[00:50] <mare_123> hi, is there any way to set dark theme in qt apps on xubuntu 22.04?
[00:59] <mare_123> my nordic darker theme doesnt seem to work in qt apps like okular, smplayer...
[01:16] <tahusyad05> t
[01:16] <tahusyad05> Hello
[01:19] <ComputerTech> should:  do-release-upgrade with the -d flag be safe? or should i wait it out until the release is properly done?
[01:21] <kerry> my system is a 64 bit ubuntu desktop
[01:21] <kerry> it's saying that I dont have secureboot enabled
[01:21] <kerry> just wondering if that is a big deal?
[01:21] <kerry> also it's failing all the tests in the same page which is concerning
[01:23] <kerry> also if you add more than 1 device to v4l2loopback
[01:24] <kerry> the original v4l2 device fails to work
[01:24] <kerry> being OBS
[01:25] <kerry> lol when all else fails i guess try rm -r * LOL jk JK
[01:25] <kerry> :P
[01:25] <ComputerTech> :O
[01:27] <kerry> v4l2 has some issues
[01:27] <kerry> it needs some tissue
[01:28] <kerry> lol
[01:28] <kerry> can you say quick patch for $100 Alex
[01:28] <kerry> :P
[01:28] <kerry> please n thank you :P
[01:29] <kerry> lol
[01:30] <kerry> not sure how to flash a bios in linux
[01:30] <kerry> when my bios is designed to be flashed in winBLOWS
[01:30] <kerry> *cough* windows
[01:30] <kerry> it does need an update
[01:33] <kerry> i am running Ubuntu 23.04 64 bit edition
[01:35] <kerry> i was thinking installing a wine perhaps
[01:35] <kerry> and using it's own program to make a usb update
[01:35] <kerry> my only idea on that one
[01:36] <toddc> kerry: some bios can flashed in ubuntu but most bios can reflashed from a usb with the firmware on usb older ones may bneeo a dosboot with file  secure boot is not a big deal for most I have both and use it when I can
[01:37] <kerry> what do i need to flash it in unix
[01:37] <kerry> the bios
[01:37] <kerry> bneeo
[01:38] <kerry> that win or linux?
[01:38] <toddc> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1043671/how-to-do-bios-uefi-update-on-a-ubuntu-system
[01:39] <kerry> it's not a dell
[01:39] <toddc> need I fail to check what I type and bad at typing
[01:39] <kerry> it is however a intel board
[01:40] <kerry> how i get the model # is beyound me
[01:40] <kerry> i have a bios version which doesn't help
[01:40] <kerry> in the about of linux
[01:40] <kerry> under settings
[01:41] <kerry> BEH6110H.86A.0020.2011.0218.1538
[01:41] <kerry> i believe it is BEH6110H
[01:43] <toddc> It would be best to open and MB model and reboot into bios to verify version
[01:44] <kerry> it says here it's DH61WW
[01:44] <kerry> i'm confused
[01:45] <kerry> where would it give such information?
[01:45] <kerry> in the bios?
[01:45] <toddc> open case and find MB model number printed on it and who mades it that way you can go who ever made it and get the correct current firmware
[01:45] <kerry> i dont even see a secure boot option here
[01:45] <kerry> thanks i'll try to locate it
[01:46] <kerry> appreciate ya
[01:46] <toddc> np I only use it when I can and it is often had to find as each bios is a lot differnt
[01:48] <toddc> secureboot only adds a small verification of drivers so not  big deal either way
[01:56] <ashafq> Are there any scope for signal processing engineer for project like ubuntu? Where can I contribute source?
[02:01] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: In what way? Be specific.
[02:05] <ashafq> Eickmeyer: I am good at signal processing, and audio. I wanted to contribute to the ubuntu ecosystem. Thus I was wondering which project requires some signal processing help.
[02:06] <ashafq> Are there any projects maintained by Canonical that needs signal processing help.
[02:06] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: Ubuntu is an operating system that happens to distribute applications along with that operating system. Is there any specific application or technology that piques your interest within Ubuntu?
[02:06] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: Canonical doesn't maintain every single component in Ubuntu.
[02:07] <ashafq> Eickmeyer: Well, that's what I wanted some guidance on. I may not be familiar with many of the projects out there that may need signal processing help.
[02:08] <ashafq> Also, I am pretty decent at optimizing code. I don't know if that helps.
[02:08] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: The audio subsystem is comprised of many components. First of all, there's alsa which is mostly withink the linux kernel itself with some auxiliary components elsewhere.
[02:08] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: Then there's PipeWire which does a lot of the user-level handling.
[02:09] <ashafq> Eickmeyer: Is pipewire standard on Ubuntu now?
[02:09] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: If you're interested in getting to know some audio development, I know some great devs in #lad (Linux Audio Developers) that could direct you in the right direction.
[02:09] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: Yes, PipeWire is standard as of 22.10, and will be in 24.04.
[02:10] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: However, most of PipeWire collaboration takes place on the OFTC network in #pipewire.
[02:11] <ashafq> Oh OK. I have asked #pipewire if they need some DSP help.
[02:11] <ashafq> I guess I'll wait.
[02:11] <Eickmeyer> ashafq: Not this network. irc.oftc.net
[02:11] <ashafq> Yea, in OFTC
[02:11] <Eickmeyer> Perfect.
[02:12] <Eickmeyer> But also, #lad is a good place on this network, lots of devs doing DSP stuff there.
[02:12] <ashafq> I am somewhat active in #lad
[02:12] <Eickmeyer> I'm there also because I do packaging work for them (Ubuntu Studio lead here)
[02:12] <ashafq> Oh nice
[02:13] <ashafq> I should spend some time on how to package libs for Ubuntu sometime.
[02:14] <Eickmeyer> Libs are their own ball of wax and take standard packaging and add some extra knowledge, so learning basic Debian packaging first is pretty much a prerequisite. :)
[02:14] <ashafq> Any tutorials that you may find good?
[02:14] <ashafq> I'll start with my current libs that I have on Github
[02:14] <Eickmeyer> Sadly, learning from doing is the best way. Best place to go is the Debian Packaging manual.
[02:15] <Eickmeyer> https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging
[02:15] <ashafq> Ok. Thanks. That's good to know.
[02:16] <Eickmeyer> Basically that's how I had to learn.
[02:16] <ashafq> Most of my projects were in embedded systems before. And 'packages' that I had to deploy would have so little users that people usually downloaded from source.
[02:17] <Eickmeyer> Fair enough.
[02:24] <ashafq> I guess there's also SOF project
[02:24] <ashafq> But that's more on making custom audio devices.
[02:30] <CumbaLit> how would I best test a script that I have that escapes characters?
[02:41] <ComputerTech> So I upgraded from ubuntu 23.04 to 23.10 via do-release-upgrade -d
[02:42] <ComputerTech> but Ubuntu software is still the same name, and not app centre, and quarter tiling isn't working
[02:42] <ComputerTech> do i need to download freshly from the ISO and install fresh?
[02:51] <ComputerTech> yeah i can't find an option to enable quarter tiling, nor is it working, any ideas? :v
[02:57] <ComputerTech> ok fixed quarter tiling by installing tiling assistant, but App Centre is still being replaced by Ubuntu Software for some weird reason
[03:01] <ComputerTech> ok now fixed that by following https://askubuntu.com/questions/1488852/upgraded-from-23-04-to-ubuntu-23-10-no-app-center-no-firmware-flashing-tool
[03:02] <ComputerTech> all good now, app centre is here \o/
[03:02] <ComputerTech> sry for unnecessary blogging <3
[03:08] <TheWebFox> ComputerTech, snap install snap-store --channel=latest/stable/ubuntu-23.10 and same for firmware-upgrade
[03:09] <TheWebFox> ComputerTech, make sure you do not install --edge or --beta
[03:09] <TheWebFox> yep, it's okay, the suggestion are good
[03:24] <ComputerTech> TheWebFox: neat
[03:24] <ComputerTech> :>
[03:24] <ComputerTech> ty for the suggestions tho <3
[04:24] <ob_123> como instalo aplicaciones por cmd en Lubutu
[04:27] <toddc> 1234
[04:27] <TheWebFox> ob_123, Lubuntu is not supported here, #lubuntu
[04:28] <Bashing-om> !support
[04:28] <TheWebFox> ob_123, sudo apt-get install <application package name>
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> TheWebFox: technicaly, all flavours of ubuntu fit also here
[04:29] <TheWebFox> or sudo apt install <app name>, example sudo apt install htop
[04:30] <TheWebFox> lotuspsychje, yeah and the command is universal to Debian and *deb distro
[04:32] <TheWebFox> ob_123, and then there is snap also, snap install spotify, or snap install discord
[05:04] <ruser> so i'm trying to install efibootmgr  [ apt install efibootmgr] however there is a hash mismatch
[05:04] <ruser> Not sure where to go from here
[05:05] <matsaman> https://askubuntu.com/questions/41605/trouble-downloading-packages-list-due-to-a-hash-sum-mismatch-error
[06:51] <ruser> rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/* did indeed solve my issue
[07:50] <bitchin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmoA3A-0P9U
[07:51] <bitchin> hi
[07:57] <ruser> is the ed25519  still recommended key type? for ss?
[07:58] <ruser> **ssh
[08:18] <lovska> Hi everyone, I have one problem after installing Ubuntu can I attach a screenshot?
[08:25] <guiverc> lovska, you can provide a link where people can view the screenshot; and please provide product & release details (product being server/desktop & include which ISO if you're using a release that has choices)
[08:27] <elly_> hei
[08:27] <elly_> hi
[08:29] <elly__> hu
[08:32] <lovska> Can I link where I can give the image
[08:55] <ruser> what am i doing wrong.... i just generared a pair of keys, and copied pub into authorized_keys via ssh-copy-id -i flag... and now the remote host denied authentication
[08:56] <ruser> ll
[10:00] <tekisui> ni hao
[10:00] <tekisui> lubuntu keeps on lowering the output audio volume at random
[10:00] <tekisui> wass passiert ?
[10:23] <phr34k> hi! I believe I read that lxc/lxd development is going to be taken over by ubuntu isn't it?
[12:07] <Yakov> how to allow launching .desktop file with cmd?
[12:14] <TenPlus1> Hi folks, has anyone upgraded from 22.04 to 23.10 and noticed a huge jump in memory usage ??
[12:17] <jeremy31> Yakov: see what command is used in the .desktop file
[12:19] <realivanjx> is there a way to reorder the icons on the top right of the screen?
[12:22] <TenPlus1> @realivanjx - maybe gnome tweaks has a setting to move them around
[12:36] <dux891> hello
[12:37] <TenPlus1> hi dux
[12:37] <realivanjx> nvm i found this: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4356/top-bar-organizer/
[12:58] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:58] <TheWebFox> hi
[14:54] <JanC> jeremy31: Yakov is gone, but for next time someone asks it, the answer to that is "gio launch application.desktop"
[16:16] <ruser> does grub-pc need to have an mbr or something else?  I was initially trying to isntall an efi grub but i'm using ancient hardware that doesn't support it.
[16:16] <toddc> ruser: no
[16:17] <ruser> toddc: so it can just go ... here? /dev/sdb1     2048     1050623     1048576  512M EFI System
[16:19] <toddc> yes but format it ext4  I use ubuntu boot repair it will set it up automaticly
[16:20] <toddc> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[16:20] <ruser> i'm trying to setup zfs  raidz1 across 3 disks, the script i was using tries to install the efi. i'm doing it headless
[16:21] <ruser> I've seen that article but becuase no X/wayland can't use that. I guess I can try to get an iso
[16:21] <ruser> actually that's not a bad idea
[16:22] <ruser> I am already running on iso :)
[16:44] <Apachez> whats your experience of compressed kernel modules and xv vs zstd for that?
[16:47] <rbox> "experience"?
[16:49] <Apachez> well I have seen that ubuntu lately defaults to zstd but any drawback with either except that xz takes slightly longer to compress but will bring smaller file too ?
[16:50] <rbox> what kind of drawback would there be besides time and size
[16:50] <rbox> lol
[16:50] <Apachez> well functionallity as in why wasnt the kernel modules compressed already years ago in ubuntu by default?
[16:51] <rbox> why wasn't <insert random thing that wasn't done this way before>
[16:51] <rbox> could be said about lots of things
[16:51] <Apachez> obviously there is some kind of drawback otherwise it would already been enabled years ago
[16:51] <tomreyn> Apachez: they were, though
[16:52] <tomreyn> compression has been in place for a long time
[16:52] <Apachez> not as it seems for the kernel modules in ubuntu
[16:52] <rbox> the drawback is that it takes time to decompress
[16:52] <tomreyn> it just shifted between compression formats
[16:52] <Apachez> linux kernel itself have had that support for the past 25 years or so but linux kernel in ubuntu have had that enabled only for the past year or so
[16:53] <tomreyn> whoops, sorry, i didn't notice 'modules'
[16:53] <tomreyn> my question would then be: how long has there been support for compressing modules?
[16:53] <Apachez> +25 years
[16:53] <tomreyn> or decompressing at runtime rather
[16:54] <tomreyn> ok, no clue then
[16:56] <tomreyn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/1932329 might have some
[16:56] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1932329 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Focal) "Support compressed kernel modules in initramfs-tools and kernel" [Undecided, New]
[16:57] <tomreyn> i found this with a web search for "ubuntu compressed modules"
[17:03] <oerheks> points to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/2028568
[17:03] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2028568 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ship kernel modules Zstd compressed" [Undecided, Fix Released]
[17:03] <oerheks> 6.5.0-5.5
[17:07] <oerheks> does secureboot support compressed signed modules?
[17:26] <Apachez> how come "do-release-upgrade -c" says "No new release found." ?
[17:26] <Apachez> I am at 23.04 and wanted to upgrade into 23.10
[17:26] <oerheks> use -d development
[17:27] <oerheks> i would wait for the release upgradepath
[17:33] <Guest7471> ubuntu
[17:37] <oerheks> https://www.bing.com/search?q=ubuntu&first=1
[17:39] <Apachez> yeah found out at https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/176mchk/2310_update_not_showing_up/
[17:39] <Apachez> seems like it might take another 1-2 weeks before the update files are released
[17:41] <Eickmeyer> There is literally just one blocking bug to get fixed before upgrades are enabled, but it requires 24.04 development to completely open first due to the nature of the bug.
[17:44] <Apachez> what kind of bug is that?
[17:46] <Eickmeyer> One where fonts can get corrupted during upgrade.
[17:47] <Apachez> any manual fix for that?
[17:47] <Apachez> like remove some fontcache?
[17:48] <ravage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/2034986
[17:48] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2034986 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Mantic) "some text became unreadable during a distribution upgrade" [Critical, In Progress]
[17:48] <Eickmeyer> There's no workaround if it happens and the effects are temporary, but I won't link the bug report here because that's when we get "when will this be fixed" comments and I'd rather the devs don't have to deal with that when it's a "Critical" level bug to begin with.
[17:48] <Eickmeyer> Dangit, ravage....
[17:49] <ravage> :)
[17:49] <Eickmeyer> Ok, now that it's here, please don't comment.
[17:49] <Apachez> but if its critical shouldnt the 23.10 be removed from devel metafiles then until thats fixed?
[17:49] <gordonjcp> I always love seeing stuff like "24.04" and I always want to install like two versions ahead
[17:49] <gordonjcp> and I do
[17:49] <gordonjcp> and I always regret it, but just for a moment it feels like the future
[17:50] <ravage> Apachez: -d is to test upgrades. it is not intended to be used by normal users. thats why it is called "development"
[17:50] <Eickmeyer> Apachez: No, because the .iso releases aren't affected.
[17:50] <Apachez> just wait until linux 10.x arrives, will that be named Linux X ? ;)
[17:50] <Eickmeyer> Apachez: That's not how it works.
[17:50] <Apachez> ravage: the mantic wikipage at ubuntu.com says to use -d so there is that
[17:51] <Apachez> ahh well will see within an hour or so how broken 23.10 is :)
[17:51] <Eickmeyer> Apachez: Yes, but that's "at your own risk."
[17:51] <oerheks> .. as i told you, unless you can wait
[17:51] <Eickmeyer> No support will be given here for upgrades done with "-d", meaning all upgrades to 23.10 at this point.
[17:51] <Apachez> everything involing ubuntu is "at your own risk" ;)
[17:52] <Eickmeyer> Apachez: Right, but you also give up community support too
[17:52] <ravage> life is at your own risk too
[17:53] <oerheks> one must have a reason to do -d or the use of mainline ppa.
[17:53] <Apachez> its fairly random how that community support works in reality
[17:53] <Eickmeyer> Then why are you here? This is a community support channel.
[17:53] <Apachez> Im here for various reasons, why are you here?
[17:54] <oerheks> random .. lolz
[17:54] <Eickmeyer> 🤦
[17:54] <Eickmeyer> Only support is on-topic here.
[17:54] <Apachez> I have no idea what that emoji means, you are here for a haircut?
[17:55] <Eickmeyer> That was a facepalm. This is a community support channel. Do you need anything else, Apachez?
[17:55] <Apachez> didnt know facepalms are on-topic in here but thanks, good to know
[17:56] <Eickmeyer> !guidelines | Apachez: trolling is not allowed
[17:57] <Apachez> but your trolling is ok?
[17:57] <Eickmeyer> Show me where I was trolling.
[17:57] <JanC> Apachez: if you upgrade now, problems you see are not something people will be able/willing to reproduce, so you will be on your own because of that alone...
[17:57] <Apachez> !guidelines | Eickmeyer: facepalms and emojis are not allowed
[17:58] <Apachez> JanC: yeah, thats how things usually turns out
[17:58] <Eickmeyer> There is nothing in the guidelines that says that, Apachez.
[17:59] <Apachez> hoping to verify if that sidebar in gnome missing newly started icons from apps are fixed in upcoming 23.10 or if that bug remains as it showed up in 23.04
[18:00] <Apachez> after a few days of uptime when you start a new app it wont show up in the sidebar as running but its visible through alt+tab, anyone else noticed this in 23.04 ?
[18:41] <Apachez> "iTrusChina" as installed ca-certificate through 23.10... what could possibly go wrong?
[18:43] <Apachez> installing snap firmware-updater takes ages
[18:43] <ravage> !ot | Apachez
[18:44] <Apachez> anyone who knows why "Installing snap firmware-updater" takes long time ?
[18:44] <ravage> There is #ubuntu-discuss for Ubuntu related discussions
[18:51] <Apachez> was asking a support question but I just proven my point
[18:52] <ravage> If you think this is a bug use https://github.com/canonical/firmware-updater/issues
[19:07] <marc_> hey
[19:56] <ruser> ??? /mnt/usr/bin/bash: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object.... chroot: failed to run command ‘/usr/bin/bash’: No such file or directory
[19:56] <ruser> lib lib53 deps?
[19:56] <ruser> lib64*
[20:00] <Apachez> Found a funny bug, dunno if thats reported yet? When /org/gnome/shell/extensions/dash-to-dock/animate-show-apps is disabled the app list wont show up at all when click on "show apps" icon in the dock in 23.10. Enabling animation makes the "show apps" work again (it has always been disabled in my ubuntu installations previously).
[20:00] <Apachez> but thats about it... some funny characters during install but they were manageable enough to complete the installation - gone after reboot
[20:00] <Apachez> so overall (for now) upgrading to 23.10 went without too many issues
[20:02] <Apachez> and for those of you running virtualbox from oracle, use the ubuntu edition instead - since the 7.10 available from virtualbox.org is for jammy which no longer works in mantic (you will see funny out of range errors during shutdown and boot referencing /tmp/vbox.0/...)
[20:04] <ruser> I don't get it... https://termbin.com/ncji
[20:07] <FKAShinobi> Can the following file name expansion be used across a pipe? {}
[20:07] <ruser> FKAShinobi: you can try using shellcheck
[20:08] <FKAShinobi> fdfind -t f -e flac -x flac -cd "{}" | lame -b 320 "{/.}.mp3" doesn't recognize it
[20:08] <FKAShinobi> ruser: is that a package?
[20:08] <ruser> FKAShinobi: https://linuxcommandlibrary.com/man/shellcheck
[20:08] <ruser> FKAShinobi:  yes it is
[20:17] <sysdip> Having some workflow / behavior issues. On Ubuntu 43.10, gnome-shell v45. Notable extensions would be Space Bar (i3wm styled workspace switcher), Dash To Panel, and Arc Menu.
[20:17] <rbox> huh?
[20:19] <sysdip> The expected behavior (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Gnome should default to open applications (in this case, launched via Arc Menu) to the currently active workspace. This is not the case for me. It seems like it works sporadically, certain applications will always open under the correct workspace / display that is active, however others do
[20:19] <sysdip> not, or will "remember" their last position even if completely closed.
[20:20] <sysdip> E.g. display 1 is active. "gnome settings" opens on display 1. Vice verse if display 2 is active. This behavior does not apply to all applications.
[20:37] <Apachez> tried to reinstall virtualbox from ubuntu repo and reboot but still get:
[20:37] <Apachez> [    6.085418] UBSAN: array-index-out-of-bounds in /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/7.0.10/build/vboxdrv/SUPDrvGip.c:4169:42
[20:37] <Apachez> [    6.085472] index 2 is out of range for type 'SUPGIPCPU [1]'
[20:37] <Apachez> but my vm's seems to work without issues so the above is the only remaining issue I got with upgrade into 23.10 in case somebody cares ;)
[20:39] <tomreyn> Apachez: if you're looking for responses to what yu post here, it will be tremendously helpful not to quit within 2 minutes of posting about it
[20:40] <tomreyn> (and please use a pastebin such as dpaste.com for anything above a single line)
[20:43] <rfm> Apachez, vbox 7.0.10 had some known problems with linux 6.5.  vbox 7.0.12 had some fixes. 7.0.12 is on the virtualbox.org site, removing the ubuntu package and installing from there could help (but you´d /join #vbox for help, not here)
[20:45] <tomreyn> which is on oftc, right?
[20:46] <tomreyn> oh there's one here as well
[20:47] <rfm> the "official" #vbox is on OFTC, but the one here seems to get just as much traffic and participation from the developers..   I'm always in both
[20:51] <Apachez> https://pastebin.com/R4qW8Cru
[20:52] <Apachez> rfm: problem is that virtualbox.org doesnt have any ubuntu package for mantic, latest is for jammy (which is 20.04 LTS or something)
[20:52] <Apachez> tomreyn: as I posted previously I was in the process of upgrading from 23.04 to 23.10 :)
[20:53] <tomreyn> many folks have more than one computer these days.
[20:53] <Apachez> sure but only one for irc :)
[20:54] <Apachez> the errors also occured with the jammy packages from virtualbox.org and 7.0.12 (which is why I first tried to switch to the package provided by ubuntu and then reinstall that but same errors)
[20:54] <Apachez> but vm guests runs fine so I dunno
[20:55] <Apachez> quick google search gives zero hits for pages but 5 hits for pictures which are photos of these errors and first posted online 5-6 days ago
[20:57] <rfm> Apachez: other people are reporting that .12 didn't fix it..https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=110315
[20:59] <rfm> Apachez, and there's a bug (but no action on it yet) https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/21877
[20:59] -ubottu:#ubuntu- www.virtualbox.org ticket 21877 in other "UBSAN errors with Kernel 6.5" [New]
[21:02] <lubuntu> merhaba
[21:03] <tomreyn> hi
[21:06] <Apachez> rfm: thanks, yeah I can confirm that 7.0.12 didnt help
[21:11] <Apachez> hard to tell if 23.10 is faster than 23.04 or just placebo, but it at least doesnt feel slower :)
[23:12] <LordDragon> hey all
[23:13] <LordDragon> so I have a VM here on my local machine that i just upgraded the host software on
[23:13] <LordDragon> i think its changed encryption or something because my admin password no longer allows me to login
[23:13] <LordDragon> since i have local access to the VM, is there a way to forceably reset the root password without losing my whole setup?
[23:18] <ravage> LordDragon: which part includes Ubuntu here?
[23:22] <LordDragon> ravage: the guest OS im trying to reset root passwd for is ubuntu server 22.xx
[23:23] <ravage> https://www.maketecheasier.com/reset-root-password-linux/
[23:27] <LordDragon> ravage: thank you! i have a root shell now :)


 Okay great. Are you in the Spanish group btw?
[00:01] <tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Álvarez> Yeah
 I apologize for the inconvenience caused. I'm going to format it whole
 @Antonio Izquierdo Álvarez, Still better to play around with 15.04. Oops. There is no OP3 port yet. Marius is working on one though
 @Ricardo, No inconvenience at all. It was fun! As always, we learned something new
 con este comando se borra entero?
 @Antonio Izquierdo Álvarez, Have you got any experience of porting?
 with this command is it deleted?
 sudo ubuntu-device-flash —server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch —device=krillin —channel=ubports-touch/15.04/rc —fastboot —wipe
[00:04] <tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Álvarez> @Stereofont, Nope 😓 but how can I learn?
[00:06] <tgBot> <Antonio Izquierdo Álvarez> I have a lot of desire and free time, but how can I start?🤷♂
 @Ricardo, If you already have ubports recovery, then boot into recovery and use the command without the `--fastboot` option ?
 https://devices.ubports.com/#/krillin
 I thought you had an N7?
 @Antonio Izquierdo Álvarez, Join the welcome room link in the welcome link I sent earlier
 ok
 @Crash_Burn, OP3
 @Crash_Burn, I don't think we ever established which device
 krillian/ BQ e4.5
 it is already solved.formatted and again in Spanish
 🎂
 Is that good or bad?
 Muy mal
 @Ricardo, 👍🏼
 @dohbee, i hv to agree, it is very geographic. in where i am its marginal for example.
 (Photo, 1280x694) https://irc.ubports.com/sHINV5C7/file_2843.jpg
 yeah, weibo/wechat is the big thing in chinese region
 @dohbee, emails+PGP (and possibly other encryption layerd on top). … People say they want security but at the end of the day the do not. By general rule ppl always choose convenience over security.
 if you can't make security convenient, you shouldn't be arguing for security :)
 @dohbee, supposedly quantum encryption will be new edge fpr uneavsdropable communications.
 quantum encryption by definition doesn't exist
 schroedinger's encryption
 your data is both encrypted, and not, simultaneously, and always
 @dohbee, i am not sold by this one. I consider corporate/business environment for a moment. I set systems for security and people are bothered by needing to use passwords of a certain minimum difficulty. They would want to have no password or password like "12345677".  … Perhaps making fingerprint scanners instead of need for typing passwords would be considerably more convinient for them. But then you compromise privacy. I suppose u could go
[02:17] <tgBot> all that rationale that your fingerprint is not stored anywhere only some sort of single directional hash. That is what Apple and others do for their mobile phone fingerprint readers. Your call. I think that security/privacy/convenice is a trade-off.
 it's not a trade-off. if security isn't built for humans, it's not going to work
 for example, PGP
 great idea, horrible implementation
 for security to work, you must design for the weakest link
 ie, humans
 @dohbee, i guess i was not very thoughtful about precise ways of calling thinks properly. I am not pretending to be very familiar with quantum physics and applications of it.  … I meant quantum based communication. not encryption. One where eavsdropping can be detected.
 @dohbee, i probably can only be convinced to this if i see it. and it's been long time, yet no proof on concept. i remain in my opinion about tradeoff. the thing about making it human friendly is just theoretical for me because i am not seeing it happen.
 Signal.
 humans are lazy; not in the sense that we don't do work, but in the sense that we optimize that work
 lot of times ppl buy into buzz words about security but then they compromise it by ignorant choices to lean toward convenience instead.
 so if you have password rules, you get the worst passwords which fit those rules
 @dohbee, i agree with this
 You download the app, it texts you, you are now using Signal for all of your contacts with Signal.
 and people writing down stupid combinations of things to meet those rules, which reduces security
 if your opsec is awful, your infosec is going to be awful
 @UniversalSuperBox, i literally only have like 2 contacts that actually use signal
 @dohbee, with this onw i dont agree however. i cant agree that a combination of lo/hi case letters, digits and special symbols will decrease security comparing against 12345678 passwords. or 88888888 in case of Chinese people.
 and one of them was like "oh wow, someone else actually uses signal!" when i sent them a message
 well disagree all you want
 meanwhile, governments access all the data :)
 by which i mean, US/RU/CN governments
 maybe UK, but meh
 also, remember to eat ```before``` you drink, kids
 damnit
 i hate telegram
 sigh
 @dohbee, there is relation but not causation.  … password is supposed to protect against brute force (password guessing) access. in which case complexity of password works in favor of difficulty of anauthorized access. When governments access your data as you refered to, o dont think they depend on brute forcing your passwords anyways. unless u have exceptionally weak password then their dictionary attack could succeed. Rather they gain acces
[02:29] <tgBot> other means.
 brute force is irrelevant if the hash is already cracked
 "12345678" is not more secure than "correct horse battery staple" for example
 anyway, you're getting pretty divergent now
 @dohbee, ah yes, one password having multiple twin brothers u didnt lnow about. … Not all passwords rely on hashes.
 and guessing password instead of hash on a weak password is added value to one who wants to compromise it.
 wow, i just realized this beer has flower petals in it
 sadly not blue lotus though
 anyway, humans are weak link. if you can't account for that in design of an encryption technology, then the design is flawed.
 ∎
 on the other hand, if this is blue lotus, i'm going to have some amazing dreams tonight
 oh i account for it. i just dont care for their convenience as much as for the security standards. Since i don't have to care and they have to comply so i've further problem with it.
 also i dont care about security so much in this chat. when i do i use my other phone. black phone. no whatsapp telegram matrix or signal.
[02:50] <tgBot> Distanger was added by: Distanger
 *I've no further problem with it.
 ok. so you're part of the problem, and you're ok with that.
 funny thing to me is that you are big on words while you talk like someone who repeats overheard bits from here and there. like the part about hashes. Did you calculatw has yourself like ever? it is far easier to use dictionary to break 12345678 password than to calculate hash for it. … know that i am taking you only half seriously. your big ego does not convince me. but that is OT.
 *calculate hash as find passwors hash not calculate md5 of something at all ;)
 Alright, this isn't going anywhere. Can you two please discuss with understanding of each other or not at all?
 And, uh, welcome @Distanger! You've found us at a very interesting time.
 3am my time
 6 AM here
 @UniversalSuperBox, The best possible time!  Ubuntu Touch on quantum computers!! Get your qubits ready ;)
 Loo
 Quantum computers are less than calculators at this point
 Unlike binary computers no one invented all the needed useful algorithms before they were invented
 Binary computers were a topic of interest among mathematicians long before we knew how to make them
 Quantum computers lack basic functionality because until 10 years ago we didn't know how they might theoretically work
 We had many models of quantum computers possibilities and only recently have we realized what a 3 state bit is and we don't really know how to make software with 3 state bit computers
 @Xorpad, yeah we dont hv a 3 state bit based OS, we need to ivent logics, logical gates, cpu registers etc
 Yeah. When binary computers were invented mathematicians already had very complex and many algorithms because they predicted the invention of binary computers long before we had them
 theoretical computers existed long before harware implementation did
 entire boolean logic and theoretical logical gates and state machines like DAS all existed pretty early
 in a way 3 state logics might never become practical in some aspects of what we use computers for. There are things that we need to be deterministic to either true or false. When added a 3rd state, it beats some of the purposes on some design. A 3 state system would then need to emulate a 2 state logic. quantum computong is yet another buzzword, lots of things that were called quantum computers were not in fact quantum computers. im interested
[05:34] <tgBot> first (can be theoretical) OS built in 3 state logics.
 Ubuntu Touch is still official name for the OS now that UBports took over?
 @dohbee, Wechat has an app api though, better than our western overlords in that regard
 Japan Korea and Taiwan it is Line
 I want to say the only thing in China
 @dohbee, this
 and qq, still
 I use wechat to search for clothings albums 😂
 so when I know what to order for myself
 @vanyasem, I agree ☝
 If UBp have a Sina Weibo,that will great
 Is there a js/json wechat api?
 @samzn, I have Wechat,usually almost Chinese are  used Wechat
 Yeah I'm aware
 China have too much peoples
 I could make a wechat app, it might turn a lot of people to the platform
 It's more viable than making a WhatsApp application
 I'd only implement basic chat though, no fancy features the usual app provides
 If you can open China’s door, I am sure here  will add three zeros to the current 1044
 China now has a population of 1.4 billion
 in other words if you invite china to this supergroup the language will become Chinese in here
[07:36] <tgBot> Oleksandr was added by: Oleksandr
 @Oleksandr, Hello Oleksandr and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 if you want to keep English invite India
 Not at all
 @KrisJacewicz, Hey, it's only a matter of time until we are ruled by our Chinese overlords
 India isn't a good market
 @KrisJacewicz, I hope so 😂
 @samzn, why do you reckon that??
 @Tina119, :D
 Chinese group will supergroup,lol😂😂😂
 http://open.wechat.com/
 Good guy tencent
 We would never have something like this from GOOG or FB
 Seems there's no chat SDK though
 @samzn, The Chinese government has blocked Facebook, YouTube, sets a Google
 What I mean is that they keep a tight closed garden to their platforms
 You can't expand much upon their products
 China government is smart 👍
 It's very protectionist, which isn't very great
 But they managed to deliver it nicely to the internal market
 Now everyone knows that China is the largest market in the world
 https://github.com/node-webot/wechat-api can you translate this and see if there's any mention of using this for logging in & sending messages
 As a normal client
 They are selective and not completely closed
 @Tina119, this is a knife with both edges sharp though. While protecting CHinese market from non-CHinese companies, there is also not enough competition, so the Chinese businesed get it and have not much reason to make things better without competition. FOr example baidu maps is awful to use if you ever used google maps. But they have no competition at all, so they have no incentive to make things better either. Some businesses have more ambiti
[07:48] <tgBot> than others, but competition is what makes things better for the end users.
 @KrisJacewicz, 👍👍
 Chinese mobile market has no reliance on google though
 From my view every phone manufacturer does it's own thing there
 Yes
 Which seems like a good territory for foss mobiles
 @samzn, What does this api provide tina
 They broken About Google anything
 @samzn, I don’t understand
 Does that link specify anything about using it like a wechat client for sending messages? Or just interfacing with an existing client like the oficial api?
 @samzn, your data is safe from Google. Instead Chinese government has access to all of the data and more of it thanwhat google has access to. Nothng in CHina ets millions of users without an obvious back access for the government. … China is cashless economy right now. Wechat pays for everything. You are safe from Google. But Chinese government knows everything you do, places you go, with who. what do you buy, where and when, whether for your
[07:55] <tgBot> or mistress, who you talk to and what do you say. … And now they are gamifying people snitching on one another with the good citizen rank system. … But you are safe from google in CHina, and that's the most important ight ;)
 @KrisJacewicz, Not too different from our corporativist system tbh
 @samzn, I'm just a user. I'm not a software engineer，so I can’t understand
 It's not as bad as it could be though, we avoided Hillary
 @samzn, if you se no difference then it only means you don't see it.
 @Tina119, Ah that's fine, I will try to translate at work
 @samzn, US avoided Hillary. The world is bigger.
 I think that in CHina people who would geninely have interest in UT is still a small niche, like everywhere else in the world. … However, a small niche in CHina translates to a big number of people. Same in India for example.
 @KrisJacewicz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NyFRIgulPo  and https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html are good talks on the subjects
 So to have a niche n China or/and India focused and interested in UT, would be a big asset in terms of head count
 @samzn, are you trying to discredit critique of one party by diverting to a critique of another one??
 What I mean is that the behaviour of Chinese Gvt & Tencent towards chinese people is similar to US Giants & US Institutions towards people in the west
 Difference one isnt a single entity
 one thing that I do notice though, is that while this group is 1k members, considered small by some standards, it is composed of people who often went out of their way to be somehow related to Ubuntu Touch. Maybe the nuber of use here is not overwhelming, but I dare to suspect that there are no random people here (random as in not sure how they ended up in this group).  … I don't know we can grow this gorup whioe also keeping members very cle
[08:04] <tgBot> their focus on the platform.  … To be fair, I also don't know if we should cosider that a goal. …  One being that China government does not try to hide its intentions, or fool people into thinking they aren't doing what they are doing. In this, CHinese gvernment might be the least hypocritical of all of these so called parties.
 when i think what might be taken an advantage of in a small sized community, it is perhaps a very proactive spirit of the members.  … Whatdo you guys think can be other advantage?
 Unlike whatsapp, messenger, allo, etc which is a completely closed platform
 But back to the main point, if wechat has a decent api I could make an app that could bring people in, maybe even get a few bucks from donations or some nonintrusive monetization way in the app
 Christ, they threaten to sue people who work for free to deliver access to their services
 @KrisJacewicz, This is not a battlefield. Calm down，Kris😂😂
 @Tina119, but I'm calm
 abut to board a plane to China right now, will be use wechat hapily while there and will be spending my days free of google :(
 @KrisJacewicz, Right now?
 @samzn, if you can go out of your way to make integration with wechat, I think there will centainly be a value coming from it. Whether or not a monetary one, I don't know.
 @Tina119, yes
 @KrisJacewicz, Great
 Have a good flight :)
 so my access to tlegram and this group will get more troublesome over next few days
 @samzn, thnak you, appreciate
 @KrisJacewicz, Enjoying your flight
 I think china is fine with tg
 @Tina119, :)
 @samzn, it is very random
 definitely not smooth
 @samzn, Nope
 I used to use vpn from my company but now China made vpns much less easy to use as well. And it's oficially announced that in 2018 it will only become more difficult to use them.
 You can’t use th
 @KrisJacewicz, Yes,👍
 at random times messages will go thru from telegram, and also Line. But most of the time no.
 At college I ssh tunnel everything to my home server at port 80
 bit torrent based browsers still work if you use meeks
 @KrisJacewicz, I often used  van
 @samzn, well, China has great plans for making vpn dofficult to achieve in 2018, even if you mask your port
 time to board, take care guys, and @samzn if you were serious abt making wechat integration, it's probably a great idea to follow up n.
[08:54] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Someone has problem with oneplusone camera flash? Mine doesn't light during having photos
 Rocco 3 Do you have the option to toggle it in the camera app?
[09:11] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Yes, I have
 @Flohack, The crypto, yeah. But they disable key verification and key change warnings by default for convenience, so they removed authentication and make it trivial to MitM. Still better than Telegram though, sadly
 Hmm thats mean that the cmera app sees the interface do you have the same issue when filimng videos?
 @Distanger, Hello Disctanger and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Is there any way to change the icons in the Ubuntu touch ?
 @Tina119, Hypergroup 😉
 @onajjar, Yes. I just did it. Install Falcon then add a couple of icon sets
 @Stereofont, Thank You !
 (Sticker, 507x512) https://irc.ubports.com/DMcLurxS/file_2844.webp
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/qn2um2FW/file_2846.jpg
 The other is Numix
 @Stereofont, I like numix much ;)
 @Stereofont, wow!
 @Stereofont, I guess so ....I hope so..... I think so....😂😂😂😂
 @onajjar, Me too
 @samzn, They all just ship their own forks of Android. There are a lot who just ship stock Android 4.4 on old hardware in really cheap phones
 i think wechat is just qq for doing auth/chat
 @samzn, *everybody* who ships a fork of android is dependent on google
 https://www.quora.com/Does-WeChat-have-a-public-API-How-can-I-access-it suggests chat is not open
 @dohbee, Wechat same qq , first qq ,second Wechat, You can register WeChat with QQ number
 @neothethird, Hey hey hey....who’s your Aviva?
 india uses pretty much all the same stuff as us/uk/eu for social networking. sadly, that includes whatsapp :-/
[12:44] <bshah> 'sadly'
[12:44] <bshah> I've total 4 friends on telegram, they signed up and never used it later
[12:44] <bshah> same for signal.. 2 friends
 well same for me
 don't see how that changes the facts
[12:45] <bshah> (sorry, my comment may come as out of context, didn't read full backlog)
[12:45] <bshah> but yes I am agreeing with you on social networking in India
 whatsapp is closed, and aggressively against third party devs
 I got my family on Signal. Wasn't  too hard
 i wonder how many matrix nodes are running in india
 In fact, many Chinese are using telegram,because Wechat and QQ are monitored...
 china is a weird place
 @dohbee, Why? How weird?
 very weird, in many ways
 Saying....
 like, apparently banning time travel theme
 @dohbee, I guess you are a India
 no
 @dohbee, Where are you from,Rodney😃
 the collective "it's ok that our gov't is oppressive, because they're very open and nice about it" is also kind of weird
 and the propaganda filled tv shows are fun
 us
 I don’t know yet 🙃🙃🙃
 @dohbee, Because China has 5,000 years of history and culture, and the United States has only two hundred years....SO you can't understand it....and you did think weird.... 😂😂😂
 more than 5000, and i can understand the history just fine
[13:08] <bshah> guys, this is going off-topic btw
 @bshah, I agree
 I think it's best not to talk about politics here. It's not about UT
 @Tina119, +1
 anyway, wechat is not open on chat side
 @Stereofont, 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
 and even if it was, i don't think it would get us many chinese users flocking to ubports
 ubuntu doesn't comply with chinese smartphone os regulations
 Is that why meizu only sold the international versions with UT then?
 @dohbee, Ah....
 There is a further point that bloatware seems to be embraced in China. Minimalism doesn't seem to have any traction there
 i don't think that's true
 Telegram
 Very leggy today
 no more so than anywhere else, anyway
 For sure bloatware has a massive following in the west too. There is a niche though that strongly values the austere
 i would hardly call ubuntu a minimalist phone, though
 In terms of UI it is a lot less busy
 Functionality is a different matter for sure
 you should have tried the retail images then; they had a lot more stuff installed by default
 and most apps are still webapps after all, and most web sites are far from minimal
 anyway, it is irrelevant
 that aspect has very little to do with increasing market share, in china, or anywhere
[13:25] <tgBot> lungwitz was added by: lungwitz
 It worked for early Mac
 i do wish the colors weren't so much iOS though
 @lungwitz, Hello Klaus and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 btw Klaus there is also a German language group, if you are interested
 @Stereofont, Thanks!
 @Stereofont, To your surprise, I'm from Argentina and my available languages (?) are Spanish and English
 Thanks anyway
 @lungwitz, BsAs?
 I was only 85% certain 😂 There is also a Spanish language group
 Yep
 @Stereofont, Hahaha
 awesome
 i guess ubports_ES is more spain spanish though?
 The idea is to go with language themes rather than a national theme but that is an ideal, not necessarily a reality
 sure
 @lungwitz, Buenos días. Venite al grupo en español
 @klaus
 https://t.me/UBPorts_ES
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/hjUiTuKN/file_2847
 @dohbee you might know this one. If i start a subprocess in an app does it inherit the same confinement as the parent process or would i need to start the subprocess with `aa-exec-click` to ensure it has the same confinement?
 @DanChapman, children are in the parent's cgroup and under the same confinement and lifecycle requirements
 that's how it's supposed to be, anyway
 brilliant, thanks!
 @Stereofont, Yes, but I like being in an English speaking group anyway
 Cool. You can of course be in both 👍
 (:
[15:02] <tgBot> Mustafa Dagdelen was added by: Mustafa Dagdelen
 Hello Mustafa and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Tina119, mao zedong killed all that culture. Now China is trying to dig some of it back up.
[15:06] <tgBot> <Mustafa Dagdelen> @Crash_Burn, Thank you @Crash_Burn and Hello everyone
 @Stereofont, much less complete
 @Mustafa Dagdelen, Hi Mustafa.  Welcome!
 @Mustafa Dagdelen, If you would like intro/assistance you can use the Welcome Room link
 oh why does ubports want to override the recovery?
 quick question, how many fulltime engineers does ubports have now?
 @profetik777, howdy!  what does 'engineer' mean?  do you mean people who are engineers for their full time job and enjoy being part of UBports?
 I'm a full time UBports Audio Engineer.  Do I count?
 @profetik777, It would be very easy to be misled by a simplistic answer to what you ask. Why do you think "fulltime engineers" is a useful measure?
 for now he only asked a question. a question is nor good nor bad. Lets wait what conclusions he draws from the answer. i am also curious anyways.
 althoug " full time engineers being part of UBports" does not mean "engineers working on UBports full time". Can be engineers who work full time somewhere else and also are part of UBports when time permits :D
 It's easier how many people are full time in UBports?
 Nope, answering a question meaningfully needs context. Both to understand the question and to ensure the answer is useful.
 ah sorry, software developers working full time on ubports
 full -time and/or full-time paid
 @wayneoutthere you always count no matter what...lol
 For example, suppose some phone company wants to be sure that UBports is "adequately supported" to incorporate in a product. The number of "fulltime engineers" is a bad measure as it badly underestimates the support available.
 @KrisJacewicz, I want to KICK  your ass……kris💩💩
 I read all this at once and my face was like WTF?
 Hahah
 @profetik777, As-in developers who are paid from community donations and have a long-term contract? Only one. But we and our sponsors hire people for shorter periods of time to work on specific tasks regularly. Also, we have loads of community devs, of course.
[16:25] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Kris, how can launch Lazarus IDE from my PC command line? All is installed properly
 But i agree with what Alan said, full-time employees is not a good measure of success and/or level of support
 @lungwitz, yes, sometimes the supergroup goes 'super'.  For example we have discussions of full time engineers mixed in with sensitive Chinese culture talk.  Fun for the whole family!
 @neothethird, the measure of success is whether or not we are moving forward and breaking ground.  If you measured our success per dollar spent we would be featured in Fortune 500
 I know full time people who sit in their chair and pick their buttocks from 9 to 5
 but wait! there's more from wayne... … There are also full time 'people' who should be doing their day jobs but who end up doing UBports full time!  … ... like me :(
 @wayneoutthere, 😂😂
 @Rocco 3, if u used updated installer script the the command over ssh is start-lazarus … if you used previous i staller (before yesterday) then the command is full path: … ~/.local/lazfpc4ut/fpc3/lazfpc3
 updated installer sets path in .bash_profile so without sudo it makes start-lazarus command global. But only over ssh because UT Terminal app ignores .bash_profile (idk why)
 While we can all site scenarios and cases where full time software devs are not productive etc., the question is really asking about Ubports specifically...not from the perspective of some entity who would use only 1 measure of success evaluating whether or not something is "worthy" of partnership, etc... which by the way,  I do not think any organization would ever do (base it on 1 measure).
 @Rocco 3, you will aslo want to know how to make the app scale up to full screen. bu default it is tiny. PM me and i ll tell u everything u need to know. some time this or next week will update wiki with demos.
 I recall there was a desire of having more than one full time dev from Marius himself, and curious if that is a goal that ubports is shooting for?
 aside from the pros and cons of measurements etc etc.
 We could probably afford it, but at the moment that's not our biggest concern
 also, we want to wait until all our paperwork for setting up the foundation is done
 because that will make hirering easier
 @neothethird, Ah, noted.
 Setting up the foundation is fundamental.
 it's in progress, but german beaurocracy takes forever
 @neothethird, we dont know why the question was asked. we just assume why. Maybe it was just out of curiosity. i also agree that small number of full time people in UBports means it is badly supported. Well motivated people can do great job even in less than full time hour workday. Peraonally i am VERY impressed how UBports is happening. The website is beautiful. The GUI installer and custom images are beautiful. The work is organized and thing
[16:47] <tgBot> are happening. Feedback is listened to and addressed. I think it is being carried out in a way more proffessional way than you would expect by looking at available resources. Quite spectacular if you ask me.
 *does NOT mean it is badly supported
 maybe it is because it is text form, i find a hint of defensiveness, esp. since no one here claimed it was badly supported in any shape or form.
 it was a pure question.
 out of curiousity, if that needs confirming.
 @profetik777, +1
 @profetik777, ok, sorry about that, wasn't intended that way. I know you're a good guy, given your history with the project i'm happy to see you here again now
 thank @neothethird
 The about question of support was mine. But only as a hypothetical to illustrate why the context of the question matters.
 and never stopped my monthly giving bc i totally believe in the importance :D :D :D
 despites patreon's weird rule change 😐
 Thanks, that's much appreciated
 If you want to get away from patreon, we also have liberapay now, their fees are a little lower
 cool ill have to check it out
 https://liberapay.com/UBports
 @alan_griffiths, i understand it was hypothetical and i dont want to drain it or anything but just a second thought a propos. If someone really asked that question in a context u used as an example, why not to openly andnproudly admit that the number is very low. Would that not be very meaningful as in: hey look how great job we do with so little resources, and understand how amazing we will become once resources grow.
 @profetik777, it's weekly though, so be careful :P
 what would everyone here recomend as the first programming language to learn with the reasoning behind that decision as many say one or the other but not why for example some say pYthon some say C annd some say Java but the thing missing is the reasoning behind it
 i guess if i was looking as an angel investor on the current work of ubports team i would rate it as solid!
 @XavierXX, i would recommend object pascal because it is much easier to learn, and easier to read than c-like languages, and because your salary is likely to be higher than with most popular languages. Although it may take longer to find job because there are fewer listings. You can uae free and open source compiler and IDE to target all popular and leaa popular platforms and all the things you learn you can also use later on in other languages
 but you wont be able to write windows drivers or linux kernel modules aith it. otherwise anything else is fine.
 @XavierXX, I think you'll get all of those answers here.
 @XavierXX, Different programming languages address different types of problem. I'd recommend one that supports the type of work the student is motivated by. What sort of programming interests you?
 @alan_griffiths, a great answer much better than mine!
 @XavierXX, With python, javascript and some dialect of c (in that order) you'll be able to do almost anything. Number one priority when learning in your free time should be, that its a language that is fun for you to work with and that can be used in an area you're interested in.
 @XavierXX, English :)
 @dohbee, lol
 i am quite intrested in security but i am also quite intrested in being able to build my own tools
 I'm personally drawn to Python due to its popularity and how easy it is to get most simple tasks done (especially commandline tools). Other people will give you a lot of different answers.
 @neothethird, Ummmm.... YAY! :D
 I always scour Jan's posts for secret nuggest of information!
 What do you mean by "security"?  Security? That can be anything
 @UniversalSuperBox, There's a lot of Python syntax that many people will find upsetting, but I find really nice to write. For example, the other day I wrote: … ```if "stuff" not in list and "other stuff" not in list: …     things to do```
 @wayneoutthere, 😂
 @wayneoutthere, ewwww 🙊
 but i think the most important thing for me would be to be able to learn a language that would learn me important aspects in programming that would also be usefull in other languages
 Each language will have slightly different names for things, but most C-based languages (read: pretty much all of them) will have the same concepts.
 @UniversalSuperBox, if(stuff not in list)and (othersruff not in list)then … begin … //do some stuff … ens; … //can be valid pascal code that compiles
 @KrisJacewicz, i use python sometimes one thing important to notice is that it's an interpreted language
 Right, it's not compiled so it will be slower than most compiled languages in most tasks.
 that is sometimes what you want and sometimes not what you want
 and i am also quite intrested in embedded hardware
 The most important is a good book to read. The language is not so important.
 @UniversalSuperBox, yes but there are advantages too
 more flexible you can modify program at run-time
 or generate code at run time and execute it
 @XavierXX, There are microcontroller boards that use Python, but the beginning embedded development platforms (Arduino) are heavily C-based
 andnpython has somw really nice librariea easy to use like opencv and other ones i have less or none experience wirh
 also great wrappers around process execution, pipes, even vte, thus great for writting automates scripts that include commands rhat require interactive terminal. for example it is quite easy with python to wrap sudo and things like that.
 Mhmm. Requests, BeautifulSoup, Bottle. All really great libraries to do the most boring tasks available. As well as the `multiprocessing` and `threading` standard libraries
 python is great for confidence building, and then tearing it down when you learn your code is super broken and insecure
 @neothethird, is there a long german compound word for this?  This could be my word-of-the-day
 because you can write stuff totally the wrong way and it will seem like it's working correctly, because it's so dynamic and forgiving
 True.
 i like to mix python with pascal very much especially when dealing with opencv and even sometimes with artificial intwlligence, specifically training artificial synapse networks
 So... does that answer your question at all, @XavierXX ?
 yes thank you all :)
 @wayneoutthere, ahahah
 there used to be a lot more full time engineers. alas
 so that's pretty cool.  I moved my patreon to Libera pay.  It's actually very nice system!  Who set it up for UBports?
 Mario Grips
 that sounds like a nintendo accessory
 trademarks
 http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170914_033821_thumb.png
 too late
 Damn.
 literally what comes up when you search for mario grips on goog images
 It's better with the word 'test' … Mario Grip Test … That's like those machines where you squeeze as hard as you can to impress your girlfriend at a carnival
 @UniversalSuperBox, the only problem is that Gripsmandu has blacklisted me, I think....
 maybe he uses facebook...
 You mean, blocked? :P
 hmm, what exactly is a flatpak
 It's a package
 sort of
 but i mean, the "package" what exactly is it?
 ie, a snap package is a squashfs
 It's ostree thingie
 So there are layers iirc
 so it gets unpacked to somewhere on the filesystem?
 More or less yeah
 ok, so i guess what i want is something somewhere between snaps and clicks/flatpaks
 xkcd standards? 😆
 😛
 Jk
 eh
 though i wonder how well snap scales
[18:28] <tgBot> Aditya Pujari was added by: Aditya Pujari
 after installing Linphone 'flatpak' I also was thinking how similar snaps and flatpaks behave... i don't understand the backend stuff but my first experience with flatpaks was relatively good.
 @Aditya Pujari, Hello Aditya and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Hello Aditya \o/
[18:30] <tgBot> <Aditya Pujari> Ok thanks
 @dohbee, Agreed, esp. when it comes to shared libraries vs sandboxed libraries - who decides what will be shared to avoid redundency and what will be standalone - which was the pitch for snaps
 well i meant a bit more lower level in terms of scaling, than that :)
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/i1ad1Qgu/file_2848.mp4
 oh...nm
 heh
 snaps have some design limitations which make certain things really annoying
 but squashfs is interesting
 Have you checked AppImages? Security is shit for it but concept is awesome
 so snapd is kind of interesting to test out the scalability of squashfs with regard to inode consumption and such
 But still again.. scalability issues are there in AppImages
 ile Subsurface-4.6.4-x86_64.AppImage  … Subsurface-4.6.4-x86_64.AppImage: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1, dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=783ad4749a42b2e09fedee6b1b69accd9e010fe4, stripped
 huh
 anyway, i think appimage has some of the same issues as flatpak there. it's designed to be used for user apps, not system services and such
 For system services, I still prefer deb packages. For user Apps, I like AppImage. I hope AppImage gets a nice cli for it's AppImageHub so you can install AppImages more easily.
 eh, i'm trying to find a way to get rid of debs (or rpms/tgz/aur/whatever)
 I don't think we're going to find one
 well snaps work for that, but snaps aren't designed well for apps
 so yeah, it's pretty apparent that to achieve what i want, i'd have to write another packaging system
 Or you could improve the existing ones so that they'd do what you want
 (the one i wrote previously won't do here either)
 Snaps are interesting, but those interfaces seem too complex for the "casual developers". In this aspect, Flatpaks or even .click packages are more "dev/user friendly"
 @sverzegnassi, +1
 I found flatpaks extremely easy to package my apps with
 and I was never able to figure out snaps
 and clicks are not even a thing to discuss, even a kid would succeed in packaging .click
 Well, I guess we're the winners then, aren't we?
 so much winning
[20:21] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> @KrisJacewicz, Yes, thanks.
 appimage can be "sandoxed" with firejail and they have a nice delta binary update
 with AppImageUpdate
[20:45] <tgBot> ChrisB was added by: ChrisB
 @vanyasem, Interesting. They feel snappy or snap-like on my side so I cant complain about my first flatpak. If they can help roll out convergence and faster it and they has my vote
 @ChrisB, Hello ChrisB and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Fwd from Mattia: Guys, i've got a problem. … Seems that fixupmountpoints script doesn't work
 Fwd from Mattia: + mount /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/userdata /data … mount: mounting /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/userdata on /data failed: No such file or directory … + mount /data/rootfs.img /target … mount: mounting /data/rootfs.img on /target failed: No such file or directory … + mkdir -p /target/data … + mount --bind /data/ /target/data … mount: mounting /data/ on /target/data failed: Invalid argument … + mount … rootfs on /
[21:10] <tgBot> devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,mode=600) … sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime) … proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime) … + DBG_REASON=
 Fwd from Mattia: Everytime i compile halium i get this:
 Fwd from Mattia: halium/hybris-boot/Android.mk:67: ***************** /boot appears to live on /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/boot … halium/hybris-boot/Android.mk:68: ***************** /data appears to live on /dev/block/bootdevice/by-name/userdata
 @Stereofont, Hi Lionelb, thanks and I will have a look
 @ChrisB, If there is anything we can help you with, join the Welcome Room
 @wayneoutthere, Canada's Multiculture is fully reflected here
 what you talkin aboot eh?
 hahaha
 @dohbee, don't turn off the lights 😂