[00:12] <jose> sebas5384: well, you don't lose anything by trying, if it works then awesome! :)
[00:29] <sebas5384> thks jose
[00:29] <jose> np, and let me know if you need a hand with testing!
[02:05] <sebas5384> if there's some pt-br out there take a look http://blog.taller.net.br/taller-lanca-serie-de-infograficos/ :)
[02:05] <sebas5384> the next one is going to be about ubuntu juju :)
[09:07] <schegi> jamespage, online?
[09:08] <jamespage> schegi, I am
[09:11] <schegi> hey, i got some issues when redeploying a destroyed ceph charm. it seems like something is going wrong with the zapping of the disks. here is the log http://pastebin.com/mbtXtfKA. calling ceph-prepare-disk --zap-disk /dev/sdX manually solved the problem for me. just to let you know
[09:12] <schegi> jamespage, don't know if this is true for the ceph charm in the store, i used your network-split version.
[09:14] <schegi> btw anyone out there experienced with the hacluster charm??
[09:15] <jamespage> schegi, that would be me as well
[09:16] <jamespage> schegi, hmm - you might need to use the osd-reformat configuration option
[09:17] <schegi> yeah, thats the problem it is set to yes.
[09:18] <jamespage> schegi, hmm - I've not exercised that option with btrfs - we test with xfs as default
[09:18]  * jamespage pokes at the code
[09:19] <schegi> here is my config, http://pastebin.com/mXBTyuLs
[09:20] <schegi> jamespage, might be a btrfs problem. but as i said, when i log in to the machine and perform the zapping manually the error state resolves and the odds populate.
[09:20] <schegi> osds
[09:24] <jamespage> schegi, the charm should perform a pre-zap prior to calling ceph-prepare-disk - looks like that is not enought....
[09:24] <jamespage> hmm
[09:29] <schegi> jamespage, the error is a bit strange, currently deploying ceph to 3 nodes and ceph-osd to 10 more nodes and the error occurs from time to time but not reliably on all of the nodes. But if it occurs, on a node then for all of the disks. Btw the partition table in use it GPT.
[09:30] <schegi> And as described, just logging in to the node and performing ceph-prepare-disk --zap-disk /dev/sdX manually from the console resolves the error and the deployment succeeds.
[09:31] <schegi> But you have to do this for all of the disks on the node seperately
[09:36] <jamespage> schegi, how ubiqutous is the --zap-disk option in ceph-prepare-disk? does that go back to older versions? if so I can tweak how that's called
[09:36]  * jamespage checks
[09:39] <schegi> jamespage, to be honest, i have no idea i am just 4 weeks old with ceph/juju and all this. I am scientist and just got hands on a bunch of hardware and trying to make use of it.
[09:39] <schegi> :)
[09:40] <jamespage> schegi, its sufficently supported in older versions back to grizzly/raring so I'll poke that in
[09:42] <jamespage> schegi, I just nudged that into my network-splits branches
[09:43] <jamespage> if you want to give it a spin
[09:44] <jamespage> schegi, what question did you have about the hacluster charm?
[09:44] <schegi> shure, if i have to redeploy my ceph i'll try. currently i hang a bit on percona/corosync/pacemaker but i am not familiar enough with the whole to figure out why. could be caused by my network configuration. seems like all nodes in the corosync cluster running separately nd not connecting to each other.
[13:07] <g0d_51gm4> hi guys, I've a question for you, I made a test after to install MaaS and Juju deployed a juju-gui, last one works perfectly...why each time I re-boot the host machine and re-launch the VM, Region and Cluster Controler with the nodes, the juju's status is always "WARNING discarding API open error: unable to connect to "wss://<IP_ADDRESS>:17070/environment/814bd22b-4438-4ea6-8f22-92b39b866a42/api"
[13:07] <g0d_51gm4> ERROR Unable to connect to environment "maas".Please check your credentials or use 'juju bootstrap' to create a new environment".  to resolve that I've always to remove the directories .juju/enviroments and .juju/ssh and re-sync  juju and make the bootstrap again????thanks
[13:09] <g0d_51gm4> the ubuntu's installer re-begin the installation of OS? thanks a lot
[13:38] <g0d_51gm4> anyone can answer me?
[13:41] <avoine> g0d_51gm4: I guess the juju team are still sleeping at that time
[13:41] <avoine> most of them are in pst time I think
[13:42] <g0d_51gm4> avoine: maybe you right!!! last week they gave support at this time!!!!
[13:43] <g0d_51gm4> it's strange but it's ok!!!
[13:52] <lazyPower> g0d_51gm4: in the MAAS gui are your nodes still marked as assigned to whichever user's credentials are plugged into juju?
[13:52] <lazyPower> if the machine is going through the fastpath installer again, that typically means the node is not registered with maas.
[13:52] <g0d_51gm4>  lazyPower: hi how are y?anyway the answer for your q is yes
[13:53] <lazyPower> and the bootstrap node is online, with the juju processes running?
[13:53] <lazyPower> and the IP address of the node has not changed?
[13:53] <g0d_51gm4> lazyPower: all nodes are registered on MaaS
[13:53] <lazyPower> registered != assigned.
[13:53] <lazyPower> i'm talking the node is assigned to the user.
[13:54] <lazyPower> http://i.imgur.com/vGhLGZA.png
[13:54] <lazyPower> as you can see in this screenshot - i ahve several nodes registered. Only node 12, 5, 4, and 0 are actually assigned to my juju environment
[13:56] <g0d_51gm4> the ip address is not changed is always the same used to allocate the node to MaaS
[13:58] <g0d_51gm4> after to create a juju environment I've run the following commands: "juju sync-tools -e maas" and "juju bootstrap -e maas --debug". with last one I see the node starts and the ubuntu's installer runs. at the end of this process the prompt of that one is "Bootstrapping Juju machine agent
[13:58] <g0d_51gm4> Starting Juju machine agent (jujud-machine-0)
[13:58] <g0d_51gm4> 2014-07-15 13:32:12 INFO juju.cmd supercommand.go:329 command finished"
[13:59] <g0d_51gm4> I've seen your image and I've the same situation with my node.
[14:00] <g0d_51gm4> after that I've also deployed juju-gui and it works well.
[14:03] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: I think it is, at least I think it's coded that way
[14:03] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: is that causing a problem?
[14:03] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: re: calling config-changed
[14:04] <g0d_51gm4> the problem is present when I shut down the host machine (my PC). why after I re-start all virtual environment and, from MaaS  start the node where I've deployed juju-gui juju gives me that error!!!!
[14:06] <lazyPower> i don't exactly know, i've got a vmaas setup that comes back up when i restart the host.
[14:06] <lazyPower> i'm thinking, but not really coming up with anything that would be an inherent blocker
[14:06] <lazyPower> are you using KVM based virtual machines or bare metal?
[14:07] <g0d_51gm4> and another q is: adding a second node to MaaS how can I register the new node to the same juju's environment used for the first one?
[14:08] <g0d_51gm4> lazyPower:I use KVM
[14:09] <lazyPower> g0d_51gm4: are you wanting to manually add machines? otherwise juju deploy will communicate with maas and maas will return a machine randomly to add to the environment.
[14:09] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: yes, it caused a problem with a reboot
[14:10] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: a race between juju running config-changed, which restarts a service
[14:10] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: and the normal service start that happens during boot
[14:10] <ahasenack> the same initscripts called twice, at the same time
[14:10] <g0d_51gm4> no, I've added the vm node via PXE
[14:14] <g0d_51gm4> http://imgur.com/4SylrD6
[14:14] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: I know config-changed is run a certain times during certain events, may want to chat with a dev about it, but it sounds like the config-changed hook isn't 100% idempotent?
[14:14] <g0d_51gm4> http://imgur.com/1xJbvyk for the virsh
[14:14] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: it is, you can run it as many times as you want
[14:15] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: then why is there a race condition forming?
[14:15] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: because of the boot!
[14:15] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: which charm - out of curiousity
[14:15] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: during boot, ubuntu starts services
[14:15] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: landscape-server
[14:15] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: so you have two things calling "service sometstuff start"
[14:15] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: config-changed, via juju
[14:15] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: and the boot process of the machine
[14:15] <marcoceppi> Okay, so I follow why there's a race condition. Upstart is bring up a service while config-change is doing the same
[14:15] <ahasenack> right
[14:16] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: why not just do `restart somestuff || start somestuff`
[14:16] <marcoceppi> instead of assuming that you will always need to start it
[14:16] <g0d_51gm4> from the first image if I add a second node and leave that in ready status which is the way to say to juju that is present a new node and how to add it to the same environment?
[14:16] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: we assume that if config-changed was called, something changed
[14:17] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: that's not a valid assumtion
[14:17] <ahasenack> it was, from reading the doc
[14:17] <marcoceppi> any hook can be called at any time for any reason
[14:17] <ahasenack> which also states that config-changed is called everytime the agent is started
[14:17] <marcoceppi> configuration change is just an example where config-changed is envoked
[14:17] <ahasenack> so doc-wise, it's correct
[14:17] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: I wonder how many charms are tested regarding a reboot, though
[14:17] <ahasenack> we all seem so concerned with deployments
[14:18] <marcoceppi> g0d_51gm4: you can do a deploy, or allocate the node with `juju add-machine`
[14:18] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: we are fixing it in our charm, sure. But heads up, a reboot can ruin your day
[14:18] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: good question, not sure, I'll make sure we add it to our testing infrastructure
[14:18] <g0d_51gm4> ok
[14:18] <marcoceppi> tvansteenburgh: ^^
[14:18] <g0d_51gm4> thanks marcoceppi
[14:18] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: we probably hit this because we start several services, like 8 or more
[14:19] <marcoceppi> tvansteenburgh: tl;dr during testing, when we stand up a deployment, we should stop/start the agents on all the machines and see how the charm reacts
[14:19] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: it's a good point to test for, this wasn't always the behaviour in juju
[14:20] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: still, I would question this decision, to have config-changed run at agent start
[14:20] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: if the hooks is coded with the notion that it's called at anytime, and the right idempotency guards are in place, it /shouldn't/ be a problem
[14:20] <g0d_51gm4> any suggest to resolve the problem after the reboot of the host machine?
[14:21] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: I'm not convinced
[14:21] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: the hook can be called as many times as you want
[14:21] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: but sure, an admin could be calling "service foo restart" at the same time config-changed is being run by some other reason
[14:22] <marcoceppi> g0d_51gm4: I've not experienced that issue before, sorry
[14:28] <g0d_51gm4> I've recreated a new virtual environment with MaaS and Juju, I've made the bootstrap of the environment, deployed the juju-gui and until here everything works. I've reboot the host machine re-run all vMaaS environment and used check the juju's status and I've the same problem with juju " ERROR Unable to connect to environment "maas".Please check your credentials or use 'juju bootstrap' to create a new environment".  to resolve that I'
[14:28] <g0d_51gm4> ve always to remove the directories .juju/enviroments and .juju/ssh and re-sync  juju and make the bootstrap again"
[14:28] <lazyPower> g0d_51gm4: do you have your machines configured to only boot over pxe?
[14:29] <lazyPower> you may want to add hdd booting as well to your boot options, so it doesn't re-provision the machine on boot if its assigned. it *shouldnt* be doing that anyway - but its worth investigating.
[14:30] <g0d_51gm4> I've also made that.
[14:33] <g0d_51gm4> I've boot the node with its HD via MaaS, the node status is allocated, ubuntu prompt works:  but if run that command the error is present!!!
[14:33] <lazyPower> can you juju ssh 0?
[14:34] <lazyPower> or ssh into the node and valdiate that the juju processes are running?
[14:34] <lazyPower> show me the output of -  initctl list | grep juju  on your bootstrap node
[14:34] <g0d_51gm4> the ssh connection using its hostname works
[14:39] <g0d_51gm4> the output is "jujud-unit-juju-gui-0 start/running, process 3760
[14:39] <g0d_51gm4> juju-db start/running, process 3667
[14:39] <g0d_51gm4> jujud-machine-0 start/running, process 3645"
[14:41] <g0d_51gm4> I've just stop the node via MaaS and re-start it
[14:41] <lazyPower> if you stopt he node via maas, its going to do a fresh cloud boot
[14:42] <lazyPower> meaning full pxe install, no juju environment will be left on the virtual machine. its pristine, just like you chose to spin up a new VM on a public cloud.
[15:03] <g0d_51gm4> just a second in the same time i've added also the second node and used the command marcocepppi suggested me before
[15:03] <g0d_51gm4> and the ubuntu's installer is started
[15:05] <g0d_51gm4> in case i've 2 juju environment (maas0 and maas1) to add the new node to maas2 int the command juju add-machine I've to specify some other parameter?
[15:26] <schegi> does anyone know how to force juju to use a certain network interface? i got a setup with 3 different networks 2 Bonds over 2 1GBit networks and 2 10GBit networks. I like juju to use one of the 1 Gig bonds but it always uses the 10GBit interfaces, when using e.g. juju ssh X. This also leads to charms identifying themselves with this particular interface.
[15:26] <rbasak> sinzui: around? On SRU review, arges found 1) a binary in the upstream tarball for 1.18.4, and 2) that it changed from 1.18.1.
[15:26] <g0d_51gm4> lazyPower: i'm rebooting the host machine see y after few seconds
[15:26] <rbasak> sinzui: pkg/linux_amd64/github.com/errgo/errgo.a
[15:29] <sinzui> rbasak, The cause is fixed, but was not fixed until a few weeks. The devs or golang changed something to get that crack.
[15:29] <sinzui> rbasak, The fix was to rm pkg/* when the tarball is assembled. It is safe to do so
[15:30] <sinzui> rbasak, I also think it is safe to stab the person golang for doing that non-sense
[15:36] <rbasak> sinzui: thanks. Coordinated in #ubuntu-release, the conclusion is that I'll repack the tarball with the file missing for the Trusty SRU, as a one-off.
[15:37] <sinzui> rbasak, thank you +1
[15:43] <rbasak> sinzui: I can delete the pkg/ directory itself too, I take it
[15:43] <rbasak> ?
[15:50] <g0d_51gm4> lazyPower: the same error http://paste.ubuntu.com/7799040/
[15:51] <lazyPower> g0d_51gm4: i'm not sure what to recommend at this point. I would reach out via the juju mailing list and see if another member has run into this scenario before.
[15:54] <g0d_51gm4> if i remove the directories ./juju/environments, .juju/ssh and run the commands "juju sync-tools -e maas" and "juju bootstrap -e maas --debug" it juju bootstrajuju bootstrap -e maas --debug it restart the node and install ubuntu
[16:31] <g0d_51gm4> lazypower: it's incredible but also for  the third time i've received the same error!!!i don't know where is the problem with that!!!
[16:32] <lazyPower> g0d_51gm4: it really sounds like something is going on with your vm's thats wiping out the juju env, or replacing the ssh key
[16:32] <lazyPower> thats the only thing i can think of, but i dont know what it would be
[16:56] <rharper> is there any control over when juju bridges eth0 for containers ?  like a value in environments.yaml ?
[17:02] <marcoceppi> rharper: I believe so, but I think it's undcoumented, let met take a look at the source code
[17:04] <rharper> marcoceppi: do you know it wouldn't by default?  I've got an openstack environment I'm deploying to; and it's not bridging eth0 by default, so containers come up on lxcbr0 (10.0.3.x) -- but I really want it to bridge eth0 so the public ip comes from the same network as the host
[17:05] <rharper> when I use a maas provider, it does this "automatically"
[18:03] <alexisb> rharper, I know they are not online right now but that is a good question for dimiter and jam
[18:04] <alexisb> fwereade, may be around and could potentially have a quick answer for you
[18:04] <rharper> alexisb: cool, thanks.
[18:05] <alexisb> rharper, feel free to send dimiter mail
[18:05] <rharper> ok
[18:38] <data> hey, I have googled high and low, but is it possible to do mixed deployments in juju? Because I have so far set up a dozen services "locally" in VMs (maas provisioning), but would like to add other, preexisting servers to it (manual provisioning).
[18:54] <sebas5384> juju-local can be installed into a debian machine?
[18:58] <sebas5384> its being quite around here lately hehe
[19:10] <sebas5384> jcastro: ping
[19:11] <jcastro> sebas5384, hi!
[19:11] <sebas5384> hey jcastro o/
[19:11] <lazyPower> data: manual provider will give you that level of mixed deployments you're looking for
[19:12] <sebas5384> today we are going to install juju-local in more than 10 pcs
[19:12] <sebas5384> :D
[19:12] <sebas5384> but!! there are some with debian
[19:12] <sebas5384> some tip about that?
[19:12] <sebas5384> jcastro: :)
[19:12] <sebas5384> hey lazyPower o/
[19:12] <schegi> jamespage?
[19:13] <lazyPower> hey sebas5384
[19:14] <schegi> jamespage, will redeploy ceph this evening, have bzr updated your ceph/ceph-osd network-split, but nothing new. can you commit pls
[19:16] <data> lazyPower: So if I add that environment, will the two be shared?
[19:16] <lazyPower> right, in the manual provider tehre are no real limitations. You can have machines in different datacenters entirely
[19:16] <lazyPower> lag will be a factor
[19:17] <lazyPower> but its perfectly reasonable to deploy into say, digital ocean and aws and your in-house maas cluster (assuming it hs the proepr networking to reach all these instances)
[19:17] <data> k. It's more about ease of deployment for now. It's just for development
[19:17] <lazyPower> be careful about adding existing nodes that are dirty to juju though
[19:17] <data> What do you mean by dirty?
[19:17] <lazyPower> charms always assume a clean cloud image, so if you go adding your corporate ERP server to juju, and deploy something on it, it may do something unintended
[19:17] <jcastro> sebas5384, I don't think anyone's tried it before
[19:18] <lazyPower> jcastro: back in 2012 there were some articles on it, iw ent looking
[19:18] <data> None of the servers are production servers. Not exactly virgin some of them, but not too bad
[19:18] <lazyPower> i didn't find anything recent post teh go-port on getting juju running.
[19:18] <lazyPower> (on debian)
[19:18] <jcastro> lazyPower, was it me posting on the debian-cloud list asking for someone to help on it? :)
[19:19] <lazyPower> uhm, nope, it was a couple blog posts, some comments on MS's blog, and debian bugs against a package that no longer exists
[19:19] <sebas5384> shouldn't be like adding some repositories and that kind of stuff?
[19:19] <jcastro> oh, that was the pyju client in debian
[19:19] <jcastro> not supporting debian as a deployable OS, which is what he wants
[19:20] <sebas5384> jcastro: by deployable OS you are saying like, installing juju-local and running charms into lxc containers, right?
[19:20] <jcastro> right
[19:20] <sebas5384> jcastro: ahh ok :)
[19:21] <sebas5384> then its exactly what i want
[19:21] <sebas5384> htht
[19:21] <sebas5384> hehe
[19:21] <lazyPower> i think the components are there, but its largely untested.
[19:21] <lazyPower> i would give it a go in a manual provider environment
[19:21] <sebas5384> yeah thats going to be a problem
[19:22] <sebas5384> troubleshooting is going to by a pain in the a**
[19:23] <data> while I am here: I had this problem yesterday that juju didn't continue with anything because it was waiting for a server to finish dieing. problem was that the server didn't exist anymore
[19:24] <lazyPower> did you destroy the machine with a --force
[19:24] <lazyPower> and then destroy the service data?
[19:24] <lazyPower> often times, i find that hooks get trapped in a failed relationship cycle
[19:24] <lazyPower> and resolving the relationship bits, after having destroyed the machine with extreme predjudice, works pretty well
[19:25] <data> it was something like that, I believe. Are you talking about some kind of "service data" or was it another implication of my unfortunate nick :)
[19:25] <data> I could not figure it out and completely destroyed the environment
[19:26] <lazyPower> unfortunate implication of the nickname :)
[20:14] <jrwren> what is a good way to test a relation-broken hook?
[20:23] <jose> jrwren: I'd say deploying, relating and destroying the relation?
[20:24] <jrwren> that does a that does a relation-departed, different from broken, AFAIK
[20:25] <jose> jrwren: I think it's just an alias, though I'm not entirely sure
[20:40] <ahasenack> hi, which package has this command:
[20:40] <ahasenack> andreas@nsn7:~/charms/trusty/ntp$ make sync
[20:40] <ahasenack> make: charm-helper-sync: Command not found
[21:45] <schegi__> hey if i bootstrap a maas environemt and later deploy a service in an lxc container and like the container to use a predefined bridge (br0) on the server. how to define the bridge device
[21:52] <dergrunepunkt> Hi, using maas I run "juju bootstrap" and when de node boots starts the ubuntu installation
[21:52] <dergrunepunkt> ideas?
[22:02] <thumper> dergrunepunkt: that is what maas does
[22:03] <dergrunepunkt> I know
[22:03] <thumper> I'm not sure what you are asking
[22:03] <dergrunepunkt> but it souldnt do it over and over and over again
[22:03] <thumper> yeah, that sounds wrong :)
[22:03] <dergrunepunkt> maas shoud do it once
[22:04] <dergrunepunkt> once the node it's installed it shouldn't install the operating system again
[22:05] <dergrunepunkt> thumper: I have 3 nodes in the "Ready" state, and when run "juju bootstrap" bloody maas wants to install the operating system again
[22:06]  * thumper doesn't know much about maas
[23:09] <schegi__> dergruenepunkt, before bootstrapping no system is installed, it justs boots to a pxe image and during commisioning only information about the server is collected and impi user is created.
[23:09] <schegi__> ready state only means that the node is ready for deployment, if you mean ready in maas.


[12:41] <Who_> hi all
[12:41] <Who_> can someone help me with some drawing in Inkscape
[12:42] <Who_> I am trying to draw some liquid...
[02:23] <Who_> anyone know how to use the 'mask' feature in inkscape?
[02:24] <Who_> I want to use it like Gimp's mask
[03:03] <troy_s> who_
[03:03] <Who_> hi troy_s:
[03:03] <troy_s> you need to learn layers bor
[03:03] <troy_s> bro
[03:03] <troy_s> that was a brutal svg :)
[03:04] <troy_s> and what mask feature are you trying to use?
[03:04] <Who_> I got the mask feature ok (in Inkscape)
[03:05] <Who_> ...tell me more about layers - as I was doing it I kept thinking 'I wonder if layers would mean I could select things more easily'
[03:05] <Who_> or 'I guess this background stuff should all be on one layer' :P
[03:05] <Who_> but it didn't seem to happen :P
[03:06] <Who_> I have been thinking for phrases relating to Blubuntu - I think technical, clean, scientific are some early indicators
[03:06] <troy_s> are you providing some sort of output for the request?
[03:07] <Who_> Well, I was going to use the human buttons in website colours....
[03:07] <Who_> not tonight though, I have been Blubuntuing tonight and now it is very close to bed time
[03:08] <troy_s> eek
[03:08] <troy_s> it would be nice to demonstrate some of our professionalism by providing at least a potential starting point in svg
[03:09] <Who_> oh, yea, I was going to use svg - just the style from the human theme
[03:10] <Who_> I have been working on the hardest SVG I've ever done tonight
[03:27] <troy_s> eeke
[03:27] <troy_s> doesn't sound too proposaly there Who_...
[03:28] <Who_> it is for Blubuntu - I need to know if I could do a paticular effect
[03:28] <Who_> troy_s: I sort of can :)
[03:29] <Who_> troy_s; and I am a bit 'proposaled out' since the lsplashes
[03:29] <Who_> (don't worry, I will certainly do much more proposing - I just need a quick break :P)
[03:31] <troy_s> LOL
[03:44] <Who_> troy_s: using masks you can make some _funky_ gradients in inkscape
[03:44] <Who_> it has come along so much recently
[03:45] <Who_> suspiciously close to Xara's release
[03:45] <Who_> hi Viper
[03:45] <Viper550> Hello...
[03:45] <Viper550> I'm trying to take Tropic in a new direction...away from the Green scheme and off to a pure Orange look
[03:46] <troy_s> Lord.
[03:46] <troy_s> Viper... think.
[03:46] <troy_s> Take a week.  Think about it.
[03:47] <troy_s> Hrm.. version .44 Who_ ?
[03:47] <Who_> troy_s: yea
[03:47] <Viper550> I made that decision way before I said that...
[03:47] <troy_s> what is the font that looks like the ubuntu
[03:47] <Viper550> ubuntu-title-font
[03:47] <troy_s> font but plus the tails.
[03:47] <Who_> ubuntu title
[03:47] <Viper550> Well, I was close, ubuntu-title
[03:49] <Who_> troy_s: try applying a linera gradient mask to a radial gradient
[03:49] <Who_> it is very funky
[03:51] <Who_> what are you playing with, troy_s
[03:53] <troy_s> hrm...
[03:53] <troy_s> i am trying to pound out exactly three VERY loose button variants.
[03:53] <troy_s> then i am going to post an activism post to the damn list
[03:54] <troy_s> because having the documentation team ask for help
[03:54] <troy_s> and have zero replies is just plain
[03:54] <troy_s> shoddy
[03:54] <troy_s> how do i make an inverse mask who?
[03:55] <Who_> what do you mean by inverse?
[03:56] <Who_> do you want me to do some buttons quickly
[03:56] <Who_> ?
[03:56] <troy_s> i would love it if you could...
[03:56] <Who_> a mask that inverts things?
[03:56] <troy_s> you and i can stick on three each
[03:56] <troy_s> VERY loose
[03:56] <Who_> we'll call them 3 AM buttons :P
[03:56] <troy_s> and simply state that they are very loose and pick a direction and we will finish em
[03:56] <troy_s> VERY loose :)
[03:56] <troy_s> i just got off work
[03:56] <troy_s> bloody hell.
[03:57] <troy_s> inverse
[03:57] <Who_> okay, what do yours look like?
[03:57] <troy_s> meaning imagine i have a rounded rectangle
[03:57] <troy_s> mine are rounded rectangle
[03:57] <troy_s> basically
[03:57] <troy_s> with a gloss hit on top
[03:57] <troy_s> and maybe a who hill stripe
[03:57] <troy_s> with a grad.
[03:57] <Who_> okay, that's what mine werer going to be like :P - just like the Human buttons
[03:57] <troy_s> like i said, damn loose...
[03:57] <troy_s> but then i will try to give three simple directions
[03:57] <troy_s> yeah
[03:57] <troy_s> something like that...
[03:57] <troy_s> try it
[03:58] <Who_> okay, well, I'll try some other things quickly
[03:59] <Who_> I'm going to adapt my lozenge
[03:59] <Viper550> Guess what, I've got a screenshot of the next build of Tropic on the wiki page now.
[04:01] <Who_> link?
[04:01] <Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
[04:02] <Viper550> I assumed for a moment that you already knew...but, just in case you forgot
[04:02] <Who_> Viper550, have you thought about some of the other elements of your theme - remember Mark made it clear that completeness would me a major factor when it came to decifing what would be included
[04:02] <Viper550> Yes, I have, I'm going to adapt one of my splash screen propositions for the splash screen, and I've got a pretty nice wallpaper ready for it too
[04:06] <troy_s> Who_, let me remind you on how to do a quick cutout later okie?
[04:10] <Who_> troy_s: hold on...you want me to remind you to show me a quick cutout...?
[04:18] <Who_> to whoever is listening, I'd love an opinion on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu/BlubuntuWallpaper
[04:18] <Who_> the new mercury ones, specifically
[04:26] <troy_s> yah
[04:26] <troy_s> i'm here.
[04:26] <troy_s> who_s
[04:26] <troy_s> Who_,
[04:26] <Who_> yea, troy_s
[04:27] <troy_s> helmet's image is quite good.
[04:27] <troy_s> your mercury blobs need to evolve a little... the gloss is starting though
[04:27] <Who_> they took me ages
[04:27] <troy_s> first, you need to liquify the blobs -- not just circle them
[04:27] <Who_> I think helmets image is not likely to be a) available in larger sizes and b) free
[04:27] <troy_s> second, you might want to put a chrome kick across them
[04:28] <Who_> liquify?
[04:28] <troy_s> (as a starting point (helmets)
[04:28] <troy_s> uh... damn...
[04:28] <troy_s> WE REALLY NEED  A WHITEBOARD APP!!!
[04:28] <troy_s> is there an opensource whiteboard app????????????
[04:28] <Who_> they are SVGs at the moment
[04:28] <Who_> yea, true, we do!
[04:28] <troy_s> i know, but i can't sketch here.
[04:28] <troy_s> this blows.
[04:28] <Who_> there must be a free whiteboard...
[04:28] <troy_s> no kidding
[04:28] <Who_> can you deskcribe?
[04:31] <Who_> oh...you were suggesting I use Helmet's stuff to help me make the mercury blobs look more liquid....ye, great idea :) they are much easier to SVGise than some of the photos I got...
[04:31] <Who_> though, if all the pictures of mercury I found are correct, mercury does normally end up in round bubbles
[04:31] <troy_s> phew
[04:31] <troy_s> got one.
[04:31] <troy_s> no
[04:31] <troy_s> i was saying helmet
[04:31] <troy_s> was a good starting point for something possibly
[04:32] <Who_> oh, okay
[04:32] <troy_s> found a whiteboard
[04:32] <Who_> rendering that in SVG would make me cry
[04:32] <Who_> okie, link me
[04:33] <troy_s> http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben/
[04:33] <troy_s> looking into inkscapes... does it work?
[04:33] <Who_> inkscape's what?
[04:34] <troy_s> inkscape has a collaboration mode
[04:34] <troy_s> but i don't think it is finished
[04:34] <troy_s> downloading the sourceball.
[04:37] <troy_s> cvs checkout happening now
[04:42] <troy_s> this blows
[04:42] <troy_s> how do you get the inkscape whiteboard working???
[04:44] <troy_s> Who_,  you there?
[04:44] <Who_> troy_s: yea, here, but never used inkscape whiteboard....
[04:44] <Who_> perhpas just use something like
[04:45] <Who_> http://www.imaginationcubed.com/LaunchPage
[04:45] <troy_s> well inkscape has inkboard
[04:45] <troy_s> google for it...
[04:45] <troy_s> its a plugin
[04:45] <troy_s> and i am a 64bit dual core
[04:45] <troy_s> no flash
[04:46] <Who_> it is 4AM here now - I really need to go to bed
[04:46] <Who_> can we resume tomorrow
[04:47] <Who_> I will have to submit those buttons in the morning (I have 1 now, but it is oh, so simple
[04:48] <troy_s> yep
[04:48] <troy_s> laf.
[04:48] <troy_s> morrow... i'll look into inkboard
[05:09] <Who_> just sent some buttons
[05:10] <Who_> night
[11:59] <mhb> hi everyone
[03:59] <Viper550> Hello everyone
[04:00] <kwwii> howdy Viper550
[04:01] <Viper550> I was tweaking Tropic just right now, wanna see?
[04:01] <Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
[04:30] <kwwii> looking better and better
[04:30] <kwwii> I'm off now...bbl
[09:26] <Viper550> Hello
[10:33] <newz2000> there's something anoying me about Ubuntu/Gnome compared to windows...
[10:33] <newz2000> its within the power of the art-team to affect it.
[10:33] <kwwii> re
[10:33] <newz2000> the amount of lost screen real estate lost on gnome/ubuntu compared to windows
[10:34] <newz2000> Should I make a spec or should I send a msg to the mailing list first?
[10:34] <kwwii> newz2000: screen real estate lost through what?
[10:34] <newz2000> slightly larger chrome and tool bars
[10:35] <kwwii> you mean window deco and tool bar size?
[10:35] <newz2000> yes. http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/tmp/window-chrome.png
[10:36] <kwwii> I think if you look at that pic closely you will see more than losing screen real estate
[10:36] <kwwii> they use theirs more efficiently
[10:36] <kwwii> the panel is much smaller and better spaced
[10:36] <kwwii> while the window corners (the dragable area) is much bigger
[10:37] <newz2000> they is Windows, right?
[10:38] <kwwii> yepp
[10:38] <kwwii> hehe, who "they" is for a kde user is kinda hard to decide, eh?
[10:38] <kwwii> :-)
[10:38] <newz2000> yes.
[10:38] <kwwii> lol
[10:38] <newz2000> Its been tricky to describe... I bought a new laptop when I came to canonical and lost my old one from my previous employer...
[10:39] <newz2000> I went down from 1920x1400 to 1280x800.
[10:39] <kwwii> if you did the same with kde I bet you would get even worse results
[10:39] <newz2000> So it was quite a change. But still, it feels cluttered and cramped.
[10:39] <newz2000> I've not used KDE for a while so can't comment much.
[10:39] <kwwii> believe me, gnome does better in this respect
[10:40] <kwwii> yeah, I moved from a bigger laptop when working for suse to a smaller one afterwards as well
[10:40] <newz2000> Oh, you worked for Suse?
[10:40] <kwwii> and it took me a while to get used to it, I kept changing the panel size/hiding, font size, etc.
[10:40] <kwwii> I did all the suse graphics for 7 years :-)
[10:41] <newz2000> That's cool. Why'd you leave?
[10:41] <kwwii> the decision not to support and develop kde anymore
[10:42] <newz2000> Ah. When Novel/Ximian took over.
[10:42] <newz2000> I hadn't heard that Suse officially abandoned KDE. I figured it would happen though.
[10:44] <kwwii> well, it is pretty much unofficial but it already happened
[10:44] <kwwii> the thing is this: lots of suse employees wok on it on the side anyway
[10:45] <newz2000> Do you still work for Suse?
[10:45] <kwwii> nope, although novell offered me a contract to make their website design I turned it down
[10:45] <newz2000> oh too bad. They need it.
[10:45] <kwwii> suse is dead for me
[10:45] <kwwii> hehe, I made the opensuse site, and I know exactly what kind of shit is involved in it
[10:46] <kwwii> better to stay out of that mess (although you can earn a lot of money)
[10:46] <kwwii> the whole team who makes their website is now an external company
[10:46] <kwwii> they fired them all
[10:46] <kwwii> and they made their own company
[10:46] <kwwii> and then novell paid even more to hire that company to do the work
[10:46] <newz2000> classic
[10:46] <newz2000> :D
[10:46] <kwwii> and the same thing almost happened to me, but I decided to take a step away
[10:47] <newz2000> Not to rub salt in the wound, Are there any other major desktops besides Kubuntu that ship with KDE as the default now?
[10:47] <kwwii> linspire and xandros are the two "big" ones that come to mind
[10:47] <kwwii> mandriva of course
[10:48] <kwwii> and lots of smaller ones
[10:48] <kwwii> that is the major difference between gnome and kde today, I think
[10:48] <kwwii> gnome is funded by a few really big companies
[10:48] <kwwii> and kde is funded by a lot of small companies
[10:48] <newz2000> Yeah
[10:48] <kwwii> kde sees that as a strength not a weakness
[10:48] <newz2000> I wish we could pick the best from both of them.
[10:49] <newz2000> I'd rather code for KDE and I think it has better eye candy, but I think gnome is more usable.
[10:49] <kwwii> in the end, to be really honest, what is good for one is often good for the other (at least in the long run)
[10:49] <newz2000> I just hate glib though.
[10:49] <kwwii> there really is only one linux desktop
[10:49] <kwwii> kde and gnome are part of both of them
[10:49] <kwwii> hehe, "are both part of it"
[10:50] <kwwii> let's talk about gnome and kde in 50 years and I bet we will all have a good lauch
[10:50] <kwwii> laugh
[10:50] <newz2000> yeah
[10:51] <newz2000> So is the proper protocol to create a spec first or to discuss issues on the ml first?
[10:51] <newz2000> (back to the chrome thing)
[10:54] <kwwii> hrm, good question
[10:54] <kwwii> perhaps make a bug
[10:54] <kwwii> and then a spec to improve on it
[10:54] <kwwii> or a wiki page describing the problem
[10:55] <kwwii> and a spec to iimprove it
[10:55] <newz2000> Ah. That's probably a good place to start
[10:55] <newz2000> That sounds like a good plan
[10:55] <kwwii> I guess the problem is really in the theme makers hands
[10:55] <kwwii> and perhaps a bit of developement
[10:55] <newz2000> I wasn't sure about who can fix it... since we're doing new themes I thought it would be good to suggest here.
[10:55] <kwwii> definitely
[10:56] <kwwii> things like the window borders are all up to the theme
[10:56] <kwwii> the panel size setting is up to a developer settings, etc, as is the font size, etc.
[10:57] <newz2000> Hmm... bummer. Thats where the most space is lost.
[10:57] <kwwii> yepp, in kde we have the opposite problem
[10:58] <kwwii> jonathan made the size so small per defualt that on some systems it cuts off the bottom of the icons in the panel :p
[10:59] <kwwii> he made the spacing 0 I think
[10:59] <newz2000> No margin for error there
[11:01] <kwwii> exactly
[11:01] <kwwii> honestly, I like the kubuntu panel much better than the default kde panel, but it could still be a bit better
[11:03] <newz2000> I've always felt like there was too much crammed into too little space on the kde panel.
[11:03] <newz2000> Admittedly its been awhile since I've used it
[11:20] <kwwii> the shitty arrows showing that an icon is a drawer in kde SUCK
[11:22] <newz2000> Well, you are the art-team lead for kubuntu
[11:24] <kwwii> hehe
[11:24] <kwwii> yeah, but that is something that is being addressed in kde4
[11:24] <mhb> kwwii: what icon exactly?
[11:24] <mhb> kwwii: name?
[11:24] <kwwii> mhb: not an icon, it is an overlay for a drawer
[11:24] <kwwii> check the kmenu or the System Menu
[11:25] <kwwii> those little arrows simply suck
[11:25] <kwwii> I would rather make the icon more rectangular to show that it is a drawer graphically
[11:25] <kwwii> anyone here know how to install java on ppc?
[11:26] <newz2000> Good luck with that
[11:26] <newz2000> did you try java.sun.com?
[11:27] <mhb> 1~
[11:27] <mhb> sorry
[11:28] <kwwii> newz2000: hehe, I wanted to simply install it and keep writing my script
[11:28] <kwwii> not work for an hour on figuring out how to install it
[11:29] <newz2000> If you have multiverse you can install java using apt I think.
[11:29] <kwwii> I have osx with all the stuff installed already...I'll write the script there and assume that those that run it have a working java installed
[11:29] <kwwii> newz2000: apparently not on ppc
[11:29] <kwwii> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:29] <kwwii>   sun-java5-jre: Depends: sun-java5-bin (= 1.5.0-06-1) but it is not installable                                               or
[11:29] <kwwii>                           ia32-sun-java5-bin (= 1.5.0-06-1) but it is not instal                                              lable
[11:29] <kwwii> E: Broken packages
[11:30] <kwwii> fscked up
[11:30] <newz2000> if they have it at java.sun.com you just download, chmod +x java...bin and then ./java...bin
[11:30] <newz2000> but I don't know if they have it there
[11:33] <kwwii> too late, I already started editing it on the other machine
[11:33] <kwwii> it is only a small change, so do not feel so bad
[11:33] <kwwii> :-)
[11:33] <kwwii> changing the render engine for the script
[11:33] <newz2000> My feelings aren't hurt. I rarely use java
[11:34] <newz2000> Well, I use eclipse a lot, but I rarely write java
[11:35] <kwwii> I am only calling a class in a bash script, don't worry
[11:35] <newz2000> xalan by chance?
[11:36] <newz2000> oops
[11:37] <newz2000> don't press ctrl+w
[11:49] <kwwii> batik, acutally
[11:49] <kwwii> actually
[11:49] <kwwii> it seems to work, so far
[11:49] <kwwii> it is nasty work on the console in osx
[11:50] <kwwii> unless you have a decent setup of course
[11:50] <kwwii> linux is so much better in that aspect
[11:54] <kwwii> hehe, so now the script calls every svg in a singular java session
[11:54] <kwwii> great
[11:54] <kwwii> erm
[11:54] <kwwii> this is getting beyond my interest level
[11:54] <kwwii> hehe
[11:56] <mhb> :o)
[11:56] <kwwii> dude, are you good at shell scripting?
[11:57] <kwwii> I could figure this out tomorrow, with time I guess, but tonight I am too worn out to worry
[11:58] <kwwii> I will simply let the script run as is and be happy for now
[11:58] <kwwii> check on the results, tweak the settings, etc
[11:58] <kwwii> and worry about cpu usage tomorrow
[11:59] <kwwii> erm, actually it is probably the disk hits that are worse than the cpu usage
[11:59] <kwwii> read/write stuff loading and unloading
[11:59] <mhb> :o))
[12:00] <kwwii> you like seeing an artist fsck up his own script, eh?
[12:00] <kwwii> :-)
[12:01] <mhb> yay!
[12:01] <kwwii> and to watch him dance around in chat like the next idiot on the street
[12:01] <kwwii> :p
[12:01] <mhb> it's better to let the anger come out of you :o)
[12:02] <kwwii> well, other than the fact that it takes 10x as long to make the theme as before, batik is working great
[12:02] <kwwii> might want to raise that to 100x


[00:11] <abentley> Yeah, we be hardcore.  But how come it's not listed in Gutsy's /etc/services?
[01:28] <jroes> how do I revert to a specific revision?
[01:30] <lifeless> revert -r revno
[01:31] <jroes> where would that be documented? :)
[01:31] <lifeless> bzr help revert
[01:31] <AfC> bzr help revert
[01:31] <lifeless> as well as the man page and IIRC users guide too
[01:31] <AfC> "Come join #bzr, the channel with attitude for the tool with attitude"
[01:32] <lifeless> :)
[01:32] <jroes> cool :)
[01:38] <jroes> thanks guys, not sure why I couldn't find it
[02:59] <Rotund> I have some questions.
[03:00] <Rotund> Is it costly to push from a repository (init-repo) to a branch not in the repo?
[03:01] <radix> Rotund: you mean, push a branch which is sitting in an existing repository to somewhere else? yep
[03:01] <radix> Rotund: you can push it anywhere you want, including other shared repositories
[03:02] <radix> oh. I should read *all* the words
[03:02] <Rotund> Would that be more expensive than pushing from one branch not in a repo to another that is not in a repo
[03:02] <radix> Rotund: so, if you're pushing to an existing branch, only the new revisions will be sent
[03:02] <radix> so it can be very fast
[03:02] <radix> if the other side has most of the revisions already
[03:03] <Rotund> I'm not finding that to be the case
[03:03] <poolie> igc, hi?
[03:03] <radix> and you can even push into remote repositories, so even if you're creating a new branch it can be fast if the repository has most of the revisions.
[03:03] <igc> hi poolie
[03:03] <Rotund> I have a collection of drupal sites I'm managing with bzr
[03:04] <Rotund> I have a "base install" and each site gets a branch.
[03:04] <Rotund> I make changes to the base.  Go to each website and merge
[03:05] <Rotund> FAST great (they are in a shared repository).
[03:05] <poolie> igc, would 9am tomorrow be ok for a standup meeting?
[03:05] <Rotund> Now pushing those changes to an already created repository is pretty costly
[03:05] <poolie> actually, 9am daily starting tomorrow?
[03:05] <igc> poolie: my 9am or your 9am?
[03:05] <poolie> yours
[03:05] <igc> yes
[03:06] <poolie> cool
[03:06] <igc> I was expecting one today :-)
[03:06] <Rotund> I've tried sftp, bzr (running a server), and bzr+ssh.  All seem to take 2+ minutes to push just a module change
[03:06] <radix> so you've got something like site-repo/{base,website1,website2,website3} ?
[03:06] <igc> poolie: this channel?
[03:06] <Rotund> radix: exactly
[03:06] <radix> Rotund: and it gets slow when you push what to where?
[03:07] <Rotund> I now need to push from my local (my computer) branch to the server's branch
[03:07] <radix> Rotund: ah, do you have this structure mirrored on your local computer and on the server?
[03:07] <Rotund> yup
[03:08] <Rotund> I don't have it bound (is that the term?)
[03:08] <radix> Rotund: ok. and are you extra-sure that both sides have the shared repository in the parent directory? there should be a .bzr there
[03:08] <Rotund> would that help?
[03:08] <radix> Rotund: binding shouldn't matter
[03:08] <radix> i.e. site-repo/.bzr
[03:08] <Rotund> only one side has the shared-repo
[03:09] <radix> Rotund: I'm not exactly sure what kind of operation you're doing, but making both sides shared can vastly increase speed of some operations
[03:09] <Rotund> is there an added penalty for having one side shared and the other not?
[03:09] <radix> notably, pushing up new branches
[03:09] <Rotund> I'm just pushing changes though (version 8->9 for instance)
[03:09] <radix> hm. to an existing branch?
[03:09] <radix> in that case, it should be fast no matter what your shared repo setup
[03:10] <Rotund> That's what I would've thought
[03:10] <radix> 2 minutes definitely sounds weird, for just one revision. are the revisions large?
[03:10] <Rotund> 933K
[03:10] <radix> Rotund: is it made up of many small files?
[03:11] <Rotund> it is 42 files
[03:12] <radix> 933k isn't exactly a light revision, but I guess this is the point where my knowledge reaches its limit
[03:12] <Rotund> I've done things like 1 big file and it'll end up 20 min +
[03:12] <radix> Rotund: what kind of bandwidth and latency do you generally get between these hosts?
[03:13] <Rotund> big = ~3 MB
[03:13] <Rotund> I'm not sure.  It's dreamhost
[03:14] <Rotund> gonna test... one sec
[03:15] <Rotund> ouch.  50KB.
[03:15] <Rotund> Hmmm.  That's awful.
[03:15] <radix> that's plenty fast for uploading 3MB :)
[03:16] <radix> way faster than 20 minutes, anyway
[03:16] <Rotund> Though, I'm still getting the file in ~6 min
[03:16] <Rotund> (Testing a 25 MB one)
[03:16] <Rotund> I just walked away for that
[03:17] <Rotund> It's typically the fetch stage that kills me
[03:17] <Rotund> (stage 1)
[03:18] <Rotund> Is that the actual transfer?
[03:19] <Rotund> If so, I guess I could live with it.
[03:19] <radix> I assume it is
[03:19] <Rotund> okay.  Well, thanks
[03:20] <Rotund> BTW: I'm all hyped for PyCon this year =)
[03:20] <radix> Mph. I guess I'm probably not going to be there.
[03:20] <Rotund> They have a week before and after for sprinting, right?
[03:20] <Rotund> Why not?
[03:21] <warren> How good is the bzr to CVS export tools?
[03:21] <warren> Can they relied upon in an automated way...
[03:22] <abentley> You mean converting from bazaar to CVS?
[03:22] <warren> Yes.
[03:22] <Rotund> That was my question
[03:22] <radix> Rotund: a friend of mine (who would also be at pycon were it not for this) is getting married :)
[03:22] <Rotund> radix: were they there this year?
[03:23] <abentley> Okay, well, I have no idea about that.
[03:23] <Rotund> Man, I may have to find someone else to bug all the time now =(  ;)
[03:23] <radix> Rotund: glyph was.
[03:24] <radix> Rotund: heh. it was pretty good convo last year.
[03:24] <Rotund> glyph's getting married?
[03:24] <radix> righto.
[03:24] <radix> Rotund: I hope your game projects are going well, btw :)
[03:24] <Rotund> radix: Wow.  And he chose PyCon to do it during?  Why am I hearing the cracking of whips over and over ;)
[03:25] <radix> heh heh
[03:25] <Rotund> radix: so is most of the Twisted guys gonna be MIA?
[03:26] <radix> I imagine there will be a weakened presence this year.
[03:26] <Rotund> radix: I wish... unfortunately, real world work is taking all my time
[03:26] <radix> Rotund: stupid real world.
[03:26] <Rotund> radix: Though, I've been doing quite a bit of Python training and evangelism
[03:27] <Rotund> radix: Many of our customers are switching to python
[03:27] <radix> excellent
[03:27] <jam> warren: are you saying the conversion tools, or the one that lets a CVS user checkout files from a Bazaar branch
[03:27] <warren> jam, conversion
[03:27] <jam> (AFAIK they are readonly, but reasonably good)
[03:27] <warren> ah, didn't know the latter existed
[03:27] <jam> I don't know of any specific converters that start with Bazaar and go to CVS
[03:27] <warren> oh
[03:27] <jam> I suppose Tailor would be an any-to-any
[03:28] <Rotund> radix: Honeywell, Rockwell Collins, (testing for both) and most of the tools used for the 787 are Python (though I don't think I've seen Twisted)
[03:28] <jam> https://launchpad.net/bzrcvsserve
[03:29] <Rotund> radix: well, that real world thing is calling.  have a good one.
[03:29] <radix> you too man. take it easy.
[03:30] <jam> Rotund: fun to hear about Rockwell Collins, I interned there for a summer for the Large Format Displays on the 767
[03:31] <jam> IIRC they were looking at Python because its license was better than Perl
[03:31] <jam> (being BSD rather than a form of GPL meant it was more obvious that it wouldn't invade accidentally)
[04:04]  * igc lunch
[07:10] <ubotu> New bug: #163995 in bzr "Re: bzr register-branch is undocumented in manpage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163995
[08:23] <AfC> So notwithstanding the email thread on the topic, should I be telling people to `bzr branch` or `bzr clone` when downloading the sources (for the first time)?
[08:23] <lifeless> branch
[08:23] <lifeless> here's how I describe it
[08:23] <lifeless> 'if you want a mirror that you won't edit, do 'bzr checkout''
[08:24] <lifeless> 'if you want to start a new line of development, to hack on the code yourself, do 'bzr branch''
[08:25] <lifeless> (for the former, use bzr update to keep the mirror up to date, for the latter use bzr merge to incorporate changes from the origin)
[08:33] <jamesh> I wonder if people would complain if "bzr fork" was an alias for "bzr branch"?
[08:40] <fullermd> fork should do more than just branch, though.  It should send of a fiery "screw you guys, I'm going home" mail to the project's mailing list.
[08:40] <fullermd> Obviously another address we need to store in branch metadata...
[09:03] <AfC> lifeless: (actually I was asking about `clone` vs `branch`, not `checkout` vs `branch`) abentley was pretty adamant that clone and branch behave differently, which was rather an interesting surprise.
[09:05] <AfC> Meanwhile, you know how you look at the generated Index listing on a web server for a directory with a Bazaar Branch present, but no Working Tree, and it looks to a lay person like nothing is there? I had some fun this afternoon and scratched an itch:
[09:06] <AfC> http://research.operationaldynamics.com/bzr/java-gnome/mainline/
[09:11] <mwhudson> AfC: neat
[09:11] <mwhudson> for launchpad we were thinking of running codebrowse from the same url space as the branch
[09:12] <AfC> mwhudson: yeah, that works too
[09:12] <lifeless> AfC: abentley said that the internals differ for the 'sprout' and 'clone' apis.
[09:12] <AfC> mwhudson: I had a darcsweb installation before, but at a different URL space
[09:12] <lifeless> AfC: at the ui clone is an alias for branch.
[09:13] <AfC> lifeless: oh. Ok. I will stick with clone, then.
[09:13] <lifeless> AfC: saying 'branch' is really better IMO
[09:13] <AfC> lifeless: (he really made it sound like there was some difference having to do with Working Trees or soemthing)
[09:13] <lifeless> AfC: it indicates the semantic action that takes place.
[09:14] <fullermd> 'get' is the one that always throws me for a loop.
[09:14] <AfC> lifeless: personal reasons: 1) I find the term branch getting overloaded, especially with new users:
[09:15] <AfC> "run the bazaar branch command to get a branch of the bazaar branch which is then a branch that you can branch yourself"
[09:15] <fullermd> AfC: I did a mini-rant on that Way Back When...
[09:16] <AfC> lifeless: personal reasons: 2) many of my new potential hackers at the moment are Git aficionados; making the very first command they see a bit more familiar helps get them going. It's a little thing, but it seems to help.
[09:16] <AfC> [and I'm hyper conscious of trying to present them a good impression]
[09:17] <lifeless> fair enough
[09:18] <AfC> lifeless: had a really interesting run through that with Carl Worth via phone the other day. He'll be down at LCA in Melbourne; I'd like to encourage you and Martin and whoever else to have a chat with him then using him flailing at [as it happens my project] as a case example for someone who is _really_ deep into Git but not a shit when dealing with other people.
[09:18] <mwhudson> i alternate between get and branch randomly i think
[09:18] <mwhudson> more likely to use 'get' on a remote branch
[09:19] <AfC> mwhudson: that makes sense too
[09:42] <LarstiQ> lifeless: pong
[09:42] <lifeless> LarstiQ: where is your subtrees branch ?
[09:43] <lifeless> LarstiQ: It keeps coming up, and no-one knows where to go to get your current state.
[09:43] <lifeless> LarstiQ: so I'd really love it if you made it visible - it doesn't matter if its not functional, just making it accessible++.
[09:44] <LarstiQ> lifeless: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~larstiq/bzr/nested-trees may not be entirely up to date, just a sec
[09:44] <lifeless> thanks!
[09:44]  * LarstiQ needs to fix the pending work and actually commit something
[09:45] <lifeless> small commits++
[09:45] <LarstiQ> lifeless: I'm spending 2 hours on that now
[09:45] <lifeless> LarstiQ: yay!
[09:45] <lifeless> I'm about to sleep, so gnight!
[09:45] <LarstiQ> lifeless: I cognitively entirely agree with small commits++
[09:45] <LarstiQ> lifeless: good night
[09:47] <jayesh_> i think bazaar don't have many starting level tutorial !
[09:48] <jayesh_> i really struggled to start with
[09:49] <AfC> jayesh_: what are you having trouble with?
[09:50] <jayesh_> to understand DRCS
[09:50] <jayesh_> i am an svn user
[13:24] <matkor> Hi. Is it possilbe to downgrade branch/checkout to given revision ? How can I do it ?
[13:24] <fullermd> What do you mean by 'downgrade'?
[13:25] <fullermd> Change the files?  Change the basis tree?  Discard later changes semi-permanently?
[13:25] <matkor> fullermd: checkout source is now under -r 100
[13:25] <matkor> I did bzr update
[13:25] <matkor> but no I want have checkout at revison 50
[13:25] <matkor> becouse sth went  wrong
[13:26] <AnMaster> http://bazaar-vcs.org/ConfiguringBzr#head-8b89e546875b2447e015c0b83e423ef4d99ce6e0 refers to "when-required"  "Sign newly committed revisions only when the branch requires signed revisions."
[13:26] <AnMaster> how does one set a branch to require it
[13:26] <AnMaster> I can't find it
[13:27] <fullermd> matkor: Well, still, kinda a question of what you're trying to accomplish.  Are you wanting to just look at/play with the files as of rev 50?  Are you wanting to craft up a rev 101 that looks just like r50?  Are you wanting to throw away r51-100 and start over from 50?
[13:29] <matkor> I want temporarly have rev 50
[13:29] <matkor> until I fix problems and commit more
[13:29] <matkor> revisions
[13:30] <matkor> lets say 105 which fix poblems
[13:30] <fullermd> Well, sounds like using 'revert' is probably your closest bet.  That'll just change your WT files, not anything else.
[13:31] <AnMaster> anyway what about the signing?
[13:31] <AnMaster> :)
[13:32] <fullermd> AnMaster: Search me.  I think there's some branch config option that may do it, but last I heard the gpg code had a lot of exposed innards and spiky edges in those places.
[13:33] <AnMaster> I see, I searched all docs, googled and so on
[13:33] <AnMaster> I really need to enforce signing however :/
[13:33] <fullermd> Might try asking jam when he shows up (couple hours, probably); I think he knows that part of the code reasonably well.
[13:34] <AnMaster> hm, couple of hours, argh. not here then probably
[13:34] <mwhudson> i think you edit gpg_policy or something in locations.conf
[13:35] <AnMaster> hm? isn't locations.conf for the old way of storing parent branch and such?
[13:35]  * AnMaster thought it was stored in the branch nowdays
[13:35] <AnMaster> if it matters: I'm using a shared repo for all my branches with the format "dirstate-tags"
[13:36] <AnMaster> (and I do use tag feature)
[13:36] <matkor> fullermd: Thank you very much ... revert seems ok
[13:36] <matkor> fullermd: To get latest reviosion again. I do : bzr revert ; bzr update, right ?
[13:37] <fullermd> matkor: Just the 'revert' by itself should do it (unless more new revs showed up in the branch of course)
[15:01] <jayesh_> i just created an experimental branch in bazaar.. and i am trying to push to that.why it is taking long time?
[15:02] <jayesh_> is it not pushing a diff ?
[15:49] <AnMaster> fullermd, hm you there?
[15:49] <AnMaster> how long until that "jam" shows up do you think?
[15:58] <jonny2> hi, can use a command to use my version of all conflicts?
[19:14] <lifeless> moin
[19:33] <jelmer> hey lifeless
[20:32] <thumper> morning bizarre dudes
[20:33] <lifeless> hi
[21:34] <floam> is the push-and-update plugin still the "right way" to maintain a working tree on a sftp remote location?
[21:35] <lifeless> floam: yes
[21:36] <floam> ok. I thought maybe it was replaced by something smarter since I've been getting deprecation warnings every time I use it since 0.90 and I've seen no updates to it
[21:36] <lifeless> perhaps you could file a bug on it then ?
[21:36] <floam> well, it works fine
[21:36] <floam> I just get this every time:
[21:37] <floam> /Users/floam/.bazaar/plugins/push_and_update/push_and_update.py:119: DeprecationWarning: bzrlib.transport.split_url was deprecated in version 0.90.
[21:37] <lifeless> yup, please file a bug.
[21:37] <floam> ok.
[22:05] <Peng> check_signatures = always is invalid, right?
[22:05] <Peng> Arrgh.
[22:05] <Peng> I mean create_signatures.
[22:05] <Peng> check_signatures uses always but create_signatures uses "require".
[22:07] <Peng> Oh. I do mean check_signatures.
[22:08] <Peng> Apparently I needed more sleep.
[22:09] <Peng> Anyway, I was asking because the configuration.txt doc gives an example of check_signatures = always once but usually uses "requires" and only lists "requires" as valid.
[22:09] <Peng> Err, "require". no s.
[22:22] <igc> morning
[22:22] <jam-laptop> igc: good morning
[22:23] <igc> hi jam-laptop
[22:23] <jam> silly Colloquy won't let me change the default username
[22:23] <jam> ... :(
[22:24] <jam> I blame Mac's "don't have an Ok button" design philosophy
[22:57] <jam> lifeless, igc:  so are we getting ready to do the conference call?
[22:57] <jam> i don't see poolie
[23:00] <thumper> jam: there he goes ^^
[23:00] <jam> hi poolie
[23:00] <jam> bye everyone
[23:02] <jam>   thumper: will you be joining us?
[23:02] <thumper> jam: no, got to go and collect my daughter
[23:02] <jam> pfff, weak
[23:02] <jam> you make a big deal about sitting in
[23:02] <thumper> :)
[23:02] <jam> and then back out :)
[23:02] <thumper> I was just checking
[23:13] <jam> poolie, igc, lifeless: Are we meeting now? It was supposed to start 10 minutes ago
[23:13] <jam> well 13 by my clock
[23:13] <igc> jam: we did :-)
[23:13] <jam> shoot
[23:14] <jam> i pinged at 3minutes till and nobody said anything
[23:14] <jam> I'm glad it went quickly, though
[23:14] <igc> it was a conference call - just finished
[23:14] <jam> sure, but I don't like calling phone numbers cold...
[23:14] <jam> when I know there are people online
[23:15] <jam> anyway, sorry I missed it
[23:15] <igc> poolie is waiting for lifeless to arrive so there may be a follow-up shortly if you're still around
[23:16] <jam> was there a conference code number?
[23:16] <igc> jam: anyhow, for me today: 1. blackbox tests for switch; 2. User Guide
[23:16] <jam> or is that just Martin's room
[23:16] <jam> #
[23:16] <jam> I think we need to address the community pushback about 1.0
[23:16] <igc> yes
[23:17] <jam> which probably isn't a 15-minute phone call
[23:17] <igc> agreed
[23:20] <jam> anyway, I actually need to get going
[23:20] <jam> I'll thank you in advance for all your help
[23:20] <jam> (since I'm gone for Thanksgiving :)
[23:21]  * jam => away
[23:34] <lifeless> ola!
[23:36] <lifeless> jamesh: enjoy!
[23:36] <lifeless> jam: Enjoy!
[23:40] <jamesh> enjoy what?


[00:05] <Sbur> krytarik: Is that a sign I'm hacked?
[10:31] <studio-user496> Hello. I'm having headaches updating Ubuntu Studio 16.04 Xenial with Wine, and with Software Updates. I just did a fresh reboot and need your tips.
[14:00] <studio-user030> join
[15:37] <sirix> buenas tardes
[15:37] <cfhowlett> !es | sirix
[15:40] <sirix> you'r' welcome :)
[17:16] <tumulte> hi
[17:20] <tumulte> Are lv2/vst really unstable ?
[17:20] <tumulte> or have I done something wrong ?
[17:21] <tumulte> synths
[17:22] <tumulte> not effects


[00:42] <BluesKaj_> valorie, yes, did you and your family have a good Christmas?
[00:49] <valorie> yes, in spite of flu
[00:50] <valorie> so I didn't spend it with my kids and my sister and hers, but instead with my grandson and his new puppy
[00:50] <valorie> \o/
[00:50] <valorie> they both loved being the center of attention
[00:53] <soee> hiho :)
[00:56] <BluesKaj_> valorie, no doubt, kids really enjoy the season
[00:56] <valorie> he was like popcorn most of the night
[00:57] <valorie> the the pup is young enough to play hard, then fall asleep almost instantly
[00:57] <valorie> then back up to do it again
[00:57] <valorie> springer spaniel, one of my favorite breeds
[00:58] <BluesKaj_> nice :)
[13:13] <BluesKaj_> Hiyas all
[13:54] <bukai> ovidiu-florin: ping
[13:54] <ovidiu-florin> bukai: pong
[13:55] <bukai> ovidiu-florin: for the site I wanted the images under latest articles to change whenever a new post is made. I am having problems in implementing it
[13:58] <bukai> ovidiu-florin: How do I use loop.php to display the thumbnails of the post in the latest article section
[13:59] <ovidiu-florin> if a widget doesn't exist that does this: make one that shows a feed of the news category. That feed will be generated on each page load
[13:59] <ovidiu-florin> I think that exists already
[13:59] <ovidiu-florin> if not, just modify the recent articles widget, to filter just the news posts
[14:01] <bukai> there is a widget that does that but I only need the thumbnails and the links not the other data is that possible?
[14:58] <sitter> kubotu: newversion phonon-backend-gstreamer 4.8.2 https://community.kde.org/Phonon/Releases/GStreamer/4.8.2
[14:58] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1405957
[15:50] <ScottK> Riddell: I'm both travelling for the holidays and sick (yay), so unlikely to get to it soon.
[18:19] <ovidiu-florin> jose: are you around?
[18:41] <Darkwing> Is 15.04 alpha running Plasma5?
[18:44] <yofel> yes
[18:51] <Darkwing> Awesome. Getting ready to DL
[19:04] <BluesKaj_> personally, I'm waiting for plasma 5.2 Beta for this desktop. I hear there are large improvements to usability when it;s available on jan 16
[20:59] <kfunk> running 15.04 => works flawlessly! (less issues with Plasma5 than on 14.04 with PPA)
[20:59] <kfunk> err, 14.10


[23:22] <wvk> Good day, fellow Upstart users
[23:22] <wvk> I have an upstart job with a complex set of starting requirements
[23:23] <wvk> but it's not quite working the way I'd hoped
[23:24] <wvk> Say I have a job, JOB-A, that depends on JOB-B (which starts once at boot up) and JOB-C (which starts every time the login screen is shown)
[23:24] <wvk> So, I use the following stanza:
[23:25] <wvk>     start on (started JOB-B and started JOB-C)
[23:25] <wvk>     stop on stopping JOB-C
[23:25] <wvk> The issue is that, JOB-A only starts once, after boot (JOB-B) and the first time the login screen (JOB-C) is shown
[23:26] <wvk> I want it to restart every time JOB-C restarts
[23:26] <wvk> so I tried:
[23:27] <wvk>     start on (started JOB-B and started JOB-C) or (stopped JOB-B and started JOB-B)
[23:27] <wvk>    oops, I meant
[23:27] <wvk>     start on (started JOB-B and started JOB-C) or (stopped JOB-C and started JOB-C)
[23:28] <wvk> but this doesn't seem to work either
[23:28] <wvk> when i do "restart JOB-C", JOB-A stops but does not start again
[23:28] <wvk> Do any of y'all have a suggestion on how to fix this?


[21:44] <GTswagger> The call for speakers for the SouthEast LinuxFest ends soon.  So if you want to speak about your FOSS'y passions to a building full of Linux geeks in Charlotte, NC in June, get that submission in!  http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/?page_id=18
[21:44]  * GTswagger pokes mhall119 and runs away quickly


[04:00] <pitti> Good morning
[07:30] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:32] <pitti> bonjour seb128, comment vas-tu ?
[07:32] <seb128> pitti, salut, ça va bien ! et toi ?
[07:33] <pitti> je vais bien, merci !
[07:33] <pitti> trop de travail avant mes vacances :)
[08:01] <willcooke> morning all
[08:02] <larsu> morning!
[08:02] <willcooke> hey larsu
[08:04] <Laney> hey hey
[08:14] <willcooke> hi Laney
[08:15] <seb128> hey willcooke Laney
[08:19] <Laney> hey seb128 & willcooke, how's it going?
[08:20] <seb128> good! played some tennis yesterday evening ;-)
[08:20] <seb128> you?
[08:20] <Laney> not bad!
[08:20] <Laney> went to the pub quiz but didn't win this week :(
[09:08] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, are you sure what you pushed to the prereleases ppa is actually rc3?
[09:09] <ricotz> i am pretty sure it isn't :\
[09:14] <Sweet5hark> ricotz: urgh indeed -- will fix
[09:15] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, add "check version in about-dialog" to your smoke test ;P
[09:15] <ricotz> pretty small diff, and the missing etonyek/mdds fix for 4.6 made me wonder
[09:16] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, so "5.0.0~rc3.1"?
[10:19] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, let me know if you uploaded something
[13:11] <Laney> cyphermox: did you fix the iso smoke testing? :)
[13:13] <cyphermox> Laney: psivaa disabled part of the tests :(
[13:13] <cyphermox> apparently there are issues with utah
[13:13] <Laney> oh :/
[13:14] <Laney> are they going to be fixed?
[13:15] <Laney> & what about the lvm test?
[13:15] <cyphermox> yes, they're working on fixing the issues
[13:15] <willcooke> cool, thanks chaps
[13:15] <cyphermox> what about the lvm test?
[13:15] <willcooke> the lvm build is red
[13:16] <willcooke> oh
[13:16] <willcooke> Finished: SUCCESS
[13:16] <cyphermox> the lvm builds are disabled, I think
[13:16] <Laney> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/wily/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/wily-desktop-amd64-smoke-lvm/
[13:17] <Laney> it doesn't make the project fail
[13:17] <Laney> but still
[13:17]  * willcooke was looking at the wrong log
[13:17] <cyphermox> Laney: it also hasn't run for a while
[13:17] <Laney> hmm?
[13:17] <Laney> dates on the left look recent to me
[13:17] <cyphermox> may 10?
[13:18] <Laney> 15-Jul-2015 09:11:20
[13:18] <Laney> 20150715
[13:18] <willcooke> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/wily/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/wily-desktop-amd64-smoke-lvm/lastBuild/consoleText
[13:18] <cyphermox> err
[13:18] <cyphermox> ah, I'm not looking at the same
[13:18] <Laney> good ol jenkins
[13:19] <willcooke> :)
[13:19] <Laney> shall I file a bug somewhere for psivaa to peek at?
[13:20] <Laney> good job he's not in here to see that I'm trying to give him work :)
[13:20] <cyphermox> haha
[13:20] <cyphermox> ping cihelp in #u-ci-eng
[13:20] <cyphermox> I don't know where they might keep bugs
[13:21] <cyphermox> interestingly, the lvm install looks like it worked
[13:21] <Laney> that log makes my eyes hurt
[13:22] <cyphermox> me too
[13:22] <cyphermox> but the kernel cmdline looks correct, and it's obviously booted and able to do things
[13:22] <cyphermox> I doubt the lvm test checks much more ;)
[13:24] <Laney> yeah it just doesn't give any useful error
[13:24]  * Laney eats own arm
[13:24] <Laney> too hungry, will file bug in a bit
[13:26] <cyphermox> heh
[13:27] <cyphermox> looks like it would check the output of vgs, lvs, and what's mounted for the root partition, so it does check a few things
[13:27] <cyphermox> ohh
[13:27] <cyphermox> but as I recall that test was broken
[13:27] <cyphermox> yep
[13:28] <cyphermox> it all needs some lovin' :)
[14:03] <pitti> aah -- la monde est beaucoup mieux avec de la glace !
[14:04] <pitti> seb128: as-tu déjà ton ?
[14:04] <seb128> pitti, mon ?
[14:04] <pitti> seb128: glace !
[14:04] <seb128> ici il fait gris, il pleut et il fait 19°C
[14:04] <seb128> non :-(
[14:05] <pitti> wow; we've had almost neverending summer here for many weeks
[14:05] <pitti> seulment lundi il faitait grise et "seulement" 22 deg (mais pas de la pluie)
[14:06] <pitti> our ice cream café is working double shifts :)
[14:07] <seb128> pitti, http://www.bbc.com/weather/2747373
[14:07] <seb128> pitti, ici il a fait chaud quelques jours mais plus depuis 1 semaine
[14:10] <pitti> seb128: :(
[14:29] <willcooke> il pleut
[14:32] <desrt> pluvas?
[14:33] <pitti> mais non, il y a de la soleil tous le jours :) -- c'est l'été !
[14:34] <Laney> there was some police action over lunch
[14:34] <Laney> I wonder what happened
[14:34] <willcooke> ham wars
[14:34] <Laney> omg the ham meet
[14:35] <Laney> I forgot
[14:35] <willcooke> Nooooooooooo
[14:35] <Laney> it's at 16:28
[14:35] <willcooke> phew
[14:35] <willcooke> assuming he hasn't just been arrested
[14:38] <Laney> true
[14:39] <Laney> suspicious man lurking with a huge ham hock
[14:41] <Laney> mitya57: do you have commit powers for gnome-screensaver upstream?
[14:50] <mvo_> Sweet5hark: bad news, straight out of the archive it won't work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11882956/ - hardcoded pathes, there is some ld_preload magic by mterry that might help here though
[14:52] <Sweet5hark> mvo: that one could be solvable though, by killing all the --with-system-$foo switches we do in deb packaging.
[14:53] <Sweet5hark> mvo: setting the SYSTEM_STUFF var in ./debian/rules to empty would work towards that (but likely some of our vendor patches break by doing that)
[14:54] <Sweet5hark> mvo_: that _is_ how you do development or upstream builds though. not using system langtag, but build and ship an in tree version.
[14:54] <Sweet5hark> mvo_: but thanks for giving it a try!
[14:59] <Sweet5hark> mvo_: (and no -- Im not expecting you to kick off a modified libreoffice build, in case it sounded like that)
[14:59] <Sweet5hark> ;)
[15:01] <Sweet5hark> mvo: FWIW, I could try to create a LibreOffice-vanilla debian package, kicking out as much debianisms as possible and upload that to a ppa ...
[17:00] <willcooke> g'night all
[17:02] <Laney> me too
[17:02] <Laney> byesie bye
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, you around?
[20:59] <Sweet5hark> ricotz: ~rc3.1 copied. thanks for the hint ...
[21:02] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, ok, although I won't be upload the backports while the ppa is over-filled :\
[21:02] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, kind of
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, do you want to help out with keeping https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-next up-to-date?
[21:05] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, hmm, I guess I could
[21:06] <ricotz> although I am just taking one packaging as base, and no precise so far in my ppa
[21:07] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, btw, what is up with thunderbird 38.1.0?
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, yeah, I don't have precise for https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-aurora either because I need to fix the packaging to handle the different compiler packages
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> but https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-next has a packaging branch for each release (as it ends up being what we push out to -security)
[21:08] <ricotz> I see
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, thunderbird 38.1.0 will be coming, but I haven't had time to test it properly (been overwhelmed with bug 1471949 and bug 1474003 this week)
[21:09] <ricotz> jfyi, I decided to do some "private" update due the lack of updates in the official ppas ;)
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> so I'm going to push out 31.8 first, and then 38.2.0 or whatever for the next release
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> I've added you to ~mozillateam
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> I would have pushed out 38.1 had Firefox 39 not been so problematic :)
[21:10] <ricotz> I started using 38.1.0 here
[21:10] <ricotz> alright
[21:12] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, irc you didnt answer the last time, why the gcc-backport wasn't done in a more general way which could be a benefit for e.g. libreoffice too
[21:14] <chrisccoulson> Is it actually beneficial for libreoffice? At the time, I'd already created the new gcc package and got Firefox building with it. I was reluctant to change it again
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> I wouldn't use it for anything else at the moment, because it produces broken code ;)
[21:16] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, right, 4.8 is problematic, 4.7.x or 4.9.x would be more interesting
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> 4.8.2 is fine. There's a regression between that and 4.8.4. I'm bisecting atm
[21:17] <ricotz> libreoffice already requires some tweaks to work with 4.6
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> gcc-4.8 in trusty-updates is broken too
[21:19] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, I see what I can do regarding firefox, but I dont care much for the unity-menubar-patch
[21:19] <chrisccoulson> you probably won't need to touch that - it doesn't normally need tweaking outside of trunk
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> So at the start of the cycle I merge all of the packaging changes from trunk -> aurora / aurora -> beta, and then it generally doesn't change again
[21:20] <ricotz> ok, i already run into breakages caused by it
[23:39] <robert_ancell> tedg, regarding bug 1472097 - What's the unity8 branch RAOF is referring to?


[03:36] <kwwii_> moin
[05:26] <troy_s> greetz kwwii_ -- ltns
[05:26] <kwwii_> hey troy_s, wassup?
[05:26] <troy_s> Usual fuddle.
[05:26] <troy_s> Yourself?
[05:27] <kwwii_> well, theoretically, I am on vacation in america
[05:27] <troy_s> Ahh...
[05:27] <troy_s> Doing what?
[05:27] <kwwii_> practically, I am working on the login screen
[05:27] <kwwii_> :-)
[05:27] <troy_s> (Did you know that Xara .7 now has rough SVG import in place?)
[05:28] <troy_s> Why in america?
[05:28] <kwwii_> troy_s: well, I was born here, and my family is here
[05:28] <troy_s> Ah, now I get it.
[05:28] <kwwii_> so I am here with my wife and son (at my Moms' place now)
[05:28] <kwwii_> not too much of a vacation really
[05:28] <troy_s> Indeed.
[05:28] <kwwii_> it ends up being more work than fun
[05:29] <kwwii_> I really wish I could build xara on my ppc
[05:29] <troy_s> Well I have been busy too, trying to hook up with fschoep has been rather like juggling chainsaws.
[05:29] <kwwii_> I am seriously thinking about buying another laptop (intel this time) to run linux on
[05:29] <kwwii_> hehe
[05:29] <troy_s> Xara runs terrific on my box... even in 32 bit emul mode.
[05:29] <kwwii_> I will be seeing him in a few days, I guess that is why he is offline now
[05:30] <troy_s> I am bumping to the 4x4 in a month or so...
[05:30] <troy_s> X2 now with 4 gigs of ram.
[05:30] <kwwii_> the developer sprint tends to be a lot of work
[05:30] <kwwii_> hehe, killer
[05:30] <troy_s> Going to quad quad amd when it is released.
[05:31] <troy_s> Dev sprint with no sabdfl though...
[05:31] <kwwii_> really?
[05:31] <kwwii_> wow, that should be somewhat different
[05:31] <troy_s> Well you are talking about the sprint right?
[05:31] <kwwii_> yepp
[05:31] <troy_s> I don't think he hits those... only the release ones.
[05:31] <troy_s> But I might be wrong.
[05:31] <kwwii_> he was at the last one, and he was very active
[05:32] <troy_s> Hrm... where is the wiki link -- he is usually listed on them no?
[05:32] <kwwii_> at that time I still had no idea that there was a wiki :p
[05:36] <troy_s> Well hopefully Frank will keep the torch burning.
[05:37] <troy_s> My bloody email has finally quieted down for a week thanks to Frank being in deep.
[05:37] <troy_s> ;)
[05:37] <kwwii_> hehe
[05:38] <troy_s> Hopefully Frank will get the Proposal close doc officially announced.
[05:39] <kwwii_> next week should solidify things a lot
[05:40] <troy_s> Yes, we have been flurrying emails when we can.
[05:40] <troy_s> Hrm... mdz is here I see.
[05:40] <troy_s> Interesting.
[05:41] <troy_s> How goes the Kubuntu related things?  Slow?
[05:42] <kwwii_> well, on the stuff that I have done, things are going well...what we really need so more community contributions
[05:42] <kwwii_> s/so/is
[05:42] <troy_s> Well you won't get it without stimulating it.
[05:43] <troy_s> Simple byproduct of critical mass theory.
[05:44] <troy_s> Do you have a wiki page with the updated bits on it?
[05:45] <kwwii_> pretty much everything is on the exitsting wiki page...right now I have limited internet access so I'll be uploading the kdm and buttons sometime within a couple of days
[05:45] <kwwii_> I guess you mean that I should increase the emails to the list concerning kubuntu?
[05:46] <kwwii_> I was kinda trying to avoid using the list too much, as it seemed that we wanted to stick to the wiki for that kind of stuff
[05:46] <troy_s> Naw... it really is an announcement venue -- I would utilize it and lead the troops that are out there.
[05:47] <troy_s> We have quite a few contributors, and a simple request note could very well generate some response, especially if it is well timed.
[05:47] <kwwii_> I actually did send some emails with info and asking for contribution when I updated the wiki pages
[05:48] <troy_s> Jmak and who to say the least have been very productive.
[05:48] <troy_s> I am hoping that Frank's roll in for Production will be explanatory enough to constrain the elements.
[05:48] <kwwii_> true, and I asked who to help with kubuntu but it seems he doesn't want to
[05:48] <troy_s> Hrm... did he mail to that effect?
[05:48] <troy_s> Obviously time constraints impact everyone.
[05:48] <kwwii_> nope
[05:49] <kwwii_> I thought about taking some of his stuff, playing with it a bit and then ask for his help :-)
[05:49] <troy_s> I have been sending him a plethora of my reference library stuffs.
[05:49] <troy_s> Probably a good way to go about it :)
[05:49] <troy_s> I have some wonderful palettes that I need to XCF too... Mr. Krause's work
[05:49] <troy_s> very skilled fellow that guy... I guess that explains his publishing record.
[05:50] <kwwii_> hehe
[05:51] <troy_s> Have some pretty interesting ideas for a campaign, but still needs development.  Hopefully I can find enough time between now and the next Summit.
[05:51] <troy_s> Are you familiar with any of the design movements?
[05:52] <kwwii_> I have been staying on top of the ubuntu stuff as well, yeah
[05:52] <kwwii_> not quite sure I agreed with some of the GTK stuff, but otherwise it is coming along nicely
[05:53] <troy_s> What GTK stuff... must have missed it.
[05:53] <kwwii_> the widget stuff
[05:53] <troy_s> The single man flailfest?
[05:53] <troy_s> Oh god... yeah.
[05:53] <troy_s> I don't think anyone is really paying too much attention.
[05:53] <kwwii_> but I really wish that kubuntu had that many people working on it
[05:54] <kwwii_> it would really make things easier for me :p
[05:54] <troy_s> You familiar with lissitzky
[05:54] <troy_s> well you need to stimulate it really... give the folks the architecture.
[05:55] <kwwii_> I guess I was not used to juggling doing the artwork and coordinating it from a community standpoint
[05:56] <troy_s> Suprematism / Lissitzky?
[05:56] <kwwii_> nope
[05:56] <troy_s> Wow.
[05:56] <troy_s> Very amazing fellow... you should google him.
[05:56] <troy_s> 1919 and his stylistic cleavings still have leverage on contemporary design.
[05:57] <kwwii_> wikipedia, gotta love it
[05:57] <kwwii_> sounds very interesting
[05:58] <troy_s> Heavy avant garde fellow... but I am thinking it would quite remarkable and distinct to base a 'campaign' on stylistic tendencies of certain periods.
[05:58] <troy_s> Very interesting, and it would probably go a long way to attracting more artists.
[05:59] <troy_s> There must be a wikipedia page on suprematism no?
[05:59] <kwwii_> reading it now
[05:59] <troy_s> Wow.
[05:59] <kwwii_> das zielbewute Schaffen
[05:59] <troy_s> They don't have the damn wedge work from lissitzsky though... sort of a classic in the genre.
[06:00] <kwwii_> killer
[06:00] <troy_s> Amazing stuff eh?
[06:01] <troy_s> You found his wedge?  I bet google has it...
[06:01] <troy_s> http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&hs=9Sa&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&sa=N&resnum=0&q=lissitzky%20wedge&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wi
[06:01] <troy_s> A truly remarkable artist.
[06:02] <kwwii_> wow
[06:02] <kwwii_> yeah, amazing
[06:02] <kwwii_> killer
[06:04] <troy_s> If the marketing team were at a decent level, it would be an interesting venture.
[06:04] <troy_s> Combine the various movements with the notions that they implied, and draw an Ubuntu analogy to each.
[06:05] <kwwii_> hehe
[06:05] <troy_s> I think it would make for a distint and striking series of posters.
[06:06] <troy_s> Have a Dada, Suprematism, Cubist, etc.
[06:06] <kwwii_> yeah
[06:06] <kwwii_> no doubt
[06:07] <troy_s> http://www.getty.edu/research/conducting_research/digitized_collections/lissitzky/5_theories/images/Liss037L.jpg
[06:07] <troy_s> You could probably take that lissitzsky somewhere... ;)
[06:08] <kwwii_> no doubt
[06:09] <troy_s> Wow... wikepedia even has some of his personal letters to folks... very nifty.
[06:11] <kwwii_> I really love it
[06:16] <kwwii_> ok, gonna do some work now
[04:57] <PingunZ> cool, forums are down again :)
[04:58] <PingunZ> sorry, wrong channel :)
[11:06] <PingunZ> hey, can I help someone ?
[11:06] <PingunZ> I kinda have nothing to do


[00:07] <Turl> newz2000: ping
[01:32] <cjohnston> mhall119: is openid auth 0.3 available in repos
[01:35] <cjohnston> django-openid-auth        - OpenID integration for django.contrib.auth INSTALLED: 0.2 LATEST:    0.4
[01:35] <cjohnston> hmm
[02:09] <cjohnston> i keep timing out when running make init now
[02:09] <cjohnston> django.core.exceptions.ImproperlyConfigured: Error loading psycopg2 module: No module named psycopg2
[02:20] <cjohnston> thats when trying to run nigelb's django update
[05:17] <nigelb> cjohnston: Do you have a settings local?
[11:15] <cjohnston> nigelb: yes
[15:01] <cjohnston> svwilliams: ping
[15:44] <cjohnston> mhall119: ping
[15:45] <nigelb> mhall119: I keep running into No module named exceptions at from django_openid_auth.exceptions import
[15:45] <nigelb> suggestions on where to look?
[15:57] <mhall119> nigelb: you need the latest version of django_openid_auth, which gained an exceptions.py module
[16:06] <cjohnston> mhall119: nigelb have you two looked at trello
[16:06] <cjohnston> nigelb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/731074/
[16:14] <nigelb> cjohnston: Yeah, I've seen trello
[16:14] <nigelb> cjohnston: what is that?
[16:14] <nigelb> mhall119: YOu guys should do a release of django-openid-auth with the exceptions module in it.
[16:14] <cjohnston> nigelb: thats the new error im getting when running make init
[16:15] <mhall119> cjohnston: yeah, we use something like it in ISD
[16:15] <mhall119> nigelb: I thought we did
[16:15] <mhall119> 0.4
[16:15] <cjohnston> 0.4 is available nigelb
[16:15] <nigelb> mhall119: Oh.
[16:15] <cjohnston> why not just use that and not trunk
[16:15] <nigelb> boo.
[16:15] <nigelb> let me change.
[16:15] <cjohnston> mhall119: is MIA
[16:15] <mhall119> I am?
[16:16] <cjohnston> look at your channel list
[16:16] <nigelb> cjohnston: I don't now what's up with pytz :/
[16:16] <mhall119> oh, yeah, my EC2 server has been getting disconnected today, not sure why
[16:17] <nigelb> First step of common app is a success!
[16:17] <mhall119> \o/
[16:18] <nigelb> I just moved the login_failure module into it :)
[16:18] <mhall119> good place for it
[16:18] <cjohnston> there is alot of stuff that should go in common
[16:19] <cjohnston> i still cant get the new flipping 1.3 code working
[16:19] <nigelb> cjohnston: One step at a time :)
[16:19] <nigelb> cjohnston: You can't get a virtualenv working. Not 1.3 :)
[16:19] <mhall119> nigelb: why not?
[16:19] <nigelb> mhall119: pytz seems to be erroring out for him
[16:20] <nigelb> Its probably a PyPI thing.
[16:20] <mhall119> :/
[16:44]  * mhall119 is considering grabbing a rootbeer and working from the porch
[16:48]  * cjohnston is jealous
[16:48]  * nigelb is considering grabbing a beer.
[17:40] <cjohnston> Ronnie: !!!!
[17:40] <Ronnie> cjohnston: i have to eat a bit in a few minutes, later today (in about 1 hour) i have time
[17:41] <cjohnston> Are you coming back to us?!
[17:43] <Ronnie> cjohnston: ill ping you when im back
[17:45] <cjohnston> ok
[19:43] <Ronnie> ping cjohnston
[20:15] <cjohnston> Ronnie: !
[20:15] <Ronnie> :D
[20:16] <cjohnston> Ronnie: are you coming back to us!?!
[20:19] <cjohnston> :-(
[20:19] <Ronnie> i guess, not for the coming 6 months. i got kind of a double job at the moment, together with being the loco contact, and local-council member, my schedule is pretty full
[20:20] <cjohnston> :-(
[20:20] <Ronnie> i still really love the project and mostly following it from a distance
[20:20] <cjohnston> we really miss you!
[20:20] <Ronnie> but real programming and designing time i havent
[20:22] <Ronnie> i know, i probably will be back another time when things are more quietly over here
[20:23] <cjohnston> nigelb discovers sleep, you buy a house.. all of our developers are falling off
[20:23] <nigelb> and cjohnston discovers vacation
[20:23] <cjohnston> vacation is not new to cjohnston
[20:24] <Ronnie> then its time to train new people
[20:25] <cjohnston> Ronnie: we have been trying to find new people
[20:25] <cjohnston> svwilliams we recruited at uds
[20:27] <Ronnie> ah, thats nice. then svwilliams just should invest both the time from me and nigelb :P
[20:27] <cjohnston> lol
[20:29] <Ronnie> maybe (just maybe) ill do some byte-size bugs when i have little time, but you shouldn't count on it
[20:29] <mhall119> Ronnie: your previous contributions have all be greatly appreciated, and we're sure going to miss them between now and when you do come back :)
[20:29] <Ronnie> mhall119: thx
[20:29] <cjohnston> Ronnie: whats your email
[20:30] <mhall119> Ronnie: can you do me a favor, and post the mockups you have already made somewhere, so we can pass them along to anyone else who might be able to implement them for us?
[20:30] <cjohnston> ronnie.vc.d   u.c?
[20:30] <Ronnie> cjohnston: yes
[20:36] <Ronnie> mhall119: any good file dump sites?
[20:36] <mhall119> Ronnie: U1, Dropbox, the wiki
[20:36] <mhall119> anywhere will do
[20:38] <Ronnie> cjohnston: signed up
[20:39] <cjohnston> ty Ronnie
[20:39] <cjohnston> nigelb: what do you think about using red for bitesize tags?
[20:40] <cjohnston> on trello
[20:41] <nigelb> cjohnston: sure. code for "DON'T FIX THIS BUG!"? :)
[20:43] <cjohnston> no..
[20:43] <cjohnston> code for, if you need a bitesize bug, look at me
[20:44] <nigelb> cjohnston: Ah, mark those on LP please.
[20:46] <cjohnston> ya
[20:46] <cjohnston> mhall119: nigelb is there something that we could use to replace twidenash that would be less work on our part, or does nothing like that exist for both dervices
[20:49] <mhall119> cjohnston: stop giving me work :(
[20:49] <mhall119> cjohnston: there is probably a better library, yes, I just don't know of one
[20:50] <mhall119> cjohnston: for me, red screams "FIX ME FIRST!"
[20:51] <cjohnston> mhall119: thats fine.. i was going with for the new guys, stand out easy
[20:51] <cjohnston> but thats fine
[20:51] <cjohnston> ill mark them all red
[20:51] <cjohnston> and more work? by trying to replace twidenash?
[20:51] <mhall119> no, by adding my to cards in trello, I see emails coming in
[20:52] <mhall119> I'm pretty sure I already quit, shouldn't these all go to nigelb?
[20:52] <cjohnston> nope
[20:52] <cjohnston> you arent allowed to quit.. i voted and you lost the vote
[20:55] <mhall119> darn democracy
[21:12] <cjohnston> mhall119: any idea why im having so much trouble with this stupid pytz file?
[21:15] <mhall119> nope
[21:15] <cjohnston> nigelb: i just ran 242 tests with no issues on your branch
[21:46] <cjohnston> mhall119: http://paste.ubuntu.com/731423/   this seems to be the error im getting with the new code
[21:46] <cjohnston> mhall119: any idea what thats about
[21:48] <Ronnie> cjohnston, mhall119, daker: all my mockups (not sorted) http://ubuntuone.com/2HDvlPrLy2AlFmvd5lBZz7
[21:48] <cjohnston> Ronnie: your awesome!
[21:49] <mhall119> thanks Ronnie
[21:59] <cjohnston> nigelb: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/summit/display-sponsor-email/+merge/80849  im thinking that this mp has nothing to do with the lack of an email address when someone is nominated, and therefore, we need to create a bug for an email address not being captured when someone is nominated
[23:00] <Turl> newz2000: ping
[23:08] <mhall119> Turl: he's on vacation, what can I help you with?
[23:10] <Turl> mhall119: hi
[23:10] <Turl> mhall119: ubuntu popcon is broken since several weeks already
[23:10] <Turl> no data update is occuring
[23:11] <mhall119> popcon? what is that?
[23:12] <nhaines> mhall119: an opt-in system whereby Ubuntu systems report a list of installed packages to Canonical.
[23:12] <mhall119> oh, ok
[23:12] <Turl> http://popcon.ubuntu.com
[23:13] <mhall119> is the problem that data isn't being uploaded, or that the website isn't being updated?
[23:13] <Turl> the website has been serving the same data for a while
[23:13] <Turl> see footer, "  Made by  The Ubuntu Web Team . Last generated on Sun Oct  9 22:32:09 2011 UTC. "
[23:14] <Turl> almost a month :)
[23:14] <mhall119> Turl: okay, I'll ask about it tomorrow and see who might be able to help
[23:14] <Turl> thanks
[23:15] <mhall119> np
[23:29] <knome> hey!
[23:30] <knome> AlanBell, you thre?
[23:30] <AlanBell> yup
[23:30] <knome> AlanBell, i just sent you email!! :)
[23:32] <AlanBell> looks good
[23:32] <knome> so what's with the thing the bot not being the most current in #xubuntu-devel ? :)
[23:32] <AlanBell> I want to arrange a hacking weekend on it at some point soon, those are good points and I totally agree
[23:32] <AlanBell> no idea? what bot is in there exactly?
[23:32] <knome> i can take part, if i can be at all useful
[23:32] <knome> meetingology
[23:32] <knome> but i thought you said that's not the most recent
[23:33] <knome> looking at the output it produced :)
[23:33] <AlanBell> yeah, that is the most recent live one
[23:34] <knome> okay
[23:34] <AlanBell> some other people are running forks I think
[23:34] <knome> right
[23:34] <AlanBell> but that is the one in the ubuntu channels
[23:34] <knome> yup
[23:34] <knome> great
[23:34] <knome> so with what qualities you need people in the hacking weekend?
[23:34] <AlanBell> there is also mootbot-uk kicking about still, that uses the old eggdrop bot
[23:35] <AlanBell> a bit of python knowledge, a bit of moin syntax knowledge would each be useful
[23:35] <knome> mm-hmm. the bot is going in the right direction, but it still needs some love
[23:35] <AlanBell> it does need some love :)
[23:35] <knome> i suck at python, but i'm relatively good with moin
[23:35] <knome> and on what's looking good/clear/readable
[23:36] <knome> do you have a date in mind?
[23:56] <svwilliams> cjohnston, ping


[13:15] <_raven> hi
[13:15] <_raven> any plugin to adjust project/file loudness to ebu128?
[13:28] <ailo> _raven: Try #opensourcemusicians and #ardour
[13:29] <ailo> I've never come across that before, but could be it is something quite trivial
[21:27] <webjazz> hello yall
[21:40] <webjazz> hello anteye
[21:43] <anteye> Hey friend!
[21:44] <anteye> Getting into a lot here, but so far no problems. Just learning curve. Glad to know this group is here...
[21:55] <webjazz> trying out irc with xchat
[21:58] <anteye> My fav client mac or linux
[22:01] <webjazz> linux
[22:02] <webjazz> also trying ubuntu studio 12 for the 1st time by the way..
[22:03] <anteye> Same here
[22:03] <anteye> Jack worked and i was vry happy
[22:05] <webjazz> i d like to do some simple midi sequencing. finding it hard
[22:07] <webjazz> which software package should i use to begin with?
[22:09] <webjazz> found qtractor but how to connect sounds and the virtual keyboard?
[22:55] <ailo> webjazz: qjackctl -> Connect -> alsa
[22:56] <ailo> There's two kinds of midi. Mostly everything supports alsa midi. There's also jack midi, which is under "Connect -> Midi"
[22:57] <ailo> To make the two talk to each other, there's something called a2jmidid
[22:57] <ailo> It needs to be run from the command line
[23:02] <webjazz> ran the command now in jack under midi i have a2j as readable and writable. and now?
[23:03] <webjazz> thx for the hints btw
[23:04] <ailo> webjazz: If you just want to connect the virtual keyboard with qtractor, I think both should be visible under the "Alsa" tab
[23:04] <ailo> Just select the two you want to connect, and click "Connect"
[23:07] <ailo> webjazz: Every alsa midi application will appear under the "a2j" readable and writable clients, making them connectable with jack midi applications
[23:08] <ailo> One application that only supports jack midi is Ardour 3
[23:08] <ailo> However, qtractor and the virtual keyboard both use alsa midi, so you don't really need a2jmidid for them
[23:09] <webjazz> is there a tutorial about this somewhere cause i am not sure what i am doing..
[23:09] <ailo> webjazz: Am I right in that you are using vkeybd and qtractor?
[23:10] <ailo> (Ubuntu Studio will probably have such tutorials ready, but not until next release :( )
[23:11] <webjazz> yes id like those to talk to eachother and to a sound generator
[23:11] <ailo> webjazz: Under qjacktl -> Connect -> Alsa, you can connect them to each other
[23:12] <ailo> Select "Virtual Keyboard" from the left field, and "Qtractor" from the right field. Then hit "Connect"
[23:12] <ailo> The default qtractor midi port is 0:master
[23:14] <ailo> webjazz: If you create a midi channel in qtractor, and begin recording to that track, playing the vkeyb will create notes to it
[23:14] <webjazz> ok got the connecting bit
[23:15] <webjazz> so now i connect qtractor out to zynaddsubfx in?
[23:15] <ailo> webjazz: In qtractor, after creating a new midi track, press the "R" button on that track. Then press the record button in the transport controls.
[23:16] <ailo> You'll need to save a midi file somewhere, the one that will be written
[23:16] <ailo> Once you've saved it, and "Record" is selected from the transport, hitting play will start recording
[23:16] <ailo> When you play vkeyb, you'll see notes appearing in the clip that is created for the newly created track
[23:18] <webjazz> qtractor is prompting for session data...ok is grayed out
[23:18] <webjazz> all boxes filed out...
[23:19] <ailo> If you fill in a name, the ok should be un-greyed
[23:20] <webjazz> nope, still grey...
[23:21] <ailo> webjazz: All I did was fill in a name, and it worked
[23:22] <webjazz> anyways thx for all your help so far. Its getting late here. Are there any other sequencers you d recommend?
[23:22] <ailo> For midi, museE is a bit more similar to cubase, but the audio part is no fun
[23:23] <ailo> For audio, ardour is great
[23:23] <ailo> hydrogen is a terrific drum machine / tracker
[23:23] <ailo> As for synths and such, I don't use them much myself
[23:23] <ailo> yoshimi is popular though
[23:24] <ailo> webjazz: hydrogen is easily synced with either ardour or qtractor, using jack transport
[23:24] <webjazz> managed to save the session, had to choose home/music
[23:25] <ailo> There's a new project in the works too - openoctave, but it's not in the repo
[23:25] <ailo> rosegarden might be nice, if you find it works for you
[23:25] <ailo> That's another DAW
[23:26] <webjazz> DAW?
[23:26] <ailo> digital audio workstation
[23:26] <ailo> rosegarden has midi/audio and scoring
[23:28] <ailo> webjazz: Almost forgot lmms
[23:28] <webjazz> actually recorded some notes now...many thx
[23:29] <webjazz> not hearing any sound though....but i got 2 go...where do you live?
[23:29] <ailo> Er, Sweden. Being a night owl right now
[23:30] <webjazz> I am in Holland. hope to catch you later, u ve been a big help!
[23:30] <webjazz> cheers, Henk
[23:30] <ailo> webjazz: Thanks. Hope you find some useful tools
[23:33] <webjazz> bye!