[06:18] <lordievader> Good morning.
[06:18] <elfy> morning
[06:23] <lordievader> Hey elfy, how are you?
[06:24] <elfy> good thanks lordievader - you?
[06:25] <lordievader> elfy: Waking up, but furthermode okay ;)
[06:25] <elfy> yea - a bit like that here too - not really wanting to go to work but heyho :p
[09:51] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[15:21] <MichaelP> kubuntu 14.10 kde 4.14 plasma 5... after installed plasma 5 power management configuration module not be loaded... The power management service apears not to be running... ..system seetting startup and shutdown.. background services.. says power management is running...  but under power management it is gray out
[15:48] <lordievader> MichaelP: Anyhow, is the power management service running?
[15:51] <MichaelP> lordievader: under startup and shutdown.. background services says it it
[15:51] <lordievader> MichaelP: Is it running or not?
[15:54] <MichaelP> startup and shutdown background services says it is... so what command wil tell
[15:55] <MichaelP> http://i.imgur.com/D4c3QnM.png
[15:59] <lordievader> MichaelP: Reading Riddel's comments I don't think this is a simple fix ;)
[16:03] <MichaelP> it was good kde 4.13 with plasma 5... then kde 4.14 with plasma 5 when it started
[16:04] <MichaelP> i running normal utopic 14.10 kde live.. then added ppa for plasma 5
[19:44] <S0-2> Hi
[19:44] <S0-2> I'm using 14.10 on a Nexus 7.. What's the password for phablet?
[19:44] <S0-2> I'd like to install some stuff.
[19:47] <S0-2> 'phablet' doesn't work as password as Google suggests.
[19:48] <Beldar> S0-2, This ubuntu-touch?
[19:48] <S0-2> Yes
[19:49] <Beldar> S0-2, They have a channel, the utopic here is not the same, #ubuntu-touch
[19:49] <S0-2> Ah, thanks.
[19:49] <Beldar> no prob
[22:48] <winael> Hi everyone
[22:48] <winael> I need a little help to fill a bug about utopic-desktop-next (It feel like a bug)
[22:50] <winael> in fact I don't know if it is an issue with the version itself or with Mir. According to dmesg I have a segfault with i915_dri.so module
[22:51] <winael> the result is a beautiful black screen with the possibility to move the mouse before being on the login screen
[22:52] <winael> I don't know if someone could help me to fill the bug, each time I want to report it, I jump to the how to fill a report bug wiki page :(
[23:01] <trism> winael: you can use: ubuntu-bug mesa; if you can't get that to work the wiki page describes how to file on the website, but they will probably need the info from ubuntu-bug


[15:29] <jcastro> qense: good job on the virt-manager bug, I was looking forward to tagging it but you were all over it!
[15:30] <qense> jcastro: Whenever I find an application that uses the tray I file a bug, if it's not on the list yet. I've now got proof that it's worth it! ;)
[15:35] <jpetersen> tedg, there is a patch in https://launchpad.net/bugs/522151 fixing a problem with insensitive menu items
[15:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 522151 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "indicator-application does not support insensitive menu items (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[15:35] <qense> Recently the checkboxes in Indicator Application menus did stop changing state, they are either always active or inactive now.
[15:45] <tedg> jpetersen: Sweet!
[16:16] <jcastro> jpetersen: thanks for the updates
[16:16] <jcastro> jpetersen: hmm, where is the upstream bug for gnome-settings-daemon?
[16:17] <jpetersen> jcastro, I will look, I just wanted to update the upstream bug
[16:17] <jcastro> cool, I just noticed it wasn't linked in lp
[16:21] <jpetersen> jcastro, is there an upstream connman-gnome bug?
[16:23] <jcastro> I don't think so
[16:25] <jcastro> jpetersen: marcel is more of a mailing list guy, you might have better luck mailing his list.
[16:25] <jpetersen> jcastro, ok
[16:26] <tedg> kenvandine: Can you cherrypick this?  https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/sensitive-522151/+merge/19876
[16:26] <seb128> tedg, kenvandine: I do that
[16:27] <tedg> seb128: Thanks!
[16:27] <seb128> np
[16:30] <kenvandine> seb128, thx
[17:31] <jcastro> Nafai: ping me when you're ready to start today, I have a change
[17:33] <jcastro> jpetersen: which apps are you working on today?
[17:46] <jpetersen> jcastro, I just finished connman-gnome, I wanted to push some patches upstream now and than start with packagekit-gnome
[17:46] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/524150
[17:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524150 in indicator-application "Menus updated at runtime aren't rendered correctly (affects: 1)" [High,In progress]
[17:46] <jcastro> so this bug is blocking nafai's apps
[17:46] <jcastro> the problem is Cody is going to be unavailable to look at this
[17:46] <jcastro> I was wondering if you could look at this
[17:48] <jpetersen> jcastro, yes I will look at it
[17:49] <jcastro> that's blocking like 2 of his apps that we ship by default, so a fix here would be a big win
[17:49] <jcastro> jpetersen: thanks!
[17:51] <Nafai> ping
[17:51] <Nafai> :)
[17:52] <jcastro> Nafai: ok so since bratsche is unavailable to fix 524150 I'm hoping that Jan might be able to figure it out
[17:52] <Nafai> Awesome
[17:52] <jcastro> Nafai: so other than those 2 it leaves Vino right?
[17:52] <Nafai> Yeah
[17:52] <Nafai> I'm almost done, I'm down to a couple of calls I need to replace
[17:53] <jcastro> excellent!
[17:53] <Nafai> I need to find an appropriate replacement for this:
[17:53] <Nafai> screen = gtk_status_icon_get_screen (GTK_STATUS_ICON (icon));
[18:05] <Nafai> tedg: Hey quick question.  I'm needing to replace this call that is in the Status Icon using code of vino:
[18:05] <Nafai> screen = gtk_status_icon_get_screen (GTK_STATUS_ICON (icon));
[18:05] <Nafai> Is there a sane way that I can get the screen?
[18:06] <jpetersen> Nafai, what is it used for?
[18:06] <Nafai> One of them is this: gdk_spawn_command_line_on_screen (screen, "vino-preferences", &error)
[18:07] <Nafai> And the other is a call to gtk_show_uri, where the first parameter is the screen
[18:07] <tedg> Nafai: There is no way to really know the screen that the menu is being shown on.  Instead it should use the default screen.
[18:07] <tedg> Nafai: I suggested that it wasn't perfect to do that, and mclasen yelled at me saying the function is perfect :-/
[18:08] <jpetersen> Yes I would use the default screen for that also (gdk_screen_get_default ())
[18:08] <Nafai> thanks
[18:57] <hyperair> tedg: are tooltips going to eventually be supported in the application indicator?
[18:57] <tedg> hyperair: Not for Lucid for sure, I don't know about long term.
[18:58] <hyperair> tedg: i see. do you happen to know how gnome-power-manager handles this?
[18:58] <hyperair> tedg: how does gpm tell the user how much time is remaining?
[18:58] <hyperair> for battery i mean
[18:58] <tedg> hyperair: I think it uses a top menu item, but I'm not sure.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines#tooltips
[18:59] <tedg> Nafai: Did you do gpm? ^
[18:59] <Nafai> nope
[18:59] <Nafai> can't remember if that was jpetersen or smithj
[18:59] <hyperair> pitti
[19:00] <smithj> wasn't me
[19:00] <hyperair> tedg: why are tooltips not supported by appind?
[19:01] <jpetersen> hyperair, it should be displayed in the menu item of the battery
[19:01] <tedg> hyperair: "Like other menus, status menus do not have tooltips."  from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines#tooltips
[19:01] <tedg> hyperair: To match normal menus.  As they goal is to make them as much like menus as possible.
[19:01] <hyperair> tedg: that states that status menus do not have tooltips. i want to know *why&*
[19:02] <hyperair> tedg: even toolbar icons have tooltips, you know?
[19:02] <jcastro> smithj: hey what's up with g-d-u?
[19:02] <hyperair> tedg: supposing i don't recognize the icon of the application i'm looking for, how do i identify which icon it is? click on each one and examine the menu?
[19:03] <jcastro> jpetersen: is g-s-d ready to be looked at by the desktop team? LP #497875
[19:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 497875 in libgnomekbd (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Support Application Indicators (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497875
[19:03] <jpetersen> jcastro, yes
[19:04] <smithj> jcastro: i need to implement the fading-window thing that mpt said
[19:04] <smithj> actually, i meant to ask... is there a library for that somewhere? or at least an example i could look at
[19:05] <tedg> hyperair: One would hope that an application that you start and use enough to enable it's application indicator, you'd know that icon.  But other than that, yes.  Most people couldn't tell you why an "Edit" menu is called an "Edit" menu, they're just comfortable exploring their because they understand the risks involved with menus.  We're trying to provide the same easy exploration by using a standard menu meme.
[19:05] <jpetersen> Nafai, I have a patch for LP #524150 can you try it out?
[19:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524150 in indicator-application "Menus updated at runtime aren't rendered correctly (affects: 1)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524150
[19:05] <Nafai> jpetersen: Sure, if I can figure out how to get the deb built locally
[19:05] <jcastro> smithj: We're past feature freeze, I think the best thing to do now is just get it ported and in the distro
[19:05] <Nafai> Last time I tried it failed :)
[19:06] <hyperair> tedg: one would hope that i'd recognize an application *i start*. what about applications that start upon startup?
[19:06] <tedg> hyperair: Like?
[19:06] <hyperair> tedg: i don't know, the theoretical application.
[19:06] <smithj> jcastro: oh, ok. i was most of the way done with porting when mpt said that, so i should be able to clean up the patches pretty quickly
[19:06] <jpetersen> Nafai, I can build you the deb
[19:06] <jcastro> smithj: please do. We'll have to revisit it for L+1.
[19:06] <tedg> hyperair: Heh, we'll fix it to not start on startup ;)
[19:07] <hyperair> tedg: unless you're saying that applications which start when logging in should not have application indicators, period.
[19:07] <Nafai> jpetersen, cool x86_64, plz :)
[19:07] <hyperair> tedg: pardon me for being blunt, but i feel this is a retarded design.
[19:07] <tedg> hyperair: I think we're saying that applications shouldn't start on logging in unless the user requests them to.
[19:07] <tedg> hyperair: Which would require the user running them and configuring them to do so.
[19:07] <jcastro> smithj: freeze for A3 is like tomorrow so we need as many done ASAP.
[19:08] <hyperair> and after all that was said about being more conservative about adding/removing features for an LTS i.e. lucid, adding application indicators, removing tooltips seems like a massive change to me.
[19:08] <smithj> jcastro: so we can't continue porting after feature freeze?
[19:08] <jpetersen> Nafai, oh I only have i386
[19:09] <tedg> hyperair: Heh.  I'd have a hard time calling "tooltips" massive ;)
[19:09] <jcastro> smithj: we've got the default apps almost done, after that it'll be best effort but let's concentrate on finishing up what we have now.
[19:09] <Nafai> Tell me how to build and I will
[19:09] <smithj> k
[19:09] <hyperair> tedg: it is for certain applications, especially media applications like banshee.
[19:09] <jcastro> smithj: would rather get 8 solid ones done and accepted upstream and 20 half finished ones that have no chance of making it into Lucid
[19:09] <hyperair> tedg: now i have to open my media application's huge window to figure out what song is currently playiing.
[19:10] <hyperair> tedg: it doesn't even take a child to count how many more clicks and tell you how much more inconvenient that is.
[19:10] <tedg> hyperair: I think that is an issue.  But I don't think just adding back tooltips will fix it appropriately.
[19:10] <tedg> hyperair: Usability can't be defined by the number of clicks.
[19:10] <hyperair> tedg: but accessibility of features can.
[19:11] <tedg> hyperair: It's like measuring programs by Lines of Code.  Easy to measure, but not useful.
[19:11] <hyperair> tedg: you're making me jump through hoops to query for information which used to be easily accessed.
[19:11] <jcastro> smithj: what else is on your list that isn't in Lucid?
[19:12] <smithj> jcastro: what do you mean by "isn't in lucid"?
[19:12] <smithj> that hasn't been committed yet?
[19:12] <jcastro> right
[19:12] <hyperair> tedg: and if that's not enough, the menus look ugly when your icons are pushed inwards [see: http://files.qense.nl/Schermafdruk.png]
[19:12] <tedg> hyperair: We'll have to agree to disagree that tooltips are critical for Lucid.
[19:12] <jcastro> I just want to make sure all the bugs that are finished are assigned to the desktop team
[19:13] <smithj> i sent the patch for hplip, don't think ken has gotten to it yet
[19:13] <smithj> i'm working on gdu and seahorse
[19:13] <hyperair> tedg: i really like ubuntu development goes these days. "i'll just implement things my way, and if you don't agree with me, we'll agree to disagree."
[19:13] <hyperair> well specifically the (d|u)x things
[19:15] <tedg> hyperair: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines#icons
[19:15] <jcastro> smithj: ok let's not even bother with seahorse, finish off g-d-u please. Based on if/when Jan/Nafai fix this cascading menu thing I might need to you do policy-1-gnome instead
[19:15] <smithj> jcastro: ok
[19:15] <hyperair> tedg: i also wonder how a11y things go with indicator applications. i highly doubt that text-to-speech can read icons to a blind user.
[19:15] <smithj> jcastro: just let me know. i was figuring out vala last night though... would be a shame to waste that knowledge :-P
[19:16] <tedg> hyperair: So you're saying that a11y was better with the notification area?
[19:16] <hyperair> tedg: i'm not saying it's better with the notification area, but i'm saying it's impossible without tooltips.
[19:16] <hyperair> tedg: unless you're telling me you can find a way to read out icons to a blind user.
[19:16] <hyperair> tedg: icons without tooltips, mind.
[19:17] <jcastro> smithj: we'll get back to it at some point I am sure, just want to get things in the default install on the CD for A3. Or if not right after.
[19:17] <tedg> hyperair: So, we've made it better.  Not perfect yet.
[19:19] <hyperair> tedg: right, so we're going to push this imperfect solution onto users in an LTS.
[19:20] <tedg> hyperair: Yes, I think OpenOffice is imperfect too.  But, it being LTS doesn't meant that all problems are always solved 100%  ;)
[19:20] <jpetersen> Nafai, bzr clone lp:ubuntu/indicator-application
[19:20] <hyperair> tedg: openoffice has been there since the beginning of time. that is besides the point.
[19:21] <jpetersen> Nafai, apply the patch and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[19:21] <hyperair> tedg: i'm talking about throwing away features for an imperfect solution that does not give back enough.
[19:21] <hyperair> tedg: and all that in an LTS.
[19:21] <jpetersen> tedg, can you look at the patch attached to LP #524150 Nafai could test it with gnome-bluetooth
[19:21] <tedg> jcastro: Yes.  The question is whether that's a plus or minus.  It makes the menus "non standard".... though it provides information.  I'm not against tooltips, but I feel that we need to start small.
[19:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524150 in indicator-application "Menus updated at runtime aren't rendered correctly (affects: 1)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524150
[19:22] <hyperair> hardy was a miserable LTS already, why must we keep repeating the same mistakes and implement loads of crazy life-changing shit in our LTSes?
[19:22] <tedg> jpetersen: Will do.
[19:23] <jcastro> smithj: what days are you planning on working this week? During the week at all?
[19:24] <hyperair> http://www.notmart.org/misc/statusnotifieritem/statusnotifieritem.html <-- for some reason i see tooltips in this specification. are we having a completely different specification implemented?
[19:24]  * tedg loves that his work is considered "life-changing" he only thought it was little icons.
[19:25] <tedg> hyperair: We're not implementing the tooltips in the KSNI spec.  They're optional.
[19:27] <hyperair> tedg: i can't leave my pointer over gpm's icon and watch my battery time while reading something else in the background, and i have to click banshee's icon, wait for it to get swapped in, see the current playing artist/title and then hide it again.
[19:27] <Nafai> jpetersen, Okay, I'll take a look now
[19:27] <hyperair> tedg: those aren't minor changes in usability.
[19:27] <smithj> jcastro: i can if needed
[19:27] <hyperair> tedg: and neither of them are positive changes either.
[19:27] <jpetersen> Nafai, ok
[19:28] <hyperair> tedg: in fact, what do application indicators have that the notification area didn't provide besides "standardized look and feel"?
[19:28] <hyperair> i think we've lost more than we've gained.
[19:28] <jpetersen> I am off for the day, bye bye
[19:28] <jcastro> thanks jpetersen!
[19:28] <jono> thanks jpetersen :)
[19:28] <Nafai> Yes, thanks
[19:29] <Nafai> Hope this works! :)
[19:29] <jcastro> Nafai: I hope so too
[19:29] <Nafai> jono: How did your scale talk go?
[19:29] <jono> Nafai, hey!
[19:29] <jono> went well
[19:29] <jono> just coordinating repeating it on ustream.tv :)
[19:29] <jcastro> Nafai: at a minimum we can get Vino in today I hope?
[19:29] <tedg> hyperair: No offense, but I'm tired of this conversation at this point.  You are entitled to your opinion, I just happen to disagree.
[19:29] <jpetersen> Nafai, just leave the feedback in the bug report, I will look into it tomorrow again if there is still something broken
[19:29] <Nafai> jcastro: Yes, pretty close :)
[19:29] <Nafai> jpetersen, will do
[19:30] <jpetersen> Nafai, thanks
[19:30] <hyperair> tedg: well thanks for your time, and for forcing your opinion on everyone who does not agree.
[19:30] <jcastro> hyperair: you're better off discussing this with mpt, the DX guys just implement what the design team does
[19:30] <hyperair> oh him again.
[19:30] <hyperair> last i remember, i had a flame war with him on the list regarding update-notifier popping up automatically
[19:31] <hyperair> which incidentally was left unresolved, with mpt just brushing aside all opinions
[19:31] <hyperair> total epic win.
[19:31] <hyperair> honestly, where the hell are we going?
[19:32] <jcastro> ok so dude, let's calm down for a sec
[19:32] <hyperair> i've had a whole day to calm down.
[19:32] <jono> hyperair, what are your primary concerns?
[19:33] <hyperair> jono: tooltips.
[19:33] <jono> hyperair, what about them?
[19:33] <hyperair> jono: because apparently tooltips aren't necessary to tell what icons are/do
[19:33] <jono> hyperair, right
[19:33] <jono> and what is the problem?
[19:34] <hyperair> jono: i can't query the current playing track in banshee/rhythmbox without opening the main window, and i can't query my battery status without clicking on gpm.
[19:34] <jono> hyperair, right, and how have you engaged around the solution?
[19:34] <hyperair> hmm?
[19:34] <hyperair> engaged meaning?
[19:35] <jono> tried to comunicate the issue and resolve it?
[19:35] <hyperair> discussed with upstream, various other people, some people implementing indicator applications, and tedg, as you saw just now.
[19:35] <jono> hyperair, and what is the conclusion?
[19:36] <hyperair> jono: that my opinion is utterly and totally rejected with no good reason.
[19:37] <jono> hyperair, why do you feel that way?
[19:37] <hyperair> jono: because i have not seen a good reason for ditching tooltips.
[19:37] <jcastro> Nafai: ok, so I guess it's up to you to test it and hope we don't need jpetersen for the rest of the day.
[19:37] <Nafai> Yeah, but this time it isn't even showing the device menus :(
[19:38] <jcastro> ugh
[19:38] <Nafai> Yeah
[19:38] <jcastro> tedg: help?
[19:38] <jono> hyperair, so you feel you were rejected because they have not implemented what you want?
[19:38] <hyperair> jono: no, because tedg said they were not going to implement it. implying that it is a conscious decision to get rid of tooltips.
[19:39] <tedg> Nafai: Uhg.  Uhm, so it doesn't show submenues?
[19:39] <hyperair> jono: similar to having update-manager pop up on its own, but at least that could be disabled.
[19:39] <jono> hyperair, maybe it is?
[19:39] <hyperair> jono: if it is a conscious decision to get rid of tooltips, then i'd at least expect to see a good reason.
[19:39] <jono> that doesnt mean you were "utterly and totally rejected with no good reason"
[19:39] <hyperair> jono: but there was no reason given.
[19:39] <Nafai> tedg, Yeah, in gnome bluetooth, there are submenus for the devices.  with jan's latest patch, they don't show up at all
[19:40] <jono> tedg, is there a reason?
[19:40] <tedg> Nafai: Hmm, okay, let me look, it probably doesn't recurse.
[19:40] <Nafai> thanks
[19:40] <Nafai> bbiab, getting lunch
[19:40] <tedg> jono: (01:01:47 PM) tedg: hyperair: To match normal menus.  As they goal is to make them as much like menus as possible.
[19:41] <jono> right and normal menus dont have tooltips
[19:41] <hyperair> to which i mentioned that they're more like toolbar icons with menus dangling from them.
[19:41] <hyperair> menus have text.
[19:41] <hyperair> if you wanted to match menus, you'd get rid of the icons and use text for them instead.
[19:41] <jono> hyperair, you want each menu t have a tooltip?
[19:41] <hyperair> but that's obviously not going to work.
[19:41] <hyperair> jono: toolbar icons have tooltips, yes?
[19:41] <jono> hyperair, I am talking about the menus
[19:42] <jono> do you want each item on an app indicator to have a tooltip?
[19:42] <hyperair> precisely.
[19:42] <jono> or could a tooltip for the icon solve what you need?
[19:42] <hyperair> the icon
[19:42] <jono> I mean the main app indicator icon
[19:42] <hyperair> yes, the app indicator icon
[19:42] <jono> tedg, can you have a tooltip for the app indicator icon?
[19:42] <jono> that seems sane to me
[19:44] <tedg> jono: Not for Lucid.  I imagine we'll reopen the discussion for Meandering Marmot.  I'm not against them.  I'm just not sure they're required.  With the new placement the Fedora guys did they're not as annoying on menus, so that helps a ton.
[19:44] <jono> hyperair, so why don't we discuss this for Lucid+1? we are a bit late in the cycle to do this now
[19:44] <tedg> jono: I think the two features "up for discussion" right now for M is scroll wheel and tooltips.
[19:44] <jono> does that sound ok?
[19:44] <hyperair> that sounds fine.
[19:44] <jono> hyperair, awesome :)
[19:45] <hyperair> =)
[19:45] <jono> we want to ensure our friends such as yourself are happy :)
[19:45] <hyperair> well thanks. that's nice to know.
[19:45] <jono> sorry I can't chat more, have a meeting in 15 and need to go and put trousers on :)
[19:45] <kenvandine> haha
[19:45] <kenvandine> nice picture jono!
[19:45] <jono> kenvandine, lol
[19:46] <qense> Does anyone know if the fall-back mechanism is supported by AppInd's Mono bindings?
[19:47] <kenvandine> qense, it used to work..
[19:47] <kenvandine> so it should
[19:47] <qense> aww, bad formulated sentence
[19:47] <kenvandine> i am almost certain it did in tomboy
[19:47] <qense> I meant: can you override the default fall-back mechanism?
[19:51] <kenvandine> not sure
[19:52] <qense> I couldn't find anything in the Tomboy patch and AppIndicator support doesn't seem to be in the Tomboy version on Lucid yet.
[19:52] <jcastro> qense: tomboy won't be ported
[19:53] <jcastro> it uses custom UI for pins and we didn't want to break that in lucid
[19:53] <qense> I already thought I heard something like that.
[19:56] <tedg> qense: In theory, the custom fallback stuff should work, but I'm not sure how it would work.  Sorry.  But if it doesn't work, that's a bug :)
[19:56] <qense> tedg: Ok then, I'll try to see if it works.
[19:58] <vish> hmm , is it the design to not have tooltips for the app-indicators? or is it still in the works?
[19:59] <qense> vish: <tedg> jono: Not for Lucid.  I imagine we'll reopen the discussion for Meandering Marmot.  I'm not against them.  I'm just not sure they're required.  With the new placement the Fedora guys did they're not as annoying on menus, so that helps a ton.
[20:00] <vish> :(
[20:01] <vish> hehe , that was just discussed a few lines above :p
[20:01]  * vish should read scroll-backs more
[20:01] <artir> I just arrived
[20:02] <artir> can sb pastebinit?
[20:07] <qense> artir: the logs are available at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[20:26] <artir> of course
[20:26] <artir> XD
[20:26] <artir> i forgot
[20:49] <jcastro> tedg: Nafai: any luck with those menus?
[20:49] <jcastro> Nafai: also, power-manager is now in. \o/
[20:51] <qense> tedg: Is it possible to not use the fallback mechanism and only make appindicator work when Indicator Application is available? I would like the class calling it to fail so the application can continue with trying other options.
[20:51] <tedg> jcastro: Looking.
[20:52] <tedg> qense: You'd have to subclass the object and set the fallback and unfallback functions to be empty functions or null.
[20:52] <qense> tedg: ok, then I'll do that
[20:52] <qense> thanks!
[21:02] <Nafai> Back from lunch, btw
[21:18] <Nafai> Sweet, now to just add a menu item indicating status and vino is hopefully done :)
[21:25] <artir> will networkmanager be migrated to the new indicator system?
[21:26] <jcastro> artir: no
[21:26] <artir> because it's a bit weird to have power,sound,session,messaging and me menues
[21:26] <artir> and not having a net indicator
[21:26] <Nafai> I assume because we don't yet have the necessary widgets for nm?
[21:27] <jcastro> yeah but it requires all sorts of custom widgets
[21:27] <jcastro> what Nafai said
[21:28] <artir> I predict that it'll be migrated maybe in lucid+2 or even +1
[21:33] <tedg> Nafai: I'm getting submenus... can you build this branch and see if works for you?  lp:~ted/indicator-application/menu-updates-lucid
[21:33] <Nafai> tedg, Sure thing.  I'm guessing I'll have to restart the service?
[21:33] <tedg> Nafai: Not the service, bluetooth-applet though.
[21:34] <Nafai> ok, thanks
[21:38] <Nafai> tedg, having trouble trying to build with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[21:38] <Nafai> /bin/sh: /home/nafai/Work/Ubuntu/menu-updates-lucid/./configure: not found
[21:38] <tedg> Nafai: I'd just do "debuild"
[21:38] <tedg> Nafai: Oh, you need to ./autogen.sh
[21:38]  * Nafai tries that one
[21:39] <Nafai> Okay, and then debuild?
[21:39] <tedg> Yeah, I think debuild -us will not ask for my password ;)
[21:39] <tedg> But, it doesn't matter if you don't know it.
[21:54] <Nafai> tedg: A bit closer, but not quite: http://www.travishartwell.net/bluetooth-latest.png
[21:55] <tedg> Nafai: I'm unsure why you have that double separator...
[21:55] <tedg> Nafai: I think the blank item is the menu tear off, which I odn't understand.
[21:55] <tedg> Oh, wait, I think it should be for each instead of for all.
[21:55] <Nafai> All that should show in the submenu is send files and browse files
[21:55] <qense> tedg: I had triple separators when I left a placeholder in the menu declaration.
[21:56] <qense> removing the placeholder solved it
[21:56] <qense> actually, double as well: I removed one separator and the placeholder.
[21:56] <qense> anyway, I'm off for this day, bye!
[22:52] <tedg> Nafai: Can you pull that branch again and tell me how things look for you?
[23:00] <kholerabbi> Hi, I'm going to submit a bug in Skype's bugtracker asking them to support the messaging menu..  Could someone point me towards documentation of the api?
[23:08] <jcastro> Nafai: how's it looking?


[00:49] <snap-l> jhansonxi_: I'm of two minds about getdeb and playdeb
[00:50] <snap-l> Seems whenever I run any of the repos on there, I get into trouble.
[00:51] <jhansonxi_> snap-l: I've rarely had trouble.  Only time I can think of was with FrostWire a while ago.
[02:01] <derekv> damn this icu
[12:02] <tony-smlr> SMLR is Live Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=XtFCJ8uU7SM , Audio: http://kwisher.dyndns-at-home.com:8000/streaming
[18:24] <derekv> monitor output on laptop borken, mousewheel broken, turns out android sdk in bsd is a big pita, fighting my way out of an update gone crappy, microusb port on phone has bad connection
[18:25] <derekv> i want all new stuff
[18:28] <brousch> derekv: I have been using adb wifi instead of a cable
[18:28] <brousch> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxapps.wifiadb&hl=en
[18:37] <derekv> brousch: can't charge wifi though
[18:37] <brousch> heh, true
[18:38] <derekv> i hate the everything but one important thing law of operating systems
[18:38] <derekv> any OS you'd otherwise be happy running will work well for everything but one important thing
[18:39] <brousch> I hadn't heard of that, but it sounds true
[18:39] <derekv> swear to god one day i'm just going to be like, welp i guess i can't do that thing.
[18:39] <brousch> Well that's me and games
[18:40] <derekv> huh well i have two 1tb drives in this thing
[18:40] <derekv> thats plenty of room for multiple oss
[18:40] <derekv> os's
[18:41] <brousch> Of course you could work on providing the missing functionality to the OS of your choice
[18:41] <brousch> Which is what I'm doing with Android
[18:41] <derekv> what are you working on?
[18:42] <brousch> Python programming on Android
[18:42] <derekv> jython?
[18:42] <derekv> or native?
[18:43] <brousch> Using Kivy now
[18:43] <brousch> It compiles to ARM and you include the executable in your apk
[18:44] <derekv> are there wrappers for the android sdk gui stuff?
[18:44] <brousch> Then you can swap out the main.pyo with your own main.py and go to town
[18:44] <brousch> No, they use their own GUI. It's based on opengl
[18:44] <brousch> Kivy runs on OSX, linux, windows, android and ios
[18:46] <brousch> It's pretty slick, but a young project so there's some rough edges
[18:46] <derekv> i bet it does everything except one important thing i need
[18:47] <brousch> probably more than one ;)
[18:47] <brousch> So help us fill in the gaps
[19:19] <derekv> there are so many projects to potentially join
[19:20] <brousch> I know
[23:32] <snap-l> Evening


[13:33] <bazhang> why do people feel compelled to answer, even if they are giving the wrong support
[13:41] <ikonia> who did it this time ?
[13:42] <gnomefreak> :O people do that!!!
[13:42] <gnomefreak> :)
[13:45] <bazhang> monkeydust
[13:51] <ikonia> he is very keen
[13:59] <bazhang> heads up in -irc fujisan
[15:55] <ikonia> 16:54 -!- TorbenBeta<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[15:55] <Pici> great
[15:55] <ikonia> he was in earlier using a different nick and being an idiot
[15:55] <Pici> no surprise there
[15:55] <ikonia> nope
[16:54] <mneptok> heh. i last logged in to the forums in 2009. i can;t edit any user settings, as i have fewer than 50 posts.
[16:54] <mneptok> it's safe to say i'm not really a forums person.
[16:55] <Myrtti> I'm not even sure I've got an account on the ubuntuforums
[16:55] <Pici> I used to be a forums person, until I discovered IRC... but I'm pretty sure I don't have any posts on my forums account.
[16:58] <Pricey> I don't eith.... oh wait.
[16:58] <mneptok> !mark #ubuntu bladernr_ had /away script. asked to disable. immediate and friendly response. thinks issue is gone. ops should show latitude.
[16:58] <mneptok> meh
[16:58] <mneptok> @mark #ubuntu bladernr_ had /away script. asked to disable. immediate and friendly response. thinks issue is gone. ops should show latitude.
[16:59]  * mneptok nudges ubottu
[16:59] <mneptok> @login
[17:00] <mneptok> !botsnack
[17:00] <pangolin> @mark #ubuntu-ops mneptok 500 years as a op and still can't work the bot
[17:00] <pangolin> :P
[17:01] <mneptok> when is pangolin coming out?
[17:01] <genii-around> Thurs 26th
[17:01] <mneptok> not what i meant.
[17:02] <pangolin> questioning my sexuality is clearly against the guidelines and CoC. I HATE YOU!
[17:02] <genii-around> Aaah
[17:03] <pangolin> mneptok, when you coming for a visit? you must be missing poutine by now
[17:03] <mneptok> pangolin: i was missing that by day 2 of the drive here in 2009.
[17:03] <pangolin> hehe
[17:04] <mneptok> pangolin: if i was to visit QC, it would be either 3 week nice period in April or September
[17:05] <mneptok> in spring, defintiely after dog-poop season. although i hear this year was mild, so maybe not as much is encrusted into the landscape.
[17:05] <pangolin> June or July would be better.
[17:05] <mneptok> (for those of you not from very cold very inhabited places ... this happens)
[17:05] <pangolin> no festivals in April
[17:05] <mneptok> yeah, but humidity. bleh.
[17:06] <pangolin> your dried out skin from NM could use some humidity
[17:06] <mneptok> after three years with none, i'm a complete lightweight in dealing with it.
[17:07] <mneptok> i'd do better in winter. it was -25F here in Feb 2011.
[17:07] <mneptok> i have some recent memory
[18:23] <mneptok> ikonia: keeping ops in #u for a while, or an oversight?
[18:23] <ikonia> no, trying to clean up while also juggling something else
[18:23] <ikonia> I'll be done in a minute
[18:24] <mneptok> roger that
[18:24] <mneptok> just checking. you're aware.
[18:25] <ikonia> no no, I know, appreciate it
[18:25] <ikonia> I'll be done asasp
[23:41] <kevinisexploiter> hey can i get back on #ubuntu
[23:43] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, no
[23:44] <kevinisexploiter> why
[23:44] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, we've been over this enough times
[23:44] <kevinisexploiter> and still u give no reason
[23:44] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, when you blame 8-9 other people for your actions
[23:44] <bazhang> "id theft"
[23:44] <kevinisexploiter> ohh so u know how it really is huh???
[23:45] <kevinisexploiter> u are all knowing
[23:45] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, you should contact your ISP if your connection is so deeply compromised
[23:46] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, we cannot afford to let that go on in #ubuntu
[23:46] <kevinisexploiter> what dammit
[23:46] <bazhang> askubuntu.com kevinisexploiter is a good resource
[23:46] <kevinisexploiter> nothing bad ever has happened on #ubuntu wtf
[23:47] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, around 10 nicks coming from your exact IP address have caused problems there
[23:47] <kevinisexploiter> u are wrong
[23:47] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, check the logs if in doubt
[23:48] <bazhang> !1984 | kevinisexploiter
[23:51] <kevinisexploiter> witch one is for #ubuntu i cant see the one to choose
[23:51] <bazhang> kevinisexploiter, so you need to explain your behavior and take responsibility for it
[23:52] <kevinisexploiter> whitch log do i look in none of them say just #ubuntu
[23:53] <kevinisexploiter> u mean i need to accept your lieing alegations and agrre i did somethingt i did not
[23:56] <kevinisexploiter> explain to me how to find the logs please
[23:58] <tsimpson> click the link, choose a year, month, day, then channel


[00:29] <c_smith> bkerensa, do you know if PCLinuxOS is a community project?
[04:35] <c_smith> does anyone here know what packages I would need to install to get LightDM with the Unity Greeter on Kubuntu 11.10 and what else I would possibly need to do?
[04:41]  * c_smith is going to test the KDE LightDM greeter, looks neat.
[06:14] <c_smith> bkerensa, is the Freegeek that the Global Jam is going to be hosted at the FreeGeek store at 1731 SE 10th Ave in Portland?
[06:16] <bkerensa|mobile> c_smith: there is only one freegeek
[06:39] <TRAVISg> Hello all
[06:39] <TRAVISg> I have a question anyone happen to be up?
[07:10] <bkerensa> TRAVISg: Yes
[07:10] <bkerensa> I'm here for a few more minutes whats up?
[07:13] <TRAVISg__> no worries I'll catch up later gotta go to bed


[07:29]  * KombuchaKip reminds everyone Sunday is Mother's day in case they forgot.
[07:32]  * KombuchaKip should have clarified that this is at least the case if you're in Canada.