[15:00] <rbalint> o/
[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:01] <cyphermox> o/
[15:03] <tdaitx> \o
[15:03]  * slangasek waves
[15:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 12 15:03:40 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:04] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
[15:04] <slangasek> mwhudson rbalint sil2100 rcj cyphermox Odd_Bloke bdmurray philroche doko xnox juliank fginther slangasek infinity tdaitx
[15:04] <slangasek> rbalint: hi
[15:05] <rbalint> * wrote blog post http://balintreczey.hu/blog/run-ubuntu-on-windows-even-multiple-releases-in-parallel/
[15:05] <rbalint> * prepared many unattended-upgrades fixed and SRUd
[15:05] <rbalint> * SRUd gce-compute-image-packages
[15:06] <rbalint> * lot of unattended-upgrades testing
[15:06] <rbalint> (done)
[15:06] <sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
[15:06] <sil2100> - New kernel SRU re-spin cycle for 4.15
[15:06] <sil2100> - Translation updates:
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Copied langpacks to xenial-proposed for .5
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Testing reported regressions, investigated the issue, l-o-m generated erroneous PPA packages for some reason
[15:06] <sil2100>     (history shows it's not the first time)
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Requested a re-export, re-generated and re-uploaded packages, re-sent call-for-testing
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Requested a full translation export for bionic (decision has been made to update -base's for 18.04.1)
[15:06] <sil2100> - Iterated on the security-britney instance
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Things work after some hacks, now just waiting for IS for getting it public
[15:06] <sil2100> - Fixing tests in the ubuntu-image cross-compilation PR to correctly mock qemu-user-static in find_executable
[15:06] <sil2100> - grub dual EFI/BIOS:
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Finalized verification of the packages, grub2-signed and shim-signed released
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Got poked by Steve about a serious regression introduced in installs with old isos
[15:06] <sil2100>   * Re-added missing dependency change, fast-tracked it to bionic-updates with Steve
[15:06] <sil2100> - Some poking around about 16.04.5 stuff
[15:07] <sil2100> - core18 minor PR reviews
[15:07] <sil2100> (done)
[15:07] <rcj> rcj:
[15:07] <gaughen> o/
[15:07] <rcj> rcj:
[15:07] <rcj> * working on bionic daily build failures
[15:07] <rcj> * proposed disabling unused checksum calculation in livecd-rootfs
[15:07] <rcj> * cloud-image partner work
[15:07] <rcj> (done)
[15:08] <cyphermox> - coaching Eickmeyer (ubuntu-studio) for uploads (calf)
[15:08] <cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] netplan.io release 0.39
[15:08] <cyphermox> - debugging weird PE32 header issues between shim/grub/edk2
[15:08] <cyphermox> y- review/sponsor fix for zfs in mkinitramfs (bug LP: #1661629)
[15:08] <cyphermox> - convert triggers: dovecot, fusiondirectory
[15:08] <cyphermox> - sru verfiication
[15:08] <cyphermox> (done)
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> * MINIMAL IMAGE LAUNCH *airhorns*
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> * Work for existing partners
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> * Engagement with new partners around their images
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> * Work to improve our lxd testing, which has a couple of warts
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> * Preparation for sprint next week
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> (done)
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> bdmurray:
[15:09] <bdmurray> encountered and reported Traceback when upgrading to Cosmic (LP: #1780501)
[15:09] <bdmurray> investigation in vte2.91 regression of Vte.Terminal.feed_child() LP: #1780501
[15:09] <bdmurray> SRU verification for Artful and Bionic of LP: #1768379
[15:09] <bdmurray> investigation into autopkgtest failures "triggered" by python3-defaults SRU
[15:09] <bdmurray> learned about retry-autopkgtest-regressions and used it for python3-defaults issues
[15:09] <bdmurray> tested mojo spec version of Errors Launchpad integration (not good)
[15:09] <bdmurray> updated daisy code to handle lp_use_staging being a string, commented on RT to get it updated
[15:09] <bdmurray> reported bug re deb to snap transition (LP: #1780841)
[15:09] <bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU for 18.04 fixing inhibitIdle and adding deb2snap transition
[15:09] <bdmurray> discussion regarding handling of noawait transitions
[15:09] <bdmurray> uploaded yorick, xpdf, and a ⛴ load more noawait SRUs for 16.04 (LP: #1780996)
[15:09] <bdmurray> review of smoser software-properties MP
[15:09] <bdmurray> SRU verification, upgrades from X and A, of LP: #1775660
[15:09] <bdmurray> worked on some of SRU verification of LP: #1780841 (🕷4 found)
[15:09] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:10] <slangasek> philroche is off
[15:10] <bdmurray> doko: ?
[15:10] <slangasek> doko is off
[15:10] <doko> on vacation
[15:10] <slangasek> xnox is off
[15:10] <doko> see you next week ....
[15:10] <slangasek> juliank:
[15:10] <juliank> * debugged mariadb hanging on arm64; blocking autopkgtests for itself and rdeps
[15:10] <juliank> * apt, python-apt point releases
[15:10] <juliank> * further work on grub postinst signature check
[15:10] <juliank> * a ton of trigger fixes
[15:10] <juliank> * a bit of launchpad api learning and adding missing tasks to the trigger bug (LP forgot to add them)...
[15:10] <juliank> (done)
[15:11] <slangasek> fginther:
[15:11] <fginther> * Out for 2 half days
[15:11] <fginther> * Working on cloud-init changes to disable ssh for users other then root
[15:11] <fginther>   * Added unit tests to cover the pre-existing code
[15:11] <fginther>   * Building images to test in real clouds
[15:11] <fginther> * Support release of minimal images with testing and publication fixes
[15:11] <fginther> * Manual testing of an updated partner image
[15:11] <fginther> ✔ done
[15:14] <slangasek>  * prep for next week's midcycle sprint
[15:14] <slangasek>  * worked on getting the POWER7 machines getting decommissioned
[15:14] <slangasek>  * interviewing candidates for a product manager role
[15:14] <slangasek>  * SRU, NEW reviews
[15:14] <slangasek>  * code reviews
[15:14] <slangasek>  * misc proposed-migration handling; there are still a lot of packages waiting in -proposed, but no more major transitions currently in progress and the backlog is way down, time for someone to start another transition
[15:14] <slangasek>  * upcoming
[15:14] <slangasek>   * off tomorrow (travel swap), in Montreal next week
[15:14] <slangasek> (done)
[15:14] <tdaitx> hmm, no infinity...
[15:14] <slangasek> tdaitx:
[15:14] <tdaitx> Short week: sick since the weekend, mostly out on Monday, slow going Tue & Wed
[15:14] <tdaitx> * lshw update + sru (LP: #1752523)
[15:14] <tdaitx> * working on openjdk-8 & openjdk-10 security updates
[15:14] <tdaitx> Other:
[15:14] <tdaitx> - taking evening language classes for the next 2 weeks (might affect my availability for the late team meetings)
[15:14] <tdaitx> (done)
[15:15] <cyphermox> tdaitx: yay lshw uploads!
[15:16] <slangasek> tdaitx: studying haskell? croatian?
[15:16] <tdaitx> and for some reason lshw does make my laptop freeze up
[15:16] <slangasek> :)
[15:16] <slangasek> oh my
[15:17] <sil2100> 'I speak fluently Python'
[15:17] <tdaitx> slangasek: hah, no, just german
[15:17] <slangasek> ok, any other questions on status?
[15:17] <sil2100> Python seems like a bad language for speaking, especially with all the whitespaces mattering that much
[15:17] <cyphermox> slangasek: product maanger role for Foundations or in general?
[15:18] <slangasek> cyphermox: in "general"
[15:18] <cyphermox> ack
[15:20] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:20] <slangasek> bdmurray: ?
[15:20] <bdmurray> bug 1258597 popped up on my radar again
[15:21] <bdmurray> It seems a lot of people are bothered by it and it seems easy to fix
[15:22] <cyphermox> zug zug
[15:22] <cyphermox> (I'll upload the fix right away)
[15:22] <slangasek> what is the fix? to edit existing config files?
[15:23] <bdmurray> I'm sure commentor #45 will appreciate it
[15:23] <cyphermox> well, for one thing to not build from a default that has an invalid option
[15:23] <cyphermox> as for editing the existing config files, that's much much harder.
[15:23] <slangasek> ah ok
[15:23] <slangasek> just checking the scope
[15:23] <bdmurray> Could we fix it for 18.04.1?
[15:23] <cyphermox> I'm thinking fixing the default will already help
[15:23] <slangasek> yeah, sounds good. cyphermox you're saying you're taking it out of cycle?  if you're SRUing it we should still probably track it?
[15:24] <cyphermox> slangasek: I'll card and all of that
[15:24] <cyphermox> bdmurray: should be feasible, no other SRU in flight from the look of it
[15:25] <slangasek> I'll go ahead and card it
[15:25] <bdmurray> Okay, moving on. Is there a spot for netboot bugs e.g. 1777474
[15:25] <bdmurray> bug 1777474
[15:25] <slangasek> "netinstall ISO" != "netboot"
[15:25] <cyphermox> what's netinstall iso?
[15:26] <slangasek> are they reporting it against netinstall or netboot?
[15:26] <cyphermox> against mini.iso
[15:28] <slangasek> yeah, I don't think that image is anything we should invest in
[15:28] <cyphermox> don't we have some people who do use it?
[15:28] <slangasek> if they were actually netbooting, that's a different matter
[15:28] <cyphermox> should be simple enough to include ca-certificates on the mini.iso
[15:29] <cyphermox> "simple enough" == making sure there's a udeb, and shipping the files it needs
[15:29] <slangasek> cyphermox: clearly we do, but if they want a supported experience they should use the ISOs that we advertise
[15:29] <cyphermox> slangasek: ok.
[15:29] <bdmurray> where should the bug go though?
[15:29] <slangasek> debian-installer
[15:30] <bdmurray> okay
[15:33] <bdmurray> Since we have a couple of SRU team members here could we talk about bug 1780501 and how to proceed.
[15:33] <slangasek> bdmurray: revert it all?
[15:34] <bdmurray> I think in Ubuntu 18.04 at least it should be reverted.
[15:34] <slangasek> so, +1
[15:34] <bdmurray> I think the first paragraph of comment #8 is an assumption.
[15:34] <bdmurray> See bug 1779015 where a project had to change because the SRU
[15:35] <slangasek> developers are responsible for handling regressions introduced in SRUs
[15:36] <bdmurray> And the fix outlined in comment #4 shows how another package had to do version checking to cope with it too.
[15:38] <bdmurray> So it sounds like we are in agreement about fixing this for 18.04.
[15:38] <bdmurray> Bug 1778140 sounds bad but seems like it may be a corner case.
[15:40] <bdmurray> Any other opinions on that bug?
[15:40] <slangasek> bdmurray: I see Ted is replying to that bug; I think we should let upstream work this at the moment
[15:41] <slangasek> (we're not going to beat Ted T'so to resolving an e2fsprogs bug)
[15:41] <slangasek> s/'s/s'/
[15:41] <bdmurray> should we flag to keep an eye for rls-cc?
[15:43] <slangasek> bdmurray: unsure, you decide :)
[15:43] <bdmurray> I'll subscribe to it so we have an eye on it.
[15:44] <bdmurray> That's it from me.
[15:46] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:46] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:46] <cyphermox> yes
[15:46] <bdmurray> I'm out half of today and all of tomorrow
[15:47] <cyphermox> sil2100 and I would play Mahjong at the next sprint, we'd need two more players
[15:47] <cyphermox> asking in advance since it would be good to know rules beforehand
[15:47] <bdmurray> Is the one where the rules change every year?
[15:48] <cyphermox> the rules don't change every year in riichi mahjong (the japanese one, not the american one)
[15:48] <cyphermox> (that's all AOB for me)
[15:52] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:52] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 12 15:52:30 2018 UTC.
[15:52] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-12-15.03.moin.txt
[15:52] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[17:02] <wxl> !ops
[21:20] <tsimonq2> XD


[00:01] <Riddell> lex79: you failed to put your lucid proposed update in bzr then :)
[00:02] <lex79> Riddell: it's always your fault :P
[00:03] <lex79> Just kidding :)
[00:03] <lex79> btw it's in bzr now
[04:16]  * nigelb wonders what maco's been talking about me
[04:17] <nigelb> ooh, xkcd :)
[04:31] <nixternal> oi oi!
[04:52] <nigelb> hey nixternal !
[04:54] <nixternal> hola
[09:39] <Adri2000> hi
[09:41] <Adri2000> I've got a question about the kubuntu-default-settings package; it's possible that the answer is obvious, but I can't find it :) how does /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/gtk2-engines-qtcurve.rc.sh end up in ~/.kde/env/ ?
[09:44] <Riddell> Adri2000: we patch /usr/bin/startkde to copy it over
[09:45] <Riddell> not terribly elegant, but well, it's gtk
[09:47] <Adri2000> eheh :p so it's there, ok, thanks!
[10:53] <Riddell> agateau: hmm still getting some funny behaviour with menu widget
[10:53] <Riddell> I added it three times by accident and one of them picked up the menu ok
[10:53] <Riddell> then I removed two of them and the remaining one didn't pick up the menu, just stayed with window menu
[10:54] <agateau> Riddell: mmm, I haven't tested that
[10:54] <Riddell> then I removed that and added another one and it picks up the menu titles but not the menu entries
[10:54] <agateau> Is it the menubar of a gtk app?
[10:55] <Riddell> nope
[10:55] <agateau> which app is it?
[10:57] <Riddell> dolphin, konsole, whatever
[10:57] <Riddell> logged out and in again now and it's working fine
[10:57] <Riddell> quite a bit of delay and flicker changing applications
[10:58] <agateau> yes, the flicker is a known bug
[11:00] <ghostcube> o/
[11:01] <ghostcube> hmmm, i read a bit about the client side windowdecorations
[11:01] <ghostcube> is this rally going to happen?
[11:01] <ghostcube> *e
[11:04] <Riddell> I expect so
[11:04] <Riddell> not in KDE though
[11:08] <apachelogger> well then
[11:08]  * apachelogger created 7k SLOC yesterday until this morning around 5 and yet it was not enough
[11:18] <Riddell> agateau: what is /src/3rdparty/dbusmenu-qt/update.sh ?
[11:18] <Riddell> it seems to have appeared during the build process
[11:18] <agateau> Riddell: a simple script to help me synchronise the copy of dbusmenu-qt
[11:19] <Riddell> ah I think I failed to do quilt add, silly me
[11:36] <Riddell> agateau: menu bar doesn't adapt too well if I shrink the height of the panel
[11:55] <ghostcube> Riddell: so only in gnome? hmm ok this would result in bad work for the compizianers :)
[11:57] <apachelogger> ghostcube: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/why-you-should-not-use-client-side-window-decorations/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/follow-up-on-client-side-decorations/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/open-letter-the-issues-with-client-side-window-decorations/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/technical-limitations-of-client-side-decorations/
[11:57] <ghostcube> i rad his blog
[11:57] <ghostcube> thats why i know aboput :D
[11:57] <apachelogger> well then :P
[11:57] <ghostcube> :P
[11:57] <ghostcube> and i know he hates it
[11:58]  * apachelogger too
[11:58] <apachelogger> but for other reasons :P
[12:22] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, ScottK: added a patch to bug 586497
[12:22] <Riddell> also packagekit and kpackagekit 0.6 uploaded
[12:22] <ScottK> Cool.
[12:23] <ScottK> 586497 will be a little hard to test.
[12:23] <JontheEchidna> A bit time-consuming, maybe, but all you have to do is turn on a stock install and watch
[12:24] <JontheEchidna> ...yeah, hard to test :)
[12:29] <ScottK> The trick will be noticing if something got installed when you weren't looking.
[12:30] <ScottK> The pass case is relatively easy to detect.
[12:30] <Riddell> you'd need to watch out on the security notifications to see what's new
[12:32] <JontheEchidna> bbl
[12:52] <Riddell> Riddell: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdepimlibs/akonadi/contact/contactsearchjob.cpp?r1=1129174&r2=1129173&pathrev=1129174&view=patch
[13:01] <Riddell> steveire: that patch doesn't apply to 4.4
[13:01] <Riddell> Riddell: http://websvn.kde.org/*checkout*/trunk/KDE/kdepimlibs/akonadi/contact/contactsearchjob.cpp?revision=1129174&pathrev=1129174
[13:12] <Riddell> Quintasan: I finally gor round to testing your update to kubuntu_02_microblog_default_configuration.diff and it works
[13:12] <Riddell> thanks very much
[13:24] <Riddell> Nightrose: you understand this microblogging stuff, do you know why this guy spams me each week? http://identi.ca/hunleyd
[13:25] <Nightrose> Riddell: yes
[13:25] <Nightrose> because he doesn't understand the concept of follow friday
[13:25] <dpm> Riddell, what's the documentation system in KDE or Qt? In GNOME/gtk there is gnome-doc-utils, which defines the layout where docs go, the tools used to build translations, etc. I'm just wondering what's the equivalent for KDE/Qt
[13:25] <Nightrose> follow friday is meant to show cool other people to follow
[13:26] <Nightrose> but it makes close to zero sense to post the same people every time
[13:26] <Nightrose> i've been pondering giving him a hint for a while tbh
[13:41] <Quintasan> Riddell: awesome
[13:48] <ScottK> Riddell: I fixed 586497 to point at kpackagekit.
[13:52] <Quintasan> Riddell: When we are supposed to work on Kolab support in Kontact?
[14:08] <Riddell> ScottK: what's the secret?
[14:08] <ScottK> Riddell: You have to open up one of the release tasks and edit it there.
[14:09] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: we're not ment to work on Kolab support in Kontact, upstream is.  Kolab Sys are ment to send packages at some point to help with packaging
[14:09] <ScottK> It will then automagically change them both.
[14:09] <Riddell> ScottK: mm, ok
[14:09] <ScottK> Typical crap Launchpad design.
[14:09] <Riddell> dpm: kdoctools maybe?
[14:10] <Riddell> that has stylesheets and whatnot for turning docbook into html
[14:10] <dpm> Riddell, ok, I'll look into that, thanks!
[14:12] <Riddell> dpm: I find the exact khelpcentre format a bit undocumented, it needs .desktop files in the right place to point to html or docbook files
[14:12] <Riddell> dpm: Robert Ancell was asking if KDE would take up Mallard and nixternal said it would probably be a nice idea but there's nobody upstream to do the work
[14:15] <dpm> right. The reason I'm asking is because I see that pkgbinarymangler supports the gnome-doc-utils layout to strip documentation translations and put them as-is into language packs. The idea was to save space on the LiveCd by installing only the documentation in the languages included there, rather than translated documentation for all languages. I just thought it would make sense to do the same for KDE/Qt apps, if there is a standard layout
[14:15] <dpm> pitti pointed me to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pkgbinarymangler/ubuntu/revision/35 for how it is done with apps following the gnome-doc-utils layout
[14:22] <Riddell> dpm: we already have docs split by language, they're in kde-l10n-xx and should get brought in by language-selector
[14:22] <Riddell> dpm: and given the problems we have with maintaining the pkgbinarymangler for application translations I'd be reluctant to make things more complex by making it to docs too
[14:23] <ScottK> Riddell: Kubuntu-docs could use this split, though.
[14:23] <dpm> Riddell, ah, that's true, I had completely forgotten about this. However, they are not split by language on kubuntu-docs
[14:23] <dpm> ah, ScottK was quicker than me :)
[14:24] <ScottK> Fortunately that's just one package, so the format is documented by the format of the package ...
[15:48] <txwikinger> Does anybody here know how the tagging of e-mail in kmail works?
[17:02] <a|wen> ScottK: no one got to it yet, so if you could have a look at sponsoring the new version of k3b that would be great; lp:~kubuntu-members/k3b/ubuntu
[17:04] <ScottK> OK
[17:05] <a|wen> thanks
[17:31] <shadeslayer_> o/
[17:36]  * a|wen is heading out for a few days ... and wishes everyone a nice weekend
[17:37] <ScottK> a|wen: Have a nice weekend.  Assuming my test build succeeds I'll upload this.
[17:38] <a|wen> ScottK: thanks again!
[17:38] <ScottK> a|wen: No problem.  Next week could you have a look at the k3b patches and see if any can get upstream?
[17:39] <a|wen> ScottK: sure; i'll add it to my todo
[17:40] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: anything left for me? :(
[17:43] <ScottK> shadeslayer_: I'm not sure.  Checking the Universe plasma-widgets to see if they are up to date is probably a good idea.
[17:43] <shadeslayer_> whee :)
[17:44] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: each of them has a package to themselves?
[17:44] <ScottK> Yes
[17:45] <ScottK> But they are all named plasma-widget-*
[17:45] <shadeslayer_> ok...
[17:47] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: um... k3b is up for a merge in MoM
[17:47] <shadeslayer_> ignore?
[17:47] <ScottK> shadeslayer_: Interesting.
[17:48] <ScottK> No.
[17:48] <shadeslayer_> Hmmm
[17:48] <ScottK> Have a look at what's in bzr and see what needs changing.
[17:48] <shadeslayer_> ill do konversation while im at it...
[17:48] <ScottK> I didn't upload yet.
[17:48] <shadeslayer_> sure :)
[17:49] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: We had a mail about RC right?
[17:49] <shadeslayer_> hmm debian has RC3
[17:52] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: so i guess merge RC3 and then update to RC4?
[18:17] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: yum : http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ch01wD4r
[18:26] <shadeslayer> zomg.... konversation has a huge diff....
[18:26] <shadeslayer> really really really really huge diff...
[18:29] <ScottK> We already had the rc3 merge from Debian.  Their -2 is a change we already had, so the merge just affects debian/changelog
[18:35]  * shadeslayer_ checks out some slides by maco
[18:36] <shadeslayer_> maco: the latest one is pretty good...
[18:39] <shadeslayer> ScottK: Question about meta kde,in ubuntu it recommends hal,do we need that in maverick or can i remove it from control file?
[18:40] <shadeslayer> since debian made put it in recommends instead
[18:40] <maco> shadeslayer: thanks
[18:40] <shadeslayer> um
[18:40] <shadeslayer> ScottK: in ubuntu hal is a dep of meta kde...
[18:40] <shadeslayer> maco: yaw :)
[18:40] <maco> shadeslayer: are you jumping between two different computers?
[18:41] <shadeslayer> maco: nah.. this is my normal quassel window... the other account is on a core
[18:41] <shadeslayer> had the client open for a few mins to read the backlog :)
[18:41] <ScottK> shadeslayer: For meta-kde, just follow Debian.  We don't really maintain those packages in Kubuntu (they are Debian's KDE metapackages) except to change things that cause problems.
[18:41] <ScottK> If someone wants to remove HAL and run KDE, they are welcome to try.
[18:41] <shadeslayer> ScottK: thanks :)
[18:42] <shadeslayer> ScottK: still... removing it from dep and making it a recommend is pretty serious imo
[18:43] <ScottK> Not really.  Recommends are installed by default, so someone would still need to make an effort to avoid it.
[18:43] <shadeslayer> ah ok.. its suggests that dont get installed :)
[18:44] <ScottK> Yes.
[18:55] <lex79> Riddell: plasma crashes with last libdbusmenu if you right click on the systray
[18:57] <Riddell> mm, work for me
[18:57] <Riddell> oh boom
[18:57] <Riddell> there it goes
[18:58] <lex79> for instance on kmix doesn't show the menu and after a bit plasma crash :)
[18:59] <Riddell> yes I agree
[18:59] <Riddell> I'll e-mail aurelien
[18:59] <lex79> ok
[19:04] <shadeslayer> lex79: no need to merge meta-kde from debian right? diff here ; http://paste.ubuntu.com/451701/
[19:06] <shadeslayer> its a pretty useless merge imo... doesnt add anything new afaik
[19:07] <lex79> we can do for 4.5 rc1 when we will need to bump kde-sc-dev-latest package
[19:08] <shadeslayer> no point of doing it now...
[19:10] <neversfelde> evening
[19:11] <lex79> shadeslayer: no, since rc1 will be release 23rd
[19:11] <lex79> neversfelde: o/
[19:11] <shadeslayer> Riddell: any news on the MIRs ?
[19:11] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: hey :)
[19:11] <neversfelde> hi
[19:12] <shadeslayer> lex79: how do you mark a bug as wishlist>
[19:13] <lex79> shadeslayer: I think you can't if you aren't at least motu
[19:13] <lex79> or MOTO
[19:13] <lex79> :)
[19:13] <maco> bug control can
[19:14] <lex79> right
[19:14] <shadeslayer> hmm.. feel free to mark bug 595956 as wishlist
[19:15] <shadeslayer> in case amarok doesnt have mp3 ripping support...  dont really use amarok :P
[19:18] <shadeslayer> lex79: also i dont think we need to merge kmymoney : http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/k/kmymoney/kmymoney_3.98.1-2/changelog
[19:19] <shadeslayer> whereas last ubuntu changelog shows we are using out doc install paths
[19:19] <shadeslayer> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmymoney
[19:19] <shadeslayer> s/out/our
[19:19] <lex79> no, no need to merge only the changelog :)
[19:20] <shadeslayer> lex79: just the changelog? whats the use of that?
[19:20] <shadeslayer> oh nvm
[19:20] <shadeslayer> :P
[19:20] <lex79> :)
[19:23] <shadeslayer> maco: btw who maintains the ubuntu wiki?
[19:23] <maco> shadeslayer: people
[19:23] <shadeslayer> i need to contact them about a loooong pending issue/bug
[19:23] <shadeslayer> maco: dont they have names? :P
[19:24] <shadeslayer> like who is in charge of maintaining the moin moin stuff
[19:24] <maco> oh you mean not "who changes the text" but "who makes the server go"?
[19:24] <maco> #canonical-sysadmin
[19:24] <maco> well really, you should file a ticket on rt.ubuntu.com
[19:24] <shadeslayer> maco: its already there
[19:24] <maco> and then when it gets ignored (pretty much inevitable), that channel is where you complain in a couple weeks
[19:24] <shadeslayer> nobody cares...
[19:24] <shadeslayer> heh.. its been months actually...
[19:25] <shadeslayer> there are about 3-4 bugs and 2 tickets on it :P
[19:25] <maco> ok so now you're at the "whine in #canonical-sysadmin" stage
[19:25] <shadeslayer> hehe
[19:25]  * shadeslayer searches mail for ticker
[19:25] <shadeslayer> *ticket
[19:26] <shadeslayer> ah there we go... ticket no 37595
[19:33] <shadeslayer> maco: that channel is dead :P
[19:34] <shadeslayer> i guess ill have to live with this :(
[19:36] <maco> its not dead
[19:36] <maco> they're just hiding
[19:39] <shadeslayer> maco: why do they do that :P
[19:40]  * shadeslayer marks more kde stuff in universe as no need to merge
[19:40] <maco> im kidding :P theyre working on other servery stuff or something
[19:40] <maco> or maybe theyre eating dinner. its dinner time in the UK
[19:40]  * maco looks at Riddell
[19:40] <maco> i mean /tea/ time
[19:40] <shadeslayer> hmm
[19:41] <shadeslayer> shtylman: any updates with the new kubuntu site?
[19:41] <shadeslayer> or was ofirk being given a server to set it up the last one?
[19:42] <shadeslayer> boo... all kde stuff done in MoM universe
[19:43] <shadeslayer> well not webkitkde.. but im not that advanced a packager to do that :P
[19:44] <shtylman> shadeslayer: not really up to me
[19:45] <shtylman> ofirk is the guy to ask... and maybe Riddell
[19:45] <shadeslayer> shtylman: ok.. just checking if there were any updates :)
[19:46] <shtylman> shadeslayer: dunno... sorry :/ I wish there were
[19:46] <shadeslayer> :(
[20:24] <Riddell> shadeslayer: voila http://staging.www.kubuntu.org/#
[20:24] <shadeslayer> omg omg omg :)
[20:25]  * shadeslayer hugs Riddell
[20:25]  * shadeslayer pokes around new site
[20:25] <shadeslayer> it looks better than ubuntu.com :P
[20:26] <shadeslayer> Riddell: may i suggest something?
[20:26] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i would advise putting live chat above forums here : http://staging.www.kubuntu.org/community
[20:28] <shadeslayer> apart from that the site is pretty much awesome
[20:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: when is it going to be released ?
[20:31] <ScottK> It would be nice if the page we linked to about professional support actually mentioned Kubuntu as a supported product.
[20:32] <ScottK> Riddell: Does Canonical still do Kubuntu support contracts?
[20:34] <shadeslayer> ScottK: can you mark bug 595956 as wishlist?
[20:35] <shadeslayer> its being worked on by upstream... theres a link in my comment
[20:37] <neversfelde> ScottK: my english ist not as good as it should be, so I will not answer on the MOTU list because it is a sensible topic. In general I agreee with your opinion.
[20:38] <ScottK> neversfelde: OK.  FYI, I think you mean sensitive, not sensible.
[20:38] <ScottK> Thanks for letting me know.
[20:38] <neversfelde> yes :)
[20:41] <jussi> ScottK: I would assume so, as they support anything thats in main, no?
[20:41] <ScottK> jussi: Not exactly.  "Supported" as in provide security fixes yes.  "Supported" as in you can buy a support contract for that, not necessarily.
[20:42] <ScottK> As an example, there's a raft of packages that are only in Main becuase Canonical uses them internally.
[20:42] <jussi> ScottK: I was under the impressin if you bought a standard ubuntu support contract you got support for whats in main... but I could be wrong
[20:42] <ScottK> I don't think so, but I could be wrong too.
[20:49] <Riddell> shtylman: e-mail ofir with suggestions
[20:50] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: ^^ rather
[20:50] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: it'll be done when ofir says so I think
[20:50] <Riddell> ScottK: yes Canonical supports Kubuntu
[20:51] <Riddell> jussi: no they don't support everything in main, only a subset e.g. apt-cache show konqueror says Supported: 18m for maverick
[20:52] <jussi> oh
[20:52] <jussi> Riddell: how long are you planning on staying?
[20:53] <jussi> also, who is our web guy? I think we should have a link to the canonical store on the kubuntu.org website...
[20:53] <Riddell> jussi: just a night
[20:54] <jussi> Riddell: then back to tampere?
[20:54] <Riddell> yes
[20:54] <Riddell> jussi: e-mail klinger.ofir @gmail.com with suggestions for http://staging.www.kubuntu.org/
[20:54] <jussi> Riddell: we were thinking of heading to Jyvaskyhla (closh'ish to tampere) on the friday - could take you along.
[20:55] <Riddell> is it exciting
[20:55] <Riddell> I need to register for Akademy at some point
[20:55] <maco> Riddell: can you take some maple syrup to akademy with you?
[20:55] <maco> Riddell: blauzahl wants to show the indian kde people what pancakes are
[20:56] <jussi> Riddell: hehe... not really - its a religious festival/conference - unless you are interested in that. but Was thinking it would cheapen your trip somewhat
[20:56] <jussi> If we drop you at Jyväskylä trainstation as opposed to going from oulu
[20:56] <Riddell> jussi: oh, by car?
[20:56] <jussi> Riddell: yes
[20:57] <jussi> Riddell: oh, and Ill have my UK order form to you soon :D
[20:57] <Riddell> jussi: yes I think Jyväskylä would be most helpful
[20:58] <jussi> Riddell: exceelent!
[20:58] <Riddell> I'm travelling by ryanair so large quantities of goods being brought are unlikely
[20:59] <jussi> aww
[20:59] <Riddell> running low on Marmite is it?
[20:59] <jussi> I dont suppose you can get your hands on beef sausages... you just cant buy them here...
[20:59] <jussi> nah, the vegemite supply is ok
[21:00] <Riddell> maco: I prefer lemon curd with my pancakes
[21:00] <jussi> its the fresh stuff thats the hardest to get, beef sausages, double cream etc
[21:00] <jussi> Maple syrup on bacon pancakes.... NOM!
[21:04] <Riddell> jussi: you've started a debate in the flat about why beef and cream would be in short supply in Finland, do they have no cows?
[21:05] <jussi> Riddell: no,, they just dont understand the concept of fresh sausages (only really have these hotdog style ones) and there is lots of cream, just not double cream
[21:05]  * jussi shrugs
[21:06]  * jussi grumbes... stupid canonical store wont let me buy stuff
[21:16] <txwikinger> jussi: just tell them to sent it to you.. no need of buying :D
[21:19] <jussi> txwikinger: I think Ill grumble at people
[21:19] <txwikinger> Yeah.. they certainly like that :)
[22:04]  * shadeslayer grumbles as kmail is stuck at 35 pc mail download
[22:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: kptc finally made it in :)
[23:39] <shadeslayer> one qtcreator upload closed 3 bugs :P
[23:53] <ScottK> Nice


[00:01] <CheGuevara> hmm ntfs mounting in kde 4 deffinetely needs fixing before rls
[00:01] <neversfelde> it works for me
[00:02] <CheGuevara> thats weird
[00:02] <CheGuevara> oh you mean a dvd :P
[00:02] <neversfelde> ah no. Only a few seconds
[00:02] <nareshov> does anyone have skim working with konsole-kde4?
[00:04] <CheGuevara> yep Riddell dvds work fine
[00:04] <Riddell> maybe I should try regionset
[00:04] <neversfelde> now for me too
[00:05] <Riddell> nareshov: can't say I've tried
[00:05] <Riddell> nareshov: does it work with any kde 4 app?
[00:05]  * nareshov checks
[00:06] <nareshov> nope '[
[00:06] <Riddell> nareshov: does it work with kde 3 apps?
[00:06] <nareshov> yep
[00:07] <Riddell> ah, regionset did it
[00:08] <Riddell> it's days like this that make me dislike large evil corporations who try and control their customers
[00:08] <Riddell> thanks for checking CheGuevara, neversfelde
[00:08] <CheGuevara> np
[00:11] <nixternal_> damn, my router at home must have reset itself..can't ssh into it
[00:14] <crimsun> no, that was my vector into your toaster.
[00:15] <CheGuevara> lol
[00:30] <nixternal_> leave my toaster alone!
[00:33] <crimsun> it's not your toaster.
[00:33] <crimsun> (anymore)
[00:34] <CheGuevara> arrgh i forgot my gpg passphrase
[00:35] <nixternal_> CheGuevara: I know it, pay me $5 and I will tell you it :p
[00:35] <CheGuevara> lol
[00:38] <ryanakca> CheGuevara: that's always fun :)
[00:39] <CheGuevara> yeah just when i need to do this debdiff for kubuntu
[00:41] <Riddell> CheGuevara: you don't need gpg for a debdiff
[00:42] <CheGuevara> true
[00:42] <CheGuevara> debuild was complaigning
[00:42] <CheGuevara> i'll do an unsigned package
[00:42] <Riddell> -us -uc
[00:44] <CheGuevara> yep
[00:46] <CheGuevara> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13101751/kdebase-workspace_4.0.3-0ubuntu2.debdiff
[00:46] <Riddell> what's the "desktop toolbox"?
[00:47] <CheGuevara> that thing in the to right corner
[00:47] <CheGuevara> the one that asiego loves so much :P
[00:47] <CheGuevara> *aseigo
[00:48] <CheGuevara> zoom is useless in kde 4.0.x and it doesn't do much else useful
[00:48] <Riddell> it's how you add applets
[00:48] <CheGuevara> yeah but there are at least 2 other ways to add them
[00:48] <Riddell> discoverable ways?
[00:48] <CheGuevara> yep
[00:48] <CheGuevara> right click on desktop
[00:49] <CheGuevara> and press add widget
[00:49] <nixternal_> CheGuevara: once zoom is working (which it isn't in trunk yet last I checked), it will be pretty cool
[00:49] <Riddell> there's a whole class of people who never use the right mouse button
[00:49]  * nixternal_ never uses the mouse :)
[00:49] <nixternal_> Riddell: did you updated your qt-copy package in your PPA?
[00:50] <nixternal_> I was thinking of using my PPA for some biweekly snapshots possibly
[00:50] <CheGuevara> hmmm
[00:50] <CheGuevara> apachelogger said it was ok to remove it as opposed to just removing the zoom buttons
[00:50] <nixternal_> I wouldn't remove that thing in the top right...to many people use it that I know of
[00:51] <nixternal_> new users typically aren't right click lovers yet
[00:51] <CheGuevara> there's no plasmoids to add
[00:51] <CheGuevara> most are on by default
[00:51] <CheGuevara> and extragear ones are b0rked i think
[00:51] <nixternal_> they shouldn't be
[00:51] <Nightrose> CheGuevara: extragear ones work fine heer
[00:51] <Nightrose> *here
[00:51] <nixternal_> I just built them out today at home as a matter of fact, and they all work great
[00:51] <nixternal_> even the dataengines
[00:52] <CheGuevara> when you build them ur self or from repos?
[00:52] <Riddell> nixternal_: no but rc 1 packages would be lovely to have
[00:52] <nixternal_> hrmm, I won't have any time really until sunday to work on anything
[00:52] <Riddell> nixternal_: we'll see who has spare time first then :)
[00:52] <nixternal_> I still have some screenshots for my KDE 4 and Community presentations this weekend
[00:53] <nixternal_> works for me :)
[00:53] <nixternal_> the qt rc1 pkg should be easy as long as they grab your qt-copy one and just update it
[00:53] <nixternal_> I need to try and build out the new jambi packages with the openjdk stuff...I couldn't get them build...actually, they wouldn't even build using sun-java6
[00:55] <ryanakca> nixternal_: oooh, that (biweekly snapshot) would be nice, much better than trying to build from source and then discovering that my sources are messed up...
[00:56] <Riddell> CheGuevara: I'd much rather just remove the zoom button
[00:56] <nareshov> okay, weirdness
[00:56] <Riddell> CheGuevara: was it discussed with seele?
[00:56] <nareshov> Ctrl+B wasn't working on emacs inside konsole-kde4
[00:57] <nareshov> and now I notice that its konsole's "Add bookmark" shortcut >_>
[00:57] <CheGuevara> Riddell: no, why?
[00:58] <nixternal_> OK, I really need to pay attention to this class..I am supposed to be bidding on some project, and I have no clue what it is :)
[00:58] <nixternal_> I will be back in a bit!
[00:58] <ryanakca> lol :)
[01:01] <CheGuevara> Riddell, but yeah if you'd rather do that, I can produce a patch, I just fount where the code is :P
[01:01] <Riddell> CheGuevara: I suspect she has informed opinions
[01:10] <Riddell> _Sime_!
[01:11] <Riddell> _Sime_: is python-kde in kdebindings 4.0.3 synced to Jim's 4.0.2?
[03:58] <nixternal> well, I tried using the projector in class, and it was less than usable for me...had some issues...even xrandr proved to be evil
[03:59] <DaSkreech> nixternal: hardy?
[03:59] <nixternal> yup
[03:59] <nixternal> both in kde4 and kde3
[04:00] <nixternal> which krandrtray and xrandr have worked in the past
[04:40]  * stdin adds bug #197865 to his 5-a-day "done" list
[04:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197865 in kdebase-workspace "Zoom out button in plasma should be removed for hardy" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197865
[04:43] <nixternal> ahh, that button
[04:43] <nixternal> stdin: good call!
[04:43] <stdin> if anyone want's to test, "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsimpson/ubuntu hardy main"
[04:43] <nixternal> that will stop the stupid bug reports and questions we keep seeing
[05:18]  * n8k99 !loving java programming class
[05:21] <DasKreech> n8k99: Nice
[05:21] <n8k99> you must be feeling my pain
[05:35]  * Hobbsee is liking the java class.  gasp.
[05:38] <DasKreech> You just like it cause you get to keep the coffee afterwards
[06:04] <Hobbsee> DasKreech: i don't drink coffee :P
[06:05] <DasKreech> That's why it's a gasp you like the class :)
[06:47] <apachelogger> nixternal: the questin you have to ask is - do we want our users to prop into a plasmoid control window where you can easily break your whole desktop and can't find any plasmoids to use, because users don't search for plasmoid packages just like they don't right click their desktop to find new stuff
[08:25] <_Sime_> Riddell: I was busy merging and testing just an hour before you called out.
[08:45] <_Sime_> Riddell: 4.0.4 will be synced. There was not enough time to catch the 4.0.3 bus
[09:40] <serega> hi there
[10:13] <etretyak> hi, serega!
[10:25] <Riddell> "Your membership in kubuntu-members is about to expire" uh oh
[10:26] <jpatrick> mail should have a renewal link
[10:32] <Riddell> "kubuntu-members will expire soon from ubuntumembers" uh oh uh oh
[10:33] <jpatrick> "ubuntu-core-dev will soon expire"
[10:38] <jpatrick> ah wait, ~kubuntu-members isn't a permument member of ubuntumembers? :-/
[10:39] <Riddell> mornfall: what's all this about adept being removed from Debian?
[11:04] <mornfall> Riddell: Well, 2.x is just too broken as it is. So I asked for its removal.
[11:58] <nixternal> it is way to early!
[11:58] <Jucato> waaay
[11:59] <nixternal> apachelogger: how is someone going to go into the the little coffee bean in the top right corner and break their whole desktop by adding a widget or zooming in?
[11:59] <nixternal> 06:00
[11:59] <nixternal> I haven't been up this early since the military
[11:59] <Jucato> hm... I think you have been up once this early...
[12:00] <Jucato> either for a meeting or you just woke up early by chance
[12:00] <nixternal> ya, if I stayed up the entire night :)
[12:00] <nixternal> oh ya
[12:00] <nixternal> I forgot about UDS Paris
[12:00] <nixternal> I did wake up every morning at like 05:00 so I can catch the meetings
[12:01] <nixternal> I ended up going to bed at 01:00, woke up at 05:30
[12:01] <nixternal> already took the dogs out, and made a pot of coffee :)
[12:01] <Jucato> :D
[12:01] <Jucato> ah kaffeine!
[12:01] <nixternal> oh yes
[12:01] <nixternal> on a day like today, only the strong stuff will do
[12:02] <Jucato> strong stuff = pure coffee powder/beans... no water, no sugar
[12:02] <nixternal> going to have breakfast with Bruce Perens, John Maddog Hall, and a few other speakers..I hope somebody is paying :p
[12:02] <nixternal> hahahaha
[12:02] <nixternal> heck ya, who needs water anyways :)
[12:02] <Jucato> somebody's paying... you :)
[12:02] <nixternal> I hope not, I am broke
[12:03] <Jucato> :D
[12:04] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, in 2 weeks I will be at Penguicon with jcastro...he doesn't know this yet, but I am sleeping in his bed and he has the couch :P
[12:04] <Jucato> O.o
[12:04] <Jucato> lol
[12:04] <Jucato> I "misread" that in some perverted way :)
[12:04] <nixternal> go figure
[12:04] <Jucato> :D
[12:05] <nixternal> why are all of my filipino friends perveted?
[12:05] <nixternal> perverted too
[12:05] <Jucato> it's in the jeans :P
[12:05] <Jucato> (pun intended)
[12:06] <nixternal> hehe
[12:10] <Riddell> mornfall: it seems to work in kubuntu still though
[12:11] <nixternal> how is your morning thus far Riddell? I rarely catch you in the morning :)
[12:11] <Riddell> nixternal: very exciting, I had to go an courir blood across town earlier to save a fluffy kitten
[12:12] <nixternal> hehehe, man you are like a super hero for real :)
[12:44] <nixternal> OK, time to go pimp Kubuntu and KDE! hopefully I won't have to beat up the Gnome Users Group again
[12:45] <Jucato> GuG :)
[12:46] <nixternal> ya, Chicago has a GUG
[12:46] <nixternal> I am gonna hit um with a KEG
[12:46] <nixternal> KDE Eats Gnomeites
[12:46] <nixternal> my bud is their leader, as a matter of fact, he is picking me up from the train this morning :)
[12:47] <Jucato> hahah
[12:47] <Jucato> but KEG is already taken...
[12:47] <nixternal> I know, KUG didn't sound cool though
[12:47] <Jucato> let's think of something kooler :)
[12:48] <Jucato> ok done thinking... nada :)
[12:48] <Jucato> KEG it is!
[12:48] <nixternal> haha
[12:48] <nixternal> plus a KEG it great to have at a party
[12:50]  * nixternal goes
[12:50] <nixternal> cya later
[12:50] <Jucato> cya!
[13:05] <mhb> hi
[13:14] <Riddell> Nightrose: were you looking at apps crashing on exit yesterday?
[13:14] <Nightrose> i was yes
[13:15] <Riddell> Nightrose: dfaure posted a patch, want to test .debs when I compile them?
[13:15] <Nightrose> Riddell: sure
[13:16] <Nightrose> Riddell: ##distro meeting today btw (in case you want to attend and didn't see it yet)
[13:17] <Nightrose> ##distros even
[13:17] <Riddell> Nightrose: yeah, I think I'm out canoeing at the time though :(
[13:18] <Nightrose> hehe ok - I will keep an eye on it
[13:18] <Nightrose> and have fun canoeing
[13:20] <Riddell> thanks
[13:21] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: hey
[13:22] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: I asked you the other day too but you were afk
[13:22] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: what's the state of this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-grubconfig
[13:46] <asac> ola ;)
[13:47] <jjesse> hola
[13:47] <Hobbsee> oh noes, ti's asac!
[13:47] <asac> please raise your hand if you do not have libgnomevfs on your system ;)
[13:47] <asac> hi Hobbsee
[13:47] <Hobbsee> heya :)
[13:48] <asac> i don't want to remove that but i need someone testing firefox ;)
[13:48] <asac> its just download upstream build: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0b5/linux-i686/en-US/firefox-3.0b5.tar.bz2
[13:48] <asac> unpack ... start ./firefox
[13:48] <asac> and see if preferences -> applications displays anything for you ;)
[13:49] <asac> but only if you don't have libgnomevfs ;)
[13:53]  * Riddell tries
[13:57] <Riddell> asac: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/firefox.png
[13:58] <Riddell> asac: installing libgnomevfs2-0 doesn't seem to make any difference
[13:58] <asac> Riddell: install xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support as well please
[13:59] <asac> and touch /usr/lib/firefox-3.0*/.autoreg before you restart (bug)
[14:00] <asac> Riddell: anyway. don't need to test that
[14:00] <asac> justed wanted to see a confirm that this doesn't work with upstream firefox
[14:00] <asac> Riddell: what could firefox use to get applications for file extensions or mime-type?
[14:00] <asac> (on kde)`
[14:04] <Riddell> asac: KDE 4 uses the shared mime types same as gnome
[14:04] <asac> Riddell: i don't understand what that means
[14:05] <asac> what api is taht?
[14:10] <Riddell> asac: http://standards.freedesktop.org/shared-mime-info-spec/shared-mime-info-spec-latest.html
[14:11] <Riddell> it's not an API, it's a standard for desktops to implement
[14:14] <Nightrose> does anyone know if tonio made any progress on this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/203690
[14:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203690 in kubuntu-meta "kdesudo does not display correct comment in some cases" [Undecided,New]
[14:14] <Riddell> Nightrose: I seem to remember he said he'd fixed it
[14:15] <Nightrose> yea me too
[14:15] <Nightrose> I will mark it as fixed then
[14:15] <Nightrose> seele can reopen if needed
[14:17] <seele> mm?
[14:17] <seele> Riddell: he fixed it after he fixed it?  the last time i saw it, it was still broken
[14:18] <Riddell> Nightrose: wait to check with tonio
[14:18] <Nightrose> ok let's ask him then when he gets back
[14:21] <Tm_M> hi kids
[14:21] <Nightrose> heya Tm_M :)
[14:30] <Nightrose> jussi01: does quassel have an icon in the menu for you?
[14:31] <jussio1> Nightrose: no
[14:31] <Nightrose> ok
[14:32] <jussio1> Nightrose: I havent got around to it yet
[14:32] <Nightrose> jussio1: no problem - just wanted to make sure it is known and not a lical problem
[14:32] <jussio1> Nightrose: feel free to mod tha package and send me updates...
[14:32] <Nightrose> hehe
[14:32] <Riddell> Nightrose: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdelibs5_4.0.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb (although dfaure just posted saying his patch wasn't relevant)
[14:33] <Nightrose> Riddell: will give it a test in a minute
[14:33] <Nightrose> Riddell: what should I be looking for exactly?
[14:34] <Riddell> Nightrose: see if programmes crash on closing
[14:34] <Nightrose> ok
[14:44] <Nightrose> Riddell: the two apps that were crashing for me on exit (dragon player and kopete) no longer crash - but I can't say for sure if kopete crashed in 4.0.3 or only before that
[14:44] <Nightrose> Riddell: but dragon player did just yesterday so I am sure about that
[14:45] <Riddell> Nightrose: ok, good, thanks
[14:45] <Nightrose> you're welcome
[14:48] <Nightrose> me for some reason my external HD gets mounted at media/My Book_1 now instead of media/My Book - and next boot it is media/My Book_2  - this is annoying as I point amarok there :(
[14:49] <Nightrose> worked fine until yesterday or so
[14:51] <metellius> i want to code a patch for libqt-gui packages, but the whole dpkg-buildpackage process is insanely slow for actually getting some iterative code/compile/test programming going... is there actually a better way for this that people have thought of?
[14:59] <Riddell> metellius: dpkg-buildpackage will clean the sources and recompile each time, not what you want as you've noticed
[14:59] <metellius> yes
[15:00] <metellius> i picked up hints about -nc being possible
[15:00] <Riddell> yes, that'll stop it doing the make clean
[15:00] <Riddell> metellius: you can also just edit the code and run make yourself
[15:00] <Riddell> and make install to install to /usr, no need to build the .debs every time
[15:00] <metellius> the install part of the debian/rules file is taking a lot of time
[15:01] <metellius> is there a hack to disable that?
[15:01] <Riddell> just run make; make install yourself
[15:01] <Riddell> and edit the code directly, don't recreate the patch each time, just make the patch when you've made the changes you know you want
[15:03] <metellius> i guess thats possible in most cases
[15:24] <jjesse>  /join #ubuntu-bugs
[15:37] <asac> Riddell: i guess you already know, but: "KNetworkManager 0.2.2 bugfix release"
[15:37] <Riddell> asac: hmm, no
[15:40] <Riddell> asac: where did you see that announced?
[15:44] <ScottK> I'm currently unable to sftp from Konqueror to anything in Hardy.  It works from Konsole.  Suggestions on where I should look into this?
[15:44] <ScottK> This is KDE3.
[15:46] <Riddell> works for me
[15:48] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Thanks.
[15:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Works for me too with a new user.  Thanks again.
[15:55] <asac> oops ... Riddell went to the nm-list
[15:55] <asac> and To<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:55] <asac> Subject: KNetworkManager 0.2.2 released
[15:55] <asac> Cc<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:56] <Riddell> thanks
[16:10] <mhb> hmm
[16:10] <mhb> a strange thing - can you access directories with spaces in bash in hardy<
[16:10] <mhb> ?
[16:11] <Riddell> yes
[16:11] <Riddell> escape with a z
[16:11] <Riddell> escape with a \
[16:11] <mhb> martin@blackbook:~$ cd sthing\ sthing/
[16:11] <mhb> bash: cd: sthing: No such file or directory
[16:11] <Riddell> jr@wido:~/tmp>mkdir sthing\ sthing
[16:11] <Riddell> jr@wido:~/tmp>cd sthing\ sthing/
[16:11] <Riddell> jr@wido:~/tmp/sthing sthing>
[16:11] <mhb> hmm.
[16:11] <mhb> thanks
[16:12] <mhb> any idea why it does it?
[16:12] <Riddell> afraid not
[16:12] <mhb> me neither, but thanks
[16:12] <mhb> I'll UTFG
[16:20] <mhb> ah, removing those nasty bash hooks that KDE folks use (cs and the like) worked
[16:21] <sebas> mhb: zsh :)
[16:31] <manchicken> I marked bug #189764 as a duplicate of #48627.  Let me know if you all disagree.
[16:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189764 in adept "Running Adept Update Manager fails. error msg available (dup-of: 48627)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189764
[16:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 48627 in adept "Poor resolution of "database locked" problem" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48627
[16:41] <nixternal> oi
[16:41] <nixternal> I am sitting here wearing a Gnome button, just got a Gnome shirt, and I am hungry
[16:42] <Nightrose> hehe heya nixternal
[16:42] <nixternal> so, the crew bet me I wouldn't wear a Gnome t-shirt and give my KDE 4 talk
[16:42] <Nightrose> feeling good with the gnome button?
[16:42] <nixternal> it smells like dirty feet :)
[16:42] <ScottK> He likes Vista.  Gnome is a detail to him.
[16:42] <Nightrose> haha and you are of course going to do it?
[16:43]  * mhb likes OS X
[16:43] <mhb> :o)
[16:43] <nixternal> Nightrose: of course I am
[16:43] <Nightrose> *lol*
[16:43] <Nightrose> I knew it
[16:43] <Nightrose> photos!
[16:45]  * Nightrose is still looking for good kde related workshops for froscon ( so far I have "writing your own plasmoids" and some ruby or phyton programming)
[16:45] <Nightrose> any ideas?
[16:45] <Nightrose> *python
[16:47] <Riddell> Nightrose: packaging workshop?
[16:47] <Nightrose> hmmmm yea good idea
[16:48] <Nightrose> now I just need to find someone to do that :P
[16:48] <Nightrose> maybe Harald
[16:48] <Nightrose> but well I need to find some more people for talks as well...
[16:53] <nixternal> Riddell: can you believe the 'Conference Pack' they sent has ZERO Kubuntu swag or CDs
[16:55] <Riddell> well there is no kubuntu swag
[16:55] <nixternal> at least a CD
[16:55] <Riddell> mm
[16:56] <nixternal> and people are asking for KDE 4 LiveCDs and Kubuntu CDs
[17:32] <jjesse> filling out tax forms is so much fun
[17:40] <Riddell> _Sime_: do you have any plans for a libpythonise for kde 4?
[17:40] <Riddell> apachelogger: how's kdebindings doing?
[17:56] <yuriy> bug 211717
[17:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211717 in knetworkmanager "knetworkmanager - manual configuration doesn't load (kde4)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211717
[17:57] <yuriy> either kubuntu-kde4-desktop should depend on knetworkconf or knetworkmanager should be patched to launch kcmshell4 under kde4, which would be more sensible?
[17:58] <yuriy> or perhaps knetworkmanager even should depend on knetworkconf
[17:58] <Riddell> yuriy: kcmshell4 won't make any sense
[17:58] <Riddell> since it has no knetworkconf
[17:58] <yuriy> Riddell: sure it does, it just doesn't work, with the error mentioned in the bug
[17:58] <Riddell> hmm
[17:58] <Riddell> good point
[17:59] <yuriy> Running "kcmshell4 kcm_knetworkconfmodule" does load a gui, but with a error dialog box of: Could not parse the XML file.
[17:59] <Riddell> ah
[18:08] <jjesse> i know this is probally more of a support #kubuntu question but what plugin for mp3 supporti in juk?
[18:18] <Riddell> jjesse: should be same as amarok, libxine1-ffmpeg, but do test that
[18:18] <jjesse> ok will do
[18:18] <jjesse> sorry i knew it was a support question
[18:19] <Riddell> I'd be interested if it works
[18:21] <jjesse> Riddell: yes it does work
[18:21] <smarter> ScottK: ping
[18:23] <ScottK> Pong
[18:23] <ScottK> smarter: I have it on my list, but I haven't looked at it yet.
[18:23] <smarter> ok, thanks ;)
[18:23] <Riddell> jjesse: phew
[18:25] <smarter> ScottK: I was wondering if we should add some visual notification when hal/dbus is on strike
[18:26] <ScottK> smarter: If the user had this notification, what could they do about it?
[18:26] <smarter> not a lot, but they'll know that information displayed by the applet is not accurate
[18:26] <smarter> we could gray out the applet
[18:29] <smarter> lithion battery don't like at all being completely emptied(kills instantaneously 20% of the battery capacity), the user should know that he can't rely on the applet battery to do the work for him
[18:30] <ScottK> OK.
[18:30] <ScottK> If we can work out a reasonable what the user should do with the information, then it makes sense to look into it.
[18:33] <smarter> maybe we should make a popup warning the user with a "relaunch HAL and DBUS" button and a "I know what I'm doing" button
[18:34] <smarter> but it shouldn't appears if dpkg is running, to prevent annoying popups during hal/dbus update
[18:35] <smarter> What is the release date for hardy? (:
[18:44] <ScottK> I think it's a little late for that.
[18:44] <ScottK> Riddell: Does guidance-powermanager survive into Intrepid or does it go away with displayconfig?
[18:44] <coreymon77> so, how usuable is kde4 with the latest update?
[18:46] <Riddell> ScottK: don't honestly know
[18:46] <ScottK> Fair enough.
[18:46] <Riddell> we have a battery monitor and ways to hibernate in KDE 4, lack ways to set brightness
[18:46] <jjesse> there is a way to hibernate in kde 4?
[18:47] <ScottK> smarter: You might do better to focus on fixing up the kde4 situation than go back and do a lot of work on Guidance.
[18:47] <Riddell> jjesse: from the logout menu?
[18:53] <jjesse> never noticed the supsend to ram suspend to disk
[18:53] <jjesse> accidently hit shutdown though :(
[19:27] <_Sime_> Riddell: hey
[19:28] <_Sime_> Riddell: hopefully it should now be possible to create a C++ kcm modules which can hold the interpreter and load any Python kcm, without needing separate .so files or hacks like libpythonize
[20:17] <Riddell> _Sime_: sounds like it still needs an elite hacker to do that
[20:18] <Riddell> fabo: does libqt4-core still need renamed if it's going to hang around anyway as a transitional?
[20:25] <fabo> Riddell: it can be avoided, but I prefer to keep the transitional package to make sure later everything was built against newer Qt. smoother transition.
[20:26] <Riddell> fabo: but is the transition needed at all?
[20:27] <fabo> Riddell: yes and no, wait I'll give you a link
[20:28] <fabo> http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2008/03/msg00361.html
[20:28] <fabo> http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2008/04/msg00043.html
[20:30] <fabo> Riddell: in short, if we want to be strict, we need a transition, but it sucks to do a transition for an ABI revert and a single arch. like mips.
[20:33] <fabo> Riddell: btw, ubuntu doesn't care as it doesn't supports mips :)
[20:34] <fabo> Riddell: why do you force bash in Qt configure ?
[20:36] <fabo> Riddell: hmm, the transition is needed anyway because of the split
[20:59] <stdin> fabo: bash was forced in Qt's configure because it has several bashisms in it and it wasn't detecting some things right. it was added so we could build the ODBC QtSql plugin, but the plugin doesn't build on 64bit anyway
[21:01] <fabo> stdin: strange, it builds fine on my amd64
[21:02] <stdin> fabo: I don't have an amd64 box, but the LP buildd shows this:
[21:02] <stdin> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11817847/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.qt4-x11_4.3.3-0ubuntu3~hardy1~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:04] <fabo> ah, it's 4.3
[21:05] <fabo> anyway, I'll take a look to the log
[21:16] <mhb> good evening my friends
[21:17] <nosrednaekim> evening mhb...
[22:02] <mhb> nosrednaekim: how are you?
[22:03] <nosrednaekim> great.... I just finished my last science fair... and did fairly well.
[22:04] <mhb> nosrednaekim: science fair? What did you do? I've never seen one of those...
[22:12] <nosrednaekim> its a high-school research project.... and then you compete against other hihgschoolers
[22:12] <nosrednaekim> I designed a morphing aircraft wing
[22:14] <mhb> nosrednaekim: nice
[22:16] <nosrednaekim> Some guys from the Czech Rep actually came to our fair last year... they were intrested in setting up a similar program over there
[22:18] <mhb> nosrednaekim: wonder where they ended up :o)
[22:18] <nosrednaekim> they seemed to be some fairly highly ranking polititians or something of the sort
[22:20] <mhb> nosrednaekim: well, you know how big their egos are ... almost like mine :o)
[22:20] <mhb> nosrednaekim: everyone think he's the most important man here
[22:21] <nosrednaekim> heh
[22:23] <mhb> nosrednaekim: ego is one part success
[22:24] <nosrednaekim> and the other part.... ego :)
[22:24] <mhb> nosrednaekim: money is the other, I guess ... but if you want to make a great product, you need knowledge too
[22:26] <nosrednaekim> true true....
[22:26] <mhb> KDE is like emacs ... trying to pack everything in :o) thus never achieving the leetness of vim :o)
[22:26]  * mhb always had a wicked analogy handy
[22:29] <ScottK> mhb: Dunno.  I had to install the Gnome network manager applet for some testing last week and it just felt WRONG.
[22:30] <mhb> ScottK: gnome is no better
[22:31] <mhb> ScottK: both projects are like black holes to me - instead of cooperating with various tools, they support only their own - and if there's already one (but no-KDE), the people create a totally new one just for the sake of it
[22:32] <mhb> wake me up when KDE stops being blind and tries to cooperate with other projects (like Firefox, one of the most often used pieces of open-source software) more
[22:33] <mhb> just because something is not in the .kde/share/apps/ silly config structure does not mean it should be ignored by the project
[22:33]  * mhb shuts up
[22:48] <Riddell> Nightrose: looks like you handled it good
[22:48] <Nightrose> Riddell: :) thx
[22:48] <ScottK> mhb: I can see your point, but OTOH, I really dislike FF more and more and fine I mostly use Konqueror for web browsing.
[22:48] <Nightrose> I am glad the general ubuntu intro was done by someone else though tbh ;-)
[22:58] <Riddell> hmm, do we have a meeting tomorrow?
[22:59] <nosrednaekim> ah... seems so :)
[23:00] <Riddell> hmm, I don't think I can make it
[23:01] <sistpoty> Riddell: we're just considering to delegate freeze exceptions for FinalFreeze regarding universe. Would you like to deal with kde(4) packages for this?
[23:02] <Riddell> sistpoty: can do
[23:02] <sistpoty> Riddell: excellent, thanks!
[23:18] <yuriy> is kuser-kde4 installed by default?
[23:20] <Riddell> yuriy: no
[23:20] <Riddell> we could if it worked I suppose
[23:28] <neversfelde> huh, all KDE 4 wallpapers gone, except of the default one. Is this a bug or do I have to install another package?
[23:29] <Riddell> neversfelde: kdebase-workspace-wallpapers
[23:29] <Riddell> splitting that out saved 20 megs on the CD
[23:29] <neversfelde> Riddell: ah, thank you. Saving space is always good ;)


[05:10] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:28] <ducasse> morning
[11:56] <marcoagpinto> guys: quick question, will 23.10 be close looking to the 24.04LTS?
[11:57] <marcoagpinto> I want to take some screenshots of my tool in month 10
[11:58] <marcoagpinto> with the most recent GUI
[11:58] <ravage> it will look like gnome at that time
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> ravage: could you explain? Thanks!


[09:26] <rmg51> Morning
[12:08] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys?, hamsters and everything else
[12:48] <ChinnoDog> morning


[12:56] <cmaloney> morning
[13:24] <_stink_> yo
[13:28] <jrwren> yo
[19:02] <cmaloney> Just cleaned out gutters.


[00:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
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[00:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[14:54] <jamespage> moring xranby
[14:54] <xranby> jamespage: good morning
[14:54] <xranby> di session start in 1h?
[14:54] <xranby> do
[14:55] <jamespage> xranby, yep
[14:55] <jamespage> see you then
[14:55] <xranby> great, yes see you as well have a good breakfast
[15:32] <xranby> gnu_andrew: welcome
[15:35] <gnu_andrew> xranby, thanks for the heads up :-)
[15:37] <xranby> gnu_andrew: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20495/foundations-q-java7/   live notes will get scribbled down here, i think you need a launchpad account to see them
[15:40] <xranby> gnu_andrew here is working at Red Hat and are heavily involved with bringing security fixes into IcedTea from OpenJDK and have done countless IcedTea releases during the last years
[15:42] <nthykier> welcome
[15:46] <gnu_andrew> nthykier, thanks
[15:46] <gnu_andrew> The last date is Oct for OpenJDK 6 security releases
[15:47] <nthykier> 2012?
[15:47] <gnu_andrew> i.e. after the 12 June and 16 Oct releases, there will be no more from Oracle
[15:47] <gnu_andrew> nthykier, yes 2012
[15:47] <nthykier> ugh
[15:47] <gnu_andrew> yeah this is why it's an issue, not just us being nasty :-)
[15:51] <xranby> doko: hi and welcome
[15:54] <jamespage> everyone able to access the pad OK?
[15:56] <nthykier> nope - I guess my membership of that etherpad group needs to be approved first >.>
[15:58] <xranby> ok shall we start?
[15:58] <jamespage> nthykier, I just poked to see if that can be done now
[15:58] <jamespage> yes
[15:59] <jamespage> OK - lets make a start - any late attendees this end can catchup
[16:00] <xranby> for people listening in on audio try reconnect, the shoutcast server restarts every full hour
[16:01] <nthykier> (who is the speaker, btw? jamespage?)
[16:01] <doko> yes
[16:01] <jamespage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Java7Default
[16:03] <gnu_andrew> no access either
[16:04] <xranby> is Ubuntu collaborating with the Fedora team to shake down Java7 FTBFS bugs?
[16:06] <nthykier> A Lintian check for what exactly?
[16:07] <nthykier> (sorry the sound is not the best)
[16:07] <jamespage> nthykier, to check to see if the bytecode in a jar file is only compatible with Java 7
[16:07] <jamespage> i.e. not backwards compatible
[16:07] <doko> nthykier, for the byte-code format used; to make sure that everything is built for e.g. 1.5 or 1.6, not 1.7
[16:07] <nthykier> should be trivial to do - there is some code for that already in javahelper
[16:08] <jamespage> nthykier, are you aware of plans to switch default-java in Debian this release?
[16:09] <nthykier> I am not aware of anyone doing it either, but having heard of the "security support" for Java6, I am considering to work on it
[16:09] <gnu_andrew> nthykier, jamespage: I suggest liasing with Fedora who've already switched in F17.  They may have patches you can share.
[16:10] <doko> usually Debian has a super set of the Fedora packages
[16:10] <gnu_andrew> I know.  But doing the common subset again is silly.
[16:11]  * gnu_andrew remembers only Debian had GNU Classpath and not Fedora :-)
[16:11] <jamespage> agreed - and we will colloborate as much as possible to ensure work is not repeated
[16:12] <gnu_andrew> and yes obviously the ideal is the upstream package has it :-)
[16:14] <xranby> - #ARM ASM-interpreter and Thumb2 JIT ported to #OpenJDK 7u3 Hotspot 22, IcedTea 7 2.1.1 branch, by chrisphi, aph & adinn at Red Hat.
[16:14] <jamespage> gnu_andrew, agreed
[16:14] <xranby> - The only problem is that there  is no IcedTea 7 2.1.1 release planned by the icedtea team. Ubuntu are  currently providing a pre-release build for arm using this 2.1.1 branch.
[16:14] <xranby> - The good news: the assembler port and thumb2 jit work https://docs.google.com/a/gudinna.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0ArR4FJuzvXEsdDZkek5QcXd3c2ROMm1IajE1WmFwYkE&oid=4&zx=edub54x8oark
[16:14] <xranby> - all in all my, xranby,  experience is that the openjdk 7 using the arm port   hits no regression  in usage compared to the openjdk 6   port.. so its sane to let  distributions default to it and keep working on tck convergence
[16:14] <gnu_andrew> xranby, plan one :-)
[16:14] <gnu_andrew> xranby, seriously I'd like one but don't feel qualified to say whether we are ready for one or not
[16:16] <xranby> i have asked andrew haley (aph)  Andrew Dinn and Chris Phillips on how much work there is left to get openjdk7  on arm to be feature complete and pass TCK
[16:16] <xranby> (14:03:59) aph_: xranby: I don't think that there are any really specific problems with the ARM port, except for the fact that hotspot is being constantly rewritten.
[16:16] <xranby> (14:04:16) aph_: xranby: apparently permgen is due to be deleted altogether
[16:17] <xranby> (15:50:09) ChrisPhi_:  I see zero  as having a lot of work to converge with jsr 292 / lambda and adopt some bytecode generation approaches, then we should be in maint mode.
[16:18] <jamespage> xranby, thats great news - and agreed that its sane to use in the distro due to no regression against openjdk6 port
[16:18] <xranby> the best part that have happened during the past cycle is that the arm port have passed the tck for openjdk 6
[16:18] <xranby> and that is now actively maintained by 3+ people
[16:20] <xranby> if we want more distributions to use the icedtea7 2.1.1 branch     then i can assign me to a workitem to do one release from that branch in this cycle
[16:20] <xranby> this would create an official icedtea release with the included arm port
[16:20] <doko> xranby, +1
[16:22] <xranby> focus will be heavily switched to java 7
[16:22] <xranby> i think we will drop support on the many parralel icedtea6 branches
[16:25] <xranby> ideally we want icedtea7 2.1.1 branch to pass the tck before releasing it
[16:25] <nthykier> yeah
[16:25] <xranby> are calxeda pleased with the openjdk performance?
[16:25] <doko> xranby, it's the 2.1 branch, 2.1.3 would be fine for this as well
[16:26] <xranby> No
[16:26] <jamespage> xranby, have we got access to TCK for Java7 yet?
[16:26] <jamespage> :-(
[16:26] <xranby> i do not have access to the tck
[16:26] <nthykier> Do we have a "clear" picture of how "far" the Java6 -> Java7 transition is (in terms of FTBFS issues)
[16:26] <xranby> its unclear if i can get access to it since it require signing a nda
[16:26] <xranby> i will work closely on QA with the readhat team
[16:26] <xranby> who have access to the tck
[16:27] <xranby> Red Hat
[16:27] <jamespage> xranby, great - I expect some people in Ubuntu will as well so hopefully we can help there as well
[16:27] <doko> nthykier, jamespage had used some user tags for these, but can't remember which ones ;)
[16:27] <doko> in addition to this, we'll need some gcj patches from trunk for these archs which don't have an openjdk
[16:28] <nthykier> When will the "syncs calm down"?
[16:28] <gnu_andrew> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Java7_Package_Rebuild_Status is the Fedora effort if that helps
[16:28] <jamespage> nthykier, ~3weeks ish
[16:29] <xranby> gnu_andrew: thanks
[16:29] <doko> nthykier, they should already, but the merges need to be done
[16:29] <gnu_andrew> doko, we don't even have 2.1.1 yet, steady on :-)
[16:29] <doko> I didn't claim that
[16:29] <jamespage> nthykier, we should have a better view by the end of this month
[16:30] <doko> which maybe is a bit late for the debian freeze
[16:30] <xranby> will ubuntu revert to debian armv4t+ for armel?
[16:30] <nthykier> jamespage: unfortunately "the end of this month" is a little too close to the Debian freezy
[16:30] <doko> xranby, no
[16:30] <nthykier> s/freezy/freeze/
[16:30] <jamespage> nthykier, OK - the implication being we won;t be able to land fixes back into Debian in the short term?
[16:31]  * jamespage is not familiar with the debian release process
[16:31] <gnu_andrew> today is the first I've heard of most of this.  It would be really helpful if we had more input on when/what releases are needed on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:31] <nthykier> it will be difficult at best
[16:32] <jamespage> nthykier, esp if they are to support something that is happening in Ubuntu that has no immediate impact in Debian I guess
[16:32] <nthykier> yeah
[16:32] <jamespage> gnu_andrew, what would make life easier?  a head up in advance on what we are doing for the next release as soon as WE know?
[16:33] <nthykier> unless there is a "strong" driving force (e.g. the debian security team) pushing for Java7, I think it will next to impossible to get it in after the freeze starts
[16:33] <jamespage> nthykier, OK - are they aware of the situation with OpenJDK6?
[16:34] <doko> nthykier, unfortunately I didn't see this in the past
[16:34] <nthykier> don't know if they are
[16:34]  * jamespage adds an action
[16:36] <gnu_andrew> jamespage, yeah, and if you need/would prefer a release of some branch
[16:37] <gnu_andrew> doko, nthykier: I doubt Debian wants to be doing their own security support for 6, especially given the limited resources they seem to have on it
[16:37] <xranby> on testing: do we have openjdk tests running on top of the ubuntu   OHIO? test QA framework?
[16:37] <xranby> also .. can we provide preview releases using JuJu to get say openjdk8 running
[16:37] <doko> OHIO?
[16:38] <xranby> doko: whats the QA framework named that the QA team invented during the precise cycle?
[16:38] <gnu_andrew> jamespage, currently I'm mostly shooting in the dark when it comes to releases, which isn't good
[16:38] <jamespage> gnu_andrew, OK - I've actioned myself to talk to you about that...
[16:38] <doko> xranby, the jtreg tests are run with every package upload, same for all third party java packages which provide a testsuite
[16:38] <xranby> jamespage: ideally use juju to compile openjdk 8 from source and install it
[16:39] <jamespage> xranby, possible -= fancy giving it a try?  I can help out
[16:39] <gnu_andrew> jamespage, thanks, much appreciated!
[16:39] <xranby> jamespage: yes i fancy giving it a shot
[16:39] <xranby> to help bring the latest test releases into ubuntu fast
[16:39] <xranby> of openjdk
[16:40] <xranby> i will pass the question to gnu_andrew
[16:40] <xranby> opebnjdk 8 have some interesting new features
[16:40] <xranby> like jigsaw
[16:40] <gnu_andrew> xranby, that's another good point.  I'd like to see 8 moving out earlier so we don't have this issue again.
[16:40] <gnu_andrew> especially as it will change much more than 7 did
[16:42] <gnu_andrew> and getting Debian/Ubuntu's feedback on Jigsaw before it is stable and unchangeable is very important
[16:42] <gnu_andrew> (Jigsaw is the module system for the JDK)
[16:42] <xranby> Jigsaw uses .deb!
[16:42] <xranby> (i think)
[16:43] <nthykier> At least, Debian had a GSoC student on Jigsaw
[16:43] <gnu_andrew> xranby, I've honestly lost track.  dalibor was dabbling with .deb at one point but we really need to get our hands dirty and find out
[16:43] <gnu_andrew> biggest problem at the moment is so much work to do and too few hands on deck to be honest
[16:44] <xranby> i would like to say
[16:44] <xranby> if someone want to help out with a thumb2 -> arm port
[16:44] <xranby> then we can get a jit running on a raspberry pi
[16:45] <xranby> it would be a quite good work for a computer sciense student
[16:45] <xranby> another qusetion
[16:45] <xranby> question: is calxeda in the room?
[16:45] <jamespage> no
[16:46] <xranby> any comments on openjdk performance on their servers?
[16:46] <xranby> ok
[16:46] <xranby> is everything noted down in the pad
[16:46] <xranby> cheers
[16:46] <xranby> thank you for attending
[16:47] <xranby> looking forward to a rapid openjdk adoption
[16:47] <xranby> of new upstream openjdk releases
[16:47] <xranby> thank you as well at #uds for a nice session
[16:47] <xranby> and thank you gnu_andrew for giving the Fedora Red Hat input on things!
[16:49] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
[16:50] <gnu_andrew> xranby, I wouldn't claim to represent Fedora.  I barely even use it ;-)  More upstream.
[16:50] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 4 minutes left in this session!
[16:50] <xranby> gnu_andrew: ok, thank you for correcting me..
[16:51] <gnu_andrew> xranby, just don't want the responsibility as speaking for Fedora.  Nowhere near qualified :-)
[16:51] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 3 minutes left in this session!
[16:52] <xranby> last reminder: Use JamVM if you run into any issues with hotspot
[16:52] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 2 minutes left in this session!
[16:53] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 1 minute left in this session!
[16:54] <gnu_andrew> xranby, not cacao?
[16:54] <xranby> and cacao
[16:54] <xranby> of course
[16:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[16:55] <xranby> if you got a Raspberry PI use the cacao JIT: https://docs.google.com/a/gudinna.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0ArR4FJuzvXEsdDZkek5QcXd3c2ROMm1IajE1WmFwYkE&oid=3&zx=ipo09v1y3q53
[16:55] <gnu_andrew> xranby, does http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20495/foundations-q-java7/ work for you?  Logged in via my account but just taking me round in circles
[16:56] <xranby> gnu_andrew: yes it work for me
[16:56] <xranby> i can paste you a summary
[16:57] <xranby> gnu_andrew: http://fpaste.org/jkjV/
[17:02] <SpamapS>  ______  _____ __   __            _____  _______
[17:03] <SpamapS> |  ____||_   _|\ \ / /     /\    |  __ \|__   __|
[17:03] <SpamapS> | |__     | |   \ V /     /  \   | |__) |  | |
[17:03] <SpamapS> |  __|    | |    > <     / /\ \  |  ___/   | |
[17:03] <SpamapS> | |      _| |_  / . \   / ____ \ | |       | |
[17:03] <SpamapS> |_|     |_____|/_/ \_\ /_/    \_\|_|       |_|
[17:03] <SpamapS>  _  __ _______  _    _ __   __ ____            _____
[17:03] <SpamapS> | |/ /|__   __|| |  | |\ \ / /|  _ \    /\    |_   _|
[17:03] <SpamapS> | ' /    | |   | |__| | \ V / | |_) |  /  \     | |
[17:03] <SpamapS> |  <     | |   |  __  |  > <  |  _ <  / /\ \    | |
[17:03] <SpamapS> | . \    | |   | |  | | / . \ | |_) |/ ____ \  _| |_
[17:03] <SpamapS> |_|\_\   |_|   |_|  |_|/_/ \_\|____//_/    \_\|_____|
[17:04] <SpamapS> Who is there? Nobody?
[17:05] <SpamapS> Perfect! ^^
[17:05] <doko> you are watched ;p
[17:06] <ansgar> doko: But there is no video stream. How can you watch? :)
[17:07] <SpamapS> We need Ben Howard and Robie Basak as well, I don't hear them
[17:07] <smoser> hello?
[17:08] <DonKult_uds> smoser: hello, where are you?
[17:08] <smoser> i left session. i ddin't actually know this got scheduled.
[17:08] <smoser> if you want to discuss, we can, i can come
[17:09] <smoser> but i have no new information since wednesday morning.
[17:09] <SpamapS> bring utlemming and rbasak
[17:09] <smoser> k. i'll come down there.
[17:09] <DonKult_uds> i have… i didn't realized that another session was sheduled so started a discussion on dak -> https://lists.debian.org/debian-dak/2012/05/msg00006.html
[17:11] <SpamapS> can perhaps be moved to the next hour.. there are not many sessions for 11:00 - 11:55
[17:16] <SpamapS>        apt | 0.8.16~exp12ubuntu10 |       precise | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
[17:20] <SpamapS> not apt pinning
[17:21] <SpamapS> host pinning
[17:27] <SpamapS> We're giving mirror admins the *option* to run the hash generation if they update aggressively.
[17:29] <ansgar> Requiring all mirrors to update seems not a good idea.  That might take quite a while.
[17:30]  * mvo is now listening
[17:32] <SpamapS> You can be atomic with 1 symlink mv atomicity and using hardlinks but nobody does that.
[17:33] <SpamapS> Better to have the format intrinsically made to handle skew between fetch of different files.
[17:33] <ansgar> You could also poulate a dists-new/ and then replace the old one.
[17:33] <SpamapS> ansgar: right, thats the hardlink method (since storing two mirrors would be a bit wasteful)
[17:34] <ansgar> Though it wouldn't help with clients that have the old Release and then get the new Packages. Which I believe what you want.
[17:34] <mvo> I think if we can we should do both, right? improve the server side mirror script plus add code to apt to make it more robust
[17:34] <mvo> if its orthogonal we should do both, right?
[17:34] <ansgar> (I never get those hash mismatches btw. ;) )
[17:36] <SpamapS> ansgar: We each do 100 apt-get updates a day during the dev cycle and we see them a lot.
[17:37] <SpamapS> Right, multiarch added more files to fetch
[17:38] <smoser> to re-iterate. we are interested in a solution.
[17:38] <SpamapS> BTW, somewhat related data point.. work is beginning this cycle of Ubuntu to combine main and universe into just 'main' (support will be communicated via seeds, not component)
[17:39] <mvo> sorry if I missed stuff, but dosn't option B with the timestamp/version in the http path fixes the proxy issue not too?
[17:39] <mvo> i.e. it will be different for each Packages file, no?
[17:39] <mvo> or am I missing something here?
[17:39] <SpamapS> We helped w/ the squid issue in Ubuntu btw by setting Expires to teh same value for Release and Packages*
[17:39] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
[17:39] <smoser> mvo, it would fix the proxy issue, yes.
[17:40] <mvo> thanks smoser, so what is the problem with option (b) then? I'm not fully sure that I understand the current discussion? note that I'm not favoring one particular one, I just try to understand the issue
[17:40] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 4 minutes left in this session!
[17:41] <mvo> and also why do we need to change ever client? it would be libapt doing it, no?
[17:41] <ansgar> mvo: debmirror and friends might need changes as well I assume. At least if they want to take advantage of it.
[17:41] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 3 minutes left in this session!
[17:41] <mvo> thanks, I think I understand
[17:42] <SpamapS> Do we have actions from this btw? Or are the actions from the main blueprint enough?
[17:42] <mvo> ok
[17:42] <mvo> you could have a smart proxy that would ignore de.archive.ubuntu.com, archive.ubuntu.com etc as the hashsum is the only relevant piece
[17:42] <mvo> that is pretty clever
[17:42] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 2 minutes left in this session!
[17:43] <mvo> ansgar: right, the mirror stuff is client work too
[17:43] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 1 minute left in this session!
[17:44] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[17:44] <SpamapS> ok, actions: move discussion forward in mailing list, and develop PoC
[17:45] <smoser> ansgar, you're right . debmirror would need improvements to know about either format acutally.
[17:45] <smoser> but with by-hash, i can update my mirror without the upstrem mirror to me implementing it.
[17:45] <smoser> (and keep the signed release)
[17:45] <SpamapS> I added the work item for rbasak to http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-q-servercloud-q-apt-improvements
[17:47] <mvo> proof of concept for server? client? both?
[17:47] <mvo> apt-get / apt-ftparchive?
[17:48] <smoser> mvo both.
[17:48] <mvo> cool
[17:48] <SpamapS> I would think it has to be on both
[17:48] <smoser> server is almost implemented in the ehterpad
[17:48] <smoser> (ie, its really easy!)
[17:49] <smoser> ansgar, mvo so, just so everyone here is clear, myself, and rbasak are most interestd in getting a solution.
[17:49]  * mvo looks
[17:49] <mvo> right, we are all on the same page I think :)
[17:49] <mvo> we want to fix it too
[17:49] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/976863/
[17:50] <mvo> I think at least the apt-get part is pretty simple too for by-hash (well, for both)
[17:51] <mvo> a flag would be nice in the release file in both methods
[17:51] <mvo> but I guess that is hard for the mirrors that have not converted
[17:52] <ansgar> mvo: You need to check by downloading in any case.  You might have the new Release, but the mirror script might not mirror the new files.
[17:52]  * mvo nods
[17:54] <ansgar> Installers are also mentioned in Release. (A file with checksums actually.)
[17:54] <ansgar> Would the schemes store those as well in by-hash?
[17:55]  * mvo gtg
[17:55] <SpamapS> its only the lists
[17:56] <smoser> ansgar, i'm sorry, i didn't follow your question, i think/hope SpamapS did.
[17:57] <SpamapS> by-hash/2029447895 does not instill as much confidence as by-hash/affaf8faf5a5f8a9cc9c99e9b9b9ffa70900aff76f6f
[17:58] <SpamapS> crc32
[17:58] <SpamapS> ftw
[17:58] <SpamapS> ;)
[17:59] <SpamapS>  ____________________________________
[17:59] <SpamapS> / enough comedy, time to go to other \
[17:59] <SpamapS> \ sessions! Cheers                   /
[17:59] <SpamapS>  ------------------------------------
[17:59] <SpamapS>         \   ^__^
[17:59] <SpamapS>          \  (oo)\_______
[17:59] <SpamapS>             (__)\       )\/\
[17:59] <SpamapS>                 ||----w |
[17:59] <SpamapS>                 ||     ||
[18:02] <DonKult_uds> ansgar: thanks for coming on such a short notice! Any preference yet? ;)
[18:03] <smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule is our release schdule
[18:03] <smoser> ansgar, thank you.
[18:05] <ansgar> DonKult_uds: Hmm, not yet.  I'm not sure what would be better to use for the mirrors (and I don't have much experience with the mirror part).
[18:49] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
[18:50] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 4 minutes left in this session!
[18:51] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 3 minutes left in this session!
[18:52] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 2 minutes left in this session!
[18:53] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 1 minute left in this session!
[18:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[19:05] <yaili_> hi
[19:06] <yaili_> hi david
[19:06] <yaili_> no worries :)
[19:11] <dpm> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20729/community-p-appdevelopers-site-incremental-improvements/
[19:42] <yaili_> I'd be happy to give feedback
[19:42] <yaili_> yes
[19:42] <yaili_> yeah, go ahead
[19:42] <yaili_> "Consultancy" :D
[19:50] <yaili_> makes sense, I think the idea in the first phase was to just get people going, so the focus on get started was more important
[19:50] <yaili_> now that people might know the site, makes sense to make make news more prominent
[19:50] <yaili_> I think it will need a bit of UX
[19:51] <yaili_> I will add a note to the web team that would be good for a UX to look at it
[19:52] <yaili_> ok, I'll talk to them on Monday, I'll present both options: a) we do it, b) someone helps us and we're feedback/help
[19:52] <yaili_> sure
[19:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
[19:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 4 minutes left in this session!
[19:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 3 minutes left in this session!
[19:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 2 minutes left in this session!
[19:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 1 minute left in this session!
[19:59] <yaili_> thanks o/
[20:00] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[22:02] <SpamapS>            _       __  __   ____    _____  _______
[22:02] <SpamapS>     /\    | |     |  \/  | / __ \  / ____||__   __|
[22:03] <SpamapS>    /  \   | |     | \  / || |  | || (___     | |
[22:03] <SpamapS>   / /\ \  | |     | |\/| || |  | | \___ \    | |
[22:03] <SpamapS>  / ____ \ | |____ | |  | || |__| | ____) |   | |
[22:03] <SpamapS> /_/    \_\|______||_|  |_| \____/ |_____/    |_|
[22:03] <SpamapS>  _____    ____   _   _  ______
[22:03] <SpamapS> |  __ \  / __ \ | \ | ||  ____|
[22:03] <SpamapS> | |  | || |  | ||  \| || |__
[22:03] <SpamapS> | |  | || |  | || . ` ||  __|
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[22:03] <SpamapS> |_____/  \____/ |_| \_||______|
[22:06] <SpamapS> This is my dream session.. Don't take it away from me! Upstart and Juju in perfect harmony... ;)
[22:06] <SpamapS> I printed out materials you can find them under your chairs...
[22:07] <jamespage> ?
[22:07] <SpamapS> Yes sort of
[22:07] <SpamapS> I did not file this one
[22:08] <SpamapS> The idea is to make sure that its really easy to use an upstart job in your charm
[22:08] <SpamapS> Yeah, and I think we skipped this topic
[22:08] <SpamapS> Its not really a 1 hour conversation...
[22:09] <SpamapS> Just a "anybody have ideas on how to make it easy and/or encourage it"
[22:09] <SpamapS> Upstart jobs are so simple..
[22:10] <SpamapS> IMO upstart job is the obvious way to start a service deployed by a charm.
[22:10] <SpamapS> Nor am I. :)
[22:11] <SpamapS> Here's what I think.. we talked about "flag bearing charms" that implement all best practices. We can pick 1 or 2 that do it right, and make sure they're known as such.
[22:11] <SpamapS> +1's all around?
[22:12] <jamespage> +1
[22:12] <SpamapS> The start/stop hooks are horribly misunderstood
[22:12] <SpamapS> I think you just got it wrong ;)
[22:13] <SpamapS> Even w/ an upstart job, you need to have the action required to start/stop it in start/stop hooks
[22:13] <SpamapS> start/stop can be called w/o rebooting the machine
[22:14] <SpamapS> No templates needed.. most jobs are 3 or 4 lines
[22:14] <SpamapS> james hunt.. I have a question on a potential feature
[22:15] <jamespage> so good examples and some extra information as comments in the hooks to help people understand what does what
[22:15] <SpamapS> lxc containers cannot be run without network abstraction because of upstart's private netlink socket ...
[22:16] <SpamapS> can we create some way for upstart to detect that it is running in a container that does not have network namespaced, and listen somewhere else?
[22:16] <SpamapS> (this is unrelated to the blueprint topic)
[22:17] <SpamapS> no, /sbin/init fails
[22:18] <SpamapS> yes but only if your container has the network namespaced
[22:18] <SpamapS> if you let the container inherit the host's networking, /sbin/init cannot listen on the netlink socket.
[22:18] <SpamapS> AH
[22:19] <SpamapS> ok, because we wanted to use LXC to contain juju units without namespacing the network, but we can't
[22:20] <SpamapS> Ok, thought it was upstart's problem. Ok, thats all from me. :)
[22:20]  * SpamapS un-hijacks the session
[22:21] <SpamapS> For ~charmers .. grand-ballroom-a would be a good spot to go to see how ubuntu is unblocking their review/contributor processes
[22:21]  * SpamapS goes there now
[22:22] <SpamapS>   ____   _   _  ______   __  __   ____   _____   ______
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[22:22] <SpamapS> | |  | || . ` ||  __|   | |\/| || |  | ||  _  / |  __|
[22:22] <SpamapS> | |__| || |\  || |____  | |  | || |__| || | \ \ | |____
[22:22] <SpamapS>  \____/ |_| \_||______| |_|  |_| \____/ |_|  \_\|______|
[22:22] <SpamapS>   _____  ______   _____  _____  _____  ____   _   _
[22:22] <SpamapS>  / ____||  ____| / ____|/ ____||_   _|/ __ \ | \ | |
[22:22] <SpamapS> | (___  | |__   | (___ | (___    | | | |  | ||  \| |
[22:22] <SpamapS>  \___ \ |  __|   \___ \ \___ \   | | | |  | || . ` |
[22:22] <SpamapS>  ____) || |____  ____) |____) | _| |_| |__| || |\  |
[22:22] <SpamapS> |_____/ |______||_____/|_____/ |_____|\____/ |_| \_|
[22:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
[22:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 4 minutes left in this session!
[22:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 3 minutes left in this session!
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[22:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 1 minute left in this session!
[22:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[23:20] <SpamapS> o/
[23:24] <xranby1> i am having issues connecting to the icecast audio server
[23:32] <SpamapS> sqlite does table locking, so multi-user will just be single threaded
[23:35] <SpamapS> sounds good :)
[23:43] <SpamapS> 1 year
[23:43] <SpamapS> 8.04 == 2008 + 5 == 2013
[23:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 5 minutes left in this session!
[23:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 4 minutes left in this session!
[23:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 3 minutes left in this session!
[23:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 2 minutes left in this session!
[23:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: 1 minute left in this session!
[23:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-f: This session has ended.
[23:59] <SpamapS> __          __ ______   __  __            _____   ______   _____  _______  _
[23:59] <SpamapS> \ \        / /|  ____| |  \/  |    /\    |  __ \ |  ____| |_   _||__   __|| |
[23:59] <SpamapS>  \ \  /\  / / | |__    | \  / |   /  \   | |  | || |__      | |     | |   | |
[23:59] <SpamapS>   \ \/  \/ /  |  __|   | |\/| |  / /\ \  | |  | ||  __|     | |     | |   | |
[23:59] <SpamapS>    \  /\  /   | |____  | |  | | / ____ \ | |__| || |____   _| |_    | |   |_|
[23:59] <SpamapS>     \/  \/    |______| |_|  |_|/_/    \_\|_____/ |______| |_____|   |_|   (_)