[10:29] <JackFrost> sarnold: Hope I didn't throw y'all off on CVE-2019-5882.
[11:04] <sivang> re all
[11:04] <JackFrost> Howdy.
[11:05] <sivang> hey JackFrost , I watched some videos from Canonical regarding snappy further, do you happen to know what's the offering about snappy in the cloud about?
[11:05] <JackFrost> Nope, sorry.
[11:10]  * sivang wonders, if he's using Ubuntu 18.10 or Digital Ocean or AWS, is he using snappy Ubuntu Core?
[11:27]  * sivang is also concerend that if there's no central authority to distribute apps and packages (is there a qa process of any sorts?) the malware issue as is with other similar democratic software distribution platforms; https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/05/ubuntu-snap-malware
[22:04] <mymedia> During the past year, only three bugs against Ubuntu backports project were closed. Any idea why so few?
[22:04] <mymedia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubp/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&orderby=-date_last_updated&start=0
[22:05] <tsimonq2> teward: ^
[22:06] <teward> Laney: ^ you're best equipped to answer htat
[22:10] <teward> tsimonq2: Laney's probably the better PoC for Backports related questions right now


[18:58] <ddstreet> o/
[18:58] <sil2100> o/
[18:59] <slashd> o/
[19:00] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> so.. I'm +1 in not opening the meeting as our agenda is empty and there is nothing to be discussed (I suppose).
[19:03] <ddstreet> sounds good to me!
[19:03] <sil2100> Good here as well o/
[19:03] <sil2100> Let's stick around though in case someone from the community has questions
[19:04] <slashd> sgtm
[19:09] <teward> *waves*
[19:09] <teward> there's only a few things of 'discussion' that don't need a meeting :p
[19:09] <teward> more or less, oneoffs
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> teward: about requests coming from lubuntu team
[19:12] <teward> rafaeldtinoco: yep.
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> lets do it here so its public
[19:12] <teward> 👍
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> so, last time we did something similar ... was with openstack
[19:12] <teward> it's also in their devel channel :P
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> iirc, last application we had for the openstack packageset
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> I asked the person to map everything they needed there
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> and things we should remove from the set
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> and we did this through an email copying dmb
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> (list of packages, I would reply asking my doubts, etc)
[19:13] <teward> right
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> we could go down that road for lubuntu
[19:14] <teward> probably should
[19:14] <teward> they have a phab task for things that need to be added to the packageset...
[19:14] <teward> https://phab.lubuntu.me/T197  (not sure if this is fully visible to nonloggedins there)
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> and I would ask for them to review those that could also be removed
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> let me see
[19:14] <teward> that's the NEW items
[19:14] <teward> lxqt-archiver's on the list but i already handled that this morning ;)
[19:14] <teward> it doesn't discuss items to drop
[19:15] <rafaeldtinoco> gotcha
[19:15] <rafaeldtinoco> could u ask them then, to email dmb with a formal request with the changes they would like to have ?
[19:15] <rafaeldtinoco> and pay attention for my doubts (when updating the pkgset ?)
[19:16] <teward> yep
[19:16] <teward> i'm going to also make a core task in their Phab for it
[19:16] <teward> so they can audit
[19:16] <teward> (that's their tracker)
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/hirsute/
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> if they want to compare with other existing sets
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> (sometimes to "let them handle instead of us" approach)
[19:24] <teward> i was looking for that link but couldn't find it thanks.
[19:24] <teward> i'll provide that to them,
[19:24] <teward> and created tasks for them to review
[19:28] <teward> rafaeldtinoco: once we have the complete audit we'll go poking.  There seems to be a lot of cruft in their packageset they don't want/need upload for so :P
[19:28] <teward> i expect there to be a large set of tweaks coming :p
[19:29] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco did you have a chance to add docs around the dmb tooling?
[19:29] <ddstreet> how to use it, how it uses the source seeds to generate packagesets...what the seed<->packageset relationship is...?
[19:46] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: nope
[19:47] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: the packageset update (automatic, from the seeds) is just a makefile now... but the decisions the 2 scripts (pkgset-report/pkgset-push) do (and why) is not documented
[19:48] <rafaeldtinoco> Im updating the sets from the seeds automatically from time to time (and before freezes) for now.. but the requests (openstack / lubuntu) were for non-automatic updates
[19:51] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco i updated the ubuntu-dekstop packageset to add some packages, per an email to devel-permissions; i wasn't sure if ubuntu-desktop is generated from a seed, though
[19:52] <rafaeldtinoco> there are some hard coded stuff for the desktop sets.. check git.launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+git/packageset
[19:52] <rafaeldtinoco> pkgset-report.py
[19:54] <rafaeldtinoco> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YYaxmlIs/
[19:56] <rafaeldtinoco> so no overrides are made to the default pkgs ubuntu-desktop plays with.. but I would guess a big rework could be made in all those scripts (like previously discussed) to better find deps and associate them to the sets (And to do seed<->set decisions)
[19:56] <rafaeldtinoco> only problem is time to justify the work :(


[16:21] <lycan_s> Merry Chritsmas xD Thanks you for to develop this distro
[19:20] <LJSeinfeld> can anyone help me troubleshoot a custom upstart job?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/14208212/    It should be fairly simple, but I'm missing something.. 😞
[19:21] <redwolf> LJSeinfeld, ask for wxl in a few hours (it's Christmas! 😃)
[19:21] <LJSeinfeld> wxl?
[19:22] <LJSeinfeld> ah-- I see the name in the list
[19:22] <LJSeinfeld> Merry X-Mas, BTW.
[19:27] <redwolf> :)
[19:27] <redwolf> yes, his bouncer is inactive for now
[20:41] <SebastianTCL> lubuntu + calm window manager = greatness


[03:37] <twb> Is "pre-start exec" allowed (instead of "pre-start script")?
[03:38] <twb> Also: WTF just happened: stop gitit ==> stop: Method "Get" with signature "ss" on interface "org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties" doesn't exist
[03:38] <JanC> twb: yes
[03:39] <JanC> an no clue about the DBus error  ;)
[03:39] <JanC> and *
[03:39] <twb> OK, thanks
[03:39] <twb> I think it was pissed because I said "script end" instead of "end script"
[03:41] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/106276/
[03:41] <twb> Though strangely, it isn't writing anything to the logfile now I rotated it
[03:43] <JanC> hm, how does it log?
[03:43] <twb> not via syslog(3)
[03:43] <twb> I think it opens it directly
[03:45] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/106277/
[03:45] <twb> This is on lucid, btw
[03:46] <JanC> hm, and with savelog -p the permissions should be right too, I suppose
[03:47] <twb> Hmm, even if I run gitit as root, it doesn't write to that file
[03:48] <twb> Strace can see it opening the log, though
[03:48] <twb> open("/var/log/gitit.log", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_NOCTTY|O_APPEND|O_NONBLOCK, 0666) = 7
[03:49] <JanC> is it supposed to write anything in absence of errors?
[03:50] <twb> Ah, I think the original 271 bytes were logs of *init*
[03:50] <twb> i.e. subsequent boots don't print anything, even for GETs
[03:57] <twb> I give up.
[03:57] <twb> BTW, do you know how to not have the extra su process hanging around?
[03:57] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/106278/
[04:19] <JanC> yes, but not sure if upstart will like that  ;)
[04:20] <twb> Tell me and I'll check
[04:20] <twb> Also re logging, it was because 'log-level: WARNING' is the default.
[04:22] <JanC> basically, su is waiting for the process it starts to end
[04:23] <twb> Why doesn't it do a forkless exec of sh -c?
[04:31] <twb> I'd use sudo instead, but I'd prefer to avoid the syslog noise from sudo
[04:46] <JanC> you can run gitit in the background
[04:47] <JanC> but upstart might not like that  ;)
[04:47] <twb> Yeah, obviously that's no good
[04:50] <JanC> I doubt the su process does any harm to your system anyway  ;)
[04:50] <twb> Sure, it's just ugly
[15:47] <anchepiece> hi all, does anyone know where the upstart/initctl status is saved? like the association between the daemon and the pid.  i have a incorrectly stopped init that is now giving the 'start/killed' with a non-existant pid
[15:47] <anchepiece> i was hoping to clear the config somewhere
[16:08] <JanC> it's "saved" in memory only
[16:15] <JanC> http://heh.fi/tmp/workaround-upstart-snafu might be useful
[16:31] <SpamapS> anchepiece: just stop the job ..
[16:33] <SpamapS> Oh I see.. can't kill the pid that doesn't exist. Interesting.
[16:44] <SpamapS> JanC: where did that workaround-upstart-snafu script come from btw?
[16:45] <JanC> SpamapS: ion pointed to it a couple of days ago
[16:49] <SpamapS> Seems like init would know about any pids it was tracking dying.
[16:51] <JanC_> grrr, why does my ISP insist on 36-hourly disconnects...  :-(
[16:51] <JanC_> SpamapS: ion pointed to it a couple of days ago
[16:51] <JanC_> I guess it's his script
[16:52] <JanC> maybe it was tracking the wrong pid though?
[18:29] <anchepiece> SpamapS: i cant find that script online anymore
[18:29] <anchepiece> have a copy
[18:29] <anchepiece> ?
[18:32] <JanC> anchepiece: if you mean the snafu script, it's still there?
[18:32] <anchepiece> the url is 404
[18:33] <JanC> not from here...
[18:33] <JanC> you in some place where internet is filtered?
[18:33] <anchepiece> ah its back!
[18:33] <anchepiece> thanks
[18:37] <anchepiece> well it just spawns infinit threads
[18:37] <SpamapS> JanC: my point is that even if it was tracking the wrong pid.. if the pid it is tracking dies.. it will know and respawn or not ..
[18:37] <anchepiece> i think ill wait till a reboot and leave the renamed daemon
[18:38] <SpamapS> anchepiece: so status foo shows a pid that doesn't exist?
[18:38] <SpamapS> anchepiece: or status foo shows infinite pids ?
[18:38] <JanC> SpamapS: it won't (always) respawn infinitely though
[18:38] <anchepiece> status foo shows a pid that doesdnt exist
[18:38] <SpamapS> JanC: right, I'm more saying that I can't see a situation where upstart shows a pid that is dead in status.
[18:39] <anchepiece> the workaround-snafu prints out an increasing number (new pids?)
[18:39] <SpamapS> seems like a bug somewhere.
[18:39] <SpamapS> that workaround-snafu may take forever on a system that uses pseudo random pids.
[18:39] <JanC> I've never seen it happen myself
[18:39] <anchepiece> the bug was my fault (putting an expect fork when there shouldnt have been, then prematurely ctrl-c killing the stop command when it stalled)
[18:40] <anchepiece> no it increments
[18:40] <JanC> SpamapS: yeah, in theory it can as well take 100 years or something  ;)
[18:41] <anchepiece> ie: start/killed, process 13790 ./workaround-upstart-snafu 13790  prints out the next pid available past 13790 like 22xxx then counts up as it creates new pids
[18:41] <SpamapS> interesting
[18:41] <anchepiece> going to leave it running just to see what happens
[18:42] <anchepiece> ok it dropped back to 1000s
[18:42] <anchepiece> now i understand how it works
[18:43] <JanC> it tries until a process with that PID exists
[18:43] <JanC> then we hope upstart gets unconfused  ;)
[18:44] <anchepiece> it did, but it respawned the old conf
[18:44] <JanC> it's normally used for a slightly different issue though
[18:44] <anchepiece> nowe stop is hung
[18:47] <anchepiece> i think this tool will work
[18:47] <JanC> upstart needs a built-in "unbreak" command I guess  ;)
[18:47] <anchepiece> well maybe a non-ruby dependant version of the script will do
[18:47] <JanC> that should be easy enough
[18:48] <JanC> it just forks until a process has the requested PID
[18:49] <SpamapS> JanC: the issue is that upstart can only do anything if a process's parent pid is 1.. it does that by either keeping it in the foreground, or ptrace attaching.. so somewhere, it detached from the process without making sure it was dead. That seems to be the bug.
[18:50] <anchepiece> it worked -> status: Unknown job:
[18:50] <anchepiece> thanks for help
[18:51] <SpamapS> anchepiece: glad its resolved for you.. but thats pretty ugly.. forking through the whole pid namespace. :-P
[18:51] <SpamapS> err.. pid space..
[18:52] <JanC> SpamapS: that's why it's called a workaround  ;)
[18:52] <anchepiece> and now respawning on a crash is working perfectly
[18:53] <anchepiece> i vote to add that script or a bash variant to the release package
[18:54] <JanC> fixing the bug would be better  ;)
[18:54] <anchepiece> a long-term state of stopped/killed with a pid may be a clue
[18:55] <JanC> a command to tell upstart it has to forget or force the status of 1 particular job could be useful too
[18:55] <JanC> but of course that's still a workaround
[18:56] <SpamapS> Yeah
[18:56] <SpamapS> better workaround
[18:56] <SpamapS> It actually may be this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/539175
[18:56] <SpamapS> but.. in reverse
[18:59] <anchepiece> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/438313    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/504989   https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397
[19:03] <SpamapS> anchepiece: thanks.. that does look like the problem
[19:18] <ion> The real fix is the proc connector implementation that Just Works™. Meanwhile, people just need to use ‘expect’ only when they’re 100 % sure of the forking behavior of their main process.
[19:22] <SpamapS> given the response tho
[19:22] <SpamapS> the existence of a "verify pids" workaround seems needed
[19:23] <SpamapS> also it would make sense for init to just verify that its signal was acted on by checking the entry in /proc if available
[19:24] <ion> Backups are needed for people who delete important stuff by mistake. Yes, people shouldn’t delete important stuff by mistake.
[19:25] <ion> Anyhoo, a clean patch that is not too nasty a kluge might make it into Upstart.
[19:33] <ion> …if Keybuk approves it, of course. :-)
[19:39] <Keybuk> what do I have to approve?
[19:52] <ion> People have been suggesting that Upstart check the pids it thinks it’s tracking actually exist as a workaround when people confuse Upstart with incorrect use of ‘expect’. That is, until the proc connector implementation is there, of course. I said your approval is needed for a patch if someone feels like creating one.
[20:00] <Keybuk> how would it "check" the pid?
[20:02] <ion> In any case, it would be a kluge. I didn’t really give thought to how to avoid a race condition etc.
[20:14] <Keybuk> reminds me that I must finish my new supervisor code, give that to everyone to play with
[20:19] <ion> The proc connector code?
[21:04] <yuantai> Hello! I hope I'm in the right channel. I have a question on upstart. I have a daemon to monitor the power status. It needs to intercept shutdown/reboot event, i.e. runlevel 0 and 6, and before network goes down, it needs to report to a centralized server. My question is: in upstart how to I define "before network goes down and after shutdown/reboot"?
[21:20] <yuantai> Or can someone point me to the right place/mailing list to ask the question? Thanks!
[21:24] <anchepiece> yuantai: i think if you stick around a bit someone will have a good answer for you..
[21:24] <anchepiece> i think yuo can throw a script into here though: /etc/network/if-down.d
[21:24] <anchepiece> /etc/network/if-down.d/upstart i mean
[21:29] <yuantai> thank you anchepiece,
[21:31] <yuantai> I'm doing it on a RHEL6 machine, it doesn't have the /etc/network/if-down.d/upstart. Is it only in Ubuntu?
[21:33] <anchepiece> http://upstart.pastebin.com/vz8hq557
[21:33] <SpamapS> yuantai: how about start on starting rc RUNLEVEL=[016]   ?
[21:33] <anchepiece> thats the initctl emit
[21:34]  * SpamapS doesn't know if RHEL6 uses rc either :-P
[21:34] <anchepiece> that file is in marked executabe in /etc/network/if-down.d/ dir
[21:39] <yuantai> Thanks SpamapS, it seems RHEL6 also uses rc.
[21:39] <SpamapS> yuantai: note that that will make it run *before* the shutdown commences
[21:39] <SpamapS> yuantai: but, as soon as your job finishes, the rc will start and shutdown
[21:41] <yuantai> anchepiece: I'm wondering if I can use this code in my own machine?
[21:43] <anchepiece> in a conf file add a "start on net-device-down"
[21:43] <yuantai> SpamapS: in this combined format, can I find out which runlevel the admin issued? My daemon also needs to know whether it's reboot or shutdown
[21:46] <yuantai> anchepiece: for "start on net-device-down", is it going to run when ifdown command is issued?
[21:47] <anchepiece> you need to drop that script in /etc/network/if-down.d/ ,which will emit and read in your conf
[21:47] <anchepiece> so yes
[21:47] <SpamapS> yuantai: yes $RUNLEVEL will be set to it I think
[21:47] <anchepiece> i guess that ubuntu is much more tightly integrate with upstart than fedora/redhat
[21:48] <SpamapS> anchepiece: I don't know if they have that in fedora/redhat
[21:48] <anchepiece> /etc/network/if-down.d/ ?
[21:48] <anchepiece> oh hrm
[21:48] <anchepiece> yes you're right
[21:49] <anchepiece> well, on this older fedora c7 its not there
[21:50] <anchepiece> but i see mention of it in fc13
[21:51] <anchepiece> i guess look thtough /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts
[21:52] <yuantai> thanks anchepiece, yes it's in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts,
[21:55] <yuantai> But is this folder the upstart scripts?
[21:56] <anchepiece> i think you'd have to add a call yourself to the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifdown script (see how OTHERSCRIPT is run, duplicate that)
[21:56] <anchepiece> sorry have to go but you are close
[21:56] <yuantai> thank you anchepiece


[06:36] <vikashkoushik> anybody there?
[06:36] <vikashkoushik> I have a doubt
[06:36] <vikashkoushik> Pls help
[06:37] <vikashkoushik> I've uploaded a picture on the website
[06:37] <vikashkoushik> named it as Ubuntu logo.
[06:37] <vikashkoushik> How do i see it on the webite?
[06:38] <vikashkoushik> website. sorry
[06:42] <BHSPitLappy> uhh, what
[06:44] <vikashkoushik> pls reply
[06:44] <vikashkoushik> again
[06:44] <vikashkoushik>  i by mistake closed the window without reading your reply
[06:51] <BHSPitLappy> I said "uhh, what"
[14:17] <SiDi> hi
[15:00] <dashua> Hey SiDi
[15:00] <SiDi> heya dashua
[15:00] <SiDi> gz on rust, really nice
[15:00] <dashua> Oh thx
[15:01] <dashua> It's really growing on me
[15:01] <SiDi> i'd use it if there was a dark brown xfwm :P which i was meant to do last week but i went lazy :D
[15:01] <dashua> I'd help out on that, but I'm not real familiar with Xfce
[15:02] <dashua> Maybe you can hack on it
[15:02] <SiDi> i'll do it, its really easy to make xfwm's. it's just that i'm a bit busy right now :)
[15:02] <dashua> Ah cool
[15:03] <SiDi> im away from home for a week, and i'll need photoshop (gimp drives me crazy), so it'll wait a little more
[15:03] <SiDi> just shout at me if you don't receive any email about it sunday ;)
[15:03] <SiDi> (next sunday*=
[15:03] <dashua> Np
[15:04] <dashua> I'm still testing, but haven't really any compatibility issues with problem apps
[15:04] <dashua> Seems solid so far, but we'll see
[15:04] <SiDi> well, i just need to take an hour to do it but i always postpone, that's why you shouldnt hesitate shouting at me :)
[15:04] <SiDi> well, the metacity renders badly with compiz under xfce, but thats almost always the case :D
[15:04] <SiDi> it's meant for the murrinesvn, right ?
[15:05] <dashua> Yeah
[15:05] <dashua> That's the only engine it uses
[15:05] <dashua> Did you get the version from trunk, I had a metacity issue fixed?
[15:05] <SiDi> Dunno, i don't use metacity at all
[15:05] <SiDi> i downloaded it on gnome-look
[15:06] <SiDi> i was searching for new themes, i thought this one was quite nice
[15:06] <SiDi> then i noticed it was from you :)
[15:06] <dashua> I want to try Xfce, looks pretty sexxy
[15:06] <SiDi> it is :D
[15:07] <SiDi> even firefox looks great with rust :)
[15:07] <dashua> Any issues running it as another session along GNOME?
[15:08] <dashua> xubuntu-desktop is all I would need, eh?
[15:08] <SiDi> yeh
[15:08] <SiDi> i got gnome and xfce here
[15:08] <SiDi> it's running ok
[15:08] <SiDi> just a little more HDD space used ;)
[15:09] <SiDi> and i use gedit/gnome-terminal a lot
[15:09] <dashua> Cool, I will give it a go :)
[15:10] <dashua> I used it on Arch a few years ago on my older box
[15:10] <dashua> It was quite snappy.
[15:23] <SiDi> its fast to use, and i love xfwm's shortcuts, and the feature that rolls the windows up when you scroll their titlebar
[15:54] <SiDi> dashua, i remember why i wasnt using rust lately !
[15:54] <SiDi> the clock in xfce panel isnt readable
[15:54] <SiDi> its black on dark brown text
[15:54] <SiDi> i dont know how to change it tho :)
[15:54] <SiDi> needa go, see you later
[15:57] <dashua> C ya
[19:00] <_MMA_> Man. *This* is what people are going to see when the look for linux artist communities? http://linuxgraphicsusers.com
[19:01] <knome> lol
[19:01]  * _MMA_ just shakes head.
[19:14] <savvas> the dot in the logo makes it more powerful
[19:14] <savvas> :p
[19:14] <_MMA_> ;)
[20:27] <BHSPitLappy> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


[09:27] <davlefou> Bjr,
[16:44] <davlefou> http://www.fhimt.com/2011/09/04/microsoft-et-ben-ali-wikileaks-confirme-les-soupcons-d%E2%80%99une-aide-pour-la-surveillance-des-citoyens-tunisiens/
[17:53] <plof> u-la-la: I like your name!
[17:53] <u-la-la> plof: What?
[17:53] <plof> Yes :)
[17:55] <plof> If wrong and right was highly deterministic we would see automatas solving all problems in a fraction, and then, we would be bored as the godly promise of an eternal boring heaven and hell, so we would try to create more problems to waste time with them!
[17:56] <plof> %s/was/were/g
[18:10] <plof> ChanServ: hi
[18:20] <hassoon> guys i want to start my freelance web dev career but i don't know where to start from
[18:20] <hassoon> any help ?
[19:19] <elacheche> hassoon: UpWork maybe!


[00:21] <popey> tonyyarusso / Pricey mis-addressed mail.
[02:06] <h00k> wait, is it !guidelines in the autoremove command that will throw guidelines to the user?
[02:06] <rww> h00k: ubottu parses /remove messages and issues factoids appropriately in PM
[02:07] <h00k> rww: yes, so, would it grab !guidelines?
[02:07] <rww> yes
[02:07] <h00k> I asked agu10^ not to ascii-art in a pm
[02:07] <h00k> and obviously got taunted.
[02:07] <rww> it would also grab "people who dislike !pie are not welcome here"
[02:07] <h00k> sweet.
[02:08] <rww> (assuming removal from -ot, since !pie is channel-specific)
[02:10] <h00k> yeah...
[02:12] <h00k> agu10^ is arguing there's nothing that says no ascii art of breasts.
[02:12] <h00k> I'm /querying.
[02:14] <gpc> there is something about being appropriate and not creppy
[02:14] <gpc> creepy*
[02:14] <gpc> paraphrasing ^^
[02:14] <h00k> yes
[02:15] <h00k> This conversation will be in the bantracker, as well.
[02:16] <h00k> @login
[02:16] <h00k> @btlogin
[02:17] <h00k> added
[02:32] <rww> wait, those were /breasts/?
[02:32]  * rww saw eyes
[02:32] <maco> rww: yes
[02:32] <maco> rww: clearly you do not get troll pms from what i assume are teenagers with great frequency
[02:33] <h00k> And now is trying to argue about what they are in a PM.
[02:33] <maco> rww: you had to give him ideas!
[02:33] <rww> maco: they usually make stupid threats instead of drawing me pictures :(
[02:33] <h00k> I told him it is not up for debate, and to discuss it in here.
[02:34] <agu10^> hi guys
[02:34] <h00k> agu10^: Do you understand why you were banned from #ubuntu-offtopic?
[02:34] <agu10^> I guess you confused my text with the previous text
[02:35] <agu10^> just a smiley
[02:35] <h00k> agu10^: I certainly am not confused.
[02:35] <agu10^> ...
[02:36] <h00k> agu10^: you had done the first one, I had asked you not to continue. You did it again, I removed you and got you the links to the !codeofconduct and !guidelines. You did it a third time, clearly you're not understanding the point.
[02:36] <agu10^> I didn't do anything like that
[02:37] <agu10^> I changed the simley because of you
[02:37] <tonyyarusso> Just because it makes *you* smile to do it doesn't mean it qualifies as a "smiley".
[02:37] <agu10^> besides, you never warned me the first time
[02:37] <agu10^> tonyyarusso, it's an emoticon
[02:38] <agu10^> ( . ) _ ( . )
[02:38] <h00k> agu10^: Logs show different, which are recorded in the bantracker.
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> And what emotion would that be, pray tell?
[02:38] <agu10^> just like :|
[02:38] <agu10^> but bigger
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> Seems like a lot of extra work compared to writing :|
[02:38] <agu10^> h00k, look at the logs again, you'll be surprised
[02:38] <rww> *_*
[02:39] <agu10^> tonyyarusso, not if you have set up shortcuts
[02:39] <h00k> agu10^: I'm not going to argue, this is not up for debate.
[02:39] <agu10^> h00k, yes I know... retard police don't argue. ever
[02:39] <gpc> You must not have read"Please be considerate of everyone and keep all the #ubuntu channels friendly places for everyone. This means that you should avoid any language which may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such language" specifically this "which may be considered offensive". it offended at least 1 person who asked you not to do it again see "Please be respectful and take the discussion elsewhere if someone takes e
[02:39] <gpc> xception."
 Timestamps in both the chat logs and bantracker will show the order in which things happened.
[02:43] <agu10^> not really
[02:43] <agu10^> you never asked not to
[02:43] <h00k> 20:04 >> [                h00k] Don't be doing ascii art of that type in the channel again, please
[02:43] <tonyyarusso> We all saw him ask, so this really isn't worth pursuing further if that's the argument you're going with.
[02:43] <agu10^> that was AFTER
[02:43] <h00k> agu10^: after the first one, yes. The the second came directed at me.
[02:43] <agu10^> oh wait maybe I didn't check priv msgs
[02:44] <h00k> 20:05 <              agu10^ > h00k, ( . )U( . )
[02:44] <agu10^> well if you're right, then it's because I don't INSTANTLY check private messages
[02:44] <agu10^> I'm sorry for that
[02:44] <agu10^> 1 minute difference
[02:44] <h00k> If you notice, 20:05 does come after 20:04.
[02:45] <rww> get your math out of here
[02:45] <agu10^> sure I should've read all my private messages before posting anywhere else
[02:45] <agu10^> it's a pity I had more than one pending to read
[02:45] <gpc> you should have known not to do it again after being removed from the channel
[02:45] <agu10^> ?
[02:45] <agu10^> gpc, I wasn't removed from the channel because of that
[02:45] <agu10^> I was removed because of an inoccent smiley
[02:46] <agu10^> ( . ) _ ( . )
[02:46] <tonyyarusso> If it was innocent, you wouldn't have been removed.
[02:46] <tonyyarusso> That should be rather obvious by now.
[02:46] <gpc> !appeals > agu10^
[02:47] <gpc> just getting it out of the way.
[02:47] <h00k> gpc: thanks, I was just about to
[02:47] <agu10^> tonyyarusso, are you serious? lol
[02:47] <tonyyarusso> Of course.  We all are.
[02:47] <agu10^> you shouldn't think all smileys are the same smiley
[02:48] <h00k> clearly, this isn't going to get anywhere.
[02:48] <tonyyarusso> nope
[02:48] <agu10^> so if I write ":P", you'd have banned me too?
[02:48] <tonyyarusso> nope
[02:48] <gpc> no
[02:48] <agu10^> then wtf
[02:48] <agu10^> because it's a longer smiley?
[02:48] <tonyyarusso> nope
[02:49] <agu10^> or just because it looks a bit like the other smiley
[02:49] <h00k> agu10^: In the context of what you brought up in the /query with me, it was inappropriate.
[02:49] <agu10^> h00k, uh??
[02:50] <rww> How about "because you deliberately modified it enough so that you could make this silly argument, but not enough that it wasn't obvious that you were fishing for reactions"?
[02:50] <agu10^> h00k, what are you talking about now?
[02:50] <agu10^> rww, not really
[02:50] <agu10^> rww, I figured out I could make a face using similar characters. it seemed funny
[02:50] <h00k> One time, I nicely warned you in a /query.  After the third time, the message wasn't clear enough
[02:50] <gpc> funny we all agree and have the same opinion but we are all wrong.
[02:50] <agu10^> and of course it's not outside the rules
[02:50] <agu10^> so... why wouldn't I have posted that last smiley?
[02:51] <agu10^> just 'cause?
[02:51] <tonyyarusso> Because you listened to h00k the first two times?
[02:51] <agu10^> h00k, there was never a third time
[02:51] <h00k> agu10^: gpc did a nice job above summarizing where it violates our rules.
[02:51] <agu10^> h00k, i heard you the first time. but it was after the second time
[02:51] <h00k> agu10^: So you did get the first /query?
[02:51] <agu10^> h00k, sorry for the timing, dude
[02:52] <agu10^> h00k, yes, after I did it twice
[02:52] <h00k> I thought you didn't get it.
[02:52] <agu10^> i got it, but late
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> agu10^: Look, unless you have a point to make that you haven't already, this is just a waste of time.  Please see the appeals link from ubottu and move along.
[02:52] <agu10^> only when I was removed from chan
[02:52]  * h00k facepalms.
[02:52] <h00k> in which case, you did it again.
[02:52] <agu10^> ?
[02:53] <h00k> So, please move along. This is a waste of my time.
[02:53] <agu10^> I did it twice before even finding out it wasn't allowed
[02:53] <agu10^> I had been directed to #ubuntu-offtopic for this
[02:53] <gpc> but you did find out
[02:53] <agu10^> from #ubuntu
[02:53] <agu10^> gpc, too late it seems
[02:53] <gpc> and did it a third time
[02:53] <h00k> agu10^: !guidelines are clearly displayed in the channel topic.
[02:54] <agu10^> gpc, no third time, EVER
[02:54] <agu10^> gpc, you just made that up
[02:54] <agu10^> h00k, yes I read that
[02:54] <agu10^> h00k, it doesn't disallow smileys
[02:54] <gpc> sorry, you are right, the third time you changed it just a little so it really isn't the third but becomes the first time for that "smiley"
[02:55] <gpc> not going to work.
[02:55] <h00k> I'm done discussing this.
[02:55] <gpc> me too.
[02:55] <agu10^> gpc, it's not related to sex whatsoever anymore
[02:55] <h00k> Please move along.
[02:55] <agu10^> gpc, so I don't see what the deal is
[02:55] <agu10^> what if they are a bit similar?
[02:55] <h00k> agu10^: Please move along.
[02:55] <agu10^> it's really impossible to think of that smiley as the same smiley
[02:55] <gpc> agu10^: in that case you were baiting which is also not allowed
[02:56] <agu10^> baiting?
[02:56] <gpc> yes, trying to get a reaction
[02:56] <agu10^> not really
[02:56] <gpc> anyway. I can't and wouldn't remove the ban. the people who can also said they won't.
[02:57] <agu10^> I was hoping people would laught at the smiley because it looks a bit similar to the other one
[02:57] <gpc> discussion over. you have the link to appeal if you widh to do so. Please part this channel and have a nice evening.
[02:57] <agu10^> didn't think any retard police was there
[02:57] <rww> or are clueless enough that they don't feel comfortable dealing with the situation :(
[02:57] <rww> Plus, well, your choice of nicknames is sub-par :(
[02:58] <gpc> please part.
[02:58] <gpc> yes. I told you before calling us retards is unacceptable.
[02:59] <gpc> had enough.
[02:59]  * persia idly notes that wikipedia claims "(´；ω；`)" means "terribly sad" and wonders at the wild variance of emoticon understandings.  ("（・Ａ・）" is defined as "That's bad" and isn't that different from the one considered inappropriate)
[03:00] <h00k> I would have opped a while ago, but have no permishuns
[03:00] <gpc> !chanserv
[03:00] <gpc> !chanserv.py
[03:01] <gpc> just found a bug
[03:01] <h00k> I have /opme, which does...
[03:01] <h00k> OPME = "msg chanserv op $C $0";
[03:01] <rww> ps, they're called emoticons >.>
[03:02] <h00k> rww: IS THAT MADONNA, unacceptable
[03:02]  * h00k /kb rww
[03:02] <rww> LOL
[03:03] <h00k> gpc: what does your scripty do different than that?
[03:04] <gpc> h00k: I use /cs op for opping
[03:04] <gpc> /opme does noting
[03:04] <h00k> gpc: I'm on the irssi
[03:04] <gpc> that splains it
[03:05] <gpc> like I said I found a bug in chanserv.py
[03:08] <rww> gpc: go bug Seveas about it, then ;P
[03:08] <gpc> I am
[03:08] <gpc> hehe
[03:08] <rww> make sure to wear armour, he bites
[03:08] <gpc> nah, Seveas is ok if you bring cookies and ask really nice
[03:09] <gpc> how do you think I got him to add the timed mutes to the script
[03:11] <rww> I've been trying not to think about it.
[03:11]  * h00k rofls
[03:11] <gpc> you know it ways heavy on your mind
[03:11] <rww> your English usage weighs heavily on my mind :(
[03:11] <gpc> Now agu10^ is threatening to DDoS me in PM
[03:12] <h00k> Oh, nice. Add that one to the bantracker
[03:12] <gpc> wats rong wit my english?
[03:12] <rww> h00k: moose is robinetd. in case you didn't know.
[03:12] <gpc> oh right I see
[03:12] <rww> it took me a while >.>
[03:12] <gpc> weighs
[03:12] <gpc> :P
[03:13] <gpc> You should correct me. Not make fun of me :(
[03:13] <h00k> rww: Yeah, I got that
[03:14]  * rww makes note, h00k is smarter than me
[03:14] <gpc> isn't that Hoober with the tmpfl host?
[03:15] <rww> He has one, but it's not the same one.
[03:15]  * h00k akes note, rww is wrong at judging intelligence
[03:16]  * h00k adds a m to akes
[03:16]  * h00k can't even splel
[03:16] <elky> You both agreed to be op.
[03:30] <elky> hah
[03:30] <KB1JWQ> On a related note, when the call for staff volunteers went out originally I thought you'd have to be crazy to apply for freenode staff.  Two years later I'm sure of it...
[03:30] <elky> This is why I'm generally against asking for volunteers for jobs like this.
[03:31] <h00k> us poor suckers do it ourselves :(
[03:44] <persia> elky, What other model works: only allow people to nominate others, and then select from some set with the largest number of nominations?
[03:51] <elky> persia, previously the operators, the ones who already know what the job involves, asked people they saw who matched the particular characteristics that made a good op.
[03:52] <persia> So, then, yes.
[03:52] <elky> Not quite.
[04:03] <persia> Hrm.  ops nominate candidate ops: those with lots of nominations get selected to be new ops.
[04:04] <h00k> I don't think I ever remember seeing "NetHack" before.
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> Whether they like it or not!
[04:05] <h00k> 22:01 ::: NetHack #ubuntu-ops "+vvv Amaranth Pricey topyli" by card.freenode.net
[04:05] <Amaranth> Wow that was a long split
[04:06] <h00k> That was.
[04:07] <elky> persia, it used to be more like "blah seems to fit the spec. seen anything to contradict that? no? i'll talk to them then!"
[04:07] <maco> gord didnt rejoin
[04:08] <elky> maco, he did, just not id'd
[04:08] <maco> i dont see the /join
[04:08] <persia> elky, Ah.  Same thing, except less formal and doesn't scale.  Feels nicer though.
[04:08] <maco> thats how forum mods happen too
[04:09] <persia> developers mostly too, although we've added a process layer, to everyone's confusion.
[04:09] <elky> persia, well it does scale if there isn't a wall of "buuuut you didn't consider myyyyyy opinion"
[04:10] <persia> Yeah, but that inevitably happens once the team size gets above 16, because people no longer inherently know everyone else's opinion.
[04:11] <elky> persia, nono, this was people outside the team
[04:11] <persia> And once you get twice that, the majority participates in the wall of "buuuuttt...", which gets ugly and awkward :(
[04:12] <persia> That's not a scaling issue: that's a presentation issue.
[04:12] <persia> Somewhat related, in that presenting to a large audience is different than a small one, but you need a good few hundred entitled folk before you end up with that sort of issue.
[04:30] <its-me-again> oh sorry you all somehow i have another ban what a weird thing.  guess you know what you are doing.  I just want to know why is all
[04:31] <its-me-again> so i can move on
[04:32] <rww> its-me-again: asking for Mint support in #ubuntu
[04:32] <its-me-again> rally when did i do that
[04:33] <its-me-again> i might have once i cant remember
[04:33] <rww> the day you were banned
[04:33] <its-me-again> o well as long as its only for a month or so i am not going to be to bothered about it
[04:33] <h00k> approximately, yep.
[04:33] <its-me-again> i dont know when ay
[04:34] <its-me-again> i will not annoy you to much here.  but i understane i might have done it.
[04:34] <its-me-again> i dont know if its perminant or just tempory
[04:34] <its-me-again> but i trust your ops judgment
[04:37] <rww> its-me-again: It appears that this isn't the first time you've been actioned for this. I wonder about the thought process that leads you to trust the judgement of operators but disregard when they tell you about rules :\
[04:37] <rww> But, I guess you'd have to talk to ikonia about that. I don't have enough insight into the situation.
[04:38] <its-me-again> oh well i wont bother you again unless i need access when i start using ubuntu again.
[04:39] <its-me-again> #ubuntu is verry strict adn i know alot of ubuntu users put of for just trying to ask simnple questions.  so they hate irc cause of the way they as noobs get treated.    but you run a busy channel so i guess you are tough.
[04:39] <its-me-again> i think he wont like me to much fter doing it again
[04:42] <rww> Having common-sense rules and enforcing them isn't really tough. There are a few thinga we need to do to keep #ubuntu usable. One of them is limiting #ubuntu to actual Ubuntu users, to reduce confusion.
[04:42] <its-me-again> sometimes when problems are ubuntu related not mint related its not ok to ask in #ubuntu
[04:42] <rww> And yes, I imagine that pretending to use Ubuntu while actually using Mint, then being banned for it, then saying you won't do it again, then doing it again anyway, then getting banned for it again, is not the best way to endear yourself to the people who enforce those rules :\
[04:43] <its-me-again> i have found in my use that if the problems are ubuntu related then i get better heklp from #ubuntu
[04:43] <rww> Perhaps you should have considered that #ubuntu does support better than Linux Mint's IRC channel when you chose to use Linux Mint. Which support avenues you may use are a function of your choice of distribution.
[04:44] <rww> You can't have your minty-fresh cake and eat Ubuntu's too, though.
[04:44] <its-me-again> i find even in mint when there are bugs with apps they say report it in the ubuntu bug report channel
[04:44] <its-me-again> not the mint one
[04:44] <rww> If they say this, they are wrong.
[04:45] <its-me-again> rww: do you use mint
[04:45] <rww> No.
[04:45] <its-me-again> ok
[04:51] <its-me-again>  i ws banned for breaking the rules is all that is the basic point its not even how i broke them the fact is i did.
[05:03] <gpc> its-me-again: Was there anything else we could help you with?
[05:04] <its-me-again> gpc: no cause i probabbly will not get n unban now at least for a fair while.   because i broake the rules.  i do get tons of help from #ubuntu
[05:05] <its-me-again> but still i ws stupid so you cant help me about that.
[05:05] <its-me-again> you know this is not my first offence and i may not ever now get lifted so you are free to go
[05:05] <gpc> ok, I am glad you understand the reason you were banned. Please don't idle in here.
[05:08] <its-me-again>  there comes a time when enough is enough and you have to be hard no matter the individual users reasons and pleadings.  its about the channel as a hole not the individual users.
[05:09] <its-me-again> gpc: if you want to let the op who banned me know what i said its up to you.
[05:09]  * its-me-again is out now for a long time untillhe seriously desides to use ubuntu again.
[05:10] <its-me-again> thanks all for your patience and time to let me understand my ways
[05:46] <cdbs> its-me-again: Please don't idle here, read the topic
[05:48] <gpc> wow epic lag
[05:59] <cdbs> hi gpc, why the change in nickname?
[05:59] <cdbs> gpc: what should be dome with its-me-again ?
[06:00] <rww> cdbs: its-me-again is not in #ubuntu-ops.
[06:00] <cdbs> gpc: oops, unping
[06:01] <cdbs> rww: yep, I am currently fiddling with my ZNC and the way it recognises nicks
[06:01] <cdbs> according to my client its on this channel but a simple /whois says not
[06:01] <rww> hehe. there's a reason I keep it simple and just ssh to my irc client. bouncers give me a headache.
[06:01] <cdbs> rww: hmm, ssh is irritating over a slow connection
[06:02] <cdbs> rww: I tried that earlier
[06:02] <rww> Not so much if you can keep a handle on what's in the I/O buffer but not on your screen yet. I'm fortunate to be using a VPS rather near me, though, so it's not much of a problem.
[06:08] <cdbs> rww: well, I am used to keep switching across my irssi screens using alt+{1,2,etc} commands and this becomes slow in irssi+screen+ssh
[06:15] <persia> irssi also has a proxy mode, so you can connect local irssi over ssh to remote irssi, which connects to servers.  You get local response time for buffer controls, and remote reliability (and remote lag for buffer content)
[06:57] <tonyyarusso> RFC:  Is it wise to use the word "appeals" for our appeals process?  I'm wondering if that incurs too much of a legal "some higher body will either affirm or overturn a ruling", rather than "take this to a less emotionally-involved group to discuss further.  I'm assuming the latter is more of what we intend.
[06:58] <tonyyarusso> s/further/further"/
[06:58] <jussi> tonyyarusso: any thoughts about what it could be changed to?
[06:58] <tonyyarusso> jussi: Magical Unicorns Process.
[06:59] <jussi> hahah
[06:59] <jussi> right, Im offf to sweden. see you all later.
[06:59]  * tonyyarusso wonders if English even has a suitable word
[06:59] <tonyyarusso> Sadly, "continuance" also has legal meaning :(
[07:00] <tonyyarusso> uence?  iurno
[07:00] <tonyyarusso> Elevation is still less than ideal, but at least possible.
[07:02] <tonyyarusso> Recourse?  Referral?
[07:02] <tonyyarusso> Oooo, I like referral.
[07:07] <tonyyarusso> or review, that would work too.
[07:50] <Tm_T> YankDownUnder notified of his behaviour
[08:55] <elky> thoughts on atomicspark's noise?
[08:56] <elky> I'm personally quite over it.
[14:00] <Pici> nhandler: I don't see the new IRCC meeting time on the fridge calendar.
[14:34] <jussi> Pici: we havent changed it  yet - I sent the mail from my phone - Ill get to it soon. (if no one else does first)
[14:41] <ikonia> 14:41 -!- IRCAnswersBot<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has
[14:41] <ikonia> looks interesting
[14:41] <Pici> Its an allwoed bot.
[14:42] <ikonia> I've never seen it before
[14:52] <Pici> !prayer
[14:52] <persia> Hey!    I want your xkcd feed: I only get three a week.
[15:29] <genii-around> Are we under attack?
[15:31] <gpc> genii-around: looks like KB1JWQ unplugged the wrong wire again
[15:31] <genii-around> hm
[16:03]  * Pici sends ikonia some faces
[16:03] <Pici> or foxes
[16:03] <ikonia> I'd rather have something that stops this guy wanting to be spoon fed
[16:11] <Pici> ikonia: A drink
[16:11] <Pici> ?
[16:12] <ikonia> I'll take it
[16:20] <cdbs> So freenode welcomed mubarak's stepping down with netsplits?
[16:21] <gpc> huh?
[16:21] <maco> gpc: mubarak stepped down
[16:21] <gpc> yes, I heard
[16:21] <maco> and freenode is netsplitting out the wazoo
[16:21] <gpc> wondering what a freenode netsplit has to do with that
[16:22] <maco> a joke?
[16:24] <gpc> I am glad Egypt is going to get new and hopefully democratic leadership. I don't see how it is relevant to anything Ubuntu. especially when we just kicked 3-4? users for mentioning it in #ubuntu. First we kick users for talking about it then we make "jokes" in here? :/
[16:24] <gpc> or maybe I am taking it the wrong way. apologies if I am.
[16:25] <ikonia> I didn't kick them for mentioning it, I kicked them for continuing to mention it after I told them to stop
[16:25] <gpc> ikonia: yes, that is what i meant
[16:25] <ikonia> and one guy who was joining channels spamming it, then leaving
[16:49] <h00k> @btlogin
[16:56] <Pici> wow
[16:56] <ikonia> ?
[16:57] <Pici> ikonia: induz
[16:57] <ikonia> I know I know
[16:59] <ikonia> ughh phix is back
[16:59] <ikonia> I thought he was banned
[17:02] <h00k> that was quick.
[17:03] <ikonia> he has over 40 entries in BT - he knows the score
[17:03] <h00k> I did 'tell phix about !ot' and I think ubottu should be able to parse that and understand what I meant
[17:03] <h00k> alternatively, I could just use the correct syntax.
[17:05] <mneptok> tell me about !your_childhood
[17:12] <h00k> mneptok: I've never lived in a house more than four years.
[17:12] <mneptok> it's good to get out sometimes.
[17:15]  * h00k stares longingly at the windows from his desk
[17:18] <jussi> ikonia: the allowed bots are listed on the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots :)
[17:18] <ikonia> I'd just not noticed it before
[17:19] <jussi> ok :)
[17:19] <h00k> maybe they'll let me outside today.
[17:20] <jussi> h00k: a dangerous character like you? definately not...
[17:20] <jussi> :P
[17:20]  * gpc waits outside h00k's window with the motor running
[17:21] <gpc> make sure you grab the stapler before you escape
[17:21] <h00k> I have to collect all of the BuckyBalls, too. Can I bring my whiteboard?
[17:22] <gpc> I got a sentra not a cube van
[17:22]  * gpc drives off slowly.
[17:22] <h00k> jussi: although, it was -17F out this morning, I don't know that I want to get out.
[17:22] <jussi> h00k: do you even want to hear how cold it was here? ;) :P
[17:23] <h00k> jussi: probably not but yes definitely.
[17:23] <jussi> -29.7 ... My car complained lots.
[17:24] <h00k> Yeah...jussi, are you in the States?
[17:24] <jussi> h00k: no. Northern finland....
[17:24] <h00k> jussi: Ah, okay, that is what I thought. Was that C or F?
[17:25] <jussi> C
[17:26] <h00k> we had around -32.7C here yesterday :(
[17:26] <h00k> So, Northern Finland = Wisconsin.
[17:26] <h00k> basically.
[17:26] <jussi> haha
[17:26] <h00k> Except we probably have more cheese.
[17:26] <jussi> Nasty though.
[17:26] <jussi> and we are closer to the arctic circle.
[17:27] <jussi> h00k: it was particularly bad that it was cold this morning - I had to go to sweden. Im just glad it warmed up during the day.
[17:28] <h00k> My feet got cold driving, my heater wouldn't keep them warm.
[17:28] <popey> @btlogin
[20:56] <rww> rww's bad idea for today: Trollopoly, a version of Monopoly with #ubuntu* namespace channels as properties and "!guidelines", "/remove", "+q", and "+b" instead of houses and hotels.
[20:57] <rww> comes with gamepieces representing our most infamous problem users
[21:03] <gpc> Sounds like an interesting project.
[21:04] <gpc> would you like me to contact Canonical and find out if we can use the logo?
[21:04] <gpc> I think we may need to talk to freenode legal dept. also
[21:04] <rww> I think I may need to talk to a psychologist.
[21:05] <gpc> that is a given
[21:05] <Tm_T> you can talk to me instead
[21:14] <rww> sorted ^
[21:16] <rww> although keeping an eye on suzu is probably a good idea, timestamps considered.
[21:16]  * pleia2 nods
[21:19] <marienz> you were mentioned on #defocus
[21:19] <rww> joy
[21:19] <marienz> suzu *probably* joined via that (being an innocent bystander)
[21:21] <marienz> and when I say "mentioned" I mean:
[21:21] <marienz> 22:12:29 <+~Sarajevo> Any girls here?
[21:22] <marienz> 22:12:55 <+~Sarajevo> Let me discover u a dirty secret
[21:22] <marienz> and you should be able to figure out the rest
[21:23] <maco> oh boy
[21:29] <rww> !no, cake-#ubuntu-offtopic is <reply> The cake is a !pie!
[21:29] <rww> gpc: ubottu just hates you.
[21:30] <gpc> prossibly
[21:30] <rww> or user error ;P
[21:30] <gpc> probably


[00:44] <dougdastew> any body know if there is a Qt room?
[02:06] <dougdastew> BobJonkman:  R U there?
[12:54] <BluesKaj> Hiyas  all


[07:42] <kimhindart> Hello I have trouble login in to launchpad
[07:42] <kimhindart> https://login.launchpad.net/v81mDZ7o6zjqMLCG/+decide
[07:42] <kimhindart> I press yes,log me in
[07:43] <kimhindart> and then
[07:43] <kimhindart> Oops!
[07:43] <kimhindart> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
[07:43] <kimhindart> We’ve recorded what happened, and we’ll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience.
[07:43] <kimhindart> (Error ID: OOPS-559f37a24dcb7f5d8f30ff5e3f67e294)
[07:43] <ubot5`> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-559f37a24dcb7f5d8f30ff5e3f67e294
[12:33] <Baqar> Hi guys. Need some help in pushing a deb package to my PPA. Is this the right channel to discuss it?
[12:33] <dobey> yes-ish
[12:57] <Baqar> I am trying to push a deb package on my PPA for xenial release but as I am on precise myself debuild is failing.
[12:57] <Baqar> Any thoughts?
[13:17] <dobey> Baqar: what are you doing exactly? trying to push binary packages to launchpad?
[13:18] <dobey> or it's just failing to build in launchpad? you should set up an sbuild environment to do local test builds https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
[13:54] <Baqar> dobey: So there is this PPA that has a xyz.deb package. I pulled the tar file, made the changes, then ran dch -i .. as i am on precise the changelog was set to precise but i changed it to xenial as i need this package to be available for xenial aswell. but because of that debuild -s failed
[13:54] <Baqar> I am new to PPA so bear with the wrong terminology
[13:55] <dobey> well debuild -S gives an explanation of failure when it does
[13:56] <dobey> that has nothing to do with being in a PPA or not though


[06:04] <slangasek> xnox: there appear to be a couple of genuine regressions on s390x autopkgtests with perl 5.26
[06:39] <tsimonq2> Release Team (cc cjwatson): Lubuntu Alternate images are failing to build because of this: "Missing debootstrap-required ubuntu-advantage-tools", could someone look into it?
[06:42] <slangasek> tsimonq2: cjwatson: fixing (and this is archive admin, not release team)
[06:43] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Thanks
[06:43] <slangasek> fixing it by temporarily demoting ubuntu-advantage-tools to optional per http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/priority-mismatches - it will come back in as important later once seeds are updated, but I'm not doing that at quarter to midnight on a Saturday
[06:43] <tsimonq2> (a lot of the people overlap so sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing which is appropriate to ping :) )
[06:44] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Fair enough. :P
[06:44] <tsimonq2> No rush. :)
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libevent [amd64] (artful-proposed/main) [2.1.8-stable-3] (core)
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libevent [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/main) [2.1.8-stable-3] (core)
[17:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libevent [i386] (artful-proposed/main) [2.1.8-stable-3] (core)
[17:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libevent [s390x] (artful-proposed/main) [2.1.8-stable-3] (core)
[17:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gtts-token [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.1.1-1] (no packageset)
[17:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libevent [armhf] (artful-proposed/main) [2.1.8-stable-3] (core)
[17:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libevent [arm64] (artful-proposed/main) [2.1.8-stable-3] (core)
[17:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libdrm [amd64] (artful-proposed/main) [2.4.82-1] (core, xorg)
[17:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: pyee [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [3.0.3-1] (no packageset)
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gtts-token [amd64] (artful-proposed) [1.1.1-1]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libevent [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.1.8-stable-3]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libevent [armhf] (artful-proposed) [2.1.8-stable-3]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libevent [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [2.1.8-stable-3]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted pyee [amd64] (artful-proposed) [3.0.3-1]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libdrm [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.4.82-1]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libevent [i386] (artful-proposed) [2.1.8-stable-3]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libevent [arm64] (artful-proposed) [2.1.8-stable-3]
[18:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libevent [s390x] (artful-proposed) [2.1.8-stable-3]


[08:34] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[08:41] <j0nr> folks, morning
[08:42] <j0nr> I asked in here a week or so ago about how to backup and restore my synced U1 folders...........I forgot
[08:43] <j0nr> I have a backup of my ~/Music folder..... I have a fresh install of U1.... should I put the ~/Music folder onto my fresh install before or after I sign into U1?
[08:43] <mandel> j0nr, you have to do it before, the idea is that you have to amke sure that the metadata is not there before your files, but let me confirm this beofre you do anything
[08:44] <mandel> karni, is that ^ right?
[08:44] <karni> Good morning everyone!
[08:44]  * karni reads
[08:44] <mandel> karni, I remember we once said the wrong thing.. so I want to make sure :P
[08:45] <karni> mandel: j0nr: I believe the user should not copy the metadata over. Just the files. Syncdaemon will first do local rescan, and only then start down/uploading stuff.
[08:45] <karni> mandel: Yeah, I think I told the user to copy metadata as well, which was a mistake
[08:46] <j0nr> So restroe my files as they were i.e. copy my ~/Music onto new system. Then sign into U1
[08:46] <j0nr> just trying to avoid the need to download all my Music
[08:47] <j0nr> sidenote... are you guys in charge of the Android Music App?
[08:47] <karni> j0nr: I believe that is correct. Yes, understood. It' be best to ask our support guys, duanedesign or rye. The former is probably still sleeping.
[08:47] <karni> j0nr: I'm the developer on it.
[08:47] <karni> j0nr: I believe you have something to say :)
[08:48] <rye> karni, you are right, don't copy ~/.local/share/syncdaemon, copy Music only then launch syncdaemon
[08:48] <j0nr> Just wondering if it is still alive and kicking... I put it on my phone ages ago (paid) and haven't seen any updates since...
[08:49] <karni> j0nr: We just made a few improvements and fixed a playlist related server bug. Should be released soon to the Market.
[08:49] <j0nr> karni: Cool! i was going to say, that one really 'bugs' me...
[08:50] <j0nr> the playlists that get saved, are they specific to U1 Android music client or can they be accessed anywhere esle, or by any other programs? e.g. other music apps on my device? Can I access them on my desktop pc?
[08:50] <karni> j0nr: We had some unrelated issues, and this bug hid behind them. This is the only reason it was there for so long, sorry for the inconvenience :<
[08:51] <karni> j0nr: To be honest, I'm not sure.. We save them in couch, so theoretically they should be available. rye, do you know anything about that ↑ ?
[08:52] <karni> j0nr: (I'm gradually taking over the U1 Music app, sorry that I can't answer that particular question yet)
[08:53] <j0nr> Are all playlists the same, e.g. M3U or is it specific to all different applications?
[08:53] <j0nr> if you are storing as M3U then any app should be able to make use of them right? or is there problems with each app knowing where to find the list of music?
[08:53] <j0nr> Sorry I don't know much, just thinking aloud
[08:55] <karni> j0nr: Playlists are stored in CouchDB. It's a database on your computer, that syncs with U1. It's not M3U files.
[08:59] <j0nr> Ok, so I guess that rules out using those playlists in other music apps on my phone
[08:59] <j0nr> fair enough.
[09:00] <karni> j0nr: unless they talk to our Couch db on U1 servers (which is possible for 3rd party developers)
[09:00] <j0nr> ok
[09:54]  * mandel coffee
[09:57] <matti> +`
[09:58] <matti> Ops
[09:58] <matti> +1
[09:58] <matti> Coffee!
[10:12]  * mandel back
[10:12] <mandel> matti,  lol
[10:15] <matti> :)
[10:21] <gatox> hi
[10:22] <matti> Hi
[10:41] <mandel> gatox, buenos dias!
[10:41] <mandel> gatox, truns out it was not deferToThread, but the bloody ubuntuone.platform.tools
[10:42] <gatox> mandel, jejje lot of debugging?
[10:46] <mandel> gatox, more like, lots of swearing :)
[10:46] <gatox> jeje
[11:33]  * mandel walk dog
[11:36] <gatox> mandel, did you already propose the branch that fix the problem in the installer?? because i propose another branch yesterday that  requires the branch you submit yesterday... to know, because if the fix change i have to change my branch
[12:17] <gatox> brb
[12:53] <ralsina> good morning!
[12:53] <ralsina> alecu, nessita, dobey, gatox, mandel: standup in 7'
[12:53] <gatox> ralsina, hi!
[12:54] <ralsina> hola nessita
[12:54] <nessita> hello everyone!
[12:55] <gatox> nessita, hi
[13:00] <ralsina> me
[13:00] <mandel> me
[13:00] <dobey> meh
[13:01] <ralsina> nessita, alecu, gatox: say me!
[13:01] <gatox> me
[13:02] <nessita> me
[13:02] <mandel> @ping
[13:02] <ubot4> pong
[13:02] <nessita> mandel: go
[13:02] <mandel> we do have a stand up, right?
[13:02] <ralsina> mandel: yes
[13:02] <nessita> yeah, as far as I know
[13:02] <gatox> mandel, yes
[13:02] <nessita> mandel: go!
[13:03] <gatox> ralsina, was first
[13:03] <ralsina> DONE: team call, 1-1 with alecu, started resourcing, moved canonicaladmin queue, doctor's appointment. TODO: finish resourcing, work on hiring, nessita's 1-1, 1-1 with the boss, and so on and so forth. BLOCKED: I am feeling rather sick to my stomach, but hey, I feel just as bad in bed
[13:03] <ralsina> mandel, now
[13:03] <nessita> ralsina: sorry, I did not notice you said me first
[13:04] <ralsina> nessita: no problem!
[13:04] <ralsina> ok, mandel, if you pasted it, it did not work :-)
[13:05] <ralsina> dobey, go
[13:05] <dobey> λ DONE: planning call, discussed release/qa procedure with elopio, collected some notes for process e-mail
[13:05] <dobey> λ TODO: send out process e-mail, banshee/libu1 SRUs, bug #467397?
[13:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 467397 in python2.6 (Ubuntu) (and 6 other projects) "KeyError: 'ROUND_CEiLiNG' when using turkish locale (affects: 16) (dups: 9) (heat: 108)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/467397
[13:05] <dobey> λ BLCK: No.
[13:05] <dobey> gatox: go
[13:05] <gatox> DONE:
[13:05] <gatox> Fixed some branches, Fixed Congratulations page, working on expanduser.
[13:05] <gatox> TODO:
[13:05] <gatox> Finish expanduser, search & destroy ui bugs.
[13:05] <gatox> BLOCKED:
[13:05] <gatox> No
[13:05] <gatox> nessita, go
[13:06] <nessita> DONE: roadmap call, reviews, discovered a couple of IPC bugs in u1client, more on the epic branch for u1sdtool multiplatfofm
[13:06] <nessita> TODO: 1-1 with ralsina, reviews, stable branch for installer, more epic branch
[13:06] <nessita> BLOCKED: no
[13:06] <nessita> NEXT: alecu
[13:06] <nessita> NOTE: I will be attending the design sprint next week, and UDS the nweek after that, so email will be the best way of contact me if I'm not in IRC
[13:06] <ralsina> Maybe there was a confusion about standups in yesterday's call. We'll keep on having standups except the day of the team call. I am estimating you will not waste more than 2 hours a week on administrivia. If you think that's too much, I can give you *my* list ;-)
[13:07] <mobile_> me
[13:07] <ralsina> Also, in the email I sent I mentioned weekly email reports. Those will not be needed, I will do them based on the 1-1s
[13:07] <ralsina> mobile_: ?
[13:07] <dobey> es mandel
[13:08] <mandel1> yes, stupid irc client
[13:08] <ralsina> ok
[13:08] <dobey> rima-tde.net == spain :)
[13:08] <ralsina> aleeeeeeccccccuuuuu alecu!
[13:08] <mandel1> DONE: worked on fixing bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-windows-installer/+bug/878259 added extra tests for the moved code. TODO: propose merges for autoupdate after running tests on N. debug issue on vista. BLOCKED: no
[13:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 878259 in ubuntuone-windows-installer "Fails to start the installer (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed]
[13:09] <mandel1> I don't know why I have issues with the pad irc"..
[13:09] <ralsina> mandel1: because it's evil and proprietary
[13:10] <gatox> mandel, because is mac
[13:10] <gatox> :P
[13:10] <gatox> jeje
[13:10] <gatox> not mac...... but..... you know jeje
[13:10] <mandel1> probably
[13:11] <ralsina> ok, alecu seems to be missing in action, so EOM
[13:11] <mandel1> like our servers, hehehe
[13:11] <ralsina> and if I may say so, the worst standup ever. I think most of you were not even standing.
[13:11] <gatox> jeje
[13:12] <mandel1> ralsina, I was no :P
[13:12] <ralsina> our servers have different freedom capabilities, you insensitive clod!
[13:14] <nessita> ralsina: wasn't alecu taking the morning off?
[13:14] <mandel1> I go back to lunch, I'll be back I'm 10/15 min
[13:15] <ralsina> nessita: right!
[13:15]  * ralsina wishes canonicaladmin would send daily staff rolls
[13:15] <ralsina> of course that would be like, useful, so it's not there
[13:15] <gatox> lol
[13:16] <gatox> nessita, i have a couple of pending reviews
[13:16] <ralsina> gatox: I can do one, probably, if you need it
[13:16] <nessita> gatox: yeah, I'm already with network-detect
[13:16] <nessita> gatox: then I have the 2 you gave me yesterday
[13:16] <gatox> nessita, i fix network-detect..... but i was getting a error with a test for oauth..... not related to my branch :S
[13:17] <gatox> ralsina, yep!!1 i need reviewers..... let me give you one :P
[13:17] <nessita> gatox: need some help?
[13:18] <gatox> ralsina, here is a really small one: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-windows-installer/connect-files/+merge/79611
[13:19] <gatox> nessita, oops..... i commit the test_after_timeout_cache_expires commented.... let me revert that...... i don't know why that test was failing.... i was looking at that
[13:19] <nessita> gatox: ok, let me know
[13:20] <gatox> nessita, if you are free..... and you are not going to review network-detect right now..... can you please review the one for congratulations page?? is really small (sso and installer)
[13:20] <ralsina> gatox, nessita: shouldn't we yield on connect_files so we actually know if it connects correctly?
[13:22] <nessita> ralsina: I think there is no need, there's much we can do at that stage... the controlpanel will try to connect again if not connected
[13:22] <nessita> ralsina: if we'd like to handle not connecting at that point we would need a design for that... may be to much
[13:23] <ralsina> nessita: ok
[13:23] <nessita> ralsina: nevertheless, I can talk this with liseeeete next week
[13:23] <nessita> gatox: connect-files is giving conflict
[13:23] <nessita> Text conflict in ubuntuone_installer/gui/qt/gui.py
[13:23] <nessita> 1 conflicts encountered.
[13:24] <gatox> fixing.....
[13:24] <ralsina> nessita: I think it may be a good idea, because it will prevent weird errors like "None has no get_rootdir attribute" (wouldn't it?)
[13:25] <nessita> ralsina: as far as I see it, it will not prevent those, they will just appear in the installer
[13:25] <ralsina> or is conenct_files to make syncdaemon connect, instead of connecting to syncdaemon>
[13:25] <nessita> ralsina: right, the former
[13:25] <ralsina> oh
[13:25] <ralsina> then no point
[13:25] <nessita> connect == connect a running syncademon to the server
[13:27] <nessita> ralsina: I just read carefully the email "The plan". Seems like it was chopped off at the end, and Chipaca played along :-)
[13:28] <ralsina> Yes, it seems that way :-)
[13:28] <ralsina> I will post a fixed version with added bits
[13:28] <gatox> nessita, ralsina conflict resolved in connect-files
[13:28] <nessita> gatox: ack
[13:29] <ralsina> ack
[13:31] <nessita> gatox: the successfull page sso branch will need fixing.... sso is a project independent from Ubuntu One, so we can't hardcode the name
[13:31] <nessita> gatox: please note that sso is used from software center also, and ideally any other app that wants sso credentials
[13:32] <nessita> gatox: so, the SUCCESS message, should not change, or at least change to:
[13:32] <gatox> nessita, ahhhhh ok
[13:32] <gatox> i'll add a new one
[13:32] <nessita> SUCCESS = _('You are now logged in into %{app_name}s. Congratulations!')
[13:33] <nessita> gatox: you can't hardcode Ubuntu One, not sure if you got that message :-)
[13:33] <gatox> nessita, ahhhhh ok..... sorry..... i took the text as it was in the bug description
[13:33] <nessita> gatox: right, but we need to adapt it a bit according to the project's specifics :-)
[13:34] <nessita> gatox: so, always remember: sso is generic, knows nothing about ubuntu one itself
[13:34] <gatox> nessita, roger that! :P
[13:37] <nessita> ralsina: shall we 1-1?
[13:37] <ralsina> nessita: in 1'
[13:39] <ralsina> nessita: ok, whenever you want, I am in mumble now
[13:39] <nessita> ralsina: I'm trying to connect but is not letting me
[13:40] <nessita> ralsina: the server is closing the connection on me
[13:40] <ralsina> nessita: it's ok, whenever it works. Or I can just... call you
[13:40] <nessita> ralsina: shall we skype?
[13:40] <ralsina> let's skype
[13:41] <ralsina> nessita: you seem offline in skype
[13:41] <nessita> ralsina: I'm nidart.work
[13:41] <nessita> nbidart.work
[13:56] <nessita> gatox: ubuntuone_installer/gui/qt/tests/__init__.py:
[13:56] <nessita>     62:  [C0111, FakeBackend] Missing docstring
[13:56] <gatox> :(
[14:08] <nessita> gatox: I will be doing another review round after lunch, I will switch to monkey coder role now :-)
[14:09] <gatox> nessita, :P ok
[14:41] <gatox> nessita, the test for oauth is working fine now.... maybe was something blocked in my machine and it needed to be restarted
[14:41] <nessita> gatox: what error were you having?
[14:42] <gatox> nessita, also all the branches should be ready now..... i hope without lint issues :S (this weekend i'm going to try to have u1lint working)
[14:42] <gatox> nessita, the test i mentioned earlier was throwing an exception and blocking the process
[14:45] <dobey> meh, i suck at writing e-mail
[14:46] <nessita> dobey: if it's of any consolation, we all do
[14:46] <nessita> gatox: we will get together and get your env properly working
[14:46] <nessita> gatox: this week has been crazy for me with the incoming travel and all
[14:47] <gatox> nessita, yes, i know, no problem..... let me check if i can fix u1lint this weekend, and if i can't i'll let you know next week to see if you can give a  hand
[14:48] <nessita> gatox: well, next week I will be a little far away from your home... but sure ;-)
[14:49] <gatox> nessita, uds?
[14:49] <nessita> gatox: design sprint and UDS, so I will be out for 2 weeks
[14:49] <nessita> gatox: did you read my standup? :-D
[14:49] <gatox> nessita, :P ok...... emmmmm when you get back jeje
[14:50] <mandel> nessita, this guy is ready for a re-review whenever you have the time: https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-windows-installer/fix-reactor-import/+merge/79842
[14:50] <nessita> mandel: ack!
[14:50] <gatox> mandel, you never answer my questionnnnnnnn
[14:50] <gatox> mandel, and here you are :P
[14:51] <gatox> mandel, this is the same branch as yesterday?? i ask because i have another branch that depends on this one.... to keep it up to date
[14:53] <mandel> gatox, oh, wich question? I propbably missed it
[14:53] <mandel> gatox, and yes, is the same branch with some code that has been moved and more tests
[14:54] <gatox> mandel, ahhhhhh ok
[14:55] <dobey> i think i will have to get this e-mail finished up after lunch. my brain is still all over the place after yesterday :-/
[15:13] <dobey> ok, lunch time; bbiab
[15:48] <Reaper> Is there an upload limit in ubuntu 1?
[15:57] <gatox> lunch..... brb
[16:00] <mandel> nessita, ping
[16:01] <nessita> mandel: pong
[16:02] <mandel> nessita, I have a very quick question, in control panel, we are using gi AND pygtk, right?
[16:03] <nessita> mandel: yes, for now
[16:04] <nessita> mandel: I will be migrating that, and very likely removing the GTK UI
[16:04] <mandel> nessita, ok, understood
[16:05] <nessita> mandel: can I help somehow?
[16:05] <mandel> nessita, I had a present for you: http://paste.ubuntu.com/714312/ but then I realized that it would not solve anything because we use pygtk in the widgets :(
[16:06] <nessita> mandel: you made that?
[16:06] <mandel> nessita, I was going to try and propose that for twisted when some changes so that there is not code repetition, but well, other day
[16:06] <mandel> nessita, yes, but based on the gtk2reactor, I'm not THAT smart hehe
[16:07] <mandel> and itamar is not in #twisted so that I could merge it nicely
[16:08] <nessita> mandel: dobey is already working on this, so I would advice talking to him, if you're really interested. On the other hand, I would also advice not to put time ont his, for now...
[16:08] <nessita> mandel: or are you blocked?
[16:08] <mandel> nessita, no, I took some time while watching tv, that is all :)
[16:08] <nessita> mandel: I think you can safely run the tests for the non-ui stuff in isolation?
[16:08] <mandel> nessita, but wanted to try before I EOD, that is all
[16:14] <alecu> hello #ubuntuone!
[16:14] <mandel> alecu, hello!!!
[16:15] <alecu> hi there, mandel!
[16:15] <nessita> hi alecu!
[16:17]  * alecu has sweated more today than in the whole previous year.
[16:17] <dobey> mandel: that pastebin also doesn't even import successfully :)
[16:17] <nessita> alecu: that's goo news! (?)
[16:17] <dobey> mandel: you basically did the exact same thing as someone else did, who proposed it on twisted's trac :)
[16:18] <alecu> on the plus side, I'm almost moved, and starting tomorrow, my office will officially be the back room in my own house.
[16:21] <alecu> gatox, mandel, ralsina: if any of you is having a happy day, doing this review will keep your spirits up: https://code.launchpad.net/~alecu/ubuntu-sso-client/fix-get-token-name/+merge/79594
[16:21] <alecu> if it's not a happy day, it will have no side-effects.
[16:21] <mandel> dobey, it does import correctly, I have tried it :P
[16:22] <mandel> dobey, anyways, it was a 10 min thing while watching tv hehehe
[16:23] <dobey> mandel: well, you got lucky then, because it's point at things that don't exist :)
[16:23] <nessita> alecu: and what about amelia's bedroom? you share? :-)
[16:23] <mandel> dobey, I don't want good generals, I want lucky ones jeje
[16:24] <dobey> heh
[16:24] <alecu> nessita, no, it's Luli's deskroom I'm taking over.
[16:24] <nessita> ah, heh
[16:25] <alecu> nessita, amelia's bedroom is usually a battlefield of plush toys, so it's not easy to work there.
[16:26] <dobey> alecu: more than 3 toys? it must be really boring in there :P
[16:26] <alecu> hahahaha
[16:28] <gatox> alecu, jeje ok on it
[16:34] <dobey> ok, back to e-mail
[16:40] <gatox> alecu, +1
[16:41] <dobey> ugh, this weather sucks
[16:43] <alecu> gatox,   |o|
[16:43] <alecu> (tie fighter)
[16:46] <nessita> alecu: so, when you have some spare time... I'd need your wisdom about twisted.pb. Turns out I found another bug, where the exceptions from the pb server are not being 'forwarded' to the clients
[16:46] <alecu> nessita, now would be a great time
[16:46] <nessita> alecu: I read the doc, and tried some approaches, but I had no luck. Spent quite some time yesterday fighting with this... so I skipped the test and moved on, until you came back
[16:46] <nessita> alecu: nice!
[16:47] <nessita> alecu: can you please branch:
[16:47] <alecu> sure
[16:47] <nessita> lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-client/u1sdtool-multiplatform
[16:47] <nessita> alecu: you can check all is green for you by running, in linux:
[16:47] <nessita> u1trial tests/platform/test_tools.py
[16:48] <nessita> alecu: once that's green on linux, confirm is all green on windows, but with a SKIPPED test
[16:48] <nessita> (JIC, latest revno is 1176)
[16:51] <alecu> nessita, all green in linux. testing windows now
[16:52] <nessita> alecu: so, the SKIPPEd test is  test_rescan_from_scratch_missing_volume. If you un-skip it, you'll get a trace where the exception received is not the expected, but a TypeError. That TypeError is raised from within twisted internals, complaining that the thing raised from the server is a string, which is "a lie"
[16:53] <nessita> alecu: since the exception is raised from: ubuntuone/syncdaemon/interaction_interfaces.py:1282
[16:56] <nessita> alecu: oh, I'll be back in a few minutes, I'm at my mother in law's and she's screaming the lunch is ready :-D
[16:56] <nessita> brb!
[17:02] <alecu> nessita, on windows I'm getting a lot of these: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/714368/
[17:02] <alecu> on the "interaction_ifaces" module
[17:07] <Reaper> I am trying to send a iso into ubuntuone and its not working.. any ideas.. its it too big?
[17:07] <Reaper> the iso is under 5 gigs.
[17:08] <dobey> phew, finally "done" with that mail
[17:08] <dobey> Reaper: i have uploaded ISOs just fine.
[17:09] <Reaper> hmm i think its user error then
[17:09] <Reaper> lol
[17:09] <Reaper> I tested a txt file and got that just fine
[17:10] <dobey> Reaper: if it's not uploading, it could be network, server, or client issues. but i can't really say without knowing the logs. i can tell you that our servers are *very* busy right now though, with oneiric having just been released :)
[17:10] <Reaper> yeah, thats what ive heard
[17:10] <dobey> and there is a bug or two in the client, for which fixes which are being worked on at the moment, that we hope to get out to oneiric in the next couple weeks (SRUs take at least 7 days to get out)
[17:11] <Reaper> ahh
[17:11] <dobey> do you have a ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon-exceptions.log ?
[17:13] <dobey> hrmm, i need to get my laptop fixed
[17:17] <Reaper> not sure, ill have to take a look at it
[17:17] <dobey> wtf; now network magically works again on my laptop
[17:17] <Reaper> I love when that happens
[17:18] <nessita> alecu: back
[17:18] <dobey> yeah, i upgraded to oneiric on it, and it stopped working
[17:18] <nessita> alecu: can you just run the test_tools tests?
[17:18] <dobey> spent 3 days trying to figure out what it was and how i could get it updated as there were pending updates still
[17:18] <dobey> shut it off for 2 weeks, and it suddenly works again
[17:18] <Reaper> lol and now it works. that awesome lol
[17:18] <beuno> Reaper, we are having some issues with our servers
[17:19] <beuno> so that's probably the cause
[17:19] <Reaper> thats what I was thinking. I tested a text file earlier today and that went through so ill just hang tight till the servers calm down.
[17:19] <dobey> Reaper: just to check, run this in a terminal please: "grep ValueError ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon*"
[17:19] <Reaper> k 1 sec
[17:20] <dobey> Reaper: if you see "ValueError: I/O error..." type message, you're also hitting one of the known bugs we're working on a fix for :)
[17:20] <Reaper> ahh got cha
[17:22] <Reaper> yep, getting alot of those errors
[17:22] <dobey> now if i could just get the UI back to how i had it, on my laptop (which i guess isn't going to happen with gnome3) :-/
[17:22] <dobey> Reaper: restarting syncdaemon might help with that: u1sdtool -q; u1sdtool -c
[17:23] <dobey> Reaper: but if you put a big iso in there again, it will likely crop up again
[17:24] <Reaper> says its being uploaded now
[17:24] <Reaper> but its said that before.. its about 991mb
[17:26] <dobey> yeah, the notification will pop up again if you get reconnected, too
[17:27] <Reaper> got cha, its nothing big. was just stoked about trying that svc and was freakin because I couldnt get it to work. Just wanted to make sure I wasnt completely retarded lol
[17:28] <dobey> unfortunately it does seem to be our fault. but hopefully we can have a fix soon
[17:29] <nessita> alecu: let me know when you're back
[17:31] <Reaper> eh, it happens lol
[18:43] <nessita> alecu: ping?
[18:43] <alecu> nessita, pong
[18:43] <nessita> alecu: hey there, sorry for leaving in the middle of the debugging, not sure if you receive my latest messages
[18:44] <alecu> nessita, no problem, I disappeared for a bit too.
[18:44] <alecu> nessita, I'm still trying to follow the code
[18:44] <nessita> alecu: i was saying, could you just run the tests/platform/test_tools.py in windows? that should be all green
[18:44] <alecu> nessita, and I'm not sure at what point the error is being transformed into string.
[18:44] <alecu> nessita, I've run that, and now I'
[18:45] <alecu> I've commented the skip
[18:45] <alecu> nessita, and it shows an error where the exception comes as a string
[18:45] <alecu> nessita, so I'm trying to understand at what point the exception is translated into a string
[18:46] <nessita> alecu: me neither. I read the doc and it said that the exceptions being raised from the pb server should inherit from pb.Error. I did that, I created a new error inheriting from that class, and added a decorator (not in the branch) so every remote method catches everything and raises the specific error, but no luck
[18:51] <alecu> nessita, I'm reading the PB tutorial, and it says exactly what you say:
[18:51] <alecu> http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/core/howto/pb-usage.html#auto4
[18:51] <nessita> alecu: yeah, I may have done something wrong... but I couldn't find what
[18:52] <nessita> alecu: anyways, the doc gives an example where even if you raise a non pb.Error exception, the exception is indeed forwarded to the client, but ugly messages appear server side
[18:52] <nessita> alecu: so that puzzles me a lot
[18:52] <alecu> yup, some message should be shown in the log in that case
[18:53] <nessita> alecu: maybe one of the decorators that mandel added are stringyfing that?
[18:54] <nessita> alecu: I looked, and my eyes found nothing, but yours may?
[18:57] <alecu> nessita, I can't see anything wrong neither. I'm looking at both RemoteMeta and signal, the two places with meta-magic, and it's not being done there.
[18:58] <nessita> alecu: I'm thinking skipping this test and filing a bug, for now, if you don't see anything popping up. This has been "broken" the same until now, can remain like this a bit longer
[19:00] <alecu> nessita, I'm fine with that, since it's not something that your branch breaks
[19:00] <nessita> right
[19:00] <nessita> alecu: thanks for your time/eyes!
[19:01] <alecu> nessita, I'll keep looking a bit more
[19:01] <alecu> nessita, no problem. Sorry if I was a little more sleepy than usual :-)
[19:01] <nessita> alecu: -)
[19:01] <nessita> :-)
[19:04] <gatox> ok, EOD for me... see you tomorrow... or later :P
[19:10] <alecu> nessita, I'm pdbing the code, and it seems that it *gets* into """log.msg("Peer will receive following PB traceback:"...."""
[19:10] <nessita> alecu: wtf?
[19:11] <nessita> alecu: how's that possible?
[19:14] <alecu> nessita, perhaps the twisted logs are not enabled on this tests. Or something like that.
[19:29] <alecu> nessita, I've added "from twisted.python import log;import sys;log.startLogging(sys.stderr)" before that test starts. Here's the result: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/714507/
[19:33] <nessita> alecu: I don't see a str cast there, do you?
[19:35] <alecu> i do not see it either.
[19:35] <alecu> but it looks like what the pb docs say
[19:38] <alecu> nessita, the thing that I don't understand...
[19:38] <alecu> nessita, why do we have some errors as signals (ie, RootMismatch, QuotaExceeded), and some other errors as exceptions? (VolumeDoesNotExist, etc)
[19:40] <nessita> alecu: the signals you mention, in particular, are not 'errors' but 'states' (por llamarlo de alguna forma)
[19:40] <nessita> alecu: despite that, we can't have signal for every error
[19:40] <alecu> nessita, InvalidName, BrokenNode are signals too
[19:40] <alecu> (on a different object, though)
[19:41] <nessita> alecu: yeah, but my point is what if we have an IOError, an outofmem error, whatever unxpected signal
[19:41] <nessita> alecu: I would like to know that would be propagated to the caller, if unhandled
[19:41] <nessita> alecu: so, we can certainly handle this specific case in the server side
[19:41] <nessita> but worries me that the exceptions are not 'forwarded'
[19:42] <alecu> nessita, right.
[19:42] <dobey> ugh, i can't remove multiple packages at once in software-center
[19:42] <alecu> nessita, but the thing with signals is that they can be "async"
[19:42] <alecu> nessita, if I'm returning the error as an exception, it needs to be fast
[19:43] <alecu> (kinda)
[19:43] <dobey> nessita: isn't there a "GenericError" signal on the main object or something, that just gives you all errors on a dbus signal?
[19:43] <alecu> so, that's really the main difference.
[19:43] <nessita> alecu: not sure what that difference is
[19:43] <nessita> dobey: this is windows IPC side...
[19:44] <dobey> nessita: oh, does it not have the same interface as the dbus service?
[19:44] <alecu> nessita, the difference is related to the timeouts we discussed the other day.
[19:45] <alecu> dobey, it should be pretty similar
[19:45] <nessita> dobey: I'm refactoring it so interfaces matches. But ATM, exceptions are not being sent from server to client
[19:45] <nessita> alecu: right
[19:47] <dobey> nessita: ah. well on linux there is a genericerror signal or something, right?
[19:48] <nessita> dobey: yes and no... this specific case was throwing a DBusException
[19:48] <alecu> nessita, so, we should either: a) subclass all exceptions as pb requires. Or b) catch every exception and match it against a list of known exceptions in each function's decorator, and wrap those exceptions in a pb exception.
[19:49] <alecu> nessita, b) sounds way over the top, so we should find a cleanish way to do a)
[19:49] <dobey> nessita: the server was getting a dbusexception from something else? or what?
[19:50] <nessita> alecu: I tried the (b) approach, and even when raising a pb.Error, the TypeError still remains, that's the puzzle
[19:50] <alecu> nessita, I'd love to see *that* branch
[19:50] <alecu> nessita, but first I need to pick up amelia.
[19:50] <nessita> alecu: you can try it yourself: inside the ubuntuone/platform/windows/ipc.py, in rescan_from_scratch, raise a pb.Error('foo')
[19:50] <nessita> alecu: ah, ok, later then
[19:51] <alecu> nessita, good point, I'll try that. thanks!
[19:52] <nessita> dobey: not sure what you ask. When I say server I was referring to the dbus server side... and yes, any unhandled exception in our dbus (and lower) layers will send a dbusexception
[19:52] <dobey> ok, some cake for me, and then poking at tcole's branch
[21:13] <dobey> have a good evening all!
[21:50]  * nessita ->eod
[21:50] <nessita> see ya tomorrow crowd!