[07:02] <RAOF> Ooof. `snapcraft` is not particularly happy over a slightly-flaky 4G connection!
[08:02] <alan_g[m]> > <@wmww:matrix.org> As I said in the bug... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/7540114be23fbc6e89a1ffb5696aabf816470742)
[08:09] <Saviq> You mean like a new entry point into Frame? Wouldn't it be possible to modify the inhibitor protocol to not require a surface?
[08:10] <Saviq> Also, we have display layouts already, if people want to manually control display state, IMO we should work on a way to switch layouts dynamically
[08:10] <PHB> hi
[08:11] <Saviq> Not to mention we probably want clients (finally) to be able to control the display config live
[08:11] <alan_g[m]> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=timer+socket
[08:12] <PHB> saviq it's your response from my question ?
[08:12] <Saviq> 🤦
[08:13] <Saviq> Hi @PHB, have a look at the logs for what sophie said last night: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2022/08/17/%23mir-server.txt
[08:13] <Saviq> > https://www.amazon.com/s?k=timer+socket
[08:13] <Saviq> But alan_g suggested a hardware approach ;)
[08:14] <PHB> ho thanks, but a .c program is not a shell command:p  it's more"hard" for me :)
[08:16] <Saviq> PHB you could also create a systemd timer that modifies Frame configuration to disable the display(s):
[08:16] <Saviq> https://mir-server.io/docs/ubuntu-frame-configuration-options#heading--snap-configuration-display
[08:16] <PHB> the "best" it's not to have snap program connect to wayland for create virtual activity
[08:17] <PHB> sorry if my question is stupid for you
[08:17] <Saviq> As ogra said last night, it's not stupid :)
[08:17] <Saviq> We're here to help
[08:18] <PHB> Saviq sure but it' relaunch all mir ..
[08:18] <PHB> actually i have simple wifi mouvement sensor
[08:19] <Saviq> OK now I understand the use case better, you want the display to wake when it detects movement from the sensor
[08:20] <PHB> finally the best for my is my screen with ssh / remote command activate screen if people move behind 3 metres before and shutdown 20 sec after
[08:21] <PHB> Saviq exact, we hate power consommation, it's for earth :)
[08:22] <Saviq> Then yeah, I'm afraid we don't have anything like that ready-made. We could think of having a `ubuntu-frame.wake` utility
[08:23] <PHB> Saviq yes i think it's the best solution but nothing is possible actually ?
[08:23] <Saviq> Right now, no, it'd have to be written
[08:24] <PHB> ubuntu-frame.wake, like ubuntu-frame.screenshot ! i love it :)
[08:26] <PHB> .wake idle 30 /  .wake on /  .wake off  /  .wake activity  it's great "simple command line for me:p  )
[08:27] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq added enhancement to [issue #84](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/84): RFC: Add a `ubuntu-frame.wake` utility
[08:27] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq opened [issue #84](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/84): RFC: Add a `ubuntu-frame.wake` utility... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/e51e5137034e9c15628cdd80b3005554ae4b6131)
 "> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=..." <- But alan_g suggested a hardware approach ;)
[08:30] <alan_g[m]> I was reacting to an elaborate piece of bespoke software being suggested.
[08:30] <PHB> thank you Saviq for accept my challenge ^^
[08:32] <alan_g[m]> I know that this is not ideal, but it would be possible to write a script that uses "snap disable/enable".
[08:32] <PHB> lol alan_g[m] hard solution but not really real time:p  i can create /sbin/reboot too or snap restart  xxx :)
[08:33] <PHB> but people have boot screen not message ^^
[08:38] <PHB> if you can i have last question, but i don't really check before, environnement debian / snap / ubuntu frame daemon, on boot i have delay beetween splashscreen and mir (i see login prompt 5 sec) what can i do for don"t see it ?
[08:41] <alan_g[m]> Sorry, we're not experts on the debian boot process
[08:41] <PHB> on ubuntu it's better process ?
[08:42] <PHB> i have pi4, it's history i use raspbian with pinn recovery
[08:43] <PHB> but now maybe i can boot with ubuntu mini on pinn if it's on catalog
[08:48] <alan_g[m]> There's been work on "seamless boot" for Ubuntu Core, but it isn't yet perfect. (And I don't know the status in Debian)
[08:50] <PHB> but it isn't yet perfect --> you have youtube boot process in pi4 with sdcard to see it ?
[08:56] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths assigned AlanGriffiths to [issue #2563](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2563): [Mir 2.9~rc2, miral-kiosk] Failure to display
[09:07] <PHB> so thank you very much Saviq alan_g[m] and sophie-w i am look at statut https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/issues/84:)  and good luck for 2.9 final version ! (i don't know if issue can be implement before 2.9 (i think it's not possible so, i will trying when it's ready to test en edge channel .. so thank you agan for all your hard work it's
[09:07] <PHB> really great web kiosk solution !
 "but it isn't yet perfect --> you..." <- I don't know
[09:14] <alan_g[m]> > trying when it's ready to test en edge channel
[09:14] <alan_g[m]> 2.9 is already on the `beta` channel if you want to try it. It will move to candidate once we've completed initial testing
[09:14] <Saviq> PHB if you're seeing the login screen, that's probably easy to disable (along the lines of `systemctl disable gdm`). But one of the #debian channels are likely better to discuss this
[09:16] <PHB> Saviq it's VT1 login, not X/Wayland login
[09:17] <PHB> but it's just cosmetic problem not really important for domotique usage
[09:24] <Saviq> In that case you may want to install a bootsplash, Ubuntu uses plymouth - it will still not be seamless, but may improve things
[09:25] <PHB> i config plymouth on debian, but i can trying bootsplash thank's i will search in this direction
[09:31] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths edited [issue #2563](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2563): [Mir 2.9~rc2, miral-kiosk] Failure to display
[09:31] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths edited [issue #2563](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2563): We don't get a clear diagnostic when we have no active outputs
[09:32] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths added enhancement to [issue #2563](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2563): We don't get a clear diagnostic when we have no active outputs
[09:34] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths marked [pull request #2562](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2562): Release 2.9.0 as ready for review
[09:42] <alan_g[m]> Saviq, do we want to do anything about building 22.10/arm64 for 2.9? (Hopefully the toolchain will get fixed sometime...)
[09:49] <Saviq> IMO it's OK to know what the issue is
[09:49] <Saviq> And we can react to it if it doesn't get fixed when 22.10 gets released
[09:49] <alan_g[m]> Agreed, just wanted a second opinion
[10:04] <Saviq> Though it will be a problem when we upload to Ubuntu
[10:05] <Saviq> Or maybe not, since 11 is still the default outside of proposed
[10:06] <alan_g[m]> We can let RAOF deal with it - as you say we know what's happening
[10:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths edited [pull request #2562](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2562): Release 2.9.0
[10:20] <PHB> alan_g[m] for information, ubuntu not show login prompt, snap start before result is perfect ! . if pinn catalog have pi4 ubuntu i'am switchting :)
[13:10]  * alan_g[m] wonders what pinn is (google foo was not strong enough)
[14:32] <grayson-g[m]> https://github.com/procount/pinn maybe he means this?
[14:33] <alan_g[m]> More likely that what I found. ;)
[17:05] <alan_g[m]> Goodnight all!


[07:12] <rogpeppe1> mornin' all
[07:12] <urulama> morning
[07:16] <huwshimi> morning
[07:20] <rogpeppe1> urulama, huwshimi: hiya
[08:57] <rogpeppe> frankban: yo!
[08:58] <frankban> morning rogpeppe
[08:58] <rogpeppe> frankban: you up for continuing forward with the store stuff?
[09:00] <frankban> rogpeppe: sure, coffee and I am ready
[09:00] <rogpeppe> frankban: cool
[09:10] <frankban> rogpeppe: I am in daily standup
[09:10] <rogpeppe> frankban: joining
[09:40] <frankban> urulama: could you please take a look at https://github.com/juju/charmstore/pull/12 ?
[09:40] <frankban> urulama: (and morning ;-)
[09:42] <urulama> frankban: morning
[09:47] <urulama> frankban: looks fine, only small detail ... you use CharmArchive sometimes instead of Archive (all the rest cases) ... any particular reason for this?
[09:49] <urulama> frankban: (ie, branch_test.go, line 83)
[09:50] <frankban> urulama: we (will) also have BundleArchives
[09:50] <urulama> frankban: all clear
[12:36] <jrwren> mornin
[12:40] <urulama> morning
[13:04] <urulama> jujugui: anyone else having problems with the login window after getting 1.20.0 core in the update? can't enter password for user-admin on any browser (firefox, chrome, safari)
[13:05] <frankban> urulama: trying to reproduce
[13:05] <urulama> jujugui: whatever is typed is lost within a few sec (self erased)
[13:10] <frankban> urulama: I am able to log in into the GUI in a local env
[13:11] <urulama> frankban: ok, tnx. using manual here, switching to amazon now
[13:14] <bac> hi frankban
[13:15] <frankban> bac: morning, how are you doing?
[13:16] <bac> frankban: good, thanks.  on friday, doing QA for quickstart i ran into bug 1316174 and suspended the release.  can't recall if i mentioned it or not.
[13:16] <_mup_> Bug #1316174: 'precise-updates/cloud-tools' is invalid for APT::Default-Release <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316174>
[13:16] <bac> frankban: it isn't a QS issue but i didn't want to do a friday release with an issue
[13:17] <frankban> bac: isn't it something also affecting current release?
[13:17] <bac> frankban: yes it does
[13:17] <frankban> bac: so, a new release would keep failing on precise but at least would fix trusty IIUC
[13:18] <bac> frankban: yes, it would be an improvement
[13:18] <frankban> bac: in this case I'd be +1 on releasing anyway.
[13:18] <bac> frankban: qa on trusty was fine
[13:19] <bac> frankban: ok, unfortunately i am not here today.
[13:19] <frankban> bac: oh, I can do that then, so missing bits are 1) QA on saucy 2) move the packages to juju stable PPA and 3) push the release to PyPI, correct?
[13:20] <bac> frankban: and the homebrew bits
[13:23] <frankban> bac: ok, I see the hacking file includes brew documentation. I'll take care of the release, thanks a lot for the heads up while on holiday.
[13:23] <bac> frankban: np
[13:37] <rogpeppe> frankban: ready to continue whenever you are
[13:39] <frankban> rogpeppe: joining
[13:54] <urulama> frankban: seems like local, amazon & openstack env work properly, while manual has the issue with the login in juju-gui
[13:54] <urulama> frankban: will test on some other machine, to see if i get the same error in manual env
[13:56] <frankban> urulama: ok, let me know if you see the same
[14:28] <hatch> morning all
[14:41] <frankban> morning hatch
[14:41] <hatch> frankban I've gone through about 4 more versions of the 'runWhenCalled' testing implementation heh
[14:41] <hatch> and still need to do one more :)
[14:42] <frankban> hatch: after that, 3 more and I'd expect it to be just perfect
[14:44] <hatch> haha - well I need it to finish these tests so those iterations better come quick :)
[14:45] <hatch> the last iteration didn't work because it was hard to follow for many steps through the UI https://gist.github.com/hatched/087d9e30e3eb92a46657 see I added // #'s to illustrate that
[14:45] <hatch> the current one does away with all that so you can write them synchronously
[14:46] <hatch> except for the initial async call has to be called last....which I don't like
[14:47] <hatch> frankban maybe you have a better idea https://gist.github.com/hatched/42e60957927b7caddd8b#file-test-js-L14
[14:48] <hatch> that's the current functionality
[14:49] <hatch> I like how it's written synchronously but it's the initial 'trigger' that has to be put at the end which is a little funky - I was considering adding a `runner.step()` method which would parse the steps first then run a `runner.start()` but that's adding even more code to the test runner which I was really trying not to do
[14:55] <hatch> jujugui call in 5
[14:59] <hatch> jujugui call in 1
[15:01] <hatch> jujugui call now
[15:08] <hatch> kadams54 https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gwrfc6s6hbqazst3ovh3uaypeua?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:09] <hatch> hurrroowwww
[15:19] <jcsackett> jujugui: sorry i missed call time. have been knocked offline for last 30min and lost my phone.
[15:19] <hatch> jcsackett np
[15:24] <kadams54> hatch: sooooo…
[15:24] <kadams54> hatch: it looks like we check for that 'new' prefix in other parts of the code
[15:24] <kadams54> And use it to make decisions about whether the machine is committed yet or not.
[15:24] <hatch> ok that's not going to work for the future
[15:25] <kadams54> What should we be doing?
[15:25] <hatch> we should inspect the model to see if it's a real-boy
[15:25] <hatch> later on we will add the ability to name machines
[15:25] <hatch> so we can't rely on a user input to know if something is new or not
[15:26] <kadams54> Well, it's not really user input, since it's a standard string we prefix to all machine IDs.
[15:26] <kadams54> (for uncommitted machines)
[15:26] <kadams54> The one advantage I see is that it means we don't have to do a DB lookup
[15:26] <hatch> right but that's not going to work
[15:27] <hatch> unless we have newthisismymachinename
[15:27] <hatch> or what if they name their machine 'newsuperbox'
[15:27] <kadams54> Name doesn't matter
[15:27] <kadams54> It's combining "new" + ID
[15:27] <kadams54> And I think ID is an auto-generated sequence?
[15:28] <hatch> can you link me to where this is happening
[15:29] <kadams54> Just grep through machine-view-panel.js for 'new' (with single quotes included in the search) - it happens all over the place in there.
[15:30] <kadams54> Also: I'm not seeing a connection between the IDs of committed machines and the IDs assigned to ghosted machines, which would mean more overlap.
[15:31] <kadams54> The ghosted IDs are assigned via the _ghostCounter, which is just set to 0 when a MachineList is instantiated.
[15:34] <hatch> but the name being displayed to the user is the id right?
[15:36] <kadams54> Not really
[15:36] <kadams54> It's just a temporary ID
[15:36] <kadams54> Which is created from 'new' + _ghostCounter
[15:37] <kadams54> And _ghostCounter has no connection to the actual IDs stored in the DB.
[15:37] <kadams54> So a machine could be new0 when created
[15:37] <kadams54> But 1 once actually deployed
[15:37] <jcsackett> hatch: i'm looking through your review, and i'm wondering, how would you feel about the various "createInspector" methods dealing with destroying the old one after they make a new one?
[15:37] <jcsackett> hatch: rather than the _inspector method tracking active and previous the whole way through?
[15:38] <jcsackett> at the point where we're, say, making createServiceInspector responsible for sorting out quite a bit about the state of the service inspector, it seems tidier to me.
[15:38] <hatch> kadams54 right, but what's being shown to the user? something is generating that
[15:38] <hatch> jcsackett hmm lemme take a look
[15:39] <kadams54> hatch: what's being shown to the user is exactly what I just said. 'new' + _ghostCounter
[15:39] <hatch> kadams54 so your card is simply deleting that 'new' ?
[15:40] <kadams54> Yes, and I'm saying it's not "simply" and we might want to re-think it.
[15:41] <hatch> you think that we should leave the 'new' prefix?
[15:41] <kadams54> 1) we have logic based on the 'new' prefix and 2) we'll end up with a confusing UX because the user will see two machines labeled "0" and the only diff between them is that one is blue.
[15:41] <kadams54> hatch: yes.
[15:42] <kadams54> hatch: keep the new prefix, unless there's a strong case for removing it. In which case we'll need to get creative with solutions.
[15:42] <hatch> 1) this is not going to work in the future, we can't rely on something saying 'new' if the user can enter their own names
[15:43] <hatch> 2) I propose that we dont' show id's at all for undeployed machines if we can't show a reliable id
[15:43] <hatch> new0 is just as confusing as 0
[15:43] <kadams54> hatch: is naming machines on the road map?
[15:43] <hatch> yes, it's even in the bug report...
[15:43] <kadams54> new0 isn't great…
[15:43] <kadams54> But it's better than 0
[15:43] <kadams54> It communicates something important about the machine's state
[15:44] <kadams54> Something that distinguishes new0 from 0
[15:44] <urulama> frankban: so, i've set up completely new set of machines for manual env and the "disappearing" password is no longer there. however, connecting to the juju environment fails now :(
[15:44] <hatch> kadams54 right, but new0 seems like it's a new version of 0, when in fact it's an entirely different machine
[15:45] <kadams54> hatch: I'll concede that point, but it's still better than having two machines labeled as "0"
[15:45] <kadams54> hatch: I don't like the way things currently work, but I don't think "simply" removing the "new" prefix is a step in the right direction.
[15:45] <hatch> jcsackett so instead of doing the previous inspector assignment in _inspector and then the previous.destroy in the _inspector you want to move that into the create methods?
[15:46] <jcsackett> hatch, i think so. can you chat for a moment?
[15:46] <hatch> kadams54 ok that's fine - so you need to send an email to design and peeps expressing your concerns and offering an alternative approach so that everyone can weigh in
[15:46] <hatch> jcsackett sure just one minute I need to relocate
[15:46] <kadams54> 1) We need to change the logic to look at a model attribute to determine uncommitted state and 2) we need to figure out how to differentiate (beyond blue color) ghosted machines from committed machines.
[15:46] <jcsackett> hatch: cool.
[15:46] <hatch> construction crews are making a ton of noise
[15:47] <kadams54> hatch: will do.
[15:47] <jcsackett> always fun, the construction.
[15:47] <frankban> rbasak: quickstart 1.4.1 is on PyPI
[15:50] <hatch> jcsackett https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gs4t7bkjwkdpdylcfqa4a2nuwaa?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:14] <hatch> jcsackett ok creating a new hangout
[16:15] <hatch> jcsackett https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gvbizv4vjesvksrba5nljzslq4a?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:48] <hatch> kadams54 thanks for the email
[16:48] <kadams54> yup
[16:50] <hatch> kadams54 I usually add luca directly to these emails as I'm not sure  he's on peeps, maybe keep that in mind and ping him next time you see to make sure he got it
[16:50] <kadams54> Yeah, I CC'd him on this.
[16:50] <kadams54> Rick had mentioned the same.
[16:52] <hatch> oh I didn't see it in the list
[16:52] <hatch> maybe you bcc'd?
[16:53] <kadams54> From: Kyle Adams<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:53] <kadams54> To<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:53] <kadams54> Cc: Luca Paulina<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:53] <kadams54> I suspect the list stripped off the CC.
[16:54] <hatch> interesting I didn't know it did that
[16:54] <hatch> in fact I didn't think that it did heh
[17:33] <kadams54> Taking a lunch break…
[17:46]  * rogpeppe is done for the day
[17:46] <rogpeppe> g'night all
[18:01] <hatch> cya rogpeppe
[18:01] <hatch> jujugui anyone around to take a look at a complicated test using my new 'resume' method? https://gist.github.com/hatched/a115fb081279c8856b9d
[18:01] <hatch> this technique now allows you to test async UI interactions by writing synchronous code
[18:08] <hatch> here is the changes to the utils methods and it in use https://gist.github.com/hatched/087d9e30e3eb92a46657
[19:54] <jcsackett> hatch: FYI, won't have branch up before my usual EoD. Doc appt has been 2.5 hours and ain't over yet.
[19:54] <hatch> yikes, ok np
[19:55] <hatch> lots of waiting room?
[20:00] <hatch> jujugui looking for a review and qa https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/425 plz and thanks
[20:01] <hatch> I'm blocked on my next task until that branch lands
[20:02] <hatch> well I can just continue from it, np
[20:50] <hatch> jujugui does anyone know how the user will 'scale-down' with the new scale-up UI?
[21:19] <rick_h__> bac: around?
[21:25] <hatch> hmm, does anyone know why a simulate() call wouldn't work in IE in a callback?
[21:25] <hatch> rick_h__ no he is off today
[21:25] <hatch> ended up working Friday instead
[21:25] <rick_h__> hatch: ok cool
[21:25] <hatch> and wb to the real world
[21:25] <hatch> :)
[21:25] <rick_h__> hah, no kidding
[21:25] <rick_h__> wheeee
[21:25] <rick_h__> start driving home and all the emails start to arrive
[21:26] <hatch> haha, ding ding ding ding.......
[21:26] <rick_h__> there's still places out there with no cell connectino
[21:26] <hatch> yeah our cabin used to be one....unfortunately (fortunately?) it now has reception
[22:08] <hatch> well I'm totally baffled by this test failure
[22:08] <hatch> of course it has to be in IE10 too hah
[22:27] <hatch> hmm it happens in all versions of IE
[22:27] <hatch> even 11
[22:27] <hatch> kadams54 wb
[22:32] <hatch> well I'm at a total loss here maybe a night off will give me some fresh perspective
[23:07] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:07] <rick_h__> morning huwshimi
[23:07] <rick_h__> how goes?
[23:07] <huwshimi> rick_h__: Hey, good thanks. Have a nice break?
[23:12] <rick_h__> huwshimi: yea, have 996 pictures to go through :)
[23:12] <rick_h__> good times, a little crazy having no cell reception for days at a time
[23:12] <rick_h__> but was good and exhausting times in the woods
[23:13] <huwshimi> rick_h__: Great! It's cool to hear how you actually get away during your breaks :)
[23:14] <huwshimi> I guess that usually doesn't stop you from working though :)


[05:10] <DrCool> When I am in Thunar I can't click and drag a box around files I want to select.  Is this normal?
[05:13] <adrian_1908> DrCool: not normal. Does no box appear or does it appear but have no effect?
[05:16] <DrCool> no box
[05:16] <DrCool> adrian_1908,
[05:17] <adrian_1908> but you can get a box (aka selection rectangle) elsewhere on your desktop?
[05:18] <DrCool> It looks like it might just be on the mounted flash drive that it does not show.
[05:19] <DrCool> wait
[05:20] <DrCool> maybe it's just where I select in general. I can't start on a file name or just white space.
[05:23] <adrian_1908> Not sure what's happening on your side. I can drag a rectangle starting in the whitespace just fine, isn't that the normal thing to do? In my opinion Thunar is one bug ridden piece of garbage, possibly the worst core application shipping with XFCE, but I admit I still keep using it out of inertia.
[05:25] <DrCool> thanks adrian_1908, i'll need to look into it someday.
[09:05] <akis> hi all. i copied and pasted a new password from a file stored under libreoffice to mozilla. unfortunately i closed libreoffice file without save the new password and meanwhile i exit the web site, so i cannot change it. now on the clipboard "paste" is grey so i cannot paste the password again. is there any way to recall this last information from clipboard, firefox or ram memory. i have not installed any clipboard manager and firefox's rememebr
[09:05] <akis>  passwords is off. i read a lot of documentation but i didn't find any solution. any idea? or the content of clipboard is gone for ever although my system is running? i am running 14.04.1
[09:07] <flocculant> gone when you closed applications
[09:22] <akis> flocculant: unfortunately i read this too, but i still wondering if there any way to retrieve it i.e. from ram or any other cache file. it is the last copy/paste for today and since then i didn't copy or paste anything else. is it any chance to restore the information?
[09:23] <flocculant> not that I know of
[09:25] <akis> flocculant: thank you for your time today, i hope any else has any other idea.
[09:28] <xubuntu47w> hello
[09:31] <akis> is there any clipboard manager installed by default in xubuntu system except xclipboard which just handles copy/paste procedure through X system?
[09:32] <flocculant> akis: no manager installed by default
[09:34] <akis> flocculant: is there chance xclipboard to help me to restore the information copied?
[09:35] <flocculant> akis: I've told you what I know - might not be what you want to hear ...
[09:36] <akis> flocculant: actually it is not what i want to hear...so i am trying not to give up. many things in pc systems look impossible but often there is a solution...
[12:01] <kermit77> afternoon
[12:02] <salad> Hey, how can get more resolutions for xubuntu 14.04 under virtualbox?
[12:16] <kermit77> i just tried the xubuntu 16.04 beta, basically to play with ZFS
[12:16] <Snappsiz> Greeting fellow xubuntu lovers ! I have a question if someone got a sec?
[12:16] <kermit77> but there’s no option to set it up as a ZFS system in the installer
[12:18] <palash> any one can help me with partitioning?
[12:18] <Snappsiz> I have a laptop with a i7 core and nvidia gpu, do i need 32-bit xubuntu?
[12:20] <Snappsiz> tryed to use xubuntu 64-bit install but i can only launch in to it one and after a reboot it bugs out
[12:22] <Snappsiz> please can i get a fast yes or no =) ? wanna get the xubuntu up and running sucessfully </3 (today) xO
[12:24] <xubuntu_user> hi
[12:24] <Snappsiz> Greetings
[12:24] <Guest90793> Hi, i have a problem with partitioning?
[12:24] <salad> Snappsiz: I'm not sure about Xubuntu specific, but for linux in general that system should be fine for 64 bit
[12:25] <xubuntu_user> after updating ubuntu 14.04 it use wrong  screen resolution
[12:25] <xubuntu_user> i cant set the reslution to 1440x900
[12:26] <Snappsiz> salad: okay thanks i will just have to try and error and run 32 bit because it gives me to much errors on 64 bit :/
[12:26] <Guest90793> hi can any one help me?
[12:26] <Snappsiz> im new so i can only say i can try to help you but cast your question and someone/or me may come with a helping comment
[12:26] <salad> Snappsiz: Weird. Maybe try the LTS version? If you're already using that, perhaps try 15.10?
[12:27] <Snappsiz> iv'e tyied the 14 and 15.1 version 64-bit so far
[12:27] <Snappsiz> same problem with both of them7
[12:27] <salad> Tried other 64 bit OS's?
[12:28] <Snappsiz> regular ubuntu to
[12:28] <Snappsiz> 12.10 and 14.?
[12:28] <salad> It's not xubuntu ofc, but it'd be useful for a test
[12:28] <Snappsiz> same problem with those **
[12:28] <salad> Snappsiz: Was it running win before?
[12:28] <xubuntu787> hi, greetings
[12:29] <Snappsiz> yeah windows before
[12:30] <Snappsiz> but the errors does not indicate that there's any errors because of that
[12:30] <Snappsiz> 64-bit windows *
[12:31] <Snappsiz> should i try 14.04 32-bit or 15.1 ?
[12:31] <Snappsiz> what do you thing gives me the best shot x)
[12:31] <Snappsiz> so far as i've seen 64-bit systems allways installs amd64 dependences
[12:31] <Snappsiz> (linux)
[12:31] <salad> Wouldn't know which is better to try sorry lol, I'm not normally a big ubuntu user
[12:32] <salad> what errors are you getting?
[12:32] <flocculant> salad: install guest additions - from the vbox devices menu
[12:32] <salad> flocculant: Yeah I got it in the end thanks :)
[12:32] <flocculant> k - didn't see that
[12:32] <salad> Yeah I forgot to write it lol ^^"
[12:32] <flocculant> :)
[12:33] <Snappsiz> im getting cpu errors that its "overloaded" when the cpu is low temp and low use (example of one error)
[12:33] <Snappsiz> also getting gui errors reguarding not working "using low end gui because of..."
[12:33] <Snappsiz> didnt write the errors down but never gotten those erlier so i guess this pc wont run off 64-bit linux os
[12:34] <Snappsiz> i will check bios settings just in case x)
[12:34] <Snappsiz> well laters ! hope your vm will work out in the end ! :D
[12:34] <salad> cya
[12:34] <xubuntu787> hi everyone!
[12:34] <Snappsiz> cu
[12:34] <salad> good luck :)
[12:34] <xubuntu787> is it possible to split the system partition as i haven't created any while installation?
[12:35] <xubuntu787> anyone online
[12:35] <xubuntu787> ?
[12:49] <ed_1> can someone help please? i recently changed the pci wifi card on my laptop and now all my pci networks disappear after standby or reboot. they return after power out/battery out....5min...reboot. etc/network/interfaces has just # interfaces(5) file used by ifup(8) and ifdown(8) .auto lo.iface lo inet loopback.  the wifi card shows under nm but with hardware switch is OFF (its not) and 3g card is absent. i looked up similar problems and solutions but no good so f
 ar.
[12:50] <ed_1> could i need to blacklist modules?
[12:52] <Snappsiz> im back are you still here? :3
[12:54] <Snappsiz> got my xubuntu booted but i still get cpu trottled error =/
[12:55] <ed_1> smartstep enabled?
[12:57] <Snappsiz> in bios?
[12:57] <Snappsiz> i've enabled all requred settings i can find in bios
[12:57] <Snappsiz> using xubuntu as dualboot alongside windows on my ASUS ROG GL551JM-DH71
[12:57] <Snappsiz> if that helps :P
[17:31] <Lyrin> I'm trying to install startup disc creator, how do I do that?
[17:35] <flocculant> Lyrin: install usb-creator-gtk
[17:36] <Lyrin> thanks


[01:16] <mdke> mpt: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/
[01:17] <mdke> mpt: pretty rough stuff, especially the MAC, but maybe helpful
[01:21] <mpt> mdke, neat
[01:22] <mpt> Did the people who wrote the Switching From Windows guide know about this? :-]
[01:22] <mpt> ugh, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromWindows#head-328622217d9484960c5c758f3387cbdd61dabc2b is bad though
[01:23] <mdke> mpt: same author, broadly, I think
[01:25] <mdke> mpt: he's doing some exams at the moment and hopefully will get increasingly involved after they finish
[01:26] <mpt> Does he have a name? :-)
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> Better not be another Matthew :P
[01:27] <mdke> mpt: Phil Bull
[01:32] <mpt> ah, ok
[04:59] <coreyt> Can we get a "Todo" Wiki for the documentation team :)
[05:00] <coreyt> Hell a bug system would be great as well :)
[05:00] <coreyt> Then it could be prioritized and people can assign themselves problems to be fixed.
[05:06] <somerville32> Just file a bug
[06:21] <LaserJock> coreyt: we have a todo list and you can a file bugs against the ubuntu-doc product
[09:42] <mdke> coreyt: both of those exist already
[09:42] <mdke> ah, LaserJock mentioned that
[09:43] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:42] <jenda> mdke: ping
[10:42] <mdke> jenda: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[10:42] <jenda> meh :)
[10:43] <jenda> mdke: The Czech LoCo might be overdubbing them screencasts, but needs a place to put them.
[10:43] <jenda> mdke: any chance they could be hosted on a docteam server?
[11:22] <popey> we could put them in the same place I guess
[11:38] <willvdl> how often is doc.u.c built?
[07:27] <mdke> jenda: we might be able to think of a solution involving the screencast site
[08:50] <popey> we could have a naming convention which invoved using the two letter country codes for the langauge of the text and the langauge of the voice over
[08:50] <popey> because in this case they will be different
[09:18] <mdke> popey: you mean accept english videos with localised voice-overs only?
[09:18] <mdke> sounds good. I think we could just use the language code of the voice over for that. Then if someone localised the video too, it can replace it
[09:29] <LaserJock> mdke: oh my gosh, one of my LP bugs just got set to "Fix Committed" :-)
[09:31] <mdke> LaserJock: I had three today :) fix-it-friday
[09:33] <LaserJock> mdke: and it only took 9 months :-)
[09:35] <LaserJock> maybe I should go poke #launchpad for another one
[09:35] <LaserJock> or maybe that's just being greedy
[09:36] <mdke> i whinged a bit last night and the result was that salgado fixed 3 of my bugs today
[09:37] <LaserJock> wow, nice
[09:37] <mdke> if you have any easy bugs, get them to do them for a fix it friday
[09:53] <paulproteus|jhu> popey, BTW, it would be interesting to record keystrokes and mouse presses in a script so that way an English Ubuntu user could make a screencast and the Hungarian guy could just replay the keystroke recording and make a fresh screencast.
[10:45] <jenda> mdke: sounds great :)
[10:47] <mdke> jenda: for future things though, Canonical provides hosting for locoteams
[10:48] <jenda> great.
[10:48] <jenda> mdke: our locoteam is in the process of migrating.
[10:48] <jenda> (to Canonical hosting)
[10:48] <mdke> ah
[11:21] <mdke> that's the stuff
[11:23] <LaserJock> where's mdke and why has dholbach taken over his nick
[11:23] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:23] <mdke> we're bringings hugs to #ubuntu-doc
[11:24] <LaserJock> shesh
[11:24] <LaserJock> my wife wonders about all you sometimes, "Why are they all huggy on there?" she asks
[11:24] <mdke> she follows?
[11:25] <LaserJock> mdke: sometimes when I'm in bed she reads it
[11:25] <mdke> cheeky
[11:26] <Burgwork> jenda: how does one request hosting from Canonical?
[11:26] <Burgwork> I keep meaning to move Canada's to there
[11:26] <mdke> Burgwork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoHosting
[11:27] <jenda> thanks mdke, now I don't have to admit I didn't know :)
[11:27] <Burgwork> mdke: thanks
[11:27] <mdke> the wiki knows all
[11:28] <LaserJock> yeah, scary
[11:29] <LaserJock> mdke: hmm, here's a translation question for you. Say I want some file translated, is there an easy way to put it up on Rosetta and just have people translate it for me?
[11:30] <mdke> LaserJock: do you have it in po format?
[11:30] <LaserJock> I can
[11:30] <mdke> *pot
[11:30] <mdke> you can upload the pot template to a product or distro source package
[11:30] <LaserJock> and then it's just a matter of getting translators aware or willing to do it?
[11:31] <mdke> yes
[11:31] <mdke> you can leave the permissions open, or assign translation groups to it (such as Ubuntu translators)
[11:31] <LaserJock> I'm going to have a set of .desktop and .directory files for Edubuntu
[11:31] <LaserJock> for dynamic menus
[11:32] <LaserJock> and the only negative thing is that they currently aren't translated
[11:32] <mdke> right
[11:32] <mdke> you could see how ubuntu/kubuntu do it
[11:33] <LaserJock> mdke: have you done a bzr branch of the sandbox branch of the repo?
[11:34] <LaserJock> I've noticed that since 0.13 bzr has gotten a lot faster
[11:34] <mdke> LaserJock: no. I was thinking that it would be a good weekend to learn how to use bzr
[11:34] <LaserJock> but I've been branching like forever
[11:34] <mdke> what does bzr branch do?
[11:35] <LaserJock> that creates a local branch
[11:35] <LaserJock> it's sort of like a co for svn
[11:35] <LaserJock> but it grabs the entire history
[11:35] <LaserJock> something must be wrong, I just stopped it at 52min.
[11:36] <mdke> there is no co?
[11:36] <LaserJock> there is
[11:36] <mdke> bloody hell, 52minutes?
[11:36] <LaserJock> yeah, something must be wrong
[11:36] <LaserJock> you can do bzr co
[11:36] <LaserJock> and it'll act like svn and just grab the last revision
[11:37] <mdke> and you can use it normally?
[11:38] <LaserJock> yeah, the made basically a svn emulation mode
[11:38] <LaserJock> *they
[11:38] <mdke> ok
[11:39] <mdke> and is our sandbox thing working as a centralised repository?
[11:39] <LaserJock> but it really shouldn't take 52min to branch :/
[11:39] <mdke> well, it's a big repo
[11:39] <mdke> or maybe the whole repo isn't in the sandbox, dunno
[11:39] <LaserJock> well, anybody in the ubuntu-doc team can push to it
[11:39] <LaserJock> there are 3 branches on LP
[11:39] <mdke> and push is like svn commit?
[11:39] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:40] <LaserJock> see you when you do bzr commit, it's local
[11:40] <LaserJock> so you can be working along locally
[11:40] <LaserJock> commiting as you go
[11:40] <LaserJock> so you don't lose track, etc.
[11:40] <mdke> but why do you need to commit locally if you're working locally already? how does that work
[11:40] <LaserJock> and can revert things
[11:41] <LaserJock> well, think of it this way, when we svn co, we can't do any version control without commiting to the repo, right?
[11:41] <mdke> well you can revert local changes
[11:41] <LaserJock> for instance, with the packaging guide, I sometimes lose what I'm doing because I'll be writing something over a period of days
[11:42] <LaserJock> well, in this case you wouldn't have to revert all the way back
[11:42] <LaserJock> because you're commiting locally
[11:43] <LaserJock> then, when you're ready to put things to the LP repo you can bzr publish
[11:43] <LaserJock> and that actually pushes all your local commits to the repo
[11:43] <mdke> ok
[11:43] <mdke> what's the difference between publish and push?
[11:44] <LaserJock> umm, I think I just used it wrong
[11:44] <LaserJock> I think to publish your branch you use bzr push ;-)
[11:44] <mdke> ok
[11:44] <LaserJock> anyway, you don't *have* to do it this way
[11:45] <LaserJock> you can do it the svn way too
[11:46] <LaserJock> mdke: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Workflows is kinda helpful
[11:46] <mdke> I'm going to spend some time reading up
[11:47] <LaserJock> they seem to have really increased the speed lately, be sure to have at least 0.13
[11:48] <mdke> what's in feisty?
[11:48] <mdke> 0.14:)
[11:48] <LaserJock> 0.13
[11:48] <LaserJock> oh, maybe I haven't updated
[11:48] <mdke> 0.14~rc1-0ubuntu1
[11:48] <LaserJock> I actually added the bzr repo to my sources.list
[11:48] <LaserJock> so I can get the latest on edgy
[11:49] <LaserJock> I figure they should know how to make a decent .deb ;-)
[11:50] <mdke> presumably
[11:52] <LaserJock> they really have made it quite flexable as far as workflow
[11:52] <mdke> it would be nice to move if it works well.
[11:52] <mdke> If you can checkout and work normally without getting the revision history, that will dispose of speed worries, won't it?
[11:53] <mdke> is this what I should get? https://launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/+branch/ubuntu-doc/trunk
[11:54] <LaserJock> that seems to be the most updated one
[11:54] <LaserJock> that automatically grabs from our svn
[11:55] <mdke> I really don't understand the Fetch Phase 1/4 stuff
[11:55] <mdke> crazy
[11:57] <LaserJock> mdke: I think bzr checkout --lightweight is what you'd want for the svn-like thing
[11:57] <mdke> oh right, yeah, this isn't progressing much
[11:58] <LaserJock> I think a regular co grabs the history too so you can also make local commits as well
[11:58] <LaserJock> bzr is really powerful
[11:58] <LaserJock> but it's also got a lot of options
[11:59] <LaserJock> svn co, svn up, svn commit is really easy to do
[11:59] <mdke> ok, I'll try --lightweight
[11:59] <mdke> otherwise I'll leave this checkout thing overnight or something
[12:00] <mdke> if it told me the files it was getting I think I'd feel more encouraged :)
[12:01] <LaserJock> eventually we could have a repo with branches for each of say generic, ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu, common
[12:01] <mdke> that would be a shame, I think
[12:02] <LaserJock> I'm still far from understanding how all that works but it sounds cool
[12:02] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure that it would be too bad
[12:02] <LaserJock> but I know what you mean
[12:02] <LaserJock> there's something to keeping everybody together
[12:03] <LaserJock> but I think their branch repo thing could be a bit of an inbetween
[12:04] <mdke> so far it's downloaded 17 mb of .bzr and no files >_<
[12:04] <LaserJock> making it more modular, but still centralized
[12:04] <LaserJock> well, I think that's normal
[12:04] <mdke> with --lightweight? svn doesn't do that
[12:05] <mdke> does bzr just have one hidden folder in the top of the tree, rather than in all the subfolders?
[12:05] <LaserJock> yep
[12:05] <LaserJock> .bzr at the head holds everything
[12:05] <LaserJock> in fact, when you push you are just sending .bzr
[12:05] <mdke> I see
[12:05] <LaserJock> I cant take a branch
[12:05] <mdke> do you can't choose which subfolders to checkout, you have to checkout the whole branch?
[12:06] <LaserJock> that's what a branch is
[12:06] <LaserJock> I think of it as sort of smaller scale than a repo
[12:06] <LaserJock> so each branch should be a distinct "thing"
[12:07] <LaserJock> granted that model seems to apply better to software than docs
[12:07] <theCore> mdke: bzr download the whole .bzr directory, then unpack the last revision from it
[12:07] <theCore> downloads*
[12:07] <LaserJock> theCore: we are doing co --lightweight though
[12:07] <LaserJock> I gues it's just downloading the last revision to .bzr
[12:08] <theCore> LaserJock: same thing, except it only downloads the last revision, instead of all of them
[12:09] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, it took me 10m for --lightweight
[12:09] <LaserJock> hmm, our repo is just so big :/
[12:10] <LaserJock> it's only 38MB though
[12:10] <LaserJock> 10min for 38MB is kinda ...
[12:10] <LaserJock> slow
[12:10] <theCore> bzr is indeed slow
[12:11] <theCore> but I don't know why
[12:11] <mdke> cool, mine is downloaded too
[12:11] <LaserJock> you should do a full bzr branch overnight to try that out
[12:11] <theCore> I wonder if it uses compression for checkouts
[12:12] <theCore> what is the docs branch's URL?
[12:12] <LaserJock> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ubuntu-doc/trunk
[12:12] <theCore> thanks LaserJock
[12:12] <LaserJock> mdke: if you want to try pushing you'
[12:12] <LaserJock> you'll want to grab the sandbox branch
[12:13] <mdke> I can't use that one?
[12:14] <LaserJock> no, that one is read-only I think
[12:15] <mdke> is it the usual things like "bzr rm" and "bzr cp"?
[12:15] <LaserJock> I believe so
[12:16] <LaserJock> mdke: bzr help is pretty good
[12:16] <mdke> read the docs, you think?
[12:16] <mdke> surely not
[12:16] <LaserJock> bzr help commands gives you a list of commands
[12:16] <LaserJock> and bzr help <command> gives you more info