[01:00] <XVampireX> is gutsy stable?
[01:00] <MugginsM> compared to feisty, no, compared to redhat in 1998, very
[01:02] <XVampireX> Ok, cool, maybe I'll upgrade...
[01:08] <MugginsM> don't upgrade on anything important :)
[01:23] <derekS> i wonder why i can't get peers on the gutsy torrent
[01:23] <derekS> tribe 2
[01:27] <Bro_21> \
[02:18] <LinuxProbie> Anyonbe active in here?
[03:13] <starz> derekS: your probably not ported
[03:13] <starz> bittorrent is not very friendly to non-ported users =/
[03:19] <LinuxProbie> Can someone remind me of the command to mount an ISO?
[03:30] <derekS> starz: hmm, i htink i am
[03:30] <derekS> lemme check
[03:32] <derekS> starz: i am ported correctly
[03:33] <kingrayray> is there any ETA on libcurl being fixed :(
[03:34] <kingrayray> I wanna install mpd
[03:36] <starz> derekS: are you useing the built in bittorrent?
[03:36] <starz> its really horrid
[03:36] <starz> try utorrent / azureus / or bittornado-gui
[03:36] <kingrayray> did they actually port utorrent
[03:37] <starz> no
[03:37] <starz> works darn decent in wine tho
[03:37] <kingrayray> im using transmission
[03:37] <derekS> starz: ktorrent
[03:39] <derekS> trying with rtorren
[03:39] <derekS> t
[03:40] <derekS> starz: still can only find one peer
[03:41] <starz> then do ddl
[03:41] <starz> or axel it
[03:41] <derekS> ddl?
[03:41] <starz> !gutsy
[03:41] <ubotu> Gutsy Gibbon is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule - Roadmap and specifications: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - Support in #ubuntu+1
[03:42] <starz> sudo apt-get install axel
[03:42] <derekS> thanks
[03:42] <starz> then
[03:42] <starz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/gutsy/tribe-2/
[03:42] <starz> right there
[03:43] <starz> axel http://link.to.iso.img.iso
[03:43] <starz> and vua la it dls fast
[03:43] <starz> but - DOES IT BLEND!
[05:54] <bderrly> what is the difference between a -dgb and a -dbgsym package and which is the preferred package?
[08:14] <crackerbox> hey guys quick question... maybe you can shed some light... im trying to get CurlFTPfs to work in feisty by taking the source from the gusty release and compiling it on 7.04 as instructed by a thread in the forum that I am unable to link to... I have gotten it compiled but i dont think things are working correctly, one of the posters mentioned linking the libcurl-Gnuts.so's but im not following that part
[08:33] <aslan> hey guys, I am trying to run apt-get update and it can't connect to security.ubuntu.com
[08:33] <aslan> Anyone else having this problem ?
[08:36] <Jordan_U> aslan, Try again
[08:36] <aslan> Jordan_U: awesome thanks
[08:37] <aslan> Jordan_U: yep fixed now.. was that also related to ubuntuforums being down ?
[08:38] <Jordan_U> aslan, I figure it was
[08:39] <Jordan_U> aslan, Would have to be a pretty big coincidence if it wasn't :)
[08:39] <aslan> hehe ya ;)
[08:56] <pschulz01> I am having an issue with the gutsy-desktop-amd64 installation. I should be able to install this on x86_64 yes?..Drops into a busybox shell.
[09:07] <RoC_MasterMind> I have my hard drive configured as a IDE slave...if I switch it to master, will Ubuntu still boot properly and work...or will it be confused with thte device name changes?
[11:32] <h3sp4wn> RoC_MasterMind: It won't be confused (presuming you use UUID's (the default)
[11:43] <bohdan> Hi
[11:50] <hansin321> Does anyone know off hand where to disable the Gnome splash screen in Gutsy?
[11:53] <bohdan> Hi is anyone alive in here?
[11:53] <bohdan> i need to ask a wierd question
[11:53] <bohdan> about gutsy
[11:53] <chand|> hansin321: there is a gconf key /apps/gnome-session/options/show_splash_screen
[11:54] <bohdan> i have 7 400gb hard disks in a dynamic ntfs partition (roughly 2.5tb formatted) will gutsy be able to mount the dynamic spanned volume?
[12:06] <chand|> bohdan: it depends on ntfs driver
[12:06] <bohdan> can u name a ntfs driver that will work?
[12:06] <bohdan> i have no way to back up all that data :|
[12:07] <chand|> bohdan: i think u can try ntfs 3g
[12:07] <bohdan> i've looked but no one really specifies if it will work or not its the dynamic volume that makes its hard
[12:07] <chand|> bohdan: perhaps dynamic volume isn't support*
[12:08] <bohdan> :(
[12:08] <bohdan> o well
[12:17] <hansin321> chand|: Thanks.  I guess what I am trying to do (and my Splash is already disabled from in Feisty), is that after I log into GDM, but before Gnome loads, my screen goes a peachy color for a few seconds where I would normally have the splash screen.  I wanted to change the peachy color for something more appropriate for my blue theme I have set up in Gnome.
[12:20] <hansin321> I have 'hacked' this before be setting the background color to what I wanted and well I can't even remember, but thought wherever I could set the splash screen might have a way to fudge this to my liking...
[12:25] <XVampireX> There's a problem with nvidia-glx-new not supplying a file called libwfb
[12:42] <XVampireX> It's a known bug that hasn't been fixed yet since feisty
[01:01] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[01:02] <XVampireX> MacSlow, is that really you? :P
[01:20] <Howitzer> Hi
[01:20] <Howitzer> How is the wireless ralink chipset RT2500 support doing ATM?
[01:21] <Howitzer> because I got this new wireless card about 6 months ago ad it was a no-go in every linux distro i tried so i had given up
[01:21] <Howitzer> but now it's summer vacation and i have some free time so i'm willing to try again
[01:23] <gnomefreak> Howitzer: plans on adding support for that in gutsy but has not been done yet AFAIK
[01:24] <Howitzer> oh
[01:24] <Howitzer> i actually meant RT61 but i guess it doesn't make any difference
[01:25] <gnomefreak> it might
[01:25] <Howitzer> oh my
[01:25] <AnRkey> are there any known issues with the gutsy network installer?
[01:25] <Howitzer> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=132980
[01:25] <Howitzer> i love the forums
[01:25] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: not really
[01:25] <AnRkey> trying to install using network installer and pxe booting
[01:25] <AnRkey> i am using apt-mirror on our network here
[01:26] <AnRkey> hmm
[01:26] <AnRkey> ok brb
[01:26] <AnRkey> is there a way to check the integrity of a apt-mirrored repo?
[01:27] <AnRkey> i finally have time to do some hard testing of tribe 2 and now this :(
[01:29] <calc> AnRkey: that would be nice to be able to do for apt-cacher as well
[01:29] <calc> actually would be nice for apt-cacher to be able to cache by repo
[01:31] <AnRkey> u have not yet used apt-cacher
[01:31] <AnRkey> as far as i know you can run more than one apt-cache and just change the port it works on
[01:31] <AnRkey> then you can have lots of them, one for each repo
[01:31] <AnRkey> not confirmed though
[01:31] <AnRkey> i should try it
[01:34] <AnRkey> not much in the man page
[01:35] <AnRkey> gnomefreak, looks like it does md5 checks
[01:35] <AnRkey> hmm
[03:50] <flake> how is gutsy? seems to run well on vmware
[03:51] <flake> the appliance i used
[03:51] <sn0> few issues at the moment flake (if not already fixed) but runs nice so far :)
[03:52] <flake> ty
[03:52] <flake> i see it is gnomish
[03:53] <flake> how can i choose between kde and gnome :/   i love the geek in me but the geek likes the nerd in me
[04:03] <flake> gutsy will support kde4 and be a LTS version?
[04:04] <Hobbsee> no
[04:04] <flake> kubuntu will..
[04:05] <flake> http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/kde-4-kubuntu-systemsettings-vs-kcontrol/
[04:05] <Hobbsee> kubuntu will have rc2 of kde4, it will not be a LTS
[04:05] <Hobbsee> and it will be in universe
[04:05] <Hobbsee> not in main
[04:05] <flake> I'm confused again
[04:06] <Hobbsee> gutsy is not the LTS.  gutsy+1 is the likely LTS
[04:07] <flake> ok.. what is feisty, gutsy, gutsy+1 - is it the interface for the window management like kde and gnome?
[04:09] <Pici> feisty/gutsy are just the development codenames for 7.10/7.04
[04:09] <sn0> flake ubuntu always defaults to gnome, as ubuntu releases typically are 1 month after stable gnome releases
[04:10] <flake> ok
[04:12] <flake> kubuntu is kde+ubuntu.. I guess it's not gubuntu cause the 'g' in gnome is silent
[04:14] <flake> g2g, thanks
[04:47] <MrFeeti1> what kernel is 7.10 running on right now?
[04:48] <lamalex> 2.6.22
[05:00] <slimz> whats the desktop effects channel? i cant get cube reflection to work:(
[05:05] <MrFeeti1> i installed gusty and loved it
[05:05] <MrFeeti1> then i realized i like smaller text
[05:06] <MrFeeti1> what was the default font size for feisty?
[05:15] <germanjew> how can set up internet (dailup) on my laptop (its a simcard in my pc)
[05:39] <sn0> germanjew this channel is for gutsy discussion, please join #ubuntu for ubuntu support
[05:43] <germanjew> sorry i'm just trying my luck ;p at lest i got a reply here ;D
[05:47] <starz> slimz: i think that might be the compiz-fusion channel but im not 100%
[05:53] <starz> btw i got moto4lin working :D
[05:53] <starz> so amazing hehe
[05:53] <starz> if i could get a couple more of my cell hacking tools working i would be able to abandon my win install entirely - just not quite there yet
[05:54] <starz> but this is closer than ive ever been before :)
[05:54] <starz> as is i only boot into it every couple months for a few hours anyway kekeke
[05:54] <starz> and unfortunately a virtualized install wont work as it cant take control of the usb properly =/
[05:57] <sn0> im in the etqw beta and its win only :< so having to dual boot
[08:30] <crackerbox> ok here comes a hard question: while trying to get curl-FTP-fs (curlftpfs) to work in feisty, I am being effected by the well known bug in feisty's version of libcurl.  According to this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=423899&highlight=curlftpfs you can compile the new version of libcurl (from gusty repo) and then link some other lib... compiling is not the problem, but getting the last part of this "to update libcurl
[08:30] <crackerbox> it seems no one in the ubuntu channel knows about it
[08:31] <mrsno> crackerbox im not sure using libcurl from gutsy is a good idea, as topic says there are currently 'issues'
[08:31] <mrsno> but im not aware of how far along they rae
[08:31] <mrsno> maybe go back to dapper/edgy ?
[08:33] <crackerbox> what is the proper way to downgrade that?
[08:33] <mrsno> there is no way to downgrade, it will cause you lots of pain so just back up + reinsstall :-)
[08:33] <crackerbox> oh... you mean go all the way back to edgy
[08:34] <mrsno> if it indeed works thats an option yes
[08:34] <crackerbox> not just using the libcurl version 7.15.4
[08:34] <crackerbox> did you see the link for the thread i posted?
[08:35] <crackerbox> 2 people say that compiling libcurl 7.16.2 works...
[08:35] <crackerbox> can you take a look... the only part im not getting is about linking libs
[08:36] <crackerbox> i posted 2 replies on there as mburris
[08:36] <mrsno> bug 112256
[08:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112256 in curl "libcurl  7.15.5-1ubuntu2 + curlftpfs 0.9.1 hangs!" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112256
[08:37] <crackerbox> yes i read that last night...
[08:37] <mrsno> well the truth is its not something i would recommend, if libcurl is going to change yet again (as it has some problems)
[08:37] <crackerbox> this is interesting "edgy version 7.15.4  seems to work also in feisty"
[08:37] <mrsno> can't help sorry
[08:39] <crackerbox> please... at least point me in the right direction as far as using libcurl 7.15.4 in feisty... do i simply take the libcurl*.so.* files from the edgy deb and replace my fesity ones?
[08:39] <crackerbox> or do i compile it from source on my feisty box?
[08:39] <mrsno> crackerbox i will *not* assist you in breaking your install, sorry
[08:39] <crackerbox> dude... that is lame
[08:39] <crackerbox> ubuntu is about freedom
[08:40] <crackerbox> this is a dev box i have
[08:40] <crackerbox> i can restore in less than 5 minutes
[08:40] <crackerbox> sounds like you just dont *want* or just dont *know*
[08:41] <mrsno> well if you know the problem is "currently" fixed in gutsy, and you don't mind hosing your install, why not dist-upgrade to gutsy and see?
[08:41] <mrsno> instead of assuming i don't want to hellp
[08:42] <crackerbox> the problem isnt fixed in gusty, however the problem (curlftpfs freezing all the time) is reportedly not an issue when using libcurl version 7.16.2) if the only part of my project that Im missing is curlftpfs working... i dont want to start all over with gusty
[08:44] <crackerbox> i dont even want a step by step... i would like someone to look at the thread and give me some insight on what this sentence means:  PS Dont forget to enable gnutls while configuring curl, and to update libcurl-gnutls links in your /usr/lib
[08:44] <crackerbox> i understand configuring curl with gnutls... its the libcurl-gnuts links part im not sure of
[08:46] <crackerbox> from the curlftpfs home page on SF... "12-Feb-2007 - New libcurl version  I noticed there is a new version of libcurl: 7.16.1. It seems to be working fine with CurlFtpFS. "
[08:46] <crackerbox> thats all i want
[08:46] <crackerbox> maybe im crazy but i dont think it should be that hard to update one library on my system
[08:49] <crackerbox> will someone please help me break my install
[08:49] <gavintlgold> run this command: sudo rm --recursive /usr <<< SARCASM
[08:50] <crackerbox> thats one way
[08:50] <crackerbox> too easy though
[08:50] <lamalex> haha
[08:50] <crackerbox> i'd like to break my install by getting libcurl 7.16.2 on my feisty box
[08:51] <crackerbox> its like im asking for someone to pull a Doctor Kavorkian
[08:52] <crackerbox> dont retreat...
[08:52] <crackerbox> how about lib files in general?
[08:53] <gavintlgold> nope
[08:53] <crackerbox> anyone have any clue about what this means: "and to update libcurl-gnutls links in your /usr/lib"???
[08:53] <crackerbox> lamalex... you?
[08:54] <crackerbox> do I have to run some sort to lib utility to get new libraries working... kinda like regsrv32?
[08:54] <crackerbox> libtool perhaps?
[08:56] <crackerbox> looks like libtool stuff was already in the makefile
[08:56] <crackerbox> well thanks for the help, mrsno
[08:56] <crackerbox> how fitting a nick is that?
[08:56] <crackerbox> Mrs No
[08:56] <SourceContact> crackerbox: ldconfig
[08:59] <crackerbox> so ldconfig updates my /etc/ld.so.conf file...
[09:03] <SourceContact> crackerbox: yep, now apologize to mrsno
[09:05] <crackerbox> sorry i called you Mrs No
[09:06] <SourceContact> :)
[09:07] <crackerbox> source did you see my original question?
[09:08] <SourceContact> crackerbox: no
[09:08] <crackerbox> ok here comes a hard question: while trying to get curl-FTP-fs (curlftpfs) to work in feisty, I am being effected by the well known bug in feisty's version of libcurl.  According to this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=423899&highlight=curlftpfs you can compile the new version of libcurl (from gusty repo) and then link some other lib... compiling is not the problem, but getting the last part of this "to update libcurl
[09:08] <crackerbox> the thread is only 4 posts long
[09:09] <crackerbox> most of it is mburris (me)
[09:09] <SourceContact> ok, let me check it out, just a sec.
[09:12] <crackerbox> thanks
[09:15] <SourceContact> ok, read the thread
[09:15] <SourceContact> did you ldconfig?
[09:15] <crackerbox> just "sudo ldconfig"
[09:15] <crackerbox> ?
[09:15] <SourceContact> yep
[09:16] <crackerbox> yes
[09:16] <SourceContact> now, sudo ldconfig -p
[09:16] <SourceContact> that will list the loaded libraries
[09:17] <SourceContact> wait, either it will do that or format the drive - I forget which ;)
[09:17] <crackerbox> well if i dont reply you'll know what happened :)
[09:18] <crackerbox> well there are too many lines... it wont let me scroll all the way up.
[09:18] <crackerbox> i'll output it to a txt file
[09:18] <Pici> or pipe it through less
[09:18] <SourceContact> you can do this: sudo ldconfig -p | grep whateverthenameis
[09:20] <mrsno> its mr sno actually ;)
[09:20] <crackerbox> i figured
[09:20] <crackerbox> libcurl.so.4 (libc6) => /usr/lib/libcurl.so.4
[09:20] <crackerbox>         libcurl-gnutls.so.3 (libc6) => /usr/lib/libcurl-gnutls.so.3
[09:20] <crackerbox>         libcurl-gnutls.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libcurl-gnutls.so
[09:20] <crackerbox>         libcupsimage.so.2 (libc6) => /usr/lib/libcupsimage.so.2
[09:20] <SourceContact> crackerbox: I'm at work so I have to go - but real quick, does it look like you have the right version you need?
[09:21] <crackerbox> libc6?
[09:21] <SourceContact> you can check: ls -lash /usr/lib/libcurl*
[09:21] <SourceContact> no, not that, the libcurl part
[09:21] <SourceContact> is it the version you are trying to install?
[09:22] <crackerbox> 7.16.2
[09:22] <SourceContact> when you did sudo make install, it was supposed to put libraries in /usr/lib you should check to see that the version of libcurl linked ...
[09:22] <SourceContact> ok
[09:22] <SourceContact> well, it looks like it worked then?
[09:22] <crackerbox> make install put them in /usr/local/lib
[09:23] <SourceContact> ahh.
[09:23] <SourceContact> there's a problem, possibly
[09:23] <crackerbox> so i copied over to /usr/lib
[09:23] <SourceContact> ok, then ldconfig'd
[09:23] <crackerbox> i dont know about ldconfig at that point
[09:24] <SourceContact> is it working?
[09:24] <crackerbox> curlftpfs still locks up when attempting to do certain things like open a PDF file on ftp server... so i dont think so
[09:25] <SourceContact> oh, too bad...
[09:25] <crackerbox> i'll let you get back to work.. im going to try some things
[09:25] <SourceContact> thanks, good luck
[09:26] <crackerbox> looks like im going to restore to a fresh install and try this again with the ldconfig command
[09:27] <crackerbox> i'll be back
[09:28] <gnomefreak> crackerbox: dont bother reinstalling gutsy to fix a curl issue
[09:28] <gnomefreak> oh well
[09:31] <mrsno> hes using feisty gnomefreak
[09:32] <gnomefreak> well he should of read the topic anyway
[09:32] <gnomefreak> either way feisty or gutsy or a curl issue its in topic :)
[09:32] <mrsno> indeed
[09:32] <mrsno> :)
[09:33] <mrsno> back to etqw for me, e3 has been very boring :-)
[09:34] <Nick_Hill> I sanyone else noticing some very strange Gnome behaviour in Gutsy - create new account, try to log in, logs straight back out, remove .gnome .gnome2 .gconf .gconfd and can't log into old account. Also, missing icons on Gnome Menu, Missing key repeats, close/minimise boxen in wrong place on menubar?
[09:37] <mrsno> Nick_Hill are those the steps to reproduce the problem? trying here on mine now
[09:39] <Nick_Hill> mrsno, I am trying on another system, but for my system, create new account, try to log in. Check if close/minimise in right place (really obvious)
[09:41] <mrsno> Nick_Hill i created a new user using the gui, clicked shutdown > logout > logged in as new user and everything seems fine
[09:41] <mrsno> let me run today's updates and try again
[09:43] <Nick_Hill> mrsno, I half suspect I had a bad package when I updated at some point. If most others are getting the probs I have right now, everyone would know. The prob has lasted a few days.
[09:46] <mrsno> which arch is this Nick_Hill ? 32/64
[09:46] <gnomefreak> ppc
[09:46] <gnomefreak> :)
[09:46] <mrsno> ;]
[09:46] <Nick_Hill> i386
[09:47] <mrsno> i did have strangeness with my i386 install but i think that was more down to virtualbox than gutsy, currenty have 64bit and it doesn't seem to be causing anything you describe yet
[09:54] <Nick_Hill> Other strangeness, on my system, ctrl+at+f1..6 consoles are not switching. Keyboard not repeating unless specifically set.
[10:24] <cables> Does Nautilus burner use BurnProof by default now? It would really suck if it still didn't.
[10:26] <gnomefreak> not yet unless it was in last batch of uploads today
[10:26] <cables> gnomefreak, that's a bug that's been around for a while, it should really be fixed. It's just one gconf key that needs to be changed.
[10:27] <gnomefreak> cables: i havent checked but i will on next reboot
[10:27] <cables> gnomefreak, thank you
[10:27] <gnomefreak> yw
[10:32] <gnomefreak> cables: where did you find it in gconf
[10:32] <cables> gnomefreak, one sec
[10:33] <cables> gnomefreak, /apps/nautilus-cd-burner/burnproof
[10:33] <gnomefreak> i dont have a burnproof :(
[10:33] <gnomefreak> duh
[10:34] <gnomefreak> there it is
[10:34] <gnomefreak> no as of 2 hours ago it hasnt been set
[10:34] <cables> damn
[10:34] <gnomefreak> ill restart in a minute
[10:34] <gnomefreak> brb ill let you know
[10:34] <cables> So basically everyone will be making coasters right and left unless they either check off that box or install gnomebaker or something.
[10:44] <pwnguin> so gobuntu's official now
[10:44] <pwnguin> i guess some progress has been had ;)
[10:44] <cables> What the hell, the burnproof bug has been around since Breezy and it hasn't been fixed in gutsy.
[10:44] <cables> Seriously, something NEEDS to be done about it
[10:45] <cables> It's just ONE default gconf key that needs to be changed
[10:45] <pwnguin> bug number?
[10:45] <cables> bug 18298
[10:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 18298 in nautilus-cd-burner "burnproof should be enabled by default" [Wishlist,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/18298
[10:45] <pwnguin> oh, heh.
[10:45] <cables> invalid?
[10:45] <cables> hmm
[10:45] <pwnguin> just use k3b ;)
[10:46] <cables> pwnguin, the problem is that the default burner is nautilus, and if it's creating coasters then that's bad.
[10:46] <pwnguin> though it would be nice if nautilus-cd-burner didnt suck
[10:46] <gnomefreak> cables: not default yet
[10:46] <cables> gnomefreak, yeah, and this problem has been known about since breezy. What gives?
[10:46] <pwnguin> this might explain why ive never been able to burn an iso with nautilus
[10:46] <cables> pwnguin, yep, it explains it
[10:47] <gnomefreak> cables: its known :( should be set in gutsy sometime
[10:47] <cables> pwnguin, if you want to fix it, you can change a gconf key.
[10:47] <cables> gnomefreak, well, it was known before dapper, edgy, and feisty, and it was never fixed in those
[10:47] <pwnguin> cables, do you disagree with the historical record on why?
[10:47] <cables> pwnguin, what's that?
[10:48] <gnomefreak> cables: #ubuntu-desktop would be best place to ask about that since the desktop team is in charge of it :)
[10:48] <cables> pwnguin, that burnproofed CDs are worse in quality?
[10:48] <pwnguin> they say it potentially makes discs that arent readable on some drives
[10:48] <cables> pwnguin, that's not true
[10:48] <cables> pwnguin, it doesn't change anything about the disc unless the drive is jolted.
[10:48] <cables> pwnguin, in which case WITHOUT burnproof the disc is made unusable, and WITH burnproof the disc is made usable in most players.
[10:48] <pwnguin> burn proof is the buffer underrun solution
[10:48] <pwnguin> no?
[10:48] <cables> yep
[10:49] <cables> buffer underrun, jolted system, stuff like that
[10:49] <gnomefreak> best to ask next week though
[10:49] <pwnguin> seems like a hard thing to line up correctly as far as tracks go
[10:49] <cables> pwnguin, it is, that's why we have burnproof, which is, for some reason, DISABLED in the default burner.
[10:49] <cables> I'll calm down now :)
[10:49] <pwnguin> i mean, you want a consistant spiral
[10:51] <cables> pwnguin, yep. What burnproof does is, if supported in the hardware, can resume burning if somehow it gets interrupted by a buffer underrun or the drive being jolted.
[10:51] <cables> (that sentence I just wrote sucked)
[10:51] <pwnguin> although my theory does fall prey to the "burn proof makes the situation better than nothing at all"
[10:51] <cables> pwnguin, what's your theory?
[10:51] <cables> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_underrun
[10:52] <pwnguin> cables: that burnproof is enabled when the burning is interrupted, and may misalign the track.
[10:52] <pwnguin> if thats all burnproof does
[10:52] <pimp31415> getting black window with fullscreen windows with the desktop effects and extra effects on
[10:53] <cables> pwnguin, well, if burnproof is off, you get a lot worse than a misaligned track.
[10:53] <pwnguin> then the choice is a sligthly off spec cd, or one that failed
[10:53] <cables> pwnguin, and, generally, modern hardware does a pretty good job of making a seamless transition if the burning is interrupted.
[10:53] <cables> pwnguin, yep
[10:53] <cables> pwnguin, and I think that's a pretty obvious choice.
[10:53] <pwnguin> heh
[10:54] <pwnguin> there is one (minor) counterpoint
[10:54] <pwnguin> not even md5 checking can detect this problem
[10:54] <pwnguin> without burnproof, success implies success on all fronts
[10:55] <pwnguin> with burnproof, you can't tell if it works until you try it; but i think this is such a minimal use case that a gconf variable setting might be favorable
[10:56] <cables> pwnguin, actually, I have NEVER made a coaster with burnproof.
[10:56] <cables> Without it, I have a 50% failure rate
[10:56] <pwnguin> have you tried burning at 1x?
[10:56] <drekko> lol :)
[10:57] <cables> pwnguin, that's a crappy solution. I choose using burnproof + burning at the maximum speed I have, since it's never failed for me.
[10:57] <pwnguin> cables: if you're underrunning the buffer, its evidence you need to go slower ;)
[10:57] <drekko> nah, just go with buffer... no coasters... :)
[10:58] <pwnguin> cables: look, dont feel to agitated about this, im just exploring the other side here a bit
[10:59] <drekko> well, formulated like this then: is there a good reason at all for *not* having burnproof activated?
[10:59] <cables> drekko, apparently burnproofed CDs don't work in a small percentage of players.
[11:00] <pwnguin> was "needs information" remapped to "invalid" in launchpad?
[11:00] <drekko> hm. wha'ts that percentage? 10%, or like 0.0000001%?
[11:00] <cables> However, since every burning app on every platform I've tried BESIDES nautilus has burnproof enabled by default, I think it's pretty safe to have that set by default.
[11:01] <cables> drekko, probably the latter, although my guess is that the only time a burnproofed cd would  be unreadable would be in the case that there WAS a buffer underrun, in which case if burnproof wasn't enabled, the disc would be a coaster. Otherwise, a burnproofed CD should be pretty much the same as a non-burnproofed CD
[11:01] <drekko> yep, would agree to that...
[11:02] <cables> Given the choice between a buffer underrun meaning an unplayable disc in ALL players and a buffer underrun meaning an unplayable disc in a few players, I'll choose the latter.
[11:02] <pwnguin> i think if you
[11:02] <MugginsM> depends what you're doing. if you know it's a coaster you burn a new one,
[11:03] <MugginsM> if it's a coaster for some people you don't know and they end up with a broken CD
[11:03] <pwnguin> i think if you're worried about a disc being unusable in a device, you'd settle to know that some adverse event happened
[11:03] <cables> MugginsM, the question is, if that's really a problem, how come everything besides Nautilus uses it by default?
[11:03] <cables> Are they all just crappy and use bad defaults?
[11:03] <cables> I think not.
[11:03] <MugginsM> yes
[11:04] <pwnguin> cables: because they all disagree with cdrecord on the defaults ;)
[11:04] <MugginsM> well, I don't know, I don't burn many CDs, but I'm quite used to all other software out there sucking :)
[11:04] <cables> EVERY new player works fine with burnproof, and most old ones do too.
[11:04] <MugginsM> so it's plausible that every other CD burner stinks
[11:04] <pwnguin> MugginsM: mostly, it's very old car players
[11:04] <MugginsM> probably not true, but plausible
[11:04] <pwnguin> MugginsM: that can't handle playback of burnproof discs
[11:05] <cables> Actually, without burnproof, I've gotten coasters without warning that an error occurred, so if it's not going to warn me, it's pointless not to use bp.
[11:05] <pwnguin> so it sounds like there's two bugs ;)
[11:06] <cables> pretty much
[11:06] <cables> Also, why the hell doesn't Nautilus allow the erasure of CD-RWs?
[11:08] <pwnguin> cables: since you sound dedicated to the task, why not grab an image of gobuntu (or whatever data you fancy burning) burn with nautilus and gather the debug output the ubnutu bug is asking for?
[11:08] <cables> pwnguin, I haven't read the bug report in detail, but I guess when I have time I'll do that
[11:09] <pwnguin> basically, upstream tried
[11:09] <pwnguin> and brok eit
[11:09] <pwnguin> broke it
[11:09] <pwnguin> they're waiting for someone to test it with debug output
[11:36] <corevette> what does the -s in "ln -s" do?
[11:39] <drekko> well, that tells ln to create a symbolic link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link
[11:40] <pwnguin> you know, im a bit dissapointed that ESR has switched to Ubuntu and we still havent seen any hilarious antics
[11:49] <drekko> how are new kernel updates implemented in gutsy?
[11:52] <FunnyLookinHat> Just like in Feisty   :)
[11:54] <drekko> heh .. well, since gutsy is in a little more of a dev phase than feisty, i thought there would be a little tendency of more frequent updates...
[11:56] <drekko> or rather, what's a reasonable timeframe of seeing recent updates at kernel.org being merged into gutsy?
[12:19] <pvandewyngaerde> drekko: this is my current one 2.6.22-7-generic #1 SMP Mon Jun 25 17:07:55 GMT 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[12:20] <drekko> pvandewyngaerde: yep, same as me, and a bit old it is... :)
[12:22] <drekko> the latest updates at kernel.org have a few r8169 updates i think i need. and i trust the kernel team a bit more than myself in getting kernel related stuff to work smoothly... ;)
[12:23] <pvandewyngaerde> 2.6.22 was only released some days ago
[12:24] <drekko> yeah, but there still is plenty of problems with realtek gigabit devices
[12:24] <drekko> realtek seems to have semipublished new drivers (not available at their web site) that appearantly have been merged into the latest snapshots
[12:25] <pvandewyngaerde> drekko: you are free to compile your own kernel
[12:25] <drekko> yeah, i know... rather not, though... ;)


[00:11] <JanCBorchardt> is there a tool to compare lines of code written fixing a bug to lines of comments written on its report?
[01:49] <Paddy_NI> I fear there may not be enough room on the top panel for ubuntu netbook 10.10
[01:49] <Paddy_NI> My screen resolution is 1024x640
[08:22] <ronoc> Cimi: you there ?
[08:30] <vish> ronoc: hey, i dint understand your comment : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/624610/comments/8 .. you are working on fixing it for Natty? and this menu-close is a temporary workaround?
[08:31] <vish> oh boo! i seem to have missed him ;p
[08:31]  * vish should really stop hiding join/part!
[08:40] <thorwil> heh, whenever i consider to hide joins/quits, i'm reminded of how useful those referring to people you want to talk with are
[09:40] <klattimer> kenvandine: I can't find any entry point in vino for empathy, can you point me in the right direction?
[09:41]  * klattimer 's eyes sore with code :/
[10:42] <ronoc> Cimi, ping
[10:44] <Cimi> ronoc: pong
[10:45] <ronoc> Cimi, remember what we talked about yesterday ?
[10:45] <ronoc> Cimi, gradient etc
[10:45] <Cimi> y
[10:45] <ronoc> Cimi, do you know of any example code of where this implemented
[10:45] <Cimi> it's in the engine
[10:46] <Cimi> but, why you might need that?
[10:46] <ronoc> Cimi, is it possible to do this the transport control
[10:46] <Cimi> no, too difficult
[10:46] <ronoc> Cimi, do you have time to take a look ?
[10:46] <Cimi> we can't fix it in that way
[10:47] <ronoc> Cimi, so what way should we fix it, sorry UI is not my strong point
[10:47] <ronoc> i just want to get it fixed
[10:49] <Cimi> it can't :)
[10:49] <Cimi> unfortunately, I've noticed that bug already a month ago
[10:50] <Cimi> but there's no proper fix if not making a transparent gtkdrawingarea
[10:50] <Cimi> but bratsche told us it's impossible
[10:59] <ronoc> Cimi, okay, so without the rgba we cannot fix this ?
[11:01] <ronoc> Cimi, Okay just commented on that bug and kicked it out to touch.
[11:03] <Cimi> ok :(
[12:14] <kenvandine> klattimer, you mean for the event?  look in vino-tube-server.c or vino-tube-servers-manager.c
[12:14] <klattimer> kenvandine: yeah
[12:14] <klattimer> I can't see why the name of the user isn't present
[12:15] <klattimer> the string is produced in a reasonable way
[12:17] <klattimer> the condition seems to be the only reason this would fail
[12:17] <klattimer> but even that shouldn't be broken
[12:17] <klattimer> :/
[12:19] <kenvandine> klattimer, indeed
[12:19] <klattimer> I'm perplexed to say the least
[12:19] <kenvandine> if you look at the status icon code, it doesn't look up the alias until much later
[12:19] <klattimer> it's going to take a lot more digging
[12:19] <kenvandine> it does it when you activate the icon
[12:19] <klattimer> hmm
[12:20] <klattimer> kenvandine: there seem to be a bunch of problems related to the timing
[12:20] <kenvandine> look at the SERVER_PROP in vino-tube-app-indicator.c
[12:20] <klattimer> everything is written to work with borken status icons
[12:20] <kenvandine> value is null when it gets the SERVER_PROP
[12:21] <klattimer> that's strange
[12:21] <klattimer> surely it should know what the server is, if it's connected to it
[12:21] <klattimer> *sigh* :/
[12:59] <JanCBorchardt> andreasn, thorwil, wers, godbyk: off to #ubuntu-meeting this time ;)
[12:59] <thorwil> JanCBorchardt: sure, but where's his mpt'ness?
[13:00] <JanCBorchardt> thorwil, I was wondering as well
[13:02] <godbyk> JanCBorchardt: If my Internet connection holds up.
[13:02] <thorwil> mpt: hi! we just started missing you ;)
[13:02] <thorwil> heh
[13:03] <JanCBorchardt> :D
[13:03] <godbyk> I may be off and on -- my Internet connection is wonky this morning. :-(
[13:05] <JanCBorchardt> mat_t, are you coming to the meeting?
[13:40] <mat_t> JanCBorchardt: hi, unfortunately swamped with other work atm :(
[13:46] <JanCBorchardt> mat_t, ok, no problem. Can you poke mpt by any chance?
[14:45] <bratsche> Cimi: If the widget doesn't draw a background on itself at all, will that fix it?  Or will it just be white space then?
[14:45] <Cimi> bratsche: I don't know, we should try
[14:46] <bratsche> Cimi: RGBA won't fix it though, that's for sure.  RGBA is composited by the compositor, not by gtk+.  So if you tried to make the widget transparent then you'd just see the desktop under it, not the widget under it.
[14:47] <Cimi> yes
[16:03] <kklimonda> bah, am I the only one tired of hearing that Ubuntu doesn't contribute enough?
[16:04] <klattimer> kklimonda: nope
[16:04] <kklimonda> tedg: what is the status of inclusion of indicators in gtk+? have you guys tried pushing it further after first rejection? How is the whole spec going in fd.o? Any chance to get it approved as a standard?
[16:04] <klattimer> kklimonda: I upstreamed patches over a week ago
[16:04] <klattimer> and can't see a response to them
[16:05] <tedg> kklimonda, Unfortunately the GNOME folks seem to not want to accept anything that isn't "Shell focused" and Shell hasn't decided what they want to do yet. :(
[16:06] <kklimonda> klattimer: heh, just upstreaming patches to glib/gtk+ doesn't seem enough - you have to poke them on the ML.. I think the gio patch required by unity and zeig.. still hasn't been commented on :/
[16:06] <tedg> kklimonda, The FD.o thing is held up because the KDE guys don't want to push it unless someone from GNOME agrees.  And since there isn't anyone formally in charge of that in GNOME we don't have anyone to lobby.
[16:06] <kklimonda> tedg: argh..
[16:06] <tedg> kklimonda, I thought about just writing the XDG list with my @gnome.org mail address ;)
[16:07] <klattimer> tedg: that sounds a great move tbh
[16:07] <klattimer> put it bluntly that it's an implementation for both kde and gnome and the dbus api is fairly sweet
[16:07] <tedg> klattimer, Heh, yeah.  Unfortunately I think I'm too well known. :)
[16:07] <klattimer> the spec probably still needs some discussion, but for the most part it's a massive improvement
[16:08] <klattimer> for crying out loud I can SLIDE between my notification icons!!!!!!!
[16:08] <kklimonda> yeah, that's the killer feature in my opinion
[16:08] <kklimonda> it looks great
[16:08] <klattimer> kklimonda: it's ONE killer feature
[16:08] <klattimer> there's lots of cool stuff in there
[16:08] <tedg> klattimer, Yeah, there's some movement there.  Hopefully, we can get some discussion going at GNOME Boston Summit... we'll see though.
[16:09] <klattimer> but what _is_ kinda missing is the ability to put arbitrary items there, and mangle with the graphics a little more
[16:09] <klattimer> e.g. tomboy pins
[16:09] <tedg> For one, I know the indicators all work in Clutter -- the Unity integration could easily be stolen :)
[16:09] <klattimer> and also doing non-standard icony things
[16:09] <kklimonda> klattimer: sure, but this one should convince everyone that indicators are superior..
[16:09] <klattimer> e.g. rendering icons as a bunch of layers
[16:09] <tedg> klattimer, Yeah, and the problem there is theming.  So we hope that the GTK symbolic icons will solve some of that.
[16:09] <tedg> klattimer, Not all of course, but some.
[16:10] <klattimer> tedg: I see symbolic icons solving about 80% but that 20% is still a little annoying
[16:10] <kklimonda> but leaving jokes aside - how do indicators work when you use remote X? Do they show up as expected? I remember this question from the discussion back then when you tried upstreaming it for the first time.
[16:10] <klattimer> for instance, symbolic icons which could reference other svgs
[16:10] <tedg> klattimer, I think that jcastro is trying to organize a discussion at UDS/Boston Summit -- you should ping him with your list if ideas.
[16:10] <tedg> kklimonda, For all practical purposes they don't work when you remote X :-/
[16:10] <klattimer> e.g. the mail icon, references an SVG file which has a property of <number> then what you get is a small overlay of an icon with the number in it, positioned well and appropriately
[16:11] <tedg> klattimer, I'm curious if we couldn't take an SVG over the bus that was symoblic.  It fixes the theming issues.
[16:11] <tedg> klattimer, Either that or make an library API that makes it easy to "build a temp icon theme"
[16:12] <tedg> klattimer, So then you'd have a disk area to play with.  And advanced users could do advanced things, but we could make some common things easy.
[16:12] <klattimer> tedg: really there's a lot of librsvg work to be done
[16:13] <klattimer> external CSS and xref SVG's would solve most of the problems
[16:13] <kklimonda> tedg: so this is going to be one point people cry about in every discussion - it would be great to prepare some good counterargument other than "meh, who does that anyway?".. I guess pushing dbus over the network would be stupid, have either you or KDE guys thought about it?
[16:14] <tedg> klattimer, Yeah, actually the symbolic icon guys (I think hadess, but I don't remember off hand) pushed a lot of those things into rsvg.  One of the problems is that Inkscape doesn't support drawing with them easily :(
[16:15] <tedg> kklimonda, Yeah, it's the same problem with appmenu.  It's one of those things that I think everyone would love a solution, but no one is willing to invest the time to build one.
[16:16] <tedg> kklimonda, It's hard to justify as it really has become a corner case.  Even "dumb terminals" have pretty fast processors in them.
[16:19] <Paddy_NI> Have I heard right, that there is a tomboy notes app indicator?
[16:19] <kklimonda> yeah, I actually agree but there are still quite a lot of people using some old terminals for things like LTSP.. things are going to get ugly again when you start pushing it :)
[16:21] <kklimonda> on the other hand one could always implement indicators the way that they fall back to xembed (it's what notifications currently use) when they are launched over the network..
[16:22] <tedg> kklimonda, They do fallback to xembed with the notification area... but, we want to drop that long term.
[16:22] <tedg> Paddy_NI, yes
[16:22] <Paddy_NI> tedg, is it currently only for maverick?
[16:22] <Paddy_NI> Or should I use the core ppa
[16:22] <Paddy_NI> lucid here
[16:23] <tedg> Paddy_NI, Mostly, I had an old patch.  But I wouldn't trust it anymore.
[16:23] <Paddy_NI> ah sure thanks for the info.. I guess I can wait for maverick netbook
[16:24] <Paddy_NI> I need to get myself one of those MiFi devices
[16:24] <Paddy_NI> mobile broadband here so one computer online at a time
[16:25] <kklimonda> tedg: I know they do.. so actually it should just work[tm], right? The remote application won't find indicator-applet, will fallback to xembed and send it over network as it does today.
[16:25] <Paddy_NI> oh yeah I just gotta say this, love the work you guys do absolutely great :D
[16:26] <tedg> kklimonda, Correct, it should "Just work" :)
[16:28] <kklimonda> tedg: so it's not that big deal - lets just say that "the long term" when you believe xembed should be removed is not 1-2 years but 4-5. After all what's really important is to get the code accepted by upstream and start further work on the specification. Maybe broader community will have a better idea how to push indicators over network (which we can steal for appmenu ;) )
[17:52] <pavolzetor> #include "libindicate-gtk/indicator.h"
[17:52] <pavolzetor> hallo, do I have to use it, if I wanna add icon?
[17:56] <pavolzetor> no one?
[18:44] <lucidfox> Does notify-osd ignore custom timeout values?
[18:49] <kklimonda> lucidfox: afair yet
[18:49] <kklimonda> yes
[18:50] <kklimonda> lucidfox: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/390508