 We know some of you are having problems connecting, but it will be ready SOON!"
[02:52] <greg-g> 10 hours ago via twitter
[02:52] <snap-l> http://jamendo.com/en
[02:53] <snap-l> Wow, this is dreadful
[02:54] <snap-l> They've just made finding stuff on their site 10x worse for me
[02:56] <snap-l> I hope it's partly some growing pains
[02:57] <snap-l> because if this is the final product, I'm going to be getting most of my music via bandcamp from now on
[03:00] <greg-g> also, apparently they removed search by license, according to mlinksva
[03:01] <snap-l> Well, their search is for shit right now
[03:01] <snap-l> But that wouldn't surprise me
[03:04] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/04/windows-8-on-the-desktopan-awkward-hybrid.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
[03:05] <snap-l> Next time I feel the need to bitch about Unity, someone please bring up this article to show how bad it could have been
[10:44] <rick_h> morning
[10:57] <snap-l> greg-g: You can still search by license on Jamendo
[10:57] <snap-l> just happens that the search doesn't work. ;)
[10:58] <snap-l> at least it doesn't work if you use "Latest Releases"
[11:06] <snap-l> I thnk I figured it out.
[11:10] <snap-l> well, maybe not
[11:30] <rick_h> oooh, I might have to do an emergency laundry load pre-CHC today
[11:31] <rick_h> from march 20th to april 25th, long turn around time
[11:31] <rick_h> old school '4-6wks' kind of thing
[11:40] <brousch> 4-6 weeks to get your laundry done?
[11:40] <rick_h> hjkl shirt from teespring
[11:40] <rick_h> forgot I ordered it actually until I saw http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/srk1q/ama_request_someone_who_has_been_delivered_their/
[11:41] <brousch> you can wear it without washing it first
[11:48] <rick_h> no, can't wear new clothes without a washing, nope nope nope
[11:54] <brousch> i do it all th time
[12:30] <brousch> grrrr. osx lion's workspaces are driving me nuts
[12:30] <brousch> they randomly re-order themsels
[12:31] <brousch> even gnome3 is more consistent
[12:33] <rick_h> hah
[12:35] <snap-l> rick_h: Um, is it shipping today?
[12:35] <rick_h> no, usps today
[12:35] <snap-l> You sure?
[12:35] <rick_h> which means I know what I'm sporting during my talk this weekend! bwuhahaha
[12:35] <rick_h> snap-l: USPS tracking says yesterday it was at clarkston Post Office
[12:36] <rick_h> so assuming they can get it on the delivery truck in one day
[12:39] <snap-l> This is the post office we're talking about. :)
[12:44] <jrwren> it is clarkston we are talking about
[12:45] <rick_h> :P
[12:49] <widox> rick_h: oooo, I've been waiting for mine
[12:49] <widox> longest online order, ever
[12:49] <rick_h> yea, no kidding right?
[12:50] <rick_h> I thuoght I was ordering originally but guess it was just the "pre-order" phase until they reached the numbers required for a printing
[13:14] <jrwren> wtf are you talking about?
[13:14] <jrwren> surely not raspberry pi
[13:15] <rick_h> jrwren: no, hjkl shirts
[13:15] <rick_h> see http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/srk1q/ama_request_someone_who_has_been_delivered_their/
[13:19] <jrwren> lol
[13:20] <rick_h> hmm, there are some cool designs there on teespring, but I can't find a good way to browse ongoing campains
[13:20] <rick_h> sucky
[13:25] <brousch> i was hoping to wait a week, but i'm biting the bullet tonight. putting a new HD in the dell. too many annoyances on osx and too many upcoming linux demos i need to do
[13:25] <rick_h> yea, either do it later or after
[13:26] <jrwren> do you at least have an apple KB with your mac?
[13:27] <brousch> it's a MBP
[13:27] <brousch> nice machine. lovely touchpad, but i miss the nipple now
[13:28] <rick_h> bwuhahaha
[13:34] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[13:34] <ColonelPanic001> I've accidently typed before on unfamiliar laptops, trying to use the keyboard nipple
[13:34] <ColonelPanic001> "oh, right, some laptops don't have them"
[13:36] <brousch> on the dell i got used to using the nipple to control the pointer and the tiny touchpad to scroll
[13:39] <brousch> i wish i could afford a 500GB SSD
[13:39] <rick_h> hmmm, big ssd...in raid...
[13:39] <brousch> for the laptop
[13:39] <rick_h> hmm, raid ssd on the laptop
[13:40] <rick_h> :P
[13:40] <brousch> remove the DVD and add a second ssd?
[13:41] <rick_h> yea
[13:41] <rick_h> on the larger laptops
[13:43] <brousch> hm, i think i can get away with 200GB if i move a bunch of pictures and videos to my desktop
[13:43] <rick_h> I've been good as a 120 with getting pics/music off and using online/streaming for access
[13:50] <jrwren> brousch: as a previous nipple fan, i've no idea how you can miss the nipple with how good an apple touchpad is.
[13:51] <jrwren> on a windows or linux laptop, esp a thinkpad with its 10cm by 10cm touchpad, the nipple > touchpad, but on a mac with a nice 6" by 6" touchpad, the touchpad > nipple.  <-- i exagerate of course
[13:52] <jrwren> I have a 64GB SSD and I am fine, I don't need any more because I don't store movies & music on it.
[13:53] <rick_h> yea, I'm at 38GB on a fresh install. 64gb gets cramped, especially when I was doing screencasts/editing video
[13:53] <brousch> rick_h: oh yeah, music too
[13:54] <brousch> i could carry around a usb HD if i need more storage temporarily
[13:55] <rick_h> I have a 2.5" spinning disk in a usb/esata carrier I keep in my bag
[13:55] <rick_h> it's for all the big stuff, on the road needs
[13:55] <brousch> right
[13:55] <rick_h> esata ftw, I can't wait to upgrade the laptop and have true esata on board
[13:56] <brousch> jrwren: i felt the same way when i switched from MBP to dell with nipple, now i think i prefer the nipple
[13:56] <widox> VMs also eat up space quickly, I've been doing good on my 120GB SSD though
[13:56] <rick_h> yea, but I honestly haven't gotten past 1 or 2 vms usually
[13:56] <brousch> i just run little server VMs
[13:56] <rick_h> and that's definitely a good esata use case I think
[13:57] <brousch> oooh, OCZ 128GB for $130
[13:58] <brousch> or sandisk 120GB for $130
[13:58] <brousch> or even kingston 120GB. those seem reasonable
[13:59] <rick_h> just compare reviews/numbers on them
[13:59] <brousch> sandisk looks good
[14:01] <jrwren> brousch: i was a huge trackpoint fan 10 yrs ago. these days I only prefer them when the touchpad sucks (sadly most do)
[14:01] <jrwren> I do not use VMs
[14:01] <brousch> oh man, newegg has a 1 day $30 discount on it too. $100 for this 120GB sandisk
[14:01] <jrwren> at least not on a laptop
[14:02] <rick_h> brousch: shoot, get that and at least stick it in the desktop
[14:04] <brousch> i'm going for it
[14:05] <brousch> if anyone else is interested: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171545
[14:05] <jrwren> very tempting.
[14:05] <jrwren> i could use it in my server.
[14:06] <jrwren> replace the dying drive that hangs my server occasionaly
[14:28] <jrwren> !!! https://developers.google.com/speed/spdy/mod_spdy/
[14:28] <rick_h> what?
[14:28] <jrwren> google released mod_spdy for apache under apache license.
[14:29] <jrwren> looks pretty sweet.
[14:29] <rick_h> yea, they've had a mod_spdy for a while, year ish?
[14:29] <rick_h> 1.3yr it looks like by ticket tracker
[14:31] <rick_h> supposedly nginx is supposed to be getting something this summer
[14:45] <jrwren> but this is a release
[14:47] <rick_h> lol http://goo.gl/81eyw
[14:47] <jrwren> oh, maybe not.
[14:47] <jrwren> sorry for the spam then.
[14:47] <rick_h> yea, it's cool. I hope to use it sometime, but I've gone nginx so now I'm waiting for it
[14:48] <rick_h> would love to see how it'd work for us on LP, but that's webops not me
[14:50] <jrwren> very funny
[14:50] <jrwren> *gasp* rick_h the nginx hipster
[14:51] <jrwren> does nginx have a nice wsgi module?
[14:53] <rick_h> no, I run uwsgi or gunicorn behind it
[14:53] <rick_h> it's got a wsgi proxy bit I use
[14:54] <rick_h> I need to update the doc: http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/hosting.html#nginx-config
[14:55] <snap-l> rick_h: That user agent string thing is the truth
[14:55] <snap-l> what a complete cluster that became
[14:56] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, thuoght people could appreciate that
[15:18] <brousch> gunicorn is the bizomb
[15:18] <brousch> for django
[15:29] <JonEdney> Good morning folks.
[15:29] <snap-l> Howdy
[15:53] <rick_h> kind of cool http://i.imgur.com/k0pv0.jpg
[15:53] <snap-l> Kind of sad
[15:54] <greg-g> so much brand management it is amazing
[15:55] <snap-l> What's also interesting is the overlap
[15:56] <snap-l> A&W is both Dr. Pepper / Snapple  and Pepsico
[15:56] <rick_h> oh wow, didn't notice that
[15:56] <snap-l> And they don't even cover Vernors
[15:56] <greg-g> whoa
[15:57] <snap-l> work a summer in Bottle Return sometime. ;)
[15:58] <snap-l> Also, I'm not entirely sure on the 7up line
[15:58] <greg-g> haha
[15:59] <snap-l> wikipedia says it's part of Cadbury / Schweppes
[15:59] <jrwren> I own Kraft.
[15:59] <snap-l> jrwren: Kraft owns you.
[15:59] <brousch> snap-l: machines do that now
[15:59] <rick_h> jrwren: heh that's what I was thinkihng. If kraft goes away I'm doomed
[15:59] <jrwren> got some shared when phillop morris, err.. i mean altria sold off their holding
[15:59] <jrwren> it was very fun to own and see all that they hold.
[15:59] <jrwren> so I knew a lot of the Kraft side of that image.
[15:59] <rick_h> ah, gotcha
[15:59] <rick_h> own as in stock
[16:00] <rick_h> I was looking at the products I use and which side I'm most dep. on
[16:00] <snap-l> Yeah, Kraft is HUUUUUGE
[16:00] <snap-l> Nabisco was a big purchase for them
[16:01] <brousch> for you geeks with kids http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004UISEUG/ref=pe_175190_21431760_C1_cs_sce_dp_1
[16:01] <snap-l> I'm a geek without kids, and I want.
[16:01] <rick_h> lol
[16:02] <snap-l> Alas, I have just paid for Rush tickets
[16:02] <snap-l> floor level
[16:02] <snap-l> Alex side
[16:03] <snap-l> Section C
[16:03] <snap-l> http://www.palacenet.com/files/palace_gcs_map.pdf
[16:03] <rick_h> hah
[16:03] <rick_h> you'll have to come by for dinner while you're up this way
[16:03] <snap-l> I will now be selling off my worldly posessions.
[16:03] <brousch> bah, rush is a fad. R2D2 wall decals are forever
[16:04] <snap-l> rick_h: It'll be tight to get there. 7:30pm
[16:04] <rick_h> gotcha
[16:04] <snap-l> Hoping JoDee can get time off as well
[16:04] <rick_h> lol, I forgot I got one of these vim shirts for my wife too
[16:04] <rick_h> slowly geeking her out with python shirts and such
[16:04] <snap-l> because she'll be a pissed off camper
[16:04] <rick_h> ty pyladies
[16:05] <brousch> your wife is writing python?
[16:07] <rick_h> no, but got some pyladies gear at pycon
[16:07] <rick_h> she's got a few geek shirts not, launchpad, pyladies, now vim
[16:07] <brousch> mine sticks to scifi
[16:08] <snap-l> Yeah, but will the gloves come off when she says she likes JQuery?
[16:08] <jrwren> not just the gloves
[16:09] <brousch> let's see if we can get her into ruby
[16:09] <rick_h> hah! I was debating trying to get a YUI shirt overnighted
[16:09] <rick_h> hey, I respect ruby, just can't find a use case where python doesn't work for me
[16:09] <rick_h> honestly, I've read more ruby material than anything other than Python and JS at this poing :/
[16:09] <snap-l> "we'll stay together for the boy, but it's a loveless marriage"
[16:09] <rick_h> hah!
[16:12] <jrwren> same here.
[16:12] <jrwren> my current employer has large python investment and zero ruby
[16:12] <jrwren> plus, I feel the python VM world is many years ahead of ruby.
[16:12] <rick_h> I keep wanting to find use cases for ruby, but I just don't find hte 'this is ruby's perfect use case that python isn't good at'
[16:13] <rick_h> so I try to keep an eye on it, learn from it's differences, but just not written much of it
[16:41] <snap-l> Pro Tip: HMOs are worthless.
[16:50] <jrwren> yeah?
[16:51] <snap-l> unless you enjoy asking "mother, may I" of a primary care physician
[16:51] <snap-l> which you'll probably have to select from a narrow list because there's very few doctors who can afford the insurance-mandated pay cut.
[16:51] <snap-l> ie: most of the Beaumont doctors out there.
[16:53] <jrwren> i went from buying my own healthcare to the new job's company plan and my employee contribution portion is actually MORE than it cost me to buy a plan for my family.
[16:53] <snap-l> Yeah
[16:54] <jrwren> I'd not use my emp heathcare, and keep buying myself except that once you figure the emp contrib is taxfree, it makes sense again.
[16:54] <jrwren> but still, its disgusting
[16:55] <greg-g> jrwren: oh man, yeah. We about did me on empl plan (since I'm free) and then put carrie/rowan on something else even though work covers them 50%
[16:55] <greg-g> since the plan options we had weren't competitive (for families thinking about cost)
[16:56] <greg-g> (we really aren't a family org, given the paternity policy was written the week Rowan was born, because of his birth, and the maternity policy is still being written, hopefully in time for my coworker's birth ;) )
[16:57] <rick_h> that's surprising
[16:57] <greg-g> we do the high deductible plan now (with a nice HSA earning interest) since we rarely use it and rowan's checkups are free
[16:57] <rick_h> but paternatity stuff has always been absent in US companies I found I guess
[16:57] <greg-g> yeah, except in CA for the last 10 years ;)
[16:58] <greg-g> I mean, just surprising they had neither
[17:00] <rick_h> yea, I would have expected a CA company with lots of young progressives like CC to have it
[17:00] <jrwren> how big is the company?
[17:01] <greg-g> 20ish
[17:01] <jrwren> yeah a company that small has no time to waste on such policies.
[17:03] <snap-l> Well, and the beauty part is now I get to explain that JoDee's gone off to Urgent Care to get something checked out to someone whom I pretty much picked this morning
[17:03] <greg-g> ...until the first one comes around, yeah
[17:03] <snap-l> out of a doctor directory.
[17:04] <rick_h> heh, yea. we had to get a family doc
[17:04] <rick_h> I happen to know a few :)
[17:04] <snap-l> rick_h: You're lucky.
[17:04] <snap-l> My previous doctor doesn't participate in the HMO
[17:04] <snap-l> as apparently neither do most of Beaumont's doctors.
[17:05] <rick_h> ah
[17:07] <snap-l> I'm sure this won't be covered, and frankly I'm considering just asking to have the whole plan canceled.
[17:08] <snap-l> because I asked to have it changed to a PPO, but the window to change it had lapsed.
[17:08] <snap-l> and this is utter bullshit.
[17:09] <snap-l> And for everyone who thinks that the healthcare system in this country is just hunky dory peachy keen need to form an orderly line so I can kick you in the head.
[17:45] <shakes808> Good day all
[17:45] <shakes808> I have a question, for I am a new Linux user
[17:45] <rick_h> ask away
[17:46] <greg-g> I also have tons of questions, even though I'm not a new linux user ;) But we might be able to answer yours.
[17:46] <shakes808> I have LAMP set up on my laptop and when I am in Eclipse trying to test out some PHP, I can't make my directory choice to www/var
[17:46] <shakes808> I have been looking through google searches for awhile and can't find one that will work
[17:46] <shakes808> I tried to move the directory but via sudo
[17:46] <greg-g> it is /var/www/ most likely
[17:46] <shakes808> but I can't reach that level
[17:47] <greg-g> I wouldn't move the directory
[17:47] <shakes808> yeah I know
[17:47] <shakes808> I sudo'd a directory there for PHP
[17:47] <shakes808> but can't write anything in there
[17:47] <shakes808> is there a way to get access for that?
[17:47] <shakes808> I know it is a bad choice to be root
[17:47] <greg-g> you created a directory where, exactly? What is the output of pwd when you are in it?
[17:47] <shakes808> so Ihave been seeing
[17:48] <shakes808> The LAMP is at the most base level. When I am in Terminal I have to go 2 levels before home
[17:48] <shakes808> Eclipse defaults to home/workspace
[17:48] <shakes808> or something close
[17:49] <rick_h> right, but /var/www isn't writable by your user by default. it's owned by www-data user/group if I recall
[17:49] <rick_h> so the general idea is to setup a directory you own, and add a virtualhost config to apache to point to it
[17:49] <shakes808> and how do I gain access to be that user
[17:49] <rick_h> or else change the /var/www owner to your account
[17:49] <shakes808> I don't want to mess with it too much, so how do I make the owner my acct?
[17:49] <rick_h> sudo chown -R $youruser:$youruser /var/www
[17:50] <shakes808> and this will give me access to it?
[17:50] <rick_h> right, then you'll own it and can write to it
[17:50] <rick_h> you can check the permissions by doing ls -al /var/www
[17:50] <shakes808> $youruser:$youruser         no pass needed?
[17:51] <rick_h> it'll show you who owns and what permission settings are on the directory
[17:51] <rick_h> you'll have to enter a password when you use sudo
[17:51] <shakes808> alright
[17:51] <rick_h> the $youruser:$youruser is setting the owner to user you, group you
[17:51] <rick_h> username:groupname
[17:51] <rick_h> actually, you probably want yourusername:www-data so that apache can still read/serve the files
[17:54] <shakes808> I did the the sudo chown -R $un:$usn /var/www and it doesn't show up in the ls -al /var/www
[17:54] <rick_h> what does ls -al /var/www show?
[17:54] <rick_h> now, you didn't succeed in moving the directory right? You mentioned trying to?
[17:54] <shakes808> total 20 drwxr-xr-x  4 root root 4096 2012-04-25 12:30 . drwxr-xr-x 14 root root 4096 2012-04-24 06:31 .. drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2012-04-12 22:11 html -rw-r--r--  1 root root  177 2012-04-12 21:36 index.html drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2012-04-25 12:30 php
[17:55] <shakes808> right
[17:55] <rick_h> put your output into a pastebin like this please: http://paste.mitechie.com/
[17:55] <shakes808> can you see it?
[17:56] <shakes808> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/648/
[17:56] <rick_h> right, see how all the files are owned by root:root?
[17:56] <shakes808> yes
[17:56] <rick_h> you want them owned by you:www-data
[17:56] <shakes808> alright so then the usn:www-data
[17:56] <shakes808> do I need the $
[17:56] <shakes808> or not for this one?
[17:57] <rick_h> check out: http://catcode.com/teachmod/
[17:57] <rick_h> it'll go through how to use chmod and help explain things a bit
[17:58] <shakes808> alright, thank you
[17:58] <shakes808> I will take a look at it
[17:59] <rick_h> sorry, end of the day you'll need to understand this because you'll hit issues with this going forward
[17:59] <brousch> shakes808: is there a reason you need things in /var/www ?
[18:00] <brousch> wouldn't it be easier to install the apache userdir module (or whatever that's called) and work in your ~/public ?
[18:00] <rick_h> because otherwise he needs to learn how to write apache virtualhosts :)
[18:01] <shakes808> When I was working with Windows, I had the WAMP installed and that is just where I am used to seeing the files
[18:01] <shakes808> localhost goes there
[18:01] <brousch> i think we need to determine if this box is going to be an actual server or is just for dev
[18:01] <shakes808> and I don't know how to change any of that
[18:01] <rick_h> brousch: yea, but I don't think the apache config comes ootb with userdir setup and such
[18:01] <shakes808> I figured it was just standard
[18:01] <brousch> because chaing permissions on /var/www is not a good idea for a real server
[18:02] <shakes808> The stuff that I am doing is just practice and what not.
[18:02] <brousch> ok
[18:02] <shakes808> When I get my server built, up and running, I will look more into it all.
[18:03] <shakes808> For right now, I just want to get familiar with PHP / MySQL stuff for projects that I want to try to work on
[18:03] <brousch> rick_h: you're right, there's a lot more to userdir than i remembered http://www.techytalk.info/enable-userdir-apache-module-ubuntu-debian-based-linux-distributions/
[18:04] <shakes808> I also want to try to get some Python going for the web. I am not 100% on board with it but am hearing that it is pretty good
[18:04] <brousch> python is the bizomb
[18:04] <brousch> forget php
[18:04] <shakes808> lol
[18:04] <shakes808> I don't like the non-structuredness of Python
[18:05] <shakes808> I like C++ where you have definitive { }
[18:05] <shakes808> I did see the joke of #{ and #}
[18:06] <brousch> non-structured?
[18:06] <greg-g> uhoh, queue rick_h
[18:06] <shakes808> that doesn't help when the whole premise is indents
[18:06] <greg-g> ;)
[18:06] <brousch> you don't need curly braces, it's all done with indentation
[18:06] <shakes808> if something is not properly indented then it throws the whole thing off
[18:06] <rick_h> I did php for a living for 5+ years
[18:06] <rick_h> if I never write another line my life will be happy
[18:06] <shakes808> lol
[18:06] <rick_h> I now get paid to write python web for the last...4 years?
[18:07] <brousch> just like if something is not properly {} it will be wrong
[18:07] <rick_h> python web > php web
[18:07] <shakes808> And you like Python better?
[18:07] <shakes808> why?
[18:07] <rick_h> no questions about it
[18:07] <shakes808> But finding { } is easier than a section not indented or indented too much
[18:07] <rick_h> python is a better language, the standard library is better, writing it is better, the load an app and keep it running vs reparse on every request is better
[18:07] <snap-l> I worked with PHP for ~1 year. Reading other people's PHP code will make you not want to write PHP.
[18:07] <rick_h> no no no no no no no no
[18:07] <rick_h> if you're writing php and not using phpcodesniffer stop...go get it...and run it
[18:08] <rick_h> then go make your php acceptable and come back and talk
[18:08] <shakes808> lol
[18:08] <brousch> shakes808: it's actually really easy to see the code structure when it's indented properly
[18:08] <rick_h> every language should be written to a code convention which includes newlines/indentention
[18:08] <rick_h> the space significance in python is great, and pep8 means that most python is 10x more readable than php ootb
[18:08] <rick_h> does it take a little getting used to? sure, but I mean it takes a day
[18:09] <rick_h> shakes808: where are you located?
[18:09] <shakes808> MI
[18:09] <rick_h> I figured that :P
[18:09] <shakes808> I think I met you rick_h
[18:09] <shakes808> :D
[18:10] <shakes808> I believe I work with snap-l
[18:10] <rick_h> if you're in the SE area come to penguicon this weekend, or CoffeeHouseCoders any wed and I'll fix your anti-pythonisms
[18:10] <rick_h> shakes808: ah, ok
[18:10] <rick_h> shakes808: so you were at MUG right?
[18:10] <shakes808> Yes
[18:10] <shakes808> I believe I sat behind you
[18:10] <shakes808> You did a presentation
[18:10] <shakes808> the first one
[18:10] <rick_h> then dude, come to CHC, we'll fix your PHP issues and your python h8
[18:10] <shakes808> correct?
[18:10] <rick_h> right
[18:10] <rick_h> discussion awesome python tools ;)
[18:10] <shakes808> :D
[18:11] <rick_h> discussing that is
[18:11] <shakes808> about.... the HTTP request?
[18:11] <rick_h> right, httpcode and something else
[18:12] <snap-l> shakes808: You believe correctly.
[18:12] <shakes808> :D
[18:12] <brousch> ah, good, another soul saved by rick_h
[18:13] <shakes808> CHC every Wednesday night, I will try to come next week.
[18:13] <shakes808> HA HA
[18:14] <rick_h> shakes808: yea, go tell John that you told me you don't like python because of spaces. I bet he'll be surprised you survived. :)
[18:14] <shakes808> HA HA
[18:14] <shakes808> I will when I am in the office tomorrow
[18:14] <shakes808> :D
[18:15] <shakes808> Eclipse has a Python plugin?
[18:15] <rick_h> bah... :P
[18:15] <shakes808> I know I know
[18:15] <shakes808> VI
[18:15] <shakes808> VIM
[18:15] <shakes808> lol
[18:15] <shakes808> I am not that good... yet
[18:15] <shakes808> :D
[18:15] <shakes808> I messed with it for a moment
[18:15] <rick_h> yea, there's pydev
[18:15] <rick_h> but also check out wingide and pycharm
[18:15] <shakes808> I come from Visual Studios and intellisense :D
[18:15] <brousch> i still like pydev
[18:16] <brousch> it works well
[18:16] <brousch> and t's free
[18:16] <shakes808> Eclipse is free as well
[18:16] <brousch> yeah, so i think it's a good thing to try if you're used to big IDEs
[18:17] <brousch> it's been rolled into Aptana Studio now. http://www.aptana.com/products/studio3/download
[18:17] <brousch> aptana studio also has all of the web plugins you'll need to do web stuff
[18:21] <shakes808> but that one, if I remember correctly, you have to pay for it
[18:21] <brousch> nope
[18:22] <brousch> it's just eclipse pre-bundled with good stuff
[18:22] <shakes808> gotcha
[18:25] <shakes808> what version of Python should I get for web?
[18:26] <snap-l> I'd stick with the 2.7 series for now
[18:26] <snap-l> with the understanding that at some point you'll want to move to Python 3
[18:26] <snap-l> 2.7 / 2.8 have features in them that are backported from Python 3
[18:26] <shakes808> Then why not just go to 3?
[18:27] <snap-l> Not every library has been ported yet.
[18:27] <shakes808> alright
[18:27] <snap-l> But significant effort is underway that it's a question of when, not if, Python 3 will be adopted.
[18:28] <snap-l> I'd give it about a year / year and a half before folks stop recommending 2.x series Python
[18:28] <snap-l> but not yet.
[18:29] <shakes808> alright
[18:29] <shakes808> If I am in Eclipse and in the Install Software area to get download the necessary stuff for Python, what is the site I need to enter? http://www.python.org/download/ isn't recognized
[18:30] <shakes808> or is there a terminal way?
[18:30] <snap-l> shakes808: If it's all the same, don't use eclipse. :)
[18:30] <shakes808> I don't think I am ready for VIM
[18:30] <shakes808> lol
[18:31] <snap-l> You're on Linux, right?
[18:31] <shakes808> and Eclipse makes everything in one convenient place
[18:31] <shakes808> yes
[18:31] <snap-l> Python is already installed.
[18:31] <shakes808> How do I check?
[18:31] <snap-l> type `python` in a terminal
[18:32] <shakes808> HA HA
[18:32] <shakes808> sweet
[18:32] <shakes808> So then just use VIM lol
[18:32] <shakes808> since that is just command line stuff
[18:33] <snap-l> Yep, or for very simple programs you can use the Python interpreter
[18:33] <shakes808> So then I have to dig up my old Python book from my game class
[18:33] <shakes808> :D
[18:33] <shakes808> lol\
[18:33] <snap-l> ie: type `print(2+2)` should print out 4
[18:33] <shakes808> is there a Python interpreter default on here?
[18:33] <shakes808> I already print "hello world"
[18:33] <shakes808> lol
[18:34] <snap-l> When you type `python` without specifying a program to run, it'll bring up the REPL
[18:34] <snap-l> (Read - Eval - Print Loop)
[18:34] <shakes808> ?
[18:35] <snap-l> (the interpeter  with the >>> prompt)
[18:35] <shakes808> yes, but that is just one liners
[18:36] <snap-l> Funny enough, because it's Python, you can create more than one-liners. :)
[18:36] <shakes808> I have to use VIM for whole programs
[18:36] <snap-l> type in:
[18:36] <shakes808> lol
[18:36] <snap-l> for i in range(1,10):
[18:36] <snap-l>     print i
[18:36] <snap-l> and hit return again
[18:37] <shakes808> lol
[18:37] <shakes808> cool
[18:38] <snap-l> I wouldn't recommend writing entire programs that way, but it is handy for non-trivial one-liners.
[18:38] <shakes808> I will hold off on some of this stuff until next week for CHC's crash course ;) lol
[18:43] <shakes808> rick_h: For the web stuff, what do you use?
[18:45] <rick_h> shakes808: as far as what? python?
[18:45] <rick_h> what framework?
[18:47] <shakes808> yea
[18:47] <rick_h> I use pyramid, zope at work
[18:47] <rick_h> I'd suggest starting with flask if you're new to python
[18:47] <rick_h> it's tough to learn a framwork and language at the same time
[18:48] <rick_h> so almost say try to start going python with cmd line scripts/etc
[18:48] <rick_h> that's a big plus for python, you can use it for cmd line, gui tools, web tools
[18:48] <rick_h> it's a very featured language
[18:49] <shakes808> I have had an intro to game class where Python was the language
[18:49] <shakes808> It was fun
[18:49] <shakes808> :D
[18:49] <shakes808> but frusturating
[18:49] <snap-l> Did you use Pygame?
[18:49] <shakes808> yes
[18:49] <snap-l> What did you find frustrating about it?
[18:49] <shakes808> just the indents
[18:49] <shakes808> lol
[18:49] <shakes808> the language in general
[18:49] <snap-l> Bah
[18:49] <shakes808> but it was pretty easy to understand
[18:50] <snap-l> https://sourceforge.net/projects/busybusybugs/
[18:50] <shakes808> but  when  you have 500+ lines and something isn't working correctly and the debugging sucks, unless there is a good debugger that I don't know about
[18:50] <snap-l> There is
[18:50] <snap-l> but the trick is to not shove everything into one file
[18:50] <snap-l> unlike the example I just posted. ;)
[18:51] <shakes808> lol downloading it
[18:51] <shakes808> When getting something from sourceforge, I am getting the zip of the entire project, correct?
[18:51] <snap-l> Yeah
[18:56] <widox> rick_h: get your vim t-shirt?
[18:56] <shakes808> I need to install pygame
[18:57] <shakes808> lol
[19:00] <rick_h> widox: yep, came in
[19:01] <shakes808> question
[19:01] <shakes808> ....
[19:01] <shakes808> nevermind I think I know what I did
[19:01] <widox> rick_h: ah, just see your tweet. is it grey or black?
[19:01] <shakes808> for got sudo
[19:02] <rick_h> widox: black
[19:02] <widox> ok, mine too. its looked a bit light in the pic
[19:02] <rick_h> yea, bad pic
[19:02] <shakes808> says it is unable to locate the package after the dependencys were done downloading
[19:05] <rick_h> shakes808: more info please?
[19:06] <rick_h> jcastro: your post looks empty?
[19:07] <shakes808> lol
[19:07] <shakes808> I did sudo apt-get python pygames and it put out
[19:07] <rick_h> heh
[19:07] <rick_h> so sudo apt-get insteall python will install python
[19:07] <shakes808> Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree        Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package pygame
[19:08] <rick_h> to see if pygrames is packages you need to
[19:08] <rick_h> apt-cache search pygame
[19:08] <rick_h> python-pygame - SDL bindings for games development in Python
[19:08] <rick_h> so you'd need to do:
[19:08] <rick_h> sudo apt-get insteall python-pygame
[19:08] <rick_h> install taht is
[19:08] <rick_h> or use the software center to search pygame and find it
[19:08] <shakes808> alright
[19:08] <shakes808> working
[19:09] <shakes808> I want to try to NOT use software center
[19:09] <shakes808> I won't learn Linux that way
[19:09] <rick_h> ok, wasn't sure where you're at there
[19:09] <shakes808> :D
[19:09] <shakes808> gotcha
[19:09] <shakes808> It seems to be working better now
[19:09] <shakes808> :D
[19:09] <shakes808> thank you\
[19:13] <jcastro> rick_h: what post?
[19:14] <jcastro> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/ I'm on this podcast live in a few minutes to talk about juju!
[19:14] <shakes808> :( won't run, error in the code
[19:14] <shakes808> BAD SNAP
[19:14] <shakes808> BAD
[19:14] <shakes808> lol
[19:14] <rick_h> jcastro: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/04/23/stacktack/
[19:14] <brousch> shakes808: for python in eclipse, install the eclipse plugin version of aptana studio http://www.aptana.com/downloads/start
[19:15] <shakes808> thank you
[19:15] <brousch> the instructions for how to do it are on that page
[19:15] <jcastro> rick_h: ah, that's a draft, fixing, thanks!
[19:15] <brousch> then there is a little post-install setup for the pydev module in eclipse
[19:19] <snap-l> shakes808: Works here. What's the bug?
[19:20] <shakes808> says
[19:20] <shakes808> no soundcard
[19:20] <shakes808> traceback
[19:21] <shakes808> line 13
[19:21] <shakes808> of run_game.py
[19:21] <shakes808> main.main()
[19:21] <shakes808> then line 536 in main
[19:21] <shakes808> game()
[19:21] <snap-l> Do you have libsdl-sound installed?
[19:21] <shakes808> and line 342 in game
[19:21] <snap-l> You'll also need libsdl-image and libsdl-ttf
[19:21] <shakes808> pygame.mixer.music.load(musicfile)
[19:21] <shakes808> pygame.error.....
[19:21] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:21] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <shakes808> o
[19:22] <shakes808> k
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <snap-l> shakes808: OK, stop posting. :)
[19:22] <shakes808> :D
[19:23] <shakes808> So how do I find out about the libsdl-sound and the image and ttf?
[19:24] <snap-l> just type "apt-get install libsdl-sound libsdl-image libsdl-ttf2"
[19:24] <shakes808> alright
[19:25] <snap-l> sudo apt-get install libsdl-sound1.2 libsdl-image1.2 libsdl-ttf2.0-0
[19:25] <snap-l> That should give you joy.
[19:25] <shakes808> lol the one with the version numbers?
[19:25] <snap-l> yes
[19:26] <shakes808> sudo apt-get install libsdl-sound1.2 libsdl-image1.2 lidsdl-ttf2.0-0
[19:26] <shakes808> didn't work
[19:26] <shakes808> E: Unable to locate package lidsdl-ttf2.0-0 E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'lidsdl-ttf2.0-0'
[19:27] <snap-l> It's lib, not lid
[19:27] <shakes808> lol
[19:27] <shakes808> WHOOO HOOO I am awesome, thank you snap
[19:27] <snap-l> We've all been there.
[19:28] <shakes808> alright, working. Thank you
[19:28] <shakes808> Sorry for being so ignorant to the Linux world.  :D
[19:28] <shakes808> Working on not being so ;D
[19:28] <shakes808> still same error
[19:29] <shakes808> do I have to restart something?
[19:29] <snap-l> shakes808: no, you sholdn't need to restart
[19:30] <shakes808> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/649/
[19:30] <snap-l> Ah
[19:31] <snap-l> sudo apt-get install freepats
[19:31] <snap-l> (I used a midi file)
[19:32] <shakes808> alright installing
[19:32] <shakes808> going to take a long time
[19:32] <shakes808> 60 mins
[19:32] <shakes808> :(
[19:32] <shakes808> What is this?
[19:32] <brousch> geez
[19:32] <shakes808> knocked down to 30
[19:32] <shakes808> lol
[19:32] <shakes808> a little better lol
[19:33] <snap-l> It's MIDI sample files
[19:33] <snap-l> they'll take a little while to load
[19:34] <shakes808> in the mean time
[19:34] <shakes808> I will look at the code :D
[19:35] <snap-l> Don't judge me
[19:35] <shakes808> The stuff that I did was out of the book. I altered the source from the book for my own game :D I was porting it to C++ with a buddy of mine for our C++ / DirectX class
[19:35] <shakes808> Didn't finish it
[19:35] <shakes808> but got far along :D
[19:36] <shakes808> linked lists were our downfall and memory management
[19:36] <shakes808> speaking of
[19:36] <shakes808> is there a way for Python to do memory management?
[19:36] <snap-l> It does it for you
[19:37] <shakes808> When I altered the code of the game I was working on, it started to lag like no othere
[19:37] <snap-l> It uses garbage collection
[19:37] <shakes808> not very well
[19:37] <shakes808> that was another thing I had against it
[19:37] <shakes808> it didn't seem like it had a good memory management system
[19:37] <snap-l> Um, I haven't run into an issue with it
[19:37] <snap-l> you might have had a memory leak
[19:38] <snap-l> It's pretty easy to di if you're not careful
[19:38] <shakes808> I will try to find the game and bring it next week
[19:38] <snap-l> And pygame doesn't handle thousands of sprites efficiently.
[19:38] <snap-l> I wrote some sample code that bogged pretty hard.
[19:39] <brousch> yeah, a lot of sprites or movement of sprites gets ugly
[19:39] <brousch> or spinning
[19:39] <shakes808> I think I had like 8 sprites and it was having difficulties
[19:39] <shakes808> It was like Galaga / Asteroids
[19:39] <brousch> i had big slowdowns with spinning sprites
[19:39] <shakes808> They were doing that too
[19:39] <shakes808> lol
[19:39] <snap-l> shakes808: One beginner mistake I've made too is thinking you didn't need to use the timer.
[19:39] <shakes808> and randomly shooting
[19:39] <brousch> that was probably the big problem
[19:40] <snap-l> The timer is key
[19:40] <shakes808> I will have to find it
[19:46] <shakes808> FOUND IT!!!!
[19:46] <shakes808> lol
[19:48] <shakes808> How am I going to get it to you?
[19:48] <shakes808> lol
[19:48] <shakes808> just wait until tomorrow?
[19:48] <shakes808> lol
[19:49] <snap-l> Depends on how man files it is.
[19:49] <snap-l> Is it one file, or multiple files?
[19:49] <shakes808> multi
[19:49] <snap-l> Do you have dropbox?
[19:49] <shakes808> AH HA
[19:49] <shakes808> lol
[19:49] <shakes808> yes
[19:49] <shakes808> I forgot all about it lol
[19:49] <snap-l> zip it up, and put it in dropbox
[19:51] <shakes808> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/Python.zip
[19:52] <shakes808> Thank you for all of your input
[19:52] <shakes808> I actually need to get going
[19:52] <shakes808> Need to grab some food and then going to the Tiger game tonight
[19:52] <shakes808> :D
[19:52] <brousch> ah, what the crap. someone going to the next wmlug meeting sent me an email with the entire content of the email in the 3 line long subjects
[19:52] <snap-l> Um, this is several chaptesrs
[19:53] <shakes808> ?
[19:53] <snap-l> It's 12 chapters of what looks like sample code.
[19:54] <shakes808> It shouldn't be
[19:54] <shakes808> i see the pictures
[19:54] <shakes808> 2 folders
[19:54] <snap-l> You might want to check what you sent me.
[19:54] <shakes808> and other stuff
[19:55] <brousch> shakes808: thank you for giving me some hope for today's youths
[19:55] <shakes808> oh lol wrong link
[19:55] <shakes808> lol
[19:55] <shakes808> uploading the right one
[19:56] <shakes808> I saw python
[19:56] <shakes808> not final lol
[19:57] <shakes808> You can  see what was covered in the class ;)
[19:58] <shakes808> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13889126/Python/FINAL222.tar.gz
[19:58] <shakes808> Try that one out
[19:58] <shakes808> lol
[19:58] <shakes808> :D
[19:58] <snap-l> Ye gods, it's 35mb
[19:58] <shakes808> lol
[19:59] <shakes808> Alright
[19:59] <snap-l> laterness
[19:59] <shakes808> have fun making fun of my code :D
[19:59] <shakes808> I will hop back on in the A.M.
[19:59] <shakes808> You all have a good night
[20:00] <brousch> wow, i thought i went to bed early
[20:00] <shakes808> lol
[20:01] <shakes808> I need my "beauty" sleep ;) You should see how ugly I am now. Any help to change this fact is good help :D
[20:03] <brousch> python makes anyone 10% more handsome
[20:04] <snap-l> I need all the percent I can get.
[20:05] <Blazeix> look at guido, can't get much better than that
[20:05] <brousch> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2003/07/09/photos1.html?page=3
[20:05] <brousch> it's all about the hair
[20:33] <rick_h> kind of cool: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/graphs/contributors
[20:38] <widox> w00t, 5 commits!
[20:39] <brousch> hm, i don't even remember committing
[20:39] <rick_h> think it might have been a docs thing
[20:39] <brousch> damnit, now i need another one to catch up to widox
[20:39] <rick_h>     Small hosting doc changes
[20:39] <rick_h> brousch: yea, you submitted some of the hosting docs it looks like
[20:39] <rick_h> <3 git log
[20:40] <widox> brousch: nooooo
[20:40]  * brousch finds some spelling errors
[23:03] <brousch> why is there no big-ass "Report a bug" button on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ ?
[23:06] <rick_h> brousch: because you didn't pick a project to 'report a bug' against
[23:11] <brousch> i can never figure out what project my bug goes to
[23:11] <brousch> i ave a problem with a certain color theme
[23:11] <brousch> i picked kde meta
[23:12] <brousch> kubuntu meta
[23:15] <jcastro> use the automated tool
[23:15] <jcastro> we turn off web reporting because most bugs submitted have 0 detail that you need to fix a bug
[23:16] <jcastro> do "ubuntu-bug -w", and then click on the window of the app you want to report the bug to
[23:18] <brousch> nice feature, but this particular thing is not a proper window. i can't click it with that tool
[23:19] <brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/988612
[23:20] <jcastro> brousch: on ask ubuntu ask "What package provides the wifi widget in Oxygen?"
[23:20] <jcastro> that should get you the package name you need
[23:22] <brousch> heh
[23:28] <greg-g> so, about that actual work I was supposed to do today?
[23:28] <greg-g> planning two trips took longer than it should
[23:30] <rick_h> greg-g: side day


[00:33] <RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, Heya!! can I be added to u-u-s please?? Thanks my LP is on the PM
[00:39] <TheMuso> RoAkSoAx: Done, sorry I missed your message in here.
[00:39] <RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, no prob :)
[00:39] <RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, thanks :)
[00:39] <TheMuso> np
[00:40] <MaximLevitsky> Folks I have a problem
[00:40] <MaximLevitsky> There is a library called libmms
[00:40] <MaximLevitsky> It is now hosted on launchpad
[00:40] <MaximLevitsky> But seems to be abadoned
[00:41] <MaximLevitsky> But it is a gatekeeper on all mediaplayer live streams
[00:41] <MaximLevitsky> I have now fixed two bugs in it
[00:42] <MaximLevitsky> Original maintainer seems to abadon it, as there are many bugreports, and last activety on 2008
[00:43] <MaximLevitsky> soren: you are here?
[02:03] <zooko> geser: I didn't test that it builds on Ubuntu before opening the bug report.
[02:03] <zooko> Folks: my brother is trying to set up the minimal operating system which can run a Xen hypervisor.  He seems to think that Debian is better than Ubuntu for the goal of minimalness.  Are there some new features in Karmic that would appeal to him?
[02:04] <lifeless> polish?
[02:04] <lifeless> and its been released this year :P
[02:04] <virtuald> newer kernel with much improved disk io or maybe that's just kvm
[02:05] <zooko> :-)
[02:05] <virtuald> (which is what i'll use)
[02:05] <zooko> What about JEOS?
[02:06] <virtuald> i know nothing about that
[02:07] <lifeless> zooko: its great for setting up vms
[02:07] <lifeless> zooko: doesn't mean much w.r.t. hypervisor AFAIK; unless you get a xen JEOS image put together, of course ;)
[02:07] <virtuald> is it just supposed to be a guest os?
[02:08] <lifeless> it lets folk put together very targeted demos
[02:08] <lifeless> like 'heres my CMS'
[02:09] <virtuald> aha
[02:09] <lifeless> on a vm, with whatever database etc etc you need - such things can be complex to install
[02:09] <lifeless> like, some systems you need 3-4 hosts just to run sensibly, you can put together 3 vm's all preconfigured and say 'here, GO'
[02:09] <virtuald> does it use libvirt?
[02:10] <lifeless> don't think so, its still Ubuntu
[02:10] <lifeless> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos
[02:12] <lifeless> just less of it
[02:49] <ScottK> YokoZar: I just rejected wine-icons out of new based on our discussion this morning.  If that was wrong, let me know.
[06:00] <ripps> How do I package an application to be selectable as the one of the default multimedia apps in Preferred Applications?
[06:19] <RAOF> ripps: Looking at Banshee I suspect the answer is to have a suitable mime-type in the .desktop file.
[06:20] <RAOF> ripps: Specifically, I suspect the related line to be "MimeType=x-content/audio-player", found in /usr/share/applications/banshee-1-media-player.desktop
[06:44] <dholbach> good morning
[07:25] <highvoltage> good morning
[11:48] <slytherin> When requesting for sync from Debian, is it necessary that the size of .orig.tar.gz be same?
[11:48] <Laney> it needs to be md5sum identical
[11:48] <Laney> otherwise you should fakesync
[11:49] <Laney> slytherin: ^
[11:49] <slytherin> Laney: and md5sum are not same for repacked .orig.tar.gz files, right?
[11:49] <Laney> if ubuntu and debian uploaded independently, not generally
[11:49] <Laney> (not without special measures)
[11:50] <slytherin> And what is fakesync?
[11:51] <Laney> uploading a debian package just with a new changlog entry
[11:51] <Laney> a no-change merge, basically
[11:52] <slytherin> Laney: But then I will also need to get .orig.tar.gz from Debian, right? Is it allowed to reupload .orig.tar.gz?
[11:52] <Laney> no, the point is to use Debian's .diff.gz with Ubuntu's different orig.tar.gz
[11:53] <slytherin> hmm
[15:17] <doko_> ScottK: just read http://sourceware.org/ml/gdb/2009-10/msg00007.html
[16:01] <wrapster> where can i get a comprehensive doc for understanding/using all the debhelper scripts? man pages are not that good
[16:02] <wrapster> is there an online doc/pdf by any chance
[16:21] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:28] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[16:31] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
[17:00] <zooko> Happy GNU Mailman Announcement Day, everyone!
[17:21] <fale> hi
[17:21] <RainCT> Hi fale
[17:36] <joaopinto> Pici, couuld you provide a short description with the requirements for https://edge.launchpad.net/bantrackertwo ?
[18:29] <Pici> joaopinto: Its not really -motu related, but I'll answer here and if you have any other questions feel free to join #ubuntu-irc. Two applications. One is an IRC bot (preferably supybot) plugin that watches a set of IRC channels for activity and records events such as kicks, bans, mutes, etc.  The second part is the web based counterpart for viewing these events, and making comments on them. Additionally there needs to be some ...
[18:29] <Pici> ... sort of issue tracking for things that aren't tied to a specific event.
[18:30] <joaopinto> ok
[18:44] <RoAkSoAx> hey guys, we should remove the copying config.{guess,sub} from the clean target, right? But, should we remove it completely and do nothing else or should we move it to the config.status target and add a clean target to remove config.{guess,sub}
[19:06] <fabrice_sp_> RoAkSoAx, I was going to update Bug #382539, recomending a sync/merge from debian, and saying that we are pas FF. Do you agree?
[19:07] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp_, sure feel free to do so :)
[19:07] <RoAkSoAx> thanks
[19:07] <fabrice_sp_> thanks ;-)
[20:06] <ScottK> doko_: Thanks.
[20:48] <AnAnt> Hello, do I need to file FFe for a new branding package ?
[20:48] <AnAnt> it's an xsplash theme
[23:22] <ScottK> If he comes back, tell him he does, but it should be easy to get approved.
[23:43] <irvingpop> MOTU Team,  quick postinst / postrm question
[23:44]  * irvingpop 1.   I'm fine tuning my postrm script,  but I keep getting this when removing the package:   update-rc.d: /etc/init.d/flashcam exists during rc.d purge (use -f to force)
[23:44]  * irvingpop dpkg: error processing flashcam (--remove):
[23:44]  * irvingpop  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1
[23:45] <irvingpop> Is it normal for the /etc/init.d/$service file to hang around after removal,  or is there a way to tidy it up?
[23:50] <irvingpop> NM, I think I got it


[01:04] <ddaa> mtaylor: you can file a question on launchpad to request an admin to remove stuff from your ppa
[01:04] <mtaylor> ddaa: thanks
[01:05] <ddaa> in the future you'll be able to delete stuff yourself, but not right now
[01:05] <Hobbsee> ddaa: any real ETA on when?
[01:05] <ddaa> I'm not the right person to ask :)
[01:05] <Hobbsee> ddaa: you're a launchpad guy. you should know.
[01:06] <ddaa> I do not keep track of what every other team does.
[01:07]  * Fujitsu points at 1.2.1.
[01:07] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, is that the real date?
[01:07]  * Hobbsee wonders if it's possible to see how many times a spec has been retargeted
[01:07] <Fujitsu> Assuming it won't be deferred, but they are getting much better at setting realistic targets.
[01:07] <ddaa> glad you appreciate that
[01:08] <ddaa> we've expended a lot of effort on our release management
[01:08] <Hobbsee> glad to hear it
[01:08] <Fujitsu> I was pleased to see that most of the bugs that I was watching on 1.1.12 were in fact done in 1.1.12, unlike previous releases :)
[01:54] <wasabi> Heh. Topic answers my question I guess.
[01:54] <wasabi> How long until the buildds work again?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> until they're fixed.
[06:10] <kooltk3> hello
[07:40] <ubotu> New bug: #179026 in launchpad "karma go down with any reason..." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179026
[07:40] <Hobbsee> "time"
[07:41]  * Hobbsee hits it with the invalid stick
[07:44] <Fujitsu> Thankyou.
[07:50] <ubotu> New bug: #179028 in soyuz "+files doesn't work for removed SPRs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179028
[08:56] <ubotu> New bug: #179035 in launchpad-bazaar "show old format branhces with a ! marker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179035
[12:20] <afflux> I'm trying to export translation for my project (gdecrypt) but I don't get the mails. Is that a problem with my mailserver or is it a delay from LP?
[12:20] <Fujitsu> afflux: See the second part of /topic.
[12:20] <afflux> oh, sorry :)
[12:20] <afflux> <- blind :P
[12:21] <Wander_w> If I make suggestions for translations, when do they show up in the shipped version of that program?
[12:22] <Fujitsu> Wander_w: After the official translators accept them, and after they are included in a shipped version of the program.
[12:23] <Wander_w> ah ok
[12:23] <Wander_w> Do you perhaps know what the average response time from the official translators is?
[12:24] <Wander_w> Or what it should be?
[12:25] <afflux> Wander_w: I think that depends. Is it a translation in ubuntu or is it an upstream project?
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Wander_w: It depends on when the official translators do it. They're designated per-project, so there won't be any kind of valid average.
[12:25] <Wander_w> I'm making suggestions for Pidgin in Launchpas for the Dutch language
[12:25] <Wander_w> *Launchpad
[12:27] <afflux> Wander_w: that seems to be in the ubuntu package
[12:27] <Wander_w> It says the owner of that project (Pidgin) is "Launchpad Translations Administrators"
[12:27] <afflux> Wander_w: they will appear in the hardy release in april.
[12:27] <Wander_w> cool!
[12:27] <Wander_w> but..
[12:27] <Fujitsu> Wander_w: Which version are you translating for?
[12:27] <Wander_w> don't I have to do the translations in the gutsy version then?
[12:27] <Fujitsu> Language pack updates are released regularly for older releases.
[12:28] <Wander_w> uhm.. I'm translating for the Gutsy release
[12:28] <Wander_w> Should I translate for the Hardy release?
[12:28] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure about that.
[12:29] <cprov> Fujitsu: hi
[12:29]  * Fujitsu isn't a translations person.
[12:29] <Fujitsu> Evening, cprov.
[12:29] <Wander_w> cprov seems like he/she's from canonical, maybe he know wether I should translate for Hardy or Gutsy
[12:31]  * Fujitsu waits...
[12:31] <Fujitsu> Aw, ``Cube didn't make his usual request.
[12:34] <cprov> Fujitsu: elmo is working on the chroot problem
[12:34] <Fujitsu> cprov: So I saw.
[12:37] <``Cube> UH
[12:37] <``Cube> sorry
[12:37] <``Cube> 4500 people were writing me
[12:37] <``Cube> Fujitsu: what's up?
[12:37] <``Cube> ah :D:D:D
[12:38] <``Cube> heheh lol ;);) yea, I didn't ask about a project in need for an icon hehe :P
[12:41] <ubotu> New bug: #179055 in malone "GForge bug URLS are misinterpreted as SourceForge bug URLS (dup-of: 98767)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179055
[12:41] <Fujitsu> That's the second dupe of that I've seen today.
[16:14] <Pres-Gas> Hello, is there a way to re-open questions?
[16:18] <qense> hello
[16:18] <``Cube> 'lo
[16:18] <qense> I've got two suggestions for launchpad, but I don't know where to tell them, is this the appropiate place for that>
[16:18] <qense> s/>/?
[16:24] <``Cube> sure
[16:25] <qense> ok,
[16:26] <qense> since not all projects have a wiki like Ubuntu, or want a seperate documentation for their developers I think it would be great if Launchpad would give projects the possibility to document their standards, apis and more
[16:26] <qense> maybe something like the wiki that's used as help for Launchpad
[16:29] <qense> and maybe a discussion forum/whiteboard thing to exchange project ideas would be great too
[16:59] <``Cube> oops
[16:59] <``Cube> my mistake sorry
[16:59] <``Cube> changed it back to the original one
[17:34] <wasabi> Was that build problem fixed with the ppas?
[17:34] <wasabi> looks like it's out of the topic.
[22:56] <chx> I just would like to congrats for your cvs import script. The same repo crashes cvsps and sends cvs2svn into an infinite loop.
[23:21] <jelmer> ~.


[03:33] <mup> PR snapd#11044 opened: interfaces/builtin/block_devices: allow blkid to print block device attributes <Created by woodrow-shen> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11044>
[14:26] <mup> PR snapd#11045 opened: interfaces/builtin/opengl.go: add boot_vga sys/devices file <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11045>
[16:45] <miguelpires> mvo: can you merge this https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10992 please?
[16:45] <mup> PR #10992: cmd: create ~/snap dir with 0700 perms <Needs Samuele review> <Created by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/10992>
[18:27] <mup> PR snapd#11047 opened: tests: new tool used to retrieve data from mongo db <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11047>


[05:02] !alindeman:*! "We're experiencing turbulance. Please fasten your seatbelts"  Uh, looks like an mrs server is having some problems.  We're working on mitigating further repurcusion.  Sorry for any inconvenience, and thanks for flying Freenode
[05:02] !alindeman:*! Repurcusions*
[05:23] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>merge in Tez Kamihira's gettext work, tweaked for better modularity and debian layout (patch-3)
[05:37] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>merge in Tez Kamihira's gettext work, diff correctness & nuking of changes, and new command tree-id (patch-28)
[06:24] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>package update to support Tez Kamihira's gettext patch (patch-2)


[00:25] <cjwatson> arayaq: That's similar to bug 1273487 - not the same symptom, but more or less the same cause.  I believe I've fixed this in launchpad-buildd now, so it should be sorted out at the next rollout, which I'm planning to organise later this week.
[00:25] <cjwatson> Thanks for the report.
[00:26] <arayaq> cjwatson: Thank you, so I cant build until the fix is rolled or is something I can do on my side to make it build?
[00:26] <cjwatson> arayaq: If it's urgent to work around it, then temporarily removing the diacritic from your display name on Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/~/+edit) should sort it out, though I fully understand if that's an unpalatable answer.
[00:27] <cjwatson> i.e. "Angel Araya" rather than "Ángel Araya"
[00:27] <cjwatson> Obviously it's unacceptable for us to restrict to ASCII-only displaynames though.
[00:27] <arayaq> cjwatson: I see! I'll go with the work around for now and revert back when the fix is out
[00:27] <arayaq> cjwatson: Thanks a lot!
[00:28] <cjwatson> You can subscribe to the bug above to be notified when it's fixed (it'll flip to Fix Released)
[00:35] <wgrant> Hm, I think that's rather a separate bzr-builder bug.
[00:35] <wgrant> aOh no
[00:35] <wgrant> Missed the enc arg, cjwatson's right.
[00:36] <cjwatson> Yeah, I tried out the failing bits of code in both environment-with-no-locale and environment-with-LANG=C.UTF-8
[00:36] <cjwatson> It goes back to the question of whether we should just set LANG=C.UTF-8 across the board, but this will do for now
[07:41] <jtaylor> is recipe building broken? I get an bzr error about quilt not being installed
[07:41] <jtaylor> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/180940457/buildlog.txt.gz
[07:48] <wgrant> jtaylor: Not all recipes, just those that are forced by bzr-builder from 3.0 (quilt) to 3.0 (native).
[07:48] <wgrant> But yes, it seems our new virtual builders don't have quilt installed. I'll get that fixed in a few hours, hopefully.
[08:53] <arun_> hi guys !!!
[08:53] <arun_> I needed a help in Launchpad.net please help me out
[08:57] <ersi> I might not be able to help at all, but what is the problem you're having? (It's usually better to ask the question you came to ask about, instead of asking if anyone can help)
[08:59] <mapreri> !ask
[08:59] <mapreri> :)
[09:01] <arun_> ersi: I was wanting to get bugtracker enabled in launchpad
[13:53] <mark06> can anyone help with https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/249542 ? it simply can't be done? not even rm, or sql delete, or whatever?
[13:54] <mark06> look at what kind of thing it forces me to write: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/pidgin++/trunk/view/head:/build/translations.sh :(
[14:01] <dobey> i really don't understand what you're complaining about
[14:02] <dobey> the filenames are not wrong
[14:20] <mark06> it's not the original po file
[14:21] <mark06> thus, the program doesn't know about this new translation, since it relies on the language code for some things
[14:21] <dobey> well, the original po files are allowed to be wrong
[14:21] <mark06> I need to run the script above on every merge
[14:21] <mark06> why allowed?
[14:22] <dobey> because you seem to be assserting that they are correct as if they are not allowed to be wrong, because they are pre-existing
[14:22] <mark06> hmm the Language: header?
[14:22] <dobey> why do you have ms_MY.po instead of ms.po?
[14:23] <mark06> I have no idea, only pidgin developers know
[14:23] <mark06> btw the Language header is ms for ms_MY but not my for my_MM, still LP exports to my.po, so that won't fix it
[14:25] <dobey> launchpad does not use the region specifier for po files unless it's absolutely necessary to do so
[14:25] <dobey> iow, there's no good reason to have ms_MY instead of just ms
[14:25] <dobey> and same with my_MM instead of my
[14:25] <mark06> ok so you're still into 'everything is just ok'?
[14:26] <mark06> I'm not asking tyo rename default name, if that thing ever exists, that would just move the problem to someone else
[14:26] <dobey> i'm saying that because pidgin is doing it wrong, and you're forking pidgin, blaming launchpad for being not pidgin isn't exactly a helpful solution
[14:26] <mark06> I'm asking to export foo.po to foo.po not bar.po, why ignore foo.po's name and use bar.po instead?
[14:29] <beaumanvienna> I've uploaded software to my launchpad PPA, but it doesn't show up on my profile. How can I see a build log?
[14:30] <cjohnston> beaumanvienna: how long ago did you upload? Did you get an accepted email?
[14:30] <beaumanvienna> I did check my mail. wait
[14:30] <mark06> beaumanvienna: "View package details" on the top right corner of your ppa page
[14:31] <cjohnston> beaumanvienna: depending on how long ago, it may be either pending or building..
[14:32] <cjwatson> beaumanvienna: Make sure you signed the upload.  Launchpad only sends any kind of reply to signed uploads, so if you forgot to sign it with a key that you have registered in Launchpad, you won't hear anything back.
[14:33] <beaumanvienna> I do have message from launchpad. It says Rejected: Unable to find distroseries: experimental
[14:34] <beaumanvienna> I signed it
[14:35] <dobey> you can only build for ubuntu distro series
[14:36] <mark06> beaumanvienna: where's your code?
[14:36] <dobey> so you need to specify utopic, trusty, etc… not the debian series names
[14:38] <beaumanvienna> Ahh, I get it. So http://slexy.org/view/s2Qk44cWD6 ?
[14:39] <mark06> beaumanvienna: yay :)
[14:39] <beaumanvienna> I have uploaded my code with dpit
[14:39] <beaumanvienna> I have uploaded my code with dput
[14:50] <beaumanvienna> I changed the entry in changelog to trusty, now it says: Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net
[14:50] <cjohnston> probably need to bump the version number IIRC
[14:51] <beaumanvienna> I give it a try..
[15:00] <beaumanvienna> Upload successful, but in the mail: Rejected File mednafen_<IP_ADDRESS>.orig.tar.bz2 already exists in Primary Archive for Ubuntu, but uploaded version has different contents.
[15:03] <cjwatson> You aren't allowed to change a file with a given filename once it's been uploaded to a given archive.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Why did you change it?
[15:03] <mark06> beaumanvienna: can you simply delete the ppa? that would fix it
[15:03] <cjwatson> No
[15:03] <cjwatson> It's complaining about a mismatch with the version in the primary archive
[15:03] <mark06> cjwatson: he changed because of the above, the series
[15:04] <cjwatson> So rather than constructing that file however you did it, grab the version from the primary archive and build your source package against that
[15:04] <cjwatson> mark06: That doesn't require changing the .orig, and in any case this warning is about a mismatch with the primary archive, so deleting the PPA won't help
[15:04] <beaumanvienna> You mean by patching it?
[15:04] <cjwatson> No, I mean by fetching that file from the source package in Ubuntu
[15:05] <cjwatson> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/m/mednafen/mednafen_<IP_ADDRESS>.orig.tar.bz2
[15:05] <beaumanvienna> I think so too, but where can I find the original? The latest version in Ubuntu is in Utopia with 0.9.33, not <IP_ADDRESS>
[15:05] <mark06> cjwatson: why does it complain that the "Primary Archive" already has that version, no idea what's that
[15:05] <cjwatson> Launchpad won't allow you to build a PPA for Ubuntu with file names that conflict with Ubuntu proper
[15:05] <cjwatson> beaumanvienna: I just gave you the URL, which is in utopic-proposed at the moment.
[15:06] <mark06> cjwatson: I thought when you changed origs... it didn't try to overwrite them in the upstream repos???
[15:06] <cjwatson> mark06: Because it does, as I pointed to above.
[15:06] <beaumanvienna> Thanks!! So I can patch my version against it?
[15:06] <cjwatson> beaumanvienna: Just replace the version of that file in the parent directory of your unpacked source package with the one from Ubuntu, and rebuild the source package.
[15:07] <cjwatson> mark06: It won't try to overwrite the version in Ubuntu, but nevertheless having conflicting files of the very same name in an Ubuntu PPA and in Ubuntu itself would be very confusing, and possibly break some specialised use cases, so it's not allowed.
[15:07] <mark06> cjwatson: ah I see... it's odd that it didn't grab the latest version though
[15:07] <cjwatson> "it"?
[15:08] <mark06> it, when it fetched the source package then patched it for creating this new patched package
[15:08] <mark06> *when they
[15:08] <cjwatson> mark06: beaumanvienna constructed the source package
[15:08] <cjwatson> There's nothing automatic going on there
[15:08] <mark06> this is not from scratch
[15:09] <cjwatson> http://slexy.org/view/s2Qk44cWD6 implies it's from scratch
[15:09] <cjwatson> That
[15:09] <mark06> source (orig) has been fetched and only the diff is being uploaded, no?
[15:09] <cjwatson> 's not a changelog that would suggest that it's a modification of an existing package.
[15:09] <beaumanvienna> actualy it's not. It's just my first src code so I tried to keep things simple, sorry
[15:10] <cjwatson> mark06: All previous uploads were rejected for other reasons.
[15:10] <cjwatson> There was no need to bump the version number to avoid the "Package has already been uploaded" warning.  dput -f or removing the .upload file locally would have taken care of that, since Launchpad rejected the upload.
[15:10] <mark06> beaumanvienna: are you creating the package from scratch or did you download the source package then changed it?
[15:10] <beaumanvienna> OK guys, thanks for the moment, I will think about all this and figure it out!! Bye
[15:10] <cjwatson> As such, Launchpad didn't keep a record of the files there.  This new upload is effectively an attempt to upload it from scratch.
[15:11] <mark06> cjwatson: I'd assume that's just the top of the changelog
[15:11] <cjwatson> mark06: I wouldn't, given how it says "Initial release"!
[15:11] <cjwatson> Normally it's very badly misguided to repackage something from scratch, but lots of people do it.
[15:12] <beaumanvienna> My bad, I was going to include a complete changelog, but I tried to keep things simple
[15:12] <cjwatson> What would be simplest would be copying the perfectly good package that already exists :)
[15:13] <cjwatson> And not reusing a version number that's already been used in Debian
[15:14] <beaumanvienna> Ok, wait guys. The actual number I made my changes on is <IP_ADDRESS>. So how do call my package with my changes then?
[15:15] <cjwatson> That's an upstream version number.  Surely you reused the existing packaging rather than doing it from scratch?
[15:17] <cjwatson> In which case you'd want to base on the version number of that packaging, and then follow https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#versioning
[15:22] <beaumanvienna> Got it. I must name it 'mednafen_<IP_ADDRESS>-ppa1', right?
[15:22] <beaumanvienna> I'll give this a try.
[15:30] <cjwatson> beaumanvienna: No, that doesn't look right.  What version of the existing packaging are you basing your work on?
[15:34] <beaumanvienna> It is based on version <IP_ADDRESS>, I forked it on github, see https://github.com/beaumanvienna/mednafen-git
[15:35] <cjwatson> That's upstream, not packaging.
[15:35] <mark06> then you created the debian dir from scratch?
[15:35] <cjwatson> You shouldn't do your packaging from scratch - you should base it on the existing packaging in Ubuntu
[15:35] <cjwatson> Otherwise it's a total waste of time
[15:35] <cjwatson> "pull-lp-source mednafen" will fetch the latest
[15:35] <cjwatson> (but note, that will probably overwrite your current one, so do that in a scratch directory)
[15:36] <beaumanvienna> ok got your meaning. I'll try it. I took the latest version I found in Ubuntu, which is 0.9.33 in Utopic and changed it to my needs.
[15:36] <cjwatson> That's not the latest version in Ubuntu.
[15:37] <cjwatson> The latest version in Ubuntu is <IP_ADDRESS>-2, as reported by rmadison / visible on Launchpad.
[15:37] <cjwatson> (It hasn't built yet, but that's due to an incompatibility with the latest libtrio, I think.)
[15:38] <mark06> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mednafen
[15:38] <mark06> 36 is under proposed, 33 under release
[15:39] <mark06> that's the 'channel' and proposed is for testing, right?
[15:39] <cjwatson> Right, that's because <IP_ADDRESS>-2 hasn't been able to build in utopic yet; but given that it's an incompatibility with the latest libtrio packaging, probably caused by libtrio converting to multiarch in utopic, it should build fine in trusty.
[15:39] <cjwatson> channel> misleading
[15:40] <cjwatson> -proposed is part of our continuous integration system, essentially, so we don't put things into utopic until they've built and passed certain tests
[15:40] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
[15:40] <mark06> beaumanvienna: whenever you want to patch something that already exists in ubuntu, it's *highly recommended* (not exactly required) that you patch the ubuntu package, instead of trying to re-package from scratch
[15:40] <cjwatson> however, if you just want the latest source code, fetch the latest rather than worrying about whether it's in -proposed or not
[15:40] <cjwatson> especially if the alternative is doing it from scratch!
[15:40] <cjwatson> if you then need to modify it further, then <IP_ADDRESS>-2ppa1 would normally be a sensible version number to use
[15:40] <beaumanvienna> Wait, wait.
[15:41] <mark06> beaumanvienna: this is because someone else already did all the hard work for integrating that piece of software into ubuntu (the patches), and already has applied important security fixes and is going to maintain these *for you*
[15:42] <mark06> hmm channel is universe, multiverse, main etc right?
[15:43] <mark06> dobey: I've reported bug 1349885, but thanks anyway :)
[15:44] <beaumanvienna> I would like to branch from version <IP_ADDRESS>. Why do I have to branch from the latest version?
[15:44] <beaumanvienna> In the project I work with we have my custom made version for some weeks in deployment, it's perfect, no need to take the latest source
[15:45] <mark06> beaumanvienna: because of what I said above, you have to choose between that (which is currently available only for 33) or doing that *yourself*....
[15:46] <beaumanvienna> OK, I'll do it by myself! Thanks!
[15:47] <mark06> omg!
[15:47] <mark06> will they guess http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/mednafen/utopic/files/head:/debian/patches/
[15:53] <bennabiy> Is anyone else suddenly experiencing failed builds, as of yesterday?
[15:53] <bennabiy> because of missing quilt dependency?
[15:56] <cjohnston> bennabiy: it should be either already fixed or inprogress. cjwatson ^
[15:57] <bennabiy> thank you
[15:58] <cjwatson> Right, William was working on that with IS
[15:58] <cjwatson> This is just for a subset of recipe builds
[15:58] <cjwatson> bennabiy: Do you have a recent failed build?
[15:58] <bennabiy> let me check
[15:58] <bennabiy> I did as of last night
[15:58] <cjwatson> Recent> last couple of hours
[16:00] <bennabiy> let me try again
[16:02] <bennabiy> failed.. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/180992994/buildlog.txt.gz
[16:16] <cjwatson> bennabiy: OK, so we've landed the patch to fix this, I think we're just waiting for a cronned update of the base image now
[16:17] <bennabiy> ok
[16:17] <cjwatson> bennabiy: this system is so brand new I don't know the frequency yet
[16:18] <cjwatson> literally a complete replacement of the virtual builder infrastructure
[16:38] <bennabiy> Can you let me know when to try again?
[16:41] <cjwatson> bennabiy: Yep, hang around here
[17:04] <bennabiy> will do
[17:09] <shadeslayer> idk what you guys did, but Launchad now builds firefox in ~2 hours, and I'm extremely happy about that :D
[17:18] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: is that in a virtual PPA?
[17:19] <cjwatson> Yep, looks like it
[17:19] <cjwatson> That'll be scalingstack :)
[17:23] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: virtual PPA?
[17:24] <shadeslayer> I'm assuming all PPA's are Virtual
[17:24] <shadeslayer> https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/ubuntu/firefox is the one I was talking about
[17:24] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: no, some special ones are "devirtualised" and build on the distro farm, but anyway, yeah, I found it, this is virtualised
[17:24] <shadeslayer> but quite happy that I don't have to wait 8 hours for a build :D
[17:24] <cjwatson> and I mostly meant PPA rather than an upload to Ubuntu
[17:24] <shadeslayer> right
[17:25] <cjwatson> right, so we (i.e. mostly not me) finally deployed the new replacement for the virtualised builder infrastructure that's been in development for a year or two
[17:25] <cjwatson> openstack-based, trusty base system, possibly more disk/ram per guest into the bargain
[17:26] <cjwatson> appears to not have guests fall over every five minutes
[17:26] <cjwatson> which is nice
[17:26] <shadeslayer> so the builders aren't running warty anymore? :D
[17:26] <cjwatson> hardy, but yeah
[17:26] <shadeslayer> ah, heh :P
[17:26] <shadeslayer> sweet
[17:29] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: in your case I suspect it's just extra RAM or something making a difference; don't know the exact specs involved ...
[17:29] <cjwatson> bennabiy: can you retry now?
[17:29] <shadeslayer> ok, whatever it was, it was awesome ^_^
[17:29] <bennabiy> sure.
[17:30] <bennabiy> running...
[17:30] <cjwatson> yep, I see it
[17:30] <bennabiy> Seems like my build is starting quicker, but is that just because of the switchover?
[17:30] <cjwatson> Pretty much, we have better capacity now it seems
[17:31] <cjwatson> Roughly the same number of builders, but they fail less often and apparently they're quicker in some cases, so I haven't seen any backlog since we switched
[17:31] <bennabiy> failed https://launchpadlibrarian.net/181000140/buildlog.txt.gz
[17:31] <cjwatson> hm, I'll get back to the sysadmin who was helping me
[17:31] <bennabiy> ok thank you :)
[17:32] <bennabiy> I will stick around to try again
[17:32] <bennabiy> just alert me by name :)
[17:32] <cjwatson> yeah, just don't want to push you over your daily recipe build limit unnecessarily
[17:38] <sergio-br2> hey
[17:39] <sergio-br2> can i use # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}-0~{revdate} ?
[17:41] <dobey> sergio-br2: i don't see why not, though personally i've started avoiding having - in the version string in recipes
[17:42] <sergio-br2> dobey, why?
[17:43] <cjwatson> bennabiy: try now
[17:43] <bennabiy> ok
[17:43] <cjwatson> (glitch in the upgrade procedure)
[17:43] <dobey> sergio-br2: for a while lp was more strict because newer dpkg was being more strict, and since recipe builds amount to being native packages in the eyes of dpkg, it made sense to not have -
[17:44] <bennabiy> one thing that would be nice to have is an auto refreshed page so I do not need to keep refreshing the page to see my build progress
[17:44] <dobey> sergio-br2: so i just use {debupstream}+r{revno} generally, for actually native packages, and tack on a ~{revno:packaging} if it's something i have to nest a separate packaging branch into
[17:45] <sergio-br2> this revno gets the bzr commits?
[17:46] <cjwatson> bennabiy: yeah, I'd like to hook that up for builds, but enotime, and the auto-refresh mechanism in LP has some limits at the moment anyway ...
[17:46] <dobey> sergio-br2: yes, it's the value of "bzr revno" against the branch
[17:46] <bennabiy> fair enough
[17:46] <cjwatson> bennabiy: there you go, success
[17:46] <bennabiy> yes
[17:46] <bennabiy> thank you
[17:47] <bennabiy> I have thought about building my own launchpad / builder just for local stuff, but have yet to do it
[17:48] <dobey> setting up sbuild to build locally is pretty easy
[17:48] <bennabiy> I need something local, as I have projects that are not public domain, which I would not want to host on launchpad
[17:50] <cjwatson> sbuild is local
[17:50] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
[17:53] <sergio-br2> dobey, so it's not good to use revdate to iterate the version? I remember that i got an error with this thing
[17:54] <dobey> sergio-br2: you can use a date if you want, but i don't know what error you got or what revdate means exactly
[17:54] <dobey> sergio-br2: i prefer the revno, because it's a more accurate description of what you're building
[17:55] <dobey> sergio-br2: the date doesn't really tell you which revision the build was from, as more revisions could have landed after the build, on that date
[17:55] <sergio-br2> the thing is that i imported a code from github, then i don't know if it make sense using the bzr number to iterate
[17:55] <sergio-br2> humm, right
[17:56] <sergio-br2> it makes sense
[17:56] <dobey> sergio-br2: the bzr revno still makes sense, because you can track it to the specific revision in bzr, and then track that to the specific revision in git
[17:56] <dobey> it only breaks if upstraem does something stupid and deletes existing revisions in the master branch
[17:56] <dobey> (which, sadly, some people actually do quite often)
[17:57] <sergio-br2> ok
[17:57] <sergio-br2> so deb-version {debupstream}-0~{revno} is good
[17:58] <dobey> i would do {debupstream}+r{revno}
[17:58] <sergio-br2> why in the end the package got a .1 in the name? like 0.9.9.git.20140727.1~ubuntu14.10.1
[17:59] <cjwatson> hardcoded in launchpad-buildd for some reason I meant to track down but was sort of scared of changing in case it broke things
[17:59] <sergio-br2> this .1 is not used for iterate
[17:59] <dobey> the -0 doesn't tell you anything useful, and if the debupstream is the same version as already in ubuntu, the package will appear older than what's in ubuntu, even if it's newer
[17:59] <cjwatson> I think it's a bug, but it doesn't really matter
[17:59] <dobey> yeah i wouldn't worry about that. lp appends the series to all recipe builds automatically
[17:59] <sergio-br2> it's annoying me :p
[18:00] <dobey> find a new annoyance :)
[18:00] <dobey> or just build it for trusty, then the .1 will "mean" something ;)
[18:01] <sergio-br2> rsrs
[18:04] <yofel> Big thanks to everyone that worked on the build buildds, they're amazing! :D
[18:04] <yofel> *new buildds
[18:05] <cjwatson> I've passed it on :)
[18:25] <sergio-br2> i got this error: http://pastebin.com/6BxQqQbQ
[18:27] <cjwatson> Please always link to the build on LP rather than pastebinning its log
[18:28] <cjwatson> https://code.launchpad.net/~libretro/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+recipebuild/763395 apparently
[18:28] <cjwatson> sergio-br2: Your recipe doesn't include any branch that contains any packaging.
[18:33] <sergio-br2> {debupstream}+r{revno:Genesis-Plus-GX}  ?
[18:33] <sergio-br2> the code is https://code.launchpad.net/~libretro/libretro/Genesis-Plus-GX
[18:35] <sergio-br2> "Replaced by the revision number of the branch you specify, using the short name specified elsewhere in the recipe."
[18:35] <sergio-br2> so id is Genesis-Plus-GX?
[18:37] <sergio-br2> cjwatson, why i need to specific branch? This is in the recipe too:  lp:~libretro/libretro/Genesis-Plus-GX
[18:38] <dobey> sergio-br2: what you need is a debian/ directory
[18:39] <dobey> sergio-br2: it can either be in the upstream branch, or you can create a new branch with its contents, and nest it in the recipe
[18:40] <sergio-br2> ahh, i completely forgot that debian/ is inside libretro/
[18:41] <sergio-br2> stupid me
[18:54] <sergio-br2> what's the difference between nest and merge?
[18:56] <dobey> nest grabs the branch in a subdir, merge is a merge (same as bzr merge otherbranch)
[18:57] <dobey> i find just having the contents of debian/ in a branch and nesting it is easier to deal with, for recipes that are building upstream branches which don't have a debian/ dir
[19:00] <sergio-br2> so, i need to have only the debian/ folder in a branch?
[19:02] <dobey> sergio-br2: can you see https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/+recipe/ardour-dailies ?
[19:04] <dobey> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dobey/ardour/packaging-dailies/files for example, is nested with "nest packaging lp:~dobey/ardour/packaging-dailies debian" in the recipe
[19:05] <sergio-br2> great
[19:05] <sergio-br2> good example
[19:07] <sergio-br2> in "nest packaging ..." , this packaging is a reference to {revno:packaging} ?
[19:08] <sergio-br2> ah, it's a a short name
[19:09] <dobey> it's the symbolic name, which is referenced in the veresion string variable, yes :)
[19:10] <sergio-br2> but i need to use this?
[19:10] <sergio-br2> hum, it's good to know what revision in the package, right?
[19:16] <dobey> yes, it's good to know what revision of the packaging you are using, if it is a separate branch from the upstream branch
[19:17] <sergio-br2> in my case
[19:17] <sergio-br2> # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}+r{revno}.{revno:packaging}
[19:17] <sergio-br2> lp:~libretro/libretro/Genesis-Plus-GX
[19:17] <sergio-br2> nest packaging lp:~libretro/libretro/Genesis-Plus-GX-debian debian
[19:17] <dobey> if someone complains about a packaging issue, you can use the version number of the package they have installed to cross reference it with the branch and see what changed or needs changing
[19:17] <sergio-br2> this should work?
[19:17] <dobey> it will work, but i would use ~ instead of . there
[19:18] <sergio-br2> {debupstream}+r{revno}~{revno:packaging}
[19:18] <dobey> right, that's what i use in my recipes
[19:19] <sergio-br2> great
[19:20] <sergio-br2> ok, it will be good to automate retroarch and core builds
[19:31] <sergio-br2> i'm having problem with quilt patch: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/181006003/buildlog.txt.gz
[19:32] <cjohnston> sergio-br2: that's an old build correct? (more than an hour or two)
[19:33] <cjohnston> sorry.. now I see what I think is the proper timestamp
[19:33] <sergio-br2> it's other package
[19:33] <sergio-br2> it's the last build
[19:34] <sergio-br2> funny, this quilt patch works here, even with debian/ folder inside retroarch code
[19:34] <sergio-br2> *here in my machine
[19:34] <cjohnston> cjwatson: ^
[19:35] <sergio-br2> forget
[19:35] <sergio-br2> i think there are some files missing yet, in the repo
[19:37] <bennabiy> what is with this...     You have exceeded today's quota for ubuntu utopic, ubuntu trusty, ubuntu precise. ?
[19:37] <bennabiy> I have never had a limit on being able to build my package
[19:38] <bennabiy> is this new?
[19:38] <sergio-br2> me?
[19:41] <bennabiy> cjwatson: Is there now a limit on how many builds can be done in a day?
[19:43] <sergio-br2> 5 builds each ubuntu version
[19:43] <sergio-br2> yeah, I already had this problem
[19:47] <bennabiy> bah, can someone reset it? I used up my builds troubleshooting the issue with launchpad!
[19:48] <dobey> bennabiy: the quota exists because people keep wasiting resources trying to constantly rebuild broken packages as they try to learn how to package things. you should test builds locally with sbuild before uploading a package to a PPA
[19:49] <bennabiy> dobey: my package was fine. It was launchpad which was broken
[19:49] <bennabiy> and I kept rebuilding to help cjwatson track down the issue with quilt
[19:49] <dobey> how so?
[19:49] <bennabiy> and now I cannot actually rebuild it when I need to.
[19:51] <dobey> bennabiy: i think you'll need to ask cjwatson about that if/when he returns then (it's getting late over on that side of the atlantic)
[19:51] <dobey> or if wgrant appears soon, he might be able to help with that
[19:51]  * bennabiy sighs
[19:51] <dobey> i can't do anything about the quota, sorry
[19:52] <bennabiy> thank you dobey
[19:52] <cjohnston> cprov: any thoughts ^
[19:53] <cprov> cjohnston: no, sorry, you need an lp-admin for that
[19:54] <cjohnston> ack
[19:55] <bennabiy> Well, if one shows up. I would appreciate it. Otherwise, is there a way to patch the files on my machine, and then upload the revisions?
[19:59] <cjwatson> the quota is hardcoded in LP code
[19:59] <cjwatson> but you can build again tomorrow
[19:59] <cjwatson> this is why I test-built myself after the first time ...
[20:00] <cjwatson> sorry for the inconvenience, but it should just be for today
[20:00] <cjwatson> it's only recipes.  Ordinary PPA uploads have no quota
[20:00] <cjwatson> so you can certainly grab the source package from the recipe-target PPA, modify, reupload
[20:05] <LiamW> how can I sort bugs by importance, then by age?
[20:06] <LiamW> I want to have "Triaged" bugs appear first, ordered by their age
[20:06] <LiamW> then "Confirmed," etc
[20:07] <LiamW> can I do this by just browsing on the website or will I need to use something like launchpadlib to do that?
[20:07] <dobey> isn't that just how it works on the web site?
[20:09] <dobey> oh, i guess you can't explicitly say "triaged first" on the web site
[20:09] <dobey> it will show fix committed and in progress bugs above triaged bugs
[20:09] <LiamW> you can probably hide fixcommitted bugs from the listing
[20:09] <dobey> yes, with an advanced search
[20:17] <bennabiy> cjohnston, cjwatson : thank you


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