[11:11] <andypandy> Hello. I am trying to upgrade my EOL Ubuntu Server according to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades but when I attempt to run the ./impish upgrade script I get errors messages.
[11:11] <andypandy> Unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused
[11:11] <andypandy> (impish:4244): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 13:09:11.291: _gtk_style_provider_private_get_settings: assertion 'GTK_IS_STYLE_PROVIDER_PRIVATE (provider)' failed
[11:45] <tomreyn> --frontend=DistUpgradeViewText   (as suggested in #ubuntu)  seems to have helped
[13:29] <aaal> how to re-install / recover (default) grub?
[13:29] <aaal> is it apt install grub-common or grub2-common?
[13:33] <tomreyn> aaal: depends on how you're booting / which architecture. is this amd64 with uefi booting?
[13:33] <tomreyn> which ubuntu release?
[13:34] <aaal> amd64
[13:34] <aaal> not sure if uefi, it's kvm
[13:34] <tomreyn> echo -n 'This system booted via: '; [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo UEFI || echo BIOS
[13:34] <aaal> release is 1804 or 2004
[13:34] <tomreyn> lsb_release -ds
[13:35] <tomreyn> if you'll run these commands you'll have the exact answers
[13:35] <aaal> bios
[13:35] <aaal> 1804
[13:36] <tomreyn> just a notice: free support for 18.04 will end mid last year
[13:37] <aaal> im not sure but the culpit may be me installing ubuntu-server which replaced grub with grub-ec2 and then maybe some error, yes i will jump to 2204
[13:37] <tomreyn> is this an ec2 instance then?
[13:37] <aaal> it's not aws so no?
[13:38] <tomreyn> okay, i was just wondering because you mentioned grub-ec2
[13:39] <aaal> yes, it was my mistake doing any of it
[13:39] <aaal> i tried to install grub2-common but got some error /dev missing (im in chroot
[13:40] <tomreyn> i think it'll be best to purge all grub* packages and install grub-pc
[13:41] <tomreyn> then grub-install to the boot disk
[13:47] <aaal> grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?)
[13:47] <aaal> but it should be
[13:48] <aaal> anyway grub-pc is what  i was looking for
[13:49] <aaal> nvm about the error
[13:55] <tomreyn> aaal: well that's not a good sign if grub can't find the root device
[13:56] <aaal> mount -o rbind /dev /mnt/dev etc
[13:56] <aaal> there's hope
[13:56] <tomreyn> ? is this a chroot?
[13:57] <aaal> yes
[13:59] <tomreyn> then you probably don't need grub in the first place
[14:00] <aaal> i mean i have to chroot to rescue my install
[14:00] <aaal> no?
[14:00] <tomreyn> oh this system currently won't boot. i wasn't aware of that.
[14:00] <aaal> yes i dungoofed
[14:01] <aaal> grub install to drive NOT partition yes?
[14:02] <tomreyn> yes, grub no longer supports installation to partitions other than a dedicated bios_grub partituon on gpt.
[14:02] <tomreyn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCdRecovery
[14:03] <tomreyn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing
[14:03] <aaal> ok done no errors
[14:04] <tomreyn> i forgot to tell you to also run update-grub.
[14:04] <aaal> ok
[14:04] <aaal> https://bpa.st/4IEQ
[14:05] <aaal> looks like it should boot yes?
[14:06] <aaal> https://bpa.st/VTXQ
[14:06] <tomreyn> it doesn't say that it won't
[14:07] <aaal> https://bpa.st/2CHA
[14:07] <aaal> did update-gr
[14:08] <aaal> i think that was it..?
[14:08] <tomreyn> if grub.cfg actually refers to these kernels and grub is installed on the bios boot device then is should work
[14:12] <aaal> quit chroot but can't umount /dev/ says it's busy
[14:13] <aaal> unmounted sys and proc fine
[14:16] <aaal> nvm


[00:00] <blahdeblah> menn0: I see you are the lucky winner of https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1660087; it may still be the same underlying cause as https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1635311, so that might be useful background, depending on what you find in the profiling data.
[00:00] <mup> Bug #1660087: Controller and all models unresponsive <canonical-is> <juju:Triaged by menno.smits> <juju 2.2:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660087>
[00:00] <mup> Bug #1635311: juju2 eating CPU, units in error <canonical-is> <landscape> <juju:In Progress by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635311>
[00:05] <menn0> blahdeblah: ok, thanks for joining the dots
[00:05] <blahdeblah> menn0: No guarantees ;-)
[00:35] <alexisb> wallyworld, ping
[00:36] <wallyworld> hey
[00:36] <alexisb> heya wallyworld did you want to meet in our 1x1 HO?
[00:36] <wallyworld> alexisb: give me 5?
[00:36] <wallyworld> or 3
[00:44]  * alexisb taps her fingers impatiently on her desk
[00:44] <alexisb> and stares at wallyworld
[00:44] <wallyworld> alexisb: just looking for hangout, it's gone :-)
[00:45] <alexisb> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/alexis-ian
[00:45] <alexisb> you just have to look into the past
[00:52] <mup> Bug #1660522 changed: Un-removeable "life: dead", "agent-state: pending"  agents  <canonical-bootstack> <juju-core:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660522>
[00:55] <axw> menn0: back
[01:09] <babbageclunk> axw (or anyone else) - is there any way to have the ec2test server return errors for operations?
[01:11] <babbageclunk> axw: Or do I need to introduce indirection in the provider and patch things out with mocked ones? (that seems to be what the other tests do)
[01:13]  * redir looks into the future and sees a beer
[01:13]  * redir eods
[01:13] <redir> maybe
[01:13] <redir> but should find a bug to look at tomorrow
[01:14] <axw> babbageclunk: I don't think so, but don't know for sure. what error do you want to return?
[01:16] <babbageclunk> axw: I just want to test a few error paths in my code.
[01:17] <babbageclunk> axw: Actually I'm not sure there's much need - the error handling is fairly trivial in this case.
[01:17] <axw> for full coverage you probably need a layer of indirection. for more specific validation errors (for example), it would make sense to update ec2test
[01:19] <babbageclunk> axw: I'm not looking for any specific validation errors or anything, so I think this is probably fine.
[01:21] <menn0> axw: was having lunch. i'm back now too.
[01:21] <menn0> axw: quick hangout?
[01:23] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: for bug 1602192, you just want me to say that it'll b better communicated thru status msg and will b addressed in 2.2?
[01:23] <mup> Bug #1602192: when starting many LXD containers, they start failing to boot with "Too many open files" <lxd> <juju:Triaged> <lxd (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602192>
[01:24] <wallyworld> let me look, one sec
[01:24] <axw> menn0: sorry missed your msg, yep
[01:24] <axw> menn0: see you in standup HO?
[01:25] <menn0> axw: yep, see you there
[01:26] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: yeah. i think we also discussed that in clouds, there was no guarantee that the images could support those particular kernal parameters so best not to try and guess and better surface the error
[01:26] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: ack
[01:27] <wallyworld> that was the advice from nic and adam anyway
[01:27] <wallyworld> juju often gets stuff wrong when it tries to guess, so we are trying to be more explicit
[01:53] <redir> I often get stuff wrong when I try to guess
[01:54] <babbageclunk> axw: can you take a look at this if you get a chance? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6900
[01:54] <axw> babbageclunk: okey dokey
[01:57] <babbageclunk> axw: thanks!
[01:59] <axw> babbageclunk: done
[02:01] <babbageclunk> axw yay! Yeah, much easier than the Azure one (although a lot of that was me getting to understand the SDK),
[02:34] <veebers> babbageclunk: query is the model migration fix in for aws re: the bug where destroying the origin controller borks things?
[02:41] <babbageclunk> veebers: no - the AWS specific bit is done, but I still need to do the part that calls that from the migration.
[02:41] <veebers> babbageclunk: ack thanks, I'll leave that out from my test script for today then :-)
[02:42] <babbageclunk> veebers: sorry - I'll let you know when it's all done.
[02:42] <veebers> babbageclunk: nw, was just checking before I try it out in my manual testing. Also interested in GCE
[02:43] <babbageclunk> veebers - gce's in the same state.
[02:44] <babbageclunk> Hmm, there's no reason I can't do the migration bit now, if it would help?
[02:44] <veebers> ack. it's not blocking me really at the moment, I'm just doing some manual testing for migrations in the public clouds
[03:34] <menn0> axw: how far away are you with that lxd credentials fix?
[03:36] <axw> menn0: not too far, just updating tests
[03:36] <menn0> axw: cool. I ask b/c I have a fix for the charm URL migration issue but it would be easier to QA if your fix was in place.
[03:36] <menn0> axw: I can work around it regardless
[03:42] <axw> menn0: sorry was otp
[03:42] <axw> menn0: I can push my branch if you want to use it incomplete
[03:42] <menn0> axw: nah it's all good
[03:59] <menn0> axw, babbageclunk or wallyworld: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6901
[04:00] <wallyworld> looking
[04:07] <wallyworld> menn0: i think i missing something - the sequence assigns rev numbers 1,2,3,4,5 etc for each base charm url right?
[04:07] <menn0> wallyworld: yes
[04:08] <wallyworld> so if the source model has had charm rev 4 deleted, and migrates rev-1 rev-2 rev-3 rev-5 rev-6, won't that stuff up?
[04:09] <menn0> wallyworld: no b/c the revision is set to max(charm URL rev, next seq value)
[04:09] <menn0> wallyworld: for each charm upload
[04:09] <wallyworld> ah, right ok
[04:09] <menn0> wallyworld: the rev in the uploaded charm is used if possible, unless the sequence is beyond that value already
[04:10] <wallyworld> ok, thanks. lgtm
[04:10] <menn0> wallyworld: thanks for looking
[04:10] <wallyworld> np. was a pretty easy fix in the end
[04:16] <menn0> wallyworld: a bit fiddly but not too hard
[04:17] <menn0> thanks to babbageclunk too
[04:17] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: it looks like there's no method in goose corresponding to the update volume metadata API call: https://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/block-storage/v3/#update-a-volume-s-metadata
[04:17] <wallyworld> wouldn't surprise me
[04:17] <wallyworld> i don't know for sure off hand though
[04:17] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: Ok, cool - just checking I wasn't missing something. I'll add it then.
[04:17] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: if you do change goose, there's a drive by that needs doing
[04:18] <wallyworld> i'll find it
[04:18] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: It's not "upgrade it to the new version of the openstack API" is it?
[04:18] <wallyworld> it's a message that is logged as INFO that should be debug
[04:19] <wallyworld> that could be the message, can't recall exactly
[04:19] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: Oh yeah, that I can handle.
[04:19] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: No I meant a big thing being jokingly described as a driveby. But changing a log level I'll do.
[04:20] <wallyworld> just as well :-)
[04:20] <wallyworld> actually, it's worse than info, it's warning
[04:20] <wallyworld> line 220 of client/apiversion.go
[04:28]  * menn0 is done for now. back again later.
[04:38] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok, I'll change that too.
[04:38] <wallyworld> ta
[04:41] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: Do you mean 229? https://github.com/go-goose/goose/blob/v1/client/apiversion.go#L229
[04:41] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: yis (that's kiwi for yes)
[04:42] <babbageclunk> thenks
[04:53] <Lalit>  Hello Experts 	I working on to develop charms . I have two questions  	1) Is there any way to fire command from one juju unit to another ? 	2) Is there a way to copy file from one unit to another ?
[05:07] <axw> Lalit: juju itself does not provide any way to do those things. charms can coordinate with each other to do it using relations, though
[05:07] <axw> wallyworld: can you please review https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6903
[05:07] <wallyworld> sure
[05:11] <Lalit> Hello Andrew thank for replay . if possible could you please let me know any charm doing this So that i can refer that charm
[05:50] <axw> Lalit: I'm sorry, I don't know of any. I suggest trying in #juju or on the mailing list
[06:28] <axw> wallyworld: you're working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1643430?
[06:28] <mup> Bug #1643430: Unassigned units in an error state cannot be removed <juju:Triaged> <juju 2.1:In Progress by wallyworld> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1643430>
[06:49] <wallyworld> axw: yeah, in between things, just fixing a state changing too quickly error. i also need to think about the fact that we can't assert A && B across collections
[09:23] <jam> for those around that can review: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6905
[09:23] <jam> frobware: perrito666: ^^
[09:59] <perrito666> Jam it's 7am here once I finish waking up I'll take a look :)
[11:12] <prankgm> Hi Folks,
[11:12] <prankgm> Have a question. Is there a way to call config-changed hook in charm after relation hooks?
[12:12] <pranav_> Hey folks. Have a query
[12:12] <pranav_> need to fire config-changed hook after all relations are made. Any way to do this?
[15:49] <pranav_> Hey. Can anyone here help me with a query on hooks?
[16:00] <perrito666> pranav_: sorry almost no one is here you had a query regarding config hook right?
[16:00] <perrito666> pranav_: most of these will most likely get a more useful answer in #juju
[16:01] <pranav_> Oh ok thanks. Will try there
[17:03] <redir> morning juju dev
[19:14] <redir> new kernel brb
[19:14] <redir> or bbiab
[20:33] <babbageclunk> perrito666, redir: anyone familiar with the openstack API?
[20:34] <perrito666> Babbageclunk slightly
[20:35] <babbageclunk> perrito666: I'm adding a SetMetadata method to cinder volumes in goose.
[20:36] <babbageclunk> perrito666: My reading of the docs says I want PUT - https://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/block-storage/v3/?expanded=create-metadata-for-volume-detail,update-a-volume-s-metadata-detail#update-a-volume-s-metadata
[20:36] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Only confused because the corresponding method for servers is POST: https://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/compute/?expanded=create-or-update-metadata-item-detail,update-metadata-items-detail,create-or-replace-metadata-items-detail#update-metadata-items
[20:37] <babbageclunk> perrito666: There's also a POST version of the volumes request, but I think PUT is what I want since it explicitly allows partial updates to the metadata (so I don't need to get all of the tags to update one).
[20:38] <perrito666> Definitely not that into it :)
[20:38] <babbageclunk> perrito666: :)
[20:39] <babbageclunk> perrito666: I'll do PUT for now anyway.
[20:41] <redir> babbageclunk: vry minimally
[20:42] <redir> babbageclunk: PUT sounds correct to me
[20:42] <babbageclunk> redir: sweet, thanks
[21:38] <babbageclunk> perrito666: do you know how I can run the cinder live tests for goose?
[21:38] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Can I use creds from cloud-city?
[21:49] <babbageclunk> perrito666: hang on - following along in the nova tests it looks like maybe I don't need to.
[21:51]  * redir lunches
[21:54] <perrito666> babbageclunk: yes you can
[21:56] <babbageclunk> perrito666: I couldn't work out where to get all of the cred bits: I can find URL, user, secret (I assume this can be password), region and tenant. What should domain be?
[21:58] <perrito666> babbageclunk: let me peek at cloud city
[21:58] <perrito666> babbageclunk: you need the credentials for something other than bootstraping?
[21:59] <perrito666> otherwise just JUJU_DATA=/path/to/cloud-city
[22:00] <babbageclunk> perrito666: no, trying to run the goose live tests - that seems to need 6 env vars set.
[22:01] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Ah, looking at the credentials struct, domain is tagged as optional.
[22:02] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Ok, I'll try this - thanks!
[22:02] <perrito666> babbageclunk: source ec2rc
[22:02] <perrito666> :p
[22:02] <perrito666> ah sorry openstack
[22:03] <perrito666> babbageclunk: I used to have hp cloud for tests in openstack
[22:03] <perrito666> now I have no idea what we use, last time someone gave me one
[22:04] <babbageclunk> perrito666: ok, if this doesn't work I'll ping some of the qa folk, thanks
[22:30] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ping?
[22:30] <wallyworld> otp
[22:34] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i can ping you after release standup
[22:34] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok, just trying to work out how to run goose live tests - if you don't know then no worries.
[22:35] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: unit tests?
[22:35] <wallyworld> ah live tests
[22:35] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yup
[22:35] <wallyworld> i can help a bit, soon
[22:35] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok, awse - thanks
[23:05] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i have to duckout real quick, but basically if you have your .novarc and source it, the env vars should be set up so you can go test --live
[23:05] <wallyworld> from memory
[23:05] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: but realistically, nowadays, a bootstrap / live functional test is probably best
[23:06] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: what's a .novarc? (I know nothing about openstack)
[23:07] <wallyworld> ah, oh. novarc contains your credentials
[23:07] <wallyworld> and tenant etc
[23:08] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok, I'll do some testing once I've done the migration master part
[23:08] <wallyworld> you have not been givwn those for canonistack?
[23:08] <wallyworld> ok
[23:08] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: I've got cloud-city, so I can use those I think
[23:09] <wallyworld> yes you can
[23:09] <wallyworld> there should be a novarc file there
[23:09] <wallyworld> save it as ~/.novarc
[23:10] <wallyworld> then you juju autoload-credentials
[23:11] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i have to pop out for a bit, back soon
[23:56] <alexisb> anastasiamac, ping
[23:56] <anastasiamac> hi alexisb \o/
[23:57] <alexisb> heya anastasiamac, sorry I missed standups today
[23:57] <anastasiamac> u haven't yet. it's now
[23:57] <alexisb> was curious where we are with the beta5 release
[23:57] <alexisb> ah ok
[23:57] <alexisb> I will join
[23:57] <anastasiamac> it's ready to go. last PR just landed


[00:07] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, almost done with the rebuild, getting ready to reboot into new kernel
[00:20] <ali1234> brb
[00:33] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, it's taking a lot longer than I thought
[00:33] <ali1234> building the kernel and all modules for x86 takes a long long time
[00:33] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I did not actually change anything in the configs
[00:34] <pr0ph3t> I am doing it for amd64
[00:34] <ali1234> that's probably even worse
[00:35] <pr0ph3t> I should have selected only the stuff that I needed right?
[00:35] <pr0ph3t> what is worse?
[00:35] <ali1234> no
[00:36] <ali1234> building for 64 bit takes longer
[00:37] <pr0ph3t> anyway, is this just a test? I will have to rebuild it after I apply the patch correct?
[00:37] <ali1234> yes
[00:37] <pr0ph3t> patch, correct?*
[00:38] <pr0ph3t> I remember doing the recompiling a long time ago with slack and other distros
[00:38] <ali1234> you're also building a deb now
[00:38] <pr0ph3t> there was always something that wasn't quite the same after
[00:39] <ali1234> that's why you don't change the config
[00:39] <pr0ph3t> but you had to at the time
[00:40] <pr0ph3t> it was fun, adding all the experimental modules etc.
[00:40] <ali1234> why o why does the bttv driver suck so bad?
[00:43] <pr0ph3t> this is the problem I am trying to deal with by the way: http://dev.iksaif.net/issues/108
[00:45] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, how old is the driver?
[00:45] <ali1234> not very old?
[00:46] <pr0ph3t> hmmm
[00:47] <ali1234> if you look here: http://git.iksaif.net/?p=acpi4asus.git;a=shortlog;h=7d220c2c2cd249763698db7483fb0e1e7a420f43
[00:47] <ali1234> you can see where linus merged the driver into mainline
[00:47] <ali1234> then there are 4 commits more recent than that
[00:48] <the1knight> hello
[00:50] <the1knight> hello
[00:51] <the1knight> i need a little help with audacity, can anyone help?
[00:52] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, it doesn't say anywhere that the patch for WWAN has been merged
[00:53] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, it just says that other things have been fixed, but that is still untested
[00:54] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, last comment is on 2010-10-10, I read about a guy that tried the patch and said it worked so
[00:55] <the1knight> can anyone read my text please?
[00:56] <pr0ph3t> the1knight, say what it is you need help with specifically and someone might be able to help
[00:57] <the1knight> oh ok
[00:57] <the1knight> In audacity I have no navigation menu, e.g file, view etc
[00:58] <the1knight> uninstalled and re-installed but still the same
[00:59] <the1knight> problem is on two computers both running 10.10
[00:59] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: i'm looking at the file in ubuntu maverick kernel and it has that patch, at least parts of it
[01:01] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, the problem is that this machine has wlan, bluetooth and wwan controlled by a series of RFSWITCHES
[01:01] <pr0ph3t> the one for 3G just doesn't turn it on
[01:01] <pr0ph3t> so it is there but cannot be used
[01:01] <ali1234> it doesn't matter; that patch is already present on the maverick kernel
[01:01] <pr0ph3t> they fixed and implemented the switches for wlan and bluetooth though
[01:02] <ali1234> you need to report a new bug i guess
[01:02] <ali1234> hmm waaaaaait
[01:02] <pr0ph3t> they fixed part of it
[01:02] <ali1234> i am on wrong branch
[01:02] <ali1234> yes, maverick kernel does not have this
[01:03] <pr0ph3t> which kernel you were looking at?
[01:03] <ali1234> asus-laptop branch
[01:04] <ali1234> the thing is, that exact patch from the bug report is no longer in the tree
[01:04] <ali1234> it's been cleaned and commited properly
[01:04] <ali1234> i just need to track it down
[01:04] <pr0ph3t> so there is a asus-laptop branch
[01:04] <ali1234> it;s on acpi4asus branch as well
[01:04] <pr0ph3t> could I use that kernel then?
[01:05] <ali1234> ah here we are: ba1ff5be52163a97ac4ce8bc51beae2c96861a43
[01:05] <ali1234> this is the equivalent version of that patch
[01:05] <ali1234> so you need to add that patch into maverick kernel...
[01:06] <ali1234> let's see if it applies clean...
[01:06] <the1knight> In audacity I have no navigation menu, e.g file, view etc. uninstalled and re-installed but still the same.  problem is on two computers both running 10.10
[01:07] <ali1234> i wonder if this patch is in mainline...
[01:07] <ali1234> it's quite old so it might be
[01:07] <pr0ph3t> the1knight, have you tried pressing alt+f?
[01:08] <ali1234> it is in linus' tree...
[01:08] <the1knight> no but i will, hold on
[01:09] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: ok this patch is in linux 2.6.37 which was released today :)
[01:09] <pr0ph3t> it maybe just superfluous for the generic kernel, I have an asus-laptop
[01:09] <ali1234> specifically it looks like it went in to rc6
[01:09] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, oh my, I tried the 2.6.37 a couple of days ago
[01:10] <the1knight> pressed alt+f. it doesnt give me the menu bar but it does bring up file, for save as etc, if you see what i mean
[01:10] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: which version?
[01:10] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, not sure
[01:10] <ali1234> by a "couple of days" do you actually mean 2 and a half weeks?
[01:11] <ali1234> rc6 was packaged for ubuntu on 16th december
[01:11] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I installed the alpha of natty
[01:11] <ali1234> !info linux natty
[01:12] <ali1234> hmm... did you install all updates?
[01:12] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I didn't try to connect with 3g
[01:12] <ali1234> perhaps this patch simply does not fix your problem...
[01:13] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I could just boot into 2.6.37 then
[01:13] <ali1234> it's definitely worth a try, but ensure that the natty kernel is newer than rc6
[01:13] <the1knight> using alt+f allows me to navigate across using arrow keys but the actual menu bar remains hidden
[01:13] <ali1234> hopefully they will package up the final release asap
[01:14] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, thanks very much for your help
[01:14] <ali1234> i'm not really sure it will solve your problem entirely... do you have the exact same model as the bug reporter?
[01:14] <the1knight> sorry im new to this, ill try again
[01:15] <the1knight> pr0ph3t - using alt+f allows me to navigate across using arrow keys but the actual menu bar remains hidden
[01:15] <pr0ph3t> the1knight, try holding the alt key and click on the audacity window moving it downwards, the menu is not visible because it is out of the screen
[01:15] <pr0ph3t> below the panel
[01:15] <the1knight> ok
[01:16] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, yes it is the only model with built-in 3g
[01:16] <ali1234> ok, maybe you will be all set then
[01:16] <ali1234> there should be a unofficial backport of 2.6.37 to maverick too
[01:16] <ali1234> if you don't want to risk using the alpha/beta test versions
[01:16] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, download and boot the new kernel in maverick?
[01:17] <ali1234> here there are unofficial mainline kernel packages: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[01:17] <ali1234> there's no 2.6.37 final release for maverick yet, but hopefully it will show up
[01:17] <ali1234> failing that you can just make your own
[01:18] <ali1234> using a mainline kernel is less likely to go horribly wrong than using the beta versions of ubuntu natty
[01:18] <ali1234> then you can upgrade proper when natty is released
[01:19] <pr0ph3t> I wish I could help more with natty
[01:19] <ali1234> hmm
[01:19] <pr0ph3t> I tried it but I gave up pretty quickly
[01:19] <the1knight> pr0ph3t - tried clicking on audacity window and moving it downwards but nothing happens. I think I might be able to get by though with what I have, unless there are other suggestions
[01:19] <ali1234> you might actually be able to install this deb on maverick: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.37-natty/
[01:20] <ali1234> i know it says natty... but it's only a kernel... there isn't much that can go wrong
[01:20] <ali1234> and you can always go back to previous kernel from boot menu
[01:20] <pr0ph3t> the1knight, press alt+click and move
[01:20] <the1knight> ok
[01:20] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I'll keep the kernel I have now on grub
[01:20] <ali1234> of course
[01:21] <ali1234> always keep a known good kernel
[01:21] <the1knight> pr0ph3t - no that just moves audacity around the screen
[01:21] <pr0ph3t> plus I'll add that one and give it a try
[01:21] <ali1234> actually i know why it says natty - it means it was built with natty toolchain (gcc)
[01:21] <ali1234> that shouldn't hurt anything
[01:23] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I'm gonna have to wait to the end of the compilation though :P
[01:23] <ali1234> ok... cherry picking the patch doesn't look to hard either
[01:23] <ali1234> you just have to resolve a few conflicts
[01:25] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, which conflicts?
[01:25] <ali1234> the patch doesn't apply cleanly
[01:25] <ali1234> so you have to fix it up a bit
[01:26] <the1knight> pr0ph3t - ty for trying, i think i can manage with what i have
[01:29] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, well the compilation should be about to finish
[01:30] <ali1234> if you want to put the patch into the official maverick kernel this is what you would do: http://pastebin.com/qE4tq1bf
[01:30] <ali1234> but i would try mainline first
[01:30] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, when you talk about different branches, are you referring to actual kernels geared to specific platforms?
[01:31] <ali1234> no
[01:31] <ali1234> a branch is a fork in the source history
[01:31] <ali1234> it's a place to test out patches and new code
[01:31] <ali1234> then linus merges all the branches into mainline
[01:32] <ali1234> a branch is a specific git term
[01:32] <ali1234> https://github.com/bard/sameplace/wiki/getting-started-with-git
[01:34] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, I'm gonna try mainline first
[01:34] <pr0ph3t> and then I'll patch the maverick kernel as well
[01:38] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, booting 2.6.37 rc8, brb
[01:41] <pr0ph3t> or not, it's still compiling
[01:44] <ali1234> you're not compiling on a laptop are you? that will take ages...
[01:45] <ali1234> btw why -rc8?
[01:45] <ali1234> i can confirm it has the patch
[01:45] <ali1234> but there is a final package
[01:45] <ali1234> the one with out -rc (which means release candidate)
[01:46] <pr0ph3t> on a laptop yes, it's just finished
[03:07] <pr0ph3t> hi all, mobile broadband still not registered -_-
[03:07] <pr0ph3t> I don't know what else to do, my 3g won't work
[07:29] <nigelb> daubers: poke?
[07:30] <nigelb> Morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> whoa, you're up early :)
[07:31] <nigelb> 7:30 is early? ;)
[07:31] <nigelb> Besides its 1 pm in my TZ.
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> it's 8:30 here, but still.. it FEELS early :)
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> (.nl)
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning nigelb Happy New Year to you.
[07:32] <nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy New Year to you too :)
[07:33] <nigelb> I'm looking for people who want to perhaps take a User Days session
[07:33] <nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/CourseSuggestions
[07:41] <Apacheuk> morning everyone
[07:56] <bigcalm> Morning peeps (this is way too early)
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
[08:02] <bigcalm> Hi MartijnVd
[08:03] <bigcalm> Do people normally get up at this time?
[08:03] <bigcalm> It feels horrible
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I get up about 06:15 usually.
[08:04] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: you crazy fool!
[08:04] <bigcalm> I work from home and my office is next to the bedroom. I really don't need such an early start
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - If I didn't the kids wouldn't be ready for school and my wife would be still asleep due to lack of Tea.
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> My office is next to the kitchen ;-)
[08:05] <bigcalm> Ah, one of the joys of not having children ;)
[08:06] <bigcalm> I always defrost GF's car for her so she had one less thing to stress about in the morning
[08:07] <bigcalm> But today she wanted to go in extra early
[08:07] <bigcalm> Treated myself to breakfast from McDonalld's. Regretting it
[08:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Eewww "treat" and McDonalds don't really go together do they?
[08:08] <bigcalm> Not really, no
[08:09] <dwatkins> Kids think they do, if they're led to believe so.
[08:10] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: all set?
[08:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am.
[08:10] <AlanBell> ok, I will pop round shortly
[08:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> ok
[08:10] <AlanBell> know where we are going?
[08:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> mitcham
[08:12] <AlanBell> near St Georges, I know the way there
[08:41] <DJones> Morning all
[08:42] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:45] <bigcalm> Morning kids :)
[08:50] <FND> good morning
[08:50] <FND> any tips on upgrading to 2.6.36 (not 37) kernel on Maverick (short of compiling it)? I've tried the kernel PPA, but that didn't seem to have anything useful
[08:50] <screen-x> morning bigcalm, you've adopted the parent role?
[08:51] <bigcalm> screen-x: I like to make people think that they aren't as old as they really are ;)
[08:51] <screen-x> bigcalm: awww :)
[08:51] <bigcalm> Or 'kids' could be more like 'kids in the hall'
[08:53] <DJones> And there was me thinking it was a reference to AlanBell's naughty kids from yesterday
[08:54] <bigcalm> DJones: do you feel like a naughty child?
[08:54] <DJones> bigcalm: Definately :)
[08:55] <MartijnVdS> DJones: Do you need a nanny? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQZEvBrrv7k
[08:55] <DJones> I always feel like I'm naughty and still act like a child (So my wife keeps saying)
[08:55] <bigcalm> Haha
[08:55] <bigcalm> I still don't feel like an adult
[08:56] <screen-x> FND: prob have to use a package from the kernel ppa for natty
[08:57] <FND> screen-x: how do I get to that?
[08:57] <screen-x> FND: see versions on this page http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/info/kernel-version-map.html
[08:58]  * FND clicks
[08:59] <FND> I'm not sure I can make sufficient sense of this
[08:59] <FND> I've been to http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v<IP_ADDRESS>-natty/ before - but didn't dare to use the .deb there (also, no PAE AFAICT)
[09:00] <FND> so I guess I should compile it myself after all
[09:03] <screen-x> FND: building your own is fine, but build it as a package rather than a standard kernel image so you can install/remove as normal.
[09:04] <FND> is there an authoritative guide? I found some, but they were more or less random blogs
[09:07] <screen-x> FND: Sadly documentation seems to be messy, the community kernel compilation wiki page isn't great.
[09:08] <screen-x> FND: this page looks helpful: http://blog.avirtualhome.com/2010/11/06/how-to-compile-a-ubuntu-10-10-maverick-kernel/
[09:08] <FND> thanks screen-x!
[09:08] <daubers> nigelb: Hello
[09:08] <screen-x> and to be fair to the wiki, that page is linked from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[09:09] <screen-x> morning daubers
[09:09] <daubers> Morning :)
[09:14] <nigelb> daubers: heya
[09:15] <nigelb> daubers: would you like you do a user days session?
[09:15] <nigelb> daubers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/CourseSuggestions
[09:17] <daubers> nigelb: When is it?
[09:17] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:18] <nigelb> daubers: Jan 29th weekend
[09:20] <daubers> nigelb: I'll have to check my calender
[09:20] <daubers> nigelb: And she's off at Uni at the moment :)
[09:21] <bigcalm> Good morning czajkowski *hugs* :)
[09:22] <nigelb> daubers: haha, ok
[09:23] <nigelb> daubers: get back to me if you decided to have a go at it :)
[09:23] <czajkowski> bigcalm: ello
[09:23] <daubers> nigelb: Remind me this evening and I'll check
[09:23] <nigelb> daubers: great, will do :)
[09:23] <bigcalm> Wanted: sleep
[09:24] <nigelb> bigcalm: About 200$ per minute.  Rates are high.
[09:24] <nigelb> :-P
[09:24] <bigcalm> Wah
[09:29] <czajkowski> My talk for FOSDEM got accepted :D
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> what's it about?
[09:30] <czajkowski> Is the UK Government backing Free Software?
[09:30] <dwatkins> nice one, czajkowski :D
[09:31] <czajkowski> dwatkins: indeed, now I just need to write it...
[09:31] <dwatkins> czajkowski: pah, just make it up as you go along ;)
[09:31] <DJones> czajkowski: And persuade the Government to go with the plan :)
[09:31] <dwatkins> who needs well-weitten notes and preparation....?
[09:31] <dwatkins> *written
[09:31] <dwatkins> see, not me
[09:45] <popey> good morning
[09:45] <daubers> morning popey
[09:46] <dwatkins> hiya
[09:48] <bigcalm> Hi popey and other awake people
[09:48] <screen-x> ZZZzzzzzzzz.....
[09:48] <bigcalm> I want to sleep!
[09:48] <bigcalm> Curse my kindness
[09:48]  * dwatkins hands bigcalm a keyboard pillow
[09:48] <nigelb> Morning popey
[09:49] <bigcalm> dwatkins: one that lets me code with my nose?
[09:49] <popey> Schnozbuntu
[09:49] <JamesTait> Gooooooooooood morning people!
[09:50] <dwatkins> bigcalm: no, you only have the neural interface with Ubuntu 32767.04, I'm afraid. Please be carefult o turn it off when actually sleeping in case you end up coding Alice in Wonderland in COBOL whilst you sleep...
[09:51] <bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm reading AiW on my Kindle at the moment. I fear this may happen soon
[09:51] <popey> AiW?
[09:51] <popey> oh
[09:51] <popey> duh
[09:51] <bigcalm> :)
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: watch out for signed integer overflow :)
[09:52] <dwatkins> bigcalm: excellent choice both in reader and book
[09:52] <dwatkins> popey: it took me a minute, yeah
[09:52] <bigcalm> popey: I gave my parents my Kindle to play with. Neither are interested in getting one. Really surprised me
[09:53] <dwatkins> bigcalm: the Kindle appears to have been the most popular present I got my other half, she can't put it down
[09:53] <dwatkins> the free 3G is an awesome idea, especially with internet browsing working (all be it badly at times)
[09:53] <bigcalm> dwatkins: my GF was over the moon with the earings and necklace I got her. Quite pleased with myself
[09:54] <davmor2> morning all
[09:54] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[09:54] <dwatkins> bigcalm: not everyone wears jewellery, of course ;)
[09:54] <dwatkins> not every woman, that is
[09:54] <dwatkins> having said that, I already got her a necklace recently
[09:54] <screen-x> bigcalm: score!
[09:55] <screen-x> I am very bad at choosing non-functional decorative things.
[09:55] <bigcalm> Same here
[09:55] <bigcalm> I think it's an engineer's trait
[09:55] <dwatkins> bigcalm: I also got her a rubik's cube phone charm, which was half-way between retro chic and bling ;)
[09:55] <bigcalm> Haha
[09:55] <bigcalm> Cute
[09:55] <dwatkins> I'm terrible at choosing jewwllery, hence not having gotten her much of it
[09:56] <dwatkins> I did get her a bass clef necklace because she plays the trombone, and she had a treble cleff one because she couldn't find the bass one at the time, hooray for google
[09:56] <bigcalm> GF was with me when I saw the set. Asked her if she liked it. "Yes but I wouldn't want to pay that for it". So I nipped back the next day and bought it. That was a couple of months before Xmas
[09:57] <dwatkins> sounds like a familiar scenario
[09:58] <dwatkins> We visited a shop in Edinburgh which had some really nice artwork on notebooks and water bottles, but I never got around to going back there to get it, turns out they are online, though: gorjussart (although sadly the artist has been ill lately)
[09:59] <bigcalm> How sweet it looks
[10:09] <dwatkins> yeah bigcalm - we're popping to the same shop again on Sunday to get a couple things, we might even visit their shop which I think is in Glasgow
[10:14] <kazade> good morning all
[10:14] <screen-x> morning kazade
[10:14] <kernix360> mornin
[10:45] <bigcalm> mgdm: butt load of files updated in svn
[10:46] <BigRedS> Hm. Diff appears to be showing differences that aren't different.
[10:47] <bigcalm> Could be a new line issue
[10:48] <dwatkins> or a file format problem, e.g. DOS vs linux end of line
[10:48] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[10:48] <dwatkins> oh, you said that, sorry
[10:48] <bigcalm> alias svndw='svn diff --diff-cmd diff -x -uw'
[10:48] <BigRedS> nah, it's config files between last night's backup and the one's apache's complaining about
[10:51] <BigRedS> actually, just -qw does what I'm after, really
[10:51] <bigcalm> :)
[10:52] <BigRedS> I've just remembered I went through and indented a bunch of the files trying to make them readable, and so that's what diff was picking up
[10:53] <bigcalm> Computers are never wrong!
[10:53] <bigcalm> User error. Replace user and press any key to continue
[10:53] <screen-x> bigcalm: reminds me, I need to watch tron :)
[10:53] <BigRedS> bigcalm: yup! :)
[10:54] <daubers> End of Line
[10:54] <screen-x> daubers: all change?
[10:55] <bigcalm> GF keeps falling asleep whilst watching Tron. Not sure if it's worth it to go and see Tron: Legacy ot not
[10:55] <bigcalm> s/ot/or
[10:55] <bigcalm> If we do, it'll be in 2d
[10:56] <daubers> screen-x: That was what the MCP always said
[10:56] <daubers> bigcalm: Definatley!
[10:56] <screen-x> mcp?
[10:57] <bigcalm> Master Control Programme
[10:57] <screen-x> knackered powerbook that I was bidding for is now up to £40, not paying that for it :(
[10:57] <popey> http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/
[10:57]  * popey pokes AlanBell
[10:57] <bigcalm> Erm, Program
[10:57] <screen-x> ahh.. you can see I haven't watched tron yet ;-)
[10:57] <bigcalm> screen-x: the original one
[10:57] <bigcalm> Not at all?
[10:58] <daubers> screen-x: The original one is class!
[10:58] <bigcalm> How shameful
[10:58] <screen-x>  /o\
[10:59] <czajkowski> a bomb seems to have gone off in my inbox from one person, and a mailing lists 18 maisl since 6 pm yesterday :s
[10:59] <popey> yay
[10:59] <popey> thats good is it?
[10:59] <czajkowski> no
[10:59] <czajkowski> not at all
[10:59] <popey> oh :(
[10:59] <czajkowski> I now have more conference calls to take part in next week
[11:00] <screen-x> czajkowski: at least they aren't video calls?
[11:00] <czajkowski> true
[11:00] <bigcalm> I thought you liked calls
[11:00] <czajkowski> bigcalm: I do, but I'm on a lot of them lately
[11:00] <czajkowski> which is good...
[11:00] <czajkowski> but my timetable is getting a tad full
[11:01] <bigcalm> 11am - time for TEA!
[11:01] <screen-x> Heh, I'm not great at conference calls, I tend let everybody else do the talking..
[11:01] <popey> we always use fake names on conf calls here
[11:01] <popey> yesterday I was pol pot
[11:01] <BigRedS> haha!
[11:01] <bigcalm> Haha
[11:01] <popey> or we give eachothers names
[11:01] <popey> which is good fun when they do a roll call
[11:02] <screen-x> popey: who do you work for (apart from yourself...) there always seems to comedy going on..
[11:02] <popey> "Alan, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean"
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: "Benedictus"
[11:02] <czajkowski> beats the :Alan Alan Alan Alan Dean roll I suspect
[11:02] <daubers> "Hugh, Pugh, Barney, McGrue, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub"
[11:02] <popey> :)
[11:02] <screen-x> \o/ I'm first
[11:03] <bigcalm> 3rd from last, but not quite
[11:03] <screen-x> Cuthbart?
[11:03] <bigcalm> screen-x: whois me
[11:04] <screen-x> ahh +son
[11:04] <bigcalm> That's something I've noticed about Freenode; most people tend to put their real name in that field
[11:05] <daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P5wcCuNZbY
[11:05] <daubers> Is what I was referring to
[11:05] <bigcalm> daubers: we know ;)
[11:06] <bigcalm> I'm surprised they put out any fires, the speed they were going at
[11:07] <DJones> daubers: That takes me back to my childhood
[11:15] <brobostigon> morning all.
[11:16] <bigcalm> Evening
[11:16] <brobostigon> hi bigcalm
[11:16] <DJones> Hi brobostigon
[11:17] <brobostigon> morning DJones
[11:17]  * daubers makes some coffee
[11:17] <brobostigon> yummy
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> good idea
[11:21] <andylockran> howdy
[11:21] <andylockran> when did I logout of here?
[11:21] <bigcalm> Morning andylockran
[11:21] <andylockran> morning
[11:22] <popey> howdy howdy howdy
[11:22] <andylockran> :)
[11:22] <andylockran> wondering if anyone knows where to find the latest regarding LDAP writing from Thunderbird?
[11:22] <screen-x> #ubuntu-uk.05.log:05-01-2011 21:51:06 -!-<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[11:23] <andylockran> screen-x: ta
[11:26] <DJones> andylockran: Looks like 21:51 Remote host closed the connection
[11:26] <andylockran> ta DJones
[11:26]  * popey hugs everyone
[11:26] <andylockran> right - LDAP addressbook writing in thunderbird
[11:26] <popey> right, brainstorm...
[11:26] <popey> suggestions for venues for oggcamp 2011?
[11:26] <bigcalm> popey: tea to,e
[11:26] <popey> not towns, specific locations
[11:26] <andylockran> looks like the UI needs to support async events - so that's the blocker.
[11:26] <bigcalm> time
[11:27] <bigcalm> Anywhere that does good tea
[11:27]  * popey adds that to his list
[11:27] <screen-x> Can someone try loading springpadit.com in chrome-ish browser? Completely fails for me, despite working in ff.
[11:27] <dwatkins> mmm, tea
[11:28]  * dwatkins will be going to get a nice big mug of Earl Grey shortly
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: anything that doesn't work specifically?
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: I get the main page in chromium
[11:28] <popey> wfm screen-x
[11:28] <DJones> screen-x: Looks ok to me in chrome under windows
[11:28] <popey> chrome on windows
[11:28] <screen-x> page completely fails to appear for me, thanks for testing :)
[11:29] <dwatkins> screen-x: not a DNS problem, I presume
[11:29] <screen-x> popey: how big is the london hackspace after expansion?
[11:29] <andylockran> popey: oggcamp.. dead in chome :)
[11:29] <popey> not big enough
[11:29] <andylockran> ooh
[11:29] <andylockran> loaded
[11:29] <popey> :)
[11:29] <andylockran> just takes a while
[11:29] <popey> blamefab
[11:29] <popey> his host
[11:29] <screen-x> dwatkins: I don't think so, as works in ff
[11:29] <andylockran> popey: madlab manchester?
[11:30] <andylockran> http://madlab.org.uk/
[11:30] <popey> needs to be 3/4 rooms with over 100 capacity
[11:30] <andylockran> how many sq feet?
[11:30] <popey> no idea, depends how big 100 people are
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> are they americans?
[11:31] <popey> hehe
[11:31] <screen-x> heh
[11:31]  * popey notes maco is mercan and is probably the smallest person I have met
[11:31] <andylockran> 200 sq feet per person is recommended for offices
[11:32] <andylockran> crikey
[11:32] <czajkowski> popey: surely mat revell is
[11:32] <czajkowski> he's ickle
[11:32] <andylockran> bars recommnd 15-50 sq feet
[11:32] <BigRedS> Hmm. I need to get a list of installed packages off a backup of a system, so I can't just got dpkg -l (actually, I need the version of a single package). I'm guessing it's under /var/cache/apt somewhere, anyone know exactly where off the top of their head?
[11:32] <andylockran> so for 100 people, we're looking between 3000-5000 sq foot of space
[11:33] <andylockran> MadLab is 1000 sq feet - so too small
[11:34] <popey> BigRedS: dpkg --get-selections > file_containing_a_nice_list_of_installed_stuff.txt
[11:34] <popey> BigRedS: you can't chroot it?
[11:34] <screen-x> BigRedS: /var/lib/dpkg/status ?
[11:34] <BigRedS> popey: Nah, it's a drive plugged in to a running system, and I can't take that system down
[11:35] <popey> you could chroot it on the running system?
[11:35] <BigRedS> oh, yeah
[11:35] <BigRedS> thought up a completely different, convoluted way of using chroot to do my first idea...
[11:39] <screen-x> BigRedS: cat /var/lib/dpkg/status |grep -B1 "Status: install ok installed" |grep Package |sed 's/Package: //'
[11:40] <screen-x> if you can't chroot..
[11:40] <BigRedS> screen-x: I just vimmed and /'d a couple of times :)
[11:40] <screen-x> :)
[11:40] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod morning
[11:41] <czajkowski> davmor2: f'way
[11:43] <shauno> bit late now, but dpkg has a --admindir option to deal with that.  dpkg --admindir=/backups/var/lib/dpkg --get-selections
[11:43] <screen-x> ooh didn't know that, thanks shauno
[11:43] <BigRedS> shauno: aha! I was hoping for one of those, but none of my searches in man dpkg found it
[11:44]  * BigRedS notes that down for future reference
[11:45] <popey> thats handy!
[11:45] <czajkowski> http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+a_failure_to_plan_on_your_part,311781262 should be worn to all client meetings
[11:46] <bigcalm> I've met very few clients who admit to being wrong
[11:50] <bigcalm> #ot -  http://imgur.com/yydvc
[11:50] <andylockran> in the bind config, should I put multiple NS records?
[11:51] <screen-x> andylockran: when delegating a subdomain?
[11:51] <andylockran> got the line: example.com. IN NS ns.example.com.
[11:51] <andylockran> if I have multiple NS for example.com, do I put them here (eg example.com. IN NS ns1.example.com.
[11:52] <screen-x> andylockran: yeah
[11:52] <andylockran> ta
[11:52] <screen-x> then add glue records, as the nameservers are in zone
[11:54] <andylockran> screen-x: and I'll add the glue records with my registrar?
[11:55] <screen-x> andylockran: yes, that sounds better, I was still in delegation mode..
[11:55] <andylockran> no worries
[11:56] <andylockran> I'm happy.  Though my registrar wanted to charge me £50 for adding glue records
[11:56] <screen-x> :(
[11:56] <andylockran> anyone with 123-reg .. know what they charge?
[11:56] <screen-x> I just started using gandi.net as recommended by someone in here ( MartijnVdS I think)
[11:57] <bigcalm> Glue?
[11:57] <screen-x> Seems pretty good so far, they let you edit your actual zone file with a text area :)
[11:57] <screen-x> bigcalm: a records for name servers that are in zone.
[11:57] <bigcalm> Ok
[11:58] <bigcalm> I make do with joker.com but don't mess with DNS that much
[11:59] <daubers> Wootables
[12:00] <daubers> Starting to get the hang of this TCP/IP communications thing
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: hm? :)
[12:01] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: was it you that recommend gandi.net to me? I'm now using them and happy :)
[12:02]  * BigRedS has been reccomended gandi for domain registration
[12:02] <BigRedS> I very much like their tagline
[12:02] <BigRedS> and the fact that they do t-shirts...
[12:03] <screen-x> heh NSF#UUK
[12:03]  * daubers uses gandi
[12:03] <daubers> Nice being able to directly edit your own zone file
[12:03] <bigcalm> Also nice to have pushy clicky options
[12:03] <daubers> yup
[12:03] <bigcalm> Getting old again
[12:04] <bigcalm> Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council - interesting
[12:06] <andylockran> I think I'm about to break my DNS for a bit :p
[12:06] <screen-x> andylockran: what are you up to?
[12:07] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/183971 golly
[12:07] <popey> 2TB for 70 quid
[12:08]  * bigcalm slaps Clear Hand for being slightly silly
[12:08] <bigcalm> It doesn't know about price reductions I see
[12:09] <bigcalm> Oh, it would still have been cheaper on ebuyer anyway
[12:09] <bigcalm> Why is it bothering to tell me about Amazon then?
[12:10] <andylockran> do gandhi do free transferS?
[12:10] <bigcalm> You could use everydns
[12:11] <screen-x> andylockran: I don't think they charge for the transfer itself, you just pay for a years registration when you transfer.
[12:11] <andylockran> screen-x: that looks good - and do they allow you to create glue records for free?
[12:11] <andylockran> if so, I'm there :)
[12:12]  * screen-x checks
[12:13] <screen-x> yeah, there is a glue record management section, that doesn't want any payment.
[12:14] <andylockran> awesome
[12:14]  * MartijnVdS sniffs some glue records
[12:14] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: dns abuse can kill instantly
[12:16] <BigRedS> screen-x: subject to TTL, surely?
[12:16] <screen-x> :p
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> I've seen 10-day TTLs + complaining customers ("I've moved my domain elsewhere but it doesn't work")
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> :(
[12:23] <bigcalm> We sometimes tell clients to edit their hosts file if they are that desprate
[12:23] <andylockran> free SSL with gandhi for a year too
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "My customers can't see the site!"
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: and that's after explaining ttl
[12:24] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: little you can do with such clients
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> Euthanasia.
[12:25] <bigcalm> Our default statement prior to a DNS change is "can take up to 3 days but will usually happen within 1"
[12:25] <bigcalm> Having a 10 day TTL seems a bit extreem
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: they set it themselves
[12:25] <bigcalm> HAHA
[12:26]  * MartijnVdS has 5-minute TTLs everywhere
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> bandwidth is cheap.. and my sites aren't as popular as the googles/amazons of this world.
[12:28] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: the rfc says anything less than or equal to 30 min may be interpreted as 30 min
[12:28] <BigRedS> not that it makes any odds, really
[12:28] <BigRedS> but I tend to have either 0 or 3hr
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> "MAY" ;)
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> the keyword meaning "let's not implement this unless we have time to spare and everything else is perfect"
[12:28] <BigRedS> haha
[12:29] <BigRedS> oh if onyl
[12:29] <BigRedS> er, only
[12:42] <Azelphur> popey: got my logitech quickcam, seems to work well :)
[12:43] <popey> cool
[12:43] <popey> what the max res?
[12:44] <Azelphur> cheese shows up to 800x600
[12:44] <popey> it should go much higher than that
[12:45] <Azelphur> *shrug* maybe cheese doesn't support the higher resolutions?
[12:46] <popey> !info guvcview
[12:46] <popey> use that
[12:49] <Azelphur> popey: that also only shows up to 800x600
[12:53] <popey> what does lsusb say it is Azelphur ?
[12:56] <popey> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 046d:0990 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Pro 9000
[12:56] <popey> thats mine
[12:56] <Azelphur> popey: Bus 002 Device 018: ID 046d:0809 Logitech, Inc. Webcam Pro 9000 same
[12:57] <popey> not same
[12:57] <Azelphur> oh yea, slightly different
[12:58] <Azelphur> gtx 570, 12GB DDR3 1600, 40GB SSD and Asus Sabertooth X58 on my bed :D
[13:01] <popey> Azelphur: http://www.quickcamteam.net/devices/logitech_uvc_frame_format_list.pdf
[13:02] <screen-x> heh ups reckon my parcel is in swansea, its actual in my office in bridgend :)
[13:02] <popey> hmm, that reckons mine can do 1280x720
[13:02] <Azelphur> popey: it says mine can do 1600x1200 o.O
[13:02] <popey> same here
[13:03] <popey> I didn't mean 1280x720 was max
[13:03] <popey> just that it was a resolution I was after and didnt realise it did it
[13:03] <Azelphur> hehe
[13:03] <Azelphur> doesn't matter too much anyway, there arn't any video conferencing solutions I know of that broadcast at anywhere near these resolutions anyway
[13:03] <brobostigon> seven year itch, channel 4, :)
[13:05] <popey> i have never used my for video conferencing
[13:06] <Azelphur> haha
[13:06] <andylockran> just for skyping with people :p  like me
[13:06] <popey> well.. http://popey.com/webcam/
[13:07] <andylockran> also..
[13:07] <BigRedS> i still think that's one of the most peculiarly positioned webcams I've ever seen :)
[13:07] <andylockran> I'd quite like to see a head pop up behind the garden gate
[13:07] <popey> it's on the slant a bit
[13:08] <screen-x> popey you need a web interface for turning the fountain on :)
[13:11] <popey> i do
[13:12] <screen-x> an old switching ups with the battery removed should do it :)
[13:12] <bigcalm> popey: window needs cleaning ;)
[13:12] <BigRedS> nah, should be more cryptically triggered
[13:13] <BigRedS> whenever access_log has a prime number of lines, the fountain is on or somthing
[13:42] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[13:42] <screen-x> hi pr0ph3t
[13:43] <pr0ph3t> can you help me out please, I can't connect using mobile broadband, it can't register apparently
[13:44] <pr0ph3t> I am running Ubuntu maverick 10.10 64bit but with 2.6.37-rc8 kernel because a patch to support my hardware was released with this kernel
[13:45] <pr0ph3t> rc6 actually
[13:45] <pr0ph3t> the hardware is recognised but it doesn't register the network or something, on windows it works fine
[13:45] <screen-x> pr0ph3t: have you gone through the network manager mobile broadband setup process? It asks you which network your using and some other Qs..
[13:46] <pr0ph3t> screen-x, yes but I don't know how to debug it, syslog?
[13:46] <popey> I'd run network manager from the command line in --no-daemon mode
[13:49] <pr0ph3t> popey, I run nmcli dev and I get ttyUSB0 gsm disconnected
[13:49] <pr0ph3t> popey, that's my 3g modem
[13:51] <pr0ph3t> also I downloaded sakis3g and it gets stuck at the same point, it doesn't register it
[13:52] <pr0ph3t> so it says that I can define the isp from the command line FORCE_ISP="foo"
[13:53] <pr0ph3t> I tried changing foo with O2 - UK, the code for it or the apn
[13:54] <pr0ph3t> by doing ./sakis3g FORCE_ISP="O2 - UK" etc but nothing changed, I could not go past the registering phase
[13:54] <popey> like I say, I'd run network manager from the command line
[13:57] <pr0ph3t> popey nmcli stands for network manager command line
[13:58] <popey> yes, I know. never mind I was talking about running the network manager daemon. feel free to ignore m
[13:58] <popey> *me
[13:58] <pr0ph3t> popey, I have nm-applet in gnome, is that what you are referring to?
[13:59] <popey> no
[13:59] <popey> NetworkManager
[14:00] <popey> as in.. sudo killall NetworkManager, sudo NetworkManager --no-daemon
[14:00] <screen-x> are sterlingxs going out of business? they appear to have sold out of everything :(
[14:00] <popey> phone them up?
[14:00] <popey> they do pick up the phone
[14:00] <popey> nice people
[14:00] <screen-x> Yeah, I had a chat last time I ordered, and asked for an extra PSU :)
[14:01] <popey> heh
[14:03] <pr0ph3t> popey, can't kill the process, it auto restarts
[14:05] <screen-x> no answer on the phone :(
[14:06] <popey> yeah, you can
[14:06] <popey> screen-x: :(
[14:07] <BigRedS> pr0ph3t: /etc/init.d/network-manager stop
[14:07] <BigRedS> rather than killall nm-applet or somesuch
[14:07] <popey> and kill the applet too
[14:07] <BigRedS> oh, and that, then
[14:14] <pr0ph3t> popey, ok done, the device is recognised and managed by network manager
[14:15] <popey> and when you try to connect do you get any more debug info from the NetworkManager window?
[14:17] <pr0ph3t> popey, can I pass any commands now? I have wifi on auto so that's what it did after activating, deactivating and changing status to the gsm device
[14:17] <pr0ph3t> how do I do it, from another terminal?
[14:24] <popey> do what?
[14:24] <pr0ph3t> popey, I managed to get a response from network manager, it starts working on the device
[14:24] <pr0ph3t> popey, but then it says GSM connection failed
[14:25] <czajkowski> http://blog.dexy.it/315 so happy to see stuff like this happen :D
[14:25] <pr0ph3t> : (32) Unknown reason :S
[14:25] <pr0ph3t> popey, all this after completion of stage 1 of 5
[14:26] <popey> :(
[14:26] <pr0ph3t> it then deactivates the device
[14:27] <dutchie> czajkowski: that is pretty cool
[14:27] <czajkowski> dutchie: yup, she's very smart!
[14:27] <popey> she is!
[14:28] <screen-x> cool :)
[14:28] <czajkowski> should should this to the Ubuntu doc team, see documentaion :)
[14:29] <daubers> Hmm... the czajkowski output protocol needs better docs
[14:30] <czajkowski> daubers: marking invalid :)
[14:31] <daubers> :p
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> you accidentally a word word
[14:32] <Laney> i can't decide whether i like quora or not
[14:32] <daubers> My need to abuse quickly again later. Throw together a quick gui to test the tcp comms stuff I'm building
[14:32] <Laney> it seems like a more clunky stackexchange
[14:34] <screen-x> Quora annoyed me as on its front page it says "login with one of these services".... but what it really means is "create an account using your username from one of these services"
[14:37] <Laney> yeah
[14:37] <Laney> and automatically add all of your contacts
[14:40] <MartijnVdS> and send those people a "JOIN US NOW" email?
[14:43] <nperry> Where are the settings for gnome-display-properties, since installing NVidia i get an error message every boot saying unable to set settings
[14:49] <nperry> by
[14:51] <screen-x> nperry: I'm not sure, but I'd assume gconf or xorg.conf
[14:54] <nperry> screen-x: Can't seem to find it in gconf, and nvidia-settings replaced the whole xorg.conf file
[14:55] <screen-x> nperry: which settings are you looking for? X configuration?
[14:56] <nperry> No. Orginally I was using Nouveau but needed 3d support, so swapped to nvidia. Now everytime I log in a nofity comes up saying unable to start gnome-display-properties settings
[14:57] <nperry> (Sorry didn't really explain the situation)
[14:57] <screen-x> nperry: odd, maybe do a ps when that notification is displayed, and work out which process is causing it?
[14:58] <screen-x> Is there a  more intelligent way to get PID from an X window?
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> check ~/.xsession-errors
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> it should have stderr from all processes started
[15:02] <screen-x> ahh, for info, to find the PID, run  "xprop |grep PID"  in a terminal then click a window.
[15:07] <nperry> The notify-osd isn't going to stay that long...
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> have you checked the .xsession-errors log?
[15:12] <nperry> MartijnVdS: Yes, can't seem to see anything in there
[15:14]  * MartijnVdS purges gwibber on another machine
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> stupid crashy piece of...
[15:14] <popey> :)
[15:15] <czajkowski> gwibber dev folks are really good if you do have a bug they will look at it
[15:15] <czajkowski> they are usually plagued by my machine at times
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: not the maverick version
[15:16] <AlanBell> afternoon all
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> \o
[15:16] <AlanBell> popey: yes, the expo is on my todo list
[15:16] <popey> AlanBell: need help?
[15:17] <AlanBell> not yet, I will follow up with Maggie
[15:17] <czajkowski> woo plugfest nearly ready to go live...
[15:59] <nperry> Hello iMacros in Chrome, time to loop you 2000 time to delete my facebook wall posts
[15:59] <nperry> Was also a big facebook friend cull yesterday 350 down to 59 :)
[16:10] <andylockran> crikey
[16:18]  * MartijnVdS has delete sprees like that sometimes
[16:26] <andylockran> hey guys - just looking at BIND DNS views for internal/external DNS lookups
[16:30] <bigcalm> And?
[16:32] <andylockran> looks good :)
[16:32] <bigcalm> :)
[16:42] <kvarley> Oooo...OTR plugin has a java library, somebody put it on android? =O
[16:42] <kvarley> *=P
[16:43] <kvarley> For 11.04, is unity shipped with the desktop disc too?
[16:44] <dutchie> kvarley: as i understand it, the desktop and netbook images are being merged, so yes
[16:44] <popey> kvarley: unity is the default desktop
[16:44] <kvarley> popey & dutchie: Ah ok thanks, that'll be interesting
[16:44] <popey> indeed it will
[16:44] <sectorb> chaps, why does this not work? ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com
[16:44] <sectorb>  6 Jan 16:44:00 ntpdate[6646]: no server suitable for synchronization found
[16:45]  * czajkowski is feckin shattered
[16:45] <czajkowski> yay for working from home tomorrow
[16:45] <sectorb> i can ping ntp.ubuntu.com, i suspect something is wonky with ntpdate
[16:46] <kvarley> czajkowski Lucky you, nice way to end the working week
[16:47] <popey> alan@mrevo:~$ sudo ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com 6 Jan 16:47:05 ntpdate[10079]: adjust time server <IP_ADDRESS> offset 0.000016 sec
[16:47] <popey> works for me
[16:48] <diplo> sectorb, could try ntpdate uk.pool.ntp.org
[16:58]  * popey tickles mgdm
[17:02] <seeker> :O tickling!
[17:44] <gord> i thought i had a hot pixel on my nice pretty LCD screen, turned out to be a full stop. never felt more stupid than i did just then
[17:46] <moreati> gord: I've fallen for that many times :)
[18:01]  * MichealH laughs and points at gord then hides
[18:06] <andylockran> ok, so DNS views.
[18:06] <andylockran> I've got an internal view, and external view
[18:06] <andylockran> is it possible to have those addresses that don't appear in an internal view fall back to the external view ip?
[18:07] <andylockran> http://www.howtoforge.com/two_in_one_dns_bind9_views <- the solution I've found appears to use the external zone as an include, with extra addresses available for internal addresses
[18:08] <andylockran> but I'd like to override some (i.e. if you connect to ldap.example.com inside the network, you get an internal IP, but from outside, you get a different one)
[18:10] <bigcalm> Is there an LTS every 2 years?
[18:12] <Andy_> Hi, can anyone help me with 10.10 ignoring xorg,conf gamma setting please?
[18:12] <andylockran> if I have two A records, which one will take precedent
[18:12] <moreati> bigcalm: more or less, yes
[18:13] <bigcalm> moreati: so I can't be sure that in April of every even year will bring me a LTS release?
[18:14] <Azelphur> just swapped out a 1TB for a 2TB in my mythtv box, up to a total of 3TB storage now \o/
[18:14] <bigcalm> That's a lot of porn
[18:14] <moreati> bigcalm: no, it isn't guaranteed. 6.06 came out in June
[18:15] <Azelphur> bigcalm: indeed
[18:15] <bigcalm> moreati: I see
[18:17] <bigcalm> Is 12.04 intended to be a LTS?
[18:18] <moreati> bigcalm: pass, that maight not have been decided yet
[18:19]  * mgdm looks at popey
[18:22] <bigcalm> moreati: the server living with my parents is running 9.04 and I want to get it onto LTS releases. My musing was, do I put it onto 10.04.1 this weekend or wait for something else
[18:22] <bigcalm> Taken from http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu "The Ubuntu team broke new ground in committing to a programme of scheduled releases on a predictable six-month basis. It was decided that every fourth release, issued on a two-year basis, would receive long-term support (LTS)."
[18:23] <Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202010/IMG_20110106_181654.jpg
[18:23] <Azelphur> today is a good day.
[18:24] <Azelphur> just waiting for the CPU now :p
[18:24] <bigcalm> That's a big box for a gfx card
[18:24] <Azelphur> it's a big gfx card :)
[18:31] <Andy_> exit
[19:05] <gord> Azelphur, gtx570? geeeeeez, your not gonna have to upgrade for a long time
[19:06] <Azelphur> ;)
[19:06] <Azelphur> it was very nearly a GTX 580 until amazon hiked the price by £140
[19:09] <gord> okay so you'll be shipping the gpu to me right?
[19:13] <hazrpg> wow... took ages for me to ghost my account properly lol
[19:13] <hazrpg> clearly not with it lol
[19:14] <hazrpg> got a question for you guys
[19:14] <hazrpg> trying to scan my mates laptops hard drive for bad sectors (and to fix any if found) - how would I do that with ubuntu?
[19:14] <hazrpg> don't know the ubuntu command for that
[19:15] <dutchie> badblocks
[19:15] <dutchie> or use the disk utility from system->admin in recent releases
[19:18] <hazrpg> ah brilliant, thanks :)
[19:18] <hazrpg> haven't updated my ubuntu at home yet to 10.10 yet
[19:26] <Azelphur> what's the tech they use at shop doorways to stop people stealing stuff? the alarm. Is it RFID?
[19:26] <dutchie> i thought it was metal detectors
[19:27] <gord> but then they would go off all the time
[19:27] <Azelphur> ^
[19:27] <dutchie> yeah, that's why it was only "i thought"
[19:27] <directhex> Michael_Judd, boo
[19:27] <moreati> Azelphur: a varient of it. The security tag has a coil of wire that the door pillars can dettect
[19:27] <Michael_Judd> :) - noticed you on here ...
[19:28] <Azelphur> I see :P
[19:29] <moreati> Azelphur: I think the difference is that RFID is much closer range, and the RFID tag actually transmits an ID rather than just resonating at the chosen frequency
[19:29] <Azelphur> fun
[19:29] <gord> Azelphur, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_tags interesting read
[19:29] <moreati> security tag says I'm here, RFID says I am number 1234
[19:29] <Azelphur> I see
[19:29] <Azelphur> ty :D
[19:30] <moreati> most welcome
[19:32] <gord> really shouldn't of put all my dishes in the dish washer right before tea time =\
[19:33] <dutchie> i have to say, using unity on this netbook really makes me wish it was touchscreen
[19:33] <dutchie> old mutter unity, that is
[19:33] <czajkowski> AlanBell: can you pm me the conf call numbers :(
[19:45] <brobostigon> evening all.
[19:50] <hazrpg> does badblocks actually fix the bad blocks too? or does it just check to see if there are any?
[19:50] <dutchie> no, it just finds them iirc
[19:51] <gord> you can't fix bad blocks, badblocks can however mark the blocks as bad (hense the name) and thus the filesystem will not use them
[19:51] <gord> you can't recover the blocks though
[19:57] <brobostigon> ok, tell my guys and gals. i am discussing here with my dad, why because of the cost difference, and hw differences and software differences, at the moment, a tablet by whatever make, at the moment has significant disadvanteges.
[19:58] <ali1234> disadvantages compared to what?
[19:59] <brobostigon> ali1234: compared to something like a standerd laptop or netbook.
[19:59] <ali1234> well i can't really think of any
[19:59] <ali1234> a laptop is basically a bad compromise
[20:00] <brobostigon> less external ports, no dvd/cd drive,
[20:00] <ali1234> they are too big and heavy to use anywhere but at a desk, yet they are too small to be as easy to use as a desktop pc
[20:00] <ali1234> i haven't used my dvd burner for about 6 years
[20:01] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I cant ring in
[20:01] <ali1234> also tablets don't have less external ports than a netbook, they are about the same
[20:01] <ali1234> a couple of usb ports
[20:01] <ali1234> what more do you want?
[20:01] <brobostigon> ali1234: iwant something with a real keyboard, where i am not limited by the software i can run.
[20:01] <ali1234> buy a pc then duh
[20:02] <gord> then you don't want a tablet brobostigon :)
[20:02] <brobostigon> gord: no i dont.
[20:02] <gord> thats okay! some people do want a tablet, thats okay too
[20:03] <brobostigon> gord: iwas just saying to my dad, a touchscreen keyboard is going to be harder to type with, and he is going to be more  limited in the software he can use.
[20:03] <ali1234> a tablet is not a PC, it has totally different use cases
[20:03] <ali1234> look at the kindle for example
[20:03] <ali1234> pretty much limited to reading books. does anyone care? no, because they bought it specifically for reading books
[20:03] <gord> <3 my kindle, don't want to code on it ;)
[20:03] <ali1234> or the ipod
[20:04] <brobostigon> ali1234: a kindle is a low cost, ebook reader, and not capable of much more.
[20:04] <gord> it actually is
[20:04] <gord> just runs linux, you can write programs for it and everything
[20:04] <ali1234> except for some half-assed apps, you are pretty much limited to listening to music of videos if you have a newer one... but thats ok because that's why people bought it
[20:04] <brobostigon> gord: very, yes, :)
[20:05] <ali1234> mobile phones are the same way
[20:05] <brobostigon> i would rather have my eeepc anyday.
[20:05] <DJones> brobostigon: Using an android phone with swype, that keyboard seem easier (to me) to use than any physical keyboard I've used in the past, its just going to be personal preference, if you want a physical keyboard then a tablet would be useless
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> I like my Sony laptop
[20:05] <ali1234> before the iphone app store only about 1% of people would install extra apps on their smartphone
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> But I see the use of a tablet (and I already have an ebook reader)
[20:06] <ali1234> because most people just don't care, they don't want the flexibility of a PC, they just want something that works when you buy it
[20:06] <gord> i don't see the use of a tablet when i have a netbook, but i would love a netbook that transforms into a tablet
[20:06] <brobostigon> DJones: agreed, and i think with my dads preferences, as ihave explanied to him, a touchscreen keyboard isnt really going to work for him.
[20:06] <ali1234> what's wrong with touchscreen keyboards?
[20:07] <ali1234> if you can't get along with a ts keyboard you are not going to like the tiny keyboard on a netbook either
[20:07] <gord> no tactile sensation, touchscreens are laggy and innacurate
[20:07] <ali1234> so good luck carrying around a full size USB keyboard with you all the time
[20:07] <brobostigon> ali1234: it doesnt have the feel you get from a real keyboard, hence i have my htc dream, which has a proper real keybord,
[20:07] <ali1234> gord: spoken like someone who has never used one
[20:07] <gord> tiny netbook keyboards are a thousand times better
[20:07] <gord> ali1234, erm well done at assuming there, i have and do use touchscreen keyboards
[20:08] <ali1234> so, you claim there is "no tactile sensation" - this is completely false
[20:08] <ali1234> as you would know if you had actually used one, the phone uses the built in vibrator to provide it
[20:08] <gord> well there isn't, do you have a touch screen that can have keyboard imprints now?
[20:08] <gord> ha no, thats not tactile sensation, thats vibrating
[20:09] <ali1234> do you even know what the word tactile means?
[20:09] <gord> you can't feel the edges of the keys
[20:09] <brobostigon> atthe moment, 8pen seems to me, yo be the cloest to a logical touchscreen keyboard, if only i got some real tactile sensation from it,
[20:10] <ali1234> because you can really feel the edges of keys on those chiclet keyboards that all mobile devices have
[20:10] <gord> sure, i don't like those keyboards either, but we are talking about netbook keyboards here
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> gord: http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/netbookc/macbook-unboxkeyboard.jpg
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> my Sony has a keyboard like that, love it
[20:11] <ali1234> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2279596697_a774ef8018.jpg
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah those suck ;)
[20:11] <gord> MartijnVdS, heh yeah i hear people love those, i have never gotten along with them though, maybe i have weird fingers ;)
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> gord: sausage fingers 8-)
[20:12] <gord> ali1234, yup i have a netbook that is like that, can feel the edges and type on it really well
[20:13] <brobostigon> i am on my eeepc right now, can i run full blown debian on a tablet, and have a full blown keyboard, and run most full blown software, NO.
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> I want a tablet that's just a web browser :)
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> gmail, discogs, facebook
[20:14] <ali1234> by definition a tablet does not have a keyboard
[20:14] <gord> brobostigon, the keyboard maybe not, but i think you can do the other two, with a little hacking
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it could have a bluetooth keyboard option :)
[20:15] <ali1234> or a usb keyboard
[20:15] <brobostigon> gord: good point, probebly, yes,
[20:16] <ali1234> http://vimeo.com/groups/687/videos/17230137
[20:17] <brobostigon> gord: however i doubt, lets say with the IPAD, those popssibilities are there. however with pure darwin, the basis of ios/mac os x, my specs would be possible.
[20:17] <gord> yeah i wouldn't use an ipad for hacking myself ;)
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: galaxy tab? :)
[20:17] <gord> maybe some cheep android tablet
[20:17] <brobostigon> spoton MartijnVdS gord :)
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> I've played with it a bit in a local store
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> I think it's just a size too small
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> It's only a little bigger than my nexus one :)
[20:20]  * gord grumbles something about his N1 still not having gingerbread
[20:20] <moreati> what's the query? iPad sized device good for hacking?
[20:21] <brobostigon> this is why, my htc dream, has a very differnent purpose, to my  eeepc, but i dont try and do similer FULL BLOWN tasks on my htc dream as i do on my eeepc.
[20:21] <brobostigon> even though, i can run fullblown debian on my htc dream,
[20:22] <brobostigon> but it is all about, what you want, andexpect your device and its software tobe able to do,
[20:23] <gord> hrm, seems like its much harder to encode grayscale movies, booo. 60fps on a colour film vs 15fps on dr strangelove. gonna take forever to encode my older movies :(
[20:23] <brobostigon> gord: that film rocks. :)
[20:23] <brobostigon> satire at its best, :)
[20:43] <brobostigon> is there a way of copying *.jpg directly to a folder on that same mountpoint, ?
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: cp *.jpg /some/folder
[20:44] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cp: cannot stat `*.jpg': No such file or directory
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no such file or directory.. do you have anything matching that patterin in .? :)
[20:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, loads of .jpg
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: nog .JPG or .jpeg ?
[20:45] <gord> sure they aren't .JPG's? camera's like to save them as JPG
[20:47] <brobostigon> it is showing them as .JPG , and "cp: cannot stat `*.JPG': No such file or directory" is the return.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: try ls *.JPG
[20:49] <brobostigon> ls *.JPG
[20:49] <brobostigon> ls: cannot access *.JPG: No such file or directory
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and just "ls"?
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> (pastebin, or one sample line)
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> (but you know that :))
[20:50] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: its showing .JPG
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: can you paste a line?
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> just to be sure :)
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> maybe they're .JPG[space] or something
[20:50] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i think i have it, some are copying.
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> what happens when you try to tab-expand? does it show "special" chars at the end?
[20:51] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: none,
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> so it's working now? what did you do?
[20:56] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am not sure.
[21:01] <ocean> hi guys. i have a problem with my new hp laptop. after dual booting ubuntu 10.10 with win 7 i find that the grub is being deleted very frequently and i have to use the live cd to resore it through some commands taught by my freind as i am not good with command line. i was wondering if i can make a bootable grub 2 cd so that everytime it happens i don have to worry.if its possible pleaase let me know how can i make one.regards
[21:03] <ocean> sory i guys. if any one has asnwered to my query pls type it once again as i was forced to quit
[21:04] <Azelphur> ocean: I've seen another guy in here with HP and grub problems too, so your not alone
[21:04] <Azelphur> I know you can create a grub boot CD but I don't know how
[21:05] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have identified the issue, windows, pictures from my mum.
[21:06] <ocean> Azelphur, thanks a lot. i have filed that one on the ubuntu launchpad. hopin they will fix it.if i make a grub cd do u think it will help me to boot to ubuntu that way? is it a logical thinkin
[21:07] <Yorvyk> ocean, have a look at http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
[21:09] <brobostigon> and why uppercase file extentions, :(
[21:24] <ledzeplin1989> hello all, I was wondering if any of you know much about deluge thin client?
[21:24] <Azelphur> ledzeplin1989: nope but it sounds interesting o.O
[21:24] <Azelphur> I use the deluge web interface
[21:25] <ledzeplin1989> well it's similar... just instead of using the web ui you use the deluge client as just a client to connect to the deamon, but it reffers to the web ui too
[21:26] <Azelphur> ohhh, you mean using deluge-gtk to connect to a remote deluge backend?
[21:26] <Azelphur> Yes, I've done that :)
[21:26] <ledzeplin1989> I had a few problems with deluged the other week... went to deluge irc channel and got no help from them, so I gave up and removed it all...
[21:27] <Azelphur> :(
[21:27] <Azelphur> what was up with it?
[21:29] <ledzeplin1989> I reinstalled it all disevening but cant get deluged to start up (same problem as before) i run 'deluged -d' and it brings back "permission denied and my mate said to run it with a special deluge user but he cant remember how and i haven't got a clue
[21:30] <Azelphur> weird :S
[21:30] <Azelphur> I usually start the daemon with the webui if ever
[21:31] <ledzeplin1989> web ui never see's it... it used to and then one day i rebooted for some reason or another and wouldn't start up again... i used it on my old server too before and same result
[21:32] <Azelphur> :(
[21:33] <ledzeplin1989> I beed on and off linux for years but ive been all out with it for about a year now but still slowly learning with it
[21:36] <Azelphur> hehe :)
[21:39] <ledzeplin1989> i think my mates got ssh in later and have a look for me but thanks :)
[21:41] <ledzeplin1989> by any chance do you know when there gonna bring out the beta for 11.04?
[21:42] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[21:43] <ledzeplin1989> thanks brobostigon :)
[21:43] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: youre welcome, :)
[21:45] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: for the next release, repace natty with the next release code, :)
[21:47] <ledzeplin1989> brobostigon: the only thing that bothers me is unity being introduced but i heard you can put gnome on it still so thats something :)
[21:48] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: it i meant to change between both, so ie, ona fresh install go to unity, however if the hw doesnt suport go to normal gnome, and so on.
[21:49] <ledzeplin1989> ahh right
[21:50] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: or permenently use gnome-shell or gnome2.
[21:50] <ledzeplin1989> hmmmm :) thanks
[21:50] <ledzeplin1989> have you tryed the alpha yet for natty
[21:50] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: ithink that is the case, i maybe wrong though, but that is how iunderstand it,
[21:50] <brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: i havent, no.
[21:51] <ledzeplin1989> I'm just installing in virtualbox now to see how it looks so far... at the very least i'll have my server running under it.
[21:52] <gord> there are two sessions in natty, you can either log into unity or "classic desktop" which has a gnome panel and is similar to 10.10
[21:53] <brobostigon> gord: thank you for clairifying,:)
[21:53] <ledzeplin1989> ah, thats good :) thanks gord
[22:38] <AlanBell> can someone have a look at this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/test.html in chrome and/or other browsers to see if the text renders OK or overprints
[22:40] <Yorvyk> OK in Chromium latest nightly
[22:42] <AlanBell> thanks, I think it is a bug in the chromium in 10.04 which is 8.0.552.224 (68599)
[22:44] <hazrpg> works fine on FF 10.10 liveCD
[22:44] <hazrpg> FireFox, ubuntu 10.10 LiveCD*
[22:44] <Azelphur> AlanBell: fine on chrome
[22:47] <AlanBell> thanks
[22:48] <brobostigon> AlanBell: fine here also in chromium 10.0.629 r.70535
[22:48] <AlanBell> anyone not see it fine?
[22:49] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/chromium.png
[22:49] <AlanBell> looks like that for me, and that was the issue with planet.ubuntu.com for czajkowski and others
[22:49] <brobostigon> AlanBell: same as here.
[22:50] <brobostigon> AlanBell: noissues, but i am not inside ubuntu, i am on debian sid.
[22:52] <czajkowski> should be fixed now thought...
[22:52] <AlanBell> czajkowski: only on planet
[22:52] <AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
[22:52] <AlanBell> and I wanted to find out what the actual problem was, I was worried that the font was broken
[22:53] <AlanBell> font-size: 12px;height: 500px; line-height: 16px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility;
[22:53] <AlanBell> it is a combination of all of those
[22:53] <czajkowski> AlanBell: talk to A again when she's online tomorrow
[22:53] <AlanBell> will do
[22:54] <brobostigon> AlanBell: is there something specific in saif html, that would cause it to possibly fail, or fail in specific browser or versions, ?
[22:54] <brobostigon> said*
[22:54] <popey> yes, bugs.
[22:55] <AlanBell> yes, all those bits of css together make it fail in chromium
[22:55] <brobostigon> elaborate popey
[22:55] <AlanBell> chromium that is in 10.04
[22:55] <AlanBell> 10.10 rather
[22:55] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i see, there is not fail here, ido haveseveral previous chromium versions, i think,
[22:56] <AlanBell> it only fails on the first load of the page, refresh and it is fine
[22:56] <brobostigon> AlanBell: so i in debian, would be a ble to check, nor be afected ?
[22:56] <brobostigon> wouldnt*
[22:56] <AlanBell> I would be interested in your testing results for older chromiums
[22:56] <AlanBell> 8.0.552.224 (68599) is the chromium build I have
[22:57] <brobostigon> AlanBell: iwill try previous version i hve,and report back tmrw, i will make a note to myself for tmrw, is tht ok ?
[22:57] <dutchie> chromia?
[22:57] <AlanBell> sure brobostigon, thanks
[22:57] <brobostigon> AlanBell: that is amuch older version that i have here,
[22:57] <brobostigon> than*
[22:57] <AlanBell> !info chromium-browser
[22:58] <hamitron> :)
[22:59] <brobostigon> how do i get the version here. ofof dpkg ?
[23:00] <hamitron> dpkg --version
[23:00] <hamitron> ?
[23:00] <brobostigon> hamitron: of chromium-browser
[23:02] <AlanBell> dpkg-query -W chromium-browser
[23:03] <hamitron> nice AB
[23:03] <hamitron> :)
[23:04] <brobostigon> chromium-browser        10.0.629.0~svn20110105r70535-0ubuntu1~ucd1~lucid
[23:04] <brobostigon> in debian sid.,
[23:04] <AlanBell> 0ubuntu1???
[23:05] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i am using an ubuntu ppa in debian.
[23:05] <AlanBell> ah
[23:13]  * brobostigon puts ch4 on. x-files.
[23:16] <brobostigon> wth, billy connelly, interesting,
[23:26] <gord> brobostigon, *RUN*
[23:26] <gord> thats the terrible awful new xfiles movie
[23:26] <gord> run before it destroys all that is good in your soul
[23:26] <brobostigon> gord: ihvent seen it yet,
[23:27] <brobostigon> the first i liked.
[23:28] <brobostigon> it is definatly difererent to the firstone,
[23:38] <brobostigon> gord: i fear you are right.
[23:38] <hamitron> grrrr
[23:39] <hamitron> 1 week and I not enjoyed a single coffee
[23:40] <hamitron> I simply can't make the stuff to a drinkable standard now, or my tastes are still broken from illness
[23:54] <brobostigon> i fear i shouldnt have watched this, it is ok, but not of the quality i expect.


[06:38] <DanChapman> good morning all
[06:42] <elfy> hi DanChapman
[06:43] <DanChapman> elfy howdy :-)
[07:04] <jibel> good morning
[10:08] <slickymaster> morning all
[10:08] <DanChapman> morning slickymaster :-)
[10:08] <slickymaster> DanChapman: hi Dan, ;)
[10:09] <slickymaster> elfy: ping
[10:10] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:13] <DanChapman> morning davmor2
[10:18] <slickymaster> morning davmor2
[10:25]  * DanChapman is well impressed with the autopilot sandbox :-)
[11:06] <elfy> slickymaster: pong
[11:09] <slickymaster> elfy: good morning. I was planning on taking a stab at Forum Wiki Team, but it seems that there's nothing going on in team, is it stalled?
[11:09] <elfy> I think so - I've not had anything to do with it for a year
[11:10] <slickymaster> but do you think it's worthwhile?
[11:11] <hkker> hello
[11:11] <hkker> i want to get involved in QA, but my computer is so old that it's processor doesn't support virtualizing 64bit systems in virtualbox
[11:12] <hkker> is there any other way i can contribute?(32bit is way too slow in virtualbox, basically freezes my computer)
[11:12] <hkker> like maybe test live cd-s
[11:14] <DanChapman> hkker you can always run Saucy on your computer. were getting close to Beta now so its pretty stable and report any bugs you come across.
[11:15] <slickymaster> elfy: but do you think it's worthwhile?
[11:16] <elfy> well ... possibly if you can find a thread that could be wikified - not sure the team is worth resurrecting, the thread/wiki converter should still work
[11:18] <hkker> DanChapman : fortunately i have two hard drives so i can even install it OR i can make a LVM partition using the live cd. which one is more preferred in QA? in my view it shouldn't make a difference
[11:18] <slickymaster> elfy: I see. Well I won't waste much time on it, then. But if I do find one I'll do it then
[11:18] <slickymaster> thanks
[11:18] <elfy> welcome :)
[11:20] <DanChapman> hkker:  Everyway you can think of is 'preffered'. It all has to be tested somehow. :-) You could also get involved with contributing tetcases if your computer is not up to it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases
[11:21] <DanChapman> hkker: and here is an overview of some more stuff you can contribute to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview
[11:21] <hkker> oh also, i have never ever tested anything so i might need some mentoring from someone who has the time
[11:22] <hkker> but i'm more or less quite fast learner, i just need some guidance at first. as i have read from these pages you linked, there should be enough information for now.
[11:24] <DanChapman> hkker, read those links also check out here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ to see how we record our testing. And just fire any questions you have in here and someone will be about to help
[11:25] <hkker> thanks DanChapman
[11:25] <DanChapman> hkker: your welcome :-)
[11:25] <hkker> okay, ill do it later, i have a lecture
[11:28] <hkker> funny enough, the courses name is "Operating systems" and we are using win8(which i hate for obvious reasons) and 13.04 ubuntu. i just love it so i want to contribute somehow :)
[12:26] <pitti> Good morning
[12:26] <DanChapman> hey pitti o/
[12:26] <jibel> Good morning pitti
[12:27] <pitti> hey DanChapman, how are you?
[12:27] <pitti> bonjour jibel, comment ça va ?
[12:28] <jibel> pitti, ça va bien et toi? Comment se déroule plumbers?
[12:28] <DanChapman> pitti, I'm good thanks and yourself?
[12:29] <pitti> jibel: c'est bien, mais les derniers jours sont calmes
[12:29] <pitti> jibel: most of the talks happened Mo - Wed, yesterday and today are mostly workgroups
[12:30] <pitti> mais après deux semaines de conférences j'attends avec impatience à rentrer à maison
[12:34] <jibel> pitti, I can imagine :) Do you know if there are any videos/slides of the  talks? I didn't find any online.
[12:35] <pitti> jibel: they said they'll publish the videos etc. after the conf
[12:35] <pitti> jibel: slides are downloadable from the schedule, and I guess people put them into other places together with the notes
[12:35] <pitti> (I did so with umockdev)
[12:42] <pitti> thomi: having fun with https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/autopilot/1.3-fix-warning/+merge/186640 ?
[12:42] <pitti> thomi: so is that now the first unit test which actually assumes having a running session bus?
[12:43] <thomi> pitti: fun?
[12:43] <pitti> thomi: i. e. which you need to run through dbus-launch --exit-with-session?
[12:43]  * thomi is confused
[12:43] <pitti> thomi: or should that be a functional test instead?
[12:44] <thomi> pitti: ahhh, I hadn't actually seen that
[12:44] <thomi> hmmmm
[12:44] <pitti> thomi: fun> I thought the PS test rejected that like 5 times already
[12:44] <thomi> I'll provide a fake instead I guess
[12:44] <pitti> but that could have been on another MP
[12:44] <thomi> yeah, first rejection
[12:48] <thomi> ugh, too hard to fake. Will make it a functional test instead
[12:49] <rvr> thomi: Trying to run an autopilot test on the phone "Tests running... Ran 1 test in 0.208s OK", so seems that it didn't run any
[12:49] <rvr> thomi: Any tip?
[12:50] <thomi> rvr: run with -v and see what test ids it's actually running
[12:51] <rvr> 12:51:00.558 ERROR __init__:63 - Unity doesn't appear to be running, exiting.
[12:55] <thomi> pitti: I wonder if you could do a quick review of this please? I just moved the test case: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/autopilot/1.3-fix-warning/+merge/186640
[12:55] <thomi> pitti: of, and if you could top-approve it when you're done, that would be awesome
[12:56] <asac> hey
[12:57] <asac> who is leading the avengers testing efforts if jfunk isnt on?
[12:58] <thomi> asac: I don't think anyone is nominated. jfunk should be on about now though
[12:59] <asac> ok i wait for a moment :)
[12:59] <pitti> thomi: meeting now, but queueing
[12:59] <thomi> elopio: ping?
[12:59] <thomi> pitti: thanks
[13:01] <pitti> thomi: ah, easy one, approved
[13:01] <thomi> pitti: I wonder if you could do this as well? It's kind of urgent: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/autopilot/1.3-fix-click-packages/+merge/186779
[13:01] <thomi> my merging from 1.3 <-> trunk introduced a regression in click package support :-/
[13:02] <thomi> top of my TODO list for 1.4 is to refactor that code so we can get it under test
[13:02] <thomi> but for now, I want to get it fixed and released into saucy
[13:04] <asac> mzanetti: ok so build 57 will go out as the regression seem to have happened in the latest we landed today. so next build is blocked
[13:04] <asac> mzanetti: i commented on the bug
[13:05] <asac> it seems reproducible against build 57 by first apt-get update
[13:05] <asac> and then installing the unity8 autopilot
[13:05] <mzanetti> ah... ok... didn't do the apt-get upgrade.
[13:05] <mzanetti> that's why I couldn't reproduce so far
[13:05] <asac> mzanetti: dont do an upgrade ... just apt-get update; apt-get install unity8-autopilot
[13:05] <asac> mzanetti: thats enough
[13:06] <asac> the dist-upgrade will bring you more stuff in and who knows what other funny behaviour you might be fighting first then
[13:07] <asac> jfunk-otp: hi
[13:07] <asac> jfunk-otp: importnat thing
[13:08] <pitti> thomi: yep, queueing
[13:15] <pitti> thomi: done
[13:16] <thomi> pitti: thanks!
[14:00] <elopio> good morning!
[14:00] <elopio> thomi: pong.
[14:00] <thomi> elopio: hey, sorry, I wanted some reviews, but I got pitti to process them
[14:01] <thomi> elopio: wasnt' sure what time you started :)
[14:01] <elopio> thomi: no problem.
[14:01] <elopio> I almost always start at this time.
[14:03] <thomi> I'll have to re-learn what that time is when I get home :)
[14:10] <elopio> thomi: do you return today?
[14:10] <thomi> elopio: I fly out tomorrow morning
[14:10] <thomi> get home on Monday morning
[14:14] <rvr> thomi: Do autopilot needs any kind of setup to run on the phone, besides su - phablet?
[14:14] <rvr> Like setting dbus session
[14:15] <thomi> rvr: don't think so, but you're probably better off using phablet-test-run, since (AFAIK) that's what the CI team uses, so any magic that's required would be encoded in that script
[14:15] <mzanetti> asac: if you do a dist-upgrade. is the crash still there?
[14:15] <thomi> rvr: and really you want 'sudo -i -u phablet'
[14:16] <thomi> rvr: oh, sorry, I misread that - disregard
[14:16] <thomi> it's early :)
[14:17] <rvr> lol
[14:20] <cgoldberg> thomi, quick MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~coreygoldberg/autopilot/change-tox-tests/+merge/186806
[14:20] <thomi> cgoldberg: on it
[14:20] <cgoldberg> thomi, I had to leave early yesterday.. do you still have AP reviews you need looked at?
[14:22] <thomi> cgoldberg: when I run 'tox' I get lots of flake8 issues
[14:22] <thomi> cgoldberg: I wonder if we should fix those in a separate MP
[14:23] <cgoldberg> thomi, i was running into that.  it's running clean for me now though.  try `$ rm -rf .tox` and run again
[14:23] <thomi> cgoldberg: since I just branched your branch, shouldn't it be clean to begin with?
[14:23] <cgoldberg> yup true
[14:23] <cgoldberg> hmm
[14:25] <cgoldberg> thomi, strange.. i get no flake8 errors.  "flake8: commands succeeded"
[14:26] <thomi> cgoldberg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6132919/
[14:35] <thomi> pitti: or elopio - easy review: https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/autopilot/fix-warnings/+merge/186639
[14:35] <thomi> that's the trunk version of the last fix
[14:41] <elopio> iahmad: I left a comment on your textfields branch.
[14:41] <asac> mzanetti: yes its still there
[14:41] <asac> mzanetti: check with ogra.
[14:42] <elopio> thomi: I'm looking at your MP, but I don't understand it. I'll read some more code.
[14:43] <thomi> elopio: pitti acked the first one - maybe just push it to his plate :)
[14:43] <elopio> yes. I'll still try to understand what this part of the code does.
[14:45] <elopio> thomi: and one PITA detail, according to pep257, the first sentence of a docstring should be just one line.
[14:46] <thomi> elopio: I know, and we should fix that, but this MP isn't about that, and it does make it *more* compliant than it was :)
[14:48] <elopio> thomi: agree.
[14:48] <cgoldberg> thomi, ok.. i can reproduce the flake8 errors you see now..  want me to fix them in this branch, or in a future one?
[14:51] <thomi> cgoldberg: I'm happy either way
[14:51] <thomi> cgoldberg: if you'd rather do it in a separate MP let me know and I'll approve your current one now
[14:52] <cgoldberg> thomi, umm.. I'll just push them in the same branch
[14:52] <cgoldberg> so feel free to reject the MP :P
[14:53] <thomi> nah, I'll just leave it un-approved
[14:53] <thomi> makes you look better :)
[14:56] <elopio> thomi: did you get my message about bug #1225026 still open?
[14:56] <thomi> elopio: nope
[14:57] <elopio> thomi: I upgraded using the experimental ppa, and it happens the same.
[14:57] <thomi> elopio: ahh, the experimental PPA is old, and needs to be deleted, sorry
[14:57] <thomi> or actually, maybe I should just update the build recipies
[14:57] <thomi> elopio: you need trunks
[14:58] <thomi> elopio: *or* autopilot from saucy
[14:58] <pitti> thomi: re
[14:58] <elopio> thomi: ok, let me try.
[14:59] <pitti> thomi: ah, LGTM; acking
[15:28] <elopio> thomi: yes, it works now. I'll mark the bug as fixed.
[15:28] <thomi> elopio: \o/
[15:29] <pitti> cgoldberg: reviewed your branch
[15:29] <elopio> thank you thomi.
[15:29] <thomi> :)
[15:29] <elopio> om26er: that was the bug that made the webbrowser tests to fail on my machine, in case you were wondering :)
[15:30] <thomi> elopio: can you close the bug for me please?
[15:30] <elopio> thomi: I marked it as fix released. Is that ok?
[15:30] <thomi> elopio: yup, thansk
[15:31]  * elopio goes out to feel the sunshine.
[15:31] <elopio> bbs.
[15:37] <cgoldberg> thomi, fixed all flake8 issues.. *all* were in docstrings/doctests
[15:41] <thomi> heh
[15:58] <thomi> does anyone know where I can find a list of all the indicators that should appear on the phone? It seems like today's build is missing bluetooth and messaging indicators, but I'd like to be able to confirm that before filing bugs
[15:59] <thomi> iahmad: balloons ^^ ?
[16:01] <davmor2> thomi: from what I understand messaging is a bug but bluetooth is dropped apparently
[16:04] <thomi> davmor2: OK. thanks
[16:54] <thomi> cgoldberg: your docstring changes to autopilot are incorrect I'm afraid
[16:54] <thomi> cgoldberg: for example: 36	+        >>> from autopilot import press
[16:55] <thomi> cgoldberg: that's not a correct import
[17:17] <cgoldberg> thomi, ah.  i'll fix
[17:50]  * elopio going for lunch.
[18:04] <thomi> cgoldberg: did you get anywhere with this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1206805 if not, I'll look in to it now
[18:27] <cgoldberg> thomi, not yet.. was gonna look at it this afternoon.  go ahead if you want :)
[18:28] <thomi> cgoldberg: OK, I'm on it
[18:34] <cgoldberg> thomi.. for those docstrings where I botched the import.. like: from autopilot import press.  what's proper way to import "press" for example
[18:34] <thomi> cgoldberg: well, it's a method on the class
[18:34] <thomi> cgoldberg: so I guess you'd need to show the entire process of creatingthe class, like:
[18:34] <thomi> from autopilot.input import Mouse
[18:34] <thomi> m = Mouse.create()
[18:34] <thomi> m.press()
[18:35] <thomi> for example
[18:35] <cgoldberg> thomi, most of the doc doesn't use doctests anyways... I could leave them as documentation examples, and remove the ">>>" so flake8 doesn't complain.. and revert the imports I used
[18:36] <cgoldberg> unless you want fuller examples in docstrings
[18:36] <thomi> cgoldberg: Right, I think maybe the best way is to not make them docstrings, but make sure we still get syntax highlighting in the docs
[18:36] <thomi> I bet you can't run them as doctests anyway
[18:36] <rvr> Good weekend, everyone!
[18:37] <cgoldberg> yea.. i can just put them as code snippets that sphinx will like (they mostly already are.. except for the ">>>")
[18:37] <cgoldberg> ... and i hate doctests anyway :)
[18:42] <jfunk-afk> balloons, we're talking about having a lightning talk next tuesday, is "Gating process" &/OR "Unity/SDK/Apps Integration Failures (and what we should do about them)" something you think anyone wouyld be interested in attending?
[18:42] <jfunk> nm - will email
[19:00] <thomi> hmmmm
[19:00] <thomi> cgoldberg: agreed onn doctests being awful
[19:01] <thomi> so I have confirmed this bug, but I'm not sure what the desired behavior should be
[19:01] <thomi> if, in the middle of us processing an assertion the dbus backend dissapears (probably because the application is no longer running), what should we do?
[19:01] <thomi> currently we raise ann unhandled dbus exceptiion
[19:02] <thomi> we could raise a RuntimeError, but then we'd probably want to do that everywhere, which is a significant amount of finger-work
[19:02] <thomi> I'm starting to think that this might be something to delay until 1.4
[19:02] <thomi> cgoldberg: any thoughts?
[19:02] <cgoldberg> 1 sec :)
[19:12] <cgoldberg> thomi, im not sure I follow.  sounds like raising a dbus exception is the right thing, no?
[19:13] <thomi> cgoldberg: well, yes, except it's not exactly obvious to the test author what went wrong
[19:13] <thomi> I think changing it in some places only is probably worse than not changing it at all
[19:13] <thomi> better to be consistent.. for 1.3 anyway
[19:14] <cgoldberg> sounds reasonable
[19:14] <cgoldberg> thomi, btw, I re-pushed my branch.. ditched the doctests and bad imports and just made them code samples
[19:15] <cgoldberg> pitti, i also made a change on that branch so you can pass a test arg to tox.  "$ tox -- autopilot.tests.unit"
[19:15] <thomi> cgoldberg: ok, reviewing now
[19:15] <cgoldberg> and "tox" alone to run them all
[19:16] <thomi> I still think we should just run the unit tests by default, but I'll defer to pitti's better judgment
[19:16] <thomi> approving now
[19:16] <thomi> approved
[19:16] <cgoldberg> ta
[19:30] <pitti> thomi: not necessarily better, we just seem to disagree on that; but it's not a dealbreaker either way
[19:30] <thomi> pitti: yeah, it's no biggie :)
[19:30] <pitti> cgoldberg: anyway, thanks for the adjustments, it's really nice now as you can do both (or just single tests)
[19:31] <cgoldberg> np
[19:41] <elopio> om26er: I'm back. Do you still need help with the set up?
[19:41] <om26er> elopio, I'll work on that tomorrow, I am stuck in other stuff today :/
[19:41] <om26er> well Monday ofcourse
[19:42] <elopio> om26er: ok.
[19:42] <om26er> Its been a looong week.