[12:18] <Den> Hi - 12 hours ago Mithrandir gave me a special distro that hopefully fixed a bug "no ieee1394 support loaded at boot time to access cdrom".  Then he left for the weekend. But he sent me a not 32bit version.  I was merely pointing it out the dedication to create that is a little crazy
[01:15] <Lathiat> Burgwork: ya :)
[01:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: well, assuming that we can do dhcp without bootup speed penalty, I think just default-configuring all network interfaces to dhcp should work well.
[01:19] <Burgwork> Lathiat, why are you not on planet?
[01:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: except lo ...
[01:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, sure, but lo should be handled outside of /etc/network/interfaces, AIUI?
[01:21] <Kamion> it isn't right now
[01:21] <Kamion> but sure
[01:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, the parallell boot isn't here either, yet, so.. :-)
[01:26] <seth_k|lappy> raphink, you about?
[01:27] <raphink> testing wesnoth
[01:28] <Simira> :)
[01:28] <seth_k|lappy> could you archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1377 for me? :) \sh nagged
[01:28] <Simira> wesnoth's fun
[01:28] <seth_k|lappy> Simira, he means "play^W^W^W^Wtesting"
[01:28] <raphink> hehe
[01:28] <raphink> wanna play?
[01:28] <dabaR> Hi. What is a good python+GTK tutorial?
[01:29] <seth_k|lappy> raphink, sorry, but I have a dinner date in 30 min
[01:29] <raphink> ah nice :)
[01:29] <Simira> hmm... I think I didn't notice the amount of users in this channel for some time... it's grown!
[01:29] <raphink> Simira: wanna play?
[01:29] <Simira> raphink : it's bed-time (way past, really) here in Norway. Maybe another day?
[01:29] <raphink> well here too I'm in France Simira ;)
[01:30] <raphink> but tomorrow is saturday ;)
[01:30] <Simira> hehe
[01:30] <raphink> hehe
[01:30] <Simira> well, I have a somewhat normal dayrythm now, and starts in a new job on monday, so I intend to keep it
[01:31] <raphink> ok
[01:32] <Simira> so, good night all!
[01:32] <raphink> good night
[01:55] <ispiked> who committed this? http://daniel-robitaille.blogspot.com/2006/01/whats-new-in-dapper-1.html
[01:56] <desrt> oh man
[01:56] <desrt> that hurts a lot.
[01:56] <ispiked> desrt: you did that?
[01:56] <desrt> i wouldn't have done such a thing
[01:56] <slomo_> what exactly do you mean? the blog entry or the notification bubble?
[01:56] <ispiked> yeah. whoever did needs to get slapped.
[01:56] <ispiked> slomo_: sorry, the bubble.
[01:56] <desrt> the bubble
[01:57] <desrt> it looks ridiculous
[01:57] <ispiked> complete waste of time.
[01:57] <tseng> ispiked: next time you want to come and tell a developer they need "slapped" and about a "complete waste of time"
[01:57] <tseng> ispiked: please run it through your filter a few more times.
[01:57] <ispiked> tseng: that is my opinion that that dialog.
[01:58] <slomo_> desrt: it's no joke... but i actually like it ;)
[01:58] <crimsun> oh, so _that's_ why I haven't seen. I purged update-notifier.
[01:58] <desrt> crimsun; me too :D
[01:58] <tseng> ispiked: what if someone said your opinion was useless and you need to be slapped
[01:58] <ispiked> tseng: then let them.
[01:58] <Tm_T> ispiked: I partly even agree with comments
[01:58] <ispiked> tseng: all that matters is that my opinion is heard.
[01:58] <slomo_> ispiked: it's by the devs of notify-daemon / libnotify probably... tell them that it's bad and make a constructive propose what would be better...
[01:58] <tseng> there are plenty more constructive ways
[01:59] <tseng> to express an opinion
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: like?
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: commenting in that blog isn't going to do anything.
[01:59] <tseng> of course not
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: I really came here to figure out who did it.
[01:59] <ispiked> tseng: so I could ask them why.
[01:59] <tseng> we have a bug tracker for problems with bad software ideas
[01:59] <desrt> "<ispiked> i do not like the look of the new notification bubbles.  although i respect the developer who committed the change i call into question the judgement associated with making such a change."
[01:59] <desrt> :)
[02:00] <ispiked> heh.
[02:00] <ispiked> there is no way this is in bugzilla.
[02:00] <ispiked> someone would've caught it before it got in the tree.
[02:00] <desrt> search for dups.
[02:31] <HiddenWolf> I have to agree it's not pretty
[02:31] <HiddenWolf> not my taste at all. :)
[02:32] <slomo_> well, the tango icons are not my taste *shrug* ;) it's all a matter of taste...
[02:32] <tseng> slomo_: they are alot cleaner than gnome, just a dumb pallet :)
[02:33] <ispiked> it appears this is what did it: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/n/notify-daemon/notify-daemon_0.3.1-0ubuntu2/changelog
[02:34] <slomo_> tseng: maybe... i like the gnome ones better than the tango ones with the dump pallet ;) maybe i change my oppinion if they change the pallet...
[02:34] <slomo_> ispiked: yes, the new upstream release ;) as i told you some time ago, better talk to the authors of notify-daemon or libnotify...
[02:36] <HiddenWolf> slomo_, the icons are ok, the notification bubble is so, well, cartoonish. :)
[02:45] <ispiked> e-mailed the guy who made the commit.
[02:57] <nekohayo> anyone know if liblame0 will get into dapper soon? gst plugins ugly multiverse depends on it
[02:57] <Tm_T> hm?
[02:57] <Tm_T> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly is already the newest version
[02:58] <Tm_T> installed here
[02:58] <nekohayo> and there is a bunch of development packages for gstreamer missing
[02:58] <nekohayo> no, there's gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse
[02:58] <nekohayo> I think I saw that in the repositories
[02:58] <Tm_T> that installs too
[02:58] <nekohayo> ... huh? *checks again*
[03:00] <crimsun> liblame0 _is_ in dapper/multiverse.
[03:02] <Tm_T> btw looks like gst10 causes interesting problems
[03:02] <Tm_T> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x08338ec8 ***
[03:02] <Tm_T> anyway, sleep ->
[03:05] <nekohayo> woah, I'm an idiot. Forgot to add multiverse in my sources list. Very sorry
[03:55] <\sh> infinity: ping
[03:56] <infinity> pong
[03:56] <\sh> infinity /  lamont: if you have time please have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/liba/libaqbanking/1.6.1-1ubuntu1/ and tell me why the libchipcard2-0c2 not installable is? :)
[03:56] <Riddell> \sh: it's libsysfs I think
[03:56] <\sh> because it is
[03:57] <Riddell> infinity: could you give back ksudoku, xlibmesa-gl-dev dependency has been removed
[03:57] <\sh> Inst libchipcard2-0c2 (<IP_ADDRESS>+1.9.16alpha-1 Ubuntu:6.04/dapper)
[03:57] <\sh> Riddell: this is in a dapper amd64 chroot
[03:58] <\sh> and this version is needed by libaqbanking but libchipcard2-dev on our buildd doesn't know it that it's installable :)
[03:58] <Riddell> \sh: it's something which depends on libsysfs1 but now we have libsysfs2 and it won't build against that
[03:58] <Riddell> I just can't remember what the something is just now
[03:58] <infinity> Riddell: Done.
[03:59] <Riddell> yeah, it's libchipcard2
[03:59] <\sh> Riddell: but it's installable..updated dapper chroot etc. pp.
[04:00] <\sh> let me try again
[04:00] <infinity> \sh: Is it installable WITH the other build-deps?
[04:00] <\sh> infinity: give me 2 mins
[04:00] <Riddell> \sh: and which libsysfsX do you have installed?
[04:01] <infinity> (none, if it's a clean chroot)
[04:03] <\sh> well actually I have two...libsysfs1 and 2...but it's the same behaviour on i386...and there i have a clean one...moment
[04:03] <\sh> well..pbuilder said it's installable...and builds...let me check the chroot
[04:04] <infinity>   libchipcard2-0c2: Depends: libsysfs1 but it is not installable
[04:04] <infinity> E: Package libsysfs1 has no installation candidate
[04:04] <infinity> In other words, your chroot it dirty.
[04:05] <infinity> Any other questions?
[04:05] <\sh> but my pbuilder should be clean
[04:05] <Riddell> and libchipcard won't build against libsys2, it fails on sysfs_open_device_tree
[04:05] <infinity> Should be a small patch to fix for the API change, no?
[04:05] <Riddell> dunno, need to find out what the API change is
[04:06] <infinity> diff the headers, make educated guesses. :)
[04:06] <Riddell> doing so :)
[04:08] <\sh> oh yes
[04:17] <\sh> Riddell: what about sysfs_open_device_path?
[04:21] <Riddell> \sh: I think sysfs_get_bus_devices is the one
[04:21] <Riddell> (advised from upstream)
[04:21] <\sh> cool
[04:24] <\sh> why don't they write something like that in the documentation when they're changing the API..
[04:26] <Riddell> \sh: I think that assumes they have documentation for their API
[04:27] <\sh> Riddell: somethings is in the sources in the docs dir
[04:27] <\sh> a plain textfile
[05:41] <mako> tseng: dude, a national guardsman changed his name to optimus prime.. that's awesome
[06:09] <Burgundavia> mako, you have any experience with docbook?
[06:45] <mako> Burgundavia: lots
[06:45] <mako> Burgundavia: i did a bunch of stylesheet hacking in previous days :)
[06:45] <mako> Burgundavia: whats up?
[06:46] <Burgundavia> mako, having some issue with building a minimalist test case to test PNG in SVG in Docbook in yelp
[06:49] <mako> Burgundavia: is this somewhere i can get to it?
[06:49] <Burgundavia> mako, can I email you?
[06:49] <fabbione> hey mako!
[06:50] <fabbione> siretart: ping?
[06:52] <Burgundavia> mako, does @ubuntu.com still work
[06:53] <mako> fabbione: hey dude
[06:53] <mako> Burgundavia: yesk, of course
[06:54] <mako> Burgundavia: although i usually tend to get to the @atdot where you've been seeing mail recently more quickly
[06:56] <Burgundavia> mako, ah, oops. Sent to @ubuntu.com already
[06:56] <mako> Burgundavia: that's fine
[06:56] <mako> Burgundavia: have you done anything yet?
[06:58] <Burgundavia> mako, extensive outlines
[06:59] <mako> Burgundavia: ahh, good
[07:00] <mako> Burgundavia: i'm not much better
[07:01] <Burgundavia> mako, a year of experience with the source material is going to make the writing easier
[07:10] <mako> Burgundavia: ok.. what are you using to build this?
[07:11] <mako> Burgundavia: i cleaned up the XML so it's at least validating
[07:13] <Burgundavia> mako, my test case?
[07:13] <mako> Burgundavia: yes
[07:14] <mako> Burgundavia: just using yelp, right?
[07:14] <Burgundavia> mako, yep
[07:14] <desrt> Burgundavia; thesis or something?
[07:15] <mako> i did my undergrad thesis in docbook
[07:15] <mako> you only make that mistake once
[07:15] <desrt> hah
[07:15] <mako> well, you usually only *get* to make that mistake once
[07:15] <desrt> unless you do 2 undergraduate degrees for some reason
[07:15] <mako> but if i were to go back now and write another undergrad thesis...
[07:15] <Burgundavia> desrt, no, some technical writing
[07:16] <desrt> tex seems popular in this part of the world
[07:16] <mako> desrt: i think now that i'm working on a graduate degree, that would be unlikely
[07:16] <desrt> well
[07:17] <desrt> i'm working on my undergraduate thesis this term
[07:17] <desrt> and i'm using abiword + a typesetter
[07:17] <desrt> it works very well
[07:22] <Burgundavia> mako, have you managed to figure out how I was being dumb?
[07:28] <fabbione> Burgundavia: you are really really tempting me to say "by nature" :P
[07:28] <Burgundavia> fabbione, explains why I am sales drone and not a developer
[07:28] <fabbione> Burgundavia: ehhe a marketroid
[07:29] <Burgundavia> no, not a marketroid, those are inferior. I am a Sales Drone!
[07:30] <mako> Burgundavia: umm.. it's not yopu
[07:30] <LaserJock> desrt: in my lab all of the dissertations, etc. are done with tex, being able to keep track of references is nice
[07:31] <Burgundavia> mako, is it yelp?
[07:31] <mako> Burgundavia: i'm not displaying ANY svgs
[07:31] <mako> Burgundavia: pngs are working fine
[07:32] <Burgundavia> mako, hmm, regression since the warty days then
[07:32] <mako> Burgundavia: your XML was a little sloppy ;)
[07:32] <Burgundavia> it was a little cut and paste
[07:32] <mako> :)
[07:32] <mako> in any case, PNGs are working fine but yelp on this ubuntu system does nots do SVGs
[07:32] <Burgundavia> dapper or breezy?
[07:32] <mako> breezy here
[07:33] <mako> my gf is alseep in the room with the dapper box
[07:33] <mako> and quite honestly, i probably should be too :)
[07:33] <Burgundavia> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161374
[07:34] <Burgundavia> mako, mind attaching what you found that bug?
[07:34] <mako> Burgundavia: i'd like to try it against the version in dapper first
[07:34] <mako> Burgundavia: i'll paste you somethhing useful though
[07:35] <Burgundavia> my dapper box is currently not functional, due to the daily cd
[07:35] <Burgundavia> and a small OO.o bug killing grub install
[07:37] <mako> Burgundavia: ok.. i'll try this tomorrow
[07:37] <mako> alright, off
[07:37] <mako> 'night
[07:37] <fabbione> night mako!
[07:38] <Burgundavia> mako, thanks
[07:46] <Den> Mithrandir: Did you get my email that the iso you gave me was not for 32 bit?   Do you have a 32 bit iso with the fix>
[07:48] <Den> Anyone here who maintains anything about the boot process?
[07:50] <Den> Anyone here at all?
[07:50] <Den> BenC: Are you here?
[07:52] <Den> ubuntu-devel has gone to bed.
[07:54] <fabbione> Den: it's weekend.. most of the people are resting :)
[07:54] <Den> Ah! a living thing!
[07:54] <fabbione> no
[07:55] <Den> fabbione:  Are you a developer?
[07:55] <fabbione> i am a bot answering machine
[07:55] <Den> Please don't be telling the truth!
[07:55] <Den> Do you know anything about the boot sw?
[07:55] <fabbione> Den: it depends.. just ask
[07:57] <Den> So, yesterday Mithrandir  made a fix to try to enable ieee1394 firewire, and gave me a url to dl an iso, but it was not for 32 bit, & didn't work.
[07:58] <Den> Are you able to access the relevant code, fix it, & get me some code to see if the firewire scsi boot can be made to work?
[07:58] <fabbione> no
[07:58] <fabbione> you need to wait for Mithrandir
[07:58] <Den> I see Mithrandir is showing up as online for this channel 0 do you know if he'll be around?
[07:59] <Den> PS, what ubuntu devel stuff do you work on?
[07:59] <Amaranth> i wonder if he'll try to get the squashfs-lzma change in for dapper...
[07:59] <fabbione> Den: again.. it's saturday :) people might not be around till Monday.
[07:59] <Amaranth> Mithrandir has been idle over 6 hours
[07:59] <Amaranth> yeah, i know seb128 isn't around on weekends
[08:00] <Den> Is there some info about who does what for ubuntu development?  A wiki or regular web page, perhaps?  An article, or interview online???
[08:02] <fabbione> Den: all these questions are FAQ. please use #ubuntu
[08:02] <fabbione> or read up on wiki.ubuntu.com
[08:03] <fabbione> cya on monday guyes
[08:03] <fabbione> guys
[08:03] <Amaranth> bye
[08:03] <Amaranth> have fun
[10:40] <Mithrandir> Den: yes, or rather, I remembered on my way home.  It's a bit awkward for me to make a new one from home, so if it's ok with you, I'll wait until Monday to create a new one for you.  Is that ok?
[11:07] <pitti> moo
[11:08] <infinity> You really need to stop showing up 10 seconds after I upload imagemagick..
[11:08] <Mithrandir> hi infty
[11:08] <infinity> Hey Toilet.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> pft
[11:09] <infinity> :)
[11:11] <pitti> infinity: heh, bad timing?
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: For dapper, you probably shouldn't worry too much about imagemagick security anyway.  Looks like the most frequent NMUer (korbas) has been hacking on several patches recently, and he told me he'd be uploading, incorporating my NMUs, pretty soon.
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: Of course, that still leaves us on our own for warty/hoary/breezy, but whatever.
[11:12] <infinity> pitti: So, I'm just going to request a sync of my most recent upload, and let autosync sort out dapper.
[11:12] <pitti> ok, thanks for notifying
[11:12] <pitti> sounds good
[11:13] <infinity> (And no, I will NOT be joining any imagemagick teams in Debian, this was a one-time NMU...)
[11:14] <infinity> Hey Ben.
[11:14] <infinity> Or is that just connection bouncing?
[11:14] <infinity> Probably.
[11:15] <pitti> infinity: BenC does that all the time
[11:15] <infinity> Yeah.    I thought you only were ~10 hours ahead of me?
[11:38] <jdub> hrm, i should totally visit clarkson university
[11:38] <jdub> they do lots of ubuntu stuff
[11:38] <Mithrandir> jdub: where is that?
[11:38] <jdub> new york
[11:39] <jdub> state
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ahkay
[11:41] <infinity> Mithrandir: No, but tomorrow is Sunday, and I was talking about finding tuits tomorrow. :)
[11:43] <jdub> http://xen.cosi.clarkson.edu/?page_id=8
[11:44] <jdub> you guys seen this? it was a summer of code project
[11:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: ah, point.
[11:44] <jdub> d-i support, kernel images, etc.
[11:44] <Lathiat> cool
[11:45] <Mithrandir> jdub: I've seen it a tiny bit, at least, yes.  I think the guy who did them has been around here a bit, but I can't remember his IRC nick.
[11:46] <jdub> there is a dude called jeremy bongio working on it
[11:46] <jdub> that is the coolest name EVER
[11:47] <Burgundavia> jdub, ed despard was supposed to be paid by Ubuntu for that work
[11:47] <jdub> looks like he got paid by google
[11:47] <Burgundavia> jdub, he was dropped by google for non-responsiveness but then appeared in Sept. with his finished work
[11:48] <jdub> ahr
[11:51] <Burgundavia> jdub, seen this? http://pim.kde.org/playground/osnabrueck4/
[11:53] <jdub> nup
[11:53] <Burgundavia> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1732
[12:03] <Lathiat>
[12:23] <ulaas> hi! any idea whats wrong with monodevelop and deps?
[12:23] <tseng> yes, im fixing it
[12:23] <tseng> check in an hour or two
[12:23] <ulaas> tseng, oh great thanx man
[12:23] <tseng> np.
[01:15] <jdub> BenC: dapper kernels are built from tarballs of the ubuntu git branch, right?
[01:29] <infinity> jdub: Pretty much, yep.
[01:34] <Simira> jon_kare : norsk?
[01:38] <jon_kare> Simira: ja
[01:49] <Simira> jon_kare : hyggelig. Kan ikke huske  ha sett deg i ubuntu-sammenheng fr. Jeg er kontaktperson for Ubuntu Norge.
[02:45] <Gagatan> hei jon_kare - lenge siden sist :)
[02:47] <jon_kare> hei
[02:48] <jon_kare> (realname var forstelig)
[02:48] <Gagatan> traff p en annen tidl. kollega oppi lypa her ogs.. skalvise.. Ole Enge
[02:49] <Gagatan> og Magne kommer p middag.. fr vel forberede litt snart
[02:49] <hunger> Gagatan: Could you please switch to english? Your language causes my irc client to beep:-)
[02:50] <Gagatan> haha :)
[02:50] <Gagatan> hunger: sorry.. just said hello to some former co-worker of mine :)
[02:50] <jon_kare>
[02:50] <hunger> Gagatan: No problem:-)
[02:50] <hunger> Hi pitti.
[02:51] <Gagatan> hunger: and I met a second former co-worker also skiing cross-country
[02:51] <pitti> hi again
[02:51] <hunger> jon_kare: Your text is displayed properly.
[02:55] <Simira> hehe
[03:04] <zakame> elmo: please sync linkchecker from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes ok, thanks :)
[04:12] <azeem> so Ubuntu changed xmakemol's xlibmesa-dev B-D to "libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev", while Debian did "xlibmesa-gl-dev"
[04:12] <azeem> is there a common denominator?
[04:34] <zakame> hm why is lesstif2 not in dapper yet?
[04:35] <zakame> (after its split from lesstif1-1, I mean)
[04:50] <pitti> zakame: s/yet/any more/
[04:51] <pitti> zakame: because it's crack, and we don't want/need it
[04:51] <pitti> zakame: btw, we threw it out in breezy already
[04:52] <zakame> pitti: indeed... well, was asking 'coz xmakemol seems to need it
[04:52] <pitti> zakame: that's universe too, so it shouldn't be a problem?
[04:53] <sebest> hi, when a bug in malone is target to be fixed in ubuntu without a specific release, should we close it if it's fixed in dapper?
[04:53] <sebest> i'm talking about bug 5690
[04:53] <pitti> sebest: yes, unless it's a security bug
[04:53] <sebest> it's just a typo in a manpage
[04:53] <sebest> so i close it
[04:53] <pitti> sebest: yes, thanks
[04:54] <zakame> pitti: chninkel has been trying to merge that package, and thus hit that snag
[05:03] <pitti> Kamion: here?
[05:03] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[05:04] <pitti> Kamion: is the current failure of live CD known? "User not known to the underlying authentication module" - and ubuntu doesn't autologin (gdm loop)
[05:05] <Kamion> no - that would be Mithrandir's problem I guess
[05:05] <Kamion> oh, gdm doesn't refuse to log in system users, does it?
[05:06] <pitti> Kamion: no idea, but the VCs don't work either, so I can't login
[05:06] <Kamion> we now set the ubuntu user to uid 999 to help out espresso
[05:06] <pitti> hm, maybe it's that
[05:06] <infinity> "not known to the underlying authentication module" sounds like PAM told GDM "nu uh" to me.
[05:06] <Kamion> MinimalUID=1000
[05:06] <Kamion> hmm
[05:06] <pitti> Kamion: I'll file a bug then and talk to him
[05:06] <Kamion> assign it to Mithrandir
[05:06] <pitti> yep, thanks
[05:06] <infinity> Or, GDM has crappy error messages. :)
[05:07] <pitti> infinity: that message is from VC1 (syslog, I guess)
[05:07] <pitti> gdm only tries to login and respawns without any message
[05:08] <Amaranth> pitti: what's wrong with lesstif2?
[05:08] <pitti> Amaranth: oh, we just got fed up with fixing security bugs in it, and we don't need it any more
[05:09] <pitti> Amaranth: we just needed it for xpdf
[05:09] <Amaranth> ah
[05:09] <Amaranth> well, less work for you, that's always good :)
[05:09] <zakame> ah indeed
[05:11] <irvin> pitti, must really have a boring job ;)
[05:11] <zakame> thanks pitti , Amaranth :)
[05:12] <azeem> pitti: so why didn't it get demoted to universe?
[05:12] <pitti> azeem: erm, I did?
[05:12] <pitti> oh, wait, hmm
[05:13] <pitti> azeem: it was in universe in breezy, I didn't touch it since then
[05:13] <azeem> well, people claimed it is not available, which sparked the discussion
[05:13] <pitti> no idea why it was removed completely
[05:13] <azeem> AIUI, it is built from a new source package now, which never got synced
[05:13] <azeem> but that is only from looking at IRC in passing
[05:13] <Kamion> lesstif2 is on the sync blacklist
[05:14] <Kamion> I imagine this is because the binaries were previously in a different source package, which tends to break syncs
[05:14] <Kamion> now that the binaries have been removed from lesstif1-1, it can probably be synced again
[05:14] <Kamion> talk to elmo to get the blacklist modified
[05:15] <Amaranth> so, maybe lesstif2 on monday, but still lots of security issues
[05:16] <Kamion> gtk-smooth-engine libxrender pygame xffm4 gnotime ispell-fi gcc-3.3 kgeography gnunet-gtk gutenprint initrd-netboot kde-icons-nuvola kde-style-lipstik mysql-dfsg-5.0 renderext zopeinterface allegro4.2 lesstif2 octave2.9 gal firefox-locale-ca firefox-locale-eu
[05:16] <Kamion> ^-- current sync blacklist
[05:16] <pitti> mysql-dfsg-5.0? ah, now I know why it isn't there
[05:17] <Amaranth> gutenprint :(
[05:17] <Amaranth> i thought gimpprint got dropped with the first sync
[05:17] <Kamion> generally all those are there because they broke for some reason, usually binaries also in other source packages
[05:17] <Amaranth> wait, i think seb128 was going to wait until after flight 1...
[05:20] <infinity> pitti: Yes, we need to get it unlisted on Monday, so I can start the transition. :)
[05:20] <pitti> infinity: I assume it was blacklisted due to mysql-common; I made 4.1 build -common right before the breezy release AFAIK
[05:21] <infinity> pitti: Yeah.  We'll sort all that.
[05:22] <pitti> sleep well
[05:28] <pitti> hmm, install CD asks me for a proxy although I told it to leave network unconfigured...
[05:28] <Kamion> known bug, reported many times, in Flight CD 2 release notes
[05:29] <Kamion> it's a consequence of the shift to apt-setup (although not unfixable)
[05:29] <pitti> ah, known
[05:32] <doko_> Kamion: wondering why gcc-3.3 is on the blacklist
[05:35] <Kamion> doko_: don't ask me
[05:35] <Kamion> I said above why (to my knowledge) packages are added to the blacklist
[05:35] <chninkel> where can we find the sync blacklist ?
[05:35] <Kamion> chninkel: I pasted it into IRC about twenty lines back
[05:36] <chninkel> Kamion: I saw, but I mean if I want to have the last sync blacklist
[05:36] <Kamion> it's not in any public location
[05:36] <chninkel> Kamion: ok
[05:38] <Kamion> maybe when the archive switches to launchpad it will be; there's no intrinsic reason for it to be private
[05:44] <zul> heylo
[05:46] <hunger> Hmmm... http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php claims ubuntu is not suitable for beginners.
[05:48] <tseng> people claim many things
[05:48] <jpatrick> pieces of land, etc
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> hunger, check their reasons, if they are logical and solvable, discuss.
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> hunger, things we can do nothing about, that can't be helped. and can just be that a fanboy wrote it.
[05:50] <HiddenWolf> there are a thousand of these things every month.
[05:52] <hunger> HiddenWolf: It is a distro-test recommended by prolinux.
[05:54] <jpatrick> hunger: that site recommends Gentoo to me
[05:59] <jon_kare> "Failed these criterias:" (sic!)
[05:59] <jon_kare> May require prior Linux knowledge
[05:59] <jon_kare> Not suitable for beginners
[06:00] <jon_kare> Requires partitioning knowledge
[06:00] <jon_kare> Exactly the same as for Debian.
[06:00] <jon_kare> When I answered honestly, it recommended Ubuntu *and* Debian
[06:00] <jon_kare> I suspect the test doesn't know the difference
[06:02] <LaserJock> sorry, what is the URL for that test?
[07:04] <pitti> good night
[07:09] <chninkel> does someone know why GLw was dropped in mesa packages ?
[07:19] <Amaranth> chninkel: GLw?
[07:21] <chninkel> Amaranth: seems to be opengl for lesstif
[07:21] <chninkel> Amaranth: from mesa changelog
[07:21] <chninkel> mesa (6.4.0-0ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
[07:21] <chninkel>  * Resynchronise with Debian; drop GLw (lesstif) and DirectFB support.
[07:22] <Amaranth> is it in another package?
[07:23] <chninkel> I didn't find
[07:36] <\sh> elmo: please sync omnievents from debian, dropping ubuntu changes thx
[08:01] <nekohayo> does anyone know the *reason* why gecko-based browsers are borked? (I'm just waiting patiently for a fix, but in the meantime I am curious)
[08:14] <nekohayo> oh wait.. the browsers started working again.. hurrah :) nevermind
[08:56] <marcin`> hello guys
[08:57] <marcin`> texinfo package in dapper is currently broken
[08:57] <zul> please open a bug
[08:57] <marcin`> postinst script says that there is no `update_ls_files` command
[08:57] <marcin`> could someone tell me what is this command from?
[09:22] <tuhl> when will be see a working beagle nautilus integration in drapper?
[09:22] <HiddenWolf> tuhl, it's dapper
[09:22] <HiddenWolf> tuhl, and ask upstream
[09:23] <Burgundavia> tuhl, not for dapper
[09:23] <tuhl> ok
[09:24] <tuhl> while updateing I just saw a deinstallation on beagle
[09:24] <Burgundavia> tuhl, I believe the nautilus stuff is already there, we are just not going to ship beagle by default
[09:24] <slomo> tuhl: that's another problem... i'll fix it now, thanks for noticing :)
[09:25] <tuhl> slomo: can I reinstall beagle right now?
[09:25] <slomo> no, not yet
[09:25] <tuhl> slomo: ok I wait
[09:26] <slomo> maybe already in one hour :)
[09:27] <tuhl> slomo: will you raise the version number?
[09:27] <tuhl> tu ubuntu3?
[09:29] <tuhl> what kind of search mechanism is used without beagle? find and grep?
[09:35] <slomo> tuhl: no, it will raise the version number of gmime2.1 / libgmime2.1-cil
[09:35] <jbailey> Anyone know how edubuntu solves the swap-over-nfs/nbd problem?  Or do they just not bother with swap?
[09:38] <neuralis> Burgundavia: i seem to recall there were plans to ship beagle with dapper, weren't there?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> neuralis, yes, but then we went for stability
[09:39] <Burgundavia> and less memory leaks
[09:39] <Burgundavia> I expect dapper+!
[09:39] <Burgundavia> 1
[09:40] <neuralis> Burgundavia: probably fair, beagle isn't quite the shining beacon of stability
[09:40] <tuhl> NLD 10 will contian it
[09:40] <tuhl> contain
[09:40] <Burgundavia> when is that due?
[09:40] <\sh> NLD?
[09:40] <neuralis> \sh: novell linux desktop
[09:40] <\sh> ah...
[09:40] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Stability good, occasionally. =)
[09:41] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Of course that means all the pent up frustration would be let out for +1. =)
[09:41] <Kamion> hmm, must figure out if I can get user_xattr turned on by default in the dapper installer
[09:41] <Kamion> that request's been on the table since Sydney
[09:41] <\sh> then it makes sense to have something like this in .... they need to increase their support fees ,)
[09:41] <Burgundavia> jbailey, I expect xen and beagle and all the crackish things to fly
[09:41] <Kamion> (and is needed for beagle, I'm told)
[09:42] <jbailey> Burgundavia: Dapper +1 also has major toolchain love planned for it.
[09:42] <Burgundavia> Kamion, don't think it is needed anymore
[09:42] <neuralis> Kamion: it's not strictly required, but there's hellpain without it.
[09:42] <Burgundavia> jbailey, dapper+1 is going to be so broken
[09:42] <\sh> jbailey: major toolchain? what is coming for dapper?
[09:42] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia, more than breezy? ;)
[09:42] <tuhl> NLD : April
[09:43] <jbailey> \sh: gcc-4.1 bring a pile of new Java love.  glibc-2.4 is a year and a bit of development effort.
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Kamion, beaglewiki says "optional but recommended", then talks about a fallback sqlite backend
[09:43] <jbailey> \sh: And so far noone's said anything bad about dropping pre-i686
[09:43] <Kamion> Has there been any progress on fixing mono/powerpc? I see it's still uninstallable.
[09:43] <neuralis> Kamion: read that as 'whenever we get around to shipping beagle, we really, really want to have user_xattr turned on' ;)
[09:44] <jbailey> \sh: With any luck, that will also bring multiarch to the archive.
[09:44] <Kamion> neuralis: these things being what they are, doing it in advance is good (since fresh-install is the only point when we get to change people's partitioning options)
[09:44] <neuralis> Kamion: aye, agreed.
[09:44] <slomo> Kamion: it's most probably a buildd problem... it can't be reproduced on other machines than the buildd, no matter how similar they are
[09:44] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, afaik beagle (when I tried it) only manages to find things like gaim logs and e-d-s data without xattr
[09:45] <\sh> jbailey: but it won't be any stress like breezy and gcc3.3 to gcc3.4/4.0?
[09:45] <slomo> Kamion: and on the buildd even older mono version, even in a breezy chroot ftbfs
[09:45] <jbailey> \sh: Anytime there's a major toolchain decision, there's always stress.
[09:45] <jbailey> \sh: The problem is that you can't forsee what the stress will be.
[09:45] <\sh> .oO(if jbailey says "Yes" now, then I have to find a good weapons shop(
[09:45] <slomo> jbailey: what major changes are planned for glibc 2.4? :)
[09:45] <Kamion> slomo: kernel issue? the buildds are running <IP_ADDRESS>, iirc
[09:46] <doko_> slomo: ssp
[09:46] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: ok, I'll see if I can turn it on in partman soon, then. Last time I tried it was unduly painful to do, but I could try to make it easier upstream.
[09:46] <\sh> jbailey: ok so the normal stress...but not "transition stress"
[09:47] <jbailey> slomo: It will be possible to audit the linker.  We'll drop LinuxThreads.  A bunch of internal cleanups.
[09:47] <jbailey> \sh: Well, consider that this last C++ allocator transition wasn't expected.
[09:47] <slomo> Kamion: no idea, i have no way to make extensive tests... i have no ppc64... but tseng has written a mail to lamont and infinity about it
[09:47] <jbailey> \sh: That's what I mean by it's not predictable.
[09:47] <\sh> jbailey: well...it wasn't much :)
[09:47] <jbailey> Sure, luckily.
[09:47] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, last time I saw beagle in action it caused jdub's ext3 to give out during a badger talk due to xattr mess, so i'm not pushing too hard. :)
[09:47] <\sh> jbailey: lets see when we can drop python2.3 completly
[09:47] <jbailey> =)
[09:48] <Kamion> slomo: oh, hang on, what is it that fails to build?
[09:48] <Kamion> mono_<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1_powerpc built fine
[09:48] <Kamion> oh, bleh, ls --version
[09:49] <Kamion> (-v, rather)
[09:49] <doko_> \sh: there exists a libstdc++-v7 branch ;-P
[09:49] <neuralis> Burgundavia: on a related note, has any thought been given to shipping f-spot?
[09:49] <\sh> jbailey: btw...do you want to talk about cdbs this month in MOTU school?
[09:50] <slomo> Kamion: mono 1.1.10 and above were tested by mvo on davis (?) and all failed (and 1.1.10 failed in a breezy chroot too)... 1.1.10 worked fine before everywhere... but someone else with an ppc64 could build mono without problems on a ppc64 with flight2 and very similar hardware... the bootstrapping works fine but at the point where the JIT comes into play it segfaults after some time
[09:50] <jbailey> \sh: IIRC, I suggested March. =)
[09:50] <jbailey> doko_: Are they using it to implement C++0x stuff?
[09:51] <\sh> jbailey: well..ok...then I will prepare something about pbuilder and chroots maybe
[09:51] <\sh> or actually about debian development tools
[09:51] <doko_> jbailey: didn't look yet, at least it has a new string implementation
[09:51] <Kamion> ah, well at least davis is a machine I can get at
[09:51] <jbailey> \sh: If you leave chroots to another month, I'll probably finish my dchroot tools sometime this month. =)
[09:52] <jbailey> \sh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/bzrtree/dchrootmgr/
[09:52] <slomo> Kamion: if you find something new please tell me :)
[09:53] <Kamion> sure - I've not touched mono before though, so don't expect too much
[09:54] <\sh> jbailey: I was thinking about writing something for this as well :)
[09:54] <jbailey> \sh: You're welcome to hack on it and feed me patches. =)
[09:54] <jbailey> \sh: (or do your own and I can abandon it)
[09:55] <\sh> jbailey: how do you want to include our "non root chroot" stuff? like sudoers and passwd <first user in the admin group?>
[09:55] <jbailey> \sh: What do you mean?
[09:55] <slomo> Kamion: well, even upstream have no idea what this could be ;) but as i fails even in different chroots i guess it could only be a kernel problem
[09:55] <jbailey> \sh: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=345488 is a patch I did for dchroot that might also be useful
[09:56] <\sh> jbailey: this is quite nice for biarch machines :)
[09:56] <Kamion> you could depend on user-setup and use /usr/lib/user-setup/user-setup-apply /target or something if you just want to duplicate what the installer does
[09:57] <\sh> jbailey: but I was talking about http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot :)
[09:57] <Kamion> (substitute path for /target)
[09:57] <jbailey> \sh: It will copy those files in.  Update them on a regular basis with ch-refresh
[09:58] <jbailey> \sh: Longer term they can either be synced in automatically with some sort of FUSE code to overlay, or a libnss module could be written that proxies authentication bits to the main system.
[09:59] <jbailey> (I don't think you can bind mount files)
[09:59] <\sh> jbailey: I was thinking especially about the sed call to shadow and then sudo tee it to chroot_dir/etc/shadow
[10:00] <jbailey> \sh: That's what I'm saying is all part of the refresh bit
[10:00] <jbailey> Oh, if you want a different password in the chroot from normal?
[10:00] <jbailey> No.
[10:00] <jbailey> Don't ever give root inside a chroot to someone you don't want to have it outside of the chroot.
[10:00] <jbailey> It's one of the ways that Linux is horribly broken, it doesn't have a segmented security infrastructure.
[10:01] <jbailey> If you want that, use Novell, Windows NT or the Hurd.
[10:01] <jbailey> Novell Netware, rather.
[10:01] <tuhl> rsbac
[10:02] <neuralis> jbailey: or xen.
[10:02] <jbailey> tuhl: I didn't think with rsbac you could delete root?
[10:02] <\sh> jbailey: I have other hobbies then using novell netware :) I just abandoned novell netware in 1988
[10:02] <jbailey> \sh: I still have my Master CNE. =)
[10:03] <Burgundavia> neuralis, that is jdub's balliwick. I suspect we are waiting for dapper+1 to make the mono hit worth it
[10:03] <tuhl> jbailey: what do you mean by delete root
[10:04] <neuralis> Burgundavia: yes, that's what i expected. the mono "killer app" trifecta is tomboy, f-spot, beagle. it'd be nice to ship all three eventually.
[10:04] <tuhl> i think we need mono
[10:04] <tuhl> banshee
[10:04] <jbailey> tuhl: Meaning that I want a system where I have no single user who ever has access  to everything.  No user should ever be able to see all of the kernels memory, or all of the filesystem, or be able to request access arbitrarily to IO ports.  Inside the kernel itself, these same truths should hold.
[10:04] <jbailey> tuhl: So that UID 0 means nothing in particular
[10:04] <Burgundavia> neuralis, yes
[10:04] <tuhl> jbailey: possible with rsbac as far as i know
[10:04] <Burgundavia> tuhl, banshee is debatable
[10:05] <\sh> jbailey: well...when you have ever tried to implement an additional LPT port in novell netware 3 with a different irq then 7 you were fcked, but it should had beed usable in netware 3...and it took me 4 days and 3 netware technicians to tell them netware 3 is not working with the netware certified hardware :)
[10:05] <\sh> s/beed/been/
[10:05] <Burgundavia> tuhl, kind of sad actually, to watch both rb and banshee do essientailly the same thing at the same time
[10:05] <jbailey> \sh: Eh, I did it a number of times.
[10:05] <jbailey> \sh: I ran some really large operations on Netware. =)
[10:05] <\sh> jbailey: with netware 3?
[10:06] <jbailey> \sh: Usually Netware 4.  Netware 3 only went up to 250 users.
[10:06] <neuralis> Burgundavia: agreed
[10:06] <jbailey> Not a "large installation" by any stretch of the imagination.
[10:06] <Burgundavia> neuralis, even the duplication of crazy things like the ipod libraries
[10:06] <neuralis> Burgundavia: yes, i've been wondering about that
[10:06] <jbailey> tuhl: Interesting, I'll have to look at that again, then.
[10:06] <\sh> jbailey: netware 4 i never touched :)
[10:06] <tuhl> i think ubunto needs mono for being competitive to other distros
[10:06] <neuralis> Burgundavia: seems like an enormous duplication of effort
[10:07] <tuhl> jbailey: I know the author of RSBAC
[10:07] <tuhl> RSBAC is plugable
[10:07] <jbailey> tuhl: The amount of work it would take to partition up the kernel internally would be huge.
[10:07] <neuralis> Burgundavia: otoh, i can't stand either rb or banshee, so it doesn't affect me as much.
[10:07] <Burgundavia> neuralis, muine user myself
[10:07] <tuhl> you can nearly implement every ACCESS Controll mechanism
[10:07] <neuralis> Burgundavia: likewise.
[10:08] <tuhl> jbailey: look a openvz
[10:08] <tuhl> another low overhead alternative
[10:08] <tuhl> for separating environments
[10:08] <\sh> tuhl: no we need something like mono and sharpdevelop for being competitive to other distros
[10:08] <tuhl> \sh: why like?
[10:09] <jbailey> tuhl: The trick isn't that I want separate environments.  I want to know that a poorly written driver can't arbitrarily ask for resources that it has no rights to.
[10:09] <tuhl> jbailey: ok
[10:09] <\sh> tuhl: because we should think about a ide which runs a) with pure mono and b) it should be useable on linux/unix and windows...
[10:10] <\sh> tuhl: including a compatible windows.forms interace and ui builder
[10:10] <\sh> interface even
[10:10] <tuhl> why not porintg mono develop to windows
[10:10] <neuralis> \sh: that hardly has anything to do with keeping us competitive with other distributions.
[10:10] <tuhl> evo runs already
[10:11] <neuralis> \sh: monodevelop is an application for a highly specific, narrow market segment
[10:11] <tuhl> GNOME will needs Mono for building Desktop apps faster that in C/C++
[10:11] <\sh> tuhl: because gtk on windows is evil...I'm using gimp e.g. on every windows machine i had hands on..and it was, to be honest, not comparable with the linux version...it was at least 3 times slower then on linux...
[10:12] <tuhl> \sh this can be tuned
[10:12] <neuralis> tuhl: gnome is unsure about embracing mono for political reasons.
[10:12] <slomo> tuhl: why does it need mono for that? python is good for this too ;)
[10:12] <tuhl> slomo: no
[10:13] <tuhl> one languaga is not fitting to all problems
[10:13] <\sh> neuralis: well...sharpdevelop gives you a nice interface for vb.net and c# including a very good forms designer
[10:13] <\sh> neuralis: importing new .net classes and libs is very easy..and it has a wide audience...and it's free
[10:14] <slomo> tuhl: yes, that's why i prefer having python and mono (for c#, boo, whatever)... but well, not very useful to argue about this *shrug*
[10:14] <\sh> neuralis: http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx
[10:14] <neuralis> \sh: sure, but i'm not sure that adds up to a big argument about being competitive with other distributions.
[10:14] <tuhl> slomo: that is the reason why I promotet the php4mono compiler
[10:15] <tuhl> neuralis: we need mono for getting competitive apps on GNOME
[10:15] <\sh> neuralis: it can make linux/unix in general a competitive development solution for windows and linux/unix apps...forgetting windows xp
[10:15] <tuhl> \sh: I agree
[10:15] <\sh> tuhl: you don't need mono...you could use python as well
[10:16] <tuhl> no python has a central interpreter lock
[10:16] <Burgundavia> \sh, yes you could, but people are using mono, so you might as well embrace it
[10:16] <tuhl> this is a design flaw
[10:16] <neuralis> \sh: of course, but that has nothing to do with competitiveness with other linux distributions :)
[10:16] <tuhl> ADA was the latest development language :-)
[10:17] <neuralis> tuhl: well, it's arguably a design flaw
[10:17] <tuhl> the last I meant
[10:17] <neuralis> tuhl: and in any case, getting competitive apps for gnome with mono is still a questionable topic
[10:17] <tuhl> neuralis: yes and you need to manny library bindings in a non Mono world
[10:18] <\sh> Burgundavia: ironpython will be the change :)
[10:18] <slomo> \sh: and it has a not very friendly license iirc... but better ask ajmitch about it, he took a look at it ;)
[10:18] <neuralis> \sh: pypy will be the change ;)
[10:19] <tuhl> without mono we will have to provide bindings for all interpreters / langiages separately
[10:19] <tuhl> this sucks all enegry out of the OSS movement
[10:20] <tuhl> every year a news language (perl, python, php, ruby, ...) and for all languages a bindung to TK, gtk, motif, Windows,
[10:20] <neuralis> tuhl: the community at large, starting with gnome, still isn't convinced mono is kosher.
[10:21] <tuhl> where is a problem with ISO standardized byte code enviroments
[10:21] <Kamion> slomo: well, I found that the failure is non-deterministic ...
[10:21] <mjg59> Red Hat aren't likely to ship Mono unless it becomes a business requirement
[10:21] <tuhl> I am not speaking of ASP.NET
[10:21] <\sh> tuhl: well...whoever invented bindings for gtk or qt to php..he was on crack...
[10:21] <slomo> Kamion: yes, that is nothing new ;) it fails at compiling one of the first .cs files, but not always the same
[10:21] <Kamion> ok
[10:22] <Kamion> you didn't tell me that :)
[10:22] <\sh> mjg59: most likely they are waiting for the run to the court of MS and Novell ;)
[10:22] <slomo> Kamion: no, i didn't thought about it... sorry
[10:24] <tuhl> slomo: what about beagle?
[10:25] <slomo> tuhl: update your sources and try to install it... should work now unless you're on ppc
[10:26] <tuhl> slomo: ok
[10:26] <doko_> \sh: does ooqstart actually work for you?
[10:27] <\sh> doko_: I'll see tomorrow when I install latest dapper cd
[10:28] <\sh> doko_: right now I have only one dapper chroot on amd64 and ssh -X to amd64 machine and dchroot to dapper chroot will give me troubles showing remotely the output of X apps
[10:28] <slomo> tuhl: btw, what exactly do you want? everybody will continue to use the language and runtime enviromnent he likes most and feels best-suited for the problem *shrug* when someone needs scheme bindings for gtk let him do it :) mono definitely isn't the only and perfect solution for everything
[10:29] <mjg59> \sh: Do you have the same home directory in the chroot as outside it? Is your DISPLAY variable still set in the chroot?
[10:29] <tuhl> slomo: we will see.... installing beagle....
[10:29] <\sh> mjg59: yes
[10:32] <\sh> well..actually I can't install it strange
[10:33] <\sh> ah yes...it's not build yet for amd64 :)
[10:33] <\sh> doko_: what is not working?
[10:34] <\sh> mjg59: this is the error message :)
[10:34] <\sh> (dapper_chroot)shermann@amd64-home:~/packages/dapper/ooqstart/new$ xterm
[10:34] <\sh> xterm: Error 32, errno 0: Success
[10:34] <\sh> Reason: get_pty: not enough ptys
[10:34] <tuhl> slomo: beagle seems to work - thanks
[10:34] <mjg59> \sh: Uh. And do any other X apps work?
[10:37] <\sh> mjg59: give me one moment..I have to break my chroot completly :)
[10:37] <\sh> apt-get install ubuntu-desktop *gnarf*
[10:38] <Kamion> \sh: mount /dev/pts?
[10:38] <\sh> Kamion: it's mounted correctly
[10:38] <Kamion> or bind-mount /dev and /dev/pts from the real root
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount --bind /home /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/home
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount --bind /tmp /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/tmp
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount -t proc proc /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/proc
[10:39] <\sh> sudo mount -t devpts devpts /home/shermann/$MOUNTPOINT/dev/pts
[10:40] <\sh> where $MOUNTPOINT is set to $whatever chroot I want..example dapper dapper_i386 breezy hoary
[10:40] <Kamion> you need /dev too
[10:41] <\sh> Kamion: it's working when i'm directly on the machine with a running x server...
[10:42] <\sh> Kamion: so when a monitor is attached ...
[11:05] <sabdf1> off to uganda - cheers all
[11:08] <\sh> mjg59: gedit e.g. works
[11:08] <mjg59> \sh: You have an issue with /dev, then
[11:11] <\sh> mjg59: yepp.../dev/pty* are not created
[11:12] <Kamion> \sh: bind-mounting /dev from the real root should give you /dev/ptmx, which will make Unix98 ptys work
[11:13] <\sh> Kamion: this should be mentioned as well on the wiki page
[11:14] <Kamion> go forth and edit the wiki page, then ... I didn't write it
[11:15] <\sh> Kamion: it's done already right now :)


[07:25] <kingargon> does anyone here have experience with jflash?
[13:38] <cojocar> what is the default user and password for maverik on beagle (-netbook-armel-omap.img)?
[13:39] <ogra_> cojocar, there is none
[13:39] <ogra_> you have to run through the installer first
[13:40] <cojocar> how do I run the installer? it's just boots and gives me the login prompt
[13:40] <ogra_> what beagle revision is that ?
[13:41] <ogra_> Cx, Bx, XM ?
[13:41] <cojocar> C3
[13:41] <ogra_> ah, might be that you dont boot the right kernel and initrd
[13:41] <ogra_> did you read the installation docs ?
[13:41] <ogra_> it might be booting from NAND instead of the SD
[13:42] <cojocar> oh, i've used this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
[13:42] <cojocar> hmm, I will try to use the boot.scr file
[13:43] <ogra_> "On older Beagleboards"
[13:43] <ogra_> see that section
[13:43] <ogra_> though i wouldnt recommend running the netbook image on a C beagle
[13:43] <ogra_> it doesnt have enough ram
[13:43] <ogra_> it will run but wont be any fun to use
[13:44] <cojocar> yes, thanks
[13:44] <cojocar> that was missing, I was booting without initrd
[13:44] <ogra_> we have a headless image for such devices in 11.04
[13:46] <cojocar> what does `headless' mean?
[13:48] <ogra_> ist a minimal cmdline image you can run and configure via serial ... it offers to install a desktop env during the install process
[13:48] <ogra_> so you could i.e. install xubuntu-desktop or lubuntu-desktop to have something more suited for that amoount of resources
[13:49] <ogra_> (needs network for the desktop part though)
[13:51] <cojocar> oh, network install
[13:51] <ogra_> no
[13:51] <ogra_> the base system is there ... network is only used for adding desktop bits
[13:51] <ogra_> if you want to go with cmdline you dont need network at all
[13:53] <cojocar> thanks, I will try the headless image then
[13:55] <cojocar> the steps are the same, as with Maverik?
[13:55] <cojocar> found it :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPHeadlessInstall
[13:55] <cojocar> thanks again ogra_
[13:56] <ogra_> :)
[13:56] <ogra_> if you have issues, just ask again
[15:12] <robclark> rsalveti, hrw, have you been able to (or tried to) cross compile tools/perf from kernel git tree?
[15:13] <rsalveti> never tried, remember we had issues with it during last cycle
[15:13] <robclark> there was a bit of retardness of hard-coded libelf include path in the Makefile, but that is easy enough to fix..  but now I realize that arm gcc cross compiler (at least for Maverick) doesn't have -print-sysroot..
[15:14] <rsalveti> cooloney: ^
[15:40] <hrw> hi
[15:40] <hrw> robclark: can try
[15:41] <robclark> hi hrw
[15:43] <hrw> rebuilding gcc-cross now
[17:27] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: the magic to make BT work with ubuntu's kernel http://paste.ubuntu.com/603343/
[17:27] <rsalveti> still not tested
[17:28] <rsalveti> that annoying messages after booting the kernel is from bt/fm
[17:29] <GrueMaster> Ah, ok.  Somethig for SRU fix?
[17:29] <GrueMaster> /Somethig/Something
[17:36] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: we still don't have the proper fix
[17:36] <rsalveti> this requires the daemon to be loaded at the correct time frame
[17:36] <GrueMaster> Understood.  Not saying it has to happen now.
[17:37] <rsalveti> would be good to have as SRU
[17:37] <rsalveti> let's see when agreen gets the real fix
[17:39] <GrueMaster> I'm patient.  I can wait until tomorrow.  :P
[20:08] <kingargon> why people come here just to idle? i never understood that about irc
[20:09] <kingargon> there are 105 people in this channel and no one has said a damn thing in the last 12 hrs.!
[20:14] <armin76> kingargon: i saw some activity before you joined
[20:16] <GrueMaster> kingargon: I just posted less than 3 hours ago.
[20:17] <ogra_> kingargon, well, do you have a question ? just ask :)
[20:17] <GrueMaster> And some campers (like myself) use an irc proxy to capture all conversations while they are away.
[20:34] <rsalveti> that changes a lot of the day
[20:35] <rsalveti> and people are buys this week preparing the stuff for uds
[20:35] <rsalveti> *busy


[01:23] <WhiteXiao> Anyone could look at my problem here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=534963


[00:04] <LSD|Ninja> I just noticed there a new version of the 96.xx.xx nVidia drivers. How long befopre they make it into the repos?
[00:04] <Light-> eh, 96.xx.xx is the really old version isnt it? I thought we were up to 176.xx.xx or something
[00:05] <Light-> ohwait, I guess the 96.xx.xx drivers are for the really old cards
[00:06] <Light-> dont mind me :P
[00:06] <LSD|Ninja> Yeah, my Ubuntu machine has a GF2MX400 :P
[01:59] <elik> Hi, I am a Debian Lenny user and recently switched over to Ubuntu (Kubuntu actually) Hardy Heron. I am a little disappointed to see that the version of some programs I used is more outdated that on Debian, and I am considering upgrading to Ubuntu I... I... How stable is it compared to Lenny?
[02:00] <Light-> Try it and see, stability usually varies from user to user because people use their systems differently
[02:01] <Light-> run it in vbox for a while if you want to keep debian around incase you discover its more stable
[02:01] <LSD|Ninja> Normal releases are reasonably stable, Intrepid is very much alpha software at present so lots of things are very, very broken
[02:02] <elik> Hum
[02:03] <elik> I'll give it a try, my system is brand new
[02:04] <elik> if it breaks, it won't be too much of a pain to just reinstall it
[02:04] <elik> They always told me I was a risk taker :P
[02:04] <elik> Is it as simple as changing the sources, updating and dist-upgrading?
[02:05] <LSD|Ninja> elik: update-manager -d will do it all for you
[02:05] <LSD|Ninja> Probably better to set aside a machine or partition seperate to your main install and use a CD to install though
[02:06] <elik> why is that?
[02:06] <elik> direct update like that is not so reliable?
[02:07] <elik> considering I just installed the system today, is that worth the hassle?
[02:07] <elik> as long as my other partitions are untouched, I'm fine with reinstalling hardy
[02:09] <elik> hum, update-manager sound like a bad idea, considering I'm on KDE
[02:09] <LSD|Ninja> there's probably somethign similar for KDE, I'm not familiar enough with kubuntu to know what it is though
[02:10] <elik> yeah, adept installer, but I don't see anywhere where I can change the version
[02:10] <elik> anyway, I'll look it up, thx
[02:13] <LSD|Ninja> you might be able to download the Alpha CD and ue that as an upgrade source
[02:18] <elik> a small 624Mb to fetch, heh
[03:12] <elik> lol
[03:12] <elik> was not a good idea
[03:12] <elik> :D
[03:21] <LSD|Ninja> elik: ?
[03:21] <elik> well, it messed with the graphic card a bit
[03:21] <elik> and nothing would display anymore
[03:22] <elik> kernel XX.26 would just show some pink squares
[03:22] <elik> and xx.24 didn't work any better :P
[03:22] <elik> so I think we'll forget that
[03:22] <LSD|Ninja> yeah, usplash has a bunch of issues atm
[03:22] <elik> I see
[03:23] <elik> well, that's not as stable as I thought, but I guess now I know the true meaning of Alpha stage :P
[03:25] <LSD|Ninja> we did warn you :P
[03:25] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:26] <elik> lol, you sure did
[03:26] <elik> It was funny anyway
[03:27] <LSD|Ninja> I think the purpose of these first few Alphas is to get the stuff merged in from Debian working happily and then they'll start fine tuning the new stuff
[03:29] <elik> yeah, I assume it gets more and more stable as you close in to the release date
[03:29] <elik> When did Hardy Heron release?
[03:29] <Hobbsee> 8.04 == april 2008
[03:30] <LSD|Ninja> 8.10 is due for release in october so there's still a fair way to go yet
[03:31] <elik> indeed
[03:34] <elik> anyhow, thanks for your support
[03:35] <elik> and keep up the good work on Intrepid Ibex
[04:07] <sparky01> does anyone know if Sound Juicer is going to be the default ripper in Ubuntu going forward?
[04:08] <sparky01> ???
[04:11] <sparky01> well don't all answer at once!
[04:11] <sparky01> lol
[04:26] <crd1b> fail
[04:40] <khermans> anyone have Flash sound working?
[04:40] <khermans> or is it b0rked?
[04:41] <khermans> i fixed the Xorg issues temporarily by -> $ sudo aptitude remove xserver-xorg gdm && sudo sed -i "s/intrepid/hardy/g" /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install xserver-xorg gdm
[04:42] <khermans> however, my flashplugin-nonfree version 10 gets no sound in firefox
[04:42] <khermans> yay for closed sources!
[05:39] <gluer> hi, does alpha 2 address nvidia support?
[06:39] <SwedeMike> any idea if 8.10 will support centrino 2 well? (thinking of for instance the lenovo X200)
[08:18] <LSD|Ninja> SwedeMike: No reason to assume it won't
[08:18] <SwedeMike> it's brand new, it was out after 2.6.26 was frozen, that's why I'm wondering
[08:19] <SwedeMike> but hopefully intel has participated in kernel development and put support for the devices ahead of time
[08:19] <LSD|Ninja> There doesn't look as though there's that much new to support
[08:26] <SwedeMike> let's hope so
[10:34] <joaopinto> Hello, for testing purposes should I use the alpha 2 cd or a daily cd image ?
[11:06] <LSD|Ninja> They make daily CD images? *headdesks*
[11:14] <joaopinto> yes, they do
[11:17] <knurra> rsync -vz rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily/current/intrepid-alternate-i386.iso .
[11:17] <catweazle> LSD|Ninja: look here http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/
[12:55] <sven-tek> Filing a bug, and nobody seems to care about it, is frustrating... (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/246952)
[13:19] <alex_mayorga> !java
[13:57] <linkinxp> hello i need information in how to see the log of grub?? cause when its loading i see an error but i goes to fast.....
[14:28] <Vegar> is it possible to install the 2.6.26 kernel from intrepid on hardy?
[16:26] <avik42> hiya, I just installed Kubuntu Intrepid Alpha 2 .. I can sudo just fine but when I try to use Hardware Driver Manager it says I need to give root password.. what is the root password?  I didn't have a dialog to set it at install time and it's not the same as my sudo password .. thanks
[16:27] <JontheEchidna> It should ask you for your sudo password...
[16:28] <avik42> that's what I thought .. but when I type in my sudo password .. it says wrong password .. but if I do sudo in terminal it takes it just fine
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> Might try asking _Tonio in #kubuntu-devel
[16:28] <avik42> kk thanks :)
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> er, Tonio_
[17:33] <LSD|Ninja> What was the point of the latest nvidia-96 update if it was a version bump to 96.43.07?
[17:35] <LSD|Ninja> wasn't*
[17:41] <G_009> update-manager kept coming up with 'could not calculate upgrade'; tried apt-get and it went thru no problem
[17:41] <mvo> G_009: for what upgrade situation?
[17:42] <G_009> 163 updates
[17:43] <G_009> i call it the 'partial upgrade' bug
[17:46] <G_009> i was specting to have to reboot after such extensive update.. i'll do it anyway
[18:55] <linux1> can someone check something for me before i file a bug the sshmenu-gnome install's but i cant add it to the gnome panel
[19:52] <amikrop> Hello. I have a Game Boy Advance game (in an actuall Game Boy disquette). Is there any way I can play it in my pc?
[19:53] <JontheEchidna> in Ubuntu?
[19:54] <amikrop> yes
[19:56] <JontheEchidna> So you have the cartridge?
[19:56] <amikrop> What is the cartridge?
[19:56]  * JontheEchidna doesn't know of any cartridge-ripping hardware that has linux drivers
[19:56] <JontheEchidna> The plastic thing that GBA games come on
[19:57] <amikrop> JontheEchidna: yes
[19:57] <amikrop> I do have it.
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> [14:56:50] * JontheEchidna doesn't know of any cartridge-ripping hardware that has linux drivers
[19:58] <amikrop> JontheEchidna: So, there is not any way I can play my game, in my computer?
[19:59] <JontheEchidna> uh, sorta
[20:00] <JontheEchidna> you'd have to do legally questionable things that I'm not sure I'm allowed to discuss here
[20:01] <JontheEchidna> anyway, general ubuntu support is in #ubuntu, this is for the development version of ubuntu
[22:39] <Jordan_U> Is LRM likely to be working by alpha 3 ?
[22:44] <gluer> Hi, Q: I've got a Nvidia Geforce Go 7600 in laptop, ive installed all the latest updates and im still stuck in low res, how can i get 1680*1050 in intrepid?
[22:50] <Jordan_U> gluer, AFIK the proprietary drivers are broken currently
[22:51] <Jordan_U> gluer, You can try using the 'nv' driver if you are not already
[22:51] <gluer> Jordan: nv driver?
[22:51] <gluer> off the website?
[22:52] <markit> hi, my laptop boots in textual mode with kernel 2.6.24, but can't see anything with 2.6.26 (nvidia), any suggested setup or boot time parameter?
[22:57] <AtomicSpark> they should keep alpha as intended. in house/dev only beta testing. :P
[22:59] <Jordan_U> AtomicSpark, It's the open source way, release early, release often and warn about the possible killing of your dog
[23:01] <AtomicSpark> Jordan_U: people always miss or ignore the warning though :\
[23:08] <gluer> holy crap!! fixed my nvidia! finally
[23:08] <gluer> lol
[23:09] <markit> gluer: I've problems with nvidia as well
[23:09] <gluer> about ffkn time
[23:09] <markit> with my laptop
[23:09] <markit> oh, no, does not show anything here :(
[23:09] <gluer> i followed this, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=856227
[23:10] <markit> with kernel 2.6.24 I've no graphic (error setting MTRR), while with kernel 26.26 I've no output at all
[23:10] <gluer> i just modified the xorg.conf file
[23:10] <markit> I've not checked closed source (evil) driver
[23:10] <gluer> changed the section "device"
[23:13] <gluer> then changed the section "screen" to my correct res
[23:13] <gluer> for some reason my section "device" was identified as "device1" which i changed to "device0"
[23:15] <gluer> nv driver version 173.14.09
[23:16] <markit> gluer: oh, could you pastebin me your xorg.conf please? the relevant (whole) sections?
[23:17] <markit> gluer: even if is strange that with kernel 2.6.24 I've graphic image (gray) with X cursor, then returns to textual
[23:17] <markit> while with more recent kernels, I've no image at all (nor textual)
[23:18] <gluer> markit: sure..ive never used pastebin though, whats the deal?
[23:18] <markit> gluer: and where do you find if device0 or device1 or deviceX is correct?
[23:19] <markit> gluer: www.pastebin.ca, and copy/paste your xorg.conf, then submit and write here the link it returns
[23:19] <markit> or we could go in private and you can paste me some small pieces of config
[23:21] <gluer> markit: http://www.pastebin.ca/1076000
[23:22] <markit> gluer: thanks a lot, I will try :)
[23:22] <gluer> markit: its messy but i hope it helps
[23:23] <gluer> now got to get my sound working lol!
[23:24] <crimsun_> what's wrong w/ your sound?
[23:26] <markit> gluer: unfortunatly, I've still "error setting MTRR"
[23:27] <gluer> markit: bugger
[23:27] <markit> gluer: what do you mean?
[23:27] <gluer> markit: just aussie slang ;-) lol
[23:34] <gluer> q: when i boot into gui i hear the drum sound, then when i login the sound doesnt work, any ideas how to fix this? my laptop is a asus fj3  or something
[23:43] <markit> ok, let's format and go back to a more stable 8.04 :) thanks a lot anyway, bye


[00:03] <billytwowilly> so I dragged a file onto vlc from pcmanfm and it dissapeared...
[00:03] <billytwowilly> normally that plays the file.
[00:03] <billytwowilly> this time it deleted it, or moved it some place non-obvious
[00:59] <comradekingu> has anyone tried lubuntu 12.10 with unetbooting persistent storage UBIFS, seems like its not quite ready for prime
[09:54] <thiefy> how can i make x11vnc start before i have to login to the desktop?  meaning, if the computer reboots, i want to be able to vnc to it, and then login to the desktop enviroment.
[09:54] <thiefy> i've seen instructions on the net, but they are obsolete, they tell you to play with files that aren't there these days.
[10:00] <jude0> mooooo, add a line to /etc/xdg/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart
[10:16] <mooooo> i tried that.... failure....   though, i now just took it outta my autostart folder.   ~/.config/autostart
[10:17] <mooooo> rebooting... see if she works.
[10:18] <mooooo> works great. though, problem is, i don't have to login to the computer to use it.
[10:49] <mooooo> ok, i was wrong. taht does NOT work jude0
[10:50] <mooooo> i can vnc into the computer AFTER i log in just fine. but i want this to be able to vnc to the computer, and THEN login to it.
[11:19] <jude0> mooooo maybe /etc/xdg/openbox/autostart
[11:30] <mooooo> (i'm using peppermint) but it's the same as what you've said...   i see both dirs that you've mentioned.
[11:30] <mooooo> i'll try it in the openbox autostart and see how that goes.
[11:31] <mooooo> instead of /etc/xdg/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart   i have this: /etc/xdg/lxsession/Peppermint/autostart    but i'll try it in here: /etc/xdg/openbox/autostart
[16:57] <thiefy> how can i make a program run before x launches?
[16:58] <thiefy> i want to have x11vnc start and be able for me to vnc into it - before i have to log into the normal desktop.
[17:06] <holstein> thiefy: that will be simiar for all ubuntu/debian/linux
[17:07] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/83824/how-can-i-start-a-vnc-server-before-log-on
[17:07] <holstein> vino is what i have used in the past
[17:07] <holstein> http://www.abdevelopment.ca/blog/start-vnc-server-ubuntu-boot
[17:34] <thiefy> holstein,  i did what the site says:   then at this part, i'll show you what i get....
[17:34] <thiefy> Make the script executable with sudo chmod +x /etc/init.d/vncserver.
[17:34] <thiefy> Then, run sudo update-rc.d vncserver defaults. This adds the appropriate symlinks to the vncserver script so that it is sent the start and stop commands at the appropriate time.
[17:34] <thiefy> Make the script executable with sudo chmod +x /etc/init.d/vncserver.
[17:34] <thiefy> Then, run sudo update-rc.d vncserver defaults. This adds the appropriate symlinks to the vncserver script so that it is sent the start and stop commands at the appropriate time.
[17:35] <thiefy> usage: update-rc.d [-n] [-f] <basename> remove
[17:35] <thiefy>        update-rc.d [-n] <basename> defaults [NN | SS KK]
[17:35] <thiefy>        update-rc.d [-n] <basename> start|stop NN runlvl [runlvl] [...] .
[17:35] <thiefy>        update-rc.d [-n] <basename> disable|enable [S|2|3|4|5]
[17:35] <thiefy> 		-n: not really
[17:35] <thiefy> 		-f: force
[17:35] <thiefy> The disable|enable API is not stable and might change in the future.
[17:35] <thiefy> it doesn't like taht update-rc.d vncserver command.
[17:36] <thiefy> any thoughts?  i'll keep playing...
[17:40] <holstein> thiefy: i literally installed vino and ran vino-preferences and used it
[17:43] <thiefy> heh, i am reading vino is a good choice. but does it create another x session for vnc or does it use display 0 ?
[17:45] <holstein> thiefy: i just logged in as whatever user i wanted
[18:09] <thiefy> i am gonna try vino. this is just stupid....
[18:31] <thiefy> holstein,  and i assume vino started up and allowed you to vnc in before you had to do the normal login to the os right?
[18:32] <holstein> thiefy: correct
[18:32] <thiefy> what about freenx  ? ever used it?
[18:34] <holstein> freenx and nomachine
[18:34] <holstein> its not vnc
[18:34] <holstein> if you want it, its great... but its not remote desktop.. its forwarding a desktop session
[18:35] <holstein> a lot like forwarding an application over ssh, but its an entire desktop
[18:35] <thiefy> oh, i don't want that.
[18:35] <thiefy> i want the vnc standard.
[18:36] <thiefy> and i don't want another X to run. i just want to forward the one that boots.
[18:37] <holstein> well, its quite nice. quite a bit more usable
[18:37] <holstein> personally, i dont do vnc anymore.. its not usable for most of what i want to do
[18:37] <holstein> i just forward one application over ssh, or use nomachine
[18:37] <thiefy> what's the diff between nomachine and normal vnc?
[18:41] <holstein> thiefy: as i said, vnc forwards the desktop.. allwing you to control a current session ..freenx/nomachin forwards a session.. its much more like a desktop
[18:41] <holstein> what would i do? just try them both and see what fits your needs, and what works
[18:42] <thiefy> what i am really only worried about is the method taht is lightest on the computer, and the fastest.
[18:42] <thiefy> whcih is why i keep saying i don't want to initiate another x session... you know what i mean?
[18:50] <holstein> depends on what you are wanting
[18:50] <holstein> if you need VNC< then you need it.. there is no lighter way
[18:50] <holstein> nomachine is faster feelling and seems more native, but its not vnc
[18:52] <thiefy> i hear ya. i'll see how this vino goes.
[18:53] <thiefy> i have to wait for a file transfer to finish before i can reboot and make sure it works as expected.
[18:53] <Unit193> So are you looking for something like http://seb.so/vnc-from-boot-without-logging-in-ubuntu-lubuntu-xubuntu-and-mint-lmde/ ?  (Don't use the Lubuntu/LXDM method)
[18:55] <thiefy> i read that page, and i didn't do it cause        Put this in /etc/lxdm/LoginReady:       that part i stopped at cause that file or anything like it doesn't exist.
[18:56] <Unit193> Yeah, Lubuntu uses lightdm, not lxdm.
[18:57] <thiefy> lxdm and lxde are different right?
[18:58] <thiefy> if i do     ls /etc/lxdm       or ls /etc/lxde     both return nothing (the folders don't exist)
[18:58] <thiefy> that's why i said screw it to those instructions.
[18:59] <thiefy> i'm copying a 2 gig file over usb 1.0. heheh. (old computer) after the transfer is done, i'll reboot and see how vino goes.  then if it works i can thank you muchly and we don't have to care about this x11vnc anymore. hahah
[19:11] <kiwo> hi! How do you do to start an application at the boot?
[19:14] <thiefy> put a .desktop file into ~/.config/autostart/
[19:15] <kiwo> ah ok
[19:15] <kiwo> it's simple :)
[19:15] <thiefy> yar laddie.
[19:23] <thiefy> hey holstein i have a probaly obvious question.... if i run a program like say transmission using   X over ssh and it's downloading a iso... then i close the window, it would close the transmission on the server right?  (i want to be able to run transmission, make it dl a iso, close the ssh, and come back (meaning ssh back in later) and see if it's finished downloading.
[19:28] <Unit193> Yes, that would close and shutdown the application.
[19:31] <thiefy> is there a way to make it not do that? heh.
[19:32] <Unit193> Does transmission have a daemon mode?
[19:35] <thiefy> yeah, it looks like it does. good thinking. thanks.   :    quantal (net): lightweight BitTorrent client (command line programs)
[19:35] <thiefy> 2.61-0ubuntu2: amd64 i386
[19:36] <thiefy> ^ that's transmission package.
[19:56] <thiefy> holstein,  i have vino installed, i did the preferences thingy too. but i can't connect to it.  how do i know it is running at boot? and ready to accept my connection before login to the desktop?
[19:57] <thiefy> holstein,  the preferences don't let me tweak much... like the port and stuff, so i'm assuming it's the default 5900 port...
[19:57] <Unit193> You can check with netstat, and can check if it's even running with  ps aux | grep vino
[19:58] <thiefy> mika@comcrap ~ $ ps ax | grep vino
[19:58] <thiefy>  1458 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep --colour=auto vino
[19:58] <thiefy> that's all i get.
[19:58] <thiefy> so i think that means it's not running.
[19:58] <thiefy> of course...
[19:59] <thiefy> i want it to run right at boot - before i have to login to the computer.
[20:00] <Unit193> !info transmission-daemon
[20:01] <Unit193> thiefy: I've never used vino, but I'd try having it run after lightdm with upstart.
[20:03] <thiefy> uhh, i have a computer that is headless.  when the computer boots, i want to be able to vnc to it.  i can't go over to it, log in, then run back to my client computer and then do the vnc to it.
[20:11] <kiwo> bye
[20:12] <Unit193> (I don't do that either, I use ssh)
[20:13] <thiefy> is there a way to ssh into it and do some command to log it into the desktop?
[20:14] <Unit193> Well, you can start VNC, but there's no point to doing that when you can have that on autostart.
[20:14] <thiefy> vnc doesn't start unless i login. that's the problem.
[20:15] <Unit193> It's all in how it's setup.
[20:15] <thiefy> if i go over to the computer, login to the desktop, go back to the client - then do vnc, it's fine. but i don't want to have to do that.
[20:16] <Unit193> So if you setup vnc (via vino, or x11vnc after lightdm), you shouldn't have that issue.
[20:16] <thiefy> i have setup vnc many times, x11vnc and vino - they work great AFTER i log into the desktop...
[20:18] <Unit193> So if you use the method in http://seb.so/vnc-from-boot-without-logging-in-ubuntu-lubuntu-xubuntu-and-mint-lmde/  (again, not the Lubuntu/LXDM method!)  it doesn't work?
[20:19] <thiefy> right.
[20:19] <thiefy> i read that page, and i didn't do it cause        Put this in /etc/lxdm/LoginReady:       that part i stopped at cause that file or anything like it doesn't exist.
[20:19] <thiefy> if i do     ls /etc/lxdm       or ls /etc/lxde     both return nothing (the folders don't exist)
[20:19] <thiefy> that's why i said screw it to those instructions.
[20:21] <Unit193> That's why I've said twice to ignore the Lubuntu/lxdm part of it.......
[20:21] <Unit193> Lubuntu doesn't use LXDM, they use lightdm.
[20:27]  * genii-around slides everyone a really strong coffee


[23:02] <ailo> I've only quickly looked through the .config file for linux-source-2.6.38, but it seems it is very similar to -lowlatency now. At least the preempt settings seems to be the same.
[23:57] <ailo> Sorry :). I was comparing the -lowlatency to -lowlatency. I was wondering how come the -generic is as fast as -lowlatency, though


[08:20] <dholbach> good morning
[14:02] <highvoltage> good morning dholbach
[14:02] <dholbach> hey highvoltage


[10:05] <jP_wanN> hello
[10:05] <jP_wanN> is this the right place to ask something about the ubuntu-android project?
[10:05] <ogra_`> well, ask and we'll see
[10:07] <jP_wanN> it's about the OUYA. That's a new android-based console. I wanted to know whether Ubuntu android could run on there
[10:07] <jP_wanN> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouya
[10:08] <jP_wanN> a friend of mine got positive feedback from the OUYA CEO about a partnership with canonical.
[10:08] <jP_wanN> http://forums.ouya.tv/discussion/646/ubuntu-for-ouya
[10:09] <jP_wanN> but we didn't get any response when writing to canonical via mail
[10:18] <kulve> why ubuntu-android? Why not plain android?
[10:18] <kulve> argh
[10:18] <kulve> why ubuntu-android? Why not plain ubuntu?
[10:21] <ogra_`> jP_wanN, well, would you want to have "ubuntu for android" which essentially acts like an app ... or would you want to actually run ubuntu (whouch would be Ubuntu Touch, which also is android based but a full OS)
[10:22] <ogra_`> while there is the opportunity to run a plain ubuntu as well, with the switch to Mir you really want ubuntu touch on such a device (unless you want to run it as a plain server)
[10:22] <kulve> why not X.Org?
[10:23] <jP_wanN> well, I'll definitely try to install normal ubuntu on it as soon as I have a console to play with
[10:23] <jP_wanN> but the question was about running ubuntu as an app within the preinstalled system
[10:24] <ogra_`> right, thats ubuntu for android ... which is actually depending on the manufacturer talking to canonical directly
[10:25] <jP_wanN> okay, thanks for the information
[10:25] <jP_wanN> but is there a way to install ubuntu for android on an existing system?
[10:26] <ogra_`> there are no public images for it
[10:26] <jP_wanN> I know it is officially only possible to have it preinstalled
[10:26] <ogra_`> so no ... there isnt
[10:27] <ogra_`> it needs pretty close system integration, so canonical requires collaboration from the manufacturer for this
[10:27] <ogra_`> i guess ubuntu touch is your best bet
[10:27] <ogra_`> and i'm sure as soon as the first ouyas show up in the wild at developer desks someone will port it
[10:28] <jP_wanN> well, the OUYA team supports hacking the device (not that sure what's about the guarantee)
[10:28] <ogra_`> porting UTouch is pretty trivial
[10:28] <jP_wanN> well, not the downloading part :D
[10:28] <ogra_`> took me a weekend to port it to my galays S2
[10:28] <jP_wanN> cool thing
[10:28] <jP_wanN> I'll ask you again
[10:28] <jP_wanN> about something else
[10:28] <jP_wanN> but first, about the ouya
[10:29] <ogra_`> kulve, xorg drivers suck ... Mir can make use of the existing android GL drivers
[10:29] <jP_wanN> if there were official images, it would be possible to replace the existing system with an android build with ubuntu android, right?
[10:31] <ogra_`> right
[10:31] <jP_wanN> okay
[10:32] <jP_wanN> well than the main thing to get ubuntu android on the current version of OUYA is probably to wait for images
[10:32] <jP_wanN> but now about porting ubuntu touch
[10:32] <ogra_`> the ouya should be pretty close to the nexus7 HW wise ...
[10:33] <ogra_`> you couold use the nexus7 desktop image on it with slight modifications i guess
[10:33] <jP_wanN> ubuntu touch on OUYA is something I'll face somewhen else
[10:33] <jP_wanN> but I've got an Sony Xperia Sola on which I want to install ubuntu touch
[10:34] <jP_wanN> actually I only bought it to try ubuntu touch on it
[10:35] <jP_wanN> it's the only smartphone with good enough HW for ubuntu touch, a microSD slot and less than 4" display width
[10:35] <ogra_`> well, if it isnt on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices yet ... you will have to port it yourself
[10:35] <jP_wanN> yes, I know
[10:35] <ogra_`> (there is also the #ubuntu-touch channel btw)
[10:35] <jP_wanN> but my internet connection is so slow, I'll let a friend download those 15GB sources :D
[10:35] <ogra_`> :)
[10:35] <jP_wanN> okay
[10:36] <ogra_`> yeah, its a bit painful
[10:36] <ogra_`> i left it suckling over a weekend here ... that worked fine
[10:36] <jP_wanN> I read that Ubuntu Touch uses some parts of cyanogenmod
[10:36] <ogra_`> yup
[10:36] <ogra_`> kernel, drivers and the hardware abstraction layer
[10:37] <jP_wanN> could I get into trouble because the Xperia Sola is not supported by cyanogenmod?
[10:37] <ogra_`> on top of that you have a normal ubuntu rootfs
[10:37] <ogra_`> you would have to port it to CM first ... or find an unofficial CM 10.1 port, yes
[10:37] <jP_wanN> sounds a lot of fun ^^°
[10:38] <ogra_`> heh
[10:38] <jP_wanN> but probably I don't have to do that
[10:38] <jP_wanN> there is an unofficial port
[10:38] <jP_wanN> http://freexperiaproject.com/
[10:38] <jP_wanN> but I don't know for which CM version
[10:38] <jP_wanN> oh found it
[10:38] <jP_wanN> only v 9
[10:39] <jP_wanN> well that'll take some time I think
[10:39] <jP_wanN> but thanks :)
[10:39] <ogra_`> good luck :)
[12:43] <marvin24> janimo`: I failed to upload a kernel package to launchpad due to version name problems
[12:43] <marvin24> I put an archive of the source package to http://tinyurl.com/c9hwg3u
[12:43] <marvin24> there's nothing more I can do I guess :-(
[13:40] <ogra_> marvin24, did you try to delete the old upload first ?
[13:41] <ogra_> that should theretically work
[14:00] <marvin24> ogra_: I couldn't
[14:00] <marvin24> it is not shown on the delete page
[14:00] <ogra_> you own the PPA, you should be able to
[14:00] <marvin24> also launchpad forbits pushing the same version twice
[14:00] <marvin24> ogra_: yes, this could work though
[14:01] <marvin24> will try later again
[14:01] <ogra_> ++
[14:01] <ogra_> tell me if it doesnt
[14:01] <ogra_> i think i used that way in the past and it used to work
[14:55] <marvin24> ok, uploading ...
[14:55] <marvin24> I guess that's why there is a "UNRELEASED" tag in the changes files instead of the disto name
[14:57] <ogra_> well, thats to prevent you from accidentially uploading something unfinished
[15:14] <marvin24> ah, so I cannot upload such a package - I thought that it will just not be published
[15:14] <ogra_> it will reject it (or should at least)
[15:17] <marvin24> so how to check if a package actually builds on launchpad without wasting a precious version number?
[15:18] <marvin24> ok, personal ppa
[15:19] <marvin24> arr, need to enable armhf on personal ppa
[15:20] <ogra_> well, one mail
[15:20] <marvin24> to czajkowski ?
[15:20] <ogra_> yeah, i think so
[15:21] <marvin24> ah, last time I did it via questions interface
[15:22] <ogra_> yeah, that should work too
[15:22] <ogra_> but might help to ping here as well
[15:22] <ogra_> *her
[19:30] <rookie2030> hi everybody
[19:32] <rookie2030> its possible to connect in one eth port the router cable with DHCP and the other eth port the cable to PC and have the same IP
[19:35] <rookie2030> i have a dreamplug
[19:35] <rookie2030> with 2 ports ethernet
[19:45] <rookie2030> I have a sheeva plug with 2 ethernet port and i need to connect one port to internet and the other port to my computer its possible to do in linux
[19:46] <rookie2030> uses as physical link but i need to use the sheeva plug


[02:44] <edgy1> nice OS :)
[20:59] <studio-user697> I need help setting up my wifi
[21:02] <studio-user697> My desktop is NOT connected wired. But it says that it is. And it is impossible for me to connect via my Wifi connection


[00:01] <roaksoax> bigjools: around already?
[00:33] <bigjools> roaksoax: OTP
[01:22] <bigjools> roaksoax: still there? off TP now
[01:23] <roaksoax> bigjools: ya
[01:23] <roaksoax> bigjools: so if you saw, the sudoers thing is in place already
[01:23] <bigjools> I saw!
[01:24] <roaksoax> bigjools: the only problem now is being able to access the files under etc/<daemon>
[01:24] <roaksoax> bigjools: the group adding didn't seem to work
[01:24] <roaksoax> so another option would be to manage those files independently and just symlink
[01:24] <bigjools> yeah I guessed it would not yesterday when I looked at it in more detail :(
[01:24] <roaksoax> i don't know whether that would work
[01:25] <bigjools> we could spawn a process using sudo, instead of writing directly
[01:26] <roaksoax> that could also be an option, Im gonna email to the security list
[01:26] <bigjools> or temporarily gain suid?
[01:26] <bigjools> I forgot the system call
[01:26] <bigjools> in fact I hope Python could even do that
[01:26] <roaksoax> heh well we need to look into that
[01:27] <roaksoax> without having an in-depth look, handling it under /var/lib/maas and symlinking to /etc/<daemon> might work
[01:27] <bigjools> roaksoax: do you want to run with it?  you probably overlap better with Jamie
[01:27] <roaksoax> bigjools: yes, I'll email tomorrow morning the security team
[01:27] <roaksoax> for advise
[01:27] <bigjools> you mean writing to /var/lib/maas, ok, but doesn't it still need root to symlink?
[01:28] <roaksoax> bigjools: the symlinking would be done on package creation
[01:28] <roaksoax> bigjools: so maas would modify whatever is in /var/lib/maas/dhcp/* for example
[01:29] <roaksoax> bigjools: s/package creation/package installation/
[01:29] <bigjools> ah ok
[01:29] <bigjools> like we do for dns?
[01:29] <roaksoax> bigjools: for DNS we do directly on /etc/bind/maas
[01:29]  * bigjools wonders if dhcp has an inclusion mechanism
[01:30] <roaksoax> bigjools: so we only need to have a dhcpd.conf right?
[01:30] <bigjools> yep
[01:30] <roaksoax> bigjools: so that could be in /var/lib/maas/dhcp/dhcpd.conf, then we symlink that to /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf
[01:30] <bigjools> this will eventually need to happen on worker packaging as well
[01:31] <roaksoax> yep
[01:31] <bigjools> that would work
[01:31] <roaksoax> on package installation is easy thing to create a symlink
[01:31] <bigjools> when I say eventually, in about 4-6 weeks :)
[01:31] <roaksoax> hehe
[01:31] <bigjools> >deadlines<
[01:31] <roaksoax> sounds like fun
[01:32] <bigjools> fsvo
[01:33] <bigjools> roaksoax: oh BTW, we are running tftp out of the maas tree in precise, right?
[01:33] <bigjools> I am about to test it
[01:35] <bigjools> hmmm
[01:35] <bigjools> maas wants to install python-txtftp still
[01:36] <bigjools> should probably fix that :)
[01:43] <roaksoax> bigjools: in precise it is in the tree
[01:43] <roaksoax> bigjools: python-txtftp is a depends on quantal, but it is installed from the source in precise
[01:44] <roaksoax> anyways, i'm off
[01:44] <roaksoax> have a good day
[01:48] <bigjools> roaksoax: it depends on it in precise AFAICS
[01:54] <bigjools> python-django-maas depends on python-tftp
[01:54] <bigjools> python-django-maas depends on python-txtftp I mean
[02:57] <roaksoax> bigjools: yeah
[02:58] <roaksoax> bigjools: that's about right, because the provisioningserver is being shipped with python-django-maas
[02:58] <bigjools> ah you're back
[02:58] <bigjools> I sent an email 5 mins ago
[02:58] <roaksoax> bigjools: yeah i just read that's why I came back :)
[02:58] <bigjools> :)
[02:58] <roaksoax> bigjools: so i keep a separate branch for the precise precise package
[02:59] <bigjools> roaksoax: sounds like we need two proper packaging branches then :)
[02:59] <bigjools> and two recipes
[02:59] <roaksoax> bigjools: yeah I have them I just haven uploaded it since I wanted to get the cobbler removal in place
[02:59] <roaksoax> bigjools: but the precise version basically removes whatever is not in the archives (such as python-tx-tftp)
[03:01] <roaksoax> bigjools: so if you backport a quantal version to precise, it will fail to work
[03:01] <roaksoax> bigjools: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1171058/
[03:01] <roaksoax> bigjools: i'll upload it to a bracnh tomorrow
[03:01] <roaksoax> bigjools: the problme is (in PPA's) that the tarball differs for each version, and so, PPA's don't alow me to upload
[03:01] <bigjools> ah
[03:01] <bigjools> indeed
[03:02] <bigjools> you need to version them appropriately :)
[03:02] <roaksoax> bigjools: indeed
[03:02] <bigjools> I won't test today then, let me know when you're set
[03:03] <roaksoax> bigjools: please, do test it today
[03:03] <roaksoax> bigjools: I have it in ppa:andreserl/ppa
[03:03] <bigjools> ok
[03:03] <bigjools> I'll let you know how I get on then
[03:03] <roaksoax> bigjools: ok, awesome then!
[03:04] <roaksoax> i'm off now for real :)
[03:04] <roaksoax> have a good day
[03:04] <bigjools> roaksoax: cheers!
[15:02] <roaksoax> bigy
[15:02] <roaksoax> err
[23:27] <bigjools> hey roaksoax


[06:34] <acheronuk> wgrant cjwatson, looks like buildd-manager fell over again
[06:41] <wgrant> acheronuk: fixed, thanks
[06:41] <acheronuk> thank you


[01:30] <jrwren> oh man... the apt autoremove after upgrading freed like a GB
[13:43] <mrgoodcat> rick_h: i am indeed on windows
[13:43] <mrgoodcat> er macos
[13:43] <mrgoodcat> idk why i said windows
[13:45] <mrgoodcat> basically, for uninteresting reasons our test suite cannot run on macos. My solution is to use multipass to set up a headless ubuntu vm, and use visual studio code's excellent ssh remote plugin
[13:47] <rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea that's good stuff
[13:48] <mrgoodcat> my old solution was a virtualbox vm
[13:48] <mrgoodcat> this is superior in every way that matters to me
[13:48] <mrgoodcat> i need to be talked out of buying a ripmo
[13:49] <rick_h> hah I want one of the ne one
[13:49] <rick_h> ones
[13:49] <rick_h> the main stopper is I just spent $$$ on i9 27.5 rims lol
[13:49] <mrgoodcat> I have a stache right now. I'm really struggling with what to do
[13:49] <rick_h> I keep looking at my current bike and all the parts I could repurpose
[13:50] <mrgoodcat> honestly, I probably dont even need a new bike. but i _want_ a new bike
[13:50] <rick_h> always have that in there
[13:50] <rick_h> yea, the big thing is that I really prefer the hardtail for the MI trails
[13:50] <rick_h> ripmo is soo much bike
[13:50] <rick_h> but here in NC it'd be good to have a little bit more
[13:50] <rick_h> or like when I go to blue mouain (if I get to go this year)
[13:50] <rick_h> a coil ripmo would be pretty good
[13:51] <mrgoodcat> my choices are basically, 1) upgrade and keep current bike 2) get a short travel bike and probably sell current HT 3) get a longer travel bike and keep both
[13:51] <mrgoodcat> blue mountain is closed for 2020
[13:51] <rick_h> oh did they decide to just kill it?
[13:51]  * rick_h hoped to get out there later in the year but guess it was wishful thinking
[13:51] <mrgoodcat> that was what i saw. maybe it was temporary, but I seem to remember it being the full year
[13:52] <mrgoodcat> oh no looks like they're open
[13:52] <mrgoodcat> to season pass holders only
[13:53] <rick_h> gotcha
[13:53] <rick_h> anyway, keep the hard tail for MI stuff, get a bigger bike to travel with :)
[13:53] <mrgoodcat> if i go for a short travel (tallboy current front runner), i'll sell my hardtail. no reason for me to own a short travel and a 29+ HT
[13:53] <mrgoodcat> if i go long travel, i want to keep the HT for michigan riding
[13:53] <rick_h> yea
[13:54] <rick_h> so short travel the new ripley is pretty sweet
[13:54] <rick_h> or maybe a transition scout
[13:54] <rick_h> thoes are pretty well thought of
[13:54] <mrgoodcat> i haven't ridden it, but the reviews describe the ripley as "twitchy"
[13:54] <mrgoodcat> maybe its just the short travel feel. seems like all the reviewers are enduro guys
[13:55] <mrgoodcat> also theres no ibis dealer around here. i'm happy doing my own work, but if i need a warranty claim or something driving to grand rapids is a bummer
[15:44] <mrgoodcat> rick_h: just curious. if you feel like your mojo is too much for MI but not enough for NC, where do you feel like it fits just right?
[15:56] <rick_h> mrgoodcat:  bentonville lol
[15:56] <rick_h> I mean it does NC and it does Oregon and such
[15:56] <rick_h> but there's a few times on the black/harder trails I wish for more
[15:57] <rick_h> but on anything blue, easy blacks it's great
[15:57] <rick_h> I guess it's just that as I pushmy riding up I wish for a bit more on the harder stuff
[16:55] <jrwren> yay for 20.04... python 3.8 and no python2.
[17:08] <rick_h> woot woot
[17:08] <rick_h> what's a python 2?
[17:09] <jrwren> exactly
[20:16] <jrwren> this is huge. https://ubuntu.com/blog/fips-certification-ubuntu-18-04-lts
[20:16] <jrwren> congrats.
[20:24] <rick_h> wheeeee
[20:24] <rick_h> now to finish getting the UA client to use enable it easily
[21:58] <cmaloney> <3


[12:15] <waldo323_> good morning
[13:07] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:07] <cmaloney> How's the day so far?
[13:50] <widox> morning
[13:50] <widox> ungodly hot and humid :)
[13:56] <jrwren> boring. the day is boring :)
[13:58] <brousch> sultry, the night was sultry
[14:22] <greg-g> was a bit chilly over night at ~52. but a nice night after all the illegal fireworks stopped
[14:35] <brousch> 52 is perfect at night
[14:41] <rick_h_> yea, that's the rough spot here.    The only things I actually like about MI are that my family is here and the cost of living is cheap and well... Ann Arbor.
[15:43] <jrwren> Ann Arbor lifestyle is an MI anomoly.
[15:44] <greg-g> it really is.  I blame her U of Chicago undergrad years :P
[15:45] <greg-g> U Chicago, I guess is how they type it
[15:46] <notlikethesoup> the pacific nw would be cool but that'd be so far from my family
[15:46] <cmaloney> It's not "The University of Chicago"?
[15:47] <cmaloney> like THE University of Michigan or THE Ohio State University
[15:47] <cmaloney> emphasis on the THE
[15:48] <jrwren> greg-g: wow, she hated all of her time her?
[15:48] <jrwren> *here?
[15:48] <notlikethesoup> i think it's only OSU that does that, cmaloney
[15:49] <jrwren> I've never heard umich do it AT ALL, and I go to a lot of sporting events and my wife is a grad.
[15:50] <greg-g> cmaloney: something something private school vs public something something pretentious something something chicago school of economics
[15:50] <greg-g> jrwren: and yeah, she went to umich for grad school because her parents live in Chelsea
[15:50] <cmaloney> something something emphasis on sporting program instead of academics something something why I can get a trashcan with a big ass M on the side of it
[15:51] <greg-g> :)
[15:51] <notlikethesoup> lol
[15:51] <brousch> Hey, I have a trash can with a big M on the side!
[15:51] <notlikethesoup> i'm an MSU fan so i definitely do not
[15:51] <jrwren> OH!
[15:51] <brousch> Get the banhammer
[15:51] <cmaloney> Oh, then you can have a big S on the trashcan
[15:51] <notlikethesoup> yes
[15:51] <notlikethesoup> realistically it SHOULD be a W
[15:51] <cmaloney> Supercan
[15:51] <notlikethesoup> since i'm a wmu alum
[15:51] <notlikethesoup> as of... 2 months ago
[15:52] <jrwren> greg-g: ZOMG, chicago school of economics HAS BEEN TEH MOST INCORRECT AND DISRUPTIVE THINKING to economic policy in the history of the US.
[15:52] <jrwren> greg-g: but... you said chelsea, so I get it. Them nearby small towners don't seem to get AA
[15:52] <cmaloney> Even moreso than Cooley Law? :)
[15:53] <jrwren> cmaloney: UMICH, unlike most other MI universities, fund their sports program nearly all from donations.
[15:53] <greg-g> notlikethesoup: congrats on the graduation then :)
[15:53] <jrwren> it helps when you have a large endowment earmarked to sports and 150yrs of history
[15:53] <jrwren> notlikethesoup: GO BRONCOS!  My wife's undergrad is from there :)  congrats.
[15:54] <cmaloney> and a rabid alumni association of folks who think sports is really important
[15:54] <cmaloney> notlikethesoup: Congratulations on the recent graduation!
[15:58] <jrwren> notlikethesoup: what was your major?
[16:03] <notlikethesoup> oh thank you thank you
[16:03] <notlikethesoup> i was a computer science major with a minor in mathematics
[16:04] <notlikethesoup> the minor was honestly harder than the major lol
[16:09] <jrwren> i am not surprised.
[16:11] <jrwren> I had this crazy idea of using the lxd zfs pool for docker as well, on personal workstation / home server.
[19:23] <jrwren> ok. I did it: https://www.reddit.com/r/jrwren/comments/8wd9uz/docker_zfs_backend_shared_with_lxd/


[19:03] <olly> morning
[19:14] <ibeardsl1e> morning
[19:15] <ibeardslee> and 'morning' as the real me
[19:31] <ajmitch_> morning
[19:31] <ajmitch_> it's that time of year again, when I can't see my screen due to morning sun
[19:51] <olly> ajmitch_: not a problem in wellington today
[20:37] <chilts> morning
[21:48] <Atamira> morning all
[21:48] <Atamira> beautiful morning up here in auckland
[21:48] <Atamira> atm. not a cloud in the sky
[22:32] <hads> Was really average here this morning, quite nice now though.