_, rici: thanks
[09:25] <zorglu_> rswolff: it will be launched. dont worry about the file not being there in the first place
[09:32] <Ben_Cs> hello
[09:33] <highvoltage> hello Ben_Cs
[09:33] <Ben_Cs> what's up?
[09:37] <zorglu_> the xubuntu 7.04 cd got a VGA option on boot. is it well supported ? i just choose 800x600 and the screen seems to be a 1024x768 with me viewing only the first 800x600 :)
[09:37] <zorglu_> aka an offset of it
[09:39] <zorglu_> q. the alternate cd version got a text installer correct ?
[09:39] <zorglu_> it isnt a livecd ?
[09:39] <highvoltage> zorglu_: yep
[09:39] <zorglu_> yep to both ?
[09:39] <highvoltage> zorglu_: (it uses text-based debian-installer and is not a livecd)
[09:39] <zorglu_> ah ok thanks :)
[09:40] <highvoltage> you're welcome.
[09:42] <zorglu_> im trying to launch a terminal under the livecd, what is the name of the apps ?
[09:43] <zorglu_> not konsole, im sure :)
[09:45] <j1mc> xfce4-terminal
[09:46] <zorglu_> htanks
[09:46] <j1mc> you're welcome, zorglu_ :)
[09:47] <j1mc> i think that xterm, a more basic terminal, is also installed by default on all versions of ubuntu
[09:49] <highvoltage> yes, xterm is.
[09:49] <highvoltage> xfterm4 has better features though :)
[10:01] <Ben_Cs> anyone tried gutsy tribe 4?
[11:43] <slow-motion> n8