[08:24] <sebsebseb>
[10:05] <mzuverink> MOTD
[10:12] <Fikret_TR> Hello I'm a bit late
[10:15] <Fikret_TR> When will start "Ubuntu in Education" topic
[10:15] <Raj> hello everyone
[10:17] <nigelb> Hi, this is the classroom channel.  THere are no sessions now.  Please see topic for schedule.  Open week sessions start in ~5 hours
[10:18] <Fikret_TR> When will start "ubuntu in education" topic
[10:20] <nigelb> Fikret_TR: Hi, this is the classroom channel.  THere are no sessions now.  Please see topic for schedule.  Open week sessions start in ~5 hours
[10:21] <Fikret_TR> Nigelb: Thanks. I see. 5 hour later start
[10:23] <nigelb> More like 4.5 hours now
[12:15] <stnv> where can I check logs of the channel from the past  ?
[12:16] <head_victim> stnv: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom#Logs/Transcripts
[12:16] <stnv> thanks
[12:17] <head_victim> No worries
[14:55] <jcastro> 5 minutes until Ask Mark!
[14:56] <sebsebseb> jcastro: yeah
[14:56] <sebsebseb> yep
[14:57] <ssj6akshat> sooo excited
[14:57] <thiebaude> i cant wait,lol
[14:58] <jcastro> In the meantime, feast on this: http://blog.canonical.com/?p=446
[14:58] <sebsebseb> jcastro: without just going on the link, whats that about?
[14:59] <jcastro> :)
[14:59] <jcastro> ok some quick ground rules
[14:59] <jcastro> I'll be handling the questions
[14:59] <jcastro> as you can expect, this gets a little busy
[14:59] <jcastro> so if your question is easily googleable "ie. what year did you go into space?" then I'll skip it
[15:00] <jcastro> if the information is easily googleable in existing ubuntu things I'll skip it "How do I set up dns?"
[15:00] <jcastro> other than that, remember we have one hour, and a bunch of people asking, so please try to make each one a good question!
[15:01] <jcastro> logs of past Ask Marks are in the link in the topic
[15:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[15:01] <jcastro> sabdfl: Welcome, please introduce yourself!
[15:01] <jcastro> and then we'll begin!
[15:02] <sabdfl> hi all!
[15:02] <sabdfl> very glad to be here
[15:02] <sabdfl> looking fwd to your questions
[15:02] <jcastro> sabdfl: people are already wondering about http://blog.canonical.com/?p=446
[15:02] <sabdfl> congrats and thanks to everyone who helped build 10.10, it was a tight but very well-run cycle
[15:02] <jcastro> if you want to kick it off talking about unity and utouch I think that would be a nice way to start things
[15:02] <sabdfl> okdokey
[15:03] <sabdfl> 2 years ago we had a flood of PC manufacturers wanting us to help them build their own OS's
[15:03] <sabdfl> everyone wanted a Linux
[15:03] <sabdfl> and they wanted them all to be different
[15:03] <sabdfl> and they wanted them all to be built on the core of Ubuntu
[15:03] <sabdfl> we did engage with some of them
[15:03] <sabdfl> but we saw that world graudally fragmenting, and that path wasn't going to make linux a world class, strong competitor
[15:03] <sabdfl> to the established proprietary platforms
[15:04] <sabdfl> so we decided to put all of our own effort into a focused designed and engineered UI for netbooks
[15:04] <sabdfl> that started with UNR
[15:04] <sabdfl> which evolved (with a clean sheet at one point) into Unity
[15:05] <sabdfl> it's come together quite well for 10.10, we didn't get it all done as we hoped and there are issues on certain hardware
[15:05] <sabdfl> but feedback is generally that people love the design and direction
[15:05] <sabdfl> want bugs fixed
[15:05] <sabdfl> and want it to work on all the hardware possible
[15:05] <sabdfl> so, that will be our focus in 11.04
[15:05] <sabdfl> also
[15:06] <sabdfl> we're starting to see a new generation of mouse, essentially, that brings touch to netbooks too
[15:06] <sabdfl> there wasn't any great open source touch framework anywhere
[15:06] <sabdfl> and we have a view on touch beyond basic touch, towards "gesture languages"
[15:06] <sabdfl> which nobody else was really tackling
[15:06] <sabdfl> so
[15:06] <sabdfl> uTouch
[15:06] <sabdfl> the beginnings of that are in 10.10
[15:07] <sabdfl> it will evolve for 11.04, and it will get easier to integrate with normal apps
[15:07] <sabdfl> so, you should be zooming and scrolling with touch in 11.04 all over the place
[15:07] <sabdfl> we'll also integrate window management and touch
[15:07] <sabdfl> which is pretty slick to see in action
[15:07] <sabdfl> the video gives you a taste
[15:07] <sabdfl> how's that for an intro?
[15:07] <jcastro> Great, on with the questions
[15:07] <ClassBot> autif1 asked: What is the future of my favorite OS with embedded devices? Specifically - the guru plug and the sheeva plug - these are ARM based computers.
[15:08] <sabdfl> ARM is now a fully supported architecture in Ubuntu
[15:08] <sabdfl> the ARM ecosystem is coming together in something called Linaro, and Canonical is very much part of that
[15:08] <sabdfl> Linaro is a forum to get stuff done, not a consortium or a new distro
[15:09] <sabdfl> it's where we can set a roadmap for a unified ARM kernel, and set the pace for the ARM toolchain
[15:09] <sabdfl> in 10.10, for example, the whole of Ubuntu is built with GCC that includes patches from ARM
[15:09] <sabdfl> that makes everyone's life a little better, but a little more complicated
[15:09] <sabdfl> it helps get those patches upstream faster, because they've been exercised at Ubuntu-scale
[15:09] <sabdfl> which is good
[15:10] <sabdfl> so, you can count on ARM support in 11.04 and the foreseeable future
[15:10] <sabdfl> next!
[15:10] <jcastro> !y
[15:10] <ClassBot> Pendulum asked: Today is the 41st annual World Standards Day with this year's being focused on Accessibility standards. Are there plans to improve Ubuntu's accessibility and to bring things like the Ubuntu website in line with web accessibility standards?
[15:10] <sabdfl> yes, accessibility is important, please file bugs where we let you down on that front
[15:11] <sabdfl> for 11.04, a11y is one concentrated push for the Unity team, for example
[15:11] <sabdfl> we need all the help we can get, though
[15:11] <sabdfl> there's no commercial case for it, we do it because we think it's important
[15:11] <sabdfl> commercial engagements related to it would help, and folks on the team who are interested can make a big, big difference
[15:11] <sabdfl> next!
[15:12] <ClassBot> IdleOne asked: Hey Mark! I wanted to ask about the Code of Conduct and when we will be seeing translated versions for the rest of the world to be able to read and sign in theyre own language?
[15:12] <sabdfl> good question
[15:12] <sabdfl> i don't know, but i'd like to hear flacoste's view, he leads the LP team
[15:12] <sabdfl> i suspect the main issue is prioritisation of that in LP
[15:12] <sabdfl> but LP is open source, so....
[15:12] <sabdfl> also
[15:13] <sabdfl> we should generalise that feature, so teams can have things like service level agreements and can ask people to commit to them
[15:13] <sabdfl> next!
[15:13] <ClassBot> nisshh asked: is anything further happening with 'Windicators'?
[15:13] <sabdfl> it's in the queue
[15:13] <sabdfl> just not a top priority, with everything else moving on
[15:14] <sabdfl> i'd like to see it, but i'm not going to force it when i know we have other things to juggle
[15:14] <sabdfl> we already have the AppIndicators protocol
[15:14] <sabdfl> all we need is a variant of that to associate the indicator with a window
[15:14] <sabdfl> and a plugin for (your favourite window manager) to agree to render the indicator
[15:14] <sabdfl> next!
[15:14] <ClassBot> ssj6akshat asked: Is Canonical profitable yet, or How much time more until it is?
[15:15] <sabdfl> no, and some :-)
[15:15] <sabdfl> it's important that Ubuntu have a strong commercial footing
[15:15] <sabdfl> that gives people confidence in the future of the platform
[15:15] <sabdfl> it helps build the base of investment in the distro
[15:16] <sabdfl> and Canonical is a good partner to our community, I believe, so Canonical's health is good for the community too
[15:16] <sabdfl> we chose to take on multiple things: servers, desktops, ARM
[15:16] <sabdfl> which creates contention and slows down the march to profitability
[15:16] <sabdfl> but it also makes Ubuntu more valuable as a cohesive platform
[15:17] <sabdfl> and i'm still confident we will break through on each of those fronts
[15:17] <sabdfl> next!
[15:17] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: What is Project Harmony?
[15:17] <sabdfl> Harmony is an effort to simplify the forest of contribution agreements into a few, well thought through trees
[15:18] <sabdfl> at the moment, there are literally hundreds of contribution agreements (also called copyright assignment agreements, because amongst other things, that's usually what they involve)
[15:18] <sabdfl> i believe contribution agreements are really important to stimulating a healthy ecosystem of corporate involvement in the long tail of open source
[15:19] <sabdfl> they are not important for the linux kernel, which will always be cool and sexy and in many cases mission critical for so many companies and individuals you will always have a flood of contribution
[15:19] <sabdfl> but they are important for many of the things we want to be there, in quality and to "just work"
[15:19] <sabdfl> i worry that this is badly understood by the broader community
[15:20] <sabdfl> there are some myths about open source
[15:20] <sabdfl> most of the work is done by folks who have a genuine commercial interest in seeing it done
[15:20] <sabdfl> in many cases, that interest is tangential to the ownership of the code
[15:20] <sabdfl> but in many cases, it's not
[15:21] <sabdfl> for example, compare Qt and Gtk
[15:21] <sabdfl> Qt has a contribution agreement, Gtk doesn't
[15:21] <sabdfl> for a while, back in the bubble, Sun, Red Hat, Ximian and many other companies threw money at Gtk
[15:21] <sabdfl> it grew and improved very quickly
[15:21] <sabdfl> then they lost interest, and it has stagnated
[15:21] <sabdfl> Qt was owned by Trolltech
[15:22] <sabdfl> it was open source (GPL) but because of the contribution agreement they had many options
[15:22] <sabdfl> including proprietary licensing, which is just fine with me alongside the GPL
[15:22] <sabdfl> and later, because they owned Qt completely, they were an attractive acquisition for Nokia
[15:22] <sabdfl> all in all, the Qt ecosystem benefitted
[15:22] <sabdfl> and the Gtk ecosystem hasn't
[15:22] <sabdfl> so
[15:23] <sabdfl> one of the problems with contribution agreements is that they never had a strong lead
[15:23] <sabdfl> GPL, CC both had clear leadership
[15:23] <sabdfl> and become widely adopted
[15:23] <sabdfl> we've gathered the legal counsel of lots of the top open source companies
[15:23] <sabdfl> we've looked at hundreds of contribution agreements
[15:23] <sabdfl> most, the vast majority, of them look very similar
[15:24] <sabdfl> they talk about copyright, patents, and code
[15:24] <sabdfl> but because they were all written by different lawyers who "just wanted something that works for them", they aren't general
[15:24] <sabdfl> Harmony should produce one, or two, general contribution agreements
[15:24] <sabdfl> perhaps with options, like some of the main open content / code licenses
[15:25] <sabdfl> that way, when you get to a project, if they have a "standard" agreement, you know quickly whether it's OK for you or not
[15:25] <sabdfl> i don't actually think anybody who has found a bug in X and made a patch has said "oh, I'm not going to contribute it because I believe in the GPL and they are under the MIT license"
[15:25] <sabdfl> and similarly, i think contribution is the right thing to do when you participate in a project that requests it
[15:26] <sabdfl> there are some exceptions, in the case of things like plugins which could be whole works in their own right
[15:26] <sabdfl> but if you're making a patch to someone else's codebase, and they own the whole right to that codebase
[15:26] <sabdfl> the generous, and imo right thing to do is to contribute the patch in a way which does not change their rights, or yours
[15:26] <sabdfl> which is under a contribution agreement
[15:26] <sabdfl> we've signed many of them, we have a policy that we always do
[15:27] <sabdfl> only exception ever was a weird, nasty agreement by some company i'd never heard of that said something impossible
[15:27] <sabdfl> which we declined, and i think they fixed
[15:27] <sabdfl> so that's Harmony
[15:27] <sabdfl> next!
[15:27] <ClassBot> ssj6akshat asked: What do you think about OMG! Ubuntu! ?
[15:27] <sabdfl> rocks
[15:27] <sabdfl> next!
[15:28] <ClassBot> ean5533 asked: Hardware issues aside, has the response to Unity been mostly positive? Would you choose another direction if you could go back in time?
[15:28] <sabdfl> it's been flattered, critiqued and emulated, in equal measure ;-)
[15:28] <sabdfl> all are important, i think
[15:28] <sabdfl> the flattery is nice - people like that it's clean, the pieces fit well together, layout and space are considered
[15:29] <sabdfl> the critique is a very good guide to where we need to direct effort
[15:29] <sabdfl> performance on GL
[15:29] <sabdfl> fallbaks where the hardware or drivers are not sufficient
[15:29] <sabdfl> the design decisions we made around file access need careful testing and iteration
[15:30] <sabdfl> and the emulation, well, that's the sincerest form of flattery
[15:30] <sabdfl> and perhaps it's the only way we could realistically have helped those projects which embrace our ideas, after they work
[15:30] <sabdfl> because sometimes you just can't convince folsk any other way than to Just Do It
[15:30] <sabdfl> next!
[15:30] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Will 11.04 be using Gnome 3's  Gnome Shell by default in the desktop version?
[15:31] <sabdfl> we deferred Gnome3 adoption from Maverick, and with retrospect and hindsight i'm very glad we did
[15:31] <sabdfl> we're reviewing the status now in prep for UDS
[15:32] <sabdfl> testing with users and chatting with developers
[15:32] <sabdfl> we need to settle the question before the end of UDS
[15:32] <sabdfl> next!
[15:32] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Favourite Ubuntu release before 10.04 and why?
[15:33] <sabdfl> Dapper Drake. It set our course for LTS's and being a whole platform.
[15:33] <sabdfl> next!
[15:33] <ClassBot> mobster asked: Why Kubuntu is getting less love?? For example no software center and ubuntu one?
[15:33] <sabdfl> because it would cost farmore than i can justify
[15:34] <sabdfl> i do love the kubuntu community, and spend what some would consider an unreasonable amount on doing certain things twice
[15:34] <sabdfl> there is no philanthropic benefit to having TWO free desktops out there
[15:34] <sabdfl> that won't help more folks embrace free software
[15:34] <sabdfl> neither is there much commercial benefit in having two free desktops
[15:35] <sabdfl> so, ask yourself, on what basis do you feel that we're letting you down?
[15:35] <sabdfl> on what basis do you feel you have a right to expect something else?
[15:36] <sabdfl> i admire KDE and Kubuntu, I enjoy using KDE occasionally and hanging out on #kubuntu-devel
[15:36] <sabdfl> and i like the people, except occasionally the odd super-self-interested muppet who expects me to singlehandedly make his wet dreams of technology kfuturism come true
[15:36] <sabdfl> and that's that
[15:36] <sabdfl> next!
[15:36] <ClassBot> danyR asked: About the new ubuntu iconset, any updates? I've read somewhere that some inicial sketeches were supposed to be launched, is it still planned to 11.04?
[15:37] <sabdfl> i don't think we will achieve it for 11.04, no
[15:37] <sabdfl> it's a big program
[15:37] <sabdfl> and we haven't yet started
[15:37] <sabdfl> but i know, if we don't start for 11.10 we won't finish by 12.04
[15:37] <sabdfl> and i really want it done by 12.04 LTS
[15:37] <sabdfl> next!
[15:37] <ClassBot> ssj6akshat asked: What motivated you to invest in making free software and debian user friendly?
[15:37] <sabdfl> hmm
[15:38] <sabdfl> "because the possibility was out there"
[15:38] <sabdfl> you know the answer to the question, "why do you climb dangerously high mountains"?
[15:38] <sabdfl> "because they are there"
[15:38] <sabdfl> life is something we get to use up, once and once only
[15:38] <sabdfl> we should do the boldest, scariest, most important thing with our lives that we can dream
[15:39] <sabdfl> i felt free software could be all the things we want ubuntu to be: easy to use, free of charge, sustainable, beautiful
[15:39] <sabdfl> but nobody else seemed to be interested in getting it there
[15:39] <sabdfl> and it wasn't going to happen by itself
[15:39] <sabdfl> it needed a community that was single-minded about THOSE specific goals
[15:39] <sabdfl> not the things that people seemed to care about
[15:40] <sabdfl> nothing wrong with the kernel community, or the X community, or the other distro communities
[15:40] <sabdfl> i just didn't see anybody who was caring about usability, people, beauty, quality on the desktop
[15:40] <sabdfl> if you think something is possible
[15:40] <sabdfl> and good
[15:40] <sabdfl> and you have the time and resources
[15:40] <sabdfl> and nothing more important to do
[15:40] <sabdfl> then you should do it
[15:41] <sabdfl> and thousands of people seem to agree, becuase they help build it
[15:41] <sabdfl> next!
[15:41] <ClassBot> bilalakhtar asked: Gnome Shell uses a system of notification that is somewhat similar to notify-osd. When Ubuntu would begin using gnome-shell, would you like notify-osd to be used or the notification system of gnome-shell?
[15:41] <sabdfl> notify-osd
[15:41] <sabdfl> we designed and built it in good faith
[15:41] <sabdfl> it's compatible with the freedesktop.org standards
[15:41] <sabdfl> we did it long before anybody else seemed to care about reinventing notifications
[15:42] <sabdfl> we expressed a willingness to collaborate around API's when suddenly they did
[15:42] <sabdfl> now we have good code that works, with lots of apps that use it
[15:42] <sabdfl> we'll stick to it
[15:42] <sabdfl> next!
[15:42] <ClassBot> highvoltage asked: Why did Canonical ditch the LPI, and will there be any discounts for the new training for long-time Ubuntu contributors (or ubuntu members)? Currently the server training is more than Â£1000, which is a bit steep for an individual for an online course.
[15:43] <sabdfl> highvoltage: there was little demand for individuals getting their own certification
[15:43] <sabdfl> and more for something specific to ubuntu that companies could be confident would help their sysadmin teams be productive in an environment where ubuntu was being deployed
[15:43] <sabdfl> i'd like to change the forces of gravity and economics
[15:43] <sabdfl> occasionally, we tweak their noses
[15:43] <sabdfl> but in due course they reassert themselves ;-)
[15:44] <sabdfl> next!
[15:44] <ClassBot> SergioMeneses asked: Is there an strategy from Canonical to increase local commercial presence in emerging economies (and not via partners)?
[15:44] <sabdfl> yes
[15:44] <sabdfl> we have an office in Shanghai
[15:44] <sabdfl> we have employees in India and Brazil
[15:44] <sabdfl> and South Africa is starting to embrace Ubuntu for education (highvoltage must have had something to do with that ;-))
[15:44] <sabdfl> and i believe in that mission
[15:45] <sabdfl> but we can't be everywhere, doing everything
[15:45] <sabdfl> partners are very important to us
[15:45] <sabdfl> and where we have the right partner, we are often more effective than we could reasonably expect to be doing everything ourselves
[15:45] <sabdfl> next!
[15:45] <ClassBot> helger asked: What do you think about services like Flattr? Have you considered integrating something like that into the Ubuntu Software Center?
[15:45] <sabdfl> they are very cool, and yes
[15:45] <sabdfl> next!
[15:46] <ClassBot> alecu asked: is there a plan for process isolation for apps installed from untrusted sources (ie, universe, propietary stuff from the software center)? iOS and sugar from the olpc already have something like this.
[15:46] <sabdfl> alecu: using, say, something like AppArmor?
[15:46] <sabdfl> i like the idea!
[15:46] <sabdfl> you should chat with the right folks at UDS about that, if you can come
[15:46] <sabdfl> or raise it on #ubuntu-devel
[15:46] <sabdfl> cc mdz ;-)
[15:47] <sabdfl> next!
[15:47] <sabdfl> can't be
[15:47] <ClassBot> mistrynitesh asked: what are the plans for India?
[15:47] <sabdfl> have we ...
[15:47] <sabdfl> ok
[15:47] <sabdfl> We got the new Rupee symbol in the 10.10 ttf-ubuntu-font-family package
[15:47] <jcastro> (sorry, question mix up)
[15:48] <sabdfl> first OS in the world to support it natively
[15:48] <sabdfl> high-five to sladen and DM for that
[15:48] <sabdfl> I think India has the potential to harness FLOSS in a very potent way
[15:48] <sabdfl> there is little legacy dependency
[15:48] <sabdfl> there is a substantial talent base
[15:48] <sabdfl> the only thing that is required is very directed government policy
[15:49] <sabdfl> that, however, is challenging in India
[15:49] <sabdfl> countries like Brazil might well do better: they too have been experimenting with FLOSS
[15:49] <sabdfl> and can more likely translate that thinking into concrete policy that encourages business, universities, schools and government organisations to use FLOSS
[15:50] <sabdfl> so, it's a race to see who is smarter and more organised about this
[15:50] <sabdfl> next!
[15:50] <ClassBot> danyR asked: What's the plan with indicator-network and indicator-datetime? Is natty going to be the first linux distro ever to ship without a notification area?
[15:50] <sabdfl> without a legacy systray, i hope so
[15:51] <sabdfl> we are building a new GNOME UI for connection-manager, the Intel-Nokia replacement for NetworkManager
[15:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:51] <sabdfl> we'll have to see, in the final analysis, how it pans out
[15:51] <sabdfl> but connman has many advantages in design and testability
[15:51] <sabdfl> NM has more road behind it
[15:51] <sabdfl> i use the connman bits, and they work well for me
[15:51] <sabdfl> with some exceptions
[15:51] <sabdfl> ad-hoc networks
[15:52] <sabdfl> and i haven't had much success with 3G though i believe it works for some
[15:52] <sabdfl> Google is using a derivative in ChromeOS
[15:52] <sabdfl> so, i think it will be solid
[15:52] <sabdfl> and i really like the design work MPT did on the indicator and settings, though it's taking time to implement
[15:52] <sabdfl> next!
[15:52] <ClassBot> popey asked: We often see figures for how many Ubuntu installs there are, 8 million here, 12 million there. Can you give us definitive (near enough) figures and tell us how you arrive at them? This would help dispell some naysayers who claim we're making these numbers up.
[15:53] <sabdfl> no, i have no definitive answer
[15:53] <sabdfl> there are stats
[15:53] <sabdfl> but we can make those say whatever we want
[15:53] <sabdfl> we just don't do any meaningful tracking or registration
[15:54] <sabdfl> anyway, what matters to me is that our users are delighted, whoever they are and however many there are
[15:54] <sabdfl> i do believe we have more than either of those numbers
[15:54] <sabdfl> but i don't think anybody knows for sure, except maybe google, and they haven't said
[15:54] <sabdfl> next!
[15:54] <ClassBot> TLE asked: Any plans on changing the one-cd strategy, to get room for more standard tools, like say a demon administration tool and a firewall?
[15:54] <sabdfl> no
[15:55] <sabdfl> it's a good discipline
[15:55] <sabdfl> we need to get better at helping people find things like those tools of yours, after they install
[15:55] <sabdfl> and forcing less on them up front
[15:55] <sabdfl> next!
[15:55] <ClassBot> BigWhale asked: So, we started brainstorming for Ubuntu event on Balkans in couple of years. What would it take to get you for a keynote speaker? :)
[15:55] <sabdfl> i'm a pushover, except when i'm impossible
[15:55] <sabdfl> so just ask!
[15:56] <sabdfl> if it works, i'll come along
[15:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[15:56] <sabdfl> but i bet you can get plenty of entertaining speakers without me
[15:56] <sabdfl> there are much better speakers in the ubuntu community and commercial ecosystem
[15:56] <sabdfl> i did enjoy a week in Croatia once
[15:56] <sabdfl> be nice to be back in the area
[15:56] <sabdfl> nexy!
[15:56] <sabdfl> next, even ;-)
[15:56] <jcastro> time for one more
[15:56] <jcastro> waiting for a good one
[15:56] <sabdfl> hard one
[15:56] <ClassBot> danyR asked: I've been following Ubuntu for years. I've also been following the blogosphere for years. I can say, without doubts, that Maverick is the most successful release ever. What's next?
[15:57] <sabdfl> Natty!
[15:57] <sabdfl> next!
[15:57] <jcastro> (Protip: See what's cooking here: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n)
[15:57] <ClassBot> doctormo asked: Do you consider Ubuntu to be a product of the UK?
[15:57] <sabdfl> no
[15:57] <sabdfl> Earth
[15:57] <sabdfl> barely
[15:57] <sabdfl> next!
[15:57] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: What do we do at the end of exhausting a - z for naming? ;)
[15:57] <jcastro> (this will be the last one)
[15:58] <sabdfl> cyrillic, anybody?
[15:58] <sabdfl> thanks all
[15:58] <jcastro> thanks, Mark!
[15:58] <sabdfl> great questions, appreciate the support of the team organising
[15:58] <sabdfl> you all do a wonderful job with Open Week
[15:58] <sabdfl> akgraner and many others, hugs
[15:58] <sabdfl> cheerio
[15:58] <jcastro> alright, I hope you guys are ready for xubuntu with charlie-tca
[15:59] <charlie-tca> Thank you very much for that session, sabdfl. It is always great to be able to listen to you this way.
[15:59] <jcastro> take 2 minutes, smoke if you got em!
[15:59] <sabdfl> yw, have fun here :-)
[16:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:01] <charlie-tca> Well, I must say, that is one hard session to follow. I hope I can do half as well!
[16:02] <charlie-tca> I'm Charlie Kravetz, known as charlie-tca on irc and the mailing lists. I am Xubuntu Quality Assurance Lead and Xubuntu Project Lead.
[16:02] <charlie-tca> We are going to talk a bit about Xubuntu. We will take your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and will have a few minutes at the end to answer questions you hold on to
[16:03] <charlie-tca> Feel free to ask questions at any time.
[16:03] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu is Ubuntu with the Xfce desktop. Xfce emphasizes conservation of system resources, which makes Xubuntu an excellent choice for any system, new or old.
[16:04] <charlie-tca> As a ubuntu derivative, Xubuntu maintains the same high standards and quality that Ubuntu has.
[16:04] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu is an ideal candidate for older hardware or low-end machines, thin-client networks, or those who would like to get more performance out of their hardware.
[16:04] <ClassBot> autif1 asked: Have you seen Lubuntu and what are your thoughts about it. It claims to have a smaller footprint than Xubuntu. Please comment on this aspect too.
[16:05] <charlie-tca> Thank you for asking that. I will do my best to give an honest answer.
[16:05] <charlie-tca> I do not use Lubuntu. I think I installed it once, to look, a long time ago.
[16:05] <charlie-tca> I do read the reviews and articles about all the distros, though. Lubuntu rates quite high.
[16:06] <charlie-tca> According to phoronix, who does a lot of testing, Xubuntu is about 30% lighter in resources than Ubuntu. Lubuntu is about 30% lighter than Xubuntu.
[16:07] <charlie-tca> So, based on that, yes, it has a smaller footprint.
[16:07] <charlie-tca> We will not downsize Xubuntu just to say we are smaller, or we can run older equipment than someone else.
[16:08] <charlie-tca> The target audience for Xubuntu is users who are interested in having a modestly light weight, slim, fast desktop experience.
[16:08] <charlie-tca> Those users should be able to retain the usability and functionality that is required to provide an easy to use desktop environment.
 question:so basically these OS are designed for some older hardwares?
[16:09] <charlie-tca> Lubuntu is, as I understand it, aimed at older hardware. Xubuntu is aimed at, as stated above, anyone who would like a fast desktop experience.
[16:10] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu works good on most hardware! Those with newer hardware will not see as great a difference.
[16:10] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What about Fluxbox and other lite waight window managers, use those at all?
[16:11] <charlie-tca> Okay. Let's get down to basics now. I am not going to address all the other distros today. I would really prefer to talk about Xubuntu. that is the distribution that I use. I also use Ubuntu on occasion.
[16:12] <charlie-tca> I have installed Xubuntu on my PII, 400MHz cpu with 256MB ram, and it works! I do not test all the other so-called lightweight distributions out there.
[16:13] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu is the Xfce-based distribution with a native 64-bit architecture. We produce both a 32-bit and 64-bit versions.
[16:14] <charlie-tca> And, since Xubuntu is a derivative of Ubuntu, we use the same repositories, and many of the same applications.
[16:14] <charlie-tca> Those of us on the team really believe the stated minimums should be real! If we can't run what the minimums say, we question it.
[16:14] <charlie-tca> Granted, we don't expect perfect performance from it, but the system should be usable.
[16:15] <charlie-tca> If, for example, I am running that PII, I do not expect it to run openoffice and firefox at the same time. I would expect it to run firefox with just a couple of tabs, though.
[16:15] <charlie-tca> I should be able to close firefox and run abiword and gnumeric, perhaps.
[16:15] <charlie-tca> As the hardware increases, we would expect the performance to increase.
[16:16] <charlie-tca> New users are often surprised to find that Xubuntu includes a number of gnome applications.
[16:16] <charlie-tca> These are included simply because if an application works well, and is considered lightweight, it fits.
[16:16] <charlie-tca> Any application can be included, and it does not matter if it starts with gnome, xfce, or anything other letters.
[16:16] <ClassBot> toros asked: are there any plans to support Ubuntu One in Xubuntu?
[16:17] <charlie-tca> And that brings this up! thanks, toros.
[16:18] <charlie-tca> Yes, Ubuntu One is supported using ubuntuone-client from the repositories.
[16:18] <charlie-tca> No, we do not specifically support it, but it does work with Thunar.
[16:19] <charlie-tca> Also, there is now a plugin for Exaile for UbuntuOne music
[16:19] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: For me I see Xubuntu  as basically a cut down version of Ubuntu/Gnome2, since they look quite similar, what do you think about this?
[16:19] <charlie-tca> thanks again for a great question, sebsebseb.
[16:20] <charlie-tca> Yes, they look similar, with two panels and a desktop. So does Kubuntu, with just one panel, and every other Ubuntu-based distribution I have seen.
[16:21] <charlie-tca> A desktop is a background with icons. That stays the same. The background does change, as does the functionality.
[16:21] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not specifically focus on new users or users migrating from Windows; alternative distributions such as Ubuntu may be more appropriate for first time Linux users
[16:22] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu with its Gnome desktop is very simple to use. You have limited ability to change options, and that is a good thing for some users.
[16:22] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu gives you choices.
[16:22] <charlie-tca> We do not aim at the new Windows to Linux user, (especially first time Linux users who may be particularly at risk of experiencing difficulties due to lack of general experience).
[16:23] <charlie-tca> they need that simplicity that Ubuntu offers them.
[16:23] <charlie-tca> We do think we offer the more experienced greater choices and ability to customize.
[16:24] <charlie-tca> Let me continue now, and see if I can define this better.
[16:24] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not exclusively target users with low, modest, or high powered machines but instead targets the entire spectrum with a strong focus on enabling lower end machines.
[16:25] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu's extra responsiveness and speed, among other positive traits, can be appreciated by all users regardless of their hardware.
[16:25] <charlie-tca> Are there other applications that could provide the same functionality? Most definitely.
[16:25] <charlie-tca> We are using applications that are light in resources, and relatively easy to configure for most users.
[16:26] <charlie-tca> You are welcome to use other applications if you desire.
[16:26] <charlie-tca> As a matter of fact, we do routinely check our applictions as well as others to see if they still belong in Xubuntu.
[16:26] <charlie-tca> A few of the more well known alternatives which could make the desktop a bit more lightweight are:
[16:27] <charlie-tca> and a disclaimer is needed here - Xubuntu as a team does not officially endorse any of these in particular. They are being given as examples only
[16:27] <charlie-tca> chromium - an open source browser - http://www.chromium.org/Home
[16:27] <charlie-tca> claws-mail - a very nice mail client with many options - http://www.claws-mail.org/
[16:28] <charlie-tca> gmusicbrowser - An open-source jukebox for large collections of mp3/ogg/flac/mpc/ape files, written in perl - http://gmusicbrowser.org/
[16:28] <charlie-tca> gpicviewer - A Simple and Fast Image Viewer for X - http://lxde.sourceforge.net/gpicview/
[16:28] <charlie-tca> geeqie - a lightweight Gtk+ based image viewer for Unix like operating systems. - http://geeqie.sourceforge.net/
[16:28] <charlie-tca> midori - a lightweight browser in development by Xfce. For more information see http://software.twotoasts.de/index.php?/pages/midori_summary.html
[16:28] <charlie-tca> Pino - a simple and fast X11 client for Twitter and Identi.ca - http://pino-app.appspot.com/
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Any or all of these can be installed by the user. Please check the repositories before downloading or compiling applications.
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Please note that the above applications are not presented as approved or recommended by myself or Xubuntu. There are given here as examples.
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not install these applications by default at this time. Why not?
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Since we have limited developer resources available, we use applications maintained by Ubuntu that fit our needs. The application must also have a good user GUI, if possible.
[16:29] <charlie-tca> The more complicated it is to configure the application for use, the less likely it will fit the requirement.
[16:30] <charlie-tca> Some of the above are still in development, and are not yet released as a stable version. That, too, must be considered before including the application in a stable operating system.
[16:31] <charlie-tca> We are very thankful to have the Ubuntu developers assisting us in maintaining applications. Without their help, it would be much harder to maintain Xubuntu.
[16:32] <charlie-tca> At this time, I would like to hit on some of the key points in Xubuntu 10.10, otherwise known as Maverick Meerkat.
[16:32] <charlie-tca> New Features:
[16:32] <charlie-tca> Xfce 4.6.2, which is primarily a bug-fix release.
[16:33] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu 10.10 includes the Exaile 0.3.2 music player to make enjoying podcasts, streaming radio, audio books, and music library easier than ever before.
[16:33] <charlie-tca> New to Xubuntu 10.10 is the movie player, Parole, which replaces the Totem Movie Player on the Xubuntu desktop to provide a more improved movie viewing experience.
[16:33] <charlie-tca> We have also changed from the gnome-system-monitor to xfce4-taskmanager. We believe this provides similar, excellent functionality while being lighter on resources.
[16:33] <charlie-tca> To allow for a more resource concious CD/DVD burning experience, Xfburn has replaced Brasero in Xubuntu 10.10.
[16:33] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu also includes as default gimp, an application used for advanced picture editing and retouching photos.
[16:34] <charlie-tca> This application includes a large collection of professional-level editing tools and filters, similar to what is in PhotoShop.
[16:34] <charlie-tca> Thunderbird is a lightweight mail/news/RSS client. It fits well with the fewer resources desired for Xubuntu, yet remains an easy to configure application for the new user.
[16:35] <charlie-tca> We do include the ne Ubuntu Fonts, but, they are not the default Xubuntu font.
[16:35] <charlie-tca> Any questions about Maverick?
[16:37] <charlie-tca> Where we are heading from here:
[16:37] <charlie-tca> The next release will be Natty Narwhal. Will there be major changes for Natty Narwhal? I really do not know at this time.
[16:37] <ClassBot> highvoltage asked: will there be any xubuntu related sessions at UDS?
[16:38] <charlie-tca> If there is interest in such sessions, yes. I have asked for input from the community for this.
[16:39] <charlie-tca> Will Natty see Xfce 4.8? Only time will tell. Xfce developers have not completed their work at this time, and there is not a good release date yet.
[16:39] <charlie-tca> If it is released in time, it will definitely be included in the next version of Xubuntu.
[16:39] <charlie-tca> We owe a great deal of Xubuntu's success to the Ubuntu teamwork. Without Ubuntu leading the way, Xubuntu would not be where it is today.
[16:40] <charlie-tca> We are an official unsupported derivative of Ubuntu. This means we can use the repositories and Ubuntu sources, but we receive no funding whatsoever.
[16:41] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: How much do Xubuntu developers work with upstream XFCE?
[16:43] <charlie-tca> We work very closely with upstream Xfce. We upstream most of the bugs that concern Xfce, and work with the developers to insure that they get fixed as soon as possible.
[16:44] <charlie-tca> Thanks to the efforts of Xubuntu developers, Xfce 4.8 will have XRandR 1.2 support.
[16:44] <charlie-tca> That is, the support is added to Xfce4-display-settings. This is a big step for Xfce.
[16:45] <charlie-tca> Our volunteers are very passionate about Xubuntu.
[16:45] <charlie-tca> They spend considerable time working to create the best possible Operating System they can, and the results do reflect that.
[16:45] <charlie-tca> Its helps that the Ubuntu base is so awesome to work with in the first place, too.
[16:46] <charlie-tca> I have explained what Xubuntu is, what it is designed for, and hopefully, cleared up some mis-conceptions too.
[16:47] <charlie-tca> How/Where to start with the Xubuntu Team ?
[16:47] <charlie-tca> Getting started with Xubuntu is easy and fun! For the average user, you can get help and support through either #xubuntu on Freenode or the xubuntu users mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users. We're a friendly bunch and enjoy helping folks :-)
[16:47] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu comes ready to use on any equipment. It gives excellent performance with no loss of applications.
[16:48] <charlie-tca> It would be really nice to clear up that idea that Xubuntu is "only" for old hardware. It works equally well on new hardware.
[16:48] <charlie-tca> As part of one of the best, fastest growing distributions available, we welcome anyone who would like to assist in development, testing, and bug triage!
[16:49] <charlie-tca> I see I am a few minutes early on finishing. Lets just take a small break?
[16:49] <charlie-tca> Thank you all for being here.
[16:50] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: I thought about if I should ask this or not, but decided to anyway.  Xubuntu is probably the most popular XFCE distro at the moment, but how would you feel if it suddenly became another distro that wasn't based on Ubuntu instead?
[16:50] <charlie-tca> I do not actually see that happening. However, as long as it usable as it is now, that will work.
[16:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <charlie-tca> Can it remain a functioning, easy to use operating system with a different base? Probably, but Ubuntu is the fastest growing, easiest to use Linux OS available today.
[16:52] <charlie-tca> Being a part of the Ubuntu family does help maintain momentum, and we are fortunate to be a part of that family.
[16:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[17:02] <duanedesign> hello everyone
[17:03] <duanedesign> I am going to  be giving a session on doing screencasts
[17:03] <duanedesign> Screencasts are a very useful tool for demonstrating software capabilities.
[17:04] <duanedesign> There are many different ways to make screencasts and different applications you can use. I will show you one way and  will use as many default applications as possible.
[17:04] <duanedesign> The applications you will need for making a screencast are:
[17:05] <duanedesign> VirtualBox - virtualization enviroment. package: virtualbox-ose
[17:05] <duanedesign> gtk-recordmydesktop - records desktop video/audio. packages: recordmydesktop gtk-recordmydesktop qt-recordmydesktoop
[17:05] <duanedesign> recordmydesktop being the commandline utility and gtk, for gnome, and qt-recordmydesktop, for KDE, are GUIs for that commandline utility.
[17:06] <duanedesign> audacity - recording and editing audio
[17:06] <duanedesign> openoffice.org - for titles at the beginning and end of your screencast
[17:06] <duanedesign> piTiVi = for editing video, combining audio and video and re-encoding to other formats.
[17:07] <duanedesign> I like to recommended you use a virtualization environment.
[17:07] <duanedesign> In a VM you can record your screencast from a default install. This way your custom themes, icons and setup will not confuse a user.
[17:07] <duanedesign> A VM allows you to save snapshots. This make it easy to go back to your VM setup before the demo. Ideal for rehearsing your screencast as well as making it easy to keep a standard default install.
[17:07] <duanedesign> If the intention is to demonstrate application usage and/or the host configuration is sufficiently similar to a standard install a VM is not necessary.
[17:08] <duanedesign> The first step, after installing the appropriate software, is to make an outline.
[17:09] <duanedesign> Decide exactly what it is you are wanting to show. Keep the videocasts short and focused. Cover only one topic in each videocast.
[17:09] <duanedesign> After you have an outline, you will make a script. The script will cover what you want to say and do during the screencast.
[17:11] <duanedesign> I have found the Gnome, and other style guides, help me write a script that is clear. concise and consistent. Though a lot of it is geared towards written documentation there is a lot of relevant stuff when it comes to grammar usage and terminology.
[17:11] <duanedesign> Some examples of grammar usage would be, do not superfluous adverbs like simply, easily, quickly.  Do not apply emotion, desires, or opinions.  Avoid stuff like 'This app is awesome', instead maybe 'This app has helped me ...'
[17:12] <duanedesign> Also the Style Guides help with some of the GUI terminology. Here is an example from the Gnome Style Guide showing you what different part of the windows are called.
[17:12] <duanedesign> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-style-guide/stable/preface-1.html.en
[17:13] <duanedesign> . This helps create consistency across a wide range of resources.
[17:14] <duanedesign> ensuring that we are all calling a radio button, a radio button and not confusing people
[17:14] <duanedesign> Once you get your script done, You will want to rehearse the steps you are going to take. This is a good opportunity to develop and refine your script.
[17:15] <duanedesign> To do this start a virtual machine running the operating system and application which is to be demonstrated.  Go through the software and practice the steps to be demonstrated. You might need to do this a couple of times until you are comfortable with the steps and you know the script very well.
[17:16] <duanedesign> Once you are familiar with the steps you will be taking, it is time to record the screencast.
[17:16] <duanedesign>  If the demo requires the installation of additional packages then to save time it can be preferable to setup the necessary repositories, download the necessary packages without installing them, then remove the repositories.
[17:17] <duanedesign> This of course assumes that you want to show how to enable repositories and install software within the screencast. To download packages and not install them use apt-get with the -d option: apt-get -d packagename1 packagename2 ...
[17:18] <duanedesign> Now I will go through the steps of recording the screencast.
[17:18] <duanedesign> Start a virtual machine running the operating system and application which is to be demonstrated.
[17:18] <duanedesign> Start a recording application to capture the contents of the virtual machine window.
[17:18] <duanedesign> With recordmydesktop you can control it from the GUI or the commandline.
[17:19] <duanedesign> I will mostly cover the GUI way of doing things
[17:19] <duanedesign> If you are interested in using the commandline I suggest the command 'man recordmydesktop'. Additionally you can find an example command, and one i often use, at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreenCasts/RecordMyDesktop#Command%20Line
[17:21] <duanedesign> With the GUI to record  either left-click the icon in the panel or click the record button in the main window
[17:21] <duanedesign> main window - http://recordmydesktop.sourceforge.net/rug/p1_1a.php
[17:21] <duanedesign> tray icon - http://recordmydesktop.sourceforge.net/rug/p1_1b.php
[17:22] <duanedesign> If you do not want to capture the entire desktop there are three ways of selecting the area on which you will confine the recording.
[17:22] <duanedesign> Using the preview thumbnail on the main window you can draw a window with the crosshairs. Using the “Select Window” button and then select a window on your desktop. Using the “Select Area on Screen” function accessed by right-clicking on the panel icon.
[17:22] <duanedesign> additional info on defining an area - http://recordmydesktop.sourceforge.net/rug/p1_2b.php
[17:23] <duanedesign> now you will Go through the software and execute the steps you rehearsed.
[17:23] <duanedesign> It is sometimes preferable to record the video first, and add in the audio later. If you're sufficiently able to multi task reading aloud instructions whilst doing them, then record audio and video together.
[17:24] <duanedesign> doing them seperately though has some advantages
[17:25] <duanedesign> When doing them together you have to do both parts perfect.
[17:26] <duanedesign> Now Watch the screencast to ensure all is ok.
[17:26] <duanedesign> If it  looks good add a 'intro', 'outro' slides to the start and end of the screencast.
[17:27] <duanedesign> Again there are different ways to do this. I will show you one way
[17:27] <duanedesign> Open OpenOffice Presentation. Make a slide containing the graphics and text you want. Maximise the presentation of the first (header) slide within the virtual machine. You can do this by running Slideshow -> Slideshow(f5) in OpenOfffice. Using the same process as you did for the main demo record 5-10 seconds. Repeat for the [footer] slide.
[17:29] <duanedesign> !q
[17:29] <duanedesign> msg ClassBot !q
[17:30] <duanedesign> mick_laptop asked: so recordmydesktop is what you'd recommend (from the different apps  that exist). Why would you recommend that particular one (compared to others)? i thought  that project was abandoned - but i could be wrong.
[17:31] <duanedesign> there are a lot of good apps out there for screencasts. record,ydesktop is just what i have always used.
[17:32] <duanedesign> XVidCap is another good one
[17:32] <duanedesign> i would be intrested to know if it is abandoned
[17:33] <ClassBot> mick_laptop asked: so recordmydesktop is what you'd recommend (from the different apps that exist). Why would you recommend that particular one (compared to others)? i thought that project was abandoned - but i could be wrong.
[17:33] <ClassBot> quietone asked: Should I be using virtualbox now? I don't know how. recordmydektop fails "Couldn't open PCM device hw:2,0"
[17:34] <duanedesign> ok, slowly getting classbot figured out :)
[17:34] <duanedesign> quietone change hw:2,0 too hw:0
[17:34] <duanedesign> to*
[17:37] <duanedesign> ok.
[17:38] <duanedesign> if you are recording your audio and video seperately now, after making your intro and outro slides, would be a good time to record it
[17:38] <duanedesign> audacity is what i use for that
[17:39] <duanedesign> after you got your audio you would combine the audio, video and intro/outro slides
[17:39] <duanedesign> Ubuntu now has a movie editor, Pitivi, installed by default.
[17:40] <ClassBot> mick_laptop asked: CrazyLemon asked: "i recorded a video last night about ubuntu 10.10 installation.. it was about 22min of video..and after  10min the sound went off ..any ideas/suggestions ?
[17:40] <duanedesign> hmm, not off the top of my head i wopuld not
[17:41] <duanedesign> you can get the pitivi manual here - http://www.pitivi.org/manual/
[17:42] <duanedesign> an overview of the process:
[17:42] <duanedesign> Use the Import Clips button in Pitivi to bring your screencast and the header and footer video clips you did into the project. Then you simply click on the clip thumbnails in the upper left of your screen and drag them from the Clip Library to the Timeline. Do this for each clip placing them sequentially in the timeline. When you are ready to output the video, select 'Render Project'. In the Render Project Window click 'Modify' T
[17:43] <duanedesign> Check the combined audio/video/intro/outro for errors/glitches/sync problems.
[17:43] <duanedesign> Optionally encode/compress screencast to other formats.
[17:44] <duanedesign> that is one way to do screencasts and one set of tools
[17:45] <duanedesign> as one of the questions brought up there are different apps then recordmydesktop.
[17:46] <duanedesign> kazam is one that was mentioned to me recently http://launchpad.net/kazam
[17:46] <duanedesign> i have also created a script that uses ffmpeg and parec
[17:47] <duanedesign> you can find the script and instructions and tips on how to use it on my blog http://okiebuntu.homelinux.com/blog/?p=175
[17:48] <duanedesign> if you have an interest in making screencasts we have a Screencast Team in the community
[17:48] <duanedesign> we would love to have you
[17:49] <duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/
[17:49] <duanedesign> you can also find an outline of the steps i went over here on the Screencast Team wiki
[17:49] <ClassBot> quietone asked: what is parec?
[17:50] <duanedesign> pulse audio record
[17:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:51] <duanedesign> the script also auto magically encodes the video into a couple different formats. avi, ogv, flv
[17:52] <ClassBot> alucardni asked: Can we record screencast in other languages (Spanish in my case) for the Screencast Team?
[17:52] <duanedesign> that is a great question
[17:52] <duanedesign> i am a huge fan of making resources available to as many people as possible
[17:54] <duanedesign> alucardni: if you want you can email me and we can talk more about it. Or you can find me in #ubuntu screencast
[17:54] <duanedesign> #ubuntu-screencast
[17:56] <duanedesign> but i would definetly like to see multilingual screencasts!
[17:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:56] <duanedesign> ok any last questions?
[17:56] <duanedesign> you can also find me, like i said, in #ubuntu-screencast and/or you can email me. duane design at ubuntu dot com
[17:57] <duanedesign> thank you everyone for lending me your eyeballs :)
[18:00]  * highvoltage taps mic... is this thing on?
[18:00] <highvoltage> ah, great :)
[18:00] <highvoltage> hi everyone! welcome to the Ubuntu in Education openweek session
[18:00] <highvoltage> I'll be standing in for Belinda Lopez, who you may know as "dinda" on IRC
[18:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[18:01] <highvoltage> she's out spreading the Ubuntu word to educational institutions in Malaysia
[18:02] <highvoltage> so she wasn't able to present this specific session.
[18:02] <highvoltage> So, what is Ubuntu in Education? What is Edubuntu? What's the difference and why should anyone care?
[18:03] <highvoltage> I'm going to attempt to answer these questions today, and also your answers as asked in #ubuntu-classroon-chat
[18:03] <highvoltage> I haven't prepared much for this session, so if we run out of questions we'll just finish early and have some cake and tea :)
[18:04] <highvoltage> I thought it might be a good idea to provide some background on myself and where I come from, maybe it will be easier to relate the information if I do that
[18:04] <highvoltage> a few years ago, I planned to get some old computers into schools to teach kids basic Linux administration and maybe even some python and scripting
[18:04] <highvoltage> I posted to the local linux users group and got in touch with a non-profit which was gearing up to also receive large amounts of donated computers and provide them to schools
[18:05] <highvoltage> long story short, I ended up contracting and later on working for that non-profit, and we ended up installing more than 300 computer labs in South Africa
[18:05] <highvoltage> they ran LTSP so it was quite easy and fast to set up, and also to educate teachers on how to set up everything themselves
[18:06] <highvoltage> on some special occasion days (like Youth Day in South Africa), we managed to even set up 10 computer labs in a single day
[18:06] <highvoltage> using only teachers from existing schools who decided to volunteer and help other schools, along with some other regular volunteers we had
[18:07] <highvoltage> the focus in that project was also more towards education, as in, curriculum aligned, as apposed to teaching IT skills as I originally wanted to
[18:07] <highvoltage> still, it was a great project to be involved in, and it was awesome begin able to empower people to do things for themselves.
[18:08] <highvoltage> we expanded the project later to some NGO organisations, and also 2 adult prisons
[18:08] <highvoltage> the prisons were quite interesting since in South Africa, inmates generally don't have internet access
[18:08] <highvoltage> and when they do, it's very, very limited and monitored
[18:09] <highvoltage> our solution at the time were mostly targeted at kids, so we we're a bit nervous how adults were going to respond to it
[18:10] <highvoltage> to our surprise, the custom ubuntu system we put together actually worked quite well. some of the people in the prison who couldn't read started to play the kids games, the inmates started helping each other and the literacy improved
[18:11] <highvoltage> it was quite interesting, although I moved to more commercial projects afterwards and lost touch with what was happening in those projects afterwards
[18:11] <highvoltage> today I work for a company that provides large scale Ubuntu and LTSP solutions, and quite a number of our clients are big schools.
[18:12] <highvoltage> In my experiences Ubuntu is really a great platform for schools and education. It's so much safer to use, it's less work to maintain, and it gives you a *lot* out of the box.
[18:13] <highvoltage> I also got involved in the Edubuntu project, which I'll try not to speak *too* much about, and rather leave some space for more questions.
[18:13] <highvoltage> Edubuntu maintains the educational packages in Ubuntu, and also tries to get in new packages
[18:14] <highvoltage> The Edubuntu project also puts together the Edubuntu iso disc, which is an Ubuntu system that installs the packages that the Edubuntu team is involved with
[18:14] <highvoltage> we're constantly working on improving Edubuntu, with the goal that it will be a great general all-purpose educational system for homes and classrooms alike
[18:15] <highvoltage> with the last release we made some good strides, and we plan to shake things up a bit for the next release by implementing some new things that will make it much more flexible and more suitable for more kinds of environments
[18:16] <highvoltage> I'll blabber about Edubuntu just a *bit* more :)
[18:17] <highvoltage> the project went through a bit of a dive a few releases ago where we lost most of our contributors due to some politics in the project
[18:17] <highvoltage> in the meantime we've been rebuilding the project, and basically started from scratch
[18:18] <highvoltage> edubuntu is now not about a system, about software, but about the people involved and the things that they do
[18:18] <highvoltage> that's why you'll often see us say things like "edubuntu is a group of people..." in our descriptions instead of "edubuntu is a system designed to blah blah blah"
[18:18] <highvoltage> about two months ago we launched a new Edubuntu website, it's still very much work in progress,
[18:19] <highvoltage> but the next phase it to make it a lot more personal
[18:19] <highvoltage> we want to include stories, pictures and videos of people out there who made things work and who managed to do some interesting and cool stuff with Ubuntu in education
[18:20] <highvoltage> dinda started a wiki page where schools could list their details, I'll probably be contacting some of these schools and aksing them if they'd like to share their story for out site
[18:20] <highvoltage> this list is currently at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/UbuntuSchools
[18:20] <highvoltage> also, if you're interested in the Edubuntu website, you could find it here: http://edubuntu.org/
[18:21] <highvoltage> we also started twitter, idetnica and a youtube profile with the launching of the new website
[18:21] <highvoltage> on our youtube channel we favourited some video uploads related to education and ubuntu in schools that some of you might find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/user/edubuntuproject
[18:22] <highvoltage> we'd like to expand that channel drastically over the next year or so. we'll need some help on that though :)
[18:23] <highvoltage> the edubuntu screenshots page also featues some of the educational tools available in Ubuntu, that are also shipped with the Edubuntu system
[18:23] <highvoltage> stgraber, who just joined the channel, is also involved with the edubuntu project
[18:24] <highvoltage> any questions or comments at this stage?
[18:24]  * stgraber waves
[18:25] <highvoltage> For those who asked questions, the bot didn't notify me so I'll just need a second to go sift them out :)
[18:26] <highvoltage> 13:08 < quietone> QUESTION: what is LTSP?
[18:26] <highvoltage> LTSP is short for Linux Terminal Server Project, it allows you to install Ubuntu (or Edubuntu) or pretty much any Linux distribution
[18:26] <highvoltage> on one single machine
[18:27] <highvoltage> typically a good server machine
[18:27] <highvoltage> and then you connect a series of diskless machines that boots from it over the network
[18:28] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: How much does it cost a school, on average, when you do one of these deployments?
[18:29] <highvoltage> the project that I worked on in 2003-2006 specifically did it on as much of a shoestring budget as possible
[18:29] <highvoltage> it's an extreme example, but it gives an idea of what can be done
[18:30] <highvoltage> for a typical computer lab, consisting of switch, LTSP server, 20 used computers (which we typically didn't pay for), and the cables, etc we typically had a budget of R20000
[18:30] <highvoltage> that's only about €2150
[18:30] <highvoltage> the schools would implement their own desks, etc and make sure that the classroom is ready to transform into a computer lab
[18:31] <highvoltage> and then we'd go in on a saturday with volunteers and set everything up with the teachers at the school
[18:32] <highvoltage> in general, it would cost more, but using LTSP you can really start with very little and expand from there, which is one of the reasons we work so hard to integrate it properly with edubuntu
[18:32] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: and also, how many people (both at your company and the school) are involved in the implementation?
[18:33] <highvoltage> good question. we have staff in canada, brazil and france. it differs from location to location. the current schools we work with like to be quite dependent, so we provide a lot of our services remotely
[18:34] <highvoltage> with the south african schools that was quite tough because many of the schools didn't even have an Internet connection in their labs
[18:34] <highvoltage> so remote support was often not even an option.
[18:34] <highvoltage> in Canada it's quite different though :)
[18:34] <ClassBot> helger asked: Why is Edubuntu only available on DVD? In many parts of the world it is common that computer labs at schools consist of dontated second hand computers. These computers do not have DVD players and can often not boot from USB... How can one install Edubuntu in this case?
[18:35] <highvoltage> helger: great question
[18:35] <highvoltage> the short answer: you can't
[18:35] <highvoltage> we have a problem with Edubuntu at the moment where we just install *everything* that's available
[18:36] <highvoltage> so due to a lot of the services that start up on the disc, it ends up needing 1GB of RAM to install with a full desktop install session
[18:36] <highvoltage> that's just way too much for a typical old computer
[18:36] <highvoltage> for Edubuntu 11.04, we're going to componentize it more so that you can specifically choose the software you want to install
[18:36] <highvoltage> it will require much less RAM to install and will be more suitable for older computers as well
[18:37] <highvoltage> if you have lots of old computers you probably also want to use LTSP as well
[18:38] <highvoltage> You'll find that the Edubuntu team is quite helpful, and will attempt to help a school in the support lists/channel even if they run Xubuntu or Lubuntu or one fo the Ubuntu variants aimed at smaller systems
[18:39] <highvoltage> other systems will just provide much less out of the box, and especially some systems like Lubuntu might not quite provide the level of usability that educators and students may require
[18:39] <highvoltage> as for the DVD part, we do try to keep it small
[18:39] <highvoltage> but keeping Edubuntu to once CD is extremely hard, considering that Ubuntu already has a tough time fitting on a CD, and we're adding to that
[18:40] <highvoltage> at one point, we split Edubuntu off to an add-on CD to Ubuntu
[18:40] <highvoltage> that way you had two CD's, one with the 700MB of Ubuntu that was already included in the Edubuntu disc, and the add-on disc that then contained the Edubuntu parts
[18:41] <highvoltage> even though it seemed like a great idea technically at the time
[18:41] <highvoltage> we had to deal with a lot of outrage from our users who were unhappy about it
[18:41] <highvoltage> people made it clear that what they wanted was a turn-key solution, and that we were wasting our time with the add-on Cd
[18:42] <highvoltage> we listened and merged the edubuntu-addon CD back with an Ubuntu system to provide a full Edubuntu system again
[18:42] <highvoltage> and it just grew from there
[18:42] <highvoltage> (shew long answer!)
[18:42] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Why is there not a version of Edubuntu based on KDE?
[18:42] <highvoltage> what makes you think there's not ;)
[18:43] <highvoltage> on KDE, it works more like it did with our add-on CD in the past
[18:43] <highvoltage> first, you have to install Kubuntu, and then you can install the edubuntu-desktop-kde package
[18:43] <highvoltage> we provide some instructions for this on http://edubuntu.org/download
[18:44] <highvoltage> I'm not 100% sure how well the Edubuntu KDE desktop is maintained at this point, but we certainly welcome wider testing and reporting of bugs!
[18:45] <highvoltage> as for a full-install spin with a default KDE desktop, we just don't have the resources currently to test all those builds when it comes to release milestones and releases
[18:46] <highvoltage> I'm also quite confident that the average KDE user would be skillul enough to be able to select and install packages on their system :)
[18:46] <highvoltage> I've answered quite a few Edubuntu questions
[18:46] <highvoltage> any education or school related questions out there?
[18:47] <highvoltage> I've just peeked at -chat, and regarding the earlier question about how big Edubuntu is, there is also the Qimo project that is based on Xfce. We collaborate a bit with that project as well
[18:48] <highvoltage> their website is http://www.qimo4kids.com/
[18:48] <highvoltage> qimo is targeted at kids and great if you have small kids and you want to install it on your home computer
[18:49] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: in the USA there seems to be an attitude of "Kids should only learn Windows, because that's all they'll use when they grow up".  How do you overcome that?
[18:49] <highvoltage> I *love* that question
[18:49] <highvoltage> and have come across it a lot in South Africa too
[18:50] <highvoltage> not to get too deep into politics, but in the Apartheid era in South Africa the government didn't allow some schools in certain 'black areas' at the time to offer subjects like mathematics and science, because they said that those people wouldn't be able to go to university or be able to get a good job anyway
[18:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:51] <highvoltage> it was a quite horrible system where they had to learn mundane work because "that's what they're going to be doing one day anyway"
[18:52] <highvoltage> in the same veign, I argued that teacing kids to be simple office workers just because that is what many people are likely to become is wrong
[18:52] <highvoltage> education shouldn't be about dumbing people down to the most common denominator
[18:52] <highvoltage> it should be about teaching people and helping them to reach their potential
[18:53] <highvoltage> teaching them to think in one very specific way isn't doing that. teaching them how very different systems look and work and teaching them the concepts instead is much more useful, imho
[18:54] <highvoltage> especially since technologies change a lot. in one period people might use WordStar, then WordPerfect, then MSWord for DOS 5.5, then MS Office, then OpenOffice... history has shown that things change anyway :)
[18:55] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: Do you do anything to help schools improve their curiculum for teaching about computers?
[18:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:56] <highvoltage> not currently, but I know of projects that do, one non-profit I worked with (Ikamva Youth) has put together a curriculum for their students
[18:57] <highvoltage> I haven't been following them recently so I'm unable to comment on the exact status, but I can recommend googling them :)
[18:57] <highvoltage> This is not so much a question but a comment I noticed while glancing over -chat:
[18:57] <highvoltage> 13:53 < mick_laptop> M$ gives free copies of windows and offers to help w/ elecvtricity etc for using windows
[18:57] <highvoltage> in South Africa, we had the problem of some of the labs we installed being actively removed to make space for free Windows labs
[18:58] <highvoltage> we lost some schools purely because the local organisation taht was funded by Microsoft (at least in part) provided the schools with much more than we could at the time
[18:58] <highvoltage> in the beginned it was very painful to deal with that
[18:59] <highvoltage> but after it happened with a few schools, we found a whole lot more schools who refused that offer and said that they specifically want to stay with free software and do things for themselves
[18:59] <highvoltage> it was great to see that there were so many teachers who were so passionate about it that some of them even argued it with the headmaster of the school at the risk of losing their jobs
[19:00] <ClassBot> tentwelveeight asked: Edubuntu's goal says: "Our aim is to put together a system that contains all the best free software available in education in an easy to install and maintain package. (we'll rephrase this soon and also mention our emphasis on usability...)". Why the rephrasing, and how can I get Canonical to support the "maintain" aspect by offering Landscape to schools and educational organizations for free?
[19:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[19:01] <highvoltage> tentwelveeight: heh, I meant to clean that up a bit when we launched the new website... and I guess I'm gon enow :)
[19:02] <tentwelveeight> no worries. nice job jonathan
[19:04] <sebsebseb> Oh yeah can chat in here again, well lets say it in here as well then :D  highvoltage Good session :)
[19:04] <helger> thanks highvoltage.great session :-)
[19:05] <sebsebseb> Got cut off though, but nevermind
[19:06] <mhall119> sebsebseb: the party never stops at #edubuntu ;)
[19:09] <highvoltage> :)
[19:17] <sebsebseb> highvoltage: oh you could have done some extra time here, if you really wanted to, but nevermind
[22:55] <ElvisTheKing> QUESTION: what is the best tool for development? i am new in ubuntu
[22:55] <ElvisTheKing> Kdeveloper?


[12:23] <cbx33> ogra, sorry to hear the news
[12:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:24] <cbx33> ogra, if you get a sec check out the new vnc code ;)
[12:24] <cbx33> nn
[12:24] <cbx33> I'm whacked
[12:24] <cbx33> and ill
[12:47] <xp_prg> I am trying to ssh -X into my edubuntu
[12:48] <xp_prg> when I try to run an xwindows app it says display is not set, how can this be?
[12:48] <LaserJock> xp_prg: hmm, you might have to check the sshd conf
[12:49] <xp_prg> I did, X11Fowarding is set to yes
[12:52] <LaserJock> shouldn't make a difference buy have you tried -Y
[12:54] <xp_prg> how do I try that?
[12:55] <LaserJock> instead of -X use -Y
[12:57] <xp_prg> LaserJock , I am trying to isntall vmware server, it needs the kernel /usr/src/linux/include
[12:57] <xp_prg> what is the package I need to install to get that?
[12:57] <LaserJock> I think the kernel headers
[12:57] <xp_prg> the -Y did not work
[12:58] <LaserJock> xp_prg: I think apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r` should work
[12:59] <LaserJock> to get the headers
[12:59] <xp_prg> ok trying with apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.17-10-generic
[01:00] <xp_prg> do you know what directory it puts those headers in?
[01:02] <LaserJock>  /usr/src/linux/include I think
[01:03] <xp_prg> wow the vmware script says that the include kenerl files don't match the current running os
[01:03] <xp_prg> even though it is the same
[01:03] <LaserJock> uname -r gives you 2.6.17-10-generic?
[01:04] <xp_prg> yes
[01:04] <LaserJock> hmmm, odd
[03:46] <chovy> any idea how big a drive I need (realistically) for a full install of edubuntu?
[03:47] <LaserJock> 3-5GB
[03:47] <chovy> damn
[03:47] <LaserJock> how much have you got?
[03:47] <chovy> 2gb
[03:47] <LaserJock> well, technically I think you can do it
[03:48] <chovy> heh
[03:48] <LaserJock> but there wouldn't be room for much of anything
[03:48] <chovy> yeah
[03:48] <chovy> know where to get dirt-cheap ide drives?
[03:48] <LaserJock> well, newegg.com isn't too bad
[03:49] <LaserJock> I just got a nice 160GB Seagate for about $50USD
[03:50] <chovy> heh.
[03:50] <chovy> that's like putting a ferrari engine in a gold cart
[03:51] <chovy> i'm frankensteining a computer from old parts for my wife's school librarian.
[03:51] <chovy> i'll check CL
[03:56] <dabaR> ogra: really touching story about Fred. It reminds me that my dog is disabled, and she was always runing around really hapily...
[03:59] <LaserJock> s/act
[03:59] <LaserJock> bah
[10:00] <cbx33> msg nickserv identify mircpass
[10:01] <cbx33> whoops
[10:01] <cbx33> time to password change
[10:16] <willvdl> cbx33!
[10:17] <willvdl> bank details :)
[10:20] <cbx33> oh yeh....
[10:20] <cbx33> sorry forgot about that....
[10:20] <cbx33> who should I send them to?
[03:53] <bddebian> Heya
[03:56] <highvoltage> heya bdbbbdebian
[03:59] <bddebian> Heh, heya highvoltage
[04:34] <meshezabeel> I middle-dragged the 3 menus to the right of the launcher icons in the top tool bar, now I can't get those 3 menus (Applications, Places, System) back to the left. Any idea how?
[05:17] <toosa>  /msg NickServ help
[05:29] <sbalneav> Morning all
[05:31] <Laser_away> hi sbalneav
[05:31] <sbalneav> Hey Laser_away
[08:35] <cbx33> ping ogra
[08:43] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[08:45] <highvoltage> hey cbx33
[08:45] <cbx33> hey highvoltage
[08:46] <cbx33> howz it going?
[08:49] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[08:52] <LaserJock> cbx33: I figured out how to set up apache on my home server last night
[08:52] <cbx33> nice
[08:52] <cbx33> with php5?
[08:53] <LaserJock> well, how to do it while only letting my home network and uni network have access
[08:53] <cbx33> ahh nice
[08:53] <LaserJock> I'm a little more security-minded these days
[08:53] <stgraber> using apache or iptables for the filtering thing ?
[08:54] <LaserJock> so it's not on :80 and I limit IPs
[08:54] <cbx33> ahh
[08:54] <cbx33> cool
[08:54] <LaserJock> stgraber: apache so far
[08:54] <cbx33> cool
[08:54] <stgraber> k
[08:54] <cbx33> firestarter is pretty cool
[08:54] <LaserJock> I'm behind a DSL router
[08:54] <stgraber> personally I moved to a : VPN -> home network
[08:54] <cbx33> hehe
[08:54] <cbx33> alright smarty pants
[08:54] <cbx33> ;)
[08:54] <stgraber> it's easier if you can
[08:54] <LaserJock> so I'm only letting in 2 ports to my server
[08:55] <stgraber> 22+your custom port I guess
[08:56] <LaserJock> I haven't done PHP yet ( I don't think)
[08:56] <cbx33> heh
[08:56] <LaserJock> I did install the svn and python mods
[08:57] <cbx33> LaserJock, do you have a list of all the educational apps in universe?
[08:57] <cbx33> ahh cool
[08:57] <cbx33> svn over https is wicked cool
[08:57] <LaserJock> I don't know PHP so unless I want to install something like a wiki I don't have a need for it
[08:57] <cbx33> hehe
[08:58] <LaserJock> and I could even you Moin for a wiki and be PHPless
[08:58] <LaserJock> PHP and MySQL scare me stil
[09:00] <stgraber> They are use everywhere and then are the usual target for the "hackers", I think PHP+MySQL are really powerful for the webpages but you really need to take care of the security
[09:00] <cbx33> moin is awesome
[09:00] <sbalneav> I'm scared of quicksand myself. :)
[09:00] <cbx33> hehe
[09:00] <cbx33> LaserJock, do you have a list?
[09:00] <LaserJock> stgraber: that's why I think I'm just going to leave them out unless I really have to
[09:00] <sbalneav> Fortunately, it's a good phobia to have, as I very rarely run into it. :)
[09:00] <LaserJock> cbx33: it's almost impossible to create such a list, for me
[09:01] <cbx33> :(
[09:01] <cbx33> i thought you had one?
[09:01] <cbx33> or was that just science
[09:01] <cbx33> do you knwo of any good edu apps?
[09:01] <LaserJock> cbx33: the problem is they are scattered all over the repo, and it's sort of a judgment call as to what is educational and what isn't
[09:01] <LaserJock> I have a list for Science yes
[09:01] <stgraber> LaserJock: Once I decided to count how many times someone (or something in case of a script) is trying to use PHP security issue on my server, it was hundreds of times a day :)
[09:02] <LaserJock> and I've been collectiong a list for MIRs
[09:02] <cbx33> it's for the book you see
[09:02] <stgraber> but : I don't have PHP as root, I don't allow mail() and my tmp directory are cleaned frequently, ... so no problem so far
[09:02] <LaserJock> stgraber: cool
[09:03] <LaserJock> cbx33: well, you could email edubuntu-users
[09:03] <cbx33> ok
[09:04] <LaserJock> cbx33: here are some resources I used:
[09:04] <LaserJock>  http://richtech.ca/seul/
[09:04] <LaserJock> http://www.gnomefiles.com/category.php?cat_id=13
[09:04] <LaserJock> http://linuxappfinder.com/education
[09:05] <LaserJock> and then some of the apps we are looking to possibly add to Edubuntu are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/EdubuntuMIRCandidates
[09:14] <cbx33> openuniverse is cool
[09:15] <cbx33> man there are more apps than I ever imagined
[09:16] <LaserJock> cbx33: did you see that I just got marble into Feisty the other day for oli?
[09:16] <cbx33> marble?
[09:16] <LaserJock> it's a world map thingy
[09:16] <LaserJock> like a globe
[09:17] <LaserJock> and then you type in a city and it takes you there
[09:17] <LaserJock> and you can zoom in and out
[09:17] <LaserJock> should be pretty cool for geography
[09:17] <cbx33> like google earth?
[09:17] <LaserJock> I haven't tried google earth :/
[09:17] <LaserJock> probably less features
[09:17] <cbx33> sound like google earth
[09:17] <LaserJock> but I think it's like that idea
[09:17] <cbx33> ok
[09:17] <LaserJock> but it's open source
[09:18] <LaserJock> works pretty slick
[09:18] <LaserJock> it even had my little town I live in
[09:20] <cbx33> wow
[09:55] <cbx33> ping ogra
[10:00] <ogra> cbx33, sorry, development team meeting now
[10:00] <cbx33> oh sorry ogra
[10:00] <cbx33> can I mail you a few questions about the book
[10:00] <ogra> ok
[10:01] <cbx33> did you get qa chance to try out the vnc yet was the only other question
[10:02] <ogra> nop
[10:02] <cbx33> ok
[10:24] <cbx33> ogra, will we know pretty much after the sprint which specs will be in and which won't?
[10:24] <ogra> yep
[10:25] <cbx33> ok
[10:25] <cbx33> that makes me feel a little easier
[10:25] <cbx33> I'll be LTCMing tomrorow, I hope to add the blanking system....
[10:25] <cbx33> are we confirmed moving to a icon toolbar at the top for LTCM?
[10:26] <ogra> i think so ...
[10:26] <cbx33> ok
[10:27] <cbx33> sorry I'll leave you be now....
[10:27] <cbx33> I'm just getting less and less time to discuss things....
[10:27] <cbx33> so I have to do it in chunks
[10:27] <cbx33> would appreciate a test of the vnc to see if you concur as to it's suitability
[10:28] <LaserJock> cbx33: what are you using for vnc server?
[10:28] <cbx33> it will be x11vnc on the nfs roots iirc
[10:28] <cbx33> for the python viewer I'm using a hacked up version of RedHat's virt-manager
[10:33] <cbx33> sound good?
[10:35] <LaserJock> is the vnc server on the LTSP server or on the actual client?
[10:35] <cbx33> on the client
[10:35] <cbx33> iirc
[10:35] <LaserJock> why wouldn't it be on the server?
[10:35] <cbx33> the spec should explain it
[10:36] <cbx33> well this way it allows multiple server implementtaiton
[10:36] <LaserJock> wouldn't that still be the case if you vnced from the server
[10:36] <cbx33> well hmm
[10:36] <cbx33> yes
[10:36] <cbx33> srry I'm tired ;)
[10:36] <LaserJock> np
[10:36] <cbx33> I'm sure there's a reason
[10:36] <cbx33> ogra will know
[10:36] <cbx33> read the spec to see if it's in there
[10:37] <cbx33> I've not got to that bit yet
[10:37] <LaserJock> I was just thinking of vnc'ing from a client that is actually running on the server
[10:37] <ogra> the x11vnc server runs n the client, attached to DISPLAY=:0.0
[10:37] <LaserJock> why not use vino straight from the server?
[10:37] <ogra> the vnc client connects to the thin client so you can see whats on the screen there
[10:38] <ogra> we wouldnt be able to have tiled overviews of the classroom for example ...
[10:38] <LaserJock> but shouldn't you be able to get the from the server directly too? :/
[10:38] <ogra> vino would have to be started externally
[10:38] <LaserJock> s/the/that/
[10:38] <ogra> sure
[10:39] <cbx33> ogra, I'm going for this tomorrow, GUI redesign, blanking of screens, generalisation, adding tab for processview/vnc view
[10:39] <ogra> you can run vino and connect to the client IP as well if you know the password SCP generated
[10:39] <cbx33> currently I'm goign to make it look at 4 screens only
[10:39] <LaserJock> hmm, just seems like you are doubling the traffic if the client is getting everything from the server anyway
[10:40] <cbx33> it will only have 4 vnc sessions running at anyone time
[10:40] <LaserJock> but I'm certainly no LTSP or server expert
[10:40] <ogra> but you cant connect to the running ssh tunnel in a sane way
[10:40] <ogra> you need the contents of the client display ...
[10:40] <LaserJock> ogra: will you need anything from me for edubuntu-on-2-cds next week?
[10:40] <ogra> i dont know any way around connecting to the thin client
[10:41] <ogra> a list would be nice
[10:41] <cbx33> ogra, 4 vnc's shouldn't be crippling
[10:41] <cbx33> shuold it?
[10:41] <ogra> how's the MIR situation ?
[10:41] <ogra> cbx33, no idea, test it
[10:41] <cbx33> heh
[10:41] <LaserJock> ogra: well, I was sort of expecting more feedback (as usual)
[10:41] <cbx33> will try, but I have a lot of work to do before I get to that stage
[10:41] <LaserJock> ogra: but I can take the list I have on the wiki page and start digging material for MIRs and toss out any obvious problem packages
[10:42] <ogra> good
[10:42] <ogra> that should be a start
[10:42] <LaserJock> it might be mostly science for the first go around
[10:42] <LaserJock> as there are a lot to choose from and seem to be fairly in demand
[10:42] <ogra> apart from that it seems there are many people intrested in herd testing at the forums ....
[10:42] <ogra> probably we can get more feedback from there
[10:42] <cbx33> ogra can we set the default options for the x11vnc server to be low quality and high encoding?
[10:43] <ogra> sure
[10:43] <LaserJock> hmm, should I open a thread on the "Education and Science" subforum?
[10:43] <ogra> just give me the parameters you want, i will add them to the initscript
[10:43] <ogra> LaserJock, good idea
[10:43] <LaserJock> ogra: ok, will do
[10:44] <cbx33> ok, ogra, is herd 2 working well enough for edubuntu
[10:44] <cbx33> in other words...can I install a test environmen
[10:44] <cbx33> and install x11vnc in the nfs root
[10:44] <ogra> i'm fine with any list you give me for the start ... the rest of the CD will be stuffed with langpacks
[10:44] <cbx33> and get this thing tested?
[10:44] <ogra> sure
[10:44] <cbx33> ok
[10:44] <ogra> herd2 worked fine for me during testing
[10:44] <cbx33> I'll hack up all I can without it....and then run it to fix it up
[10:44] <LaserJock> ogra: how much room do you think langpacks will take?
[10:45] <cbx33> my laptop can't support vmware you see
[10:45] <ogra> LaserJock, all thats left
[10:45] <cbx33> so I have to do all that type of stuff on my desktop at home
[10:45] <LaserJock> ogra: heh, ok
[10:45] <ogra> i will just fill them up
[10:45] <cbx33> but most of my dev work takes place on the car journey to and from work
[10:45] <ogra> even though we need to decide about winFOSS ....
[10:45] <LaserJock> ogra: I'm sure there will be many South Americans loving you for Feisty
[10:45] <ogra> we could put some windows apps n it as well
[10:46] <ogra> and asians
[10:46] <LaserJock> is the Ubuntu winFOSS also on Edubuntu?
[10:46] <ogra> no, but if we have space left i'm fine to consider it for the second CD
[10:46] <LaserJock> hmm, I've never been a big fan of it, but some people seem to be :-)
[10:47] <cbx33> people at BETT would have been if I could give it to them on CD
[10:47] <ogra> well, richEd wants to promote win/linux interoperability with edubuntu
[10:47] <ogra> winfoss helps there
[10:48] <LaserJock> yeah, I would just think that a seperate CD is the way to go there
[10:48] <LaserJock> instead of taking up 50-60MB on an installation CD
[10:48] <cbx33> ogra is the filter high/low proority on the spec?
[10:48] <ogra> high
[10:49] <ogra> you said its trivial
[10:49] <cbx33> hehe
[10:49] <cbx33> yes i did didn't i
[10:49] <cbx33> oh heck I'll try to implement everything
[10:50] <cbx33> may need a little bit of help from you on some bits but I'll do my best to get everything done
[10:50] <ogra> we'll go with what you got by feature freeze ... just make sure to produce no regressions in functionallity
[10:52] <cbx33> how could I regress it?
[10:52] <cbx33> it's only gonna move forward
[10:52] <cbx33> ;)
[10:55] <cbx33> ogra for now at least, the vnc stuff will be gnome only
[10:55] <cbx33> its all gtk based
[10:56] <cbx33> and tbph I'm not well up enough on it to make it generic
[10:56] <ogra> ok
[10:56] <cbx33> i may be able to for feisty + 1
[10:56] <cbx33> but it's gonna mean hacking up the virt-manager vnc stuff to be generic
[10:56] <ogra> keep that in the frontend then and QT needs to find its own solution
[10:56] <cbx33> yes
[10:56] <cbx33> ok
[10:59] <cbx33> ogra, how will the locking screen be handled if they are running a kde environment?
[11:00] <cbx33> for now the backend will assume gnoe
[11:02] <ogra> then you need to add a kscreensaver patch they send you
[11:04] <LaserJock> ogra: hmm, interesting news regarding kwii
[11:04] <LaserJock> kwwii rather
[11:04] <ogra> yes
[11:05] <ogra> seems it makes more sense than last minute outsourcing
[11:06] <LaserJock> yeah, I'd much rather see him working on it then just some guy off the streat ;-)
[11:06] <LaserJock> *street, I can't spell today
[11:06] <ajmitch> ogra: what are your plans for edubuntu-network-auth-* next week, and what do you need?
[11:09] <LaserJock> hmmm, now I'm confused as to Canonical structure and what it means WRT Ubuntu
[11:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's always a confusion
[11:10] <ogra> ajmitch, actually i still need to package the smbldap scripts
[11:11] <ogra> all i should need then is slapd and edsadmin
[11:11] <ogra> the latter is a bit tricky, there are license files missing
[11:11] <ogra> need to talk to upstream
[11:11] <ogra> my main work will be debconf scripting
[11:12] <ajmitch> yeah, I want to see what you need preseeded for the client, so I can hack that in ASAP :)
[11:12] <ajmitch> seems like it'll be a wet weekend here, perfect for hacking
[11:13] <ogra> we're currently being blown off the face of the earth
[11:13] <ogra> up to 200km/h winds here
[11:13] <ajmitch> wow
[11:13] <ogra> and 11C
[11:14] <ogra> in january its usually -5 or colder and surely not windy at all
[11:14] <ajmitch> about 20C here
[11:15] <LaserJock> bah
[11:15] <ajmitch> you have plans for the e-n-a-client spec next week?
[11:15] <LaserJock> it's about -5C or so here
[11:15] <ogra> not really ... i'll need to look into the pieces again ... i focused on the python-ltsp stuff recently
[11:16] <ajmitch> ok
[11:17] <ogra> i plan to attack it during the week though
[11:17] <ajmitch> I'll be around if you want help with some parts of it
[11:18] <ogra> the last week somehow threw me behind schedule, i have to get that straight again ...
[11:18] <LaserJock> ajmitch: heh, wanna help me do some MIRs? :-)
[11:19] <ajmitch> LaserJock: for what?
[11:19] <LaserJock> ajmitch: oh, like 20 or so educational apps
[11:20] <ajmitch> should only take you a few minutes
[11:20] <ajmitch> trying to fill up the 2nd cd? :)
[11:20] <LaserJock> well, kinda
[11:20] <LaserJock> ogra's gong to be the one doing most of the filling (with lang packs)
[11:20] <LaserJock> *going
[11:20] <ogra> no
[11:21] <ogra> i'm going to fill all the *remaining* space with langpacks
[11:21] <LaserJock> I don't think I can get 700MB worth of edu apps in Main for feisty ;-)
[11:21] <ogra> they are and wll alsways be the gap filling pieces, but the second CD is for the apps first place


[09:01] <mgz> morning!
[12:38] <jelmer> sup mgz!
[13:47] <mgz> hey jelmer!
[14:45] <mgz> ...there were two verification-needed bugs for the oneiric sru? annoyance...


[12:57] <goshawk> hi
[12:58] <goshawk> i'm testing ubuntu oneiric in a server and there is an issue with grub2. if the server is down due to a power cut when it boots it gets stuck on grub menu waiting for keyboard input. i think it's a very dangerous setting for a server...
[13:26] <letozaf_> hello I need to ask a question about laptop testing, can someone help me ?
[13:32] <goshawk> if there are some free developers around please take a look at
[13:32] <goshawk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/841009
[13:37] <letozaf_> hello there, is someone willing to help on laptop testing ?
[13:38] <goshawk> letozaf_, just ask your question
[13:38] <letozaf_> thank you
[13:39] <letozaf_> I was testing Oneiric Beta 1 on my laptop a HP-62
[13:39] <letozaf_> some applications crashed or stopped working
[13:39] <letozaf_> but when I tried to report a bug I got a message saying that I have obsolete packages installed and that
[13:39] <letozaf_> I should upgrade
[13:40] <letozaf_> My question is: I have no problem launching a apt-get dist-upgrade, but on the laptop testing tracker there is an iso to download and test
[13:41] <letozaf_> if I upgrade the packages are the tests still ok, or will I be testing on wrong  packages ?
[13:45] <goshawk> letozaf_, do this command
[13:45] <goshawk> lsb_release -a
[13:45] <goshawk> gimme the output
[13:46] <letozaf_> I get the message:
[13:46] <letozaf_> No LSB modules are available.
[13:46] <letozaf_> why ?
[13:46] <goshawk> an then ?
[13:46] <letozaf_> nothing
[13:46] <goshawk> u should see more
[13:47] <letozaf_> o sorry yes...
[13:47] <letozaf_> I get
[13:47] <goshawk> ;)
[13:47] <letozaf_> distributor ID: UBUNTU
[13:47] <letozaf_> description: Ubuntu Oneiric (development branch)
[13:47] <letozaf_> release: 11.10
[13:47] <letozaf_> codename: Oneiric
[13:47] <letozaf_> thats all
[13:48] <goshawk> yeah
[13:48] <goshawk> u can update
[13:48] <goshawk> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[13:48] <goshawk> and report bugs
[13:48] <goshawk> remember to include the package version when u submit a new bug
[13:49] <letozaf_> ok thank you, but will the tests for the laptop testing tracker still be ok ?
[13:49] <goshawk> yeah
[13:49] <letozaf_> thank you very much :)
[13:50] <goshawk> ;)
[13:51] <goshawk> btw who said u that u have a not updated packagE ?
[13:51] <goshawk> the testing tracker ?
[13:52] <letozaf_> no, when for instance the software center closed inaspectadly
[13:52] <letozaf_> I tried to report a bug with apport
[13:53] <letozaf_> but instead of proceding with the bug report I got a window
[13:53] <letozaf_> with a message saying that I had obsolete packages and that
[13:53] <letozaf_> I should update them
[13:53] <goshawk> did it tell u the packages ?
[13:53] <letozaf_> and that the bug could not be reporte
[13:53] <letozaf_> yes I had a list of packages
[13:54] <letozaf_> If you want I'll try to reproduce the problem
[13:54] <goshawk> no no it's not necessary
[20:59] <astraljava> Hey gang, anyone else not seeing a divider for allocating space when installing alongside of an existing system? Xubuntu oneiric post-beta1, is what I'm using.
[20:59] <astraljava> I didn't see a bug for it, but could be that I'm not using the right terms.
[21:10] <charlie-tca> not enough space?
[21:14] <astraljava> charlie-tca: 80GB hard-drive, with one entire-disk installation before.
[21:15] <charlie-tca> That would be a bug, then
[21:15] <astraljava> Ok, I'll be filing it, then.
[21:15] <astraljava> Thanks!
[21:16] <charlie-tca> Thank you