[00:34] <ScottK> jussi: Thanks.
[04:34] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: ping
[04:35] <nixternal> k, i will try you tomorrow...chilling for the rest of the night then heading to bed...long weekend of bicycle racing...totally exhausted and weirdly sunburned
[05:01] <maco> nixternal: not as weird as falling asleep sunbathing with your hand on your tummy, i hope?
[06:41] <jussi> maco: LOL
[10:57] <jussi> Well done to everyone on a great release - upgrade went almost perfect, just a small pioneers bug (not kubuntu's fault) and needed to remove the plasma config files. all good :)
[11:42] <apachelogger> \o/ cold coffee
[11:42]  * apachelogger finds it scary that he can write C that looks more complex than assembly ^^
[11:48] <Tm_T> assembly is simple
[12:31]  * JontheEchidna joins the sunburned club
[13:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: see, that is why I do not like the sun ;)
[13:42]  * jussi puts the pasty white apachelogger in the basement to work :D
[14:03] <txwikinger> well.. it is really nice that KDE implemented some of my feature-requests I made :)
[14:03]  * txwikinger is just a little disturbed that the lucid upgrade deleted his autofs mount configuration without even telling
[14:39] <ofirk> amichair: you here?
[14:39] <amichair> ofirk: indeed I am!
[14:39] <ofirk> amichair: how are you?
[14:40] <amichair> ofirk: other than a bit of arm strain, all is well :-)
[14:40] <amichair> (arm the limb, not the processor ;-) )
[14:40] <ofirk> amichair: ok, than I can I ask you a question about ubiquity?
[14:40] <amichair> ofirk: sure
[14:41] <amichair> ofirk: (btw there's #ubuntu-installer where the expert are)
[14:42] <ofirk> amichair: I found some RTL bugs
[14:42] <ofirk> amichair: in the qt frontend...
[14:42] <ofirk> amichair: for example, the arrows are inversed...
[14:43] <ofirk> amichair: so, I though, since it is written in Python, and I only afraid from C++, why not try fixing this bug?
[14:44] <amichair> ofirk: right on!
[14:44] <ofirk> amichair: I looked at the code and found that in order to display the right arrow you need to add QApplication::isRightToLeft()
[14:44] <ofirk> amichair: look at this:
[14:44] <ofirk> if ( QApplication::isRightToLeft() ) {
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->yearForward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-left-double" ) ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->yearBackward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-right-double" ) ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->monthForward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-left" ) ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->monthBackward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-right" ) ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> +        d->yearForward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-next-rtl" ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> +        d->yearBackward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-previous-rtl" ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> +        d->monthForward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-next-rtl" ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> +        d->monthBackward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-previous-rtl" ) );
[14:44] <ofirk>      } else {
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->yearForward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-right-double" ) ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->yearBackward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-left-double" ) ) );
[14:44] <ofirk> -        d->monthForward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-right" ) ) );
[14:45] <amichair> ofirk: pastebin?
[14:45] <ofirk> -        d->monthBackward->setIcon( KIcon( QLatin1String( "arrow-left" ) ) );
[14:45] <ofirk> +        d->yearForward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-next" ) );
[14:45] <ofirk> +        d->yearBackward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-previous" ) );
[14:45] <ofirk> +        d->monthForward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-next" ) );
[14:45] <ofirk> +        d->monthBackward->setIcon( KIcon( "go-previous" ) );
[14:45] <ofirk>      }
[14:45]  * ofirk forgot about pastebin
[14:45] <ofirk> oops
[14:45] <amichair> !pastebin
[14:45] <amichair> ofirk: np :-)
[14:46] <amichair> I see u opened bug #563687
[14:46] <ofirk> amichair: yeah, before the release
[14:46] <ofirk> amichair: never thought that I would fix it :)
[14:47] <ofirk> amichair: I don't know if there are any rules of how to fix things and how to submit them
[14:48] <ofirk> amichair: can you be my mentor for this bug fix?
[14:49] <ofirk> amichair: the bug is easy to fix, but I don't know how to submit the fix, to where, how???
[14:49] <amichair> ofirk: u can either submit a patch to the bug report, or (what I do) work on my own branch and then find someone to review+commit it (JontheEchidna is most helpful with such things :-) )
[14:49] <amichair> ofirk: have u worked with bzr?
[14:50] <ofirk> amichair: yes
[14:50] <ofirk> amichair: so I need to keep only the fixed files on my branch?
[14:51] <amichair> u can "bzr branch" off of trunk, this will give u a full local working copy. then u work normally - fix things, make commits, and push it (to ur own lp branch location) - then just find a commiter to nudge
[14:53] <amichair> it's handy to use dch before committing to update the changelog with the proper format, and u can specify the lp bug it closes, e.g. "Fix arrows RTL bug in KDE frontend (LP: #563687)"
[14:54] <amichair> and finally use debcommit, which knowns how to add the right parameters to bzr commit to make the link from the changelog to the actual bug
[14:55] <ofirk> amichair: all of this is from the CLI, right?
[14:55] <amichair> yep
[14:56] <amichair> specifically working with ubiquity can be tricky because u need a VM to test all the bootup/installation stuff, but for the buttons u can probably do without
[14:57] <ofirk> amichair: I am actually working with Bazzar Explorer
[14:57] <amichair> oh, don't know it...
[14:57] <ofirk> amichair: I am a nOOb... :)
[14:57] <amichair> ofirk: me too :-)
[14:57] <ofirk> it is a GUI for bzr
[14:58] <ofirk> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/index.html
[14:58] <amichair> for exploring and stuff it can be useful, but I'd stick to the deb tools for the actual commit because of all the extra integration it does (unless bzr explorer does it too)
[14:58] <ofirk> it has a good integration with lp
[14:59] <amichair> then feel free to use it :-)
[14:59] <ofirk> I will try :)
[15:00] <ofirk> thanks amichair for your help!
[15:00] <amichair> for experimenting with the bug closing/changelog stuff, remember u can always uncommit the last commit if it didn't do what u want :-)
[15:00] <ofirk> even after a long time?
[15:01] <ofirk> you wrote always so I guess: yes!
[15:01] <amichair> as long as it's the last one. cherrypicking bad commits down the log is more of a problem (not sure how to, actually)
[15:03] <amichair> can bzr exlorer show u the console or command output, so u can see exactly what it's doing? that can be helpful too
[15:04] <ofirk> yes, it displays everything it does
[15:04] <amichair> ok, so u can make sure it adds the bug closing parameters etc. if it has a deb changelog editor, that's really neat.
[15:05] <txwikinger> where did ssh-askpass-kde gp?
[15:05] <txwikinger> go?
[15:08] <ofirk> amichair: you said that a VM is needed in order to test ubiquity
[15:08] <ofirk> amichair: how exactly you test it?
[15:09] <amichair> ofirk: I also suggested that for just testing the gui u can probably do without and keep it simple :-)
[15:09] <amichair> I like virtualbox personally
[15:09] <ofirk> amichair: yeah, I know
[15:09] <ofirk> amichair:  but just for curiosity
[15:09] <amichair> I make a snapshot right after everything is setup
[15:10] <amichair> then copy the relevant ubiquity files over using share, and run it
[15:11] <amichair> although for little fixes and experiments u can just edit on the guest VM directly and when u get it right copy the changes back to the host
[15:12] <ofirk> so you install kubuntu, then ubiquity, and make a snapshot from it
[15:12] <ofirk> then everytime you need to test a change, you just replace the relevant file
[15:12] <amichair> u can also make a snapshot straight from the live session without installing
[15:13] <ofirk> nice, I like this method
[15:13] <amichair> u can prepare whatever u need (tools, vim, script, even guest addins etc) and then take the snapshot so next time it's all set to go
[15:14] <ofirk> virtualbox is awesome!
[15:14] <ofirk> it is fast and simple
[15:14] <amichair> yeah, I really like it ever since I first tried it in the windows days
[15:15] <ofirk> have you ever used vmware?
[15:15] <amichair> I used to run kubuntu under windows, but nowadays it's the other way around. or more often, kubuntu in kubuntu :-)
[15:16] <amichair> not recently, maybe gave vmware a shot a few years back, but ever since virtualbox I haven't been missing anything
[15:16] <ofirk> you are right :)
[15:17] <txwikinger> hmm the whole ssh-agent stuff does not work anymore at all
[15:17] <ofirk> I don't like vmware because it is bloated
[15:18] <ofirk> and IMHO also slower than virtualbox
[15:19] <amichair> I hope Oracle have good plans for it.  That's crazy!
[16:04] <JontheEchidna> Nobody was approached at all about Kubuntu sessions? :/
[16:05] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: yeah, I put in for 2 sessions
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> wtf
[16:06] <nixternal> one for today to be about getting involved in Kubuntu, and we said DarkwingDuck_ would be best, since he is our newest member and got to work around here with the quickness
[16:06] <nixternal> then the 2nd was going to be a Q&A with me and Riddell like we always do
[16:06] <amichair> ofirk: shtylman worked on ubiquity gui if u have questions. (Whatever happened to that pastebin?)
[16:07] <ofirk> amichair: ok, thanks
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> http://simplest-image-hosting.net/i0-aqqw2tjfdjnk3vvw2ezimryzv2armqwb-jpeg.jpeg
[16:09] <amichair> ofirk: Of course I'd be happy to help too, but I don't know as much :-)
[16:10] <amichair> JontheEchidna: is that you?
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> No, that's The Master from Doctor Who
[16:11] <amichair> lol
[16:11] <amichair> never got around to that yet...
[16:12] <amichair> where is a good place to start? How many seasons in the current run?
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> five
[16:14] <amichair> is it ok to start there without knowing anything on the previous history?
[16:14] <JontheEchidna> starting with the start of the new run should be fine
[16:14] <JontheEchidna> e.g. you don't have to watch the 30 years of classic who to get things in the new series
[16:15] <amichair> phew! :-)
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> (I've only ever watched the first season of the classic series, tbh)
[16:20] <amichair> JontheEchidna: Great, I'll give it a go sometime, see what all the fuss is about : -)
[16:23] <nixternal> oh, this sun burn shit is killing me, and i have to ride today
[16:26] <nixternal> anyone up for doing a kubuntu session anytime this week at either 14:00 or 21:00 UTC?
[16:28] <maco> JontheEchidna: doctor who is scary!
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> after the last two week's episodes, I'll agree
[16:29] <maco> JontheEchidna: oh oh sarah jane too! it took me like 5 hours of *watch 2 minutes* *get freaked out* *help people in #ubuntu* to get through the Eternity Trap
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> I've not gotten the chance to watch any of the spinoffs yet, been too busy with other things
[16:30] <maco> sarah jane's a kid's show. its on CBBC
[16:31] <apachelogger> amichair, JontheEchidna: the fact that it is not necessary does not mean you shouldnt do it :P
[16:31] <apachelogger> you are missing out if you dont IMHO
[16:32] <nixternal> anyone up for doing a kubuntu session anytime this week at either 14:00 or 21:00 UTC?
[16:32] <nixternal> anyone up for doing a kubuntu session anytime this week at either 14:00 or 21:00 UTC?
[16:32] <nixternal> anyone up for doing a kubuntu session anytime this week at either 14:00 or 21:00 UTC?
[16:32] <nixternal> there, i know someone saw it this time
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> lol
[16:32] <nixternal> i can't do that this week, so i am out
[16:32] <Tm_T> not me
[16:32] <apachelogger> saw what?
[16:32] <Tm_T> apachelogger: Igor
[16:32] <apachelogger> Saw 6 \o/
[16:32] <nixternal> you need your eyes checked
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> I have finals this week...
[16:33] <apachelogger> .comm	crypt_runs,4,4 :P
[16:33] <apachelogger> take that
[16:33] <nixternal> 14:00 == 09:00 here, and I am sleeping...you aren't waking me up early to volunteer for something :p
[16:33] <nixternal> 21:00 == 16:00 here, and that is bike riding time
[16:33]  * apachelogger wants everyone to note how he made an encrypt() function do crypt runs ^^
[16:33] <apachelogger> ive got them all ... spoky ghosts and undead bodies
[16:34] <apachelogger> reminds me on medievil for the playstation
[16:35] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6kVxueYC7o
[17:26] <delight> did anybody notice that in lucid usermanagement in systemsettings is not working 100% correctly ? if you add a user and tell it the user should be able to administer the system its not adding the group admin its adding the group adm .. which is not in default sudoers file ... result no admin rights for the new user
[17:28] <delight> sebas: btw ... remember that problem where my network was not starting ... this just happened on boxes where the ubuntu-desktop was installed in parallel (bad idea as it shows) ... i was able to reactivate it by loging into gnome. that networkmanager had a switch to activate the network.
[18:01] <BentJ> i have upgrade my kubuntu from hardy to lucid, afterwards the sound has gone (tested by using Amarok). A workaround to bring the sound back, is to stop Amarok, and then to delete ~/.pulse/*runtime .. The sound is back until next reboot ... But what is the root cause?
[18:14] <ScottK> Sounds like you have pulseaudio installed and that's not the default for Kubuntu (although it's working ~fine here).  I'd try removing that.
[18:15] <BentJ> ok, I'll try that
[18:15] <BentJ> Thanks ;)
[18:16] <Riddell> evening
[18:17] <jjesse> evening Riddell
[18:32] <Mamarok> is there a reason to set the #kubuntu-netbook channel for invite only?
[18:34] <Mamarok> anyone?
[18:35] <ScottK> Mamarok: It's supposed to be forwarding to #kubuntu.
[18:35] <ScottK> I'm trying to get rid of it.
[18:35]  * ScottK looks at jussi.
[18:35] <Mamarok> ScottK: ah, thanks :)
[18:35] <jussi> Mamarok: because you are already in #kubuntu
[18:36] <Mamarok> well, you must have changed that very recently, this morning I was still able to join
[18:36] <jussi> ScottK: btw, did you get a chance to do those gobby backports?
[18:36] <ScottK> jussi: I have not.
[18:36] <jussi> Mamarok: still able to join or still joined?
[18:37] <jussi> ScottK: perhaps you want to: /msg chanserv clear #kubuntu-netbook users reason goes here
[18:37] <Mamarok> well, still joined
[18:37] <jussi> which will clear everyone out of there
[18:37] <jussi> Mamarok: yeah, we didnt boot everyone... yet
[18:38]  * ScottK treis.
[18:40] <ScottK> jussi: Thanks.  Works.
[18:40] <jussi> :)
[18:40] <ScottK> jussi: How do we get rid of the ChanServ?
[18:40] <maco> ScottK: turn off guard on teh channel?
[18:40] <jussi> ScottK: just leave it for now
[18:41] <ScottK> jussi: OK.
[18:41] <ScottK> So I guess I just leave and call it done then.
[18:41] <jussi> we will drop the channel in a week or 2, when people have gotten used to it not being there.
[18:41] <ScottK> OK.
[18:42] <tsimpson> on a side-note, #kubuntu-testers could probably do with closing too
[18:43] <BentJ> ScottK: Thanks it worked ;)
[18:44] <ScottK> OK.  Great.
[18:49] <ScottK> jussi: I removed it from the ChannelList wiki page too.
[18:49] <jussi> ScottK: excellent
[18:58] <rgreening_> hey all
[19:03] <neversfelde> hi rgreening
[19:03] <rgreening> neversfelde: I am fixing the workspace build now. forgot to remove one of the patches from the series file.
[19:03] <rgreening> doh
[19:03] <rgreening> :)
[19:03] <neversfelde> rgreening: I did that and testbuild a few minutes ago
[19:04] <neversfelde> ftbfs
[19:04] <rgreening> neversfelde: let me deal with it
[19:04] <neversfelde> ok
[19:04] <rgreening> any other packages need uploading?
[19:05] <neversfelde> we are far away from being complete
[19:05] <neversfelde> I'll start with a minor package now
[19:06] <rgreening> neversfelde: ok. I'll get workspace done asap. Im building now.
[19:06] <neversfelde> great
[19:08] <rgreening> neversfelde: anyone else helping build? I know some folks were/are away...
[19:09] <apparle> apachelogger: ping
[19:09] <ScottK> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/screenshots/Screenshots%20Funstuff/MSOffice.jpg
[19:09] <neversfelde> rgreening: there ware no progress over the weekend, so everyone seems to be on holiday
[19:10] <rgreening> heh. ya. I was in same boat. thought Id have some cycles... but never did. back at it now..
[19:10] <neversfelde> same for me :)
[19:10] <rgreening> ScottK: that is farked
[19:10] <rgreening> lol
[19:12] <apparle> ScottK: what's that...
[19:12] <ScottK> MS Office.
[19:14] <jjesse> wow that's an awesome pic of ms office
[19:15] <neversfelde> I had a job interview lately, they didn't want to employ me, because I do not have enough experience with MS Office, now I know why :)
[19:15] <apparle> :D
[19:16] <txwikinger> ScottK: Do you know by chance how to get ssh-agent with kde to work?
[19:16] <ScottK> No.  I don't use it.
[19:28] <rgreening> neversfelde: when the build failed for you, how far along was the fail?
[19:31] <neversfelde> rgreening: I can upload the build log, if you want?
[19:31] <rgreening> na. just curious. Im at 15% now...
[19:32] <neversfelde> rgreening: at the end, a cp failed
[19:32] <rgreening> neversfelde: ok. I can deal with that easy enough. ty
[19:43] <rgreening> 42%
[19:52] <neversfelde> 77 %
[19:52] <neversfelde> Winner
[19:57] <rgreening> lol
[19:57] <rgreening> 73% .... come on speed up ..
[19:57] <rgreening> I need to be building on my cluster... I'll be setting that up as a build server in a few months I guess...
[20:09] <bulldog98> hi I’m trying to branch the following branch: lp:ubuntu/lucid/kubuntu-docs and lp:~kubuntu-members/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks , but I get an Error
[20:10] <bulldog98> sh: getcwd() failed: No such file or directory
[20:10] <bulldog98> Permission denied (publickey).
[20:10] <bulldog98> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[20:11] <bulldog98> neversfelde had the idea that you have to be ubuntu-member to branch it but normaly an checkout should work
[20:29] <ScottK> Did you try a checkout?
[20:39] <bulldog98> ScottK: yes
[20:40] <neversfelde> bulldog98: at least the docs should have nothing to do with being a kubuntu member or not, so there is something wrong with your bzr setup
[20:41] <bulldog98> hm that’s not good
[20:42] <neversfelde> bulldog98: check your ssh keys, I'd say
[20:42] <bulldog98> neversfelde: ok
[20:47] <bulldog98> neversfelde: reimporting into launchpad didn’t helped
[20:48] <bulldog98> s/helped/help/
[20:49] <neversfelde> bulldog98: no idea sorry
[20:51] <ScottK> Probably ask in #launchpad.
[20:52] <bulldog98> ScottK: I’ll do that
[20:55] <rgreening> neversfelde: found the issue. kdebase-workspace-dev.install hardcoded 4.4.2 in the path for come of the cmake files. Never picked it up on test build against 4.4.2, but FTBFS on 4.4.3 becasue of it. Uploading in a few minutes
[20:55] <rgreening> s/come/some
[20:56] <neversfelde> sounds good
[21:06] <ofirk> amichair: hi :D
[21:11] <rgreening> neversfelde: I uploaded new revision. My build complained at end about some duplication, but I think that came out of the build fail I was in... I'll check on it later and see if it built, and if not, work on any needed fix.
[21:12] <neversfelde> rgreening: I will finish kdenetwork and go to bed, so I will not fix anything till tomorrow
[21:12]  * neversfelde crosses fingers
[21:12] <rgreening> heh
[21:12] <rgreening> np
[21:13] <rgreening> Im working kdeutils, then going home. will check back later neversfelde.
[21:17] <neversfelde> rgreening: get home save and gn8
[21:17] <rgreening> heh. yar
[21:17] <rgreening> :)
[21:18] <rgreening> ScottK: are we leaving standards version at 3.8.3 or bump to 3.8.4?
[21:18] <ScottK> rgreening: For 4.4.3, leave it.
[21:18] <rgreening> k. thought so
[21:18] <ScottK> Really we should only bump when merging frm Debian and they've bumped.
[21:18] <rgreening> yeah
[22:03] <bulldog98> neversfelde: works now
[22:05] <bulldog98> neversfelde: had to use clone
[22:35] <apachelogger> bug 574460 is sort of fun
[22:37] <apachelogger> see, the reported got rid of the earlier innodb error by randomly switching settings
[22:37] <apachelogger> one of them happened to be StartServer=false
[22:37] <apachelogger> which now makes akonadi not start the internal mysql but try to connect to a global mysqld
[22:38] <apachelogger> suffice to say there is none, making akonadi go down the drain
[22:53] <Sput> gotta love users
[23:06] <apparle> apachelogger: hi...
[23:07] <amichair> ofirk: evenin'
[23:07] <apachelogger> apparle: yo
[23:07] <apparle> apachelogger: I had some chat on API for package management...
[23:08] <apparle> apachelogger: found this http://drfav.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/introducing-shaman-a-new-universal-package-management-frontend/
[23:10] <apachelogger> *nod*
[23:10] <ofirk> amichair: hi
[23:10] <ofirk> amichair: can you look at this? http://pastebin.com/xXU2urn0
[23:11] <apparle> apachelogger: just thought I would tell you.... after all that discussion we had yesterday......
[23:11] <amichair> ofirk: look at this I can
[23:11]  * apachelogger notes that KDE has default widgets for foward/back which should be used
[23:12] <apachelogger> imagine the code duplication if we had that kind of if for all progressing buttons :)
[23:12] <ofirk> is there any other way of fixing it?
[23:12] <ofirk> it is related to bug 563687
[23:12] <apachelogger> apparle: I know about it, I do not think very highly of it though, I have yet to see a stable api spec et al ... it is a movement in the right direction though
[23:13] <apparle> apachelogger: talked to the dev for mentoring ...... for working on it
[23:13] <amichair> ofirk: whatever apachelogger says, I shall concur :-)
[23:14] <ofirk> this kind of bugs make kubuntu look un-professional
[23:16] <ofirk> some big israeli news sites are publishing reviews on Ubuntu and Kubuntu
[23:16] <ofirk> the first thing they look for is this kind of things which actually make a wrong impression about Kubuntu
[23:16] <apachelogger> ofirk, amichair: deriving from the right class would solve that issue ;)
[23:19] <ofirk> apachelogger: I found the solution here http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-usability&m=119572601811622&w=2
[23:20] <ofirk> apachelogger: actually, the only problem is for the arrow icons, so it shouldn't be a big deal
[23:21]  * apachelogger thinks that kdatepicker is quite different from ubiquity
[23:21] <apachelogger> http://api.kde.org/4.0-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKDatePicker.html
[23:21] <apachelogger> it implements own buttonization
[23:22] <apachelogger> ubiquity on the other hand is a dialog, so it should just implement the right kind of dialog class or someone should introduce appropriate movement buttons in some generic class
[23:23] <ofirk> I will look at other projects to see what they do
[23:24] <ofirk> and then report back
[23:24] <ofirk> :)
[23:24]  * apachelogger notes that even if other projects implement their own rtl magic for progress buttons it doesnt make it any more right :P
[23:25] <amichair> maybe something hiding here http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/RTL-bugs
[23:26] <apachelogger> nothing in sight
[23:51] <ofirk> maybe we need to use QApplication::reverseLayout() ?
[23:52]  * apachelogger is wondering if that is not used by default if the system is rtl
[23:53] <amichair> the display is reversed iirc, just the arrow buttons are wrong
[23:56] <apachelogger> in that case the buttons should either get their own class or, which is probably better ubiquity should derive from kassistantdialog or what it's called and use its next/previous capabilities
[23:56] <apachelogger> which probably brings the rtl support for free
[23:57] <amichair> shouldn't kicon be directionally aware?


[20:41] <mitya57> tsimonq2: In https://launchpadlibrarian.net/382624320/qtstyleplugins-src_5.0.0+git23.g335dbec-2build6_5.0.0+git23.g335dbec-2ubuntu1.diff.gz, looks like you forgot Breaks/Replaces
[20:43] <tsimonq2> mitya57: qt5-style-plugins is now a metapackage which depends on all the themes broken out into separate binaries. It can be coinstalled with an old version (if really necessary) because the new version is an empty binary, and upgrading pulls in all of the new packages as depends anyway.
[20:43] <tsimonq2> mitya57: Am I missing an important consideration here?
[20:44] <mitya57> tsimonq2: it is a meta-, but still a non-virtual package. And as files moved from one package to another, you need Breaks/Replaces or otherwise you will get dpkg errors on unpacking.
[20:45] <tsimonq2> mitya57: So where should the Breaks/Replaces go?
[20:46] <mitya57> All the new packages should Break/Replace qt5-style-plugins (<< 5.0.0+git23.g335dbec-2ubuntu1~)
[20:46] <tsimonq2> ACK.
[20:46] <mitya57> Also, I think qt5-style-platform-gtk2 should Depend on qt5-style-plugin-gtk2, not recommend it.
[20:46] <tsimonq2> OK.
[20:47] <mitya57> Also, you removed a note to use QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2 from the package description, which I think is quite important as it's not obvious how to enable the theme.
[20:49] <tsimonq2> Done.
[21:02] <mitya57> tsimonq2: thanks :)
[21:02] <tsimonq2> mitya57: Thank *you*. :)


[00:12] <AlanBell> Unit193: what is the plan for Drone?
[00:15] <Unit193> AlanBell: To use it in #kubuntu, #ubuntu, and likely #ubuntu+1 if needed.  It's been in debug mode past few months, which means it reports to -monitor when it'd take action, and it generally has better coverage of the different types of attacks than unopaste/AttackProtector does.  I sent a message to the list that outlines the features and plan, though a couple things have changed since.
[00:18] <AlanBell> OK, so what action do you want me to take? retire unopaste?
[00:18] <Unit193> Just for #ubuntu right now.
[00:33] <AlanBell> Unit193: sorry, broadband went down, not sure if I missed something there
 Just for #ubuntu right now.
[00:35] <Unit193> Not sure if you'd want to add someone as an admin in case the test doesn't go well, but I see you're the only one.
[00:36] <AlanBell> 00:36 -!- unopaste [meetingolo@ubuntu/bot/unopaste] has left #ubuntu ["AlanBell"]
[00:37] <Unit193> OK, and I've enabled Drone` now.  Thanks.
[00:37] <AlanBell> cool
[00:37] <AlanBell> unopaste was in #kubuntu, #ubuntu, #ubuntu-irc, #ubuntu-release-party, #ubuntu-sandbox, and #unopaste
[18:43] <Pici> ..
[18:44] <ikonia> ...
[21:45] <rww> I set cmode -j on #ubuntu while everything's bouncing around, so we don't get as much -unregged forwarding
[21:46] <rww> will reset +j 5:10 when it calms down
[22:14] <h00k> weee
[22:15] <rww> reset +j
[22:15]  * rww wanders off


[03:14] <Ahmuck> is there an ical version of edubuntu meetings, events, etc?
[03:16] <Ahmuck> btw, i was looking at webdev this aftenoon.  sunbird has the option of caldev or ical.  looking at wikipedia, ical is a subset or a way to code info from caldev.  how do the tow interact?
[03:17] <Ahmuck> did edubuntu have a meeting today. looking at the fridge, i don't see a listing
[04:12] <sbalneav> Ahmuck:
[04:12] <sbalneav> yes
[05:14] <sbalneav> Well, I found where it's dying in gksu anyway.
[05:24] <sbalneav> yeesh, code's crap, they're doing fgets without checking result codes.
[05:30] <alkisg> That's about gksu? Geez, you should write your own OS while you're fixing things... :)
[05:30] <sbalneav> well, it's the fact that something's giving an error code that's causing the proble.
[05:31] <sbalneav> but gksu blindly barrels ahead.
[05:31] <sbalneav> I think I can fix it by providing a configure option, force it to fork a pty
[05:31] <sbalneav> building another package now.
[05:31] <alkisg> Good morning btw. I got a question about bug handling. Suppose we want to fix this simple bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeedu/+bug/315909
[05:32] <alkisg> That's clearly an upstream bug, but upstream doesn't know about it: https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=kturtle
[05:32] <alkisg> So what do we do? We just forward it upstream? We file a bug in kde edu and include a patch?
[05:33] <sbalneav> Well, canonical's supposed to be forwarding patches upstream, however I've heard a lot of upstream devs complaining there's nothing flowing to them.
[05:33] <sbalneav> I'd say, lets come up with a patch for the bug, and make sure we forward it upstream manually.
[05:33] <sbalneav> that way we know they got it.
[05:34] <alkisg> OK, so for each bug that is clearly an upstream bug, we come up with a patch, and manually file a bug upstream. Got it. :)
[05:35] <sbalneav> Well, that's what I do, unless the bug's in an ubuntu applied patch.
[05:44] <sbalneav> YEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
[05:45] <sbalneav> \o/
[05:49] <sbalneav> stgraber: you still awake at this ungodly hour?
[05:49] <sbalneav> So, here's what's wrong with gksu
[05:50] <sbalneav> Looks like there's been some change in sudo, or something, anyway, sudo's looking for an actual tty now for passwd input
[05:50] <sbalneav> so
[05:50] <sbalneav> libgksu needs to be compiled with
[05:50] <sbalneav> --enable-sudo-forkpty
[06:37] <stgraber> sbalneav: yep
[06:37] <stgraber> interesting
[06:38] <stgraber> sbalneav: did you do a test build of it ?
[06:39] <stgraber> sbalneav: would be interesting to have it in your PPA, then poke Michael Vogt (mvo) to see if he's anything against that change (as in, potential regression)
[06:39] <stgraber> and if not, we'll just change it ;)
[06:39]  * stgraber looks at Debian to see if they made the change, if yes, then it's a simple packaging change merge ;)
[06:41] <stgraber> hmm, nope, Debian has the same ...
[06:43] <stgraber> oh, actually it seems like this used to exist as a patch in previous versions
[06:43] <stgraber> then was made upstream but the flag hasn't been added to the configure
[06:44] <stgraber> sbalneav: can you file a bug on LP about it and give me the bug number ? I'll see tomorrow if I feel like doing the change or I'll poke someone in the desktop team.
[06:44] <stgraber> it's a bit late here to break libgksu :)
[09:06]  * ogra_ yawns
[09:25]  * alkisg hands a cup of coffee to ogra
[09:28] <ogra_> :)
[09:43]  * alkisg wonders why "Try Edubuntu without any change to your computer" in the edubuntu installer is untraslated in *all* languages, while on launchpad it's translated...
[09:43] <ogra_> talk to cjwatson, i guess he hasnt imported the translations into debian-installer
[09:44] <alkisg> danke!
[10:14] <alkisg> Is there any way to install edubuntu, and then switch to all the regular ubuntu themes, layouts, icons etc?
[13:44] <sbalneav> stgraber: libgksu IS broken NOW compared to it's previous defaults
[13:44] <sbalneav> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgksu/+bug/501559
[13:50]  * highvoltage drinks an energy tablet
[13:50] <highvoltage> good morning everyone
[13:50] <highvoltage> or good afternoon if you're in my timezone :)
[14:05] <alkisg> Good afternoon :)
[14:06] <alkisg> Is there any way to install edubuntu, and then switch to all the regular ubuntu themes, layouts, icons etc?
[14:09] <toogreen> alkisg, i did it by removing a few packages like edubuntu-artwork, if i remember well
[14:10] <toogreen> and then for the icon themes and stuff u can simply change it in the preferences/themes
[14:10] <alkisg> That's a per user change, how do I change the system defaults for that?
[14:10] <alkisg> I tried update-alternatives --all but that didn't quite do it...
[14:11] <highvoltage> heh
[14:11] <toogreen> alkisg, hmm i guess by removing the themes packages, not sure tho :-/ im just a regular joe user hehe
[14:11] <alkisg> toogreen: heh, sure, thanks for the advice
[14:11] <highvoltage> alkisg: removing the theme packages should really do the trick
[14:12] <toogreen> i came here to ask for help too actually
[14:12] <alkisg> highvoltage: I'll try it again, I had some problems with the logging off/on with the daily live :)
[14:12] <alkisg> toogreen: sure, shoot!
[14:13] <toogreen> was just wondering if anyone knows if/when the issue with italc and remote shutdown/rebooting in Karmic will be fixed
[14:13] <alkisg> toogreen: I sent a patch for it, did you try it?
[14:13] <toogreen> hmm I'm not sure how to apply patches :-/
[14:13] <alkisg> (I also have updated packages for it in my ppa)
[14:13] <alkisg> Are you using Karmic?
[14:14] <toogreen> won't it be just released in a normal update?
[14:14] <toogreen> yeah using Karmic
[14:14] <alkisg> Well we'll have to convince stgraber to include it in his italc patches :)
[14:14] <toogreen> I have two Linux labs in my school, one is still Jaunty, the other Karmic
[14:14] <alkisg> ...so the best course there would be to try the patches (=install the debs from my ppa), and confirm that they work
[14:15] <alkisg> Let me get you the links...
[14:15] <toogreen> in the Jaunty lab, I fixed the issue by installing powermanagement package (or something like that)
[14:15] <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/italc/+bug/367960
[14:15] <toogreen> ok will try the PPA solution, thanks
[14:15] <alkisg> Ah, I see you've commented there
[14:15] <toogreen> yeah I did
[14:16] <alkisg> Do post a reply if you verify that my patches work, it'll help in their inclusion in the ubuntu package
[14:16] <toogreen> I thought the patches were more complicated tho
[14:16] <toogreen> heheh
[14:16] <toogreen> ok cool, will try
[14:16] <toogreen> im at home now tho
[14:16] <toogreen> only start working again on the 4th of Jan
[14:16] <toogreen> will try then
[14:16] <alkisg> What are you using? i386 or amd64?
[14:16] <toogreen> i was just wondering about the status of this bug
[14:16] <toogreen> i386
[14:17] <alkisg> Here are the .debs: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/proposed/+sourcepub/891138/+listing-archive-extra
[14:17] <alkisg> This way you can download them manually if you don't want to include my ppa in your sources
[14:19] <toogreen> ok that's cool, thanks a lot!!
[14:20] <toogreen> It was rather annoying indeed to turn 30 computers off one by one everyday, heheh :-P
[14:20] <toogreen> I'd say this is a killer feature of italc :-)
[14:20] <toogreen> for lazy ppl like me
[14:20] <alkisg> Sure I used that too, a lot
[14:21] <alkisg> My main problem with iTalc is that on my last lab it crashed after just a few seconds of broadcasting :(
[14:21] <toogreen> alkisg r u working in a school too?
[14:21] <alkisg> In 3 other labs it was working fine, though...
[14:22] <alkisg> Yup, I'm mostly a teacher
[14:22] <toogreen> i have many issues with iTalc actually... I don't rely on it too much for demonstrating.. I use the projector/screen combo instead
[14:22]  * alkisg wishes he had a projector :(
[14:22] <toogreen> it was too unstable in my case
[14:22] <toogreen> i think the network is too slow or something
[14:22] <alkisg> Do you have a full gigabit network?
[14:22] <toogreen> I use iTalc mainly to send messages, take control, or lock the screen
[14:23] <toogreen> I'm not sure actually, think so but the network setup is pretty messy in our school
[14:23] <alkisg> Nah, it's not the network that's slow. VNC is the main problem, and iTalc makes it worse.. E.g. freenx works just fine.
[14:23] <toogreen> i mainly teach, there are other ppl in charge of network etc
[14:24] <toogreen> ok
[14:24] <alkisg> Ah.  China here
[14:25] <toogreen> I'm Canadian tho, but working/teaching in China
[14:25] <alkisg> Greece...
[14:25] <toogreen> ok
[14:25] <toogreen> Just wondering, how widely spread Ubuntu is in schools over there?
[14:26] <alkisg> It's not widespread yet. We're working on it :)
[14:26] <toogreen> Yeah same here. In Shanghai as far as I know I'm one of the rare ones pushing Ubuntu/FOSS
[14:26] <toogreen> Everywhere else is pirate Windows XP
[14:27] <toogreen> and piracy is so widely common and accepted
[14:27] <alkisg> Yeah same here...
[14:27] <toogreen> it's hard to teach ppl and convince them to use FOSS...
[14:27] <alkisg> But, 2 years ago a pilot program was started by the greek ministry of education. About 20 labs started using Ubuntu/LTSP, bug most of them abandoned it before the year was over.
[14:27] <highvoltage> toogreen: aparently very few people run legal copies of anything there
[14:27] <toogreen> highvoltage, true... which is a shame and im trying to educate ppl around me, at least
[14:28] <highvoltage> toogreen: great
[14:28] <alkisg> A few of us straggled to make it work like we wanted it, we wrote some manuals and scripts for customization, and now the user base is constantly increasing
[14:29] <toogreen> highvoltage, one thing that saddens me a great deals is computer dealers all around, they do have systems that are windows-less... Like Dell machines for instances, but they put Windows XP pirate on them even before ppl buy them!!
[14:29] <toogreen> so when you go shopping for computers in Shanghai, all computers without OS are already running Windows XP
[14:30] <toogreen> except few exceptions but its mainly that
[14:31] <toogreen> At the very beginning of EeePCs it was interesting, they left the original Xandros there... But talking to the salesmen they told me everybody was asking to replace it with WinXP
[14:31] <toogreen> So they started just installing XP on demonstrators as well and completely disregarding Linux
[14:32] <toogreen> anyways, its pretty sad
[14:32] <toogreen> Even people who buy Macs in Shanghai, most of them ask the sales ppl if they can wipe out Mac OS and put XP instead!!
[14:32] <toogreen> Not sure why Chinese ppl like XP so much.. heheh
[14:33] <alkisg> toogreen: here's a good link against piracy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponosov%27s_case
[14:34] <alkisg> That teacher was convicted because he bought PCs with pirated windows on them
[14:34] <alkisg> Since then he became a FLOSS advocate, and now Russia moved on to using open source...
[14:36] <toogreen> alkisg, thanks for the link, I sure will show this to some people I know!!!
[14:37] <toogreen> printing it out now...
[14:40] <sbalneav> alkisg: Why Sabayon would help you with your theming woes!
[14:41] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:41] <sbalneav> reading scrollback
[14:41] <alkisg> sbalneav: really? hmmm I hear that it has some severe gksu-related bugs, though... :P :D
[14:43] <sbalneav> <rage on>
[14:43] <sbalneav> WHRAAAAAAAAAA HULK SMASH
[14:43] <sbalneav> </rage off>
[14:43] <highvoltage> heh nice one alkisg
[14:44] <sbalneav> Fixed.  Now I just have to convince someone with upload rights that fixing is isn't "breaking it this late in the cycle"
[14:44] <alkisg> Late?! Only an alpha was out...
[14:44] <sbalneav> even tho' it's demonstrably broken now, and by fixing it, I restore previous functionality.
[14:44] <sbalneav> See stgraber's comment above :)
[14:48] <alkisg> sbalneav: if you're talking about "it's a bit late here to break libgksu :)", I think stgraber meant that it was late in the day, i.e. midnight...
[14:49] <sbalneav> Ah, I assumed that meant "in the development cycle" :)
[14:50] <sbalneav> Anywho, hopefully I can convince someone (shouldn't necessarily be stgraber, btw.) that this is important.
[14:58] <highvoltage> sbalneav: shouldn't take much
[15:03] <sbalneav> Heh, only had one bite so far, and he wanted me to justify why upstream had made the change in the first place. :)
[15:04]  * sbalneav put on his Johnny Carson "Carnac the Magnificent" heagear, holds libgksu2-0 source to forhead
[15:05] <sbalneav> Wait, how many people here get that?
[15:05] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I get this for cnetworkmanager on my host: http://paste.ubuntu.com/349113/
[15:05] <highvoltage> sbalneav: know what could be causing that?
[15:06] <highvoltage> sbalneav: it sounds like something north-americanish :)
[15:07] <sbalneav> That from my packages?
[15:07] <highvoltage> yep
[15:07] <sbalneav> one sec
[15:13] <sbalneav> How'd you get the error?
[15:13] <sbalneav> try a cnetworkmanager -d
[15:16] <highvoltage> still says the same
[15:17] <sbalneav> You install it on a karmic box?
[15:17] <sbalneav> I just installed it here on my karmic box, works fine.
[15:19] <highvoltage> sbalneav: yep
[15:19] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I'll look at it again a bit later and let you know if I get it running
[15:19] <sbalneav> well, the error indicates that something's not right with dbus
[15:21] <sbalneav> ls -l /etc/dbus-1/system.d/cnetworkmanager.conf
[15:21] <sbalneav> wait:
[15:21] <sbalneav> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files
[15:21] <|user|> hello
[15:21] <sbalneav> Did you uninstall networkmanager?
[15:21] <sbalneav> |user|: hello
[15:22] <|user|> i have edubuntu on my asus eee900ha
[15:22] <|user|> my wireles wont work
[15:22] <highvoltage> sbalneav: nope, should I?
[15:22] <highvoltage> sbalneav: well, I installed networkmanager just shortly before
[15:23] <highvoltage> sbalneav: ah, after a reboot it magically works
[15:23] <sbalneav> highvoltage: well, restarting the system might help
[15:23] <sbalneav> I suspect network manager isn't properly runnig yet
[15:24] <sbalneav> |user|: What kind of wireless is in that machine?  I'm not familiar with that hardware
[15:24] <highvoltage> |user|: edubuntu 9.10?
[15:25] <|user|> yes
[15:25] <|user|> i dont know why
[15:26] <|user|> i installed kde
[15:26] <|user|> too
[15:28] <highvoltage> "anomalies" nice.
[15:28] <sbalneav> highvoltage: The error basically means that cnetworkmanager tried to talk to NetworkMangler, but there wasn't one registered with dbus.
[15:29] <sbalneav> How the heck did you NOT have networkmanager installed on Ubuntu? it's like freaking default for everything now.
[15:30] <highvoltage> sbalneav: this machine doesn't have an X server installed
[15:30] <highvoltage> sbalneav: it's a small server machine that I want to put on wi-fi
[15:37] <sbalneav> Well, you'll need networkmanager running properly in order to get cnetworkmanager to work.
[16:22] <sbalneav> alkisg: And here we have the primary problem with Ubuntu.
[16:23] <sbalneav> "What you want to do isn't right, but I don't have time to research how to fix the problem, or give you any suggestions on how to fix it, so things should just stay broken"
[16:24] <alkisg> Right, I hate this kind of talk :(
[16:26] <sbalneav> I mean, I'd be more than happy to start identifying SDL applications, and filing bugs to make them dep on -pulseaudio
[16:28] <sbalneav> And now, he's ignoring us.
[16:29] <alkisg> sbalneav: I tried that for 2-3 apps, no sugar
[16:29] <alkisg> ...and I don't think it's a good solution either
[16:30] <alkisg> Maybe a better solution would be on a higher level. E.g. Ubuntu wants pulse? Maybe ubuntu-desktop should depend on libsdl-pulse, and kubuntu on libsdl-alsa...
[16:30] <sbalneav> Maybe not, but it's better than "doing nothing"
[16:30] <sbalneav> That's an idea
[16:30] <sbalneav> Why not suggest that.
[16:31] <alkisg> It needs searching to support this idea... maybe ubuntu-desktop is not the proper package, but some other one, lower on the hierarchy
[16:31] <alkisg> Bah let's mention it, nothing to lose
[16:31] <sbalneav> I don't understand why it's not a dep for pulse, personally
[16:32] <sbalneav> Really, what you need is conditional deps :)
[16:33] <alkisg> Right, and a better conffile system ;)
[16:34] <sbalneav> Could you write that for us?
[16:34] <sbalneav> I like your dummy packages idea.
[16:34] <sbalneav> that wouldn't be that hard.
[16:37] <alkisg> Sure I could write that. That's the easy part.
[16:38] <alkisg> The question is, who'd want that? :D
[16:38] <alkisg> I don't think anyone's listening... ;)
[16:38] <highvoltage> dummy packages?
[16:39] <alkisg> highvoltage: packaging problem. libsdl1.2debian depends on libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio |  libsdl1.2debian-all | libsdl1.2debian-alsa | libsdl1.2debian-esd | libsdl1.2debian-oss | libsdl1.2debian-nas
[16:39] <alkisg> Ah sorry
[16:39] <alkisg> alsa in front
[16:39] <alkisg> So it breaks the sound (or even worse) in all packages that use SDL on Ubuntu
[16:39] <alkisg> e.g. one of the many, many bug reports about this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/203158
[16:40] <alkisg> So we're trying to propose a good way for libsdl to depend on pulse on ubuntu, but on alsa on kubuntu (as kubuntu doesn't use pulse by default)
[16:42] <sbalneav> I kind of like how we're willing to accept broken behaviour in the primary product, to make sure things work perfectly in the secondary product.
[16:42] <sbalneav> And here's where it will stall.
[16:43]  * alkisg guesses either ScottK uses Kubuntu, or he doesn't use any SDL based apps at all :D
[16:44] <sbalneav> If it wasn't for having good guys like ogra and stgraber around to champion issue for us, I'd have given up on ubuntu long ago
[16:44]  * sbalneav hugs ogra, stgraber
[16:45] <sbalneav> Well, yeah, none of the main ubuntu apps are sdl I think
[16:47] <sbalneav> They all universe packages?
[16:47] <alkisg> !info tuxpaint
[16:48] <alkisg> Nope
[16:48] <sbalneav> perfect.
[16:48] <sbalneav> LOL
[16:49] <alkisg> Maybe we should start a riot outside of Mark's office :P
[16:50] <sbalneav> I already managed to affect some stuff
[16:50] <alkisg> !info gstreamer0.10-sdl
[16:50] <sbalneav> I complained to Jorge Castro about bug handling.
[16:51] <sbalneav> He's apparently got a "team" that's going to be scouring lunchpad for bugs filed that actally have patches attached
[16:51] <alkisg> Yey!
[16:51] <sbalneav> apparently, they've got in excess of 1600 bugs that have patches attached, that no-ones looking at.
[16:51] <alkisg> That'd solve *a lot* of problems...
[16:53] <sbalneav> I got that ball rolling when I whined and stamped my feet about the cups bug for hardy
[16:54] <sbalneav> which, BTW, still hasn't been fixed :)
[16:54]  * alkisg shrugs :(
[16:54] <alkisg> !info libsdl1.2debian
[16:55] <sbalneav> I know it sounds like I've been a whiny little primadonna the last few weeks, but goldarnit, we're not going to get these issues fixed unless we make some noise about them.
[17:14] <alkisg> ...and thus, the libsdl bug is again shoved...
[17:17] <sbalneav> I'd cut-n-paste the convo into the bug
[17:18] <sbalneav> I know, it's frustrating isn't it?  Bottom line is, base ubuntu doesn't rely on any sdl apps, so....
[17:18] <alkisg> But it does. libsdl is installed by default in the live cd.
[17:19] <sbalneav> Right, but not the right one.
[17:19] <alkisg> Yes, so if we put the correct one in the dependencies of ubuntu-desktop, it'll be fixed.
[17:19] <sbalneav> but none of the default ubuntu apps that I know of are sdl
[17:19] <alkisg> Where's the problem in that?
[17:19] <sbalneav> You're preaching to the choir Brother Alkis!  :)
[17:19]  * alkisg will try to see *how* libsdl gets in the live cd...
[17:20] <sbalneav> Amen, Glory Halleluia!
[17:20] <sbalneav> I don't see a problem with it AT ALL.
[17:41] <sbalneav> ah, right, we're dropping gimp too.
[17:41] <sbalneav> Race to the bottom.
[17:42] <alkisg> I think we need to fix all those broken dependencies in edubuntu, and just ignore everything ubuntu does :P :D
[17:43] <sbalneav> I'm all for that, although I don't no how we'd do it.
[17:43] <sbalneav> We'd need our own complete apt archive.
[17:44] <alkisg> Nope. We'd just make edubuntu-desktop depend on libsdl-pulse ;)
[17:44] <alkisg> (we ship gimp anyways :D)
[17:46] <sbalneav> Ah, well, yeah, WE can do that for edubuntu-desktop, for sure.
[18:19] <alkisg> Nailed it. :D
[18:19] <alkisg> A conflicts: libsdl-alsa on the pulseaudio package should be a nice fix. Testing...
[18:51] <sbalneav> DID SOMETHING GET COMMITTED?!?!!
[18:51]  * sbalneav 's jaw drops in amazement
[18:51] <sbalneav> \o/ for alkisg
[18:56] <alkisg> Hey wait who said anything about commits?
[18:57] <alkisg> I just had an idea which seems acceptable to them, and I'll test it, and then they'll think about commiting it... :D
[18:58] <sbalneav> ah, jumped the gun :)
[18:58]  * alkisg uploaded a fixed pulseaudio package to his ppa, and downloaded the lucid daily cd.  :(
[22:06] <Ahmuck> alkisg: u fixed pulseaudio?
[22:06] <alkisg> Ahmuck: nope, not at all
[23:15] <alkisg> !info  libsdl1.2debian-alsa
[23:15] <alkisg> !info libsdl1.2debian-alsa
[23:15] <alkisg> !info libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio


[07:56] <wilei> Hi! Should there be (in the mainline-crack GIT repository) tags for 4.11.8 and 4.11.9 kernels? I'm trying to build custom kernel from mainline-crack and after "git fetch" the command "git checkout -b `cat COMMIT`" I get error: 'fatal: reference is not a tree: f82a53b87594f460f2dd9983eeb851a5840e8df8' and that's for 4.11.9. And the command "git tag" doesn't return 4.11.9 nor 4.11.8...
[08:25] <apw> wilei, what does COMMIT contain ?
[08:27] <apw> wilei, the master repo for that has 4.11.9 in it
[08:29] <wilei> apw, COMMIT is copy of http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.11.9/COMMIT
[08:30] <apw> does the instructions tell you to git checkout -b `cat COMMIT`
[08:30] <apw> that sounds wrong to me
[08:30] <apw> git checkout -b test `head -1 COMMIT`
[08:30] <apw> wilei, does that work ?
[08:31] <wilei> I'll try that
[08:32] <apw> wilei, where are the instructions you are following
[08:32] <wilei> that worked. but wierdly that `cat COMMIT´ worked for v.4.10.17... :)
[08:33] <apw> as i suspect we have enhanced the content of COMMIT at some point, perhaps our instructions are wrong
[08:33] <wilei> apw, I'm mixing these instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild
[08:33] <apw> (and if they say that command they are)
[08:34] <apw> wilei, ok the only reference on that page to COMMIT is not related to the contents of the COMMIT file in a mainline build
[08:34] <wilei> files http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.10.17/COMMIT and http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.11.9/COMMIT doesn't differ that much
[08:35] <apw> wilei, perhaps so but you are asking it to interpolate those two lines on the end
[08:35] <apw> of the git ceckout -b
[08:35] <apw> so you get:
[08:35] <wilei> yeah
[08:35] <apw> git checkout -b v4.10.17 17a4d48033813f2ba893d6918fa2931afcd9af02
[08:35] <apw> which is asking ot make a local branch under the name of a likely existing tag
[08:35] <apw> that is just asking for trouble
[08:36] <apw> the first line is the tag name in that repo which you want, the second line is a check
[08:36] <apw> so we can tell if the tag changes, which it never should
[08:36] <wilei> true :) thanks!
[08:37] <apw> git checkout -b <useful branch name> `head -1 COMMIT`
[08:37] <apw> makes sense
[08:43] <wilei> but actually not :)
[08:43] <wilei> git checkout -b v4.11.9 `head -1 ../v4.11.9/COMMIT` returns fatal: Cannot update paths and switch to branch 'v4.11.9' at the same time.
[08:44] <wilei> and if I run command "git checkout -b dev f82a53b87594f460f2dd9983eeb851a5840e8df8" I still get error "fatal: reference is not a tree: f82a53b87594f460f2dd9983eeb851a5840e8df8"
[08:45] <wilei> the f82a53b87594f460f2dd9983eeb851a5840e8df8 is reference for tag v4.11.9 which is missing from mainline-crack
[08:46] <wilei> mainline-crack as git://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-test/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/mainline-crack
[08:46] <wilei> but it exists in git://kernel.ubuntu.com/virgin/testing/crack.git
[08:47] <wilei> "git tag | grep v4.11" doesn't return v4.11.8 nor v4.11.9 when done in clone of mainline-crack, so the tags are missing :)
[08:49] <apw> wilei, no you already have a branch
[08:49] <apw> you made it when it went wrong before
[08:49] <apw> don't use tag names for your branch
[08:49] <apw> and use a "new" branch name with using -b
[08:50] <wilei> only branches I've in my clone are master and v4.10.17
[08:51] <wilei> and v4.10.17 is checkouted just like I was trying to checkout v4.11.9
[08:51] <apw> wilei | git checkout -b v4.11.9 `head -1 ../v4.11.9/COMMIT` returns fatal: Cannot update paths and switch to branch 'v4.11.9' at the
[08:51] <apw> if it is saying that, you already have a v4.11.9 _thing_ in your repo
[08:51] <wilei> and I tried this too: "git checkout -b wdev f82a53b87594f460f2dd9983eeb851a5840e8df8" resulting "fatal: reference is not a tree: f82a53b87594f460f2dd9983eeb851a5840e8df8"
[08:51] <apw> you cannot trivially name a branch the same as a tag
[08:52] <apw> yeah use the tag name
[08:52] <apw> git checkout -b wdev v4.11.9
[08:52] <wilei> apw, that gives: "fatal: Cannot update paths and switch to branch 'wdev' at the same time."
[08:58] <wilei> now I got it working, there was some problem with git fetch so I had to clone repo again
[09:47] <apw> wilei, sounds odd, as that error is nothing to do with fetching, but hey, if it is working life is good
[22:13] <lucasrangit> What is the reason for having debian.master and debian.hwe-edge in https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/xenial/tree/?h=hwe-edge ?


[00:32] <redtape|renegade> OT | Made me tickle :::   must be from blighty (?) :::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlH5SDGoyA
[05:54] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:54] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:54] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[05:55] <n-iggerlove> ubuntu is for niggers,
[06:48] <knightwise> morning everyone
[06:49] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[06:49] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[06:49] <knightwise> how are you today
[06:50] <brobostigon> knightwise: not bad, busy day, jobcentre etc. and you?
[06:50] <knightwise> pretty ok, also a busy day , meetings and shit
[06:51] <brobostigon> :) :(
[06:51] <knightwise> its ok .got an ssh tunnel to my machine at home to keep me busy when its boring
[06:51] <knightwise> currently writing some simple backup scripts.
[06:51] <brobostigon> :)
[06:52] <knightwise> rsyncing my itunes library and making a monthly zip file and stuff
[06:52] <MooDoo> hello all
[06:52] <knightwise> hey MooDoo
[06:52] <MooDoo> :)
[06:52] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[06:52] <knightwise> btw : whats the best compresiion , zip or tar ?
[07:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: technically tar isn't compressed.
[07:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> tar is gzip'd or bz2zipped subsequently to being tar'd
[07:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> bz2 give higher compressions ratios that zip IIRC
[07:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all BTW
[07:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sun in Farnham again today :-)
[07:10] <brobostigon> rain here, :(
[07:10] <diplo> Morning all
[07:11] <brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer and diplo
[07:11] <diplo> Lets get some chatting going here so I don't have to see the messsages from earlier :)
[07:19] <knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: so I would be better of b2z 'ing the entire directory
[07:20] <diplo> Takes a fair bit longer, also dependant on what compression you set- default is 5? maybe i think and can go up to 9
[07:20] <diplo> But yes bzip gives better compression but using more cpu etc
[07:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> you can tar with a -j to bzip2 the tar as you go, e.g. # tar jcf mytarball.tgz mydir/
[07:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> I generally just use gzip tar zcf
[07:22] <diplo> Moi aussi :)
[07:22] <dwatkins_> tar -cvzf
[07:29] <knightwise> what does the f do ?
[07:31] <diplo> Filename for the archive you're creating I believe
[07:35] <dwatkins> yeah
[07:35] <dwatkins> it also serves to remind me where the filename goes (immediately after the options)
[07:35] <knightwise> ah ok
[07:35] <dwatkins> as opposed to the spec of files to include in the archive
[07:36] <knightwise> trying it out now on my entire itunes library
[07:36] <dwatkins> I suspect the minus sign and possibly the 'f' are unnecessary, but I've been using tar so long, I forget where I started with those options, probably an RS6000 in 1994 ;)
[07:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> "f" must be the last switch before the filename. tar fcz mtfile.tgz mydir/ won't work.
[07:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> The - is not required, but is a throwback to long, long ago...
[07:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can use it or not as you wish
[07:37] <dwatkins> I always find it strange that commands are so inconsistent with each other, some needing the minus, some not, etc.
[07:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> man tar has lots of useful information
[07:37] <dwatkins> At least tar is adaptable, I suppose.
[07:37] <dwatkins> (as is ps)
[07:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> tar is one of the few left that do not require it from what I have noticed.
[07:38] <dwatkins> ah ok, my information is probably old then.
[07:38]  * TheOpenSourcerer waits to be informed...
[07:38] <dwatkins> I've waited a long time for that...
[07:39] <dwatkins> ...then I started reading the manual.
[07:48] <knightwise> I loved the XKCD about tar :)
[08:14] <dwatkins> heh yeah
[08:20] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy UN Peacekeepers Day!
[08:37] <BigRedS_> Goooood Morning!
[08:39]  * diplo is playing with ldap this morning :)
[08:40] <diddledan> ldap's fun
[08:40] <diplo> Umm fun isn't a word I'd use so far :)
[08:40] <diddledan> :-p
[08:40] <diplo> pita, could make it a lot clearer, but it's starting to go in the noggin now
[08:40] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:41] <diplo> Wording in it could be clearer, writing my own notes for it as well
[08:42] <diddledan> I don't get with ldap how it manages to be entirely schemaless. with schemas
[08:43] <diddledan> and that the schemas are stored in the db according to a schema stored in the db that wasn't there when you started
[08:43] <diddledan> braingoo
[08:44] <SuperMatt> the day I have to configure my own ldap is that day I quit life
[08:44] <diddledan> lol
[09:19] <mungbean> wifey is out for 1hr max today. chances of citylink attempting to deliver in that 1hr window? high
[09:19] <diddledan> VERY high
[09:20] <mungbean> :'(
[09:20] <mungbean> though i hear the depot is v nearby
[09:28] <Laney> put a note on the door
[09:28] <Laney> usually works
[09:29] <mungbean> "leave with neighbour?"
[09:29] <Nafallo> "wifey gone shopping. please please please wait for her!"
[09:30] <Laney> leave in <x place>, yeah
[09:30] <BigRedS_> that's one thing I do like about Amazon's otherwise alarmingly insecure deliveries
[09:31] <popey> i got a DPD mail today giving me the exact 1 hour window it will be delivered in
[09:31] <popey> 16:16-17:16
[09:31] <mungbean> nice
[09:32] <mungbean> i know its out for delivery :-\
[09:33] <Laney> I decided to buy something right before I fell asleep last night
[09:33] <Laney> and now I can't remember what it was
[09:33] <popey> \o/
[09:33] <mungbean> bacon
[09:33] <popey> was it sheep?
[09:33] <Laney> oh yeah, homebrew stuff
[09:34] <mungbean> got put off the diea after my student days and a foul tasting conconction
[09:38] <diddledan> *like*
[09:38] <diddledan> foul tasting concoctions are great when you're a student
[09:40] <diddledan> I like student towns when you go out on the piss they come round near the end of trading with lashings of shots - usually either green or red and often in testtubes
[09:40] <diddledan> I have no idea what's in them, but they're awesome :-p
[09:40] <popey> ☻
[09:40] <Laney> I've made some quite drinkable stuff from kits
[09:41] <diddledan> lies!
[09:41] <Laney> want to step it up to choosing my own ingredients
[09:41] <Laney> I am jealous of kirkland's setup
[09:41] <diddledan> they're building a distilliary near where I grew up in freefolk/laverstoke - nr basingstoke
[09:42] <Laney> http://www.ubrewtu.com/
[09:43] <diddledan> http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/9554536.Gin_project_is_a_tonic/
[09:43] <Nafallo> Laney: No match for "UBREWTO.COM".
[09:44] <JamesTait> Nafallo, or ubrew.to
[09:52] <mungbean> best package for drawing diagrams in ubuntu?
[09:52] <mungbean> (or web based)
[09:52] <popey> http://www.asciidraw.com/
[09:52] <mungbean> that's my usual goto for wiki pages.
[09:53] <mungbean> this is more visio related
[09:53] <mungbean> i guess draw, dia or caligra
[09:55] <Nafallo> mungbean: dia
[09:55] <mungbean> doh, i chose calligra
[09:56] <Nafallo> gah
[09:56] <Myrtti> gah?
[09:56] <Nafallo> join/parts
[09:56] <diddledan> gah!
[09:56] <Nafallo> annoying
[09:56] <popey> \o/
[09:57] <Nafallo> cheers Myrtti :-)
[09:57] <Myrtti> be'er?
[09:57] <mungbean> still plagued by the debconf on <hostname> window flashing up multiple times during software install
[09:58] <diddledan> that's a strange banmask
[09:59] <diddledan> how does it know who's got broken connections to match the @*$##fix_your_connection?!
[09:59] <bigcalm> I've been listening to a string of The Infinite Monkey Cage podcasts. All caught up so thought I'd move onto the last uupc. My brain wasn't able to process Tony's voice in my headphones, I think it was expecting Brian Cox
[09:59] <bigcalm> diddledan: it's a message
[09:59] <diddledan> aah
[09:59] <Myrtti> er, no.
[09:59] <diddledan> so the mask is just *
[09:59] <Myrtti> it banforwards to a channel called ##fix_your_connection
[10:00] <bigcalm> Nice
[10:00] <Myrtti> and it knows it by the nickname, see the part before the !
[10:00] <Myrtti> andatche!*@*$##fix_your_connection
[10:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:06] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:15] <czajkowski> ello davmor2
[10:16] <SuperMatt> hulk smash!
[10:18] <bigcalm> Wish I could be in 2 places at once
[10:19] <bigcalm> Missing the LUG tonight because Hayley and I are out celebrating her birthday from yesterday
[10:19] <bigcalm> It's a shame that she doesn't see going to the LUG as a good form of celebration
[10:20] <popey> Clare went to out LUG meeting _once_
[10:20] <DJones> Tell her its a fountain pen converntion, then when you get there say they must have swapped the date with with LUG meeting
[10:20] <bigcalm> Hayley has been to the LUG xmas meal and is likely to attend the Pie Factory in 2 weeks. But no interest other than that
[10:20] <diddledan> that's sad :-(
[10:21] <diddledan> :'(
[10:21] <popey> understandable, lug meets are often boring to outsiders
[10:21] <popey> my kids go to them only because I drag them along and they can sit and play games while i do a talk
[10:21] <bigcalm> Yes and no. She says that it's my social thing
[10:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: you only want to go now that you saw my name go down on the life is too hectic to attend list ;)
[10:21] <popey> e.g. https://plus.google.com/109365858706205035322/posts/c12F6vLasK8
[10:22] <bigcalm> davmor2: just seen the post the ml. How can work be too busy for you when czajkowski does everything? :P
[10:22] <bigcalm> Minecraft \o/
[10:22] <mungbean> would a husband go to a jewellery party?
[10:22] <popey> indeed
[10:22] <bigcalm> popey: I'm guessing that your LUG doesn't meet in a pub?
[10:23] <bigcalm> (doesn't look very pubby)
[10:23] <diddledan> the linux community gets a reputation as being male because it's mainly male and therefore only male people join
[10:23] <popey> the one she went to was in a pub
[10:23] <popey> she was ~6 months pregnant with sophie, too
[10:23] <mungbean> was the beard count hgh?
[10:23] <popey> thats actually one of the first times I met Tony & Laura
[10:23] <czajkowski> I think it varies on the lug tbh and the people there on the day. I met my other half at the LUG meet up. But it's not one I go back to often either.
[10:24] <mungbean> i don't LUG because there are lots of linux users at work
[10:24] <mungbean> i would meet up at a scale model UG though
[10:24] <mungbean> since my friends haven't realised that this is the best hobby to do ....yet
[10:25] <bigcalm> Working from home means that I look forward to just seeing other people once a fortnight at the LUG :)
[10:25] <mungbean> nice
[10:26] <mungbean> drawing a diagram in calligra flow. its very visio ish but i can't change the colour of the lines :(
[10:26] <mungbean> and buggy
[10:26] <mungbean> got potential though
[10:43] <BigRedS> Just use paper, felt tips and a camera phone
[10:46] <mungbean> for sending to oracle?
[10:47] <BigRedS> Maybe crack out the crayons for them
[11:26] <czajkowski> Laney: popey one for ye http://imgur.com/r/funny/dRlvEOU
[11:28] <bigcalm> czajkowski: that's screwing with my mind!
[11:36] <JamesTait> czajkowski, that's the afternoon gone....
[11:37] <czajkowski> JamesTait: I know I have to avoid that site at all cost
[11:37] <czajkowski> s
[11:37] <JamesTait> :)
[11:39] <diddledan> that's ay maze zing!
[11:39] <diddledan> trippy, too
[12:21] <mungbean> whats this motorbike game thats in software center?
[12:21] <mungbean> anyone tried it?
[12:23]  * BigRedS installs it
[12:27] <popey> which game>?
[12:27] <popey> oh, its actually called motorbike ☻
[12:28] <popey> "payment authorized"
[12:28] <popey> uhm
[12:31] <BigRedS> yeah, I couldn't find a way to install the apparently-free bit of it
[12:32] <BigRedS> Hm, the software centre's pretty good
[12:33] <mungbean> costs £0.00
[12:33] <mungbean> you get 10 free levels
[12:34] <popey> heh, that is quite fun
[12:34] <BigRedS> yeah, I can see where it says that, but not where to click to make it install
[12:34] <Laney> without having looked at it, i just got reminded of elastomania
[12:34] <Laney> now that was a fun game
[12:34] <BigRedS> Though I've got distracted playing with the software centre
[12:34] <DJones> There are some apps that you have to go through the payment processing system and purchase at the £0.00 price, doesn't ask for a credit card or anything
[12:35] <popey> i just typed "motorbike" in USC then clicked "more info" then "buy"
[12:35] <BigRedS> Ahh, that might do it
[12:35] <BigRedS> yeah, the 'Buy' wants me to log in with an account I don't have, so I figured it was the payment bit. I expected a 'Download free bit' button somewhere
[12:35] <BigRedS> I'll try DJones' theory
[12:35] <BigRedS> Oh, it's just a launchpad account it wants
[12:35] <DJones> BigRedS: Isn't the login using a launchpad account?
[12:36] <BigRedS> yeah
[12:36] <BigRedS> something else in the software centre wanted a software centre account, I must've conflated the two
[12:36] <popey> it's an Ubuntu SSO account really
[12:37] <popey> not a launchpad account
[12:37] <BigRedS> Heh, the software centre is not responding...
[12:37] <popey> but if you've been around a while then it's technically your launchpad account which was migrated to an Ubuntu SSO account ☻
[14:03] <czajkowski> and there is a difference
[14:03] <czajkowski> if you have a SSO issue the folks in #canonical-isd can help you though
[14:04] <czajkowski> we get lots of confusion as  from an end user point of you can't tell the diference.
[14:34] <dogmatic69> anyone know how I could use terminal to extract the number in "refs/heads/feature/8494-saq-survey"? ...feature/[0-9]+-... would be a good pattern
[14:35] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: extracting the number from a string is easy, yeah
[14:35] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: you going to keep me in suspense? :/
[14:37] <dwatkins> make sure you escape the relevant slashes, but it should be fairly easy, depends on what exactly you're looking for
[14:38] <dwatkins> how are the digits shown in general, for example, and can other digits be present?
[14:41] <shauno> would a blunt sed 's/[^0-9]//g'  work?
[14:42] <dwatkins> shauno: that's why I'm asking, does dogmatic69 mean "remove" or "display only" the numbers
[14:43] <dwatkins> and if there are other numbers present, what should happen with them, nice way to negate the search, though :)
[14:43] <shauno> yeah, I'm skipping a few assumptions :)  'blunt' is my usual methodology.  start with something violently simple, and tune it for why it doesn't work
[14:44] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: get just the numbers in a var
[14:45] <dwatkins> shauno / dogmatic69 - indeed, that may well work, but what if other parts have numbers?
[14:45] <dogmatic69> shauno: that sed does the trick
[14:45] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: doubt it
[14:46] <dwatkins> fair enough, just saying as I've been caught out by sed in this manner before
[14:46] <dogmatic69> its a git branch feature/<ticket_id>-description
[14:46] <dwatkins> it gets as much as it can
[14:46] <dwatkins> and if someone calls a feature "mything123"? ;)
[14:48] <BigRedS> Personally, I'd write a script for it
[14:48] <BigRedS> in something more capable than bash
[14:48] <dwatkins> perl is probably best for this, yeahy
[14:48] <dwatkins> *yeah
[14:49] <BigRedS> yeah, "something more capable than bash" is my current euphemism for "Perl"
[14:49]  * dwatkins grins
[14:50] <shauno> ooh, I didn't know that .. you can use | as a delimiter in sed instead of /
[14:50] <dwatkins> or a hash
[14:50] <dwatkins> I think you can use all sorts of punctuation as delimiters
[14:50] <dogmatic69> if its anything like php you can use whatever you like as a delimiter
[14:50]  * bigcalm does everything in PHP and cares not for sanity
[14:51] <dwatkins> BigRedS: you don't care about your sanity?
[14:51] <bigcalm> Bwuahaha
[14:51] <BigRedS> *I* do. But I don't use PHP
[14:51] <BigRedS> :)
[14:51] <bigcalm> Tab strikes again
[14:51] <dwatkins> hehe
[14:51] <dwatkins> oops, sorry
[14:51]  * diplo has moved from perl to python recently for my scripts
[14:51] <BigRedS> actually, I do use PHP occasionally. But it does drive me bonkers
[14:51] <shauno> how did I live this long without knowing that :/  makes replacing paths a whole lot tidier, because then you don't need \/path\/to\/foo
[14:51] <dwatkins> I clearly havn't used PHP enough to see how insane it is.
[14:52] <dwatkins> shauno: I know the feeling
[14:52] <diplo> much prefering it, only downside I have is that certain features I code for in 6 don't work in centos4/5 :(
[14:52] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, I use hashes by default now. Though (in perl) you do need the m beforehand  -  if ($var m#/some/path/#)  rather than  if ($var #/some/path/#)
[14:53] <BigRedS> dwatkins: my main issue is with all the preg_* functions not being as easy as doing the same thing in Perl
[14:53] <dwatkins> I suspect I should be glad I don't know about this, BigRedS ;)
[14:54] <shauno> my solution to this is simply to not understand how things are supposed to work in perl.  that way I'm not injured when they don't
[14:54] <BigRedS> shauno: yeah, that's why I intend never to go to Ireland and have a Guinness
[14:54] <BigRedS> I'm quite enjoying my ignorance of how much better it is over there
[14:55] <shauno> oh now here's a dirty secret.  I can't tell the difference
[14:55] <BigRedS> haha, I suspect I'd not be able to. But it's not a risk I'm willing to take
[14:56] <shauno> most of it seems to be in guinness having QA chaps in wee vans doing inspections here, so you suffer the wrath of Guinness if your lines aren't clean enough
[14:57] <shauno> ie, good housekeeping, rather than any magical quality inherent to the liquid itself
[14:58] <BigRedS> That sounds like a cushy job
[14:58] <BigRedS> Ah, actually, I guess they don't just spend the day driving from quaint pub to quaint pub tasting a pint at each one
[14:59] <shauno> seriously, these guys are a very common sight here .. http://farm1.staticflickr.com/25/193675508_7511627bb6_z.jpg?zz=1
[14:59] <diddledan> omg, the channel started moving while I wasn't watching
[15:00] <diddledan> how dare you exist outside of my consciousness!
[15:00] <shauno> seems to me they're more likely contributors than the traditional myth/legend
[15:01] <BigRedS> yeah. I do like the notion that it "doesn't travel well" yet seems to make it to anywhere in Ireland fine, but not just across the water to Liverpool
[15:01] <shauno> and last bit before I drop the topic and go back to housework .. if you ever want to fluster an irishman, remind them that guinness (Diego) are a british company ;)
[15:01] <mungbean> diageo
[15:01] <shauno> that's the one
[15:02] <mungbean> boddingtons tasted lovely in manchester. beer snobs in the south don't believe me
[15:02] <mungbean> they will only drink something if its called wagglebadgerfoot
[15:02] <diddledan> I love that one
[15:02] <diddledan> it's very tasty
[15:03] <mungbean> you grow a beard while you drink it
[15:03] <diddledan> I've already got a beard
[15:03] <mungbean> did you drink some?
[15:04] <diddledan> yeah, I really like wagglebadgerfoot, it's awesome
[15:04] <shauno> reminds me of something I came across in slovakia.  beer snobs who have only ever drank pilsners.  shocking
[15:04] <diddledan> wtf?
[15:04] <diddledan> how can you be snobbish over pilsners
[15:04] <diddledan> ?
[15:04] <BigRedS> I've a friend who is
[15:04] <BigRedS> well, he's snobbish about *all* beers
[15:04] <mungbean> german?
[15:05] <BigRedS> including pilsners
[15:05] <BigRedS> nah
[15:06] <mungbean> people get snoobish about everything: coffee, beer, wine, distros
[15:06] <mungbean> irc clients..
[15:06] <popey> irssi!
[15:06] <popey>  /ban *
[15:06] <diddledan> >.<
[15:06] <mungbean> bikes
[15:06] <diddledan> I'm using smuxi atm
[15:06] <mungbean> oh you can't possibly ride THAT bike
[15:07] <BigRedS> I'm an awful bicycle snob :(
[15:07] <diddledan> bike == dyke?
[15:07] <BigRedS> And, er, completely the opposite with motorbikes. I appear to have no standards there
[15:07] <diddledan> lol
[15:07] <shauno> I guess if you're used to bicycles, all motorcycles are default jealousy ;)
[15:07] <mungbean> i like all bikes except for bromptons
[15:08] <BigRedS> Even Dahons? And the cheapo imitations?
[15:09] <mungbean> anything that looks like an adult stole a childs bike
[15:09]  * popey hugs his brompton
[15:09] <mungbean> says the guy who is waiting for his kick scooter to arrive
[15:09] <popey> which he no longer has
[15:09] <BigRedS> Ah, that's BMXes you're think of
[15:09] <mungbean> nah bmxes don't pretend to be anything else
[15:10] <BigRedS> They're kids bikes
[15:10] <BigRedS> adult bikes look the same but aren't built for a child
[15:10] <mungbean> there's a bromptonites bunch at work
[15:10] <BigRedS> at least bromptons have diddy wheels for a sane reason
[15:10] <mungbean> and proprietary everything
[15:10] <BigRedS> the left pedal is pretty standard
[15:10] <diplo> OK, to butt in with a linux based question :)
[15:10] <mungbean> bromptonites at work hang around together to validate their poor choice of bike
[15:10] <popey> yeah, had to have my bedal replaced
[15:11] <diplo> We have maybe 80+ customers
[15:11] <popey> wow
[15:11] <mungbean> you selling bikes diplo ?
[15:11] <popey> thats harsh mungbean
[15:11] <diplo> And we connect to them very insecurely at the moment
[15:11] <diddledan> bah.. loonikes sucks</troll>
[15:11] <mungbean> i'm being tongue in cheek, you just can't see me doing it
[15:11] <popey> riight
[15:12] <diplo> What I'd like to know is, how do others connect to multiple linux boxes with multiple users and manage keys
[15:12] <Laney> i'd use a brompton if i had to commute
[15:12] <popey> diplo: a gateway box
[15:12] <diplo> We have maybe 17 devs that can connect to multiple sites, some use there own machines so could have ssh keys on there
[15:12] <Laney> by public transport
[15:12] <BigRedS> if each customer has several machines, have a bastion host at each site, ssh to that and then on
[15:12] <mungbean> i jape about it to their face, just a bit of banter really
[15:12] <BigRedS> use puppet/chev/scp+cron to distribute the keys
[15:13] <diplo> Mainly a single machine
[15:13] <diplo> I have debated that BigRedS, I'm not the sysadmin, but the guys that are aren't that great :)
[15:13] <diplo> We're a very small company and trying to get them to use best practise etc is proving slow/difficult
[15:14] <diplo> One of my thoughts was to have a single user on a machine that has ssh keys for the customers
[15:14] <diplo> each of devs ssh's to that user and we could then just revoke the key from that authorized_keys
[15:15] <BigRedS> it depends how much you want to split these things up. We all log on as root with passwords to the huge majority of our machines. Internally it's logged who requested the password and when, and we're expected to log what we do. This is only permitted from one host, though, which everyone key-auths onto
[15:15] <BigRedS> it's not so great for auditing, but nor is `sudo su`, and it's a good deal less fragile than it might eb
[15:15] <diplo> yeah pretty much what I was thinking BigRedS, hadn't debated the logging though but also an idea
[15:16] <diddledan> can you store authorized keys in ldap?
[15:16] <diplo> heh, even if you can I gave up on ldap for today.. :D
[15:16] <diddledan> lol
[15:16] <diddledan> I'm going to have to google that now
[15:16] <BigRedS> yeah, knowing that your log-in has been documented is a pretty good incentive to go on to document what you did. Else the next problem is immediately blamed on you when it's checked who was last to fiddle :)
[15:16] <shauno> diddledan: I think that's enough wagglebadgerfoot for you :p
[15:17] <diddledan> >.<
[15:18] <shauno> you can use a different key for each customer though, which gets surprisingly sane once you start using IdentityFile ~/.keys/customer.pem in ~/.shh/config
[15:18] <diplo> One of my biggest issues is this company doesn't document *anything* !!!!
[15:18] <diplo> yeah I do that on my own machine, until I joined everyone was still using telnet :/
[15:18] <BigRedS> haha
[15:18] <diplo> These guys have been doing the same thing for 20 years and it's a pain to get anything to change
[15:19] <diplo> most are old and against it
[15:20] <BigRedS> well, using SSH and passwords isn't *bad*
[15:21] <diplo> We implemented svn just before I joined, apparently there was uproar.. so one of the guys wrapped the commands in bash so it looked like the old way they did things
[15:21] <BigRedS> it's still way better than telnet, for example. And with fail2ban or denyhosts you can make a brute-force attack pointless
[15:21] <diplo> We don't use ssh very much though :/ mainly on new sites where I've been involved.
[15:21] <diplo> I was going to break into a customers site from home to show them how easy it would be..
[15:22] <shauno> I wonder how transparent you could make it with ssh's ProxyCommand directive.  have ssh from the developers box go via a middle-man on your site, have the remote sites only accept connections from the middle-man, and then you've got a central point you can revoke access at, without changing their workflow
[15:22] <diplo> shauno: thats exactly what I was going to try and acheive
[15:23] <diplo> Wasn't sure if it was good practice though
[15:24] <BigRedS> shauno: might be smoothest to configure a VPN, and just mandate that they all connect with that first.
[15:24] <shauno> I think it kinda depends.  if the remote machines only need to accept connections from you, then firewalling ssh down to a single point of entry seems very sane
[15:24] <BigRedS> yeah, I meant have them VPN to your single host, and then ssh from that to the other hosts
[15:24] <BigRedS> rather than proxying SSH
[15:25] <shauno> if they need to accept connections from some vague definition of 'everywhere', you don't save yourself anything because the developers can still connect directly
[15:25] <BigRedS> just that ProxyCommand seems a less-well-tested system than both a VPN and SSH
[15:25] <shauno> ssh can be its own ProxyCommand, which reduces complexity a lot
[15:26] <ali1234> "how do others connect to multiple linux boxes with multiple users and manage keys" - i don't understand the question
[15:26] <ali1234> i just put my public key on the server and then forget about it
[15:28] <diplo> yeah, so I have 80 sites, some with more than 1 machine all with a users ssh pub key on it
[15:28] <shauno> something like "Host Remote, ProxyCommand ssh bastion -W %h:%p", and then 'ssh Remote' will ssh to 'bastion' and from bastion to Remote
[15:28] <diplo> If a member of staff left and the key was from a personal pc he'd still have access to all those customer servers
[15:29] <ali1234> diplo so your question is simply "how to revoke keys"
[15:29] <diplo> Or what is the best set up in that situation, it would be a pain to revoke that many keys and to check them
[15:30] <ali1234> "that many keys" - no, one key
[15:30] <diplo> Which is why I was asking about a single server connection, and we locally ssh to that server via a key, so only one server to revoke from
[15:30] <ali1234> sounds like a plan
[15:31] <ali1234> of course if someone wanted to be malicious they could just install their own keys on the other servers
[15:31] <ali1234> and then avoid the central server
[15:31] <diplo> yeah that is very true.. :)
[15:31] <ali1234> if you try to firewall it then they can set up a reverse tunnel
[15:32] <diplo> not sure they would, but it's just when I set it up I don't want to do it more than once :D
[15:32] <BigRedS> ali1234: only if they could get in to set it up
[15:32] <ali1234> i would probably go for some kind of system where there is a central authorization server
[15:33] <BigRedS> if you have a single server which is the only place SSH to the other servers is permitted from and you deny someone access to that, then they cannot ssh to the other servers
[15:33] <ali1234> BigRedS: if you don't want them to get in then this is not a problem. simply don't issue them any keys or logins at all
[15:33] <BigRedS> no, when you wish to revoke their access
[15:33] <BigRedS> you revoke their access to the bastion (by removing their key, user, whatever) adn then they cannot get to that machine to then get on to the others
[15:34] <diplo> yeah I think accept ssh logins from local network and from one server externally if that's possible
[15:34] <diplo> Right, I'm going to test this out over the next few days with a few customers
[15:34] <BigRedS> then you're asuming they can't get in to the local network
[15:34] <BigRedS> you'd need to have control over teh outermost firewall, really
[15:34] <diplo> Cheers for input guys
[15:34] <BigRedS> (where 'they' is recently-sacked staff)
[15:34] <diplo> We are in control of most of our customers setups
[15:35] <ali1234> BigRedS: i would install a reverse tunnel on the server along with my public key. i can then log in to it even if you revoke my bastion access
[15:35] <popey> that can be prevented in ssh config though can't it?
[15:35] <popey> (setting up tunnels)
[15:35] <popey> or indeed in the firewall
[15:35] <ali1234> who said i would use ssh?
[15:35] <diplo> heh
[15:36] <shauno> do the developers have/need sudo/root on the remote machines?
[15:36] <diplo> yeah occasionally
[15:36] <BigRedS> ali1234: ah, but can be blocked by the firewall
[15:36] <ali1234> you will have to lock down my user account so i can't install any software at all and can't initiate IP connections
[15:36] <diplo> But 90% of the time not
[15:36] <ali1234> or you will have to cnfigure the firewall to prevent any outgoing or incoming connections at all
[15:36] <shauno> was just wondering if making authorized_keys root:root 644 would work.
[15:37] <popey> no, ssh will fail
[15:37] <ali1234> if you do the first thing you might as well not give me access at all
[15:37] <shauno> ssh will fail if your private key is readable, not your public key
[15:38] <ali1234> effectively keeping out rogue admins is pretty hard since they need to be able to do all the things required to install back doors
[15:40] <diplo> The only one person they worried about has gone now, only one they'd need to worry about now is me :)
[15:41] <ali1234> what about is you use this bastion thing combined with an admin-only VPN
[15:42] <ali1234> and some really restrictive firewall rules on that VPN
[15:42] <diplo> I think that's where we need to be yeah
[15:43] <shauno> that depends on what the remote site needs though.  if they'll still allow connections from anywhere, your vpn isn't required
[15:43] <diplo> Some sites have the worst routers, the current support guys leave ports wide open to the net
[15:43] <ali1234> it's all rather pointless if there is only you using it though
[15:43] <diplo> It's just an overhaul we need, going to document and pass on I think
[18:16] <diplo> Anyone else seen this issue http://askubuntu.com/questions/296801/aboutblank-opens-in-chromium-when-i-type-into-the-dash ?
[18:16] <diplo> Quick search on launchpad I've not found anything yet
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> no, but I don't use the dash
[18:16] <diplo> Does it on boot, google trying to auth pops open chormium
[18:17] <diplo> after logging in, but also does it as per that as well
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> I do get an auth popup on login
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> that I don't type my password into because it doesn't identify itself properly (I don't know what I'm authenticating for)
[18:17] <diplo> I've already closed 3 about:blanks, another 3 open and a facebook auth one as well
[18:17] <diplo> yeah, can't say I like the way that works atm
[19:29] <Laney> just dropped a box of 12 eggs
[19:30] <Laney> surprisingly messy
[19:30] <brobostigon> oh dear.
[19:30] <brobostigon> sunny day, scrambled eggs. :)
[19:30] <Laney> luckily it was on a concrete floor in the garage
[19:30] <brobostigon> easy cleanup.
[19:31] <Laney> well they're pretty hard to wipe up
[19:31] <Laney> got up what i could and then dumped a watering can over the rest ...
[19:31] <brobostigon> ah.
[19:49] <AlanBell> evening
[19:49] <brobostigon> evening AlanBell
[20:06] <popey> evening AlanBell
[20:07] <iPenguin> Hello
[20:07] <popey> lo
[20:08] <iPenguin> Is it possible to install ubuntu with using a usb or a disc?
[20:08] <DJones> !usb | iPenguin
[20:08] <lubotu3`> iPenguin: For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
[20:09] <DJones> For a disk, you'd need a dvd to copy the iso to, but yes you can install froma live dvd
[20:11] <iPenguin> This does not help.
[20:12] <czajkowski> iPenguin: in what way doesnt it help?
[20:12] <iPenguin> I found it now.
[20:13] <iPenguin> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/install-ubuntu-with-windows
[20:15] <iPenguin> If i install ubuntu after i used the windows installer would xp be swiped off the system?
[20:17] <DJones> iPenguin: If you mean using the wubi installer, then no, that creates a fake file system within windows to run Ubuntu from, but its not intended for long term use, its more for people just wanting to try Ubuntu before installing it properly
[20:17] <AlanBell> iPenguin: no, it should shrink xp and let you install alongside it (if you have enough space, and enough partitions)
[20:17] <iPenguin> What happens if i install it properly from the windows boot?
[20:19] <AlanBell> so, do you know how your disk is partitioned at the moment?
[20:19] <AlanBell> is there a recovery partition etc?
[20:19] <AlanBell> there can be problems if it has been set up with 4 primary partitions (because that is the limit)
[20:20] <AlanBell> if there are fewer then you are OK as it can create secondary partitions (it needs 1 primary partition to put all the secondary partitions in)
[20:21] <AlanBell> so unless your manufacturer has been obnoxious and used 4 primary paritions you will be fine, it will be able to shrink the windows stuff and create linux partitions alongside, then on bootup you will get a menu that lets you choose which operating system to start
[20:38] <diddledan> evening
[20:39] <diddledan> popey: I've google+'d you some photos of my macbook
[20:47] <popey> ooh
[20:47] <popey> you sure?
[20:48] <diddledan> I think so?
[20:48] <popey> i see no notifications or owt
[20:50] <diddledan> oddness
[20:51] <popey> very
[20:51] <popey> i see them now
[20:51] <mungbean> the eagle has landed \o/
[20:52] <mungbean> watching it)
[21:16] <redtap|away> daftykins: You about ?, ping .
[21:19] <redtape|renegade> AlanBell: I thought you were in Wales this week ?
[21:25] <redtape|renegade> OT | What is a Mozspace, and why should I care ? .. https://wiki.mozilla.org/IRC#Commonly_Used_Mozilla_IRC_Channels
[21:25] <redtape|renegade> Apparently there's one in london  ( ? )  http://thenextweb.com/uk/2012/03/23/a-look-inside-mozillas-new-london-co-working-space/
[21:31] <diddledan> cool. now to make one happen in basingstoke :-p
[21:32] <redtape|renegade> diddledan: I guess it's a hackspace with an identity.
[21:32] <diddledan> looks friendly and welcoming
[21:32] <redtape|renegade> mm.. orange is a nice colour, i guess.
[21:34] <redtape|renegade> Why do they always have to be in the center of a city .. why not on the way to the airport etc ?
[21:35] <redtape|renegade> diddledan: I went to a FOSDEM talk with a key mozilla dude, and it all seemed very corporate to me, not a hacking community, per se.
[21:36] <diddledan> hmm
[21:36] <redtape|renegade> I know they are open, but I think it's not *that* 'open'.
[21:37] <redtape|renegade> most people are switching to chrome anyhow .
[21:37] <redtape|renegade> What do you use ?
[21:38] <diddledan> I'm a chromatic
[21:38] <shauno> I think firefox needs to go on a diet :/
[21:38] <redtape|renegade> I use firefox because it's just easier to download youtube videos etc .. but i use chrome when i need to get a good upload going ..
[21:40] <redtape|renegade> If only someone would actually make the 'thumbs-up-facebook-button' blocker extension, people would really have a reason to use it.   .. the hardcore users, that is
[21:41] <redtape|renegade> I'm just stuck with ABP and no script for now .. sigh.
[21:44] <redtape|renegade> shauno: Anything good on then  box, over there ? I hear there was a RTE documentary on nurseries that got ppl talking.
[21:44] <shauno> I don't watch a whole lot of TV, really
[21:44] <redtape|renegade> oh yes, i forgot ..
[21:44] <shauno> especially RTE.  I tend to avoid those, just because they make me irate about my €160 licence
[21:45] <redtape|renegade> fair enough.
[21:47] <redtape|renegade> shauno: I have to say, Galway has been quiet, or at least I haven't heard much from there, recently, .. much going on ?
[21:47] <shauno> dunno, I live on the internet :)
[21:48] <shauno> no volvo race this year, which has been the big noise the last few summers
[21:48] <redtape|renegade> iron man ?
[21:49] <shauno> I think that's later in the year.  I stumbled upon a couple of years ago, and would have been early august
[21:50]  * redtape|renegade is looking for a travel partner, but does know where to look .. :(
[21:50] <redtape|renegade> **doesn't know where to look..
[21:53] <shauno> I gotta say it bothers me that firefox was meant to be the 'reboot' because mozilla had turned into a meandering behomoth.  and is now considerably larger than mozilla ever was
[21:54] <redtape|renegade> OT | Anyone felt the quake today ? http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/experts-say-quake-aftershocks-likely-in-coming-days-595954.html
[21:57] <redtape|renegade> Funnily enough, I was awake at the time, but felt sod all ; due to not giving a ..
[21:59] <redtape|renegade> probably because I was playing Quake III at the time >_<
[21:59] <shauno> I can't say the earth's moved for me recently either
[22:00] <diddledan> I felt the earth move.. I had beans last night
[22:00] <redtape|renegade> they always seem to happen in the morning too .. strange that.
[22:01]  * redtape|renegade is still looking out for daftykins .. somewhere on the loose.
[22:04] <redtape|renegade> OOh got a good website ( like finding an old friend :) ) Some good links there ... http://techrights.org/2013/05/29/fedora-19-previews/
[22:06] <shauno> I mostly travel to visit friends now.  it's a bit more boring in some regards, but a lot more interesting in others
[22:10] <shauno> the biggest downside is that I have itchy feet, and keep looking at jobs in bizarre countries
[22:10] <redtape|renegade> shauno: Whereas, I travel 'cos I want to see something different that you can't really get a proper feel for on the internet .. like Cornwall.
[22:12] <shauno> that's where visiting people really works out.  you get to see a lot more with a local, instead of just driving around in circles until you end up drinking scrumpy jack on a tiny beach that'll kill you if you don't get off it at the right time
[22:12] <redtape|renegade> yeah, been there before ..
[22:13] <redtape|renegade> I suppose I should try to find my couchsurfing P/word again ..
[22:14] <redtape|renegade> I just don't like putting that type of pressure on people, for me to stay with them :/
[22:14] <shauno> I'm really curious about moving east, but I can't get my head around the difference in pay rates
[22:14] <redtape|renegade> east .. like Dulwich east or wat ?
[22:14] <shauno> lol
[22:15] <shauno> a little further than that
[22:15] <shauno> stredná európa type east
[22:16] <diddledan> you will go playing doctors with foreigners!
[22:16] <diddledan> it's your own fault
[22:16] <redtape|renegade> Oh, central europe .. https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stredn%C3%A1_Eur%C3%B3pa
[22:17] <redtape|renegade> whoops
[22:17] <shauno> that's the one :)
[22:17] <shauno> crazy language, but I'm trying.  I just look like an idiot whenever I actually try to use it
[22:18] <shauno> it's amazing how quickly conversations diverge from beginners vocab.  it's never anything like it is in the books
[22:19] <shauno> chap on the plane asked me how long the flight was.  told him three hours.  so he said something to the effect of "oh, we arrive at 2pm".  told him no, 1pm.  whereupon I realised I can barely explain timezones in english, let alone slovak
[22:19] <diddledan> lol
[22:20] <redtape|renegade> My pizza guy is from Bulgaria .. he says you can buy a house for £5K (in Bulgaria) .. but after a week the Gypsie's sense a disturbance of a newcomer in the force, wait till you pop out for the milk ; then pinch your furniture .. lol
[22:20] <diddledan> o_O
[22:20] <redtape|renegade> lets see if he's right, then ..
[22:21] <shauno> it's not quite that low in slovakia, but still .. it's very odd trying to consider job postings for roughly a third of what I'm making here
[22:21] <shauno> it'd almost help if they weren't on the euro, so my head would quit trying to draw direct comparisons
[22:23] <redtape|renegade> mm Bulgarian Property : Cheap, but is it legit /  [ http://bit.ly/Zu8Ngw ]
[22:24] <shauno> bulgaria seems a bit too remote to actually relocate to.  perhaps for a vacation property, but not somewhere to live & work
[22:26] <shauno> I've more been looking for cities that have a decent number of multinationals looking for a cheap workforce.  more likely to find tech work that is happy to take english-speaking that way
[22:28] <shauno> eg, bratislava has places like dell, ibm, at&t, novell, amazon, even msft .. where even the locals are expected to speak english at work
[22:29] <shauno> I'm all in favour of learning the language, but I'd rather not have to depend on it for work.  that's a pretty unachievable timeframe
[22:30] <redtape|renegade> shauno: All I recall from Slovakia is there's too many swinger parties :)
[22:31] <shauno> "too many"?  ;)
[22:31] <shauno> they've struck me as pretty conservative so far
[22:32] <shauno> and very family-centric.  even in the cities, most seem to keep strong connections with family in towns & villages, and still take the trek out for family pig-kilings
[22:34] <shauno> (it's "a thing".  they have a few "things" I don't quite understand yet.  like whipping their women to celebrate easter)
[22:35] <redtape|renegade> oh dear, it's all gone a bit /Borrat/
[22:35] <shauno> well, I doubt many countries understand gloucestershire cheese-rolling either.  we all have "things" that look bizarre
[22:36] <diddledan> my thing definitely looks bizarre
[22:36] <diddledan> wait, what?
[22:36] <diddledan> tmi?
[22:37] <shauno> or morris dancers
[22:40]  * redtape|renegade still still doesn't ' get ' Chris Evans ^_^
[22:40] <shauno> being british is hugely entertaining, but it doesn't make us the best judges of what's actually "normal".  we have men in plaid skirts who laugh at the germans for wearing leather pants
[22:40] <redtape|renegade> yeah.
[22:41] <shauno> the scottish national dress is worryingly similar to irish catholic school uniforms
[22:42] <redtape|renegade> shauno: On a lighter note .. I've been listening to 2XM for 3 months solid now on VLC / streaming .. and It's a great RTE station, for me. :::: http://icecast1.rte.ie/2xm
[22:42] <shauno> besides.  pigs taste good.  true story.
[22:43] <diddledan> pigs' fat tastes amazing when cooked right
[22:44] <redtape|renegade> must be the doughnutz .. lol.
[22:47] <redtape|renegade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA_Tl1kvlQU : tonites' topic..
[22:51] <shauno> this was the one that made me o_O  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5_dPOj86FA   but little things like having carp for christmas dinner still strike me as odd too (and that you're meant to bring it home alive and keep it in the bathtub)
[22:54] <redtape|renegade> i like the way they celebrate it with a photo .. very telling.
[22:55] <redtape|renegade> wow.. i just realized to the right/options .. there's a lot of them, like that .. :)
[22:56] <shauno> indeed
[23:02] <shauno> anyway, enough babbling from me.  suffice to say I find it fascinating.
[23:12]  * redtape|renegade opens a beer .. to end the day :D
[23:28] <redtape|renegade> shauno: Are there any IRC channels that people of Ireland use , other than #ubuntu-ie ?
[23:32] <shauno> no idea, to be honest
[23:33] <shauno> I know the local hackerspace have #091labs, but I haven't been in there, so I couldn't tell if how trafficked it is
[23:33] <shauno> but for the most part, freenode tends to be by subject, rather than geography
[23:36] <redtape|renegade> i clicked the #0911labs channel .. only two people on it !
[23:38] <redtape|renegade> and no 'topic' to talk of ! even worse.
[23:40] <shauno> no idea if they actually use it, besides the obvious (1am)