[10:45] <bkerensa> hmms
[10:51]  * funkyHat wiggles
[10:52]  * bkerensa rides the pogo stick around
[10:58]  * Pici yawns
[10:58] <AlanBell> hi all
[10:58] <bkerensa> =o
[10:58] <bkerensa> 3am
[10:58] <bkerensa> hello
[10:58] <Pici> howdy
[10:58] <AlanBell> wow
[10:58] <AlanBell> dedicated, I am impressed
[10:58] <Myrtti> ohai
[10:59] <Pici> I plan to go right back to sleep after this ;)
[10:59] <AlanBell> lets crack on then :)
[10:59] <AlanBell> #startmeeting IRCC team meeting
[10:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jan 14 10:59:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[10:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[10:59] <AlanBell> hi all, who is here for the meeting o/
[10:59] <funkyHat> ô/
[10:59] <Myrtti> o/
[10:59] <oCean> o/
[10:59]  * Pici waves
[11:00] <bkerensa> 0/
[11:01] <AlanBell> Hello and welcome to the first team meeting of the new IRC Council
[11:01] <Pici> woo
[11:01] <AlanBell> I would like to start the meeting by thanking our predecessors for all that they have done over the past few years, and in particular thanking them for their assistance during the handover
[11:02] <Unit193> ]o
[11:02] <AlanBell> jussi, elky, topyli, tsimpson, nhandler thanks very much
[11:02] <LjL> :)
[11:02] <AlanBell> and special congratulations jussi on the new baby \o/ \o/
[11:02] <LjL> \o/
[11:02] <bkerensa> \o/
[11:02] <Pici> :)
[11:02] <AlanBell> #topic welcome and introductions from the new IRC Council
[11:03] <AlanBell> topyli will be along in a sec, but the new council is Pici topyli funkyHat and myself
[11:04] <AlanBell> Pici: funkyHat: want to say who you are?
[11:04] <Pici> I think you all know me by now.
[11:04] <Pici> Or at least, I hope so ;)
[11:04] <AlanBell> :)
[11:05] <AlanBell> I am the leader of the Ubuntu-UK loco team, and I do a bit for the Accessibility team
[11:05] <AlanBell> I am not an op in the core channels so I have been running about learning stuff over the last couple of weeks
[11:05] <Pici> Anyway, feel free to give me a pm at any time if you want to take about anything. I'm always available.
[11:05] <funkyHat> Hi, I'm Matt Wheeler. I've been an operator in #ubuntu-offtopic for quite a while now, and I'm also slowly working on my packaging skills with the intention of joining the MOTU team, but university is taking first priority at the moment
[11:06] <AlanBell> topyli: hi topyli, who are you?
[11:06] <ts2> aren't there supposed to be 5 members (and Hello!)
[11:06] <funkyHat> I'm pretty much always idling on here too, so feel free to pm me as well. I have nice hats ❡⢁)
[11:06] <LjL> ts2: i think not enough applied
[11:06] <AlanBell> ts2: yes, will get to that in a sec
[11:06] <ts2> ok
[11:06] <Myrtti> ts2: we couldn't enough blood from the fourth one to make them weak enough to apply
[11:07] <AlanBell> here is the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[11:07] <Myrtti> s/fourth/fifth/
[11:07] <topyli> i'm juha siltala. i'm an op in #ubuntu-offtopic and a couple of loco channels (i think still) i used to be in the previous council
[11:07] <AlanBell> #subtopic announcement of the chair of the IRCC
[11:08] <Pici> Oh, I guess I should state my name for the record like everyone else.  Benjamin Rubin, op in lots of channels, was on the council before the last, etc.
[11:08] <topyli> i'm pretty easy to reach on irc, so go ahead and bother me :)
[11:08] <AlanBell> I lost the game of rock-paper-scissors and as a forfeit I ended up as chair of the IRCC
[11:08] <AlanBell> There is no particular reason why we have to have one chair throughout the term of this council, so we might shuffle things about at some stage
[11:08] <AlanBell> but right now I am happy to be the
[11:08] <AlanBell> chair
[11:08] <bkerensa> \o/
[11:08] <topyli> great!
[11:08] <AlanBell> !return | AlanBell
[11:09] <oCean> haha
[11:09] <topyli> eh
[11:09] <topyli> heh even!
[11:09] <funkyHat> ⢁) AlanChair
[11:09] <AlanBell> #subtopic the empty seat
[11:09] <AlanBell> As you may have gathered, the IRCC should be 5 people and we have 4.
[11:10] <AlanBell> We will leave the seat empty for the time being, our colleagues from the Community Council will be assisting us in the short term
[11:10] <AlanBell> we hope to hold an election to fill the remaining seat during the Q cycle.
[11:10] <AlanBell> That post would be set to expire at the same time as the current council so it would be a slightly shorter term than normal
[11:11] <AlanBell> any comments on that plan?
[11:11] <LjL> for the record, i don't see it as a very pressing matter
[11:12] <oCean> Agreed, I think the way AlanBell describes is just fine
[11:12] <topyli> theoretically it can lead to tricky votes though, but that's why we have a chairman
[11:13] <AlanBell> yeah, I am not really anticipating a deadlock on anything, but if we do I would certainly want the opinion of our CC advisors before using the casting vote
[11:13] <Pici> Agreed.
[11:13] <topyli> yes
[11:14] <AlanBell> ok, slight change to the agenda has been requested and I am bumping the #lubuntu item up to the top to allow people to get away
[11:14] <AlanBell> #topic Welcoming #lubuntu
[11:14] <bkerensa> :)
[11:14] <Pici> Hi #lubuntu!
[11:15] <AlanBell> we have put out the call for ops for the #lubuntu channel which is great
[11:15] <Myrtti> finally :-P
[11:15] <AlanBell> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/01/06/lubuntu-call-for-operators/
[11:15] <topyli> i think the nomination period ends right about now, wo we should have ops soon
[11:16] <AlanBell> looks like 12 people found their way through the application process to hit the join button https://launchpad.net/~irc-lubuntu-ops/+members
[11:16] <Unit193> Oh, right. Hello
[11:16] <Myrtti> AlanBell: btw jussi is still listed as an admin of that?
[11:16] <AlanBell> after the meeting we will mail the IRC discussion list with the list of names and links to wiki pages and invite comments from the existing ops
[11:17] <AlanBell> Myrtti: refresh the page ;)
[11:17] <Myrtti> good good
[11:17] <Pici> Of course people are free to make commentary to the IRCC directly if they feel it more appropriate.
[11:17] <Myrtti> I had been wondering about that fr a week or so now
[11:17] <AlanBell> yes, please email us directly or pop into #ubuntu-irc-council
[11:18] <AlanBell> I think we should go through and make our decisions some point this week
[11:19] <Myrtti> I would like to make a request
[11:19] <Pici> Sure.
[11:20] <Myrtti> would the IRC council consider the possibility of allowing the applicants to see the comments others have left after the nominations, anonymised if needed, if they so request?
[11:20] <Myrtti> I'd personally benefit from hearing what others think I may need to improve on
[11:21] <bkerensa> +1
[11:21]  * AlanBell ponders
[11:21] <Myrtti> I don't need a reply to that now, just tossed it out there
[11:21] <Unit193> That'd help, if I knew them at all they could PM me (best to do it when mi"M more awake)
[11:22] <topyli> if we decide to do so, we should mention this when requesting comments
[11:22] <LjL> topyli: yes
[11:22] <Pici> Constructive critisicm is good, I don't see any obvious downsides at the moment.
[11:22] <Pici> topyli: and that
[11:22] <AlanBell> ok, people are encouraged to leave comments and testimonials on wiki pages, or pass private comments to the council - which I think would not be expected to be passed on, however when we accept / decline people we can pass feedback to them
[11:22] <AlanBell> I think if someone is being declined we should explain why
[11:23] <Myrtti> the reason I'm asking this is that when I applied for -server ops I got nothing on the wiki page
[11:23] <Unit193> I'd even like to know what I can work on if I am accepted
[11:23] <Pici> Agreed. I think the decline comments have either been very vague or non-existant as of late.
[11:23] <AlanBell> Myrtti: you are still in the pending queue for server ops
[11:23] <Myrtti> AlanBell: possibly, I haven't checked
[11:24] <AlanBell> I have :)
[11:24] <Pici> Myrtti: We're aware that the current queues are something that we need to work.
[11:24] <topyli> we could tidy up the comments even to the point of just listing bullet points or something
[11:25] <AlanBell> ok, so this week we will be accepting a bunch of operators into the induction period
[11:25] <Myrtti> anyway, as an active ops on #ubuntu I'm used to getting negative, nonconstructive criticism all the time, but it's the constructive I've not had for years
[11:25] <topyli> heh
[11:25] <AlanBell> and we want to be a bit more organised about induction this time
[11:26] <AlanBell> we will be assigning mentors as we have done in the past, but we are also going to organise a number of training sessions in -classroom
[11:26] <AlanBell> stuff like how to set bans, extbans, IPV6 bans etc
[11:26] <AlanBell> how to mediate with problem users
[11:26] <LjL> good idea
[11:26] <AlanBell> how the bots work
[11:26] <oCean> +1
[11:27] <AlanBell> even bots not currently used in #lubuntu, when they have 1600 idlers they might well want floodbots
[11:27] <Myrtti> sounds like a good idea even for current ops
[11:27] <Myrtti> of other channels
[11:27] <Pici> Aye
[11:27] <AlanBell> yes, they would be open to all
[11:27] <topyli> lecturers are obviously most welcome :)
[11:28] <LjL> i'd like to nominate myself for that, will have a talk with you about it latert
[11:28] <Myrtti> call for lecturers in the mailing list?
[11:28] <Myrtti> or is this it :-P?
[11:28] <AlanBell> yeah, but we need to have a chat about the topics to cover in a bit more detail
[11:29] <Myrtti> I'll volunteer for Irssi basics if such is deemed as interesting to people
[11:29] <AlanBell> great
[11:29] <AlanBell> so yes we will do a call for instructors, perhaps with some specific topics we want to include
[11:30] <AlanBell> and some people might be voluntold
[11:30] <Pici> Hopefully not though ;)
[11:30] <Unit193> Yeah, that'd be interesetngi to attend as long as wit was  a good time (irssi one)
[11:30] <AlanBell> Pici: it is an akgranerism I just wanted to use ;)
[11:30] <Pici> AlanBell: ;)
[11:32] <Myrtti> perhaps a Google poll /similar would be good to have to get a feeling on what might be wanted in addition to the basics
[11:32] <LjL> why Google? we have Launchpad, and it provides such fines polls!
[11:32] <AlanBell> so in summary, please comment on the applicants to help us decide (and decide who needs which mentor), the new ops will be invited into -ops (where they will be advised to be slient in the short term) and -ops-team and have bantracker access
[11:32] <AlanBell> and we will be doing a structured training course
[11:33] <AlanBell> looking at dates, it seems the induction will basically run to the Precise launch date which is nice
[11:33] <AlanBell> any more to say on the topic of welcoming #lubuntu and the new ops?
[11:34] <funkyHat> I'll just say welcome as well ■▎⢁)
[11:34] <AlanBell> ok, thanks Unit193, feel free to stick around or wander off o/
[11:35] <AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
[11:35] <AlanBell> #progress topyli to finally mail council about the operator recruitment process
[11:35] <Unit193> Right, thanks AlanBell! I'll read the rest when I wake up
[11:35] <AlanBell> well we have been kind of discussing this one a bit
[11:35] <topyli> i haven't mailed the council, so this is not done
[11:36] <AlanBell> we have a bug for this topic, I would be quite happy to just have comments on that
[11:36] <Pici> We have been looking at metrics from the last few rounds of recruitment drives
[11:37] <AlanBell> I think we should park this action, and come back to it when we get to reviewing bug 884671 in a minute
[11:37] <AlanBell> #progress topyli to ask if eir can be tweaked to ignore floodbots
[11:37] <AlanBell> heh, you did this :)
[11:38] <topyli> done! yeah!
[11:38] <Myrtti> booyah
[11:38] <AlanBell> the response was unenthusiastic
[11:38] <Pici> Not surprising imo.
[11:38] <topyli> it was. but patches are welcome
[11:39] <AlanBell> I never understood this request tbh, eir dealing with floodbot bans is a good thing right?
[11:39] <AlanBell> just eir shouldn't ban the floodbots
[11:39] <LjL> AlanBell: eir actually nags the floodbots though
[11:39] <topyli> LjL: you also had a plan B of some sort, making the floodbots ignore eir :)
[11:39] <LjL> yeah. i just wonder one thing
[11:40] <LjL> is it actually helpful for eir to spell out each mute that the floodbots do?
[11:40] <LjL> i think it does, and found it quite annoying in -ops-team
[11:40] <funkyHat> Yes I was going to say, the other issue is how much eir is flooding -ops-team
[11:40] <AlanBell> ok, lets move on from this action which was done, and come back to eir/floodbots in a sec with the bugs
[11:41] <AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
[11:41] <AlanBell> we have closed an action which was a duplicate of the lauchpad bug about eir
[11:41] <AlanBell> there was an old appeals process, did that get closed topyli?
[11:42] <topyli> it sort of did. the user is not convinced, but i don't think we can improve our decision to please them even more
[11:43] <AlanBell> ok, and their ban has been resolved anyway
[11:43] <topyli> it is, the user just sometimes still complains about it being there in the first place
[11:44] <topyli> but that's a different problem
[11:44] <AlanBell> ok, can we close it without the system sending them a mail to remind them about it?
[11:44] <topyli> yes, close it
[11:44] <topyli> we'll get to bantracker zero!d
[11:44] <AlanBell> last activity on that was in November
[11:45] <AlanBell> yup, then we have nothing in the private tracker at all
[11:45] <topyli> but now we have lots of launchpad bugs :)
[11:45] <AlanBell> yes
[11:46] <AlanBell> if anything comes back in the tracker we will mention it in a future meeting
[11:46] <AlanBell> but launchpad bugs are the way forward
[11:46] <AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
[11:46] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 892501 Floodbots - need a re-write to be under ubuntu operator team control - ikonia
[11:46] <AlanBell> Fix committed \o/
[11:47] <AlanBell> I am very pleased to announce that the floodbots will go through a managed process of being open sourced
[11:47] <topyli> there are beginnings of a project to get on with this
[11:47] <Pici> yay
[11:47] <oCean> nice
[11:47] <AlanBell> The first step happened this week when we worked with LJL to set up a launchpad project for them
[11:47] <AlanBell> Canonical have provided private code hosting and a small team will work with LJL to get the code ready for wider public scrutiny.
[11:48] <AlanBell> The first commit of the floodbot code was done on Tuesday
[11:48] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/floodbot
[11:48] <LjL> I'd like anyone who would like to work on the floodbots code to get in contact with the IRC Council or me.
[11:49] <AlanBell> yup, that would be great
[11:49] <AlanBell> I think we now have a good strategy for the future of the floodbots and I believe the concerns expressed in this bug are now resolved
[11:50] <topyli> i agree
[11:50] <AlanBell> any further high level comments about the floodbots? we can discuss details at a later meeting I think
[11:51] <AlanBell> ok, moving on
[11:51] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 892500 eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu -ikonia
[11:52] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots?field.searchtext=[eir]
[11:52] <AlanBell> I have been trying to understand eir a bit, and what it does, and what it should do
[11:53] <AlanBell> and I have been trying a few different experiments, figuring out how we can make the messages more useful by linking them to the bantracker etc
[11:53] <LjL> I'd much rather see ubottu managing these things than eir. If the FloodBots not being "under operator team control" was a problem, then I don't see how eir is any better in this.
[11:53] <AlanBell> also discovered that when it does a nagflood it maxes out at 10 messages
[11:53] <Pici> I personally think that its features should be folded into ubottu (either new bantracker or old).  The current implementation is a bit clunky and of course we don't have direct control.
[11:54] <oCean> I agree with LjL and Pici
[11:54] <AlanBell> I think now eir is configured reasonably well, and being used reasonably well, but still doesn't add a huge amount of value
[11:55] <AlanBell> it seems that the floodbots could be extended to tidy up their own bans or ubottu could be extended to do the good bits of what eir does
[11:56] <AlanBell> improving eir and contributing back enhancements to freenode is an appealing concept, but fewer bots seems like a less complicated architecture
[11:56] <Pici> I think thats something that most of us can agree with
[11:57] <oCean> Indeed, integrating both bots is never going to be easy, and probably needs effort on both bots
[11:57] <LjL> What is it exactly that ubottu and the floodbots don't do yet?
[11:57] <oCean> LjL: remind us of expired bans
[11:57] <funkyHat> Annoy the ops in -team ;D
[11:58] <LjL> Doesn't ubottu does that in PM though?
[11:58] <topyli> funkyHat: a noble cause! :)
[11:58] <oCean> right, on a per-op basis. The nagging in the team channel, so ops could see each others bans, is not a feature requested by ops but by the ircc originially i think
[11:59] <LjL> Well, I suppose nagging everyone has a purpose, but in my opinion it just means that everyone will ignore all the spam.
[11:59] <LjL> To me, doing it in PM seems much cleaner.
[11:59] <LjL> If an op wants to review someone else's bans, they can still do it through the bantracker.
[12:00] <oCean> I agree, and I still like to know whether we are responsible for each others bans or not, and to what extent
[12:01] <AlanBell> I think the policy is that people don't "own" bans as such
[12:01] <Pici> Agreed.
[12:02] <topyli> do the bans pile up less now though? that was the original purpose i think
[12:02] <oCean> topyli: yes, there's a nice trend http://status.nullcortex.com/other/other/ircbans.html
[12:02] <Pici> I think they've improvd that. ^^
[12:02] <topyli> i think there are less panic situations about full trackers
[12:03] <Pici> Definitely that as well.
[12:03] <LjL> topyli: ubottu was also changed to remind us of bans, though, as mentioned. How much is it eir and how much is it ubottu?
[12:03] <funkyHat> Would it be possible to have some bot give a list of bans periodically in -team, ideally with more than one ban per message?
[12:03] <funkyHat> So we would still get the reminders, but with significantly reduced annoyance?
[12:03] <topyli> LjL: that's true
[12:04] <LjL> funkyHat: To what purpose? You can get at the bans with a /mode b, and if you cram them into one message, there won't be space for any comments about them so what's the added value?
[12:04] <oCean> funkyHat, LjL : that's what I intended with my script, this overview hold more (useful i hope) information
[12:04] <LjL> yes
[12:04] <LjL> indeed, I was going to ask - what about *statistics* in #ubuntu-ops-team instead?
[12:05] <LjL> not the individual bans, but information about the status
[12:05] <funkyHat> LjL: I'm thinking of something similar to eir's current behaviour, where it nags about recent bans or bans that haven't been put on a quiet list
[12:05] <oCean> LjL: exactly, a per-op reminder and general stats in -team
[12:05] <LjL> funkyHat: I think we'd get the same complaints we have now about eir. Ops won't accept something that they feel has no added value to just peeking the banlist.
[12:06] <Pici> Much to the chagrin of the bot coders, I think we may need to play with a few implementations to see what works best.
[12:06] <AlanBell> agreed
[12:06] <AlanBell> bit of prototyping and experimenting
[12:07] <oCean> Really? Shouldn't we just start with requirements?
[12:07] <AlanBell> where is the fun in that?
[12:07] <topyli> hehe
[12:07] <LjL> I lean on the prototyping and experimenting
[12:07] <AlanBell> anyhow, please file requirements as bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots?field.searchtext=[eir]
[12:07] <oCean> really? isn't that what got us in this situation?
[12:07] <Pici> oCean: Of course. But we know that sometimes whats described in features doesn't always translte well to practice.
[12:07] <funkyHat> LjL: hm ok. I would find that less annoying than the current behaviour, but if it's going to still annoy others just as much then there's no point
[12:07] <oCean> a requirement as a bug?
[12:08] <AlanBell> oCean: yes
[12:08] <AlanBell> so they can be tracked and discussed
[12:08] <LjL> oCean: I don't think so. What got us in this situation was prototyping and experimenting that kind of failed, but which was still pushed.
[12:08] <funkyHat> Yes that's pretty standard practise for software development ;)
[12:08] <funkyHat> (requirements as bugs)
[12:08] <AlanBell> tag it [eir] for the time being even though it might not end up implemented in eir
[12:10] <AlanBell> ok, I think until the next meeting we should keep eir, whilst actively tinkering with other plans, make sense?
[12:10] <LjL> I'm not so sure. What about we tentatively remove eir and "advertize" ubottu's ability to remind of bans, and see if the banlist grows?
[12:11] <oCean> Yes, I'm all for removing it
[12:11] <AlanBell> dunno, what does everyone think? speak now . . .
[12:11] <funkyHat> I agree with LjL, we've had quite a long time of "testing" eir and people still aren't happy with it. Lets test not having it and see what goes wrong
[12:11] <topyli> afaik eir also has handy autoremove timeouts, which ubottu doesn't
[12:12] <AlanBell> ah, it also has a load of them in it's memory right now
[12:12] <Pici> I personally have been using those autoremove things, and I've noticed that a number of other ops do as well.
[12:12] <Pici> Despite the spam, I find that a worthwile feature.
[12:12] <LjL> Is it possible then to just remove some of the nagging from #ubuntu-ops-team?
[12:13] <AlanBell> we could maybe shut it up, or move the control channel?
[12:13] <LjL> #ubuntu-ops-monitor would be a more fit place in my opinion
[12:13] <LjL> It's a more "opt in" channel
[12:13] <Pici> LjL: me too
[12:13] <Pici> er, mine too
[12:14] <AlanBell> right now if someone set a %~30d eir will have it on the todo list to remove that, I wouldn't want to remove eir right now and have that not happen
[12:14] <LjL> That's a valid point.
[12:14] <oCean> AlanBell: there's bans set #~365d - we have to wait at least 1 year?
[12:15] <LjL> oCean: Well, no, it would "simply" require a transfer to ubottu
[12:15] <AlanBell> oCean: not too worried about # it is the % I want to happen
[12:15] <oCean> AlanBell: nvm the # or %, it's as LjL says, at one point we have to transfer it.
[12:16] <LjL> Well, oCean, we simply can't do it right now, ubottu doesn't have the code for *that* yet
[12:16] <oCean> I understand
[12:16] <oCean> Ok, best choice seems to be to leave eir in the channel then
[12:17] <AlanBell> ok, so should we find out if we can move the eir control channel to -ops-monitor and maybe turn down the nag frequency to 24 hours or something?
[12:17] <topyli> let's see if we can make it more quiet one way or another, but leave it
[12:17]  * bkerensa must depart to bed (4:17am) gnight
[12:17] <LjL> AlanBell: I don't care how frequent it is as long as it's in #ubuntu-ops-monitor personally
[12:17] <Pici> LjL: Is there any problem with eir sending notices to -ops-monitor?
[12:17] <oCean> AlanBell: please note that the nag frequency is the same as the frequency that eir uses to actually remove
[12:18] <LjL> Pici: technical problems you mean? There shouldn't be, but if the floodbots act up, it should be easy to fix them
[12:18] <AlanBell> bots shouldn't react to notices (that is what they are for)
[12:18] <Pici> LjL: okay
[12:18] <LjL> AlanBell: Well, the floodbots do react to notices in #ubuntu, by banning the noticer :)
[12:18] <AlanBell> heh, OK
[12:18] <topyli> moving the nags seems like the best solution that would let people who want to see them still enjoy them
[12:19] <funkyHat> +1
[12:19] <AlanBell> ok, lets find out if we can do that without it forgetting its current todo list for #ubuntu
[12:19] <LjL> AlanBell: Unfortunately or whatever, there is a difference between what the RFC say and what people use notices for...
[12:20] <oCean> Can I ask if generating my overview every now and then is useful?
[12:20] <AlanBell> #action ircc to move eir control channel to -ops-monitor if this will preserve existing ban timeouts
[12:20] <meetingology> ACTION: ircc to move eir control channel to -ops-monitor if this will preserve existing ban timeouts
[12:20] <AlanBell> oCean: yes, it is
[12:21] <LjL> is
[12:21] <oCean> Ok, does it need some form of pw protection?
[12:21] <AlanBell> ok, lets move on to the next bug
[12:21] <LjL> oCean: i wouldn't think so, it's all info that can be obtained from /mode b, no?
[12:21] <oCean> LjL: no, not the expiry times
[12:21] <LjL> Ah, I see.
[12:22] <LjL> Maybe that does.
[12:22] <oCean> Ok, I'll look into that, let's continue
[12:22] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 912783 IRC votes and surveys go to the ubuntu members which excludes some operators - LJL
[12:22] <AlanBell> we have discussed this internally and with the CC
[12:23] <AlanBell> there are two slightly separate questions here, voting and the survey
[12:23] <AlanBell> the irc Members group was set up specifically for voting and we want Ubuntu Members to have a say in the governance of Ubuntu
[12:23] <topyli> ultimately it's up to the CC who are included in the electorate, not us. but surveys are another thing
[12:24] <AlanBell> if you are an op in a core channel then that is a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and you would be well placed to apply for membership through the IRCC or another membership body
[12:25] <AlanBell> the recent survey was deliberately sent to the IRC Members, but future surveys if we do them could be sent to all members, all ops, ops of specific channels or any other arbitary group that seems sensible at the time based on what we want to ask
[12:26] <LjL> Please consider the possibility of more actively encouraging ops to become members, then, and make it clear they don't have to feel embarrassed if their only contribution appears to be being an op.
[12:26] <AlanBell> yes, lets do that
[12:26] <Pici> aye aye
[12:26] <topyli> yes
[12:27] <AlanBell> ok, so we will add a comment to that effect to the bug and close it off I think
[12:27] <LjL> Ok.
[12:27] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi
[12:27] <AlanBell> this is how the core ops team has grown over the last 2 years http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/coreops.png
[12:28] <AlanBell> about 4 people per release cycle
[12:28] <topyli> we certainly don't want the process to discourage people from applying. where it does, we should of course fix it
[12:28] <AlanBell> we currently have 23 applications pending for core channels (which includes existing ops, and probably people we would decline)
[12:29] <AlanBell> I am thinking that we should use the #lubuntu induction as a model and move to a more release cycle based regular thing across all channels
[12:29] <AlanBell> so each release we would process the pending queues for all channels and then run an induction/training for the new intake all together
[12:29] <topyli> sometimes we just need ops and sometimes we don't, though
[12:30] <LjL> I was honestly thinking of a move in the opposite direction, i.e. going back (*additionally*, not as a substitute to the process!) to actively "pinging" people who the council finds fit, and making the process as smooth as possible for them.
[12:30] <AlanBell> so we might end up overstaffed in a few areas
[12:30] <AlanBell> how is that a bad thing?
[12:30] <LjL> I've been here for some time, and while of course things have changed and cannot be treated the same way as before, I guarantee that the old way of appointing ops had its share of advantages.
[12:31] <LjL> I certainly wouldn't make it a *more* process-driven thing than it is now.
[12:31] <topyli> AlanBell: well it would be a good problem to have if anything, i suppose .)
[12:31] <AlanBell> LjL: I can certainly see us encouraging some people to apply, I am just thinking of making it more regular and predictable and in line with the cadence of the release cycle
[12:32] <LjL> AlanBell: But why? If someone can be a good op *now*, and the Council knows that, why wait?
[12:32] <AlanBell> LjL: at the moment we keep people "like Myrtti in -server" hanging for so long in the queue that they forget they are there
[12:33] <AlanBell> LjL: so that we can do a more organised induction
[12:33] <LjL> AlanBell: Well, then maybe you aren't all so convinced they should be good ops, or something. I don't know - what's stopping you from accepting or declining?
[12:33] <Myrtti> the what huh?
[12:33] <ikonia> -server is crazy
[12:33] <ikonia> for some reason we won't put ops in it ???
[12:33] <ikonia> I've sat on the list for about 18 months now
[12:34] <funkyHat> I think I'm on the pending list for -server too, heh
[12:34] <oCean> I'm too, I think...
[12:34] <AlanBell> LjL: applications from existing ops we could probably process very fast and as they happen
[12:34] <Pici> I think we need to actively work the list, not wait for a new cycle.
[12:34] <LjL> Pici: +1
[12:34] <oCean> +1
[12:34] <ikonia> it would be helpful to decline people who are not fit quicker
[12:35] <ikonia> rather than making them go through the song and dance
[12:35] <ikonia> be a bit more common sense rather than ticking boxes
[12:35] <topyli> well, in principle nothing prevents us from giving ops to anyone we like as it. we just haven't done so
[12:35] <Pici> ikonia: I was just going to say something like that
[12:35] <topyli> as it is*
[12:35] <ikonia> topyli: -ops is a great example of that
[12:35] <LjL> topyli: Is there a particular reason then?
[12:36] <ikonia> I was told to go through the whole application process, update my wiki all that sort of stuff to get ops in -ops, and to be honest, it just seemed like a waste of time as at that moment, we where empty handed
[12:36] <ikonia> in the same way for server
[12:36] <ikonia> at the time I applied -server was getting hit with issues, but the processes was a total waste of time
[12:37] <topyli> i can't remember why we don't. i do know why the process ended up like it is, but i don't know how we stopped the "old way"
[12:37] <ikonia> rather than applying common sense
[12:37] <AlanBell> ok, I think we need common sense and a fast process for existing ops adding more channels
[12:37] <LjL> Seriously, "good" people will burn out before they have a chance of getting ops. It's happening.
[12:37] <ikonia> exactly
[12:38] <ikonia> you get fed up of trying to push it/get the issue resolved
[12:38] <LjL> And tight processes like this always end up scarying away "good" people who don't like to brag, and attract sillier people instead.
[12:38] <ikonia> but the opposite is also true,
[12:38] <ikonia> someone like bacta can apply for ops and be told to go through the proces
[12:38] <Pici> I say we work the queues every meeting and look at our procedures for adding existing ops on-the-fly
[12:38] <ikonia> rather than just saying "no, that's not going to happen"
[12:39] <funkyHat> Pici: +1
[12:39] <Pici> or before every meeting, or some other sane but regular cycle
[12:39] <ikonia> isn't there a team owning this ?
[12:39] <AlanBell> getting it regular is what I am aiming for
[12:39] <ikonia> eg: when someone applies, deal with the request
[12:39] <LjL> Pici: That's fine, but please please also don't sleep on people you spot in #ubuntu or anywhere who you think are good, and as AlanBell says, "voluntell" them.
[12:40] <AlanBell> "When the Ubuntu IRC Council notices the need to have more operators in a particular channel or channels, they will send an email to the ubuntu-irc mailing list."
[12:40] <AlanBell> that is the level of current regularity
[12:40] <Pici> Working the queues != asking for more ops
[12:40] <LjL> AlanBell: Getting it regular also risks meaning closing the door to some lovely irregularities. I hope you don't want that to happen.
[12:42] <funkyHat> I think whatever "policy" we have on the process we can still make common sense exceptions, like ikonia said
[12:42] <Pici> (We've been at this for nearly two hours now :/)
[12:42] <LjL> The fact you all have been chosen for this IRC Council position *does* mean you're trusted to know who deserves being dragged into being an op.
[12:42] <AlanBell> LjL: it is the epic long waits on the pending list I want to stop
[12:43] <AlanBell> ok, lets move on from this now, we can revisit at the next meeting and add comments to the bug in the mean time. We will be doing some recruitment in the very short term with #lubuntu
[12:43] <ikonia> just noticed my -server join request has expired
[12:43] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell
[12:43] <LjL> We used to have a script to check that, does it still work?
[12:44] <AlanBell> about 19 people we need to clean up and nhandler detailed the process for us
[12:44] <AlanBell> LjL: yeah, works a treat
[12:44] <AlanBell> not much to discuss on this bug, we will be dealing with it and update on the situation next meeting
[12:44] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 887544 No measurable data on ban resolving process in #ubuntu-ops - jussi
[12:45] <Pici> Is this really an issue?
[12:45] <AlanBell> there has been a bit of debate on this bug, the concensus appears to be that it is hard to make any measurements and the value of them is a bit questionable
[12:46] <AlanBell> I am inclined to close it until someone comes up with something they want to measure and a plan of how to do so
[12:46] <topyli> no progress, but also no hurry. some interesting/useful data could probably be generated, but i'm not exactly sure what
[12:47] <LjL> There's no harm in keeping stuff open if the idea is still... open, I think
[12:47] <AlanBell> maybe we could set it to opinion or something to indicate it is on hold rather than closed
[12:47] <topyli> yes
[12:47] <Pici> [wishlist]?
[12:47] <AlanBell> great, moving on
[12:48] <AlanBell> Pici: makes sense
[12:48] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell
[12:48] <AlanBell> we appear to have a somewhat spam filled mediawiki instance kicking about
[12:49] <Pici> I'd like to see this moved to wiki.u.c
[12:49] <AlanBell> I would propose we evacuate any decent content (technical stuff about the bots mostly) to wiki.ubuntu.com and shut down this wiki
[12:49] <funkyHat> +1
[12:49] <topyli> agreed
[12:49] <AlanBell> ok lets do that and update next meeting
[12:49] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson
[12:50] <LjL> I would also out of courtesy discuss it with tsimpson...
[12:50] <Pici> +1, but I'd like to hear from ts2 and jussi as to why i
[12:50] <Pici> yes
[12:50] <AlanBell> agreed LjL
[12:50] <topyli> there is the guidelines draft and it's improved, but it still needs a bit of love
[12:51] <AlanBell> ok, don't think I have seen that, lets review it and try and close this one next meeting
[12:51] <Pici> sounds good to me
[12:51] <AlanBell> that is the end of our bug review \o/
[12:52] <AlanBell> future meetings will be shorter
[12:52] <AlanBell> #topic Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi
[12:52] <AlanBell> this was added by jussi, not sure he is available right now
[12:53] <Pici> I don't see why this can't be done on the mailing list and perhaps in the topic of -ops and -irc
[12:53] <AlanBell> basically we will announce things in a meeting, and on the mailing list
[12:54] <Myrtti> not -ops-team?
[12:54] <AlanBell> I think we should leave this item on the agenda for the next meeting when maybe jussi is available, there is some more text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[12:54] <Myrtti> there's people in there that aren't idling on -ops
[12:54] <Pici> Myrtti: thats good too
[12:54] <AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, that too
[12:54] <Myrtti> and vice versa, so all three would probably be good
[12:55] <topyli> they should also end up in the team reports, for future generations to cherish
[12:55] <AlanBell> yeah, I think he was encouraging us to set up a blog/twitter thing, which I am not overly keen on
[12:55] <AlanBell> IRC seems the natural medium for the IRCC to make announcements on
[12:56] <topyli> we do blog about stuff and it ends up on planet
[12:56] <AlanBell> yup
[12:56] <ikonia> "just banned a user, lol"
[12:56] <ikonia> twitter.....really ?
[12:56] <LjL> topyli: Maybe you could just agree to tag stuff relevant to the IRC Council with a standard tag?
[12:57] <topyli> we could. i've been ucing 'ircc' myself
[12:57]  * Pici is running low on laptop (and huamn) energy.
[12:57] <AlanBell> lets park this idea to the next meeting, suggestions and comments welcome in the mean time
[12:57] <topyli> ikonia: :)
[12:57] <AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
[12:57] <funkyHat> I have a quick one, dax pointed out that external links on irclogs.ubuntu.com should have rel="nofollow". I submitted a fix to irclog2html, which has been accepted, we could easily patch our local copy pending a new release
[12:57] <funkyHat> https://bugs.launchpad.net/irclog2html/+bug/914553
[12:57] <AlanBell> good one, yes
[12:57] <funkyHat> I also wrote a one-liner to fix the existing logs
[12:58] <funkyHat> Who has access to the server to apply that?
[12:58] <AlanBell> um, an rt request perhaps?
[12:58] <Pici> We'd need to get this implemented with rt, wich probably isn't going to be too keen on not using a repo provided update
[12:59] <Pici> although it doesn't hurt to try
[12:59] <AlanBell> ok, lets add that one to our todo list to update for the next meeting
[12:59] <LjL> Last meeting (or the one before the last) I mentioned whether it would be a good idea for a bot to tell banned users about their ban and relevant stuff (like how to appeal and how NOT to appeal), I don't suppose it has been considered further?
[12:59] <AlanBell> LjL: don't think it has been considered further, but we can add it to the next meeting
[12:59] <ikonia> certainly a good idea to point them to -ops
[13:00] <ikonia> don't think throwing stuff like !appeals at each ban is wise
[13:00] <topyli> LjL: it hasn't, but i like the idea
[13:00] <LjL> ikonia: i was thinking of a custom and well-thought message.
[13:00] <LjL> which would mainly point them to -ops and tell them how to behave there.
[13:00] <ikonia> LjL: pretty worth while
[13:01] <LjL> (technically, the floodbots could do it easily)
[13:01] <AlanBell> I like that idea, will add it as a feature bug in the cloud of eir related requirements
[13:01] <Pici> uh oh, laptop is beeping at me now.
[13:02] <AlanBell> ok, any more items?
[13:02] <AlanBell> 3
[13:02] <AlanBell> 2
[13:02] <AlanBell> 1
[13:02] <LjL> WAIT
[13:02] <Pici> Nothing from me, but will review the minutes after I wake up further later ;
[13:02] <LjL> no, nothing
[13:02] <Pici> )
[13:02] <AlanBell> #endmeeting
[13:02] <oCean> :)
[13:02] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jan 14 13:02:32 2012 UTC.
[13:02] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-14-10.59.moin.txt
[13:02] <Pici> Thanks for the very productive meeting everyone :)
[13:02] <AlanBell> thanks all for attending this omnibus edition of the IRCC meeting
[13:02] <topyli> made it through!
[13:03] <funkyHat> ❡⢁)
[13:03] <AlanBell> future meetings will be much shorter or split across two meetings
[13:03] <AlanBell> I just wanted to get everything covered in this one without rushing people too much
[13:03] <topyli> yes. we know know what's on the plate
[13:04] <AlanBell> I will sort the minutes after lunch :)
[13:04] <oCean> thanks guys
[13:04] <topyli> thanks all
[13:05] <Myrtti> thank you
[13:06] <funkyHat> Yep, thanks everyone ❡⢁)


[00:16] <Unit193> xnox: OK, submitted proposal, try not to pull out too much hair.  http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/234/137/5c4.jpg
[01:21] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: what bug is it?
[01:24] <bluesabre> the "check and remove duplicate media entries"?
[01:25] <bluesabre> I'll have a look at that this weekend
[01:25] <bluesabre> btw, thanks to you and anyone else who has contributed to this documentation
[02:27] <bluesabre> ochosi: created an introduction page for parole-docs, feel free to criticise :)
[08:22] <Noskcaj> Has anyone got time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/4.10.1-3 ?
[09:06] <slickymaster> morning all
[09:11] <slickymaster> ochosi: ping
[09:23] <brainwash> ali1234: you still need to add a comment about your xfce4-terminal package to the bug report.. or isn't the package ready yet?
[09:25] <brainwash> oh great, the not working updata-manager restart button has been fixed.. in trusty
[12:36] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, yes the bug I was referring to for the Preferences section is the "check and remove duplicate" thing.
[12:36] <jjfrv8> I've tried hitting it from several angles and it just doesn't seem to work for me. Maybe I'm missing something.
[12:45] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, as for the dvd issues, I first have to use Unit193's workaround "sudo ln -s cdrom /dev/dvd" to get them to read at all...
[12:46] <jjfrv8> then when I try to play a store-bought, encrypted dvd I get "GStreamer backend error. The stream is in the wrong format."
[12:47] <jjfrv8> I do have libdvdcss2 installed but I'm not sure about all the other pre-reqs you have listed on your blog.
[12:50] <jjfrv8> I have different issues with a homemade dvd with chapters, but that's a little complicated to explain here. I guess we'll hold off on that one for now.
[12:51] <jjfrv8> maybe catch up with you this weekend. bye for now.
[14:10] <slickymaster> jjfrv8: ping
[16:29] <jjfrv8-work> slickymaster, you still here?
[16:32] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: yes :)
[16:32] <jjfrv8-work> 'sup?
[16:33] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: just wanted to tell you that I've talked yesterday with elfy, regarding http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=usage and is unable to do it. So, if you want, I can do it
[16:33] <jjfrv8-work> That's fine with me.  Or if you want to split it up somehow by menu selection, I'm okay with that too.
[16:35] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: that's a good idea. As there are six menu items, we can dived them
[16:35] <jjfrv8-work> Okay, I'll give you first choice :)
[16:38] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: It's indifferent :). Alright, I'll take Media, Playback and Audio
[16:38] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: That leaves you with Video, Tools and Help
[16:39] <jjfrv8-work> That'll work.
[16:40] <jjfrv8-work> So what shall we do, draft it up on the playground and then copy and past them after they pass review?
[16:40] <knome> cool, productive sounding stuff :)
[16:41] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: just one thing, I'm planning on inserting some screenshots but I'm not sure if that's alright or not. Do you know if it's supposed to, or not?
[16:41] <jjfrv8-work> I assume so. That's what I did for Preferences and that was following the example of the Xfce Terminal sample.
[16:42] <slickymaster> jjfrv8-work: thanks, that's all I needed to know
[16:43] <jjfrv8-work> slickymaster, thank you and happy drafting!
[16:44] <jjfrv8-work> bbl
[17:20] <slickymaster> knome: ping
[17:23] <knome> slickymaster, pong
[17:24] <slickymaster> knome: I'm not sure whether you'll be able to anwser me or not, anyway here it goes
[17:24] <knome> sure
[17:25] <slickymaster> knome: I'm working on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=parole-docs and I'm planning on inserting some screenshots on the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=usage section
[17:25] <slickymaster> knome: so, my question is do you have any idea of the sizes I should use?
[17:26] <slickymaster> knome: for the screenshots :)
[17:26] <knome> slickymaster, check the xfce wiki
[17:26] <knome> slickymaster, but i would imagine as small as possible but 1:1 is preferred
[17:27] <slickymaster> knome: I'll do that and I'll take your suggestion
[17:27] <slickymaster> knome: always with a helping hand. I appreciate it
[17:28] <knome> but of course :)
[17:29] <slickymaster> knome: as I have here, allow me to ask you something else
[17:29] <knome> yup
[17:30] <slickymaster> knome: I'm on the verge of finishing the xubuntu-docs translation (I've almost 70% done), when I'll finish do I have to make a merge porposal?
[17:30] <knome> nope
[17:30] <knome> the translations are updated automatically to the branch
[17:31] <slickymaster> knome: thanks. I won't bother anymore
[17:31] <slickymaster> for now, that is ;)
[17:31] <knome> np, and have fun
[17:31] <slickymaster> always
[17:37] <knome> bbl
[18:29] <Unit193> jjfrv8: Yeah, I had/have libdvdcss and everything else needed to play dvds.
[23:14] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: yeah, I'm not sure what the issue is, but dvd support in 13.10 seems to be completely messed up
[23:15] <bluesabre> it works completely fine in 13.04, so I think i can avoid blame... :)
[23:15] <knome> you can't
[23:15] <knome> ;)
[23:15] <bluesabre> drat!
[23:19] <brainwash> what is wrong with dvd support?
[23:23] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, bummer. I'll go ahead and install 13.04 then and use that for working through the docs.
[23:25] <Unit193> I don't know, Works for me™ (Well, as much as any videos do, so meh.)
[23:30] <Unit193> The Lost World works for me at least, just tried it.  VLC and mplayer.
[23:30] <brainwash> and parole?
[23:30] <Unit193> Purged a while ago.
[23:31] <brainwash> parole isn't that bad
[23:31] <brainwash> does not deserve to be purged
[23:31] <Unit193> Heh.
[23:33] <brainwash> finally some fixes will be released, the update-manager restart button gets fixed and somewhat "soon" the xfce4-terminal encoding menu segfault
[23:35] <Unit193> Never tried to use gstreamer to play something directly, not sure if you can.
[23:35] <Unit193> Ah, that's good.
[23:38] <brainwash> but yeah, pushing fixes before final release is way more easier than afterwards
[23:38] <brainwash> some things will be even delayed until 14.04 I assume


[15:20] <blackboxsw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/p5vqBxN4Rq/
[15:21] <blackboxsw> on xenial translates to ENI http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6YCv5VVv4t/
[15:53] <blackboxsw> ok rharper working out --format json for package-uploads script
[15:53] <blackboxsw> thanks for the thoughts there
[15:53] <rharper> cool
[15:53] <rharper> yeah
[15:53] <blackboxsw> package-sponsor rather :/
[17:17] <smoser> blackboxsw: rharper i'm back... s
[17:26] <blackboxsw> ok I'm about to push prackage-uploads script changes to use json backed file.. speedup == 1 second versus 1.5 minuts
[17:26] <blackboxsw> ok I'm about to push prackage-uploads script changes to use json backed file.. speedup == 1 second versus 1.5 minutes
[17:26] <blackboxsw> *package-sponsor*
[17:35] <blackboxsw> ok smoser I can camp in hangout
[17:35] <blackboxsw> if needed
[17:35] <smoser> k
[18:03] <rharper> blackboxsw: \o/
[19:06] <blackboxsw> smoser,  artful  and bionic now pushed. I'm trying to proposals to the trello card
[19:09] <smoser> blackboxsw: ok.
[19:09] <smoser>  https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/uss-tableflip/blob/master/doc/ubuntu_release_process.md
[19:09] <smoser> that now odocuments --update-patches-only
[19:34] <blackboxsw> +1 thank you
[19:41] <smoser> blackboxsw: https://meet.google.com/bxm-azib-mtj
[19:41] <smoser> i'm there
[19:41] <smoser> if you have a minute
[19:41] <blackboxsw> enroute
[20:00] <blackboxsw> smoser: just re-pushed ubuntu/xenial per our discussion
[20:00] <blackboxsw> let's see how that looks, if good I'll do artful/bionic now
[20:00] <blackboxsw> new-upstream-snapshot worked for me and consolidated the two changelog entries
[20:01] <blackboxsw> though my patch to new-upstream-snapshot incorrectly double-appended '-proposed' on the sed line
[20:05] <smoser> blackboxsw: pribably i miscommunicated
[20:05] <smoser> or you didn't p ush something
[20:06] <smoser> what i think we're after is just taking f2140da2bca53cd0509e73b299e9871fba7bab3d
[20:07] <blackboxsw> ohh dumb, right I did the whole thing.
[20:07] <blackboxsw> sorry backing that out
[20:07] <blackboxsw> I pushed too much, wasn't intending that much
[20:07] <smoser> yeah. ok
[20:08] <blackboxsw> yeah I was queueing the next part but forgot to leave that local
[20:08] <smoser> and good to see that it will work :)
[20:11] <blackboxsw> smoser: pushed xenial just the patch
[20:12] <blackboxsw> will push the rest once we are sure ppa has built
[20:12] <blackboxsw> will queue artful and bionic now in the same manner
[20:12] <smoser> you have trailing white space on your entry in debian/changelog
[20:12] <blackboxsw> ahh will fix
[20:12] <smoser> other than that, yeah, that is wahte we're after.
[20:18] <blackboxsw> smoser: did I fix it?
[20:18] <blackboxsw> just pushed
[20:20] <smoser> yeah.
[20:20] <smoser> you want me to push that to upstream/ubuntu/xenial
[20:20] <smoser> or you can
[20:20] <smoser> and then we push 'go' on recipe builds
[20:20] <blackboxsw> ok pushing artful bionix
[20:21] <blackboxsw> I'll let you kick recipe builds
[20:21] <blackboxsw> thanks
[20:21] <smoser> did you push upstream ?
[20:21]  * smoser sees not.
[20:21] <smoser> i'll do that
[20:22] <blackboxsw> didn't push upstream thx
[20:22] <blackboxsw> artful pushed
[20:23] <smoser> "in 5 minutes" https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/+recipe/cloud-init-daily-xenial
[20:23] <blackboxsw> hold up on artful. need to fix version
[20:28] <blackboxsw> bionic and artful pushed to my branch
[20:28] <blackboxsw> bionic and artful pushed to my remote
[20:29] <blackboxsw> smoser: diffs look good, on artful/bionic to me
[20:30] <smoser> artful pushed
[20:31] <smoser> bionic pushed
[20:31] <blackboxsw> thanks, ok looks like xenial built
[20:31] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/+recipe/cloud-init-daily-artful
[20:31] <blackboxsw> so I can new-upstream-snapshot now right?
[20:31] <smoser> and https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/+recipe/cloud-init-daily-bionic
[20:31] <smoser> are going
[20:32] <smoser> you can propose the merge for new-upstream-snapshot, yeah.
[21:29] <blackboxsw> all artful,bionic xenial branches reposted
[21:29] <blackboxsw> https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/348362
[21:30] <blackboxsw> https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/348360
[21:32] <blackboxsw> https://code.launchpad.net/~chad.smith/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/348361
[21:33] <blackboxsw> hrm so my debian/patch doesn't apply now  on those branches.
[21:54] <blackboxsw> ok fixed artful,forgot the new-upstream-snapshot there
[21:54] <blackboxsw> xenial bionic are good


[02:48] <cmaloney> Evening
[13:04] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:56] <cmaloney> TGIF and all that.
[14:08] <cmaloney> Text <- entirety of the plain-text body of a Dodge service specials email I received.
[14:10] <jrwren> all these stupid computer watches stir fond memories of timex datalink
[14:11] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[14:16] <cmaloney> jrwren: I wish I could share in the fond memories
[14:16] <cmaloney> but the Datalink never had decent Linux support. :)
[14:18] <jrwren> truth!
[14:19] <jrwren> that may have been why I stopped using mine.
[14:39] <SneakyPhil> jcastro: the image in your http://www.jorgecastro.org/2015/04/09/keeping-your-options-open/ post is missing
[17:43] <greg-g> rick_h_: "reorg" is the word du month
[17:44] <greg-g> hence the /me breathes
[17:47] <jrwren> greg-g: is new CTO!!!
[18:49] <greg-g> jrwren: not 100% far from the truth
[19:03] <cmaloney> CIO
[19:03] <cmaloney> CGO
[19:03] <cmaloney> Chief Greg Officer.
[19:03] <cmaloney> letterhead: "From the office of my own bad self"


[00:28] <ikonia> 01:28 -!- AmexBallin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Quit: bye nigger]
[00:29] <ikonia> IdleOne: is he known to also hit other channels ?
[00:29] <ikonia> ahh never mind, just saw what you did
[00:30] <IdleOne> Don't know but he left a bad taste
[00:30] <ikonia> he was already banned on webchat
[00:30] <rww> i think that address is probably a proxy, btw
[00:30] <ikonia> I'm not sure if the ip ban applies to webchat - rww ?
[00:31] <ikonia> ahh
[00:31] <IdleOne> then he won't be using that proxy in #ubuntu again
[00:31] <ikonia> I think it's coming from the user Agamanon
[00:31] <ikonia> he's been spamming youtube links earlier
[00:32] <ikonia> and is now making personal threats against me in pm
[00:32] <rww> ikonia: that isn't an IP ban, it's a hostname ban
[00:32] <rww> 00:29:05 -!- mode/#ubuntu [+b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>by IdleOne
[00:32] <rww> note the extra *
[00:32] <ikonia> ah
[00:33] <rww> pretending it wasn't there, I believe it would apply
[00:33] <ikonia> I didn't notice the extra *
[00:33] <IdleOne> I still think we should just ban webchat
[00:34] <rww> Was the user evading a non-webchat ban?
[00:34] <ikonia> no
[00:34] <ikonia> unless it is the same person
[00:34] <ikonia> in which case "yes"
[00:35] <rww> okay, that was incorrectly phrased on my part
[00:35] <rww> Was the user evading a ban that would have applied if they weren't using webchat?
[00:35] <ikonia> not that I'm aware of
[00:35] <rww> then I wonder why we would ban webchat :P
[00:36] <IdleOne> because webchat is not a real irc client
[00:36] <IdleOne> I have no good reason
[00:36] <IdleOne> I just don't like webchat :/
[00:37] <rww> I think we should ban everyone not using irssi or weechat.
[00:37] <IdleOne> agreed
[00:37] <bazhang> bye
[00:37] <IdleOne> lol
[00:38] <rww> (logreaders: I don't actually think that, I think we should bring back frigg and k-line them)
[00:38] <IdleOne> bazhang: rww would be doing us both a favour :)
[01:17] <rww> 01:17:45 -!- Rufus29M<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu-release-party [requested by rww (failz)]
[01:18] <rww> ikonia, IdleOne: that dude came back ^
[01:22] <bazhang> welcome holstein_
[02:02] <holstein_> bazhang: cheers!
[06:35] <tsimpson> *** Please note that ubottu.com is undergoing an upgrade now, expect lag followed by some short downtime. hopefully won't take too long
[06:36] <rww> *** Get your opabuse untrackable bans ready.
[06:38] <valorie> nice, just when release party fills with drunk bros
[06:43] <rww> I've only had to pull out the cluebat for one network-wide troll so far, there are plenty of charges on it
[06:44] <ikonia> only one, excellent
[09:03] <k1l_> !lag
[09:04] <Flannel> k1l_: no, missing.
[09:04] <Flannel> also, underscore!
[09:04] <k1l_> yep, just realised
[09:10] <AlanBell> !ping
[09:10] <k1l_> updated ubottu to 14.04 already? :)
[09:11] <tsimpson_> 13.10 actually
[10:54] <IdleOne> !no isitoutyet is <reply> YES! I mean no... it's not out. - http://bit.ly/Wdxvys
[10:59] <jussi> IdleOne: !!
[10:59] <IdleOne> jussi: !!
[10:59] <jussi> IdleOne: have you not learnt yet? Never do any ubottu adjustment suggested by Pricey :P :P :P :P
[10:59] <ikonia> so basically we are linking to an audio file
[11:00] <ikonia> great for anyone asking for real and in an office
[11:00] <Pricey> The audio file was already there.
[11:00] <IdleOne> err
[11:00] <Pricey> !no isitoutyet is <alias> isitout
[11:00] <IdleOne> I should have made that for #ubuntu-release-party only
[11:00] <Pricey> IdleOne: it 'was'
[11:00] <Pricey> !-isitout
[11:00] <Pricey> So in summary, blame rww.
[11:01] <IdleOne> I guess people will have to turn down their speakers
[11:02] <ikonia> or we could remove the mp3
[11:02] <IdleOne> what sorta party is it without music
[11:03] <Pricey> I bet ikonia succumbs to viruses all the time from his autorun on usb/cd too.
[11:04] <jussi> there are so many autoplay sites out there that I think people are conditioned enough to it, no ?
[11:05] <ikonia> open an mp3 in firefox and it auto plays
[11:05] <Pricey> ikonia: Not for me.
[11:06] <knome> AlanBell, i don't really care about it, just thinking out loud
[11:06] <ikonia> well, that link opens on autoplay for me, don't know if it's that link or all mp3's in general
[11:06] <AlanBell> as skaet was release manager and +V in #ubuntu-release-party and is now at Linaro I asked the release team who should be +V, answer was all of the release team, which is fine
[11:06] <knome> from my point ov view, we should give ops to everybody who's a trusted member of the community
[11:06] <jussi> see, now if you all used preper clients, you could preview the link :D
[11:07] <knome> preper?
[11:07] <AlanBell> knome raised a point about other people being +v or +o in there
[11:07] <jussi> proper
[11:07] <knome> jussi, just pointing out the flaws in you.
[11:07] <jussi> knome: yeah yeah, as always :P
[11:07] <AlanBell> knome: It had very much crossed my mind to +v everyone with a clue
[11:07] <knome> don't think anybody need to be op unless they need to do op stuff
[11:10] <ikonia> does the channel really matter ?
[11:11] <AlanBell> no, not really
[11:11] <ikonia> rww pointed out the use of having an "anything goes" channel to distract from the main channel
[11:11] <AlanBell> it is just bits on a wire
[11:11] <ikonia> but other than that it seems pretty worthless
[11:11] <knome> i think there are users who are honestly lost and are asking about something
[11:11] <ikonia> may as well just unmoderate it and let people blabber and just post the annoucnemtn
[11:12] <ikonia> annoucement
[11:12] <ikonia> knome: that's sad
[11:13] <knome> sad or not... that's how it is.
[11:13] <AlanBell> yeah, it is basically unmoderated, and allowed to blabber
[11:14] <AlanBell> we just +v the person(s) who post the announcement as a feeble effort to avoid confusion
[12:50] <Pici> I think we're getting close.
[12:51] <IdleOne> you feel it?
[12:51] <Pici> in mah bones
[12:53] <DJones> I'm sure they don't release until #ubuntu reaches 1800 users
[13:03] <basketball> hey rww
[13:03] <IdleOne> How can we help you basketball
[13:04] <basketball> rww,  said i would be unbanned and un muted on release of 14.04
[13:04] <IdleOne> it hasn't been released yet
[13:04] <basketball> the release is today
[13:05] <IdleOne> yes
[13:05] <IdleOne> but not released yet
[13:05] <basketball> ok what time is it released
[13:05] <IdleOne> That is the $64000 question
[13:05] <AlanBell> when there is a second email on this page: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-March/thread.html
[13:06] <AlanBell> actually, no, it won't be on that page
[13:06] <AlanBell> when this page exists: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-April/thread.html
[13:07] <IdleOne> I have a funny question to ask you basketball
[13:07] <IdleOne> You applied for ops in #ubuntu?
[13:07] <IdleOne> and are currently banned from the channel you applied for ops in?
[13:08] <basketball> it was a stupid choice i made aND i no longer want ops
[13:09] <IdleOne> indeed. well, when 14.04 is officially released you can send rww a PM and he will remove your ban when he has a chance if that is what he decides to do.
[13:12] <IdleOne> basketball: Please don't idle in here. Happy Tharsday
[13:13] <Pici> shouldn't it be tahrsday
[13:15] <IdleOne> yes :(
[13:18] <Pricey> grumble grumble what does that really achieve grumble grumble
[13:44] <Pici> knome: if they're just going to be quiet, it doesn't really matter if they're in -release
[13:44] <knome> Pici, i know.
[15:34] <PotatoHead007> Hi guys
[15:34] <PotatoHead007> I got banned from the #ubuntu-release-party?
[15:35] <Pici> IdleOne: I think this is yours?
[15:35] <PotatoHead007> requested by ikonia, "No 14.04 for you."
[15:35] <IdleOne> requested by me
[15:35] <IdleOne> and yes you did get banned
[15:36] <IdleOne> how many did you see me remove for posting links?
[15:36] <PotatoHead007> why?
[15:36] <PotatoHead007> oooh
[15:36] <PotatoHead007> Sorry, one of my first times on irc
[15:36] <IdleOne> I'll remove the ban when release is announced.
[15:36] <PotatoHead007> Not yet sure what many of the things mean
[15:36] <PotatoHead007> Ok thanks
[15:37] <PotatoHead007> I'll just stay up until then o.O
[15:51] <Pici> ikonia: did you get the right person?
[15:51] <Pici> I don't see anything from pseubodot
[15:51] <ikonia> I don't not
[15:51] <ikonia> I was just checking that
[15:51] <Pici> I think your tab complete fired right after I kicked them
[15:52] <ikonia> it wasn't a tab complete that's why I'm confused
[15:52] <Pici> oh
[15:53] <ikonia> just sent him a pm with apologies
[16:01] <karab44|2> hello
[16:01] <IdleOne> ban will be removed after release
[16:02] <karab44|2> oh it's you
[16:02] <karab44|2> ban your momm you asshole
[16:03] <IdleOne> thank you
[16:03] <IdleOne> :)
[16:13] <karab44|2> guy has middleage crysis syndrome that explains a lot...
[16:13] <karab44|2> ban me sucker
[16:13] <ikonia> karab44|2: you could just grow up and leave
[16:13] <ikonia> that would be both helpful and appreciated
[16:13] <karab44|2> IdleOne: tell ikonia the reason of banning me
[16:14] <ikonia> karab44|2: please, show a little maturity, /part the channel and come back after the release
[16:14] <karab44|2> yeah, show a little maturity and unban me first. then I'll leave
[16:14] <IdleOne> because you called me a mean name, my feelings were hurt.
[16:19] <knome> notices on -r-p
[16:25] <ikonia> all good ?
[16:26] <knome> yep
[16:26] <IdleOne> yeah
[16:26] <ikonia> excellent, glad thats finally done
[16:26] <ikonia> would you like the honour of the topic in #ubuntu and +1 ?
[16:28] <AlanBell> err, there is no release yet
[16:28] <IdleOne> I think Pici is traditionally the one to have that honor
[16:28] <IdleOne> and no announcement yet
[16:29] <ikonia> oh, I thought it was just annouced in release party, knome ?
[16:29] <AlanBell> no, someone was /noticeing
[16:29] <knome> lol :D
[16:29] <ikonia> oooh
[16:29] <ikonia> oops
[16:29] <ikonia> sorry
[16:29] <IdleOne> we had a couple users sending /notices
[16:29] <knome> well it *was* announced
[16:29] <knome> but not by the release team ;)
[16:29] <knome> but i guess it should be out soon
[16:29] <knome> that kind of movement in -release
[16:38]  * Pici has no idea what kylin is
[16:38] <Pici> oh, chinese
[16:40] <AlanBell> fixed
[16:50] <Pici> I was sort of hoping for the annoucement to come out while you were doing that ikonia
[16:51] <ikonia> ha ha ha, I was a little
[18:07] <Pici> 13.10
[18:07] <Pici> trusy
[18:07] <Pici> saucy
[18:07] <Pici> er
[18:08] <Pici> this isn't my ubottu window
[18:08] <k1l> Pici: no its not :)
[18:12] <IdleOne> !isitout
[18:12] <IdleOne> hmm
[18:16] <knome> !isitout is <reply> Yes!
[18:16] <knome> !no, isitout is <reply> Yes!
[18:16] <AlanBell> fixed
[18:17] <AlanBell> heh, I was just doing that
[18:18] <knome> AlanBell, oh well, better either way
[18:23] <PotatoHead007> oooh
[18:24] <PotatoHead007> Sorry i was in the wrong channel.....
[18:24] <PotatoHead007> I got banned from the #ubuntu-release-party...
[18:24] <PotatoHead007> For posting a link to 14.04 which apparently was wrong
[18:25] <PotatoHead007> Can i get unbanned?
[18:25] <IdleOne> ban removed
[18:25] <PotatoHead007> Thank you :)
[18:55] <Pici> phunyguy: psst
[18:55] <AlanBell> !info gedit
[18:55] <AlanBell> oh, that one is trusty
[18:55] <Pici> phunyguy: hypatia is a (somewhat dormant) -offtopic op
[18:55] <phunyguy> wait, what?
[18:56] <phunyguy> and they don't know the rules? lol
[18:56] <AlanBell> lubotu3 is still looking at saucy packages
[18:56] <Pici> people mess up
[18:56] <phunyguy> was unaware.
[18:57] <IdleOne> hehe
[19:15] <rww> hihi
[19:16] <Pici> hallo
[19:16] <Pici> you missed all the fun
[19:17] <rww> Pici: I was on a Guest nick for the important bit :P
[19:20] <Pici> rww: was that to just get rid of an extra space
[19:20] <rww> no
[19:40] <k1l> do we have a !command for LTS to LTS upgrade waits for 14.04.1?
[19:41] <rww> not yet
[19:42] <k1l> !dowehavea14.04.1factoidyet
[19:47] <phunyguy> no.
[19:47] <phunyguy> I would do it but I do not drive the bot
[19:48] <Jordan_U> phunyguy: Make a suggestion. !factoidname is <reply> What you want the factoid to be here.
[19:48] <k1l> The LTS to LTS upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 will be opened when the 14.04.1 will be released on July 24th.
[19:48] <phunyguy> k
[19:48] <phunyguy> bah
[19:48] <k1l> thats a base to start
[19:48] <phunyguy> :)
[19:49] <rww> 13.10 -> 14.04 upgrades are already live, right?
[19:49] <k1l> yes
[19:49] <Pici> sort of
[19:49] <k1l> when the used mirrors are synced
[19:50] <Pici> theres some sort of infra issue causing the mirror syncs to be slower than normal
[19:50] <Pici> or something
[19:51] <phunyguy> !lts-upgrade is <reply> Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 direct upgrade will be available on July 24th with 14.04.1 point release.
[19:51] <rww> . !ltsupgrade is <reply> Ubuntu supports direct upgrades from one !LTS to the next. However, this is not enabled until the first point release of a new LTS to allow time for stability updates.
[19:51] <rww> and then phunyguy's info after that
[19:51] <phunyguy> too complex
[19:52] <rww> I like giving reasons :P
[19:52] <phunyguy> link to the mailing list announcement
[19:52] <phunyguy> :)
[19:52] <k1l> my first suggestion was "JUST BE PATIENT!!!!!111"
[19:52] <phunyguy> much lag.  wow.
[19:52] <k1l> but i think that is too obvious :)
[19:52] <Jordan_U> . !whyno12.04to14.04 is <reply> Because U need wait 14.04.1
[19:53] <phunyguy> . !nosoupforyou
[19:53] <k1l> . !YUnoLTSupgrade    :)
[19:54] <phunyguy> do we have one for !pointrelease ?
[20:15] <Unit193> Pici: The bitly link is suspect, he's copying from his borwser.
[20:15] <Unit193> And yes, his borwser. :P
[20:15] <Pici> Unit193: what link?
[20:15] <Unit193> [16:11:19] < ~Elliott18>  Here some videos. I hope you like them! http://bitly.com/1gAh6Jy
[20:49] <phunyguy> "The link you requested may contain inappropriate content, or even spam or malicious code that could be downloaded to your computer without your consent, or may be a forgery or imitation of another website, designed to trick users into sharing personal or financial information."
[20:49] <phunyguy> or continue at your own risk to ...hotxgirls.......
[20:50] <knome> Pici, if you please could unvoice people at -release
[20:51] <phunyguy> I can if need be
[20:51] <Pici> knome: I actually don't have enough rights there to do that.
[20:51] <knome> oh.
[20:51] <Pici> I'd need to ask for more from freenode
[20:52] <knome> Pici, -release, not -release-party
[20:52] <Pici> I know
[20:52] <phunyguy> oh whoops
[20:52] <phunyguy> that was me
[20:52] <phunyguy> misread
[20:53] <knome> Pici, oh.. i thought you were handling the voices before
[20:53] <Pici> I can voice and devoice, but not remove people from the access lists.
[20:53] <knome> oh...
[20:53] <knome> well i meant that.
[20:53] <knome> just devoice
[20:53] <Pici> there is a standing +V on ubuntu members and canonical employees
[20:54] <Unit193> 10    *!*@ubuntu/*           +V [modified 4 hours, 37 minutes, 17 seconds ago]
[20:54] <phunyguy> (yes, and quite a few were voiced in -release-party which is why I assumed that channel)
[20:54] <knome> aha, so i could ask for being voiced in -release? nice...
[20:54] <k1l> @mark #ubuntu ffffffffffffffff malware link
[20:54] <phunyguy> +V should just do it.
[20:54] <knome> Pici, hmm, +V, auto?
[20:55] <Pici> yes
[20:55] <phunyguy> :P
[20:55] <knome> right
[20:55] <Unit193> +v should mean you can use the voice and devoice commands.
[20:56] <knome> yep
[20:57] <knome> Pici, looks like you need to -V after all ;)
[20:57] <Pici> knome: cjwatson set that... and I'm about to go afk for a bit
[20:57] <knome> oki
[20:58] <knome> np, just get some decision made/action taken at some point


[08:11] <tjaalton> tseliot: what's the eta for getting 418 in disco?
[08:39] <tseliot> tjaalton: I'll have it in a PPA this week. As for the archive, probably next week
[08:40] <tjaalton> ok, cool
[08:40] <tjaalton> someone was asking me about it


[10:46] <doko> ScottK, dh-python seems to be stuck in proposed
[10:48] <cjwatson> doko: I'm working on that right now
[10:48] <cjwatson> doko: Also all the other things with unsatisfiable Depends: foo:any
[10:48] <cjwatson> Just preparing a precise-amd64 chroot so I can build something to sync to lillypilly to test
[10:57] <cjwatson> doko: Any plans to fix the python2.7 and python3.3 autopkgtests?
[11:06] <doko> cjwatson, ahh, forgot about these ... maybe not today, but tomorrow
[11:10] <cjwatson> Thanks
[13:12]  * cjwatson curses the sheer number of places that need to be fixed for :any in britney
[13:33] <tumbleweed> :/
[13:35] <cjwatson> Oh, this looks betetr
[13:35] <cjwatson> *better
[13:35] <cjwatson>
Maintainer: Debian Python Modules Team
[13:35] <cjwatson> -
alembic/i386 unsatisfiable Depends: python:any (>= 2.7.1-0ubuntu2)
[13:35] <cjwatson>
Valid candidate
[13:56] <barry> any chance someone could free up nose2 from the new queue?  it was uploaded before ff but it's been sitting in new for a while now and i'd love to get this into saucy
[14:05] <cjwatson> I think I've unwedged :any dependencies now, after way more effort than that should have been.  Monitoring proposed-migration ...
[14:22] <cjwatson>  finish: [alembic,avahi,cherrypy3,dh-python,frog,gnucash,gourmet,graphviz,ibus-hangul,ibus-xkbc,cobbler,meld,python-cliff,python-django,python-drizzle,python-pip,python-virtualenv,python-whoosh,pywapi,qtpim-opensource-src,sabnzbdplus,schooltool,schooltool.lyceum.journal,schooltool.gradebook,schooltool.cando,terminator,ubuntu-touch-meta,xpra]
[14:22] <cjwatson> there we go, much better
[14:38] <jokerdino> any archive admin feeling charitable enough to take a look at this FFe? bug 1226059
[14:38] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1226059 in unity-tweak-tool (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please sync unity-tweak-tool 0.0.5 from upstream git" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226059
[14:40] <cjwatson> s/archive admin/release team member/
[14:40] <smartboyhw> jokerdino, "The new version is focused on bug fixes only and has no new features." I'm not sure if that requires a FFe.
[14:40] <cjwatson> if the reporter wants release team attention then they should subscribe ~ubuntu-release ...
[14:40] <jokerdino> cjwatson: aw, oops
[14:41] <jokerdino> i was looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
[14:42] <Laney> you want
[14:42] <Laney> !ffe
[14:42] <ubot2`> Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
[14:44] <jokerdino> right. So I unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors and subscribe ubuntu-release then?
[14:53] <stgraber> ah, I was wondering why terminator only migrated a few minutes ago, but looking at the scrollback completely explains it :) thanks cjwatson
[15:00] <sgran> hi all
[15:00] <jokerdino> i ..uh am confused a little. Scott says it is not a FFe.  It is of course not a FFe-.-
[15:01] <sgran> I'm less familiar with what is ok in ubuntu for things like -updates or -proposed for LTS, so I just wanted to ask
[15:01] <jokerdino> I pretty much did the same thing for syncing 0.0.4 last cycle.. :/
[15:02] <Laney> The Fs in FFe stand for Feature Freeze; you don't need an exception for updates which only contain bug fixes
[15:02] <Laney> so go straight to ubuntu-sponsors in that case
[15:02] <sgran> open-iscsi in precise has a hack to make it not start on hosts with / on iscsi, since it gets it wrong
[15:02] <sgran> this makes it impossible to run diskless compute nodes with openstack
[15:02] <sgran> (which just so happens to be what I'm doing at work ...)
[15:03] <sgran> a newer version does the right thing, the hack is removed, and all is well with the world
[15:03] <jokerdino> Laney: can i reset the bug status then? Scott set it to invalid.
[15:03] <sgran> I'm just curious if there is an avenue for the newer version to make it into precise, in some description
[15:04] <tumbleweed> sgran: how complex is the patch that does the right thing?
[15:04] <sgran> the difference between the version that is in precise and the version that works is quite large
[15:05] <sgran> I have not even tried to track down a single patch that fixes the issues in precise - there was lots of upstream work on this area in the meantime
[15:05] <sgran> in debian, I would start working with the maintainer to put this in backports, as it's too invasive for stable proper
[15:05] <sgran> I don't know what the options are in ubuntu
[15:05] <tumbleweed> we have backports too, which is appropriate for new versions like this
[15:06] <Laney> backports would be an option
[15:06] <Laney> jokerdino: sure, do that
[15:06] <sgran> great, how would I go about starting that ball rolling?
[15:06] <Laney> !backports
[15:06] <ubot2`> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
[15:07] <sgran> thanks
[15:07] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports → tl;dr: apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools; requestbackport -d precise -s <whatever> open-iscsi
[15:07] <Laney> sgran: ↑
[15:08] <sgran> Laney: perfect, thanks
[15:08] <Laney> np
[17:30] <jbicha> oh
[17:31] <jbicha> that gnome-disk-utility upload was intended for a ppa so gilir could test it first
[17:37] <jbicha> ScottK: if you're here I assume you want to kill it since the ffe wasn't approved yet
[17:40] <jbicha> ooh, it failed to build anyway, hmm
[19:08] <ScottK> jbicha: It's gone.
[21:34] <Noskcaj> My latest update has installed the ubuntu touch web browser. I'm on xubuntu 13.10 amd64.
[21:34] <Noskcaj> I have since installed it and it's dependencies
[21:37] <skellat> cjwatson: Might Noskcaj have encountered click packages accidentally being dragged in with his scenario?
[21:37] <Noskcaj> Also, will i need an FFe to merge the latest audacity 2.0.3-1 to 2.0.4-1ubuntu1? I've already prepared the branch
[21:47] <cjwatson> skellat: Not possible
[21:47] <cjwatson> skellat: (a) apt doesn't know about click packages so can never install them; (b) the Ubuntu Touch web browser is not currently being shipped on touch devices as a click package anyway
[21:54] <stgraber> that reminds me I need to figure out how system-image and ubuntu-system-settings somehow got into the Edubuntu DVD image


[04:59] <bukai> Riddell: ping
[04:59] <bukai> sgclark: ping
[05:15] <keithzg_> Should I actually be reporting bugs in Plasma5 if I'm seeing them from the kubuntu next PPA, and if so should it be upstream, or?
[05:43] <valorie> keithzg_: yes, please
[05:43] <valorie> in bko
[07:11] <soee> good morning
[08:01] <shadeslayer> morning
[08:10] <soee> hiho
[08:23] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:59] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: Ping.. good morning
[08:59] <Sick_Rimmit> Just trying export KWIN_USE_BUFFER_AGE=0; kwin --replace &"
[09:00] <Sick_Rimmit> kwin appears not to be installed on Plasma5, does that sound correct /
[09:00] <Sick_Rimmit> ?
[09:00] <valorie> Sick_Rimmit: I got the same result
[09:01] <Sick_Rimmit> Hi Valorie
[09:01] <valorie> hi
[09:01] <Sick_Rimmit> Ah, yes
[09:01] <Sick_Rimmit> I don't want to try installing kwin however, as I suspect it will break stuff
[09:01] <valorie> exactly
[09:02] <Sick_Rimmit> I think i'll leave this one for further advice from the Ninjas
[10:00] <bukai> Riddell: ping
[10:18] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: oh it's kwin_x11
[10:19] <Riddell> "Jussi Schultink (jussi01) renewed their own membership in the Kubuntu Members" yay jussi still loves us!
[10:22] <Riddell> usability problem on downloading? https://paste.kde.org/pfs44lm0g
[10:33] <soee> ui
[10:37] <Riddell> hi soee
[10:55] <soee> Riddell: so iv seen that qt 5.4 is released and you plan to use it with plasma 5.2 ?
[11:04] <Riddell> soee: yeah I think so
[11:04] <soee> cool :)
[11:18]  * Riddell spots stable/applications/14.12.0/src/
[11:18] <Riddell> !ninjas | applications 14.12.0
[11:53] <_Groo_> Riddell: whats the problem with silly nicknames? :D
[11:54] <_Groo_> Riddell: i felt offended :P we are a minority you know!
[12:40] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: Ah, been away. OK Thanks will try kwin_x11
[12:41] <Sick_Rimmit> Some feedback on freezing. You can test this oddly using Google Hangouts. It seems that the video feed, makes what ever is causing the problem happen much more frequently, like every 2 to 3 minutes
[12:41] <Riddell> hmm, interesting
[12:42] <Sick_Rimmit> So I will test this some more, I had a Hangout call earlier which was why I was trying to set the param.
[12:42] <Sick_Rimmit> I will try again on the next one ;-)
[12:43] <Sick_Rimmit> valorie: Ping -> did you see the note about kwin_x11 ^
[12:44] <Sick_Rimmit> So command to try should be
[12:44] <Sick_Rimmit> export KWIN_USE_BUFFER_AGE=0; kwin_X11 --replace &"
[12:52] <Riddell> Sick_Rimmit: lower-case x
[12:58] <bukai> Riddell: Hi
[12:58] <Riddell> hi bukai
[12:58] <bukai> Riddell: Did you get my mail?
[12:59] <Riddell> bukai: don't think so, which one?
[13:02] <bukai_> Riddell: Can I generate a new private key to access the server?
[13:02] <Riddell> bukai_: the web server? what happaned to your last one?
[13:03] <bukai_> Riddell: I had an accident and my laptop os in 2 piece now, I am using a college desktop for now
[13:04] <bukai_> Riddell: *I had an accident and my laptop is in 2 piece now, I am using a college desktop for now
[13:04] <Riddell> erk
[13:04] <Riddell> well if you can generate a key in a secure place then update your launchpad account and ping me to take it from there
[13:06] <bukai_> Riddell: ok , I will do it once I fix mine because our college desktop has windows! :(
[13:06] <bukai_> Riddell: This week I am planning to rather convert the theme to WordPress
[13:08] <Riddell> bukai_: great :)
[13:08] <Sick_Rimmit> Riddell: 10-4 thanks - lower case
[13:13] <Riddell> shadeslayer: https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/ubuntu/kde-extra/+packages ?
[13:13] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions
[13:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ah, for the bluez 5 transition?
[13:15] <shadeslayer> yep
[13:15] <Riddell> that's still the kde4 version
[13:15] <Riddell> I'm wondering if there is a kf5 version anywhere
[13:16] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ask nowrep
[13:16] <shadeslayer> in #solid
[13:17] <Riddell> mm David Rosca
[13:19] <soee> hey im planing to buy ssd for my laptop, is there any point on geting > than 128 GB ?
[13:19] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[13:20] <soee> hey BluesKaj
[13:20] <BluesKaj> hi soee
[13:23] <snele> Sick_Rimmit: valorie: on plasma5, kwin process is renamed to kwin_x11 so it would be kwin_x11 --replace
[13:25] <snele> heh I think I am way too late with that advice :)
[13:38] <kranzer> Riddell: hello, are you here?
[13:39] <Riddell> hi kranzer
[13:39] <kranzer> Riddell: I've done my task yesterday, but I don't know what to attach in melange
[13:44] <Riddell> kranzer: what have you done?
[13:45] <kranzer> Riddell: size of icons
[13:47] <Riddell> kranzer: where?
[13:47] <kranzer> Riddell: calligra
[13:49] <Riddell> kranzer: right but where are they?
[13:50] <kranzer> Riddell: on my hdd )
[13:50] <kranzer> Riddell: I don't know how to attach my work
[13:51] <kranzer> Riddell: and I'm not sure if it is right
[13:51] <Riddell> kranzer: tar up the directory and put it on a web server somewhere? (google drive or dropbox maybe)
[13:51] <kranzer> okay
[13:56] <kranzer> Riddell: two tars https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx5QnsK1RhfbdXItczFQSHU2ekE/ https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx5QnsK1RhfbdFRPM0hsa2I1cEE/
[13:57] <kranzer> Riddell: could you take a look?
[13:58]  * Riddell looks
[14:13] <Sick_Rimmit> snele: Hey, just way for lunch, thank you for that pointer :-)
[14:13] <Riddell> kranzer: getting distracted, will get onto shortly
[14:14] <kranzer> Riddell: okay
[14:15] <snele> Sick_Rimmit: no problem :) blog post about that change: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/kwin-is-no-more/
[14:21] <Riddell> kranzer: looking at application-x-vnd.kde.kplato.work.png the whole image has been resized so the aspect ratio is now all wonky, it needs the canvas resized without the image being changed
[14:24] <kranzer> Riddell: thank you
[14:30] <Riddell> dantti_laptop: you happy if we move print-manager into plasma ? Jan is also all for it
[14:39] <jstaniek> hello, any ideas how to trigger update of Calligra for Kubuntu? it's over week after 2.8.7 release. https://userbase.kde.org/Calligra/Download#Kubuntu
[14:39]  * jstaniek is considering marking Linux Mint as unsupported as well as who-knows what distros
[14:40] <soee> isnt there some task for students to do this ?
[14:41] <soee> yes, http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/view/google/gci2014/4540768173686784
[14:45] <Riddell> jstaniek: it's done but it's blocked from going into release due to automated QA not working https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calligra/1:2.8.7-0ubuntu1
[14:45] <Riddell> that's the ubuntu automated QA
[14:45] <Riddell> jstaniek: but yes it could also do with an update for 14.10
[14:45] <jstaniek> Riddell: thx a lot
[14:45] <Riddell> maybe I'll make that a google code in tawsk too
[14:46] <jstaniek> we're in situation that even slightly newer version is a big difference
[14:50] <kranzer> Riddell: I've done the main part of work, now I'm going to do some maths, bye
[14:51] <Pali> Riddell: ping, I want to remind my PPA
[15:13] <jmux> Riddell: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2014-December/065207.html
[15:15] <Riddell> jmux: scary!
[15:16] <Riddell> jmux: all I did was set up the build system stuff by renaming the plugin to kde5
[15:16] <Riddell> jmux: actually porting it from qt4 to qt5 is still to do and I expect to be far more tricky
[15:16] <Riddell> and then yeah, all the stuff you mention in the e-mail
[15:17] <Riddell> Pali: thanks, one day soon..
[15:17] <jmux> Riddell: ah - ok. Guess the port is the easy stuff :-)
[15:18] <Riddell> jmux: but breeze icons first, that should be do-able
[15:19] <Riddell> https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/LibreOffice_Breeze if you haven't seen it
[15:20] <jmux> I looked at it a few days after the hackfest
[15:20] <Riddell> yeah thought so, the google code in students are adding bits to it
[15:28] <Riddell> jmux: I also suggested they just port libreoffice to Qt but they didn't seem too keen on that for some reason
[15:29] <jmux> Riddell: who is "they"?
[15:31] <Riddell> jmux: libreoffice dudes in munich, it wasn't an entirely serious suggestion
[15:37] <jmux> Riddell: Well the KDE4 backend was broken for a long time until we wanted to use it and I had to fix it; I'm basically the only one interested in it...
[15:37] <Riddell> jmux: I think only one interested and brave enough to touch it
[15:37] <jmux> And the gtk backend has simply more features like gvfs integration
[16:52] <kranzer> Riddell: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx5QnsK1RhfbazZOdmFZZV82QUU/   https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx5QnsK1RhfbRV9vOE1mdlg4ZTQ/
[16:52] <kranzer> Riddell: done, I think ;)
[18:17] <Riddell> kranzer: looking good, can you rename them so they use the same names as in the source code?
[18:18] <Riddell> apt-get source calligra  will get your the source code
[18:18] <kranzer> I have sources
[18:19] <kranzer> Riddell: and i was just changing files
[18:20] <kranzer> so, new files have the names that the old had
[18:21] <Riddell> you have hicolor/128x128/actions/template_empty.png
[18:22] <Riddell> I'm after ./plan/workpackage/templates/Simple/hi128-action-template_empty.png
[18:22]  * Riddell out
[18:26] <kranzer> Riddell: I don't understand ;(
[18:29] <kranzer> Riddell: ahhh understand
[18:38] <_Groo_> guys, in kf5, do we have any layout option besides desktop in desktop settings?
[18:38] <_Groo_> kde4 used to have a folder view , a netbook view etc etc
[18:38] <_Groo_> am i missing something or it wasnt ported yet?
[18:40] <yofel> netbook definitely isn't there, folder view dunno
[18:40]  * yofel is just trying to upgrade to vivid
[18:42] <sgclark> I have folder and desktop
[18:42] <kranzer> Riddell: done https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx5QnsK1RhfbNjRYbmNLQ0ZPT28/
[18:52] <_Groo_> guysi reached my 2gb quota of my ppa, how do i remove old builds? can i just use the delete option or i need a special recipe?
[18:54] <yofel> just use the delete-packages page, will take a couple hours until the space is cleaned up though
[18:55] <_Groo_> yofel: whats the url?
[18:56] <yofel> same as +packages, just +delete-packages
[18:56] <yofel> there's also a button on the ppa page
[18:57] <_Groo_> the thing is
[18:57] <_Groo_> https://launchpad.net/~paulo-miguel-dias/+archive/ubuntu/mesa/+delete-packages
[18:57] <_Groo_> yeah its the same i use
[18:57] <yofel> right?
[18:57] <_Groo_> but it doesnt allow me or show me the superseeded packages
[18:57] <_Groo_> or the failed builds
[18:57] <_Groo_> which are plenty
[18:58] <yofel> failed builds will only have sources, no binaries, and superseded packages get auto-cleaned
[18:58] <yofel> unless the new source is missing a binary
[19:01] <_Groo_> yofel, is there any way to have a little bigger ppa?
[19:01] <yofel> yes, ask the admins (i.e. create a launchpad question asking for more space)
[19:33] <dantti_laptop> Riddell: not happy :P
[19:34] <yofel> why not? ^^
[19:35] <dantti_laptop> well I was about to completely drop support for plasma for it
[19:36] <dantti_laptop> but due to my lack of time I've been thinking on dropping maintainance for all my projects and probably fork them all later
[19:37] <dantti_laptop> yofel: reason for the why being me not liking plasma at all
[19:37] <yofel> design or functionality?
[19:38] <dantti_laptop> more of the former
[19:39] <dantti_laptop> i tried to setup my own idea of a shell but I really need to focus on other stuff right now
[19:39] <yofel> k
[19:39] <dantti_laptop> so maybe release what I've been doing not to block developmet is a nicer thing to do...
[19:53] <dantti_laptop> Riddell: for the bug you reported install system-config-printer
[19:54] <dantti_laptop> iirc I asked Debian packagers to fix this dependency but it seems that you forgot to do the same
[19:55] <yofel> ok, survived the vivid upgrade, now lets see how much of the UI-Hugeness of plasma5 I can exorcise
[21:36] <soee> hho


[00:00] <Tetsuo55> i just realised it happens all the time
[00:00] <Tetsuo55> theres a bunch of bugs that are not listed, but that i am subscribed too
[00:01] <Tetsuo55> in fact, it looks like its limited to only bugs i reported myself, although i did have one that got closed yesterday, that was reported by someone else\
[00:02] <Tetsuo55> anyway, hope someone will respond there, sleep now
[00:02] <Tetsuo55> nite
[03:42] <RedSingularity> Quick question.....can I remove a package from a bug?
[03:49] <hggdh> usually no. Can set it invalid, though
[05:54] <geohacker> hi. I upgraded to Meerkat this morning. and the system freezes for a second or two. The CPU graph stays still. mouse pointer doesn't move. nothing happens. but it gets back to normal after 2-3 seconds. what could be wrong?
[06:08] <RedSingularity> If anyone in here works with transmission a lot please send a message my way.  I have a bug that I am having trouble with.  The user is getting an interesting message when shutting down transmission and I have a feeling this may lead to a solution if someone knows what it means.  Its a Glib-GObject-warning.  bug 655024  Thanks guys :)
[06:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 655024 in transmission (Ubuntu) "Using higher cpu usage (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655024
[08:23]  * RedSingularity is away: Away at the moment, be back soon.
[08:24] <maco> !away > RedSingularity
[08:24] <ubot2> RedSingularity, please see my private message
[09:35] <nigelb> oh, the bug squad pages are goingg to need a lot of rework with the new theme :/
[15:27]  * penguin42 yawns
[15:32] <Gigacore> AbhiJit: hey!
[15:32] <AbhiJit> hello Gigacore
[15:33] <Gigacore> AbhiJit: sup? just one day to go and I am not able to contain my excitement :P
[15:33] <AbhiJit> Gigacore, not one day
[15:33] <AbhiJit> its some hours!!!
[15:33] <AbhiJit> :P
[15:33] <Gigacore> less than
[15:33] <Gigacore> lol
[15:33] <Gigacore> :D
[15:35] <Gigacore> I am waiting for my mentor to start teaching me how to triage bugs.. I just gone through some documents though..
[15:51] <penguin42> anyone any good with internationalisation stuff?
[15:52] <penguin42> bug 657052 seems to be a 'bad flagvector' affecting multiple apps for that user, and as far as I can tell that's some i18n thing
[15:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657052 in gedit (Ubuntu) "error when i save a file (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657052
[18:13] <yofel> we won't have a 'Report a problem' menu enty for apport anymore in the future right?
[18:28] <kklimonda> yofel: hmm, it's getting disabled around RC release.
[20:01] <njin> hello to all, is called update manager in kubuntu ?
[20:42] <penguin42> heck I wish launchpad wouldn't send a mail for every damn file attached when someone does an apport-collect
[20:51] <yofel> njin: kubuntu uses kpackagekit for updates IIRC
[21:36] <RedSingularity> Anyone here have experience with Transmission?  I am stumped on this bug.  bug 655024
[21:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 655024 in transmission (Ubuntu) "Using higher cpu usage (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655024
[22:22] <crimsonmane_> hello all. #ubuntu sent me here for a bug report with Wine & World of Warcraft ...
[22:25] <RedSingularity> crimsonmane_ have you filed the report in Launchpad?
[22:27] <crimsonmane_> negative. hang on am in PM with someone who says my issue is a known issue. he's guiding me through something atm.
[22:35] <crimsonmane_> http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23323 can someone assist me with this please?
[22:35] <ubot2> bugs.winehq.org bug 23323 in -unknown "World of Warcraft crashes upon login after 3.3.5 patch. [NOT WINE BUG]" [Normal,New]
[22:43] <xteejx> Evening all...wow not many on! Used to be LOADS!
[22:43] <xteejx> Anyone able to renew my membership in BugControl?
[22:44] <xteejx> Oh..also, I'm on Maverick RC and have the LPGM scripts, but there are no stock replies like there normally was...any ideas guys?
[22:49] <xteejx> No-one awake?
[22:56] <yofel> crimsonmane_: which ubuntu release are you running?
[22:57] <yofel> hey xteejx
[23:05] <yofel> xteejx: bug 654658 should be about the no responses, the xml file has '</comment>' twice at one place
[23:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 654658 in launchpad-gm-scripts "no canned responses downloaded from xml file (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654658
[23:06] <yofel> bdmurray: it seems something went wrong when you merged my branch back then.. My branch is fine, but maybe you added a second </comment> by mistake
[23:06] <xteejx> yofel: Hey yofel :)
[23:07] <xteejx> bdmurray isn't in the room afai see, lucky if there's 50 people
[23:07] <yofel> even firefox errors out when trying to open it http://people.canonical.com/~brian/greasemonkey/bugsquad-replies.xml
[23:07] <yofel> xteejx: he is here, and I see 117 users
[23:07] <yofel> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-qa/canonical-qa-tracking/main/annotate/head%3A/gm-xml-files/bugsquad-replies.xml#L194
[23:07] <xteejx> Oh fgs, another empathy bug?
[23:10] <xteejx> Hmm relogging doesn't make a difference
[23:12] <yofel> crimsonmane_: which ubuntu release are you running? the bug says it's fixed in maverick, which needs a workaround described in comment 184
[23:14] <yofel> crimsonmane_: also, according to comment 183 this should be fixed in lucid too
[23:16] <xteejx> bdmurray, pedro: Is it poss to reinstate/renew my BugControl privileges please (I realise I've been away a couple of months but am back) :)
[23:21] <charlie-tca> Seems like it is harder to get of hold of those who need to make things happen these days
[23:21] <xteejx> lol So it seems
[23:21] <xteejx> For some reason I can't even see them in this room, might install xchat
[23:21] <crimsonmane_> yofel:  i'm using maverick
[23:22] <crimsonmane_> wine version 1.2
[23:22] <crimsonmane_> how can i double check my version of wine?
[23:22] <yofel> crimsonmane_: then you're probably hit by the ptrace restriction, you can disable it in /etc/sysctl.d/10-ptrace.conf if you want
[23:23] <crimsonmane_> yofel can you please walk me through this?
[23:23] <crimsonmane_> the file opened but it was 100% just a comment file with no commands
[23:24] <yofel> crimsonmane_: open a terminal, or press alt+f2 for the run dialog, run 'gksudo gedit /etc/sysctl.d/10-ptrace.conf' without the quotes and change the '1' in the last line into a '0'
[23:24] <yofel> then reboot
[23:26] <crimsonmane_> thank you sir. rebooting now.
[23:27] <xteejx> yofel: How can I temporarily fix the LPGM for myself, I assume the extension just downloads that xml file, but to where?
[23:28] <yofel> xteejx: IIRC they get integrated into ~/.mozilla/firefox/<profile>/prefs.js so I don't think you can just create them yourself
[23:29] <xteejx> Damn :( Ok no worries, I'll wait til it's fixed then
[23:33] <yofel> bdmurray: https://code.launchpad.net/~yofel/canonical-qa-tracking/lp-654658/+merge/38069
[23:41] <crimsonmane> well that worked. game loads and plays as expected. it freezes on exit tho.


[19:08] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:16] <olly> morning
[19:23] <hads> morning
[21:52] <mwhudson> morning