[01:04] <OvenWerk1> zequence: I have been testing running jackdbus from session start and using it as a back end for pulse. The only problem I have had so far is that if jackdbus crashes and a smart jack program is open, it imediately starts jackd. This breaks everything.
[01:05] <OvenWerk1> I am not, at this point sugesting we use jackdbus this way, but would like to point out that this is a problem with the way jackd2 is packaged.
[01:07] <OvenWerk1> jackdbus should be a separate package. I would suggest it come with a script called jackd  ;)  that acts as a wrapper for jackdbus.
[01:10] <OvenWerk1> I think this is a bug. I will have to bug the debian package. This is one of the things that causes people problems as even if they start jack from qjackctl at login, if something crashes jack (yes I have found some things) then jackd gets started without the user knowing. This is just bad.
[07:32] <zequence> OvenWerk1: I have suggested to Debian multimedia maintainers to separate jackd from jackdbus, and make them conflict with each other. They didn't like that
[07:32] <zequence> Or, at least one person didn't like that


[06:26]  * xnox ponders how quick xnox[m] will see this
[08:05] <Unit193> Usually a 20 minutes to an hour. :>
[13:43] <Unit193> ...Well that's super useful, mkinitramfs sets PATH to /usr/bin:/sbin:/bin while /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/zz-busybox-initramfs helpfully calls update-ca-certificates which of course is in /usr/sbin..


[00:16] <EpicCyndaquil> what's the command to lock the display in xubuntu?
[00:20] <xrdodrx> EpicCyndaquil, xflock4
[00:43] <jimrew> thank you for helping me with compiz :)
[04:06] <Alexandre_> hello
[04:07] <Alexandre_> i installed xubuntu on my notebook hp pavilion 2080
[04:07] <Alexandre_> but
[04:07] <Alexandre_> when a rebooted my pc
[04:07] <Alexandre_> it freezes on a black screen
[04:07] <Alexandre_> someone can help me?
[04:11] <Soupermanito> freezes?
[04:12] <Soupermanito> when?
[04:12] <Soupermanito> after loging in?
[04:58] <Grumpywolfe> Hi all does anybody here use gmail chat
[04:59] <xrdodrx> Grumpywolfe, occasionally
[05:00] <Grumpywolfe> well I can connect but the mic does not work in the firefox with gmail chat or pidgin
[05:00] <Grumpywolfe> but can recorde my voice
[05:00] <xrdodrx> Make sure Flash is configured properly.
[05:01] <Grumpywolfe> I did not have flash in at first will try agin
[05:03] <Grumpywolfe> have flash plugin for browser do I need a differnt one
[05:03] <xrdodrx> I don't know really, I'm sorry :/
[05:04] <xrdodrx> I only use the text chat usually lol
[05:04] <Grumpywolfe> I just tried again and no good just can hear my wife but she can not hear me
[05:06] <Grumpywolfe> no problem it was an idle
[05:06] <Grumpywolfe> I even fired up firefox in a term to see if there was any error messages but none
[05:09] <Grumpywolfe> done installing so have to reboot see ya all
[05:46] <Deathspawn> anyone know how to configure dual monitors so that it isn't the same image on both of them?
[08:04] <Sysi> Deathspawn: nvidia/ati tool or arandr
[08:46] <xeranas> morning, I need help.. i need know more about xubuntu sessions logic, can someone paste some link to explanation how it works why it so different from gnome2 ?
[08:47] <Sysi> because it's not gnome2 or ment to be it
[08:47] <Sysi> what are you having problems with?
[08:48] <xeranas> yes ie after restart 3 instance of pidgin runing
[08:49] <xeranas> not sure why, do on start it counts from autostart too (runing pidgin was saved on last seesion) so I try figure out why some programs runs muliptle instances after restart :/
[08:52] <xeranas> trying search on internet explanation about xubuntu sessions,  but no luck :/
[08:52] <Sysi> some problem with session saving, you could try rm -rf ~/.cache/sessions/ and then save session on logout
[08:52] <Sysi> if you want to save session
[08:53] <xeranas> ok I will try
[09:05] <xeranas> thx <Sysi> looks issue with pidgin fixed
[09:06] <Sysi> np
[09:14] <xeranas> now only one issue left - how to save 'Change layout option' for Keyboard Layouts.. it reset to blank after restart
[14:14] <grumpywolfe> Hi all I had some time wanted to ask if any body can help me get the mic to work in google talk
[14:28] <lostson> grumpywolfe: have you checked to see if the mic is muted ?
[14:34] <grumpywolfe> yes I have I can use sound recourder and recourd a sound but not use google talk
[14:34] <lostson> are you using pidgin or empathy ?
[14:34] <grumpywolfe> and I have tried pidgin same thing not going out
[14:35] <grumpywolfe> get a lot of feed back
[14:35] <lostson> in the plugins section for pidgin do you have voice and video settings checked and configured
[14:36] <grumpywolfe> let me check again
[14:39] <grumpywolfe> I think I do now but cant test at the moment will have to test later thanks for the info but what about firefox and google talk
[14:39] <grumpywolfe> I use it a lot to call my kids and need it
[14:40] <lostson> i have never tried it firefox
[14:41] <lostson> i use the chromium daily builds personally
[14:42] <grumpywolfe> in the sound setup i see this one is hda intel alsa mixer the other is pulse audio mixer so I need to set one for the mic
[14:45] <grumpywolfe> have to go to work see ya later thanks for your help
[14:46] <lostson> have a good day at work and your welcome
[15:33] <jm__> hello how can i change the name of a file ?
[15:38] <Sysi> right click -> rename
[15:39] <jm__> thanxx Sysi
[15:41] <jm__> but how i could rename a pendrive for example'
[15:45] <Sysi> with gparted
[15:46] <jm__> oh ok
[15:47] <jm__> thanxx
[16:26] <Sysi> what would be best FS for linux/mac-driven external hdd, hfs+ without journaling?
[16:27] <Sysi> then it would be read-only with windows.. i almost count that as plus
[16:28] <Sysi> ntfs-3g failed on mac, i don't feel like buying driver for windows filesystem to be used with mac/linux
[18:02] <Amacidia||> hows everyone doing today?
[18:03] <Amacidia||> XFCE is pretty nice.
[18:03] <Soupermanito> :D
[18:07] <PhorceP> is there an xubuntu-specific version of this? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/netboot.tar.gz
[18:07] <Soupermanito> mmm
[18:07] <Soupermanito> dont know
[18:11] <Soupermanito> wait thats the one you can use to choose pakages while installing?
[18:11] <Soupermanito> then you should be able too chose xubuntu-desktop instead of ubuntu-desktop
[18:13] <PhorceP> hmm, I can give it a shot...
[18:38] <Kurdistan> hey guys/girls.
[18:38] <Kurdistan> how is xubuntu 11.04 progressing?
[18:38] <Kurdistan> most bugs fixed?
[18:39] <xrdodrx> Kurdistan, xubuntu 11.04 has been released for about a month now :)
[18:39] <Kurdistan> xrdodrx, yes I know. Natty (Ubuntu) have been problematic.
[18:40] <xrdodrx> That all depends on your perception, I guess.
[18:40] <xrdodrx> What specific problems did you have?
[18:40] <Kurdistan> xrdodrx, I have read reviews of xubuntu natty, seems to be hit.
[18:40] <Kurdistan> maybe the best xubuntu ever?
[18:40] <xrdodrx> ?
[18:40] <xrdodrx> Kurdistan, I can't really say :)
[18:41] <xrdodrx> This is actually my first release of Xubuntu, having used Ubuntu since 6.06/dapper
[18:41] <Kurdistan> I am confused what to choose in the world of buntus
[18:41] <xrdodrx> but it works quite well with minor bugs
[18:42] <Kurdistan> xrdodrx, I use now, Ubuntu 10.10 (perfect 10 :=) ).
[18:43] <xrdodrx> well remember it's up to you if you want to upgrade
[18:43] <xrdodrx> maverick is supported for another year on the desktop
[18:43] <Kurdistan> :)  thats true
[18:44] <xrdodrx> but yeah, I'd definitely recommend xubuntu 11.04 to anyone :D
[18:44] <Kurdistan> I think I will wait to the battery-time bug will be fixed
[18:44] <Kurdistan> if it will be fixed during natty
[18:44] <xrdodrx> Kurdistan, I have that problem too :x
[18:45] <Kurdistan> xrdodrx, it is the reason why I dont make upgrade (new installation) becuase it feels to risky.
[18:45] <Kurdistan> why break something that works?
[18:45] <Kurdistan> ubuntu maverick have been fantastic so far
[18:47] <Soupermanito> :)
[18:47] <Soupermanito> if it aint broken don't fix it
[18:48] <drc> If you can't fix it, don't break it :)
[18:49] <Soupermanito> weeeell
[18:49] <Soupermanito> thats more difficult
[19:44] <jozefk> \o
[19:45] <jozefk> why can't we change the icon of a  dir in thunar? to use different icon then the default one
[19:46] <Sysi> unnecessary feature :P
[19:47] <jozefk> but I like to do it
[19:47] <jozefk> XFCE is also unnecessary
[19:47] <jozefk> we should all be happy with CLI only that's it
[19:49] <jozefk> it's not about unnecessary or not. it is not more necessary in Nautilus then in Thunar but in Nautilus it is possible to do it. no matter if it is necessary or not
[19:49] <Sysi> that's why smiley
[19:50] <Sysi> light-intended stuff usually lacks something, that's why it's light
[19:50] <jozefk> ah I see
[19:50] <jozefk> I don't think it would be to bigger with that option really
[19:51] <jozefk> no tabs no panes no nothing in Thunar :)
[19:52] <jozefk> that's already enough to make it light. I think.
[19:52] <jozefk> but this is nothing special I believe so
[19:53] <jozefk> or at least if all dirs would have the same icons. that would be better for me
[19:53] <jozefk> now I have some default dirs with default icons and if I create my own dirs I can't change their icons
[19:53] <jozefk> that sucks :)
[19:54] <Sysi> there's a file under ~/.config/ where those default folders are set, you can propably edit it
[19:54] <Sysi> dunno if it somehow could work for other directories too
[19:56] <jozefk> I found some instructions but things were missing in this version of xubuntu. don't know about previous version. I didn't use xubuntu before. even xfce almost not at all
[19:57] <Sysi> i started with xfce because i had little ram, i got more and tried gnome, it felt lacky
[19:57] <jozefk> i liked gnome2 and never had any complain about it. but I use xfce now coz I don't like gnome3 and unity
[19:58] <jozefk> and kubuntu was a little bit ugly for me
[19:58] <jozefk> other kde distros didn't worked good enough for my taste :)
[19:58] <Sysi> gnome3 isn't bad, alttab just is weird and it isn't quite made for dualscreen
[19:59] <Sysi> i have fedora kde, thinking of going back to xfce
[19:59] <Sysi> (too) familiar with it
[19:59] <jozefk> I don't like it. I tried fedora 15 live and didn't like it. gnome3 version
[20:00] <jozefk> fedora kde would be good I think but I don't know. I like xfce also
[20:00] <Sysi> nautilus is bad to, but the basic idea is great
[20:00] <Sysi> *too
[20:00] <Sysi> even if workspace setup isn't as good as with xfce
[20:00] <jozefk> dolphin is crashing too often for me. nautius is not perfect. but it works better than dolphin
[20:01] <jozefk> Thunar works the best
[20:01] <Soupermanito> i don't know
[20:01] <Sysi> dolphin has never crashed for me
[20:01] <jozefk> yes missing tabs and panes but that's not that important for me :)
[20:01] <Soupermanito> for me the last thunar has been... weird
[20:01] <Sysi> plasma/kwin has, twice
[20:01] <jozefk> dolphin is crashing for me from time to time
[20:01] <Sysi> thunar 1.2 is laggy, otherly good
[20:02] <Soupermanito> :P tabs on windows are not that useful
[20:02] <Soupermanito> or folders i mean
[20:02] <Sysi> i like my filemanager simple
[20:02] <jozefk> kde is not that stable I think. they do too much experimenting with nepomuk and other things like that
[20:02] <Soupermanito> i like my filemanagers to be two panels sides
[20:02] <Sysi> they're releasing stuff too often
[20:03] <Sysi> IMHO being able to drag multiple files is only reason to use GUI for data managment
[20:03] <jozefk> most probably. I would like kde without nepomuk. I don't even know what is that nepomuk for :D
[20:03] <Sysi> you can disable it
[20:04] <jozefk> you can but then, most probably, half of KDE will start crashing
[20:05] <Sysi> didn't do that for me..
[20:05] <Sysi> entire kde just got stuck when i had problems with memstick
[20:05] <jozefk> but I like how KDE looks like. except it was not that nice in kubuntu. xfce looks beautiful anyway :)
[20:07] <jozefk> today I format one usb flash drive with gparted to fat16 and copied two files on it. opened in win7 and it worked fine. I went to printing store to print out those files and they could not open the usb flash at all in win xp
[20:07] <Sysi> weird
[20:07] <jozefk> it was weird. I came back home and tried the flash again and it is still working fine
[20:07] <jozefk> on win and lin :)
[20:08] <Sysi> winxp..
[20:08] <jozefk> have no idea what kind of computers they are using or what they are doing
[20:08] <jozefk> yeah xp
[20:08] <Sysi> reason why i started with xubuntu, i was so full of windows xp
[20:09] <Soupermanito> fat16? why not fat32?
[20:09] <jozefk> she tried to use the flash on 3 different PCs in the store. same result
[20:09] <jozefk> I don't know why :) I just went for fat16 this time. haven't use it for long time that's why
[20:09] <jozefk> why not actually?
[20:10] <jozefk> i didn't use XP for years already
[20:10] <Soupermanito> just fat16 is old
[20:10] <Sysi> fat16 should work everywhere
[20:10] <Sysi> i had to format my stick as fat16 when i updated my bios
[20:10] <jozefk> xp fresh install + fixing the drivers + installing all apps = PITA
[20:11] <Sysi> just using xp sucks
[20:11] <Soupermanito> indeed
[20:13] <jozefk> oh yeah. I think I already mentioned here once before: when you setup your linux - it works, when you setup your windows - it start dying :)
[20:14] <Sysi> i could be really amazed with this mac, but i've seen so much obscure linux stuff this feels somewhat lame
[20:15] <Sysi> better than windows, more stable than linux..
[20:15] <Sysi> i maybe will try linux on this when they get broadcom drivers donw
[20:27] <jozefk> ibook?
[20:27] <jozefk> I used debian on ibook g4
[20:27] <jozefk> and ubuntu worked too
[20:27] <jozefk> fedora stopped supporting PPC processors
[20:28] <jozefk> i got wifi working with debian. I think with ubuntu as well
[20:28] <jozefk> mac os x is the best OS I think :)
[20:29] <Soupermanito> havent tried
[20:29] <Soupermanito> i dont like the metalic look
[20:29] <Soupermanito> also never had anything mac
[20:30] <jozefk> I used g5 ppc desktop in the office 2 years. it's great machine!
[20:31] <Sysi> i don't like look of osx very much, but can't say this would be ugly
[20:31] <jozefk> and that ibook g4 was not mine. my friend gave it to me to see if I can rescue his files from HDD. coz HDD died. os x coudn't do anything. but I got the filex back with finnix linux
[20:31] <Sysi> newest MBP 13"
[20:31] <jozefk> that's intel
[20:31] <Sysi> yup
[20:31] <Sysi> sandy bridge
[20:31] <jozefk> it should be much easier to have linux working fine on it
[20:32] <Sysi> new, closed hardware isn't easy
[20:32] <jozefk> closed hardware? they did something about hardware?\
[20:33] <Sysi> afaik they don't give too much specs, but bot sure
[20:33] <Sysi> at least broadcom is closed, no drivers at all
[20:34] <Sysi> windows drivers could work trough ndiswrapper
[20:34] <jozefk> why people use that broadcom so much?
[20:34] <jozefk> my wifi on this dell is also broadcom
[20:34] <Sysi> why not, works on propietary Oses
[20:34] <jozefk> broadcom is everywhere today
[20:35] <Sysi> i'm happy with osx and there's no possibility linux worked as well on this
[20:35] <jozefk> that's why. we are open source users. that's why
[20:35] <jozefk> ubuntu? not working?
[20:36] <Sysi> battery life will be shorter, wifi propably works worse, all little stuff
[20:38] <jozefk> I don't care about battery life. if wifi works good enough then it's ok
[20:42] <Sysi> if i didn't care i've got a pc or MBA
[22:05] <covidiu> Hi. How do I edit the menu in Xubuntu? I want to remove some of the items.
[22:09] <drc> http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu
[22:10] <covidiu> Thanks.
[22:35] <Guest1283> hello, guys, looks like i've encountered a serious bug. i made a screenshot. http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05302011-013135am.php
[22:36] <Guest1283> that happened after i switched off wireless during apt-get update
[22:36] <Guest1283> when i tried apt-get update again, that thing appeared
[22:39] <Guest1283> anybody?
[23:28] <Kurdistan> hey guys do somebody have bug-rapport only for xubuntu?
[23:29] <Kurdistan> which bugs are fixed and stil needs to take care
[23:31] <grumpywolfe> Hi all need some help trying to get what I call the gphone the google gmail phone to work I do like xubutu but need to be able to call my kids
[23:34] <Kurdistan> grumpywolfe, you can use skype
[23:34] <Kurdistan> ekiga etc
[23:34] <grumpywolfe> never tried it so not sure
[23:35] <grumpywolfe> what does it cost to call a cell phone with skype
[23:36] <Kurdistan> grumpywolfe, no idea, :) don´t use it.
[23:36] <Kurdistan> only have it installed
[23:36] <Kurdistan> are you going to call phones?
[23:36] <grumpywolfe> it connects but I can hear my wife she just cant hear me
[23:36] <Kurdistan> selfphones I mean
[23:36] <grumpywolfe> yes that is why I use gphone it is =free
[23:38] <Kurdistan> grumpywolfe, I am not familiar with does things.
[23:38] <Kurdistan> maybe it´s better you ask your question in the ubuntuforums.org?
[23:38] <grumpywolfe> it worked just fine when I had puppylinux but now I want to use xubuntu
[23:38] <Kurdistan> the official forum
[23:38] <grumpywolfe> ok will thanks
[23:39] <Kurdistan> grumpywolfe, I dont think people are awake and I am not using xubuntu 11.04 yet. :)
[23:40] <grumpywolfe> hey me I am trying to quit building my own and just have one that works and can just set and watch a few movies and read a ittle
[23:40] <Kurdistan> grumpywolfe,  for sound and mic device it is good to take a look pulseaudio
[23:42] <grumpywolfe> well when I installed sound record it changes my sound control panel so not able to get to the differnt sound options that I did have


[00:42] <johnjohn101> when can we start hearing more things about what's coming to unity?
[01:13] <dupondje> Bleh, restoring an image with partclone, and my dmesg is floowed with WRITE DMA errors :s
[01:13] <dupondje> disk seems to be fine (smartctl says at least)
[01:13] <dupondje> any other idea's ?
[05:20] <MTecknology> there's no ubuntu-dev-tools, puiparts, or diff for oneiric yet?..
[09:33] <nperry> Anyone else seeing this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1879693 ?
[16:38] <l3on> Hi all .. I'm looking for someone tests a merge ...
[16:39] <l3on> Would someone do it ? :)
[16:45] <m4n1sh> l3on: does it target precise?
[16:46] <l3on> yep
[16:46] <m4n1sh> package name?
[16:46] <l3on> gnome-phone-manager
[16:46] <l3on> wait, it's not in ubuntu.package yet
[16:46] <m4n1sh> is it in universe repo?
[16:46] <m4n1sh> means it is a new package?
[16:46] <l3on> no ...
[16:46] <l3on> I mean that I can't check if it's installable or not
[16:46] <l3on> :/
[16:47] <l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/gnome-phone-manager_0.68-1ubuntu1/gnome-phone-manager_0.68-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[16:47] <l3on> could you test it please?
[16:47] <m4n1sh> then you should goto #ubuntu-motu
[16:47] <m4n1sh> it is a channel for universe archive maintainers
[16:47] <l3on> I'm coming from that
[16:47] <l3on> I know, I just want say if it's installable and runnable... that's all :)
[16:48] <m4n1sh> l3on: It will take some time for me to download it
[16:48] <l3on> s/say/know
[16:48] <m4n1sh> I am on EDGE connection. (tethered)
[16:54] <l3on> m4n1sh, let me know :)
[16:55] <m4n1sh> l3on: it says an old version is already present in archives
[16:55] <m4n1sh> this is a newer version
[16:56] <l3on> Can you install it ?
[16:56] <l3on> and what you mean exactly :P
[16:56] <m4n1sh> in progress
[16:57] <m4n1sh> using USC
[16:57] <m4n1sh> it is still installing
[16:57] <m4n1sh> taking lot of time
[16:57] <bjsnider> suspense is killing me
[16:58] <l3on> you should learn dpkg cli :P
[16:58] <l3on> bjsnider, :)
[16:58] <bjsnider> i know it already
[16:59] <m4n1sh> got this message
[16:59] <m4n1sh> Bluetooth-CRITICAL **: bluetooth_chooser_button_set_property: assertion `str == NULL || bluetooth_verify_address (str)' failed
[16:59] <m4n1sh> ** Message: New connection device is empty (not changed)
[16:59] <m4n1sh> ** Message: New connection device is empty (not changed)
[16:59] <m4n1sh> ** Message: No device!
[16:59] <m4n1sh> ** Message: Exiting connect thread
[16:59] <m4n1sh> so it needs bluetooth pairing
[16:59] <m4n1sh> :(
[17:00] <m4n1sh> bluetooth does not work on my laptop anymore
[17:00] <bjsnider> it killed bluetooth?
[17:03] <l3on> OK, so it's installable but not runnable ? :)
[17:03] <l3on> bjsnider, could you try too ?
[17:03] <bjsnider> no
[17:05] <l3on> m4n1sh, :)
[17:06]  * penguin42 wonders what that's the password for


[00:00] <Sir_Andrei> Hmm, VGA compatible controller, Intel Corporation Atom Processor D4xx, bla bla bla, Kernel driver in use: i915
[00:01] <wxl> Sir_Andrei: is xserver-xorg-video-intel installed? (apt-cache policy)
[00:04] <Sir_Andrei> With apt-cache policy im getting repository list at output
[00:04] <Sir_Andrei> Nothing about xserver.., well, ill try to install that package, ill realize if it is installed or not xD
[00:04] <Sir_Andrei> Hmm, it is not :o
[00:05] <wxl> yeah that might help
[00:05] <wxl> you might want to
[00:05] <wxl> "me too" this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/+bug/1575460
[00:05] <wxl> and also comment if that does fix the problem
[00:06] <Sir_Andrei> Hey man, it worked!
[00:06] <Sir_Andrei> You deserve a f**cking beer
[00:07] <wxl> i don't drink but i appreciate the thought :)
[00:07] <Sir_Andrei> Ill post in launchpad
[00:07] <wxl> thanks!
[04:44] <feneco> hi
[04:46] <feneco> after I used exit command on one tty1, and changed to tty2, everything stopped working, keyboard, mouse, but the system was running
[04:46] <feneco> in tty2
[04:46] <feneco> what to do in these cases?
[04:47] <feneco> only thing i could think was hard reboot
[18:28] <n-iCe> hi
[19:42] <z121231211> I'm using ibus and Lubuntu 14.04 and was wondering if there was a way to stop the cursor from disappearing when typing. I can't find a solution on google, but I may not be googling the right thing.


[21:29] <Jnzer> hi im new  with ubuntu  studio  is agood  change  im was a working  with slklackware 14
[21:33] <zequence> Jnzer: Welcome to the club
[21:33] <sSs> yeah slackware isnt really ment for studio production
[21:34] <zequence> Jnzer: 13.04 might actually be worth checking out already. Less buggy jack, and integration with PA is easier
[21:35] <zequence> Switching to Thunar, and a few new preinstalled apps
[21:36] <zequence> PA just became version 3.0, and might suffer from bugs, and there are probably other desktop related problems (still Alpha), but on the whole, I feel it's better than 12.04 and 12.10 right now
[22:32] <sirriffsalot> Is there by any chance a free ebook or suchlike on studio engineering and or mixing? :)
[22:42] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Haven't heard of one, but there's a lot of tutorials here and there, articles and such, on all kinds of things
[22:43] <sirriffsalot> zequence: yeeah.. I guess, I just hate reading popsicles here and there.. I'd love to have it all from start to finish in one package. More thought behind it :)
[22:44] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Most of it is learning by doing, and listening
[22:45] <zequence> But, I guess some good theory is nice to have too
[22:45] <zequence> I went to the library myself at one point
[22:45] <sirriffsalot> zequence: Yeah, trying to combine both. My ears are pretty decent, I hardly know any music theory compared to teachers in it, hehe
[22:45] <sirriffsalot> zequence: get much out of it?
[22:45] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Only the basics
[22:45] <sirriffsalot> Hehe
[22:46] <zequence> Knowing how a compressor works is probably good
[22:47] <zequence> And having some idea of frequency range. What we hear, what is interesting to hear, and what frequencies are interesting on different instruments
[22:48] <sirriffsalot> zequence: knowing how a compressor work.. in user-mode or the whole shabang? From code to output?
[22:49] <zequence> Was anyone aware of ISO 27002 being the standard for "principle of least privilege".This is the shit I have to learn for the A+ exam
[22:50] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Just what all the parameters do
[22:50] <sirriffsalot> zequence: whew.. scared me for a moment :)
[22:51] <sirriffsalot> zequence: I've tried getting interested in programming and code.. But it just doesn't stick. The best I can get out of it is making scripts for my own convenience hehe
[22:52] <zequence> When a customer tells you your co-worker has done something wrong, what do you do? Talk to him about it, or tell the boss?
[22:53] <zequence> Tell the boss of course! (if you want to pass the A+ exam)
[22:55] <sSs> well the official answer is to tell the boss.   but real world VS. by the book has always been a tightrope
[22:55] <zequence> I just find it hilarious that they put stuff like that into a computer certificate test
[22:56] <zequence> There's stuff about US laws too, which seems ridiculous to learn, if you aren't living in US
[22:56] <zequence> Plus some of the info is plain wrong
[22:56] <zequence> Some of the things they say are even crazy
[22:57] <sSs> its the A+.. you cant take it too seriously
[22:58] <sSs> i could have passed the A+ in the 6th grade b4 i even owned a computer
[22:58] <zequence> First thing to do when you're having problems on a Windows machine - reboot! If the problem doesn't appear again after reboot, the problem is solved (yeah, right)
[23:00] <zequence> sSs: You can't answer correctly on some of the questions, unless you read the book, really carefully. Why? Cause the answer they want is not always the right one
[23:01] <sSs> real world VS. by the book
[23:03] <zequence> I actually think it might be a benefit having a lower IQ level, in order to pass this test more easily
[23:05] <sSs> and sometimes the book is wrong. i remember my Net+ book stating that the 568-a order was Blue Orange Green Brown
[23:05] <zequence> That's what I'm reading next
[23:06] <zequence> Probably Security+ too. Definately Linux+ and whatever Linux certs I get to do
[23:06] <sSs> definately Sec+. Net+ and Sec+ are actually important. A+ is just a nice to have
[23:07] <zequence> I'm studying as a part of an individually paced unemployment education. The certs are free, and during this one year I can take as many as I'm able
[23:07] <sSs> oh wow...
[23:07] <sSs> you lucky bastige
[23:07] <zequence> Sweden, baby
[23:07] <zequence> :P
[23:07] <sSs> by the time i was ready to take all my certs, i was out of money
[23:08] <zequence> If I had to pay for them, I'd not go through with it
[23:08] <zequence> There is building up more interest for Linux hackers recently, so certs might not always be needed
[23:08] <zequence> At least that's the impression I get
[23:08] <sSs> well CISSP is definitely worth the money.   and you can get the training from your public library (or the net)
[23:09] <zequence> Is that Cisco?
[23:09] <sSs> knowing linux is the difference between minumum wage and high paying career
[23:09] <zequence> I'm probably going to do some Cisco too
[23:09] <sSs> Certified Information Systems Security Professional (TIA i think)
[23:09] <sSs> Cisco is too expensive if your paying for it. and not a lifetime ccert
[23:10] <zequence> There are loads of Cisco certs. I can do a few, but only the basic ones I guess
[23:11] <zequence> I'm going to try get one down each month at least
[23:12] <zequence> I was a little bit lucky to get this opportunity though. The competition was pretty fierce, and they didn't only pick people by competence
[23:12] <zequence> I sort of talked myself into it
[23:13] <zequence> CISSP seems to require quite a bit of past work experience, so if that's right, that would not be possible for me
[23:14] <zequence> The common ones I see in ads are the MS ones. Server certs, Exchange, Actice Directory..
[23:14] <sSs> ? no? i got CISSP when i was a teenager with only a GED
[23:14] <sSs> oh
[23:14] <zequence> https://www.isc2.org/cissp-how-to-certify.aspx
[23:15] <sSs> well right now all the money is in programming and security. everything else is few and far between and requires exp
[23:16] <sSs> oh well i guess i got my CISSP cuz i attended a diploma mill
[23:17] <zequence> https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/2/21/228
[23:18] <sSs> such a professional..
[23:27] <zequence> Some box to get their agressions out
[23:27] <zequence> Not Linus


[00:08] <cjwatson> sladen: they are not allowed. use .tar.gz
[00:14] <sladen> cjwatson: this is for the .deb, not the .orig  Using dh_builddeb -- -Z lzma  is saving ~50%
[00:15] <sladen> cjwatson: or is it just  gz and bzip2  allowed for .debs in the archive
[00:15] <RAOF> sladen: I'm pretty sure mesa is already lzma compressed, which would suggest that it's OK.  Check it out?
[00:16] <cjwatson> sladen: oh, well then those have been allowed for ages with a suitable Pre-Depends
[00:17] <cjwatson> namely dpkg (>= 1.14.12ubuntu3)
[00:33] <calc> cjwatson: pre-depends not needed anymore as of lp 2.2.3
[00:34] <cjwatson> ok
[00:35] <calc> sladen: you should be able to just upload lzma compressed debs without doing anything else special now
[00:35] <calc> sladen: up until ~ april 1 you had to have a pre-depends
[00:36] <hyperair> lzma compressed debs? as in data.tar.gz replaced with data.tar.lzma or something?
[00:36] <cjwatson> yes.
[00:36] <cjwatson> it makes sense for some particularly large packages
[00:36] <calc> hyperair: its been supported since gutsy (iirc)
[00:37] <hyperair> i see.
[00:37] <hyperair> so how come it never really took off?
[00:37] <calc> or maybe it was hardy, i can't recall
[00:37] <calc> hyperair: big things use it already such as OOo
[00:37] <hyperair> i see
[00:37] <sladen> cjwatson: ta.  (And I'm a great fan of Pre-Dpedns for funky compression methods, so I'll add it ;-)
[00:37] <hyperair> but how do you trigger it building as lzma instead of gz?
[00:37] <calc> i was discussing with Keybuk about potentially making it the default for dpkg for karmic, but not sure that it is that helpful without also having lzma for squashfs
[00:38] <cjwatson> dh_builddeb -- -Zlzma
[00:38] <cjwatson> calc: I don't think that's suitable
[00:38] <hyperair> aah
[00:38] <cjwatson> I would advise against such a change
[00:38] <calc> cjwatson: too slow for desktop cd or something else?
[00:38] <calc> aiui novell already does it by default for rpm (not saying that it is a reason to do it though)
[00:39] <cjwatson> I'm very concerned about the behaviour on low-memory systems
[00:39] <cjwatson> and am strongly inclined to veto this
[00:39] <calc> ok
[00:39] <calc> how low do we support as far as low-mem is concerned?
[00:40] <cjwatson> for installation, at least down as far as 64MB; lower is manageable but it gets slow due to localedef
[00:40] <calc> iirc it uses ~ 30MB to decompress, so it is valid if we support very low-mem situations i suppose
[00:40] <calc> wow i didn't realize we supported that low
[00:41] <cjwatson> obviously you can't run a standard Ubuntu desktop on that (hence why I'm not worried about OOo using data.tar.lzma) but there are other valid use cases using the Ubuntu archive that aren't a full desktop
[00:41] <calc> yea
[00:41] <cjwatson> I'm pretty sure I raised the same concern a while back
[00:42] <cjwatson> I do think lzma has been great for getting us some much-needed space on the alternate CD in particular targeted areas, and I'm very grateful for that
[00:42] <calc> i think in the past when i had talked to you it was more an issue of low-mem ~ 256MB machines installing via the desktop cd, or something to that effect
[00:42] <cjwatson> but I think we should leave it at that rather than pushing it too far
[00:42] <calc> yea thats fine
[00:42] <cjwatson> memory is an issue on desktop CD installs too, certainly
[00:43] <cjwatson> we've found it difficult to hold it to 256MB
[00:43] <calc> luckily we have the install without booting into desktop option as well
[00:43] <calc> which i imagine takes a lot less than 256MB
[00:43] <cjwatson> the desktop CD is a situation where noticeably more memory can be used during installation than is required for the installed system, which I regard as a fairly major problem
[00:43] <cjwatson> it's not that much less, unfortunately
[00:44] <cjwatson> I think it's still clear, but not comfortably so
[00:44] <calc> cjwatson: someone had requested an option for a gui netinst, would that lower the requirements without having to fall all the way back to ncurses?
[00:44] <cjwatson> yes, to some extent
[00:44] <calc> cjwatson: from what i can see debian has that and it only takes ~ 15MB for a netinst cd with gui
[00:45] <cjwatson> we will be doing that once a current version of GTK gets fixed to be able to support the directfb backend again
[00:45] <cjwatson> (Debian unstable has run into the exact same problem; it isn't just us)
[00:45] <TheMuso> /c/c
[00:45] <calc> of course it takes more than that in ram to run it, but probably less than the current desktop cd direct install method
[00:45] <calc> cjwatson: ah i see :)
[00:46] <cjwatson> it's not a replacement for ubiquity; it's (largely) a straight translation of the current d-i dialogs into GTK
[00:46] <infinity> cjwatson: Another ubuntu-autotest run is in progress, BTW (just kicked off), if you want to watch the list.
[00:46] <cjwatson> which is serviceable, but it isn't a by-hand designed interface. I expect we'll need to put quite a bit of work into some areas
[00:46] <infinity> cjwatson: Seeing as how the attempt to do the same with soyuz seemed to go unpleasantly.
[00:47] <cjwatson> calc: (I was one of the developers who put a lot of time into the GTK installer in Debian, so I'm reasonably familiar with it ;-) )
[00:47] <calc> cjwatson: isn't the alternate cd d-i also?
[00:48] <cjwatson> though I didn't do the final stretch, just a good deal of the early underpinnings - there was a time when I was about the only person working on it
[00:48] <cjwatson> calc: yes
[00:48] <cjwatson> infinity: ok
[00:48] <calc> cjwatson: so its different than the current desktop installer but a nicer looking version of what we currently use in the alternate cd
[00:49] <cjwatson> calc: it's just dropping in a different debconf frontend, basically
[00:49] <calc> hmm we'd have to put that on the alternate cd as a gui installer then, since the desktop cd isn't done in a manner that d-i knows how to install from, aiui?
[00:49] <cjwatson> that's correct. More realistically, the server CD
[00:49] <calc> ok
[00:50] <cjwatson> (since the server CD has quite a bit of spare space but the alternate is usually kind of tight)
[00:51] <calc> ok
[00:51] <calc> or just lzma a package or two and then we have space on the alternate cd again ;-)
[00:51] <cjwatson> also, the corporate services guys are actually pushing for this
[00:52]  * calc has to run buy groceries but will be back ~ 1hr
[00:52] <TheMuso> Some of the other UbuntuStudio devs have also expressed an interest in using the GTK d-i for the studio disks.
[00:53] <cjwatson> right
[00:53] <cjwatson> I did try to do it for jaunty but the aforementioned GTK problems shot it down
[00:53] <TheMuso> Yep
[00:54] <TheMuso> A11y wise, I don't care about GTK d-i, since the Ubuntu desktop CD's installer is accessible enough to be usable now.
[01:01] <ikus060> I made a modification in the kernel source code. Now I wan to test this modification but before I need to compile the kernel
[01:02] <ikus060> Can someone refer me so some documentation ?
[01:03] <sladen> cjwatson: I'm a believer in sticking to .gz for base packages.   But what's your view on alternate compressors ("advancecomp" et al) that can get another 15% out of the deflate stream by trying harder
[01:05] <ikus060> In fact, I thikn I only need to compile one part of the kernel : hid
[01:07] <cjwatson> sladen: IME we are at the point where other strategies for saving space, such as working on more efficient representations and shipping of translated documentation, represent much better bang for our buck
[01:10] <infinity> cjwatson: I say we just remove libx11 and anything that depends on it, and see how that works out.
[01:10] <bryce> infinity: wow, that could save me a lot of work
[01:11] <infinity> bryce: See?  I'm a giver.
[01:17] <cjwatson> kees: do you know what happened to the sudo patch I'm sure we used to have that passed through all environment variables if sudoers says you can run whatever command you like?
[01:22] <cjwatson> kees: are we supposed to just use sudo -E now? (This comes up because libgksu never passes sudo -E.)
[01:50] <kb9vqf> I'm working on remastering a LiveCD, and I have a CD that works with i386 but when I generate the amd64 version it fails right as the graphical boot menu is displayed.  Any ideas why this happens?
[01:50] <kb9vqf> Or who might know? ;-)
[01:54] <ArneGoetje> slangasek: hmm.. I thought pitti fixed that already... will check.
[01:57] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: ah; the new ones still show up in component-mismatches
[02:27] <javito> hi
[02:29] <javito> i am reading in debian-policy website that the latest version is <IP_ADDRESS>.... but what should i use in my debian/control file  <IP_ADDRESS>  or 3.8.1 ??
[02:30] <cjwatson> javito: you should read the part of the policy manual that covers the Standards-Version field
[02:30] <cjwatson> javito: section 5.6.11
[02:32] <javito> cjwatson: thanks
[02:32] <javito> is very clear here
[02:33] <tedg> Heh, the Debian Policy manual is so complete that the answer to the question "I'm reading the manual and don't understand, what do I do?" is "Read the manual" :)
[02:35] <cjwatson> it's comprehensive enough that it's understandable for people to get lost until they've made enough use of it to have a general feel for where to find things
[02:36] <calc> iirc one of the first things you are supposed to do before applying as a DD is to read the entire policy manual :)
[02:37] <calc> and be able to recite the dfsg backwards ;-)
[02:37]  * tedg tried to be in AA but couldn't remember all 12 steps ;)
[03:10] <jmillikin> If "Sebastien Bacher" is present: Can you take a quick peek at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/357438>? It's a small bug with a simple fix, but would be great to get into one of the -ubuntuX patchsets for Nautilus before Jaunty final. Apologies in advance for the drive-by patch/question, but my connection time is limited.
[03:11] <jmillikin> If you see this, thanks!
[03:11] <jdong> quick drive-by :)
[03:12] <javito> when will be allow upload bugfix to karmic?
[03:13] <sladen> well, you can upload bugfixes to jaunty
[03:13] <javito> including minor bugs?
[03:13] <sladen> but new versions, and new packages, and new features need to wait until karmic opens (~6 weeks)
[03:14] <sladen> javito: if it helps the quality of the release, yes
[03:14] <javito> but a bugfix impleis increase the version
[03:15] <sladen> javito: increasing the -0ubuntuX package version, yes
[03:15] <javito> ok then thanks
[03:15] <sladen> javito: to get a new upstream release in, it has to be a bugfix only release
[03:16] <javito> sorry for my stupid questions i'm really newbie here :D
[03:16] <sladen> javito: yeah, if nobody was allowed to fix bugs and nobody allowed to upload, we might as well have released a month ago... :)
[03:17] <javito> sladen: maybe only for critical bugs, like in stable debian
[03:17] <javito> since frozen
[03:17] <javito> it just why i asked
[03:18] <sladen> javito: post-release, you need a stable-release-update exception (eg. a security issue)
[03:18] <kees> cjwatson: I think pitti removed most of it, but kept a whitelist for things like http_proxy, but beyond that I don't remember.
[03:19] <kees> cjwatson: though, recently, I was pretty sure that environment was passed unfiltered if one was in sudoers with an "ALL".
[03:25] <Hobbsee> hrm.  How does one not use these new notifications for just pidgin...
[03:25] <sladen> Hobbsee: irssi :)
[03:26] <Hobbsee> i do like it for things that are actual "doesn't matter if you miss them" notifications, but for pidgin, it means that i miss the notifications, and there's absolutely *no* indication that someone's sent me a reply to a message.  And i'm not convinced that the notifications actually fire every time, at all.  Fail.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> sladen: i guess I could use bitlbee and konversation, yes.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> sladen: irssi, if i use the notifier, is goign to have exactly the same problem, on a bigger scale?
[03:27] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: there was discussion about irssi and notifications here yesterday, I can't remember the result of that conversation however.
[03:27] <sladen> Hobbsee: somebody (look for the logs) was discussing something similar earlier.   Ah, TheMuso has beaten me to it
[03:28] <sladen> s/look/lookings/
[03:28] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i get the feeling that the more i send thru the notifier, the more messages i'll only see hours later when i happen to manually open up the window again, though
[03:28] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: I don't know how the notification works, since I don't use it.
[03:28] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: ah
[03:29] <Hobbsee> sladen: i'll do that, but i suspect that'd make my problem worse again
[03:29] <sladen> Hobbsee: IIRC, libnotify is "replaced" by the new back end so everything is gets diverted to /dev/null (well, a 3 second pop-up, then /dev/null)
[03:30] <Hobbsee> sladen: damn.  that's *exactly* what i'm trying to avoid.
[03:30] <Hobbsee> sladen: and i'm really not convinced that the popups work all the time, either
[03:31] <sladen> Hobbsee: probably what will happen is that the pidgin authors will get pissed off, and switch to their own internal notification system, skipping the "standard" as it doesn't do what they want
[03:31] <Hobbsee> sladen: heh. That sounds about right.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> hrm, I guess i could switch to kopete or something
[03:32] <Hobbsee> which should bypass the new notifier stuff
[03:33] <sladen> you can do other mad setups, like irssi-proxy  (irssi, but it also listens on a port and passes everything through so that you can daisy chain to another IRC client)
[03:33] <Hobbsee> that's true.  I'm already doing funky things with proxies.
[03:33] <Hobbsee> but that's not a bad idea
[03:34] <sladen> if daisy chaining worked /really well/ you could have a IRC "client" that did nothing but display flashing notifications
[03:34] <sladen> I don't really have a solution (as it's not a use-case I've hit and had to work around yet)
[03:35] <Hobbsee> the irc isn't really the problem - konversation doesn't (and probably won't) use the new notifications for this release.  It's only the other protocols.
[03:35] <sladen> perhaps the long term key is to modify the funky new libnotify backend, to be ware of state
[03:36] <Hobbsee> mmm
[03:36] <sladen> eg. is the screen-saver running, is there keyboard/mouse activity, is there a full screen movie
[03:37] <sladen> what's that four-quardrant system for prioritising?    There's two axis, one is urgency and the other is importance
[03:38] <sladen> so it could be less urgent than watching the full screen movie, but important enough to save until later
[03:38] <Hobbsee> true
[03:39] <sladen> Hobbsee: anyway, we probably know who to blame for the new design if it gets panned post-release ;-)
[03:39] <Hobbsee> sladen: hmmm?
[03:45] <sladen> Hobbsee: the same person who brought us nekkid desktop wallpaper!
[03:46] <sladen> I suspect the new notifier will end up covering 90% of use-cases better than it did before, but leave an empty space for the other 10%
[03:46] <Hobbsee> ah, right
[03:46] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[03:47] <Hobbsee> although I personally think "give me some obvious notification that i've received a message over msn / jabber / etc via pidgin, after the fact" would be a fairly large use case for pidgin...
[03:48] <Hobbsee> Ah well.  I'm sure the notification team will decide how to do it best, and if they don't, debian will get a lot more people.
[03:49]  * Hobbsee goes off to research how to make pidgin behave more sensible
[03:49] <Hobbsee> er, sensibly
[03:49] <jcastro> Hobbsee: the messaging-indicator is where the missed notifications get queued up
[03:49] <Hobbsee> jcastro: except that it doesn't work.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> jcastro: they never show up there
[03:49] <jcastro> that's a bug then
[03:50] <Hobbsee> sorry, the ones about the fact that someone's signed in do, but not the ones that say i've received a message.
[03:50] <jcastro> only the messages are supposed to queue up in there
[03:50] <jcastro> not like, when people sign in and stuff
[03:50] <Hobbsee> and speaking of that, i'm not so crash hot on having to have *two* icons on my panel about it, or having to keep pidgin open, because otherwise pidgin quits.
[03:51] <Hobbsee> if only it worked...When's the ETA on getting a fix?
[03:51] <jcastro> there should just be one icon, the little envelope for the messaging indicator
[03:51] <jcastro> dunno, mine works, maybe ask in #dx?
[03:51] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  might have to ask later when they're awake
[03:52] <sladen> jcastro: so unread IM/email messages are hiding until the envelope, until you click it, and then they /are/ being shown?
[03:53] <jcastro> right
[03:53] <Hobbsee> sladen: that would make sense.
[03:53] <jcastro> when there are new ones in there there's a green dot on the envelope
[03:53] <jcastro> so basically, instead of a pidgin icon, a new evo mail icon, etc. you just have them all under one icon
[03:54] <jcastro> which also btw brings the contact list up for pidgin
[03:54] <Amaranth> I thought empathy got ported as well
[03:54] <jcastro> right
[03:55] <Amaranth> I never thought notifications would be the reason Ubuntu started maintaining a large number of deltas from upstream
[03:55] <jcastro> alot are accepting them
[03:55] <jcastro> though I don't have statistics on that
[03:56] <Amaranth> Sure, if it's just "cleanup your usage to check for features" and stuff like that
[03:56] <Amaranth> or "use append mode"
[03:59] <sladen> yeah, it missed the first /msg  but saw the second and third
[03:59] <sladen> and gives me an exploding envelope
[04:02] <sladen> well, that'd be pidgin crashing
[04:07] <sladen> Hmm, the option is called "Shutdown..." but the action is immediate (so should not have the ...)
[04:37] <calc> is there a reason that arrow keys don't work in insert mode in vim, i seem to recall this used to work at some point
[04:37] <calc> but not i just inserts a new line with eg "B:
[04:37] <calc> er "B"
[04:44] <Hobbsee> jcastro: hrm.  It appears that my existing config was making it not behave properly.  Has the dx team tested with previous release configs, instead of clean slates?
[04:44] <jcastro> Hobbsee: not sure, that is a good point though
[04:44] <Hobbsee> ah, but the minimise to tray functionality isn't there.  dammit.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> or the minimise to anything, really
[04:45] <Hobbsee> jcastro: did you find a way around that?
[04:48] <Hobbsee> at least i get the right things in the envelope now!
[04:57] <spm> calc: wfm. my fading memory suggests that tends to be caused by a zotted or simply wrong TERM - eg should be xtermc, is set to sun-console :-/ I think terminals can also get into a gaga state as well, and need resetting.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> ah, that would be https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/295713
[04:58] <Hobbsee> hrm.  can one assign things to the dx team, i wonder....
[05:07] <Hobbsee> sladen: out of curiousity, which gnome theme are you using?
[05:08] <calc> spm: hmm gnome-terminal sets it to xterm, if i change it to linux it seems to work
[05:09] <calc> actually no i just tested in the wrong spot
[05:10] <calc> it seems the place it is happening is set to TERM="screen"
[05:10] <calc> for screen console program
[05:13] <infinity> calc: Under screen, it's "TERM=screen" for you?
[05:13] <infinity> calc: I get "TERM=screen.linux"...
[05:30] <calc> infinity: yea
[05:30] <calc> infinity: shows up as just TERM=screen for me
[05:46] <TomJaeger> Any chance someone can commit the .debdiff attached to bug #311732?
[05:46] <TomJaeger> Thinkfinger is completely broken atm
[05:57] <sladen> Hobbsee: *boggle*.  Human, I guess.  I try and stick with the defaults (assuming the default theme hasn't changed)
[05:57] <Hobbsee> sladen: hm, OK
[05:58] <sladen> Hobbsee: I did have some problem recently whereby all the fonts were too big, until you went System->Settings->Appearance.  Didn't have to click anything but that was enough to fix the fonts to the correct size
[05:59]  * Hobbsee nods
[05:59] <ajmitch> gnome-settings-daemon not being started properly on login?
[06:05] <TomJaeger> Keybuk, do you think you could have a look at the patch?
[08:06] <maxb> sladen: I have noticed this immediate shutdown thing too - *intermittently* !
[08:29] <htrejh> hi
[08:30] <htrejh> i tried to create a deb package and it worked, but my program doesn't have any files in /bin for example and it created and packaged empty directories, how can i remove thatN
[08:31] <directhex> fix your package's .install file?
[08:31] <directhex> also, packages don't go into /bin they go into /usr/bin
[08:32] <htrejh> .install file?
[08:33] <highvoltage> dade
[08:33] <htrejh> i do not have any .install file
[08:34] <highvoltage> he probably meant debian/install file
[08:34] <htrejh> emacsen-install?
[08:35] <directhex> htrejh, in your debian/ folder in your source package, the install file (or pkgname.install for multi-package source packages) lists the actual files to include in the package
[08:35] <htrejh> strange i do not have this file
[08:35] <highvoltage> you have to create it
[08:35] <htrejh> k
[08:35] <directhex> and you have no files either. go figure
[08:35] <htrejh> are there any sample files?
[08:37] <directhex> which packaging helper does your package use?
[08:38] <htrejh> dh_make
[08:38] <htrejh> but i found, there were plenty ex files generated :)
[08:39] <directhex> so plain dh.
[08:39] <directhex> which compat version?
[08:40] <htrejh> 7
[08:41] <directhex> are you using minimal-style rules?
[08:42] <htrejh> hm
[08:42] <htrejh> dunno
[08:42] <directhex> does your rules file contain a bunch of dh_this dh_that dh_other, or a couple of "dh $@"?
[08:43] <directhex> http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-cli-libs/packages/gtk-sharp2/trunk/debian/rules?revision=3937&view=markup is old-style full rules, http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-cli-libs/packages/smartirc4net/trunk/debian/rules?revision=4049&view=markup is dh7 minimal rules
[08:43] <htrejh> a bunch of...
[08:43] <htrejh> it's the first one
[08:44] <directhex> right. is dh_install called in your binary(arch|indep) rule?
[08:46] <htrejh> hm no, it is commented
[08:48] <directhex> dh_install is the rule that actually, well, installs files generated by the build into a deb. it uses the debian/install file as a manifest
[08:48] <directhex> http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-cli-libs/packages/smartirc4net/trunk/debian/libsmartirc4net0.4-cil.install?revision=3806&view=markup is a little example
[08:49] <htrejh> euhm
[08:50] <htrejh> so i must uncomment it right?
[08:50] <directhex> right.
[08:50] <htrejh> ok, thanks
[08:55] <htrejh> but i still have the empty dirs :s
[09:01] <lyhana8> hi, how could I change the mysql user ID correctly ?
[09:01] <lyhana8> actually I change it manually in /etc/passwd and /etc/group and now the server refuse to start
[09:02] <Hobbsee> lyhana8: #ubuntu for support please.
[09:03] <lyhana8> Hobbsee: I come from there, they have no idea. Plus it's a high config issue
[09:05] <lyhana8> I'm trying to share a mysql DB among a gentoo and an ubunutu. User ID change and file permissions change work fine on gentoo, but not on ubuntu
[09:05] <Nafallo> lyhana8: no it isn't. and that doesn't make this channel a good forum for support. you could try #ubuntu-server or any of the local community channels please.
[09:05] <Hobbsee> -server's not a support channel either for non-server stuff, actually.
[09:05] <Hobbsee> lyhana8: a simple google search finds http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=109752 which appears to be appropriate.
[09:05] <Hobbsee> But please note, this really isn't the appropriate channel.
[09:05] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: well, I found running mysqld as a user a bit strange ;-)
[09:06] <lyhana8> Hobbsee: thanks
[09:06] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: it does?
[09:06] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: I meant. mysqld on a non-server. sorry :-)
[09:06] <Hobbsee> oh, right
[09:06] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: but yea. you're right. I was jumping to conclusions :-)
[09:14] <htrejh> can someone explain why i get those empty dirs packaged?
[09:24] <kb9vqf> htrejh: do you have a dirs file in your debian/ folder
[09:24] <htrejh> yes, i just removed it, will try again :)
[09:25] <kb9vqf> htrejh: that was most likely your problem.  I ran into this once or twice myself :)
[09:25] <kb9vqf> good luck!
[09:25] <htrejh> ok thanks :)
[09:42] <siretart`> persia: are you still working on bug #349458?
[09:49] <mvo> Riddell: is the disappearing dbus/mainloop/qt.so still a issue with current intrepid->jaunty upgrades? I just ran anohter test upgrade and its still there, I suspect its a particular package that triggers it (and that I do not have installed)
[10:21] <Nafallo> damn :-/
[10:21] <Nafallo> my X just crashed after a VT switch again
[10:23] <mnemo> nafallo: which chipset? any stacktrace at the end of xorg.log.old?
[10:23] <Nafallo> /var/log/gdm/\:0.log.1
[10:23] <Nafallo> will put it on a pastebin.
[10:24] <Nafallo> once my firefox stop crashing...
[10:26] <Nafallo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/146805/ <-- 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 0c)
[10:27] <savvas> Nafallo: for firefox crashes, try to create a new user - this will definitely sort it if it's a local /home/ problem in the configuration :)
[10:28] <Nafallo> savvas: yeah. I know. I reckon it's one of the newly updated plugins. just hard to catch.
[10:28] <Nafallo> also, a new user won't have my stored passwords, so a no go.
[10:29] <savvas> there's a plugin for that
[10:29] <savvas> password exporter
[10:30]  * Nafallo shrugs.
[10:30] <Nafallo> still not the issue :-)
[10:30] <savvas> :P
[10:30] <Nafallo> I'm pretty sure it's a plugin considering it started happening right after I upgraded vimperator ;-)
[10:30] <Ng> safe mode
[10:31] <savvas> well, if you ever consider on recreating a new .mozilla directory: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2848
[10:31] <Nafallo> anyway. my bigger issue is X ;-)
[10:57] <cjwatson> mvo,seb128: does the libgksu patch I attached to bug 357101 look OK to you?
[11:23] <tjaalton> is anyone going through sync requests anymore?
[11:27] <seb128> tjaalton: yes, archive admins
[11:34] <tjaalton> seb128: ok, good
[11:40] <kwwii> evand: it seems we need to work on the time zone map some more...two problems: 1) the pics are scaled up during a "real" install and 2) the text is black and the background too dark for that
[11:40] <evand1> kwwii: by being scaled up do you mean that they're scaled to be greater than their original resolution?  If so I believe cjwatson fixed that.
[11:41] <evand1> and indeed on the text.  Did you have a better color in mind?  It's quite easy to change.
[11:41] <kwwii> evand1: yes, exactly...the pics show up blurry because of it
[11:41] <kwwii> evand1: yeah, I'm talking to others about it and I'll get back to you
[11:41] <kwwii> evand1: thanks
[11:42] <evand1> kwwii: sure thing
[11:46] <cjwatson> evand: I didn't do anything about that
[11:47] <cjwatson> evand,kwwii: the change I made (relatively recently) was to prevent the images being unnecessarily scaled down from their original resolution when the screen is big enough to comfortably accommodate the full sizes
[11:47] <cjwatson> the map is fiddly to use when scaled down; that's acceptable when we have to do it to make it fit on the screen, but IMO we should make use of bigger screen sizes when we have them
[11:47] <evand> oh, my mistake.  I misread the changelog entry then.
[11:48] <kwwii> cjwatson, evand: the problem I am seeing is that the pics are being scaled up larger than the original size and therefore have blurry edges
[11:48] <evand> kwwii: I'll take care of that
[11:48] <kwwii> cool :-)
[11:48] <cjwatson> that's very odd. what size of screen?
[11:48] <cjwatson> evand: is this something you can reproduce?
[11:49] <kwwii> cjwatson: 1920x1440 or such
[11:49] <cjwatson> the code just says "if screen big enough: use normal images; else: use half-size images
[11:49] <cjwatson> "
[11:49] <kwwii> cjwatson: it seems to be normal sized when I install from the live CD but when I click on install ubuntu directly it scales them up it seems
[11:49] <cjwatson> aha
[11:49] <cjwatson> that'll be the full-screening
[11:49] <cjwatson> I bet that the map widget is set to expand
[11:49] <cjwatson> or fill, or some combination of those
[11:49] <evand> cjwatson:  ah actually, probably not given my low resolution, but I can roll debs for kwwii to test
[11:49] <kwwii> right, that is how it looks
[11:50] <evand> ah
[11:50] <cjwatson> (I can never remember the difference and always have to look it up ...)
[11:51] <lool> cjwatson: Could we get a debian-installer upload (I can do one if you like) today?  I'd like to test updated hd-media kernel built by d-i for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/354226
[11:52] <lool> if a kernel config is missing on lpia, we might still have a change to fix that one
[11:52] <cjwatson> lool: ok, I can do one later; I'd like to get a bit further with diagnosing bug 341928 first though, if that's OK, since that may well require a d-i upload anyway
[11:54] <lool> cjwatson: That's fine; thanks
[11:56] <ogra> if i do a while statement in shell like: while read moo;do echo $moo;done < $multiline_string ... is there any way to avoid using a fifo (read wants to open something, is there any replacement i can use to parse teh string directly ?)
[11:57] <kwwii> evand: how much can we change the wy the text looks? ie can we add a background color or a line around the outside? Can we change the X to a dot or such?
[11:57] <kwwii> s/wy/way
[11:58] <evand> kwwii: it's done in cairo, so we can add a different color line around the text or a solid background quite easily
[11:58] <evand> and yes, we can change the x to a dot
[12:00] <kwwii> evand: cool, once I have an idea of what to change I will get back to you...thanks again
[12:01] <evand> kwwii: great, thanks!
[12:01] <ogra> bah, i'm dense today
[12:02] <cjwatson> ogra: you mean you're trying to split up $multiline_string into lines?
[12:03] <ogra> cjwatson, no, i'm trying to change one line in a multiline string while keeping the order of the lines intact ...
[12:03] <cjwatson> ogra: why not just use sed then?
[12:03] <ogra> but i just noticed i'm silly and use: echo "$string"|while ...
[12:04] <cjwatson> foo | while read has some very odd semantics that are likely to bite you if you aren't careful
[12:04] <cjwatson> the while loop turns into a subshell so any variables set in there will be lost
[12:04] <javito> hi
[12:04] <cjwatson> I'd recommend using sed if you can
[12:05] <asac> ogra: can you join #nm for a moment?
[12:05] <ogra> hmm, sed is tricky here since the lines can vary and i dont know all possibilities
[12:05] <javito> what status should be assigned to a bug if you are attached the debdiff and subcribed motu for get sponsoring?  confirmed? in progress?
[12:05] <ogra> asac, i'm there
[12:06] <mvo> cjwatson: patch looks good
[13:11] <cjwatson> hah
[13:11]  * cjwatson cracks bug 341928
[13:12] <elmo> cjwatson: what was it?
[13:12] <fader_> cjwatson: \o/
[13:13] <elmo> (oh, nm, it's in the bug)
[13:13] <cjwatson> elmo: lvm2 scans all devices in /dev and didn't know that it should prefer, well, just about any other name over /dev/block/
[13:13] <cjwatson> I haven't actually tested the fix yet, that's in progress
[13:13] <cjwatson> fader_: thanks for those instructions, very helpful
[13:13] <fader_> cjwatson: No problem, glad to help :)
[13:14] <fader_> cjwatson: (especially with this bug as it's been hitting me on a daily basis ;) )
[13:15] <cjwatson> fader_: sorry it took a while; lvm2 and devmapper are twisty as hell and it was tricky to find the exact bit at fault
[13:16] <cjwatson> I never knew devmapper included a regex library ...
[13:16] <fader_> cjwatson: I can imagine... I don't envy you the task of tracing through all that
[13:16] <fader_> Heh
[13:17] <fader_> Now you just need to add the ability for it to read email and it will be a complete program.
[13:19] <Hobbsee> fader_: it does irc already?
[13:20] <fader_> Hobbsee: Heh, probably not, but I'm counting on there being an SMTP->IRC gateway out there somewhere ;)
[13:20] <Hobbsee> haha :)
[13:26] <StevenK> fader_: I think that can be done in about 5 lines of Perl
[13:27] <fader_> If it were a week ago I'd be sorely tempted to file a bug on this.
[14:04] <BUGabundo> anybody knows when pitti will be around? I have a GPM question
[14:06] <seb128> BUGabundo: he's at the linux foundation summit for the week
[14:08] <BUGabundo> seb128: thanks
[14:08] <BUGabundo> forgot about that
[14:08] <seb128> you can ask your question on the channel
[14:08] <BUGabundo> anyone else in charge of GPM?
[14:08] <seb128> some other people might know
[14:08] <BUGabundo> gonna file a wishbug against it
[14:08] <seb128> what do you call gpm exactly?
[14:09] <BUGabundo> to save profiles
[14:09] <BUGabundo> Gnome Power Manager
[14:09] <BUGabundo> even Win95 did that
[14:09] <seb128> you should open wishlist bug upstream rather
[14:09] <BUGabundo> and current version of GPM doesn't
[14:09] <BUGabundo> I will
[14:09] <seb128> nobody is actively working on new feature in an ubuntu specific way
[14:09] <BUGabundo> and track it in LP too
[14:09] <BUGabundo> I know
[14:10] <seb128> but I think the no profile is a choice
[14:10] <BUGabundo> just wanted to know if anyone knew anyother way to manage power profiles
[14:10] <seb128> it should be doing the right things, profile are sort of the wrong solution
[14:10] <BUGabundo> well I wish for Home, Office, On The Road profiles
[14:10] <BUGabundo> some can and should suspend, others always Onlin
[14:10] <seb128> what would be the difference?
[14:11] <BUGabundo> Screen bright, etc
[14:11] <seb128> I'm busy with jaunty work now and don't want to start a discussion
[14:11] <seb128> but that's of the wrong approch
[14:11] <seb128> you want to have settings changing when docked or on battery
[14:12] <BUGabundo> no not really
[14:12] <seb128> it doesn't really depends of if you are sitting in a train station or an airport
[14:12] <directhex> i ought to file a bug about getting ubuntu to be aware when my laptop's backlight changes brightness by itself (i.e. so it doesn't still show as 100% brightness when it's not)
[14:12] <BUGabundo> seb128: I'll start a discussion devel-discu ML
[14:12] <cjwatson> fader_: I'd like to fetch an updated lvm2-udeb into the running installer on berkelium, but it apparently doesn't let me fetch from either ppa.launchpad.net or people.ubuntu.com. Do you know what else I could try?
[14:12] <seb128> BUGabundo: right
[14:12] <BUGabundo> filing now bugs on both BTS and search for dupes
[14:13] <seb128> I would be surprised if there was not a bug about that already open
[14:14] <kwwii> query evand
[14:14] <kwwii> oops
[14:14] <evand> heh
[14:18] <cjwatson> fader_: never mind, I got it working by fetching the file to nickel first
[14:18] <fader_> cjwatson: You will probably need to copy it to nickel and then grab it from nickel on the target machine... they are firewalled down pretty hard
[14:18] <fader_> cjwatson: Heh, one step ahead of me :)
[14:20] <cjwatson> seems to DTRT, I'll upload that
[14:20] <cjwatson> couldn't quite test it all the way through, but lvm2 is now using the right device names
[14:22] <BUGabundo> seb128:" Query timeout of 60 seconds hit - killing the running query" that makes it hard to look for a dupe
[14:22] <seb128> BUGabundo: try less hard queries
[14:22] <seb128> BUGabundo: ie limit the importance to normal so you filter out all the crashers
[14:23] <seb128> or set a title keyword
[14:30] <BUGabundo> seb128: I limited to GPM and keyword "profile"
[14:30] <seb128> weird
[14:31] <BUGabundo> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query=gnome+power+manager+profiles
[14:31] <BUGabundo> and simple one timeout too
[14:31] <seb128> you should select the product in the list
[14:32] <azeem> maybee try gnome-power-manager
[14:32] <seb128> rather than searchin in the whole bugzilla this way
[14:32] <azeem> otherwise you might get all the hits with "gnome"
[14:32] <BUGabundo> there's nothing tagged "future"
[14:33] <BUGabundo> seb128: that was what I did! I limited to GPM
[14:33] <seb128> no it's not
[14:34] <seb128> the url has no product keyword
[14:34] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi
[14:37] <cjwatson> mvo: thanks for the libgksu review; uploaded
[14:39] <cjwatson> lool: see my comment in bug 357101 - I think you may have missed the context of my patch
[14:40] <lool> cjwatson: Indeed, I missed gksudo had this
[14:40] <lool> cjwatson: Looks absolutely fine then
[14:40] <cjwatson> though I agree it should go upstream
[14:42] <BUGabundo> seb128: bug 357719
[14:42] <cjwatson> you can't really talk to dbus when gksudo'd unless you preserve environment variables, anyway
[14:42] <cjwatson> not the session bus anyway
[14:42] <BUGabundo> linked upstream too
[14:44] <seb128> BUGabundo: ok
[14:45] <BUGabundo> seb128: sending now to devel discuss
[14:47] <tseliot> seb128: any ideas as to why my partitions are mounted with "%" instead of "/" in their labels? http://www.albertomilone.com/ubuntu/gnome/problem.png
[14:48] <tseliot> seb128: any ideas as to why my partitions are mounted with "%" instead of "/" in their labels? http://www.albertomilone.com/ubuntu/gnome/problem.png  They are reported correctly by vol_id: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/146969/
[14:49] <lool> cjwatson: Oh right, it's not the session bus anyway
[14:49] <seb128> tseliot: is that new?
[14:49] <lool> cjwatson: But these vars should be enough for the session bus I think
[14:50] <cjwatson> lool: for ubiquity, there's no problem with just taking the lot
[14:50] <tseliot> seb128: yes
[14:50] <cjwatson> lool: so I don't want to get into any unnecessary complexity
[14:50] <cjwatson> "preserve whole environment" is just fine for me
[14:51] <tseliot> seb128: what package should I have a look at to fix it?
[14:51] <BUGabundo> tseliot: never saw nothing like that
[14:51] <seb128> tseliot: I would say to look at the recent upload on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mount
[14:51] <lool> cjwatson: sure
[14:51] <lool> cjwatson: It was in case we wanted to avoid copying the whole env
[14:51] <james_w> tseliot: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2009-April/013158.html may be related
[14:51] <seb128> tseliot: hum, though that's using _ ... not sure then
[14:51] <tseliot> BUGabundo: maybe it's because your partitions don't have a label?
[14:52] <BUGabundo> most don't, yes
[14:53] <tseliot> james_w: /media/hdb5 is being translated into %media%hdb5 which involves more mangling than what it's described there
[14:58] <BUGabundo> seb128: email sent.
[15:03] <lool> cjwatson: 16:02 < kov> lool: just saw it, yeah, I'll just finish something and do some  more thinking about that, but I see no problem in principle
[15:04] <cjwatson> lool: great, please pass on my thanks - I had been planning to send it to him once Ubuntu people had checked it was OK but don't mind being preempted ;-)
[15:05] <lool> (done)
[15:10] <jcastro> kirkland: I added the time grid here so people can pencil in what time they want sessions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
[15:11] <jcastro> also, anyone else interested in an openweek session please ping me!
[15:13] <cjwatson> fader_: is it just me or is it odd that berkelium isn't back in the PPA pool? I did run make_ppa - or did you steal it again for enablement?
[15:14] <fader_> cjwatson: I didn't grab it but it is possible that it got hit automatically... let me check
[15:16] <cjwatson> fader_: I wasn't sure how to tell - make_ppa didn't seem to obviously cause anything to be added to launchpad.net/builders/ even when I checked right afterwards
[15:16] <fader_> cjwatson: It takes a bit of time as it needs to rebuild the machine.  I'm not sure when it shows up on launchpad though... maybe once it's finished building and ready for work...
[15:16] <fader_> I kicked off make_ppa again on it just to see.  It doesn't look like certify-web was doing anything with it
[15:17] <elmo> cjwatson: make_ppa takes a long time (it's a from-scratch reinstall) and sometimes fails
[15:17] <elmo> cjwatson: don't worry about it too much; we get alerted when machines fail to make the transition
[15:18] <cjwatson> elmo: ok, fair enough, thanks
[15:18] <cjwatson> I didn't realise it was a full reinstall, thought it was just untar or similar
[15:19] <elmo> it probably should be, and we may move towards something lighterweight now that the enablement machines are being more actively used
[15:19] <elmo> but right now, it's a pre-seeded from-scratch install
[15:19] <elmo> (including guest creation \o/)
[15:26] <BUGabundo> cjwatson: do you know about http://xpud.org/ ?
[15:27] <BUGabundo> they boot linux in 10 secs
[15:28] <infinity> BUGabundo: My experience with most "we boot Linux in under 10 seconds" systems is that they tend to not have an init system, and frequently don't use X.
[15:28] <infinity> BUGabundo: Neither of those are particularly viable for us.
[15:29] <BUGabundo> infinity: yeah... just learned about that via µblog. reading more
[15:29] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: as infinity says. The trick is booting quickly while also doing the things that Ubuntu does.
[15:30] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: besides, I don't see any source code there?
[15:30] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: I imagine they just took out a bunch of stuff
[15:30] <BUGabundo> I think I already asked this, but my memory is worse by the day, how can I make bootchart messure past GDM ?
[15:31] <BUGabundo> cjwatson: no mention of code on the ML either
[15:32] <hyperair> BUGabundo: look for S99stop-bootchart or something in /etc/rc2.d and rename it to K99blah
[15:32] <infinity> cjwatson: http://github.com/penk/mkxpud/tree/master
[15:32] <BUGabundo> hyperair: thanks... the scripted changed so much in jaunty
[15:32] <hyperair> BUGabundo: um that was in intrepid.
[15:32] <hyperair> BUGabundo: i don't know about jaunty.
[15:33] <BUGabundo> hyperair: ahh ok then
[15:33] <infinity> cjwatson: They basically just tear chunks out of Debian-like systems to make cut-down bootable images.
[15:33] <hyperair> i don't think it should have changed much though
[15:33] <BUGabundo> hyperair: http://paste.ubuntu.com/146993/
[15:33] <BUGabundo> here is mine
[15:34] <hyperair> BUGabundo: i didn't modify my initscript, i just renamed it to K99stop-bootchart.
[15:34] <hyperair> BUGabundo: then it won't get called when init finishes
[15:34] <hyperair> i mean when the whole set of rc2.d scripts finish
[15:35] <cjwatson> BUGabundo: right. doesn't sound too interesting with regard to our boot speed work, from what infinity says
[15:36] <BUGabundo> ok nice to know
[15:39] <savvas> where's the icon size set for .desktop files? I mean when you stretch the icon of a .desktop files, where's the value saved?
[16:15] <kirkland> jcastro: cool, i'll grab a slot
[16:27] <ubuntunewkid> hello
[16:27] <ubuntunewkid> is anyone experienced with testing python
[16:28] <ubuntunewkid> i am getting syntax errors in the terminal when i try to test my python code
[16:29] <ubuntunewkid> i am using python 3.0
[16:29] <cjwatson> ubuntunewkid: Python 3.0 involves significant language changes from previous versions of Python. Have you read the documentation on porting from previous versions?
[16:29] <cjwatson> bah
[17:13] <jdstrand> mvo: hi! when you can spare a couple minutes, can you review bug #354793 and my proposed fix? I'd like push this out as an SRU, or possibly a security update.
[17:14] <mvo> jdstrand: thanks, doing that now
[17:26] <elmo> mvo: ekiga can't be upgraded by update-manager; I think I saw you discussing this with mdz the other day - is this a known bug?
[17:26] <mdz> elmo: yes, I filed it
[17:26] <elmo> mdz: ok, ta
[17:26] <mdz> elmo: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ekiga/+bug/353768
[17:27] <mvo> elmo: yes, there was a fix tossed around, but it was no good, so its still being worked on
[17:37] <tseliot> slangasek: (just asking, it's not a request) would it be a problem to include qt4 in Ubuntu's cd (e.g. in Jaunty+1) in terms of space?
[18:13] <mdz> kirkland: are you sure you want to attach *full* dpkg -l output to every kvm bug report?
[18:23] <kirkland> mdz: seemed like a good idea at the time, is that ill-advised?
[18:23] <kirkland> mdz: the virt stack is many and varied
[18:24] <mdz> kirkland: it's an extra 200k of data for every report
[18:24] <mdz> kirkland: it would be better to limit it to relevant packages
[18:24] <mdz> we could probably use a general mechanism for noting versions of related packages (other than dependencies)
[18:24] <kirkland> mdz: can i compress it?
[18:25] <mdz> kirkland: yes, it compresses down to 50 or so
[18:25] <kirkland> mdz: yeah, totally, the dependencies isn't as interesting as its cousins
[18:25] <mdz> before the base64 bloat
[18:25] <mdz> kirkland: maybe you could add something to hookutils for that
[18:28] <kirkland> mdz: on the other hand ... i don't know that i've gotten a kvm bug report yet
[18:28] <kirkland> mdz: via apport
[18:28] <kirkland> mdz: or at least not piles of them
[18:28] <kirkland> i was bracing for the worst :-)
[18:29] <pwnguin> how many people are using kvm AND jaunty?
[18:29] <mdz> kirkland: adding a hook won't cause you to get any more bug reports than you otherwise would
[18:29] <mdz> it just makes them more useful when the user uses the tool
[18:30] <kirkland> pwnguin: at least 1
[18:30] <pwnguin> if the report takes longer as a result of the hook, you might argue you'll get less apport bugs from impatient users
[18:30] <kirkland> mdz: okay.  is this something I need to pull immediately?
[18:31] <mdz> kirkland: no
[18:32] <kirkland> mdz: i did poke around a little for an existing function to get a list of packages installed, didn't find one, lazily dpkg -l'd it
[18:32] <kirkland> mdz: that 200K number is considerably smaller on servers :-)
[18:33] <kirkland> mdz: which is where I tested it
[18:33] <kirkland> mdz: and I could trim it down to just the first 3 fields of output
[18:33] <kirkland> mdz: obviously, i don't actually care about package descriptions, can look that up later
[18:33] <mdz> kirkland: I'll work on a hookutils function which takes a list of package names and DTRT
[18:34] <kirkland> mdz: just need the state, pkgname, and pkgver
[18:34] <mdz> kirkland: do you really need the state?  I'd think just name and version for installed packages, and ignore uninstalled packages
[18:35] <kirkland> mdz: dpkg -l | awk '{printf "%s\t%s\t%s\n", $1, $2, $3}'
[18:35] <kirkland> mdz: that's down from 200K on my desktop to 48K
[18:36] <mdz> kirkland: dpkg-query --show --showformat '${Package} ${Version}\n'
[18:38] <kirkland> mdz: yours works for me
[18:38] <kirkland> mdz: i'm happy with that
[18:41] <mdz> kirkland: as I said, I'll add something to hookutils to make this simple
[18:41] <mdz> it's already duplicated in several hooks
[18:41] <kirkland> mdz: nice, thanks
[18:51] <mdz> kirkland: Committed revision 1379.
[18:51] <mdz> kirkland: once that's in the archive, you can just do attach_relevant_packages(report, ['package1', 'package2', ...])
[18:52]  * ogra wonders why he doesnt see any "running scripts casper..." messages on a livefs boot if quiet is omitted ...
[18:52] <kirkland> mdz: okay, you're opposed to attaching the whole list?  or can you expose a method to take the whole list?
[18:53] <ogra> i see them in casper.log but not on the screen
[18:55]  * Riddell throws a paper aeroplans at doko with "commit changes to cdbs to bzr" written on it
[18:56] <mdz> kirkland: honestly, I think attaching the whole list is not very useful
[18:56] <mdz> kirkland: surely you have to look through that whole list to find the handful of packages which are relevant
[18:57] <mdz> kirkland: the virt stack can't be that much worse than the printing stack, and they list 32 packages in a nice compact and readable attachment
[18:59] <sbeattie> mdz: hrm, I wonder if it'd be useful to support regex matching there; think of all the apache2-* packages.
[18:59] <sbeattie> sorry, libapache2
[19:00] <mdz> sbeattie: that's a good point
[19:10] <mdz> sbeattie: bzr commit -m 'apport/hookutils.py: Add glob matching to package_versions()'
[19:10] <mdz> sbeattie: done
[19:11] <sbeattie> mdz: thanks!
[19:11] <mdz> sbeattie: so now you can do package_versions('libapache2*')
[19:11] <mdz> it uses shell-style glob matching rather than a regex, which is a bit simpler
[19:18] <TheMuso> mdz: I see the apport utils alsa hook retrieves pci information about audio hardware. Does this also retrieve the vendor and device IDs as well, since these are often needed for hda hardware enablement/debugging.
[19:24] <slangasek> tseliot: not at all
[19:25] <slangasek> tseliot: er, I mean, yes it would be a big problem
[19:25] <slangasek> tseliot: "not at all" to "would it be possible", which is what I read first :)
[19:25] <mdz> TheMuso: it does lspci -vvmmnn
[19:26] <tseliot> slangasek: oh, even if it allowed access to some very interesting technology?
[19:26] <TheMuso> mdz: ah ok.
[19:26] <ogra> tseliot, called kubuntu ?
[19:26] <tseliot> ogra: not, it's not exactly what I meant :-P
[19:26] <tseliot> s/not/no/
[19:26] <ogra> :)
[19:26] <slangasek> tseliot: doesn't matter, there's no room.
[19:27] <tseliot> slangasek: ok, thanks
[19:51] <bencrisford> Hi everyone
[19:51] <bencrisford> If anyone gets any free time, spux project (ventrilo client for linu) needs developers :S, we're over on #spux on irc.freenode.net
[19:52] <bencrisford> so if u do have some free time...
[19:52] <bencrisford> cheers, bye
[19:53] <picklesworth> Err, what is spux? :/
[20:27] <mcas> can anyone tell me the time for the final translation export?
[20:34] <ebroder> Will it still be possible to upgrade, e.g., gutsy -> hardy after the 18th? I'm sending a reminder message to some of my users, and I'm wondering how emphatic I need to be about needing to upgrade
[20:41] <mdke> ebroder: yes. Try #ubuntu in future for support requests
[20:42] <atari2600a> hey
[20:42] <atari2600a> I'm using your 9.04 beta
[20:43] <atari2600a> I thought I'd just let you know
[20:43] <atari2600a> firefox didn't & still will not retain my preferences
[20:43] <atari2600a> I see this as a GIANT FREAKING SECURITY HOLE!
[20:44] <mdke> atari2600a: if you are able to search for a bug about this, that is more helpful than reporting it here. If there is already a bug, you can subscribe; if not, you can file one
[20:44] <atari2600a> meh
[20:47] <mdke> mcas: 9 April for translations outside language-packs; and 16 April for those in them (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule)
[20:47] <mcas> mdke: but which time? 00:00 UTC ?
[20:48] <mdke> mcas: in theory yes (see the top of the page I linked above)
[20:49] <mcas> oh sorry
[20:49] <mcas> my mistake
[21:35] <ikus060> I ask the question on kernel channel, but there isn't any activity, so I give a try here. I compile the kernel with CONFIG_HID_DEBUG=y but I don't get any debug info in syslog
[21:35] <walrus17> hello
[21:38] <walrus17> how yo udoin people
[21:40] <ikus060> fine, and you ?
[21:40] <walrus17> not bad
[21:40] <ikus060> Every time I come here, people seams to be death ...
[21:40] <walrus17> they are waiting for help
[21:41] <javito> hi
[21:41] <walrus17> hello
[21:41] <walrus17> wow you doni?
[21:41] <walrus17> * doin
[21:54] <lamont> so when I dist-upgrade and it gives me a new kernel and a new firefox, so I reboot the machine, then launch firefox... why is it that firefox immediately says 'zomg we need to restart...'?
[21:55] <slangasek> because there's a bug in something? :)
[21:55] <javito> lamont all firefox updates do it since firefox v3, including firefox over windows
[21:55] <slangasek> javito: no, you shouldn't get that behavior on a newly-launched firefox
[21:55] <lamont> javito: yeah, but rebooting the machine, uh, kinda necessarily is a restart of firefox...
[21:56] <lamont> slangasek: I guess I should file a bug, eh?
[21:56] <slangasek> yes please :)
[21:56] <lamont> feels like development, though. :-)
[21:57]  * jdong glares at pidgin for segfaulting on iconv
[21:58] <jdong> err icon-theme.cache rather.
[22:00] <seb128> jdong: get the libxml update I uploaded 15 minutes when it's built
[22:00] <jdong> seb128: cool, awesome :)
[22:00] <seb128> you can disable your jabber accounts as a workaround too
[22:01] <jdong> thanks
[22:06] <javito> i have a doub with a bug i'm working on
[22:06] <javito> i sent a debdiff for fix LP: 356918
[22:07] <javito> but there a a motu devel that deassigned me to the bug
[22:08] <javito> and wrote "this bug was fixed in the latest debian package" and linked to a sync request
[22:08] <javito> so... we are in Feature Frozen and this Sync implies a new feature
[22:08] <maxb> do you doubt it is fixed in the latest debian package?
[22:09] <maxb> bug 356918
[22:10] <maxb> javito: the changelogs provided in the sync request look pretty non-feature to me
[22:11] <javito> Added Galician translations for debconf
[22:11] <cjwatson> that's not a feature
[22:11] <cjwatson> anyway this is moot because seb128 has done the sync
[22:12] <slangasek> :)
[22:13] <javito> but i think frozen implies dont include new think could create new bugs... a new translation may have new bugs
[22:13] <javito> but i am maybe wrong
[22:13] <cjwatson> javito: we don't count translation updates as features
[22:14] <javito> ok then, i'll take note for the future, sorry for the mistake
[22:14] <cjwatson> yes, it is possible for them to create new bugs, but they will be very localised, and for the most part (not always in the case of translations of C programs, but always in the case of debconf translations) cosmetic
[22:16] <cellofellow> Will Jaunty have the new GTK version of Aptitude (0.5.0). I checked and currently it only has 0.4.1.
[22:17] <maxb> As there are only hours to go until FinalFreeze, I think "no" is a safe bet
[22:17] <cellofellow> Oh, really only hours?
[22:18] <maxb> ~ 2h40m
[22:18] <cellofellow> well, yeah No will be the right answer.
[22:19]  * cellofellow wonders if Aptitude GTK will overtake Synaptic as the favorite GTK APT frontend.
[22:19] <mvo> cellofellow: not for jaunty ;)
[22:19] <lamont> slangasek: there.  #358014
[22:19] <cellofellow> obviously. :)
[22:20] <cellofellow> But, in the next year or two. What if it's the default manager for Ubuntu in, say, Karmic+1?
[22:20] <slangasek> lamont: thanks, I'll leave you in asac's capable hands for that one then
[22:21] <cellofellow> (Or is Synaptic too ingrained into Ubuntu to leave?)
[22:21] <asac> bug #358014
[22:21] <Adri2000> slangasek: is final freeze really beginning at the start of the utc day as maxb said?
[22:21] <mvo> cellofellow: synaptic is pretty integrated and some people are quite fond of it, but that does not mean its there forever
[22:21] <mvo> cellofellow: we will talk about it at uds and decide
[22:21] <cellofellow> Ok then. :) So, we've had this discussion before I take it?
[22:22] <slangasek> Adri2000: that's the official deadline; the actual freeze may happen any time after that (it requires coordinating multiple people in order to get the button pushed)
[22:23] <Adri2000> ok
[22:23] <mvo> cellofellow: you take it in what sense?
[22:23] <cellofellow> mvo: oh, just how you said it would be discussed at UDS made me think this had been discussed before and it was decided to discuss it more then.
[22:24] <mvo> cellofellow: sorry, I did not express myself clearly then. I meant to say "we will discuss about it at the next UDS"
[22:24] <cellofellow> ok
[22:24] <mvo> cellofellow: for jaunty it was not clear if the gtk frontend would make it out of experimental or not
[22:24] <cellofellow> It's still there, hasn't hit Sid yet.
[22:25] <cellofellow> I thought Ubuntu pulled from Experimental though, not Sid.
[22:25] <mvo> cellofellow: only for selected packages
[22:25] <cellofellow> oh, ok
[22:25] <cellofellow> and it pulls straight from upstream for some things like Firefox, right?
[22:26] <mvo> yes
[22:26] <slangasek> hmm.  for the life of me, I cannot figure out why intrepid had python-xmpp 0.3.1-1.2 instead of 0.4.1-cvs20080505.2.
[22:27] <cjwatson> cellofellow: pulling from experimental across the board would be pretty, er, hardcore ;-)
[22:27] <cellofellow> gotcha
[22:27] <slangasek> in the "putting lots of metal through newfound holes in your skull" sense
[22:29] <cellofellow> when was the experimental branch started? I seem to remember once upon a time there only being stable, testing, and unstable.
[22:30] <maxb> experimental isn't a full branch, more of an overlay on unstable
[22:31] <maxb> A question about FinalFreeze: are Python 2.6 DeprecationWarnings from console apps still worth fixing, or are they too cosmetic to be worth the overhead of freeze exception processing?
[22:32] <cellofellow> According to Wikipedia it says that stuff in Experimental is stuff that isn't considered stable upstream, whilst if it is stable upstream it gets put in unstable.
[22:33] <slangasek> ...
[22:33] <slangasek> I think that section should be removed from the wikipedia article. :)
[22:34] <slangasek> maxb: universe is still fairly open to bug fixes with a minimum of overhead, I would say they're still worth fixing
[22:34]  * maxb should get debdiffing then :-)
[22:48] <cjwatson> cellofellow: experimental has been there for eons
[22:48] <cellofellow> ok
[22:49] <cjwatson> cellofellow: http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives.en.html might be a touch more authoritative than Wikipedia
[22:49] <cjwatson> which in this respect is indeed spouting nonsense
[22:56]  * calc doing test build for OOo then upload in ~ 1hr :)
[22:58] <lamont> so HTF do I tell vim to override the global setting for syntax on, globally for myself, in and out of chroots, I wonder.
[22:58] <cjwatson> echo 'syntax off' >> ~/.vimrc
[23:00] <lamont> ta
[23:00] <lamont> I wouldn't mind it so much if (1) I'd ever started using it, and (2) it was actually readable on the window
[23:01] <calc> lamont: you can also set your background color light or dark to make it more readable if that is the issue
[23:01] <calc> lamont: eg set bg=dark
[23:02] <lamont> calc: I prefer the backgrounds I have, thank you.  syntax highlighting has never been of any signifcant use to me
[23:03] <calc> lamont: er no the set bg=dark makes it change the highlighting colors (aiui anyway) so it shows up better on light or dark backgrounds
[23:03] <calc> lamont: but yea if you don't need it just turn it off
[23:05] <lamont> bg is either grey or black or a dark purple for most of my windows
[23:05] <lamont> then again, when I fire up a terminal, it's an xterm...
[23:05] <lamont> sorry seb
[23:06] <calc> well in that case setting bg=dark should change the colors to be readable, at least for the dark cases
[23:07] <calc> i always set my xterms to be white on black like console so i just have mine set to bg=dark in vimrc
[23:07]  * calc doesn't like the black on white in default gnome-terminal
[23:07] <Adri2000> speaking of vim, is it just me or vim stopped wrapping debian/changelog lines to 80 characters in jaunty?
[23:08] <slangasek> kees: could you have a look at bug #358051? (component-mismatches cleanup)
[23:09] <lamont> slangasek: I'm a big fan of shiny dnspython
[23:09] <lamont> OTOH, that has nothing to do with release critera
[23:12] <TheMuso> calc: re gnome-terminal, me neither, which is why I change it to white on black. :p
[23:13] <calc> TheMuso: yea me too
[23:13] <calc> TheMuso: i rarely use real xterms, usually just a g-t 'xterm'
[23:13]  * calc wonders if black on white is a mac'ism
[23:13] <TheMuso> calc: gnome-terminal all the time for me here, due to a11y requirement.
[23:16] <TheMuso> calc: Not sure, but I know its quite difficult, at least so far as I've tried, to switch the OS X terminal to black on white.
[23:51] <LaserJock_> bryce: about? I got an interestingly locked up X
[23:51] <LaserJock_> relatedly, does anybody know the best way to restart X from ssh?
[23:52] <bryce> /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[23:52] <hyperair> could i persuade anyone to look at bug #202089?
[23:53] <LaserJock_> bryce: what if that doesn't work?
[23:53] <TheMuso> hyperair: Just have, please read my comment.
[23:53] <hyperair> it was fixed, but some users complained it didn't work for them, so i've revised the pm-utils hook in pulseaudio
[23:53] <bryce> LaserJock, then your GPU is probably locked up and you'll have to powercycle
[23:53] <LaserJock_> bryce: it says it shut down but fails to restart. however I see all my desktop processes still around so I don't know how it could have successfully shut down
[23:53] <bryce> ps aux | grep X ?
[23:53] <hyperair> TheMuso: are you luke yelavich?
[23:53] <TheMuso> hyperair: Yes.
[23:53] <hyperair> TheMuso: i've fixed that already, see my latest comment =)
[23:54] <TheMuso> hyperair: Thanks.
[23:54] <LaserJock_> bryce: I still have an X process
[23:54] <LaserJock_> let me kill that
[23:54] <hyperair> TheMuso: actually i'm wondering if suspend-source is also needed
[23:54] <TheMuso> hyperair: Hrm, you may have a point.
[23:54] <hyperair> TheMuso: perhaps it owuld be safe to just add it anyway
[23:54] <TheMuso> However, who would be using a mic/line-in when they suspend?
[23:55] <hyperair> TheMuso: good point, but if anyone is crazy enough to do that, it would be nice to not have it break ;)
[23:56] <LaserJock_> bryce: hmm, killing X hosed the whole thing, can't even ssh anymore, off to powercycle :-)
[23:56] <LaserJock_> this is sort of disturbing
[23:56] <LaserJock_> I was in the middle of my dissertation :-)
[23:56] <hyperair> TheMuso: i'll update the debdiff then.
[23:57] <dtchen> hyperair: i'm already fixing it in my bzr branch
[23:57] <hyperair> dtchen: ah, i see. okay =)
[23:57] <hyperair> dtchen: weren't you crimsun?
[23:57] <dtchen> i still am.
[23:57] <hyperair> dtchen: i thought you weren't around =p
[23:58] <LaserJock_> bryce: would x86 vs x86_64 make a difference, I just started using amd64 around the time this started happening
[23:58] <bryce> laserJock, seems plausible


[01:50] <arraybolt3> sarnold: re how does popey have 1 reputation point: He accidentally used ChatGPT to help with answer generation *after* the ChatGPT ban was put in place. Ended up with a week-long and IMO probably unwarranted suspension.
[01:51] <sarnold> arraybolt3: ohhhhhhh
[01:51] <sarnold> arraybolt3: are those points 100% *gone*? or will they come back when they unsuspend?
[01:51] <arraybolt3> They'll come back.
[01:51] <arraybolt3> It was a suspension, not a "good bye you are hereby kicked out".
[01:51] <sarnold> nice nice. those fake internet points are worth their weight in gold.
[01:51] <arraybolt3> (He made a post about it on Mastodon.)
[01:52] <arraybolt3> Can't really blame the AskUbuntu mods for it, but still...
[01:54] <arraybolt3> Anyway, guess it's a good lesson for all of us. Just because you can use ChatGPT skillfully doesn't mean you're allowed to either.
[01:54] <sarnold> dang those are good looking ribs...
[01:55] <arraybolt3> !ot | sarnold :P
[01:55]  * arraybolt3 ducks
[01:55] <sarnold> *whap*
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:36] <ducasse> morning
[07:17] <luna-> got access to the production Ubuntu Servers at work today


[12:14] <ion> http://slashdot.org/submission/1292828/Elite-Group-to-Reboot-the-Web-in-Case-of-Terrorism
[22:32] <sipa1024> hello, i have an upstart job that i want start after a particular cryptdisk is started
[22:32] <sipa1024> is that possible?
[22:53] <sipa1024> sorry, nvm


[07:47] <ree> hi https://i.imgur.com/rCJ7P8w.jpg any ideas? (18.04 beta-2)
[07:50] <ree> btw live mode
[07:53] <JohnDoe_71Rus> nomodeset?
[07:54] <JohnDoe_71Rus> no real hardware 18.04 start normal
[07:56] <JohnDoe_71Rus> how did you record the image on the sdcard?
[07:57] <JohnDoe_71Rus> wrong window
[08:03] <ree> >how did you record the image on the sdcard?
[08:03] <ree> it's virtualbox man
[08:07] <JohnDoe_71Rus> yes. i put sdcard to usb30 reader and netinstall 18.04 to sdcard. test this card on 4 different hardware and run in qemu.
[08:07] <JohnDoe_71Rus> by qemy i see pictures like you
[08:07] <ree> @JohnDoe_71Rus nomodeset помогло спасибо
[08:07] <JohnDoe_71Rus> but only plymoth
[08:08] <JohnDoe_71Rus> zemelya
[08:08] <ree> ne srazu "rus" zametil :D
[08:09] <JohnDoe_71Rus> welcome to our forum
[17:12] <Spass> hello, is this official Lubuntu channel?
[17:13] <wxl> yep Spass
[17:13] <Spass> I have one small question - what's the official Lubuntu website? .net or .me?
[17:14] <wxl> .me, as the website specifies
[17:14] <Spass> OK thanks, that was a little bit confusing.
[17:16] <Spass> I'm thinking about installing Lubuntu on my mother's very old laptop with Celeron 900 and 2GB RAM, it will probably be the best distro for that machine.
[17:16] <wxl> probably!
[17:20] <Spass> Hmm, was thinking about 18.04 beta 2, but I see some bugs on ISO tracker, I'll wait for the official release. Anyway, thanks for clarifying my website question. Have a good day everyone.
[17:21] <wxl> for what it's worth, 18.04 comes out this month
[17:21] <wxl> like, not the beta, but the final release
[17:22] <Spass> Yeah, no reason for me to hurry with beta installation, will wait. Installing 16.04 now has no point IMHO, and I want LTS release there.
[17:24] <wxl> you shouldn't see the exit codes for success if you did it as we discussed
[17:24] <wxl> if you want to see it fail, do something like -c 300 -w 1
[17:25] <wxl> theoretically you could put it anywhere. just specify the location in ssh
[17:25] <wxl> ssh takes -i /path/to/identity/file
[17:29] <wxl> oops wrong channel jeez :/