[18:47] <jhodapp> alesage, ping
[18:47] <alesage> jhodapp, hallo
[18:47] <jhodapp> alesage, hey man, got an AP test problem I'm wondering if you can help shed some light on
[18:48] <jhodapp> alesage, take a look at this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jhodapp/mediaplayer-app/missing-codec-error-test/view/head:/tests/autopilot/mediaplayer_app/tests/test_player.py#L40
[18:48] <alesage> jhodapp, lay it on me
[18:48] <jhodapp> alesage, that function tries to get the error dialog, via this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jhodapp/mediaplayer-app/missing-codec-error-test/view/head:/tests/autopilot/mediaplayer_app/emulators/main_window.py#L55
[18:49] <alesage> jhodapp, ok
[18:49] <jhodapp> alesage, It never seems to be able to get the dialog from the mediaplayer-app QML
[18:49] <jhodapp> alesage, if you look at the test directly above that, it does the same thing and works, so I'm confused why this one isn't working
[18:49] <jhodapp> alesage, so the noMediaDialog one works
[18:50] <alesage> jhodapp, hmpf, I'd have to fire it up
[18:50] <jhodapp> alesage, error dialog here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jhodapp/mediaplayer-app/missing-codec-error-test/view/head:/src/qml/player/VideoPlayer.qml#L203
[18:51] <jhodapp> alesage, ok, if you've got a moment to try it out, you can get the latest media-hub and qtubuntu-media required to generate the errors from vivid silo 1
[18:52] <alesage> jhodapp, need to close a couple of other things first :)
[18:52] <jhodapp> alesage, sure thing, no rush
[18:53] <jhodapp> alesage, probably just missing something very simple
[19:58] <balloons> thomi, veebers are you guys open to autopilot having it's own site?
[20:07] <thomi> balloons: I think that would be a step backwards TBH
[20:07] <thomi> it'd make autopilot appear as a third class citizen
[20:08] <thomi> I don't understand what's so hard about making the current sphinx docs more integrated into the existing site
[20:08] <thomi> I don't think you need to mess around with json exporters and the like
[20:09] <thomi> (besides, I think the existing API docs are less useful than the ones we generate, but that might be a QMl <-> python difference, I'm not sure)
[20:09] <thomi> balloons: intersphinx is a system for linking between sphinx doc trees - you should be able to build something similar to allow linking between docs built in separate systems
[20:09] <balloons> thomi, the site itself is more or less handled by others on my team, so I play a small role. That said, obviously having all content under the CMS is preferred. Having autopilot be special has caused issues for everyone
[20:10] <thomi> Well... personally I think using a CMS for automatically generated documentation is a .... questionable choice
[20:10] <balloons> but I can easily forsee the generated html docs no longer existing and the content exported as json and forced into the site as-is
[20:11]  * balloons argued for a static site
[20:11] <thomi> I'm not saying the whole site needs to be static
[20:11] <thomi> just that it's silly to turn automatically generated content into content managed by a CMS
[20:11] <balloons> lol.. keep things seperate; it's the sane way
[20:11] <thomi> apart from anything else, consider the overhead!
[20:11] <balloons> the cms system can handle the content to push if you wish
[20:12]  * balloons looks at intersphinx
[20:12] <thomi> the only thing that's missing right now is for the autopilot docs to be linked to from other places
[20:14] <balloons> thomi, the docs as they are are going away. As it stands, I don't know a way you'll end up with the html you're generating
[20:15] <balloons> they live on a separate server and I can't update them.
[20:15] <balloons> nor is anyone keen to host them that way anymore
[20:18] <thomi> well, it looks like I need to leave this to veebers. I'm really dissappointed that the new developer.ubuntu.com site clearly wasn't designed to support autopilot.
[20:18] <thomi> I hope somehow that situation can be resolved. I'm not sure how we can ask people to use autopilot wihtout even hosting the documentation showehere
[20:19] <balloons> thomi, I guess if I can get one thing from you it would be what you would like to see so I understand your viewpoint. Would it be to have developer.ubuntu.com/autopilot featuring the html generated docs, with links from the content on developer.u.c?
[20:21] <thomi> I'd like to see the ap docs (both API and narrative docs) be a prominent part of the site, AND to not have the current quality of the documentation retarded by the underlying technology used.
[20:21] <balloons> ok, so "prominent" and intact then, as in, as generated by sphinx directly, a cohesive whole
[20:22] <thomi> additionally, from a technical point of view, it seems *insane* to me that the plan is to take static generated content and import it into a CMS, especially since we update the docs reasonably frequently, but if you can achieve the goals above, I don't mind much how you do it
[20:22] <veebers> balloons: I'm just OTP at the moment, will join the discussion soon :-)
[20:22] <thomi> balloons: if you can do the import trick, and manage to keep everything intact, then I'll be happy
[20:22] <thomi> balloons: but TBH that seems like it'd be difficult to me
[20:23] <thomi> I mean, certainbly possible, but why go to all that trouble? But if there's some good reason that I don't understand, then go for it!
[20:23] <balloons> thomi, I'm really on your side on this, which is why this is so maddening
[20:24] <thomi> sorry if I seem overly grumpy. From my perspective, ,we were *strongly* encouraged to move the docs to developer.u.c, and it's been nothing but failure after failure, so I'm quite short-temered about it now
[20:25] <balloons> thomi, hah, you are absolutely fine.
[20:26] <balloons> I personally have no idea how you would make the magic import work, and frankly I'd rather we didn't do it. But yes, the re-design has made things worse rather than better
[20:27] <balloons> we'll continue to look after it though
[20:40] <veebers> balloons: heh, I don't think I can add much more from what thomis said. I reaction is we could always put the docs on readthedocs, become a 3rd tier citizen and maybe update the launchpad site to have more info. That would make me sad :-(
[20:42] <balloons> veebers, I neither want autopilot to be third-tier, nor make you sad.
[20:43] <veebers> balloons: ^_^
[20:44] <balloons> I guess I am somewhat at a loss on how I can prevent that.. I feel like the current route make no one happy and is full of issues
[21:08] <balloons> veebers, re: description, heh; https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1413374
[21:08] <veebers> balloons: heh awesome thanks. I'll make sure that gets fixed
[21:08] <balloons> yea, that way I didn't have to bug you and you don't need to drop everything now :-)
[21:56] <balloons> veebers, thomi if you could recheck https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/autopilot/apdocs-restruct/+merge/246599
[21:56] <thomi> sure
[21:58] <thomi> balloons: all the "linkdescr" lines end in punctuation except "Tips to being out te test writer in you"
[21:58] <thomi> so that should have a '.'
[21:58] <balloons> kk
[21:58] <thomi> oh,a nd the two in the Indices and tables section
[21:58] <balloons> kk
[21:59] <veebers> sure
[22:04] <veebers> balloons: lgtm, bottom approved.
[22:04] <veebers> heh, I was looking at the MP while pulling the latest to build and got confused when there _was_ punctuation in my generated docs. Duh, you pushed the changes of course
[22:04] <balloons> awesome, I'll have at least one more for you this evening that does a little more expanding to the toc (add installation section)
[22:04] <balloons> veebers, sneaky me :-)
[22:05] <veebers> thomi: if you would like to yay/nay the question in your MP I would like to approve that too (https://code.launchpad.net/~thomir/autopilot/trunk-add-troubleshooting-docs/+merge/247093)
[22:06] <thomi> veebers: I don't see a question?
[22:07] <veebers> thomi: I set it as NF with a comment in the diff
[22:07] <thomi> oh wait, old diff
[22:07] <thomi> veebers: ok
[22:09] <thomi> veebers: pushed
[22:09]  * veebers looks
[22:10] <veebers> sweet, approved. Thanks
[22:26] <balloons> alright, how's about https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/autopilot/apdocs-install/+merge/247232 thomi and veebers ?
[22:26]  * thomi looks
[22:27] <thomi> balloons: did you remove the additional sections? the diff has changed and now I'm confused :D
[22:28] <balloons> thomi, ahh, sorry.. I saw whitespace changes and fixed them quickly.. this mp depends on the one you just reviewed. I moved the faq install question, attempted to fix it, and added a couple other faq questions related to it
[22:29] <thomi> balloons: ahh, ok
[22:29] <balloons> so the toc is now balanced again, and includes an install section :-)
[22:29] <thomi> balloons: LGTM
[22:31] <balloons> ohh right, need to add the ref for installing (i need it for the tutorial)
[22:32] <balloons> awesome..


[08:41] <dholbach> good morning
[10:17] <mdamt> What's the input method situation? I read in the spec that it will use onBoard, but it seems that mb-keyboard is used?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> yes, we're using matchbox-keyboard at the moment.
[11:59] <mdamt> Any plan to change it?
[12:00] <Mithrandir> not really, unless something better comes along.
[12:01] <mdamt> Ok, hope this something can come out this week :-)
[12:02] <Mithrandir> oh, anything interesting happening which I should be aware of?
[12:05] <mdamt> Well something about input method. We're trying to get it out this week. Watch planet.maemo.org :-)
[12:06] <Mithrandir> sounds interesting.
[12:51] <Mithrandir> asac: for #129469 to be fixed, do I need to do anything more than change the build-depends and configure.ac?  It doesn't seem like midbrowser-dev ships any shlibs?
[12:51] <asac> Mithrandir: carl wanted to look into it ... i haven't tried, but he claimed changing build-depends and configure.ac causes crashes
[12:52] <Mithrandir> asac: ok, anyway I think midbrowser-dev should ship a shlibs so packages built against it ends up having a dependency on it?
[12:53] <asac> Mithrandir: we don't have soname versioned libs
[12:53] <asac> if it still works i can add it ...
[12:53] <asac> and the libs are installed in pkglibdir as well
[12:54] <asac> Mithrandir: the main thing about all this is that upstream doesn't support using the shared libs directly ...
[12:54] <Mithrandir> I've read a little bit about it.  I think upstream are approaching this wrongly, but it's not a fight I'm willing to take on.
[12:54] <asac> Mithrandir: the upstream way is to use a static glue which will find and load the proper gecko runtime engine for you
[12:55] <asac> Mithrandir: right ... however we have now xulrunner-1.9 the upstream way and firefox build on top ... and indeed appears to work well
[12:55] <Mithrandir> ok, but we don't want xulrunner 1.9 and firefox both in main, AIUI?
[12:56] <asac> no ... thats just for preview (gutsy+1)
[12:56] <asac> but it shows that it works well and that debian claims that its sooo bad are mostly wrong
[12:56] <Mithrandir> so what do you think is the approach we should take?
[12:57] <asac> Mithrandir: i think the crashes we see are because LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not set for the panel
[12:57] <asac> Mithrandir: and basic flash is just a .so right?
[12:58] <asac> Mithrandir: however carl said if you run the panel with LD_LIBRARY_PATH extended by midbrowser path .... then the whole panel crashed
[12:59] <asac> ... which i find a bit scary ... if you can do a build an verify that extending LD_LIBRARY_PATH really crashes it then i can take a look.
[01:00] <asac> but i always hoped that intel would go ahead and put some effords in it as well :)
[01:00] <Mithrandir> I won't have time for that today, but I could look at it later this week, sure.
[01:00] <Mithrandir> I'll put in on my list of stuff to debug
[01:00] <asac> you don't need to debug ... i just want a senior confirming that behaviour before i start looking into it :)
[01:02] <asac> if the panel really crashes though ... i would appreciate some hints why it might crash when just adding /usr/lib/midbrowser to LD_LIBRARY_PATH ??
[01:02] <Mithrandir> I'd probably do it by adding an rpath for midbrowser to the .so instead, wouldn't that be better?
[01:03] <asac> Mithrandir: that probably won't work ... as the lib you load wants to load more libs that don't have the rpath set
[01:03] <asac> Mithrandir: the only option that would work is to link against all libs explicitly
[01:03] <asac> (only option with LD_LIBRARY_PATH and without using static glue)
[01:03] <asac> s/with/without/
[01:05] <Mithrandir> mhm
[01:05] <Mithrandir> ugh, but ok.
[01:05] <Mithrandir> I'll just test with LD_L_P set
[01:06] <asac> feel free to test rpath as well ... its just that i tried it for something else (can't remember exactly what it was) ... and I ended up linking all libs explicitly
[01:25] <asac> Mithrandir: my image-creator installed chroot is broken atm ... 1. the application menu is so huge that it doesn't fit on screen and if i click on the application switcher arrow in panel it crashes ... is that known?
[01:26] <asac> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/screen1.png
[01:26] <Mithrandir> the second one is known, the first one I didn't know about.-
[01:26] <Mithrandir> s/-//
[01:26] <asac> its a fresh image (created about 14 hours ago ... and just dist-upgraded)
[01:28] <asac> Mithrandir: currently everything is run as root ... how will this be in the end?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> that's on my list of stuff to fix this week
[01:29] <asac> oh cool
[01:36] <Mithrandir> kwwii_: have you looked at the UI for dates and tasks and contacts?  At least some people like the openmoko screenshots better than the maemo ones; do you know how much of this can be done with theming and what'll require code changes?
[01:36] <Mithrandir> kwwii_: or if you have any suggestions as to what the UI should look like.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> kwwii_: I'm not asking you to whip up something, just wondering if you'd already looked at it and had some thoughts.
[01:39] <kwwii> Mithrandir: I have never seen the openmoko stuff but I can take a look
[01:40] <Mithrandir> http://www.pimlico-project.org/dates.html has some screenshots.
[01:41] <kwwii> Mithrandir: the openmoko stuff looks much similar
[01:41] <kwwii> erm
[01:41] <kwwii> simpler
[01:41] <kwwii> but I think that most of that is coding, not theming from the looks
[01:42] <Mithrandir> ok; I guess the shiny buttons and such is just theming though
[03:42] <dholbach> asac: if you have the time, could you check out the bugs on http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring that have 'asac' next to them? most of them should be easy to review, I think
[03:46] <asac> dholbach: yes will upload ... for network-manager we probably don't want that fix
[03:46] <asac> but i am assigned so i will work this out
[03:46] <dholbach> asac: or just comment on the bug
[03:47] <dholbach> so the patch author knows what to fix or that it's not the right thing for gutsy
[03:54] <asac> done.
[08:23] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Just sent you an email regarding apps and what has been choosen.  Can you reply today ?
[08:23] <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Just did
[08:26] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Thanks!
[08:35] <MTecknology> this isn't really specific to mobile, but maybe somebody in here can help? I'm going to a university that doesn't broadcast their SSID. When I go anywhere else that is, I have a flawless time with wireless. They have two sets of SSID's, student1 and student2. What happens is that the network manager never seems to connect to the university wireless so I need to make separate profile for each. Does anybody know any solutions for
[08:35] <MTecknology>  this? I really want to be able to just use the roaming mode for all of my wireless.
[10:33] <bfiller> Mithrandir: are you there?
[10:56] <Mithrandir> bfiller: I am now
[10:56] <bfiller> I wanted to ask you how to use dput if you only have a .deb and not a .changes
[10:57] <bfiller> Mithrandir: should we just copy the .deb to our repository?
[10:57] <Mithrandir> that's one way, sure.
[10:58] <bfiller> Mithrandir: ok. wanted to make sure there wasn't a "preferred" way :)
[10:59] <Mithrandir> bfiller: the preferred way is to build the .deb so you do have a .changes
[11:00] <bfiller> Mithrandir: the package in question here is Skype. They only have a .deb on there site and no source to build from
[11:00] <bfiller> Mithrandir: we want to include it in our repo and add it to our fset
[11:00] <Mithrandir> ah, then just including it ought to work.
[11:03] <mdamt> Where can I see the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS env used in UME package builder?
[11:16] <Mithrandir> mdamt: they're unset.
[11:16] <mdamt> Ok thanks.
[11:17] <mdamt> And maemo-launcher support is not enabled either?
[11:24] <bspencer_> no agolivera today
[11:33] <Mithrandir> mdamt: no.
[11:33] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm off to bed.
[12:15] <HappyCamp> asac, you online?
[12:16] <asac> HappyCamp: what about?
[12:16] <HappyCamp> I just sent you an email regarding a bug we are seeing with regards to network-manager.
[12:16] <HappyCamp> I attached a patch file that I think fixes the issue.
[12:17] <asac> HappyCamp: the mail send to mobile list?
[12:17] <HappyCamp> Basically network-manager is doing dbus restarts in the postinstall script, even though we have setup a policy-rc.d file that says that services should not run.
[12:17] <HappyCamp> asac, yep.  I also CCed you directly
[12:17] <HappyCamp> It's a fairly simple change to the postinst script.
[12:17] <asac> "Patch to fix network-manager bug" ?? there is no CC
[12:18] <HappyCamp> I CCed you and the ubuntu-mobile mailing list
[12:19] <HappyCamp> I'm guessing you received it?  It was to ubuntu-mobile and to you at your @ubuntu.com email.
[12:19] <asac> yes i received the mail with subject above
[12:19] <asac> with lsbfix.patch
[12:20] <HappyCamp> That was from Todd.  I sent my own patch which I think might be better.
[12:20] <HappyCamp> My patch is to network-manager  debian/network-manager.postinst
[12:20] <asac> ok i have it
[12:21] <HappyCamp> Good :)  I was worried our mail servers sucked.
[12:21] <HappyCamp> I'd be interested to hear feedback on the patch.
[12:21] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: I take it you removed the restart of the network server?
[12:22] <ToddBrandt> oh, never mind, I see your patch
[12:22] <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt, I made it honor if we have a /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d file which says, don't start services.
[12:22] <HappyCamp> Which unfortunately network-manager currently will try to restart dbus services even if we don't want services to be changed.
[12:23] <ToddBrandt> ok, yea that's another angle at the bug, it's both there and in lsb-base
[12:23] <HappyCamp> asac the diff is to network-manager-(0.6.5-0ubuntu9
[12:24] <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir said he was going to have one of their NM guys look at it but that will speed things up
[12:24] <HappyCamp> So lsb-base has a bug where it does post-install service stuff?  Even if we don't want it to?
[12:24] <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt, I think asac is one of the Network Manager guy, well at least based on the changelog I am looking at.
[12:25] <asac> yes probably
[12:25] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: no it doesn't properly handle the case where tput returns a bad value
[12:25] <asac> ... you don't want dbus to be restarted? how does that fix the bug Todd's patch tried to tackle?
[12:26] <ToddBrandt> There's probably a thrid bug here too, somewhere in mobin-image-creator that causes the terminal characteristics to be muddled during an fset install
[12:26] <HappyCamp> asac, No idea on Todd's bug.  Todd's patch is probably a perfectly good patch.  I am just trying to fix the issue where services are getting restarted even though in our case we don't want it to.
[12:27] <asac> ok i thought because you replied to his patch mail it tries to replace that patch
[12:28] <HappyCamp> I was guessing that if my patch worked then lsb-base would not be getting involved.  But to be honest I don't know if that is the case.
[12:29] <asac> HappyCamp: what breaks for you because nm is restarting dbus?
[12:29] <HappyCamp> asac, Not that.  I think it breaks because of the last two things, where it restarts some of the dbus specific components.  If  that makes sense.
[12:30] <HappyCamp> This: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager restart
[12:30] <HappyCamp> and this: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/26NetworkManagerDispatcher restart
[12:30] <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: actually the bug is seen any time a service is stopped, started, or restarted from within package being installed/removed by moblin-image-creator
[12:30] <asac> HappyCamp: well ... we have to restart networkmanager in postinst
[12:30] <HappyCamp> I think mess us up.  The dbus service itself is called via invoke-rc.d which honors the policy-rc.d file.
[12:30] <HappyCamp> asac not if I don't want it to restart in my chroot.
[12:31] <asac> when don't you want that?
[12:31] <HappyCamp> I would think, if I don't want it to restart in my chroot then it should not.
[12:31] <asac> i mean postinst is invoked when you receive a software update
[12:31] <HappyCamp> Moblin Image Creator is doing it inside a chroot environement.
[12:31] <asac> so it needs to restart
[12:32] <HappyCamp> Okay, maybe I am confused.  I want to stop it when we install the package.  Which I thought was when postinst gets called.
[12:32] <asac> yes, but that doesn't matter much ... the nm service needs to be restarted
[12:32] <HappyCamp> My patch should not affect anything except for the case when invoke-rc.d says don't install.
[12:32] <asac> HappyCamp: do you don't want to start it if its not running before?
[12:32] <HappyCamp> asac, Even in a chroot?
[12:33] <HappyCamp> I don't want anything things to be running in my chroot, service wise.
[12:33] <asac> HappyCamp: if you don't restart it in a chroot you cannot test it ...
[12:33] <HappyCamp> Well we have created /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d to return 101
[12:33] <HappyCamp> Which means that services should not be run.
[12:33] <asac> but we are already running dbus in that chroot, right?
[12:33] <HappyCamp> We did this because a lot of applications do a postinstall script which dies when we are doing our install.
[12:34] <HappyCamp> I don't think dbus should get started, unless we are doing it when we do a terminal.
[12:34] <HappyCamp> But that would not be during the install.  Currently our installs our broken.
[12:35] <HappyCamp> Now I don't know for sure if dbus is or is not getting started when we install it.
[12:35] <asac> hmm
[12:37] <asac> ok i am a bit unsure at the moment ... but its late so this doesn't really mean a thing :)
[12:37] <asac> i will take a second look tomorrow and if good apply it
[12:37] <HappyCamp> asac, We can wait until tomorrow.  No problem.
[12:37] <HappyCamp> I just wanted network-manager to honor us using /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d   even if maybe we shouldn't be using it in such a blanket method.
[12:38] <asac> how critical is that?
[12:38] <asac> i mean i think it should be ok to have this in network-manager ... but i would like to batch this with the next upload i have to do anyways
[12:38] <HappyCamp> Well we haven't been able to automatically build images since Thursday.  We have a workaround (manually install network-manager) but we would appreciate it getting fixed.
[12:38] <asac> ok
[12:39] <asac> why did it break since thursday?
[12:39] <asac> what has changed?
[12:39] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, changed the ubuntu-mobile package, I think.
[12:39] <HappyCamp> To bring in network-manager.
[12:39] <asac> ok ... good
[12:39] <asac> (or not so good :))
[12:39] <HappyCamp> Before we weren't using network-manager.
[12:40] <HappyCamp> Thanks for your help.  Have a good night.
[12:41] <asac> HappyCamp: have you tested if it breaks anything in normal gutsy install?
[12:44] <HappyCamp> asac, I tried it on my gutsy system:  sh ./network-manager.postinst configure
[12:44] <asac> ok
[12:44] <HappyCamp> And that worked.  But no, have not done a complete install :(
[12:44] <asac> no thats fine then
[12:47] <asac> HappyCamp: next time please submit a bug and maybe send a mailing list nag mail :)
[12:48] <HappyCamp> asac, Okay.  Will do.  I'm guessing bugs are on launchpad.net ??
[12:48] <asac> butits fine now :)
[12:48] <asac> HappyCamp: yes
[12:48] <asac> bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s ... %s=sourcepackagename
[12:50] <HappyCamp> asac, thanks


 Picks music with a beat that matches ambient sounds at the time
[17:25] <snap-l> I like the instrumental stuff
[17:25] <snap-l> but man, someone starts bluegrass singing, and I want to beat someone senseless with a bango
[17:25] <snap-l> banjo, even
[17:26] <jrwren> Alison Krauss's first 3 albums are excellent.
[17:26] <jrwren> i don't like the country twang sound of some bluegrass, including vox.
[17:27] <jrwren> but when the vox aren't country twang reminicent, I often like them.
[17:27] <snap-l> Yeah, i can't stand twang
[17:27] <jrwren> did you like Steve Martin's The Crow New Songs for the 5-String Banjo ?
[17:28] <jrwren> its mostly instrumental
[17:28] <snap-l> Honestly I have yet to hear it
[17:28]  * greg-g likes bluegrass
[17:28] <snap-l> It's on my eventually listen to it list.
[17:28] <jrwren> give it a listen, it is good.
[17:28] <jrwren> and IMO Alison Krauss's first 3 albums define new-bluegrass
[17:28] <jrwren> which left that twang behind.
[17:28] <snap-l> Yeah, I don't mind instrumental bluegrass
[17:28] <jrwren> although 1 song per album might have that nasty twang.
[17:28] <snap-l> it's very much like Thrash picking
[17:29] <jrwren> what kind do you like greg-g ?
[17:29] <greg-g> I like a lot of it, honestly
[17:29] <snap-l> Umphrey's McGee's Anchor Drops has a twangy song in the middle of it
[17:29] <greg-g> even some twangy stuff, like "outlaw country" (eg: Willie, Kris Kristopherson, etc)
[17:29] <brousch> snap-l: We agree on this
[17:30] <brousch> Bluegrass is good as long as it's fast and no one is singing
[17:30] <jrwren> i even like some of the slow ones.
[17:30] <flipsidecreation> yup
[17:30] <brousch> No
[17:31] <jrwren> and because of this conversation I shall transition from listening to Nightwish to Punch Brothers.
[17:31] <snap-l> I want to know when Kris Kristopherson became "outlaw" anything
[17:31]  * greg-g is still listening to Drone Zone, might switch to Boot Liquor sometime
[17:33] <snap-l> I mean, by this definition, Ray Stevens should be Outlaw Country. ;)
[17:33] <jrwren> greg-g: is drone zone what it sounds like?
[17:33] <snap-l> 'aint seeing it.
[17:34] <jrwren> i'm just realizing I like Xandria way more than I like Nightwish.
[17:34] <rick_h_> greg-g: https://ec2-23-20-230-72.compute-1.amazonaws.com/sidebar/precise/mediawiki-8/ is a better view vs my phone last night
[17:35] <brousch> greg-g: Want me to record the sound of my server fans so you can listen to it like music?
[17:35] <greg-g> jrwren: yeah, from SomaFM
[17:36] <jrwren> take a soma and drone.
[17:41] <greg-g> rick_h_: neat. btw, this is the url I voiced to uhhh, marco and the other dude last night re all of our puppet configs: https://noc.wikimedia.org/
[17:41] <rick_h_> greg-g: cool
[17:42] <rick_h_> greg-g: passed along
[17:42] <greg-g> thankya
[17:53] <greg-g> rick_h_: wait, am I able to actually spin up instances with this url?
[17:54] <greg-g> "addr-153.example.com" suggests not, but just making sure because I did 100 mediawikis and it says "started" next to all of them :)
[17:56]  * brousch starts up 10,000 mediawikis!
[17:56] <greg-g> :)
[17:57]  * greg-g destroys them
[17:57] <brousch> I will turn all of Amazon into mediawikis!
[18:09] <rick_h_> greg-g: not currently. It's 'demo' environment.
[18:09] <greg-g> whew
[18:10] <rick_h_> greg-g: now if you were to juju  boostrap into ec2, and deploy this gui, you could use the gui to deploy in there
[18:10] <rick_h_> greg-g: oh...heh yea I guess you can
[18:10] <rick_h_> yea, this is hidden demo version so yea please be kind shouldn't have lost it out
[18:11] <greg-g> I sure hope I didn't rack up a lot of charges for you with the 200 things I "deployed"
[18:11] <rick_h_> greg-g: well, .08 per and it's on another guy's card atm so not me :)
[18:11] <greg-g> 100 mw, 50 memcache, 50 mysql, just to see what the UI was like
[18:11] <greg-g> :)
[18:11] <rick_h_> heh, yea my bad not warning you on that
[18:11] <rick_h_> oh well, no one knows it was me :)
[18:12] <snap-l> save for the log bot
[18:12] <rick_h_> curses!
[18:12] <rick_h_> well they have to know to grep this file
[18:12] <snap-l> Isn't that what the logbot is for?
[18:12] <snap-l> instagrep to Mark Shuttleworth's ears
[18:13]  * greg-g just made Canonical insolvent
[18:13] <snap-l> guess they'll have to burn down a few orphanages just to make payroll
[18:13] <snap-l> tragic
[18:15] <rick_h_> hey, that's my check you're talking about there
[18:15] <snap-l> Sadly I think burning down orphanages is the least likely to get Canonical on the front page of reddit
[18:16] <snap-l> "Changes to X" =blarghahharhasfdhashasfdsdf
[18:16] <snap-l> "Changes to packaging" = blarghahaharahrahdfasdhasd
[18:16] <snap-l> "Burned down orphanages" = *crickets*
[18:17] <brousch> When is Canonical going to fork the kernel in a backwards-incompatible way?
[18:17] <snap-l> I wish they'd just burn down orphanages instead of making an ABI change
[18:18] <greg-g> brousch: they haven't?
[18:19] <brousch> greg-g: I haven't heard Linus cursing at Canonical yet, so i assume not
[18:19] <greg-g> I'm sure he's flipped them off once or twice
[18:20] <greg-g> but, he's probably flipped me off once or twice, too
[18:26] <snap-l> How do I get into this esteemed club?
[18:29] <greg-g> snap-l: You have an opinion.
[18:58] <snap-l> greg-g: I'll need to work on that. Any book syou can recommend to get an opinion? :)
[19:06] <greg-g> no opinion
[19:16] <snap-l> greg-g: No opinion eh?
[19:16] <snap-l> http://ur1.ca/drs9u <- greg-g
[19:19] <flipsidecreation> HA!
[19:20] <greg-g> :P
[19:25] <flipsidecreation> Animated version is better http://i.imgur.com/Fna6i.gif
[19:25] <flipsidecreation> and this http://i.imgur.com/zs1ve.png
[19:26] <snap-l> That last one looks freaky
[19:26] <snap-l> like painting in a Mexican restaurant freaky
[19:32] <flipsidecreation> yeah, for sure


[11:12] <seetaramhegde> Hello everyone!! This is Seetaram Hegde, resident of Bangalore, India
[11:12] <seetaramhegde> I have recently joined Ubuntu QA team
[11:12] <seetaramhegde> I have 10+ years of experience in QA with manual and automated testing
[11:12] <seetaramhegde> I have subscribed to mailing list