[00:12] <rickspencer3> is jabber down for anyone else?
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> wow, people reporting lucid bugs already
[00:15] <chrisccoulson> almost like they are surprised that things don't work properly
[00:17] <robert_ancell> Does anyone here have the seahorse-agent crash problem from bug 429322?
[00:18] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i've not experienced that
[00:18] <chrisccoulson> what conditions seem to trigger it?
[00:19] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, I haven't worked out what causes it - I've never seen it myself and the backtrace isn't giving me many clues
[00:19] <robert_ancell> It seems reasonably common though
[00:20] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i just noticed the gazillion duplicates there
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i've never seen the crash because i don't have seahorse-plugins installed ;)
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> lol
[00:24] <chrisccoulson> i've installed it and re-enabled apport now ;)
[00:33] <rickspencer3> msg ArneGoetje hi
[00:33] <rickspencer3> heh
[07:53] <albasheers> audio or video file is played only after 10 sec  in ubuntu 9.10
[08:21] <pitti> Good morning
[08:22] <pitti> bryce: are they at least tagged in any way, so that you could ignore them?
[08:29] <baptistemm> hello
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[08:58] <seb128> good morning there
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
[08:59] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[08:59] <seb128> how are you?
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> not good this morning. my car has died!
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> so i'm stuck at home, which isn't all bad i suppose ;)
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[08:59] <seb128> I should stop autostarting my IRC in the morning it jumps everytime when connecting to wireless
[08:59] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[09:00] <seb128> what happened to your car?
[09:00] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> the auxilliary belt just snapped, but it has caused the timing belt to jump as well
[09:00] <seb128> hello pitti
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> which is not good :(
[09:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: uh, good luck!
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks pitti
[09:01] <pitti> for that matter, I need to repair the bike of my wife; back in ~45 mins or so
[09:01]  * pitti yawns
[09:01] <pitti> spent until 1:30 am to unbreak udev
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> i'm having it recovered from my house in the nnext hhour or so, but i think it is the end for my car ;)
[09:01] <seb128> pitti, starting to repair things just after breakfast, brave of you ;-)
[09:01] <pitti> heh
[09:01] <pitti> udev, bikes, it's all the same
[09:01] <seb128> pitti, you managed to fix the udev fd leak issue?
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: yep
[09:02] <seb128> you rock
[09:02] <pitti> well, fixing an fd leak is dead simple
[09:02] <pitti> finding it is the challenge :)
[09:02]  * seb128 things chrisccoulson and pitti are in a who rock the most competition
[09:02] <seb128> tackling bugs every night
[09:02] <pitti> you forgot the magical seb128!
[09:02]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:02]  * pitti hugs seb128
[09:02]  * pitti &
[09:02] <seb128> 123 bug emails from the night, not to bad, I can be done with that before 11 I think
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> 123 is not too bad
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> you can relax a bit more this morning ;)
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> right, bbl. got to go and take jo's car now to fetch all of the things i need from my car
[09:07] <mac_v> hmm , anyone know if  <albasheers> is a member of the desktop team or any other team? he drops by often and mentions something is not working
[09:13] <seb128> mac_v, I've read the nickname but he's not a known active member there
[09:14] <mac_v> ah , then he might just have been looking for help here ... need to point him the #ubuntu
[09:53] <pitti> re
[09:55] <seb128> wb pitti
[09:58] <seb128> bug inbox 0 \o/
[09:58]  * seb128 does some sru sponsoring now
[09:59] <pitti> you rock
[09:59] <seb128> pitti, that or I just spend too much time reading bug emails ;-)
[09:59] <seb128> well I've been better at spending less time on that this cycle
[10:00] <seb128> but I like to know where we stand after a stable and before starting a new cycle too
[10:00] <pitti> I hope I can spend more time on reading bugs in the lucid cycle
[10:02] <seb128> brb
[10:10] <mac_v> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/   :(
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> right, time for me to go to work now
[10:13] <seb128> re
[10:13] <seb128> karmic tages ages to boot there :-(
[10:15] <mvo> mac_v: that is indeed pretty negative :/
[10:15] <pitti> a friend of mine ranted as well already
[10:17] <seb128> mvo, what? review?
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, about?
[10:17] <mvo> seb128: the link that mac_v posted
[10:17] <andreasn> seb128: I was blown away by how fast karmic booted on my dell machine
[10:17] <seb128> mvo, I just rebooted so didn't get it
[10:17] <seb128> andreasn, ssd drive?
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: pulseaudio, policykit behaviour, and docking station handling primarily
[10:18] <mac_v> seb128: >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
[10:19] <andreasn> seb128: not sure, how do I check that?
[10:19] <seb128> andreasn, you would probably know if you had one
[10:20] <GerardT> Hi
[10:21] <seb128> hum, why does they say karmic install 2.6.28?
[10:21] <mac_v> FWIW , hardware sucks... for my hardware Karmic was so much better than Jaunty ... I'v been using Karmic since alpha2 and for me , apart for the occasional crashes, it was more stable than Jaunty final and worked even better... I guess that alpha testers who had problems  , reported the issues and the bugs were fixed... I guess it might be just that we dont have a widespread alpha tester base :(
[10:21] <GerardT> I'm using Karmic and I have installed the PPA version of empathy, Can one get cam from another MSN user even if you don't have a cam installed on your side? (This works on MSN Live)
[10:22] <seb128> GerardT, try #telepathy
[10:22] <GerardT> thanks
[10:22] <andreasn> seb128: so yeah, I think it's just a regular disk. I feel every release boots faster and faster (although this was the first time I installed ubuntu on that machine)
[10:22] <GerardT> will do
[10:22] <seb128> GerardT, we are not working on the ppa version
[10:22] <seb128> pitti, mvo: karmic has lot of issues but this article is a crap one
[10:23] <seb128> not sure where they got the linux version used wrong
[10:23] <GerardT> seb128: I installed the PPA because MSN vid call is disabled :D
[10:23] <seb128> and what sort of issue upgrades get
[10:23] <seb128> GerardT, it's disabled for a reason, it's early code and lack stability
[10:24] <GerardT> aah
[10:24] <GerardT> the Telepathy page didn't mention that :D
[10:25] <GerardT> Tired of running XP in a VM just for Vid conferencing, I was hoping Telepathy fixed that.
[10:25] <GerardT> Thanks for the help seb128
[10:25] <seb128> you're welcome
[10:25] <mac_v> seb128: you need to comment on the page or contact the author about the mistakes , in the article, this article is bad PR :(
[10:25] <seb128> GerardT, well it might work for you it's worth testing
[10:26] <seb128> mac_v, right, unfortunate but you will always have different press stories anyway
[10:26] <GerardT> I tried with a friend and the call never came through but I don't have cam, so it might be the code needs a cam on both sides of the connection
[10:26]  * seb128 wonders if somebody read my ubuntu-desktop email or care
[10:26] <seb128> I feel I waster an hour writing it yesterday
[10:26] <seb128> I feel I waster an hour writing it yesterday
[10:26] <seb128> ups
[10:27] <mac_v> seb128: was that mail a call for early testers? i was a bit confused
[10:27] <seb128> mac_v, not really no
[10:27] <mac_v> ah ,ok
[10:28] <mvo> seb128: it is
[10:28] <seb128> it was rather a call to organize efforts on quality
[10:28] <mvo> seb128: that is a bug in grub apparently, there was a discussion about this the other day
[10:28] <seb128> mvo, it is what? one hour wasted? ;-)
[10:28] <mvo> seb128: its a crap article
[10:28] <seb128> mvo, oh :-(
[10:29] <seb128> you will always find somebody who got unlucky with some hardware
[10:29] <seb128> I expect we got similar reviews about intel in jaunty
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, what was wrong with the murrine update?
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: see bug; it adds a patch to series which wasn't included in the diff
[10:30] <seb128> gni?
[10:30] <GerardT> Very impressed with Karmic btw.
[10:30] <seb128> GerardT, thanks ;-)
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, oh right, thanks for spotting it
[10:33] <seb128> pitti, reuploaded
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, that's me who sucked and tried to clean the config.guess and config.sub from the debdiff
[10:34] <seb128> I overlooked the other changes while cleaning
[10:35] <GerardT> I don't know what changed in the sound drivers but the volume is WAY better in Karmic than Jaunty
[10:36] <pitti> seb128: np; thanks
[10:36] <seb128> pitti, oh, you sponsored robert_ancell's rhythmbox change too, thanks
[10:40] <seb128> hey again chrisccoulson
[10:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I sponsored your gnome-desktop sru
[10:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - how did you track down the udev issue?
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> that's quite a non-obvious issue ;)
[10:44] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I did some IRC/ssh debugging on huat's machine; first we noticed that it works when restarting udedv (i. e. when "sudo stop udev"/"udevd --debug" -> heisenbug)
[10:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so I straced the udevd after boot, found that it threw millions of "too many open files" errors, looked at /proc/pid/fd/ and saw that it kept > 1000 dirs open to /dev/.udev/db/links/
[10:45] <seb128> pitti, just curious but why retracers keep crashing?
[10:45] <seb128> pitti, do you want me to help on cleaning and restarting those?
[10:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that's good work though. it's quite a tricky issue to track down
[10:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: then I noticed that I got the issue as well when doing an udev trigger on my usb stick
[10:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: then the fun bit was to stare at strace and the code long enough to find out where the leak happened :)
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: I just restarted them a couple of times, but they keep crashing with "bad gateway" and 403 erros
[10:46] <pitti> haven't looked into that yet, sorry
[10:47] <seb128> pitti, I was not asking you to have a look I was rather asking if you want me to do the clean and restart game for a while
[10:47] <seb128> so it's not always you
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: that would be nice
[10:47] <seb128> ok, will do
[10:47] <pitti> but I think there's an underlying bug
[10:47] <seb128> right, but meanwhile let's keep them going this way
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: it might be worth checkign if it always crashes on the same bug
[10:47] <seb128> until we look at the issue
[10:47] <pitti> if not, we could just keep restarting them
[10:47] <pitti> if it's the same bug, perhaps just untag it for now
[10:48] <seb128> ok, I will keep an eye on what happens
[10:48] <pitti> merci!
[10:48] <seb128> you're welcome
[10:49]  * pitti syncs some utopia love to lucid
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> ooh, i didn't realise the toolchain was uploaded already
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> when are we starting the gnome 2.29.1 updates? ;)
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you think that gnome bug 600488 is worth a SRU? (I haven't reported the issue on LP yet though)
[10:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, wait for somebody to complain maybe and batch with other changes?
[11:00] <seb128> ie we can wait maybe to fix some extra issues
[11:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, maybe. i'll have a look and see if there are any other gnome-screensaver issues too
[11:00] <hyperair> after rebooting over 10 times and checking my uptime directly after the desktop has settled, i've made one observation -- sreadahead is crap that doesn't do anything >_>
[11:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh it's gnome-screensaver
[11:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, go for it
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. i'll prepare the update for that later
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i initially thought the bug was totem, but i didn't realise that gnome-screensaver is meant to clear up these inhibitors too. it is that bit which currently doesn't work
[11:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you figure why it's breaking on normal closing for you?
[11:03] <Ng> hyperair: try ureadahead from the ubuntu-boot ppa :)
[11:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, doesn't sound like a terribly critical issue to me, but go ahead if you think it's important; I tend to agree to seb128 to bundle it with other fixes, though
[11:03] <hyperair> Ng: yet another Xreadahead?!
[11:04] <hyperair> Ng: what's new in this one?
[11:04] <Ng> hyperair: it has even more Keybuk magic (I have no idea ;)
[11:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, i'm not sure about that. do you see any warnings related to inhibiting when you run totem from the terminal?
[11:04] <hyperair> Ng: and i'm willing to give anything a go if it'll decrease my bootup time (currently 2m-2m30s)
[11:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson1, no
[11:29] <andreasn> mpt: do you have slides from your Interface Bloopers talk available somewhere?
[11:30] <mpt> andreasn, just uploaded it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewPaulThomas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Bloopers.pdf
[11:31] <andreasn> I saw a book the other day called GUI Bloopers, know if it's any good?
[11:41] <mpt> andreasn, I read it many years ago, and I really don't remember
[11:42] <andreasn> I'll see if I can get it from the library instead of buying it
[11:46] <apachelogger> fta: pling pling
[11:49] <chrisccoulson1> kenvandine - is your xchat-gnome indicator work publicly available anywhere?
[11:55] <fta> apachelogger, plong plong
[11:56] <apachelogger> fta: yo, is there something wrong with the chromium dailies?
[11:56] <fta> such as?
[11:56] <apachelogger> fta: not producing any dailies
[11:57] <fta> hm, let me check
[11:57] <apachelogger> fta: some dude keeps complaining that it is broken for 5 days now
[11:58] <fta> apachelogger, i fixed it yesterday, but apparently, there's a new problem
[11:59] <apachelogger> I see
[12:00] <fta> apachelogger, *sigh* another -Werror FTBFS. I'll poke upstream (i don't want to carry too many patches in my dailies)
[12:00] <apachelogger> fta: ok, thanks :)
[12:00] <chrisccoulson1> pitti - speaking of rolling gnome-screensaver updates all together - i've also been looking at bug 428884 with siretart
[12:01] <chrisccoulson1> i'm not sure what is acceptable for a SRU, but it seems that the only way to reset the IDLETIME counter is to use something like XTestFakeKeyPress, which is what other software already does too
[12:01] <fta> apachelogger, it's funny people are complaining to you and not to me
[12:03] <seb128> fta, don't use -Werror in daily builds? ;-)
[12:03] <seb128> fta, don't use -Werror in daily builds? ;-)
[12:03] <seb128> ups
[12:03]  * seb128 kicks touchpad
[12:04]  * seb128 kicks touchpad
[12:04]  * seb128 kicks touchpad
[12:04] <seb128> we should have a way to turn it off for people using the other pointing device
[12:05] <apachelogger> fta: generally complaining to the kubuntu team ;)
[12:05] <chrisccoulson1> seb128 - didn't there used to be a way to switch it off?
[12:05] <chrisccoulson1> some other users would like that functionality back too
[12:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson1, not in karmic
[12:06] <chrisccoulson1> you could switch it off in jaunty though couldn't you?
[12:07] <Ng> yeah it used to be possible
[12:07] <TheMuso`> seb128: Is bonob et al going away in lucid? If not, I am actually enclined to stick with bonob for a11y for lucid.
[12:07] <fta> seb128, upstream uses it, it prefer to stick with it and report errors on the flow. i'm trying to convince google to include karmic in their official build farm (they have hardy and jaunty already but gcc4.4 has shown hundreds of new problems)
[12:07] <TheMuso`> bonobo
[12:13] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson1, yup
[12:13] <kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/xchat-gnome-indicator
[12:13] <chrisccoulson1> kenvandine - thanks :)
[12:13] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson1, just pushed it last night :)
[12:13] <kenvandine> please test
[12:14] <chrisccoulson1> i will have a play around with that later
[12:14] <kenvandine> you need my patched xchat-gnome though, there was an xchat feature that hadn't been implemented in xchat-gnome yet that i needed
[12:14] <mac_v> kenvandine: is gwibber supposed to show "new message" in the indicator? [it currently doesnt for me]
[12:14] <seb128> TheMuso`, no
[12:14] <kenvandine> mac_v, only replies
[12:14] <mac_v> oh , ok
[12:14] <seb128> TheMuso`, there is at least gnome-panel using it
[12:14] <chrisccoulson1> kenvandine - is there a branch for your patched xchat-gnome too?
[12:15] <seb128> TheMuso`, gconf too
[12:15] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson1, https://launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/xchat-gnome
[12:15] <kenvandine> it is waiting to be built in my ppa
[12:15] <chrisccoulson1> excellent, thanks:)
[12:15] <kenvandine> bbiab
[12:17] <fta> kenvandine, does it work with the regular xchat?
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: seems that the retracer is making progress; I just remove the locks again, so that it can catch up
[12:49] <seb128> pitti, thanks, sorry I was away for lunch and didn't get to look at those before
[13:24] <kenvandine> fta, it does
[13:24] <kenvandine> but, it needs to be installed in a different rid
[13:24] <kenvandine> s/rid/dir
[13:24] <kenvandine> i should make that a build option
[13:25] <kenvandine> fta, you can just build it locally and load .libs/indicator.so
[13:32] <fta> kenvandine, maybe i should just give xchat-gnome another try..
[13:33] <fta> in fact, i already have notifications from xchat.. not sure where they come from though
[13:34]  * kenvandine is now puzzled why local builds of xchat-gnome create xchat-gnome-common but it isn't in the ppa
[13:36] <kenvandine> oh... it's arch indep
[13:37] <seb128> kenvandine, should be built anyway no?
[13:40] <seb128> pitti, retracers crashed again I will restart them from now and look at issues
[13:45] <Amaranth> mvo: I updated the compiz no_wrapper branch to include a max texture size check, should have every feature of the shell script that is still useful now
[13:45] <kenvandine> seb128_, it will be
[13:45] <kenvandine> the i386 build is stuck
[13:45] <seb128_> ah ok
[13:45] <kenvandine> est start in 14h
[13:46] <kenvandine> submitted 7 hours ago
[13:46] <seb128> the ppa builds can get slow when buildders are loaded
[13:46] <kenvandine> seb128, you should try out that plugin :)
[13:46] <Amaranth> this max texture size check is more accurate too since we've already setup the GL environment like we need it and compiz has two ways it can handle textures that each have their own max size
[13:46] <seb128> will do
[13:46] <kenvandine> it does require a patch to xchat-gnome, just to implement the GUI FOCUS command
[13:46]  * kenvandine goes to submit that upstream now
[13:46]  * Amaranth wonders when he will be able to upload compiz stuff
[13:47] <albasheers> 10 sec audio delay  when i start playing any audio in karmic koala
[13:52] <seb128> albasheers, try launchpad to submit bugs
[13:52] <albasheers> ok
[13:52] <seb128> you probably want to open the bug on pulseaudio there
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> heh, the karmic-proposed testers are an enthusiastic bunch
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> 3 thumbs up in a couple of hours versus no comments for a hardy-proposed update thats been sat around since friday
[13:55] <pitti> yeah
[13:55] <pitti> but not surprising
[13:56] <mvo> Amaranth: nice, thanks
[13:56]  * pitti copies to lucid
[13:56] <chrisccoulson> it's good that users participate in the SRU process
[13:58] <kenvandine> seb128, btw that xchat-gnome plugin suffers from the same focus problem as empathy and pidgin when raised from the indicator
[13:58]  * kenvandine is annoyed
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, it's disappointing that the dxteam washes hand and consider the issue not their issue when the user experience is so poor there
[14:01] <kenvandine> yeah, there needs to be a generic way of fixing this
[14:01] <kenvandine> we shouldn't need to go into each app and force it
[14:01] <kenvandine> like i really don't want to have to patch xchat-gnome to make it force focus
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> does anyone understand why this behaviour occurs?
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> i find it really annoying too
[14:04] <Amaranth> What is happening?
[14:04] <Amaranth> Oh, right, focus stealing prevention
[14:04] <mvo> heh :) Amaranth has a highlight on focus -  I'm sure :P
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - yes, specifically with apps launched from the indicator
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> focus focus focus :P
[14:05] <Amaranth> Right, because the WM sees you clicking on the indicator thing
[14:06] <Amaranth> So you need to have the app that is trying to get focus have a timestamp that comes after this click
[14:06] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what i was wondering
[14:06] <Amaranth> iirc I told this to someone before...
[14:06] <Amaranth> But it would involve changing code in each app that has an indicator plugin
[14:06] <Amaranth> I can't think of any other way to do it
[14:07] <mac_v> kenvandine: is xchat-gnome is similar to xchat? or any features are missing from it?
[14:07] <kenvandine> some features missing
[14:07] <Amaranth> mac_v: ban lists :/
[14:07] <kenvandine> but nothing important :)
[14:07] <Amaranth> ha
[14:07] <kenvandine> imho
[14:07]  * kenvandine has never found a need for ban lists
[14:07]  * Amaranth puts his Op Team hat on
[14:07] <Amaranth> ban lists are very important
[14:08] <kenvandine> mac_v, i estimate it is about 60% of the xchat features, enough for average users
[14:08] <kenvandine> and it has a much better UI :)
[14:08] <mac_v> oh... i *never* tried xchat-gnome  ,since folks kept telling that is had problems , ubt since kenvandine is getting the indicator plugin , I'm tempted :)
[14:08] <kenvandine> problems?
[14:08] <mac_v> but*
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> i only just started using xchat-gnome
[14:09]  * kenvandine has been using it for years, love it :)
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> i used empathy for IRC before, so xchat-gnome is a big step up
[14:09] <mac_v> kenvandine: i dont know what problems , but that was probably near hardy or earlier... i dont eve remember :)
[14:09] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, hehe...
[14:10] <Amaranth> I've been using xchat-gnome since it first made it into Ubuntu but I still miss ban lists
[14:10] <Amaranth> There has been a menu item for them this whole time too, it's just grayed out
[14:10] <Amaranth> Oh, xchat-gnome also falls over when you type "ma<tab>" and more than one nick matches
[14:10] <seb128> Amaranth, those are an admin feature though
[14:10] <mac_v> kenvandine: ... so if i install xchat-gnome most of the settings from xchat [~/.xchat] will be used?
[14:11] <mac_v> ~/.xchat2 rather
[14:15] <mac_v> !test
[14:16] <pitti> !suicide
[14:17] <mac_v> !helping humans
[14:18] <kenvandine> mac_v, yes, it uses all the xchat settings
[14:19] <mac_v> awesome...  /me migrates
[14:19] <mac_v> kenvandine: thanks :)
[14:21] <kenvandine> woot
[14:21] <kenvandine> mac_v, you should grab my source and build it locally :)
[14:22] <kenvandine> i added an un-implemented feature that is needed for the indicator plugin
[14:22] <kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/xchat-gnome/+packages
[14:22] <kenvandine> for the xchat-gnome sources
[14:22] <kenvandine> and lp:~ken-vandine/xchat-gnome-indicator/packaging
[14:22] <kenvandine> for the plugin sources
[14:23] <kenvandine> and just build them both locally for now
[14:24]  * chrisccoulson needs to think about what to work on in lucid
[14:24] <mac_v> oh...
[14:25] <mac_v> kenvandine: ok cool , I'll do that then in a bit :) ...
[14:25] <mac_v> thanks again :)
[15:26]  * ccheney` is on a really slow wifi link in orvieto
[15:32] <ccheney`> grr link is so slow i can't even sort my email
[15:36]  * ccheney` bbl
[15:36] <mvo> ccheney`: hm, have you seen the issues around bug #450569 ?
[15:36] <mac_v> seb128: the increasing trend of users are not subscribing to bugs is after the new version of launchpad landed... there is no "subscribe to bug" near the comment section... shouldnt we alteast subscribe the users by default?
[15:37] <mac_v> or should this be discussed with bdmurray?
[15:37] <seb128> I think subscribe when commenting should be the default yes
[15:41] <mvo> seb128: could I have your opinion on bug #469399 ? is there any harm in just removing a a icon-theme.cache file if its already there?
[15:43] <seb128> mvo, no, it's just a cache the gtk-update-icon-cache call will do a new one
[15:43] <seb128> mvo, weird error though
[15:43] <seb128> "gtk-update-icon-cache: Failed to open file /usr/share/icons/Amaranth/.icon-theme.cache : File exists"
[15:43] <seb128> could be that the case got corrupted or something
[15:44]  * Amaranth hates that theme
[15:44] <seb128> lol
[15:44] <seb128> mvo, I think .icon-theme.cache is a temp file though, which could means the cache update fails for this theme
[15:46] <mac_v> Amaranth: been hiding a secret theme, eh? ;)
[15:47] <hggdh> seb128: good morning, debdiff (karmic) for bug 460050 is attached to the bug
[15:47] <mvo> seb128: hm, ok. so its either a corrupted file or a bug in the theme and a misleading error message?
[15:48]  * mvo looks at the source of gtk-update-icon-cache
[15:53] <mvo> is it just me or is epiphany in karmic crashing a lot?
[15:53] <seb128> hggdh, thanks
[15:53] <seb128> mvo, right
[15:53] <seb128> mvo, I think the file starting with a . is a temp file not the cache so the cache update probably failed for a reason there
[15:54] <seb128> mvo, the reason could be that there is something in this theme making the cache update command unhappy
[15:54] <seb128> or a one time bug on the user side
[15:54] <seb128> mvo, dunno about epiphany I use firefox now
[15:54] <seb128> I would not be surprised they use webkit now and it didn't stabilize yet
[15:54] <seb128> ie still new code compared to the gecko version
[15:55] <hggdh> seb128: a question: on bug 460710 we now have tasks for Lucid. What am I supposed to do there?
[15:55] <hggdh> and sorry for bothering you :-)
[15:55] <mvo> seb128: I don't use it much, but it crashes for me after ~5 min usually
[15:55] <Amaranth> hggdh: well for an SRU you usually want to get the fix into lucid first
[15:55] <Amaranth> or at least I was always told to do so
[15:55] <Amaranth> and lucid is open now...
[15:56] <hggdh> oh
[15:57] <hggdh> so should I debuild -S -sa or -S -si?
[15:57] <mac_v> mvo: that bug hggdh just pasted is related to the progress bar... [maybe the same is affecting synaptic too]
[15:58]  * mvo looks
[15:58] <seb128> hggdh, nothing for lucid, pitti will pocket copy binaries
[15:58] <hggdh> seb128: thank you
[15:59] <seb128> theorically fixes should land in lucid first if we have changes there
[15:59] <seb128> but when the version is the same in karmic and lucid we just copy things
[15:59] <Amaranth> ah
[16:00] <Amaranth> this I did not know :)
[16:00] <Amaranth> then again I've only ever done SRUs after debian import started
[16:00] <Amaranth> and I've only done two, I think :)
[16:00] <hggdh> Amaranth: I wish I just did not know *this*, but the depth of my ignorance is astounding
[16:01] <Amaranth> hggdh: It's ok, I just read way too much
[16:01] <Amaranth> So I can tell you a little bit about how a lot of things work
[16:29] <rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 1 minute!
[16:30]  * ArneGoetje waves
[16:30]  * pedro_ waves
[16:31] <seb128_> re
[16:31] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-11-03
[16:31] <seb128_> internet disconnected and I didn't notice
[16:31] <pitti> o/
[16:31] <seb128_> or rather ip changed and I didn't notice
[16:31] <rickspencer3> asac is on holiday
[16:31] <seb128_> pitti, I guess you didn't get my "not you too!"? ;-)
[16:31] <rickspencer3> bryce, ccheney`
[16:31] <seb128_> pitti, about quilt in g-d-u
[16:31] <pitti> seb128_: erm, no?
[16:31] <seb128_> oh right meeting is one hour earlier
[16:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine,  Riddell tkamppeter
[16:32] <pitti> seb128_: pkg-utopia standard, sorry; but we don't actually have gdu patches
[16:32]  * kenvandine waves
[16:32] <seb128_> pitti, just noticed that you add quilt use to g-d-u so I added a "not you too!" comment ;-)
[16:32] <seb128_> pitti, yeah, just joking
[16:32] <rickspencer3> shall we start?
[16:32] <pitti> let's
[16:33] <rickspencer3> there are two agenda items
[16:33] <rickspencer3> 1. review goals
[16:33] <rickspencer3> 2. blueprints/UDS
[16:33] <rickspencer3> 1 is quick
[16:33] <rickspencer3> review goals are "due" by today
[16:33] <rickspencer3> that means objectives plugged into the web site
[16:33] <rickspencer3> # If you can't get them in by today, let me know and shoot for eow
[16:34] <rickspencer3> # If you don't have goals, no problems. Just think about what you want to write about yourself in your review, and make some goals that will make that review easier to write
[16:34] <rickspencer3> we can talk if you are stuck
[16:34] <rickspencer3> please be patient with the system
[16:34] <pitti> erm, those are goals for the _last_ cycle, wasn't it?
[16:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes
[16:34] <pitti> i. e. should just be copy&paste
[16:34] <rickspencer3> sorry, let me back up
[16:34] <pitti> everyone should have their goals in the old system already?
[16:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, some do, some don't
[16:35] <kenvandine> pitti, not all of us did it last time :)
[16:35] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, sorry :)
[16:35] <rickspencer3> so the HR team sent a mail asking people to out their current goals into the new web site
[16:35] <rickspencer3> we don't have to worry about 2010 goals for a few weeks
[16:35] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:35] <rickspencer3> so if you've got 'em, copy and paste
[16:35] <rickspencer3> if not, see above
[16:35] <rickspencer3> don't overanalyze
[16:35] <rickspencer3> the HR team is working very hard to get a new system up and running for us
[16:36] <rickspencer3> they are very aware of the limitations, etc... and they are working hard to shake out the remaining issues
[16:36] <rickspencer3> so I ask everyone to be patient with the new system
[16:36] <rickspencer3> Riddell, ccheney` if you haven't been to the site and don't know where it is, etc... let me know and I'll help you out in PM
[16:37] <Riddell> hmm?  I did mine yesterday
[16:37] <rickspencer3> that's #1, unless there are questions, I'd like to turn the mic over to pitti
[16:37] <rickspencer3> Riddell, ok, I'll check it out and follow up with you in PM if necessary
[16:38] <rickspencer3> bryce, ^
[16:38] <rickspencer3> ok, pitti?
[16:38] <pitti> last week's action was for everyone to spend some thoughts about your own goals for lucid
[16:38] <pitti> we have two weeks to UDS, and Rick and I want to start setting up and scheduling blueprints
[16:39] <pitti> so (1) I'm curious about what you want to do in lucid, and (2) what to talk about at UDS
[16:39] <pitti> so I propose we go round and let everyone speak
[16:39] <pitti> I'll start
[16:39] <pitti> goals:
[16:39] <pitti> - Continue halsectomy: move suspend quirks from hal-info to pm-utils, and play with the existing patch to un-hal-ify X.org; goal: no hal installed by default
[16:39] <pitti> - make desktop startup faster
[16:39] <pitti> - fix lots of bugs, and more of those
[16:39] <pitti> so from those, I would like to have those blueprints:
[16:39] <pitti> suspend-quirks-halsectomy, xorg-halsectomy, compiz-speedup, nautilus-speedup, panel-speedup
[16:40] <pitti> (the first two probably won't need discussion, just as a tool for tracking progress)
[16:40] <pitti> so, let's just start from the top of the meeting list
[16:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: ?
[16:41] <rickspencer3> I put a list on the meeting page ...
[16:41] <pitti> rickspencer3: right, I meant your _personal_ goals
[16:41] <pitti> quickly and some such?
[16:41] <pitti> (let's talk about the stuff from other teams etc. later)
[16:41] <rickspencer3> right, I was going to say
[16:41] <rickspencer3> pitti, I'm not sure what you're asking for
[16:42] <rickspencer3> oh, my personal goals
[16:42] <rickspencer3> gotcha, sorry
[16:42] <pitti> rickspencer3: like, do you plan something like quickly for lucid? improvements/new projects/etc.?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> they are already in the wiki ;)
[16:42] <rickspencer3> # Quickly ubuntu-project template enhancements, new templates
[16:42] <rickspencer3> # Quickly itself enhancements
[16:42] <pitti> thanks; those map to blueprints pretty well, I guess
[16:43] <rickspencer3> yes
[16:43] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ?
[16:43] <ArneGoetje> - continue karmic improvements, what has been left over
[16:43] <ArneGoetje> for language-selector
[16:43] <ArneGoetje> - improve wordlist handling for Chinese in IBus if possible
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, Riddell - shall we discuss Rosetta + Kubuntu in a blueprint?
[16:44] <ArneGoetje> - improve fontconfig settings and default font selection for the desktop
[16:45] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3, Riddell: what needs to be done there?
[16:45] <pitti> ArneGoetje: did you already get some feedback about the ibus switch?
[16:45] <Riddell> ArneGoetje: stop a rebellion :)
[16:45] <pitti> lol
[16:45] <pitti> Riddell: like, upstream vs. LP translations?
[16:45] <ArneGoetje> pitti: so far positive, some users have trouble with the upgrade from Jaunty
[16:45] <pitti> sounds worth a discussion, since it keeps coming up
[16:46] <Riddell> and vs kubuntu packagers
[16:46] <pitti> noted on the list
[16:46] <pitti> ArneGoetje: thanks
[16:46] <pitti> bryce ?
[16:46] <bryce> heya
[16:46] <ArneGoetje> Riddell: I'm a bit detached from that discussion right now... can you update me after meeting?
[16:47] <pitti> bryce: lucid-kill-all-checkbox-bugs :)
[16:47] <rickspencer3> that's a karmic update, right pitti? ;)
[16:47] <pitti> ArneGoetje: I'll put it on the UDS agenda, seems worth having more people in that
[16:47] <bryce> pitti, :-)
[16:47] <pitti> rickspencer3: that too
[16:47] <Riddell> ArneGoetje: well we have a phone call tomorrow, you accepted the invite I think
[16:47] <rickspencer3> pitti, I have one that I would like to suggest to bryce, is this the right forum for that?
[16:47] <pitti> sure
[16:47] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok
[16:47] <bryce> well, mostly I'd like to make progress against the large count of X bugs, by stabilizing things
[16:48] <ArneGoetje> Riddell: yes
[16:48] <rickspencer3> bryce, I think a package that installs everything for a good touch experience would be useful
[16:48] <bryce> along those lines, I'd like to get some better bug triaging and diagnosis tools in place
[16:49] <bryce> rickspencer3, as in touchscreens?
[16:49] <pitti> bryce: do you plan changes on the nouveau/KMS front?
[16:49] <rickspencer3> bryce, yes
[16:49] <rickspencer3> make sure that we have an on screen keyboard that works, etc...
[16:49] <bryce> pitti, I am thinking if we were to change that, it should have been changed in karmic
[16:50] <pitti> bryce: nouveau? I agree; but there might be some KMS improvements for ATI, etc.?
[16:50] <pitti> rickspencer3, bryce: should touchscreen support become a UDS session?
[16:50] <bryce> rickspencer3, ok, it might help to have appropriate hardware for that
[16:51] <rickspencer3> pitti, I think it's a nice to have, but could become important if someone wants to ship a touch device with Ubuntu
[16:51] <rickspencer3> so, I would like such a session if there is time
[16:51] <pitti> sure; let's add it as "low"
[16:51] <bryce> pitti, not sure there is enough to warrant having a discussion about it, it'll mostly be a "hook it up and fiddle with it until it works reliably" type of project ;-)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> bryce, there is app selection and settings too
[16:52] <pitti> bryce: driver-wise yes; screen keyboard, panel changes, etc. sound more discussion worthy
[16:52] <pitti> ok, thanks
[16:52] <rickspencer3> I feel that we can move on and discuss in the blueprint
[16:52] <pitti> oh, -ENOCALC
[16:52] <pitti> Riddell?
[16:52] <pitti> ah, sorry
[16:52] <pitti> ccheney`: ?
[16:53] <pitti> timeout; Riddell?
[16:53] <Riddell> there is a document called Project Timelord linked from kubuntu.org which lists much of what we want to achieve
[16:53] <Riddell>  - fixing translations issues
[16:53] <Riddell>  - strategies for publicity, vision, marketing and software branding
[16:53] <Riddell>  - increase the efficiency of our bug trackers
[16:53] <Riddell>  - Measures to ensure the continuing quality of our KDE packages
[16:53] <Riddell>  - improve the integration of Kubuntu-specific tools with KDE
[16:54] <Riddell> in general, it's an LTS so we want to do as little as possible, just fixing anything that needs it
[16:54] <pitti> Riddell: on that note, would you prefer to set up the kubuntu blueprints yourself, or want me to do them?
[16:54] <Riddell> pitti: I'll do them in the next day or three
[16:54] <pitti> ok, thanks
[16:54] <pitti> Riddell: bug tracker efficiency> I think this should be a whole-group discussion
[16:55] <pitti> the one we had on last UDS was pretty good IMHO, and we should collect experience from the last cycle
[16:55] <pitti> I'll add that one
[16:56] <pitti> ok?
[16:56] <Riddell> ok
[16:56] <pitti> thanks; kenvandine?
[16:56] <kenvandine> ok
[16:56] <kenvandine> social from the start
[16:56] <rickspencer3> *cough*
[16:57] <kenvandine> empathy/indicator workflow improvements
[16:57] <seb128> lol
[16:57] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:57] <kenvandine> and the move from patching empathy to using MC5 directly
[16:57]  * seb128 takes gun and defend desktop from too much new crack
[16:57] <kenvandine> :)
[16:57] <kenvandine> that's it
[16:57] <Zdra> I guess karmic+1 won't have gnome-shell?
[16:58] <seb128> no
[16:58] <seb128> GNOME 2.30 neither
[16:58] <pitti> kenvandine: should leave enough room for bug fixing for you as well then?
[16:58] <seb128> see d-d-l
[16:58] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'd like to see if we can improve our QA process for new code landing on the desktop
[16:58] <kenvandine> pitti, definately :)
[16:58] <rickspencer3> worth a sessin?
[16:58] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, like from partners?
[16:58] <rickspencer3> yes, and us too
[16:58] <kenvandine> session with OLS and DX?
[16:58] <Zdra> seb128, is it already known if GNOME 2.30 will exist? isn't it still supposed to be GNOME 3?
[16:58] <kenvandine> yeah, of course
[16:59] <rickspencer3> but like OLS and Dx stuff, can we help them catch bugs earlier?
[16:59] <seb128> Zdra, read desktop-devel-list and the email from Owen
[16:59] <Amaranth> Zdra: gnome-shell and GTK+ will not be ready
[16:59] <seb128> Zdra, they consider they will not be ready for next cycle
[16:59] <Amaranth> so 2.30 will just be 2.30
[16:59] <rickspencer3> pedro_, ^ worth a session?
[16:59] <pitti> rickspencer3: +1 for a session
[16:59] <pedro_> rickspencer3, yes, totally
[16:59] <Zdra> seb128, Amaranth: oh ok
[16:59] <Zdra> fair enough
[16:59] <rickspencer3> pedro_, can you run that session, own that blueprint?
[16:59] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, +1
[17:00] <pedro_> rickspencer3, sure, i'll take that
[17:00] <rickspencer3> pedro_, <3
[17:00] <rickspencer3> thanks
[17:00] <pitti> thanks pedro_
[17:00] <pedro_> np :-)
[17:00] <pitti> pedro_: on that front, anything else you'd like to talk about at UDS?
[17:01] <pedro_> pitti, well I'd like to take a look to our workflow on the bugs side and see we can improve there, but i think you already mentioned it
[17:01] <pedro_> s/we/what
[17:01] <pitti> pedro_: right, we'll have a session about this (or two, I think)
[17:02] <pitti> probably one about workflow/prioritization and one about tools
[17:02] <pitti> seb128?
[17:02] <seb128> goals:
[17:02] <seb128> - bring the desktop back to a lts expected quality
[17:02] <seb128> - login speed
[17:02] <seb128> - cleaning in GNOME api use to continue
[17:02] <seb128> specs: gdmsetup-improvements (sound, themes, user list option), review-sound-capplet (the new ones have ui limitations which don't allow some tasks to be done which used to work in hardy), review-desktop-experience (especially indicators workflow), karmic-desktop-quality, gnome3
[17:02] <seb128> + login speeds spec from pitti
[17:03] <seb128>
[17:03] <seb128> that's it
[17:03] <pitti> nice, thanks
[17:03] <Amaranth> seb128: I've got some good news for login speed wrt to compiz. I've killed the shell script
[17:03] <rickspencer3> pitti, I forgot to mention one
[17:03] <pitti> rickspencer3: go ahead, please
[17:04] <rickspencer3> related to pedro_'s
[17:04] <seb128> Amaranth, does that makes a difference?
[17:04] <pitti> in general, if anything still comes to your mind, just /msg me
[17:04] <seb128> I would like to discuss what I wrote on my email to the list too
[17:04] <Amaranth> seb128: I can't tell, my login speeds are kind of weird
[17:04] <pitti> I'll prepare the initial list tomorrow (which won't be frozen in any way yet, but we need to get going)
[17:04] <rickspencer3> launchpad team wants to work with us better regarding our liblaunchpad scripting
[17:04] <rickspencer3> support our efforts there better
[17:04] <seb128> at least having people testing set of features
[17:04] <rickspencer3> of course, I will be pushing for bughugger adoption ;)
[17:05] <seb128> it's annoying that we ship new versions with things like pdf printing or audio cd recording broken
[17:05] <pitti> rickspencer3: sounds great; like, the ubuntu-dev-scripts collection, etc.?
[17:05] <pedro_> rickspencer3, like implementing the workarounds we've been doing?
[17:05] <pedro_> what pitti said
[17:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, right, they have a repository for scripts, and want to help us contribute directly to launchpadlib if we have unmet needs
[17:06] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll add a session for it then
[17:06] <rickspencer3> tx
[17:06] <pitti> ok, thanks everyone for your input; as I said, please /msg me if you forgot something
[17:07] <pitti> seb128: "I would like to discuss what I wrote on my email to the list" -> is that an agenda topic, or UDS topic?
[17:07] <seb128> pitti, none of those, rather an out of topic thing to discuss on the channel
[17:07] <seb128> could be for UDS too
[17:07] <rickspencer3> seb128 == crack terminator
[17:07] <seb128> not sure if other people thing it would be a good idea to have set of feature by assigned people
[17:07] <seb128> I don't want that to be too much of a constrain
[17:08] <rickspencer3> pitti, may I mention one thing regarding implementing features in Lucid?
[17:08] <seb128> but like if you use an usb music player try it at every milestone
[17:08] <seb128> if somebody has access to a smb network make sure it keeps working
[17:08] <seb128> etc
[17:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure; I'm done with my part anyway
[17:08] <rickspencer3> k
[17:09] <rickspencer3> so when thinking about new stuff to implement, please break it down to very "bite size" pieces in you mind
[17:09] <pitti> seb128: that sounds like a good idea; also, things like "PDF printing" or "usb music player handlng changed" should probably be announced in the first place; we're pretty bad at this, I think
[17:09] <seb128> that too
[17:09] <rickspencer3> this is because I will be requiring each project to be done in 3 separable chunks
[17:10] <rickspencer3> after UDS, I will ask folks contributing to the desktop to commit to only 4 weeks of work at a time
[17:10] <rickspencer3> and that each 4 week chunk is something complete enough to ship
[17:10] <rickspencer3> we'll discuss lots more later, but I wanted to mention this so people could start thinking about it
[17:11] <rickspencer3> that's all for that
[17:11] <rickspencer3> seb128, did I interupt you, were you finished?
[17:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, I was done with that thanks
[17:11] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:11] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:11] <pitti> seb128: sorry, didn't read your mail yet, will do
[17:11] <pitti> o/
[17:11] <pitti> one quick announcement
[17:11] <pitti> please everyone take 5 seconds to do https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l/+attend
[17:11] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:11] <pitti> it's very important for us to sensibly schedule specs
[17:12] <seb128> oh, and not sure I will be around for meeting next week
[17:12] <seb128> I'm traveling on monday to join a sprint before uds
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: fine, then you'll get all the action items
[17:12]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[17:12]  * rickspencer3 thinks seb128 just added someone to ignore list
[17:12] <seb128> pitti, be careful I will be sitting near of you soon ;-)
[17:13] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:13] <seb128> no
[17:13] <rickspencer3> ok all
[17:13] <rickspencer3> UDS starts in less than 2 weeks :)
[17:13] <pitti> thanks all
[17:13] <rickspencer3> looking forward to seeing everyone
[17:13] <rickspencer3> by all
[17:13] <seb128> thanks
[17:13] <bryce> thanks
[17:13]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:13] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:14] <pedro_> thanks
[17:16] <pitti> dinner &
[17:26] <seb128> pedro_, it has been a while you didn't pick a GNOME package for the bug day
[17:26] <seb128> pedro_, not liking us desktopers anymore? ;-)
[17:27] <Amaranth> ooh, ooh, pick compiz
[17:27] <Amaranth> 411 bugs open, over 100 New :)
[17:28] <Amaranth> I swear 3-4 weeks ago it was 8 New
[17:30] <seb128> welcome to post karmic fllod
[17:30] <seb128> flood
[17:30] <seb128> I got over 1000 bug emails this weekend
[17:30] <seb128> and I'm subscribed only to desktop things I'm interested in
[17:32] <cassidy> are you getting actual new bug or just dup?
[17:33] <bryce> I know, I'm getting frustrated by the bug influx too
[17:34] <bryce> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
[17:36] <seb128> cassidy, hard to say, I would say a third is duplicates
[17:36] <seb128> a third is comments about bugs not fixed yet
[17:36] <seb128> and a third are new issues or wishlists
[17:37] <seb128> cassidy, btw, how do you debug empathy not connection to msn where pidgin works?
[17:37] <seb128> cassidy, btw, how do you debug empathy not connection to msn where pidgin works?
[17:37] <seb128> ups
[17:37] <seb128> cassidy, we got quite some bugs about that
[17:37] <seb128> I'm not sure what to do with those
[17:38] <seb128> it's somewhat sucking, empathy guys will bounce back to telepathy-butterfly which is not actively worked
[17:39] <seb128> you can't blame empathy but the result is that the user experience is not what it should
[17:42]  * istaz is getting butterfly bug duped again not public bugs, not fun
[17:42] <seb128> istaz, 90% of the bugs are open right now
[17:42] <seb128> let me check those which are not
[17:43] <istaz> seb128: this one isn't https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/459366
[17:44] <cassidy> seb128, I'd ask for butterfly logs, they should be in the debug window
[17:44] <seb128> cassidy, ok, I think the most recent one was getting a network error error
[17:44] <seb128> but he says he can connect using pidgin from the same box
[17:44] <seb128> istaz, opened
[17:44] <cassidy> we can't do anything without logs, really
[17:44] <seb128> istaz, can telepathy-butterfly contain accounts or password informations?
[17:45] <cassidy> that's why I wrote this auto-fetch log tool :p
[17:45] <seb128> cassidy, I'm not sure users would appreciate you getting all those login and password infos though
[17:45] <istaz> seb128: probably because pidgin handle proxy and http connection and we don't (at least butterfly isn't)
[17:45] <seb128> there is no way you could strip private datas?
[17:45] <cassidy> password won't be displayed
[17:45] <seb128> istaz, would those work using haze for msn?
[17:46] <istaz> seb128: traceback from apport no, full logs from butterflyC[C yes
[17:46] <seb128> istaz, ok, let me quickly open all crash bugs
[17:46] <istaz> seb128: most probably yes
[17:46] <pedro_> seb128, i didn't organized a bug day for previous weeks because of the release, next week i'll do one for the desktop
[17:46] <seb128> pedro_, thanks ;-)
[17:46] <pedro_> seb128, jcastro was asking me for a gwibber one since upstream are coming to uds
[17:46] <pedro_> so time to nudge them about that ;-)
[17:47] <seb128> hehe
[17:47] <seb128> gwibber get a lot of hipe nowadays
[17:47] <jcastro> just a lot of bugs
[17:47] <cassidy> the new version is incredibly shit
[17:47] <and471> mvo: any problems with the code?
[17:47] <istaz> I should probably take a full day to look at thoses bug
[17:47] <cassidy> I used to work fine for me and now it's unusable :(
[17:47] <seb128> cassidy, are you coming to uds?
[17:48] <Amaranth> bryce: ouch, about 1000 bugs since august
[17:48] <cassidy> no
[17:48] <pedro_> i just wish i could quit the application with just one click, rather than closing and then killing the daemon :-/
[17:48] <jcastro> pedro_, that was our own idea I think
[17:48] <istaz> I only take a quick look at all the bugs spam and can't hardly keep up since all the info are hidden in the dups
[17:48] <seb128> cassidy, ok, somebody from the empathy or telepathy team coming?
[17:48] <jcastro> for the record during the session at UDS for gwibber I begged and cried for developers to help. :-/
[17:48] <seb128> istaz, sorry about that
[17:48] <cassidy> I don't think so
[17:49] <istaz> seb128: not your fault
[17:49] <Amaranth> I thought apport wouldn't dupe a public but to a private one
[17:50] <Amaranth> wait, apport crashes are all private :/
[17:50] <bryce> jcastro, need to gain more developers ;-)
[17:51] <jcastro> bryce, yeah, so same boat as everyone else, heh.
[17:57] <mac_v> seb128: found bug 414401 , lp bugs team says there is some chance it can be picked up and landed next week., so hopefully you'll be burdened less ;)
[17:57] <seb128> mac_v, thanks
[18:00] <mac_v> hmm! great...! evolution cant play .ogg sounds for mail notifications but is able to play .wav o.0
[18:03] <mac_v> 'Start.ogg': unrecognized audio file format [error 0]
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - has that ever worked?
[18:06] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: when i set a .wav audio file it works
[18:07] <seb128> istaz, opened all the bugs on telepathy-butterfly now
[18:08] <istaz> thanks
[18:08] <seb128> istaz, I think I already asked but is there a way to make the difference between a crash and a caught exception in those bug?
[18:08] <seb128> I think you said apport was catching many things which should not
[18:08] <seb128> do you have examples?
[18:08] <seb128> I would like to improve that for lucid
[18:10] <mac_v> chrisccoulson: i was also not sure that audio ever worked for notification, but i caught that error when i was debugging something else
[18:11] <istaz> don't know how apport catch exception, basically I think that's all the exception provoked by d-bus call and returned to the caller
[18:11] <and471> mac_v: if I want the latest humanity icons, which branch should I use, the elementary art one or the humanity one?
[18:11] <mac_v> and471: the latest is humanity , elementary is just for testing
[18:12] <and471> mvo: I thought I removed it
[18:12] <and471> mvo: I shall check
[18:12] <and471> mac_v: so if I want the icons before they come out officially, the elementary branch?
[18:12] <istaz> hum no disregard that there is also a whole lot of error which don't make butterfly crash
[18:13] <mac_v> and471: not really either... we are just confused a bit right now.. :)
[18:13] <mvo> and471: thanks, it maybe bzr playing tricks on me
[18:13] <mac_v> and471: not many new icons are done... very rarely... we are taking a breather of sorts ;)
[18:13] <and471> mac_v: okay
[18:14] <istaz> seb128: if that's only enabled for dev version that's not really a problem it may help us catch bug we didn't notice before
[18:14] <and471> mac_v: is the elementary branch synced to the humanity one, or the other way around, or it it just random?
[18:14] <istaz> it's just annoying for the users
[18:15] <seb128> istaz, it is
[18:15] <seb128> istaz, we turn apport off in stable
[18:15] <seb128> istaz, how can help you to triage the current backlog?
[18:15] <and471> mvo: I looks like it was removed http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rugby471/software-center/software-store-andrew/revision/256
[18:16] <seb128> I would like to build a list of most annoying issues this week
[18:16] <mac_v> and471: its mostly synced i guess, i try to sync humanity and elementary.... but we are thinking of making some changes to revamp the theme... soo...
[18:17] <and471> mac_v: but I mean if there are changes in one branch, are they synced both ways?
[18:18] <mac_v> and471: if the change is in humanity it will be in elemntary too... but not other way around , since several icons are just not final
[18:18] <istaz> seb128: what I most need is way to reproduce the problem, failing that logs
[18:19] <seb128> istaz, what logs? do you have a page on how to debug butterfly?
[18:20] <seb128> istaz, and a way to sort bugs between telepathy-butterfly and papyon too?
[18:20] <istaz> seb128: in empathy  Help > Debug > Select butterfly
[18:20] <istaz> not really
[18:20] <istaz> complete instruction are on http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/Debugging
[18:21] <seb128> ok thanks
[18:21] <seb128> nothing specific to butterfly out of empathy then
[18:21] <istaz> not with the version packaged in karmic
[18:22] <seb128> ok
[18:23] <seb128> let me know if there is things we can do in lucid to improve bug reports
[18:25] <istaz> cassidy: do you think there would be a nice way for apport to retrieve the Debug interface logs of Empathy and CM ?
[18:25] <seb128> istaz, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/431081
[18:26] <seb128> I've been discussed with cassidy just before
[18:26] <seb128> the issue I have is that it would make most bugs private by default
[18:26] <mvo> and471: I merged some stuff, many thanks. please re-merge and check if it looks good, I had some trouble with the merge this time
[18:26]  * mvo off for dinner
[18:26] <and471> mvo: cool thanks
[18:26] <mvo> and471: thanks you :)
[18:26]  * mvo &
[18:27] <istaz> seb128: oh nice
[18:52] <and471> mvo: when you come back, any reason you didn't include this (just the top bit, about the always show image) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Erugby471/software-center/software-store-andrew/revision/255/data/ui/SoftwareCenter.ui
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - do you have any ideas about bug 429322? (i notice that the equivalent fedora bug is assigned to you)
[19:29] <mclasen> no
[19:30] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - all i know so far is how to trigger it
[19:30] <mclasen> thats the most important part...
[19:30] <chrisccoulson> it crashes when Xorg disappears
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> if i start an xtrace session with "xtrace -k -d:0 -D:9" and then run "DISPLAY=:9.0 seahorse-agent", it crashes if i stop xtrace
[19:55] <jcastro> rickspencer3, is that you adding roderick's sessions to summit?
[19:55] <rickspencer3> jcastro, nope
[19:56] <jcastro> greening, a kubuntu person
[19:56] <jcastro> just trying to fix the session scheduling
[20:11] <crevette> ah, for those interset I packaged latest bluez, I should perahps propose for upload for lucid
[20:26] <ccheney`> pitti: pong (slow)
[20:27] <pitti> ccheney`: hi! during the meeting I asked everyone for a quick overview about their plans for lucid, and which blueprints they want to have for UDS; could you send/msg this to me, please?
[20:29] <ccheney`> pitti: ok
[20:39]  * ccheney` looks at how many new bugs per day he is getting and cries :-\
[20:40]  * chrisccoulson wishes the "restart required" windows would stop appearing in inactive sessions and ending up as white boxes
[20:40] <ccheney`> ~ 15 new bugs in a span of 12 hours
[20:40]  * ccheney` hopes there a lot of dupes
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> grrrrrr, hate orbit
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you want me to backport the fix for bug 441642 to karmic?
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> (or perhaps you did it already)
[20:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any other change to batch with it?
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can't think of any off the top of my head
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> i should check the list of open bugs and make sure
[20:45] <seb128> would be nice to get in karmic but not worth an upload by itself either
[20:47] <TheMuso`> seb128: Thanks for that. It makes my decision a lot easier.
[20:48] <cassidy> istaz, already done :)
[20:48] <seb128> TheMuso`, not my call ;-)
[20:48] <seb128> TheMuso`, but yeah, GNOME3 is likely going to not be there before l+1 anyway so no hurry for lucid
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 419354 seems to be accumulating quite a few duplicates now. i was going to fix that anyway, although I didn't initially think it was worth a SRU. It seems that quite a few people are reporting it now though, which I find a bit strange
[20:49] <mclasen> chrisccoulson: there is no surprise in an X client crashing if X goes away...
[20:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, let's batch those changes
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, i'll work on that now
[20:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[20:52] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - it probably shouldn't crash though should it? shouldn't it exit more gracefully?
[20:53] <mclasen> chrisccoulson: in any case, there is no X server going away during login
[20:54] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - is it happening during login though? in our users case, they get a crash report when they log in, but that could be for a crash that happened at the end of their last session
[20:54] <mclasen> hmm, could be
[20:55] <mclasen> the right fix is to make it a session client and get away from the crazy env-var-passing...
[20:55] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - i agree
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - the crash is introduced in the new version because it calls "atexit (seahorse_agent_exit);" during initialization
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> it looks like it never used to do that
[21:54] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[21:55] <seb128> how are you?
[21:55] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey
[21:55] <pitti> robert_ancell: good morning
[21:55] <robert_ancell> seb128, looking forward to getting into lucid... :)
[21:55] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey
[21:56]  * seb128 is having some ssh issues
[21:57] <seb128> oh no, it was focus kept by gnome-keyring somewhere
[21:57] <seb128> pitti, feel like approving a sru today still?
[21:57] <seb128> bug #460050
[21:57] <pitti> if it's urgent
[21:57] <seb128> not urgent but it's a frequent crasher
[21:57] <pitti> I'm knee-deep in a fight with lvm rules
[21:58] <seb128> it's a online change, debdiff or the bug and uploaded
[21:58] <seb128> no hurry though
[21:58] <seb128> online -> one line
[21:58] <pitti> ok, sounds easy; will have a look
[21:58] <seb128> not really one line but trivial
[21:59] <seb128> thanks
[21:59] <seb128> seems there is quite some unhappy users about it
[21:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, lucid is open now
[21:59] <cassidy> Am I supposed to have a "Ubuntu One" address book automatically created in Evolution?
[21:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, \o/
[21:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, did you read my ubuntu-desktop email?
[21:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes
[22:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so focus is on merging first please then 2.29 ;-)
[22:00] <seb128> and we will need to be selective about changes we take
[22:00] <robert_ancell> seb128, party pooper
[22:00] <seb128> lol
[22:00] <seb128> if you have specific things you want to update to 2.29 after rebasing on debian I'm fine uploading
[22:01] <seb128> you will just be responsive for bugs coming from those ;-)
[22:01] <robert_ancell> seb128, sure, do you know of many changes that are needed?  I'm fixing some totem and rhythmbox ones but most of the stuff you listed were things that will be fixed in lucid
[22:01] <seb128> good work on the gdm cleaning btw
[22:01] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I know that for accessibility and audio, I intend to be somewhat conservative this cycle.
[22:01] <seb128> robert_ancell, needed for karmic updates you mean? upstream fixed the totem youtube issue if you want to backport that
[22:01] <robert_ancell> seb128, re gdm - yeah I want to get started on lucid so we can close a lot of those
[22:01] <seb128> the git 2.28 has some other interesting changes
[22:01] <robert_ancell> seb128, doing youtube issue now
[22:02] <seb128> you might want to take some extra ones there while working on an update
[22:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, ok
[22:02] <seb128> robert_ancell, gdm, I think gdmsetup need to have options for sound, user list and theme
[22:02] <seb128> users need a way to have a silent boot
[22:02] <seb128> some use their laptop at school or in libraries etc
[22:02] <seb128> user list seems a security concern for some users
[22:03] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah I talked to rick about that - he doesn't see these sorts of changes as suitable for backporting.  what do you guys think?
[22:03] <seb128> and theming is frequently requested
[22:03] <seb128> what, the gdmsetup extra options?
[22:03] <robert_ancell> yes
[22:03] <seb128> no, it's going to be for lucid
[22:03] <seb128> new strings, etc
[22:03] <seb128> as written on the list karmic is rough but it was a tech change version
[22:03] <robert_ancell> oh good.  yes, I mean I want to start on Lucid so I can add all those options
[22:03] <seb128> we need to focus early on lucid and not waste efforts to assure quality for lucid
[22:04] <seb128> in my opinion at least
[22:04] <seb128> others are free to disagree ;-)
[22:04] <seb128> we might want to fix the uid issue in karmic though
[22:04] <seb128> I would argue changing back to 500 maybe there
[22:05] <seb128> it will list extra users in some case but not break working configs
[22:05] <robert_ancell> seb128, I changed that because someone said they were seeing users they shouldn't!!
[22:05] <seb128> I know, sorry about that
[22:05] <seb128> that's what the debian policy say too
[22:05] <robert_ancell> that's a change we're never going to make everyone happy about
[22:05] <seb128> but apparently some people are old linux users than me
[22:05] <seb128> and kept their uid all the way ;-)
[22:05] <robert_ancell> A common case seems to be connecting via nfs to other unix boxes so they need to have UIDs 500-1000
[22:06] <seb128> well the bug suggest using the limit set in the etc config
[22:06] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, agreed
[22:06] <seb128> at least users can tweak it this way
[22:06] <robert_ancell> sun made a bunch of changes to make the blacklist etc configurable
[22:07] <robert_ancell> so upstream should support such change
[22:07] <seb128> ok good
[22:07] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: You around for our meeting?
[22:08] <seb128> do you think you want to start working on otherwise?
[22:08] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, sorry, on call atm
[22:08] <rickspencer3> 1hr?
[22:08] <seb128> debian merges, 2.29 updates, lucid changes?
[22:08] <robert_ancell> seb128, will do
[22:08] <pitti> seb128: hm; any chance I could convice you to reupload evolution with a fixed bug ref in teh changelog? (missing #)
[22:08] <pitti> seb128: quite a lot of pages and I believe also update-notifier depend on correct syntax
[22:08] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Fine by me.
[22:10] <seb128> pitti, re-uploading, sorry about that
[22:10] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[22:11] <seb128> robert_ancell, out of this any plan for the week? you think we should start on 2.29?
[22:11] <seb128> we usually spend before UDS time on SRU and merges
[22:12] <seb128> to not break too much while traveling and being busy drinking^Wspecing
[22:12] <seb128> pitti, reuploaded should be in the queue soon
[22:13] <pitti> merci
[22:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, does anyone run lucid this early in the cycle?  I think it would be good to get some packages done so we can focus on bugs rather than uploading after UDS
[22:13] <seb128> sorry about the # I though the tools were flexible enough to deal with that
[22:13] <pitti> robert_ancell: only crazy people do
[22:13] <robert_ancell> pitti, that's what I thought :)
[22:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, those who do get what they deserve
[22:13] <seb128> ;-)
[22:14] <robert_ancell> seb128, pitti, how do we deal with bzr once we've uploaded lucid packages and need to do a SRU?
[22:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, we don't use bzr for the sru
[22:14] <pitti> there's two options
[22:15] <pitti> either just ignore it and don't commit
[22:15] <pitti> or create a karmic branch and update Vcs-Bzr:
[22:15] <pitti> i. e. /ubuntu -> /karmic
[22:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, ok#
[22:15] <pitti> for packages that get SRUs often, the latter might be nice
[22:19] <seb128> I usually don't bother but right
[22:19] <seb128> I tend to focus on SRU while I still run the stable
[22:19] <seb128> ie until uds
[22:19] <seb128> and then switch to the new version
[22:20] <pitti> robert_ancell: as long as karmic == lucid version, you are welcome to just use the normal trunk, too
[22:20] <pitti> which even reflects reality, given that we copy karmic-proposed to lucid in this case
[22:20] <robert_ancell> pitti, ok
[22:21] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you have any spec or topic you want to discuss for uds btw?
[22:21] <seb128> just being curious
[22:21] <seb128> I know other people will ask you for official records ;-)
[22:21] <robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DocumentScanning
[22:22] <robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/UserAccountManagement
[22:22] <robert_ancell> and will work on a GDM one too
[22:22] <robert_ancell> and interested in default packages (of course)
[22:22]  * TheMuso examines the document scanning blueprint.
[22:23] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: scan a document and edit in a word processor implies OCR.
[22:24] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, yes - I've listed what I think all users want to do.  I don't expect that feature will be implemented/implementable in lucid
[22:24] <TheMuso> So we will need an OCR engine in main.
[22:24] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok.
[22:24] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok good
[22:24] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, but if I can I'd like to get it to work
[22:25] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Right, I am happy to help here. It all depends on what scan stuff openoffice.org-writer supports, particularly the OCR backend it can work with.
[22:26] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, cool.  every time I look at ooo I just get scared :)
[22:26] <TheMuso> Heh I think I would too.
[22:27] <TheMuso> You have m interested in what scanning options ooo has.
[22:28] <TheMuso> Ok it seems that the scanning stuff in OOo writer is for picture scanning.
[22:38]  * didrocks is still striking with the ubuntu-fr remix :/
[22:38] <seb128> didrocks, getting issues?
[22:39] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, size issue mainly :)
[22:39] <didrocks> that's strange, my uncompress squashfs is smaller than ubuntu vanilla one
[22:39] <didrocks> but using mksquashfs make the result bigger
[22:39] <seb128> didrocks, weird, should be easier this cycle with documentation in langpacks
[22:39] <didrocks> I might not use the magic compression option
[22:41] <didrocks> ok, trying to recreate vanilla squashfs
[22:41] <didrocks> just to compare size
[22:44] <TheMuso> didrocks: What options are you passing to mksquashfs?
[22:44] <didrocks> TheMuso: none
[22:45] <TheMuso> hrm interesting.
[22:45] <didrocks> TheMuso: the only option that seems to be interesting regarding size is -always-use-fragments
[22:46] <TheMuso> Right, well the livefs creation script doesn't pass any options to mksquashfs either.
[22:46] <TheMuso> Well, there is the -sort option, but that file is empty.
[22:46] <didrocks> hum strange as I'm using karmic one
[22:47] <didrocks> ok, yeah, recreating the vanilla squashfs give me the same size
[22:47] <didrocks> it just seems that the extra space I have, even getting an uncompressed size smaller than compressed one, is less compressable
[22:49] <TheMuso> didrocks: What are you adding to the squashfs?
[22:49] <didrocks> TheMuso: French translation packages, removing other languages-related ones and a compressed pdf (30 MiB)
[22:50] <didrocks> but the sum is 2028 Mio
[22:50] <didrocks> and the vanilla squashfs is 2066
[22:50] <didrocks> just seems it's harder to compress the added data…
[22:52] <TheMuso> Right.
[22:56] <pitti> good night everyone
[22:57] <TheMuso> Night pitti./
[22:57] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell I'm off my call
[22:58] <didrocks> good night pitti
[22:58] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[22:58] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[22:58] <rickspencer3> hope all is well
[22:58] <rickspencer3> looks like a bit more action around Quickly yesterday ;)
[22:58] <didrocks> all is well, thanks :)
[22:58] <didrocks> yeah ^^
[22:59] <didrocks> your talk was great :)
[22:59] <rickspencer3> heh
[22:59] <rickspencer3> did it not seem vaguely familiar?
[23:00] <didrocks> a little ^^
[23:00] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok
[23:01] <rickspencer3> why is GPD driver under graphics?
[23:02] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: ok.
[23:03] <rickspencer3> ok, so desktop team meeting Eastern edition
[23:04] <rickspencer3> first we discussed review stuff, which is not relevant to either of you guys, because you already did it ;)
[23:04] <TheMuso> Right.
[23:04] <rickspencer3> then the rest of the meeting, pitti went around and ask us each to discuss potential blueprints that we might want to do for UDS (which is in less than 2 weeks :o) ;)
[23:05] <rickspencer3> so, TheMuso ... thoughts on blueprints?
[23:05] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: At this point, there is nothing for me that is blueprintable, except perhaps getting the interested parties together to discuss how best to enable as much audio hadrware for lucid as possible.
[23:06] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, yep
[23:06] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: My focus for this cycle will be bug fixing, with a lot of this work going to optimizing speech-dispatcher's pulseaudio output code, as that is well overdue to be done. Also making sure a11y works as well as it possibly can everywhere. Whilst upstrea are preparing to move to dbus for a11y, I want to stay with bonobo/orbit for lucid, since it works, and is stable.
[23:06] <rickspencer3> though maybe some discussion of UI may be in order
[23:06] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, what about accessability testing? maybe not worth a session
[23:07] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Right, I am happy to be in on such discussions, but UI stuff is not my strong point.
[23:07] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Not worth a session, but I certainly need to get the community stuff happening, which is my plan in the next week and a half before UDS.
[23:08] <rickspencer3> so maybe "Accessibility Community" topic?
[23:08] <TheMuso> Yeah thats a good idea.
[23:08] <rickspencer3> ok robert_ancell?
[23:09] <robert_ancell> my specs are:
[23:09] <robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DocumentScanning
[23:09] <robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/UserAccountManagement
[23:09] <robert_ancell> and doing gdm improvements (not yet speced but based off design teams Karmic spec)
[23:10] <robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience
[23:10] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, right, gdm improvements includes the refactoring we discussed, right?
[23:10] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes, will spec this week the details
[23:10] <rickspencer3> wow
[23:10] <rickspencer3> okay, thanks for that
[23:11] <rickspencer3> so, that was the content of the meeting, more or less
[23:11] <rickspencer3> I suppose you'll want to see what other people put in too
[23:11] <rickspencer3> pitti will be compiling and driving us to UDS
[23:11] <TheMuso> Great.
[23:12] <TheMuso> So to sum up for myself, no new features/new crack, but hardware enablement where possible, and stabilising what we have even more.
[23:12] <rickspencer3> and session with community team regarding accessibility community
[23:13] <TheMuso> Yep
[23:13] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, does saying "Accessibility Community" sound stupid? is there a better way to put it?
[23:13] <rickspencer3> for me to put it, I mean?
[23:13] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Probably something like Ubuntu accessibility community
[23:13] <rickspencer3> I'm thinking "the community of people who are passionate about accessibility"
[23:14] <rickspencer3> ok
[23:14] <TheMuso> Yeah that works
[23:14] <rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
[23:14] <TheMuso> np
[23:21] <wooboy77> hi!
[23:21] <wooboy77> can someone help me pls?
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> wooboy77 - #ubuntu for support
[23:30] <jcastro> seb128, I have your battery!
[23:32] <seb128> jcastro, you rock, thanks!


[00:01] <Viking667> Don't worry. Fixed in another way. "apt-get install adobe-flashplugin" cured it
[00:01] <Viking667> ... after a false detour down swfdec-mozilla. THAT didn't work at all well.
[00:02] <Viking667> All I got were either "Missing plugin" on webpages, or black squares where content was supposed to be.
[03:08] <likemindead> Shh.
[04:27]  * likemindead is tearing up some Phantasy Star IV in Gens/GS r7. :D
[05:10] <homebrewcider> I'm running xubuntu 10.04, I have windows xp on the system as well, in a dual boot situation, is there any way I can run windows at the same time in a (i think it's called) virtual environment?
[05:13] <moetunes> !vbox
[05:13] <moetunes> homebrewcider: ^^
[05:14] <homebrewcider> I'll look into it
[05:14] <homebrewcider> cheers
[05:18] <homebrewcider> can I run an existing windows installation though? or do I have to "install windows again?
[05:18] <moetunes> you to do a new install unfortunately afaik
[05:18] <moetunes> there is #vbox for help tho
[05:27] <likemindead> Also VMWare, right?
[05:32] <moetunes> yes there is vmware as well
[05:58] <ruien> homebrewcider: i tried to ghost my current install and put it inside of a VM, but couldn't get it to work. You'll probably need a fresh install.
[06:06] <homebrewcider> cheers
[06:22] <homebrewcider> installing other OS now
[06:22] <moetunes> luck :]
[06:24] <homebrewcider> don't wanna say too much yet, don't wanna jinx it, I've never done this before
[06:25] <moetunes> first time things are always scary ;]
[06:34] <joshua__> can you have desktop effects like compiz on xubuntu?
[06:34] <moetunes> joshua__: sure you can if the h/ware is capable
[06:34] <joshua__> ok, because xubuntu won't be complete for me without compiz :D
[06:34] <moetunes> there's youtube clips of xubuntu with compiz
[06:35] <moetunes> xubuntu has it's own compositor too - it doesn't do the cube tho
[10:21] <visitor1> horay no crash of desktop for at least 1 1/2 days
[10:22] <moetunes> :]
[10:29] <visitor1> its working fine :)
[11:48] <Sysi> my cd:s and usb sticks are working ♥
[11:51] <Sysi> heil hal
[11:56] <moetunes> heh
[12:38] <schlaftier> Hi there. I'm dualbooting on a Mac and put an entry in my fstab for the Mac disk partition (/media/mac). How can I make it show up on the Desktop and in Thunar's sidebar so that I can mount and unmount it from there?
[12:44] <tycho> i have a shortcut that dont work, in what folder can i change the folder run command
[12:49] <ochosi> schlaftier, i'm afraid you'd have to use thunar 1.1.0 to achieve that
[12:50] <ochosi> tycho, what exactly do you mean? keyboard shortcut?
[12:50] <schlaftier> ochosi: I see. So no matter how hard I try to tweak the fstab entry, it will not happen in 1.0.1?
[12:52] <ochosi> schlaftier, not *this* way. if you add the entry to fstab /media/mac can be automounted and you can add a shortcut by dragging and dropping /media/mac to thunars shortcut-sidebar, but you can't let that partition show up in the same way external media etc show up (including the un/mount context menu) in thunar 1.0.1
[12:53] <schlaftier> ochosi: That's okay for a while... It's just that I don't need /media/mac very often and keep it unmounted most of the time. But it's one line in the terminal, so no big deal :)
[12:53] <schlaftier> Thanks anyway!
[12:53] <ochosi> np
[12:54] <ochosi> schlaftier, if you want to try thunar 1.1.0 you can easily do that from this ppa: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa
[12:54] <schlaftier> ochosi: does it have a lot of dependencies?
[12:55] <ochosi> schlaftier, (but be warned, first-startup time of thunar is considerably slower due to gvfs, after that it's snappy again)
[12:55] <ochosi> schlaftier, not really
[12:55] <schlaftier> ochosi: I'll look into that, thank you
[12:55] <ochosi> schlaftier, you can easily downgrade again via synaptic if you like
[12:55] <ochosi> schlaftier, np, yw
[12:55] <schlaftier> ochosi: I wanted to try the ppa anyway due to the bug in the detailed view
[12:56] <ochosi> not sure that is fixed in the ppa version
[12:56] <ochosi> never tried tbh
[12:56] <ochosi> always have been using icon view
[12:56] <ochosi> how would i trigger that bug again?
[12:57] <visitor1> by using detailed view?
[12:57] <schlaftier> ochosi: switch to detailed list view (Ctrl-2 or from the view menu), open any directory. Now the directory list should freeze, i.e. not allow any more clicks
[12:57] <visitor1> it just hangs if you use detailed view
[12:57] <schlaftier> switch back to icon view, it should be working again
[12:58] <ochosi> ok, don't experience that bug with thunar 1.1.0
[12:58] <schlaftier> perfect :) I'm upgrading now
[13:04] <schlaftier> ochosi: It works, thanks a lot!
[13:05] <ochosi> schlaftier, good to hear :)
[13:06] <ochosi> schlaftier, if you wanna go crazy with xfce4.7, you can also add this ppa ;) https://launchpad.net/~mrpouit/+archive/ppa
[13:06] <ochosi> schlaftier, but take a careful look at the packages that didn't build
[13:06] <ochosi> you can see that here: https://launchpad.net/~mrpouit/+archive/ppa/+packages
[13:06] <schlaftier> ochosi: how unstable is it really?
[13:06] <ochosi> i've been using it for a while now, no problems
[13:06] <ochosi> apart from the packages that didn't build, they don't work for now
[13:07] <tycho> oschosi : menu shortcut
[13:07] <schlaftier> ochosi: Good. Because, considering that I'm dualbooting OS X and Xubuntu, you should notice that I like it when "everything just works" ;-)
[13:07] <ochosi> tycho, errm, be a bit more specific, what menu, what shortcut, what's the exact problem?
[13:07] <schlaftier> (Not that I mind manual tweaking and the occasional bug a lot, though)
[13:07] <ochosi> schlaftier, :)
[13:08] <tycho> i have a shortcut in a category on my menu list that dont wokr when i press it
[13:08] <tycho> wnat to check if the shortcut path is ok
[13:09] <ochosi> what shortcut? menu == applications menu?
[13:09] <tycho> yes
[13:09] <ochosi> did you add the shortcut manually?
[13:09] <tycho> yes
[13:09] <tycho> forgot the path
[13:09] <tycho> where they are
[13:09] <ochosi> /usr/share/applications
[13:11] <tycho> hmm theres supposed to be another folder
[13:15] <tycho> yeah
[13:15] <ochosi> ?
[13:17] <tycho> there is another meny applications flder somewhere
[13:17] <tycho> and it is there that shortcut is
[13:17] <tycho> need to remove it and put a new one there
[13:18] <tycho> *put a new one in /usr/share/applications
[13:18] <tycho> another guy here told me the path but i cant remeber it
[13:19] <ochosi> well there's also the user specific folder in ~/.local/share/applications
[13:20] <tycho> yes thats the one
[13:23] <tycho> ochosi how do i move a shortcut from those two
[13:23] <tycho> and delete
[13:23] <ochosi> from the one in your home folder you can do that as a normal user, for /usr/share/.. you have to be superuser
[13:24] <tycho> how do i become a superuser
[13:25] <tycho> !superuser
[13:25] <ochosi> !sudo
[13:25] <tycho> if i write sudo in the terminal does it affect the graphical interface
[13:26] <ochosi> tycho, if you really can't deal with the terminal you can also do "gksu thunar"
[13:26] <ochosi> but be careful not to delete any system folders then
[13:28] <tycho> thx
[13:28] <tycho> yup
[13:28] <tycho> do you know how to refresh the xfce menu
[13:28] <tycho> xcfe4-menu refresh something
[13:30] <tycho> woho now it works thx ochosi
[13:34] <ochosi> tycho, np, yw
[13:56] <kelvin1> üdvözlet
[13:58] <Sysi> !hu
[15:14] <ferrandu> hi to all
[15:14] <ferrandu> hi to all
[15:16] <Sysi> !hi
[15:27] <xubuntu919> hi
[15:28] <xubuntu919> anyone?
[15:28] <Sysi> !ask
[15:30] <xubuntu919> I'm trying dpkg  during istallation xubuntu 10.4 but I obtain error
[15:31] <xubuntu919> E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1
[15:32] <xubuntu919> please, any idea to end installation, thanks.
[15:32] <Sysi> installation gives that error?
[15:33] <xubuntu919> during first Installation from cd
[15:33] <Sysi> wubi?
[15:33] <hexmare> ello all
[15:34] <xubuntu919> It is an image downloaded from main site
[15:34] <Sysi> xubuntu919: did you check the disc for errors?
[15:35] <xubuntu919> no, I can check...
[15:35] <Annuals> hello
[15:35] <Annuals> I am new to Linux
[15:35] <Sysi> are you doing dualboot or to empty disc?
[15:35] <hexmare> have  abit of a stupid question here, I have created swap space on a flash drive, and I would like to mount this drive as extra swap and have this be the primary, I have looked around google and all that I have found thus far refer to perm solutions, whereas with me this drive will only be mounted while I am sitting at the computer
[15:35] <Sysi> !hi | Annuals
[15:36] <Sysi> hexmare: why would you like to use usb stick as overall swap?
[15:36] <Annuals> QUESTION:  Whenever I turn on my computer, the same few programs keep opening up.  Pidgin, Remote Desktop, and Firefox.  How can I make it so NO programs ever auto open on a normal bootup?
[15:37] <Annuals> none of them are checked in application autostart
[15:37] <Sysi> Annuals: save session where you don't have progras opened
[15:37] <Sysi> tap in logout dialog
[15:39] <hexmare> Sysi > Flash has a faster seek time
[15:39] <Annuals> so I should have save session always checked or unchecked?
[15:40] <Annuals> or just check it once, close everything, shut down, and then leave it unchecked?
[15:41] <Annuals> ?
[15:41] <Sysi> both work
[15:41] <Annuals> ok
[15:41] <Sysi> it should open last saved session
[15:41] <Sysi> hexmare: usb-sticks are slow, and swap is slow even on hdd
[15:41] <Annuals> oh
[16:20] <ucaledek> hi, I'm running into a snag with the file manager and can't pinpoint if it's a bug or my dumbness :)
[16:22] <ucaledek> anyone feel like lending a hand? I'm new to the xfce
[16:23] <Sysi> detailed wiew and you can't open folders?
[16:24] <ucaledek> I can get one level down, once, can't open filesd and if i go back up i get nothing openable
[16:24] <Sysi> yeah, known bug
[16:24] <ucaledek> ok, it's the detailed view?
[16:26] <ucaledek> cool, thanks a ton
[16:27] <likemindead> I think it'll work in detailed view if you make it single-click to open files.
[16:27] <likemindead> Strange bug, though.
[16:30] <Sysi> yeah, it actually works with that :D
[16:31] <Sysi> very interesting
[16:32] <likemindead> I still <3 Thunar and Xfce sooo much. :-)
[16:34] <Sysi> only thing i miss is volumes control like nautilus
[16:34] <Sysi> i *can* mount things in cli but i prefer clicking
[16:37] <Sysi> that one click thing btw is better than in dolphin
[16:39] <likemindead> http://www.passwordmeter.com/
[16:39] <likemindead> Derr... wrong window.
[17:11] <visitor1> you are right likemindead
[17:12] <likemindead> Eh?
[17:12] <visitor1> I think it'll work in detailed view if you make it single-click to open files.
[17:12] <visitor1> only i am not used to it lol
[17:20] <mac7> hi I installed xubuntu, multiboot system, but now windows cannot be booted, can someone help?
[17:22] <likemindead> Does a Windows option show up in GRUB, mac7?
[17:23] <mac7> likemindead: no, but the windowspartitions are available
[17:23] <mac7> and intact
[17:23] <mac7> I guess I mounted the / incorrectly
[17:25] <likemindead> Yeah, just use the Windows CD or the Ubuntu Cd to rebuild your boot manager.
[17:26] <mac7> oh shit
[17:29] <likemindead> Eh?
[18:29] <man2u> Hi, I installed xubuntu on my multiboot system, windows runs and can be selected in the bootmanager at startup. How can I add xubuntu in a bootmanager? I am now running the live xubuntu cd
[18:30] <Sysi> what kinda lines do you have there already?
[18:30] <Sysi> win or ubuntu bootloader?
[18:30] <man2u> xp & win7
[18:30] <man2u> windows bootloader
[18:31] <man2u> reinstalling xubuntu looks like not possible
[18:33] <Sysi> !grub2
[18:33] <man2u> ... takes quite a lot of time and energy to get xubuntu running on a multiboot system :-(
[18:35] <man2u> How can I start grub2???
[18:36] <Sysi> that multiboot sounds interesting, have you tried to google?
[18:36] <Sysi> #ubuntu should also know
[18:38] <Sysi> with dualboot you should install grub2, idk if multiboot is different
[18:38] <schlaftier> Since switching to the xubuntu-dev PPA, exo-open seems to be broken. Can anyone confirm before I file a bug? Calling exo-open for no matter what file results in a "choose app" dialog. However, Thunar opens files correctly.
[18:40] <man2u> ok, grub installed in the terminal, what should i key in?
[18:42] <Sysi> you should get menu when booting
[18:42] <man2u> huh? I run livecd now...
[18:43] <man2u> so I should reboot???
[18:43] <man2u> ....quite annoying system!
[18:45] <man2u> nobody knows the answer ok...than no more linux again
[18:47] <charlie-tca> schlaftier: You are calling 'exo-open URL'?
[18:49] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: quick example: exo-open /etc/fstab -- then a window appears saying "Open With: Open fstab and other files of type "plain text document" with:"
[18:50] <schlaftier> It will not remember the choice. However, Thunar opens it correctly without asking. This happens since using the xubuntu-dev PPA
[18:51] <man2u> OK, but I run livecd now
[18:51] <man2u> this is what it says
[18:51] <man2u> aufs / aufs rw 0 0
[18:51] <man2u> tmpfs /tmp tmpfs nosuid,nodev 0 0
[18:51] <man2u> /dev/sda11 swap swap defaults 0 0
[18:51] <man2u> /dev/sda8 swap swap defaults 0 0
[18:51] <charlie-tca> schlaftier: Looking at man exo-open, that should be correct
[18:52] <man2u> can someone take over my system online?
[18:52] <charlie-tca> It says it used 'xfce-preferred-applications' to open the files, in the case of /etc/fstab, none apply
[18:53] <charlie-tca> Perhaps it was broken and is now working correctly?
[18:53] <man2u> so I should reboot andlook?
[18:54] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: on my other Xubuntu box, "exo-open /etc/fstab" opens it in gedit without asking; just what Thunar would do when double-clicking
[18:55] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: I noticed this since apparently Chromium calls exo-open for downloaded files (or xdg-open which in turn calls exo-open)
[18:56] <charlie-tca> hmm, it opened fstab in gedit here
[18:56] <charlie-tca> and this is the computer I tested the ppa fix on
[18:56] <schlaftier> that's strange
[18:57] <charlie-tca> yeah, of course, gedit is my editor thunar open it in too
[18:57] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: That's exactly my point. Thunar opens /etc/fstab in gedit, but exo-open doesn't
[18:58] <charlie-tca> it does here
[18:58] <charlie-tca> 2010-05-22  11:56
[18:58] <charlie-tca>  charlie@wecan:  ~  $ exo-open /etc/fstab
[18:58] <charlie-tca> opened fstab in gedit
[18:58] <schlaftier> I will go back to the official repositories to see if it worked there
[18:59] <charlie-tca> okay
[19:07] <tycho> in the other language versions then english
[19:08] <tycho> are folders like music and documents
[19:08] <tycho> named music and documents in the system, or are they called what they appear?
[19:09] <tycho> if you understand what i am saying
[19:09] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: positive -- with the official repositories, exo-open calls gedit; with the PPA, it shows the "open with" window
[19:25] <tycho> or is all folders name called the same in the "core", and its just the graphical interface that names them music ?
[19:25] <tycho> having a little trouble putting a path because music in swedish is musik and thats whats is says on the folder......
[19:26] <tycho> but i think its correct. eh. sry.
[20:01] <charlie-tca> schlaftier: I don't know what to say. Here I am using the ppa and it works
[20:02] <charlie-tca> tycho: yes, they are what they are called. They are default for your use as required by the freedesktop.org standards
[20:06] <charlie-tca> tycho: those folders are created by Xubuntu as directed in /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults
[20:07] <tycho> charlie-tca thanks
[20:07] <charlie-tca> tycho: You are welcome
[20:33] <owen1_> new 9.10 install. keyboard shortcuts not working. (alt+f2 for example, not opening xfrun4). any ideas?
[21:06] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: I don't know what to say either. I wouldn't even know where the problem originates
[21:08] <charlie-tca> I think file a new bug report, but go back to the original report that we fixed with the exo- patch and reference the new report in a comment. See if we can get someone to confirm it that way?
[21:09] <charlie-tca> Original report was https://launchpad.net/bugs/520118
[21:52] <slow-motion> hi
[21:54] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: Is the right place for that bug report the xubuntu-dev PPA or the official Ubuntu Launchpad?
[21:55] <charlie-tca> we backported it, launchpad
[21:55] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: thanks
[21:55] <charlie-tca> thank you for filing that
[21:56] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: I tried to look into the code by the way but I got utterly confused tracing what actually happens when exo-open is called
[21:56] <charlie-tca> I leave that to mr_pouit
[22:01] <mr_pouit> no, it's not in the official archive, please don't file bugs in launchpad
[22:02] <mr_pouit> if it's the xubuntu-dev ppa and exo 0.5.2, you should try to file it directly on bugzilla.xfce.org
[22:06] <charlie-tca> If we backported it, isn't it in the archive for Maverick already?
[22:08] <mr_pouit> we backported nothing
[22:08] <mr_pouit> nothing from the xubuntu-dev ppa is in the archive
[22:09] <mr_pouit> that's why I think it's better to file bugs directly on bugzilla.xfce.org for that, rather than lp
[22:10] <charlie-tca> Agreed. If it is not a backport, that would be correct
[22:12] <schlaftier> oh, crap... I just filed it on Launchpad
[22:12] <schlaftier> What now?
[22:12] <schlaftier> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exo/+bug/584343
[22:15] <charlie-tca> That's fine
[23:35] <slow-motion> n8


[01:08] <Bashing-om> guiverc: ping :)
[03:22] <guiverc> sorry Bashing-om , can I still be helpful?
[03:27] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Maybe :D I got this issue with logging out of the hub - on 2 installs ( even clearing cache and cookies) - I get re-directed back to the loggedin-page. When you log onto https://discourse.ubuntu.com/ and logg off - what results on your system ?
[03:28]  * guiverc will try (and don't logout often).
[03:30] <guiverc> logout, login, nothing else was required (I'll have used my Ubuntu SSO on other firefox windows making it easy I guess)
[03:31]  * guiverc uses ubuntu SSO on askubu & other sites (beyond lp, iso.qa.ubu etc)
[03:31] <guiverc> do you have another browser you can try Bashing-om on your box?
[03:31] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Beats me then -- maybe a chromuium thing - I can see what Fire Fox does. I have not seen any other reports of a similar issue :(
[03:32] <guiverc> I'll have a look at chromium (have that running to, use that for anything oogle related)
[03:32] <guiverc> s/to/too
[03:33] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I was sorta pertirned - on 20.04 I have a chromium spin for a browser - 18.04 is chromium. same issue on both installs :(
[03:34] <guiverc> very much :(  I'm on hirsute which is usual; my chromium signs in & out easily (not impacting my firefox login)
[03:36] <guiverc> I may have accidently miss-clicked something on gdoc, and maybe a comment got dismissed; sorry.  (I was trying to click into a comment I was making.. instead one disappeared I think)
[03:36] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Now it is itching my curiosity bump - can not fathom what is going on with my SSO account for the hub . No other sites are affected.
[03:38] <Bashing-om> guiverc: well - the comments I have seen - so old ones will have little impact :(
[03:40]  * guiverc on phone; real life
[03:43] <guiverc> I have no ideas sorry Bashing-om .. I've had loads of issues with chromium since it converted to snap (mostly with config starting fresh; as if first run..)..  looking for something on fs
[03:48] <Bashing-om> Will try FF later - sure bugs me if I must remain logged into the hub when I am off_line.
[03:50] <guiverc> sorry I was looking for text file that reminds me how I 'restore' my config (snap chromium) hoping for clues, but haven't found it (always have issues finding it...  doesn't lose enough thing often enough for me to recall
[03:52] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Sorry too that I can not assist you with snap - as I do avoid them ( why I am running a chromium spin).
[03:53] <guiverc> I understand... I've been SO tempted... but given I often support where snap is used (lubuntu) I think I need to stick with it
[03:53]  * guiverc clarifies, no snaps in lubuntu, but it's the default chromium in any *buntu
[03:59] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Any hints here: https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/poking-around-your-chrome-os-device ?
[04:02] <guiverc> not a current problem... my notes are somewhere (exist in multiple locations as I've had to re-write it.. its one of thousands of .txt files in my /../lan/unix/ directory ; thanks
[04:13] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I too have that problem sometimes- I have a note somwhere - now just where did I leave it ?
[04:14] <guiverc> :)
[04:39] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Gdoc edits - see that you concur. please.
[04:45] <guiverc> I now see why you used Evaluational.. makes sense to me now..  what "LoCo" the only change?
[04:51] <Bashing-om> guiverc: redid the end of "My GNOME Tweaks" and some other minor things. "Evaluational" could be a better titleing. As is I see no need to make up additional summaries - But I do have some difficulties of how to present the issue better.
[05:15] <guiverc> sorry; typed I was away from keyboard ~15, but didn't press enter
[05:16] <guiverc> yep reads great Bashing-om (sorry for delay; I was >15 too, but worst forgot the enter)
[05:17] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Hey - all good in the end :P
[05:19] <Bashing-om> Backing out of all - rebooting to see what I can learn about my logout of the Hub sloppyation,
[14:47] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Call for Nomination: Local Communities Research Committee @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2021/01/09/call-for-nomination-local-communities-research-committee/ (by José Antonio Rey)
[17:03] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Firefox 86 Supports New Data-Saving Image Format @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/01/firefox-86-avif-image-support (by Joey Sneddon)
[21:15] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Alan Pope: My Crowdfunding Stats @ https://popey.com/blog/2021/01/my-crowdfunding-stats/
[22:44] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stuart Langridge: OpenUK Honours @ https://www.kryogenix.org/days/2021/01/10/openuk-honours/
[22:54] <Bashing-om> UWN: issue 665 up for review and final edits: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue665 :D
[23:16] <krytarik> Bashing-om: Only spotting "Monday 114th January 2021" so far. XD
[23:30] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Noted :(