[01:40] <amu> hmm live@ppc powerbook4 has trouble with german keybord, in xorg it is a pc104 and US
[01:41] <pitti> amu: known bug, for me too
[01:41] <dholbach> seb128: uploading rebuilt gnomeicu
[01:42] <seb128> k
[01:42] <mvo> hi dholbach
[01:42] <amu> pitti: `k
[01:42] <dholbach> hi mvo! :-)
[01:43] <pitti> amu: #7138
[01:47] <pitti> argh
[01:47] <pitti> warty->hoary upgrade asks conffile question about /etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh
[01:48] <Treenaks> pitti: it asks a LOT of conffile questions.. didn't write them down, but I upgraded a clean warty (CD) install to hoary the other day
[01:48] <Treenaks> and I had to answer 4-5 conffile questions
[01:48] <Treenaks> (clean = un-security-patched, pure CD-install)
[01:48] <pitti> same for me
[01:49] <pitti> mdz: is there a meta-bug for upgrading warty->hoary, similar to #1436?
[01:49] <pitti> mdz: I'd like to make it depend on particular bugs like #4973
[01:49] <mdz> pitti: no, but feel free to create one
[01:49] <pitti> ok
[01:50] <pitti> mdz: do you agree that we should fix dpkg question bugs by the final? #4973 is "normal" right now, but I'd like to upgrade their severity
[01:51] <fabbione> mdz: if i understood right, 25.2 was a mistake and enable_libata-2 should be readded, right?
[01:52] <mdz> fabbione: 25.2 was not a mistake, but yes, we should readd that
[01:52] <fabbione> mdz: yeah i mean.. the report of the problem was a mistake
[01:53] <Keybuk> When mentioning dpkg-related bugs, _please_ specify whether it's a Debian# or Ubuntu#
[01:54] <Keybuk> there are dpkg bugs in the Debian BTS < 4973 :p
[02:03] <jdub__> http://www.iceni.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi//2005/03/08#05-03-07-1
[02:03] <jdub__> ^ automated testing interest
[02:03] <jdub__> no real detail
[02:04] <jdub__> but interesting insight into what their tools test
[02:06] <low> ok, lilo and grub chokes at install if /boot is xfs
[02:07] <low> mdz, another problem is, i can't open gnome menus on top on the screen
[02:07] <sabdfl> congrats everybody
[02:08] <dholbach> WOOHOO!
[02:08] <sabdfl> thanks espcially to kamion, mdz, elmo, fabbione for getting us through the kernel krunch
[02:08] <sabdfl>  < no reference to kde whatsoever >
[02:08] <Kamion> low: xfs /boot and grub> yeah, long-known bug, never been successfully diagnosed
[02:08] <Kamion> there is a warning in place I believe
[02:09] <Treenaks> hey, no final name for hoary+1 in the announcement :P
[02:09] <Riddell> sabdfl :)
[02:09] <mpt_london> eep
[02:09] <low> Kamion, yep. i even know why it breaks (long time xfs user): 1st partition sector can't be used for lilo or grub when xfs is used
[02:09] <low> you must use MBR
[02:09] <mpt_london> Someone, please, s/The correct CD for/For/g :-)
[02:10] <HiddenWolf> kamion: the warning is there, yeah
[02:10] <low> Kamion, anyway i don't know why grub and lilo grumble when i ask them to use mbr
[02:10] <Kamion> mpt_london: where what?
[02:10] <sabdfl> mpt_london: where does that show up?
[02:10] <magnon> congrats to everyone :)
[02:10] <Kamion> oh
[02:10] <Kamion> ok, will change
[02:10] <mdz> sabdfl: the CD image index
[02:10] <mpt_london> Kamion, sabdfl: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/
[02:10] <Kamion> that was mako text I think
[02:10] <sabdfl> Treenaks: erm. good point
[02:11] <sabdfl> ah, good catch mpt_london
[02:11] <Kamion> mpt_london: done
[02:11] <mpt_london> yay
[02:11] <mpt_london> Either that, or add various "The incorrect CD for" sections around the place
[02:12] <mpt_london> just to keep people on their toes
[02:12] <Kamion> low: we *don't* use the first partition sector; we *do* use the MBR
[02:12] <Kamion> low: it's not that simple
[02:12] <Kamion> heh
[02:12] <fabbione> mdz: do i have green light to upload kernel-wedge? ;)
[02:13] <koke> hmm, gnome-btdownload is nice, testing with hoary-preview :)
[02:13] <low> Kamion, i'm using lilo for ages w/ xfs on mbr, it never annoyed me
[02:13] <lifeless> Kamion: can I ask a favour ?
[02:13] <Kamion> lifeless: sure
[02:13] <Kamion> you can ask ;-)
[02:14] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[02:14] <lifeless> Kamion: when elmo srufaces, or thom, There was a request I asked elmo to do - that he did - that seems not-quite-right.
[02:14] <mdz> pitti: OK to upload langpacks, security updates, hpoj, cupsys, etc.
[02:14] <jdub> seb128: want version diffs now? ;-) ;-)
[02:14] <lifeless> Kamion: the request was gnupg & libgpgme-dev in the bazaar build chroots
[02:14] <lifeless> Kamion: I suspect only the former happened, because I phrased the second as 'and shortly willalso need' ;/
[02:14] <Kamion> lifeless: thom should be around ...
[02:15] <Kamion> but if not I can pass it on
[02:15] <lifeless> Kamion: I'm crashing to sleep though, so can't do the buzzy fly thing - so if you can channel me, for that, with promises of a lovely JustWork gpg interface as soon as I can build the debs ..
[02:15] <Kamion> lifeless: 'k
[02:15] <lifeless> I'd really appreciate that.
[02:15] <lifeless> thanks!
[02:15] <lifeless> gnight
[02:18] <thom> *grumble*
[02:18] <Kamion> thom: request from lifeless:
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: when elmo srufaces, or thom, There was a request I asked elmo to do - that he did - that seems not-quite-right.
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: the request was gnupg & libgpgme-dev in the bazaar build chroots
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: I suspect only the former happened, because I phrased the second as 'and shortly willalso need' ;/
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:15 < lifeless> Kamion: I'm crashing to sleep though, so can't do the buzzy fly thing - so if you can channel me, for that, with promises of a lovely JustWork gpg interface as soon as I can build the debs ..
[02:19] <Kamion> low: doing a test run now
[02:20] <low> Kamion, thx
[02:20] <pitti> mdz: cool, I'll do. preview stuff is settled now?
[02:20] <Kamion> pitti: preview's done and dusted
[02:20] <pitti> mdz: "langpacks" -> shall I do new base langpacks and empty updates, or shall we wait for a bug fix?
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: all my install and live tests were okay, upgrading is a mess
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: but it's too late to fix this for preview anyway :-)
[02:21] <seb128> jdub: yep
[02:21] <jdub> seb128: glutton for punishment :)|
[02:21] <seb128> jdub: probably gnomemeeting and gdm
[02:21] <Kamion> jdub: that was sivang I think
[02:21] <mdz> pitti: new base, please
[02:21] <mdz> pitti: this is urgent
[02:21] <pitti> okay
[02:22] <pitti> mdz: we need to trick away elmo again :-)
[02:22] <Mithrandir> mdz: is the preview freeze lifted now? :)
[02:22] <Kamion> "with vorbis playback and Python 2.4 ready out of the box" is not great grammar, but hey
[02:22] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[02:22] <mdz> but please don't do anything crazy yet :-)
[02:22] <ogra> hehe
[02:22] <Mithrandir> utf8-migration-tool ok in a couple of hours?
[02:22] <HiddenWolf> kamion: who knows, if patents in the eu get shot down... ;)
[02:23] <mdz> sabdfl: we're the top story on distrowatch
[02:23] <mdz> they are so fast
[02:23] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: what was that in reply to?
[02:23] <fabbione> mdz: do you still have superpower to process NEW?
[02:23] <mdz> fabbione: yes, but only if it's urgent
[02:23] <fabbione> ok nothing urgent
[02:23] <dholbach> whoever put the community in the previewrelease draft: good thinking, thank you!
[02:23] <HiddenWolf> kamion: the vorbis playback: if patents get shot, it's one hurdle out of the way to add mp3/dvd playback
[02:23] <mdz> Mithrandir: utf8-migration-tool is fine now; it isn't installed by default or anything
[02:24] <Mithrandir> mdz: it needs some more polishing for those people who want to upgrade from C locales.  Should be easy enough now that I've decided how to handle it.
[02:24] <mdz> pushing 8mbit on the torrent
[02:24] <jdub> dholbach: dude, that's the best bit :-)
[02:24] <dholbach> jdub: YEAH :-)
[02:25] <Burgundavia> already on distrowatch
[02:25] <Treenaks> OK, who submits to slashdot?
[02:25] <jordi> sabdfl: did you see planet.d.o?
[02:26] <jdub> Mithrandir: ;)
[02:26] <HiddenWolf> hm, distrowatch isn't mentioning ubuntu for me
[02:26] <dholbach> jdub: uploaded rebuilt gnome-phone-manager
[02:26] <jdub> Treenaks: do it anyway, best entry wins ;)
[02:26] <jdub> dholbach: sweet!
[02:26] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: EU patents haven't been legally valid up to now and that hasn't stopped it being a problem
[02:27] <HiddenWolf> kamion: it'll take the threat out of the air for 400 million people.
[02:27] <mdz> HiddenWolf: reload
[02:27] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: top of the page
[02:27] <HiddenWolf> mdz: 2005-03-10  	Distribution Release: Kurumin Linux 4.1
[02:27] <tseng> its definately ubuntu
[02:27] <tseng> you are caching or something.
[02:28] <tseng> shift+reload could be helpful.
[02:28] <jdub> gee DW are fast
[02:28] <Burgundavia> mdz: do we have stats about how many people are hittings the repos, etc?
[02:28] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: however that's anything but the direction in which things are going, unfortunately
[02:28] <Treenaks> jdub: maybe they're reading the channel?
[02:29] <mdz> Burgundavia: I don't
[02:29] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: in any case I was complaining about the grammar, not the content :)
[02:29] <Burgundavia> he is probably subscribed to the announce lists of ever distro
[02:29] <dholbach> can anybody help me with this one: "dh_shlibdeps -pgnome-bluetooth -> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libgnomebt.so.0"   --  although debian/libgnomebt0.shlibs seems ok
[02:29] <HiddenWolf> mdz: i've been reloading a lot, but it still won't refresh
[02:30] <thom> ubuntu is top for me (on distrowatch, but ... ;-) )
[02:30] <mdz> HiddenWolf: I have no more clues for you; it's correct for everyone else
[02:30] <jdub> hrm, one thing missing from the preview announce i didn't think of before: there's no clear, strong indication that this intended for and regarded as safe for testing
[02:30] <mdz> jdub: too late
[02:30] <Burgundavia> I think the word preview might be a clue
[02:31] <jdub> mdz: obviously.
[02:31] <mdz> the fact that we're sending it to ubuntu-announce is a clue for those folks
[02:31] <Burgundavia> hey you planet.ubuntu folks, push the blogs out
[02:32] <jdub> mdz: we make it very explicit in gnome release announcements because people, on the whole, don't infer it.
[02:32] <Kamion> mdz: #7424 is a good idea from Kinnison that might have allowed us to dodge some of the bullets this time round
[02:32] <mdz> mvo: someone posted to -devel saying that update-notifier tried to upgrade from a live CD again; I thought that was fixed
[02:33] <mdz> Kamion: sure, we could do that
[02:33] <mdz> and perhaps some knoppix-style options as well
[02:33] <mvo> mdz: I didn't wanted to upload before preview
[02:34] <mdz> mvo: I thought it was fixed weeks ago, but I guess I'm mistaken
[02:34] <mdz> mvo: anyway, feel free to upload now :-)
[02:34] <Kamion> parsing non-debconfy boot options is annoyingly fiddly, but could be done
[02:34] <HiddenWolf> hm: it seems distrowatch.com is updated / distrowatch.cz is not
[02:34] <mvo> mdz: what is upload policy now? can we upload carefully selected bugfixes?
[02:35] <mdz> mvo: for things which are part of desktop, be careful
[02:35] <mvo> mdz: I thought it was fixed, but one or two days before preview noticted that it wasn't :/
[02:35] <mdz> for other things, general bugfixes are OK
[02:35] <mvo> mdz: I have fixes for update-manager, synaptic, python-apt and update-notifier ready that I would like to upload in the new couple of days
[02:36] <mdz> mvo: synaptic -> including libgnome2-perl?
[02:37] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: at least 1, my step mom
[02:37] <Kamion> XFS on lilo works fine for me, so I don't know what low was talking about
[02:38] <HiddenWolf> burgundavia: my mother will start on hoary+1: provided gnome tackles the resources
[02:38] <mvo> mdz: I can add this dependency, yes. and small fixes like a slower progressbar pulse, a potenial file-descriptor leak and stuff like this, pretty low impact
[02:38] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: my father is hoary+1
[02:38] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: or 2 or 3 or 10
[02:38] <mvo> mdz: update-manager/python-apt is a bit bigger, I added support to read the apt pinfile
[02:38] <mvo> mdz: but it does not touch exisiting code in python-apt and should generally be safe
[02:39] <HiddenWolf> my father sells windows software, won't ever get him to switch
[02:40] <lamont> morning
[02:40] <pitti> Hi lamont
[02:40] <dholbach> hey lamont
[02:40] <fabbione> ah lamont
[02:40] <mdz> madduck: yes, it is
[02:40] <madduck> thanks.
[02:40] <mdz> madduck: cf. #kubuntu and #kubuntu-devel
[02:40] <fabbione> lamont: i just commited the "Kill the patch madness"
[02:41] <madduck> mdz: that's pretty amazing. so you guys want to continue a 6 month release cycle with 15'000+ packages?
[02:41] <fabbione> lamont: if you want to give it an overall check.. it works on amd64.. waiting i38 to finish the build
[02:41] <mdz> madduck: yes.  not all 15,000 packages are officially supported, though.
[02:41] <madduck> mako: do i have to sign up for more CDs again, or will i be sent the same shipment as before?
[02:42] <madduck> mdz: mh, maybe this should be made more explicit in such announcements... but that's just a detail.
[02:43] <mdz> madduck: we still consider these packages to be part of Ubuntu, though they receive less QA
[02:43] <tarzeau> madduck: now
[02:43] <jdub> so, the gnome livecd is kinda funny
[02:43] <madduck> tarzeau: what's going on?
[02:43] <jdub> luis removed a huge stack of stuff to have more space (and smaller cd)
[02:43] <mdz> jdub: which daily is it based on?
[02:44] <jdub> including vim, nano, ... ;-)
[02:44] <jdub> mdz: few days back, i'll double check
[02:44] <tarzeau> madduck: i was curious about your question and the answers to it
[02:44] <madduck> mdz: some people did not read that from your email. i just had two in my office who were all in rage telling me that ubuntu now goes full way.
[02:44] <madduck> oh. want scrollback?
[02:44] <mdz> jdub: depending on which kernel he got, it might be a good idea to roll a preview-based one
[02:44] <madduck> tarzeau: http://rafb.net/paste/results/3g5sR434.txt
[02:44] <Goshawk> what will be happen to GNU/linux ubuntu is the software patents in Europe will be accepted?
[02:45] <madduck> we will become an underground organisation
[02:45] <pitti> mdz: warty->hoary upgrade finished; a bit rough and there are no langpacks installed, but it works in principle
[02:45] <Goshawk> madduck, what???
[02:45] <Goshawk> or better how?
[02:45] <pitti> mdz: I collected all issues in #7416
[02:45] <madduck> Goshawk: who knows...
[02:45] <mvo> we'll move development into a space station
[02:45] <mdz> Goshawk: madduck is joking with you
[02:45] <dholbach> mvo: oh rocking, sabdfl wll love that
[02:46] <dredg> Goshawk: that really remains to be seen. i'll let you know when I take out McCreevy.. he only lives a few miles away
[02:46] <madduck> mdz: unless push comes to shove and we will actually have to do something like that... :/
[02:46] <pitti> mdz: oh, and the locale is still ISO
[02:46] <madduck> Goshawk: but yeah, i am joking... somewhat.
[02:46] <lamont> it's not nice to upgrade all the libs and not restart things, you see..
[02:46] <Goshawk> dredg, but have you thought only one time to what will happen?
[02:47] <jdub> Goshawk: it will just mean more places that won't be able to use stuff, and we'd continue to be careful
[02:47] <mdz> pitti: utf8-migration-tool will handle that (right, Mithrandir?)
[02:47] <pitti> mdz: locales are generated at langpack installation, but the default in /etc/environment must be changed
[02:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: u8mg will change the locale and convert file names.
[02:47] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^is that done?
[02:47] <pitti> ah, cool
[02:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: it doesn't touch /etc/environment, no.
[02:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: uh, how does it change the default locale then?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> changes .dmrc
[02:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: so console will still have ISO?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> yes
[02:49] <Mithrandir> the real fix is for pam_env to have per-user enviroment files
[02:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: uh, that means u8mg is per-user, not system-wide?
[02:49] <Mithrandir> pitti: correct.
[02:49] <Mithrandir> u8mt, actually
[02:50] <pitti> er, yes
[02:50] <tarzeau> mvo: on the sea would be easier, no?
[02:50] <mdz> gah, everyone is replying to me with pre-preview tests now
[02:51] <mdz> and off-list
[02:51] <mvo> tarzeau: sure, but less fun :p
[02:51] <ogra> tarzeau: but less cool
[02:51] <mdz> Kamion: you're going to be awake for a while, right?
[02:51] <mdz> I think I'm going to sleep some
[02:52] <dholbach> mdz: good night
[02:52] <mvo> night mdz
[02:52] <ogra> night mdz
[02:52] <jdub> gute nacht
[02:52] <mdz> call my mobile if the world is ending
[02:52] <mdz> night folks
[02:52] <pitti> night mdz
[02:52] <tarzeau> ogra, mvo i wouldn't want to live in a fartstinking, hard to get fresh air space station
[02:53] <tarzeau> but certainly you can put me on a ship or island with internet
[02:53] <seb128> 'night mdz
[02:54] <thom> night mdz
[02:56] <ogra> tarzeau: but "the distro from outer space" would make a nice advert :)
[02:58] <tarzeau> distro from northpole would be nice too, wouldn't it?
[02:58] <tarzeau> especially when you shipped it on 24th dec
[02:58] <ogra> heh
[02:59] <ogra> pitti: did you send heise a note ?
[02:59] <pitti> ogra: no, not yet
[02:59] <pitti> ogra: I'm still waiting for the next catastrophy which blocks the preview another day
[03:00] <pitti> ogra: no, seriously, didn't find the time to do so
[03:00] <ogra> pitti: much to late now
[03:00] <ogra> (for blocking)
[03:00] <pitti> ogra: all my machines were tested successfully. worksforme -> out with it :-)
[03:01] <ogra> nearly the same here...beside one bug in the detetion of my widescreen display
[03:16] <jdub> Riddell: http://dot.kde.org/1110426963/
[03:16] <jdub> Riddell: see that?
[03:16] <Riddell> jdub: of course, I approved it
[03:17] <Riddell> jdub: I've spoken to them about doing a kubuntu-amarok in future
[03:17] <daniels> svenl: i'm uncomfortable with the hack, and i do not have the time to port the radeon driver.  i don't appreciate being given ultimatums, either.  if you want to actually provide a full patch, please do that, and i'll look at it.  if you want to fix the pcigart fallback, even better.  but please realise that I have even less time than you do (I'm in the middle of moving right now, as well as Hoary), so really, telling me to do one or the othe
[03:17] <jdub> Riddell: tops.
[03:17] <daniels> mdz: is xserver even a virtual package at all?
[03:17] <svenl> daniels: hey, don't take it badly, it was not meant so.
[03:17] <daniels> mdz: i suppose the main value comes in that external modules can depend on xserver-xorg if they're compiled, although the value of a debugging server when you're loading external modules is severely decreased
[03:18] <svenl> daniels: you said you would add the bustype thing first, and then continue telling me you don't like the hack :/
[03:18] <daniels> svenl: i said i'd think about it.
[03:18] <svenl> daniels: why you dislike it so much ? And what do you think i can propose apart from the full pcigart fallback patch that would be acceptable to you ?
[03:19] <daniels> svenl: because it's an ugly hack, dude.  you do realise that there is absolutely no precedent for testing for a specific machine type and adding device-specific options?
[03:19] <daniels> svenl: no-one's done this before, because it's really, really ugly.
[03:20] <zul> there thats better...hey
[03:21] <jdub> Riddell: amarok-gstreamer is in universe - intended?
[03:22] <svenl> daniels: ok, but you suggest no alternative ? It is not my fault that pcigart fallback has been broken in X.org for ages.
[03:22] <svenl> daniels: what do you think as alternative to have mentioned in the release notes that it should be added by hand ? It will not break X, just DRI accel.
[03:22] <daniels> svenl: it's not my fault, either.  i'm saying that I don't like an incredibly nasty hack that no-one has ever done before, and I don't have the time to integrate the full fix.
[03:23] <daniels> svenl: 'DRI is broken on Pegaos machines and whatever crazy Intel machines that provide AGP slots that aren't AGP slots.  We know.  It will probably get fixed in Bendy or something.'
[03:23] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I'll be up for ages
[03:23] <daniels> svenl: dri not working is just so far down on my list of things that I consider bugs that it's not funny
[03:23] <svenl> daniels: what about checking that there is no agpgart for a given hardware and setting bustype pci then ?
[03:24] <daniels> svenl: given that my bug list is currently filled with 'does not work' 'hangs my machine' 'crashes and then leaves my keyboard in an unusable state'
[03:24] <daniels> not 'can't watch glxgears whizzing around'
[03:24] <daniels> svenl: err ... how do you propose to do that?
[03:24] <svenl> daniels: the current drivers will disable dri for whatever motherboard (including x86) which has no agpgart.
[03:24] <daniels> right
[03:24] <daniels> i don't think this is the worst problem ever
[03:25] <svenl> altough pcigart will work in these case.
[03:25] <daniels> given we don't have anything to set up pcie garts, and regressing acceleration on pci (or fake agp, whatever) radeons really isn't a very bad thing
[03:25] <Kamion> daniels: yeah, xserver-xfree86 has provided xserver for a long time
[03:25] <kent> If i try to install Hoary with qemu (I have no free partition to play with), should i still report bugs (if found)? Or does the use of qemu make the bug reports of low value to Hoary developers?
[03:25] <daniels> Kamion: oh, right.  well, -dbg should provide it also.
[03:25] <svenl> nope, but maybe related to the 'my machine hangs' whenpeople force suff :)
[03:25] <Kamion> daniels: it dates to xfree86v3 days, when depending on xserver made sense 'cos there were lots of them
[03:25] <daniels> if you force stuff, you get to keep both pieces
[03:25] <daniels> Kamion: yeah
[03:26] <daniels> svenl: seriously, if you add Option "AGPFastWrite" to your configuration and your machine locks up dead, I don't care
[03:26] <svenl> I will try to find time to port the pcigart-fallback patch from debian, but i can't promise nothing.
[03:26] <daniels> svenl: my aim is to get 2D working absolutely out of the box for absolutely everyone.  3d acceleration is a nice bonus.
[03:26] <Kamion> kent: not exceptionally high priority maybe, but the bugs are still valuable
[03:26] <daniels> svenl: i doubt it's a patch from debian, it's probably just something that broke since radeon_driver has changed so much
[03:26] <svenl> daniels: 2D performance is vastly improved on radeon with DRI.
[03:27] <svenl> daniels: we will see.
[03:27] <svenl> daniels: still, the workaround would be upto 5 lines of shell script, and d-i stuff is full of this, so it is not unprecedented.
[03:28] <daniels> svenl: yes, but I have to maintain xserver-xorg, and the configuration there is unmaintainable as it is
[03:29] <daniels> svenl: and yeah, I know the difference in 2D performance.  but I could spend a while making sure that all i8xx owners can actually get X started, or I could make sure that people who owned PCI Radeons or fake-AGP Radeons got every last drop of performance out of their card ... I know which I'd rather.
[03:29] <pitti_> daniels: kudos, preview works great on my flatmate's widescreen laptop (it was completely b0rked about a month ago)
[03:30] <daniels> pitti_: oh cool.   it might well break again after preview. :\  but we'll see.
[03:30] <seb128> pitti_: around ?
[03:30] <pitti_> seb128: of course :-)
[03:30] <pitti_> seb128: currently installing my desktop, that's why I'm at the laptop now
[03:30] <seb128> pitti_: <jody> Can you put him in contact with me
[03:30] <seb128> pitti_: about the libgnomecups regression
[03:30] <pitti_> seb128: oh, is that the g-cups-manager guy?
[03:31] <seb128> you can query him on irc.gnome ?
[03:31] <pitti_> cool
[03:31] <sivang> seb128: what regression are we talking about?
[03:31] <pitti_> hm, I didn't investigate this problem yet, but I'll do
[03:31] <smurfix> Bah. language-support-en deps on openoffice.org-l10n-en which deps on openoffice :-/
 the "Paper" and "Complex" register cards of the properties window are empty
[03:31] <pitti_> smurfix: erm, shouldn't
[03:31] <smurfix> doesn't any more
[03:31] <sivang> pitti_: lemme know if I can help on those, I am alrady in contact with jody
[03:31] <Kamion>  Depends: openoffice.org (>> 1.1.1+1.1.2) | language-support-en
[03:32] <pitti_> Depends: openoffice.org (>> 1.1.1+1.1.2) | language-support-en
[03:32] <seb128> pitti_: short story: I've said to JHM to not update in debian and he has said to jody that's broken
[03:32] <pitti_> smurfix: ^
[03:32] <pitti_> seb128: I join the channel
[03:32] <seb128> ah
[03:32] <sivang> hey jody :-)
[03:33] <pitti_> Hi jody
[03:33] <pitti_> jody: welcome to the Ubuntu channel :-)
[03:33] <jody> Good morning lads
[03:33] <jody> pitti_: I here you've got problems with libgnomecups 0.30
[03:33] <pitti_> jody: I /msg you
[03:33] <jody> blah, 0.2.0
[03:34] <smurfix> This morning the German mirror still had the old dep
[03:34] <daniels> ok, i'm going back to bed; not feeling very well.
[03:34] <dholbach> daniels: hope you get well soon, good night
[03:34] <smurfix> daniels: take care
[03:34] <pitti_> smurfix: it's like this for ages (months) now...
[03:35] <smurfix> pitti_: strange
[03:35] <smurfix> I'll re-check later
[03:35] <smurfix> installing the package in aptitude definitely pulled in all the OOo crap
[03:36] <jdub> hi jody :-)
[03:39] <svenl> daniels: but the xresprobe is worth fixing if i provide you a clean patch ?
[03:47] <ogra> pitti_, i mailed the link to the announcement to heise and golem shortly after we talked....
[03:48] <pitti_> cool, thanks
[03:48] <ogra> pitti_: but i think heise will ignore us again
[03:49] <ogra> (hopefully a golem message forces them)
[03:54] <sivang> bah, no network on the livecd :-( i had to enable it manually, since the /etc/netowrk/intefaces file has only loopback
[03:54] <sivang> known issue?
[03:55] <sivang> (i have 2 nics)
[03:55] <ogra> sivang: a bit late to report that :) preview is already out
[03:55] <Burgundavia> that is why it is a preview
[03:56] <pitti_> sivang: worked fine for all my tests
[03:56] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: where is the bug report ? i  will reopen/add comments
[03:56] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: (sorry, meaning, what is the bug number)
[03:56] <pitti_> sivang_livecd: which bug report?
 sivang: worked fine for all my tests
[03:57] <pitti_> sivang_livecd: I checked it on five computers
[03:57] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: hmmm
[03:57] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: interesting
[03:57] <ogra> sivang_livecd: i checked on 3 (2 arches)
[03:57] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: maybe it's my crazy system
[03:57] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: the live CD tries to enable the network automatically, but if it can't for whatever reason then it won't ask you questions
[03:57] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: compare with the install CD and see what questions it asks
[03:58] <Kamion> the process is largely the same, but the live CD forces it to be noninteractive
[04:02] <mako> woot
[04:02] <mako> mdz: hey.. your post needs moderation :)
[04:02] <Keybuk> I had images of him psychically connected to the servers, and suddenly sitting up in bed screaming as the release went out and they started to take the strain
[04:03] <pitti_> yay, another successful i386 installation
[04:03] <mako> mdz: no.. it's done
[04:05] <jdub> mako: :)
[04:07] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: 17:00utc has passed already? :-)
[04:08] <pitti> no
[04:08] <pitti> it's 15:08 UTC
[04:08] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: oh, so the preview hasn't been released yet right?
[04:08] <pitti> not officially
[04:08] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: k
[04:08] <pitti> however, the images are ready
[04:08] <Kamion> erm, it has
[04:08] <Kamion> it went out officially a couple of hours ago
[04:08] <sivang_livecd> Kamion: oops
[04:08] <ogra> sivang_livecd: the announcement got out some hours ago
[04:08] <pitti_> Kamion: oh, did it?
[04:09] <Kamion> yes
[04:09] <Burgundavia> sivang_livecd: suggest you read the top of distrowatch
[04:09] <pitti_> Kamion: I thought sabdfl told us sth. like 1800 UTC
[04:09] <pitti_> hmm
[04:09] <pitti_> darn
[04:09] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: yes, that what i recalled from the last email of mdz
[04:09] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: or on the channel
[04:09] <Kamion> it was going to be 1800, but everything seemed to be ready, and sabdfl said let's do it early to catch the news in all US timezones
[04:10] <sivang_livecd> Kamion: ok, then off to translating and spreading the announcment , is the draft on the wiki still applicable?
[04:10] <ogra> Kamion: btw, no announcement on http://ubuntulinux.org/ ?
[04:11] <pitti_> cool, so I missed the release
[04:11] <pitti_> darn
[04:11] <pitti_> CONGRATS EVERYBODY!!!
[04:11] <ogra> heh
[04:11] <Kamion> ogra: probably should be ...
[04:12] <pitti_> so why is the preview release not on the www.ubuntu.com frontpage
[04:12] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: yeah, or see ubuntu-announce@ for what actually went out
[04:12] <pitti_> or not even in thew news section
[04:12] <ogra> pitti_: thats what i was asking :)
[04:12] <Kamion> I'm not sure how the news stuff works
[04:12] <Kamion> mako: around?
[04:13] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: which of your NICs should have been used?
[04:14] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: sorry it went out earlier than intended, we probably should have remembered to contact announcement translators
[04:14] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: I've added that to our release checklist
[04:16] <sivang> Kamion: I can add news
[04:16] <sivang> Kamion: (as I added the bit about arsetechnica)
[04:17] <smurfix> sivang: Mind the typo
[04:17] <sivang> smurfix: in the name? :-)
[04:18] <zul> announcement should be on slashdot if you want alot of publicitiy
[04:18] <smurfix> sivang: Yeah, "arsetechnica" looks ... slightly wrong, somehow
[04:19] <sivang> smurfix: well, I don't recall if I did a type on the news bit...sorry :-/
[04:19] <smurfix> sivang: The news bit looks OK
[04:19] <zul> hey lamont_r
[04:19] <pitti> Hi lamont_r
[04:20] <Kamion> "ars technica"
[04:20] <Kamion> or maybe no space
[04:21] <sivang> Kamion: nothing on u-announce, I'm afraid
[04:21] <Kamion> I have it on ubuntu-announce@ here
[04:22] <Kamion> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-March/000019.html
[04:22] <sivang> Kamion: thanks, I have only the UDU there
[04:26] <jdub> seb128: hmm, sabayon release :)
[04:26] <dholbach> were on LWN.net
[04:27] <seb128> jdub: yeah, I've started to package it
[04:27] <jdub> heh :)
[04:28] <jdub> "Administrator level permissions are needed to run this program because it can modify system files."
[04:28] <jdub> ^ ber
[04:28] <seb128> jdub: but I need to figure what to do with the user to add and some stuff
[04:28] <smurfix> Ah, cdimage.u.c is already slowing down. :-/
[04:29] <lamont_r>    559190016 100%    1.16MB/s    0:07:38  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[04:29] <lamont_r> not so bad...
[04:29] <smurfix> We should probably encourage people to use BitTorrent if possible ..?
[04:30] <lamont_r> certainly
[04:30] <smurfix> lamont_r: Where's that from? cdimage?
[04:31] <lamont_r> yeag
[04:31] <lamont_r> to yesterday's image - only really transferred 39MB... :-0)
[04:32] <lamont_r> given that the link I'm borrowing right now is only 1.5 mbits/sec....
[04:32] <jbailey> What the right bugzilla classification for bugs that affect debian but not us that got propagated to bugzilla?
[04:32] <lamont_r> NOTWARTY
[04:32] <pitti> jbailey: RESOLVED/NOTWARTY
[04:33] <jdub> seb128: home == /var/lib/sabayon ?
[04:33] <jbailey> pitti: Thanks.
[04:33] <lamont_r> and one of these days, that'll get renamed to NOTUBUNTU, but probably not before hoary ...
[04:33] <lamont_r> or so I've heard rumoured...
[04:33] <seb128> jdub: does it need a home ?
[04:33] <jdub> yeah
[04:34] <mako> Kamion: yes
[04:34] <ogra> lamont_r: oh, you talked to the malone guys ? :-P
[04:34] <mako> Kamion: was caffienating :)
[04:34] <fabbione> re
[04:35] <pitti> hey fabbione, slept well?
[04:35] <lamont_r> right.  livecd finished downloading.  heading home
[04:35] <lamont_r> b1t3 m3!
[04:35] <lamont_r> gah!
[04:36] <fabbione> pitti: yeah it was really needed
[04:36] <ogra> pitti, http://www.golem.de/0503/36865.html
[04:36] <ogra> :-D
[04:37] <fabbione> elmo: you awake?
[04:37] <sivang> releases.ubuntu.com is down for some reason?
[04:37] <sivang> (can't get to it)
[04:38] <fabbione> sivang: probably overloaded
[04:38] <maswan> sivang: I'm currently mirroring from it, so it seems to be ok.
[04:38] <dholbach> ogra: wow... we have "PowerOC" ISOs as well?
[04:38] <maswan> I was thinking that I should have gotten that done earlier though
[04:39] <ogra> dholbach: only OC 64 yet, but they are hidden somehow....lol
[04:39] <sivang> I can ping to it (64 bytes from <IP_ADDRESS>: icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=86.0 ms
[04:39] <sivang> but don't get a response, probably overloaded.
[04:41] <maswan> in an hour or less: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[04:41] <thom> sivang: kicked it, thanks
[04:42] <dholbach> i'll be back later... *wave*
[04:42] <sivang> thom: no, thank you :-)
[04:43] <Kamion> mako: can we get something about hoary preview on www.ubuntu.com?
[04:43] <sivang> argh, what is that apt-get.org doing there? :-)
[04:47] <Kamion> sivang: that was Mark's addition
[04:47] <Kamion> (I believe)
[04:48] <ogra> i thought elmos
[04:48] <Kamion> that would surprise me
[04:48] <mako> Kamion: yeah, i'll do that
[04:49] <Kamion> Does anyone know how to test the return value of setlocale(LC_ALL, $LANG) from shell?
[04:49] <ogra> Kamion: i just remember his name mentioned in relation to it....
[04:49] <Kamion> ogra: yes, that was Mark asking him if it was accurate because elmo did a lot of the imports for multiverse
[04:49] <Kamion> shortly after warty released IIRC
[04:49] <ogra> ah, ok
[04:50] <Kamion> I suppose I could do perl -e setlocale or something
[04:51] <Kamion> there's 'locale -a', but it's in an annoying form
[04:52] <Kamion> and wow, no way am I going to parse the output of 'locale -av'
[04:53] <thom> Kamion: wimp ;-)
[04:53] <lamont> Kamion: that's almost parsable
[04:58] <srbaker> anyone know of a gnome app that will let me change between wifi networks?
[04:58] <srbaker> or, autosensing a la Rendesvous would be nice :)
[04:58] <Mithrandir> srbaker: networkmanager or netapplet
[04:58] <tseng> netapplet and networkmanager both try to fill that niche
[04:58] <tseng> both fail so far
[04:59] <tseng> net applet is a fair bit more usable
[04:59] <srbaker> okay
[04:59] <srbaker> thanks
[04:59] <Kamion> lamont: if you're INSANE
[04:59] <sabdfl> netapplet has some bad side effects if you have multiple wifi networks around
[04:59] <lamont> Kamion: you have doubts? :-)
[04:59] <sabdfl> for me, at least
[05:00] <tseng> sabdfl: its not a fan of the ipw2200 drivers either
[05:00] <tseng> since the dont report signal in a standard way
[05:00] <Kamion> lamont: ...
[05:04] <lamont> yum. new bind9 bits coming
[05:04] <lamont> but not for hoary, of course./
[05:04] <jdub> lamont: you mentioned postfix-tls cert love? uses ssl-cert?
[05:05] <mroth> the other thing to look at in addition to GUI switching of wifi networks is something that integrates WPA support for end-users in a easy to use way
[05:05] <lamont> Kamion: daily/current is the preview, yes?
[05:05] <mroth> (for next release cycle, of course)
[05:05] <lamont> guess I could just verify sums..
[05:05] <lamont> mroth: WPA?
[05:06] <mroth> lamont: wifi protected access... standard WEP replacement
[05:06] <lamont> ah,ok
[05:06] <maswan> So, feel fre to redirect people here if releases gets too busy: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[05:07] <jdub> mroth: NM is getting some of that
[05:07] <jdub> might be ready for hoary+1
[05:07] <mroth> that would be nice
[05:07] <mroth> lot of users out there who dont want to edit a wpa_supplicant.conf file, dont blame em
[05:08] <Kamion> lamont: yes
[05:08] <Kamion> maswan: thanks; we need to update www.u.c/download/ somehow too
[05:09] <Kamion> maswan: can you arrange for IndexIgnore in .htaccess to be permitted in that directory, so that jigit and favicon.ico don't show up?
[05:10] <Tux-Rox> Any plans to try and get Beagle into 5.04?
[05:10] <Kamion> not 5.04, maybe 5.10
[05:11] <Tux-Rox> With a back-port repo version available, I hope! :-)
[05:11] <jdub> not in main
[05:11] <jdub> it may be in universe
[05:12] <Kamion> ick, backports
[05:12] <lamont> jdub: so how much of hoary are we gonna backport to warty, huh, huh, huh????
[05:12] <sabdfl> lamont: only the gnome parts
[05:12] <Kamion> we do six-month releases, any more than that is just impatient :-)
[05:12] <mroth> countdown to slashdot post "omg why does hoary not have firefox 1.0.1--it is totally useless!"
[05:12] <Tux-Rox> That would be nice. I've got it going now, but it does have a few issues yet. Hopefully they will get ironed out. Thx for the info!
[05:12] <Kamion> mroth: hoary final probably will
[05:12] <jdub> backports are vile and reprehensible :-)
[05:12] <mroth> Kamion: I know that, you know that, but slashdot posters, well... ;-)
[05:13] <Kamion> mroth: this is why I do not read /. :-)
[05:13] <lamont> jdub: you know that, I now that... But does that stop them???
[05:13] <Kamion> well, actually, it's more 'cos I once had an entire story dedicated to vilifying me
[05:13] <Kamion> but that's another matter :)
[05:13] <Tux-Rox> It's one thing to read /. objectively, it's quite another to post.....
[05:13] <mroth> Kamion: haha, what story was that?
[05:13] <jdub> lamont: the sf.net ones are stunningly broken
[05:13] <jdub> lamont: have you looked at the version numbers?
[05:14] <Kamion> mroth: some half-baked early-release story about Debian splitting non-free bits out of the doc-linux package
[05:14] <Kamion> which I maintained at the time
[05:14] <mroth> ahh
[05:14] <Kamion> we didn't even do the split until a year or more later, but that didn't stop slashdo
[05:14] <Kamion> t
[05:15] <sivang> Kamion: the shrinkwrapped cds are like bussiness card cds?
[05:15] <lamont> jdub: I ignore backports other than the ones on people.debian.org/~lamont/woody-updates
[05:16] <jdub> heh
[05:17] <mroth> did mako get the new shipit thing up?  i bet preview is going to generate a lot of cd orders
[05:17] <lamont> sabdfl: feeling sorry over the artwork, eh?
[05:17] <sabdfl> lamont: that part we can forward-port
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: no
[05:18] <lamont> lol
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: we don't do netinsts or businesscards at the moment
[05:18] <sivang> Kamion: ah ok, so what are "shrinkwrapped" cds? :)
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: we may do at some point, but they'll be on an "if you know about them, you can use them" kind of basis, not heavily promoted to avoid confusion with the full CDs
[05:18] <Nafallo> all files disassociate their programsettings. is this a local bug?
[05:18] <maswan> Kamion: Hmm... I'm not sure we have anytihng like that active at all. I'll have to check the config files.
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: "shrinkwrapped" means officially packaged
[05:19] <Kamion> sivang: it's by analogy with the plastic packaging you get on all sorts of products that shrinks around the product it's wrapping
[05:19] <sivang> Kamion: ah ok, thakns :)
[05:19] <sivang> Kamion: ah right, with vacume used to shrink wrap ;-)
[05:20] <lamont> sivang: sometimes, but not always.
[05:20] <lamont> some of it truely is heat-shrinked
[05:20] <lamont> shrunk.
[05:20] <lamont> whatever
[05:21] <lamont> thom: wanna know why you don't get /etc/aliases.db on a fresh install?
[05:21] <jdub> seb128: you were chatting to carlos earlier about i18n issues - any answers for the new .desktop file translations?
[05:22] <seb128> the translations are in rosetta but not in the langpacks
[05:22] <Kamion> lamont: huh?
[05:22] <thom> lamont: oh?
[05:22] <seb128> ie: we need to merge them by hand for the moment
[05:22] <jdub> yeah
[05:22] <jdub> hrm
[05:22] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.2.45ubuntu25>$ wcgrep aliases
[05:22] <lamont> Kamion: from deep inside debootstrap somewhere, ls -l /usr/sbin/sendmail*
[05:22] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.2.45ubuntu25>$
[05:23] <lamont> you'll find sendmail.REAL, and sendmail -> /bin/true
[05:23] <Kamion> lamont: hah, yeah, that's kind of necessary
[05:23] <lamont> and newaliases is, of course, a symlink to sendmail
[05:23] <Kamion> don't want it actually sending mail
[05:23] <lamont> right
[05:23] <maswan> Kamion: http://churchill.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[05:23] <maswan> Kamion: like that?
[05:23] <Kamion> maswan: yeah
[05:23] <lamont> fortunately, postalias works almost as well.
[05:23] <Kamion> maswan: (this is like really minor nitpicking)
[05:23] <lamont> so I don't have to detect debootstrap
[05:23] <Kamion> cool
[05:24] <maswan> Kamion: Ok, I'll see if I can get that propagated to the proper machines then
[05:24] <Mithrandir> mako: you're on BoingBoing :)
[05:24] <lamont> (postalias doesn't use $alias_database, but I _know_ what that says on a fresh install...)
[05:25] <Kamion> maswan: ta
[05:25] <lamont> although detecting it isn't so hard... just 'newaliases --this-is-fatal': if that succeeds, then you've been diverted.
[05:26] <lamont> "american english" keyboard == pc105?
[05:27] <Mithrandir> probably 104 if you have windows keys
[05:27] <Mithrandir> 101 if not
[05:27] <Mithrandir> iirc
[05:30] <mako> Mithrandir: again?!
[05:30] <mako> Mithrandir: dude, this is the second time this week!
[05:33] <lamont> hrm.. maybe writing that 4x CD-R at 16x was bad...
[05:34] <HiddenWolf> lol@lamont
[05:34] <mako> Mithrandir: thanks for telling me :) i'm still feeling the bandwidth crunch from unhappybirthday.com :-/
[05:34] <lamont> oh yeah.. wrote 454/515 MB.. :-(
[05:35] <maswan> Kamion: there, all done: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[05:36] <maswan> Right now I'm having fun in that the gnome livecd generated about 100-200Mbit extra traffic, and the ftp mirror isn't even breathing hard. :)
[05:37] <Kamion> maswan: ta
[05:37] <Mithrandir> mako: about the 419 mail.
[05:38] <Mithrandir> mako: you rock, but you knew that already. :)
[05:41] <pitti> lamont: wanna build a new house with them? :)
[05:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: imagine what would happen if he shipped them to you.
[05:41] <Keybuk> knowing Jane, she'd make sure you got them
[05:41] <Keybuk> by air drop
[05:41] <silbs> all in one big package
[05:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: or even if he cut it by a bit, but shipped you 50k
[05:41] <mpt_london> A crate of them on your vege garden
[05:42] <mako> lamont: try it
[05:42] <mako> lamont: i've actually made that impossible
[05:42] <mako> lamont: i am the only person who can order 100000000 cds now
[05:42] <mako> lamont: you ahev to do it through mine
[05:43] <Mithrandir> mako: he'll just trojan your computer
[05:45] <mako> Mithrandir: well, actually, he could do it from chinstrap probably
[05:45] <mako> you can only place large orders from chinstrap
[05:45] <toresbe> I... HATE... ncurses
[05:46] <mako> thom: we better get those to him quick.. i've heard rumors of increased volcacnic activity in his area
[05:46] <toresbe> Why must it point out my C newbishness with such skill?
[05:46] <thom> mako: i think the impact of the cds will help the volcano come to life
[05:46] <Mithrandir> toresbe: it has been honed for many years.
[05:47] <toresbe> This piece of code worked. I went out to the kitchen for a dinner. I return.
[05:47] <toresbe> Program does not work.
[05:48] <Mithrandir> it's probably an error on line 46
[05:48] <toresbe> 46: main (int argc, char *argv[] ) :P
[05:48] <Mithrandir> good guess, heh?
[05:48] <toresbe> Well, look! No more segfaults.
[05:49] <lamont> mako: nice
[05:49] <lamont> ejsy frgomrd
[05:49] <lamont> what defines 'large'
[05:49] <lamont> damn keyboard
[05:50] <lamont> hrm... 300 is large.
[05:50] <fabbione> mako: i just updated my order for hoary.. mind to check if you get the proper DAnish chars?
[05:51] <lamont> mako: will probably be re-shipping several of them to family members around the country, and then I plan to paper a school or two
[05:52] <lamont> s/school/city/
[05:55] <Kamion> pitti: have you done the new language packs yet, or do I have time to slip in a change?
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: already uploaded a few hours ago :-(
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: what do you want to change?
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: I can't do update packages until the dpkg bug is fixed
[05:57] <Kamion> pitti: about to upload glibc with a new --keep-existing flag to locale-gen
[05:57] <pitti> yay
[05:57] <Kamion> I'm bored of locale-gen generating new locales all the time
[05:57] <pitti> Kamion: thanks, that's great
[05:57] <Kamion> or rather, locales it already has
[05:57] <thom> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ ; i hate writing html :P
[05:58] <jdub> ah, give it to someone you know who loves it :)
[05:58] <jdub> LAMONT! thom wants to speak to you!
[05:58] <thom> jdub: thanks; i'll mail you the script
[05:58] <thom> it's embedded in perl, btw
[05:58] <Kamion> it's a bit RED :)
[05:58] <jdub> heh
[05:58] <thom> just for extra love
[05:59] <jdub> golly
[05:59] <Hannes_> nvu :P
[05:59] <pitti> thom: erm, the white line is amd64?
[05:59] <thom> Kamion: it just does what the css tells me
[05:59] <jdub> thom: hey, maybe steal css from planet ubuntu
[05:59] <thom> pitti: all
[05:59] <jdub> thom: it routes around some plone damage
[05:59] <thom> jdub: is that less damaged?
[05:59] <thom> cool
[05:59] <Kamion> pitti: it doesn't do removals from locale-archive, so your prerm/postrm scripts or whatever still have to run 'locale-gen' without arguments
[05:59] <pitti> thom: the key to the right of the diagram has a white background, I can't read the white text on it :-/
[06:00] <Kamion> pitti: and you need to depend on locales (>= 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu10)
[06:00] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I already modify the templates, so that I don't forget about it
[06:00] <jbailey> Kamion: Will that do the right thing when locales actually change?
[06:01] <koke> jdub: I don't see you in #gnome, do you know what happened to gnome 2.10 spanish release notes?
[06:01] <Kamion> jbailey: locales still runs locale-gen without arguments on upgrade, which will regenerate everything from scratch
[06:01] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[06:01] <Kamion> it's an option for the case where you're running locale-gen multiple times in sequence without upgrading locales
[06:01] <pitti> Kamion: please wait with upload
[06:01] <thom> pitti: yeah
[06:01] <thom> jdub: thanks, that looks better
[06:01] <pitti> Kamion: the langpack just does "/usr/sbin/install-language-locales %LCODE%"
[06:01] <pitti> Kamion: so you have to change this script in glibc
[06:02] <Kamion> pitti: oh, ok
[06:02] <pitti> Kamion: I added this abstraction to have the script on one central place
[06:02] <pitti> Kamion: did you already upload?
[06:02] <Kamion> no, not yet
[06:02] <pitti> cool
[06:02] <Kamion> cool, no dependency needed then
[06:03] <pitti> yes
[06:03] <jdub> koke: they were broken when i built them
[06:03] <pitti> well, at least not a new one
[06:03] <jdub> koke: might've been updated, but i haven't done another run
[06:03] <koke> jdub: when was that??
[06:03] <pitti> Kamion: it already depends on the versions that provides install-language-locales
[06:03] <Kamion> pitti: indeed
[06:03] <jdub> the current release notes module layout is a bit bong
[06:03] <jdub> koke: mere hours before release
[06:04] <koke> murrayc updated the es.po for me after the release
[06:06] <lamont> hrm.. this 5 year old media really sucks
[06:07] <Kamion> pitti: whoa, install-language-locales sorts the comment at the top of /etc/locale.gen
[06:08] <Kamion> pitti: I'll not fix that now; but maybe you could just remove the sort?
[06:08] <lamont> especially since people might put comments right above various entries in the file, etc.
[06:08] <Kamion> yeah
[06:08] <mpt_london> Kamion: Please add to <http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/> a link to the release notes. Perhaps as the first sentence before "Ubuntu is distributed on...", something like: "This is the second major release of Ubuntu, a free operating system based on the Linux kernel. To find out what's new in this release, see the _release notes_."
[06:09] <Kamion> it isn't the second major release, it's a preview of the second major release
[06:09] <pitti> Kamion: which comment?
[06:09] <Kamion> pitti: all of them
[06:09] <Kamion> pitti: it does 'sort -u /etc/locale.gen'
[06:09] <mpt_london> Kamion: sure
[06:09] <Kamion> mpt_london: but yeah; any idea where the release notes are?
[06:09] <pitti> Kamion: normal #-style ones?
[06:09] <Kamion> pitti: yes, locales puts some there by default
[06:09] <mpt_london> Kamion: No -- that's part of th reason I'm asking for a link to them ;-)
[06:10] <Kamion> hm
[06:10] <Kamion> ok, in a bit :)
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: I probably removed them when I played around with this
[06:10] <mpt_london> Kamion: Once I know where they are, perhaps I could help with jdub's "a bit bong" problem
[06:10] <Kamion> pitti: probably not absolutely trivially fixable, so will defer
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: I see, I have to improve the the check
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: I will send you an updated script
[06:11] <pitti> Kamion: tomorrow, probably, I still have some RL stuff to do today
[06:11] <Kamion> pitti: ok. I'll do this upload now so we get the live CD speedup
[06:11] <jdub> mpt_london: we were talking about the gnome release notes
[06:12] <Hannes_> btw does the live cd boot from an -USB-stick?
[06:13] <Kamion> Hannes_: not at the moment I think, but it would probably be possible to make it do so with a bit of hacking
[06:13] <Hannes_> ok
[06:13] <Kamion> casper is fairly generic at least in principle
[06:13] <Kamion> but you won't be able to write it to a USB stick and have it Just Work
[06:13] <Kamion> yet
[06:13] <Hannes_> as it would be nice to use it from there
[06:14] <Kamion> nod
[06:15] <Hannes_> or could you install it there with the install-disk?
[06:15] <Kamion> theoretically, but there are a number of bugs surrounding that
[06:15] <Kamion> you can certainly try it though, would probably only involve some minor bootloader hacking at worst
[06:16] <mpt_london> jdub: Well, with all due respect, there's lots about gnome that's a bit bong ;-)
[06:16] <Kamion> easier than making the live CD boot from there :)
[06:16] <Hannes_> but it would be good to have the "system check" (as in live cd) as you use it in different places
[06:16] <Hannes_> Kamion: yes, i know
[06:16] <fabbione> mjg59: ping?
[06:16] <Kamion> Hannes_: yeah
[06:16] <jdub> Kamion: ubuntu release notes haven't been officially published yet
[06:17] <jdub> Kamion: mako has some autobuilt samples, but that's it
[06:17] <fabbione> now that i have hibernate my machine... how do i bring it back to life?
[06:17] <Hannes_> fabbione: power button on my machine
[06:17] <Kamion> fabbione: switch it on
[06:17] <mpt_london> jdub: What was that that was in the topic before, then? Was that just a draft?
[06:17] <jdub> i don't know
[06:18] <Kamion> fabbione: hibernate is "save all state to disk, tell initrd to resume from there, power off"
[06:18] <fabbione> HMMMM
[06:18] <fabbione> it never did a poweroff
[06:18] <Hannes_> Kamion: one + with the usbstick is that you could (mabye) save to it
[06:18] <fabbione> and pushing the power button has the effect of a bit of disk activity and that's it
[06:18] <mako> jdub: i'm trying to find context
[06:18] <mako> jdub: what i have i built?
[06:19] <jdub> mako: release notes samples
[06:19] <mako> userlinux stuff, etc?
[06:19] <mpt_london> ah, here it is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DraftHoaryPreviewAnnouncement
[06:19] <mako> jdub: oh yes that too
[06:19] <jdub> mpt_london: hoary preview is announced and shipped
[06:19] <Kamion> linking to the actual archived announcement would be better than that
[06:20] <doko> jdub: so it's ok upload fixes again?
[06:20] <jdub> doko: yes
[06:20] <travail101> any chance of getting linux-wlan-ng added to the live and install CDs?
[06:20] <mpt_london> jdub: I realize that, but if it's announced and shipped, there should be release notes somewhere ...
[06:20] <Kamion> doko: I just uploaded glibc, so I certainly hope so ;)
[06:20] <jdub> mpt_london: the release notes are targeted for the final release
[06:21] <mpt_london> oh
[06:21] <jdub> mpt_london: mako will point you to in-progress samples in a moment
[06:21] <travail101> yes no?
[06:21] <Kamion> jdub: they're linked to from the draft announcement
[06:21] <travail101> maybe?
[06:21] <jdub> Kamion: don't know what i'm explaining it for then ;)
[06:22] <Kamion> travail101: there's been a bit of discussion about it; is it just the userspace tools, or kernel modules as well?
[06:22] <Kamion> travail101: if the latter, they should be integrated into our standard kernels instead
[06:22] <Kamion> travail101: I do agree on the former, but don't know whether there's really time before our next release now
[06:22] <travail101> the drivers are kernel modules...
[06:23] <mako> mpt_london: i'm building the new one right now.. give it like 5 minutes
[06:23] <Kamion> yeah, we require all our supported kernel modules to be in the linux-image-* or linux-restricted-modules-* packages (depending on licensing)
[06:23] <mako> mpt_london: not building, but downloading and installing
[06:23] <travail101> and are of course necessary for Prism2-2.5 card owners to be online with the liveCD
[06:23] <fabbione> travail101: not for hoary.. they will be in hoary+1
[06:23] <Kamion> travail101: right, I have a USB stick that requires them
[06:24] <Kamion> I thought PCI cards worked with the standard Ubuntu kernel though
[06:24] <travail101> that's what kept me from using th liveCD as my preferred rescue disk =P
[06:24] <travail101> Kamion, I also have a USB stick... the D-link DWL-122
[06:24] <Kamion> fabbione: hmm. actually prism2_usb is already in the kernel
[06:25] <travail101> Kamion, it is?
[06:25] <Kamion> see wlan-ng-prism2-usb.dpatch
[06:25] <Kamion> I think it's just a matter of userspace tools
[06:25] <travail101> Kamion, in the vanilla kernel, or the ubuntu kernel?
[06:25] <Kamion> Ubuntu kernel
[06:25] <travail101> oh
[06:25] <travail101> not in worty though right?
[06:25] <Kamion> $ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.10/linux-image-2.6.10-4-386_2.6.10-25.1_i386.deb | grep prism2_usb
[06:25] <travail101> warty..
[06:25] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root     85073 2005-03-09 21:43:26 ./lib/modules/2.6.10-4-386/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/prism2/prism2_usb.ko
[06:26] <Kamion> $ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS>/linux-image-<IP_ADDRESS>-3-386_<IP_ADDRESS>-16_i386.deb | grep prism2_usb
[06:26] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root     84022 2004-10-12 15:19:14 ./lib/modules/<IP_ADDRESS>-3-386/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/prism2/prism2_usb.ko
[06:26] <Kamion> yes, it's in the Warty kernel
[06:26] <Kamion> dunno about the live CD
[06:26] <Kamion> the Warty live CD was built in a strange way, so it's hard for me to guess at exactly what's on it
[06:27] <travail101> ah, well I know that modprobe prism2_usb doesn't work on it...
[06:27] <travail101> and I had to use the not so elegent Knoppix to save my computer
[06:27] <Kamion> I'm pretty sure I got my prism2_usb stick to work with just a Hoary install
[06:27] <Kamion> and linux-wlan-ng
[06:28] <Kamion> (userspace)
[06:28] <Kamion> jdub: opinions on linux-wlan-ng in main for hoary? we've discussed it a few times ...
[06:28] <Kamion> getting it to work in the installer would be, er, interesting at this stage, but we could at least make it workable in the installed system
[06:29] <travail101> even if it doesn't automatically set it all up for you, just having it there would be nice for people who can plug in wired to their network whenever they want, or at all
[06:30] <lamont> warty livecd kernel is 2.6.7+stuff - it's not my friend
[06:30] <amu> heh
[06:30] <travail101> but since hotplug will load the drivers, couldn't that initiated a sequence to setup the user tool/scripts and all that
[06:30] <travail101> can= can't
[06:30] <travail101> bad typo, bad bad typo
[06:31] <koke> jdub: about gnome spanish release notes...
 Tell him I'll do it if he wants.
[06:31] <jdub> Kamion: on phone atm
[06:32] <pvanhoof> I'll just copypaste it here :)
[06:32] <pvanhoof>  I've rebuild the software thats available on ubuntu using qc-usb-modules in a more-correct-for-2.6.x kernels build-environment that will be more easy to package and distribute
[06:32] <pvanhoof>  is this the right channel to tell packagers about it?
[06:32] <pvanhoof> http://freax.be/wiki/index.php/Quickcam_Messenger_Linux_kernel_2.6_driver
[06:32] <pvanhoof>  this is a small wiki about it
[06:32] <pvanhoof> dholbach pvanhoof: i believe you have a better audience for kernel matters on #ubuntu-devel
[06:32] <pvanhoof> so ...
[06:32] <pvanhoof> :)
[06:33] <lamont> travail101: warty live doesn't use hotplug, iirc
[06:33] <jdub> Kamion: off the cuff rigid and boring answer is a pretty strong "no" ;)
[06:33] <travail101> well warty live doesn't even have the drivers
[06:33] <travail101> so this would be for hoary live
[06:33] <Kamion> jdub: thought so
[06:34] <jdub> Kamion: ignoring installer for the moment, does it involve any integration work, or just shipping bits?
[06:34] <Kamion> jdub: afaik, just shipping; people can install it if they need it
[06:35] <Kamion> jdub: ideally it'd all be there by default, but the perfect is the enemy of the good :-)
[06:35] <Kamion> jdub: I can test it out with universe, though
[06:35] <jdub> Kamion: anything scary about installing it by default?
[06:36] <Kamion> it installs if-pre-up.d and if-pre-down.d scripts, and stuff like that; makes it not a trivially obvious "yes"
[06:36] <jdub> mmmm
[06:36] <travail101> still talking about linux-wlan-ng? or something else?
[06:36] <Kamion> travail101: yes, linux-wlan-ng
[06:36] <jdub> travail101: yeah
[06:37] <travail101> it's not hard to install... set up...
[06:37] <Kamion> jdub: I also suspect it's not entirely 2.6ish, but I'm not sure of my ground there
[06:37] <jdub> Kamion: haven't there been maintenance woes upstream, too?
[06:37] <Kamion> jdub: ah, I don't know anything about that
[06:37] <travail101> ubuntu doesn't come with a setup build environment does it?
[06:38] <Kamion> travail101: apt-get install build-essential
[06:38] <tseng> how many cards really arent supported by prism2 now
[06:38] <Kamion> tseng: USB devices are not
[06:38] <tseng> or orinoco
[06:38] <jdub> the big score for wlan-ng is ppc users stuck with usb wifi
[06:38] <Kamion> tseng: at least, you need userspace tools to make them work
[06:38] <jdub> s/ppc/apple+broadcom/
[06:38] <Kamion> the 12" lot
[06:38] <Kamion> (no PCMCIA on the 12" powerbook ...)
[06:39] <jdub> yeah
[06:39] <jdub> 2nd class machines...
[06:39] <jdub> my toilet seat is still grumbling along ;)
[06:40] <Kamion> really it would be better if somebody figured out how to do the linux-wlan-ng integration in a nice hotpluggish way; it's weird and complex atm
[06:40] <travail101> you could check out the knoppix linux-wlan-ng stuff they even have a configuration script... but it requires human input, that could be changed though I suspect, and you could figure out dhcp for it... I still haven't tried to get my to use DHCP
[06:40] <Kamion> travail101: we already have a package in universe
[06:40] <Kamion> it's a question of promoting it, if it works and is supportable
[06:41] <travail101> Kamion, but a downloadable package does no good without internet
[06:41] <Kamion>   * New upstream prerelease (Closes: #269678)
[06:41] <Kamion>  -- Bradley Bell<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:42:48 -0700
[06:41] <T-Bone> heya!
[06:41] <Kamion> travail101: er, "promoting it" => putting it on the CD
[06:41] <travail101> oh
[06:41] <Kamion> travail101: you are preaching to the choir ;)
[06:41] <travail101> lol
[06:42] <Kamion> boot with normal wireless PCMCIA card, download linux-wlan-ng.deb, remove normal wireless card, insert USB stick ...
[06:43] <Kamion> in fact this USB stick doubles as a disk and a wireless device, so I could also put the .deb on the disk
[06:44] <travail101> i should learn more about scripting, and hotplug/coldplug
[06:44] <travail101> how do you make the system broadcast for DHCP in the background?
[06:44] <travail101> i want that in my Gentoo system...
[06:44] <travail101> so it doesn't stop the boot process just to find out I'm not plugged into the LAN
[06:45] <travail101> a minute later
[06:45] <jdub> thom: around?
[06:45] <thom> jdub: ya
[06:45] <schweeb> travail101: that's more of a #ubuntu question
[06:46] <jdub> thom: so the ff theme stuff, you planning to do that for 1.0.1 upload?
[06:46] <travail101> is it?
[06:46] <thom> which bits?
[06:46] <jdub> thom: (not kill default theme, etc)
[06:46] <travail101> it's... kinda a development question no... only devs should no how to set it up
[06:46] <jdub> thom: (or not display default theme credits)
[06:46] <thom> jdub: oh, right
[06:46] <thom> yeah
[06:47] <jdub> thom: so, i really think the industrial theme is better
[06:47] <jdub> thom: the icons are much sexier, better coverage, etc.
[06:47] <thom> i *really* don't
[06:47] <thom> i'll look at using the icons
[06:47] <jdub> thom: and it does use the gtk theme
[06:47] <jdub> i don't get which bits you don't like
[06:47] <jdub> it's basically good gtk+ theme usage and nicer icons
[06:48] <jdub> it actually looks HIGgy
[06:48] <lamont> pitti: btw, it's not clear on the keyboard chooser whether or not one should hit shift, stick to only unshifted keys, or what...
[06:48] <pitti> lamont: right. smurfix?
[06:49] <smurfix> You should hit the key which has one of the symbols displayed.
[06:49] <smurfix> It'll complain about shift keys (I should probably teach it not to).
[06:50] <thom> i'll try it again
[06:50] <jdub> thom: let me know what is arse :-)
[06:50] <lamont> pitti: oops... er. smurfix
[06:50] <smurfix> lamont: ;-)
[06:51] <travail101> well apparently it's a mystery because no one ever knows how to do it... not in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-devel, #gentoo... maybe i'll try #knoppix...
[06:52] <lamont> travail101: my laptop just checks to see if it's plugged in before it tries to get an IP
[06:53] <smurfix> Uploading >1 Mbit/sec right now. Cool, lots of bandwidth left here.
[06:53] <lamont> iface eth0 inet dhcp
[06:53] <lamont>         pre-up mii-tool eth0 | grep -q 'link ok'
[06:53] <seb128> thom: around ?
[06:54] <thom> seb128: my eyes are square, but the rest of me is round, yes
[06:54] <travail101> lamont, hmm... well how do you do that then?
[06:54] <seb128> thom: we want to quick mozilla to universe, right ?
[06:54] <travail101> lamont, in a script?
[06:54] <thom> seb128: i'd love to; not sure if we can for hoary
[06:54] <lamont> travail101: in /etc/network/interfaces
[06:55] <lamont> travail101: lets move to #ubuntu
[06:55] <thom> seb128: i guess evo is the biggest blocker
[06:55] <seb128> thom: looking to build evo with it
[06:55] <Kamion> I'm rather surprised that works
[06:55] <thom> seb128: can't you make the ximian folk use gnutls? ;-)
[06:55] <Kamion> seb128: pitti surveyed -users, we decided we'd leave it in main for hoary
[06:56] <seb128> thom: the issue is that it uses heimdal-dev and firefox uses libkrb5-dev ...
[06:56] <seb128> Kamion: k
[06:56] <thom> oh, cripes
[06:56] <seb128> both conflict, so we need to change one ...
[06:57] <seb128> any idea on which one is better to pick ?
[06:57] <seb128> jbailey: here ?
[06:58] <thom> seb128: none at all
[06:58] <seb128> k
[06:58] <seb128> jbailey has some ideas on that IIRC
[06:58] <thom> i suspect changing firefox to heimdal is saner, but i really don't know
[06:59] <seb128> anybody with an opinion on that ? jdub ?
[06:59] <jbailey> seb128: Eh?
[06:59] <seb128> jbailey: read the log :p
[06:59] <seb128> jbailey: I'm sure you have an idea on that :)
[06:59] <jbailey> On kerberos versus heimdal?
[07:00] <seb128> yep
[07:00] <jdub> seb128: no opinion here.
[07:00] <jbailey> Opinion yes, raw fact based "this is the right way", no.
[07:00] <Kamion> sabdfl: hooray, report on ubuntu-users that the IPW2100 kill switch was detected during install
[07:00] <seb128> either way we should build evo and firefox with the same
[07:00] <jbailey> My experiences with heimdal were not good, and I've deployed krb5 in alot of places.
[07:00] <jbailey> debian-edu uses krb all over the place.
[07:01] <jbailey> Might make the most sense to match what they have.
[07:01] <seb128> k, so rather krb
[07:01] <seb128> thanks
[07:01] <sabdfl> Kamion: that's worth all the beer i can buy you on the 6th
[07:02] <Kamion> sabdfl: ubuntu-devel, rather; http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005379.html
[07:04] <sabdfl> HE WANTS THE NEKKID PEOPLE BACK!
[07:04] <Kamion> I should be careful about giving you URLs ;)
[07:04] <jdub> time for jdub|tv adult edition then?
[07:04] <Kamion> noooooooooo
[07:05] <maswan> yay nekkid people! :)
[07:05] <maswan> jdub: ass.mpeg? :)
[07:05] <jdub> don't have one of those
[07:05] <jdub> but i have a pantsoff.mpeg ;)
[07:05] <dholbach> hehe
[07:06] <jdub> www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/pantsoff.mpeg
[07:06] <Kamion> oh, wow, GNOME does the one nifty-UI-thing about Windows I always liked
[07:06] <maswan> jdub: oh? ass.mpeg was the name I got mmarker's ass signing. :)
[07:06] <maswan> +of
[07:06] <Kamion> drag from file manager into terminal, path gets pasted into terminal
[07:06] <lamont> hrm... damn gstreamer
[07:06] <jdub> i haven't been signed yet
[07:06] <jdub> though i signed george
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: we love bling terminal crack
[07:07] <maswan> well, there's a theme for the release party? or kickoff?
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: you ever used skey stuff with ssh?
[07:07] <Kamion> jdub: no
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: turns out that was red hat's vpn solution for a long time
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: so g-t has a dingus clicky thing and entry dialogue for skey
[07:07] <jdub> craaaaaaaack
[07:08] <jbailey> seb128: <stockholm> i am useing MIT now, since it is nicely integrated with AFS, and Sam is developer in both effords and is pretty accessible and helpfull
[07:08] <Kamion> jdub: geez
[07:08] <jdub> every now and then someone suggests removing it
[07:08] <amu> sabdfl: oh no x stuff anymore? we are planning a monthly kubuntu-calendar, something like http://www.kulma.org/linux/kde/kone.php?categ=kubuntu&kuva=konqi_together_blue.jpg
[07:08] <jdub> and a thousand voices cry out in anguish
[07:08] <jdub> all wearing red fedoras ;)
[07:09] <jdub> amu: do it! :)
[07:09] <torkel> jbailey: on the other hand arla (the other afs) works better with heimdal
[07:09] <thom> jdub: have you seen Terminal.app ? File/Connect To Server/SSH -> list of servers broadcasting mdns ssh details
[07:09] <jdub> amu: sabdfl mentioned those to me the other night
[07:09] <Mithrandir> amu: nekkid dragons!
[07:09] <seb128> jbailey: k, thanks
[07:09] <sabdfl> amu: those are excellent :-)
[07:09] <jdub> amu: hey, we should swap notes on how to make calendar images available for each desktop
[07:10] <amu> yeah that cool stuff :) i like the idea too much
[07:10] <sivang> sabdfl: I'd love for the nakkid people to come back :)
[07:10] <jdub> amu: for gnome, you just need an xml file in the right dir
[07:10] <jdub> sivang: nakkid as in knackered? :)
[07:10] <jbailey> torkel: There I'm just quoting why debian-edu has been going with mit.
[07:10] <Riddell> jdub: and it automatically uses that background?
[07:10] <sabdfl> ask jdub he has all the original images and gets to make the monthly selection
[07:11] <amu> jdub: okido :) asap 3.4 is in i've little more time for those things
[07:11] <dholbach> seb128: only one balsa-old-gtkhtml-crack left on the list ;-)
[07:11] <trulux> pitti: hey Martin
[07:11] <trulux> pitti: how's going there?
[07:11] <jbailey> torkel: Since they're probably the biggest user of kerberos in the Debian space, I'd like to match what they do in the absence of any of pulling reason to go one way or the other.
[07:11] <jdub> Riddell: if you've specifically chosen the 'monthly' background, which is kind of like an alias
[07:11] <jdub> amu: ok, cool
[07:12] <jdub> Riddell: so if you look at ubuntu-calendar-march
[07:12] <jdub> Riddell: there's two images and one xml file
[07:12] <jdub> the xml file describes the images and how they're used as the background
[07:12] <torkel> jbailey: I know, I was just raising my voice for the other camp :-)
[07:12] <jdub> ubuntu-calendar includes one xml file, which defines the monthly calendar
[07:13] <jdub> which points to symlinks
[07:13] <jdub> to the current one
[07:13] <seb128> dholbach: cool
[07:13] <dholbach> jdub: gnome-bluetooth uploaded too
[07:14] <jdub> Riddell: if we can do something similar for kde, or at least symlink them into a default backgrounds directory or something, that'd be rad.
[07:14] <jdub> dholbach: awesome, thanks!
[07:14] <dholbach> jdub: de rien
[07:14] <jdub> we'll have to do a MOTU cheer at UDU
[07:14] <dholbach> YEAH :-)
[07:14] <amu> Riddell: you know basse? probably he can create a first background for kubuntu? it will rock :)
[07:14] <Riddell> amu: yep
[07:14] <torkel> jbailey: both heimdal and MIT krb are borken in differnt ways, so I guess the best thing is to do a random pick between them, and if it works stay with it ;-)
[07:14] <Kamion> travail101: hmm. so how am I supposed to bring this interface up again? it's hanging on DHCP here
[07:15] <Riddell> jdub: how does the ubuntu-calendar.jpg symlink get made?
[07:15] <jdub> Riddell: that's in ubuntu-calendar
[07:15] <jbailey> torkel: Yup.  And at least just pick one. =)
[07:16] <torkel> jbailey: yeah
[07:16] <Riddell> jdub: ah, and ubuntu-calander gets updated each month with new symlinks and new depends.  sorted.
[07:16] <travail101> Kamion, I've never tried it with DHCP
[07:16] <jdub> Riddell: if i integrate the required kde changes into u-c, i can tidy up my calendar package build scripts so we can all use them
[07:17] <amu> jdub: good idea
[07:18] <Riddell> jdub: KDE just uses images and .desktop files in /usr/share/wallpaper
[07:19] <jdub> ah yes, the universal metadata solution ;)
[07:19] <travail101> Kamion, after loading the modules I run these 4 things
[07:20] <travail101> wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable
[07:20] <travail101> wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_autojoin ssid=SMC authtype=opensystem
[07:20] <travail101> ifconfig wlan0 <IP_ADDRESS> netmask <IP_ADDRESS> broadcast <IP_ADDRESS>
[07:20] <travail101> route add default gw <IP_ADDRESS>
[07:20] <jdub> can you clag me one of the .desktop files?
[07:20] <Kamion> travail101: DHCP isn't really relevant, no static config either
[07:20] <Kamion> travail101: oh, ok, I'll try that
[07:21] <jon1012> (there is an issue in the last gnome vfs update I think... :-/)
[07:21] <travail101> Kamion, and of course, edit to your network... I don't know what the command line stuff is for setting a WEP key i haven't set WEP up yet on my network
[07:21] <Kamion> I don't believe in WEP; anyone who wants to drive up to my house and use my network is welcome to, and if they abuse it I can go out and beat them up
[07:21] <Kamion> :-)
[07:21] <jon1012> (since loading of an URI into a pixbuf using either gnomeui functions or program functions (in ghtumb or appliworks) doesn't work anymore)
[07:22] <Mithrandir> I tend to just block them in the router, but else same policy.  Works fine
[07:22] <Riddell> jdub: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/All-Good-People-1.jpg.desktop
[07:22] <jdub> Kamion: the cops would have a field day with that one
[07:22] <T-Bone> hey Mithrandir ! Wassup? :)
[07:22] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: dinner. :)
[07:22] <travail101> Kamion, that's very... humanitarian of you ;)
[07:23] <jdub> Riddell: thansk
[07:23] <travail101> share alike right
[07:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: damn ;)
[07:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: have a good one then :)
[07:23] <jdub> Riddell: are there any other attributes, such as background colour, whether to stretch or not, etc?
[07:23] <jdub> Riddell: a doc reference would be uber special
[07:23] <travail101> it's less dangerous on linux networks anyway, cuz the average dude driving by wouldn't be able to screw with anything on your system... they'd just be able to surf the web and download stuff
[07:24] <mdz> morning
[07:24] <Kamion> aha, there it goes
[07:24] <travail101> Kamion, working?
[07:24] <Kamion> jdub: ok, linux-wlan-ng works, just takes a bit of hacking
[07:24] <Kamion> needs better integration, but a wiki page would probably suffice for the time being
[07:25] <travail101> Kamion, I added those 4 lines to my startup script supposedly their own Scripts do all that work, but they don't work for me or I just don't know how to use them
[07:25] <mdz> aw, no slashdotting?
[07:25] <Kamion> travail101: no can do on a live cd ;)
[07:25] <sabdfl> hey mdz
[07:25] <zul> mdz: its not even on the main page
[07:25] <jdub> Riddell: also, does kde store the .desktop or the image as configuration?
[07:26] <Riddell> jdub: how do you mean?
[07:26] <travail101> Kamion, well no... a user-input script would work on a liveCD though, hotplug can load the drives, the script can tell it the IPs and turn on the device
[07:27] <travail101> Kamion, a script burried out of site in either the panel menu... or even loading a console
[07:27] <mdz> zul: it's not even on the linux page
[07:27] <jdub> Riddell: what does the configuration setting store, a reference to the .desktop file, or to the image?
[07:27] <travail101> and typing linux-wlan-ng-setup
[07:27] <Kamion> travail101: much, much better to make it automatically worked when plugged in
[07:27] <Riddell> jdub: oh, to the image
[07:27] <Kamion> s/worked/work/
[07:28] <Kamion> in this day and age there's no justification for writing a setup script but not going the extra mile and making it hotplugged
[07:28] <jdub> Riddell: weird! gnome does the same thing. kinda bongtastic.
[07:28] <travail101> Kamion, better yes... but you need to figure out DHCP for that
[07:28] <travail101> oh you mean making the setup script automatically start?
[07:28] <Riddell> jdub: I posted to xdg about a wallpaper standard but thos wasn't interested so it didn't go anywhere
[07:28] <Kamion> travail101: yes
[07:28] <travail101> not automatigically configure?
[07:29] <Kamion> travail101: DHCP really should not be remotely hard
[07:29] <Kamion> travail101: it's at a higher layer
[07:29] <travail101> ah, ok, well yes do that then
[07:29] <Kamion> there is no reason why static configuration should work and DHCP not
[07:29] <travail101> and when you get these little scripts done, email them to me so I can use them in my Gentoo
[07:29] <Kamion> I'd rather put them in Ubuntu :P
[07:29] <jdub> Riddell: hrm, can't find any info about extra attributes in google; know of any docs?
[07:29] <travail101> Kamion, can't you do both... Ubuntu, my inbox...
[07:30] <travail101> I want them in Ubuntu live also
[07:30] <Kamion> you can grab it from Ubuntu :)
[07:30] <travail101> but only so I can scrap knoppix
[07:30] <Kamion> I don't plan to do this particularly soon, I have many other things to do
[07:30] <Riddell> jdub: what sort of extra attributes?
[07:31] <jdub> Riddell: whether the image is stretched or centred, background colours, etc.
[07:31] <wasabi__> So what's the word on ifplug or similar?
[07:31] <Riddell> jdub: there are none, kcontrol takes a wild guess based on the image size but otherwise uses whatever the person tells it to
[07:31] <wasabi__> I had heard some rumblings of using that by defaul.t
[07:32] <travail101> Kamion, oh btw, the first two lines I would imagine would need to be done before try dhcp...
[07:32] <Kamion> wow, this USB stick gets hot when used as wireless
[07:32] <schweeb> wasabi__: I'm a fan of laptop-net myself
[07:32] <Kamion> travail101: yeah
[07:32] <wasabi__> And, as I sit here, waiting for my network interfaces to not configure, I am curious. ;)
[07:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: how are your torrents doing?
[07:32] <Kamion> travail101: but the linux-wlan-ng scripts already do those
[07:32] <travail101> Kamion, so have you tried DHCP yet?
[07:32] <travail101> Kamion, oh... mine dont...
[07:32] <travail101> but yes these wireless sticks do get hot
[07:32] <Kamion> I did, but I was a muppet and tried 'dhclient eth0' I think, which is obviously wrong
[07:32] <travail101> hahaha
[07:33] <travail101> good job
[07:33] <Kamion> and then shut down before thinking about it
[07:33] <jdub> Riddell: ok, thanks
[07:33] <Kamion> booting up the live CD again now
[07:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: unsure as I went home and forgot to screen them.  When I left about one hour ago, I was pushing ~1.5MB/sec
[07:34] <jdub> Riddell: what are the different ImageTypes?
[07:35] <Riddell> jdub: pixmap or scaleable
[07:35] <_d4vid> hi all
[07:35] <jdub> ala svg
[07:35] <Riddell> jdub: pixmap or scalaable
[07:35] <Riddell> scalable I seem to have spelt it
[07:36] <jdub> why the distinction?
[07:36] <Riddell> jdub: not everyone has librsvg support compiled in
[07:36] <jdub> ah, so it won't show scalable;
[07:36] <Riddell> jdub: if you don't have the support no
[07:36] <jdub> but shouldn't the backgrounds thingy sort that out by mimetype?
[07:36] <jdub> anyway
[07:36] <jdub> this looks good
[07:37] <jdub> i will do another -march package with the kde metadata
[07:37] <jdub> for you to test
[07:37] <Riddell> jdub: ubercool
[07:37] <schweeb> tseng: around?
[07:37] <tseng> yes
[07:37] <Kamion> oh, that -march, not the gcc option
[07:38] <schweeb> tseng: you pkg monodoc too?
[07:38] <tseng> sortof?
[07:38] <tseng> i take what the debian mono team gives me most of the time
[07:39] <T-Bone> elmo: bdale just uplaoded a new version of efibootmgr, I suppose you just need to sync it into Ubuntu, or do I need to upload it separately? It fixes a bug WRT EFI specs, fwiw
[07:39] <tseng> and lamont does magic voodoo to sideport it
[07:39] <schweeb> tseng: monodoc-browser needs some deps added... for the gtk and glade cil pkgs
[07:39] <travail101> maybe I should start making packages for other systems on my gentoo =P
[07:39] <tseng> is it fixed in debian?
[07:39] <tseng> do you have a fix?
[07:39] <tseng> etc.
[07:39] <jon1012> Just a proposal, would it be possible to make an human-like .gtkrc for gtk 1.x apps ?
[07:39] <travail101> Kamion, did it work with DHCP this time?
[07:40] <schweeb> tseng: I'll check debian... gimme a sec
[07:40] <tseng> thanks
[07:40] <lamont> tseng: what magic?  I should only have to do that to break the cyclical build-dep... which hopefully _GOES_AWAY_ once done the first time...
[07:40] <tseng> yeah
[07:40] <lamont> that is, if revision X can't build X+1, then it's a bug in X+1...
[07:40] <tseng> well, 1.1.x will be different
[07:41] <tseng> mcs + mono are one source package
[07:41] <lamont> that'll helpo
[07:41] <tseng> and it bootstraps itself
[07:41] <travail101> Kamion, do you have your wireless setup with DHCP on your system?
[07:41] <schweeb> tseng: nope, debian doesn't have those deps either
[07:41] <lamont> the issue comes in when someone adds a new feature to a language, and then immediately uses it in the source that builds the binary that understands the new feature...
[07:42] <schweeb> tseng: libgtk-cil libgtk2.0-cil libglade-cil libglade2.0-cil
[07:42] <dholbach> is there a possibility to kick a just uploaded package? i typed 0.1.4ubuntu1 instead of 0.1-4ubuntu1 *arg*
[07:43] <schweeb> unsure as to whether there's a diff between the libxxx and libxxx2.0
[07:43] <lamont> dholbach: ouch
[07:43] <lamont> and the answer is pretty much 'no'
[07:44] <schweeb> tseng: also, I'd recommend adding those as recommends or suggested on mono itself
[07:44] <tseng> mono suggests gtk-sharp?
[07:44] <tseng> not really..
[07:44] <jdub> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/ubuntu-calendar-march_5.03_all.deb
[07:44] <mdz> T-Bone: if it's in Debian, it can be synched
[07:45] <schweeb> tseng: makes sense to me *shrug* most people who want mono will want gtk on ubuntu...
[07:45] <T-Bone> mdz: it's just been uploaded (eg 5' ago)
[07:45] <T-Bone> mdz: (in debian, that is)
[07:45] <Kamion> travail101: haven't quite checked yet
[07:45] <Kamion> travail101: I use DHCP everywhere
[07:45] <mdz> T-Bone: it can be synched once it's in the Debian archive
[07:45] <tseng> schweeb: meh, so does libc6 recommend gtk+? it doesnt follow
[07:45] <T-Bone> mdz: roger that. I'll poke around when that happens
[07:45] <schweeb> alright, fine then
[07:46] <lamont> T-Bone: and the sync is a request to elmo/jdub/mdz explaining why
[07:46] <lamont> s/request/email request/
[07:46] <mdz> since it's ia64-specific I wont't be picky
[07:46] <T-Bone> lamont: got it
[07:46] <elmo> dholbach: I removed it - but generally lamont is right, the answer is you can't
[07:46] <T-Bone> mdz: i hoped so :)
[07:46] <lamont> mdz: true enough
[07:46] <lamont> dholbach: you owe elmo dinner
[07:46] <dholbach> elmo: oh thank you very much
[07:46] <T-Bone> lol, at least :)
[07:46] <tseng> speaking of syncing, elmo could you please sync f-spot 0.0.10 at your convenience?
[07:46] <travail101> Kamion, hmm... I might be overlooking something very obvious, but i can't get the wlan-ng scripts to do anything usefull but load the driver, which hot plug does fine
[07:47] <elmo> tseng: done
[07:47] <tseng> thanks :)
[07:47] <seb128> elmo: poppler in NEW
[07:48] <lamont> dholbach: to put it more accurately, if you can beg/plead before cron.hourly gets to it, and elmo has time, then he can remove it with very little pain.  The issue is that cron.hourly runs every 5 minutes, and that really means you have an average of 2.5 min to run in circles, screaming and shouting
[07:48] <elmo> seb128: yeah, I'm test-building all the stuff in NEW now
[07:48] <schweeb> tseng: but as far as I can tell, there's no virtual package that installs the commonly used -cils that mono is generally distributed with
[07:48] <lamont> once cron.hourly runs, it's much more annoying and painful
[07:48] <dholbach> lamont: that's what i thought
[07:48] <seb128> elmo: k, thanks
[07:48] <lamont> and risky
[07:48] <tseng> schweeb: they are a seperate package
[07:48] <dholbach> lamont: i already had a look for a new upstream 0.1.5 version or something :-)
[07:48] <tseng> why would there be a virtual, you need granular depends
[07:49] <Riddell> jdub: works good
[07:49] <tseng> I understand your bug, I will look at it
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: it has just hit unstable (efibootmgr): http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/efibootmgr/news/1.html
[07:49] <Riddell> jdub: going to do a new ubuntu-calendar package too?
[07:49] <lamont> dholbach: yeah, it's a bitch to have to go plead with upstream for a really illogical next-version number... :-)
[07:49] <tseng> as far as further changes schweeb.. not right now
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: err no
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: forget what i said
[07:49] <dholbach> lamont: hehe... :)
[07:49] <lamont> elmo: speaking of test builds..... it's past wed... :-)
[07:49] <dholbach> lamont: and this 1:<version>-stuff looks damn ugly too
[07:50] <lamont> dholbach: I loathe epocs
[07:50] <schweeb> tseng: consider this situation... someone has an app that says it requires glade sharp... do a search on "glade sharp" you get nothing
[07:50] <dholbach> lamont, elmo: learnt my lesson - thanks
[07:50] <dholbach> ok need to run to she shop... brb
[07:50] <schweeb> tseng: don't care if it makes hoary or not... just suggesting
[07:51] <tseng> its in apt-cache search libglade
[07:51] <schweeb> yes yes, I know that works
[07:52] <tseng> if someone is building packages, or from source, they should be sufficiently clued
[07:52] <tseng> or headed there fast
[07:52] <tseng> its not a normal ubuntu user use case
[07:52] <tseng> sorry, dont mean to argue at length about it im more interested in the real bug
[07:53] <schweeb> understood
[07:53] <jdub> Riddell: wasn't planning to upload these
[07:53] <tseng> hey thats probably it
[07:53] <tseng> Depends: for monodoc-browser doesnt roll in ${net:Depends}
[07:53] <jdub> Riddell: u-c is just a variation on the theme ;)
[07:53] <tseng> er, it does looking at wrong one
[07:54] <Kamion> travail101: DHCP works just fine, just do 'dhclient wlan0'
[07:55] <jdub> Riddell: actually, i will. in hoary only though.
[07:55] <travail101> Kamion, thanx
[07:55] <travail101> I'm gonna reboot at see if I can get this stuff to act the way I like it
[07:55] <mjg59> fabbione: Hello?
[07:56] <schweeb> tseng: I suppose I'll argue my point with you in about a month, after release...I think it'd be nice for those pkgs to at least include the name "sharp" somewhere in them, seeing as that's what most users will think to apt-cache search for, as it's the real name of the assembly
[07:56] <amu> Kamion: whats about suspend with the usb-wlan on ppc? it resumes also?
[07:57] <elmo> mdz: okay to do seed syncage type stuff again?
[07:58] <mdz> elmo: yeah, what's pending?
[07:58] <mdz> gv was the only thing left the last time I looked
[07:58] <mdz> polypaudio is probably there now
[08:01] <mdz> jdub: do you have any post-preview uploads pending?  (e.g., the cursors thing)
[08:01] <jdub> yep
[08:02] <Kamion> ok, linux-wlan-ng works fine if I put this in /etc/network/interfaces:
[08:02] <Kamion> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[08:02] <Kamion>         wireless_essid Heresy
[08:02] <elmo> polypaudio-clients                        | polypaudio                      | Supported seed
[08:02] <Kamion>         wireless_mode managed
[08:02] <Kamion> and then 'ifup wlan0'
[08:03] <Kamion> I think we should put linux-wlan-ng in ship
[08:03] <pitti> Kamion: that really works now? last time I tried it didn't; cool
[08:03] <elmo> which is err, odd, since it's not
[08:03] <Kamion> amu: suspend-to-ram doesn't work on the test system; I'll try it on the powerbook later
[08:04] <amu> Kamion: thx, would be interessting
[08:05] <mroth> has preview been slashdotted yet?
[08:07] <T-Bone> elmo/mdz: efibootmgr 0.5.1-1 has hit the archive.
[08:08] <mdz> elmo: it's in kubuntu/supported, fixing
[08:08] <mdz> mroth: no
[08:09] <mroth> amazing
[08:09] <mdz> elmo: fixed
[08:09] <mroth> it'll be interesting to see how many downloads there are when it does
[08:10] <jdub> Riddell: same url, grab both of those u-c packages
[08:13] <mjg59> Gragh.
[08:13] <Riddell> jdub: works good
[08:13] <jdub> Riddell: cool
[08:15] <koke> mvo: I've just replied your mail
[08:15] <mvo> koke: thanks
[08:16] <koke> mvo: you can just look at http://www.amedias.org/~koke/arch/ for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:16] <koke> I'm learning arch at last!! :)
[08:16] <mvo> koke: can I just merge from it ?
[08:16] <mvo> koke: ah, join the club of arch lovers ;)
[08:16] <koke> I guess that :)
[08:17] <koke> base-0 is the same than Ross' branch, and there are three patches, which are the whole fix :)
[08:18] <koke> ubuntu-doc $ LC_ALL=C xml2po  -o foo.pot release-notes.xml
[08:18] <koke> Violacin de segmento
[08:18] <koke> This is very strange
[08:19] <koke> first, the error translated, and then a python script saying segmentation fault without a trace
[08:19] <koke> any python guru could give me some light?? :)
[08:19] <jdub> koke: are you using cvs g-d-u?
[08:19] <koke> jdub: yes
[08:19] <koke> it's the same with the hoary one or the cvs one
[08:19] <jdub> well, that's my troubleshooting help over ;)
[08:19] <koke> :D
[08:21] <koke> jdub: do you know the nick of Danilo egan at irc.gnome.org?
[08:23] <jdub> danilo usually, i think
[08:23] <koke> hmm, then he's not online :)
[08:25] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I think you owe me beer.
[08:25] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: look at nekkid:~root/lib32gcc1*deb
[08:27] <HiddenWolf> ugh, pity we didn't get slashdotted
[08:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: uploading new ia32-libs which should fix ooo on ia64; sounds good?
[08:28] <Mithrandir> it shouldn't change anything on amd64
[08:28] <mdz> Mithrandir: sure
[08:29] <Kamion> hooray
[08:29] <Kamion> ooo-amd64 too?
[08:29] <mvo> koke: I merged your tree, thanks
[08:29] <koke> great :))
[08:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ooo-amd64 is already working.
[08:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: needs ia64 added to Architecture though I thought?
[08:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: already there.
[08:30] <mdz> ooo-amd64 is already building on ia64?
[08:30] <Mithrandir> mdz: ought to work fine now.
[08:30] <Kamion> +Architecture: amd64
[08:30] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry, I think I misunderstood
[08:30] <Kamion> not in the archive yet, anyway
[08:31] <Mithrandir> yeah, ooo-amd64 should build fine now, it just needs an upload with that fix.
[08:31] <T-Bone> w00t!!!
[08:31] <koke> are there any plans on a bazaar gui at this moment??
[08:31] <T-Bone> dpkg: error processing lib32gcc1_3.4.2-2ubuntu1_ia64.deb (--install):
[08:31] <T-Bone>  trying to overwrite `/lib/libgcc_s.so.1', which is also in package libgcc1
[08:31] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: same player shoot again? :)
[08:31] <mdz> koke: I don't thinnk so, but you can ask on #bazaar
[08:32] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: heh, seems like that has to go to lib32, then
[08:32] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: your call :)
[08:32] <Kamion> ~/wg 25
[08:32] <Kamion> oops
[08:37] <travail101> Kamion, thanx, i got it working now =D
[08:37] <Kamion> travail101: you missed a later comment from me
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion> ok, linux-wlan-ng works fine if I put this in /etc/network/interfaces:
[08:37] <travail101> what was it?
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion>         wireless_mode managed
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion> and then 'ifup wlan0'
[08:38] <Kamion> you might have to set 'wireless_essid YOURESSID' too
[08:38] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: ok, lib32gcc1 installed fine now, want to test ooo?
[08:38] <travail101> hmm... I don't know where I would put that in a Gentoo system though, there is no /etc/network/
[08:38] <Kamion> but basically it all works with the standard ifupdown tools with a little nudging
[08:38] <Kamion> travail101: wouldn't work on Gentoo, that's a Debian-and-derivatives thing
[08:38] <travail101> so do you have the LiveCD autodetecting and running DHCP now?
[08:39] <Kamion> no because the package is not in the live CD
[08:39] <travail101> Kamion, there's got to be an equivilent I can do
[08:39] <Kamion> travail101: I neither know nor particularly care about Gentoo, sorry
[08:39] <lamont> travail101: and someone in #gentoo would be able to answer that
[08:39] <Kamion> I cannot help you
[08:39] <travail101> yeah, I'm already asking #gentoo
[08:40] <travail101> thanx for the info though
[08:42] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: Ctrl+G him :P
[08:42] <Mithrandir> I could boot his ia64 and see if he notices
[08:42] <Mithrandir> or just power it down
[08:42] <Treenaks> LOL
[08:42] <zul> Mithrandir: power it down he wont notice it :)
[08:43] <Treenaks> ping -f -b <broadcast address>
[08:43] <Treenaks> he'll notice that..
[08:43] <Mithrandir> his screensaver is running, though
[08:44] <zul> do it...give in to peer pressure
[08:45] <Mithrandir> I'll rather just download and build ooo-amd64
[08:45] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: nice -n -20 debuild -S ?
[08:45] <Treenaks> uh
[08:45] <Treenaks> not -S of course
[08:45] <shaya> is http://archive.ubuntu.com down?
[08:45] <Treenaks> shaya: no, just busy
[08:46] <Mithrandir> I need to download the 213MB orig.tar.gz first
[08:46] <mvo> mdz: permission to upload quagga (postinst changed permissions) and zsh (tab-completion for makefiles) ?
[08:47] <elmo> shaya: use us.archive.ubuntu.com
[08:48] <shaya> that works
[08:51] <elmo> haggai: dude
[09:05] <sabdfl> mdz: around?
[09:07] <mako> mdz: it sounded like he was ready to collapse an hour or so ago
[09:07] <mako> sabdfl: ^^
[09:10] <mdz> mvo: yes, thanks
[09:12] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: sorry, i was playing guitar and training piano :)
[09:13] <mvo> mdz: is it ok to ask for more today? or should we rather do it tomorrow so that you can have a bit rest today?
[09:13] <mdz> mvo: I will be here for some time yet, feel free to ask about anything
[09:14] <sivang> jdub: yeah, naked people like you said :)
[09:14] <mvo> mdz: I would like to ask for the python-apt change. it's available for review on http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/review/python-apt/python-apt.diff
[09:15] <sivang> mdz: are we back to bug fix frenzy ? :-)
[09:15] <mdz> mvo: that's fine; feel free to do a release and send me info about merging it in arch
[09:15] <mvo> mdz: great thanks :)
[09:15] <T-Bone> wowowowow
[09:15] <mdz> sivang: we are being a bit cautious because a lot of people will be upgrading, but yes, we are fixing normal bugs again
[09:15] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: does it work?
[09:15] <T-Bone> all packages installed fine
[09:16] <T-Bone> lessee how it *works*
[09:17] <sivang> mdz: ok, good to know
[09:17] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: what's your favorite beer?? I'll make sure to pack a full pack of it ;)
[09:17] <sivang> T-Bone: wow
[09:17] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: it works?  Cool. :)
[09:18] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I'll grab the sources, make sure it still works correctly on amd64 and upload
[09:18] <Treenaks> T-Bone: now type something :P
[09:18] <zul> crashy crashy
[09:18] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: cool! What about the ooffice package? It needs proper renaming i think
[09:18] <T-Bone> because apt-get ooffice-amd64 on an ia64 box ain't quite logical :)
[09:18] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: it's just the source package
[09:19] <T-Bone> true
[09:19] <HiddenWolf> T-bone: if you make it work, you get a cookie! :)
[09:19] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: it's a tad slow over your DSL
[09:19] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: so it's fine to let it named that way?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> yeah, should be just fine
[09:19] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: gotta be kidding?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> seems to work fine
[09:19] <Mithrandir> AA fonts and everything
[09:19] <Nafallo> I can't add backgrounds to the change background app. what should I file a bug/see if a bug is filled against?
[09:20] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: i see ~13kB/s outgoing, which is 20% of what that line can do...
[09:20] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I've quit it now
[09:21] <Mithrandir> it's also that X over long-distance networks suck due to latency
[09:21] <T-Bone> lol, you tried to launch it remotely??:)
[09:21] <T-Bone> s/and/ood/
[09:21] <Mithrandir> yeah, worked just fine
[09:22] <Mithrandir> 'cept it was dog slow
[09:22] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: that's quite strange, i've been running remote XoverSSH from many machines on my network to the outside and it worked fine. Must be your link sucking :)
[09:22] <T-Bone> anyway
[09:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: so you upload ia32-libs, and I prepare something for ooffice-amd64?
[09:23] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: latency's usually the killer.
[09:23] <T-Bone> heh
[09:23] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I wonder if OOO-amd64 should possibly be updated to the latest i386 version
[09:23] <T-Bone> i'm stuck to 30ms per DSL design
[09:24] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: no clue
[09:24] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: it's actually a freakin good news that it works
[09:24] <T-Bone> i'll roll up something asap so that kamion can sort out the seed stuff.
[09:24] <T-Bone> i'll check if it fixes the firefox locales bug as well
[09:25] <T-Bone> this is *just* awesome, you quite unblocked me :)
[09:25] <Mithrandir> 6762 could be fixed, I think.
[09:26] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ok, i'll look in a short while. But first... Dinner! :)
[09:26] <T-Bone> brb
[09:28] <Nafallo> aha. my error seems to be #5266, never mind.
[09:37] <Seveas> HiddenWolf, serious? ;)
[09:40] <Treenaks> no way!
[09:41] <daniels> svenl: yes, xresprobe is worth fixing
[09:46] <HiddenWolf> it'd be amusing to keep stats on the server/bandwith load, and make em available somewhere. :)
[09:51] <T-Bone> sososo, let's look at this ooo-amd64-ia64 package, and this firefox issue
[09:51] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: still syncing down here
[09:52] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ok np. I'm testing install language-support-en right now
[09:54] <T-Bone> hmm so firefox still segfaults anyway
[09:54] <T-Bone> sigh
[09:56] <sivang> development meeting is stil tommorow right?
[09:57] <zul> yes
[09:57] <Mithrandir> uhm?  When tomorrow?
[09:57] <zul> as far as i know
[09:58] <sivang> Mithrandir: yes
[09:58] <sivang> Mithrandir: 1700UTC
[09:58] <T-Bone> arg
[09:58] <sivang> Mithrandir: I was just making sure it's still the same time and date :)
[09:58] <Mithrandir> urf; URL?
[09:59] <sivang> Mithrandir: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=18122
[10:00] <Mithrandir> hm, ok
[10:00] <sivang> night all
[10:02] <T-Bone>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/locale-langpack/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-panel-2.0.mo', which is also in package language-pack-en
[10:03] <elmo> iz dpkg bug
[10:03] <elmo> see ml
[10:04] <T-Bone> ah yes. I've too quick at reading, didn't notice the upload *just* happened
[10:04] <T-Bone> +been
[10:06] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: wanna handle new ooo-amd64 upload? Basically all i did was adding ia64 to target archs
[10:06] <Mithrandir> sure, I'll do that
[10:07] <T-Bone> awesome
[10:07] <mdz> Kamion: around?
[10:07] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: i suppose you might want to get these changes into Debian, assuming they apply... Or else, Ubuntu will be the only one having ooo working on ia64 ;)
[10:08] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: any ETA for new packages availability (so that I can mention that in my email)?
[10:09] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I'm waiting for bdale to say _anything_ about my ia32-libs package.
[10:09] <T-Bone> ah
[10:09] <T-Bone> hmm
[10:09] <Mithrandir> I told him about it like four months ago
[10:09] <T-Bone> lemme poke him right now :)
[10:09] <Mithrandir> and asked if he wanted to take it.
[10:09] <Mithrandir> I could NMU if he prefers that
[10:10] <Mithrandir> I would prefer not to take over the package and comaintainership would be a bit silly, but I'm open to suggestions
[10:11] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: roger. Trying to get in touch with him, hold on
[10:12] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: otherwise, any ETA? Do you plan to upload today/tomorrow for instance?
[10:13] <T-Bone> (in ubuntu, that is)
[10:13] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: ia32-libs: today, ooo?  Tonight/morrow, I gues
[10:13] <Mithrandir> +s
[10:13] <T-Bone> awesome
[10:15] <T-Bone> so now, we have to kill that firefox bugs
[10:16] <T-Bone> trouble is, i haven't been able to reproduce on debian, though I could reproduce with debian debs on Ubuntu
[10:18] <zul> later
[10:19] <Kamion> mdz: yo. about to go out though, was writing very lengthy e-mail
[10:20] <mdz> Kamion: was going to ask you about that non-ascii-characters-in-fullname/username issue, since someone mentioned somethig similar in reference to preview, though I thought we had fixed it
[10:20] <mdz> Kamion: not urgent
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: hm, could be that non-ASCII characters in the full name still break some things, I don't know
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: people can still try to enter non-ASCII characters in the username; it's not presented to them by default in the installer, and the installer will reject it if they try
[10:22] <T-Bone> mdz: re 7155, looking at config help I see:
[10:22] <T-Bone>  If you are unsure how to answer this question, answer N.
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: the report on u-d was very vague; I asked for clarification
[10:22] <T-Bone> CONFIG_SECURITY_NETWORK is a bool, can't be made module...
[10:23] <lamont> Kamion: wasn't it C!=UTF8 for at least part of the issue>
[10:23] <T-Bone> now it's true CONFIG_SECURITY is also recommended "No" as well
[10:23] <Kamion> lamont: installer *should* be C.UTF-8 ...
[10:23] <lamont> yeah, but post-boot?  what does getty get?
[10:23] <Kamion> lamont: except maybe it doesn't set a valid locale for second-stage stuff that's pulled back to the first stage, which may not help
[10:23] <Kamion> lamont: dunno, I thought it was whatever's in /etc/environment but could be wrong
[10:24] <lamont> yeah -dunno here either
[10:24] <Kamion> lamont: 'sudo ps axew' suggests getty doesn't get LANG or LC_*
[10:24] <lamont> and therefore ==C?
[10:25] <Kamion> yep
[10:25] <Kamion> but since non-ASCII characters in usernames are rejected ...
[10:25] <Kamion> I guess non-ASCII stuff in passwords might cause problems
[10:25] <lamont> anywhere that crosses the UTF-8/non-UTF-8 boundary is going to have issues, yes>?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> lamont: oh, the joy.
[10:28] <lamont> anyway, off to fetch the child from school, and hit the store for some CD-R media, etc.
[10:28] <lamont> back in about 1-2 hours or so
[10:36] <dholbach> is david sedeo in here?
[10:38] <Mithrandir> lamont: when you come back -- I have some ideas, possibly crackful, for util-linux.
[10:38] <Mithrandir> lamont: if you could prod me when you're around and have a little time, I'd appreciate.
[10:41] <sivang> ogra: how many mls are you subscribed to?
[10:41] <sivang> ogra: u-d hasn't seen so much emails since I think :)
[10:42] <ogra> sivang: u-d = 45, u-u = 50
[10:42] <Kamion> mdz: it sounds to me as if he's complaining that non-ASCII characters in usernames are rejected, to which I say "good, although we could possibly improve the documentation"
[10:42] <sivang> ogra: eh :)
[10:43] <ogra> sivang: but i'm also subscribed to a lot more non ubuntu stuff....
[10:43] <sivang> ogra: I see
[10:43] <GheRivero> res
[10:49] <ogra> did anyone recognize that dholbach uploaded more then 100 packages already ?
[10:49] <tseng> I did not
[10:49] <dholbach> *blush*
[10:49] <tseng> but in that case.
[10:49] <mvo> cheers to dholbach
[10:49] <dholbach> woohoo :-)
[10:49] <ogra> called even
[10:53] <sivang> night all
[10:53] <dholbach> bye sivan!
[10:55] <ajmitch> good work, dholbach  :)
[10:55] <dholbach> thanks ajmitch :-)
[10:56] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: don't forget to close bugreports btw :)
[11:01] <GheRivero> hi! is anyone taking care of NFSv4  and kerberos stuff? which is the state of it?
[11:08] <T-Bone> thom: ?
[11:12] <T-Bone> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[11:12] <T-Bone> [Switching to Thread<PHONE_NUMBER>238620048 (LWP 19157)]
[11:12] <T-Bone> 0x2000000000136001 in js_strlen () from /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/libmozjs.so
[11:12] <T-Bone> that's what causing the firefox segfault
[11:35] <tseng> pitti: busy?
[11:35] <pitti> tseng: just with real-life issues
[11:36] <pitti> tseng: what's up?
[11:36] <tseng> pitti: im brainstorming with a bunch of people on hardened ubuntu .. pax atm
[11:36] <tseng> and we're thinking that using softmode might make sense for ubuntu
[11:36] <tseng> are you familiar with it?
[11:37] <pitti> tseng: yes, I built the -hardened kernels :-)
[11:37] <tseng> heh I know
[11:37] <pitti> tseng: but I don't really like the softmode, it spoils all the fun :-)
[11:37] <tseng> I havent looked at their config admitedly
[11:37] <tseng> well, I like having a hardmode kernel available
[11:37] <tseng> but we could sanely give softmode to everyone
[11:37] <tseng> or a larger population
[11:37] <tseng> and start marking daemons noexec
[11:38] <tseng> also, using PT_GNU_STACK will give us compatiblity with ES if we are forced to replace PaX
[11:38] <mdz> elmo: still around?
[11:38] <tseng> and avoid binutils patching to get PT_PAX_FLAGS markings for paxctl
[11:39] <pitti> tseng: so far I avoided binutils patching, yes
[11:39] <tseng> chpax works.. but its a deprecated hack
[11:39] <pitti> tseng: instead I created a linux-hardened-support package which calls chpax every now and then
[11:39] <tseng> so proper support means PT_GNU_STACK or PT_PAX_FLAGS
[11:40] <pitti> tseng: i. e. at kernel installation and X installation
[11:40] <pitti> tseng: right, but binutils patching is too intrusive
[11:40] <tseng> I'll have to look at it
[11:40] <tseng> pitti: which is why im thinking of advocating pt_gnu
[11:40] <tseng> and marking in debian/rules
[11:40] <pitti> tseng: btw, right now there are no hardened kernels, I removed them because they have this hole
[11:40] <tseng> right, I noticed that
[11:41] <pitti> tseng: and I still did not find the way to produce 2.6.11 images
[11:41] <tseng> I have a 2.6.11 tree in gentoo, but yeah.. for ubuntu will be hoary+1
[11:42] <tseng> thanks for your vote, ill keep hasing things out
[11:42] <dilinger> tseng: what's your name?
[11:42] <tseng> dilinger: Brandon Hale
[11:42] <dilinger> ah, ok
[11:43] <dilinger> i was just curious if you were one of the gentoo people i worked w/ on 2.6.10-as stuff.  guess not.
[11:43] <tseng> was it Adam Mondl?
[11:43] <tseng> or Daniel Drake
[11:43] <dilinger> daniel drake
[11:44] <tseng> I was using -as in my patchset, but there was a recurring buglet with selinux build
[11:44] <tseng> do you recall the ipv6 socket fix?
[11:45] <tseng> selinux assumes socket has ipv6 bits
[11:45] <tseng> seems fixed in 2.6.11
[11:45] <dilinger> a few
[11:45] <dilinger> there were a lot of ipv6 fixes that i skimmed over 'cause they were rather large, and i'm not all that interested in ipv6 yet
[11:46] <dilinger> skimmed over and ignored, that is
[11:46] <tseng> would be nice if 2.6.x.y project was more agressive
[11:47] <tseng> at this point im tracking that, -as, and -ac
[11:47] <dilinger> i started 2.6.11-as last night
[11:47] <tseng> =/
[11:47] <dilinger> already 6 patches on top of <IP_ADDRESS>
[11:47] <dilinger> i'm going to try and feed them to gregkh, and see what happens
[11:48] <tseng> -ac mentioned a missed secuirty patch.. and I have one more in gentoo that was never picked up
[11:48] <tseng> ill post and see if you are familiar with it
[11:48] <dilinger> i've briefly looked at -ac, but i'm trying to get 2.6.10 wrapped up, first
[11:49] <tseng> http://dev.gentoo.org/~tseng/kernel/1150_sunrpc-nfsacl.patch
[11:49] <tseng> summary is remote DoS in nfsacl
[11:51] <dilinger> hrm.  i hadn't see that
[11:51] <tseng> http://acl.bestbits.at/pipermail/acl-devel/2005-January/001816.html
[11:52] <tseng> stuff is still falling through the cracks =/
[11:52] <dilinger> alright, thanks.  any idea if -mm has it?
[11:52] <tseng> will look
[11:52] <tseng> nfsacl-return-enosys-for-rpc-programs-that-are-unavailable.patch
[11:52] <tseng>   nfsacl: Return -ENOSYS for RPC programs that are unavailable
[11:52] <dilinger> he's usually very receptive to patches; i find that to be the best way to get my stuff in
[11:53] <tseng> hm thats not it
[11:53] <dilinger> also, there's apparently a security@ address now, although i haven't used it yet
[11:53] <tseng> theres a bunch of nfsacl patches
[11:53] <tseng> none sound that promising
[11:55] <tseng> fom -ac:
[11:55] <tseng> Security
[11:55] <tseng> o	AF_ROSE security hole fix - still missing from base
[11:55] <tseng> o	Bridge failure to check kmalloc argument overflow
[11:55] <tseng> also, he doesnt document anything from vendor-sec
[11:58] <elmo> mdz: yes