[07:08] <daubers> Morning
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:36] <MooDoo> :)
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> Sunday morning + Kings of Convenience = win
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:23] <AlanBell> so, 2 stroke oil. Is that a Halfords thing?
[08:40] <suprengr> AlanBell, http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=2+stroke+oil&x=0&y=0&action=search&storeId=10001&catalogId=10151&langId=-1
[08:40] <suprengr> guess that's a yes ;)
[08:41] <suprengr> [or a farm shop, or a m/cycle shop maybe?]
[08:41] <daubers> Motorbike shop would have it
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> GAH
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> that's the third time this morning that a part of Unity crashed on me
[08:50] <AlanBell> thanks suprengr and daubers, I will give halfords a go
[09:21] <daubers> Woot! Spinners updating dynamically from a database. Almost at the point where I can do the calculations this thing was built for now :)
[09:46] <bigcalm> How do you do a full update with apt-get? I used to know
[09:47] <bigcalm> 3 packages are being held back on a remote server
[10:01] <dogmatic69_> hi all
[10:01] <dogmatic69_> woke up this morning to my server down :/
[10:01] <dogmatic69_> cpu was at 100%
[10:02] <suprengr> dogmatic69, it's better to use an eider down....
[10:02] <dogmatic69_> ?
[10:02] <bigcalm> SUSHI!
[10:02]  * bigcalm departs
[10:03] <suprengr> (a 'quilt')
[10:03] <bigcalm> suprengr: heh, I got it :)
[10:03] <dogmatic69_> clearly missed that one
[10:07] <dogmatic69_> anything i should check
[10:13] <suprengr> I'd be checking temperature fast.  then look for dust &/or failed/failing cooling.... then memory... then software perhaps
[10:14] <suprengr> [& the NIC]
[10:16] <dogmatic69_> its in the cloud
[10:17] <suprengr> oh!
[10:18] <suprengr> methinks a lot of things 'down' atm... google search is in difficulties as well
[10:25] <suprengr> hmmm.... http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/07/10/0438252/Facebook-Helps-Israel-Blacklist-Air-Travellers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[10:26]  * suprengr apologises - meant to paste the tinyurl there
[10:36] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:36] <dogmatic69_> o/
[10:36] <brobostigon> o/
[10:48] <vflinux979> Hi
[10:49] <brobostigon> hi vflinux979
[10:49] <vflinux979> I was yesterday in the London Hacker Space
[10:49] <vflinux979> was greate
[10:50] <ging> your typo makes me hungry, it sounds like a type of cheese
[10:54] <brobostigon> :)
[10:54] <dogmatic69_> whats the odds of the last notw paper being worth something?
[10:55] <ging> about 5million to 1
[10:55] <dogmatic69_> :/
[10:55] <ging> because thats how many they're printing
[10:55] <dogmatic69_> well not immediately, but in time after 4.5 million are recycled
[10:56] <ging> they'll still be half a million which is probably 100x as many news paper colectors as there in in the country
[10:57]  * dogmatic69_ has a few copies just in case
[11:10] <suprengr> weeeee! F! starts on BBC... me go quiet now
[11:11] <ikonia> exacellent
[11:13]  * suprengr spots a rare ikonia typo ;)
[11:21]  * daubers has type conversion woes :(
[11:22] <daubers> 23.98 != 23.9799995422363
[11:23] <AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/217/
[11:28] <daubers> It's definatley when somethings being cast from a float to a double
[11:30]  * daubers tries going around the houses
[11:31] <daubers> interestingly if I go float -> string -> double it's fine
[11:36] <penguin42> what are you seeing?
[11:38] <daubers> penguin42: Hmmm?
[11:38] <penguin42> daubers: I didn't start of your casting problem - what was the problem?
[11:39] <daubers> daubers has type conversion woes
[11:39] <daubers> [12:22] daubers: 23.98 != 23.9799995422363
[11:39] <penguin42> well it's close :-)
[11:39] <daubers> penguin42: Not close enough for a sql matching exercise :)
[11:40] <penguin42> you should never try and match floats as strings for equality
[11:40] <penguin42> not unless you can set rounding etc
[11:43] <penguin42> daubers: The problem is that 23.98 just isn't representable in fp exactly
[11:45] <daubers> penguin42:  I'm not trying to match a float to a string :) When the data is put into sqlite, the sqlite library will only accept doubles, not floats, so it converts to a double then inserts into the db. So when I try and see if that float is in the db, it isn't because it's been converted into a weird number first
[11:46] <penguin42> daubers: Yeh but you see that's not a safe thing to do (as you've discovered)
[11:47]  * penguin42 doesn't know any sql stuff - but that seems a perfectly reasonable thing for it to do
[11:47] <daubers> penguin42:  To only accept doubles?
[11:47] <penguin42> daubers: Yeh - who would complain about storing something with _more_ precision
[11:47] <daubers> penguin42:  Interestingly, the field in the db is a float
[11:49] <daubers> penguin42:  If it wasn't for that fact, I'd agree with you
[11:50] <penguin42> daubers: If you want to be able to compare values like that then use either a string or a BCD; I don't know if sql can do approximate comparisons or ranges which is really what you need if you are comparing fp
[11:51] <daubers> penguin42:  I've made it work now :) I know the values in there are only going to be one of about 6 fp numbers and it works with all 6 and some really randome ones I picked out the air too
[11:51] <penguin42> yeuch
[11:52] <daubers> penguin42: I've written worse
[11:52] <penguin42> yeh - so have I :-)
[11:52] <ikonia> long shot but do any of you guys use a heart rate monitor watch ?
[11:57] <daubers> penguin42: It's for this http://www.daubers.co.uk/~matt/androidapp.png
[11:58] <daubers> ikonia: No...
[11:58] <ikonia> was a long shot
[11:59] <daubers> ikonia: Why?
[12:00] <ikonia> just looking for one to get a bit more info on some training, could use a experienced hand
[12:02] <daubers> ikonia: Might be worth sending a yell at tonytiger if he's around in the podcast channel. He runs, as does Ciemon
[12:02] <ikonia> what's the podcast channel
[12:02] <daubers> I think tonytiger runs anyway....
[12:03] <daubers> #ubuntu-uk-podcast
[12:03] <ikonia> I'll see if he's around, thank you
[13:14] <jacobw> MartijnVdS also runs
[13:14] <jacobw> t + 71 minutes
[13:36] <czajkowski> torchwood time
[13:42] <suprengr> czajkowski, where???
[13:43] <czajkowski> july14th on uk
[13:43] <czajkowski> on usa on juky 8th
[13:44] <suprengr> czajkowski,  :(   got all excited there!... but thanks anyway
[13:46]  * suprengr says bfn to avoid dropping off channel... 'borrowed' broadband link dying
[13:47] <gord> i stopped watching torchwood after they killed off the only characters i liked :(
[13:49] <jacobw> has anyone got bt infinity?
[13:49] <czajkowski> gord: go back and watch it
[13:49] <czajkowski> not saying any more
[13:50] <jacobw> also, the last timc was awesome :D
[13:50] <czajkowski> jacobw: the 5 day special the children......
[13:50] <czajkowski> was a bit odd
[13:53] <czajkowski> gord: did you like captain jack
[13:54] <jacobw> i don't think i've heard that one :|
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: I use a Polar watch.. let me find the type
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: FT4
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> it comes with a nice cloth strap (much better than the old plastic strap that came with my previous watch)
[14:02] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: does the heart rate come from a monitor on the watch, or do you need an external strap on your chest ?
[14:07] <gord> czajkowski, not really
[14:47] <penguin42> odd, my router has some messages about NTP clock is now unsynced - not seen those before
[15:08] <Adam_> hello people!
[15:09] <brobostigon> afternoonings Adam_
[15:11] <Adam_> Whats the general view concerning the creation of a ubuntu-uk forum?
[15:11] <brobostigon> it already exists,
[15:11] <Adam_> do u have a link
[15:11] <brobostigon> on the ubuntu forums
[15:12] <Adam_> u mean the sub loco forum
[15:13] <Adam_> what if I were to change the question slightly, does anyone feel a Ubuntu forum for for UK users would be of any benefit?
[15:15] <brobostigon> !forum
[15:15] <brobostigon> hmm,
[15:17] <ali1234> there is already a subforum forum for the UK and no one uses it
[15:18] <AlanBell> 2http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=274
[15:18] <brobostigon> ali1234: spot on, i am trying to find it.
[15:19] <brobostigon> thank AlanBell :)
[15:19] <AlanBell> the geeknic could be unstickied now I guess
[15:20] <AlanBell> wonder if maco2 can do that
[15:20] <ali1234> 3 posts in the past 2 months
[15:20] <brobostigon> Adam_: see AlanBell's link, we already have a forum,
[15:23] <Adam_> In a broader sense, would you be inclined to say the lack of active participation in the UK loco forum
[15:23] <Adam_> would be applicable on a UK user forum if one existed?
[15:23] <brobostigon> this has been discussed,
[15:24] <Adam_> it has? Where can i find more info?
[15:24] <brobostigon> and that because of cultural differences, it isnt in our nature, to use the forums, but to use the mailing list, and irc.
[15:24] <AlanBell> Adam_: what do you mean?
[15:25] <AlanBell> are you proposing to set something up outside of the ubuntu forums?
[15:25] <Adam_> yese
[15:25] <Adam_> *yes
[15:26] <AlanBell> ok, lets turn that round, why do you think one outside of the ubuntuforums.org namespace would be more successful?
[15:26] <Adam_> not specific to uk-ubuntu but for UK users as a whole
[15:26] <brobostigon> so linux geneally ?
[15:26] <brobostigon> generally?
[15:27] <Adam_> I feel the main ubuntuforums can be very busy at times, so busy that many users do not get the help the need
[15:27] <AlanBell> that cuts both ways
[15:27] <brobostigon> the same could be said about #ubuntu
[15:28] <shauno> the corollary to that is that if there's no-one there, there's no-one to help
[15:28] <brobostigon> hence having seperate forum, as well as irc channel.
[15:29] <AlanBell> Adam_: I am not averse to the idea of doing something new, you just have to articulate what is new about it
[15:29] <AlanBell> we set up a facebook page recently, which we should probably put more stuff on
[15:29] <brobostigon> what is the USP, wht is different??
[15:30] <AlanBell> as soon as Google Plus has something that organisations can use then we probably will do whatever that ends up being (there are no groups or pages yet)
[15:30] <brobostigon> that we dont have already, that will make peopleuse that, thanwhat we have already.
[15:31] <ali1234> lack of help on ubuntu forums is not because they are "busy"
[15:31] <ali1234> it's because they are full of idiots
[15:31] <brobostigon> if ubuntu-uk as a whole doesnt use he forums  already, then it could be said, that such an idea, is dead. however, if a new forum were to be astablished, what would make people use said forum, that doesnt alreayd allow for,
[15:32] <ali1234> and the biggest idiots also post the most frequently
[15:34] <Adam_> do you use the ubuntuforums ali1234?
[15:35]  * brobostigon doesnt like forums, for various reasons,
[15:35] <ali1234> every time i have attempted to use them i have received nothing but terrible answers
[15:36] <ali1234> usually i get no answer at all except something useless from a forum warrior with 9,000,000 posts all saying "have you tried turning it off and then on again?"
[15:36] <brobostigon> the "sudo su" and sudo gksudo, situation, is a good example.
[15:37] <AlanBell> this is a biased audience, a lot of people do like forums, and don't like IRC at all
[15:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: also i have seen on the forums, potentially, damaging and dangerous things, being unnecceserily suggested.
[15:37] <AlanBell> but that is kind of irrelevant
[15:38] <AlanBell> the proposal to set up some kind of new forum could be interesting and could work, if it is in some way different
[15:39] <shauno> I'd be curious what it actually stands to gain.  otherwise it's an answer looking for a problem
[15:39] <ali1234> this is my experience with pretty much all forums, not just the ubuntu ones
[15:39] <brobostigon> that will allow people tohave something, that doesnt already exist.
[15:40]  * penguin42 doesn't use forums really; more mailing lists and irc - but I can see some of the idea of them
[15:40] <ali1234> forums are mailing lists for people who think the blue e == the internet, and that is the main problem with them
[15:41] <ali1234> the way i see it the most important function of the ubuntu forums is keeping all those people far, far away from the mailing lists and irc :)
[15:42] <penguin42> haha
[15:42] <AlanBell> I hate having to go through lists of stuff a page at a time, I just don't think a web browser (without ajax based background retrieval of stuff for continuous strolling) is a particularly good client for collaboration
[15:43] <penguin42> AlanBell: I wish lp would do that as well
[15:43] <AlanBell> a forum with a desktop client would be good though
[15:43] <ali1234> i can't stand those infinite scrolling pages
[15:44] <penguin42> ali1234: Why?
[15:44] <ali1234> because you can never scroll to the bottom
[15:44] <penguin42> hmm
[15:45] <ali1234> the main reason i dont like them is because of how they mess with the scroll bar
[15:45] <shauno> that's about the one thing they could do with forums to make them useful for me.  an nntp gateway.
[15:45] <brobostigon> if it has to be text based, then some more collbaroative along the ines of whatwe had with google wave, would be better in my mind.
[15:45] <ali1234> if it's a long page i like to scroll by dragging the scroll bar, except on those it bounces around all over the place when more stuff loads in
[15:45] <ali1234> so i can't do that
[15:45] <ali1234> not that it matters now that scrollbars have been made unusable
[15:46] <ali1234> the other bad thing about them is when they don't fire properly
[15:46] <ali1234> and you get to the bottom of the page and nothing happens
[15:46] <brobostigon> ali1234: that isnt antirly accurate, you only experience that with unity, not with gnome3.
[15:46] <ali1234> and there's no "next" button
[15:47] <ali1234> and you have to start scrolling up and down repeatedly trying to trigger the "load some more" function
[15:47] <ali1234> and that takes like 30 seconds
[15:47] <ali1234> and it would have been much easier for everyone if they just put a "next" button instead of this stupidness
[15:48] <penguin42> ali1234: With google reader I find it's already got more by the time you've got to the bottom so there is no waiting
[15:48] <shauno> I found myself liking the ones where it's a mix between the two.  there's a link to load more, than appends it to the original page.  rather than trying to guess when to do it automatically
[15:48] <ali1234> well google reader is just a mess
[15:48] <penguin42> ali1234: I like it because it removes the wait when you press the next button
[15:48] <ali1234> it has even worse problems with it's UI than the scrolling
[15:49] <brobostigon> but the worst is, i cant directlygo to what is useful with a forum, i have to trawl through loads of stuff that isnt useful before i get to something useful.
[15:51] <ali1234> yes you can
[15:51] <ali1234> forum can do anything a mailing list can do
[15:51] <ali1234> it's just a lot more difficult
[15:52] <AlanBell> the Lotus Notes client got scrollbars right, the view tells the client the total document count so it can position and size the scrollbar correctly, then you can scroll to any point and it loads the content that should be there
[15:52] <ali1234> most forums have a "subscribe to thread" feature
[15:52] <ali1234> this is extremely useful
[15:52] <ali1234> because i can watch the threads i posted in without having to ever see the rest of the site
[15:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: agreed, i have exactly that, on several xda threads.
[15:53] <neuro> bah, forums
[15:53] <ali1234> xda forums is the worrrrrst
[15:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: however the android aosp vrsion iuse,is maintained there, so i have no choice.
[15:54] <ali1234> who is it maintained by?
[15:54] <ali1234> all the real developers of that stuff are on irc
[15:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: ezterry.
[15:56] <ali1234> never heard of em
[15:57] <brobostigon> ali1234: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882356
[15:58] <penguin42> thing I hate about most forums is the top is normally a big banner; the right side is normally full of adverts, the left side is taken up with stuff about the poster (including a gratuitous picture, the date they joined and inside leg measurement) and then that leaves 3 words in the middel of the display
[15:58] <ali1234> wow people are still using the dream and sapphire??
[15:58] <brobostigon> ali1234: most definatly, yes.
[15:59] <ali1234> the thing i hate most about forums, which i realised when visiting xda forums just now, is when they have a thread that says "ask questions in this thread, don't make a new one" and the thread is 9000 pages long
[15:59] <ali1234> guaranteeing that nobody will ever read it
[16:00] <brobostigon> true point.
[16:01] <ali1234> except the forum warriors of course
[16:01] <ali1234> who will duly respond with their standard unhelpful replies
[16:01] <penguin42> and to those forum lovers reading the transcript of this channel - hard luck!
[16:02] <Adam_> I guess I asked the wrong group of people lol
[16:02] <ali1234> yes most definitely
[16:02] <ali1234> of course, if you ask on some forum, you will get replies along the lines of "what's wrong with this one?"
[16:03] <AlanBell> Adam_: what forum software are you proposing?
[16:03] <ali1234> or if you ask on the loco forum you'll get tumbleweeds
[16:03] <Adam_> I was thinking of using a free server such as forumotion
[16:03] <Adam_> *service
[16:03] <AlanBell> oh, I wouldn't go for that
[16:03] <brobostigon> Adam_: as is said, there a reason why our loco forums dont get used much.
[16:04] <AlanBell> Free software on a server we manage, maybe
[16:04] <ali1234> Adam_: have you ever used ubuntu stack exchange?
[16:04] <Adam_> nope
[16:04] <AlanBell> askubuntu.com
[16:04] <ali1234> it's much better than a forum for getting decent help
[16:04] <ali1234> and people actually do use it
[16:05] <AlanBell> we *could* set up a shapado instance for the UK, but I wouldn't, that kind of thing works better with as many users as possible
[16:06] <ali1234> a what now?
[16:06] <AlanBell> shapado is a ruby on rails free software implementation of the stack exchange concept
[16:06] <ali1234> oh, ok
[16:06] <AlanBell> you don't need to go through the incubation process and prove you are active before they let you have one
[16:07] <ali1234> i think that process is a good thing tbh
[16:07] <AlanBell> so do I
[16:07] <AlanBell> unless you are not going to meet the criteria
[16:10] <ali1234> *especially* if you don't meet the criteria
[16:11] <AlanBell> yeah, true enough
[16:12] <ali1234> think about it: you could set up a ubuntu-uk instance, then totally forget about it
[16:12] <ali1234> then people will be asking questions and nobody will be reading it
[16:13] <ali1234> kind of like how the forum is now
[16:13] <AlanBell> yes, indeed
[16:13] <AlanBell> shapado has its uses though
[16:13] <ali1234> a stack exchange with no users is worse than not having one at all if it gives people false hope :)
[16:13] <ali1234> and you do need a certainly level of activity to make anything like that work
[16:14]  * penguin42 wonders when the search engines will get smart enough to find answers to questions
[16:14] <ali1234> even irc and forums need a certain number of users, otherwise nobody posts because nobody posts
[16:14]  * suprengr wondeers... what's the situation with Firefox's "rolling" releases verses 10.04 LTS [or any LTS]
[16:14] <suprengr> *wonders
[16:45] <daubers> Oooooh... new 2.3.4 update for SGS2 has been leaked
[16:45] <daubers> Just need a USB host shield once thats official :)
[16:46]  * bigcalm has had 2.3.4 for a while now :)
[16:47] <daubers> bigcalm: Nexus S?
[16:47] <bigcalm> N1
[16:48] <bigcalm> CyanogenMod 7.1rc1
[16:48] <daubers> ah, ok :)
[16:48] <bigcalm> ;)
[16:48] <brobostigon> also had 2.3.4 onmy htc dream, or a few months.
[16:48] <brobostigon> for*
[16:49] <daubers> I only got my new phone a week and a bit ago
[16:49] <brobostigon> :)
[16:49] <daubers> Have to admit, it's a lot nice to use than the pre
[16:52] <brobostigon> not tried webos myself yet.
[16:53] <daubers> It has a lot of promise, shame the first round of devices where too underpowered to make it worthwhile
[16:56] <brobostigon> ah, i see.
[16:58] <ali1234> i don't understand why everyone loves webos so much
[17:00] <directhex> ali1234, because it's the mobile os with the cleanest UX
[17:01]  * popey chuckles at the forum discussion
[17:02] <popey> ali1234: I can unsticky
[17:02] <popey> er AlanBell
[17:02] <popey> AlanBell: done
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: You need a chest strep that comes with the watch (in the same box)
[17:04] <MattJ> Does anyone have any recommendations for software for recording audio/video from a webcam?
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: recording to disk?
[17:04] <MattJ> I was using Cheese, but it doesn't seem very reliable
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: ffmpeg :)
[17:04] <MattJ> To disk
[17:05] <MattJ> Does it work with PulseAudio?
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> yes
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> http://www.alex.ballas.org/2010/11/13/ffmpeg-camaudio-recording-pulseaudio/
[17:05] <MattJ> Nice, thanks
[17:10] <popey> ali1234 / AlanBell to be fair I suspect there are a large number of UK residents who use the forums, but they aren't in the loco.
[17:10] <popey> same goes for irc
[17:11] <popey> there's a few people who arrive in #ubuntu and get (and give) support but aren't "in" the loco at all
[17:11] <AlanBell> yes indeed
[17:11] <MattJ101> I should have known better than try to use Empathy for IRC
[17:12] <directhex> MattJ: i agree, as someone who works with empathy devs
[17:13] <MattJ> directhex, sure, Empathy isn't bad, and neither are the devs :)
[17:13] <directhex> MattJ: irc isn't suited to an IM client
[17:13] <MattJ> Indeed
[17:13] <ali1234> that's a weak excuse
[17:13] <MattJ> Not that I expected it to crash
[17:14] <ali1234> irc is nothing but IM with multiple participants
[17:16] <directhex> ali1234: not so much. you're thinking of XMPP MUC.
[17:17] <ali1234> no
[17:17] <ali1234> all protocols support multiple participants in a chat
[17:17] <ali1234> if your IM program is too rubbish to handle that, then it's too rubbish for any protocol
[17:18] <directhex> IM is based around people. people have identities. IRC has no concept of identity beyond the ephemeral - despite the efforts of every one of hundreds of IRC servers to graft it on after the event
[17:18] <ali1234> once again, no
[17:18] <MattJ> Since this isn't XMPP, could someone paste me the ffmpeg link again please?
[17:18] <ali1234> IM is based around you type a message, and it comes out on someone else's computer
[17:18] <MattJ> I lost it when Empathy crashed
[17:19] <directhex> ali1234: whose computer?
[17:19] <ali1234> that is decided by the server, not the IM client
[17:19] <ali1234> so it is irrelevant
[17:20] <ali1234> and it is that way whether you use IRC or jabber or MSN or any of the others
 http://www.alex.ballas.org/2010/11/13/ffmpeg-camaudio-recording-pulseaudio/
[17:26] <MattJ> Thanks directhex :)
[17:26] <popey> oooo that looks handy
[17:27] <MattJ> ./record-camera: line 3: ffmpeg: command not found
[17:27] <MattJ> Not a good start ;)
[17:28] <popey> i had to compile my own ffmpeg today ☹
[17:28]  * MattJ just set up a new machine with 11.04
[17:28] <popey> silly non-free bits missing
[17:28] <AlanBell> popey: tried the G+ video upload yet?
[17:28] <popey> nope
[17:28] <MattJ> "Unknown encoder 'libx264'"
[17:28] <MattJ> \o/
[17:29]  * directhex is compiling OOo
[17:29] <popey> exactly
[17:29] <popey> thats why
[17:29] <popey> also faac
[17:29]  * AlanBell expects to see "* directhex has compiled OOo" on tuesday
[17:29] <MattJ> Heh
[17:29] <directhex> AlanBell: doesn't even build, tbh
[17:29]  * MattJ installs terminator
[17:30] <AlanBell> yeah, when LibreOffice first came out I downloaded the source and totally failed to build it
[17:31] <directhex> sod it, i'll fix it when rene contacts me about it being broken
[18:06] <suprengr> Having a Sunday afternoon bath=good: falling asleep in a Sunday afternoon bath=good; waking up a in a Sunday evening bath=bad!
[18:06] <suprengr> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[18:09] <zleap> lol
[18:09] <StevenR> suprengr: was the bath cold when you woke up?
[18:10] <StevenR> (if so, have another bath to warm up :) )
[18:10] <suprengr> sort of an ice-box really - & once is enough - I'll use the dressing gown for warming up thanks
[18:13] <suprengr> ...but then again - when you've taken the phrase " knock yourself out" a bit too literally earlier in week ... I'll take all the sleep from relaxing I can
[18:13]  * suprengr feels lump on hear - whopee! it's going down!
[18:13] <suprengr> *head
[18:30] <penguin42> how did you do that?
[18:33] <zleap> do what
[18:36] <penguin42> I just wondered how suprengr knocked himself out
[18:38] <zleap> not sure
[18:41] <czajkowski> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2011-July/msg00006.html
[18:46] <penguin42> oh that's fun
[18:46] <zleap> btw topic for channel gives next meeting as 6th July
[18:46] <penguin42> almost as good as the infridgement the other month
[18:48] <suprengr> Pendulum, working on hardware can be a dangerous thing - 'specially if that hardware is a money machine
[18:48] <AlanBell> itym penguin42
[18:48]  * penguin42 swings back and forwards
[18:48] <suprengr> penguin42, working on hardware can be a dangerous thing - 'specially if that hardware is a money machine#
[18:49] <suprengr> [soz pend
[18:49] <penguin42> suprengr: Haha well erm still an achievement
[18:49] <suprengr> yeh ;)
[18:55] <AlanBell> making the next meeting on a saturday to mix things up a bit, just before the geeknic and we can decide if we are ready to go for reapproval then
[18:58] <brobostigon> good plan AlanBell.
[18:59] <suprengr> +1
[18:59] <brobostigon> new top gear,
[18:59] <brobostigon> apparently.
[18:59] <suprengr> cheers brobostigon - switchin channel now
[18:59]  * popey has two tickets for top gear
[18:59] <popey> need to book that
[19:00] <brobostigon> popey spotting, :)
[19:00] <popey> hah
[19:00]  * suprengr is jealous of popey
[19:00] <brobostigon> i would rather tickets for HIGNFY.
[19:01]  * AlanBell wonders if Clarkson will make an "Elvis is in the building" comment
[19:01] <popey> I will do my best to look elvis-like
[19:01] <brobostigon> lol
[19:01] <brobostigon> :)
[19:02] <daubers> Speaking of Elvis, I really need a haircut :(
[19:02] <brobostigon> suprengr: now.
[19:02] <suprengr> :)
[19:05] <bigcalm> popey: are you manually posting to G+ the things that you tweet?
[19:05]  * brobostigon admits to fancying a little super7.
[19:08] <brobostigon> lotus/caterham super7.
[19:17] <AlanBell> http://www.watercressonline.co.uk/section.php?xSec=191 anyone fancy a beer on a train?
[19:17] <AlanBell> I know popey and TheOpenSourcerer and czajkowski are likely to
[19:20] <czajkowski> likely to what
[19:21] <brobostigon> go*
[19:21] <AlanBell> czajkowski: beer train
[19:21] <brobostigon> i dont recognise any of the place that arent sold out.
[19:21] <brobostigon> places*
[19:22] <czajkowski> AlanBell: not sure tbh
[19:22] <czajkowski> november is ages away
[19:22] <AlanBell> those are the brewerys, the train is in Alton all the time
[19:23] <popey> AlanBell: lies
[19:23] <popey> it moves up and down the track
[19:23] <AlanBell> this is true
[19:23] <popey> so you mentioned video upload on g+
[19:23] <popey> how do you do that>
[19:23] <AlanBell> I did
[19:23] <popey> I have a video I want to upload
[19:24] <AlanBell> at the top there is a video thing under the comment box
[19:24] <brobostigon> i linked a nice vid from youtube, from carl sagan, on google+ earlier.
[19:24] <AlanBell> click that a second time and a dropdown appears allowing you to upload
[19:25] <AlanBell> I was going to make another chick-flick with titles done in Blender
[19:26] <popey> I just made a video which was testing out a screencasty script I have
[19:26] <brobostigon> chick-flick, eh, huh, pansy.
[19:26] <daubers> AlanBell: I could be tempted again
[19:26] <popey> works a -treat-
[19:26] <brobostigon> sorry, apologies.
[19:27] <brobostigon> AlanBell is not a pansy.
[19:27] <AlanBell> neither is my chicken
[19:27] <brobostigon> :)
[19:28] <AlanBell> I was going to to a video short entitled "Clarabelle lays an egg"
[19:28] <brobostigon> :)
[19:29] <dogmatic69_> popey: what you recoding?
[19:30] <brobostigon> minecraft, ?
[19:30] <popey> uploading!
[19:31] <popey> uploading to youtube and google at the same time :D
[19:31] <brobostigon> cool.
[19:37] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmJ__7OaSF0
[19:38] <popey> should work?
[19:41] <Myrtti> seems like it
[19:44] <popey> cool
[19:44] <czajkowski> popey: really clear
[19:45] <popey> win
[19:45] <popey> shame the google video upload just failed
[19:45] <czajkowski> hear you running through the grass
[19:45] <czajkowski> funky
[19:47] <Myrtti> had to listen to my theme tune of the past year
[19:47] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w
[19:47] <Myrtti> while in youtube
[19:56] <popey> Myrtti: tis fantastic :D
[19:56] <AlanBell> need to add a minecraft section to the reapproval application I think
[19:56] <oracology> Myrtti: that video is awesome!
[20:00] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hvwCmYQsZE
[20:01] <Myrtti> I have it as a ringtone, because I need to be reminded "This Too Shall Pass"
[20:16] <suprengr> bfn
[20:44] <zleap> anyone remember linux world magazine circa 1997
[20:58]  * AlanBell renders the title sequence for "Clarabelle Lays an Egg"
[20:59] <Azelphur> what's the sane thing to use if I want to insert events into google calendar automagically in python?
[20:59] <Azelphur> I see there's a google lib, but is there something more generic I could use that'd work with google and everything else?
[21:05] <shauno> what's "everything else"?  I don't think google calendar uses caldav
[21:07] <Azelphur> shauno: I'm not much on calendar tech, but isn't there other stuff people use too?
[21:08] <shauno> not really :/
[21:08] <shauno> ical uses caldav, which is meant to be a standard, but no-one else uses it
[21:08] <Azelphur> haha
[21:08] <shauno> ginger babies use exchange
[21:08] <shauno> etc
[21:08] <Azelphur> \o/
[21:09] <shauno> there's a reason you can't find a sensible way to work with everything.  there's very few contenders for 'everything', and they all hate each other
[21:09] <Azelphur> I see :)
[21:10] <shauno> (facebook should probably figure in that list somewhere, since I seem to know a disturbing amount of people that use it to create events)
[21:21] <zleap> nite all
[21:23] <popey> AlanBell: you using blender?
[21:23] <AlanBell> through openshot, yes
[21:24] <popey> make a video showing how pls ☺
[21:26] <AlanBell> easy peasy
[21:28]  * popey installs openshot and blender in anticipation
[21:29] <AlanBell> don't install blender
[21:29]  * popey also notes that openshot has a much improved UI
[21:29] <popey> oh
[21:29] <AlanBell> well you can, but you won't use that one
[21:29] <popey> ah
[21:29] <AlanBell> you need a shiny new one, but you don't need it installed
[21:29] <AlanBell> the one in oneiric is new enough, but Natty isn't
[21:30] <daubers> Gah!  An IP address with 275 in it IS NOT VALID
[21:31] <AlanBell> neither is a phone number with 555 in it
[21:32] <daubers> :(
[21:32] <AlanBell> which is why when you see a phone number in a film it will always have 555 in it
[21:33] <shauno> that's not always true :/  one of our lines at work is 800-555-nnnn.  and it works!
[21:33] <AlanBell> I am slightly wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_%28telephone_number%29
[21:33] <popey> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/numbering/guidance-tele-no/numbers-for-drama
[21:34] <popey> bah, I'm on natty
[21:35] <shauno> I found out a little while ago, that the old-style area codes in the UK are numbered for the exchange's name
[21:35] <AlanBell> natty is fine
[21:35] <popey> they were
[21:35] <shauno> I never knew that :)
[21:35] <popey> my mum was a GPO telephonist about 40 years ago
[21:36] <AlanBell> popey: http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/ download and unpack, but don't install
[21:36] <AlanBell> then in openshot preferences set the blender path to something like /home/alan/Downloads/blender/blender
[21:36] <popey> ok
[21:37] <shauno> I figured barrow and carlisle were right next to each other (0229 and 0228) because they were the only big towns around.  turns out 22 is BA, and CA.  this was a stunning revelation :)  (yes, I don't get out much)
[21:39] <popey> hehe
[21:39] <popey> its funny when you learn stuff like that
[21:39] <popey> my fave one of those planning things is the one about the motorways around london
[21:40] <popey> if you look at london the ones that go out north east are numbered 1, A1, M1, A10, south east is 2, A2, A20, south west is 3, A3, A30, M3, north west is 4, A40, M40, M4..
[21:40] <BigRedS> that's all motorways and a-roads
[21:40] <popey> well yes
[21:40] <BigRedS> they're around london, cardiff and, er, whichever one is the capital of scotland :)
[21:41] <daubers> BigRedS: London?
[21:41] <daubers> :p
[21:41] <BigRedS> I'm still a bit amused where the 'majorness' has changed over time. Like the some of the A406 being rather more main than a lot of the A1
[21:42] <BigRedS> I think thre's only one motorway in scotland and it links the two, so it's irrelevant anyway :)
[21:42] <daubers> Theres only one motorway in Wales and it leads out of Wales....
[21:42] <bigcalm> ;)
[21:42] <BigRedS> haha, oh yeah
[21:50] <popey> AlanBell: then what? ☺
[21:51] <AlanBell> then you want to create a new animated title
[21:52] <AlanBell> I am rendering a glare one at the moment
[21:52] <AlanBell> basically it creates 250 .png files with transparency
[21:52] <AlanBell> so you can overlay it as a sequence on a video clip
[21:53] <popey> oh neat
[21:53] <AlanBell> Fly towards camera is quite nice
[21:54] <AlanBell> and openshot has lots of nice transitions too
[21:55] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2011-July/013387.html
[21:55] <popey> *blech*
[21:55] <AlanBell> eww
[21:55] <AlanBell> old title font
[21:55] <AlanBell> old circle of friends
[21:55] <AlanBell> icky colours
[21:56] <AlanBell> psd file source
[21:57] <popey> good isnt it
[21:58] <AlanBell> sad thing is that someone put some time and effort into that
[21:59] <StevenR> hrrm. anyone used openvpn? I'd like the network-manager-openvpn thing to not modify the default route
[21:59] <StevenR> but it wants to pass the default route through the vpn
[22:03] <ali1234> "not sure if troll"
[22:04] <ali1234> StevenR: route configuration with openvpn is something you do in the config file
[22:04] <ali1234> i have no idea how you control it through an nm plugin
[22:04] <ali1234> you probably can't
[22:04] <ali1234> but openvpn itself has lots of options for controlling routing
[22:04] <ali1234> too many in fact
[22:05] <ali1234> making it work can be extremely difficult
[22:19] <StevenR> ali1234: I managed :) ... in nm you say "Use this connection for resources only on it's network" and configure the push "route net mask gw" lines on the server side :)
[22:19] <StevenR> the nm checkbox actually means "Don't make the vpn the default route"
[22:43]  * StevenR does the "my OpenVPN vpn actually works" happydance
[22:43] <hamitron> :)
[22:43] <BigRedS> whoo!
[22:44] <BigRedS> That's a bit like halley's comet, though
[22:44] <BigRedS> now nobody else will be able to get it to work for another few thousand years
[22:48] <StevenR> BigRedS: yeah. I know.
[22:49] <StevenR> Dear RestOfWorld, Sorry for stealing all of the OpenVPN Magick for the next 227 million attempts. Sincerly, StevenR
[22:50] <BigRedS> haha
[22:50] <BigRedS> it's not your fault the universe and openvpn don't get along :)
[22:51] <StevenR> for my next trick, I have to make it work so I can somehow connect to my parents' house and admin their systems.
[22:52]  * popey just uses ssh
[22:55] <HazRPG> \o
[22:57] <StevenR> popey: yeah, I'm looking for something that will auto-dial my house somehow.
[22:58] <StevenR> popey: at least, I think I am :) ... more thought and experimentation is required
[22:59] <HazRPG> StevenR: Hmm? Like a dial-up modem?
[22:59] <popey> why dial your house?
[22:59] <popey> hey HazRPG
[22:59] <HazRPG> popey: hey dude :)
[22:59] <HazRPG> Long time no see
[22:59] <popey> yeah
[22:59] <StevenR> popey: because they don't have a particularly stable IP, probably.
[22:59] <popey> dyndns?
[22:59] <popey> i installed Prey on my mums pc anyway
[22:59] <popey> in case it gets stolen
[23:00] <BigRedS> yeah, I've replaced openvpn and squid with ssh and now things break an awful lot less
[23:00] <popey> and every 10-20 mins it checks in with my webserver, so not hard for me to figure out her IP :D
[23:00] <HazRPG> popey: prey ftw \o/
[23:00] <StevenR> popey: possibly, depending on how functional their router is
[23:02] <popey> why is the router involved?
[23:02] <popey> I installed ddclient which does the dyndns checkin
[23:10] <StevenR> popey: I'm just exploring options at this stage, Dad and I have been discussing a bundle of things that they'd like to do, and what they'd need to do it. It might be that ssh will do, it might be that I need something more.
[23:17] <daftykins> nobody kept going with Gitso then?
[23:18] <daftykins> at some point i'll play with it again, set it up to disable desktop compositing on win7 desktops and so on so it's usable
[23:18] <HazRPG> Ooo, while you guys are still about... anyone want an invite to Google+?
[23:21] <StevenR> I do think the marketing of G+ is very clever
[23:22] <daftykins> where's it being marketed? i've not seen any
[23:22] <StevenR> (limited invites, build it up as something special, so almost everyone wants one to be part of it. Worked with gmail, still works)
[23:22] <daftykins> ah
[23:23] <daftykins> i've an invite from a friend sat in my gmail inbox but i'm kinda hesitant...
[23:23] <StevenR> it doesn't look like marketing, but it is. Very clever marketing.
[23:27] <daftykins> though only really the type that appeals to geeks in a way
[23:27] <BigRedS> no, it appeals to everyone
[23:27] <HazRPG> StevenR: Agreed, also... have you not noticed the +1 on google searches yet? That's part of the Google+ stuff.
[23:27] <BigRedS> everyone wants to be part of something they can't be
[23:28] <StevenR> HazRPG: yes, I did.
[23:28] <StevenR> BigRedS: exactly.
[23:28] <HazRPG> BigRedS: Indeed!
[23:29]  * StevenR will probably eventually care about G+ (more important things to care about just now)
[23:29] <HazRPG> daftykins: You've got nothing to lose btw signing up, you can download all your Google+ data, and remove the account. Privacy settings are top notch too compared to facebook's implementation.
[23:29] <BigRedS> I'm still trying to work out what a circle is for...
[23:29] <HazRPG> Circle = Friends List
[23:30] <HazRPG> Facebook already had that, so does twitter - most just don't use it.
[23:30] <BigRedS> it sort of appeared to be a way of grouping them
[23:30] <BigRedS> into 'circles of friends'
[23:30] <HazRPG> pretty much
[23:30] <BigRedS> but Google already knows who is in which circles because it knows who knows each other
[23:30] <BigRedS> that's the sort of tedium I'd like my computer to do for me
[23:30] <BigRedS> divvying friends up into who knows who
[23:31] <HazRPG> if you want just a group of people to see things, all you have to do is select that circle before posting... and make sure to remove "public" and only that circle will see it.
[23:32] <HazRPG> If you don't mind friends of your friends seeing stuff, then you select "extended circle" (or circle of circle it originally showed up as)
[23:32] <HazRPG> circle of circles*
[23:32] <HazRPG> Its quite nifty, once you start using them
[23:34] <BigRedS> hmmm, I think I need more friends first :)
[23:34] <BigRedS> I've spent so long complaining about facebook, nobody's added me to their google wotsit
[23:37]  * StevenR continues to maintain a fairly minimalist facebook presence (I don't want all the students at my previous workplace to find me)


[14:41] <samip537> Hi, is the current issue with systemd and Gentoo being worked on? Regarding this bug in Gentoo: https://bugs.gentoo.org/610720
[14:41] <samip537> The unfortunate thing that systemd-networkd is not supported.


[12:27] <hargut> Hello.
[12:28] <hargut> Is there any sources.list entry I've to enable in case I want to install ubuntustudio on my regular 1604 install?
[12:28] <hargut> Mainly I'm looking for packages of ardour5 & a lowlatency/preemt/rt kernel.
[12:30] <hargut> I've found: linux-lowlatency so far. Is ardour5 already packaged?
[12:39] <hargut> Ah, anyways I'll compile it from the debian sources. They already have the package in unstable.
[12:40] <hargut> Just remove licenscheck in debian/control and it compiles.
[12:40] <hargut> Thanks & bye.
[19:41] <studio-user661> Hello? I'm new to this and need some help.
[22:14] <studio-user456> come faccio per cambiare password


[02:51] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[09:23] <mandem0110> Morning... :)
[20:20] <oerheks> just read a post; https://snapcraft.io/desktop-security-center  https://linuxsecurity.com/news/desktop-security/ubuntu-desktop-security-center
[20:48] <leftyfb> oerheks: any idea what that actually does?
[20:53] <oerheks> it is a PRO gui,
[20:55] <oerheks> https://imgur.com/a/AuKBNQR
[20:56] <oerheks> leftyfb, ^^
[20:56] <oerheks> + option to disable livepatch in the top bar
[20:56] <oerheks> (icon), nice
[20:57] <leftyfb> so it's just the same thing as the "pro" cli
[20:57] <leftyfb> people and their gui's :/


[00:05] <arand_> crimsun: I'll think I'll go with adding it to rules, since adding it to a diff which was meant to address confiuration only, seems a tad more evil.
[00:29] <ajmitch> \sh: it's a little confusing having both zendframework & zend-framework now, what can be done to sort out this duplication?
[00:54] <G> imbrandon: oh, I got a reply about that licensing issue
[00:56] <ajmitch> a positive reply, I hope?
[00:56] <G> ajmitch: yep, Red Hat Legal provided an additional license for the code to link to OpenSSL
[00:56] <G> well, exception
[00:57] <ajmitch> great
[00:57] <G> now, the question is, it was provided via e-mail
[00:58] <G> he's stated that the source tarball will be updated in due course, do I just take an RFC compliant copy (with headers) and dump it somewhere, or what?
[01:00] <persia> Some folks include the mail in debian/copyright.  others wait until upstream actually releases the new tarball.
[01:01] <persia> The exact set of things that is required depends mostly on the archive-admin who happens to end up reviewing the package, as it's a bit of a fuzzy area.
[01:02] <G> I think the e-mail should keep the archive-admin happy tbh
[01:46] <imbrandon> G: yup i saw the email, thats great news
[01:46] <imbrandon> G: is going afk a few hours, bbiab
[01:47] <G> imbrandon: no problem
[02:47] <ScottK> G: The archive admin decides what makes them happy.
[02:48]  * ScottK finds joy in rejecting packages and reducing what we have to maintain.  Let me know if there's anything in New you want me to review ...
[02:48] <ScottK> ;-)
[02:50]  * ajmitch hears that ScottK may be open to persuasion in some forms of currency
[02:50] <ScottK> ajmitch: Of course.  I'm a businessman.
[02:51] <ScottK> That won't get me to accept something that shouldn't be accepted, but I can be reprioritized.
[03:16] <G> ScottK: it's not in NEW yet, I need a debian sponsor first (iirc imbrandon said he's not get a DD)
[03:17] <G> ScottK: and it won't be in NEW until I can get other packages sorted
[03:19] <G> ScottK: but if you don't mind, I'd love to ask a theory based question :P
[03:24] <ScottK> G: Certainly.
[03:27] <G> ScottK: okay, so one of the packages I'm work on, is licensed under GPLv2, and uses OpenSSL, I e-mailed Red Hat Legal (copyright holders) who have confirmed it should have had the exemption, have provided a suitable exemption status, and a commitment that the next tarball will include it, if I copy the e-mail + Headers to debian/copyright, would that keep you happy?
[03:28] <G> s/status/statement
[03:28] <ScottK> Probably.
[03:28] <ScottK> The key is probably the tense involved.
[03:29] <ScottK> It needs to be clear that it does have the exemption and they just neglected to document it in the code.  If they "will give the exemption" at some future time, then no.
[03:29] <G> ScottK: the statement given is very similar to the wget exemption
[03:29] <ScottK> They need to say it does have the exemption.
[03:30] <G> ScottK: yeah thats what he's done
[03:30] <ScottK> As long as the tenses are correct it's probably fine.
[03:31] <ScottK> (I did look at wget)
[03:32] <G> ScottK: okay, sounds like it'll be good
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:14] <the-dude> if I want a package from debian unstable into debian, would it be better to ask for a sync request or do I need to upload it to revu?
[07:15] <fabrice_sp> the-dude, if the package has not been modified in Ubuntu, it will be automatically synced
[07:16] <the-dude> fabrice_sp: it doesn't need to be modified afaik
[07:16] <fabrice_sp> it's a new package?
[07:16] <the-dude> new to ubuntu, not new to debian
[07:17] <fabrice_sp> ok: it will be atuomatically synced, then
[07:17] <the-dude> any indication when that will happen?
[07:17] <fabrice_sp> it depends on the archive admin, and when they will sync new packages
[07:18] <fabrice_sp> so if it does not happen before DIF, ask again to see what happened
[07:18] <the-dude> do all packages need to be build on the latest ubuntu?
[07:18] <fabrice_sp> yes
[07:18] <the-dude> ok I could try to build it on maverick, just to be sure
[07:19] <fabrice_sp> would be good, yes :-)
[07:19] <fabrice_sp> otherwise, it will FTBFS, someone will need to fix it
[07:19] <the-dude> I can fix that ;)
[07:20] <fabrice_sp> Have to go now. Bye ;-)
[07:20] <the-dude> aight thanks :)
[07:40] <DktrKranz> Laney: I trued to join #debian-ubuntu, but I get kicked out. Is it me, or don't I like you? :)
[07:41] <DktrKranz> lfaraone: mind repasting link? :)
[07:43] <bilalakhtar> lfaraone: Are you there/
[07:43] <bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Are you a DD?
[07:44] <DktrKranz> bilalakhtar: yup
[07:45] <bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Are you free to review a package?
[07:45] <DktrKranz> bilalakhtar: a NEW one?
[07:46] <bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: yeah
[07:46]  * bilalakhtar expects the reply to be 'no'
[07:46] <DktrKranz> now I'm @work with limited resources, but I can have a look at it this evening
[07:46] <bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Ok, for your info, the package is liboauth and can be found on mentors.debian.net
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> I have cleaned the package for lintian errors, warnings, P: tags, etc
[07:47] <DktrKranz> mind dropping me a mail about it, so I remember it?
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> And also ran a test build in chroot
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> ok, what is ur email address
[07:47] <bilalakhtar> ?
[07:48] <DktrKranz> dktrkranz AT debian DOT org
[07:48] <bilalakhtar> DktrKranz: Thanks
[07:48] <DktrKranz> yeah, I hate you spam!
[07:49] <bilalakhtar> I know that
[07:49] <bilalakhtar> something AT SPAMFREE something DOT org
[08:56] <Laney> DktrKranz: on oftc?
[09:05] <DktrKranz> Laney: yup
[09:06] <Laney> weird, works fine for everyone else :(
[09:08] <DktrKranz> I'll try to change a couple of options in my bnc
[09:09] <DktrKranz> I had a similar problem in the past
[09:11] <DktrKranz> yay! \o/
[09:16] <Laney> excellent
[09:16] <Laney> now you can redirect such sponsoring requests there ;)
[09:21] <hyperair> Laney: what's the issue?
[09:21] <Laney> what issue?
[09:21] <hyperair> "works fine for everyone else"?
[09:21] <Laney> joining #debian-ubuntu on oftc
[09:21] <hyperair> ah
[09:21] <hyperair> there's such a channel? =O
[09:22] <mok0> hyperair, yep there's only one bot there :-P
[09:23] <hyperair> mok0: and many more people =)
[09:24] <Laney> we should promote this better
[09:24] <Laney> especially amongst the people who we especially want to get their work into Debian
[09:24]  * hyperair agrees
[09:24]  * Laney eyes ubuntu one
[09:27] <DktrKranz> Laney: btw, I also volunteered to become member of the debian-ubuntu front desk, as proposed by zack
[09:28] <G> #debian-ubuntu eh?
[09:28] <Laney> DktrKranz: Cool! How is it supposed to work? Like an ML which fields queries from both sides?
[09:31] <DktrKranz> still not defined, we'll see that soon
[09:32] <mb4_> morning
[09:32] <mb4_> i have a quick question about python packaging
[09:33] <mb4_> i'd like to use cdbs for it but i keeps installing libs into the site-packages dir which is not on the search path, so my package is broken
[09:33] <mb4_> can someone advise me on how to fix this`
[09:33] <mb4_> ?
[09:35] <tumbleweed> mb4_: the debian-python community is keen to migrate everyone off cdbs, to dh7 - but that doesn't help your problem
[09:35] <mok0> mb4_: you need to use python-central
[09:36] <Laney> try #debian-python @ oftc
[09:36] <mok0>         dh  $@  --with python-central
[09:40] <mok0> mb4_: oh, sorry, you said cdbs, in that case you need to set the DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM variable
[09:42] <mb4_> i just changed the rules from cdbs to dh7 and it works well with python-central
[09:42] <mb4_> thanks guys :)
[09:43] <mok0> mb4_: remember to specify python-central in Build-Depends
[11:49] <toabctl> uupdate: new version 1.0beta3-0ubuntu1 <= current version 1.0+ds1~beta2a-1; aborting!
[11:49] <lfaraone> Can somebody add me as a member of ~ubuntu-sponsors?
[11:49] <toabctl> ^^ why? what does +ds1 mean?
[11:50] <wzssyqa> how to write watch file for google code?
[11:50] <lfaraone> toabctl: + is greater than b, apparently.
[11:50] <lfaraone> wzssyqa: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-apps/packages/autokey/trunk/debian/watch
[11:51] <toabctl> lfaraone, and what does ds mean? is this the shortcut for the dd?
[11:51] <toabctl> lfaraone, i want to package a new version (upstream it is 1.0beta3).
[11:52] <lfaraone> toabctl: I haven't the faintest idea.
[11:52] <Laney> it means debian source
[11:53] <Laney> some kind of repacking but not for dfsg-freeness
[11:56] <wzssyqa> lfaraone: it seems not work
[11:57] <lfaraone> wzssyqa: what package, and what is the contents of your watchfile?
[11:57] <lfaraone> wzssyqa: "it doesn't work" gives me very little information to help you.
[11:57] <wzssyqa> lfaraone: what you give me
[11:58]  * lfaraone has to go, sorry.
[11:58] <lfaraone> wzssyqa: well, you'll obviously have to replace "autokey" with your project name and match the tarball portion to the way upstream does their tarballs.
[12:00] <wzssyqa> lfaraone: no matching hrefs for watch line
[12:00] <wzssyqa>   http://code.google.com/p/autokey/downloads/list http://autokey.googlecode.com/files/autokey_(.+)\.tar\.gz
[12:00] <wzssyqa> lfaraone: i just try autokey
[12:01] <wzssyqa> lfaraone: you can have a try of it
[12:06] <bilalakhtar> what is lucid-proposed?
[12:07] <jpds> bilalakhtar: Where proposed fixes go before going to -updates.
[12:07] <bilalakhtar> jpds: oh
[12:07] <mok0> Where bugs go before they die :-)
[12:08] <G> how do Debian Native packages (i.e. in debian as Version '1') get imported into Ubuntu?
[12:09] <G> want to make sure my PPA version will get overridden when it gets synced
[12:09] <mok0> G: just put a ~ppa1 after
[12:10] <G> so something like 1~ppa1 is always less than 1?
[12:10] <mok0> G: yes
[12:12] <Rhonda> G: ~ means "less than everything, even the empty string"
[12:12] <G> Rhonda: got it thanks
[12:12] <G> mok0: thanks too
[12:15] <mok0> G: you can always test these things with dpkg --compare-versions
[12:15] <G> mok0: oooh, thanks :)
[12:16] <mok0>  dpkg --compare-versions 1 lt 1~pp1 ||echo no
[12:16] <mok0> (test that with i.e. version 1 and 2)
[12:20] <G> mok0: just added that to my new list of helpful tips :)
[12:38] <pixie79> hi, i am looking at creating a custom deb so that i can keep my system files the same on many servers, the only problem is that this causes the package to fail on install as dpkg declares another package owns the file i am trying to overwrite. I see i can use replace in the config file. I want however for example to just replace /etc/ldap/ldap.conf with my version but if the ldap package gets updates then this should be updated even so
[12:38] <pixie79> any ideas?
[12:45] <mok0> pixie79: yeah use puppet
[12:46] <mok0> or cfengine
[12:49] <pixie79> mok0: ok i was looking at trying to do this via deb's
[12:49] <mok0> pixie79: well, as you found out, you can't
[12:50] <mok0> pixie79: you can install the files with another name, and move them with some post-install magic. However, then you are in trouble if the package that owns the file gets updatted
[12:51] <mok0> pixie79: puppet or cfengine is the way to go, once you get the hang, it is very easy to maintain
[12:58] <pixie79> ok thanks
[13:01] <G> pixie79: I'll second puppet
[13:23] <MunkyJunky> Hey all - anyone know any guides or useful links on how to package a file when you don't have the original source?
[13:24] <mb4_> hi
[13:25] <mb4_> i've got another packaging question: if my package creates a new user, when should it be deleted? during remove or during purge?
[13:30] <effie_jayx> hey all been looking fro a way to contribute these days... I checked packages with dependecy problems, but I guess that is not cool to check yeat since most dependencies are not all built yet
[13:30] <effie_jayx> what would you guys recomend I do, should I focus on other things? syncs and merges or what?
[13:30] <ScottK> mb4_: probably never.  If you remove the user you end up risking leaving unowned files on the system.
[13:31] <Rhonda> mb4_: It's usually done during purge though because that's where the complete cleanup is supposed to happen.
[13:31] <ScottK> Rhonda: I've seen quite a few puiparts failures due to this.
[13:32] <ScottK> The trick is you have to ensure you won't leave unowned files on the system if you remove the user.
[13:32] <Rhonda> ScottK: Then it's done wrongly - but that's no reason to not do it. :)
[13:32] <ScottK> If you can do that, then purge is the time to do it.  Clearly not on remove.
[13:32] <Rhonda> if getent passwd gdm >/dev/null; then if [ -x /usr/sbin/deluser ]; then deluser --system gdm; fi; fi
[13:32] <Rhonda> That's from gdm.postinst, in purge mode
[13:34] <ScottK> IIRC policy is not explicit about this, so it's left to the maintainer to do the right thing.
[13:39] <effie_jayx> Anyone can orient me a bit? where could I help at this stage?
[13:39] <effie_jayx> I tried reviews but the patches there intimidate me a bit
[13:39] <mb4_> okay, i'll purge him then
[13:39] <mb4_> thanks for clarifying that :)
[13:45] <ScottK> effie_jayx: One thing that would be useful is looking on the Universe merges page on merges.ubuntu.com for packages that are waiting for someone who's no longer active in the project to merge them and doing it.
[13:46] <Rhonda> effie_jayx: One sweet thing could also be going through the http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/mdt/all.html list with respect to what's not (anymore) in Debian and check wether those actually make sense to keep around for ubuntu.
[13:47] <Rhonda> As a first thing I guess those packages that have a "ubuntu" in their version string were actually synced from Debian at some point and could make proper removal candidates.
[13:47] <Rhonda> s/synced/patched/
[13:47] <Laney> that have -mubuntun where m > 0
[13:48] <Rhonda> Laney: -0ubuntu not?
[13:48] <Laney> not necessarily
[13:48] <Laney> could have never been in debian
[13:48] <Rhonda> … or were new upstream versiones put into ubuntu before debian had them.
[13:48] <Rhonda> Isn't -0ubuntu chosen in those chases?
[13:49] <Laney> right, but the point is that you can't tell just from the version number
[13:50] <Rhonda> Right, I didn't say blindly go and file removals. ;)  Taking a look at the changelog is definitely required to get a better picture.
[13:51] <Laney> Yeah it is, but I think that a good first target are those package versions which have definitely been in Debian
[13:51] <Rhonda> Currently I'm at 50% with -0ubuntu changes about have been in debian.
[13:51]  * Rhonda . o O ( … out of two  *hides* )
[13:52] <highvoltage> lol Rhonda :)
[13:53] <effie_jayx> thanks guys, I am headed to the syncs page
[13:53] <Rhonda> And another that was in Debian, aften. Or was/is that in debian-multimedia only? I am always careful when reading the name marillat …
[13:54] <effie_jayx> sorry I am bit rusty
[13:55] <effie_jayx> but I remember stuff I think
[13:56] <G> btw, how long would it typically take for something like dh-autoreconf to sync from Debian, I've started using that for my packaging
[14:10] <effie_jayx> Found some cool things on syncs and merges on the wiki, just thought I would post it here for referneces in logs...
[14:10] <effie_jayx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[14:11] <effie_jayx> and an Irc log from a training session,https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cheater7/Lectures/Merges_080613
[14:11] <effie_jayx> thanks for the heads up guys
[14:39] <ScottK> dholbach: You can mark my work item about reviewing the merge documentation for sending stuff back to Debian as done.
[14:42] <effie_jayx> guys soime help here... I think I found a merge that can be a sync and I am not sure yet.
[14:42] <effie_jayx> https://merges.ubuntu.com/o/ontv/REPORT
[14:43] <effie_jayx> the changes were related to python 2.5 as a dependency for building and otehrs
[14:43] <effie_jayx> debian has removed those, I have checked the dependencies, so no need for a merge I think
[14:50] <dholbach> ScottK: you can mark it as done too
[14:50] <dholbach> ScottK: which one is it?
[14:50] <dholbach> ah hang on
[14:50] <dholbach> done
[14:50] <dholbach> thanks
[14:51] <ScottK> dholbach: I could have done it myself if I remembered the spec name.  Thanks.
[14:51] <effie_jayx> if I see no conflicts in the REPORT file and I double check the changes in ubuntu is this fit for a sync?
[14:52] <ScottK> If there are no changes left outside the changelog then it should be so.
[14:52] <dholbach> ScottK: same here, it took my ubuflu-ed mind a bit longer to realise what you were on about
[14:52] <ScottK> Ah, so my theory was correct.  I postulated at UDS that ubuflu would happen, but it had a longer incubation period this time and people would get sick after they were home.
[14:52] <tumbleweed> effie_jayx: I agree, looks syncable
[14:53] <effie_jayx> tumbleweed: I am unsure on hwat to do next
[14:53] <dholbach> ScottK: yep, sconklin, czajkowski, jono, and lots of others told me they had the same thing
[14:53] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Test build the unmodified package and if it builds, file a sync bug using requestsync.
[14:53] <effie_jayx> I just report a bug requesting sync, attach build log and changelogs for debian and ubutn version?
[14:54] <ScottK> effie_jayx: requestsync will put the needed things in the bug.
[14:54] <tumbleweed> effie_jayx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
[14:54] <effie_jayx> ScottK: good
[14:54] <effie_jayx> wow this is much more streamlined now
[14:54] <effie_jayx> thanks you guys rock
[14:56] <effie_jayx> one other thing.. in the changelog what should I add
[14:56] <effie_jayx> before building the package
[14:56] <tumbleweed> effie_jayx: it doesn't matter, it's just a local test
[14:56] <tumbleweed> you don't need to add anything
[14:57] <effie_jayx> tumbleweed: not my developer info either?
[14:57] <effie_jayx> ok
[14:58] <jetienne> q. suppose i got a .deb and would like to include it in normal ubuntu repository, what is the best way to do that ?
[15:06] <ScottK> jetienne: First, you need source to get in, not a deb (those get built from the source).  The best way is to get it into Debian.
[15:06] <jetienne> ScottK: ok, i got the source too
[15:07] <ScottK> !REVU | jetienne
[15:07] <ScottK> That's the place to go for getting it into Ubuntu directly, but you may have more luck on mentors.debian.net.
[15:08] <jetienne> ScottK: hmm why going thru debian is "better" than using ubuntu directly ? i mean the goal is to reach ubuntu repo, not debian oner
[15:08] <jetienne> ScottK: i will read revu, just curious
[15:09] <ScottK> jetienne: There are a LOT more people trying to get stuff into Ubuntu than MOTU can process.
[15:09] <jetienne> ScottK: hmm ok
[15:09] <ScottK> There are ~1000 Debian developers and ~150 Ubuntu ones.
[15:09] <Rhonda> jetienne: The goal is to be cooperative and help free software in general, not beeing greedy and ubuntu only. :)
[15:09] <jetienne> ScottK: what about ppa ?
[15:09] <ScottK> jetienne: Not part of Ubuntu.
[15:10] <ScottK> As Rhonda says too.
[15:10] <jetienne> im not greedy, just looking at the number
[15:11] <jetienne> currently just trying to sign coc is not easy :)
[15:12] <Rhonda> And about mentors.debian.net, just dropping packages there is a way to have them rot - there is the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and #debian-mentors on OFTC which are more fruitful - in addition to putting the package somewhere web accessible (that though can indeed be mentors.debian.net :))
[15:12] <effie_jayx> ScottK: I see very little kde apps for merge, is it because Kubuntu devs are pretty good at keeping those at bay?
[15:13] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Yes.  Also for a variety of reasons we've been generally ahead of Debian on KDE stuff.
[15:15] <effie_jayx> ScottK: so Kubutnu serves as a sandbox for debian in many ways?
[15:15] <ScottK> Some.
[15:15] <effie_jayx> ScottK: you guys rock, I have been trying to get stuff to contribute to in kubunt usince it is what I use these days, but things are clean
[15:15] <ScottK> The Debian KDE team and the Kubuntu team have different sets of skills, so we benifit from each other.
[15:16] <Rhonda> effie_jayx: You should rather ask the Debian KDE team about that - not sure wether they actually do sync/coordinate/communicate with the kubuntu team.
[15:16] <ScottK> effie_jayx: You should join in #kubuntu-devel and ask what needs doing there.
[15:16] <ScottK> Rhonda: We do.
[15:16] <Rhonda> Oh, alright. :)
[15:16] <effie_jayx> ScottK: I have, but not on a daily basis. It is a little dawnting to ask at times
[15:16] <ScottK> As with everythin, the coordination could be better, but it's not bad.
[15:16] <ScottK> effie_jayx: We're very friendly.
[15:16] <Rhonda> And just because it came up on identi.ca today - is there any plans/way/effort to seperate kde from mysql again?
[15:17] <ScottK> Not in the near term.
[15:17] <ScottK> There are prototypes of alternate akonadi backends, but nothing near production ready.
[15:17] <ScottK> (I mean even as much as akonadi is)
[15:17] <effie_jayx> ScottK:  there shyness gone
[15:17] <effie_jayx> :)
[15:18] <ScottK> Great.
[15:22] <effie_jayx> well the build failed, aparently a library is missing in the repository
[15:22] <effie_jayx> I am updating pbuilder and see
[15:23] <ScottK> Rhonda: I did go count and currently 8 of the 51 people in #debian-qt-kde are Kubuntu people.  That's a decent sign there is cooperation.
[15:23] <effie_jayx> is it advisable to use http://mirrors.kernel.org/ as sources for pbuilder?
[15:23] <ScottK> No.
[15:23] <ScottK> archive.ubuntu.com
[15:23] <effie_jayx> great
[15:26] <jetienne> hmmm grumble, i can not use my epm builder to upload to ppa :(
[15:27] <effie_jayx> jetienne: all you need is a changes file
[15:31] <jetienne> effie_jayx: well im reading the doc... missing a lot of thing now
[15:35] <jetienne> hmm  is there any estimation of the delay between the submission and the actual acceptance ?
[15:37] <jetienne> ok i guess this is easier to go thru ppa at first
[15:37] <effie_jayx> jetienne: acceptance is like 10 minutes
[15:37] <effie_jayx> jetienne: building could take hours
[15:37] <effie_jayx> depending the load on the build deamons in laucnhpad
[15:38] <jetienne> effie_jayx: i suspect the human part is the longuest :)
[15:45] <tumbleweed> jetienne, effie_jayx: acceptance happens every 5 minutes
[15:45] <tumbleweed> launchpad.net/builders gives you an idea of the business
[15:45] <tumbleweed> busyness I should say
[15:48] <jetienne> ok first ppa and then trying to get in :)
[15:48] <jetienne> side question: my code is rather large (350kline) and i would like to port it to 64bit. which process would you follow ?
[15:55] <jetienne> not the proper channel i guess :)
[16:21] <effie_jayx> I think I am having problems with my pbuilder, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/436809/
[16:21] <ScottK> Wahoo!
[16:21] <effie_jayx> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
[16:21]  * ScottK is no longer TIL courier.
[16:22] <effie_jayx> it depends on cdbs and it does not find them
[16:22] <effie_jayx> cdbs and many other packaging packages
[16:22] <ScottK> That's normal.
[16:22] <ScottK> What's the rest of the log?
[16:22] <effie_jayx> but it does not build
[16:22] <effie_jayx> let me paste the whole thing
[16:23] <effie_jayx> ScottK: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/436811/
[16:23] <ScottK> Looking
[16:23] <effie_jayx> ScottK: what is TIL courier, if I may ask?
[16:23] <ScottK> Touched it last.
[16:24] <ScottK> If you were the last person to upload a package you have some moral responsiblity to mind after it a bit and merge it.
[16:24] <ScottK> Courier is annoying.
[16:25] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Line 71 is an aptitude segfault.  That's the actual problem.
[16:26] <effie_jayx> ScottK: I see, what causes it?
[16:26] <effie_jayx> or is it something I should find out...
[16:30] <ScottK> No idea.
[16:34] <ScottK> If you look in the pbuilder config file in /etc you'll see there are provisions for alternate dependency resolvers. I'd switch to a different one and try again.
[16:34] <ScottK> If you can reproduce the aptitude problem reliably then it's worth filing an aptitude bug.
[16:40] <effie_jayx> ScottK: ok
[16:42] <effie_jayx> ScottK: you mean /etc/pbuilder/buildd-config.sh or pbuilderrc
[16:43] <ScottK> effie_jayx: pbuilderrc.  You need to look in /usr/share/pbuilder/pbuilderrc so see what you are going to override.
[16:44] <ScottK> In this case it's PBUILDERSATISFYDEPENDSCMD that needs changing.
[16:45] <effie_jayx> ScottK:  I am reading the pbuilder howto... one reference to gdebi, but since I use kde.
[16:46] <effie_jayx> ScottK:  let me check the doc in the usr/share
[16:47] <effie_jayx> ScottK: and update on the pbuilder and now it works
[16:47] <effie_jayx> ScottK: but good info
[16:48] <effie_jayx> ScottK: you are a hero
[16:48] <effie_jayx> :)
[16:48] <effie_jayx> it's been a while since my last sync... and this is getting simpler and simpler
[16:57] <effie_jayx> well now it seems the patches won't apply
[16:57] <effie_jayx> :S
[16:57] <effie_jayx> heh
[17:08] <effie_jayx> the package I am trying to test for a sync  is now FTBFS. what Should I do?
[17:09]  * effie_jayx checks docs
[17:10] <ScottK> Fix it.
[17:25] <MunkyJunky> Hey all - is it possible to package a .sh file and a .run file into a .deb, and have the .sh file run when the user installs the .deb package?
[17:27] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: possible yes. good no.
[17:28] <MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: Is there a recommended way of doing it differently?
[17:29] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: which software is this?
[17:29] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: get the source of the software, make the debian/* stuff, build the binary and source pkg with debuild
[17:30] <MunkyJunky> Teamspeak 3 client (the .run file) and a script that adds menu items and puts the right files in the right places.
[17:30] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: ah so you don't have source files that need to be compiled
[17:30] <MunkyJunky> Sadly, Teamspeak 3 isn't open source, so I don't have that option
[17:30] <MunkyJunky> Yup
[17:30] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: there's no much point packaging binary only software as debian packages
[17:31] <MunkyJunky> It's more for convinience, as the Teamspeak client installer doesn't create any menu items, and is just a runable script. The idea is that this will install it and make some nicer desktop intergration
[17:31] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: just create your own one-installer-shell-script file that people get
[17:31] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: and make it download, install, configure it?
[17:32] <tarzeau_> that's what i did for the nvidia binary driver as a init.d script before dkms came up
[17:32] <tarzeau_> and now i'm picking it back up, since the ubuntu installers failed on at least 3 ubuntu installations at work
[17:32] <MunkyJunky> You mean make my script download the teamspeak 3 client, install & config it?
[17:32] <tarzeau_> mine worked reliably for 5 years, for like 150 machines, of about 30 different nvidia cards
[17:33] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: yes
[17:33] <MunkyJunky> That wouldn't make any difference - the download for the teamspeak client comes as a .run file.
[17:33] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: the installer is not interactive?
[17:34] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: it made sense for the nvidia-installer.run file for me
[17:34] <tarzeau_> especially it needed to rebuild the kernel module everytime a new kernel came
[17:34] <MunkyJunky> It's a run file that you run, which after agreeing to their licence, extracts the files to a folder, which is run by calling an .sh file.
[17:35] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: it's all in a dir, like /opt/teamspeak?
[17:35] <MunkyJunky> It extracts to a folder in the same directory the run file is in.
[17:36] <MunkyJunky> Part of my script makes it extract into /usr/local/bin
[17:36] <tarzeau_> what's your point? you have to just install it once?
[17:36] <MunkyJunky> yea
[17:36] <eagles0513875> imbrandon: ping
[17:37] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: you're wasting your time
[17:37] <MunkyJunky> How so?
[17:37] <tarzeau_> you're not saving time, by packaging this thing as a debian package
[17:39] <MunkyJunky> I'm not trying to do it to save time - I'm doing it so instead of having to install the .run file, then manually create menu items (which a fair few of the teamspeak users don't understand how to do) a user can instead install the .deb package, which installs the .run file and makes the menu items for it.
[17:40] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: and your teamspeak thing is i386 only?
[17:40] <tarzeau_> or also 64bit x86?
[17:40] <MunkyJunky> i386 and x64
[17:40] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: you'll have to make one all package or one i386 and one amd64 one
[17:40] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: what do you want to do?
[17:40] <MunkyJunky> I was going to make one for 32bit, one for 64 bit
[17:41] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: create a teamspeak-version directory, put all files in there, run dh_make in it
[17:41] <tarzeau_> make sure  you do a tar czf teamspeak_version.orig.tar.gz before you add the debian/ dir with dh_make
[17:41] <tarzeau_> i see
[17:42] <tarzeau_> put your desktop file and icon also into debian/
[17:42] <tarzeau_> add the 32bit and 64bit installation into this teamspeak_version.orig.tar.gz first
[17:43] <MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: Right, cheers
[17:43] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: you know how to do the debian/ part?
[17:44] <MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: I'm learning from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling
[17:44] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: ok, if you get stuck feel free to ask again, and put your stuff on some webserver so people can look at it
[17:45] <MunkyJunky> tarzeau_: Thanks for your help!
[17:45] <tarzeau_> MunkyJunky: yw
[17:46] <tarzeau_> anyone in here with some freetime to look at revu packages?
[17:46] <tarzeau_> iulian: when will you take over modglue?
[17:47] <eagles0513875> imbrandon: can you pm me or ping me when you get back need to talk to you re mysql work bench
[17:52] <tarzeau_> i wish there was a way to simply transfer ppa packages to the revu repo without uploading them again
[17:52] <tarzeau_> and some stats on the downloading of ppa files
[17:58] <geser> tarzeau_: there is a bug about PPA stats, and IIRC one should be able to get this data through the LP API soon (in one of the next LP rollouts)
[18:04] <tarzeau_> geser: i've seen that bug report, but nothing happened since then...
[18:04] <tarzeau_> geser: i guess i'll put up per package stats about popcon.ubuntu.com meanwhile
[18:23] <iulian> tarzeau_: I am currently pretty busy studying for exams now.  I will probably do an upload next week.
[18:51] <ari-tczew> Laney: around?
[19:21] <tarzeau_> yay http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/
[19:27] <Rhonda> tarzeau_: Can you get co-maintained packages into the output, too?
[19:28] <tarzeau_> Rhonda: i'm only using the by_maint file as source, i'd have to parse some other file listing co maintainers of the packages somehow
[19:28] <tarzeau_> Rhonda: you got the source, url/do and url/index.txt
[19:28] <tarzeau_> have fun :)
[19:28] <tarzeau_> i thought about linking to the package pages on launchpad, but i'm not sure i know the source package links ubuntu/+source/pkg or so
[19:28] <Rhonda> Where have I got the source?
[19:28] <tarzeau_> but the package names are all of the binary package names
[19:29] <tarzeau_> yay http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/index.txt
[19:29] <tarzeau_> yay http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/do to get the files
[19:30] <Rhonda> Hmm. Can't find wesnoth there?
[19:30] <tarzeau_> who is the maintainer of it? some team?
[19:30] <tarzeau_> 97165 wesnoth-compiled                   2     0     2     0     0 (Unknown)
[19:32] <tarzeau_> 125000 packages list the package as "Unknown" - no idea why
[19:34] <Rhonda> The games team.
[19:35] <Rhonda> But it's not on http://gnu.ethz.ch/ubuntu-popcon/index.cgi?Debian%20Games%20Team
[19:35] <tarzeau_> yes try index.cgi?Unknown
[19:35] <tarzeau_> for some reason the popcon.ubuntu.com lists wesnoth and 125000 other packages as maintainer "Unknown"
[19:35] <tarzeau_> i have no idea who generates the file, and why they do it with "Unknown"
[19:36] <Rhonda> Ah, maybe because it has ubuntu diff in lucid?
[19:36] <tarzeau_> but even then a package has a maintainer no?
[19:36] <tarzeau_> there's never a reason to put "Unknown" there
[19:36] <tarzeau_> every packages maintainer is known
[19:36] <Rhonda> Don't ask me, ask ubuntu popcon :)
[19:37] <ari-tczew> Rhonda: do you maintain packages.ubuntu.com ?
[19:37] <tarzeau_> ari-tczew: the url says frank lichtenheld
[19:37] <Rhonda> ari-tczew: I can commit to the codebase, I can't deploy it to packages.ubuntu.com. A single person can and that person is external to canonical and awkwardly busy for well over half a year now.
[19:38] <tarzeau_> mdomsch: you package stuff for fedora?
[19:38] <Rhonda> ari-tczew: If you refer to changes for maverick, I did that part - though can't deploy it, sorry. I did the best I can do in here: http://git.debian.org/?p=webwml/packages.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-master
[19:38] <ari-tczew> Rhonda: thanks
[19:39] <Rhonda> The rest is some potential internal struggle in canonical it looks to me about not accepting others into the possibility to deploy changes.
[19:40] <mdomsch> tarzeau_, I have several packages i maintain in fedora, yes
[19:41] <mdomsch> including dkms
[19:41]  * ScottK waves to mdomsch.
[19:41] <mdomsch> hey ScottK
[19:41] <tarzeau_> mdomsch: i've seen a bug report about the m+ fonts (ttf-mplus in ubuntu/debian). could you do something about it so it's there for fedora project people?
[19:41] <tarzeau_> mdomsch: the report says something about the package should build the fontforge fonts, is that really needed?
[19:42] <mdomsch> tarzeau_, I've helped get one set of fonts into fedora, but they're not my specialty
[19:42] <tarzeau_> mdomsch: cool, i was so glad about dkms in karmic, however it failed with ubuntu lucid with the latest kernel for severial different nvidia modules/cards
[19:42] <mdomsch> there's a separate packaging guideline for those
[19:43] <mdomsch> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:FontsPolicy
[19:43] <ScottK> tarzeau_: If you're having dkms issues in Ubuntu, superm1 is probably a better person to talk to.
[19:44] <mdomsch> tarzeau_, if the kernel changes, and the nvidia shim doesn't, there's not much dkms can do about it itself; the nvidia kmod package would need to be fixed
[19:44] <mdomsch> and yes, superm1 is the man
[19:45] <tarzeau_> i see
[19:57] <ari-tczew> what's the command to bzr push with link to bug report?
[20:00] <geser> bzr commit --fixes lp:123456
[20:00] <geser> and then push as usual
[20:06] <ari-tczew> thanks
[20:36] <arand> For a SRU where update-maintainer is done, what, if any, is the appropriate changelog entry? "* debian/control: updated maintainer field"?
[20:37] <ScottK> No, we don't put the maintainer change in debian/control
[20:37] <ScottK> control/changelog
[20:39] <arand> ScottK: Ok, cheers.
[21:03] <effie_jayx> easy, the patch is not needed
[22:25] <arand> Is it only ubuntu-sru that may confirm nominations? Otherwise would someone mind to open hardy-lucid in Bug #581331
[22:25] <arand> And put a priority medium-high, if you feel like it.
[22:36] <toabctl> i have a package (libsynthesis) which has as version <IP_ADDRESS>+ds1 . what stands the +ds1 for?
[22:38] <tumbleweed> ds = debian source
[22:38] <tumbleweed> there was something wrong with the upstream tarball (or there wasn't one)
[23:37] <bobbo> evening MOTU's!
[23:39] <wyatt> hi guys


[00:06] <shadowchaser> hello all once again I come to the forum for help with unbuntu can any one help?
[01:10] <reya276> How can I fix my update manager so that it stops telling me that my repositories are out of sync?
[01:30] <maxolasersquad_h> sudo aptitude update ?
[01:31] <maxolasersquad_h> reya276: ^^
[01:31] <reya276> no it keeps failing
[01:31] <maxolasersquad_h> If that doesn't do it, post the exact error message.
[01:31] <reya276> let me pastebin  the output one sec
[01:31] <maxolasersquad_h> k
[01:32] <reya276> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/550455/
[01:34] <maxolasersquad_h> Try to browse to http://extras.ubuntu.com/
[01:36] <maxolasersquad_h> Also, see if you can get to http://ppa.launchpad.net/
[01:37] <maxolasersquad_h> My guess is that you either have a DNS or routing issue with your ISP.
[01:37] <maxolasersquad_h> Could be a firewall or host issue as well.
[01:38] <reya276> I can get to the first URL and the second one too
[01:39] <reya276> they both work from the browser
[01:39] <maxolasersquad_h> Can you view http://ppa.launchpad.net/am-monkeyd/nautilus-elementary-ppa/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release.gpg
[01:42] <reya276> yes
[01:42] <maxolasersquad_h> Open up Synaptic and then click on Settings->Preferences.
[01:42] <maxolasersquad_h> Make sure, in the Network tab, you have "Direction connection to the internet" clicked.
[01:43] <maxolasersquad_h> s/Direction/Direct
[01:43] <reya276> yes that is setup that way
[01:44] <maxolasersquad_h> Something weird is happening.  Apt is reporting that it cannot resolve ppa.ubuntu.com and cannot resolve extras.ubuntu.com
[01:44] <reya276> right
[01:44] <maxolasersquad_h> But Ubuntu can clearly resolve them, as you have demonstrated.
[01:45] <reya276> How about where it says "Reloading outdated package information"? in the general tab. right now is set to Always Ask
[01:46] <maxolasersquad_h> That's how mine is set as well.
[01:48] <reya276> see now I got this error
[01:48] <reya276> W: Failed to fetch http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release.gpg  Something wicked happened resolving 'archive.canonical.com:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
[01:49] <maxolasersquad_h> Are you getting the errors with ppa.ubuntu.com and extras.ubuntu.com this time?
[01:49] <reya276> is like they are different errors, if its not the extras then is the archive
[01:50] <reya276> no this time is the archive.canonical.com
[01:50] <maxolasersquad_h> It could just be that those servers are having issues then.
[01:50] <maxolasersquad_h> It may not be anything to be concerned about on your end.
[01:51] <reya276> no now I got a different error of a PPA I just added and I know that it is working correctly
[01:51] <reya276> Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/backports/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release.gpg  Something wicked happened resolving 'ppa.launchpad.net:http' (-5 - No address associated with hostname)
[01:52] <reya276> is like somehow they change all the time, so something has got to be wrong
[01:53] <reya276> and is not my ISP because I can access all sites everywhere
[01:53] <maxolasersquad_h> I believe it is a problem with the servers hosting ppa.ubuntu.com
[01:53] <reya276> let me check my wireless router firewall
[01:54] <maxolasersquad_h> They are only responding sporadically to your requests.
[01:55] <maxolasersquad_h> I'm not sure how they are setup, but if it's colocationed, the ones you are hitting could be getting taxed right now, and you are only able to get in sporadically.
[01:59] <maxolasersquad_h> Try again tomorrow and see if you still have the problem.
[02:00] <maxolasersquad_h> You could also try using another DNS provider, such as OpenDNS or Google's DNS.
[02:00] <reya276> how can I get my DSN address
[02:00] <reya276> the one from my ISP?
[02:00] <maxolasersquad_h> You are using a router, right?
[02:01] <reya276> yes
[02:01] <maxolasersquad_h> You should be able to set your DNS in your router settings.
[02:01] <maxolasersquad_h> Google has <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:01] <reya276> well right now is in dynamic
[02:02] <maxolasersquad_h> There should be a way to manually specify your DNS servers.
[02:03] <reya276> there is but I don't know what those are
[02:03] <maxolasersquad_h> What is your make/model of your router?
[02:04] <reya276> I let the ISP provide them automatically through my Wireless router
[02:04] <reya276> Belkin N router
[02:04] <reya276> I tried doing ifconfig but got nothing back
[02:05] <reya276> I should be able to get a DNS from an IP address right
[02:05] <maxolasersquad_h> In your web browser, go to <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:09] <reya276> oh I know how to get to the router admin as I'm in there right now
[02:09] <reya276> I got my ip address which is <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:10] <reya276> but I can't get the DNS for it
[02:11] <maxolasersquad_h> There's not place to manually configure your DNS?
[02:12] <maxolasersquad_h> On my Zyxel it is in the LAN section.
[02:13] <reya276> yes there is
[02:13] <reya276> but I don't know what the DNS is, I only know what the IP address is
[02:13] <maxolasersquad_h> Ok, put them there.
[02:14] <maxolasersquad_h> The DNS should be <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:14] <reya276> but I don't know the DNS
[02:14] <maxolasersquad_h> There's usually a place to put a primary and a secondary DNS server.
[02:14] <reya276> I'm trying to figure out what they are from my IP address
[02:14] <maxolasersquad_h> Can you post a screenshot of the configuration screen.
[02:21] <Chloric> evening guys
[02:21] <Chloric> its been like a monath
[02:23] <Chloric> hey itnet and roaxsoax
[02:23] <reya276> ah ok I got what you were saying, I used the <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> and it works
[02:23] <reya276> so now let me try and update
[02:24] <reya276> yeap no errors at all
[02:24] <maxolasersquad_h> Saweet!
[02:24] <maxolasersquad_h> ISP DNS FTL!
[02:25] <reya276> cool, thanks
[02:26] <reya276> oh one thing, I was able to add the repository for the krita 2.3 but it says it will install Mysql-server-core-5.1 for a graphics program?
[02:34] <reya276> will this slowdown my PC?
[02:38] <reya276> ok this is weird I install Krita 2.3 but I don't see an entry in the Applications Menu
[03:00] <reya276> hey what do I need to install so that I can get the look of KDE Default theme cause Krita looks horrible
[03:00] <reya276> oh and that DNS fix made my internet access faster wow
[04:05] <maxolasersquad_h> reya276: I'm glad to hear that Google's DNS is giving you faster browsing.
[04:05] <maxolasersquad_h> ISPs have a pretty strong reputation of providing horrible DNS servers.
[04:05] <reya276> yeap
[04:06] <reya276> hey how can I get the Krita to look the same as in KDE but in Gnome
[04:07] <reya276> Krita looks horrible for some reason
[04:07] <reya276> like I'm missing the QT4 widgets or something
[04:12] <maxolasersquad_h> I don't know.
[04:13] <reya276> for some reason it feels like is missing something like the theme looks all weird, maybe I'm missing a pacakge(s) or something
[04:13] <maxolasersquad_h> The only KDE app I run is KolourPaint, and it looks fine in Gnome.
[04:14] <reya276> like it does not look like this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D1EpnOVJuA8/TJ8sbzChNtI/AAAAAAAADMo/dmJ9bO6q6LE/s1600/krita02.png
[04:15] <maxolasersquad_h> KolourPaint is giving me the Gnome decorations.
[04:15] <maxolasersquad_h> The minimize/maximize, etc. buttons are on the top-left.  Everything else looks like a regular KDE app.
[04:17] <reya276> right at work it looks like that too but not here
[04:40] <maxolasersquad_h> gidimanunaki: What does the gidi part mean in your handle?
[04:40] <gidimanunaki> Well, the gidim part loosely translates to "ghost" or "spirit".
[04:41] <maxolasersquad_h> Gotcha.  Cool.
[04:41] <gidimanunaki> The rest is easily guessed, but does not translate to "lost native tribe".
[04:41] <maxolasersquad_h> I'm familiar with the Anunaki deal.
[04:42] <gidimanunaki> Pretty rare. Not many people take an interest in old Sumerian.
[04:42] <reya276> see it looks weird http://img205.imageshack.us/i/ubuntukrita23.png/
[04:43] <maxolasersquad_h> It ties in with a lot of mythology, Judaism, muslim, conspiracy theories, greys, etc.
[04:48] <maxolasersquad_h> I find such things fun and interesting, and read up on those subjects from time to time.
[04:50] <gidimanunaki> I can out-geek you there. I've been reading up on this for a few days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth_-yllion#Myriad_system
[04:52] <maxolasersquad_h> Isn't one of those powers supposed to be a googleplex?
[04:53] <gidimanunaki> Eventually. But I was sticking to the -yllions.
[04:54] <maxolasersquad_h> Or whatever number Google is named after.
[04:54] <gidimanunaki> 10^100.
[04:54] <gidimanunaki> Googolplex is 10^(10^100)
[04:55] <maxolasersquad_h> Yeah.
[04:56] <maxolasersquad_h> My two claims to nerddem is being able to recite pi to 20 decimal places, powers of two up to 2^12 off memory.
[04:57] <gidimanunaki> Just 2^12?
[04:57] <maxolasersquad_h> Though, being able to count by powers of two has actual practical application.
[04:57] <gidimanunaki> I only ever memorized Pi to 10 places.
[04:57] <gidimanunaki> I used to count by powers of 2 or 10 or random others when I was a kid. It was my form of fun.
[04:58] <maxolasersquad_h> After 4096 I have to start actually calculating the numbers.  2^12 will get you where you need to 95% of the time.
[04:59] <gidimanunaki> 8192, 16384,32768,65536,131072,262144,524288,1048576,2097152... I forget. I used to know further much faster.
[05:00] <maxolasersquad_h> I'm always surprised at how few programmers immediately know the significance of 32767.
[05:00] <gidimanunaki> 4194304,8388608,16777216,33554432... okay, that's it.
[05:00] <gidimanunaki> lol
[05:00] <gidimanunaki> It's the end of 32-bit?
[05:03] <maxolasersquad_h> It is hex FF in decimal
[05:03] <maxolasersquad_h> Er, FFFF
[05:03] <gidimanunaki> Yep.
[05:04] <maxolasersquad_h> Which is why, in so many languages, it is the limit of what a variable can hold.
[05:10] <gidimanunaki> It's hard to reconcile binary with a myriad system though.
[05:12] <maxolasersquad_h> I once read a book, like fifteen or more years ago (I'm 30) on how computers do complex math in binary.  It was pretty interesting, but way beyond anything I cared to commit to memory.
[05:12] <maxolasersquad_h> It was pretty interesting though.  Doing powers and stuff is pretty easy if you know the tricks.
[05:12] <gidimanunaki> Yeah, I've done math in binary.
[05:13] <gidimanunaki> But that myriad system, what struck me as fascinating, was that each order of magnitude up is the square of the one below it.
[05:15] <maxolasersquad_h> What is the pattern?  I see that there are powers of 1-8, then after that there is pattern, but I cannot nail down exactly what it is.
[05:16] <gidimanunaki> I spend the last few days doing the powers, from 10^1 to 10^256.
[05:16] <gidimanunaki> The pattern gets easier as you practice.
[05:17] <gidimanunaki> http://westwood.fortunecity.com/hermes/490/yllion.txt
[05:17] <gidimanunaki> Make that 10^512.
[05:19] <gidimanunaki> You just follow the pattern up. Myllion, ten myllion, hundred myllion, ten hundred myllion, myriad myllion... etc.
[05:19] <gidimanunaki> Then a myllion myllion is a byllion.
[05:21] <maxolasersquad_h> So it's a naming convention for counting really large numbers?
[05:21] <gidimanunaki> Yep. The best part being that each next one up is the square of the previous. So you can logically count much higher numbers with less words.
[05:21] <gidimanunaki> Well. Less new words.
[05:22] <maxolasersquad_h> I see
[05:22] <gidimanunaki> Since a standard Billion is 10^9, but that Byllion is 10^16.
[05:23] <maxolasersquad_h> Well, here's my latest obsession: http://www.openstreetmap.org/
[05:24] <maxolasersquad_h> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.405862&lon=-84.219353&zoom=19
[05:24] <gidimanunaki> Interesting.
[05:25] <maxolasersquad_h> I've been working on http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.39777&lon=-84.2194&zoom=15&layers=M for a few months now.
[05:26] <gidimanunaki> Wow. That's nice.
[05:28] <maxolasersquad_h> Thanks
[14:21] <reya276> Morning Everyone
[14:33] <reya276> ok guys who wants to take on a Hard Drive issue this Morning?
[14:34] <reya276> KDE 4.5.1 is Amazing, true beauty on a screen
[14:35] <reya276> I installed that bad boy last night at home along with Krita and is short of just awesome
[15:04] <reya276> so no one wants to take on the challenge of getting this external HD working with Ubuntu
[15:16] <reya276> booh hoooh
[15:19] <maxolasersquad> reya276: I'll take on the HD if you will take on the invoice validation I'm working on. ;)
[15:19] <reya276> LOL
[15:19] <reya276> sounds like fun, what language are you using to build it
[15:41] <maxolasersquad> PL/SQL
[15:42] <maxolasersquad> We've been rewriting our inventory, invoicing, and billing system for about a year now.  It has to be ready by the end of February.
[15:46] <reya276> so you guys are using Oracle?
[15:46] <reya276> or Perl + SQL
[15:47] <maxolasersquad> Oracle and PHP
[16:01] <reya276> good combination
[16:01] <reya276> how is the DB performance?
[16:14] <maxolasersquad> Very good.
[16:15] <maxolasersquad> Performance-wise, I'm very happy with Oracle's database.
[16:17] <RoAkSoAx> win 4
[16:46] <zoopster> mhall119: you around?
[18:28] <dantalizing> morning
[19:16] <DammitJim> afternoon
[19:16] <DammitJim> hey guys, can someone recommend a good bluetooth headset?
[19:16] <DammitJim> I have the S9 from Motorola, but I'd like something more comfortable for the office
[19:37] <ShawnR> jawbone
[19:37] <ShawnR> i wont use anything else
[19:37] <maxolasersquad> Can anyone recommend a good git gui aside from gitk or gitg?
[19:38] <ShawnR> DammitJim: ppl ask me why my phone sounds crappy when i use any other bt headset
[19:47] <itnet7> dantalizing: pm?
[19:54] <reya276> hey can one of you guys help me out real quick
[19:55] <DammitJim> jawbone?
[19:56] <DammitJim> I just bought the S305
[19:56] <DammitJim> ShawnR, jawbone... model?
[20:05] <dorgan> hello all
[20:05] <dantalizing> 'sup dorgan
[20:05] <dorgan> nm
[20:06] <dorgan> ...how were your holidays
[20:06] <dantalizing> we spent december in india, so my holidays were relaxed.... yours?
[20:07] <dorgan> yeah mine were relaxed as well...I dont have any family down here....they all live in NY...and my wife just has her parents
[20:07] <dorgan> i did have a google cr48 show up on my doorstep the day before christmas eve...so that was an early present
[20:08] <dantalizing> nice
[20:08] <dantalizing> its too late to request one of those, right?
[20:09] <dorgan> i dont think so
[20:09] <dorgan> i dont think they've sent our 60,000 yet
[20:15] <maxolasersquad> I thought 12-21-2010 was the last day to request one.
[20:22] <dantalizing> i thought so too maxolasersquad
[20:23] <itnet7> I haven't received one yet :-(
[20:23] <itnet7> I think the deadline to request is passed, but I have the link, let me see if it redirects you
[20:27] <ShawnR> DammitJim: i have the jawbone icon, it is the third jawbone i've had (i drive around town all day and use them EVERY DAY for work, all day long)
[20:28] <DammitJim> I'm sorry... I meant headphones?
[20:28] <DammitJim> is that 2 of them for stereo?
[20:29] <itnet7> I was just able to register my wife on the link for the Chrome netbook
[20:30] <dantalizing> nice
[20:31] <itnet7> s/netbook/notebook/
[20:32] <ShawnR> ah, headphones
[20:32] <ShawnR> in that case, I like my Motorola S9s
[20:32] <ShawnR> i have the older red ones, the newer ones boast "surround sound" virtualization stuffs (and are gray/black)
[20:33] <DammitJim> ShawnR, I have those S9 but I only use them for running
[20:33] <DammitJim> my ear openings are rather small and they hurt after using them longer than an hour
[20:33] <DammitJim> I've tried the different adapters that they come with
[20:34] <DammitJim> have you heard anything about the S305s?
[20:36] <ShawnR> I use them for running, too
[20:36] <ShawnR> oh...
[20:36] <ShawnR> i have some like that (prior to S9s)
[20:36] <ShawnR> those aren't so comfy either
[20:36] <ShawnR> are you looking for sit down listening?
[20:37] <ShawnR> not cheap, but sound great! http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665095015 i use these for non-running (or non-lawn mowing)
[20:37] <ShawnR> the DR-BT50 from sony
[20:37] <ShawnR> i think walmart has em for like $129 or so
[21:50] <Spreadsheet> Hello
[21:50] <Spreadsheet> What do you do for releases?


[10:54] <psivaa> i find it inconsistent to have the app window close icon on the top left corner whilst the app's tab close buttons are on the top right
[10:55] <psivaa> this could have been discussed here prev but i am new :$
[11:53] <peterm-ubuntu> we are live!
[12:41] <abira> sup