[01:14] <Neffirithion> Hello! I am trying to install ubuntu via a preseed with some software preinstalled, I was told in the main ubuntu chat that they didn't cover that there, so I apologize if I'm in the wrong place but was wondering if anyone could lend a hand?
[01:37] <tsimpson> Neffirithion: you probably want to look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[01:38] <Neffirithion> thanks, I was just reading that... I was initially looking for a way to install a .deb with a late_command, do you know of anyway to do that easily? if not... I am reading how to modify the pool structure
[01:40] <tsimpson> it would be easier to just create the custom live CD, otherwise you'd need to modify the installer directly or add some other hack
[01:41] <Neffirithion> well thats what I am trying to do, create a custom install cd (not so much a live cd though, because it needs to be an unattended install)
[01:41] <Neffirithion> I was initially looking at having the late_install command install the deb in my preseed... but I cannot figure out the syntax it wants for the life of me
[01:45] <tsimpson> Neffirithion: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization should help you create a custom alternate (text) installer CD
[15:07] <bdmurray> I've requested a merge of a d-i branch to resolve a bitesize bug at https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/debian-installer/bug-758942/+merge/67559
[15:08] <bdmurray> hrm and apparently I chose the wrong target branch
[15:15] <bdmurray> this is better https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/debian-installer/bug-758942/+merge/67560
[15:24] <cjwatson> bdmurray: you need to update build/boot/x86/help.xml too
[15:25] <bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, doing so
[15:27] <bdmurray> pushed
[15:29] <cjwatson> cool, thanks, will merge
[15:30] <CIA-37> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1489 ubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs): merge lp:~brian-murray/debian-installer/bug-758942
[15:35] <CIA-37> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1490 ubuntu/build/boot/x86/po/ (33 files): po4a
[15:35] <CIA-37> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1491 ubuntu/debian/changelog: use UNRELEASED, as this hasn't been uploaded yet


[07:47] <FourDollars> Hi, how can I see the debug messages for ubiquity in live system?
[07:49] <FourDollars> I tried to execute "sh -c ''ubiquity --debug gtk_ui'" in gnome-terminal but there is no debug message at all.
[07:52] <FourDollars> Oops, never mind. I found it at /var/log/installer/debug.
[12:52] <fish_> is there an easy way to add dkms modules to the ubuntu installer?
[12:52] <fish_> or do I have to buuld the modules myself and add them to the initrd?
[15:14] <fish_> actualyl I just realize therre is already a module in the kernel package but it's not included in the installer initrd
[15:14] <fish_> neither can I select it in the raid driver prompt
[15:15] <fish_> oh wait.. it's there for 3.13.0-24-generic, but the trusty-updates installer kernel is 3.13.0-54
[15:18] <fish_> ah no, sorry wrong suite. it's in trusty-updates
[15:21] <fish_> ..but only for ppc *sigh*
[15:23] <cyphermox> which module?
[15:23] <fish_> cyphermox: pm80xx
[15:25] <cyphermox> typically all the drivers you need are included in the kernel; from there it may depend what media you use to install
[15:25] <fish_> cyphermox: are there multiple variants of the installer initrd?
[15:26] <fish_> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty-updates/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ubuntu-installer/amd64/ <- I'm using this and it doesn't include the module
[15:36] <cyphermox> nah, that seems like the right one, unless you want to use the ubuntu-server iso.
[15:36] <fish_> I want to install ubuntu servers, yes ;)
[15:37] <cyphermox> sure, but there is either this link you pasted, which is the netboot installer, or you can use the big iso file that doesn't require network.
[15:38] <fish_> requiring network is fine, I just need it to load or include the raid controller module
[15:38] <cyphermox> when you run the netboot installer, you should be asked at some point to install extra installer components
[15:38] <cyphermox> from there I would expect pm80xx to be in scsi-modules or something
[15:40] <fish_> it just says no disk drive detected and pm80xx isn't included in the driver list
[15:40] <fish_> but as I said, looks like there is no kernel module for the current trusty-updates installer
[15:54] <cyphermox> yes, there are, but some aren't just installed automatically
[15:54] <cyphermox> if you go back to the menu, you should see that you can download extra installer components
[15:55] <cyphermox> from that list, there ought to be 'scsi-modules' which I think is the extra bits you need for pm80xx to work
[15:58] <cyphermox>  OTOH, it may be that the module just isn't included at all
[15:59] <cyphermox> fish_: best would be to ask on #ubuntu-kernel for a kernel, or file a bug... it looks like it's maybe not in any of the -modules packages for d-i
[15:59] <cyphermox> otherwise, it may be worth trying to use the server cd image:
[16:00] <fish_> but the server cd image is, well, a cd image and I need a initrd to pxe boot
[16:00] <cyphermox> http://releases.ubuntu.com/trusty/ubuntu-14.04.4-server-amd64.iso
[16:00] <cyphermox> hrm
[16:01] <cyphermox> there probably wouldn't be a difference there then
[16:01] <fish_> I'll patch the initrd myself, that should work
[16:01] <fish_> just need to figure out where to get those drivers.. ;)
[16:01] <fish_> at least I found the one for the other raid controller we have
[16:03] <cyphermox> fish_: you can file a bug or ask on #ubuntu-kernel to get the driver you need added to the d-i initrds, if that helps
[16:05] <fish_> cyphermox: but the driver isn't even available in the regular kernel debs
[16:09] <cyphermox> ok
[16:09] <cyphermox> all the more reason to ask the kernel team about it :)
[16:09] <cyphermox> sorry, I don't touch the kernel itself
[16:57] <CarlFK> how do I install onto an odroid c2? (and no saying "download some random binary image..." :p
[16:59] <CarlFK> well.. the installer kernel is a binary image I guess..  but trusted source so it's ok.  I guess.
[18:36] <cyphermox> CarlFK: sorry, the only answer is "download some random binary image". ARM devices are fun that way; they don't exactly run an installer in the straight sense of it
[18:37] <CarlFK> cyphermox: so where do those images come from?
[18:37] <CarlFK> like... how are they built ?
[18:37] <cyphermox> CarlFK: what you'll probably want to do for installing Ubuntu Touch is following the steps at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[18:38] <cyphermox> we build images more or less the same way for everything, there is a root filesystem being built, which you install along with other things like the kernel and initrd
[18:40] <cyphermox> where the images are for supported devices, we build them on Launchpad, for community-driven ports, people build them however they want -- we don't really have control over what might happen there
[18:47] <CarlFK> cyphermox: somewhere is a script that builds the ubuntu-desktop cd image ... I am pretty sure I have seen it.   Is there something similar for touch?
[18:49] <CarlFK> (and really I am trying to make a fairly minimal install for the odroid c2 - result will be a  headless router
[19:33] <cyphermox> it all uses the same scripts and same build process; part of it is Launchpad, part of it is lp:ubuntu-cdimage, part of it is lp:debian-cd, and still some of it is livecd-rootfs, but I would suggest you follow the Porting guide from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
[19:33] <cyphermox> that will list just what you need to roll your own image for that device.
[19:53] <CarlFK> weird.   that page loads bits at time, starting with "This page does not exist or has been moved. If you feel that this is an error, please file a bug."
[19:53] <CarlFK> and then like 5 seconds later.. that is replaced with content
[19:55] <CarlFK> but yeah, thats about what I was looking for - thanks


[17:01] <NekitaNet> Hi all, was in yesterday and figured out the issue I'm having installing a fresh install of any Ubuntu version after Focal; The repo packages are being compresses by libzstd1 and that has a know bug throwing bad checksums; It seems these bad checksums have crept into the repositories and make installing (atm) for example linux-lowlatency,
[17:01] <NekitaNet> nvidia-driver-525 and packages within xubuntu-desktop error prone or even impossible. Yes, my system is tested for function; perfect storage, memory, perfect CPU (with now some new cooling paste) and a good motherboard; It's a known bug for people who work with large numbers of zstd compressed files.
[17:07] <cjwatson> It sounds very unlikely that you'd be the first to have noticed this if it's been that way for years ... but at any rate you'd want to report that on Launchpad so that it can be analysed
[17:40] <NekitaNet> I would think so as well cjwatson; However; going by my experience (with now a fresh install of Focul that installed without issue, since the repo
[17:42] <NekitaNet> ..since the repo's employ xz and not zstd only after Focul) it's clear there's something up and wrong. Either with dpkg, the libzstd1 library used to compress debs on the repo side; Both post Focul.
[17:42] <NekitaNet> Well, there's a typo; zstd and not xz compression after Focul
[17:44] <NekitaNet> Anyway; I'm back on Focul for that machine. Would have liked to enjoy the benefits of 22.04, but having a working machine after futzing about for 3+ evenings is more important right now.
[17:45] <cjwatson> Certainly not a mirror issue, and I've been running post-focal (not focul) for years.
[17:45] <cjwatson> I'm very confident that we don't have bad checksums in the repository to this sort of extent.
[17:46] <cjwatson> I believe you that you're seeing something wrong - I just don't think that particular diagnosis is probable given the number of entities (both human and machine) that would have had to miss it for years.
[17:46] <NekitaNet> My (the official) dpkg checksum checks tell me different for enough critical packages! :-)
[17:46] <cjwatson> File a bug¬
[17:47] <cjwatson> With as many details as you can
[17:47] <NekitaNet> Well, the human response has been clear: It's very very very likely (just) your system!
[17:47] <cjwatson> dpkg's checksum checks may also not be quite what you think they are
[17:48] <cjwatson> Depending on exactly what you mean
[17:48] <NekitaNet> I'm not going to redefine words with you hahaha :)
[17:48] <cjwatson> dpkg --verify in particular can be a bit strange around things like conffiles
[17:49] <cjwatson> I'm not asking to play word games, just to be precise
[17:49] <cjwatson> (But it's also Friday evening here and pretty much finishing-up time ...)
[17:52] <NekitaNet> In a nutshell; there was a changeover for the Ubuntu debs on the repo's and dpkg was altered to switch over from xz to zstd compression. libzstd1 (as used to create those debs) is known to generate bad checksums once in a while. I'm just lucky enough to install enough critical debs so the entire install is borked.
[17:53] <NekitaNet> Unlikely yes, did it happen (and did I not believe what I was seeing, even doubting my own hardware) yes.
[17:55] <NekitaNet> From what I've read surrounding package builders and repo creators they just lowered the debug level when creating the checksum for the packages; That doesn't mean there's not there; Just the likelyhood of them being critical is not high.
[17:55] <NekitaNet> Anyways, enjoy your evening and weekend
[18:02] <NekitaNet> Btw, one more point; Why am I not getting the same errors on 20.04 that's using xz compressed packages while I am getting them on every thing after that release that's libzstd1 compressed? Same hardware eh ;-) Once again: Have a great weekend.


[05:30] <chesedo> awesome, thanks guys
[06:46] <magespawn> good morning
[06:47] <pavlushka> Good morning magespawn
[16:47] <magespawn> later all
[16:48] <MaNI> you can just register a .co.za at hetzner or something without hosting, anywhere really doesn't matter to much
[16:49] <MaNI> even e.g. godaddy or places like that


[16:00] <newz2000> Hi everyone
[16:00] <newz2000> it's time to go on the start page
[16:17] <qense> hello
[16:20] <Erik_J> newz2000, currently we are very bussy that's why you didn't see more results.
[16:20] <newz2000> hola qense
[16:20] <newz2000> hey Erik_J
[16:21] <Erik_J> Hey
[16:21] <newz2000> I'm patient, I can wait. :-)
[16:21] <newz2000> Erik_J: just a warning, at the end of October we're going to change the homepage banner for the new release (as is tradition)
[16:22] <newz2000> probably by then you'll be to the paper-mockup stage, but just in case it may cause your testers to have a diff experience
[16:30] <Erik_J> is there a bzr repo with the ubuntu website? I need a easy way to make prototypes
[16:30] <newz2000> Erik_J: no, the website uses a content management system
[16:30] <Erik_J> making paper prototypes is boring and I have to do a lot of duplicate work
[16:31] <newz2000> Erik_J: you may just want to take screenshots of key pages and edit them in a graphics program
[16:31] <newz2000> you could then use image maps to make regions of the page clickable without actually writing a bunch of html
[17:16] <Erik_J> That is the best solution I think
[20:05] <omegamormegil> www.ubuntu.com > Get Involved link > Contribute section has nothing about helping with bugs or testing.  Are there plans to change that?  I keep hearing people talk about how more people need to get into iso testing and helping with bugs, and this seems like an obvious way to advertise.
[20:05] <newz2000> omegamormegil: good idea, I'm surprised its not there
[20:06]  * newz2000 looks
[20:06] <omegamormegil> bugs is mentioned, but it's extremely non-helpful.
[20:06] <newz2000> that's true for a lot of our content atm
[20:06] <omegamormegil> in the developer section.  But that only links to developer documentation.
[20:06] <newz2000> content is my first priority for jaunty cycle
[20:07] <omegamormegil> Just throwing links to the relevant wiki pages in there would be awesome.
[20:07] <newz2000> I think that linking to the testing section is a good idea because it explains the testing process as well as how to report bugs
[20:08] <newz2000> btw, I don't think I've met you yet omegamormegil, are you involved in the community?
[20:11] <omegamormegil> more or less.  I haven't done much on IRC before.  I try to help a tiny bit with bugs on launchpad, and I keep up with a few of the mailing lists.  I really don't have tons of spare time.  I would love to get more involved in a lot of different areas, but I find that there is a high learning curve.
[20:11] <newz2000> sure, well, I consider little things like this a big help, so I appreciate the feedback. ;-)
[20:11] <omegamormegil> great.
[20:14] <omegamormegil> One of the things I'd like to get involved in, is the aforementioned high learning curve.  The biggest reason I've found that the curve exists, is that it's hard to find information relevant to getting started.  Also, much of the information available is hard to understand without lots of semi-related knowledge, and is daunting for a newbie.  I've been using Ubuntu for almost two years, and I'm still working on getti
[20:14] <omegamormegil> ng anywhere understanding bug triage.  Time is the biggest issue for me
[20:15] <newz2000> is your plan to help modify the website content to make the process more clear?
[20:16] <newz2000> (I'm not trying to push you into something - just curious)
[20:17] <omegamormegil> The website is the first place a lot of people are going to be looking when they are trying to find direction.  I think having the website point at easy to understand primers would be a great help.
[20:17] <newz2000> I agree wholeheartedly
[20:17] <newz2000> if you have some 2 min fixes you'd like to propose, dropping by here and letting me know is great
[20:18] <newz2000> if you think bigger changes are necessary I have a different suggestion
[20:19] <newz2000> (btw, I just updated http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate )
[20:19] <newz2000> fortunately there was a cool looking icon on the testing wiki page. :-)
[20:20] <omegamormegil> awesome.  That's been bugging me for years :)
[20:20] <newz2000> for more elaborate changes, I'm absolutely open to suggestions. Probably the best thing to do is create a page under http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website that has the suggested changes, then report it to the mailing list. We can then hash it out and copy the chagnes over to the main site.
[20:59] <omegamormegil> Hey, I've been looking through some of the documentation, and noticed this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[21:00] <omegamormegil> It has some redundancy.  Perhaps it should be merged with http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[21:00] <omegamormegil> http://www.ubuntu.com/community links to Documentation and Support twice.
[21:01] <newz2000> yes, it does have some redundancy, but that's well beyond the threshold of "more elaborate changes" I think
[21:01] <newz2000> You can never have too many links to documentation and support. ;-)
[21:01]  * newz2000 adds two more for good measure
[21:02] <newz2000> not to make lite of your comments, I'm happy to discuss ways to improve this, but probably the best way is to mock it up on the wiki and take it to the list
[21:03] <newz2000> you can create a page called https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Content/Community
[21:03] <newz2000> and copy and paste in the content as you think it should be
[21:04] <newz2000> I wouldn't worry too much about formatting (it is a wiki - hard to format)
[21:04] <omegamormegil> Oh, I understand.  I guess I didn't see the threshhold of "more elaborate changes".
[21:04] <mdke> hi all
[21:04] <newz2000> more than 2 - 5 min to implement is "more elaborate" I think
[21:04] <newz2000> hey mdke!
[21:05] <mdke> newz2000: I totally flunked on the suckerfish challenge :(
[21:05] <newz2000> ah, well, you are a lawyer, so you can make it up in tort
[21:05]  * newz2000 knows few legal terms
[21:05] <mdke> I'm a bit rubbish at tort too, but a lot better than at CSS
[21:06] <newz2000> :-) Can I help?
[21:06] <mdke> newz2000: well... if you have time
[21:06] <newz2000> tell me the prob (or show me) and we'll see
[21:07] <mdke> well, it's more of a start from scratch thing; I played around with a few implementations but none worked so I reverted my changes
[21:07] <mdke> i wasn't even sure of the right html, let alone css
[21:07] <newz2000> do you want me to describe the solution to you and let you give it a try?
[21:08] <mdke> newz2000: that might work :) the main problem I guess was that all the tutorials I followed were vertical dropdown menus, and this is rather different
[21:09] <newz2000> here's what to do
[21:09] <newz2000> create a list with one item, the item will be always visible and will be what you hover over to show the menu.

Show it

[21:09] <mdke> yep
[21:10] <newz2000> before the closing
 add a div that is the menu you want to appear
[21:10] <newz2000> so
cool stuff here

[21:10] <mdke> can there be a list inside the div?
[21:10] <newz2000> yes
[21:10] <mdke> great
[21:10] <newz2000>
...
 is fine
[21:10] <newz2000> Make that look just like you want it to when the menu is open
[21:11]  * newz2000 needs to test one thing before he goes any further
[21:11] <mdke> when you say "before the closing
"
[21:11] <mdke> do you mean "before the closing
"?
[21:11] <newz2000> go ahead
[21:11] <newz2000> no
[21:11] <newz2000> inside the

[21:11] <mdke> ah, ok, Iwas going so wrong :)
[21:12] <newz2000> ok, that's the hard part
[21:12] <newz2000> once that's done, you will hide the editbar like this:
[21:12] <newz2000> (using CSS)
[21:13] <newz2000> #showbar ul#editbar { display: none; }
[21:13] <newz2000> #showbar:hoever ul#editbar { display: block; }
[21:13] <newz2000> that's it pretty much
[21:17] <mdke> hmm
[21:18] <mdke> ah, hang on
[21:18] <mdke> above where you say "
... is fine"
[21:19] <newz2000> s/hoever/hover/
[21:19] <mdke> is that with the div wrapped around it, or without
[21:19] <newz2000> you don't need a div if you don't want one
[21:19] <newz2000> so here's code you can use...
[21:19] <mdke> it's working now
[21:20] <newz2000> ah, cool
[21:20] <mdke> wowsers
[21:20] <mdke> one issue
[21:21] <mdke> you know the moin editbar has a "More Actions" dropdown (or dropup, in this case)? I lose that if I try to click on an item outside the editbar because it goes back to display: none
[21:21] <newz2000> ah, crud
[21:21] <newz2000> those select lists are nothing but trouble
[21:22] <newz2000> I would say we're either a) back to the drawing board, or b) going to require javascript
[21:23] <newz2000> hmm.
[21:23] <mdke> how acceptable is javascript?
[21:23] <newz2000> I'm fine with it
[21:23] <newz2000> You could do this:
[21:23] <mdke> and it would make the thing look prettier too?
[21:24] <newz2000> well, I'm not good at the prettier part, but we could get it working and ask the webteam for help with that
[21:24] <newz2000> I like javascript that degrades nicely so we could do this:
[21:25] <newz2000> set the edit bar to be position: absolute in css
[21:25] <newz2000> that will make it show at the bottom of the page all the time
[21:25] <newz2000> Then this "show editbar" link you have (currently position: fixed) could use javascript to change the editbar to position:fixed making it come up to the bottom of the screen.
[21:26] <newz2000> clicking it again would send it to the bottom of the page again
[21:26] <newz2000> the benefit of this is that if js is disabled the editbar is there, just at the bottom
[21:26] <mdke> so it wouldn't depend on hover at all?
[21:26] <newz2000> right
[21:26] <mdke> that sounds perfect
[21:26] <newz2000> and the code is easy!
[21:27] <newz2000> I'll pastebin working example code, just a sec...
[21:28] <mdke> I might commit where I have got to, for safe keeping
[21:28] <newz2000> good idea
[21:34] <newz2000> mdke: http://pastebin.com/m638d086f
[21:34] <newz2000> a few things
[21:34] <newz2000> copy and paste from the text area at the bottom of the page to avoid the line numbers
[21:34] <newz2000> the style="" in the second ul is important
[21:35] <newz2000> I've not tested the innerHTML parts - that should just change the word from Show editbar to Hide editbar and back again
[21:35] <newz2000> </end few things>
[21:35] <mdke> what is the elipsis in line 5?
[21:35] <newz2000> replace that with the editbar content
[21:36] <newz2000> oh
[21:36] <newz2000> those are for the rest of the html
[21:36] <mdke> isn't that line 7?
[21:36] <newz2000> because editbar is position: absolute it may go wherever you like. it can go right after line 3 or at the end of the template.
[21:37] <mdke> I'll post you the html I have now for the editbar function in the theme
[21:37] <mdke>         html = u'

Show Editbar
\n%s\n

\n' % items
[21:38] <mdke> can I get them both into that line?
[21:38] <newz2000> yes
[21:38] <newz2000> I added a span around the word show so that it can be changed with the word hide when appropriate
[21:39] <mdke> ok, I'll give it a try
[21:39] <mdke> id="showbar" doesn't appear anywhere, is that normal?
[21:40] <newz2000> yeah, not needed now
[21:40] <mdke> ok
[21:40] <mdke> now it looks like this, I'll try it
[21:40] <mdke>         html = u'<

Show editting options

\n%s\n
\n' % items
[21:40] <newz2000> extra < at the beginning
[21:41] <mdke> ah, thanks
[21:41] <newz2000> actually more extras stuff...
[21:41] <mdke> I'll put the javascript in the footer or something
[21:42] <newz2000> html = u'

Show editting options

\n%s\n
\n' % items
[21:42] <newz2000> I think that's right
[21:43] <mdke> how does it pick up the #showbar css?
[21:43] <newz2000> you may need to add id="showbar" in there if you want to style it. :-)
[21:43]  * newz2000 new it was there for something
[21:44] <mdke> well, i at least need the position: fixed thing which is in your pastebin
[21:44] <newz2000> that's correct, in that case it should be on the ul
[21:45] <newz2000> the first ul
[21:45] <mdke> gotcha
[21:49] <mdke> hmm. Doesn't seem to work as expected
[21:50] <mdke> clicking "Show editing" works fine, but when you click "Hide editing", the bar is in the middle of the page
[21:50] <mdke> or rather, at the bottom of the page if scrolled up to the top, but in the middle when you scroll down
[21:50] <newz2000> does it change its position when you click hide?
[21:50] <newz2000> or does nothing happen
[21:51] <mdke> clicking hide produces the problem
[21:51] <newz2000> after         obj.style.position = 'absolute'; add
[21:51] <newz2000>         obj.style.bottom = '0';
[21:51] <newz2000> in the javascript
[21:51]  * newz2000 is guessing
[21:52] <mdke> same issue
[21:52] <mdke> do you have a desktop wiki?
[21:53] <newz2000> not at hand, but I can probably set one up pronto if you share your code
[21:53] <mdke> I'll commit again
[21:54] <mdke> with moin 1.6.4, you just grab the regular tarball and run ./moin.py
[21:54] <newz2000> my testing vm works I think
[21:54] <mdke> alright, whatever works for you :)
[21:55] <newz2000> where's your code?
[21:55] <mdke> https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme
[22:00] <newz2000> ok, I think I see what you mean
[22:00] <newz2000> so before you do anything it's in the middle of nowhere
[22:00] <newz2000> then you click show and it snaps into place
[22:01] <mdke> right
[22:01] <newz2000> then you click hide and it goes back to the middle again
[22:01] <newz2000> interesting
[22:06] <Erik_J> Have a nice day
[22:06] <newz2000> mdke: I will dig into this further and send you a patch
[22:06] <mdke> newz2000: *hugs*
[22:07] <mdke> thanks a lot dude
[22:07] <newz2000> no prob


[19:53] <Janjiss> hello
[23:06] <JVilsack> Is anyone here for the Ubuntu Marketing meeting proposed by Martin Owens on 22-October?  I'm not seeing anything on the fridge calendar, and its a bit too quiet in here for the meeting to be taking place.
[23:07] <JVilsack> If not, I'll assume said meeting has been aborted.
[23:25] <popey> JVilsack: shame :(
[23:26] <JVilsack> Agreed.  :(  Thanks for trying those that did show up.  Sorry the moderator was a no show.
[23:28] <popey> JVilsack: seems the marketing team is destined to fail
[23:29] <cprofitt> popey, why is that?
[23:29] <cprofitt> We need to have a strong marketing effort...
[23:29] <JVilsack> Failure would intone that there was an attempted effort in the first place. :)  Its unfortunate.
[23:30] <cprofitt> JVilsack, what can you and I do to stoke the fires then...?
[23:30] <popey> cprofitt: why is the team destined to fail?
[23:30] <popey> lack of action/meetings/leadership in no particular order
[23:31]  * cprofitt ponders
[23:31] <cprofitt> popey, I will have to look in to that...
[23:32] <JVilsack> Long story short:  the community effort marketing-wise is failing.  Ubuntu's grassroots remains a large grassroots, yet individual effort.  There is no concerted message aggregation or material development from the communal side, because those who have been there for a while abhor hierarchy.
[23:32] <popey> cprofitt: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/
[23:32] <JVilsack> Check out the mailing-list.  There is a lot of information in it :)
[23:32] <cprofitt> I really think we need to drive that team... I do a lot locally with presenting at non-Linux conventions and events... so I would like to assist with making that a concerted effort
[23:32] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2009-October/003711.html that thread specifically
[23:32] <cprofitt> I will.
[23:33] <JVilsack> Please feel free to drop me a line cprofitt.  I've tried three times to get this thing started and its met with heavy resistance each time.   But you can email me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>any time.
[23:33] <popey> JVilsack: resistence in what way?
[23:33] <JVilsack> In the interim, I've got to go image some servers.  Thanks for trying!  Thanks Popey!
[23:33] <popey> ok
[23:33] <cprofitt> JVilsack, I will...
[23:39] <cprofitt> popey, that was a good post
[23:39] <popey> which?
[23:40] <cprofitt> it aligns with one of my thoughts that I shared with Greg DeKoenigsberg
[23:40] <cprofitt> the individual one you had me read
[23:40] <cprofitt> to me focusing marketing on the positive advantages of FOSS in general will help raise awareness to Ubuntu and other distros
[23:41] <cprofitt> if we can skim 1% off the people using Windows it would have a far greater impact than taking 1% of the current Linux users and moving them to our distro
[23:41] <cprofitt> in that sense... I could care less about the distro they use... just that they become aware of a choice beyond Windows and OS X
[23:42] <cprofitt> docs reply appears to be square on as well.
[23:43] <cprofitt> other than his thought that activism should not be included.
[23:44] <cprofitt> popey, is there a current leader of the marketing team?
[23:44] <popey> no
[23:44] <popey> there is of course a marketing department within canonical
[23:45] <cprofitt> is there a historical reason behind there not being a marketing team leader?
[23:45] <popey> anyone who steps up needs thick skin
[23:45] <popey> marketing by committee doesnt work
[23:46] <cprofitt> true... true...
[23:46] <joaopinto> wouldn't Canonical marketing overlap with Ubuntu marketing ?
[23:47] <cprofitt> I just was not sure if there was some reason for there being no leader... mutiny... Anarcho-Syndicated Commune... other
[23:47] <cprofitt> joaopinto, I would think there would be an overlap...
[23:47] <cprofitt> but there still needs to be some coordination for the community part of it...
[23:47] <popey> joaopinto: yes, to some degree
[23:48] <popey> canonical marketing of course also has to market canonical corporate services
[23:48] <cprofitt> +1 popey
[23:49] <joaopinto> Canonical's marketing team is not very popular from a community relations perspective, an Ubuntu Community Marketting team should have Canonical's Marketing blessing
[23:49] <cprofitt> I would think that there is a difference to corporate shill marketing and grassroots user group type marketing
[23:51] <cprofitt> I hope that did not come off in the wrong way


[18:00] <jdstrand> hi!
[18:01] <mdeslaur> hello!
[18:01] <jjohansen> \o
[18:01] <tyhicks> Hi
[18:01] <sarnold> o/
[18:02] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  4 18:02:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:02] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:02] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:02] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:02] <jdstrand> UDS is this week. Be sure to check the schedule for things to attend and subscribe to blueprints
[18:03] <jdstrand> atm, we are leading just one session on webkit, but there is a lot of others to attend
[18:03]  * jdstrand is leading the webkit one
[18:04] <jdstrand> we decided not to rehash the stuff we are currently working on and will just plan for the months based on what we have, since it is all still relevant
[18:04] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:04] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:04] <jdstrand> I'm on community this week
[18:05] <jdstrand> this week is mostly about planning and UDS for me
[18:05] <jdstrand> I'm also on the books to patch pilot (I may do that late in the week)
[18:05] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:05] <mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week! :P
[18:06] <mdeslaur> this week, I'm working on python-django, and will be attending UDS
[18:06] <mdeslaur> I have a couple of bugs to investigate
[18:06] <mdeslaur> and will pick something else off the CVE list time-premitting
[18:06] <mdeslaur> that's it for me
[18:06] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[18:06] <sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week.
[18:07] <sbeattie> Still working on the display manager prototype.
[18:07] <sbeattie> I'll also be prepping for ad attending UDS.
[18:07] <sbeattie> s/ad/and/
[18:07] <sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
[18:08] <tyhicks> I need to do some prep for UDS today (and obviously attend it tue and wed)
[18:08] <tyhicks> I am finishing the kernel and libapparmor query interface patches
[18:08] <tyhicks> That's probably about it
[18:08] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[18:09] <jjohansen> well I am prepping for and attending UDS this week
[18:10] <jjohansen> after which I will be syncing up with tyhicks on the new query interface and testing dbus with the base socket labeling
[18:10] <tyhicks> Oh yeah, I'll also be updating the dbus code to use the socket based labeling
[18:11] <tyhicks> jjohansen: I see that a new raring kernel is out, so I'll also rebase our apparmor patches in the dbus-dev PPA
[18:11] <jjohansen> and if there is time I will also work on fixing some of the stacking problems when the stack is split across a namespace
[18:11] <jjohansen> sarnold: your up
[18:12] <sarnold> I'm on triage this week, uds of course, and going through John's patches (yay, I'm past rcu :)
[18:12] <sarnold> I'm looking forward to some tyhicks's patches too :D nom nom nom
[18:12] <sarnold> jdstrand: back to you
[18:13] <jdstrand> thanks
[18:13] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:13] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:13] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/beaker.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnustep-base.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cobbler.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/squidclamav.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qmail.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:13] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:21] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:21] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  4 18:21:42 2013 UTC.
[18:21] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-18.02.moin.txt
[18:21] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-18.02.html
[18:21] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
[18:21] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
[18:21] <tyhicks> thanks!
[18:22] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[18:22] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
[18:22] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[20:58] <kees> \o/
[20:58] <pitti> hello
[20:58] <jbicha> o/
[20:59]  * pitti moderates soren's apology
[20:59] <kees> based on email, cjwatson is not available for this meeting.
[21:00] <kees> ah, okay, soren too.
[21:00] <kees> #startmeeting
[21:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  4 21:00:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[21:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:00] <kees> so, Apologies from cjwatson and soren. stgraber, here?
[21:01] <kees> [topic] Action review
[21:01] <kees> seems like UbuntuKylin is on its way. were there any unresolved actions from that?
[21:02] <pitti> I'm still not fully happy with the fcitx thing
[21:03] <pitti> but I guess that's a matter for debate and decision/testing within the Kylin community
[21:03] <pitti> the other issues were clarified AFAICS
[21:03] <kees> but it's in progress, right? I guess I mean, are there any things the TB needs to examine during this meeting?
[21:03] <kees> okay, coll
[21:03] <kees> er, cool
[21:04] <kees> [TOPIC] Brain storm review
[21:04]  * stgraber waves
[21:04] <kees> I didn't see any new replies...
[21:04] <pitti> kees: not that I c an see
[21:04] <pitti> kees: no; TBH, I think at this point we should call this round "done"
[21:04] <kees> okay
[21:04] <pitti> but wrt. to this, I don't think that even this round was terribly useful
[21:04] <kees> yeah, it seemed pretty quiet.
[21:05] <pitti> even the most favorite one only got some 60 votes or so
[21:05] <kees> should we do one more cycle starting in may and if it's similarly quiet, just drop it?
[21:05] <pitti> we could also bury it now and see whether anyone complains
[21:05] <pitti> but we should perhaps do this when we have more TB members
[21:06] <pitti> bonsoir stgraber
[21:06] <kees> agreed. let's bump it until we have >3 at the meeting :)
[21:06] <kees> [TOPIC] Scan the mailing list archive
[21:06] <kees> only thing here might be the release cycle changes
[21:07] <pitti> I think we should defer this until after UDS
[21:07] <kees> yeah, agreed.
[21:07] <pitti> although I guess most things already popped up on the ML
[21:07] <pitti> (which was actually a really good discussion IMHO)
[21:07] <kees> I'm going to go through the ubuntu-devel thread a little more carefully and see if I can comment usefully on any of it
[21:08] <stgraber> I believe the plan is for someone to e-mail the TB with a real proposal shortly after UDS, we can pick it up from there
[21:08] <kees> ok
[21:08] <kees> I also see "Flavor Review Request for Ubuntu GNOME"
[21:08] <pitti> oh right, I was meaning to reply to that, but forgot, sorry
[21:08] <kees> yeah, me too :P
[21:09] <stgraber> ah yeah, jbicha poked me about that one on IRC... should have followed up too
[21:09] <kees> I'm generally in favor of it. I'd like to see the same for a MATE flavor once it's all the way in Debian too.
[21:09] <stgraber> and slangasek asked me to check the current state of Kylin and start creating the packageset and matching teams for it
[21:09] <jbicha> hi :) the rolling thing is a bit disruptive but I think we still want to go ahead with our proposal for now
[21:09] <pitti> hey jbicha
[21:09] <mdz> kees, MATE?
[21:09] <kees> mdz: yes, Gnome 2 fork. It's wonderful.
[21:10] <pitti> jbicha: with "All of the packages we need have been in Ubuntu since last September." you mean all the build deps for the gnome3 PPA?
[21:10] <pitti> jbicha: as I understand it, the gnome PPA is actually delivering what you want, or do you envision the current raring gnome (i. e. mostly 3.6) as that remix, and just use different default settings with it?
[21:10] <jbicha> pitti: I meant things like ubuntu-gnome-meta and ubuntu-gnome-default-settings (which contains our minimal artwork)
[21:11] <pitti> jbicha: ok, so ubuntu gnome == what's in the distro, and the PPA is the staging area for contributors still?
[21:12] <jbicha> the PPA does not provide us with daily image builds or recognition as an equal flavor with like Kubuntu or Xubuntu which is nice for marketing purposes
[21:13] <jbicha> there is demand for images with the GNOME3 PPA pre-installed...I don't know if we want to discuss that at this meeting?
[21:14] <pitti> so in general I'm very favorable of this; we should cross-check it against the list of requirements for flavours
[21:14] <pitti> stgraber, do you happen to have that link handy? ^
[21:14] <kees> yeah, no PPAs in an official image, please. :)
[21:14] <pitti> ^ + 1
[21:15] <jbicha> kees: ok, I wasn't planning to discuss that today either :)
[21:15] <stgraber> pitti: one sec
[21:15] <pitti> jbicha: but for the RR we'll eventually have the same problem of having these kind of staging areas which are eventually landed in the distro; I guess that'll use a very similar model like the gnome3 ppa
[21:15] <stgraber> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors
[21:16] <jbicha> by the way we do have a staging ppa now too for stuff that isn't ready for the Ubuntu archives https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+packages?field.series_filter=raring
[21:16] <kees> stgraber: thanks. yeah, it seems like this qualifies easily.
[21:17] <pitti> community interest (point 1) is certainly there
[21:17] <pitti> jbicha: did ricotz, darkxst, and you sign the CoC? (I assume so)
[21:17] <jbicha> the GNOME3 PPA was for stuff that we thought was ready for Ubuntu but sharing the archives with Unity meant we had to wait longer
[21:17] <pitti> jbicha is in ~u-desktop, so that covers upload
[21:17] <jbicha> pitti: yes all 3 of us have
[21:18] <stgraber> yeah, I'm pretty sure that Ubuntu GNOME qualifies.
[21:18] <pitti> and all three of you have been active for a long time already
[21:18] <stgraber> they'll still need to talk to the cdimage team to make sure that there's enough space and resources to build the images, but that's a separate matter
[21:18] <pitti> "follow release process" is somewhat in the air now :)
[21:18] <pitti> but given that GNOME defined our original one, that's also ok :)
[21:18] <pitti> right
[21:19] <pitti> so as for "Guidelines to become and remain a recognized flavor", I think you're all set
[21:20] <pitti> so +1 from me
[21:20] <kees> yeah, I've emailed my +1.
[21:20] <kees> sabdfl gave his +1. mdz, stgraber: ?
[21:21] <mdz> I think i need to abstain, lacking context
[21:21] <mdz> multitasking right now also
[21:21] <stgraber> +1
[21:22] <kees> what is the next technical step? emailing IS?
[21:22] <pitti> I think so; we need sign-off that there's enough space, and then ask the release team to set up daily isos
[21:23] <stgraber> so I'm going to go ahead and create packagesets + upload teams for both Kylin and UbuntuGnome
[21:23] <stgraber> the respective teams can then apply with the DMB to get upload rights
[21:23] <kees> okay
[21:23] <stgraber> if they wish to get daily builds, they'll have to contact the cdimage team to check for space and resources for the build
[21:23]  * kees nods
[21:24] <stgraber> and the cdimage team may ask IS to check for space on the build machines, mirrors, tapes if required
[21:24] <kees> [ACTION] stgraber to create packagesets + upload teams for Kylin and UbuntuGnome
[21:24] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to create packagesets + upload teams for Kylin and UbuntuGnome
[21:24] <stgraber> so I think we just want to highlight in the minutes that we have two new flavours, point to their wiki pages and I'll work with them to get everything setup
[21:25] <kees> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs
[21:25] <kees> sounds good, yeah
[21:25] <kees> we have no open bugs...
[21:25] <stgraber> we don't add new flavours everyday, so I expect I'll have to make part of the process as I go ;)
[21:25] <kees> [TOPIC] other business?
[21:25] <kees> heh
[21:26] <kees> *crickets*
[21:26] <kees> next chair? mdz?
[21:26] <pitti> nothing from me
[21:27] <JackYu> hi, I am Jack from UbuntuKylin team. Is there anything we should go ahead?
[21:27] <kees> JackYu: I think you're okay for the moment. stgraber will be pushing some buttons to finalize things.
[21:27] <stgraber> JackYu: I think we have everything we need to proceed and start setting up your flavour
[21:28] <kees> mdz: if the next meeting time isn't good for being chair, feel free to update the wiki. :) I'll mark you down for now.
[21:28] <JackYu> Great. Thanks!
[21:28] <kees> I think that's it for this time. Anything else?
[21:29] <mdz> kees, it's fine, thanks and sorry
[21:29] <kees> heh
[21:29] <kees> np
[21:29] <kees> alright everyone, thanks!
[21:29] <kees> #endmeeting
[21:29] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  4 21:29:17 2013 UTC.
[21:29] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-21.00.moin.txt
[21:29] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-21.00.html
[21:29] <mdz> I think it's during pycon but I'll manage
[21:29] <pitti> thanks everyone
[21:29] <pitti> good night!
[21:29] <kees> g'night!
[21:30] <JackYu> good night!


[08:13] <elfy> ochosi: not sure if you're seeing this - but since mucking about xfpm,it doesn't start auto with boot
[08:14] <Unit193> I'm supposed to ping about something so you remember something.
[08:14] <elfy> I remembered :)
[08:15] <elfy> went and had another read ...
[11:34] <bluesabre> micahg: fine by me :)
[11:36] <bluesabre> elfy: I'm on my way to/at work during the next meeting time
[11:38] <bluesabre> M-F, I'm not available between 12:00 UTC and 22:00 UTC, weekend I can make it to anything
[11:39] <elfy> ok
[11:40] <bluesabre> nice try though :)
[11:40] <bluesabre> Unit193: poke
[11:40] <elfy> bluesabre: was a bit stuck between wanting to get it in next week during day (which means Friday) and dentist midday for me
[11:41] <elfy> and weekends are generally not good as in the past they've been even more tumbleweedy ;)
[11:41] <bluesabre> :)
[11:41] <Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
[11:42] <bluesabre> hey Unit193
[11:42] <bluesabre> I see lots of pings from you
[11:44] <elfy> now you can sit back for an hour while he tries to remember what they were about
[11:44]  * bluesabre sits back
[11:45] <Unit193> Not really, I'm heading out.
[11:45] <bluesabre> ah
[11:45] <bluesabre> ok
[11:45] <bluesabre> ping me again later :)
[11:46] <Unit193> bluesabre: Some of it was scrollback in -devel.
[11:46]  * bluesabre may try to dig into the scrollback
[11:46] <elfy> that's on agenda with link to channel
[11:47] <Unit193> Also, new xfdashy, in a git but not svn.
[11:47] <bluesabre> ah
[11:47] <bluesabre> couldn't svn it? :(
[11:48] <Unit193> Well, there were 2 git and a svn to choose from.  I went with what I knew since it was pretty ready for it and git pushed. :P
[11:48] <bluesabre> :D
[11:49] <Unit193> Also, do you know where my watch is?
[11:50] <elfy> it's behind you ...
[11:51] <bluesabre> you left it in the debian/ folder
[11:56] <bluesabre> ok, I've got my todo list together for today now
[11:57] <bluesabre> going to watch tv/play games while I wake up, and be back in a little while
[15:28] <Unit193> bluesabre: No I used the last git repo I'd pushed to, which was bb.
[15:34] <Unit193> bluesabre: Nice, that looks like a fun commit.
[18:23] <bluesabre> Unit193: cool, and it looks like the only actual difference is the version bump?
[18:24] <Unit193> Yep.
[18:27] <bluesabre> cool
[18:28] <bluesabre> we'll need to work with Corsac to actually get these things released into debian
[18:28] <bluesabre> wondering if we need to create an ITP for this
[18:35] <bluesabre> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11457531/ is what you'd like to commit, I'd imagine?
[18:38] <Unit193> Oh right, thanks then!
[18:43] <bluesabre> oh, lol
[18:43] <bluesabre> I bugged you enough that you did it yourself :p
[22:43] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: xfce4-panel and xfce4-indicator-plugin uploaded
[22:44] <Unit193> [18:37:36] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: New binary: xfce4-panel [amd64] (wily-proposed/universe) [4.12.0-2ubuntu1] (lubuntu, mythbuntu, ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
[22:44] <Unit193> Yep, saw. :D
[22:45] <bluesabre> you're not Noskcaj, silly Unit193 :p
[22:45] <bluesabre> bbabl
[22:46] <Unit193> :D
[23:03] <knome> http://www.piqo.fr/blog/piqo/10101-xubuntu-piqo-edition-telechargeable-en-pre-alpha.html#.VUeTwfntlBc
[23:03] <knome> hmm hmm