[10:27] <rmg51> Morning
[10:51] <JonathanD> Morning.
[13:08] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples and dogs
[13:57] <InHisName> What no turkeys, ducks, bears, dogs, etc ?
[13:57] <InHisName> Ooops, scratch the dogs
[13:57] <InHisName> btw good morning
[14:47] <MutantTurkey> still kinda trying to figure out what to do about this desktop
[14:47] <MutantTurkey> https://twitpic.com/c17092
[14:47] <MutantTurkey> its basically unusable
[14:48] <TheLordOfTime> e: unreadable
[14:48] <TheLordOfTime> but hey i see you :P
[14:48] <TheLordOfTime> MutantTurkey:  parts?
[14:49] <MutantTurkey> ?
[14:49] <TheLordOfTime> if your system's not usable, sell it as parts
[14:49] <MutantTurkey> it's for work. they just gave it to me
[14:51] <TheLordOfTime> ah.
[14:52] <TheLordOfTime> well E: Unreadable Image, so...
[14:52] <MutantTurkey> ?
[14:52] <JonathanD> I hate shiny monitors.
[14:53] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: jedijf could use your advice
[14:54] <JonathanD> ABout?
[14:55] <MutantTurkey> my new desktop has a glossy display, so much so that I can barely use it. I want to have my boss return it but think it might be overstepping
[14:55] <MutantTurkey> do you think it would be fine to demand a swap?
[14:56] <MutantTurkey> its going to make my eyes fall out
[14:56] <JonathanD> "This display hurts my eyes" is a reasonable complaint, in my opinion.
[14:57] <JonathanD> The best solution is to convince some other poor soul how awesome it is, and trade it with them for theirs.
[14:57] <MutantTurkey> They'll have none of it
[14:57] <MutantTurkey> I already triee
[14:57] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: did you see the link ^^? that's a picture of it
[14:57] <JonathanD> I did see the link.
[14:57] <JonathanD> it hurt MY eyes.
[14:58] <JonathanD> I'm not sure what LCD maker sits down and says "You know what would make this monitor better? If I could see myself in it."
[14:58] <MutantTurkey> http://pastebin.com/h70ARd5S
[14:58] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: it's great for viewing videos on really, and anything not black
[14:58] <MutantTurkey> but when you sit at a terminal all day....
[14:58] <MutantTurkey> that is a paste of my propsed email
[14:59] <MutantTurkey> does that seem good?
[14:59] <JonathanD> Yes.
[14:59] <JonathanD> I can clearly see your phone, you, and everything around you in the photo :P
[14:59] <MutantTurkey> I can spy on my neighbors 20 feet away easily
[15:00] <MutantTurkey> ok sent
[15:01] <JonathanD> One thing I do like about thinkpads is they offer non-gloss screens.
[15:01] <MutantTurkey> of course, the matte screen was my major attraction to my thinkpad
[15:08] <MutantTurkey> JonathanD: I think it will go over well
[15:08] <MutantTurkey> just slightly annoying
[15:15] <InHisName> Trade it with someone that has a 19" 1280x1024 type screen, they just might overlook the reflections to go higher res.
[15:15] <InHisName> Downgrading would help make you happy too
[15:23] <MutantTurkey> I have another monitor I just got that is 23 inches!
[15:23] <MutantTurkey> so I have another seperate monitor that rocks
[15:24] <MutantTurkey> i'm looking to trade though definitively
[16:35] <InHisName> I got a 19" monitor that I'd consider trading.  Buuuut, that one does not belong to you but the company you work for, right ?
[19:16] <MutantTurkey>  howdy all
[19:17] <JonathanD> hey
[19:18] <MutantTurkey> how goes it? I got on the subway and it was cold, I pop out at 30th street and it's 40 degrees!
[19:19] <JonathanD> Goes well
[19:20] <MutantTurkey> good :)
[19:37] <MutantTurkey> ls
[19:37] <MutantTurkey> whoops
[19:40] <MutantTurkey> ls
[19:40] <MutantTurkey> grr
[19:40] <TheLordOfTime> MutantTurkey.Destroy(computer)
[19:40] <TheLordOfTime> :P
[19:40] <MutantTurkey> yes
[19:40] <MutantTurkey> yes
[19:40] <MutantTurkey> drop tables
[19:43] <waltman> Little Bobby Tables
[19:45] <MutantTurkey> The mouseovers are always the best though
[19:45] <MutantTurkey> I really like the what-if lately
[19:45] <MutantTurkey> that's awesome!
[19:46] <MutantTurkey> I enjoyed the recent one about sneaker net, because for our mirrors at trinity, when there is a new mirror going online, we mail them a hard drive
[20:38] <MutantTurkey> waltman: can I get some matlab help? has to do with return values
[20:39] <MutantTurkey>  45 [loadfasta,~]=fastaread(fastafilename);
[20:39] <waltman> ok, if it's quick...
[20:39] <MutantTurkey>  46 numreads=numel(loadfasta);
[20:39] <MutantTurkey> line 45, what does that mean? the fasta read function returns a struct with two fields
[20:40] <MutantTurkey> is that just capturing only one field? the first one?
[20:41] <MutantTurkey> nevermind, it defintely is that :-) ok you are awesome anyway
[20:41] <waltman> On 45, it means the function returns 2 variables, but you only care about the first one
[20:41] <waltman> ~ is a place holder meaning "ignore this return value"
[20:42] <waltman> you don't need the square brackets if it only returns a single value, so that's what's going on with 46.
[20:42] <MutantTurkey> gotcha
[20:42] <MutantTurkey> thanks
[20:42] <waltman> I just discovered that feature a day or two ago
[20:43] <MutantTurkey> pretty cool actually
[23:14] <MutantTurkey> I have to many context switches in a day. It really throws me off
[23:14] <MutantTurkey> btw my solution was to just put the new desktop under the table and pretend it's a normal tower
[23:22] <waltman> MutantTurkey: any way you can turn off the light over your monitor?
[23:23] <MutantTurkey> waltman: the ones directly above me and behind were out and the shades were closeed
[23:23] <waltman> and you still had all that glare?
[23:25] <MutantTurkey> yes!
[23:25] <MutantTurkey> it is super glarey
[23:26] <waltman> crazy
[23:26] <MutantTurkey> I just put it under the desk
[23:26] <MutantTurkey> simple solutio
[23:30] <waltman> you put your monitor under your desk?
[23:31] <MutantTurkey> it's an all-in-one pc
[23:31] <MutantTurkey> I just put the whole thing under the desk
[23:31] <MutantTurkey> and used another monitor
[23:31] <waltman> so how do you...aha.
[23:31] <MutantTurkey> muahahahahahaha
[23:38] <MutantTurkey> this job is good though for my resume because it has serious programming and sysadmin parts
[23:38] <MutantTurkey> so I can pursue either easily


[04:32] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:37] <Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje ; May your day be blessed with warmth and sunshine :)
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om tnx :p
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> i watched snowden the movie yesterday
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> nice piece of work
[04:40] <Bashing-om> Do not do much TV'n myself, what brought snowden to your attention ?
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> was reading an article what motivated oliver stone to make this movie
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> its a crazy story
[04:45] <Bashing-om> Yeah ,, Oliver Stone has done some great works . Now my interest is piqued .
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/edward-snowden-oliver-stone-and-big-brother-a7389226.html
[04:58] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yeah - got my interest :) good reads .
[07:13] <Bashing-om> Good night Good Folks
[12:18] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[15:32] <EriC^^> !ping
[15:32] <ubot5`> pong!
[15:36] <OerHeks> 1-0
[15:40] <EriC^^> :D
[15:42] <nicomach1s> why doesn't pip update through apt?
[15:42] <nicomach1s> every time I try to install something with pip (every coupla months or so) I get "you're using version blahblah, but version blahblah.1 is availabe. please update with pip install --update pip"
[15:43] <nicomach1s> and then there's pip3 and all those fun variations of everything
[15:46] <daftykins> i don't even know why that thing has to exist
[15:46] <daftykins> yet another example of the mess of inconsistency that is Loonix
[15:46] <lordievader> Because pip is distro independent?
[15:48] <OerHeks> would be nice, pip hook to apt
[15:50] <nicomach1s> I think I'm with daftykins. Having to use pip at all is kinda pointless. would be much easier to just install python programs with apt
[15:53] <lordievader> Sure, but not everything is in apt.
[15:56] <nacc> which is why pip exists
[15:56] <nacc> and all the other per-language package managers
[15:56] <nacc> and then once pip exists, they stop trying to get their stuff into the distro
[15:56] <nacc> it becomes a bit of a loop
[16:00] <nicomach1s> a universal package manager should be... univeral.
[16:01] <nacc> well apt is, presuming, the packages exist int he archive
[16:01] <nacc> it can't know about stuff it ... doesn't know about :)
[16:01] <nacc> also, i hate the idea that one tool should solve every problem, it tends to lead to corner cases and bugs
[16:01] <nacc> and bloat :/
[16:02] <nacc> apt also can't, without kludges, install without proper permissions; i believe pip can
[16:02] <OerHeks> pip without sudo goes to the user environment, indeed
[16:06] <daftykins> just another hurdle to learning i'm afraid
[16:07] <nacc> also, the barrier to entry in debian/ubuntu is higher than in pip -- so cutting edge stuff tends to be in pip
[16:10] <daftykins> well i have one example i encountered it in, grabbing the get_iplayer script which is packaged, but out of date so as to be non-functional - i'd not encountered pip before so had no idea
[16:11] <daftykins> 'nough said ;)
[16:13] <nicomach1s> I just used it to install something called rtv. don't remember the last time I used it before that.
[16:14] <nacc> daftykins: package name?
[16:16] <daftykins> sorry, can't spare the time right now
[16:16] <daftykins> gotta make some calls :)
[16:16] <nacc> daftykins: np
[16:16] <nacc> daftykins: i'm happy to help (if i can) at least get that fixed/updated, in the future, just ping me
[16:49] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[16:51] <EriC^^> hi pauljw
[16:51] <pauljw> hey EriC^^ how's things?
[16:52] <EriC^^> pauljw: good thanks, you?
[16:52] <pauljw> EriC^^, doing well, thanks.  :)
[16:53] <EriC^^> :)
[18:57] <EriC^^> dnssoul: hey
[18:57] <EriC^^> Je peux aider
[18:57] <EriC^^> j'utilise Google Traduction
[18:58] <EriC^^> Je connais un peu de français, je suis libanais
[18:59] <OerHeks> une deux mille
[19:01] <EriC^^> zut!
[19:08] <nicomach1s> !fr
[19:08] <ubot5`> Nous sommes desoles mais ce canal est en anglais uniquement. Si vous avez besoin d'aide ou voulez discuter en français, veuillez taper /join #ubuntu-fr ou /join #ubuntu-qc. Merci.
[19:08] <nicomach1s> :P
[19:09] <daftykins> any of you guys ever deal with quirky LCDs on Lenovos? specifically got an X240 with a vertical band in the middle that's misbehaving
[19:09] <daftykins> upping a video right now
[19:25] <EriC^^> ugh
[19:25] <EriC^^> lenovo
[19:25] <EriC^^> the one i got had some backlight leaking
[19:25] <EriC^^> on the sides
[19:28] <daftykins> ah yeah
[19:28] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6mogup89751hjf/VID_20161214_190821.mp4?dl=0
[19:29] <EriC^^> man my isp is killing me
[19:30] <EriC^^> they made it $10 less and now the ping sucks ass, 340ms goes up to 2000-3000ms at times
[19:32] <daftykins> :(
[19:32] <daftykins> nasty jitter
[19:32] <daftykins> looks like it's a new panel time only - but that's fine because i can upgrade it to a 1080p for £45 :)
[19:33] <EriC^^> nice
[19:33] <nicomach1s> EriC^^: wow. how far is that signal traveling?!
[19:33] <daftykins> hehe, he uses mobile tech
[19:33] <EriC^^> yeah i do
[19:34] <EriC^^> it used to be pretty low ping though, like 120ms iirc or less
[19:34] <EriC^^> 64 bytes from <IP_ADDRESS>: icmp_seq=1 ttl=45 time=114 ms
[19:35] <EriC^^> then it'll go to 300ms out of nowhere for a while then jump to 3000 and stuff, i can't use the ps4 with it anymore
[19:35]  * EriC^^ tries to use the ps4 with it.. let's see
[19:36] <EriC^^> 64 bytes from <IP_ADDRESS>: icmp_seq=1 ttl=45 time=795 ms
[19:36] <EriC^^> could it be related?
[19:37] <EriC^^> it's back at 100ms now
[19:37] <daftykins> when i download on my xbox one, there can be some crazy jitter to my desktop machines
[19:37] <daftykins> i've often wondered if it's something the xbox one does that MS don't consider for those on VDSL lines
[19:38] <EriC^^> as soon as i hit the match making it jumps to 1400ms then 700ms
[19:40] <EriC^^> it seems definitely related
[19:40] <EriC^^> !ping
[19:40] <ubot5`> pong!
[19:40] <nicomach1s> daftykins: do you have the right ports open?
[19:40] <EriC^^> wow it just stalled, like 10000ms in a row
[19:40] <daftykins> nicomach1s: you don't have to open ports
[19:41] <nicomach1s> daftykins: it can help.
[19:41] <daftykins> no sir
[19:41] <EriC^^> must have been some coincidence, just tried and it didn't jump when i pressed the button, earlier it jumped right when i hit it
[19:43] <nicomach1s> daftykins: 53, 80, 88, 500, 3074, 3544, and 4500 have to be open. Opening 3075 and 3076 can improve matchmaking.
[19:44] <nicomach1s> UPnP will do it automatically but I prefer a little more precise control.
[19:44] <daftykins> yeah due to UPnP and NAT-PMP you don't need to open ports :)
[19:44] <daftykins> appreciate the thought, but it won't impact jitter during downloads from the store or updates etc
[19:45] <EriC^^> anybody have a tip for cleaning the usb charger cable connector?
[19:45] <nicomach1s> isopropyl and q-tips
[19:45] <daftykins> ^
[19:45] <EriC^^> it fell into a glass of pepsi, and sat there for a while, now it stopped working, so i'm using the ps4 cable to connect the phone to the desktop
[19:45] <EriC^^> i tried alcohol on it, it didn't work
[19:46] <nicomach1s> you can soak the end of it in iso if you think it got gunky up inside of it
[19:46] <EriC^^> it fell before in coffee and the alcohol plus after a few day it started working again, no dice this time
[19:46] <EriC^^> nicomach1s: i tried that too
[19:46] <nicomach1s> possible short? idk
[19:46] <EriC^^> if i wedge it with my hand upwards it used to work i think
[19:47] <nicomach1s> sounds like a short
[19:47] <EriC^^> yup it does
[19:47] <EriC^^> i have to push really hard though
[19:49] <EriC^^> i'll try moving the metal stuff inside with a needle
[19:49] <nicomach1s> unplug it first. lol
[19:50] <EriC^^> i was just thinking that
[19:50] <EriC^^> :D
[19:53] <EriC^^> there's some progress, now it needs just a little push to work
[20:00] <EriC^^> does anybody know a way to fix the mmi invalid code on android phones?
[20:01] <EriC^^> i keep getting it, i can't check how much internet traffic i have left, i tried adding a "," at the end
[20:01] <EriC^^> and the "search for network operator" many times and restarting, it worked once somehow then it stopped again
[20:05] <daftykins> could be worth nuking the data on the dialer app
[20:05] <daftykins> not seen that one but it rings a bell


[01:26] <jenda> juliux, a bonus :)
[01:33] <jenda> tsmithe: hhe
[01:33] <tsmithe> also. i have a task for you
[01:33] <tsmithe> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CinelerraReview
[01:33] <tsmithe> do it all now :)
[01:34] <jenda> no.
[01:34] <jenda> never ;)
[01:34] <tsmithe> bah
[01:34] <tsmithe> why not?
[01:34] <jenda> I don't have time, sorry
[01:34] <tsmithe> 5155 is a hell of a lot of files for one small team :S
[01:34] <jenda> the best way to avoid responsibility is to claim you have a lot of responsibility ;)
[01:34] <tsmithe> which you just failed to do
[01:35] <tsmithe> :)
[01:36] <tsmithe> jenda, happy birthday!
[01:36] <jenda> thanks, tsmithe ;)
[01:36] <tsmithe> :)
[01:36] <rjian> wow
[01:36] <tsmithe> hmm?
[01:36] <rjian> jenda: happy birthday
[01:36] <jenda> tsmithe: did I tell you? How did you know? ;)
[01:37] <tsmithe> i remembered
[01:37] <tsmithe> :)
[01:37] <jenda> I suppose I said it somewhere ;)
[01:37] <jenda> ok, cool :)
[01:37] <jenda> thx
[01:37] <tsmithe> :)
[01:37] <tsmithe> now you better remember mine
[01:43] <jenda> when's it?
[01:43] <jenda> (btw, I'm sorry, but I can barely remember my parents')
[01:48] <tsmithe> jenda, it was last week.
[01:48] <tsmithe> i was in the topic
[01:50] <jenda> oh
[01:50] <jenda> umm...
[01:50] <jenda> you expect me to remember it for a week?
[01:50] <tsmithe> yup
[01:50] <jenda> err... ear
[01:50] <jenda> year
[01:51] <tsmithe> you have logs ;)
[01:51] <jenda> omg
[01:51] <tsmithe> omgz?
[01:51] <jenda> tsmithe: if my exam season ends around your birthday...
[01:51] <jenda> do you expect me to be _sober_?
[01:51] <tsmithe> yes
[01:51] <tsmithe> no
[01:51] <tsmithe> both
[03:27] <poningru> hey guys we have to finish herd 4 by tomorrow eve
[03:27] <poningru> release notes that is
[03:28] <poningru> I will join you guys in like 8 hours
[03:28] <poningru> sleep time for now
[10:11] <cyphase> hey
[10:12] <cyphase> how do i join the gobby session for the herd4 release notes?
[11:10] <poningru> cyphase: hi
[11:10] <poningru> you there?
[11:10] <cyphase> yea
[11:11] <poningru> hold on
[11:11] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies?highlight=%28editing%29%7C%28weekly%29%7C%28newsletter%29
[11:11] <poningru> blargh
[11:11] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies
[11:11] <poningru> sorry
[11:12] <poningru> I havent started much yet
[11:12] <poningru> just doing research and stuff
[11:12] <cyphase> thanx
[06:37] <rpereira> Is there some one working on herd4 page?
[06:41] <poningru> rpereira: in gobby
[06:42] <poningru> I gotta go to work though
[06:42] <poningru> I have it all planed out just need to actually write it and screenshots
[06:53] <rpereira> poningru: Do you need help?
[07:18] <jenda> why can I never catch beuno? :-D
[07:21] <tsmithe> jenda, Seveas is around now ;)
[07:21] <jenda> beuno: pingity
[07:22] <jenda> :)
[07:22] <beuno> jenda!
[07:22] <beuno> super-pong
[07:22] <jenda> hehe
[07:22] <posingaspopular> you caught bueno!
[07:22] <jenda> beuno: I have an envelope here with a name on it...
[07:23] <jenda> posingaspopular: ;)
[07:23] <jenda> beuno: but, there's no address to put under the name.
[07:23] <beuno> jenda: email going your way
[07:23] <jenda> beuno: and there's also no confirmation you actually want it, nor any money to back that up ;)
[07:23] <jenda> coolio
[07:24] <beuno> jenda: reply the email with paypal information and ammount and you'll get it
[07:24] <jenda> cool
[07:24] <jenda> beuno: do you pay from paypal balance, or credit card?
[07:25] <beuno> jenda: from my paypal account
[07:25] <jenda> ok, cool.
[07:27] <beuno> jenda: how where things around here these days?
[07:28] <jenda> not sure, because things are hectic here ;)
[07:28] <beuno> I can see UWN is on the loose
[07:28] <jenda> beuno: I'm leaving for India in 3 days.
[07:28] <jenda> indeed...
[07:28] <beuno> and herd4 page needs urgent help
[07:28] <beuno> ah
[07:28] <beuno> that's right...
[07:28] <beuno> you're gone for a month, right?
[07:28] <jenda> yup
[07:29] <jenda> I was gonna meet up with meatballhat tonite and discuss our project.
[07:29] <jenda> But I didn't read up for it at all :/
[07:29] <jenda> damn, time goes fast when you need it to slow down :(
[07:30] <jenda> beuno: sent
[07:31] <jenda> I'll do my best to get the stickers out before I leave, but can't guarantee it.
[07:32] <beuno> jenda: no real hurry
[07:33] <beuno> jenda: can we get diy up anyway while your gone
[07:33] <beuno> ?
[07:33] <jenda> of course!
[07:34] <beuno> great
[07:35] <jenda> I'll bbl
[07:36] <beuno> ok ok, if my internet connection permits it, I'll be here all day
[07:36] <beuno> jenda, "You have sent a payment! An email has been sent to the recipient."
[07:45] <jenda> beuno: it's a credit card payment :/
[07:46] <beuno> oh, I paid from my paypal account
[07:47] <jenda> but it charged your CC
[07:47] <beuno> I didn't check to see if I had balance, I though it was the same
[07:47] <beuno> sorry  :(
[07:47] <jenda> np
[07:47] <beuno> how much did it charge you?
[07:47] <jenda> I'll just send it back
[07:47] <jenda> I can't accept it.
[07:47] <jenda> "The ability to accept credit or debit card funded payments is reserved for Premier and Business accounts. To accept this pending payment, please upgrade your account now."
[07:47] <beuno> oh...
[07:47] <beuno> hm
[07:47] <jenda> beuno: I have a premier account for this purpose ;)
[07:48] <beuno> maybe I can add balance to the account if it's easier for you
[07:49] <beuno> I can't...
[07:49] <jenda> It's not easier - but this way I'd have to ask you to send $31
[07:49] <jenda> "A message has been sent notifying the Sender that their payment has been denied."
[07:50] <beuno> well. $31 won't kill me so...
[07:51] <jenda> alrighty, the account is jenda.vancura at gmail.com
[07:52] <jenda> meatballhat: cloaked :)
[07:54] <beuno> jenda: $31 crisp new dollars gone your way
[07:55] <jenda> :(
[07:55] <jenda> One of them is bent.
[07:55] <jenda> ;)
[07:55] <jenda> Just kidding, thanks.
[07:56] <beuno> lol
[07:56] <beuno> you will be sending fotos from your trip, won't you?
[07:56] <jenda> hehe :)
[07:57] <jenda> I'm hoping to do something like a blog of it once I come back...
[07:58] <beuno> that would be a good idea
[07:58] <tsmithe> jenda, thanks!
[07:58] <jenda> hehe
[07:58] <jenda> np
[07:58] <tsmithe> i mean
[07:58] <beuno> what's a cloak?
[07:59] <jenda> * [tsmithe]  (n=tsmithe@ubuntu/member/tsmithe): Toby Smithe
[07:59] <tsmithe> jenda is staff
[07:59] <beuno> aaah
[07:59] <tsmithe> he'll explai.. oh he already did...
[07:59] <beuno> nice, you got approved too toby, congrats!
[08:01] <tsmithe> :D
[08:01] <beuno> oh, jenda, btw, maybe you can help
[08:01] <jenda> maybe...
[08:01] <beuno> any idea why my revision to the diy page was removed?
[08:01] <beuno> I saw it wasn't there anymore in launchpad
[08:01] <beuno> and the pull gave me a -1
[08:03] <jenda> hmm
[08:03] <jenda> no idea
[08:03] <jenda> meatballhat might know...
[08:03] <jenda> I didn't even know you guys used bzr :)
[08:03] <jenda> I'm glad you do, though.
[08:03] <beuno> well, dan doesn't know either
[08:04] <beuno> so I guess it's some kind of mixup
[08:05] <jenda> in that case, LarstiQ could help :)
[08:05] <jenda> He knows everything, so he should know this.
[08:16] <tsmithe> beuno, ask in #bzr
[08:16] <tsmithe> oh wait
[08:16] <tsmithe> you are :P
[08:21] <beuno> ;)
[10:13] <snedar> hi! is there a gobby channel I can join to see the herd4 document? just wondering whether there is anything new I'm not aware of...
[10:14] <juliux> snedar, use gobby
[10:14] <snedar> juliux, I've started it but I don't know which server to use
[10:14] <juliux> snedar, gobby is a extra software that is not a channel
[10:15] <snedar> okay, s/channel/server then :-)
[10:15] <juliux> snedar, host ist ubuntu.juliux.de port 6523
[10:16] <juliux> snedar, password  ufl@ftw
[10:17] <snedar> juliux, thanks! I'll see if I can contribute in the future
[10:17] <juliux> snedar, cool
[11:02] <bapoumba> Hello :)
[11:38] <tsmithe> hi
[11:40] <bapoumba> hey tsmithe


[16:26] <enyc> hrrm I guesss this is the closest there is to a pi channel
[16:30] <ogra> yeah
[19:03] <Mekaneck> enyc: there's #raspberrypi
[19:05] <enyc> Mekaneck: oooo ok
[19:50] <ogra> Mekaneck, well, not an ubuntu channel (we were trying to guide someone from freenodes fake #ubuntu over here)


[00:05] <head_victim> YAY the latest language pack has Rubbish Bin in all the right places
[01:46] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Approval2011 Lets see what we can do :)
[02:45]  * airtonix hands head_victim a cheerleader outfit
[02:45] <head_victim> I think I'll need to shave my legs for that suit
[02:52] <head_victim> On that note the stump grinding has finished so I'm off for some sleep. Cheerio.
[05:39] <sagaci> head_victim: awake?
[06:59] <somethinginteres> what's the difference between 'gksudo' and 'sudo'?
[07:00] <sagaci> gksudo is meant for graphical applications,
[07:00] <sagaci> iirc
[07:05] <iflema> !gksudo | somethinginteres
[07:09] <somethinginteres> iflema: thanks. I totally have just been using sudo though :P woops
[07:12]  * iflema any form of sudo.... says the one that forgets he is in a root terminal... starting things... constantly =)
[07:14] <somethinginteres> iflema: lol good times
[07:25] <benonsoftware> Hi head_victim
[07:57] <somethinginteres> so has anyone else experienced a less effective laptop battery on 11.04 as a lot of the posts are claiming? http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-11.04-natty-narwhal,2943-13.html
[07:57] <sagaci> i've always had less battery on ubuntu/linux
[08:03] <somethinginteres> sagaci: as have I but it seems like a lot of people are getting a significant decrease even compared to 10.10 or 10.04
[09:01] <sagaci> head_victim: ping
[10:17] <head_victim> Here I am
[10:20]  * mrshr3d is taking Natty for a spin on recently acquired old testing PC.
[10:21] <head_victim> I only recently got it in a VM. It will be interesting to see how it goes this cycle with Unity.
[10:22] <mrshr3d> Almost finished installing after having quick Live CD explore.  Yeah, might take a little while to get used to.
[11:34] <airtonix> until i have a tablet capable of running ubuntu 11.04 i'll stick with good ol gnome
[11:43] <head_victim> How are the hardware requirements for gnome 3? I haven't actually looked into them.
[13:44] <sagaci> head_victim, ping
[13:48] <somethinginteres> anyone know anything about getting a "stacktrace" I'm trying to debug banshee but not getting any responses in the usual IRC channels. I've installed the banshee-dbg package as asked but I am not sure how to use that to generate a more useful debug log.


[09:35] <bcsaller> niemeyer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ensemble/+bug/771348
[09:35] <_mup_> Bug #771348: status barfs when checking newly deployed service units (no state) <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/771348 >
[09:37] <niemeyer> bcsaller: Cheers
[09:40] <jimbaker> hazmat, dublin is fun + productive
[09:40] <kim0> A new screencast springs into existence → http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntucloud#p/a/u/0/AMHcy63wRL0
[09:40] <kim0> "Ensemble deploy and scale cloud apps with ease"
[09:41] <jimbaker> kim0, sounds great! need to get my headphones out
[09:41] <kim0> if you spot a horrible mistake .. let me know .. can still fix it
[11:50] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-status r263 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:50] <_mup_> Tests to verify that open-ports is not set in status unless service is exposed
[11:51] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-status r264 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:51] <_mup_> Do not set open-ports unless service is exposed
[12:23] <_mup_> Bug #802931 was filed: Modify provisioning agent so that the machine opens/closes ports <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/802931 >
[12:57] <kim0> Does anyone agree "ensemble shutdown" should have a -y option ?
[13:35] <ivoks> can ensemble formula be interactive?
[13:36] <ivoks> meaning, can it ask for some user input before for information required when packages are installed
[14:10] <kim0> ivoks: afaik not really .. but we'll get that soon with config-set (passing variables to formulas)
[14:11] <kim0> devs correct me if I'm wrong
[14:11] <ivoks> ok, that's good enough
[14:12] <ivoks> how does expose/unexpose work?
[14:13] <ivoks> even if i don't expose, all the services from my formula are available from outside
[14:13] <kim0> ivoks: I believe expose is for opening up ports using ec2 security groups (current provider)
[14:13] <kim0> but today .. I believe all ports are open by default
[14:13] <ivoks> ok
[14:14] <ivoks> i'm working on mail-stack formula
[14:14] <ivoks> i got it working fine, with exception of not being able to define relayhost :)
[14:15] <kim0> Ben is working hard to add passing params
[14:15] <kim0> should hopefully land soon
[14:15] <ivoks> what i'd like to do more is to separate postfix to one instance and dovecot to the other
[14:16] <kim0> ivoks: btw https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/docs/ has more info on exposing :)
[14:16] <ivoks> yeah, i know
[14:16] <ivoks> :)
[14:20] <hazmat> ivoks, atm things are open, but in future, when the ports stuff land it will be closed to public by default but open to internal traffic (till we adjust the ports work to take into account relations)
[14:21] <ivoks> ok
[14:21] <hazmat> ivoks, re how ports work.. the formula hooks can designate which hooks they want to open and close via an ensemble cli api (open-port, close-port).. the ensemble user/admin will need to expose the service for these hook defined settings to take effect
[14:22] <ivoks> ok
[14:24] <hazmat> underneath the hood their using ec2 security groups as kim0 pointed out
[14:24] <hazmat> kim0, are you in dublin this week?
[14:25] <kim0> Yes
[14:25] <kim0> you are not right
[14:25] <hazmat> kim0, nope.. just wondering where the dev team is hanging out at
[14:26] <hazmat> kim0, i did a mongodb conference yesterday.. and did a quick demo of the mongodb formula i've been working on
[14:26] <hazmat> but it also needs config-set for the sharding configuration
[14:26] <kim0> woohoo
[14:26] <kim0> hazmat: share that formula man :)
[14:27]  * hazmat looks up the how to share with principia docs
[14:27] <hazmat> niemeyer, hallo!
[14:29] <ivoks> destroy-service doesn't really do anything yet?
[14:29] <hazmat> ivoks, it does.. it removes relations, destroys units, it should wipe the service from the environment
[14:29] <ivoks> hm
[14:29] <ivoks> everything is still running on my instance :)
[14:30] <hazmat> hmm..
[14:30] <hazmat> ivoks, have you implemented the stop hook?
[14:30] <ivoks> there are no relations, but dovecot, postfix and amavis are still running
[14:31] <ivoks> yes; it might be wrong
[14:31] <ivoks> service dovecot stop
[14:31] <ivoks> same for postfix and amavis
[14:31]  * hazmat checks the implementation
[14:32] <hazmat> SpamapS, how's the reception of lxc-provider at the rally?
[14:39] <hazmat> ivoks, so it doesn't appear that destroying a service will actually inform the unit it should suicide, it just tells the machine agent to kill the unit agent
[14:39] <hazmat> ivoks, so in the destroy-service case with the service processes still running, do you see any unit agent processes in the process listing?
[14:40] <hazmat> so the relation-broken hooks are invoked, but not afaics the stop hook
[14:40] <ivoks> i see unit agent
[14:40] <ivoks> /usr/bin/python -m ensemble.agents.unit -n --pidfile /var/lib/ensem....
[14:41] <hazmat> hmm
[14:41] <ivoks> it's not listed in ensemble status
[14:42] <ivoks> ah, don't worry about it
[14:42] <ivoks> i have other things to solve first
[14:42] <niemeyer> hazmat: Hey man!
[14:42] <niemeyer> hazmat: Missing you here
[14:42] <hazmat> ivoks, i'll keep digging into it
[14:42] <ivoks> like 'restart service after 'install''
[14:42] <hazmat> niemeyer, how's it going so far
[14:42] <niemeyer> hazmat: Fantastic
[14:42] <hazmat> niemeyer, awesome.. any highlights so far? or just a good productive vibe going around?
[14:42] <ivoks> niemeyer: i bet it's raining all the time :)
[14:43] <niemeyer> ivoks: :-)
[14:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: Quite a few.. still have to digest
[14:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: What are you working on right now?
[14:43] <hazmat> i think its rained every day at wimbledon but like two.. out of 10
[14:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: and how much time would it take for you to get rid of our pre-baked images?
[14:43] <hazmat> niemeyer, atm digging into destroy-service
[14:43] <hazmat> niemeyer, maybe 2.5 hrs
[14:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: Awesome!
[14:43] <niemeyer> hazmat: Can you push that?
[14:44] <hazmat> niemeyer, sounds good, i'll put an issue to have a look at destroy-service later
[14:44] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yeah, destroy-service actually looks important, but I wonder if it should be postponed and solve LXC first
[14:45] <niemeyer> hazmat: destroy-service will likely have a different story in that light
[14:45] <bcsaller> hazmat: also there is some hinting at more review on my branch which would be helpful
[14:47] <hazmat> niemeyer, not sure that its significantly different, in light of lxc.. perhaps.. the machine agent does a destroy on the unit deployment, and the relations are broken first.. i guess it depends on how we structure the agents for the container, if a machine agent lives in each container in the provider case, or if we just have a singleton machine agent on the physical machine creating containers (which would translate well to pushing the work to ec2)
[14:47] <hazmat> bcsaller, indeed i do need to follow up on that
[14:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: Yeah, maybe it's not that different indeed
[14:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: What about the security stuff?
[14:48] <niemeyer> hazmat: Would be good to get some action happening on that front sooner rather than later
[14:49] <_mup_> Bug #802995 was filed: Destroy service should invoke unit's stop hook, verify/investigate this is true <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/802995 >
[14:50] <hazmat> niemeyer, i've got some comments on the review, i'll try to kick that back out today..  so reviews and image work on my plate for today
[14:50] <niemeyer> hazmat: Cool.. I'm just concerned we're not getting any action for a while
[14:51] <niemeyer> hazmat: We can continue evolving the spec and the overall design, but would be good to define what are the first few steps and get these going
[14:52] <ivoks> hazmat: note that this was reproduced on my custom formula (maybe the formula is broken)
[14:53] <hazmat> niemeyer, the mongodb conference yesterday was fun.. their roadmap has some cool features.. the aggregation stuff (map/reduce replacement) is really nice
[14:54] <niemeyer> hazmat: It's awesome indeed.. really looking forward to it
[14:58] <hazmat> off to dog-walk, back in a few
[14:58] <niemeyer> hazmat: Have fun
[16:55] <SpamapS> hazmat: re the lxc provider, its a bit rough getting going, but m_3 was able to get it going
[16:55] <hazmat>  SpamapS nice, you doubled the user population ;-)
[16:55] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines r264 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:55] <_mup_> Initial commit
[16:56] <SpamapS> hazmat: I really want to get all of the agents running under upstart, that would be cool.
[16:58] <hazmat> SpamapS, i had a look after we discussed last month, it looked pretty straightforward
[16:58] <hazmat> i'll see if i can get in this week if no else gets to it
[17:03] <_mup_> Bug #803042 was filed: The "bootstrap node" needs high availability <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/803042 >
[17:09] <ivoks> i could help with that :)
[17:11] <niemeyer> Yos
[17:11] <niemeyer> ivoks: Why aren't you here? :)
[17:11] <ivoks> don't know :)
[17:24] <_mup_> ensemble/sans-ami r264 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:24] <_mup_> use standard ubuntu amis
[17:24] <_mup_> ensemble/sans-ami r265 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:24] <_mup_> add missing natty release image data for tests
[17:56] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines r265 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:56] <_mup_> Now loops
[18:00] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines r266 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:00] <_mup_> Removed debugging sleeps from new test
[19:01] <_mup_> ensemble/sans-ami r266 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:01] <_mup_> allow image specifications to select an ami, these specs are not passed to user data.
[20:07] <_mup_> ensemble/sans-ami r267 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:07] <_mup_> use the ensemble ppa for software installation by default, but also support branch installations.
[20:48] <_mup_> ensemble/sans-ami r268 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:48] <_mup_> tweak install commands to include state and log dir creation
[21:13] <_mup_> ensemble/sans-ami r269 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:13] <_mup_> correct name for txzookeeper, and normalize checkout dirname
[22:39]  * niemeyer breaths and heads to some reviewing..
[22:40] <niemeyer> A bit sleepy.. may not last long. :)


[18:49] <Mr_Doge> hello everyone , i was told ask this question here
[18:49] <Mr_Doge> i've created an Ubuntu group for telegram users , is it allowed to share the link in #ubuntu ?
[18:50] <Mr_Doge> i am also planning to connect irc and group with bridge , please tell me if it is not a violation of any rule
[19:42] <valorie> Mr_Doge: you'll probably want to take at least the second question there to the irc council
[19:43] <valorie> we have telegram groups connected to kubuntu irc chans and it works OK


[05:32] <fabbione> morning
[05:44] <lamont> jbailey: any word on: /usr/include/linux/socket.h:10: error: redefinition of 'struct sockaddr'
[05:50] <jbailey> Arch and/or package, please?
[05:50] <jbailey> My brain's been a bit full lately.
[07:55] <elmo> jbailey/fabbione: the --as-needed stuff is a mess
[07:55] <jbailey> elmo: From the bit that I posted for him?
[07:55] <jbailey> Or do you mean in the archive?
[07:55] <elmo> it has a touch-all testsuite update, which depends on an earlier touch-all testsuite update which isn't easily backportable
[07:56] <jbailey> Right, the testsuite will suck incredibly.
[07:56] <jbailey> I think the best bet for Debian is a CVS update, the best for Ubuntu (hppa, sparc) is to ignore the testsuite and pray.
[07:56] <elmo> well, I'm leaving ubuntu up to you guys
[07:57] <elmo> a CVS update for Debian isn't a horrible idea actually
[07:57] <elmo> let's ask drow
[07:58] <jbailey> elmo: Where are you asking?
[07:59] <elmo> privmsg
[07:59] <elmo> old cabal habits die hard
[08:00] <jbailey> *lol*
[08:05] <fabbione> elmo/jb: i just finished to build binutils...
[08:06] <fabbione> but i am too tired right now to do sensible tests
[08:06] <fabbione> will do it tomorrow morning
[08:11] <jbailey> fabbione: Can you humour me and do hello world at least?
[08:11] <fabbione> jbailey: sure...
[08:14] <fabbione> what was the bug number for the binutils?
[08:14] <elmo> #320697:
[08:14] <fabbione> no .. in ubuntu
[08:14] <jbailey> 12822
[08:15] <fabbione> there..
[08:15] <fabbione> thanks
[08:17] <fabbione> jbailey: you know what?
[08:18] <fabbione>  grep PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE *
[08:18] <fabbione> Binary file libGL.so.1.2 matches
[08:18] <fabbione> sparcbuildd@vultus5:~$ gcc hello.o -Wl,--as-needed /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2
[08:18] <fabbione> sparcbuildd@vultus5:~$ ./a.out
[08:18] <fabbione> hello world!
[08:19] <jbailey> Did that used to fail?
[08:19] <fabbione> sparcbuildd@vultus5:~$ gcc hello.o -Wl,--as-needed /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2
[08:19] <fabbione> sparcbuildd@vultus5:~$ ./a.out
[08:19] <fabbione> hello world!
[08:19] <fabbione> sparcbuildd@vultus5:~$ ldd a.out
[08:19] <fabbione>         libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x70030000)
[08:19] <fabbione>         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x70000000)
[08:19] <fabbione> jbailey: yeps :)
[08:19] <fabbione> it works..
[08:19] <jbailey> And it's Modra that rocks.  Glad we don't have to invalidate the archive while we're at it, though.
[08:19] <fabbione> and hello world comes out :)
[08:19] <jbailey> Have a good sleep, Fabio. =)
[08:19] <fabbione> yeah i am in the need of one
[08:19] <fabbione> i think i am getting a big flu
[08:19] <jbailey> fabbione: I'll confirm what to do with doko and try to get you a binutils update.
[08:19] <jbailey> doko: ^^^
[08:20] <fabbione> jbailey: that would be cool
[08:20] <fabbione> at least to get main done for breezy will rock
[08:20] <jbailey> lamont-away: ping?
[08:20] <fabbione> i am running breezy atm on my buildd.. a suicide :)
[08:21] <jbailey> It's a good workout.
[08:21] <lamont> jbailey:
[08:21] <jbailey> Tests glibc and such nicely.
[08:21] <jbailey> lamont: Hey.  Will you have time to test this binutils to see if it's enough love for HPPA as well?
[08:22] <lamont> it was building when I left the house, checking on its status now
[08:22] <fabbione> jbailey: btw.. i did also install an initramfs kernel on sparc...
[08:22] <lamont> I wish expect worked correctly
[08:22] <jbailey> Ah lovely. =)
[08:22] <fabbione> i will let you know tomorrow if it boots
[08:22] <jbailey> fabbione: Boots?
[08:23] <lamont> jbailey: once this build finishes, I'll upgrade said chroot and try building openexr, since that was the simplest failure case before
[08:23] <doko> jbailey: applying that for sparc and hppa conditionally? saves us the testsuite results for the other archs ...
[08:23] <fabbione> jbailey: i don't think we did ever test initramfs on sparc...
[08:23] <fabbione> jbailey: so this will be a test to do :)
[08:23] <jbailey> doko: Right.
[08:30] <lamont> jbailey: on the binutils upload, care to make it say build-depends: ... expect-tcl8.3 [hppa] , expect (>= 5.32.2-1) [!hppa]  ...
[08:30] <jbailey> tcl8.4 sucking wind for you?
[08:31] <jbailey> Actually, if this fixes your problem, we'll be disabling the testsuite for hppa anyway, so it doesn't much matter.
[08:31] <lamont> jbailey: rather, the kernel's failure to deliver SIGCLD under some particular and unknown conditions, is.
[08:31] <lamont> ah, true
[08:31] <jbailey> And tcl8.3 solves this?
[08:34] <lamont> jbailey: uh, yes.
[08:34] <lamont> and no, I don't know why.
[08:34] <lamont> if I did. we could fix the kernel bug.
[08:35] <lamont> which is affectionately (and incorrectly) known as "the expect bug"
[08:35] <lamont> see the gcc-4.0 build-deps... doko was the one who figured out the hack (and created expect-tcl8.3)
[08:37] <jbailey> We should have a race, who gets working Signals first, the Hurd or parisc-linux? =)
[09:56] <lamont> jbailey: test build running now
[09:56] <jbailey> lamont: Sorry, I don't bump it until I'm ready to upload.  This one unconditionally applies it everywhere.
[09:57] <lamont> right
[09:57] <jbailey> It's really one of those "please only add me by hand in a chroot and you should have to think reasonably hard about doing this"
[09:57] <lamont> otoh, making it -3ubuntu1.0 would be a clue...
[09:57] <lamont> heh
[10:12] <lamont> jbailey: SCORE!!!!
[10:12] <lamont> checking for strerror... yes
[10:12] <lamont> checking for compress in -lz... yes
[10:12] <lamont> checking for ios_base support in C++ standard library... yes
[10:20] <jbailey> lamont: Izgood?
[10:24] <lamont> sim
[10:25] <jbailey> doko: Awake?
[10:25] <jbailey> doko: It seems sparc and hppa both appreciate this binutils better than a swift kick in the teeth.
[10:26] <jbailey> doko: So I'd like your final blessing to upload with this patch only applying for hppa and sparc, and with the testsuite disabled on those archs.
[10:26] <doko> jbailey: sounds fine.
[10:26] <doko> maybe after the release we should change the name from binutils-static to ld-static
[10:27] <jbailey> I named it that in case it needed to grow more than just ld.
[10:27] <doko> then let's watch how it grows in breezy+1 :-)
[10:44] <lamont> so then.  jbailey: yes, I'm happy with the new binutils
[10:46] <lamont> jbailey: how soon should I expect an upload?
[10:47] <jbailey> I'm trying to decide if I want to pick a quote for the top of the changelog file...
[10:57] <jbailey> Feh, my mind is blanking on how to do ifneq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),sparc) or ifneq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),hppa)
[10:57] <jbailey> Do I have to nest them?
[11:02] <jbailey> Solved a different way.
[11:08] <jbailey> elmo: Around?
[11:26] <lamont> ifeq ($(arch),$(findstring $(arch),hppa sparc))
[11:26] <jbailey> lamont: What's the best way to bootstrap a breezy chroot these days for hppa from a running sid system?
[11:26] <lamont> I _think_ you can just debootstrap it...  but no.
[11:26] <lamont> libgcc2 isn't in main, so life sucks
[11:26] <jbailey> Well, the ubuntu debootstrap scripts aren't in Debian, are they?
[11:26] <lamont> debootstrap hoary from people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/ubuntu-hppa/tree and then dist-upgrade
[11:26] <jbailey> libgcc2? =(
[11:27] <jbailey> You have an abi event with libgcc?
[11:27] <jbailey> s/have/had/
[11:27] <lamont> well, doko did.
[11:27] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/hoary.buildd
[11:28] <lamont> debootstrap with that script
[11:30] <jbailey> When this is done, can I just dist-upgrade off of archive.ubuntu.com?
[11:30] <lamont> no.  ports.ubuntu.com
[11:30] <lamont> deb ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports breezy main restricted ....
[11:30] <lamont> deb-src archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted ....
[11:31] <lamont> hppa-hacks/expect-tcl8.3-dev_5.43.0-2_hppa.deb
[11:31] <lamont> hppa-hacks/expect-tcl8.3_5.43.0-2_hppa.deb
[11:31] <lamont> hppa-hacks/expectk-tk8.3_5.43.0-2_hppa.deb
[11:31] <lamont> hppa-hacks/gcc-3.4-hppa64_3.4.4-5ubuntu1_hppa.deb
[11:31] <lamont> hppa-hacks/libgcc2_4.0.1-4ubuntu4_hppa.deb
[11:31] <lamont> hppa-hacks/palo_1.9_hppa.deb
[11:31] <lamont> that's what I have in a local repository which sources.list.main includes
[11:31] <jbailey> Err..
[11:32] <lamont> those are copies/symlinks to the universe packages
[11:32] <jbailey> Okay, so if I add universe, will I be fine?
[11:32] <lamont> right
[11:32] <jbailey> Oh good. =)
[11:32] <jbailey> Aside from the kernel not booting, is ia64 releasing with Breezy?
[11:32] <lamont> note that if you have universe debs in sources.list, and you build a main package, you may get incorrectly-satisfied build-depends...
[11:32] <lamont> ia64 is tracking breezy nicely
[11:33] <jbailey> Right.  At this point I just want to make sure that the binutils package actually applies the patch on hppa correctly.
[11:33] <lamont> except for that little kernel issue
[11:33] <jbailey> The testsuite disabling I've tested.
[11:33] <lamont> ok
[11:33] <jbailey> Hmm.  debootstrap seems stuck on I: Checking component main on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/ubuntu-hppa/tree...
[11:34] <lamont> it should be happy...
[11:34] <lamont> you told it hoary, yes
[11:34] <lamont> ?
[11:35] <jbailey> debootstrap --variant=buildd hoary hoary http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/ubuntu-hppa/tree
[11:35] <jbailey> And I updated the hoary.buildd from the location you have.
[11:35] <jbailey> s/have/game/
[11:35] <jbailey> GAVE
[11:35] <jbailey> DAMMIT
[11:35] <jbailey> ROAR
[11:35] <jbailey> don't mind me.
[11:36] <lamont> lol
[11:41] <jbailey> Oh, it's done something useful.
[11:41] <jbailey> How nice of it.
[11:49] <elmo> jbailey: ?
[11:49] <jbailey> You don't have lvm2 or klibc-utils on hppa yet? =(
[11:49] <jbailey> hmm
[11:50] <jbailey> elmo: I've added some stuff to make it possible to specify per-arch which ones should disable the testsuite, and also to make it honour DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[11:50] <jbailey> elmo: I'd like you to consider these for Debian as well.  Will you take a look at the Ubuntu packae that I upload, or do you need a patch in the BTS?
[11:50] <elmo> jbailey: azeem made a patch for the latter already which is in the BTS
[11:51] <elmo> I'm sort of disinclined to make it easy to disable the test suite per-arch, but I'll see what it looks like
[11:51] <elmo> vorlon + drow approved binutils cvs for sid, btw
[11:51] <jbailey> Well, I wrapped the testsuite stuff in ifeq ($(CHECK),), and at the top I set CHECK based on DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
[11:52] <jbailey> the sideeffect is that you can trivial define CHECK whenever you'd like for other reasons.
[11:53] <jbailey> cool on the cvs binutils for sid.
[11:53] <jbailey> It'll be nice to get this cleaned up everywhere.
[12:00] <jbailey> lamont, elmo: While you're both hereish, any luck on hppa build logs?


[01:37] <lifeless> tla killed
[01:59] !alindeman:*! Hi all! As you may know, Space Ship One is go for its flight tomorrow morning.  If you're interested, #spaceshipone is gearing up to monitor and celebrate the event.
[06:00] <mdz> that must make your work more difficult, now that tla is dead
[08:42] <lifeless> mdz: not really, its quite phoenix like
[08:46] <jblack_> autofs is cool.
[09:31] <carlos> lifeless, jblack_: ping
[09:31] <carlos> morning
[10:22] <spiv> stub: You around?
[10:22] <stub> Yup
[10:23] <spiv> For how much longer? :)
[10:24] <stub> Probably another 7 hours
[10:25] <spiv> Heh, ok :)
[10:40] <carlos> elmo_: do you know if is there any problem with the chinstrap mail?
[10:41] <daf> carlos: we had some problems with PQM yesterday
[10:41] <carlos> elmo_: pqm is not processing my merge request since yesterday
[10:41] <daf> if in doubt, wait
[10:42] <elmo_> it's not chinstrap mail
[10:42] <elmo_> it's pqm/tla
[10:47] <carlos> elmo_: I don't know where is the problem and lifeless/jblack_ are not available to ask about pqm so I ask you as the mailadmin :-P
[10:48] <elmo_> carlos: err, and I answered?
[10:49] <limi> will be offline for a bit, changing networks
[10:49] <carlos> elmo_: yes, don't worry
[10:50] <carlos> elmo_: change ask by asked, sorry
[10:51] <SteveA> carlos: the n~ characters are just omitted by my xchat
[10:52] <SteveA> I don't know about mark's
[10:52] <SteveA> so I wonder if mark got a good translation
[10:52] <carlos> hmm
[10:52] <carlos> I will send it by mail then
[10:53] <SteveA> mark has it okay
[10:54] <carlos> ok
[10:57] <carlos> breakfast time, see you later
[11:03] <stub> carlos: should Schema.name be lowercase only while I'm at it?
[11:04] <carlos> stub: sorry, I don't understand the question
[11:05] <stub> I'm putting the unique constraint on schema.name. I was wondering if I should also enforce that schema.name is also lowercase (I do this for some other .name columns where we want to use them in urls)
[11:05] <carlos> ooh, hmm, It could be a problem
[11:06] <carlos> we have labels with names like es_ES
[11:06] <carlos> or pt_BR
[11:06] <limi> hm, that didn't work all that well
[11:06] <limi> seems like I have to migrate to the office
[11:08] <stub> carlos: No problem - I won't put any other constraints in then.
[11:09] <carlos> stub: ok, thanks
[11:09] <daf> carlos: aren't those label names not schema namet, though?
[11:09] <carlos> daf: no
[11:09] <carlos> hmm
[11:09] <carlos> wait
[11:09] <carlos> too many negations
[11:09] <carlos> those label names are not schema names
[11:09] <daf> let me rephrase :)
[11:09] <daf> right
[11:10] <carlos> daf: so?
[11:10] <daf> it seems to me that stub was talking about schemas and you were talking about labels
[11:10] <carlos> hmm
[11:10] <carlos> right
[11:10] <carlos> O:-)
[11:10] <daf> so, schema names can be lowercase, but label names can't?
[11:10] <carlos> right
[11:11] <carlos> stub: forget what I told you, and add the lower case constraint for Schema.name, please
[11:11] <stub> carlos: Ok. :-)
[11:23] <carlos> after getting some food and sugar, my brain should work better :-P
[11:27] <carlos> spiv: the commit rocketfuel just got from you, is from today?
[11:30] <spiv> Hmm, no, it's from yesterday.
[11:30] <spiv> limi: rocketfuel now has that patch I sent you yesterday properly merged in.
[11:30] <limi> great
[11:34] <carlos> so I should wait
[11:34] <carlos> before any new commit...
[11:34] <carlos> spiv: thanks for the information
[11:35] <spiv> Presumably it's working through the backlog :)
[12:06] <carlos> finally!! my merge was done
[12:07] <carlos> spiv: so the problem was "only" an empty request?
[12:09] <spiv> carlos: Yeah, blame SteveA.
[12:09] <spiv> ;)
[12:10] <carlos> :-P
[12:11] <carlos> hmm
[12:11] <carlos> I did not changed some files that the commit log says I did
[12:11] <carlos> lib/canonical/lp/images/arrowBottom.gif
[12:11] <carlos>      lib/canonical/lp/images/arrowDown.gif
[12:11] <carlos>      lib/canonical/lp/images/arrowRight.gif
[12:11] <carlos>      lib/canonical/lp/images/info.gif
[12:11] <carlos>      lib/canonical/lp/images/languages.gif
[12:14] <spiv> Hmm, that's a bit of a mystery.
[12:17] <daf> carlos: looks like some changes I made
[12:17] <spiv> None of the changesets it claims to have merged touched those files.
[12:17] <spiv> (at least, not according to my browsing of archzoom)
[12:17] <daf> https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/archzoom/daf@canonical.com--2004/launchpad--devel--0--patch-182?log
[12:18] <spiv> Weird.
[12:18] <carlos> daf: but I'm talking about my merge, why it list those files in my merge request?
[12:18] <daf> carlos: no idea
[12:18] <daf> which merge?
[12:18] <spiv> This sounds like a question for the arch guys.
[12:18] <daf> hmmm
[12:18] <daf> perhaps you changed the permissions back
[12:19] <daf> ls -l lib/canonical/lp/images/arrowBottom.gif
[12:19] <daf> ?
[12:19] <daf> well, not deliberately, obviously
[12:19] <spiv> daf: Not according to his changesets...
[12:19] <daf> the permissions stuff in Arch does seem rather flakey
[12:19] <carlos> -rw-r--r--    1 carlos   carlos        102 2004-08-16 12:23 lib/canonical/lp/images/arrowBottom.gif
[12:19] <daf> weird!
[12:20] <daf> that's the correct permission
[12:21] <carlos> daf: so I did not broke anything
[12:21] <carlos> ok, more mistery arround arch :-P
[12:22] <spiv> I'll mail the arch guys.
[12:22] <daf> carlos: mistery -- is that like a combination of "mystery" and "misery"? :)
[12:23] <carlos> daf: a kind of :-P
[12:50] <carlos> daf: could we move the #1973 to post beta after lalo's changes?
[12:53] <daf> huh?
[12:53] <daf> is it fixed yet?
[12:54] <carlos> daf: with indexes and lalo changes the import speed has been improved a lot, so I think it's not a priority now
[12:55] <carlos> we still should profile the process to improve it more, but it's not as important as other bugs we have
[12:55] <carlos> of course, under my point of view
[12:56] <daf> let's leave it as it is for now
[12:57] <carlos> ok
[01:08] <limi> so, everything is OK wrt PQM and friends now?
[01:09] <daf> yeah, except for the null-merge-wedged-pqm bug
[01:09] <daf> * wedges
[01:11] <spiv> limi: Largely; see my mail to the launchpad list.
[01:12] <limi> ok
[01:22] <dilys> New bug 2052 for Launchpad/Launchpad: Make ShipIt use andrew's XML-RPC auth service
[01:22] <dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2052
[01:24] <dilys> New bug 2053 for Launchpad/Launchpad: Code security review of shipit
[01:24] <dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2053
[01:28] <daf> lulu: isn't it lunctime yet? :)
[01:31] <elmo_> daf: -ECHAN, #launchpad
[01:31] <elmo_> blah #lunchpad
[01:34] <lulu> daf: almost!
[01:39] <spiv> stub: ping?
[01:39] <stub> spiv: pong
[01:39] <spiv> Get my mail?
[01:40] <spiv> (and checking you haven't gone to sleep ;)
[01:40] <stub> Yup - Sourceforge table
[01:42] <spiv> It's slightly misnamed, I guess, we'll put freshmeat info in there as well.
[01:42] <stub> Sounds sane, and I have no problem with it. The database is there to fulfill the developers' needs ;)
[01:42] <spiv> Excellent :)
[01:44] <stub> What tool is writing to it, and what tool will migrate the data from it to Product? (For documentation)
[01:46] <stub> spiv: And should I add it now, or wait until you have confirmed all the columns you need are actually there?
[01:46] <spiv> For the former, we have code from someone Mark contracted to do gather the data, although I'm not sure exactly where we'll take its results and put it in the table.
[01:46] <spiv> For the latter, it'll be part of the launchpad web UI.
[01:47] <spiv> I think add it now.
[01:48] <stub> Its already being used for more than just sourceforge data (you mentioned freshmeat) - anyone else there have any better ideas?
[01:48] <spiv> ProjectDetailsScrapedFromExternalSources ;)
[01:49] <stub> ScrapedProject perhaps (which is the shortened version of yours...)
[01:49] <spiv> That works for me.
[01:50] <stub> Can you quickly ask there?
[01:50] <spiv> Mark's in a rush atm.
[01:51] <stub> homepageurl should be unique? (I'm thinking how the scraper will work)
[01:52] <stub> Or do we need some sort of external id so the scraper knows if it already has that one?
[01:53] <lulu> daf:lunch :o)
[01:53] <stub> lulu: Wheres mine dammit?
[01:53] <spiv> And about to disappear for a meeting...
[01:54] <lulu> stub: come on over!
[02:09] <carlos> daf: following your instructions, It says that my archive is missing the patch-214
[02:09] <carlos> hmm
[02:09] <carlos> ok, forget it
[02:10] <carlos> I thought you were talking about missing patchs from rocketfuel into my archive
[02:10] <carlos> now, that mail makes more sense :-P
[02:20] <limi> lulu: mark spoke about three deadlines, the 7th, the 13th and the 20th October (I believe) - do you know what these are? there was a lot of noise, so I couldn't make it all out.
[02:21] <lulu> limi: hiya
[02:21] <lulu> limi: websites - we need to have them sorted by the 7th
[02:21] <lulu> 13th - gold release of Warty and Malone Alpha
[02:23] <lulu> 20th - official release - after any showstopping bugs in Warty are dealt with (if any) and print of CDs
[02:23] <limi> great, thanks
[02:23] <lulu> 13th = named, the "candidate release"
[02:24] <lulu> limi:no worries.
[02:30] <lulu> limi: have you worked with Luirker before?
[02:30] <lulu> lurker...
[02:31] <limi> that's the nick of one of my employees ;)
[02:31] <limi> I've seen it, yes
[02:31] <limi> not worked extensively with it
[02:32] <lulu> limi: ok - I'm about to send you an email on it ...
[02:32] <limi> ok
[02:59] <lulu> limi:sent
[04:14] <dilys> New bug 2054 for Launchpad/Rosetta: URL pointing to inexistent POFile objects should not fail
[04:14] <dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2054
[04:22] <SteveA> nonexitent, not inexistent :-)
[04:35] <carlos> lalalala
[04:35] <carlos> :-P
[04:36] <carlos> fixed
[04:40] <SteveA> in these situations, Lithuanian friends of mine say "Me fail english? unpossible!"
[04:41] <carlos> X-)
[05:42] <stub> SteveA: (or anyone). How do I get the Person.id of the currently authenticated connection? I'm guessing I need to adapt request to something, but I don't know what something is.
[05:43] <carlos> stub: person = IPerson(request.principal, None)
[05:43] <carlos> if person is not None:
[05:43] <carlos> then you have a valid person, if it's None is an anonymous request
[05:43] <carlos> stub: look at rosetta/browser.py we have code about it there
[05:45] <stub> ta.
[06:30] <carlos> hmm
[06:30] <carlos> I'm having problems with cStringIO
[06:30] <carlos> TypeError: argument 1 must be file, not cStringIO.StringO
[06:32] <carlos> I thought a cStringIO was a kind of file object
[06:35] <daf> where is that exception being raised?
[06:36] <carlos> In new code
[06:36] <spiv> Is this when trying to construct a cStringIO?
[06:37] <carlos>  data = bz2.decompress(r1.read())
[06:37] <carlos>     parser = apt_pkg.ParseTagFile(StringIO(data))
[06:37] <spiv> Ah, hmm.
[06:37] <spiv> I guess you'll need to give it a real file then :/
[06:38] <carlos> really?
[06:38] <spiv> a cStringIO isn't a file, it's just file-like.
[06:38] <daf> sounds like stupid type checking in APT
[06:38] <spiv> Sounds like apt_pkg could be a bit smarter.
[06:38] <carlos> well, I will use a temporal file then...
[06:38] <spiv> But it may actually expect to pass the C layer an actual FILE * or something.
[06:38] <daf> ah, hmm
[06:38] <spiv> Yeah, use the tempfile module I guess.
[06:39] <daf> in that case, the C library is stupid :)
[06:39] <carlos> daf: :-P
[06:39] <daf> mdz: no offence meant
[06:40] <spiv> Heh.
[06:40] <daf> seriously, it seems useful to be able to parse data you have in memory without having to write it to a file
[06:43] <carlos> perfect
[06:43] <carlos> we have now a way to get the list of packages from warty
[06:43] <carlos> :-)
[06:44] <carlos> and it's only 15 lines of code
[06:46] <daf> isn't this what grep-dctrl does? :)
[06:47] <carlos> daf: I think it's more robust if we have already a parser for the format we need :-P
[06:47] <carlos> of course, the python-apt documentation sucks
[06:47] <carlos> because it's null
[06:47] <daf> carlos: hmm?
[06:47] <daf> carlos: aren't you parsing the Packages file?
[06:48] <carlos> Sources.bz2
[06:48] <carlos> conn = httplib.HTTPConnection("archive.ubuntu.com")
[06:48] <carlos> conn.request("GET", "/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.bz2")
[06:50] <daf> curl http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.bz2 | bzcat | grep-dctrl -n -s Package -e .
[06:50] <daf> :)
[06:51] <carlos> daf: error handling?
[06:51] <carlos> daf: and what happens if you want other fields? (like we need)
[06:51] <carlos> :-)
[06:52] <daf> just pulling your leg :)
[06:52] <carlos> :-P
[06:54] <carlos> I need some food...
[07:22] <daf> limi: I've implemented the "logged in as" feature
[07:22] <daf> limi: now it's your job to make it pretty :)
[07:23] <limi> hehe
[07:23] <daf> whenever you have the time...
[07:23] <cprov> daf: do you need any source or binpackage in rosetta ?
[07:24] <cprov> daf: cause I'll delete them and use real one instead
[07:25] <daf> no, we don't need them, I don't think
[07:31] <cprov> daf: ok, they will be deleted then
[07:31] <daf> deleted from where?
[07:39] <mdz> daf: python-apt is weird
[07:40] <daf> mdz: seems so
[07:41] <daf> mdz: it's not the C library making this requirement then?
[07:42] <mdz>    if (PyArg_ParseTuple(Args,"O!",&PyFile_Type,&File) == 0)
[07:42] <daf> ewwwww
[07:43] <mdz> daf: it actually needs a file descriptor
[07:43] <mdz> because that is what the underlying library expects
[07:43] <daf> ah, right
[07:43] <daf> doesn't the underlying library have a way of parsing an arbitrary chunk of data?
[07:43] <mdz> I want to rewrite libapt-pkg in python :-(
[07:44] <daf> wouldn't that mandate rewriting apt itself in Python? :)
[07:44] <mdz> daf: any rfc2822 parser should do
[07:44] <mdz> daf: yes, it would be delightful
[07:44] <daf> hmm, good point
[07:44] <mdz> no, I don't think it has an in-memory tagfile parser
[07:45] <mdz> daf: there are a whole bunch of Debian control file parsers floating around
[07:45] <mdz> there's one in linda
[07:45] <daf> on second thoughts, I don't think you could send a Sources file to the rfc822 module
[07:45] <mdz> there's one in apt-listchanges
[07:45] <mdz> (python implementations)
[07:46] <daf> that's silly
[07:46] <daf> of course, if python-apt sucks...
[07:46] <mdz> python-apt doesn't suck; it's just not very python :-)
[07:46] <mdz> it's very apt
[07:46] <carlos> mdz: I saw it, and they also relay on python-apt, only for the version comparation algorithm
[07:47] <mdz> carlos: right, because that bit is difficult, and the tag file parser is easy :-)
[07:47] <carlos> :-P
[07:47] <mdz> the world could use the One True Python Tag File Parser, though
[07:47] <mdz> one with a nice iterator interface
[07:47] <daf> yummy
[07:50] <stub> anyone know if there is someway to get a reference to the request if it has been lost?
[07:53] <SteveA> stub: you can get it from the interaction
[07:53] <SteveA> but, why has it been lost?
[07:54] <stub> Because one of Zope's classes doesn't want to pass it on :-(
[07:54] <SteveA> oh sucky
[07:54] <SteveA> well, there's a getInteraction somewhere
[07:54] <SteveA> and the interaction knows about the request
[07:55] <stub> The zcml addform directive creates a view on a container. This view creates subobjects. These subobjects have no access to the request as far as I can tell. The container also doesn't have access to request, so can't fix it up in its hook either :-)
[07:56] <SteveA> a container should not have access to a request
[07:56] <SteveA> as it is an app object, not a view
[07:57] <stub> Yup. And I don't want to subclass the addform view if I can help it, cause then I'd have to manually assemble the view rather than use the addform zcml directive.
[07:58] <stub> So where is this interaction? My use case for it dissappeared before it was implemented :-)
[07:59] <stub> (or the principal will do in this case...)
[09:06] <dilys> New bug 2055 for Launchpad/Soyuz: Should store gpg keysize in database
[09:06] <dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2055
[10:21] <dilys> New bug 2056 for Launchpad/Soyuz: Sort out component of "inherited" packages in derivatives.
[10:21] <dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2056


[00:10] <maic23> cjwatson: Sorry to ping you, but could you help me with my login issues. (see scrollback or  (Error ID: OOPS-b7f69926cc9941b4ea76d0e058b0227c) )
[04:38] <ppannuto> Hi all, is this the right place to ask for help with bugs.launchpad.net login issues? Every time I try to login I get:
[04:39] <ppannuto> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
[04:39] <ppannuto> We’ve recorded what happened, and we’ll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience.
[04:39] <ppannuto> (Error ID: OOPS-879aeb39159a170e1a99431e25059dc7)
[07:49] <miliu_desktop> HI, Does any one know how to extract data from Launchpad about bugs and blueprints?
[09:44] <rbasak> miliu_desktop: https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
[12:25] <cjwatson> mwhudson: I finally sent an RT for the git cherry-picks that should fix your golang import, so hopefully that'll get done in not too long
[12:26] <cjwatson> mwhudson: https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=98938 (internal only) if you want to track it
[18:14] <cjwatson> ppannuto: It looks like you have another existing and active Launchpad account (perhaps you deactivated your login.ubuntu.com account without first deactivating your Launchpad account?).  What do you want done with the two different accounts?
[23:48] <d3ngar> Hi there, I seem to not be able to import an OpenGPG key
[23:51] <d3ngar> It says: "Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key". Is there a way of testing this?


[00:18] <LPCIBot> Project windmill build #108: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 9 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill/108/
[05:06] <LPCIBot> Project windmill build #109: STILL FAILING in 53 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill/109/
[09:41] <lifeless> wgrant: if you're around, I'd like a second eyeballs over https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/736008/comments/12
[09:41] <_mup_> Bug #736008: Product:+code-index timeouts <qa-ok> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by lifeless> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/736008 >
[10:09] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #496: FAILURE in 4 hr 55 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/496/
[20:32] <lifeless> moin
[20:52] <jkakar> lifeless: Moin. :)
[20:57] <lifeless> jkakar: how goes the new job?
[21:14] <mwhudson> morning
[21:14] <lifeless> mwhudson: hi
[21:15] <lifeless> mwhudson: got a sec to talk (irc) about Product:+code-index
[21:15] <mwhudson> lifeless: sure
[21:15] <lifeless> so https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/736008/comments/12 is a new query I've put together that really does look better for determining outstanding merge proposals
[21:15] <_mup_> Bug #736008: Product:+code-index timeouts <qa-ok> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by lifeless> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/736008 >
[21:15] <mwhudson> (if you'll excuse small gaps in which i make toast)
[21:16]  * mwhudson looks
[21:18] <lifeless> there is one *definitional* difference between that and what runs today: both the source and target branch contexts are constrained
[21:19] <mwhudson> well sure, as we discussed before that sounds find
[21:19] <mwhudson> *fine
[21:20] <mwhudson> lifeless: it looks pretty sane to me, the with stuff makes it nice and readable
[21:21] <mwhudson> lifeless: i guess like you said, we should actually dump that query into a temp table, then count it and select .. limit $N from it
[21:26] <lifeless> lp is the worst project in lp for this query AFAICT
[21:26] <lifeless> its 5.5 seconds cold on qastaging
[21:26] <lifeless> the bit I don't like is we're defining unbounded-growth here
[21:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: does lp have the most private branches?
[21:27] <lifeless>    CTE scope_branches
[21:27] <lifeless>      ->  Bitmap Heap Scan on branch  (cost=143.45..11180.08 rows=7634 width=9) (actual time=4.790..29.200 rows=7634 loops=1)
[21:27] <lifeless>            Recheck Cond: (product = 10294)
[21:27] <lifeless>            ->  Bitmap Index Scan on branch__product__id__idx  (cost=0.00..141.55 rows=7634 width=0) (actual time=2.862..2.862 rows=7634 loops=1)
[21:27] <lifeless>                  Index Cond: (product = 10294)
[21:28] <lifeless> we're defining this on all branches for lp ever
[21:28] <lifeless> rather than 'all unmerged' or something similar
[21:28]  * thumper is off to the physio :-|
[21:28] <lifeless> thumper: be well
[21:28] <thumper> sprained my ankle Thursday last week
[21:28] <thumper> playing at camp
[21:29] <mwhudson> lifeless: well sure, but i'm (probably naively) assuming that most of the cost comes from checking the subsciptions of private branches; maybe not
[21:29] <mwhudson> thumper: at least bigjools wasn't there to land on :)
[21:29] <lifeless> mwhudson: yeah, AFAICT it does, yes.
[21:30] <mwhudson> lifeless: i guess you could filter scope_branches with the status filter -- i guess this is what you meant in comment #8
[21:31] <lifeless> mwhudson: thats the sort of thing, yes
[21:31] <mwhudson> which is still theoretically unbounded but much less likely to be a problem in practice
[21:32] <lifeless> mwhudson: a naive query can run this in a few ms; the with clause approaxh is always about 100ms [on lp branches] - but handles the privacy permission check better
[21:33] <lifeless> mm, not as fast as I thought it an
[21:33] <lifeless> *can*
[21:33] <lifeless> anyhow, I think this is an incremental win
[21:33] <mwhudson> yeah definitely
[21:33]  * mwhudson speculates
[21:34] <mwhudson> what would a completely blue sky fast-from-scratch design of this look like... maintaining the set of visible branches in cassandra or something?
[21:34] <mwhudson> i guess the space requirements would be a bit daft for that
[21:34] <lifeless> dropping the owner check halves the query time
[21:34] <lifeless> so the basic costs are:
[21:34] <lifeless>  - merge proposal visibility is independent of the merge proposal
[21:35] <lifeless>  - merge proposal scope is independent of the merge proposal
[21:35] <mwhudson> would not have guessed the owner check as expensive
[21:36] <lifeless> oh, I made a booboo on that test
[21:36] <lifeless> owner isn't incrementally expensive
[21:38] <lifeless> dropping the subscriber check is 40ms off the hot time
[21:38] <lifeless> and 45% off the cost estimate in the plan
[21:39] <jkakar> lifeless: The new gig is turning out to be really fun.  The team is great and we've begun a process to tackle a bunch of tech debt, which is moving quickly and will improve Fluidinfo in many ways.
[21:40] <lifeless> jkakar: cool
[21:40] <lifeless> mwhudson: so I think in cassandra you'd have a merge proposal column family
[21:41] <lifeless> mwhudson: which stores the visibility inline
[21:41] <lifeless> mwhudson: probably tie visibility to the user
[21:42] <mwhudson> and then fun games to update that when the user joins/leaves a team?
[21:42] <lifeless> mwhudson: e.g. users know what they can see [except admins]
[21:42] <lifeless> mwhudson: we already do updates of denormalised stuff
[21:42] <lifeless> mwhudson: e.g. teamparticipation as the primary exemplar
[21:42] <mwhudson> yes indeed
[21:42] <lifeless> which in fact is the only thing making the performance here tolerable
[21:43] <mwhudson> so you'd have to map something like "place that accesses TP today" -> "something that has to be updated when team membership changes"
[21:44] <lifeless> yes
[21:44] <lifeless> a halfway house might be useful - for particularly big teams, dereference to the team
[21:47] <lifeless> mwhudson: or alternatively, 'what is the disk space cost of storing a primary key for every private branchmergeproposal that a user is given access to'
[21:48] <lifeless> for large teams - hundreds or thousands of members, this could be quite large
[21:48] <mwhudson> yeah, indeed
[21:48] <lifeless> e.g. a MB per merge proposal
[21:48] <mwhudson> and similar for bugs, etc
[21:49] <lifeless> an interesting little thing we could do now though
[21:49] <lifeless> is to add a denormalised 'private' field to the bmp
[21:49] <mwhudson> (big table) x (big table) numbers are pretty scary :)
[21:50] <lifeless> that would let us do a union query, and only pay the privacy lookup for merge proposals of private branches
[21:50] <lifeless> anyhow, I'm going to code up this with clause now
[21:50] <lifeless> I might tap you for a review in a few
[21:50] <mwhudson> sure, sorry for the distraction :)
[21:50] <mwhudson> lifeless: sure, note that i'm only working a half day today
[21:51] <lifeless> no problem, totally on topic
[21:51] <mwhudson> cool
[21:51] <lifeless> mwhudson: kk
[21:51] <lifeless> hmm, that reminds me, I still haven't mailed flacoste about memorial day
[22:06] <wallyworld> thumper: morning. did you want a standup?
[22:06] <lifeless> mwhudson: also - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/742916
[22:06] <_mup_> Bug #742916: BranchMergeProposal:+index timeouts - slow query plan <dba> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/742916 >
[22:06] <lifeless> wallyworld: he's at the physio
[22:07] <wallyworld> lifeless: ah ok. thanks
[22:07]  * wallyworld goes to have breakfast then
[22:09] <mwhudson> lifeless: well, branchrevision is its own well known kettle of fail
[22:10] <mwhudson> one might be able to do something clever with a recursive with query on revision there
[22:11] <mwhudson> hang on, why are we filtering by date?
[22:15] <mwhudson> oh right, the comment makes sense now
[22:15] <mwhudson> won't all the revs have already been accessed for the 'unmerged revisions' section?
[22:16] <mwhudson> i guess that query is limited to 10
[22:39] <lifeless> mwhudson: right, so if we can rephrase it to be a traversal on branch
[22:39] <lifeless> mwhudson: or sequence limited or some such, we can probably make it massively more efficient
[22:39] <lifeless> mwhudson: some branches in lp have /huge/ revision counts
[22:40] <mwhudson> lifeless: it would be interesting to see how a recursive with that walked revision parents performed
[22:40] <lifeless> mwhudson: we seem to bring in maybe 10K fresh revision s aday
[22:40] <lifeless> mwhudson: during some days
[22:41] <mwhudson> ah, you mean lp overall here, not lp-the-project?
[22:41] <lifeless> yeah
[22:41] <lifeless> so if you look at the plan
[22:41] <lifeless> the 9772 or whatever it is, is new-revisions-in-that-period
[22:41] <lifeless> which then get looked up in branchrevision
[22:42] <mwhudson> oh
[22:42] <mwhudson> yeah, that doesn't seem very good
[22:42]  * thumper is trawling through email
[22:42] <lifeless> the obvious other vector - loading all revs in br first then filtering, is also not very good
[22:43] <mwhudson> right, that would work better for a smaller project than lp i guess
[22:43] <mwhudson> s/would/might/
[22:43] <lifeless> and cripple mr onion on bigger ones
[22:48] <lifeless> select branch, count(*) from branchrevision group by branch order by count(*) desc limit 10; - still running
[22:51] <mwhudson> i'm not surprised
[22:51] <mwhudson> launchpad is over half of that table iiuc
[22:51] <mwhudson> err
[22:52] <mwhudson> oh i expect the top few will be kernel imports though
[22:52] <wgrant> Morning.
[22:53] <lifeless> mwhudson: the table is 34GB
[22:53] <lifeless> mwhudson: 10% of LP
[22:53] <lifeless> mwhudson: the *indices* are bigger
[22:54] <lifeless> mwhudson: still -  branch | count
[22:54] <lifeless> --------+--------
[22:54] <lifeless>  275684 | 233206
[22:54] <lifeless>  401221 | 222008
[22:54] <lifeless>  409550 | 212471
[22:54] <lifeless> mwhudson: is where we need to scale up to
[23:08] <lifeless> jkakar: still up ?
[23:09] <thumper> lifeless: abentley and jam worked together for a plan to replace branchrevision
[23:09] <thumper> lifeless: we should really bump up the priority on getting that actually in and working
[23:09] <thumper> lifeless: using bzr-historydb
[23:09] <thumper> lifeless: backed by postgresql
[23:09] <thumper> lifeless: all the existing uses for branch revision would be catered for
[23:09] <thumper> lifeless: and much less disk space
[23:10] <mwhudson> then it would be awesome to hook loggerhead into the same data
[23:10] <lifeless> that would be cool, yes.
[23:10] <lifeless> uhm
[23:10] <wgrant> thumper: Is it safe to use on such an untrusted scale?
[23:10] <lifeless> I haven't looked at the detail of that plan
[23:10] <thumper> mwhudson: yes, the plan was to have loggerhead use the same data
[23:10] <mwhudson> wgrant: it's not like the approach we're using is safe :)
[23:10] <thumper> wgrant: don't know
[23:10] <lifeless> I'd like to do so before talking prioritisation of it - we're not using the existing data structure anywhere near as well as we can
[23:10] <wgrant> eg. what happens if I deliberately introduce revid collisons?
[23:11] <wgrant> mwhudson: True.
[23:11] <thumper> lifeless: go and look at it and chat with abentley and jam, they know everything :)
[23:16] <lifeless> mwhudson: you finish in 45 right?
[23:16] <mwhudson> lifeless: probably more like 75
[23:17] <lifeless> mwhudson: so, I've just figured out the voodoo to reuse select expressions in With clauses
[23:17] <thumper> phew
[23:17] <thumper> unread emails all looked at
[23:18] <lifeless> but I'd like your review on the patch proper; how about I push up [when I've done it] the lp changes without the new storm, you review that expecting me to bump the storm egg trivially, and on we go ?
[23:18] <lifeless> this is the bit for storm:
[23:18] <lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/45270/
[23:21] <mwhudson> lifeless: that sounds sane enough
[23:22] <wgrant> What :/
[23:22] <wgrant> I'm running process-upload.py on DF with LP_DEBUG_SQL=1
[23:22] <wgrant> And processing this source upload is going through hundreds of unrelated binarypackagenames.
[23:22] <lifeless> wgrant: \o/
[23:23] <wgrant> Oh.
[23:23] <wgrant> P-a-s, you need to die.
[23:24] <wgrant> So *that's* why it takes several minutes to run.
[23:39] <lifeless> oh damn
[23:39] <lifeless> some constraints should apply to just the source branch
[23:40] <lifeless> e.g. owned by
[23:40] <lifeless> and branchcollection doesn't distinguish
[23:45]  * lifeless swears about BranchCollection some more
[23:51] <thumper> don't dis the collection
[23:55] <lifeless> wgrant: you're qaing?
[23:57] <wgrant> lifeless: We're up to date.
[23:58] <wgrant> There was only one item that wasn't covered over the weekend.
[23:58] <thumper> lifeless: I have a question for you about a review you did before I was off last week


[23:44] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: FYI, I am pretty busy in Ardour again. I seem to have made it past my stumbling block in the GUI (well most of them) and need to get this portion of things finished. Each button or function change seems like a new experience :)
[23:46] <OvenWerks> I do have some more ideas for -controls but will not add them till next cycle. I may even get to the drawing tablets... but audio first. (where there is already a list)