[19:27] <mup> Bug #1965172 opened: [3.1] Setting interface into unconfigured does not reset auto-assign IP mode <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1965172>
[19:30] <mup> Bug #1965172 changed: [3.1] Setting interface into unconfigured does not reset auto-assign IP mode <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1965172>
[19:33] <mup> Bug #1965172 opened: [3.1] Setting interface into unconfigured does not reset auto-assign IP mode <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1965172>
[20:36] <mup> Bug #1964087 changed: MAAS deployment to raspberry pi fails for release candidate 22.04 <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1964087>


[06:46] <dholbach> good morning
[06:56] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: well our next steps now will be to release a opt in package of it in the SDK ppa
[06:56] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: and then we'll see whats required next
[06:56] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: ah hey
[06:56] <akiva-thinkpad> bout to head out
[06:56] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: how do you want to do the opt in?
[06:57] <akiva-thinkpad> Just have it in the "About Plugins", but disabled by default?
[06:57] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: but i'm afraid if you want to upstream it very soon you would need to do that yourself since we have no timeslot for that atm. Before we can start to upstream our stuff we first wold need the ui toolkit to be upstreamed and then move on from there. But I do not see that we will have enought time soon
[06:58] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: no , let people apt-get install qtcreator-plugin-autopilot if they want it.
[06:58] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: that's fine. This isn't exactly a priority.
[06:58] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: we will not depend on it for now
[06:59] <zbenjamin> when we are sure its finished and tested enough then it will become a part of the ubuntu sdk
[06:59] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: I wouldn't mind working on a different project for the next bit. Anything you need help with?
[06:59] <akiva-thinkpad> you* as in the team working on the touch in general.
[07:00] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: oh we have loads of work :D, just check out the bugtracker on a project you are interested in and start hacking.
[07:00] <akiva-thinkpad> heh sure~
[07:02] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: anyways before I depart; I pushed another update that fixed a segfault, and resized the window to fit the background. Before I hop to a different project, what do you need done on the autopilot plugin? I just want to make sure I leave it in a nice state.
[07:02] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: did you create a new MR for that?
[07:02] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: I think so.
[07:03] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: yes, sent to the ubuntu sdk team
[07:03] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: cool, i'll check it out, you can always work on some of your steps you listed that you wanted to fix. I did not have time yet to figure out more
[07:03] <akiva-thinkpad> okay sure; as long as nothing stands out.
[07:04] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: Am I vetted enough to be able to be on the sdk team yet?
[07:04] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: that is a question for bzoltan_, not sure if you can be without actually working for us
[07:05] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: fair enough!
[07:06] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: but even if you are not, its the same work flow, branch , hack hack hack, make merge request, get it approved. After that it makes no difference on who merges ;)
[07:06] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: what you can always do is to write tests for your stuff
[07:07] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: well the main thing is that I can't update the synopsis on the project page, which is now out of date due to new merges.
[07:07] <zbenjamin> tell me what to change
[07:07] <akiva-thinkpad> and I guess one final thing; as a developer, is there anything you think I need to work on? I really like the feedback.
[07:07] <akiva-thinkpad> sec
[07:08] <akiva-thinkpad> × Update of test suite on request (Low Priority) -- you can do that now.
[07:08] <akiva-thinkpad> and you should remove    × Get a Device, because I don't actually have one. (Medium Priority) -- as that refers to me
[07:08] <akiva-thinkpad> I still don't have one :(
[07:09] <zbenjamin> :(
[07:10] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: well, as a developer if you want to work with C++, boost your knowledge about pointers. That was the main problem because it had lots of leaking stuff in the beginning
[07:10] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: did you do java before?
[07:11] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: yeah I was under the impression that a lot of the pointers auto-deleted. I also need to make a better habit of checking for null pointers
[07:11] <akiva-thinkpad> thanks
[07:11] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: so, read about QObject parentships
[07:11] <akiva-thinkpad> zbenjamin: Will do!
[07:12] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: they are deleted automatically if their parent is deleted. But you need to specify the parent of course ;)
[07:12] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: so generally if you "new" something take extra care that either YOU delete it, or something takes ownership of the pointer
[07:12] <akiva-thinkpad> yeah, and there is that attribute you can also set, that I didn't know about that will delete if you close the window.
[07:13] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: yes for Widgets
[07:13] <akiva-thinkpad> Good stuff.
[07:13] <zbenjamin> then reading the Qt code if you have a problem with it teaches you a good deal of how to write code
[07:14] <akiva-thinkpad> Anyways I won't keep you any longer. Oh you should also remove this:    ✓ HUD/menu integration (left alt in unity7)
[07:14] <zbenjamin> thats how i started years ago ;), but i did know how to write C and C++
[07:15] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: done , thanks for putting your time into that
[07:15] <akiva-thinkpad> all great stuff. Thanks so much for the guidance and reviewing my code. I learned a ton
[07:15] <zbenjamin> yw
[07:15] <akiva-thinkpad> np!
[07:15] <zbenjamin> so when you are interested in something different don't be afraid to ping the code maintainer, or ask balloons he can point you to the right people
[07:17] <akiva-thinkpad> Cool. Later on I may ask you and some of the other devs I have worked with to sit as a reference on a job application. Is that alright presuming it isn't burdensome?
[07:19] <akiva-thinkpad> It helps if I can show that sort of experience to other potential employers.
[07:21] <zbenjamin> akiva-thinkpad: sure
[07:21] <akiva-thinkpad> Great stuff! Thanks; it is extremely appreciated.
[07:23] <akiva-thinkpad> Okay I gtg.
[07:23] <akiva-thinkpad> cheers
[07:45] <mivoligo> mzanetti: hi, what was the option to run MvsM in dev mode?
[09:04] <mcphail> Does anyone know whether qmlscene si going to be the long-term solution to launching qml apps? It is not a production-ready piece of software (and explicitly admits that), and is very slow.
[09:06] <mcphail> "The qmlscene utility is meant to be used for testing your QML applications, and not as a launcher in a production environment." from http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtquick-qmlscene.html
[09:08] <ogra_> i heard it will be dropped soon in favour of an actual launcher
[09:09] <ogra_> me thinks he remembers mzanetti saying something like that
[09:09] <mcphail> ogra_: that's great news. Think it will bring a huge leap forward in the usability of the phone
[09:09] <ogra_> if qmlscene gets renamed ?
[09:10] <mcphail> ogra_: if qmlscence gets nuked from orbit
[09:10] <ogra_> i dont see what would change in the usability due to that :)
[09:10] <ogra_> it will just get a new name and likely function a little bit different
[09:10] <mcphail> ogra_: that would be a disaster. Loading times for simple apps are too long
[09:11] <mcphail> ogra_: apps without qmlscene are faster
[09:16] <mzanetti> mcphail, it's really not the qmlscene binary that's slow, but the creation of the QQuickView and then the building of the QML object tree
[09:16] <mcphail> mzanetti: is there work going on to profile that?
[09:17] <mzanetti> not that I'm aware of
[09:17] <mcphail> mzanetti: reason I'm asking is because some of the MX4 users have expressed disappointment that app loading is still slow despite much better hardware
[09:18] <mcphail> mzanetti: so it seems crazy to rely on a launcher which admits it is not fit for purpose
[09:20] <mcphail> personally, I cringe when someone asks to see my phone and it takes 5 seconds for the dialler app to open
[09:21] <mzanetti> mcphail, fwiw, the dialer app doesn't use qmlscene
[09:21] <mcphail> mzanetti: aah - what is the delay there then?
[09:22] <mzanetti> mcphail, it's really not the qmlscene binary that's slow, but the creation of the QQuickView and then the building of the QML object tree
[09:22] <mcphail> ha!
[09:23] <mcphail> mzanetti: so, is the dialler a "normal" Qt app with a qml frontend?
[09:23] <mzanetti> yes
[09:23] <mcphail> mzanetti: so my frustration should be expressed upstream to the Qt people?
[09:23] <mzanetti> maybe
[09:23] <mzanetti> not sure how much that helps... but yeah, it's not ubuntu that's adding the slowness
[09:24] <mcphail> That is enlightening. Thanks for correcting my misperceptions
[09:24] <mzanetti> it's hard... I mean... maybe the dialer app could be optimized a bit still
[09:25] <mzanetti> then in theory one could preload a QQuickView and hand it over (like MeeGo did), but our security team thinks that's too risky
[09:25] <mzanetti> then there are ongoing threats on the qt devel mailing list about speeding up creation of some things
[09:25] <mcphail> mzanetti: that was going to be my next question :(
[09:25] <DanChapman> is the qml compiler still tied to qt version? That would help a *bit* if that's no longer a restriction
[09:26]  * DanChapman googles
[09:26] <mzanetti> we have the qml compiler in use afaik, well a self made one afaict
[09:26] <mzanetti> that did improve things by a second or so
[09:27] <ogra_> mcphail, if an app starts slow on the MX but fast on the other phones, it is surely not qmlscene at fault ;)
[09:27] <mcphail> ogra_: app don't start quickly on the bq
[09:27] <ogra_> the hardware and driver side of the MX4 simply still needs a lot of love
[09:28] <mzanetti> I'd be happy if I'd be able to flash that thing :D
[09:28] <greyback> mzanetti: we use qml caching - not the same as compiling. But caching does improve startup perf
[09:28] <ogra_> (if you have the ability to use both phones side by side you would actually agree ;) )
[09:28] <mcphail> ogra_: :)
[09:28] <ogra_> mzanetti, OTA works fine, you only need to get over the hump once ;)
[09:29] <mzanetti> ogra_, what do you think I'm doing here?
[09:29] <ogra_> lol
[09:29] <ogra_> get a USB 1.1 HUB ;)
[09:29] <ogra_> (definitely helps if you slow down the USB speed)
[09:30] <mzanetti> hmm.. interesting. maybe I could flash it from an RPI
[09:30] <ogra_> lol, i never tried that
[09:30] <mcphail> I've got a Baldur's Gate install which is a 137MB package, opening 2GB of data from the SD card. It opens instantly when I click the icon. But a QML app I've written of  a few dozen lines of code takes 4--5 seconds to open. Something is badly wrong there
[09:30] <ogra_> not sure we even have a ubuntu-device-flash binary for armhf
[09:31] <mzanetti> mcphail, and you think thsoe 2GB of data are loaded at startup?
[09:31] <mcphail> mzanetti: no, but most of the 137MB is
[09:31] <mzanetti> not sure about that
[09:31] <mcphail> mzanetti: I compiled the package...
[09:31] <popey> The other C++ apps also start instantly.
[09:32] <mzanetti> well... again... it's loading the QQuickView and building the object tree. It's a bit like opening a browser and loading a (local) website
[09:40] <mivoligo> mzanetti: what was the command to run MvsM in developer mode? I have to fix that level 23 ;) It's harder on easy than on hard
[09:40] <mzanetti> -d
[09:40] <mzanetti> lol
[09:40] <mzanetti> how did you manage to do that?
[09:41] <mivoligo> I think is because the enemies on hard synchronize better to tower shots on that level
[09:44] <mivoligo> mzanetti: what should be before "-d"? :P I really don't remember
[09:45] <mzanetti> qmlscene -I path/to/builddir/backend/ path/to/machines-vs-machines.qml -d
[09:45] <mivoligo> thanks!
[09:46] <mivoligo> normally I just start from SDK
[09:46] <mzanetti> mivoligo, you can add the -d to the sdk
[09:46] <mzanetti> in project -> run settings -> additional arguments
[09:46] <mivoligo> mzanetti: great, that's useful :)
[15:33] <mzanetti> popey, rpadovani, joining?
[15:33] <popey> omw
[20:34] <nik90> bzoltan_: ping
[20:34] <nik90> bzoltan_: (leaving messages for you to read when you come online)
[20:35] <nik90> bzoltan_: Is there anything holding up https://code.launchpad.net/~zsombi/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/alarmmodel-segfault/+merge/262074 ?
[20:35] <nik90> bzoltan_: zsombi_ told me we could get it into OTA-5. Is that still the plan?


 Can I know the reason of this policy ?
[14:33] <k1l_> to have a calm enviroment to solve issue from the more busy ubuntu channels. we dont try to hide something since the channel is logged. you can keep track there, as i mentioned before.
[14:33] <k1l_> MasterPiece: is there you reason you need to stay in here besides seeing the logs?
[14:34] <MasterPiece> k1l_, I wanna test myself that, Can I join it a long time in order to be an OP or no
[14:35] <MasterPiece> ok, I'll be leave here! Thanks for your restful behaviors :)
[14:36] <MasterPiece> I'll leave here in 4 minutes :) ( I'll listen to any advice to me in this time to be an OP or no )
[15:56] <k1l_> !guidelines > HollyCowOS
[18:09] <Pici> 13:09:43 <?MonkeyDust> Mralexxx  wubi means "will ultimatley be inefficient"
[18:12] <rww> better than some things I've called it in #ubuntu
[18:12] <rww> "terrible" being one of them
[20:10] <daftykins> heya, i think ubottu's !ati factoid is antiquated since they haven't been called that for a long time. it also points to the generic binary how to.
[20:10] <daftykins> suggested replacement: !amd is: For AMD video cards (the new name for ATI), see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/AMD
[20:12] <ikonia> !ati
[20:12] <ikonia> is it that link you don't like or the wording pointing at that link ?
[20:13] <daftykins> say a user comes in #ubuntu with AMD graphics trouble
[20:13] <daftykins> pointing them to ATI references will add to that confusion :)
[20:13] <ikonia> so is there a problem with the link, or just the wording ?
[20:13] <ikonia> which link actually provides a better technical solution ?
[20:14] <daftykins> i don't think you've looked at the links
[20:14] <ikonia> no I've not
[20:14] <ikonia> thats why I'm asking you which one provides a better technical solution
[20:14] <daftykins> ati points to the generic page
[20:14] <daftykins> ah well you must not have read my statement in much detail then
[20:14] <ikonia> errr I did
[20:15] <ikonia> I'm just asking you which of the links actually proivdes a better technical solution for th euser
[20:15] <ikonia> I assume you've read both links, so i'm just asking you which is the better actual technical solution
[20:15] <daftykins> the factoid !ati makes you pick the actual page from the generic page
[20:15] <daftykins> it's not a solution at all
[20:15] <ikonia> yes it is
[20:15] <ikonia> it points you at the page and you select which one is for you
[20:16] <daftykins> furthermore... i'm pointing out the deprecation of referring to AMD cards by an ATI factoid
[20:16] <ikonia> yes, I can see the value in adding an alias to ati/amd
[20:16] <ikonia> so they both work
[20:16] <daftykins> so the existing !ati can stay, but it'd be nice if AMD existed
[20:17] <daftykins> actually, that entire !ati link seems deprecated
[20:18] <ikonia> I'll review both the links after I've eaten
[20:18] <daftykins> roger that
[23:39] <HFSPLUS> !ops
[23:39] <HFSPLUS> noooo waaaaa


[06:03] <dholbach> good morning
[06:09] <nigelb> Morning dholbach!
[06:10] <nigelb> I'm in <3 with Ubuntu Mono today :-)
[06:16] <dholbach> hi nigelb
[06:16] <dholbach> I like it too :)
[06:26] <jussi> hrr, still no answer from james_w...
[06:29] <nigelb> jussi: I think he's away this week.
[06:29] <jussi> oh :)
[06:29] <jussi> well I suppose thats ok then :P
[06:53] <dholbach> Pendulum, happy birthday! :)
[07:03] <nigelb> ooh
[07:03] <nigelb> HAPPY BIRTHDAY Pendulum :)
[07:25]  * jussi sings happy birthday to Pendulum
[07:57] <kim0> Morning
[07:57] <kim0> Pendulum: Happy bday :)
[07:57] <dholbach> kim0, صباح الخير!
[07:58] <kim0> dholbach: hehe saba7 el noor :)
[08:00] <dholbach> kim0, كيف حالك، أخي؟
[08:00] <kim0> man you're good :)
[08:00] <nigelb> Arabic looks good on the new font!
[08:00] <dholbach> kim0, it's still the 5 words you told me - I need more vocabulary
[08:01] <dholbach> so, how are you doing? :)
[08:02] <kim0> Going good, how about you
[08:02] <kim0> do I need to reboot to get ubuntu-mono in my terminal
[08:03] <dholbach> you might have to tell the terminal to make use of it
[08:03] <dholbach> in the profile settings
[08:04] <kim0> hmm, it uses "system default"
[08:04] <kim0> wonder where that is config'ed
[08:05] <dpm> there used to be a general fonts configuration dialog
[08:05] <dholbach> I have no idea where to do that - probably just using dconf-editor or some such
[08:05] <dpm> I'm not sure where that's gone now we're using gnome-control-center
[08:05] <dholbach> it was in gnome-appearance-properties
[08:05] <dholbach> but that's gone for good AFAIK
[08:06] <dholbach> dconf-editor → org.gnome.desktop.interface → monospace-font-name ?
[08:07] <dpm> speaking of gone features, does anyone know where to set the user picture?
[08:09] <dholbach> dpm, if you don't look like http://cdn4.iconfinder.com/data/icons/gnome-desktop-icons-png/PNG/64/Gnome-Stock-Person-64.png that's not our desktop's problem! :-P
[08:09] <dpm> dholbach, that one lacks a beard ;)
[08:10] <nigelb> lol
[08:10] <dholbach> we got rid of the beard person AGES ago
[08:10] <nigelb> dpm: More specifically, it lacks a neck beard :P
[08:10] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme/+bug/24177
[08:10] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 24177 in gnome-icon-theme "Default user account icon shouldn't be bearded man" [Medium,Fix released]
[08:11] <dpm> yeah, I remember that one :)
[08:15] <nigelb> what the...
[08:28] <kim0> gnome-tweak-tool
[08:28] <kim0> does the font thing
[08:29]  * kim0 reboots
[09:02] <dholbach> jcastro, if you want to have a dev session at UOW let me know
[09:02] <dholbach> dibs on one or two early slots
[09:10] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:10] <czajkowski> dholbach: got a min for a pm please?
[09:18] <dholbach> sure
[09:19] <dholbach> czajkowski, ^
[10:09] <dholbach> alright my friends - I call it a day earlier today, so the 750km on the highway are more managable today
[10:09] <dholbach> have a great weekend!
[10:11] <czajkowski> dholbach: bye
[10:13] <dholbach> bye :)
[10:35] <Pendulum> kim0: nigelb: thanks!
[10:42] <Pendulum> jussi: thanks!
[12:28] <akgraner> anyone having issues getting to the Fridge or rather can someone go to fridge.ubuntu.com and see what you get  - please and thank you
[12:29] <akgraner> hmm I guess it is just slow..
[12:30] <cjohnston> akgraner: i got a 504
[12:31] <akgraner> thanks
[12:31] <Pendulum> akgraner: It loads for me, just takes ages to do so
[12:31] <AlanBell> eventually loaded here
[12:32] <akgraner> ok - having it looked into
[12:32] <akgraner> thanks y'all
[12:32] <akgraner> :-)
[12:36] <akgraner> dpm,  what's the # for ubuntu developers now you want people to use?
[12:37] <dpm> hey akgraner, #ubuntuappdev - it's on http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/ for reference
[12:38]  * akgraner updates my lovely post-it note wall of important stuff to remember :-)
[12:38] <akgraner> thanks!
[12:44] <akgraner> hmm what does it mean when you get "DB Error - no database selected" when trying to post to identi.ca from Qwibber - I didn't get that yesterday  (I just updated so updates to my natty machine this morning - hmmm)
[12:44] <akgraner> s/so/some
[12:55] <akgraner> ok so IS says it's not on their part can some see if you can get to the fridge again b/c I know it's not just me \
[12:59] <akgraner> hey did you all know about this site? http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/fridge.ubuntu.com
[12:59] <akgraner> I just found out about it so I thought I would share
[13:05] <czajkowski> yeah tis kinda handy alright
[13:12] <akgraner> more to add to my post it notes :-)
[13:12] <czajkowski> :)
[13:13] <akgraner> It will be my new wallpaper soon
[13:35] <czajkowski> http://www.bcs.org/content/ConWebDoc/41634 heading there this year for ada lovelace day
[14:51]  * mhall119 hopes akgraner is using Tomboy instead of physical post-its
[14:54] <jcastro> AlanBell: robbie ended up fixing the logos yesterday before I got to it
[14:54] <jcastro> but, virtual high five anyway!
[14:55] <AlanBell> ^5
[14:56]  * AlanBell is off for a curry
[14:59] <Pendulum> AlanBell: have a good curry :)
[15:20] <jcastro> man
[15:20] <jcastro> awesome
[15:20] <jcastro> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
[15:20] <jcastro> has anyone seen this?
[15:22] <nigelb> jcastro: ZOMG
[15:35] <akgraner> jcastro, nice!
[15:35] <akgraner> mhall119, I use both :-)
[15:40] <czajkowski> jbut oneieic is out in 13 days no ?
[15:42] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I wondered about that as well
[15:47] <czajkowski> jcastro: ^^
[15:47]  * popey cranks the rumour mill to 11
[15:47] <popey> what if it's not the release
[15:47] <popey> what if it's a computer running ubuntu
[15:47] <popey> 'a whole new computer'
[15:51] <akgraner> What happens on the 11th?
[15:51] <akgraner> or 10th besides Columbus Day?
[15:51] <akgraner> anyone join the IRC channel yet
[15:53] <akgraner> popey, and nigelb are there..:-)
[15:53] <nigelb> :D
[15:53] <cjohnston> the 12th is columbus day
[15:54] <akgraner> cjohnston, celebrated on the 10th this year
[15:54] <akgraner> well observed
[15:55] <cjohnston> akgraner: i know.. my birthday is the 12th.. thats why i say something
[15:55] <akgraner> hehe
[15:55] <akgraner> Happy Early b-day!
[15:56] <nigelb> cjohnston: Happy Birthday old man :P
[15:56]  * nigelb runs. Fast.
[15:57] <cjohnston> dont worry nigelb.. youll get yours
[15:57] <nigelb> heh
[16:28] <jcastro> mhall119: can I play with the slots?
[16:28] <nigelb> I read that as "Can I play with fire and explosives?"
[16:29] <cjohnston> jcastro: why wouldnt you be able to
[16:29] <jcastro> because last time I did that the entire thing crashed
[16:29] <nigelb> Yes, see my comment.
[16:30] <cjohnston> well.. when you play, thats always an option
[16:31] <jcastro> I'm not playing
[16:31] <nigelb> heh
[16:31] <jcastro> I have to put these retarded slots in there because Scott made a decision 56 years ago.
[16:31] <jcastro> and now I can't even yell at him. :(
[16:31] <jcastro> ok I'm going in there, if it breaks, don't say I didn't warn you!
[16:31] <cjohnston> what slots?
[16:32] <nigelb> jcastro: Now you *call* yell at him without losing your job :P
[16:32] <jcastro> the plenary slots
[16:32] <nigelb> *can*
[16:32] <cjohnston> ahh
[16:32] <cjohnston> what can be done to make it better?
[16:35] <jcastro> like in gcal
[16:35] <jcastro> how you can just extend meetings to be long or short
[16:35] <jcastro> and remove the whole concept of slots
[16:35] <nigelb> Ah. Wishlist for next cycle. We'll try.
[16:36] <jcastro> just genning the slots automatically will be enough
[16:37] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/summit/+bug/855586
[16:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 855586 in summit "init-slots makes plenaries too long" [Low,Triaged]
[16:50] <jcastro> nigelb: mhall119 or cjohnston: any idea why the slots on wednesday aren't showing up?
[16:50] <jcastro> they're in the system, I added them like the other ones
[16:50] <jcastro> but they don't display for some reason when you go to Wednesday
[16:52]  * nigelb ooks
[16:52] <nigelb> *looks
[16:52] <nigelb> jcastro: I seee them
[16:52] <nigelb> looks like you put normal lots instead of plenary though
[16:53] <jcastro> it's plenary in the admin
[16:53] <jcastro> let me check again
[16:53] <cjohnston> im thinking something with that last room
[16:53] <jcastro> oh dude
[16:53] <cjohnston> boca vi
[16:54] <jcastro> 2 if the slots are normal
[16:54] <jcastro> and cover the plenary slots
[16:54] <jcastro> let me try this
[16:54] <nigelb> haha
[16:55] <jcastro> hey alright
[16:55] <jcastro> DONE!
[16:55] <jcastro> and I didn't even crash summit
[16:55]  * jcastro eats on yummy crow
[16:55] <cjohnston> what did you do jcastro
[16:55] <jcastro> created plenary slots without crashing summit
[16:55] <jcastro> it's like, a first.
[16:56] <cjohnston> i was referring to how
[16:56] <cjohnston> see.. summit much more betterrer
[17:00] <jcastro> hey so what's ""plenary talk" vs. "plenary"
[17:00] <cjohnston> uhh
[17:14] <kim0> jcastro: is there a list of plenaries somewhere
[17:14] <jcastro> yes
[17:14] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-P?
[17:15] <jcastro> I am scheduling them today
[17:15] <jcastro> and we don't have enough room, so if you're thinking of one, do a lightning talk instead
[17:17] <mhall119> jcastro: you sorted?
[17:17] <jcastro> I am all set, thanks
[17:53] <jcastro> jono: oh also the guidebook is set
[17:53] <jcastro> they have all the sponsors and crap and the maps and stuff in there
[17:54] <nigelb> jcastro: YOU ARE AWESOME
[17:54] <nigelb> :)
[18:06] <jcastro> mhall119: is something bad happening? summit just started grinding
[18:07] <jcastro> huh weird
[18:07] <jcastro> now it's normal again
[18:09] <mhall119> jcastro: not that I know of, but cranberry is still questionably stable in my book
[18:09] <jcastro> k
[18:09] <jcastro> so hey has anyone thought about this room thing?
[18:09] <jcastro> with the thing being too wide?
[18:09] <jcastro> james_w: around?
[18:10] <mhall119> ah damn, we're getting memory errors again
[18:10] <mhall119> jcastro: I told you to buy bigger screens
[18:11] <nigelb> mhall119: cranberry playing bad again?
[18:11] <nigelb> did you notice tomorrow is 1st?
[18:11] <jcastro> ok so this is going to be a real problem then?
[18:12] <nigelb> Yes, can you escalate higher?
[18:12] <nigelb> or get us a large ec2
[18:12] <jcastro> no I mean the screens
[18:12] <nigelb> ah, yes.
[18:13] <jcastro> mhall119: wanna just move it over to canonistack?
[18:13] <mhall119> jcastro: no
[18:14] <jcastro> awwww
[18:14] <jcastro> but it looks like so much fun!
[18:14] <mhall119> it is fun
[18:14] <jcastro> heh
[18:14] <mhall119> but not ready to host critical production code
[18:14] <jcastro> ok, so really, what do we need to do
[18:14] <jcastro> RT and escalate?
[18:15] <mhall119> yeah, at this point maybe we need to request provisioning a new server just for summit until we can figure it out
[18:15] <jcastro> ok if you can file the ticket I will get it escalated.
[18:16] <jcastro> shoot me a # when you get it.
[18:16] <mhall119> ok
[18:16] <jcastro> and I've got a machine in mind, but after the openstack summit
[18:16] <jcastro> maybe IS will let us keep this monster box for the demo
[18:16] <jcastro> though if I was them I wouldn't, heh
[18:16] <jcastro> is 40 cores and 128GB of ram enough for summit?
[18:16]  * jcastro evil grins
[18:16] <mhall119> jcastro: can we re-use RT #17895 ?
[18:17] <jcastro> sure
[18:20] <jcastro> mhall119: robbie is wondering if that's the right ticket #
[18:24] <mhall119> jcastro: it's the one we used to have them try and see what's using the memory
[18:24] <mhall119> jcastro: https://rt.ubuntu.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=17895
[18:25] <jcastro> mhall119: ok can  you add something to the effect that the issue isn't sorted?
[18:26] <jcastro> and then I'll ask robbie to bump it
[18:28] <mhall119> jcastro: you want me to copy robbie on it?
[18:29] <jcastro> yes please
[18:29] <mhall119> done
[18:33] <jcastro> popey: heya
[18:33] <jcastro> you seem to be in the know
[18:33] <popey>  _   _       _
[18:33] <popey> | | | | __ _| |__
[18:33] <popey> | |_| |/ _` | '_ \
[18:33] <popey> |  _  | (_| | | | |
[18:33] <popey> |_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|
[18:33] <popey>
[18:33] <popey> sorry, go on
[18:33] <jcastro> nice
[18:33] <jcastro> so like, how does it work if you post something
[18:33] <jcastro> on g+
[18:33] <popey> you choose who to post to
[18:33] <popey> which circles
[18:33] <jcastro> right
[18:34] <popey> I post _all_ of mine as public
[18:34] <jcastro> but what if someone is being annoying
[18:34] <popey> i unfollow douches
[18:34] <jcastro> but not ... report as being bad annoying
[18:34] <popey> de-circle
[18:34] <jcastro> ok
[18:34] <popey> then i only see when they reply to other people or reshare my stuff
[18:34] <jcastro> how do I prevent someone from posting who isn't in my circle?
[18:34] <popey> i dont see their posts unless i feel like clicking on them or someone i know reshares
[18:34] <jcastro> I just don't post public? just to my extended circles?
[18:34] <popey> dont post public
[18:34] <popey> yeah
[18:35] <jcastro> and what does the extended mean, it doesn't let friends of a friend post does it?
[18:35] <popey> pass
[18:35] <popey> i think so
[18:35] <jcastro> k
[18:35] <popey> can i get back to ordering dominos now? :D
[18:35] <jcastro> I just want to make sure I don't get trolled
[18:35] <jcastro> ooh, dominos!
[18:35] <popey> hehe
[18:35] <popey> yes, king of pizza
[18:35] <popey> I _love_ dominos
[18:36] <jcastro> jono: here, use this one for that conversation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI
[18:36] <popey> haha
[18:36] <jono> jcastro, lol
[18:38] <popey> i have someone being a douche at me on G+ _right_ _now_
[18:38] <jcastro> popey: remember when I asked you if that Fab guy was a troll? And you kind of avoided the question?
[18:38] <jcastro> I don't really need your answer now.
[18:38] <jcastro> :)
[18:38] <popey> lol
[18:38] <popey> saying i should move him from my random circle to ubuntu circle
[18:38] <popey> he's not in any of my circles
[18:38] <popey> jcastro: i dont follow fab anywhere
[18:38] <popey> i actively avoid him where possible
[18:39] <jcastro> the tone of that conversation is basically why no one reads identica
[18:39] <popey> _exactly_
[18:40] <jcastro> it's like, a dogpile of a few people talking about how much better they are than every one else
[18:40] <jcastro> and then they ruin it for every one else
[18:40] <jcastro> which unfortunately leads to "why would I use Free network services when people just yell at me?"
[18:40] <popey> dude, we're on the same page :D
[18:41] <jcastro> I don't see the argument of forcing people to use services as being free at all
[18:42] <popey> i love that dominos accepts paypal
[18:42] <popey> means I can be a fat lazy oaf and not go and get my wallet
[18:42] <jcastro> mhall119: ok so next thought
[18:42] <jcastro> iirc orlando was one huge L shaped thing
[18:42] <jcastro> instead of monitors
[18:42] <jcastro> what about a projector on the one huge wall
[18:45] <jcastro> popey: I wish you could have like, anti-circles
[18:45] <jcastro> like say "stupid people"
[18:45] <popey> oh i have an 'asshats' circle
[18:46] <popey> so far only one person in it
[18:46] <jcastro> oooh
[18:46] <jcastro> so what do you get by having them in a circle vs. just not following them?
[18:46] <popey> they think you're interested in what they have to say
[18:47] <popey> when in fact you just laugh at every utterance
[18:47] <popey> i should get out more
[18:47] <jcastro> oh
[18:47] <jcastro> so I heard this concept they use on some communities
[18:47] <jcastro> that is totally brilliant
[18:47] <jcastro> have you ever heard of hellbanning?
[18:47] <popey> no
[18:47] <jcastro> ok so
[18:47] <jcastro> assume a forum or something
[18:48] <jcastro> some guy is just being an idiot, and never reforms, etc.
[18:48] <jcastro> so you hellban them
[18:48] <jcastro> then, they are the only ones that see their posts
[18:48] <jcastro> but no one else does
[18:48] <popey> haha
[18:48] <jcastro> so they flail and flail and think people are ignoring them
[18:48] <jcastro> then they just go somewhere else
[18:48] <popey> thats an interesting way of doing it
[18:49] <jcastro> so while they keep replying and being themselves, the normal community isn't affected, and the guy thinks people are just ignoring him, and then moves on to youtube comments or wherever people like that hang out.
[18:50] <popey> did you see that blog post i think zonker shared, woman who gets loads of hatemail?
[18:50] <jcastro> it's totally genious, though a little dishonest tbh
[18:50] <jcastro> Kathy Sierra
[18:50] <jcastro> she's spoken at Guadec before
[18:50] <jcastro> how to build passionate communities, etc.
[18:51] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehYoIKTsiV0 i love this
[18:53] <mhall119> jcastro: L-shaped?
[18:53] <jcastro> yeah, the venue I mean
[18:53] <mhall119> there were 3 side hallways off the main one, and the plenary room across from those
[18:54] <jcastro> right
[18:54] <jcastro> so, on the wall facing the little hallways
[18:54] <jcastro> tilt your head up.
[18:54] <jcastro> right there.
[18:55] <jcastro> because I am willing to bet new TVs are out of  the question, and rewriting that viewer part in summit is asking for torture.
[18:55] <mhall119> jcastro: http://www.thecaribeorlando.com/uploadedImages/Meetings_And_Events/Floor_Plans_Capacity_Charts/cro_conventionCenterMap.gif?n=9176
[18:56] <jcastro> yeah, see where it says Foyer
[18:56] <jcastro> face east
[18:56] <jcastro> and up, above the doors
[18:57] <jcastro> another solution would be
[18:57] <jcastro> in each hallway
[18:57] <jcastro> where a TV is
[18:57] <mhall119> jcastro: I don't remember
[18:58] <jcastro> horizontal scroll to the group of rooms that hallway is
[18:58] <mhall119> jcastro: cjohnston might be willing to stop by and scout it out though
[18:58] <jcastro> ah nuts though
[18:58] <jcastro> it's still a resolution problem
[18:59] <jcastro> the projector would need to be way more high rez
[18:59] <mhall119> jcastro: we can scale down the size of the blocks, but it's hard enough to fit text into them
[19:00] <jcastro> ok normally how many columns, 9?
[19:00] <mhall119> the blocks are fix-width at 100px, IIRC
[19:00] <cjohnston> jcastro: we were trying to find out from james_w if linaro wanted to seperate summits...
[19:00] <jcastro> man, 24 rooms
[19:00] <mhall119> what's the horizontal resolution of the screens?
[19:00] <cjohnston> mhall119: or we could do like what they have done, where if you go to s.l.o they ONLY display linaro stuff..
[19:01] <jcastro> well, they're 1080p TVs right?
[19:01] <jcastro> so 1920?
[19:02] <mhall119> cjohnston: do we have linaro-only rooms?
[19:02] <jcastro> ok, one solution could be leave the layout the same, but then every 30 seconds show the other part of the schedule, and then just alternate
[19:03] <jcastro> like airport monitors do
[19:03] <mhall119> :P
[19:03] <popey> marquee
[19:03] <jcastro> or find a firefox extension that marquee's horizontal scrolling, lol
[19:03] <mhall119> let's just attach a kinect to each one and let people do Minority Report style scrolling
[19:04] <mhall119> don't the Linaro guys have something for that?
[19:05] <jcastro> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/autoscroll-for-musicians/
[19:05] <jcastro> so like this
[19:05] <jcastro> but left/right
[19:05] <jcastro> come to think of it, that would be handy during allstars too heh
[19:06] <mhall119> jcastro: are the hackfest rooms only going to be used for hackfests?
[19:06] <jcastro> yes
[19:06] <jcastro> but only in the afternoons
[19:06] <jcastro> in the morning, sessions
[19:06] <mhall119> ok
[19:06] <jcastro> (already tried to think about that)
[19:06] <mhall119> so how many rooms do we have?
[19:06] <jcastro> 24
[19:06] <jcastro> just counted
[19:07] <mhall119> can we do 12 on one screen and 12 on another?
[19:07] <jcastro> right
[19:08] <cjohnston> do we have enough screens for that
[19:08] <jcastro> asking
[19:13] <jcastro> ok so if we have the screens or not
[19:13] <jcastro> either way we need to split the schedule right?
[19:13] <jcastro> like
[19:13] <mhall119> right
[19:13] <jcastro> summit.ubuntu.com/$day-part1 and part2 or something
[19:14] <jcastro> and then we either have 2 screens, or we set the firefox tabs one on each part of the day and set them to like, auto flip back and forth every 30 seconds
[19:14] <mhall119> it'll be more like summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/2011-10-31/?rooms=21&page=1
[19:14] <jcastro> sure sure
[19:14] <mhall119> on 12 instead of 21
[19:15] <jcastro> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-slideshow/
[19:15] <jcastro> booyah
[19:15] <jcastro> there's the badget
[19:15] <jcastro> badger even!
[19:15]  * mhall119 wishes ctrl+left-click worked like middle click in Unity Launcher
[19:16] <jcastro> mhall119: ok so elmo hasn't responded yet, I'm going to go get caffeine refills, bbiab
[19:16] <jcastro> I'll have a think while I walk to the store.
[19:16] <jcastro> bbi15
[19:20] <mhall119> dlawson responded
[19:21] <Pendulum> Pici: Happy Birthday!
[19:21] <mhall119> jcastro: given that this problem struck both Summit and LoCo Directory at the same time, I'm not inclined to belive it's something in their application code
[19:22] <cjohnston> mhall119: what needs to be done to update for the new openid
[19:22] <cjohnston> mhall119: and i get errors with status
[19:25] <mhall119> cjohnston: out of memory errors?
[19:25] <cjohnston> yup
[19:26] <nigelb> My theory is status is screwing up everything else.
[19:26] <cjohnston> mhall119: http://paste.ubuntu.com/700027/
[19:26] <nigelb> :P
[19:26] <nigelb> jcastro: I USE THAT EVERY DAY AND DIDN'T REMEMBER THAT.
[19:26] <nigelb> (tab slide show)
[19:29] <nigelb> I use it for Nagios on a big screen at work.
[19:39] <jcastro> oh dude mhall119
[19:39] <jcastro> sciri says the schedules are separate
[19:39] <jcastro> we should be fine!
[19:45] <mhall119> jcastro: what does that mean?
[19:48] <jcastro> "Our AV vendor only has 8 45" plasmas total. The currently layout is 1 confidence monitor for the plenary, 4 UDS schedules, and 3 LDS schedules."
[19:48] <jcastro> jcastro: Well, I'm not 100% sure. We will have 4 UDS-branded schedules and 3 LDS-branded schedules. I don't know if that means the UDS schedules are UDS-only and the LDS schedules are LDS-only, or if it's just a branding change.
[19:49] <jcastro> ok so basically, I think james_w can answer that question
[19:49] <jcastro> but he always is all quiet when we talk about UDS
[19:49]  * jcastro jiggles james_w
[20:01] <Pici> Pendulum: Thanks! :)
[20:02] <jcastro> hey popey
[20:02] <jcastro> you about?
[20:03] <popey> hm?
[20:03] <jcastro> it's friday, Jason and I are going to do a hangout and just do ubuntu stuff
[20:03] <jcastro> chat, etc.
[20:03] <popey> :D
[20:03] <jcastro> come be english with us
[20:03] <popey> k
[20:06] <popey> yay, killed the browser
[20:07] <Pici> Pendulum: Happy birthday to you too ;)
[20:08] <Pendulum> Pici: thank you!
[20:23] <cjohnston> jcastro: http://summit.linaro.org/uds-p/2011-10-31/
[20:23] <cjohnston> I think we should figure out a way to split off their rooms
[20:37] <popey> jcastro: clicked exit by accident!
[20:37] <popey> cant get back in
[20:37] <popey> cant get back in
[23:06] <mhall119> Pendulum: happy birtday


[15:19] <tsimonq2> Good morning everyone :)
[15:19] <tsimonq2> This week is the week... finally :)
[15:20] <tsimonq2> I'll be scrolling through backlog, but if there is something that should be brought to my attention specifically please let me know. Thanks!
[15:24] <tsimonq2> Testing https://github.com/lxqt/libqtxdg/commit/3909ad12af018b2c4e1452bac2de2e3b2e3b69fd as a potential fix for the menu hiding and such
[15:24] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Commit 3909ad1 in lxqt/libqtxdg "Follow `freedesktop.org` in adding dirs under `DefaultDirectoryDirs` (#285)"
[15:29] <kc2bez[m]> Ah yes, the standards dilemma. https://xkcd.com/927
[15:30] <kc2bez[m]> Morning BTW 👋
[15:31] <kc2bez[m]> I think release notes are the only thing coming to mind right now on the TODO list.
[15:32] <tsimonq2> kc2bez[m]: If someone could throw me their existing notes, even if it's just for Beta, I can take that on.
[15:32] <tsimonq2> Anything else? :)
[15:34] <kc2bez[m]> This is what guiverc had for Beta which doesn't really translate well to actual release notes https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/lubuntu-kinetic-kudu-22-10-beta-release/3640
[15:34] <kc2bez[m]> tsimonq2: Sorry I've been MIA much of the cycle.
[15:34] <tsimonq2> kc2bez[m]: No worries. I'll get there :)
[15:35] <tsimonq2> https://notes.lubuntu.me/WV_ANNcCS0-9gk9kn2k-Bw#
[15:35] <tsimonq2> I'll grab the source text from one of the previous releases and adapt it
[15:35] <kc2bez[m]> This is what we had for the initial Jammy release. https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/lubuntu-22-04-lts-jammy-jellyfish-release-notes/3179
[16:38] <tsimonq2> uhoh...
[16:38] <tsimonq2> We dropped the ball on Featherpad.
[16:39] <tsimonq2> Current release is 1.3.3, version in archive is 1.3.0
[17:14] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons guiverc arraybolt3 et al. ^^^ release notes are ready for a second set of eyes
[17:16] <tsimonq2> Off the top of my head, it does need a mention for the new wallpaper
[17:16] <tsimonq2> I don't have the exact details on that, so I'll leave it to Dan or Chris
[17:41] <tsimonq2> I don't have enough time to drive libqtxdg to completion today, I have some debs I just need the LXQt stack rebuilt against
[17:42] <tsimonq2> If anything else urgent comes up, please ping. Thanks :)
[17:51] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Kinetic Final] (20221017.1) has been added


[00:00] <peitschie> wgrant: many thanks again :)
[00:00] <wgrant> np
[00:06] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[00:06] <wgrant> I just got a really foul OOPS that I both shouldn't have got, and is broken.
[00:07] <wgrant> There is a self-closing <script> in the header, so the page is just about empty.
[00:07] <wgrant> (edge)
[01:35] <jtv> hi wgrant, thanks for saving us from that dpkg path traversal vulnerability :)
[01:38] <wgrant> jtv: Morning.
[01:52] <jtv> wgrant: I've been up all night playing with representing different kinds of buildfarmjobs in the UI
[01:53] <jtv> My current experiment goes something like this: delegate representing the current job to the buildqueue, which in turn delegates to specific_job.
[01:54] <jtv> I introduce two new interfaces: IBuildFarmBuildJob ("an IBuildFarmJob that also refers to a Build") and IBuildFarmBranchJob ("an IBuildFarmJob that's also an IBranchJob").
[01:54] <jtv> These have their own templates to render them on the builder pages.
[01:54] <jtv> There's a fallback for "just an IBuildFarmJob without a Branch or a Build," but currently I don't think anything would use that.
[01:55] <jtv> So everything is based on a hierarchy of interfaces, with TAL at various levels of refinement.
[01:57] <jtv> Now, the builder-index TAL only has the "there is a current job" case and the "there is no current job" case.
[01:57] <jtv> If there is a job, the rendering mostly happens in a BuildQueue view (the permissions check moves in there as well so the TAL only needs to deal with a single condition).
[01:58] <jtv> The TAL for the BuildQueue then incorporates the polymorphic rendering of the BranchJob.
[01:58] <jtv> Sorry, the BuildFarmJob
[01:58] <wgrant> Right, this is sort of what I was thinking.
[01:58] <wgrant> But then people started throwing around ideas about redesigning the model.
[02:00] <jtv> I think know how you feel: "yes that has to happen, but given the choice between discussing that some more and taking the first useful step..."  :)
[02:00] <wgrant> Heh.
[02:00] <wgrant> Yes.
[02:01] <jtv> Funny thing is, from where I'm standing, the whole where-do-we-keep-history thing seems to be entirely independent of this.
[02:08] <lifeless> bzr
[02:08] <lifeless> kthankssolveitonce
[02:10] <jtv> lifeless: ??
[02:44] <lifeless> jtv: 'where to store history' :)
[02:45] <jtv> ah, that part I was emphatically not planning to solve anytime soon  :)
[07:05] <wgrant> jml: Is having an open team as launchpad-web's owner a really great idea? It lets everyone in the world change the security contact, for example.
[08:30] <jtv> wgrant: I've been staring myself blind at how the buildd master keeps track of what build belongs to a buildfarmjob... does it simply keep the buildfarmjobbehavior in memory and just forget about the whole thing if it ever gets restarted before the slave is finished?
[08:30] <wgrant> jtv: No, it can be restarted fine.
[08:30] <wgrant> jtv: Isn't a Build a BuildFarmJob?
[08:31] <wgrant> Builder.current_build_behavior looks at Builder.current_job and magically creates the behaviour from that.
[08:32] <jtv> Build is not a BuildFarmJob, but in some of the base buildfarm code it's tacitly understood that a buildfarmjob _has_ a build.
[08:32] <wgrant> Oh, is an IBuildFarmJob that sits between Job and (SourcePackageRecipe)Build?
[08:33]  * wgrant could just check the source.
[08:34] <jtv> Yes, pretty much...  generally the Job is the magic magnet that brings all the various parts of a slave job together.
[08:34] <jtv> Note that a SourcePackageRecipeBuild is not a Build.
[08:34] <wgrant> Right, it's a BuildBase.
[08:35] <wgrant> jtv: Don't the relevant implementations of IBuildFarmJob have a 'build' attribute?
[08:35] <jtv> True, they do.
[08:35]  * jtv needs pen and paper
[08:35] <wgrant> I think we just needed a bigger whiteboard at the sprint.
[08:35] <jtv> With this being BuildMaster's dirty little secret, it gets hard to keep track
[08:36]  * wgrant blames that for all design flaws.
[08:36] <jtv> Nice one
[08:36] <wgrant> It's nothing to do with buildd-manager.
[08:36] <jtv> Isn't that the process that drives this though?
[08:37] <wgrant> It is. But all the stuff that deals with jobs like that is all deep in the model.
[08:37] <wgrant> buildd-manager knows only about BuildQueues and Builders.
[08:39] <jtv> Right.  So what I'm trying to figure out is if we can do away with the Build.id in the buildfarmjob names.
[08:40] <jtv> And instead, have a single implementation for generating/verifying all those names, which contains just (1) the BuildQueue.id and (2) a cookie.
[08:40] <wgrant> Names meaning the slave build ID?
[08:40] <jtv> Yes
[08:40] <jtv> (confusingly referred to as "name" in IBuildFarmJob but "slave build ID" in IBuildFarmJobBehavior)
[08:41] <wgrant> I wasn't aware of the 'name' name.
[08:41]  * wgrant checks.
[08:41] <jtv> It's subtle: what I mean is it's the only sensible implementation for getName
[08:41] <jtv> ...though it's actually up to the behavior class to compose the slave build id in that way or some other way.
[08:42]  * wgrant isn't sure why it's getName() rather than just name.
[08:42] <wgrant> That makes me a little suspicious.
[08:42] <jtv> Yeah.  Right now, the conventional structure for the id is <Build.id>-<BuildQueue.id>
[08:43] <wgrant> (I added getTitle following that convention; I probably shouldn't have)
[08:43] <wgrant> Right.
[08:43] <jtv> But recipe builds use SourcePackageRecipeBuild.id instead of Build.id
[08:43] <wgrant> The content of it doesn't matter. As long as it's reasonably unique.
[08:43] <jtv> It's not even used to find back the BuildQueue?
[08:44] <wgrant> We use a method on BuildQueueSet for that.
[08:44] <wgrant> It's deep in SOMEWHERE.
[08:44] <jtv> Oh, that's getByJob's job isn't it
[08:44] <wgrant> I have branches that clean buildd-manager up and make it less completely ununderstandable.
[08:45] <wgrant> BuilddMaster.scanActiveBuilders is all that should need to retrieve a BuildQueue within the manager.
[08:45] <jtv> I can only cheer for you.  Given all this, let's stop pretending there's any structure to the slave build id at all, beyond what's needed to guarantee uniqueness.
[08:45] <wgrant> Except for the thing that finds a new job to dispatch.
[08:45] <wgrant> Right.
[08:46] <wgrant> I mean, it could probably just be the BQ ID.
[08:46] <wgrant> Although it would be nice to be safe.
[08:46] <jtv> It should include that, but shouldn't it also be resistant against a compromised slave guessing the id of another ongoing slave job?
[08:46] <jtv> Which is why I was suggesting <BuildQueue.id>-<cookie>
[08:47] <jtv> Because you obviously can't trust a slave who doesn't have his cookie.
[08:47] <wgrant> jtv: I thought so when looking at the code on the first night -- I got very scared.
[08:47] <wgrant> But the master doesn't trust that.
[08:47] <wgrant> it only uses it to check against the DB record and potentially rescue.
[08:47] <wgrant> You can't use it to hijack a build.
[08:48] <jtv> So what does the master trust?
[08:48] <wgrant> The DB.
[08:48] <jtv> BuildQueue.builder?
[08:48] <jtv> Builder.currentjob?
[08:48] <wgrant> Right.
[08:49] <jtv> I'm sort of disoriented... is there any reason why we have this id at all now?
[08:50] <wgrant> We need something to check if the builder needs to be rescued. A hijacked builder may be able to subvert that detection, but it's nice to be able to handle the non-malicious case.
[08:50] <jtv> The thing about malicious cases is that they have a way of disguising themselves as whatever non-malicious cases you try to support.
[08:50] <jtv> :)
[08:51] <wgrant> The worst they can do is prevent the builder from being aborted, thus hanging it, or cause inappropriate abortion, in which case they get aborted.
[08:52] <wgrant> Also, they used to be able to break a log message or two, but that might have been fixed in the refactor.
[08:53] <jtv> You're saying we've been very thoroughly checking for a complex, unlikely error condition that we've got no idea what to do with if we ever spotted it.
[08:53] <jtv> This has all the hallmarks of government.
[08:54] <wgrant> No, it has happened twice today.
[08:54] <wgrant> It happens when builders drop of the network for a few minutes, for example.
[08:54] <jtv> I don't mean the rescue, I mean mismatched ids!
[08:55] <wgrant> The mismatched string is useful. Detecting a mismatch between the build and buildqueue IDs has probably never been useful, right.
[08:55] <jtv> waitwaitwhat
[08:55] <jtv> "The mismatched string" is useful?
[08:56] <wgrant> There are two cases: the slave thinks it's building something, but the master thinks it's building something else.
[08:56] <wgrant> The string mismatch will be noticed by the master, and it will solve everything.
[08:56] <wgrant> The other case is where the slave thinks it's building something, but the master thinks it isn't building anything, and the something doesn't exist in the DB.
[08:57] <jtv> Ah, ok, so matching the slave build id to the buildqueue id is useful, but further sanity-checking on the slave build id is not.
[08:57] <wgrant> Let me think.
[08:57] <wgrant> Probably not, no.
[08:58] <wgrant> So, for the case where the master thinks it isn't building anything, it should probably just abort straight away.
[08:58] <wgrant> When the master does think it's building something, the slave just needs to possess some value that can be linked back to the buildqueue.
[08:58] <jtv> Even if we're not sure of the hazards, would you agree that we can do a more thorough job of the check with less work if we just use <buildqueue>-<cookie>?
[08:58] <wgrant> We can't reliably detect compromised builders, so we should not try.
[08:58] <wgrant> Right.
[08:58] <wgrant> Even just <buildqueue> is probably fine, but who knows...
[08:59] <jtv> Right.  If we're not 100% sure, we can add the cookie with very little work—and still scratch all this &$%*@# complexity
[09:00] <wgrant> Well, it's not *that* complex.
[09:01] <wgrant> I mean, if I'm malicious I can easily steal the cookie from another build log.
[09:01] <jtv> I just had a recipe-build test fail because it passed a SourcePackageRecipeBuild.id instead of a Build.id to BuildFarmJobBehaviorBase.verifySlaveBuildID.
[09:01] <wgrant> Hm? That should be fine.
[09:02] <wgrant> As long as the correct behaviour class was selected.
[09:02] <jtv> The correct behaviour class didn't have its own verifySlaveBuildID
[09:02] <wgrant> It doesn't need it.
[09:03] <wgrant> Doesn't SourcePackageRecipeBuildFarmJob have a .build?
[09:03] <jtv> Well, I was simplifying verifySlaveBuildID and a slightly more thorough check turned out to be simpler.
[09:03] <wgrant> What was the change?
[09:03] <jtv> Yes, it does, but it's a buildbase not a build.
[09:04] <wgrant> Both Build and SourcePackageRecipeBuild have an 'id' attribute, and they are the only concretions of BuildBase.
[09:04] <jtv> IIRC the original checked the build id it got from the slave build id to self.buildfarmjob.build.id
[09:04] <wgrant> Right.
[09:04] <wgrant> That was done in order to be generic.
[09:04] <jtv> I see.
[09:04] <wgrant> Ugly, yes.
[09:05] <jtv> I think part of the problem there is that I genericized the lookups of Build.id, SourcePackageBuild.id, and BuildQueue.id to use a single helper function.
[09:05] <jtv> Which I still think makes sense.
[09:05] <jtv> But being so generic, of course it does some sanity checks against comparing ids from different classes.
[09:06] <jtv> Except obviously I can't just go "are these two of the same class?"
[09:06] <jtv> So instead, the helper takes the expected class as an argument and does a zope "isinstance" check.
[09:07] <wgrant> Ahh.
[09:08] <jtv> And no matter which way we turn it, that work seems pointless—the real link is made by the buildqueue id (which by rights should come first in the slave build id) and the added "specialized extra id stuff" in there is just going to make accidental mismatches more likely and any stopping power for attacks less likely.
[09:09] <wgrant> Right.
[09:09] <jtv> abentley should be asleep :)
[09:09] <wgrant> remember this dates from the beggining of time.
[09:09] <wgrant> abentley: He pinged out a couple of minutes ago, so he probably is.
[09:09] <jtv> wgrant: you seem to be overestimating my age, which is not generally considered the safe side to err on in conversation.
[09:09] <jtv> I do not "remember" the beginning of time, thank you very much.
[09:10] <jtv> I'll ask barry though.
[09:10] <wgrant> Heh.
[09:11] <jtv> So here's what I suggest, and can propose on the mailing list:
[09:12] <jtv>  * We have a single "concoct an id for this buildfarmjob" method.    Laziness is encouraged in the implementation classes.
[09:12] <jtv>  * A single verification method is enough.
[09:13] <wgrant> Hopefully Soyuz will agree that the pseudo-unique string can be dropped.
[09:13] <wgrant> But yes, please propose.
[09:13] <jtv>  * The entire, ready-made id gets passed to dispatchBuildToSlave.
[09:13] <jtv>  * ...which probably doesn't have much left besides this to justify specialized implementations, but I digress.
[09:14] <wgrant> dispatchBuildToSlave has to cache files and calculate arguments and all that.
[09:14] <jtv>  * Everybody agrees to bury the whole issue and forget the episode ever happened.
[09:15] <jtv> Yeah, but these are separate jobs.  I'm not convinced we need a single "do all the household stuff you need here" method.
[09:15] <wgrant> Right.
[09:15] <wgrant> It should all change if everything goes properly async, anyway.
[09:16] <wgrant> RecordingSlave's trickery makes me sad.
[09:16] <wgrant> But it was the quickest way to make bits of it async.
[09:18] <jtv> BTW you may think it odd that I keep coming back to the cookie...  you probably have a much better understanding of whether it would be really needed; for me it's an insurance policy.  "If double-checking the slave build id is necessary, this does it better.  If it's not necessary, this is still less work than what we have now.  And future changes are more likely to strengthen these arguments than to weaken them."
[09:19] <jtv> -> no need to argue over the colour of the inside of the bikeshed.  :-)
[09:19] <wgrant> Yep.
[09:20] <jtv> I'd much rather add that piece of code than get stuck in that discussion while maintaining the current code!
[09:20] <wgrant> But cookie probably implies DB change.
[09:20] <wgrant> And DB changes make me sad.
[09:20] <jtv> ah, there's the catch: is this id actually stored anywhere
[09:21] <wgrant> No.
[09:21] <wgrant> It is calculated by the master, and stored by the slave during the build.
[09:21] <wgrant> At no point should it be possessed by the master outside dispatchBuildToSlave and rescueBuilderIfLost.
[09:22] <jtv> So that does make the case against the cookie stronger, unless we can find some generic, reproducible, and less-than-predictable stuff to hash.
[09:22] <jtv> Or include in some way.
[09:26] <wgrant> Let's just ask Soyuz, I think.
[09:26] <jtv> Yes.
[09:27] <jtv> (FWIW the exact Job.date_created would IMHO probably be a better "cookie" than anything we have now, though still not particularly good)
[09:27] <wgrant> Ah, yes, that is a good idea actually.
[09:28] <jtv> Certainly better than using floating-point primary keys, as a friend's customer did.
[09:28] <wgrant> Since it's the particular build of the BQ.
[09:28] <wgrant> Haha.
[09:29] <jtv> (BTW I got a call from the hardcore windows guy who's trying out Ubuntu Server...  to my utter amazement he's wildly enthusiastic despite the teething problems you'd expect)
[09:30] <jtv> Okay, I'll write this up for the ML
[09:31] <wgrant> Great! On both counts.
[10:25] <jtv> wgrant: message is on the way
[10:25]  * wgrant reads.
[10:26] <wgrant> jtv: Build.id and BuildBase.id are the same thing.
[10:26] <wgrant> Build inherits BuildBase.
[10:27] <jtv> There isn't really a BuildBase.id though, is there?  I meant "the id of some other BuildBase-derived class."
[10:27] <wgrant> True.
[10:31] <jtv> Which only goes to illustrate how messy the whole thing is, I suppose
[10:44] <jtv> wgrant: it's been about a 32-hour working day, so I think I'll go enjoy the tail of weekend now.  See you next week I hope!
[10:45] <wgrant> jtv-afk: Wow! Yes, go and have a weekend.
[10:45] <wgrant> See you.
[10:45] <jtv-afk> :)


[00:12] <scientes> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba4/+bug/999995
[00:12] <scientes> getting close
[00:12] <scientes> greg-g,
[00:14] <scientes> and I still havn't come with a good idea for bug 1,000,000
[00:15] <scientes> ugggh, unity-2d is slow
[00:21] <scientes> http://www.pixoulphotography.com/2012/01/22/fotoshop-by-adobe/
[00:34] <pleia2> it is done
[00:34] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1000000
[00:46] <DonkeyHotei> up to 1000006 now
[01:06] <jyo> pleia2: Yay, you updated the origami CD sleeves for 12.04 back in January. :D
[01:08] <Corey> pleia2: Heading down in ~2.
[01:45] <pleia2> jyo: mpaoli has some more updates that have fold lines!
[02:02] <scientes> pleia2, fold lines are essential for those that unlike us are not gurus of origami :)
[02:04] <scientes> http://jonathancarter.org/2012/05/16/launchpad-net-bug-1-000-000/
[04:23] <jyo> jtatum: Magic 8-Ball on Red Rock Thursday? Outlook good?
[06:31] <philipballew> Staying the week in Napa, I have gotten more comments about my laptop saying "wow, thats a lot of stickers devoted to a restaurant"
[06:31] <philipballew> Maybe I need to go to this restaurant here and hand out CD's
[09:57] <philipballew> Dennys should really not give free refills on coffee
[09:57] <philipballew> its like they never want me to leave
[16:24] <philipballew> pleia2, I see I can barrow your 12.04 pdf, but Am I free to modify it as well?
[16:25]  * philipballew would hate to do something wrong and get his butt sued by pleia2
[16:26] <pleia2> philipballew: yep, the only things you're required to do with cc-by-sa is give me attribution (you don't have to, it's ok) and release your version under a similar license (please do this)
[16:27] <pleia2> remixes, selling it, all is fine
[16:28] <philipballew> alright, Im just adding a few things to a talk im giving in Davis. I can just keep the cc-sa link at the bottom and put Liz is awesome below it
[16:33] <pleia2> haha
[16:35] <philipballew> "this pamphlet has been made by pleia2, if you liked this handout and talk consider donating money to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:35] <pleia2> *gmail.com
[16:35] <pleia2> ;)
[16:35] <philipballew> "Donations start at $50 dollars"
[16:35] <pleia2> but actually, I don't think I have a paypal account there
[16:36] <philipballew> I dont either. I have managed a paypal accound for donation purposes in the past, but I never really liked them.
 Fedora is still arguing over names. Like the time could not be spent, making a better installer. Or making it more useful.
[16:39] <MarkDude> One of the most common things I heard at UDS- WHY are they spending sooooo much time on this?
[16:39] <MarkDude> idk.
[16:40] <pleia2> bikeshed.org
[16:41] <philipballew> Damn straight!
[16:41] <pleia2> it would happen in any community
[16:42] <philipballew> it has nothing to do with computers as well. Just the way humans work probably
[16:43] <philipballew> you see it with unity.
[16:44] <philipballew> People will always want to tell people how they think something should be done pleia2
[16:45] <MarkDude> Yep. They now want to limit naming to themes.
[16:45]  * MarkDude is suggesting the theme is *hotdogs*
[16:46] <philipballew> I still have yet to get Ubuntu changed to Philbuntu despite my hard efforts
[16:47]  * MarkDude just felt a disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly saying oh crap. Here it goes again...
[16:47] <MarkDude> Keep with is philipballew
[16:47]  * MarkDude wanted to make his own version , called *Dudebuntu*
[16:48] <philipballew> I mean, I dont see what is wrong with the name.
[16:48] <philipballew> with linux mint having all these "editions" maybe I can get a Linux Mint philipballew edition
[16:48] <philipballew> then I might actually try it
[16:49] <DonkeyHotei> when ubuntu christian edition came out, i speculated that there would next be a dairy farmers' edition, moobuntu
[16:50] <philipballew> my constant email to all Canonical employees has resulted in nothing. I think I will update my auto-emailer to every hour to send to all Canonical Employees
[16:50] <philipballew> I wonder why somebody needs to make a "christian edition"
[16:51] <philipballew> makes Christians look both separate and stupid...
[16:52] <MarkDude> RTF philipballew , You have it already :)
[16:53] <philipballew> seriously MarkDude
[16:55] <DonkeyHotei> philipballew: and nothing was removed to make it, only added
[16:56] <MarkDude> Yep
[16:56] <MarkDude> Well minus some branding stuff
[16:56] <philipballew> DonkeyHotei, It just has bible application I think or stuff like that iirc
[16:56] <MarkDude> That stuff can be removed and switched to generic iptions
[16:56] <philipballew> I am not yet sold on reading books on the computer myself
[16:58] <philipballew> Question here: would someone want to say I am actually a good person on the wiki for membership board:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/philipballew
[16:59] <pleia2> philipballew: probably want to s/Council/Board on that wiki page
[16:59] <philipballew> pleia2, I should probably not type things at 4 am
[16:59] <pleia2> it's a membership board which just reviews applications, not a governing council in any way
[17:00]  * philipballew high fives pleia2
[17:00] <pleia2> ^5
[17:00] <philipballew> I tried high 4's once, they never cought on...
[17:06] <MarkDude> Trying to write a reasonable response to naming thing is harder than I thought. I am just going to include pleia2 's link. Tell folks to grab some popcorn and pull up a seat. This is going to get interesting :)
[17:07]  * MarkDude is *actually* going to have to draft a response to this.
[17:08]  * philipballew trusts MarkDude 's judgment
[17:08] <MarkDude> Well on the hotdog thing?
[17:09]  * MarkDude questions his own judgement here, luckily it is a silly matter, and being wrong here does not have dire results
[17:09] <philipballew> Well I do enjoy hot Dogs, but apparently India does not
[17:09] <MarkDude> Well mostly folks over 35
[17:09]  * MarkDude is in 40s, so there is no agism here
[17:09] <philipballew> hum. wonder why
[17:10]  * MarkDude has guesses regarding schools, UK involvement, etc
[17:11] <MarkDude> in writing my report on UDS. It starts out- it was hella fun. also folks were wondering what the hell the debate over the name thing
[17:11] <MarkDude> mark S has saved some valuable time - by just picking names himself
[17:11] <MarkDude> :D
[18:41] <bkerensa> pleia2: looks like you guys are setup for puppetconf ;) cheers
[19:07] <pleia2> bkerensa: yeah, thanks :)
[19:29] <pleia2> pmatulis: no need to PM, if you want to talk we can talk here :)
[19:30] <pmatulis> ok
[19:30] <pmatulis> can you remind me what Warren's last name is?  i was on the walking tour with him
[19:31] <pleia2> hmm, I'll check the RSVP list (not sure off the top of my head)
[19:32] <pleia2> nope, I don't know :(
[19:33] <pmatulis> oh well.  thx again for organizing the tour
[19:36] <pleia2> you're welcome :)
[19:47] <DonkeyHotei> the only warren i remember from uds is warren turkal, wt on freenode
[20:24] <bkerensa> gimp source package is so big >.<
[20:53] <jtatum> pleia2: did you get a reboot announcement from linode? just got one with an ominous message in it
[21:01] <jtatum> "This maintenance is required due to a software issue which our vendor will disclose to the public in a few weeks."
[21:04] <DonkeyHotei> don't they use kvm now?
[21:05] <pleia2> jtatum: nope, which datacenter are you in? (I have ones in Newark and Dallas)
[21:06] <jtatum> dallas and fremont. you should start getting notices today. was just reading the #linode logs.. it's all hosts
[21:06] <jtatum> the notice i got was for fremont
[21:07] <pleia2> ah :)
[21:13] <jyo> jtatum: Tomorrow?
[21:14] <jtatum> jyo: saturday, 7-10PM pacific
[21:14] <jyo> jtatum: I mean for the Ubuntu Hour. :)
[21:15] <jtatum> lol :) yeah, it's on. sending email now
[21:37] <jtatum> jyo: have you heard from jdeslippe yet?