[00:00] <darkxst> jbicha, ha finally fixed the crappy gdm -> login transition ;)
[00:53] <darkxst> oh yay user sessions break XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP :(
[01:55] <bjsnider> why does it break it?
[01:55] <bjsnider> what is it set to? here it's gnome
[02:25] <darkxst> bjsnider, its no longer set withingthe environment that gnome-settings-daemon runs
[02:26] <darkxst> lightdm was patched, to fix this issue, but obviously not gdm
[02:31] <jbicha> I've had issues with $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP for a while now in Saucy, some times it wouldn't seem to work right for apps run from a terminal
[02:31] <jbicha> but it's working fine here now
[02:32] <jbicha> I think it would be a bit better if we sniffed dbus for whether Shell is running instead of using XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
[02:32] <jbicha> because Flashback is closer to Unity than GNOME Shell in many cases
[02:39] <darkxst> jbicha, this is a slightly different issue, gnome-session set XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
[02:39] <darkxst> so anything run as a upstart user session, won't have it set
[02:40] <darkxst> by all accounts Flashback is going to be messing no matter what we do!
[02:40] <darkxst> although perhaps it should just set its desktop session as unity
[02:45] <darkxst> jbicha, anyway have patched gdm to provide equivalent functionality
[02:54] <jbicha> yeah we could ping Edubuntu about whether they want to just pretend to be Unity; it might be too late to mess with this cycle
[03:02] <jbicha> darkxst: syslinux is still the Ubuntu purple with today's daily here
[03:03] <darkxst> jbicha, no way, you must have yesterdays
[03:05] <jbicha> I just zsynced, i386 and amd64 both
[03:06] <jbicha> the plymouth bootloader is the nice new one, but I still get the purple Ubuntu "press any key for accessibility" symbolic screen when booting the iso
[03:13] <jbicha> also with amd64 I'm getting the unity-greeter-style accessibility and network menus in ubiquity-standalone instead of the gnome-shell mode that I get with the i386 image
[03:14] <darkxst> jbicha, really sounds like you have an old image
[03:14] <darkxst> syslinux is now great
[03:14] <darkxst> grey
[03:16] <jbicha> oops, wrong directory
[03:17] <jbicha> I zsynced from my ubuntu directory not the ubuntu-gnome one
[03:25] <darkxst> lol, that would do it ;)
[03:25] <darkxst> bug 1212408
[03:26] <darkxst> patches are in there, although I guess where blocked by the freeze right now
[03:27] <jbicha> gdm's easy to get pushed through since no one else uses it
[03:28] <jbicha> and XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP not working is a fairly important bug
[03:29] <jbicha> you said you figured out a way to suppress the default wallpaper popping up during boot?
[03:30] <jbicha> no, maybe you just meant the zoom-in effect on login?
[03:31] <jbicha> the zoom effect is annoying because my computer is working too hard loading everything on login that the zoom effect loses too many frames to look cool
[03:35] <darkxst> jbicha, g-s-d was loading the background plugin
[03:35] <darkxst> I have disabled it
[03:35] <darkxst> (nothing to do with the zoom effect)
[03:35] <jbicha> what does that fix? and we still need the background plugin, right?
[03:42] <darkxst> jbicha, backgrounds are done in mutter
[03:42] <darkxst> the default background that was display before and after gdm was coming from g-s-d
[03:49] <darkxst> jbicha, so essentially we were running 2 different background plugins!
[04:09] <darkxst> jbicha, bug 1219148
[07:38] <theenduser> jbicha, I had no idea, thnx
[14:12] <sargorn> Hi, everyone!
[14:13] <sargorn> Is there any Ubuntu Gnome forum? I've got some issues with UG 13.10 A2 and need help solving them.
[16:39] <bjsnider> sargorn, i guess you could ask here: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=329
[16:39] <bjsnider> or in this channel
[16:59] <checoimg> Hi
[17:00] <checoimg> I'm having trouble with Hibernation. The session saves fine but the networking applet says "Unmanaged" and can't get the command to make it get managed again. should I file a bug and where to ?
[17:01] <jbicha> checoimg: you might be able to workaround that resume bug by running sudo pkill NetworkManager
[17:02] <jbicha> you can report the bug by running ubuntu-bug linux
[17:02] <checoimg> and then Alt+F2 : NetworkManager ?
[17:03] <jbicha> if that command works right, it should automatically restart NM
[17:03] <checoimg> Ok
[17:03] <checoimg> I'll try now
[17:13] <checoimg> The bug appears to happen with hybrid hibernate because when hibernation is done the suspend session doesn't have anything on networking but that's just a guess
[17:13] <checoimg> let me try hybrid hibernation since I tried pm-hibernate
[17:13] <checoimg> back in 10 minutes
[17:27] <checoimg> jbicha : Thanks
[19:33] <theenduser> is there a keyboard shortcut for the notification bar (or w/e it's called)?
[19:50] <bjsnider> theenduser, super+m
[19:53] <theenduser> thnx again bjsnider :)
[19:53] <theenduser> saucy's rock solid atm
[19:53] <theenduser> some glitches w/ tweak-tool but that's it
[21:38] <darkxst> jbicha, seem input switching is just broken under Unity even without g-s-d 3.8?
[21:39] <jbicha> darkxst: bug 1201679


[10:04] <CIA-31> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1526 ubuntu/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Move to 3.0.0-10 kernels.


[09:43] <colonolGron> update-grub should detect all OSs on the computer right?
[09:43] <colonolGron> i have ubuntu installed, now installed gentoo from inside ubuntu to another partition
[09:44] <colonolGron> when i run boot-update in the ubuntu now, will it detect the gentoo? and i dont have to do anything?
[10:21] <colonolGron> hm there is not update-grub..is lubuntu using grub2 or grub by default? so i can reinstall update-grub...
[14:58] <newbooter> sf
[14:58] <newbooter> oops
[14:59] <newbooter> Could anyone tell if it is possible to create a desktop shortcut that only shows on one desktop page when you use multiple desktops? If I create one now it shows up on all pages...
[15:00] <newbooter> Is this possible with LXDE?
[16:36] <holstein> newbooter: i dont know what that means, friend
[16:36] <holstein> newbooter: i mean, in FOSS, typically *anything* is possible, but, it will be a matter of conveying what you are looking for to a volunteer in the community to assist you with it, or, implementing it yourself
[16:37] <holstein> i get that you want an item on the desktop, that, im assuming you want to click it to activate an action..
[16:38] <holstein> you only want that item on one of several multiple desktops, correct? so, you literally *cant* have it on all of them? that is *not* an option? why?
[16:38] <holstein> what is the goal?
[17:44] <colonolGron> i dont think that why is important for him, just whether its possible with lxde :)
[17:51] <newbooter> Sorry holstein I missed your response!
[17:52] <newbooter> you only want that item on one of several multiple desktops, correct? Yes, that is correct.
[17:52] <holstein> newbooter: sure.. why?
[17:52] <newbooter> So LXDE by default has a desktop 1 and a desktop 2, right?
[17:52] <newbooter> I have added 2 more, so I have 4 now.
[17:52] <holstein> newbooter: you literally dont have room for the icon on the other desktops?
[17:52] <holstein> whats the goal?
[17:53] <newbooter> So I would like to have desktop 1 for general stuff, 2 for work/projects, 3 for all kind of Linux lubuntu stuff, so for example have all the settings/configuration/look and feel shortcuts on desktop 3, and not on all the other ones.
[17:54] <newbooter> So it's to organize basically.
[17:54] <holstein> sure, but you can have icons for that organize, and have them on all desktops, and not break that
[17:54] <holstein> you just click on the ones you want on the deskop you want them on
[17:55] <holstein> i think the "Easiest" way to get to what you are looking for would be a panel or dock.. get one of those per desktop
[17:56] <newbooter> That would become very cluttered. If I have 10 icons for linux stuff, 15 for work stuff, 10 icons for development stuff all on every desktop etc., that's a lot of icons that always show up. Messy.
[17:56] <newbooter> Okay panel or dock
[17:56] <holstein> newbooter: sure, and i think what you are trying to do, as i said *is* possible, since all of lxde is open
[17:56] <holstein> that doesnt mean its easy, or something that others want, or that a developer cares to implement
[17:57] <holstein> what i usually say is, lxde is meant to be light and lean first.. so, if its not pretty close (like 90%) of what you want "out of the box", you may want to try something else
[17:57] <newbooter> Okay... I understand you could probably develop it to do that. But I was primarily looking at if it is possible with the current one.
[17:57] <holstein> or, just build up something custom with openbox, for example.. openbox and your own panels and desktop icon manager
[17:58] <holstein> newbooter: *everything*, again, is possible.. the issue is, implementation
[17:58] <newbooter> I mean you can also send open applications to a particular deskop, so I was expecting that if I create a shortcut, it would only show up on that desktop.
[17:58] <newbooter> Yes I understand that completely. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking an option that already existed.
[17:59] <holstein> newbooter: i dont think that is an easy setting in a menu.. i would go for a panel, or dock per screen
[17:59] <holstein> something like wbar or plank..
[17:59] <newbooter> Thanks holstein, I will look into panels and docks.!
[17:59] <holstein> newbooter: cheers..
[18:03] <newbooter> Would like to make it work with lxde rather than switch... lxde feels really fast and settings are quite logical so far. Also I am on older HW (1GB RAM), so trying to keep it lean.
[18:06] <holstein> newbooter: sure.. *any* panel like that will work with any DE
[18:06] <holstein> im just saying, mostly folks tweak lxde to the point that its heavier than something else that is made to be more robust and have more features
[18:07] <holstein> thats why i mentioned, for example not even using lxde, but, even lighter than that. openbox, with just what fits your needs custom built
[18:07] <holstein> your own desktop icon managers in place.. or no desktop icons.. and whatever light panels or docks that deal with what you are trying to implment
[18:08] <guest2> When i want to see the details of updates, why is the text disaphere ? i using 14.04.1
[18:08] <holstein> or, just simply a directory on the desktop called "workspace 1".. where you have the stuff you want to access from workspace one
[18:08] <holstein> you add a click, but, you dont add anything that consumes resources
[18:08] <holstein> guest2: doesnt here
[18:09] <holstein> guest2: you can use the terminal if you prefer... "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[18:10] <guest2> it is before i start to download updates. but it works ok anyway.
[18:10] <newbooter> "or, just simply a directory on the desktop called "workspace 1" ". Tried that earlier, if I create new dir on a desktop, it shows up on all desktops...
[18:11] <holstein> newbooter: correct
[18:11] <holstein> newbooter: i never meant to imply that its on one.. im simply saying, you have 4 directories.. and that is all.. they will fit, and look neat, and organized
[18:12] <holstein> newbooter: and, you dont have to hack anything, or compromise on the lightness of the system by adding a dock or a panel
[18:12] <newbooter> Right 4 dirs that show up on all desktops.
[18:12] <holstein> correct
[18:12] <newbooter> Cleaner I agree.
[18:13] <holstein> when on workspace one, you click on the directory containing the workspace 1 items you want.. etc
[18:13] <holstein> no doubt, what you are asking for is a "nice" feature for some.. and AFAIK, KDE allows for that easily, with per workspace items.. widgets and launchers
[18:13] <newbooter> Ah yes and then it ONLY opens in that particular desktop... better.
[18:13] <holstein> there are other ways to add the same functionality to lxde
[18:14] <newbooter> Sure but KDE prob too heavy for my 1 GB
[18:14] <holstein> the exact same tools, if you wish.. but, that is a compromise
[18:14] <newbooter> Looking further into docks/panels for lxde at the moment
[18:15] <newbooter> If it's possible in openbox than should be poss to impement in lxde, bc lxde works on top of openbox correct?
[18:15] <newbooter> Looking at panels/docks, brb
[18:15] <holstein> newbooter: friend.. what you want *is* possible
[18:15] <holstein> newbooter: everything is possible.. the issue is, it will add to your light system
[18:16] <holstein> what i was saying was, in an *only* openbox system, you are already at a lighter setup than lxde
[18:16] <holstein> then, you add something lighter, per workspace, to deal with icons
[18:17] <holstein> not adding just the ~/home/Desktop do the desktop, which is what is happening
[18:17] <holstein> newbooter: when thunar, or PCman, or whatever you want to use just uses the ~/Desktop director, then, thats all that will be used
[18:18] <holstein> but, if you use a different tool per workspace, then, you can likely easily point to whatever directories you like
[18:18] <holstein> ~/Desktop/workspace1 ..etc
[18:18] <newbooter> Hm let me read that for a mo
[18:19] <holstein> i suggest a dock/panel, since, its not pulling from ~/Desktop
[18:19] <newbooter> Ok so create a dir /Desktop/worspace1, and have lxde use that as the default desktop folder? Etc.?
[18:19] <holstein> newbooter: no
[18:20] <holstein> newbooter: then, you are getting the contents of that directory ;)
[18:20] <holstein> newbooter: you would need to implement a different tool, and undo the current tool
[18:20] <newbooter> oh you mean different dock/widgeting tool?
[18:20] <holstein> newbooter: which, again, adds to the resources that lubuntu is current using
[18:20] <holstein> newbooter: i mean, a custom desktop icon tool
[18:20] <newbooter> oh you mean different dock/widgeting tool per workspace?
[18:20] <newbooter> Right
[18:20] <holstein> newbooter: correct
[18:21] <holstein> now, the goal, for *all* operating systems, basically, is ~/Desktop is just that. on your desktop
[18:21] <holstein> you have to change that rather drastically
[18:21] <newbooter> Right, prob not the best idea going forward.
[18:21] <holstein> KDE uses widgets.. i have seen it done with panels, and docks.. etc
[18:22] <holstein> newbooter: well, just think that for me, a directory called "workspace 1" gets me all i want.. and doesnt add any resources, or take time to implement
[18:22] <newbooter> Right
[18:22] <holstein> its all "baked in" to lxde there
[18:22] <holstein> it adds a click, but, it doesnt break anything, and makes things cleaner, anyway
[18:23] <newbooter> Hm meanwhile I see that different wallpaper per desktop is possible out of the box with lxde
[18:23] <holstein> right, and that is *not* being pulled from ~/Desktop
[18:23] <newbooter> Ah from where then?
[18:23] <holstein> newbooter: where ever the location of the image is..
[18:23] <holstein> its not depending on ~/Desktop is my only poing
[18:24] <newbooter> Or is it more of a "on desktop switch, show that wallpaper" type of thing?
[18:24] <holstein> point*
[18:24] <holstein> newbooter: its just that.. per workspace wallpaper
[18:24] <newbooter> right
[18:24] <newbooter> brb
[20:57] <newbooter> So I get this message during boot: no caching mode page found
[20:57] <newbooter> And some other messages.
[20:57] <holstein> newbooter: *great*.. any errors?
[20:57] <holstein> any issues?
[20:58] <newbooter> Are those normally logged in /var/boot/boot.log ? I can't find them there... different log maybe?
[20:58] <holstein> newbooter: if its just a "message", just ignore.. any errors? or issues?
[20:58] <newbooter> When boot completes to GUI I get a sytem program problem detected window
[20:59] <holstein> newbooter: should be able to complete that with a bug report, and ask not to be promted any more
[20:59] <holstein> !bug
[21:01] <newbooter> Ok but how can I have a look at the error messages during boot? So I can make sure it's not just a HW error for example of my older laptop? Do I need to enable some extra logging or something?
[21:01] <holstein> newbooter: i just test for that
[21:02] <holstein> newbooter: i assume i *do* have bad hardware, and test and rule that out
[21:03] <newbooter> The system profiler does not show issues... is that the correct way to test hw on lubuntu?
[21:04] <holstein> newbooter: i dont use an operating system to test
[21:04] <newbooter> The error window detail says: unreportable reason, you have some obsolete package version installed... libpam, libpam-systemd, systemd, udev (some others).
[21:04] <holstein> i mean, i will, but i just use whatever tool "best" does the job
[21:05] <holstein> i'll use the memtest in the live iso's.. ill run a smart test from a live iso
[21:05] <holstein> i'll run bios tests.. trade out cables.. whatever it takes..
[21:05] <holstein> newbooter: if you have "legacy" hardware, and its working, you may just want to disable that report, and accept the compromise of using an operating system from 2014 on that hardware
[21:14] <newbooter> Hm makes sense. And the obsolete packages thing? Those seem like they are pretty essential packages? Software updater does not report them as out of date, but if I look in synaptics it shows there is a never version ( for example libpam is on 8.1, newest version is 8.2). Do I upgrade those straight away or wait for software updater to advise updating?
[21:22] <holstein> newbooter: i use the terminal.. "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[21:26] <newbooter> Ok thanks for your help.
[21:30] <newbooter> Interesting to see that software updater does not show it as an update, but boot messages say packages are out of date. Maybe bc difference between ubuntu core and lubuntu?
[21:31] <holstein> newbooter: shouldnt be.. though, i would just upgrade, and see if you have any issues..
[21:31] <newbooter> Will do.


[03:48] <james_w> what would be the old way of spelling Graph.iter_lefthand_history()?
[03:54] <lifeless> branch.get_history(0
[05:07] <AfC> I lament Git.
[05:34] <poolie> mm
[06:51] <twb> bzr-fastimport repo used to include darcs-fast-export script.  Now I can't find it.  What happened to it?
[06:52] <twb> Hmm, seems latest version simply delete all exporters, without telling me where to get replacements
[06:54]  * twb randomly googles and finds http://hackage.haskell.org/package/darcs-fastconvert
[09:12] <mgz> morning
[11:45] <johan> Hi, I'm having an issue uncommiting a set of changes in a branch, using bzr 2.5.0
[11:45] <johan> bzr: ERROR: An inconsistent delta was supplied involving 'pixmaps/validation-error-16.png', 'pixmapsvalidationerr-20070828004315-ef6og11rrm2qvq9v-234'
[11:45] <johan> reason: Unable to find block for this record. Was the parent added?
[11:45] <johan> happens when I try to uncommit
[11:47] <mgz> johan: similar to bug 910002 maybe?
[11:48] <johan> mgz: yes, seems to be the same issue
[11:49] <johan> running bzr uncommit again says nothing to commit, but it also complains that the working tree needs to be updated
[11:49] <johan> I'd really like to be able to check out an earlier version of a branch before that bug is fixed
[11:50] <mgz> you can just do that
[11:51] <mgz> `bzr co --lightweight -r -5 ../olderversion` for instance
[11:51] <johan> ah, let me try that
[11:51] <mgz> plus the . to indicate from the cwd
[11:52] <johan> not needed, it worked fine thanks
[14:31] <hypnocat> bzr is often criticised for being slow compared to git.. is bzr slow because it's written in python?  or because of the algorithms it uses?  or some design decisions?
[14:33] <mgz> it's mostly historical
[14:34] <mgz> git was born fast and dumb, bzr evolved differently
[14:35] <quicksilver> git was designed pretty much first and foremost "how do I maintain linux kernel source trees and fast"
[14:35] <mgz> so, many core things these days don't have very different performance characteristics
[14:35] <quicksilver> and since the linux kernel tree is (a) big and (b) had loads of history
[14:35] <quicksilver> actually having a design that made sense was quite secondary to it being very fast.
[14:36] <quicksilver> bzr was designed "how do we do DVCS right?"
[14:36] <johan> no history was imported into the kernel when git was created
[14:36] <quicksilver> really? I stand corrected.
[14:36] <mgz> there are still some obvious differences
[14:36] <johan> they left the old bitkeeper data behind and did a clean break
[14:37] <mgz> cold startup is worse with python
[14:37] <hypnocat> would it help if bzr used one of the python compilers instead of the python interpreter?
[14:38] <mgz> so, your first vcs command after a memory pressure situation will be faster with a small binary rather than lots of pyc files
[14:39] <mgz> hypnocat: no, in short.
[14:40] <mgz> long version, bzr already uses cython (and C) for some parts where more C-like performance is needed
[14:40] <mgz> and the pypy answer to bad performance is "let it run for several seconds so the JIT warms up"
[14:41] <mgz> which obviously doesn't help much with a multiply invoked commandline tool like bzr
[14:41] <hypnocat> so, what are the main things that bzr does right compared to git that slow it down so much?
[14:41] <mgz> I think you missed my first line :)
[14:41] <hypnocat> that it's historical?
[14:42] <hypnocat> i got that.. they evolved differently
[14:42] <hypnocat> and the core stuff has similar performance
[14:42] <mgz> these days, there aren't big differences in performance on basic opterations
[14:42] <hypnocat> so where are the big performance differences?
[14:43] <mgz> I think their network protocol is more reliably performant
[14:44] <mgz> because there's only one way of doing it, whereas bzr doesn't discourage you from using lots of different protocols, some of which then do silly things
[14:48] <mgz> feel free to benchmark things though, or look in the list archives for older benchmarks, a few have been done
[14:48] <hypnocat> alright, thank you
[18:38] <bsd> Hi jelmer.  Is there any support in bzr-svn (or a bug) to allow stacking against a Subversion repo?  I'm having to work against a very large and old repo, and it will take days (weeks!) to download it all…
[18:38] <jelmer> hi bsd
[18:39] <jelmer> bsd: unfortunately stacking across different repository formats is not supported at the moment, and the svn format does not support stacking itself
[18:42] <bsd> jelmer: so there's little that can be done other than maintaining a parallel branch.  Oh well.
[18:44] <jelmer> bsd: how big is the branch?
[18:44] <bsd> jelmer: 142k entries.  But they've pushed in zip files and all sorts of monstrous binaries.
[18:44] <jelmer> ah
[20:34] <Omni|Work> How do I find out which branch a tag is on?
[20:34] <Omni|Work> I do 'bzr tags' and there are a whole ton of tags with a '?' on them.
[20:35] <wilx> The information is part of the log output.
[20:45]  * Omni|Work nods.
[23:13] <poolie> hi all


[09:05] <baizon> sorry
[09:15] <ochosi> for what?
[09:16] <baizon> that connect / disctonnect spam
[09:16] <baizon> had some problems with configuring xchat
[09:16] <ochosi> np
[14:25] <astraljava> GridCube: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/precise-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
[14:26] <GridCube> oh :D
[14:26] <GridCube> thank you very much astraljava
[14:26] <astraljava> np
[14:27] <GridCube> :)
[14:28] <GridCube> im gonna do test on this netbook and on the desktop one :D
[14:41] <astraljava> Excellent. I'm fearing I won't have much time to do the dailies this cycle.
[14:42] <GridCube> :D i hope i do this cycle, i now have a netbook so i will be able to do them at work :P
[14:44] <astraljava> That's good. Yeah I'm trying to do more devel work for Studio and here, as it in many cases benefits both.
[14:46] <GridCube> astraljava, that link doesn not contain alternate
[14:47] <astraljava> Drop the -live from the link.
[14:47] <GridCube> :D
[14:47] <astraljava> Also, sed -i s/desktop/alternative/g
[14:47] <GridCube> thats more like it!
[14:48] <GridCube> :D
[14:48] <GridCube> i dont know what that means :P
[14:49] <GridCube> ok :) its downloading 178 minutes :D
[14:50] <astraljava> It's 1337 for swapping desktop in the filename with alternative
[14:50] <astraljava> Not really. Just a very useful command in the CLI.
[14:52] <GridCube> :P in any case it should be "alternate" and no "alternative"
[14:55] <astraljava> My bad.
[14:55] <GridCube> :)
[16:19] <GridCube> knome, for oneiric we had this, dont know if adding it to the new roadmap is a good idea or not https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor
[16:35] <knome> GridCube, if we can get an assignee for it, then yes. if you think nobody is willing to drive for the change, then i don't know.
[16:35] <GridCube> oh, well, i just meant for it have already a comparizon and all
[16:36] <knome> yeah. but it should still have an assignee.
[16:36] <GridCube> but as i've tested the latest ristretto 0.3.0 it fixes most of the problems it had
[16:36] <GridCube> so i don't see a need to change it now :D
[16:36] <knome> yes, but that's a different thing, and that item is already on the list with assignee.
[16:36] <GridCube> oh
[16:36] <GridCube> :)
[16:38] <GridCube> i also have this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/ProposedChanges
[16:39] <knome> i can go through that list with you now if you have time
[16:41] <GridCube> :)
[16:41] <GridCube> ok
[16:41] <GridCube> :D
[16:41] <knome> okay
[16:41] <knome> so the first item
[16:41] <knome> well, i don't know if there is one we can use?
[16:41] <GridCube> there is
[16:41] <GridCube> you have to compile it tho
[16:42] <knome> right. then the first step is to get it in the repositories
[16:42] <knome> are you willing to be the assignee for that?
[16:42] <knome> IMO okay to add that to the list, though it's no the highest priority
[16:43] <GridCube> i don't know how its done, but if its easy ennough i will, im not the one who coded it tho
[16:43] <GridCube> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-kbdleds-plugin/
[16:43] <knome> no problem. but it needs to be on the repositories so we can include it
[16:44] <knome> does that use the indicator area?
[16:44] <GridCube> no
[16:44] <GridCube> its just an addon
[16:44] <knome> right.
[16:44] <GridCube> its not pretty but it works
[16:44] <knome> i'd say add an action item to get that in the repositories first.
[16:45] <GridCube> explain please
[16:45] <knome> "Add xfce4-kbdleds-plugin to repositories"
[16:45] <knome> anything we have by default MUST BE in the repositories.
[16:45] <GridCube> where i add that? on the roadmap?
[16:45] <knome> yeah.
[16:45] <knome> in the new features table
[16:46] <GridCube> :)
[16:46] <GridCube> ok
[16:46] <knome> check the example on adding new rows
[16:46] <knome> you need to use the alternative row colors manually, since the wiki doesn't support this automatically..
[16:47] <GridCube> oookay
[16:47] <knome> (i've filed a bug about that)
[16:47] <GridCube> once the wiki logs me in...
[16:47] <knome> yeah.
[16:47] <knome> anyway, the next item; new wallpapers
[16:47] <knome> we will have at least one new wallpaper
[16:47] <knome> there is also the ubuntu community wallpaper package
[16:47] <knome> which you can easily install
[16:47] <knome> maybe we should make that known to people
[16:48] <knome> other than that, i don't think we really will do much about that
[16:48] <GridCube> oh oh, about that, i checked now, and there are plenty of new wallpapers!
[16:48] <knome> yeah
[16:48] <knome> we should clear the list otoh
[16:48] <GridCube> i don't know when the came up, they werent there while i tested the daily images
[16:49] <knome> can you send me an email at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>saying "clean wallpaper list, ubuntu community wallpapers" ?
[16:49] <knome> (doesn't need to say anything else)
[16:49] <knome> i'm just not at home right now so i'm not very productive in that sense:P
[16:49] <knome> next item:
[16:50] <knome> gpicviewer; well, i'm trying to get ristretto back. as it's seeded already, it's quite easy to set as default
[16:50] <knome> next:
[16:50] <ochosi> knome: sry, i might not be able to make the meeting tonight
[16:50] <knome> darker theme; maybe for p+1. we're going to make greybird as stable as possible for 12.04
[16:50] <ochosi> well maybe i will, but i can't promise
[16:50] <knome> ochosi, np
[16:50] <knome> sure
[16:50] <knome> we'll do fine
[16:50] <ochosi> ok, see you later!
[16:51] <knome> next: places for pseudo-dock; the places plugin is deprecated so won't happen... i'm hoping for some improvements for the dir plugin though
[16:51] <GridCube> sorry knome i have to go fdor a moment
[16:51] <knome> np
[16:51] <GridCube> :D
[16:51] <knome> i'll just write down everything here :P
[16:51] <GridCube> thank you will comeback later!
[16:52] <knome> GridCube, re: autologin. maybe ask mr_pouit about this. i have no idea what is going on regarding this. probably should be added to the roadmap anyway.
[16:53] <knome> GridCube, re: start-menu to metakey; IMO this should come from upstream (xfce), not xubuntu. i'm not sure if i'm willing to go for this feature, but it's okay for me if you can change/disable the shortcut.
[16:53] <knome> GridCube, re: gmb; i don't think we'll switch now to any other player
[16:54] <knome> GridCube, re: deluge; if you are willing to take this action item, and do the specific app comparison, feel free to add it with yourself as assignee. if not, then try to get somebody to take the action item.
[16:55] <knome> GridCube, re: xfburn; that should either be fixed upstream, or it won't be fixed.
[16:56] <knome> GridCube, re: lubuntu package manager; i think USC works for many. synaptics is in the repo and i personally like it more than USC. it is more powerful, and we should point those willing to get more control over packages to it, but i don't think it would make a good default package manager. maybe add this item in the agenda for the next meeting in "other business" so we can discuss it.
[16:57] <knome> that should be it.
[16:57] <knome> i'll be back later today.
[16:59] <ScottL> knome, ochosi :  stochastic apparently has taken lead on the ubiquity patch for ubuntu studio, either he or i will document what we did and hopefully this will assist you
[17:29] <GridCube> knome, about USC i've been having a lot of problems with it, usually it just doesnt open at all
[18:19] <knome> ScottL, okay, good
[18:20]  * stochastic says hi.
[18:20] <astraljava> Hey! Keep your thoughts in the meeting, dangit!
[19:27] <ochosi> ScottL: thanks for the heads-up
[19:27] <ochosi> and hi stochastic :)
[19:28] <stochastic> hey ochosi
[19:29] <stochastic> was it you that scott mentioned would be good to discuss theme related items with?
[19:34] <ochosi> i would guess so, yes :)
[19:35] <stochastic> okay, I'll keep that in mind
[19:35] <stochastic> nice to meet you
[19:37] <Unit193> Howdy stochastic and welcome!
[19:37]  * stochastic should disclose that he's here to bridge between Ubuntu Studio and Xubuntu, primarily to make Ubuntu Studio better (sorry for the self interests)
[19:42] <ochosi> stochastic: nice to meet you too, no problem with the self-interest ;)
[19:43] <ochosi> i'm pretty sure there'll be enough mutual benefit
[19:43] <astraljava> Most definitely.
[20:14] <knome> stochastic, we have a meeting in 1h 45mins.
[20:20]  * stochastic will likely listen in
[21:00] <knome> xubuntu community meeting in 1 hour at #xubuntu-devel
[21:22] <astraljava> Dude, get the bot from Unit193.
[21:22] <astraljava> This is ridiculous.
[21:22] <Unit193> Wait, what???
[21:22] <Unit193> I'm not even here...
[21:30] <SiDi> Hey there.
[21:30] <SiDi> Anybody can tell me if gnome-settings-daemon is installed by default on  Xubuntu 11.10?
[21:30] <madnick> it is not
[21:40] <SiDi> ok thanks
[21:40] <SiDi> in fact, xfce4-volumed is not designed to work with pulseaudio. I had 3 reports about that lately
[21:40] <SiDi> I'm not willing to fix at the moment because I want xvd to evolve at the same time than xfce4-mixer, so if you want this fixed, please advocate PulseAudio support to Jannis
[21:41] <SiDi> I'm willing to write code, but that may not fit in the 12.04 release (i'm extremely busy)
[21:54] <micahg_mobile> I will be a little late to the meeting
[21:55] <SiDi> Meetings at 11PM?
[21:55] <SiDi> knome: ... you're evil man.
[21:55] <madnick> hehe
[21:56] <Unit193> Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:56:41 -0500
[21:57] <SiDi> what's that meeting thing? when is it?
[21:57] <ochosi> xubuntu team meeting at 22 UTC i think
[21:58] <GridCube> :D
[21:58] <madnick> It starts in 1 minute
[21:58] <madnick> :D
[21:58] <SiDi> wow
[21:58] <SiDi> which channel? :D
[21:58] <madnick> this one
[21:58] <SiDi> ok
[21:58] <GridCube> :D \o/ yay my first pangolin meeting :D
[21:58] <GridCube> i missed the first one
[21:59] <knome> okay
[21:59] <knome> let's try to be quick
[21:59] <GridCube> :P
[21:59] <knome> #startmeeting
[21:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Nov 13 21:59:17 2011 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[21:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:59] <knome> #topic Ongoing Business
[21:59] <knome> #subtitle Ubuntu moving to 5-year release schedule for LTS
[22:00] <knome> #info Will be carried to next meeting
[22:00] <GridCube> :) ok
[22:00] <knome> #subtitle Maintaining official/recognized derivative/flavor status
[22:00] <knome> #info Will be carried to next meeting
[22:01] <knome> #subtitle "maybe-ubiquity" option for LTS
[22:01] <knome> #info Will be carried to next meeting
[22:01] <knome> #subtitle Website stuff
[22:01] <knome> okay GridCube, the top 10 FAQ
[22:01] <knome> any news?
[22:01] <GridCube> i just need to have some input on question 10
[22:01] <knome> okay
[22:02] <ochosi> what is q10?
[22:02] <GridCube> i've been forwarding people to it several times
[22:02] <ochosi> oh
[22:02] <knome> could you copy the stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Top10
[22:02] <knome> GridCube, ^
[22:02] <GridCube> "whereto get more help"
[22:02] <knome> so we can get through it with pleia2 and others in the website sprint
[22:02] <GridCube> sure knome
[22:02] <Unit193> AskUbuntu is one place
[22:02] <knome> we can handle the "more help" part then too
[22:03] <GridCube> i've been using it to tell people when i see a toptened question been asked,no problems so far
[22:03] <knome> yeah
[22:03] <knome> the support methods are listed in the current website too afaik
[22:04] <knome> at http://xubuntu.org/help
[22:04] <GridCube> :) yes, we could link that
[22:04] <knome> well, we need to rewrite
[22:04] <knome> but that's where we can copy most of the stuff
[22:04] <knome> #info Grid''''''Cube will copy the Top 10 questions to wiki, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Top10
[22:04] <GridCube> no problem, for the top10, also
[22:04] <GridCube> translations
[22:04] <GridCube> i know olbi asked
[22:05] <GridCube> my idea the whole time was it to be simple so its easilytranslatable
[22:05] <knome> #info The Top 10 questions will be finalized in the website sprint
[22:05] <knome> translations for the whole website will come in later
[22:05] <GridCube> :) thats good then
[22:05] <knome> we can do some language versions of the top10 faq before that though
[22:06] <GridCube> i can do a spañish one easily
[22:06] <knome> yeah
[22:06] <GridCube> im sure olbi willwant to do one to if asked
[22:06] <knome> #info Call for Top 10 translations will be sent to mailing lists after the website sprint
[22:07] <GridCube> :)
[22:07] <GridCube> ..
[22:07] <knome> #info We will have a website sprint in next weekend, exact date and time will be verified early next week
[22:07] <knome> anything else on the website?
[22:08] <knome> okay, let's continue
[22:08] <knome> #subtitle Ristretto as default in Xubuntu 12.04
[22:09] <knome> #info No reported bugs are present in the latest version of Ristretto
[22:09] <GridCube> i can confirm that
[22:09] <knome> #info There is no blockers to include Ristretto by default in 12.04.
[22:09] <knome> #agreed Ristretto is a viable and likely choice as a default image viewer in 12.04
[22:10] <knome> #subtitle Meeting times
[22:10] <ochosi> +1 on ristretto btw
[22:10] <knome> #action knome will send an email about changing the meeting time to the mailing list next week
[22:10] <meetingology> ACTION: knome will send an email about changing the meeting time to the mailing list next week
[22:10] <knome> #title Team updates
[22:10] <GridCube> I can't do it on mondays :(
[22:10] <knome> #subtitle Packaging, Development
[22:11] <knome> GridCube, yeah, you'll be able to tell that to all of us :)
[22:11] <knome> mr_pouit, micahg?
[22:11] <knome> (please use #info...)
[22:11] <mr_pouit> okay, nothing much this week either
[22:12] <knome> anything? :P
[22:12] <mr_pouit> yes :P
[22:12] <knome> anything worth mentioning in the team updates?
[22:12] <knome> :P
[22:12] <ochosi> i think gmusicbrowser 1.1.8 is on its way
[22:12] <ochosi> via debian
[22:12] <mr_pouit> #info Merged new upstream release of xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin from debian testing
[22:12] <ochosi> micah said he could take care of that soonish
[22:13] <knome> mr_pouit, what about the kbdleds plugin?
[22:13] <GridCube> o/
[22:13] <GridCube> that :P
[22:13] <knome> mr_pouit, can we have that in the repository?
[22:13] <mr_pouit> #info Uploaded to oneiric a SRU for exo to fix mailto: helpers
[22:13] <knome> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-kbdleds-plugin/
[22:13] <mr_pouit> #info Uploaded to precise a fix for a crash in xfce4-power-manager, the SRU to oneiric will follow this week
[22:13] <mr_pouit> I think that's all for the new things
[22:14] <knome> okay
[22:14] <knome> sounds good though :)
[22:14] <mr_pouit> yeah, we can have kdleds plugin if you want
[22:14] <mr_pouit> I'd rather push it through pkg-xfce in debian though
[22:14] <knome> right
[22:14] <knome> should you be added as the assignee?
[22:14] <GridCube> that will be helpful for people that doesnt have a leded keyboard
[22:15] <mr_pouit> knome: yeah, feel free to assign that to me
[22:15] <knome> okay, thanks
[22:15] <knome> #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing
[22:15] <knome> anything on this?
[22:16] <knome> okay...
[22:16] <GridCube> not from me, havent started tests yet
[22:16] <GridCube> :P
[22:16] <knome> #subtopic Website, Documentation
[22:16]  * micahg_ waves
[22:16] <knome> #info Website sprint to follow next week
[22:16] <knome> hey micahg_ :)
[22:17] <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Artwork
[22:17] <knome> ochosi, any updates?
[22:17] <ochosi> hm, i've been working towards fixing gtk3 bugs in greybird, no luck so far
[22:17] <knome> okay
[22:18] <knome> so i suppose there is nothing...
[22:18] <ochosi> seems like the unico-engine doesn't allow theming the resize-grip (yet) and cimi is never available
[22:18] <knome> :(
[22:18] <ochosi> yeah, mostly plans ;)
[22:18] <knome> #info Mostly planning... And trying to get GTK3 stuff to work
[22:18] <knome> #topic Announcements
[22:18] <madnick> well, someone (knome, ochosi) to help me develop the visual style for the greeter theme
[22:18] <ochosi> true
[22:18] <ochosi> we wanted to do that
[22:18] <knome> madnick, yeah, just ping us next week
[22:18] <madnick> okay
[22:19] <knome> or at least feel free to ping me
[22:19] <knome> #subtopic Xubuntu brainstorming week
[22:19] <knome> YAYYY
[22:19] <knome> #info We've started planning for precise pangolin
[22:19] <SiDi> *epic music*
[22:19] <GridCube> :D
[22:19] <knome> #info The brainstorming week starts *now*, and ends on Monday, November 21
[22:20] <GridCube> :D i've been brainstorming already
[22:20] <knome> #info See the mail sent to Xubuntu-devel ML; https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-November/008040.html
[22:20] <knome> #info The wikipage for the roadmap for PP has all the information you need; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[22:20] <knome> tell your friends too!
[22:21] <knome> #subtopic Contributor check
[22:21] <knome> #info We want to know how many of the Xubuntu contributors are actually active
[22:22] <knome> #info If you think your status on any of our Launchpad teams is wrong... Please fix it by leaving, or applying for membership
[22:22] <ochosi> btw
[22:22] <knome> #info The mail to the Xubuntu-devel ML has some more details; https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-November/008039.html
[22:22] <knome> ochosi, yes?
[22:22] <ochosi> not sure whether that's web-stuff or team-stuff, but i'd consider it nice if we had a list of contributors/team members somewhere on the website
[22:22] <ochosi> something like "who the f*** is xubuntu?"
[22:23] <knome> yes
[22:23] <knome> i'd like to have the Launcpad teams current
[22:23] <knome> so we can link there
[22:23] <knome> and people would have access to things they need
[22:23] <ochosi> yeah maybe, we could also do something nicer than just link there
[22:23] <ochosi> but not sure it's needed
[22:23] <astraljava> o/
[22:23] <knome> yes, that too. but if you are in the LP group for eg. the website team, you can access and update the website code
[22:24] <knome> hey astraljava :) anything on your heart?
[22:24] <astraljava> Pointers to devel team application?
[22:24] <knome> astraljava, do you mean general ubuntu, or xubuntu
[22:24] <astraljava> knome: Xubuntu
[22:25] <micahg_> xubuntu dev just gets you commit access to the braches for the few things we maintain, doesn't help much
[22:25] <knome> astraljava, you will get approved if you have contributed to xubuntu. we don't have a specific procedure, because being a member of the xubuntu team doesn't allow you any
[22:25] <micahg_> not that I want to discourage more help though :)
[22:25] <knome> *buntu* access rights
[22:25] <knome> yeah.
[22:25] <astraljava> Ok, good enough, thanks!
[22:25] <knome> xubuntu team members are not automatically ubuntu members, or anything
[22:25] <micahg_> well, no xubuntu-dev should be more limited
[22:26] <micahg_> it does give access to the seeds
[22:26] <ochosi> reminds me of the council we should install...
[22:26] <knome> yeah...
[22:26] <knome> micahg_, right. though that's still not standard ubuntu procedure, is ti?
[22:26] <ochosi> and the XSD that needs revision
[22:26] <knome> *it
[22:26] <knome> ochosi, yes. i will get to that when we have more time, and a better meeting time...
[22:27] <ochosi> sure :)
[22:27] <micahg_> knome: right, mr_pouit has the authority in this case I think (or at least used to)
[22:27] <knome> micahg_, ?
[22:28] <knome> micahg_, okay, so it doesn't need to follow the standard ubuntu procedure. not that there is much rush for the -dev team anyway right now. :)
[22:28] <knome> #topic Other Business
[22:28] <micahg_> right, no, but we need to be sure that the person understands the various packages and seeds before granting membership to the dev team (merges welcome in the mean time)
[22:29] <knome> #subtopic Specification for a default Torrent client
[22:29] <knome> micahg_, yeah, i agree. that's why we need to council too...
[22:29] <knome> what features does a default torrent client for xubuntu need?
[22:29] <knome> simple ui
[22:29] <knome> extensive managing capabilities for multiple torrents?
[22:30] <ochosi> so we're considering dropping transmission?
[22:30] <knome> ochosi, GridCube is assignee for doing a comparison for those, so we should think which qualities we need
[22:30] <ochosi> ah ok
[22:31] <knome> personally i'm happy with transmission, as it's simple and gets the job done for most of the users who need torrents
[22:31] <ochosi> yeah, personally a simple/easy-to-use interface, a low memory footprint and multiple torrents are all i need
[22:31] <knome> anybody else wants to add something?
[22:31] <GridCube> well i use lots of torrents for... personal reasons, and transmission is not cool for that
[22:31] <Unit193> DHT, UPnP?
[22:31] <ochosi> e.g. no need to be able to search torrents via that app
[22:31] <knome> Unit193, i don't know what are those.
[22:32] <ochosi> GridCube: what's not working for you in transmission?
[22:32] <knome> Unit193, for what are those necessary?
[22:32] <micahg_> if we ever get QT in Xubuntu, I'd vote for QBittorrent :)
[22:32] <GridCube> you can not set it to download just one torrent a time, for example, or priority for that matter
[22:32] <knome> is that necessary for the normal user?
[22:32] <Unit193> knome: UPnP helps it to route traffic to your computer
[22:33] <ochosi> GridCube: sure you can set priority
[22:33] <Unit193> And DHT helps you find more sources
[22:33] <GridCube> i believe so, controling how much bandwith is used is a thing, but if you control the bandwith it will still try to download 10 torrents at a time
[22:34] <knome> GridCube, unless you pause them, right?
[22:34] <madnick> but you can pause them
[22:34] <GridCube> ... but then i will have to unpause them?
[22:34] <GridCube> i can not left it and download? that makes no sense
[22:34] <knome> what are the 10 legal torrents a user wants to download parallely?
[22:34] <ochosi> GridCube: for priorities go to torrent properties > options > torrent priority. it's rather easy
[22:35] <micahg_> amd64 and i386 versions of all supported Ubuntu and Xubuntu releases :P
[22:35] <knome> micahg_, that's 8
[22:35] <knome> :P
[22:35] <GridCube> and mint
[22:35] <astraljava> Ubuntu Studio, duh.
[22:35] <micahg_> and server :)
[22:35] <knome> we don't support mint.
[22:35] <knome> ;)
[22:35] <GridCube> XD
[22:36] <knome> well, yeah.
[22:36] <GridCube> ok its not imperative, but transmission just seems empty, like, not helpful
[22:36] <ochosi> GridCube: what would be a good alternative?
[22:36] <knome> what's the normal usecase for a normal user with torrents?
[22:37] <GridCube> deluge its my first option
[22:37] <knome> does he really download all the ubuntu versions, i386 and amd64, mint, server, and studio?
[22:37] <GridCube> not really
[22:37] <madnick> Ofc he does, while this channel is logged
[22:37] <knome> micahg_, mmh, yeah.
[22:37] <GridCube> ^^^
[22:37] <GridCube> thats pretty much it then
[22:38] <knome> tbh, i don't want to change our default torrent client to something more "powerful" to be able to boost illegal downloads... ;)
[22:38] <GridCube> agreed
[22:38] <GridCube> will take that down :D
[22:38] <knome> right, okay ... :]
[22:38] <madnick> There are serveral alternatives, but why use them as default
[22:38] <knome> mmh
[22:38] <Unit193> I have atleast 11 or so legal right now ;)
[22:38] <knome> yeah, people are free to install anything they want
[22:39] <GridCube> indeed
[22:39] <knome> but the default should be sensible, and in xubuntu's case, pretty lightweight and easy-to-use
[22:39] <knome> that's that for today.
[22:39] <GridCube> :)
[22:39] <GridCube> ok
[22:39] <knome> let's keep the discussion going on in IRC and the mailing lists
[22:39] <knome> #info We rock.
[22:39] <knome> #endmeeting
[22:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Nov 13 22:39:37 2011 UTC.
[22:39] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-11-13-21.59.moin.txt
[22:39] <GridCube> :)
[22:39] <knome> i'll put up the minutes later today
[22:39] <astraljava> Norther?
[22:39] <knome> bbl
[22:41] <GridCube> ok bye
[22:41] <astraljava> micahg_: mr_pouit: whoever: Right, so yeah, in case you have some xubuntu-related dev work to do, I'd like to participate. I'm especially interested in whatever benefits Studio too, but I eat pretty much everything.
[22:42] <micahg_> ochosi: gmusicbrowser will probably be later this week or early next week
[22:42] <micahg_> to get in unstable
[22:43] <micahg_> astraljava: ok, will keep in mind, are you familiar with packaging/seeds?
[22:43] <astraljava> micahg_: Yes, I've been doing that stuff for Studio.
[22:44] <ochosi> micahg_: thanks!
[22:44] <micahg_> astraljava: ok, great
[22:45] <knome> okay, ugh
[22:45] <knome> i'm back
[22:45] <knome> sorry for rushing the meeting a bit... :)
[22:45] <ochosi> it was quick but i think you got things done
[22:46] <knome> yeah
[22:46] <astraljava> Don't feel bad. We kinda wanted to get rid of you too.
[22:46] <micahg_> astraljava: I only see one sponsored upload in the last 3 years
[22:46] <knome> astraljava, thanks, now i feel much better! :)
[22:46] <astraljava> micahg_: Yep. I've been away for a while. Mostly I dealt with seeds for oneiric.
[22:46] <ochosi> knome, madnick: i kinda like this greeter-theme (large date) http://BigRZA.deviantart.com/art/Slim-Hud-Theme-265373570
[22:46] <knome> mmh
[22:47] <knome> i'm not a HUGE fan of the big time at least with that font, but could work.
[22:47] <madnick> ochosi: is that the theme scott was talking about?
[22:47] <ochosi> madnick: don't think so, but honestly i don't know
[22:47] <knome> i'll get the minutes up now, and will be back after that.
[22:47] <madnick> But dont we want our own background?
[22:47] <ochosi> sure
[22:47] <ochosi> just referring to the layout and general concept
[22:48] <ochosi> this is for slim anyway
[22:48] <madnick> I could make it look identical, except the bg i guess
[22:49] <ochosi> nice
[22:49] <ochosi> i'll try to get you a mockup in the next few days
[22:49] <ochosi> g2g to sleep now
[22:49] <madnick> okay :) gn
[22:49] <ochosi> already really tired
[22:49] <ochosi> night everyone!
[22:49] <knome> ochosi, night
[22:50] <madnick> one thing tho, we will need session support in the theme
[22:51] <micahg_> astraljava: ah, ok
[22:54] <knome> the minutes are up
[22:57] <knome> the agenda is updated
[22:59] <micahg_> knome: regarding the brainstorming, what types of things are you wanting on there and what about critiques of the ideas?
[23:00] <knome> micahg_, critiques for the ideas can be sent to the ML, and we will also go through all the items through in the next meeting, when the brainstorming period has ended
[23:00] <micahg_> ok
[23:00] <knome> micahg_, and you can really add anything that relates to xubuntu 12.04
[23:00] <knome> micahg_, probably don't want to add *every* bug you want to fix there but... you get the idea ;)
[23:01] <micahg_> yeah, I'm already pretty packed with things to do for 12.04 w/out thinking about xubuntu :-/
[23:01] <knome> yeah.
[23:03] <micahg_> knome: when is the next meeting?
[23:04] <knome> micahg_, i updated that in the wiki - 2011-11-21 UTC 21
[23:06] <knome> our team report, bolder as ever: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/11/November
[23:07] <knome> pleia2, ?
[23:07] <micahg_> knome: ok, I should be able to make that
[23:08] <knome> okay, great
[23:08] <beardygnome> hi, sorry i'm late
[23:08] <knome> beardygnome, you definitely are!! :)
[23:08] <knome> beardygnome, we ended the meeting 28 minutes ago...
[23:09] <beardygnome> ??
[23:09] <knome> 22UTC was over an hour ago
[23:09] <beardygnome> i forgot that the clocks going back would affect the meeting time!
[23:10] <knome> hehe :)
[23:10] <knome> well of course...
[23:10] <knome> beardygnome, the minutes are up though
[23:11] <beardygnome> i'll take a look at them tomorrow then
[23:11] <knome> sure
[23:11] <beardygnome> when's the next meeting?
[23:11] <knome> 2011-11-21 UTC 21
[23:11] <knome> the most important things are in your inbox though, if you are subscribed to xubuntu-devel
[23:12] <beardygnome> ok, thanks
[23:12] <beardygnome> yes, i am subscribed, so will check that out too
[23:12] <knome> yup! :)
[23:13] <beardygnome> thanks knome, will catch you later.


[01:51] <Napsong_boy> hi
[01:52] <Napsong_boy> any girls from jakarta in this room?
[13:45] <rtg> BenC: so whats the story with the Jaunty kernel? It looks like amit took the Intrepid -proposed kernel, added armel, then uploaded that (or someone did for him).
[13:51] <BenC> rtg: I wasn't expecting to get jaunty kernel done till after alpha1 went out
[13:51] <BenC> rtg: I've almost finished up the cleanup so I can send the summary to kernel-team
[13:51] <BenC> then I'll push and start some builds
[13:52] <rtg> BenC: actually, my curiosity was more about having to redo the armel work.
[13:55] <BenC> rtg: I'm not sure how amitk is handling arm kernels
[13:55] <BenC> rtg: I think that upload was mainly to get bootstrap started (linux-libc-dev)
[13:56] <rtg> BenC: well, lemme know if you need any help with Jaunty.
[13:57] <BenC> sure thing, thanks
[13:57] <BenC> it's pretty much grunt work at the moment
[13:57] <rtg> I think we're gonna have to figure out how to build armel using qemu until we get some porter machines.
[14:29] <apw> rtg perhaps we could make a qemu machine on an existing porter as a fake porter?
[14:30] <rtg> apw: ugh, that would take massive support from IS (which would also take awhile).
[14:30] <dholbach> hi guys :)
[14:31] <dholbach> did we have any bug reports about overactive fans on laptops like the lenovo x61s?
[14:31] <rtg> dholbach: sounds familiar
[14:31] <dholbach> fan speed is ~3800 when the machine is basically idling in gnome intrepid
[14:32] <rtg> amitk: don't you have one of these? ^^
[14:32]  * soren wonders if the overactive fan is the problem or a symptom
[14:33] <rtg> soren: ACPI is your friend :)
[14:34] <soren> rtg: Now I know you're lying :)
[14:34] <mjg59> Thinkpad fans aren't ACPI fans
[14:34] <soren> I'm just thinking that the overactive fan is a symptom of the system being too hot for some other reason.
[14:34] <rtg> mjg59: direct sensor connect?
[14:34] <soren> s/is/might be/, I mean.
[14:35] <mjg59> rtg: Under control of the embedded firmware
[14:35] <mjg59> There's a Thinkpad ACPI method that lets you change embedded controller values, which lets you take over control of the fan
[14:35] <mjg59> But that's not the default behaviour
[14:35] <soren> Interesting.
[14:36] <mjg59> So an overactive fan generally indicates high temperature
[14:36] <mjg59> thinkpad-acpi exposes an hwmon interface that should give you the temperatures
[14:36] <rtg> mjg59: is the embedded firmware running on an independent processor?
[14:36] <apw> i know the t40'ish ones nearly always needed the fan
[14:37] <apw> though my t61 seemed to turn it off, not got it any more to confirm
[14:37] <mjg59> rtg: Yeah, there's a microcontroller
[14:37] <mjg59> The embedded controller is generally the same hardware as the keyboard controller these days
[14:38] <dholbach> wow
[14:38] <dholbach> sensors-applet just added like<PHONE_NUMBER>78987654345678 temperature thingies to my panel
[14:39] <dholbach> they all seem to be between 25°C and 37°C
[14:44] <amitk> rtg: no lenovo here
[14:45] <amitk> rtg: I meant no lenovo x61s here
[14:45] <rtg> amitk: no problem. I didn't realize thermal control was independent.
[14:45] <dholbach> do you have any numbers on what your fans are running at when the machine is reasonably idle?
[14:58] <sconklin> ogasawara: if a LP bug is set to milestone:Later, that doesn't imply anything about whether I should pick it up from kernel team or not, does it? That gets set later in the process?
[15:16] <ogasawara> sconklin: when it's been milestoned for later that typically implies we couldn't get a fix into the current release but it should be considered for the next release.
[15:16] <ogasawara> sconklin: so if you'd like to work on the bug, feel free.
[15:16] <sconklin> ogasawara: ok, thx
[15:29] <Daviey> Is a 2.6.28 ppa upload planned soon?
[15:32] <rtg> Daviey: it'll likely be awhile yet.
[15:34] <Daviey> aww
[15:35] <Daviey> rtg: Any reason your git branch shouldn't build okay on PPA?
[15:36] <rtg> I don't have a 2.6.28 branch yet
[15:37] <Daviey> oh!
[15:38] <Daviey> sorry rtg, thought i saw you did
[15:38] <Daviey> my bad
[15:39] <rtg> its still in process. we should have a Jaunty kernel pretty soon, which will be 2.6.28 based
[15:42] <rtg> pgraner: if the stable update is referenced by a single SRU justification, then I didn't see the need to expand on the individual commit messages.
[15:43] <pgraner> rtg: I thought the reason was to ensure that they had all been looked at and were sane, were there any that were dropped or did we take it wholesale?
[15:45] <rtg> pgraner: I looked at each one, though not all apply because they are arch dependent. however, since the intrepid-ports kernel is based on intrepid, I felt it was important to carry even those patches that did not apply.
[15:45] <pgraner> rtg: Ah ok. perhaps next time drop that in the bug, keeps me from bothering you.
[15:46] <rtg> drop what in the bug?
[15:47] <pgraner> rtg: the explanation you just gave me, basically any relevant info about the patch set, why things are there (or not) etc...
[15:48] <rtg> pgraner: as one of my profs used to say, 'its intuitively obvious'
[15:48] <pgraner> rtg: ah... I'm more in the stupid proof camp...
[15:49] <pgraner> rtg: lots of people are reading these bugs and the more info as to why, is better.
[15:49] <rtg> pgraner: I'll get ogasawara to add it to the SRU stable update boiler plate. She's been creating the master bug for each stable update cycle.
[15:50] <pgraner> rtg: nice... leave it to you to automate it
[15:51] <rtg> I'm sure ogasawara likes being known as my automaton :)
[16:09] <rtg> apw: the more I think about it, merging the changelogs doesn't make sense because it does not accurately represent the changes that particular kernel went through.
[16:10] <apw> no what i did was keep the changelog unchanged, as its just a template
[16:11] <apw> and when i printchanges is includes changes from both branches
[16:11] <rtg> apw: I've a conf call I need to prepare for. I'll respond in detail on the mailing list.
[16:16] <smb_tp> rtg, I assume uploading the the next -proposed kernel with a well chosen -v on the dpkg_buildpackage would show all changes required...
[16:16] <rtg> smb_tp:  its helps with the diff that you see in LP.
[16:18] <smb_tp> rtg, That was my guessing. Let's whether my idealistic thinking turns out true :)
[16:46] <apw> so if we have bug which we have actually generated a fix and pushed it upstream, but there is little pressure to back port that fix, so the sensible way forward is to wait for it to flow back down naturally ...
[16:46] <apw> what is the right state for that bug ... Will not fix ?
[16:59] <apw> or perhaps we mark it as a bug upstream and Fix Committed it there, and will not fix on our side
[16:59] <apw> ogasawara, ^^ ?
[17:00]  * apw asks the oracle
[17:11] <BenC> apw: that sounds right
[17:13] <apw> thanks
[17:27] <ogasawara> apw: sorry was at the dentist, but yes Fix Committed likely for Jaunty and Won't Fix for Intrepid sounds reasonable
[17:29] <apw> i went for adding upstream and fix committed there, and won't fix for our task
[17:29] <apw> so that we don't have to worry about it at alll
[17:29] <ogasawara> apw: that works too
[17:30] <apw> in case jaunty doesn't end up with it, then our tasks would lie
[17:30] <apw> still we got something accepted upstream so thats good
[17:30] <apw> (trivial though it was)
[17:32] <apw> ogasawara, for something that looks like it will come down the pipe in mainline updates for jaunty, what is our bug handling for that
[17:33] <apw> straight to invalid if its against jaunty i guess?
[17:34] <apw> we really could do with a 'no change needed' status
[17:34] <apw> invalid just feels a little to much like 'submitter stupid'
[17:36] <ogasawara> apw: invalid always feels so harsh to me for those types of bugs.  so I typically just post a note we'll get the fix for free with Jaunty and set the status to In Progress and assign it to myself.
[17:36] <apw> what then move it to fix released when the kernel goes out?
[17:36] <ogasawara> apw: then I know to keep an eye on the bug and flip to Fix Released when we do get the fix
[17:37] <ogasawara> apw: I think there's actually a few maybe on the bug list I sent you like that
[17:37] <apw> yeah its one of those i was looking to handle
[17:37] <apw> i've confirmed its in upstream and on its way to us ...
[17:37] <apw> so i'll do what you suggested here
[17:38] <ogasawara> as long as it's on the list I'm sure one of us will see it and remember to close it out
[17:38] <apw> oh do you have edit title priviledge
[17:38] <apw> bug #222324 has hardy in its title, but that makes little sense as the bug is now 'against' jaunty
[17:40] <ogasawara> apw: we all do, it's just not obvious.  click on the little yellow circle icon next to the title
[17:44] <apw> heh ... oh ... strange ... this interface seems to resist understanding at times
[18:06] <sconklin> rtg: I'm backporting a touchpad driver into intrepid from Linus's tree. His commit didn't apply cleanly, but only had minor conflicts. Is this a sauce patch?
[18:07] <rtg> sconklin: not if it came from upstream.
[18:08] <rtg> sauce is for patches that we either expect to conflict, or will never go upstream.
[18:08] <sconklin> rtg: I just wondered because it needed a little fussing. Thanks.
[18:08] <sconklin> ok, got it
[18:08] <rtg> in actuality, the first case kind of abuses the notion of sauce.
[18:09] <sconklin> yeah, it's almost like we need a third name
[18:54] <BenC> I always took sauce as something that isn't in upstream
[18:54] <BenC> be it a patch we created, was pulled from an external tree, etc.