[09:28] <ybaumy> is juju working with foreman?
[09:28] <ybaumy> if so how?
[12:41] <erik_lonroth> Does anyone know if "swift" + "swift-proxy" can be deployed on a single server (with lxd) I would like to try it out but I only have a single machine for it.
[14:45] <ybaumy> anyone here
[14:45] <ybaumy> is it possible to integrate juju and foreman
[14:51] <rick_h> ybaumy: nothing that the team itself is working on atm
[14:51] <rick_h> ybaumy: not sure if there's ways of making that work together. I've not looked into it myself.
[14:52] <rick_h> erik_lonroth: hmm, not sure. might just give it a go and see. I'd guess that the biggest thing would be getting the proxy on the network for folks to reach out to. Might have to do something like put the proxy on the main host and the swift into a container?
[17:43] <erik_lonroth> rick_h: I'm doing some googling and found https://piware.de/2014/03/creating-a-local-swift-server-on-ubuntu-for-testing/ - but it seems the "setup-swift.sh" files (guy) has left the server...
[17:43] <erik_lonroth> (content is gone)
[17:50] <erik_lonroth> rick_h: Another hit on google is this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/85868/has-anyone-deployed-swift-in-an-openstack-environment-using-juju
[17:51] <erik_lonroth> However, its not clear to me how I should create the storage needed for the configuration of the juju deploy.
[17:52] <erik_lonroth> I'll try figure it out myself, but all help apprechiated
[18:58] <erik_lonroth> Hmm, seems lxc wont allow me per default to mount loop devices which is being created by the swift-storage charm. Any idea as how to resolve that easily?
[19:16] <bdx> erik_lonroth: probably something along these lines http://blog.forshee.me/2016/02/container-mounts-in-ubuntu-1604.html
[19:16] <erik_lonroth> bdx: I'm looking
[19:19] <erik_lonroth> bdx: I think id rather just turn the container into a privileged one?
[19:19] <erik_lonroth> after all I'm testing
[19:20] <bdx> totally ... open it wide up and see if you are still hitting the issue
[19:26] <erik_lonroth> Nope, it didnt work or perhaps a reboot of the container would be needed ?
[19:30] <bdx> hmmm
[19:30] <bdx> possibly
[19:30] <bdx> worth a shot
[19:30] <bdx> cory_fu: how's it going?
[19:31] <bdx> cory_fu: whats he best way to get the latest release of charms.reactive into my charm? if it isnt released to pypi yet
[19:31] <bdx> ?


[12:01] <mdke> hi all
[12:01] <Burgundavia> salut
[12:01] <mdke> hi corey
[12:02] <mdke> got a moment to teach me xml?
[12:02] <mdke> i'm looking through the quickguide to try and pick it up
[12:03] <mdke> <!-- is a comment?
[12:04] <mdke> if so, why is that bit on sounders and arrays commented out?
[12:05] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:06] <Burgundavia> if you have done any html, docbook xml is similar
[12:06] <mdke> yeah it looks easy
[12:08] <mdke> hi tshark7
[12:08] <tshark7> hi
[12:09] <tshark7> i'm new to irc, just looking around
[12:09] <Burgundavia> salut
[12:09] <mdke> welcome
[12:09] <Burgundavia> they channel is for discussing ubuntu documentation
[12:09] <Burgundavia> s/they/this
[12:10] <Burgundavia> tshark7: you might also want to check out #ubuntu, #ubuntu-devel, #ubuntu-motu
[12:10] <Burgundavia> #ubuntu-devel is for development
[12:10] <Burgundavia> #ubuntu-motu is for the universe and multiverse component of Ubuntu
[12:10] <mdke> and also #ubuntu-2digitlanguagecode :)
[12:11] <Burgundavia> except ubuntu-ca
[12:11] <Burgundavia> which is Canada and not catalan
[12:11] <mdke> you stole it?
[12:11] <mdke> cheeky
[12:11] <Burgundavia> I didn't
[12:11] <mdke> you (pl)
[12:12] <tshark7> ok, thanks
[12:13] <mdke> On s el bany?
[06:08] <jsgotangco> wow the artwork changed the whole thing
[06:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:09] <Burgundavia> see my note to the list
[06:09] <jsgotangco> i replied to it after reverting my settings to default on everything
[06:09] <Burgundavia> both are sabdfl
[06:10] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[06:37] <Burgundavia> sorry
[06:37] <Burgundavia> on the phone with the ex
[06:37] <Burgundavia> anyway, good posts by nick and mary
[06:40] <jsgotangco> who leads/coordinates with thedevelopers? mdz?
[06:42] <Burgundavia> nobody really
[06:42] <Burgundavia> mdz and maybe jdub follow the list
[06:44] <Burgundavia> maybe we should have someone to coordinate
[06:44] <Burgundavia> there is a reason I run almost default
[06:44] <Burgundavia> the only default I don't have is the login screen
[06:44] <jsgotangco> hmmm i think i should be default as well to document correctly from now on
[06:45] <Burgundavia> I have tobacco sky
[06:45] <jsgotangco> haha same here!
[06:45] <Burgundavia> I want to see wha the average user has
[06:45] <Burgundavia> tobacco is very nice
[06:45] <Burgundavia> a nice calm screen
[06:48] <jsgotangco> the average user would probaby have circle of friends
[06:49] <jsgotangco> because the default ubuntu gdm isnt that nice
[06:49] <jsgotangco> but i could be wrong
[06:51] <jsgotangco> oh froud recommended me for a commit account
[06:51] <jsgotangco> that is *nice*
[06:52] <Burgundavia> cool
[06:52] <Burgundavia> committ is very useful
[07:05] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you still there?
[07:07] <jsgotangco> aye
[07:07] <Burgundavia> can you confirm something?
[07:07] <Burgundavia> can you double click on an svg file?
[07:08] <jsgotangco> wait
[07:08] <jsgotangco> it opens firefox
[07:08] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:08] <jsgotangco> and asks if i want to download it
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I will file a bug
[07:08] <Burgundavia> FF can't open it
[07:08] <jsgotangco> sure it cant
[07:08] <jsgotangco> oohh
[07:09] <jsgotangco> i have inkscape though
[07:09] <jsgotangco> where should an svg open?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> in eog
[07:09] <Burgundavia> and inkscape if you have it
[07:10] <jsgotangco> FF did notice i have inkscape though
[07:10] <Burgundavia> ff did
[07:29] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: what happens when you insert a music cd in the drive?
[07:29] <Burgundavia> does it autoplay?
[07:29] <Burgundavia> if you double click on the icon, does it start gnome-cd?
[07:30] <jsgotangco> let me check
[07:31] <jsgotangco> i had autoplay with CD Player
[07:31] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:31] <Burgundavia> close the cd player
[07:31] <Burgundavia> and double click on the icon
[07:32] <jsgotangco> it didnt play and opened hdc instead
[07:32] <jsgotangco> file browser
[07:32] <Burgundavia> probably should open the cd player, eh?
[07:33] <jsgotangco> *grin* it did show wav files but when i clicked on the files i got errors as well
[07:33] <Burgundavia> and it paused playback for me
[07:55] <froud> African Greetings
[07:55] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:55] <froud> hi
[07:55] <Burgundavia> seen my recent thread?
[07:56] <jsgotangco> greetings
[07:58] <froud> Burgundavia: yes, glad somebody else is screaming this time and not me :-)
[07:59] <Burgundavia> froud: I wondered what your reaction was going to be
[07:59] <froud> I did ask mdz and developers to update us to GUI changes
[07:59] <Burgundavia> to be honest, yours was the one I place the most weight on
[07:59] <froud> but as usual developers just ignore doc team
[07:59] <Burgundavia> bah
[07:59] <Burgundavia> very frustrated
[07:59] <froud> nedd to think how to handle this
[08:01] <froud> Let me first speak with mdz, sabfl and mako
[08:01] <froud> it is done now
[08:01] <froud> no point us making a big issue
[08:01] <froud> but we need to address it for future
[08:01] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:02] <Burgundavia> I was mostly concerned for Breezy
[08:02] <froud> I think it is part of the learning process, on all sides
[08:02] <froud> like our recent escapade with i18n
[08:02] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[08:04] <jsgotangco> the new artwork is nice though
[08:04] <Burgundavia> yes it is
[08:04] <Burgundavia> gotten used to the new brown
[08:04] <froud> yes
[08:04] <jsgotangco> i will stick to default from now
[08:04] <froud> we always dcoument by default
[08:05] <froud> Burgundavia: I am not sure that the change makes everything bad
[08:05] <Burgundavia> which change? the spatial one?
[08:06] <froud> the main screen of the application is the important think
[08:06] <froud> thing
[08:06] <Burgundavia> have you read the comments at #8516
[08:06] <Burgundavia> some good ones
[08:06] <froud> yes
[08:06] <Burgundavia> including one from a disabled guy
[08:06] <froud> but GNOME moved to spatial a long time ago
[08:06] <Burgundavia> but not this kind of spatial
[08:06] <Burgundavia> closing windows behind
[08:07] <froud> sure it is different
[08:07] <Burgundavia> and that is what the patch does
[08:07] <froud> but how does spatial or not impact on the quick guide
[08:07] <Burgundavia> quickguide is impacted by colour change
[08:07] <Burgundavia> release notes are impacted by spatial change
[08:08] <Burgundavia> because we should mention it
[08:08] <froud> the color change is not that much a problem
[08:08] <Burgundavia> not really
[08:08] <Burgundavia> but it makes us look unprofessional, IMHO
[08:08] <froud> the spatial change should be mentioned, but is not critical
[08:08] <jsgotangco> it can be a source of cons for the release
[08:09] <jsgotangco> those who like to nitpick
[08:09] <froud> I agree they should inform us
[08:09] <Burgundavia> spatial change also introduces a whole bunch of corner cases
[08:09] <froud> but I am trying to say that it is not as bad as first made out
[08:09] <Burgundavia> I don't really object to the option
[08:09] <Burgundavia> just no easy way to turn off
[08:10] <froud> we need to under the extent of the problem
[08:10] <Burgundavia> all in all, not a major issue
[08:10] <Burgundavia> just kind of annoying
[08:11] <Burgundavia> to me, both feel very top down decision making
[08:12] <froud> Burgundavia: agreed
[08:12] <Burgundavia> which is not the greatest for building a community distro
[08:12] <Burgundavia> it is fine if someone steps in a makes a decision after a contentious debate
[08:13] <Burgundavia> to me, that is the point of a sabdfl
[08:13] <froud> I will speak to him
[08:15] <froud> dunno if anyone noticed but ubuntu device database was also added late
[08:15] <froud> I wrote documents for it, but did not add it to the quick guide
[08:15] <jsgotangco> bbl x reboot
[08:15] <Burgundavia> device database is pretty minor though
[08:15] <Burgundavia> and is not really ready for primetime
[08:15] <froud> yes, but quick guide is a tour
[08:16] <Burgundavia> true
[08:16] <froud> I decided not to make a stink of it
[08:16] <Burgundavia> hadn't thought about it
[08:17] <froud> I did not want to say much because I did lots of moaning about svn and this is the result
[08:17] <froud> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/latest.html#10
[08:18] <Burgundavia> hey, it got publicity
[08:18] <jsgotangco> spatial really is something
[08:22] <froud> Burgundavia: yeah, like that was really what needed publicity
[08:22] <Burgundavia> lol
[08:22] <Burgundavia> but seriously, that didn't really need to be aired
[08:22] <jsgotangco> ummm did i miss something?
[08:23] <Burgundavia> our mailing lists seem to have 2 modes
[08:23] <Burgundavia> 1. dicussing something big
[08:23] <Burgundavia> 2. no traffic
[08:23] <froud> yes, I moned about that too and got nowhere
[08:23] <froud> moaned
[08:23] <Burgundavia> hey
[08:23] <Burgundavia> the quickguide is great looking
[08:24] <froud> not bad for our first job
[08:24] <froud> Burgundavia: are you updating inline with the development branch
[08:24] <Burgundavia> now if we can come to a consensus of the web portal
[08:24] <Burgundavia> froud: sorry, I don't understand
[08:25] <froud> do you run updates against the development branch
[08:25] <Burgundavia> I currently am only tracking trunk
[08:25] <froud> daily weekly month online updates
[08:26] <froud> if you run synaptic against the development version you will get updates sooner
[08:26] <froud> For the next release we will all need to change our sources list
[08:26] <froud> in apt
[08:27] <froud> this means the system may become unstable
[08:27] <Burgundavia> true
[08:27] <Burgundavia> sorry, I am still failing to understand you
[08:27] <Burgundavia> it almost certainly my fault
[08:27] <froud> in apt sources are your updates comming from warty or hoary?
[08:28] <Burgundavia> hoary
[08:28] <froud> ok
[08:28] <Burgundavia> I left warty in late Sept.
[08:28] <Burgundavia> and shall leave hoary as soon as the Breezy repos open
[08:28] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[08:28] <froud> yeah, now we will have to change sources.list
[08:28] <Burgundavia> make that Late oct
[08:28] <jsgotangco> i wish i had another pc to test stuff
[08:28] <froud> must take my daughters to school
[08:28] <froud> brb
[08:29] <Burgundavia> np
[08:29] <jsgotangco> how soon do you think we need to change sources?
[08:29] <Burgundavia> whenever you want to
[08:30] <Burgundavia> as I said, I plan to jump as soon as Breezy opens
[08:31] <jsgotangco> hmmm ok but we'll risk breaking things
[08:31] <Burgundavia> yes we will
[08:31] <Burgundavia> that is fun
[08:31] <jsgotangco> i better save for a shuttle pc
[08:31] <jsgotangco> its hard if youre unemployed though *grin*
[08:32] <Burgundavia> I am also unemployed
[08:32] <jsgotangco> how do i check the translated docs?
[08:37] <froud> back
[08:38] <froud> translated docs in the new release
[08:38] <Burgundavia> how old are your kids?
[08:38] <froud> 3 of them
[08:38] <froud> 11, 6 and 4
[08:38] <jsgotangco> i have a 3 year old
[08:38] <froud> boy, girl, girl
[08:38] <Burgundavia> bah kids
[08:39] <froud> Burgundavia: your turn will come
[08:39] <froud> kids are the best
[08:39] <jsgotangco> hehehe yes resistance is futile
[08:39] <Burgundavia> that is what scares me
[08:39] <jsgotangco> indeed
[08:39] <jsgotangco> i got married at 27
[08:39] <jsgotangco> became a dad at 28
[08:39] <froud> when your partner feels her hip bones pulling apart you know you are in for kids
[08:40] <jsgotangco> kids are expensive though hehe
[08:40] <froud> jsgotangco: married 13 years and loving it
[08:40] <Burgundavia> just broke up with a gf of 2 years
[08:40] <froud> yes but worth it
[08:40] <froud> Burgundavia: ouch 2 years are the hard ones
[08:41] <Burgundavia> we are still good friends
[08:42] <froud> yeah until you meet somebody new
[08:43] <Burgundavia> true
[08:43] <jsgotangco> like being in between 2 boulders
[08:43] <Burgundavia> anybody else having issues with totem and gnome cd-player being unstable?
[08:44] <froud> dunno I run KDE
[08:44] <froud> come to kde
[08:44] <jsgotangco> my gnome cd-player clips audio but i only tested 1 cd
[08:44] <jsgotangco> im seriously considering kubuntu though
[08:44] <Burgundavia> bah KDE
[08:44] <froud> kde is strong in EU
[08:44] <froud> gnome in US
[08:44] <Burgundavia> I am going to reinstall after Hoary releases
[08:45] <Burgundavia> don't trust this upgraded box
[08:45] <froud> jsgotangco: just get the new iso and burn a cd
[08:45] <Burgundavia> I am going to make a list of things that don't work
[08:45] <Burgundavia> and if they still don't work after reinstall, then I am going to hammer bugzilla
[08:45] <Burgundavia> and make seb128 happy
[08:46] <froud> yes bugzilla is the palce
[08:46] <Burgundavia> seb and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things
[08:47] <froud> nor do many others
[08:47] <jsgotangco> i really wish i could get work similar to what im doing here and more (test stuff, break, etc.)
[08:47] <froud> :-)
[08:47] <Burgundavia> are you saying that I am hard to get along with?
[08:47] <froud> not you seb
[08:47] <froud> :-)
[08:47] <froud> you are fine
[08:48] <Burgundavia> I think a lot of it is language barrier
[08:48] <froud> well, once I understood that I am looking at a mirror of myself
[08:48] <Burgundavia> when I spoke more French, I sounded rude
[08:48] <Burgundavia> as I was at that level of fluency
[08:48] <Burgundavia> can ask for things, but not politely
[08:48] <froud> he he stick to en
[08:49] <Burgundavia> my French is mostly gone now
[08:49] <Burgundavia> amazing how in 2 years you can go from functional to nothing
[08:49] <froud> yeah like my German
[08:49] <froud> my Hebrew is still OK cause my wife and I make a point of speaking it
[08:50] <jsgotangco> id like to study an eu language in the future
[08:50] <jsgotangco> we used to have spanish but that was in high school an nobody took it seriously
[08:51] <jsgotangco> in college i had latin but who the hell speaks it except the vatican
[08:51] <froud> Hmm I have three people who want restructure in trunk and I know of three that dont
[08:51] <froud> the pope is dead
[08:51] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:51] <Burgundavia> that happened several days ago
[08:51] <froud> Oh
[08:51] <froud> well you see I am outof touch
[08:51] <jsgotangco> yes, as a catholic it is sad :( ive seen the pope twice
[08:52] <froud> what does the real-world look k=like
[08:53] <Burgundavia> Prince Ranier III of Monaco also just died
[08:53] <Burgundavia> as well as Johnny Cochrane, famous for defending OJ
[08:53] <froud> Hmm the whole world is passing away
[08:53] <Burgundavia> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5358436389.html
[08:54] <jsgotangco> at least Ranier will be with grace kelly again
[08:54] <Burgundavia> cool
[08:55] <jsgotangco> OshKosh truck?
[08:55] <jsgotangco> isnt that a kids apparel brand?
[08:55] <froud> he he
[08:55] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh
[08:56] <Burgundavia> seems it stands for a few things
[08:57] <froud> Burgundavia: well matt has given you an answer
[08:57] <Burgundavia> oh?
[08:57] <Burgundavia> which matt? mdz or of tsf?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> A deliberate effort was made to get the artwork sorted earlier in the
[08:58] <jsgotangco> release cycle, but deadlines were unfortunately missed.  I regret if this
[08:58] <jsgotangco> has resulted in diminished satisfaction with the documentation.
[08:58] <jsgotangco> Artwork has turned out to be a source of more interdependencies than we
[08:58] <jsgotangco> anticipated.  What can we do for the next release cycle to improve the
[08:58] <jsgotangco> workflow?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> mdz
[08:58] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:58] <Burgundavia> I see the email now
[08:59] <Burgundavia> froud, mdz is not in here
[08:59] <Burgundavia> to me, what would be nice would be prior warning
[09:00] <Burgundavia> ie: artwork changes are coming in breezy
[09:00] <Burgundavia> this is where we are at
[09:00] <Burgundavia> this is the expected done date
[09:01] <froud> unlike other development functions documentation touches on and relies on communition with many functions
[09:01] <froud> we need to interface with all functions
[09:01] <froud> at present we dont
[09:01] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:01] <froud> we have rough interfaces with i18n and devel
[09:02] <froud> seems we need artwork interface also
[09:02] <Burgundavia> I am writing a response
[09:02] <Burgundavia> I will dump here so we can critique
[09:02] <froud> sure
[09:03] <jsgotangco> ok just dump away ill brb i have a guest downstairs
[09:05] <Burgundavia> For me, knowledge is the most important thing. To simply be officially informed that artwork changes are coming, and what they are expected to touch (login screen, theme, icons, etc.). This would allow us to plan when to take the screenshots and when to wait. Ideally, feedback could also come back from us, most especially with regards to timing. If the artwork slips too much, then we run into a major crunch for time. Screens
[09:05] <Burgundavia> hots cannot be easily translated, and thus must be taken by hand currently. I am not asking for a veto, but just have a vote as a team when and if the slips happen.
[09:06] <froud> seems fair
[09:06] <Burgundavia> now that is some nice-Ubuntu style colours --> http://eh.net/deaconecon/archives/38-Economists-Say-the-Darnest-Things.html
[09:06] <Burgundavia> froud: anything you would add?
[09:07] <froud> cant think of anything yet
[09:07] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:07] <Burgundavia> should I send?
[09:07] <froud> sure put it in open and lets see
[09:10] <Burgundavia> done
[09:12] <froud> Burgundavia: what email client do you use?
[09:13] <Burgundavia> gmail
[09:13] <Burgundavia> is it borking things?
[09:13] <Burgundavia> they just changed the interfact
[09:13] <Burgundavia> is it sending HTML?
[09:13] <froud> no it is just that it does not indent bottom posts correctly
[09:13] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:13] <Burgundavia> it doesn't do bottom posts
[09:13] <froud> ah that is why
[09:13] <Burgundavia> by default, it does top
[09:58] <jsgotangco> wa? sorry was afk for a while
[10:12] <Burgundavia> good comment from mattew
[10:25] <Burgundavia> salut Skywind
[10:26] <Skywind> hi, Burgundavia
[10:26] <Burgundavia> never seen you here before
[10:31] <Kinnison> Morning all
[10:31] <froud> morn
[10:33] <Burgundavia> salut Kinnison
[10:43] <froud> Burgundavia: sent my response
[10:43] <Burgundavia> reading it now
[10:44] <jsgotangco> bravo!
[10:44] <froud> jsgotangco: bravo that was brave or bravo it is a good response?
[10:45] <froud> chaps the applications.menu is xml
[10:45] <jsgotangco> it was a very good response we dont need to be in a fighting stance on this issue
[10:45] <froud> I think I can use xslt to build and update menus
[10:45] <froud> for both GNOME and KDE
[10:46] <Burgundavia> I saw that
[10:46] <froud> It helps us keep updated to menu changes and gives us earlier warning
[10:47] <froud> I will see what what I can do
[10:47] <froud> do either of you write xslt?
[10:48] <Burgundavia> nope
[10:48] <froud> :-( Ok well I must go back to work
[10:49] <froud> c ya later
[11:08] <jsgotangco> ok what did i miss
[11:08] <jsgotangco> i was playing around with a dlt drive
[11:08] <Burgundavia> not much
[11:08] <Burgundavia> bah
[11:08] <Burgundavia> we need better media docs
[11:09] <Burgundavia> like how to install stuff (w32codecs)
[11:09] <jsgotangco> but theyre not supported!
[11:09] <froud-work> FAQ Guide and User Guide
[11:09] <Burgundavia> so
[11:09] <Burgundavia> not supported doesn't not mean that people don't use them
[11:09] <Burgundavia> and the existing docs are crack
[11:10] <froud-work> Burgundavia: r you gonna work on FAQ Guide
[11:10] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[11:10] <jsgotangco> but the official guide should not have instructions about these things
[11:10] <jsgotangco> it can be on the wiki though
[11:10] <froud-work> Good. Now for restructure where do you want to do it
[11:10] <jsgotangco> that is my opinion
[11:10] <Burgundavia> I don't know enough about the 2 different methods to make a rational choice
[11:11] <Burgundavia> I want one source for docs, ours
[11:12] <Burgundavia> I spend a lot of time talking and helping on #ubuntu
[11:13] <Burgundavia> I think I have it figured out what we need to focus on
[11:14] <froud-work> Burgundavia: our docs
[11:14] <froud-work> wiki or svn
[11:14] <froud-work> ?
[11:14] <Burgundavia> everything in one place for starters
[11:14] <Burgundavia> and a good 1st boot howto
[11:14] <Burgundavia> and walkthrough
[11:14] <Burgundavia> bringing elements of quickguide
[11:15] <froud-work> that is why we have FAQ and User Guide
[11:15] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:15] <froud-work> what bother sme most is the spread of the effort
[11:15] <froud-work> people are working all over
[11:15] <froud-work> if they work in one place it is easier
[11:15] <jsgotangco> i believe there must be a logical flow of how these documents meld together
[11:16] <jsgotangco> especially for a new user
[11:16] <Burgundavia> there should be
[11:16] <Burgundavia> and 1st boot howto should be the 1st thing they see and need
[11:16] <jsgotangco> at the moment its the wild wild west
[11:16] <Burgundavia> ubuntuguide.org is nice, but doesn't really do things the ubuntu way
[11:16] <Burgundavia> unfortunately, it has mindshare and is done
[11:17] <froud-work> I have asked the author to please join and work with us
[11:17] <froud-work> I wait for reposnse
[11:17] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:17] <Burgundavia> he just reappeared
[11:17] <jsgotangco> what he say
[11:17] <Burgundavia> and has created ubuntuguide.org/temp
[11:17] <Burgundavia> for hoary
[11:17] <froud-work> he did not know about our svn effort
[11:17] <Burgundavia> the instructions on there, it took me a hour to cleanup somebodies machine
[11:18] <froud-work> FAQ Guide in svn is in docbook faq format
[11:18] <froud-work> plovs spent lots of time moving it to docbook and I spent lots of time using docbook faq
[11:18] <Burgundavia> I still need to take a good look at tit
[11:18] <froud-work> please do
[11:20] <Burgundavia> we now have a big issue with the wiki
[11:20] <Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AddingRepositoriesHowto
[11:20] <Burgundavia> is warty
[11:21] <Burgundavia> so a hoary user just came along and changed all his sources to warty
[11:21] <Burgundavia> I am now sorting it out
[11:22] <froud-work> well this is why we want everyting in svn and the documentation to be made from there
[11:22] <Burgundavia> I agree with you now
[11:22] <froud-work> funny how people only realize what I am saying when they actually feel it
[11:22] <froud-work> :-)
[11:22] <Burgundavia> I never said I didn't want to have a single source
[11:22] <Burgundavia> we just disagreed on which one
[11:23] <froud-work> no not you specifically
[11:23] <froud-work> geeze you r touchy today
[11:23] <froud-work> :-)
[11:23] <Burgundavia> if we get this portal off the ground, we will have the best docs, bar none
[11:23] <froud-work> absolutely
[11:36] <jsgotangco> its logical after all to have wiki and xml docs to be in one version control right
[11:41] <Burgundavia> what package in the dictionary panel applet in?
[11:44] <Kinnison> gnome-utils
[11:46] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: thanks
[11:55] <jsgotangco> oh its a public holiday on the 1st day of UDU
[11:55] <jsgotangco> anzac day
[11:55] <jsgotangco> nice
[11:56] <jsgotangco> i will be doing my work in eSvn now
[11:56] <jsgotangco> it makes things much easier
[11:57] <jsgotangco> and i see the status of the docs
[11:57] <jsgotangco> as well as the commit logs
[11:57] <Burgundavia> any gtk apps like eSVN?
[11:57] <Burgundavia> I tend to be a desktop purist
[11:57] <Burgundavia> gtk2 or nothing
[11:59] <jsgotangco> i dont know, i thank froud for learning so much at the moment but i have started experimenting with other stuff
[12:33] <Burgundavia> ugh
[12:33] <Burgundavia> 8516 is getting nasty
[12:38] <jsgotangco> 8516?
[12:38] <Burgundavia> the bug for the spatial change
[12:38] <Burgundavia> I filed it
[12:38] <Burgundavia> it has become "the official spatial bug"
[12:39] <jsgotangco> let me check that i was looking into that mosh sammy pic
[12:41] <jsgotangco> wow thats long
[12:42] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:44] <jsgotangco> "If you don't like spatial don't use it!"
[12:44] <jsgotangco> hehe
[12:44] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[12:45] <Kinnison> yeesh the tempers run high on that bug
[12:45] <Burgundavia> I haven't bothered yet
[12:45] <Burgundavia> going to reinstall tomorrow
[12:45] <jsgotangco> i just turn it off
[12:52] <jsgotangco> jeezz Remy's comments are nasty
[12:59] <Burgundavia> cya all
[01:00] <jsgotangco> im out as well
[02:49] <Liz> can anyone give me the url for the learning linux open source site ?
[03:03] <Liz> nevermind..found it
[09:58] <Burgundavia> gah
[09:58] <Burgundavia> Artwork is always likely to be changing close to release
[09:58] <Burgundavia> read that?
[09:58] <froud> yeah
[09:59] <Burgundavia> not so happy, but I figured that is what he would say
[09:59] <Burgundavia> doesn't want to take the wraps off the new artwork until the very end
[10:00] <froud> sure, figure
[10:00] <froud> conerntrating on new structure make files
[10:01] <Burgundavia> hmm?
[10:04] <Burgundavia> you have been busy I see
[10:04] <froud> Hmmm
[10:05] <froud> architecting new make system
[10:05] <froud> most of the heavy moving now over
[10:05] <froud> now focused on creating the make system
[10:05] <froud> specific for gnome first
[10:05] <froud> then we can merge back to trunk
[10:06] <froud> in my mind if the current docs build then people should be happy and have an example on which to build the other things
[10:06] <froud> what do you think
[10:06] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[10:07] <froud> ok must go back before I lose concerntration
[10:33] <froud> enough for tonight bye


[07:40] <Mirv> robru: I don't seem to find where to set overlay PPA in bileto anymore, and the "ubuntu" selection just lists "ubuntu"
[09:19] <davmor2> sil2100, jibel: emulator is stuck in a loop here on the new welcome wizard also it looks like it is saying there is no sim and no network for which I obviously blame Saviq ;)
[09:20] <sil2100> davmor2: a loop? Damn
[09:20] <sil2100> The security team won't be happy about that
[09:20] <davmor2> sil2100: I'm just destroying it and trying again to confirm
[09:21]  * Saviq pretends doesn't here
[09:26] <Saviq> trainguards, can you please delete gsettings-qt from https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-076 thanks!
[09:26] <Mirv> Saviq: ok
[09:36] <davmor2> Saviq, sil2100, jibel: So destroyed recreated same issue, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1565685
[09:36] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1565685 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu-emulator: Crash in new welcome wizard cause the emulator to reboot" [Undecided,New]
[09:36] <Saviq> davmor2, ack
[09:36] <davmor2> Saviq: and it is unity8 crashing I attached the crash hopefully it shows something
[09:37] <Saviq> davmor2, if a unity8 crash is 150kB, it doesn't ;)
[09:37] <jibel> davmor2, great, everything was working nicely when you were on holidays ;)
[09:38] <davmor2> jibel: yeah sure, sure, I'm back now and need to blame Saviq for stuff
[09:39] <Saviq> whaa, so this is targetting OTA10¿!?
[09:40] <davmor2> Saviq: Yes it is critical for the security team that's why the emulator got fixed
[09:40] <davmor2> Saviq: and then you broke it
[09:40] <Saviq> ok, on it
[09:47] <jibel> Mirv, we don't have anything to verify on https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1121, do we?
[09:52] <Mirv> jibel: no, it's just a "FYI, please let this pass when convenient".
[10:02] <Saviq> davmor2, got it, does it always crash after "Preferred name" page for you, too?
[10:03] <davmor2> Saviq: first time yes second time can happen on that page or others, but mostly that page
[10:03] <Saviq> looks to me like oxide assumes the existence of vibrator
[10:06] <Saviq> Mirv, are there dbg symbols available for -gles qtdeclarative?
[10:26] <Saviq> davmor2, jibel, do you know if/how it's possible to increase the emulator disk size? oxide debug symbols are over 1GB...
[10:27] <jibel> Saviq, I have no idea sorry
[10:33] <Saviq> davmor2, jibel, AFAICT bug #1565685 is oxide aborting due to missing vibrator in the emulator
[10:33] <ubot5`> bug 1565685 in Canonical System Image "Ubuntu-emulator: Crash in new welcome wizard cause the emulator to reboot" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1565685
[10:35] <Mirv> Saviq: nowadays yes the PPA:s have the -dbgsym packages too even though explicit debug packages aren't built from the gles packaging: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay/+sourcepub/6226219/+listing-archive-extra
[10:36] <Saviq> Mirv, yeah I was trying to use -dbg, prolly not built for -gles?
[10:36] <Saviq> and anyway /me likes -dbgsyms more - smaller
[10:36] <Mirv> Saviq: yep the -dbg is from the packaging, that's only for non-gles
[10:37] <Saviq> yup
[10:38] <davmor2> Saviq: meh why would that crash out unity8 though?
[10:39] <Saviq> davmor2, because we're displaying terms of service for Here in a WebView
[10:39] <Saviq> looks like it's not limited to unity8/wizard in any case
[10:39]  * Saviq tries
[12:21] <Saviq> sil2100, hey, how're we on deadlines? OTA10 snapshotted yet? are we opening xenial overlay?
[12:32] <nik90> jibel, ping
[12:32] <jibel> Saviq, yes it has been snapshotted
[12:33] <jibel> nik90, pong
[12:33] <nik90> jibel, Hi, We're gearing up to release uNav 0.58. Before we send the click package to QA, we compiled a list of manual tests at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/unav.
[12:34] <nik90> jibel, I was told that QA already had a list of tests for uNav somewhere.
[12:34] <nik90> jibel, Can we group them all in one location for convenience?
[12:35] <jibel> nik90, this is great. Thanks for that.
[12:35] <jibel> nik90, yes, definitely. There is a large overlap between both suites.
[12:36] <nik90> jibel, We did it wiki ubuntu since that's what most other projects did..I wasn't aware of the other QA test suite until yesterday.
[12:36] <jibel> nik90, np, I'll talk to iahmad to discuss the best options.
[12:37] <nik90> jibel, cool
[12:37] <nik90> thnx
[12:37] <jibel> nik90, I saw other apps store the test suite in a checkbox job format in trunk
[12:37] <nik90> jibel, Yes, I did that with clock app. That's an option too.
[12:37] <jibel> nik90, it's easy to share the test suites and process them automatically this way
[12:38] <nik90> I wasn't sure what the state of checkbox was and if it was continued to be used.
[12:38] <jibel> it's also very easy to review a diff and check if the tests have been updated accroding to the changes
[12:39] <nik90> jibel, Do you want to convert these tests into the checkbox format? Or you want to check with iahmad first?
[12:40] <jibel> nik90, lets talk to iahmad first before generating unnecessary work.
[12:40] <nik90> ack.
[12:40]  * sil2100 had a pipe malfunction at home
[12:41] <sil2100> Just finished fixing it up, was away in the last ~1 hour, eh
[13:44] <boiko> robru: hi, britney failed on silo 57, where can I get logs to see what happened?
[14:00] <jibel> boiko, in bileto there are 2 links to excuses. one for vivid and one for xenial
[14:01] <jibel> boiko, you click on the link and it'll show what failed with links to the log and the test artifacts
[14:02] <boiko> jibel: great! thanks!
[14:22] <boiko> trainguards: hi, we have britney failing on silo 57, and after checking the logs, it is a unity8 test not related to telephony-service (confirmed with mzanetti), how can we proceed now?
[14:26] <sil2100> boiko: why is this test failing? Is it a known failure with the unity8 team?
[14:27] <boiko> sil2100: mzanetti told me it only happens on britney, and that they are on it already
[14:27] <boiko> sil2100: and he confirmed it has nothing to do with the telephony-service changes
[14:27] <mzanetti> sil2100, yeah... issue on our end
[14:27] <sil2100> boiko: I suppose in this case you could request a manual override to the QA queue - but that would be jibel as the decision-maker
[14:27] <sil2100> mzanetti: ok
[14:28] <boiko> jibel: could you please take a look?
[14:34] <jibel> boiko, I can force it but it'll block again when it's in xenial proposed
[14:34] <jibel> I cannot for it indefinitely
[14:34] <boiko> mzanetti: just curious, any ETA on a fix for this? (just to check if we can wait for it)
[14:35] <mzanetti> boiko, I'll find out in a minute
[14:35] <boiko> jibel: let's wait for mzanetti's feedback on this then
[14:56] <mzanetti> boiko, you probably don't want to wait
[14:56] <mzanetti> jibel, ^
[14:56] <boiko> :/
[14:56] <mzanetti> yeah, sorry... one of them is really weird and we're still a bit lost
[14:56] <mzanetti> so while we might solve ti soon, I can't promis it
[15:47] <Saviq> sil2100, in case you missed: <Saviq> sil2100, hey, how're we on deadlines? OTA10 snapshotted yet? are we opening xenial overlay?
[15:48] <sil2100> Saviq: hey! Yes, OTA-10 has been more-or-less snapshotted (need to copy over the new langpacks) and copied to rc
[15:48] <sil2100> Saviq: the images are in BQs hands
[15:48] <sil2100> So we're on schedule so far
[15:49] <sil2100> As for xenial overlay... I would say yes, but will make sure everyone is ok with that and then we switch
[15:49]  * Saviq just wonders when does it make sense to put up the next unity8 silo... "ready to test" QA queue looks significant, I assume because of OTA10 and 16.04
[15:54] <jibel> Saviq, we are still testing OTA10 and most of the testers are on holidays (national holiday)
[15:54] <jibel> we'll catch up with the queue starting from tomorrow
[15:56] <Saviq> jibel, ack, nothing pressing... /me just learned we already have 25+ branches to land in unity8 :P
[15:56] <jibel> Saviq, oh, mega silo 41 didn't teach you anything right?
[15:56] <jibel> ;)
[15:57] <Saviq> jibel, what was wrong with that?
[15:57] <jibel> it's a PITA to land
[15:57] <Saviq> jibel, if we tried to split it in 4-5 by "feature", it'd be a bigger PITA IMO
[15:58] <Saviq> it wouldn't have helped locating the deadlock much
[15:58] <Saviq> and then we'd be backed up even more
[15:58] <Saviq> we just need to reduce the code churn :P
[16:02] <robru> Mirv: yes, all vivid landings now point at overlay (and dual always was vivid->overlay) so there's no longer any need to specify overlay.
[16:03] <Trevinho> sil2100: ehy, so can you publish https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1153 please? :)
[16:05] <Mirv> robru: ah, well then it makes sense, but the text "Warning: Are you sure you want to publish an SRU?" should be removed
[16:05] <robru> Mirv: oh, heh, oops. ok I'll drop that
[16:06] <Mirv> robru: and "QA Signoff" should be Required instead of forced N/A
[16:06] <Mirv> robru: thanks
[16:11] <robru> Mirv: ok, fixes in production, give it a check over
[16:33] <sil2100> Trevinho: on it now! :)
[16:35] <sil2100> Trevinho: published - sorry it took so long, touch preempted me always ;)
[16:35] <Trevinho> Laney: ^ oh :)
[16:35] <sil2100> It's +1'ed
[16:35] <sil2100> It's all good
[16:35] <sil2100> Ok, not all good
[16:35] <sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/compiz/gwd-fix-tests/+merge/289535 <- needs review ;)
[16:35] <sil2100> Trevinho: could you get that approved ^?
[16:36] <Trevinho> sil2100: oh, sorry... I thought I had
[16:36] <Trevinho> sil2100: done
[16:41] <sil2100> Trevinho: published o/
[16:42] <Trevinho> sil2100: thanksss
[16:49] <bschaefer> hello, so im interested in getting a package/ppa pushed back to vivid + overlay. I have a ppa with it built (against the vivid + overlay ppa): https://launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/+archive/ubuntu/capnproto
[16:50] <bschaefer> need a newer capnproto since the older one 0.4.0 is missing some functionality
[16:57] <sil2100> bschaefer: is it required by our stable touch products?
[16:57] <bschaefer> sil2100, it will be required for mir
[16:57] <bschaefer> (branches are blocked on this the older version no having the correct functionality)
[16:58]  * bschaefer is having hard time with english it appears
[16:58] <sil2100> bschaefer: ok, so let's think about getting it in then - prepare a silo for its inclusion, I'll check the packages in your PPA and upload them there (either by source copy or manual dput)
[16:59] <bschaefer> sil2100, awesome thanks! Also who would i poke to get a silo :)
[16:59] <sil2100> bschaefer: I think you should have the right permissions to do so :)
[16:59] <bschaefer> o right
[16:59] <sil2100> http://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/
[16:59] <bschaefer> yup, thanks
[16:59] <sil2100> Go here and try filling one in (after logging in) - and then assigning
[17:00] <bschaefer> cool let me see if i remember how to do all of it :).
[17:00] <bschaefer> sil2100, the on concern with this ppa is libunity-scopes depends on libcapnproto
[17:00] <bschaefer> annnd IIRC it had some issues with the newer capnproto
[17:02] <bschaefer> sil2100, also...theres no MP ... soo not sure what to put there :)
[17:04]  * bschaefer digs around wiki
[17:07] <bschaefer> sil2100, soo it looks like you've to directly upload my ppa to this silo :): https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1218
[17:07] <bschaefer> it got silo https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-003
[17:10] <robru> bschaefer: I can do that, one sec
[17:11] <bschaefer> robru, thanks!
[17:12] <robru> bschaefer: oh, where's your ppa?
[17:12] <bschaefer> https://launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/+archive/ubuntu/capnproto
[17:12] <bschaefer> err
[17:12] <bschaefer> o i guess thats right
[17:13]  * bschaefer thought the url would be different linking to a ppa from my account :)
[17:13] <Mirv> robru: looks good now, both aspects, thanks!
[17:13] <robru> Mirv: you're welcome
[17:13] <robru> bschaefer: ok copy done, the ticket should reflect the status in about ~15 (also it needs time to rebuild anyway)
[17:14] <bschaefer> robru, sweet thanks!
[17:14] <robru> bschaefer: you're welcome
[17:23] <sil2100> robru, slangasek: I need to go AFK in around ~1 hour, not sure if I'll be around for the meeting
[17:23] <robru> slangasek: sil2100: not much new on my end, propose we just cancel?
[18:02] <slangasek> sil2100, robru: would prefer a quick sync if you guys are available - can be short and sil2100 can go afk :)
[18:03] <robru> slangasek: ok I'm in the hangout
[18:04] <robru> slangasek: hmm I see you joined the chat but I can't see or hear you


[13:46] <mup> Bug #2009799 changed: Maas 3.4 :  Blocking Bug Commissioning, Deployment... <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2009799>
[13:46] <mup> Bug #2012274 opened: 50-maas-01-commissionin failed <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2012274>
[15:07] <mup> Bug #2009746 opened: dpkg-reconfigure cloud-init: yaml.load errors during MAAS deloyment of Ubuntu 23.04(Lunar) <cloud-init:Fix Committed by chad.smith> <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2009746>
[15:10] <mup> Bug #2009746 changed: dpkg-reconfigure cloud-init: yaml.load errors during MAAS deloyment of Ubuntu 23.04(Lunar) <cloud-init:Fix Committed by chad.smith> <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2009746>
[15:13] <mup> Bug #2009746 opened: dpkg-reconfigure cloud-init: yaml.load errors during MAAS deloyment of Ubuntu 23.04(Lunar) <cloud-init:Fix Committed by chad.smith> <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2009746>
[15:16] <mup> Bug #2009746 changed: dpkg-reconfigure cloud-init: yaml.load errors during MAAS deloyment of Ubuntu 23.04(Lunar) <cloud-init:Fix Committed by chad.smith> <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2009746>
[15:19] <mup> Bug #2009746 opened: dpkg-reconfigure cloud-init: yaml.load errors during MAAS deloyment of Ubuntu 23.04(Lunar) <cloud-init:Fix Committed by chad.smith> <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2009746>


[08:37] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:38] <davmor2> This morning I will mostly be writing manual test for checkbox and testing wubi
[11:42] <davmor2> hello heno :)
[11:42] <heno> hey davmor2! How's it going?
[11:43] <davmor2> Fine thanks I think wubi is still broken but at a different point now :)
[11:44] <davmor2> heno: how's your new role?
[11:45] <heno> davmor2: not bad, starting to get busy as well now :)
[11:45] <davmor2> cool :)
[13:06]  * davmor2 -> Lunch
[14:24] <davmor2> cr3: dude morning
[14:25] <cr3> davmor2: yo mama, thanks for your cases.txt file!
[14:25] <davmor2> np's
[14:26] <davmor2> by the way what is the script for testing the display sizes auto magically I can add tests for pre- and post- s3/s4 then
[14:29] <cr3> davmor2: I'm not sure which one you mean, resolution_test?
[14:29] <davmor2> cr3: you may need to add requires: but I don't know what
[14:29] <davmor2> cr3: do you have access to the spreadsheet of tests?
[14:34] <cr3> davmor2: I was just going to ask you to send me the one you were sent by fader, that should be authoritative
[14:35] <davmor2> I made an ods version of it unless you want it comma seperated
[14:35] <davmor2> cr3: ^
[14:37] <davmor2> cr3: I sent you both versions
[14:40] <cr3> davmor2: cheers
[14:41] <davmor2> most of the top half is now covered by the tests I've thrown together plus existing and there are only 2/3-ish of the bottom half too :)
[14:44] <cr3> davmor2: wow, very pleased to hear that!
[14:46] <davmor2> cr3: lik I say though I've gone for the obvious ones first and then I've left all the ones that say in progress or whatever till fader come back :)  I just want to fill the wholes for now and then back fill the others when I know exactly what is happening with them :)
[14:51] <cr3> anyone happen to know of a tutorial or something to purge a package returning: Errors were encountered while processing: package_name
[14:53] <cr3> nevermind, --force-remove-reinstreq did it for me
[15:53] <davmor2> davmor3: ping
[15:53] <davmor3> oh adium themes
[15:54] <davmor3> hmmmmmmm
[15:54] <davmor2> liking adium :)
[16:10] <davmor3> >:-)
[20:32] <mikefletcher> Hi.  The Disk Benchmark test on the lastest checkbox in 9.10 doesn't produce any usefull output.  All I see is the words "Is this ok?".  Is this a known problem?


[09:57]  * hazmat yawns
[10:09] <_mup_> Bug #842488 was filed: Enable cloud-init debug output to better support problem analysis <Ensemble:In Progress by smoser> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/842488 >
[10:19] <_mup_> ensemble/stack-crack r332 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:19] <_mup_> clean up bad merge from formula-provider-storage url integration
[10:21] <hazmat> hmm.. one more openstack ec2 incompatiblity found.. only affects shutdown though
[10:22] <_mup_> Bug #842497 was filed: Error on openstack env shutdown <Ensemble:New for hazmat> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/842497 >
[10:25] <fwereade> hazmat: what's the distinction between a machine_id and a machine_state_id?
[10:27] <fwereade> hazmat: because it seems to me that they're the same, except that the requirement that it be an int is never expressed with reference to machine_id
[14:02] <smoser> SpamapS, i thiknm you're planning on getting a new ensemble into ubuntu, right? when you do i would really like to have bug 842488 in.
[14:02] <_mup_> Bug #842488: Enable cloud-init debug output to better support problem analysis <Ensemble:In Progress by smoser> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/842488 >
[14:02] <smoser> if people are going to use those packages, then this will really help debug.
[14:19] <SpamapS> smoser: its trivial enough, I'll drop it in as a patch until it gets merged
[14:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: since the txaws MP's were approved, but I'm not on that particular team, can you merge both branches into txaws?
[14:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'll handle putting them in as a patch to the package
[15:05] <jimbaker`> fwereade, re machine_state_id - i only see one reference to that in trunk, in ensemble.agents.provision
[15:05] <jimbaker`> fwereade, in that case, it's certainly the same as machine_id
[15:06] <fwereade> jimbaker`: heh, I didn't actually look for other references, I thought I'd already seen it elsewhere ;)
[15:06] <fwereade> jimbaker`, cheers
[15:08] <jimbaker`> fwereade, re being constrained to an int, the one place that appears to be the case is in terminate_machine, in the corresponding argparse. normally it's something like 0 or 42, but we often test it as a "machine-0"
[15:09] <jimbaker`> we have tried not to overly constrain what these IDs are
[15:09] <fwereade> jimbaker`: it seems to me that it's tighter than that, just a sec
[15:10] <fwereade> jimbaker`, ensemble.state.machine, get_machine_state
[15:10] <fwereade> jimbaker`, if it's not an int (or a str that can be inted) it will fail
[15:11] <jimbaker`> fwereade, indeed that's the case
[15:11] <fwereade> jimbaker`, so while many things can still work if it's not an int, it feels kinda wrong to throw random data around elsewhere
[15:12] <fwereade> if, say, bootstrap were to create a machine called "bootstrap-0", it would indeed start a machine, but the rest of the system wouldn't be able to use it properly
[15:12] <jimbaker`> fwereade, yeah, i'm not certain what distinction is intended here
[15:13] <fwereade> jimbaker`, it's the sort of thing that makes me want to just tighten things up a little by asserting that the machine-id field in machine_data actually is an int when we call start_machine
[15:13] <fwereade> the tests imply you can pass anything :)
[15:14] <jimbaker`> fwereade, even if you were to remove this constraint? i have never asked hazmat about it, but the tests as we have discussed do use strings preferentially
[15:15] <fwereade> jimbaker`, I'm not sure I want to remove any constraints, just make the ones we already have (but I only just discovered) explicit
[15:15] <jimbaker`> fwereade, the external machine id generation is just a (convenient) artifact of the internal ZK representation
[15:15] <fwereade> jimbaker`, your point being that the constraint is itself unnecessary?
[15:16] <jimbaker`> fwereade, it's quite possible this constraint is rather old
[15:16] <jimbaker`> and we have never exercised it
[15:16] <jimbaker`> it's certainly the intent expressed in a lot of tests that the machine id could in fact be something besides an int
[15:17] <fwereade> jimbaker`, hmm, makes sense
[15:25] <jimbaker`> fwereade, fwiw, hazmat is credited with that code (or at least touching those lines) in bzr blame. but my bzr fu is currently too weak to know how to map it to the rev # on trunk
[15:26] <fwereade> jimbaker`, I'm just going to leave an XXX there for now, I don't want to make any logic changes while I'm documenting
[15:26] <jimbaker`> fwereade, sounds like a good plan
[15:27] <jimbaker`> fwereade, btw, are you doing the doc changes to use autodoc in one big branch?
[15:28] <fwereade> jimbaker`, I'm stacking them
[15:28] <fwereade> jimbaker`, I'm finding the documenting quite hard going tbh
[15:28] <fwereade> jimbaker`, but it's teaching me a lot about the bits ofthe code I don't know
[15:28] <fwereade> jimbaker`, but if I tried to do everything at once I think I'd go insane
[15:30] <jimbaker`> fwereade, good to split up. it would make reviewers insane too. just don't know if you should be the one doing all of these fixes as well
[15:34] <jimbaker`> fwereade, also, is it necessary to fully specify the full path in the rst? my understanding is that the full path is only necessary for resolving ambiguities
[15:34] <jimbaker`> eg :class:`ensemble.machine.ProviderMachine` vs :class:`ProviderMachine`. i guess it's worth experimenting with
[15:43] <jimbaker`> fwereade, regrettably it doesn't seem able to do the xref unless the path is explicit
[15:44] <fwereade> jimbaker`, indeed, I resisted the temptation to start trying to hack up sphinx to make it resolve non-ambiguous references ;)
[15:45] <fwereade> jimbaker`, and, well, it's teaching me a lot, but to be fair I'm not that likely to finish everything
[15:45] <jimbaker`> fwereade, well it does seem some sort of hacking up is required, as seen in generate_modules.py
[15:45] <fwereade> jimbaker` that's distinct from hacking sphinx itself ;)
[15:46] <jimbaker`> fwereade, indeed, there is that distinction
[15:46] <fwereade> jimbaker`, anyway, I have something else to do that's oddly uninspiring, and docs feel like a good thing to work on while I try to figure out what's bothering me in the other stuff
[15:47] <fwereade> jimbaker`, I'm not committing to documenting everything, but I can make things a little better and teach myself stuff in the process :)
[15:48] <jimbaker`> fwereade, indeed, it's a very good way to learn the codebase by having to do some sort of explicit/formal pass over it, vs just reading code
[15:54] <niemeyer> Hey folks
[15:54] <jimbaker`> niemeyer, hi
[15:54] <niemeyer> I'm heading out to lunch.. will be biab
[15:55] <jimbaker`> niemeyer, enjoy!
[15:55] <jcastro> lynxman: any word on macports?
[16:01] <lynxman> jcastro: nope :( https://www.macports.org/ports.php?by=name&substr=ensemble
[16:01] <jcastro> so is there like someone we can ping?
[16:04] <m_3> jcastro, lynxman: what abpout homebrew?
[16:04] <lynxman> m_3: if you get the port it works fine :)
[16:05] <lynxman> jcastro: I'll try to ping them tomorrow in the irc channel, I'm supposedly off today (why am I on irc? I don't know)
[16:05] <jcastro> heh, ok
[16:12] <m_3> jcastro: thanks for the syndication!
[16:12] <m_3> we're missing some posts though
[16:13] <jcastro> yeah the plugin got upgraded
[16:13] <m_3> Juan's got a couple in that same timeperiod that've gone missing
[16:13] <m_3> membase
[16:13] <m_3> and hpcc
[16:13] <jcastro> ok
[16:15] <m_3> lemme know if we should do something different with the formatting to make it easier
[16:15] <m_3> thanks man!
[16:15] <jcastro> ok I think I see the problem
[16:15] <jcastro> you need a "planet" tag AND the "featured" tag
[16:15] <jcastro> so using both those tags should autosyndicate you guys
[16:15] <jcastro> negronjl: ^
[16:16] <m_3> ok, I'll add them on future posts
[16:16] <m_3> jcastro: should I retroactively do it to old ones?
[16:16] <jcastro> I've been adding them by hand in the syndication thing, I guess that would make more sense
[16:17] <negronjl> jcastro:  I'll add them to all of mine ... let's see what happens then
[16:17] <jcastro> k
[16:17] <jcastro> hey so m_3
[16:17] <m_3> me2
[16:18] <jcastro> about that node.js "easy" article I linked you to
[16:18] <jcastro> the one on HN.
[16:18] <m_3> I'm working on a post now
[16:18] <jcastro> I was thinking a nice response on how we're making all that easier
[16:18] <jcastro> and then when we pingback the guy I can send him a note
[16:18] <jcastro> and then he can mention it on the original article, that would be win
[16:19] <m_3> yup!
[16:19] <kirkland> hazmat: pong
[16:19] <m_3> one of the comments is by a friend
[16:19] <m_3> small world
[16:19] <jcastro> oh awesome
[16:25] <negronjl> jcastro:  posts tagged
[17:22]  * niemeyer waves
[17:23] <niemeyer> fwereade: ping
[17:23] <fwereade> niemeyer: pong
[17:23] <niemeyer> fwereade: Heya!
[17:23] <fwereade> niemeyer: hey :) how's it going?
[17:23] <niemeyer> fwereade: Nicer today :)
[17:24] <fwereade> niemeyer: jolly good
[17:24] <fwereade> niemeyer: as you say, yay, modern medicine :)
[17:24] <niemeyer> fwereade: How's the Orchestra stuff going?
[17:25] <fwereade> niemeyer: I've been finding it oddly tricky to redo the put-auth stuff
[17:26] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmm.. how so?
[17:26] <fwereade> niemeyer: I ended up doing docs and poking at go today, I'm hoping whatever's bothering me will sort itself out by tomorrow
[17:26] <fwereade> niemeyer: whenever I start, it feels like I'm reinventing the wheel
[17:27] <niemeyer> fwereade: Ok
[17:27] <fwereade> niemeyer: HTTPClient doesn't seem to be quite right -- I need at least a couple of distinct classes that differ slightly from the ones they've provided
[17:27] <fwereade> niemeyer: really I just need to force myself to finish it off, and it'll probably turn out to be fine
[17:28] <niemeyer> fwereade: Cool.. I'm hoping to have a hand from you on the store stuff
[17:28] <fwereade> niemeyer: cool, that sounds like fun :)
[17:28] <niemeyer> fwereade: But for that we need to have the Orchestra fully closed
[17:29] <fwereade> niemeyer: well, I'll polish that auth stuff off as soon as I can and hassle RoAkSoAx for any more bugs he can think of ;)
[17:30] <niemeyer> fwereade: Awesome
[17:30] <niemeyer> fwereade: Once you've finished with that, please ping me so we can synchronize on the store
[17:31] <fwereade> niemeyer: cool, will do :D
[17:31] <fwereade> niemeyer: hopefully tomorrow :)
[17:33] <niemeyer> Awesome!
[17:47] <jimbaker`> fwereade, hazmat introduced that change in get_machine_state in jan 13 as part of the misc-demo-fixes branch. but it seems more to be able to parse internal ids
[17:48] <hazmat> SpamapS, yes re merge, post plumbers
[17:49] <hazmat> bus time.. bbiab
[17:53] <hazmat> fwereade, jimbaker` the machine i corresponds to the zk sequence value of the machine state node
[17:53] <hazmat> s/i/id
[17:53] <jimbaker`> hazmat, correct
[17:53] <hazmat> jimbaker`, trying to back track through the conversation, not sure what the question was
[17:53] <jimbaker`> hazmat, fwereade was simply bringing up this restriction as part of his doc work
[17:54] <hazmat> ah
[17:54] <jimbaker`> hazmat, in many tests, machine id is often something like "machine-0"
[17:54] <jimbaker`> but in a few places, like get_machine_state, we explicitly require it to be an integer, or something that has an integer portion
[17:55] <jimbaker`> so "machine-0" would in fact qualify in that case ;)
[17:55] <hazmat> yeah.. in retrospect, it would hav ebeen nice to have those namespaced to something more blantaly obvious.. ssh 0 .. vs ssh machine/0
[17:55] <hazmat> hotspot on a bus .. rocks
[17:55] <jimbaker`> hazmat, i always liked how aws does it, i-abcdef
[17:56] <jimbaker`> and of course we do that in the topology tests, s-0 or m-0
[17:57] <hazmat> jimbaker`, at this point are namespace precedent is "qualifier/id" for service units, which is pretty nice overall i think... definitely true that tests violate those blatantly where they can
[17:57] <jimbaker`> hazmat, all vehicles should be a hotspot. i definitely enjoy my verizon router for that aspect
[17:58] <hazmat> i was able to get the local dev provider bootstrapped on a plane
[17:58] <jimbaker`> hazmat, and maybe the tests should do just that
[17:59] <hazmat> SpamapS, is there a way to prime a debcache dir with additional packages.. i really want to have the ability to do completely offline demos, just trying to understand how to go about it.. afaics, i would also need to setup a file apt repo accessible the containers for formula pkg installs
[18:05] <_mup_> ensemble/local-ubuntu-provider r348 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:05] <_mup_> work around path issues when launching machine agent, better multi bootstrap/shutdown handling, incorporate unpack formula into start unit, fix up admin identity into hierarchy initialization, make unitdeploy.is-running return a deferred
[18:07] <hazmat> bcsaller, so i got about as far as creating the lxc container in response to ensemble deploy with the latest on the above branch, still lots of work, but i'm optimistic..
[18:07] <bcsaller> hazmat: I am as well
[18:07] <bcsaller> hazmat: where are you now?
[18:08] <hazmat> bcsaller, i'm wondering if we can do away with the ensemble-branch/origin stuff and try to always deploy into the container the version running the cli, via copying the source tree into the container.. maybe too aggressively implicit.
[18:08] <hazmat> bcsaller, on a bus just left sfo airport about 10m ago.. heading north on the 1
[18:08] <SpamapS> hazmat: if the right .deb is in /var/cache/apt/archives it will not be downloaded
[18:08] <bcsaller> hazmat: for local dev that might work, but the origin stuff would still be needed on EC2 I'd think
[18:09] <SpamapS> /var/cache/apt/archive actually
[18:09] <bcsaller> bus w/wifi, nice
[18:09] <hazmat> bcsaller, personal t-mobile hotspot.. works just as well :-)
[18:09] <SpamapS> hazmat: oh debootstrap.. hm
[18:10] <hazmat> bcsaller, its already outside the container on the host... its just a bit of an ugly issue when using multiple branches against the same env.. different deploys with different unit code.. and bad from an upgrade perspective.. probably makes a debian maintainer cry somewhere ;-)
[18:10] <hazmat> SpamapS, excellent thanks
[18:11] <hazmat> SpamapS,  i think the /var/cache/apt/archives priming should be able to do it.. the debcache thing isn't going to help per se, if we can't pass the additional packages to be installed when doing the debootstrap
[18:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: you can also just build your own mirror w/ reprepro
[18:22] <hazmat> SpamapS, that looks great, i was figuring we could do something like a shared local package cache onto a block dev, we overlayfs into the containers
[18:23] <SpamapS> hazmat: lxc-clone perhaps? ;)
[18:23] <hazmat> SpamapS, well i don't really want to clone the entire container, i just want a primed package cache for any given container
[18:24] <SpamapS> hazmat: the default container builder only builds the mini-buntu once.
[18:24] <hazmat> SpamapS, i know.. but it would be nice to extend that to common packages we might install.. i mean if i have 20 units of wordpress... i really don't need to download apache/php/wordpress times
[18:25] <SpamapS> IMO there's a missing hook command which is the "I'm ready to be turned into an image" which is executed whenever any common operations (like package installs) are done.
[18:31] <hazmat> SpamapS, perhaps.. its a little tricky... an image implies a static base point, but from the moment of deploy a formula may be launched with different configs.. it might work within a service, for a quick new unit, on the same machine...
[18:32] <SpamapS> hazmat: it should work within every service if the formula author identifies the point at which they have done no more unique configuration.
[18:32] <SpamapS> so during 'install' you say 'ready-for-imaging' right before you start services or record hostnames or anything like that.
[18:32] <hazmat> bcsaller, we totally have to hit avatar's again... life changing
[18:32] <SpamapS> Then the provisioning agent can snapshot your EBS, make an image of it, and every add-unit to that service is super fast.
[18:34] <hazmat> SpamapS, good point.. assuming volume management.. which we'll probably need to tackle next cycle
[18:34] <SpamapS> if there's no volume management, then the 'ready-for-imaging' command could simply do the bundling itself.
[18:35] <SpamapS> Thinking in terms of real use cases vs. playing w/ ensemble.. the faster add-unit is, the more useful it is to people... they won't mind the first deploy being 10 minutes if every add-unit after that is 40 seconds.
[18:35] <hazmat> SpamapS, so there are faster tricks we can do to get there
[18:36] <hazmat> er.. not faster in terms of clock time, but in terms of dev time
[18:37] <hazmat> i figured out the easiest way to preallocate machines just using the existing infrastructure, is to have  our bootstrap setup the zk tree with however many nodes we want, and they'll be created as standby nodes for new deploys after the first deploy
[18:37] <SpamapS> anyway, to your point about containers.. I think lxc-clone is what you want
[18:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: yeah that would be huge.. to be able to decouple machine creation from deploy/add-unit
[18:38] <hazmat> SpamapS, its basically in the vision of a min/max environment config
[18:38] <hazmat> where you spec min/max machines you want to pay for
[18:38] <hazmat> SpamapS, its starts to fall down because we're doing dynamic port management
[18:39] <hazmat> so we can't ever do placement to avoid conflicts, since we have no static analysis capabilities upfront at formula deploy time
[18:39] <hazmat> i don't really see the need for dynamic port management.. but otoh.. getting true density is going to need some network trickery anyways
[18:42] <robbiew> okay folks....gotta fire in some nearby woods...railroad tracks are a good barrier between the woods and my neighborhood, but I need to go afk for a bit until I know it's safe
[18:43] <hazmat> robbiew, good luck and be safe
[18:43] <niemeyer> robbiew: Ugh :(
[18:44] <SpamapS> Austin dealing with the same type of fires we had 3 years ago. Nasty stuff.
[18:44] <hazmat> SpamapS, re containers, i'm pretty sure lxc-clone isn't what i want... i really just want a local deb repo... for offline ensemble env deploys, the reprepo looks spot on for it, thanks
[18:44] <SpamapS> robbiew: be safe
[18:45] <SpamapS> hazmat: ok, cool. :)
[18:45]  * hazmat goes back to working on presentation
[19:20] <niemeyer> It surprises me a bit that we have no required/optional flag in the config
[19:21] <SpamapS> agreed
[19:22] <SpamapS> there will be plenty of services with no sane default config.. they should error at deploy.
[19:23] <SpamapS> alright rev 336 uploaded to ubuntu
[19:24] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Hmm
[19:24] <niemeyer> SpamapS: That was probably the rationale for the choice
[19:25] <robbiew> fire contained....all is good
[19:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: The service should always have a sane default
[19:25] <robbiew> :)
[19:25] <niemeyer> robbiew: Phew
[19:25] <SpamapS> niemeyer: there's no sane default title for a blog. :)
[19:25] <SpamapS> "Abandoned Server" maybe
[19:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Indeed, but it's fine to define it afterwards
[19:25] <SpamapS> "TELL MY OWNER TO CHANGE ME"
[19:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Exactly! ;-)
[19:26] <robbiew> niemeyer: indeed...was bit dangerous for awhile, but the fire chief lives in our neighborhood...so I'm thinking that helped get resources here quickly :D
[19:27] <SpamapS> niemeyer: we run into this all the time in packaging.. some services need deep configuration before being started.
[19:27] <niemeyer> robbiew: As some say, it's important to know everything, but just to have the phone number of someone who does ;)
[19:27] <niemeyer> s/it's im/it's not im/
[19:27] <SpamapS> mysql you can really shoot yourself in the foot if you don't tune it first
[19:27] <SpamapS> postgres too
[19:27] <SpamapS> because the initial database creation can change the way the thing works.
[19:28] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sure, and that's where Ensemble gets in :)
[19:28] <SpamapS> I guess my point is, deploying it w/o configuration would result in something that can't be related to things
[19:28] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Hmm.. I don't get it..
[19:29] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Why would we build a formula that can't be related to things?
[19:29] <SpamapS> There are defaults, but they get you in trouble.
[19:29] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sounds like we should change them?
[19:29] <SpamapS> niemeyer: if you don't turn on binary logging in mysql.. you can't relate to slaves.
[19:29] <SpamapS> but if you turn it on, you double your write load
[19:29] <SpamapS> which you may not want to do if you have chosen drbd as your HA method
[19:30] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sounds like an easy choice to make.. enable by default.. we don't support drbd
[19:30] <niemeyer> SpamapS: and offer a flag for people to tune
[19:30] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Those who want something else, can have it
[19:30] <SpamapS> What if you do your replication w/ rabbitmq
[19:30] <SpamapS> meh
[19:30] <SpamapS> Its not critical
[19:30] <niemeyer> SpamapS: :-)
[19:31] <SpamapS> I'm just saying that often times this is what annoys sysadmins about packaging.. that the packagers make too many decisions for the user.
[19:31] <SpamapS> In fact
[19:31] <SpamapS> what we need isn't optional/required
[19:31] <SpamapS> but priority
[19:32] <SpamapS> But thats later, when we have configurators and not just config.yaml .. n/m
[19:48] <_mup_> ensemble/rename-shutdown-command r340 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:48] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[20:01] <hazmat> niemeyer, re config required/optional.. how about runtime relation declarations
[20:01] <hazmat> robbiew, awesome, looks quite serious from a distance
[20:02] <_mup_> ensemble/rename-shutdown-command r341 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:02] <_mup_> Fixed review items
[20:02] <hazmat> we just mod the formula state serialization directly to add the additonal rel endpoints
[20:03] <niemeyer> hazmat: How's one related to the other?
[20:04] <hazmat> good question :-)
[20:04] <niemeyer> :)
[20:04] <hazmat> there both relating to runtime configuration of a service
[20:05] <niemeyer> hazmat: Good try ;-)
[20:05] <hazmat> say i have a generic wsgi/rails/node deploy formula.. pulls from vc... etc. based on configuration.. figures out what the particular service dependencies are for this app  and then updates the relation declarations
[20:06] <hazmat> atm, i have to declare the entire world of possibilties as optional relations
[20:06] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yeah, but there are some important reasons for that
[20:07] <niemeyer> hazmat: I know what you mean, but we'll have to dig deeper to see how to model that kind of relationship
[20:07] <niemeyer> hazmat: It's not sensible to simply dynamically show up with new relationships
[20:07] <niemeyer> hazmat: The admin would be surprised, the formula itself would become weird (how can a new relation be introduced if there are no files expecting for it), etc
[20:08] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r339 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:08] <_mup_> Merged rename-shutdown-command branch [r=niemeyer,fwereade][f=838215]
[20:08] <_mup_> Renames shutdown command to destroy-environment.
[20:09] <hazmat> niemeyer, dynamic relations seem more 'sensible' to me then dynamic ports... everything is a tradeoff..  dynamic over static looses analysis,  i mean the admin is configuring  the formula to point to a particular platform app..
[20:10] <niemeyer> hazmat: Awesome.. we've managed to talk about dynamic ports and required/optional config settings in the context of dynamic relations :-)
[20:10] <hazmat> :-)
[20:10] <hazmat> i should eat my lunch while its warm
[20:10] <niemeyer> hazmat: Enjoy!
[20:46] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Is it the case that all of the inputs to config.validate are string=>string?
[20:46] <niemeyer> bcsaller: If you remember that from the top of your head at all.. I can look otherwise
[20:53] <bcsaller> niemeyer: I thought conversions came out of the validate process
[20:53] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Yeah, that's what I think as well.. cool
[21:39] <_mup_> ensemble/go-formulas r16 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:39] <_mup_> Added config validation support.
[21:43] <_mup_> Bug #843299 was filed: Formula config in Go port needs validation support <Ensemble:In Progress by niemeyer> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/843299 >


[00:11] <bazhang> !lucid
[03:18] <bazhang> previously a remove/kick for gateway users was enough; floodbots would then ban
[03:52] <elky> I don't see the point in "warning" wastrel, do you?
[03:53] <IdleOne> nope ban/forward
[03:53] <IdleOne> he knows the rules
[03:53] <elky> he knows where we are
[03:53] <IdleOne> yup
[03:54] <IdleOne> he isn't a newbie, knows better then that
 !learn add nice "Also we should always be nice to each other." <-- was his previous contribution to the channel
[03:54] <elky> ... juswhatha?
[03:54] <IdleOne> lol yeah I saw
[03:55] <IdleOne> and that isn't a bad edit for the !nice factoid actually
[07:52] <elky> guys, we need to clear some exempts
[09:06] <ravenkhan> hii all
[09:06] <ravenkhan> hello
[09:06] <ravenkhan> my name is Khan
[09:07] <ravenkhan> hey anyone here listening?
[09:07] <ravenkhan> !Codeofconduct
[09:08] <ravenkhan> !pm > apw
[09:08] <ravenkhan> !pm > ravenkhan
[09:09] <ravenkhan> !pm > wgrant
[09:09] <ravenkhan> !pm > ubottu
[09:10] <ravenkhan> !caps | adnan
[09:10] <ravenkhan> !caps > adnan
[09:10] <gord> please stop that ravenkhan
[09:10] <ravenkhan> oh you are here
[09:10] <gord> ravenkhan, can we help you with anything?
[09:11] <ravenkhan> yeah i wanted to know about the channel
[09:12] <gord> this is the ubuntu namespace operator channel, which we use to manage the irc channels in the ubuntu namespace. is there anything else?
[09:14] <TheOracle> That's obnoxious.
[09:14] <ravenkhan> hey what did you do?
[09:15] <Tm_T> we did nothing
[09:15] <ravenkhan> gord: are you awake ?
[09:15] <ravenkhan> gord: what did you do?
[09:16] <TheOracle> ravenkhan: May we help you with something?
[09:16] <ravenkhan> TheOracle: no i am asking to gord
[09:16] <ravenkhan> gord: reply me.
[09:17] <TheOracle> ravenkhan: Please see the topic.
[09:17] <TheOracle> ravenkhan: Please either ask a question or part the channel. :-)
[09:17] <ravenkhan> TheOracle: yeah i have . what you want to show me special there
[09:17] <ravenkhan> TheOracle: so i am asking
[09:18] <ravenkhan> TheOracle:  remove gord he is idle against your rules.
[09:19] <TheOracle> ravenkhan: He's an operator.  He's permitted to idle here.
[09:19] <ravenkhan> TheOracle: oh yeah.     If not, please leave. :-)
[09:21] <ravenkhan> TheOracle: yeah i wanted my answer
[09:21]  * TheOracle goes back to sleep
[09:21] <ravenkhan> TheOracle: GONE TO SLEEP DEAR
[09:22] <ravenkhan> !sex | gord
[09:22] <TheOracle> Forgive me if I overstepped any bounds. :-)
[09:24] <Tm_T> that quiet is unnecessary now, I guess
[09:24] <TheOracle> Tm_T: Yeah, it's a ten minute autoquiet.
[09:24] <Tm_T> roger
[09:25] <TheOracle> I could pull it, but it'll still get pulled when it hits expiry.
[09:25] <TheOracle> He's now ranting at me in PM, lovely.
[09:25] <Tm_T> aww
[09:26] <Tm_T> not that it was unexepected
[09:26] <Tm_T> -e
[09:31] <gord> woo, i got off free because i left to get a cup of coffee. is there anything coffee can't do?
[09:32] <Tm_T> gord: it can't brew coffee yet
[09:32] <Tm_T> nor wash coffee stains away
[09:34] <knome> Tm_T, in a way it can - you are just left with recolored stuff
[09:35] <Tm_T> knome: coffee cannot wash coffee stains away
[09:35] <wgrant> Tm_T: If I dilute it to homeopathic concentrations it can!
[09:36] <Tm_T> ):
[12:29] <jussi> Tm_T: it can wash coffee stains away, just the same way as it dealt with that guy before for gord :D go get coffee and all is fixored :D
[12:30] <Tm_T> haha
[14:01] <Tm_T> hmh
[15:20] <Tm_T> still ~180 in -r-p
[15:36] <IdleOne> clear it
[15:38] <IdleOne> /msg ChanServ CLEAR #ChatZone USERS
[15:46] <jpds> s/#ChatZone/#ubuntu/
[15:46] <jussi> lol
[15:47] <jussi> we should seriously do that one day... :P :P
[15:53] <Tm_T> jussi: "no niin" <3 (:)
[15:54] <jussi> :D
[16:05] <elky> Best Op Resignation Evar.
[16:09] <jussi> elky: ?
[16:09] <jussi> oh, doing that? ^^
[16:09] <elky> Clearing #ubuntu would be...
[16:09] <jussi> yeah
[16:09] <elky> yup
[16:10] <Tm_T> actually, going thru all users who haven't been active in channel for, let's say, a month... would gain nothing :-P
[20:51] <Tm_T> hmm, what should we think about linux vs GNU/linux discussion in our support channels?
[20:52] <Tm_T> I find it only adding unnecessary noise'
[21:34] <tsimpson> it's noise
[21:52] <funkyHat> I feel like creating a channel specifically for the discussion of Linux vs GNU/Linux
[23:03] <funkyHat> I responded already
[23:09] <ZykoticK9> Are there any specific OPs for the #ubuntu-ca channel?  Or would changing the /TOPIC be a general Ubuntu OPS duty?  I don't have an alternative replacement at this time - I'm just wondering what process, or who to contact, about updating this outdated TOPIC.  Thanks go to all OPs for your services BTW.
[23:10] <Flannel> ZykoticK9: LoCo channels aren't handled by -ops, #ubuntu-irc is the place to contact those operators (and actually, #ubuntu-ca would probably be the first place I'd ask)
[23:11] <ZykoticK9> Flannel, thanks
[23:13] <ZykoticK9> Flannel, if i was to issue a !ops command in that channel would it notify you guys, or just the loco-operators?
[23:13] <tsimpson> which bot is in that channel?
[23:13] <Flannel> ZykoticK9: It wouldn't let us know.  I have no idea if the bot is tweaked to be channel specific with that factoid,
[23:13] <ZykoticK9> tsimpson, how could i tell?
[23:13] <Flannel> ZykoticK9: but you can find people with access with /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-ca list
[23:14] <tsimpson> ZykoticK9: is there an nick starting with ubot there?
[23:14] <ZykoticK9> tsimpson, ubot2
[23:15] <ZykoticK9> Flannel, thanks for that command - it lists a couple of nics, but i'm not totally sure what i'm seeing
[23:15] <tsimpson> ZykoticK9: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
[23:15] <Flannel> ZykoticK9: Those three nicks have access in that channel.  Ignore the flags, they're not significant in this case.
[23:15] <ZykoticK9> Flannel, so one of those three has the power to change the topic?
[23:16] <Flannel> ZykoticK9: All three of those three, yes.
[23:17] <ZykoticK9> Flannel, thank you very much for your help.  tsimpson thank you as well.
[23:25] <funkyHat> Amaranth: we think he might be Bitaxan, who I kicked just before he joined. In which case he's "ban" evading
[23:25] <funkyHat> oh look
[23:26] <Amaranth> Look at what?
[23:26] <funkyHat> Nevermind, scrollback fail


[10:00] <JonathanD> Morning.
[10:05] <rmg51> morning JonathanD
[10:06] <JonathanD> howdy rmg51
[10:06] <rmg51> o/
[10:13] <JonathanD> Whats up, rmg51?
[10:13] <rmg51> nothing at the moment
[10:13] <rmg51> just sitting here reading the paper online
[10:14] <JonathanD> Exciting
[10:15] <rmg51> very
[10:16] <rmg51> almost as exciting as eating breakfast
[10:16] <rmg51> which is coming in a few minutes
[10:27] <JonathanD> mmm breakfast
[10:49] <InHisName> Still not all that hungry yet.
[10:59] <JonathanD> biscuits n gravy.
[11:00] <JonathanD> mmm
[12:08] <andrew> morning
[12:18] <waltman> I wasn't down south long enough last week. I still prefer my biscuits without gravy.
[12:56] <JonathanD> waltman: what client do you use?
[13:31] <waltman> For biscuits?
[13:31] <JonathanD> yes.
[13:32] <waltman> Crowne Plaza and Cracker Barrel
[13:32] <JonathanD> ok.
[13:33] <waltman> I think the Crowne Plaza's were better
[13:33] <JonathanD> waltman: for irc?
[13:33] <waltman> for eating
[13:33] <JonathanD> client, for irc.
[13:34] <waltman> irssi, of course.
[13:34] <JonathanD> I like red lobster biscuits.
[13:34] <waltman> Oh, and sometimes Colloquy for iPhone when I'm on the road.
[13:34] <JonathanD> Ok.
[13:34] <JonathanD> Doesn't matter, actually, I had a Colloquy question but figured it out.
[13:35] <waltman> I occasionally have trouble connection to freenode from colloquy
[13:35] <JonathanD> on att?
[13:35] <waltman> yes
[13:35] <JonathanD> do you get a "requires SASL" message?
[13:35] <waltman> something like that, yes
[13:36] <JonathanD> You need to SASL, then.
[13:37] <waltman> I'm about to leave in a few minutes. If I think of it, I'll try on the train.
[13:37] <waltman> Right, but HOW do I SASL?
[14:53] <ChinnoDog> ssweeny: that is a funny picture. I like it.
[14:55] <ssweeny> indeed
[14:59] <ChinnoDog> ssweeny: Maybe if we made cameras operable without thumbs people could leave them at home and lolcats would make themselves.
[14:59] <ssweeny> ChinnoDog, i rarely use my thumbs to operate my camera
[15:00] <ChinnoDog> You use them to hold your camera
[15:11] <ssweeny> sometimes
[15:11] <ssweeny> but never to operate it
[15:12] <JonathanD> I would really like to do something cool with my axis
[15:12] <JonathanD> clearly lolcats are the right thing to do?
[15:47] <ChinnoDog> JonathanD: sadly, it seems so
[15:47] <JonathanD> ok
[16:50] <ChinnoDog> IKEA furniture is so darn efficient
[16:51] <ChinnoDog> Whenever I move I look at other furniture but then go back to IKEA because the other stuff is too expensive and not functional enough
[16:51] <ChinnoDog> pleia2: plugged in again?
[16:52] <pleia2> mhmm
[16:52] <waltman> pleia2!
[16:52] <waltman> Did you have fun at $undisclosed_location?
[16:52] <pleia2> waltman: yes :) we went up to sonoma county
[16:53] <waltman> yay!
[17:42] <waltman> pleia2: congrats!
[17:42] <pleia2> thanks :D!
[18:47] <andrew> pleia2: darn, waltman beat me
[18:47] <andrew> pleia2: congrats!
[18:48] <pleia2> thanks :)