[00:55] <pbuckley> pbuckley@panda:~/thrift$ apt-cache search libtoolize
[00:55] <pbuckley> pbuckley@panda:~/thrift$
[00:55] <pbuckley> is this expected?
[00:57] <infinity> pbuckley: Yes, there's no such package.
[00:57] <infinity> pbuckley: You're looking for libtool.
[00:58] <infinity> pbuckley: And possibly also autoconf and automake.
[00:58] <pbuckley> thank you
[00:58] <infinity> pbuckley: (note that command-not-found would have told you)
[00:58] <infinity> adconrad@cthulhu:~$ libtoolize
[00:58] <infinity> The program 'libtoolize' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
[00:58] <infinity> sudo apt-get install libtool
[00:58] <pbuckley> ill be sure to check there in the future
[00:59] <pbuckley> i rely a little to much on apt i suppose
[01:14] <GrueMaster> Actually, infinity that doesn't work for me on a fresh netboot install with basic server and ssh server installed.
[01:15] <twb> infinity: you can turn that off per-user if you want
[01:15] <twb>  # Ignore Ubuntu's attempt to slow exit(126) to a crawl.
[01:15] <twb>  unset command_not_found_handle
[01:15] <twb> ...in .shrc or .bashrc, whichever you use
[01:29] <lilstevie> twb, but the average user does not
[01:30] <twb> Sure, which is why I don't simply uninstall that package from shared systems
[01:30] <twb> But I didn't read enough of the scrollback, and misunderstood what infinity was getting at
[01:31] <lilstevie> fair enoug
[01:31] <lilstevie> +h
[02:32] <pbuckley> out of curiosity, why is there no thrift ubuntu package?
[02:35] <GrueMaster> pbuckley: Erm, what is it?
[02:35] <pbuckley> http://thrift.apache.org/
[02:35] <pbuckley> Thrift is a software framework for scalable cross-language services development. It combines a software stack with a code generation engine to build services that work efficiently and seamlessly between C++, Java, Python, PHP, Ruby, Erlang, Perl, Haskell, C#, Cocoa, JavaScript, Node.js, Smalltalk, and OCaml.
[02:37] <GrueMaster> Yea, reading the web site now.  Not sure, but it is probably one of those things that slipped under the radar.  We can't always package everything out there.  You can, and propose it for universe.
[02:37] <steev_> mmm, rsyslog doesn't actually appear to... log
[02:37] <twb> I think you missed a couple of buzzwords
[02:37] <steev_> at least, i don't have the usual suspects in /var/log
[02:38] <twb> steev_: is it running?  Do you have an entry like "*.* /var/log/foo" in your rsyslog.conf / .conf.d/*.conf ?
[02:38] <twb> Wikipedia's definition is: Apache Thrift, a remote procedure call (RPC) framework developed at Facebook for "scalable cross-language services development".
[02:38] <steev_> twb: whatever is default in precise, i tend to not mess around with the default ubuntu configs, it always seems to break things
[02:38] <pbuckley> its a requirement for scribe
[02:38] <pbuckley> which is also awesome
[02:39] <twb> steev_: should work then, although I haven't checked precise it shouldn't be much different from oneiric and lucid
[02:40] <steev_> pgrep rsyslog returns 825, and ls /var/log is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/860000
[02:41] <steev_> actually
[02:41] <twb> steev_: you have log entries there, so what's the big deal
[02:41] <steev_> looking at 50-default.conf it looks like the usual suspects are commented out
[02:41] <steev_> twb: no messages, no daemon or cron.log
[02:42] <steev_> are they commented out on purpose on arm?
[02:42] <infinity> No.
[02:42] <twb> AFAIK no, but I'm no expert
[02:43] <infinity> You don't have these two?
[02:43] <infinity> auth,authpriv.*                 /var/log/auth.log
[02:43] <infinity> *.*;auth,authpriv.none          -/var/log/syslog
[02:43] <infinity> (And a few others)
[02:45] <steev_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/860004 is the 50-default.conf
[02:45] <steev_> messages is deprecated then? and everything should point at syslog?
[02:46] <GrueMaster> steev_: Yes.  It has been that way for a while on ubuntu.
[02:46] <GrueMaster> (I can't even remember seeing a messages log in Ubuntu).
[02:47] <steev_> ah, okay, good to know.  messages is standard on... pretty much every distro, that i knew of.  and it existed around maverick and i'm pretty sure i had it back when i had natty installed on my amd64 box
[02:48] <GrueMaster> Oops.  I take it back.  My lucid system still spews in /var/log/messages.
[02:49] <GrueMaster> I think we switched in either Natty or Oneiric.
[02:49] <GrueMaster> I don't have a natty system running atm, but my oneiric box shows no signs of a messages log.
[02:49] <GrueMaster> And my maverick systems do.
[02:50] <GrueMaster> (they're stable to the point I never bother to look at the logs, hence why I missed it).
[02:50] <pbuckley> # ls messages
[02:50] <pbuckley> ls: cannot access messages: No such file or directory
[02:50] <pbuckley> oneiric
[02:51] <pbuckley> likewise for precise
[02:52] <infinity> There was no point in duplicating everything across multiple logs.
[02:53] <infinity> People who want fine-grained control and splitting can, but it disn't make sense as a default, so we stopped.
[02:53] <twb> 13:50 <pbuckley> ls: cannot access messages: No such file or directory
[02:53] <twb> That's because Ubuntu is not RHEL
[02:54] <twb> The main logs are /var/log/syslog and /var/log/auth.log; by default all logs passing through syslog(3) should land in at least one of those.
[02:54] <steev_> infinity: i'm fine, syslog seems to == what i was looking for
[02:55] <twb> Sorry, I didn't twig that you were expecting RH-flavoured log file names
[02:56] <infinity> twb: Well, to be fair, that used to be pretty standard everywhere. :P
[02:56] <infinity> But yeah, like I said, we came to the conclusion that duplicating everything was just silly in the default setup.
[02:58] <twb> infinity: sorry, I'm too young to remember system 3 and V
[02:58] <pbuckley> lol
[03:20] <steev_> oh how i wish i was that young
[03:25] <twb> steev_: still got your copy of Lion's ? :-)
[03:26] <steev_> sorry, I don't know what that means.  As someone who grew up in Detroit, any time someone mentions Lions, all I can think is football
[03:26] <twb> textbook from UNSW, first easy access to Unix source code
[03:28] <steev_> ahh, i'm not *that* old :)
[03:32] <twb> Hum.  I didn't think sys3 was much younger...
[03:33] <twb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Commentary_on_UNIX_6th_Edition,_with_Source_Code
[03:34] <twb> Wow, that's listed as 1996
[03:34] <twb> Ah, that's a reprint
[03:36] <twb> Research Unix V6 was 1975; Lions was 1976, ... System III was 1982, SysV was 1983. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V
[06:18] <steev_> surprisingly few crashes
[06:18] <steev_> twb: ah, so lions was printed the year before i was born.  i didn't get into computers til i was 5 :(
[12:26] <ogra_> janimo`, hmm, seems the camera doesnt work anymore in the latest precise image (led switches on, but it only takes black pics in the installer)
[12:27] <janimo`> ogra_, is this with yesterday's kernel upload?
[12:27] <janimo`> I know I had gst-properties work with the 1.2 kernel
[12:27] <janimo`> not sure I tried with 2.1
[12:27] <janimo`> I hope webcam is not at odds with the bluetooth headset requirements
[12:27] <ogra_> not sure it made it onto the image yet ... i'll try to upgrade once the installer finished
[12:28] <ogra_> it shouldnt
[12:28] <janimo`> I only uploaded meta this morning
[12:28] <janimo`> so may not have made it , no idea
[12:28] <ogra_> ah, k, then its likely not in the img
[12:28] <ogra_> there is a rebuild running right now though
[12:28] <ogra_> that might pick it up
[12:29] <janimo`> could be a userland issue. I know at one point the ubiquity part worked but cheese did not
[12:30] <ogra_> right, i will test after the install is done
[12:30] <ogra_> its already removing packages
[12:46] <ogra_> janimo`, hmm, the cam works with gstreamer-properties
[12:46] <ogra_> so it must be an ubiquity thing
[12:46] <janimo`> ogra_, so ubiquity/oem cfg issue or bad timing
[12:46] <ogra_> or even fbdev
[12:47] <janimo`> ev or other working on ubiquity would know if anything changed recently in that area
[12:47] <janimo`> or maybe the logs even show some ENODEV type errors
[12:48] <janimo`> and really, is firefox that good already on arm? I still have chromium installed but do not use the ac100 much
[12:48] <ogra_> well, for me on armel FF is faster
[12:48] <ogra_> it starts faster and renders faster
[12:49] <ogra_> and i can easily open 20 tabs without ram issues
[12:49] <ogra_> geeez !
[12:49] <janimo`> if chromium did not slow down that is indeed good news
[12:49] <ogra_> pulling out the SD while being in initrd made the kernel freak out
[12:55] <ogra_> hmm, NM misbehaves
[12:56] <ogra_> it worked fine during install, weird
[13:14] <ogra_> hmpf, i see firmware errors
[13:42]  * ogra_ installs libO for a test
[14:31] <janimo`> ogra_, how's libo? I completely forgot to actually test the deb on armhf
[14:31] <ogra_> runs fine
[14:31] <ogra_> no probs with it at all :)
[14:31]  * ogra_ found another issue though ... not libO related
[14:32] <ogra_> somehow ac100 ends up with a bunch of kde bits installed ... while all other arm images dont
[14:32] <ogra_> the only difference between the images are jasper vs ac100-tarball-installer ... but they have similar deps
[16:26] <Riddell> GrueMaster: well if I don't even have a power supply it's not going to work right?
[16:26] <Riddell> where do I buy a power supply?
[16:26] <GrueMaster> Do you have a USB Y cable?
[16:26] <Riddell> umm what's one of those?
[16:27] <GrueMaster> It doesn't take 3-4 amps to power on the board and run a desktop image.
[16:27] <GrueMaster> They are the cables that ship with external usb drives.
[16:28] <Riddell> GrueMaster: http://htc-linux.org/wiki/images/6/64/Usb-y-power-cable.jpg ?
[16:28] <GrueMaster> I've done some power measurements here, and under load running the lamp stack, the highest power load was 1.5A with drive.
[16:28] <GrueMaster> yes.
[16:29] <GrueMaster> That is the cable.
[16:29] <Riddell> umm what plugs in where with that?
[16:30] <GrueMaster> The two large plugs go to a pc or laptop or powered USB hub.  The mini plug goes in the panda.
[16:31] <Riddell> that image shows two USB male plugs and one USB female, all large
[16:31] <GrueMaster> You should be able to get HDMI & USB keyboard/mouse.  What you probably won't get is wifi, bluetooth, video acceleration, and addon board power.
[16:32] <GrueMaster> Woa, didn't see the other end.  A USB Mini cable should plug off of that then.  If you have that cable.
[16:34] <Riddell> GrueMaster: ok I have a cable which is usb male to usb mini male so that plugs into my laptop and the pandaboard
[16:34] <Riddell> and I even get a green LED turning on
[16:35] <GrueMaster> It needs to be a y cable.  Not sure a single USB port will supply enough power.
[16:37] <Riddell> oh so it needs two usb male to plug into my laptop and a usb mini to plug into the panda?
[16:38] <GrueMaster> yes.
[16:38] <Riddell> GrueMaster: ok they'll go on the shopping list
[16:38] <Riddell> what else do I need?
[16:38] <Riddell> SD Card?  what size?
[16:38] <Riddell> HDMI to VGA?
[16:39] <GrueMaster> SD card.  4G or better.  Class 10 preferable.
[16:39] <GrueMaster> There is no HDMI to VGA.  HDMI is digital, VGA is analog.  You can get converters, but monitors are just as cheap.
[16:40] <Riddell> oh, so no easy way to get it to work with my vga monitor?
[16:40] <GrueMaster> Not that I know of.
[16:41] <Riddell> ok that puts a stopped in my plan
[16:41] <Riddell> I need to ask jason if I can expense an HDMI monitor then
[16:43] <GrueMaster> Does your monitor do DVI?
[16:44] <GrueMaster> Riddell: ^^^
[16:45] <Riddell> no
[16:45] <Riddell> VGA only
[16:45] <GrueMaster> Time for a new monitor anyways then.  But you can convert hdmi to dvi.
[16:46] <GrueMaster> DVI supports bot analog & digital signals.
[16:46] <GrueMaster> *both
[16:48] <GrueMaster> Bestbuy lists monitors for under $100 that have VGA/DVI that will work.  I'm sure Amazon does too.  Your local shops should also carry them.
[17:28] <prpplague> rsalveti: know anyone on the linaro samsung landing team?
[17:39] <rsalveti> prpplague: not from top of my head, would need to check the team
[17:39] <rsalveti> guess nobody is around at irc
[17:40] <prpplague> yea seems so
[17:40] <rsalveti> but you can simply mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if there's something you want the lt to read
[18:02] <GrueMaster> infinity: Can you ping me on #arm?  Not sure if the connection is still up.
[18:03] <infinity> GrueMaster: I would if you were there.
[18:04] <GrueMaster> Hmmm.  Nothing here to indicate a dropped connection, except silence.
[18:04] <GrueMaster> Really hate that.
[18:05] <infinity> Down with Quassel, up with irssi? :)
[18:58] <prasana> What do you guys think are the benefits of running ubuntu's new idea of running ubuntu on android
[19:03] <GrueMaster> For phones that are designed for it, it makes an excellent platform for doing presentations and stuff.
[19:03] <GrueMaster> Lot more portable than a laptop or tablet.
[19:06] <GrueMaster> For example, I have this keyboard, and if I had that phone, I could go to a trade show (or any other forum) and do a presentation literally out of pocket (if the forum had a screen).
[19:06] <GrueMaster> http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/VT2012/VisionTek-CandyBoard-Bluetooth-Keyboard.jpg
[19:11] <NekoXP> it's a shame it's only for systems like that Motorola thing where it docks into the back of a laptop shell
[19:11] <NekoXP> and that already happened, it's a product shipping already..
[19:12] <GrueMaster> The demo I saw had a simple dock that had usb & HDMI out (plus charging capabilities).  The doc was smaller than the phone.
[19:13] <NekoXP> http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile+Phone+Accessories/Docking-Stations/Atrix-Laptop-Dock-US-EN
[19:13] <NekoXP> it's a fucking lovely idea, shame basically nobody cares
[19:13] <GrueMaster> The laptop dock is just one example.
[19:14] <GrueMaster> http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile+Phone+Accessories/Docking-Stations/HD-Station-for-ATRIX2-US-EN
[19:14] <GrueMaster> This is what I'm talking about.
[19:16] <NekoXP> again, I doubt anybody really cares about this kind of functionality.. part of the problem is having "full firefox" doesn't make much sense at that level, presentation software is going to suck somewhat, while you can do what they're doing (run something in a chroot in Android), it means you're going to lack all the integration from Android to phone except for "the sd card is linked in to the chroot so I can read the presentation on Ope
[19:16] <NekoXP> nOffice as well as in the Android document reader".. if you wanted to do a presentation out of pocket a better idea would be to have proper presentation software for Android, unless your goal was to edit it at the last minute between puling it out of pocket and doing the presentation
[19:17] <NekoXP> at which point you probably had your laptop with you anyway and you can tether it to your phone
[19:17] <NekoXP> convergence only works if people don't have the things you're trying to converge already and rely on them
[19:18] <NekoXP> plus: Apple doesn't need a "full Firefox, Linux OS" on their iPad or iPhone, and all told, Atrix stuff isn't any cheaper than either Apple product :)
[19:18] <GrueMaster> Oh really?  Then what's the point of having a smart phone in the first place?
[19:19] <NekoXP> certainly not to do work.
[19:19] <GrueMaster> Especially if you already have your laptop?
[19:19] <NekoXP> I use it to browse email, occasionally check facebook, play WWF or Angry Birds, and it's very very handy for Skype
[19:20] <NekoXP> it also has a camera
[19:20] <NekoXP> and is an mp3 player
[19:20] <GrueMaster> All things you can just do on your laptop.
[19:20] <NekoXP> what, take a family photo on my VAIO?
[19:20] <NekoXP> or go running with it strapped to my back? it's 12lbs...
[19:20] <GrueMaster> But, can your laptop fit in your pocket for when you need to travel for a presentation?
[19:21] <NekoXP> no but I tend to travel with a little more than a pair of underwear stuffed in my jacket pocket just in case. I have a bag for all this stuff
[19:21] <GrueMaster> The point is, not everyone will want this.  hell, a lot of people don't even have cell phones, let alone smart phones.
[19:22] <NekoXP> the sales of the lapdock and even the atrix dock have been slow at best...
[19:22] <GrueMaster> I do know of several people where this would make more sense than lugging a laptop, even a small netbook.
[19:22] <NekoXP> I don't care what verizon says, having a tablet doesn't mean your 7 year old kid can open a lemonade business
[19:23] <GrueMaster> Again, early market, and not for everyone.
[19:23] <NekoXP> tablet market has basically bottomed out already because it's not about having a tablet, but about having an iPad or a Kindle. If you're not one of those people don't look at you in the store.
[19:24] <NekoXP> what makes people want those is iTunes or Amazon, it isn't running presentations at work.
[19:24] <GrueMaster> I remember an excellent quote from the guys that created the ascii art driver for quake 2 that applies here:  If you have to ask why, this isn't for you.
[19:25] <NekoXP> I know why, I also know why the number of people who want it doesn't make a market
[19:25] <GrueMaster> I wonder if Steve Jobs had this argument before coming out with the ipod or the iphone?
[19:26] <GrueMaster> You are essentially arguing chicken/egg theory.
[19:26] <NekoXP> no, because Steve Jobs said "it has iTunes, it could be a sheet of glass with a smiley face painted in dog turd on it, but people would still buy it, so make it"
[19:27] <NekoXP> and he was right.. that sheet of glass smeared in dog turd eclipses every other tablet on the market despite almost identical features, because they don't sell tablets, they sell iPads
[19:27] <NekoXP> to people who already have a MacBook and an iPod.
[19:28] <NekoXP> putting Ubuntu on it doesn't make it replace your laptop, it's just not the same thing.
[19:29] <GrueMaster> That's one point of view.
[19:29] <GrueMaster> But the same argument could be made about other products, like this:http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
[19:29] <NekoXP> it's even not the same thing if they come out with Windows Phone 8 and put Windows 8 ARM on it so you can dock it and use it like a real computer.   Then MS told them their specs were not adequate and made a set of requirements to run Windows.
[19:32] <GrueMaster> (which really sucks on these btw.  I have one).
[19:32] <NekoXP> I think Intel did more than Microsoft for that by making a chipset which had too high expectations of power consumption with very little in the way of performance
[19:32] <NekoXP> I have 3 of the damn things.
[19:33] <NekoXP> one of them bought specifically because it had *TWO* SD card slots, I use it for copying them and imaging
[19:33] <GrueMaster> Not sure on that.  My Acer Aspire One has 4.5 hours of battery life under Ubuntu.
[19:33] <GrueMaster> (the Intel reference).
[19:34] <NekoXP> mine too but it does have a 6-cell battery and weighs 4lbs
[19:34] <NekoXP> they're not light enough, not fast enough, and at full price you may as well get a 15" Dell Inspiron
[19:35] <GrueMaster> Granted, it isn't as good as my AC100 in weight or battery life, but out of the box it performs better.
[19:35] <GrueMaster> I keep it because the size is right for me.  I could have bought a new laptop this year, but for me, I didn't see the benefit.
[19:36] <NekoXP> I tested that and basically figured it's down to really awesome graphics drivers on the Atom, and the actual hard disk instead of the SSD which is frankly not as good as it sounded
[19:36] <GrueMaster> I have a powerful desktop with easy remote access for heavy lifting, and I don't play games enough to justify anything else.
[19:36] <NekoXP> yeah I have an xbox
[19:36] <NekoXP> and I use my VAIO for compiling, on Ubuntu, in VMware (on Windows 7)
[19:37] <NekoXP> and all the other things like writing docs, generating decent PDFs, Photoshop, managing the servers at work (exporting a VM is really cpu intensive apparently)
[19:37] <GrueMaster> I use windows in a VM to test win32-imagewriter and taxes.  Nothing else.
[19:39] <NekoXP> as far as I'm concerned any netbook that doesn't perform like a Core i3 and look like a MacBook Air 11" isn't going to go anywhere.
[19:40] <NekoXP> end of the year that product may actually be something someone can actually make, but convincing them to use Linux or Android is a hard sell, I'm glad for Windows 8 since it might actually give us a viable market to hit
[19:41] <GrueMaster> Again, usage model.
[19:41] <NekoXP> there's always been and always will be a market for nettops, which is great
[19:41] <NekoXP> even if they're not on the desktop and just being used to back digital signage or some university project
[19:41] <GrueMaster> And cracking Microsofts monopoly is extremely difficult when thy don't play fair.
[19:42] <NekoXP> MS don't so much have a monopoly so much as have the best tool for the job
[19:43] <GrueMaster> Erm, sure.
[19:43] <NekoXP> I would agree that in certain respects they are a glistening, glittery poop in a field of less glittery, far stinkier poops. But if you are forced to buy a poop at least get the gold plated one.
[19:44] <navalny_mudak> did anyone use ubuntu on lenovo k1?
[19:44] <NekoXP> the gold might be worth something :)
[19:44] <GrueMaster> I used to own a computer business (before I even knew Linux).  They are very manipulative of the market.
[19:45] <NekoXP> eh.. it's not just Microsoft who do that, I can name a certain astronaut millionaire who doesn't play fair either
[19:45] <infinity> NekoXP: They may or may not have the best tool for the job, but when you can't buy 99% of the PC hardware on the market without an OS, I call that a forced monopoly.
[19:45] <NekoXP> not forced by Microsoft, though - forced by the market
[19:45] <infinity> NekoXP: I'm not even saying I want Ubuntu preinstalled (I don't care), but I *must* buy a copy of Windows just to get the hardware I want.
[19:46] <NekoXP> if you ship a laptop with no Windows on it, people send it back
[19:46] <infinity> NekoXP: Not forced by MS is pretty much a lie.  Vendors get lots of incentives to do it this way.
[19:46] <NekoXP> given that the cost of Windows basically doesn't even factor in to the cost of your laptop given the licensing deals OEMs do on their hardware, you're not actually getting a bad deal, although they will "refund" you if you ask
[19:46] <GrueMaster> I think http://www.system76.com/ would argue that.
[19:46] <NekoXP> that's called volume licensing, and it's not an unfair model
[19:46] <infinity> "forced" is a strong word, perhaps, but nothing in financial markets is "forced" so much as "coerced".
[19:47] <infinity> NekoXP: "volume licensing" shouldn't define what you do with all your hardware.
[19:47] <NekoXP> no, what customers WANT is what defines what they do with it
[19:47] <infinity> NekoXP: And "they will refund if you ask" is also a whole lot more effort than people claim it is (and often just plain not true).
[19:48] <NekoXP> Microsoft use the fact that everyone WANTS windows, whether they know it or not (usually by the disappointment when it boots Fedora Core instead), will not buy a laptop that doesn't come with Windows or MacOS
[19:48] <GrueMaster> Customers want working systems.  When given no options, they go with the only choice.
[19:49] <NekoXP> Dell do ship Ubuntu, but those people who are gullible enough to be pulled into the fallacy of choice of operating system don't make up anything approaching a significant market
[19:49] <infinity> NekoXP: So, your contention is that when purchasing from someone who lets you tailor a system online, offering a "No Operating System preinstalled" option would be against customers' wishes, because they might accidentally click that instead of the (presumably default) "Windows 7 64-bit Preinstalled"?
[19:49] <GrueMaster> Best Buy even has agreements with Microsoft to only sell Windows based systems.  Microsoft allowed them to carry Apple only to not monopolize the market.
[19:50] <NekoXP> infinity, no, I would say offering it by default with "No OS installed" would be against their wishes
[19:50] <rbasak> Don't preinstalled crapware companies also subsidize desktop computer prices? No OS == no crapware == no subsidy == more expensive desktop.
[19:50] <infinity> NekoXP: I wasn't talking defaults, just options.  You tell me that I don't actually want options.
[19:50] <NekoXP> offering it with "Ubuntu Linux 12.04" by default would also not be the default option most people would pick when shopping for a laptop
[19:50] <NekoXP> I'm all for options
[19:51] <GrueMaster> For someone that sells linux based systems, you don't make a very good convincing argument.
[19:51] <NekoXP> you check the sales figures and see a hundred million Windows devices sold and 100,000 Ubuntu devices sold for the same product and you think.. that's 0.1% of the market, the default should be Windows
[19:51] <infinity> rbasak: And yet, I'd still pay a tiny premium to know that none of my purchase price is going to a product (Windows) that I won't be using.
[19:51] <NekoXP> we don't HAVE a choice
[19:52] <NekoXP> Windows doesn't exist for the systems we make, but if it did, we'd sell the shit out of it
[19:52] <infinity> NekoXP: Erm.  Those numbers are meaningless, given that people don't have the choice to purchase most hardware without Windows.
[19:53] <NekoXP> everyone has the choice, GrueMaster just showed a link for it, there was a court precedent allowing users to get a "refund" for the cost of Windows on their device if they didn't actually want it...
[19:53] <rbasak> infinity: yeah - I hate that the figures get skewed by Windows being mandatory in the purchase price.
[19:53] <infinity> NekoXP: Have you ever tried to reclaim your Windows license cost?
[19:53] <NekoXP> that doesn't change that the actual cost to the user for a "Windows license", that sticker on the back of the laptop, and the preinstallation of a partition taking up 10% of your disk space, actually costs the user absolutely nothing
[19:54] <GrueMaster> NekoXP: yes, but you also forget that Microsoft also manipulates the hardware market to only support Windows.
[19:54] <NekoXP> infinity, yeah I did it twice
[19:54] <infinity> NekoXP: I know people who've been in mail-and-phone back-and-forth for well over a year trying to get their silly 50 bucks back.
[19:54] <GrueMaster> Look at the nVidia Ompimus technology in the latest laptops.
[19:54] <NekoXP> I got my $50 back twice
[19:54] <infinity> NekoXP: Well, lucky you.
[19:54] <GrueMaster> *Optimus
[19:55] <NekoXP> of course I used the money to update my Technet subscription so I can put Windows on anything I damn well like
[19:55] <GrueMaster> Look at the real history behind the x86-64 technology.  Look at the history behind the NX bit.  Tell me Microsoft doesn't manipulate the HW market.
[19:55] <infinity> rbasak: I frankly, just dislike someone getting paid for a product they had nothing to do with (my PC running Linux), full stop.  It's why I don't buy HTC phones either.
[19:56] <pbuckley> infinity: i guess i know how you feel about software/hardware patents ;)
[19:56] <GrueMaster> fyi:  I was in Intel processor validation for both of the above technologies.
[19:57] <GrueMaster> infinity: I have Motorola phones and a Nook color, largely because they are standing up to Microsoft's bullying.
[19:57] <NekoXP> the way OEM licensing works is MS set a price per device for each copy of whatever MS software is sold with a device. OEM reports back to MS quarterly and says "we sold X devices" and OEM pays MS. What they don't do is tack a microsoft license to the BOM of every device, otherwise that division would be losing out on every device due to the cost of licensing. It gets handled elsewhere and in a different account.
[19:57] <pbuckley> well it helps that google bought motorola mobile ;)
[19:58] <GrueMaster> (also because they are just very good products).
[19:58] <NekoXP> it costs the people making Dells and selling Dells in Dell nothing to ship Windows, or ship nothing
[19:58] <NekoXP> the same way you can go to a university and show your student ID and get a copy of Windows for free "as long as you use it for schoolwork". This didn't come as a $50 addition to your tuition fee.
[19:59] <GrueMaster> NekoXP: That same argument holds true to Ubuntu preinstalled Dells, but they are harder to find.
[19:59] <infinity> NekoXP: It may cost "nothing" on the small scale of a few machines per million, it obviously costs something overall.
[19:59] <NekoXP> impossible right now, I just tried it :D
[19:59] <NekoXP> infinity, yes but it's not part of the price you pay for the hardware, they recoup that cost on sales of the hardware with the OS anyway with whatever margins they set to do so.
[19:59] <infinity> NekoXP: Explaining away volume licensing in a way that makes it seem free is obviously not true.
[20:00] <pbuckley> mmm koolaid
[20:00] <infinity> NekoXP: Of course it's part of what I pay.  They don't just manufacture the money out of thin air to pay the license.
[20:00] <NekoXP> the objection to getting a refund for Windows on a Windows preinstalled laptop from OEMs was that it's basically free, you shouldn't be able to get $50 for something that didn't come in the BOM
[20:00] <GrueMaster> NekoXP: Did you know that at one point last decade, you couldn't even buy a hard drive without a Windows License attached to it?
[20:00] <NekoXP> you mean the other way around right
[20:01] <NekoXP> I remember buying several hard disks to get a copy of Windows
[20:01] <infinity> NekoXP: It's factored into overall cost of all machines, like an insurance policy.  That doesn't make the cost go away, it just makes it harder to break out without an applied maths degree.
[20:01] <GrueMaster> No.
[20:01] <NekoXP> but I've never bought a hard drive and gotten a sticker with a windows key on it
[20:01] <pbuckley> GrueMaster: now thats not true.. you could buy white box hard drives
[20:01] <GrueMaster> My local shop was told my their MS rep that for them to have an OEM license, they couldn't just sell blank drives.
[20:01] <NekoXP> that's the MS sales rep talking out of his arse
[20:01] <pbuckley> ^^
[20:01] <GrueMaster> This was back in 2004-2005.
[20:02] <GrueMaster> Well, that is the kind of tactics they pull.
[20:02] <NekoXP> and your local shop believed him and added a mysterious $20 to the cost of his drives right?
[20:02] <NekoXP> he paid his $2 to MS for every drive and bumped the price.. he would have done it to make more money and given you that bullshit excuse :D
[20:02] <pbuckley> better then apple imo.. at least microsoft trys to work in the ecosystem
[20:02] <GrueMaster> No, they fought back, but lost their oem status in the process.
[20:02] <GrueMaster> And the company went bust.
[20:03] <pbuckley> (Then again i worked at ms, so im still a little brainwashed)
[20:04] <GrueMaster> The guy that owned that store now only sells cabling.  One of his tech's now owns a shop of his own, but doesn't deal with MS directly.
[20:05] <GrueMaster> I only speak from personal experience or very direct knowledge of close friends.  This is nothing I read or heard rumors about.
[20:06] <pbuckley> imo ultimately the problem with microsoft is the nepitism. You get people with big ideas, without much cultural exposure to the industry they are trying to engage in.  It's more like how can I change the world today. Sometimes it backfires.
[20:08] <GrueMaster> True.  My best friend from school worked for MS for ~15 years before quiting.  He was so burned out from the experience, he spent a year traveling remote areas of India & Tibet communing with nature.
[20:08] <pbuckley> sounds about right
[20:08] <GrueMaster> And, yes, he is still a very close friend.
[20:09] <NekoXP> you can't blame Windows the OS for racketeering on the part of the sales reps
[20:10] <NekoXP> or the need for people to actually HAVE Windows "by default".
[20:10] <pbuckley> you can because its a single organizational unit.. however the sales guys are assholes
[20:10] <GrueMaster> I don't blame the OS for anything.  I blame the company behind it for strong arming the market.
[20:10] <NekoXP> I know a lot of sales people, most of them are by profession slimy fuckers
[20:10] <NekoXP> the company doesn't teach them to be like that.. they're like that because they're in sales
[20:11] <NekoXP> and sales people, the aggressive ones who make all the commission, are the worst examples of humanity. because they can't code, don't have ideas, and have no other productive use in a technology company
[20:11] <GrueMaster> Sure.  What ever you want to believe.
[20:11] <GrueMaster> So I have to ask, are you now a MS fan troll?
[20:11] <pbuckley> lol
[20:12] <NekoXP> I use Windows because it does the best job so far on the stuff I need to do, day to day. I have 3 windows boxes in the house and about 19 Linux boxes (and one FreeBSD :)
[20:12] <NekoXP> not including VMs
[20:13] <NekoXP> various architectures, distros..
[20:13] <GrueMaster> The only Windows dedicated box I have does the one thing I need it to do.  Keep my wife happy with her Big Fish games.
[20:13] <NekoXP> two beagles, a panda, quickstart, mx6 sabrelite, more efikas than I can count, a ppc efika.. MPC8641D and MPC8610
[20:13] <GrueMaster> And I don't touch it.
[20:13] <NekoXP> pegasos I G3 and Pegasos II G4
[20:13] <NekoXP> they all do stuff.
[20:15] <GrueMaster> I think I out number you in running systems.
[20:15] <GrueMaster> At home.
[20:15] <NekoXP> but my preferred text editor is Notepad++, I like WinSCP and PuTTY (actually I use KiTTY), AOL Instant Messenger for Google Talk, I use IE9 now and then, VPN access, Photoshop, Distiller, Fireworks, VMWare, XenCenter, .iTunes...
[20:15] <NekoXP> maybe
[20:16] <GrueMaster> Every single thing you list there I can do on my Linux systems (except iTunes, I don't have any i* hw and don't want any).
[20:16] <NekoXP> I think if I had access to a decent text editor and a GUI SCP client worth a damn I might use Windows less, but I've yet to actually find them
[20:16] <infinity> So, you personally prefer a bunch of proprietary software.  I'm not seeing how that makes Windows the best tool for everyone's job.
[20:17] <infinity> (Also, a GUI SCP?  Ick)
[20:17] <infinity> But plenty of GUI FTP clients do SFTP, which is sane and reasonable.
[20:17] <NekoXP> because a lot of people prefer a bunch of proprietary software. I don't know any print or layout guys who would love to use Linux because Photoshop and Quark don't run on Linux
[20:17] <GrueMaster> Yea, what's the point in that?
[20:17] <NekoXP> GrueMaster, I don't spend my life in the commandline
[20:17] <infinity> NekoXP: Yes, and they are how much of the market?
[20:18] <NekoXP> I dunno, one for every editor and layout at every newspaper, 50 per department in every university with a digital print course...
[20:18] <infinity> (Photoshop was my last holdout too, and then I got out of graphic arts and stopped caring)
[20:18] <GrueMaster> Apparently, we seem to have comparable tools in Linux.  Piers Anthony is a highly known author that only uses Linux.
[20:18] <NekoXP> magazines, independent publishers, little print shops like VistaPrint or so, independent print shops who do leaflets for the churchh and posters for gay club parties
[20:19] <infinity> And, frankly, UNIX systems work better for almost everything ELSE I do.    Most of the functionality in Photoshop that people use on a regular basis have equivalent tools in Linux now.
[20:20] <infinity> pbuckley: I gave up trying or caring when I just gave it up entirely and moved on to other projects.  But yes, I hear it works well enough these days.
[20:20] <NekoXP> you're kidding me. there is no equivalent to photoshop on Linux
[20:20] <pbuckley> lol
[20:20] <infinity> GrueMaster: If you're a heavy Photoshop user, it's hard to make that argument.
[20:21] <pbuckley> NekoXP: yeh there is.. its called photoshop :P
[20:21] <GrueMaster> I never said equivalent on a feature basis.
[20:21] <NekoXP> it needs to be equivalent on a feature basis. what you do in photoshop and could do in GIMP is not what most people buy Photoshop for.
[20:21] <infinity> GrueMaster: I can make that argument for Illustrator versus Inkscape (Inkscape isn't nearly as feature-rich, but it works well, and gets the job done), but taking the GIMP over Photoshop is like punching yourself in the testicles to see if it will motivate you to not punch yourself in the testicles.
[20:21] <pbuckley> this is a bit funny to me.. i remember the argument for mac os was BUT IT RUNS photoshop
[20:21] <pbuckley> this is how i know linux is winning
[20:21] <pbuckley> the same arguments are now being applied to windows
[20:22] <NekoXP> I seem to remember Adobe almost.. maybe they even did.. make Photoshop run on Linux, but it was a kind of Caldega-like shim
[20:22] <GrueMaster> http://sixrevisions.com/graphics-design/10-excellent-open-source-and-free-alternatives-to-photoshop/
[20:22] <pbuckley> http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=17
[20:23] <pbuckley> there you go NekoXP photoshop in linux
[20:23] <pbuckley> go delete your windows boxes
[20:23] <NekoXP> yeah it means installing wine though and wah.. too much hassle
[20:23] <pbuckley> apt-get install wine
[20:23] <GrueMaster> But, as infinity pointed out, photoshop fans will probably remain loyal.
[20:23] <pbuckley> now you can cut and paste
[20:23] <NekoXP> I swear all they need to do is actually give it a native port and MS could do no wrong by putting a real MS Office on there and use the rest in wine if need be, and the world would be a happier place
[20:23] <GrueMaster> And if you want shiny gui for wine, get PlaysonLinux.
[20:24] <pbuckley> ms office runs under wine as well
[20:24] <pbuckley> though libre office is better then ms office imo
[20:24] <GrueMaster> yep.
[20:24] <NekoXP> I have trouble with libreoffice, as good as it is, and it is quite excellent, it has some trouble doing the stuff I do
[20:24] <pbuckley> NekoXP: then go submit some patches
[20:24] <NekoXP> every now and then it really mangles a document
[20:24] <pbuckley> or file a bug report
[20:25] <NekoXP> or I could use MS Office since I own it
[20:25] <pbuckley> you could
[20:25] <pbuckley> though technically with a technet subscription you dont
[20:25] <NekoXP> I do go back every 6 months to see what changed, I do have LibreOffice installed on Windows..
[20:25] <pbuckley> the license agreement only covers development use of the product
[20:25] <pbuckley> production usage of the product is explicitly forbidden under the eula agreement
[20:25] <NekoXP> no, I do actually have a retail copy of MS Office Home & Student edition
[20:25] <pbuckley> i didnt say you didnt
[20:25] <pbuckley> i was just referring to your technet argument earlier
[20:26] <NekoXP> the technet subscription really is just for putting windows on something to make sure it's not the hw that's broken, or trying something out I saw online like a new graphics driver that did this or that, or benchmarking citrix clients, or whatever
[20:26] <pbuckley> you should read the eula you are agreeing to before giving anyone money
[20:27] <pbuckley> it clearly defines the situations and methods the software can be applied
[20:27] <NekoXP> I use technet for what technet is for :)
[20:27] <pbuckley> and based on the conversation we have had i question how legitimate your use of the license is
[20:27] <pbuckley> whats your technet id? ;) i need to send an email to a friend
[20:27] <NekoXP> as I've used it for the past 14 years since I was part of the world's first rollout of Windows 2000 on a campus-wide scale outside of Microsoft.. it's for testing stuff out
[20:27] <GrueMaster> Fanboys always like giving their money to corporate charities.
[20:28] <NekoXP> for the work I do every day I have real retail licenses for everything
[20:28] <pbuckley> NekoXP: good for you, want a cookie? I was a developer on windows 7 and windows ce
[20:28] <NekoXP> except Photoshop, actually that is a student edition, but it does say I can use it when I quit university for stuff I do after university
[20:28] <GrueMaster> Same here.  Its called the GPL (and other open source licenses).
[20:29] <NekoXP> I would love a cookie
[20:29] <NekoXP> I think Tiffy left a bunch in my cupboard, she's so forgetful.. *goes to look*
[20:30] <mythos> so... you use wine within a qemu chroot to run photoshop on a arm-device? :o
[20:30] <pbuckley> wait that works?
[20:30] <mythos> maybe
[20:30] <pbuckley> <<
[20:30] <pbuckley> >>
[20:30]  * pbuckley goes and looks
[20:30] <GrueMaster> mythos: +1
[20:30] <NekoXP> it might
[20:31] <pbuckley> http://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page
[20:31] <pbuckley> neat
[20:31] <pbuckley> never heard of qemu before
[20:31] <NekoXP> qemu x86 emulation on arm really isn't what I'd call "photoshop capable" though
[20:31] <GrueMaster> Not on an efika at least.
[20:31] <NekoXP> I was thinking on an omap5 or an MX6
[20:32] <pbuckley> hrmm
[20:32] <pbuckley> kvm-ipxe?
[20:32] <NekoXP> is qemu threaded? can I run an smp qemu?
[20:32] <pbuckley> bridge utils
[20:32] <pbuckley> interesting
[20:32] <pbuckley> so it treats it like a vm?
[20:32] <pbuckley> i thought virtual machines werent running on armv7's yet
[20:32] <GrueMaster> Not sure if qemu is threaded, but if the underlying system is UP only, any multitasking os will be slower.
[20:33] <NekoXP> pbuckley, there are two ways to run it, one like a vm (VirtualBox uses a lot of QEMU code) and one where it emulates the other processor and passes syscalls to the native kernel
[20:33] <NekoXP> you just register the binary format with binfmt_misc and let the interpreter/vm do the work, like installing java
[20:34] <infinity> NekoXP: "uses a lot of qemu code"?  You realise VBox is just a friendly GUI wrapper around qemu, right?
[20:34] <NekoXP> infinity, yes, I was trying to be nice about it :D
[20:35] <infinity> (For some value of the word "friendly"... VBox just seems to get in the way when I try to use it)
[20:35] <NekoXP> but anyway, in the same way emulating an arm processor on a 3.2GHz 8-core Xeon with 32MB of L2 gives you the equivalent of a beagleboard with cpufreq on "conservative", just with a fast disk and networking worth a damn, x86 on ARM is... like being in back at school in the very early 90's
[20:36] <NekoXP> I mean having what amounts to a Pentium 75 is awesome for some things, but I'm fairly sure Photoshop would not be a fun experience. That said, MS Office might actually be fairly usable!
[20:36] <NekoXP> just stick to Office 200
[20:36] <NekoXP> 2000
[20:37] <pbuckley> i used to run photoshop on a pentium 100
[20:37] <pbuckley> sheesh kids these days are so impatient
[20:37] <NekoXP> if you can find a copy of Photoshop 5 lying around I'm sure it'd be perfectly usable
[20:37]  * pbuckley is now convinced nekoxp has been trolling us
[20:38] <NekoXP> only a tiny bit
[20:38] <pbuckley> heh
[20:39] <mythos> hmm... little offtopic... i tried a qemu-arm-vm and the framebuffer has only 1 mb max. videomemory. so the resolution is very limited. is there a workaround for that?
[20:39] <NekoXP> btw as far as "virtualization" on ARM, you're right, nobody really did proper hypervisor stuff on ARM as the arch doesn't support it in the best way possible, not like you could do on x86 or even m68k.. but it's definitely possible to pull some tricks
[20:39] <NekoXP> the new A15s have extensions to specifically solve that though and get better performance and security out of it
[20:39] <NekoXP> I do remember running MacOS on my Amiga though that was some serious, serious fun
[20:41] <NekoXP> playing with displaylink reminds me of how the graphics driver worked by trapping MMU accesses from the Mac side and using them to sparingly update the screen on the Amiga side. technology really hasn't moved on in the last 20 years.
[21:04] <pbuckley> anyone have suggestions for extra logging that i can turn on to help trouble shoot why my pandaboards lock up after a couple hours of inactivity?
[21:04] <pbuckley> its a hard lock.. no kernel panic no log details
[21:04] <pbuckley> its happening on both of my boards
[21:04] <GrueMaster> Odd.  I don't see that here on any of my 8 systems.
[21:19] <GrueMaster> I have an 8G Kingston Class 4 in another test system, and the other two are on a shelf so harder to see.
[21:19] <GrueMaster> Ah, one is a 4G Sandisk, the other is a 2G (it is running as a buildd with a USB drive for root).
[21:20] <pbuckley> hrm
[21:20] <pbuckley> well ill try the transcends anyways since i dont really have much else to go on
[21:20] <GrueMaster> And I have several SD cards not currently in use.
[21:20] <pbuckley> plus it gives me an excuse to goto frys
[21:21] <GrueMaster> I got all of my Transcend cards from Amazon.  The two "Class 10" cards I got from Fry's are my worst performers.
[21:22] <pbuckley> i guess if i order now i can get them by tomorrow morning
[21:22]  * pbuckley goes and looks
[21:23] <pbuckley> speaking of amazon.com there has been a protest outside my office in sf for the last month
[21:23] <pbuckley> bunch of people wearing pig masks
[21:23] <pbuckley> a bit creepy
[21:24] <pbuckley> Get it by Wednesday, Feb 29 if you order in the next 6 minutes and choose one-day shipping.
[21:24] <pbuckley> 6 minutes?!
[21:24] <ynezz> hurry up
[21:24] <pbuckley> wow these transcend cards are cheap
[21:25] <pbuckley> $10 bucks for an 8gb
[21:25] <GrueMaster> Wow.  I think I paid $30.
[21:25] <GrueMaster> A year ago.
[21:25] <pbuckley> the 32gb are $36
[21:25] <pbuckley> do you have a model number
[21:25] <pbuckley> i see a couple different 8gb models
[21:26] <pbuckley> (all are sdhc 10)
[21:27] <GrueMaster> Give me a sec.  Systems are running so I can't just yank one out.
[21:27] <pbuckley> TS8GSDHC10E TS8GSDHC10
[21:27] <pbuckley> nm i see two
[21:27] <pbuckley> the other was a class 6 card
[21:30] <GrueMaster> Ah, there it is.  I ordered TS8GSDHC10E .
[21:34] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  According to Amazon, I also have 2 of TS8GSDHC10.
[21:35] <GrueMaster> Nice that I can go back and look at these invoices online.  The other hardware purchases I made over the last few years are hard copy only.
[22:30] <pbuckley> GrueMaster: cool.. thank you
[22:30] <pbuckley> ordered myself a pair
[22:30] <GrueMaster> No problem.
[22:30] <pbuckley> hopefully its just faulty sd cards
[22:30] <pbuckley> gets kind of annoying to lose my state so often
[22:31] <pbuckley> if this doesnt fix it ill have to go back to a x86 desktop :(
[22:32] <GrueMaster> Yea, that does seem odd.  Although if you really want to do serious work, I recommend using a USB Sata drive for rootfs.
[22:32] <pbuckley> i am on my desktop
[22:32] <GrueMaster> You will see much improved speed.
[22:32] <pbuckley> only thing the sd card is boot
[22:32] <GrueMaster> Ah.
[22:32] <GrueMaster> ok
[22:33] <GrueMaster> And that system still fails?
[22:33] <pbuckley> yeh
[22:33] <pbuckley> thought not as frequently as the pure sd one
[22:33] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  i wonder if it is powering off the usb bus or something.  Might be a glitch in the sleep settings.
[22:34] <GrueMaster> Still, I think I would have seen that here.
[22:34] <pbuckley> it only happens when im not using the box
[22:34] <pbuckley> its never happened while i was logged in
[22:34] <pbuckley> well
[22:34] <pbuckley> i mean logged in doing stuff
[22:34] <pbuckley> but ill come back to it and its completely dead
[22:34] <GrueMaster> Well, my ES was up all weekend and I never set foot in my office.  It sat idle the whole time.
[22:35] <pbuckley> keyboard locked/nothing on screen
[22:35] <pbuckley> no network
[22:35] <pbuckley> hrmm
[22:35] <pbuckley> or
[22:35] <pbuckley> it oculd be the power supply
[22:35] <GrueMaster> Very odd.  It may be a glitchy board.
[22:35] <pbuckley> im using a 5v 3.6a supply from radio shack
[22:35] <pbuckley> both of them?
[22:35] <GrueMaster> I don't trust RS.
[22:36] <pbuckley> suppose ill replace that too
[22:36] <pbuckley> have a model number i can order?
[22:36] <GrueMaster> My 4-board tower is running off and old 230 watt AT power supply through a relay (to control individual power).
[22:36] <pbuckley> ooh fancy
[22:37] <pbuckley> unfortunately a bit of my time alotment for this project
[22:37] <pbuckley> +out
[22:37] <pbuckley> this will be my frys excuse
[22:37] <pbuckley> ill see what 5v 4a type things they have
[22:38] <GrueMaster> Here is the power supply I have on the rest of the boards:  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?KeyWords=993-1019-ND&site=us&lang=en&WT.z_slp_buy=TI_PandaBoard
[22:38] <pbuckley> nice thank you
[22:40] <GrueMaster> The harness for the AT power supply is fairly easy to assemble if you can get the barrel connectors.  Fry's may be hit or miss, but they at least have the HD power cables I used as a sacrificial starting point.
[22:41] <GrueMaster> I had to do some serious customization as I needed to power the usb drives as well as the pandas, but I also needed one USB port open for the kvm switch and I didn't want to mod my pandas in any way.
[22:46] <pbuckley> yeh ive been contemplating adding a usb hub
[22:46] <pbuckley> two ports is a bit rough
[22:48] <GrueMaster> It is fairy easy to add 2 more ports if you can solder.  One of the expansion connectors can be used to add a 10 pin header, then you can use a standard PC internal USB cable to add ports 3 & 4.
[22:49] <pbuckley> really?
[22:49] <pbuckley> there is an a&b
[22:49] <pbuckley> does that mean i can do 6 usb ports?
[22:50] <pbuckley> (total)
[22:50] <GrueMaster> I'm looking for the info.  It is fairly simple, I just chose to not mod mine in any way.
[22:50] <GrueMaster> No, only 4.
[22:50] <pbuckley> cool thank you
[22:51] <GrueMaster> There it is.  http://elinux.org/Panda_How_to_add_2_USBs
[22:52] <pbuckley> that is easy
[22:52] <GrueMaster> Yep.  But 4 ports is the max for the built in USB controller.
[22:52] <pbuckley> and i assume it enumerates just like the other usb ports?
[22:52] <GrueMaster> Yes.
[22:53] <GrueMaster> I believe they will show up as ports 1.3 & 1.4 respectively.
[22:53] <pbuckley> ill add that to list of things to do once i get these boards stable
[22:54] <pbuckley> the more i think about it.. its far more likely the power supply
[22:54] <pbuckley> then the sd card
[22:54] <GrueMaster> I would agree.  If the power supply isn't ramping fast enough on demand, that can be an issue.
[22:55] <GrueMaster> If you have a USB Y cable (usually for external drives) try running using that on a pc to power one of your pandas.
[22:56] <GrueMaster> It won't give you a lot of power, so no fs video playback, wifi, etc.  But for booting and sitting at the desktop, it should be fine.


[05:04] <zequence> sakrecoer: langasek sent a post to the ubuntu-release mail list, and asks flavour leaders to tell which size limits they have for their ISOs
[05:05] <zequence> DVD is our size limit, according to the various sizes he gives example for
[05:07] <zequence> Don't see any point in subscribing to oversize notifications. I mean, if we do ever grow beyond the DVD size, we just need to up the size for the release team, if that is a thing still at that time.
[09:06] <sakrecoer> zequence: thanks! so i'll them dvd size then :) on my way to read that mail..
[09:11] <sakrecoer> zequence: you suggestion seems wise to me. i'll just write that :)
[09:12] <sakrecoer> also, need to remember to check that list more regulary
[09:48] <zequence> sakrecoer: Well, the mail was just sent, and I happened to see it first. But, yes, it's good to keep an eye out posts on that mail list.
[10:44] <sakrecoer> zequence: :)
[10:44] <sakrecoer> also, did my email come through?
[10:46] <sakrecoer> i've got a few othee flavpurs reply inbetween, but my own.. sent over an hour ago, but maybe the default settings of that list isn't set to deliver to sender..?
[10:46] <sakrecoer> gah... fingers on the phone spelling is borken
[13:37] <OvenWerks> After all that fuss with making qjackctl work with qt5, I am noticing that qtractor is still qt4 :)
[13:56] <sakrecoer> hah! OvenWerks, you, ross and the other guys involved did an awsome job tho! can't remember bigging you up for that!
[13:56] <sakrecoer> first timne ever i tried it today actualy
[13:56] <sakrecoer> kindof disapointed that transport control is in an undermenu, but i doubt that is up to you
[13:56] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: the only thing I really did was say "this package is import and must work"
[13:56] <sakrecoer> haha :D
[13:57] <sakrecoer> well, good inception job then :D
[13:58] <sakrecoer> but regarding the indicator itself, i mean, who starts and stops the server every now and then? i would have put it the otherway arround: transport accessible, and server start and stop in under menu... whatever :D
[14:04] <sakrecoer> it is a bit weird to, to make the rolldown menu dissapear, you have to press "hide", which i first thought would remove the the entire indicator.
[14:05] <sakrecoer> clicking the icon again, will open a new roldown menu on top of the other..
[14:05] <sakrecoer> but i guees should file some bug for that, along with a wish for direct access to transport control
[15:23] <zequence> sakrecoer: I saw your mail before I replied even, so it must have gone trough
[16:24] <autumna> *steps in*
[16:26] <autumna> question about the package recommending. what is our procedure to request a package to be updated? does it go to zequence's "packaging wish list"? or does it go to the what we want in next version list? or both?
[16:26] <autumna> context is that the font forge package we have in ubuntu seems to be ancient and it would be very good to update it considering we do keep it as one of the default software.
[16:30] <zequence> autumna: Anything in the "universe" repository (most of what we distribute) is actually packaged in Debian
[16:31] <zequence> autumna: I looked into that packaged earlier, and sure enough, Debian has updated it shortly after upstream did
[16:31] <zequence> We automatically get packages from Debian until "Debian Import Freeze", which happens about 2 months before each release.
[16:32] <autumna> zequence: wait which version are we using exactly? my understanding was that it was from 2012. it is possible I misunderstood through *double checks*
[16:33] <zequence> autumna: Upstream (the original authors) did not update it until quite recently
[16:33] <zequence> Less than a month later, it was also updated in Debian
[16:33] <autumna> so the recent development just started again?
[16:33] <autumna> aaah ok
[16:34] <autumna> well that's better it means we don't have to do anything. yay! :)
[16:34] <zequence> usually this happens automatically, so not a big concern for us
[16:34] <zequence> Yep :)
[17:00] <OvenWerks> zequence: have we started getting Y daily ISOs yet?
[17:01] <OvenWerks> I guess so...
[17:02] <zequence> OvenWerks: Yes, I think that starts happening as soon as the new cycle is open for business
[17:06] <OvenWerks> autumna: they do have a ppa: https://launchpad.net/~fontforge/+archive/ubuntu/fontforge
[17:08] <OvenWerks> I would imagine that is the source for debian (or from).
[17:08] <autumna> oh I know... (even through they don't have the xenial version in there yet) it is better to get an up to date version directly from install through since it is one of our preinstalled programs
[17:11] <autumna> zequence: where do you check if a package is updated in debian or not? I think I am looking at the wrong place
[17:12] <zequence> autumna: Have you isntalled ubuntu-dev-tools?
[17:12] <autumna> no.. but let me do that. then :)
[17:13] <autumna> (I had setup beginnings of a dev-env on a virtual box, but that went away during one of the reinstalls)
[17:14] <zequence> autumna: Once you have, you can use the tool rmadison to see which version of a source package is in which distro and release
[17:14] <zequence> Like this, for fontforge 'rmadison -u debian fontforge'
[17:15] <zequence> Remember, that installable packages are binary packages, and may not be named after the source package
[17:15] <zequence> So, for rmadison, you need to know the name of the source package, from where the binary is built
[17:15] <autumna> aaah
[17:17] <autumna> ok, thanks. let me do the install and try it.
[17:33] <OvenWerks> ack! can we make zsync default :)
[19:12] <zequence> Ross really makes things happen on the testing side of things


[01:02] <cables> If I /msg ubotu ops, will it show up here?
[01:02] <cables> like "cables called the ops in ubotu"
[01:02] <cables> ?
[01:02] <LjL> cables: no, but you'll be added to the black list
[01:02] <cables> LjL, how come? What if I just want to know who the ops are?
[01:03] <Seveas> cables, /cs access #channel list
[01:03] <cables> ok
[01:03] <cables> doesn't actually tell me anything
[01:06] <LjL> cables: no, but it puts you on the black*er* list
[01:06] <cables> LjL, ok...
[01:06] <mc44> cables: what do you mean it doesnt tell you anything?
[01:06] <cables> mc44, i don't get info on who are ops. Doesn't matter though
[01:07] <LjL> hint: status window
[01:07] <mc44> cables: /msg chanserv access #channel list
[01:07] <mc44> perhaps
[01:07] <LjL> ew
[01:07] <cables> that's the same as /cs access #channel list
[01:07] <mc44> well, depending on your client
[01:07] <Seveas> LjL, reboot for kernel upgrade
[01:08] <mc44> cables: can you see the list it makes?
[01:08] <cables> mc44, yeah, doesn't give me a list. It's not importand though
[01:09] <mc44> cables: you know you have to change #channel to the right channel? ;p
[01:09] <cables> yeah
[01:09] <cables> whatever it's ok
[01:10] <LjL> hint: status. window.
[01:14] <Seveas> cables, xchat?
[01:14] <Seveas> xchat is broken when it comes to chanserv handling. Either grab & use chanserv.py or look at all your channels
[01:14] <cables> Seveas, yeah
[01:15] <cables> Seveas, my friend Getisboy wasn't trying to invite the bot
[01:15] <cables> Seveas, he was looking for help on the invite command
[01:15] <Seveas> he was
[01:15] <cables> Seveas, he's very new to IRC...
[01:15] <Seveas> INFO 2007-04-17T01:09:30 invite called by
[01:15] <Seveas><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:15] <cables> hmm
[01:15] <cables> weird
[01:15] <cables> he thinks ubotu is a general helpbot
[01:15] <cables> not just ubunttu
[01:16] <cables> I'll warn him about that
[01:16] <Seveas> !test
[01:16] <ubotu> Failed.
[01:16] <Seveas> LjL, WTF!?!? :p
[01:16] <Seveas> WARNING 2007-04-17T01:16:26 Invited to ##automatix by
[01:16] <Seveas>         LjL!n=ljl@ubuntu/member/ljl, but supybot.alwaysJoinOnInvite was False
[01:16] <Seveas>         and the user lacked the "admin" capability.
[01:17] <Seveas> bad man
[01:18] <cables> Seveas, /msg ubotu invite invites the bot i guess?
[01:18] <cables> Seveas, I guess he thought it would give him info on the invite command
[02:11] <gnomefreak> apokryphos: good luck tomorrow but i should be there :)
[03:43] <ubotu> hw-- called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:58] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, hw-- said: !ops   Combat is spam.
[03:58] <ubotu> Pici called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:00] <nalioth> elkbuntu: notice combat evading your attentions?
[04:02] <elkbuntu> nalioth, eh? it was only a kick because i wasnt convinced he intended to accidentally paste the middleclick buffer
[04:02] <nalioth> right, but he immediately rejoined with another nick
[04:03] <nalioth> not a 'innocent' behavior
[04:05] <elkbuntu> well he hasnt messed up yet
[04:05] <nalioth> because i +q'd him
[04:05] <nalioth> he's pasted large crap TWICE now
[04:05] <elkbuntu> then fine, go to town on him. i can only act on what i've seen
[04:05] <elkbuntu> and i've only been sitting here for 5-10 minutes
[04:07] <nalioth> the q will come off in a minute or 3
[04:07] <nalioth> was just a 10 minute version
[04:11] <elkbuntu> oh well... keep an eye on cfgnunes, im off to shower then go find some new luggage
[04:12] <elkbuntu> since imbrandon sat on my suitcase in Mountain View and borked it :
[04:12] <nalioth> i see.
[04:25] <josephus_> hi.  i need help in rejoining
[04:35] <ubotu> xtknight called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:41] <josephus_> hi. i'm trying to rejoin #ubuntu
[04:52] <josephus_> madpilot, are you an operator?
[04:53] <Madpilot> in a lot of #ubuntu channels, yes
[04:54] <josephus_> can you help me rejoin?  i was sent here because of fixdcc exploit in my router
[04:54] <Madpilot> sure
[04:54] <Madpilot> josephus_, please join #madpilot - we can't do the d c c testing in this channel
[04:57] <Madpilot> josephus_, you're clear in #ubuntu
[04:57] <josephus_> ok
[06:02] <arrummzen> test me.
[06:03] <Hobbsee> arrummzen: done
[06:03] <arrummzen> thank you =P
[06:09] <nalioth> that wasn't a test
[06:11] <Hobbsee> nalioth: sorry?
[06:11] <Hobbsee> hi mneptok
[06:14] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: presumably we'll forward #ubuntu+1 to #ubuntu and have all the ops on hand
[06:14] <Hobbsee> or most of them
[06:15] <nalioth> Hobbsee: gotta take 'em off into a private room and try to blow 'em out in a channel send
[06:15] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Right.  Should we have an #ubuntu-release-party (or just use -offtopic) so the main channels are still useful for support questions?
[06:15] <Hobbsee> nalioth: hrm?
[06:15] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: not a bad idea, actually
[06:24] <Madpilot> you'd kill gmail
[06:24] <tonyyarusso> There's fame and fortune opportunity.  "I took down Google"
[06:25] <Madpilot> then the Google Goons would come find you and google "really painful ways to die" on a laptop while holding you down.
[06:25] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[06:26] <Madpilot> because the Goons never actually learn or remember anything much, they just google for it as needed.
[06:29] <Hobbsee> Madpilot: i'll be  out for that day :P
[06:29] <Hobbsee> Pumpernickel: hehe
[06:35] <mneptok> heya Hobbsee
[06:39] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:40] <Hobbsee> mneptok: pick me up one as ewll, please
[06:41] <Madpilot> the firearm, or the surgery?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> firearm
[06:42] <mneptok> little of column a, little of column b.
[06:43] <Madpilot> shooting noobs is almost certainly against the CoC. Even if you're just trying to nick them a bit.
[06:43] <mneptok> but i guess if you have the rifle, you could give yourself the (pretty messy and inaccurate) lobotomy
[06:44] <mneptok> !lapdance
[06:44] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lapdance - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[06:44] <mneptok> please update your resume.
[06:45] <Hobbsee> Madpilot: defenestrating them is not covered in the COC...
[06:46] <mneptok> defenestration is the entire point of Linux.
[06:46] <Madpilot> we'll have to get the CoC amended, then. "Hobbsee is not allowed to throw people out windows. Even if they deserve it.
[06:46] <Hobbsee> lol
[06:56] <Madpilot> you'd be the only person mentioned specifically by name in the CoC - a great honour, I'm sure.
[06:56] <Madpilot> at least until the badly-needed mneptok-specific clauses get added in haste.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> lol
[07:06] <mneptok> Article IX, Subsection 2: Use Lingerie, Megaphones, And Vaseline At Ubuntu Public Events
[07:15] <Hobbsee> mneptok: and pirate gear.
[07:26] <elkbuntu> Madpilot, sabdfl is already mentioned personally
[07:26] <Madpilot> OK, 'first person aside from sabdfl' should cover it?
[07:27] <elkbuntu> hehe
[08:35] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, my new suitcase is purple :)
[08:35] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yay!
[08:36] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: mine's pink, so i dont think we'll get them confused :P
[08:36] <elkbuntu> hehe... is it trolley style?
[08:37] <imbrandon> ello elkbuntu Hobbsee mneptok
[08:37] <elkbuntu> heya imbrandon :)
[08:38] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
[08:38] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: trolley style?
[08:38] <imbrandon> wheels
[08:38] <elkbuntu> so you can pull and/or push it
[08:38] <Hobbsee> ah.  yes
[08:38] <elkbuntu> ... like a trolley
[08:39] <elkbuntu> question 2: along one of the wide sides?
[08:39] <imbrandon> a trolley is a vehicle ...
[08:39] <Hobbsee> i kinda figured that - i was wondering if you were talking about a special subset of push/pull thingos
[08:39] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, in your silly american words, 'cart'
[08:39] <imbrandon> :)
[08:40] <elkbuntu> you going to this one dude?
[08:40] <Hobbsee> no, he's sucking and not coming.
[08:40] <imbrandon> not spain, i'll be in boston
[08:40] <elkbuntu> aww :(
[08:41] <imbrandon> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bruce.lake/images/WorldWide/SanFran16.JPG  <-- trolley
[08:42] <imbrandon> not unless someone buys me some plane ticci all the sudden :)
[08:44] <elkbuntu> http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/HAND%20TROLLEY_611.jpg .. http://www.kaycoindia.com/hospital-furnitures/gifs/medicine-trolley1.jpg .. http://www.healthyactive.gov.au/internet/healthyactive/publishing.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/shopping_trolley.jpg/$File/shopping_trolley.jpg  <--- trolleys
[08:44] <imbrandon> url's with .au dont count :) heheh
[08:45] <nixternal> imbrandon: come on bud, you and I will hold our own UDS, meet ya in the middle, that is like 3 or 4 hours away
[08:45] <nixternal> UDS - Ubuntu Drinking Summit!!!
[08:45] <elkbuntu> @lart 37 imbrandon
[08:45] <imbrandon> nixternal, hahah yea UDS - St. Louis :)
[08:45] <mneptok> my pants are frictionless.
[08:46] <nixternal> imbrandon: I am down!
[08:46] <nixternal> haha
[08:47] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, so i had been waiting for sys76 to send me more stickers right... and i had a pile of envelopes here waiting. i got THREE envelopes from the US, and 1 from canada.... with the respective countries postage on the envelopes and of those 4, only one, an american, had 'australia' in the address.. Burgundavia also got one from the US somewhere
[08:48] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: ! how is life?
[08:48] <imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
[08:48] <imbrandon> elkbuntu, heh
[08:49] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, still reeling from the collection of stupidity i waded through yesterday. those 4 were out of 33, but then i had 2 that didnt stamp their self addressed envelopes, one that didnt stamp either envelope (nfi how it got to me) and one that didnt even put an envelope in
[08:50] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: I have one that sent me $5 and asked for me to send something, but then I lost their envelope and now I feel bad :(
[08:50] <elkbuntu> :(
[08:50] <elkbuntu> dude that sucks
[08:52] <elkbuntu> but all yours actually stamp their envelopes, right?
[08:53] <imbrandon> someone send me some stickers .... hehehe
[08:54] <imbrandon> i just added a new one to my lappy, "be nice to me, i know your passwords"
[08:55] <elkbuntu> hahaha
[08:55] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: I have one without an envelope, but that is it
[08:55] <Hobbsee> hahahahaha nice :D
[08:55] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: how many have you sent out?
[08:55] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, lost count
[08:55] <Burgundavia> wow
[08:56] <elkbuntu> i have all envelopes in a bag still.. purely so if asked how many i could go back and count
[08:56] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, how many have you managed to send out?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> absolutely none :)
[08:57] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, i have 1 solitary kubuntu powered by sticker left... that somehow miraculously didnt get snapped up at LCA or sent off to a second event
[08:57] <Burgundavia> I have 60 sitting here waiting to sent out
[08:57] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, you're shitting me right? you've sent none yet?
[08:58] <imbrandon> elkbuntu, i claim it :)
[08:58] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: my laziness has been in the extreme
[08:58] <Madpilot> elkbuntu, see above about the lazy sodhood of certain people ;)
[08:59] <Hobbsee> my ubuntu sticker has almost warn off :(
[08:59] <Hobbsee> s/warn/worn/
[09:00] <Myrtti> Hobbsee: I put clear nail polish on it
[09:00] <Myrtti> :->
[09:00] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, i was holding on to it for this UDS thinking you'd be there, but i'll dig up your address
[09:01] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: not a bad idea.  my kuubntu one has survived fine, though
[09:02] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: so has mine. I keep it on to let people know exactly how long I have run Ubuntu :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> there's a thought
[12:00] <gouki> morning'
[12:27] <gnomefreak> morning
[01:02] <Tm_T> what a wonderful feeling it is
[01:05] <Tm_T> bah, already have strong painkillers
[01:10] <Tm_T> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codeine & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol <3
[01:11] <gnomefreak> tylonal with codeine :)
[01:13] <gnomefreak> hmmm that was almost too fast
[01:13] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: straight codeine?
[01:14] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: nope, drugmix of codeine and paracetamol
[01:14] <gnomefreak> ah
[01:14] <Myrtti> panacod
[01:14] <gnomefreak> that sounds good
[01:14] <Tm_T> that's the one
[01:14] <Myrtti> the one with crecent moons on the package?
[01:14] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: heh, you know where those green spots are coming :)
[01:15] <Tm_T> Myrtti: moons?
[01:15] <mneptok> codiene is not a controlled substance in Canada :)
[01:15] <Myrtti> yeah?
[01:15] <mneptok> any drugstore, no prescription
[01:16] <Myrtti> crecents anyway, or cresents or such
[01:16] <mneptok> that's why the support offices are here ;)
[01:16] <Myrtti> mneptok: yeah, well you can get some codeine products here without prescription too
[01:16] <Myrtti> like cough syrups and tablets
[01:18] <mneptok> Myrtti: i imagine Finnish cough syrups having flavors of all the strange berries (e.g. whortleberry, Artic cloudberry) that Finns are crazy about :)
[01:18] <Myrtti> nope
[01:18] <mneptok> :(
[01:18] <Myrtti> just plain licorice
[01:18] <mneptok> laaaaaameu
[01:18] <mneptok> -u
[01:20] <Myrtti> central europeans are crazy about a syrup made from the youngest leaves of spruce
[01:23] <Tm_T> Myrtti: yup, now I see those crecents
[01:24] <Myrtti> I got those when my wisdom teeth were cut off
[01:33] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I have these for "take 1-2 3 times a day"
[01:33] <Tm_T> or something
[01:34] <Tm_T> there was another drug for central nerve system, but I don't like it
[01:34] <Myrtti> I tried Dolan once, did nothing
[01:34] <Myrtti> Voltaren seems like a no show medicine to me, too
[01:37] <Tm_T> regular painkillers are waste of time here
[01:37] <Myrtti> sirdalud + ketomex <3
[01:55] <elkbuntu> paracetamol is horrid
[01:55] <elkbuntu> it's supposed to be like the mildest painkiller or something but it upsets my stomach
[01:59] <Hobbsee> :(
[02:03] <elkbuntu> ibuprofen ftw
[02:17] <ubotu> Juhaz called the ops in #ubuntu
[02:19] <jrib> gnomefreak: same ip as bronson I had just unbanned
[02:20] <gnomefreak> same troll
[02:54] <Tm_T> elkbuntu: ibu... I ate that stuff long and much, doesn't help until in very high doses -> poisonous
[02:57] <mc44> codine made me rather constipated :s
[02:57] <mc44> !overshare
[02:57] <ubotu> Um thanks... We *really* did not need to know that...
[02:57] <mc44> :)
[03:01] <Tm_T> what is constipated?
[03:01] <Myrtti> ummetus
[03:01] <Tm_T> aa
[03:04] <Tm_T> Jucato: jumpy today?
[03:04] <elkbuntu> PriceChild, incoming
[03:05] <PriceChild> elkbuntu, hmm?
[03:05] <elkbuntu> PriceChild, a guy from senegal is going to contact you asking for a forum
[03:05] <PriceChild> Ok cool
[03:05] <Tm_T> :)
[03:09] <Tm_T> PriceChild: heh
[03:17] <PriceChild> still nothing elkbuntu, ah well
[03:17] <elkbuntu> i'll give him a poke
[03:21] <mc44> could someone change the link in ubuntu+1 to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000281.html?
[03:26] <PriceChild> ah yes
[03:26] <PriceChild> done :)
[03:30] <elkbuntu> PriceChild, he says there's a problem with making a forum?
[03:30] <PriceChild> I'm confused... could I have his nick? :)
 SenegalTeam is not already listed in the page of team, so now i cannot create a forum
[03:31] <Vorian> PriceChild, he doesn't have the wiki info filled in yet
[03:31] <PriceChild> Ah so its not a real loco team yet
[03:32] <elkbuntu> he is trying to set it up
[03:32] <PriceChild> Ok
[03:32] <elkbuntu> he has the irc channel and a mailing list so far
[03:34] <elkbuntu> im taking his word in terms of the list though, since i dont see it on lists.ubuntu.com
[03:34] <elkbuntu> but it's not forbidden to make them elsewhere
[03:42] <PriceChild> Still no reply from him in query or channel *trundles off*
[03:43] <mc44> PriceChild: perhaps a face to face in Senegal is in order :)
[03:49] <PriceChild> elkbuntu, woo he's replying :)
[03:56] <jenda> Hello
[03:56] <PriceChild> Hey Mr, jenda
[03:56] <jenda> :)
[03:56] <mc44> which expo?
[04:02] <Seveas> THE xpo
[04:02] <jenda> hehe
[04:02] <jenda> LinuxExpo
[04:02] <jenda> in Prague
[04:03] <mc44> Oh, that little place :p
[04:15] <jenda> :)
[04:15] <jenda> it is ;)
[04:15] <mc44> I hope you are giving out beer at the ubuntu stand :)
[04:18] <jenda> no, but I'll go remedy that deficit afterwards :)
[04:19] <mc44> \o/
[04:41] <Tm_T> I'm about to ban kai from #kubuntu
[04:43] <stdin> please :)
[04:43] <Tm_T> done
[04:43] <Tm_T> kick <3<3
[04:43] <stdin> that was getting quite annoying
[04:44] <Tm_T> no shit
[04:44] <Tm_T> !ohmy
[04:44] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[04:52] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: he does that all the time when heres there
[04:52] <gnomefreak> kai also has another nick he does it with
[04:52] <Tm_T> interesting
[04:53] <gnomefreak> you should find a ban on him in bug tracker by me atleast 1
[09:10] <Seveas> apokryphos, meeting in 50 minutes :)
[09:10] <apokryphos> Seveas: cool; going to make it this time ;)
[09:11] <nalioth> meeting?
[09:12] <apokryphos> shhh
[09:12] <Seveas> CC meeting
[09:12] <Tm_T> ?
[09:13] <Seveas> apokryphos is up for membership
[09:15] <apokryphos> doughnuts may be doable, but beer.. hm
[09:15] <apokryphos> beer -> cider and it may work out
[09:46] <apokryphos> Seveas: just a note that I may have to head out at some point for 10 mins or so to 'collect' my gf, but it shouldn't be long at all
[09:46] <apokryphos> it's not a very nice area 8)
[09:46] <Seveas> apokryphos, that's ok, just let me know when you leave
[09:46] <apokryphos> np
[09:54] <apokryphos> Seveas: ok, leaving now
[09:55] <Seveas> apokryphos, you have more than an hour ;)
[09:55] <apokryphos> excellent 8)
[10:05] <apokryphos> Seveas: ok, back now
[10:06] <apokryphos> not worth mentioning ;)
[10:06] <Seveas> apokryphos, meeting still has to start ;)
[10:06] <mc44> apokryphos: you have to wait a few hours for the CC to turn up :p
[10:07] <apokryphos> mc44: and then a few more hours to get to the member stage? ;)
[10:07] <mc44> apokryphos: oh Im sure Seveas will put you near the top
[10:07] <mc44> alphabetical order or something :)
[10:11] <apokryphos> mc44: cookie bribes seem a little more valid
[10:21] <tsmithe> PriceChild, lucky you. spain...
[10:21] <PriceChild> tsmithe, you could have come too.
[10:22] <tsmithe> i'm bloody 15. i don't care if they were gonna pay
[10:22] <tsmithe> well, i do
[10:22] <tsmithe> and i wanted to come!
[10:22] <tsmithe> but you don't wanna hear me whine about it again :P
[10:23] <Seveas> indeed
[10:23] <PriceChild> you parents should sign over full parental rights to me for the week to look after you
[10:23] <Seveas> :p
[10:24] <tsmithe> :P
[10:25] <tsmithe> i don't trust PriceChild to be a parent
[10:26] <Tm_T> I do, if he knows how to punish you hard
[10:28] <Tm_T> seveas? pointy stick? I thought that's hobbsee's thing
[10:28] <mc44> Tm_T: he borrows it for meetings
[10:28] <Tm_T> ah I see
[10:28] <Tm_T> good I haven't been in meetings for awhile
[10:29] <Tm_T> mooh, I don't want to do wikipage about myself :(
[10:29] <Tm_T> any volunteer?
[10:42] <mc44> jenda: I knew you were making a fortune off those posters :p
[10:43] <Seveas> rofl
[10:43] <tsmithe> haha
[10:44] <jenda> hehe
[10:44] <jenda> mc44: not me :)
[10:44] <mc44> but yay for sane trademark policies anyhow :)
[10:44] <jenda> mc44: it's just that I'm trying to convince others they _can_
[10:44] <tsmithe> so that's why i've not got any donations...
[10:44] <mc44> jenda: haha like pyramid selling? :p
[10:44] <jenda> besides, I had all my endeavours confirmed by trademarks@
[10:45] <jenda> tsmithe: no, that would be because the forums got all the outgoing cash... and I bought t-shirts for everyone at the LinuxExpo today.
[10:45] <jenda> :)
[10:45] <PriceChild> mc44, no no... jenda used a trapezium business model - perfectly letig
[10:45] <PriceChild> *legit
[10:46] <tsmithe> jenda, pah :P
[10:46] <jenda> PriceChild: what's a trapezium business model? :)
[10:46] <jenda> How about a 'concentric' business model? :-D
[10:46] <PriceChild> I think it was off the Simpsons...
[10:46] <jenda> hehe
[11:33] <apokryphos> Seveas: ompaul, PriceChild, imbrandon: thank you for your kind words =)
[11:33] <Seveas> apokryphos, thanks for getting of your lazy ass and doing the membership thing
[11:33] <ompaul> apokryphos, you should have been told come back next meeting - you waited so long
[11:33] <ompaul> hehe
[11:33] <tsmithe> i guess that means congratulations are in order, apokryphos
[11:33] <Seveas> apokryphos, did you join the ubunutumembers team on lp?
[11:34] <PriceChild> Woo well done apokryphos :)
[11:34] <imbrandon> :)
[11:34] <apokryphos> nevermind, eventually there 8)
[11:34] <apokryphos> Seveas: nope
[11:34] <ompaul> apokryphos, :)
[11:34] <Seveas> apokryphos, then do so
[11:35] <apokryphos> Seveas: oh, it says I have already
[11:35] <Seveas> heh
[11:36] <apokryphos> ompaul: not a member?
[11:37] <ompaul> apokryphos, I took it down the week I had a row over something
[11:37] <apokryphos> oh
[11:37] <ompaul> I took nearly everything down I was so annoyed I was angry a while after
[11:38] <apokryphos> anger is a temporary insanity ;)
[11:38] <mc44> combined with ompaul's continuous insanity, thats pretty bad
[11:38] <ompaul> apokryphos, well I had good reason
[11:39] <ompaul> or at least I thought so :)(
[11:39] <ompaul> thats :)
[11:39] <apokryphos> I see
[11:39] <apokryphos> those poor souls
[11:39] <mc44> haha
[11:40] <mc44> you arent even close to being an annoying ranter compared to alot of offtopic
[11:40] <apokryphos> anyhow, ice-cream! /me out
[11:45] <gnomefreak> congrats apokryphos
[11:45] <gnomefreak> crap he left
[11:45] <ompaul> he gone walk about :)
[11:45] <ompaul> be is not left he is just not here :)
[11:46] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:46] <gnomefreak> whats up with mindspin?
[11:47] <PriceChild> i sent him a !nickspam 5 minutes ago
[11:47] <PriceChild> uu he's back
[11:51] <ompaul> I got him a cloak
[11:52] <ompaul> my fault I should have asked him to leave channels before he started
[11:52] <PriceChild> ahhh so that's what was going on :)
[11:52] <ompaul> sorry peeps
[12:00] <PriceChild> mneptok, is it me or is that a new cloak?
[12:00] <mc44> PriceChild: jenda forced him to have one
[12:00] <PriceChild> lol :)
[12:02] <ompaul> jenda, I was going to give him something *different*
[12:03] <mc44> ompaul: like canonical/dontfeedthe/mneptok ?
[12:04] <Seveas> ROFLOL
[12:04] <ompaul> mc44, that would be the canonical answer
[12:04] <Seveas> DO IT DO IT!!!
[12:04] <ompaul> mc44, you are like a razor
[12:05] <Seveas> I'm literally laughing out loud here
[12:05] <mc44> ompaul: occums or otherwise? :p
[12:05] <ompaul> Seveas, so we all are
[12:05] <ompaul> mc44, hmmmmmmmm is there an answer to that that wilkinson could not give himself
[12:06] <gnomefreak> without errors*
[12:06] <ompaul> :)
[12:06] <mc44> :p
[12:07] <mc44> ompaul: I've already booked my "first against the wall" spot
[12:07] <Seveas> ompaul, you can set cloaks as well, right?
[12:07] <ompaul> I can
[12:07] <ompaul> okay
[12:07] <ompaul> gotcha
[12:07] <ompaul> names please
[12:07] <Seveas> do the dontfeedthe/mneptok cloak :)
[12:07] <ompaul> I'd get shot for it
[12:07] <mc44> hehe
[12:07] <ompaul> in ways that you would not know about
[12:08] <Seveas> just say your password was hacked :)
[12:08] <ompaul> Seveas, give me the the ones from the meeting
[12:08] <Seveas> they ned to ask for it
[12:08] <Seveas> they're not mandatory
[12:10] <ompaul> jenda, u here?
[12:11] <Seveas> mneptok, what do you feel about a canonical/dontfeedthe/mneptok cloak?
[12:12] <Seveas> ompaul, let's not go there ;)
[12:12] <ompaul> it should actually read  canonical/staff/mneptok
[12:14] <apokryphos> https://beta.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc/+mugshots oh the beauty!
[12:15] <PriceChild> I need to get myself a proper picture
[12:16] <PriceChild> although whenever I do, I end up with 2 chins after cropping
[12:16] <apokryphos> Seveas: someone has taken https://beta.launchpad.net/~francis -- is it impossible for me to have a francis@ubuntu email? ;-)
[12:16] <Seveas> no
[12:17] <Seveas> just make sure to send an email to canonical sysadmin *now*
[12:17] <mc44> oh its only on launchpad beta?
[12:17] <Seveas> (not literally now, but you get the ida
[12:17] <apokryphos> Seveas: cool<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:19] <Seveas> no idea
[12:19] <Seveas> try #canonical-sysadmin :)
[12:19] <mc44> its<EMAIL_ADDRESS>isnt it?
[12:19] <mc44> possibly
[12:20] <PriceChild> I emailed<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and got a ticket but never a reply...
[12:20] <mc44> heh
[12:21] <ompaul> not<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:21] <mc44> bet that would work :)
[12:21] <ompaul> when I joined where I am they put up one alias for me
[12:21] <ompaul><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:21] <ompaul> where companyname = $VALUE
[12:22] <Seveas> ompaul, the sysadmins list at my work actually is bofh@
[12:22] <ompaul> Seveas, thats a list
[12:22] <tsmithe> Seveas, are you the bofh?
[12:22] <ompaul> paaahhhh
[12:23] <tsmithe> uhoh
[12:23] <PriceChild> :)
[12:23] <tsmithe> i saw that coming :P
[12:23] <Seveas> hmm, I should have ubuntu/bofh/seveas :)
[12:23] <tsmithe> you should
[12:23] <ompaul>  /ns setcloak seveas ......
[12:23] <ompaul> now that I could do but I think Seveas and I would have some explaining to do
[12:23] <ompaul> we _might_ get away with it
[12:23] <PriceChild> Seveas, If you could have one or the other... would it be a bofh for you, or mnepto.k's?
[12:24] <Seveas> mneptoks
[12:24] <PriceChild> you almost answered that before I hit return :)
[12:24] <ompaul> PriceChild for best retorical question of the year
[12:24] <PriceChild> ompaul, for best spelling