 Hiii
 Heya (re @Thanos: Hiii)
 A lot congrats again for this amazing distro (re @tsimonq2: Heya)
 Thanks! Is there anything we can help you with?
 Ok I am using Lubuntu LTS 22.04.1 with the Lubuntu-dev backports so LXQT 1.1
 One of my question is what do you use for apps like gimp or blender, inkscape?? Debs or flatpaks?
 And another question is if you know any gui app fro ufw for Lubuntu
 The answer is, it's Linux, whatever floats your boat :) (re @Thanos: One of my question is what do you use for apps like gimp or blender, inkscape?? Debs or flatpaks?)
 As a flavor with Canonical backing I'd try debs first, then snaps, then flatpak
 That's a really good question...
 I don't, but I know at work we use ufw frequently... I can ask around? (re @Thanos: And another question is if you know any gui app fro ufw for Lubuntu)
 Ok I will follow this method...I thought that canonical tries to promote snaps instead of Debs that's why I asked (re @tsimonq2: As a flavor with Canonical backing I'd try debs first, then snaps, then flatpak)
 It's Ubuntu under the hood and Ubuntu is a Linux distro, whatever works for you :) (re @Thanos: Ok I will follow this method...I thought that canonical tries to promote snaps instead of Debs that's why I asked)
 About the ufw I know the gufw that is the graphical but is based on GTK..I wanted to see if there is something for QT (re @tsimonq2: That's a really good question...
 I don't, but I know at work we use ufw frequently... I can ask around?)
 Also can I stay to this group or it's only for the developers of Lubuntu?
 You went to the exact right spot at the exact right time :) (re @Thanos: Also can I stay to this group or it's only for the developers of Lubuntu?)
 This is the right channel to ask support questions
 And you happened to catch the rare time I help with support here ;)
 Oh so I am feeling lucky
 We do have a development channel, but that's more to discuss "what is a sane default?" rather than "what is the best application/what application does this?
 Ok ok
[23:37] <lubuttun> Hello, i wanna know if there is possibility to use Lubuntu on macOS M2


[00:09] <bluebomber> Hahahaha! That reminds me: I have to update my blog post to mention that terrible candy.
[00:22] <bluebomber> Does anyone remember or know the man from The Linux Foundation that works on OpenPrinting? We talked with him awhile Wednesday night during the classic movie event.
[00:23] <itnet7> Til
[00:23] <itnet7> bluebomber: https://launchpad.net/~till-kamppeter
[00:24] <bluebomber> Till Kamppeter?
[00:24] <bluebomber> Yeah, oh yeah.
[00:24] <bluebomber> I thought so. I just checked the event's RSVP list. :)
[00:24] <bluebomber> Thanks, itnet7
[00:24] <itnet7> I will be back in a but going to do some quick updates on my irssi server and then begin using tmux
[00:24] <itnet7> no problem
[00:24] <itnet7> bbiab
[01:14] <itnet7> So, for everyone currently using screen/irssi/byobu.... You should really check out tmux
[02:42] <mhall119> what does tmux offer?
[02:43] <govatent> hello everyone
[03:18] <bluebomber> Hi, govatent.
[03:19] <govatent> hey
[03:20] <govatent> whats up
[03:21] <bluebomber> Not much, but speaking of tmux/screen, can someone explain how these terminal multiplexers are working with regard to detaching/reattaching processes from a terminal?
[03:21] <bluebomber> I didn't know you could do that with processes. I'm assuming detaching is different from running a process as a background job.
[03:22] <govatent> i am learning this soon myself. been wanting to do it on my server
[03:25] <bluebomber> I see what purpose they serve, but I want to know the technical details underneath.
[03:25] <bluebomber> :)
[03:26] <bluebomber> ...anyone?
[03:30] <bluebomber> K, time to go grab a refill on my chai.
[07:15] <maxh> http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/florida-roads-go-by-many-names-8212-too-many-some-say/1200393 Isn’t it great how our state legislature have fixed problems like poverty, bad schools, environmental issues, and lack of money to important programmes, and are now able to focus on regulating dedications?
[11:32] <bluebomber> maxh: Yes. I'm so glad that we live in a state with proper priorities.
[13:39] <dorgan> where can i get pycon manager?
[13:59] <thinkjson> mhall119: LinkedIn is convinced that I should know Mackenzie Morgan. Do you know her personally?
[14:00] <thinkjson> oh, and hi by the way ;-)
[14:19] <maxolasersquad> thinkjson: I believe she is a MOTU.
[14:20] <dorgan> maxolasersquad: MOTU?
[14:39] <maxolasersquad> dorgan: Master of the Universe.
[14:40] <maxolasersquad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[14:40] <maxolasersquad> https://launchpad.net/~motu/+members
[14:41] <maxolasersquad> So if you have some Ubuntu peeps in linked.in, then that would probably explain it.
[14:59] <thinkjson> cool
[14:59] <thinkjson> I guess I should meet her eventually
[15:12] <mhall119> thinkjson: too bad linkedin didn't convince you of this a week ago
[15:12] <mhall119> she was in Orlando for UDS
[15:12] <mhall119> but yet, I know her personally
[15:13] <mhall119> she goes by maco on IRC
[19:08] <thinkjson> mhall119: ah ok. I've met maco before on IRC. Didn't know that was her real name.
[19:32] <thinkjson> so true - http://xkcd.com/963/
[19:37] <DammitJim> is it overdue?


[00:51] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> HI ALL
[00:54] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> i was trying to use UNETBOOTING software and i have a problem with it it dont have the verison that i downloaded on the list it just goes up to UBUNTU 12.04 LIVE and not what i have UBUNTU 13.04 higest it is the UNBUNTU 12.04 LIVE
[00:56] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> do i choose the UBUNTU 12.04 LIVE
[00:56] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> IM TRYING TO BOOT IT FROM A
[00:56] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> opps caps
[00:56] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> USB  drive
[00:58] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> i trying to boot and install it from THE USB STICK and not a DVD CD
[00:59] <NEWTOUBUNTUINEED> can somone hep me please
[04:37] <pitti> good morning
[04:48] <didrocks> with the latest MIR acked, I think it's time to get unity 7 and touch to saucy!
[04:49] <didrocks> urgh, who relaunched the indicators /o\
[04:50] <didrocks> someone redeployed it :/
[05:06] <didrocks> session restart
[05:12]  * didrocks grumbles about the commit and rebuild from adding upstart session to unity
[05:12] <didrocks> "no best time than 12 hour before releasing and asking for a rebuild"
[05:27] <didrocks> ok, there is for an hour of test running, better to do my exercice meanwhile :)
[06:03] <m4n1sh> didrocks: can saucy be updated to latest zeitgeist version 0.9.14?
[06:11] <m4n1sh> sorry, I meant 0.9.13
[06:27] <didrocks> m4n1sh: not today, but you can ask for sponsoring :)
[06:28] <didrocks> jibel: I can't have the tests running anymore, not sure if it's a real regression or something else
[06:38]  * didrocks recreates a container due to the kernel upgrade, just in case with dkms…
[06:39] <didrocks> it seems to be latest ted's change
[06:39] <m4n1sh> didrocks: oh yeah. I wasn't asking you to do right away. Just wanted to know if anything else needs to be done from my side before it is fit to be accepted. Just wanted to make sure nothing is missing form my side
[06:40] <didrocks> m4n1sh: if you can propose a package for sponsoring, that would be awesome :)
[06:41] <maxiaojun> What's the future plan of Ubuntu's CJKV inputting stack?
[06:42] <m4n1sh> didrocks: it isn't in debian as I can see. will propose for sponsorship
[06:42] <didrocks> m4n1sh: thanks
[06:43] <didrocks> maxiaojun: more a question for #ubuntu-unity I guess
[06:43] <maxiaojun> didrocks: thanks
[06:47] <jibel> hey didrocks , which tests ?
[06:48] <didrocks> jibel: indicators and unity. I thought it could be a dmks issue when upgrading the kernel, but not. I think it's one of the very late ted's commit that was taken with latest build
[06:48] <didrocks> jibel: I just reverted it and relaunched an unity bulid
[06:49] <jibel> didrocks, unity died during the tests?
[06:49] <didrocks> jibel: I think it's the panel service
[06:49] <didrocks> and then, it's making unity dying
[06:50] <didrocks> jibel: 4 runs, reproduceable reliably
[06:50] <didrocks> jibel: tedg migrated the panel service to upstart
[06:50] <didrocks> and removed the .service file
[06:50] <didrocks> I'm sure there is something with the service not responding and unity goes to a bad trip :p
[06:51] <jibel> didrocks, i'll restart the machine to make sure the env is clean, and restart indicators
[06:51] <didrocks> jibel: I did that
[06:51] <jibel> ah
[06:51] <didrocks> jibel: and even reprovisionned after that
[06:51] <didrocks> jibel: so, let's see with the new unity
[06:52] <didrocks> jibel: I'm stopping the current check
[06:52] <didrocks> as soon as i386 is published
[06:52] <didrocks> I'll rerun the indicators
[06:52] <didrocks> with whole ppa
[06:52] <didrocks> (as the tests are quicker than unity)
[06:52] <jibel> didrocks, we can increase the memory allocation, this box has 8G but that'd just push the wall further
[06:52] <didrocks> jibel: doesn't seem to be linked to memory though
[06:53] <didrocks> jibel: when it was stuck, we only had 400MB taken
[06:53] <didrocks> and no swap
[06:54] <jibel> didrocks, right, after dropping the caches there's only 109MB used :/
[06:54] <didrocks> jibel: let's see and cross fingers that the upstart change is the guilty one
[06:55] <jibel> didrocks, did you watch on the KVM the state of the screen?
[06:56] <didrocks> jibel: no, I just relyied on logs, I need to setup KVM here I guess
[07:59] <Laney> hey there
[07:59] <Laney> f r i d a y !
[07:59] <hyperair> tgif
[08:00]  * hyperair feels fairly caffeine-deprived
[08:00] <pitti> merci dieu c'est vendredi
[08:00] <pitti> Zum Glück ist Freitag!
[08:00] <pitti> so what will we flame about today?
[08:01] <czajkowski> pitti: pick a default and change your mind and discuss :)
[08:12] <didrocks> pitti: don't tempt me :)
[08:12]  * czajkowski tempts didrocks with some cake
[08:12] <didrocks> ahah ;)
[08:13] <Laney> we can't flame without seb128 anyway :P
[08:14] <czajkowski> we've done the default language should be french and people didn't see the joke there
[08:14] <didrocks> they really took it seriously
[08:14] <jibel> ah, was it a joke?
[08:14] <didrocks> that was hilarious :)
[08:15] <czajkowski> didrocks: oh yes indeed so many threads were started with OMG...
[08:15] <czajkowski> amusing really
[08:15] <seb128> hey didrocks Laney pitti czajkowski, happy friday!
[08:15] <pitti> seb128: bonjour seb128, bon vendredi !
[08:15] <czajkowski> whooo Friday \o/
[08:15]  * Laney gets down
[08:15] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:15] <pitti> seb128: tbird sucks! let's get evo back in
[08:16]  * czajkowski hands pitti some soap to wash his mouth out :)
[08:16] <pitti> I'm really missing my appointments in the indicator
[08:16] <czajkowski> pretty thunderbird is pretty
[08:16] <pitti> yeah, well, I guess it's still too early, I'm not really in flamebait mood yet
[08:16]  * pitti pats his mutt
[08:17] <czajkowski> pine ftw!
[08:17] <seb128> pitti, appointements in the indicator work ... did you try to install evo to see if that makes it work for you?
[08:18] <pitti> wohoo, getting serious now :)
[08:18]  * pitti installs evo
[08:18] <Mirv> didrocks: some feedback from the raring SRU btw.. ugly changelogs like some entries with only the automatic messages. should we start to clean those for SRUs if they still happen? as another note, the fixes are not yet in saucy ;)
[08:19] <didrocks> Mirv: can we handle that on Monday? TBH, completely spawn with saucy ;)
[08:19] <didrocks> Mirv: but yeah, if you have cases with only empty changelog, would be interesting to have the test case exactly
[08:20] <pitti> seb128: so I installed evolution (killed ~/.config/evolution, .cache, .local etc. before); I see my gcal stuff there
[08:20] <pitti> $ killall indicator-datetime-service
[08:20] <Laney> My manually added calendar still works but the UOA one is busted of course
[08:20] <Mirv> didrocks: yes, let's continue then, to check eg. if those were already fixed or could still happen
[08:20] <pitti> now I indeed see the appointments in the indicator
[08:20] <didrocks> Mirv: right :)
[08:21] <pitti> seb128: I killed evo and evo-alarm-notify, appointments in indicator still work
[08:21] <pitti> so indeed, installing evolution does some magic to make that work
[08:25] <seb128> pitti, well, to me the issue was that calendar needs credentials
[08:25] <seb128> but the indicator doesn't have an UI to ask for your password
[08:25] <seb128> so auth would just fail
[08:25] <pitti> hm, but UOA already knows the account
[08:26] <seb128> but that was before the online account integration time
[08:26] <seb128> right
[08:26] <pitti> empathy and gnome-documents just work then
[08:26] <seb128> seems like buggy still
[10:37] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: I have your rain and cloud, please come and collect and bring it back up north!
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> lol
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, it's beautiful sunshine here
[10:38] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: https://twitter.com/Crustyfur/status/342935384298225664
[10:38] <czajkowski> I'm right under that flippin' cloud!
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> hah :)
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, is it thundering? i'm only interested in collecting your weather system if it has thunder in it
[10:39] <czajkowski> yes we've had thunder
[10:39] <czajkowski> it scared the hens
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> ooh
[10:39] <czajkowski> they were very much unimpressed
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> feel free to send that up to the midlands ;)
[10:40] <czajkowski> the hens or the weather :)
[10:40] <chrisccoulson> czajkowski, just the bits of the weather that are thundering :)
[10:40] <czajkowski> bah
[10:56] <mhr3> seb128, if gee-0.8 and gee-1.0 exports the same symbols and libunity links with 1.0 and some other app that also uses libunity links with 0.8, will the dl be able to resolve all that?
[10:56] <seb128> mhr3, that seems like a recipe for troubles
[10:56] <mhr3> orly? :)
[10:56] <seb128> mhr3, you are likely up for symbol clash
[10:57] <seb128> mhr3, don't do that :p
[10:57] <mhr3> it's being done as we speak
[10:57] <seb128> :-(
[10:58] <seb128> mhr3, where did you find gee-1.0?
[10:58] <ricotz> mhr3, hi, yeah, that won't work
[10:58] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[10:59] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[10:59] <mhr3> seb128, libgee2 vs libgee0.8
[10:59] <seb128> mhr3, ah, 0.6 and 0.8 then
[10:59] <mhr3> seb128, yea, 0.6 has gee-1.0 as pc name
[10:59] <ricotz> mhr3, the whole runtime stack needs to use the same gee
[11:00] <mhr3> :/ let's prepare for some weird gee crashes then
[11:00] <seb128> mhr3, what is having the issue? empathy?
[11:01] <mhr3> seb128, anything that will use folks + libunity on S
[11:01] <mhr3> so yes, empathy comes to mind first
[11:01] <mhr3> unless they dropped libunity stuff
[11:01] <seb128> shrug
[11:02] <seb128> mhr3, any plan to port libunity to gee 0.8 or 0.10? ,-)
[11:02] <mhr3> if it becomes a real problem for us...
[11:03] <mhr3> the two gees are largely compatible so it might be a simple thing of s/gee-1.0/gee-0.8/
[11:03] <seb128> we should maybe directly go for 0.10
[11:04] <mhr3> or we could remove any gee stuff from libunity and just use glib containers
[11:04] <mhr3> you can do everything with list array and hashtable, no? :)
[11:04] <ricotz> seb128, 0.10 doesnt change api and is 0.8
[11:04] <seb128> ricotz, ok
[11:11] <maxiaojun> Can someone review the patch attached to this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/920834
[11:11] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 920834 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus cannot show icon in panel without appindicator" [Low,Confirmed]
[11:19] <maxiaojun> Can someone review the patch attached to this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/920834
[11:19] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 920834 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus cannot show icon in panel without appindicator" [Low,Confirmed]
[12:31] <jbicha> seb128: could you rebuild gtk3 for the wayland transition?
[12:32] <seb128> jbicha, yes, I've an upload planned anyway
[12:32] <seb128> does it rebuild without change?
[12:34] <jbicha> I haven't tried yet but it's breaking my attempts to build against -proposed
[12:42] <seb128> can you try?
[12:48] <jbicha> trying
[12:58] <davmor2> hey seb128 you might be able to help me with a quick question.  For apps.ubuntu.com/cat with have  a basic apt script that is run each day, it's been breaking recently due to faulty .desktop files noodles has filed a bug against the app and fixed the script so it no longer breaks. if we got a log of the .desktop issues though would be useful to you guys?
[12:59] <seb128> davmor2, hey, what sort of errors?
[13:00] <davmor2> seb128: it would pick up on any error that apt throws up for an app basically,  I think the issue was with a universe app where the .desktop file was laid out incorrectly off the top of my head,  but we need to pull in every app from all the standard repos basically
[13:01] <seb128> well, if you find error in .desktop shipped by packages sure open bugs
[13:02] <davmor2> seb128: okay that's great, so if we store a log of the issues and can file a bug for each one that is the way to go then yes?
[13:03] <seb128> correct
[13:08] <davmor2> seb128: that's great then thanks for your time :)
[13:08] <seb128> yw
[13:15] <jbicha> seb128: yes, the GTK3 desktop branch builds ok
[13:15] <seb128> jbicha, great, thanks for confirming
[13:51] <xnox> seb128: Laney: are you two implementing system settings designs for touch as per mpt's designs?
[13:52] <Laney> xnox: that's the idea
[13:52] <Laney> why?
[13:53] <seb128> xnox, not only us but yes
[13:53] <seb128> xnox, see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-system-settings-panels
[13:53] <xnox> Laney: i think I am on the hook for OOBE (out of the box experience) the wizard portion of it, which helps the user setup the phone: name, U1, timezone, language, etc.
[13:54] <xnox> which all well, call into system settings to implement those.
[13:54] <xnox> I also wonder if any design can be shared between the two, or at least the backend logic.
[13:54] <seb128> xnox, system settings doesn't provide APIs in the current design
[13:54] <seb128> we should yes
[13:54] <seb128> those seems like dbus calls
[13:54] <seb128> we should do a qt plugin to share
[13:54] <xnox> seb128: hmmm.... ok.
[13:54] <seb128> or maybe a settings-backend
[13:55] <xnox> seb128: it's just, unlike the desktop. OOBE will stay installed, in case user resets the phone. I even ponder if we should just be a single app/source package doing it all.
[13:56] <Laney> the idea of the settings stuff is to make reusable widgets as much as possible
[13:56] <desrt> pitti: hey.  tedg and i wanted to talk to you yesterday
[13:57] <desrt> pitti: we want to make apport collect a stacktrace and file a bug whenever a program hits a g_critical()
[13:57] <pitti> hey desrt
[13:57] <tedg> seb128, Do you know why the debian introspection policy wants the dev package to depend on the gir package?  It seems a bit odd to me.
[13:57] <desrt> pitti: we have a few ideas for ways to do this but your input is very appreciated
[13:58] <desrt> pitti: one of the most obvious ways is to do «if (fork()==0)abort();» on each critical
[13:58] <desrt> so apport will see the spawned child crashing and record its stacktrace
[13:58] <desrt> (which will be the same as the parent that reached the critical)
[13:58] <pitti> ah, that should actually work
[13:58] <pitti> easier than calling apport in glib
[13:58] <seb128> tedg, they are part of doing dev with the lib?  not really sure, but before that we had to duplicate lib/gir in build-depends for most packages
[13:58] <desrt> pitti: so the one problem with this is that we lose the other threads
[13:58] <pitti> desrt: however, please don't just call abort()
[13:59] <pitti> desrt: it would be good if we could salvage the actual message, otherwise the reports will be mostly useless
[13:59] <desrt> pitti: which i guess isn't _too_ important
[13:59] <pitti> desrt: i. e. set teh __glib_abortmsg or whatever the name was, so that we can pry it out of the core dump and use as the title and dupe signature
[13:59] <desrt> sounds good
[14:00] <desrt> pitti: so another question: you know we have these cases where you start a program and get like 2000 criticals all at once
[14:00] <desrt> how is apport/lp going to like that?
[14:00] <pitti> apport has a rate limit
[14:00] <desrt> does it do deduping before filing bugs?
[14:00] <pitti> you can only have one unseen report per user and program
[14:00] <desrt> oh.  neat.
[14:01] <tedg> pitti, Actually ev is looking at fixing that.
[14:01] <pitti> and after you saw the report (i. e. in the apport popup), you can only have three reports per program and user and day
[14:01] <pitti> tedg: fixing what?
[14:01] <desrt> pitti: perfect
[14:01] <tedg> pitti, Making it per signature
[14:01] <pitti> urgh, no!
[14:02] <desrt> pitti: what is the absolute best way for me to crash the program in the fork?  abort() after setting that variable?
[14:02] <pitti> desrt: so at least for now we'd get them trickle in, instead of one huge blast
[14:02] <pitti> which is probably good, since often one has followup criticals
[14:03] <desrt> indeed -- and you always want the first one
[14:03] <desrt> although that is an interesting point....
[14:03] <pitti> desrt: abort() sounds nice, SIGABRT is more appropriate to this than a SIGSEGV or so
[14:03] <Guest52607> you guys do know that some of our programs spew a lot of criticals, right?
[14:03] <desrt> there is a possible race here if you fork() off a bunch of things all at once in response to a set of criticals
[14:03] <desrt> the second fork() may get to the abort() first
[14:04] <pitti> desrt: you could either re-use the g_assert() code of setting that variable and then fork and do the action that it would do as if it was fatal
[14:04]  * desrt wonders if abort() is signal-handler-safe
[14:04] <pitti> desrt: fork() and wait() ?
[14:04] <desrt> pitti: interesting.
[14:04] <pitti> desrt: I don't think you want to write a massive number of core files in parallel anyway, so serialization sounds safer to me
[14:05] <desrt> pitti: we already have an established convention that if (fork()) { wait() } else { exit() } is non-blocking
[14:05] <pitti> desrt: at least we should start small
[14:05] <desrt> since g_spawn_async_with_pipes() does exactly this
[14:05] <danwest> Bug 1173818: "Unable to set solid colors and gradients as desktop background" - anyone know a workaround or status on this bug?
[14:05] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1173818 in gnome-control-center-unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to set solid colors and gradients as desktop background in gnome-control-center" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173818
[14:05] <desrt> (it creates an intermediate helper process and waits for it to quit in order to know if the exec() was successful)
[14:06] <desrt> also so it can preemtively reap...
[14:06] <desrt> pitti: another option is that we only fork/abort the first time
[14:06] <desrt> i like your wait idea, though
[14:06] <pitti> desrt: just thinking aloud, could the child set the fatal flag, and just call g_critical() again, with the same message?
[14:06] <desrt> pitti: definitely not
[14:06] <pitti> desrt: that would avoid copying the assert msg logic
[14:07] <pitti> ah, it woudl duplicate teh screen output
[14:07] <desrt> pitti: after fork() in a threaded program you are in a dangerous spot
[14:07] <desrt> when you fork() only the thread that made the syscall is brought into the new process image
[14:07] <desrt> and the other threads may have been holding locks
[14:07] <desrt> so you can't do anything that may try to acquire a lock
[14:07]  * ogra reads didrocks mail and wonders who cares about unity7 .... we want unity8 !
[14:07] <desrt> ie: you should limit yourself to syscalls and libc "signal-handler-safe" functions
[14:08] <didrocks> ogra: don't tell that I spent all those crazy hours for nothing :p
[14:08] <didrocks> ogra: but but, you have touch as well!
[14:08] <ogra> you mean unity8 ?
[14:08] <pitti> desrt: right; so poke the message into __glib_assert_msg and abort(), and the parent wait()s, that sounds feasible to me
[14:08] <desrt> pitti: great
[14:09] <desrt> tedg: since you brought this topic, do you want to write the patch?  this sounds like something we'd be happy to have upstream now...
[14:09] <desrt> i'm happy to do it as well, though
[14:09] <pitti> desrt: NB that each critical will incur a significant delay, though
[14:09] <pitti> as writing and compressing the core dump takes a while
[14:09] <desrt> pitti: and the parent doesn't get SIGCHLD until that is done?
[14:10] <pitti> desrt: apport fortunately already has this new class "RecoverableError" which we can use for this (as it's not really a crash)
[14:10] <desrt> pitti: ya... this is what ted was originally using
[14:10] <pitti> desrt: no, the child needs to hang in limbo until the kernel finished coredumping it
[14:10] <desrt> and spawning apport directly to report it
[14:10] <desrt> but it lacked a proper trace
[14:10] <desrt> so we're trying to figure out how to get that
[14:11] <desrt> pitti: hmmmmmm
[14:11] <pitti> we are going to get looots of those, though :)
[14:11] <tedg> So in my original patch I turned it on with an env var.
[14:11] <tedg> Basically so that we could ramp up slowly
[14:11] <desrt> i think that's a fairly reasonable idea
[14:11] <pitti> so maybe at first we should limit it to some packages, or never send these to LP, but only to errors
[14:11] <desrt> G_DEBUG=fork-criticals or so
[14:12] <pitti> ^ indeed
[14:12] <pitti> it's bad to decide it in apport, as at this point the overhead has already happened
[14:12] <tedg> desrt, In the short term I need to finish off some HUD stuff... so if you've got time now, go ahead.  Otherwise I'll get to it.
[14:12] <desrt> so another interesting idea may be to do an async wait for the child
[14:12] <desrt> by scheduling a task for it on the glib worker thread
[14:12] <desrt> and don't emit another one until the child has finished for the first
[14:12] <desrt> this would probably also implicitly rate-limit the case of 2000-criticals-on-start
[14:13] <desrt> it makes me a bit nervous to do all of this work from the critical handler (since something is probably wrong if we're at that point) but as long as we fork() off the crashing image _before_ we do this fancy stuff, we won't risk contaminating the trace
[14:14] <pitti> desrt: err, but you are going to get the child's core, not the uncontaminated parent's
[14:14] <desrt> correct.
[14:15] <desrt> i think we have a misunderstanding
[14:15] <desrt> i'm doing the comtaminating work in the parent
[14:15] <desrt> in order to keep track of when it's 'safe' to launch another child
[14:15] <pitti> oh, right, sorry
[14:15] <pitti> yes
[14:16] <desrt> okay.  sounds good
[14:16] <desrt> thanks for the infos
[14:16]  * desrt will probably have a patch for this today
[14:16] <desrt> it's actually pretty easy
[14:16] <tedg> desrt, You took out all the hard stuff by making apport do the stack trace ;-)
[14:17] <desrt> tedg: that was my plan all along
[14:17] <desrt> apport will be able to get a better stacktrace than we could ever get by introspecting ourselves
[14:17] <desrt> and it'll be able to retrace it as well
[14:20] <pitti> desrt: can we prefix the assertion message in some way?
[14:21] <Laney> tjaalton: Looks like your wayland sync isn't quite right
[14:21] <pitti> desrt: I'm thinking, with a glib assert msg and SIGABRT apport will usually treat it as a normal assertion violation and file it as a crash
[14:21] <Laney> file conflict :-)
[14:21]  * Laney fixes
[14:21] <pitti> desrt: so we need some way to tell these apart, perhaps with a string prefix (or does it already start with *-CRITICAL?) or perhaps we use a different signal
[14:21] <tjaalton> Laney: oh?
[14:22] <Laney> tjaalton: Check the version on the Conflicts/Replaces and what we had in Ubuntu before
[14:22] <tjaalton> ahh..
[14:23] <Laney> pitti: Did packagekit get rolled back alright? (i.e. can I remove that block?)
[14:23] <pitti> Laney: yes, it was
[14:23] <pitti> Laney: it was rather easy in the end, three removals and one rebuild
[14:24] <Laney> excellent
[14:24] <Laney> didn't think it would be too hard
[14:24] <Laney> proposed makes doing that kind of thing more feasible
[14:24] <pitti> OMGyes
[14:24] <pitti> I'm so happy we have this thing
[14:24] <pitti> (in a multitude of ways)
[14:25] <pitti> putting something in between dput, "ohsh**", and "why did that FTBFS not happen in my sbuild" :)
[14:25] <desrt> pitti: so you're going to have g_messages_fork_critical() in the backtrace
[14:25] <pitti> desrt: ah, good 'nuff
[14:26] <pitti> well
[14:26] <pitti> provided that the machine has glib debug symbols
[14:26] <pitti> so maybe not
[14:26] <desrt> pitti: explain this other variable to me
[14:26] <desrt> __glib_assert_msg
[14:26] <pitti> desrt: that is _the_ variable, what's the other one?
[14:26] <desrt> what is that and how do you get access to it if there are no debug symbols?
[14:27] <pitti> desrt: oh, see commit 3658727c; perhaps you saw __abort_msg
[14:27] <desrt> right.  interesting.
[14:27] <desrt> but it's not marked as exported
[14:27] <desrt> so... how does that work?
[14:28] <pitti> desrt: well, you can only set it from inside glib
[14:28] <desrt> pitti: i mean, how does apport find it?
[14:28] <pitti> call gdb with 'print __glib_assert_msg'
[14:28] <desrt> and that works with no debug symbols?
[14:28] <desrt> this confuses me because it's not on the dlsym table either
[14:28] <desrt> so i don't know how it would find it...
[14:29] <pitti> hm, good question; the retracer will of course figure it out, but maybe not the initial apport run on the client side, indeed
[14:29] <desrt> ahhh
[14:29] <pitti> ah, I wasn't actually aware of that -- apport's autopkgtest has a dependency on glib-dbg
[14:29] <desrt> right.. so good enough for the retracer
[14:29] <pitti> I guess for that very reason
[14:30] <desrt> so that means that you can't tell the difference at bug-filing time
[14:30] <pitti> that makes it kinda impossible for client-side duplicate detection, but at least we can do it on the server side
[14:30] <pitti> i. e. all that we see on the client is a SIGABRT and a core
[14:30] <desrt> we could also distropatch glib to export this symbol on the .so in ubuntu
[14:30] <desrt> or maybe even discuss doing that upstream
[14:30] <pitti> or install glib's -dbg by default (but not sure how well taht would go)
[14:31] <desrt> pitti: did you see this minidebug stuff?
[14:31] <pitti> desrt: minidump? yes, a few years ago at least
[14:31] <desrt> no.  minidebuginfo
[14:31] <desrt> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MiniDebugInfo
[14:31] <desrt> it's this neat idea that alex had
[14:31] <pitti> no, I haven't seen that
[14:31] <desrt> turns out that you can include some basic debug info (symbols only) in the default install for a very very small size cost
[14:32] <desrt> like +0.5%
[14:33] <desrt> i think we should seriously consider doing this
[14:34] <pitti> at least for libc and glib that sounds interesting indeed
[14:34] <pitti> as these will appear pretty much everywhere
[14:34] <pitti> and qt
[14:34] <desrt> for those, i'd include even more data
[14:34] <desrt> i think maybe this doesn't impact us as much as it does fedora because we have a good retracer
[14:34] <desrt> but it would definitely improve our ability to do client-side matching
[14:35] <pitti> desrt: ^ perhaps not even that
[14:35] <pitti> we still have the address signature
[14:35] <pitti> which usually works well enough for the client-side
[14:35] <desrt> pitti: well... for __glib_assert_msg, for example :)
[14:35] <pitti> even though it's a "magic" abort, it's still an abort on a specific place in the code
[14:35] <pitti> so client-side dupling on SAS should still work
[14:36] <pitti> yeah, we cannot figure out the contents of the message on the client side, but we can tell that we know about it in errors/LP
[14:36] <pitti> and the retracers figure out the rest
[14:36] <desrt> fair enough
[14:36] <desrt> but you still have the problem that you want to know the difference between a real crash and a critical on the client side, right?
[14:37] <pitti> SAS is not an one-to-one mapping of course, as the addresses are different between architectures and builds, but the other day I did an analysis
[14:37] <pitti> and it turned out that the vast majority of crashes only have 3 to 5 SASes, with the topmost having 20 or so
[14:37] <pitti> desrt: right, that would be good, to know what to show to the user
[14:37] <desrt> SaS = stacktrace as-a service? :)
[14:37] <pitti> StacktraceAddressSignature
[14:38] <desrt> pitti: i guess you have some magic in there to derandomise the addresses based on the base address of the library
[14:38] <pitti> desrt: yes
[14:38] <desrt> like you match on libglib-2.0.so+0x2342
[14:39] <desrt> pitti: anyway... how would you like to find out about the nature of the crash?
[14:39] <desrt> i could SIGTRAP instead of SIGABRT
[14:40] <pitti> a different symbol would definitively help
[14:40] <desrt> afaik, sigtrap is still fatal and core-producing by default
[14:40] <pitti> or something in /proc
[14:40] <desrt> pitti: but we're back to the same problem about symbol visibility...
[14:41] <pitti> $ sh -c 'kill -TRAP $$'
[14:41] <pitti> yep, apport coming up
[14:41] <pitti> desrt: hm, if you set an environment variable that doesn't reflect in /proc/self/environ AFAIR, right?
[14:41] <desrt> i don't think so
[14:41] <desrt> and i don't want to manipulate the environment
[14:42] <desrt> this is _definitely_ not signal-handler-safe
[14:42] <desrt> i could open a file and that would show in /proc/self/fds/
[14:42] <desrt> but this is getting gross
[14:42] <pitti> hah
[14:42] <desrt> creat("/tmp/not-a-real-crash-kthx");
[14:43]  * pitti looks in /proc/self whether there's something else fungible
[14:44] <desrt> #if (defined (__i386__) || defined (__x86_64__)) && defined (__GNUC__) && __GNUC__ >= 2
[14:44] <desrt> #  define G_BREAKPOINT()        G_STMT_START{ __asm__ __volatile__ ("int $03"); }G_STMT_END
[14:44] <desrt> i like this.
[14:44] <desrt> #else   /* !__i386__ && !__alpha__ */
[14:44] <desrt> #  define G_BREAKPOINT()        G_STMT_START{ raise (SIGTRAP); }G_STMT_END
[14:45] <desrt> i consider that this is going to be ?@#$ annoying if you try to run under a debugger....
[14:45] <pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=SIGTRAP
[14:46] <pitti> wow, we actually have exactly one crash report with TRAP
[14:46] <pitti> no, two
[14:46] <desrt> the compiz ones?
[14:46] <pitti> and bug 178959
[14:46] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 178959 in GtkHTML "evolution crashed with SIGTRAP (assertion failed)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178959
[14:46] <pitti>  (aaancient)
[14:47] <desrt> wtf
[14:47] <desrt> why would there be sigtrap in g_logv?
[14:47] <pitti> oh, that's not an apport report
[14:48] <pitti> let's consider this a human typo in the description
[14:48] <desrt> signal 5 (SIGTRAP)
[14:48] <desrt> that's one hell of a typo :)
[14:48] <pitti> and the compiz one is signal 5
[14:48] <desrt> 5 is trap
[14:48] <pitti> desrt: no, I mean the gtkhtml crash
[14:48] <desrt> 6 is abrt
[14:48] <desrt> ahh
[14:48] <desrt> my question stands
[14:48] <desrt> how the heck do we get signal 5 here?
[14:48] <pitti> right; no idea
[14:49] <desrt> so the code has
[14:49] <desrt> if (!(test_level & G_LOG_FLAG_RECURSION)) G_BREAKPOINT ();
[14:49] <desrt> ie: compiz probably installs a custom log message handler that, itself, is causing criticals to be emitted
[14:50] <desrt> no wait.  that's backwaqrds.
[14:50] <Laney> tjaalton: ok, uploaded that wayland fix. It's probably something we need to carry for a while unfortunately.
[14:50] <pitti> desrt: so, one in a million sounds like an acceptable false positive rate for determining that's a "recoverable error", but of course it's still a hack
[14:51] <desrt> pitti: anything we do is a hack short of defining some new symbol that the debugger will definitely see
[14:51] <pitti> hm, I guess we shouldn't set errno, that might be interesting in some cases
[14:51] <tjaalton> Laney: yeah.. thanks
[14:51] <pitti> desrt: yeah, I agree; if we want to see it without debug symbols we need to export it properly, right? or add a public function to return __glib_assert_msg
[14:52] <pitti> in which case we can just as well have a __glib_critical_msg and a function for that
[14:52] <pitti> to avoid the string/stack trace heuristics
[14:52] <desrt> i'd prefer variables to functions
[14:52] <desrt> and export them, but not put them in any header
[14:52] <pitti> variables are writable outside, though
[14:53] <pitti> or that, yes
[14:53] <pitti> so gdb can see them, but not C code
[14:53] <desrt> right
[14:53] <desrt> if someone wants to do something very evil from C, of course they could
[14:53] <desrt> but... srsly?
[14:53] <pitti> well, there is very little that you can't do from C :)
[14:53] <desrt> (although i shouldn't speak... glib was doing the same evil thing to lib until your patch)
[14:54] <desrt> *to libc
[14:55] <pitti> so, a new exported variable sounds like a clean solution to me; opening fds, defining a new signal number (424242) or messing in /proc/ all seem like gross hacks to me
[14:55] <desrt> okay.  i'll do that, then
[14:56] <desrt> i also need to figure out how we will handle being run under gdb in the future when we want this feature on-by-default
[14:56] <pitti> desrt: how would that be a probleM?
[14:56] <desrt> since fork()ing on a critical under gdb is .... not helpful
[14:56] <pitti> oh, right
[14:56] <desrt> maybe we can detect gdb somehow
[14:56] <desrt> we already have code to detect valgrind
[14:56] <pitti> I was going to say, gdb intercepts the signals, but I forgot about the fork
[14:57] <pitti> desrt: can you tell whether you are being ptraced?
[14:57] <desrt> i suppose we could try ptracing ourselves and see if that fails =)
[14:57] <desrt> although this is going to work very badly on ubuntu
[14:58] <desrt> since upstart does its cgroups-in-userspace by using ptrace to watch the fork() calls that the processes that it spawns are doing
[14:58] <desrt> so we may mistakenly conclude that we are under a debugger when we're not
[15:01] <pitti> hm, I wonder whether a process under gdb has prctl(PR_GET_DUMPABLE) == false, but I guess not
[15:01] <pitti> (as it's already being traced)
[15:01] <desrt> indeed
[15:01] <desrt> gdb can just intercept the signal at the ptrace level
[15:01] <desrt> and the process never gets a chance to dump
[15:01] <desrt> i wonder if upstart has any plans to move to using cgroups...
[15:02] <desrt> because checking if you're under ptrace is really the best way...
[15:02] <desrt> and what upstart is currently doing is a pretty bad hack
[15:02] <pitti> (gdb) call prctl(3,0,0,0,0)
[15:02] <pitti> $1 = 1
[15:02] <pitti> yep, so we can't use PR_GET_DUMPABLE
[15:03] <desrt> some discussion on the topic from scott: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/upstart-devel/2012-May/001877.html
[15:03] <desrt> doesn't look like it went anywhere, though
[15:03] <desrt> also a blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-upstart-overcome-ptrace-limitations
[15:04] <bcurtiswx> hmm, why is my saucy box trying to install wayland ?
[15:04] <bcurtiswx> :P
[15:05] <bcurtiswx> well actually, it fails to install those
[15:05] <Laney> I bet it's trying to upgrade it
[15:05] <bcurtiswx> hrmm
[15:05] <Laney> and don't run with -proposed
[15:06] <Laney> (gtk already depended on libwayland in raring)
[15:07] <bcurtiswx> Laney, is using -proposed broken right now?
[15:07] <Laney> You shouldn't ever be using -proposed in the development release
[15:07] <Laney> it's for computers not people
[15:08] <bcurtiswx> Laney, interesting that i never knew that. thanks
[15:08] <pitti>  bcurtiswx: yeah; almost by definition, stuff in -proposed is guaranteed to be broken
[15:08] <Laney> (not that anything automatic would have caught that upgrade failure)
[15:09] <pitti> because as soon as it stops being broken, it moves to saucy
[15:09] <Laney> (luckily I /am/ running proposed in an lxc container so noticed it)
[15:11] <bcurtiswx> well, hopefully I keep that as my only oops moment for today :P
[15:17] <bcurtiswx> i see the changes in unity. but when i left click an icon after clicking my ubuntu icon on top it opens up the info instead of just loading the app
[15:18] <tedg> Anyone getting crashes in unity-panel-service?
[15:18] <Laney> bcurtiswx: same
[15:18] <Laney> please report it!
[15:18] <tedg> Looking at it now, but I had to rename the binary to make my machine usable.
[15:18] <bcurtiswx> ok will do
[15:18] <bcurtiswx> unity package right?
[15:20] <Laney> sounds like a good place to start
[15:20] <sil2100> tedg: crashes?
[15:20] <tedg> sil2100, Yes
[15:20] <sil2100> tedg: we noticed a crash in unity-panel-service when indicator-network was installed
[15:21] <sil2100> tedg: but it was a type of crash that 'was breaking the panel infinitely'
[15:22] <tedg> Hmm, I do have it installed.  perhaps removing it would make it usable for a bit.
[15:22] <bcurtiswx> Laney is that called the dash?
[15:23] <bcurtiswx> im not up on my official terms (i should be)
[15:23] <tedg> sil2100, Cool, that fixed it.  And shows where the error is :-)
[15:23] <Laney> bcurtiswx: yeah
[15:23] <sil2100> tedg: ;)
[15:23] <sil2100> tedg: could you take a look at that?
[15:24] <tedg> larsu, What's blocking the new .indicator loading?  I'm not sure fixing the old indicator-ng is worth it with updates in the pipe.
[15:25] <larsu> tedg: nothing. Didn't it get merged yet?
[15:25]  * larsu checks
[15:25] <larsu> jenkins complained, and you set it to approve but it didn't autoland
[15:26] <larsu> is libindicator not set up for that?
[15:26] <larsu> anyway, I'll merge it manually
[15:26] <bcurtiswx> Laney, bug #1188656
[15:26] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1188656 in unity (Ubuntu) "Left clicking on Unity dash icons acts the same as right clicking" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188656
[15:26] <larsu> tedg: thanks for the reminder
[15:26] <tedg> larsu, Hmm, I thought it was...
[15:26] <tedg> larsu, Grab the ido branch as well :-)
[15:29] <larsu> tedg: that one was merged, no?
[15:29] <tedg> larsu, I was meaning call-ido-init in libindicator.
[15:29] <larsu> tedg: ah, right. Will do!
[15:33] <sil2100> cyphermox: ping
[15:34] <Laney> bcurtiswx: ty
[15:34] <Laney> keyboard works well btw
[15:34] <bcurtiswx> Laney, yw
[15:34] <cyphermox> sil2100: sup
[15:34] <Laney> ooh, my git svn clone of glib is getting close to finishing
[15:34] <Laney> only 2 days later
[15:34] <sil2100> cyphermox: hello! I have a question ;)
[15:34] <sil2100> cyphermox: siiince, hm, I checked the FAQ and I wanted to re-deploy a stack
[15:35] <cyphermox> sil2100: can you please get to the point?
[15:35] <sil2100> cyphermox: but besides using the cu2d-update-stack it is said there to ping some archive admin
[15:35] <cyphermox> oh right
[15:35] <sil2100> cyphermox: is that still required?
[15:35] <cyphermox> yeah, if you add a package, you need to ask someone to update some rsync file on lillypilly as far as I know
[15:36] <cyphermox> didrocks should have been well aware of the details :)
[15:36] <sil2100> Yes, he's gone now - since I think I need to redeploy the platform stack, as I need dbus-cpp-dev to get a merge in
[15:36] <sil2100> But that stack adds new packages right now
[15:37] <larsu> tedg: done
[15:38] <sil2100> cyphermox: so, should I wait for didrocks for the stack redeployment, or maybe you would be able to help in some way?
[15:38] <cyphermox> I'm not an archive admin ... I can't do it
[15:38] <cyphermox> seb128: ?
[15:39] <tedg> larsu, Great, hopefully that'll fix this indicator-network issue.
[15:39] <sil2100> On second thought
[15:39] <larsu> tedg: oops, test suite doesn't pass. I'll have a fix before the daily merge ;)
[15:39] <seb128> cyphermox, what do you need?
[15:39] <sil2100> I think I'll try getting it in somehow else, since once it's redeployed, it will automatically get auto-released daily
[15:40] <sil2100> cyphermox, seb128: so maybe for now let's leave things as they are
[15:40] <cyphermox> seb128: ... sil2100 needs some cu2d stuff fixed up
[15:40] <seb128> cyphermox, why do you need and archive admin for that?
[15:40] <cyphermox> sil2100: you shouldn't have to need any of this unless you add a project
[15:40] <cyphermox> seb128: ask didrocks, there is some file that needs to be updated apparently
[15:40] <sil2100> cyphermox: there are some projects added, since I see dbus-cpp added and location-service
[15:41] <sil2100> seb128: yes, at least the FAQ says so!
[15:41] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#Adding.2BAC8-removing_components_to_a_stack
[15:41] <sil2100> But for now I think I'll stay clear of that
[15:42] <seb128> ok
[16:06] <pitti> bonsoir tout le monde, profiter du week-end !
[16:09] <tedg> attente, So I've now got unity-gtk2-module from the repos and xchat-gnome isn't exporting its menus anymore.
[16:09] <tedg> attente, Is that known?
[16:11] <attente> tedg, not known, looking into it
[16:12] <attente> tedg, are you getting the double menu bar problem?
[16:12] <Laney> it's the same gtk2 problem isn't it?
[16:12] <attente> Laney, appears so
[16:12] <Laney> seb just uploaded for that
[16:13] <attente> ok, cool, thanks Laney
[16:15] <tedg> Ah, yes, I didn't check up top when it was in the app.
[16:16] <attente> tedg, yeah, sorry about that, that was a known problem after all
[16:23] <Bubbles> any way to get medibuntu to work on a fresh reload of lucid?
[16:30] <ogra> would probably be clever to ask this in a medibuntu channel somewhere :)
[16:47] <desrt> pitti, tedg: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701800
[16:47] <ubot2`> Gnome bug 701800 in general "a new approach to reporting critical errors" [Normal,New]
[16:49] <tedg> desrt, Probably should do it on LOG_LEVEL_ERROR as well.
[16:49] <desrt> tedg: error will always abort
[16:49] <desrt> so we don't need to
[16:50] <tedg> desrt, Ah, okay.
[16:53] <bschaefer> Sarvatt, hey, thanks for pushing new versions up of unity up to that ppa :)
[16:59] <bcurtiswx> mhr3, re: bug #1188656, why would people have to one-click the left bar icons to open them but double-click dash icons to open them? What was the rationale for making it double-click now?
[16:59] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1188656 in unity (Ubuntu) "Left clicking on Unity dash icons acts the same as right clicking" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188656
[17:00] <mhr3> bcurtiswx, you're targetting your questions at wrong person
[17:00] <mhr3> bcurtiswx, design wanted, so we made it so
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> mhr3, interesting. thanks :)
[17:01] <mhr3> bcurtiswx, feel free to mail to unity-design :)
[17:02] <bcurtiswx> mhr3, would that be better than commenting in the bug?
[17:02] <bschaefer> bcurtiswx, hmm left clicking a launcher icon opens it if its not opened, or focuses the last focused window...
[17:03] <bschaefer> mhr3, o it was a design change?
[17:03] <bschaefer> geez
[17:04] <bcurtiswx> im in slight shock, actually, thats a pretty big change IMO
[17:05] <mhr3> bschaefer, yep
[17:05] <mhr3> anyway, /me out
[17:05] <bschaefer> mhr3, have a good weekend :)
[17:05] <bcurtiswx> good weekend mhr3
[17:05] <bschaefer> also yay for smart scopes :)


[11:10] <saifheld> Hello all
[11:11] <saifheld> I've an innocent question, after downloading the branch and all that stuff, if I wanna start translating, what should I do?


[00:27] <th3pr0ph3t> Ubuntu Studio needs a guided tour: when I first booted Ubuntu Studio I asked myself: "Now what do I do with all this?" -- of course the knowledge base is there but there should be something friendlier. Is someone already working on this? Can I help?
[00:29] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: We'd love to get more people involved in working on things like that. We don't really have anyone working on user documentation, and what we have on the website is not edited very often http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/
[00:30] <zequence> There is a structure laid out for a written user guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide
[00:30] <zequence> We've had plans for making videos
[00:30] <zequence> And, adding something to the ISO itself
[00:30] <th3pr0ph3t> :O
[00:31] <zequence> All we really need is for someone to create some material. We can host stuff on our website, or on the ISO. Depending on the format, and so on
[00:31] <th3pr0ph3t> and are there some rules on how to extend, the information in there?
[00:32] <zequence> There's really just what you see at the moment
[00:32] <zequence> I did the structure for the user guide sometime last year, but you don't really know what is best until you start working on it
[00:33] <zequence> I also did the feature tour for the website, but that was really more of completing it in order for us to be able to publish the new website (you might have seent he older one, which was quite different)
[00:34] <th3pr0ph3t> Yes, I returned to ubuntu studio after a few years and saw many changes
[00:34] <th3pr0ph3t> maybe in a few days I could add something that could work as a starter guide for inkscape, maybe?
[00:35] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: Don't forget that there may be good tutorials already out there. Maybe all you need is to add links to them, and making the links pretty
[00:36] <zequence> It's best to try make use of existing material as much as possible.
[00:36] <zequence> But, some really basic introductions aren't wrong of course
[00:36] <zequence> Especially if it's more in the line of introducint Ubuntu Studio rather than specific applications
[00:37] <zequence> The user guide should focus mostly on Ubuntu Studio specific stuff, and point towards other sources whenever there already is something ready out there
[00:38] <zequence> The main focus when it comes to applications is probably from a workflow point of view. And that could involve not only one, but a multitude of applications
[00:38] <th3pr0ph3t> that's true... :/
[00:39] <zequence> That is also something I mention on the User Guide structure
[00:39] <zequence> Some kind of intro to common tasks an artist/producer would do, and what applications they could use for that
[00:39] <zequence> So, it would be like a short introduction on what you can do with Ubuntu Studio
[00:40] <zequence> One could combine that with videos
[00:40] <th3pr0ph3t> It would be nice if those introductions to each set of tools looked the same: same visual style instead of links to external tutorials..
[00:41] <zequence> I would avoid getting into details. Just a quick run through of some of the features
[00:41] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: Well, if you are up for the work, then you are free to do it :)
[00:42] <th3pr0ph3t> I think I'll just stay on the channel until there's something I can do to help
[00:42] <zequence> The problem with large documentation is that few people have the time to complete it
[00:44] <zequence> So, to be able to get the docs to be as all encompassing as possible, it's much smarter to make the docs be a gateway to other information portals for the detailed stuff
[00:44] <zequence> And only put energy on creating clearly Ubuntu Studio specific  documentation, that couldn't be found elsewhere
[00:45] <th3pr0ph3t> yet ubuntu studio is overwhelming, it has a lot of tools and it would be nice if it took the user by the hand to give the first steps, then tell him: there are more tutorials over there, go.
[00:46] <zequence> Exactly
[00:46] <th3pr0ph3t> I felt overwhelmed with the audio tools, of which I don't know much
[00:46] <zequence> There's a problem with the audio workflow. It's too complicated. Docs is one way to solve it. Another is to simplify it by developing it further
[00:48] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: One of the tasks none of us really has the time for (or interest), is to take an entire workflow, such as audio, or graphics, or video, and only work at researching what applications exist, what we should include, and if the applications are working the way they should (built with the correct features)
[00:49] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: In fact, the only time you can clearly get someone to very simply tell you what you could help out with is when it is time to do testing. But, that is only a couple of times before each release
[00:49] <zequence> The rest of the time, it's really up to each individual, to focus on some task, and work independently
[00:50] <zequence> ..with the feedback and assistance from fellow team members of course
[00:50] <th3pr0ph3t> alright, I'll make a habit to open xchat on this channel and stay tuned
[00:51] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: Great. I'm sure that if you stick around, you'll get the feeling for it
[06:15] <smartboyhw> holstein: Do you think the EOL announcement that I posted is good enough?
[06:15] <holstein> smartboyhw: sure
[06:15] <holstein> several people seem to have noticed it
[06:15] <smartboyhw> holstein: :)
[06:42] <smartboyhw> zequence: Can you post the EOL announcement as "Ubuntu Studio" and post it to the Ubuntu Studio Community please?
[08:01] <zequence> smartboyhw_: You should post in the user list too.
[08:02] <zequence> Really more interesting to users, since we don't do any direct support for those releases, and don't have to be adjusting our work at all based on which releases are currently supported
[08:05] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Which I did
[08:06] <smartboyhw_> I send to -users and -devel at the same time
[08:07] <zequence> Right you are
[08:07] <zequence> Seems like I've found a problem with my email filter
[08:07] <zequence> Or, rather, my email server :(
[08:07] <smartboyhw_> zequence: :(
[11:30] <TheresNogod> hi
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Hello TheresNogod
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Hello DarkEra
[11:32] <DarkEra> hi smartboyhw
[21:32] <zequence> kind of lonely in here.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFHzYlnDB_g
[21:37] <len-1304> :)  That bad ?
[21:42] <zequence> Oh, I'll survive..
[21:43] <jablo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=596qaxm-u4o ?
[21:43] <zequence> Just wondering where all our devs are at, but maybe there's a holiday I don't know, or I'm just crazy thinking people want to develop Ubuntu flavors on a friday
[21:44] <zequence> Nice cover
[21:45] <zequence> I took a step towards creating universal dev docs for flavors by drafting this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation/Scratchpad
[21:46] <zequence> Trying to find a nice format for it, so you can quickly get an overview if you're totally new to it, but also be able to find every little detail about any task you need to do
[21:46] <zequence> It's going to be multi paged later
[21:49] <zequence> Once I feel I have something substantial, I'll start poking different people, in other flavors and Ubuntu devs to give me some feedback
[21:50] <zequence> Don't think anyone has requested anything like this, but I'm hoping it might improve chances for more activity. Just wondering why in a world with so many billions of people, so few find their way to the most popular multimedia content production Linux distribution, and want to help
[21:51] <zequence> It's like one in a billion, isn't it?
[21:51] <zequence> All though, it's not fair to say that, since not everyone has a computer
[21:51] <zequence> Or, is the proper age, etc
[21:51] <zequence> It's still less than one in a million
[21:52] <jablo> Million to one chances crop of 9 times out of ten. Well-known fact.
[21:54] <zequence> jablo: Hi. Haven't seen your nick before, so I'm assuming you are new here? :)
[21:54] <jablo> I'm new on the forum. Listening in. Since there was quiet, I thought it ok to be just a tad off topic.
[21:56] <zequence> Yes, we aren't always very formal in here, mostly because there is less activity than on many other dev related channels
[21:56] <zequence> We don't really require an off topic channel, like many others have for that reason, I think
[21:57] <jablo> :)
[21:58] <jablo> In regards to "...why in a world with so many billions of people, so few find their way to the most popular multimedia content production Linux distribution..."... Between work, home, children, actually *using* ubuntu studio (and learning in the process), there's very little time to contribute :(
[21:59] <zequence> Better not get children, wives and try to avoid too much work :)
[21:59] <jablo> lol.
[21:59] <zequence> But, sure. Many people are in that hamster wheel
[22:02] <jablo> For me, I never did combine music and computers until recently (year or so). So learning DAW etc. has been quite enough computers (outside work). Did contribute some stack traces on the ardour list a while back, though. Not much, but hey :)
[22:04] <zequence> You are fast to contribute then. I started out using computers at around 2001 or so, and didn't begin to contribute until 2010 or so
[22:04] <zequence> But, I wasn't using Linux at first. The first Ubuntu Studio installation I did was at around 2008
[22:05] <jablo> I'm old (45). Been using computers "all my life" (since at the age of 12 I met a Z80 based computer).
[22:05] <jablo> just not for music.
[22:05] <zequence> You're probably younger than len-1304
[22:06] <zequence> Well, I was referring to when I started using the with music myself. All though, I was never a big computer user, my first interaction was with a Macintosh back in the 80s. 512kb RAM
[22:06] <zequence> I'm 35 myself
[22:06] <jablo> ah.
[22:07] <jablo> Ubuntu studio is just so nice!
[22:07] <zequence> The main reason I started learning stuff was because things weren't always working, and now I'm the project lead of Ubuntu Studio :P
[22:08] <jablo> !!!
[22:08] <zequence> Yes, Ubuntu Studio has had its ups and downs, but it really does fill a purpose
[22:09] <jablo> As long as there's a working lowlatency kernel. That's a must-have in my experience.
[22:09] <zequence> Yes, definitely
[22:09] <zequence> There was a -rt kernel in the past, but was not included with all releases
[22:10] <zequence> Finally, when the vanilla kernel included enough of the rt patch, a reconfigured -generic was good enough for low latency audio
[22:10] <zequence> So, that is when it was introduced
[22:10] <zequence> Originally maintained by Alessio Bogani
[22:11] <jablo> Yeh. Actually, I think it's more than 1year. Come to think of it, 2 or so at least; I remember I had a nice working setup on an old laptop, with working lolatency or -rt kernel. And a 2 port USB sound card. Taught me absolute basics of sound recording. Upgraded, then nothing worked and waited for months until suddenly there was a new -rt or lowlatency kernel.
[22:11] <zequence> But, nowadays maintained by me. And, things are rolling pretty well now. New stable release updates about every 3 weeks, in cadence with -generic
[22:11] <jablo> oh so you are my ubuntu-studio life saver. Thanks!
[22:12] <zequence> Well, I only took over the boring work, after the important things had already been done by others :)
[22:12] <zequence> I was involved in testing it, and propagating for it being included in the repositories, which I guess was important too
[22:12] <jablo> That's always how it seems I think. To the one doing the job, it's easy. Everyone else stands in awe.
[22:13] <zequence> Really, it's mostly just administrational work. Following bug reports, running a script, and then testing it to make sure it works
[22:13] <zequence> Anyone could do it, if they knew the right steps
[22:13] <zequence> The hard part is to set it up
[22:14] <jablo> Ye. The getting-started part. The "hello world" like learning curve.
[22:14] <zequence> Really, most of the work that is required to make Ubuntu Studio a great OS does not need any skills at all. Just a bit of time
[22:15] <zequence> Like choosing and testing applications. Reporting bugs, etc
[22:15] <zequence> Writing documentation, doing PR or user support, and so on
[22:16] <jablo> I'll hang around - even if I started out whining a bit before (time), I really would like to do something.
[22:16] <zequence> I've written up the maintenance procedure for the kernel here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/KernelMaintenance
[22:17] <zequence> jablo: You are welcome. And even if you only find time to do something for a few days, we'd be grateful
[22:18] <jablo> One thing that bothers (long explanation follows): I use 2 ICE1712 based sound cards, synchronized with spdif. I combine them into one virtual card with asoundrc. Works really well UNLESS i click "enable d-bus interface" in jack. Where the **** would I start looking for why that is a problem?
[22:19] <jablo> it seems jack ignores asoundrc virtual combined device when dbus interface is on
[22:19] <zequence> Oh, that is interesting
[22:19] <zequence> I have two ICE1712 card myself, and have only tried that once. Never needed them for that (I usually do multitracking at a friends studio, when recording drums)
[22:20] <zequence> When disabling dbus in qjackct, it really just means, you are starting jackd and not jackdbus
[22:21] <jablo> (nice write-up of kernel maintenance)
[22:21] <jablo> So it's a jackdbus question (for the #jack channel?)
[22:21] <zequence> jablo: I would ask people in #jack about this. Ask them, why are you not able to run both cards as one with jackdbus, when you can do it with jackd
[22:22] <zequence> jablo: Some information for you: to start jackd from the terminal: jackd <options>, to start jackdbus from the terminal, you use the script jack_control (in /usr/bin/jack_control), and you do: jack_control start
[22:24] <zequence> The kernel maintenance page probably does not work for anyone but myself now, as only I have access to my repos, but it's reflects how I do it
[22:25] <zequence> Come to think of that, I should start a project for Ubuntu Studio at github for things like this
[22:26] <jablo> zequence: I was just going to say that -
[22:29] <jablo> it's getting a but late, but I think I'll try your description soon. For ardour I ended up following instructions on the #ardour channel and compiled lv2-1.2.0.tar.bz2, sratom-0.2.0.tar.bz2, lilv-0.14.4.tar.bz2, suil-0.6.10.tar.bz2, sord-0.8.0.tar.bz2 and ardour3 from git repository myself.
[22:29] <jablo> so my ardour runs more or less out of my home directory. Who does the ardour package for ubuntu studio?
[22:31] <zequence> jablo: All packages are done in Debian, which is where the package for ardour3 is being prepared
[22:31] <jablo> ah. of course
[22:31] <zequence> jablo: I've built it on my ppa. You can get it with: ppa:zequence/testing
[22:31] <zequence> It's not a permanent ppa, mind you
[22:31] <zequence> So, I would only use it once to install ardour, and then remove the ppa
[22:32] <zequence> To add the ppa: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:zequence/testing
[22:33] <zequence> Afterwards, you can delete it from /etc/apt/sources.d/
[22:33] <jablo> I don't remember why I ended up downloading and compilling all those extra tarballs - probably they were needed to compile (as opposed to merely running) ardour. So you build a dist of ardour3 regularly?
[22:35] <jablo> Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/zequence/testing/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found
[22:35] <Len-nb> jablo, some people have found starting jackd(bus) with one card and using zita-aj for the second works a lot better.
[22:37] <jablo> Lan-nb: Would zita-aj still do some resampling even if I keep the two cards on sync with spdif ?
[22:38] <jablo> Len-nb: What I mean is - zita-aj seems like a software solution to synchronizing the cards, which I can do much better in hardware. And thus would prefer.
[22:38] <Len-nb> In the current incarnation yes.
[22:38] <Len-nb> The author has talked about doing a straight through version
[22:38] <Len-nb> or switch.
[22:39] <Len-nb> Maybe if enough people bug him about it will actually get done :)
[22:39] <jablo> hehe
[22:39] <jablo> Not shure I'm in a bugging position. eh.
[22:40] <zequence> jablo: Ah, I only have raring packages there :(
[22:40] <Len-nb> Fons is on the LAU mailing list, you could ask there.
[22:40] <jablo> zequence: sry. I can't fnd my way aound these animal-version names. Raring being...?
[22:40] <zequence> jablo: 13.04, the latest release
[22:41] <jablo> Hehe. NOw we get to the other reason I started to hang around here... to spy on others having done the upgrade, and hear about the results. Sounds like I have an upgrade coming.
[22:42] <zequence> heck, we'll all be running 13.10 soon
[22:42] <zequence> But, not as production machines :)
[22:43] <jablo> production... production... music'ing etc. is my hobby. there's not a production machine in sight here.
[22:43] <jablo> Oh well, I'll take a backup of my home dir and start the upgrade before (going to sleep anyway now, yawn).
[22:43] <Len-nb> jablo, Apparently pcm-multi is not working so well right now. You are not the first person to have problems with two indentical cards
[22:44] <jablo> Len-nb: it's been a while since I last used my cad in combo.
[22:45] <Len-nb> I have only one card (a D66) so I have not ever tried to set it up
[22:46] <Len-nb> I keep thinking it would be nice to have a 1010 or two, but the reality is I rarely even use two channels right now.
[22:48] <jablo> Len-nb: well, it was "easy" (following a link, I can dig it out again); once I figured out the dbus/non-dbus problem. It just works I use the combined device to record my band when we practice (7 mics drums, 1 bass, 1 guitar, 2 keyb, 1 vocal). Using the built-in mixer we get 0-latency and quite a decent recording. There's some bleeding between drums and vocal. But it's for practising, so...
[22:49] <Len-nb> I only have 6 mics anyway. I might be able to mic a drum kit....
[22:50] <jablo> Oh - we used 3 mics for the drums the fist 2 times... then he went and bought a set of mics to mount.
[22:52] <Len-nb> using zita-aj I could get up to 8 channels, but then I run out of mic preamps too. So upgrading starts to get pricey quick.
[22:55] <jablo> My cards each have 2 preamps, drummer had 1 already, guitarist had a dual, we have an older 6 channel mixer too which amounts to 1 preamp, I use "effect send" on the bass amplifier. Guitarist has a multifunction board and its output level is ok for recording. So it just barely works out. Could get pricey though.
[23:00] <jablo> I have a couple of extra preamps on my borthday/christmas present wish list. sigh.
[23:02] <jablo> well, it's linux upgrading time and  I wont' sit here looking at the download. Be back tomorrow.
[23:18] <zequence> Yay, another one man team https://github.com/ubuntustudio-kernel
[23:20] <DarkEra> zequence ----> the one man army :D
[23:22] <zequence> DarkEra: I started sketching on a more thoroguh documentation for flavor developers https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation/Scratchpad
[23:23] <zequence> Still just a sketch, but hoping it might be helpful
[23:23] <DarkEra> going to have a look :)
[23:45] <DarkEra> zequence, wow, nice work you've done there so far
[23:47] <DarkEra> a lot of useful stuff to read that i will dive into


[07:24]  * Cheri703 is trying to stay up later so can acclimate to upcoming work schedule
[07:25] <Cheri703> also: purell and reaching into a tortilla chip bag are both equally efficient at locating cuts on knuckles...


[01:20] <n-iCe> it's incredible.
[01:20] <n-iCe> There is no faster distro than lubuntu.
[01:20] <n-iCe> I mean, using a DE
[04:12] <sseche> hi everybody
[04:12] <sseche> i just install latest Lubuntu and i'm having a little issue that can't find a solution to it
[04:12] <sseche> when i launch an app, like firefox or whatever, i don't get any busy icon during those 3 or 4 seconds
[04:12] <sseche> how can i fix or enable this ?
[04:30] <ianorlin> sseche I think you are having a startup notify problem
[04:31] <ianorlin> I think if you mess up ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml has something to do with it
[04:31] <sseche> is a fresh lubuntu installation
[04:32] <sseche> without changing anything, everything default
[04:34] <sseche> i'm seeing lubuntu-rc.xml
[04:34] <sseche> ianorlin, what should i look for ?
[04:35] <ianorlin> hmnm if everything is default that won't help
[04:37] <sseche> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2311112
[04:37] <sseche> found that
[04:38] <sseche> i will run all the updates
[04:38] <sseche> and see if something changes
[08:39] <|ZNC|MiniVorap> Thinkpad edge not detecting network interfaces what to do???
[08:44] <Jakey3> is there a way to change the desktop tabs order?
[08:49] <|ZNC|MiniVorap> I can't find any network interfaces on my Thinkpad edge!1! pls helps
[09:10] <hateball> |ZNC|MiniVorap: what does "lspci" say?
[09:10] <hateball> !paste | |ZNC|MiniVorap
[09:16] <|ZNC|MiniVorap> Oh sorry hateball, I was at lunch
[09:17] <Jakey3> is there a way to change the order of the windows list
[10:59] <CasW> Is it true that Lubuntu 16.04 requires OpenGL 2.1 or higher? I tried installing it on my netbook (Intel Atom N450, Intel GMA 3150 (OpenGL 2.0)), and it doesn't boot properly, here's the last part of Xorg.0.log: http://pastebin.com/98xuSYMY
[11:00] <CasW> I have been able to boot into the graphical shell using recovery mode, and I have installed the newest drivers
[11:18] <phil42> don't know
[13:44] <traceur920> Hi, I have random session crashes and a log from Xorg, can somebody help?
[13:44] <hateball> !paste | traceur920
[13:47] <traceur920> that's the log http://paste.ubuntu.com/16080512/
[14:50] <avo> Greetings. Does Lubuntu have a terminal I can cut and paste into, or is that a limitation of LXDE?
[14:59] <leszek> lxterminal has copy and paste possibility. I am not aware if there is any terminal emulator that has a cut option however
[15:02] <avo> ok thanx
[15:06] <avo> I just installed Lubuntu. When it first boots, there's text on the screen that says the resolution is not supported, then it boots into Lubuntu.
[15:08] <avo> What I think it's doing is timing-out at the grub screen. How can I change the grub screen resolution, if indeed, thats my problem.
[15:21] <n-iCe> hi
[15:29] <krytarik> avo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Setup#Configuring_GRUB_2
[15:30] <avo> krytarik: Thanks. I just downloaded the grub-doc package and I'll have a look there, too.
[15:31] <n-iCe> I was fighting with grub yesterday
[15:31] <n-iCe> Make a Windows 10 usb bootable image.
[15:31] <avo> I'm really impressed with how well Lubuntu runs on an old P4 1 gig.
[15:32] <n-iCe> avo: is awesome, I use it in a i3 8GB ram
[15:33] <avo> You'll go too fast and enter another dimension!
[15:38] <sseche> so can i fix  the 'busy' icon while loading an app to appear ?
[15:39] <sseche> cause i'm on latest version of lubuntu and busy icon doesn't show
[15:40] <n-iCe> busy icon?
[15:43] <sseche> when you double click a shorcut icon, let's say firefox
[15:43] <sseche> the cursor icon has to change so some kind of clock or waiting icon
[15:43] <sseche> so you know that the app is loading
[15:44] <sseche> on my end i don't have any clue if i double click it correct or no
[15:44] <sseche> because no busy icon loads, always de cursor
[15:44] <n-iCe> but it should open almost
[15:44] <n-iCe> immediately
[15:44] <n-iCe> lubuntu is that fast
[15:45] <n-iCe> no need to 'busy' icon
[15:45] <sseche> i need
[15:45] <sseche> firefox is 4 or 5 seconds
[15:46] <n-iCe> well, no idea
[15:46] <n-iCe> haha
[15:47] <n-iCe> have never think abotu it
[16:52] <n-iCe> h
[16:52] <n-iCe> hi
[18:14] <onlnr> I am trying to make an association to open with a program. what is the lxde's handlers name I wonder
[18:15] <onlnr> gnome has gconf for example
[18:21] <leszek> onlnr: don't know what you mean exactly all the desktops use xdg standard for mimetypes
[18:21] <onlnr> I am reading that xdg-open redirects the request to the DE's handler
[18:22] <onlnr> http://askubuntu.com/questions/62585/how-do-i-set-a-new-xdg-open-setting
[18:22] <onlnr> my chrome runs xdg-open when I click this acestream:// link I want to associate to acestream
[18:24] <onlnr> if I need to edit the ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list with lxde, I wonder what would be the mimetype and the .desktop file. I have 4 different acestream related .desktop files but none of them exactly sounds like the right one
[18:26] <leszek> yeah mimeapps.list is the right place. When it comes to acestream I don't have any clue never used that app
[19:54] <mikubuntu> is it possible to upgrade lubuntu directly from 14.04 to 16.04?
[19:56] <Unit193> Sure, though it won't prompt you until the first point release.
[19:57] <genii> mikubuntu: You were already told about !ltsupgrade in other channels
[20:01] <mikubuntu> genii: no i just heard from nacc about it -- i probably missed some replies when i was knocked offline here at home
[20:01] <genii> Ah, probably.
[20:04] <mikubuntu> still trying to figure out how to set upgrade prefs on lubuntu, anybody have a clue?


[01:27] <Unit193> acheronuk: https://bugs.debian.org/877960
[06:54] <ivaat> hi
[06:55] <ivaat> installing my own 3.14.5 from source breaks with missing aes-x86_64.ko http://paste.ubuntu.com/25698069/
[06:55] <ivaat> ido have libssl installed as well
[06:55] <ivaat> what could i be missing
[10:48] <arunkumar413_> is this the official ubuntu development channel/
[10:50] <KristoferV> Hi, I have a Mx Master and I failed to follow the guide from Arch wiki. Probably, because I have no idea how to configure xbindkeys. Is anyone willing to help me? Got an answer on #ubuntu to come here.
[10:57] <ivaat> hi KristoferV
[10:57] <KristoferV> hi..
[10:57] <ikonia> KristoferV: how is this a development problem ?
[10:58] <ikonia> no-one told you to come here for support that I saw ?
[10:58] <ikonia> #ubuntu is the correct place for ubuntu support #archlinux is the correct linux for problems with the archlinux documentation
[10:58] <KristoferV> i am on ubuntu..
[10:59] <KristoferV> I can head there then and annoy those people then?
[10:59] <ikonia> right so #ubuntu is the place for ubuntu upport, #archlinux is where you should be if you're having problems with the archlinux documentation
[10:59] <KristoferV> gonna go there then
[12:02] <arunkumar413_> is UUID present in all computers bios chip
[22:05] <jbicha> cjwatson: can you look into why desktop-common hasn't been updated at https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/platform.artful/
[22:05] <jbicha> I pushed the update to bzr on Friday
[22:32] <hwpplayer1>  jbicha: what's wrong with that ?
[22:42] <jbicha> hwpplayer1: it's out of date and it looks like it's used by the kubuntu-meta update script which I need to run
[22:47] <hwpplayer1> jbicha : Does it have a source code
[22:48] <jbicha> it's supposed to be a http mirror of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.artful
[22:49] <hwpplayer1> jbicha : i see


[12:35] <FrogCast> hey all what version of qt is ubuntu+1 using?
[12:38] <\9> !info qt5-default artful