[00:20] <jbicha> mwhudson: it's because network-manager isn't ready to migrate and it's part of the ppp transition
[00:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted php7.2 [source] (bionic-proposed) [7.2.24-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[01:22] <mwhudson> jbicha, bdmurray: ah ha
[01:23] <mwhudson> oh look netplan and systemd
[01:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted systemd [source] (bionic-proposed) [237-3ubuntu10.52]
[02:14] <mwhudson> bdmurray, jbicha: is the netplan failure just network-manager changing its output or something deeper i wonder
[02:39] <mwhudson> hmm probably not that simple
[04:40] <mwhudson> grar ok i think i have fixes for both of these failures
[04:47] <mwhudson> nothing like three uploads of systemd in three days
[05:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted systemd [source] (hirsute-proposed) [247.3-3ubuntu3.5]
[07:24] <mwhudson> ok netplan and systemd uploaded that will hopefully work with each other and the network-manager in proposed
[08:14] <laney> wasn't there some breakage between the new glibc and systemd that needed fixing in systemd?
[08:15] <laney> ah I guess it didn't migrate yet so it's ok
[08:25] <mwhudson> laney: which breakage do you mean? i've fixed at least some things like that...
[08:26] <laney> mwhudson: I was thinking of the change in ubuntu5/6 and how glibc was trying to migrate without systemd
[08:26] <mwhudson> ah
[08:27] <mwhudson> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output_notest.txt shows glibc trying to migrate with systemd
[08:27] <mwhudson> and failing because of that rando ruby package
[08:29] <laney> extra test triggers should make britney insert its own dependency that ties things together, then it would happen at the excuses stage
[08:29] <laney> yummy
[08:31] <laney> ruby-mizuho ?
[08:31] <schopin> for my education, could you tell me where to look in this file to come out with the conclusion regarding glibc being blocked by a ruby package?
[08:32] <laney> schopin: it's a bit of art, but in this case search for 'glibc/' and look below the huge list of packages
[08:33] <schopin> Oh, OK. So basically britney tries to migrate everything in one big batch, this fails because of ruby-mizuho, and because of that it tries the packages one by one.
[08:33] <laney> I think it tries them one by one first ("trying: glibc" is earlier in the file)
[08:33] <laney> but yeah, then it's got some smarts to try to calculate what should go together
[08:34] <schopin> First mention I get is in the huge list :/
[08:35] <schopin> Thanks for the explanation!
[08:37] <laney> mwhudson: do you have a handle on that mizuho thing?
[08:40] <mwhudson> laney: not really
[08:40] <mwhudson> it's because the new libxml2 declares a breaks: on something
[08:50] <laney> yeah, ruby-nokogiri, we should take that I guess?
[08:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected curl [source] (focal-proposed) [7.68.0-1ubuntu2.7]
[09:01] <mwhudson> laney: yeah there's a new one in experimental, hopefully it doesn't break any of the 1 million reverse build depends
[09:01] <mwhudson> (it's some kind of documentation generator?)
[09:04] <laney> something like that
[09:04] <laney> mapreri: any insight as the person who added the breaks?
[09:08] <seb128> mwhudson, https://github.com/sparklemotion/nokogiri/issues/2257 seems the reason, maybe just backport that fix if you don't want to take the experimental version?
[09:09] <seb128> the patch is simple https://github.com/sparklemotion/nokogiri/commit/7c10c01477
[09:10] <seb128> we would need an libxml upload to update the breaks version
[09:15] <mwhudson> i guess looking at the diff between what we have and what is in experimental would be a good idea
[09:18] <mwhudson> uh, it is large
[09:19] <mwhudson> wait, that fix is a patch to libxml2 itself?
[09:21] <laney> yes
[09:21] <laney> embedded copy or something
[09:21] <laney> there's a link to the upstream fix in the issue
[09:26] <mwhudson> ok so we can do a libxml2 upload adding that patch and dropping the breaks
[09:33] <mwhudson> it applies cleanly enough...
[09:33] <mwhudson> laney, seb128, mapreri: look ok? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wx2KdSxssS/
[09:34] <laney> lgtm but I don't know about the specific problem being broken/fixed by this
[09:35] <mwhudson> yeah, i'm just trusting upstreams basically
[09:35] <mwhudson> maybe i'll sleep on it :)
[09:38] <laney> yolo iy
[09:38] <laney> it*
[09:41] <ginggs> mwhudson: mapreri asks if you can wait
[09:42] <ginggs> he'll pick that in debian and upload to unstable later today
[09:42] <mwhudson> ginggs: ok
[09:44] <ginggs> mwhudson: sleep well!
[09:45] <laney> where's the side conversation happening? :O
[09:46] <ginggs> laney: mapreri is afk, i have him on telegram
[09:46] <laney> ah
[09:54] <mwhudson> if someone could look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docker.io/+bug/1942276 and try to understand what is going on, that would be gret
[09:54] <mwhudson> *great
[09:54] <mwhudson> (and this is possibly a good reason to not let glibc migrate just yet)
[10:21] <ginggs> systemd + network-mananger passed together https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/systemd/impish/arm64
[10:21] <ginggs> but cryptsetup seems bad
[10:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: llvm-toolchain-12 (focal-proposed/main) [1:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~20.04.3 => 1:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~20.04.4] (i386-whitelist)
[10:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: llvm-toolchain-12 (hirsute-proposed/universe) [1:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~21.04.1 => 1:12.0.0-3ubuntu1~21.04.2] (i386-whitelist)
[10:41] <xnox> apw:  please process binary-only removals of raspi ABI that got superseded in impish-proposed as listed under https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#linux-raspi
[10:41] <xnox> old binaries left on arm64: linux-buildinfo-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-headers-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-image-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-modules-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-modules-extra-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-raspi-headers-5.13.0-1005, linux-raspi-tools-5.13.0-1005, linux-tools-5.13.0-1005-raspi (from 5.13.0-1005.6)
[10:41] <xnox> old binaries left on armhf: linux-buildinfo-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-buildinfo-5.13.0-1005-raspi-nolpae, linux-headers-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-headers-5.13.0-1005-raspi-nolpae, linux-image-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-image-5.13.0-1005-raspi-nolpae, linux-modules-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-modules-5.13.0-1005-raspi-nolpae, linux-modules-extra-5.13.0-1005-raspi,
[10:41] <xnox> linux-modules-extra-5.13.0-1005-raspi-nolpae, linux-raspi-headers-5.13.0-1005, linux-raspi-tools-5.13.0-1005, linux-tools-5.13.0-1005-raspi, linux-tools-5.13.0-1005-raspi-nolpae (from 5.13.0-1005.6)
[10:41] <xnox> then with arm64 override, raspi should be able to migrate
[10:45] <LocutusOfBorg> tjaalton, ^^ please? llvm-toolchain-12
[11:25] <cpaelzer> arr  - these words are too overloaded for search engines, and my memory too bad. Was there another way than adding a no-op -Xubuntu1 upload to prevent syncing of a package once we open for 22.04?
[11:27] <rbasak> There is a "never autosync" list but I think entries in there are supposed to be permanent
[11:28] <cpaelzer> well, I want to resolve it some day, but plenty of rust things prevent me short term
[11:29] <rbasak> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+junk/sync-blacklist/view/head:/sync-blacklist.txt
[11:29] <cpaelzer> I guess it is auto-sync from ubuntu-archive-tools so I can take a look there
[11:29] <cpaelzer> ah you found it while I'm typing, thanks rbasak
[11:32] <cpaelzer> :-) while checking out I realized I had it on disk already :-)
[11:33] <cjwatson> The sync-blacklist isn't necessarily permanent IME
[11:38] <cpaelzer> thanks, I'll consider filing an MP thre once I'm sure
[11:38] <cjwatson> You can't file an MP since it's a +junk branch
[11:39] <cjwatson> (That likely needs to be changed at some point, preferably along with moving it to git)
[11:40] <cpaelzer> oh indeed, thanks for the hint
[11:40] <cpaelzer> one less time bzr will drive me mad via +junk
[13:12] <apw> xnox, NBS wackage
[16:02] <bdmurray> ginggs: IIUC we need a new version of libxml2 to help with the glibc migration, is that right?
[16:03] <ginggs> bdmurray: that's correct
[16:04] <ginggs> 2.9.12+dfsg-3 already uploaded to unstable
[16:04] <ginggs> can be sync'd as soon as launchpad knows about it
[16:06] <bdmurray> ginggs: okay, let me know if you don't get to it and I can keep an eye out
[16:07] <ginggs> bdmurray: ok, thanks
[18:34] <ginggs> bdmurray: it doesn't look like libxml2 was picked up in the last import, so I guess it will be in ~6 hours.  will you sync please?
[18:35] <bdmurray> ginggs: will do
[18:35] <ginggs> ta!
[19:55] <kanashiro> could anyone from the release team acknowledge this FFe request? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fence-agents/+bug/1942368
[19:55] <kanashiro> it is a very simple change
[20:12] <bdmurray> done
[20:24] <kanashiro> bdmurray, thanks!
[22:36] <bdmurray> mwhudson: I've sync'ed libxml
[22:37] <mwhudson> bdmurray: thanks


[12:43] <seb128> hey there, git imports pages on launchpad have a "next import is scheduled in ... <Import Now>" action, is it possible to trigger it via launchpadlib?
[12:45] <cjwatson> seb128: https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#code_import-requestImport
[12:45] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks, I was unsure since the code_import section subtitle is ' A code import to a Bazaar Branch. '
[12:45] <seb128> but I'm doing a git to git import
[12:46] <seb128> I guess I could have tried before asking, thanks for replying!
[12:46] <cjwatson> seb128: Oh, yeah, that is a little unclear :-)
[12:48] <cjwatson> seb128: I proposed https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/+git/launchpad/+merge/414353 to fix that
[12:48] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks!


[00:54] <ailo> scott-upstairs, ScottL, I could look into the problem with the gtk theme problem tomorrow. I thought about hanging around att #ubuntu-desktop and perhaps #ubuntu-devel to see if someone could help me find out what causes it. If that's ok..
[02:21] <ScottL> ailo, absolutely :)
[03:47]  * holstein checking in on the back scroll...
[07:39] <Kokito> howdy


[16:37] <jamespage> gema, I think the tomcat smoke tests should sort themselves out tomorrow - I updated the last bit today...
[16:37] <jamespage> sorry thats taken so long - its been a bit of a learning exercise for me!
[16:41] <gema> jamespage: no problem! one think less to worry about :D
[16:41] <gema> jamespage: in any case, you made it to my release report
[16:41] <gema> ;)
[16:41]  * jamespage hopes that was in a good way :-)
[16:41] <gema> jamespage: haha, the bug, but yeah, I will mention your rescuing of jenkins too
[16:42] <jamespage> ta
[20:38] <me4oslav> cr3 are you here? :) I have a new home screen banner for you :P
[21:10] <roadmr> me4oslav: hi! well you could add it to your existing merge request and resubmit (just add a comment to the MR explaining the changes and select "resubmit" in the "type" dropbox)
[21:11] <me4oslav> roadmr I know :) I will do that, I was just making cr3's irc blinking :)
[21:11] <roadmr> me4oslav: oh, sneaky :)
[21:12] <cr3> me4oslav: I've become immune to blinking from ignoring roadmr all the time :)
[21:13] <me4oslav> cr3 lol! :D cheeky
[21:14] <cr3> me4oslav: seriously though, please feel free to add to your existing merge request and resubmit. I have to admit that I haven't made much progress since yesterday, it's been merge request galore lately
[21:14] <me4oslav> cr3, sure doing it after 5 min :)
[21:25] <me4oslav> cr3 roadmr - done :) https://code.launchpad.net/~kokoto-java/checkbox/new-QT-home-screen/+merge/114021 (the diff is still updating) BTW: new baner: http://i.imgur.com/7vjZf.png
[21:31] <cr3> me4oslav: dude, you've gone wild with the effects!
[21:31] <me4oslav> cr3, what effects? :)
[21:32] <roadmr> cr3: tbh I like it, it sidesteps the "clickable icons" issue
[21:34] <cr3> me4oslav: s/effects/graphics/
[21:34] <cr3> roadmr: absolutely, I had forgotten about that problem!
[21:34] <me4oslav> btw, cr3 the banner isn't mine. A guy on Google+ designed it (as written in the commit) And I happen to agree with roadmr, it does fix the "clickable icons" issue. When i first fired checkbox qt I did tried to click the banner icons -_-
[21:37] <cr3> me4oslav: we had a very productive session about the checkbox user experience during the last UDS, I think everyone agreed on that problem :)
[21:39] <me4oslav> cr3 great, now I feel even worse that I haven't been at any UDS :D
[21:40] <cr3> me4oslav: but, it's as if you were there though since you also agree :)
[21:40] <me4oslav> cr3 Yup :) Clicking pointlessly on them for like 30 sec was fun, through :D
[21:41] <cr3> me4oslav: if you had to click 30 secs to finally realize you couldn't, maybe there's a reason why you weren't at UDS :)
[21:43] <me4oslav> cr3 - yes, I over think super small details. Had to be sure that they weren't clickabe, so P clicked and clicked and clicked ... :P
[21:45] <cr3> me4oslav: that actually sounds like a cool super power, good to see you're using it for good rather than evil
[21:48] <cr3> need to jet, cheerio folks!


[09:22] <rmg51> Morning
[12:10] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[13:18] <lazyPower> o/
[13:18] <lazyPower> i stole icey this week while we're in DC :D
[13:18] <icey> yo lazyPower
[13:19] <lazyPower> do i know you? :P
[13:23] <lazyPower> oh right, you're the guy next to me haaaaa ;D


[10:14] <hyperair> asac: ping (regarding some ia32-libs stuff)
[10:18] <asac> hyperair: yeah. go ahead
[10:18] <hyperair> asac: pulse is broken.
[10:18] <hyperair> the pulse bits in ia32-libs anyway
[10:18] <hyperair> skype throws out a whole lot of stuff about not being able to connect to pulseaudio
[10:19] <hyperair> and flash refuses to use it either
[10:19] <asac> so flash doesnt use pulse anyway
[10:19] <asac> it uses alsa
[10:19] <asac> skype i am not sure
[10:19] <hyperair> er
[10:19] <hyperair> i meant the libasound2-plugins bit
[10:19] <hyperair> the pulse plugin in alsa
[10:19] <hyperair> both of them use it
[10:19] <asac> yeah
[10:19] <asac> are you on karmic?
[10:19] <hyperair> yes i am
[10:20] <asac> for me flash sound work
[10:20] <hyperair> it does?
[10:20] <asac> with 32bit plugin on amd64
[10:20] <hyperair> it does for me when i have nothing running
[10:20] <hyperair> =\
[10:20] <asac> not sure if that means that it uses puslse
[10:20] <hyperair> check using pavucontrol
[10:20] <hyperair> pulseaudio auto suspends-on-idle
[10:20] <hyperair> so if nothing uses pulse, it'll release your sound card
[10:20] <hyperair> and flash will "work" even if not through pulse
[10:21] <asac> hyperair: i can play youtube and rhythmbox
[10:22] <asac> but youtube doesnt show up in pavucontrol
[10:22] <asac> but afaik it never did that anyway
[10:22] <asac> do you have a 32-bit system to check?
[10:23] <hyperair> er.. it's on intrepid
[10:23] <hyperair> i'll have to upgrade to karmic first.
[10:23] <asac> well. intrepid has severe issues with pa afaik
[10:24] <asac> so better upgradfe
[10:28] <hyperair> intrepid was the rock solid one
[10:28] <hyperair> for x86 anyway
[10:28] <hyperair> i used it on my notebook
[10:29] <hyperair> anyway is it possible to drop libasound2-plugins stuff from ia32-libs?
[10:29] <hyperair> there seems to be a lib32asound2-plugins
[10:29] <hyperair> perhaps it'd be better to depend on that
[10:33] <asac> hyperair: hmm. not sure. most likely we cannot do such things in intrepid anyway. so please checkout jaunty/karmic
[10:33] <hyperair> i think you're mistaking something
[10:34] <hyperair> my 32-bit machine is running intrepid.
[10:34] <hyperair> my 64-bit machine which is having problems is karmic.
[10:34] <hyperair> my 32-bit machine is a desktop, the 64-bit is a laptop.
[10:36] <hyperair> i personally think that the issue comes from using an outdated version of libasound2-plugins in ia32-libs
[10:37] <hyperair> by the way, the 64-bit flash works with pulseaudio.
[10:40] <fta> drop it manually, i have an update of ia32-libs planed for really soon (just need the gtk patches in)
[10:40] <hyperair> alright
[10:40] <fta> it shouldn't be that outdated, as i totally refreshed ia32-libs not so long ago
[10:41] <hyperair> i think it's using jaunty debs.
[10:41] <hyperair> at least, sources.list.deb shows jaunty deb lines
[10:41] <fta> right, but it was fine until recently. btw, it's far less outdated than it was before
[10:42] <hyperair> heh i see
[10:42] <hyperair> i only started using x64 in jaunty
[10:42] <hyperair> and now in karmic
[10:42] <hyperair> so i didn't notice =\
[10:47] <hyperair> hmm just replaced the alsa-libs one, and it didn't work. guess it's an outdated libpulse then
[10:48] <fta> could be anything, who knows with pulse
[10:48] <hyperair> heh yeah
[11:03] <asac> fta: did you check whether the gtk i built once fixes your issues?
[11:03] <asac> if so i willl just push it upstream now
[11:04] <fta> hm, nope, will try later today
[11:04] <asac> let me check if the version is more or less recent still
[11:07] <asac> @time
[11:07] <asac> !info xulrunner
[11:19] <hyperair> fta: aha! it's libpulse0!
[11:19] <hyperair> skype goes through a series of underruns now but flash works nicely.
[11:20] <asac> makes sense
[11:20] <asac> so just outdated
[11:21] <hyperair> yep
[12:11] <asac> fta: new gtk uploaded to sandbox ppa https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+archive/sandbox
[12:11] <asac> i will check if that works too after build has finished
[13:07] <asac> fta: so please rename /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/i686-pc-linux-gnu to i486 and also add another link: /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0/ /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/i486-pc-linux-gnu
[13:08] <asac> fta: then add libgail.so ... and _remove_ libatk-bridge.so
[13:08] <asac> which will tear down everything because of dbus issues
[13:08] <asac> fta: and try the gtk package in my sandbox (which is likely the upstream fix)
[13:10] <asac> questions? ;)
[13:11] <fta2> mconnor, is smil supposed to be working in trunk now?
[13:11] <fta2> asac, no question ;)
[13:14] <asac> fta2: actually i think you might even not need the gtk patch at all ;)
[13:14] <asac> so just try to setup the links like above
[13:15] <asac> yeah. pretty sure gtk patch is superfluous. its just that the GTK_HOST link needs to be directly in pkglibdir ;)
[13:16] <asac> glib patch is still needed though, but i will double check that after lunch
[13:16] <asac> now going for lunch
[13:30] <fta2> asac, wtf? http://paste.ubuntu.com/191612/
[13:33] <fta2> ok, damned Recommends
[13:33] <fta2> Apt::Install-Recommends "false" to the rescue
[14:08] <fta2> asac, now i remember why i stopped working on the ia32-libs update last month, it's because of this: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/db4.6/4.6.21-13
[14:10] <asac> hmm
[14:10] <asac> right
[14:44] <fta2> dtchen, what happened to libpulsecore9 in karmic? has it been merged in something else?
[14:51] <fta2> asac, damn, i need this one too: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/xcb-util/0.3.5-1
[14:56] <asac> fta2: so i think that db-4... "just" needs a libtool update
[14:56] <asac> "just", because I tried it and failed miserably ;)
[14:57] <asac> let me check xcb
[15:08] <fta2> asac, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=487788#10
[15:14] <asac> fta2: seems they didnt attach the actual patch they are talking about
[15:18] <fta2> asac, it's not in 2.12.9-4?
[15:19] <asac> oh right. most likely yes.
[15:19] <asac> but it only really fixes the meta files from what i understand
[15:19] <asac> the rest is a missing link to libdir like i said above ;)
[15:27] <asac> bug taching the patch directly (not folded=
[15:27] <asac> oops
[15:27] <asac> bug 357651
[15:31] <fta2> asac, i fixed that for 3.6 and tb3, but not for 3.5
[15:31] <fta2> asac, the reason is that we will migrate soon
[15:50] <fta2> asac, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/190227/comments/10
[16:13] <asac> fta2: migrate soon?
[16:14] <asac> fta2: i think we should treat this similar to how we treat .desktop files atm
[16:14] <asac> fta2: makes sens?
[16:14] <asac> should match quite well imo
[16:14] <asac> maybe we can even create this .xml file from the .desktop file itself
[16:14] <asac> e.g. no need to maintain a copy
[16:16] <fta2> i mean, firefox is listed in gnome-control-center, so if it's also in ff-3.5, no idea what will happen, a duplicate?
[16:18] <asac> fta2: i would think the idea is to remove all hard-coded stuff from control-center and make our packages ship stuff instead
[16:18] <asac> so we can decide what shows up there and in which way
[16:18] <fta2> oh, ok then, but it was hard to justify just because of PPAs
[16:19] <fta2> that's why i touched everything but ff3.5
[16:19] <asac> fta2: so does gnome-control-center currently ship a firefox.xml?
[16:20] <fta2> no, everything in one giant xml file
[16:21] <asac> fta2: maybe it does smart stuff to not duplicate entries if they refer to the same path?
[16:21] <asac> anyway. think i will check that out
[16:23] <fta2> it's probably doign smart things. i has ff-3.6 as custom browser, i upgraded to a 3.6 shipping the xml file, it moved automatically to ff-3.6 as preferred
[16:23] <asac> hmm
[16:23] <asac> fta2: do you have ffox-3.0 removed?
[16:23] <fta2> s/has/had
[16:23] <fta2> no
[16:25] <asac> fta2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/191734/ thats gnome-control-center content
[16:25] <asac> fta2: ah fount the xml
[16:26] <asac> so tbird 3.0 already ships stuff? nice
[16:27] <asac> so one idea would be to do the same we do with .desktop wrt to branding. but also dont install if the current package ships the /usr/bin/firefox link
[16:28] <fta2> -rw-r--r-- 1 fta fta 577632132 2009-04-17 23:18 ia32-libs_2.7ubuntu5.tar.gz
[16:28] <fta2> d'oh!
[16:29] <fta2> oh, it's an old one
[16:29] <fta2> -rw-r--r-- 1 fta fta 617070041 2009-06-09 17:20 ia32-libs_2.7ubuntu7.tar.gz
 fta: so please rename /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/i686-pc-linux-gnu to i486 and also add another link: /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0/ /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/i486-pc-linux-gnu
[16:37] <fta2> asac, it's still called i686
[16:37] <fta2> and what about the 2nd part? you want a link to /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/ix86-pc-linux-gnu *and* to /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/ix86-pc-linux-gnu  ??
[16:38] <asac> fta2: i686 is wrong now
[16:38] <asac> change that to i486 again
[16:38] <asac> it was just because the last jaunty build of gtk was busted
[16:38] <asac> fta2: yes. ship the current link (with i486) and ship a link /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/ix86-pc-linux-gnu -> /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0
[16:39] <asac> that should work
[16:42] <fta2> asac, i still have i686 on karmic..
[16:42] <asac> fta2: how do you know?
[16:43] <fta2> root@cube:~ # ls -l /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/
[16:43] <fta2> total 24
[16:43] <fta2> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2009-06-08 21:23 engines
[16:43] <fta2> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   29 2009-05-18 11:23 i686-pc-linux-gnu -> ../../../lib32/gtk-2.0/2.10.0
[16:43] <fta2> root@cube:~ # lsb_release -d
[16:43] <fta2> Description:    Ubuntu karmic (development branch)
[16:43] <asac> fta2: well. that link is created by ia32libs package. ... which is wrong
[16:43] <fta2> oh
[16:43] <fta2> lol
[16:43] <asac> fta2: run strings on libgtk-x11.so | grep i.86
[16:44] <asac> what i am saying is that the current link is wrong now and should be i486 again ;)
[16:44] <asac> fta2: you can also check that by strace -f -estat chromium-browser | grep 486
[16:44] <asac> hmm.
[16:44] <asac> of course not if you are using ia32libs (which is still jaunty state)
[16:44] <asac> trust me ;)
[16:45] <asac> after updating to gtk from karmic its i486 again
[16:48] <BUGabundo> hey asac fta
[16:48] <fta2> hi
[16:49] <asac> hi BUGabundo
[16:49] <fta2> asac, "ship a link /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/ix86-pc-linux-gnu -> /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0" why is that needed? for modules?
[16:50] <asac> fta2: yes. for everything that isnt in the versioned dir
[16:50] <asac> so we basically have /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/VERSION/ix86-pc-linux-gnu and /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/ix86-pc-linux-gnu
[16:50] <asac> with ix86 being i486
[16:50] <asac> for everything but jaunty
[16:52] <fta2> asac, what's wrong with libatk-bridge.so?
[16:53] <asac> fta2: give it a try ;)
[16:54] <asac> fta2: i think that the corba impl it uses doesnt speak proper network encoding over the wire
[16:54] <asac> so running 32-bit calls on 64-bit causes failure
[16:54] <asac> leading to apps not starting at all
[16:54] <asac> canberra works well though
[16:54] <asac> so i suspect its really the corba that isnt up to multiarch
[16:55] <fta2> hm, i wanted to document the reason
[16:56] <asac> fta2: say it doesnt work in multi-arch cases; symptom: 32-bit apps dont start anymore
[16:56] <fta2>         # Drop libatk-bridge.so for now, it's causing troubles
[16:56] <fta2>         rm -f $(DEST)$(ROOT)/usr/lib$(SUFFIX)/gtk-2.0/modules/libatk-bridge.so
[16:56] <fta2> ;)
[16:56] <asac> fta2: yeah make that:
[16:57] <asac> # Drop libatk-bridge.so which seems to be not ready for multiarch
[16:57] <asac> but your comment is also ok
[16:58] <fta2> i thought that guy meant it was ok for him: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/190227/comments/10
[16:59] <asac> fta2: check it on your own ;)
[16:59] <asac> for me it killed everything (chromium, flash, firefox upstream)
[17:00] <asac> i can check firefox upstream again - i am not 100% sure about that atm
[17:01] <asac> fta2: have you verified if chrome really does this ugly daily cronjob?
[17:08] <fta2> no, based on the paste from jorge and report from several users, it seems it's doing it
[17:08] <asac> good. thats definitly adware/malware like behaviour
[17:09] <asac> adding the sources line on install is ok ... but readding ...pfft
[17:10] <asac> so is there a huge rant somewhere about this behaviour already?
[17:10] <asac> did you spot something?
[17:10] <BUGabundo> I didn't
[17:11] <fta2> nope
[17:11] <BUGabundo> not at the blogsfer at least
[17:11] <BUGabundo> I could check the foruns dough
[17:11] <asac> no need to ;)
[17:11] <asac> just was curious if something spilled over already
[17:11] <fta2> a lot of confusion between chrome and chromium, official and non official, packaging vs fork
[17:11] <BUGabundo> eheh
[17:11] <BUGabundo> yeah
[17:11] <BUGabundo> and google builds, cx, and chromium too
[17:13] <asac> fta2: so do we know how their release process work? they branch once a week and then roll out for a week to reach 100% diffusion?
[17:13] <asac> and then start the process again?
[17:13] <asac> (i am talking about how their stable process will look like)
[17:13] <fta2> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1176370
[17:14] <fta2> asac, i'm not sure. they have the Dev Channel which is about weekly
[17:15] <asac> fta2: i thought they do weeklies on stable channel too
[17:15] <asac> at least on win
[17:15] <asac> ok break before meeting starts
[17:17] <BUGabundo> hey micahg
[17:17] <micahg> hi BUGabundo
[17:19] <fta2> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/191766/
[17:20] <asac> fta2: yeah. wanna push that to a ppa so i can check? or directly in the archvie (both works for me)
[17:21] <asac> fta2: i would say:
[17:21] <asac> "add a symlink for the gtk+2.0 modules (LP: #369498)
[17:21] <asac> "
[17:21] <asac> ->
[17:21] <fta2> the src package should be ~ 630 MB
[17:21] <fta2> inflation
[17:21] <asac> "add a GTK_HOST symlink to gtk+2.0 pkglibdir to support modules"
[17:22] <asac> s/GTK_//
[17:22] <BUGabundo> fta 19 pages about chrome vs chromium autch
[17:23] <fta2> BUGabundo, it starts ~ comment #134
[17:23] <BUGabundo> and who is this ubulette ?
[17:23] <asac> good question ;)
[17:23] <asac> i think i know him
[17:23] <BUGabundo> "I try to keep the packaging in sync with all the good stuff the Chromium authors are bringing in. Sometimes, the daily PPA is making them nervous as it constantly exposes unfinished and untuned features, leading to unwanted bug reports."
[17:24] <BUGabundo> duh
[17:24] <BUGabundo> its FTA
[17:24] <BUGabundo> lol
[17:24] <BUGabundo> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=249378
[17:24] <BUGabundo> "Launchpad Account fta"
[17:24] <BUGabundo> eheh
[17:26] <fta2> what's so funny about this?
[17:27] <asac> i think BUGabundo just makes fun on of his own this time
[17:27] <BUGabundo> asac: :)
[17:27] <fta2> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7420120&postcount=37
[17:27] <BUGabundo> fta I did not know it was you !
[17:29] <hyperair> speaking of daily ppas..
[17:29] <hyperair> fta2: i'm curious to know if you use cron to automate that.
[17:29]  * BUGabundo hides
[17:30] <fta2> yes i do
[17:30] <hyperair> BUGabundo: unwanted bug reports are why the banshee devs didn't want a banshee-daily ppa. they agreed to it due to the banshee-as-default-for-karmic-or-something spec
[17:30] <hyperair> fta2: and your gpg key isn't protected by a passphrase?
[17:30] <fta2> correct, the one i use to sign the packages
[17:30] <hyperair> aah i see.
[17:31] <fta2> but noone has access to that box
[17:31] <hyperair> aah so in that sense it's secure.
[17:31] <hyperair> if only i could leave my desktop running like that. =\
[17:32] <hyperair> (mom won't let me)
[17:32] <fta2> :)
[17:32] <hyperair> heheh =p
[17:32] <asac> now meeting in #ubuntu-desktop
[17:32] <hyperair> i was considerign using cron on my notebook for that, but i couldn't come up with a secure enough way to debsign my packages automatically.
[17:32] <fta2> asac, when you create a 2nd ppa, do you share the quota too?
[17:34] <asac> fta2: i think the quota is not shared
[17:34] <fta2> hyperair, even if you write a wrapper to sign correctly, you have to store the password in the box somehow
[17:34] <BUGabundo> ohh great
[17:35] <hyperair> fta2: yeah, that's right. i'm considering it hooking up to my gpg agent
[17:35] <hyperair> seahorse-agent.
[17:35] <BUGabundo> that's not safe :\
[17:35] <hyperair> yup, it isn't
[17:35] <hyperair> because i'll get accustomed to giving my gpg agent my key
[17:35] <hyperair> without knowing what it wants it for
[17:37] <fta2> asac, chromium now has zygote by default in linux. it means you can continue to use the browser even if your upgrade or remove it
[17:37] <fta2> -your+you
[17:37] <BUGabundo> hyperair: and it stays open a few extra minutes too
[17:37] <hyperair> BUGabundo: that's fine by me. i set it to 10 mins.
[17:38] <fta2> daily ppa is task for a server, not for a laptop
[17:38] <fta2> +a
[17:38] <hyperair> heh yeah =(
[17:38] <hyperair> don't have a safe server anywhere, though
[17:38] <BUGabundo> fta just saw a bug on chromium
[17:39] <BUGabundo> ctrl+enter doesn't place www. & .com
[17:39] <BUGabundo> it works on Windows
[17:39] <hyperair> well, i guess i'm content with running the script manually =\
[17:40] <asac> fta2: dont sure i understand what that means
[17:41] <fta2> asac, the problem with have with xul upgrades while ff is running
[17:41] <fta2> -with+we
[17:41] <fta2> d'oh!
[17:41] <hyperair> fta2: having issues with the keyboard today? =p
[17:42] <fta2> with my brain
[17:42] <hyperair> hehe
[17:47] <asac> fta2: so what does zygote do?
[17:47] <asac> load libs/files in background?
[17:49] <fta2> it's now the 1st/main process, it opens fd for the binary and the .pak files and keep them forever
[17:50] <fta2> so all children receive those fds from zygote instead of trying to open their files by themselves
[17:53] <fta2> ok, pushing ia32-libs to my new ppa
[17:53] <fta2> done
[17:57] <hyperair> woohoo
[17:58] <hyperair> does it have a new libpulse0? =P
[17:58] <fta2> yes
[17:58] <fta2> https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive/staging
[17:59] <fta2> asac, ^^
[17:59] <asac> great. watiting for the bits to appear
[18:00] <fta2> pf, it's already almost full
[18:01] <fta2> ok, i have to run. cu in ~2h.
[18:44] <BUGabundo> fta: how can I search for xubuntu-desktop seed on popcon?
[18:45] <BUGabundo> I must be blind, can't find a search anywhere
[18:46] <asac> BUGabundo: use firefox ctrl+f
[18:47] <asac> fta: there is a problem with your dailies
[18:47] <asac> at least the mail doesnt look right ;)
[18:47] <asac> "svn: Unrecognized URL scheme for 'http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src'"
[18:47] <BUGabundo> asac: but how can i filter karmic ?
[18:50] <asac> not sure where you are looking at ;)
[18:52] <BUGabundo> asac: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst
[18:52] <BUGabundo> trying to get ~ number of xubuntu karmic users for charlie-tca
[19:03] <BUGabundo> bye
[19:20] <fta> back
[19:30] <fta> asac, hmm.. indeed
[19:30] <fta> $ svn log --limit 1 http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src
[19:30] <fta> svn: Unrecognized URL scheme for 'http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src'
[19:31] <fta> new subversion is broken
[19:46] <asac> fta: how about having your bot machine run a stable release ;)?
[19:46] <fta> lol
[19:46] <asac> jk
[19:47] <fta> bug 385318
[19:50] <fta> asac, so... ia32-libs?
[19:52] <asac> checking
[19:52] <asac> had to redownload ... no clue where i put it here ;)
[19:52] <asac> hmm
[19:52] <asac> chromium-browser
[19:52] <asac> /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser: error while loading shared libraries: libxcb-render-util.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[19:53] <asac> fta: ?
[19:53] <fta> lol, ok, i dropped it remember?
[19:54] <asac> yeah. but it seems to not work without
[19:54] <asac> firefox also fails to start now
[19:54] <asac> so maybe just update the really required packages (pulse etc) and leave the rest untouched ... just adding the i486 link
[19:55]  * asac has to run to get some food before store closes ... bbl
[20:11] <NCommander> Are we planning to move to thunderbird-3.0 for the karmic cycle?
[20:20] <asac> NCommander: 50/50
[20:20] <asac> no spec on this. no upstream commitment on release and so on
[20:24] <NCommander> asac, ok, I'm currently trying to run down why thunderbird 2.x series goes kaboom on ARM
[20:25] <NCommander> asac, I just broke in the armel retracer on it, but the thunderbird codebase is MASSIVE so I'm not sure where to begin on this
[20:25] <NCommander> Especially because I think we have a stack of patches on their stack which may (or may not) be related :-/
[20:26] <asac> NCommander: most likely they are unrelated.
[20:26] <asac> NCommander: does tbird 3 work well?
[20:26] <NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/385325
[20:26] <NCommander> I dunno, I can't find armel binaries which means to test would require a compile
[20:27] <asac> give it a try
[20:27] <NCommander> asac, is it int he archive?
[20:27] <NCommander> and if not, where can I find the deb, and the rdepends
[20:27] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa
[20:28] <asac> grab the latest daily and spin it on armel
[20:28] <asac> does the mobile team have a ppa with armel builders?
[20:28] <NCommander> asac, not one that would be acceptable for this, but my personal PPA is completely devirtualized
[20:28] <NCommander> (i.e., all architectures are built)
[20:28] <asac> so then you use that
[20:28] <NCommander> which packages do I want/
[20:28] <NCommander> all of them?
[20:29] <asac> just thunderbird-3.0
[20:29] <asac> the rest is in main archive
[20:29] <asac> well. the rest that is required for building/running tbird 3
[20:29] <NCommander> meh, there is a pretty good backlog on the armel builder, I'll build on my board
[20:29] <asac> NCommander: just copy sources using launchpad feature ;)
[20:30] <asac> whatever suites you well ;)
[20:30] <NCommander> asac, no, I need to wait for the armel builder to free up, that will take awhile
[20:30] <asac> NCommander: you can just copy it ... it will get build when a slot is avail ;)
[20:30] <NCommander> :-p
[20:32] <NCommander> asac, well, that was quick (https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/nageia)
[20:32] <NCommander> asac, BTW, I'll be seeing you at DebConf 9 it seems ;-)
[20:38] <asac> NCommander: heh. I will not go ;)
[20:39] <NCommander> asac, your not going?
[20:39] <asac> i think not.
[20:39] <NCommander> asac, oh :-/. I thought you were on the list
[20:39] <asac> i am i think. but i still think i am not going ;)
[20:40] <asac> have to confirm that though.
[20:40] <NCommander> asac, ah ;-). So if thunderbird 3.0 works, then what? (I'm not sure what upstreams plans with the 2.x series are, as this is my first major fray with mozilaa hacking)
[20:40] <asac> so not 100% sure;)
[20:40] <fta> asac, libxcb needs to buid-dep on xcb-proto (>= 1.5), then xcb-util needs a respin (probably a bump of libxcb too)
[20:44] <asac> fta: do we have all the required versions already?
[20:44] <asac> or is it because of outstanding merges?
[20:44] <asac> NCommander: not sure yet. first check if it works. then we can think what we can do
[20:45] <fta> i think so, the deps were not strict enough so pkgs have been built in the wrong order
[20:45] <asac> there is an outstanding merge for libxcb
[20:45] <asac> https://merges.ubuntu.com/libx/libxcb/REPORT
[20:46] <asac> seems someone wants to have it synched
[20:46] <NCommander> asac, if you sponsor the result, I'll handle it unless we want the diffs
[20:46]  * NCommander hasn't looked yet to see what we are carrying
[20:46] <asac> fta:  bug 383954
[20:47] <asac> NCommander: not sure what you mean exactly ;)
[20:47] <NCommander> asac, I said if a merge was necessary, I'd be glad to do it in return for your thunderbird assistance
[20:47] <asac> heh. no its fine
[20:47] <asac> thanks!
[20:48] <asac> i can assist you, but i cannot debug anything as i dont have a arm board
[20:48] <NCommander> asac, want a root shell?
[20:48] <asac> point is that tbird 2 is really in permafrost mode
[20:48] <NCommander> Yeah, that's the impression I got upstream :-/
[20:48] <asac> so we wont get any assitance from upstream. i expect there to be various issues on that branch, which all got fixed in 1.9 branch and later
[20:48] <NCommander> I'm not sure if this is broken as Debian as well
[20:49] <asac> NCommander: feel free to compare the patchsets
[20:49] <asac> maybe i dropped some arm patches compared to icedove
[20:49] <asac> but i don think i did that
[20:49] <asac> icedove-2.0.0.x$ ls debian/patches/*arm*
[20:49] <asac> debian/patches/18_arm_xpcom_unused_attribute.dpatch  debian/patches/38_arm_xpcom_optim.dpatch
[20:49] <asac> thunderbird.dev$ ls debian/patches/*arm*
[20:49] <asac> debian/patches/18_arm_xpcom_unused_attribute.dpatch  debian/patches/38_arm_xpcom_optim.dpatch
[20:50] <NCommander> There are enough differences between Debian armel and Ubuntu armel w.r.t. to glibc and toolchain that it could easily flush out a very subtle alignment bug
[20:51] <asac> could be. are modern armels (which we support) really that hard about alignments still?
[21:17] <NCommander> asac, yeah, but the kernel is supposed to trap it
[21:18] <NCommander> but even with the traps on, nothing (which isn't THAT suprising, I've seen the alignment catcher fail miserably before)
[21:25] <asac> NCommander: from what i see it crashes in *xc = 0 ... but according to backtrace xc = 0x310000 which is aligned to 4 bytes
[21:25] <asac> though that number looks suspicious in general
[21:25] <asac> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/js/src/jsdtoa.c#659
[21:28] <asac> hmm.
[21:28] <asac> does that for make sense at all?
[21:28] <asac> oh its incremented at the end so probably yes
[21:32] <NCommander> asac, WTF?!?!?!?
[21:32] <NCommander> asac, that code BURNS
[21:34] <NCommander> asac, I'm not even sure what its supposed to do
[21:36] <asac> ;)
[21:36] <asac> NCommander: it does bigint math ;)
[21:36] <asac> the variables could be more verbose i agree ;)
[21:36] <NCommander> oh god
[21:36] <asac> so the diff of that file from 1.8 branch (tbird 2) to trunk CVS (ffox 3) is http://paste.ubuntu.com/191900/
[21:36] <NCommander> Bigint is a struct
[21:36] <NCommander> >.<;
[21:37] <asac> of course it is
[21:37] <asac> its there to hold larger numbers than you can hold by normal types ;)
[21:37] <asac> NCommander: the diff doesnt look like it could fix this
[21:37] <NCommander> asac, I get it, but *twich* :-/
[21:38] <NCommander> asac, i think its more this is where its segfaulting, but thats because a bad pointer is going in I think
[21:38] <NCommander> I hate to ask this, but does thunderbird-3.0 make a -dbg package?
[21:38] <NCommander> (please say yes)
[21:38] <asac> NCommander: thats what i mean . the address looks suspicious even
[21:38] <asac> which would mean that Balloc fails
[21:38] <asac> NCommander: yes we have -dbg packages i think
[21:38] <asac> fta: ?
[21:39] <asac> too bad ... seems we didnt add them yet
[21:39] <asac> NCommander: so build locally with pkg-create-dbgsym installed
[21:40] <asac> sucks i know
[21:40] <asac> thought we added the -dbg packges everywhere again
[21:40] <asac> but most likely it doesnt crash with tbird 3.0 ;)
[21:40] <NCommander> well, if it works, then I don't care
[21:40] <NCommander> if it goes boom, then we got a problem :-/
[21:41] <asac> NCommander: dont you build locally?
[21:41] <fta> nope, no -dbg in tb3
[21:41] <asac> if so, just build with pkg-create-dbgsysm
[21:41] <asac> installed
[21:41] <asac> that will produce dbgsym things
[21:41] <NCommander> Looking at the stack trace, #5 in the backtrace caught my eye
[21:41] <NCommander> js_ReportUncaughtException
[21:45] <NCommander> asac, looking at Debian, icedove is not built on armel (just arm)
[21:46] <asac> sure. isnt the name armel an invention of ubuntu?
[21:46] <NCommander> Nope
[21:46] <NCommander> armel is New EABI ARM
[21:46] <NCommander> arm is Old EABI ARM
[21:46] <NCommander> (in Debian and ubuntu)
[21:46] <NCommander> asac, and actually, its FTBFS on armel,
[21:46] <asac> ubuntu didnt have old arm support, did we?
[21:47] <asac> tbird 3?
[21:47] <NCommander> nope
[21:47] <NCommander> I'm just looking at the icedove package in Debian
[21:47] <NCommander> which FTBFSed in the configure step, due to the Debian compiler not being happy
[21:48] <asac> dont bother with debian compiler i would think ;)
[21:48] <NCommander> I was just looking on why it didn't build on armel in Debian
[21:49] <asac> ok ... so config.guess/sub update most likely
[21:50] <asac> oh. really, i didnt know that we had armel in debian too now ;)
[21:50]  * asac feels out-of-date ;)
[21:50] <asac> https://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=icedove
[21:52] <asac> ok i think ill add -dbg packages to tbird 3.0 ... will be in daily tomorrow i guess
[22:00] <fta> asac, while you're at it, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27708075/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.thunderbird-3.0_3.0~b3~hg20090609r2812%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~jaunty_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:04] <asac> sure
[22:11] <asac> hmm. wonder if this will break it
[22:11] <fta> ?
[22:12] <asac> they dropped the install:: for defaults/prefs.js completely from that file
[22:13] <asac> maybe its the result of making it more "make install" friendly
[22:13] <asac> but most likely they only added libs:: again
[22:13] <asac> :(
[22:14] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/191934/
[22:15] <fta> hmm
[22:15] <asac> http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/log/d1a9b79cf5c2/mail/app/Makefile.in
[22:15] <asac> yeah so they removed the prefs.js deliberately
[22:15] <asac> ignorant
[22:16] <asac> -libs:: $(srcdir)/profile/prefs.js 60 -	$(INSTALL) $(IFLAGS1) $^ $(DIST)/bin/defaults/profile 61 - 62 -install:: $(srcdir)/profile/prefs.js 63 -	$(SYSINSTALL) $(IFLAGS1) $^  $(DESTDIR)$(mozappdir)/defaults/profile
[22:16] <asac> ouch
[22:16] <asac> well. they remove libs:: and install:: and only add libs:: again :(
[22:16] <asac> http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/22248bfae2b7
[22:16] <asac> *why are you guys so ignorant*
[22:17] <asac> the bug doesnt talk about install:: ;)
[22:17] <asac> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=496857
[22:17] <asac> so its an oversight droppage as it seems
[22:17] <asac> bugzilla: review+ ?
[22:18] <asac> ok mark banner ;)
[22:18] <asac> me lurks on #maildev
[22:19] <fta> :)
[22:20] <asac> lets see ... i complained to the reviewer
[22:26] <asac> they say they dropped it semi-intentionally
[22:26] <asac> because of https://bug496857.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=382095
[22:26] <asac> err
[22:26] <asac> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=394046#c23
[22:39] <dtchen> fta: yes, libpulsecore9 is now NBS, so it should be removed from karmic. it is superceded by libpulse0, which now contains libpulsecommon-0.9.15.so due to upstream restructuring of libs
[22:39] <fta> dtchen, good, dropped from ia32-libs too then
[23:01] <asac> fta: wanna kick off a tbird umd2 round?
[23:02] <fta> k
[23:02] <fta> done
[23:02] <asac> seems it still work
[23:02] <asac> great
[23:13] <asac> grr. apport retracers marks dupes just by top most function name now as it seems :(
[23:13] <fta> i wish my UNR bug was moving forward
[23:14] <fta> or just moving at all
[23:14] <asac> bug 258629
[23:15] <asac> this mass duping cant be good ;)


[00:44] <tsimonq2> mwhudson: I do get the idea :) thanks for the reminder, I sometimes wonder *why* this is the case! Of course, it made a difference back when Lubuntu shipped a seed with --no-install-recommends, but now, I'm not sure there's much of a point, if you ask me.
[00:44] <tsimonq2> (And I'd very much like to be proven wrong, heh.)(
[08:50] <juliank> mwhudson: tsimonq2: apt does not give you the same determinism that germinate and tasks give you, it will happily pick alternatives from universe if you don't feed it all packages in the task and it sees the dependencies in the wrong order
[09:50] <sudip> I have requested in #ubuntu-bugs yesterday but seems everyone is busy, so two requests here
[09:50] <sudip> can anyone please mark LP: #2056361 as affecting Jammy
[09:50] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2056361 in python-qrencode (Ubuntu) "python3-qrencode fails with SystemError about PY_SSIZE_T_CLEAN macro" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2056361
[09:51] <sudip> and also LP: #2018449 as affecting Noble, Mantic and Jammy please
[09:51] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2018449 in xmms2 (Ubuntu) "`xmms2 add --playlist ... ` causes a core dump" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2018449
[09:59] <ginggs> sudip: .
[10:00] <sudip> thanks ginggs
[11:14] <nibbon_> o/
[11:15] <nibbon_> does Ubuntu plan to ditch .deb for .snap sometime soon in the future?
[11:19] <adrien> in A.D. 2101
[11:28] <madjax> Hi, I'm new here and from Sweden. Anyone here testing a lot with the new installer for 24.04 desktop version? Would be nice to share some experiences.
[11:42] <madjax> just clearifying that with new installer, I mean autoinstall
[11:59] <zhsj> could someone sync golang-1.21 & golang-1.22 from debian? LP: #2056309 and LP: #2056310
[11:59] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2056309 in golang-1.21 (Ubuntu) "Sync golang-1.21 1.21.8-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2056309
[11:59] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2056310 in golang-1.22 (Ubuntu) "Sync golang-1.22 1.22.1-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2056310
[12:25] <ginggs> zhsj: looking...
[12:26] <ogra_> madjax, you might want to go to #ubuntu-next where the dev releases (and their bugs) are usually discussed
[12:28] <madjax> ogra_, ok thanks
[12:30] <ginggs> zhsj: .
[12:52] <zhsj> ginggs: thanks
[13:19] <nibbon_> adrien: :D
[13:20] <nibbon_> so, I assume .deb will still be part of Ubuntu along with .snap for a while
[13:29] <tsimonq2> nibbon_: A Very Long time, yes.
[13:29] <tsimonq2> As for how long exactly? Time will tell.
[13:30] <nibbon_> tsimonq2: ack, thanks
[13:30] <nibbon_> personally, I'm happy with .deb :)


[13:54] <Guest66> I would like to know more about apparmor. For example, when considering server hardening, should apparmor left alone (ie. at defaults) or should applications be actively managed , or should applications unknown to apparmor be actively managed by creating profiles for them? Is there a list of profiles contained in the apparmor-profiles package
[13:54] <Guest66> (which is not installed by default) somewhere?
[14:19] <rbasak> Guest66: https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/all/apparmor-profiles/filelist
[14:20] <rbasak> You might find the output of "sudo aa-status" helpful. Compare that with the services you run.
[14:22] <sdeziel> `ps fauxZ` is also handy to ID which profiles cover which processes
[14:22] <rbasak> Nice!
[14:42] <Guest66> thanks. I see that aa-status reports the currently loaded profiles which is handy. It doesn't tell me what's in that apparmor-profiles package though.
[14:44] <Guest66> ps fauxZ - not seem that one before. It shows a list of everything unconfined. Also useful. I guess between the two one can determine whether an app is managed by apparmor or not.
[14:47] <Guest66> I like that is also shows which user owns the running process. Thnx
[14:48] <Guest66> actually ps -ef does that as well...
[14:55] <Guest66> ios the an apparmor specific project, or irc channel?
[14:59] <JanC> Guest66: there is #apparmor on OFTC
[15:03] <Guest66> thanks
[15:06] <Guest66> I guess that's why I didn't find that channel on Libera :-)


[02:06] <rjian> elkbuntu: good morning..
[02:06] <rjian> elkbuntu: u there?
[02:07] <rjian> hmmm no ones here
[02:08] <somerville32> I'm here
[02:09] <somerville32> jenda: ping
[02:09] <rjian> somerville32: hello hehe can u point me to the logo guidelines?
[02:10] <somerville32> Try speaking with the Ubuntu art team
[02:11] <rjian> hehe ok thnx
[02:11] <Admiral_Chicago> rjian: google official ubuntu art
[02:11] <Admiral_Chicago> there should be a page on the team descrpition
[02:11] <somerville32> Admiral_Chicago, Hey
[02:11] <rjian> Admiral_Chicago: hello
[02:11] <Admiral_Chicago> hello
[02:12] <somerville32> What was with that really weird message on the ml?
[02:12] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm not on the mailing list, dunno
[02:12] <rjian> Admiral_Chicago: hehe finding guidelines for the logo because the loca Ubuntu-ph team logo is not qualified
[02:12] <rjian> a/loca/loCo
[02:32] <rjian> somerville32: u can check the propose logo to the trademark on the Ubuntu-ph team http://jucato.org/stuff/ubuntu-ph.png
[02:32] <somerville32> Cool :]
[02:32] <rjian> somerville32: but not qualified :(
[02:33] <rjian> somerville32: any suggestion u can make?
[02:34] <somerville32> I'm afraid I have nothing to do with artwork.
[02:34] <somerville32> But I'll ask my art buddy
[02:35] <somerville32> ...Who happens to be offline right now
[02:35] <somerville32> hehe
[02:35] <somerville32> You might e-mail the ubuntu-art team mailing list
[02:35] <somerville32> I'm sure they'll be happy to give you pointers
[02:42] <rjian> somerville32: hehehe ok.. :)
[04:53] <cellofellow> anybody interested in marketing Xubuntu, help out at http://cellofellow.homelinux.net/ubuntu/wiki
[05:06] <cellofellow> I saw somebody access it. What do you think?
[05:08] <somerville32> lol
[05:09] <cellofellow> somerville32: not you cody I know you've seen it. :)
[05:09] <somerville32> ;]
[12:29] <jenda> elkbuntu: you're on a mailing spree? :)
[12:29] <elkbuntu> jenda, yep
[12:29] <jenda> I think Dan will be able to make it to the meeting.
[12:29] <jenda> Which is good.
[12:29] <jenda> I invited matthewrevell, too, having stumbled upon him.
[12:30] <jenda> But he'll probably not make it.
[12:30] <elkbuntu> didnt expect he would
[12:46] <a7p> hi everyone, I just had a little chat @ubuntu-bugs ... and I'd like to suggest to introduce something like "A bug a week" ... one bug and it's symptoms get described and then it is shown how this particular bug was fixed ...
[12:47] <a7p> I don't know if it is a good idea to get more people into bugfixing and reporting ... but at least it's an idea.
[12:47] <elkbuntu> a7p, have you put this past sfllaw?
[12:48] <a7p> elkbuntu, no, I've talked to hobbsee and she pointed me here.
[12:49] <elkbuntu> a7p, ok. if you're unsure, talk to sfllaw, and see what he thinks the best way to go would be. if he thinks it's a good idea, and you are willing to maintain the section, then by all means, we can consider adding it :)
[12:50] <a7p> okay, I will talk to him ... (eventhough I think I am not able to maintain something that technically).
[12:50] <Admiral_Chicago> a7p: similar to debian package a week?
[12:51] <jenda> I could imagine that appearing in the UWN.
[12:51] <a7p> Admiral_Chicago, exactly only about bugs and how they got fixed.
[12:51] <Admiral_Chicago> i like the idea.
[12:51] <Admiral_Chicago> not sure about implementation, there are many ways to work it
[12:52] <elkbuntu> i do too. however, i believe simon should get a say on how he thinks it would be most beneficial/effective
[12:53] <Admiral_Chicago> yup, I don't think they would have a problem with it however
[12:53] <Admiral_Chicago> you might also want to put a little: how it was triaged etc
[12:53] <Admiral_Chicago> not sure
[12:53] <Admiral_Chicago> i have finals to study for
[12:53] <Admiral_Chicago> @now chicag
[12:54] <Admiral_Chicago> @now chicago
[12:54] <Admiral_Chicago> see?
[12:54] <Admiral_Chicago> oh it doesn't work bit it's 5.54 here.....
[12:54] <Admiral_Chicago> yea
[12:57] <elkbuntu> ubugtu does the time
[12:57] <a7p> elkbuntu, who do I best contact sfllaw? I just queried him - but no reaction (may be I should give him 5 or 6 hours).
[12:58] <elkbuntu> a7p, he's in canada and it's 4am there
[12:58] <elkbuntu> or so
[12:59] <a7p> what a weak excuse *g* ...
[12:59] <MenZa> Denn du bist was du isst! Es ist mein Teil!
[01:00] <a7p> I'll put my jabber id in the query so he can answer when he wants.
[01:00] <elkbuntu> https://launchpad.net/people/sfllaw
[01:01] <tonyyarusso> a7p: Indeed it is.
[01:02] <tonyyarusso> 7:00 AM for me in Canada, and haven't gone to bed yet
[01:02] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, he's probably over your side of the icecube anyway
[01:02] <tonyyarusso> Icecube?
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> It's 4 degrees, in the middle of December!
[01:03] <elkbuntu> i rest my case
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> We don't even have snow, in fact, it's supposed to rain today
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> Bloody weather
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> The snow should be up to my knees by now...
[01:03] <elkbuntu> well thats ok, we're in for a 40'C summer
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> ewwwwwww
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> possibly literally
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> Well, lesse ours was
[01:04] <elkbuntu> it was 35'C at 9:30pm the other day
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> Does ubotu do math?
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> 40 / 5 = 8, 8 * 9 = 72, 72 + 32 = 104
[01:04] <elkbuntu> no, google does though
[01:05] <tonyyarusso> Okay, yeah we go over that.
[01:05] <tonyyarusso> Last summer we hit 106
[01:05] <tonyyarusso> But I usually crawl up in a ball in the basement and cry when that happens.
[01:05] <elkbuntu> um.. who said 40 was the temp we 'hit'?
[01:05] <tonyyarusso> blargh
[01:05] <elkbuntu> i mean we're looking to have a summer of almost 40 average
[01:06] <tonyyarusso> I remember being stranded in South Dakota when it was 110
[01:06] <tonyyarusso> That was unpleasant
[01:06] <elkbuntu> i bet
[01:06] <tonyyarusso> My comfort range is -40 - +75 deg F
[01:07] <elkbuntu> heh, i prefer above freezing, but cold is better than hot
[01:07] <elkbuntu> in a few weeks, nekkid will be over dressed
[01:07] <MenZa> Depends on the situation.
[01:07] <tonyyarusso> You can always put more clothes on, but there's a limit to what you can take off
[01:07] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, precisely
[01:07] <MenZa> if you're lying in a tent with a tiny sleeping bag, I prefer hot.
[01:07] <MenZa> :d
[01:07] <tonyyarusso> MenZa: Ewww
[01:07] <elkbuntu> lol
[01:07] <tonyyarusso> I have stains on my ThermARest from sweat in SD that summer
[01:08] <elkbuntu> MenZa, i've been in that situation, on christmas eve, in an inch of rain
[01:08] <MenZa> ow
[01:08] <elkbuntu> well, the puddle was an inch deep anyhow
[01:08] <a7p> argg ... chrismas ...   Quinzees.
[01:11] <tonyyarusso> Sooooo warm
[01:11] <tonyyarusso> and cozy
[01:11] <elkbuntu> a what?
[01:12] <tonyyarusso> Snow hut.  You make a pile of snow, let is sit for a few hours to set, then hollow it out.
[01:13] <elkbuntu> you canadians are weird
[01:13] <tonyyarusso> Try it some time
[01:13] <tonyyarusso> And I'm only kinda Canadian
[01:19] <jenda> why that, tonyyarusso?
[01:19] <tonyyarusso> jenda: Why kinda Canadian?
[01:19] <jenda> yep
[01:20] <tonyyarusso> I'm born, raised, and issued a passport in the USA.  I'm going to school in Canada though (uni, 2nd year), and they actually _have_ an Ubuntu LoCo, so....
[01:21] <jenda> cool ;)
[01:21] <jenda> I did my 12th year of high school in Canada
[01:21] <jenda> en franais :)
[01:21] <tonyyarusso> Plus, Minnesota's a blue state, _and_ north of where I am in Ontario, so it's like honorary Canada
[01:21] <jenda> lol
[01:21] <jenda> blue = democrats, right?
[01:22] <tonyyarusso> Yeah
[01:22] <tonyyarusso> Just to confuse the world, since _everywhere_ _else_ blue is conservatives...
[01:22] <jenda> hehe
[01:22] <xipietotec> anyone here a FSF member?
[01:22] <jenda> including here.
[01:22] <MenZa> Thought about it, xipietotec
[01:23] <tonyyarusso> Oh, and in our case, it's not just democrats, it's "Democratic Farmer Labor party" - our own little version; has to do with unique state political history stuff
[01:24] <tonyyarusso> I should get some sleep
[01:24] <jenda> heh...
[01:24] <jenda> are you still up, or already up, tonyyarusso?
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> jenda: still
[01:25] <jenda> funky
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> yep
[01:25] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, the US has a LoCo, that's splintered 20 ways to stupidity
[01:25] <jenda> Dan buch is your timezone, and he got up about an hour ago :)
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> So, the sun will be up soon, therefore I'm going down
[01:25] <a7p> tonyyarusso, that's right - hide from it.
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: I'm not aware of any activity other than CO and NJ
[01:26] <jenda> tonyyarusso: there are quite a few.
[01:26] <jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList?highlight=%28CategoryLoCoTeams%29
[01:26] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsList
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> But do any of them DO anything?
[01:26] <jenda> AFAIK, Chicago is quite active.
[01:27] <tonyyarusso> Oh, and chicgo
[01:27] <elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, proliferate more splinters
[01:27] <elkbuntu> utah is a bit ok as well afaik
[01:27] <tonyyarusso> Mmmmmm, me and ubotu
[01:28] <elkbuntu> haha.. poke imbrandon to join his own damned loco then
[01:28] <xipietotec> see? No one lives in the midwest
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> I'll try during daylight hours sometime
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> Where's imbrandon from?
[01:28] <jenda> atoponce is the Utah guy...
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> Minnesota has a LP page, but no irc channel
[01:29] <xipietotec> huh....no one in #ubuntu-california either
[01:29] <jenda> careful about too many IRC channels, it can split the effort.
[01:30] <jenda> Dan Buch says 'lump, don't split' :)
[02:00] <atoponce> elkbuntu: yeah. we are very active, actually. meeting once a month, with ~15 members
[02:01] <atoponce> our mailing list and forums are low activity though
[02:01] <elkbuntu> atoponce, we = ?
[02:01] <atoponce> utah loco team
[02:01] <elkbuntu> aha, read up finally
[02:01] <atoponce> :)
[02:02] <elkbuntu> no prob.
[02:02] <atoponce> hey, i like your ubuntu counter. are you thinking of releasing the source to it?
[02:03] <elkbuntu> atoponce, when/if i ever clean it up
[02:03] <atoponce> :)
[02:03] <jenda> atoponce: I hope you don't want to decentralise it.
[02:03] <jenda> :)
[02:03] <atoponce> np. just curious.
[02:03] <jenda> elkbuntu: you should follow the launchpad model ;)
[02:03] <atoponce> jenda: i've been thinking of setting up a dvorak counter
[02:03] <jenda> woo :)
[02:04] <jenda> elkbuntu: please open up the source! :)
[02:04] <atoponce> :)
[02:04] <elkbuntu> jenda, atm, that's basically the reason. "it's not ready"
[02:04] <jenda> k
[02:05] <elkbuntu> atoponce, it's a surprisingly simple model. it stores users, then counts the users.
[02:06] <atoponce> elkbuntu: yeah. i was planning one out, and it didn't seem too bad, but then i thought, rather than reinvent the wheel, use another api, and improve it. :)
[02:06] <jenda> EEE
[02:07] <jenda> hmm
[02:07] <jenda> we might get a chance to appeal to the Culture ministry to use FLOSS
[02:08] <jenda> the CZLUG leader to the minister: "You probably aren't pleased with being the head of the best known organisation involved in software piracy in the country"
[02:08] <jenda> that's some cheek ;)
[02:08] <jenda> s/cheek/brazenness/
[02:09] <atoponce> nice
[02:12] <jenda> you there?
[02:12] <jenda> wow... after a bit of research:
[02:13] <jenda> more than two thirds of their computers run illegal soft :)
[02:13] <jenda> ROFL
[02:13] <jenda> Go government.
[02:13] <atoponce> why doesn't that surprise me? :)
[02:14] <jenda> 150-200 MS Win licences :)
[02:14] <jenda> mm
[02:15] <jenda> that's over a million CZK :)
[02:15] <jenda> rofl...
[02:16] <jenda> that's a chance for us.
[02:17] <jenda> meh...
[02:17] <jenda> not sure if we want them to use our wonderful OS
[02:18] <jenda> They were lent 25 PCs a few years ago by a company, and didn't return them when they were due... so the company billed for them, and they never paid.
[02:21] <atoponce> nice
[02:22] <atoponce> there are a couple employees at my work who have pirated software on their machines.
[02:23] <atoponce> and ith it manager knows about it, but prefers to "forget" it
[02:23] <atoponce> drives me nuts
[02:23] <atoponce> s/ith/the/
[02:35] <jenda> hehe
[03:11] <nixternal> i don't get the statement "the US has a LoCo, that's splintered 20 ways to stupidity"
[03:12] <elkbuntu> nixternal, your one country, has quite literally 10x the number of locos *ANY* other country does
[03:13] <nixternal> and we have 10x the population as well
[03:14] <nixternal> Ubuntu Chicago has a market of 9 million plus to reach alone
[03:14] <elkbuntu> you have more population than china or india?
[03:14] <nixternal> umm no
[03:14] <elkbuntu> china has the whole of 2 locos, not 20
[03:14] <elkbuntu> india i believe has 1
[03:15] <elkbuntu> they cope fine
[03:15] <elkbuntu> *that* was my point
[03:15] <nixternal> ya, but i am willing to bet there are areas that aren't being targeted
[03:15] <nixternal> screw it, i guarantee it
[03:15] <jenda> elkbuntu: india has more.
[03:15] <nixternal> coping is one thing, effectively reaching the entire market is another
[03:15] <elkbuntu> there's still areas that arent being targeted in the US, because there's people starting 1 person locos
[03:15] <jenda> and the loco teams are meant to be able to target their area.
[03:16] <jenda> I can't imagine a team properly managing the entire states.
[03:16] <nixternal> well 1 person loco's is ignorant
[03:16] <elkbuntu> jenda, no, but one team managing the chapters would be great
[03:16] <jenda> meh
[03:16] <jenda> ok
[03:16] <jenda> ;)
[03:16] <nixternal> the only reason i started chicago is because we instantly had 40+ interested from the forums alone
[03:17] <elkbuntu> why not illinois as a whole?
[03:17] <nixternal> plus now I am the president of the LoCo, so now we have just kind of grew into one huge "Ubuntu Marketing" family in the Chicago land area
[03:17] <nixternal> we are looking at becoming Ubuntu Illinois actually
[03:17] <elkbuntu> cool, good
[03:17] <nixternal> we have people in the center of the state now and the southern portion of the state
[03:17] <elkbuntu> :)
[03:18] <nixternal> so it only makes sense for us to become Illinois eventually
[03:18] <juliux> hi all
[03:19] <jenda> yo, jules.
[03:19] <jenda> :)
[03:19] <jenda> juliux: what's your email again? I had someone email @ubuntu.com, and it came back undelivered.
[03:20] <juliux> jenda<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>are working but my main one is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:20] <jenda> long live spam ;)
[03:20] <juliux> i have a greate spamfilter;)
[03:20] <jenda> k, will rememba for next time.
[03:20] <jenda> hehe
[03:23] <juliux> elkbuntu, in which channel is the marketing meeting?
[03:24] <elkbuntu> juliux, um... i really dont know
[03:24] <juliux> elkbuntu, good answer;)
[03:24] <elkbuntu> juliux, well... for as long as i've been with the team, there's not been a meeting
[03:24] <nixternal> heh, we used to have a lot of "good" meetings
[03:24] <elkbuntu> nixternal, people obtained lives
[03:25] <nixternal> must be ;p
[03:25] <nixternal> hey
[03:25] <nixternal> what are you saying? i don't have a life now? ;p
[03:25] <elkbuntu> you're one of the ones that does
[03:25] <nixternal> well, i guess....tell me something i didn't know already
[03:25] <nixternal> if i can't purchase it on amazon, then i don't need it ;)
[03:25] <elkbuntu> you're part of the problem, man
[03:26] <nixternal> always am, if you have an issue, please file a bug against it in malone
[03:26] <nixternal> heh, now that would be one hell of a triagers nightmare...fixing "nixternal" bugs
[03:27] <elkbuntu> but seriously, ompaul got a life and gnewsense, matthewrevell got a life and a canonical job, mdke... i dont know if he's on much anymore, but he got a life and a job
[03:27] <nixternal> bah, i don't need all that...i got a life with school & ubuntu..that's enough for me
[03:27] <nixternal> anymore and my head would explode
[03:27] <juliux> school lol ;)
[03:28] <nixternal> ya, but i am double majoring now to finish my masters and another comp sci degree, and then possibly (haven't made up my mind yet) a phd in probably electrical engineering or comp sci
[03:29] <juliux> phd ?
[03:29] <nixternal> at 32, i decided to finish everything, since the military is paying for everything...can't loose that opportunity
[03:29] <nixternal> dr. or philosophy
[03:30] <nixternal> which is scary to think about
[03:41] <nixternal> thank god for musicbrainz
[03:42] <nixternal> i converted all of my music to ogg last night (finally), and a lot of the tags were removed
[03:53] <atoponce> musicbrainz rocks! i don't know what i'd do without it. i certainly wouldn't tag the files myself! ;)
[04:04] <nixternal> ya, i just noticed the button for it in amarok and totally forgot i set that up many months back
[04:11] <atoponce> so, am i to understand that the marketing meeting is in 10 hours and 49 minutes?
[04:12] <elkbuntu> atoponce, i believe 30 hours. confirm with Burgwork if he ever regains consciousness
[04:13] <atoponce> hmm. ok. trying to decipher if it's 12:01am is sat or sun
[04:19] <MitchM> jenda -- good sir?
[04:20] <jenda> MitchM: I was about to warn you about an email coming - it's already there, though.
[04:20] <MitchM> lol k
[04:21] <MitchM> jenda: Bah! More users.
[04:30] <MitchM> well jenda -- It will be hard to get everyone to be able to read/write securely.
[04:30] <jenda> hmm
[04:30] <jenda> how dat?
[04:30] <MitchM> Since apache needs to be a member of the group to read the web files. That means if I add "other" people to the group -- and allow them "Write" privs.
[04:31] <MitchM> Then apache has write privs to the directory also.
[04:31] <MitchM> which is (in my experience) never a good idea.
[04:31] <MitchM> If you would like me to create a seperate "diy" account for general use.
[04:31] <MitchM> I can do that
[04:31] <MitchM> or I can proceed on with adding everyone to the group
[04:32] <MitchM> and giving apache write access to the files
[04:32] <jenda> ok, then, just leave it as it is :)
[04:32] <MitchM> k :)
[04:32] <MitchM> and what abou the newuser "bueno"
[04:32] <MitchM> ignore?
[04:32] <MitchM> about*
[04:38] <jenda> MitchM: we'll just let him use the account there is now, if necessary.
[04:38] <MitchM> Good.
[04:38] <MitchM> Thats what i like to hear =)
[04:38] <MitchM> lol
[04:40] <jenda>


[17:51] <Laney> hi dudes, just sent the ML an announce about the packging guide if someone could moderate it


[02:47] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:31] <marcoagpinto> Morning!
[11:17] <oerheks> grinn.. i did not notice f̶r̶e̶e̶n̶o̶d̶e̶ ̶a̶d̶m̶i̶n̶
[11:20] <oerheks> I do not really want to be an op, tomreyn .. i still try to reason
[11:22] <tomreyn> oerheks: thanks for trying to reason. it did not seem to entirely work out here.
[11:23] <oerheks> i wonder if #ubuntu on freenode is still active..
[11:23] <daftykins> lol reasoning on IRC? are you mad?
[11:25] <oerheks> my best kick out is; <oerheks> Pokos22, if other channels give a solution, let me know
[11:25] <oerheks> :-D