[04:55] <ectospasm> so, I rebooted and neither of my upstart jobs started.  One I forgot to modify (it had both "start on startup" and "start on runlevel [2345]"), but the other just had "start on runlevel [2345]".  I'm using Ubuntu 10.10.
[07:52] <ivoks> ectospasm: is 'start your_upstart_job' working?
[07:53] <ectospasm> ivoks: for one, yes
[07:54] <ivoks> the second one?
[07:54] <ivoks> that had only 'start on runlevel [2345]'?
[07:56] <ectospasm> yep
[07:57] <ectospasm> It's like I haven't run update-rc.d (if upstart has an equivalent)
[08:05] <ivoks> so...
[08:06] <ivoks> you do know what 'start on runlevel [2345]' means?
[08:06] <ivoks> are you sure you want to start at that point?
[08:07] <ectospasm> I want the service to start whenever the system starts in multi-user mode, which I assume is [2345]
[08:07] <ivoks> maybe you'd rather want to start when you have filesystems
[08:08] <ectospasm> maybe so
[08:08] <ivoks> or network
[08:08] <ectospasm> both, actually
[08:08] <ectospasm> Maybe upstart is trying to start it too soon?
[08:08] <ivoks> well, you told it to :)
[08:08] <ectospasm> I'm beginning to realize that now.
[08:08] <ivoks> take a look at ssh
[08:08] <ivoks> 'start on filesystem'
[08:09] <ivoks> you are starting your service at the same time as ttys :)
[08:09] <ectospasm> OK, I need network, is there the equivalent of "start on network"?
[08:09] <ivoks> yes
[08:10] <ivoks> start on (startup
[08:10] <ivoks>            and filesystem
[08:10] <ivoks>            and started networking)
[08:10] <ectospasm> hmmmm
[08:11] <ectospasm> If this is in the available documentation I totally missed it.
[08:11] <ivoks> don't tell anyone, but upstart is a secret project :)
[08:11] <ivoks> there's no documentation :)
[08:12] <ectospasm> I did notice how a lot has been deprecated in an old version already (-;
[08:14] <ivoks> start on filesystem
[08:15] <ivoks> that should be enough, if the service is listening on <IP_ADDRESS>
[08:16] <ivoks> if that doesn't work, you can make it start on started networking
[08:16] <ectospasm> ivoks: not that easy
[08:16] <ivoks> no?
[08:16] <ectospasm> it's essentially a headless VM running in a screen session
[08:16] <ivoks> eh :)
[08:16] <ivoks> have fun :)
[08:16] <ectospasm> it otherwise works.
[08:17] <ectospasm> I was looking for a way to start a service without all the cruft the debian init.d system requires
[08:17] <ectospasm> and rc.local just felt wrong
[08:17] <ivoks> and too easy? :)
[08:24] <ectospasm> ivoks: too hacky (-;
[08:43] <rehch011> hello can someone tell me where i can find the upstart script directory in ubuntu 10.10
[08:45] <ectospasm> rehch011: /etc/init/
[08:49] <rehch011> thx
[13:13] <rehch011> how is it possible to change the runlevel with ubuntu 10.10 resp. upstart?#
[14:04] <rehch011> kann jemand von euch einen vergleich zwischen upstart und sysvinit aufstellen?
[14:04] <rehch011> can any of you set up a comparison between the upstart and sysvinit?
[14:05] <mbiebl> rehch011: you need to ask more targetted questions
[14:14] <rehch011> How, for example, the runlevels managed.


[08:04] <dpm> good morning all
[08:08] <andrejz> good morning dpm
[08:14] <dpm> morning andrejz
[08:30] <RawChid> Good morning
[08:32] <andrejz> morning RawChid
[13:10] <serfus> there is Bug #784843 but i can't find the word archive anywhere, not in launchpad and not when i bzr-ed soundconverter
[13:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 784843 in soundconverter (Ubuntu) "translation issue [Swedish] (affects: 1) (heat: 96)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784843
[14:35] <dpm> serfus, have you looked at the .glade file as well?
[14:44] <serfus> dpm, i have now and it's not there as well
[14:48] <kelemengabor> serfus: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/soundconverter/oneiric/view/head:/data/soundconverter.glade#L116
[14:50] <kelemengabor> but this software is not in main, so we can't do much
[14:53] <serfus> kelemengabor, this is 'Clear List' but where is 'Archive' ?
[15:04] <kelemengabor> serfus: no idea, but the question was not about that :P
[15:54] <serfus> kelemengabor, right, so do you have an idea what could be the problem?
[16:00] <kelemengabor> serfus: the po file is obsolete
[16:00] <kelemengabor> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/soundconverter/oneiric/view/head:/po/sv.po#L556
[16:00] <kelemengabor> translation is there, but not used
[16:00] <kelemengabor> however, tunning intltool-update puts it back to use
[16:00] <kelemengabor> erm, running
[17:38] <andrejz> hello dpm! i have a question about ddtp. are those translations shared upstream?
[17:40] <dpm> andrejz, I'll be back in a few minutes, on the phone right now
[17:40] <andrejz> sure tyt
[17:59] <kelemengabor> andrejz: AFAIK, not entirely
[17:59] <dpm> andrejz, we've got the technical means to send them back upstream, but right now we're not doing it afaik. You might be familiar with Nightmonkey https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nightmonkey, which is the project that allows translating them easily and also sending it to upstream. I'm not sure abour the status of nightmonkey right now, but kelemengabor might know more
[18:00] <kelemengabor> last time I checked, Debian was able to import the translations that are exported to branches, but not automatically
[18:00] <kelemengabor> http://ddtp.debian.net/ddtss/index.cgi/hu
[18:00] <kelemengabor> for example, this shows quite a few suggestions from rosetta, but they are not recent
[18:02] <kelemengabor> dpm: Nightmonkey does not send it upstream - Ubuntus DDTP translations are exported to branches, and Debian can pick them up, altough they don't really do it
[18:02] <andrejz> ok cool, this nightmonkey is awesome stuff
[18:03] <kelemengabor> indeed :)
[18:03] <andrejz> is oneiric also planned to be added soon in nightmonkey?
[18:03] <andrejz> since this is the one i am translating right now
[18:05] <andrejz> hm, i am wondering what is the lag here
[18:05] <kelemengabor> probably yes, I'll ping someone ;)
[18:05] <andrejz> since on the wiki page it's stated nightmonkey updates every day
[18:05] <kelemengabor> it should
[18:06] <andrejz> but on the other hand it shows a string is untranslated, even though it was translated on 15.06.2011 (8 days ago)
[18:06] <kelemengabor> if not, that's a bug
[18:07] <andrejz> if you choose Natty, Slovenian, Packages in software center, main and Not translated
[18:07] <andrejz> part 3 of gbrainy is specified as untranslated, but it is
[18:08] <andrejz> also, kelemengabor: thanks for enabling oneiric
[18:09] <kelemengabor> andrejz: its not done yet... and the guy who developed it is quite busy nowadays :(
[18:09] <andrejz> ok, what about the delay? you believe i should report a bug?
[18:13] <kelemengabor> andrejz: I think so, the branch has not updated sl.po this whole month
[18:14] <kelemengabor> did you translated that string before the last update, that is, before 06-21?
[18:15] <andrejz> yes on 06-15, says launchpad
[18:15] <andrejz> it's this string - https://translations.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/natty/+pots/ddtp-ubuntu-main/sl/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=%20%2A%20Logic%20Puzzles%3A%20games%20designed%20to%20challenge%20your%20reasoning%20and
[18:15] <kelemengabor> okay, then something is wrong with the export
[18:16] <kelemengabor> could you go ahead? this way please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu :)
[18:17] <andrejz> or is it this one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ddtp-lp-html?
[18:18] <kelemengabor> no, that's the nightmonkey project
[18:19] <andrejz> aha, ok
[18:19] <kelemengabor> the problem must be with the export
[18:19] <kelemengabor> for example, here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-natty/revision/202#main/es.po
[18:19] <kelemengabor> es.po was exported, and it contains a new translation for libcommons-pool-java
[18:20] <andrejz> i see, but no sl.po
[18:20] <kelemengabor> if you open Nightmonkey for Spanish, Natty, main, All packages and search for libcommons-pool-java, you see it is translated
[18:21] <kelemengabor> according to the monkey, so processing the exported files works
[18:21] <kelemengabor> but it seems somehow not all languages are exported
[18:27] <andrejz> hope it's ok and clear
[18:27] <andrejz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/+bug/801261
[18:27] <andrejz> brb
[18:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 801261 in ddtp-ubuntu "Not all languages are exported correctly (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]


[18:10] <ScottK> Riddell: It looks to me (at least from skimming git commit logs) that kdepim for 4.8 is going to need a git snapshot of Akonadi.
[18:27] <Riddell> ScottK: ug
[19:48] <apachelogger> Sput: when will quassel grow script0ring or something? :S
[19:53] <apachelogger> when are we switching to clang?
[19:54] <Riddell> apachelogger: what is clang?
[19:55] <Riddell> "Clang project is a new C, C++, Objective C and Objective C++ front-end for the LLVM compiler."
[19:55] <apachelogger> c compiler for llvm
[19:55] <apachelogger> yeah, that ^^
[19:56] <Riddell> because if we used that instead of GCC we couldn't all call it Kubuntu GNU/Linux
[19:56] <apachelogger> sure we can
[19:56] <littlegirl> Hey there, I use Kubuntu Lucid Lynx. My package manager is configured to check for updates daily and display a notification if there are any. My System Tray is configured to display all icons. I used to get notified of updates to packages, but haven't for a couple of months now. Where can I check for what's causing this?
[19:56] <apachelogger> but it'd be GNU/Apple/Linux
[19:56] <apachelogger> hrrr
[19:56] <apachelogger> littlegirl: #kubuntu for support please
[19:57] <littlegirl> apachelogger: Yes, I've tried that. Repeatedly. Nobody helps me. Can you please recommend another place?
[19:58] <apachelogger> not really, you'll have to wait, unfortunately I'll not be any help there either
[20:17] <apachelogger> sheytan: ping
[20:18] <sheytan> apachelogger: pongy
[20:18] <apachelogger> sheytan: we be needing some changes to the phonon website if at all possible
[20:18] <sheytan> like what?
[20:18] <apachelogger> some box that lists versions of phonon, phonon gstreamer, and phonon vlc
[20:18] <apachelogger> with link to download
[20:19] <sheytan> will take care of that ;)
[20:19] <apachelogger> awesomest
[20:19] <apachelogger> sheytan++
[20:20] <apachelogger> where is kubotu? :S
[20:20] <sheytan> not a problem :)
[20:20] <sheytan> he has free. You can't work all the time :D
[20:21]  * apachelogger interrupts kubotu's vacation
[20:21] <apachelogger> kubotu: h
[20:21] <apachelogger> kubotu: hi
[20:21] <kubotu> hola apachelogger!
[20:21] <sheytan> told ya :D
[20:21] <sheytan> oooh
[20:22] <apachelogger> kubotu: karma sheytan
[20:22] <kubotu> karma for sheytan: 3
[20:22] <apachelogger> sheytan++
[20:22] <apachelogger> kubotu: you be around when I increment someone!!!!!
[20:22] <sheytan> apachelogger: so, how's kubuntu development going novadays?
[20:22] <sheytan> im quite out of its life
[20:23] <apachelogger> sheytan: I have no idea
[20:24] <apachelogger> when I am not busy I am drunk
[20:24]  * apachelogger is as useful as air condition in the arctic
[20:24]  * sheytan feeling the same
[20:24] <sheytan> i mean of course myself :)
[20:52] <Riddell> sheytan: a bit of artwork we need done at some point is name badges for fosdem
[20:53] <Riddell> like these http://www.bartcoppens.be/blogimages/fosdem2011_group.jpg
[20:53] <Riddell> kde wallpaper plus logo plus lighter area for names
[20:53] <Riddell> plus fosdem logo
[20:53] <Riddell> in svg
[20:54] <Riddell> and then I'd like to think about getting a KDE poster stand
[20:58] <apachelogger> and a picture of kubotu
[20:58] <apachelogger> no, make that me
[20:58] <apachelogger> http://i.imgur.com/QgIf9.png
[20:59] <Riddell> you died your hair!
[21:00] <apachelogger> <3 kde
[21:24] <bulldog98> apachelogger: I also thought about doing something like that :)
[21:30] <Riddell> we should all die our hair blue for fosdem
[21:35] <apachelogger> and then send a picture to mark? :P
[21:35] <apachelogger> why is he not ideling here anymore? :S
[22:09] <Riddell> 4.7.90 all in ninjas, testers needed!
[22:10] <BarkingFish> Riddell: Speaking of testers needed - why was KDE 4.7.3 moved into main from PPA when it's still broken? :P
[22:11] <Riddell> plenty of us tested it, do you know what's wrong with it?
[22:11] <BarkingFish> I wound up upgrading to it today, after downgrading about a month ago due to issues - I did this to stop apper nagging me :)
[22:12] <BarkingFish> Riddell: There is a major bug with plasma-desktop - It's crashing at will, whenever it freely wishes to - it can be on opening a program, using one, closing a program...
[22:13] <BarkingFish> It's done it 3 times today - twice when I've opened xchat, third time was when I opened systemsettings to change my color scheme
[22:13] <Riddell> did you find out what upstream thought about the backtrace?  did you try 4.7.4?
[22:14] <BarkingFish> I've filed with KDE already, it seems it wasn't just me with the issue -
[22:15] <BarkingFish> and no I haven't tried 4.7.4 - 4.7.3 only just went into stable, I dread risking 4.7.4 when 4.7.3 is busted :)
[22:19] <BarkingFish> the report seems to have gone, looks like it was marked as a duplicate
[22:22] <BarkingFish> I have to reboot anyhow quickly - so I'll check to see whether it happens again when I restart xchat on my return - if it does, I'll pastebin the backtrace for you to take a look at, Riddell :)
[22:23] <BarkingFish> BTW, I hope you're feeling much better now - I just realised who I was talking to...
[22:23] <BarkingFish> I'll be back in a bit :)
[22:23] <Riddell> well there's no point in testing .3 now that .4 is available, you'd be best testing that
[22:24] <BarkingFish> Riddell: so I have to upgrade to .4 realising there's a potential that it might be borked... when I have a system I already know is borked :P
[22:24] <BarkingFish> nice :)
[22:24] <Riddell> that's what testing is all about
[22:24] <BarkingFish> I guess broken to broken ain't all that different :)
[22:25] <BarkingFish> I'll reenable my ppa in apper, move up to .4 and be back in a bit - although I'll let you know, according to kde's bugzilla, plasma bugs are still present in 4.7.4 :)
[22:25] <BarkingFish> So I guess this is a bit of a foregone conclusion, but what the hey :)
[22:28] <BarkingFish> back in a while, now upgrading to 4.7.4
[22:54] <Riddell> 4.7.90 depends on liblzma5 (>= 5.1.1alpha+20110809) where does that come from?
[22:56] <Riddell> oh, needs precise
[22:56] <Riddell> and I'm on oneiric
[22:56] <Riddell> duh
[23:15] <BarkingFish> Riddell: Right - I have good news for you... I've just tested 4.7.4 with everything that I can possibly throw at it, and Plasma has not crashed once.
[23:15] <BarkingFish> I've even tried to deliberately crash it by opening about 30 apps at once, and it's still not died.
[23:16] <BarkingFish> 4.7.4 appears on the outside to be more stable than 4.7.3 - i'd recommend getting it into main as soon as possible :)
[23:26] <Riddell> ScottK: &&
[23:26] <Riddell> ^^
[23:27] <Riddell> BarkingFish: please add your results to the table at the bottom of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging
[23:27] <BarkingFish> of course I will, I'm as pleased as hell at the moment :)
[23:41] <BarkingFish> do you use the same wiki code on there as regular wikis, mediawiki code?
[23:47] <BarkingFish> Riddell: I can't update the table there - the kubuntu wiki appears to be borked
[23:48] <BarkingFish> "Internal Server Error: The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request."
[23:48] <Riddell> try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging
[23:48] <BarkingFish> that's where I am now
[23:48] <Riddell> I need to moan to sysadmins about the frequent timeouts
[23:48] <BarkingFish> oops sorry, misread
[23:48] <BarkingFish> I'll try that one instead
[23:50] <BarkingFish> And firefox won't let me go to that one :)  It wants me to add a security exception before it will let me!
[23:53] <BarkingFish> and now I got there, I get this :)
[23:53] <BarkingFish> "The requested URL /Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging was not found on this server."
[23:53] <BarkingFish> !!!"&$*££&&"!
[23:54]  * BarkingFish mumbles something under his breath about a live chicken, a rabbi and a sledgehammer


[07:36] <dholbach> good morning
[16:45] <belkinsa> OMG, guess what I got in the mail today?  The Certificate of Ubuntu Membership!
[16:50] <genii> Wow, didn't know those even existed
[16:55] <mhall119> genii: yup: http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/06/14/printed-certificates-for-ubuntu-members/
[16:55] <genii> Nice!


[06:38] <lyr> Hi. So I installed xubuntu 21.04 minimal. I'm missing my screen (plugged through displayport) as a sound output, though it was available wuth ubuntu budgie 20.04. Missing something ?
[07:21] <gnrp> lyr: different drivers for the GPU than before maybe?
[09:08] <lyr> gnrp ah yes, likely
[09:09] <lyr> gnrp I don't know why, the proprietary drivers UI is grayed, can't chose anything else than the current for my nvidia
[09:10] <lyr> It's on "Go on using a manually installed pilot" (approximative translation)", can,'t pick "Use NVIDIA Server driver ....."
[09:58] <gnrp> lyr: Sorry, can't really help you with the nvidia driver, didn't use Nvidia GPUs for a long time
[09:58] <gnrp> I don't know what the original wording for that would be, but a manual installation should always work, no?
[09:58] <gnrp> it is just annoying that then you have to manually rebuild the dirver every time you change major kernel version
[10:17] <lyr> gnrp the thing is I didn't do anything on the topic
[10:18] <lyr> Usually I just click in the menu on the nvidia's driver and done with it
[10:18] <lyr> Usually meaning when the menu ain't locked
[10:19] <gnrp> lyr: I never really used the graphical interface for software installation, sorry
[10:19] <lyr> kk
[10:26] <lyr> apt install nvidia-driver-460 did the job (menu is now unlocked and already set on nvidia 460 anyway)
[10:38] <gnrp> ah, hehe, that's whatI would have proposed as well^^
[17:10] <lyr> What's the default unarchive for xubuntu ?
[17:10] <lyr> Minimal installation is a tad rought...
[17:32] <kryten> lyr: 'engrampa' is what you want I guess.
[20:34] <Anna___> Is there a way for resolution to be changed during xubuntu installation?? I know I can open terminal with super+T, but the xrandr command doesn't seem to work for me.
[20:38] <diogenes_> Anna___, what error?
[20:39] <Anna___> who said anything about error?
[20:49] <Anna___> Whether an error exists or not, I do not know. I didn't say anything about an error. I'm looking for a way to change my screen's resilution from the xubuntu installer.
[20:49] <Anna___> resolution*
[23:36] <xu-irc72w> Is this my identifier? 'xu-irc72w' or does ir stand for something else? This is my first time on this. or any other irc channel
[23:37] <doc> xu-irc72w: change your nick using /nick newnick
[23:37] <xu-irc72w> I just type on this space?
[23:41] <hmurphy> Well, it works. Thanks doc, or is it Dave O'Connor? Believe me, I am an absolute newbie to irc.
[23:44] <doc> hmurphy: people reference each other by nick
[23:48] <hmurphy> ok, thanks doc. Is there a guide for irc etiquette?
[23:49] <Unit193> You'll also have to remember about timezones, sometimes it can be very slow, but if you stick around long enough you should get a response.   Don't privmsg people without good reason and/or their okay.
[23:51] <Unit193> I always liked https://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc/
[23:51] <hmurphy> I am not sure what webchat is. I assume privmsg is short for private message.
[23:52] <Unit193> https://kiwiirc.com is webchat, there's native clients like hexchat though.
[23:55] <hmurphy> Yes, one of the participants on one of the forums I follow suggested hexchat.
[23:58] <hmurphy> The sort of information on workaround.org is what I was looking for.


[20:27] <xnox> stgraber: so I'm running upstart based session now and there are job conflicts.
[20:28] <xnox> so there is upstart job to start gnome-settings-daemon but also gnome-session is starting an ubuntu session, which in turn also start gnome-settings-daemon
[20:28] <xnox> thus it means that if upstart job is quicker all is good, or in my case
[20:29] <xnox> where gnome-session was quicker, the upstart job was stuck respawning because the upstart's g-s-d could claim the bus name.
[20:29] <stgraber> xnox: right, in that case you need to kill the one from gnome-session
[20:30] <xnox> yeah. I see how you did not want to use a new session name (since nothing would work out of the box)
[20:30] <stgraber> xnox: I had that race happen less than 10% of the time here and there's little we can do in upstart until the desktop team changes gnome-session to stop spawning it
[20:31] <stgraber> yeah, I actually use a different name to trigger the upstart support, but then change the name half-way through xsession to avoid everything blowing up
[20:31] <stgraber> so yeah, no easy way not to have g-s-d spawned
[20:32] <stgraber> and g-s-d doesn't have a --replace or --kill option so I can get the upstart job to cleanup any existing one (as I'm doing with pulseaudio IIRC)
[20:32] <xnox> stgraber: well... =) we can prepend a new XDG_CONFIG_DIRS pointing to /usr/share/upstart/xdg/ where we drop the xdg overrides which disable things that are spawned by gnome-session
[20:32] <xnox> and then gnome-session will notice the override and not spawn g-s-d, yet we keep the same session name
[20:33]  * xnox takes a task to implement this
[20:33] <stgraber> ah, I guess that'd be a reasonable workaround until we switch to upstart for good
[20:33] <xnox> and thus not requiring any changes in the packages.
[20:33] <xnox> stgraber: where is your integration branch?
[20:34] <xnox> also thanks to dbus logs I have a bug to file....
[20:36] <stgraber> xnox: lp:~stgraber/ubuntu/raring/upstart/user-session-ppa
[20:36] <xnox> ok.
[20:37] <xnox> hmm..... ssh agent didn't work...
[20:59]  * xnox tries to find what sets XDG_CONFIG_DIRS and if gnome-session sets & overrides it, I may have a problem in my cunning plan
[21:03] <xnox> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ awesome =)
[21:08] <xnox> well I'm currently abusing /usr/share/upstart/xdg for disabling. But I guess going in the future we will want /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntu-upstart/ to be added to the XDG_CONFIG_DIRS such that one can ship both
[21:08] <xnox> an upstart job and a .desktop autostart file
[21:09] <xnox> and then only the upstart job will be used during upstart session.
[21:09] <xnox> not sure how/if/when other DE will switch to upstart managed sessions.
[22:05] <xnox> compiz is being respun by gnome-session
[22:05] <xnox> but i'm not sure where/how we can override /usr/share/gnome/wm-properties/compiz.desktop
[22:05] <xnox> also /me is very confused about hidding jobs it needs type,name,exec to validate plus hidden to hide.
[22:05] <xnox> yet xdg autostart spec says only hidden key + matching file name is needed
[22:05] <xnox> *sigh
[22:06] <xnox> *
[22:28] <stgraber> I think we'll really need to spend a bit more time and just get rid of gnome-session earlier than first planned. That's the only way to get all the benefits and avoid the weird issues we're seeing currently
[22:29] <stgraber> I tried that the other day but for some reason I wasn't getting any of the indicators
[22:29] <stgraber> maybe the recent fixes for dbus and cwd improved that though. I'd have to try it again
[22:29] <stgraber> oh, and we'd need to implement the gnome-session dbus APIs then (for session logout at least)
[22:36] <xnox> hmm... and what about the rest of the /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop files shipped by the rest of the packages?
[22:36] <xnox> (i'm hoping not that many)
[22:36] <xnox> and other apps that self-drop ~/.config/autostart/ e.g. google-chrome, shutter and others/
[22:36] <xnox> ?
[22:37] <xnox> upstart-xdg-autostart-bridge?!
[22:37] <stgraber> shouldn't be too hard to have an upstart job spawn those once and forget about them
[22:38] <xnox> or crazy hacks to make gnome-session check up with upstart and not start stuff spawned by upstart or make it ask upstart for a list of things it knowns
[22:38] <xnox> and only spawn the set that upstart didn't know about
[22:38] <xnox> that assumes, of course, matching and stable job names.


[01:40] <ochosi> micahg: forwarding the new xubuntu-meme (courtesy of bluesabre) to you: http://imagebin.org/244741
[01:40] <bluesabre> :D
[01:40] <ochosi> i really love it
[01:40] <ochosi> should go on our website
[01:40] <Unit193> That's awesome.
[01:41] <pleia2> lol
[01:41] <bluesabre> I just feel like that's the feeling we all get once every few days :)
[06:50] <Noskcaj> just found a bug in 12.10, at least xubuntu amd64. when you make a program open in half the screen by dragging it to the top, pressing the maximise button maxes the top part of the window go above the screen
[07:22] <Noskcaj> ping to anyone online
[07:40] <knome> yes?
[07:45] <Noskcaj> knome, please read the previous post, just want to check it's not already reported
[07:46] <Noskcaj> also, bug 1065789, just letting you know
[07:49] <knome> i don't know if it's reported, but i can confirm
[08:16] <Noskcaj> knome, ok, any idea what package? also, know anyone able to confirm bug 1087409 or real hardware?
[08:17] <knome> i believe xfwm4
[08:18] <knome> re: confirm on real hw: no, not at this moment
[08:18] <knome> Unit193 maybe
[08:22] <Noskcaj> how would i best describe the bug?
[08:23] <astraljava> Every screen? Or is it just downloading the restriced-extras package at that time?
[08:24] <knome> Noskcaj, your description seems fine and sensible
[08:24] <Noskcaj> title?
[08:25] <knome> "Tiling a window + maximizing sends it out of screen" ?
[08:25] <knome> or sends it partly
[08:26] <knome> of you paste me the bug number after you've filed, i can make sure it gets the needed attention
[08:26] <knome> *if
[08:27] <Noskcaj> 1110158, i'm getting screenshots now
[08:27] <Noskcaj> bug 1110158
[08:27] <knome> thanks
[08:28] <Noskcaj> just found what causes it, mess around with how far up the screen you drag to make it happen
[08:28] <Noskcaj> and you will see
[08:33] <Noskcaj> i will check if it affects 13.04 tomorrow
[08:36] <knome> probably yes since it also has xfce 4.10
[08:36] <knome> this is a relatively new feature
[11:14] <Unit193> knome: I'm sorry but I don't know if I know what that response is to.
[11:15] <pjotr> Hello, I have a question about Xubuntu.
[11:16] <pjotr> Will there be a second point release of Xubuntu 12.04 (12.04.2)?
[11:24] <pjotr> ochosi: do you happen to know whether Xubuntu 12.04 will get a second point release (12.04.2)?
[11:25] <ochosi> pjotr: i think yes, but better wait for someone to confirm it ;)
[11:31] <pjotr> OK... :)
[11:33] <pjotr> The point releases are becoming more important because of the new rolling kernel policy for LTS's.... So a Xubuntu 12.04.2 would be cool to have available, especially for installing on very new hardware.
[11:39] <knome> there will
[11:48] <pjotr> knome: that's good news. Thanks for the info!  :)
[12:02] <knome> micahg, mr_pouit: is xubuntu-bugs receiving notifications of all xfwm4 themes already?
[12:22] <knome> erh
[12:23] <knome> xfwm4 bugs.
[12:23] <knome> shouldn't try to think/talk when hungry
[20:25] <mr_pouit> knome: yes
[20:25] <mr_pouit> ochosi: micahg: sorry, I haven't had time to reply to your mail(s) yet
[20:46] <knome> mr_pouit, good good


[14:20] <bennabiy> I am having an issue with losing graphics after grub with 14.04
[14:21] <bennabiy> Intel Mobile 4 Series Integratedgraphics


[05:58] <iamthelostboy> Keybuk: thanks for the help earlier.. the process the upstart job is running is just a standard application.. when the job is started by me logged in as root by emitting the same event which normally starts it, the job stays running with the process id,, if the job is started during normal system startup, the process stays running, though the job goes into the waiting state
[05:58] <iamthelostboy> i cant quite understand why there is a difference between me manually starting it and been automatically started during system startup
[09:32] <Keybuk> achivetta: removing "respawn" from the job will prevent Upstart from respawning it
[09:32] <Keybuk> but that will mean it just fails once, obviously
[09:32] <Keybuk> probably better to find out why it fails with an I/O error
[09:33] <Keybuk> could be that you're starting it too early?
[09:33] <Keybuk> iamthelostboy: not sure on that one without some debugging traces
[09:33] <Keybuk> iamthelostboy: run "initctl log-priority debug" then capture the messages when you start by hand
[09:33] <Keybuk> for the boot case, add "--debug" to your kernel command line and watch the console messages
[10:18]  * Keybuk came up with the release name for 0.6.0 at a very strange hour last night ;)
[12:55] <johnflux_> Hey everyone
[12:58] <Keybuk> hey
[13:02] <johnflux_> Keybuk, is there a gui for starting/stopping services?
[13:03] <johnflux_> a KDE gui would be nice
[13:03] <johnflux_> Keybuk, I'm wondering how to do the integration of kde's System Activity (task manager)
[13:04] <Keybuk> there is no gui
[13:04] <Keybuk> however the D-Bus interface should make writing one trivial
[13:07] <Keybuk> I started documenting it here http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/DBusInterface
[13:08] <Keybuk> obviously this is largely incomplete so far, and doesn't include the new method we discussed
[13:08] <johnflux_> Keybuk, and presumably the d-bus interface isn't public just yet
[13:08] <johnflux_> Keybuk, thanks for documenting it
[13:09] <Keybuk> how do you mean by public?
[13:12] <johnflux_> Keybuk, sorry I mean that non-root users can't use the dbus interface yet
[13:12] <johnflux_> Keybuk, the second bug that I filed
[13:14] <johnflux_> Keybuk, "no well-known name is required."   what does this mean?
[13:14] <johnflux_> what's a well-known name?
[13:20] <Keybuk> use the dbus/Upstart.conf file from trunk
[13:20] <Keybuk> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~scott/upstart/trunk/revision/1126#dbus/Upstart.conf
[13:21] <Keybuk> if you don't know what a "well known name" is, I suggest starting from a D-Bus tutorial
[13:21] <Keybuk> it's a fairly fundamental concept
[13:23] <johnflux_> Keybuk, would you mind if I added a link from "well known name" to the appropriate dbus tutorial paragraph then?
[13:23] <johnflux_> I can't be the only one who vaguelly knows what dbus is, but don't know what "well known name" means
[13:27] <Keybuk> sure


[00:02] <ochosi> bluesabre: you didn't push any of your catfish changes yet, right?
[00:03] <bluesabre> nope
[00:03] <ali1234> i have 140 zombie pidgins :(
[00:03] <bluesabre> ochosi: saw that xubuntu-artwork was updated, will push that probably tonight
[00:04] <ochosi> bluesabre: i originally wanted to wait until gnome had added his in-development wallpaper, but yeah, i'd say go ahead. that way we'll discover more missing icons etc
[00:04] <knome> :P
[00:12] <bluesabre> alright
[00:12] <bluesabre> thanks a lot gnome!
[00:12] <bluesabre> s/g/k
[00:13] <knome> hah.
[00:13] <knome> gee
[00:13] <knome> i'm off to bed
[00:13] <knome> nighty
[00:15] <bluesabre> nighty knome, have fun
[00:16] <Unit193> ali1234: Wow!   I want to report a bug, but it doesn't refer to any package. I may explain it here
[09:22] <elfy> you can try
[09:24] <elfy> ali1234: for what it's worth I reported mine
[09:26] <yanpas> Autostart application start too early, so they have problems with gtk theme, fonts or even doesn't work. I use autologin option
[09:26] <yanpas> applications*
[09:48] <yanpas> will try to report it to xfce-session. Maybe I will be redirected.
[10:34] <brainwash> ochosi: ok. but will someone look at it? I will have to ping a "potential" uploader, right?
[10:42] <ochosi> brainwash: no, i'll take care of that part
[10:42] <ochosi> (in case you're referring to your xdg-utils patch)
[10:43] <brainwash> ochosi: yes, thanks
[10:44] <ochosi> no problem
[10:45] <ochosi> i'll just have to see what sort of feedback i get about that .pc dir
[10:45] <ochosi> i hope they'll clean up the package a bit
[10:46] <Unit193> Only thing I can think of, micahg commented once that he dislikes making reviews with that, but didn't imply it was actually against general guidelines.
[10:46] <ochosi> hm ok
[10:46] <ochosi> yeah, it makes the diff a bit messy
[10:46] <Unit193> ^
[10:47] <ochosi> anyway, will see what u-desktop folks say..
[10:49] <brainwash> I'm trying to patch our xubuntu keybind file in trusty (rename Control to Primary). this will fix the bug almost, only leaving the maximize keybind in a broken state
[10:49] <brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1292290/comments/31
[10:50] <brainwash> I don't think that we can remap the maximize keybind to the default Xfce one
[10:50] <brainwash> especially for trusty
[10:52] <brainwash> and this the problem, the SRU should fix the bug 100%.. or is almost 100% ok too?
[11:02] <knome> panel switch app, ooh ooh
[12:08] <brainwash> ochosi: https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/lp1292290/+merge/246842
[12:10] <Unit193> astraljava: Wow, welcome back.
[12:10] <astraljava> Hello, and thanks. :)
[12:12] <brainwash> ochosi: oh snap, I guess every commit should also update the debian changelog
[12:14] <brainwash> I think that the merger is responsible for the packaging.. mmh
[12:20] <knome> astraljava, hullo :)
[12:22] <astraljava> Howdy! :)
[12:24] <knome> question: does xubuntu-team need to be subbed to -default-settings?
[12:24] <knome> i know it's the owner, but afaik, we could practically also mute the sub mail
[12:25] <brainwash> did you receive a mail which informs you about my MR?
[12:25] <knome> yes
[12:25] <brainwash> oh :)
[12:26] <knome> -- Your team Xubuntu Team is subscribed to branch lp:xubuntu-default-settings.
[12:26]  * Unit193 likes.
[12:26] <knome> being subbed or not being subbed?
[12:26] <knome> i mean i don't mind getting those, but isn't it a bit weird that everybody in the team gets those :)
[12:26] <Unit193> Getting it, though getting the diff too is nicer.
[12:27] <ochosi> hey astraljava
[12:27] <knome> (not to say they shouldn't get it, or that we should hide it...)
[12:27] <knome> everything is available in launchpad anyway
[12:28] <Unit193> Meh, if you do remove it, please ping me so I can add myself.
[12:29] <knome> i don't think i can, i guess only team admins can
[12:29] <knome> which is why i'm bringing it up here
[13:03] <knome> which tasks do we want to promote to http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/find-a-task/ ?
[13:03] <Unit193> QA and translations it seemed like.
[13:04] <knome> oki
[13:14] <elfy> and anything that we don't get enough people helping on
[13:14] <knome> well we could add everything
[13:14] <knome> but let's start poking the ice with a few
[13:14] <knome> then add more as needed
[13:15] <astraljava> Hi ochosi!
[13:15] <elfy> hey astraljava :)
[13:16] <bluesabre> hey astraljava, welcome :)
[13:23] <brainwash> bluesabre: hey, should I update the debian changelog file in my MR for xubuntu-default-settings or should the merger do that?
[13:43] <astraljava> Hey guys. :)
[13:46] <bluesabre> brainwash: go ahead... if a new release has been tagged but not pushed, (release "UNRELEASED") do "dch -r" (revise), otherwise "dch -i" (increment) to set the new version number
[14:49] <brainwash> bluesabre: ok, I will do that for future commits
[15:07] <brainwash> bluesabre: want to prepare a new xubu default settings release after the MR? the keybind fix cannot be SRU'd back to utopic and trusty without it landing in vivid
[15:08] <brainwash> trusty also needs a commit which is already included in utopic/vivid
[16:14] <bluesabre> brainwash: sure, is there anything else needed in vivid default-settings?
[16:15] <brainwash> bluesabre: does not look like it. cosmetic changes are not planned, or?
[16:16] <brainwash> the development wallpaper thingy
[16:16] <bluesabre> that's xubuntu-artwork package
[16:16] <brainwash> ah, so the image path remains the same
[16:17] <bluesabre> yup --I'll package these things today
[16:17] <brainwash> ok, thanks
[16:23] <slickymaster> knome, translations definitely re: http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/find-a-task/
[16:24] <slickymaster> besides QA, I belive that it's one of our major shortcomings
[19:00] <knome> slickymaster, already forwarded
[21:03] <jjfrv8> ochosi, did you want me to update the xfpm docs to incorporate the Security tab?
[21:40] <sidi> knome, ?
[21:43] <knome> sidi, was?
[21:52] <sidi> "Set up a firewall" is totally useless for 90% of your users btw
[21:53] <knome> i'm aware of that
[21:53] <knome> maybe we should add a note that it isn't usually needed
[21:54] <sidi> i'll come to that
[21:54] <knome> "you should consider setting up a firewall only if you do X"
[21:54] <sidi> knome, wanna use a drive, so you can see what im typing and comment in live?
[21:54] <knome> worksforme
[21:56] <sidi> shared with your @shimmer address
[21:56] <knome> will start monitoring that in a sec
[22:08] <ochosi> jjfrv8: so far that tab hasn't been merged upstream and bluesabre and me are still discussing whether one of the options will remain there. but when it's finalized it can hopefully be merged upstream and then i guess adding it to the docs would be great!
[22:13] <sidi> knome, currently on Xubuntu you can set your password store to use the same password as your login, can't you?
[22:13] <sidi> i can't remember how that's implemented but it seemed to me to be insecure...
[22:14] <knome> probably yes
[22:14] <knome> i don't use a password store so i wouldn't know though
[22:14] <jjfrv8> ochosi, ok, I'll stay tuned.
[22:15] <ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks for being so attentive!
[22:17] <sidi> knome, you'll be responsible for squeezing this btw :p
[22:17] <knome> or jjfrv8 or slickymaster
[22:25] <sidi> knome, i would delete "firewall" altogether
[22:25] <knome> sidi, wfm
[22:26] <sidi> it only makes sense if you run public-facing services, or if you're not on a NAT
[22:26] <sidi> *any* non-tech-savvy home user will be on a NAT
[22:26] <knome> well maybe we can leave a note
[22:26] <sidi> except maybe in China where they have IPv6
[22:26] <knome> "if you run public-facing services or are on a NAT, consider setting up a firewall"
[22:27] <sidi> knome, the firewall, if not configured, does nothing.  Security issues are in the services, not in the network stack ;p firewalls are useful for rate limiting and packet inspection only, and that isn't what they do without instructions.
[22:27] <sidi> Sure
[22:27] <knome> of course
[22:29] <sidi> suffix with "Understand that firewalls are not very useful in their default settings. You should consider what you want to achieve and configure the firewall accordingly. Firewalls can be useful to protect against denial of service attacks, limit access to a service to specific IP addresses or to inspect and reject suspicious packets. They cannot protect you against unknown or emerging threats, and they do not replace the need to install security upd
[22:29] <sidi> ates."
[22:29] <knome> drop that in the doc and i'll take it
[22:29] <sidi> yeah sure.
[22:30] <CajunTechie> Hey folks. What's the right chan for people who want to get involved in testing?
[22:30] <knome> CajunTechie, this, or #ubuntu-quality
[22:30] <CajunTechie> Thank you knome. :-)
[22:33] <knome> sidi, i've went through the passwords stuff now, once you are done, feel free to review if i'm getting the same message across
[22:35] <ochosi> CajunTechie: if you need help or anything, always feel free to ask. our testing lead is elfy (who's probably in dreamland now), but others will answer your questions too if they know
[22:36] <CajunTechie> Thank you ochosi. I actually already have a question: is testing for 15.04 or 15.10 still happening now? And, if so, where can I get the images?
[22:36] <knome> CajunTechie, we're testing 15.04 now
[22:36] <knome> CajunTechie, see the xubuntu product at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds (end of the page)
[22:37] <CajunTechie> Cool. I'll go check it out now.
[22:37] <knome> that has links to downloads and the testcases, and is the place to report install tests
[22:37] <knome> if you plan to test often, it's recommended to rsync
[22:37] <knome> (the first time makes no difference, but subsequential times will be faster)
[22:37] <sidi> knome, i'm kinda done with laying down the general ideas
[22:38] <knome> great!
[22:38] <knome> :)
[22:38] <sidi> now we can work on formatting, englishing and scoping up/down
[22:38] <knome> well check 1/2
[22:38] <knome> i think they are pretty good as they are now
[22:38] <knome> let's do comments comments if needed
[22:38] <knome> eg. not change the text
[22:38] <knome> so it's easier to track changes
[22:39] <sidi> 1, 2.1, 3.1 and 3.2  are the most important things btw
[22:39] <knome> we can do an intro paragraph that mentions that
[22:39] <sidi> anyone wanting to read/contribute https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sEImteNJVZ7T6o0RR7erJbCpS8dXwHDC0pRpu1K3aI/edit?usp=sharing
[22:39] <sidi> sure
[22:39] <knome> is ochosi a turtle
[22:40] <ochosi> i am?
[22:40] <knome> don't know
[22:40] <knome> an anonymous turtle is watching the document
[22:41] <ochosi> right, that's not me then
[22:41] <ochosi> probably the nsa
[22:42] <sidi> knome, 1. doesnt make sense without the names of the vulns I referred to :p
[22:42] <sidi> hahaha that turtle is hilarious
[22:42] <sidi> does it say "anon turtle" in finnish for you knome ?
[22:43] <knome> nope
[22:43] <knome> i don't even use google in finnish
[22:43] <knome> sidi, maybe do the name dropping after the tip though...
[22:43] <sidi> knome, hm yeah you're right
[22:44] <sidi> knome, can you add a "Consider encryption" in the hygiene part? i'll fill it later :p
[22:45] <knome> k
[22:46] <sidi> hm my browser is freezing. Neat
[22:46] <knome> haha.
[22:46] <knome> security breach
[22:46] <knome> ochosi, are you the python or the anteater?
[22:47] <sidi> don't you guys have automated sec updates?
[22:49] <ali1234> knome: you can't see which animal you are, but i'm not the anteater so i guess i am the python?
[22:49] <knome> i/we should check if a clean install does
[22:49] <knome> ali1234, probably :)
[22:49] <ochosi> brainwash: good writeup on the recent bugreport-comment
[22:50] <brainwash> ochosi: the xfpm one?
[22:50] <knome> sidi, aren't you repeating?
[22:50] <knome> see under distrivute
[22:50] <knome> s/v/b/ too
[22:50] <ochosi> brainwash: yup
[22:51] <brainwash> ochosi: heh, I was about to assign the bug to bluesabre.. but then I realized that I cannot do that :D
[22:51] <sidi> knome, distribute?
[22:51] <ochosi> brainwash: and i'm not sure you followed the comments in #xfce-dev, but just as i thought we'll have to go with your patch for now. fixing the dbus inhibition is for "another day" and needs to happen upstream in xdg-utils. and i'm not even sure how easy it is to fix
[22:52] <knome> sidi, what you are typing exists in the subsection below
[22:52] <brainwash> ochosi: sounds ok, and it works fine. should it be SRU'd too?
[22:52] <ochosi> brainwash: i'll discuss whether that's possible this week
[22:53] <brainwash> ochosi: ok
[22:53] <ochosi> but first i need to get it merged for vivid anyway
[22:53] <AgAu> what are you thoughts about using something like keepass to store strong passwords?
[22:53] <knome> sidi, oh, not really
[22:55] <sidi> AgAu, mitigated
[22:55] <sidi> they're nice but:
[22:56] <sidi> 1. you need to use them across all devices, else you end up still having to change passwords
[22:56] <sidi> for instance connecting to skype from a friend's computer
[22:56] <sidi> and then you have to "re-sync" the password with the newly reset password in your password manager or repeat the cycle
[22:56] <sidi> 2. i dont store my passwords online on unknown servers via proprietary APIs, no thanks
[22:57] <sidi> so yeah, i think they're not an actual solution
[22:57] <AgAu> well it's not a problem for me
[22:57] <sidi> if i can have a password manager in my pocket (with a backup at home and maybe another in a digital safe of my choosing) then fine
[22:57] <AgAu> i carry my database on an encrypted drive
[22:57] <AgAu> and i don't use other peoples devices
[22:57] <ali1234> yeah, needing access to things from untrusted computers is the big reason why i don't use them
[22:58] <ali1234> if someone made a simple and cheap hardware password device i might use it
[22:58] <ali1234> and i don't mean like yubikey
[22:58] <sidi> ali1234, look up the Pico project
[22:58] <sidi> there's a group at cambridge working exactly on this
[22:58] <sidi> with strong security properties and a design-centric approach
[22:58] <ali1234> remember those casio personal organizers?
[22:58] <sidi> our boss does consulting for them :p
[22:58] <AgAu> keepass portable works on windows, linux and mac
[22:58] <ali1234> http://images.geeksimages.com/imageshare/S/300x300/SF2000-unit.jpg
[22:59] <AgAu> and you can easily use the same database file for all 3
[22:59] <ali1234> i want something like that, with built in crypto and NO way to connect it to a computer without destroying it
[22:59] <sidi> AgAu, the problem is, who the hell is KeePass and what government do they respond to?
[23:00] <AgAu> its opensource
[23:00] <ali1234> pico looks like exactly what idon't want... it interfaces with the computer, like yubikey
[23:01] <sidi> ali1234, it has a concept of sibling tokens
[23:01] <sidi> using RFC
[23:01] <sidi> it can tell whether it's close to you or not
[23:01] <ali1234> yeah, no
[23:02] <sidi> you have embedded siblings in your clothes/belt/shoes, etc. and if they're absent, it's locked
[23:02] <ali1234> i want a thing that stores encrypted passwords in flash, decrypts them when i enter the passphrase, and displays the password on a small screen for me to transcribe
[23:03] <ali1234> it shouldn't be hard to do, those casio things were £20 20 years ago
[23:03] <AgAu> what happens if your yubi key beraks
[23:03] <AgAu> breaks*
[23:04] <AgAu> or you lose it
[23:04] <sidi> ali1234, transcribe, uuugh
[23:04] <sidi> those devices exist
[23:04] <sidi> people hate them
[23:04] <ali1234> i'm not people
[23:04] <sidi> cant reliably type a password above 6 characters
[23:04] <sidi> ali1234, careful we get asked to evaluate really bad technology on a regular basis, i could add you to our participant pool :p
[23:04] <ali1234> i'm not saying everyone should use it
[23:10] <CajunTechie> One more question: I'm going through the steps on the team page and they say to add yourself to the WhoWeAre and the Hardware pages. But the pages won't let me edit them. Do I need to submit my info somewhere?
[23:10] <knome> CajunTechie, do you have a launchpad account?
[23:11] <CajunTechie> knome: I do and it says I am logged in
[23:11] <knome> CajunTechie, try hard refreshing the page
[23:11] <brainwash> ochosi: ah great, now I've reread the xfpm comment with the different test cases and it feels like I've missed something. with logind=false and action=lock, why does the system suspend? logind should be inhibited and xfpm should only lock, not suspend.. now this is getting way too confusing
[23:12] <CajunTechie> knome: Nope. It shows me as logged in but no edit button
[23:12] <ochosi> brainwash: too many options in too many places, it's really difficult to keep an overview of everything in place
[23:13] <ochosi> brainwash: but sounds like the inhibition wasn't successful or the logic of xfpm wasn't inverted yet hence logind was actually taking over
[23:13] <brainwash> ochosi: once you think that you know what's going on.. you discover something new :)
[23:13] <brainwash> ochosi: right, I will have to check the code again
[23:14] <knome> CajunTechie, you can skip that for now
[23:14] <CajunTechie> knome: Great! So I can just get started testing and submitting bugs?
[23:15] <knome> CajunTechie, absolutely
[23:15] <CajunTechie> Very cool
[23:15] <sidi> knome, i think we could upstream this document to Xfce docs btw
[23:15] <knome> sidi, i guess so, if they had a sensible place to put it to
[23:15] <knome> sidi, or if you are interested enough, register a domain and create a one-place-for-all site
[23:17] <sidi> knome, for security advice or for xfce docs? ;P
[23:17] <knome> security advice
[23:17] <sidi> knome im running student projects every year on how to quantify and prioritise the known good security practice
[23:17] <sidi> to produce concise and "impactful" documents to share with the general public
[23:17] <knome> heh
[23:18] <sidi> last year's batch was disappointing
[23:18] <knome> then for that
[23:18] <knome> awwh
[23:18] <sidi> but yeah
[23:18] <sidi> when we have the evidence to back up claims
[23:18] <sidi> we'll release documents
[23:18] <knome> ;)
[23:18] <sidi> that's one of my secret phd goals :p
[23:18] <knome> heh
[23:20] <sidi> knome, hmmm we should mention password managers
[23:20] <knome> go ahead
[23:21] <knome> sidi, i'm not sure of the xkcd comic, but thanks for the thought.
[23:22] <sidi> (FTR we use the word "security hygiene" to build a mental model of security practice as a repeated habit, that doesn't have to be blindly followed but that should be trained as a set of best-effort reflexes which have a generally desirable outcome)
[23:22] <knome> aha
[23:22] <sidi> (security should be treated as hygiene rather than dogma or impossible tasks, the choice of word is very conscientious :p)
[23:23] <knome> password managers and firewall could go into a separate section near the end
[23:25] <knome> fwiw, we can't do docbook interlinks that have the different link name than the actual section name
[23:25] <knome> at least easily
[23:25] <sidi> knome, i didnt get that :p
[23:25] <sidi> managers should go with passwords though, methinks
[23:26] <knome> fine
[23:37] <sidi> knome, you removed a part at the end of "When to change your password", didnt you?
[23:37] <sidi> i had posted something about not ignoring password alerts.
[23:37] <sidi> oh its below
[23:37] <knome> :P
[23:51] <sidi> ok, save for the Encryption and Password Manager bits, this is written!
[23:53] <knome> great
[23:53] <knome> when do you plan on doing that?
[23:53] <knome> i'd rather convert the whole stuff to docbook at once


[05:14] <coolbhavi> finally highvoltage is back on the ARB list
[05:14] <coolbhavi> :)
[05:15] <ajmitch> yay
[05:18] <highvoltage> heh :)
[05:18] <highvoltage> thanks for the welcome, coolbhavi
[05:19] <coolbhavi> phew glad that you are back!
[05:20] <highvoltage> there's a lot to be done. I think there are some ways we could put a bit more responsibilities on the submitters before submitting
[05:20] <highvoltage> it would be nice if they could go through a checklist of basic things to check if it matches policy, at least
[05:21] <highvoltage> then it could potentially get to a point where an app just takes 5 minutes before it's rejected or accepted
[05:21] <highvoltage> and it should be either one of those (I know that's easier said than done :p)
[05:24] <coolbhavi> yes :) thats one part but there should be a link to policy guidelines in myapps before the app developer submits his app
[05:24] <coolbhavi> and thats one of the reasons behind the app dev spec I believe
[05:26] <coolbhavi> or now that lintian is in place we could interface the same I think for now so that manual review gets less load
[05:26] <highvoltage> yeah
[05:31] <coolbhavi> I'll fire a quick post to the list then thanks!


[08:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected grub2 [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [2.04-1ubuntu32]
[10:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gke-5.4 [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [5.4.0-1025.25~18.04.1] (no packageset)
[10:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gke-5.4 [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [5.4.0-1025.25~18.04.1]
[10:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2 (groovy-proposed/main) [2.04-1ubuntu34 => 2.04-1ubuntu34] (core)
[11:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2 (groovy-proposed/main) [2.04-1ubuntu34 => 2.04-1ubuntu34] (core)
[11:55] <kanashiro> vorlon: re puppet: ah I see a different fix was uploaded to Debian, I'll drop the puppet patch as suggested. Thanks for the heads-up
[11:58] <kanashiro> hum, the patch was merged by upstream, we will likely need to revisit this once a new version is released
[12:01] <ahasenack> hi release team, if possible I'd like an ACK or NACK on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/+bug/1894838
[12:14] <ahasenack> the longer it takes, the riskier an eventual upload is
[12:16] <kanashiro> vorlon: I took a look now at the puppet and ruby-puppet-syntax situation and I'd prefer to add a delta on ruby-puppet-syntax dropping the patch added by Debian. The puppet package in Debian does not have a fix we have in Ubuntu (it was already merged by upstream), and a patch was added to the ruby-puppet-syntax package to workaround that (without this patch the FTBFS in Ubuntu is fixed).
[13:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-19.20] (core, kernel)
[13:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [s390x] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-19.20] (core, kernel)
[13:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-1002.2] (core, kernel)
[13:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-19.20] (core, kernel)
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [arm64] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-19.20] (core, kernel)
[14:31] <coreycb> hello release team, please can I get a review of this bug when someone has an opportunity? thank you. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1895549
[14:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-1002.2]
[14:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-19.20]
[14:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [s390x] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-19.20]
[14:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-19.20]
[14:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-19.20]
[16:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cloud-utils (xenial-proposed/main) [0.27-0ubuntu25.1 => 0.27-0ubuntu25.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: peony-extensions [s390x] (groovy-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-2] (ubuntukylin)
[16:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted grub2 [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [2.04-1ubuntu34]
[16:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted grub2 [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [2.04-1ubuntu34]
[16:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: peony-extensions [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-2] (ubuntukylin)
[16:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: peony-extensions [amd64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-2] (ubuntukylin)
[16:48] <vorlon> kanashiro: ok whichever direction you think makes sense, cheers
[16:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: peony-extensions [arm64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-2] (ubuntukylin)
[16:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: peony-extensions [armhf] (groovy-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-2] (ubuntukylin)
[16:49] <vorlon> coreycb: dnspython> that's fine; is there a way this could've been caught by autopkgtests on eventlet and designate?
[16:51] <vorlon> doko, rbalint: any ETA on fixed cross-toolchain-base, to unblock glibc?
[16:52] <coreycb> vorlon: thanks for your reply. I'll work on that today then. yes, James mentioned to us that we could run unit tests in autopkgtests and they could have caught it. that shouldn't be a ton of work on our end and we have a few packages that already do that.
[16:52] <vorlon> excellent
[16:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-kvm [amd64] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-1002.2] (core)
[16:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-azure [amd64] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-1005.5] (core, kernel)
[17:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: peony-extensions [riscv64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-2] (ubuntukylin)
[17:37] <bdmurray> vorlon: Do you have an opinion on the importance of bug 1893724? I haven't seen any other users of safe-rm but ...
[17:54] <vorlon> bdmurray: ick. I wouldn't expect it to be a commonly-used package; we might want to turn that into a removal for groovy however
[18:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntu-release-upgrader (bionic-proposed/main) [1:18.04.38 => 1:18.04.39] (core)
[18:44] <rafaeldtinoco> FFe need for LP: #1895355. From all the patches (which might look scary), I only need FFe in the ec2 stonith agent support/fixes
[19:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-1005.5]
[19:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-kvm [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [5.8.0-1002.2]
[19:18] <doko> vorlon: it's in -proposed. and it depends how often the gcc-10 builds get killed before succeeding
[20:13] <vorlon> doko: ah? how often have they been killed so far?
[20:19] <vorlon> boo @ no automatic britney reruns for series on changes to the hint files
[20:25] <vorlon> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-scripts/trunk/revision/292 better
[20:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cifs-utils (bionic-proposed/main) [2:6.8-1ubuntu1 => 2:6.8-1ubuntu1.1] (desktop-core, ubuntu-server)
[20:47] <blackboxsw> bdmurray: do you know who the SRU vanguard for today should be?
[20:47] <blackboxsw> there is no sil2100
[20:48] <blackboxsw> be wary it's cloud-init SRU request following :)
[20:49] <bdmurray> Well I was gonna say I might be able to look but uh...
[20:49] <blackboxsw> heh yeah time sink.:(
[20:49] <blackboxsw> we might have to hit up someone tomorrow morn
[20:49] <bdmurray> Then I'll still lose
[20:49] <blackboxsw> and then 50% chance :)
[20:50] <blackboxsw> unless RAOF is out this week
[20:50] <blackboxsw> justsaying the weather tomorrow looks like cloud-init SRU rain showers :)
[20:50] <bdmurray> Weather is not my favorite topic
[20:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cifs-utils (focal-proposed/main) [2:6.9-1 => 2:6.9-1ubuntu0.1] (core)
[20:56] <falcojr> the SRU is for focal, bionic, and xenial per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1893064
[20:56] <tdaitx> @bdmurray @vorlon (or anyone on the sru team) please remove the scilab uploads to bionic and focal, after updating the 2 bugs we have for the scilab sru I found that I had bad LP references in the changelogs
[20:57] <bdmurray> I can do that!
[20:57] <tdaitx> s/uploads to/unapproved uploads on/
[20:57] <tdaitx> @bdmurray thanks!
[20:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected scilab [source] (bionic-proposed) [6.0.2-1ubuntu1]
[20:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected scilab [source] (focal-proposed) [6.1.0+dfsg1-1ubuntu4]
[21:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-dell300x [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [4.15.0-1003.5] (no packageset)
[21:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle-5.4 [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.4.0-1025.25~18.04.1] (no packageset)
[21:03] <tdaitx> bdmurray: there was one more on focal
[21:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected scilab [source] (focal-proposed) [6.1.0+dfsg1-1ubuntu5]
[21:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-dell300x [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1003.5]
[21:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle-5.4 [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [5.4.0-1025.25~18.04.1]
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (groovy-proposed/main) [5.8.0-1003.3] (core, kernel)


[00:41] <RAOF> cnd: Hey, where's the canonical source for xorg-gtest?
[00:42] <cnd> RAOF, sadly, it's still my personal repo on fd.o
[00:42] <cnd> I'm still waiting for a fd.o sitewrangler to flip perms bits so it can move into xorg/test/
[00:42] <cnd> we're near a 0.1.0 release
[00:43] <cnd> I just need to not have other fires to put out :(
[00:46] <RAOF> )
[00:46] <RAOF> :)
[00:46] <RAOF> I can happily use it from your personal repo.
[00:55] <RAOF> cnd: And, just so that I can shamelessly copy some examples, where are some of your tests? :)
[00:56] <cnd> RAOF, check out lp:utouch-grail and lp:utouch-frame
[00:56] <cnd> in the test/ subdirs
[00:56] <cnd> RAOF, if you need to reply device recordings you'll find some nice classes in there
[00:57] <RAOF> That actually might be really useful.  At the moment I'll be happy with XTESTing the pointer around, I think.
[05:36] <RAOF> Sarvatt: The mesa ubuntu5 sitting in git - has that been uploaded?
[05:39] <Sarvatt> RAOF: nope
[05:39] <RAOF> Ok; I'll add more fixes to it.
[05:42] <Sarvatt> RAOF: 8.0 final is due any time now, possibly even in the next few hours
[05:43] <Sarvatt> if you're just cherry-picking things post rc2
[05:43] <RAOF> No.  I'm fixing up the -dev dependencies a bit more.
[05:44] <Sarvatt> oh cool, what else did you find?
[05:44] <RAOF> xcb-x11
[05:44] <RAOF> Bah.  x11-xcb
[05:51] <Sarvatt> sheesh, no wonder, clutter using EGL only on armel/armhf
[05:55] <Sarvatt> xcb-glx was the only one we hit between the other consumers of libegl-mesa-dev, edgers cairo wayland-demos and hadn't rebuilt mesa-utils but that would have failed too
[05:56] <RAOF> Sarvatt: You're happy for me to push mesa with the depends fixes now?
[05:56] <Sarvatt> RAOF: much appreciated
[05:59] <RAOF> Oh, bah.  Mesa doesn't build on a tmpfs because overlayfs sucks.
[06:01] <Sarvatt> pretty darn safe to say that wont fail to build :)
[06:02] <RAOF> I always like to check.
[06:02] <Sarvatt> PPA?
[06:02] <RAOF> It doesn't take *that* long to build on an i5.
[06:03] <Sarvatt> sandybridge? its about 9 minutes on an i7-2600 and ~20 on an i5-2557M
[06:05] <RAOF> Yeah, sandybridge.
[06:05]  * RAOF 's sad the i7 went to the big lenovo heap in the sky.
[06:06] <Sarvatt> RAOF: CRAP
[06:06] <Sarvatt> should have pilfered the CPU
[06:06] <Sarvatt> swapped with the i5 :)
[06:08] <Sarvatt> then again it's barely any different
[06:08] <RAOF> Did not occur to me :)
[06:08] <RAOF> Eh, a bit more cache, a bit higher clockspeed IIRC.
[15:41] <Sarvatt> ricotz: hey is precise broken after the eglibc updates on 295.17 too?
[15:45] <ricotz> Sarvatt, works fine here
[15:45] <ricotz> but i am running 3.3rc3
[15:50] <Sarvatt> ricotz: what version libc6 package?
[15:50] <Sarvatt> and have you rebooted since updating?
[15:51] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/929384
[15:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 929384 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "nvidia drivers broken by the recent libc update (affects: 17) (dups: 17) (heat: 176)" [High,Confirmed]
[15:59] <tseliot> cnd: how come did you update the changelog of X without any other changes in git?
[15:59] <cnd> tseliot, you'll have to ask tjaalton what happened
[16:00] <tseliot> cnd: never mind, it was some terminal corruption I guess...
[16:00] <tseliot> it looks fine now
[16:00] <cnd> ok
[16:00] <cnd> oh wait, I think it was Sarvatt
[16:00] <cnd> there was a snafu when he packaged it up last time
[16:00] <cnd> but all should be ok now
[16:02] <tseliot> it is
[16:12] <ricotz> Sarvatt,  2.15~pre6-0ubuntu10, and yeah i rebooted
[16:12] <Sarvatt> ok thats really good news
[16:14] <ricotz> but i am seeing problems with totem videoplayback (using clutter) not sure if it is related
[16:14] <ricotz> since there were some gstreamer and libav updates too
[16:26] <tseliot> ricotz, Sarvatt: I need to test it here (I'm updating my laptop) and then I'll upload nvidia
[16:28] <bryceh> tseliot, did you see 929384?  sounds like new elibc broke nvidia
[16:29] <tseliot> bryceh: it seems that the latest nvidia (beta) driver solves the problem ^^
[16:29] <tjaalton> ~15 lines above ;)
[16:29] <Sarvatt> bryceh: yes he knows :)
[16:29] <tjaalton> so we get to upload 1.12 now?
[16:29] <bryceh> great
[16:30] <tjaalton> isn't it that time of the cycle, where everything breaks before feature freeze
[16:30] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: ha, fglrx is busted with 1.11 and wont be fixed until 1.12 is supported, new nvidia upload will support it
[16:31] <tseliot> tjaalton: :D
[16:31] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: fglrx broken as well?
[16:31] <tseliot> Sarvatt: err, can we discuss fglrx in private?
[16:31] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: yeah xv crashes xserver
[16:31] <tjaalton> oh that
[16:31] <tjaalton> who needs xv anyway
[16:33] <Sarvatt> not like every video app uses it by default or anything
[16:37] <tseliot> :)
[16:41] <ricotz> Sarvatt, tseliot, yeah i am running 1.12 too which is another difference
[16:42] <Sarvatt> ricotz: eglibc problem in their libGL
[16:42] <tseliot> yep
[16:42] <Sarvatt> doubt xserver would matter
[16:42] <tseliot> let's hope it doesn't ;)
[16:43] <ricotz> ok
[16:46] <ricotz> tseliot, Sarvatt, but is sounds like this isnt specifically related to nvidia blob?
[16:49] <ricotz> maybe libc is broken
[16:49] <tseliot> ricotz: I haven't had the time to debug it properly. Apparently the issue can't be triggered with Mesa's libGL
[16:49] <tseliot> but yes, libc shouldn't break things like this...
[16:50] <ricotz> ok, my intel graphic is still running as it suppose to
[17:14] <jpds> bryceh: Hey, apw said that you might be able to help me with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/929655
[17:14] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 929655 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Unity randomly freezes after 11.10 upgrade (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:15] <bryceh> jpds, hi, what's up?
[17:16] <jpds> bryceh: I have someone with a laptop which keeps freezing and we're trying to figure out what the issue is.
[17:16] <bryceh> well lets take a look
[17:17] <apw> bryceh, its one of those 'invalid frambuffer id' jobs, this one restarting compiz allows the world to continue, so i am suspicious is userspace rather than kernel
[17:17] <apw> bryceh, and its an x60 so i'd expect it to work :)
[17:18] <bryceh> yeah it's not a gpu lockup
[17:18] <bryceh> jpds, it says in the report that only unity freezes?
[17:19] <jpds> bryceh: Yes, the entire graphical part just freezes up.
[17:20] <bryceh> jpds, anything printed to .xsession-errors when this occurs?
[17:22] <jpds> bryceh: Don't have a copy of that; will try and get it.
[17:22] <bryceh> jpds, I'm not spotting obvious errors in the kernel or X logs, aside from the "(EE) intel(0): Couldn't create pixmap for fbcon" that apw mentioned
[17:25] <apw> [11567.680932] [drm:drm_mode_getfb] *ERROR* invalid framebuffer id
[17:25] <apw> [11567.680943] [drm:drm_mode_getfb] *ERROR* invalid framebuffer id
[17:25] <apw> [11644.821929] [drm:drm_mode_getfb] *ERROR* invalid framebuffer id
[17:25] <apw> [11644.821937] [drm:drm_mode_getfb] *ERROR* invalid framebuffer id
[17:25] <apw> [11678.477663] init: tty1 main process ended, respawning
[17:25] <apw> [11680.331193] [drm:drm_mode_getfb] *ERROR* invalid framebuffer id
[17:25] <apw> [11680.331205] [drm:drm_mode_getfb] *ERROR* invalid framebuffer id
[17:25] <apw> bryceh, those are in the dmesg, though a little back, that was the bottom at the time the issue occured i believe <- jpds
[17:26] <bryceh> jpds, have you tried booting without the xorg.conf?
[17:26] <jpds> bryceh: No.
[17:27] <bryceh> jpds, if there is one, move it aside, it's probably not needed
[17:28] <Sarvatt> invalid framebuffer id is 100% not a problem with anything, its just from the seamless transition not working when X is respawned from the display manager instead of from a normal boot
[17:30] <bryceh> Sarvatt, yep.  Wonder if we should silence that error to avoid the confusion
[17:31] <bryceh> or is that something that can be fixed in lightdm directly?
[17:32] <bryceh> jpds, got your hands on that .xsession-errors?  I think that's our main hope for diagnosing this.  It is sounding like the bug is in compiz rather  than X or the kernel; I'm hoping error messages in .xsession-errors will help prove or disprove that
[17:33] <jpds> bryceh: I'm awiting for sonia to reappear.
[17:34] <bryceh> Sarvatt, wish we could put .xsession-errors into the apport hook...
[17:41] <jpds> bug #870003 - weird.
[17:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 870003 in apport (Ubuntu) "Should collect xsession errors when the issue happens, not when the user reports it (affects: 1) (heat: 1)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870003
[17:45] <bryceh> jpds, yeah we have the same problem with X bugs
[17:46] <bryceh> I've got apport hooks that run (or, SHOULD run) when X crashes, and when the GPU locks up
[17:46] <bryceh> I've my suspicions that they're not working 100%, but they're catching enough to keep us X guys fully occupied
[17:47] <bryceh> jpds, presumably compiz could use similar functionality
[17:54] <jpds> bryceh: Got it.
[18:01] <jpds> "gnome-session[1430]: CRITICAL: We failed, but the fail whale is dead. Sorry...."
[18:03] <bryceh> heh
[18:03] <bryceh> wtf kind of error message is that
[18:03] <bryceh> jpds, anything else?  that sounds like a generic fault handling error
[18:05] <jpds> bryceh: PM.
[18:08] <bryceh> (gnome-settings-daemon:1498): color-plugin-WARNING **: failed to reset xrandr-Lenovo Group Limited gamma tables: gamma size is zero
[18:08] <bryceh> ** (gnome-fallback-mount-helper:1522): DEBUG: ConsoleKit session is active 0
[18:08] <bryceh> gnome-session[1430]: WARNING: Application 'compiz.desktop' killed by signal
[18:08] <bryceh> gnome-session[1430]: WARNING: App 'compiz.desktop' respawning too quickly
[18:08] <bryceh> gnome-session[1430]: CRITICAL: We failed, but the fail whale is dead. Sorry....
[18:10] <apw> bryceh, so ... who to finger, compiz or unity :)
[18:10] <bryceh> apw, one of the two :-)
[18:10] <bryceh> probably next step is to enable more debug messages for compiz, or run it in gdb or some such
[18:11] <bryceh> these warnings actually just tell us what we already knew... compiz got stuck in a loop
[18:13] <apw> bryceh, ok, then i would suggest jpds does the gdb thing when it occurs next and we shove a compiz task on it for fun :)
[18:13] <bryceh> yep.  I can take care of the latter.
[18:14] <bryceh> also, could be entertaining to try booting into a guest session.  If *that* works, then possibly there's stray ccsm config or something in the user's session
[18:24] <apw> bryceh, thanks
[20:46] <ricotz> Sarvatt, good old eglibc ;)
[20:47] <ricotz> bryceh, ^ ;)
[20:47] <ricotz> and indeed i am on amd64
[20:48] <bryceh> ricotz, http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/eglibc-2.15/i386/ looks like it may fix it
[20:49] <Sarvatt> ricotz: yeah see #ubuntu-devel, probably wont be too much longer till i386 fix for nvidia and x64 fix for audio is uploaded
[20:50] <ricotz> bryceh, everything amd64 here
[20:50] <ricotz> Sarvatt, yeah i guess i am hit by the audio one though
[20:50] <bryceh> ricotz, http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/eglibc-2.15/ has amd64 too
[20:50] <ricotz> bryceh, thanks
[21:03] <bryceh> RAOF, hey is there a way to tune/disable the pointer barrier stuff?  it's a bit too grabby on dual head
[21:04] <seb128> bryceh, gnome-control-center, the appearance capplet, second tab has a slider?
[21:04] <bryceh> thanks
[21:05] <bryceh> seb128, actually that's not quite it
[21:05] <seb128> ok, dunno then
[21:06] <bryceh> that controls the speed that the dock pops up, but it appears the grabbiness of the pointer barrier is constant regardless of how that's set
[21:06] <bryceh> (possibly the two should be coupled in some fashion?)
[21:19] <Sarvatt> ricotz: oh yeah forgot to mention, i was trying to resurrect natty in edgers
[21:19] <Sarvatt> but llvm-3.0 is NOT happening
[21:19] <Sarvatt> it needs a binutils update
[21:20] <Sarvatt> don't care enough to conditionally switch mesa patches to llvm-2.9 just for natty so i'm just going to do libdrm and ddx updates automated and mesa by hand every week or so, thats what all the noise with failed builds was in the ppa yesterday
[21:21] <jcristau> you guys might want to sync up pixman 0.24.4.
[21:22] <Sarvatt> jcristau: just looked when you said uploaded, it takes an hour or two before we can, thanks for uploading that though!
[21:22] <Sarvatt> E: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (0.24.2-1). Aborting.
[21:23] <jcristau> ah right it's only on ftp-master not on the mirrors yet
[21:24] <ricotz> Sarvatt, yeah, i noticed ;)
[21:24] <Sarvatt> ricotz: thanks for retrying the mesa ones, noticed ya fixed it :)
[21:24] <ricotz> Sarvatt, did you had a look at ppa:ricotz/unstable, if you feel like 1.12 for oneiric copy it and rebuild the world against it
[21:25] <ricotz> oh, i didnt hit retry ;)
[21:25] <Sarvatt> whoa
[21:25] <Sarvatt> i dont remember drinking that much last night..?
[21:25] <ricotz> ;)
[21:25] <ricotz> hehe
[21:26] <Sarvatt> ricotz: wow, i think ppa's actually auto retry depwaits now
[21:26] <ricotz> oh, a depwait then this could be
[21:27] <Sarvatt> wasnt awake 13 hours ago to do it
[21:28] <ricotz> it probably doing it automatically then
[21:46] <RAOF> bryceh: That's not really my department (although I am still trying to get the velocity calculations to be more useful); DBO is your man for that.
[21:50] <Sarvatt> guess i should have refreshed the bug before marking the nvidia task invalid https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/929384
[21:50] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 929384 in glibc (Fedora) (and 2 other projects) "nvidia drivers broken by the recent libc update on i386 arch (affects: 31) (dups: 23) (heat: 278)" [Unknown,Unknown]
[21:51] <bryceh> Sarvatt, maybe leave it open assigned to tseliot for him to track?
[21:52] <Sarvatt> sounds good, he was going to bring it up with nvidia on a call
[22:05] <Sarvatt> hopefully i dont screw something up cherry-picking RAOF's mesa fix to debian-experimental this way http://paste.ubuntu.com/835828/
[22:06] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  I should have committed that to the debian-experimental branche, too.
[22:06] <RAOF> That looks right to me; thanks Sarvatt.
[22:57] <bryceh> RAOF, seems there are easily half a dozen bugs already filed on it
[22:57] <RAOF> Against xorg?
[22:57] <bryceh> unity
[22:58] <RAOF> Yeah.  As I say, I'm trying to work out how to give better data to unity.
[22:58] <Sarvatt> yay mesa 8.0
[23:18] <Sarvatt> still can't requestsync pixman
[23:51] <cnd> RAOF, bryceh: got a bit of a quandry
[23:51] <cnd> I have clickpad support working
[23:51] <cnd> it's pretty nice
[23:51] <cnd> it still has some issues with semi-mt devices, but overall it's a much-needed improvement
[23:52] <cnd> however, on synaptics semi-mt devices (and maybe others too) the mt data used for clickpad behavior comes at a different scan rate
[23:52] <cnd> this throws the pointer velocity acceleration profile off
[23:52] <cnd> so it feels like the pointer moves twice as fast
[23:53] <cnd> I don't know what to do :(
[23:53] <RAOF> Why does the reduced scan rate thorw the velocity calculation off?
[23:53] <cnd> maybe if it's synaptics branch we can kludge it by dividing the hw motion by some magic number?
[23:53] <cnd> RAOF, no idea
[23:54] <RAOF> The stuff that I've seen calculated velocity as dx/dt, which should be rate-independent.
[23:54] <cnd> one would think
[23:57] <bryceh> cnd, dividing by 2 sprang to mind, however I'd worry that would just mask bugs that'd only get found later
[23:57] <cnd> yeah
[23:58] <cnd> bryceh, I was thinking maybe for semi-mt synaptics trackpads only, divide by 2
[23:58] <bryceh> cnd, is your question about how to fix the issue, or more about whether to push it into the repo vs. hold back until it's solved?
[23:58] <cnd> well, both actually
[23:58] <bryceh> ok thought so ;-)
[23:59] <RAOF> It sounds like something I'd want to push to a PPA and get some opt-in testing.
[23:59] <bryceh> yeah, personally I'd also be reticent having it go in until the issue is at least understood if not fixed


[06:32] <flocculant> ochosi: well a laptop is a computer and so is a smart phone :p (main reason for saying was I'd not noticed before so thought it was something new)
[06:32] <flocculant> and re whisker - ack :)
[12:03] <ochosi> flocculant: i've been using 1.6 for so long i dont know if it's a change by heart. but at least i believe not
[12:26] <bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant, yeah, I think the "Computer" string has been there for a while
[12:30] <flocculant> :)
[12:31] <flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
[12:31] <bluesabre> hiya flocculant
[12:33] <flocculant> bluesabre: that bios bug is a bit nasty :p
[12:33] <flocculant> glad it's not some xfpackage :D
[12:34] <knome> oh
[12:34] <knome> didn't you hear it's actually caused by xflocculant
[12:34] <flocculant> hi knome
[12:34] <knome> ;)
[12:34] <flocculant> woohoo
[12:34] <knome> hello flocculant, bluesabre
[12:34] <flocculant> good for something then :D
[12:35] <bluesabre> :D
[12:36] <bluesabre> the xflocculant package prefills duplicate bug reports with swear words
[12:36] <flocculant> ha ha ha
[12:36] <knome> how christmas-spirity!
[12:36] <bluesabre> :D
[12:37] <knome> bluesabre, does it also draw elliptical circles on boot?
[12:37] <flocculant> knome: it does all that and more
[12:37] <flocculant> reporting bugs on that package installs any media player that can be found
[12:38] <knome> make sure you don't install xflocculant-bad let alone speaking of xflocculant-ugly
[12:38] <bluesabre> oh boy!
[12:38] <knome> the bug reports can get really nasty if you do that
[12:38] <flocculant> then finds bugs in them and reports those as duplicates
[12:38] <bluesabre> hahaha
[12:38] <bluesabre> great stuff
[12:38] <knome> the xflocculant-good package isn't exactly R either
[12:39] <flocculant> there is no xflocculant-good package ...
[12:39] <knome> haha
[12:39] <knome> i think i meant PG though
[12:39] <knome> of whatever
[12:39] <knome> those letter ratings are WEEEIRD
[12:39] <flocculant> yup
[12:39] <knome> just put the age number on the box
[12:39] <bluesabre> just confirmed
[12:39] <bluesabre> E: Unable to locate package xflocculant-good
[12:39] <flocculant> yup
[12:39] <flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha ha
[14:09] <ochosi> hey bluesabre
[14:26] <pleia2> knome: mind if I reboot the dev server for a new kernel?
[15:20] <flocculant> pleia2: saw the e-mail - tia :)
[15:21] <pleia2> :)
[16:16] <slickymaster> thanks pleia2, for the heads up on the server reboot
[16:17] <pleia2> welcome
[16:17] <slickymaster> :)
[17:05] <knome> pleia2, go ahead
[17:05] <knome> better do it before we launch the wallpaper contest
[17:05] <pleia2> in progress
[17:05] <knome> i'm trying to get the rest of the hacking on the wp plugin done today so i can push it to our dev server
[17:06] <knome> yup
[17:06] <pleia2> all done :)
[17:06] <knome> ta
[17:09] <knome> pleia2, do you remember if we allowed lp/openid logins last time with the wallpaper contest?
[17:09] <knome> i'm pretty sure we did, but want confirmation
[17:09] <knome> and when i say allowed i mean did we force that
[17:11] <pleia2> I don't remember
[17:13] <knome> ok
[17:20] <flocculant> knome: no we did, or yes we didn't :p
[17:23] <knome> :P
[17:28] <flocculant> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-02-17-22.00.log.html
[17:28] <knome> wall of text, sigh ;)
[17:28] <knome> fortunately i don't need the info bit now
[17:29] <knome> thanks for digging it up, i'll read it when i need the info :P
[17:29] <flocculant> kind of about 22:07 - we're talking about lp login and some wordpress openid plugin, which wasn't quite qhat we wanted
[17:30] <flocculant> all that aside - openid is often a pain - I've tried it and 'ubuntu' credentials didn't work at least once
[17:30] <knome> yeah, it can be wonky
[17:30] <knome> but tbh, if the alternative is to make people register "yet one more account", it's boo
[17:31] <flocculant> then don't expect logins
[17:31] <knome> but spam?
[17:31] <knome> nah, that's crappier
[17:31] <flocculant> but for how long ...
[17:31] <knome> how long what? spam?
[17:31] <flocculant> contest
[17:31] <knome> i thought we intended to keep this contest open for months
[17:32] <knome> so... no, it's not realistic that we open it for everybody
[17:32] <flocculant> not long then
[17:32] <knome> eg. we let people upload any kind of images on our server
[17:32] <knome> and we will publicly display them with no moderation
[17:32] <flocculant> logging in won't stop that
[17:32] <knome> no, but it will definitely slow t down
[17:32] <knome> it*
[17:32] <flocculant> nope
[17:33] <knome> it will, it did the last time :)
[17:33] <flocculant> you don't know that - you don't have anything to compare it with - first time for us :)
[17:34] <flocculant> anyway - I'll likely be the only voice wanting to make this easy for the community - so I'll say no more ;)
[17:35] <knome> i want to make it easy for the community, but not easy for the spammers
[17:35] <knome> i know we can't really get both
[17:35] <knome> so i'll err to the side of caution and make it a bit harder for the spammers :P
[17:35] <knome> fortunately this is on a server we can administer so we can adjust quickly if we start to see some crap
[17:35] <flocculant> well that's not quite true - you want to make sure it's only for people to put up their own content
[17:36] <knome> again, nobody outside the team submitted work that wasn't their own
[17:36] <flocculant> mmm
[17:36] <knome> so this is only limiting how much the team would have had word in what they started voting from
[17:37] <flocculant> and if team hadn't - how many contributed - off the top of your head number - less than 5 or so iirc
[17:37] <flocculant> anyway - not letting me draw me in to this :D
[17:37] <knome> probably, but it would have been a more serious "community" contest
[17:37] <knome> ;P
[17:37] <knome> pleia2, we have that "old" sticker stock
[17:37] <knome> pleia2, "do we want to" give it away as prizes?
[17:38] <knome> eg. let's get done with those old stickers
[17:38] <pleia2> sgtm
[17:38] <flocculant> lol
[17:38] <knome> if we seem to have a sensible amount of submitters, we can send one to each
[17:38] <knome> or treat the winners with a big bunch
[17:38] <knome> whatever :)
[17:39] <pleia2> ok :)
[17:40] <flocculant> knome: might be worth preparing the ground with some social stuff for it - before it's actually live
[17:40] <knome> flocculant, absolutely
[17:41] <knome> flocculant, though it doesn't really matter if the contest is open january 1 and we start playing the drums a week after
[17:41] <knome> as long as it's open for a long enough time for everybody to take part
[17:41] <flocculant> I guess so
[17:41] <knome> but yes, we'll do the social media stuff too obviously
[17:41] <knome> and blog article
[17:54] <knome> all but one TODO cleared from the code
[17:54] <knome> which is really POSTPONED
[17:56] <knome> haha, old wordpress
[17:56] <flocculant> thanks for working on it
[17:56] <knome> no problem
[17:56] <knome> and of course
[17:56] <knome> i want this to be as smooth as possible - as do you
[17:58] <knome> let's update that wp instance today
[18:04] <knome> hmm
[18:05] <knome> it would help if i had the correct setup there
[18:08] <knome> i didn't break anything! i didn't break anything!
[18:08] <knome> hooray
[18:09] <knome> as a prize for myself, i'll go iron a tablecloth...
[18:09] <knome> bbabl
[18:22] <knome> https://contest.xubuntu.org/help/
[18:22] <knome> ^ that says it all
[18:24] <pleia2> :D
[21:46] <knome> do we have any reason to prefer CC-BY 3.0 over 4.0?


[10:06] <ebarretto> usgjammy, it will be only available after the benchmarks are released, which so far they aren't
[17:20] <usgjammy> Thank you for the info ebarretto! I found a thread on the CIS community boards saying benchmark release tracking for end of July
[20:47] <filip> mdeslaur: I see it's up to date again, thank you! :)


[00:06] <astraljava> micahg: Damn, the preferred application still gets set to "No application selected", but I have no idea what causes it.
[10:32] <ochosi> hi everyone, checking in from fosdem
[10:44] <ochosi> bbl
[11:22] <ochosi> re
[11:35] <astraljava> Hi there Simon, having a good time?
[11:36] <ochosi> astraljava: yup :)
[11:36] <baizon> new page live, thanks guys <3
[11:36] <baizon> love it
[11:36] <ochosi> astraljava: you were interested in the wayland-talk, right?
[11:36] <astraljava> Sure.
[11:39] <ochosi> k, it's in ~4hrs, think i'll attends that lecture (gah, internet is slow here. most likely everyone is pulling stuff from git)
[11:41] <astraljava> Ok. I should be back from playing badminton at that time. Yeah I would think it's high traffic there. :)
[19:16] <baizon> hmm
[19:16] <baizon> are there plans to add the posibility to edit the applications menu?
[19:17] <baizon> with a "gui" application
[19:28] <Unit193> Already can
[19:29] <Unit193> Check the FAQ of the website :D
[19:29] <baizon> hmm
[19:29] <baizon> will do
[19:29] <pleia2> yay we have a faq!
[19:29] <baizon> damn
[19:30] <baizon> why isnt it installd?
[19:30] <Unit193> Something to do with having to force the recommends away
[19:30] <baizon> ok
[19:30] <Unit193> pleia2: I know!! I just had to say "check the FAQ" :D
[22:26] <knome> !faw
[22:26] <knome> mrr
[22:26] <knome> mrq
[22:26] <knome> !faq
[22:26] <knome> ...
[22:30] <knome> !faq
[22:30] <knome> !-faq
[22:30] <knome> !-faq-#xubuntu
[22:31] <knome> ^ !faq works in all #xubuntu -channels
[22:31] <GridCube> :)
[22:32] <knome> GridCube, thanks for gathering the faq!
[22:32] <GridCube> :D
[22:32] <GridCube> it was nothing really :)
[22:33] <knome> no, it was something
[22:33] <knome> i should copy my OOOOLD faq to xubuntu.org too
[22:33] <GridCube> :P
[22:33] <knome> http://open.knome.fi/2009/07/05/panels-disappearing-and-other-frequently-asked-questions/
[22:38] <GridCube> knome, for the "in the press" section: http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/xubuntu
[22:38] <knome> http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/2012/02/04/open-advice/
[22:38] <knome> interesting!!
[22:44] <knome> GridCube, updated at http://xubuntu.org/press/general/
[22:44] <GridCube> :D will tell you if i find more
[22:46] <knome> sure
[22:46] <GridCube> hey knome, your new wallpaper is meant for dual screens?
[22:46] <GridCube> i mean its loooong
[22:46] <knome> yep
[22:47] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/ : there are -left and -right for one-monitor setups
[22:49] <knome> holstein... if you think we lack some bot factoids at #xubuntu or generally, feel free to ping me :)
[22:49] <GridCube> i like it, but it feels... gloomy
[22:49] <knome> mmh. maybe a bit
[22:49] <knome> we could do a more bright version
[22:49] <GridCube> i would like if it where happier XD
[22:50] <knome> well, even if we don't ship that by default, i can provide files for such
[22:50] <knome> GridCube, sth like http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/old/wall-draft2.png
[22:50] <holstein> knome: cool... i need to use the bots more anyways
[22:50] <GridCube> i would like that people installing xubuntu will be welcome with a "Welcome :D We Are Happy You Are Here!"
[22:51] <knome> yeah, i'll think about that
[22:51] <knome> i thought that maybe we need to make it a bit more bright here and there
[22:51] <knome> so maybe that brings some of the uplifting feeling you're after :)
[22:51] <GridCube> :) i like that last one better
[22:53] <GridCube> :P maybe if it had a boat and people fishing, it would like bring a "happy quiet moment" feeling
[22:53] <knome> mmh, right
[22:53] <knome> maybe...
[22:53] <knome> maybe in the left part ;)
[22:53] <GridCube> :P yep like that bird
[22:55] <knome> yeah
[22:55] <knome> kind of a bit extra for those who have two monitors
[22:56] <knome> and with the boat, both sides would be good to use on single monitor too
[22:56] <knome> that's a great idea
[22:56] <knome> thanks! :)


[15:20] <ScottK> skaet, robbiew, ttx: FYI, clamav will need update before release.  I'm not going to bring it up in the release meeting itself because it involves an embargoed security issue.  We might make it by final freeze, but it might have to go in a bit later.
[15:20] <ttx> ScottK: ack
[15:20] <skaet> ScottK, ack.
[15:21] <robbiew> ScottK: thanks for the heads up
[15:22] <skaet> ScottK,  is there a bug number associated with it?
[15:22] <ScottK> Just a moment.
[15:23] <ScottK> Bug #625849 - but I doubt you'll be able to see it.
[15:23] <ubot4> ScottK: Bug 625849 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/625849 is private
[15:23]  * ScottK can only see it because he reported it.
[15:24] <skaet> Thanks.  :)
[16:50] <charlie-tca> any chance of getting the fsck back in the recovery menu?
[16:55] <cjwatson> /usr/share/recovery-mode/options/fsck still seems to be there ...?
[16:55] <cjwatson> dropped in karmic, restored in lucid, no changes in maverick
[16:56] <cjwatson> it triggers it on the next reboot, to avoid problems with some services running in single-user mode
[16:57] <charlie-tca> but it doesn't show up if I go to the recovery mode menu
[16:57] <charlie-tca> It helps to be able to have the user run it manually sometimes
[18:16] <ScottK> skaet: One thing that I don't recall coming up during the meeting is Ubuntu theme updates.  I recall seeing some discussion on the Ayatana ML that an update was prepared and aimed Maverick.
[18:16] <ScottK> robbiew: ^^^
[18:18] <robbiew> hmmm...I wasn't aware of it, but that doesn't mean it's not a possibility
[18:20] <ScottK> robbiew: Also discussed in #ayatana ~ 5 or 6 hours ago.
[18:21] <robbiew> ok
[18:21] <skaet> ScottK, Thanks for the heads up.
[18:21] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[18:35] <iulian> ScottK: Mail sent.
[18:35]  * iulian wonders if he missed something.
[18:39]  * ScottK looks
[18:40] <ScottK> iulian: Looks good.  Thanks.
[18:51] <iulian> Excellent.


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[07:13] !dmwaters:*! Good day all, we appear to be having some problems with our Australian server. I'm taking a look at it now.