[10:59]  * persia peers about
[11:01] <persia> Oops.  Wrong Week
[11:01] <PmDematagoda> persia: isnt the meeting now?
[11:01]  * elky nudges persia
[11:01] <persia> I thought so too, but I checked the wiki page, and it's next week (the 14th)
[11:01] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
[11:01] <elky> aha
[11:02] <PmDematagoda> oh
[11:02] <PmDematagoda> well, then I'll have to withdraw my name for now
[11:02] <PmDematagoda> until my exams are over
[11:02] <persia> And you've been there so long :(
[11:02] <PmDematagoda> persia: no worries
[11:03] <PmDematagoda> persia: to be rather honest, Ive been forgetting this meeting for months :)
[11:03] <elky> we all have
[11:04] <PmDematagoda> elky: Ive made a reminder application to help me attend, looks like it works well :)
[11:05] <elky> i have one of those too. it's called a phone.
[11:05] <PmDematagoda> elky: lol
[11:05] <elky> it reminds me and i look in here, see a lack of amachu, and forget about it for the next week
[11:06] <PmDematagoda> elky: I still havent put that in, hopefully I can do that after my exams :)
[12:44] <egbert> ?
[12:44] <egbert> ?
[15:00] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is cjwatson.
[15:00] <cjwatson> [Technical Board]
[15:00] <cjwatson> mdz,Keybuk: here?
[15:01] <Keybuk> yup
[15:01] <mdz> yep
[15:01] <jono> hey folks
[15:01] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Internal Support For Community Development (Daniel Holbach)
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Internal Support For Community Development (Daniel Holbach)
[15:01] <cjwatson> dholbach doesn't seem to be around
[15:01] <cjwatson> jono: can you speak to this one?
[15:01] <jono> Daniel is on holiday
[15:02] <mdz> I don't know what this is referring to
[15:02] <cjwatson> this seems to be a carried-over item; it just doesn't look familiar and I can't remember what it was about
[15:02] <jono> I am not sure what this is referring to either
[15:02] <cjwatson> Maria appears to have added it on the 24th March
[15:02] <cjwatson> rev 190 of the wiki page
[15:02] <cjwatson> randa: ?
[15:03] <mdz> I think it was taken out of context and we can skip it
[15:03] <jono> ok
[15:03] <cjwatson> remove from agenda for next time then?
[15:03] <mdz> done
[15:03] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Codecs in ffmpeg (Reinhard Tartler) (cf. Debian #522373)
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Codecs in ffmpeg (Reinhard Tartler) (cf. Debian #522373)
[15:03] <cjwatson> this is carried over; is there anything new?
[15:03]  * siretart` waves
[15:04] <mdz> Daniel sent a followup to technical-board@
[15:04] <siretart`> AFAIUI there is no requirement to strip of encoders from the orig.tar.gz for 'main'.
[15:04] <mdz> with more questions from siretart
[15:04] <mdz> jono is working on writing up a clear policy based on the guidance from sabdfl at the meeting
[15:05] <mdz> he sent me a draft overnight, which I haven't had the chance to review yet
[15:05] <siretart`> as a small update, I've filed the same questions as debian bug #522373 with some possibly relevant references
[15:05] <mdz> jono: would you mind sending it direct to t-b@ so it doesn't block on me?
[15:05] <jono> mdz, no problem
[15:06] <cjwatson> siretart`: the encoder/decoder identity wrt MPEG LA patent enforcement is new information to me. At least at one point, I was under the impression that encoders were enforced more rigorously than decoders. Is this a relatively recent change?
[15:06] <siretart`> if there is no requirement to strip of the source, the package names -unstripped- are misleading at best. does someone have better names for the multiverse packages?
[15:07] <cjwatson> "full"
[15:07] <siretart`> cjwatson: according to my research, the taxes for MP3 and AAC are higher. for mpeg2 and co they are the same
[15:07] <mdz> do we consider these patents "alleged" or "judge-tested" per sabdfl's guidance?
[15:07] <siretart`> cjwatson: I'm happy to learn about other references though
[15:07] <cjwatson> siretart`: I'm speaking about whether they are in practice enforced, rather than what the financial considerations are in the event that they are enforced
[15:09] <siretart`> cjwatson: to my research, they are only enforced when selling products containing them. I have no indication that mere source-code distribution is enforced
[15:09] <siretart`> and TBH, mere binary distribution does not seem enforced as well, since ubuntu already shipped them in the past
[15:09] <siretart`> and others as well
[15:09] <cjwatson> selling products based on Ubuntu is something we support, of course
[15:09] <siretart`> that's of course no proof
[15:10] <siretart`> indeed. we blacklist these packages from the livecd, after all
[15:10] <siretart`> and thus, from the default install
[15:10]  * cjwatson nods
[15:11] <siretart`> practically, for jaunty, this lead to 3 changes:
[15:11] <cjwatson> mdz: are we in a position to answer siretart's e-mailed questions yet, or do we need to review jono's proposed policy first?
[15:11] <cjwatson> unfortunately I hadn't seen the latter before this meeting
[15:11] <siretart`> a) no longer munge libavcodec/allcodecs.c in the ffmpeg source
[15:12] <cjwatson> siretart`: for jaunty? what are the release-critical bugs being fixed by a proposed change here?
[15:12] <siretart`> b) enable (some) encoders in libavcodec52
[15:12] <siretart`> c) rename the multiverse -unstripped- package to a better fitting name
[15:12] <jono> cjwatson, the patent policy is a general  document that ultimately ends in "reviewing serious cases"
[15:13] <siretart`> cjwatson: well, ok, not really release critical, but I'd like to do the changes now and have them ready for karmik
[15:13] <mdz> cjwatson: I don't think the policy helps yet; it doesn't provide guidance on making the decision, only process (and thus needs work)
[15:13] <jono> so the continued review of this case can continue while the document is prepared
[15:15] <mdz> cjwatson: under the circumstances (we have no inquiry made by a patent holder), I think what siretart wants to do is OK, but since this is the first time we've applied this guidance, I'd like to confirm with sabdfl first
[15:15] <cjwatson> mdz,siretart: from what I can tell, I agree, but I would prefer the package rename to be deferred until karmic since that will involve changing reverse-dependencies
[15:16] <mdz> cjwatson: agreed, I don't see an indication that this is urgent or RC and so would default to leaving it alone for 9.04
[15:16] <mdz> that will also give us time to get the policy finished, and a final OK
[15:16] <siretart`> cjwatson: I don't think this will involve changing any reverse-dependencies, but I'm also happy to delay this for karmic
[15:17] <jono> I will continue to drive forward the patent policy and try to get something in place for the  next TB meeting
[15:17] <siretart`> mdz: the next question will be what to do about AAC, MP3 and h264. the h264 encoder is currently in multiverse, which could then be prmomoted to universe (which would get us vlc in universe as well)
[15:17] <cjwatson> siretart`: xine-lib
[15:17] <jono> I am keen to get this documented as complete as possiblesoon
[15:18] <siretart`> mdz: but that'
[15:18] <cjwatson> also aqualung, audacity, blender, ...
[15:18] <siretart`> mdz: but that's strictly speaking offtopic right now
[15:18] <cjwatson> siretart`: (from grep-aptavail unstripped)
[15:18] <mdz> jono,cjwatson,Keybuk: let's aim to process all of the feedback on the policy and have a proper draft ready for the next meeting
[15:18] <jono> mdz, agreed
[15:18] <cjwatson> right
[15:18] <Keybuk> mdz: agreed
[15:18] <cjwatson> siretart`: thanks for your patience on this
[15:18] <siretart`> cjwatson: yes, but we'd need transitional packages anyway.
[15:19] <mdz> jono: is it OK if we just edit your draft directly?
[15:19] <cjwatson> siretart`: right, best done at the start of a release cycle rather than the end :)
[15:19] <jono> mdz, sure
[15:19] <siretart`> cjwatson: of course
[15:19] <mdz> cjwatson: actions?
[15:19] <cjwatson> oh, sorry
[15:20] <cjwatson> [ACTION] TB to process feedback on Jono's proposed patent policy and complete draft by next meeting
[15:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  TB to process feedback on Jono's proposed patent policy and complete draft by next meeting
[15:20] <cjwatson> [ACTION] mdz to confirm siretart's proposed ffmpeg changes with sabdfl
[15:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to confirm siretart's proposed ffmpeg changes with sabdfl
[15:20] <cjwatson> anything else?
[15:21] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Archive Reorganisation (Colin Watson)
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Archive Reorganisation (Colin Watson)
[15:21] <cjwatson> sorry, I have no progress on that this week owing to being flat-out on jaunty
[15:21] <cjwatson> I believe the Launchpad changes are still on track
[15:21] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] AB
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  AB
[15:21] <cjwatson> err
[15:21] <jono> from my last check in with Daniel there was no further progress on the community side of the project other than organizational work
[15:21] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:22] <cjwatson> nhandler asked me a few days ago if we could keep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Technical up to date
[15:22] <mdz> nothing from me
[15:22] <Keybuk> I'm good
[15:22] <cjwatson> I was not entirely keen on the prospect of having to update yet another page with an IRC log, and asked whether it would be OK if we just linked to the mootbot log
[15:22] <cjwatson> any objections to that?
[15:23] <mdz> cjwatson: hmm, surely between the fridge and mootbot that should be automatable
[15:23] <cjwatson> mdz: you would have thought so, but ...
[15:23] <cjwatson> (and that was more or less my reaction too)
[15:23] <cjwatson> I'm not overly familiar with the world of automatic wiki editing myself
[15:23] <mdz> cjwatson: we can ask randa to help with that if needed
[15:24] <cjwatson> in the meantime, how about I put a note on our standing agenda next to "update TeamReports"
[15:24] <cjwatson> if it's just a link, it isn't too onerous
[15:24] <mdz> ok
[15:25] <cjwatson> has somebody been in contact with vorian to follow up from the last meeting?
[15:25] <jono> I spoke to him on the phone
[15:25] <cjwatson> I had a brief mail thread with him, CCed to technical-board@
[15:25] <jono> also I know nixternal has been in touch with him
[15:26] <cjwatson> I would like to know whether we should be scheduling a separate meeting with him at some point to reconsider him
[15:26] <jono> he did not mention any plans to consider an application again
[15:26] <cjwatson> it seemed to me that trying to cram it into the end of a TB meeting was part of the problem
[15:27] <jono> I think the barrage of questions at the same time was a factor too
[15:27] <jono> (mainly due to the lack of time)
[15:27] <cjwatson> yes, that stemmed from the meeting format
[15:27] <jono> maybe we could consider soliciting answers to questions on a wiki page
[15:27] <mdz> I'd like to revisit at some point how we process applicants; a panel interview is not necessarily the ideal format
[15:27] <jono> and then ask further questions in the meeting
[15:27] <jono> mdz, agreed
[15:28] <mdz> jono: could you take that on as part of your governance review?
[15:28] <mdz> jono: by the way, how is that going wrt the TB?
[15:28] <cjwatson> jono: or an e-mail interview
[15:28] <jono> mdz, no problem
[15:28] <jono> mdz, it has been bumped a few times, but on-going
[15:28] <jono> I should have something ready soon
[15:28] <jono> likely for the next meeting
[15:28] <cjwatson> (I find wikis to be a poor means of conversation, I don't imagine I'm the only one; I would prefer applications not to be a form-filling exercise)
[15:28] <jono> cjwatson, email interview could make sense
[15:29] <jono> my worry about email is that it could drag on for a long time
[15:29] <jono> whereas with a wiki the main questions could be answered first and then reviewed and discussed in the meeting
[15:29] <cjwatson> jono: could well be better than meetings every two weeks ;-)
[15:30] <jono> heh, wise point
[15:30] <cjwatson> e-mail seems workable in the MC; not ideal of course, but they do seem to make progress
[15:30] <cjwatson> (nowadays, anyway)
[15:30] <jono> why don't we try email first
[15:31] <egbert> is this the right place/moment to briefly discuss the server install script?
[15:33] <cjwatson> egbert: I'm not sure. What is the specific question?
[15:33] <egbert> I was wondering if there is a special reason to choose for just DHCP in the network settings. Why not a choice between fixed/dhcp?
[15:33] <mdz> egbert: what server install script?
[15:33] <cjwatson> you can cancel the DHCP progress bar and get a choice, or you can use expert mode
[15:33] <mdz> oh, you mean the installer used for the server edition
[15:33] <cjwatson> I don't think this is appropriate for this meeting though
[15:34] <cjwatson> you can ask questions about the installer in #ubuntu-installer
[15:34] <egbert> OK, then  I shut up.
[15:34] <egbert> will do, tnx
[15:34] <cjwatson> it sounds like we're finished here
[15:34] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[15:34] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:34.
[15:34] <cjwatson> I'll write stuff up
[15:34] <Keybuk> thanks cjwatson
[15:34] <Keybuk> and mdz
[15:35] <mdz> thanks all
[15:35] <egbert> bye
[15:35]  * Keybuk heads for breakfast
[15:36] <jono> thanks
[15:47] <james_w> it's interesting to the MC just moved *to* IRC interviews for applications, and now the TB is considering moving away from them
[16:00] <ttx> OK, who's here for the server team meeting ?
[16:00] <jamesrfla> I am
[16:00] <sommer> yo
[16:00] <nijaba> o/
[16:01] <ttx> You guessed it, the incredible mathiaz is unavailable, so you'll have to bear with the less-incredible me as your host.
[16:01] <zul> morning
[16:01] <zul> the more french ttx?
[16:01] <ttx> yes. The true one.
[16:01] <ttx> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is ttx.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <ttx> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <ttx> Last week logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090331
[16:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:02] <ttx> That should be quick, since there weren't any.
[16:03] <ttx> Unless someone wants to comment on some of last meeting points ?
[16:04] <ttx> I'll suppose not. Let's move on to:
[16:04] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
[16:04] <ttx> Anyone has any progress reports ?
[16:05]  * ttx feels very lonely :)
[16:06] <sommer> it's just that things are going really well :)
[16:06] <jamesrfla> Not really sure what to say. First meeting with you guys
[16:06] <ttx> sommer: did you get some reviewing on the Server Guide ?
[16:06] <ttx> sommer: how much is it OK to change things after StringFreeze ?
[16:06] <sommer> ttx: yep there was some
[16:07] <sommer> ttx: at this point it's very bad I guess translation freeze is tomorrow
[16:07] <sommer> ttx: but we can always fix issues with the karmic branch :)
[16:07] <ttx> sommer: likewise-open 5 apparently requires reboot before you can attempt a GUI login as a domain user. I uploaded a version that warns the user, but I thought adding it to the doc might also be a good idea
[16:07] <ivoks> o/
[16:08] <sommer> ttx: ah, ya that will probably have to be in karmic
[16:08] <sommer> ttx: or an SRU
[16:08] <ttx> sommer: ok. A bug is filed anyway.
[16:08] <sommer> ttx: cool, I think I rember seeing it
[16:09] <ttx> OK, let's move to Open bar^Wdiscussion
[16:09] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[16:09] <jamesrfla> what can we talk about in the open discussion?
[16:09] <ivoks> anything server related
[16:09] <ttx> jamesrfla: anything :)
[16:09] <ivoks> sorry for being late
[16:09] <ttx> So FinalFreeze is coming up this Thursday
[16:10] <ttx> if you have critical bugs (especially regressions) that have yet to be fixed, it's almost your last chance
[16:10] <jamesrfla> Does anybody have any suggestions for running two server os on one computer
[16:10] <ivoks> uh, already?
[16:11] <ttx> ivoks: April 9th
[16:11] <jamesrfla> hey that is my birthday ttx
[16:11] <ivoks> well, i sorted everything i had :)
[16:11] <egbert> Any chance that the postfix-dovecot mail system will be enhanced with amavis/spamassassin/etc?
[16:11] <ivoks> egbert: not for jaunty
[16:11] <egbert> offcause  not. but for KK?
[16:11] <ivoks> egbert: but that and much more should arrive in karmic
[16:12] <zul> if we dont work ivoks to the ground then then no
[16:12] <ivoks> it's not that i have that much to do
[16:12] <egbert> OK for the near future I'll install from .deb of taball
[16:13] <ivoks> tarball?
[16:13] <egbert> sorry...
[16:13] <ivoks> anyway, that's not meeting material
[16:13] <egbert> no
[16:13] <ttx> Nothing else anyone wants to mention ?
[16:14] <ivoks> i do
[16:14] <ivoks> we rock!
[16:14] <ivoks> :D
[16:14] <jamesrfla> lol
[16:14] <sommer> heeeh
[16:14] <ttx> \o/
[16:14] <jamesrfla> Go Ubuntu server :)
[16:15] <ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:15] <ttx> Same time, same bat-channel, next week ?
[16:15] <sommer> sure
[16:15] <jamesrfla> Can we make it another time or something. This time I can't make it
[16:16] <jamesrfla> The only reason I am hear today is because of my spring break
[16:16] <ttx> jamesrfla: what would be your availability ?
[16:16] <jamesrfla> Maybe 2PM eastern US time and any other time after that
[16:16] <ivoks> next week is spring break too
[16:16] <ivoks> jamesrfla: well, i don't want to be rude...
[16:16] <ivoks> but most of us are from europe
[16:16] <ivoks> :D
[16:17] <ivoks> 2pm eastern us is... quite late in europe
[16:17] <ttx> jamesrfla: team is across Europe/US so US mornings are the best time
[16:17] <jamesrfla> oh I see. Well just as long as you guys are okay with me not being hear all the time. Only days off I can make it
[16:17] <ivoks> s/most/part/
[16:18] <ttx> ok, so we'll keep the current time then
[16:18] <sommer> jamesrfla: there's a log, and the meeting minutes are usually posted to the server mailing list and blog
[16:19] <ttx> Anyone has anything else to add ?
[16:19] <ttx> Please ?
[16:19] <zul> i do...not really...hah kidding!
[16:19] <jamesrfla> okay sommer I will take a look at them when I miss the meeting
[16:19] <ttx> #endmeeting
[16:19] <ivoks> ttx: i was hoping we would beat the record this time :)
[16:19] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:19.
[16:19] <jamesrfla> short meeting
[16:19] <egbert> no, I'm off to the kitchen... 17:20 here (NL)
[16:20] <jamesrfla> fine with me :)
[16:20] <ttx> ivoks: well, I'll beat the record of the most boring meeting minutes, that's for sure.
[16:20] <ivoks> ttx: well, it would be a problem if we had something to discuess so late in release process
[16:20] <ttx> I couldn't prepare something funny, I didn't know I would chair this one 30 minutes ago
[16:21] <nealmcb> that was quick....
[16:21]  * ttx hugs nealmcb
[16:21] <nealmcb> :)
[16:21] <sommer> ttx: a horse walks into a bar... and the bartender says why the long face?
[16:21] <ttx> nealmcb: if you have something interesting to add, I'll make sure it makes it to the meeting minutes.
[16:21] <sommer> ttx: that one's always funny :-)
[16:21]  * nealmcb hugs the whole server team (except those that are hug-averse)
[16:22] <jamesrfla> :)
[16:22] <jamesrfla> I did a science fair project on Ubuntu server and got 1st place at science fair
[16:22] <ivoks> yay
[16:23] <nealmcb> I'm still wound up in IDtrust and ElectionAudits and Android work so haven't been finding time for much server team stuff - sorry to say....
[16:23] <nealmcb> jamesrfla: cool - what did you do?
[16:24] <jamesrfla> I benchmarked Ubuntu server edition with apache2 and Windows server 2008 standard with IIS and see how fast they could reply with a response and how many pages it could send at once
[16:25] <jamesrfla> I also got a renewable one year scholarship to my local college along with first place
[16:27] <ivoks> static html?
[16:27] <jamesrfla> For some reason Ubuntu server wouldn't go past 400 clients at once. There was some security thing. Windows server 2008 was able to get up to 3000 clients before giving out errors. For my final results I just tested the servers up to 400 cliesnt
[16:27] <ivoks> er?
[16:27] <jamesrfla> ivoks: I tested too saved web pages. A saved cnet.com page and a picas web album
[16:27] <jamesrfla> ivoks: er?
[16:27] <ivoks> which apache mpm?
[16:28] <jamesrfla> ivoks: mpm?
[16:28] <ivoks> yes, apache has diferent MPM's for diferent loads
[16:29] <nealmcb> i.e. how threads are handled
[16:29] <ivoks> for static html, worker MPM would be better than prefork
[16:29] <ivoks> for php, worker with fastcgi is faster and better for server than prefork
[16:29] <ivoks> prefork just provides some functionality worker doesn't and is easier to set up :)
[16:29] <jamesrfla> Oh yeah I remember now. I tried to configure it so it would go over 400 clients but after a few days trying to get it working and time running out I had to give what I had
[16:30] <jamesrfla> I just got the default apache2 from the repository
[16:30] <ivoks> apache can do over 400 concurent connections without a problem
[16:30] <ivoks> jamesrfla: there are couple of apache2 in repository :)
[16:30] <ivoks> jamesrfla: did you install php5 module?
[16:30] <jamesrfla> ivoks: I did sudo apt-get install apache2
[16:31] <ivoks> ok, that was probably worker
[16:31] <jamesrfla> ivoks: no I didn't. Maybe I should of gone to the #ubuntu-server for help on this. I went to #apache
[16:32]  * jamesrfla hugs the Ubuntu Server team (unless somebody doesn't want to get hugged)
[16:37] <jamesrfla> Cya later Ubuntu server team for now
[20:21] <hggdh> er, well, aren't we late?
[20:24] <Ampelbein> hggdh: 20:00 UTC
[20:24] <Ampelbein> hggdh: andreas@apophis:~$ date -u
[20:24] <Ampelbein> Tue Apr  7 19:24:05 UTC 2009
[20:26] <hggdh> Ampelbein, heh. As usual, got confused by daylight
[20:28] <Ampelbein> yeah, we had the change last week and i was irritated, too. as well were my cats ;-)
[20:31] <charlie-tca> 1/2 hour yet, isn't it?
[20:33] <Ampelbein> true
[20:50] <andol> Ampelbein: Hey, got kind of confused there for a short while, seeing "my" name in a promt like that :)
[20:52] <Ampelbein> andol: ;-)
[20:52] <hggdh> Andreas :-D (almost was my son's name, got the Portuguese version in the end)
[20:53] <andol> Well, I guess it's too good of a name to keep to one self :-)
[21:01] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, Pricey, popey, stgraber, phanatic: POKE :)
[21:01] <forumsmatthew> here
[21:01] <popey> here
[21:01] <phanatic> here
[21:02] <Seveas> Pricey and stgraber both said that they might have problems being on time today, so I suggest we start without them
[21:02] <forumsmatthew> okay
[21:03] <jpds> Isn't it the CC meeting now?
[21:03] <Seveas> LirazSiri, you're up first, please do your 3-line introduction.
[21:03] <Seveas> jpds, no, that's in an hour
[21:03] <LirazSiri> Hi everyone
[21:03] <popey> hmm, fridge says now
[21:04] <Seveas> really?
[21:04] <LirazSiri> I'm from Israel, a member of the news team, the co-founder of TurnKey Linux and an Ubuntu enthusiast all around
[21:04] <popey> mistake Seveas , the wiki says 21:00 UTC
[21:04] <Seveas> pfew
[21:05] <LirazSiri> On the Ubuntu news team I've been involved with UWN
[21:05] <LirazSiri> In charge of 6 sections since issue #126 (we're at issue #137 now), help some minor editing before that.
[21:06] <cody-somerville> Is this the EMEA?
[21:06] <popey> cody-somerville: yes
[21:06] <Seveas> LirazSiri, the mails we received earlier this week worry me. Why are you not cooperating with the team but doing your work independently?
[21:06] <LirazSiri> Seveas: there are time zone differences
[21:07] <Seveas> cooperation does not need to be real-time
[21:08] <LirazSiri> the UWN team is based in Arizona, I'm based in Israel. I've been guided into a role that does does need real-time collaboration. I have been collaborating with the team via Email whenever the need has arised. Most of my work for UWN is very well defined. I asked in advance if working solo would be a problem and the team said no.
[21:08] <popey> LirazSiri: other than the news team and TurnKey, are there other positive ways you've contributed to Ubuntu that we can see?
[21:09] <LirazSiri> Well I don't know if this counts, but I'm the editor for the Ubuntu category on DMOZ
[21:09] <popey> I meant specifically towards the ubuntu project, bug tracking, loco work, answers, forums, wiki edits and so on.
[21:09] <Extend> so i'm not included
[21:09] <Extend> or not yet?
[21:10] <popey> Extend: not yet
[21:10] <Extend> ok how much time ?
[21:10] <popey> Extend: 5 more people before you
[21:10] <Extend> cause i want to go and come back after a short period
[21:10] <charlie-tca> Extend: goes right down the list on the wiki
[21:10] <Seveas> Extend, please wait your turn. We follow the list on the wiki in the order it is now
[21:10] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA see that list Extend
[21:10] <Extend> okay thank you
[21:10] <popey> np
[21:11] <popey> LirazSiri: still there?
[21:11] <forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, I'm not seeing much community involvement outside of the UWN, and with the discomfort your team mates there are feeling at the moment, I'm having trouble seeing how we could consider your membership.
[21:11] <LirazSiri> IMHO, my main contribution to Ubuntu has been as a developer of Ubuntu appliances. I've helped introduce thousands to Ubuntu as a server platform. That's what I've been receiving the strongest positive feedback for from the community.
[21:11] <popey> ok, understood
[21:12] <LirazSiri> my team mates aren't uncomfortable with my contribution, or my work at all
[21:12] <popey> does turnkey have its own community?
[21:12] <LirazSiri> they've testified for me
[21:12] <Seveas> LirazSiri, the mail received yesterday says otherwise. John clearly didn't want to endorse you then but now I see a testimonial. That confuses me
[21:13] <LirazSiri> you guys have to understand that the rest of UWN is very tightly nit geographically. They're all Arizona locals. I guess that's part of the reason I've been viewed as a bit of an outsider. Nobody is questioning my work though.
[21:13] <LirazSiri> Seveas: John has written a testimonial on my behalf on my wiki page.
[21:13] <popey> I don't believe the UWN team works in quite such a black and white manner as you put
[21:13] <Seveas> LirazSiri, yes I see. I find that puzzling and would like to know what made him change his mind
[21:14] <forumsmatthew> FWIW, I am also an Arizona local...
[21:14] <LirazSiri> Seveas: communication
[21:14] <popey> I am inclined to agree with forumsmatthew, I'd like to see a more sustained spread of work through the community
[21:15] <LirazSiri> regarding the TurnKey project, it's an extension of the Ubuntu community
[21:15] <Seveas> well, UWN work is good, but is turnkey a contribution to ubuntu or a 'competitor'?
[21:15] <forumsmatthew> I see a reference to adequacy, not really a stellar endorsement in John's or Kenny's testimonials
[21:15] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, yeah, that's what I read in it as well
[21:15] <LirazSiri> I do some development, but mostly help write documentation, tutorials, answer questions on the forums. None of it is unique to the project.
[21:16] <forumsmatthew> The Turnkey website is nice looking, and it seems like a good project. I'm not sure that is community involvement, but it looks like good stuff.
[21:16] <popey> I'm going -1 for now due to lack of concreate testimonials, and a lack of breadth of work within Ubuntu.
[21:16] <LirazSiri> Seveas: I think you are influenced by the tone in the emails you read before. I think we cleared up the air afterwards
[21:16]  * Pricey tries to catch up
[21:16] <LirazSiri> http://www.turnkeylinux.org/tracker
[21:16] <Pricey> Apologies for being late.
[21:17] <LirazSiri> that's a good way to see the breadth of involvement. We're helping thousands of users with the project.
[21:17] <Seveas> LirazSiri, then why are there no links to said documentation and forum things on your wikipage? How are we supposed to know about them if you don't tell us?
[21:17] <popey> We have quite a few people to get through and a hard time limit chaps
[21:18] <forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, the tracker page shows that you are active in supporting your project. That is great! It doesn't show activity in the greater Ubuntu community.
[21:18] <LirazSiri> Seveas: that's a good point. I was led to believe that because our sister project was not part of the official Ubuntu project it would not be considered. I really don't agree with that, but it led me to downplay that contribution
[21:18] <Seveas> yeah, I'm going for -1 now. Additional contributions should be documented and I want to see a solid endorsement from the UWN team
[21:18] <LirazSiri> Seveas: what is missing in the endorsement in your opinion?
[21:18] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, Pricey, phanatic: a vote please
[21:18] <forumsmatthew> popey is right. We need to move on. I need to -1 for now with a comment to read Seveas comment above
[21:19] <Seveas> LirazSiri, what forumsmatthew said: <forumsmatthew> I see a reference to adequacy, not really a stellar endorsement in John's or Kenny's testimonials
[21:19] <LirazSiri> so you're saying what is lacking is enthusiasm?
[21:19] <Seveas> what is lacking is an actual endorsement
[21:19] <popey> and a breath of work
[21:20] <popey> breadth
[21:20] <popey> why can i never spell that
[21:20] <forumsmatthew> What is lacking is a sense of "wow, this guy is a great asset to the Ubuntu community!!" rather than a "yeah, he's okay."
[21:20] <forumsmatthew> and what they said...
[21:21] <popey> Pricey: ?
[21:21] <LirazSiri> well, what can I say. I've done the work and I consider TurnKey to be a notable achievement, but you are entitled to think otherwise.
[21:21] <Seveas> and phanatic?
[21:21] <popey> LirazSiri: nobody said turnkey wasn't notable
[21:21] <Pricey> Sorry, searching a failing for the email referred to earlier.
[21:21] <phanatic> i haven't read the discussion you all refer to, so i'd stay at 0.
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, the tracker page shows that you are active in supporting your project. That is great! It doesn't show activity in the greater Ubuntu community.
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> That's a quote of what I said earlier.
[21:22] <LirazSiri> the download stats show that there is a huge amount of objective interest from the community. 8000 downloads just last month...
[21:22] <popey> Anyone can sit back and watch a download counter click over
[21:22] <LirazSiri> Many of these people hadn't previously considered Ubuntu as a server platform.
[21:22] <Seveas> Pricey, phanatic: the mail was only sent to popey and myself. I will forward it to you
[21:22] <cody-somerville> LirazSiri, Is there any particular reason you host your own forums instead of integrating with the official Ubuntu forums?
[21:22] <popey> Downloads do not a community make
[21:22] <Pricey> Seveas: aha. makes sense!
[21:23] <LirazSiri> popey: it's not as simple as that. You have to make good stuff and support it for people to be interested
[21:23] <LirazSiri> We don't do any marketing, so people are recommending this to each other by word of mouth after they've used it themselves and have received support on the forums
[21:23] <Seveas> ok, let's move on to the next candidate. LirazSiri let's discuss a bit more tomorrow and see if we can get things cleared up
[21:23] <popey> By all means discuss it with us via mail.
[21:23] <Seveas> knome, you're up, please introduce yourself
[21:23] <LirazSiri> ok guys, thanks for your consideration. ttyl
[21:23] <Pricey> I think we could come to a better conclusion that way yes.
[21:24] <popey> Seveas: no, its ianto next
[21:24] <Seveas> I see no ianto in the nicks in this channel :)
[21:24] <popey> ooo
[21:24] <jpds> ianto isn't around and isn't on Jabber either.
[21:24] <popey> silly rabbit
[21:24] <Seveas> so knome is up :)
[21:24] <Seveas> idle for 2.5 hours, knome when you arrive poke me
[21:24] <Seveas> moving on to tuxlinux
[21:25] <popey> maybe this list isnt as long as I first thought
[21:25] <Seveas> tuxlinux, please introduce yourself
[21:25] <Seveas> also idle for a while. tuxlinux, knome: please be in time for meetings :)
[21:25] <Seveas> andol, are you here?
[21:25]  * andol is here
[21:26] <popey> \o/
[21:26] <Seveas> excellent, please introduce yourself :)
[21:26] <andol> Hello, my name is Andreas
[21:26] <andol> As a computer user I'm very much the system administrator. Besides having it as my profession it is also kind of my primary role in the Swedish Ubuntu LoCo.
[21:26] <andol> Perhaps not suprisingly, most of the bugs I triage are related to the server team.
[21:27] <andol> (Also been doing some general translations)
[21:27] <Seveas> andol, how do ddtp-ubuntu and ddtp in debian cooperate?
[21:28] <andol> Seveas: From what I've understood, there are some exports being done upsteam to Debian.
[21:28] <Nafallo> andol: don't forget to mention your debdiff patches to bugs have been sponsored... :-)
[21:28] <popey> Nafallo: are you here in support of andol ?
[21:28] <Nafallo> popey: can be a quickie if needed. as long as I don't have to IRC from the shower :-)
[21:29] <popey> TMI
[21:29] <Nafallo> he got root on my VPS hosting the ubuntu-se.org and he's quite quick on answering my questions about PHP and such :-)
[21:30] <Nafallo> I do support him.
[21:30] <popey> I'm seeing bugs filed and replied to, albeit not a tremendous amount, and a small amount of translation via launchpad.
[21:30] <andol> popey: Well, I guess I'd say my primary contribution has been in the LoCo.
[21:30] <Nafallo> oh!
[21:30] <Seveas> long time activity in swedish loco (and I have a weak spot for sysadmins) make me lean towards a +1
[21:30] <Nafallo> well worth mentioning is long standing user support in #ubuntu-se :-)
[21:31] <Seveas> but I do feel that loco work could be better supported
[21:31] <Pricey> Do we have anyone else from -se to cheer?
[21:31] <Seveas> s/supported/documented/
[21:31]  * popey points Pricey at Nafallo
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> I see activity over a sustained period of time, and some good testimonials. I'm +1
[21:31]  * Pricey points popey at 'else' :P
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> I liked the last line of the second testimonial on the wiki page
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> "he is always very kind and helpful, a good representative for the Ubuntu spirit"
[21:32] <popey> indeed
[21:32] <phanatic> +1 the others have already explained why :)
[21:32] <Seveas> phanatic, lazy :P
[21:33] <Pricey> ah both of those cheers are from the leaders of the LoCo
[21:33] <popey> that helps
[21:33] <popey> not some random dude like Nafallo ;)
[21:33] <popey> +1
[21:33] <Nafallo> yeah. founder of loco must be a bad one ;-)
[21:34] <Pricey> Yep I'm happy to give +1 too.
[21:34] <Seveas> k, welcome aboard andol!
[21:34] <forumsmatthew> congratulations!
[21:34] <andol> thank you.
[21:34] <Nafallo> Congrats andol!
[21:34] <Seveas> Ampelbein, you're next
[21:34] <popey> Keep up the good work!
[21:34] <iGama> Contratz
[21:34] <Nafallo> andol: you owe me three beers! :-)
[21:34] <Ampelbein> Hi there. I'm Andreas, 29 years old from germany. My regular job is as IT-Supporter/System-operator working from home. I have been active in the community since last year, mostly in bug-triaging, packaging and helping on IRC.
[21:34] <jpds> congrats andol!
[21:34] <Ampelbein> In the field of package upgrades I started with some simple tasks and am now starting to work on more complex packages, like library updates. In bug triaging, I have learned quite a lot on what information is needed for upstream to fix the bugs reported.
[21:34] <tuxlinux> congrats andol
[21:34] <Ampelbein> In the future, I want to be more active in bug fixing and sending upstream, trying to take work away from the developers. Also, I want to continue my journey towards becoming a MOTU. Thanks for your consideration.
[21:35] <Seveas> I like the feedback template thing (and those endorsements as well)
[21:35] <Ampelbein> Seveas: i "borrowed" that from the developer-application-template ;-)
[21:36] <popey> we should use that template!
[21:36] <tcross> Hi.  This is my first time at a meeting and my friends and I were wondering wWhy does ubuntu-server use vim-tiny, and not vim?
[21:36] <popey> tcross: ask in #ubuntu-server :)
[21:36] <Seveas> tcross, this is not the meeting for such questions
[21:36] <tcross> sorry
[21:37] <tcross> will do
[21:37] <popey> I see a lot of development work, would this membership request not be better off going through MOTU?
[21:37] <Seveas> Ampelbein, between september and march I see no uploaded packages. What happened?
[21:37] <Ampelbein> Seveas: little time and a hospital visit.
[21:37] <popey> Wow! Look at all that bug work!
[21:37] <Ampelbein> so i focused on other things
[21:37] <Seveas> fair enough
[21:37] <jpds> Seveas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/DeveloperApplicationTemplate
[21:37] <Ampelbein> which don't take that much time.
[21:38] <Seveas> can you give some examples of advocacy you did?
[21:39] <popey> I'm going to +1 based on great bug work and a testimonial from seb
[21:39] <Ampelbein> sure. whenever i am asked to give some aid in computers I bring a cd of ubuntu to show them, how easy things could go.
[21:39] <Pricey> I'm confused about karma and things on launchpad, 8 translations viewable though a huge amount of translation karma?
[21:39] <Seveas> Ampelbein, ok, last question from me: why take this route towards membership instead of the motu route?
[21:39] <Ampelbein> also, i try to persuade people that having a non-legal copy of windows for business use
[21:40] <Ampelbein> Seveas: i'm not confident i have what it takes to become a MOTU right now.
[21:40] <forumsmatthew> I don't see how I could do anything but give a +1 to someone who is so active in making Ubuntu better, and who has good testimonials.
[21:40] <Ampelbein> need some more learning i thing.
[21:40] <forumsmatthew> MOTU is a great goal, and I hope you pursue it actively
[21:40] <Ampelbein> think. blah.
[21:40] <popey> :)
[21:40] <Seveas> good answer
[21:40] <Seveas> +1 from me
[21:40] <forumsmatthew> even so, I think there is adequate evidence of activity
[21:40] <Ampelbein> Pricey: the karma comes from uploading packages where the upstream translations are imported.
[21:41] <Pricey> Ampelbein: aha. Thanks.
[21:41] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, yeah, evidence good, testimonials ok and plans clear :)
[21:41] <phanatic> +1, hope to see you as a motu soon
[21:41] <Ampelbein> thanks. i'm sure I will ;-)
[21:41] <Pricey> I'll go with a +1 too. The MOTU don't bite though!
[21:42] <Seveas> some of them do...
[21:42] <Pricey> Seveas: you enjoy it.
[21:42] <Ampelbein> thanks for all the positive feedback.
[21:42] <Seveas> ah, I missed forumsmatthew's +1
[21:43] <Seveas> so, you're there, congrats!
[21:43] <forumsmatthew> congratulations!
[21:43] <charlie-tca> Congratulations, Ampelbein
[21:43] <jneves> Ampelbein: congratulations
[21:43] <Ampelbein> thank you very much.
[21:43] <bdmurray> Ampelbein: congrats!
[21:43] <iGama> congratz
[21:43] <phanatic> welcome, Ampelbein
[21:43] <Seveas> Extend, you're next
[21:43] <tuxlinux> congrats Ampelbein
[21:43] <Extend> ok i am ready
[21:43] <Seveas> then please introduce yourself :)
[21:44] <Extend> my name is mohamed zaian , im from egypt alexandria , i work as a linux systems administrator in a large company in middle east
[21:44] <Extend> i started work with unix/linux systems earlier in 2002/2003
[21:45] <Extend> got introduced to FreeBSD by a friend
[21:45] <Seveas> Extend, you're lying on your wikipage: {*} Member of Ubuntu members Launchpad team.
[21:45] <Seveas> that's not true yet ;)
[21:45] <Extend> i worked with FreeBSD many years till 2005/2006 i had many good contributions in the old bsdforums.com and, then
[21:46] <Extend> oh Seveas this is a mistake
[21:46] <Extend> not a lie i can't lie on that
[21:46] <Pricey> Wow 1200 people attended the install fest?!
[21:47] <Extend> yes Pricey
[21:47] <popey> Extend: some nice integration how-tos on your blog - be nice to see them on the documentation wiki
[21:47] <Extend> i can show you the pics
[21:47] <Seveas> Extend, if you read along in the meeting, you know that we value testimonials/endorsements highly. Given that your contributions seem to be limited to the egyptian locoteam, I would like to see some comments from other community members
[21:47] <Extend> popey, i will but u know no much time to do everything but i will do my best
[21:47] <popey> :)
[21:47] <Extend> Seveas, we are having a problem in egypt loco team
[21:47] <Pricey> Extend: can only help
[21:48] <forumsmatthew> I've been reading the EGLUG site (I speak some Arabic...) and am enjoying the mix of languages.
[21:48] <Extend> forumsmatthew, that's nice
[21:48] <Extend> Seveas,
[21:48] <Extend> the admin of the loco team is away
[21:48] <Extend> i talked in #ubuntu-locoteams to jono bacon and nick ali
[21:48] <Extend> we r in talks to change the leaderhsip and to let the guys work
[21:48] <Extend> we have many members and they are active and good
[21:49] <Extend> the loco team channel is dead
[21:49] <Extend> i want to refresh that
[21:49] <Seveas> Extend, the admin being away sure doesn't mean that nobody can comment on your work :)
[21:49] <Extend> if you read the mailing list of our team you you will notice about what im talking about
[21:49] <Seveas> is the mailing list in english? (I do not speak arabic I'm afraid)
[21:49] <Extend> Seveas, yes you are sure
[21:49] <Extend> yes it is in english
[21:50] <forumsmatthew> As I am looking through everything, I think you show a lot of promise. What I would like to see, along with Seveas, are more comments from people who know you and can effectively describe your contributions
[21:50] <Extend> i can help you translate arabic using some tools in ubuntu ;) and on the web
[21:50] <Extend> forumsmatthew, wait i will get some friends here
[21:50] <forumsmatthew> That would be great!
[21:50] <Extend> ok just give me minutes
[21:51] <popey> I can see a lot of enthusiasm, but the launchpad answers work started the same time as membership was applied for, and very little bug work
[21:51] <forumsmatthew> FYI, we need to surrender the channel in just over 5 minutes...
[21:51] <Pricey> Several teams joined on the 4th too.
[21:51] <Extend> popey, u r right i was away and i wasn't learn using launchpad that much
[21:51] <Pricey> Extend: Did you say you had some photos?
[21:51] <Extend> Pricey,  yes give me a moment
[21:52] <popey> I prefer to see a sustained effort over a period of time, before I would say yes to membership.
[21:52] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, we can continue elsewhere if needed :)
[21:52] <Extend> this is the fest page in facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#/pages/Alexandria-Egypt/Linux-Install-Festival-in-Alexandria/50973332573?v=wall&viewas=613900569
[21:53] <Extend> some photos of the fest are here
[21:53] <Extend> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo_search.php?oid=6707385873&view=all
[21:53] <popey> \o/ happy people using ubuntu
[21:54] <Seveas> I'm going for -0 now, Extend you're showing good membership potential, but more documentation and endorsements would be very welcome
[21:54] <Extend> popey, we r getting more ppl
[21:54] <Extend> Seveas, i don't know what to say
[21:54] <Extend> thank you :)
[21:54] <popey> I too will go 0, because I can see you're enthusiastic and clearly want to contribute to your loco, but would like to see a more sustained effort
[21:54] <phanatic> Seveas: +0 looks better :)
[21:54] <Extend> http://www.eglug.org/node/3154 this was from the bib alex sessions
[21:54] <Seveas> Extend, just say that you'll continue to do good work, and that you'll fix up your wikipage and come back in 2 months ;)
[21:55] <popey> maybe come back after 3 months?
[21:55] <popey> 2.5 months :)
[21:55] <Seveas> :-)
[21:55] <Extend> i will continue my work whatever happens from you guys
[21:55] <Extend> cause i love to do that
[21:55] <Seveas> ok
[21:55] <forumsmatthew> Yeah, me too. +0. I think you show great potential and I want you to come back with more evidence to help us gauge your activity, and some testimonials
[21:55] <popey> Awesome!
[21:55] <Pricey> I think I'm going to go -1 sorry. I would agree with the others that I think we would like to see a more sustatined contribution, and get some people cheering for you (as well as photos!)
[21:55] <Extend> and it some kind of love to this world
[21:55] <Extend> Pricey,  i posted the photos link
[21:56] <Extend> here it is http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo_search.php?oid=6707385873&view=all
[21:56] <Seveas> CC is moving into this channel now. Pricey phanatic popey forumsmatthew jneves hggdh (and those who want to join), please come to #ubuntu-emea-meeting for the rest of the EMEA meeting of today
[21:56] <Pricey> #ubuntu-emea-meeting
[21:56] <popey> ooo
[21:56] <Seveas> elmo, the floor is yours ;)
[21:56]  * popey picks up his glass and coaster, and shuffles over to #ubuntu-emea-meeting
[21:57] <forumsmatthew> I hope the CC has a great meeting...I'm heading off to #ubuntu-emea-meeting
[21:57] <Extend> so i'm done?
[21:58] <popey> yes
[21:58] <Extend> thanks
[21:59] <Technoviking> afternoon all
[22:01] <Technoviking> anyone else here for the CC meeting?
[22:01]  * elmo is
[22:02] <elmo> we seem to be under represented by CC people though
[22:03] <Technoviking> don't think there is anything on the agenda, since we finish the FC votes.
[22:04] <elmo> yep
[22:04] <elmo> anyone with any other business?
[22:05] <elmo> (otherwise I think we may as well nix this particular meeting)
[22:05] <Technoviking> I love a smooth running community:)
[22:06] <elmo> yeah!  well done community for not needing governance!  ;-)  (or at least, not our governance)
[22:07] <Technoviking> ok, neet meeting will be in two weeks, then it is time for Jaunty love!!!
[22:08] <cody-somerville> lol
[22:20] <mako> hi
[22:20] <mako> i guess i missed that :)
[22:21] <Seveas> you didn't miss much :)
[22:21] <mako> apparently not :)
[22:23] <Extend> !ping


[14:35] <mup> Issue operator#844 opened: Better Error Handling if the pebble socket goes missing <Created by jameinel> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/844>


[19:16] <robinvdv> I was following the steps I need to take for my bug and now I reached step 4: ask the Ubuntu bug control team to nominate the bug for the appropriate Ubuntu release
[19:17] <robinvdv> The document said I could do this for example in this IRC chat
[19:17] <robinvdv> This is the bug I am talking about: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1510237
[21:26] <phillw> hi, any bug masters about for a query on sources.list in  the server / alternate xenial ISOs ?


[15:39] <CarstenG> Hi Hannie
[15:39] <hannie> hey CarstenG
[15:40] <hannie> CarstenG, would you like me to test your new script or is the Greek test sufficient?
[15:40] <CarstenG> I just saw your email about Natilus / Files.
[15:40] <hannie> CarstenG, yes, I was just going to answer vibhav on Nautilus 3.6
[15:41] <hannie> What do you think of Nautilus 3.6?
[15:41] <CarstenG> I think, you can drop a marginnote about this change, but I would not write a whole section for downgrading to 3.4. I think we should describe the current situation...
[15:42] <godbyk> hannie: Since the manual is primarily for people just starting to use Ubuntu, I think it'd be too confusing to say, 'Here's how the file manager works. But this one stinks and you should install this other one instead.'  I think we're better off just documenting the default file manager.
[15:42] <godbyk> CarstenG: Your script is pretty awesome. Nicely done!
[15:42] <CarstenG> Kevin, this is also my point.
[15:42] <hannie> hi godbyk
[15:43] <hannie> I am chewing on your comment right now
[15:43] <CarstenG> Thanks, :-) I will improve it further, I just know about some minor bugs...
[15:43] <godbyk> Also, sabdfl just approved this feature-freeze exception: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1154229
[15:43] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 1154229 in unity-scope-gdrive "[FFE] New Unity stack" [Undecided,Triaged]
[15:43] <godbyk> So we'll have to keep an eye on that.It looks like it'll be landing quite late, unfortunately.
[15:45] <CarstenG> grml... I thought is was set to "wont fix"...
[15:45] <godbyk> CarstenG: Me, too. I'm getting a bit irked about this huge features that are shoehorned in at the last moment.
[15:46] <godbyk> It makes our job quite difficult.
[15:46] <godbyk> It takes us time to learn how these new features work so we can document and describe them.
[15:46] <godbyk> And then we have to wait even longer for them to finish fiddling with the UI so we can take screenshots.
[15:47] <godbyk> With this one, they say the *goal* is to have everything ready by 25 March.
[15:47] <godbyk> Whether it'll actually be ready by then is anyone's guess.
[15:50] <godbyk> I'll be back in a bit.
[15:58] <CarstenG> Hannie: To your first question. Yes, it would be nice, if you could test the script.
[16:00] <hannie> CarstenG, ok I will test and let you know the results
[16:01] <CarstenG> Gret :-)
[16:01] <CarstenG> Great. :-)
[16:01] <hannie> ....and, I have some rewriting for Nautilus to do
[16:06] <CarstenG> my script has lower priority, so don't feel constrained to test it.
[16:06] <hannie> oh, no, I am reading the script email right now
[16:08] <hannie> I will use 12.04, which is fully translated
[16:18] <hannie> CarstenG, I do not see any \input{} command in ubuntu-manual.tex. I do see \include{frontmatter/copyright} etc.
[16:19] <hannie> You write: Move any \input command after the \begin{document}, e.g. the
[16:19] <hannie> \input{frontmatter/glossary-entries}.
[16:21] <hannie> oops, I was wrong (didn't wear my glasses :))
[16:21] <CarstenG> mmmh, in my ubuntu-manual.tex from precise-e2 I have a \input{}
[16:21] <CarstenG> :-D
[16:22] <hannie> And of course I should use find
[16:25] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[16:26] <hannie> CarstenG, one remark though: the \input is not after, but BEFORE the \begin{document} command. But the replacement should be AFTER the \begin{document} I suppose.
[16:27] <CarstenG> Yes, you are right.
[16:27] <hannie> oki, I am going to test it now.
[16:38] <hannie> CarstenG, executing ./update_po_files_with_LP_links.sh en.po > output = "grep: en.po : file or folder does not exist.
[16:38] <hannie> Should I use nl.po instead of en.po?
[16:38] <CarstenG> sure
[16:39] <CarstenG> this was only as example :-)
[16:39] <hannie> ah, I am a dummy ;)
[16:39] <CarstenG> I should mention it :-)
[16:39] <hannie> I have back-uped nl.po, just in case
[16:39] <CarstenG> good.
[16:40] <CarstenG> The script will also create a backup called "nl.po-backup"
[16:40] <hannie> yes, I read that. Good precaution
[16:41] <hannie> Ha, it works!
[16:43] <hannie> All index enties in nl.po > should be "entries"?
[16:45] <CarstenG> yes.
[16:46] <hannie> Go out of the /po directory and do a
[16:46] <hannie>   $ make ubuntu-manual-en.pdf > not from the /po, but from /Projects/precise-e2 (in my case anyhow)
[16:46] <hannie> sorry, it was ok
[16:47] <CarstenG> yes, this I mean with "go out of the /po directory"
[16:47] <hannie> glasses, Hannie, wear your glasses ):
[16:47] <CarstenG> means "cd .."
[16:50] <hannie> CarstenG, the links are ok, but some of them show on top of the text
[16:50] <hannie> []Een gebruiker aanpassen
[16:50] <hannie> []Klik op een naam
[16:52] <CarstenG> Yes, this is because I write the links "to the left"... They should not influence the layout...
[16:53] <hannie> Most of the links show "to the left", but others show over the existing text in the pdf
[16:55] <CarstenG> Well, the links do not know, if there is some other text...
[16:55] <hannie> Also, over bullets, instead of to the left of bullets
[16:55] <CarstenG> one moment, I test something
[16:57] <hannie> I see the same in the German example. But as a whole it is a pretty piece of work. Well done!
[17:00] <CarstenG> Thanks.
[17:01] <hannie> It really works! I will surely use it for the next Dutch translation.
[17:01] <CarstenG> You should keep in mind, that this is for proofreading, not for printing the document :-)
[17:02] <hannie> CarstenG, I was just a bit picky. It is (almost) perfect ;)
[17:04] <CarstenG> picky comments are always welcome, I’m also picky.
[17:04] <CarstenG> sometimes :-)
[17:05] <hannie> I think you can consider it ready for use.
[17:06] <hannie> For stupid readers like me, the instructions can do with a bit of clarifying.
[17:07] <CarstenG> Ok, I will keep it in mind for an update. :-)
[17:07] <hannie> e.g.: Go out of the /po directory and do a
[17:07] <hannie>   $ make ubuntu-manual-en.pdf
[17:07] <hannie> > en = your own language
[17:07] <hannie> And thanks for the work you did. See you.
[17:08] <CarstenG> If you want you can remove the optional arguments »[0cm][r]«of \makebox in the \newcommand ...
[17:09] <CarstenG> ... then you will get no links over the other text...


[00:21] <cpnangil> howdy
[00:23] <cpnangil> hows it going?
[00:24] <rick_h> reading http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=2&hp
[00:29] <cpnangil> pretty interesting
[00:32] <snap-l> thttp://magnatune.com/artists/albums/saros-labyrinth/
[00:32] <snap-l> Bah, http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/saros-labyrinth/
[00:33] <snap-l> Good soundtrack-ish music
[00:36] <cpnangil> Where is everyone from?
[00:36] <snap-l> Michigan. :)
[00:37] <snap-l> Most of us are from the Metro-Detroit area.
[00:39] <brousch> grand rapids
[00:47] <cpnangil> im close to waterford
[00:47] <cpnangil> lotus lake
[00:47] <rick_h> cool, I'm not far from there
[00:48] <cpnangil> we have a small island here on the lake
[00:48] <cpnangil> about 2.5 acres
[00:50] <cpnangil> whewre are you rick_h
[00:50] <brousch> you live on an island?
[00:51] <rick_h> cpnangil: in clarkston
[00:51] <cpnangil> its a small island in lotus lake yep brousch
[00:51] <brousch> that is cool
[00:53] <cpnangil> its a perfect getaway in paradise but its still close enough to everything
[01:05] <llua> detroit
[03:27] <snap-l> Just watched Star Wars Uncut
[03:27] <snap-l> Some very good moments
[03:27] <snap-l> and some incredibly strange moments
[03:32] <brousch> snap-l++
[14:41] <snap-l> g'morning
[14:42] <rick_h> party
[14:42] <snap-l> Apparently according to some of our blog spam, you can stroke a cat witout being expected to have sex.
[14:42] <snap-l> wise words.
[15:19] <brousch> well then i was lied to
[19:37] <snap-l> Working on the next OMC
[19:37] <snap-l> brousch: You'll be happy with this one
[19:37] <snap-l> no new artists, no new albums
[19:37] <snap-l> It's called "Catchup, Must've Heard, and Relish"
[21:12] <greg-g> too much red! http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByFlight.do;jsessionid=C091D4FD377FFCAC2B2C3D6A62028FEA.web2:8009?id=252479596&airlineCode=CO&flightNumber=5437
[21:13] <rick_h> ouch
[21:14] <greg-g> yeah
[21:38] <greg-g> Status: Scheduled - Delayed 215 minutes
[21:38] <greg-g> getting worse!
[21:40] <rick_h_droid> double ouch
[21:42] <rick_h_droid> man 3+, hours? what happened?
[21:43] <tjagoda> The first weeks of programming classes always suck
[21:44] <greg-g> weather, apparently
[21:44] <tjagoda> "Do this incredibly simple task 5 times, but you cannot use loops"
[21:57] <rick_h_droid> interesting, no loops allowed eh?
[21:57] <rick_h_droid> do this thing you'd never do lol
[22:05] <Blazeix> heh, reminds me of my little brother's class in programming. he had to do something to the numbers 1 through 10, so he used a for loop.
[22:05] <Blazeix> the professor took off points because they hadn't learned for loops yet; he was supposed to use a while loop
[22:06] <tjagoda> The questions say "using only the topics covered in class."
[22:06] <tjagoda> So I can use if's, but not elses
[22:06] <tjagoda> and definitely no elsifs
[22:07] <tjagoda> and definitely not loops
[22:07] <greg-g> wow
[22:07] <greg-g> definitely not a fan of personalized learning, eh?
[22:07] <tjagoda> Negative
[22:08] <tjagoda> I added comments in the code about how much easier it would be with loops.
[22:09] <Blazeix> this is when you can get creative, and use tail recursion :)
[22:10] <rick_h_droid> Hah, no loops but break out the recursion
[22:15] <tjagoda> Had to remember how modulus worked
[22:16] <tjagoda> for separating integers off of a 5 digit number
[22:16] <tjagoda> bastards mixing math in my programming =P
[22:16] <rick_h> hah
[22:16] <tjagoda> Should've put the solution in using regular expressions but just commented it all out
[22:17] <tjagoda> definitely not used to Java's strange case sensitivity rules though
[22:17] <tjagoda> System.out.println being valid where system.out.println is invalid and etc
[22:20] <greg-g> more Rowan photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/tags/rowan/
[22:20] <greg-g> :)
[22:21] <rick_h_droid> Woot! I someone miss the little guy this weekend?
[22:22] <greg-g> a lot
[22:25] <rick_h_droid> Hah looks like dad's making great use of the bjorn
[22:27] <greg-g> oh yeah, that's Dad's job
[22:28] <greg-g> is the 49ers game on? twitter is down.
[22:30] <tjagoda> Man
[22:30] <tjagoda> that greg-g guy, looks like such a hippy
[22:30] <rick_h_droid> not yet greg-g
[22:30] <tjagoda> hippie*
[22:30] <tjagoda> He's just hiding the baby's tie-dye jumpsuit from the rest of us.
[22:34] <greg-g> :)
[22:35] <jjesse> no 49ers hasn't started yet 6:30pm EST
[22:36] <tjagoda> Joe Brockmeier says grandchildren are CaaS.
[22:36] <tjagoda> Children as a Service.
[22:36] <greg-g> harder to scale up, though
[22:37] <tjagoda> NetBeans makes me angry.
[22:37] <greg-g> use vim
[22:37] <tjagoda> Forced to use NetBeans as well. =(
[22:38] <greg-g> forced? how can they tell? What do you submit?
[22:38] <tjagoda> Or, well, "Strongly encouraged"
[22:38]  * greg-g nods
[22:38] <tjagoda> You zip the netbeans generated project directory
[22:38] <tjagoda> And send it off through the intertubes.
[22:47] <brousch> i can't believe netbeans is still around
[22:48] <tjagoda> I cant believe that they require me to take Java =P
[22:51] <brousch> get annew school
[22:52] <Blazeix> we were just talking about netbeans at CHC detroit. apparently it isn't terrible now
[22:53] <brousch> it's owned by oracle, so i find that nearly impossible to believe
[22:53] <brousch> actually it was nice when i last used it in 2006
[23:12] <tjagoda> Our new ERP system runs on Oracle.
[23:14] <snap-l> tjagoda: I hope you got a nice lunch out of the deal
[23:15] <tjagoda> The system itself is quite good despite the pain and suffering it runs on.
[23:21] <tjagoda> I need to learn a language to a solid degree, and then write a CMS system specifically designed for IT
[23:21] <tjagoda> Because I want one and nothing that exists suits my needs
[23:23] <brousch> you've tried them all?
[23:23] <tjagoda> I haven't found one which wasn't geared for mostly sales thusfar
[23:26] <snap-l> And you've written a CMS in the past?
[23:28] <tjagoda> I have written absolutely zero in the past.
[23:29] <tjagoda> Are you insinuating that my complete and utter lack of experience will obstruct my product of perfection?! =P
[23:40] <rick_h> anyone on G+? do you see me hosting a hangout?
[23:41] <rick_h> I can't figure out the difference between a hangout with extras and a normal one as far as visibility
[23:41] <Blazeix> rick_h: no, i don't see you hosting one
[23:41] <rick_h> bah
[23:43] <rick_h> ok, so if you do with extras it seems you have to invite via email/chat
[23:43] <rick_h> and can't just "be hanging out"


[04:20] <thomi> lifeless: mind if I ask you a python-testscenarios question on your day off?
[04:20] <thomi> I'm sure the problem is staring me right in the face, but I can't see what would cause this to fail like it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/945125/
[04:20] <lifeless> shoot
[04:21] <lifeless> what test runner are you using ?
[04:21] <thomi> nosetests
[04:21] <lifeless> don't
[04:21] <thomi> oh?
[04:22] <lifeless> nosetests isn't unittest compatible
[04:22] <lifeless> it violates the unittest protocol.
[04:22] <lifeless> it makes assumptions about structure and intent that the protocol doesn't, which work most of the time
[04:23] <lifeless> you could file a bug on nosetests if you like
[04:23] <thomi> Oh! That surprises me. Thanks, I never thought to try another runner...
[04:23] <thomi> will do...
[04:23] <lifeless> thomi: try
[04:23] <lifeless> python -m testtools.run discover .
[04:23] <thomi> yay, that works - thanks :)
[04:24] <lifeless> for jenkins you can use python -m subunit.run discover . | subunit2junitxml -o tests.xml
[04:24] <thomi> cheers
[04:33] <thomi> hmmm, I just realised that we use the '--with-pylons' option to nosetests, so I may have to get a bit creative... :)
[19:46] <snail> morning
[19:48] <ajmitch> morning
[19:57] <hads> morning
[19:57] <hads> How odd, clicking a mailto link in chromium all of a sudden opens 59 tabs in arora browser.
[19:58] <chilts> morning
[20:27] <hads> Oh well, restarting my session fixed it. Needed to boot into some updates anyway.
[20:33] <Atamira> morning
[20:39] <snail> could i get a second opinion? I've been told to submit a bug report at http://sourceforge.net/p/teiboilerplate/tickets/ but can't find the "submit a bug here" link. Am I going blind or just confused by the new look and feel?
[20:42] <chilts> wow, sourceforge :)
[20:42] <chilts> snail: you might nee to login?
[20:42]  * chilts has no idea, but yeah, it doesn't seem to be there
[20:43] <snail> chilts: yeah, but there's no button obvious even after login, i think maybe it's project members only or something
[20:43] <chilts> oh really ok
[20:43] <chilts> that's pretty sad
[20:45] <snail> chilts: yep :)
[20:46] <ajmitch>  that would make no sense
[20:47] <snail> I've asked on #sourceforge, so I can give good feedback to the project admins
[20:47] <ajmitch> about the only thing I see that changes when I log in is that I can subscribe to the tool :)
[20:53] <snail> good folks in #sourceforge gave me the wording to give to the newbie developers to fix this.
[20:54] <chilts> ah cool
[22:01] <kcj> Morning.
[22:03] <mwhudson> morning
[22:16] <Guest40535> morning
[22:17] <ojwb> morning
[22:18] <ojwb> snail: looks like they've fixed that bug tracker
[22:18] <ojwb> there's now a "create ticket" button on the left
[22:19] <snail> ojwb: yes, I've filed a bug on the tracker about it and closed it as fixed
[22:19] <ojwb> ok


[00:01] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses ah I know how to get rid of the duplicate image itemd in Testdrive now. Thx!
[00:02] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, :)
[02:32] <tacorwin_> I know its late, but is anyone on that i could report a bug to?
[02:39] <TheDrums> You can always report bugs to the bug tracker.
[02:39] <TheDrums> !bugs
[02:47] <tacorwin_> Thank you. :)
[06:42] <dholbach> good morning
[06:51] <jibel> good morning
[07:02] <pitti> bonjour jibel
[07:05] <jibel> bonjour pitti , ça va ?
[07:07] <pitti> jibel: ça va bien, merci!
[07:07] <zyga> good morning
[07:08] <pitti> jibel: some bumps from training yesterday, we practiced self-defense again
[07:08] <pitti> jibel: je me demande pourquoi autant de autopkgtests sont cassé
[07:09] <jibel> pitti, ENOSPACE
[07:09] <pitti> oh :)
[07:09] <jibel> pitti, I did some cleanup, and will restart them
[07:09] <pitti> jibel: merci
[07:09] <pitti> jibel: is there something leaking, or is it just due to the accumulation of logs?
[07:09] <jibel> pitti, do we need libpam-systemd on the jhbuild machine ?
[07:10] <pitti> jibel: I installed it so that e. g. polkit properly detects that it should use logind
[07:10] <pitti> it's a bit of a workaround
[07:10] <pitti> but I can apply a different workaround, if it gets in the way
[07:10] <jibel> pitti, ah ok, because installation fails
[07:10] <pitti> yeah, apparently it cannot mount the cgroup in the container
[07:10] <jibel> service systemd-logind fails to start
[07:11] <pitti> not sure why, it's something I've been meaning to ask stgraber
[07:11] <jibel> yeah, cgroup inside cgroup
[07:11] <pitti> yeah, it doesn't matter; the configure check actually only checks for /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd/
[07:11] <stgraber> pitti: yes?
[07:12] <pitti> stgraber: in our jhbuild container, mounting a cgroup fails; is this expected?
[07:12] <stgraber> is that on 13.04?
[07:12] <pitti> guest is 13.04, host is (I guess) precise, checking
[07:13] <stgraber> oh, actually I think we may be rejecting this in apparmor in all cases. It's just that in 13.04 we made it slightly better when you're doing nesting
[07:14] <stgraber> pitti: anyway, yes, mounting cgroups in a container is considered unsafe as it lets you adjust the container's restriction from within
[07:14] <stgraber> pitti: if you don't care about this, it's easy to enable cgroups in a custom apparmor profile
[07:14] <pitti> that means we can't run logind in a container
[07:14] <pitti> stgraber: host is 12.10, guest is 13.04
[07:15] <pitti> $ sudo mount -t cgroup -o nosuid,noexec,nodev,none,name=systemd systemd /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd
[07:15] <pitti> mount: block device systemd is write-protected, mounting read-only
[07:15] <pitti> mount: cannot mount block device systemd read-only
[07:15] <pitti> ah, indeed
[07:15] <pitti> apparmor="DENIED" operation="mount" info="failed type match" error=-13 parent=104752 profile="lxc-container-default" name="/sys/fs/cgroup/systemd/" pid=104821 comm="mount" fstype="cgroup" srcname="systemd" flags="ro, nosuid, nodev, noexec"
[07:15] <stgraber> pitti: ok, that specific mount should be safe (as it mounts an empty cgroup), let me come up with an apparmor pattern that matches that one exactly
[07:16] <pitti> stgraber: i. e. it should be okay to mount new groups, but not change existing ones?
[07:17] <stgraber> pitti: well, the problem is that if you use a cgroup controller like "blkio", then it's going to always be shared, and we clearly don't want that
[07:17] <stgraber> for those we have a lxc hook you can add (starting with 13.04) which bind-mounts just the right sub-directories of the cgroup
[07:17] <pitti> stgraber: ah, sure; I wasn't sure whether cgroups can nest in principle
[07:18] <stgraber> anyway, the specific case of systemd should be safe, I'll just confirm that and come up with an extra apparmor rule to cover it
[07:20] <stgraber> pitti: gah, no it's not safe...
[07:20] <stgraber> pitti: I tried mounting the cgroup in two containers and can see the entry I create in one in the other
[07:21] <pitti> stgraber: I'll ask Lennart about that; he mentioned this topic (systemd/logind in containers) the other day, maybe he has an ide
[07:21] <pitti> a
[07:21] <pitti> anyway, it's not urgent for now, but this will become a topic in squishy
[07:21] <stgraber> so in theory we could use the same magic as for other cgroups
[07:22] <stgraber> which is to create "lxc/$container-name" in the cgroup on the host and then bind-mount just the sub-directory in the container
[07:22]  * stgraber quickly checks we don't actually already do that on 13.04
[07:24] <stgraber> pitti: we do!
[07:25] <pitti> nice!
[07:25] <pitti> stgraber: so upgrading the host to 13.04 should do it?
[07:25] <stgraber> pitti: yep, upgrading the host to 13.04, make sure the systemd cgroup is mounted on the host and add "lxc.hook.mount = /usr/share/lxc/hooks/mountcgroups" to the container config
[07:26] <pitti> so 13.10 on 13.10 should by and large work, except for this ^ config bit
[07:27] <stgraber> yep, which we may end up doing by default by then (I can't think of any security issue with it, so we may as well do it by default for distros that use logind)
[07:27] <pitti> splendid; thanks stgraber!
[07:27] <stgraber> np, glad to see our very recent cgroup magic actually works as intended ;)
[07:31] <jibel> pitti, I finish the notifications today then we can upgrade the host to 13.04. In any case, it will be a good test a week before the release.
[07:31] <pitti> jibel: it's not urgent right now, but if you want to do the upgrade anyway, sure
[14:45] <SergioMeneses> morning!
[14:56] <chilicuil> morning SergioMeneses
[14:57] <balloons> morning chilicuil and SergioMeneses
[14:57] <chilicuil> ~.~/ balloons
[14:57] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, balloons hey hey, how's everything?
[15:02] <balloons> SergioMeneses, pretty good.. Working on expanding out the stats I showed yesterday to make them clearer and show more stuff :)
[15:15] <balloons> I saw your post in Spanish SergioMeneses .. I hope you encourage some more spanish speaking folks to give things a try
[15:16] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Or rather, since the passage is dedicated to us, he should have made an English translation:P
[15:18] <SergioMeneses> balloons, :) I hope so
[15:18] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, aaah
[15:22] <balloons> smartboyhw_, lolol
[15:23] <smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses, lolol
[15:23]  * balloons is waiting for a chinese post from smartboyhw_
[15:24] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Sure, but wait for a century please;P
[15:24] <balloons> a century?
[15:25] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Yep:P
[15:27] <SergioMeneses> balloons, totally agree jeje
[15:27] <balloons> updates for everyone in a 1 min
[15:28] <smartboyhw_> balloons: What update?
[15:38] <smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: What sort of update you guess will balloons bring?
[15:40] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, I have no idea! maybe the chars or something in his blog
[15:40] <SergioMeneses> but I dont know
[15:46] <balloons> :-) http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[15:46] <balloons> I added the other tracker stats :-)
[15:47] <smartboyhw_> balloons \o/
[15:48] <smartboyhw_> balloons: The new stats are the package testing and laptop testing ones right?
[15:48] <balloons> yea.. I subtitled everything too to make it easier to understand I hope
[15:48] <smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: The Laptop Testing Team is happy now eh? ^^
[15:49] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, balloons :O
[15:49] <SergioMeneses> awesome! balloons great work!
[15:50] <SergioMeneses> laptop testing is working pretty hard!
[15:52] <SergioMeneses> btw, balloons where do you get this information?
[15:53] <balloons> SergioMeneses, all this information is from public data sources.. launchpad, bzr and the various trackers
[15:54] <balloons> does everything make more sense now? that is, do the graphs make sense? do the subtitles help?
[15:54] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Do one flavour for me: Package the QA Tracker APIs for me in S-cycle:P
[15:54] <smartboyhw_> balloons: It works perfectly!
[15:55] <balloons> smartboyhw_, the tracker api is in python http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/api
[15:55] <balloons> you could even use it to submit results :-)
[15:55] <SergioMeneses> balloons, I see everything perfect! maybe a nice post that would be nice
[15:56] <balloons> imagine a testdrive client that you could browse a testcase and have it pull the image, start and display the testcase for you to run, and let you submit a pass/fail after :-)
[15:56] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Whoa!
[15:56]  * SergioMeneses dreams
[15:56] <smartboyhw_> That's a S or T cycle target
[15:59] <balloons> you all have the skills now.. but yea, the api has enough stuff you could conceivably write a desktop client for it
[15:59] <balloons> I'm not sure it makes sense (aka, a whole client) because the site is already there and works well :-)
[15:59] <balloons> but integration pieces are interesting perhaps
[21:17] <phillw> balloons: I look forward to learning about lxc. I feel it may be another tool in the testing armoury to add to Vbox and KVM (although the testdrive people will possibly hate me :D )
[21:17] <balloons> lxc is quite nice
[21:18] <balloons> juju uses it
[21:18] <phillw> I'd never heard of it. I only looked it up because it began 'lx' which is often an lxde associated item :)
[21:20] <Noskcaj> what is lxc? and what will it make testdrive people(e.g. me) angry?
[21:20] <phillw> oh, and while you're here. I will be sending an 'old fashioned' update for the lubuntu encrypted alternate test case as it should also include the "write the pass phrase down"
[21:21] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:22] <phillw> Noskcaj: sorry, the ^^ was for balloons, the link for you is http://lxc.sourceforge.net/
[21:22] <Noskcaj> ok, thanks
[21:23] <balloons> phillw, gonna get a commit in?
[21:23] <balloons> :-) :-) :-)
[21:23] <Noskcaj> also, i'm adding an extra bug to testdrive, very minor
[21:24] <balloons> Noskcaj, in a nutshell lxc is a virtual container for running linux on linux
[21:24] <phillw> balloons: nope, I'm going to send you the file :P
[21:25] <balloons> it's more lightweight than running a full vm, but has it's own limitations of course
[21:25] <balloons> phillw, you know I have a new goal now
[21:26] <phillw> all vm's have limitations, but I see no reason for it not to be added to our options for testing 13.10 :)
[21:26] <balloons> help you get a commit
[21:27] <balloons> xephyr is cool too.. since I got it support
[21:28] <Noskcaj> balloons, lolwut? even that hurts my brain.
[21:28] <balloons> it always you to run an xserver as a window in an existing xserver
[21:28] <balloons> wow.. I don't know what's going on..
[21:28] <balloons> brain and keyboard are disconnected
[21:28] <balloons> zzzzz
[21:28] <phillw> balloons: only when I have time to upgrade to 13.04 and copy a lot of  http://mgjuddltd.co.uk/ to http://demo.oscommerce.com/ as the sponsor of my dedicated server now wishes to be able to sell on-line. That will take some doing, but it has been agreed that it will not start until after 13.04 is released.
[21:29] <balloons> you don't run precise on your server
[21:29] <balloons> ?
[21:30] <phillw> I get sponsorship, but in return, I give my time freely for any support / dev stuff that company needs.
[21:31] <phillw> I use 12.10 on piglet. I want to upgrade to 13.04. On my 2nd Hard Drive, I run CentOS 6.4 which is the same as my server. This means I can do the dev work on piglet before committing to the server :)
[21:31] <balloons> ahh
[21:32] <balloons> I'm switching providers at the end of the month
[21:32] <phillw> But, starting such a thing this close to 13.04 release would be too big a task. The sponsor fully understands that.
[21:33] <phillw> balloons: you could do a lot worse than kimsufi, if you are happy to manage your own dedicated server.
[21:34] <balloons> can't beat free.. you know that :-)
[21:36] <phillw> indeed :)
[22:22] <phillw> I love dead-lines, in fact, the best thing about dead-lines is the wooshing sound that they make as they fly past me :D