[06:24] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[06:32] <dwatkins> moin moin
[07:46] <kvarley> Does this ( http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_opensource_uvd&num=1 ) mean I can now game using open source AMD drivers?
[08:28] <popey> Morning
[08:28] <zleap> morning
[09:01] <SuperMatt> ahoy
[09:44] <kvarley-live> I'm currently on the 13.04 installer
[09:45] <kvarley-live> Just clicked to continue on the 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen and it's not doing anything but apparently loading
[09:54] <kvarley-live> For anybody else who bumps into this, it's this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1080701
[10:09] <popey> bah
[10:09] <popey> resorted to using windows today as the wifi is just unbearable
[10:21] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hows the face?
[10:21] <popey> looked really bad
[10:21] <SuperMatt> time to get my code on, yo!
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning  popey
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> It hurts. A lot
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will take another piccy in a mo. Bruising quite nicely now :-)
[10:22] <popey> ☹
[10:22] <popey> hah, glad you're in good spirits about it
[10:23] <popey> tbh when I fell over at the maltings when buying this years beerex tickets I thought I'd be injured more than I was
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> It looks worse that it really is.  A few scratches and bruises but nothing broken.
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> You fell over before the beer ???
[10:23] <popey> yeah, at ~6am
[10:23] <popey> the set of steps near the bridge, on the maltings side
[10:24] <popey> i was standing on the brickwork looking to see how long the queue was
[10:24] <popey> missed footing fell (rolled) down the steps
[10:24] <popey> john said it looked like i might stop at some point, but no, i kept on rolling
[10:24] <popey> plenty of bruises under my clothes but nothing too bad, and no facial/head injuries
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[10:25] <SuperMatt> how do I update my current bzr check out to the latest revision?
[10:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> What I still can't work out about this is how I was so drunk without having drunk that much (for me) and I didn't have a hangover from hell yesterday...
[10:27] <popey> bzr pull
[10:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> I can't remember anything about the afternoon after listening to Gareth Edwards speak. But at the point I'd probably only had 2 pints of bitter and 3/4 of a bottle of wine.
[10:27] <popey> crikey
[10:28] <SuperMatt> ta
[10:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> I do wonder if there was some spiking going on...
[10:28] <Myrtti> I've Had the reverse
[10:29] <apacheuk> quick question, I've been messing around with python/quickly and built a simple little app.... created a ppa and everything is hunky dory.... I've just installed 13.04 on my laptop, how do I get the ppa built for 13.04? Or do I have towait til its officially released?
[10:29] <Myrtti> hangover from hell after one .33l can of 4.7% cider
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> apacheuk: submit a package with "raring" in the debian/changelog (and probably another version number.. :)
[10:30] <Myrtti> but not being drunk at all
[10:30] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: looks much better
[10:30] <popey> now you can open your eye!
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes!
[10:30] <apacheuk> MartijnVdS, cheers.... guess I have some reading to do :)
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.jaren90muziek.nl/data/eslqkyxy/front.jpg
[10:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: qu'est ce que c'est
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: The cover of a single from the 90s.. your pic reminded me of it :)
[10:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh I see.
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> (it's "happy hardcore".. *shudder*)
[10:40] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: has anybody offered information on what happened?
[10:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Well, my mate Roger who brought me home said I had just fell over a few times - the last one using a car door mirror and my face to slow me down...
[10:42] <bigcalm> Ouch
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> argh!
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> shotwell won't show its main window
[10:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> But my mind's a blank really - which is odd. Because I have a reasonable capacity for alcohol and in reality I don't think I'd drunk that much
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> well. it's trying to but no contents
[10:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> And I had no hangover to speak of yesterday.
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the only time I've had memory loss was when I got a concussion from being hit from behind while bicycling
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: could it be that you hit your head *that* hard?
[10:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I guess so.
[10:51] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: seeing a doctor and getting a scan wouldn't be a silly option
[10:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> My wife has been suggesting the same thing. But apart from an aching face I feel fine.
[10:53] <bigcalm> So I managed to get nut working with my Belkin UPS. What's odd is that the current load is 0. How can this be?
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nothing's attached to it?
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: power is still on, so the battery is not "loaded"?
[10:53] <StevenR> bigcalm: either, nothing is connected to the UPS, there's a rounding issue, or the software is wrong
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> (note: OR not XOR)
[10:55] <bigcalm> I'm visiting my parents this weekend, so I can't poke things right now. But I'm fairly sure I plugged into the UPS the extension block connecting the cable modem, router, micro server and desktop
[10:56] <bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/ups/
[10:58] <StevenR> bigcalm: how big a UPS is it?
[10:59] <bigcalm> StevenR: domestic device: http://www.belkin.com/us/support-product?rnId=672
[11:03] <StevenR> bigcalm: ok, I'd expect to see a load of around 25-35% (for the kit you describe above - I'm estimating a little there), so it's probably not a rounding error... which suggests either there's nothing plugged in, or the driver/software can't read that value from the UPS (which is odd, because it's getting lots of other data from the UPS)
[11:06] <bigcalm> Odd indeed. I guess I'll have to play more when I get home
[11:11] <bigcalm> The UPS itself might be fudged
[11:11] <bigcalm> I had to replace the batteries. Maybe I killed something in the process
[11:14] <StevenR> bigcalm: you can't put fudge in a UPS. That'll definately affect the load reading ;)
[11:14] <bigcalm> :)
[11:30] <kvarley> Just got 13.04 installed ... Wow, Ubuntu never ceases to amaze me
[11:30] <popey> that bad huh?
[11:30] <kvarley> Had a bit of trouble installing (known bug), then needed proprietary drivers for Unity to become usable and there is a bug with the drivers at the moment but I've patched it up.
[11:30] <kvarley> popey: No, it's good :)
[11:30] <kvarley> Getting more and more usable all the time
[11:33] <kvarley> Is turning off "Record Activity" and "Include online search results" all I need to do to maintain my privacy?
[11:34] <popey> depends how you define privacy
[11:34] <popey> use tor, don't use google, use an adblocker.. etc
[11:36] <kvarley> popey: I mean, some people said the online search results raise privacy issues. I was just trying to disable those features. Admittedly I do use Steam and closed source drivers tho
[11:37] <popey> read more about it than just what "some people say" imo
[11:38] <kvarley> Ok, I mean as far as I can tell they're complaining because it's on by default. Couldn't a toggle be included in ubiquity to make them happy?
[11:39] <popey> no, because it wouldn't make everyone happy
[11:39] <popey> "them" implies there's one big group
[11:39] <popey> there isn't
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> especially the design team
[11:40] <popey> there's a load of individuals who have differing opinions
[11:40] <popey> (most of which don't use ubuntu and probably never have, and probably never will. e.g. RMS)
[11:40] <kvarley> Oh, ok. Well I've been round the block of other distros to see what the alternatives are and none of them compare to Ubuntu or XUbuntu
[11:43] <kvarley> The animations on 13.04 are absolutely gorgeous, it feels like a whole different OS
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: animations?
[11:45] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Minimizing windows, tiling windows, opening windows, etc :)
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> I don't see a difference?
[11:47] <kvarley> The tiling animation and minimize are different from 12.10
[11:47] <ali1234> that stuff is animated?
[11:48] <kvarley> ali1234: Transitions are animated right?
[11:48] <ali1234> not on my computer
[11:48] <kvarley> Oh
[11:48] <ali1234> because i use nvidia and the frame rate is too low for them to be visible
[11:48] <kvarley> Ah, I'm on AMD FGLRX
[11:48] <ali1234> but openarena runs at 6 million FPS
[11:48] <kvarley> heh
[11:49] <kvarley> afk
[11:49] <penguin42> kvarley: I thought there was now a big toggle that they had added specifically for the privacy switches
[11:58] <ikonia> kvarley: you mentioned earlier that you had to use the propritary drivers as if it was a "bad thing", did you expect the open drivers to power your card sucessful
[12:05] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: it works like that on intel :)
[12:05] <ali1234> i constantly hear from AMD fanboys about how they are so much better than nvidia because "they open sourced all their drivers"
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: amd fanboys are not smart people, I guess?
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> (this is implied in the word "fanboy", I guess)
[12:08] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: he's not using intel though, so I was curious to his expectation on ati
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> well there _are_ free ati drivers
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> and AMD has just released some new video decoding stuff under a free license
[12:09] <ikonia> ali1234: I doubt the people claiming ati are better because they are open are fanboys...just ill informed
[12:12] <kvarley> ikonia: I use the proprietary drivers because I have to in order to get good performance. Ideally GPU vendors would open source everything
[12:13] <ikonia> kvarley: I appreciate you "had" to use it, however you spoke of it as a negative thing
[12:13] <kvarley> ali1234: I only like AMD because it's the best performance per £. I know Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs outperform AMD on just performance. I'm not a fanboy of AMD, I buy whatever brand is best for my needs
[12:13] <ikonia> or like you expected to be able to use the open driver
[12:13] <ikonia> intel out perform ATI ?
[12:14] <kvarley> ikonia: I just mean that I'd have hoped the performance would have been better with the open source drivers but obviously that isn't down to the driver developers but AMD for keeping FGLRX closed source
[12:14] <kvarley> ikonia: I said AMD. Intel CPUs generally out-perform AMD's
[12:15] <ikonia> ahh cpu
[12:15] <ikonia> ATI=AMD, I thought you where still referencing gpu
[12:19] <kvarley> Well ATI are no more no, just AMD isn't it?
[12:20] <ikonia> yes, re-directs to AMD
[13:05] <kvarley> Is there an easy way I can limit Steam's download speed?
[13:10] <magpie> steam?
[13:10] <kvarley> magpie: Doesn't have an option as far as I can see
[13:10] <magpie> there's a way to limit your download speed in general i don't know the method for a specific program
[13:11] <magpie> what is steam?
[13:11] <magpie> maybe if you linked the command to the PID
[13:12] <magpie> you could do it that way
[13:20] <kvarley> I have the realtek 8168 chipset but the current kernel module that is loaded is 8169 - why?
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: because chip manufacturers sometimes have a bunch of chips with different numbers that are different in details only
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> so one driver is written
[14:17] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: What seems to be the issue he is it's loading one module because it supports a lot of chipsets but the chipset I'm on isn't fully supported by it so I'm getting poor performance. I'm trying to build the module manually, run into some errors (I'm on 13.04) so I'm asking in #ubuntu+1 thanks anyway :)
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> uhhh
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> manually building modules is almost never the answer :)
[15:13] <Myrtti> achievement unlocked: went to Hobbycraft, didn't buy yarn.
[15:14] <penguin42> what did you buy instead?
[15:17] <Myrtti> watercolours, and a Tala jam canning kit
[15:17] <Myrtti> latter was twice the price that it would have been in another stores but oh well.
[15:17] <Myrtti> I made a special effort to not Amazon every product I saw there with my phone.
[15:18] <penguin42> haha
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: next challenge: one day without a phone
[15:57] <penguin42> wth are people offering OLD scsi drives for $100 on amazon
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: not ebay?
[15:58] <penguin42> I've just pulled a 1G and 4GB SCSI drive out of an old case I've had sitting here for years, and looked up the drive numbers on line, and  found offering prices of over $100
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I'm seeing £167 for "72Gb hot-plug serial SCSI HDD"
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> but wow.. scsi :)
[16:00] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think they're circa 97
[16:00]  * MartijnVdS wonders if it'd be worth it to put the old 350D up for sale somewhere
[16:00] <stgraber>  /win 41
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> stgraber: /lose ;)
[16:00] <stgraber> ;)
[16:00] <penguin42> 350D?
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_350D
[16:00] <penguin42> ah
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> ooh! there's a chdk version for it
[16:05] <penguin42> a what?
[16:08] <bigcalm> penguin42: open source camera firmware
[16:09] <penguin42> ah neat
[16:09] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I have a 350D, my neice really wants it - then I got a mywi card for it, which means I don't need to plug it in (it's technically unsupported, but seems to work)
[16:10] <dwatkins> That reminds me, I must check it's still working.
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> eye-fi you mean?
[16:10] <dwatkins> oh yeah, sorry
[16:10] <dwatkins> getting confused between wifi devices
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> too many "-fi" names!
[16:12] <shauno> I didn't know the eye-fi cards came in CF ?
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: cf-to-sd adapters exist
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWaF1vePqUE
[16:17] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Just reading the chdk stuff - neat
[16:17] <shauno> interesting, I had no idea  (and ditto on chdk)
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> magic lantern will blow your mind then ;)
[16:18] <shauno> didn't expect that one because I believe SD cards are serial/usb, and CF is ATA/IDE
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: SD cards use a very simple protocol. It's easy to build a tiny chip to translate reads/writes
[16:19] <penguin42> shauno: But CF cards are huge compared to an SD, plenty of room to put a micro in a converter
[16:19] <penguin42> shauno: http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/28850789/680800863/SD-Card-to-CompactFlash-Card-Adaptor/ListingDetails.html?_%24ja=tsid:13315|cat:28850789|prd:28850789&ef_id=Rv5QOWfVyg4AAAcR:20130414161909:s
[16:21] <popey> seems disabling 802.11n has "solved" my wifi woes.
[16:21] <dwatkins> shauno: indeed, I have a CF-SD adapter for my 350D, it's specifically stated as being unsupported on the eye-fi site, but mostly seems to work
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> popey: that used to be the "Fix" on 2007-8 era Intel wifi as well
[16:22] <dwatkins> hmmm, at least it did...
[16:23] <dwatkins> flibbertyjibbet, it's not uploading new photos anymore
[16:26] <dwatkins> strange, the card thinks it's tomorrow morning... aha, now it's trying to upload images
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: *whistles Doctor Who theme*
[16:26] <dwatkins> hehe, spoooooky huh?
[16:27] <dwatkins> I'm looking at my DHCP leases file, and the last one is at epoch time<PHONE_NUMBER>, has the eye-fi's name and that's Mon Apr 15 05:20:07 BST 2013
[16:27]  * dwatkins wonders if this is dnsmasq's fault
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "date" on the dnsmasq machine
[16:29] <dwatkins> root@ubuntu-eee:~# date
[16:29] <dwatkins> Sun Apr 14 17:29:21 BST 2013
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> looks OK
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> isn't it the lease _end_ time?
[16:29]  * dwatkins moves the camera closer to the router
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> now + 12 hours?
[16:29] <dwatkins> oh is it?
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> just wondering
[16:30] <dwatkins> bingo - it wasn't getting a strong enough wifi signal
[16:30] <dwatkins> probably something to do with my camera being made of metal ;)
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> and your hands of mostly water, blocking 2.4GHz signals quite effectively ;)
[16:31]  * dwatkins considers keeping the Linksys WRT54G he's currently installing so his brother can throttle his kids' youtube usage ;)
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: WDR4300 + OpenWRT ;)
[16:31] <dwatkins> haha, it was just sitting on the bed, but there are a couple walls between me and the router, and a sofa or two
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: get 600 mbit 802.11n, AND throttling
[16:31] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I havn't done anything like this before, I was thinking of using the Tomato firmware, but if there's a Better Way, I'm all ears
[16:31] <dwatkins> (as much as one can use one's ears on IRC)
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I'm running OpenWRT on mine :)
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> You can get it from their site, or compile it yourself for flexibility
[16:32] <dwatkins> looks like a nice router
[16:32] <dwatkins> I bought a WRT54G off e-bay to try this out with.
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> (I disabled the web interface, ssh + vi ftw ;))
[16:33] <dwatkins> yeah, I tend to administer the above-mentioned server mostly via ssh.
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> this has twice the flash (8MB instead of 4) so you get a bit more space to install stuff
[16:33] <dwatkins> nifty
[16:34] <dwatkins> That can be my next project, I'll use my brother's router as a learning experience.
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> make sure you read the openwrt wiki page for the router before flashing
[16:34] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: does it lose all the settings when flashed? I configured the wifi of the linksys I'm about to setup for <IP_ADDRESS>/24 since I already have another <IP_ADDRESS>/24 network
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it loses settings if you flash a different "kind" of firmware
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (openwrt -> tomato, or tomato -> dd-wrt, etc.)
[16:35] <dwatkins> I assume this Linksys just has the default firware on it, looks like it from the web-interface.
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> but openwrt can save settings over a reflash using the "sysupgrade" command-line tool (and/or the "Upgrade" functionality in the LuCI web interface)
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> then first make sure which firmware to get from the wiki :)
[16:36] <dwatkins> yeah, I bought a specific version of this router so it's well supported, v2.0 iirc
[16:37] <dwatkins> Linksys Firmware Version: v2.02.7
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#linksys :)
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: linksys firmware version doesn't really matter
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: if the wifi chip in it is new enough, it can even support multiple wifi networks at once
[16:40] <dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS, will have a look
[16:40] <dwatkins> I'm tempted to use the Tomato firmware if its nice and easy to use - my brother doesn't want to have to learn all about the comand line just to change his daughter's bandwidth ;)
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: OpenWRT comes with an easy to use web interface, "LuCI"
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it can do QoS/bandwidth management as well, if you install the right package(s) (also from the web interface!)
[16:41] <dwatkins> haha the newest release is called "attitude adjustment"
[16:41] <dwatkins> cool, thanks
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yeah they're all named after cocktails.. "Kamikaze", "White Russian"< "Attitude Adjustment", "Barrier Breaker"
[16:42] <dwatkins> I'm a bit concerned at this: On modern OpenWRT, brcm47xx that supports a linux 2.6 kernel, the luci web interface is so slow that sometimes the watchdog timer restarts the router.
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: hmm.. I haven't noticed that yet
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's not like that on the WDR4300 ;)
[16:43] <dwatkins> yeah, i guess better specs help
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> it has a way better CPU
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> and more RAM
[18:32] <ali1234> what tool can plot data with variable time step?
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: rrdtool?
[18:32] <ali1234> wrong answer
[18:33] <ali1234> rrdtool requires that the data has a fixed time step
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> you can backdate data points and skip data points
[18:33]  * dwatkins suspects gnuplot might be able to plot all sorts of things
[18:33] <ali1234> that isn't helpful at all
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> yeah if gnuplot can't plot it, nothing can :)
[18:33] <ali1234> the way rrdtool works is if you have a gap in the data it just plots nothing
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you can make it plot the last-known value
[18:34] <ali1234> if i have readings taken at 1, 2, 3, 10 then i have two choices: i can have a graph with timestep 10 that shows only the readings at 1 and 10
[18:34] <ali1234> or i can have a graph with timestep 1 and a large gap between 3 and 10
[18:35] <ali1234> you can't make it plot the last known value because it won't even store it
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I suspect graphite (http://graphite.wikidot.com) can do it
[18:36] <ali1234> does it run on command line and is packaged in ubuntu?
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you send it messages over some simple MQ thing
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> graphite-carbon - backend data caching and persistence daemon for Graphite
[18:37] <ali1234> MQ?
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: message queue.. it can do rabbitmq
[18:37] <ali1234> i have a text file with lines like: date,value
[18:37] <penguin42> variable step seems actually quite hard
[18:37] <ali1234> i want to plot them into a png file
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> oh you can do a simple text protocol as well
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> ah
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> libgd 8-)
[18:38] <penguin42> anyone any good with gephi?
[18:38] <ali1234> using a command line like "plot -o stats.png data.txt"
[18:39] <penguin42> ali1234: It might be worth looking if there is a python graphing library?
[18:41] <ali1234> there is pylab
[18:41] <ali1234> it's kind of overkill though, and also it makes very ugly charts
[18:41]  * penguin42 is currently having the problem with the other type of graphs
[18:43] <dwatkins> I keep meaning to look into flotr2: http://humblesoftware.com/flotr2/
[18:46] <ali1234> http://matplotlib.org/examples/api/date_index_formatter.html \o/
[18:47] <dwatkins> nice
[19:32] <ali1234> matplotlib need x11 and gtk installed
[19:45] <mungbean> evening fans
[19:45] <popey> BARK BARK BARK! mungbean BARK BARK!
[19:47]  * mungbean gives popey a doggie treat
[19:47]  * popey belches dog breath at mungbean
[19:47] <brobostigon> ewww
[19:48] <mungbean> tomorrow i will embark on ubuntu openstack testing/learning. is 12.04 image still the latest for cloud servfer?
[19:49] <popey> i believe all the important bits are backported or in PPA's yes.
[19:49] <popey> Daviey knows more
[19:49] <popey> also https://twitter.com/DailyLinuxSteam/status/323523248983797760 lots of games in steam
[19:49] <popey> was 25 on release, now ~170 odd
[19:50] <mungbean> grrr baby fell asleep 10ml into a 120ml bottle
[19:50] <diplo_> heh seems normal mungbean
[19:50] <mungbean> all that screaming over nothing
[19:50]  * diplo_ thinks someone will be woken up later
[19:50] <diplo_> :D
[19:55] <mungbean> bieber lol
[19:55] <mungbean> kids today eh
[19:57] <czajkowski> aloha
[20:05] <mungbean> watching the LAS owncloud 5 review
[20:05] <mungbean> realised havent watched las for over a yea r
[21:08] <mungbean> quiet here, is there something great on telly im missing?


[12:08] <Pygi> welcome crimsun
[12:08] <crimsun> hi Pygi
[12:09] <Pygi> bye ;)
[12:59] <daniels> hrngar
[01:14] <jdub> Kamion: ping
[01:15] <jdub> Kamion: ping (printing related)
[01:16] <Kamion> jdub: I know very little about printing ...
[01:16] <jdub> oh, you're here
[01:16] <jdub> Kamion: yeah, wondering who's our "printer person" -> martin?
[01:16] <tseng> pitti
[01:17] <tseng> jsgotangco: yo
[01:17] <Kamion> jdub: yes, he's a good first port of call at least
[01:18] <jsgotangco> tseng, morning to you!
[01:20] <jdub> Kamion: see mail
[01:27] <Kamion> not really my call, but sure :)
[01:27] <Kamion> will wait for pitti to respond
[01:28] <jdub> Kamion: did you like my ping content payload? :-)
[01:29] <Kamion> better :)
[01:41] <tseng> jdub: dude, when are you release dudes going to put your foot down on Clearlooks
[01:42] <jdub> whichwhat?
[01:42] <tseng> jdub: iz gtk boog
[01:42] <tseng> clearlooks-cairo burning peoples eyes out of their skull
[01:42] <jdub> what's wrong with it?
[01:42] <jdub> it is so much love
[01:42] <tseng> its 3 times brighter
[01:43] <jdub> the blue one, yeah
[01:43] <tseng> the "default" :)
[01:43] <eruin> it's pretty!
[01:44] <jdub> tseng: our default is human
[01:45] <tseng> human is for hippies
[01:45] <tseng> or something.
[01:45] <jsgotangco> lol
[01:46] <jdub> the only trouble with human atm is that i haven't bothered to respin it for local changes, such as removing the menubar gradient, etc (not even sure if current cl supports those yet)
[01:49] <zul> heylo
[01:51] <zul> jbailey: email sent with the grub stuff
[01:53] <jdub> ooh, that reminds me
[01:53] <jdub> we should kill that ugly grub output for dapper
[01:54] <zul> jdub: with what?
[01:55] <jdub> well, probably a text editor. but i wouldn't be the least bit offended if we used a bent pipe and a blunt chisel
[01:56] <zul> :P
[01:56] <zul> i mean replace it with what?
[01:56] <jdub> nothing, just remove the ugly post-menu status output
[01:57] <infinity> And re-format the pre-menu init to be one line, instead of 3?
[01:57] <infinity> Sold.
[01:57] <zul> patches accepted ;)
[01:58] <infinity> -crap
[01:58] <infinity> +
[02:00] <zul> jdub: i just sent a diff that enables i2o support, cpqarray support, and makes the output of menu.lst a bit better
[02:14] <cjb> Hello.  I think linux-image-2.6.15-8-amd64-k8-smp has been compiled without SATA support; I get a panic mounting the root fs, where the previous 2.6.15.x have been fine.
[02:15] <infinity> It definitely has SATA support.
[02:16] <infinity> After you panic to a shell, can you 'cat /proc/partition' and see if your SATA drive (/dev/sda, for instance), has magically moved to being an IDE driver (/dev/hda, etc)?
[02:16] <cjb> I'll do that now.  Thanks.
[02:16] <infinity> If so, the bug lives in how we do module load ordering in the udev setup.
[02:17] <infinity> Back in 5.
[02:19] <cjb> I'm left without /proc after dropping to a tty.  How should I mount it?
[02:19] <cjb> (I suppose I could also just try root=/dev/hda3 and see if it works..)
[02:20] <TheMuso> cjb: Don't forget that /etc/fstab has the original partition entry, which means teh boot will halt when it tries to remount the root filesystem read-write.
[02:22] <cjb> Nope, /dev/hda3 fails too.
[02:22] <mdke> sounds like a different bug
[02:22] <cjb> TheMuso: Haven't got far enough to be able to see /etc yet.  :)
[02:25] <crimsun> cjb: echo $ROOT
[02:25] <cjb> infinity's correct about /lib/modules/2.6.15-8-amd64-k8-smp/kernel/drivers/scsi/sata_*.ko being present.
[02:26] <infinity> If you don't h /proc yet, you're definitely seeing a different bug than the one I was describing.
[02:26] <cjb> crimsun: As passed to the kernel?  root=/dev/sda3 is what I usually pass, and I've now tried root/dev/hda3.
[02:27] <cjb> Oh!  I have /proc this boot.  partitions is empty, though.
[02:27] <infinity> Can you boot without "quiet" and "splash" and watch the kernel output?.. See if it's loading your drivers at all?
[02:28] <infinity> Also, cat /proc/modules and see if the right drivers appear to be loaded.
[02:28] <cjb> Just did that.  :)  sata_sil and scsi_mod are loaded.
[02:32] <cjb> I see:  ata1: SATA link up 1.5Gbps .. ata1: dev0 not supported, ignoring.
[02:33] <cjb> (There's only one hdd in the machine, and my IDE DVD/CD drives are up on hd{c,d} -- it must be the SATA hdd that it's talking about.)
[02:33] <infinity> Oh, fun.
[02:34] <cjb> So I wonder if "not supported" means that the SATA module I need isn't there.  Lemme boot back into the good kernel and see what it uses.
[02:34] <infinity> I'd take that one to #ubuntu-kernel and complain to BenC, then... (or file a bug on the "linux" package
[02:34] <cjb> Ah hah.  Thanks much.
[02:35] <BenC> dev0 is a cdrom?
[02:35] <infinity> No, it's his hard drive. :)
[02:35] <infinity> root device, no less.
[02:37] <BenC> cjb: is there an error line before ata1: dev0 not supported, ignoring?
[02:38] <cjb> It's just using sata_sil under the (working) 2.6.15-6-amd64-k8-smp, which is the same module that's loaded but not working with 2.6.15-8.
[02:38] <cjb> BenC: No, the previous line is the quoted one finding the channel.
[02:39] <BenC> that message gets spit out thwn ata_id_is_ata() returns false, so something is saying that your harddrive is not actually an ATA drive :)
[02:39] <cjb>  /proc/scsi/scsi under 2.6.15-6 disagrees with whatever is saying that :)
[02:39] <BenC> s/thwn/when/, not sure how I got that from my keyboard
[02:40] <BenC> I've seen this in one other bug report
[02:40] <BenC> but it got fixed with -8, not broken with it
[02:41] <cjb> And fixes never cause regressions, right?  :)
[02:41] <BenC> it shouldn't cause the same regression that it fixes, that would make it not a fix :)
[02:42] <cjb> I don't know if that's what's happened, though; I have been following each of the dapper kernels, so it seems fairly straightforward that something has changed that's breaking it for me.  I'm not doing anything more complicated than apt-get'ing the newer image.
[02:42] <BenC> I'm not saying that it isn't broken
[02:43] <BenC> I'm saying that the same error you have, I fixed for another use by reverting the driver back to stock source for -8
[02:43] <BenC> hold on a second
[02:43] <cjb> 'kay.  I'd be interested to see the diff.
[02:44] <BenC> I need to make sure this is the same driver (it was sata, but maybe not the sil driver)
[02:45] <BenC> nope, stock code
[02:45] <BenC> so whatever is in 2.6.15-rc6 is what I have in my tree
[02:46] <BenC> the patch I had was basically a pull from jgarzik's libata git tree
[02:46] <cjb> Hrr.  Righto.
[02:55] <cjb> Well, let me know if I can do anything to track it down.  I suppose for now I'll starting building my own kernels and keep trying your latest ones when they come out.
[03:06] <lamont> daniels: ping
[03:31] <dooglus> if I use the dapper build of firefox, it doesn't know any trusted certificate authorities.  running the official mozilla build on the same profile does see the authorities.  should I report this as a bug?
[03:31] <dooglus> or is dapper in enough of a state of flux that it's not worth reporting?
[03:32] <cjb> I'm running what is presumably the same build, and do have a CA chain.
[03:33] <exarkun> if you had an old profile, or run an official firefox build with a profile created w/ dapper's firefox, it will add the CAs to the profile, and subsequent runs of dapper's firefox will have the CA chain.
[03:40] <marcin> hi I see you guys are talking about firefox on dapper - on my dekstop firefox doesn't work at all - it shows a little window with "<window id.... " info and that's all
[03:41] <marcin> is that a known issue or should I file the bug?
[03:41] <cjb> Actually, I blitzed my profile this morning.  You're saying that the CA chain is stored in each user's profile, then, and not given to a new profile?  Why?
[03:41] <cjb> marcin: Not seeing that here.  Try killing your profile.
[03:42] <marcin> I removed almost everything from my ~/ and still no luck
[03:42] <marcin> cjb: is there another way to kill profile?
[03:42] <cjb> mv .firefox .firefox-bak should do it.
[03:42] <marcin> cjb: epiphany is usable - but firefox isn't
[03:43] <exarkun> unless your profiles are in ~/.mozilla :)
[03:43] <cjb> You can also try firefox -ProfileManager
[03:44] <marcin> removed old profile and created new... ffox still broken
[03:44] <marcin> it says - starting 'deer park' and then... as I said before
[03:45] <marcin> maybe I'll try to uninstall ffox and manually remove all ffox directories in /usr
[03:48] <dooglus> I tried making a new profile with the dapper firefox.  It still shows no CA chain.
[03:48] <dooglus> but then running the official mozilla build with the profile that the dapper build made shows the chain just fine.
[03:49] <dooglus> I installed dapper in a chroot a long time ago, and now am booting it directly using LILO - I don't know if that resulted in me missing some essential setup
[03:49] <exarkun> a dist-upgrade from breezy does the same thing
[03:49] <exarkun> I am pretty sure the ff package is just broken.
[03:50] <dooglus> I don't think it ever went though a full install procedure - like it never asked me what kind of keyboard I have - and so in virtual consoles it uses the USA layout.
[03:50] <dooglus> exarkun: but cjb has it working...
[03:51] <dooglus> exarkun: and I didn't do a dist-upgrade.  I ran some command which installed dapper in a chroot, and then I configured lilo to boot that chroot partition directly.
[03:51] <dooglus> so it's never been "installed" other than by the script which set up the initial chroot
[03:52] <dooglus> incidentally, if you run "sudo passwd", type your user password if prompted and then type control-d to both the password prompts, do you see a sigsegv?
[03:52] <marcin> haaa finally - thanks guys - I manually cleaned profile and all firefox dirs in /var and /usr and now it's usable
[03:57] <cjb> dooglus: Yes.
[03:57] <cjb> #0  0x00002aaaab7d33c8 in pam_sm_chauthtok () from /lib/security/pam_unix.so
[04:07] <bmonty> elmo: please sync privoxy from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:48] <jdub> *cough*
[04:48] <jdub> hahaha:
[04:48] <jdub> > > This discussion is more appropriate on sounder (hint).
[04:48] <jdub> >
[04:48] <jdub> > No.  This is important.
[04:48] <jdub>
[04:48] <jdub> (... that's why it's happen on -users?!)
[04:49] <lifeless> yes. because uninformed opinion is useful
[04:49] <jdub> i guess i should read this thread
[04:49] <jdub> under attack!
[04:50] <mjg59> It'll just depress me
[04:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:00] <Tm_T> wivefabbid
[05:01] <dooglus> cjb: me too.  only happens for root though.
[05:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't understand this MTA issue. So mailx and postfix were removed from the Ubuntu install cd?
[05:13] <mjg59> LaserJock: I don't think postfix has been installed by default for a while
[05:14] <mjg59> LaserJock: And it seems to be part of the ship seed (still)
[05:17] <LaserJock> excuse my ignorance but aren't they CLI email apps? Doesn't evolution and thunderbird like apps replace them.
[05:17] <Tm_T> err
[05:18] <Tm_T> gui doesn't replace cli
[05:18] <Tm_T> atleast not in my use
[05:18] <LaserJock> I understand that
[05:19] <LaserJock> but if we are shipping evolution why would we need postfix/mail? for the common user anyway
[05:19] <LaserJock> I just hear a lot about them but I don't use them so I don't really know what they do
[05:21] <crimsun> there're nasty threads on u-u about that
[05:21] <mjg59> LaserJock: postfix is a mail server
[05:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that is what I'm trying to figure out
[05:21] <crimsun> most of them completely over-the-top and incoherent
[05:21] <LaserJock> mjg59: why would a user need a mail server?
[05:22] <mjg59> LaserJock: In general, you don't
[05:23] <Tm_T> in general, you don't need thunderbird and evolution
[05:23] <Tm_T> just one
[05:23] <LaserJock> well, I know I don't need both I was just thinking that those two would cover most of the Ubuntu users email usage
[05:27] <LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out why people would be so mad about not having mailx/postfix on the install cd
[05:28] <Tm_T> heh
[05:30] <lamont> mjg59: postfix was default install in warty, can't remember about hoary, gone from base in breezy
[05:30] <lamont> was in ubuntu-base in hoary
[05:30] <lamont> still in breezy ship-seed, iirc
[05:30] <mjg59> lamont: Yeah, that's what I thought
[05:31] <lamont> and the effort had and has my full endorsement.
[05:31] <lamont> (ship, not part of base or desktop)
[05:31] <LaserJock> I mean I was kinda weirded out when I saw that Ubuntu doesn't install the ssh server by default but there are logical reasons so I'm ok with it. I install it first thing when I install Ubuntu, no problem
[05:31] <LaserJock> seems like a similar situation with mailx/postfix
[05:31] <lamont> LaserJock: that's the same reason I supported not installing postfix by default
[05:32] <lamont> specifically, the desktop install must present _NO_ externally listening ports (<IP_ADDRESS> is OK, but still discouraged)
[05:32] <lamont> hence no ssh server, and (in warty/hoary) a crippled postfix install.  By dropping it from the base install, I get to ask the questions I need to properly configure things if you do choose to install it.
[05:32] <lamont> --> good thing
[05:35] <LaserJock> makes sense to me
[05:35] <lamont> LaserJock: the other edict is "no questions unless you (1) can't configure without asking it, and (2) grandma will know the answer."  postfix's required questions fail (2)
[05:36] <lamont> and frankly, an MTA on grandma's machine is just going to slowly fill /var/mail, and never get read, or understood if it is read.
[05:37] <LaserJock> hmm, what goes into /var/mail? messages from the computer?
[05:37] <lamont> cron output, for starters.
[05:38] <lamont> and a few other things like to send email if it's available
[05:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I never knew that. I thought apps used /var/logs/
[05:38] <lamont> not all of them by any means
[05:41] <LaserJock> ok, well I think I understand what's going on in you-you better now.  LOL
[05:52] <shawarma> Yeah, that's pretty stupid.
[05:52] <lamont> (I expect_)
[05:53] <LaserJock> yes, lamont is right
[05:53] <LaserJock> I usually use irssi or xchat, but tonight I'm on my wife's Windows laptop so I'm using gaim
[05:53] <shawarma> ssh to a proper machine with irssi on it?
[05:54] <LaserJock> I was lazy tonight ;-)
[05:54] <LaserJock> I sure wish xchat was free for Windows
[05:54] <shawarma> Huh? It's not?
[05:54] <LaserJock> $19.95
[05:55] <exarkun> it is, if you build it yourself
[05:55] <exarkun> building things on win32 is hard enough that people actually pay for the binaries though :)
[05:55] <LaserJock> exarkun: hmm, I don't think it is quite worth the trouble to build it myself
[05:56] <seth_k|lappy> LaserJock, http://silenceisdefeat.org/~b0at/xchat/win32/
[05:56] <seth_k|lappy> other people took the trouble so you don't have to
[05:58] <LaserJock> seth_k|lappy: oh, that's cool.
[06:02] <LaserJock> k, brb
[06:03] <LaserJock> oh, yeah. that is much better
[06:04] <seth_k|lappy> :)
[06:05] <LaserJock> thank you seth_k|lappy. I have been wanting that for at least a month now
[06:05] <seth_k|lappy> np LaserJock, glad I knew the link
[06:05] <LaserJock> yeah, I got so bummed out by the xchat website that I gave up
[06:16] <fabbione> morning
[06:56] <StevenK> Is there any hard and fast rule what to do about a library that still wants to use imake from the X packages? Do we kill them, or fix them, or what?
[06:57] <StevenK> My digging has shown that it is deeply intwined with the imake template files that used to be provided by xutils, and I'm just unsure of where to go from here.
[06:58] <fabbione> StevenK: try to kill them :)
[06:58] <fabbione> or you will need to fall in love with Imake
[06:58] <fabbione> sivang: ping?
[06:58] <StevenK> fabbione: IE: Don't try and auto* it myself?
[06:59] <fabbione> StevenK: that's what i would suggest..
[06:59] <fabbione> Imake is easy to use.. really
[06:59] <fabbione> but you get binded to an old obsolete way of building X ckages
[06:59] <fabbione> packages
[07:00] <StevenK> It's just going to be a large diff due to me having to pull a large number of imake files from the old xutils.
[07:06] <fabbione> StevenK: not really
[07:06] <fabbione> you don
[07:07] <fabbione> you don't need to pull them
[07:07] <fabbione> you need to install the proper B-D on dapper
[07:07] <fabbione> there is Imake and all the config files as before
[07:07] <fabbione> just in different pkgs
[07:07] <dholbach> good morning
[07:07] <fabbione> hey dholbach
[07:08] <jsgotangco> hey dholbach
[07:08] <dholbach> hey Fabio, Jerome, how are you guys doing?
[07:09] <jsgotangco> dholbach, pretty good, just a week before christmas, making sure work targets are done
[07:09] <fabbione> dholbach: still asleep :)
[07:15] <infinity> elmo : libselpol1-dev is begging to get promoted to main, I'm assuming.
[07:15] <dholbach> hi infinity
[07:17] <pitti> Good morning
[07:17] <dholbach> hellas martin
[07:18] <infinity> HAH.  php.net can bite me.
[07:19] <infinity> pitti : Remember my old curl open_basedir fix that upstream did differently in 4.4.0?
[07:19] <infinity> pitti : Well, mine works, there's doesn't.  So, breezy needs an update for the "extra curl vuln", hoary and warty don't.
[07:19] <pitti> infinity: heh
[07:20] <infinity> s/there's/theirs/  I should start pretending I'm German, so I have an excuse for these things.
[07:20] <pitti> infinity: did they take your patch now?
[07:20] <infinity> No, they just made theirs even more complex in 4.4.1 to work around the problem. :)
[07:20] <pitti> infinity: oh, I seldomly mix up things that merely sound similar (modulo typos)
[07:21] <infinity> I'm following their codebase in breezy/dapper, since we have half their fix, but I'm not about to use their patch in the older releases, when ours works and is readable.
[07:21] <pitti> infinity: well, since they made it very clear that they, by and large, are not interested in fixing that stuff at all, I wonder why they try to patch it...
[07:22] <infinity> They've been fixing a LOT of safe_mode and open_basedir stuff recently.
[07:22] <pitti> hmm, mood of the day? :)
[07:22] <infinity> I can't help but think we may have been one of the groups that pushed them to do so by continuing to do security releases against their wishes. :P
[07:22] <infinity> It definitely looks like a bit of a change of heart, anyway.
[07:23] <maswan> infinity: Oh? php developers getting a quarter of a clue wrt security?
[07:23] <infinity> Especially withupstream actually alerting vendor-sec to safe_mode/open_basedir fixes...
[07:23] <infinity> Heck, they didn't used to tell vendor-sec about ANYTHING.
[07:24] <maswan> This is indeed news. Perhaps one could even use php on a resonably secure hobby setting soon. :P
[07:24] <fabbione> hey maswan
[07:24] <maswan> fabbione: $greeting_phrase
[07:25] <pitti> Hi marilize
[07:25] <jdub> morning marilize
[07:25] <marilize> hi pitti :) jdub:)
[07:25] <fabbione> hey marcin
[07:25] <fabbione> bah
[07:25] <fabbione> hey marilize
[07:25] <marilize> fabbione! morning
[07:26] <maswan> I wonder if I'll get time to fiddle around with that dapper machine again at work, or if I'm going to be busy doing actual work instead of filing bug reports. ;)
[07:26] <infinity> pitti : Oh, and you can mark us not vulnerable for that PEAR CVE.. Our PEAR is too old to have the broken feature.
[07:26] <pitti> infinity: the installer thing? good to hear :)
[07:26] <marilize> fabbione: I'm going to change my name to just *M*
[07:27] <pitti> security through obsolescence
[07:27] <fabbione> marilize: good plan :)
[07:27] <infinity> Word.
[07:27] <pitti> infinity: (however that it spelt correctly...)
[07:27] <infinity> Looks right to me.
[07:27] <jdub> marilize: a good precedent would inspire _M_
[07:27] <infinity> And dict agrees.
[07:27] <jdub> like this:
[07:28] <jdub> boh!
[07:28] <jdub> _M_ is already in use
[07:28] <_J_> la la la
[07:28] <maswan> moo
[07:28] <_J_> sydney is so great
[07:28] <_J_> blue skies
[07:28] <_J_> lovely sun
[07:28] <infinity> pitti : So, anyhow, the patches are all pretty much sorted, I'll finish testing POCs and do some uploads later.
[07:28] <_J_> haw haw haw
[07:28] <marilize> jdub: heh
[07:29] <marilize> jdub: we might get confused whos who!
[07:29] <maswan> well, if _M_ is taken, how about _M-? :)
[07:29] <jdub> ^M^ ;-)
[07:30] <maswan> with _-=^ we could have 16 different M's around. ;)
[07:30] <marilize> ok ok ok, I'm already confused who I am now
[07:31] <maswan> with A-Z and 0-9 we could even handle entrie #ubuntu..
[07:31] <maswan> hm.. I wonder if I should get dressed and head to work instead of pondering very silly nick schemes
[07:32] <marilize> maswan: maybe :) a P for Pants
[07:33] <jdub> pants off!!!
[07:33] <marilize> jdub: Mr pantless
[07:33] <maswan> Hmm.. I wonder if I should write a concerned letter to cannonical, with regard to dress code
[07:34] <maswan> .. or, put on pants and head to work. righ.t
[07:34] <jdub> maswan: best bit of working for virtual company: no pants; worst bit: no christmas party and subsequent water cooler rumours.
[07:34] <lifeless> jdub: dude. We should have an xmas party
[07:35] <jdub> yeah, to piss everyone else off
[07:35] <jdub> i just got my amazon delivery today
[07:35] <jdub> finally have a copy of UGH
[07:35] <jdub> er
[07:35] <jdub> UHF
[07:35] <lifeless> we could have an official one, employees 2 & 3
[07:35] <infinity> dholbach : Care to be my desktop guru for the day?
[07:35] <jdub> should have a party to watch that
[07:35] <lifeless> UHF ?
[07:36] <jdub> the weird al movie
[07:36] <jdub> very funny
[07:36] <lifeless> cool
[07:36] <lifeless> sounds good
[07:36] <jdub> has lots of before-they-were-stars comedians in it
[07:36] <dholbach> infinity: desktop guru? :)
[07:38] <infinity> dholbach : I need someone to fix firefox-dev/libnspr-dev/libnss-dev, and I tihnk Diziet's already on VAC.
[07:38] <infinity> dholbach : Two problems I can see.  firefox-dev doesn't depend on libnss-dev/libnspr-dev (oops), and even if it did, the headers are probably in the wrong location to be found.
[07:38] <infinity> dholbach : See the totem build failure on i386 to see what I mean. :)
[07:38] <dholbach> i uploaded devhelp had the same problems :-(
[07:39] <dholbach> "..., which...
[07:39] <dholbach> "
[07:39] <dholbach> funnily enough it built on amd64 and ia64 :)
[07:39] <lifeless> ", which i uploaded devhelp had the same problems:-(" ?
[07:40] <infinity> dholbach : All about timing, I think.
[07:40] <dholbach> ok... once again: "i uploaded devhelp, which had the same problems :-(" :-)
[07:41] <dholbach> why don't we just chuck out mozilla* :)
[07:41] <jdub> yeah!
[07:41] <dholbach> or rename its libnss-dev to libnss-crackpot-dev or something
[07:41] <infinity> That's not the problem.
[07:42] <infinity> The problem is twofold:  The new libnss-dev installs headers ot the wrong place.
[07:42] <dholbach> what is the problem you see?
[07:42] <infinity> And firefox-dev has no idea how to find them.
[07:42] <dholbach> oh, i didn't see the first part of the problem
[07:43] <jsgotangco> hey JaneW
[07:44] <jsgotangco> bah! be a man!
[07:44] <dholbach> real men *can* cry :-p
[07:44] <infinity> dholbach : Easy enough to fix, I'm just busy.  Fix the firefox source package to install the headers to the same location they were at in breezy.. (I think we just have an extra subdirectory in the path), fix firefox-dev to depend on libsnpr-dev and libnss-dev, and make sure the ffox headers can find nspr (some symlinks might do for now)
[07:45] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco
[07:45] <infinity> ie : /usr/include/firefox/nspr -> ../../mozilla/nspr or so.
[07:45] <dholbach> infinity: what about the two different libnspr* packages? Does (= ${Source-Version}) just work in this case?
[07:46] <infinity> dholbach : And test a build with a known-failing package before uploading. :)
[07:46] <dholbach> righto
[07:46] <infinity> dholbach : The ones from mozilla will be removed.  But yes, the firefox-dev -> libnss/nspr-dev dependencies should be versioned.
[07:47] <dholbach> (I just thought it might not work, because of mozilla's packages having epochs and everything.)
[07:47] <infinity> The firefox versions have a higher version number.
[07:48] <infinity> If they didn't, katie would have rejected them.
[07:48] <infinity> 2:1.firefox1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg-1ubuntu6 versus 2:1.7.12-1ubuntu2
[07:48] <infinity> (Wow, ewww...)
[07:49] <infinity> Anyhow, if you cause your desktop wiles to fix firefox, that'd be cool.  If you can't, I'll have to attack it tomorrow when I'm back on the "archive installability" warpath.
[07:50] <infinity> I'm taking a break from that for a day, though, to do other work. :)
[07:50] <dholbach> oh, and firefox ftbfs on everything but ia386?
[07:50] <dholbach> i386
[07:50] <dholbach> nice
[07:51] <dholbach> that explains, why devhelp built on amd64 and ia64
[07:51] <infinity> Indeed.
[07:55] <floam> has there been any talk of the possibility of xchat-gnome replacing xchat?
[07:55] <jdub> floam: -> ubuntu-desktop (list and channel)
[07:55] <floam> oh, it's not even in main, probably not
[07:56] <dholbach> floam: it's is being considered
[07:56] <floam> geeze, I never knew there were so many channels.
[07:56] <floam> is there a channel for each list?
[07:56] <floam> whoa.
[07:56] <floam> heh
[07:57] <floam> I guess 90% of my traffic here has been spam then, I'm sure there was something everything could have been categorized as
[08:03] <lucas> hi
[08:11] <maswan> jdub: well, there are replacements for xmas parties when it comes to rumours, debconf springs to mind. :)
[08:29] <dholbach> infinity: nice, firefox ftbfs on the other architectures in some crazy gtkmozembed test - this gives me confidence about fixing gnome<->firefox
[09:38] <sivang> fabbione: pong
[09:38] <sivang> morning all
[09:39] <fabbione> sivang: hi, i just saw your request to be part of Ubuntu Server
[09:39] <fabbione> you might want to add at least your interests in it on your wiki and how you plan to contribute?
[09:39] <fabbione> join mailing list and irc channel?
[09:41] <sivang> fabbione: will do. Already helped with DB2 certification (ask Malc) , interested in the dapper+1 out of the box server confs (hopefully writing GUI wrappers for CLI stuff) and did bits of testing on pSeries
[09:41] <sivang> fabbione: and givign ideas
[09:42] <fabbione> sivang: ok.. just add it to the wiki. I know about the DB2 stuff
[09:43] <sivang> fabbione: sure, will do, sorry for the fuss.
[09:43] <fabbione> it's no problem,,
[09:43] <fabbione> i am applying the same policy to everybody
[09:59] <pitti> Hi mvo
[09:59] <mvo> hey pitti
[10:14] <Kamion> jdub: still up, re ttf-dejavu?
[10:15] <jdub> yo
[10:15] <seb128> hey hey jdub :)
[10:15] <Kamion> jdub: I'm happy to respin ubuntu-meta for you, but I'd rather you made the seed change
[10:16] <jdub> Kamion: so you can point at me and laugh when it breaks?
[10:16] <jdub> morning seb128
[10:16] <Kamion> and in general that people requesting seed changes make them themselves so that we know who to contact
[10:16] <Kamion> jdub: more or less, yes
[10:16] <jdub> :-)
[10:16] <jdub> archive location?
[10:16] <Kamion> sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/seeds/dapper
[10:16] <Kamion> (bzr)
[10:17] <jdub> oh
[10:17] <jdub> ber
[10:23] <jdub> Kamion: i am waiting for bzr to do... whatever it is that it's doing without telling me.
[11:01] <pitti> Kamion: here?
[11:01] <pitti> Kamion: I adapted pcmciautils to the new libsysfs; my branch is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/pcmciautils-libsysfs2/
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion: could you please pull/merge and test this? I don't have pcmcia, so I can't
[11:14] <Kamion> pitti: will do, thanks
[11:17] <pitti> Kamion: I mailed you, btw
[11:31] <Treenaks> Is there much 'future breakage' expected in dapper (on the scale of udev/kernel/X/etc)?
[11:33] <Kamion> pitti: so libsysfs actually removed the old API?
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: well, not completely, they just made it much more consistent and orthogonal
[11:33] <pitti> unfortunately that also killed some convenience functions
[11:34] <Kamion> and are the functions you used in libsysfs1, or are they new in libsysfs2?
[11:35] <pitti> Kamion: sysfs_read_attribute/open_attribute were already there in 1.3
[11:36] <pitti> Kamion: however, I didn't try to build with 1.3
[12:15] <Kamion> pitti: ok, works fine with 1.3; I've forwarded it upstream
[12:15] <pitti> cool, thanks
[12:20] <Kamion> jdub: have you pushed your changes?
[12:21] <pitti> ba, go autotools
[12:23] <pitti> how can I disable automatic regenration of autocrap files during package build?
[12:25] <azeem> make sure the timestamps are alright so make doesn't think some of the files need updating
[12:25] <pitti> hm, 'touch configure' doesn't help
[12:26] <pitti> I so much hate autotools for this crap
[12:39] <jdub> Kamion: so i branched - how do i push?
[12:39] <jdub> Kamion: branched/changed/committed
[12:46] <Kamion> jdub: you'll have to merge first, since I had something I needed to commit
[12:46] <Kamion> jdub: then 'bzr push', assuming reasonably current bzr (>= 0.6.2, or with bzrtools)
[12:49] <jdub> bum, i have 0.6.2 and push doesn't work
[12:49] <jdub> just get bzrtools?
[12:50] <pitti> jdub: paramiko?
[12:50] <jdub> got it
[12:51] <jdub> so i did a bzr merge, do i have to commit that?
[12:51] <\sh> jdub: jepp
[12:54] <jdub> $ bzr push chinstrap.ubuntu.com:/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/seeds/dapper
[12:54] <jdub> bzr: ERROR: Local branch is not a newer version of remote branch.
[12:54] <ogra> did you commit ?
[12:54] <mvo> jdub: did you get the same error after you commited your local changes? or commited the merge?
[12:55] <jdub> hrm
[12:55] <jdub> i branched
[12:55] <jdub> committed my changes
[12:55] <jdub> merged
[12:55] <jdub> committed those changes
[12:55] <jdub> now i'm trying to push
[12:55] <ogra> hmm
[12:55] <jdub> no diff atm
[01:15] <Kamion> jdub: what does pull say?
[01:20] <zul> Kamion: did you get my email?
[01:26] <Kamion> zul: yes, thanks
[01:26] <Kamion> probably can't look today but should have time tomorrow
[01:26] <zul> no problem
[01:28] <zul> later got to get ready for work..
[01:31] <doko> pitti, Kamion: when is the locales talk today?
[01:32] <pitti> doko: 1500 UTC?
[01:32] <doko> thanks
[01:34] <jdub> Kamion:
[01:34] <jdub> $ bzr pull
[01:34] <jdub> Using saved location: sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/seeds/dapper
[01:34] <jdub> $
[01:36] <Kamion> so *should* be fine ...
[01:37] <Kamion> jdub: we can give up and have me commit it if you like :-PYTHONPATH=/home/cjwatson/src/packages/tailor/darcs/tailor python2.4 ~/src/packages/tailor/darcs/tailor/tailor --configfile sync.tailor
[01:37] <Kamion> er
[01:37] <Kamion> like :-/
[01:37] <jdub> heh
[01:37] <jdub> seems like it
[01:37] <Kamion> pitti: I have to be at school by 1530 for a carol service, so I can only make the start of that unfortunately
[01:37] <jdub> we can point our fingers and laugh at mbp in the morning
[01:38] <pitti> Kamion: an hour earlier is fine for me, too (or any time before that), but jbailey wanted to attend
[01:38] <Kamion> no it's ok
[01:39] <jbailey> pitti: An hour earlier is still fine for me.
[01:39] <Mithrandir> 1400 UTC WFM as well
[01:40] <pitti> doko, mvo, Kamion: 1400 UTC for the locales meeting?
[01:40] <Kamion> sure
[01:40] <doko> ok
[01:40] <Kamion> thanks
[01:42] <tepsipakki> kamion: is the dapper netboot-installer still b0rked or should I file bugs?
[01:44] <Kamion> feel free to file bugs if you've reproduced them with the current images
[01:45] <mvo> ok
[01:45] <tepsipakki> kamion: well, new ones (regressions) compared to breezy
[01:46] <Kamion> tepsipakki: sure, just please check existing bugs first
[01:46] <tepsipakki> yeah, sure
[01:46] <jbailey> seb128: Around>
[01:46] <jbailey> ?
[02:10] <Kamion> jdub: do you have the diff handy?
[02:10] <Kamion> for the seed change
[02:14] <janimo> Riddell, infinity ping
[02:14] <Riddell> janimo: hi
[02:15] <janimo> is ubuntu-docs supposed to use update-alternatives soon?
[02:15] <janimo> and kubuntu-docs as well
[02:15] <janimo> infinity said someting about that, since it is better than dpkg-divert
[02:16] <Riddell> janimo: I thought \sh had already changed it to that
[02:16] <janimo> seems not, inifinity said it's just symlink by hand
[02:17] <janimo> and to do that ubuntu-docs has to have that too I assume
[02:18] <Kamion> for update-alternatives, all packages shipping the relevant file must cooperate
[02:20] <infinity> Which isn't rocket science in this case.
[02:20] <infinity> So we should just Do It.
[02:20] <Riddell> hmm, postinst sets a symlink while postrm unsets dpkg-divert
[02:21] <infinity> He probably forgot to remove that from postrm, since both used to divert.
[02:21] <Riddell> if update-alternatives is the right thing to do I can just do it later today
[02:21] <infinity> Anyhow.  We should switch to alternatives for all the packages shipping that file, since you can't divergt a file more than once.
[02:21] <janimo> who has to be nudged for ubuntu-docs?
[02:21] <infinity> (So, installing three doc packages will blow up)
[02:21] <infinity> janimo : I can do ubuntu-docs now as the example package for you guys to follow.
[02:22] <janimo> infinity , nice thanks
[02:22] <infinity> Is there just the one file in question here right now?
[02:22] <infinity> (the firefox index)
[02:22] <janimo> yes index.html
[02:22] <Riddell> yes
[02:23] <infinity> Kay.  I'll poke both of you when ubuntu-docs is up.
[02:23] <Riddell> might need to be renamed for alternatives, index.html is too generic?
[02:23] <infinity> Or I could do all three.
[02:23] <infinity> Which might be easier.
[02:23] <slomo> doko: ping? for xine-lib... i could choose debian-compatible names but what does it help us? the debian maintainer seems to be MIA... but siretart tried to contact him directly, i'll wait some further days for an answer... maybe we can find a solution for debian and ubuntu
[02:23] <infinity> The alternative name will be something more obscure, yes.
[02:23] <Riddell> infinity: I need to update kubuntu-docs today anyway, so I can do it
[02:24] <infinity> Alright.
[02:24] <infinity> janimo : Did you want me to do xubuntu-docs for you?
[02:24] <infinity> Does edubuntu also install a file there?
[02:24] <janimo> infinity, I can do that thanks
[02:24] <janimo> especially since xubuntu-docs is not uploaded yet , I have been waiting on this issue exactly
[02:24] <janimo> :)
[02:25] <infinity> Oh god, ubuntu-docs uses CDBS, someone shoot me.
[02:25] <infinity> fabbione : Thanks.
[02:25] <fabbione> infinity: no problem :)
[02:26] <jbailey> infinity: What's the problem?
[02:26] <jsgotangco> hey all
[02:26] <dholbach> yeah infinity: what's the problem?
[02:26] <infinity> jbailey : 3-line rules files scare me.
[02:26] <dholbach> they look pretty
[02:26] <pitti> they make sense :)
[02:27] <Kamion> pretty> debian/rules files are not bonsai trees
[02:27] <jbailey> *lol*
[02:27] <infinity> Not if you want to go "okay, in this part of the build, I want to do -- DEAR GOD, WHERE IS THAT PART OF THE BUILD?!"
[02:27] <infinity> (or any part of the build, for that matter)
[02:27] <infinity> jbailey : Anyhow, since you're around, you want to do this instead? :)
[02:27] <janimo> isn;t the update-alt stuff outside debian/rules?
[02:27] <infinity> jbailey : Make the default firefox start page an alternative?
[02:27] <janimo> only in the postinst & co
[02:28] <infinity> janimo : Yes, but installing the index.html to another location isn't. :)
[02:28] <pitti> janimo: right
[02:28] <janimo> inifinity, true :)
[02:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: are you one of those insane people who think xslt makes sense too? :-)
[02:28] <pitti> infinity: mod'ing debian/package.install doesn't work?
[02:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, I am :)
[02:28] <Kamion> pitti: dh_install can't change file names
[02:28] <Kamion> it can only put them in different directories
[02:28] <pitti> ah, I read that as 'different location', i. e. different dir
[02:29] <janimo> rename it to index-ubuntu.html
[02:29] <janimo> and the other do it similarly?
[02:29] <infinity> pitti : No, different name, so we have ubuntu-index.html, xubuntu-index.html, etc.
[02:29] <pitti> janimo: why not rename it in the source package?
[02:29] <infinity> (Or whatever)
[02:29] <jbailey> infinity: I'd rather not do it now, but perhas this afternoon.
[02:29] <ogra> *hand
[02:29] <janimo> pitti, yes in source package I mean
[02:29] <pitti> so, what's the problem?
[02:29] <infinity> pitti : Renaming it in the source is fine, except in the case of ubuntu-docs, which is an SVN checkout of a repo I don't have write access to.
[02:30] <pitti> anyway, sorry for the noise, you'll figure it out :)
[02:30] <janimo> change firefox to point to another new index file you create ;)
[02:30] <jbailey> infinity: I have write access, what do you want changed? =)
[02:31] <ogra> janimo, oh, yeah, lets make xubuntu-firefox and edubuntu-firefox packages instead, thats way easier *g*
[02:31] <janimo> ogra, my thought exactly ;)
[02:31] <infinity> jbailey : Rename the default firefox start page from index.html to ubuntu-index.html or index-ubuntu.html, or something.
[02:31] <Riddell> infinity: I can commit changes back to the svn
[02:32] <infinity> Err, wait.  It's not index.html anyway, is it?
[02:32] <infinity> At least, not in the source. :)
[02:32] <infinity> Riddell : What's the file being alternatived here? :)
[02:32] <Riddell>  /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[02:32] <janimo> I think it is index.html
[02:32] <ogra> yup
[02:32] <jbailey> infinity: Are you working in a branch or on the trunk?
[02:32] <janimo> ogra, you divert it in edubuntu as well?
[02:32] <infinity> Oh, it's in ubuntu-artwork, not ubuntu-docs.
[02:33] <janimo> in breezy too?
[02:33] <ogra> janimo, nope, i did nasty cp's
[02:33] <janimo> infinity the package _is_ ubuntu docs I think
[02:33] <janimo> it;'s under the artwork dir for some reason
[02:33] <infinity> Oh, so it is.
[02:34] <infinity> jbailey : Neither, just in the source package for ubuntu-docs.  Err, which is probably being generated from some other format.
[02:34] <infinity> Why am I working at 12:34am?
[02:34] <infinity> No, really, why? :)
[02:35] <Pygi> I think you need to answer to that one by yourself ;)
[02:35] <siretart> slomo: re: sigge. I didnt manage to write the email yet, will do that later today.
[02:35] <janimo> infinity, what are yoy talking about it's 15:35 :)
[02:35] <Pygi> no, it's 14:35 ;)
[02:36] <jbailey> dholbach: ping?
[02:36] <slomo> siretart: oh ok, sorry :/
[02:36] <dholbach> jbailey: pong
[02:36] <jbailey> dholbach: Do you have an ubuntu-docs checkout of the trunk handy?
[02:37] <dholbach> jbailey: no, not ready
[02:38] <jbailey> dholbach: 'kay, no worries.
[02:44] <doko> slomo: it's not necessary, just a proposal
[02:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you push your casper branch?
[02:45] <Kamion> or have you moved it?
[02:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: there's a trunk now which is the trunk
[02:45] <Kamion> ah, you've moved it, never mind
[02:45] <slomo> doko: ok, but we're searching for a generic solution anyway... maybe by taking over maintainership in debian... we'll see...
[02:46] <Kamion> you should probably s/unstable/dapper/ in the 1.19 changelog in the trunk
[02:46] <infinity> Picky, picky.
[02:46] <Mithrandir> done
[02:55] <pitti> mvo: waaait
[02:55] <pitti> mvo: locales meeting in 5 minutes?
[02:55] <Pygi> anyone here that have the "power" to make ubuntu bot come to #ubuntu-hr? ;)
[02:55] <ogra> Pygi, speak to smurf, he's te master of the LoCoBot
[02:56] <ogra> *the
[02:56] <Pygi> k, thx
[02:57] <ptlo> Pygi: why would you want the bot on #ubuntu-hr?
[03:01] <pitti> Kamion, mvo, seb128, jbailey, doko, Mithrandir: shall we start? in #u-m?
[03:01] <doko> yes
[03:02] <mvo> pitti: ?
[03:07] <infinity> ogra : ping.
[03:07] <ogra> infinity, pong
[03:07] <infinity> ogra : Not to be a dick, but how can you "fix orig.tar.gz differences with Debian" when you can't upload a new upstream version (hence, no new orig)?
[03:09] <ogra> infinity, i used the debian source ... but apparently they use kino-0.8.0 as source dir, i packaged the orig.tar.gz with a kino-0.80 source dir... so while the contents are identical, the md5sum differs :/
[03:09] <infinity> ogra : Yes, but you can't fix that in an upload is what I'm saying.
[03:09] <infinity> ogra : Cause you can't re-upload a new orig.tar.gz.
[03:10] <infinity> ogra : (overwriting files in the archive isn't allowed, for reasons that would be obvious if you thought for a bit)
[03:10] <ogra> so what should i write in such a case in the changelog ?
[03:10] <infinity> ogra : Erm.  Well, what did the upload change?
[03:11] <ogra> see the rejected 1ubuntu1 ...
[03:11] <infinity> ogra : The changelog made it sound like you replaced the orig.tar.gz with another.  Which is impossible, so obviously you did something else.
[03:11] <ogra> i packaged 0.80 ahead of debian ...
[03:11] <infinity> ogra : No one sees rejects except for you and the ftpmaster (of which I'm not one)
[03:12] <ogra> now they have 0.80 and i wanted to merge, but had a md5 mistmatch for the orig.tar.gz, since we use different dir names ..
[03:12] <infinity> Yes...
[03:12] <ogra> (inside the orig.tar.gz they use 0.8.0 and i use 0.80)
[03:12] <infinity> Yes, I caught that.
[03:13] <ogra> so i took their diff and used our orig.tar.gz, since the contents are identical ...
[03:13] <infinity> Ahh.
[03:13] <infinity> If the changelog said that, I'd not be talking to you right now. :)
[03:14] <ogra> thats what i mean with this sentence ... my last upload of he plain debian package with ripped out avcodec dep was rejected
[03:14] <infinity> "Apply the Debian diff for 0.80-1 to our orig.tar.gz.  Other than the differeing orig tarballs, the packages are now identical"
[03:14] <seb128> pitti: start what?
[03:14] <pitti> seb128: oh, were you interested in the locales discussion? I thought you were
[03:14] <pitti> seb128: #u-m
[03:14] <infinity> ogra : Or sometihng along those lines.  Anyhow.  Carry on.  I was giving you crap for trying to do something you weren't trying to do, rather tha ngiving you crap for a misleading changelog entry. :)
[03:14] <ogra> infinity, ok, i thught the entry would be sufficient ... will do better next time i'm caught by such a case ;)
[03:14] <zul> heylo
[03:15] <seb128> pitti: I am but I didn't read about this meeting
[03:16] <seb128> pitti: I was out for some shopping, just went back
[03:19] <seb128> pitti: is there an agenda/purpose of the meeting somewhere? just to catch up :)
[03:20] <pitti> seb128: just look in the last 20 mins of Fabio's log
[03:20] <pitti> seb128: we'll probably centralize locales again
[03:20] <seb128> k
[04:07] <jsgotangco> hmm who maintains dbus?
[04:08] <seb128> daniels/pitti/mvo
[04:08] <jsgotangco> right thanks seb128
[04:08] <seb128> np
[04:08] <pitti> mvo fights with 0.60 atm
[04:09] <seb128> jbailey: could you fix http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=260173 ?
[04:09] <jsgotangco> ahhh i was just talking to J5 a few minutes ago and reading over their stuff
[04:09] <seb128> about what?
[04:09] <jsgotangco> they're cleaning up documentation at the moment
[04:09] <seb128> yeah, I've read that
[04:10] <jbailey> seb128: Can you just NMU it please?  The fix looks correct.
[04:10] <seb128> jbailey: sure, will do
[04:10] <seb128> thanks
[04:10] <jbailey> seb128: Thanks.
[04:12] <maswan> btw, power outages suck.
[04:34] <mvo> jsgotangco: I'm on dbus 0.60 atm. it is blocked by mono currently
[04:34] <jsgotangco> mvo, blocked?
[04:35] <mvo> jsgotangco: fails to build from source right now
[05:30] <Riddell> seb128: what's the plan for applications.menu in dapper?
[05:31] <seb128> Riddell: no plan, why?
[05:31] <Riddell> seb128: I see that debian has moved it to gnome-applications.menu but I don't think ubuntu hsas
[05:31] <Riddell> has
[05:31] <doko> seb128: did you talk with Diziet about the firefox-dev / libnspr-dev split / move to /usr/include/mozilla?
[05:32] <mvo> doko: I think dholbach is working on this
[05:32] <seb128> doko: nop, dholbach is on it
[05:34] <doko> seb128, dholbach: so the proper fix should be to remove the firefox-n*.pc files
[05:35] <dholbach> doko: firefox-n*.pc files? why that?
[05:36] <doko> dholbach: because they are lying
[05:36] <dholbach> doko: i'm just making the last upload build on all archs again and place symlinks to includes - his last upload (which only built on i386) changed stuff in the .pc files - he's not removing them
[05:37] <dholbach> doko: devhelp and totem build nicely again afterwards - but i leave the proper fix to Ian - i'm no firefox expert
[05:38] <doko> the problem is: when you install firefox-dev, the firefox-n*.pc point to libs and headers which do no exist. we already had this dicussion for breezy, but apparently gnome so broken that seb128 didn't want a fix ...
[05:39] <dholbach> the split happened in said last upload
[05:40] <seb128> GNOME is not broken
[05:40] <seb128> and they don't point to non existant file
[05:40] <seb128> that's just a fud
[05:41] <doko> seb128: please recall our last discussion. it's not fud. I'll wait on dholbach's fixed packages however
[05:43] <seb128> I recall the discussion
[05:44] <seb128> you were the only one standing on your opinion
[05:44] <seb128> pitti, me (dunno who else was discussing) was agreeing it was not perfect but not that buggy neither
[05:45] <doko> seb128: dude, I gave you a concrete example what is broken. your *only* argument to that was "but the only way gnome works"
[05:47] <seb128> we didn't agree previous time, I don't intend to speak about it again for hours, the issue was to have 2 version of libnspr that's all
[05:47] <seb128> there is nothing broken
[05:49] <doko> seb128: a call a .pc file pointing to nonexisting file broken
[05:49] <doko> s/file/files/
[05:50] <seb128> doko: there is no such .pc file
[05:51] <doko> seb128: what do you want to bet on?
[05:52] <seb128> doko: with the current firefox split done wrong? nothing
[05:54] <doko> seb128: you're still wrong, and don't understand, why you are ignorant on that.
[05:54] <doko> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/firefox-nspr.pc
[05:54] <doko> Cflags: -I/usr/include/mozilla-firefox/nspr
[05:54] <seb128> right I'm stupid
[05:54] <seb128> you should stop speaking to me
[05:54] <doko> that directory doesn't exist
[05:54] <seb128> $ ls /usr/include/mozilla-firefox | wc -l
[05:54] <seb128> 340
[05:55] <seb128> oh
[05:55] <seb128> that's the split
[05:55] <doko> no, /usr/include/mozilla-firefox/nspr
[05:55] <doko> that was before and after the split
[05:56] <seb128> $ dpkg -L firefox-dev | grep nspr
[05:56] <seb128> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/firefox-nspr.pc
[05:56] <seb128> /usr/include/mozilla-firefox/nspr
[05:56] <seb128> /usr/include/mozilla-firefox/nspr/nspr.h
[05:56] <seb128> ...
[05:56] <seb128> $ ls /usr/include/mozilla-firefox/nspr | wc -l
[05:56] <seb128> 52
[05:56] <seb128>
[05:56] <seb128> that's before the split
[05:56] <seb128> right
[05:56] <seb128> what the matter with you?
[06:00] <doko> sorry, apparently that's the empty /usr/lib/pkgconfig/firefox-nss.pc (before the split)
[06:02] <doko> seb128: ^^^
[06:02] <seb128> that's bugged
[06:03] <seb128> but epiphany-browser doesn't use nss.pc
[06:03] <seb128> it uses nspr.pc
[06:03] <dholbach> i uploaded my dirty fix now
[06:03] <dholbach> totem and devhelp are happy now and i placed symlinks, which is not a proper fix
[06:04] <dholbach> i hope diziet will bring a new world order and peace next year :)
[06:06] <doko> dholbach: symlinks to directories?
[06:06] <dholbach> yes
[06:06] <seb128> doko: so firefix is bugged on that, I still fail to see why GNOME apps are bugged?
[06:06] <seb128> doko: firefox-dev should change its .pc or ship the header for nss too
[06:07] <doko> seb128: I don't know, but apparently you did revert my last change to firefox, so you should know
[06:07] <doko> dholbach: so you manually remove the directories in the preinst?
[06:07] <dholbach> no
[06:07] <dholbach> what should i remove?
[06:08] <seb128> doko: you changed the nspr stuff which is not bugged IIRC
[06:08] <doko> dpkg doesn't replace symlinks with directories and vice versa.
[06:08] <doko> so you end up with an empty directory.
[06:08] <doko> on upgrade
[06:09] <dholbach> diziet's last upload installed stuff to /usr/include/mozilla which should have been in /usr/include/mozilla-firefox
[06:09] <dholbach> the nspr/ headers
[06:10] <doko> dholbach: correct, so /usr/include/mozilla/nspr will be an empty directory after an upgrade
[06:10] <Kamion> conversely, if you've installed a symlink and later we decide that it should become a directory, making the world right will involve nasty preinst trickery
[06:10] <Kamion> s/will/will also/
[06:11] <dholbach> that's a problem then :(
[06:11] <Kamion> it occurred to me earlier but I assumed you knew; sorry, should've mentioned it then
[06:12] <dholbach> in a conversation, adam and i agreed on doing this quick fix to make stuff build again
[06:13] <doko> if [-d /usr/include/mozilla/nspr ]  && [ ! -h /usr/include/mozilla/nspr ] ; then
[06:13] <doko>   rm -rf /usr/include/mozilla/nspr
[06:13] <doko>   ln -s ../mozilla-firefox/nspr /usr/include/mozilla/nspr
[06:13] <doko> fi
[06:13] <doko> something like that should work in the preinst
[06:14] <dholbach> i'll write Ian a mail and tell him, what I did.
[06:14] <doko> dholbach: and firefox-dev should depend on libnss-dev and libnspr-dev
[06:14] <dholbach> doko: it does now
[06:15] <doko> dholbach: he's on vacation, isnt't he?
[06:15] <dholbach> thanks for the heads-up
[06:15] <dholbach> doko: yes, but i'm not happy to meddle with firefox, so he should know best, what and how to do it. as i said: i wanted stuff to build again - the new world order is his job. :-)
[06:22] <seb128> dholbach: he said to revert to the previous versionned if that was too messed no?
[06:23] <dholbach> seb128: dunno, did he?
[06:24] <seb128> "If there is a problem and I'm gone, please feel free to revert my
[06:24] <seb128> change by making a firefox 1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg-1ubuntu6 which is
[06:24] <seb128> identical to 1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg-1ubuntu4.  I have a copy of my diffs,
[06:24] <seb128> and there are no other changes in ubuntu5."
[06:24] <seb128> "	Re: firefox/mozilla/libnspr packaging change" mail on the list
[06:25] <dholbach> let's see how this works out, we can still revert then
[06:25] <seb128> better to fix it if you can though
[06:27] <mdke_> has anyone decided on a time for the CC meeting tomorrow?
[06:37] <mdke_> Kamion, elmo, mako? ^^
[06:39] <Kamion> mdke_: no, not yet
[06:39] <mdke_> ok thanks
[06:39] <Kamion> sorry, have had a stinking cold all day and not really feeling up to chasing people down
[06:40] <mdke_> fair enough, hope you shake it off soon
[06:42] <ogra> Kamion, probably something to hand over to the CC secretary ;)
[06:43] <mdke_> there's a secretary?
[06:43] <mdke_> must be seveas
[06:43] <ogra> mdke_, just joking, but i thought of Seveas
[06:43] <mdke_> :)
[07:36] <slomo_> jbailey: ping?
[07:41] <jbailey> slomo_: Pong
[07:43] <slomo_> jbailey: just a short question or better two ;) the ppc buildds are ppc64 afaik... is it possible that something breaks (i.e. segfaults) on ppc64 running as 32bit binary but not on a normal ppc? and mvo told me you have access to a ppc64, could you test something for me?
[07:44] <jbailey> slomo_: It's possible, yes.  Whenever you have a kernel emulating a different userspace, it has to have a set of thunks to make the non-native space work.  There's always room for bugs in there.
[07:44] <jbailey> And depending on what it is that you want tested, yes I can.
[07:45] <slomo_> jbailey: can you compile mono (as in 1.1.11-0ubuntuX) in a dapper chroot there and report me if it works fine or segfaults somewhere? it segfaults on the buildds but works on my ppc :/
[07:45] <jbailey> seb128: Around?
[08:05] <seb128> jbailey: pong
[08:06] <jbailey> Silly question for you. =) Recent releases of Aisleriot hang on my box when I try to switch games.  Is this a general problem for Aisleriot?  I don't see it in bugzilla, and if it's ppc-specific, I'll debug it later.
[08:09] <mpt> It's a conspiracy to get you back to work
[08:09] <seb128> I've not noticed any hang but I don't play a lot to card games, do you reproduce it easily? Afaik we got no bug about it, do you have a backtrace of the hang?
[08:09] <dholbach> jbailey: does it say something about sgid in the terminal?
[08:10] <jbailey> I haven't tried debugging it at all yet, just a sec.
[08:10] <jbailey> I usually try to ask you guys first when it's not in bugzilla, because sometimes you already know about it, or it's a ppc-only isssue, in which case I should just fix it. =)
[08:10] <jbailey> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x1032c660 ***
[08:11] <dholbach> jbailey: no, didnt hear of that one yet
[08:11] <jbailey> 'kay, I'll hunt it down then.
[08:12] <jbailey> dholbach: I get the sgid bug on mahjongg, but I think I saw that bug posted already.
[08:12] <mdke> jbailey, course, course. you don't use the games...
[08:13] <jbailey> mdke: Right.  Only as needed for testing.
[08:13] <dholbach> jbailey: yeah, quite a lot, upstream is figuring it out and pitti denied me to make gnome-games' /var/games/* files world-writable in the meantime :)
[08:13] <jbailey> =)
[08:13] <jbailey> dholbach: Sure.  You just need to setup FUSE to watch for writes to the world-writable directory and only allow them if they validate ;)
[08:14] <dholbach> jbailey: don't give upstream new ideas
[08:14] <jbailey> dholbach: Yes, dear.
[08:14] <dholbach> :)
[08:14] <sivang> mpt: lol
[08:14] <jbailey> Although in my defence, it's not my fault.  It's what happens when you spend years working on the Hurd.
[08:15] <sivang> jbailey: what got you working on it in the first place?
[08:15] <mdke> his wife wanted to use it
[08:16] <jbailey> sivang: My wife occasionally uses my machine.  It has a slightly nicer screen.
[08:16] <mdke> honey... can you get hurd working?
[08:16] <jbailey> Although the X hangs have discouraged her from using my machine for nethack.
[08:16] <jbailey> mdke: It's on my TODO list.  It's just under "die".
[08:16] <mdke> lol
[08:16] <mdke> relying on the afterlife eh
[08:17] <jbailey> mdke: It needs that grade of help right now. =)
[08:17] <sivang> jbailey: I asked aobut the HUrd :-=)
[08:17] <jbailey> sivang: Oh, LOL.
[08:17] <sivang> heheh, yeah that what I thought when I saw your answer :)
[08:18] <jbailey> Mmm.  It was 1996 or so, and the Hurd actually had more active development on it than Linux did at the time.
[08:18] <sivang> nothing related to the promise of microkenrnel architectures?
[08:18] <jbailey> No, althought that's certainly why I stayed interested in it.
[08:19] <sivang> (although, reading Robert Love's book - LInux claims to provide the same niceities of a microkenrel based arch, using a monolithic one)
[08:19] <jbailey> sivang: It doesn't, but that's fine.
[08:19] <jbailey> sivang: My theory is that Linux is doing the right thing.  It's slowly evolving until it turns into what the Hurd wanted to be, but tested by experience.
[08:19] <sivang> jbailey: sorry, not "Linux claims" but at least that's what RL says in the book.
[08:20] <sivang> jbailey: ah
[08:21] <jbailey> sivang: As recently as today, I managed to get a process that kill -9 wouldn't take out.  It's a pretty strong hint that we still have user applications that can permanently tie up precious kernel resources.
[08:21] <sivang> jbailey: wow
[08:22] <sivang> I did had acouple of hangups of dapper lately
[08:22] <sivang> and couldn't kill neither X or reboot, but that's probably not related..
[08:31] <jbailey> Is swf-player generally the best flash player?
[08:31] <jbailey> I wonder if we should have it in main and install it by default.
[08:32] <thesaltydog> is the "system tools" menu going to be purged in dapper?
[08:34] <floam> hasn't it already?
[08:34] <thesaltydog> dunno, I still have to install it..
[08:34] <thesaltydog> didn't upgrade yet
[08:35] <Pygi> welcome crimsun
[08:35] <mdke> thesaltydog, yeah it has gone
[08:36] <crimsun> hi Pygi
[08:36] <thesaltydog> ...
[08:36] <Pygi> what's up? ;)
[08:37] <sivang> hey Pygi
[08:37] <Pygi> hey sivang
[08:39] <Pygi> first Ubuntu school at Croatia  -- launch -- 1 month of 2006 (I hope ;) )
[08:39] <Pygi> hehe ;)
[08:41] <sivang> hmm
[08:41] <sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
[08:41] <sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libdar3c2a_2.2.4-2_i386.deb
[08:41] <sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[08:52] <exarkun> Is Python 2.2 going to be included in dapper?
[08:53] <mdke> it's there now
[08:53] <Kamion> not in main; it hasn't been in main since warty
[08:53] <Kamion> I imagine it'll stick around in universe until Debian removes it
[08:57] <lucas> is the source code of the scripts generating http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ available somewhere ?
[09:08] <jbailey> slomo_: I also get a segfault.
[09:10] <slomo_> jbailey: nice... at least it's possible now to reproduce it on something else than the buildds... can you retest on normal ppc? maybe it's only my ibook beeing confused...
[09:10] <jbailey> slomo_: In tramp.c I get a whole lot of tramp.c:312: warning: pointer targets in assignment differ in signedness
[09:10] <jbailey> slomo_: Actually.  Can you email me your .build log?
[09:10] <jbailey> I cn quickly compare it.
[09:10] <slomo_> jbailey: sure... just need to rebuild it as i haven't saved it
[09:10] <jbailey> I'm also running out pretty soon, so to look at it more, I'll need to do so in a couple days.
[09:10] <jbailey> I'm a bit behind on a couple other tasks.
[09:11] <zul> slacker..
[09:12] <Loiosh> Heh
[09:12] <slomo_> jbailey: np... i'll send it to you via mail... just look at it when you have some time :) we really need to get this running again ;)
[09:14] <slomo_> jbailey: but it would also help when you could run it somehow in gdb for getting a better backtrace... upstream asks for it :/
[09:16] <jbailey> 'kay.  I'll need to work with someone for that.  I've never run a mono app before.
[09:19] <dholbach> have a nice evening, i'm off :)
[09:23] <slomo_> jbailey: hmm, can you give me ssh access there? no root access needed... only the b-d need to be installed
[09:23] <jbailey> slomo_: No, sorry.
[09:24] <jbailey> slomo_: I haven't made any real effort to secure this machine beyond the basics.
[09:25] <slomo_> jbailey: ok, np :) have fun
[09:27] <janimo> Kamion, do derivatives need to provide gfxboot themes in separate packages as with usplash?
[09:27] <Kamion> janimo: no
[09:28] <Kamion> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is designed to handle derivatives with the only branding changes required being in debian-cd
[09:28] <Treenaks> Kamion: do you have any clue on "my" bug yet?
[09:28] <Kamion> and all that does is stick a splash.pcx image in /isolinux/ on the CD
[09:28] <Kamion> Treenaks: I think I already said I'd "fix" it by killing the timeout clock
[09:29] <Treenaks> Kamion: oh ok :)
[09:29] <janimo> Kamion, great
[09:29] <Kamion> but I tried to do that this morning and it was less trivial than you might imagine; I'll give it another go later
[09:29] <Treenaks> Kamion: I saw a few uploads like that today -- does that mean it will be fixed in tomorrow's daily?
[09:29] <Kamion> Treenaks: no
[09:29] <Treenaks> hmm ok :)
[09:29] <Kamion> as I say, I tried, but the initial approach I took produced a lot of screen flicker as the timeout fired
[09:30] <Kamion> I'll try a slightly different approach next time which updates less of the screen each time
[09:30] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok
[09:30] <Treenaks> (I really want to test the new ati driver ... but I don't want to hose my breezy install :))
[09:31] <Kamion> still don't know why it really occurs, which disturbs me slightly, but hey
[09:31] <Loiosh> ati driver? fglrx?
[09:31] <Kamion> Treenaks: hold down shift during boot and you can choose to bypass gfxboot
[09:31] <Treenaks> Kamion: if I can do anything more to debug.. I've seen  the display switch from 1 error to another
[09:31] <Treenaks> Loiosh: no, ati
[09:31] <Treenaks> Loiosh: fglrx already works. ati never has on this machine
[09:32] <Loiosh> Ahhh
[09:32] <Kamion> unfortunately I think it's going to be too tedious - if I actually had the laptop in front of me, I might be able to do more, but it'd be really hard work to teleoperate somebody else
[09:32] <Loiosh> I had to use fgl becaue my x600 wasn't supported yet in ati.
[09:32] <Treenaks> Loiosh: X700 here
[09:32] <Loiosh> So they have X--- support in ati now? =)
[09:32] <Treenaks> Kamion: hm ok.. would a shot of the other error screen help?
[09:33] <Treenaks> Kamion: (different numbers in the trace box)
[09:33] <Kamion> Treenaks: sure, would do no harm I guess
[09:33] <Kamion> when did it occur?
[09:33] <Treenaks> Kamion: uh, that appeared automatically
[09:33] <Treenaks> Kamion: another one pops up when pressing a key
[09:33] <Treenaks> Kamion: brb
[09:34] <Kamion> you mean pressing a key at the trace box?
[09:34] <Kamion> Treenaks: come back :)
[09:34] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok :)
[09:34] <Kamion> Treenaks: if you press a key at the trace box, it single-steps
[09:34] <Kamion> so no, the next one wouldn't be useful
[09:34] <Treenaks> Kamion: If I boot from the CD, and wait for a bit, the trace box pops up; if I press a key before the trace box pops up, I get another error
[09:35] <Treenaks> Kamion: hm if it single-steps
[09:35] <Treenaks> I might have sent you a wrong screenshot... sorry
[09:35] <Treenaks> Kamion: so I'm going to check
[09:36] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[09:36] <Kamion> yes, I'd need the first trace that appears
[09:42] <Treenaks> Kamion: OK, I can make the timer tick... slowly.. if I single-step slowly
[09:42] <Treenaks> Kamion: but if I single-step faster than the timer would tick (once every second?), I get the 'Booting from harddisk' + error message
[09:42] <Treenaks> Kamion: I have a few images, uploading now
[09:44] <janimo> lamount, around?
[09:44] <janimo> any idea why xubuntu-default-settings is given back (both 386 and amd64)
[09:46] <ogra> the i386 buildd had an outage yesterday ...dunno about amd64, but it might be caused by it ...
[09:47] <janimo> ogra, thanks I'll wait till tomorrow then
[09:49] <Kamion> Treenaks: I'm not really bothered about breakage after the first backtrace; by that point the stack state is broken and it's a complete waste of time trying to debug anything that happens later
[09:50] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok
[09:50] <Treenaks> Kamion: I'll just attach the first trace
[09:50] <Kamion> thanks
[09:51] <Treenaks> Kamion: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=5413
[09:51] <ogra> wheee
[09:51] <ogra> firefox ftbfs on amd64 ...
[09:52] <Treenaks> ogra: ouch
[09:52] <ogra> yup
[09:52] <Treenaks> ogra: but, I'm an amd64/dapper/pentium-d tester now ;)
[09:53] <Treenaks> ogra: (I run it on my l33t dell box at work)
[09:53] <ogra> and it looks evil ...
[09:53] <Loiosh> Ahh
[09:53] <Loiosh> Fails to build from source.
[09:53] <ogra> ldd segfaulting sounds not nice ...
[09:56] <Treenaks> ogra: ouch
[09:57] <Kamion> Treenaks: righto, same place, same IP, so I'll stay with my current place
[09:57] <Kamion> er, current plan
[09:58] <Kamion> thanks for rechecking
[09:58] <Treenaks> Kamion: I have an isolinux error too
[09:58] <Treenaks> in some l33t font :)
[09:59] <Kamion> did you buy this laptop specially with a "hi, I have a broken BIOS" label on it? :P
[09:59] <Loiosh> Heheheh
[09:59] <Treenaks> Kamion: no, it just arrived in a box one day, after mailing with claire for a bit ;)
[10:05] <ogra> so you asked claire for the most broken one ?
[10:08] <Treenaks> ogra: no... that was \sh
[10:08] <ogra> heh
[10:09] <ogra> but his is cool :)
[10:09] <ogra> yours seems just broken ...
[10:09] <Treenaks> ogra: mine has a leet screen res.
[10:11] <jdong> so mako goes to MIT right?
[10:11] <mvo> he already is AFAIK
[10:11] <jdong> cool....
[10:13] <jdong> are there any other devs in the area?
[10:13] <exarkun> mako's hostmask is hampshire.edu, though
[10:13] <exarkun> hampshire's in western MA
[10:14] <jdong> hmm
[10:14] <jdong> I vaguely recall someone telling me that mako's in MIT
[10:14] <Mithrandir> jdong: he is.
[10:16] <daniels> mako's at the mit media lab
[10:23] <lunitik> I don't suppose anyone is working on getting gaim 2.0b1 uploaded to dapper?  :D
[10:25] <jdong> talk about impatience :)
[10:25] <jdong> gaim 2.0 ain't spectacular....
[10:27] <jordi> jdong: is it out?
[10:28] <jdong> jordi: I meant the beta
[10:28] <seb128> lunitik: uploading something that will probably destroy users' config? no
[10:29] <seb128> we have enough bugs without that
[10:29] <jdong> seb128: gaim 2 beta does have its way with eating profiles for breakfast
[10:30] <lunitik> seb128: I just had it installed, but apparently I'm too dumb to get SSL (and thus MSN) working  :(
[10:30] <seb128> that's what you get by beeing too impatient
[10:30] <lunitik> seb128: It maintained a lot of settings, although some did go bye bye...
[10:30] <seb128> gaim 1.5 works fine enough to use it a few extra days no?
[10:30] <lunitik> seb128: I like playing with new things... its a disease
[10:31] <jdong> lunitik: that's why you compile it yourself :)
[10:31] <lunitik> seb128: I guess... gaim 2.0 brings a lot of niceties, and cleans things up a lot though  :(
[10:31] <jordi> that gaim 2.0 screenshot looks exactly the same to me, a non-user
[10:31] <lunitik> jdong: I just did... see above
[10:31] <seb128> gaim 2.0 will be packaged no doubt
[10:31] <seb128> but when upstream write on their website it may destroy users config
[10:32] <jdong> jordi: no, no, everything takes up MUCH more room than before, and there's a smooth scroll effect for new messages :)
[10:32] <seb128> no thanks, they can keep it
[10:32] <jordi> jdong: *oooooooooooh*
[10:32] <jdong> there's also a degree of instability, ESPECIALLY with the plugins (even bundled ones)
[10:32] <lunitik> jordi: prefs, contact list at the bottem, menu system, little features like doodle and stealth in yahoo (stealth is rather nice), nudges in MSN
[10:33] <lunitik> jordi: things that I get bitched at a lot for not being able to do  :'(
[10:34] <seb128> I don't understand half of the feature you are mentionning
[10:34] <lunitik> jordi: jdong: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/ChangeLog  <-- hardly minor things... hence 2.0
[10:34] <jordi> seb128: same here :P
[10:35] <seb128> :)
[10:35] <jdong> lunitik: not a convincing or significant list
[10:35] <jdong> and I still find it insulting how they're removing more and more options
[10:35] <lunitik> seb128: doodle allows you to draw things for the person you're chatting to, stealth allows you to appear offline to some people, nudge and buzz allow you to get the contacts attention....
[10:35] <lunitik> jdong: blame the HIG imo... although most I don't play with...
[10:36] <lunitik> In fact, most things I configure, they are making the default action...
[10:36] <seb128> drawing can be nice
[10:36] <lunitik> So it kinda works out  :P
[10:36] <lunitik> seb128: it can be fun if you're bored  :)
[10:36] <seb128> stealth seems to be the equivalent of ICQ invisible list
[10:37] <lunitik> seb128: perhaps... I don't mess with ICQ much... its per contact though, not as per a list...
[10:37] <seb128> getting attention ... I've already an effect on the window list
[10:37] <seb128> ICQ stuff is by contact
[10:37] <lunitik> seb128: not your attention... their attention  ;)
[10:38] <seb128> you can have a list of people for who you are offline all the time, online all the time, etc
[10:38] <lunitik> seb128: on the actual clients, it shakes the screen  ;)
[10:38] <seb128> the attention of somebody who receive the message?
[10:38] <seb128> or that's just an action?
[10:38] <lunitik> Luckily, all we get is "you have been nudged"
[10:38] <lunitik> seb128: the attention of the other person...
[10:38] <seb128> like if jordi wants to annoy me he can do annoy stuff every 5s?
[10:39] <seb128> annoying stuff
[10:39] <jdub> Kamion: + * ttf-dejavu
[10:39] <ogra> quicker with a script ;)
[10:39] <lunitik> seb128: well, no... he has to hit "nudge" contact... so its as fast as he wants
[10:39] <seb128> right
[10:39] <seb128> that's like the worst idea ever
[10:39] <lunitik> seb128: you'd be surprised how popular it is...
[10:39] <seb128> somebody from your list can poke you as much as he wants so?
[10:40] <seb128> I don't doubt of that
[10:40] <lunitik> seb128: yup
[10:40] <seb128> I'm just not that kind of user :p
[10:40] <seb128> I write with full words most of the time too
[10:41] <seb128> what I expect from an IM is to send/receive messages and to not make fuss about them while I'm working
[10:41] <lunitik> seb128: haha... me too most of the time... but still... having a full like 10 minute discussion about why I can't do it isn't pleasant either  :(
[10:41] <seb128> just the effect on the windows list is fine
[10:42] <jordi> cinema time
[10:42] <jordi> laters
[10:42] <seb128> jordi: what movie?
[10:42] <ogra> jordi, have fun :)
[10:42] <Loiosh> King Kong!!
[10:42] <jordi> Match Point, in English.
[10:42] <jordi> no way.
[10:42] <mdke> the penguin film!
[10:42] <jordi> Woody Allen is a lot more interesting. :)
[10:42] <mdke> it's all about penguins
[10:42] <jordi> mdke: I hate that linux icon :)
[10:42] <ogra> jordi, cool, match point !
[10:43] <mdke> bah
[10:43] <jordi> ogra: is it?
[10:43] <ogra> dunno, i saw some previews on TV
[10:43] <jordi> oh
[10:43] <jordi> gotta go
[10:43] <ogra> enjoy
[11:08] <mdke> Kamion, still around?
[11:51] <crispin> daniels: ping ?
[11:55] <daniels> crispin: ?
[11:56] <crispin> daniels: could you just have a quick look at bug 20414 and see if you need anymore info from gdb ?
[11:56] <crispin> (this is an X crash without the -nolistentcp option)
[11:57] <sivang> night all
[11:58] <daniels> aha
[11:58] <daniels> crispin: yeah, that's nailed it
[11:58] <daniels> crispin: cheers :)
[11:58] <crispin> np, I realised my original report was pretty useless :-)
[12:00] <daniels> heh