[02:31] <_stink_> morning
[08:17] <Scary_Guy> morning
[12:10] <cmaloney> morning
[12:10] <jrwren> anyone else get an email from cacert?
[12:16] <cmaloney> not that I'm aware of, but I also don't have ant certificates that aren't self-generated
[12:17] <jrwren> no lets encrypt?
[12:28] <cmaloney> Not yet. I haven't set it up
[12:28] <cmaloney> I should do that though
[12:30] <jrwren> LE is really great. really, really.
[13:06] <jrwren> this is crazy: https://forums.swift.org/t/differentiable-programming-mega-proposal/28547
[13:30] <cmaloney> "Differentiable programming is a new paradigm for programming in which programs can be differentiated throughout. "
[13:30] <cmaloney> Well, that clears thing sup
[13:32] <cmaloney> So this is deep learning with self-modifying code? (that's the 1 minute Google search)
[13:53] <brousch> I have no idea what this is talking about
[13:57] <jrwren> https://github.com/dan-zheng/swift/blob/differentiable-programming/docs/DifferentiableProgramming.md#math-introduction  <-- math background.
[13:58] <jrwren> i guess if you never studied equiv of highschool or college calculus, it is meaningless. sorry.
[13:58] <jrwren> it still blows my mind.
[15:38] <cmaloney> I got to Calculus II and completely flamed out
[15:38] <cmaloney> I still find math fascinating, as long as I don't have to calculate it. :)
[15:38] <jrwren> This is calc I stuffs.
[15:38] <cmaloney> Yeah, so I can understand the concepts
[15:38] <cmaloney> but it took marrying a physicist so I could get there. :)
[16:37] <jrwren> cmaloney: did you ever work with Chris Lahey when you were at SF?
[16:38] <cmaloney> Not to my knowledge. They're not in my contacts from that period
[18:20] <greg-g> grr, a nice huge DDOS against us on a late Friday evening (for our majority EU SRE team)
[18:21] <cmaloney> greg-g: Oof.  I was jokin... gl getting things defended.
[18:33] <greg-g> I know I know, I just always feel like brain dumping :)
[19:08] <brousch> No Limelight Networks?!
[20:13] <greg-g> tbf though, a scrubbing service would come in handy in these situations
[20:19] <greg-g> what I was linked to from a friend/community member who works for the largest NL ISP: https://www.nbip.nl/en/nawas/
[20:20] <greg-g> our network overview, now that you can load the page: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_network_overview.png
[20:20] <greg-g> :)
[20:20] <greg-g> better page: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Network_design
[20:24] <jrwren> The NBIP now protects more than 45% of Dutch Internet domains.
[20:24] <jrwren> impressive!


[11:01] <karni> Good morning team!
[11:17] <gatox> good morning!
[11:21] <karni> Morning gatox
[11:22] <gatox> karni, o/
[11:24] <gatox> karni, if you have a moment please :D https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-control-panel/share-indicator/+merge/131973
[11:24] <gatox> karni, also, if you have any branches pending for reviews..... feel free to through it to me
[11:27] <karni> gatox: I have one coming very soon, not just yet. But thanks :) Yeah, I'll have a look.
[11:28] <karni> gatox: Does that mean we're moving out from the notifications tray menu?
[11:32] <gatox> karni, nono..... this is a functionality that is intended for windows and mac..... but if you want to test it, you can use it on linux too with the --with-icon arg
[11:32] <karni> I see.
[11:33] <karni> gatox: +1'ed
[11:33] <gatox> karni, the notification tray menu is from u1 client..... and this is integrated with control panel..... which is always running on windows and mca..... not the case for linux
[11:33] <karni> gatox: I trust the tests pass on your machine, I still haven't gone through the developer set up for the desktop.
[11:33] <gatox> karni, thx
[11:33] <karni> gatox: I see. np!
[11:34] <gatox> karni, great
[13:55] <dobey> whee conf wifi
[13:56] <aquarius> :)
[13:58] <gatox> karni, another review (really small one) for when you have a moment (no rush): https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/menu-new-options/+merge/132106
[13:58] <aquarius> actually trying a different irc client
[14:01] <karni> gatox: sure
[14:02] <gatox> karni, thx!
[14:02] <karni> aquarius: Be right there with you.
[14:04] <karni> gatox: /s/Ubuntu One Website/Ubuntu One website or even 'web site' ? You'd have to ask a native speaker.
[14:05] <gatox> karni, that is in that way in the design document
[14:05] <karni> gatox: Looks like a capitalization convention you're using there consistently. "Open the Ubuntu One Folder" (Folder), "Share a File" (File).
[14:05] <karni> gatox: roger that!
[14:05] <gatox> karni, i just copy the string from design
[14:05] <karni> gatox: k :)
[14:06] <karni> gatox: "webbrowser.open(self._syncdaemon_service.get_rootdir())" -- this contains full "rootdir" url?
[14:06] <karni> gatox: such as http://one.ubuntu.com/files/~/Ubuntu One ? (or similar)
[14:07] <gatox> karni, that contains the absolute path to the user ubuntu one folder in the disk
[14:07] <karni> aha
[14:07] <gatox> as: /home/gatox/Ubuntu One
[14:07] <karni> gatox: So it'd spawn the default file browser, although it says "webbrowser" ?
[14:07] <gatox> karni, yap
[14:07] <karni> neat
[14:08] <gatox> karni, that implementation actually works on windows and linux....... for mac you need to add file:// at the start.... but THIS sync menu is only for linux.... so....
[14:09] <karni> gatox: This one's for linux, yep?
[14:09] <karni> gatox: +1'ed
[14:09] <dobey> ugh
[14:09] <gatox> karni, awesome, thx
[14:10] <karni> np
[14:10] <gatox> brb..... need to buy some vegetables in the fair downstairs
[14:11] <gatox> s/in/at
[14:21] <gatox> back
[14:42] <mmcc> hi folks
[14:43] <gatox> mmcc, hi
[14:45] <gatox> mmcc, when you have a time, can you re-review this one? https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-control-panel/share-indicator/+merge/131973
[14:45] <mmcc> gatox, yep, it's on my list.
[14:45] <gatox> mmcc, great, thanks!
[14:51] <karni> hi mmcc
[14:52] <mmcc> hi, karni
[15:00] <karni> me
[15:00] <gatox> me
[15:00] <briancurtin> me
[15:01] <rockstar> me
[15:01] <karni> dobey: me?
[15:01] <karni> mmcc: ↑
[15:02]  * karni is not sure who's around and who's not, sorry! :)
[15:02] <karni> DONE: shuffle, repeat TODO: pause when headset unplugged, pause/resume on incoming call NEXT: gatox
[15:02] <gatox> DONE:
[15:02] <gatox> Couple of branches to improve the Control Panel Share tab. Add Share tab and Ubuntu One folder access from the U1 sync menu indicator and the windows/mac implementation, both in control panel and ubuntu one client.
[15:02] <gatox> TODO:
[15:02] <gatox> Keep fixing control panel bugs, and figure it out how to fix the failing test on nightlies.
[15:02] <gatox> BLOCKED:
[15:02] <gatox> No
[15:02] <gatox> briancurtin, go
[15:03] <briancurtin> DONE: reviews for share branch, ubuntuone-client test debugging since 110 tests are failing
[15:03] <briancurtin> TODO: fix ubuntuone-client tests so i can continue with the release and get an installer to QA
[15:03] <briancurtin> NEXT: rockstar
[15:03] <rockstar> DONE: convert hand crafted view into xib
[15:03] <rockstar> TODO: continue work on the v2 api
[15:03] <rockstar> BLOCKED: No
[15:03] <rockstar> NEXT: ?
[15:03] <karni> UDS has kicked off, dunno who might be there as well.
[15:04] <gatox> briancurtin, when you have a moment.... this branch has been updated with the latests changes: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-control-panel/new-share-design/+merge/131397
[15:04] <gatox> eom?
[15:05] <karni> eom
[15:05] <briancurtin> gatox: yeah i saw that update yesterday. i ran the tests and everything is fine, but im having trouble running on windows (unrelated to your branch - SD doesnt want to run)
[15:05] <dobey> oh snap
[15:05] <briancurtin> gatox: once i get ubuntuone-client tests cleaned up and running, i'll try it again. working on it now
[15:06] <gatox> briancurtin, thx
[15:06] <mmcc> whoops. completely forgot standup, was making coffee…
[15:06] <dobey> DONE: script to tweak series/branch statuses
[15:06] <dobey> TODO: create next stable branches
[15:06] <dobey> BLCK: None.
[15:07] <mmcc> DONE: tests/polish on mac menu — TODO: continue, reviews — BLOCK: no
[15:08] <karni> np, thanks guys
[15:26]  * gatox lunch
[15:33] <dobey> lunch time, bbiab
[15:53] <mmcc> briancurtin - are you still having hangs because syncdaemon won't load? I'm testing gatox' branch on windows now and syncdaemon is complaining that one of the tritcask files is owned by another process (even though all the other u1 processes are dead) - is that familiar?
[15:54] <briancurtin> mmcc: i'm not seeing that particular issue right now, but i think this whole thing is related. i was seeing that for a while, then i was seeing a KeyError inside tritcask during local rescan, and now nothing obvious shows up in the logs but SD starts disconnected when i start U1CP
[15:55] <briancurtin> also u1client tests still fail big time on windows, so im trying to figure that out first
[15:55] <mmcc> it starts disconnected when you start CP with credentials or without credentials?
[15:55] <briancurtin> with
[15:55] <mmcc> ok, so probably not related to my cloud-folders fix
[15:55] <mmcc> oh crap, that still needs to be merged
[15:56] <briancurtin> mmcc: we never got back to fixing that up. it just seemed to hang forever for me IIRC
[15:56] <mmcc> right… ok I'll re-review that one myself now. assuming I can get things to start again :\
[15:58] <mmcc> ok, trying again with nuking all u1 processes got me a working CP
[15:59] <mmcc> (sans my cloud-folders fix)
[16:00] <diogobaeder> Guys, I found a problem. None of the songs from this album are loading for preview: http://goo.gl/0qytW
[16:01] <mmcc> diogobaeder that does sound like a problem (I see it too) - did you mean to send to u1-internal?
[16:02] <diogobaeder> mmcc, I was not sure what would be the best channel for it, so I sent it here. Will send further problems to #u1-internal next time :-)
[16:03] <mmcc> diogobaeder - this channel's pretty quiet wrt server-side stuff, even though I think most people are in both
[16:04] <diogobaeder> mmcc, ack
[16:04] <diogobaeder> I'll resend the message there
[16:08] <mmcc> briancurtin, gatox_lunch - on windows with current u1-client trunk and https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-control-panel/share-indicator/+merge/131973 , the systray menu 'share a file' menu item will open the shares tab, but the shares tab doesn't load… hung on the overlay, no useful log messages or tracebacks in either CP or SD
[16:08] <mmcc> gatox - share-indicator should have the code to use the new search_files stuff in u1-client, right
[16:08] <mmcc> ?
[16:09] <gatox_lunch> mmcc, no, this part doesn't depend on that
[16:12] <mmcc> gatox_lunch - ok, so the share-indicator branch doesn't contain the changes from search-shared-files, I see…
[16:12] <gatox_lunch> mmcc, aaja
[16:14] <mmcc> which might be why the shares tab doesn't load when I'm testing share-indicator… although I expect it to still work, since it was doing file scanning itself before you switched to the new api…
[16:14] <mmcc> anyway, I'll look at it. sorry to bug you during lunch
[16:17] <gatox_lunch> mmcc, no problem..... let me know if you find something
[16:21] <mmcc> oh this is frustrating. last time I quit U1CP on windows, it left the python icon in the taskbar. when I started it up again, it didn't put a new one in, and the old one doesn't work. and using the systray menu to bring up the CP window worked once but now it doesn't work
[16:21] <briancurtin> windows sucks
[16:21] <karni> +1
[16:21] <karni> :P heheh
[16:22] <mmcc> oh it was minimized or whatever? there's some real mismatch between how windows works and how I expect it to work
[16:22] <mmcc> I'm sure some of this is just me not knowing what it's supposed to be doing
[16:22] <karni> mmcc: I appreciate you guys do this (so that we don't have to do it ;P)
[16:22] <briancurtin> ah, windows is bad about knowing when to clear out taskbar icons of closed/crashed/etc applications
[16:22] <briancurtin> i'll look in there and it'll have 10 U1 icons
[16:25] <mmcc> karni - "you guys". the irony here is that I'm the Mac guy. :}
[16:27] <mmcc> I was about to say "it even says that in my job title", but it actually says "Mac/Win", so there you are
[16:28] <karni> mmcc: ha ;D (I am aware youre the 'Mac guy', still, you're helping out with Windows. Or it looks like so ;) )
[16:29] <mmcc> briancurtin - I'm seeing the thing where it's disconnected when it starts up. and the thing where the account info doesn't load, and when you minimize it to the taskbar and then re-show it, it tries to connect (?!)
[16:30] <mmcc> lots of fun on windows today
[16:31] <briancurtin> yeah the whole thing is just a ton of fun
[16:31] <mmcc> happy fun windows (do not taunt, etc. etc.)
[16:31] <briancurtin> ahhah
[16:35] <briancurtin> i guess this is all failing due to IPC
[16:37] <mmcc> kind of looks like syncdaemon is not getting the credentials found signal
[16:37] <mmcc> IPC, sigh
[16:42] <mmcc> no, I guess it got the creds ,since it pushes the USER_CONNECT event… but SD hangs at state='with user not network'
[16:47] <mmcc> looks like two different parts of the code are concurrently trying to popen ubuntu-sso-login
[16:51] <mmcc> and the last call to interaction_interfaces's connect() appears to have autoconnecting=False, even though my settings show that it should be true… (unless I'm misunderstanding that argument's meaning
[16:51] <mmcc> )
[16:51] <mmcc> brb, have to watch the kid for a minute
[17:22] <mmcc> briancurtin, so when I start syncdaemon first in a separate console, it doesn't complain, and CP seems to be respecting the auto-connect setting
[17:23] <briancurtin> hm, let me try that
[17:23] <mmcc>  - but it only gets to 'file sync starting' - it doesn't make it to idle
[17:26] <mmcc> yeah, controlpanel.backend.connect_files doesn't appear to be returning
[17:29] <briancurtin> nice
[17:29] <briancurtin> yeah i see the same thing here, file sync starting
[17:30] <karni> I'll run an errand, afk maybe 30"
[17:33] <mmcc> same issue, calling credentials.CredentialsManagementTool().login() from request_token is just returning a deferred that I guess is never firing
[17:35] <mmcc> although if you put a print after the line in interaction_interfaces in connect(), where it says token=yield self._request_token, it will get called once when you start syncdaemon, but *not* when you then later start CP
[17:37] <mmcc> no, now I'm not sure that's true
[17:38] <mmcc> yeah, that wasn't it
[17:38] <mmcc> it does get the right token from _request_token both times
[17:38] <briancurtin> i'm looking back through revisions to see when this stuff might've changed. this was working early last week
[17:41] <dobey> hrmm
[17:48] <mmcc> gotta love how all the comments in ipc_service.py reference dbus
[18:04] <mmcc> I'm getting a hunch that we are registering for signals incorrectly in ipc_service.py (in ubuntuone/platform/credentials) but I don't really understand what's going on in RemovableSignal, which we're calling with the signal name 'on_credentials_found_cb', and grepping for that in all the projects doesn't give any useful results
[18:11] <mmcc> trying a little instrumentation to see what's going on there
[18:13] <mmcc> it looks like we're registering for 'on_credentials_found_cb', and sso is sending 'CredentialsFound'
[18:13] <mmcc> there's a mapping between the two in ipc_service.py, but it's not clear why
[18:13] <briancurtin> is that affecting mac as well, or is this only on windows?
[18:13] <mmcc> that is, a mapping from CredentialsFound (and similar) to 'on_credentials_found_cb' and similar
[18:14] <mmcc> briancurtin only windows, afaict. that's a big WTF, for sure.
[18:15] <mmcc> A difference is that we're using unix sockets on mac, and tcp on windows, so maybe there's something different about how it handles multiple connections that makes it work on macs despite this
[18:15] <gatox> dobey, i just answered to your need info
[18:17] <dobey> ok
[18:19] <mmcc> whoops, have to go for lunch now.
[18:29]  * briancurtin back in a bit
[18:33] <dobey> have to run for a few, brb
[18:39] <karni> Was slighly longer. Will make it up now.
[19:17] <dobey> hey karni
[19:17] <karni> hi dobey
[19:29] <gatox> back..... little internet issue
[19:38] <dobey> gatox: and we are not showing the newly accepted shares in there at all are we?
[19:39] <gatox> dobey, no..... i suggested that..... but it was decided that doing that seems to be adding a feature just to fill the space.... and it's true
[19:39] <gatox> so it was decided to not do tha
[19:39] <gatox> that
[19:40] <dobey> well that's good at least; having that in 2 places would be weird
[19:41] <dobey> meh; between uds and holidays, finding the right people to talk to about some things isn't exactly easy :-/
[19:42] <gatox> dobey, if you have any question about this..... ask me.... maybe i can help you.... my last branches in particular are based in a lot of stuff we have been discusing lately
[19:44] <dobey> i have some questions about launchpad/bzr; was writing an awesome script to make my life easier, but i guess i'll have to make stable branches the hard way for now :-/
[19:45] <gatox> ahh
[19:46] <dobey> i guess i still have some questions about your branch (and i guess, the indicator menu in general)
[19:47] <gatox> dobey, shoot
[19:48] <dobey> gatox: what happens if a user clicks on that "share a file" entry, and control panel is already running (and is behind a bunch of firefox windows or something)?
[19:51] <gatox> dobey, in the u1-client or the control panel implementation?
[19:51] <gatox> dobey, basically..... is going to do the same as it does when you choose the "open ubuntu one" optoin...... but moving the current tab to the "share" tab
[19:52] <dobey> well i imagine it will be less problematic in the control panel implementation.
[19:52] <dobey> gatox: yes, but my question is about when cp is already open
[19:53] <dobey> gatox: in which case it seems the desired behavior is broken
[19:53] <gatox> dobey, on linux at least..... it just shows the icon in the launcher jumping to notify that the application is trying to request the focus
[19:54] <dobey> gatox: not here it doesn't (quantal)
[19:54] <gatox> dobey, mmm.... i'm in quantal too
[19:55] <dobey> i get no shaking icon
[19:56] <gatox> ahhhh right..... for the open ubuntu one.... i get the icon..... for share a file the application just popup to the front
[19:56] <dobey> see bug #1063927
[19:57] <dobey> gatox: i don't get the icon doing anything special, for either case
[19:57] <dobey> the window does get raised (if it's not minimized) though; however, it doesn't have focus
[19:58] <dobey> not sure how/why that is, but we should fix it
[19:58] <gatox> dobey, either way..... i think that is not related to this branch....... we should fix that in the part from control panel or whatever where the process is spawned
[19:58] <mmcc> briancurtin, any new news on that windows IPC issue?
[19:59] <gatox> dobey, i mean..... the one which receive the call
[19:59] <briancurtin> mmcc: none from my end, im working on getting SD tests fixed up at the moment
[19:59] <mmcc> briancurtin ok, I'll keep poking then. will let you know if I learn anything useful
[19:59] <dobey> gatox: even so, there is no way to fix the --switch-to case, without making the control panel a service
[20:00] <gatox> dobey, mmh
[20:00] <briancurtin> dumb bzr question: how can i tell what revision i'm currently at? all i can tell right now is that im not at the tip
[20:00] <briancurtin> oh there we go, bzr revno
[20:00] <gatox> dobey, yes....
[20:00] <dobey> gatox: this will also be an issue on mac, where the menu will be a separate process, and not part of cp
[20:01] <mmcc> dobey - right, but we're going to have to use a separate mechanism to bring cp to the front, and I'm not sure yet how to handle showing the shares tab
[20:01] <gatox> dobey, wait..... which branch are you reviewing..... the one from u1-client is only valid for linux
[20:02] <mmcc> er, that is - dobey is right, *and* it's my problem, not gatox's :)
[20:02] <dobey> mmcc: the mechanism isn't just "run the control panel" like it is in this code?
[20:02] <briancurtin> ha, well either bzr revno is wrong or my tree is wrong...so rm -Rf i guess
[20:03] <gatox> dobey, for this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/menu-new-options/+merge/132106 the behavior is only valid for linux..... because that is to interact with the sync menu indicator..... which we only have on Ubuntu
[20:03] <dobey> gatox: no, the behavior is supposed to be the same across all the menu implementations (which we now have to have 3 of, which also sucks)
[20:04] <mmcc> briancurtin - comparing bzr revno to the trunk revno is problematic… can be higher than trunk revno if you have lots of local commits
[20:04] <gatox> dobey, no, because the other menu implementations are in the control panel, the one in u1-client is just for ubuntu
[20:04] <briancurtin> mmcc: i'm just going backward from trunk with no changes at all. i thought i was on 1350, it claimed 1355, now i have no idea. whatever, bzr is awful.
[20:04] <gatox> dobey, because the other one is using qt..... which we don't have in u1-client
[20:04] <mmcc> briancurtin bzr qlog  is probably your friend here. revnos are not usually helpful IMO
[20:06] <dobey> gatox: no, the mac menu won't be the cp --with-icon thing. mmcc has written a proper menu with pyobjc for mac.
[20:06] <gatox> dobey, that is because on linux we have u1-client running all the time...... and on windows/mac we have also the u1-cp running all the time..... and in those platforms, cp is the one who adds the syncmenu
[20:06] <mmcc> dobey: causing CP to run / come to the front is basically "run CP", but making it do that, then open the share tab, even if it's already running, is not easy. I can't do what he's doing in open_share_tab, because I'm in a different process…
[20:06] <gatox> dobey, ah yes....... but i don't see how is that related to this
[20:07] <mmcc> gatox  -well, for one, we won't have CP running all the time any more
[20:07] <mmcc> on osx
[20:07] <dobey> mmcc: what he's doing in open_share_tab is running "ubuntuone-control-panel-qt --switch-to share_links"
[20:07] <gatox> mmcc, you can do what i do on u1-client..... spawn the u1-cp process with: --switch-to tab-share
[20:07] <dobey> mmcc: the problem is that argument is ignored in cp, if it's already running
[20:07] <gatox> mmcc, sorry..... share_links
[20:07] <mmcc> I must be looking at a different branch…
[20:07] <briancurtin> ooh, qlog is nice
[20:08]  * dobey does wish this one branch was 2 branches instead
[20:08] <mmcc> I was looking at this: ~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-control-panel/share-indicator
[20:08] <gatox> mmcc, dobey is talking about this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/menu-new-options/+merge/132106
[20:08] <mmcc> oh
[20:10] <mmcc> so yeah, what happens when you do that and cp is already running? …
[20:11] <mmcc> also, not new in that branch, but open_go_to_web has "Ubuntu" misspelled in its docstring :)
[20:11] <dobey> basically, not the desired thing :)
[20:11] <mmcc> right…
[20:11] <dobey> so it does
[20:12] <gatox> dobey, ahhhhh now i see what you mean... the problem wasn't if it opens or don't u1..... the problem was that it doesn't change to the propre tab
[20:12] <gatox> dobey, i wasn't understand what you mean
[20:12] <dobey> gatox: it doesn't change to the tab; nor does the window grab focus
[20:13] <gatox> dobey, well..... in my case doesn't grab focus..... but the icon in the launcher get highlighted, and in awn start jumping
[20:13] <dobey> gatox: well, it's supposed to grab focus. if it's not already running, then the right thing happens, and the window has focus
[20:14] <karni> rockstar: Do you also have shuffle play in iOS music app? I just realized the "prev" button in case of shuffle enabled doesn't do the job well.
[20:14] <karni> rockstar: If you do, how do you approach it? Randomizing a list of songs? I try to keep as little in memory as possible. Even my play queue is persisted and queried (SQLite) only on demand.
[20:14] <gatox> dobey, ok..... but the place to fix that wouldn't be u1-cp?
[20:14] <rockstar> karni, trunk might, but this 2.0 branch doesn't currently.
[20:15] <karni> rockstar: trunk - whatever is on App Store?
[20:15] <karni> urbanape: Hi hi!
[20:15] <karni> urbanape: Do you also have shuffle play in iOS music app? I just realized the "prev" button in case of shuffle enabled doesn't do the job well.
[20:15] <dobey> gatox: well i don't think the tab not switching is fixable in just u1-cp at least
[20:15] <karni> urbanape: If you do, how do you approach it? Randomizing a list of songs? I try to keep as little in memory as possible. Even my play queue is persisted and queried (SQLite) only on demand.
[20:16] <dobey> gatox: admittedly i don't know that code all that well either
[20:16] <rockstar> karni, yes. I'd check, but i have my current branch on my phone, so it would require deleting that first.
[20:17] <dobey> gatox: also, i'm not really sure we should have these things in the menus
[20:17] <dobey> gatox: also also, one can't share a file, anyway. one can only share folders :)
[20:17] <karni> rockstar: Whenever/if you have time. I'm actually more interested how that's solved than if it is in the app at all (if it is) :) If you know what I mean.
[20:17] <rockstar> karni, as I recall from the web player, a good shuffle is relatively non-trivial.
[20:17] <karni> rockstar: I'll try to grap urbanape.
[20:17] <dobey> so there is some language issues i think we need to take up with design
[20:17] <karni> rockstar: Indeed.
[20:18] <urbanape> karni: I'm heading out just now, but I'll be back later tonight
[20:18] <karni> urbanape: Ah cool! no problem :)
[20:18] <karni> Talk to you then.
[20:18] <rockstar> Basically, you'd have to keep track of the songs that you've played, in the order, and when it chooses another random song, it needs to ensure that the song it picked hasn't played until they've all played.
[20:18] <gatox> dobey, well....... share a file..... technically will be "publish a file"..... but....... for that...... and include or not include that in the menu we should talk with someone from the design team....... did you take a look at the document i mentioned? where it specifies what the menu should have and do?
[20:19] <dobey> i did
[20:19] <dobey> but it doesn't mean the design itself doesn't need a bit more review :)
[20:20] <gatox> dobey, yes....... i understand...... so....... are you suggesting to freeze this until we have roberto or alecuu here to discuss it further?
[20:20] <dobey> also that doc doesn't really say anything about *why* the various things need to be there
[20:20] <dobey> just that they should be there
[20:21] <gatox> dobey, all the documents i got from design are like that :P
[20:21] <dobey> :(
[20:22] <gatox> dobey, ok.......  do you want to freeze this to discuss it with the rest of the team later and take a well informed decision?
[20:22] <mmcc> hrm. "later" is kind of far off, you're basically saying "London"…
[20:22] <dobey> well there are things that need fixing otherwise too, i think
[20:23] <mmcc> I'm going to have to make some choices for the mac menu sooner than that
[20:23] <gatox> yes..... later is really far away
[20:23] <dobey> mmcc: well, there's tomorrow; i don't think all of design are on vacation, or in .dk
[20:24] <gatox> dobey, yes...... but at least lisette that was working on this is not in our team anymore
[20:24] <mmcc> dobey, that's true. as for 'open control panel and switch to the share files tab', I am happy tabling that until London, since it'll need some CP changes I think
[20:25] <gatox> dobey, ok....... we can try to start pinging people tomorrow..... let me know when you are here..... i'll be earlier
[20:25] <gatox> 'll be here earlier
[20:25] <dobey> i'll probably just e-mail
[20:25] <gatox> dobey, can you cc me?
[20:25] <dobey> yes
[20:26] <gatox> dobey, thx
[20:26] <mmcc> me too, please…
[20:26] <gatox> dobey, i don't have any problem if it is decided that this shouldn't be included..... but..... i did it because it was in the document, and was dicussed a couple of time that it should be done after the freeze.... that's why
[20:26] <mmcc> gatox, what else is on your plate now? Are you familiar with the Windows IPC stuff? can you see how things are working for you in windows land - see if you get similar problems with trunk to what brian and I have been seeing?
[20:28] <gatox> mmcc, nothing major here....... so i can take a look at that....... probably tomorrow because i already pass my eod here....... it would be very helpful if you or briancurtin can sent me an short email telling me which are the problems..... i'm familiar with the ipc part so i can try to figure it out if i know what i should be looking for
[20:29] <mmcc> gatox, ok. here's the email: "running control panel from source hangs on the loading overlay at various places. most recently in the shares tab, for me."
[20:29] <mmcc> I will send more details when I'm done poking at it today
[20:30] <gatox> mmcc, awesome, thx!! i'll start looking at that first time tomorrow.... if you find any other thing please send me an email
[20:30] <gatox> ok..... eod here! i'll specting some emails tomorrow from you :D
[20:30] <gatox> byeeeeeee
[20:30] <mmcc> ok, thanks gatox :) bye
[20:41] <mmcc> I wonder if this is related to the problem mandel had to hack around on osx with the 'credentials found' signal not being sent when you first log in -- there are apparently a few different ways that we're returning results in IPC calls - sometimes via signals, sometimes via return values…
[20:42] <briancurtin> am i missing something or does this change look to be fairly harmless? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntuone-client/trunk/revision/1351 - this is where the tests picked up 110 failures
[20:44] <karni> rockstar: Right. I'll tell you what my problem is. First of all, I don't want to do the shuffle in memory. So I flag the songs which have been already played, and pick the next random one from the rest.
[20:44] <karni> rockstar: As you can see, it's easy to pick the next random one, but I'd have to track the previous one as well, so that you can hit "prev".
[20:45] <karni> rockstar: SO, I can use this column that I have, shuffle_order, which contains random ints, and sorting by it would give me the order of the queue.
[20:45] <rockstar> What if they hit "prev" twice, or three times?
[20:45] <karni> rockstar: Even worse. No way. But listen up.
[20:46] <mmcc> briancurtin, yeah, that seems very harmless… hm
[20:46] <karni> rockstar: The problem/disadventage is that if the user hits "shuffle" I should update that column for all tracks on that list, which would be equivalent of doing something like Collections.shuffle(playQueue) on the playQueue (in memory).
[20:46] <rockstar> Yeah, I think that's the solution you want.
[20:47] <karni> rockstar: So, if I want prev/next, I think it's either in memory solution (easier, but more memory), or update that shuffle_order column (slighly more complex, but memory efficient).
[20:47] <mmcc> briancurtin - what are the failures that's causing?
[20:47] <karni> rockstar: Yeah.. k, I wanted a sanity check. Thanks.
[20:48] <briancurtin> mmcc: they're all in test.platform.test_tools. no real indication of whats happening except that the defer never fires, or something..."still running at 5.0 secs"
[20:48] <mmcc> briancurtin oh yeah, I saw those too
[20:48] <mmcc> so if you revert that change, everything's OK? whoa
[20:49] <briancurtin> mmcc: yep, going back to the previous revision, everything's cool
[20:51] <mmcc> briancurtin weird.
[20:54] <mmcc> kind of does seem like the network manager should be mocked out for tests though. It's spawning threads for each of these tests, and doesn't need to
[20:55] <mmcc> not sure why that's changed though
[20:55] <mmcc> I mean, why that rev would change things
[20:56] <mmcc> briancurtin - fwiw, the corresponding changes in sso are here: https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu-sso-client/lint-roller/+merge/131016
[20:57] <briancurtin> yeah i saw those, and made sure i have an up-to-date sso to match
[20:59] <mmcc> well, one thing is that networkstate/windows.py has its own internal definitions of ONLINE,OFFLINE,UNKNOWN still -- despite those being defined in networkstates now
[20:59] <mmcc> (that's my fault !)
[21:00] <mmcc> so if the tests are comparing the return values of networkmanager anywhere to networkstates.ONLINE, for instance, it won't work as expected
[21:00] <briancurtin> good catch. hmm.
[21:02] <mmcc> oh, not really totally my fault! I didn't create networkstates.py… I had plenty of missed chances to notice though :(
[21:02] <dobey> hmm
[21:03] <mmcc> ok, I'm going back to looking at IPC. as usual, asking the question "how does this ever work?"
[21:18] <briancurtin> i pushed that little networkstates branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~brian.curtin/ubuntu-sso-client/networkstates-update/+merge/132206 if anyone can do a super-small review
[21:19] <briancurtin> i need to head out a bit early and pick up my girlfriend. i'll either come back later on or more likely start work earlier tomorrow
[22:00] <mmcc> good news - that windows networkstates branch also fixed the ipc errors I was seeing. I guess the problem must have been that it thought there was no network, so it decided it couldn't connect.
[22:00] <karni> mmcc: \o/
[22:00] <mmcc> we don't handle telling the user about that error condition very well (ie, not at all)
[22:06] <dobey> briancurtin: lint issue in that branch :)
[22:06] <briancurtin> dobey: just pushed a fix
[22:06] <dobey> great
[22:29] <dobey> alright, need to get away from here for a bit. still need to send that e-mail though, so will be back later
[22:29] <dobey> later
[22:29] <briancurtin> see ya
[22:32] <mmcc> ok, I have to go carve a pumpkin before it gets dark. I'll be back later too…
[23:04]  * karni triages an SQL update issue
[23:21] <karni> Something's up with resolving playlist content, but I've temporarily worked it around using full (verbose) song URIs, which works.
[23:21] <karni> Premature optimization is the source of all evil, isn't it.
[23:24]  * karni EODs, night all!


[19:59] <mamarley> ricotz_: I was eventually able to make 410.57 packages for Bionic, Xenial, and Trusty in https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages.  At least two users have tested the Bionic ones.


[00:21] <RAOF> To the espresso machine repairer!
[01:44] <duflu> Oh, looky. utopic gets 0.6! https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir
[06:10] <duflu> alf_: Around?
[06:30] <alf_> duflu: yes
[06:35] <duflu> alf_: Since 0.6.0 got released today we're getting bug reports of https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1348515
[06:35] <duflu> Do you want to revive the fix?
[06:36] <RAOF> Urgh :(
[06:37] <duflu> Should only affect developers. Unfortunately due to other bugs even non-developers will be -dev packages already
[06:37] <duflu> will *have*
[06:40] <alf_> duflu: RAOF: So, I am not sure what the right fix is. Probably change < 0.5.1+14.10.20140722-0ubuntu1 to << 0.6~ ?
[06:41] <duflu> alf_: Surely "<< 0.6" ?
[06:41] <RAOF> 0.6~ would be right(erish)
[06:41] <duflu> Righterish then
[06:42] <alf_> duflu: RAOF: ok, let me propose that then
[06:44] <alf_> duflu: @cross-compile with 4.9, I have to change the cross compilation cmake file to explictly use 4.9. Does the current plain '...-g++' work for you?
[06:45] <duflu> alf_: It does now. Today's updates insisted on replacing the 4.8 one with 4.9
[06:45] <alf_> duflu: ok, thanks
[06:46] <duflu> Come to think of it I had experimented with 4.9 x-compiles a while back and forgot about it
[06:54] <duflu> alf_: I didn't mean to ask you to fix the bug. Only that you already had a fix in progress :)
[06:55] <duflu> And in 24 hours we may well have a lot more duplicates coming in from utopic users
[06:55] <duflu> (un)fortunately not a large proportion of users are set with with LP accounts to report bugs
[06:56] <alf_> duflu: no worries, it's a trivial fix (assuming it works). Come to think of it again, perhaps you are right, the tilde in (<< 0.6~) doesn't make much sense (doesn't hurt either)
[06:56] <alf_> RAOF: ^^ ?
[06:57] <RAOF> alf_: Doesn't matter much either way :)
[06:58] <alf_> well, unless someone releases 0.6~ver, but then again someone may release 0.6~~ :)
[07:00] <duflu> Debian version sorting looks complicated :P
[07:02] <RAOF> Bah, ok, then. I'll write a double-buttocked stub platform.
[07:05] <alf_> RAOF: duflu: https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/mir/fix-mircommon-debian-replaces/+merge/230583
[07:06] <duflu> alf_: Ta
[08:26] <seb128> is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/+bug/1354564 an issue somebody is looking at?
[08:26] <seb128> real keyboard not working on unity8-mir-desktop sessions
[08:47] <duflu> seb128: Sorry, I didn't notice that one. I'll make sure we don't lose track of it
[08:48] <seb128> duflu, thanks
[08:59] <ogra_> hmm, there seems to be a new hard dependency on freedreno in Mir ... the 0.6.0 release pulled that inot the touch images which makes the tarball grow by 4MB ... is this hard dep actually nercessary ?
[09:00] <ogra_> (we are very short on space in touch and will never use freedreno there)
[09:09] <duflu> ogra_: That's probably not from Mir directly, but something else Mir uses. See Mir doesn't mention it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/0.6/view/head:/debian/control
[09:14] <duflu> ogra_: Try removing "freedreno" and see what packages complain?
[09:15] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8034516/
[09:15] <ogra_> seems libdrm ... via mesa :/
[09:16] <ogra_> s/via/and/
[09:17] <alf_> ogra_: the question is: why are we pulling in mesa and libdrm on the phone in the first place?
[09:18] <ogra_> alf_, some deps i think ...
[09:19] <anpok> shlib deps?
[09:19] <anpok> on mirserver ..
[09:20] <anpok> nm, looked at the x86 build..
[09:22] <alf_> ogra_: some mir packages depend on libegl1-mesa (>= 7.8.1) | libegl1-x11 and libgles2-mesa (>= 7.8.1) | libgles2 , perhaps we could change these so they are satisfied by what touch provides with the android drivers?
[09:23] <ogra_> alf_, yeah that would be good i guess ... if we can drop mesa we definitely should
[09:29] <alf_> ogra_: hmm, the libhybris packages doesn't provide libgles2 nor libegl1(-android) or similar, not sure what the policy for libegl packages is
[09:29] <ogra_> lets wait for rsalveti i guess :)
[16:13] <racarr> Morning
[16:24] <Saviq> incomiiiing!
[16:24] <mterry> :)
[16:24] <mterry> Hey folks!
[16:25] <mterry> I need help with a promotion-blocking bug
[16:25] <mterry> I'm seeing behavior where /run/user/32011/mir_socket_trusted is created, but the normal mir_socket file in that directory is *not*
[16:25] <mterry> Any guesses on what code path would cause that?
[16:26] <dednick> alan_g: ^
[16:27] <kdub> mterry, is the MIR_SERVER_FILE set? or did it go to /tmp/ somehow?
[16:27] <kdub> also, the default is based on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
[16:27] <mterry> kdub, let me double confirm env
[16:28] <dednick> mterry: check for tmp/mir_socket
[16:28] <mterry> MIR_SERVER_FILE=/run/user/32011/mir_socket and XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/32011 for unity8, which should be creating these
[16:28] <mterry> dednick, no such file
[16:28] <dednick> although i don't know why the trusted one would be at a different location
[16:29] <mterry>  /run/mir_socket exists, but that's for USC
[16:29] <mterry> kdub, ^ see above about the environ
[16:30] <dednick> mterry: what about MIR_SOCKET ?
[16:30] <kdub> the trusted file can be changed via MIR_SERVER_PROMPT_FILE
[16:31] <kdub> mterry, its somewhat strange that MIR_SERVER_FILE is set in the environment
[16:31] <mterry> MIR_SOCKET=/run/user/32011/mir_socket but MIR_SERVER_HOST_SOCKET=/run/mir_socket
[16:31] <mterry> kdub, ^
[16:31] <mterry> kdub, the unity8 upstart job sets that
[16:31] <kdub> mir won't parse MIR_SOCKET, iirc
[16:31] <dednick> mterry: is MIR_SOCKET set outside of the unity8 env?
[16:32] <kdub> oh, I take that back
[16:32] <mterry> dednick, I think lightdm does
[16:32] <dednick> kdub: it's something in u8 upstart
[16:32] <kdub> it does parse MIR_SOCKET
[16:32] <mterry> dednick, does set it rather
[16:33] <mterry> kdub, MIR_SOCKET is set to the same as SERVER_FILE.  But when unity8 started, it was set to /run/mir_socket
[16:33] <mterry> kdub, which is normal Mir operation, as I recall (to re-set the var for the sake of any subprocesses)
[16:36] <kdub> and no failures? sounds like something's not set or not parsed as expected
[16:38] <kdub> like, forgive me if you know all this but
[16:38] <mterry> kdub, I don't see a message in unity8 log
[16:38] <kdub> MIR_SERVER_FILE will set the server's socket file for clients to that server
[16:38] <kdub> MIR_SERVER_HOST_SOCKET will set the socket for a nested mir to connect to
[16:39] <mterry> Yes.  And those values are seemingly set correctly for unity8
[16:39] <mterry> I'm just not seeing the mir_socket file existing
[16:39] <mterry> Though I *am* seeing the mir_socket_trusted file
[16:39] <dednick> hm. wonder if someting closed the file.
[16:42] <mterry> dednick, uh oh
[16:42] <mterry> dednick, I think I see a scenario where that might happen in fact
[16:42] <mterry> but this would all explain unity8-dash, but not the weird unity8 behavior...
[16:43] <mterry> kdub, I may see the problem.  I think it's not Mir.  It's a job deleting the mir socket after unity8 makes it
[16:43] <kdub> mterry, ah, okay
[16:44] <mterry> kdub, thank you for looking!
[16:44] <kdub> yep, no problem
[16:45] <kdub> mterry, MIR_SERVER_CONNECTOR_REPORT=log also has a helpful line about where mir creates the socket too
[17:23] <rsalveti> alf_: ogra_: libhybris is not providing that because we decided (a bunch of months ago) that going with updates-alternatives was actually better
[17:24] <rsalveti> and removing mesa is not that trivial actually, I think we might have deps issues with some other packages
[17:24] <rsalveti> but we can try I guess
[17:24] <rsalveti> something we can try before rtm I'd guess
[17:24] <rsalveti> but it might be tricky
[17:24] <rsalveti> maybe we can ask help from foundations
[17:25] <ogra_> yeah
[17:26] <ogra_> rsalveti, i asked pat to actually organize a cross team event to review the seeds/manifests before RTM
[17:27] <rsalveti> great
[17:27] <ogra_> i guess we should just do it then
[17:27] <ogra_> or at least inspect it
[17:27] <rsalveti> but mesa is so core that it might not be that trivial
[17:27] <ogra_> yeah, i have no high hopes
[17:27] <rsalveti> just sucks that mesa brings a bunch of extras
[17:27] <ogra_> definitely ... that drm crap is annoying
[17:28] <ogra_> (and so bloated)
[17:28] <rsalveti> yeah
[17:28]  * ogra_ remebers we are fighting drm deps since the arm team startd
[17:29] <ogra_> thats like 4 years already .... still no solution
[18:05] <racarr> is everything failing CI due to this lxc-android-config stuff now?
[18:05] <racarr>  / are the appropriate people notified
[18:05] <kdub> hmm, I saw that this morning for the 1st time on a RAOF branch
[18:05] <kdub> is it happening everywhere?
[18:09] <kdub> racarr, ^^
[18:17] <racarr> kdub: It happened to your branch now
[18:17] <racarr> and my branch yesterday 2 times
[18:17] <racarr> in a row
[18:19] <racarr> seems all over :(
[18:19] <racarr> fix-1348330 I mean
[18:20] <racarr> has there been a change in the partitioning setup that one of the makos hasn't received (shot in the dark lol...)
[18:20] <racarr> not really sure what could be goiung on
[18:23] <kdub> racarr, yeah, seems dpkg is trying copy cross-partition, and the device won't let it
[18:23] <kdub> for lxc-android-config
[18:24] <racarr> mm
[18:32] <racarr> robotfuel: Are you still master of the mediumtests-runner-mako ?
[18:32] <racarr> I think we need to remove the dist-upgrade from the CI job
[18:33] <racarr> e.g. lxc-android-config isnt supposed to be runtime upgraded
[18:48] <robotfuel> racarr: josharenson took that over I think. I can take a look though
[18:49] <josharenson> robotfuel, it can probably be removed.. It was there when glmark2 required adding a ppa
[18:49] <josharenson> oh wait
[18:50] <josharenson> no I'm not sure why it was there...
[18:50] <racarr> I think it just seems like a good idea right
[18:50] <racarr> dist upgrade why not
[18:50] <racarr> and someone forgot it wasnt safe on the phones (I mean I have seen this CI output dozens of times and never remembered lol)
[18:50] <racarr> if we don't want to mess with it upgrading the makos may be enough to fix things for now...not sure of the timing
[18:50] <josharenson> yeah it was in the script to begin with... what could it hurt to remove it?
[18:51] <racarr> of last promotion/the lxc-android update
[18:51] <josharenson> I'll remove it now, and watch the builds
[18:51] <racarr> uhhh
[18:51] <racarr> I don't think it could hurt anything
[18:51] <racarr> just have to make sure the makos are kept up to date
[18:51] <racarr> with images
[18:51] <racarr> not sure how that is handled
[18:52] <josharenson> racarr, uh I don't see a dist upgrade happening... grep agrees, let me look closer
[18:53] <josharenson> at least in the mir-medium-test-runner-for-jenkins job
[18:57] <racarr> josharenson: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/mir-mediumtests-runner-mako/2386/console
[18:57] <racarr> + apt-get dist-upgrade -y --force-yes
[18:57] <racarr> btw ive always wondered what is a medium test
[18:57] <racarr> lol
[18:58] <josharenson> racarr, I see it there, but its not in the lp project that I have commit access to
[18:58] <racarr> ah
[18:58] <josharenson> and I also have no idea what a mediumtest is
[18:58] <josharenson> we should be running hardtests
[18:58] <racarr> lol
[18:59] <josharenson> anyways, robotfuel, you know where the dist-upgrade comes from?
[19:00] <robotfuel> it might be in the jenkins job
[19:00] <robotfuel> it was from a long time ago :P
[19:02] <racarr> looks like its part of some "preinstall" step
[19:04] <robotfuel> racarr: josharenson http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/+junk/mir-medium-test-runner-for-jenkins/view/head:/mir_install_packages.sh is where it's at
[19:04] <robotfuel> line 18...
[19:05] <racarr> :)
[19:06] <josharenson> robotfuel, so I'm very confused now... Is the jenkins job pointing to the project in ~josharenson/+junk/ or ~mirteam/+junk
[19:06] <josharenson> because my version of the file doesn't have that
[19:08] <robotfuel> josharenson:  lp:~mir-team/+junk/mir-medium-test-runner-for-jenkins is in the job config
[19:09] <josharenson> robotfuel, I thought we changed that in Malta?
[20:34] <kdub> josharenson, robotfuel, racarr kinda trailed off... but is that problem setting up the lxc-android-config still ongoing? https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/mir-mediumtests-utopic-touch/
[20:35] <kdub> trying to figure out when its worthwhile to retrigger landings
[20:35] <josharenson> kdub, I didn't make any changes, so its probably still happening.. Since the issue isn't part of the single lp repo I have access to, there isn't anything I can do I don't think :-/
[20:37] <kdub> josharenson, ack, I'll go agitate over in #ubuntu-ci-eng
[20:37] <josharenson> gl
[20:50] <racarr> Is anyone using sbuild to cross compile mir?
[20:50] <racarr> I am having difficulties... g++-4.9:armhf : Depends: gcc-4.9:armhf (= 4.9.1-5ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[20:55] <kdub> i've tried with sbuild, but havent had much luck
[21:05] <racarr> cross-compile-chroot isnt working for me anymore either :(
[21:05] <racarr>   The C compiler "/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc" is not able to compile a
[21:05] <racarr> simple test program bla bla bla
[21:05] <racarr> but blank output
[21:06] <kdub> racarr, did you do the transition to 4.9?
[21:06] <kdub> i had to like configure the alternatives to get it going a bit ago
[21:08] <racarr> kdub: Hmm? On the host or in the chroot. This is a new chroot.
[21:08] <racarr> host is 4.9
[21:08] <kdub> host, right
[21:08] <kdub> lemme try to regenerate the chroot from devel, a few mins
[21:13] <racarr> kdub: Thanks :)
[21:29] <fginther> kdub, moving here now... Right now, the disabled test will likely cause all MPs to fail. Is it better to remove the test and allow MPs to pass?
[21:30] <kdub> fginther, I guess camako or kgunn_ should make that call
[21:31] <kdub> although I'm becoming a bit backlogged, I'd prefer to wait
[21:31] <fginther> camako, kgunn_, to catch you up. the mir-mediumtests-runner-mako test is causing a new version of adbd to be installed. This will wedge the phone and require a human to restart it. I've had to disable the test so that all of the phones don't die
[21:32] <fginther> a new image is likely to resolve this, allowing for a proper fix to be implemented to deal with this problem the next time
[21:36] <kgunn_> camako, i defer to you, but kinda feels like we should catch the next image
[21:38]  * camako is looking at the script
[21:40] <camako> kgunn_, everyone on the team runs the tests that this script runs (and more) on a regular basis.. so it's ok for a while..
[21:41] <kgunn_> camako, you bet, that argument makes sense
[21:41] <camako> kgunn_ this is the script I was looking at before the release... It has other problems as well, e.g. demos don't work
[21:42] <kgunn_> ack
[21:42] <fginther> camako, kgunn_, so the request is to continue testing MPs, but remove this test until the next image?
[21:42] <camako> fginther, I think it's fine.. what 's the ETA on the image?
[21:42] <fginther> camako, about 6 hours
[21:43] <camako> fginther, not a problem
[21:43] <camako> fginther would you mind giving me a heads up when you've reenabled it?
[21:43] <kgunn_> ok, still having fun-with-computers TM...rebooting
[21:44] <camako> fginther, also , the 0.4, and 0.5 specific scripts can now be removed.. We'll soon need 0.7 :-) (will let you know when)
[21:46] <fginther> camako, sure. If for some reason the next image doesn't contain the expected version of adbd, I'll need to keep it disabled. Will give you a notice either way
[21:46] <fginther> assuming the image arrives before I go to bed tonight (which it should0
[21:47] <camako> fginther, np, I'll change the title on IRC/mir to let people know that they need to run the tests manually until further notice
[21:49] <racarr> fginther: There were other issues before the new version of adb being installed, i.e. upgrading lxc-android-config
[21:49] <racarr> which apparently should never be done
[21:49] <fginther> ugh
[21:49] <racarr> so I think the problem is dist-upgrade being run on
[21:50] <racarr> the phones
[21:50] <racarr> as part of CI
[21:50] <racarr> right? It's just not safe
[21:50] <racarr> and I don't think there is any particular need to do it
[21:52] <fginther> racarr, In that context I agree, although I've heard it argued the other way that without a dist-upgrade it's missing potential bug fixes, etc.
[21:52] <racarr> hmm
[21:53] <fginther> racarr, I'm not even sure if this was pulled in due to a dist-upgrade (I assume you are right, but haven't checked yet)
[21:53] <racarr> yes perhaps not
[21:53] <racarr> the lxc-android-config was
[21:53] <racarr> maybe we need
[21:53] <racarr> a blacklist of packages
[21:53] <racarr> not to upgrade
[21:54] <racarr> i.e. the script can, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade --simulate or whatever it is
[21:54] <racarr> remove lxc-android-config, adb, etc
[21:54] <racarr> upgrade all remaining packages
[21:54] <fginther> racarr, right, that would be an option. Sure we can figure out some way to avoid insalling those


[13:13] <gary_poster> Hi everyone
[13:14] <gary_poster> bcsaller, when you are available (hopefully this morning) we should try to have the call we were supposed to have Wednesday afternoon.  I've read the reviews of your branch, and will also look at the code
[13:37] <gary_poster> Everybody, I just did some kanban surgery.  (1) I moved the cards for the environment view refactoring to the "secondary story," which has a WIP limit of 3.
[13:38] <gary_poster> This includes bcsaller's active card
[13:38] <gary_poster> (2) I reduced the WIP limit for the primary story to 5.
[13:38] <gary_poster> We should all be able to work on primary or secondary story at any time, which have a total WIP of 8.
[13:39] <gary_poster> (3) I moved almost all of the pending tasks to the backlog.
[13:39] <gary_poster> The only ones that stayed were ones that I thought had some reasonable connection to our new story.
[13:40] <gary_poster> (4) I moved all of the "Easy charm-based Juju GUI deployment" cards from the backlog to the active tasks for the primary project
[13:41] <gary_poster> That's it.
[13:41] <gary_poster> Keep on working on your in-progress cards; this only affects upcoming cards.
[13:41] <gary_poster> I'll send an email to this effect as well, for people who are not online right now.
[13:42] <gary_poster> (I'd like it if we had a public mailing list...)
[14:00] <frankban> gary_poster: cool, and re bug 1074412, It could be interesting to have a charm that switches from real env to improv based on a config flag (e.g. staging = true). Anyway, maybe that card should be considered blocked until bug 1074410 is reviewed and lands
[14:00] <_mup_> Bug #1074412: Need GUI charm that connects to its environment <deploy-story> <juju-gui:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074412 >
[14:00] <_mup_> Bug #1074410: Need juju GUI charm that connects to improv <deploy-story> <juju-gui:In Progress by frankban> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074410 >
[14:00] <gary_poster> frankban, big +1 that we should allow both
[14:02] <gary_poster> and yes, frankban , we should get that landed. I'm getting an email finished then will switch to reviews (though we have a meeting in one hour).  If you can find someone else to do that charm review other than me, that's completely fine by me.
[14:02] <gary_poster> I don't think that card is necessarily blocked--you could work from your branch--but I agree that ideally it would land first.
[14:03] <gary_poster> eh, too many unclear prepositions
[14:03] <gary_poster> eh, incorrect use of grammatical term
[14:04] <gary_poster> I think I should admit that I slept horribly last night and move on ;-)
[14:10] <frankban> gary_poster: re horrible night: :-(  and I agree to leave that card unblocked. Indeed I think I will even start that card ;-)
[14:11] <gary_poster> frankban, that will be difficult with the current WIP.  Are one of those three review cards super fast to review so we can clear it out and make room for you?  I can switch to that really quickly if so
[14:12] <gary_poster> Maybe teknico's is small...
[14:13] <teknico> it indeed is :-) and benji got wind of a few problems with it already
[14:13] <gary_poster> ok looking
[14:18] <teknico> gary_poster, btw, you'll recognize that card as connected to one of my goals for next year :-)
[14:18] <gary_poster> teknico, I did :-)
[14:20] <teknico> speaking of which, I have a nice little quiz: counting yuidoc and sphinx and README, do we have more or less than 1000 lines of docs? :-)
[14:20] <gary_poster> heh
[14:20] <gary_poster> I'll guess less, teknico
[14:21] <teknico> gary_poster, you'd guess wrong, they are slightly more than that :-)
[14:21] <gary_poster> lol, trick question!
[14:21] <teknico> yep :-)
[14:25] <gary_poster> teknico, approved.  I agreed with benji in two places and disagreed in one or two.
[14:26] <hazmat> gary_poster, i guess an lp group mailing list doesnt qualify as a public mailing list.
[14:26] <hazmat> still tied to group membership it seems
[14:26] <gary_poster> hazmat, if it is publicly viewable and anyone can join it does
[14:26] <gary_poster> I thought it was not
[14:26] <gary_poster> I also thought you wanted to get rid of the "peeps" name :-)
[14:27] <hazmat> gary_poster, there are two groups.. an old private one, and a new public one, the public one (~juju-gui) owns the current repo
[14:27] <gary_poster> oh cool, you just made a new list, I see
[14:27] <gary_poster> thank you
[14:27] <gary_poster> that's good for me
[14:27] <gary_poster> we just need to get everybody to join it and then we are good to go
[14:28]  * gary_poster joins it
[14:28] <hazmat> gary_poster, i'm not sure that's the right solution yet
[14:28] <hazmat> gary_poster, i'd like a mailing list which doesn't require commit access to join
[14:28] <gary_poster> hazmat, ah, excellent point
[14:29] <hazmat> i guess i need to talk to IS about setting up a mailing list for us on the non lp mailman infrastrucutre
[14:29]  * hazmat deactivates the new list
[14:29] <gary_poster> or we make a group in LP that is only for discussion
[14:29] <gary_poster> and we make ~juju-gui a member
[14:29] <gary_poster> and we're done
[14:30] <gary_poster> well, after setting up the mailing list :-P
[14:30] <hazmat> that's reasonable at the cost of requiring lp membership ;-) ... so something like ~juju-gui-users  would do it
[14:31] <gary_poster> right
[14:31] <teknico> gary_poster, I pushed a new revision of my branch, but I reckon you still saw the original one when reviewing it
[14:31] <gary_poster> teknico, yes
[14:31] <teknico> gary_poster, how do I let Rietveld know that there's a new revision available?
[14:32] <gary_poster> that's what appspot had when I started teknico .  you use lbox propose -cr again
[14:32] <teknico> gary_poster, oh, just like that, ok
[14:32] <gary_poster> whoa!  goodspud!
[14:32] <bac> hi everybody.
[14:32] <gary_poster> hi!
[14:32] <gary_poster> hi bac :-)
[14:43] <hazmat> goodspud!
[14:43] <hazmat> goodspud, you survived vegas or bust i take it
[14:43] <goodspud> hazmat, hey dude
[14:43] <goodspud> One night in Vegas was enough for me
[14:43] <goodspud> I'm now poor
[14:44] <goodspud> Hence having to work
[14:44] <goodspud> And hello everybody
[14:45] <gary_poster> :-)
[14:45] <gary_poster> hi
[15:01] <hazmat> usability review hangout -> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1e075106a1c967e3fe6c18d4e67718622cc38d11
[15:01] <Makyo> hazmat, thanks
[15:01] <gary_poster> jovan2 we are in the calendar hangout https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1e075106a1c967e3fe6c18d4e67718622cc38d11
[15:03] <jovan2> gary_poster: hi there is some confusion here, will be with you shortly
[15:03] <gary_poster> ack
[15:03] <hazmat> bcsaller, frankban ^
[15:04] <bcsaller> one sec
[15:15] <gary_poster> frankban, is your net connection jumping up and down like a rabbit? :-)
[15:15] <frankban> gary_poster: restarted the router, hope it will stop jumping :-)
[15:15] <gary_poster> :-) cool good luck
[15:32] <teknico> is anyone else having problems pulling trunk? I get "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host"
[15:33] <frankban> teknico: same error here
[15:37] <teknico> launchpad working again now
[16:21] <Makyo> bac, going to make coffee, but here's a paste of what's happening when I save (or `touch`) the less stylesheet: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1389240/ If I run it through lessc, though, I don't get any of those errors.
[16:21] <bac> Makyo: ok, can we chat later?  still on call and then lunch.
[16:22] <Makyo> bac, Of course.  Thanks for volunteering/being volunteered :)
[16:36] <benji> Why did I recieve a notice about a juju-gui mailing list that is (now) disactivated?
[16:37] <gary_poster> because the world is a mysterious place, filled with decisions that are sometimes undone :-)
[17:58] <teknico> benji, I got your latest reply about my branch via email, and I see it on the merge proposal on launchpad, but it does not show up on rietveld?!
[17:58] <teknico> benji, anyway, the reason you did not see my comments inline is that I just replied on the main page :-)
[17:58] <benji> teknico: I figured.
[17:59] <teknico> benji, and I always thought about the shim script as written in python, it didn't even occur to me to write in bash :-)
[17:59] <teknico> to write *it
[17:59] <benji> Python may well be the better way.
[17:59] <teknico> it always was and always will be ;-)
[18:00] <teknico> (at least when compared with shell scripts)
[18:03] <benji> :)
[18:03] <gary_poster> bac and benji did you see BjornT's proposal to make lp2kanban automatically make cards from bugs?
[18:03] <benji> gary_poster: I did.  I figured I would review it today.
[18:03] <bac> no
[18:03] <gary_poster> cool benji
[18:04] <gary_poster> bac https://code.launchpad.net/~bjornt/lp2kanban/bugs-to-cards/+merge/135909
[19:22] <bac> hi Makyo, sorry for the delay
[19:26] <Makyo> bac, No worries.
[19:27] <bac> Makyo: yes, i've seen these LESS errors too.  mainly upon saving the stylesheet when editing with emacs
[19:27] <bac> and bin/generateTemplates does not have the error
[19:27] <Makyo> bac, Ah!  Hmm.. wonder if it's catching vim's swap file or something
[19:28] <bac> Makyo: with emacs a file called #stylesheet.less# is created while editing and is deleted on save.  i thought it might be part of the problem
[19:29] <bac> Makyo: i find it highly annoying but since it didn't actualy impact the stylesheet generation i wasn't too upset about it
[19:29] <Makyo> bac, makes sense.  I'll play around with it.  It was doing that with touch, too, but I did still have the file open in vim in another terminal
[19:30] <bac> ok, i haven't experimented with touch
[19:52]  * bac finds the competing CharmCollectionViews highly confusing
[20:12] <gary_poster> bac, fwiw, my opinion about the CharmCollectionViews situation is at the top of app/views/charm.js
[20:12] <bac> gary_poster: i saw that later.
[20:13] <gary_poster> ok
[20:56] <gary_poster> benji, are you going to be able to review frankban's charm branch before your EoD?  If not, it would be fair to him to try and find someone else so he does not have to wait longer.  (I'm about to focus on my review)
[20:56] <gary_poster> benji___, I should say
[21:01] <benji> gary_poster: sure, I'll look at it now
[21:01] <gary_poster> cool thanks
[22:11] <gary_poster> Hey bcsaller, in your branch environment.js loses a whole bunch of code that doesn't show up anywhere else yet as far as far as I can tell.  Am I wrong?  If not, I expect that the missing code is supposed to go into the other topology modules eventually; but can we land this gradually before then?  I ran out of time today.  Could you ping me tomorrow as soon as you are ready to talk so we can talk through the branch
[22:11] <gary_poster>  tomorrow morning?
[22:11] <gary_poster> night all
[22:11] <Makyo> Night.
[22:12] <bcsaller> gary_poster: you're correct, it belongs in the modules, and yes, we can chat tomorrow


[01:24] <littlegirl> Does anyone in here do any work on the Kubuntu docs?
[01:30] <j1mc> littlegirl: i'm not sure. maybe Darkwing does, but i'm not sure.
[01:30] <littlegirl> j1mc: Yeah, he does, thanks, but he isn't on. I got around it by rewriting that section. (:
[01:30] <j1mc> ok : )
[01:41] <jbicha> j1mc: howdy, good to hear work's going well for you
[01:43] <j1mc> hey jbicha - thanks
[01:43] <j1mc> i will feel better once i have the offer in hand, but i think it's a formality at this point.
[01:46] <jbicha> it looks like we'll be down to the wire again for Ubuntu docs, I meant to blog more asking for contributors
[01:46] <j1mc> when is string freeze?
[01:46] <j1mc> i've been focusing more on gnome lately, but could pitch in some.
[01:46] <jbicha> lol, docs freeze is supposedly in 5 or 6 days which isn't enough time
[01:47] <jbicha> I'm going to ask for 1 more week, that should still give the translators plenty of time
[01:47] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[01:50] <j1mc> one more week makes sense
[01:51] <j1mc> bbiab - laundry is done.
[01:51] <jbicha> at least there was more time after UI Freeze than last cycle, & the UIFE's so far haven't really messed with Docs stuff as much
[01:52] <jbicha> getting GNOME Shell 3.4 into Ubuntu took a lot of my effort the past two weeks, that was a headache
[01:53] <jbicha> j1mc: you ever use meld? it's a lifesaver for merging the GNOME user guide into Ubuntu's fork
[01:54] <j1mc> jbicha: no, i haven't used that. what is it?
[01:54] <littlegirl> I was told string freeze is March 22.
[01:55] <jbicha> littlegirl: that's correct
[01:56] <jbicha> j1mc: http://meldmerge.org/
[01:57] <jbicha> I couldn't imagine doing the merge without something like that
[01:58]  * j1mc nods
[01:59] <j1mc> it pulls in sweet, sweet dependencies, too.  "libbonobo2, libgnomeui"  :)
[01:59] <j1mc> old skool
[02:02] <littlegirl> I'm doing my first bzr push ever to the Launchpad server and this is what it says to me:
[02:02] <littlegirl> he authenticity of host 'bazaar.launchpad.net (<IP_ADDRESS>)' can't be established.
[02:02] <littlegirl> RSA key fingerprint is 9d:38:3a:63:b1:d5:6f:c4:44:67:53:49:2e:ee:fc:89.
[02:02] <littlegirl> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
[02:02] <jbicha> haha, oh does it?
[02:03] <littlegirl> Is there something I should have done in bzr first to establish the authenticity of the RSA key fingerprint?
[02:03] <jbicha> littlegirl: I just hit yes, ssh does that the first time you connect
[02:03] <j1mc> littlegirl: if it's your first push, i would say it's ok to accept it.
[02:04] <j1mc> you didn't need to do anything beforehand
[02:04] <jbicha> j1mc: meld recommends python-gnome2 which pulls in the old stuff
[02:04] <littlegirl> Thanks. I may have waited too long. Trying it again.
[02:04] <jbicha> littlegirl: yeah it gives a far more scary message if the key ever changes
[02:04] <littlegirl> Hmmm, now it says this:
[02:04] <littlegirl> Permission denied (publickey).
[02:04] <littlegirl> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[02:05] <littlegirl> This is the command I've been using: bzr push lp:~littlergirl/kubuntu-docs/basics
[02:05] <j1mc> littlegirl: did you set up your ssh key on launchpad?
[02:05] <littlegirl> By the way, I totally agree about Meld. That program rules. (:
[02:06] <littlegirl> j1mc: Yep, I did that last night. Is there somewhere I need to go to tell bzr about it?
[02:07] <littlegirl> I don't know if you're able to view this page since it's within my account, but the key shows up here: https://launchpad.net/~littlergirl/+editsshkeys
[02:07] <j1mc> littlegirl: when you do  "ls -l ~/.ssh/" what do you get?
[02:07] <j1mc> it might be ssh permissions on your local computer
[02:08] <littlegirl> -rw-r--r-- 1 little little  540 2012-03-16 22:03 known_hosts
[02:08] <littlegirl> -rw-r--r-- 1 little little  646 2012-03-16 00:48 logofcreationofsshkey.txt
[02:08] <littlegirl> -rw------- 1 little little 1743 2012-03-16 00:37 MySSHKey
[02:08] <littlegirl> -rw-r--r-- 1 little little  399 2012-03-16 00:37 MySSHKey.pub
[02:09] <littlegirl> The logofcreationofsshkey.txt file is something I made by copying everything in Bash so that I'd have a record of how it went.
[02:09] <j1mc> can you try "chmod 644 MySSHKey.pub" and then re-enter the "ls -l" command?
[02:09] <j1mc> sorry, "chmod 644 ~/.ssh/MySSHKey.pub"
[02:10] <jbicha> I don't see her SSH key at https://launchpad.net/~littlergirl mine is listed on https://launchpad.net/~jbicha
[02:11] <j1mc> sorry again. try this: "chmod 600 ~/.ssh/MySSHKey.pub"
[02:11] <j1mc> jbicha: agreed
[02:13] <littlegirl> -rw------- 1 little little  399 2012-03-16 22:10 MySSHKey.pub
[02:14] <littlegirl> I generated it with kgpg. Should I try doing it another way?
[02:15] <littlegirl> Whoops, never mind - that was my pgp key. Too many keys in too short of a time. (:
[02:16] <j1mc> littlegirl: ok - i think your key permissions are set correctly now. but we still don't see your key up on launchpad.net
[02:16] <j1mc> if you look at https://launchpad.net/~jwcampbell  ...  you'll see my SSH keys
[02:17] <littlegirl> j1mc: Can I delete it and put it in again?
[02:17] <j1mc> same for if you go to https://launchpad.net/~jbicha
[02:17] <littlegirl> j1mc: Yeah, I see yours. Mine just has a little pencil for editing, but when I click edit, it's there.
[02:17] <j1mc> you don't need to delete the keys and put them up again...
[02:18] <littlegirl> Weehaw, now you should see it. (:
[02:18] <littlegirl> I deleted it from Launchpad and pasted it in again and it took it. (:
[02:18] <j1mc> littlegirl: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/CreatingAnSSHKeyPair
[02:19] <j1mc> look at "registering the key with launchpad"
[02:19] <j1mc> littlegirl: ok - i see your key on launchpad now
[02:19] <j1mc> you can try your upload again
[02:19] <j1mc> "SSH keys: little@MYCOMPUTER"
[02:20] <littlegirl> Trying the upload again gives me this: Permission denied (publickey).
[02:21] <kjs> morning
[02:22] <littlegirl> Morning. (:
[02:22] <j1mc> littlegirl: try "chmod 600 ~/.ssh"
[02:23] <littlegirl> j1mc: Hmmm, it still won't let me upload.
[02:23] <littlegirl> It still says Permission denied (publickey). even after that command.
[02:23] <j1mc> ok - maybe give it a few minutes - you just uploaded that key
[02:24] <littlegirl> j1mc: Okay, will do. I feel bad, because I promised I'd get going on the documentation and I've got one done and am ready to do more. (:
[02:25] <j1mc> littlegirl: also... can you move those "instructions" out of your .ssh folder?
[02:25] <jbicha> littlegirl: don't feel bad, the first contribution takes a lot of effort
[02:25] <j1mc> i doubt that owuld have an affect, but it can't hurt to not have that file in there.
[02:26] <j1mc> jbicha: do you think launchpad might need a few minutes to fully register her key, or is there something else you can think of.
[02:26] <littlegirl> LOL, I'm not allowed into the folder now. It says permission denied. How do I undo that last chmod 600 command?
[02:27] <j1mc> littlegirl: sorry, try "chmod 644 ~/.ssh"
[02:27] <jbicha> yeah the ssh key is there which is a good sign
[02:28] <littlegirl> It still says access denied. I even closed Dolphin and opened it again.
[02:28] <j1mc> ... see, i was writing up docs for seahorse, but didn't get them finished. this is what i get.
[02:28] <j1mc> :(
[02:28] <jbicha> littlegirl: what's your computer named? ie what comes after the @ sign in your terminal prompt?
[02:28] <littlegirl> MYCOMPUTER
[02:29] <jbicha> ok, just checking
[02:29] <littlegirl> cd ~/.ssh
[02:29] <littlegirl> bash: cd: /home/little/.ssh: Permission denied
[02:29] <littlegirl> This has to be a government conspiracy. (: (: (:
[02:29] <j1mc> littlegirl: sorry, try "chmod 700 ~/.ssh"
[02:30] <littlegirl> j1mc: That worked. Okay, the log file I had made is gone. Trying the upload again...
[02:31] <littlegirl> Nope, it's still giving me permission denied because of the public key.
[02:32] <j1mc> can you enter the "ls -l ~/.ssh/" command again?
[02:33] <jbicha> oh the government doesn't want you contributing to Kubuntu docs?
[02:33] <littlegirl> jbicha: -rw------- 1 little little  399 2012-03-16 22:10 MySSHKey.pub
[02:34] <littlegirl> jbicha: Anything is possible. (:
[02:34] <j1mc> what about the other files?
[02:34] <littlegirl> j1mc:
[02:34] <littlegirl> -rw-r--r-- 1 little little  540 2012-03-16 22:03 known_hosts
[02:34] <littlegirl> -rw------- 1 little little 1743 2012-03-16 00:37 MySSHKey
[02:36] <jbicha> uh oh, what did you do with your MySSHKey.pub ?
[02:36] <j1mc> jbicha: shouldn't there be something like "id_rsa.pub" or something?
[02:37] <j1mc> not MySSHKey.pub?  :/  i'm not sure
[02:37] <j1mc> not sure if it matters
[02:38] <jbicha> this is mine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/887272/
[02:38] <littlegirl> j1mc: Yeah, I'm reading the instructions page from the link above and I think, since I apparently didn't use a common name for the file, it's considered a custom file name, and it suggests I edit the config file and tell it which file to use for Launchpad.
[02:38] <j1mc> i would probably use a common file name
[02:39] <jbicha> id_rsa is default
[02:39] <littlegirl> Then my permissions on my pub file are definitely wrong because groups and others can't read the file.
[02:39] <littlegirl> Can I rename the file manually or will SSH get mad if I tamper with it?
[02:40] <j1mc> i would try changing the files to "id_rsa" and "id_rsa.pub"
[02:40] <j1mc> i think manually should be ok
[02:40] <littlegirl> j1mc: Okay, trying that...
[02:40] <j1mc> littlegirl: the permissions on keys are supposed to be more restrictive.
[02:40] <jbicha> littlegirl: I don't think you necessarily have to let groups & others read your public keys, that's just the default
[02:40] <j1mc> if they are set less restrictively, the server will reject them.
[02:41] <littlegirl> That worked! Thanks so much!!!!
[02:42] <littlegirl> Apparently it cared what the key names were. (:
[02:42] <j1mc> woo!  the government ban on your kubuntu contributions has been rescinded!
[02:42] <j1mc> sweet freedom. :)
[02:42] <littlegirl> Weehaw! And you all were there for my very first push. (:
[02:42] <j1mc> congrats
[02:43] <littlegirl> j1mc: Thanks! I might still need help. I have a few more steps to follow before I'm done with it officially. (:
[02:43] <j1mc> ok
[02:47] <littlegirl> Oh, that is so cool. It looks like I'm good to go, and can have some fun with documentation. (:
[02:48] <littlegirl> Thank you so much to all of you - I couldn't have done it without your help. (:
[02:48]  * littlegirl hugs everyone
[04:12] <vibhav> (12:25:08 PM) sabdfl: if Linux is just another way to run Windows apps, we can't win
[21:17] <Steveiwonder> Hey All, I'm new to ubuntu im a windows bum  but want to change, can anyone recommend a good place to start? or should i just dive in ?
[22:17] <bkerensa> Steveiwonder: should just dive in :D


[04:00] <Daekdroom> Why is my VM prompting me to install a linux-image-extra-3.5.(something) package?
[04:06] <genii-around> Maybe it sees that some of it's "hardware" needs a driver that's in that package
[10:40] <qdb> hello. i have downloaded quantal cd and have written it on usb flash drive with unetbootin. it do not load, shows "(initramfs)" promt. is it normal?
[11:12] <qdb> hello. i have downloaded quantal cd and have written it on usb flash drive with unetbootin. it do not load, shows "(initramfs)" promt. is it normal?
[11:20] <ikonia> no
[11:27] <qdb> ikonia, how can i fix that ? can reinstalling after reformatting help? as said in http://forums.bodhilinux.com/index.php?/topic/1742-unetbootin-doesnt-work/
[11:29] <ikonia> no idea
[11:32] <penguin42> hmm
[11:33] <qdb> same problem described here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1969716
[11:33] <penguin42> kubuntu+1 is reliably not restoring terminal positions correctly
[11:42] <penguin42> hmm - it seems to have lost my xserver-xorg-video-radeon as well
[11:46] <penguin42> ah, I'm hitting bug 1016908
[12:47] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:50] <penguin42> Hey BK
[12:53] <BluesKaj> hi  p42
[12:53] <BluesKaj> :)
[23:56] <FernandoMiguel> Errors were encountered while processing:
[23:56] <FernandoMiguel>  /var/cache/apt/archives/manpages_3.40-0.1ubuntu1_all.deb
[23:56] <FernandoMiguel> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[23:56] <FernandoMiguel> again?'?


[15:09] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: It looks like we need a doc page on CPU governors and such based on the conversation krytarik had with miiauu last night (22:30ish)
[15:10] <OvenWerks> "Boost" is on by default
[15:10] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I just looked at that. There should be something in the Ubuntu Studio Controls documentation.
[15:10] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-controls
[15:11] <OvenWerks> But... Boost is bad for lowlatency (audio or otherwise)
[15:11] <Eickmeyer> Right.
[15:11] <Eickmeyer> In the doc: In the System Tweaks tab, you will see the options for changing your CPU Governor and turning Intel Boost on and off. If you are doing low latency audio work, the CPU Governor should be set to Performance and the Intel Boost should be off. Otherwise, adjust as desired
[15:12] <Eickmeyer> So, it's there... *shrug*
[15:13] <OvenWerks> I have not played with resetting speed limits which would allow one to set the performance speed higher than rated. I have not had the need.
[15:13] <OvenWerks> It is possible though
[15:14] <OvenWerks> With boost on my system will run .2Ghz faster on all cores when cpu is at 100%
[15:15] <Eickmeyer> I just worry that people will overclock their systems and potentially cause damage.
[15:15] <OvenWerks> it will not over heat even when running that way for 15minutes or more
[15:15] <OvenWerks> That is why I don't provide tools :)
[15:16] <Eickmeyer> And that's why we shouldn't provide the tools. If they want to do it, they can, but I fear we'll get blamed for killing their cat if we provide the means.
[15:16] <OvenWerks> and .2Ghz (3.4 instaed of 3.2) is less than 1% improvement anyway
[15:17] <Eickmeyer> Well, more CPU Power does not necessarily mean less latency.
[15:17] <Eickmeyer> There are far more factors than that.
[15:17] <OvenWerks> In fact building Ardour does not take a noticeable different time with boost or without.
[15:18] <OvenWerks> USB has become the big limiter these days
[15:18] <OvenWerks> 2ms for stability.
[15:19] <OvenWerks> vs. .7 for a pci device
[15:19] <Eickmeyer> Yes, though, it depends on the USB device as well. The ones that are manufactured for pro audio are far better on latency than your run-of-the-mill USB microphone.
[15:20] <OvenWerks> Ya, I don't know if you saw the guy I started talking with who had the samson usb mic...
[15:20] <OvenWerks> I didn't get real time with him and so I don't know where that went
[15:21] <OvenWerks> I suspect the USB mic shows up as texusinstruments or something like that and so is there but not the name he expected.
[15:21] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I saw that. I've had some luck with USB microphones (I have a CAD U37 USB Condenser mic that performed okay), but Samson, as a brand, is one that I avoid.
[15:22] <Eickmeyer> Mine showed up as a very generic brand as well.
[15:22] <OvenWerks> The documentation does not use drivers for mac or windows which almost makes me think USB1.1 but it says it can do 96k... which is USB2.0
[15:23] <OvenWerks> Either way it should just show up.
[15:23] <Eickmeyer> My USB mic doesn't have drivers for mac or windows either, but it's definitely USB 2.0, and it just shows up.
[15:24] <OvenWerks> So windows has finally added USB2.0 then. They didn't for a long time.
[15:25] <Eickmeyer> Oh, I used USB 2.0 on Windows for quite some time. Probably since Windows 7. Windows 10, though, definitely has it.
[15:25] <Eickmeyer> My Behringer interface technically doesn't need drivers, but it does have ASIO drivers, probably to deal with latency.
[15:26]  * Eickmeyer doesn't dabble in Windows audio too much.
[15:26] <OvenWerks> So all of the USB devices come with drivers just to be complete with older windows?
[15:26] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yep, usually for Windows XP.
[15:27] <Eickmeyer> Which is long EOL, but manufacturers haven't updated their process, and it's probably no skin off of their back to keep legacy drivers included.
[15:27] <OvenWerks> Lots of studios use XP because they paid for their SW for it and it works.
[15:28] <Eickmeyer> Then that might be one reason.
[15:28] <OvenWerks> Some studios have many $k invested in plugins and SW
[15:28] <OvenWerks> That is the reason Ardour suports XP builds too.
[15:29] <Eickmeyer> I know a guy that got himself addicted to Waves plugins. Poor guy. Vendor lock-in is real.
[15:29] <OvenWerks> Even though it is a pain because XP is 32bit c++99 and everything else is 64bit c++11
[15:31] <OvenWerks> In fact kxstudio ISO has the same problem as it is based on 12.04 or 14.04 (can't remember which)
[15:32] <Eickmeyer> 14.04, last I checked.
[15:32] <Eickmeyer> He was working on an 18.04 version, but he's not concentrating as much on that as he is Carla.
[15:33] <OvenWerks> He was aiming for 18.04... I don't know if he is looking to do 20.04 or not.
[15:33] <OvenWerks> 18.04 would be better than 14.04 for sure
[15:34] <OvenWerks> just for graphic card support
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> Right.
[15:39] <OvenWerks> I actually think that Falktx would be happy not to make a new ISO if Studio came with most of his SW
[15:40] <OvenWerks> He would be even more happy if we used KDE ;) but having good kde support would probably work ok too.
[15:41] <OvenWerks> The one thing I wuld like to see, is an ISO that would work as an offline repo having everything isnstaller needs to work. (deps too)
[15:42] <OvenWerks> So a person could DL the kubuntu iso (or other flavour) and the installer ISO and do a complete off line install.
[15:43] <OvenWerks> Institusions like schools like to work that way.
[15:56] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Wouldn't a persistent ISO do that job?
[15:56] <Eickmeyer> Rather, a persistent USB?
[15:57] <OvenWerks> I don't know, to be honest... But something that is easy to DL even if it is a script to DL what is needed.
[16:00] <OvenWerks> The advantage of an actual ISO or a file system is that it can be compresssed.
[16:01] <OvenWerks> This doesn't help the main part of packages which are already compressed, but there are a lot of parts that are not too.
[16:01] <OvenWerks> Also, it is better to DL one file than many as the transfer startup can be a significant portion of the DL time.
[16:03] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  or are you saying that a ubuntu iso and ubuntustudio ISO would do the job?
[16:04] <Eickmeyer> Not exactly. I'm saying that one can configure any flavor to install the ISO to a USB drive with said drive containing a persistence partition for anything they add.
[16:06] <OvenWerks> I am getting odd text messages from my son. They went to the hospital last night... then were told to go for a walk... just got a message saying "out"???
[16:06] <Eickmeyer> My guess is out of the hospital, which seems like a good sign.
[16:07] <OvenWerks> I would have expected a "it's a boy/girl" kind of message actually...
[16:07] <OvenWerks> out kind of means not yet I think.
[16:07] <Eickmeyer> Oh! I didn't know they were expecting!
[16:08] <OvenWerks> Ya, my second grandchild
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> Nice! So, any day now?
[16:09] <OvenWerks> "out means she's out" "11:58"
[16:09] <OvenWerks> I guess it is another girl
[16:10] <Eickmeyer> Nice! Congratulations!
[16:11] <OvenWerks> Than you
[16:11] <OvenWerks> Makes up for the past two months
[16:11] <OvenWerks> (and then some)
[16:11] <Eickmeyer> Absolutely. :)
[16:12] <Eickmeyer> So, I imagine you're probably going to be heading East sometime soon to visit.
[16:13] <OvenWerks> Probably not, The banki account just doesn't have the room
[16:14] <Eickmeyer> I see. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to fly to Texas for my sis-in-law's wedding. My FIL is paying for my wife & son, who are in the wedding, but I have to pay my own way.
[16:15] <OvenWerks> My family would be cranky about just me going...
[16:16] <OvenWerks> But maybe by August we can make it.
[16:16] <Eickmeyer> That's when we're heading to Texas.
[16:16] <OvenWerks> (one seat on four different planes with on sale seats)
[16:17] <Eickmeyer> As a former airline employee, right now would be the time to buy since it's just barely far enough in advance to get the good deals.
[16:17] <Eickmeyer> (I'm a former airline employee).
[16:17] <OvenWerks> I have gotten the best deals when I need to fly tomorrow
[16:17] <OvenWerks> worst flights and worst seats though
[16:18] <OvenWerks> But still better than regular with compasionate discount
[16:20] <OvenWerks> In our case it would have to be last minute anyway. That is when we would know we have the ability to pay.
[16:21] <Eickmeyer> Yeah.