[00:03] <gaz1069> hi
[06:58] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:04] <diplo> Morning all
[07:20] <knightwise> hey MooDoo diplo !
[07:22] <MooDoo> knightwise: huly :D
[07:22] <MooDoo> hullo even
[07:24] <knightwise> Hollah !
[07:25] <knightwise> how are you guys today
[07:26] <Myrtti> should I go and buy some Angry Birds mugs, they're on sale today at the local supermarket
[07:29] <Myrtti> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DytAWKqeOsQ/UbhZa-PSYPI/AAAAAAAAGvU/zPvPs9IRoX0/w1278-h959-no/2013-06-12
[07:29] <Myrtti> opinions?
[07:32] <diplo> I'd like some for my kids Myrtti, always so expensive!
[07:47] <Myrtti> diplo: yeah well these are made by the Finnish equivalent of Spode or Wedgwood... they make a lot of collectible stuff, Moomin mugs are even more expensive and regularly stolen from the shops http://www.arabia.fi/web/Arabiawww.nsf/en/tableware_moomin_collection_parts_and_colours_mugs
[07:48] <diplo> Oh I like those!
[07:48]  * diplo saves some money
[07:52] <Myrtti> http://www.skandium.com/shop/kitchen-tableware/moomin-collection
[07:57]  * diplo saves quite a bit of money :D
[07:59] <christel> diplo: i dont think it is considered "saving" just because you dont buy expensive mugs you wouldnt have bought anyway...
[08:00] <christel> i purchased some lovely chairs that were on offer and decided that i had saved the 1800 quid they were reduced by... and could therefore spend that on something more fun but people kept telling me it didnt work like that :(
[08:01] <diplo> No saving to buy them in the first place, not a very rich man :)
[08:19] <DJones> Morning all
[08:28] <MooDoo> morning DJones
[08:28] <DJones> Heya MooDoo
[08:28] <hd5770> hey hey
[08:29] <mungbean> got approached by the usual tramp in bethnal green asking for money, but money he had a massive gash on his arm and blood covered entire forarm and hand.
[08:30] <mungbean> something about a taxi fare to hospital
[08:30] <mungbean> on this occasion i hope he spent the money
[08:30] <mungbean> on a cab
[08:31] <hd5770> prob just phoned 999 and got a free list
[08:52] <dwatkins> why take a taxi to hospital when there are ambulances?
[08:53] <christel> :o
[08:53] <dwatkins> (admittedly, I took a taxi to hospital when I smashed my ankle, but I knew I wasn't an emergency, and didn't want to take an ambulance away from saving someone's life, potentially)
[08:53] <mungbean> answered the question dwatkins
[08:54] <christel> i would have hoped most people would do like you and opt for a taxi if it wasnt a proper emergency ;)
[08:54] <mungbean> ambulances are mobile parademic units
[08:54] <christel> considering that it is supposedly rather costly in tax payer money to call out an ambulance :)
[08:54] <mungbean> i didn't really weigh up the pros and cons since i would have ended up not giving him anything
[08:55] <mungbean> on those occasions sometimes its good to swallow pride and err on the side of compassion
[08:55] <mungbean> if i got ripped off, then well he's less fortuante than me anyway
[08:55] <czajkowski> peeka boo
[08:56] <dwatkins> I'm still unsure about people begging for money - I give money to Shelter so they have help available, and there's all kinds of stuff possible, but I imagine they fall through the cracks in the system sometimes.
[08:58] <mungbean> this wasn't really begging (possibly)
[08:58] <mungbean> because his arm was dripping with blood
[08:58] <mungbean> it may be he's an alcoholic and broke it on a bottle cos he wants a drink
[09:01] <christel> dwatkins: i think it is sad that some people are in a position where they end up on the streets, i also think it is sad that some people allegedly beg because you can make "decent money" from it (and then go home to a nice warm bed at the end of the day) -- i also know that i cant help all of them, certainly not long term and like you i tend to prefer to give to charities instead where i can
[09:01] <popey> in Spain when my dad was ill, and they called an ambulance, the ambulance drives to the doctors house first to pick him up, then picks up a nurse, then comes to you
[09:01] <christel> it always saddened me when i still worked for the nhs to see how many of our patients ended up on the streets soon after being discharged
[09:02] <mungbean> when i was at uni there was a destructive kid in the flat next door who usually punched a window or door and had an ambulance sent out every friday night
[09:02] <mungbean> annoyed me no end
[09:02] <mungbean> cos they can't really say no
[09:03] <mungbean> those "doctors in ayia napia" programmes are depressing
[09:03] <mungbean> having to care for drunken eejits
[09:04] <popey> heh, i was one of those once, not my fault and not drunk
[09:04] <popey> someone lobbed a beer mat at me, hit my eye
[09:04] <popey> unbelievably painful
[09:05] <christel> ow.
[09:11] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:13] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:13] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[09:18] <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
[09:29] <bigcalm> Anybody with Android finding that calendar items aren't being synced recently?
[09:29] <bigcalm> Just added an item to a calendar via the web interface. Thunderbird shows the item, phone doesn't
[09:30] <brobostigon> i have not noticed that, but a friend of mine did mention a possible issue over the weekend.
[09:30] <popey> didnt google switch off calendar sync?
[09:31] <bigcalm> For Android as well? That seems somewhat dumb
[09:31] <popey> dunno
[09:32] <brobostigon> calendar sync is still showing in androids sync settings, aswell as, within androids calendar app.
[09:35] <bigcalm> I've just unticked/forced sync/reticked calendar for the account. Maybe it'll behave now
[09:58] <bigcalm> "select an user" sounds horrible in my ears and yet it's grammatically correct. Damn you English language!
[09:59] <bigcalm> It sounds as though one is selecting a user called Ann
[09:59] <NET||abuse> hmm, guake on 13.04 seems to be offset at the top too much
[09:59] <brobostigon> wouldnt, "select a user" be better ?
[09:59] <NET||abuse> gotta say, did inplace upgrade of 12.10 to 13.04, and for the most part, worked,
[09:59] <bigcalm> brobostigon: it would be, except that it's always 'an' when the next work begins with a vowel
[09:59] <NET||abuse> except the kernel didn't install at first, cause /boot partition ran out of space
[09:59] <JamesTait> bigcalm, not true.
[09:59] <NET||abuse> had to fix that :P
[09:59] <bigcalm> No?
[10:00] <brobostigon> bigcalm: ah, i see.
[10:00] <JamesTait> bigcalm, no.  :)  I had this conversation a couple of weeks ago with one of my Argentine colleagues.
[10:00] <NET||abuse> an also preceeeds h
[10:00] <JamesTait> bigcalm, I found a reference to it somewhere, let me see if I can dig it up.
[10:00] <JamesTait> bigcalm, it has a special name and everything.
[10:01] <bigcalm> I call it 'awkward'
[10:01] <NET||abuse> an ukulele
[10:01] <NET||abuse> yes, sounds sawkward :p
[10:02] <DJones> bigcalm: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/using-a-and-an-before-words/ Suggests it depends on pronunciation, rather than spelling, I guess 'user' would probably pronouned as though its spelt 'Yuser'
[10:02] <bigcalm> DJones: that's the thing. I would vocally say "a user", but feel I have to write "an user"
[10:03] <JamesTait> bigcalm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A,_an#Indefinite_article
[10:03] <NET||abuse> lets just live in opposite land and say things liek "a apple"
[10:03] <JamesTait> DJones, that about sums it up.
[10:03] <DJones> I think I'd still write 'a user', but also depends on the context and the rest of the sentance
[10:04] <bigcalm> JamesTait: thanks for the link. I'll enjoy it later :)
[10:06] <JamesTait> bigcalm, yeah, there's a lot to read in that page. :)  But tl;dr is: a/an depends on whether the next word begins with a vowel *sound* regardless of whether its a vowel *letter*
[10:06] <DJones> You could always avoid the problem and write your system docs/user manual in Latin :)
[10:06] <ali1234> a owl?
[10:07] <JamesTait> No
[10:09] <bigcalm> DJones: yeah, I'll get on that
[10:09] <JamesTait> Also, good morning all!
[10:10] <JamesTait> popey, CalDAV sync was re-enabled, and IIRC CardDAV was added too.
[10:12] <JamesTait> http://googledevelopers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/making-googles-caldav-and-carddav-apis.html
[10:12]  * JamesTait gets back down to work.
[10:24] <BigRedS> I'm getting a new work phone. Aside from the screen is there any particularly good reason to get a Galaxy S4 over an S3?
[10:25] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:26] <bigcalm> BigRedS: myself and some other S3 users have found the phone to be freezing up now and then (requiring the battery to be pulled out)
[10:33] <BigRedS> Ooh, I've no real intention of leaving the stock software on it for more than a few hours
[10:33] <BigRedS> well, actually, I did wonder if it was time to give a vendor Android another go, but the norm for me is to reflash it before I find out what I'm potentially missing out on
[10:35] <bigcalm> I've been happy with the stock on the S3
[10:35] <bigcalm> But it's become very slow and sometimes freezy
[10:35] <bigcalm> After the 2 year contract is up, I'll put CM on it I expect
[10:36] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2. Chris has had a haircut
[10:36] <davmor2> bigcalm: was it the one on the left that he had cut
[10:37] <bigcalm> davmor2: mean :P
[10:37] <BigRedS> Ah, cool. I can get a more me-proof case for the S3, and I can't see any technical diference that I'm likely to notice
[10:41] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm only jealous that he has more hair than me ;)
[10:43] <DJones> I want one http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22887729
[10:45] <SuperMatt> awesome!
[10:45] <DJones> I guess any hippies with hair down to their waist might be better not riding it though
[10:46] <BigRedS> That's not a combination I ever expected to see
[10:48] <DJones> I'll wait to see Daniel Craig waving goodbye to his pursuers in the next Bond film as he flies away across a canal/river to escape
[11:09] <DJones> Does anybody here use Dropbox on a 12.04 server machine? Just wondering whether these instructions are the safe/correct way to install it http://ubuntuserverguide.com/2012/06/how-to-install-and-configure-dropbox-on-ubuntu-server-12-04.html or if there is a better method
[11:18] <bigcalm> DJones: Get the .deb from dropbox.com. Install
[11:18] <bigcalm> That is all there is to it
[11:19] <bigcalm> Oh, sorry
[11:19] <bigcalm> On a server
[11:19] <bigcalm> Don't know :)
[11:20] <DJones> Seems to be working ok
[11:22] <DJones> Its updating & downloading in the background
[11:26] <diplo> Can use U1 on a server as well afaik
[11:27] <bigcalm> Would be nice if it were possible to do this with SparkleShare
[11:30] <directhex> sparkly!
[11:31] <directhex> we may write a sparkleshare daemon. i need to talk to hbons.
[11:33] <bigcalm> 'we'?
[11:34] <directhex> collabora. we're using sparkleshare for work. so enhancing it is a low hanging fruit
[11:37] <Laney> czajkowski: i haz booked trains for hackntalk
[11:37] <czajkowski> Laney: huzzah :)
[11:37] <czajkowski> Laney: mpt is also going
[11:38] <Laney> all the cool kids
[11:42] <Laney> 43 quid though on advance tickets :(
[11:42] <Laney> oh to have a railcard again
[11:54] <mungbean> the BBC just tricked me into watching a catcam of a cat being sick
[11:57] <bigcalm> aquarius: oh my
[11:58] <aquarius> heh.
[11:58] <bigcalm> aquarius: good luck with whatever you choose to do :)
[11:58] <aquarius> Thank you :)
[12:08] <MooDoo> bigcalm: am i missing somerhing?
[12:08] <popey> MooDoo: https://twitter.com/sil/status/345146434485645313
[12:08] <MooDoo> oh thanks popey
[12:09] <MooDoo> admit it, he's leaving to plan the LRL comeback tour for next year ;)
[12:10] <BigRedS> Heh. Xscreensaver doesn't seem to recognise my scrollwheel as activity
[12:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Right then. What's for lunch?
[12:10] <BigRedS> which is a handy reminder of when I've been scrolling down The Comments for too long :)
[12:11] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: good call!
[12:11] <BigRedS> My flatmate's just got back from a coffee shop. I'm having a selection of espressoes for lunch :)
[12:11]  * popey gets some
[12:11] <MooDoo> oh yeah it's lunch time
[12:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> gah - I've got to go "outside"
[12:11] <mungbean> i still have a dual screen screensaver bug since forever :(
[12:12] <mungbean> usually have to typoe password in blindly
[12:12] <mungbean> kinda bad when irc sessions might be in focus
[12:12]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks a walk to the chippy might be in order.
[12:12]  * popey has beans on toast
[12:14] <BigRedS> mungbean: yeah, for some reason I've not got that right now
[12:14] <mungbean> think its nividia related
[12:14] <BigRedS> but, excitingly, sometimes the box for the password doesn't appear. I get a mouse pointer that can only move in a small bit of the screen, and need to type blindly to get it to let me in
[12:15] <BigRedS> ah, I'm on Intel
[12:15] <BigRedS> but that would explain it disappearing when I got rid of my old desktop...
[12:17] <mungbean> launchpad doesn't seem to show a list of bugs that you have "me too'd"
[12:18] <BigRedS> aren't they added to the subscribed list?
[12:21] <mungbean> #848562
[12:21] <mungbean> bug 848562
[12:21] <mungbean> not exactly it actually
[12:21] <mungbean> cos my screen doesn't wake up
[12:21] <mungbean> unless u type the password
[12:22] <mungbean> seems to be ancient bug
[12:22] <mungbean> affecting nvidia proprietary
[12:23] <mungbean> also maybe not a unity bug but gnome-shell-ish
[12:24] <mungbean> bug 998735
[12:27] <Laney> wtf
[12:27] <Laney> why did it have to start chucking it down just before I was about to head out on the bike? >:|
[12:32] <bigcalm> I shouldn't really be eating dough nuts for lunch
[12:32]  * bigcalm grumbles at himself
[12:33]  * Laney grimaces and heads out into asid rain
[12:33] <Laney> said (acid?)
[12:35] <bigcalm> Assiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid
[12:35]  * bigcalm heads out into the lashing rain
[12:36] <mungbean> can't seem to install/cmopile gnome-screensaver 3.4.4 without installing massive loads of junk :(
[12:38] <BigRedS> why do you want gnome-screensaver? it doesn't do anything
[12:38] <BigRedS> oh, it blanks the screen I guess
[12:38] <mungbean> and is buggy
[12:38] <mungbean> locks the screen
[12:40] <mungbean> if i can get xscreensaver working with the zuper-L shortcut and the desktop shortcut then i would be happy instead
[12:48] <mungbean> oh. i'm using nouveau. wonder how long i've been doing that for?
[12:48] <ali1234> probably since about the time you started having loads of problems
[12:49] <ali1234> there is a way to get affecting bugs from launchpad
[12:49] <mungbean> think i've aalways had problems :(
[12:50] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~/+affectingbugs
[12:51] <mungbean> oh thanks, i never noticed the column on the right
[12:52] <mungbean> bug 1140716 is a serious one
[12:52] <ali1234> i have 200 affecting bugs of which 14 have been fixed
[12:52] <mungbean> can't believe it affects so many kernels
[12:52] <mungbean> i have similar experience with fixes
[12:53] <mungbean> mind you, in the early days, a lot were gwibber related
[12:53] <mungbean> so there were never gonna get fixed
[12:53] <ali1234> most of my bugs are in the default applications
[12:54] <ali1234> ie unity, compiz, pulseaudio. stuff that we are constantly told how good it is and how it is so much better than what we had before
[12:54] <mungbean> nobody has proven to me yet that scrapping everything and rewriting again ever fixes the bugs
[12:55] <mungbean> just get new bugs
[13:01] <mungbean> also, when gnome-screenshot runs, i get no subsequent pop up to save my screenshot
[13:20] <ali1234> mungbean: that is correct, it now saves automatically
[13:20] <ali1234> full screen that is
[13:22] <mungbean> ah, where's that?
[13:22] <mungbean> i'd rather print screen just runs shutter, but don't know how
[13:24] <popey> the nook is an interesting device
[13:24] <popey> cheap and rootable
[13:25] <mungbean> nook simple?
[13:25] <popey> yes
[13:25] <mungbean> interested to hear usefulnes and specs
[13:26] <popey> you can root it and install other apps from the market, including kindle, and other ebook reader apps
[13:26] <popey> making it a kinda ultimate e-reader
[13:26] <popey> chuck dropbox on it and you can get your files easily to it
[13:26] <mungbean> performance?
[13:27] <popey> seems okay, by ereader standards
[13:27] <mungbean> £30 still?
[13:27] <popey> yes
[13:27] <mungbean> bought too much stuff lately
[13:27] <mungbean> got a 2nd hand wii fit yesterday
[13:27] <mungbean> my son playing it is hilarious
[13:27] <mungbean> the jogging game
[13:28] <mungbean> ali1234: alt-printscrn does the current window -> pictures
[13:28] <mungbean> why did they remove teh helpful "copy onto clipboard"screen
[13:32] <ali1234> same reason they removed everything else
[13:32] <mungbean> insanity
[13:32] <ali1234> nook has e-ink display?
[13:33] <mungbean> http://shutter-project.org/faq-help/set-shutter-as-the-default-screenshot-tool/
[13:33] <ali1234> cos i am quite happy with nexus 7 as e-reader
[13:33] <mungbean> yes, and basic touch
[13:33] <mungbean> the less good touch
[13:33] <ali1234> but the backlight is a bit annoying for reading
[13:34] <mungbean> i turn my tablet to zero backlight
[13:34] <mungbean> and night mode
[13:34] <mungbean> it's just enough
[13:34] <mungbean> zero = still a bit
[13:37] <mungbean> seems the new gnome keyboard settings don't allow you to create your own shortcut
[13:37] <mungbean> can it be true?
[13:40] <MooDoo> bloomin thunder
[13:40] <brobostigon> sprinkles of rain here, nothing major yet.
[13:43] <popey> mungbean: you using gnome shell or something?
[13:44] <mungbean> elementary
[13:44] <mungbean> wonder if they removed it
[13:44] <mungbean> (or didn't add it yet)
[13:45] <ali1234> i wish gimp had adjustment layers and layer groups :(
[13:46] <MooDoo> ali1234: code it :p
[13:47] <ali1234> they've been coding it for about 8 years now
[13:47] <MooDoo> lol yes sounds about right
[13:47] <ali1234> it's supposed to be in gimp 3.2
[13:48] <ali1234> so about another 4 years
[13:48] <MooDoo> lol
[13:48] <ali1234> it would probably be easier for me to write a whole graphics app from scratch, than try to work with gimp source
[13:49] <ali1234> does KDE have a high end paint program?
[13:49] <ali1234> maybe i should just buy photoshop :(
[13:49] <mungbean> not high end
[13:49] <mungbean> more like PSP
[13:49] <MooDoo> doesn't 2.8 have layer groups?
[13:50] <ali1234> PSP is roughly feature parity with gimp these days
[13:50] <ali1234> ah yes it does have groups
[13:50] <ali1234> but since there's no adjustment layers, making a group is pointless as you can't do anything with it
[13:51] <MooDoo> ali1234: photoshop ;)
[13:51] <mungbean> krita is the KDE one
[13:51] <Laney> good lord
[13:51] <Laney> I got d-r-e-n-c-h-e-d
[13:52] <ali1234> rainy laney?
[13:53] <ali1234> xcf2png doesn't support layer groups anyway
[13:54] <ali1234> except apparently it does
[13:54] <ali1234> it just says it doesn't but it works anyway
[13:55] <mungbean> thats the best way
[13:55] <ali1234> oh it doesn't really quite work properly
[13:55] <ali1234> you get two copies of everything, one from the merged layer group and one from the individual layers
[13:57] <ali1234> it's close though, i could probably fix it
[13:57] <popey> woot, kindle app on a nook ☻
[13:57] <mungbean> http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/04/pentagon-study-finds-beards-directly-proportional-to-combat-effectiveness/
[14:00] <mungbean> *may  be satire
[14:01] <mungbean> cleartext has screwed my laptop
[14:02] <mungbean> and no way to restore defaults!
[14:06] <mgdm> popey: nice. What's it like to use beyond as an e-reader?
[14:10] <popey> exactly as you'd expect, an android device with slow screen update
[14:10] <mungbean> how compare with kindle basic?
[14:12] <mungbean> colleague is having software problems on his nook
[14:12] <mungbean> trying to run android on it etc
[14:12] <brobostigon> i do believe there is a cyanogenmod port to it?
[14:13] <popey> i haven't flashed mine, just rooted it and added the marketplace and other apps
[14:13] <popey> you can go to play.google.com and send apps to the device
[14:13] <popey> and you retain the original nook functionality too
[14:53]  * Laney smells of wet dog
[14:54] <brobostigon> ewwwwww
[14:54]  * Laney sits next to brobostigon
[14:54] <Laney> GET A LOAD OF THIS
[14:54] <MooDoo> ewwwwwwwwww and runs
[14:54]  * Laney dries his feet on the fire
[14:54]  * brobostigon kicks Laney up the bum.
[14:56] <MooDoo> behave you too, unless you let me play as well.
[14:56]  * brobostigon lets MooDoo join in.
[14:56] <MooDoo> yay
[15:15] <Monotoko> anyone know anything about fcgi? :(
[15:15] <mgdm> Monotoko: a little
[15:16] <Monotoko> mgdm, any idea why it would dump a html file out as raw html, as opposed to a page?
[15:17] <Monotoko> (still trying to figure out what's calling this system error... as far as I can see, it's just a die())
[15:18] <mgdm> when you say 'html file' do you mean 'php'
[15:18] <mgdm> ?
[15:25] <czajkowski> bah adobe
[15:25] <czajkowski> opened up a pdf and it said if you dont have the latest udpate, this message won't go away
[15:25] <czajkowski> but I'm sure it was up to date
[15:26] <Laney> adobe?!?!?!
[15:26] <davmor2> czajkowski: there's your problem :P
[15:28] <Monotoko> mgdm, no perl sorry
[15:29] <Monotoko> I can't find the source file :(
[16:08] <AlanBell> Monotoko: is it rendering the HTML and serving it with a mimetype of text?
[16:08] <AlanBell> or is is serving up your source code that should be executed to generate the html?
[16:09] <Monotoko> AlanBell, I've found the source htm file in the code... and I think this line of perl may be the culprit... $c->response->content_type('text/html; charset=utf-8');
[16:10] <Monotoko> so it looks like it's serving with a html mimetype to me...
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> \o/ perl
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> but that's a *bad* way to set the response charset ;)
[16:13] <Monotoko> I've only been here a week :P
[16:14] <Monotoko> I'm a sysadmin... but apparently the job involves a large amount of perl... coded by a guy who left months ago :) - oh and I don't know anything about perl :(
[16:16] <BigRedS> Monotoko: that's *one of* the bad ways to...
[16:17] <BigRedS> er, that was aimed at MartijnVdS
[16:17]  * BigRedS is a sysadmin whose job is partly to fix Perl not touched in ten years
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> poor BigRedS
[16:19] <diddledan> nobody should be tasked with fixing perl, let alone perl that's ten years untouched!
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I work on a 15-year old Perl codebase daily
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: though we've brought it up to modern standards mostly
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> (but not completely)
[16:20] <diddledan> ouch
[16:20] <diddledan> but then I guess I still have to support IE6 in my job
[16:21] <diddledan> and that doesn't even have the option of being brought up to modern standards
[16:21] <diddledan> legacy sucks
[16:21] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: turns out that when you complain that it's all old and unmaintained you're basically asking to be given the job of maintaining it
[16:22] <diddledan> lol
[16:22] <BigRedS> It's actually really quite interesting/fun - I'm spending a lot of time thinking about why I do things the way I do
[16:22] <BigRedS> and why I don't do them the way this guy did them :)
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: we work on a combination of "you touched it last" and "you wrote it [15 years ago]"
[16:22] <Monotoko> diddledan, nah it's not 10 years untouched thankfully... they're working on bringing jquery and dojo up to date right now I believe
[16:22] <Monotoko> which is causing the perl to complain
[16:22] <Monotoko> a lot
[16:23] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: a lot of the code I work on was written by Anon
[16:23] <Monotoko> so.. what would normally be the reason for a page coming through as raw text?
[16:23] <diddledan> Monotoko: wrong mime type
[16:23] <BigRedS> oh yeah, have you checked what headers you're getting? libwww-perl gives you the HEAD command which you can use to get the HTTP HEAD of a document
[16:24] <BigRedS> HEAD http://example.org/page.pl
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> curl -I ;)
[16:24] <Monotoko> let me try
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> because H was already something (help?)
[16:25] <Monotoko> most likely... installing curl on this dev box now...
[16:25] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: it adds a header, IIRC
[16:25] <Monotoko> ahha
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: ah yes, a request header :)
[16:25] <Monotoko> it's coming through as text/plain
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> need to keep "request" headers and "response" headers apart!
[16:25] <Monotoko> now I need to figure out why...
[16:25] <AlanBell> Monotoko: is the header the first thing that the perl script attempts to send?
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "$c" indicates "context" indicates a web framework
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> Which makes the order sort-of irrelevant
[16:27] <Monotoko> yeah it is... template toolkit I believe
[16:27] <AlanBell> maybe
[16:27] <Monotoko> although I've possibly just found the culprit
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: nah, that's not a web framework, just the template engine
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: framework is something like Catalyst or Dancer
[16:27] <Monotoko> Catalyst, aye
[16:27] <Monotoko> that rings a bell... and yeah, I'm way above my expertise here
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: what happens if you run it in stand-alone debug mode?
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> you should be able to see all requests (and their responses) on the command line then
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> well, in your terminal
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: irc.perl.org, #catalyst might also help :)
[16:30] <Monotoko> MartijnVdS, I will have a look tomorrow... how do I put it into standalone debug mode? This is the first time I've been given a perl task >.>
[16:30] <Monotoko> typically I've been thrown right in
[16:31] <Monotoko> but that's the way to learn I suppose... the sysadmin who's leaving in 10 days left two hours ago and won't be back until tomorrow
[16:31]  * awilkins recoils in distaste at the idea of Perl
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: there's "catalyst.pl" you can point at a directory
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: catalyst.pl Hello
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: https://metacpan.org/module/Catalyst::Manual::Tutorial::02_CatalystBasics
[16:31] <Monotoko> thank you
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Perl is becoming less crufty
[16:32] <Monotoko> this place used to have two sysadmins... one who's been here 9 years who's leaving very soon... and one who left months ago who's been here since the early 90's
[16:32] <Monotoko> god only knows what fun this is going to have in store for me
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> lots of fun!
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> and learning opportunities!
[16:34] <Monotoko> the one who's been here since the early 90's wrote most of the perl... apparently horribly, according to Simon (the one who's leaving..)
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: A sysadmin named 'Simon'?
[16:34] <awilkins> Hmm. To a degree  everyone thinks everyone elses code is horrible in my exp.
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_Operator_From_Hell ;)
[16:34] <awilkins> Simon Travalgia
[16:35] <Monotoko> MartijnVdS, aye and yeah... I knew it'd be a bit of a jump, from a part time student PHP developer to full time sysadmin
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: was the other admin 'Stephen'?
[16:35] <awilkins> As long as it's a bit of a jump in pay
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: Perl is just PHP done right
[16:36] <Monotoko> the starting salary is enough to live on... works out to about £10/h, not much but the boss said it's because I'm inexperianced atm and we'll review it soon
[16:36] <Monotoko> and MartijnVdS, he was called Merlin
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: a real wiz, right?
[16:36] <Monotoko> I just think of a wizard
[16:36] <Monotoko> :P
[16:36] <awilkins> Beard? Sandals? Proper Unix dude?
[16:37] <Monotoko> I dunno... I've never seen him, he left months ago :P
[16:37] <Monotoko> the only thing I'm going to have is his apparently bastardised code
[16:37] <Monotoko> so I'm sure I will be cursing him to hell and back within the next few weeks
[16:39] <Monotoko> ... do I have to run the makefile if I make a little change to the perl? -.-
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: no, but you might have to restart the program
[16:40] <Monotoko> aye I've restarted apache...
[16:44] <Monotoko> hmm, well I'm off - il try to look at it again tonight
[16:44] <Monotoko> a lot to learn
[16:44] <daftykins> Monotoko: sounds like a fun job :)
[16:44] <daftykins> ta-ra o/
[18:09] <Laney> why is windows playing a ringtone at me?
[18:09] <Laney> i can't find any indication of what it's for
[18:09] <Laney> aarrrghghgh
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> Laney: terminal bell? :)
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> Laney: hardware plug/unplug sound?
[18:10] <Laney> oh yes, could be that
[18:10] <Laney> had an ubuntu touch tablet plugged in
[18:10] <popey> oh, no
[18:11] <popey> its usb "hello new device" "where'd it go" rinse, repeat
[18:11] <Laney> yeah
[18:11] <popey> very annoying
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> Pling! Plong! Pling! Plong!
[18:11] <Laney> remarkably like a ringtone when they're chained
[18:11] <Laney> on w8, anyway
[18:11] <Laney> (why was it happening, though?)
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> broken USB-client stack?
[18:12] <popey> because we haven't implemented mtp or whatever it is called
[18:12] <popey> so windows tries to identify it and mount it and can't
[18:12] <popey> then tries again
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> s/broken/incomplete/
[18:12] <Laney> surely it should give up
[18:12] <Laney> and tell me it's unknown or something
[18:12] <popey> that would be nice
[18:12] <Laney> anyway
[18:12] <Laney> now i can play civ in peace
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> soundtrack for Windows' behaviour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMy6X5cQul8
[18:12]  * Laney crushes some infidels
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> Laney: uh oh?
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> PRISM? Are you monitoring this?
[18:13] <Laney> I'm starting a new game on easy because normal is too hard for me :P
[18:13]  * Laney sucks at civ
[18:14]  * MartijnVdS has Civ:CTP somewhere
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> For Linux!
[18:15]  * MartijnVdS waits for a 3.10(-rc) to drop in saucy
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> that should improve my gfx performance by $a_lot
[18:20] <daftykins> i have another new laptop in to fix up today :D
[18:20] <daftykins> today's is an annoying 15" acer that requires the LCD to be taken off the body just to get the casing sandwich apart >_<
[18:29] <daftykins> at last, motherboard out
[19:38] <mungbean> m-in-law has list of issues need sorting with new laptop
[19:38] <mungbean> window 7 is looking attractive
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: nothing that an Ubuntu CD won't fix?
[19:38] <mungbean> i'd like to
[19:38] <mungbean> but it's almost rude
[19:39] <daftykins> it's the support i'd hate
[19:39] <dwatkins> could someone please tell me where I should be looking up stuff about the "ip" command (other than its manpage) - it managed to bring up eth0 whereas nothing else did
[19:39] <dwatkins> this is after an upgrade to 12.04
[19:39] <mungbean> to give someone such a fine OS
[19:42] <daftykins> dunno about you guys but i find wireless card SMA/RP-SMA connectors such a fiddle :D
[19:42] <daftykins> and i've got smallish fingers :O
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: SMA/RP-SMA are easy
[19:42] <daftykins> only when you have clearance around!
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: the ones on laptop wifi cards are harder
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> the tiny ones
[19:43] <daftykins> these are the ones to which i refer
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> RP-SMA: http://wireless.gumph.org/content/3/7/011-cable-connectors.html
[19:44] <daftykins> my bad, i must mean 'mini'
[19:45] <daftykins> ah nearly reassembled this machine
[19:45] <ali1234> i use some small pliers
[19:45] <ali1234> needle nose pliers
[19:45] <ali1234> if you don't have pliers there is a trick to doing it
[19:46] <ali1234> what you do is hold it by the wire about 2cm down from the connector. position it over the connector and then push down with your other hand
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: u.FL -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirose_U.FL
[19:47] <daftykins> ye
[19:47] <daftykins> ah-har
[19:47] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: ty sir
[19:47] <daftykins> silly me, mind was elsewhere
[19:48] <mungbean> updatedb and update-xapt run far too often by default
[19:49] <daftykins> rubbish - the lid lock isn't working right
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: daily = too often?
[19:49] <ali1234> "once" is too often for updatedb
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you run tracker/beagle?
[19:49] <ali1234> no
[19:50] <ali1234> i use find
[19:50] <ali1234> and grep
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> grind and fep
[19:50] <ali1234> it runs in linear time, unlike locate
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: if you have tons of files and don't know where your file is, locate can be quicker
[19:50] <ali1234> which does whatever it damn well pleases
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: as it defers the actual hard work to updatedb time
[19:51] <ali1234> i know
[19:53] <ali1234> i don't really have many files
[19:53] <ali1234> and they are either really big or part of a larger project with lots of small files
[19:54] <ali1234> updatedb doesn't handle either of those coses gracefully
[19:55] <ali1234> like i have about 40GB of 16kb files with arbitrary binary data in them. even doing "ls" in that directory takes about 10 minutes so you can imagine what happens if updatedb tries to look in there
[19:55] <ali1234> and don't even think about opening it in nautilus, that will kill the machine
[19:57] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/HOAvHVE.jpg
[19:57] <daftykins> here's todays victim, mere minutes ago
[19:57] <daftykins> :>
[19:58] <ali1234> no no you are supposed to do it like this http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/ideapad/20101125_020.jpg
[19:58] <daftykins> you could do with another desk ;)
[19:58] <popey> haha
[19:58] <ali1234> i posted that picture in #maemo and they yelled at me
[19:58] <ali1234> the desk is tidy in that photo
[19:58] <popey> that looks like every time I have ever opened up a machine
[19:59] <ali1234> which is staged btw
[19:59] <daftykins> do you really just put screws everywhere :(
[19:59] <ali1234> no
[19:59] <ali1234> i was trollin'
[19:59] <daftykins> who were the people? i'm not sure on the connection
[19:59] <daftykins> as i don't know the device
[19:59] <ali1234> i meant #meego
[19:59] <ali1234> that's a lenovo ideapad. they gave them out at meego conference to developers
[20:00] <daftykins> ah wow
[20:00] <ali1234> it has a touch screen and a twist around display so it can do tablet mode
[20:01] <daftykins> you work for lenovo then? or indirectly?
[20:01] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/desk.jpg
[20:01] <ali1234> is my desk
[20:02] <ali1234> no, i went to the conference and got a free one like everyone else
[20:02] <ali1234> then i took it apart :)
[20:02] <ali1234> then i put it back together again
[20:03] <popey> looks like my desk
[20:03] <popey> including altoids tin
[20:04] <daftykins> XD
[20:04] <ali1234> yeah it doesn't have altoids in it, it's my cig tin
[20:04] <daftykins> mines littered with flash drives today
[20:05] <daftykins> this AMD Turion X2 is still hitting 54 deg C when it should be idle
[20:05] <daftykins> nasty.
[20:05] <popey> i bought a box to put usb things in
[20:05] <popey> i thought i needed a bigger box, they outgrew an altoids tin
[20:05] <popey> now they're crashing about in a big box
[20:05] <daftykins> :)
[20:05] <popey> need more usb devices
[20:05] <daftykins> mine mostly live in my laptop backpack, for cycling places
[20:05] <ali1234> i have a box for usb devices
[20:05] <ali1234> it's an A4 paper box
[20:06] <ali1234> t's over filled and bulges out at the sides
[20:06] <ali1234> i have a dell laptop shipping box completely filled with PATA IDE cables
[20:07] <ali1234> another A4 box filled with CDROM drives
[20:07] <neuro> jono just shredded it on ubuntuonair
[20:07] <ali1234> i need to get rid of all this junk
[20:07] <ali1234> maybe i can give it to the hackspace
[20:07] <popey> ooh, cat program on bbc2
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> ooh! CATS
[20:09] <neuro> ali1234: your desk is annoyingly tidier than mine
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> Mine has tidier bits, and less tidy bits
[20:10] <ali1234> that picture is old anyway
[20:10] <ali1234> it's abou the same level of tidyness though
[20:10] <bashrc> I recently received a Lenovo Ideapad as a gift
[20:11] <bashrc> It's very nice
[20:12] <neuro> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Photo%2009-11-2012%2013%2007%2030.jpg
[20:13] <bashrc> Your desk looks tidier than mine
[20:13] <popey> yay, yours is messier than mine
[20:13] <popey> phew
[20:13] <neuro> lol
[20:13] <daftykins> ooh-err
[20:14] <daftykins> piles of gear on shelves D:
[20:14] <neuro> yeah, i really need to clear all that crap out
[20:14] <neuro> i still have a d-link adsl modem in that pile that's plugged in and switched on
[20:14] <daftykins> i can't really talk though 'cause i just moved house back in late Feb and had the benefit of throwing out any extra tosh i didn't need \o/
[20:14] <neuro> has been for years
[20:14] <bashrc> There should be some randomly placed beer cans
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: *bottles
[20:15] <neuro> i don't drink in my office
[20:15] <neuro> in saying that, i don't really drink much these days, full stop
[20:15] <neuro> however that white thing in the bottom left of the pic is a fridge
[20:15] <neuro> one of those dinky things that you can power off a car power socket
[20:16] <neuro> takes a few 330ml cans no problem
[20:16] <diddledan> hmm, os x mavericks' wifi connection is flaxy
[20:16] <diddledan> flaky**
[20:16] <bashrc> You should have the computer on top of the fridge for extra cooling
[20:16] <neuro> and when i say "drink", i mean "drink booze"; i still drink liquids for general refreshment purposes, obviously
[20:16] <neuro> bashrc: what, the computers that would not be balanced, would eventually fall off and either break and/or kill me?
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> so.. bottles of irn bru?
[20:17] <neuro> out of shot
[20:17] <bashrc> live dangerously
[20:17] <neuro> right
[20:17] <neuro> so i could put 600 quid computer on top
[20:18] <neuro> or 1000 computer on top
[20:18] <neuro> or 1700 quid computer on top
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> yes.
[20:18] <bashrc> Towers of Hanoi
[20:18] <neuro> and then cry to my home insurance co when it inevitably breaks
[20:18] <neuro> "and what happened sir?"
[20:18] <neuro> "someone told me to put my computer on top of a mini fridge that has a non-flat top"
[20:18] <neuro> *click*
[20:18] <neuro> "hello? hello?"
[20:19] <daftykins> XD
[20:20] <zleap> hi
[20:20] <daftykins> not to mention possible magnetism/electricity/other dangers
[20:20] <ali1234> fridges work on magnets?
[20:20]  * zleap is upgrading 12.10 to 13.04 so may vanish randomly
[20:20] <bashrc> Trust in the foo
[20:20] <daftykins> ruh-roh
[20:20] <ali1234> neuro: i have the same mini fridge right here
[20:20] <daftykins> (to steal from popey ;))
[20:20] <ali1234> beer bottles don't actually fit into it, if it's the same one
[20:20] <neuro> correct
[20:21] <ali1234> which is annoying
[20:21] <ali1234> cos i don't drink fizzy pop :)
[20:21] <ali1234> i could get some juice boxes or something
[20:22] <neuro> yeah, bottles don't fit
[20:22] <neuro> unless they're stubbies
[20:23] <daftykins> ugh laptop keyboard slightly damaged, can't hit F2 to enter BIOS
[20:23] <daftykins> yawn.
[20:23] <neuro> MASH IT
[20:23] <bashrc> heh
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> BOIL IT
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> STICK IT IN A STEW
[20:23] <daftykins> XD
[20:23] <bashrc> Use the force
[20:23] <ali1234> i also have the same mouse and xbox controller
[20:24] <bashrc> I find myself not using DVDs much these days
[20:24] <daftykins> oh lordy no, not optical media
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> I moved mine to a moving box the other week
[20:24] <daftykins> life's too short
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> I now have more space to put my CDs (which I do use)
[20:24] <bashrc> Although I do have a pile of USB thumb drives
[20:25] <neuro> C ... Ds?
[20:25] <neuro> what are these things that you speak of?
[20:25] <bashrc> That's a technology from the last century
[20:25] <ali1234> doovdes?
[20:25] <BigRedS> neuro: coasters
[20:25] <neuro> oh, like floopy drives
[20:25] <neuro> ali1234: do you have lickidah toov?
[20:26] <daftykins> a joovc look-a-da-toov no less
[20:26] <mgdm> that took me a minute
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I actually play my music from them!
[20:26] <neuro> or the voooohs?
[20:26] <bashrc> CDs were once regarded as having stupidly large storage capacity
[20:26] <neuro> MartijnVdS: WHAT?
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I know right
[20:26] <neuro> WHY?
[20:26] <BigRedS> Yeah, after going 1.44MB floppy to 600MB CD, the 'jump' to 4GB DVDs was a bit of an anticlimax
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> neuro: because otherwise I have to turn on my TV and/or PS3
[20:26] <mgdm> http://imgur.com/a/ahZOF omnomnomnom
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> neuro: as my receiver can't play stuff off DLNA shares
[20:27] <neuro> when I buy audio CDs, which is a very very rare event now, it gets taken out of the jewel case, ripped, put back in the case and stored
[20:27] <neuro> feh
[20:27]  * neuro hugs itunes + itunes match
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> neuro: also, because it makes for good conversation when a disc is "done" and a new one must be selected :)
[20:27] <neuro> the 21st century called, they want you to join us
[20:28] <BigRedS> did you warn them?
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I also have everything as flac in my ~
[20:28] <BigRedS> hm. It doesn't work that way round
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> neuro: for when I'm at my PC
[20:28]  * neuro likes the idea of flac in principle
[20:28] <bashrc> I converted all my audio CDs to mp3s a decade ago
[20:28] <neuro> and i tried ripping stuff to ALAC for a while
[20:28] <neuro> but gave up
[20:28] <neuro> it's just too much storage overhead for too little audio gain
[20:28] <neuro> i just rip to 256Kbps AAC now
[20:29] <mungbean> got given itunes vouchr once, had to sprnd . everything was more $£ than amazon
[20:29] <neuro> that's variable
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> neuro: with a 9TB NAS, I don't care about storage capacity a lot
[20:29] <mungbean> had too load windows to spend a voucher,  and install 50mb app
[20:29] <neuro> if we're going to play the NAS sizing game, I have 11TB, and I do care :)
[20:30] <neuro> cargobay0:/data  5.5T  3.8T  1.7T  70% /data/cargobays/0
[20:30] <neuro> cargobay1:/data  5.5T  3.0T  2.5T  55% /data/cargobays/1
[20:30] <neuro> :)
[20:30]  * MartijnVdS deletes old files sometimes
[20:30] <neuro> in saying that, i keep all my music on my MBP
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> old, useless files, mostly
[20:30] <neuro> and let time machine take care of archives
[20:31] <neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ du -sch /Volumes/Storage\ Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes\ Media/Music/
[20:31] <BigRedS> I have a largely empty external HDD and a spotify account
[20:31] <neuro> 133G	/Volumes/Storage Bay/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music/
[20:31] <neuro> eep, that took longer than i thought
[20:32] <brobostigon> kernel cleanout, had about a dozen difefrent kernels installed.
[20:32] <mungbean> how long to hear sall that onve
[20:32] <mungbean> omce
[20:32] <neuro> like a month and a half or something
[20:34] <neuro> ah jeez, someone i replied to in #ubuntu-on-air has latched onto me and is PMing me
[20:34] <neuro> "I just have one more question. How do you configure Netflix on ubuntu?"
[20:34] <neuro> aaaargh
[20:34] <neuro> "is SUN Micro and Oricle the same company now?"
[20:35] <neuro> MartijnVdS: see, if you used a "real" OS, you could stream your local music to other devices and speakers </troll>
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> neuro: oh I can, but I don't have "smart" speakers, or a receiver that speaks DLNA ;)
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> neuro: also, no direct audio cable from my office PC to my living room
[20:36] <neuro> what's DLNA got to do with anything, other than the fact that it's evil evil eeeeeevil
[20:36]  * neuro hugs AirPlay
[20:38] <neuro> mungbean: just fired up itunes ... 49 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes, 38 seconds
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> 33 days, 23 hours, 14 minutes here
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> and 99% of that I have on CD :)
[20:40] <neuro> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Screen%20Shot%202013-06-13%20at%2021.39.55.png
[20:40] <neuro> airplay \o/
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> neuro: that doesn't fix my problem
[20:41] <neuro> nope
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> neuro: my home theatre speakers don't do airplay!
[20:41] <mungbean> !apple
[20:41] <neuro> neither do mine
[20:41] <mungbean> lol
[20:41] <neuro> http://www.airserver.com/
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> if they did, I could use it from Ubuntu as well :)
[20:41] <neuro> i run a server on my mac mini which is hooked up to my surround system
[20:42] <neuro> mungbean: my desktops/laptops run OS X, my gaming PC runs Win 8, my router is pfsense (bsd) ... WHY AM I HERE!?!?
[20:42] <mungbean> community? advertising? alcohol?
[20:43] <mungbean> love?
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> nostalgia?
[20:43] <neuro> well all my servers are 12.04 ...
[20:43] <mungbean> mine are centos
[20:44] <neuro> ew
[20:44] <neuro> so are most of my employers :(
[20:44] <neuro> mix of centos 5.9, win2k3 and win2k8
[20:44] <neuro> the purge is beginning, though
[20:44] <mungbean> left a job 18mths aho, they didnt replace me, and the servers have run themselves
[20:44] <neuro> heh
[20:45] <mungbean> and 150 frdktopds
[20:45] <neuro> "in da panic, dey tried to pull da plug"
[20:45] <mungbean> desktopd
[20:45] <neuro> lol
[20:45] <neuro> i do that as well
[20:45] <mungbean> no diwntime
[20:45] <neuro> move one key to the right by accident
[20:45] <mungbean> holding a sleepimh bsby
[20:45] <neuro> smf rbrtuyhinh i yyper vomed out ,sdjref
[20:46] <mungbean> and no backlit kb
[20:46] <neuro> (and everything i type comes out mashed)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Trying Welsh?
[20:46] <brobostigon> adsl has died twice in 5 mins, this is getting annoying.
[20:46] <mungbean> new modem
[20:46] <neuro> MartijnVdS: offset touch typing
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's all Welsh to me ;)
[20:46] <neuro> hmm, i was going to make food
[20:46] <neuro> now, cba
[20:46] <neuro> may have to send an SOS to just eat
[20:47] <neuro> eww, just noticed they're running on IIS
[20:47] <mungbean> krrp thinkin its friday
[20:47] <neuro> me too
[20:47] <mungbean> fail
[20:47] <brobostigon> mungbean: it must be the adsl, as i connected to it, via an rpi, ethernetted to said router which contains said adsl modem, the rpi communicates with the router fine, however outside connection dies.
[20:47] <neuro> spent last week in oxfordshire, and the trip back and subsequent w/e has messed me right up
[20:48] <mungbean> just kicked over the gripe water
[20:48] <neuro> brobostigon: fw update needed, maybe?
[20:48] <mungbean> baby awake
[20:48] <mungbean> my evening has faied
[20:48] <neuro> awww
[20:48] <popey> bad parent
[20:48] <brobostigon> neuro: maybe, i shall see if anything is available.
[20:48] <neuro> what is it?
[20:48] <neuro> linksys? technicolor? d-link?
[20:49]  * neuro has given up on dsl routers
[20:49] <neuro> i just plug my openreach FTTC modems straight into pfsense
[20:49] <mungbean> had repeated probs with mine and every time i get new one, fixes problem for another year or so
[20:50] <popey> i haven't had to replace my superhub at all, ever
[20:50] <mungbean> my son ninja kicked a mirrored glass cupboard door yesterday
[20:50] <popey> dunno how long I've had it, but some time now
[20:51] <neuro> are you using it as your main router, or in bridge mode to something else?
[20:51] <popey> i have two other routers
[20:51] <mungbean> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-06-13/
[20:51] <popey> its in modem-only mode
[20:51]  * neuro was going to do the latter during a brief flirtation with getting virgin installed
[20:51] <mungbean> so true dilbert
[20:52] <popey> i have two WNDR3700's, one running dd-wrt, one running openwrt
[20:52] <popey> at each end of the house to get full coverage
[20:52] <mungbean> which you prefer?
[20:53] <popey> dont really care ☻
[20:53] <popey> dd-wrt is dhcp server the openwrt is just a bridge
[20:53]  * MartijnVdS likes OpenWRT a lot
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> I have 2 TP-Link WDR4300s with svn:branches/attitude_adjustment
[20:54] <brobostigon> neuro: some edimax with a massive model number.
[20:54] <neuro> blimeh
[21:04] <czajkowski> Aloha folks
[21:05] <popey> yo
[21:06] <brobostigon> neuro: why?
[21:06] <neuro> czajkowski: aloooooooooha!
[21:06] <BigRedS> Morning czajkowski!
[21:06] <neuro> brobostigon: just not a name i've heard for a while
[21:06] <czajkowski> how are we all doing this evening
[21:06] <brobostigon> neuro: ah.
[21:11] <bashrc> Congrats on the new job btw
[21:16] <czajkowski> bashrc: thanks
[21:16] <czajkowski> neuro: one day I'm going to get going to Hawaii! I'll have the lingo down
[21:17] <neuro> lol
[21:17] <bashrc> sun, sea, sand and servers
[21:22] <popey> http://mashable.com/2013/06/11/homeless-entrepreneur-thomas-backlund
[21:22] <popey> do what he did, disappear into the forest with laptop ☻
[21:22] <AlanBell> tempting
[21:23] <daftykins> argh link has embedded playing video
[21:23] <bashrc> Good luck to the fellow.  Coding in the forrest might not be such fun in winter though.
[21:23] <popey> I'd love to do that
[21:24] <daftykins> i can't even find the video - just says 'PEGI 18' and a bit of rambling
[21:24] <daftykins> then thankfully it stopped
[21:24] <neuro> sounds like you're watching an "ad"
[21:24] <bashrc> adblock ftw
[21:25] <popey> indeed
[21:26] <daftykins> yeah i used to use adblock
[21:26] <daftykins> i hadn't truly treated this desktop install as real, as i was having major issues with my OS SSD
[21:27] <daftykins> so there's not much on it at present
[21:27] <daftykins> i even host my own adblock rules :D don't trust the ones it offers
[21:27] <daftykins> oh dear at an email i just got - my friends sisters laptop which i was fixing earlier in the week, she's got it back and said thanks, but has just cracked the screen on her new one X|
[21:28] <daftykins> with this family i have a job for life
[21:30] <neuro> yeah but do you get paid for it? :)
[21:33] <popey> Mock the week was fun this week
[21:34] <brobostigon> yes.
[21:34] <brobostigon> RHGN on iplayer tmrw.
[21:35] <neuro> Red Hat Goblin Network?
[21:35] <daftykins> neuro: absolutely
[21:35] <daftykins> although i'm only charging super-mates rates right now
[21:35] <brobostigon> russel howards good news.
[21:35] <daftykins> i got ~£25 for replacing a keyboard, full strip down and clean up
[21:35] <daftykins> was all i asked for though
[21:35] <daftykins> did the OS reinstall for free
[21:38] <popey> oh Nigel Farage on QT, should be fun
[21:39] <neuro> for varying values of fun
[21:39] <popey> oh, young audience, pfft
[21:40] <brobostigon> isnt it in scotland? didnt he have to shelter in a pub from protesters last he was in scotland?
[21:41] <mgdm> yeah
[21:41] <neuro> jings, it is
[21:41] <neuro> it's in edinburgh
[21:41] <mgdm> Otherwise, he'd be pretty much irrelevant up here
[21:41] <neuro> and galloway is on
[21:41] <neuro> and that looks like the scottish tory leader
[21:41] <popey> for additional $fun
[21:41] <mgdm> I don't tend to watch QT, for the same reason I don't watch the Apprentice
[21:41] <popey> right, off to bed, will watch this tomorrow
[21:41]  * neuro nn p
[21:41] <bashrc> idiot politicians
[21:41] <neuro> nn popey
[21:42] <neuro> mgdm: anas sarwar, is that mohammed sarwar's son?
[21:42] <mgdm> neuro: think so
[21:45] <czajkowski> popey: did you ever watch torchwood ?
[21:47] <neuro> "let's set up our own google and facebook"
[21:48] <neuro> because that's worked so well up to this point
[21:48] <mgdm> Mosh is pretty good
[21:48] <mgdm> (unrelated)
[22:05] <brobostigon> galloway taking funny potshots at farage. lol
[22:09] <neuro> the funny thing is, nothing was really "ugly" about the independence debate until farage arrived
[22:16] <brianb> hi how do i remove the latest flash plugin  which was pushed as a download today and revert back to my previous version?
[22:17] <brianb> the reason is it does not work with the bbc iplayer - the old version did! so it would appear that the QA has NOT tested it using the BBC iplayer!!!!
[22:17] <daftykins> is it causing problems?
[22:17] <daftykins> ah
[22:18] <brianb> every time there is a new version of the flashplayer it causes a problem with the BBC iplayer rendering it in operative
[22:19] <brianb> i just want to remove it and get the version from the BBC
[22:19] <daftykins> sounds about right - but then you don't want to hold back flash from being updated, really
[22:19] <brianb> or get back the old version
[22:19] <neuro> the bbc don't distribute flash
[22:20] <brianb> well i just want to use the BBC iplayer and so i will be held back if that is the case
[22:20] <neuro> brianb: are you using the free flash player or the non-free player?
[22:21] <brianb> the one i downloaded from a link on the bbc site and not the one pushed it the update today
[22:21] <neuro> ew
[22:22] <brianb> so why is the update not working with the BBC iplayer then?
[22:22] <daftykins> i'd imagine there's a lag between a new version coming out and the Beeb getting their act together
[22:22] <brianb> maybe so thats no good to me
[22:23] <brianb> so how do i remove the update
[22:24] <mgdm> daftykins: I'd think it'd be something else - flash updates don't tend to break things like that in minor releases
[22:24] <neuro> daftykins: i'm using iplayer with 11.7.700 on mac right now, and it's fine
[22:24] <daftykins> i'd expect so too, but then i don't know how anal'y the BBC lock it down
[22:24] <mgdm> 'they don't', would be my guess
[22:25] <daftykins> ok well i personally expect you no longer have the old version present
[22:25] <daftykins> so i think you're out of lock to 'roll back'
[22:25] <neuro> and i wouldn't be manually installing flash on ubuntu anyway
[22:25] <daftykins> *luck
[22:25] <brianb> as far as im concerned the update should have been tested using the bbc iplayer before it was pushed for general relsease
[22:25] <daftykins> brianb: i can't see that argument going far.
[22:25] <neuro> brianb: you can't expect QA to test with every website ever
[22:25] <daftykins> ^+1
[22:26] <brianb> look all i am asking is how i remove the update ok
[22:26] <daftykins> anywho i'm not quite familiar enough with desktop flash use to advise - but i'm thinking a manual download of the older version would be what you need
[22:26] <ormiret> brianb: how was your flash plugin updated (regular ubuntu updates?)? And is flash working on other sites?
[22:26] <neuro> brianb: if you did this command in a console:
[22:26] <neuro> dpkg -l flash\* | grep ^ii
[22:27] <brianb> the BBC is the most popular website with millions of users so it should have been in QA's remit to test it
[22:27] <neuro> and paste the output into a pastebin
[22:27] <neuro> ...
[22:27] <daftykins> brianb: funnily enough Adobe could probably not care less about people wanting to watch their TV shows
[22:28] <brianb> it was updated using the ubuntu software notification of updates
[22:28] <neuro> tum te tum te tum
[22:28] <brianb> it seems nor does ubuntu!
[22:29] <neuro> brianb: would you like some help?
[22:29] <brianb> yes
[22:29] <daftykins> Canonical, i.e. Ubuntu are not responsible :)
[22:29] <neuro> please try what i've asked already
[22:29] <neuro> in a console, do this:
[22:29] <neuro> dpkg -l flash\* | grep ^ii
[22:29] <neuro> if there is any output, copy/paste it into a pastebin
[22:29] <neuro> and paste the url here
[22:32] <brianb> 5762999
[22:33] <neuro> um
[22:33] <daftykins> Devlin: hello sir, didn't know you were a UK'ian
[22:33] <neuro> the full URL would be awesome :)
[22:33] <Devlin> Yes, I am
[22:33] <neuro> i'm not a psychic ;)
[22:33] <daftykins> Devlin: whereabouts are you from?
[22:33] <Devlin> yorkshire
[22:33] <daftykins> ah-har
[22:33] <Devlin> heart o'britain
[22:33] <daftykins> honey spoke of your origins after being surprised there's a UK chan
[22:34] <Devlin> ah right
[22:34] <daftykins> ^_^
[22:34] <Devlin> well i had to come and check it out lol
[22:34] <daftykins> i'm a Channel Islander myself
[22:34] <daftykins> :)
[22:34] <Devlin> what was she saying about me?
[22:34] <neuro> brianb: url?
[22:34] <Devlin> lol
[22:34] <daftykins> 'i summoned my brit'
[22:34] <Devlin> heh
[22:34] <Devlin> well she hardly summoned me
[22:35] <Devlin> she asked if i knew about this place
[22:35] <daftykins> neuro: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5762999/
[22:35] <daftykins> URL guessing point goes to me
[22:35] <brianb> the pastbin url is the number i gave you
[22:35] <daftykins> if i may say so
[22:35] <Devlin> and i thought i'd come and see if there was a legitimate uk channel
[22:35] <daftykins> brianb: sure but some people like to reduce the workload when they're giving help ;) there are lots of paste sites :D
[22:36] <neuro> brianb: you gave me a number, not a URL; i had no idea what site you'd used until daftykins did some jedi mind trick shenanigans
[22:36] <daftykins> Devlin: well, it is that, most of these types are quite formally behind Canonical
[22:36] <daftykins> neuro: :D
[22:36]  * daftykins waves his hands
[22:36] <Devlin> right
[22:36] <Devlin> lol
[22:36] <Devlin> well i hate to say it but i use linux mint
[22:36] <brianb> paste.ubuntu.com/5762999
[22:36] <neuro> brianb: so remove flashplugin-installer using the package manager thingy, enable multiverse, do an update, then install flashplugin-nonfree
[22:36] <Devlin> since ubuntu runs like garbage on my netbooks
[22:38] <daftykins> Devlin: had you considered a variant like xubuntu?
[22:38] <Devlin> i didn't like xubuntu
[22:38] <daftykins> sounds fair
[22:38] <brianb> what is multiverse?
[22:39] <daftykins> brianb: a repository of packages
[22:40] <neuro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/89096/how-do-i-enable-the-multiverse-repository
[22:40] <Devlin> hmm
[22:40] <daftykins> Devlin: i take it you've encountered the likes of mc44 before?
[22:41] <Devlin> no
[22:41] <daftykins> ah
[22:41] <Devlin> i think he's a pleb though
[22:41] <daftykins> seemed a usual reaction was all ;)
[22:41] <Devlin> well he's wrong
[22:41] <Devlin> honey and I are two different people
[22:41] <Devlin> but in a lot of ways we are one too
[22:42] <daftykins> i may need to go and call Mulder and Scully
[22:42] <daftykins> but fair enough :)
[22:42] <neuro> wtf are you two on about? :)
[22:42] <daftykins> neuro: cross-channel hijinks
[22:42] <neuro> hmm
[22:44] <daftykins> Guest10749: you appear to be coming a cropper with nickserv
[22:45] <Guest29248> daftykins, it's me :P
[22:46] <Guest29248> trying to get ZNC working
[22:46] <Guest29248> and came a cropper with the firewall
[22:46] <Guest29248> so I couldn't get in in time >.>
[22:46] <daftykins> ah :)
[22:48] <Monotoko> :D
[23:21] <brianb> ok thanks for you help have reinstalled the old version and the BBC iplayer is now working - the problem with the new version is that the sound does not work
[23:22] <neuro> which will be fine until the next update
[23:22] <neuro> you should check on the ubuntu forums to see if other people are having similar issues
[23:23] <neuro> you really shouldn't run an out of date flash player
[23:23] <neuro> too many security gotchas
[23:23] <daftykins> too true
[23:24] <brianb> so does the bbc use a non free version or what?
[23:24] <neuro> no
[23:24] <neuro> the bbc uses Flash
[23:24] <neuro> full stop
[23:24] <neuro> whether or not the player in your browser is non-free or not is a client-side issue
[23:24] <brianb> adobe flash
[23:24] <neuro> i.e. yours, not the BBC's
[23:24] <brianb> well i download it from adobe
[23:25] <neuro> all the bbc are doing is using html tags to specify that a flash app be streamed to your browser, and rendered by the client-side plugin
[23:25] <brianb> had a link in the browsers history going back so used that link
[23:25] <neuro> where you get your plugin from is your bailiwick
[23:26] <brianb> ?
[23:26] <neuro> and the reason that the BBC link to adobe for you to install the plugin is that the bulk of their users will be IE/Firefox users on Windows, and Safari/Firefox users on Mac OS X
[23:26] <neuro> who do not have Flash pre-installed
[23:27] <neuro> if you're running Flash plugin on Ubuntu, you really should use a prepackaged version that's in the repos, be it the free or non-free version
[23:27] <brianb> so why does a later version cause problems with the sound/
[23:27] <neuro> i have no idea
[23:27] <neuro> are your kernel+sound drivers up-to-date?
[23:29] <neuro> and in fact, you haven't told us what version of ubuntu you are running
[23:29] <brianb> apart from the lastest flash update i always update my 12.04 when notifications are shown so yes all the latest kernel
[23:29] <neuro> 12.04, ok
[23:29] <neuro> and what browser are you using?
[23:30] <brianb> firefox
[23:30] <brianb> version 21
[23:31] <brianb> aol mail will sometimes cause a crash due to problems with scripts
[23:31] <brianb> only happens using aol mail
[23:31] <neuro> so don't use aol mail ;)
[23:31] <neuro> kidding.
[23:32] <brianb> does not happen using chrome with aol mail
[23:33] <neuro> have you tried iplayer with chromium?
[23:34] <brianb> what i dont like about ubuntu is when say you get a problem with the browser the screen dimms and you lose control of the system like its in a quesent state untill after a few minutes
[23:34] <neuro> any app that becomes unresponsive does that
[23:34] <brianb> yes and thats works with the hardware im using
[23:35] <neuro> so if chromium works ...
[23:35] <brianb> yeah its very annoying
[23:35] <neuro> why not just use chromium?
[23:36] <brianb> i do but tend to have lots and lots of tabs open with firefox i use it as a second browser
[23:37] <brianb> i have had as many as 60 tabs open in chrome
[23:37] <neuro> i have to use safari to book flights on virgin atlantic because their website doesn't like chrome
[23:38] <neuro> sometimes stuff doesn't work quite right
[23:38] <neuro> especially on ubuntu, which is effectively an experimental operating system (in my opinion)
[23:38] <neuro> at least when it comes to interfacing with closed source software
[23:38] <neuro> if you have a workaround, use it! :)
[23:39] <brianb> firefox tends to remember a lot more then chrome if its closed down and reopened
[23:39] <neuro> chrome remembers everything for me when i restart it
[23:39] <neuro> and i use it in multiple user mode to keep work and personal stuff separate
[23:39] <neuro> i can close my work window of tabs
[23:39] <neuro> then quit the app with my personal tabs window open
[23:39] <neuro> restart, i get my personal tabs back
[23:40] <neuro> then select my work user, and get all my work tabs back
[23:40] <neuro> Every. Time.
[23:40] <brianb> so how do you use it in multiple modes?
[23:40] <neuro> i set up multiple users
[23:40] <neuro> in the settings page
[23:40] <neuro> rtfm
[23:40] <brianb> what in chrome
[23:40] <neuro> yes
[23:41] <neuro> pretty sure chromium supports it too, no reason why it shouldn't
[23:41] <brianb> ive never done that
[23:41] <brianb> so how do you set it up for multiple user mode?
[23:41] <neuro> http://www.chromium.org/user-experience/multi-profiles
[23:42] <neuro> rtfm
[23:42] <brianb> ok thanks
[23:42] <brianb> mind you chrome is much more faster then firefox
[23:42] <neuro> that's why i use it, personally
[23:42] <neuro> memory footprint is lower too, especially for the number of tabs i keep open
[23:43] <brianb> how many tabs do you have open
[23:43] <neuro> depends on what i'm doing
[23:44] <neuro> anything between 50 and 150 depending on how busy i am
[23:44] <neuro> across two windows
[23:44] <neuro> x2 if i'm using two MBPs at the same time
[23:45] <brianb> im using Haiku for the irc using their vision irc client on a old amd laptop of 8 years and on a more modern laptop with intel dual core for ubuntu
[23:46] <neuro> i probably shouldn't say in here what i use ;)
[23:46] <brianb> mac
[23:47] <neuro> :)
[23:47] <brianb> i have a mini mac
[23:47] <neuro> the amount of paid, proprietory software i use during a day is just stupid :)
[23:48] <brianb> really
[23:49] <neuro> Linkinus, Coda, Sublime Text, Transmit, Office 2011, Office 2013, Pixelmator, MS RDP Client ...
[23:49] <brianb> so is your daily platforms windows based
[23:49] <neuro> nope
[23:49] <neuro> mainly centos+ubuntu with some win2k3/win2k8
[23:50] <daftykins> neuro: it's safe - i'm running Windows
[23:50] <neuro> phew :)
[23:50] <daftykins> they haven't chased me out yet... ;)
[23:50] <brianb> lol
[23:50] <neuro> 7? 8?
[23:50] <daftykins> i'm typing from ubuntu server though \o/
[23:50] <daftykins> 7 ja
[23:50] <neuro> win 7 is probably the best windows OS since win2k
[23:50] <neuro> it's stable, it's useful, it's usable
[23:50] <daftykins> i agree, i need exposure to what i support for people too
[23:51] <daftykins> as a freelance IT'er
[23:51] <neuro> good call
[23:51] <neuro> i usually have win7 close to hand, i have a dell vostro that i keep handy for close encounters
[23:51] <neuro> plus win7 parallels VMs on both my main macbook pros
[23:52] <neuro> less said about win8 on my dell gaming thingamajig, the better
[23:53] <neuro> oh good, speaking of flash, i've just had an updater notification appear
[23:53] <neuro> i was going to quit chrome anyway ;)
[23:54] <brianb> the problem with windows all versions - is when you switch on a pc with it installed and connected online to the net the auto updates always start just when you want to use it or if you power down it then decides to do a  update and install lots
[23:54] <brianb> of stuff
[23:54] <neuro> i'd rather it did update than didn't
[23:55] <brianb> every time i boot into windows it does a\ update
[23:55] <brianb> then a restart a few times
[23:57] <brianb> but all operating systems have their little quarks
[23:57] <neuro> with their rules of acquisition ...
[23:57] <neuro> and their dabo tables ...
[23:58] <neuro> no Deep Space Nine fans in the house then? oh well :)
[23:59] <daftykins> brianb: there are ways to control such things. manual updating is the main one :D
[23:59] <neuro> yup
[23:59] <daftykins> neuro: yeah i am a bit :) i was just elsewhere then though
[23:59] <brianb> i know


[22:59] <oerheks> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/leak-of-msi-uefi-signing-keys-stokes-concerns-of-doomsday-supply-chain-attack/
[22:59] <oerheks> and affected devices https://github.com/binarly-io/SupplyChainAttacks/tree/main/MSI


[18:45] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:46] <olly_> morning
[20:02] <chilts_> morning
[20:05] <mwhudson> morning
[20:12] <thumper> morning


[00:18] <studiobot> Jassiel G was added by: designbybeck
[20:36] <studiobot> s_delrio was added by: s_delrio
[22:50] <studiobot> KekandaAdi was added by: KekandaAdi