[07:30] <sakrecoer> now we have an iso and its in the tracker!
[07:30] <flocculant> just in time for it all to go wrong for the respin :D
[07:30] <sakrecoer> haha!
[07:31] <sakrecoer> flocculant: i admit feeling for anticipating that and go for last minute testing
[07:31] <flocculant> :)
[07:31] <sakrecoer> flocculant: good morning also :)
[07:31] <flocculant> good morning to you too
[07:31] <sakrecoer> flocculant: any news from the lock/suspend bug?
[07:31] <flocculant> time to stagger of into the day for me, so cya later
[07:32] <sakrecoer> ok, read you later have a good one flocculant o/
[07:32] <flocculant> not much - we're having to decide *soon* whether to ditch it or not
[07:33] <sakrecoer> i will be quitely following your discussion in #x-d
[07:34] <sakrecoer> if i knew anything worthy to share i would obviously, but i don't hence 'quietly'
[07:45] <DalekSec> Should likely mention here too.  I uploaded a fixed version of xfce4-session so xscreensaver users will be able to use the "New Login" button.
[07:53] <sakrecoer> oh wow! thanks DalekSec ! :)
[07:54] <sakrecoer> i've missed having a slide show of my photos as screensaver, such a good way to actualy look at ones photolib
[07:54] <DalekSec> sakrecoer: Shouldn't really affect you as you don't ship xscreensaver.
[07:54] <sakrecoer> no, but now we could :)
[07:54] <sakrecoer> probably not this roind though
[07:54] <sakrecoer> *round
[10:36] <eylul> ok, question about testing. how much do we worry about lack of translations?
[11:19] <sakrecoer> eylul: thinking about this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1550186
[11:19] <sakrecoer> if yes, it has been there for long now, that is, despite what the QA test says, it doesn't seem to be a game stopper :D
[11:21] <eylul> yes!
[11:21] <eylul> well it turns out there is quite a bit of Turkish translation missing all over the place but I am not sure what is considered critical, and what is considered "file the bug and move on"
[11:22] <eylul> that's the only one on that screen through
[11:30] <flocculant> eylul: translations for anything other than 'your flavour' are done elsewhere, so I'd not consider that critical - you'd be waiting on some other team to do that
[11:30] <flocculant> same here - I had someone mail me yesterday about exactly the same thing - told them exactly the same thing
[11:30] <flocculant> of course what studio does is up to them - just my pov :)
[12:37] <eylul> I am happy to go with whatever I just wasn't sure because the testing instructions were explicit on translation. well move on it is ;)
[15:31] <sakrecoer> JLye: here is the wiki page on testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/ISOTesting
[15:31] <sakrecoer> here is the part on how to create the usb-drive: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/ISOTesting#Create_an_Installer
[15:32] <sakrecoer> you might want to add "bs=512"
[15:33] <sakrecoer> like this: "sudo dd bs=512 if=/path/to/your.iso of=/dev/sdX"
[15:33] <sakrecoer> where sdX is the name of your USB drive
[17:24] <sakrecoer> how do i let grub rebuild the boot menu?
[17:24] <sakrecoer> can it do it on itself?
[17:24] <sakrecoer> i might have deleted the wrong partition lol :D
[17:25] <sakrecoer> but it would be weird, because one was encrypted and the other wasnt...
[17:25] <sakrecoer> but when installed the 16.10 64 bit, it only wanted to install along side the partition i thought i had deleted..
[17:26] <sakrecoer> hmm... and calibre keeps on crashing on me...
[17:26] <sakrecoer> never got it running once since we pulled it in..
[17:29] <sakrecoer> eylul: have you been able to run calibre?
[17:30] <sakrecoer> anyone tried it?
[17:32] <sakrecoer> same with ebook viewer, but is suspect they use the same things..
[17:32] <sakrecoer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calibre/+bug/1616864
[17:32] <sakrecoer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calibre/+bug/1621205
[17:32] <sakrecoer> both are marked private... :/
[17:37] <sakrecoer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calibre/+bug/1616864
[17:37] <sakrecoer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calibre/+bug/1616864
[17:38] <sakrecoer> there... i hope i'm not compromising myself by making it public lol... i use a gimmick password when testing anyway...
[17:39] <sakrecoer> common ubottu bug #1616864
[17:39] <sakrecoer> hehe how about  bug #1621205
[17:56] <eylul> sakrecoer: yes
[17:56] <eylul> I was able to run it just fine. that's weird
[17:59] <eylul> calibre did crash after closing but it ran just fine. that's weird
[18:13] <sakrecoer> eylul: it doesn't crash when you quit it?
[18:13] <sakrecoer> it happens to me with 32-but version aswell..
[18:13] <eylul> actually now it doesn't crash at all
[18:13] <eylul> although it did when I started the installation at first
[18:14] <eylul> so when I tried it on live-cd it crashed after a while after closing, on install it crashed after first launch and then again a bit later. (I didn't take it too seriously because.. after closing exit button). but now I am trying again, to get it to crash on install
[18:14] <eylul> so far..
[18:14] <eylul> nothing
[18:15] <eylul> nope, no crash
[18:15] <sakrecoer> ok.. i have the same problem with ebook viewer...
[18:16] <eylul> *goes back to the live-cd*
[18:16] <eylul> -oh here we go
[18:16] <sakrecoer> also once installed...
[18:16] <eylul> ebook-viewer crashed.
[18:16] <eylul> it just took a while
[18:16] <eylul> after I exited
[18:17] <eylul> can't replicate the calibre crash so far but who knows
[18:18] <sakrecoer> calibre runs fine, until i open inkscape or hydrogen... but on exit, it gives me a crash everysingle time...
[18:18] <sakrecoer> so i guess, it doesn't rn fine for me...
[18:18] <eylul> *blinks*
[18:18] <eylul> let me try replicating that
[18:18] <sakrecoer> nicowe: what is your experience with calibre and ebook viewer?
[18:18] <eylul> also.. I do want to try something else
[18:21] <eylul> umm sakrecoer: I just launched hydrogen on top of calibre
[18:21] <eylul> so far
[18:21] <nicowe> I have not tried them so far. I'm gonna do that right now
[18:21] <eylul> no crash
[18:21] <nicowe> I'll be back in a few
[18:21] <sakrecoer> eylul: what happens if you close it now?
[18:21] <eylul> close calibre?
[18:22] <eylul> just closed calibre.
[18:22] <eylul> *patiently waits for a crash, it takes a while sometimes*
[18:22] <sakrecoer> and this is a virtual machine right?
[18:23] <eylul> nope. no crash
[18:23] <eylul> yeah
[18:23] <sakrecoer> last time i tried the live system on 3 different machines and it gave me the same result.
[18:23] <sakrecoer> beta1 that is
[18:23] <eylul> what did you test this on?
[18:23] <eylul> and get the crash?
[18:24] <sakrecoer> 2 different laptops and one stationary... 2 intel and one amd
[18:24] <sakrecoer> yes
[18:24] <sakrecoer> all of them
[18:25] <eylul> I do wonder if this is something that gets triggered with certain amount of memory or something
[18:25] <eylul> this is weird
[18:25] <eylul> *waits for nicowe's report*
[18:29] <sakrecoer> any luck nicowe ? :)
[18:31] <nicowe> I ran well but now I have an error
[18:32] <nicowe> calibre-parallel crashed with SIGSEV in QObject::disconnect()
[18:32] <eylul> on exit right?
[18:33] <nicowe> yes
[18:34] <eylul> annnd I just crashed it without exiting.
[18:35] <sakrecoer> nicowe: yupp thats the one..
[18:35] <sakrecoer> try ebook reader also if you can..
[18:36] <sakrecoer> it has a similar issue...
[18:36] <sakrecoer> bug #1621205
[18:37] <eylul> sakrecoer I am beginning to wonder if the crash with hydrogen is a coincidence
[18:37] <eylul> and that it was going to crash with or without it
[18:37] <sakrecoer> on beta 1 it reproduced 10/10..
[18:38] <sakrecoer> maybe though...
[18:38] <sakrecoer> maybe it was going to crash anyway...
[18:38] <eylul> exactly
[18:38] <eylul> because while I did crash calibre once or twice, kind of failed at doing so with hydrogen :)
[18:40] <nicowe> sakrecoer: yes I have the same error with ebook reader
[18:40] <sakrecoer> can you update your repport on the tracker nicowe, please? :)
[18:41] <sakrecoer> nicowe: are you seonserey? what do you use to login? i can't find your launchpad page...
[18:41] <nicowe> on the testcase post-installation ?
[18:41] <sakrecoer> to login to the iso tracker...
[18:41] <sakrecoer> yes, that one :)
[18:42] <nicowe> yes i am seonserey I changed the name but it did not update for some reason
[18:42] <nicowe> I'll fill the testcase
[18:42] <sakrecoer> do you want me to add you to the ubuntustudio team, nicowe ? :)
[18:42] <sakrecoer> thanks!!
[18:42] <nicowe> yes please :)
[18:43] <sakrecoer> cool! :) when you are don, can you pass me your launchpad url?
[18:47] <nicowe> https://launchpad.net/~nicowe
[18:47] <nicowe> is that it ?
[18:49] <sakrecoer> nicowe: :) yes!
[18:50] <geirdal> hehe
[18:50] <nicowe> okay i've added the result
[18:51] <sakrecoer> hello geirdal :)
[18:51] <geirdal> hi sakrecoer
[18:53] <eylul> hi geirdal
[18:54] <sakrecoer> geirdal: did you manage to geirdify that picture and make a hi-res version of the top picture?
[18:57] <eylul> this reminds me..
[18:58] <geirdal> eylul, hi
[18:58] <geirdal> Ima working on it sakrecoer
[18:59] <geirdal> will finsh tomorrow
[18:59] <sakrecoer> awesome! :)
[18:59] <geirdal> :)
[19:02] <eylul> geirdal
[19:02] <eylul> may I add another to your queue of images?
[19:02] <eylul> :)
[19:02] <geirdal> yes
[19:02] <eylul> http://ubuntustudio.azbulutlu.org/websiteImages/graphics2_1280.png this is an alternative image for graphics we would like to try
[19:03] <geirdal> ok
[19:03] <geirdal> will do that
[19:03] <eylul> awesome
[19:03] <eylul> thanks very much
[19:03] <geirdal> no thank you
[19:05] <eylul> also do you think you could upload the .kra files somewhere if you have them? that way we don't have to ping you for every tiny edit, and I think sakrecoer plans to have a repo for everything together (sakrecoer feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you earlier), which reminds me I also need to do that for the image we used on other pages.
[19:07] <eylul> wb nicowe
[19:10] <sakrecoer> guys, what do you think about the ebook-viewer and the LRF viewer, shouldn't those be in "office" with calibre?
[19:11] <sakrecoer> instead of in graphics.. i'm reffering to the menu..
[19:13] <eylul> well either all of them should be in office, or all of them in graphics
[19:14] <eylul> but yeah
[19:14] <geirdal> office
[19:15] <sakrecoer> i agree "office" isn't the best word. but i think they should indeed all be in the same.
[19:15] <eylul> does it makes sense that scribus is in graphics while the rest of these programs are in office?
[19:16] <geirdal> scribus is office
[19:16] <nicowe> I would also put them both in office
[19:16] <sakrecoer> scribus is graphics design by all means.
[19:17] <sakrecoer> but yeah, its ambiguous
[19:17] <eylul> could be under both
[19:17] <eylul> (for scribus)
[19:18] <sakrecoer> i donÃÃ't quite agree... it's a layout program
[19:18] <eylul> well that is why we added calibre too, it does ebooks from scratch
[19:18] <sakrecoer> it is like saying adobe-indesign is an office application.
[19:18] <geirdal> and therfore a graphic software! right?
[19:19] <sakrecoer> geirdal: yes, scribus is made for printed graphic design.
[19:20] <sakrecoer> typsetting, it also happens to be able to produce books, so i see the ambiguity, but it is defenitly a graphic design application
[19:20] <eylul> eh...
[19:22] <eylul> there is.. a lot of discussion that can be made around this in terms of calibre, libreoffice, scribus etc.. but that is not something we should probably get into at this time :D
[19:22] <eylul> so lfr and ebook viewer into office categories makes sense :)
[19:22] <sakrecoer> you can't compare scribus to calibre and libreoffice by any mean, but sure
[19:22] <geirdal> it does
[19:23] <eylul> *moves to offtopic to elaborate
[20:13] <sakrecoer> i put the mockupof the release wiki page up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Beta2/UbuntuStudio
[20:17] <eylul> sakrecoer: in main multimedia packages, we should probably add krita, especially since there is the known situation that it is an outdated package
[20:17] <eylul> also perhaps mention lmms as well. ;) *ducks the incoming object*
[20:18] <sakrecoer> what is there to mention? *ducks too in an empatetic reflex, unknowing of why*
[20:18] <eylul> heheh
[20:19] <eylul> well lmms is a major program too, just like gimp, and ardour. :) That's all
[20:20] <sakrecoer> true :
[20:20] <sakrecoer> :)
[20:20] <eylul> :)
[20:20] <sakrecoer> also, now in alphabetical (big up krytarik )
[20:21] <eylul> heh
[22:00] <sakrecoer> i'm gonna mark the iso ready and head to bed..
[22:01] <sakrecoer> we'll see tomorrow if there was a respin in the end or not...


[00:50] <_mup_> juju/enhanced-relation-support r11 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:50] <_mup_> Usage and impl details
[02:38] <m_3> bac: might be easier to hit me up wth email this week for questions about the buildbot review
[03:33] <_mup_> juju/enhanced-relation-support r12 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:33] <_mup_> Completed impl plan and details
[14:50] <jcastro> SpamapS: charm school rehearsal!
[15:12] <jcastro> SpamapS: 3 minutes!
[16:10] <ivoks> can someone help me out here? what's exactly failing here? http://paste.ubuntu.com/860691/
[16:24] <ivoks> juju destroy-environment otoh works :)
[16:39] <james_w> does someone have a pointer to this summit charm I'm hearing about?
[18:50] <robbiew> m_3: ^^^^^^?
[18:51] <robbiew> ivoks: hazmat jimbaker or bcsaller are your best bets for help there
[18:53] <bcsaller> ivoks: the last line of your paste: 2012-02-28 11:08:53,092 DEBUG Environment still initializing. Will wait.
[18:53] <bcsaller> ivoks: sounds like its still doing the bootstrap
[18:53] <bcsaller> takes a while
[18:55] <ivoks> bcsaller: it's not
[18:55] <ivoks> bcsaller: i've digged into it a bit more
[18:56] <ivoks> bcsaller: none of the juju services are started within the instance
[18:56] <hazmat> ivoks, are you on/ssh'd into the machine?
[18:56] <ivoks> hazmat: i'm not now, but yes, i can ssh into it
[18:56] <hazmat> ivoks, which version of juju are you running?
[18:56] <ivoks> hazmat: in an hour :)
[18:57] <ivoks> hazmat: all precise
[18:57] <ivoks> host and guests
[18:57] <hazmat> ivoks, from ppa or the distro version?
[18:57] <ivoks> distro
[18:57] <hazmat> ivoks, cool, if you can log in and get the cloud-init logs that should be helpful
[18:58] <ivoks> hazmat: i've noticed it complains about bad syntax for juju-admin
[18:58] <ivoks> and also both juju services said that --nodeamonize (or --nodaemon) is bad option
[18:59] <hazmat> ivoks, that would imply a client vs node version mismatch
[18:59] <hazmat> ie different juju versions
[18:59] <ivoks> hazmat: i'm reimplementing openstack as we speek, so i'll be able to reproduce this in 60-90 minutes (or less)
[18:59] <hazmat> there was some large changes that landed last week, but they caused some incompatbilities between versions
[19:00] <hazmat> ivoks, reimplementing or redeploying? ;-)
[19:00] <hazmat> ivoks, cool
[19:01] <ivoks> hazmat: both :/
[19:01] <ivoks> hazmat: hardware and sotfware :D
[19:31] <ivoks> hazmat: ok, i have system up and ready
[19:32] <hazmat> ivoks, the file i'd be interested in is.. /var/log/cloud-init-output.log
[19:32] <ivoks> give me a second, i need to bootstrap it
[19:39] <ivoks> hazmat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/860965/ <- that's from console
[19:40] <ivoks> hazmat: well, same thing is in the log
[19:43] <m_3> james_w: summit's still in progress... it's a combo of pgsql, memcache, and a fork of lp:~michael.nelson/charms/oneiric/apache-django-wsgi/trunk with summit-specific setup
[19:43] <james_w> m_3, interesting, I'd like to take a look when it's nearing completion
[19:44] <james_w> I have another django thing I want to charm, so I'm keen for some convergence
[19:44] <m_3> james_w: sure, I'll ping you for summit help... I understand most of what's going on so far
[19:44] <m_3> but there are a couple of places where it assumes interactive installation
[19:46] <james_w> in the init-summit stuff?
[19:46] <m_3> james_w: I'll push up to lp:~mark-mims/charms/oneiric/summit/trunk and ping you when there's more to look at
[19:46] <james_w> thanks
[19:46] <m_3> I'm planning on keeping with the puppet-based django charm for now... might back off of that later, but haven't decided yet
[19:50] <james_w> I think it's good as an example, but a set of helpers (puppet modules?) to make writing django charms easier would be better
[19:53] <ivoks> hazmat: machine-agent.log shows: juju.state.errors.MachineStateNotFound: Machine 0 was not found
[19:55] <ivoks> hazmat: i didn't look into juju internals, but does it ask nova-compute for the state of the node? i just noticed "AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'state'" in nova-compute's log
[19:58] <hazmat> ivoks, sorry was in a meeting
[19:59] <ivoks> hazmat: no worries
[19:59] <hazmat> ivoks, can you pastebin the cloud-init/user-data .. its at /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt
[19:59] <hazmat> this sounds vaguely familiar
[20:00] <ivoks> hazmat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/861000/
[20:00] <hazmat> SpamapS, m_3 does that ring any bells.. juju-admin: error: unrecognized arguments: 2007-01-19 2007-03-01 2007-08-29 2007
[20:01] <hazmat> its like its getting junk back from the metadata server
[20:01] <hazmat> ivoks, what version of openstack?
[20:01] <ivoks> hazmat: 2012.1~e4~20120224.12913
[20:02] <hazmat> ivoks, if you do curl http://<IP_ADDRESS>/1.0/meta-data/instance-id  what do you get back?
[20:02] <ivoks> 1.0
[20:03] <ivoks> and then bunch of dates
[20:03] <hazmat> that's the problem
[20:03] <ivoks> hazmat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/861002/
[20:03] <hazmat> smoser, adam_g does that sound familiar.. metadata server returning back junk
[20:04] <hazmat> i wonder if i can reproduce with devstack
[20:04] <SpamapS> hazmat: yes I've seen that.. IIRC its from broken metadata service.
[20:04] <ivoks> fwiw, this is keystone only auth
[20:05] <smoser> why are you using 1.0 ?
[20:05] <smoser> i think it doesn't matter actually, but i wouldn' tuse that.
[20:05] <ivoks> er... 1.0 of what?
[20:06] <smoser> in that url
[20:06] <smoser> '1.0/meta-data/instance-id'
[20:06] <hazmat> smoser, because its stable and well known
[20:06] <smoser> dont use that and it works.
[20:06] <smoser> hazmat, 1.0 is probably missing all sorts of things you want anyway.
[20:06] <ivoks> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/sdfgsdfg/meta-data/instance-id
[20:06] <ivoks> that gives the same outpu
[20:06] <smoser> right
[20:06] <smoser> its basically unknown to openstack
[20:07] <smoser> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/2009-04-04/meta-data/instance-id
[20:07] <smoser> use that
[20:07] <hazmat> smoser, but its returning back its knowns, and it returns back 1.0 as a valid value
[20:07] <ivoks> now that's right
[20:07] <ivoks> i-00000001
[20:07] <smoser> hazmat, yeah, you're right. it does list it in the index.
[20:07] <smoser> which is obviously wrong.
[20:08] <hazmat> ie. it should work, but its a bug in ostack imo
[20:08] <hazmat> we can update it to a newer version.. but really we don't need much else besides pub/priv address and instance id from the md server
[20:12] <ivoks> hazmat: is there anything i can do on a live system... i guess i need to change the path somewhere?
[20:12] <smoser> ivoks, please open a bug on nova.
[20:12] <ivoks> smoser: ok
[20:13] <ivoks> not sure how to phrase it :D
[20:13] <smoser> metadata service reports to support 1.0 but serves incorrect data
[20:13] <ivoks> thanks
[20:13] <smoser> then show your wget's
[20:16] <hazmat> ivoks, pls paste a link to the bug here, i'm going to explore it a little more
[20:17] <ivoks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/942868
[20:17] <_mup_> Bug #942868: metadata service reports to support 1.0 but serves incorrect data <OpenStack Compute (nova):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/942868 >
[20:20] <hazmat> ivoks, thanks
[20:20] <ivoks> hazmat: np
[20:22] <ivoks> 2012-02-28 15:22:47,958 INFO Connected to environment.
[20:23] <ivoks> finally :)
[20:41] <hazmat> smoser, does devstack work on precise?
[20:41] <hazmat> there's a bunch of oneiric only labeling on it
[20:42] <ivoks> zul's packages work
[20:42] <ivoks> from the archives
[20:43] <smoser> hazmat, yes, it works.
[20:43] <smoser> FORCE=yes
[20:47] <hazmat> ivoks, smoser thanks
[20:47] <smoser> hazmat, by works, i mean maybe
[20:47] <smoser> :)
[20:47] <smoser> it has worked. and has been broken.
[20:48] <_mup_> Bug #942868 was filed: metadata service reports to support 1.0 but serves incorrect data <juju:Confirmed> <OpenStack Compute (nova):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/942868 >
[20:48] <zul> hazmat: yes it does
[20:48] <ivoks> hazmat: note that bootstraping juju with e4 will fail
[20:55] <ivoks> is there a way to pass additional info to cloud-init while doing juju bootstrap (like apt proxy)? i've seen a bug about this issue...
[20:59] <hazmat> ivoks, there isn't, although that one in particular is worth exposing i think
[21:07] <jcastro> SpamapS: 51 charms, did you promulgate something?
[21:20] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'd love to see the full power of cloud-init exposed to people
[21:20] <SpamapS> hazmat: by and large, we should abstract the things that make sense across all providers, but being able to slide your own cloud-config in would be quite useful.
[21:21] <niemeyer> SpamapS: This would render charms dependent on such cloud-init config..
[21:24] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I hadn't thought about it until you said charms, but really.. subordinate charms almost give us the same capability as cloud-init..
[21:25] <SpamapS> niemeyer: the only thing missing is the ability to do interesting things to the system in early-boot
[21:25] <SpamapS> which I don't think most people want
[21:26] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Agreed
[21:26] <SpamapS> what I do think people want is the ability to have their data on a RAID of EBS volumes, or the ability to install a bunch of extra stuff... both of those will work fine with subordinates
[21:26] <SpamapS> Though the EBS thing will still require manual intervention to attach the EBS volumes.. that would be true of cloud-init too actually.
[21:34] <niemeyer> SpamapS: That'll eventually be handled internally by juju itself
[21:35] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I've bee kicking some ideas around in my head about how it might work. I feel like we're still a world away from addressing it though.
[21:36] <niemeyer> SpamapS: As far as focus goes, agreed
[21:36] <SpamapS> niemeyer: like, I don't even know what to ask for. ;)
[21:36] <niemeyer> SpamapS: That's been on the table since first tech sprint, though
[21:38] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It's about management of volumes and relationship between volumes and units
[21:38] <niemeyer> SpamapS: This must be a first-class feature
[21:39] <SpamapS> niemeyer: yeah, I feel like the simples thing to do is to just track the volumes that get attached to EBS rooted machines.. and offer a way to say "add-unit --volume-id d-203494950"
[21:39] <SpamapS> niemeyer: but I know thats glossing over a lot of details
[21:41] <jcastro> SpamapS: launchpad workflow email on the list, I mention you explicitly to explain something so if you could that would be swell. :)
[21:42] <hazmat> we need juju eatings its own tail first
[21:42] <hazmat> then we can launch juju environment infrastructure services like volume management
[21:42] <hazmat> they would be provider specific in the case of volume management
[21:43] <hazmat> ie. perhaps ceph for maas/orchestra, ebs for ec2
[21:43] <hazmat> and then have per unit volumes against the storage service, or in some cases against direct/ephemeral disk
[21:44] <SpamapS> hazmat: at a simple level, those are all doable as subordinates now.
[21:44] <SpamapS> or
[21:44] <SpamapS> when it lands
[21:45]  * SpamapS notes that Ubuntu 12.04 beta1 is dropping any minute.. w/o subordinates.. :(
[21:45] <hazmat> SpamapS, subordinates get a little messy here, and subordinates live in their principal's environnment
[21:45] <hazmat> so they'd be coming in after the principal, the sequence is wrong.. its much simpler if its in core imo.. yes it could be hacked between cooperating charms with intimate details..
[21:46] <SpamapS> hazmat: the subordinate can be related to other services though right? So the ceph-client subordinate will be able to ask services where to mount their ceph-backed-block device
[21:46] <hazmat> SpamapS, first subordinate branches just landed
[21:46] <hazmat> SpamapS, yes
[21:46] <SpamapS> Ordering, once again, rears its ugly head
[21:46] <hazmat> SpamapS, but what's the lifecycle.. the subordinate can be added to the principal at any point in the principal's lifecycle.
[21:47] <hazmat> so the principal already has a bunch of data, and then your copying data around volumes and coordinating the unit's underlying service and relations to during that migration.. its pretty messy imo
[21:47] <SpamapS> hazmat: the principle needs a way to delay full configuration until certain relations are established.. in this case.. the subordinate "where do I put my data" relation. :)
[21:48] <SpamapS> hazmat: forget subordinates, this is true of other services too like nova api that have two options (local or remote database storage)
[21:48] <hazmat> SpamapS, again this is much simpler if something as intrinsic as storage is in the core
[21:48] <hazmat> SpamapS,  required relations are orthogonal, but also of import
[21:49] <hazmat> deploying subordinates when the principal isn't a known running state, complicates their communication imo.. a unit doesn't respond to relation events till its running/started
[21:49] <SpamapS> I see the two use cases as equals until we have any kind of real discussion about storage.
[21:50] <SpamapS> hazmat: so, the answer I have for the nova problem and ceph (it has this problem too) is to just have a config option giving the relations hints about when to store data.
[21:52] <SpamapS> So for ceph, you just tell ceph "start-nodes=4"" and it delays data storage until there are 4 peer units.
[21:52] <hazmat> SpamapS, so i think we've walked around two solutions for required.. one is per the subordinate implementation, don't deploy actual units till the required relations are satisifed.. ie. in much the same way that subordinates units are actualized till the subordinate relation is established
[21:53] <hazmat> the other is a unit don't join provider relations till its requires are satisifed
[21:54] <hazmat> which is actually a bit better/needed imo, else you get additional ordering issues around when is something fully operational.. ie deploy with dep relations doesn't nesc. solve the ordering around consumers of the service attempting to use it pre its initialazation.. but waiting till its dependencies are solved and running does.
[21:54] <hazmat> SpamapS, i don't think config option is the right solution
[21:55] <SpamapS> hazmat: no, its the "current" solution
[21:55] <hazmat> fair enough
[21:55] <_mup_> juju/enhanced-relation-support r13 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:55] <_mup_> Reworked docs on changes to relation commands
[22:05] <jcastro> niemeyer: hey we did this already right "[niemeyer] drive dicussion about interface documentation on juju mailing list"?
[22:05]  * jcastro is cleaning up spec work items
[22:05] <niemeyer> jcastro: Kind of..
[22:06] <niemeyer> jcastro: I did this before, maybe a couple of times even, but I wouldn't consider the problem as solved
[22:06] <jcastro> my bp is that we have a discussion, a solution or not isn't in my scope. :)
[22:07] <niemeyer> jcastro: LOL
[22:08] <hazmat> niemeyer, did you see clint's email to the list re env vars.. i asked him to post there for your feedback
[22:09] <niemeyer> hazmat: I missed that.. looking
[22:09] <jcastro> ok I'll put "inprogress" until I am more desperate to close it
[22:14] <hazmat> jcastro, it wouldn't be hard to do some bespoke interface analysis for documentation
[22:15] <hazmat> its kinda of hacky.. but we could track all the keys being get/set
[22:15] <jcastro> hazmat: hey speaking of, we need to figure out how to style the generated sphix docs
[22:15] <hazmat> via charm introspection
[22:15] <jcastro> say something magical like "bootstrap can do all that for us easily"
[22:15] <hazmat> jcastro, ugh.. that means another rt... better start now if you know what you want..
[22:15] <jcastro> heh ok
[22:16] <hazmat> jcastro, i'd look around/google for sphinx themes
[22:16] <hazmat> and see if there's something reasonable out there
[22:16] <jcastro> I'd like to see if anyone else in the project is styling their sphix
[22:16] <jcastro> maybe we can steal
[22:16] <hazmat> i don't think bootstrap whole sales is going to work with sphinx without some dev time
[22:16] <hazmat> jcastro, yup.. that's a good plan
[22:17] <hazmat> jcastro, i kinda of like the sphinx theme the celery folks did
[22:17] <jcastro> I don't see other ones styling it, I am debating if it's even worth the effort right now
[22:17] <james_w> jcastro, I'm pretty sure http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ is sphinx
[22:17] <hazmat> oh.. nevermind that's the old one
[22:19] <jcastro> james_w: oh nice, where'd you get that, dholbach?
[22:19] <hazmat> jcastro, actually it looks we don't need an RT we can just mod the source..
[22:20] <hazmat> the makefile for the cron is the same
[22:20] <james_w> jcastro, yeah, he'll know for sure
[22:20] <hazmat> here's some.. http://pythonic.pocoo.org/2010/1/8/new-themes-in-sphinx-1-0
[22:21] <james_w> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-packaging-guide-team/ubuntu-packaging-guide/trunk/files/head:/themes/ubuntu/
[22:21] <hazmat> these are the built in ones.. http://sphinx.pocoo.org/theming.html
[22:21] <hazmat> james_w, cool.. it kinda of looks ugly but we grab the colors ;-)
[22:24] <hazmat> m_3, ping
[22:26] <m_3> hazmat: hey
[22:27] <hazmat> m_3, hey just wanted to check and see how charmrunner is working out
[22:27] <m_3> hazmat: working through some recursion problems with the planner
[22:27] <hazmat> m_3, oh.. do tell?
[22:27] <hazmat> m_3, which charm?
[22:27] <m_3> on gnaglia for some reason... lemme get you the logs... link coming
[22:28] <hazmat> m_3, typically that means a semantic in the charm error but not always
[22:28] <m_3> also need to coerce max_time into float for watch
[22:29]  * m_3 grrrr latency
[22:29] <hazmat> m_3, i switched the project maintainer to juju-jitsu hackers.. if you need to merge something
[22:30] <m_3> http://ec2-50-16-5-188.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8080/job/oneiric-local-charm-ganglia/
[22:30] <m_3> hazmat: ^^
[22:30] <m_3> I'd like to take it down soon so lemme know when you're done digging through the workspace
[22:31] <m_3> hazmat: thanks for the ownership... I'll push the float commit
[22:31] <niemeyer> hazmat, SpamapS: Responded
[22:31] <hazmat> m_3, what's the channel for test notifications?
[22:32] <m_3> hazmat: ##charmbot-test
[22:32] <hazmat> ah it is a double hash
[22:33] <m_3> trying to be polite with made-up channels :)
[22:33] <m_3> I'll figure out the problem (like you said, prob just syntax somewher in interface)
[22:34] <m_3> but that' pretty much status atm
[22:38] <hazmat> m_3, so besides ganglia its been okay?
[22:38] <hazmat> m_3, are you copying the juju-record output into the workspace?.. is that logs.zip?
[22:39] <hazmat> its more than just the logs but fair enough
[22:39] <hazmat> cool!
[22:39] <m_3> hazmat: just walking through the list of fails... ganglia was the third type of fail
[22:40] <m_3> I need to re-run to test other timeout fails with new max_time... that was my next step
[22:41] <m_3> yeah, it's coming along nicely in general though
[22:41] <hazmat> m_3, yeah.. the service watcher timeout code was a little suspect i think
[22:42] <hazmat> it had too many ways of going at it
[22:42] <m_3> hazmat: there was another problem with the runner generating and reading plans from different places, but I'll push that back too
[22:42] <hazmat> m_3, sounds good
[22:42] <m_3> there's a bit of strange behavior in the watcher beesides timeout, but one at a time
[22:44] <m_3> cool...


[02:11] <akgraner> Hi all!
[02:11] <akgraner> I just got back from SELF :-)
[02:13] <scott_ev> oh, crap.  today is sunday...
[02:13] <scott_ev> I couldn't sleep last night and slept till 3pm today
[02:14] <scott_ev> did everything go OK?
[02:15] <akgraner> scott_ev, I just got back from SELF - I'll publish in the am
[02:16] <scott_ev> ok
[02:31] <nigelb> morning folks!
[16:19] <zkriesse> akgraner: ?
[16:36] <zkriesse> hello MikeDK
[21:17] <akgraner> zkriesse, ?
[21:18] <zkriesse> akgraner: hey! how was SELF?
[21:19] <zkriesse> akgraner: it's me...ZachK_ btw...changed my nick to something more "professional" at paultag's behest
[21:19] <akgraner> SELF was great - but got really really sick.... :-(
[21:19] <akgraner> working on the newsletter now - :-)  bbiab
[21:20] <zkriesse> ok
[21:41] <akgraner> hey all - I talked to jono a little this weekend about UWN and some changes to the format  - he didn't realize everyone has been giving up their weekends to get this out the door.  So after I get this produced today I'd like to brainstorm a few things this week if you all want to
[21:42] <akgraner> johnc4510, I need to bug you a little about the news-team mailing list - I need to know how to do some keyword auto discard
[21:42] <akgraner> I read the mailman information and couldn't find how to do that - I think I just overlooked it
[21:51] <akgraner> also after some thought - about the teams and stuff i think I have some solutions that should work and I completely understand why there is a need for 4 teams
[21:51] <akgraner> I'll get that out to everyone sometime this week as well
[21:52] <akgraner> zkriesse, I'm going to need to send you some information for the wikis as well - have you gotten a chance to play around with them at all
[21:52] <akgraner> I say some this weekend that all kinds of stuff added to them   - so I'll get you that as well
[21:53] <akgraner> We are going to need a couple more positions on the UWN team/staff - that are maintenance related and really UWN Issue related
[21:55] <akgraner> johnc4510, I talked to nick he is up for helping on issue 200
[21:57] <akgraner> also jcastro is in as well
[21:59] <akgraner> I'll schedule something for next week with as many of the past staff as possible  - everyone I've talked to so far seems up for the previous staff doing the 200th issue
[21:59] <akgraner> johnc4510, so if you want to be the go to person for it - I can tell them that in the meeting - just let me know
[22:01] <akgraner> and for everyone wondering why I didn't publish yesterday - I was really sick, (food poisoning), and I hit exhaustion...  so I took a deep breath and I want to start training cjohnston, internalkernel, Pendulum , and holstein on how to publish it this week - if they are all up for it
[22:01] <internalkernel> sure... I figured when I saw jono's & Jfo's tweets
[22:01] <akgraner> I was supposed to have surgery this week - but b/c I am sick they are postponing it one week...which gives me time to train some more people
[22:05] <internalkernel> akgraner: take your time and get better... Im home for the next few months, so hit me up when you need...
[22:06] <akgraner> internalkernel, if you and holstein can meet me at Fireside this week I can train you in person
[22:06] <internalkernel> fireside? firestorm - you mean, the café?
[22:06] <akgraner> I have to go back to the doctor on Thursday
[22:06] <akgraner> yeah that place :-P
[22:06] <akgraner> since I will be in Lake Lure - then that would be a good day
[22:07] <internalkernel> lol... for sure... I don't have a problem with that... just give me some notice, so I can coordinate the little one
[22:08] <Pendulum> akgraner: I'm up for whatever :)
[22:08] <Pendulum> I just can't make it down to NC this week :P
[22:08] <akgraner> so let's go with Thursday, 1pm Firestorm
[22:08] <akgraner> Pendulum, :-P
[22:09] <akgraner> Pendulum, well if you want to, you have a place to stay and more food than an army can eat  (my mom cooks way too much food)
[22:09] <Pendulum> I wish I could, but getting there is the problem
[22:10] <Pendulum> plus I see my ortho about my shoulder on thursday
[22:10] <akgraner> hope you get better news than me - and all goes well
[22:10] <internalkernel> Thursday should be good, the lady gets home in a few hours - I'll clear it and email back to you
[22:11] <akgraner> internalkernel, thanks - if you can touch base with Mike and let him know that would be awesome
[22:11] <internalkernel> yeah, should see him tonight at Rocket Club actually
[22:11] <akgraner> ugh
[22:11] <akgraner> I can't go anywhere
[22:11] <akgraner> I did good to make it to my dr. appt
[22:25] <pleia2> hehe, akgraner brain dump
[22:25] <pleia2> hope you feel better :)
[22:26] <akgraner> pleia2, thanks!
[22:27] <akgraner> pleia2, would you be up being a mailing list moderator?
[22:27] <pleia2> akgraner: sure, just as long as I'm not the only one :)
[22:28] <akgraner> no you won't be :-)
[22:29] <cjohnston> akgraner: want to plan a time?
[22:43] <akgraner> cjohnston, sure
[22:44] <akgraner> pleia2, I am one of the moderators, but I need a hand with it - nick is still listed as one and so is corey :-/
[22:44] <pleia2> akgraner: no problem, I'd be happy to help out
[22:46] <cjohnston> akgraner: what works for you? I can do tomorrow after 11, thurs afternoon, and friday
[22:47] <akgraner> cjohnston, how about after 11am? tomorrow
[22:47] <akgraner> Thursday is not good
[22:47] <cjohnston> Ya.. what time do you want to do?
[22:47] <akgraner> and Friday the kids and I are going to a movie
[22:47] <akgraner> :-)
[22:47] <cjohnston> toy story?
[22:47] <akgraner> how about noon?
[22:47] <cjohnston> sounds good
[22:48] <akgraner> skype?
[22:48] <cjohnston> sure
[22:48] <akgraner> ok noon tomorrow on skype
[22:48] <akgraner> plan on a couple of hours
[22:48] <cjohnston> yup
[22:48] <akgraner> let's say 2.5
[22:49] <cjohnston> its on the calendar
[22:49] <cjohnston> ill be there
[22:49] <akgraner> if you have a hard time understanding me - we can switch to the phone - I am squeaky again
[22:49] <cjohnston> lol
[22:50] <cjohnston> not suprising
[22:50] <cjohnston> what did you eat
[22:50] <akgraner> steak, grits, veggies
[22:54] <akgraner> at the speakers dinner it was steak, rice and veggies
[22:54] <akgraner> so I am not sure what make me sick
[23:00] <cjohnston> were you sick when i saw you yesterday?
[23:01] <cjohnston> We suggest florida for the next one
[23:01] <akgraner> well it is the Southeast Linux Fest - that leaves the door open for a ton of opportunities :-)
[23:02] <cjohnston> hehe
[23:02] <cjohnston> ill help out then
[23:02] <cjohnston> lol
[23:02] <cjohnston> not that i didnt..
[23:02] <cjohnston> but help more.. i couldnt afford to drive up there all the time for planning
[23:03] <akgraner> we don't meet in person for planning :-)
[23:03] <akgraner> Thank you for all your help
[23:03] <cjohnston> np
[23:03] <cjohnston> :-)
[23:03] <akgraner> I'll send you a t-shirt for Hope as well
[23:03] <cjohnston> sweet.. that'd be awesome
[23:04] <cjohnston> I want an ubuntu user shirt too. ;-)
[23:04] <akgraner> Rikki just placed a new order
[23:04]  * pleia2 is wearing hers right now \o/
[23:04] <akgraner> I'll pull you one out
[23:04] <cjohnston> She told me.. she also told me she probably wouldnt send me one
[23:04] <cjohnston> lol
[23:06] <akgraner> cjohnston, since you gave up a whole day to help at the Ubuntu Booth - remind me when you see me again to give you one
[23:07] <cjohnston> october!
[23:07] <akgraner> cjohnston, put on your calendar to remind me
[23:07] <cjohnston> lol
[23:07] <akgraner> seriously
[23:08] <akgraner> the only way people can get them right now is from me or Rikki
[23:08] <cjohnston> when do you want a reminder
[23:08] <akgraner> October 1st
[23:08] <cjohnston> ok
[23:08] <akgraner> and then again on the 11th
[23:08] <cjohnston> lol
[23:09] <cjohnston> the 12th is my birthday
[23:09] <cjohnston> when does udw planning start?
[23:09] <cjohnston> or has it
[23:10] <pleia2> sheesh, this team is maggoty with libras
[23:10] <cjohnston> lol
[23:10] <cjohnston> who else
[23:10] <pleia2> Pendulum, me
[23:10] <cjohnston> hope is libra also
[23:10] <cjohnston> got a call.. bbl
[23:23] <cjohnston> back
[23:23] <pleia2> all fires out?
[23:27] <cjohnston> no fires
[23:27] <cjohnston> people dont know how to boil h2o
[23:28] <cjohnston> how old is that picture?
[23:28] <pleia2> lol
[23:29] <pleia2> umm, girls inc was...
[23:29] <pleia2> 2007
[23:29] <cjohnston> lol
[23:30] <pleia2> they made me do a talk
[23:31] <pleia2> "you're a girl, talk to the girls about awesomeness of linux" wait, what?
[23:31] <pleia2> it was fun though
[23:32] <cjohnston> lol
[23:54] <pleia2> cjohnston: if someone else wants to help with #Support, let them at it, I'll add to it as I can throughout the week but I can't think of more to add right now
[23:57] <cjohnston> ok


[15:09] <stickupkid> manadart_, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12776
[15:29] <stickupkid> manadart_, next PR will attempt to clean up set-series as well
[15:29] <stickupkid> this is fun fun fun
[20:56] <xarlos> Hi there. Can anyone link me to something or be able to help me figure how I can inject a CA cert into a bootstrapping controller please? It
[20:57] <xarlos> is an internal certificate - and I cannot complete the bootstrap due to ssl insecurities.