[00:33] <_thumper_> mhall119: around?
[00:40]  * thumper is reading a charm written with the python charm helpers
[00:41] <thumper> pretty nice...
[00:55] <jcw4> thumper: which charm?
[00:55] <thumper> looking at python-django right now
[00:55] <thumper> to try and work out WTF is going on
[00:55] <jcw4> heh
[00:55] <thumper> but the charm helpers themselves are pretty nice
[00:55] <jcw4> cool
[01:19] <vorpalbunny> well that's frustrating
[01:20] <thumper> no local charm support for the deployer
[01:20] <thumper> hazmat: is that right still?
[01:20] <thumper> hazmat: can't specify a local charm in a bundle description?
[03:14] <thumper> grr...
[03:15] <thumper> well this confused me for a while: unit_name = service_name()
[04:55] <lazyPower> thumper: didja file a bug?
[05:26] <thumper> lazyPower: no
[05:26] <thumper> lazyPower: but I feel I may be forking and tweaking the python-django charm
[05:26] <lazyPower> thumper: Thats the beauty of our system :) Use as little or as much of the charm as you need, remix to fit your purpose and contribue or hoard as you see fit.
[05:27] <thumper> lazyPower: well...
[05:27] <thumper> I feel there is a big deficiency in our system too
[05:27] <lazyPower> do tell
[05:27] <thumper> mainly in consistency, and usability of the charms
[05:27] <lazyPower> how so?
[05:27] <thumper> if you try and do anything non-vanilla
[05:27] <thumper> you get stuck
[05:27] <thumper> unless you read all the code
[05:27] <thumper> which I have had to do
[05:27] <thumper> not entirely sure if that is what we want
[05:28] <lazyPower> I'm not sure what you mean - and thats probably why the new python-django charm isn't ack'd into the store.
[05:28] <thumper> the charms just don
[05:28] <thumper> don't have enough documentation to understand enough
[05:28] <lazyPower> if you're talking about non-default settings.
[05:28] <thumper> right
[05:28] <lazyPower> Yeah, i'm combatting that with teh DNS charm - trying to raise teh bar
[05:28] <lazyPower> want to take a peek?
[05:28] <thumper> lazyPower: I've talked with alexisb about my problems
[05:28] <thumper> and we are going to bring it up with your group
[05:29] <thumper> but I want to get things going and write stuff up first
[05:29] <thumper> that way it is a positive contribution
[05:29] <thumper> rather than just bitching :-)
[05:29] <lazyPower> thumper: having a good list to guide with yoru pain points, to revise the review process would be welcome.
[05:29] <lazyPower> s/yoru/your/
[05:29] <thumper> I feel that others have probably done what I'm doing before, but it just isn't clear
[05:30] <thumper> nor are there examples or samples to move forwards
[05:30] <lazyPower> thumper: https://github.com/chuckbutler/dns-charm
[05:30] <lazyPower> take a look through the readme and doc
[05:30] <thumper> for example: a subordinate charm for python-django to provide the application
[05:30] <thumper> I'm having to figure it out as I go
[05:30] <thumper> and it is a big pile of trial and error
[05:30] <lazyPower> thumper: I'm a fan of that architecture - is it not very well documented? or ...
[05:30] <thumper> I know others would just not bother
[05:31] <thumper> but I know the benefits I want from the system
[05:31] <thumper> just not well documented
[05:31] <lazyPower> a good example of that is the new Tomcat charm from mbruzek
[05:31] <lazyPower> apps occupy space as subs, with tomcat providing just the app server
[05:31] <thumper> lazyPower: for local charms, how do I upgrade them?
[05:31] <thumper> where is the versioning?
[05:31] <lazyPower> juju upgrade-charm --repository=$foopath charmname
[05:31] <lazyPower> it auto-increments the REVISION
[05:31] <thumper> ah...
[05:32] <thumper> ok
[05:32] <thumper> also, the source of python-django recommends using nginx as a reverse proxy in front of gunicorn
[05:32] <thumper> but examples?
[05:32] <thumper> nope
[05:32]  * thumper goes back to making dinner
[05:33] <lazyPower> thumper: until yesterday we didn't have an NGINX charm
[05:33] <lazyPower> so there's no example to provide
[05:33] <lazyPower> there was a general consensus among a few charmers that NGINX should be rolled into whatever framework charm you're deploying instead of deploying NGINX + <framework>
[05:34] <lazyPower> marcoceppi wrote an alpha quality NGINX charm to bundle into a demo that I'm farily certain he is planning on releasing in the coming weeks that will fit that bill pretty well
[05:36] <thumper> hmm...
[05:36] <thumper> ok, so perhaps I'll just deploy gunicorn at port 80 for now
[05:37] <thumper> given that the site load will be very small to start with
[05:37] <thumper> and look to fix later?
[05:37] <thumper> although that feels wrong too
[05:37] <thumper> as the static area really shouldn't go through python
[05:37] <thumper> lazyPower: is nginx a subordinate?
[05:37] <lazyPower> Negative
[05:37] <thumper> hmm...
[05:37] <lazyPower> Its a stand-alone
[05:38] <thumper> so...
[05:38] <thumper> how should I do it then?
[05:38]  * thumper wonders
[05:38] <lazyPower> I would imagine you would co-locate services. I'm not really familiar with how its put together
[05:38] <thumper> also, what's the status of the new python-django charm?
[05:38] <thumper> I have forked it locally
[05:38] <thumper> to read and play
[05:38] <lazyPower> I haven't looked at it since my last review.
[05:39] <thumper> well, your review said approve
[05:39] <thumper> I didn't look at the details though
[05:39] <thumper> what's the process?
[05:40] <lazyPower> Latest change: 2014-05-12 Charles Butler Patrick Hetu 2014-05-02 fix a wrong configuration variable name - is the commit message on python-django in the store. i'm looking for this MP you're referencing
[05:43] <lazyPower> thumper: what you're referencing is upstream. its whats provided by cs:precise/python-django
[05:43] <lazyPower> cs:trusty/python-django
[05:43] <lazyPower> rather
[05:43] <lazyPower> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/trusty/python-django/trunk/files
[05:48] <lazyPower> thumper: however, this looks like it was an oversight on my part. I went back through my review notes and I have an action item to follow up on - this repository doesn't share a common ancestor with the precise python-django charm - and I didn't make it back to wrapping that up. I don't know how to promulgate this over whats existing.
[05:48] <lazyPower> complete failure on my part
[05:49] <thumper> lazyPower: so is this new one going to be trusty or precise or both?
[05:50] <lazyPower> It's in trusty - I need to defer the precise/both decision until I've spoken with other charmers
[05:50] <thumper> lazyPower: it looks like I'm going to have six or seven charms for my setup
[05:50] <thumper> ack
[05:50] <lazyPower> that's not something i'm comfortable cowboying myself, as it has implications with existing deployments.
[05:50] <thumper> so trusty/python-django is the new hotness?
[05:50] <lazyPower> thats the story for today
[05:50] <thumper> lazyPower: you can get a common ancestry easily enough
[05:50] <lazyPower> it may change on monday after i've convened with ~charmers
[05:50] <thumper> I think this will work:
[05:50] <thumper> start with the new branch
[05:51] <thumper> merge in the original
[05:51] <thumper> bzr revert .
[05:51] <thumper> which reverts the changes but not the merge
[05:51] <thumper> then commit
[05:51] <thumper> then you can merge that into the old charm
[05:51] <thumper> shazam
[05:51] <lazyPower> thumper: Thats good info to have, but again it depends on if its going to break how existing deployments using cs:precise/python-django - and that's something I need to re-validate.
[05:51]  * thumper nods
[05:51] <thumper> the behaviour needs to match, right?
[05:52] <thumper> I can see that this needs careful testing
[05:52] <lazyPower> exactly
[05:53] <lazyPower> if it winds up breaking the existing story (which if i remember correctly it doesnt, but -- this is > 2 weeks old so...) then we broke deployments everywhere to anybody that upgrades
[05:53] <lazyPower> and I don't want to poo on our existing users
[05:53]  * thumper nods
[05:53]  * thumper heads back to the kitchen
[05:53] <lazyPower> I'd rather tell you tod eploy trusty, and know its good, vs assuming.
[06:25] <thumper> lazyPower: hmm... due to me being cheap, I was wanting to put everything on one box
[06:25] <thumper> not sure if postgresql is trusty yet or not
[06:25] <thumper> easy way to check?
[06:25] <lazyPower> Put it in your local trusty charm repo and deploy it.
[06:25] <thumper> need block-storage-broker
[06:25] <thumper> ah
[06:26] <thumper> will try that
[06:26] <thumper> but then I can't use deployer script...
[06:26] <thumper> oh well
[06:26] <thumper> bundle can't reference local can it?
[06:26]  * thumper sees places for things to improve a lot
[06:29] <lazyPower> You can push that LP and deploy from there
[06:32] <lazyPower> Also I believe if you pass full path to the local charm you can deploy local charms.I may be wrong though
[06:35] <lazyPower> I know that works in deployer manifest format. Ppetraki built an offline archiver with that principal
[07:59] <jamespage> designated, those branches introduce two new configuration options - ceph-public-network and ceph-cluster-network
[07:59] <jamespage> you specify the network cidr and the charm figures out which configured network addresses to use
[14:19] <mhall119> thumper: off and on, what's up?
[18:15] <Eegoist> why relation-get return None, even if unit is on relation-list?


[01:50] <doko> jbicha: are you running a bot for your syncs?
[01:51] <jbicha> no
[01:51] <doko> so why the new upstream versions?
[01:53] <jbicha> can you point to a particular one?
[01:53] <doko> sure, eliom
[01:54] <doko> but I won't track every one of your uploads
[01:54] <jbicha> that's not a new upstream version, 4.2-2>4.2-3
[01:54] <jbicha> but it's ocaml so I would have been smarter to stay away from it
[01:55] <doko> yeah, if you're not interested in progress
[02:08] <jbicha> the changelog for eliom was deceptively simple :( https://launchpadlibrarian.net/282342301/eliom_4.2-2build1_4.2-3.diff.gz
[02:09] <Unit193> Yeah but you got the one I wanted, which is all that matters. :---D
[02:12] <jbicha> well by syncing eliom I ended up creating more work for someone but I do try to make up for those mistakes by helping with ftbfs and transitions
[02:16] <jbicha> Unit193: I wonder why that change was only done by Fedora on webkitgtk and not webkit2gtk (they named their source package webkitgtk4)
[02:16] <Unit193> Yeah it's a bit odd.  No idea if it has the same problem.
[02:19] <jbicha> maybe webkitgtk is just old
[02:20] <jbicha> gufw uses a very simple webkitgtk widget to show embedded help and it didn't crash for me
[02:20] <Unit193> midori didn't either.
[02:21] <jbicha> oh, I was thinking midori might have been the wk1 browser you were using
[02:21] <Unit193> GTK2 version of Xombrero.
[02:22] <jbicha> I'm basically doing a no-change rebuild of wk2 to see if that might help with bug 1618956; if it doesn't work I'll try passing that flag to wk2 in a ppa build
[10:43] <fg01> Hi, I would like to contribute to Ubuntu. I would like to help fixing bugs to get used to the code. Could you guide me on starting? hope I can be helpful
[14:51] <juliank> Everyone happy with apt 1.3~rc4ubuntu1 so far?


[00:06] <SturmFlut> Okay, this one is a little complicated: I found out that Linux introduced unprivileged ICMP for a couple of years. One gets a socket using     socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_ICMP)   and then an the unprivileged user is allowed to send and receive a very limited set of ICMP messages. My code seems to work on the phone (Nexus 4, r14, Kernel 3.4.0-5-mako) but on the desktop (Vivid, Kernel 3.18.0-9-generic) already
[00:06] <SturmFlut> the socket() call fails with EACCES.
[00:07] <SturmFlut> Which leads to the question: Is this a kernel issue, an AppArmor issue or something completely different and who should I talk to
[00:41] <jjohansen> SturmFlut: please check dmesg for apparmor messages
[00:41] <jjohansen>   dmesg | grep DENIED
[00:45] <SturmFlut> jjohansen: There are some results, but none concerning the app.
[00:46] <jjohansen> SturmFlut: hrmmm, is the app confined?
[00:47] <jjohansen> aa-status will report apparmor status
[00:47] <jjohansen> or you can directly check the tasks confinement
[00:47] <jjohansen>  cat /proc/<pid>/attr/current
[00:48] <jjohansen> where <pid> is the pid of the task to check
[00:48] <jjohansen> ps -Z will show that info as well
[00:49] <SturmFlut>  /proc/15059/attr/current contains "unconfined". I would expect so on the Desktop
[00:51] <jjohansen> SturmFlut: so with it being unconfined its very unlikely the issue is apparmor
[00:52] <SturmFlut> jjohansen: I thought so, but I don't know anything about AppArmor so I wanted to check that first
[00:52] <jjohansen> right, so it should only enforce policy on processes that are confined
[00:53] <jjohansen> it doing something with unconfined would be a major bug
[00:54] <SturmFlut> jjohansen: The next step would probably be to talk to someone in #ubuntu-kernel ? I already checked that the 3.18.0 kernel contains the necessary code for unprivileged ICMP, and the same socket() call works on the phone.
[01:18] <SturmFlut> jjohansen: Nice to meet you BTW, and thanks for your support :)
[14:57] <andygraybeal> is there a tablet that runs ubuntu well yet?  my lady woud like a computer for the kitchen.
[14:58] <andygraybeal> i've read the links in the topic
[16:23] <kibibyte> hi
[16:24] <kibibyte> what phone  shuould i buy in order to install ubuntu phone on it ?
[16:25] <kibibyte>  ???
[16:25] <k1l> see the topic for the wiki pages about the install. in there you will find what devices are used as official dev phones and what phones have community support
[16:26] <kibibyte> but i mena some offical phone
[16:26] <kibibyte> i heard meizu will be first phone with ubuntu
[16:26] <kibibyte> so shoudl i buy meizu ?
[16:26] <k1l> did look up the wiki page i just told? the first phone will be sold in february.
[16:27] <kibibyte> k1l, what phone ? meizu ?
[16:28] <kibibyte> ??
[16:29] <k1l> kibibyte: ???
[16:29] <kibibyte> k1l, what phone will be sold in februrary ? i mena what brand
[16:29] <k1l> you asked for a phone to install ubuntu-touch on your own there. so see the wiki page.
[16:30] <kibibyte> http://www.gsmarena.com/new_photo_of_ubuntu_powered_meizu_mx4-news-10385.php
[16:30] <k1l> kibibyte: bq. but if they ship 1 ubuntu phone doesnt mean you can install ubuntu-touch on all their phones.
[16:30] <popey>  kibibyte http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/12/bq-ubuntu-phone-launches-in-europe-this-february
[16:31] <popey> first phone is bq
[16:31] <k1l> kibibyte: so if you want to be sure you can install ubuntu phone on your phone see the wiki page i meantioned
[16:31] <popey> meizu next
[16:31] <kibibyte> bq seems shitty to me. its from portugal
[16:31] <popey> s/portugal/spain/
[16:31] <kibibyte> yeah
[16:31] <kibibyte> same
[16:32] <kibibyte> spain/portugal they can do only holliday resorts
[16:32] <kibibyte> not electronic
[16:32] <popey> now now
[16:33] <kibibyte> i dream about HTC with ubuntu
[16:33] <kibibyte> that would be android killer
[16:33] <popey> i like the look of Sony phones
[16:33] <popey> would love to have a sony phone with ubuntu
[16:33] <popey> but then there's a LOT of android phone manufacturers out there
[16:33] <popey> many of them would be awesome.
[16:33] <popey> but we have to get the first one out, then the second, then the rest
[16:33] <popey> takes time.
[16:34] <kibibyte> HTC -> best looking solid aluminium phones
[16:36] <kibibyte> yeah i know but ubuntu should start with some well know brand like HTC
[16:36] <kibibyte> and they start with bq and meizu
[16:37] <ogra_> nope, that would be a bad idea ... you dont really want the masses in the beginning, you want the app devs
[16:37] <kibibyte> one is frome some portugal (holliday resorts) and other is from china (cheap shit)
[16:37] <ogra_> and for app devs you want an affordable device they can use to fill the store
[16:38] <ogra_> once you have a certain amount of apps you want the masses then
[16:38] <kibibyte> meizu mx4 affordable ? lol
[16:38] <kibibyte> it costs more thatn HTC one
[16:38]  * ogra_ wasnt talking about meizu
[16:39] <strahtw> If you want a other device then meizu or bq just install it on a supported one you want!?
[16:39] <kibibyte> most IT delopers can afford any phone
[16:39] <kibibyte> its well paid subject
[16:39] <ogra_> well, go and convince HTC :)
[16:39] <kibibyte> or you targeting developer from india lol
[16:40] <ogra_> or do a port yourself
[16:40] <kibibyte> no no, i dont want any ports i want some offical phone from cannocial . with support etc
[16:41] <kibibyte> like nexus from google
[16:41] <ogra_> well, then you have to go with bq or later with meizu
[16:41] <ogra_> or wait a year and have a bigger choice
[16:42] <kibibyte> they should hire some smart gut in cannonical to manage this stuff
[16:42] <ogra_> manage what ?
[16:42] <kibibyte> like my idea: offical phone from ubuntu
[16:42] <k1l> kibibyte: you are talking way too much prejudices
[16:42] <kibibyte> i mena from cannonical
[16:42] <ogra_> the bq and meizu Üare* the official phones from ubuntu once they are out
[16:43] <k1l> kibibyte: you know that even microsoft with its power did struggle in the mobile market?
[16:43] <ogra_> its not like google ever produced a nexus themselves either
[16:43] <kibibyte> ogra_, but i heard that that will modified ubuntu on bq and meizu
[16:43] <ogra_> modified ?
[16:43] <ogra_> its the first release of the ubuntu phone OS ... it will be as plain as it can be :)
[16:44] <kibibyte> ogra_, yeah but nexus has stock android and i.e HTC has android with htc sense which is crap
[16:44] <ogra_> ubuntu isnt android
[16:44] <ogra_> completely different concept
[16:44] <ogra_> *especially* if it comes to branding
[16:44] <kibibyte> yeha but meizu will probably modify ubuntu touch
[16:44] <ogra_> what makes you think that
[16:45] <k1l> kibibyte: can you stick to facts and not "i think" or "i heard"?
[16:45] <kibibyte> since each company wants to add somethign to their phones to make them "better" than others
[16:45] <kibibyte> like HTC is adding sense
[16:45] <ogra_> thats what ubuntu for phones is designed for
[16:46] <kibibyte> but i want stock ubuntu
[16:46] <ogra_> it is re-brandeable by the manufacturer out of the box
[16:46] <kibibyte> without any chinesse/portugal modifications
[16:46] <ogra_> there is no such thing
[16:46] <ogra_> its all stock ubuntu ...
[16:47] <ogra_> just wait til you can hokd one in your hands and you wil understand
[16:47] <kibibyte> ogra_, nexus has stock android installed. If thers new version of android , you get it. And in HTC you cant install new andorid. you must wait for HTC android version
[16:47] <popey> this isn't android
[16:47] <ogra_> right, ubuntu isnt android
[16:48] <ahayzen_> Hey, is the camera-app broken for anyone else after the latest rtm-proposed update?
[16:48] <kibibyte> ok then i like it
[16:48] <popey> ahayzen_: lemme see
[16:48] <popey> just updating now
[16:48] <popey> ahayzen_: broken in what way? won't launch?
[16:48] <ahayzen_> yup
[16:49] <popey> k
[16:49] <popey> any logs?
[16:49] <ahayzen_> checking now
[16:49] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/camera-app/+bug/1411789
[16:50] <popey> ahayzen_: works on krillin
[16:51] <ahayzen_> app log http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9768315/ syslog http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9768317/
[16:51] <ahayzen_> popey, this is on mako #169
[16:51] <ahayzen_> popey, i've even tried reinstalling from the store
[16:52] <ahayzen_> popey, but it just dumps out right at the point where the splash would normally end
[16:52] <popey> I'd file a bug.
[16:52] <popey> sorry, I dont have mako
[16:52] <ahayzen_> :/
[16:53] <ahayzen_> popey, it was working on the image before, so i suspect its something in these changes http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/rtm/201.changes :) i'll file a bug
[16:54] <popey> lots of camera stuff!
[16:54]  * ahayzen_ spots 'camera' in the .changes
[16:54] <ogra_> well, there was a hybris change
[16:54] <ahayzen_> ogra_, do you have a mako?
[16:54] <ogra_> i guess while the krillin device tarball got updated, the mako one didnt
[16:54] <ogra_> yes, i have a mako, but months outdated and with drained battery
[16:54] <ahayzen_> ah
[16:55] <ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rtm-14.09-changes/2015-January/thread.html ... no android package in there
[16:55] <ogra_> file a bug and assign to rsalveti ...
[16:56] <ogra_> he usually cares for updating that
[16:57] <SturmFlut> popey: My cheap QML Network Scanner app relies on a kernel feature which is currently enabled on Ubuntu Touch, but disabled on Vivid Vervet desktops/servers. In the end it boils down to a default sysctl setting, so its not really a kernel issue, but a matter of "what are the defaults for our distribution". I am not sure as who to talk to, could you maybe give me a pointer?
[16:58] <popey> dunno who does kernel defaults, if it's a security thing then jdstrand I think, but otherwise, not sure.
[16:58] <ahayzen_> ogra_, i don't think i can assign people not in my team or something IIRC, are you able to assign/add any more info to bug 1412013
[16:59] <popey> done
[16:59] <popey> ogra_: do you know who might be able to answer SturmFlut's question?
[17:00] <ogra_> popey, SturmFlut, either security or kernel team ...
[17:00] <ahayzen_> popey, ogra_ thanks :)
[17:03] <SturmFlut> popey, ogra_ : There might be security implications. So maybe I talk to the security team first, and if they have no objections I take it to the kernel team? Or whoever is responsible for the contents of the "procps" package, which sets most of the sysctl parameters, as I just found out.
[17:04] <ogra_> well, procps sets the overrides, kernel sets the defaults
[17:04] <ogra_> both are in hand of the kernel team i think
[17:04] <ogra_> (but you will need security approval anyway, so yeah, start with them first)
[17:06] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Thanks. What's the proper way to contact the security team? Mailing List or IRC?
[17:06] <ogra_> SturmFlut, ubuntu-devel or ping mdeslaur or jdstrand during the working week
[17:07] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Will do. Thanks a lot :)
[17:07] <ogra_> np
[17:35] <i9500> hey guys
[17:35] <i9500> as my name says
[17:35] <i9500> is there any way to install ubuntu touch developers preview to i9500
[17:37] <i9500> hmm no answer ok than
[17:41] <ogra_> yay for patiency
[19:06] <adrian47> Is there anyone who can help with: "Warning: unable to open an initial console"  at boot (porting to HTC phone)
[19:54] <julienrbt> mmh the mms works in ubuntu touch?
[21:43] <julienrbt> Hello, Ubuntu Touch support tethering?
[21:44] <julienrbt> (usb? wifi?)
[21:49] <julienrbt> well I've had an answer :) http://linuxg.net/ubuntu-touch-received-official-support-for-usb-tethering-see-how-to-enable-the-feature/
[21:49] <julienrbt> (the next time I search before, sorry)