[12:32] <ico2> gnomefreak, seems to be working   THANKS!!!
[12:32] <gnomefreak> yw
[01:22] <jimp> The 2007/06/13 gutsy-desktop-powerpc+ps3.iso snapshot doesn't seem to work on the PS3.  Is there a workaround or suggested snapshot image that does?
[01:24] <crimsun> more precisely, please.
[01:25] <jimp> It hangs at the kexec ("Booting system.."
[01:25] <jimp> I figured I'd check to see if this was known before I track it down further.
[01:25] <crimsun> that's more useful. Check linux-source-2.6.22 bugs.
[01:28] <jimp> I saw nothing about it on launchpad, if that's what you mean.
[01:33] <crimsun> would be useful as a report, then.
[01:34] <jimp> ok, I'll poke around and try to figure out what's going on first.
[01:37] <h1st0> okay I'm banned from ubuntu thats nice
[01:37] <h1st0> How'd that happen?
[01:40] <h1st0> Any ops around? *wake up*
[01:42] <crimsun> this is not the channel for such matters.
[01:43] <h1st0> I found the right channel.
[03:16] <tominglis> hey is it possible to upgrade to gutsy from feisty just now?
[03:16] <grumpymole> yes
[03:17] <tominglis> what is the command that i need to use?
[03:18] <grumpymole> a few options: 1 = download a gutsy CD and insert when you insert that, feisty should ask if you want to upgrade
[03:21] <grumpymole> 2 = edit /etc/apt/sources.lst and change all occurrences of feisty to gusty.  then apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade
[03:21] <grumpymole> option 2 will have lots of updates, obviously
[03:21] <grumpymole> i did this recently
[03:23] <grumpymole> also, for option 2, you will need to prefix those commands with sudo, as they need to execute as root
[03:24] <tominglis> oh ok
[03:24] <tominglis> easy peasy
[03:24] <tominglis> thanks dude
[03:24] <tominglis> is everything broken in gutsy? i do love bug reporting :)
[03:24] <grumpymole> actually, for me, it is working well
[03:25] <tominglis> ok, well i will give it a go
[03:25] <tominglis> does it have 2.6.21?
[03:25] <grumpymole> it depends on which apps you might use.  my feisty install kept freezing the machine, but gutsy is great
[03:25] <calc> tominglis: 2.6.22 i think
[03:25] <tominglis> oh ok that is excellent
[03:25] <grumpymole> 2.6.22-6
[03:25] <calc> Linux ccheney-desktop 2.6.22-6-generic #1 SMP Fri Jun 1 19:24:12 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
[03:25] <calc> yea
[03:26] <tominglis> it has support for my soundcard's input and my tv card and webcam i think
[03:26] <tominglis> thanks guys
[03:26] <tominglis> you are legendary
[03:26] <tominglis> t
[03:26] <grumpymole> no probs
[03:58] <Zelut> anyone have any hints on getting gutsy installed with kvm and qemu?  any time I try it can't find the cdrom and b0rks.
[04:27] <Zelut> I'm using sudo qemu -hda gutsy.img -cdrom gutsy-alternate-i386.iso -boot d -m 384
[04:28] <Zelut> this will load the CD but the installer borks on trying to load the cdrom.
[04:29] <Toma-> try -novm ?
[04:30] <Toma-> or whatever that option is
[04:33] <Zelut> I don't see any similar options on the man page..
[05:48] <jimp> Zelut: -no-kvm
[05:52] <spike723> hello
[06:00] <Zelut> jimp: "qemu: invalid option -- '-no-kvm'"
[06:00] <jimp> Zelut: that's probably not the kvm modified version of qemu, in that case.. so your problem is not related to kvm at least :)
[06:01] <Zelut> jimp: hmm.. I'm using the version of qemu that was a dependency of kvm.
[06:02] <jimp> I'm not sure how the packaging was done.  typically when you get kvm there's a qemu-system-x86_64 or similar that is the kvm enabled version
[06:03] <Zelut> I wonder what I need to do to get the kvm modified version of qemu.
[06:03] <Zelut> all I want to do is test gutsy in kvm. is that so much to ask :)
[07:43] <DanaG> ALSA lib confmisc.c:1286:(snd_func_refer) Unable to find definition 'defaults.namehint.extended'
[07:48] <DanaG> Later:             ALSA lib pcm.c:2144:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM dmix:Intel
[07:49] <crimsun> are you using an asoundrc?
[07:49] <crimsun> if so, you need to refresh
[07:49] <crimsun> every alsa-lib version upgrade adds new paramaters; you must sync them.
[07:50] <crimsun> I really do document this stuff in the changelogs.
[07:50] <crimsun> Read alsa-utils's changelog.
[08:02] <DanaG> Oh, I'm using the hg version.
[08:02] <DanaG> Is there an easy way to force-reinstall the packaged alsa-libs?
[08:02] <tritium> DanaG: apt-get has a --reinstall option
[08:02] <DanaG> Oh, I see -- alsa-utils failed to install, so .asoundrc.asoundconf is missing things -- either that, or it's the other way around,
[08:03] <DanaG> That first parameter IS set in .asoundrc.asoundconf, but it's not reading it.
[08:06] <DanaG> aah. remove and re-add .asoundrc.asoundconf -- now missing defaults.pcm.dmix.format, but that's just a matter of copying from the one with the last dot as an underscore.
[08:11] <DanaG> I'm too tired to deal with it now -- I purged and reinstalled those packaged, but I still get the same error.
[08:13] <crimsun> no dude
[08:13] <crimsun> asoundconf set-default-card enumerates all the required ones
[08:13] <crimsun> the default section of /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf
[08:16] <DanaG> I do aplay and I still get the same error.
[08:16] <DanaG> Oh, I have an idea: purge the packages again, make uninstall the nonpackaged ones, then reinstall the packaged ones.
[08:23] <DanaG> It seems like no matter what I do, I get either Unable to find definition 'defaults.pcm.dmix.format'  or  the other one (extended...).
[08:24] <DanaG> The .asoundrc.asoundconf has defaults.pcm.dmix_format S32_LE
[08:26] <DanaG> I need to go to bed now; I'll deal with it tomorrow.
[11:38] <_4strO> yop
[01:31] <Emanon> I'm looking for beta testers for an application I wrote called TimeVault that allows you to roll back files to a previous version (like Apple's TimeMachine). Screenshots, initial docs, and .deb installer is on Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/timevault/+download
[01:34] <jrib> -offtopic is still better
[01:44] <dendrobates> Sorry for a dumb question, but where are the nightly builds kept?
[01:45] <varka> dendrobates: i dont know nightly builds, only daily builds and the current one is here http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[01:46] <dendrobates> much obliged.
[01:49] <Emanon> Anyone trying to PM me, I'm not registered on this server so I can't PM
[01:49] <xerosis> Emanon: I did
[01:49] <xerosis> but I answered my question now :)
[01:50] <Emanon> :)
[01:51] <matilda2006> I have 2 specific problem in ubuntu, can anyone help me?
[01:52] <matilda2006> emanon, I have 2 hdd - hdda & hddb
[01:52] <matilda2006> ok
[01:53] <matilda2006> in hdda I have XP installed, in hddb I want to install ubuntu. Is it possible?
[01:53] <jrib> matilda2006: you are installing gutsy?
[01:54] <matilda2006> what is gutsy?
[01:54] <jrib> matilda: it's the development version of ubuntu which is often borken and shouldn't be used by regular users.  This is the support channel for it.  For help with ubuntu, you should ask in #ubuntu
[01:55] <matilda> #ubuntu is not helpful, noone answered me, I wasted a lot of time there.
[01:56] <matilda> Time has a value to me.
[01:56] <jrib> to most people I assume
[01:56] <matilda> I am not intalling that develoment version.
[01:57] <jrib> matilda: you should repeat your question every 20 minutes or so, but you should do so in #ubuntu.  There are other support options as well
[01:57] <jrib> !support > matilda (see the private message from ubotu)
[01:57] <matilda> I downloaded the live cd.
[01:57] <shirish> jrib: I had filed a bug against gutsy , can somebody check https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/120337
[01:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120337 in boinc "boinc fails to be authorized " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[01:57] <shirish> matilda: I have done a tutorial on a forum, lemme just find it
[01:58] <shirish> matilda: lol, there is a far far better way
[01:58] <jrib> shirish: never played with boinc
[01:58] <shirish> matilda ok go to fullcirclemagazine.com & download the e-mag there
[01:58] <shirish> the latest release has full instructions for it.
[01:58] <shirish> jrib: can u just check if something is broken, I was not able to connect with the local machine
[01:59] <matilda> You sure there is a full instruction or I will cry.
[01:59] <jrib> shirish: if I get a chance later, I'll comment
[02:00] <matilda> let me check
[02:00] <shirish> matilda: there is enough for you, if you want to try the alternate installer then you can check my article
[02:00] <matilda> ok
[02:00] <matilda> let me check first
[02:01] <matilda> shirirsh: u r wim?
[02:02] <matilda> shirish: u r wim?
[02:03] <shirish> matilda: hang on, net is kinda slow here atm
[02:03] <matilda> I understan.
[02:03] <shirish> matilda: http://www.techenclave.com/forums/installing-ubuntu-feisty-7-04-through-89192.html?highlight=ubuntu
[02:04] <shirish> http://www.techenclave.com/forums/installing-ubuntu-feisty-7-04-through-89765.html
[02:04] <shirish> but but of them are for the alternate installers
[02:05] <shirish> actually the 1st one is of install, the 2nd is of customizing a bit.
[02:05] <matilda> I have a live cd, I tried to install from that.
[02:05] <shirish> matilda: http://www.fullcirclemagazine.org/ that is the magazine, see issue 1
[02:06] <shirish> its a 6 MBish .pdf file with photos & all
[02:06] <matilda> I have downloade it.
[02:06] <matilda> let me read it for a while and I will come back.
[02:07] <matilda> Please be here.
[02:07] <shirish> I'm here for a while
[02:08] <matilda> I don't whether you are a man or woman but you are the most helpful person here.
[02:08] <shirish> if you run into issues, just take my name so I know somebody needs me
[02:08] <shirish> doesn't really matter as far as things get done.
[02:08] <matilda> I need you and want to be your friend.
[02:08] <matilda> Any problem?
[02:10] <matilda> I have another question for you shirish.
[02:10] <shirish> matilda: shoot
[02:10] <shirish> btw I'm a guy
[02:10] <matilda> very good
[02:11] <matilda> is that pdf has the solution for dual booting?
[02:12] <matilda> I can't cheech that fully right now for it has 42 x 2 = 84 pages
[02:12] <matilda> I suppose.
[02:12] <shirish> i skimmed over it, but it should have, its supposed to be for newbies
[02:12] <matilda> then it will be good for me also.
[02:13] <matilda> where do you live?
[02:16] <shirish> matilda: these kind of questions are not entertained here
[02:16] <shirish> if you want to chat there is #ubuntu-offtopic for that purpose
[02:17] <matilda> you hurt me, sorry for my question, I apologize. Pls don't mind.
[02:17] <matilda> Thank u for your help.
[02:59] <xerosis> has anyone had any sound problems?
[03:28] <crimsun> xerosis: ...a bit lacking on details, there.
[03:29] <xerosis> crimsun: well my sound has stopped but it could easily be my hardware, was seeing if anyone else had any problems
[03:29] <crimsun> again, lacking details
[03:29] <xerosis> crimsun: i don't have any details :p
[03:30] <crimsun> it's a bit difficult to diagnose/troubleshoot when you don't even try
[03:31] <xerosis> well it's kubuntu, everything worked fine yesterday, everything's completely silent today
[03:31] <xerosis> all apps seem to be playing, no output
[03:31] <xerosis> all umuted etc
[03:31] <xerosis> *unmuted
[03:31] <crimsun> right, still lacking details.
[03:31] <crimsun> please read http://www.linux-sound.info/alsa/index.php?task=support and tell me the URL of the paste generated by the alsa-info.sh script linked from that page.
[03:33] <xerosis> crimsun: sorry for being vague, i just know it's going to be something obvious, could be my lead connecting the computer to my hifi...
[03:36] <xerosis> crimsun: http://pastebin.ca/566473
[03:39] <crimsun> xerosis: what does `aplay /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav` return?
[03:39] <crimsun> ...
[03:39] <crimsun> why are you installing alsa-utils?
[03:40] <xerosis> aplay is in alsa-utils?
[03:40] <crimsun> please don't tell me you removed it
[03:40] <xerosis> i never had it
[03:40] <crimsun> uh...
[03:40] <crimsun> ok, I know I didn't break desktop that badly
[03:40] <crimsun> did you install from server or some other means?
[03:41] <xerosis> nope, just kubuntu feisty -> gutsy
[03:41] <xerosis> don't think it removed anything
[03:41] <crimsun> kubuntu feisty _definitely_ ships with alsa-utils
[03:42] <xerosis> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25545/
[03:42] <crimsun> ah, the alsa-lib skew
[03:42] <crimsun> asoundconf set-default-card Live
[03:43] <crimsun> then try try the aplay command again
[03:43] <xerosis> yay sound :)
[03:43] <crimsun> I really do document this stuff in the changelogs
[03:43] <crimsun> I suspect I'll be repeating myself for the next few weeks until people learn to actually read changelogs for new packages
[03:44] <xerosis> sorry, i wouldn't usually read an alsa changelog, i should start
[03:44] <crimsun> it's documented in the alsa-utils changelog
[03:44] <crimsun> the Ubuntu changelog
[03:45] <xerosis> crimsun: thanks for your help, i promise to read more changelogs :)
[03:46] <crimsun> I strongly recommend you do so.  You're running a development branch where people are expected to act proactively and intelligently.
[03:48] <xerosis> the changelog still means nothing to me
[03:49] <crimsun> I'll make it even more explicit next time, then.
[04:22] <soc> does someone know the status/progress of upstart?
[04:23] <crimsun> makes sense to ask in its dev channel.
[04:23] <crimsun> also, a more precise question would undoubtedly be appreciated by Scott et al.
[04:23] <soc> sorry, ok
[04:23] <soc> seems half of the channels on freenode are somehow ubuntu-related ...
[04:23] <soc> :-P
[04:24] <soc> yet another channel ...
[05:01] <akrus> New Ubuntu icons are so cute!!!
[05:01] <akrus> go go ubuntu!
[05:01] <Toma-> pics?
[05:02] <akrus> nah
[05:02] <akrus> updated synaptic
[05:02] <akrus> and restarted it
[05:02] <akrus> :)
[05:03] <akrus> looks better now :)
[05:03] <Toma-> i c!
[05:03] <akrus> friend of mine has just installed Kubuntu, trying it :)
[06:20] <jimp> crimsun: tjos
[06:20] <jimp> crimsun: oops sorry.  this "alsa-lib skew", I don't see any mention of that in
[06:20] <jimp> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/a/alsa-utils/alsa-utils_1.0.14-1ubuntu1/changelog
[06:20] <jimp> am I just blind?
[06:35] <novello> hi, i've upgraded to gutsy, but libc6 give me some problem, can i downgrade to old libc6? i can't do it by synaptic without remove gnome.... what i can do?
[06:36] <calc> novello: reinstall feisty
[06:36] <novello> :( you have the same problem?
[06:39] <calc> novello: no, but you can't easily downgrade glibc
[06:39] <calc> novello: i'm running gutsy on my desktop and feisty on my laptop
[06:39] <novello> on desktop you have the new libc6?
[06:40] <gnomefreak> dont ever change the version of libc6
[06:40] <gnomefreak> you will end up with nothing but problems
[06:41] <novello> ok, thanks
[06:44] <novello> if i use kde that problems are still?
[07:14] <stefg> Hi, how broken is gutsy at this moment? I just want to have a look, and could upgrade a Feisty-VM (copy). r is it more advisable to go the long way and install tribe1 from  scratch?
[07:15] <Hobbsee> stefg: either works.  doesnt seem too broken at the moment, at least here
[07:15] <crimsun> it's horribly broken.
[07:15] <crimsun> don't use it.
[07:15] <stefg> ok, thx... so an upgrade will do. Just wanted to avoid to dist-upgrade into a currently broken state
[07:16] <stefg> crimsun: i don't want to use it, i just want to have a look :-)
[07:17] <stefg> !upgrade
[07:17] <ubotu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
[07:22] <pwnguin> afaik, the updater's broke
[07:23] <stefg> i go cli anyway
[07:23] <pwnguin> it's been documented, confirmed, investigated, patched and is waiting on one of the core devs to notice
[07:23] <Hobbsee> that...goes without saying
[07:23] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: consider it noticed.
[07:23] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: no point in doing anything about it yet, though.
[07:24] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: bug #?  i wonder what the patch says
[07:24] <pwnguin> why's that?
[07:24] <stefg> Actually i can't recall having seen the updater /not/ broken during the last 3 releases to some degree :-\
[07:24] <pwnguin> the patch says "import os"
[07:24] <Hobbsee> ah right
[07:24] <pwnguin> i probably made the patch wrong
[07:25] <pwnguin> but it's such a trivial fix
[07:25] <Hobbsee> mainly because everything's still changing a lot
[07:28] <pwnguin> bug 118862 if you're still looking for it
[07:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118862 in update-manager "update-manager -c -d DOESN'T work for going to Gutsy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118862
[07:28] <stefg> BTW has anyone attempted to move an install out of a VM to a real partition (not running in VM-Ware). Anything special required to make the install aware of the new hardware, besides obvious things like xorg not running on the vmware-driver any longer?
[07:29] <stefg> and the grub stuff ofcourse
[07:29] <pwnguin> what i dont get is how the automatic dist-upgrade testing spec can be in beta and not have found this
[07:30] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: well thats mean
[07:30] <Hobbsee> why?
[07:30] <Hobbsee> the transitional packages, etc, arent in place yet, because gutsy *keeps changing*
[07:32] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: so that newbies cant automatically run it, and suddenly find themselves running gutsy, basically
[07:32] <Hobbsee> because it doesnt clean-upgrade yet.  or didnt, pre-herd1.
[07:32] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: the metapackages (*-desktop) arent even installable a lot of the time.
[07:32] <Hobbsee> so the upgrader will die regardless
[07:33] <crimsun> oh right, I can blame Hobbsee now for core damage
[07:33] <Hobbsee> when did you upgrade?
[07:33] <Hobbsee> herd ?
[07:33] <Hobbsee> crimsun: no you cant.
[07:33] <crimsun> hurrah.
[07:33] <Hobbsee> although i need to fix some of hte herd 2 milestoned bugs.
[07:33] <stefg> Hobbsee: it's tribes now, no more herds...
[07:34] <Hobbsee> s/herds/tribes/
[07:34] <pwnguin> sometime after tribe 1 i upgraded
[07:34] <crimsun> blame the customers.
[07:34] <pwnguin> since, go figure, just pulling the gutsy kernel into feisty wasn't working perfectly ;)
[07:34] <PriceChild> *groan*
[07:34] <Hobbsee> stefg: it's habit, i'm afraid.  i grammar/sanity checked too many of hte herd releases
[07:34] <Hobbsee> crimsun: oh i do, i do.  batshit insane lady that she was.
[07:35] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: everything was installable then, iirc.  from main, at least
[07:37] <pwnguin> if you honestly don't want anyone to use dist-upgrade, wouldn't removing whatever upgrade-manager polls to find new releases do the trick?
[07:37] <PriceChild> pwnguin, wel that is done... because it won't work unless you give it forcing options...
[07:38] <PriceChild> -c -d or w/e
[07:38] <pwnguin> indeed
[07:38] <Hobbsee> that's done in adept.  release notes dont exist yet.
[07:38] <Hobbsee> not sure how the ubuntu one gets around that either, tbh.
[07:40] <pwnguin> at any rate, this is too much effort to waste on a silly "can't possibly work" bug.
[07:43] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: there was a major update on the 13th...you've checked if that actually fixes the bug, presumably?
[07:43] <pwnguin> in feisty?
[07:44] <Hobbsee> no, in gutsy
[07:44] <Hobbsee> randomly backporting things to gutsy is bad
[07:45] <Hobbsee> withou ttesting
[07:45] <Hobbsee> er to feisty
[07:45] <pwnguin> it would be pretty hard to test that i think
[07:46] <pwnguin> it should discover "hey, theres no new dev version"
[07:46] <pwnguin> and not bother running the python code that fails
[07:46] <gnomefreak> dont use the -d flag and you wont have that problem
[07:50] <pwnguin> gnomefreak: duly noted.
[07:53] <DanaG> Odd, when I do asoundconf set-default-cad Intel,
[07:53] <DanaG> then aplay -L no longer shows iec958.
[07:53] <DanaG> I also get:    ALSA lib confmisc.c:1286:(snd_func_refer) Unable to find definition 'defaults.pcm.dmix.format'
[07:54] <DanaG> .asoundrc.asoundconf sets this:                 defaults.pcm.dmix_format S32_LE
[07:55] <crimsun> that's correct.
[08:00] <DanaG> Even with the difference of format?
[08:00] <DanaG> I mean, dot versus underscore.
[08:01] <DanaG> Later on, I get "Unknown PCM dmix:Intel"
[08:02] <crimsun> it needs to be full stops.
[08:04] <DanaG> What's odd is that asoundconf is making it with underscores.
[08:05] <crimsun> yes, it's a bug
[08:05] <crimsun> I've fixed it
[08:05] <crimsun> try http://trilug.org/~crimsun/asoundconf
[08:05] <DanaG> Once I fix that, I get "Unable to find definition 'defaults.namehint.extended'" -- even though .asoundrc.asoundconf has it defined.  Is that the same bug and fix?
[08:06] <crimsun> you need to rerun asoundconf set-default-card
[08:06] <crimsun> are you using gutsy's alsa-lib?
[08:06] <DanaG> I've gone back to it.
[08:06] <gnomefreak> crimsun: that link is a 404
[08:06] <DanaG> I purged and reinstalled everything related to alsa and libasound.
[08:06] <gnomefreak> well not found
[08:07] <DanaG> Link works for me.
[08:07] <gnomefreak> oh that was irssis fault
[08:07] <gnomefreak> it added the time in there
[08:08] <DanaG> With the linked asoundconf, it fixes the underscore-versus-dot issue, but the other issue is still there.
[08:10] <DanaG> aplay: version 1.0.14 by Jaroslav Kysela<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:11] <crimsun> redownload
[08:12] <DanaG> Redownload what -- package, or source?
[08:13] <crimsun> the script, but hold
[08:13] <crimsun> I think I've found an autotools bug
[08:14] <hbx-07> hi
[08:14] <DanaG> Oh, I see, I redownloaded it under a different name -- then diff'd it.
[08:14] <DanaG> I can never remember which way the arrows point in a diff.
[08:14] <hbx-07> if i follow this guide here http://blog.mypapit.net/2007/06/how-to-setup-tor-and-privoxy-in-ubuntu-feisty-fawn.html some proxy test site still shows my IP. any ideas how to troubleshoot that?
[08:17] <pwnguin> DanaG: i find -Naur works best
[08:18] <pwnguin> DanaG: + and -'s seems to make more sense to me
[08:18] <gnomefreak> hbx-07: feisty support is in #ubuntu
[08:19] <hbx-07> asking on a 1000 user channel is pointless
[08:20] <gnomefreak> hbx-07: this channel wont answer you. ask in #ubuntu or #kubuntu
[08:20] <pwnguin> then use answers.launchpad.com
[08:21] <hbx-07> IRC support is a royal pain in the anus. everywhere.
[08:21] <pwnguin> err
[08:21] <pwnguin> .net
[08:21] <gnomefreak> hbx-07: try #launchpad if its strictly iRC
[08:21] <pwnguin> #launchpad?
[08:22] <DanaG> Oh yeah, now it doesn't put those lines in .asoundrc.asoundconf, but I still get the same message.
[08:22] <gnomefreak> yes tor is a way to connect to IRC
[08:23] <gnomefreak> it does other things as well
[08:23] <pwnguin> ah. good point
[08:23] <pwnguin> but why launchpad instead of #freenode?
[08:23] <gnomefreak> oh thats what i meant
[08:23] <gnomefreak> sorry
[08:24] <gnomefreak> he was gone anyway
[08:25] <DanaG> I noticed: the instructions he linked to don't set it to be used for HTTP.
[08:26] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: i think the output you are looking for is only outputed in -ops
[08:26] <PriceChild> true
[08:26] <gnomefreak> unless it was opened up for other channels
[08:26] <crimsun> DanaG: please redownload the script
[08:27] <crimsun> DanaG: remember to nuke ~/.asoundrc* (or back it up out of the way) first, then rerun asoundconf set-default-card foo
[08:27] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: :)
[08:27] <hwilde> is there any reason why the ethernet devices swap names on reboots?  is there something new available to fix this?
[08:28] <DanaG> Cool, now I don't get that error.
[08:28] <DanaG> I wonder why it didn't work before, when it seemed like the lines were already there.
[08:28] <DanaG> Was it just a matter of order?
[08:29] <crimsun> yes, order is very important
[08:29] <crimsun> syntax also didn't match precisely
[08:30] <crimsun> uploaded.  I've credited you in the changelog.
[08:30] <DanaG> Cool.
[08:30] <DanaG> Should you use my real name?
[08:30] <DanaG> Dana Goyette
[08:31] <DanaG> s/Should you/Would you like to/
[08:31] <crimsun> I used whatever's listed in your irc client
[08:31] <crimsun> ircname  : Dana Goyette
[08:31] <DanaG> Cool.
[08:32] <crimsun> you could just read gutsy-changes ;)
[08:33] <DanaG> I see it's a mailing list; is it also a newsgroup that I can set Thunderbird to use?
[08:34] <crimsun> gmane probably "gateways" it
[08:35] <crimsun> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.changes.gutsy
[08:37] <DanaG> aah, nice: one click setup tool.
[08:38] <DanaG> I mean, Thunderbird is default nntp:// handler.
[08:38] <pwnguin> thunderbird can't handle mailing lists?
[08:41] <DanaG> I like to keep them separate.
[08:41] <DanaG> That's one reason I don't use Outlook or Evolution: can't separate POP accounts, for example.
[08:41] <pwnguin> i just forward everything to my gmail account ;)
[08:45] <DanaG> Once the ubuntu-mobile is complete enough to install, I'll put it in a VM.
[08:46] <DanaG> I tried installing ubuntu-mobile on my current system, but I didn't dare let it replace my applications menu structure.  Thus, it was itself broken, but it didn't break anything on the rest of my system.
[08:48] <pwnguin> hmm. "generous amounts of RAM". doesn't sound like the DS
[09:05] <DanaG> There's a #ubuntu-mobile on freenode.
[09:08] <DanaG> Hmm, I hope in the future there will be some preset upmix and downmix virtual devices.  I think over the weekend I'll file a wishlist bug on that.
[09:08] <crimsun> I'm working on that already
[09:08] <crimsun> it will ship it gutsy
[09:09] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/asoundconf-ui
[09:09] <crimsun> very, very, very rough sketch
[09:09] <crimsun> as in it currently does jack, but I'll be extending the UI from there
[09:10] <crimsun> ship with gutsy, even
[09:12] <nullkuhl> hello
[09:12] <nullkuhl> anyone in htere ?
[09:12] <crimsun> where is "htere" precisely?
[09:13] <nullkuhl> here* lol
[09:13] <pwnguin> halfway between here and there, i think
[09:13] <nullkuhl> iwas thinking abt trying gutsy and i wanted to ask
[09:13] <bonbonthejon> sounds right to me PW
[09:13] <DanaG> That phrasing "ship with gutsy, even," seems odd to me.  I usually use the word "er, ...".
[09:13] <nullkuhl> if it achieved anywish of those that was in the wishlist in the forum
[09:13] <crimsun> DanaG: ?
[09:13] <crimsun> that was a correction of "it will ship it gutsy"
[09:14] <crimsun> but yes, even may just be an eccentricity
[09:14] <pwnguin> too much snagglepuss
[09:14] <nullkuhl> ??
[09:17] <gnomefreak> nullkuhl: if you want somehting added you would more than likely need to file a wishlist bug on launchpad, last i heard devel doesnt troll the forums looking for wishlists
[09:17] <gnomefreak> the maintainers are notified when put on launchpad
[09:19] <pwnguin> pretty much I dont think developers go around looking for what other people want done; they either do what people are willing to pay for, or what interests themselves, sometimes both
[09:19] <gnomefreak> it would be nice to intergate forums (someone takes a forum wishlist and filies it in LP but that hasnt happened yet and i dont even think its been in talks
[09:19] <pwnguin> ive been told that they tried t o gateway the forums
[09:19] <pwnguin> but they undid that
[09:19] <DanaG> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/cowon-q5-pmp-with-hsdpa-and-gps-announcedagain-250553.php   <-- /me wishes he could run ubuntu-mobile on one of these.
[09:19] <gnomefreak> pwnguin: we do for what would best suite everyone, but we are not gonna go looking all over web for ideas
[09:20] <pwnguin> that first part didnt parse well
[10:56] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You do not have channel operator access to [#ubuntu-boot]
[10:56] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-server]  Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support)
[10:56] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-ops]  Welcome to #ubuntu-ops - Home of the operators for official K/X/Ed/Ubuntu channels. Questions, requests and complaints about Ubuntu related channels and their people can be filed here"
[10:56] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu+1]  Please read the topic. Especially if things are broken!
[11:00] <DanaG> Hmm, perhaps it's VLC doing it.
[11:02] <DanaG> Hmm, running nautilus in console doesn't give debug output.
[11:02] <DanaG> I believe I have some medibuntu packages installed, so that makes it harder to debug.
[11:07] <pwnguin> woa
[11:07] <pwnguin> he's right
[11:08] <DanaG> I'll roll everything medibuntu back to official.
[11:09] <pwnguin> i hit properties and nautilus restarts
[11:09] <pwnguin> the reason nautilus doesn't give debug output is because it attaches to another running session
[11:10] <pwnguin> nautilus is also your background (root windows)
[11:11] <pwnguin> unfortunately, im not sure how to stop it from reviving itself
[11:15] <pwnguin> there we go
[11:25] <pwnguin> DanaG: if you're still trying to replicate, make sure to remove nautilus from "current sessions" first
[11:28] <DanaG> Right now I've removed totem-gstreamer and I'll try totem-xine.
[11:33] <pwnguin> bug 118302 says fix committed, and i dont think it has to do with gstreamer vs xine
[11:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118302 in totem "symbol lookup error in libtotem-properties-page.so"" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118302
[11:45] <DanaG> Hmm, why does Nautilus open ~ every single time it starts?
[11:45] <DanaG> The session manager should launch "nautilus -n", not plain "nautilus".
[11:45] <DanaG> for --no-default-window.
[11:46] <pwnguin> does this happen when you log in?
[11:51] <DanaG> Every time the session manager starts Nautilus, be it from login or from Nautilus crashing, it happens.
[12:08] <DanaG> Hmm, pulseaudio is segfaulting... that's not good.
[12:09] <DanaG> What's the relevant -dbg package?
[12:16] <DanaG> It's interesting to do "strings <whatever your swap partition is>"
[12:17] <n738> exit
[12:17] <n738> q
[12:17] <n738> end
[12:24] <pwnguin> hmm. on the one hand, it looks like adding the rotation support i want to nv will be easy
[12:24] <pwnguin>  on the other hand, building could be a huge pita


[16:57] <jokrebel> Hi
[16:58] <toddy> Hi jokrebel
[18:01] <MarkusH> hello
[18:01] <Silverlion> AlanBell: reporting present for the meeting
[18:01] <Fuchs> good evening :)
[18:01] <Frickelpit> hi guys
[18:01] <Silverlion> MarkusH: ein Hallo an den Landsmann ;)?
[18:01] <AlanBell> evening
[18:01] <MarkusH> Hallo Silverlion. Danke gleichfalls
[18:01] <toddy> Silverlion: :D
[18:01] <AlanBell> #startmeeting
[18:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jan 29 18:01:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:01] <k1l> hi
[18:01] <AlanBell> hi all
[18:02] <Silverlion> hey there
[18:02] <Frickelpit> huch, der k1l :)
[18:02] <pangolin> o/
[18:02] <AlanBell> well hi everyone
[18:02] <oCean> o/
[18:02] <AlanBell> Pici: funkyHat: o/
[18:03] <LjL> hi
[18:03] <Silverlion> To all the german Lubuntu-Users in here #invite to #lubuntu-de-offtopic
[18:03] <AlanBell> we will get started soon and we won't exceed an hour this time, might end up deferring some items if we don't get through them
[18:04] <pangolin> Pici funkyHat wake up!
[18:05]  * Silverlion will follow the meeting but as i am complete newbie i will stand in the background
[18:05] <AlanBell> hmm, seems I am all on my lonesome for the moment
[18:05] <AlanBell> ah well, lets go anyhow
[18:06] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda is the agenda
[18:06] <AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
[18:06] <AlanBell> #progress ircc to move eir control channel to -ops-monitor if this will preserve existing ban timeouts - AlanBell
[18:06] <AlanBell> this was done
[18:06] <AlanBell> eir is now reporting ban expiry in #ubuntu-ops-monitor and is functioning just as it ever was
[18:06] <pangolin> and is currently being ignored at a greater degree
[18:07] <AlanBell> we can talk more about eir later in the main topic
[18:07] <AlanBell> yes, it is a bit, if you have bans being nagged please deal with them one way or another
[18:07] <AlanBell> anyhow, this item was done.
[18:07] <pangolin> :)
[18:07] <AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
[18:08] <AlanBell> there are none
[18:08] <AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
[18:08] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson
[18:08] <AlanBell> not much progress to report on this one, I believe we have a draft of some new guidelines, I have not reviewed it in detail yet
[18:09] <AlanBell> anyone got anything else to say about this one?
[18:09] <pangolin> there is an etherpad draft, yes. i don't have the link
[18:09] <pangolin> last time I looked I think all it really needed was some clean up.
[18:09] <AlanBell> ok, hopefully we will get time to do that and have something to report at the next meeting
[18:10] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi
[18:10] <AlanBell> well we have been doing some recruitment \o/
[18:10] <pangolin> Welcome new members of the ops team!
[18:10] <AlanBell> yes, welcome all
[18:11] <AlanBell> lets move on from this bug, I think we can review it again later and see how we are doing
[18:11] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 892500 eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu -ikonia
[18:12] <AlanBell> so on this one we have moved the eir control channel out of -ops-team to make way for some new eir-like functionality from ubottu and/or floodbots
[18:12] <LjL> From what I've gathered lately, most people seem to be happy with the idea of ubottu handling this instead of eir, but I think there is still a lot of implementation work to be done.
[18:12] <pangolin> is there work being done on ubottu?
[18:12] <AlanBell> indeed
[18:13] <LjL> I think ubottu would be a better candidate (even though the FloodBots already have ops and ubottu doesn't), because it runs the bantracker.
[18:13] <pangolin> I would much prefer we have one bot that can handle this
[18:13] <pangolin> ubottu would be my choice as well
[18:13] <AlanBell> I would like to get some names for people wanting to work on this and some actions happening by the next meeting
[18:13] <pangolin> we know :)
[18:14] <LjL> AlanBell: I *think* someone is experimenting with ubottu, because I've noticed some, erm, notices from it that weren't there in the past...?
[18:14] <LjL> #ubuntu-bots-team is pretty silent lately, if there's work, it's being done quietly...
[18:15] <pangolin> AlanBell: perhaps ask on the irc mailing list for some volunteers to help with ubottu? unless there are security issues that need to be considered
[18:15] <AlanBell> ok, I can find out if someone has been doing stuff on ubottu
[18:16] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/ubuntu-bots/devel/changes not recently it seems
[18:16] <AlanBell> ok, good suggestion pangolin, I will mail the list
[18:17] <AlanBell> #action AlanBell to call for helpers to implement eir-like functionality in ubottu
[18:17] <meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to call for helpers to implement eir-like functionality in ubottu
[18:17] <pangolin> AlanBell: i think the only thing would be bantracker access
[18:17] <pangolin> but probably can be worked out
[18:17] <AlanBell> yeah, we discussed that before, bantracker isn't a massive security worry
[18:17] <LjL> AlanBell: on ubottu.com, some eir-related files were updated recently
[18:18] <AlanBell> eir related files??
[18:18] <pangolin> eir and ubottu do some chatting
[18:18] <AlanBell> ok
[18:18] <pangolin> something may have been changed in those files
[18:18] <LjL> AlanBell: yes, I don't know whether it's what pangolin says, or a replacement for eir in the work.
[18:18] <LjL> AlanBell: I can have a look, I have read access on it.
[18:20] <AlanBell> ok, well lets figure out who wants to work on this and arrange a separate workshop on it
[18:20] <AlanBell> moving on
[18:20] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell
[18:20] <AlanBell> there were 19, there are now 15 I think
[18:21] <AlanBell> I spoke to those on the list who I could find online, I think one was not using an ubuntu cloak, another went for an unaffiliated cloak and the other two renewed their Ubuntu membership
[18:21] <pangolin> those people are being contacted and cloaks removed if they chose not to renew?
[18:21] <pangolin> cool
[18:21] <AlanBell> one of them had let their MOTU membership expire intentionally and was transferred into the irc members group as a slighly unusual renewal
[18:22] <AlanBell> we will go through the rest of the list and update next meeting
[18:22] <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell
[18:22] <Silverlion> Question regarding cloak i have ;)
[18:22] <pangolin> ask! :)
[18:23] <Silverlion> do i need an ubuntu cloak ... my friends from SII gave me one...
[18:23] <AlanBell> we only have cloaks for Ubuntu members, I will explain that a bit later, your current one is fine Silverlion
[18:23] <Silverlion> AlanBell: copy that
[18:24] <AlanBell> ok, so this bug, the wiki was full of spam, this has now been cleaned up \o/
[18:24] <AlanBell> and registration turned off so it won't happen again
[18:24] <AlanBell> we should still port the content to wiki.ubuntu.com, but that is a bit of a pain going from mediawiki to moin syntax
[18:25] <AlanBell> ok, that concludes the bug list
[18:25] <AlanBell> #topic Welcoming our new operators
[18:25] <AlanBell> yay, welcome to the new operators \o/
[18:25]  * Silverlion puts some six-packs of beer into the middle of the room
[18:26] <Silverlion> is kinda tradition to bring something into a new "job"
[18:26]  * pangolin is looking forward to working with the new folks
[18:27] <AlanBell> Benny Hult, Chris Druif, Jared Norris, Jens Leineweber, Mohana Kumar, Phill Whiteside, stlsaint, Unit 193 are the new operators we are welcoming to the core ops team
[18:27]  * Silverlion listens to Jens ;)
[18:28] <AlanBell> they have mostly all been invited to the -ops channel where they are voiced and the -ops-team channel, there are a couple who have been offline for the weekend and I haven't seen yet
[18:29] <oCean> offline? :o
[18:30] <oCean> :)
[18:30] <Silverlion> an operator isn't supposed to have offline time, is he?
[18:30] <Silverlion> :D
[18:30] <AlanBell> there is an induction process that somewhat exists and we are adapting a bit, basically this runs to the precise release date
[18:30] <AlanBell> oCean: does not compute!
[18:31] <AlanBell> during the induction we are intending to run a handful of classes in the #ubuntu-classroom channel covering things like setting various types of bans, mediating with problem users, how the various bots work
[18:32] <oCean> AlanBell: the new induction process starting from april?
[18:32] <AlanBell> some of this will be useful as the #lubuntu channel grows
[18:32] <AlanBell> oCean: ending then
[18:32] <oCean> oh, I got it
[18:32] <AlanBell> starting now, it is a 3 month thing, which as it starts now, takes us nicely up to the release
[18:32] <oCean> yes, ok
[18:33] <AlanBell> anyhow, the main point of it is to give us a timeframe in which to run these classes
[18:33] <AlanBell> if this is a successful way to do induction I think I could see us doing it as a regular thing in line with the release cycle
[18:34] <pleia2> it's nice to see such a process in place, as the project grows a lot of folks are put into positions of greater responsibility and some have felt they lack training
[18:34] <Myrtti> I'm currently doing induction for freenode staffship, perhaps we could snatch some ideas and practises from there?
[18:34] <AlanBell> so do another intake at the end of July across all our channels for the 12.10 release for example
[18:34] <pangolin> o/ is all this going to be on the final? I just want to know what to study.
[18:35] <oCean> hehe
[18:35] <Myrtti> AlanBell: do we have a draft document or something for this, perhaps I could pitch in some ideas?
[18:35] <AlanBell> anyhow, we are looking for volunteers to do various classes, please step forward
[18:35]  * Myrtti has already volunteered for irssi 101
[18:35] <AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, we have some draft ideas, not in great detail
[18:36] <LjL> AlanBell: I could run some of them I guess. Not about any specific client like Myrtti (I use Konversation, not very widespread), but about the more generic stuff.
[18:36] <AlanBell> anyhow, you will be hearing more from us this week about that
[18:36] <AlanBell> LjL: I have you down for the bots one :)
[18:37] <LjL> :)
[18:37] <AlanBell> any more questions about #lubuntu and the new operators?
[18:38] <AlanBell> ok, moving on then
[18:38] <AlanBell> #topic IRCC meeting times
[18:38] <AlanBell> we want to have the meetings when people can get to them
[18:38] <LjL> So apparently not at 18:00? :P
[18:38] <AlanBell> the last meeting was the 11:00UTC saturday meeting and I had a lot of comments about it being inconvenient
[18:39] <pangolin> This meeting time is great IMO the one that happens at 11:00 UTC blows chunks for me
[18:39] <AlanBell> I emailed the list and asked if anyone wanted to speak up for that timeslot and had no reply
[18:39] <AlanBell> elky: you were on holiday so might have missed that
[18:40] <AlanBell> I kind of need the other IRCC members here to make any decisions on that, but I think we are agreed that the 11:00 UTC slot is mostly inconvenient and should be changed
[18:40] <Myrtti> doodle / etc it?
[18:41] <AlanBell> I will discuss with the rest of the IRCC and we will put it to the mailing list, if there are several options then a doodle poll
[18:42] <AlanBell> #action meeting timeslots to be taken to the mailing list, 11:00UTC slot is in danger of being dropped
[18:42] <meetingology> ACTION: meeting timeslots to be taken to the mailing list, 11:00UTC slot is in danger of being dropped
[18:43] <AlanBell> #topic ubuntuuser.de - Fuchs toddy
[18:43] <AlanBell> hi Fuchs, toddy and co o/
[18:43] <toddy> o/
[18:43] <MarkusH> o/
[18:43] <Frickelpit> hi
[18:43] <Fuchs> hello :)
[18:43] <AlanBell> so the background to this is that there has been a request to set up #ubuntusers namespace on freenode
[18:44] <AlanBell> and this would be managed by part of the -de locoteam right?
[18:44] <Fuchs> AlanBell: I can give a short introduction if you like
[18:44] <AlanBell> please do
[18:44] <Fuchs> (disclaimer: I am speaking as both a member of the #ubuntu-de operators and part of the ubuntuusers team)
[18:44] <Fuchs> (however, I am not speaking as a freenode staffer)
[18:44] <Fuchs> great. Okay, for the german speaking parts, there are two different teams, which are both part of the LoCo
[18:45] <dax> (If you need someone to speak as a freenode staffer about this, hi)
[18:45] <Fuchs> there is the team which manages #ubuntu-de, similar to other ubuntu support channels
[18:45] <Fuchs> then there is the ubuntuusers.de portal, which is a portal consisting of a forum, a wiki, a news feed and a planet
[18:45] <Fuchs> historically both have been managed by different teams, which, however, work together
[18:46] <Fuchs> now a grf-f has been filed by the ubuntuusers team, so that we can manage #ubuntuusers, which does not really fall in the ubuntu namespace,
[18:46] <Fuchs> plus which is not managed by the #ubuntu-de operators. This channel has been in place for quite a long time, and is where users can contact ubuntuusers team members regarding the portal
[18:47] <Fuchs> We had contact with several people, including nhandler and dholbach, and most things are clear. However, there are some questions open, so we brought a bunch of people today to clear things up
[18:47] <AlanBell> do you get many english language users arriving in the channel?
[18:47] <Fuchs> we have MarkusH, toddy, Frickelpit and me from ubuntuusers.de, and k1l and me from #ubuntu-de
[18:47] <Fuchs> AlanBell: maybe one user per two months or so, max
[18:47] <AlanBell> ok, and I trust they are helpfully redirected to a more appropriate channel
[18:48] <Pici> uhh..  My clock said the meeting starts in 15 minutes... my apologies.
[18:48] <Fuchs> The ubuntuusers.de portal is officially part of the german Ubuntu e.V., there is no commercial company behind us  (and we are not afiliated with the ubuntu user magazine, two misinformations that were around)
[18:48] <Fuchs> AlanBell: of course
[18:48] <AlanBell> hi Pici
[18:48] <Fuchs> so what we basically need is that one of you gives the okay to freenode staff, so that they can proceed the grf-f
[18:49] <pangolin> Why not name the channel #ubuntu-de-portal or something similar so that it stays in the namespace?
[18:49] <Fuchs> and then the ubuntuusers team will manage the #ubuntuusers channel, including cloaks to show people which team a team member is in. This helps a lot, since we have different teams on very different stuff (news suggestions, moderation stuff, tech stuff regarding the servers etc.)
[18:49] <Fuchs> pangolin: because the team behind #ubuntu-de is a different one. Both are part of the LoCo, but it's different people. Ubuntuusers is a rather big thing (biggest german portal), so having the same team managing this would add quite some workload
[18:50] <Fuchs> pangolin: also it has been like that for quite some time now, and most users are adapted to it. Also most links on wikis and other documentation is.
[18:50] <AlanBell> ok, we passed on this request to the LoCo Council and the Community Council too, there was a suggestion from the LoCo council that it should be in the #ubuntu-de-* area too
[18:50] <Pici> To me this sounds rather obvious then.  The IRC channels should reflect the organizational differences.
[18:50] <pangolin> Fuchs: sounds reasonable.
[18:50] <k1l> (as an ubuntu-de-op) im fine with that as long as the link for support to #ubuntu-de and for offtopic to #ubuntu-de-offtopic. we link to the wiki at ubuntuusers.de because its the best german linux wiki around
[18:51] <LjL> I think pangolin has a point. You're part of the DE community but separate at the same time; Ubuntu has always had just "member" cloaks, so wouldn't this turn into a way to disperse the cloaks and the namespace?
[18:51] <Fuchs> k1l: the link is set up like that in server error pages and wikis of ubuntuusers.de
[18:51] <Fuchs> LjL: not really, since it's two different things
[18:51] <AlanBell> I think it is clear that this is an existing situation, a well managed channel, and it is in the spirit of Ubuntu advocacy so tradmark use is fine
[18:51] <Fuchs> LjL: I don't think that other local communities have the same situation with such a big portal
[18:52] <pangolin> LjL: good point. I am not sure we want @ubuntuusers/member/ cloaks
[18:52] <AlanBell> Fuchs: who would get the cloaks and what would an example one be?
[18:52] <pangolin> it would cause confusion
[18:52] <Fuchs> AlanBell: team members,  @ubuntuusers/serverteam/username   I think
[18:52] <Fuchs> so it would not look like ubuntu member cloaks at all
[18:53] <pangolin> yeah, I'm not happy with that. it still has ubuntu in it and couple imply membership status to the uninformed
[18:53] <pangolin> could*
[18:53] <Fuchs> I am quite sure that moving to a different namespace and beginning to mix up the two, including cloaks, will cause a lot more confusion among german users, which are used to the current situation for some years now
[18:54] <Fuchs> so basically it would stay as is for the german ubuntu users, but the ubuntuusers team would have better possibilities of channel management
[18:54] <Pici> Am I the only one not happy telling an existing Ubuntu advocacy group how to run their own organization?
[18:54] <Fuchs> users would not be disturbed, #ubuntu-de Operators would not be disturbed and ubuntuusers people would be happy
[18:55] <pangolin> Pici: I don't mind the channel name being #ubuntuusers. I don't like the idea of a separate cloak with the word Ubuntu in it.
[18:55] <oCean> pangolin: I don't see why not, they're contributing to the project
[18:55] <AlanBell> I am fine with that cloak format I think
[18:56] <oCean> yes, I think it's a fine idea
[18:56] <pangolin> then they should apply for membership like the rest of us did to get our cloak
[18:56] <AlanBell> I suspect that most of the people getting that cloak would be well placed in terms of a significant and sustained contribution to get an Ubuntu member cloak
[18:56] <Fuchs> pangolin: it's not the same as a membership cloak. It is also used to distinguish teams a bit
[18:56] <Fuchs> AlanBell: probably, but it would add quite some administrative overhead
[18:56] <pangolin> Fuchs: we don't do that in Ubuntu
[18:57] <pangolin> we don't distinguish teams, we are all members
[18:57] <AlanBell> Fuchs: I wasn't suggesting linking them in some way, just that you are not planning on handing them out to any random person who asks
[18:57] <Fuchs> pangolin: it's for pragmatic reasons, when a user comes in the general team channel, he would have a better possibility to see which person he should contact
[18:57]  * Pici agrees with AlanBell
[18:58] <Fuchs> pangolin: example: if a user wants to suggest a news article, he should contact one of our ikhaya (that's our news portal) members. Giving this suggestion to one of our server guys is just a detour :)
[18:58] <Fuchs> AlanBell: definitely not
[18:58] <Fuchs> AlanBell: we have standards definied on how you can join one of the team
[18:58] <AlanBell> great
[18:58] <Pici> Then I'm fine with that.
[18:58] <Fuchs> AlanBell: and I am also not a big fan of handing them to every new member who just joined
[18:58] <oCean> good to hear there's a proper process in place.
[18:58] <Fuchs> good :)
[18:59] <AlanBell> ok, maybe we should vote on this to confirm the decision
[18:59] <pangolin> Fuchs: I disagree, the user can ask and then be directed to the correct team/person. That user should not need to /whois to see where to get help. anyway i am against adding a cloak with the word ubuntu in it. if that does happen I am going to fight for an ubuntero cloak that was declined years ago by the ircc
[19:00] <dax> pangolin: as in ubuntu/ubuntero/*?
[19:00] <Myrtti> is there even a possible quorum?
[19:00] <pangolin> maybe @ubuntu/helper cloak
[19:00] <Fuchs> pangolin: it would just be an additional measure. I am unfortunately not aware of any history regarding ubuntero cloaks, but I think you should feel free to bring that up again if you want
[19:00] <AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, with pleia2
[19:00] <Myrtti> ah
[19:01] <AlanBell> #voters AlanBell Pici pleia2 funkyHat
[19:01] <meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell Pici funkyHat pleia2
[19:01] <pangolin>  I know a few people in #ubuntu who might like to have a @ubuntu/helper cloak
[19:01] <Pici> We're not talking about adding additional levels to the Ubuntu cloak namespace. We're talking about ubuntuusers.
[19:02] <pangolin> yeah i am fine with the channel.
[19:03] <AlanBell> #vote the IRCC agrees not to object to the #ubuntuusers GRF
[19:03] <meetingology> Please vote on: the IRCC agrees not to object to the #ubuntuusers GRF
[19:03] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:03] <AlanBell> +1
[19:03] <meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
[19:03] <pleia2> +1
[19:03] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[19:03] <Pici> +1
[19:03] <meetingology> +1 received from Pici
[19:04] <AlanBell> not sure funkyHat is awake
[19:04] <AlanBell> #endvote
[19:04] <meetingology> Voting ended on: the IRCC agrees not to object to the #ubuntuusers GRF
[19:04] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:04] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:04] <toddy> thank you all. :)
[19:04] <Fuchs> Thank you very much :)
[19:04] <MarkusH> thank you very much
[19:04] <Fuchs> feel free to poke me if you need some further information or whatever :)
[19:04] <dax> pleia2: I take it Ubuntu CC decided to delegate the decision to IRCC and isn't going to object in and of themselves?
[19:05] <AlanBell> ok, thanks Fuchs
[19:05] <pleia2> dax: IRC-based decisions arealways delegated to the IRCC, the CC only gets involved if it's escalated
[19:05] <dax> pleia2: thanks
[19:05] <christel> i must admit that i think it's pretty impressive that the ubuntu community is such that whilst the project's GRF would be entirely fine standing on it's own feet from a freenode pov, you have created an atmosphere in which people come and ask for your approval regardless
[19:05] <AlanBell> dax: the CC was notified, and we considered the trademark implications
[19:05] <christel> many ++'s!
[19:06] <oCean> :)
[19:06] <AlanBell> ok, we have a bunch of items on the agenda that we have not got to yet, but we are out of time
[19:07] <AlanBell> I don't see any of them being urgent so I am intending to defer them to the next meeting in about 2 weeks, time to be discussed but probably not on Saturday morning
[19:07] <AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
[19:07] <AlanBell> anyone got any other pressing matter to raise?
[19:08] <AlanBell> ok, thanks very much everyone
[19:08] <AlanBell> #endmeeting
[19:08] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jan 29 19:08:28 2012 UTC.
[19:08] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-29-18.01.moin.txt
[19:10] <topyli> very sorry for being so very late. isn't it ircc meeting time?
[19:10] <Myrtti> lol
[19:11] <Myrtti> you arrived on the same minute #endvote was declared
[19:11] <Myrtti> I mean #endmeeting
[19:11] <Pici> topyli: both our clocks said it started 11 minutes ago :(
[19:11] <oCean> (:
[19:11] <topyli> i'm a full hour late?
[19:11] <Pici> topyli: I happened to show up 'early' for that.
[19:11] <Pici> topyli: yes. me too, sort of.
[19:11] <topyli> grr
[19:12]  * Silverlion waves and leaves
[19:12] <Myrtti> here's a trick: add Reykjavik into your locations
[19:12] <Myrtti> they're using UTC.
[19:13] <Fuchs> right, have a nice day / evening folks, thank you again, and as said, feel free to poke me if you need something more :)
[19:13] <topyli> it's the daylight savings. i have no sense of time anymore
[19:14] <Myrtti> topyli: Iceland doesn't have DST either
[19:14] <topyli> russia also abandoned it, afaik
[19:14] <Myrtti> but they're not on UTC timezone ;-)
[19:15] <topyli> no, but at least they're on the *same* timezone all the time
[19:16] <Myrtti> well the point I was trying to make was that if you've got Reykjavik as a location in your Gnome/whatever clock, you can use it to check the meeting times
[19:17] <topyli> i like this one: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/
[19:18] <topyli> you can live whereever you want, just check it :)
[19:18] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20120129
[19:18] <dax> Good desktop environments also feature the ability to put UTC in your clock.
[19:18] <dax> If memory serves, the Evolution people also fixed my bug about UTC not working in Evolution calendar :)
[19:18] <topyli> even gnome used to have that!
[19:21] <topyli> anyway, i should have been here at 20 not 21 and now my super-political agenda is lost. the sane people have won. what will we do!
[19:42] <jokrebel> bye
[19:55] <MarkusH> see you, and thanks again


[05:54] <Kilos> helloooo africa
[06:05] <Kilos> hi theShirbiny
[06:58] <philipballew> hey Kilos
[06:59] <Kilos> hi philipballew
[06:59] <philipballew> enjoying a good start to the week I hope?
[06:59] <Kilos> yes ty and you?
[07:34] <philipballew> Kilos, yes. All is well. I am currently looking at renting a new appartment
[07:34] <Kilos> nice
[08:21] <pieter2627> Kilos: what is the e-mails i got about ubuntu-africa being approved and declined?
[08:22] <Kilos> oh , i had to join some of the countries to get approved before i could join their lists and mail them
[08:23] <pieter2627> ooh, me sees
[08:23] <Kilos> and some still havent replied so i joined the whole africa team with some to try get reaction
[08:24] <pieter2627> it seems that some sure do know how to react
[08:24] <Kilos> as soon as i get reaction from them we can then remove the africa team
[08:25] <Kilos> oh yes i did them by mistake but they came and discussed it first before denying
[08:25] <Kilos> my bad i did it to some of the guys that have already joined us
[08:26] <pieter2627> oh, the comment with the decline initially seemed a bit rude
[08:26] <Kilos> we discussed it here first
[08:26]  * pieter2627 now sees that it not as bad after understanding the back story
[08:28] <Kilos> i think it is then with 200 or more mmbers in their team and they need to first clarify if everyone is happy with being subscribed as a team or would rather join individually
[08:30] <Kilos> i think the different countries have political agendas that make peeps sceptical about joining this group
[08:30] <Kilos> but i want them to all understand that ubuntu and linux users are all welcome here
[08:31] <Kilos> we dont do politics
[08:32] <pieter2627> ok, thanks for clarifying Kilos
[08:32] <Kilos> np
[08:46] <elacheche> Morning!
[08:47] <pieter2627> Hi elacheche
[08:49] <Kilos> hi elacheche
[08:50] <elacheche> wassup?
[08:51] <Kilos> oh pieter2627 i actually wanted them to see its not just me here
[08:51] <Kilos> too much work for old peeps elacheche
[08:51] <elacheche> ??!
[08:52] <Kilos> trying to find them missing teams
[08:52] <Kilos> zim has approved me as a member at least but havent answered my mail yet
[08:53] <Kilos> i spent the weekend trying to contact the missing teams
[08:53] <Kilos> and you slept
[08:53]  * Kilos cries
[08:54] <Kilos> it would be nice to have them all here for the first meeting
[08:55] <Kilos> then i can retire
[08:58] <theShirbiny> hey Kilos
[08:58] <Kilos> you well theShirbiny ?
[08:59] <theShirbiny> I'm good, you?
[08:59] <Kilos> good ty
[08:59] <Kilos> :)
[09:01] <pieter2627> "wanted them to see its not just me here" - now why would they think that :P
[09:01] <Kilos> um
[09:03] <Kilos> well
[09:03] <Kilos> i dont know if peeps open the site and check things out or look at lp to see
[09:04] <Kilos> some peeps delete mails from strangers without looking further
[09:04] <Kilos> am i wrong
[09:05] <pieter2627> Kilos: i was pulling your leg - hence the tongue
[09:05] <Kilos> hahaha
[10:20] <Kilos> i might break something here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AfricanTeams#All_Sub-pages
[10:20] <Kilos> want to try add a sub page for ideas
[10:20] <Kilos> that anyone can use
[10:22] <Kilos> ai! it went to the wrong place
[10:23] <elacheche> :D
[10:23] <Kilos> if i use ==IDEAS== will it then join the subpages
[10:23] <elacheche> Kilos there is nothing tht you can do and we can't fix :) → Just don't remove the page :) And we can fix anything :)
[10:23] <Kilos> lol
[10:23] <Kilos> ok ill try again
[10:25] <Kilos> ai! i dunno how to make it article 5 in the list
[10:26] <Kilos> grrr
[10:48] <Kilos> i give up
[11:47] <Kilos> yay You are not allowed to edit this page.
[11:49] <elacheche> :3 :D
[11:59] <Kilos> elacheche  have you got time to fix it?
[11:59] <elacheche> not today :'( it's monday :/
[11:59] <Kilos> lol
[11:59] <elacheche> maybe today by night
[12:00] <Kilos> tonight
[12:00] <elacheche>  I keep the wiki email notification unread so I don't forget it
[12:00] <Kilos> sounds good, but you most likly eating or sleeping
[12:01] <elacheche> I eat by 7:45pm... After that it depends how much water I drink.. If I drink too much I'll be unable to move a muscle x)
[12:01] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:35] <Kilos> so elacheche do you have news for me?
[18:35] <Kilos> or you to full of water to move hehe
[19:13] <Kilos> hi there WaVeR hows things in Morocco?
[19:26] <Kilos> night all, see you tomorrow
[20:32] <melodie> hi