[00:06] <Guddu> PeGaSuS, sem For some reason my Ubuntu although connected using ethernet cable acquired a IP using only the WIFi Interface. How can i set this right?
[00:06] <oerheks> some routers have an MAC filter...
[00:06] <oerheks> to assign staticf ip, lan or wireless
[00:07] <Guddu> oerheks, I just saw that. I assigned a static one for my Wifi mac. But I am looking also for a way to have a IP for my Ethenernet interface
[04:31] <Gudddu> I feel; that my cron is not working.
[04:31] <Gudddu> */5 * * * /home/ubuntu/update_dns.sh
[04:31] <Gudddu> This was supposed to execute every 5 minutes
[04:34] <AzBukiVedi> С Новым 2024 Годом!
[04:38] <Gudddu> Git it. I was missing the right syntax.
[05:50] <nico_> I am currently running an OEM kernel, but recent pkg installs tell me that I'll be getting upgraded to a generic kernel.  I'm guessing when I reboot I'm going to have some issues.
[06:00] <kotgc> Hello, would Ubuntu people recommend Rsync or Vimdiff to check directories and their files?
[06:04] <kotgc> ...or maybe rdiff (apparently a mix or rsync and vimdiff)?
[06:11] <AzBukiVedi> http://global.net.ru:8080/temp/Photo0104.jpg HNY!
[06:49] <marcopolo> Guys , can you make apt show deb packages instead of snaps  ?
[06:50] <ravage> apt only show apt
[06:50] <marcopolo> it seems like apt repositories only show snaps
[06:50] <ravage> no
[06:51] <marcopolo> In software center there are only snaps packages
[06:51] <marcopolo> Or is there a deb package repository ?
[06:52] <ravage> apt search
[06:53] <ravage> https://packages.ubuntu.com/
[06:53] <marcopolo> it says transitional package to snap
[06:54] <ravage> that is probably firefox then
[06:54] <marcopolo> no its chromium
[06:54] <ravage> or that
[06:54] <ravage> ubuntu does not provide deb versions of those 2 packages
[07:25] <kotgc> Solved, by using Meld.
[07:57] <Guest0> hi all, how to create a live usb for windows i use ubuntu, it's just a suggested solution for my external hd's problems
[07:57] <Guest0> i used this Startup Disk Creator
[07:58] <Guest0> but it don't open .iso file of windows 11 image
[07:58] <Guest0> i downloaded image from here https://www.microsoft.com/it-it/software-download/windows11
[08:01] <Guest0> balena etcher that suggested in the tutorial of ubuntu's istallation is not available in ubuntu software and rufus too
[08:51] <PeGaSuS> you can install Balena Etcher from their deb
[10:03] <mmj> my newyear gift: https://gist.github.com/mmj-the-fighter/76ca2319300c754d843c3df736a4e95e
[10:44] <itu> secret?
[10:45] <ubuntustudio> eek, sharks
[10:54] <jailbreak> Happy new year to all volunteers 🥳
[11:32] <nasum> how to ignore certain dotfiles /dotdirs with updatedb.conf ?
[11:56] <Sarcastro> Hello, I was hoping someone might be able to help with an issue. Ruby adds the same 3 lines to my .bashrc file in an endless loop when I ssh into Ubuntu  ( # Install Ruby Gems to ~/gems    export GEM_HOME="$HOME/gems"   export PATH="$HOME/gems/bin:$PATH ) and I don't even see the prompt until I hit ^C.
[12:01] <Sarcastro> I have 10 ruby packages installed (via apt).. guessing it's probably one of the two manually installed 1:3.0~exql versions.. can't recall why I installed them, but packages are: ruby-dev/jammy,now 1:3.0~exp1 amd64 [installed]  ruby-net-telnet/jammy,jammy,now 0.1.1-2 all [installed,automatic]  ruby-rubygems/jammy,jammy,now 3.3.5-2 all [installed,automatic]  ruby-webrick/jammy,jammy,jammy-updates,jammy-updates,now 1.7.0-3 all [installed,automatic]
[12:01] <Sarcastro> ruby-xmlrpc/jammy-updates,jammy-updates,now 0.3.2-1ubuntu0.1 all [installed,automatic]  ruby3.0-dev/jammy-updates,jammy-security,now 3.0.2-7ubuntu2.4 amd64 [installed,automatic]  ruby3.0-doc/jammy-updates,jammy-updates,jammy-security,jammy-security,now 3.0.2-7ubuntu2.4 all [installed,automatic]  ruby3.0/jammy-updates,jammy-security,now 3.0.2-7ubuntu2.4 amd64 [installed,automatic]  ruby/jammy,now 1:3.0~exp1 amd64 [installed]
[12:02] <prova> Hi everybody! In ubuntu 20.04, inside a .yaml file for netplan, at the same time can be present a directive "renderer: networkd" and a directive "renderer: NetworkManager"? Thx
[14:27] <coz_> Happy New Year!
[14:28] <oerheks> same to you, coz_
[14:29] <coz_> oerheks, thank you, hope all goes well for you this year:)
[14:29] <kevr> likewise
[14:29] <kevr> happy 2024
[14:29] <coz_> Yes and thanks :)
[14:31] <ouzel8> Hi everyone!
[14:31] <ouzel8> I have installed Ubuntu in a HyperV VM.
[14:33] <CosmicDJ> ouzel8: great
[14:34] <ouzel8> I have encountered an issue with networking.
[14:34] <ouzel8> It is configured with static IP, and the VM with an external networked switch (i.e. shares the hosts NIC).
[14:35] <ouzel8> I have encountered issues connecting to the VM.
[14:37] <ouzel8> I can connect from the host, but when connect from other devices on the LAN, I cannot connect (furthermore ping also result in timing out).
[14:37] <ouzel8> I have observed an exception in which I can connect one of the devices on the network.
[14:38] <ouzel8> But from other devices, including the network router, I cannot find, or connect to the host.
[14:40] <ouzel8> Can anyone assist in explain likely causes for the problem
[14:42] <ouzel8> Also I have check the firewall status and its inactive.
[14:51] <oerheks> sounds like not an ubuntu issue, but windows networking with that external switch?
[14:51] <JanC> or Windows host networking internally
[14:52] <JanC> assuming the VM gets an IP address at all, of course
[14:53] <JanC> also, are the host & guest IP address in the same subnet?
[14:53] <ouzel8> FYI, I confirm I can find, and connect to the host from any other device.
[14:54] <ouzel8> yes
[15:02] <Yakov> I need to add some script to be called on my system load
[15:03] <arraybolt3> Yakov: Does it require root privileges? If not, write the script, then in your ~/.profile file, add a line that runs the script.
[15:04] <arraybolt3> If it does need root privileges, write the script, install it into /usr/local/bin, and write a oneshot systemd unit for it. An example of this can be found here: https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/enabling-ram-compression-on-lubuntu/3323
[15:04] <Yakov> ty
[15:33] <charles_> Does anyone know how to cause the text editor Nano, to show the whole line of text , I think they call it scrolling?
[15:35] <leftyfb>  charles_ https://blog.wplauncher.com/line-wrapping-in-nano-editor/
[15:36] <charles_> thanks leftyfb!
[15:38] <PeGaSuS> still, be careful with line wrapping when copying text, because what's on the next line is copied as a newline
[15:44] <charles_> interesting, PeGaSuS
[15:45] <PeGaSuS> and be especially careful when editing config files or soft-wrap might break them
[15:45] <charles_> usually on Nano I send out blocks, by the command Ctrl+O, that is offer to make a new file, do  you think doing that the scrolled lines might appear as separate lines?  If it does it's a good thing to beware of
[15:48] <PeGaSuS> I don't think so, because the wrap is just a visual artifact. it affects copying text but not saving the file, iirc
[15:49] <charles_> ok cool.   hmm might make a difference though, if I'm copying and pasting within the document in Nano, for example Ctrl+U [cut] then Ctrol+U [paste] maybe then it would paste them as separate lines?
[15:50] <PeGaSuS> just disable wrapping before saving the file (if it's a config file) and do a quick check to avoid surprises
[15:52] <PeGaSuS> I don't think so. I rememer it only affected copy/paste when selecting with the mouse and using Ctrl+Shift+C/V
[15:53] <PeGaSuS> as far as nano is aware, when you use Ctrl+K/U the file doesn't have lines warpped
[15:53] <PeGaSuS> wrapped*
[15:58] <CYB3RATTACK> Bye.
[16:09] <BluesKaj> Happy New Year to all
[16:10] <jailbreak> Happy new year BluesKaj :)
[16:11] <BluesKaj> Happy New Year jailbreak :-)
[17:10] <Tabmow> My DHCP server is set with a domain search that works fine on Windows, but doesn't seem to work on my ubuntu machine. Where can I double check that it is setting it correctly?
[17:13] <rbox> Tabmow: what "doesn't work"
[17:18] <Tabmow> My local domain is .local - if I ping blah.local it works, but if I ping blah it does not.
[17:19] <rbox> .local is gonna conflict with multicast dns
[17:19] <rbox> very bad choice for a domain
[17:19] <Tabmow> That was an example
[17:19] <rbox> what does /etc/resolv.conf say
[17:20] <Tabmow> It has 'search .'
[17:20] <rbox> thats weird
[17:20] <Tabmow> Should the DHCP lease be changing that automatically?
[17:20] <rbox> yes
[17:21] <rbox> that whole file shoudl be generated
[17:21] <Tabmow> Yeah I figured - the nameserver is <IP_ADDRESS> so I'm guessing it uses resolved right?
[17:22] <rbox> it uses wahtever is listening on the ip/port
[17:22] <Tabmow> resolvectl status mentions the correct default gw and dns server that my dhcp lease is giving but doesn't say anything about search domains
[17:23] <rbox> it should list 'dns domain'
[17:24] <Tabmow> It doesn't anywhere.... strange.
[17:38] <tester> hello
[17:38] <oerheks>
[17:39] <tester> hello
[17:39] <tester> anyone the fuck here eeeEE?
[17:39] <tester> hellooo
[17:40] <tester> some user hacker has entered and that is men, no one wana speeak?
[17:40] <tomreyn> tester: please stop
[17:40] <oerheks> we tend to wait for a support issue, tester
[17:40] <tester> ok who am i speaking to human or bot?
[17:40] <oerheks> and happy NY, many are not active today
[17:41] <tomreyn> tester: if you have an ubuntu question, you are welcome to ask that, and if you'll see someone responding then it'll be a human, possibly asking a bot to give a pre-written response.
[17:41] <tester> im going to setup my hidden service to the web with hexchat but first i want this to see if this work, because many months i tried fixing these issues and it hasn't work, fucking tor slow and fucking hexchat
[17:42] <oerheks> keep the language family friendly, thanks.
[17:42] <tester> ah okay so this is ubuntu channel okok
[17:43] <tomreyn> tester: the channel /topic has links to guidelines you should read to see what we like and dislike here
[17:44] <tester> tired of encountering issues with hexchat, so tired people here
[17:45] <tester> anyway leaving, thank you for interactions users goodbye
[17:45] <oerheks> i guess you get a better result when you register with #libera
[18:01] <cbreak> I've switched to irssi, it's quite nice once configured, apt install irssi, but it's CLI
[18:51] <cryptonector> I am currently running an OEM kernel, but recent pkg installs tell me that I'll be getting upgraded to a generic kernel.  I'm guessing when I reboot I'm going to have some issues.  Is that so?
[18:54] <arraybolt3> cryptonector: Potentially, but I would guess it will *probably* be OK. You can see what the difference is between OEM and generic kernels here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/OEMKernel
[18:56] <arraybolt3> Depending on what OEM you're using, an upgrade from an OEM kernel to a generic one may be intentional on the OEM's part. My Kubuntu Focus system upgraded from an OEM kernel to a newer generic kernel and worked just fine, and I confirmed with them that this was intentional.
[18:57] <arraybolt3> So you could always ask your OEM.
[19:07] <tomreyn> cryptonector: OEM kernels are basically standard ubuntu kernels but with extra patches to support vendor specific hardware which is not (yet?) supported by upstream linux (kernel.org) and the default ubuntu kernel images. if this situation changes later (driver support for all relevant hardware components becomes available on ubuntu kernel images) then it would make sense to have you move away from OEM images and track ubuntu's default kernel
[19:07] <tomreyn> images.
[19:10] <JanC> e.g. upgrade to a new HWE kernel
[19:21] <cryptonector> I see, thanks!
[19:22] <cryptonector> this is an OEM install that I re-did (by adding all the apt sources, keys, etc) by installing w/ ZFS root
[19:30] <Guest33> does the latest ubuntu support oem install?
[19:47] <tomreyn> Guest33: 22.04 LTS does according to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu_OEM_Installer_Overview - I would assume that 23.10 does, too.
[19:54] <cryptonector> how do I determine what kernel I'm running right now?
[19:55] <cryptonector> (uname -r)
[19:55] <cryptonector> also, how do I force my ubuntu back onto the OEM kernerl
[20:08] <tomreyn> cryptonector: cat /proc/version     may provide more information on the running kernel
[20:10] <tomreyn> cryptonector: to make the oem kernel the new default, there are multiple approaches. one is to uninstall all kernel images with a higher version. another is to define the default kernel to boot into, using grub tooling.
[20:21] <Miroboru> I am trying to setup sssd for LDAP authentication. Server is already set up (Synology). First of all - do I need to edit any other files than sssd.conf and nsswitch.conf?
[20:22] <Miroboru> I cannot get simple ldap commands like ldapwhoami to work without providing the binddn via -D and the password via -w/W, although I have specified all of that in sssd.conf
[20:23] <oerheks> there is a guide for that, https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-sssd-ldap  and https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-ldap-usage
[20:23] <Miroboru> In short - I don't think my sssd setup is working at all. I can query the ldap server if I provide bind and base dns
[20:24] <foo> Hello, I'm in ubuntu desktop right now on an old laptop. It's not booting, keeps dropping me into maintenance mode. My sense if I shut it down improperly and there's some weird hard drive issue. Is there a command I can run to force a filesystem check to fix filesystem things?
[20:25] <arraybolt3> fsck /dev/sdXY (replacing XY with the drive letter and partition number of the affected partition)
[20:26] <tomreyn> Miroboru: you *might* have more luck with getting qualified feedback on this during a business week in #ubuntu-server
[20:26] <arraybolt3> So assuming you need to fix the second partition of the sda disk, "fsck /dev/sda2"
[20:27] <Miroboru> tomreyn: Thank you. I have follow the documentation that was referee to here, but to no avail. I'll try later in the week then :)
[20:30] <tomreyn> foo: because you're apparently trying to fix your root file system, you may want to bring up the grub menu, then press 'e' and move tot the end of the "Linux" line and add     fsck.mode=force fsck.repair=yes
[20:30] <tomreyn> Miroboru: you're welcome, sorry i can't help with sssd myself.
[20:31] <tomreyn> foo: after adding this, you'd boot this using ctrl-x
[20:36] <foo> arraybolt3: thank you
[20:36] <foo> tomreyn: thank you
[20:39] <tomreyn> foo: you're welcome. yet another option would be to instruct grub to boot to the recovery menu, spawn the root shell and then manually fsck the file system.
[20:39] <tomreyn> (that's what i'd prefer to do, because that way you can better control what fsck does)
[20:40] <foo> tomreyn: ah, already did what you said :) We'll see what it does
[20:42] <tomreyn> i should have said that using fsck.repair=yes is a bit dangerous because an fsck repair *can be* destructive
[21:02] <foo> tomreyn: it doesn't seem that fixed it, same issue. Will try to reboot again. To be fair, this laptop is getting phased out. If I lost data on here, I think I already had it backed up so likely ok... but would be nice to do a final backup before I phase it out
[21:19] <foo> tomreyn: I wonder if that "e" gets saved after reboot?
[21:20] <foo> tomreyn: I rebooted from maintenance and it seems to be stuck at the Ubuntu loading screen. I feel like it's doing a fsck in the background and that's why it's taking so long but I don't know for certain
[21:34] <tomreyn> foo: you can remove "quiet" and "splash" and try hitting escape now to see if you get more output
[21:35] <tomreyn> remove, from the linux command line, you're editing in grub
[21:35] <foo> tomreyn: ok, will do that once this finishes. ESC doesn't seem to be doing anything
[21:35] <tomreyn> does you see disk access happening though, if there's an indicator LED?
[21:36] <tomreyn> *do you
[21:37] <tomreyn> to answer your earlier question: the changes you make by pressing 'e' on the grub menu do not persist a reboot
[21:57] <foo> tomreyn: I didn't think they existed on reboot. I don't have a drive indicator light. But I do "hear it" like the drive is doing something
[21:58] <foo> I did remove the "dirty bit" when I did an fsck on /dev/sda2
[21:58] <foo> I wonder if that helped or hurt things
[21:59] <tomreyn> you mean you explicitly removed it?
[21:59] <tomreyn> or was it just a result of running fsck?
[21:59] <tomreyn> (with --repair)
[22:01] <foo> tomreyn: huh, I just ran fsck /dev/sda2 I think. It asked if I wanted to remove it. I hit yes. I didn't do a --repair option *facepalm
[22:01] <tomreyn> i would not recommend removing it if you have reasons to assume the file system remains broken, especially if that may be so due to they physical storage
[22:01] <tomreyn> if it asked whether you want to remove it then that's fine
[22:02] <tomreyn> because fsck would only offer that after it realized there does not seem to be corruption
[22:02] <tomreyn> you should review your system logs for indications of hardware errors / disk access errors, though
[22:03] <tomreyn> also make sure to back up anything you might still need.
[22:06] <Miroboru> nvcc
[22:06] <Miroboru> Oops
[22:07] <foo> tomreyn: thanks, I'm trying to back stuff up then this laptop is getting trashed.
[22:08] <foo> I think I may try a --repair option since I didn't do that the first time and shut this down, been stuck on ubuntu screen for an hour
[22:10] <EriC^^> escape does nothing foo?
[22:10] <tomreyn> foo: as discussed above, --repair can make things worse. i suggets you first check whether the disk is still ok or has physical errors, preventing a repair from succeeding
[22:11] <tomreyn> you'd need to do so from either receovery (if you can boot to that) or a live usb stick
[22:11] <foo> EriC^^: correct
[22:12] <EriC^^> foo perhaps try sysrq to get to reboot?
[22:12] <foo> tomreyn: Heck, even if I did a USB Stick, mounted the drive, and copied data off... that could work
[22:12] <foo> EriC^^: I'd have to get to CLI for that? If ESC does nothing, I could hard shut it down
[22:12] <tomreyn> right, or you could image the partition and then try repairing the file system on a copy of that, so that you can always go back to the current state if that fails.
[22:13] <EriC^^> try pressing alt+prntscrn+s...then...u...then...b while holding alt+prntsctn
[22:13] <EriC^^> first could be worth a shot pressing alt+ctrl+del to get it to reboot normally
[22:14] <tomreyn> and even ctrl-c beforehand (though that usually does nothing during systemd boot)
[22:16] <chirpingbird> Hello, I wanted to ask a question about an icon on my dash bar. I am running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS. There is a program I installed a year ago and pinned to my dash bar, but I cannot remember if I installed it via a .deb or through snap or some other way, so I wanted to find what executable the icon is pointing to.
[22:16] <chirpingbird> Is there an easy way to find that information?
[22:17] <rbox> well just look at whats installed in dpkg and snap
[22:17] <jeremy31> chirpingbird: Right click on the icon, choose properties?
[22:18] <tomreyn> chirpingbird: you should be able to find out by reviewing the files in ~/.local/share/applications/ and the lines starting with "Exec" in there
[22:18] <tomreyn> jeremy31: i don't see that option on gnome-shell, do you?
[22:19] <chirpingbird> jeremy31: I don't quite have that option on the dash bar unfortunately. There is one, "Show Details," but it just brings me to GNOME Software.
[22:19] <chirpingbird> tomreyn: I will try to look here again.
[22:21] <jeremy31> tomreyn: I was using Cinnamon on 20.04
[22:21] <tomreyn> jeremy31: ah, well, that's different i bet ;)
[22:22] <tomreyn> chirpingbird: i'm nt sure what you mean. here's a command you can paste into a terminal emulator (such as Gnome's "Terminal") though:    cd ~/.local/share/applications/ && rgrep ^Exec . && cd
[22:23] <chirpingbird> Ahhh, sorry. What I meant is, I went to the directory in the terminal emulator and ran `grep -rni 'obsidian' *` (Obsidian is the name of the program), although unfortunately I didn't see anything
[22:25] <EriC^^> chirpingbird: try "dpkg -l | grep obsidian"
[22:25] <webchat47> I get this error when I try and "allow others to create and delete files in this folder": 'net usershare' returned error 255: [2024/01/01 15:20:59,  0] ../../lib/util/debug.c:1100(reopen_one_log)
[22:25] <webchat47>   reopen_one_log: Unable to open new log file 'HD5/log.net': No such file or directory
[22:25] <webchat47> net usershare add: share name /media/hd5 contains invalid characters (any of %<>*?|/\+=;:",)
[22:25] <webchat47> I have tried to chmod -R 777 every single folder, etc., and still, via samba, no one can read or write into the shared directories. Can anyone please help?
[22:25] <tomreyn> chirpingbird: also:   which obsidian; which Obsidian
[22:28] <chirpingbird> I did get something for dpkg! I see:
[22:28] <chirpingbird> ```
[22:28] <chirpingbird> rc  obsidian                                   1.5.3
[22:28] <chirpingbird>                                  amd64
[22:28] <chirpingbird> ```
[22:28] <chirpingbird> Although nothing for the which commands.
[22:28] <EriC^^> webchat47: it sounds like it's expecting just a name somewhere and you're giving it "hd/log.." and it doesnt like the "/"
[22:29] <tomreyn> chirpingbird: the dpkg output says that an "obsidian" deb/ apt package was once installed, but only its configuration files (and possibly other data) remain now.
[22:29] <EriC^^> chirpingbird: that means it's been removed but the config files are still there
[22:29] <EriC^^> chirpingbird: when you click on the dash icon does the program still launch?
[22:30] <chirpingbird> Ahhh, ok, thank you. That's strange
[22:30] <EriC^^> maybe it's a snap right now, try "snap list | grep obsidian"
[22:30] <chirpingbird> The program attempts to launch when I click the dash icon, I see a black screen that is the same size of the application that usually pops up; and when I try to click it twice while launching, it also launches a white screent hat is the same size of the window of the application that usually pops up
[22:31] <EriC^^> aha
[22:31] <chirpingbird> So what is strange to me is that, it seems to exhibit similar behavior to the installed program
[22:31] <chirpingbird> Except with bugs
[22:31] <EriC^^> aha
[22:32] <chirpingbird> "snap list | grep obsidian" does show empty
[22:32] <EriC^^> ok
[22:32] <oerheks> appimage?
[22:32] <oerheks> https://help.obsidian.md/Getting+started/Download+and+install+Obsidian
[22:33] <oerheks> or flatpak
[22:33] <chirpingbird> I'm guessing there's no spot on the OS where the contents of the pinned dash icons are stored? Maybe I'm just being extra paranoid, I end up thinking that the screens are evidence that it is still installed somewhere
[22:33] <oerheks> path in that dash launcher might reveal the path to the icon in the program folder
[22:33] <EriC^^> chirpingbird: if you want try pressing the dash icon, and with it running look at "ps -e exe" it should show the command at the bottom
[22:36] <tomreyn> chirpingbird: i explained how to find out what the dash icons run a while ago
[22:37] <chirpingbird> EriC^^: That was a wonderful idea, thank you so much! This gave me much more information to go off of.
[22:37] <EriC^^> np, what was the command it showed?
[22:38] <webchat47> EriC^^ How can I share a directory WITHOUT an "/"?
[22:38] <chirpingbird> It seems to me it was a file located in `/usr/local/share/applications` as `obsidian.desktop`. I checked the file timestamp, and it seems correct at around the time I installed it about a year and a half ago
[22:38] <EriC^^> aha
[22:38] <chirpingbird> It does point to an AppImage
[22:38] <chirpingbird> `/home/chirpingbird/bin/Obsidian-0.15.6.AppImage`
[22:39] <EriC^^> i guess it's manually installed then
[22:39] <chirpingbird> So I suppose I must have installed it that way
[22:39] <chirpingbird> I see, ok
[22:39] <chirpingbird> Thank you so much! I have the information I needed, this was genuinely very appreciated!!!
[22:40] <EriC^^> webchat47: no idea, just the error seems that's what it's saying
[22:40] <EriC^^> no problem chirpingbird
[22:41] <EriC^^> webchat47: maybe you're supposed to set the directory somewhere and only there the file name?


[04:08] <rick_h_> evening
[05:27] <cmaloney> lo
[13:25] <jrwren> morning
[14:32] <cmaloney> Good morning
[15:15] <mrgoodcat> morning
[15:16] <mrgoodcat> just heard a student tell another student "you don't need to know any of this if you're going into java" in my databasing class
[15:16] <mrgoodcat> my head desk'd so hard
[16:26] <greg-g> cmaloney: on the upswing of sickness now
[16:27] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: What was that they didn't need to know?
[16:27] <cmaloney> greg-g: Awesome! :)
[16:27] <mrgoodcat> anything from this class
[16:27] <mrgoodcat> apparently java devs don't need databases
[16:27] <cmaloney> Really? Such as?
[16:27] <cmaloney> Well, it's a real pain in the ass to get Java to do anything with Databases. ;)
[16:27] <mrgoodcat> yea but good luck making something useful without one lol
[16:27] <cmaloney> JDBC is a 4 letter word
[16:28] <brousch> The bastards removed the odbc-jdbc bridge from java 8
[16:29] <brousch> I have literally 1 java program here. It uses that
[16:29] <cmaloney> brousch: Someone took that seriously?
[16:29] <cmaloney> odbc is another 4 letter word.
[16:29] <brousch> It worked
[16:29] <brousch> It worked without me touching it twice a day for like 6 years
[16:30] <cmaloney> brousch: it might be that I'm not Windows enough to want to use those things
[16:30] <brousch> Sometimes all you have is odbc on windows
[16:30] <cmaloney> Any time I played with ODBC it felt like magic when it worked
[16:30] <brousch> I use pypyodbc now
[16:31] <cmaloney> magic in the sense that anything I did to accidentally change it would somehow cause the whole thing to spin apart and leave a crater where my machine once sood
[16:31] <cmaloney> stoof
[16:31] <cmaloney> stood
[16:31] <cmaloney> apparently I can't typo
[16:31] <cmaloney> ;)
[23:41] <jrwren> cscheib: i never got a PACZKI
[23:42] <jrwren> brousch: why pypyodbc? no native driver for you?
[23:56] <brousch> jrwren: foxpro db


[07:36] <popey> Morning all!
[07:37] <christel> morning popey
[07:51] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:22] <mungojerry> does anyone know about the processor in the iphone5?
[08:22] <mungojerry> i heard apple may have designed their own chip
[08:22] <daubers> mungojerry: It's a weird apple designed thing a bit like arm
[08:22] <daubers> think it has an arm core, then lots of apple added stuff
[08:23] <mungojerry> so are ARM gaining financially from it?
[08:23] <daubers> probably
[08:23] <mungojerry> i have ARM shares, and the price seems to swing wildly on apple news (e.g.lots of ipads sold...whahey)
[08:23] <daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A6 <- suggests it's an armv7 based thing
[08:24] <mungojerry> i know they signed a special licence with apple
[08:24]  * daubers is quite interested in the Cortex-A15 stuff when it finally hits the market
[08:26] <mungojerry> i noticed news about the arm support in 3.7 has been unified across SoC
[08:26] <mungojerry> linux kernel 3.7
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[08:48] <mungojerry> time to replace your hp microservers: http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/
[09:07] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:10] <SuperMatt> morning!
[09:23] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:23] <SuperMatt> morning
[09:24] <SuperMatt> today I learn python
[09:24] <SuperMatt> maybe
[09:24] <brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
[09:24] <SuperMatt> ning
[09:24] <SuperMatt> I have an app in mind for the next showdown so I'm getting started now
[09:37] <SuperMatt> writing code that sites within my ubuntu one folder is awesome, means I can take it to any PC with me and continue working on it :D
[09:38] <gord> why not just use a revision control system?
[09:41] <SuperMatt> I can, I'll probably stick it on launchpad, but for now while I'm dong exercises, it doesn't matter so much
[09:48] <popey> Tomato juice o'clock!
[09:49] <daubers> popey: Turned red yet?
[09:52] <mungojerry> has u1 got version control yet?
[09:53] <jacobw> is the tomato juice for a particular project? like jono's charity show?
[09:54] <popey> daubers, no
[09:54] <popey> mungojerry, no
[09:54] <popey> jacobw, no
[09:55] <AlanBell> popey is not from del monte
[09:55] <popey> :)
[09:56] <bigcalm> Or TSB
[09:56] <Daviey> popey: you are not a tomato juice drinker, are you?
[09:57] <popey> Daviey, No. I am not, "not a tomato juice drinker"
[09:58] <jacobw> tomato or openwrt? that is the question
[09:58] <popey> ebuyer spam o'clock
[09:58] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/341347-kingston-60gb-v-200-ssd-svp200s3-60g
[09:59] <popey> their spam says 30 quid
[09:59] <popey> must have sold out
[10:00] <mungojerry> SSD is now 0.50 per GB
[10:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:03] <mungojerry> popey, what's the diff? http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/ocz-ssd2-1vtxpl60g-vertex-plus-internal-2-5-sata-ii-ssd-60gb-11342072-pdt.html?srcid=867&cmpid=comp~Google~Computing+Accessories~11342072&istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istItemId=ptmpqpai&istBid=t
[10:07] <popey> mungojerry, longer url?
[10:09] <popey> i expect the performance is better on the kingston one but can't find the specs of the ocz
[10:22] <Oli> mungojerry: the kingston uses a newer controller. The vertex plus is ancient.
[10:22] <Oli> (by SSD standards)
[10:23] <mungojerry> Oli, thanks
[10:23] <mungojerry> performance or something else too?
[10:24] <AlanBell> popey: they fixed the price now
[10:25] <Oli> Short answer: Who knows exactly.
[10:25] <Oli> mungojerry: I'm fairly certain benchmarks exist out there for both though. They have both been popular products in their time.
[10:27] <Oli> Cor blimey they're cheap though! I'd only been looking at the model numbers and only just noticed they're asking for £30 for each. Argl. Pains in my wallet. Somebody call a bank manager!
[10:28] <Oli> Four of those in RAID0 would blow your face off...
[10:30] <mungojerry> 4x the risk of failure
[10:30] <mungojerry> i think you would have a failure within 1 yr
[10:33] <popey> I've yet to have a single SSD fail
[10:33] <mungojerry> :-\
[10:34] <gord> i think you are more likely to want to upgrade your SSD to a larger capacity before they will fail
[10:34] <popey> yeah
[10:34] <mungojerry> except when used in servers
[10:34] <mungojerry> we experience high failure rates due to death from writes
[10:34] <directhex> vertex plus is first-gen sandforce iirc
[10:34] <mungojerry> hard drives tend to die of age, rather than i/o
[10:35] <gord> maybe you don't want an SSD then
[10:35] <mungojerry> we need them for performance
[10:35] <directhex> for servers, buy intel 710 series. you won't wear out the write cycles any time soon
[10:35] <gord> cache cache and cache some more
[10:35] <directhex> i.e. the write cycle allocation on a consumer-grade drive is around the 60TB mark, depending on factors. intel 710 is around 1.5PB depending on size
[10:36] <directhex> yes they cost more, but over a period of 3 years, replacing consumer-level SSDs which are worn out (and not warrantied as a result) will cost a lot more
[10:36] <Oli> And most controllers can work around failing sectors. OCZ stuff has a 5-10% buffer (you get less usable space but it'll keep working)
[10:37] <directhex> all controllers have some number of reserved sectors for reallocation.
[10:37] <directhex> the question is how gracefully they deal with the initial reallocation, and with maxing out all reallocation sectors
[10:37] <directhex> in ocz's case, the answers to those two questions are "lol" and "loooooooool"
[10:37] <directhex> especially on the older controllers
[10:38] <Oli> s/controllers/firmwares/
[10:38] <mungojerry> all these faster components are keeping my 4+ year old laptop running very nicely
[10:38] <directhex> Oli, mmm, yes, that's more correct
[10:39] <directhex> e.g. intel 330 series and ocz 3-series use the same controller, but the firmware makes a huge difference in performance (and more importantly, reliability) characteristics
[10:39] <directhex> Oli, raid0 with ssd would likely not improve speed btw
[10:40] <Oli> To their credit, OCZ has done a lot of work on improving some of their failings. it's a shame they then go and roll something out like the Revo 3 which seems to be a completely proprietary controller.
[10:41] <Oli> directhex: depends on your RAID controller and bus. I've got the PCI-E OCZ Revo (RAID0 on PCIE) and that still bombs along. Slow by the most modern standards but that system of doing things scales up to multiple gigabits per second in their latest jazz.
[10:42] <directhex> Oli, the revodrive pci-e ssd?
[10:42] <Oli> yeah
[10:42] <directhex> or their old raid3 sata controller?
[10:42] <directhex> hm, i think that was xfx's actually
[10:42] <Oli> the raid-and-SSD-in-one
[10:43] <Oli> Ooo. Intel are doing PCI-E SSDs
[10:44] <directhex> 910 series? yes/
[10:44] <directhex> i wouldn't build my business on ocz data storage
[10:44] <Oli> Oh god no.. I don't think I'd build my storage on any one business though. They're all occasionally dire.
[10:45] <directhex> the reason to pay for intel's "consumer" grade drives (330 or 520) is because when they cock up, they reliably go read-only
[10:46] <directhex> with ocz, your os will keep sending data to write, and it might get written, or might not, who knows
[10:46] <directhex> unwritten data gets thrown away
[10:46] <AlanBell> going read only is a good failure mode
[10:47] <mungojerry> yeah, didn't know that
[10:47] <mungojerry> i wonder if it's actually works in practice
[10:47] <directhex> i'm informed by our co-lo host that it does
[10:49] <shauno> that's been my sole problem with ssd so far. when they go wrong, they go very wrong
[10:51] <directhex> ocz i also hate because their firmware update process is hateful
[10:52] <directhex> kingston is the best for ssd firmware updates from the drives i've tried
[10:54] <mungojerry> are they good on their 3yr warranty?
[10:54] <mungojerry> never got a drive replaced by manufacturer, only under dell support
[10:54] <directhex> i've not had to make a warranty claim directly with anyone yet
[10:56] <directhex> most ssd firmware updates must be done either by booting windows & the ssd *not* being the boot drive, OR by booting some kind of updater ISO which typically runs freedos or a mini distro
[10:56] <directhex> ocz's updater iso is particularly hateful, and in the end i had to scour their forums for an admin who posted an old version of the updater to mediafire.com, as the latest version "accidentally" can't update old bugged firmwares to less bugged versions, you need an older version of the updater to handle older drives properly
[10:57] <mungojerry> what does the ssd firmware do generally?
[10:57] <directhex> kingston you can update your current boot drive safely, either with the windows-based tool or gtk+ tool for desktop linux
[10:58] <directhex> mungojerry, makes it work. which might sound obvious, but crucial shipped firmware for the M4 SSD that would cause a BSOD every hour once you had 5000 hours of cumulative drive uptime, and OCZ have shipped drives that vanish from the bus and cause windows to hard lock for years
[13:31] <Goshawk> hi there, i'm trying to install a program in the terminal. It tells me to enter the installation path, which i do, the tells me i have no write to said path. any ideas?
[13:31] <Goshawk> 'write premission'
[13:31] <popey> Goshawk, what is it you're trying to install?
[13:32] <Goshawk> freeorion - the game ;)
[13:32] <brobostigon> !info freeorion
[13:32] <popey> cool
[13:32] <popey> http://www.playdeb.net/software/FreeOrion
[13:32] <popey> could you use that package?
[13:33] <brobostigon> sudo dpkg -i PAACKGE
[13:33] <Goshawk> popey: got rev3727 already
[13:36] <Goshawk> popey: how did you go about installing it?
[13:37] <popey> I didnt :)
[13:38] <Goshawk> ok, fair doos :)
[13:39] <Goshawk> So how do i give myself write permission?
[13:40] <popey> what instructions are you following for installation?
[13:42] <Goshawk> just the set up file in the terminal
[13:43] <popey> where from?
[13:44] <Goshawk> from the unpacked download
[13:46] <popey> where from?
[13:49] <Goshawk> i unpacked the DL on a external hd
[13:50] <AlanBell> from where did you download it?
[13:50] <gord> its probably trying to install in /opt/
[13:50] <AlanBell> and what is the installation path you are giving it?
[13:51] <Goshawk> AlanBell: http://www.playdeb.net/software/FreeOrion thats where the DL came from
[13:54] <AlanBell> hmm, that isn't working at all for me, but I am on 12.10
[13:55] <AlanBell> the whole playdeb thing seems to need to be set up as a repository
[13:55] <AlanBell> but anyhow, getting it from there it should be a package that installs through the software centre
[14:04] <Goshawk> i tryd that but software centre say it cant open the file
[14:09] <gord> should probably note that the last release they have for free orion was from 10.04
[14:13] <Goshawk> yeah, fair point
[14:19] <Goshawk> well thanks for the help anyhows :)
[14:29] <daubers> ls
[14:29] <daubers> bah
[14:36] <popey> .
[14:36] <popey> ..
[14:36] <popey> goat_porn
[14:40] <kirrus> how bored are you popey ? ;)
[14:41] <popey> heh
[14:44] <Flashtek> zleap:
[14:45] <daubers> rm -Rf ~popey
[14:45] <Seeker`> :O
[14:45] <Flashtek> sudo umount popey
[14:46] <daubers> less popey & more | cat kitten
[14:47] <daubers> I think freeview changing to DVB-S2 broke my old usb dvb dongle
[14:47]  * Flashtek is looking for a DSL modem that does bridging for use in the UK... recommendations via PM please...
[14:48] <mgdm> daubers: most things should still be DVB-T, thought it was only the HD stuff that was DVB-T2
[14:48] <daubers> mgdm: Maybe it's just old and pants then :)
[14:48] <mgdm> heh heh
[14:48] <mgdm> DVB-S2 is the Freesat stuff, iIRC
[14:48] <daubers> getting lots of "cannot pre fill buffer" and "Failed with errno 0 when reading" stuff
[14:49] <mgdm> hmmmm
[14:49] <daubers> ah interesting
[14:49] <daubers> take it out of the usb hub and it's fine
[14:51] <zleap> hi Flashtek
[14:52] <zleap> Flashtek,
[14:53] <daubers> Woot! Now I can get the radio properly :)
[14:53]  * daubers ponders streaming this around the house using vlc
[14:55] <daubers> Alternativley I could have just turned on the radio that's sat next to the laptop
[16:14] <davmor2> daubers: surely you mean less popey & more | tail -f kitten
[16:23] <popey> \o/ kittens
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> \o/ pumpkin soup
[16:31] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: you're making pumpkin lanterns?
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: no, just the soup
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> I'm not good enough with knives to make lanterns
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> I'd bleed dry before finishing one
[16:32]  * mgdm is going to ask his friend with a laser cutter
[16:32] <mgdm> ;-)
[16:33] <kirrus> mgdm: doesn't that count as cheating? (even if it is pretty awesome cheating)
[16:33] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: that's a shame :(
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: what about a waterjet?
[16:35] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: wouldn't that just get messy?
[16:37] <davmor2> \o/ Pumpkin Kittens \o/
[16:45] <daubers> popey: On the subject of kittens... do you have petplan or similar?
[16:45] <popey> we did
[16:45] <popey> but don't now
[16:45] <kirrus> davmor2: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9100/catolantern1cj2.jpg
[16:45] <daubers> How much was it? The missus wants a kitten
[16:45] <popey> they refused to pay out for our previous cat
[16:46] <daubers> really? on what grounds?
[16:46] <popey> pre-existing condition
[16:46] <popey> which we didn't know about
[16:46] <daubers> ah... ok
[16:46] <popey> they're arseholes
[16:46] <popey> they put the heavy sell on and make out like everything is covered
[16:46] <daubers> Isn't that just insurance companies in general??
[16:46] <popey> clare tore them apart on the phone
[16:46] <popey> not in my experience
[16:47] <daubers> do you have any form of pet insurance now? Or just cover it yourselves?
[16:47] <davmor2> kirrus: I was thinking more this kinda thing http://www.bandofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cat-pumpkin-stencils_waving-cat.jpg
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> stencils = cheating
[16:47] <davmor2> http://www.bandofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cat-pumpkin-carving_026.jpg
[16:48] <davmor2> http://www.meow.com/product_images/uploaded_images/cat-pumpkin-carving-062.jpg
[16:49]  * daubers gets the meerkats looking into it
[16:54] <daubers> Hmmm... according to the meerkats, homebase is better than petplan
[16:55] <kirrus> davmor2: they're cool
[17:01] <popey> daubers, we have none
[17:01] <popey> ooh, reminds me, car insurance due soon
[17:02] <popey> uh, the meerkcat thinks my car has 6 seats
[17:02] <daubers> popey: Ta :) Just need to find a kitten that needs a home now really
[17:08] <davmor2> popey: nice did you know about the extra seat?
[17:08]  * popey told the meerkat it has 5
[17:10] <davmor2> popey: did you not know your car is 2 front 2 back and 2 fold aways in the boot?
[17:10] <popey> it doesnt
[17:10] <popey> thats an option
[17:10] <popey> which it doesn't have
[17:11] <davmor2> popey: hahahaa or so you thought
[17:37] <ali1234> hey directhex, that stuff you posted on mjg's blog is factually inaccurate, jfyi :)
[17:37] <ali1234> "purging Microsoft's key means losing hardware support, unless you turn off Secure Boot." - this isn't true, it is possible to add the signatures of firmwares on a one by one basis, without needing the kek that they are all signed by
[17:38] <ali1234> and i realise that most people won't do it as it won't be easy, however, it is possible none the less
[18:04] <directhex> ali1234: did you reply as such on the blog?
[18:05] <ali1234> yes, but under a different thread
[19:34] <AlanBell> !info phpmyadmin
[20:15] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps
[20:30] <popey> pip pip
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> \o
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: what'd you think about my post about VMs and VLANs?
[20:48] <bootinfdsds> Screw-me ! Just stumbled across some dude called Richard D. Hall on Youtube.co.uk  :: Surprised that these people still exist !
[20:58] <dwatkins> UFO believers, bootinfdsds?
[20:59] <Azelphur> dwatkins: Alien believers just need to head to margate, people continually see a UFO moving at high speeds off the coast here, I've seen it myself
[20:59] <Azelphur> no idea wtf it is.
[20:59] <KrimZon> UFO believers don't actually exist, they're a hoax
[20:59] <Azelphur> UFO = unidentified flying object, just so we are clear here, take it literally. UFO != Aliens
[20:59] <dwatkins> I believe there are unidentified objects in the sky, but that just means that we havn't worked out what kind of plane they are yet.
[21:00] <dwatkins> My point exactly, Azelphur :)
[21:00] <Azelphur> ^ that
[21:00] <dwatkins> If there were aliens, I very much doubt they'd bother buzzing members of the public after flying all the way here. They'd either quietly approach the governments of the world, or they'd hang in the air for all to see like a large gold brick doesn't.
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: District 9
[21:01] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, or V or The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy ;)
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> V?!
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> V doesn't have aliens...
[21:02] <dwatkins> the ships hung in the air
[21:02] <Azelphur> hitchhikers guide to the galaxy would be amusing
[21:02] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yes it does O.O
[21:02] <Azelphur> did you even watch V
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: assuming http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ here
[21:02] <bootinfdsds> dwatkins, crop circles versus MI5 too !
[21:02] <Azelphur> that's V for vendetta, not V
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there's a difference?!
[21:02] <Azelphur> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307824/
[21:02] <dwatkins> I mean this series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhtkV5622Yo
[21:02] <Azelphur> xD
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> oh
[21:03] <dwatkins> ff to 30s for the ships hovering
[21:03] <Azelphur> no aliens, just ignore those big space ship thingies.
[21:03] <Azelphur> they are ... uhh ... christmas decorations!
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> Independence Day
[21:03] <dwatkins> so, aliens either don't exist, or they're quietly liaising with the governments of this world and we'll never know.
[21:04] <dwatkins> ah yes, thanks MartijnVdS - I knew there was at least one more film I was thinking of
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> "Let's use a mac to upload the virus to the alien ship."
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> proving that macs came from aliens.
[21:04] <dwatkins> considering the vast distances involved, I think it's more likely that no alien race has discovered yet, and highly possible that we're the first race to get beyond banging rocks together.
[21:04] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, that makes me laugh every time :)
[21:05] <dwatkins> oh look, their alien operating system is binary compatible to a PowerBook...
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: then it MUST be alien!
[21:05] <dwatkins> hahaha
[21:05] <dwatkins> perhaps Apple were run by aliens back then...
[21:05] <dwatkins> *conspiracy*
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> Jobs didn't die, he just went home
[21:06] <dwatkins> dun dun duuuuuuun - the real mystery unfolds
[21:06]  * AlanBell wonders what happened to shuttleworth on the ISS
[21:06] <dwatkins> he went up there?
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: why do you think Ubuntu looks like MacOS these days
[21:06] <AlanBell> dwatkins: his thinkpad is still up there as far as I know
[21:07] <dwatkins> cool
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> forgot to pack? :)
[21:07] <AlanBell> http://ariss.rac.ca/faqariss2.htm blown power supply now
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxAoxwYyxE&feature=plcp
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Do you use libvirt/any other kind of virtualization on Ubuntu? :)
[21:08] <dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS :)
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4qRJ-ym3U0&feature=plcp :)
[21:09] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: sure, KVM on servers and virtualbox on laptop
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did you see my post about vlans? Took me ages to figure it all out 8-)
[21:10] <AlanBell> oh, I did have a read, I was going to re-read it slowly with our server config in front of me
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> heh :)
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> vlan trunks are fun
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> once you understand how they interact with Linux and the bridge code
[21:12] <AlanBell> yeah, allows us to use all the addresses in a subnet
[21:12] <dwatkins> I wonder if I should do a CCNA or something similar.
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> It also allow you to separate traffic from different networks completely.. like "customer" and "office" traffic (as I've used it for)
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> They only "meet" on the router
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> and it's smart enough not to forward everything ;0
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[21:15] <AlanBell> /etc/network/interfaces has 162 lines on this host
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if you have questions, or if it's unclear, just ask :)
[21:16] <AlanBell> vmbuilder is new to me too
[21:16] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Mark Shut. was giving a talk on the tele this week about space .. Do you want me to find the link ?
[21:17] <AlanBell> bootinfdsds: sure, that sounds interesting
[21:17] <bootinfdsds> scanning 4 Mark S. ....
[21:18] <bootinfdsds> Not sure if its blocked now .. but here it is ..http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/7128   TEll me if it works , please.
[21:18] <AlanBell> I got one of those £29 SSDs today, deciding whether to let one of the kids use it or find something better to do with it
[21:19] <AlanBell> bootinfdsds: works, thanks
[21:19] <bootinfdsds> cool ;)
[21:21] <bootinfdsds> I sat my bicycle theory exam in that hall .. very nerve-racking, let me tell you !
[21:23]  * daubers doesn't want to buy 5000 resistors :(
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> daubers: You could sell them at a profit
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> daubers: there's an option to buy SMD stuff in small quantities.. let me find it
[21:23] <daubers> Surface Mount resistors? Who'd buy those
[21:24] <daubers> MartijnVdS: At HUGE cost
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: no at REASONABLE Cost
[21:24] <daubers> Nobody does good deals on middling amounts
[21:24] <daubers> I need 60!
[21:24] <daubers> Just 60!
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: yes!
[21:24] <daubers> Or 30 even
[21:24] <daubers> sorry
[21:24] <daubers> 5 boards not 10
[21:25] <bootinfdsds> How can you resist ?
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> daubers: you can buy several 100 for a fair price.. not quite 5000
[21:27] <daubers> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surface-mount-fixed-resistors/7172994/
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: they even put it on a pick&place reel for you
[21:28] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Building a pick and place machine to populate 5 boards is even sillier than buying 5000 resistors when I need 30!
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: in that case.. why NOT buy 5000?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> and.. I don't know.. sell them to the needy?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> leave them at the hackspace for general use?
[21:29] <daubers> But 5000 resistors is a _lot_
[21:30] <daftykins> daubers: it was you that works with RAID a lot wasn't it?
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> daubers: it is..
[21:30] <daubers> daftykins: Yes
[21:30] <daftykins> ever make much of 3ware controller resets under Windows?
[21:30] <daubers> urgh
[21:30] <daubers> 2 words in that sentence that make me want to run and hide
[21:30] <daftykins> :D
[21:30] <daubers> 3ware and Windows
[21:30] <daftykins> yay \o/
[21:31] <daftykins> normally i see it if i have to reset the PC, but i got one during use recently
[21:31] <daftykins> not sure whether i should be concerned yet
[21:31] <daubers> Is the controller bombing out?
[21:31] <daftykins> not that i've seen
[21:31] <daftykins> the message just came up in the Windows AV alarm prog
[21:32] <daubers> What was the message?
[21:32] <daftykins> INFO   :  Sep 29, 2012 06:10:21 PM: Controller 0: Controller reset occurred: resets=1
[21:32] <daubers> How many drives, PCI or PCI-E and what PSU?
[21:33] <daftykins> PCI-E, pretty darn new Corsair AX750, PCI-E x4 controller
[21:33] <daftykins> actually, 8x card in a 4x slot
[21:33] <daubers> how many drives are you running?
[21:33] <daftykins> 6
[21:33] <daftykins> verify ops check out fine
[21:34] <daubers> Windows install is all ok? No media errors on whatever it's installed on?
[21:34] <daubers> Oh, what drives?
[21:34] <daftykins> probably. OS is on its' own disk and seems ok
[21:35] <daftykins> er 5 x WD1000FYPS and 1 x WD2002<something here> due to RMA
[21:35] <daubers> Western Digis????
[21:35] <daftykins> yish
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> :( WD
[21:35] <daftykins> WD are fiiiiine
[21:35] <daubers> hmmm.... rather you than me...
[21:35] <daftykins> have had a couple of deaths :)
[21:36] <daftykins> very far spaced out though
[21:36] <daftykins> one when this array was new, in 2008
[21:36] <daftykins> and another hmm... last year
[21:36] <bootinfdsds> Wow .. just looking at the past hour .. UFO's entered the log and then it all gone abit stratospheric.
[21:36] <daubers> We found that western digi's tended to occasionally wipe out whole arrays
[21:37] <daftykins> even when only with their own exact kind?
[21:37] <daubers> Yup
[21:37] <daubers> so each disk is 7.4W peak so 45W for the disks
[21:37] <daftykins> power's never gonna be an issue on that box
[21:38] <daftykins> 125W draw according to the UPS :)
[21:39] <daubers> daftykins: That's a mantra I've heard a few times :)
[21:39] <daftykins> amusingly a while back i went to do some maintenance on said box
[21:39] <daftykins> switched it off - never came back again :D
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> daubers: so.. always overspec power massively?
[21:40] <daftykins> had to buy a new PSU then and there
[21:40] <daubers> HDD's run off the 12v rail don't they
[21:40]  * daubers always forget
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> sata is 5+3.3 isn't it?
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> or is it 12+3.3
[21:41] <daubers> Your max output on the 3.3 Rail is 125W....
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> daubers: SATA is 3.3, 5 AND 12V
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> so it could be any
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> or all
[21:41] <daubers> or 3.3v and 5v rail
[21:41] <daubers> page 7 http://www.corsair.com/en/media/cms/manual/49-000037_revAB_AXManual_Webversion.pdf as listed
[21:41] <daubers> so it depends which rail is providing that 125W that the UPS is saying
[21:41] <daubers> is that idle or in use?
[21:42] <daftykins> er no that's the entire system draw
[21:44] <daubers> Yes :) But when you get close to a rail's limit things get uppity sometimes.
[21:44] <daftykins> still not quite sure where the leap to rails came from but righty-o ;)
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> leap rails.. now there's a concept
[21:45] <daubers> If it's 20 watts on the 12v rail and 105W on the 3.3v and 5v rail then I'd expect the PSU to get grumpy when the things are being abused
[21:45] <daftykins> i've got 500GB left on this 5TB array, don't think i can be bothered to buy another set of disks and upgrade any time soon
[21:45] <daftykins> plus the 3ware can't do more than 2TB disks anyway
[21:45] <daubers> however, 3ware RAID cards are a law unto nuggun in themselves
[21:46] <daubers> I have 3 in a cupboard gathering dust as their all as bad as each other
[21:46] <daftykins> got a new favourite?
[21:46] <daubers> We still use Areca cards
[21:46] <daubers> What does the machine do?
[21:46] <daftykins> ah i told a lie, i'm at 108W idle atm
[21:46] <daubers> Ah. PSU might be ok then.
[21:46] <daftykins> run two VMs, idle, file serve...
[21:47] <daubers> I'd suspect the cards :)
[21:47] <daftykins> good times \o/
[21:47] <daubers> daftykins: In that case I'd look at adaptec cards, they have some nice "Use this SSD as block cache" things in them
[21:47] <daubers> pricey though
[21:47] <daftykins> i thought adaptec went the way of the dodo 0o
[21:47] <daubers> http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/
[21:47] <daubers> Nope :)
[21:48] <daftykins> oddness, i read loads of articles about how their main shareholder had muscled in and wanted to dissolve the company
[21:48] <daubers> Pretty good cards from the few I've dabbled with. Linux drivers are/where a bit pants, and configuring the thing in linux is like building a house out of peas
[21:50] <daftykins> hmm are we still at 3TB the largest disk
[21:50] <daubers> You can get 4TB drives. They're a bit weird in performance terms though
[21:50] <daftykins> ah no 4TB from Hitachi
[21:50] <daubers> No idea how reliable they are as we can't certify them until we've sussed the performance
[21:51] <daftykins> been a bit erratic?
[21:51] <daubers> No... just weird
[21:52] <daubers> We normally see high end streaming increase, but with the 4TB drives they're improving performance at the bottom end (ioppy stuff) but the top end is suffering
[21:52] <daftykins> ah
[21:52] <daftykins> how odd
[21:52] <daubers> Looks like they'd been optimised for file serving too much
[21:52] <daubers> not a problem in your environment however :)
[21:52] <daftykins> ^_^
[21:52] <daftykins> good ol' storage
[21:52] <daftykins> can almost put all my stuff on a single disk now
[21:53] <daubers> ....... a risk taker I see
[21:53] <daftykins> heh
[21:53] <daftykins> not really
[21:53] <daubers> :)
[21:53] <daftykins> not since i have a grand of 1TB RAID edition ones, for the lengthy warranty
[21:53] <daftykins> just had enough of replacing it all every 4-5 years
[21:53] <daftykins> costly exercise
[21:53] <daftykins> i don't really hoard as much as i used to now either
[21:53] <daubers> yeah. HDD prices are starting to normalise a bit now
[21:57] <daftykins> ebuyer got rid of their remove-VAT button >_<
[21:57] <daubers> daftykins: Does the RAID you have problems with go to sleep and then spin back up again when it's not busy?
[21:59] <daubers> Also WD data sheets suck
[21:59] <daubers> Where the hell is the spin-up power requirement?
[22:00] <shauno> people actually pay attention to inrush?  how many you stacking?
[22:00] <daubers> Gave up with WD when I asked one of their support guys about that and got the response of "*snort* /Our/ drives don't need to spin up, they're green don't you know"
[22:01] <daubers> shauno: I have a box at work with 32 Hitachi 3TB drives in it.. that _has_ to spin each drive up individually with a wait time between them, or the box get's sad
[22:01] <shauno> ah
[22:02] <shauno> I work with UPSes .. way too used to phantom overloads when machines blow past their spec on inrush current
[22:04] <daftykins> daubers: nah i consider that a bad move for reliability
[22:05] <daftykins> pretty much all controllers i've seen use staggered spin-up
[22:10] <daubers> daftykins: Turn it off and watch the fireworks :)
[22:10] <daftykins> ?
[22:10] <daubers> I turned off staggered spinups to test a cheap UPS someone asked me about. Needless to say it got RMA'd :)
[22:10] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:11] <daubers> Yes spin up 128 disks ALL AT ONCE!
[22:11] <daftykins> i'd have thought the PSU would do something before a UPS
[22:11] <daubers> 4 chassis :)
[22:12] <daftykins> ooh
[22:19]  * daubers heads to bed
[22:22] <daftykins> daubers: same, cheers for your input o/


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[15:52] <tremolux> kiwinote!  \o/
[15:52] <tremolux> :D
[15:52] <kiwinote> hey tremolux!
[16:01] <mpt> Good morning folks
[16:02] <oSoMoN> good morning
[16:02] <mpt> and especially kiwinote and tremolux :-)
[16:02] <kiwinote> morning everyone!
[16:02] <tremolux> hello mpt!
[16:03] <tremolux> hey oSoMoN!  :D
[16:03] <oSoMoN> hey tremolux!
[16:04] <tremolux> oSoMoN: are you at UDS or remote today?
[16:04] <oSoMoN> tremolux: at UDS
[16:05] <seb24_> Hello
[16:05] <stokachu> HaI
[16:05] <tremolux> hey mvo! I can hear you very well
[16:05] <zematynnad> can hear you fine
[16:08] <mpt> hello
[16:09] <mpt> There are many improvements to the purchase process
[16:09] <mpt> I'd like to demote the "All Software" and "Installed" toolbar dropdowns to a top-level "Go" menu
[16:09] <mpt> and change (most of) search results from the current list views to tile views
[16:10] <mpt> Those are the only major design changes, I think
[16:10] <mpt> and I'd quite understand if none of them got done
[16:11] <mpt> yes, it would need pagination
[16:11] <mpt> hm, I hadn't thought about that
[16:11] <mpt> currently the tile is a large click target for going to the item screen
[16:12] <mpt> having a small click target inside that would be ... interesting
[16:13] <mpt> Sorry dpitkin, the audio stream is breaking up
[16:13] <mpt> The #1 way to reduce clicks+keypresses for purchases, at least, would be remembering payment details, but that's a topic for the server session
[16:15] <mpt> So, either a split view, or a way of having multiple windows open at once
[16:16] <mpt> "Edit" > "Copy Web Location"
[16:16] <mpt> It's been in USC since version 1.0
[16:16] <tremolux> ^^^  :)
[16:17] <mpt> It doesn't take you to the Web directory because the Web directory is on the wrong domain
[16:18] <mpt> but we can fix that and set up redirects
[16:27] <mpt> like Amazon Listmania
[16:27] <mpt> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=897828
[16:31] <mpt> ---
[16:32] <mpt> Lists of multiple items: If you enter a comma-separated list of packages, USC does provide an "Install All" button. That needs abstracting to apt: and then to apt.ubuntu.com
[16:32] <mpt> Hi Ethan
[16:35] <mpt> ---
[16:35] <mpt> Donations: For open-source software, the trademark holder would be more important than the copyright holder
[16:37] <mpt> "Donate" is different from "Buy" in that you could donate before, during, after, or without installing
[16:39] <mpt> e.g. "Program X won't be useful to me until it has feature Y, but I'll donate to the developers to encourage them to implement it"
[16:39] <mpt> Kickstarter-like, I guess so
[16:49] <mpt> ---
[16:50] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 5 minutes left in this session!
[16:50] <mpt> Async data provider: Is that what is necessary for Update Manager to show the same application names+icons as USC does? Or is it more than that?
[16:51] <mpt> ok
[16:51] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 4 minutes left in this session!
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[16:55] <mpt> Thanks all
[16:56] <tremolux> thanks everybody
[16:56] <zematynnad> have a good one everyone
[16:56]  * tremolux wants a UDS cookie
[16:56] <zematynnad> +1
[19:09] <s-fox> Hey, can someone turn up the mic please?
[19:09] <bobweaver> +1 s-fox
[19:12] <bobweaver>  \o knows make
[19:19] <bobweaver> what about things like different desktop aka gnome trow back ect  ?
[19:46] <bobweaver> QUESTION: is there any way that we can ask questions about the community section of the slideshow ?
[19:48] <bobweaver> about the ubuntu forums
[19:48] <bobweaver> we would like to make a javascript one that shows all
[19:49] <bobweaver> thanks !
[19:50] <bobweaver> If I work on somethings I will push branch too launchpad :) thanks again
[19:51] <bobweaver> I can say 100% that I would not be here if it was not for the forums a lot people say the same thing :)
[19:51] <s-fox> The forum has 1.6 million members. I want to give the best possible chance of users getting help.
[19:52] <bobweaver> seems like with the SSO stuff coming it is all tied togeather thansk again for hearing me out :)
[19:54] <bobweaver> make TODO to trim up README
[19:54] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 5 minutes left in this session!
[19:54] <bobweaver> Yes
[19:55] <bobweaver> jono and others are working on that for ubuntu -accompesments at least I hear that
[19:55] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 4 minutes left in this session!
[19:56] <s-fox> we've been trying to get inclusion with the firefox bookmarks too :)
[19:56] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 3 minutes left in this session!
[19:56] <bobweaver> screen shot sounds GREAT !
[19:57] <bobweaver> anything sounds better then it is now
[19:57] <bobweaver> as there is nothing pointing to the forums
[19:57] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 2 minutes left in this session!
[19:57] <bobweaver> Please let me know if there is anything that I can help with
[19:57] <bobweaver> my LP is josephjamesmills
[19:58] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: 1 minute left in this session!
[19:58] <bobweaver> thanks again all smiles here
[19:59] <bobweaver> great to know that you are willing to work with every thing
[19:59] <bobweaver> Is there anything that we can tell FC members too do ?
[19:59] <udsbotu> uds-gb-c: This session has ended.
[20:00] <s-fox> forum council members
[20:00] <s-fox> ?
[20:00] <bobweaver> s-fox,  yeah that is what I was talking about
[20:01] <bobweaver> s-fox,  ubuntu-forums
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[23:00] <erichammond> audio cuts off when the session ends, huh.
[23:00] <erichammond> hi!
[23:01] <erichammond> I'm trying to learn what this juju/charm thing is and if I need to start using and pushing it.
[23:02] <erichammond> I'll be flying up to UDS tonight and will attend Wed,Thu,Fri.
[23:11] <josephmills> Once again thanks for answering my questions off to other meeting  Have a good one :)
[23:11] <josephmills> woops wrong channel
[23:22] <bobweaver> Yup
[23:22] <bobweaver> sound is good :)
[23:33] <bobweaver> Question: Is there a list off apps that Ubuntu is looking for ?
[23:45] <bobweaver>  debian/control file
[23:45] <bobweaver> there are converters
[23:46] <bilal> http://xkcd.com/927/
[23:46] <komputes> bilal: one of my favorite ones
[23:46] <bilal> yeah, and highly relevant in this case
[23:53] <james__> https://plus.google.com/109922199462633401279/posts/HgdeFDfRzNe
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[17:55] <nhandler> Does anyone know of a moinmoin macro to display a list of child pages, and has the ability to specify certain pages to exclude from the list?
[19:22] <gispita> hello to everyone ...
[19:22] <gispita> it is anyone online to help me please for just 1 min ?
[19:26] <gispita> can anyone to tell me how to change the su passwd ...
[19:26] <gispita> i just install the ubuntu 10.4 and i try it to do su
[19:26] <gispita> and password what i set wen i install him
[19:26] <gispita> and not working ...
[19:26] <gispita> any password i try not working ???
[19:26] <gispita> know any one what`s the password for su ?
[19:54] <Captainkrtek> gispita, just use sudo
[19:54] <Captainkrtek> gispita, this is not a support channel by the way, try #ubuntu
[19:58] <gispita> ok thanks


[19:12] <kklimonda> hmm.. has anyone tried contacting canonical about getting standalong landscape server (or even hosted instance) without support and legal aide for schools for a smaller price?
[22:01] <highvoltage> kklimonda: hey. they do provide standalone servers, but you have to contact them directly for that, unfortunately