[08:08] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:08] <Gargoyle> o/
[08:09] <brobostigon> o/
[10:58] <diddledan> m00
[16:03] <brian__> hi any experts on ufi booting?
[16:09] <diddledan> https://9to5mac.com/2017/08/31/apple-iphone-8-event-date-official-invite/
[16:11] <zmoylan-pi> well samsung have an 8 so apple must retort...
[16:25] <brian__> i have a archos 140 cesium laptop with windows 10 installed on on internal 32G ssd
[16:26] <brian__> i am trying to boot to a usb/sd card so I can use Linux ubuntu
[16:26] <brian__> can get into the bios and change the boot order to usb by disabling windows
[16:28] <brian__> but when i reboot i get a ufi scrip on the screen cannot seem to boot inro a ufi unbutu distro 14:04
[16:28] <brian__> any ideas what to do?
[16:29] <brian__> i have a usb memory with ubuntu installed
[16:29] <brian__> and on my desktop it boots ok
[17:05] <diddledan> popey: can I get you to test https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/pull/4 please?
[17:07] <diddledan> it's a superset of https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/pull/3 in that it is corebird 1.6.0 the same as that pr but I've also reduced the snap size drastically
[17:07] <diddledan> down to 12 Megger Nuts!
[17:11] <popey> Sho thang
[17:13] <diddledan> it's working for me, I've got it running right now. and I didn't break at least one video
[17:17] <diddledan> way to go spidey! https://twitter.com/SheHatesJacoby/status/903300695989698561
[18:13] <klystron> hi
[18:14] <klystron> can anyone help with a ufi booting problem?
[18:20] <popey> diddledan: https://twitter.com/popey/status/903321031535980545  :)
[18:20] <diddledan> \o/
[18:21] <klystron> anyone help re booting issue?
[18:29] <popey> klystron: probably better off asking in #ubuntu
[18:29] <popey> diddledan: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25439934/
[18:29] <popey> oh, hang on, I'm running wayland
[18:29] <popey> lemme logout/in again to x
[18:30] <diddledan> hmm. how do I add wayland support, one wonders
[18:31] <popey> -> forum
[18:31] <popey> (I dont think we have an interface yet)
[18:31] <popey> ok, logged back into x, started it and got my pin, put that in and it core dumped
[18:32] <popey> worked sewcond time
[18:32] <diddledan> hmm
[18:37] <popey> working nice and stable now though
[18:37] <popey> nice work :D
[18:39] <popey> blimey, this is faster than tweetdeck


[04:16] <qwebirc51483> hello
[04:17] <qwebirc51483> Could anyone help me with what I need to do to get my hauppauge hvr-955q with linux and mythbuntu more specific?
[15:42] <compdoc> is there a way to connect to streams of talk radio with mythtv?


[08:55] <newLubuntu> Salut
[08:56] <newLubuntu> jHello I'm new in Lubuntu. When I'm doing apt-get irssi for example It doesn't find the package. I guess I need to change my sources or something else ?
[08:57] <Myrtti> sudo apt-get install irssi?
[08:57] <Unit193> It'd be  sudo apt-get install irssi   and if it doesn't find it, then most likely it's an  sudo apt-get update you need.
[08:57] <newLubuntu> in my question I said that I'm doing apt-get install :D
[08:58] <newLubuntu> I will try apt-get update thanks
[08:58] <newLubuntu> Ah yes it's working ^^
[08:59] <pAt_> you didn't newLubuntu, read your question again ;)
[08:59] <newLubuntu> ah yes I didn't write install ^^
[09:51] <pjotr> Hello, I have a question about the merging of translations for Lubuntu Saucy.
[09:51] <pjotr> The Dutch translations for the Ubiquity slideshow of Lubuntu Saucy, aren't complete yet in today's daily build. Although I completed them some weeks ago on Launchpad.
[09:52] <pjotr> Will they be merged before the final edition of Saucy?
[09:56] <pjotr> Unit193: maybe you can shed some light on this?
[10:01] <Unit193> pjotr: There was an upload just "yesterday", you informed knome and he found the right person.  This should have fixed it for both that and Lubuntu.
[10:01] <Unit193> 10-12 doesn't have it
[10:01] <Unit193> ?
[10:02] <Unit193> Yeah, there are no builds for today, I'd check back soon when http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20131012/ fills up.
[10:05] <pjotr> Unit193: OK, thanks.... I downloaded the Lubuntu daily build an hour ago, and indeed it's the build of yesterday....
[10:06] <pjotr> I'll try today's builds of both Lubuntu and Xubuntu, as soon as they are available
[10:07] <Unit193> You'll be able to simply rsync or zsync them up, then.
[10:11] <pjotr> Another thing: I can't find the place where I can translate lxsession-default-apps
[10:11] <pjotr> It's not upstream at LXDE (where I am a translator as well), nor at Launchpad
[10:12] <pjotr> Do you know where I can translate it?
[10:14] <Unit193> Are you sure you can?
[10:15] <pjotr> Unit193: what do you mean?
[10:16] <Unit193> It's part of the lxsession source.
[10:18] <pjotr> Well, it's not translatable upstream. lxsession is fully translated into Dutch: http://pootle.lxde.org/nl/
[10:19] <pjotr> Weird that the strings for lxsession-default-apps don't show up there....
[10:19]  * Unit193 doesn't know, only knows English so translations escape him.
[10:20] <pjotr> :P
[10:20] <Unit193> (Xubuntu daily is up, Lubuntu to follow.)
[10:20] <pjotr> I gave the link just to show the 100 % status.... :-)
[10:21] <pjotr> Maybe I should contact the LXDE devs about lxsession-default-apps?
[10:21] <Unit193> I have no idea.
[10:23] <pjotr> About the daily builds: thanks. I'll try them today and will report back both here and at xubuntu-dev
[14:09] <melodie> hello
[14:09] <melodie> does someone have in mind how much space disk is required to install lubuntu saucy testing?
[14:15] <melodie> here it says how much ram but not how much disk space: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/saucy/beta-1/
[15:08] <holstein> melodie: i would want 5gb's or so, to test what im interested in testing
[15:09] <melodie> hi holstein !
[15:09] <melodie> thanks
[15:09] <holstein> melodie: what are you dealing with? space-wise?
[15:10] <melodie> would you also happen to know how long the lubuntu saucy version is meant to last?
[15:10] <holstein> melodie: AFAIK, they follow the normal support cycles.. 9 months support
[15:11] <melodie> I am partitioning to make space for lubuntu in a 37 GB hard drive where there is already a Debian, an Ubuntu Openbox Remix and all were on primary partitions (and the swap partition and one home partition... )
[15:11] <melodie> 9 months is not much
[15:11] <melodie> when will there be a LTS for Lubuntu?
[15:11] <holstein> melodie: you are always welcome to, and encouraged to support it as long as you like
[15:12] <holstein> melodie: lubuntu *is* ubuntu, though, they have not had an official LTS for a while.. i read that 14.04 lubuntu is planned to be an LTS
[15:12] <melodie> it's not as simple, if we want new versions for pcmanfm, lxpanel, or else, we would need to rely on ppa if they exist
[15:12] <holstein> melodie: you can always build what you want
[15:12] <melodie> oh oh ! 14.04 \o/
[15:13] <melodie> holstein yes, but I'm not keen on packaging and there are other things I take care of :)
[15:13] <holstein> melodie: then, a non-rolling release distro like all the ubuntu's are may not fit your needs
[15:14] <melodie> it's not for my needs, I am an archlinux user, I contribute to Ubuntu because I prefer installing ubuntu to non tech user's machines
[15:15] <melodie> well, I happen once a while to reboot to ubuntu for my needs, but seldom : only when archlinux has broken my printing abilities, and until it is fixed ;)
[15:15] <holstein> melodie: then, you know that it will meet the needs of those users.. you would install an LTS release for them
[15:15] <holstein> xubuntu 12.04 is LTS.. ubuntu 12.04 is LTS, and you can add lxde and end up with bascially lubuntu.
[15:16] <melodie> yes, but I did a mistake for two or three of them, installed the lubuntu 12.04 thinking it was an LTS, and learned later it was not
[15:16] <melodie> yes you can, however the trick is in the version for the main programs : lxappearance, pcmanfm, and so on...
[15:17] <melodie> holstein are you a developer?
[15:17] <holstein> melodie: there is no trick.. the versions, like with all ubuntu's are "frozen".. if you need a newer version, you use a PPA as you mentioned, or add what you need manually
[15:18] <melodie> yes sure :)
[15:18] <holstein> melodie: the "feature" of non-rolling releases is that the versions dont change
[15:18] <holstein> melodie: if you prefer a differnt model, that is fine, but you cant have both
[15:18] <melodie> replace "trick" by "the point is" and you get the idea I was willing to express
[15:18] <holstein> melodie: i am not a code contributor
[15:19] <melodie> earlier in the year it has been told about a rolling release ubuntu project on the dev mailing lists, I'm looking forward to see this come up
[15:19] <melodie> ok
[15:46] <melodie> I have installed htop in the Live USB Lubuntu Saucy testing and when I launch it from the menus, it only starts the lxterminal console
[15:47] <melodie> I don't understand why, I checked the htop.desktop file and it is correct
[19:24] <pjotr> Unit193: the translation of the Ubiquity slideshow in both Lubuntu and Xubuntu has been fixed in today's daily builds. I just checked it. :-)
[19:29] <Unit193> Yeppers.
[20:05] <plusEV> Hi guys, I am missing sound on Lubuntu 13.04
[20:05] <plusEV> Can anyone help with that?
[20:09] <melodie> plusEV what did you try so far?
[20:10] <plusEV> melodie: not much. configured my system but not the sound. This is a new install.
[20:12] <melodie> then what about starting to install what is missing?
[20:12] <melodie> alsa-oss if you want to use alsa, and some gstreamer codecs
[20:12] <melodie> and fluendo-mp3 ...
[20:13] <phillw> one of the easiest things to install is the lubuntu-restricted-extras package. That has a lot of the stuff we cannot ship on the default ISO
[20:13] <plusEV> I juste read on google I might be using sound through my hdmi
[20:13] <plusEV> I will try that fix first
[20:15] <phillw> I've had it reported that the 'easy' way is not working for some, so either use LSC of the command line at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
[20:21] <plusEV> will try a reboot
[20:21] <melodie> phillw hi!
[20:22] <melodie> while I'm here, how do people restart alsa when they don't use pa and need to restart the sound daemon or whatever replaces it?
[20:22] <phillw> hi melodie  I have been follwing the emails :)
[20:23] <melodie> oh great!
[20:23] <melodie> :)
[20:23] <melodie> I have started uploading some screenshots
[20:23] <melodie> for two dfi
[20:23] <thehodapp> test
[20:23] <melodie> no for three different installs yet
[20:24] <melodie> hi thehodapp what do you test?
[20:25] <phillw> melodie, I have no problems with alsa, however If you'd like to have a read through, I found this ... http://forums.bodhilinux.com/index.php?/topic/3800-solved-how-does-a-user-restart-alsa-without-rebooting/
[20:28] <melodie> ok phillw thanks
[20:30] <melodie> it must be "sudo alsa force-reload"
[20:36] <phillw> melodie, I only found a link with highly sort [SOLVED] tag, it is for you to read it :P
[20:42] <melodie> I have seen the one above command in your link and also in an "askquesionsubuntu" forum thread not so long ago in fact
[21:45] <melodie> phillw may I ask you a question?
[21:46] <melodie> I mean are you still around and a little available?
[21:47] <phillw> melodie, I'm always lurking some where.. If you do get a reply, try out the contacts at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw :)
[21:48] <melodie> aha
[21:48] <phillw> *do NOT get*
[21:48] <melodie> phillw you have pointed me to the blueprint place for the one lubuntu which is about to spread out
[21:49] <phillw> I gave you the one for zram
[21:49] <melodie> for the concern I have with zram and sysctl.conf wouldn't it be more interesting to head up to the blueprint place for 14.04 ?
[21:49] <phillw> that is why there is a blueprint :)
[21:49] <melodie> I'm not yet sure about how zram and the swappiness may interfere one with the other
[21:50] <melodie> what I know for sure is that in a quite strong machine p4 dual core 2.8 Ghz and 3 GB ram it was lagging, which should not, but it was not lagging anymore a lot after reconfiguring sysctl.conf and adding the swappiness values
[21:51] <phillw> melodie, nor do I... I'm just a tester. I'd never looked at zram before the bug arose. I knew lubuntu had used a particular config file; but that was all.
[21:51] <melodie> I am not sure how I have to use this place: is that as
[21:51] <melodie> can you help me to get started with this blueprint place ?
[21:51] <melodie> do I need to use the email as in a mailing list?
[21:53] <phillw> melodie, if you head over to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming/+spec/zram-config and sign on, you will see my comment and be able to update comments on the white board area.
[21:53] <melodie> I look immediatly
[21:54] <melodie> I see: "Whiteboard
[21:54] <melodie> Hello Melodie"
[21:54] <melodie> do I need to click to "Edit whiteboard" ?
[21:55] <phillw> yup ! So now add your findings using the edit :)
[21:55] <melodie> ok thank you
[21:55] <melodie> :)
[21:56] <melodie> now I'll install virtualbox in Lubuntu Saucy just installed and if I can get it, I'll install again, but with very little RAM available
[21:56] <phillw> I'm still a learner for that area. Our Head of Dev set it up so that people could make proposals for 14.04 and them not get lost in the fog of emails. One idea == one blueprint.
[21:56] <melodie> yes
[21:56] <melodie> I can understand that
[21:57] <melodie> I am thinking how I can tweak the zram setup from within a live, it's quite easy
[21:57] <melodie> I can do my changes and then from there just restart the zram-config service
[21:57] <melodie> but for the swappiness that would be another story, I have no idea if I can have it changed on the fly
[22:00] <melodie> here are the screenshots I've taken so far: http://meets.free.fr/Downloads/LubuntuSaucyTesting
[22:00] <phillw> melodie, the idea behind a whiteboard, is that things can be discussed; and wiped clean as the converstation goes. Only when completed can it become a blueprint :)
[22:01] <phillw> Rather than delete things, they just need marking as "tried this and it didn't work" etc. This stops people running the same tests over again :)
[22:03] <melodie> phillw yes, I can understand
[22:04] <melodie> now I can test, I have all the tools I need to test separately each item
[22:04] <melodie> the command line I was looking for is an echo 'value' to /proc/sys/vm/swappiness (as root)
[22:04] <phillw> melodie, excellent, I look forward to the comments on there :)
[22:05] <melodie> ^^
[22:06] <phillw> melodie, for that, you will have to ask the 'clever' people :)
[22:07] <melodie> I always ask the clever people when in need.
[22:08] <phillw> melodie, for zram... I'm not one of them! Nor am i for many other areas!
[22:13] <phillw> melodie, you can always accept it :D
[22:16] <melodie> phillw it's quite late here and I also had to solve an issue for the linuxvillage website management
[22:16] <melodie> http://linuxvillage.org
[22:17] <melodie> now I want to install lubuntu saucy to virtualbox into lubuntu saucy :D
[22:17] <melodie> for zram, once I wondered why it was still in the staging directory
[22:17] <phillw> melodie, I'm still on the hunt for a WP savvy person.
[22:17] <melodie> so I went to the compcache ml
[22:17] <melodie> phillw I'm your person
[22:17] <melodie> what do you need?
[22:17] <melodie> well if I'm not saavy enough I will tell you
[22:18] <melodie> come to #linuxvillage to talk about it?
[22:19] <phillw> melodie, http://ubuntugnome.org/ needs the page updating, but from what I read, it is a static home page that cannot be easily updated. I'm hoping you know other wise.
[22:21] <melodie> it's not a static page
[22:21] <melodie> it's not even configured as a home page, the website is configured as a blog, not as a content management with a static home page
[22:22] <melodie> you need to update the engine
[22:23] <phillw> which engine?
[22:23] <melodie> for this you do a copy of the whole content by ftp or by a cpanel if any, then a full backup of the database in a compressed / archived shape (in phpmyadmin you need to select the advanced mode to get to it)
[22:23] <melodie> the wordpress content management system
[22:23] <melodie> do I continue explaining?
[22:24] <phillw> melodie, would you /j #ubuntu-gnome it is that team who need the help.
[22:24] <melodie> then you do a full backup from within the admin board to get a xml file
[22:24] <melodie> the team is welcome at #linuxvillage
[22:24] <melodie> I'm not going to spread now
[22:24] <melodie> or you can point to hte codex and forums for them
[22:25] <phillw> okies, I'll just hope their admin for the WP gets well soon, I've done as much as I can and whilst being an admin I have no experience of WP :(
[22:26] <melodie> believe me: all it takes is backup everything, then there are mainly three files to keep : that's to say one directory and two files
[22:27] <melodie> you keep the wp-content, the .htaccess and the wp-config.php
[22:27] <melodie> once all is backed up you will remove all the rest in the remote website
[22:27] <melodie> and once done you upload the new content:
[22:27] <melodie> don't mistake, be inside the wordpress directory before starting the upload
[22:28] <melodie> because you must replace the wp-admin and the wp-includes and re-upload the other files
[22:28] <melodie> before removing you can de activate all plugins
[22:28] <melodie> you will re activate them once the job done
[22:29] <phillw> melodie, I've contacted the TL for ubuntu-gnome. That is as much as I can do.
[22:29] <melodie> there is one trick I use:
[22:29] <melodie> in the wordpress directory content which I will upload
[22:29] <melodie> I always remove the readme and in the wp-admin the install.php
[22:30] <melodie> TL ? who is TL ?
[22:30] <melodie> team leader?
[22:33] <phillw> melodie, I do not even know where the area is hosted. Remember one thing.... I'm a tester, not a dev :D darkxst  is the TL (Team Leader) and is currently AFK (Away From Keyboard)
[22:34] <melodie> phillw
[22:34] <melodie> $ ping ubuntugnome.org
[22:34] <melodie> 64 bytes from citrusnobilis.canonical.com (<IP_ADDRESS>)
[22:35] <melodie> you have part of the answer
[22:35] <melodie> now a "whois <IP_ADDRESS>" should tell you the rest
[22:37] <phillw> melodie, if it is part of canonical.com then it is set up by the IS people, your suggestion would need a support ticket raising. So, I'll leave the answer to darkxst to follow up. All I agreed to do was to try and update http://ubuntugnome.org/ :D
[22:38] <melodie> do you have the ftp access?
[22:38] <melodie> and the access to the admin board?
[22:39] <melodie> you need both to do a good job
[22:39] <phillw> not to canonical.com :)
[22:41] <phillw> melodie, this is what I see in the AP http://imagebin.org/273534
[22:44] <melodie> ok, first go to the menu "Tools" on the left
[22:44] <melodie> and do an export
[22:45] <phillw> done
[22:45] <melodie> full export, authors pages posts..
[22:45] <melodie> ok
[22:45] <melodie> keep it aside in a special "BackupUbuntuGnome" directory
[22:45] <phillw> I selected Choose what to export
[22:45] <phillw>  All content
[22:45] <melodie> after that don't deactivate the plugins at once
[22:45] <melodie> yes, this is right
[22:45] <melodie> after that don't deactivate the plugins at once
[22:46] <melodie> but start the ftp client and login to the website by ftp
[22:46] <phillw> give me 5 mins...
[22:46] <melodie> you need to have the access to the files
[22:46] <phillw> i need a nicotine enhancement :)
[22:46] <melodie> arrrrght
[22:46] <melodie> berk, bad for your happiness!
[22:50] <phillw> melodie, start what ftp client?
[22:52] <melodie> do you have one installed? If not what about Filezilla?
[22:52] <melodie> do you have the identifiers for the connexion?
[22:53] <melodie> you need a login and a password to access with the ftp protocol
[22:53] <melodie> and the adress of the ftp of course
[22:53] <phillw> melodie, funny you should say that, just installing it. Do remember that I'm running a clean install of 13.10 on my hardware and have not yet installed all the tools that I usually have :)
[22:54] <phillw> melodie, so, login and password for the site, please?
[22:55] <melodie> how would I know?
[22:55] <melodie> this is a secret hold only by the administrator
[22:56] <phillw> makes two of us... and I doubt canonical are going to give it me!
[22:57] <melodie> ask the one who asked you to take care of the update
[22:57] <melodie> you see, you have part of the backup only
[22:57] <melodie> if you happen to update the website from within the admin board and screws it, you will have no mean to restore it
[22:58] <phillw> So, from what you say; it is not possible for any admin to update the page at http://ubuntugnome.org/ which is rather odd, as Ali managed to do it.
[22:58] <melodie> this is not an update
[22:58] <melodie> this is an edition
[22:58] <melodie> yes, you can edit
[22:58] <melodie> go to :
[22:58] <melodie> Posts
[22:58] <melodie> and look for the post you want to change
[22:59] <melodie> tell the people administrating this website that it needs to be updated!
[22:59] <melodie> the version is 3.5.2 and the latest available is 3.6.x
[23:03] <phillw> melodie, and, you, are a star! http://ubuntugnome.org/ (please proof read it! )
[23:05] <melodie> so you have been able to edit the post?
[23:07] <phillw> have a look :D
[23:07] <melodie> I have, but I had not read formerly, just looked vaguely at the page
[23:08] <melodie> what about a wordpress of your's to put the hand in it?
[23:08] <melodie> http://phillw.wordpress.com is waiting for you!
[23:10] <phillw> melodie, I have http://phillw.net/ I do not blog, and still have my legacy forum area. I've enough to keep up with everyone else!
[23:13] <melodie> http://phillw.net/isos/
[23:13] <melodie> humm
[23:17] <melodie> I have not added a new post since some time on my wordpress blog: http://meylodie.wordpress.com/
[23:58] <melodie> testing lubuntu saucy zsynced tonight in a vbox in lubuntu testing installed just before,
[23:59] <melodie> I could not even do a simple apt-get update with the vbox setup with 256 mb ram
[23:59] <melodie> it got stucked
[23:59] <melodie> I have rebooted with 386 Mb ram and now installed htop inside


[21:20] <janot> Hi, everybody. I have a problem with very long/endless logout/restart in Ubuntu. This happens not every time, but maybe every 1 of 4 logouts/restarts...Should I file a bug report or ask at Askubuntu?
[21:20] <wxl> janot: sounds to me like a support issue. have you tried asking at #ubuntu?
[21:21] <janot> wxl: yep, 10 minutes ago - nobody answered
[21:22] <wxl> janot: yeah, sometimes it takes a while. you can also try askubuntu, the ubuntu forums, mailing lists, etc. etc. etc.
[21:22] <janot> wxl: at least I shouldn't file it as bug report, yes?
[21:23] <wxl> janot: it doesn't sound like a bug report to me.
[21:23] <janot> wxl: ok, thx


[01:36] <Joe__> Is anyone there?
[01:37] <Joe__> I wanted to inquire about Lubuntu's software repository?
[01:38] <wxl> yes, Joe__ ?
[12:03] <linuxfreezesonla> Hello. Which kernel ships with Lubuntu 17.10?


[00:47] <callmepk> good morning
[06:27] <duflu> Hi/bye/hi jibel
[06:32] <callmepk> hi duflu jibel
[06:32] <duflu> Hi callmepk
[06:37] <jibel> hi duflu callmepk
[07:32] <marcustomlinson> morning callmepk duflu and jibel
[07:32] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
[07:51] <jibel> hi marcustomlinson
[08:11] <didrocks> good morning
[08:12] <marcustomlinson> hy didrocks
[08:15] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
[08:17] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[08:18] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[08:25] <didrocks> hey duflu, jibel
[08:30] <seb128> goood morning desktoppers
[08:30] <marcustomlinson> hi seb128
[08:31] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:48] <duflu> Hi seb128
[08:49] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson, didrocks , duflu , how are you?
[08:49] <marcustomlinson> seb128: doing ok thanks, you?
[08:49] <seb128> I'm alright!
[08:50] <duflu> seb128, I could say I'm tired but there's basically only an hour left in the day. How are you?
[08:50] <duflu> Oh you're alright
[08:50] <seb128> :-)
[08:51] <seb128> a bit tired but nothing unusual
[08:53] <didrocks> seb128: fine, short night though with the baby crying until 2am
[08:54] <seb128> :-(
[09:12] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[09:13] <marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN
[09:13] <oSoMoN> hey marcustomlinson
[09:13] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[09:13] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[09:17] <seb128> hey oSoMoN, how are you?
[09:19] <ricotz> good morning desktopers!
[09:19] <ricotz> marcustomlinson, hi, did you meant to direct the libreoffice mail to me?
[09:20] <marcustomlinson> ricotz: yes, the changelog needs to include a reference to bug #1904478
[09:21] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, I'm not too bad, although I wish the week-end had one more day :) how are you yourself?
[09:21] <ricotz> marcustomlinson, heather prepared that package and wanted to add the bug reference afair?
[09:21] <oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
[09:21] <marcustomlinson> ricotz: ok, I shall wait for her response then
[09:23] <ricotz> marcustomlinson, I guess I can update the package and git branch to include the sru bug reference, but I assumed heather wants to take care of that
[09:23] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hey
[09:25] <marcustomlinson> ricotz: up to you. sorry I don't know who was driving that
[09:26] <seb128> oSoMoN, I'm fine, happy that the weekend wasn't longer, it was fun but busy and I enjoy being back to my computer and have some quiet time now ;-)
[09:27] <oSoMoN> seb128, same here, it was busy and being back at the keyboard feels like rest :)
[09:28] <oSoMoN> but I didn't manage to do all I wanted to do, hence the need for one more day
[09:33] <seb128> right
[09:35] <bittin> Any reason there has been no 21.04 daily builds for a couple of days?
[09:56] <seb128> bittin, hey, I'm unsure, could be a side effect of the recent datacenter move, I've asked on #ubuntu-release if they have some clue
[10:00] <seb128> k, apparently it's waiting on arm64 to catch up
[10:36] <bittin> the Sunday image was stalling but both are uploaded now
[15:59] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[16:00] <ItzSwirlz> o/
[16:00] <kenvandine> hey hellsworth
[16:01] <hellsworth> hey kenvandine !
[16:01] <hellsworth> and ItzSwirlz :)
[16:01] <ItzSwirlz> heyo
[16:01] <ItzSwirlz> coocoo, school sucks -_-
[16:02] <hellsworth> no no school's great :)
[17:07] <ricotz> hellsworth, hi :)
[17:08] <hellsworth> hey there ricotz
[17:08] <ricotz> hellsworth, are you going to address the issues with the libreoffice changelog?
[17:12] <hellsworth> ah yes thank you for the reminder. would you like me to just add the sru bug number to the most recent commit?
[17:12] <hellsworth> or what issues exactly are you referring to
[17:12] <hellsworth> ricotz: ^
[17:13] <ricotz> hellsworth, I can add the sru bug number, I am referring to the email Marcus sent in response to Łukasz
[17:14] <hellsworth> ah ok.. looking at email then
[17:15] <hellsworth> yep let em respond on the thread. thanks ricotz
[17:18] <ricotz> hellsworth, I have tweaked the changelog and pushed it
[17:18] <ricotz> hellsworth, thank you
[17:30] <hellsworth> ricotz: thanks so much. i have debuild running now with your changes.
[17:34] <ricotz> hellsworth, note that you can do a partial upload, so you don't have to include all sources
[17:35] <ricotz> hirsute includes the 7.0.3 source already now
[17:35] <hellsworth> ok can you tell me how to do a partial upload? i didn't know that was a thing :)
[17:37] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, pass "-sd" to debuild
[17:40] <hellsworth> oh yes i did know about that and didn't do it. but now i have :) thanks ricotz
[19:32] <ricotz> hellsworth, marcustomlinson, please see my email response
[19:39] <ricotz> hellsworth, note you can cancel and restart builds on launchpad without repacking or copying to the new ppa
[19:40] <hellsworth> please tell me how to restart a build.. it is not obvious at all how to do that
[19:40] <ricotz> hellsworth, same page where you cancel it
[19:40] <hellsworth> oh wait if the ppa was already setup for whtaever archs then yes
[19:40] <hellsworth> (i was thinking of the prev dummy repo where i went and added archs and wanted to launch builds for them all and couldn't)
[19:41] <hellsworth> but yes cancel/retry.. doing that now
[19:41] <hellsworth> well the cancel
[19:41] <hellsworth> you know what i mean i hope
[19:41] <ricotz> and you can enable archs afterwards, and copy the source package into the same ppa
[19:41] <ricotz> to trigger missing archs
[19:42] <ricotz> hellsworth, if a build failed or was canceled, you will be provide a retry option
[19:42] <hellsworth> yep you're right
[19:43] <hellsworth> oh really? you just initiate a copy of the src packages from the ppa to itself and it initiates a rebuild of all enabled archs?
[19:43] <hellsworth> that's pretty handy to know
[19:43] <hellsworth> thank you
[19:43] <ricotz> and I don't see the point of having a arm* rebuild which will take 20hours+ which needs to wait 10hours+ to even start currently
[19:43] <hellsworth> i hear you
[19:44] <hellsworth> seems superfluous to me too..
[19:45] <marcustomlinson> ricotz: please don’t give me packages that are not fit for SRU
[19:46] <ricotz> marcustomlinson, I mentioned to the identical built source package in the libreoffice prerelease ppa which passed the autopkgtest
[19:48] <ricotz> the source diff https://paste.debian.net/plain/1174036
[19:49] <ricotz> sorry if this wasn't clear before, I can see that pointing to an uploaded ppa package which isn't built
[19:49] <ricotz> this is simply a convenient way for Heather to provide the source package
[19:50] <hellsworth> I'll just start an email to Łukasz and just copy you two.. I'm sure he'll understand and clarify if we should do things differently.. I mean we all have a shared goal afterall
[19:51] <hellsworth> sorry marcustomlinson if you feel caught in the middle because you have the upload rights
[19:51] <ricotz> thanks
[19:52] <seb128> xnox, hey, is https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H73QT4XK7P/ making sense to you?
[19:53] <seb128> xnox, or would you prefer the caller to do the realpath thing?
[19:54] <seb128> xnox, currently doing 'teardown_mountpoint chroot' just does nothing because the mounts point to the real dir and not the chroot symlink
[20:29] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center signed tags 0e94ef8 Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/1%3.38.2-1ubuntu1 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:3.38.2-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/yzPc
[20:29] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master df601c3 Sebastien Bacher * pushed 29 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3Mnuy
[20:29] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master f248e73 Robert Ancell panels/applications/cc-applications-panel.c * applications: Fix NULL hash table being unreffed. * https://deb.li/I6Kd
[20:29] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master caefbf8 Philip Withnall panels/wacom/calibrator/calibrator-gui.c * wacom: Fix a critical warning if loading a cursor fails * https://deb.li/3mraV
[20:30] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 57f7989 Robert Ancell panels/printers/ pp-details-dialog.c pp-utils.c pp-utils.h * printers: Fix leak of printer name in callbacks. * https://deb.li/3UQJ1
[20:30] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 1d0038e Robert Ancell .gitlab-ci.yml * ci: Correctly update the submodules on build. * https://deb.li/i7zpN
[20:30] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master e384130 Ian Douglas Scott panels/keyboard/cc-keyboard-shortcut-editor.ui * keyboard: fix gtk_widget_get_can_default assertion error * https://deb.li/4Ejx


[06:41] <theShirbiny> Morning everyone :D
[08:37] <elacheche> Morning africa
[10:23] <elacheche> theShirbiny: Do you have any recommanded & updated LPIC 101+102 preparation ressources? :D
[10:56] <theShirbiny> elacheche, note really, link to the exam objectives?
[10:59] <elacheche> http://www.lpi.org/our-certifications/exam-101-objectives
[10:59] <elacheche> http://www.lpi.org/our-certifications/exam-102-objectives
[11:02] <theShirbiny> the first one sounds a lot like rhcsa
[11:02] <theShirbiny> if you managed to install arch or gentoo you'll do fine
[11:14] <elacheche> Yeah, except it's a MCQ test x) not practicle one x)
[11:14] <theShirbiny> really? first time i heard of it
[11:15] <elacheche> for RHCSA you can read the docs inside the machine and mans x) in LPIC you should read you memory x)
[11:15] <elacheche> Not sure, if I'm using it right, MCQ == Multiple Choice questionnary
[11:15] <theShirbiny> yup, man is your friend in rh exams
[11:16] <theShirbiny> questions*
[11:16] <elacheche> yep x)
[11:16] <elacheche> I find this on github https://jadi.gitbooks.io/lpic1/content/1011_determine_and_configure_hardware_settings.html
[11:17] <theShirbiny> anything now to you?
[11:18] <elacheche> I don't get the question
[11:18] <theShirbiny> new*
[11:19] <elacheche> Some details, also RPM things, I'm used to debs and apt x(
[11:19] <elacheche> Some subjects I did before, but not that much to know them by heart
[11:23] <theShirbiny> elacheche,  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Pacman/Rosetta&redirect=no
[11:25] <elacheche> I should check this https://wiki.centos.org/PackageManagement/ x)
[11:35] <theShirbiny> elacheche, you don't really have much to learn, I think you already know 90% of this
[12:26] <elacheche> I hope that I'll pass then x)


[00:31] <darkxst> How would we go about getting Ubuntu GNOME added to the iso-tracker?
[00:44] <phillw> darkxst: Is it not on the daily builds?
[00:44]  * phillw goes looks
[00:45] <phillw> darkxst: you're right, it is not there.
[00:47] <phillw> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/daily-live/current/ has them,
[00:48] <phillw> darkxst: I'm not too sure what the -gnome team has arranged for iso-tracker, I do recall them saying that they wanted a beta 2 out.
[00:48] <darkxst> phillw, yes but how do we get testcases listed on the iso-tracker?
[00:48] <darkxst> we haven't arranged anything, thats why I am asking :)
[00:49] <phillw> darkxst: the best guy to chat to would be stgraber
[00:49] <darkxst> ok, thanks
[00:49] <phillw> to have it listed, balloons can help with getting test cases allocated to it once it is on the iso tracker
[00:50] <balloons> indeed
[00:50] <phillw> balloons: is it stgraber who needs to list it on the iso tracker?
[00:50] <balloons> involving him and the release team is best
[00:52] <phillw> balloons: while you are briefly here, can you remove the "" from the start of the topic on -quality and the " from the end, the latter is causing a fail on URL :)
[00:52] <balloons> I saw that
[12:48]  * cjwatson fixes the excessive livefs build attempts on inappropriate architectures that caused a few build failure mails
[13:10] <infinity> Alright, so.  udev/systemd have been violently jammed into raring.  For better or worse.
[13:35] <cjwatson> Ubuntu GNOME builds cronned, starting at 15:32 UTC daily


  I see we are not going to progress here. So how about leaving, and returning, say, n a few days?
[22:10] <Joseph12121> i tired to talk to talk to him in pm. when he realized he was wrong he got real quiet and stopped responding lol
[22:10] <Joseph12121> what a douche
[22:10] <dax> I think there may be some miscommunication here.  Assuming that you're including yourself in "people", please part the channel and come back if your opinion on that ever changes.
[22:12] <Joseph12121> in a tech support help channel being right should matter lol
[22:12] <Joseph12121> being right is kind of important
[22:12] <Joseph12121> lol
[22:12] <dax> #ubuntu-ops isn't a tech support help channel
[22:12] <dax> it's a channel that you're sitting in because your behavior is unacceptable
[22:13] <Joseph12121> i was talking about #ubuntu dummy
[22:13] <dax> > it's a channel that you're sitting in because your behavior is unacceptable
[22:13] <wxl> yeesh
[22:13] <dax> @mark Joseph12121 further problematic behavior, user states they will not behave in #ubuntu. i have also reviewed this ban, and agree with it being kept (I think that makes 3 or 4 people now)
[22:14] <hggdh> @comment 73372 unable to understand the difference between his behaviour and his rightness
[22:15] <hggdh> haunted: what can we do for you?
[22:17] <dax> @mark #ubuntu-ops haunted joined at same time as Joseph12121, said nothing, left when addressed
[22:26] <elky> who is this haunted person?
[22:26] <dax> good question!
[22:32] <Unit193> Was in -irc, so guessing onlooker of some type.
[22:32] <elky> appeared yesterday in my logs. they are in places that the joseph person is not


[00:00] <almoxarife> :)
[00:02] <Schrodinger`Cat> hey
[00:02] <Schrodinger`Cat> i have a problem
[00:02] <Schrodinger`Cat> for to do working skype, i remove pulseaudio
[00:03] <Schrodinger`Cat> is that bad ?
[00:03] <Schrodinger`Cat> now i dont have sound except with skype :/
[00:05] <cynical> well that's bad :P
[00:07] <cynical> with skype if you can change the audio settings to use the alsa plugin instead of straight pulseaudio that may fix it
[00:07] <Schrodinger`Cat> cynical: so i must put it back ?
[00:07] <Schrodinger`Cat> the pulseaudio
[00:07] <Schrodinger`Cat> i made $ apt-get remove pulseaudio
[00:07] <cynical> well you could use alsa for everything instead, but you would lose the benefits of pulseaudio. Imo it's better to see if you can get skype working well with pulse instead
[00:08] <Schrodinger`Cat> $ apt-get install pulseausio -> its ok ?
[00:08] <cynical> yes
[00:08] <Schrodinger`Cat> ill try :)
[00:08] <Geowany> my pulseaudio is working so fine
[00:08] <Schrodinger`Cat> tanks
[00:08] <Schrodinger`Cat> thanks
[04:09] <LostMonk> anyone awake?
[04:09] <DarthFrog> ZZZZZzzzzzz
[04:20] <LostMonk> lol
[04:20] <LostMonk> is there a way to deactivate the wallet so it stops popping up to ask me to make an account?
[04:21] <jdrs> LostMonk: press alt+f2, type: wallet
[04:21] <LostMonk> ty
[04:21] <LostMonk> aha
[04:21] <LostMonk> a configuration thing
[04:21] <LostMonk> sweeet
[04:21] <jdrs> LostMonk: it will open up KDE Wallet, then uncheck the 'Enable the KDE wallet subsystem'
[04:22] <LostMonk> i feel stupid now
[04:22] <LostMonk> lol
[04:22] <jdrs> anyone having issue with identify? nickserv doesn't exist
[04:22] <LostMonk> 18 hour days leave much brian power to be deisre
[04:22] <LostMonk> d
[04:42] <zed_> hi I am using kubuntu 12.04 on this laptop and >I am having problems with the wireless
[04:42] <zed_> there is no network manager app on the taskbar, and I can't find it in the menus
[04:58] <ilias> hi all. please help to movw down the task in my 12.04 newly install
[05:18] <ilias> someone could help me plz!
[05:18] <DarthFrog> !ask | ilias
[05:18] <DarthFrog> !patience | ilias
[05:21] <ilias> while i am trying to setup my desktop to a newly 12.04 installed everything was lost (only a white screen is right now my desktop) and the task bar with the time and the logout sign on the upper place of my screen. how can i restore my desktop?
[05:22] <DarthFrog> How did you manage that?
[05:24] <ilias> i installed 12.04 to my netbook and i tried to changed the layout to default desktop. i tried to addd some wizard and move the tasbar down. finally my screen got white.i think the desktop was deleted by mistake. logout/restart doesn't fix ti.
[05:25] <ilias> tool box icon also gone.
[05:30] <ilias> while the systme loadin after a logout i can see my desktop behind this white "curtain". i think a widget must be open and hide the desktop. is there any way to see behind it?
[06:04] <xkill> sounds like you enabled the desktop curtain in system settings
[06:05] <xkill> desktop effects i think is the one you are looking for. not on kde at the moment though
[06:12] <avihay> maybe you ran out of room in your root folder? my screen was white with a few red "X"s because of that when I logged in
[06:56] <eak> hey guys, can anyone help me coz i can't connect to my hidden wifi
[06:56] <nardusg> what it the problem
[06:58] <eak> ok i am able to connect to a wifi connection which is not hidden, but when i try to "connect to hidden connection" it just freezes
[06:59] <eak> i have read articles about it, and it seems to be a bug issue for the network manager for kubuntu. Is this issue still not solved?
[07:00] <nardusg> version of kubuntu
[07:00] <nardusg> ?
[07:01] <eak> the latest version, just installed it 2 days ago
[07:03] <nardusg> 12.04 or are you on 12.10 beta1
[07:03] <eak> sorry 12.04
[07:04] <nardusg> o ok, i am on 12.10, can't help
[07:04] <nardusg> you did do updates ?
[07:04] <eak> :( no problem, thanks tough
[07:04] <nardusg> ;)
[07:41] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:04] <LostMonk> well
[08:04] <LostMonk> spotify works on 12.10
[08:04] <LostMonk> :-D
[08:04] <lordievader> LostMonk: As it does on 12.04 too..
[08:05] <LostMonk> right
[08:05] <LostMonk> but, just thought itd be good to know it works on the beta just fine
[08:06] <lordievader> I suppose :p
[08:06] <lordievader> :p= :)
[08:06] <LostMonk> now if only I could find a np script for spotify
[08:06] <LostMonk> LOL
[08:07] <LostMonk> or find the original sysinfo script that knoversation uses
[08:58] <Xanthia> hello, sorry for my english, im looking for working editor for windwos decorations, i have aurorae designer, but it crash when i try to open any theme...
[09:00] <przemek> Hello :) i want upgrade my kubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 without new installation is it possible?
[09:00] <przemek> i know 12.10 is still beta
[09:01] <Xanthia> przemek: nie baw się w to, zostaw sobie home i instaluj na czysto ^^
[09:01] <przemek> Xanthia: dzieki za odpowiedz serdecznie pozdrawiam
[09:01] <Xanthia> przemek: nie ma za co ;)
[09:05] <Hydroxide> Hi. On Kubuntu LTS precise, what's the right keyboard layout to select in System Settings for a Lenovo Thinkpad X220?
[09:06] <Hydroxide> (US keyboard layout)
[09:16] <lordievader> Hydroxide: Try a few out, i'd say. But it is probably somewhere along the lines of us/international.
[09:32] <Hydroxide> lordievader: it wouldn't be one of the thinkpad settings?
[09:33] <Hydroxide> lordievader: none of them list any of the X models specifically
[09:33] <Hydroxide> lordievader: right now I'm using the default generic US one
[09:33] <lordievader> Hydroxide: Do all the keys work with that setup?
[09:34] <Hydroxide> lordievader: haven't checked every single one, so I dunno
[09:34] <lordievader> Hydroxide: My laptop also uses the same one.
[09:35] <Hydroxide> lordievader: if the answer is "just test the keys", I can do testing. I was hoping someone would know how to pick the right existing layout. KDE doesn't automagically detect which layout to use
[09:35] <Hydroxide> I mean, the generic ones usually work, but it's always nice to map the special keys to the right keysyms to get the right functionality by default
[09:36] <lordievader> Hydroxide: Agreed.
[09:41] <Hydroxide> lordievader: apparently some underlying magic is doing most of the mappings on my computer... I just stared at some of them via xev
[09:41] <Hydroxide> and broke my wireless in the process until I logged out and back in, but ok :)
[09:42] <Hydroxide> (one of they keys is wifi-reltaed)
[09:42] <Hydroxide> thanks for the help
[09:55] <Kira-T> Is it possible to keep a widget above all windows?
[10:44] <AceKing> I installed Kubuntu 12.04 onto an HP Pavillion DV-5500 laptop, and it keeps freeszing. I think it's the graphics card that's causing it, which is a Nvidia GeForce Go 7150M. Anyone have any ideas on getting this to work?
[11:24] <AceKing> Sorry for the repost, I'm hoping someone that just came in can help me.. I installed 12.04 onto a HP Pavillion DV-5500 laptop, and it keeps freezing. I think it's the graphics card that's causing it, which is a Nvidia GeForce Go 7150M. Anyone have any ideas on getting this to work? By the way, I have to do everything from the root prompt in recovery.
[11:28] <steve723> Helllo
[11:30] <steve723> I need to upgrade kubuntu. Should I choose 32 bit or 64 bit
[11:31] <lordievader> steve723: Depends, how much ram do you have?
[11:32] <steve723> I have ASUS EEE PC model 301
[11:34] <steve723> I do not know how much RAM i haave
[11:35] <lordievader> steve723: Can a triple E pc even have more that 3GB ram? Well anyhow I'd say stick with 32-bit. Your cpu does support 64-bit but you won't really notice the difference.
[11:35] <steve723> ok thanks
[11:40] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:41] <lordievader> Hey BluesKaj, how are you?
[11:41] <BluesKaj> hi lordievader , I'm fine thanks , and you?
[11:44] <lordievader> BluesKaj: I'm doing good too :)
[11:53] <rvb_> hello, is it possible to emulate a printer in linux?
[11:53] <AceKing> I just tried reinstalling 12.04 to see if there was a glitch in the first install. When I go start into LiveCD, my screen is split into 3 sections and I can't read it. I know it's the video card which is a Nvidia GeForce Go 7150m. Any ideas how I can make this work?
[11:53] <rvb_> like for example i dont have an HP printer here, but using the emulator i can "print" using the said printer
[11:59] <BluesKaj> AceKing, the nvidia card should work fine , are you sure the livecd isn't corrupted. If so do an md5sum on the iso file , or choose the alternate install version
[12:03] <c0nn> where is the panel configuration file please?
[12:03] <BluesKaj> biab ...gotta reboot
[12:07] <c0nn> I am trying customize the KDE panel for all users , Such as changing "K" icon adding wideget etc
[12:07] <AceKing> BluesKaj: I just downloaded it again, and going to try
[12:11] <AceKing> BluesKaj: Still doing the same thing. It splits the screen in 3, and I can't see anything. If I F6 and check nomodeset I can start into LiveCD. That is how I did the install before. But once it installed, it froze whenever I logged in.
[12:17] <AceKing> BluesKaj: What else could be causing that?
[12:55] <BluesKaj> !alternate | AceKing
[12:58] <AceKing> BluesKaj: OK, thanks. I also did an edit in the grub menu, and changed quiet splash to nomodeset and I was able to boot up into the desktop with everything working perfect. Will that remain that way, or will I have to set that everytime?
[13:03] <ADmad> howdy, anybody around who can update content on http://www.kubuntu.org/ ?
[13:05] <BluesKaj> AceKing, your edits should stick , at least until the next grub or kernsl upgrade
[13:06] <BluesKaj> kernel
[13:07] <tsimpson> ADmad: what exactly needs updating?
[13:07] <AceKing> BluesKaj: OK.. I ran additional drivers, and seen the Nvidia drivers available. If I activate it, would it just do the same thing that was happening before?
[13:08] <ADmad> tsimpson: its pretty trivial, on http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-plasma-workspaces-applications-and-platform-491 the url to "KDE SC 4.9.1" has an extra "  at the end
[13:08] <BluesKaj> AceKing, it shouldn't
[13:08] <AceKing> BluesKaj: I appreciate your help!
[13:08] <BluesKaj> AceKing, heh, seems you helped yourself :)
[13:09] <tsimpson> ADmad: I'll poke someone about fixing it, thanks
[13:09] <ADmad> thx
[13:11] <BluesKaj> AceKing, I didn't realize you were talking about an existing OS install , for some reason I thought you were trying to install with the live cd. hence my suggestion about the alternate
[13:11] <AceKing> BluesKaj: Just to let you know, I installed the latest Nvidia driver, restarted, and it works perfect!
[13:12] <BluesKaj> AceKing, good to hear :)
[13:17] <Roey> hey there BluesKaj
[13:17] <BluesKaj> hi Roey
[13:27] <baxeico> hi guys, just to ask if bug 306260 - KWin freezes when navigating between windows is fixed in Kubuntu's KDE SC 4.9.1 packages (12.04 backports)
[13:29] <tsimpson> baxeico: it says it'll be fixed in 4.9.2
[13:30] <tsimpson> I'll see if we have a patch though
[13:30] <baxeico> tsimpson: yes, in KDE SC 4.9.2. But here http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2012/09/this-week-in-kwin-2012-week-36/ mgrasslin says that he solved the bug very quickly after 4.9.1 release
[13:31] <baxeico> and packagers should have patched it.
[13:31] <baxeico> ok, thank you
[13:36] <tsimpson> baxeico: looks like we do have that patch, yes
[13:37] <baxeico> out of curiosity, where I can found patches applied by Kubuntu packagers to a vanilla KDE SC?
[13:40] <tsimpson> baxeico: we use Launchpad code hosting for the packaging, kwin is part of kde-workspace so https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-workspace the active development link is the current one, and that points to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/kde-workspace/quantal
[13:41] <baxeico> tsimpson: thank you very much!
[13:41] <tsimpson> though it's not just our patches there, Debian also
[14:17] <Sentynel> hi folks, looks like there's a minor packaging error with today's 12.04 kubuntu-backports kde update - the kopete package refuses to install due to a conflict with kopete-gcall over /usr/bin/googletalk-call
[14:17] <Sentynel> removing the kopete-gcall package seems to fix things
[14:22] <BluesKaj> Sentynel, perhaps a word in kubuntu-devel will help
[14:23] <Sentynel> BluesKaj: alrighty
[16:47] <niggauser> Hey guys. I can't connect to my Wifi. I'm getting "Waiting for authorization", then it fails. Help please.
[17:43] <mchoaib> I have Kubuntu 12.10b1 installed and my Computer have an Nvidia 6200 video card (not onboard). I tried to install video drivers and always gave me the "activated but not in use". Anyone knows how to solve it? Sorry if not this way to ask...
[18:01] <Peace-> mchoaib: maybe you have to reboot
[18:01] <mchoaib> Thanks for the help, Peace.
[18:02] <mchoaib>  But I reboot billions of times, and stil lthe same
[18:02] <mchoaib> I tried drivers from other repositories, and still the same
[19:05] <Hofman> Hello!
[19:06] <Hofman> could you help me with 'Neon Update'
[19:06] <Hofman> ?
[19:08] <Hofman> It disappeared from 'Start' menu after my attempt of upgrading KDE
[19:09] <Hofman> Is there anyone?
[19:12] <Hofman> Where may I ask for help?
[19:26] <DarthFrog> I note that KDE 4.9.1 is now available.
[19:27] <DarthFrog> Hofman: Neon?  Or Muon?
[19:28] <Hofman> DarthFrog: if Iremember correctly Neon Updater
[19:28] <DarthFrog> At a guess, perhaps it was replaced by a different package manager.
[19:29] <DarthFrog> Hofman: try this.  Press Alt-F2 and type "muon".
[19:30] <theadmin> Hi. I'm having trouble with ALSA (no Pulse), specifically, ALSA doesn't react to unplugging headphones, and I only get sound in those
[19:30] <Hofman> DarthFrog: nothing happens
[19:31] <DarthFrog> Hofman:  Open up a command terminal and type (all on one line): sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install muon
[19:34] <Hofman> DarthFrog: yes, it installed!
[19:34] <DarthFrog> Hofman: Now you should have a package manager available in the K Menu.
[19:34] <DarthFrog> Is it what you were thinking as neon?
[19:34] <Hofman> DarthFrog: yes, I have
[19:35] <Hofman> DarthFrog: yes
[19:35] <DarthFrog> I thought so. :-)
[19:36] <DarthFrog> Hofman:  Now go forth, do good, fight evil and enjoy ice cream.
[19:36] <Hofman> DarthFrog: I tryed to upgade my KDE-packages and during that muon disappeared
[19:37] <Hofman> DarthFrog: now I'll try once more
[19:37] <DarthFrog> Well, I'm updating KDE right now (to 4.9.1).  I'll see if that happens to me.  Not that I care, mind you. :-)
[19:38] <DarthFrog> Nope, muon is still installed. :-)
[19:39] <Hofman> DarthFrog: the screen became dark (only mouse trigger and skype pop-ups was on it)
[19:41] <Hofman> and where is official Kubuntu support? is it on Kubuntu forums?
[19:41] <DarthFrog> Official support is from Canonical and will cost you.
[19:41] <Hofman> and community support?
[19:42] <DarthFrog> Mind you, Canonical is downgrading their interest in Kubuntu and off-loading support onto the community.
[19:42] <DarthFrog> Well, here is one place.  There will be forums, also.
[19:42] <DarthFrog> !support
[19:45] <Hofman> Canonical doesn't like KDE?
[19:45] <DarthFrog> That's not the issue.
[19:46] <DarthFrog> It's devoting it's resources to Ubuntu.
[19:47] <DarthFrog> its resources, sorry, not it's resources.
[19:47] <Hofman> but I thought that it's the same (the only difference is in default DE)
[19:48] <DarthFrog> Correct.
[19:49] <DarthFrog> It's just that you can no longer get paid, official support from Canonical (or CDs) for it.
[19:49] <DarthFrog> Ubuntu, Unity, Project Ayatana is where the resources are allocated.
[19:50] <DarthFrog> Kubuntu enjoys the same status as the other Ubuntu derivatives such as Xubuntu & Lubuntu.
[19:59] <dougl> you mean you can pay for support for kubuntu?
[19:59] <dougl> err - or could have?
[20:00] <DarthFrog> dougl: I believe so.  Riddell is/was a Canonical employee.
[20:00] <DarthFrog> Blue Systems has taken over patronage of the Kubuntu Project.
[20:00] <dougl> that is a nice option to have.
[20:01] <DarthFrog> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/04/10/1639252/kubuntu-to-be-sponsored-by-blue-systems-rather-than-canonical
[20:01]  * dougl is reading...
[20:02] <shadeslayer> dougl: someone is going to take over support stuff, best to talk to Roey
[20:02] <shadeslayer> erm
[20:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell ^
[20:03] <dougl> thanks shadeslayer
[20:03]  * shadeslayer remembers that it was on the meeting agenda some time ago
[20:15] <Verg> thanks a lot!
[20:43] <Gorroth> hi
[20:44] <Gorroth> on the ATI Catalyst drivers, is anyone else having problems with konsole flickering when you resize it?
[20:44] <Gorroth> and then when you stop resizing it just shows what was behind it until you find a way to refresh the konsole window?
[21:00] <Gorroth> i think this is actually a KDE problem around some buggy code involving refreshes
[21:00] <Gorroth> i'll upgrade to KDE 4.9 first and see if that fixes the problem
[21:43] <Gorroth> *sigh* eclipse is downloading from the ubuntu archives so slowly :(
[21:56] <Num83rGuy> Are there any up to date instructions on how to get a d-link DWL-250 e1 wireless card working?
[22:02] <OerHeks> Num83rGuy, There are 2 kinds of D-Link DWL-G250 cards, what is yours ? see " lspci " in terminal
[22:03] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: 00:0a.0 Network controller: Intersil Corporation ISL3874 [Prism 2.5]/ISL3872 [Prism 3] (rev 01)
[22:03] <OerHeks> for the ath5k version see > http://askubuntu.com/questions/146564/how-do-i-get-a-d-link-dwl-g520-working
[22:06] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: I found and have don this and the card is now seen but no networks show up so I thought it was a case of "partially working"
[22:06] <Num83rGuy> Thanks I will ply with it for a while.
[22:07] <OerHeks> Num83rGuy, did you reboot after that?
[22:08] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: Yes, and all seems to work but, I don't get any signal so I will see if it is due to other parts of my network. Thanks.
[22:09] <OerHeks> Sorry to hear that. I never experienced that.
[22:11] <Roey> dougl:  hiu
[22:11] <Roey> *hi ho
[22:13] <slowz> This isnt #windows, Reboots solve nothing. after you install a module. "sudo modprobe ath5k" in this case. reboots are for kernel upgrades...
[22:13] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: Offhand, do you know what 802.11 revision (a, b, g, n,) that card supports?
[22:14] <OerHeks> Num83rGuy, if i remember correct 802.11b  11 mbit
[22:16] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: Thank you.
[22:28] <pem__> Hi guys, just trying Konversation (a new switcher to kubuntu).
[22:30] <pem__> Anyone succeed in using a MAPI Exchange client with kmail
[22:54] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: Hello again. I ran ifconfig -a to get more info on the card and the MAC address is all 0's (wifi0     Link encap:UNSPEC  HWaddr 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00) Is this normal?
[22:55] <OerHeks> No. check your bios, maybe you can set a mac adress.
[22:56] <OerHeks> else set it in networkmanager
[22:56] <Num83rGuy> OerHeks: OK. if I can.
[22:56] <OerHeks> In networkmanager should do fine, 3th TAB
[22:57] <OerHeks> *edit network connection, then 3th tab
[23:01] <faLUCE> hi. I'm pretty sure that the os mounts an usb 2.0 device as an usb 1.0 one. It's an usb camera. How can I check that, before trying to solve?
[23:03] <phil> anybody knows how  to upgrade chromium in Kubuntu ?
[23:09] <OerHeks> phil use " lsusb -v " and look for bcdUSB value
[23:09] <OerHeks> faLUCE, ^ ( sorry phil)
[23:12] <phil_> OerHeks: that's ok
[23:12] <faLUCE> OerHeks:  I see both 1.0 and 2.0. The problem is that I have 4 phisical ports on my laptop and I don't know how to check which one works as 2.0. apparently, non of them does that
[23:14] <DarthFrog> faLUCE: Plug a USB 2.0 device into one of them and do the lsusb -v scan again.
[23:20] <OerHeks> phil, chromium is @ v18 , there used to be a ppa, discontinued now. somehow the packaging is behind chrome, wich is @ v21
[23:24] <faLUCE> Deathvalley122: OerHeks, I see   bcdUSB               2.00
[23:25] <faLUCE> but I'm pretty sure it works as 1.0, since I can't go over 12 mbps
[23:25] <OerHeks> faLUCE, is it a webcam ?
[23:26] <DarthFrog> faLUCE: Next time you reboot, check your BIOS is set for fullspeed USB 2.0.
[23:26] <faLUCE> DarthFrog: I don't have this option in bios
[23:26] <DarthFrog> 12 mbps falls within the USB 2.0 spec.
[23:26] <OerHeks> most webcams up to 1.3 mpixel just need usb 1.1 ( more than enough bandwith
[23:26] <faLUCE> OerHeks: yes, it's a webcam
[23:27] <faLUCE> OerHeks: the problem occurs when I plug two webcams. I can only open one per time, ore two at a low res
[23:29] <faLUCE> there's clearly a problem
[23:29] <eros> hi
[23:29] <GH0> What is the proper way to mount an external hard drive so anyone can read/write to it?
[23:29] <GH0> As of right now, the auto-mount feature is broken.
[23:30] <GH0> I am aware I could mount, and then chown, but there would have to be an easier way to do this.
[23:31] <OerHeks> faLUCE, not sure what causes that behaviour.
[23:31] <GH0> If I add it to fstab, and it can't find the drive, I don't want some unexpected issues to come up.
[23:32] <OerHeks> GH0, use blkid to detect your ext hdd UUID > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab
[23:33] <gbz> is the beta 1 image usable?
[23:33] <OerHeks> gbz, ubuntu 12.10 is @ beta 2
[23:34] <gbz> what about kubuntu?
[23:35] <gbz> show i stop the download?
[23:35] <gbz> s/show/should
[23:35] <OerHeks> sorry, correct, kubuntu is @ beta1
[23:36] <misael> hola
[23:36] <gbz> OerHeks: but ubuntu is beta 2?
[23:36] <OerHeks> yes
[23:37] <gbz> weird, i thought they followed the same schedules
[23:37] <misael> alguien que hable español ?
[23:38] <gbz> solo un poco
[23:39] <misael> hola gbz
[23:39]  * OerHeks is confused, read about beta 2...
[23:40] <misael> no entiendo esto muy bien
[23:40] <gbz> maybe it was alpha 2
[23:40] <misael> iam from dominican republic
[23:40] <gbz> poor guy:)
[23:42] <gbz> misael: quieres preguntar algo?
[23:44] <misael> no se como se usa esto
[23:45] <gbz> its simpler than windows (tm)
[23:45] <gbz> anyway
[23:54] <GH0> OerHeks, I am aware of fstab, however, this is an external drive that isn't always mounted.
[23:55] <GH0> Along with that, the root folder is still root only, so how would I go about making the folder accessible to everyone?
[23:55] <GH0> Without using chmod/chown.


[02:18] <ace_suares> LaserJock:
[02:20] <LaserJock> hi ace_suares
[02:36] <ace_suares> just saying hi
[04:37] <dgroos> I'm adding groups in jaunty server and I looked at the /etc/group file and I'm wondering why most groups have an "x" as the second value and the groups I just added have an "*" as the second value.  Anyone know?
[04:54] <dgroos> For example, a line in the /etc/group file looks like this:
[04:54] <dgroos> staff:x:50:
[04:54] <dgroos> I know that "staff" is the name of the group,
[04:54] <dgroos> "50" is the Gid
[04:54] <dgroos> but what does the "x" represent?
[04:57] <sbalneav> Nothing
[04:57] <dgroos> as in "empty"?
[04:57] <sbalneav> Nominally, it's a password field for if you wanted passwords for group changes.
[04:57] <sbalneav> But that's more historical than anything else.
[04:58] <dgroos> hmmm... so if instead of an "x" it has an asterisk then that might be KUser's way of doing the same thing?
[04:58] <sbalneav> right.
[04:59] <sbalneav> There's no "set standard" of what placeholder character could go there
[04:59] <sbalneav> it's just ignored.
[04:59] <sbalneav> man 5 group
[04:59] <dgroos> Thanks!!!
[05:00] <stgraber> sbalneav: hey, Scotty, did you see that we'll have Ollie at the hackfest ?
[05:00] <sbalneav> No, I didn't, but that's awesome news!
[05:00] <stgraber> yup
[05:00] <sbalneav> I'm looking forward to seeing all my pals again :)
[05:00] <dgroos> BTW  sbalneav, I just dropped my daughter at Tache hall--nice place :)
[05:01] <sbalneav> Ah, took a look around the campus, did you?
[05:01] <sbalneav> Nice place.  The admin building in the centre's quite nice to wander about in.
[05:01] <dgroos> Indeed,nice place
[05:02] <sbalneav> Sorry about the mosquitoes.  The sudden spat of warm weather's brought them out in force :(
[05:02] <dgroos> I didn't have time to go much inside buildings, but it has a friendly, community feel to the campus.
[05:02] <sbalneav> It wasn't a pleasent weekend at the cottage.
[05:02] <dgroos> they were crazy!!!  reminded me of canoeing in the Quetico in the spring
[05:03] <sbalneav> The mosquito's the provincial bird of manitoba :)
[05:04] <dgroos> We sometimes say the same in Minnesota :)
[05:04]  * stgraber suddenly knows where he's not going to be on holiday :)
[05:24] <dgroos> I'm making a csv file to batch add users to the server.  One of the fields to add is the groups to add the user to.
[05:25] <alkisg> dgroos: heh, I'm making a python script to batch import users from a csv file these days. Nice coincidence :)
[05:25] <dgroos> I've added the users to these groups, sound right?: audio, dip, video, sambashare.
[05:26] <dgroos> alkisg: good evening/morning :)
[05:26] <alkisg> Hello
[05:27] <dgroos> It does seem like this is a pretty basic need in education.
[05:27] <alkisg> The default groups are there: `grep group /etc/gnome-system-tools/users/profiles`
[05:27] <dgroos> Thanks, I'll check it out.  When does your school year commence?
[05:28] <alkisg> School year is Sep => Jun, then 2 months of vacations.
[05:28] <dgroos> interesting--same schedule here in US.
[05:30] <dgroos> I skipped a few of these groups such as floppy, tape, cdrom as we don't have these on the thin clients
[05:32] <dgroos> it also includes, adm and lpadmin which sound like admin groups--is this correct?
[05:32] <alkisg> The first line, groups=cdrom,floppy,dialout,tape,dip,adm,plugdev,fax,fuse,video, is for "desktop users"
[05:33] <alkisg> The second line is for "admins"
[05:33] <dgroos> que vale el que sabe :)
[05:33] <alkisg> Δεν κατάλαβα γρι :)
[05:33]  * alkisg google-translates.... :D
[05:34] <dgroos> (that's greek to me :)
[05:34] <alkisg> Ah, google says that you said "worth who knows"... heh
[05:35]  * alkisg just said that he didn't understand what you wrote
[05:35] <dgroos> and google said you said, "I did not understand purse".
[05:36] <dgroos> Purse?
[05:36] <alkisg> Heh ... nah, it doesn't know the word "γρι", it isn't really a formal word
[05:36] <dgroos> I used google translate quite a bit with the file you sent me on customizing the firefox about:config file--it was great.
[05:37] <alkisg> Did you manage to make an english version out of it? I think it would be nice to have it in the edubuntu wiki...
[05:38] <dgroos> pretty much.  I'll pastebin a copy of what I've got, can you check to see that I didn't do something really weird?
[05:39] <alkisg> Uh, can we leave it for some other time? I'm in a hurry to go to work
[05:39] <dgroos> que vale el que sabe means something like, 'he who knows is very valuable'
[05:39] <alkisg> Nice :) Google is the most valuable thing :)
[05:39] <dgroos> For sure, and I to go to bed... :)
[05:39] <alkisg> OK, good night, cu tomorrow
[05:40] <dgroos> have a great day!
[05:40] <alkisg> Thanks :)
[05:42] <sbalneav> alkisg: So, I've been digginging into the whole lack of putXXent() problem in glibc
[05:42] <alkisg> Oooo nice :) Any news?
[05:43] <sbalneav> What, as in solving it?
[05:43] <alkisg> Or, as in putting the solution in a timeframe or at least in a people-frame :P
[05:43] <sbalneav> Hell, that'll take years :)  I'm suspecting the problem goes all the way to the posix(1) standard.
[05:44] <sbalneav> However, from a TECHNICAL standpoint, I think it's quite doable.
[05:44] <alkisg> damn beurocracy (I can't even spell it right :))
[05:45] <sbalneav> I'm coding up an "example" ldap_putpwent() function that we can do an LD_LIBRARY_PATH= in front of something that calls putpwent.
[05:45] <sbalneav> It seems so... unorthagonal that we can have nss funtion for the getXXent operations, but not the put.
[05:46] <sbalneav> This will be.... a long term project.
[05:46] <sbalneav> But for instance: your script...
[05:47] <sbalneav> You just want to bulk add users.  It's a simple thing that's been implemented about 1*10^60 times.
[05:47] <alkisg> (right... even though I can't find anything on google that fits my needs :( :))
[05:47] <sbalneav> Oh, wait, now you want to use LDAP at your location: ok, change the script, become an expert in LDAP
[05:48] <sbalneav> Oh, now the school wants to use Postgres or Radius as an auth mechanism: change it again
[05:48] <sbalneav> and again
[05:48] <sbalneav> and again.
[05:48] <alkisg> I understand what you're saying. It would be *most* simple to use putpwent() and some ldap configuration script to specify its behavior...
[05:48] <sbalneav> why>
[05:48] <sbalneav> Well, that part should be INVISIBLE to you...
[05:49] <alkisg> Except for the configuration file, which the admin would be able to edit, right?
[05:49] <sbalneav> if you set up your NSS stuff correctly, why should you CARE about the internals of where things are stored?
[05:49] <sbalneav> alkisg: sure, but do it ONCE, rather than have to worry about it for...
[05:49] <sbalneav> the gui user add tool
[05:49] <alkisg> Yup, I get it.
[05:49] <sbalneav> the command line add too
[05:50] <sbalneav> the bulk add tool, ad nauseum
[05:50] <alkisg> They should all respect that line of thought, I agree. What I can't understand is how these things work in Gnu/Linux - i.e. you find a "correct way to do things", you implement it, then what?
[05:51] <alkisg> Who will "approve" your implementation? The distro managers? The users?
[05:51] <sbalneav> Well, depends.
[05:51] <sbalneav> If it's something like this that may affect posix compliance:
[05:51] <sbalneav> first step would be to ensure that it doesn't.
[05:52] <sbalneav> if it does, it's a non-starter: glibc maintainers won't break posix compliance, no matter how "justified" the reason may be.
[05:52] <sbalneav> So, at that point, I'd have to make an application to the posix committee to change it.
[05:53] <sbalneav> If it's NOT a compliance issue,
[05:53] <sbalneav> then hit the upstream glibc maintainers with patches.
[05:53] <sbalneav> Usually, after talking about it with them first.
[05:53] <alkisg> That sounds difficult to get accepted... but not undoable
[05:54] <sbalneav> Distros are the LAST place to make changes like this, since they're just wanting to package upstream's goodies.
[05:54]  * sbalneav shrugs.
[05:54] <sbalneav> It's a process
[05:54] <sbalneav> You follow it, and see where it leads.
[05:54] <sbalneav> First is to do some proof-of-concept code, which I'm working on now.
[05:55] <alkisg> Yeah, but giving away your free time to write patches and then get a "no, we won't accept it" is really tiring :(
[05:55] <sbalneav> Been there
[05:55] <sbalneav> done that
[05:55] <sbalneav> Still doing it :)
[05:55] <sbalneav> One thing you learn is persistence :)
[05:55] <alkisg> ...and we thank you for it :)
[05:56] <sbalneav> Ahhh, I wouldn't make a very good Don Quixote if I didn't have a windmill to tilt at. :)
[05:56] <alkisg> Ouch, it's the first time I'm reading Don Quixote's name in English, I almost didn't understand it! :)
[05:58] <sbalneav> Heh, we jokingly call him "Quick-oats" here in Canada :)
[05:59]  * alkisg has to get to work... be back in ~1 hour (I like the easy-going first school days that are spent python-hacking....)
[06:00] <sbalneav> Okie, off to bed for me.
[06:00] <sbalneav> Night.
[06:00] <alkisg> Good night sbalneav, bye all :)
[07:10] <alkisg> Good morning
[07:20] <nubae|work> morning alkisg
[14:52] <sbalneav> Morning all
[18:33] <tubmangray_> Need help in setting up a new Edubunta LAb
[18:34] <alkisg> tubmangray_: anything specific?
[18:34] <tubmangray_> Is there someone or a resource that can walk me through it (new user!), thanks
[18:34] <tubmangray_> I need the basic network topology, software best for server, and for client users.
[18:35] <alkisg> Is that a normal edubuntu lab, or does it involve ltsp?
[18:35] <tubmangray_> I was hoping to use ltsp, as the client computers are mostly Pent3, and some 4s, server is a P4
[18:36] <alkisg> The edubuntu handbook was what you needed once... unfortunately, it's been a long time since it was last updated
[18:36] <tubmangray_> To serve a school in remote Liberia.  Headed there in a few weeks, and hoping to set up this in my house before packing it up to take with us.
[18:36] <alkisg> You can find some ltsp info in http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
[18:37] <tubmangray_> thanks.
[18:39] <tubmangray_> Do you know if Edubunto server 7.1 is gui or not?
[18:39] <alkisg> 7.10? that's ancient :)
[18:39] <alkisg> You'd better use 9.04
[18:40] <tubmangray_> I know, but the only documentation I've found that pertains to setting up a simple lab uses that version.  Here lies my problem :(
[18:40] <alkisg> Heh. No, you *shouldn't* use 7.04. You should either use 8.04 (=lts version) or 9.04.
[18:41] <tubmangray_> ok, i will pursue LTS version.
[18:44] <tubmangray_> ver 8.1 ok to use as well?
[18:45] <alkisg> 8.10? You don't really have any reason to use that. I'd suggest that you used 9.04.
[18:46] <alkisg> tubmangray_: you may try it now in your house, and if you have any questions, you could just ask here again...
[18:46] <tubmangray_> last question and sorry to be so ignorant: is LTSP on an alternate 9.04 install disk?
[18:46] <alkisg> As for the software, the teachers will tell you what they want.
[18:46] <alkisg> Yes, to install LTSP the best way is to use the alternate cd and press F4 while booting from it
[18:47] <tubmangray_> thanks!  I found those instructions with earlier versions, but never assumed same held true with 9.04.   Not really, I've only heard that in english-lang forums or irc...
[21:07] <alkisg> sbalneav: do you have any time these days to help me work out the import/export users utility I've been telling you about?
[21:07] <sbalneav> Surely.  I can set aside some time tomorrow
[21:08] <alkisg> I imagine a simple pygtk/glade dialog, with 2-3 buttons (import/export/help), and one treeview to display the users
[21:08] <alkisg> Can I send you an email with what I've got so far?
[21:08] <nubae> bah glade
[21:08] <alkisg> nubae: i'm open to new ideas... and also help :)
[21:09] <nubae> alkisg: I commented my pyqclic extremely cause Im gonna turn it into a tutorial
[21:09] <nubae> why dont u peruse through that
[21:09] <alkisg> Nice!
[21:09] <alkisg> What are you using, if not glade? Plain pygtk code?
[21:09] <nubae> of course
[21:10] <nubae> otherwise how are u gonna learn/understand?
[21:10] <sbalneav> alkisg: Of course.
[21:10] <sbalneav><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:10] <nubae> glade is kinda pointless anyway, unless u are doing a massive project
[21:10] <alkisg> nubae: I understand the need to learn, but a proper way to do things weights more in my point of view :)
[21:10] <nubae> proper way?
[21:11] <alkisg> sbalneav: ty, I will (be gentle, it's my first time :))
[21:11] <nubae> since when is glade "the proper way?"
[21:11] <alkisg> nubae: seperating the UI from the code, for once...
[21:11] <nubae> heh, but it doesnt really
[21:11] <nubae> it just gives u that illusion
[21:11] <nubae> u're far better off doing that yourself with good code
[21:12] <sbalneav> NP, if you send it out today, I'll poke around with it at home tonight, and we can hack about a bit tomorrow.
[21:12] <alkisg> I don't know if it is accepted as the proper way or not. I'm just expressing my thoughts here... E.g. in Delphi programming, where I'm experienced, forms are also seperated from the code.
[21:12] <nubae> pygtk= code for ui
[21:12] <alkisg> sbalneav: nice, thanks, I'll try to gather what I have in a presentable way
[21:12] <nubae> how do u want to seperate the code from that exactly?
[21:12] <alkisg> nubae: so your pygtk code is on a different file than the rest of your python code?
[21:12] <nubae> seems kind of silly to me
[21:13] <nubae> its ALL pygtk, if u are manipulating a window based program
[21:13] <sbalneav> So, my example code for the blog post I'm going to do (a putpwent that's ldapified) has already surpassed 300 lines LOL.
[21:13] <nubae> or whatever library u are using for the widgetry
[21:13] <alkisg> 300 lines doesn't seem too bad if it going to fix such a major problem :)
[21:13] <nubae> think of it this way... its gtk... and if u want to properly understand it... then do it manually
[21:14] <alkisg> nubae: I don't know.. I've developed large apps, with many many lines of code... Merging UI code with logic results in unreadable projects
[21:14] <nubae> yeah, I'm at 1000, but I've finally modularised it
[21:14] <nubae> alkisg: whether u code with glade or without it
[21:14] <nubae> u'll get the same thing
[21:15] <nubae> the difference being... its like comparing using openoffice or vi to edit a lightly formatted document
[21:15] <nubae> if u have a large program, with a complex ui, its probably worth it
[21:15] <alkisg> Not really. UI can be maintained by non-programmers, translators etc - code has to be maintained by a programmer
[21:16] <nubae> but from what u described above, its serious waste of time
[21:16] <nubae> and a bad way to learn
[21:16] <alkisg> Well I guess we have different opinions on this :)
[21:16] <nubae> yeah right, I'd like to see someone other than a coder maintain complex glade ui
[21:17] <alkisg> E.g. one app may be 20.000 lines, and the UI code another 20.000 lines. *Not* having to worry about syntax errors in the later is a good thing...
[21:18] <nubae> to me using glade is like using visualbasic, with the disadvantage that you dont learn anything new at all using glade, it just adds another layer of complexity to an already complex beast
[21:19] <nubae> and if u want to do anything different than the basics, like inheritance of widgets and such, forget it
[21:20] <alkisg> Again, I don't really think so... I've implemented a lot of new components in Delphi, and that didn't stop me from appreciating the fact that I can graphically design my forms
[21:20] <nubae> to me gtk is a little like putting puzzle pieces together
[21:20] <nubae> delphi=!glade/gtk
[21:21] <alkisg> Why is it so different, as to change the way I think?
[21:21] <nubae> delphi integrates the ui and code, glade doesnt, its totally different
[21:22] <alkisg> OK I think we should just leave it at "we have different opinions on this" :D
[21:22] <nubae> I've used delphi too, had to manage a real estate program that was coded in it for my company years ago
[21:22] <nubae> well I think you are not seeing the differences
[21:22] <nubae> u need a visual delphi manager to understand its code
[21:23] <nubae> u dont need that for python+gtk+cairo, etc
[21:23] <nubae> gtk is really simple in terms of layout, u have 4 methods... vertical and horizontal boxes,
[21:23] <nubae> tables
[21:24] <nubae> fixed positions
[21:24] <nubae> and shit... i forget the 4th, cause i never use it
[21:24] <alkisg> I think I understand the differences, and they don't seem so important to me - neither C# seems radically different, neither Qt (as little as I have seen it), neither Vb (for the UI/code seperation part). But yeah, I don't think I understand your point...
[21:24] <nubae> anyway, its like the difference between using dreamweaver vs vi
[21:25] <nubae> thats a better comparison
[21:25] <alkisg> E.g. "u need a visual delphi manager to understand its code" ==> what does that mean?
[21:25] <nubae> imagine u required dreamweaver to read html... that u couldnt just cat it
[21:26] <nubae> hell its like using command line vs managing everything through system and preferences
[21:26] <alkisg> I also think that html is no programming :)
[21:27] <alkisg> It's ui...
[21:27] <nubae> yeah, so is pygtk
[21:27] <nubae> even MORE so than html
[21:28] <nubae> no if I wanted to do a complex table layout that I new had to be pixel perfect, yeah I'd use dreamweaver
[21:28] <alkisg> And why wouldn't you use it for simple pages?
[21:28] <nubae> after I'd learned how to do it without it, ie, I knew all the tags, understood the underlying language
[21:28] <nubae> because its a waste of time and it adds useless code
[21:29] <nubae> makes it unreadable for the most part
[21:29] <alkisg> I think you shouldn't involve the learning part on "what's the best practice" part...
[21:29] <nubae> let me give another example...
[21:30] <alkisg> locate '*.glade' | wc -l ==> 374... so all these apps have useless code in them?
[21:31]  * alkisg thinks we should better start an editor war...
[21:31] <nubae> way to go for generalisations...
[21:31] <alkisg> I hear that emacs would be a great os, if it had a decent editor :P
[21:31] <nubae> its not about that... u're creating an app with 2-3 widgets at most... what do u need glade for?
[21:31] <nubae> what advantage does it bring?
[21:32] <alkisg> Extensibility
[21:32] <nubae> huh?
[21:32] <alkisg> I may want to add 100 scripts later on
[21:32] <nubae> oh and u can't do that with a plain editor?
[21:32] <nubae> and... is that REALLY the case?
[21:32] <alkisg> I'd prefer my co-devs to contribute glade files than plain code that I would have to read
[21:33] <nubae> but your code is 3 widgets, their contributions are hardly gonna be glade files
[21:33] <alkisg> Yes, it is. I want to develop a users manager but I don't have the time now. But the import/export thing is needed now. So it'll be a base that I hope will be extended over time
[21:33] <nubae> I would hope at least
[21:34] <nubae> anyway... do as you will... but I'm not the only person that thinks this way, I'm sure if u peruse the web u'll find plenty of reasons
[21:34] <alkisg> E.g. each script in http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png would probably contain a glade file, to ask the user some specific input
[21:35] <alkisg> yeah anyway I don't think it's important that we persuade each other :)
[21:37] <nubae> looking at your png I can seperate it into its gtk components off the top of my head without touching glade... can you?
[21:38] <alkisg> I can seperate it into delphi components. Nope, not gtk components, I have a hard time remembering them :)
[21:38] <nubae> and it is 3 sets of widgets in the end... a menubar, toolbar, and a treelist
[21:38] <alkisg> But my co-devs will be teachers or admins; I don't expect them to be able to do that either :)
[21:38] <nubae> and  window to hold them in if u want to count that too
[21:38] <nubae> there's no need for glade there
[21:39] <alkisg> Why not graphically design something, instead of code it?
[21:39] <alkisg> I also prefer to write my docs in openoffice instead of latex or docbook...
[21:39] <nubae> if a person can't figure out that gtk.ToolBar is a toobar, they have no business coding
[21:39] <nubae> because its already been made super easy in the code
[21:39] <nubae> its unnecesary for what you are doing
[21:40] <nubae> even if u added 100 scripts, your glade wouldnt change
[21:40] <alkisg> And you think that e.g. /usr/share/synaptic/glade/dialog_changelog.glade is more complex and it justifies using glade?
[21:40] <nubae> need to add an item to a toolbar.... gtk.toolbar.insert(item1, position)
[21:40] <alkisg> *Each* script would come with its own glade file
[21:41] <nubae> its really not hard at all to visualise, like I said before... easier than html even
[21:41] <alkisg> E.g. a script to add a bookmark would have an edit box to paste the bookmark
[21:41] <nubae> yes, synaptic's menu is far more complex
[21:41] <alkisg> The changelog dialog?
[21:41] <nubae> its the whole thing, u cant look at one item in it
[21:42] <nubae> either u use it or u dont, its not I'll use it for this little bit here
[21:42] <nubae> anyway, enough arguing... go forth and enjoy glade :-)
[21:43] <nubae> I wonder how much the pygtk and gtk reference manuals will help you though...
[21:43] <alkisg> "its not I'll use it for this little bit here" yup, /me also thinks so... That's why I want to use it in all my projects, not only the big ones :)
[21:43] <nubae> no... I was talking about per project
[21:43] <nubae> not as a general rule of thumb
[21:43] <nubae> use it when its needed
[21:44] <alkisg> nubae: don't worry. I may be new to linux, python, *and* gtk, but I've learnt a dozen or so languages in the past, I don't think it'll give me a too hard time... :)
[21:44] <alkisg> Heck, I've made my own ncurses interface before linux made the kernel :)
[21:44] <nubae> do u also use the systems and preferences managers for all your computer management?
[21:45] <alkisg> *library
[21:45] <nubae> since its an all or nothing thing it seems
[21:45] <nubae> anyway, this discussion is getting pointless...
[21:46] <alkisg> Yup. OK, let's cut it here :)
[21:46] <nubae> I've got an opinion and I wont change it and neither will you
[21:46] <alkisg> Right... /me goes back to glade...
[21:46]  * nubae goes back to vi :p
[21:47]  * nubae lies... he's actually using gedit
[21:47] <alkisg> Heh lier
[21:47] <nubae> :p
[21:47] <alkisg> *liar
[21:48] <nubae> I'd use vi, if I knew all its intricate details, but I don't
[21:48] <alkisg> I don't even want to try to learn it...  I think it's a relic from old times :)
[21:49] <nubae> I've had it a couple of times sshing into a server and only having vi there
[21:49] <alkisg> ...when esc was where tab is now :P
[21:50] <alkisg> I've learned my basic search & replace in vi, but only because I couldn't find any hex editor that did what I wanted :(
[21:51] <nubae> i've learned and unlearned it too many times to remember
[21:52] <nubae> but it is indeed kind of pointless to use vi, if u have to look up a reference via a web browser :p
[21:52] <alkisg> I think I already have about 3.768 different shortcuts in my mind... I could store another 1.000 needed for vi :P
[21:53] <alkisg> *couldn't
[21:54] <nubae> btw, this really helped me with pygtk: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/
[21:54] <nubae> very easy to understand
[21:55] <alkisg> Danke :)
[21:55] <nubae> ah alignment was teh last layout method... for some reason never use it
[23:04] <nubae> btw alkisg, Ahmuck, if its not too much trouble, would u guys mind quickly just running my program and seeing if anything strikes you as missing, odd, or just plain wrong...
[23:05] <nubae> all u have to do is: git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/pyclic/mainline.git
[23:06] <nubae> and then run python pyclic.py
[23:06]  * alkisg leaves that for another day - 1.06 am here :) g'night all!
[23:06] <nubae> it would give me immense pleasure and peace of mind if I knew your thoughts
[23:06] <nubae> oh well, tomorrow then ;-) dnight
[23:33] <Ahmuck> what is your program /


[09:56] <bazhang> ltx128> another day, another systemd-resolved vulnerability:
[09:56] <bazhang> sounds a bit like limcore of old