[12:01] <jdub> AHR
[12:02] <jdub> GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!
[12:02] <thom> https://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-September/msg00575.html
[12:02] <thom> good evening jeff
[12:02] <mdz> AHR is right
[12:04] <jdub> thom: interesting
[12:04] <jdub> thom: MLP!
[12:05] <jdub> thom: bet they're pleased to see cachefs ;)
[12:08] <seb128> hello jdub
[12:08] <mdz> anyone here with >1 sound card?
[12:08] <seb128> not me
[12:10] <jdub> yo seb128
[12:12] <Mithrandir> I have one at home, but I'm at my gf's, so I won't be able to test in less than ~18 hours.
[12:23] <lamont> bdale: that's what I'd use
[12:25] <lamont> thom: interesting
[12:27] <thom> g'night
[12:28] <mdz> night
[12:42] <lamont> kinnison: it's not _RC8_, it's Sounder 8.. :-)
[12:44] <Clint> virtual console capture device
[12:44] <Clint> and vcsa is attributes
[12:44] <lamont> anyone want to play with the new and improved postfix postinst before I upload?
[12:44] <bdale> lamont: thanks, I'm never sure what to do with debian-only version numbers...
[12:45] <lamont> bdale: it's really a question of whether or not the previous version was an NMU..
[12:45] <lamont> can't use a non-native version,because tar.gz != orig.tar.gz...
[12:46] <lamont> Clint: ok.  and udev createing/removing them is probably xlock's doing?
[12:50] <elmo_mf> hey, couple of questions - aren't we meant to have some ssh-askpass-gnome love kick in automatically?
[12:50] <mdz> it's installed with Desktop, so yes
[12:50] <jdub> not automatically at the moment, it's not in the session
[12:51] <jdub> if you put 'ssh-add' into your session programs, it will run at startup
[12:51] <mdz> jdub: he said ssh-askpass-gnome, not ssh-add
[12:51] <jdub> same thing
[12:51] <mdz> er, no
[12:51] <mdz> ssh-askpass-gnome should be used automagically whenever stdin is not a tty
[12:51] <jdub> ssh-add runs ssh-askpass-gnome when run without a tty, right?
[12:51] <jdub> yes
[12:51] <jdub> that's what ssh-add does
[12:51] <mdz> ssh-add, ssh, scp, ...
[12:51] <mdz> they all do
[12:51] <elmo_mf> and, a) does 'About Ubuntu' work for anyone/is it meant to?, b) What's this 'Start here' icon all about?
[12:52] <jdub> elmo_mf: start here?!
[12:52] <mdz> I haven't seen that in weeks
[12:52] <jdub> elmo_mf: did you just do a fresh install?
[12:52] <mdz> elmo_mf: About Ubuntu opens firefox with no-name-yet in it for me (works)
[12:52] <mdz> (current daily)
[12:52] <mdz> workrave
[12:52] <elmo_mf> oh, and c) is anyone else seeing mozilla-firefox break hideously on initial run?  it asks for a profile, and if I just try to click past it, it says some madness like 'can not use profile 'default' as it's already in use'
[12:53] <elmo_mf> jdub: no, this is my laptop I installed a while ago, but only started really using as a desktop today.. all symptoms have been reproduced after dist-upgrade tho
[12:54] <jdub> elmo_mf: start here was once created by nautilus on first-startup
[12:54] <elmo_mf> actually, scratch (c), can't reprouce that now
[12:54] <elmo_mf> jdub: okay, so won't be a problem for new users and guess there's not much that can be done about it now
[12:54] <elmo_mf> b lah, and (a).. clearly should get some sleep
[12:55] <elmo_mf> mdz: how do you mean not a tty?  like if I used it in nautilus or something?
[12:55] <jdub> elmo_mf: (for instance, if you run ssh-add from the 'run application' dialogue, yeah)
[12:56] <jdub> elmo_mf: (then it will use ssh-askpass-gnome to prompt you)
[12:56] <jdub> elmo_mf: but if you go into the sessions dialogue, you can set it to run ssh-add when you start gnome
[12:56] <elmo_mf> ah, ok.. I thought it might do it the first time I tried to ssh somewhere which would accept the key
[12:56] <elmo_mf> that'd be kind of nice?
[12:57] <jdub> hrm
[12:57] <jdub> well, if you're doing that, you've got a tty ;)
[12:57] <jdub> or you're using ssh: or scp: in nautilus
[01:01] <lamont> elmo_mf: mf??
[01:01] <lamont> oh.
[01:02] <elmo_mf> mark's flat
[01:03] <lamont> yeah - took me a minute to remember the word for 'house'. :-)
[01:06] <elmo_mf> I just unpassworded the wiki and added wiki.ubuntu.com - can someone checks both the old version (pref with uname/pword)  and the new one works, pls?
[01:08] <jdub> elmo_mf: can we rename it to 'Ubuntu Wiki'?
[01:08] <elmo_mf> jdub: where?
[01:08] <jdub> the title of the wiki
[01:09] <jdub> it's in the configuration file
[01:09] <lamont> elmo_mf: just wget'ed both http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrontPage and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>just fine
[01:10] <elmo_mf> lamont: cool, thanks
[01:10] <elmo_mf> jdub: k
[01:11] <elmo_mf> jdub: done
[01:12] <mdz> elmo_mf: like if you use cvs-over-ssh from in emacs vc mode
[01:12] <jdub> elmo_mf: thanks
[01:15] <sabdfl> thom: samba?
[01:16] <mdz> elmo_mf: will you have a chance to process pending Debian syncs soon?
[01:16] <lamont> )*&(%^*(_+&(%^+&_b metacity stealing _*(%^)_^+*(%*^+)&+_)( focus.
[01:17] <mdz> so far I have only two bits of feedback about the alsa unmuting thing
[01:17] <mdz> I'd like to get that in for preview if possible, so please test it
[01:18] <seb128> The accepted messages are sent on uploader and maintainer email ? I got mails on my canonical and debian email and I've used the canonical one for these uploads (I'm the debian maintainer for these packages)
[01:18] <lamont> mdz: so what's the correct and current way to build a new kernel and have grub switch to that?
[01:19] <mdz> lamont: ls -1vr
[01:19] <lamont> le huh?
[01:19] <mdz> that's the sort order it uses
[01:19] <elmo_mf> mdz: err, anything other than gsfonts?
[01:19] <elmo_mf> seb128: yes, if they're both in the whitelist
[01:19] <seb128> ok
[01:20] <mdz> elmo_mf: not that I see
[01:20] <seb128> I was just wondering why I got dup of the messages
[01:20] <seb128> that's it :)
[01:20] <seb128> thanks
[01:20] <lamont> make-kpkg built <IP_ADDRESS> (as kernel-image-<IP_ADDRESS>), and <IP_ADDRESS>-2-686 is the first in your list..
[01:21] <jdub> http://artofcode.com/fontfocus/
[01:21] <jdub> ^ *WOW*
[01:21] <jdub> that is magnificent
[01:22] <elmo_mf> mdz: done - didn't do it at the time 'cos it hadn't hit ftp.uk
[01:23] <mdz> elmo_mf: thanks
[01:23] <jdub> Setting up samba-common (3.0.7-1ubuntu1) ...
[01:23] <jdub> /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.config: line 140: syntax error near unexpected token `fi'
[01:23] <jdub> /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.config: line 140: `fi'
[01:23] <jdub> dpkg: error processing samba-common (--configure):
[01:23] <jdub>
[01:23] <jdub> mdz ^ this known?
[01:23] <mdz> jdub: not to me
[01:24] <mdz> *COUGH*thom*COUGH*
[01:24] <mdz> jdub: I think thom's gone to bed, in which case please just fix it
[01:24] <sabdfl> yeah, it just bit me too
[01:25] <jdub> ahr, cock, big package
[01:25] <sabdfl> jdub: is that font tech open source?
[01:25] <jdub> sabdfl: they're considering some kind of release
[01:25] <sabdfl> ok, i can relate :-)
[01:25] <sabdfl> bbiab, off to test mdz's sound settings
[01:26] <mdz> lamont,jdub,seb128: does the unmuting script work for you guys?
[01:26] <jdub> about ubuntu isn't wokring
[01:26] <seb128> jdub: gnome-open http://www.google.com works ?
[01:27] <seb128> mdz: not tested it
[01:27] <jdub> $ gnome-open http://www.google.com/
[01:27] <jdub> Error showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location.
[01:27] <jdub>
[01:27] <jdub> could be a problem with my settings
[01:27] <lamont> mdz: subject on the mail?
[01:28] <seb128> jdub: apparently ... fresh install ?
[01:28] <mdz> lamont: Subject: Initial volume settings - please test! (Re: Release8
[01:28] <lamont> jdub: is there any building/etc that happens between gnome-release and ubuntu-release?
[01:28] <lamont> or is it all already in the can ?
[01:28] <jdub> seb128: fixed by unb0rking preferred applications :)
[01:29] <seb128> ok :)
[01:29] <jdub> lamont: it's mostly in the can, i haven't really gone through gnome stuff yet
[01:30] <elmo_mf> GAR, I would bribe someone so much money to hax0r gtk.org and make emacs keybindings the default
[01:31] <elmo_mf> so, anyway, home.ubuntu.com exists - Mark'd like that used for the 'about ubuntu' thing - it's a low TTL CNAME to www.no-name-yet.com ATM
[01:31] <lamont> mdz: for testing, will my reboot suffice to kill things to a happy state, if I login via text console when i get to gdm???
[01:31] <lamont> :-)
[01:31] <mdz> elmo_mf: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205
[01:31] <jdub> elmo_mf: seb can you make that change in gnome-panel?
[01:31] <jdub> seb128: i'll do firefox/ephy
[01:31] <mdz> lamont: if and only if you do not have any mixer settings saved
[01:32] <mdz> which is unlikely if you have shut down the machine cleanly
[01:32] <mdz> by default, alsa-base saves the mixer settings on shutdown and restores them on reboot
[01:32] <seb128> jdub: I'll do the change in panel 2.8 when it'll be out
[01:32] <jdub> seb128: ok
[01:32] <seb128> probably tomorrow
[01:32] <mdz> what we need is the behaviour when the module is first loaded, and no settings have been saved
[01:32] <lamont> mdz: and we're running post-restore?
[01:32] <seb128> I'm almost in sync with today releases, time to sleep soon :)
[01:32] <mdz> lamont: if you have shut down the machine cleanly, you most likely have saved settings which were restored when you rebooted
[01:33] <lamont> ah, so reboot, login text mode, rmmod, modprobe, run the script?
[01:34] <mdz> lamont: I wrote instructions in the mail, yes
[01:34] <mdz> no need to reboot unless you want to
[01:34] <mdz> reloading the module is sufficient
[01:34] <lamont> mdz: rebooting for the other thing.
[01:35] <lamont> figured I'd kill two birds with one stone, since logging out is about the same pain level as rebooting...
[01:35] <mdz> jdub: I'm especially interested in Apple systems, since they seem to have different mixer behaviour
[01:35] <jdub> mdz: hrm, will upgrade willow now
[01:35] <mdz> jdub: no need to upgrade
[01:36] <mdz> I haven't uploaded anything yet, because I'm waiting for more testing
[01:36] <mdz> I gave instructions on the sounder list
[01:37] <mdz> Clint: around?
[01:37] <elmo_mf> ohoh, I remembered e)
[01:38] <sabdfl> mdz: great hack on the sound front, works perfectly here
[01:38] <elmo_mf> WTF does pbbutonsd think it's cool to dim my fricking screen even when I'm on AC ?
[01:38] <mdz> sabdfl: great; I'm hoping to slip it in for preview
[01:38] <elmo_mf> (and does it for anyone else?)
[01:38] <sabdfl> jdub: any benefit to gnome-alsamixer?
[01:38] <sabdfl> mdz: agreed, no-brainer
[01:38] <mdz> elmo_mf: hmm, you have a powerpc machine, mind testing the unmute script?
[01:39] <mdz> the G4 is the only machine so far where it doesn't do the right thing
[01:39] <mdz> it's no worse, of course
[01:39] <elmo_mf> mdz: sure one sec
[01:40] <jdub> sabdfl: no, it's gross
[01:40] <jdub> sabdfl: 2.10 will have a shiny new mixer
[01:40] <sabdfl> jdub: ok, take your word for it :-)
[01:41] <elmo_mf> mdz: hmm, I have sound compiled in :-/
[01:41] <elmo_mf> maybe I should just dogfood our kernels
[01:41] <mdz> elmo_mf: rm /var/lib/alsa/asound.state && reboot :-)
[01:41] <jdub> elmo_mf: i disabled the dimming thing at one point
[01:41] <mdz> elmo_mf: maybe??
[01:50] <lamont> mdz: so is aplay supposed to hang?
[01:50] <mdz> lamont: well, no
[01:50] <mdz> lamont: did your sound work before you tried the experiment?
[01:50] <lamont> well, let me rephase that... I'm still waiting for a prompt after running it...
[01:50] <lamont> mdz: yep
[01:51] <mdz> lamont: which sound driver?
[01:52] <mdz> lamont: is this a recent install, or upgraded from very old warty?
[01:52] <lamont> and totem runs fine.
[01:52] <mdz> if it's an old install, make sure you don't have /etc/rc?.d/*discover
[01:52] <lamont> sounder 3, IIRC.  upgraded this AM
[01:52] <mdz> ah
[01:52] <mdz> you probably have discover running at boot
[01:52] <mdz> which causes all sorts of sound driver evil
[01:52] <lamont> loaded: snd_intel8x0 snd_ac97_codec snd_pcm_oss snd_mixer_oss snd_pcm snd_timer snd_page_alloc snd_mpu401_uart snd_rawmidi snd_seq_device snd
[01:52] <lamont> sound works in totem, btw
[01:53] <mdz> rm /etc/rc?.d/*discover && reboot
[01:53] <mdz> lamont: lsmod | grep i810_audio?
[01:53] <lamont> more /etc/rcS.d/S36discover
[01:53] <lamont> /etc/rcS.d/S36discover: No such file or directory
[01:53] <lamont> no output from that grep
[01:54] <mdz> lamont: apt-get install sox and try play(1)
[01:54] <lamont> that was how I got sound working before...
[01:54] <lamont> grumble
[01:55] <mdz> aplay works for me
[01:55] <mdz> and happens to be in base
[01:55] <mdz> it uses the ALSA API, while play uses OSS
[01:57] <lamont> doesn't play anything either.  nor does it exit.
[01:58] <debianist> mdz : driver install didn't work :(
[01:58] <lamont> OTOH, totem plays dvd's just fine.
[01:58] <mdz> debianist: context?
[01:58] <mdz> lamont: perhaps you have esd running
[01:58] <mdz> which has the sound device open
[01:58] <mdz> causing other processes to block
[01:58] <lamont> yep.
[01:59] <jdub> mdz: #1208 please
[01:59] <mdz> jdub: sprinkled
[02:01] <lamont> well,very loud sound, but that could be totem's doing?
[02:01] <mdz> lamont: if you perform the test as specified, you will not be logged into GNOME, and so no other applications will be messing with the sound device
[02:02] <jdub> http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=8255
[02:02] <jdub> 'Finally more information about Canonical/Warthogs/Ubuntu/whatever! I hope the zdnet article is correct and it is actually *released* on Wednesday and not just a slideshow. Been dying to try this out for a long time now.'
[02:02] <lamont> ah, sorry.  I read 'log back in' to mean "into gnome"
[02:03] <mdz> lamont: ok, my instructions sucked then
[02:03] <mdz> anyway, if totem played sound at a reasonable volume, that tells me what I needed to know
[02:03] <mdz> jdub: if it doesn't break willow, I'm going to ship it. any luck there?
[02:04] <jdub> mdz: been fixing bugs
[02:04] <jdub> mdz: give me a minute :)
[02:05] <mdz> jdub: oh, I thought you were reading osnews.com :-)
[02:05] <Kamion> miaow
[02:05] <jdub> gotta check old tabs during uploads ;)
[02:06] <mdz> Kamion: morning
[02:06] <jdub> GAR my upstream bandwidth is shite
[02:06] <jdub> stupid samba
[02:06] <mdz> Kamion: wanted to ask you...what's the status of restricted support in germinate/debian-cd/...?
[02:06] <jdub> my entire change amounts to one '#'
[02:06] <jdub> and i have to upload megs and megs of shite
[02:07] <Kamion> mdz: should all be there
[02:07] <jdub> can we dodge that damage in future, pre-hct?
[02:07] <Kamion> mdz: you'd need to ask elmo whether he runs germinate over main+restricted+universe though
[02:07] <mdz> Kamion: so I can add linux-restricted-modules-<IP_ADDRESS> to DesktopSeed and it ought to work?
[02:07] <mdz> Kamion: elmo is hiding
[02:07] <Kamion> mdz: last I heard, germinate on jackass ran over main+universe, but that was before restricted was implemented
[02:08] <Kamion> mdz: yes, it definitely should, I think I've updated everything; if not, give me a shout, it'll be a five-minute job to fix
[02:08] <mdz> perhaps sabdfl can throw something at him :-)
[02:08] <Kamion> I'd rather you did that tonight so tomorrow's dailies will be testable
[02:08] <mdz> Kamion: would you be interested in a test build if i do it now, or wait for the next daily?
[02:08] <Kamion> mdz: can do
[02:08] <mdz> hmm
[02:08] <mdz> actually, this stuff should probably be in base, should it not?
[02:08] <elmo_mf> kamion: I ignore restricted atm for germinate
[02:08] <sabdfl> i threw something at him but it just bounced
[02:09] <lamont> well, the speakers are powered... maybe that explains the loud initial volume.  But it's _definitely_ not muted...:-)
[02:09] <mdz> lamont: as long as it's somewhere >= silent and < ears bleeding, I'm happy
[02:09] <sabdfl> night all, mdz call coming up now
[02:09] <lamont> < bleeding, but definitely present
[02:10] <elmo_mf> so, hmm, 3 things: a) our <IP_ADDRESS> and/or hotplug doesn't recognise my powerbook's sound card.. self-built 2.6.9-rc1 does, but ISTR 2.6.8 did too when I self compiled..
[02:10] <Kamion> elmo_mf: mdz wants to add something in restricted to the desktop seed; can we get jackass to add the Task: ubuntu-desktop field to it so that it gets installed?
[02:11] <elmo_mf> b) with 2.6.9-rc1, my "muted" alsa isn't actually, well, muted.   but mdz, your unmute script works and makes the volume louder
[02:11] <elmo_mf> c) our <IP_ADDRESS> has broken caps lock on powerpc kernels - can I send a patch to herbert/you to see if we include it by default?
[02:11] <elmo_mf> kamion: hmm, ok
[02:12] <elmo_mf> (sorry, c) was aimed at/should be prefixed mdz:)
[02:12] <Kamion> I should move the default wiki location in germinate ...
[02:12] <Kamion> for values of "broken" meaning broken for weird people who switch caps lock and control :)
[02:13] <Kamion> (not to discourage anyone from fixing it though, it does sound like a bug)
[02:13] <lamont> mdz: no joy with the patch reverted.
[02:14] <elmo_mf> kamion: dude, it doesn't work period.. even if you don't want to switch caps/control
[02:14] <debianist> mdz : actually , i just rebooted after the driver install -  no sign for the module, acceleration not working.
[02:14] <Kamion> elmo_mf: uh, really?
[02:14] <elmo_mf> kamion: yes, try it
[02:14] <Kamion> elmo_mf: obviously I haven't done enough editing in it ...
[02:14] <debianist> mdz : and i'm still on 2.6.7 , i thought it was supposed to upgrade it to 2.6.8 for the nvidia drv to work..am i wrong?
[02:14] <Kamion> bah, ok, that's a bit showstopperish
[02:15] <elmo_mf> kamion: patch is fairly hackish and needs conditionalized at the very least, but it Works For Me(tm)
[02:16] <debianist> doko : here?
[02:18] <debianist> mdz : could you give me lamont's and doko's email addressed? i am sending my sec repot
[02:19] <debianist> mdz : *report
[02:20] <lamont> debianist<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:20] <lamont> but I could be misspelling that
[02:21] <debianist> ok, i have another address for dokok
[02:21] <elmo_mf><EMAIL_ADDRESS>works
[02:22] <elmo_mf> kamion: any ideas on the sound card thing?  does sound work for you?
[02:25] <elmo_mf> hmm, looking like a hotplug bug - modprobing snd-powermac fixes it
[02:32] <mdz> Kamion: will you be around for a bit? still on the phone
[02:33] <Kamion> elmo_mf: did last time I installed warty on the powerbook, running Debian at the moment though
[02:33] <Kamion> mdz: I'll be around until c. 2:15/2:30
[02:33] <Kamion> uh
[02:33] <Kamion> it's now 1:33, for timezone reference
[02:36] <debianist> mdz<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[02:39] <mdz> debianist: yes
[02:39] <elmo_mf> hmm, it's not a PCI device - that'd probably be why - does hotplug have support for random non-{pci,usb,isa} type things?
[02:39] <mdz> alsa-driver uploaded with unmuting magic
[02:39] <debianist> mdz : oh already sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:40] <debianist> anyway, the wiki doesn't require user and password anymore?
[02:40] <mdz> elmo_mf: hotplug supports /etc/hotplug*.agent types of things
[02:40] <mdz> hotplug does not support the crazy apple bus yet, as far as I am aware
[02:41] <mdz> elmo_mf: please file the caps lock thing in bugzilla and assign to Herbert
[02:41] <mdz> debianist: yes, you need to run the <IP_ADDRESS> kernel
[02:42] <Kamion> mdz: hm, in fact I need to make germinate on little run over main+restricted ...
[02:42] <debianist> mdz : i think i've noticed dpkg doing just that, it upgraded the kernel
[02:43] <Kamion> debianist: wiki> no
[02:43] <mdz> debianist: thanks for the report, so there were only two which need further investigation?
[02:43] <debianist> mdz : however, i have 3 ubuntu's on this machine - and the one i wanted to have nvidia support, didn't update
[02:43] <elmo_mf> mdz: would some sort of /proc/cpuinfo based powerbook.agent hack be a reasonable stopgap ?
[02:44] <lamont> mdz: found why we die...
[02:44] <lamont> cdrom_open_write never actually tries to do the open..
[02:44] <debianist> mdz : yes. i couldn't determine about them
[02:44] <mdz> elmo_mf: probably the most reasonable fallback for Warty would be to avoid the kernel entirely and let d-i/hwdetect add it to /etc/modules
[02:44] <debianist> mdz : actually i think the glibc is fixed, however couldn't supply the proof
[02:44] <Kamion> yarr, more hw-detect hackery :)
[02:45] <elmo_mf> mdz: dude, that means it's kamion's problem.. result ;-)
[02:45] <mdz> gross hacks r us
[02:45] <elmo_mf> anyway, rebooting to a caps-lock-enabled kernel before I hulk smash the keyboard in frustration
[02:46] <debianist> anyways, i'm going to bed now - another day of throrough testing - tommorow! :)
[02:46] <lamont> you mean he _WANTS_ capslock?
[02:46] <lamont> how strange.
[02:46] <Kamion> lamont: like all right-thinking people
[02:46] <lamont> when would you use it?
[02:46] <debianist> mdz : please let me know of anything else regarding the report, i'd love to know and drill down more if you'd like.
[02:47] <debianist> good night everybody
[02:47] <mdz> night
[02:47] <Kamion> lamont: any time I'd otherwise be holding down the shift key :)
[02:47] <debianist> remian on guard ;)
[02:47] <Kamion> lamont: you're a vi user aren't you?
[02:47] <mdz> Kamion: do you  know what elmo's caps lock complaint is about?
[02:48] <mdz> I haven't heard that from any other powerpc types so far
[02:48] <Kamion> mdz: afraid not, will test it first thing tomorrow
[02:48] <mdz> it works for me (desktop, USB keyboard)
[02:48] <mdz> sounds like a powerbook thing
[02:49] <Kamion> I'm very surprised I haven't noticed it
[02:49] <Kamion> but I haven't tried to do a great deal of development on warty/powerpc so it's possible I missed it
[02:51] <mdz> Kamion: can you point me in the right direction for getting hotplug firmware loading working in d-i?
[02:53] <Kamion> mdz: put the firmware on a partition you can mount from the installer
[02:53] <Kamion> mdz: run up to partitioning, ignoring network failures
[02:53] <Kamion> mdz: on tty2, mount the partition you put the firmware on, and copy it to /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/
[02:53] <Kamion> mdz: probably copy the relevant kernel modules to the right place as well
[02:54] <Kamion> mdz: then go back to the d-i main menu and retry the "detect network hardware" step, and see if it works at all
[02:55] <mdz> Kamion: what would be the best way to convince it to let me set a console keymap?
[02:55] <jdub> mdz: back
[02:55] <jdub> mdz: now i can't get anything but static out of it... grr. rebooting.
[02:56] <mdz> ah, answer: chroot into the root filesystem and use loadkeys :-)
[02:57] <mdz> hmm
[02:57] <mdz> Kamion: there is no /sbin/hotplug
[02:57] <Kamion> mdz: /bin/hotplug-pcmcia, it's set as the hotplug handler for brief periods
[02:57] <mdz> and sys.kernel.hotplug still says /sbin/hotplug
[02:57] <mdz> ah
[02:57] <Kamion> only if you have pcmcia though, which is one of the reasons I suspect my patch is broken
[02:58] <mdz> hey, the firmware loading code in there looks totally reasonable
[02:58] <mdz> I bet it works
[02:58] <Kamion> it probably will do if it's called :)
[03:00] <elmo_mf> there's not going to be 'restricted' udebs is there?
[03:01] <jdub> mdz: okay, verified - works fine, and an appropriate volume
[03:02] <Kamion> elmo_mf: um, not yet
[03:02] <Kamion> elmo_mf: wouldn't rule it out though ...
[03:02] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, so if I tweak all the right knobs, it works
[03:02] <Kamion> elmo_mf: but anna can't load udebs from multiple Packages files anyway
[03:02] <elmo_mf> meh, well, when there is let me know, 'cos they won't work
[03:03] <mdz> jdub: thanks, uploaded
[03:03] <Kamion> so the CDs would have to do some evil hacks and netboot almost certainly wouldn't do the right thing
[03:03] <elmo_mf> mdz/jdub: new alsa-utils pulled in dialog - ok for main?
[03:03] <Kamion> elmo_mf: yeah, my changes to cdimage don't know about the idea of restricted udebs, although it would be a one-line change to add
[03:04] <mdz> elmo_mf: for base, you mean?
[03:04] <Kamion> mdz: starting a new CD build now to see what happens
[03:04] <elmo_mf> mdz: well that too
[03:05] <Kamion> elmo_mf: isn't whiptail enough for it?
[03:05] <mdz> wait, how is it that dialog isn't in main?
[03:05] <mdz> if it depends on it?
[03:05] <Kamion> Depends: [...] , dialog | whiptail # in Debian
[03:05] <mdz> alsa's deps haven't changed recently
[03:06] <Kamion> ... and in warty for that matter
[03:07] <Kamion> mdz: uh, how were you planning on getting linux-restricted-modules installed as part of base?
[03:07] <mdz> Kamion: debootstrap, presumably?
[03:07] <Kamion> mdz: debootstrap can't install it because debootstrap (rightly) doesn't install kernels
[03:07] <mdz> gar
[03:07] <Kamion> it's base-installer's job to pick the right one
[03:08] <mdz> well, there are kernels in BaseSeed
[03:08] <Kamion> debootstrap doesn't install those either, they're explicitly excluded
[03:08] <mdz> so you're already coping with that somehow, yes?
[03:08] <elmo_mf> err, I think this is germinate going nuts again, blah
[03:08] <elmo_mf> all I did was add restricted, damn it
[03:08] <Kamion> base-installer installs the kernel separately; it has to be this way because otherwise you get shit like power3 kernels accidentally ending up as /boot/vmlinux on powerpc, which is bad
[03:09] <mdz> right
[03:09] <mdz> so can it add the corresponding linux-restricted-modules for whichever kernel it finds?
[03:09] <jdub> crap!
[03:09] <Kamion> so it'll have to be taught about linux-restricted-modules; file a bug and I'll look at that tomorrow ...
[03:09] <mdz> ok
[03:09] <jdub> mozilla-firefox is 41MB
[03:09] <Kamion> jdub: you so need a local mirror
[03:10] <jdub> Kamion: i've been getting by with an apt-proxy
[03:10] <jdub> i originally thought a full mirror would be silly
[03:10] <jdub> but
[03:10] <Kamion> if one person in Oz has one then everyone else can mirror off them :-)
[03:10] <jdub> that might not be the case ;)
[03:10] <jdub> haha
[03:10] <jdub> stfu :)
[03:10] <Kamion> admittedly I have the luxury of being in the same country as the master site, which is a nice change
[03:11] <jdub> how big is the main archive now?
[03:11] <elmo_mf> 23Gb, 17Gb without universe
[03:11] <jdub> (and restricted)
[03:11] <jdub> good lord
[03:11] <Kamion> $ du -s /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main
[03:11] <Kamion> 5870052 /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main
[03:12] <Kamion> $ du -s /mirror/ubuntu/pool/restricted
[03:12] <Kamion> 18228   /mirror/ubuntu/pool/restricted
[03:12] <elmo_mf> err, sorry 17Gb _LESS_ without universe
[03:12] <jdub> oh, that sounds better
[03:12] <Kamion> elmo_mf: I was about to say :)
[03:12] <tvon> Yall know samba-common.config is busted?
[03:12] <jdub> tvon: fix was uploaded a few moments ago
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: which package provides hotplug-pcmcia?
[03:12] <tvon> jdub: spiffy
[03:12] <Kamion> mdz: something in the ddetect source, hw-detect I think
[03:12] <jdub> SPIFFY INDEED! :)
[03:13] <jdub> today is very spiffy
[03:13] <tvon> hah
[03:13] <tvon> spiffy keen
[03:13] <elmo_mf> kamion: ok, so, like I add restricted but nvidia foo isn't in the desktop seed yet... according to this crackful run of germinate
[03:13] <jdub> spiff-o-licious
[03:13] <Kamion> elmo_mf: -> mdz I guess, not sure what the Plan is there
[03:13] <mdz> nvidia foo isn't supposed to be in the desktop seed yet
[03:14] <mdz> I think it'd be pretty crackful to swap out our preferred X driver 2 days before preview
[03:14] <jdub> yeowch
[03:14] <jdub> unpacking mozilla-firefox made my lappy hang for about 15 seconds
[03:14] <elmo_mf> mdz: ok, I just got the wrong impression from earlier then, that's fine
[03:14] <elmo_mf> jdub: is DMA turned on ? :)
[03:15] <jdub>  UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
[03:15] <lucas_> hi
[03:15] <Kamion> mdz: you have new CDs with restricted stuff on them now
[03:18] <Kamion> oh yes
[03:18] <Kamion> mdz, jdub: a friend of mine (also a sounder) wanted to interview me about Ubuntu for a LUG radio thingy, possibly on Wednesday, possibly later
[03:19] <Kamion> mdz, jdub: is Wednesday too soon, and if not is there anything in particular you want me to say / not say? :)
[03:19] <jdub> Kamion: what time? :)
[03:19] <Kamion> UK daytime I suppose, dunno exactly
[03:19] <jdub> lucas_: hi
[03:19] <Kamion> I've been slack about getting back to him
[03:20] <jdub> Kamion: post lunchtime would be ideal :)
[03:20] <Kamion> haha, you expect me to have time to give radio interviews *before* lunchtime on release day? :)
[03:20] <jdub> ;)
[03:20] <Kamion> is the release time UK lunchtime then? I'd better get up super-early on Wednesday
[03:20] <jdub> it's not like you're on the release critical path or anything, mister cd man! ;)
[03:21] <jdub> Kamion: approx 1400 UTC, will confirm later
[03:21] <Kamion> I think I must own at least one of the Big Red Handles
[03:21] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[03:22] <Kamion> anyway, K's here, night all
[03:22] <jdub> night dude
[03:23] <jdub> sleep well :)
[03:24] <Kamion> elmo_mf: hm, p.s. any chance of a Contents file for debian-installer somewhere
[03:24] <Kamion> ?
[03:27] <elmo_mf> sure
[03:27] <elmo_mf> kamion: but not tonight, i'm passed the point where I wish I had an  AI to auto-lock me out of my accounts :)
[03:27] <elmo_mf> but I don't have that, so I'll go to bed instead.. night all
[03:57] <jdub> boh
[03:57] <jdub> i changed one line in mozilla-firefox
[03:57] <jdub> and the diff is 29K larger
[03:57] <tvon> heh
[03:58] <tvon> wicked one liner?
[03:58] <jdub> default homepage ;)
[03:58] <tvon> heh
[03:58] <tvon> Hey, speaking of which...not that I'm not busy enough as it is, but my normal area of expertiese is web stuffs.  Is anyone thinking about a "real" homepage?
[03:58] <jdub> plus all sorts of whacky binary changes it can't diff properly -> huh?
[03:59] <jdub> tvon: yes, in the pipeline
[04:01] <daniels> elmo_mf: PING
[04:01] <tvon> meanwhile I'm sitting here breaking the UserLinux website...
[04:08] <lamont> Kamion: yes, vi not emacs
[04:09] <mdz> daniels: he's gone to sleep
[04:12] <lamont> gpg
[04:12] <lamont> main(): could not install capabilities: Operation not permitted
[04:12] <lamont> sigh.  what'd I do now?
[04:14] <mdz> there was a bug like that which was fixed months ago
[04:15] <mdz> lamont: modprobe capability, perhaps
[04:16] <lamont> but it mandates puking
[04:17] <daniels> mdz: ahr
[04:18] <lamont>         else if (CDROM_CAN(CDC_MO_DRIVE))
[04:18] <lamont>                 ret = mo_open_write(cdi);
[04:18] <lamont> +       else if (CDROM_CAN(CDC_RAM))
[04:18] <lamont> +               ret=0;
[04:18] <lamont> mind you, that's the _WRONG_ patch...
[04:19] <mdz> justdave: ping
[04:20] <mdz> lamont: the growisofs code makes baby jesus cry
[04:20] <mdz> who would have thought that something so simple on the outside could be so gnarly on the inside
[04:20] <lamont> mdz: this is cdrom.c
[04:20] <lamont> mdz: evolutionary growth, I expect.
[04:20] <lamont> basically, my drive doesn't match _ANY_ of their checks...
[04:23] <lamont> _WHY_ does it throw away all my work if I accidentaly wind up clicking on a link, or hitting return at the wrong time, or whatever...
[04:23] <lamont> )&%$*_$%*&+)(+}{
[04:24] <daniels> mdz: how about, say, changing keyboard layouts in x? not too hard, no?
[04:28] <mdz> daniels: X defines gnarly
[04:29] <daniels> gnarly as in a counterpart to rad, or nasty?
[04:30] <justdave> mdz: pong
[04:30] <mdz>   gnarly
[04:30] <mdz>
[04:30] <mdz>           <jargon> /nar'lee/ Both obscure and {hairy}.  "{Yow}! - the
[04:30] <mdz>           tuned {assembler} implementation of {BitBlt} is really
[04:30] <mdz>           gnarly!"  From a similar but less specific usage in surfer
[04:30] <mdz>           slang.
[04:30] <mdz> justdave: is it possible for you to expedite my request to change my email address in bugzilla?
[04:30] <justdave> yeah, it didn't go through or something?
[04:30] <mdz> I don't see why it should wait for days, considering I confirmed it
[04:30] <mdz> Confirmed email address<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:30] <mdz> Completion date: 	2004-09-17 03:16:00
[04:31] <justdave> it should happen immediately when you confirm it
[04:31] <justdave> are you logging in with the new address?
[04:31] <justdave> (and it's mailing there?)
[04:31] <justdave> what's it show next to the logout link in the footer?
[04:32] <lamont> justdave: pardon my frustration, bntw.
[04:33] <justdave> my guess is because we're on https
[04:33] <justdave> I've been noticing that, too, bugzilla.mozilla.org doesn't do that
[04:33] <justdave> Firefox is doing something screwy with the cache or something
[04:33] <tvon> Is 'print' working for everyone for taking screenshots?
[04:34] <tvon> nm, upstream
[04:38] <tvon> hrm....or not
[04:42] <justdave> are their alternatives to the terminal server client that's default in Warty?
[04:43] <mdz> justdave: ah, it lists the new address in the footer
[04:43] <mdz> justdave: so it's actually complete already, despite the future "completion date"?
[04:43] <justdave> mdz: you should be set then.  the "completion date" is when it becomes permanent.
[04:43] <mdz> I see, weird
[04:43] <justdave> until then, you can still cancel it with the link sent to the old email address.
[04:43] <justdave> and it will revert to the old address.
[04:44] <jdub> justdave, mdz: possibility of doing a WartyWarthog -> Ubuntu product name migration?
[04:45] <justdave> Are we going to make a new product for HoaryHedgehog?
[04:45] <mdz> no problem on my side; I just need to synchronize it with a change in debzilla
[04:45] <jdub> justdave, mdz: i'd like to start putting milestone targets on bugs, which will make slightly more sense if we do that
[04:45] <mdz> justdave: no, I don't expect so
[04:45] <jdub> justdave: no
[04:45] <justdave> that'd probably confuse things too much.  That's what RedHat does though.
[04:45] <justdave> I don't know how they live with it :)
[04:46] <mdz> justdave, jdub: so, regarding bugzilla for the preview release.  the simplest solution would seem to be to set bug-buddy aside for the moment and replace it with a menu item which points a browser at bugzilla.ubuntu.com.  does that sound doable to you guys?
[04:48] <justdave> oh, now that makes sense. :)  Probably less confusing, too, because bug-buddy still have a heck of a lot of gnome-specific stuff in it, even when we feed it our component list
[04:49] <justdave> only problem is bug-buddy comes up when a gnome app crashes
[04:49] <lamont> how much more churn will we have before release, I wonder...
[04:49] <lamont> (that is, is seb just about done?)
[04:49] <justdave> I haven't looked at 2.8 yet, I saw it come down tonight
[04:50] <mdz> justdave: presumably it wouldn't do that if we stopped installing it in desktop
[04:50] <justdave> the one I'd hacked up locally was 2.72 or something I think
[04:51] <jdub> mdz: hrmphmrrmrrmph, yeah, okay. :|
[04:51] <justdave> I am pretty close to having the HTTP-submit working though
[04:51] <mdz> jdub: do you have a better suggestion?
[04:51] <jdub> mdz: nup, that's a good way out.
[04:51] <justdave> bug-buddy thinks it's sendmail, but the script it calls posts it instead of mailing it.
[04:51] <mdz> we have 36 hours
[04:52] <lamont> mdz: I see you revisited the buglist...
[04:53] <justdave> which I need to look at 2.8 now and see whether it's changed too much from 2.7.x
[04:53] <jdub> mdz: appropriate to keep it on track for final, though?
[04:53] <mdz> jdub: sure
[04:53] <mdz> jdub: what looks like the right solution for final?
[04:54] <mdz> this sendmail-to-http gateway?
[04:54] <mdz> or the XML-RPC bit you guys were talking about?
[04:54] <jdub> xml-rpc won't be ready
[04:54] <jdub> sendmail-to-http sounds pretty good
[04:55] <mdz> bug-buddy is great for GNOME, but it doesn't allow the user to report bugs against, say, firefox presently
[04:55] <lamont> Setting up tetex-base (2.0.2b-4) ...
[04:55] <lamont> /var/lib/dpkg/info/tetex-base.postinst: line 1: kpsewhich: command not found
[04:55] <justdave> it'd be nice to teach bug-buddy how to do http itself, but that's probably about as involved as the xmlrpc
[04:55] <lamont> ew
[04:55] <jdub> mmm, it just doesn't have a lot of distro integration hooks
[04:55] <jdub> easy enough to do
[04:55] <jdub> (you can just add/remove sources it grabs info from)
[04:55] <justdave> teaching bug-buddy how to do direct SMTP might be nice, too
[04:56] <justdave> to keep the offline folks happy
[04:56] <mdz> bugzilla.no-name-yet.com, or bugzilla.ubuntu.com?
[04:56] <jdub> mdz: doesn't look like any of the major severity bugs warrant raising to me - agree?
[04:56] <mdz> the latter doesn't seem to exist yet, but presumably elmo could do that trivially
[04:57] <justdave> does bugzilla.ubuntu.com work?  if so, let's use it.
[04:57] <mdz> it doesn't work yet
[04:57] <mdz> but it could be set up easily tomorrow
[05:01] <mdz> ok, I noted the tasks in bugzilla
[05:03] <jdub> mdz: wrt menu item, aren't we just pushing it out into supported?
[05:04] <jdub> mdz: oh
[05:04] <jdub> you also want a browser too
[05:04] <jdub> yeah
[05:04] <jdub> hrrrrm
[05:04] <jdub> doesn't make sense to do that in bug-buddy
[05:04] <jdub> hrm
[05:05] <jdub> mdz: perhaps we can just ensure that we have a sensibly obvious link to bugzilla from home.ubuntu.com?
[05:15] <mdz> jdub: it'd be nice to have a menu item, and then when we switch to using bug-buddy, users already know where to go
[05:16] <mdz> jdub: is it inconvenient to do or something?  I thought it was trivial
[05:17] <jdub> mdz: well, if we don't install bug-buddy, we don't have a menu item
[05:17] <jdub> mdz: so i'd have to install a desktop file somewhere
[05:17] <mdz> jdub: bug-buddy-lite :-)
[05:17] <jdub> unless you're happy with crash reports going to gnome
[05:18] <mdz> if gnome is happy for crash reports to go to gnome...
[05:18] <jdub> which is okayish, but useless for upstream without debugging symbols
[05:18] <jdub> well
[05:18] <mdz> they're often useless for us without debugging symbols, too
[05:18] <jdub> quick hack: shift bug-buddy to supported, add a .desktop file to ubuntu-artwork
[05:18] <mdz> unless they're reproducible by one of us
[05:19] <jdub> super -dbg availability would be k-rad
[05:19] <jdub> anyway
[05:19] <jdub> i have to settle down and write for a while
[05:20] <jdub> majorplus bugs are looking okayish
[05:25] <mdz> yeah, is debzilla broken or something?
[05:26] <mdz> I've seen hardly any RC bug reports from Debian recently
[05:26] <mdz> sounders and staff are generating more bug reports than Debian
[06:00] <lamont> http://lists.quaker.eu.org/pipermail/kdedevelopers-feed/2004-August/000084.html
[06:02] <lifeless> mdz: are you interested in sleep-problems on my laptops?
[06:08] <fabbione> morning
[06:08] <daniels> fabbione: morning dude
[06:21] <fabbione> mdz on which arch did the test fail?
[06:26] <fabbione> daniels: i need to upload an ubuntu17 asap
[06:26] <fabbione> do you have any patches for me?
[06:29] <daniels> fabbione: what's in ubuntu17?
[06:29] <daniels> i have no patches for today, no
[06:30] <fabbione> X ubuntu17
[06:30] <fabbione> apparently the FB detection isn't working as it should
[06:31] <daniels> ah yeah
[06:31] <daniels> i haven't got any framebuffer stuff, so I haven't been able to look at the problem
[06:32] <mdz> fabbione: amd64
[06:32] <mdz> lifeless: not for warty I'm not :-)
[06:32] <mdz> fabbione: let me know if you need more info or a test
[06:32] <fabbione> mdz: i think the fix is simple
[06:32] <lifeless> mdz: say when, and I'll start filing them. I've two different laptops here that don't.
[06:33] <fabbione> case "$ARCH" in
[06:33] <fabbione> alpha|hurd-i386|i386|amd64)
[06:33] <fabbione>     USE_FBDEV=false
[06:33] <fabbione>     ;;
[06:33] <fabbione>   *)
[06:33] <fabbione>     USE_FBDEV=true
[06:33] <fabbione>     ;;
[06:33] <fabbione> esac
[06:33] <fabbione> if [ -e /proc/fb ] ; then
[06:33] <fabbione>   FB_TYPE="$(grep '^0 ' /proc/fb | sed 's/[^[:space:] ]  //')"
[06:33] <fabbione>   # did we actually get back anything?
[06:33] <fabbione>   if [ -n "$FB_TYPE" ] ; then
[06:33] <fabbione>     if echo "$FB_TYPE" | grep -Eiq '(OFfb|VESA)'; then
[06:33] <fabbione>       USE_FBDEV=false
[06:33] <fabbione>     else
[06:33] <fabbione>       # other framebuffers do support UseFBDEV
[06:33] <fabbione>       USE_FBDEV=true
[06:33] <fabbione>     fi
[06:33] <fabbione>   fi
[06:34] <fabbione> fi
[06:34] <fabbione> mdz: can you tell if that one work as expected?
[06:35] <fabbione> because the second part of the code should not even been entered with an empty FB
[06:35] <mdz> fabbione: it would do the right thing for me
[06:35] <fabbione> mdz: that's correct
[06:35] <mdz> right, apparently it defaulted to true
[06:35] <fabbione> amd64 has to be treated as i386
[06:35] <mdz> that doesn't look quite right though
[06:35] <fabbione> why?
[06:35] <mdz> wouldn't that cause USE_FBDEV=true in some cases when /proc/fb doesn't even exist?
[06:36] <fabbione> you mean adding a else at the end if proc/fb doesn't exist,,
[06:36] <fabbione> hmmm sounds right
[06:37] <fabbione> good point
[06:37] <mdz> why does the architecture matter?
[06:37] <mdz> shouldn't we use fb if it is there, and otherwise not?
[06:37] <whiprush> hey so with this canned invitation we can invite lots of people right?
[06:38] <fabbione> mdz: i don't remember all the reasons behind it. This is old code from Overfiend
[06:38] <fabbione> mdz: i know that for instance sparc needs FB
[06:38] <fabbione> let me check the templates...
[06:39] <fabbione> no it doesn't say
[06:39] <jdub> whiprush: invite some friends along ;)
[06:39] <whiprush> okey dokey.
[06:39] <jdub> whiprush: but probably not a LUG list or anything
[06:39] <mdz> jdub: did you forget to upload the fix for #1209?
[06:39] <whiprush> ok
[06:40] <jdub> mdz: hrm, i thought that was accepted
[06:40] <m_tthew> jdub: I just encountered with an update&&upgrade about 10 minutes ago
[06:40] <fabbione> mdz, jdub: can i upload X later today? i am going with this FB fix and a couple of cosmetic fixes to the FAQ from trunk
[06:40] <m_tthew> "the bug I mean
[06:40] <mdz> jdub: it's not in the pool
[06:41] <jdub> fabbione: see the process reqs
[06:41] <mdz> ooh
[06:41] <mdz> jdub: source is there, but no binaries
[06:41] <fabbione> jdub: ?
[06:41] <jdub> aha
[06:41] <mdz> lamont has gone to sleep and elmo is not awake yet
[06:41] <mdz> jdub: you uploaded a long time ago, no?
[06:41] <jdub> fabbione: preview freeze upload requirements on sounder list
[06:41] <lamont> mdz: 1215 is warty
[06:41] <jdub> mdz: yeah
[06:42] <mdz> lamont: yay, you're awake
[06:42] <mdz> lamont: what's up with the samba build?
[06:42] <jdub> lamont: are you really comfortable with the postfix changes you made?
[06:42] <mdz> fabbione: yes, the FB fix is critical for preview
[06:43] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[06:43] <mdz> documentation fixes are OK as well
[06:43] <fabbione> mdz: oky
[06:44] <lamont> Sep 14 01:44:55 buildd-mail: Error: Bad keyword in answer samba_3.0.7-1ubuntu2
[06:44] <mdz> lamont: eek, so no builds signed for a while?
[06:45] <fabbione> ah cool
[06:46] <fabbione> so now.. i am going to upload X in like 20 minutes
[06:46] <fabbione> and nobody will test it until a few hours that elmo show up
[06:46] <jamesh> anyone want to test out my battstat applet patch?  I don't have any binaries though.
[06:47] <mdz> lamont: thanks for checking it out; hope it doesn't keep you up too far past your bedtime
[06:47] <lamont> so did chinstrap throw a fit?
[06:47] <lamont> no, just sluggish.
[06:47] <lamont> damn arch
[06:47] <mdz> lamont: capabilities b0rkage is local to you, right, not on elmo's end?
[06:48] <mdz> fabbione: what are you going to do about #929?
[06:48] <mdz> I have no problems with the nv driver
[06:49] <lamont> I fixed the other 9 while I was there...
[06:49] <lamont> :-(
[06:49] <lamont> well, total of 10 $arch.changes files
[06:49] <fabbione> mdz: daniels and i are working on backporting the nv driver from x.org
[06:49] <mdz> lamont: future builds will be content?
[06:49] <lamont> jdub/mdz: samba should be there (the mirror) in about 15 minutes.
[06:50] <jdub> cool, ta
[06:50] <lamont> mdz: remember when I bitched about gpg missing capabilities?
[06:50] <mdz> lamont: yep
[06:50] <lamont> everything in that timeframe
[06:50] <fabbione> mdz: neither do i.. check the BTS. there are at least 3 or 4 reports related to the same problem
[06:50] <mdz> lamont: #1213
[06:50] <lamont> and nothing since I did the modprobe
[06:50] <lamont> added to /etc/modules
[06:51] <lamont> mind if I upload a new gpg tomorrow, if pitti doesn't beat me to it?
[06:52] <mdz> lamont: I think he probably will, since he'll be awake soon, but sure
[06:52] <mdz> lamont: you should only need to revert the debian/rules and debian/control changes
[06:52] <lamont> cool.  and I'll close 1209 in the morning if jdub doesn't beat me to it...
[06:53] <lamont> tripped over 1215 while I was trying to verify 792 (which I can't...)
[06:54] <lamont> have we set a time tomorrow for the upload moritorium?
[06:55] <mdz> no
[07:24] <jblack> looking at www.babytux.org/articles/howto/how2livecd.php...A live cd of warty could be cool...
[07:26] <lamont> jblack: uh, we have one of those...
[07:29] <jblack> geesh. nobody tells me anything.
[07:30] <jblack> Ok. Thanks.
[07:30] <lamont><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:31] <lamont> err, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fLiveCD
[07:31] <jblack> Got it.
[07:31] <lifeless> jblack: its in the email that jdub sent.. and on the nonameyet wiki
[07:31] <lifeless> :)
[07:31] <lamont> although that page needs to be updated to not point at no-name-yet.com sometime (even though it works...)
[07:32] <jdub> lamont: you can do it!
[07:32] <lamont> jdub: I hope so.  There is precedent...
[07:34] <lamont> activity log sent.  Now I have to go to bed, so tomorrow can start. :-)
[07:34] <lamont> g'night
[07:35] <Mithrandir> lamont: are you filing bugs about the failed amd64 builds?
[07:38] <mdz> jblack: are you not subscribed to the sounder mailing list?
[07:38] <mdz> jblack: that is where these things are announced and discussed
[07:41] <pitti> Morning, guys!
[07:43] <mdz> morning
[07:45] <jblack> mdz: I am.
[07:45] <pitti> mdz: ah, great! gpg finally works without suid; this did not work with upstream <IP_ADDRESS>...
[07:46] <jblack> only been there for 3-4 weeks though
[07:46] <mdz> pitti: right, but Herbert integrated the patch as requested
[07:46] <pitti> mdz: shall I prepare an interdiff for you and elmo to review?
[07:46] <mdz> pitti: I think it should be fine to just revert --with-capabilities (and the build-dep)
[07:46] <mdz> if you want to remove your capabilities-related patches, that is fine too
[07:46] <pitti> mdz: yes, I don't want intrusive changes
[07:46] <mdz> but since it is basically undoing work, it should be quite safe
[07:47] <mdz> if you want to revert it so that it is exactly the same as it was before you touched it, that is fine
[07:47] <pitti> mdz: another thing: my jackd modifications do not really have the desired effect
[07:47] <mdz> your other patches are still valid, but they would not be used anyway
[07:47] <pitti> mdz: jackd has a weird architecture that wants to give capabilities to _client_ threads (insane, but true)
[07:48] <pitti> mdz: so I would like to upload a package with --with-caopabilities disabled and without any suid at all
[07:48] <pitti> mdz: possible?
[07:48] <mdz> pitti: sounds great
[07:48] <pitti> mdz: it's basically the same as with gnupg: just rebuild without the configure flag
[07:49] <mdz> pitti: but jackd wants setpriority(), not mlock(), doesn't it?
[07:49] <pitti> mdz: it wants both. SYS_NICE and IPC_LOCK
[07:50] <pitti> mdz: it wants to lock the memory of the sound buffers, for not allowing it to swap
[07:50] <pitti> mdz: but it also wants to start a new thread in the client player program with these capabilities (ugh)
[07:50] <mdz> SYS_NICE should have a much greater effect than locking the memory
[07:50] <pitti> mdz: I discussed this a while with the Debian maintainer
[07:50] <mdz> for reducing latency
[07:50] <pitti> mdz: yes, I don't want to give it to _arbitrary_ user processes
[07:51] <mdz> pitti: so capabilities are not inherited by threads in Linux?
[07:51] <pitti> mdz: the key is that CAP_SETPCAP is required to give these capabilities to player (client) processes, not just to new jackd instances
[07:52] <pitti> mdz: within one process, all threads of course have the same caps
[07:52] <mdz> pitti: oh!
[07:52] <mdz> that is insane
[07:52] <pitti> mdz: I really mean that jackd gives CAP_* to processes like xmms, rhythmbox e.g.
[07:52] <mdz> I thought you meant the threads which serviced the client
[07:52] <pitti> mdz: not just to other jackd subthreads
[07:52] <mdz> but the client itself, that is insane
[07:52] <pitti> mdz: I also thought this at first
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: that's why the current solution does not work and I want to disable this completely
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: most modern computers should have enough RAM to play well also without realtime caps
[07:54] <pitti> mdz: and according to the debian maintainer, professional sound engineers don't care about the security stuff anyway and will happily install patched kernels :-/
[07:55] <mdz> pitti: they should just run all their applications as root :-)
[07:55] <mdz> from a -19 priority shell
[07:55] <pitti> mdz: gnupg: I would like not to touch the code (the new capability code could stay in), just remove the configure option and the suid flag. Is that okay for you?
[07:55] <mdz> pitti: that is fine with me
[08:00] <pitti> mdz: interdiff for gpg: http://www.piware.de/gpg-nosuid.diff
[08:00] <pitti> mdz: it's trivial, but for the protocol...
[08:01] <mdz> pitti: looks fine
[08:01] <mdz> you could even remove the chmod entirely
[08:01] <mdz> oh, but it doesn't use debhelper
[08:01] <mdz> so safer to leave it in
[08:01] <pitti> mdz: I don't know, it does not use debhelper and dh_fixperms
[08:02] <pitti> mdz: ugh, it FTBFSses
[08:02] <pitti> mdz: obiously my patch did not #ifdef #endif one of the declarations
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: it wasn't even my code that failed. I updated the patch in the above URL, now it builds and works correctly
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: shall I upload?
[08:23] <mdz> pitti: yes
[08:28] <pitti> mdz: done. Now http://www.piware.de/jack-nosuid.diff ;-)
[08:33] <mdz> pitti: it is a bit strange for the binary to be 0754
[08:33] <mdz> it should probably be 0755
[08:34] <mdz> otherwise, looks good
[08:34] <pitti> mdz: it was intended to restrict execution to audio members
[08:34] <pitti> mdz: but of course this could now be changed
[08:36] <mdz> yes, there is no point when it is not setuid
[08:36] <pitti> mdz: I changed it to root:root 755
[08:36] <mdz> sounds fine
[08:37] <pitti> mdz: interdiff is updated
[08:37] <pitti> mdz: just tell me when I shall upload
[08:37] <mdz> pitti: go ahead
[08:38] <pitti> mdz: done
[08:38] <pitti> mdz: then I will deal with the mysql security thingy now
[08:39] <pitti> mdz: this might last a bit, if you went already to bed when I'm finished, can jdub approve the thing or do you want to do this this evening^w^wnext morning?
[08:39] <mdz> pitti: I do not want to be a bottleneck
[08:40] <mdz> jdub should be around
[08:40] <mdz> pitti: you intend to work on fixing security bugs today, yes?
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: yes, same procedure as yesterday (and day before... :-) )
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: I hope to see the results of DSA 2004 today
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: lamont came pretty far, but did not finish yet
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: and sivan's 2002 results still had two todo items
[08:42] <mdz> pitti: for purposes of the preview release, we will limit ourselves to urgent fixes only
[08:42] <mdz> low-impact bugs we can fix after the preview release
[08:42] <pitti> mdz: I agree; the handful of "to be examined closer" items in the wiki aren't showstoppers
[08:43] <pitti> mdz: I discussed with the Debian maintainers about them, some vulnerabilities are still present
[08:43] <mdz> I am not so sure that mysql is serious enough for preview, really
[08:43] <pitti> mdz: e. g. quagga has broken ACL handling, but only few of our users will probably use it :-)
[08:43] <pitti> mdz: up to now its the most serious item on my list
[08:43] <mdz> it is only an insecure temporary file
[08:44] <mdz> and a few even less serious issues
[08:44] <pitti> mdz: if you have more important tasks for me?
[08:44] <mdz> but it should be easy to fix it non-intrusively
[08:45] <mdz> pitti: could you look at #1142?
[08:45] <mdz> also #1187
[08:45] <pitti> sure
[08:46] <fabbione> mdz: X is up
[08:46] <pitti> fabbione: good morning!
[08:47] <mdz> fabbione: thanks, i will test on my amd64 system in the morning
[08:47] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:47] <fabbione> mdz: thanks! in any case it should work
[08:47] <fabbione> mdz: since it uses more sane defaults
[08:47] <fabbione> similar to r1813 on debian-x
[08:48] <fabbione> ok.. let's try to work out the nv driver problem
[08:48] <pitti> mdz: with #1187, I will just take Marco's patch from sid (review it of course)
[08:48] <pitti> mdz: #1178
[08:49] <pitti> mdz: but this bug does not even apply to us, just on 0.031-1
[08:49] <pitti> mdz: we have 0.026
[08:50] <pitti> mdz: grr, wrong bug. sorry.
[09:00] <daniels> mdz: ping
[09:00] <fabbione> daniels: i am working on the nv driver.
[09:00] <daniels> fabbione: is ubuntu17 up yet?
[09:00] <daniels> fabbione: um dude, we're in freeze
[09:00] <fabbione> daniels: yes
[09:01] <fabbione> daniels: it's critical. too many bug reports in debian too
[09:01] <fabbione> i am not sure we can make for the preview
[09:01] <fabbione> but we need to do it for final
[09:01] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, fo'sho
[09:01] <fabbione> i am pretty sure after preview we will receive a bunch of bugs for X to fix anyway
[09:01] <daniels> hm, can't see ubuntu17 up publicly
[09:01] <daniels> yeah
[09:02] <fabbione> daniels: uploaded a few minutes ago
[09:02] <daniels> ahr
[09:02] <fabbione> it will take at least another 30 minutes to be on auckland
[09:02] <mdz> daniels: pong
[09:04] <mdz> fabbione, daniels: do you guys have an idea of the nature of the bug?
[09:05] <mdz> or do we just hope that updating the driver will fix it?
[09:05] <mdz> ok, I need some sleep, back in the morning
[09:05] <fabbione> mdz: there are 2 known problems. one with the hardware mouse and one with the screen getting blank
[09:06] <daniels> fabbione: there are different problems
[09:06] <daniels> er, mdz
[09:06] <fabbione> mdz: i can see the changes to the mouse stuff, but i am not sure what can cause the screen blanking.
[09:06] <fabbione> mdz: the latter is "hope that will fix"
[09:06] <daniels> mdz: ok. but yeah, it's largely impossible to validate nv fixes except via lots of tests, since the driver is stupid
[09:06] <fabbione> mdz: i am pretty sure i can get people to test the new driver before uploading
[09:07] <fabbione> mdz: since i can create a binary only and ask people to test it
[09:07] <fabbione> mdz: so let's see
[09:07] <fabbione>  408 -rw-r--r--    1 fabbione src        413582 Sep 14 07:04 991_ubuntu_update_nv_driver_from_xorg.diff
[09:08] <daniels> good god, that's horrific --
[09:08] <daniels> http://linuxforums.org/forum/images/content/snapshot2.png
[09:08] <daniels> fabbione: not surprised :\
[09:11] <Gman_> daniels, like yast is much better
[09:15] <fabbione> daniels: what about the wacom driver?
[09:15] <fabbione> daniels: if both in debian and here doesn't work properly...
[09:15] <daniels> fabbione: i'll throw you over a source package with ati and wacom stuff later -- i'm back at dad's place now for a bit
[09:15] <fabbione> daniels: we should consider raising the severity
[09:15] <daniels> fabbione: could you please look at xresprobe 0.4.6 at http://fooishbar.org/daniel/xresprobe/ and if it looks good, consider sponsoring it?
[09:15] <fabbione> daniels: just gimme the patches :-) i don't need an entire source tree :-)
[09:16] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[09:16] <daniels> fabbione: no access to them right now, dude ... they're on my home machine, which isn't dialed in right now
[09:16] <daniels> but i'll be back home at about 1000 UTC
[09:16] <fabbione> oky
[09:16] <daniels> maybe a bit later
[09:17] <fabbione> sure
[09:17] <daniels> Gman_: that's total cargo cult usability tho
[09:17] <daniels> Gman_: 'if my control panel looks like OS X, maybe my users will know what "fstab File" means!'
[09:18] <daniels> so they just look unoriginal AND silly
[09:18] <jamesh> and it uses the MacOS logo on all the disk icons
[09:18] <jamesh> that must help too
[09:18] <daniels> yeah, my bad
[09:19] <jamesh> the icon spacing looks pretty weird too
[09:20] <Mithrandir> anybody know of a trivial client-server example using SASL?
[09:23] <lifeless> telnet ?
[09:24] <Mithrandir> hmm, possibly, yes.
[09:24] <Mithrandir> I should take a look.
[09:24] <Mithrandir> silly me. :P
[09:43] <fabbione> ciao ik5pvx :-)
[10:09] <debianist> morning all
[10:09] <pitti_> debianist: good morning!
[10:10] <pitti_> sabdfl: good morning!
[10:14] <fabbione> hey guys
[10:14] <debianist> good morning pitti!
[10:14] <debianist> hey fabbione, more delicious dishes today?
[10:14] <debianist> :)
[10:15] <fabbione> debianist: not yet :-)
[10:15] <fabbione> in a couple of hours or so ;)
[10:15] <debianist> hah
[10:16] <debianist> pitti : ok, what's next? :-)
[10:16] <pitti_> debianist: I'm at backporting the security fixes from mysql
[10:17] <pitti_> debianist: the 2004 DSAs need to be evaluated completely
[10:17] <pitti_> debianist: lamont already started with this, but I don't know about the exact state
[10:19] <debianist> pitti : should I coordinate with him, maybe start down the list until we meet in the middle?
[10:20] <pitti_> debianist: he's currently asleep (I suppose)
[10:20] <debianist> pitti : different time zone? :)
[10:20] <pitti_> debianist: he already processed the list with the help of doko's script
[10:20] <pitti_> debianist: USA west coast
[10:22] <pitti_> debianist: I do have an outstanding task...
[10:22] <pitti_> debianist: see the two courier bugs in the wiki?
[10:22] <pitti_> debianist: can you take a look at this and try to find out the status?
[10:23] <pitti_> debianist: I think we finish the 2004 DSAs when lamont comes back
[10:33] <debianist> piiti : ok, i will try
[10:34] <pitti_> geez, the packaging of mysql is a mess and the security patch is broken
[10:35] <debianist> pitii : mysql is warty main?
[10:35] <pitti_> debianist: yep
[10:35] <pitti_> debianist: #1198
[10:36] <pitti> lulu: howdy
[10:36] <lulu> hiya!
[10:41] <seb128> morning
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: hi!
[10:42] <seb128> hey pitti
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: I found an easy solution for ##1142
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: if you want I can take this bug
[10:42] <seb128> yes please
[10:42] <Kinnison> Morning
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: so you can continue your gnome 2.8 upload berserk mode :-)
[10:43] <pitti> Kinnison: morning
[10:43] <seb128> pitti: yeah :)
[10:44] <seb128> pitti: gnome_cups_spawn() in libgnomecups/gnome-cups-permission.c
[10:44] <seb128> pitti: if you need the function that runs gksudo
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: I actually would like it more to disable this admin button entirely since cups cannot verify the root password anyway
[10:45] <seb128> ?
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: I will see how intrusive that is
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: cupsd does not run in group shadow any more, so it cannot read /etc/shadow
[10:46] <seb128> he can if the administrator decide to change the sudo settings
[10:46] <seb128> oh ok
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: of course, the admin can just put cupsd into shadow, the README.Debian explains that
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: okay, that's a point, I'll leave the button in and just fix the gksudo call
[10:46] <seb128> so perhaps letting the option in the soft is better
[10:46] <seb128> ok
[10:54] <seb128> bad thom
[10:55] <seb128> thom: always dpkg -i package before uploading at least
[10:55] <seb128> that's minimal test
[10:57] <[Bruce] > hello
[10:57] <[Bruce] > i installed ubuntu yesterday (now not running it)
[10:57] <[Bruce] > and had a few issues
[10:57] <_kim> what issues
[10:58] <[Bruce] > i really dont agree with the partitioning config section
[10:58] <cef> heya [Bruce]  , what's the problem?
[10:58] <[Bruce] > i didnt want to change partitioning
[10:58] <[Bruce] > just use an existing partition
[10:58] <cef> so you selected 'edit manually' ?
[10:59] <[Bruce] > but that was hidden well under 'partitioning'
[10:59] <thom> seb128: (the sad thing is, i did. then i redid the patch and didn't bother). gar.
[10:59] <seb128> thom: ah ah :p
[10:59] <[Bruce] > and still aksed me if i want to write my changes
[10:59] <[Bruce] > i have other things, but i have told daniels, so im not sure if im wasting my time
[11:00] <thom> [Bruce] : best to send a mail to the sounder list so everyone can see and talk
[11:01] <[Bruce] > well i havent signed up
[11:01] <[Bruce] > after my experience yesterday im not motivated to do so
[11:05] <jdub> [Bruce] : the partitioner is probably the most tricky part of the install, if you have to do anything special
[11:05] <jdub> [Bruce] : beyond that it's ace! :)
[11:05] <food_Bruce> i wouldnt call that special
[11:07] <cef> food_Bruce: note that the partitioner is the same in Debian Sarge, so it's not like Ubuntu is using anything just specific to it.
[11:08] <sabdfl> lifeless: !!!
[11:09] <lifeless> sabdfl: ???
[11:09] <jamesh> seb128: did you get my email?
[11:09] <seb128> no
[11:10] <seb128> grumpf, I've a problem with my mails
[11:10] <seb128> I never get jdub's one neither
[11:10] <jamesh> okay.
[11:10] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, I don't think your canonical.com is working
[11:11] <seb128> Keybuk: but I get ACCEPTED mail
[11:11] <seb128> and when I mail from here I've no problem, in 5 min I get the mail back
[11:11] <Keybuk><EMAIL_ADDRESS>loops
[11:11] <seb128> oh, I've<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:11] <Keybuk> ah, elmo hasn't updated the sheet then?
[11:11] <seb128> not sure if that replaces the sebastien@
[11:12] <Keybuk> yeah it must have
[11:13] <thom> yeah, it has.
[11:14] <pitti> jdub: here?
[11:14] <Keybuk> people are probably using the canonical address book I did, which would've had the wrong address in it for you
[11:18] <jdub> pitti: yeah
[11:18] <pitti> jdub: I prepared a new mysql-dfsg package (bug #1198), can you please approve it?
[11:19] <pitti> jdub: I just added an interdiff and a comment
[11:19] <jdub> thanks
[11:19] <thom> jdub: thanks for fixing samba :(
[11:20] <jdub> thom: ;)
[11:20] <jdub> thom: stinky hash!
[11:25] <seb128> ARG
[11:25] <seb128> 17 tarballs out now
[11:26] <rburton> go seb128 go
[11:27] <seb128> not easy, I was keeping the control, but marmk just hurt me with a massive bunch of releases :p
[11:30] <Keybuk> I want salty GNOME 2.8 goodness!
[11:30] <rburton> salty?
[11:38] <rburton> wohoo
[11:38] <rburton> new dvd recorder turned up
[11:38] <rburton> seb128: hopefully this will fix my hal problems
[11:38] <seb128> :)
[11:39] <food_Bruce> cef: then my issue is with debian as well
[11:56] <sabdfl> default homepage for our browsers will be home.ubuntu.com for warty
[11:56] <sabdfl> thanks jdub for implementing that on epiphany and firefox
[11:56] <jdub> yes, alrea-- ah
[11:56] <sabdfl> how do you guys feel about having that a simple google-style page
[11:57] <jdub> sabdfl: i've reopened that bug suggesting we have the on-disk page for Final - do you want to do that?
[11:57] <sabdfl> yes
[11:57] <jdub> (once we have the site design, it will be relatively easy)
[11:57] <sabdfl> sorry, brain fart
[11:57] <jdub> ok
[11:57] <sabdfl> hmm... actually...
[11:57] <rburton> with todays ubuntu, hal/pmount did the wrong thing when i put a disk in
[11:57] <sabdfl> About ubuntu should be on-disk html
[11:58] <pitti> sabdfl: I would prefer a local page (like the Debian package of mozilla does), since it does not require net connection
[11:58] <sabdfl> but homepage for the browser makes more sense as a web page
[11:58] <sabdfl> but why would you start a browser without a net connection?
[11:58] <pitti> rburton: that is the wrong thing?
[11:58] <lifeless> sabdfl: because epiphany sucks.
[11:58] <rburton> sabdfl: i often start a web browser to read local documentation
[11:58] <jdub> sabdfl: perhaps they should be the same thing?
[11:58] <pitti> sabdfl: to watch html files, read documentation, watch cups jobs, etc.
[11:58] <rburton> on the train i read the gtk+ docs, python manual, etc etc
[11:58] <lifeless> more usefully when you log out your session is saved... and if the browser is open it reopens.
[11:58] <sabdfl> ok
[11:59] <jdub> lifeless: that's just a bug :)
[11:59] <sabdfl> i suppose we can update that local html with regular updates
[11:59] <jdub> lifeless: and unrelated, silly mans ;)
[11:59] <sabdfl> along with the calendar images
[11:59] <lifeless> the repoening, or the losing-all-your-pages ?
[11:59] <rburton> pitti: i've /dev/hdc /media/cdrom in fstab and hal mounted /dev/hdc on /media/cdrom0
[11:59] <jdub> sabdfl: i suggested to mdz that we put that content in ubuntu-artwork
[11:59] <jdub> sabdfl: for easy branding and so on
[11:59] <sabdfl> ok
[11:59] <sabdfl> yes
[11:59] <sabdfl> alright, i'm happy with this for warty
[11:59] <pitti> sabdfl: hoary could come with a fancy network detection script in the postinst and install a local/webbased homepage based on its outcome
[12:00] <sabdfl> pitti: could be unpredictable
[12:00] <thom> jdub: it's one of the best features of epiphany, you fascist
[12:00] <rburton> gar, i can't burn a cd with 2.6.8-2
[12:00] <pitti> rburton: argh, the symlink hack
[12:00] <thom> (besides the fact it's not firefox)
[12:00] <jdub> (epiphany will probably use networkmanager to detect that in the 2.10 timeframe)
[12:00] <pitti> rburton: however, does it still work that way?
[12:00] <jdub> thom: what, breaking your saved session if you don't have a network connection when you try to recover it?
[12:00] <pitti> rburton: i. e. is it mounted and can you access it?
[12:00] <jdub> thom: that's a bad bug :)
[12:01] <thom> jdub: well, that's a bug in gnome
[12:01] <thom> for not being able to tell :P
[12:01] <jdub> regardless, epiphany shouldn't dump the state when it fails
[12:01] <jdub> you just get a bunch of blank page tabs instead of "couldn't get there" errors with the url saved
[12:01] <pitti> sabdfl: maybe it fails for some people, but if these notice that firefox tries to access a network page, they could change the homepage on their own
[12:02] <thom> jdub: oh, right
[12:02] <thom> ugh
[12:02] <jdub> thom: you seem to be suggesting that my awareness of bugs in epiphany is somehow related to the decision to go with firefox. ;-) i do not endorse this point of view! </quimby>
[12:07] <jdub> elmo: ping
[12:08] <thom> jdub: you're just a mozilla.org lackey
[12:10] <rburton> pitti: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1217
[12:11] <sabdfl> anybody see the kde-port-of-gecko announcement?
[12:11] <jdub> yeah
[12:12] <sabdfl> native gecko, for use in KDE apps
[12:12] <sabdfl> we need the same, really soon, for gnome
[12:12] <jdub> we already have it
[12:12] <cef> yuppers.. will be good once it hits debian of course
[12:12] <jdub> that's what gtkmozembed is
[12:12] <sabdfl> it's not easily usable, is it
[12:12] <jdub> and what epiphany uses
[12:12] <jdub> there are problems with it, but it's not horrific to use
[12:13] <mjg59> The first version of galeon was entirely usable and about 2000 lines of code
[12:13] <pitti> rburton: thanks
[12:13] <mjg59> (Of course, it was massively unstable, but so was Mozilla at that point...)
[12:13] <jdub> sabdfl: simply embedding a browser is not very hard (yelp will use gecko soon), but trying to build a proper, full-featured browser around it is a bit hard, requires lots of integration work, etc.
[12:14] <sabdfl> how much would it cost to develop a clone of firefox in python-gtk with gtkmozembed doing the rendering?
[12:14] <jdub> how much of a 'clone' do you want?
[12:14] <rburton> what i wrong with ephy?
[12:14] <jdub> sabdfl: i think the better strategy would be to improve on what epiphany has already managed to achieve
[12:14] <thom> rburton: jdub hates
[12:15] <mjg59> thom: But we all know that jdub is Australian and therefore wrong
[12:15] <jdub> thom: no, that is wrong, please don't continue saying that
[12:15] <rburton> i don't love but i'm growing to love it.  the one feature i miss i'm this far: |   | from implementing myself
[12:15] <cef> rburton: which feature?
[12:16] <rburton> cef: middle click on new tab button to create a new tab and go to the url in the clipboard
[12:16] <cef> aha
[12:16] <mjg59> Mm. That'd be sort of nice.
[12:16] <sabdfl> epiphany is nice but is too minimalist
[12:16] <cef> yeah I can see how that'd be useful
[12:16] <rburton> galeon does it, and its very handy
[12:16] <mjg59> galeon is a less minimalist epiphany
[12:17] <rburton> with different bookmarks
[12:17] <fabbione> thom: erh... what should i do about it?
[12:17] <mjg59> But manages not to be crackful, unless they've broken it since I last used it
[12:17] <sabdfl> the firefox guys have a very nice balance of functionality in the base vs extensions
[12:17] <sabdfl> bookmarks need to be WAY better
[12:17] <sabdfl> google-style free text search
[12:17] <sabdfl> just bookmark the page and forget about it
[12:17] <sabdfl> to find it, start typing
[12:17] <cef> firefox is just way too heavy though (footprint wise)
[12:18] <sabdfl> that's because of xul
[12:18] <mjg59> sabdfl: In the future there will be Beagle
[12:18] <sabdfl> that's why i want a native clone of firefox
[12:18] <jdub> it's not because of xul
[12:18] <thom> fabbione: is there any more info you need?
[12:18] <jdub> to run gecko, you get all of xul plus the native widget set
[12:18] <fabbione> thom: as many as possible. logs, strace, all the info about the autodetection and so on.. lspci -n
[12:19] <sabdfl> yes but you aren't actually rendering xul unless you do so explicitly, like firefox
[12:19] <fabbione> thom: but it's not critical
[12:19] <sabdfl> anyhow guys, that's a fantasy discussion for another time and channel :-)
[12:19] <jdub> sabdfl: every widget in the browser pane is rendered using the same system xul is
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: I lied a little while ago: gnome-cups-manager's become admin button does work
[12:19] <Keybuk> mjg59: unless nat gets distracted by something shinier <g>
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: it does not send root's password to cupsd, but becomes root to be able to read the cups certificate
[12:20] <jdub> sabdfl: xul is just glorified xml+html+javascript
[12:20] <pitti> seb128: so, everything is alright :-)
[12:20] <jdub> (in terms of rendering)
[12:20] <seb128> pitti: ok, nice
[12:20] <cef> hey does ubuntu have a method to add java support to firefox? ie: a package or whatever?
[12:20] <sabdfl> system yes, but if you don't use it it doesn't suck ram
[12:20] <jdub> sabdfl: whether you're using firefox or ephiphany, you're using xul
[12:20] <jdub> firefox and ephiphany are very comparable in terms of resources
[12:21] <jdub> which points to a lot of optimisations to be made on the firefox side ;)
[12:21] <fabbione> elmo: ping
[12:21] <sabdfl> jdub: dude, xul will never be as slick for menus, dialogs etc as native
[12:22] <mjg59> Keybuk: Thankfully, it's mostly trow working on it
[12:23] <fabbione> elmo: X ubuntu17 isn't in the archive yet.. do we know if it is a FTBFS or something else?
[12:23] <jdub> sabdfl: if you mean not having exactly the same behaviour, that's definitely true
[12:30] <cef> ho hum
[12:30] <jdub> fabbione: there have been some build issues
[12:30] <jdub> fabbione: sources go in, binaries don't turn up, etc.
[12:35] <fabbione> jdub: ok.
[12:37] <cef> bbk
[12:42] <rburton> i get ":-( unable to PREVENT MEDIA REMOVAL: Operation not permitted" when i try and burn a dvd
[12:42] <rburton> i take it i need to be root to burn
[12:43] <rburton> or should this work?
[12:44] <pitti> rburton: I suppose this should actually work as user
[12:44] <pitti> rburton: it works for normal cd-r (at least for me)
[12:44] <cef> same here
[12:44] <rburton> ah my cdrecord isn't suid root
[12:44] <rburton> i guess it should be
[12:45] <pitti> rburton: my cdrecord isn't as well
[12:46] <pitti> rburton: does it work if you execute the burning program with sudo?
[12:46] <pitti> rburton: (or, just add the suid to cdrecord, for that purpose)
[12:51] <rburton> pitti: hm, still doesn't work
[12:57] <SteveA> I just upgraded using apt, rebooted, and oddly now sound doesn't work.
[12:58] <SteveA> a bunch of alsa modules seem to be loaded
[01:05] <thaytan> hi guys
[01:05] <jdub> hey thaytan
[01:06] <thaytan> I'm just trying to spot a netboot image to feed my tftp monster
[01:06] <jdub> Kamion: ping?
[01:06] <fabbione> hi thaytan
[01:07] <pitti> jdub: do you think you can approve #1142 today?
[01:07] <fabbione> thaytan: i am using it with no problem.. do you need a url?
[01:07] <jdub> pitti: checking
[01:07] <thom> fabbione: i wouldn't mind one ;-)
[01:07] <thaytan> fabbione: please
[01:07] <thaytan> I can't spot it on ftp
[01:08] <fabbione> sure
[01:08] <jdub> pitti: heh 8)
[01:08] <fabbione> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/daily-installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[01:08] <fabbione> thom: they have been there for ages ;)
[01:09] <fabbione> thaytan: you will need pxeboot, vmlinux and the initrd.gz
[01:09] <pitti> jdub: thanks, boss :-)
[01:09] <fabbione> thaytan: also. on the tftpd box you will need more settings.
[01:09] <jdub> pitti: mdz's the boss, i'm just the bad cop :)
[01:09] <fabbione> if you need help let me know..
[01:09] <fabbione> i have a working setup here
[01:10] <thaytan> ok, ta
[01:10] <thaytan> I can't just point memdisk at mini.iso?
[01:10] <pitti> seb128: I just uploaded a fixed gcm, works now
[01:11] <fabbione> the mini.iso is an iso you boot but performs netinstall
[01:11] <seb128> cool, thanks !
[01:11] <fabbione> thaytan: if you want to use tftp boot you will need pxeboot and 2 files i mentioned above
[01:11] <thom> fabbione: yeah, i just couldn't find it
[01:12] <fabbione> thom: ehhehe
[01:13] <thom> hurrah for local mirros
[01:14] <Kamion> jdub: pong
[01:15] <jdub> Kamion: n/m, fabbione helped thaytan
[01:15] <Kamion> okie
[01:15] <seb128> grrrrr
[01:15] <seb128> GNOME guys should really have a test or something for html doc presence in tarballs
[01:15] <seb128> they keep forgetting it, that's a pain
[01:15] <jdub> seb128: ugh
[01:16] <jdub> seb128: you need any help hassling people?
[01:16] <seb128> I've filled 5 bugs on 2.7.92, most of them have fixed it
[01:16] <fabbione> GO SEB! GO SEB!
[01:16] <seb128> but for exemple gconf doesn't include the doc in 2.8
[01:16] <jdub> seb128: once you've done the gnome updates, are you going to have time for #1214 and #1188?
[01:17] <seb128> jdub: no, I open bug report and they fix it usually ... but the html are often forgotten
[01:17] <thaytan> fabbione: sweet, bootx0rd
[01:17] <thaytan> thank you :)
[01:17] <fabbione> thaytan: no problem..
[01:17] <seb128> jdub: I don't understand for 1214, I've had a quick look, the netstatus applet has a gksudo patch and the patch is applied
[01:18] <seb128> jdub: I'll check in details after 2.8 packaging yes
[01:19] <fabbione> daniels: if the nv driver is not going to compile within today, we will have approx 24 hours to package X.org :P
[01:19] <jdub> oh
[01:19] <jdub> shit
[01:19] <jdub> seb128: man, don't worry about it
[01:19] <jdub> seb128: i'm an idiot
[01:19] <seb128> jdub: and for 1188 I didn't get the mail with the patch ...I've asked to Nathaniel to attach it to the bug report, I'll review it once it's attached
[01:19] <jdub> seb128: that was filed due to the effects of #1206 ;-)
[01:19] <jdub> seb128: ok, thanks!
[01:19] <seb128> np :)
[01:20] <seb128> jdub: I'll start evo-2.0 packaging in about 2 hours
[01:20] <jdub> seb128: sweeeeeeeet
[01:20] <seb128> I finish orbit/bonobo stuff, gconf & panel, then lunch and after evo
[01:20] <seb128> we want to rename it evolution2.0 or evolution ?
[01:21] <seb128> and is there some branding or menu items moves to include ?
[01:21] <jdub> seb128: oh, preferred applications refers to evolution-1.5. i can fix that though.
[01:21] <seb128> I'll fix it in control-center 2.8 (if they release a cc :p)
[01:22] <jdub> seb128: hrm, i'll find that evo bug and mark it critical for you
[01:22] <jdub> seb128: ah, ok
[01:22] <seb128> in fact that should be fixed upstream in 2.8
[01:22] <seb128> ok, thanks
[01:22] <jdub> seb128: indeed - i'll bug them for that
[01:28] <cef> hey, do we have a minimum system requirements list? (do we need one?)
[01:30] <fabbione> cef: afaik the only requirement is disk space and iirc it has been addressed
[01:30] <fabbione> with all the kernels that we ship, we can install basically everywhere
[01:30] <cef> fabbione: ok.. so it's listed somewhere on the wiki/webpage? thinking users will want to know
[01:31] <Kamion> oh crap, yeah, I need to update the boot screens today with disk space reqs
[01:31] <Kamion> bugger
[01:31] <cef> Kamion: oops
[01:31] <fabbione> :)
[01:32] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry.. i was sure you did it already :)
[01:32] <Kamion> oh well, it *is* something that's good to have updated at the end anyway
[01:33] <cef> just thinking it should be listed somewhere on the web so that ppl won't download the iso, try and install and go "oh crap it needs xxx and I've not got that much disk!" and have wasted a ~500 meg d/load
[01:34] <Kamion> it should probably go in the installation howtos
[01:34] <cef> yer
[01:35] <cef> noticed the wiki is now public
[01:35] <Kamion> aye
[01:35] <cef> shouldn't someone remove the usplash stuff from the warty page, since it's not in warty?
[01:36] <jdub> Kamion: minimum 128MB RAM for the desktop, 512MB recommended
[01:36] <jdub> cef: that's task listy kind of stuff
[01:36] <jdub> cef: there'll be a proper webpage that most people will look at :)
[01:36] <cef> jdub: yup cool. thought I'd just mention that since I just noticed it
[01:37] <jdub> it should be shifted over to the hoary page though, i guess (though i kinda think we should do those task list things differently)
[01:37] <thaytan> hrmn, a little more help?
[01:38] <thaytan> anyone know a way to copy stuff on this laptop off before I blow it away?
[01:38] <thaytan> it has an ntfs partition that's broken, but contains useful things
[01:38] <thaytan> and no cd-rom
[01:38] <cef> thaytan: dd ?
[01:38] <thaytan> cef: I need a network util
[01:38] <daniels> fabbione: heh
[01:39] <cef> thaytan: knoppix, or perhaps ubuntu's livecd
[01:39] <thaytan> cef: did I mention the no cdrom bit?
[01:39] <jdub> thaytan: nc
[01:40] <jdub> thaytan: what have you got on there? floppy? usb?
[01:40] <cef> thaytan: ahh good point.. hrm.. doesn't sound promising
[01:40] <thaytan> jdub: nc, ta
[01:40] <thaytan> busybox has nc
[01:40] <jdub> thaytan: boot a usb key linuxy thing, and dd over nc or something
[01:40] <jdub> yeah
[01:40] <thaytan> I've got the ubuntu installer booted, so I have nc
[01:40] <thaytan> I just hadn't spotted it there :)
[01:40] <jdub> aha
[01:42] <Kamion> you might be able to use openssh-client-udeb too, but you have to know the magic runes to get the installer to pull that in
[01:42] <Kamion> and I forget if our glibc is fixed to include all the necessary libraries, so that might be a hoary thing
[01:44] <thaytan> tar and nc ought to do me, I hope
[01:46] <Kamion> mdz: any particular reason that we don't have *-2.6-* metapackages for linux-restricted-modules? it would help base-installer to behave more sanely
[01:49] <thom> seb128: i don't appear to have the "write to cd" option in nautilus for .iso files atm
[01:50] <seb128> is nautilus-cd-burner installed ?
[01:51] <thom> yes
[01:51] <seb128> what's the mime type displayed in the properties of the file ?
[01:51] <thom> ii  nautilus-cd-burner  2.8.0-0ubuntu1
[01:51] <thom> application/x-arc
[01:52] <seb128> I've application/x-cd-image here
[01:52] <thom> hrm
[01:52] <seb128> hum
[01:52] <thom> i'll reinstall this machine and see if it still does it
[01:52] <rburton> works for me
[01:52] <seb128> what's x-arc ?
[01:53] <rburton> arc files, compressed files
[01:53] <seb128> is that an iso ?
[01:53] <rburton> nope
[01:53] <rburton> bad sniffing i guess
[01:53] <seb128> yes ..
[01:53] <cef> you can open .iso's with the archive manager
[01:54] <seb128> thom: file file.iso ?
[01:54] <seb128> cef: yes
[01:56] <seb128> ok, time to restart GNOME to check that all is fine with the orbit/bonobo update
[01:56] <seb128> bbr
[02:00] <thom> seb128: tmp/warty-amd64.iso: ISO 9660 CD-ROM filesystem data 'Ubuntu 4.10 amd64 Bin-1        ' (bootable)
[02:01] <seb128> gnomevfs-info file:///.... ?
[02:01] <thom> gnomevfs-info file:///home/thom/tmp/warty-amd64.iso|grep MIME
[02:01] <thom> MIME type         : application/x-cd-image
[02:03] <seb128> and in nautilus you don't get this mime type ?
[02:03] <thom> nope
[02:03] <seb128> ok, please open a but with the mime type in nautilus and the file/gnomevfs-info output
[02:03] <seb128> I'll follow upstream after the 2.8 packaging
[02:03] <seb128> thanks
[02:04] <thom> sure
[02:05] <seb128> thom: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145956
[02:05] <seb128> "ISO image recognised as "application/x-arc""
[02:05] <seb128> could you provide the first 500k and reopen the bug ?
[02:10] <thom> will do
[02:11] <seb128> ok, thanks
[02:14] <thom> hrm, both the original reporter and I are on amd64
[02:16] <seb128> yes, a note about this and the 500ko should be enough info for bastien :)
[02:18] <thom> right, time for todays cd
[02:18] <thom> bbiaf
[02:21] <Kamion> by the way folks, I plan to do another CD build this evening just so that we have a bit more of a chance at quality control
[02:22] <fabbione> Kamion: we will have to rebuild tomorrow at release time, don't we?
[02:23] <Kamion> fabbione: certainly
[02:23] <Kamion> fabbione: I was kind of hoping for the morning's automatic build to be what we release so that we have as much testing time as possible, but that may be a pipe dream
[02:24] <Keybuk> hmm... Firefox 1.0PR
[02:24] <fabbione> Kamion: yes :-)
[02:31] <dieman> Keybuk: do it.
[02:31] <dieman> Keybuk: if it fixes half the printing crash bugs.
[02:31] <dieman> :)
[02:31] <sabdfl> hmm... they'll definitely be 1.0 by the time we go gold... jdub? <duck>
[02:31] <jdub> sabdfl: that was the intention, yeah
[02:32] <sabdfl> really? cool
[02:32] <sabdfl> then we should have packages asap though
[02:32] <jdub> sabdfl: makes sense to lump it in with the gnome goal, given their timeline
[02:32] <jdub> sabdfl: and choosing it as the default
[02:32] <sabdfl> jdub: lulu' got steam coming out of her ears, i must apologise profusely for distracting you from the production of her content
[02:32] <lamont> morning all
[02:33] <sabdfl> lamont: mornin'!
[02:33] <lamont> pitti about?
[02:34] <jdub> sabdfl: yeah, grinding down the list :)
[02:35] <lulu> jdub: thanks :o)
[02:36] <lamont> rburton: bug #1066
[02:37] <lamont> rburton: cdrecord, or groisofs?
[02:37] <lamont> growisofs, even
[02:37] <jordi> daniels: dude?
[02:39] <rburton> lamont: probably growisofs as i was writing to a dvd-rw
[02:39] <lamont> grab the latest dvd+rw-tools, and sudo growisofs. :-(
[02:39] <lamont> that's the workaround
[02:39] <jordi> daniels: I need to talk to you re: libburn. The sooner the better!
[02:40] <rburton> i wonder why i changed the permissions on cdrecord when i was writing to a dvd
[02:40] <lamont> making it suid doesn't fix it.
[02:40] <lamont> it drops privs too soon.
[02:41] <rburton> urgh
[02:41] <rburton> so n-c-b is totally broken with dvds?
[02:41] <lamont> there's a 2 line patch to drivers/cdrom/cdrom.c which is 100% hack, but makes the issue go away.
[02:41] <lamont> hoping Herbert will give us a correct patch today.
[02:42] <debianist> ok, what is the kernel package with nvidia support?
[02:43] <lamont> cdrom.c declines to open our dvd-r's for write (falls off the end of an if-then-else tree), and you need write-mode to do some of the ioctls...  root always has write access...
[02:43] <lamont> mortals don't
[02:43] <debianist> i tried installing kernel-image, but it's already installed. How do I setich to 2.6.8?
[02:43] <lamont> making the write open succeed fixes things.
[02:43] <jdub> dudes
[02:43] <jdub> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog/PreviewReleaseDayZero
[02:44] <lamont> debianist: apt-get install linux-kernel-2.6-686 or whatever
[02:44] <jdub> we are on the home straight
[02:44] <lamont> er, linux-image-2.6-686
[02:44] <jdub> please add notes for important events in your own critical path
[02:46] <debianist> jdub : ubuntu 4.10 is the official public review?
[02:46] <debianist> jdub : i though also that gnome 2.8 is targeted at Hoary..:)
[02:47] <lamont> debianist: preview...  and then we do this all over again in October for the final 4-10
[02:47] <jdub> debianist: this release is versioned as '4.10', but this is the preview
[02:47] <lamont> jdub: did you and Mark finalize the '.' vs '-' debate?
[02:47] <jdub> lamont: i wasn't involved in that one
[02:47] <jdub> debianist: gnome 2.8 is in warty *now* :)
[02:47] <jdub> debianist: it'll be gnome 2.10 in hoary
[02:47] <debianist> jdub : 2.8 is unstable yet?
[02:48] <debianist> jdbu : (at least by defenition)
[02:48] <Kamion> debianist: jdub is the GNOME release manager, he probably knows what's going on here ... :)
[02:49] <jdub> debianist: in the timeline on that page, it says that gnome 2.8 is due at 13:00 UTC :)
[02:49] <debianist> Kamion,jdub : never meant to be disrespectful ;) just interested with the details..
[02:49] <jdub> no worries ;)
[02:49] <rburton> g2.8 rocks my world
[02:50] <jdub> rburton: sure it's not a hurricane?
[02:50] <debianist> jdub : i am upgrading now :)
[02:50] <debianist> yeppers , i see those 2.8ubuntu thingies :)
[02:50] <thaytan> alright, another q
[02:51] <rburton> debianist: its always been gnome 2.7.x in ubuntu, which is 2.8 beta
[02:51] <thaytan> anything in the installer proggies to scan for bad blocks?
[02:51] <lamont> jdub: we're not going to get in trouble with the gnome release manager for having the bits there 40 hours early??? :-)
[02:51] <jdub> lamont: heh, rawhide has everything already too
[02:51] <jdub> lamont: 'sall on the gnome ftp server ;)
[02:52] <jdub> the release announcement is just a formality ;)
[02:52] <debianist> showstoppers will be updated until cd buils?
[02:52] <jdub> if there are any
[02:52] <rburton> jdub: i think experimental is getting 2.8 too
[02:52] <jdub> we have room to move if there are significant problems towards the end of the release too
[02:54] <debianist> Kamion : I guess it's ok now to inform my local glu and some israeli websites?
[02:54] <jdub> debianist: not now please
[02:55] <jdub> debianist: you can send the invite to your friends, but not to LUGs or websites please
[02:55] <jdub> debianist: they will find out tomorrow :)
[02:55] <debianist> judb : sure! i'd just want to be the one to announce them..:)
[02:56] <jdub> hey pdr
[02:56] <cef> same on my side (since I'm president of a LUG and all.. *grin*)
[02:56] <debianist> jdub : official website on air?
[02:57] <jdub> debianist: same time as the release
[02:57] <debianist> where is it going be announced?
[02:57] <jdub> debianist: some linux sites know about it
[02:57] <jdub> debianist: we'll be mailing various lists
[02:57] <jdub> debianist: if you're in the channel at release time, you'll know when it's okay to tell the world ;-)
[02:58] <debianist> k
[02:58] <debianist> jdub : whatsup.co.il is on the list ? :)
[02:59] <pitti> jdub: at which exact time we will release? I. e. up to which time we can do uploads?
[02:59] <Riff> does the canonical packages tree have libhowl 0.9.6 ?
[02:59] <jdub> pitti: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fPreviewReleaseDayZero
[02:59] <jdub> Riff: no, no howl
[02:59] <Riff> jdub: I can't compile it
[02:59] <Riff> it keeps failing
[02:59] <pitti> jdub: thanks
[03:00] <jdub> pitti: unlikely that matt and i will be approving many uploads between now and then :)
[03:00] <Keybuk> ouch @ poor Colin's 7am start
[03:01] <Keybuk> or is it 9am?  my math sucks
[03:01] <Kamion> 9am
[03:01] <Keybuk> 9am, sorry
[03:01] <Kamion> I'll probably be up from 8 though
[03:02] <pitti> jdub: does it make sense for me to continue to work on #1217? It's a pretty complicated gnome-vfs bug
[03:02] <pitti> jdub: if such changes won't get approved, it does not make sense to waste time on it now
[03:02] <pitti> jdub: I also have to continue security review
[03:02] <rburton> jdub: let him work on #1217 :)
[03:03] <jdub> pitti: that's currently marked as severity normal
[03:03] <jdub> pitti: you should raise it if you want matt and i to consider it for upload confirmation
[03:03] <pitti> jdub: I already tried for over an hour to find a solution; as long as I don't have one, I cannot request an upload confirmation
[03:04] <jdub> pitti: i would consider it critical though
[03:04] <jdub> right
[03:04] <pitti> jdub: I just wanted to know if the bug is severe enough to be regarded as a blocker
[03:04] <pitti> jdub: it works fine for my two CD-ROMs BTW
[03:04] <jdub> pitti: is this an upgrade issue?
[03:04] <rburton> yes
[03:04] <jdub> okay
[03:04] <rburton> existing systems will have /dev/cdrom in fstab
[03:04] <pitti> jdub: as long as the installer does not write /media/cdrom into fstab (which is symlinked to /media/cdrom0) everything goes well
[03:04] <pitti> jdub: I've got no idea. Maybe
[03:05] <jdub> less of a concern for us then
[03:05] <jdub> sorry rburton :)
[03:05] <rburton> no prob. i'll remove cdrom from fstab for now
[03:05] <rburton> i presume i can remove floppy too
[03:05] <jdub> mine has:
[03:05] <jdub> /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   iso9660 ro,user,noauto  0       0
[03:05] <pitti> rburton: it should be enough to put /media/cdrom0 instead of /media/cdrom there
[03:06] <rburton> if pmount is supposed to do the right thing then i'll remove it
[03:06] <pitti> rburton: oh yes, /dev/cdrom won't work, too; it should be hda/hdb/sda/whatever
[03:06] <rburton> pitti: i have /dev/hdc
[03:06] <pitti> rburton: if you remove it, you will only lose the icons in the computer menu if the CD-ROM is not mounted
[03:06] <pitti> rburton: would be great if you could verify that it works that way
[03:06] <rburton> sure
[03:07] <rburton> hm, computer still has floppy and cdrom icons. it didn't refresh after i changed fstab
[03:09] <pitti> rburton: I guess you have to log out and back in to restart gnome-vfs
[03:10] <jdub> killall nautilus!
[03:10] <jdub> :)
[03:10] <rburton> it only refreshed when i tried to mount the icon
[03:10] <rburton> even after a kill
[03:11] <pdr> jdub: hey (sorry - bit slow on the trigger)
[03:16] <Kamion> argh, base-installer's kernel selection algorithm sucks
[03:16] <Kamion> it's not picking the kernel-major metapackages
[03:19] <lamont> jdub: are we staging uploads during the preview->release timeframe?  (warty-updates vs warty for the upload??)
[03:19] <lamont> or is that an mdz question?
[03:20] <jdub> lamont: check with mdz on that one
[03:20] <lamont> yeah - but that means waiting for a decent hour of the day. :-)
[03:21] <HrdwrBoB> timezones suck
[03:22] <HrdwrBoB> they need to be standardized
[03:22] <HrdwrBoB> surely we can change the rate of the earth spinning
[03:22] <HrdwrBoB> and make up our own days
[03:23] <lamont> HrdwrBoB: hrm... that could really mess up ocean currents.  And if you goof, we spiral into the sun. Maybe not a good plan... :-)
[03:23] <lamont> HrdwrBoB: blame the train operators for timezones
[03:23] <HrdwrBoB> I think that's just the start of the problems :)
[03:24] <HrdwrBoB> damn them all, well, I'm in melbourne, au, we can blame a lot on our train operators
[03:24] <rburton> lamont: lets blame railtrack
[03:25] <lamont> prior to timezones, local noon was always 'local noon', which had a bit of variance...  real bitch to make a train schedule that way... So they fixed it... :-)
[03:25] <HrdwrBoB> 'the train comes in in the morning'
[03:28] <sabdfl> jdub, seb128: is the panel colour the same as the menu colour when you set background to "None (use system theme)"?
[03:29] <dieman> heh
[03:29] <dieman> is, rather
[03:29] <dieman> stupid lagging gprs.
[03:29] <khalek> HrdwrBoB: or would if it didn't get cancelled by connex
[03:30] <dieman> we're trying to get commuter rail here, its been an upward battle.
[03:30] <dieman> (or uphil, etc)
[03:30] <dieman> uphill...
[03:31] <lamont> dieman: long way from commuter rail here...
[03:31] <dieman> heh
[03:31] <dieman> we should have started 3 years ago
[03:31] <dieman> the light rail line here is still nearly 2x of estimated rides per month.
[03:31] <dieman> after two months
[03:31] <dieman> will get more interesting 6-12 months out if its still happening.
[03:32] <seb128> sabdfl: yes, apparently they are the same ... why ?
[03:32] <sabdfl> for hoary, would be nice if we could polish the look of the panel up a little
[03:32] <sabdfl> panel and panel menus are currently too plain, too similar to app menus
[03:33] <jdub> sabdfl: yes, same colour
[03:33] <pitti> lamont: hi! sorry to hijack you, but are the 2004 DSAs cleared now?
[03:33] <dieman> Developers: Solaris 10 to be Open Source
[03:33] <sabdfl> lamont: good work on postfix, btw
[03:33] <dieman> http://news.com.com/'Open+Source+Solaris'+to+debut+this+year/2100-7344_3-5364052.html
[03:33] <dieman> heh
[03:33] <dieman> yay for the mysterious future on /.
[03:33] <sabdfl> dieman: great news
[03:33] <debianist> :)
[03:33] <jdub> sabdfl: the whole panel/launcher/applet model needs to be overhauled. that's a large job that will require a lot of thought and prototyping.
[03:33] <sabdfl> will make for better cooperation across platforms, certainly
[03:34] <dieman> hopefully its a compatible license
[03:34] <sabdfl> jdub: ok, we'll leave that to the guru's and go with the flow, i'm just thinking tweaks and polish here
[03:34] <jdub> sabdfl: not sure there's much value in going beyond upstream incremental changes unless we move on that
[03:34] <jdub> ok
[03:34] <dieman> hopefully when they redo the panel it will suck less memory :)
[03:34] <lamont> pitti: so tcpdump is OK?
[03:35] <dieman> i moved to fltk because of that.
[03:35] <lamont> pitti: finally writing the email now.
[03:35] <sabdfl> jdub: all i'd like to get is a slightly more polished look that ties into the desktop colour system more naturally
[03:35] <sabdfl> c.f. WinXP *cough*
[03:35] <dieman> s/fltk/xfce/
[03:35] <dieman> can't think
[03:35] <Keybuk> dieman: huh?  how much memory is your panel taking?
[03:35] <lamont> short answer: either in the wiki, or clear.  Universe is left as an exercise
[03:35] <dieman> need my morning tea
[03:35] <dieman> Keybuk: i think it was at least 10+mb
[03:35] <sabdfl> the panel in WinXP is closer to the active app window frame colour
[03:35] <pitti> lamont: yep, I digged through the tcpdump sources and security upload interdiffs
[03:35] <dieman> Keybuk: im on a memory constrained machine
[03:35] <Keybuk> dieman: now, do you want to learn about memory management and try again? :p
[03:35] <jdub> sabdfl: hrm. i think we can pull off a few tricks in that respect. :-)
[03:36] <pitti> lamont: that's great. I just thought that you still had some DSAs to process
[03:36] <lamont> pitti: yeah, just saw that
[03:36] <sabdfl> i've tried just setting the colour in panel->properties, but it looks shite
[03:36] <dieman> like 256mb
[03:36] <dieman> when im using xfce i dont hit swap at least
[03:36] <dieman> but im also on debian unstable...
[03:36] <jdub> sabdfl: remind me about it post-release, trying to keep my mind of this stuff. :-)
[03:36] <sabdfl> the menu stays grey
[03:36] <dieman> not tried ubuntu on here
[03:36] <lamont> pitti: 33 to process in universe, but main done.
[03:36] <Keybuk> dieman: on my machine, gnome-panel is using about 110KB
[03:36] <sabdfl> post-preview or post-release?
[03:36] <jdub> sabdfl: or, file a bug on me! :)
[03:36] <jdub> sabdfl: oh, post-preview
[03:37] <sabdfl> ok, will do, would be lovely if this could make warty
[03:37] <pitti> lamont: good to hear. I update the wiki stats.
[03:37] <jdub> sabdfl: well, i would like to *think* about it post-preview, but it's not necessarily warty material. :)
[03:37] <dieman> Keybuk: perhaps i was reading the wrong thing then
[03:37] <Keybuk> yes, you were :)
[03:37] <dieman> Keybuk: in any case it was something in gnome, minus nautilus, that was doing it
[03:37] <dieman> since i had nautilus turned off
[03:37] <dieman> and its like a good 30+ mb.
[03:38] <Keybuk> I'd be quite surprised. GNOME is a little flabby in terms of memory, but greatly so
[03:38] <Keybuk> the entire footprint is about 80MB
[03:39] <dieman> what are you using to figure out how much memory its using?
[03:39] <Keybuk> reading the map table
[03:39] <Keybuk> pmap -x PID | grep "rw-.*anon"
[03:39] <Keybuk> will list the heapy stuff
[03:40] <seb128> jdub: I'm going to build panel 2.8 ... the about ubuntu should point to what ?
[03:40] <seb128> jdub: website ? local file ?
[03:40] <jdub> seb128: http://home.ubuntu.com/
[03:40] <seb128> ok
[03:40] <jdub> seb128: we'll fix up local stuff before final
[03:40] <seb128> ok
[03:41] <lamont> pitti: actually < 33 in universe...
[03:42] <pitti> lamont: probably we should just sync universe from time to time
[03:42] <pitti> lamont: thanks for your work; I'm satisfied to have main cleared, universe is bonus work
[03:43] <pitti> lamont, debianist: debianist, do you want to process the 2004 universe bugs? lamont, can you send the list to him?
[03:44] <Keybuk> dieman: the three biggest maps in gnome-panel are:
[03:44] <Keybuk> 409de000   1212K r-x--  /libc-2.3.2.so
[03:44] <Keybuk> 40d67000   1556K r----  /locale-archive
[03:44] <Keybuk> 40398000   2848K r-x--  /libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.400.4
[03:44] <Keybuk> 080bc000   6308K rwx--    [ anon ]
[03:44] <Keybuk> four biggest, sorry
[03:44] <lamont> pitti: assuming he's on the cc list for the mail I just sent.
[03:44] <Keybuk> libc and the locale-archive are shared amongst every single app running
[03:45] <Keybuk> and GTK+ is pretty much too -- and you wouldn't elminate that in XFCE either
[03:45] <Keybuk> the other is the stack, most of that's over-commit and it shouldn't be using much more than 32k or so
[03:46] <dieman> Keybuk: xfce uses gtk
[03:46] <Keybuk> exactly
[03:46] <debianist> pitti : yes'sir!
[03:46] <dieman> yeah
[03:46] <dieman> so i dont know what im endin up with different
[03:46] <dieman> enging, rather.
[03:46] <dieman> ending. gah.
[03:46] <pitti> lamont: "I just sent" implies its already away. I did not get it :-(
[03:47] <pitti> debianist: do you want to do the universe checking?
[03:47] <Keybuk> a lot of people tend to point their finger at the high VSZ of GNOME apps and rant
[03:47] <debianist> pitti : yes, it's due with the public review?
[03:47] <lamont> Subject: Debian Security Advisory 2004 - done.
[03:47] <Keybuk> without taking into account the reason for the high VSZ is that most of GNOME is shared library ... so most of that memory is shared between all the apps anyway
[03:47] <dieman> im just point at swap use
[03:47] <pitti> debianist: due?
[03:47] <debianist> pitti : sorry,
[03:47] <debianist> pitti : it's universe :)
[03:48] <debianist> pitti : no due
[03:49] <pitti> debianist: verifying these 33 packages in universe is bonus, so you don't need to if you don't want
[03:50] <Keybuk> dieman: dunno ... had you done a massive upgrade?  That can temporarily increase your disk and memory usage
[03:50] <debianist> pitti : i'll do it.
[03:50] <debianist> pitti : what about the universe stuff from 2002 DSAs?
[03:56] <lamont> debianist/pitti: fixed= in my mail --> from the DSA
[03:56] <lamont> sid=, warty= version currently in each
[04:07] <thom> rock, i have OpenOffice on amd64
[04:08] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: great work
[04:08] <sabdfl> thom: stable? fast?
[04:09] <lamont> sabdfl: you used openoffice and fast in the same sentence??? :-)
[04:09] <thom> sabdfl: as fast as it's ever been :-)
[04:09] <lamont> thom: don'
[04:10] <lamont> t you mean 'faster than ever before'?? :-)
[04:15] <cef> so what is going to happen with oo.org anyway? 2.0 is due soon
[04:22] <cef> nite all
[04:23] <pitti> cef: good night
[04:24] <lamont> cef: soon == 2005, iirc.
[04:24] <lamont> which puts it into hoary or grumpy, depending on timing.
[04:25] <lamont> jdub: so did we upload _everything_ in the last 2 days?? :-)
[04:26] <Kamion> most of gnome ...
[04:26] <lamont> and X and kernel and ...
[04:26] <jdub> all of gnome, 'cept a few stragglers ;)
[04:26] <lamont> OTOH, I have almost 600MB of headroom for full-throttle mirroring...
[04:26] <jdub> oh man
[04:27] <jdub> you love it
[04:27] <jdub> the latest crack
[04:27] <jdub> it's greaaaaat
[04:28] <pitti> mako: Hi!
[04:28] <mako> pitti: oi!
[04:28] <lamont> yeah - this evening I'll open the throttle and let 'er rip, just so I can have bits by morning.. :)
[04:28] <Mithrandir> lamont: on amd64, OOo is fast. ;)
[04:29] <lamont> Mithrandir: wondered how long that bait would take you... :-)
[04:29] <Mithrandir> lamont: I've been off on lectures and meeting and coding up a decent terminal server solution
[04:29] <lamont> jdub: ubuntu-artwork isn't debugging anymore???  Gonna have to go grab that.
[04:31] <pitti> lamont: I already have the latest artwork crack, still debugging
[04:31] <lamont> sigh
[04:31] <pitti> lamont: actually I hoped to see some sexy girls before the release :-)
[04:33] <lamont> pitti: we do need a prudish-option on the artwork, for some communities...
[04:33] <pitti> lamont: of course
[04:33] <pitti> lamont: but I would even prefer the older artwork, with the logo
[04:33] <pitti> lamont: it was better to show to friends than this debugging stuff
[04:34] <thom> seb128: ok, that iso bug is weird. when i first open the home folder, it shows me the iso artwork correctly. as soon as i double click the icon, nautilus changes the icon to a standard gnome-foot
[04:36] <seb128> thom: that's because the first view is based on extensions
[04:36] <seb128> when you click it does some magic mime
[04:37] <thom> gar
[04:37] <seb128> they stopped to analyse all the files when you open a dir, it takes ressources for nothing
[04:37] <seb128> so the view is just based on extensions
[04:39] <seb128> jdub: here ?
[04:40] <seb128> guys, evolution1.5 -> evolution or evolution2.0 ?
[04:41] <seb128> advices are welcome :)
[04:41] <dieman> evolution, imo
[04:41] <dieman> but im not part of the team here :)
[04:42] <thom> evolution
[04:43] <seb128> ok, I've started to package it as evolution, but better to get some advices :)
[04:43] <seb128> thanks dieman & thom
[04:51] <seb128> do you think that evolution should provide evolution1.5 or not ?
[04:52] <lamont> doko: which - the 24 hour delay on sending email?
[04:52] <pitti> seb128: sounds like provide, conflict and replace, don't?
[04:52] <seb128> conflict/replace sure
[04:52] <pitti> doko: everything's settled now
[04:52] <seb128> is provides needed for an app like that ? Provides are not versionned ... what's the interest ?
[04:52] <pitti> seb128: okay, provide might not actually be required
[04:53] <seb128> I'm not sure, that's why I ask :)
[04:53] <pitti> seb128: well, package names usually aren't either
[04:53] <pitti> but if it does not provide, upgrades will fail, won't them?
[04:53] <pitti> i. e. evolution1.5 won't be upgraded to evolution automatically AFAICS
[04:54] <doko> lamont, pitti: yes, so we've checked the first 40 dsa's twice. doing something else now.
[04:54] <pitti> seb128: no, that was crap
[04:54] <seb128> pitti: and the provides help for that ? Provides are not versionned afail
[04:54] <seb128> afaik
[04:54] <pitti> seb128: you still have to have an evolution1.5 package which depends on evolution
[04:54] <pitti> seb128: yes, they are not versioned, but the package name becomes different
[04:55] <Kamion> the provides will help anything else that Depends: evolution; I think it also supplies a hint to package management front-ends
[04:55] <Kamion> although conflicts/replaces is most of that
[04:55] <pitti> seb128: so we need a transition package evolution1.5 which depends on evolution
[04:55] <seb128> Kamion: the point is that nothing depends on evolution1.5 basically
[04:55] <Kamion> fair enough
[04:56] <seb128> just the connector/webcal that need a rebuild
[04:56] <seb128> ok
[04:56] <pitti> seb128: nothing depends on it?
[04:56] <seb128> hum, should we have a dummy evolution1.5 -> evolution ?
[04:56] <pitti> seb128: then the provides should not be necessary
[04:56] <pitti> seb128: you need for upgrades
[04:57] <seb128> ok
[04:57] <seb128> I'll keep a dummy
[04:57] <debianist> lamont : sorry, wasn't here, what were you saying?
[04:58] <lamont> debianist: no clue now..
[04:58] <pitti> seb128: evolution1.5 must depend on evolution
[04:58] <seb128> yes, doing a dummy package for updates is not a problem
[04:58] <seb128> thanks :)
[04:59] <lamont> doko: the issue was that I got yanked away from composing the email yesterday, and told pitti status in IRC.  He thought it was partial status (wasn't), and I was reminded of that in scrollback this morning... sorry about that.
[04:59] <lamont> doko: but any work you've done on the universe packages isn't duplicate.....
[05:01] <doko> ahh, ok. I'll continue on the universe packages after the warty release
[05:09] <lamont> the extent of my work on the universe DSA's was to fix the script output to be the sid version instead of the warty version in 'sid=', and cull some where the fixed version was clearly in both.
[05:17] <rburton> you can't ship gstreamer with the ffmpeg mpeg4 plugins, right?
[05:18] <jdub> no
[05:22] <rburton> arse
[05:22] <rburton> there needs to be an ubuntu-ilicit apt source
[05:22] <jdub> rburton: we call it 'universe' ;)
[05:23] <rburton> i guess i could just switch to totem-xine
[05:23] <jdub> works well here
[05:34] <daniels> jordi: er
[05:35] <daniels> jordi: i already /msg'ed you --<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:35] <daniels> jordi: also<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:42] <jordi> daniels: ah, got lost in the blackout reboot then
[05:42] <jordi> daniels: thanks
[05:43] <kagou> hi guys
[05:44] <seb128> hey kagou
[05:45] <kagou> seb128, :)
[05:46] <daniels> jordi: no worries
[05:59] <debianist> does anybody know if what is the "desktop" in gnome, is /home/$user ?
[06:00] <Keybuk> /home/$USER/Desktop
[06:00] <debianist> when i touch a new file in /home/$user , it appears on my gnome desktop
[06:00] <debianist> :-()
[06:01] <windi> the ~/Desktop is default for plain-vanilla GNOME only
[06:01] <mdz> morning
[06:01] <Keybuk> what's gconf:///apps/nautilus/preferences/desktop_is_home_dir set to?
[06:01] <Keybuk> gconftool-2 -g /apps/nautilus/preferences/desktop_is_home_dir
[06:01] <Keybuk> will tell you that
[06:01] <mdz> Kamion: I was thinking the same thing (metapackages for l-r-m), I think we'll add them
[06:02] <debianist> false
[06:02] <debianist> Keybuk : false
[06:03] <Keybuk> ok, that's just strange :)
[06:03] <Keybuk> Desktop is a directory in your home, not a symlink to $HOME ?
[06:04] <debianist> Keybuk : lemme check
[06:04] <debianist> Keybuk : drwxr-xr-x    6 pooh     pooh          336 Sep 14 19:01 Desktop
[06:06] <Keybuk> is there a Desktop folder on your desktop ?
[06:06] <fabbione> YES YES YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
[06:06] <fabbione> i found my car!
[06:06] <fabbione> i have my car back!
[06:07] <fabbione> it can't rain (shit) forever!
[06:07] <Keybuk> intact and undamaged?
[06:07] <pitti> fabbione: good to hear
[06:07] <fabbione> intact
[06:07] <fabbione> and undamaged
[06:07] <Keybuk> yay, fab news then :)
[06:07] <fabbione> my nice little cute car
[06:07] <fabbione> www.fabbione.net/coat1.jpg
[06:07] <fabbione> www.fabbione.net/coat2.jpg
[06:07] <fabbione> ^^ it's her..
[06:08] <debianist> Keybuk : yes there is.
[06:08] <fabbione> call her Christne :-)
[06:08] <Keybuk> debianist: only thing I can suggest is killing nautilus, and seeing if it comes back equally strange
[06:08] <fabbione> and only one unresolved symbol left in the nv driver
[06:08] <fabbione> that's all good news :-)
[06:08] <Keybuk> fabbione: who found it where?
[06:09] <thom> fabbione: rock on, congratulation
[06:09] <debianist> Keybuk : executing
[06:09] <debianist> fabbione : boy, ain't she a beauty?
[06:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: i did :-))))
[06:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: very close to my bank
[06:09] <fabbione> thom: yeah!
[06:09] <fabbione> she was parked there... that's it
[06:09] <Keybuk> is this a case of "fabbione forgot where he parked it" ? :p
[06:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: nope.. i wasn't driving when it was stolen
[06:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: my gf was
[06:10] <fabbione> on another part of the city
[06:10] <pitti> fabbione: why it says Denmark at the plate?
[06:10] <fabbione> pitti: because i live in dk?
[06:10] <thom> they kicked him out of italy
[06:10] <pitti> fabbione: oops, I thought you were from italy?
[06:11] <fabbione> pitti: yeah.. i am.. as thombot says.. they couldn't keep there anymore
[06:11] <fabbione> ;)
[06:11] <pitti> fabbione: I don't ask
[06:11] <fabbione> pitti: ahaha nothing to hide
[06:11] <fabbione> she was blonde ;)
[06:12] <lamont> fabbione: so you still have italian citizenship then, eh?
[06:12] <fabbione> lamont: ahha
[06:12] <fabbione> italian passport rocks to go around :-)
[06:12] <Keybuk> lamont: EU citizens can live and work anywhere in the EU
[06:12] <pitti> fabbione: Ah, now it's clear :-)
[06:12] <pitti> fabbione: not so many blondes in Italy, no?
[06:13] <pitti> Keybuk: ever seen fabbionne's to compare?
[06:13] <debianist> fabbione : you like blondes?
[06:13] <lamont> debianist: who doesn't??? :-)
[06:13] <fabbione> i like girls.. i don't mind color of the hair
[06:13] <lamont> oh wait.  mine's a redhead. never mind.
[06:13] <pitti> lamont: as long as it's long hair, I don't mind
[06:13] <fabbione> pitti: nahh here is better...
[06:14] <fabbione> but the real origin of blondes is in sweden :-)
[06:14] <lamont> pitti: yeah - we go back and forth on that - she's grown it long again for me...
[06:14] <mdz> elmo: I don't think I have a copy of your new key
[06:14] <debianist> lamont : i don't know about you guys, i prefer the brazillian looks, dark tanned and curely hair :)
[06:14] <lamont> then she gets annoyed one day and shaves it down with a 2" comb. :-(
[06:14] <fabbione> mdz: it was posted on d-d.
[06:14] <pitti> mdz: Good morning!
[06:14] <mdz> morning
[06:14] <lamont> morning mdz
[06:14] <debianist> morning mdz
[06:14] <pitti> lamont: my condolescence
[06:14] <mdz> lamont: could you re-encrypt a copy of my message for elmo?
[06:14] <fabbione> mdz: pub  4096R/AB2A91F5 2004-08-20 James Troup<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:14] <lamont> mdz: sure
[06:14] <pitti> lamont: I just *love* long hair :-)
[06:15] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[06:15] <pitti> mdz: security review is finished, all urgent packages are up
[06:15] <fabbione> mdz: np :-)
[06:16] <lamont> mdz: sent
[06:16] <mdz> pitti: great, thanks
[06:17] <lamont> mdz: and now to go hack over growisofs some more... sigh.
[06:17] <lamont>  * - int ioctl_fd is transformed to void *ioctl_handle to facilitate
[06:17] <lamont>  *   port to FreeBSD;
[06:17] <lamont> can we hurt FreeBSD???  huh??
[06:17] <lamont> can we????????????????
[06:18] <mdz> heh, that code was _mangled_ to support freebsd
[06:18] <mdz> they should have written two different modules
[06:20] <pitti> mdz: any urgend tasks left?
[06:20] <pitti> mdz: apart from #1217 (which I wasted 2 hours on without success) I ran out of bugs
[06:24] <mdz> pitti: have you tested today's daily?
[06:24] <mdz> I'm downloading them now
[06:26] <pitti> mdz: not today's, no
[06:26] <pitti> with so many gnome changes going in recently, we probably need another daily for today
[06:26] <thom> mdz: i'm just about to do a netboot install
[06:27] <pitti> mdz: if you think it's a good idea to test the historic 20040914 build, we can do that
[06:27] <lamont> mdz: wanna try a new growisofs on your dvd burner?
[06:28] <lamont> anyone else got a dvd burner?
[06:28] <pitti> Kamion: will there be another subdaily CD build today? With all the gnome 2.8 crack?
[06:28] <thom> just finished 20040914 install of amd64
[06:28] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[06:28] <mdz> lamont: yes
[06:29] <pitti> Kamion: great!
[06:29] <mdz> thom: any issues?
[06:29] <Kamion> pitti: but not just yet, a couple of hours from now
[06:29] <lamont> http://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~lamont/dvd+rw-tools_<IP_ADDRESS>.7-2ubuntu4_i386.deb
[06:29] <thom> mdz: not with amd64
[06:30] <lamont> mdz: 69 lines of diff -u output. :-(
[06:31] <lamont> only 5 places in growisofs.c :-)
[06:32] <mdz> lamont: does it work?
[06:32] <mdz> (for you)
[06:32] <lamont> yes
[06:32] <thom> mdz: openoffice worked fantasticly, gnome looks good apart from a silly bug that looks like upstream  brokenness on amd64
[06:32] <lamont> I even ran the old version to make sure I had restored cdrom.ko
[06:33] <pitti> sabdfl: will we have a slighly better ubuntu-artwork in tomorrow's release?
[06:33] <pitti> sabdfl: I know, technically it's not the most important thing, but it does not look good on presentations
[06:34] <jdub> pitti: yes, we will
[06:34] <mdz> lamont: I'll give it a spin
[06:34] <jdub> pitti: folding back to gnome icons and no debugging backgrounds, etc.
[06:34] <pitti> jdub: thanks
[06:34] <mdz> thom: what's the silly bug?
[06:34] <Keybuk> http://www.vnunet.com/news/1158060
[06:34] <Keybuk> ^ interesting
[06:34] <jdub> pitti: latest ubuntu-artwork redefines the icons btw
[06:34] <pitti> jdub: I really liked the old brown background with the ubunto logo. Sth similar?
[06:34] <jdub> pitti: yeah, though with a solid background
[06:35] <thom> mdz: #1221
[06:38] <pitti> OO.o still shows a Debian logo in its splash screen. Is this intended?
[06:38] <mdz> lamont: working perfectly so far
[06:39] <mdz> pitti: #1076
[06:41] <Keybuk> lamont: I can't either
[06:41] <mdz> lamont: finished successfully as non-root
[06:41] <mdz> lamont: I say ship it
[06:43] <lamont> uploading
[06:47] <jdub> pitti: look at the list of critical and above bugs
[06:47] <pitti> jdub: will do
[06:47] <jdub> all the red ones are things we're intending to fix before the preview :)
[06:57] <pitti> thom: what's the status of #1203 (webdav)? shall I apply the patch?
[06:58] <lamont> mdz: <IP_ADDRESS>.8-1 in debian also fixes the issue.  But they only changed 1 of the opens....
[06:58] <lamont> mdz: want me to just take their diff?
[06:58] <Keybuk> jdub: 7 bugs ... 14 hours ... ya know, that's not bad :p
[06:58] <fabbione> YES THE NV DRIVER BUILD!
[06:58] <fabbione> daniels: wake up dude
[06:59] <thom> pitti: read the bug :-)
[06:59] <mdz> lamont: the fix came from upstream or from Debian?
[06:59] <thom> hrm, X is asking me to confirm which resolutions i want to use
[06:59] <fabbione> time to test it
[06:59] <fabbione> thom: arch?
[06:59] <mdz> thom: only on the netboot install?
[06:59] <lamont> mdz: upstream
[06:59] <pitti> thom: I did. If you can change the thing tomorrow before the CD build, fine :-)
[07:00] <thom> pitti: co-ordinated release
[07:00] <mdz> lamont: yes, let's take upstream's fix then
[07:00] <lamont> ok
[07:00] <thom> i'm burning an x86 cd to test on my desktop now
[07:00] <pitti> thom: okay. Just looking for bugs to help with :-)
[07:00] <thom> pitti: :-)
[07:00] <fabbione> thom: what arch?
[07:00] <thom> fabbione: x86
[07:01] <fabbione> thom: xresprobe <driver> ?
[07:01] <thom> base-config is just finishing, then i will
[07:01] <fabbione> if that question is asked, it means that the xresprobe didn't detect it
[07:01] <fabbione> thom: ok
[07:01] <Kamion> so, we need to reorg the cdimage layout before release
[07:01] <fabbione> well you can do it in the other window
[07:01] <fabbione> s/window/console
[07:02] <Kamion> ideally into something like /experimental/, /beta/, /preview/, /release/
[07:02] <Kamion> any opinions, or should I just do it?
[07:02] <jdub> Kamion: tiny suggestion -> have a look at the ftp.gnome.org layout for inspiration ;)
[07:03] <Kamion> jdub: not sure which bit you mean?
[07:04] <Kamion> hm, I probably can't break /daily/, /sounder-test/, /morphix/ since those have already been published
[07:04] <thom> res: 1024x768
[07:04] <Kamion> damn
[07:04] <lamont> mdz: does our kernel allow CAP_SYS_RAWIO, or is upstream smoking something?
[07:04] <thom> which is correct
[07:04] <Kamion> how about /preview/warty/ for tomorrow's release?
[07:04] <thom> fabbione: ^
[07:05] <jdub> Kamion: surely warty/preview/
[07:05] <jdub> then warty/final/
[07:05] <Kamion> that makes it hard for people to mirror only final releases
[07:05] <Kamion> which is a fairly reasonable thing to want to do
[07:05] <jdub> */final/ :-)
[07:06] <Kamion> I also can't say I like warty/, hoary/, etc. ad infinitum at the top level
[07:06] <jdub> then we can have hoary/array1/ hoary/array2/ ... hoary/preview/ hoary/final/
[07:06] <Kamion> I'd rather /releases/warty/final/
[07:06] <jdub> Kamion: we can archive them off every once in a while
[07:06] <Kamion> which leaves space for /experimental/ or whatever
[07:07] <Kamion> not to mention /daily/
[07:07] <seb128> we can't have 2 mail alias ? Apparently people keep sending to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but since I've asked seb128@ the first one just fails
[07:07] <Kamion> well, maybe daily is per-release
[07:07] <jdub> hoary/daily/20041205/ <- ?
[07:07] <lamont> +#if !defined(I_KNOW_ALL_ABOUT_SUDO)
[07:07] <lamont> that's upstream's version
[07:08] <jdub> Kamion: red hat's ftp layout might be useful to check out too
[07:08] <Kamion> jdub: the other problem with warty, hoary, etc. is that they sort abysmally badly
[07:08] <jdub> yeah
[07:08] <jdub> as do 4.10
[07:08] <Kamion> 4.10 is ok
[07:08] <jdub> or, not so badly
[07:08] <jdub> until we get to 10.10
[07:08] <Kamion> sure, when we hit 2010 it sucks a little, but only once
[07:08] <lamont> depends on whether the next one is 5.04 or 5.4...
[07:08] <jdub> heh
[07:08] <seb128> jdub: I'll upload evolution 2.0 in about 20 min, be ready to update webcal and connector :)
[07:08] <Kamion> it's pretty obvious to the human eye what's going on
[07:08] <Kamion> lamont: has to be 5.04 I think
[07:08] <lamont> yes
[07:08] <jdub> seb128: you can't do those? :)
[07:09] <lamont> and 10.04 bump sucks for 18 months
[07:09] <jdub> seb128: would be good if you could add them to your run
[07:09] <seb128> jdub: if you want, but I don't want to hijack your packages :p
[07:09] <seb128> ok, fine
[07:09] <jdub> seb128: dude, this is ubuntu, they're all ours :)
[07:09] <seb128> +- 2 packages
[07:09] <Kamion> ok, so /cdimage/4.10/preview/ for tomorrow then?
[07:09] <seb128> that's nothing after the whole GNOME 2.8 stack :)
[07:10] <Kamion> jdub: Red Hat's has kind of the right idea but is way too deep
[07:10] <jdub> mmm, especially with the arch depth
[07:10] <Kamion> although I guess if you're starting at /pub/redhat/ it's ok, but the choice at that level is still a bit bewildering
[07:10] <Kamion> ccm, ccvs, edk, gnupro, <yawn>
[07:11] <jdub> heh
[07:12] <Kamion> /final/ does mean we absolutely cannot make point releases
[07:12] <Kamion> I suppose it could be 4.10r1
[07:13] <Kamion> but it would have to be in a different top-level cdimage directory; otherwise it's final-oops-we-lied
[07:13] <Kamion> and what about Mark's "redo CD images every time we do security updates" thing?
[07:14] <pitti> seb128: if you are too loaded with work, can I help you with some easy changes?
[07:14] <pitti> seb128: #1201 maybe?
[07:14] <jdub> Kamion: not sure he wants to do that now
[07:15] <seb128> no thanks, I'm building evolution 2.0 right now
[07:15] <Kamion> jdub: phew
[07:15] <seb128> and #1201 is in it
[07:15] <jdub> Kamion: perhaps come up with something that sounds sensible, and hit the sounder list with it?
[07:15] <pitti> seb128: okay, great.
[07:16] <pitti> seb128: do you need German translations for #1188? (OO.o menu entries)
[07:16] <seb128> pitti: thanks, but my todo list for tomorrow is ok, I'm almost update with 2.8 packaging
[07:16] <pitti> seb128: okay, did not want to disturb you. My todo list is already empty
[07:16] <seb128> pitti: you can attach them to the bug report if you want, but not sure I'll have time for translations
[07:16] <lamont> pitti: I'm there with you...  Todo list has stuff, but nothing that's 'before preview'
[07:16] <seb128> pitti: but I've > 30 bugs opened, so if you want to dig on some of them feel free :)
[07:17] <lamont> er, that is, if sabdfl and I are done rehashing postfix...
[07:17] <seb128> (but no hurry for tomorrow)
[07:17] <lamont> sabdfl: you around?
[07:17] <pitti> lamont: that means I can actually go to my Tae Kwon Do training this evening? I did not attend to it for two weeks now
[07:17] <lamont> pitti: but, it's TKD... :-)
[07:18] <pitti> seb128: I will attach the translations. I will look into your bugs
[07:18] <pitti> lamont: so what?
[07:18] <lamont> pitti: was alluding to the fact that martial arts are like religion. "Mine is most correct!", for all values of "mine".
[07:19] <pitti> lamont: maybe. I don't do it because of the philosophical part :-) It's good workout, trains both muscles and brain
[07:19] <lamont> I do it for (1) the workout, and (2) self defense application.
[07:19] <lamont> (2) is where the religion comes in...
[07:20] <jdub> lamont: hrm, are your uploads getting critical/blocker bugs and confirmations from matt?
[07:20] <lamont> in that not everything taught is gonna actually work...
[07:20] <lamont> jdub: umm...
[07:20] <jdub> lamont: see sounder list
[07:21] <lamont> dvd+rw-tools had RC status, at least...
[07:21] <jdub> this is not nam
[07:21] <lamont> jdub: any particular subject to dig for?
[07:21] <jdub> this is bowling
[07:21] <jdub> there are rules
[07:21] <jdub> ;-)
[07:22] <jdub> PreviewFreeze in effect!
[07:22] <lamont> jdub: my bad.  was still operating on the '>=major' line of things.
[07:23] <jdub> 8)
[07:24] <seb128> lamont: how are the GNOME builds going ? Any FTBFS ?
[07:24] <thom> Kamion: um, looks like your last change has broken base-installer
[07:25] <lamont> seb128: you mean besides pango?
[07:25] <lamont>  /bin/sh: line 1: ./configure: No such file or directory
[07:25] <seb128> pango did that ?
[07:25] <lamont> yep.
[07:25] <lamont> want the full log?
[07:25] <lamont> all 250 lines or so of it?
[07:25] <seb128> please ping me about build failures
[07:25] <seb128> yes please
[07:25] <seb128> just mail the log
[07:25] <lamont><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:25] <seb128> yes
[07:26] <seb128> thanks
[07:26] <lamont> tossed ppc, others are same failure.
[07:27] <thom> Kamion: "eval: 3: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
[07:29] <Kamion> thom: uh, I did test that ... what architecture?
[07:29] <thom> x86
[07:30] <Kamion> thom: incidentally, how do you know? I haven't built new CDs with the new base-installer yet
[07:30] <lamont> jdub: and mdz did say "ship it" for dvd+rw-tools.... :-)
[07:30] <jdub> lamont: cool
[07:30] <thom> Kamion: local mirror and netboot
[07:30] <lamont> just here, not in IRC... :-0
[07:30] <Kamion> oh, netboot
[07:30] <Kamion> hmmmmmm
[07:30] <lamont> er., email
[07:31] <Kamion> thom: can you reboot, stick 'set -x' at the top of /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-installer.postinst when it appears, and look at /var/log/syslog to see where it's failing?
[07:32] <thom> Kamion: sure
[07:32] <Kamion> ta
[07:32] <Kamion> hm, one possible mistake is that components should be comma-separated, not space-separated
[07:42] <Kamion> thom: I'm pretty sure that if you change 'COMPONENTS="main restricted"' to 'COMPONENTS="main,restricted"' in /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-installer.postinst, it'll be fine
[07:44] <thom> yeah, that's the fix
[07:44] <Kamion> it works?
[07:44] <Kamion> did linux-restricted-modules-<IP_ADDRESS>-2 get installed?
[07:45] <thom> still retreiving
[07:48] <thom> Kamion: hrm, i'm getting asked what kernel to install now
[07:48] <Kamion> suggests dropped debconf priority, were there earlier errors?
[07:48] <thom> guess the errors dropped me back, sorry
[07:49] <thom> i'll try from the top again
[07:49] <Kamion> thanks
[07:50] <jdub> anyone use i855crt?
[07:51] <thom> i have done, yeah
[07:52] <Kinnison> can anyone tell me what python's equiv of perl's pack/unpack functions are?
[07:53] <mdz> Kamion: did sounder 8 have <IP_ADDRESS> on i386?
[07:53] <Kamion> mdz: are you saying that X will already prefer the nvidia binary module if it's present?
[07:53] <Kamion> mdz: because as of today we install nvidia-kernel-common by default; it's a dependency of linux-restricted-modules
[07:53] <mdz> Kamion: I am not sure, but it should be quite straightforward to implement, given that nv and nvidia cover the same cards
[07:54] <mdz> Kamion: the X driver is in nvidia-glx
[07:54] <Kamion> ah, ok
[07:54] <sivang> Kamion : was an auto custome ubuntu build script done yet? (you rememebr we talked about)
[07:55] <Kamion> mdz: broke netboot insta. Sorry about this. The relevant part of the change was:
[07:55] <Kamion> oops
[07:55] <Kamion> mdz: http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/sounder-test/8/warty-i386-1.list says yes
[07:55] <Kamion> sivang: I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean
[07:56] <sivang> Kamion : you told me how you tear apart an iso, update it and then remake it.
[07:56] <jdub> thom: n/m, got it to work
[07:56] <Kamion> sivang: I'm afraid I'm far too busy with the warty preview at the moment
[07:57] <Kamion> so, no
[07:57] <sivang> Kamion : ok, i can try have a go at this, i don't remember who suggested i'd take it as a challange :)
[07:58] <Kamion> mdz: John was talking about a DVD burner on woody, not warty ... you didn't misread did you?
[07:58] <mdz> Kamion: oh, apparently I did
[07:59] <thom> Kamion: i still get asked whether i want to install grub on the mbr, dunno whether that needs/wants to change
[07:59] <thom> besides that, i'm just rebooting into base-config
[07:59] <Kamion> aargh
[07:59] <kagou> hi
[07:59] <thom> yeah, that sucks hard
[08:00] <mdz> yes, it does
[08:00] <mdz> someone file a bug about it
[08:00] <mdz> I could have sworn that older firefox didn't do that
[08:00] <mdz> seems more likely to be a browser issue than a bugzilla issue, but I dunno
[08:00] <thom> Kamion: and what /is/ the difference between London and Belfast? :-)
[08:01] <jdub> thom: hrm, did you get an ugly X cursor up the top left when you used i855crt?
[08:01] <thom> yeah
[08:01] <thom> known bug, i believe
[08:01] <lamont> thom: there's a dfference?
[08:01] <jdub> and the crt blanks out
[08:01] <thom> lamont: according to base-config
[08:01] <jdub> for powersaving or whatever
[08:03] <Kamion> thom: I'd like to know
[08:03] <Kamion> thom: I think glibc is deluded
[08:03] <lamont> it's that whole US supporting free-Ireland thing all over again???
[08:03] <thom> yeah, i think i agree
[08:03] <doko> kamion: did you fix the installer translations (base-installer)? I cannot find any not translated strings.
[08:03] <lamont> mdz: major, or just normal?
[08:03] <Kamion> doko: no
[08:03] <mdz> lamont: I'd say normal, but it should be filed upstream somewhere
[08:04] <Kamion> doko: it'll be stuff in base-installer/debootstrap/
[08:04] <lamont> doh
[08:04] <Kamion> doko: probably too late for preview though, I've already broken base-installer once today
[08:05] <lamont> mdz: which really wants a debian box to verify it on before tossing them the bug report....
[08:05] <doko> any proposal what should be worked on now?
[08:05] <seb128> lamont: you send the build log ?
[08:05] <lamont><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:05] <sivang> lamon : isn't it wise to leave one for sake of checking sid packages etc?
[08:05] <lamont> seb128: where do you want it?
[08:05] <seb128> I've a problem with my mails
[08:06] <seb128> I never received jdub mail some days ago
[08:06] <lamont> sivang: I only have the one desktop, and one laptop.  Those are warty.
[08:06] <lamont> I have a sid chroot that I can verify most bugs in...
[08:07] <seb128> lamont: could you resend on the same adress please ?