[01:36] <RAOF> WTF Linux?
[01:37] <RAOF> If I get interrupted in the middle of recvmsg while receiving file descriptors do you _really_ dup() all those descriptors and give them to me twice?
[01:44] <duflu> RAOF: dup would mean different fd values... ?
[02:00] <RAOF> duflu: Precisely.
[02:00] <duflu> Umm kay
[02:00] <RAOF> YES
[02:01] <RAOF> This is, obviously, somewhat awkward.
[04:09] <duflu> RAOF: Could you take a glance at this? https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/fix-1339700-take2/+merge/226534
[04:16] <RAOF> duflu: Sure.
[04:23] <RAOF> duflu: Why do you think that “while(count > 0) cv.wait(lock);” would be more efficient than “cv.wait(lock, [](){ count > 0 });”?
[04:24] <duflu> RAOF: Because there's no lambda required. No callback into one, no inlining, and no extra work for the compiler. So even if it could be made as efficient as the "while" syntax it would still require a lot more work by the compiler to do so
[04:26] <duflu> Not to mention it's easier to read. There's always a loop to wait on a condition, so it's nicer to get people to read it as "while (something)" instead of "do_stuff(until not cond)"
[04:34] <RAOF> I don't know; wait(for_thing) pretty easy to understand.
[04:39] <duflu> After optimizations it should generate the same code. But the while syntax is even easier to read, and requires no compiler optimization effort to generate optimal code
[04:42] <RAOF> Roughly the inverse code, but pretty much, yeah.
[04:43] <RAOF> However, I think the lambda code is easier to read.
[04:43] <RAOF> So, personal taste :)
[04:45] <duflu> I did notice at some point in the past (Mir) developers preferred reading all logic lef-to-right in long lines. Prior to that most developers read top-to-bottom
[04:46] <RAOF> At a guess, that'd be the influence of functional programming..
[04:49] <RAOF> The lambda asserts state, the loop describes how to get that state..
[05:30] <duflu> RAOF: I think "while()" is a more reliable assertion in C-anything. But that's just me I guess
[05:31] <duflu> It's also clearer that the condition is tested while locked (and must be)
[05:32] <RAOF> It's not really an assertion, though; it's a proceedure.
[05:32] <duflu> RAOF: Knowing bare minimum about the C language it is a logical assertion :)
[05:33] <duflu> while (A) B; means A is no longer true after
[05:33] <duflu> And then, lunch
[06:28] <RAOF> Of *course* I can't reproduce that bug now that I've got some debugging in place. How stupid of me to presume I might be able to..
[12:05] <greyback> alf_: hey, nested servers GL contexts - they are not getting alpha buffers are they?
[12:08] <greyback> alf_: no they can, it just seems I'm not configuring things correctly to get a gl context with alpha
[12:09] <greyback> a nested server has the RGBA of the nested gl context decided based on the current format of the display output.
[12:09] <greyback> it seems the format QtComp is getting does not have alpha enabled
[12:11] <greyback> Qt also reports that the GL context it is getting has no depth of stencil buffers either - which is odd, as I would expect rendering errors as a result, but visually it looks ok
[12:12] <greyback> depth _or_ stencil
[12:13] <alf_> greyback: Are you referring to a context you get with mg::Display::create_gl_context() or the one that is current when you make_current()
[12:13] <greyback> alf_: an excellent question
[12:16] <greyback> alf_: yeah I'm referring to mg::Display::create_gl_context()
[12:17] <alf_> greyback: Ok, I see that's broken, it always returns zero alpha
[12:17] <alf_> greyback: (broken for nested)
[12:17] <greyback> alf_: ok, that was confusing me. Thanks!
[12:18] <alf_> greyback: what behavior do you need?
[12:20] <greyback> alf_: I just want to read the RGBA/depth/stencil buffer sizes into Qt. But I was doing that for a temporary context I created with mg::Display::create_gl_context - so Qt thought it had no alpha/depth/stencil buffer
[12:21] <greyback> but instead I can just read that from the current context when I call make_current()
[12:21] <alf_> greyback: do you get alpha for the context you get from make_current()?
[12:21] <greyback> alf_: I need to check, but I think so yes
[12:27] <alf_> greyback: as you mentioned, by default the surface/context RGBA a nested server uses matches the format of the real output framebuffer (in the system compositor), which is probably RGB. You can override this with the_display_configuration_policy(). Not sure if unity8 already does this. For depth/stencil you need to override the_gl_config()
[12:28] <greyback> alf_: we override the_gl_config() anyway
[12:28] <alf_> greyback: that's only for depth/stencil though
[12:28] <greyback> alf_: indeed. So you recommend we override the_display_configuration_policy too? In unity8?
[12:29] <alf_> greyback: question is, why do you need alpha for unity8's surface?
[12:30] <greyback> alf_: we don't actually. Qt does complain if depth & stencil missing though
[12:30] <alf_> greyback: ok, but you set that with the_gl_config(), so I am confused about the actual problem...
[12:32] <greyback> alf_: there may not be an actual problem, aside from what is returned by mg::Display::create_gl_context not being what I expected
[14:06] <kgunn> mterry: hey, are you available for some help/thots on debian control file changes?
[14:06] <mterry> kgunn, sure
[14:06] <alf_> mterry: Hi! I noticed that in USC trunk we are waiting for two frames to be posted before marking a session as ready. Is this a workaround for some unity8 issue?
[14:06] <mterry> kgunn, is this more ABI breakage stuff?  :)
[14:07] <mterry> alf_, it was a workaround for *something* -- without that we'd get black frames first.  Either Qt or Mir or some driver code was posting black frames
[14:07] <kgunn> mterry: nope, more like shuffling some libraries around to make them shared libraries
[14:07] <kgunn> https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/libmirshared/+merge/226670
[14:08] <alf_> mterry: ok, I guess I should keep it in the refactoring then :)
[14:09] <kgunn> mterry: ...oh, and alan_g brot up this bug...so maybe it is
[14:09] <kgunn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1293944
[14:09] <kgunn> but the discussion started with the mp :)
[14:09] <kgunn> and adding packages to the control
[14:10] <mterry> kgunn, so you need to add a new libmirshared1 package?
[14:11] <kgunn> mterry: yeah, effectively....and instead of just reading
[14:11] <kgunn> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
[14:11] <kgunn> and hoping to get it right, alan_g was wanting someone with some experience to possibly guide
[14:13] <mterry> kgunn, k
[14:13] <alan_g> mterry: there's more problems there than just adding a new library. We've existing libraries that ought (AFAICS) to be versioned.
[14:13] <mterry> alan_g, hello!
[14:13] <alan_g> mterry: hi
[14:13] <mterry> alan_g, like libmirplatform
[14:14] <alan_g> yes
[14:14] <alan_g> and mesa/libmirclientplatform.so
[14:14] <alan_g> and android/libmirplatformgraphics.so
[14:15] <mterry> alan_g, so many ABIs!
[14:15] <alan_g> I can (mostly) sort out the cmake side of things but the packaging files are "magic"
[14:16] <mterry> alan_g, well, since you'll be changing the name of the files it installs (they'll have ABI version numbers now), you at least get to avoid the pain of breaks/replaces
[14:16] <mterry> alan_g, do you have a branch that does the cmake side of things?
[14:17] <alan_g> mterry: I started with the new library. Not touched the existing ones yet. (Was trying to understand things first.)
[14:18] <mterry> alan_g, ok, let me look at existing packaging and recommend a thing
[14:18] <kgunn> mterry: yeah, thanks...i was thinking a brief review of where we are would be helpful
[14:18] <alan_g> And, maybe mesa|android/libmirplatformgraphics.so doesn't matter as it implements an API defined in libmirplatform.
[14:20] <mterry> alan_g, so libmirshared would be in practice an internal library, right?  no -dev?
[14:22] <mterry> alan_g, none of these libraries have .symbols files  :(
[14:22] <alan_g> mterry: I think it needs a -dev - as there are headers
[14:22] <mterry> alan_g, are they public headers though?  Like, will third-party packages build against it?  Doesn't hurt to have them be public, but just asking
[14:24] <alan_g> there are public headers (I'm looking to see how these get published now)
[14:27] <alan_g> Ah! they are installed by mircommon-dev.install
[14:28] <mterry> alan_g, ah... hm.  So you'll have to add a breaks/replace on libmirshared-dev
[14:29] <alan_g> Or rename to libmircommon ;)
[14:29] <alan_g> Which would work
[14:29] <mterry> alan_g, fair
[14:30] <mterry> alan_g, you'd probably want to rename mircommon-dev to libmircommon-dev then
[14:31] <alan_g> So that would need a replace anyway?
[14:35] <mterry> alan_g, yeah for its old name.  You might want to do all of Provides/Conflicts/Replaces for the old name, so the old package is removed on upgrade
[14:36] <alan_g> mterry: and I can just add "libmircommon1 (= ${binary:Version}), " to that and the libraries that use it?
[14:37] <mterry> alan_g, well not to the libraries that use it, they'll have automatic dependencies created by shlibs:Depends
[14:37] <mterry> alan_g, but for libmircommon-dev, yes
[14:38] <alan_g> OK. I'll try that for now. Is there an easy way for me to test/validate my changes?
[14:39] <mterry> alan_g, try an upgrade from a PPA and make sure it installs new packages fine and removes the old package...
[14:39] <mterry> alan_g, or you could use dpkg -i locally and make sure it complains correctly, but it won't automatically remove package, it will just error out
[14:40] <alan_g> mterry: I'm not at all familiar with packaging - how do I get it on a PPA?
[14:41] <mterry> alan_g, do you have a PPA associated with your LP user?
[14:41] <alan_g> Not if I had to do something to get one
[14:42] <alan_g> I see "Create a new PPA"
[14:42] <mterry> alan_g, yup, do that
[14:42] <mterry> alan_g, just make some random testing PPA for yourself
[14:43] <alan_g> done
[14:44] <mterry> alan_g, OK, now when you're ready, you can build a source package locally with debuild -S
[14:44] <alan_g> from the checkout root?
[14:45] <mterry> alan_g, yeah
[14:45] <mterry> alan_g, and then do...  dput ppa:alan-griffiths/NAMEOFYOURPPA ../mir_VERSION.changes
[14:45] <mterry> ah, junk-ppa I see
[14:45] <mterry> :)
[16:54] <alan_g> mterry: Sorry to keep bugging you. "debuild -S" gets as far as debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting...
[16:55] <mterry> alan_g, oh right...  do you have a gpg key that LP knows about?
[16:55] <alan_g> mterry: yes
[16:56] <mterry> alan_g, OK
[16:57] <mterry> alan_g, so do "dch -i" and put some dumb comment in there, make sure to change UNRELEASED to utopic
[16:57] <mterry> alan_g, then try debuild -S again
[16:58]  * alan_g looks guilty - he's still on trusty
[17:17] <mterry> alan_g, trusty!  tsk tsk  :)
[17:17] <mterry> alan_g, you can still push to the PPA from trusty, but you won't be able to test the upgrade path on your local machine that way
[17:32] <dandrader> dednick, is a MirPromptSessionEvent event tied to a surface? ie. does it happen in relation to a specific surface?
[17:32]  * dandrader clueless about prompt sessions
[17:36] <dandrader> alan_g, you there?
[17:38] <alan_g|EOD> dandrader: not really
[17:41] <dandrader> racarr__ ping
[17:41] <dednick> dandrader: not tied to the surface
[17:41] <dednick> dandrader: go directly to the client prompt session.
[17:41] <dandrader> dednick, oh....
[17:42] <racarr__> dandrader: Hi :) welcome back
[17:43] <dandrader> racarr__, hi
[17:43] <dandrader> and thanks :)
[17:44] <dandrader> racarr__, so in mir, MirEvents are always tied to a surface, right?
[17:44] <alan_g|EOD> mterry: something still went wrong - but I'll deal with it tomorrow
[17:44] <dandrader> racarr__, or at least that's what it seems to be from reading the client api
[17:45] <mterry> alan_g|EOD, k, poke me when I'm online
[17:48] <dandrader> racarr__, ie, MirEvents are always and will always be directed to some MirSurface of some client. i.e., the client never gets a MirEvent directly from the MirConnection or something. always through the handler set by mir_surface_set_event_handler
[17:50] <racarr__> dandrader: That sounds right to me
[17:53] <dandrader> racarr__, ok. but then we have MirPromptSessionEvent in MirEvent...
[17:53] <dandrader> racarr__, which, as dednick said, is not tied to a surface
[17:56] <racarr__> hmm I missed that
[17:56] <racarr__> *looks*
[18:03] <racarr__> dandrader: I wonder if those are just consumed in the client library? i.e. the lambda in MirPromptSession::MirPromptSession in the client library.
[18:05] <dandrader> racarr__, which then generates a mir_prompt_session_state_change_callback call to the api user?
[18:05] <racarr__> dandrader: SEems right
[18:06] <dandrader> racarr__, I guess so, but then it seems wrong to me to have that in a MirEvent which is supposed to contain events that reach the api user through mir_event_delegate_callback
[18:07] <dandrader> racarr__, would be like it's exposing an implementation detail to the API user
[18:08] <dandrader> racarr__, right?
[18:11] <racarr__> dandrader: I would agree yes
[18:11] <racarr__> I am not a MirPromptSession expert so to speak lol
[18:11] <dandrader> racarr__,  me neither. will talk to dednick tomorrow
[18:11] <racarr__> but yeah...I think MirEvent is a strange chocie
[18:11] <racarr__> ive always felt it was strange to put
[18:11] <racarr__> anything besides
[18:12] <racarr__> Input events in "MirEvent"
[18:12] <dandrader> racarr__, even surface resizes?
[18:12] <racarr__> I kind of think its better if you just have
[18:13] <racarr__> resize events or surface events or whatever
[18:13] <racarr__> but there is no need to group them all in the "all in one event"
[18:13] <racarr__> struct
[18:14] <dandrader> racarr__, you do if they are going all to be sent to the same callback
[18:14] <racarr__> maybe they shouldnt be though because
[18:14] <racarr__> the callback kind of has funny semantics right, i.e. called from different threads
[18:14] <racarr__> depending on the event type.
[18:16] <dandrader> racarr__, hmm, I think it's more like a design choice: "have 1 callback  and put a type field in the event" or "have one callback per event type and remove the type field"
[18:17] <dandrader> historically the first option is more popular
[18:18] <racarr__> I think its kind of a misguided attempt to save typing
[18:19] <racarr__> at the expense of a small amount of coupling (e.g. in ABI breaks) between
[18:19] <racarr__> what could be unrelated structs
[18:19] <racarr__> lol
[18:19] <racarr__> but in this situation it probably doesnt matter much

[20:22] <racarr__> yay
[20:22] <racarr__> finished one pass through the whole QPA
[20:41] <greyback> racarr__: thanks!
[20:47] <greyback> racarr__: do you have review comments?
[21:05] <racarr__> greyback: Just mailed them
[21:05] <racarr__> greyback: The most concerning thing for me is some of the signal usage
[21:06] <racarr__> and things that look like Q_EMIT address-of-value-reference-passed-by-mir
[21:06] <greyback> racarr__: what line numbers are you using?
[21:06] <racarr__> oh sorry I think all line numbers are in
[21:06] <racarr__> the respective implementation file
[21:07] <racarr__> for
[21:07] <racarr__> the class in latest rev
[21:07] <greyback> racarr__: ah those are the class name
[21:07] <greyback> ok
[21:07] <racarr__> yes sorry my review strategy
[21:07] <racarr__> was I wrote down all the classes
[21:07] <racarr__> shuffled them in to a random order
[21:07] <racarr__> and then started reading
[21:07] <racarr__> lol
[21:08] <racarr__> oh also paste
[21:08] <racarr__> is a little alarming
[21:08] <greyback> Q_EMIT of pointers to mir objects done with care, the objects those pointers point to, qtmir has a shared_ptr to, so the pointer should always be valid
[21:08] <greyback> racarr__: I /think/ paste is what we've had in unity-mir for some time :)
[21:09] <racarr__> yes ive just never reviewed it before lol
[21:09] <racarr__> it seems like it hsould at least have the focus check
[21:09] <greyback> focus check?
[21:09] <racarr__> You shouldn't be able to paste unless you are focused at least right
[21:10] <racarr__> otherwise why not just paste all the time and see what you get
[21:10] <racarr__> lol
[21:11] <racarr__> I saw  some of the Q_EMITs had comments like in SessionAuthorizer...but for example SurfaceConfigurator::attribute_set
[21:12] <racarr__> if someone connects to that with a queued signal it could crash right?
[21:13] <greyback> true. sadly there's no way to enforce a direct connection
[21:13] <greyback> but I think that class will go away, since now there's the SurfaceObserver
[21:14] <racarr__> oh yeah that should go away
[21:17] <greyback> requestAuthorizationForSession "but it seems like this non blocking behavior requires code connecting to the signal to make the right choice."  - it does indeed
[21:17] <greyback> one needs to use a direct connection to that signal to properly authorize sessions


[01:06] <daker> doctormo, check this branch when you are free
[01:06] <daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/erato/initial-django-project
[01:09] <doctormo> thanks daker
[01:09] <doctormo> daker: So you've moved the media and templates dir into the django dir, why?
[01:10] <daker> i think it should into the django dir
[01:11] <doctormo> daker: Any rationale? I've always seen them outside, because they were always sperate elements.
[01:15] <doctormo> Not that it matters I guess, just curious as to reorg
[01:15] <daker> i don't think it's problem
[01:16] <daker> since we can specify the the path for both templates and media in settings.py
[01:16] <chris3> hey guys. I'm looking to contribute to ubuntu. I don't have many talents, but I consider graphic design to be a strong point. How can I start helping?
[01:17] <daker> doctormo, i need to sleep
[01:17] <daker> see ya
[01:17] <doctormo> daker: Sure thing, we'll talk more about important things tomorrow. Thanks for the work
[01:17] <daker> np
[01:17] <daker> bye
[01:26] <chris3> Is there anything that needs work?
[01:33] <csmith1994> Is anybody out there?
[01:50] <doctormo> yes
[08:06] <vish> thorwil ¦ do you have any notes regarding the designhub? anything you are working from to design it?
[08:07] <thorwil> vish: yes. scattered on paper ;)
[08:07] <vish> thorwil ¦ drop them on etherpad :)
[08:08] <thorwil> we shouldn't call it "designhub"
[08:08] <vish> yea, just using it for familiarity ;)
[08:08] <vish> we can christen better it later...
[08:09] <vish> *it better
[08:09] <thorwil> erato or design center for now, i'd say
[08:10] <vish> k... erato it is ;)
[08:10]  * thorwil wonders at what point people started to think bug reports are just another kind of discussion forum
[08:12] <thorwil> maybe electro-shocks depending on the lack of new information or insights would help :>
[08:31] <thorwil> doctormo: thoughts on thumbnails: we might want to avoid having fixed resized versions of images in the database. would become ugly if we change our mind on the right sizes to use. instead, a width, a height or a preset like "small" could be part of the request url. results would be cached (potentially for a long time)
[08:53] <vish> thorwil , doctormo : filed an rt request for the art.ubuntu.com site , lets hope we get the namespace soon..
[08:55] <thorwil> vish: why not design.ubuntu.com and what about making the site distribution/project independent?
[08:55] <vish> thorwil ¦ how much of design in Ubuntu are we going to be doing? :)
[08:56] <thorwil> vish: applied to wallpapers, themes and icons art vs design is a question of mindset
[08:57] <vish> hmm.. might that be considered as something conflicting with design.canonical.com ?
[08:57] <vish> thorwil ¦ well, the LoCo and the QA teams are in the same namespace as well, while they cover other distros too
[08:59] <thorwil> vish: conflicting? you could as well argue it would be mirroring the canonical thing on the community side
[08:59] <vish> thorwil ¦ thats where i feel it might be considered as conflicting.. ;)
[09:06] <vish> thorwil ¦ i'm not picky about the name though.. i just thought it might be considered conflicting..
[09:07] <vish> and we had been traditionally an artwork team.. so it might be weird that we now try to get a design.u.c
[09:08] <thorwil> we have traditionally been, with few exceptions, a hot air team ;)
[09:10] <vish> :)
[10:43] <daker> good morning
[10:44] <thorwil> good morning daker
[12:20] <thorwil> vish, daker, doctormo: for planning and mockups: https://code.launchpad.net/~art-design-website/+junk/meta-design-center
[12:23] <daker> thorwil, good
[13:03] <thorwil> Schendje: for planning and mockups: https://code.launchpad.net/~art-design-website/+junk/meta-design-center
[13:03] <Schendje> thorwil: sweet!
[13:04] <Schendje> i'll have a look this afternoon :)
[13:04] <thorwil> Schendje: so far just a textfile. don't hesitate to add sketches/wireframes/mockups ...
[13:05] <Schendje> i'll see what i can do
[14:50] <doctormo> Morning all
[14:54] <daker> morning doctormo
[15:53] <doctormo> daker: Would you like me to merge your changes?
[15:53] <doctormo> thorwil: To answer your question from yesterday, there is no reason we can't have both or either.
[15:54] <daker> doctormo, i pushing an updated code
[15:54] <daker> doctormo, wait
[15:56] <doctormo> sure thing
[15:56] <daker> doctormo, ok merge
[15:56] <doctormo> https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/erato/initial-django-project/+register-merge :-)
[16:00] <daker> Wow conflicts :D
[16:01] <daker> doctormo, we will not use the old files
[16:02] <doctormo> daker: Hmm, how could there be a conflict? I didn't commit anything after the first commit.
[16:04] <daker> doctormo, can you clean lp:erato from all the files then put just  mine
[16:04] <doctormo> daker: I will, but please note that I'm unhappy about how you've clobbered the branch. This much happen again.
[16:04] <doctormo> must not*
[16:07] <daker> doctormo, sorry
[16:08] <doctormo> I'm trying to rebase, but it seems you've created a whole new branch set so I'll have to do it manually. This isn't a problem of course :-)
[16:08] <daker> yeah i have created a new branch
[16:09] <daker> that's why they were in conflicts
[16:10] <doctormo> Hmm, AUTHORS file has execute permissions, what platform are you using?
[16:10] <daker> actualy Lubuntu
[16:10] <daker> at home Ubuntu
[16:11] <doctormo> OK so I'm going to move mockups out temporarily until I can figure out what it's for. then commit everything.
[16:11] <chaotic>  the passport front?
[16:11] <chaotic> any joy on the passport front?
[16:11] <chaotic> wrong channel!
[16:12] <daker> if you are going to remove it then it should removed from INSTALLED_APPS
[16:13] <doctormo> daker: Is it a template for apps?
[16:14] <daker> it's an app
[16:14] <daker> mockups = artworks = assets
[16:15] <doctormo> daker: Yes, I see. And projects would be?
[16:15] <daker> also it's an app
[16:16] <daker> we will have projects, and each project has mockups
[16:17] <doctormo> daker: That's out of scope for the specification.
[16:18] <doctormo> This inital phaise should be easy and small, axis of objects are for later.
[16:22] <doctormo> thorwil: Of course the main reason for a limited inital scope is for design and production and make sure we're all on the same page. Your thoughts would be great.
[16:25] <thorwil> doctormo: i'm quite happy with just handling assets first, to expand from there
[16:26] <thorwil> daker: please don't rush into the organizational design ;)
[16:30] <daker> i didn't rush into anything
[16:30] <thorwil> daker: i was referring to  "we will have projects, and each project has mockups"
[16:31] <daker> thorwil, just a thought
[16:33] <thorwil> daker: at some point there shall be projects. and projects may include mockups. but initially, everything is just a not further specified asset
[16:33] <daker> thorwil, ok
[16:34] <doctormo> Pushed rev 2 of trunk.
[16:39] <daker> doctormo, thanks & sorry again
[16:41] <doctormo> daker: np, we're cutting our teeth on a new project and a new team, bound to happen once or twice.
[16:42] <daker> thanks
[17:04] <ronnie_vd_c> hi all
[17:05] <thorwil> welcome, ronnie_vd_c
[17:05] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, which version of launchpadlib do you use in the project, i get an error on: from launchpadlib.errors import HTTPError
[17:06] <ronnie_vd_c> ill have the version shipped in 10.10
[17:09] <ronnie_vd_c> thorwil, any idea?
[17:10] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: no, didn't peak into the code at all
[17:10] <ronnie_vd_c> daker maybe (the writer of the code)
[17:15] <doctormo> Hey ronnie_vd_c
[17:15] <ronnie_vd_c> Hey doctormo
[17:15] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: What we have is just the skelliton, it doesn't execute yet. That'll be cleared up in the ext couple of commits.
[17:15] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: But I do have a job for someone, if you'd like to do it?
[17:18] <ronnie_vd_c> doctorme, okay what can i do?
[17:22] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: The job is to go into each of the py files so far created and add a standard AGPLv3 header, copyright Martin Owens and Adnane Belmadiaf. Anything in common or users should have the same header but copyright loco directory with a link to their project.
[17:22] <doctormo> (because we didn't write those)
[17:23] <ronnie_vd_c> doctorme, is there an example of this header?
[17:24] <daker> doctormo, the code is executed :D
[17:24] <daker> you can see the homepage & login/logout
[17:25] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, what version of launchpadlib did you use in erato (im a new member of the project)
[17:26] <daker> lemme see
[17:27] <daker> 1.6.0
[17:27] <daker> can you pastebin the error ?
[17:29] <thorwil> doctormo: this didn't quite work out like i hoped for ... but does this reflect the desired structure of the initial site? http://www.foopics.com/showfull/cd144d2b8cdc51783be8c7d40060413a
[17:33] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, i get the error in Eclipse: Unresolved import: HTTPError
[17:33] <ronnie_vd_c> the line: from launchpadlib.errors import HTTPError
[17:33] <ronnie_vd_c> in common/launchpad.py
[17:35] <ronnie_vd_c> i have 1.6.1
[17:43] <ronnie_vd_c> My first commit is done. it contains some fixes in indentations, imports and i added some models.
[17:44] <ronnie_vd_c> ill have to go now, ill hope to be back in one/two hours
[17:47] <daker> ronnie_vd_c, sorry i am at work
[17:48] <daker> i can help in few hours
[17:53] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Just finished doing the dishes.
[17:53] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: I'll merge in your work and we'll work on errors some.
[17:53] <doctormo> daker: You get the login screen from trunk?
[17:54] <ronnie_vd_c> im back already. was called for computer problems. 81 cookies instead of virusses, so problem was very quick solved
[17:56] <daker> wait til i come back to home in 3hours
[18:00] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: This has a good example:http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~doctormo/us-ma-loco-site/trunk/annotate/head%3A/UbuntuMaWebsite/urls.py
[18:00] <doctormo> of headers
[18:00] <doctormo> thorwil: That looks like a very good workflow, yes. Now we just need some fleshy designs to go on the bones :-)
[18:00] <ronnie_vd_c> thx doctormo. I see a strange diff file from my merge. maybe eclipse did some unusual things...
[18:01] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Have you used ground control at all?
[18:01] <ronnie_vd_c> ground control?
[18:01] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: http://ground-control.org/ I made it because I got sick of eclipse.
[18:03] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, i used bzr from commandline. but i think when importing the files in eclipse that eclipse changed some files
[18:05] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, ground-control gives: Broken Bzr Branch Nor a branch "bzr+ssh://.../~art-design-website/erato/trunk/"
[18:06] <ronnie_vd_c> doctromo, should # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-    go before or after the header?
[18:10] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, the commit could be right. i checked out from the branch from daker, which was not merged before into erato
[18:11] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: daker's branch isn't trunk, so you'll have to grab trunk and do the work over.
[18:11] <doctormo> (or copy the files over, making sure there isn't any weirdness)
[18:12] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: that error was fixed on my ppa, launchpad changed and hurt gc :-( ppa:doctormo/groundcontrol
[18:14] <ronnie_vd_c> have to restart, kernel updates. brb
[18:21] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: welcome back
[18:21] <ronnie_vd_c> :D
[18:24] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: If you make a new branch based on trunk, you might want to remove your current one in launchpad to keep it all clean and prevent more people from branching from this set.
[18:25] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo. Ok, i removed it already from local drive (copied file i modified). ill remove the LP one too
[18:26] <doctormo> daker: Same thing for yours, if you can deactivate your inital branch and then we have a clean single branch set system.
[18:26] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Thanks!
[18:29] <daker> doctormo, ok i'll do it
[18:31] <doctormo> Great, I'm going to be working on the asset app. Should be easy. Without a design I'll do simple html.
[18:34] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, does the header come before or after # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
[18:35] <ronnie_vd_c> en before or after: #!/usr/bin/python
[18:42] <thorwil> doctormo: maybe i manage to start with a skeleton mockup today. though on my own, i would just do simple, clean html. btw, a flavour of xhtml or html5?
[18:43] <daker> xhtml :D
[18:43] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: After
[18:43] <doctormo> thorwil: html5, but I'm not exactly bothered either way. If we ever wanted to do videos though.
[18:44] <ronnie_vd_c> thorwil, based on the html5 of the community theme?
[18:44] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: i would like to keep the site neutral
[18:44] <ronnie_vd_c> thorwil, ok
[18:47] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: there are not many active designers, fences around various distributions and projects won't help. i hope for some cross-pollination and growth of a wider community
[18:48] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, howto ignore files with ground-control?
[18:49] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Adding to the ignores file isn't possible atm, but you can ignore new additions with the ignore button.
[18:52] <ronnie_vd_c> which ignore button, i didn't see one
[18:53] <vish> thorwil ¦ in addition to http://www.foopics.com/showfull/cd144d2b8cdc51783be8c7d40060413a , for members : commenting on other assets and voting up/down of other comments
[18:53] <ronnie_vd_c> ah got it. (after pushing commit)
[18:54] <vish> thorwil ¦ that way the best constructive comments filter to the top..
[18:54] <thorwil> vish: it's meant to match the first basic version. commenting and moderation will require some thought
[18:55] <vish> thorwil ¦ well, critiquing is part of building a better community which is think we need more than ever now :)
[18:56] <vish> or maybe i understood you wrong.. ;)
[18:57] <thorwil> vish: yes. the diagramm is meant to match doctormo's bare bones initial just upload and browse
[18:57] <thorwil> vish: i agree on the importance of commenting. that's exactly why i say: it needs thought
[18:59] <thorwil> vish: on a site like digg or reddit, once in a while people will complain that too many other vote up/down based on agreement, not on the merit of arguments
[19:00] <vish> thorwil ¦ right, but what i meant was : when we open it to public, commenting should be part of site from day one, since initial curiosity will drive in more members/users, and when the commenting is not there it will be incomplete..
[19:01] <vish> thorwil ¦ but i do agree we need to decide how to vote up/down and make it effective
[19:02] <vish> stackexchange has a voting rep system
[19:02] <vish> new users can *not* vote immediately..
[19:03] <vish> they must provided other effective answers or something to gain rep
[19:03] <vish> and that too, voting up needs a rep of 15 and voting down needs a higher rep
[19:03] <thorwil> vish: for the assets themselves, once there are associated briefings, we could ask for votes on whether and how well the asset matches the briefing. to discourage simple, highly subjective like/dislike reactions
[19:04] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, copyright and gplv3 done
[19:04] <vish> thorwil ¦ yep, i think we would need to moderate a lot initially, to filter cruft ;)
[19:05] <thorwil> vish: wouldn't hurt to study and compare various approaches to commenting and moderation, if you are so inclined :)
[19:05] <vish> will look into it ;)
[19:05] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Great, I'll commit on your merge request.
[19:05] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Did you find groundcontrol useful?
[19:06] <ronnie_vd_c> not yet. it could not do a merge proposal
[19:06] <ronnie_vd_c> ill had to do it on LP itself
[19:06] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, i got 6 Unresolved import errors. mainly because the project imports does not start with art_website
[19:06] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Got those in ground control?
[19:07] <ronnie_vd_c> no, in eclipse (from the code itself)
[19:07] <ronnie_vd_c> http://i.imgur.com/IzWkg.png
[19:08] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, screenshot from merge request screen from ground control: http://i.imgur.com/JXAWF.png
[19:10] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, oops did not add the copyright and gpl. did it in the old code. ill upload them soon
[19:10] <ronnie_vd_c> current merge only has the updated .bzrignore
[19:17] <vish> https://help.launchpad.net/logo/submissions  !!!!!
[19:18] <vish> they used something other than wiki for submissions? or …
[19:19] <ronnie_vd_c> i guess that help.launchpad.net uses wiki like software
[19:19] <thorwil> vish: it is a wiki
[19:20] <vish> oh then all is well ;)
[19:23] <doctormo> wow that's a lot of submissions.
[19:26] <thorwil> doctormo: well, it was a chance to create the official LP logo plus some bag or something as price
[19:53] <daker> back
[19:53] <daker> doctormo, can i push directly or just propose merges ?
[19:53] <doctormo> Hey daker, we should all be doing merge requests (even me) to make sure our code is awesome.
[19:54] <daker> oki
[19:54] <doctormo> You don't mind doing reviews of my patches do you?
[19:57] <daker> i can review theme
[20:01] <daker> keep in mind that we need to keep clean and we should remove useless files
[20:01] <daker> i mean the code :)
[20:07] <daker> doctormo, Copyright 2008, Martin Owens. ?
[20:09] <ronnie_vd_c> daker: didnt i change that?
[20:10] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, my bad
[20:10] <daker> \o/
[20:18] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, new merge should be OK: https://code.launchpad.net/~ronnie.vd.c/erato/trunk/+merge/38962
[20:18] <daker> oki man
[20:42] <daker> ok new merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adnane002/erato/designhub/+merge/38971
[20:43] <daker> ronnie_vd_c, try to run this branch lp:~adnane002/erato/designhub
[20:43] <daker> there is an INSTALL file there
[20:44] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, i cant even run mine :(
[20:44] <daker> why ?
[20:44] <ronnie_vd_c> ImportError: No module named art_website
[20:44] <daker> it's fixed here :) lp:~adnane002/erato/designhub
[20:45] <daker> follow INSTALL instructions
[20:45] <ronnie_vd_c> ah ok.
[20:47] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, im not very familiar with bzr. how can ik add your brnach?
[20:47] <daker> open the terminal
[20:48] <daker> then $ cd /path/to/your/projects/folder
[20:48] <daker> $ bzr branch lp:~adnane002/erato/designhub
[20:48] <ronnie_vd_c> into the same folder i have my branch?
[20:48] <daker> no
[20:48] <ronnie_vd_c> ah
[20:49] <doctormo> daker: I completely agree, down with useless code!
[20:49] <doctormo> and so on
[20:50] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, runs without errors
[20:50] <daker> good
[20:51] <daker> then follow INSTALL
[20:51] <ronnie_vd_c> although: local_settings.py.sample is called local_settings.template
[20:52] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: That's me, I renamed it because sample isn't what it is.
[20:52] <doctormo> my fault*
[20:57] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, if you have time, you could accept both merges
[20:57] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: I am working through it now.
[20:59] <doctormo> daker: Why do you insist upon moving around the files? I can't merge in your branch now.
[21:00] <ricardo> no me puedo conectar con wicd me sale que la contraseña no es la valida
[21:01] <daker> doctormo, the media & templates folders should inside art_website project
[21:01] <doctormo> daker: According to what?
[21:02] <doctormo> All django projects I've ever seen bar the loco directory have the media and templates directory outside.
[21:02] <daker> according to the django docs
[21:02] <doctormo> But worse than that, you did it without even talking about it
[21:02] <doctormo> No message: "Now see here doctormo, your off your game with this one, see the docs here clearly say X, so I'm making a merge proposal to put them back"
[21:03] <daker> doctormo, no LD have them inside :)
[21:03] <daker> doctormo, ask the developers
[21:03] <doctormo> daker: Yes, I said _except_ for the loco directory.
[21:03] <doctormo> That's the only project I've seen it done that way.
[21:03] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, do you know the difference between python-django-openid-auth and python-django-auth-openid
[21:06] <daker> ronnie_vd_c, no
[21:07] <ronnie_vd_c> ok :)
[21:08] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Great, mering your changes.
[21:10] <doctormo> Do we know where the users app came from?
[21:11] <daker> doctormo, from LD
[21:11] <daker> if you are runing my branch
[21:12] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, ground-control gives no button to update my code. only revert, but there is nothing to revert and commit changes, but there is nothing to commit
[21:12] <daker> doctormo, go to <IP_ADDRESS>:8000/openid/login
[21:12] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: If you've submitted a merge request, then just delete and create a new branch for a new bit of work.
[21:13] <doctormo> (you guys have both done branch/merge workflow before right?)
[21:13] <daker> doctormo, yep
[21:13] <doctormo> daker: No just the one in trunk, which is from your original branch.
[21:13] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, not very much
[21:14] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, if i have to delete the branch and download the new one, i have to reconfigure eclipse each time
[21:15] <thorwil> doctormo: added not-ready-yet work on a mockup to https://code.launchpad.net/~art-design-website/+junk/meta-design-center
[21:15] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:15] <doctormo> Eclipse is a bit broken when it comes to dealing with launchpad workflows. :-/
[21:15] <doctormo> thanks thorwil, goodnight!
[21:17] <ronnie_vd_c> any good IDE's that can do the job?
[21:17] <daker> gedit :)
[21:17] <ronnie_vd_c> :(
[21:18] <ronnie_vd_c> i really like the error checking and auto complete in eclipse
[21:19] <ronnie_vd_c> i use gedit for templates (8 spaces long indentation (tabs) instead of 4 spaces indentation). Dont like to constantly switch these settings
[21:19] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, doctormo: any good advise?
[21:20] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: I know, I got used to those features too, but eclipse became too much of a problem to fight.
[21:21] <doctormo> I use vi now for most code, gedit too.
[21:21] <daker> ronnie_vd_c, bluefish ?
[21:22] <ronnie_vd_c> ill have a look at bluefish
[21:35]  * ronnie_vd_c is testing komodo now
[21:37] <doctormo> daker: The code we've got, does it require the lp_data messing about?
[21:39] <daker> when you run the management command "update-profiles" it will create a lp_data (cache) folder
[21:39] <doctormo> If it's trouble I might grab the code from http://ubuntu-massachusetts.com/
[21:40] <doctormo> Or is this for avatar images and such? *confused as to the need*
[21:41] <daker> it's for realnames
[21:41] <daker> it will pick all the usernames (lp login) and look for there Real names :)
[21:42] <daker> then store them in the database
[21:42] <doctormo> Isn't that what the openid passes, so there's no need for cache stuff.
[21:42] <doctormo> Or at least that's what the ma website does.
[21:43] <daker> i think lp provide only the Username
[21:45] <daker> doctormo, i think the ubuntu ma code is good it grabs the realname and the email
[21:50] <doctormo> daker: Your thoughts on if we should combine the best parts of the two or use one of them in preference?
[21:52] <daker> if your code can pick information for lp(real name,email) then will use it
[21:52]  * ronnie_vd_c says goodbye to eclipse and stats using gedit
[21:53] <ronnie_vd_c> launchpad only gives the real name and email to trusted sites (i red a while ago)
[21:53] <daker> with the LD one we have to update the profiles with cronjob
[21:54] <ronnie_vd_c> but i guess launchapdlib can retrieve the real name from the username...
[21:55] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: It can.
[22:11] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, new merge. fixed the static media url in urls.py
[22:14] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Waiting for the merge request to come in.
[22:18] <ronnie_vd_c> is "def is_user_on_loco_council(user):" needed in this project?
[22:19] <doctormo> nope
[22:19] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Did you make a new branch for your new changes?
[22:19] <ronnie_vd_c> yes, but with the same name i thought
[22:19] <ronnie_vd_c> but the diff looks OK
[22:20] <ronnie_vd_c> https://code.launchpad.net/~ronnie.vd.c/erato/art-design-website/+merge/38989
[22:20] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: Different names are traditional, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
[22:21] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, next time ill be using different names then. is the function "def is_team_member(user, team):" also not needed anymore?
[22:21] <doctormo> I don't think so
[22:23] <ronnie_vd_c> mugshot and timezone can be handy to have. ill leave those untouched. the previous mentioned functions ill remove OK?
[22:23] <doctormo> ok
[22:34] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: You should be able to use the WEBSITE_PATH variable instead of ../
[22:34] <ronnie_vd_c> just came to the same conclusion when reading the code
[22:35] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, ill change it and do a new merge soon
[22:35] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: I haven't merged your new one yet, there is still time
[22:42] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo: done
[22:59] <ronnie_vd_c> daker, doctormo: I have to sleep now (european/dutch time), see you tomorrow
[23:17] <doctormo> Time to go myself, I'll get everything merged and see youall tomorrow.


 i'm having this error after upgradinf from kubuntu 21.04 to 21.10. how do i fix it? : https://irc-attachments.kde.org/d88351f6/Screenshot_20211017_015855.png
[02:00] <valorie> @veektony it looks as if you didn't do a full-upgrade before you tried do-release-upgrade?
[02:01] <valorie> IMO you might still be able to fix the install by full-upgrade, do-release-upgrade, and dpkg-reconfigure a few times
[02:01] <valorie> or even more than a few times
[02:01] <valorie> might be easier to do a re-install
[02:02] <valorie> it sort of depends on how stubborn you are
[02:02] <valorie> <--- very stubborn
 I've tried to restore my backup
[08:38] <user|13> Hello,
[08:39] <user|13> I was trying to upgrade from 21.4 to 21.10, and I had some errors, and the upgrader advised I report them
[08:39] <user|13> Should I send an email or type them out here?
 Is there any way to clear clipboard automatically?
 If you are using Xorg (which is still the default), there should be plenty of solutions (just search for it in your favorite search engine) (re @GhostMcT: Is there any way to clear clipboard automatically?)
 Someone know, how to open this PDF with a open source PDF-Viewer? : https://irc-attachments.kde.org/ba034946/file_48454.jpg
[12:48] <mparillo> I have not tried it myself, but google sends me to: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/265845/pdf-reader-that-supports-xfa-forms-while-adobe-reader-for-linux-is-not-supporte#342128
 Firefox Supports it since very recent version!
[12:49] <mparillo> Excellent, because I think when I read Master PDF Editor for Linux has a free and a commercial version, that only means that the free version is a no-cost version.
[12:50] <mparillo> I have a local tax jurisdiction that has fill-in tax forms that I could fill in, and print on Linux, but when I tried to save it, my entries would not save.
 Yes, these files were really a pain in the ***. I ususally used a VM with Windows+Adobe for that
 Adobe really sucks trying EEE strategy of Microsoft there
 Best video editor for Linux?
 If you do not encounter bugs: kdenlive
 If you need something more reliable: blender
[13:20] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 I've got 4gigs of ram and intel i3 , will that even run , I haven't notice any lags or slowdown on kubuntu whatsoever (re @Halis: If you do not encounter bugs: kdenlive
 If you need something more reliable: blender)
 I've got 4gigs of ram and intel i3 , will that even run , I haven't noticed any lags or slowdown on kubuntu whatsoever (re @Halis: If you do not encounter bugs: kdenlive
 If you need something more reliable: blender)
 kdenlive should run. However the more complex you edit the video, the more laggy it can get. However they have a support group, where you can ask for more help: @kdenlive (re @blinkengine: I've got 4gigs of ram and intel i3 , will that even run , I haven't noticed any lags or slowdown on kubuntu whatsoever)
 For example you can reduce the resolution of the preview to increase performance
 Thanks , I was thinking about openshot as well but it looked very basic , I'll give kdenlive and shotcut a go later tomorrow (re @Halis: kdenlive should run. However the more complex you edit the video, the more laggy it can get. However they have a support group, where you can ask for more help: @kdenlive)
 Just make sure, you are using their appimage or another way to get the latest version of kdenlive (re @blinkengine: Thanks , I was thinking about openshot as well but it looked very basic , I'll give kdenlive and shotcut a go later tomorrow)
[15:55] <mybalzitch> this new kubuntu release sure is acting weird. it decided firefox wasn't installed anymore, then any time I tried to open a url highlighted by konsole it'd download it via kioexec, even though the default browser changed to chrome. so I reinstalled firefox (even though it was installed) then I installed the firefox deb instead of the snap, and now the system let me set firefox as the default web
[15:56] <mybalzitch> browser, but when I click on links in konsole they open in builder
[16:02] <mybalzitch> fixed. needed to tweak a bunch of xdg-mime stuff
[16:25] <david__> Got a wierd question. I installed ubuntu, then installed kubuntu desktop on top of it and loved it. I would like to remove gnome, would this break my system?
 Try shotcut. (re @blinkengine: Best video editor for Linux?)
 It sure would , it did break mine , so I had to do all over again but this time I installed kubuntu iso (re @IrcsomeBot: <david__> Got a wierd question. I installed ubuntu, then installed kubuntu desktop on top of it and loved it. I would like to remove gnome, would this break my system?)
[16:50] <imam> wew
[17:27] <mybalzitch> ok so, since this update KDE seems to want to open http://*.jpg urls in gwenview/okular, instead of firefox. How do I get firefox to handle all http urls
 I guess, within Firefox. There are many settings how to handle different files
[19:06] <mparillo> I agree, start with FF first, but for a KDE browser, I would see if you can change the System Settings > Applications > File Associations.
[19:40] <valorie> @blinkengine - removing gnome stuff will not break your system
[19:40] <valorie> possibly easier to just do a backup and install kubuntu afresh
 If someone also has problems with wayland in virt-manager that everything is blurry: virt-viewer works fine with wayland
 If someone has also problems with wayland in virt-manager that everything is blurry: virt-viewer works fine with wayland
[21:56] <mybalzitch> No, its the kioexec handler, happens for all links clicked within konsole
[21:56] <mybalzitch> firefox works just fine for clicking links within itself