[04:22] <jelmer> cjwatson: that MR LGTM
[04:23] <jelmer> I'm currently traveling without my launchpad credentials so can't formally +1 it in the web UI (back in a week)
[09:12] <cjwatson> jelmer: fair enough, thanks!


[10:24] <frankban> hi there gmb: have you red the email from Gary?
[10:26] <gmb> Hi frankban. Yes, I have. Want to pair on it?
[10:26] <frankban> gmb: sure
[10:27] <gmb> frankban, Cool. I just need  to finish doing the update/upgrade/reboot cycle and then I'll be ready. I'll ping you shortly.
[10:27] <frankban> ok gmb
[10:53] <gmb> frankban, I'm in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/canonical.com/lxc-start-whut#
[10:57] <gmb> (export OTHER=gmb REMOTE=chinstrap.canonical.com; trap reset 0 1 2 3 15; stty raw -echo isig && ssh chinstrap.canonical.com "cat /tmp/$OTHER-term")
[11:07] <frankban> sudo mount -t overlayfs -oupperdir=$LXC_DIR/ephemeral-binding,lowerdir=$LXC_BIND none $LXC_DIR/rootfs$LXC_BIND
[11:35] <frankban> gmb:  sed -i '$ d' filename
[13:04]  * benji waits until after the call to apply updates... just in case
[13:08] <gary_poster> benji frankban gmb call in 2
[13:08] <gmb> ack
[13:43] <benji> I can see it now: all of our machines die and we have to resort to e-cannibalism.
[14:03] <gary_poster> heh
[14:15] <gary_poster> benji, I'm going to futz with bug 609986 while we are waiting on the ephemeral script changes.
[14:15] <_mup_> Bug #609986: layer setup failures don't output a failure message (they spew straight to console) <lp-foundations> <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/609986 >
[14:16] <gmb> frankban, I should be ready to pair again in a moment. Just need to reboot.
[14:16] <benji> gary_poster: do you want a spectator/heckler?
[14:16] <gary_poster> benji, sure :-)
[14:16] <gmb> benji, Inicdentally, we used your term-sharing-via-chinstrap thing this morning; worked very well, though it was disconcerting to not be able to see what frankban was seeing.
[14:17] <gmb> (i.e. I knew what I was sending, but not how it was ending up)
[14:17] <benji> gmb: cool
[14:18] <benji> gmb: something Gary has done when we were debugging the hack is to use the hangout screen sharing to then share the window back with me so I can see how it's ending up on his side
[14:19] <gmb> benji, Yes, that thought occurred to me, but the hangout was pretty sluggish (probably because of my VM(
[14:19] <gmb> )
[14:19] <gary_poster> benji, I'm in https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/extras/canonical.com/goldenhorde
[14:19] <benji> gmb (and everyone): earlier this morning I made a slight change to the terminal sharing page that should make it a little more reliable
[14:19] <gary_poster> oh, cool
[14:20] <benji> gary_poster: I'll be there in a moment.  I need to run out to the car to get my headset.
[14:20] <gary_poster> cool
[14:26]  * gmb reboots
[14:46] <gmb> frankban, I'm finally back up and running, and I'm in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/canonical.com/lxc-start-whut
[14:47] <frankban> gmb: ok
[14:55] <frankban> gmb: sudo lxc-create -t ubuntu -n lp -f /etc/lxc/local.conf -- -r lucid -a amd64 -b graham
[15:07] <gmb> frankban, lp:~gmb/+junk/lxc-start-ephemeral.scratch/
[15:18] <gmb> frankban, sed -i '/graham/d' /tmp/fstab
[15:20] <gmb> frankban, sed -i '/'$USER'/d' $LXC_DIR/fstab
[15:49] <gmb> frankban, https://pastebin.canonical.com/62032/
[16:05] <gmb> benji, We have questions about lxc-start-ephemeral that you might be able to help us with. Are you free?
[16:05] <benji> gmb: sure
[16:06] <benji> gmb: are you hanging out?
[16:06] <gmb> benji, Cool, we're in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/canonical.com/lxc-start-whut
[16:32] <benji> gary_poster: I'm done with them and am starving so I think I'll do lunch now unless you're in desperate need of heckling.
[16:32] <gary_poster> benji, :-) no, s'ok
[16:40]  * gary_poster about to babysit
[17:04] <gmb> gary_poster: Are you free for a brief chat about lxc-start-ephemeral and all its joys?
[17:04] <gmb> ]
[17:27]  * benji is back.
[17:45] <benji> gmb/frankban: did you guys get the second ephemeral issue figured out?
[17:45] <gmb> benji: yeah, it's a bug in lxc-wait.
[17:45] <benji> heh
[17:45] <gmb> Not our fault, and it's a problem we can hack around, probably.
[17:46] <gmb> Basically lxc-wait can only be used for one lxc instance at a time.
[17:46] <gmb> Because it always uses the same Unix socket.
[17:46] <benji> gmb: I guess you're about to EOD, in which case Gary and I can take over if you can transfer enough state to us.
[17:46] <gmb> benji: I've just emailed the list with a patch and details of the problem.
[17:46] <gmb> Everything else works.
[17:46] <benji> perfect
[17:47] <gmb> benji: There's only one place where lxc-wait is really an issue, and that's where it's used to block until the ephemeral instance stops.
[17:47] <gmb> lxc-start-ephemeral:204 in lp:~yellow/+junk/lxc-start-ephemeral
[17:48] <gmb> Because it just errors it means that the ephemeral instance starts and then (potentially) gets torn down again almost immediately.
[17:48] <gmb> Which I imagine would make testr a sad little panda.
[17:52] <gmb> Anyway, a relatively productive day.
[17:53] <gmb> (Said in much the same way as one would talk about a relatively productive cough)
[17:53] <gmb> (It's good that stuff's coming out, but no-one likes having to deal with it very much)
[17:59] <gary_poster> gmb, I am now, but I imagine this is your perfect time to escape, yeah?
[17:59] <gary_poster> heh
[18:00] <gary_poster> cool sounds good gmb & frankban.   Have a great weekend
[18:01] <frankban> you too gary_poster
[18:02] <benji> gary_poster: who shall pick up their banner?
[18:02] <gary_poster> benji, you definitely; me maybe.
[18:03] <benji> k
[18:03] <gary_poster> benji, I don't think the lxc-wait issue is a problem for our usage of lxc-start-ephemeral; do you agree?
[18:04] <gary_poster> benji, I will file a bug for this right now
[18:04] <benji> gary_poster: I don't /think/ so but I get the feeling that you have some deeper thought that I'm not following.
[18:06] <gary_poster> benji, the script only uses lxc-wait twice.  The second one is not an issue because it only comes into play if you do not pass a command to lxc-start-ephemeral.  We always do for the case of the parallel tests.
[18:07] <gary_poster> The first time we use lxc-wait, we are waiting on RUNNING, and as long as we proceed if that fails (as I am pretty sure we do) we will be ok because we just try to ssh in, and don't do anything until it is ready.
[18:07] <gary_poster> So neither instance is an issue for us AFAICT
[18:08] <benji> gary_poster: right
[18:10] <benji> gary_poster: if the g&f team fixed the overlayfs issue, then we should be ready to try running the tests again; right?
[18:10] <gary_poster> yes, benji.
[18:10] <benji> sweet
[18:42] <gary_poster> benji, call?  I would like to talk about the ephemeral changes
[18:43] <benji> gary_poster: sure, one second
[18:43] <gary_poster> cool, I'm in the horde
[19:33] <gary_poster> benji, I'm in https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/extras/canonical.com/goldenhorde but stepping away.  back in 5
[19:33] <benji> gary_poster: ok


[00:24] <stdin> hmm, I take it #ubuntu-modding is not an approved channel?
[00:24] <nalioth> stdin: i'm on it
[00:24] <stdin> nalioth: ok, I forget sometimes that you are all seeing/all knowing :)
[00:28] <no0tic> weedgrinch on -irc seeks approval for the creation of an #ubuntu-* channel
[00:31] <nalioth> no0tic: we see him.  he's already created it, though.  :)
[01:40] <ubotu> emma called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[01:41] <Jack_Sparrow> It is handled.. problem is gone
[03:04] <Helvasca> :(
[03:09] <nalioth> Helvasca: can we be of service?
[03:10] <Helvasca> I got banned from #ubuntu after a bit of stupidity about 3 weeks ago, by jumping in an saying "join #trivia" and I was wondering if anything can be done.
[03:11] <Andre_Gondim> how may i have ubuntu cloak?
[03:12] <nalioth> ubotu: tell Andre_Gondim about member
[03:12] <Andre_Gondim> I am Ubuntu Member https://launchpad.net/~andregondim
[03:15] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: one moment pleae
[03:15] <Andre_Gondim> ok
[03:16] <nalioth> Helvasca: have fun (helping folks)
[03:16] <Helvasca> thanks nalioth I wont be so stupid next time!
[03:17] <nalioth> freenode recommends setting up your nick in this fashion: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup Andre_Gondim
[03:17] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: please make sure your nick is set up in the above fashion  :)
[03:18] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, wait a few
[03:23] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, now I only need reconect?
[03:23] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: no
[03:23] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: one step at a time :)
[03:23] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, i recive the mail confirm me in
[03:24] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: but you still have not set up your nick according to policy  :|
[03:24] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, what else a i need?
[03:25] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: /msg nickserv info Andre_Gondim
[03:25] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth,  i need to registers nick?
[03:25] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: you need an alt nick linked to your primary nick and an email
[03:29] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, I think I did everything...
[03:29] <ubotu> nickrud called the ops in #ubuntu (fireman2333 (seems to be a consensus))
[03:32] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, anything else?
[03:33] <nalioth> Andre_Gondim: uno momento, por favor
[03:33] <ubotu> erawfish called the ops in #ubuntu (fireman23333333 ban evasion)
[03:33] <Andre_Gondim> nalioth, ok
[03:54] <ubotu> ogre called the ops in #ubuntu (erawfish)
[03:58] <jdong> cL
[03:58] <jdong> wait you're not mutt
[05:01] <konqui-89> I got banned from Ubuntu earlier and I really really really need help with my sound and my questions arent being answered on the forums... I desperately need your help so I can get this pc to my friend..
[07:38] <master_obredar> hello
[07:38] <master_obredar> damn another dead room
[07:38] <jussi01> master_obredar: how can we help today?
[07:39] <master_obredar> have prob with wine
[07:39] <master_obredar> spec diont know how to use
[07:39] <Jucato> this isn't exactly a help/support channel :)
[07:40] <jussi01> master_obredar: This isnt #ubuntu - you have probably been forwarded here
[07:40] <master_obredar> i did the download as it told me to but cant find it on my sys to try and use it
[07:41] <master_obredar> no i've tried about 12 ubuntu room and no one would even say hi
[07:41] <master_obredar> i downloaded it threw the terminal and i still cant find it in my apps list
[07:41] <jussi01> master_obredar: try typing: /join #ubuntu
[07:42] <master_obredar> where
[07:42] <Jucato> !night
[07:42] <jussi01> in the bax you type to talk to me
[07:42] <ubotu> It's the middle of the night in the US and Europe, and surrounds.  This means that a lot of people are likely asleep, therefore there are less potential people who can answer your question.  Please be patient, and consider asking at a time when more people will be awake.  This is particularly true in the quieter channels.
[07:42] <master_obredar> /join#ubuntu
[07:42] <Jucato> jussi01: <master_obredar> no i've tried about 12 ubuntu room and no one would even say hi <--- I presume he's been to #ubuntu
[07:44] <master_obredar> i new with linux --ubuntu
[07:44] <master_obredar> 7.04
[07:45] <master_obredar> join#ubuntu
[07:45] <master_obredar> /join#ubuntu
[07:45] <master_obredar> i'm still here
[07:48] <jussi01> master_obredar: with the space...
[07:48] <master_obredar> / join # ubuntu
[07:49] <master_obredar> / join #ubuntu
[07:50] <master_obredar> join #ubuntu
[07:50] <Jucato> master_obredar: /join <space> #ubuntu
[07:50] <master_obredar> ty
[07:52] <jussi01> did I say something wrong? :/
[07:53] <Jucato> :P
[07:53] <Jucato> I guess it wasn't obvious to him where to put the space
[10:39] <dgjones> can somebody have a look at <P5YCH00> can u tell me what you guys think of it   http://store.picbg.net/pubpic/FE/47/3da73df9d7b1fe47.jpg in #ubuntu, doesn't seem appropriate, the link is going to a male model
[10:41] <jussi01> Afternoon all..
[10:44] <jpatrick> afternoon jussi01
[10:45] <jussi01> gday jpatrick
[10:52] <ikonia> howdy
[13:31] <Hobbsee> !exploit
[13:32] <ubotu> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse a bug in certain routers by sending invalid DCC commands. When bitten by this bug ops in #ubuntu remove users so they are no longer targets. To fix it have a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit
[13:36] <Hobbsee> xchat-gnome replies as such, and not as xchat, doesn't it?
[15:02] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
[15:02] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
[15:05] <LjL> !staff | have a look at the above mass join please... they haven't parted yet, and they don't even look very much like bots
[15:05] <ubotu> have a look at the above mass join please... they haven't parted yet, and they don't even look very much like bots: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary,  I could use a bit of your time :)
[15:07] <LjL> was there a split? it was a long time ago if there was one
[15:09] <Jack_Sparrow> LjL: gary and dave2 etc see, to be the same person..
[15:09] <Jack_Sparrow> seem
[15:10] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: ?
[15:10] <Jack_Sparrow> One sec
[15:10] <Mez> Jack_Sparrow, they have the same hostmask yes, that's cause they're staff ;)
[15:11] <LjL> it must have been a rejoin from netsplit, some of the joiners are known to me
[15:11] <Jack_Sparrow> Got it
[15:11] <LjL> but i have no idea when the netsplit was
[15:11] <LjL> jrib?
[15:11] <jrib> LjL: I was with 20 people in #ubuntu since 8am at least
[15:11] <LjL> jrib: ... wow.
[15:12] <LjL> jrib: wait, that is 14 utc?
[15:12] <jrib> two hours ago
[15:12] <LjL> ok, 14
[15:12] <Mez> LjL, and ogra was in the mass join too ...
[15:12] <LjL> nice split
[15:12] <LjL> Mez: yeah and so were other nicknames that i don't precisely know, but recognize
[15:13] <Mez> LjL, I recognised one or two
[15:13] <LjL> also i repeat myself, but i'm TIRED of seeing "yacc" in -unregged
[15:28] <LjL> [16:28:32] <Poka> Ljl uses fibre pele2. :-]
[15:28] <LjL> i don't like this. how does he know?
[15:29] <LjL> interesting hostname, and was trolling about root earlier.
[15:30] <LjL> nickname registered 24 minutes ago
[15:35] <jdong> LjL: aww you've got a stalker buddy?
[15:36] <LjL> jdong: more than one, i'm sure. but i can't connect this one to anyone. host isn't a proxy (at least from what i can tell)... nickname etc are unknown to me
[15:36] <LjL> and i think i only ever mentioned having fiber in -offtopic
[15:36] <LjL> of course, he could just /whois ljl-temp
[15:37] <LjL> but somehow i suspect that's not what he did - what with the nickname being registered 20 minutes ago
[15:37] <LjL> ah wait, ljl-temp is cloaked as well
[15:38] <jdong> that's weird
[15:39] <LjL> the other guy who was arguing "root is good" (stwange) is also on an interesting host, but the nickname's been registered for a long time
[15:42] <LjL> ikonia: i'm not *sure* he's not a troll, but anyway...
[15:42] <ikonia> LjL: I'm not certain either, but he wasn't trolling asking someone to stop saying lol every minute
[15:43] <LjL> yeah i know
[15:43] <LjL> bah, sentences he said are all too short and typo-less
[15:47] <ikonia> ?
[15:47] <LjL> ikonia: there are many different keyboard layouts, and even given one keyboard layout, people tend to repeat similar typos.
[15:52] <ikonia> ahhh
[16:25] <dbmoodb> ubuntu is starting to get really crowed do you think you should put a limit and use the overflow channel a bit more ? - say 1000 max on ubuntu
[16:27] <LjL> ?
[16:27] <LjL> the overflow channel is there for attacks
[16:27] <LjL> it's certainly not there to stop legitimate users from joining
[16:27] <dbmoodb> oh sure just thought it might get a bit crowded in ubuntu from time to time
[16:28] <LjL> well that's a problem with being popular, but making joining harder is not the solution
[16:29] <dbmoodb> .... making the joining spread is one no ?
[16:29] <dbmoodb> tis not harder just spread out
[16:30] <LjL> dbmoodb: elaborate, i don't understand the idea
[16:31] <dbmoodb> well lets say you put a limit on the number of users to lets say 800 and then you would have 400 in the overflow, allow the users from the second channel to join the first channel after they have joined the second one if they really want too that way the second one can deal with more basic problems perhaps
[16:32] <PriceChild> That's just reeeeeeeeeeally annoying?!
[16:32] <PriceChild> People join #ubuntu, they want to ask a question, they want an answer.
[16:32] <LjL> well for starters, i see no way in the irc protocol to implement that... secondly, ew.
[16:33] <dbmoodb> ah
[16:33] <PriceChild> They don't want to get told to /join #ubuntu when someone else is ready
[16:33] <LjL> after all as i always say, conversations aren't really that hard to follow, unless the user doesn't use highlights
[16:33] <LjL> (in which case you tell them to)
[16:34] <dbmoodb> how do i use highlights /
[16:34] <LjL> what stays crowded is the questions
[16:34] <LjL> dbmoodb: by having your nickname mentioned
[16:34] <dbmoodb> to follow 3 or 4 conversations at once
[16:34] <dbmoodb> which do not involve my name but i might be able to help with
[16:35] <LjL> dbmoodb: well highlight the nick of the person involved.
[16:35] <dbmoodb> .ogv
[16:35] <dbmoodb> ops wrong channel
[16:36] <dbmoodb> oh i see. i still think it would be nice to have an ubuntu juniors too - for answering basic simple questions quickly
[16:36] <LjL> that would have to be the main channel
[16:37] <LjL> or you'd just waste more time redirecting people to the "juniors" channel
[16:37] <dbmoodb> mmm perhaps if it is possible to buffer posts into a database then filter them and perform some magic and move people about virtually
[16:38] <LjL> err... it's not like we can control how the IRC network works
[16:39] <dbmoodb> well in ubuntu's version of pidgin you are using the ubuntu alias fro the freenode servers no ?
[16:39] <dbmoodb> so theoretically you can
[16:39] <Pici> Er..
[16:40] <Pici> Its still IRC, theres nothing special about it being called irc.ubuntu.com/org/whatever
[16:40] <PriceChild> dbmoodb, ok... so all we need to do is code a new kind of irc server, then hire a hundred employees to constantly be filtering these questions... then tell all our helpers to move to this new system... and done!
[16:40] <PriceChild> Pici, he's saying we could point irc.ubuntu.com to our own server rather than irc.freenode.net
[16:41] <dbmoodb> well it sounded simpler before
[16:41] <dbmoodb> no i'm saying you point it to freenode but not for the ubuntu freenod ones directly
[16:42] <dbmoodb> just have a proxy kind of thing operating - i don't know adapt some squid code for irc
[16:42] <Pici> !answers
[16:42] <ubotu> Answers to various questions can be found at http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[16:42] <dbmoodb> --that is a good site
[16:42] <PriceChild> dbmoodb, so we'd be filtering both questions and answers?
[16:42] <dbmoodb> no
[16:42] <PriceChild> how do you differentiate/
[16:42] <dbmoodb> the filter ?
[16:43] <stdin> how can it tell what's an answer and what's a question? and what about if you need to ask the person a question to give them an answer, would that get filtered?
[16:44] <PriceChild> stdin, i assume this is a person doing the filtering...
[16:44] <LjL> stdin: err... metabot :)
[16:44] <dbmoodb> hopefully not price
[16:45] <dbmoodb> perhaps jabber could provide a different way to do it in the future mmm?
[16:46] <LjL> we're not moving from IRC i think
[16:46] <dbmoodb> yes hence a xmpp room in addition to this could relieve some stress maybe
[16:47]  * PriceChild notices bip is 11 hours out
[16:47] <LjL> ew
[16:47] <LjL> !support
[16:47] <ubotu> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu (whether you get a response there or not). Please be aware that this channel is mainly for other discussion.
[16:47] <LjL> when was this factoid changed
[16:47] <LjL> this ought to be !support-#ubuntu-offtopic, no?
[16:48] <LjL> this used to list support options
[16:48] <PriceChild> dbmoodb, so new users have to register accounts and go through all of that to get into the room?
[16:48] <dbmoodb> no
[16:48] <PriceChild> that sounds like a step backwards
[16:48] <dbmoodb> i said xmpp not oh i know lets force users to make accounts
[16:48] <dbmoodb> ubuntu could have their own xmpp server etc.
[16:48] <PriceChild> but xmpp requires users to have their own accounts no?
[16:49] <PriceChild> whether they have gmail, jabber, or some ubuntu one
[16:49] <dbmoodb> not in all set ups if i understand it correctly and even if that is true they could just be given one for a short period based on ip
[16:50] <dbmoodb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabber#Connecting_to_other_protocols
[16:51] <dbmoodb> night
[16:51] <PriceChild> You know... he might have something there...!
[16:51] <PriceChild> wait no... still lost
[16:53] <mneptok> we could borrow old man johnson's barn and put on a show!
[17:19] <Pici> Suggestion: fooser to be kicked/banned from #kubuntu, is bot.
[17:20] <Pici> s/is bot/is a bot/
[17:20] <stdin> does it speak?
[17:20] <Pici> Oh, it did in #ubuntu.
[17:20] <Pici> see #K
[17:21] <Pici> or nalioth could take care of it ;)
[17:21] <stdin> I see it's also in -modding...
[17:21] <Pici> hrm.
[17:23] <nalioth> -modding . . .
[18:08] <ubotu> In ubotu, jussi01 said: !usb is For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick For a persistent live USB install, please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
[18:08] <Pici> usb
[18:08] <Pici> !usb
[18:08] <ubotu> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[18:10] <Pici> !no usb is <reply> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
[18:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that Pici
[18:10]  * jussi01 hugs Pici
[18:14]  * jpatrick hugs ubotu
[18:14] <jussi01> do we really recomend ies4linux ?????
[18:14] <jussi01> !ies4linux
[18:14] <ubotu> ies4linux is a script that quickly and effortlessly helps you install 3 versions of IE in Wine. Information can be found at http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page including instructions specifically for Ubuntu. ies4linux is aimed at web designers and ie-only sites, so please, don’t use any of the IEs to navigate! Use Firefox!
[18:16] <stdin> jussi01: for web developers that need to make sure their site works with IE, yes
[18:16] <jussi01> stdin: I just dont like that script - I understand the reasoning...
[18:17] <stdin> I've never used it, so I don't know that much about how it works
[18:17] <Pici> Its just a set of scripts to install IE in wine.
[18:19] <jpatrick> looks evil
[18:19] <jussi01> it is evil
[18:19] <jpatrick> 2) Open /etc/apt/sources.list  sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:19] <jpatrick> NOO
[18:20]  * jussi01 feels vindicated
[18:20] <jpatrick> http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Installation:Ubuntu
[18:20] <jpatrick> "Also replace gedit with kedit if running Kubuntu instead of Ubuntu.[4~"
[18:20] <jussi01> what is kedit??
[18:20] <jussi01> heh
[18:21] <nalioth> IE is an insult
[18:21] <stdin> "sudo gedit", why oh why oh why
[18:22] <TheSheep> sudo ed
[18:22] <Pici> sudo cat "text" >>
[18:22] <jussi01> ok, so can we change the factoid now?
[18:22] <jussi01> please...
[18:23] <ubotu> In ubotu, jpatrick said: !ie4linux is <reply>evil -.-
[18:23]  * jussi01 whack an 's' in that
[18:23] <nalioth> evil and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking about it
[18:25]  * jdong wonders if the wording "In ubotu" should be tweaked...
[18:34] <Seveas> :)
[18:34] <jussi01> gah, I hate launchpad
[18:35]  * no0tic quotes jussi01
[18:35] <jussi01> I can never make it do what I want...
[18:39] <jdong> jussi01: we should start a "I hate launchpad" team on LP
[18:39] <jdong> jussi01: I'm sure scott K would join us too :D
[18:39] <jussi01> jdong: lol, probably...
[18:40]  * jussi01 is looking for a needs packaging bug to fix... something simple... :D
[18:42] <PriceChild> I have decided, I shall now be acronymanonising (yes with a "j" jdong) "fails to work" for kicks.
[18:42] <PriceChild> *with a "s"
[18:43]  * jdong sees jussi01 is looking for work and pulls out his tomboy notes
[18:43] <jdong> jussi01: needs-packaging: Eclipse 3.3
[18:43] <jdong> *runs away*
[18:44] <jdong> there's only like 150 patches in the 3.2 we currently have ;-)
[18:44] <LjL> jdong: diff, merge, compile, delete line where compiler gives error, repeat the process until compile succeeds
[18:45] <LjL> it doesn't have to actually work
[18:45] <LjL> few packages do that
[18:45] <jdong> LjL: you stole that out of the Gentoo Reiser4 Patching guide without a GFDL header!
[18:45] <jdong> ;-)
[18:45] <LjL> whops :)
[18:45] <jdong> there was, oddly, a forum thread on gentoo about that
[18:46] <jussi01> PriceChild: please op me so I can kick jdong !! please!!
[18:46] <jdong> how someone just "randomly edited" a line in the reiser4 patch giving an error and dropped 5 hunks
[18:46] <PriceChild> I didn't do it.
[18:46] <jdong> ow
[18:46] <jdong>  /load autorejoin.pl
[18:46] <jdong> :P
[18:46] <PriceChild> bad bad jdong!
[18:46] <jdong> PriceChild: I don't even think the irssi script works
[18:54] <jpatrick> +1 the anti-LP talk
[19:41] <ubotu> DRebellion called the ops in #ubuntu (stumped)
[20:03] <PriceChild> ikonia, pm please?
[20:04] <ikonia> PriceChild: always
[20:04] <ikonia> ooh
[20:04] <ikonia> sorry lag
[20:05] <PriceChild> no probs :)
[20:50] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[20:50] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[20:59] <ikonia> there seems to be an unusually high ammount of persistant troublesome users in #ubuntu for some reason
[21:06] <jussi01> ikonia: yeah, weird, I have had nothing but red from there
[21:07] <ikonia> jussi01: I may pop out for a while, it's crazy silly at the moment
[21:07] <jussi01> ikonia: I dont blame you
[21:08] <ikonia> much higher than average nusances
[21:08] <dhgwill> mmm, i think i can go back to #ubuntu now
[21:08] <dhgwill> i've been tested and i didn't get kicked off the network
[21:08] <dhgwill> nm
[21:08] <dhgwill> fixed by the bot
[21:09] <LjL> ... why would the bot be there in the first place
[21:09] <ikonia> in where ?
[21:14] <LjL> ikonia: -read-topic
[21:14] <ikonia> LjL: I can't see anything on the bot in there
[21:14] <ikonia> am I missing something obvious ?
[21:15] <ikonia> oooh
[21:15] <ikonia> in -read-topic
[21:15] <ikonia> sorry, I'm being stupid
[21:16] <jussi01> run!!!! its ompaul :P
[21:16] <LjL> ikonia: the guy requested an exploit test, which succeeded (after a couple of failed attempts...), but the bot tells them to "wait a minute or two" (made it easier to code).
[21:16] <LjL> i thought it was clear that meant that you should, well, wait a minute or two
[21:16] <ikonia> LjL: I-miss-read what you said, sorry forget it, it was obvious, I miss-read
[21:16] <ompaul> jussi01, run faster, my on join lag is disappearing
[21:17] <jussi01> ompaul: lol
[21:53] <ompaul> LjL, you are a bad influence
[21:53] <ompaul> LjL, very very bad influence ohh yeah
[21:53] <LjL> ompaul: i what?
[21:54] <ompaul> LjL, I just helped someone in #gentoo
[21:54] <LjL> hardly my fault is it :P
[21:54] <LjL> well i did that too once
[21:54] <ompaul> LjL, hehe
[21:55] <ompaul> LjL, I just saw someone having a bad day with NTP
[21:55] <LjL> perhaps he thought it was another day
[21:55] <LjL> (given NTP wasn't working)
[21:56] <ompaul> hahah
[21:56] <ompaul> damn geek jokes
[21:57] <LjL> yeah sorry mine aren't particularly sharp even in the context of the geek jokes category
[22:24] <PriceChild> Hello there blaker.
[22:24] <blaker> yes?
[22:24] <PriceChild> blaker, do you understand why I muted you two hours ago in #ubuntu?
[22:24] <blaker> no
[22:24] <blaker> i do not
[22:25] <blaker> it didn't really bother me, if it did i would have come right back with a new moniker and hostname...
[22:25] <jussi01> oops
[22:25] <PriceChild> So do you think that threatening to evade bans "unless you want to ban 2 million people in the *.ri.cox.net hostname pool, i will be back when i see fit"
[22:25] <PriceChild> is clever.... or do you think it would have been wise to try and discuss the situation?
[22:26] <blaker> i would actually be rather pleased if i got an entire state banned from the network
[22:26] <PriceChild> Why though?
[22:26] <PriceChild> What on earth is the point?
[22:26] <blaker> lulz
[22:27] <mc44> PriceChild: psychology of trolls is an interesting way to go mad, PriceChild ;)
[22:27] <blaker> standing up to authority and spitting in its face
[22:27] <PriceChild> blaker, I placed a mute on you rather than a kickban, because i didn't want to get rid of you. I wanted to talk about the situation.
[22:27] <PriceChild> I don't think its in anyone's interest to think of the #ubuntu ops as the "authority".
[22:28] <blaker> what's to discuss? i'm trolling in #ubuntu, occasionally looking for legitimate support, but for the most part i'm just a racist prick looking to annoy people.
[22:28] <PriceChild> When has anyone ever accused you of that?
[22:28] <blaker> i don't know
[22:29] <PriceChild> Ah, I wasn't up to date with what happenned in -offtopic.
[22:30] <blaker> what happened?
[22:30] <PriceChild> You know full well what happenned. Do you really want logs./
[22:30] <PriceChild> ?
[22:30] <blaker> i used the "n-word"
[22:30] <blaker> is that what you are referring to?
[22:32] <PriceChild> No, rather what else you said in that sentence.
[22:32] <PriceChild> blaker, I have no idea why you are doing what you are doing.
[22:32] <PriceChild> I am sure that you must have better things to be doing.
[22:32] <LjL> heck
[22:32] <LjL> didn't y'all know it's the "make a troll happy" day today?
[22:33] <LjL> keep up to date
[22:33] <mc44> hah
[22:33] <mc44> no one likes rhode Island anyway ;)
[22:33]  * PriceChild watches #ubuntu
[22:33] <LjL> mc44: no one likes the UK for that matter
[22:33] <mc44> :(
[22:33] <PriceChild> meh there's only a couple ri,ri,cox.net in there and one of them has crack in their name
 i may be back in #ubuntu later with a few bots =]
[22:34] <LjL> PriceChild: a couple?
[22:35] <PriceChild> ok didn't check properly
[22:43] <LjL> PriceChild: anyway his host might be less dynamic than he wants us to believe
[22:44] <PriceChild> haven't seen any ri's
[22:45] <PriceChild> he's still online anyway
[22:49] <PriceChild> LjL, fireman?
[22:50] <LjL> uh... that's not ri
[22:50] <PriceChild> i know but its wierd
[22:50] <PriceChild> and blaker's still on
[23:41] <konqui-89> Hi, I understand the mishap we had earlier probably sounds incredibly disrespectful and juvinile but I beg you to please forgive me, as I promise I will not bring up off-topic conversations anymore. I have no problem with obeying channel policies, I just felt a bit "trolled" upon at the time. But I honestly understand that distrobution-specific channels cannot have random people coming asking questions about other distros... that
[23:41] <konqui-89> would be extremely chaotic.
[23:42] <konqui-89> Could you please grant me access into the ubuntu channel again? As I am persuing business OJT with linux(specifically ubuntu) and I need to learn how to fix problems that arise.
[23:43] <PriceChild> Which channel konqui-89?
[23:43] <konqui-89> ^thats a huge reason I was so upset about my ban from a great source of support
[23:43] <konqui-89> #ubuntu
[23:44] <PriceChild> aha now I remember you
[23:45] <konqui-89> Thats probably a bad thing.
[23:47] <konqui-89> What are the chances of my re-entry to ubuntu?
[23:47] <PriceChild> konqui-89, Do you use any other nicknames on irc?
[23:48] <konqui-89> I was probably using Pandab34R or PandabeaR
[23:48] <PriceChild> Ok.
[23:52] <PriceChild> one minute more sorry
[23:53] <konqui-89> Its ok
[23:53] <Seveas> PriceChild, he's not coming back yet
[23:53] <Seveas> PriceChild, and likely not for a while
[23:54] <PriceChild> !guidelines | konqui-89 (I suggest you read these some time)
[23:54] <ubotu> konqui-89 (I suggest you read these some time): The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[23:54] <konqui-89> Thanks man, really appreciate it. Finally get this sound under control :)
[23:54] <PriceChild> konqui-89, I haven't removed the ban.
[23:55] <konqui-89> My mistake. I thought you had.
[23:56] <konqui-89> Seveas, may I ask why I wont be back for a while - likely?
[23:57] <Seveas> we don't appreciate if people insult others after being generally unhelpful, disrespectful and offtopic
[23:58] <Seveas> and since you've done all 4, we don't appreciate you :)


[07:51] <andrejz> hello dpm!
[07:52] <andrejz> do you have time for the bug report template?
[07:52] <andrejz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Universe_Translations_in_LP
[07:52] <dpm> hi andrejz, good morning :)
[07:52] <dpm> andrejz, probably not today, but might have some over the weekend
[07:54] <andrejz> i just need a starting point and then maybe i will be able to continue myself. I am not sure about the technicalities
[07:54] <andrejz> so i am not sure what to put in
[07:55] <dpm> andrejz, ah, wait, I can probably send you an e-mail with some details, give me a minute
[07:56] <andrejz> that would be great
[08:06] <dpm> andrejz, ok, I found the instructions and saw that it wouldn't take me too long, so I've just added them on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Universe_Translations_in_LP - I've updated my action on Trello, so it's over to you now :)
[08:11] <andrejz> ok, i guess i will manually copy and paste this text into a bug report for each package and then add those to the wiki
[08:12] <dpm> andrejz, I've noticed gdm is on the list. I'm not sure I'd add it, as I'm not too sure how well maintained it is now that we use lightdm
[08:13] <andrejz> also chromium is already translatable, isn't it?
[08:14] <andrejz> seems to be
[08:14] <andrejz> https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser
[08:15] <dpm> andrejz, yes, but that one definitely needs to be removed from the list, as it doesn't use gettext and we cannot ship its translations in language packs :(
[08:17] <andrejz> currently launchpad package search are timing out on me but i will try to get it mostly done over the weekend and deal with additionally added packages early next week
[08:53] <artnay> andrejz: chromium's translations aren't maintained (on LP) anymore. I don't know where the translations are being done, probably Google's translators take care of them. see http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=55788
[08:54] <artnay> https://launchpad.net/chromium-browser should mention that the translations from LP won't be used. or the translations should be disabled. I see tens of languages are still being translated... for no good reason.
[08:55] <artnay> really waste of effort
[08:57] <dpm> artnay, that bug date is previous to chromium being translatable in Launchpad. Translations in Launchpad were set up by a community member, but unfortunately he's moved on until then. They can be used in the Ubuntu Chromium package, so it makes sense to have them there, but there is no one that takes care to send them upstream, as it used to happen in the past
[08:58] <artnay> dpm: but the latest reply from evan isn't.
[08:58] <artnay> dpm: and I'm not even sure if the translations are being used in ubuntu's current chromium packages.
[08:58] <dpm> artnay, the latest reply from evan does not offer any context at all
[08:59] <dpm> I've just pinged the current chromium maintainer to make sure, let's see if we can find out more...
[08:59] <artnay> dpm: and the dates at https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser don't suggest the template is even maintained anymore.
[09:00] <andrejz> i think in general it would be a good idea to announce this changes
[09:01] <andrejz> there was a big announcement when chromium was available for translations in LP but now when it seems it's not being sent upstream anymore it wasn't really clear (or at least I didn't know it until artnay pointed it out a few minutes ago)
[09:02] <artnay> andrejz: more importantly, the template isn't updated from upstream source
[09:02] <dpm> andrejz, yes, I agree, but I can't have an eye on everything :) I also got notice quite a while after fta quit maintaining the chromium package, and would have appreciated a short heads up message to translators
[09:03] <artnay> well the import/export system was done by fta, now it probably only needs a maintainer
[09:04] <artnay> maybe that should be pointed out at the bug I linked above
[09:08] <andrejz> sure dpm
[09:08] <andrejz> i understand your point. But maybe in the future if someone steps up for mainting package like fta did we can ask them to let us know if/when the things change
[09:09] <andrejz> noboby is able to keep an eye on everything so the developers themselves should let us know
[09:09] <dpm> yeah, but that's what we generally expect from all contributors. Even if it's a volunteer contribution, it's ok to step down, but gracefully
[09:10] <dpm> artnay, +1, as usual, it just needs someone who cares for the project to step up and take action
[09:17] <dpm> I'm talking with micahg right now, and it seems we might be able to put the Chromium infrastructure back in place, although there is no ETA yet
[09:18] <dpm> I've added an action on the Trello board for me to check
[09:25] <dpm> andrejz, sent you and mvo an e-mail to start the ball rolling on universe translations for Synaptic
[09:33] <andrejz> yeah i saw it
[09:33] <andrejz> thanks
[09:33] <andrejz> you think we should first mail the maintainers or start with bug reports?
[09:45] <dpm> andrejz, I think I would talk to a few maintainers first, to get a feel for what they think. I remember a while ago we started filing bugs for all packages which needed to include translations before NonLanguagePackDeadline without having talked to maintainers first, and most of them got rejected, which was a bit of a wasted effort. I'd like to avoid repeating that again.
[09:45] <andrejz> ok, makes sense
[09:46] <dpm> Do you think you could find out the maintainers for the packages and update the list? Then we can perhaps contact 3 or 4 and decide on the next step
[09:46] <andrejz> sure i can do that but currently Launchpad search is timeouting on me
[09:47] <andrejz> when i try to perform a package search so i don't know when launchpad will allow me to do it
[09:47] <dpm> ah, no worries. When LP is back for you, here's the URL where you can find out about the maintainers:
[09:48] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<nameofthepackage>
[09:48] <dpm> e.g.
[09:48] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic
[09:49] <andrejz> cool, i will do it over the weekend
[09:49] <dpm> If the maintainer is ubuntu-core-dev, you might have to dig out a bit deeper and look at the changelogs for the latest uploaders, e.g.
[09:49] <dpm> (just click on the package link on that page ^)
[09:49] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/0.75.7
[10:00] <andrejz> hm
[10:01] <andrejz> for some packages it's not very clear who is maintainer (for example xfce4-power-manager) - but in this case i guess i can contact people substribed to all it's bugs instead
[10:06] <dpm> andrejz, you can look at the changelogs as pointed out above ^
[10:06] <dpm> e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/1.0.10-5ubuntu2
[10:07] <dpm> or look for the Xubuntu project lead
[10:07] <andrejz> yeah i will do that
[10:08] <dpm> cool
[10:08] <andrejz> need to work real job thing a bit right now, but will do it over the weekend
[10:08] <andrejz> dpm i also sent you a bit unrelated email and would appriciate it if you look at it when you have time
[10:08] <dpm> thanks for your work on this. I think translators (and users!) will love to have those apps translatable
[10:09] <andrejz> indeed
[10:09] <andrejz> that's why we are doing it
[10:09] <dpm> andrejz, ok cool, got your e-mail and will reply to it
[10:11] <andrejz> thanks dpm, i know odds are against me but felt like i needed to ask
[10:15] <dpm> no worries :), I've quickly replied to some of it in private
[10:55] <dpm> andrejz, btw, good work on Slovenian translations. As you're at 100%, I usually use your stats to see if there has been any user interface freeze break :)
[10:55] <dpm> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/stats/precise/sl
[11:01] <TLE> dpm: how is it, are the items on the list on your translation stat web app sorted in the same way as in lp, i.e. in some sort of prioritized order?
[11:02] <andrejz> TLE
[11:02] <andrejz> no
[11:02] <andrejz> it's in order of remaining strings i think
[11:02] <andrejz> at least on the main one
[11:02] <TLE> D'oh!
[11:03] <TLE> ahh yes it would seems so, I've actually got en education with in the natural sciences, so don't tell anybody about this ;)
[11:03] <andrejz> dpm, yes i commited translations from upstream gnome immediately after string freeze and it helped a lot
[11:03] <andrejz> TLE your secret is safe with me;) (but not with IRC logs, sadly )
[11:03] <dpm> TLE, as andrejz is saying, right now they are prioritized by untranslated. I'm planning to sort them on priority (it's relatively trivial), but I haven't found the time yet and there are other things I want to get addressed before that, so it's a bit on the bottom of my priorities list
[11:04] <TLE> andrejz: do you know when we can expect them to trickle down there on their own, the translations from official gnome release I mean?
[11:04] <andrejz> they won't
[11:04] <TLE> they won't??????
[11:04] <andrejz> according to the docs team
[11:05] <dpm> I think you guys are talking about different things :)
[11:05] <andrejz> a couple of days ago they said they don't have the infrstructure to commit translations
[11:05] <TLE> yeah, I'm talking about just the GUI translations from gnome 3.4
[11:05] <TLE> when they will have arrived inlp
[11:05] <dpm> they should be there already or about to, I think
[11:05] <dpm> packages were uploaded already iirc
[11:05] <dpm> for 3.4.0
[11:06] <TLE> greeeat stuf, has to do a motivational email to the translation team to keep pushing on ubuntu how that gnome is out the door
[11:06] <andrejz> TLE those are in for a while now
[11:06] <dpm> as per the ubuntu-docs, what andrejz means is that the ubuntu-docs team is not using the GNOME docs translations
[11:06] <TLE> ah ok
[11:06] <andrejz> they used them only the first
[11:07] <andrejz> first time
[11:07] <dpm> I'd like to help them, but I don't actually understand how they merge the content from gnome
[11:07] <andrejz> but are now only updating .pot using strings from upstream
[11:07] <andrejz> dpm it's trivial
[11:07] <andrejz> at least manually
[11:07] <andrejz> you take gnome .po file
[11:07] <andrejz> add lanunchpad header stuff so launchpad will swallow it and upload
[11:09] <dpm> yeah, what I mean is that I don't know which PO file or files to fetch. If it's just one PO file, the docs team should simply be able to fetch and commit them, but I suspect it's not that easy
[11:09] <andrejz> it's just one po file
[11:10] <dpm> do you know which one is it? (I haven't been translating gnome docs for quite a while)
[11:10] <andrejz> http://l10n.gnome.org/module/gnome-user-docs/
[11:10] <dpm> oh, so it just needs a script to:
[11:11] <dpm> - Fetch translations
[11:11] <dpm> Err, I should be more detailed:
[11:11] <dpm> - Fetch upstream translations from the right branch on http://l10n.gnome.org/module/gnome-user-docs/
[11:12] <dpm> - Merge them with those in the lp:ubuntu-docs branch
[11:13] <andrejz> that would be greast
[11:13] <andrejz> i mean i can commit them but i prefer if i don't have to do that. and some people don't know about this
[11:13] <andrejz> i know a russian translator was frustrated about this for 11.10
[11:14] <dpm> yeah, I remember, frustrated is to put it mildly, if I remember correctly the amount of swear words he used ;)
[11:15] <dpm> it should be trivial to write such a script, but I most definitely won't have the time to help on this this cycle
[11:15] <dpm> In case there are any takers I've put it as an idea on the Trello board
[11:15] <dpm> https://trello.com/board/translations-team/4f621c87861db54230b9ca39
[11:15] <andrejz> maybe we can post it on translators mailing list if there is any taker
[11:16] <TLE> this is for the ubuntu help translation, right?
[11:17] <dpm> yes
[11:17] <TLE> but, ok, stupid question, is the Ubuntu Help based on the content of the gnome docs?
[11:17] <TLE> gnome-user-doc I should say
[11:18] <dpm> TLE, it's not a stupid question. It is based on gnome's docs, plus additional Ubuntu-specific content
[11:18] <dpm> and some branding changes
[11:18] <TLE> ok, because otherwise, just blindly importing string might not be a good idea
[11:19] <dpm> TLE, I agree, that's why I mentioned the PO files should be merged ^
[11:20] <dpm> A python script that accepts a parameter for the upstream branch to fetch, checks out the right lp:ubuntu-docs branch and that calls msgmerge properly should probably do
[11:20] <andrejz> TLE
[11:20] <andrejz> i am translating both
[11:21] <andrejz> and they are essentially the same
[11:21] <dpm> andrejz, actually, that's a good idea. Would you be up for sending that e-mail to the list?
[11:21] <TLE> dpm: agreed
[11:21] <andrejz> just activities overview is changed with the dash
[11:21] <andrejz> and some other UI specific changes
[11:22] <andrejz> i manually uploaded gnome help and number on unstranslated strings went from 840 to 250
[11:22] <andrejz> so it's definetly worth it
[11:29] <dpm> Oh, btw, I finally got round to create a proper project for the translations stats instead of the code living in a +junk branch. Feel free to submit bugs, code and (once I've enabled them) translations!
[11:29] <dpm>     https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations-stats
[11:34] <dpm> ok, going for a break, brb
[11:40] <artnay> hmm, I wonder if bug 968290 was actually fixed (to use translated theme names)
[11:41] <TLE> dpm: when you return, what subset of the packages in precise in launchpad are in your list?
[12:09] <dpm> TLE, it's explained on the link at the bottom of the stats page -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Stats#UbuntuTranslationStatistics - in short, I'm filtering out anything that's not shipped by default on the ISO and anything below a certain priority threshold (I think it's 3499)
[12:21] <dpm> artnay, I'm not sure. Seeing the changelog, it seems only the (default) string has been marked for translations. Please feel free to report your findings in the bug
[12:35] <andrejz> dpm, sent emails to xubuntu and lubuntu developers
[12:40] <dpm> cool, thanks andrejz!
[12:42] <vibhavp> If I create a locaized CD image in a PPA, where will it be stored?
[12:46] <dpm> hi vibhavp, every LoCo team should be responsible for storing it for now
[12:46] <dpm> check out the FAQ on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/LocalizedImagesRollout
[12:54] <andrejz> dpm is it possible you update the contributors list before the release
[12:55] <andrejz> we just got some new translators and i know they would feel very bad if they weren't on the list
[12:55] <dpm> andrejz, definitely, that is the plan. The current list was only a proof-of-concept to see if everything worked, and it will be updated before release.
[12:56] <andrejz> ok
[12:56] <dpm> It's the final unchecked point of my TODO for that on the translations Trello board, so don't worry, it will be updated :)
[13:05] <artnay> dpm: hey, could you import the latest Finnish ubuntu-docs translations to http://<IP_ADDRESS>/index.html ? thanks!
[13:07] <artnay> dpm: can't see the latest revision here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/gnome-control-center/precise/changes - I'll check it out later and reopen the bug if needed
[13:15] <dpm> artnay, sure, can you send the latest PO to me?, or shall I just get it from bzr?
[13:22] <artnay> dpm: I sent the link to your ubuntu.com address
[13:22] <TLE> dpm: thanks
[13:23] <dpm> artnay, cool, thanks. If it's just a url, feel free to paste it here too
[13:25] <dpm> nevermind, got it now
[13:27] <dpm> ok, building pages now, it will be online in ~5 min
[13:34] <dpm> artnay, updated -> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[13:37] <artnay> dpm: thanks
[13:39] <vibhavp> dpm: I meant , if I build the CD Image using a PPA where will the image be stored
[13:40] <vibhavp> I am building it currently, and will soon store it on my server
[13:40] <dpm> vibhavp, ah, I don't know the exact location off the top of my head, but it will be a .iso file in one of the directories of the build
[13:41] <vibhavp> ok
[13:41] <vibhavp> Then Ill store it on my server
[13:41] <dpm> vibhavp, cool, let me know how it goes. If you need more technical details, you can also talk to pitti on the #ubuntu-desktop IRC channel
[13:42] <vibhavp> sure
[13:46] <sagaci> yeah you just get an iso file in the directory you build it in
[17:35] <kelemengabor> artnay: you are right about bug 968290, only the "default" string appeared on LP


[00:01] <Bashing-om> !ppa | plt2 Looked here ?
[00:40] <plt2> I am getting this error ./snmptrapd start
[00:40] <plt2> ./snmptrapd: 10: .: Can't open /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions
[00:40] <plt2> is snmptrapd boxtrapper?
[00:46] <Bashing-om> !info snmptrapd jammy | plt2
[00:52] <plt2> It has nothing to do with boxtraper?
[00:53] <plt2> !info exmin
[00:53] <plt2> !info shell
[00:53] <plt2> !info pop3
[00:54] <plt2> !info sendmail
[00:54] <plt2> ty
[01:53] <devslash> I am getting an error "no valid A records found for devslash.com" when I try to set up Nginx Proxy Manager to generate ssl certificates using letsencrypt with my domain that is hosted by GoDaddy. I have a wildcard A record on it. The certbot request is using DNS challenge. I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, but I already have another reverse proxy manager that I'm using called Traefik which I have shut off but have previously used with this same
[01:53] <devslash> domain to request LetsEncrypt SSL certificates
[02:24] <ravage> devslash: *. a records do not cover the domain itself
[02:25] <ravage> You have to add that separately
[02:29] <devslash> what do i need to add
[02:33] <ravage> An A record for devslash.com
[02:33] <devslash> pointing to my home ip
[02:33] <devslash> ?
[02:34] <ravage> If that is where you want to get the certificate then yes
[02:34] <devslash> i dont think so
[02:34] <devslash> my domain is with godaddy
[02:34] <ravage> But you can't get wildcard certificates that way
[02:35] <ravage> That only works via DNS challenge
[02:35] <devslash> my current reverse proxy works fine with a wildcard cert A name record
[02:35] <devslash> using a wildcard cert does?
[02:36] <ravage> certbot or acme.sh should have plugins for godaddy
[02:36] <devslash> have you ever used nginx proxy manager
[02:37] <ravage> Yes
[02:37] <ravage> Well I used nginx as a proxy server
[02:37] <ravage> No idea what that manager is or does
[02:38] <devslash> https://nginxproxymanager.com/
[02:40] <ravage> I think I prefer to do that myself
[02:41] <ravage> This is also very off topic for this room. Maybe you should ask for help through that application's support channels
[03:19] <Guest68> Greetings, I am getting this error https://imgur.com/a/9dDWR2m Don't know what to do
[03:21] <rbox> and when you do what it says...
[03:21] <Guest68> I am naive, should I do it?
[03:24] <Guest68> running apt-get doesn't seem to do anything special
[03:29] <Guest68> When I try clicking anything after firefox it says snap has no update available https://imgur.com/a/KUt2SCA
[03:31] <mybalzitch> Guest68: try clicking it with firefox closed
[03:31] <Guest68> Yeah for firefox it says that, but for others it says no updates are available
[03:33] <Guest68> weird now they are gone
[04:30] <D_A_N> if my usb has 1mb of unallocated space at the end is it still considered single-sector? https://i.gyazo.com/cdcbdcc414e330c2e09d4a9c480da93f.png https://i.gyazo.com/aeb54250d921e4f93f4a7f2eea9358e8.png
[04:33] <D_A_N> using gparted, can't seem to get rid of the 1mb unallocated at the end, not sure if it's a big deal for the purpose of updating bios
[05:39] <alkisg> D_A_N: it's fine, gparted is trying to make the disk as compatible as possible
[06:14] <sammy12> Hi if you install windows on unsupported hardware will it stop updates?
[06:15] <tomreyn> sammy12: Hi. Do you have an Ubuntu support question?
[06:16] <sammy12> Well I'm annoyed I can't upgrade windows on my laptop so I'm considering using Ubuntu
[06:16] <sammy12> Just nervous
[06:18] <tomreyn> When using Ubuntu, you can install Ubuntu updates as long as the Ubuntu release is supported for this hardware architecture.
[06:18] <tomreyn> (there is also #windows)
[06:45] <bodiccea_> kernel is being "kept back" when doing "apt-get upgrade". I think I did force an install recently, for the exact same reason, so current one may be considered manually installed. What should I do (no force install) to sole this issue ?
[06:49] <tomreyn> just running "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" is likely not enough, you'll occasionally want to run "apt-get dist-upgrade", too.
[06:50] <tomreyn> what you will need to to do to fix the force-install you did will depend on the exact command you ran there, and the state of packages at the time.
[06:51] <tomreyn> dpkg --force-... options should not be used unless you know exactly what the outcome will be.
[07:00] <bodiccea_> I did not use "dpkg --force" but maybe "apt-get install" when I got the same issue last week, which could have caused current issue.
[07:34] <bodiccea_> Maybe setting some packages as non manually installed could help ? or not ?
[07:34] <bodiccea_> If yes, how to do this ?
[07:35] <weedmic> bodiccea_: before advancing to the next version, did you try to update/perfect the version you have not, fix broken, autoremove, etc?
[07:57] <bodiccea_> weedmic, yes... I did not change version (currently 23.04), nothing more that using "software updater" or apt update/upgrade
[07:58] <bodiccea_> and as I said maybe an "apt install" recently when I got some "kept back" packages for kernel.
[08:00] <bodiccea_> I can add that I got the same issue on my laptop (23.04 too) that I use from time to time, and got also a "kept back" for kernel.
[08:01] <weedmic> i may not fully understand the term "kept back"
[08:01] <bodiccea_> me too :-(
[08:02] <ogra> kep back means a dependency is not ready yet ...
[08:02] <weedmic> can you use something like pastebin and post the actual message?
[08:02] <weedmic> oic, and fix broken did not help?
[08:03] <bodiccea_> or maybe "manually" install prevents "auto" upg ?
[08:03] <bodiccea_> According to synaptic, no broken package.
[08:06] <bodiccea_> weedmic: https://dpaste.org/kZuba
[08:07] <alkisg> bodiccea_: don't use apt upgrade, which doesn't install new packages. Use apt full-upgrade, which does
[08:09] <bodiccea_> hmmm... Is "linux-generic" a new package ? Being "kept back" means already installed, no ?
[08:10] <alkisg> bodiccea_: linux-generic is a metapackage which pulls different packages each time
[08:10] <alkisg> So linux-generic isn't a problem, but its dependencies are
[08:10] <ogra> linux-generic is a metapackage, it does not contain anything but only has dependencies on the latest kernel
[08:11] <alkisg> E.g. you may have linux-modules-nvidia-470-6.2.0-23-generic installed; apt upgrade won't allow linux-modules-nvidia-470-6.2.0-24-generic (24 vs 23) to get installed
[08:11] <alkisg> In general don't ever use apt upgrade unless you really know why you want to use it
[08:13] <bodiccea_> Do you mean apt update+apt upgrade is not the normal way to go ?
[08:13] <P1ro> Hi, im trying to figure or find best way to get a up-to-date backups of my systems, so far im trying to make a rsync script to send over ssh, what others others/tools can be recommended? thanks.
[08:16] <alkisg> Yes
[08:16] <alkisg> The normal way is: apt update; apt full-upgrade
[08:18] <bodiccea_> P1ro, I use an rsync-based script, which allows daily/weekly/yearly backups, using symlinks for unchanged files: https://github.com/braoult/Tools/blob/master/bash/sync.sh
[08:19] <P1ro> thanks bodiccea_ going to check
[08:24] <ravage> P1ro: https://www.borgbackup.org/
[08:25] <ravage> also https://restic.net/ seems to be popular
[08:25] <P1ro> thanks ravage going to check these!!
[08:29] <toddc> some updates are Phased in also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhasedUpdates that may also cause kept back
[08:35] <weedmic> bodiccea_: haven't read past your post yet, but... you need to close synaptic before you run the command, however, when you installed nvidia, did you tell synaptic to prevent changes?  if so, that might be what you want.  fyi I do that on opensuse mahcines. - ok readin gon
[08:36] <weedmic> for ubuntu, i generally use synaptic for my upgrades unless I am adding something not int he library.
[08:43] <joo> Dear Diary. It is now day 14 since upgrading to ubuntu 23 and still no improvement in the firefox file save dialog or nautilus performance.
[08:53] <joo> ofcause it was the snap version of firefox
[08:54] <ravage> joo: "/query joo" seems to be the better place for that
[09:12] <hsiktas[m]> In https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zram-config is there a way to increase the zram size without directly editing the `/usr/bin/init-zram-swapping` shell script?
[09:13] <hsiktas[m]> I would like to increase its size to my RAM size like Fedora did: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Scale_ZRAM_to_full_memory_size
[09:24] <bodiccea_> weedmic, I am unsure about what I did with nvidia drivers... How could I make some package become "not manually installed" ?
[09:32] <elliot_> nickserver aa
[09:32] <mawk> hi
[09:33] <mawk> I'm trying to uninstall libpcsclite1, and this happens: https://bpa.st/raw/UX3A
[09:33] <mawk> it wants to remove a whole lot of packages
[09:33] <mawk> it let me remote pcscd fine, but libpcsclite1 it does that
[09:33] <mawk> weird
[09:34] <mawk> is it because of the line "Task: ubuntu-desktop-minimal, ubuntu-desktop, ..." in the deb package metadata?
[09:34] <mawk> when I check the things it wants to remove none have a dependency on libpcsclite1
[09:35] <mawk> I'm running 23.04
[09:36] <ogra> that lib is used by the login manager (gdm) to allow it to log in via smart cards
[09:37] <mawk> aaaa
[09:37] <mawk> so if I want to replace it I can either 1) mark it on hold and divert the .so or 2) make my own .deb package and install it over
[09:37] <mawk> right?
[09:38] <artjom> wow irc is still alive. hello
[09:38] <mawk> but if it's used by gdm for smartcard login it should also have a dependency on pcscd, it doesn't work without as far as I know
[09:43] <PvtJoker> I have just installed Kubuntu 23.04 - is this channel appropriate for discussing Kubuntu?
[09:44] <artjom> idk
[09:45] <PvtJoker> I am wondering what is a good way to get MS OFfice running on Ubuntu or Kubuntu if anyone could point me in the right direction
[09:45] <ogra> PvtJoker, for sure ... though there might be people in #kubuntu that will know specific desktop bits better
[09:45] <PvtJoker> ah thank you ogra :)
[09:45] <artjom> you can join kubuntu channel by typing /join #kubuntu
[09:46] <PvtJoker> I'm just really excited to have Linux on my desktop again. Pardon my enthusiasm. :)
[09:46] <ogra> is libreoffice not sufficient ? it alows editing and creating MSOffice docs
[09:46] <PvtJoker> oh I will try that. I have many .docx and was not sure about compatibility
[09:48] <artjom> i dont think you can install ms office
[09:48] <mawk> .docx is better specified than .doc
[09:48] <mawk> so it should work just fine with libreoffice
[09:48] <mawk> provided the document doesn't do weird VisualBasic stuff
[09:49] <PvtJoker> that is good to know
[09:49] <ogra> mawk, looking closer, there seems to be a wpasupplicant dependency too for that lib (not sure why though) ...
[09:50] <mawk> ah, probably for 802.1X authentication
[09:50] <mawk> thanks
[09:50] <mawk> I diverted the .so
[09:51] <mawk> with: sudo dpkg-divert --divert /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/x-libpcsclite.so.1.0.0.distrib  --rename --add /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpcsclite.so.1.0.0
[09:51] <mawk> and it seems to work
[09:51] <mawk> I had to add the x- in front otherwise ldconfig would still pick it up and make a symlink to it
[09:51] <ogra> just dont forget about it ... i.e. in case you see weird behavior in a few monts
[09:51] <ogra> 🙂
[09:51] <mawk> yeah
[09:52] <mawk> well I wanted to build and install that lib manually, so all should work fine for the rest of time
[10:00] <mawk> yes the pcsc daemon works perfectly now
[10:00] <mawk> now I have version 2.0.0 instead of the very ancient 1.9.9
[10:09] <weedmic> joo: perhaps you are using snap firefox - have you thought of removing that and using the full firefox package?  I don't know anything about nautilus though.  but "snap list" will list your snap apps.
[10:09] <weedmic> very next post was snap - nvm
[10:10] <weedmic> i'll see what the ubuntu term is, but in opensuse it is called "taboo" - the item will not be touched for updating.  often used for nouveau which ruins nvidia.  bodiccea_
[10:11] <weedmic> bodiccea_: "lock at current version"
[10:12] <weedmic> PvtJoker: install apps via muon or synaptic for ease and ensuring they are complete - or apt if they are not in the list.
[10:13] <PvtJoker> weedmic muon eh? I will read up on that. Thanks!
[10:16] <beatzz> sorry all, I'm working on my hexchat settings
[10:16] <beatzz> for the join/parts*
[10:17] <weedmic> PvtJoker: or synaptic - i always forget which one comes with ubuntu (and now have it in my phone) - I always think it's called aptitude, but that is a big mistake in my memory
[10:25] <elsheepo> can you unban beatzz, thats me on my server
[10:25] <elsheepo> I removed the channel from autojoin until I get nickserv figured out
[10:41] <elsheepo> thank you
[10:56] <u8353v[m]> I need to have ubuntu/windows 10 dual boot.
[10:56] <u8353v[m]> Can i do it with the already installed ubuntu, or better install ubuntu again with manual partitioning?
[10:56] <u8353v[m]> I am following this tutorial.
[10:56] <u8353v[m]> https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2023/04/how-to-install-ubuntu-2304-lunar-lobster-with-dualboot-external-drive-and-uefi-setup.html
[10:58] <ravage> please dont cross post
[11:01] <weedmic> u8353v[m]: as I understand it, windows needs to have a piece of the boot sector so most people recommend installing the windows first.  however, bearing that in mine - I have heard it is possible to do it after ubuntu was installed, but you then need to manually boot into ubuntu, reinstall grub, edit it, etc.  so to put is simple, yes, install windows first.  if you like the linux u have now, clonezilla it to a file on a different hdd, install the windows,
[11:01] <weedmic> then put back the linux sectors, then setup grub.
[11:02] <weedmic> could be wrong though - i only use windows inside virtualbox/vmware/esxi (and I really don't like it)
 "u8353v: as I understand it..." <- the linux i have now can be replicated in 5 mins so i wont waste time with that 🙂
[11:14] <u8353v[m]> Windows>create partition for linux>install ubuntu in it>done!
[11:16] <Gabrieltz> hello, Since i upgraded from 20.04 on a blade server, it appears that the qla2xxx driver fails all paths in less than one hour, I have tried  kernels 5.15.0-76 and 5.19.0-46 .
[11:16] <Gabrieltz> Other blades on the same switch with 20.04 or older versions , even an ancient centos 5 for testing work fine. Do you have any ideas ?
[11:18] <Gabrieltz> i added ql2xextended_error_logging=0x1e400000 module parameter but nothing was reported after it got stuck. Just the message "multipath: 253:0: Failing path 8:80."  for each path
[11:21] <Gabrieltz> during this phase of being stuck , every process that tries to access the device mapper disk or any individual /dev/sdX hangs , until i echo 1 > issue_lip for each host , force unmount , remove qla2xxx driver and try again
[11:28] <weedmic> u8353v[m]: concur
[11:30] <ogra> Gabrieltz, i'd try #ubuntu-kernel
[11:31] <Gabrieltz> thank you
 "u8353v: concur" <- 👍
[11:52] <weedmic> u8353v[m]: just fyi, except on very special machines where I backup the sys volume with clonezilla, I have found that it is just faster to install linux from scracth and change a few settings to our network.  this usually only happens with an hardware failure.  I think the longest it's taken me this last year to install and setup a machine is 18 mins.  just not worth the hassle.
 "u8353v: just fyi, except on very..." <- amen!
[12:13] <u8353v[m]> i came to same conclusion. that it's not worth the hassle with rescuezilla for e.g
[12:13] <u8353v[m]> with backups all i need is to reinstall which takes 10 minutes and then run the apps script i have which takes another 5 and i have everything back as it was!
[12:13] <u8353v[m]> this is the beauty about linux. install 90% of software from the official repos 🙂
[12:15] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:17] <nona> without having a bionic VM up somewhere, is there a place online where i could see what the latest version of a package was, there?
[15:35] <jhutchins> nona: What package?
[15:35] <leftyfb> nona: rmadison <package name>
[15:52] <Niclos> Hello Team, if I install Anaconda on Ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS do I get python3 version 3.6.8 through that?
[15:54] <leftyfb> Niclos: that is completely unsupported here
[15:54] <vlm> tried searching for it in repository no such packages for me atleast
[15:55] <leftyfb> vlm: we've been through this with Niclos. There is no 3.6.8 in any supported release of ubuntu. 3.6.8 was EOL'd by the python project a long time ago and should not be used
[15:56] <leftyfb> Niclos has been advised to fix the python script so it worked on supported versions of python
[15:56] <vlm> leftyfb ok was replying to niclos though i dont need it -_-
[15:57] <leftyfb> at the very least, they were advised to install Ubuntu 20.94 in a VM or container and test the script against 3.8.2
[15:57] <leftyfb> sorry, 20.04
[16:00] <Niclos> leftyfb: thank you, so the python3 3.6.8 version package is not on the Anaconda?
[16:01] <leftyfb> Niclos: I don't know, I don't use anaconda and it's not supported here. You should NOT be trying to shoe-horn 3.6.8 onto anything. That is the wrong solution.
[16:02] <ogra> given you have spent multiple days on this already investing the time into simply fixing the compatibility probs of the scripts might really be faster ...
[16:03] <leftyfb> I bet it wouldn't take 4 days to fix the script
[16:05] <Niclos> the problem is PetaLinux/Xilinx 2020.1 build pipelines using the python3 version 3.6.8 and they told me pthon3 3.10.6 is break the build.
[16:07] <leftyfb> did you try 3.8.2 available in ubuntu 20.04 like I've suggested twice now?
[16:08] <leftyfb> Niclos: also, file a bug with PetaLinux/Xilinx to get them to fix their code to work with supported versions of Python
[16:12] <Niclos> leftyfb: they said 'We tried that'.
[16:13] <leftyfb> Niclos: then consider PetaLinux/Xilinx a dead project. They cannot expect to continue to survive by never upgrading python ever again
[16:23] <mola> hello
[16:23] <mola> how are you guys doing..
[16:24] <mola> no one is replying.. i guess machine learning or creating neural-networks right
[16:24] <mola> don't quit guys
[16:24] <leftyfb> !chat | mola
[16:24] <mola> we'll are here to talk
[16:24] <mola> i understand
[16:25] <mola> leftyfb, ubotuu.. i thought it as a whatsapp
[16:25] <mola> misunderstood.. and i think won't repeat it again
[16:26] <Manouchehri> Any clue what causes some snaps to error out with this after awhile? DBus error "System.Error.E2BIG": [Argument list too long]
[16:27] <mola> wai lemme check
[16:27] <Manouchehri> https://github.com/canonical/microk8s/issues/2194#issuecomment-1469292204 <- this kills all my sessions so it kinda sucks..
[16:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Issue 2194 in canonical/microk8s "'microk8s.kubectl' failed: cannot create transient scope: DBus error 'System.Error.E2BIG'" [Open]
[16:31] <mola> did you get what was causing you the snap issue
[16:31] <mola> what snap are you referring to here.. snapstores in linux
[16:32] <mola> and i think #ubuntu probably solved your issue
[16:33] <Manouchehri> oh hmm maybe this is the problem. https://stackoverflow.com/a/59926524
[16:35] <Manouchehri> mola: how?
[16:38] <mola> no Manoucheri .. i thought one-of-the mods here solved your issue.. as they are here for the very purpose.. well.. when i too googled the error.. it stated about the arg-list too long.. and now you referred a article that discusses that it is a very BUG
[16:38] <Manouchehri> no mods have replied as far as I can tell...?
[16:38] <mola> what do mean by snaps
[16:39] <mola> snapstores or anything else
[16:39] <Manouchehri> like I program I installed through snapd
[16:39] <leftyfb> mola: the support provided here is by the community. Not "mods"
[16:40] <mola> understood leftyfb.. now be normal
[16:42] <mola> you installed a program through snap.. or some package for the program.. please specify this
[16:42] <Manouchehri> `sudo snap install ipsw`
[16:48] <mola> clear the snap cache by this sudo rm -rf /var/cache/snapd/
[16:48] <mola> check again if this works
[16:51] <mola> if the first one doesn't try sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade.. it's usually recommended to do- before installing anything.. in-case you forgot
[16:51] <oac> no no no please don't
[16:51] <mola> oac what happened
[16:52] <leftyfb> oac: can we help you with something?
[16:52] <oac> just probably not a great idea to `sudo rm -rf /var/cache/snapd`
[16:52] <leftyfb> mola: they aren't having a problem installing the snap. Only when it runs. Clearing the snapd cache isn't going to affect anything. Nor is updating apt packages
[16:53] <mola> not the snap i understand.. the program right
[16:53] <leftyfb> oac: deleting /var/cache/snapd/* isn't going to hurt anything
[16:53] <mola> oac you can just reinstall that if in case anything goes teribbly wronf
[16:53] <leftyfb> but it won't fix anything either
[16:54] <mola> ipsw is a program i looked for jaibreaking iphones or what
[16:55] <mola> this is what i got from there github:   ipsw [command]
[16:55] <mola> Available Commands:
[16:55] <mola>   debugserver     Prep device for remote debugging
[16:55] <mola>   device-list     List all iOS devices
[16:55] <mola>   diff            Diff IPSWs
[16:55] <mola>   download        Download Apple Firmware files (and more)
[16:56] <leftyfb> !paste | mola
[16:59] <Manouchehri> mola: don't think clearing the cache is gonna make a difference
[16:59] <mola> please why yo guys activated the quite mode
[16:59] <mola> i understood.. i was wrong
[16:59] <oac> Manouchehri: have you taken a look at this yet? https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/dbus-error-system-error-e2big-error/29227/3
[17:00] <oac> Not that there appears to be any real solution there...
[17:00] <Manouchehri> haha yeah, I was bout to say I don't see any solution
[17:01] <Manouchehri> my current guess is maybe it's related to journald at the user level
[17:01] <Manouchehri> https://ma.ttias.be/clear-systemd-journal/
[17:01] <Manouchehri> next time I run into it I'll try that
[17:01] <Manouchehri> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/7119#issuecomment-504674408
[17:01] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Issue 7119 in systemd/systemd "systemd-journald   Argument list too long" [Open]
[17:02] <mola> so the issue got fixed now for you manochehri
[17:02] <Manouchehri> no..
[17:02] <Manouchehri> no clue what gave you that impression
[17:03] <oac> Interesting, it looks like it might be an incorrect error code. E2BIG instead of ENOSPC, where the latter is caused by journal size being too large. I'd definitely give truncating the journal a try.
[17:04] <mola> nothing leave it
[17:05] <mola> just for the logs lol
[17:05] <mola> nothing related to ipsw related error
[17:05] <mola> what are you saying
[17:08] <uf> when setting up a simple cron job, but for a complicated command with parameters and stuff, do you need to escape the command or something?
[17:09] <uf> i mean when there's characters like >, &, ", etc. in the command
[17:10] <leftyfb> uf: I would use a systemd timer instead of cron
[17:11] <uf> why?
[17:12] <leftyfb> uf: because it's the modern way of running scheduled jobs. There's more capability and less chance you run into escape or ENVAR issues
[17:24] <uf> does that really require a service AND a timer?
[17:27] <leftyfb> yes
[17:27] <leftyfb> it's really not that difficult though
[17:30] <spmkde> uf: here's a good article on how to set that up: https://silentlad.com/how-to-use-systemd-timers-(cronjob-alternative)
[17:30] <uf> i just cant see myself remembering i did any of these in a few months
[17:30] <spmkde> and here's a good intro on the timer format: https://silentlad.com/systemd-timers-oncalendar-(cron)-format-explained
[17:31] <leftyfb> the logging is worlds better as well
[17:42] <Guest85> Hi
[17:42] <PvtJoker> hello Guest85
[17:43] <Guest85> I have Legion 7 Slim
[17:43] <Guest85> https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/legion-series/legion-s7-16irh8/82y3/82y3006frk/mp2fmfl0?linkTrack=Caps%3ABody_SearchProduct&searchType=6&keyWordSearch=MP2FMFL0
[17:43] <Guest85> i installed ubuntu lot of versions but i dont have sound
[17:43] <Guest85> from windows 11 i have
[17:43] <Guest85> can someone help me with this :(
[17:43] <PvtJoker> Guest85 in the future you should not share that
[17:44] <PvtJoker> it has your serial number
[17:44] <Guest85> why?
[17:44] <Guest85> its not my its random legion 7 slim but whats problem?
[17:45] <PvtJoker> Serial Number:MP2FMFL0
[17:45] <lavaball> is /etc/netplan still being used?i want to add a permanent route. ip r a ip1 via ip2 lalal, you know how it goes.
[17:46] <PvtJoker> Guest85 what chipset does your audio use?
[17:47] <Guest85> idk
[17:47] <Guest85> im not in near laptop its from my friend
[17:47] <PvtJoker> ask your friend to type : sudo dmesg | grep audio
[17:47] <Guest85> i installed ubuntu she asked but no sound :(
[17:47] <PvtJoker> that should return some information to give us a clue
[17:48] <oac> In the settings, do you see if any audio devices are appearing? Is it possible the wrong one is selected? e.g. HDMI audio output instead of the built-in sound card?
[17:50] <leftyfb> Guest85: when you're near the laptop, let us know and we'll be happy to help you. Or tell your friend to join here to get help. We can't troubleshoot adequately with an unknown time buffer
[17:50] <PvtJoker> oac : good one. i had not thought of that :)
[17:51] <Guest85> its realtek chipset
[17:53] <Guest85> can someone help me with that
[17:54] <leftyfb> Guest85: let us know when you can run commands on the laptop and we can troubleshoot
[17:55] <Guest85> what commands?
[17:57] <oac> Guest85: What Ubuntu version is installed?
[17:57] <Guest85> latest
[17:57] <oac> 23.04 or 22.04?
[17:58] <oac> the latter is the latest LTS (sometimes default) and the former is the actual latest
[17:58] <leftyfb> Guest85: ( cat /etc/os-release ; uname -a ; lspci ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[17:58] <leftyfb> Guest85: run that and paste the resulting URL here
[18:05] <sidjames> Server user only here, 22.04: Netplan. Does Desktop still use Network Manager?
[18:07] <leftyfb> yes
[18:08] <sidjames> Cool. Switching then, I'm more familiar with that.
[18:10] <leftyfb> sidjames: network manager really isn't meant for the server. You should be using netplan
[18:10] <sidjames> No, I mean I'll switch to Desktop
[18:11] <leftyfb> just to manage networking?
[18:12] <leftyfb> sidjames: what exactly is the issue?
[18:13] <sidjames> No issue really, I just know Network Manager much better
[18:15] <leftyfb> sidjames: seems silly to add additional overhead to your server and complexity when nothing is actually broken
[18:29] <mefistof1les> hey
[18:29] <mefistof1les> using ubuntu jammy with  http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu as repo
[18:30] <mefistof1les> I get random transfer drops with it, is there anythign I should be changing to get better transfer rates?
[18:30] <mefistof1les> it starts pretty fast and all of a sudden it drops
[18:36] <mefistof1les> chose another mirror and it's working as expected
[18:42] <PvtJoker> I'm having trouble with a CIFS mount showing up as read-only :
[18:43] <PvtJoker> sudo mount -t cifs -o username=patrick,password=nope!,rw,user //<IP_ADDRESS>/Patrick Patrick/
[18:43] <leftyfb> PvtJoker: can you write to it as root?
[18:44] <PvtJoker> i will try
[18:45] <PvtJoker> yes i can write : sudo nano test.txt
[18:45] <leftyfb> PvtJoker: if so, then it's not mounted read-only, you just haven't set the permissions properly. You can try something like:   uid=$(id -u),gid=$(id -g)
[18:46] <PvtJoker> leftyfb it works! never would have gotten that myself! thank you
[18:47] <leftyfb> PvtJoker: first result on google when searching for "cifs mount read/write"
[18:47] <PvtJoker> ah noted
[18:47] <PvtJoker> cheers!
[19:00] <Ubuntu> hi
[19:01] <Guest1875> h
[19:01] <Guest1875> hi
[19:02] <Guest1875> can someone help me with my new legion 7 slim
[19:02] <Guest1875> no sound
[19:03] <leftyfb> Guest1875:  ( cat /etc/os-release ; uname -a ; lspci ) | nc termbin.com 9999
[19:03] <leftyfb> Guest1875: run that and post the resulting URL here
[19:03] <Guest1875> ok 2 min please
[19:11] <Guest1875> leftyfb https://termbin.com/5x6p
[19:12] <yes-ubuntu> Hello! Is there a chat room for nano text editor?
[19:12] <leftyfb> !alis | yes-ubuntu
[19:13] <leftyfb> Guest1875: did you try looking in the settings to select an audio output device? It looks like you have audio on the motherboard and over HDMI through the GPU
[19:13] <yes-ubuntu> leftyfb: thank you!
[19:13] <Guest1875> leftyfb i need turn on sound laptop is without sound there is no hdmi
[19:14] <Guest1875> on windows its work but on ubuntu ints without sound
[19:14] <leftyfb> Guest1875: did you try looking in the settings to select an audio output device? I
[19:15] <Guest1875> leftyfb 1 min i will check it again
[19:16] <Guest1875> leftyfb https://ibb.co/jh0DzwD
[19:16] <Guest1875> here is screen
[19:16] <leftyfb> Guest1875: settings -> sound
[19:17] <oac> Yeah, that looks like pavucontrol, is that preinstalled?
[19:17] <Guest1875> leftyfb https://ibb.co/gdqvz7D
[19:18] <Guest1875> oac yea here is also pavucontrol
[19:18] <oac> If you have pavucontrol ("Volume Control"), you could also check the "Playback" tab to see if certain applications have different output devices selected
[19:19] <Guest1875> oac https://ibb.co/Dg1CtC8
[19:22] <Guest1875> any other options?
[19:22] <oac> Guest1875: It doesn't look like there's an output device selected for firefox, not that I can see how to select one (I have a dropdown to the right of the application name). Could you possibly open another application like Rhythmbox/VLC/Spotify/Amberol and see if audio works for any of them?
[19:23] <leftyfb> Guest1875: settings -> sound
[19:26] <Guest1875> leftyfb and?
[19:26] <leftyfb> Guest1875: please screenshot what it looks like, preferably with the dropdown under "Output Device" showing all the options
[19:28] <Guest1875> leftyfb https://ibb.co/7pxQNpc
[19:28] <Guest1875> oac https://ibb.co/7pxQNpc
[19:28] <Guest1875> still no sound
[19:28] <leftyfb> Guest1875: what other options are under "Output Device"?
[19:29] <Guest1875> only speakers
[19:30] <leftyfb> Guest1875: since your system has both onboard and audio through the GPU, I would suggest installing the proprietary drivers for your GPU with: sudo ubuntu-drivers install
[19:30] <Guest1875> this help
[19:30] <Guest1875> ?
[19:31] <leftyfb> my guess is the lack of proper drivers is confusing your system into believing the default/only audio is the GPU
[19:31] <leftyfb> Guest1875: you're asking if my suggestion is going to help?
[19:32] <leftyfb> Guest1875: that's the whole point of asking for help isn't it? Someone suggesting something to try and seeing if it works
[19:32] <Guest1875> Traceback (most recent call last):
[19:32] <Guest1875>   File "/usr/bin/ubuntu-drivers", line 513, in <module>
[19:32] <Guest1875>     greet()
[19:32] <Guest1875>   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/click/core.py", line 1128, in __call__
[19:32] <Guest1875>     return self.main(*args, **kwargs)
[19:32] <Guest1875>   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/click/core.py", line 1053, in main
[19:32] <leftyfb> !paste | Guest1875
[19:33] <leftyfb> Guest1875: sudo apt update ; sudo apt full-upgrade && sudo ubuntu-drivers install
[19:34] <mefistof1les> oh no, upgraded ubuntu and nvidai drivers are now failing... damn
[19:34] <mefistof1les> nvidia*
[19:34] <Guest1875> leftyfb i use that last  command  im waiting
[19:35] <leftyfb> mefistof1les: define "upgraded ubuntu". You're upgrading between releases (which ones) or just ran normal package updates?
[19:35] <oac> One thing I notice: in pavucontrol under "Playback" the Firefox application had volume levels appearing on the slider, but in Settings->Sound there are no levels appearing. So I would bet the problem is not with sound drivers, but with sound configuration not correctly sending sound to the "Speakers - Built-in Audio" device
[19:36] <leftyfb> doubtful
[19:36] <mefistof1les> leftyfb: no, same release
[19:36] <mefistof1les> jsut did an apt upgrade
[19:37] <oac> leftyfb: How else would you explain why there is no sound peak level in Settings->Sound? That is input volume to that audio device
[19:39] <leftyfb> because it's not detecting the output sound device properly, potentially due to the lack of proper drivers for the HDMI audio output built into the GPU which is confusing the system to believe that GPU is the default/only audio device
[19:41] <cbreak> anyone got any idea if ubuntu still has devs? There doesn't seem to be any activity on this basic functionality breaking bug like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1971594
[19:41] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1741074 in firefox (Ubuntu) "[snap] chrome-gnome-shell extension fails to detect native host connector" [High, In Progress] [duplicate: 1971594]
[19:42] <Guest1875> leftyfb black screen
[19:43] <mefistof1les> cbreak: it definitely has devs, but they are probably busy with higher priority things
[19:45] <leftyfb> cbreak: from what I understand, that bug is actively being worked on. You'll just have to wait
[19:45] <leftyfb> Guest1875: after a reboot?
[19:45] <Guest1875> leftyfb 1 min
[19:47] <Guest1875> leftyfb same
[19:47] <cbreak> leftyfb: cool
[19:47] <cbreak> a coworker switched to the firefox ppa, so I've been considering that too, but ...
[19:47] <oac> cbreak: if you need to use that particular feature on Firefox, you could try the firefox flatpak instead, the sandboxing might be more flexible there.
[19:48] <leftyfb> Guest1875: if so, try hitting CTRL+ALT+F1 and running: ubuntu-drivers devices
[19:48] <leftyfb> Guest1875: pastebin the results
[19:49] <Guest1875> im using anydesk can you send me command please
[19:49] <cbreak> oac: hmm... that might be an other way. But probably won't work. At work we use some shitty VPN software (F5 somethingsomething) that is browser integrated, and some also-terrible file transfer software (IBM Aspera), both of which are probably integrated badly
[19:49] <cbreak> for these I have an LXC container with 20.04, so ...
[19:50] <cbreak> but for home, maybe that works, here my only problem is 1password not integrating
[19:53] <Guest1875> leftyfb there is any option to send that command  in terminal?
[19:53] <leftyfb> Guest1875: huh?
[19:53] <oac> cbreak: the firefox snap works for me with the Bitwarden extension (autofill, etc.), so not sure what would be causing problems with 1password unfortunately
[19:53] <Guest1875> leftyfb im with anydesk
[19:53] <Guest1875> i cant send that command
[19:54] <leftyfb> why not?
[19:55] <leftyfb> Guest1875: doing this type of troubleshooting remotely over anydesk is ill-advised
[19:55] <Guest1875> leftyfb there is nothing happend
[19:55] <leftyfb> define "nothing happened". What do you see?
[19:55] <Guest1875> user type his password
[19:55] <Guest1875> and same screen
[19:56] <leftyfb> define "same screen"
[19:56] <leftyfb> Can they login to the console?
[19:56] <Guest1875> terminal?
[19:56] <Guest1875> im in terminal
[19:56] <Guest1875> when i press ctrl+alt+f1 there coming login screen
[19:56] <oac> Guest1875: are you saying they do get to a login screen and the black screen only occurs after they log in?
[19:56] <leftyfb> right, login
[19:56] <Guest1875> she type password and login
[19:56] <Guest1875> again
[19:57] <leftyfb> ok?
[19:57] <cbreak> oac: the extension works, but it can't communicate with the desktop application
[19:57] <Guest1875> oacno there is no more black screen we restarted
[19:57] <leftyfb> what happens when she logs in to the terminal?
[19:57] <leftyfb> huh?
[19:57] <cbreak> so I have to log-in twice, and it can't use system-unlock, and cross-sync
[19:57] <Guest1875> leftyfb nothing there is just terminal window
[19:57] <leftyfb> Guest1875: are you saying they have a proper desktop environment now?
[19:57] <Guest1875> when i need press that command and where?
[19:58] <leftyfb> Guest1875: lets take multiple steps back
[19:58] <Guest1875> i need close all windows and press ctrl+alt+f1
[19:58] <Guest1875> ?
[19:58] <leftyfb> stop
[19:58] <Guest1875> k
[19:58] <leftyfb> Guest1875: does the machine currently boot up to an ubuntu desktop screen?
[19:59] <Guest1875> yes we are in ubuntu
[19:59] <Guest1875> desktop screen
[19:59] <leftyfb> ok, then we do not need to open a TTY to debug that part of it
[19:59] <leftyfb> Guest1875: open the "additional drivers" app
[20:00] <Guest1875> https://ibb.co/p4PRBjt
[20:00] <leftyfb> ok, perfect
[20:00] <Guest1875> i tried using x.org
[20:00] <leftyfb> it looks like you have proper drivers installed now
[20:00] <leftyfb> Guest1875: what? What about x.org?
[20:01] <Guest1875> i changed this from x.org to what u see on screen
[20:01] <leftyfb> what do you mean exactly?
[20:02] <Guest1875> when i install ubuntu there is no sound and i think it was nvidia driver
[20:02] <leftyfb> oh, I see
[20:02] <Guest1875> and select option
[20:02] <Guest1875> first
[20:02] <leftyfb> did you JUST pcik the first one now?
[20:02] <Guest1875> and installed restarted and still no sound
[20:02] <Guest1875> yea
[20:02] <Guest1875> not now
[20:02] <Guest1875> 2-3 hours ago
[20:02] <Guest1875> maybe 4
[20:02] <leftyfb> ok, so you have rebooted since you selected the 535 driver?
[20:02] <Guest1875> yea
[20:03] <leftyfb> what are the options under settings -> sound -> Output Device ?
[20:04] <Guest1875> only one option
[20:04] <Guest1875> same'
[20:04] <Guest1875> speakers built in audio
[20:04] <Guest1875> maybe i need download driver from nvidia website?
[20:05] <leftyfb> negative
[20:05] <Guest1875> :S
[20:06] <leftyfb> you could try the other driver options in the list but I don't have a lot of confidence one of them is going to work any better
[20:06] <leftyfb> I'm kind of at a loss here, maybe someone else can assist
[20:06] <Guest1875> leftyfb thank you bro <3
[20:07] <Guest1875> leftyfb for your help and humanity you are the best <3
[20:07] <Jakov> what is shortcut to select all text in gnome terminal @ ubuntu
[20:09] <leftyfb> there isn't one
[20:11] <leftyfb> Jakov: https://askubuntu.com/questions/692975/how-to-perform-a-select-all-via-keyboard-in-recent-versions-of-gnome-terminal
[20:11] <leftyfb> Jakov: first result on google for "gnome terminal select all"
[20:12] <oac> Guest1875: can you please go to Settings->Sound and try out the "Test" button next to the "Speakers - Built-in Audio" output device dropdown?
[20:12] <Guest1875> no work
[20:13] <Guest1875> maybe i need update bios?
[20:13] <oac> Is there any way you could plug in an HDMI device with audio output and see if the audio works through there?
[20:14] <leftyfb> they left
[20:14] <taylan> Hi all, I'm on 22.04 LTS and the latest version of Apache2 available (even with backports) is 2.4.52.  There seem to be some important bug fixes and improvements to mpm_event and mod_http2 in versions after that, so I wish to install the latest version.  Does anyone know if there's a package available in some third party repos?
[20:14] <oac> rip
[20:15] <taylan> Otherwise I might compile from source, but I'm not sure if it would be difficult to integrate the manually installed version into the system, like with systemd and all?
[20:16] <leftyfb> !latest | taylan
[20:17] <oac> Does anyone here know about the internals of EFI boot variables? I'm trying to understand what the value of a Boot#### variable should be, but I'm not seeing where the contents are actually defined: https://uefi.org/specs/UEFI/2.10/03_Boot_Manager.html#boot-manager-programming
[20:18] <taylan> Thanks for the pointer (PPA), I found this :)  https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/ubuntu/apache2
[20:49] <chrischrisjnr> hey all, has anyone had the issue using a mac and ubuntu where the mic doesnt work?
[20:49] <kostkon> !details
[20:50] <oac> I assume you don't mean using Ubuntu Asahi ?
[20:50] <chrischrisjnr> Running 22.04 on a MBP A1425 (2012 MacBook Pro)
[20:50] <chrischrisjnr> Neither the internal mic nor a mic connected to headphones work
[20:54] <chrischrisjnr> Not Ubuntu Asahi
[20:55] <Aavar> chrischrisjnr: not at all or in some applications?
[20:55] <chrischrisjnr> not at all
[20:56] <Aavar> chrischrisjnr: could it be a permissions issue? Does it work at root?
[20:57] <chrischrisjnr> Doesn't work at root
[20:58] <Aavar> does it show up as a device at all? Or in a mixer?
[20:58] <Jakov> *what is shortcut to select all text in gnome terminal @ ubuntu
[21:00] <Aavar> Jakov: https://askubuntu.com/questions/692975/how-to-perform-a-select-all-via-keyboard-in-recent-versions-of-gnome-terminal
[21:11] <chrischrisjnr> does not show up at all
[22:16] <Guest54> Okay. So I cant find the right google search terms.  My wlan is connected to a router, and internet is working.  I'm running a dhcp server on eth0 - and devices can connect and transfer files between eachother.    But the dhcp server does not provide internet access.  How do I do that? I cant find the right guide on the internet.
[22:17] <Guest54> running ubuntu-server by the way.
[22:20] <jeremy31> Trying to share a wifi connection over ethernet?
[22:20] <Guest54> yes
[22:22] <leftyfb> Guest54: is this server or desktop?
[22:22] <Guest54> server
[22:23] <leftyfb> Guest54: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/zvmC3Db5M9/
[22:23] <leftyfb> run that script as root on boot. Probably from /etc/networkd-dispatcher/routable.d/
[22:27] <Guest68> I want to ask, I wasn't able to install ubuntu v23, so I installed v22 should I try to update it to v23 now?
[22:27] <mefistof1les> Guest68: weird, what was the reason that you were unable to install v23?
[22:27] <leftyfb> !yy.mm | Guest68
[22:28] <Guest68> apparently, v23 wasn't able to detect my windows (Yes, I have dual boot set up)
[22:28] <Guest68> Oh that's nice to know, thanks!
[22:29] <leftyfb> Guest68: Ubuntu does not need to detect Windows
[22:29] <leftyfb> and the version you are referring to is Ubuntu 23.04
[22:29] <Guest68> Yes it does, otherwise I wasn't able to select the partition
[22:29] <Guest68> Yup
[22:30] <mefistof1les> well, it should for you to be able to dual boot, true
[22:30] <mefistof1les> odd that the 23.04 didn't do that
[22:30] <Guest68> Yeah, I also asked it here, then a nice guy suggested me to give 22.04 a try
[22:31] <leftyfb> Guest68: I would suggest sticking with 22.04 anyway. It's supported until 2027 whereas 23.04 will be End of Life in January.
[22:32] <Guest68> Yeah makes sense, I liked the ui of 23.04. The reason I am using ubuntu is to learn about the linux terminal, which I believe will be mostly same in both. I think I will stick with 22.04, thanks for help! Appreciate it
[23:12] <Guest54> leftyfb Thanks for your help and miniscript. It didnt work, but what did work was  "nmcli connection add type ethernet ifname eth0 ipv4.method shared con-name local "
[23:12] <leftyfb> That’s assuming you have network manager installed on a server which isn’t default
[23:13] <leftyfb> Also, the script does work
[23:13] <Guest54> okay - well thanks again for helping me along
[23:15] <grace> How can I install libgnomecanvasmm ?
[23:16] <sarnold> what do you intend to do with it once it's installed?
[23:17] <grace> finish building gladish
[23:17] <sarnold> grace: try sudo apt install libgnomecanvasmm-2.6-dev  -- or if you're not on focal, whatever version number actually matches :)
[23:17] <grace> its a core package with probably a bunch of deps, and I don't want to build core packages
[23:18] <grace> I'm on 23.04 and that package no longer exists
[23:19] <grace> frustrating, I know
[23:20] <sarnold> ohhh
[23:21] <grace> is there a ppa with those packages?
[23:23] <grace> I installed ubuntu-studio yesterday and its missing what I consider core packages: gladish, patchage, madjack, claudia
[23:23] <grace> and non-mixer
[23:23] <grace> I'm considering going to another distro
[23:23] <sarnold> grace: I don't think there's any ppas, launchpad normally reports ppas with other versions on the package page, near the bottom .. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomecanvasmm2.6
[23:24] <grace> hmm, whats that sandbox that builds packages from source packages ?
[23:24] <grace> let's do that
[23:25] <sarnold> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=895562 -- the removal bug filed in 2018 .. living the gnome life :(
[23:25] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Debian bug 895562 in ftp.debian.org "RM: libgnomecanvasmm2.6 -- RoQA; unmaintained upstream; no rdeps" [Normal, Open]
[23:30] <grace> say I download the libgnomecanvasmm2.6_2.26.0.*{dsc,orig.tar.gz,build1.debian.tar.xz} files, how can I then build the package in ubuntu's build sandbox ?
[23:34] <grace> pbuilder, I think that was it?
[23:35] <sarnold> yeah, pbuilder or sbuild; you can also set up a ppa and run the builds on launchpad instead
[23:35] <grace> meh, kiss
[23:39] <sarnold> grace: heh that's actually why I suggested it https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/en/man1/backportpackage.1.html
[23:39] <sarnold> granted, if it doesn't just build, then you've got a problem to sort out
[23:39] <sarnold> and if that happens, having a local build system would probably be easier / faster
[23:47] <WeeBey> Hi, I have a question frens. I'm backing up my ~ to re-install os clean. I'm on 22.10. If I install 23.04 and move my home back, will things break since I'm keeping the configs saved in my .config from 22.10?
[23:48] <plt2> Question is the correct gdlib for php 8.2?
[23:49] <plt2> php8.3-gd - GD module for PHP
[23:49] <Toadisattva> it'll probably be less likely to break things if you do the internal upgrade instead clean install + copy
[23:49] <Toadisattva> instead of*
[23:50] <WeeBey> Toadisattva, yeah but I want to set-up luks. Hmm.
[23:51] <sarnold> WeeBey: a lot of that depends upon the applications you use and how graceful they are with older files. most programs do fine.
[23:51] <WeeBey> hmm. Arg. Should be fine (i usually say then suffer for days).
[23:52] <sarnold> :)