[00:36] <ddsss> what is export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive  for?
[00:41] <sarnold> ddsss: to keep debconf from stopping an install to ask you a question
[00:45] <ddsss> sanderj_, makes sense. thanks
[00:45] <ddsss> sarnold, makes sense. thanks
[01:54] <jnix> howdy, the time has come for me to familiarize myself with ubuntu administration, any suggestions on where to start?
[01:54] <jnix> my bacground is with RHEL (RHCE)
[01:55] <lifeless> the wiki perhaps?
[01:56] <jnix> hoping to get fairly decent with it so i can start badgering my company to start supporting it too
[01:58] <jnix> the way you guys do apache is a ton different, this is my first area of study
[01:59] <sarnold> jnix: this may be a good starting point: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/httpd.html
[01:59] <jnix> the serverguide, this looks like exactly what i'm trying to find, sweet
[02:00] <jnix> first step is to stop trying to use chkconfig ;)
[02:01] <sarnold> hehe
[02:02] <sarnold> jnix: you'll probably need this bookmarked, at least for a while: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#override-files
[02:03] <jnix> will do, started my learning process by installing 12.04 on my home server, running a minimal kvm hypervisor currently, now i need to get my php scripts working again
[02:03] <jnix> thank goodness theres so much documentation out there
[02:07] <jnix> sweet.. i can use kickstart files with ubuntu!
[04:45] <IdleOne> pangolin: would you please stop trying to log into my nickserv account
[04:45] <IdleOne> every time you do nickserv sends me a notice.
[04:46] <IdleOne> that'll learn you
[05:02] <elkingrey> I'm in the process of learning my first programming language, Python. I'm still sort of a tech noob. I've been using Linux for three years. I built a VPS by following directions. I still host my own website. But anywho, I feel like I need to gain a better understanding of things like Apache, sockets, tcp/ip, and so many more things that I don't even know I need to know. What I'd really like is to be able to thorough know and understand my LAMP
[05:02] <elkingrey> stack and be a good sys admin for my server. For example, I run my own mail server. I never maintain it. It works and I can send and receive my email, but often times mail gets returned for being considered spam. Somebody once excoriated me because I don't know how to properly run a mail server, and that's why there's so much spam in the world. I don't even know where to go to learn how to be a good sys admin. I browsed some books on oreilly.co
[05:02] <elkingrey> m, but didn't find anything that relevant. Can somebody give me some good book recommendations to be a good sysadmin so that I can be a better programmer?
[05:49] <sarnold> elkingrey: wow, that's years worth of knowledge and experience you're looking to acquire :)
[05:50] <sarnold> elkingrey: knowing how things works is always worthwhile though; I strongly recommend W. Richard Steven's Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment for a good, all-around introduction to the operating system. It'll be too detailed in many places, but it'll be a fantastic reference for the next decade or two.
[05:52] <sarnold> elkingrey: understanding TCP/IP deeply is also extremely helpful; W. Richard Stevens also has many good TCP/IP books; I _think_ TCP/IP Illustrated is probably the series to get. Skip over the XPI and STREAMS stuff. Read the T/TCP stuff but realize none of it is going to happen.
[05:54] <sarnold> elkingrey: I learned absolute tons about email from reading the three-inch-thick ora sendmail book, but I wouldn't wish sendmail on anyone; postfix's manpages are good and detailed but I haven't found a similarly good "overview" page of the thing.
[05:57] <elkingrey> sarnold: Browsing your recommendations now. Thanks!
[05:58] <sarnold> elkingrey: hrm, I just now remember that djb's qmail docs seemed good, when I read them 10~13 years ago. I bet they'd hold up well, those might help provide some nice perspective on things
[06:06] <elkingrey> sarnold: Here's a book that looks important. http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596002978.do
[06:21] <sarnold> elkingrey: ah, yes!
[06:22] <sarnold> elkingrey: I read an earlier version of that book, I thought it was a touch light in places, but it'll probably serve you better than TCP/IP Illustrated.
[06:26] <sarnold> elkingrey: this website will help you understand some of the deep deep linux networking magic: http://www.lartc.org/
[07:54] <koolhead17> hi all
[10:06] <_ruben> oh boy .. do i get to hate perl's RRDs module's thread unsafety .. sigh
[10:15] <io> you seem intent on using that nick and trying to identify to it
[10:16] <io> pangolin: feel free to register the nick. I ungrouped it.
[10:44] <pgp> Hi, i got problem with my ubuntu server, eth0 isnt coming on after a scheduled reboot :(
[10:45] <pgp> i can see the network controller in lspci
[10:45] <pgp> i keep getting msg No DHCPOFFERS received.
[10:47] <pgp> anyone please.
[10:48] <SuperMatt> well, sounds like your DHCP isn't offering it an IP address
[10:48] <pgp> well i've tried same router plugged into windows machine.
[10:48] <pgp> picks up fine
[10:48] <pgp> with same cable
[10:48] <SuperMatt> weird
[10:48] <pgp> when i do ifconfig eth0 it isnt showing me any ip address.
[10:49] <pgp> routing table is empty
[10:49] <SuperMatt> well it sounds like your router just isn't offering the ip address... have you tried rebooting/resetting the router?
[10:50] <pgp> its working fine with other devices SuperMatt...
[10:50] <pgp> also i dont know if i should be alarmed.
[10:50] <pgp> ethenet lights do not lit up?
[10:50] <pgp> on my ubuntu server.
[10:50] <SuperMatt> ah
[10:50] <pgp> where the cable goes in.
[10:50] <SuperMatt> sounds like there's a physical problem
[10:50] <pgp> bummer!
[10:51] <SuperMatt> as in, the connector just isn't working
[10:51] <SuperMatt> ubuntu may recognise the chip, but it sounds like the port is deaded
[10:51] <SuperMatt> though have a look inside the port for some fluff, maybe
[10:52] <pgp> ok
[10:53] <pgp> no luck...
[10:53] <pgp> am i correct in thinking that lights should lit up no matter wt?
[10:53] <SuperMatt> when I went to uni, I had an ethernet port in my room. I couldn't plug in my ethernet cable, so I investigated. I found a broken off "tab" from the last user's ethernet cable
[10:53] <SuperMatt> some people just don't know how to remove ethernet cables
[10:54] <SuperMatt> yeah, one should come on straight away
[10:54] <SuperMatt> it basically means it has power
[10:54] <SuperMatt> shouldn't matter if the os have brought the device up
[10:54] <pgp> i thought so,
[10:54] <pgp> well nothing changed really, only change that happened was scheduled reboot
[10:54] <pgp> and after that it never came back on
[10:55] <SuperMatt> hurm
[10:55] <SuperMatt> have you checked the bios? could be a bios option changed to turn it off
[10:55] <pgp> checked already
[10:55] <pgp> disabled and re-enabled.
[10:56] <SuperMatt> I'd be looking in to getting another nic then
[10:56] <SuperMatt> is it on the motherboard or is it a daughter board?
[10:56] <pgp> onboard :(
[10:56] <SuperMatt> I think it's new nic time then
[10:57] <pgp> i got a usb wifi stick
[10:58] <pgp> is it straight forward to configure them from command prompt
[13:14] <avickery>  I installed Ubuntu desktop a while back and then installed each lamp component manually. Worked great. I could access the server from any device in the house by browsing to http://xx.local. I wanted learn more about the command line so I installed ubuntu server and  did the same manual install of LAMP. I can access it by IP address but not by name, what gives?
[13:16] <ogra_> you want avahi-daemon to get the .local domain
[13:18] <avickery> Is it not installed by default and do I need to get rid of bind9?
[13:19] <ogra_> it is installed on the desktop but not in servers by default
[13:19] <ogra_> no idea if it clashes with bind
[13:19] <ogra_> i doubt it though
[13:19] <avickery> sudo apt-get install avahi-daemon?
[13:21] <ogra_> right
[13:21] <ogra_> if it doesnt work OOTB restert your network or reboot
[13:22] <avickery> Rock n' Roll. Worked in like 2 seconds. You rule! Thank you!
[14:04] <mah454> Hello
[14:05] <mah454> How can do this ? http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/vpn-connection-peer-user-4175444976/
[14:14] <samba35> is it advisable to install pre-release package ?
[14:25] <gema> Daviey: ping
[14:26] <Daviey> gema: pong-a-dong
[14:29] <sw> Hi, is there a guide for upgrading a 12.04 server -> 12.10 via command line?
[14:30] <[conrad]> sw: do-release-upgrade should do the trick for you. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but a month or two ago when I used that approach to go to 12.10, I had a few additional steps because 12.10 was not considered stable.
[14:32] <[conrad]> Has something changed with isc-dhcp-server in Ubuntu 12.x ( in this case using the Alternative CD to do an LTSP server install? ). I had previously used deny unknown-clients; in combination with the removal of the range ( as proposed by shauno and patdk-lap ), and found this to work as expected, which was to allow a second DHCP server to run in our environment exclusively for thin clients who are "approved" via a host definiti
[14:32] <[conrad]> on with static ip's by MAC addresses, without interfering with the first ( which handles all other devices on the network ). Since deploying the 12.04 item, we've found some devices seem to still try and make a request from the DHCP server ( for which they are never given a response, which is partially correct )
[14:33] <ogra_> sw, you need to edit /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades  on 12.04 to use non LTS for upgrading (by default 12.04 would only upgrade to 14.04), then use do-release-upgrade
[14:40] <sw> ogra_ Thanks.
[14:46] <hallyn> jamespage: ping on ipxe push?
[14:51] <M0rsa> Hello. Has anyone used squid and snort together over a bridge connection before. I've asked here before but I just got some guy saying it won't work w/out giving me any reason why
[14:51]  * jamespage puts down jenkins for a bit
[14:51] <jamespage> hallyn: sorry - been dealing with a jenkins security issue
[14:51] <jamespage> hallyn, I'll look right now
[14:52] <M0rsa> Hello?
[14:52] <M0rsa> Anyone live here?
[14:52] <M0rsa> Hello?
[14:52] <M0rsa> Anyone here?
[14:53] <jamespage> bye
[14:55] <jamespage> hallyn, is the end plan to get rid of kvm-ipxe?  i.e. transition to ipxe-qemu?
[14:58] <feisar> I have 12.04 server running with raid1 and I'd like to install the grub bootloader on both disks (sda, sdb) but I'm getting the following error: '/dev/mapper/../dm-0 does not have any corresponding BIOS drive'. Could anyone point me in the right direction?
[14:58] <feisar> (the command I'm running is sudo grub-install --recheck /dev/sda)
[15:02] <patdk-wk> you install it to sda and sdb
[15:05] <feisar> well I need the system to boot even if I remove a failed disk, at the moment it will only boot if one specific drive is plugged in
[15:05] <feisar> sda and sdb make md0 (raid1)
[15:06] <feisar> but I think at the moment grub2 is only installed on the mbr of sda
[15:06] <feisar> if that makes sense
[15:08] <feisar> should I be running 'grub-install /dev/md0'?
[15:10] <sw> Hi, if I wanted to block all traffic apart from SSH connections on port 22 from <IP_ADDRESS>, can someone give an example of the command?
[15:12] <feisar> use ufw
[15:12] <feisar> ufw default deny
[15:13] <feisar> ufw allow tcp/22
[15:13] <feisar> ufw emable
[15:13] <feisar> *enable
[15:13] <feisar> oh sorry that allows any connections to 22
[15:14] <sw> Why ufw over iptables?
[15:14] <hallyn> jamespage: probably
[15:14] <feisar> ufw creates your iptables rules for you
[15:15] <sw> So again, why ufw over iptables?
[15:15] <hallyn> jamespage: but at the moment i wanted to minimize the already huge # of moving pieces
[15:15] <jamespage> hallyn, so why not just depend on kvm-ipxe until we are ready to change its name?
[15:16] <feisar> sw: ufw allow from <IP_ADDRESS> to any port 22
[15:16] <jdstrand> sw: ufw is a frontend for iptables. it handles common situations and integrates into the boot process. it provides an easy mechanism to update your firewall and a framework for configuring it
[15:17] <jdstrand> sw: it works particularly well as a host-based firewall. you can learn more about it with 'man ufw' and 'man ufw-framework'
[15:18] <hallyn> jamespage: to minimize the delta from debian for qemu...
[15:18] <hallyn> i'm trying to make future merges as simple as possible
[15:18] <jamespage> hallyn, ah - so qemu in debian depends on ipxe-qemu?
[15:18] <hallyn> right
[15:19] <hallyn> kvm-ipxe (/qemu-ipxe) also needs to drop 3 of the links it ships so qemu can ship them as it does in debian, but again i'm putting that off right now
[15:19] <sw> jdstrand So why should it be used over iptables?
[15:19] <sw> Or, 'instead of using iptables directly', I mean.
[15:20] <feisar> sw: if you want to use iptables, go ahead, or you could use ufw to create some iptables rules for you, either is fine. ufw is a little easier
[15:20] <jdstrand> sw: because it makes things easier for you
[15:20] <jdstrand> sw: if you don't care about that, use iptables
[15:20] <jdstrand> directly
[15:21] <sw> jdstrand I'm not saying I don't care, I'm asking a question as to how. And so far all I've gathered is 'it's just easier'. How is it easier, is what I'm asking?
[15:22] <jdstrand> sw: I just said why it is easier: it handles common situations and integrates into the boot process. it provides an easy mechanism to update your firewall and a framework for configuring it'
[15:22] <sw> Common situations?
[15:22] <jdstrand> sw: perhaps perusing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UncomplicatedFirewall would demonstrate it better
[15:23] <feisar> sw: I gave you the commands you need to achieve what you want, using ufw. What you want to achieve is a common request. use those commands and get up and running or go and learn how to create rules directly using iptables
[15:24] <sw> Or you could have just given the iptables command, which is the question that was asked?
[15:24] <sw> Thanks anyway.
[15:25] <jdstrand> sw: iptables rules are not persistent
[15:25] <jdstrand> sw: and a simple iptables rule isn't enough to configure a firewall for the system
[15:25] <ssvss> HI, I have ubuntu-server running in virtual box. I wanted to increase the hd size. from the virtual box side I have increased the size. it shows the new size when checking from the host. how can I extend the hd size in the ubuntu-server guest machine.
[15:26] <jdstrand> sw: so you need to do things like configure ingress, egress, dhcp, logging, loading the firewall on boot, etc
[15:26] <jdstrand> sw: and ufw provides that
[15:26] <jamespage> hallyn, OK - I understand - working right now
[15:27] <jdstrand> 'sudo ufw allow OpenSSH && sudo ufw enable' and you have a working firewall. to see what it is doing under the hood, read the man pages I mentioned and look at the rules in /etc/ufw
[15:29] <feisar> how do I install grub on the mbr of a disk when the disk is part of a raid1?
[15:31] <sw> jdstrand so ufw enable;ufw default deny;ufw allow from <IP_ADDRESS> to any port 22 does more than iptables -A INPUT -s <IP_ADDRESS>/24 --destination-ports 22 -j ACCEPT; iptables -P INPUT DROP?
[15:33] <feisar> they would do different things
[15:33] <jdstrand> sw: yes (and you could just use 'ufw allow from <IP_ADDRESS> to any app OpenSSH ; ufw enable'
[15:33] <jdstrand> sw: like I said, it makes it so your rule is applied on reboot. sets up allowing dhcp, etc
[15:34] <sw> jdstrand Ok I'll use that, just seems odd 'speaking to it' rather than the default --options.
[15:35] <jdstrand> sw: to learn more, examine /etc/ufw/*rules and 'man ufw-framework'
[16:20] <jamespage> hallyn, uploaded
[16:24] <hallyn> jamespage: thanks!
[16:24]  * hallyn biab
[16:56] <thesheff17> anyone know allot about unattended-upgrades....I'm starting to test this some with 12.04 and some machines get 20auto-upgrades.ucf-dist
[16:56] <thesheff17> and the apt-get complains
[17:05] <matt_keys> I could use some help troubleshooting a Marvell 88E8001 GbE NIC on 12.10amd64 desktop. the link shows up, however it won't ping the gateway and the gateway can't ping it. ifconfig shows 2 "overruns"... i'm not sure what that means
[17:05] <matt_keys> pastebin.com/zmFTBwk2
[17:08] <matt_keys> this nic is dedicated for iscsi traffic. the other nic, eth0, is connected the exact same way and is working fine. i did have mtu set at 9000, but i backed it back down to 1500 and restarted to see if that was the cause. the switches are all "dumb"
[17:17] <ssvss> q
[17:38] <ssvss> Hi, when I run ubuntu server as virtuabox guest. when I increase the hd size from 8GB to 50GB, the ubuntu-server guest doesn't recognize the increased size. but the same works fine on ubuntu-desktop.
[17:39] <ssvss> After increasing the hd size, following command "blockdev --getsize64 /dev/sda5" in server shows the old hd size, but in ubuntu-destop it shows the increased hd size correctly
[17:39] <ssvss> any idea what I can do further to make it work in the server.
[17:39] <patdk-wk> reboot
[17:40] <patdk-wk> dunno if a scsi rescan would do it or not
[17:40] <ssvss> I increase the hd size after powering down the vm only. and check the size after a fresh boot
[17:40] <patdk-wk> how did you check the size?
[17:41] <ssvss> I used this cmd  - ""blockdev --getsize64 /dev/sda5'
[17:41] <patdk-wk> why would you expect it to change size?
[17:41] <patdk-wk> you checked the size of a partition, not the disk
[17:43] <sarnold> I thought '5' was special, used for storing the _other_ extended partitions?
[17:43] <patdk-wk> partitions 1-4 are *REAL* mbr partitions, 5+ is for logical partitions
[17:43] <patdk-wk> or extended partitions
[17:43] <patdk-wk> still, it's a partition, not a disk
[17:44] <patdk-wk> you checked the partition size, not the disk size
[17:44] <RoyK> patdk-wk: extended partition must be on 1-4
[17:44] <RoyK> logicals inside one extended
[17:44] <patdk-wk> confusing, it's just a partition containing partitions :)
[17:48] <RoyK> patdk-wk: and you can have only one extended partition...
[17:49] <patdk-wk> not sure, never used them
[17:49] <sarnold> this kind of fiddly old stuff is why I've stuck to / /boot swap /home on my drives -- anything finer-grained means figuring out the odd details.
[17:49] <patdk-wk> oh, I do have /boot, /, /home, /usr, /var, /??? seperate on many systems
[17:49] <RoyK> patdk-wk: beleive me on that ;)
[17:49] <patdk-wk> but those systems don't use partitions
[17:49] <RoyK> patdk-wk: having /usr on a separate partition is so ninetees :)
[17:50] <patdk-wk> not when it causes the system to take forever to boot
[17:50] <patdk-wk> my freebsd systems, won't boot till fsck is done on the /, so I make it only like 1gig
[17:50] <patdk-wk> and everything else seperate
[17:51] <RoyK> doesn't fbsd have journaled filesystems these days?
[17:51] <patdk-wk> these days/ probably
[17:51] <patdk-wk> 3years ago when it was setup? using ufs2
[17:51] <patdk-wk> I think it's ufs they use
[17:52]  * RoyK concludes that sitting mostly still for three months and then taking a small hour's bike ride makes some bodyparts ache...
[17:52] <sarnold> RoyK: iirc, journalled softupdates is work-in-progress
[17:52] <RoyK> k
[17:53] <ssvss> I am not sure why I used /dev/sda5. I followed an advice from vbox channel. Now when I check the disk size using "fdisk -l", it shows the increased size. any help on how I can extend the partion to increased size.
[17:53] <ssvss> https://gist.github.com/4504203
[17:54] <patdk-wk> ssvss, hmm, it should never auto-expand automatically
[17:54] <patdk-wk> you just need to use whatever patition program you want, gparted, fdisk, parted, ...
[17:55] <patdk-wk> and increase it
[17:55] <patdk-wk> then you will have to run resizefs to increase the filesystem
[17:56] <RoyK> patdk-wk: or resize2fs
[17:56] <patdk-wk> something like that
[17:56] <RoyK> exctly like that (if on ext[234])
[17:56] <patdk-wk> won't bash spellcheck? :)
[17:56] <RoyK> or autocomplete...
[17:57] <RoyK> well, it suggests alternate commands
[17:57] <RoyK> so yes
[18:20] <Flavr> hello guys :)!
[18:21] <SpamapS> you know, even though hpcloud doesn't have a local mirror.. it downloads packages pretty darn fast from the main mirrors
[18:21] <Flavr> Anyone got any idea how to set up hiphop php ? :o
[18:21] <SpamapS> Fetched 55.0 MB in 17s (3197 kB/s)
[18:21] <SpamapS> Flavr: how many requests per second do you handle across all of your servers?
[18:22] <sarnold> SpamapS: not bad, faster than my home connectin anyway
[18:22] <SpamapS> sarnold: well its faster than my 20Mbit too. :)
[18:22] <Flavr> Spamaps We got big sponsors wait second
[18:22] <SpamapS> Flavr: if its less than 10000, you don't need hiphop php.
[18:23] <Flavr> We got server with 16 cpu 16gb ram and 200gb.... and we are setting up it on short url service...
[18:24] <SpamapS> one server
[18:24] <Flavr> tup
[18:24] <Flavr> yup
[18:24] <SpamapS> Flavr: http://www.hilarious-pictures.com/sites/www.hilarious-pictures.com/files/images/youre-doing-it-wrong.jpeg
[18:25] <Flavr> Sure I am, JUST designer...
[18:25] <Flavr> Who need developers...
[18:25] <SpamapS> Flavr: let me introduce you to this cloud thing...
[18:25] <Flavr> Its cloud server :o
[18:25] <SpamapS> right, but you're still doing it wrong
[18:25] <Flavr> cloud server node *
[18:25] <SpamapS> see the point is *lots of cloud nodes*
[18:25] <SpamapS> not one big one
[18:26] <Flavr>  i see :o
[18:26] <Flavr> so you just say i sould run normal lamp stack ? :o
[18:26] <SpamapS> Flavr: in your situation, I'd recommend a PaaS
[18:26] <Flavr> what about tornado web server ?
[18:26] <SpamapS> Flavr: let people who know how to scale php do it for you.
[18:27] <Flavr> okey so what about the future.... if we get bigger and get more requests... sould we then move to hiphop ?
[18:32] <SpamapS> Flavr: look at what hip hop tells you. Its not like, 5x faster or anything
[18:32] <Flavr> okey... so what about tornado web server ? :o
[18:32] <Flavr> any benefits ?
[18:32] <SpamapS> Flavr: never heard of it
[18:33] <SpamapS> Flavr: honestly, your problem is not your software. Its your architecture.
[18:33] <Flavr> its from facebook too... lol
[18:33] <SpamapS> Flavr: let s PaaS vendor do this for you. They'll scale the PHP out, and handle things like databases and loadbalancers.. you just write your code.
[18:34] <Flavr> Tornado is an open source version of the scalable, non-blocking web server and tools that power FriendFeed. The FriendFeed application is written using a web framework that looks a bit like web.py or Google's webapp, but with additional tools and optimizations to take advantage of the underlying non-blocking infrastructure.
[18:34] <Flavr> SpamapS lol :p
[18:34] <Flavr> I am designer...
[18:34] <SpamapS> right
[18:34] <Flavr> We are looking for developers...
[18:34] <SpamapS> who isn't?
[18:34] <Flavr> Just trying... to figure what would ok to do...
[18:36] <Flavr> Btw.... any idea how we could handle out multiple requests... like randomly... generates... flvr.io flvr.me flvr.im
[18:53] <TheBronx> hi all!
[18:54] <TheBronx> I need help again, under a syn flood attack I see this message: "dst cache overflow" a lot of times.
[18:55] <TheBronx> and the network goes down until I force a remote restart of the server
[18:55] <TheBronx> is it possible to solve this problem?
[18:56] <sarnold> TheBronx: talk to hetzner. get them to nail down the largest sources upstream.
[18:56] <TheBronx> hey, hi sarnold! upgrading to ubuntu 12 solved the first problem (the link up problem) hehe
[18:57] <TheBronx> it is not hetzner directly, it is "providerservice.com", and they told me they don't provide any firewall
[18:57] <TheBronx> so I'm trying to mitigate the problem just with software...
[18:58] <Flavr> iptables ? :o
[18:58] <TheBronx> csf yeah
[18:58] <TheBronx> with SYNFLOOD activated
[18:58] <TheBronx> wait a second
[18:58] <Flavr> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp ! --syn -m state --state NEW -j DROP
[18:59] <sarnold> TheBronx: heh, nullrouting flood sources is just part of being a network provider, I'm afraid. I'd expect them to call hetzner then and push for the largest sources of flooding to be ignored for a while..
[18:59] <TheBronx> http://pastebin.com/rxBN6HU1
[18:59] <sarnold> TheBronx: glad to hear the one problem went away on upgrade though :) woo
[19:00] <TheBronx> as you can see CSF was doing great xD but then the error came up
[19:01] <TheBronx> they provide a "blackhole" when I'm under attack
[19:01] <sarnold> they switched attacks from syn to random udp flooding
[19:01] <TheBronx> but once the server is up, they attack again and again and again... and tomorrow will be 7 days under attack
[19:02] <Flavr> If you are not running a game server and are a victim of UDP attacks, request from your hosting provider that UDP traffic to your IP address or IP addresses are blocked. Most VPS or hosting providers will be more than glad to implement preventative measures to prevent problems to their network and customers.
[19:02] <TheBronx> yeah, I don't need UDP at all. But the attack is against port 80 TCP
[19:04] <Flavr> got apache installed ? :o or what ?
[19:04] <TheBronx> yes, but apache is not the problem. The network crashes, apache is idle
[19:05] <TheBronx> so, what does "dst cache overflow" mean? is it possible to increase the size of that buffer?
[19:05] <Flavr> mod evasive got ? :o
[19:05] <TheBronx> the attack succeeds even with apache stopped
[19:06] <escott> TheBronx, destination cache (ie routing table)
[19:06] <TheBronx> where can I increase the size of that table?
[19:06] <TheBronx> I have 8GB of RAM, only using about 2GB
[19:06] <escott> TheBronx, http://www.enyo.de/fw/security/notes/linux-dst-cache-dos.html
[19:07] <TheBronx> it that table is stored in memmory I don't care
[19:07] <TheBronx> ok, thanks!
[19:07] <Flavr> try ?  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_syncookies = 1
[19:07] <sarnold> escott: excellent.
[19:07] <Flavr> oh
[19:08] <Flavr> :d
[19:08] <TheBronx> sysctl.conf -> http://pastebin.com/HUk0RVip syn cookies already enabled
[19:08] <TheBronx> I will read the article, thanks escott
[19:15] <TheBronx> Which Linux version resolves this issue?
[19:15] <TheBronx> This issue is resolved in Linux 2.4.21.
[19:15] <TheBronx> really? xD
[19:16] <sarnold> I wouldn' be surprised if an updated version of the attack has been made
[19:17] <sarnold> since 2003 or 2004 (when that paper was written) the hash functions in common languages have been forced through several iterations
[19:17] <sarnold> perhaps the kernel's dst cache hash function needs another re-work
[19:18] <TheBronx> if I do understand it correctly the attack tries to provoke a collision in the routing table
[19:19] <escott> TheBronx, yes
[19:19] <TheBronx> a collision produces a dst cache overflow?
[19:19] <escott> TheBronx, hash tables reduce to linked lists when there is a collision
[19:20] <TheBronx> yeah, and the performance is reduced. but how about the overflow?
[19:20] <escott> TheBronx, so you collide and reduce to a linked list or fixed length array at which point it can either overflow or hit some performance limit
[19:21] <TheBronx> ok, so the linked list has in fact less capacity than the hash table
[19:21] <escott> TheBronx, its also possible that there is some other kind of overflow going on. if the kernel has a total size limit on the table you might just fill it by trying to make the entire IP space routable
[19:23] <TheBronx> is it possible to disable route cache under a DDoS so that there is no overflow, collision or whatever?
[19:24] <TheBronx> cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/route/max_size
[19:24] <TheBronx> 4194304
[19:24] <TheBronx> seems big... isn't it?
[19:25] <escott> TheBronx, thats probably in bytes
[19:25] <escott> TheBronx, which is only 4Kb so one page... ie not that large
[19:25] <TheBronx> I have no idea, but the article says: "echo 4096 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/route/max_size"
[19:26] <TheBronx> so, option 1, reducing the size to avoid collisions. option 2, increase the size to avoid overflow
[19:27] <escott> TheBronx, if you did that echo from a root terminal you would set the max_size to 4Kb and then you would see that file output a size of 419434 bytes
[19:27] <TheBronx> oh. ok, newbie fails hehe
[19:27] <escott> TheBronx, reducing the size would increase collisions. for reference mine is 8Kb
[19:27] <escott> TheBronx, and thats Linux HAF-UBUNTU 3.5.0-21-generic #32-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 11 18:51:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[19:29] <TheBronx> so, increasing the size can help. They will attack again and I will see if that helped
[19:31] <escott> TheBronx, you could also decrease the timeout/increase the frequency with which the GC runs
[19:32] <TheBronx> how can I do that? sorry but I'm not a linux expert (not even close)
[19:33] <escott> TheBronx, the other tunables for the routing cache are in that same folder
[19:33] <escott> TheBronx, best thing to do is to figure out a way to block the attacks. everything else is just papering over the issue
[19:34] <TheBronx> when CSF blocks an IP, does it delete the entry in the routing table?
[19:36] <escott> TheBronx, presumably not, but after some time it should get purged from the table
[19:37] <RoyK> Flavr, sarnold: for those tcp_syncookies to be persistent, use sysctl
[19:39] <TheBronx> yeah, but I don't know what shoud I put in sysctl, 4096?
[19:39] <RoyK> btw, tcp_syncookies are on as of default on 12.04 and 10.04
[19:39] <TheBronx> net.ipv4.route.max_size = 4096?
[19:40] <escott> TheBronx, that sounds like what you currently have. so setting that value wouldn't change it
[19:40] <RoyK> TheBronx: what routing protocols do you use?
[19:41] <TheBronx> error: technical question :P sorry, how can I answer that RoyK?
[19:42] <TheBronx> oh, and hi RoyK!
[19:42] <RoyK> ho
[19:42] <TheBronx> tcpdump capture during the attack: http://i.imgur.com/aZl21.png
[19:42] <TheBronx> net.ipv4.route.max_size = 16384 then, x4
[19:43] <TheBronx> those are spoofed ips?
[19:43] <RoyK> TheBronx: that's a truckload of SYNs - I doubt the route settings will help much - SYNs aren't put in routing tables, are they?
[19:43] <escott> TheBronx, they are just progressing through 204.253 why not block that subnet
[19:44] <RoyK> ufw block ...
[19:44] <TheBronx> this is not the only block xD those are just a few packets
[19:44] <TheBronx> there are a lot of blocks, very different
[19:45] <TheBronx> SYNs are blocked by CSF, but the problem is that the network crashes due to the dst cache overflow
[19:45] <RoyK> TheBronx: you're getting DDoSed
[19:45] <RoyK> you can't block SYN alone
[19:45] <RoyK> that'll stop all TCP traffic
[19:47] <TheBronx> these options were not in sysctl during the attack:
[19:47] <TheBronx> # Enable IP spoofing protection, turn on source route verification
[19:47] <TheBronx> net.ipv4.conf.all.rp_filter = 1
[19:47] <TheBronx> net.ipv4.conf.lo.rp_filter = 1
[19:47] <TheBronx> net.ipv4.conf.eth0.rp_filter = 1
[19:47] <TheBronx> net.ipv4.conf.default.rp_filter = 1
[19:47] <RoyK> !pastebin
[19:47] <RoyK> TheBronx: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-kernel-etcsysctl-conf-security-hardening/
[19:47] <addisonj> someone piss of 4chan? ;)
[19:47] <RoyK> read this yet?
[19:48] <TheBronx> nope, thanks!
[19:48] <TheBronx> cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/route/max_size
[19:48] <TheBronx> 16384
[19:49] <TheBronx> oops, unit problem hehe
[19:51] <TheBronx> routing table cache increased (x4) and sysctl is much more complete now
[19:51] <TheBronx> lets see what happens in the next attack
[19:51] <TheBronx> I don't know if CSF can ban entire blocks if it finds lets say 3 or 4 very similar IPs
[19:53] <RoyK> CSF?
[19:53] <TheBronx> iptables for newbies hehe
[19:53] <RoyK> not ufw?
[19:54] <TheBronx> I have to leave, thank you guys again. RoyK, sarnold. Thank you, really, I'm learning a lot and I'm not thinking of killing people =)
[19:54] <sarnold> TheBronx: good luck :)
[19:54] <sarnold> TheBronx: oh!
[19:54] <sarnold> TheBronx: wait1
[19:55] <TheBronx> yes?
[19:55] <sarnold> TheBronx: the point of the article escott found was to _lower_ the size of the dst cache, to reduce the expenses of every incoming packet
[19:55] <TheBronx> yeah, thats what I understood at first
[19:55] <TheBronx> but dont worry, if increasing doesnt work, I will try the oposite hehe
[19:56] <RoyK> just decrease it ;)
[19:56] <TheBronx> (i don't think the attack is that sophisticated, collisions... it is probably a bored kid)
[19:56] <TheBronx> have to leave now, thank you again!!!!!!!!!!!
[20:06] <Flavr> hey yaa
[20:06] <Flavr> can some one tell me clear out about big data
[20:07] <Jeeves_> Flavr: Take a byte. Copy it a gazillion times
[20:07] <Jeeves_> and you have big data. PROFIT!
[20:07] <RoyK> Flavr: what?
[20:07] <Flavr> hmm
[20:08] <RoyK> what about big data?
[20:08] <Flavr> I am just thinking cause they are looking alot big data spealists
[20:08] <Flavr> Would like to learn more
[20:08] <RoyK> well, I'm managing a few hundred terabytes
[20:08] <RoyK> I'd rather do it on zfs than on what we're using now, but still
[20:09] <Flavr> okey can you tell me litle more about it... I know basics about lamp stack... so maybe if i understand ?
[20:09] <escott> Flavr, read the original mapreduce paper
[20:09] <escott> Flavr, http://fastandfuriousdecisiontree.googlecode.com/svn-history/r474/trunk/DIVERS/mapReduceByGoogle.pdf
[20:10] <Flavr> thanks i will read it out
[20:10] <escott> sarnold, i didn't actually read that link (perhaps I should have) just seemed that it would explain what the dst cache was
[20:11] <sarnold> escott: it did, and gave good advice on mitigation :) it even seemed familiar to my eight-year-old-neurons which might have read it once before.. :)
[20:12] <adam_g> zul: im still confused about the openstack master tarballs.  if the per-commit tarballs are going away, what does the $proj-master.tar.gz represent?
[20:12] <RoyK> Flavr: it's just mysql (or postgres?) and apache (or something?) with php
[20:12] <RoyK> Flavr: it's nothing magic about it
[20:13] <zul> its the same thing just not versioned
[20:13] <Flavr> na i am just thinking why hell they got somany place open...
[20:13] <Flavr> if its just some basic...
[20:13] <RoyK> Flavr: what do you want to know?
[20:14] <RoyK> mysql and linux and php and apache are all open
[20:14] <Flavr> Yep so what is the big deal in hadoop ? :o
[20:14] <RoyK> so are postgresql and a diverse set of other webservers
[20:14] <Flavr> Can anyone install it on anykind server ?
[20:14] <escott> Flavr, hadoop/mapreduce are very different from SQL/traditional RDBMS
[20:14] <RoyK> hadoop is another thing
[20:15] <Flavr> hmm :o... any kind books out there ? :o about hadoop and big data ?
[20:15] <RoyK> Flavr: what are you building?
[20:16] <Flavr> I am looking for job
[20:16] <escott> Flavr, when people talk about big data they usually mean that they are willing to sacrifice something in the traditional relational database in order to get decent performance when working with very large datasets
[20:16] <RoyK> heh
[20:16] <Flavr> as "big data " specialist lol
[20:16] <RoyK> Flavr: you don't become a "big data" specialist until you've actually worked with big data
[20:16] <Flavr> yep thats why I think how i could get in tho that...
[20:16] <escott> Flavr, usually consistency is relaxed in favor of something like eventual consistency
[20:16] <RoyK> theory you can learn, but all sort of shite come up later
[20:17] <Flavr> what they mean with data crafting / mining ? :o
[20:17] <escott> Flavr, mapreduce drops the SQL type query processing for something more limited but more scalable
[20:17] <Flavr> sounds like wow game lol..
[20:19] <Flavr> so i need hadoop and some kind map /reduce program
[20:19] <Flavr> lol
[20:19] <Flavr> need set up vps server and get in to it
[20:19] <sarnold> or just do it on your laptop
[20:19] <Flavr> sarnold tip me out litle bit ? :o
[20:20] <Flavr> so ineed hadoop what else ? :O
[20:20] <sarnold> Flavr: a way to generate huge piles of nonsense data to work with :)
[20:20] <Flavr> oh i see..
[20:21] <Flavr> awesome that we got community that helps out..
[20:21] <Flavr> lol
[20:22] <addisonj> Flavr: why don't you just google "hadoop tutorial" or "hadoop for dummies" and see what comes up?
[20:22] <Flavr> haha thanks :)
[20:23] <Flavr> omg some indian guys.. that why.... so messy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziqx2hJY8Hg
[20:26] <Flavr> 45 minutes...
[20:26] <Flavr> omg
[20:35] <jiboumans> smoser: if you're around, I could use your wisdom on building AMIs. I'm building a new AMI from the ubuntu stock 10.04 one, and oddly enough, the ephemeral hard drives are getting remapped and I can't quite figure out how to fix that.
[20:35] <smoser> remapped ?
[20:36] <RoyK> Flavr: really - learn basic administration, learn that well, then, after a years of practice, you may learn enough to *learn* large systems
[20:36] <jiboumans> smoser: they're /dev/sd* on the machine i'm building from, but upon boot, they're /dev/xvd*
[20:36] <jiboumans> (upon boot of the new ami)
[20:37] <jiboumans> smoser: using ec2-bundle-vol -B … ephemeral0=sdb makes fstab have the '/dev/sdb' entry, but upon boot, the devices are still /dev/xvd*. setting ephemeral0=xvdb throws this error when registering the ami: Client.InvalidManifest: Invalid block device mapping: Invalid device name 'xvdb'
[20:38] <jiboumans> interestingly enough, the non-ephemeral drives are /dev/sda* no matter what.
[20:39] <smoser> jiboumans, it just has to do with the kernel
[20:40] <smoser> xen is stupid
[20:40] <jiboumans> smoser: hmm, that rings a bell - i think the ami host has an updated kernel, but did not reboot (yet).
[20:40] <smoser> the kernel you're booting names those devices xvd*
[20:41] <jiboumans> that might cause the confusion there...
[20:41] <jiboumans> smoser: for my understanding, how come there's still /dev/sda* on the newly booted machine?
[20:44] <smoser> it jsut depends on the kernel
[20:44] <smoser> maybe its running an older kernel?
[20:44] <resno> hey yall question. whats the most lean version of ubuntu to use in a vm enviroment?
[20:46] <jiboumans> smoser: actually, the point of the ami is to update the stock kernel (and some other stuff), so it runs:  2.6.38-16-virtual #67~lucid1-Ubuntu SMP x86_64
[20:47] <smoser> i dont follow. at some point in lucid-updates the kernel changed its naming for /dev/sd[x] to /dev/xvd[x] (i think)
[20:49] <jiboumans> so, the ami-builder host is running stock 10.04, just as you released the image. the ami i'm trying to build installs some stuff by default, including an updated kernel (the one i just pasted above). one of the side effects appears to be that /mnt is no longer mounted, because the device names changed.
[20:49] <jiboumans> i (wrongly) assumed it had to do with the flags one passed to ec2-bundle-vol
[20:50] <smoser> its possible its a bug in cloud-init in lucid that doesn't realize that new name
[20:51] <jiboumans> if cloud-init intends to alter the fstab based on the devices detected, then yes, it doesn't do that
[20:52] <jiboumans> the fstab is identical to what was shipped from the builder
[20:54] <smoser> jiboumans, ah. ok so it makes more sense now.
[20:54] <smoser> you're wanting to run some > lucid kernel, right?
[20:54] <jiboumans> yup
[20:55] <wdev> As per the directions on the Ubuntu Kerberos docs, I'm here out of some level of desperation.  Has anybody set up a KDC on 12.04?
[20:57] <smoser> jiboumans, it is bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/611137
[20:58] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1517992/ is the commit, jiboumans
[20:59] <jiboumans> smoser: thanks. did that ever make it to lucid-updates?
[21:00] <smoser> no.
[21:00] <smoser> but you could nominate for release, and i do the work and i'd sponsor the upload for you
[21:17] <jiboumans> smoser: ah, missed that comment. that'd be fine by me, but i don't think i have the permission to nominate that bug in LP
[21:17] <SpamapS> smoser: hey, do Ubuntu's cloud images no longer inject a bunch of static randomness into the entropy pool?
[21:18] <SpamapS> jiboumans: o/
[21:18] <jiboumans> SpamapS: o/
[21:18] <jiboumans> long time no see
[21:18] <smoser> jiboumans, you can probably nhominate you just can't accept
[21:19] <smoser> SpamapS, i dont think they ever did inject static randomness.
[21:19] <smoser> but a static randomness stored inside in a public image is quite arguably no better than no randomness.
[21:20] <SpamapS> smoser: its faster.. but definitely no better. ;)
[21:20] <jiboumans> smoser: are we talking about the same? I dont have a nominate link on the bug page, and adding the +nominate to the url (hax!) gives me permission denied :)
[21:20] <SpamapS> as in, things that want randomness won't block
[21:20] <SpamapS> smoser: http://www.slideshare.net/astamos/cloud-computing-security suggests there is something like that in practice, on slide 66
[21:22] <jiboumans> oh and smoser, i've been meanign to ask, what's the clean way to re-run all of cloud-init after the machine has booted (for debugging/testing purposes)?
[21:22] <smoser> jiboumans, you're logged in ?
[21:22] <jiboumans> smoser: yes
[21:22] <smoser> i'll nominate then
[21:23] <jiboumans> thanks.. odd though
[21:23] <smoser> strange though i thought anyone could nominate
[21:23] <smoser> and only certain could accept
[21:23] <jiboumans> i logged out, nominate link /is/ there, i click it, asks for log in, and then i get permission denied
[21:23] <jiboumans> smoser: that's how i remember it too
[21:24] <smoser> SpamapS, i'mn  not sure if that file is "" or not
[21:25] <smoser> it doesn't matter
[21:25] <smoser> its the same really.
[21:25] <smoser> on reboot, you do get it.
[21:25] <smoser> and SpamapS https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14550/ is quite relevant
[21:25] <smoser> (although cloud-init doesn't use it yet)
[21:34] <jiboumans> smoser: thanks for the nomination.
[21:34] <jiboumans> oh and smoser, i've been meanign to ask, what's the clean way to re-run all of cloud-init after the machine has booted (for debugging/testing purposes)?
[21:35] <smoser> lusid is old... i'm not sure :)
[21:35] <smoser> but i usually do:
[21:35] <smoser> rm -Rf /var/lib/cloud-init && reboot
[21:35] <smoser> or somethign to that extent. its not purely idempotent, but not far off.
[21:36] <jiboumans> smoser: i particularly want to see what it's doing while it's doing it, without rebooting if possible
[21:36] <jiboumans> is there anyway?
[21:36] <smoser> ah. yeah.
[21:36] <smoser> just look in /etc/init and run the same stuff upstart would run
[21:36] <Debs> Hi! I'm a bit confused following a manual whilst setting up bind9 on an Ubuntu server. I'm creating the zone file and am wondering about this line -> '@       IN      SOA     ns.example.com. root.example.com. ('. The hostname of the server is rs-01.exp.com, do I put this where 'ns.example.com' is, or do I put ns.exp.com?
[21:36] <Debs> I'm setting up as a Master.
[21:36] <jiboumans> smoser: i'm taking the rm -rf is the key part there to have it re-run its steps right?
[21:41] <Debs> Any help?
[21:51] <Debs> Hi! I'm a bit confused following a manual whilst setting up bind9 on an Ubuntu server. I'm creating the zone file and am wondering about this line -> '@       IN      SOA     ns.example.com. root.example.com. ('. The hostname of the server is rs-01.exp.com, do I put this where 'ns.example.com' is, or do I put ns.exp.com?
[21:51] <Debs> I'm setting up as a Master.
[21:59] <RoyK> Debs: try #bind
[21:59] <Debs> I did, RoyK. It's dead in there :(
[22:00] <RoyK> perhaps people are sleeping
[22:03] <SpamapS> Debs: crazy thought: BIND is really antiquated.. unless you intend to become a DNS guru, there's no point in learning the ins and outs. I recommend using an online DNS service provider.
[22:04] <Debs> SpamapS: It's just a thing that I want to do, and then I'll probably never do it again.
[22:04] <Debs> SpamapS: I just can't figure out if I put ns.domain.com, or server1.domain.com there, for e.g
[22:04] <Debs> Both point to the same IP
[22:05] <SpamapS> Debs: ns.example.com should be the name of the server where you want people to check as "the ultimate authority" for the domain.
[22:06] <SpamapS> Debs: I'd do ns.domain.com .. but it actually doesn't matter
[22:06] <SpamapS> Debs: its mostly informational
[22:07] <SpamapS> Debs: http://www.zytrax.com/books/dns/ch8/soa.html
[22:07] <SpamapS> good explanation
[22:07] <Debs> SpamapS: Just on the Ubuntu docs, it says to put the FQDN of the server where ' ns.example.com. ' is in the example. The FQDN is rs-01.domain.com
[22:07] <Debs> ns.domain.com points to the same place as rs-01.domain.com though
[22:07] <Debs> So put ns., right?
[22:09] <SpamapS> Debs: as that link says, it really doesn't matter if you're not using DDNS (as its where writes go).
[22:10] <sarnold> heh, that field predates ddns by, what, two decades? :) Is it really that useless?
[22:12] <SpamapS> sarnold: useless? no, but matters to somebody who isn't running ddns and doesn't care about becoming a DNS guru, no.
[22:13] <SpamapS> Its basically only useful when you're wondering what the "primary master" is.
[22:13] <sarnold> aha
[22:13] <sarnold> thanks SpamapS :)
[22:13] <SpamapS> also if its a private domain, not in a whois server, is can be helpful
[23:40] <segv> heyo
[23:41] <segv> Hey guys quick question
[23:41] <segv> so with MaaS I keep getting tftp to connect, and i get the request from pserv (maas)
[23:41] <segv> just times out almost instantly though, any of you ever experience that?
[23:41] <segv> Got some cisco gear in between with trunked vlans over to a cage (that may be causing this)
[23:42] <bigjools> request from pserv?  pserv is the tftp server
[23:43] <bigjools> can you paste a relevant log part
[23:43] <segv> yeah
[23:44] <segv> https://gist.github.com/105c29324c42cc24f201
[23:45] <segv> if I tftp it from my client, I can get to it okay and pull the same file
[23:48] <segv> ~.


[05:23] <RAOF> LocutusOfBorg: You probably want "GL/glext.h"?
[08:25] <philroche> waveform: RE livecd-rootfs is consistently failing with "No space left on device". Mp for livecd-rootfs https://code.launchpad.net/~ikapelyukhin/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+merge/429913  has now been merged and new package published. I don't see any updates to https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/livecd-rootfs/kinetic/amd64 . Do you know if this fixes your uboot tests?
[09:14] <LocutusOfBorg> RAOF, is already included if not defined GL_GLEXT_LEGACY?
[09:18] <RAOF> 🤷♀
[09:19] <LocutusOfBorg> :)
[14:47] <oSoMoN> bdmurray, I spent some time looking into bug #1964036, where the firefox deb is being auto-removed upon upgrade from focal to jammy because the snap was installed. I'd swear I had tested this a while ago and the deb wasn't being removed, but I didn't keep notes, so I can't be 100% sure. Could it be a (relatively) recent regression in ubuntu-release-upgrader?
[15:27] <bdmurray> We (the QA team) are looking into the issues with the armhf autopkgtest queue not being consumed due to downed workers.
[15:36] <bdmurray> oSoMoN: It hasn't changed since March afaict https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-release-upgrader/log/DistUpgrade/deb2snap.json?h=ubuntu/jammy
[21:00] <sil2100> !dmb-ping
[21:01] <teward> really?  why isn't it on my schedule... *narrows eyes*
[21:01] <sarnold> there was a mention in #ubuntu-meetings about the time moving
[21:07] <teward> sarnold: perhaps but it looks like we're not quorate this meeting right now
[21:08] <ahasenack> ginggs: hi, I checked the freeradius s390x FTBFS in a VM, with kinetic-proposed enabled, and it passes. Should I upload a no-change rebuild anyway, or do nothing, or something else?
[21:09] <utkarsh2102> teward: we're quorate, aren't we? there's 4 of us now
[21:09] <teward> well NOW we are :P
[21:12] <ahasenack> ginggs: maybe you can retry it manually in your rebuild ppa?


[01:25] <xivulon> cjwatson partman autoloop fails to mount /host when an iso is used
[10:03] <cjwatson> sigh, xivulon, that was what I already told you
[01:09] <tepsipakki> does the "pending Cell support" allow native installation on PS3?
[01:15] <cjwatson> we had that in feisty ...
[01:15] <cjwatson> it expands it to some more machines
[01:17] <cjwatson> well, when I say feisty I mean with a few extra bug-fixes; see http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20070608-feisty-ps3/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20070614-xubuntu-feisty-ps3/
[01:17] <tepsipakki> oh, ok.. I don't own one yet, but every installation doc I've encountered mentions that fedora needs to be installed first
[01:17] <cjwatson> it doesn't
[01:17] <tepsipakki> but maybe they were outdated
[01:17] <tepsipakki> right
[01:17] <cjwatson> my PS3 has never had Fedora on it
[01:18] <tepsipakki> heh, I take your word for it :)
[01:19] <xivulon> cjwatson could you pls have a quick look at the patches I sent this morning and in case merge them?
[01:19] <cjwatson> xivulon: I will do, just doing other things first
[01:19] <xivulon> sure
[02:35] <cjwatson> xivulon: if the find_iso mount needs to be visible to partman-auto-loop, I'm leaning towards reinstating the change to just call it /host
[02:35] <cjwatson> I like keeping the number of top-level names as small as I can
[02:42] <xivulon> cjwatson the issue is that if you have the ISO on /host and target the same device (which is by far the most common case), that is fine
[02:44] <xivulon> but... if you have the ISO on /host and target another device, autopartition loop will try to mount that other device as /host (if memory does not fail me)
[02:46] <xivulon> I would suggest to rename /isodevice -> host and IIF autopartion loop likes to use /host change that instead (since that top level folder is only used during installation)
[02:47] <xivulon> yep
[02:47] <cjwatson> oh, hmm, I see
[02:48] <xivulon> #189 mount -o move /target /host
[02:48] <cjwatson> no in that case I think I prefer /iso or /isodevice for the ISO
[02:48] <xivulon> ok
[02:48] <cjwatson> because /host is what we end up using on the installed system for the same purpose as /host during installation
[02:48] <cjwatson> so it should have the same name
[02:49] <xivulon> makes sense
[02:49] <cjwatson> I'm not sure about pushing this in for beta mind you
[02:50] <xivulon> I was thinking the same thing
[02:50] <cjwatson> don't get me wrong, it seems correct, but I'm trying to use my release team points sparingly for things that are critical :)
[02:50] <xivulon> But on the other side we had very little testing on wubi/lupin...
[02:51] <cjwatson> I know, and I'm desperate to get it tested, but at this point I think we only have time to test the CD case
[02:52] <xivulon> I'd still put the partman auto loop stuff in, since it will have no effect on a normal installation
[02:53] <xivulon> And can have people test using the ISO + the downloaded wubi.exe
[02:54] <xivulon> Same goes for lupin of course
[02:55] <xivulon> Lupin patches should be included, since they should have no impact on a normal installation (and if they do, you do want to know now)
[02:55] <cjwatson> "should have no impact" is the sort of phrase that automatically strikes terror into release managers
[02:56] <xivulon> What I mean is that if they do have an impact, that is a bug, and it should be discovered now
[02:57] <cjwatson> erm
[02:57] <cjwatson> I see where you're coming from, but wubi needs to work in the default case by beta; that is the highest priority
[02:57] <cjwatson> the possibility of introducing bugs that might need us to respin is very very bad
[02:58] <cjwatson> because it either means delaying the Ubuntu beta or removing wubi from it
[02:58] <cjwatson> we will have time after beta to fix this sort of thing
[02:58] <cjwatson> but if wubi isn't in place and working by beta, it isn't going to be in the final release
[02:58] <xivulon> Let me rephrase, partman auto-loop and lupin do work as far as I can tell in the default case (when there is no wubi.exe)
[02:59] <cjwatson> right, that's great and that's enough for beta
[02:59] <cjwatson> we can land these fixes immediately afterwards
[03:01] <cjwatson> I'm already getting away with a lot by getting it into place this late, and I can't stretch much further
[03:01] <cjwatson> (and I realise that was my fault at least as much as anyone else's)
[03:01] <xivulon> cjwatson, I understand, don't worry
[03:02] <cjwatson> in particular I'm not confident of the partman-auto-loop changes
[03:02] <cjwatson> what you sent is definitely wrong because it will break any preseeding that involves more than one partition
[03:02] <xivulon> They have not been tested to date
[03:02] <cjwatson> so I think it deserves some care
[03:04] <cjwatson> plus, it's not really the same device
[03:04] <cjwatson> actually, no, ignore that bit
[03:04] <xivulon> I do not think that multiple partitions with loopinstallations is much of an issue
[03:04] <cjwatson> sorry, I'm confused, your change should be fine
[03:05] <cjwatson> I meant like multiple .disk files
[03:05] <cjwatson> but it's not an issue here
[03:05] <cjwatson> still, anything that makes my head hurt this much I don't want to ram through for beta :)
[03:06] <xivulon> what is a realistic plan?
[03:07] <cjwatson> xivulon: we go with CD-only for beta and land the changes immediately after beta
[03:07] <cjwatson> there is a period between beta and release when we go back to "merely" feature freeze
[03:07] <cjwatson> and that's a reasonable time to land this sort of thing
[03:07] <xivulon> doesn't that mean that wubi should not be in the final?
[03:08] <cjwatson> but right now, we're in beta freeze, and the only fixes we can make are those which are critical to the beta
[03:08] <cjwatson> xivulon: I don't see why, if it works in the must-have-a-CD-in-the-drive mode for beta
[03:09] <xivulon> You mean we only enable the CD-only mode
[03:09] <cjwatson> right
[03:09] <xivulon> So we only have wubi
[03:09] <cjwatson> blink?
[03:09] <cjwatson> oh, I'm not religious about ripping it out, we can release-note that something doesn't work
[03:09] <cjwatson> that's ok
[03:10] <cjwatson> let me reiterate
[03:10] <cjwatson> we have six days
[03:10] <cjwatson> there will be bugs left at the end
[03:10] <xivulon> cjwatson I do not mind whatever you decide.
[03:10] <cjwatson> the key is to get the most important paths tested and working
[03:11] <xivulon> I am only need a bit of planning, for instance if there is no loopinstallation support, I'll have to resume the dynamic patching mechanism in the standalone version
[03:11] <cjwatson> so with my archive and release hat on I'm working to get the unionfs fixes through
[03:11] <xivulon> which means I have to ship my own initrd and so on...
[03:11] <cjwatson> with my cdimage hat on I'll be running round rebuilding images this afternoon
[03:11] <cjwatson> can you not live with needing a daily build slightly after beta?
[03:12] <cjwatson> I mean it's not like the images have worked for a while ...
[03:13] <xivulon> I think more in terms of the final, beta or not is not a big issue at all.
[03:14] <cjwatson> or are you going to have users beating down your door asking why wubi-installer.org doesn't support 7.10 beta?
[03:14] <xivulon> No that's not an issue
[03:14] <xivulon> I can have the wubi.exe point at a daily build instead of the beta
[03:14] <xivulon> That is what it does now
[03:15] <xivulon> The issue is that if there is no loppinstallation support in the final ISO, I will not be able to point them anywhere else
[03:16] <xivulon> And I will have to maintain my own initrd again wich patches the ISO on the fly.
[03:18] <cjwatson> ok, I'm keen to avoid you doing that
[03:19] <cjwatson> and I don't think it will be necessary
[03:19] <cjwatson> the lupin patch is in bzr, and the partman-auto-loop patch is in place in my local tree now pending me thinking about it a bit more
[03:19] <cjwatson> it should all be ready for right after beta
[03:20] <xivulon> another minor issue was that ubiquity seemed to ignore atomatic-ubiquity flag and I just landed on the desktop (did not check whether xinit-ubiquity was in place)
[03:22] <xivulon> cjwatson, it would be good if the initrd could support some external hooks "pre_mount=/path/to/premount.sh" and "post_mount=/path/to/postmount.sh"
[03:24] <xivulon> But I guess it's late for that too
[03:41] <cjwatson> automatic-ubiquity should be fixed finally in 1.5.16
[03:41] <cjwatson> taken a few goes, that
[03:41] <cjwatson> talk to me about hooks after beta :)
[03:42] <xivulon> thanks
[03:43] <xivulon> the hooks are an emergency thing so that if I can override a few initrd/iso files without having to ship a whoule new thing
[03:43] <cjwatson> nod
[03:43] <cjwatson> somebody else asked for that too I think - will try to come up with something generic
[03:45] <xivulon> cjwatson, do you think you can push out an ISO build with all the patches?
[03:45] <xivulon> I will be travelling this w/e and will not have much time (and probably zero connectivity), having an ISO to play with might help
[03:47] <xivulon> By the way, lupin-casper already provides external hooks... ;P
[03:52] <cjwatson> you mean all the other patches up to now, or the post-beta ones?
[03:53] <cjwatson> I can't do post-beta stuff yet, but we'll be building new CDs today as soon as all the necessary stuff is in the archive
[03:53] <xivulon> cjwatson, I mean that current lupin version supports importing early_command.sh and late_command.sh
[03:53] <cjwatson> 14:45 <xivulon> cjwatson, do you think you can push out an ISO build with all the patches?
[03:53] <cjwatson> I was replying to that
[03:54] <xivulon> re ISO build, yes I mean post beta stuff, with any patch that might be relevant to lupin/wubi (including automatic-ubiquity)
[03:55] <xivulon> re Lupin, now that I think of it, Lupin can support early_command.sh. That is enough to override the ISO.
[03:55] <xivulon> So even if you decide not to push in partman-autoloop, I can add it later on, provided lupin is available in the ISO
[03:56] <cjwatson> lupin will be there
[03:57] <cjwatson> automatic-ubiquity should work, but still needs testing
[03:57] <xivulon> Even in the beta?
[03:57] <cjwatson> same way it is in current daily builds ...
[03:57] <cjwatson> the lupin patches we've been talking about today, unlikely
[03:57] <cjwatson> but lupin in general, sure
[04:24] <xivulon> cjwatson, to simplify testing in the coming days, I'd like you to reconsider having the latest lupin patches (with that I can patch partman on the fly, but changing the initrd is not as convenient), also it would be good to have all other "post-beta" patches in one place
[04:26] <xivulon> Ideally the patches should be as an override folder that can simply be extracted on top of the mounted ISO by early_command
[04:26] <xivulon> Would something like that be feasible?
[04:28] <cjwatson> xivulon: you already have early_command so there is nothing to do there, as far as I know
[04:29] <cjwatson> ok, *sigh*, I'll see if I can push through the /isodevice move-mounting stuff
[04:29] <xivulon> Thanks, without that, I'd need to push out a separate initrd
[04:32] <xivulon> As for the post-beta folder, that has not to be anything formal, just a folder where you dump files and packages that did not make the ISO, which probably means partman-auto-loop and automatic-ubiquity.
[04:34] <xivulon> That ultimately might reduce your workload since you'd have to worry about a single ISO, and it would speed and simplify lupin/wubi testing, since we could easily apply changes on the fly and do not have to wait for special ISOs
[04:36] <cjwatson> no, I don't want to do that sorry
[04:36] <cjwatson> we'll just do updated builds
[04:36] <cjwatson> early_command hooks can of course create whatever they want themselves
[04:37] <xivulon> I think we are saying the same thing.
[04:38] <xivulon> You just do official builds, simply let me know what relevant lupin packages you left out
[04:38] <cjwatson> I can certainly mention fixes
[04:38] <xivulon> I'll take care of the override folder
[04:43] <cjwatson> lupin uploading with the /isodevice changes
[05:16] <xivulon> nice
[05:28] <xivulon> When will the ISO with that be ready?
[05:29] <cjwatson> publisher + publisher + CD build + random slack for shit that goes wrong
[05:29] <cjwatson> oh and include live filesystem build
[05:30] <cjwatson> + time for Soyuz to wake up and schedule builds + binary build time
[05:30] <cjwatson> no less than 2.5 hours, probably a bit more
[05:30] <xivulon> That's more than good enough, I am leaving tomorrow morning so I can download tonight
[05:32] <xivulon> Can you also put somewhere your local patched version of partman autoloop and auto ubiquity?
[05:32] <cjwatson> like I said, automatic-ubiquity should work in the next build, as far as I know
[05:33] <xivulon> missed that bit, great -1
[05:33] <cjwatson> I'll give you the codebrowse link for partman-auto-loop once I've committed it and you can use that
[05:34] <xivulon> Anything else I'd need you can think of? lupin-support is on the ISO?
[05:34] <cjwatson> yeah
[05:35] <cjwatson> I'm off for a while, since the publisher is churning on manual and CDs will build after that; evand has my phone number if the universe is collapsing
[05:35] <xivulon> Thanks a lot for everything, and sorry for the trouble
[05:35] <cjwatson> it's ok
[05:35] <cjwatson> I hope this build will work :)
[05:35] <xivulon> me too
[05:43] <xivulon> By the way, in anyone wants to try wubi/lupin, to go around current issues, burn a CD, start wubi normally and select 4GB installation, before rebooting edit /ubuntu/install/grub/menu.lst and remove find_iso=XYZ
[05:45] <xivulon> Do not boot with the CD inserted, pop it in when requested
[05:46] <xivulon> This will force use a physical CD instead of an ISO on HD which at the moments creates problems. Haven't tried that personally but in theory you should be able to go through the loopinstallation.
[08:52] <evand> bug #1: no mouse when starting straight into ubiquity
[09:17] <xivulon> cjwatson, do you have updated partman-auto-loop sources?
[09:20] <cjwatson> no
[09:20] <cjwatson> evand: blink
[09:21] <xivulon> you mentioned you patched your local branch could you pls email me autopartition-loop?
[09:22] <evand> cjwatson: yeah, not sure what's causing it yet.  Trying to get it running in automatic mode first.
[09:22] <cjwatson> xivulon: please, when I am confident in it I'll check it in and e-mail it to you
[09:23] <cjwatson> I don't want to mail about half-broken copies and waste your time
[09:23] <xivulon> cjwatson, it's only because I'll be away this w/e and I am not sure about network connectivity, so I could at least work on something
[09:23] <xivulon> does not matter if it's half done, better that today that something on monday
[09:24] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/autopartition-loop but if it's broken I warned you :P
[09:24] <cjwatson> er, in a moment, scp hasn't finished
[09:24] <xivulon> great
[09:25] <cjwatson> it's there now
[09:25] <evand> speaking of broken autopartition-loop ;)
[09:26] <cjwatson> evand: what broke?
[09:26] <evand> it's sitting there.  It doesn't seem to like me stracing it either.
[09:26] <evand> but that's probably an error on my part
[09:26] <xivulon> are you testing with loopinstallation?
[09:27] <xivulon> check if /host is mounted
[09:27] <evand> xivulon: it is mounted
[09:27] <evand>  /host/ubuntu/disks/root.disk
[09:27] <xivulon> what I mean, is /host on a device or is sitting inside of the ramdisk?
[09:28] <xivulon> do you see it in /proc/mounts
[09:28] <evand> ah, it's on /
[09:28] <xivulon> then it's blocking because you are out of ram probably
[09:28] <cjwatson> right, question is why it didn't get mounted
[09:28] <evand> you're good :)
[09:28] <cjwatson> did wubi sit for ages downloading an iso?
[09:28] <xivulon> That is the patch I submitted
[09:29] <xivulon> it's not mounted because the target partition is the one hosting the ISO
[09:29] <xivulon> which means that the target partition is already mounted
[09:29] <cjwatson> xivulon: not so much, it's a bug if it gets that far
[09:29] <xivulon> which means that mount.d/70basic fails
[09:29] <evand> yeah, I'm using the old wubi.exe.  I'll update.
[09:29] <cjwatson> it shouldn't be using an ISO, it should be using the CD
[09:29] <evand> sorry for the false alarm
[09:29] <cjwatson> ah, that would be it
[09:30] <cjwatson> xivulon: no, mount.d/70basic failed for an entirely different reason which I fixed
[09:30] <cjwatson> nothing to do with the ISO being on the target partition
[09:30] <evand> though, I did find one more bug
[09:30] <evand> we need to set UBIQUITY_AUTOMATIC in environ
[09:30] <cjwatson> I thought ubiquity did that itself
[09:30] <cjwatson> if you pass --automatic
[09:31] <evand> it does
[09:31] <evand> but we're not passing --automatic in ubiquity-dm, are we?
[09:31] <cjwatson> oh, but we don't call it with --automatic
[09:31] <cjwatson> I wonder why not
[09:31] <cjwatson> I think that's a bug
[09:32] <xivulon> evand, I did not understand if you are using an ISO or the CD
[09:32] <cjwatson> evand: what does it break?
[09:32] <cjwatson> because I saw the "checking installation" progress bar when I tried it
[09:32] <cjwatson> which made me assume that it was in automatic mode
[09:32] <evand> oh, hrm
[09:32] <evand> that does mean it's in automatic mode
[09:32] <cjwatson> oh, except maybe I was running ubiquity by hand
[09:32] <cjwatson> you might want to ignore me
[09:33] <evand> xivulon: I was using an iso, I'm going to grab the latest wubi now to fix that.
[09:33] <cjwatson> I'll upload a fix tonight
[09:33] <CIA-18> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2250 ubiquity/debian/ (changelog init):
[09:33] <CIA-18> ubiquity: * Use the --automatic option when running ubiquity from the init script
[09:33] <CIA-18> ubiquity:  (thanks, Evan Dandrea).
[09:33] <xivulon> cjwatson, is it now possible to target the partition hosting the ISOs now?
[09:34] <cjwatson> xivulon: if booting from the CD
[09:34] <xivulon> which means no
[09:34] <cjwatson> correct
[09:34] <evand> thanks cjwatson
[09:34] <xivulon> So evand you can run Wubi and pick 4GB
[09:34] <xivulon> Then before rebooting edit install/boot/grub/menu.lst
[09:34] <xivulon> and remove find_iso=*
[09:35] <xivulon> That will be identical to a real wubi loopinstallation except that the CD will be used
[09:35] <xivulon> Reboot without the CD and only insert that when requested to do so
[09:36] <evand> xivulon: ok, thanks
[09:36] <xivulon> cjwatson, out of curiosity what was the mount.d bug you referred to?
[09:36] <cjwatson> xivulon: partman-auto-loop wasn't reading all the output from fstab.d scripts
[09:37] <cjwatson> so it started a second one before the first one had finished, and they fought
[09:37] <xivulon> ah
[09:37] <cjwatson> oh, hmm, sorry, I was confusing fstab.d and mount.d; you were right about mount.d/70basic
[09:37] <cjwatson> sorry, I have a lot of things going on at once and this is only one of them :-/
[09:38] <xivulon> I am always right 8)
[09:38] <xivulon> brb
[09:38] <evand> cjwatson: not to add something else to the pile, but did you notice that jdong is still experiencing unionfs issues?
[09:38] <CIA-18> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2251 ubiquity/ (configure configure.ac): bump to 1.5.17
[09:38] <evand> he's updating the original bug report with his logs, so I imagine pkl will see that.
[09:40] <cjwatson> evand: yeah, I didn't notice them in my own tests so it isn't universal, but do explicitly mention it to pkl in case he can make something of it
[09:40] <evand> will do
[09:40] <evand> I didn't notice it either, fwiw
[09:41] <cjwatson> don't rely on bug mail, he's on the kernel team so probably gets stacks of it
[09:41] <evand> well, his name was also mentioned with it a few times in #ubuntu-devel, but I'll msg him directly
[09:43] <cjwatson> I'd mention it in the private #kernel
[09:43] <cjwatson> less noise
[09:43] <evand> ...I swear, windows updates occur more often than gutsy updates
[09:45] <xivulon> back
[09:48] <xivulon> what are the default boot parameters of "safe graphic mode"?
[09:54] <cjwatson> xivulon: this thing is still trying to download an ISO
[09:54] <cjwatson> today's build
[09:55] <evand> odd, not here unless it did it quite quickly
[09:55] <cjwatson> I can't afford to download the ISO every time, the last test took hours
[09:56] <cjwatson> it says it's rev 291
[09:56] <cjwatson> xivulon: safe graphics mode adds the 'xforcevesa' parameter
[09:57] <cjwatson> xivulon: is there anything I can do to help you debug why this can't seem to detect the CD?
[09:57] <evand> cjwatson: yeah, same here.  Odd.
[09:57] <cjwatson> I was booting without network connectivity (more or less by chance, I'd carried the laptop downstairs so I could make coffee and watch it) and of course it got stuck
[09:58] <evand> hrm, I'll give it another try with networking disabled as soon as I see if it gets any further on the ubuntu end this time.
[09:58] <xivulon> I am having a look
[09:59] <xivulon> if you want to debug launch wubi --debug
[09:59] <cjwatson> yep, if it's connected to a network it starts downloading
[09:59] <cjwatson> ok
[09:59] <xivulon> you should see lots of message bogs
[09:59] <xivulon> it will look for the CD twice
[09:59] <xivulon> at the beginning
[09:59] <xivulon> and after you click install
[09:59] <xivulon> if it fails to detect it it will give you an explanation
[10:01] <cjwatson> says 'isvalid Ubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy Gibbon" - Alpha i386 (20070921.1)' 'cdinfo=Ubuntu 7.10 "Gutsy Gibbon" - Alpha i386 (20070921.1) cdversion=7.10 cddistro=Ubuntu cdarch=i386 cdcodename=Gutsy Gibbon cdsubversion=Alpha'
[10:01] <cjwatson> (continuing)
[10:01] <cjwatson> 'success Ubuntu 7.10 <blah>'
[10:01] <cjwatson> 'cddrive=E:\'
[10:01] <cjwatson> and then pops up setup
[10:02] <cjwatson> wish I could c&p this
[10:02] <cjwatson> ah, makeimg fails
[10:02] <cjwatson> Using device \\.\E:
[10:02] <cjwatson> Error: The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
[10:03] <cjwatson> the thing it's trying to run is ...\makeimg.exe -o C:\ubuntu\install\gutsy-desktop-i386.iso -i E:
[10:03] <xivulon> is the sleep 3000 in there?
[10:03] <cjwatson> didn't see any sleep 3000
[10:03] <cjwatson> but I didn't look at the code
[10:03] <cjwatson> it's rev 291
[10:03] <xivulon> checking
[10:03] <cjwatson> why does it need to copy the .iso to the hard disk?
[10:04] <xivulon> If you use read-only mode or loopinstallation, so that the CD can be ejected and we can avoid booting from CD
[10:04] <cjwatson> I wasn't though, I'd selected 7 GB
[10:04] <cjwatson> (the default here)
[10:05] <xivulon> yeah that is loopinstallation
[10:05] <cjwatson> oh
[10:05] <xivulon> the size is calculated based on free disk space
[10:05] <cjwatson> perhaps we could just skip that for now and document the awkwardness, then?
[10:05] <cjwatson> unless you have a good idea on how to fix this
[10:06] <xivulon> sleep 3000 is there it was sufficient in my case, but I was using CD emulator
[10:06] <cjwatson> what's the other process using the CD, do you think?
[10:07] <xivulon> The only time we use the CD is to read .disk/info
[10:07] <cjwatson> I have Explorer open ...
[10:07] <cjwatson> could it be that?
[10:07] <xivulon> possibly
[10:08] <evand> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/FileAndDisk/Filemon.mspx ?
[10:08] <cjwatson> nope, closing Explorer didn't help
[10:09] <xivulon> Let me try to do a buidl with sleep 10000
[10:09] <xivulon> make it 30000
[10:09] <cjwatson> well, what is it that's accessing the disk?
[10:09] <cjwatson> if it's wubi itself, then I don't see how sleep would help
[10:09] <cjwatson> that should all be synchronous, surely
[10:09] <xivulon> hmm it did help in my case
[10:10] <cjwatson> are you certain that you're properly closing the CD device?
[10:10] <xivulon> I am only using the default readfile command
[10:10] <xivulon> will check if there is a second command to use close cleanly
[10:10] <evand> mouse works again, false alarm there
[10:11] <xivulon> cjwatson, instead of me increasing the sleep time, simply use a --debug, and leave the last message open for 30 secs
[10:11] <xivulon> alternative workaround is to download the ISO and place it in the same folder where wubi.exe is
[10:12] <xivulon> The ISO has to be called gutsy-desktop-i386.iso
[10:12] <cjwatson> which last message should I leave open?
[10:12] <cjwatson> I'm running out of time, my wife wants me downstairs for DVD watching
[10:14] <xivulon> The one before "makeimg" do not remember which one it is
[10:14] <xivulon> Hmm I do call FileClose (wubi/inspector/detect_iso.nsh #113) and I cannot think of any other time when I use the CD
[10:15] <cjwatson> wubi itself is running from the CD
[10:15] <cjwatson> wouldn't that be enough to lock it?
[10:15] <xivulon> ah that's more likely
[10:16] <xivulon> can you try running off hd?
[10:16] <cjwatson> yeah
[10:17] <cjwatson> it's sitting at "Retrieving installation files" ...
[10:18] <xivulon> it takes a few secs
[10:18] <xivulon> it has to copy the full CD
[10:18] <cjwatson> oh, of course
[10:18] <xivulon> we will have a proper progress bar
[10:18] <cjwatson> ok
[10:18] <cjwatson> this doesn't sound workable if wubi can't copy the CD because it's locked though
[10:19] <cjwatson> the standard mode of operation will be to run wubi from the CD
[10:19] <xivulon> I was thinking of a workaround
[10:19] <cjwatson> we may have to come up with a different option
[10:19] <evand> copy the executable to the drive then run it from there, in code?
[10:19] <cjwatson> anyway, I really have to run for a bit, back later
[10:19] <xivulon> for instance wrapping wubi in a 7z selfextracting file
[10:19] <xivulon> so when you run wubi it first extracts to some tmp folder and then runs it
[10:19] <cjwatson> evand: I'd rather have wubi get the system to boot from the hard disk next time, bypassing the CD
[10:20] <cjwatson> same way instlux can get the system to boot from the CD next time
[10:20] <cjwatson> or perhaps leave a note somewhere on the disk that causes gfxboot to go straight to booting from the hard disk
[10:20] <cjwatson> that sounds doable
[10:20] <cjwatson> ok, wubi completed, I'll try the rest later :)
[10:20] <cjwatson> thanks
[10:20] <xivulon> good
[10:20] <xivulon> next time it will be quicker since it will reuse the ISO
[10:21] <evand> ok
[10:22] <xivulon> cjwatson, just try to set the bios to start from HD, then select Use CD in wubi and see if it works well for booting
[10:27] <xivulon> We will have a look to see if the requirement of the CD not being in use can be loosened up
[10:28] <xivulon> instlux and debian installer by the way work the same way as wubi when it comes to booting: grub4dos + local kernel/initrd
[10:56] <superm1> cjwatson, could you point me at what's involved with making a mythbuntu task?
[10:56] <superm1> i saw how ubuntu studio's show up in synaptic now
[10:59] <superm1> is it just a matter of adding the task to the top of the seed file in bzr and poking someone?
[11:57] <cjwatson> nope, partman-auto-loop still hosed
[11:57] <cjwatson> I know why though, it's using move-mount syntax that busybox likes but util-linux doesn't
[11:57] <cjwatson> I'll hack around it
[12:01] <evand> I can't even get that far.  No matter what I do, I can't seem to get the host system mounted at startup.
[12:03] <cjwatson> it's not supposed to be mounted when you boot the live filesystem
[12:03] <cjwatson> partman-auto-loop deals with mounting it, at least when booting from CD
[12:04] <evand> at least it's broken anyway :)


[01:15] <fta> jcastro, another crasher: compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::StaticCairoText::UpdateTexture()
[08:26] <viraldiego> Hi folks, I'm using debs from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily, which still have the version as 4.0b13pre. This is causing a bit of confusion (see https://github.com/kazu-yamamoto/Firemacs/pull/7), does anyone here know whether these builds will come with a version >= 4.0 anytime soon? Or should I switch to the ppa at http://is.gd/f6TM4? Cheers.
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> viraldiego, whenever the version on mozilla-central changes
[08:52] <viraldiego> Ok thanks, so I'm guessing that'd be around the time of the final 4.0 release is that correct?
[08:57] <magcius> chrisccoulson, didn't it already switch to an RC?
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> magcius, no, that was done on the mozilla-2.0 branch
[08:58] <magcius> chrisccoulson, ah.
[08:58] <magcius> chrisccoulson, I assume that's stable, whereas -central is still dev?
[08:58]  * magcius would have figured that -central would have version bumped after RC.
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> magcius, yeah. we're going to rename the firefox-4.0 packages in the PPA to firefox-trunk, and that will make it clear that they are always coming from mozilla-central
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> (and will avoid having to rename them every few weeks too)
[09:00] <magcius> chrisccoulson, why not 'mozilla-cenrtal'?
[09:00] <magcius> er, central
[09:00] <magcius> oh wait, firefox != xulrunner
[09:00]  * magcius is always annoyed at that
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> maybe, but that's a bit of a long name
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> firefox-mozilla-central ;)
[09:01] <magcius> firefox-hg ?
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that could mean any of the 4 branches in http://people.mozilla.com/~sayrer/2011/temp/process.html then
[09:02] <magcius> I saw that article.
[09:02] <viraldiego> chrisccoulson, noticed the 3.6 packages from that ppa still have the "pre" suffix, does that mean the 4.0 packages will also keep the "pre" suffix forever?
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun keeping up with that
[09:03] <magcius> Are 'release channels' being managed in terms of hg branches?
[09:03] <magcius> hg branches are terrible.
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> viraldiego, in the daily PPA, yes.
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> magcius, i assume so
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> they would need to be, to be able to merge changes in from fx-beta
[09:05] <viraldiego> chrisccoulson, am I right to assume then that that daily ppa, will never come with a version number > 4.0 (because 4.0b | 4.0pre < 4.0)?
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> viraldiego, it will have whatever is in mozilla-central
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> so it will become 5.0~ something soon
[09:13] <viraldiego> chrisccoulson, thanks for your help I'll check mozilla-central and ask in the firefox mailing lists
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> viraldiego, what exactly are you trying to find out?
[09:16] <viraldiego> chrisccoulson, there's an addon that uses an appversion flag in the chrome.manifest and it's set to "appversion > 4", which doesn't work on my version (4.0b13pre)
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> no, it won't
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> but, what do you want to ask?
[09:17] <viraldiego> The maintainer of that addon was asking me why I sent him a pull request if firefox rc1 already comes with version 4.0
[09:17] <viraldiego> So I was just wondering whether it was worth him pulling my change or not, if the nightly builds are going to stay as 4.0pre for a while then it's probably worth it
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> no, it's not worth it
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> it will change soon
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> anyway, i have to disappear now
[09:18] <viraldiego> Alright, that's good to know, cheers
[18:56] <BUGabundo> hey! I'm back!!  :D
[20:48] <BUGabundo> [reed]: ping
[20:49] <BUGabundo> [reed]: I opened FF 3.6, updated a few addons, restarted the browser, and now its stuck in a state where it asks to restart FF to finish updates :\
[20:49] <[reed]> BUGabundo: pong
[20:50] <[reed]> BUGabundo: in your firefox profile directory, what files do you have that start with "extensions."
[20:51] <BUGabundo> ~/.mozilla/firefox/3.6SSD$ ls extensions* | pastebinit
[20:51] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/582642/
[20:51] <BUGabundo> [reed]: ^^^^^
[20:52] <BUGabundo> I also get a pop up on startup about lang packs updates
[20:52] <BUGabundo> canceling the updates on the addons individually seems to enable them back on the next startup
[20:52] <[reed]> BUGabundo: delete extensions.cache, extensions.ini and extensions.rdf
[20:52]  * BUGabundo is scared
[20:52] <[reed]> (while firefox is shutdown)
[20:52] <[reed]> and start it back up
[20:53] <[reed]> (you can save them)
[20:53]  * BUGabundo moves
[20:53] <[reed]> backups, ftw
[20:53] <BUGabundo> I have a btrfs snapshot of last week
[20:53] <BUGabundo> before I went to lisbon on work/vacations :P
[20:53] <BUGabundo> just booted the machine
[20:53] <BUGabundo> so backup is fresh :)
[20:55] <BUGabundo> [reed]: no fix. addons still show it requires it to restart
[20:56] <[reed]> why are you using 3.6 anyway?
[20:56] <[reed]> :p
[20:56] <BUGabundo> meh.... I *was* going to start a new FF4 profile this week
[20:56] <BUGabundo> I was on 3.6 because some of my critical addons weren't upgraded yet
[20:56] <BUGabundo> but I think most of them already are
[20:56] <BUGabundo> still, don't want to be left with a non working profile
[20:57] <BUGabundo> it *should* work
[20:59] <[reed]> yeah
[20:59] <[reed]> not sure
[20:59] <[reed]> file a bug? find Mossop on IRC?
[20:59] <[reed]> :)
[21:01] <BUGabundo> oh well
[21:02] <BUGabundo> better remove the HOLD on FF, upgrade to 4, create new profiles and install all my addons fresh
[21:02] <BUGabundo> wish me luck
[21:10] <BUGabundo> humm
[21:10] <BUGabundo> so I now can have both FF4 from natty and FF4-trunk from daily PPA?
[21:11] <BUGabundo> are those two diff profiles?
[21:11] <BUGabundo> [reed]: fta: ^^^^^^
[21:11] <fta> no idea
[21:11] <BUGabundo> or should daily ppa natty rename the package from firefox-4.0 to firefox ?
[21:12] <fta> i'm no longer involved in those
[21:12] <BUGabundo> yeah I know
[21:12] <BUGabundo> but u know the daily PPAs better then anyone else
[21:26]  * BUGabundo starts a new FF4 profile and changes *all* mouse click options to the oposite
[21:26] <BUGabundo> [reed]: do you guys really like the mouse click defaults?
[21:26] <BUGabundo> why can't I double click to select a partial url?
[21:27] <[reed]> gnome HID stuff or some such, iirc?
[21:27] <[reed]> I dunno
[21:27] <[reed]> you can change it
[21:27] <[reed]> it's a config setting
[21:28] <BUGabundo> I know
[21:28] <BUGabundo> I just did
[21:28] <BUGabundo> *all* of them
[21:28] <BUGabundo> its like they are all the oposite of what I want
[21:28] <BUGabundo> :\
[21:55] <BUGabundo> [reed]: how do we contact devs to upgrade their addons ? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/long-url-please/
[21:56] <[reed]> Need help with this add-on?
[21:56] <[reed]>     E-mail your question
[21:56] <[reed]> e-mail the guy ;)
[21:57] <BUGabundo> ok
[21:59] <BUGabundo> sent
[22:10] <fta> [reed], still a bugzilla dev?


[00:13] <frozen-ember> heya all
[00:14] <frozen-ember> just grabbed this distro a bit back, happy to have jack ootb.  its a pita in other places.  couple curious questions to follow.
[00:15] <frozen-ember> i am grabbing an akai usb mpk mini midi keyboard, curious how the studio and jack are with usb midi devices, and also curious if i should be able to set up a tiler from the repos, havent looked into it yet and curious if others have found the window clutter painful
[00:16] <frozen-ember> further since this is on an old gaming laptop, any chance i can use the nvidia cuda cores to help render audio etc?
[15:07] <inviolato> Salve
[15:09] <inviolato> Caratteristiche di ubuntu studio ???
[16:27] <loranozor[m]> hi everyone. Just trying ubuntu studio after years of ubuntu. Is there any way to adjust screen brightness? I used some extensions from  https://extensions.gnome.org/ for that but it seams not working on studio...
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> loranozor: GNOME extensions do not work on Ubuntu Studio. It uses a completely different desktop environment (Xfce for 20.04 LTS and prior, KDE Plasma for 20.10 and later). Your brightness buttons should just work. If not, I suggest asking on askubuntu.com since your issue might not be specific to Studio.
[19:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> You might also ask in #freenode_#ubuntu:matrix.org
[21:31] <inviolato> salve a tutti
[21:33] <inviolato> qualcuno che puo' darmi consigli su ubuntu studio ?
[21:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> !it | inviolato


[19:16] <pleia2> need to disable memberships to ~ubuntu-california temporarily, spammers are using it as a back door for spamming wiki.ubuntu.com
[19:16] <pleia2> 12:13:54 < pleia2> popey: I think we should disable the approved locos as members of the pad
[19:16] <pleia2> 12:14:11 < pleia2> making our team closed makes me very uncomfortable (it's unwelcoming, we don't have criteria for inclusion, etc
[19:24] <pleia2> ianorlyn, nhaines - so be aware, and don't auto-approve new members :)
[19:27] <MarkDude> pleia2: you have to do what you have to do. The group needs to be protected, and you are doing so :)
[19:28] <MarkDude> Hopefully a solution comes to light, but erring on the side of saving folks hassles is the right way to go, IMO
[19:29] <pleia2> the only thing we use the team for is collaborating on the team flyers and cd sleeves, so I'm not too worried that people are being disrupted by a temporary pause in membership :)
[19:32] <MarkDude> Yep, but your inner Penguin defaults to open, the Force is strong with this one :D
[19:33] <pleia2> indeed, we'll re-open as soon as possible :)
[21:28] <nhaines> pleia2: the recent uptick in join requests to ~locoteams-verified makes more sense now.  Although I'm pretty sure most of them are legitimately invalid requests.
[21:32] <nhaines> As far as ~ubuntu-california,  very prominently on record that ~ubuntu-california should be moderated or delgated and basically no one should be a member and we shouldn't use it for anything except translations and code hosting, neither of which apply to us.  :)
[21:34] <lynorian> wow so much email from like a rash of users wanting to join of people I have never seen before
[21:34] <lynorian> was that spam?
[21:36] <nhaines> Yes.  They're using it to get edit rights on wiki.ubuntu.com for spamming purposes.
[21:37] <nhaines> But not anymore!  (Thanks, pleia2).
[21:37] <nhaines> To repeat what I said just 6 minutes ago:
[21:37] <nhaines> pleia2: the recent uptick in join requests to ~locoteams-verified makes more sense now.  Although I'm pretty sure most of them are legitimately invalid requests.
[21:37] <nhaines> As far as ~ubuntu-california,  very prominently on record that ~ubuntu-california should be moderated or delgated and basically no one should be a member and we shouldn't use it for anything except translations and code hosting, neither of which apply to us.  :)
[21:38] <nhaines> (Sorry for the double ping, Lyz.)
[21:45] <lynorian> ok now this makes so much more sense
[21:51] <nhaines> Yup, and I got all those emails twice because they tried to join ~locoteams-verified too.


[00:43] <gavin> thekorn: xpt is a "typelib" - a compiled version of an IDL interface definition, essentially
[00:43] <gavin> xpi is just a renamed zip file :)
[00:43] <gavin> (used for packaging extensions)
[00:46] <gavin> bdrung: moz-version.py is awesome!
[00:46] <bdrung> gavin: your welcome.
[00:48] <bdrung> gavin: do you use moz-version or moz_version.py?
[00:48] <gavin> I'm not using either yet
[00:49] <gavin> but I think it's just what we need
[00:49] <bdrung> gavin: what do you need?
[00:49] <gavin> a script that will turn moz versions into debian versions
[00:49] <gavin> for our deb packaging stuff
[00:50] <bdrung> then it fits perfectly
[00:52] <gavin> indeed :)
[00:53] <bdrung> gavin: it's a by-product from moz-version --compare :)
[01:29] <fta> grrr, my desktop didn't survive the reboot after today's kernel update
[01:30] <fta> bug 365331
[01:31] <fta> and the most recent ubuntu cd i have here is intrepid, so not ext4 :(
[01:35] <mahfouz> fta: how about dl'ing a newer live cd?
[01:35] <mahfouz> it's free!
[01:37] <fta> what do you think i'm doing now? ;)
[01:37] <fta> i'm not desperate, at least not yet
[01:37] <fta> i just have 1 blank cd left
[01:38] <fta> and i never burnt any on this laptop.. oh my
[02:12] <fta> rebooting...
[02:17] <fta> :)
[02:17] <fta_> good
[04:35] <Whompapotamus> i am looking for a way to improve the font appearance within thunderbird 3.0 under ubuntu - my X11 config is fine as all other applications appear clear on my lcd (anti-alias has not been over ridden yet for the thunderbird)
[04:35] <Whompapotamus> any takers
[04:35] <Whompapotamus> ?
[12:44] <joelinux> I have a question about seamonkey maintenance. Who is the main maintainer for that app?
[13:43] <bdrung> asac: around?
[19:00] <araxhiel> Hello, good afternoon ... anyone knows how to avoid that, when you upgrade the firefox package, the package reinstall the search plugins that has already had eliminated previously?
[19:15] <araxhiel> anyone knows how to avoid, when upgrade the firefox package, the package reinstall the search plugins that has already had eliminated previously?
[21:18] <fta> crimsun, did you push your changes to the ubuntu-audio-dev ppa?
[21:47] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:50] <fta> lo
[21:51] <BUGabundo> you always freak me out
[21:51] <BUGabundo> with that harm in the hair
[21:51] <BUGabundo> *air
[21:51] <BUGabundo> reminds me of school
[21:51] <BUGabundo> grr
[21:52] <fta> eh?
[21:52] <BUGabundo> o|
[21:53] <BUGabundo> fta my new baby: http://p.bugabundo.net/i-lost-my-head-and-bough-my-new-fab-gadgetpio-0
[21:54] <debfx> the default theme doesn't show up in the add-ons manager of firefox-3.6 from the daily builds ppa
[21:54] <debfx> I suspect this bug always shows up when having multiple versions of firefox as the theme is installed into /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/extensions
[21:57] <fta> BUGabundo, where do you see an arm?
[21:57] <BUGabundo> well.... face (o) plus arm up (|)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> instead, o/ (waving)
[21:58] <fta> BUGabundo, in my "lo" ?
[21:59] <BUGabundo> of course
[21:59] <fta> lo is L + O, as in hello
[21:59] <crimsun> fta: no
[21:59] <BUGabundo> did you say anything else other then that
[21:59] <crimsun> fta: I'll do that later this evening
[21:59] <BUGabundo> crimsun: question: how is HDMI and PA ?
[22:00] <crimsun> BUGabundo: more precisely, please?
[22:00] <fta> crimsun, thanks
[22:00] <BUGabundo> is it working? got a new laptop (toshiba) gonna install hardy into it tomorrow
[22:00] <BUGabundo> and would like to know how well is HDMI supported
[22:01] <crimsun> hardy?
[22:01] <crimsun> man, there's a very low probability
[22:01] <fta> BUGabundo, yesterday; ext4 killed me on reboot
[22:01] <BUGabundo> low
[22:02] <BUGabundo> me and my release names
[22:02] <BUGabundo> crimsun: 9.10
[22:02] <fta> karmic
[22:02] <crimsun> realize that alsa has to properly support hdmi before pa can work with it, so hardy's alsa and pa stack are...
[22:02] <BUGabundo> fta ext4 working here
[22:02] <crimsun> well, karmic? "maybe"
[22:02] <BUGabundo> ehe maybe
[22:02] <crimsun> if you use karmic, you'll want to use alsa-driver <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:02] <BUGabundo> ok I'll test and ping you if I find any trouble
[22:02] <BUGabundo> from PPA?
[22:03] <crimsun> either grab it from the alsa-source deb in Lucid/10.04, or use the unaccepted linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic that has <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:03] <crimsun> no, not from ppa, from lucid proper
[22:03] <fta> doh! rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_pad_send_event()
[22:04] <BUGabundo> crimsun: nice package name
[22:05] <crimsun> which?
[22:06] <BUGabundo> naccepted-linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic
[22:07] <crimsun> no, that means the "not yet in karmic-proposed" linux-backports-modules-2.6.31
[22:09] <BUGabundo> ah
[22:23] <fta> BUGabundo, I want to buy an internet radio, but i can't find what i want
[22:24] <fta> the closest is the Squeezebox Radio from Logitech, but it doesn't do FM (nor DAB)
[22:25] <BUGabundo> :\
[22:25] <BUGabundo> well try a wd live
[22:25] <BUGabundo> or boxee box
[22:27] <fta> i want a radio
[22:27] <fta> no video
[22:27] <fta> bug 365331
[22:27] <BUGabundo> they do audio too
[22:29] <fta> noone seems to care about this bug :(
[22:29] <BUGabundo> eheh adobe is updating their page footers to include 2010 trade marks http://page2rss.com/p/80b83e05a0a18c77aca72bb6aa0b8d69_4719366_4750890
[22:29] <BUGabundo> fta maybe because no one can reproduce it »?
[22:39] <fta> a dozen people sure did


[14:52] <ikonia> mirror owners could you confirm if you are mirroring all releases all archs in your mirroring or just all active releases for selected archs, the documention on mirroring standards suggests everything for all archs but it not explicit
[15:27] <cjwatson> ikonia: I'm Launchpad staff rather than a mirror owner; but in general mirroring only some releases is significantly more complex because it requires parsing Packages and Sources files to work out which files from the pool are needed, so typical "full" Ubuntu mirrors take everything from their upstream (so amd64 and i386 for mirrors of archive.ubuntu.com, and the other arches for mirrors of ...
[15:27] <cjwatson> ... ports.ubuntu.com).  You can use debmirror if you need to do more selective mirroring than that.
[15:54] <ikonia> I'm of the same opinion, I'd at least want a full release repo - at best the ability to select a release or not, zero desire to exclude things, just curious as the wording is not %100 authoritve, more suggestive


[15:55] <ikonia> I need to put a desktop on a 20.04 server install on a pi, I've put lubuntu-desktop meta package on it, but I get no output on the hdmi (not even on the console)
[15:55] <ikonia> I know the hdmi output on console is enabled by default, is there a way to 'test' the hdmi connection,
[15:56] <ikonia> like an edid probe or something
[15:56] <ikonia> don't normally need a console on the pi,