[01:24] <cpatrick08> I am building mir on trusty and I am on the Building Mesa Step, and get following error message configure: error: DRI driver directory 'mir' does not exist


[00:24] <gijeo3k> Are we allowed to post links to bug reports here?
[00:28] <brainwash> gijeo3k: why shouldn't you be allowed to?
[00:29] <gijeo3k> oh I don't know, some channels are weird that way and I am kind of a newb
[00:30] <brainwash> however, I'm not sure if we are able to help you with resolving your issue. usually you should keep the discussion in the bug report
[00:30] <brainwash> and add a comment to it
[00:31] <brainwash> but feel free to ask
[00:37] <anti-unix> hi
[01:18] <chrispage1980> Hi, I have a question.. Well actually I have two now.. Firstly, Can someone tell me if Xubuntu ( 14.04.01 ) is opening port 7117 by way upnp and for what purpose or it is something else I've installed myself and secondly why the support channel is blocking PrivateInternetAccess VPN IP now?
[01:19] <pleia2> chrispage1980: I don't have 7117 open on any of my systems, so it must be something you've installed
[01:19] <chrispage1980> ty
[01:19] <pleia2> I don't know what "PrivateInternetAccess VPN IP" is
[01:19] <chrispage1980> I wasn't able to log onto the support channel without disconnecting my VPN connection.
[01:20] <pleia2> that's a bit vague :) VPNs can be configured in hundreds of ways so there is no way for us to tell without knowing how yours is configured why it's being blocked
[01:22] <pleia2> could be that your VPN doesn't allow connection to the IRC port, or the internet connection it's coming from is blocked from Freenode, or dozens of other things
[01:23] <chrispage1980> I'm using OPENVPN inside dd-wrt, it's no biggie, I just found it strange. I know the IP I would show is used by many connections so I'm assuming the server IP I'm currently connected to is being blocked.
[01:24] <chrispage1980> thanks for help I will go find what is opening the ports.
[01:25] <Unit193> sudo netstat -lnp | greo 7117
[01:25] <Unit193> chrispage1980: Which support channel?  This one?
[01:25] <chrispage1980> Yes this one.
[01:31] <chrispage1980> Found it, nothing scary :) It was Skype.
[01:35] <daychilde> Okay, I'm kinda of a Linux newbie, so I don't even know the right terms to search for… I'm running a single monitor under xubuntu, and I'd like to separate it into two different workspaces at the same time, i.e. specify a portion for workspace #1 and a portion for workspace #2. At least, I think that's what I want to do. It would give me some advantages
[01:35] <daychilde> like being able to maximize an application in one workspace while always being able to see the contents of the second workspace (like an IM/chat app in a tall/narrow workspace) - and send apps back and forth and such. Is such a thing possible? What terms am I looking to google for on how to do it?
[01:37] <bazhang> what do you mean by "send apps back and forth"
[01:38] <daychilde> Like how you can send an application to a specific workspace
[01:38] <bazhang> thats the send part, what about back and forth
[01:39] <daychilde> Sorry, bad phrasing on my part. I just mean that you can specify in which workspace an application appears. Later, if you change that, you'd be moving it "back and forth" between workspaces. Again, bad phrasing on my part, sorry.
[01:41] <bazhang> http://askubuntu.com/questions/150066/split-monitor-in-two
[01:41] <bazhang> perhaps that might help with the split screen part
[01:42] <daychilde> definitely give it a look, thanks :)
[01:42] <bazhang> I dont really see the sense or reason to send apps back and forth, though
[01:43] <bazhang> !info xmonad
[01:43] <daychilde> Well, my intended use scenario would be to define a tall/narrow space to run IM, as I said; which would always be visible and accessible, while I maximize other apps on the other workspace...
[01:44] <daychilde> You're really focusing on the "back and forth" which as I said was not well-phrased on my part. Once I sent the IM app to its place, there would be any back and forth in the sense you're misreading my meaning.........
[01:44] <bazhang> IM as in yahoo chat type IM, or IRC
[01:45] <daychilde> Sure, basically. Doesn't matter, because I have several scenarios in mind, but this seemed the easiest to explain.
[01:45] <daychilde> It doesn't matter what apps run in the two spaces, the simple capability of having the two spaces means I can play with them and do what makes sense to me.
[01:46] <bazhang> well the IRC one might be potentially doable
[01:46] <daychilde> In fact, for example, depending on if it's easy to change or not, I might divide the monitor into three spaces and have a small terminal, an area for IM, and then the "main" area for my browser/email (to switch back and forth)....
[01:46] <bazhang> if you want it all GUI-y it would be harder, but the link above might help with that
[01:47] <bazhang> if it's command line, then either screen and irssi
[01:48] <daychilde> I've used screen/irssi both, adn they don't do anything like what I'm thinking of, although they are both awesome :) As you said, they're CLI, and what I'm thinking of will be dividing up graphical space. lol. Like people seeking to make multiple monitors each into their own workspace, only I'm looking to divide a single monitor into multiple workspaces --
[01:48] <daychilde> but you've giving me a couple of things to look at and I haven't looked at them fully yet :)
[01:49] <bazhang> although if you were on gnome-shell, you could alt-tab between running apps in a coverflow type situation
[01:50] <bazhang> thats a very nifty experience if you've never tried it
[01:50] <daychilde> A quick google seems to indicate that's a method for switching between apps.... I have alt-tab right now.... I'm not talking about switching between apps like that at all.
[01:51] <bazhang> yes, but the way it's done is a kind of 3D rotating method, otherwise what you probably want is a tiling WM
[01:52] <bazhang> covered in the askubuntu link above
[01:53] <bazhang> lots of choices, may not be exactly what you are looking for, but hope that helps a bit
[01:54] <daychilde> Def gives me places to go, thanks :)
[01:55] <bazhang> funnily enough, one of the choices is 'awesome' <--- exactly that name
[01:55] <bazhang> np
[01:57] <Unit193> !info awesomewm
[01:57] <Unit193> Meh.
[01:58] <bazhang> !find awesome
[02:14] <squeegily_> Is Xubuntu 12.04.5 stable?
[02:14] <squeegily_> Or should I opt for 12.04.4?
[02:14] <pleia2> Xubuntu 12.04 is only supported for another 4 months or so, I'd recommend 14.04
[02:15] <pleia2> but 12.04.5 is good, and has important security updates that .4 does not have
[02:16] <Unit193> If you run updates in .4, you'll be at the same level as if you'd just installed .5.  But yes, I'd recommend 14.04 over that, moreso if you have newer hardware.
[02:18] <squeegily_> I have an Acer Aspire One 751h
[02:18] <squeegily_> The newer kernel has some issues
[02:18] <squeegily_> I can't even play an MP3 on a VT with mplayer
[02:19] <squeegily_> pleia2: So you say 12.04.5 has some security updates?
[02:19] <pleia2> squeegily_: yes, that's what makes it .5
[02:19] <pleia2> with a few execeptions, changes in released versions are only major bug and security fixes
[02:19] <squeegily_> I heard that there's some sort of operation to backport LTS kernels to older versions of Ubuntu. How can I make sure I do *not* get the newer kernel versions?
[02:20] <pleia2> you don't do the operation to enable them
[02:20] <pleia2> it's not automatic
[02:20] <squeegily_> "In an effort to support a wider variety of hardware on an existing LTS release, the 12.04.2 and newer point releases will ship with an updated kernel and X stack by default." https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[02:20] <squeegily_> It seems automatic enough
[02:21] <squeegily_> How can I make sure I keep the outdated kernel?
[02:21] <pleia2> ah
[02:21] <pleia2> the first three bullet-points of the link you just shared give some suggestions
[02:23] <squeegily_> Oh no it looks like I should have downloaded the older installation media
[02:23] <squeegily_> "anyone installing and wishing to remain on the original 12.04 stack to please install from the 12.04.0 or 12.04.1 media"
[02:23] <squeegily_> perfect
[02:25] <Unit193> .4 ships with 3.2.0-58.88
[02:26] <squeegily_> Ugh I can't find xubuntu-12.04.1-desktop-i386.iso or xubuntu-12.04.1-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
[02:26] <bazhang> !torrents
[02:27] <squeegily_> bazhang: I am looking specifically for Xubuntu 12.04.1. 14.04 or 12.04.2+ are unacceptable
[02:28] <squeegily_> Which is why I asked specifically for 12.04.1
[02:28] <squeegily_> But I did find a mirror
[02:31] <bazhang> ok
[03:07] <daychilde> Halp. :( I installed xmonad, decided it wasn't for me, unisntalled, and now I have... no window manager? My xfce panel remains, but all new windows open at top left and I can't resize or move them...
[03:08] <daychilde> Also, in Settings, clicking Window Manager is just waiting, nothing happens. Also also, I'd backed up ~/.config and restored it after uninstalling xmonad
[03:17] <xubuntu51w> Hello
[03:54] <daychilde> So I'm to the point of figuring out that my user isn't starting xfwm4 at launch. Should I just add that to startup, or is there a place in a config to set it?
[04:31] <Zerena> <-- Looking for linux skills.. Ovh server admin. Co-Partner.
[04:37] <Executioner> I'm getting a hang when using the alternative installer of 12.04, are there any logs to check or something I can go around and look at what causes that?
[04:38] <xubuntu56w> In the task manager. what is diferent between terminate stop and kill ? can this commands mess up the system ? if i stop a process or a program will the system works normal after a restart ?
[04:40] <Executioner> killing is force-stopping the program without it even knowing it
[04:40] <Executioner> regular stop means sending a signal to quit
[04:44] <xubuntu56w> firefox was hanging and i cud hardly stop it with these commands. it needed some time.
[04:45] <Executioner> well, sigkill is pretty much instant, depends on the load of your system
[04:47] <Executioner> if you're willing the use the terminal, you could install htop, and using Ctrl+Alt+F1 (or any number up to 6) to switch to it. You can return to your GUI with Ctrl+Alt+F7.
[04:47] <Executioner> (htop is like a task manager, but described as an interactive process viewer)
[09:13] <xubuntu18w> hi
[09:13] <xubuntu18w> is there anybody
[09:13] <xubuntu18w> hi h i
[13:59] <Yonex> hello guys :)
[14:54] <mucus> howdy!  how do i terminate and restart thunar?
[14:55] <ochosi> mucus: Thunar -q
[14:55] <ochosi> or if that doesn't work you can always "killall Thunar"
[14:56] <mucus> should term give me some info about that, or is it rather silent?
[14:56] <ochosi> silent
[15:00] <mucus> thank you ochosi
[15:02] <ochosi> np mucus
[15:12] <mucus> alrighty, so i have a bunch of space free at /dev/sda3  but no space at /dev/root how can i create a link so /root will use space on /sda3 ?
[15:12] <mucus> i thought i could do ln -s /dev/root /dev/sda3
[15:12] <mucus> but i don't think that did it
[15:14] <ochosi> you have to resize the partition
[15:14] <ochosi> try e.g. gparted
[15:14] <ochosi> mucus: ^
[15:28] <mucus> >_>
[15:28] <mucus> can't install gparted because the partition is full
[15:29] <mucus> i guess i can grab a package and install it at /dev/sda3 right?
[15:33] <holstein> mucus: i would use a live environment
[15:33] <holstein> i dont resize even unused partitions on the same drive i am on.. i backup *everything* before resizing, and use a live environment
[15:37] <mucus> arhf uhg
[15:38] <mucus> i wish i was better at all of this stuff
[15:39] <holstein> mucus: its not trivial, necessarily, to be resizing partitions.. i say, plan for total failure, and allow yourself the opportunity to make mistakes.. *all* drives will fail, so plan for that happening,and you will have all your data safely backed up properly
[15:39] <holstein> mucus: what is the goal?
[15:40] <mucus> the partition /dev/root is saying it's full.  the partition /dev/sda3 (or /dev/var) has 1.7 tera
[15:40] <mucus> i want root to have access to that space
[15:42] <mucus> i was thinking i could simply symlink root to /sda3
[15:43] <holstein> !sudo
[15:44] <holstein> mucus: mbut, you *dont* need to give root access to that space. you can use a live environment to resize.. or, do more research
[15:44] <holstein> mucus: you could have failing hardware that is reporting an issue like that
[15:45] <mucus> reporting an issue like what?
[15:45] <mucus> oh, out of space?
[15:45] <mucus> i believe it's out of space it had next to nothing
[15:47] <holstein> mucus: sure.. im suggesting the "out of space" message can be actually not about the space at all, but failing hardware
[15:47] <holstein> at least, that is something i would want to rule out..
[15:48] <mucus> this is a dedi i'm leasing, i suppose hardware /could/ be an issue. . .
[15:50] <holstein> mucus: you mean, a dedicated host? at a hosting company? if so, its likely a customized version of ubuntu, and not ubuntu at all.. you will likely need to ask them for support
[15:50] <mucus> yes, but i've installed ubu myself and then xfce because that's best
[16:00] <xubuntu81w> I am following a walk through to install a program but have an error of  " autoreconfig,  command not found " as a total newbie help would be appreciated. have tried install autoconfig and says
[16:00] <holstein> mucus: you should have access to do normal diagnostics.. test with some live iso, and poke around on the actual hardware, or virtual hardware..
[16:01] <xubuntu81w> is the latest version
[16:01] <holstein> xubuntu81w: if you are a "total newbie", i say, dont build your own software. use what is in the repos, or add a ppa..
[16:01] <mucus> actual hardware, thankfully
[16:04] <koegs> xubuntu81w: which software? what walkthrough?
[16:06] <xubuntu81w> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
[16:07] <xubuntu81w> koegs  installing on 14.04
[16:07] <holstein> xubuntu81w: just use this ppa https://launchpad.net/~kamalmostafa/+archive/ubuntu/fldigi
[16:08] <xangua> !info fldigi
[16:08] <holstein> HA!.. even easier..
[16:08] <holstein> xubuntu81w: just open the package manager of your choice, and install it from the default repos
[16:11] <xubuntu81w> I am actually trying DL-FLDIGI, which is a variant used to track High Altitude Ballons and send the data straight to the the onlinr tracking page
[16:19] <holstein> xubuntu81w: cool!.. just ask the creators for support on installing the software they create
[16:26] <xubuntu81w> holstein  it was a toss up which came first , but having looked on the web was inclined that it might be something I was missing
[16:27] <holstein> xubuntu81w: i actually have been using ubuntu for a long time. i personally rarely build from source like that.. and when i do, i encounter a list of things i need to do to make the package work..
[16:41] <xubuntu81w> holstein ok so if you enter the instruction as it is written it works, ( I now have a sore forehead from banging it on the desk) thanks for your help
[16:53] <holstein> xubuntu81w: cool.. glad you got it sorted
[17:07] <squeegily_> I want to completely purge PulseAudio from my system. What will this break and how should I fix it?
[17:08] <mucus> squeegily_: why are you purging pulseaudio?
[17:08] <squeegily_> mucus: Because it doesn't work on my machine. Any audo that gets sent through it turns nearly to static
[17:08] <mucus> oh, well... that sounds awful
[17:09] <squeegily_> Yeah.. fortunately ALSA works
[17:09] <squeegily_> But I realized that since PulseAudio is literally nonfunctional, I might as well remove it to save space, boot time, etc
[17:09] <mucus> my usual feeling though is "computers have sound?"
[17:10] <squeegily_> And to eliminate the possibility of it being used as the default audio device (especially for applications that can't manually configure their audio output)
[17:10] <mucus> and don't audio dealies tie into the kernel?  so it would be impossible to totally remove it?
[17:10] <mucus> unless yo compile a new kernel. . . .
[17:11] <squeegily_> mucus: Well, I want to remove all the components of PA that I can
[17:11] <squeegily_> Since nothing that was going to use it would work anyway
[17:12] <holstein> squeegily_: just remove it, you can easily put it back, if needed
[17:12] <mucus> can't you go to the software center and click the handy remove button?
[17:13] <squeegily_> I'm wondering what things to look out for.. like if it's not going to boot due to a service dependency or something ridiculous
[17:13] <squeegily_> I just want to know if there are any known "gotchas" when removing this from Xubuntu
[17:14] <holstein> squeegily_: why? if you want to remove it, go for it.. removing is, generally *is* in its self what to "watch out for"
[17:14] <holstein> squeegily_: the gotchas will be obvious as you go through,a nd you can put it back, easily
[17:15] <holstein> squeegily_: i mean, no one will say "just rip pulse out, no worries".. but, if you want to remove it, go for it
[17:15] <squeegily_> Okay
[17:15] <squeegily_> I'll report back if it works :)
[17:15] <drc> squeegily_: A quick google search show lots of folks saying it <will> cause problems, but no one says exactly how.  I've personally done it and saw no adverse effects.  That said I'd just DISABLE it to see what happens on your machine.
[17:15] <holstein> squeegily_: no need..
[17:16] <holstein> squeegily_: this is "at your own risk".. if you want to, go for it..
[17:18] <drc> oh...but then there is this http://askubuntu.com/questions/489609/how-can-i-cleanly-remove-pulseaudio-in-ubuntu-14-04 saying by disabling it will be respawned by the init system.
[17:20] <drc> It then goes on to tell you how to kill it and tell it not to respawn.
[17:20] <drc> So...Have fun :)
[18:02] <mucus> alrighty i want to swap to nuatilus fm from thunar
[18:02] <mucus> i've gone ahead and grabbed the nautilus package
[18:02] <mucus> what esle do i need to do?
[18:02] <holstein> mucus: i would just search soemthing like "running nautilus with xubuntu" or "running nautilus with xfce".. otherwise, it is suggested you use thunar
[18:03] <holstein> should still be similar to http://askubuntu.com/questions/403892/how-can-i-start-nautilus-on-xubuntu-xfce-via-the-shortcuts-in-the-xfce-panels
[18:04] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/169036/use-nautilus-with-xfce-as-default-file-manager for example
[18:05] <holstein> when i have used it in the past, i just use nautilus by using the "no desktop" option.. and actually just leave thunar in place..
[18:05] <holstein> depends on the need/goal, i suppose
[18:07] <mucus> hm.
[18:07] <mucus> naut is really ugly
[18:07] <mucus> and my goal is to be able to right click on dropbox files and get a public link
[18:09] <holstein> mucus: i do that in the web portal
[18:09] <holstein> anyways.. http://www.webupd8.org/2012/08/how-to-install-dropbox-in-xubuntu-and.html
[18:09] <mucus> yeah you can do that
[18:09] <mucus> i have db installed already
[18:09] <holstein> ^ that is how to use dropbox and thunar, which i have also done
[18:09] <mucus> but i like in windows how i can right click files
[18:09] <mucus> and get links
[18:10] <holstein> mucus: sure, and nothing about xubuntu/thunar is preventing dropbox from providing that for you
[18:10] <mucus> i see that now!
[18:10] <holstein> mucus: try the tool that is suggested in the link
[18:10] <mucus> thanks!
[18:11] <holstein> mucus: if it doesnt work, consider a compromise,a nd let dropbox know you would like a tool for the operating system/file manager you are using
[18:11] <holstein> i personally bothered setting it up once, and now, i just go directly to the web portal.. but, i personally try and not install dropbox anymore, since i dont need it installed to use it
[18:17] <mucus> how do i install something from term?
[18:18] <holstein> !details | mucus
[18:18] <holstein> like, *exactly* what you are trying to install, and why
[18:18] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware
[18:18] <mucus> the dropbox thunar extension
[18:18] <mucus> but it freezes the software center
[18:18] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware#Via_a_Text_Based_Methods specifically
[18:19] <holstein> that .deb may not work.. its not "supported". but, i would just try it with http://askubuntu.com/questions/40779/how-do-i-install-a-deb-file-via-the-command-line
[18:27] <mucus> holstein: thanks, i got it running now!
[18:28] <mucus> wanna try to peg another issue with me?  my top panel obscures part of the icons on my desktop, and it covers the top part of windows as well.  how do i fix this sizing issue?
[18:28] <holstein> mucus: many ways
[18:28] <holstein> mucus: you can share a screenshot to better describe your issue for a volunteer
[18:38] <mucus> holstein:  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9530983/Screenshot%20-%20050115%20-%2013%3A33%3A27.png  and https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9530983/Screenshot%20-%20050115%20-%2013%3A34%3A05.png
[18:41] <holstein> mucus: i find that, after logging out and back in, my icons are where i expect them to be, after having messed with my panels
[18:41] <holstein> mucus: i say, try that.. if its not "as expected", you can go from there.. with many ideas, fixes, and work arounds
[23:19] <xubuntu18w> Hi, I have quick question :)  What format is best of external HDD (160GB)? I need use it on linux and Windows. Do you have some tips?
[23:20] <drc> xubuntu18w: All my external/USB hdd's that even might be dual OS usable are formated NTSF.
[23:23] <drc> And the only reason NTSF over FAT32 is because FAT32 doesn't plays well with using/backing up symlinks (which I tend to use frequently)
[23:24] <xubuntu18w> drc> Thx! But I read NTSF work slow under Linux. But I dont have idea, is it actual.
[23:26] <drc> No idea, but my external hdd's are not the "primary use" hdds...they hold audio/video files that usually only get "played" not "played with".
[23:26] <bazhang> ntfs support has been very good for a very long time
[23:27] <bazhang> unless you meant nfs
[23:27] <drc> or Backup Media, which really doesn't get used a lot (unless I do something stupid.
[23:27] <bazhang> ie, as a shared storage area
[23:28] <bazhang> fat is ok, but the file size limitation in the age of bluray etc is an issue
[23:28] <bazhang> 4.3gb iirc
[23:29] <xubuntu18w> Thx, you help me very well!  I need it for music video and some backup.  I go to NTFS.
[23:29] <bazhang> np
[23:29] <bazhang> :)
[23:30] <xubuntu18w> Have a nice day!
[23:30] <bazhang> same to you!
[23:33]  * drc forgot about the file size limitations.
[23:40] <zakmc> Hi, after installing xubuntu 14.10 (32bit), I get really bad wlan performance. From around 20 mbit/s before the reinstall down to ~1 mbit/s or less.
[23:43] <zakmc> Kernel 3.16.0-28-generic using the rt2x00 driver. Also, dmesg is flooded by flush queue warnings
[23:43] <zakmc> is there a way to force the use of the rt61pci driver?
[23:45] <bazhang> blacklist the one, modprobe the other


[00:00] <mwhudson> what: http://paste.ubuntu.com/701996/
[00:02] <mwhudson> haha uh, why have i had an ec2 t1.micro running since march?
[00:02] <StevenK> Haha
[00:02] <StevenK> Aren't they effectively free now?
[00:10] <mwhudson> only for new signups i think?
[00:11] <mwhudson> anyway it hasn't been costing me very much or i'd have noticed within a month i guess :-)
[00:37] <mwhudson> sigh, 4 attempts to get ec2 test running :/
[00:37] <mwhudson> (merge failure, odd ssh failure, local net glitch)
[01:50] <StevenK_> wgrant: Didn't we remove polls?
[01:51] <wgrant> StevenK_: Yes, but they were revived.
[01:51] <lifeless> we tried
[01:51] <wgrant> Because Ubuntu use them.
[01:51] <StevenK_> Really? They haven't been used for the last few elections
[01:51] <nigelb> Morning
[01:51] <nigelb> wgrant: Ubuntu uses them for what?
[01:51] <lifeless> StevenK_: ubuntu womens
[01:52] <lifeless> IIRC
[01:52] <nigelb> Most elections are condorcet
[01:52] <nigelb> Ubuntu Women also used that, not LP polls
[01:58] <StevenK> So perhaps we should ask Ubuntu again?
[01:58]  * StevenK
[01:58] <StevenK> Sigh
[01:58]  * StevenK searches for a single word that means 'person or team'
[01:59] <wgrant> person
[01:59] <wgrant> Or Person.
[01:59] <mwhudson> so, feature flags
[01:59] <StevenK> wgrant: IE, I want a class name for the refactored code.
[02:01] <mwhudson> err hm
[02:01] <mwhudson> why does LaunchpadTestRequest set .features to NullFeatureController?
[02:04] <mwhudson> i guess LaunchpadTestRequest is used in some tests that don't have a db connection, perhaps
[02:08] <lifeless> StevenK: Atom
[02:14] <wgrant> lifeless: Any idea what's going on with the lazr.restful OOPS fix?
[02:18] <lifeless> ECONTEXT
[02:20] <wgrant> lifeless: The one you mailed IIRC benji about a week or so ago.
[02:20] <wgrant> The __traceback___ one.
[02:20] <lifeless> I thought he fixed it already
[02:20] <lifeless> he acked it and made a branch immediately
[02:21] <wgrant> Yeah.
[02:21] <wgrant> But it apparently never landed.
[02:21]  * wgrant hunts.
[02:23] <wgrant> https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/bug-854695/+merge/76285
[03:50] <stub> wallyworld_: I don't think you want the trigger to initialize transitively_private in the BEFORE trigger, as it will be overwritten in the AFTER trigger anyway. Just 'ALTER TABLE Branch ALTER COLUMN transitively_private SET DEFAULT TRUE;' should be fine?
[03:51] <wallyworld_> stub: sounds better. for some reason i thought we frowned upon default values for non null columns though?
[03:51] <wallyworld_> and i think the default needs to be false
[03:52] <wgrant> False is bad.
[03:52] <stub> We frown on adding a new column with a DEFAULT, as that causes all rows in the table to be rewritten with the new DEFAULT.
[03:52] <stub> Adding a DEFAULT to an existing column is fine
[03:52] <wallyworld_> stub: ok
[03:52] <wallyworld_> stub: if the trigger fails, will the row be rolled back?
[03:53] <stub> wallyworld_: I chose DEFAULT TRUE because if the trigger is broken (it isn't), we default to private. Either TRUE or FALSE should be fine as the DEFAULT>
[03:53] <stub> wallyworld_: Yes, if the trigger fails the whole transaction will be rolled back.
[03:53] <wallyworld_> stub: wgrant: the reason for me asking for default = false is that i need to check the short circuit rules in the trigger
[03:54] <stub> ok
[03:54] <wallyworld_> if transitively_private is true, then it may not bother doing anything
[03:54] <stub> short circuit checks private, not transitively_private
[03:54] <stub> But double checking is good :-)
[03:55] <stub> Tests are better...
[03:55] <wallyworld_> yes, agreed. i will write one now that we are taking this approach
[03:55] <stub> Hmm... the MP has gone
[03:56] <stub> lifeless did not realize the field is already maintained with the AFTER trigger
[03:56] <wallyworld_> stub: i renamed the branch
[03:56] <wallyworld_> in anticipation of landing it in two parts
[03:56] <stub> You can rename branches?
[03:56] <wallyworld_> i'll rename it back
[03:56] <wallyworld_> yes, apparently :-)
[03:57] <stub> I managed to misspell logintoken as lockfile in my branch name the other day...
[03:57] <wallyworld_> stub: renamed back now
[03:57] <wallyworld_> go to the branch details link
[03:58] <wallyworld_> and you can rename
[04:37] <StevenK> Can haz review? https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/refactor-team-rename/+merge/78037
[04:56] <StevenK> Obviously, the answer to that question is "no".
[04:57] <wgrant> Indeed.
[04:57] <wgrant> So.
[04:57] <wgrant> You've moved it into the model, apparently.
[04:57] <wgrant> Which is probably where it should be.
[04:57] <wgrant> But...
[04:58] <wgrant> Person and Team don't need a model mixin, because they're both the same class.
[04:58] <StevenK> So make it a method in IPerson itself?
[04:58] <StevenK> reason = self.context.can_be_renamed() or so?
[04:59] <wgrant> Quick possibly. checkRename or something like that.
[05:00]  * StevenK refactors the refactor
[05:00] <wgrant> StevenK: Also, can you put the "has" in the template?
[05:00] <wgrant> Removes the has_ppa check under has_mailing_list.
[05:00] <StevenK> But I can't ...
[05:01] <wgrant> Why not?
[05:01] <StevenK> Because it changes the prose for the both check
[05:01] <wgrant> This %s has %s and may not be renamed.
[05:02] <StevenK> "has a PPA ... and has a mailing list" versus "has a PPA and a mailing list"
[05:02] <wgrant> %s is "an active PPA with packages published", "a mailing list", or "an active PPA with packages published and a mailing list"
[05:02] <StevenK> Oh
[05:02] <StevenK> Right
[05:02] <wgrant> Also, possibly s/user/person/
[05:02] <StevenK> Also fixed
[05:11] <lifeless> is there a reviewer in the house ?
[05:13] <lifeless> https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops-datedir-repo/hashing/+merge/78039
[05:21] <wgrant> lifeless: Why BSON? :(
[05:22] <wgrant> These are going to be even less readable than SSO OOPSes.
[05:24] <lifeless> wgrant: decoders exist; handles binary crud (which we get like it or not)
[05:24] <wgrant> And makes it just about impossible to view OOPSes unless oops-tools is agreeable and fast.
[05:24] <wgrant> neither of which is true.
[05:25] <lifeless> this is a component in fixing that
[05:25] <wgrant> And until then our error analysis capabilities are crippled.
[05:25] <lifeless> how so ?
[05:25] <wgrant> It becomes extremely difficult to respond in realtime to complaints involving OOPSes.
[05:26] <lifeless> details dude
[05:26] <lifeless> give me the details
[05:26] <wgrant> I don't speak BSON.
[05:26] <wgrant> text editors don't like BSON.
[05:26] <wgrant> oops-tools is slow to render, and even slower to pick up OOPSes, and often doesn't ever see them at all.
[05:26] <lifeless> import bson; bson.loads(open('foo', 'rb'))
[05:26] <wgrant> Mmm, perhaps.
[05:26] <wgrant> OK.
[05:27] <lifeless> slow to render is as yet undiagnosed.  But they are *already* a PITA to get at - and trivially decoded using... bson
[05:32] <wgrant> It is trivial.
[05:32] <lifeless> StevenK: its a barrier to -some- forms of contribution, but I look at a local oops about once a month, if that.
[05:33] <StevenK> I tend to look at OOPS on carob using cat, now I won't be able to. :-(
[05:33] <lifeless> StevenK: pages will still show backtraces to local devs, the console backtrace will still be plain text
[05:33] <wgrant> But analysis of dev and prod OOPSes at the moment is now often done by means of cat, grep and cut
[05:33] <StevenK> I hate our oops-tools app
[05:33] <lifeless> so fix it
[05:33] <StevenK> Sure, in the oddles of free time I have?
[05:33] <wgrant> Right, we should fix it.
[05:33] <wgrant> But *before* we break everything that isn't it.
[05:33] <wgrant> I don't see why BSON has to happen at the same time as hashes.
[05:33] <lifeless> we are -stalled- on multiple important improvements to our data gathering - to whit, extra info on appserver resource usage, clearer metadata, evolving the damn thing.
[05:33] <wgrant> It seems unrelated.
[05:34] <lifeless> they are separate fields in the repository object, and we can configure them however we want.
[05:34] <lifeless> e.g. dev mode can use rfc822 if you don't mind extra data being dropped.
[05:35] <StevenK> wgrant: Can you have another look at my MP?
[05:35] <wgrant> StevenK: Was just doing so.
[05:35] <wgrant> lifeless: What is the benefit in moving to BSON at the same time?
[05:35] <lifeless> again, claiming this is breaking things is very exaggerated. Yes, the shell pipelines you used won't work. Are they intractably different with a new serializer? No.
[05:35] <StevenK> +71 -44 makes me a little sad. I prefer removing more code than I add.
[05:36] <lifeless> wgrant: A) I haven't moved anything to bson, B) see above.
[05:37] <wgrant> 87+ Defaults to using serializer_bson.
[05:37] <StevenK> Hm, this might be able to be refactored further.
[05:37] <lifeless> yes
[05:38] <lifeless> but our packages are version locked, except perhaps txlongpoll which I haven't looked into, so when bumping the version, if we want rfc822 explicitly we can do that. Its not coupled to *this* merge proposal.
[05:38] <lifeless> (Separately, yes, I plan to use bson when I update the dep in LP, I'm being pedandtic because of the hyperbole you're tossing at this)
[05:42] <lifeless> wgrant: so, what are you asking be written before we change to bson ?
[05:42] <wgrant> Well, ideally we would have OOPS analysis tools that didn't involve obscene shell pipelines.
[05:43] <wgrant> But that seems to not be practical.
[05:43] <lifeless> wgrant: (Note that 'do not break anything' is incompatible and I reject that out of hand) So it 'provide a full text index' - we have plenty of ability to search with os.walkdirs + bson in an adhoc manner, IF/when oops-tools fails to meet our needs.
[05:43] <lifeless> wgrant: I would *love* to run up solr etc and JFDI
[05:44] <lifeless> wgrant: but thats a long pipeline, and I'm tired of getting significantly better data from oopses being blocked - when the change needed to do it differently is not all /that/ big
[05:46] <lifeless> again though, policy vs requirements - this branch lets us choose
[05:46] <StevenK> Blah, too hard to refactor further. Mainly because browser/person.py is *obscene*
[05:47] <lifeless> wgrant: your smoketest branch - +1
[05:48] <wgrant> lifeless: Thanks, I'll propose it properly in a sec.
[05:49] <StevenK> wgrant: Can haz a vote?
[05:49] <wgrant> lifeless: A couple of questions, but yours is approved.
[05:51] <lifeless> wgrant: oops-pruner
[05:51] <lifeless> wgrant: thanks
[05:51] <wgrant> lifeless: But they're normally on disk as 1234.ABC1234
[05:51] <wgrant> Not OOPS-*
[05:52] <StevenK> wgrant: I've just pushed a change to make {Person,Team}EditView.setUpWidgets() identical, but it's very hard to refactor further.
[05:52] <wgrant> StevenK: REFACTOR FURTHER
[05:52] <wgrant> Always refactor further.
[05:52] <lifeless> wgrant: yes, but the *id* is normally OOPS-blah. And using the id directly is simpler than using the id minus OOPS-
[05:53] <lifeless> wgrant: also, the name on disk at the moment is all to do with sorting
[05:53] <wgrant> True.
[05:53] <wgrant> Go ahead, then.
[05:54] <StevenK> wgrant: I tried. TeamEditView can't use BasePersonEditView as a parent due to circular import hell.
[05:54] <wgrant> Oh?
[05:54] <wgrant> browser.person import browser.team?
[05:55] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/702084/
[05:57] <wgrant> StevenK: WTF, why does browser.person import from browser.team?
[05:58] <wgrant> Move Team*Menu into browser.team
[05:58] <StevenK> classImplements(TeamIndexView, ITeamIndexMenu)
[05:58] <StevenK> classImplements(TeamEditView, ITeamEditMenu)
[05:59] <StevenK> But yes, that's a little screwed.
[06:26] <lifeless> jamesh: hi
[07:07] <rvba> Morning.
[07:07] <rvba> wgrant: Hi William, thanks for QA'ing my +initseries branch ;).
[07:08] <wgrant> It turned out to not be so important, but it was easy enough :)
[07:09] <jamesh> lifeless: hi
[07:09] <rvba> Always nice to start my day with a qa-ok message from the other side of the planet ;)
[07:10] <lifeless> jamesh: ola~
[07:10] <lifeless> jamesh: so, two things; oops-datedir-repo can write bson reports now (and trunk oops-tools can read them)
[07:11] <lifeless> jamesh: this makes extension and handling a -lot- easier, I think you'll agree ;)
[07:11] <jamesh> yep.
[07:12] <lifeless> jamesh: secondly, I was wondering if you'd tried integrating stuff again? [I'd love to have an answer for getting oopses into the oops-tools django app itself, for instance]
[07:13] <jamesh> lifeless: I haven't done much since we last talked.  My test u1 branch does log reports with unmodified Django (by subclassing Django's WSGI handler)
[07:14] <lifeless> perhaps that subclass should be in oops-* somewhere? I don't know enough django to know if that makes sense
[07:15] <lifeless> jamesh: also, thats awesome - we're in business ;)
[07:15] <lifeless> wgrant: as promised (and as penalty you get the review :P) https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops/hostname/+merge/78053
[07:17] <jamesh> lifeless: http://paste.ubuntu.com/702108/ <- Using this instead of the standard WSGIHandler should be enough.
[07:18] <jamesh> actually, that plus oops_on_status=['500']
[07:18] <wgrant> lifeless: Approved.
[07:18] <jamesh> for the oops-wsgi middleware
[07:18] <wgrant> With missing apostrophe.
[07:18] <lifeless> wgrant: and aggregate->aggregation
[07:19] <lifeless> wgrant: do you mean 'machines''s' ?
[07:19] <wgrant> Right.
[07:21] <lifeless> wgrant: on thursday, can I pick your brain on wabbit ?
[07:22] <wgrant> lifeless: Of course.
[07:22] <lifeless> jamesh: is there a preferred way to receive rabbit events in django ?
[07:25] <jamesh> lifeless: I don't think so.  We've been handling them in a Twisted reactor running as a separate thread
[07:25] <lifeless> aieeee
[07:26] <lifeless> jamesh: how have you been handing off back to django code? or are you calling it from deferToThread sort of things?
[07:26] <lifeless> bbiab
[07:27] <jamesh> lifeless: I haven't poked too deeply in this area, but I think we're usually pushing out messages from Django views rather than receiving them
[07:28] <jamesh> Django is not that well suited to long-poll style request handling, which is the main type of request I'd expect to want to receive messages
[07:29] <lifeless> jamesh: I want to add oopses to the django db as they happen
[07:29] <lifeless> jamesh: and write them to disk likewise
[07:30] <wgrant> I smell a daemon...
[07:30] <wgrant> Doing that from the WSGI app seems, er, aaaaaaa
[07:30] <lifeless> wgrant: we have one
[07:31] <lifeless> wgrant: doing that from outside the django transaction is also aaaaaa
[07:31] <wgrant> Huh?
[07:31] <StevenK> OMG, there's so much Team stuff in browser/person.py :-(
[07:31] <jamesh> lifeless: okay.  So I probably wouldn't try to squeeze that into a Django web app.  You could certainly use the Django ORM from a separate daemon that receives the messages.
[07:31] <wgrant> That would seem like the least insane way to go about things.
[07:32] <wgrant> Unless we're using SQLite, running it in a separate process should really be less than a problem.
[07:32] <StevenK> wgrant: I've moved the classes that caused the circular import, shall I explode the size of this branch and move everything that they depend on too?
[07:32] <jamesh> wgrant: why would sqlite be a problem?
[07:32] <wgrant> jamesh: SQLite doesn't do multiple writers, does it?
[07:33] <jamesh> wgrant: pretty sure it does.
[07:33] <lifeless> it does
[07:33] <jamesh> I'm sure it is possible to configure the locking out of it, but I'm pretty sure it is in by default
[07:33] <lifeless> but you need latest shiny
[07:33] <lifeless> and its still got a large lock even tuned optimally
[07:34] <lifeless> we can do a separate daemon, though I have an aesthetic dislike - I'd rather have an API on the one app and not poke into its backend
[07:34] <jamesh> I don't think you're in any worse situation by having two processes accessing the database than a single process accessing the database from multiple threads with multiple connection objects
[07:34] <lifeless> OTOH I don't want to make this a pile of yak shaving
[07:34] <lifeless> jamesh: we're using pgsql anyhow
[07:35] <lifeless> 27M oops reports would give even sqlite a bit of a hernia
[07:35] <lifeless> without -very- careful tuning
[07:35] <jamesh> lifeless: well, you can use your Django ORM classes outside of a web app.
[07:35] <jamesh> I'm not suggesting that you duplicate all the application logic
[07:35]  * StevenK prods wgrant.
[07:35] <lifeless> jamesh: sure, I know :)
[07:36] <lifeless> jamesh: like I said, its an aesthetic. We'd avoid a lot of issues in LP if we did that there, for instance.
[07:36] <wgrant> StevenK: Sorry, missed that. Could you possibly move it in a prereq?
[07:36]  * lifeless shrugs, we can start with a daemon and db access and switch to daemon + web api later
[07:37] <StevenK> wgrant: BLEH
[07:38] <jamesh> you'll just have to make sure your separate daemon process sets $DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE to something sensible before importing django
[07:54] <StevenK> wgrant: This pipe is already 1885 lines and I'm not finished yet.
[07:54] <wgrant> :D
[07:56] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, every {I,}Team class moved is 2006 lines.
[07:56] <StevenK> Now to fix __all__ and imports
[07:56] <StevenK> And configure.zcml
[07:58] <nigelb> StevenK: Nice cleaning :)
[07:59] <StevenK> OH GOD, IT BURNS
[08:01] <StevenK> PersonNavigation needs TeamMembershipSelfRenewalView, PersonView needs TeamJoinMixin and TeamOverviewMenu.
[08:01] <StevenK> circular imports a-go-go
[08:01] <StevenK> wgrant: ^
[08:04] <StevenK> Oh damn, and the Mixin is a parent class.
[08:04] <wgrant> Hah.
[08:04] <StevenK>  /wrists
[08:04] <wgrant> But why would PersonView need TeamJoinMixin?
[08:05] <wgrant> Oh no.
[08:05] <wgrant> I think PersonView might be used for teams as well.
[08:05] <bigjools> StevenK: surely your wrists are used to the strain
[08:05] <StevenK> wgrant: Looks like it.
[08:06] <wgrant> Ah, TeamIndexView
[08:06] <wgrant> Hopefully you can export TeamIndexView to browser.team, and take TeamJoinMixin over there.
[08:06] <StevenK> I've already moved it.
[08:06] <StevenK> I moved every {I,}Team class.
[08:07] <StevenK> Now I'm trying to make pyflakes happy
[08:07] <wgrant> Change TeamIndexView to inherit TeamJoinMixin, instead of PersonView inheriting it.
[08:07] <wgrant> Hopefully only the team views need it.
[08:09] <bigjools> StevenK: I mean from playing WoW of course... :)
[08:10] <StevenK> bigjools: I quit WoW 3 months ago.
[08:10] <bigjools> StevenK: good grief, are you feeling ok?
[08:12] <StevenK> And that is why I didn't tell many people.
[08:13] <bigjools> online games are like a drug addiction - I've gone cold turkey twice now
[08:15] <jamesh> lifeless: fwiw, the Django bug report about fixing the WSGIHandler to not need that fix is no longer in the "design decision needed" black hole
[08:15] <lifeless> jamesh: did it win or lose ?
[08:16] <jamesh> lifeless: https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/16674 <- they moved it to accepted, and wanted more verification that the change wouldn't cause problems.
[08:16] <lifeless> \o/
[08:29] <StevenK> wgrant: pyflakes clean, 2287 lines
[08:34] <wgrant> StevenK: But does it run? :)
[08:34] <StevenK> No, not yet.
[08:35] <StevenK> Fighting with ZCML
[08:44] <StevenK> wgrant: I have a small subset of tests passing, 2477 lines.
[08:44] <wgrant> Heh.
[08:45] <StevenK> Let me toss me it at ec2 to find the rest.
[11:11] <poolie> stub, hi?
[11:11] <stub> yo
[11:11] <poolie> stub, can you suggest what to do on bug 866160?
[11:11] <poolie> sorry bug 866100
[11:11] <_mup_> Bug #866100: bug search with affects_me=on times out <affectsmetoo> <bugs> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/866100 >
[11:13] <stub> poolie: Need the OOPS to sync
[11:14] <poolie> hm and now it's not timing out
[11:14] <poolie> how uncooperative
[11:14] <nigelb> poolie: I think it times out on first try
[11:14] <nigelb> (and then caches)
[11:14] <poolie> that's likely
[11:14] <poolie> well, the oops will sync later
[11:14] <nigelb> It timed out once for me, refreshed later.
[11:16] <nigelb> I'm looking forward to 2 days of lp hacking \o/ Holidays!
[11:17] <poolie> :)
[11:19]  * gmb -> lunch
[11:20] <poolie> stub, i put an example failing query there, in case that helps
[11:20] <poolie> good night now
[11:20] <nigelb> g'nite poolie
[11:22] <stub> poolie: We don't know if that is the slow query. All we know is that it is the query being run when the timeout was hit.
[11:23] <poolie> that is true, but that's similar to the query that was sometimes very slow when run on qas and by losas on prod
[11:23] <poolie> anyhow no rush
[11:24] <stub> If it is, things to try are to move the BugTask.id IN () subquery using BugAffectsPerson into a normal join, or to enforce it is actually run as a subquery rather than the planner turning it into a normal join by using a WITH clause.
[11:25] <stub> I can reproduce with a simpler query on production.
[11:26] <stub> I don't think either of those options I mentioned will help greatly here
[11:31] <stub> We are ordering results using a field on Bug, but all the selection is going on in bugtask.
[11:34] <stub> Not sure what we can do here. We can optimize for the case where we know we will not match many BugTask rows, but if we wanted to do 'All bugs targetted to Launchpad, order by date_last_updated' it would likely fail.
[12:29] <bac> hi gmb, can i get a review when you have time?  i apologize it is way over our agreed size limit
[12:29] <gmb> bac: Sure. I should be able to take a look at it within the next hour or so.
[12:29] <bac> thanks gmb
[14:19] <deryck> abentley, hey, hey.  Sorry the vet visit toook *much* longer than I expected.
[14:19] <abentley> deryck: that's okay.
[14:19] <abentley> deryck: lemme grab my coffee, and we can chat.
[14:19] <deryck> abentley, let me just get settled in and we can chat briefly for a standup.
[14:20] <deryck> abentley, yeah, give me 10 minutes.
[14:21]  * beuno hands gmb bug #867529
[14:21] <_mup_> Bug #867529: Dynamic loading comments load on top of page content <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/867529 >
[14:29] <deryck> abentley, heading into mumble now.
[14:30] <gmb> beuno: Thanks
[14:32] <rvba> gmb: Would you have time to mentor a review of mine?
[14:33] <gmb> rvba: I've got a large review to do for bac first, so you might be better served finding another reviewer to mentor you on this one.
[14:34] <rvba> gmb: Okay ;)
[14:59] <sinzui> gmb, do you have time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/dsp-historic-attributes/+merge/78106
[14:59] <gmb> sinzui: I'm currently reviewing a large branch for bac, but I'll try to get to it this afternoon if I have time.
[15:01]  * bac hangs head
[15:05] <sinzui> oh. damn. I should of claimed that this morning because I read half of it
[15:06] <sinzui> jcsackett, do you have time to mumble?
[16:11] <deryck> skaet, ping
[16:11] <skaet> deryck, pong
[16:11] <gmb> sinzui: I'm afraid I won't be able to get to your branch today as I have to get a few other things done before my rapidly-approaching EoD. I believe StevenK is next on the list of reviewers.
[16:11] <sinzui> thanks
[16:12] <deryck> skaet, I'm trying to QA bug 834082.  Can you try poking the issue you reported at our qastaging server and see if it's fixed for you?
[16:12] <_mup_> Bug #834082: Cannot target a bug to a series from an existing series task <critical-analysis> <qa-needstesting> <regression> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by deryck> <Ubuntu:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/834082 >
[16:12] <gmb> bac: r=me (with comments). Excellent work, thank you.
[16:12] <bac> thanks gmb
[16:12]  * bac didn't do most of it, of course
[16:13] <skaet> deryck, will try.
[16:13] <deryck> skaet, thanks!  Here's a starting point, if you're not familiar with qastaging:  https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
[16:14] <deryck> skaet, qastaging can timeout so it's worth a reload or two if you hit a timeout.
[16:18]  * skaet gets the timeouts....
[16:19] <deryck> skaet, do you even get to a bug page?
[16:19] <skaet> deryck,  get the bugs in oneiric page from the link you gave just fine.   However not being able to get to 834082
[16:19] <deryck> ah, that sucks.
[16:21] <deryck> skaet, will another bug work?
[16:22] <skaet> deryck,  can you give me a link to that bug page directly?   May be faster than searching.
[16:23] <deryck> skaet, https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/834082
[16:23] <_mup_> Bug #834082: Cannot target a bug to a series from an existing series task <critical-analysis> <qa-needstesting> <regression> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by deryck> <Ubuntu:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/834082 >
[16:26] <skaet> deryck, that got it.    will poke around.
[16:26] <deryck> skaet, thanks!
[17:02] <jcsackett> sinzui: available to talk for a few?
[17:02] <sinzui> okay
[17:25] <gmb>  e
[17:26]  * gmb chuckles at rockstar's response to https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/867661.
[17:26] <_mup_> Bug #867661: Useless Comments on Bug Reports <Launchpad itself:Opinion> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/867661 >
[17:26] <rockstar> gmb, he left it open.
[17:27] <gmb> rockstar: Oh, indeed. In fact, I was half tempted to reply in the same vein until I saw you'd beat me to the punch :)
[17:32] <sinzui> jcsackett, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/867718
[17:32] <_mup_> Bug #867718: DSP picker entries are redundant <target-picker> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by sinzui> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/867718 >
[17:33] <deryck> skaet, any luck checking that out?
[17:38] <sinzui>  I see txlongpoll is taking 8% of my CPU all the time. That does not bode well. Nothing should preform worse than xorg
[17:47] <skaet> deryck, got pulled into release issues while still trying,  will take a pass at it later this afternoon.
[17:48] <deryck> skaet, ok, no problem.  Thanks!
[19:42] <abentley> gary_poster: bzrlib.branch.Branch* is never security-proxied, but LoomBranch* is security-proxied.  I think they should be the same, but I've had trouble figuring out why bzrlib.branch.Branch isn't security-proxied.
[19:44] <gary_poster> abentley, mwhudson put in some code for that in lib/lp_sitecustomize.  I suspect that's what you are looking for.  Look for dont_wrap_class_and_subclasses in that module, and its uses.
[19:44] <abentley> gary_poster: thanks.
[19:44] <gary_poster> welcome
[19:50] <mwhudson> oh yes, that fun
[19:57] <mwhudson> oh dear, my ec2 failure mail is so large emacs crashes opening it
[20:05] <abentley> gary_poster, mwhudson: my fix: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/702418/
[20:06] <gary_poster> abentley, interesting.  Comments make it good AFAI am concerned.
[20:06] <mwhudson> abentley: i wonder if moving the code that sets up BZR_PLUGIN_PATH to lp_sitecustomize might be better in some ways?
[20:06]  * gary_poster defers to mwhudson :-)
[20:06] <mwhudson> then there are a few random imports of lp.codehosting that can just go away
[20:06] <mwhudson> gary_poster: i haven't thought about it very hard!
[20:07] <gary_poster> :-)
[20:07] <abentley> mwhudson: I think I was on crack to make an import have side effects like enabling plugins.
[20:08] <mwhudson> abentley: i think this crack predates you on the lp team doesn't it?  but yes
[20:09] <mwhudson> there is a slight argument that say, the appservers, should not import lp.codehosting at all and so won't have plugins enabled
[20:09] <mwhudson> but if that's the way we want to go, they should be separate code bases (hi rob!)
[20:11] <abentley> mwhudson: No, it was basically the first thing I did on the team.
[20:11] <mwhudson> ah ok
[20:12] <abentley> mwhudson: as long as the appservers are the private xmlrpc servers, they need to support loom branches.
[20:13] <mwhudson> err how so?>
[20:14] <abentley> mwhudson: Oh, I guess they operate at a lower level, providing transports, so they don't actually need to know about branch formats.
[20:14] <mwhudson> yeah, just paths on disk
[20:15] <mwhudson> so my ec2 test run appears to have failed, basically because the db started erroring all the time about half way through
[20:17] <mwhudson> ah, it's hard_timeout checking
[20:27]  * jelmer waves to abentley, mwhudson
[20:27]  * abentley waves at jelmer
[20:27]  * mwhudson waves back
[20:27] <mwhudson> oh god everything is broken
[20:41] <mwhudson> # XXX Julian 2009-05-13, bug=376171
[20:41] <mwhudson> # Temporarily disabled because of intermittent failures.
[20:41] <mwhudson> 2.5 years of temporary
[20:42] <jelmer> mwhudson: 2.5 years is nothing compared to what the early Launchpad and Ubuntu specs planned to do in a single cycle
[20:42] <mwhudson> haha true
[20:43] <mwhudson> launchpad.canonical.com from about 2006 should be put online as a kind of massive example of how not to do project management
[20:46] <jelmer> heh
[20:46] <jelmer> http://web.archive.org/web/20060611133645/https://launchpad.net/
[20:48] <mwhudson> ploooooooooooooone!
[20:48] <mwhudson> or at least, it's css
[20:49] <jelmer> heh, indeed
[21:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: yeah there is a little bootstrap issue with hard timeouts
[21:27] <lifeless> mwhudson: will be if/when we make soft ones flagged too
[21:27] <lifeless> mwhudson: mmm, perhaps not. Anyhow, hard for sure
[21:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: yeah, the permit_timeout_from_features flag is now on the request too in my branch
[21:28] <mwhudson> lifeless: it's not reliably reset between tests in devel currently, so if it gets set (say by a test publication) and a test runs that sets up a feature controller before it gets reset... hilarity ensues
[21:29] <lifeless> mwhudson: win
[21:29] <mwhudson> (and one of the parts of my branch that i'm not 100% sure about is that a lot more tests set up a feature controller now)
[21:29] <lifeless> so you asked yesterday about null feature controller and ltr
[21:30] <lifeless> IIRC LTR is used in layers that don't have all the bits assembled, was the reason.
[21:32] <mwhudson> yeah, that makes some kind of sense
[21:32] <mwhudson> but i bet those tests don't actually access the feature controller
[21:32] <mwhudson> (bit fragile of course)
[21:32] <lifeless> you'll find out, or go mad trying.
[21:32] <lifeless> I'm betting on mad.
[21:33] <mwhudson> i'm hoping ec2 test will find out :-)
[21:33]  * mwhudson might actually claim for his ec2 expenses this month...
[21:34] <lifeless> if its more than the cost of doing expense claims ? :)
[23:37] <lifeless> flacoste: http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Innovate-or-Suffer-Slow-Brain-Asphyxiation/ba-p/499 is good reading
[23:55] <mwhudson> haha, if you wiggle things around so that feature flags are active most of the time, a few sql effort tests fail


[09:52] <RicardoAbreu[m]> Hi d1rewolf, you can just leave the VM running when you shutdown
[09:52] <RicardoAbreu[m]> Multipass will start it again when coming back up
[13:16] <d1rewolf> RicardoAbreu[m]: ah...was not aware of that. is there a way to configure this behavior and force a VM to always start?
[13:58] <RicardoAbreu[m]> not currently, no
[13:58] <RicardoAbreu[m]> d1rewolf: multipass tries to restore the previous state
[19:49] <d1rewolf> RicardoAbreu[m]: ok, thank you. I appreciate the info
[19:50] <RicardoAbreu[m]>  * d1rewolf: you're welcome!
[19:51] <RicardoAbreu[m]> (ignore the edit)
[19:51] <RicardoAbreu[m]> d1rewolf: you're welcome!


[01:54] <uBUXUBu> what is the equivalent of microsoft pain in the kubuntu? i wnt to take a screen shot of my desktop and upload it too an site online?
[01:54] <uBUXUBu> want*
[01:55] <uBUXUBu> or is there i simpler way...like press contrl p or something
[02:01] <ScorchGD> Kubuntu 13.10 Audio Device always reverts back to HDMI on reboot. Doesn't matter how it's set up. Always reverts back to HDMI on reboot. . . Any suggestions?
[02:02] <uBUXUBu> ahh looks like it is kolourpaint
[02:02] <uBUXUBu> cant believe noone answered that one
[02:03] <uBUXUBu> oh well google is my friend i guess....
[02:03] <ScorchGD> Found one bug report about this but no follow up.  https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=300217
[02:04] <ScorchGD> Running a fairly late model MB. Dell inspiron 660 just purchased this year.
[02:05] <ScorchGD> I wouldn't mind except not all monitors have HDMI audio and this one kills the audio whenever the monitor is shut off. . . .
[02:07] <ScorchGD> The only solution, I know of, is to install a PCI audio card and disable unboard audio. . .
[02:07] <ScorchGD> unboard=onboard.
[02:09] <ScorchGD> Deffinately a repeatable bug. Hope it gets fixed soon. . .
[02:13] <ScorchGD> Your assistance is appreciated. Have to go.
[05:01] <sharpertongue> someone took my username wtf
[08:02] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:22] <kuroko> hi
[08:22] <kuroko> bug kde
[08:22] <lordievader> Hey kuroko
[08:23] <kuroko> use aegisub, next to view black screen for * in the left
[08:27] <kuroko> how added log ?
[08:27] <kuroko> Where added log
[08:27] <kuroko> ?
[08:28] <lordievader> kuroko: Logs are usually placed in /var/log/
[08:28] <kuroko> ok, how view log code in console
[08:31] <lordievader> kuroko: They are simply text files, so you can read them with "cat", "less", "more", head", "tail", etc.
[08:34] <kuroko> heh
[08:34] <kuroko> ok
[08:35] <kuroko> i look in folder in dolphin
[08:35] <kuroko> file, folder, i'm not view aegisub log file
[08:36] <kuroko> problem it is gnome file
[08:36] <kuroko> fix system reinstall
[08:36] <kuroko> oh no
[08:37] <lordievader> kuroko: Does aegisub log to a file? And is that file located in /var/log?
[08:37] <valorie> !info aegisub
[08:37] <lordievader> Hmm not many command-line switches: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/raring/man1/aegisub-2.1.1.html
[08:38] <lordievader> Config file maybe?
[08:39] <kuroko> I'm use aegifile 3.x
[08:41] <kuroko> /usr/share/doc/aegisub-3.0.4/  not find folder
[08:42] <lordievader> kuroko: Do you know that there is a Polish Ubuntu channel? #ubuntu-pl, not sure if it is busy there though.
[08:43] <kuroko> I know
[08:43] <valorie> esp. on xmas morning!
[08:43] <kuroko> but there I can not find a solution.
[08:43] <valorie> not everyone is as crazy as us.....
[08:47] <kuroko> nara
[08:47] <lordievader> Anyhow I'm not familliar with aegisub/aegifile. Not sure if the program is capable of producing logs. When you run it from a terminal do you get output in the terminal?
[08:48] <kuroko> no
[08:49] <valorie> even if you do `aegisub --debug`?
[08:49] <kuroko> please wait ok
[08:50] <kuroko> aegisub: nie znaleziono polecenia
[08:50] <kuroko> translate aegisub: not found comend
[08:50] <valorie> :(
[08:51] <kuroko> also bug in gtk3
[08:51] <kuroko> ubuntu+KDE = bug heh
[08:52] <kuroko> thx for help siema
[08:52] <valorie> http://docs.aegisub.org/manual/Aegisub_path_specifiers
[08:53] <valorie> did you look in $HOME/.aegisub/. ?
[08:54] <kuroko> clean install kubuntu, maybe it's something to do with ubuntu
[08:54] <kuroko> $HOME/.aegisub/. yes i am view file
[08:55] <kuroko> autosave - save my translate sub cache
[08:55] <valorie> cool -- any help there?
[08:55] <kuroko> where are logs crash program
[08:56] <kuroko> folder log in view translate eng
[08:57] <kuroko> send you config file ?
[08:57] <kuroko> i am view it http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6655/83z2.png
[08:58] <lordievader> kuroko: What is in the log folder?
[08:59] <kuroko>  log folder view http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4295/zp61.png
[09:00] <lordievader> kuroko: You said that the program crashes?
[09:02] <kuroko> i see black screen , for white * for left
[09:02] <kuroko> login manger it gdm
[09:03] <kuroko> he is worked after blue screen
[09:03] <kuroko> always me then logs off
[09:04] <kuroko> I just need something to click
[09:04] <lordievader> kuroko: So if I understand correctly, you start the program, you get a black screen and then you go back to the login screen?
[09:04] <kuroko> yes
[09:05] <kuroko> but after some time the  working program
[09:06] <lordievader> Wow, X crashes because of a program misbehaving. What graphics card do you have and what driver do you use?
[09:07] <kuroko> Intel HD grafic use default driver
[09:09] <lordievader> kuroko: Could you pastebin the output of: lspci -k|grep -A 2 VGA
[09:09] <lordievader> !pastebin
[09:10] <kuroko> use hot shots in screen automatic upload imageshack heh
[09:10] <kuroko> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
[09:10] <kuroko>         Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device 0612
[09:10] <kuroko>         Kernel driver in use: i915
[09:11] <lordievader> That seems to be allright... Do you have an alternative for aegisub?
[09:12] <kuroko> no,
[09:13] <lordievader> kuroko: Did this program work correctly when you where running Unity?
[09:14] <kuroko> crash in gnome 3, kde, unity
[09:15] <kuroko> i think problem in gtk3 file
[09:16] <lordievader> kuroko: You mentioned gdm, what version of (K)Ubuntu are you running?
[09:16] <kuroko>  http://blog.aegisub.org/  new 3.1 in the way
[09:17] <kuroko> 3.10
[09:17] <lordievader> kuroko: Do you mean 13.10?
[09:18] <kuroko> Ubuntu 13.10 for kde
[09:19] <kuroko> In kde crashes after a long time, the gnome 3/unity faster
[09:21] <lordievader> kuroko: Ok, 13.10 uses Lightdm by default instead of gdm (just some info). Regarding the program, if it crashes under all the major DE's you start to suspect the program. Have you ran it sucessfully in the past (with 13.04, or something)?
[09:23] <kuroko> no
[09:23] <kuroko> i'm installed 13.10
[09:23] <lordievader> kuroko: Have you ever ran the program sucessfully?
[09:24] <kuroko> Yes,
[09:25] <kuroko> but i 'm edit ok 5 minutes
[09:25] <kuroko> next to crash view
[09:26] <lordievader> kuroko: Ok, where the conditions the same when it ran succesfully?
[09:27] <kuroko> yes,  edit file only 5 minutes
[09:28] <lordievader> kuroko: So if I understand correctly, you have ran the program successfully. You have changed nothing and now it crashes?
[09:30] <kuroko> no, crashed is when editing more than 5 minutes
[09:31] <valorie> kuroko: do you have enough RAM?
[09:32] <valorie> sounds like you might be running out of memory
[09:32] <lordievader> I get the feeling it is just a buggy program, my advice is to search for an alternative.
[09:32] <kuroko> 4 GB ram
[09:32] <kuroko> ram used ok 1,2 GB for 4GB
[09:37] <valorie> ok
[09:37] <valorie> just an idea
[09:56] <alac> hey there, anyone here who could help me installing minecraft on kubuntu?i have some problems with installing java i guess
[09:56] <kuroko> use playonlinux app
[09:59] <alac> ok i will try
[10:02] <kuroko> http://www.playonlinux.com/pl/download.html
[10:03] <alac> ty
[10:04] <vmusr> Did the appmenu runner made it to Kubuntu 13.10 ?
[10:04] <vmusr> to have the "HUD" functionality present in Unity?
[10:07] <alac> how to install java on kubuntu? it always tells me "package not found"
[10:09] <vmusr> alac, how you're trying to install it
[10:09] <vmusr> alac, and do you mean OpenJDK or Oracle's ?
[10:10] <alac> i tried this one: sudo apt-get install openjdk-7-jre icedtea-7-plugin
[10:10] <alac> i am quite new to kubuntu, i mean the java stuff i need to play MC xD
[10:13] <vmusr> and what's the output of apt-get update?
[10:14] <vmusr> are your sources correct?
[10:16] <alac> right now its downloading, i'll give it a try
[10:21] <alac> not it tells me the mc.jar is not executable
[10:42] <alac> nevermind i got it to work, thanks anyway :)
[12:13] <DARKSTR3AM> bonjour
[12:13] <DARKSTR3AM> ya til des francais?
[12:13] <DARKSTR3AM> jaurai besoin daide svp
[12:14] <DARKSTR3AM> svp?
[12:15] <DARKSTR3AM> some french ?
[12:15] <DARKSTR3AM> chouette la comunauter
[12:16] <DARKSTR3AM> on mavais dit que cetait sympa ici et que je pouvais trouver de laide mais bon tjr des mensonge
[13:36] <BluesKaj> Merry Christmas to all !
[14:11] <Vimar> Hi Kubuntu's Users
[14:11] <lordievader> Hey Vimar
[14:11] <BluesKaj> hey Vimar
[14:12] <Vimar> how are yoy BluesKaj
[14:13] <BluesKaj> fine thanks Vimar , and you ?
[14:14] <Vimar> Good thanks BluesKaj
[14:15] <Vimar> just checking olt times :-)
[14:15] <Vimar> I see freenode is the only working Irc server
[14:16] <Vimar> others works as well but are DEATH
[14:17] <Vimar> Checked Usenet as well, not many people use it today :-(
[14:25] <Vimar> Hi Akishona
[14:56] <Vimar> I wonder if is possible to make windows from Dekstop 1 not visible if I change to Dekstop2 ?
[16:16] <binali> Hello people! How are you?
[17:10] <excalibr> great!
[19:42] <Ab3L> where can i find new lightdm greeter themes? i would like to change the place and the look of the widget where you login and insert your password (and maybe also the look of the buttons)
[20:54] <gaby> hy
[21:24] <uBUXUBu> merry christmas kubuntu
[21:24] <uBUXUBu> i luvu
[21:25] <Erthe> Merry Christmas!
[21:49] <starcraft-ntbk> hi, just did a recent upgrade to 13.10. I've got a weird bug/feature. When I hover my cursor at the bottom, a blue line appears that seems to be a window or application. Right clicking doesn't reveal a menu, just that for task manager.
[21:49] <starcraft-ntbk> image -> http://imgur.com/TTPuAqr
[21:49] <starcraft-ntbk> Can someone tell me what this is?
[21:57] <starcraft-ntbk> ok, figured out it is a highlight for my screen edge triggers, can this be disabled?
[21:58] <starcraft-ntbk> The blue highlight, not the edges, I looked in edge menu doesn't appear to have highlight toggle.
[21:58] <Go|dfish_> God COMMANDS everyone TO REPENT
[22:54] <RiotingPacifist> Is there a GUI for polkit yet?
[22:57] <valorie> dunno, but I love your nick, RiotingPacifist
[22:57] <valorie> happy xmas
[23:00] <RiotingPacifist> valorie: thanks enjoy your christmas  too
[23:59] <jasonBCN> hit here
[23:59] <jasonBCN> any sweet girl to talk here :) ?


[16:08] <acid-bong[m]> Good evening, fellow Linuxoids. Would a Live USB version of Ubuntu Studio powerful enough for me to play guitar with FX and low latency? Or is it as powerful as the installed US and only my hardware matters?
[16:18] <Eickmeyer> acid-bong[m]: Depends on the hardware, to be honest. If you've got yourself a decent rig with a dedicated GPU and a professional audio interface then you should have no problem. Internal audio cards are notorious for latency.
[16:19] <acid-bong[m]> GPU, not CPU?
[16:21] <acid-bong[m]> i've already ordered a guitar and an interface, gotta bring them overmorrow
[16:23] <Eickmeyer> Yes, GPU. If you have a dedicated GPU it keeps the graphics process off of the CPU which lets the CPU handle audio with less overhead.
[16:27] <acid-bong[m]> i have Core i3-7100 and integrated Intel HD Graphics 😦
[16:29] <Eickmeyer> acid-bong[m]: Ok, if you're only handling one channel from a guitar, you should be fine. I'm used to handling 32+ channels in a live production environment and a dedicated GPU made all the difference to take the graphics load from the CPU.
[16:30] <Eickmeyer> Also, running from the USB does add to the CPU overhead which can interfere with low latency processes.
[16:30] <Eickmeyer> So, install to hard drive for best results.
[16:34] <acid-bong[m]> my goal genre is metal, so i won't handle more than (probably) 4-5 guitars + bass + 1 track of programmed drums [+ 1-2 synth tracks]
[16:35] <acid-bong[m]> i've tried some similar mixes, and my PC can handle such amount of tracks with 3-4 VSTs of effects on each
[16:36] <acid-bong[m]> FX monitoring is what worries me
[16:38] <acid-bong[m]> btw, how heavy can graphics be to bring additional load on a CPU? Reaper and Ardour don't look that graphic-heavy
[16:40] <Eickmeyer> acid-bong[m]: The goal is to reduce CPU overhead as much as possible with the GPU. The less CPU overhead, the lower your latency can be.
[16:40] <Eickmeyer> At least in theory.
[16:41] <Eickmeyer> You should be fine with what you've got, but I'd upgrade to at least an i5.
[16:42] <acid-bong[m]> it's a laptop 😫
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, you might consider upgrading your laptop if you don't get desired results. But, you'll never know until you try.
[16:43] <acid-bong[m]> i also have 4GB of RAM, which can also limit me (but again, 8 tracks with 4 plugins each is flawless for it)
[16:43] <Eickmeyer> Another resource for this is #opensourcemusicians:libera.chat or #lau:libera.chat (Linux Audio Users). Those channels are more active, and your questions aren't directly Ubuntu Studio support questions.
[16:44] <acid-bong[m]> got it, thx
[16:45] <acid-bong[m]> what about kernel and TPM conflict, where can i ask about it (except askubuntu)?
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> acid-bong[m]: Hmmmm... I don't know about that one. You could try #ubuntu:libera.chat, but you might not get an answer (meaning nobody knows).
[17:03] <Eickmeyer> Never run into that issue myself.
[17:03] <Eickmeyer> Newer kernels might have no trouble, meaning Ubuntu 21.04 and later.
[17:03] <Eickmeyer> But I'm just speculating.
[17:40] <acid-bong[m]> weird thing is in my case newer kernels don't load
[17:40] <acid-bong[m]> but that's not for here
[17:40] <acid-bong[m]> thx anyway
[19:09] <rgh> acid-bong: ardour can(could?) have some trouble when you have many regions (say 100+)
[19:09] <rgh> the UI might be slow to update then
[19:09] <rgh> however, with a properly configured system that should hardly inpact the audio performance
[19:10] <rgh> I've had ardour UI almost grind to a stop but the audio was happily playing
[19:10] <rgh> there are some settings you could flip to test graphics performance
[19:11] <rgh> most important are proper gfx drivers, in case of nvidia, use the (non-free) nvidia driver
[20:04] <OvenWerks> I have not had any trouble with the intel graphics chip in my i5 affecting lowlatency audio... each mother board is different though. The old amd gpu as part of the cpu were known to be problematic but I think everyone has learned that the gpu can't hog the memory bus for too long.


[00:31] <R0B_ROD> Can I just run grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg with my partition sd6 mounted and grun will find my other OS and make a boot entry or is there more?
[00:33] <R0B_ROD> although I dont see the grub menu by default with xubuntu
[01:06] <Jumpman> How do I make the xchat irc icon go away on the tray?
[01:09] <drc> Time to quit for the day...it's getting really lame in here.
[05:02] <martysia> hiya
[05:03] <martysia> my issue is: no network manager, no automatic wifi detection (it showed a prompt when system booted that there are networks available and I need to use the network manager to choose the network but there is no network manager)
[05:04] <martysia> and there is a problem because the logging off or switching off button in the system doesn't work
[05:04] <martysia> I need to witch my computer off using the button on the computer itself when I want to stop using Xubuntu
[05:25] <Unit193> martysia: Do you have network-manager and network-manager-gnome installed?  Is this a strange setup of Xubuntu?
[05:27] <martysia> where do I check that?
[05:27] <martysia> it's really messed up I think
[05:27] <martysia> because before I had Ubuntu
[05:27] <martysia> and since there were problems with it
[05:27] <martysia> I have installed a XFce on Ubuntu
[05:27] <martysia> but there were still some issues with that
[05:28] <martysia> so one guy on polish ubuntu channel
[05:28] <martysia> instructed me on how to install Xubuntu
[05:28] <martysia> instead of Ubuntu Xfce
[05:28] <martysia> on running system
[05:28] <martysia> using the command line
[05:28] <martysia> and then...
[05:28] <martysia> everything was fine
[05:29] <martysia> but then I changed the ISP
[05:29] <martysia> and now the network manager doens't work
[17:27] <ScottDallas> is there a good general linux chat?
[17:27] <knome> ##linux ?
[17:28]  * ScottDallas gives thumbs up emoji
[17:31] <ToeTag> #linuxdistrocommunity
[17:32] <ScottDallas> cool! thanks I'm checking that out too
[17:33] <ToeTag> no prob
[17:38] <xubuntu50w> hi, I'm new to Xubuntu as of yesterday, things are good except for my CD-DVD R&W.... it worked in Windows 7...?
[17:39] <ToeTag> xubuntu50w, when you insert a cd, what happens (if anything)
[17:39] <xubuntu50w> nothing..!
[17:40] <ToeTag> xubuntu50w, does any cd icon show up on your desktop?
[17:40] <xubuntu50w> no sir, it did, then it disapeared...
[17:40] <ToeTag> xubuntu50w, did you install from CD/DVD or usb?
[17:40] <xubuntu50w> usb
[17:41] <Cdrom> Hello guys I m having some troubles installing xubuntu dual booted with win 7.  I follow a guide on how to install win 7 first and then I got the basic knowledge on how to use gparted
[17:41] <ToeTag> when you re-insert a cd, does the drive appear to be mechanically working? any spinning inside, lights flashing outside?
[17:41] <Cdrom> But after I create the partitions gparted doesn't read the sda1 and 2 of Windows
[17:42] <Cdrom> Can anybody help me?
[17:42] <xubuntu50w> yes it seems to be..
[17:42] <ToeTag> Cdrom, can you put a link for the instructions you've been following, and tell me where you got stuck
[17:43] <ToeTag> xubuntu50w, when you re-insert the CD/DVD, does it show up for a moment on the desktop and then disappear or was that just the first time
[17:43] <xubuntu50w> ToeTag, I ran the inxi -Fx to create hardware list, its not listed in the printout..
[17:44] <xubuntu50w> https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first-xubuntu#TOC-Install-missing-drivers-and-firmware... didnt get stuck...
[17:45] <ToeTag> xubuntu50w, oh sorry i was referring to that other person that asked a question about the instructions she/he was using
[17:45] <mrkramps> xubuntu50w, can you show us after inserting the cd the output of 'dmesg | tail' in a pastebin
[17:45] <Cdrom> Yes I got stuck at the end of partition creations
[17:45] <Cdrom> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/dual-boot-windows-7-xubuntu.html
[17:46] <xubuntu50w> hang on a sec..
[17:47] <ToeTag> Cdrom, do you already have windows installed?
[17:47] <Cdrom> As I was saying gparted has problems reading devsda1 and 2
[17:47] <Cdrom> Yes I have
[17:47] <Cdrom> I just reinstalled it after format
[17:48] <martysia> why does the network manager not detecting the wifi's available?
[17:48] <martysia> do I always need to ad my wifi manually?
[17:48] <ToeTag> Cdrom, great. Okay one important part of this article he leaves out is that he already 'made space' for the linux install - do you know if your hard disk has some 'unallocated' space for the linux install?
[17:49] <Cdrom> Yes it has....  256, 78 gbs
[17:49] <xubuntu50w> got a screen from Parole Media Player, also error: GStreamer backend error-"Could not initialise Xv output....."
[17:49] <ToeTag> Cdrom, great- what happens when you open gparted
[17:50] <Cdrom> It happens that it reads devsda1 with 100 mb,  system required, boot
[17:50] <ToeTag> Cdrom, not other partitions are shown under "partition" column?
[17:50] <Cdrom> And devsda2 with a space of 2xx gb plus unallocated of 256
[17:51] <Cdrom> Yes sorry I wrote it in 2 times
[17:51] <ToeTag> Cdrom, it sounds like you should be fine to install your linux onto /dev/sda2
 you here..?
[17:52] <mrkramps> xubuntu50w, yes
[17:52] <Cdrom> Mmmm the problem is that when gparted finishes creating the partitions a lot of errors occur
[17:53] <Cdrom> And appears a red simple near the two first partitions
[17:53] <ToeTag> Cdrom, I can probably find you some better instructions than this article. Have you done a linux install before?
[17:53] <Cdrom> On ether thing when I boot xubuntu CD it appears :ACC probe, failed
[17:53] <Cdrom> No,  first time for me
  got a screen from Parole Media Player, also error: GStreamer backend error-"Could not initialise Xv output....."
[17:54] <ToeTag> Cdrom, okay so if something goes wrong here, will you be able to re-install windows?
[17:54] <Cdrom> Yes
[17:54] <ToeTag> okay great, so, you just might need a few tries, but once you get it, it will make so much more sense
[17:54] <ToeTag> let me try to find you some more simple instructions that will be a little cleaner
[17:55] <Cdrom> Thank you very much
[17:55] <ToeTag> Cdrom, do you know how to resize partitions inside of windows?
[17:55] <ToeTag> have you done it before
[17:55] <Cdrom> Yes I do
[17:55] <mrkramps> xubuntu50w, i never ask for screen or parole media player
[17:55] <mrkramps> *asked
[17:56] <xubuntu50w> I'm new to Xubuntu as of yesterday, I had Ubuntu, DVD didnt work in it wither
[17:56] <xubuntu50w> sorry, *either
[17:56] <mrkramps> and i never asked for the story of your life
[17:57] <Cdrom> Yes toetqg
[17:57] <Cdrom> Toetag
[17:57] <mrkramps> just show us the output of 'dmesg | tail' after inserting a cd/dvd
[17:57] <ToeTag> Cdrom, in the interest of time/learning - I would try to *install* xubuntu right now (don't worry about using gparted)
[17:57] <Cdrom> Ok
[17:57] <ToeTag> Cdrom, so this would mean: reboot, and then ask questions if you run into any on the installer
[17:58] <Cdrom> I just did
[17:58] <Cdrom> Ok
[17:58] <xubuntu50w> james@james-GA-A75M-UD2H:~$ dmesg | tail [ 2768.316515] [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=01:00:5e:00:00:01:08:2e:5f:8a:fb:fd:08:00 SRC=<IP_ADDRESS> DST=<IP_ADDRESS> LEN=28 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=1 ID=0 DF PROTO=2  [ 2809.530130] [UFW BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=33:33:00:00:00:01:00:0c:42:07:71:37:86:dd SRC=fe80:0000:0000:0000:020c:42ff:fe07:7137 DST=ff02:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001 LEN=177 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=1 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=UDP SPT=5678
[17:58] <Cdrom> Another thing
[17:59] <Cdrom> I don't find gparted in system,  admin etc I find it by typing in terminal sudo g parted
[17:59] <ToeTag> Cdrom, are you booted into the live cd?
[17:59] <Cdrom> Yes
[18:00] <ToeTag> Cdrom, yeah, it's in the menu, I think it's under 'settings' which is kind of confusing since it is an application
[18:00] <Cdrom> Ok
[18:00] <ToeTag> hopefully you won't need to use gparted
[18:00] <ToeTag> the installer has its own partitioning tool
[18:01] <ToeTag> and if you have free space on the hard disk, and windows is bootable, you should be fine
[18:01] <Cdrom> So direct install instead of gparted?
[18:01] <ToeTag> Cdrom, yes
[18:02] <ToeTag> but during the install be on the lookout for the step where it asks how to do the install
[18:02] <ToeTag> it will give you some options
[18:02] <ToeTag> like "replace current operating system"
[18:02] <ToeTag> "install alongside...."
[18:02] <ToeTag> etc
[18:02] <ToeTag> you'll want to install alongside
[18:03] <Cdrom> Ok it s still charging I tell you asap
[18:03] <Cdrom> Ok i selected it and go for it
[18:04] <ToeTag> okay if this doesn't work I found you some better instructions too
[18:05] <Cdrom> Ok just wrote name,  pc. Name etc I ll let you know asap
[18:05] <ToeTag> Cdrom, I know this is a pain to deal with if you are new to it - but once you get the hang of it - all of this resizing, partitioning, MBR/GPT, formatting stuff gets a lot easier
[18:05] <ToeTag> and you'll get a lot more comfortable doing installs and such
[18:06] <ScottDallas> it messes with my brain seeing people talking to Cdrom, I picture the hardware
[18:06] <Cdrom> Ok
[18:07] <ScottDallas> and yes, I second what ToeTag says
[18:07] <ToeTag> it was just completely mysterious to me when i first installed linux
[18:07] <ToeTag> i don't know if ubuntu still provides wubi
[18:07] <ScottDallas> is wubi a boot manager?
[18:07] <ToeTag> it was this utility that you could just run inside of windows and it would do everything for you
[18:07] <ScottDallas> ooooh
[18:07] <ToeTag> it would do all the partitioning, install, mbr stuf
[18:08] <ToeTag> stuff*
[18:08] <ToeTag> yeah it was a nice entry point for real newcomers
[18:08] <ScottDallas> I like doing it manually, being in control so I know exactly what file space to expect
[18:08] <ScottDallas> that makes sense though
[18:08] <ScottDallas> I've always felt, give linux less than Windows cause Linux can see Windows but not the other way around
[18:09] <ToeTag> Yeah these days I'm mosly using VMs (using a mac due to software needs) but I would do the same
[18:09] <Cdrom> Installer crashed
[18:09] <ToeTag> cdrom did you get any error message?
[18:10] <ScottDallas> Mac does vmware the best! You rockin fusion?  I'd rather only use Xubuntu natively but for music stuff I need the mac so this is 2nd best
[18:11] <Cdrom> I did not specified any error but at the end of the report it says it may refer to the disk where I m installing to
[18:12] <Cdrom> It*
[18:12] <ToeTag> Cdrom,
[18:12] <ToeTag> okay - no worries
[18:12] <ToeTag> it may take a few tries
[18:12] <ToeTag> It might be good to re-install windows from scratch
[18:12] <ToeTag> and use *the whole* hard disk
[18:13] <ScottDallas> negative (imho)
[18:13] <ScottDallas> The windows install is a great place to prep your disk for a second OS
[18:13] <Cdrom> Mmmm yes I already did it
[18:13] <ToeTag> he's already been inside of gparted and I have no idea what got changed
[18:13] <Cdrom> I followed that guideline
[18:13] <ToeTag> or what condition the partitions are in
[18:14] <ScottDallas> That is odd, makes me think you have hardware that just isn't happy about xubuntu... Sometimes I spend a lot of time downloading linux OS' to discover what works on my particular hardware
[18:14] <Cdrom> Mmmmm anyway did you miss the part when I told you it says probe failed at the boot?  Or is it just a minor thing?
[18:14] <ScottDallas> I've had good luck with xubuntu, fedora, and opensuse
[18:14] <ToeTag> Cdrom, I did not see that
[18:14] <ToeTag> could also be significant
[18:15] <Cdrom> Yeah Scott I m trying xubuntu because I have to change my actual PC
[18:15] <Cdrom> And I t can t run a good version of Ubuntu
[18:15] <ToeTag> Cdrom, i would direct you to http://linux.about.com/od/LinuxNewbieDesktopGuide/ss/The-Ultimate-Windows-7-And-Ubuntu-Linux-Dual-Boot-Guide.htm#showall
[18:15] <ToeTag> you can ignore things like backing up windows (since you have a fresh install anyways)
[18:16] <ToeTag> but the idea is that you shouldn't have to use gparted in the process
[18:16] <ToeTag> in my opinion, using it will just be more new stuff to learn and more confusing at this point
[18:16] <ToeTag> Cdrom, another potential hang up is that sometimes downloads can get corrupted
[18:17] <Cdrom> Mmm ok,  but I spent some hours learning and I should be fine with that
[18:17] <ToeTag> so, if in this process you can't get things to work, it's worth verifying your xubuntu iso
[18:17] <ToeTag> (which is another thing to learn about)
[18:17] <Cdrom> I verified it when I downloaded
[18:17] <ToeTag> other than that, all of the instructions that you will need should be in that article
[18:18] <ToeTag> oh okay cool md5?
[18:18] <Cdrom> Ok
[18:18] <ToeTag> and that article is for ubuntu, but they use the same installer as xubuntu it will look almost identical
[18:19] <Cdrom> Ok i ll try to use it
[18:21] <Cdrom> Thank you very much for all informations,  dinner time for me,  I ll let you know,  bye.
[18:21] <ToeTag> take care
[18:22] <xubuntu50w> still here waiting..?
[18:23] <ToeTag> xubuntu50w, did you put in a blank cd?
[18:23] <ToeTag> or something like an audio cd?
[18:24] <xubuntu50w> tried audio, now trying DVD movie
[18:25] <mrkramps> xubuntu50w, have you installed all codecs?
[18:25] <xubuntu50w> got no idea..?
[18:25] <mrkramps> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-addons
[18:26] <mrkramps> sudo apt-get install libdvdread4
[18:26] <mrkramps> sudo sh /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
[18:26] <ToeTag> yeah, and i would also just do $ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-*
[18:27] <ToeTag> then then reboot and try again
[18:27] <ToeTag> i don't know if your install instructions got to the point of updating the new system yet
[18:28] <xubuntu50w> I did 1 @ at time, very slowly with all 10...thats all I know...
[18:28] <xubuntu50w> Y
[18:29] <xubuntu50w> got to reboot now...
[18:29] <ToeTag> yep
[18:29] <ScottDallas> is he having trouble with video/audio codecs?
[18:30] <mrkramps> ScottDallas, he originally asked because of issues with his cd/dvd drive
[18:30] <ToeTag> yeah that's a strange problem to troubleshoot - he said cds were showing up on his desktop briefly and then disappearing
[18:31] <ToeTag> I've never experienced anything like that that wasn't hardware related
[18:31] <mrkramps> probably his drive's just broken
[18:31] <mrkramps> dunno how old his pc is
[18:32] <ToeTag> right
[18:34] <ScottDallas> reminds me of the usb cd rom drive i wanna buy on amazon, was checking driver support, haven't bouht it yet.. but if it always worked, then the internal hardware would be irrelevant until after it has been spoken for by the user
[18:35] <ToeTag> I've been really lucky - haven't ever had any nasty surprise unsupported devices on linux
[18:35] <ScottDallas> that's incredibly lucky, not even wifi?
[18:36] <ToeTag> I have a little TP-Link usb wifi antenna that i got for kali linux and it works fine on linux but no support on my mac :D
[18:37] <ScottDallas> kali! i almost forgot how well kali worked on my acer aspire one
[18:37] <ScottDallas> THAT'S what i should do with my acer aspire one
[18:38] <ToeTag> yeah. I'll tell you...kali linux was one of the snappiest distros I ever installed on a lenovo netbook i had
[18:38] <ToeTag> I don't know how....but I swear it ran faster than debian with xfce
[18:38] <mrkramps> hrhrhr
[18:38] <mrkramps> NEVER!
[18:38] <ToeTag> and the kali was a regular gnome-classic type desktop
[18:38] <ScottDallas> wow you went lenovo with it! That's my favorite brand. Other than my stellar home build desktop, I'm all lenovo/thinkpad
[18:38] <ToeTag> super mysterious but it was awesome
[18:39] <ToeTag> yeah netbooks were the best
[18:39] <ToeTag> i'm so sad they are on the way out
[18:39] <mrkramps> ToeTag, would you mind telling me the chipset of your tp-link stick?
[18:39] <ScottDallas> I admittedly tried Kali because I have the alfa network card and I was dating this girl that lived in the boonies and couldn't get cell or internet signal so I used Kali to monitor network in her area and see if we could use airng to crack a WEP. The results were negative lol
[18:39] <ScottDallas> But still, I could see so far away it was awesome compared to what Win XP could see
[18:41] <ToeTag> sure thing mrkramps let me get it - it works REALLY well and was super cheap
[18:41] <ToeTag> yeah ScottDallas those things are a trip
[18:42] <ToeTag> mrkramps, I believe it's Atheros AR9002U
[18:44] <mrkramps> thanks
[18:49] <ToeTag> no problem - pretty cheap, small, works great
[18:51] <martysia> hello, my Xubuntu doesn't close itself when choosing the log -off or shut-down option on the system
[18:52] <martysia> I need to close the computer using the button on it
[18:52] <martysia> any ideas what to do?
[18:52] <ToeTag> martysia, what happens when you choose shut down from the menu?
[18:53] <martysia> nothing
[18:53] <martysia> happens
[18:53] <martysia> but when I try to do it again...
[18:53] <martysia> the error message pops up
[18:54] <martysia> and says that it is still running and busy
[18:54] <ToeTag> martysia, is this a new install?
[18:54] <martysia> nopes
[18:54] <martysia> not that new
[18:54] <ToeTag> does it say *what* is running/busy?
[18:54] <martysia> I have installed it maybe 3 months ago
[18:56] <martysia> ok, the logging off option worked now
[18:56] <martysia> I will try to shut down
[19:00] <martysia> wow, unbelievable, it works now
[19:01] <ToeTag> martysia, just for general troubleshooting if I get errors i like to make sure the system is updated/rebooted
[19:01] <ToeTag> and i've had little strange things like that pop up that seemed to be taken care of with a logoff/logon or a reboot
[19:02] <martysia> yeah, but I've tried shutting it down many times and it always didn't work
[19:02] <martysia> but this time I have logged off first
[19:02] <ToeTag> weird
[19:02] <martysia> and
[19:02] <martysia> I have fixed my internet connection (the network manager) before that
[19:02] <martysia> so could that be the reason?
[19:03] <martysia> people from #ubuntu-pl helped me
[19:03] <ToeTag> well, it sounded like some process was hanging
[19:03] <ToeTag> could be
 You busy..?
[22:19] <joey_> how do you uninstall flash
[22:19] <joey_> in firefox
[22:21] <Unit193> You puuuurge the paaaackage.