[14:58] <bschaefer> fritsch, soo im guessing that DRM branch (if I cant show it works for multiple monitor + multiple gpu wont be a go)
[14:58] <bschaefer> which is fine. I can ifndef around to keep x11 in place then just DRM for anything else
[15:16] <fritsch> bschaefer: :-)
[15:16] <fritsch> don't use ifdefs are he will get more "angry"
[15:16] <bschaefer> :)
[15:16] <fritsch> you did nothing wrong - but yeah, you hit something that broke kodi over time
[15:17] <bschaefer> yeah, the drm code was just put out in vaapi in 2014? or 15
[15:17] <bschaefer> very recent
[15:17] <fritsch> not really recent
[15:17] <fritsch> as we (kodi) helped developing the egl interop
[15:17] <fritsch> so for us not recent
[15:17] <bschaefer> yeah, im still not sure of the pro for using x11 display directly
[15:17] <fritsch> the discussion was not ontopic anymore - just some old battles fought out
[15:17] <fritsch> about recent "problems"
[15:18] <fritsch> there is no advantage
[15:18] <fritsch> none at all
[15:18] <bschaefer> (besides picking a device if youve multiple i suppose?) But i cant test that
[15:18] <fritsch> it was from ancient time, when the vaPutSurface method for vaapi was tight to the rendering / display
[15:18] <bschaefer> o i see, which im assuming your trying to decouple?
[15:18] <bschaefer> (though depends on EGL atm anyway)
[15:18] <bschaefer> from the display server
[15:18] <fritsch> i see no point in coupling a decoder on a window server
[15:18] <fritsch> if everything it needs is a EGLDisplay
[15:19] <bschaefer> right... which it already does that :)
[15:19] <fritsch> the libva guys also saw that ... if you look in the android "backend" code
[15:19]  * bschaefer will have to poke RAOF about render nodes today when he gets on
[15:19] <bschaefer> fritsch, o yeah theres like nothing there
[15:20] <bschaefer> fritsch, the issue is i cant *open* card0
[15:20] <bschaefer> since mir already opens that
[15:20] <fritsch> no need to do so
[15:20] <fritsch> let me link you something
[15:20] <bschaefer> which is why render nodes are perfect
[15:21]  * bschaefer is still waking up and starts making coffee
[15:22] <fritsch> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libva/2014-September/002719.html
[15:22] <fritsch> here is the patchset that added it
[15:22]  * bschaefer looks
[15:23] <fritsch> the 2/2 patch
[15:23] <fritsch> has a test code
[15:23] <bschaefer> fritsch, o yeah i read that yesterday while digging around
[15:23] <fritsch> gwenole (the master mind of intel va) - not at intel anymore sadly - gave that test code
[15:23] <bschaefer> (well when i was running into issues with drmOpen)
[15:23] <fritsch> so, usage is perfectly fine
[15:24] <fritsch> back at the time, when render nodes nor EGL dma buf sharing existed
[15:24] <fritsch> the only way to get surfaces was either use vaPutSurface
[15:24] <fritsch> which was used for rendering, therefore used "X11" or whatever dependencies
[15:24] <fritsch> but then the infrastructure was finished
[15:25] <bschaefer> which makes sense!
[15:25]  * bschaefer needs to read how render nodes was implemented in the kernel
[15:25] <bschaefer> as im not *sure* what happens if you multiple render nodes
[15:25] <bschaefer> though reading it *shouldnt* matter
[15:25] <fritsch> I'd say nothing
[15:25] <fritsch> caus either: you can't open the node at all
[15:26] <fritsch> vaapi -> side
[15:26] <fritsch> or b) the interop fails
[15:26] <fritsch> but that should only fail if the eglDisplay / context
[15:26] <fritsch> is not valid
[15:26] <bschaefer> well lets say you have intel +  nvidia and you want to make kodi run on nvidia while your main display server runs on intel
[15:26] <bschaefer> IIRC you *can* do that
[15:27] <bschaefer> which idk ... what would happen or if we even support that :)
[15:27] <fritsch> nvidia has no support for the R8,G8 whatever sharing
[15:27] <fritsch> that means the moment the intel driver does no "own" the EGL context
[15:27] <fritsch> querying the extension will already fail
[15:27] <fritsch> I assume :-)
[15:27] <bschaefer> well then ... seems like more and more pointing to drm will work
[15:27] <bschaefer> how it already works
[15:28] <fritsch> yeah, as said - keep the PR as is for now. Thing will settle and calm down
[15:28] <bschaefer> yeah, I fixed the camel case and made a small comment but figured best left to let the dust settle :)
[15:28] <bschaefer> no worries
[15:30] <bschaefer> in the meantime ill now attempt to test mir how you mentioned in hopes of really testing the difference :)
[15:31] <bschaefer> it seems faster then x11 atm (at lease on my tests) for skipping at lease which means... the rendering
[15:31] <bschaefer> i think (vs drop which is the decoder?)
[15:33] <fritsch> i hope it IS faster than X11 :-)
[15:34] <fritsch> btw. are you sure you use lanczos3 scaler?
[15:34] <fritsch> afaik that only had GL support last time I looked
[15:34] <fritsch> drop is the decoder, yes
[15:34] <fritsch> skipping <- render performance
[15:35] <fritsch> benchmark case: 3840x2160 h264 60p, downscaled with lanczos3 to 1080p60
[15:35] <fritsch> you might only have nearest neighbour + bilinear available, though
[15:35] <bschaefer> fritsch, i wasnt really sure, i tried to change things but the settings when i hit o didnt seem to reflect the changes
[15:35] <bschaefer> which was confusing
[15:35] <fritsch> they don't afaik
[15:36] <fritsch> those values are hold in a ProcessInfo class
[15:36] <bschaefer> o well that makes sense since when i hit o it says dinterlace method: None
[15:36] <fritsch> that's fine
[15:36] <fritsch> you don't want to deinterlace progressive content
[15:36] <fritsch> http://solidrun.maltegrosse.de/~fritsch/
[15:36]  * bschaefer checks the scaler
[15:36] <fritsch> here are some samples I used when developing IMX6 support
[15:37] <fritsch> the 1080i50 should show something else, preferable VAAPI-MCDI
[15:37] <fritsch> then there is "Bob and Deinterlace" <- be careful with them, those cause a SSE copy and either deint in render (GL) or via ffmpeg's yadif on the cpu
[15:38] <fritsch> they switch the "path" in vaapi automatically, as told on github with the Prefer VAAPI-Output
[15:38] <fritsch> which was the last line you got? :-)
[15:38]  * bschaefer froze
 you don't want to deinterlace progressive content
[15:38] <bschaefer> sometimes devices like to fight when running two display serves
[15:38] <bschaefer> servers*
[15:39] <fritsch> 16:37 < fritsch> http://solidrun.maltegrosse.de/~fritsch/
[15:39] <fritsch> 16:37  * bschaefer checks the scaler
[15:39] <fritsch> 16:37 < fritsch> here are some samples I used when developing IMX6 support
[15:39] <fritsch> 16:37 < fritsch> the 1080i50 should show something else, preferable VAAPI-MCDI
[15:39] <fritsch> 16:38 < fritsch> then there is "Bob and Deinterlace" <- be careful with them,  those cause a SSE copy and either deint in render (GL) or via  ffmpeg's yadif on the cpu
[15:39] <fritsch> sorry :-)
[15:39] <bschaefer> o sweet yeah missed all that!
[15:40] <bschaefer> right after i said checks the scaler i dropped :)
[15:40] <fritsch> btw. something for ubuntu: there is only one render node by default
[15:41] <bschaefer> fritsch, yeah youre right linear/bi
[15:42] <bschaefer> even when theres multiple gpus?
[15:42]  * bschaefer use to have a laptop that had two
[15:43] <fritsch> i think he is not correct
[15:43] <fritsch> as the dma_buf is a kernel infrastructure
[15:43] <bschaefer> yeah x11 has the lanczo3 scaler
[15:43] <bschaefer> not mir
[15:43] <fritsch> it is just used as a zero copy
[15:43] <fritsch> interface
[15:44] <bschaefer> yeah reading that link you put (which clearly states its not a 1to1)
[15:44] <bschaefer> its like that for legacy reasons
[15:44] <fritsch> which one was that?
[15:44] <bschaefer> "It’s also important to know that render-nodes are not bound to a specific card. "
[15:44] <bschaefer> https://dvdhrm.wordpress.com/tag/drm/
[15:44] <bschaefer>  Instead, if user-space requires hardware-acceleration, it should open any node and use it.
[15:45]  * bschaefer would still like better documentation on render nodes, since i had a hard time finding the *real* number after renderD<num>
[15:46] <bschaefer> found some kernel usage of 128->128+16 soo i assumed but still didnt find any real manual pae
[15:46] <bschaefer> page*
[15:46] <fritsch> yeah, try to link him that thingy above if you want to get into a discussion
[15:46] <fritsch> in fact he is not right
[15:46] <fritsch> :-)
[15:46] <fritsch> but I gave up
[15:47] <bschaefer> "Yes, driver-specific user-space can figure out whether and which render-node was created by which driver, but driver-unspecific user-space should never do that!"
[15:47] <bschaefer> but kodi *is* not driver specific
[15:47] <bschaefer> soo it *shouldnt* matter
[15:47] <fritsch> jep
[15:47] <fritsch> cite that and see what happens :-)
[15:50] <bschaefer> done! But yeah I was going to poke RAOF later (which he knows far to many things...)
[15:50] <bschaefer> and hopefully can confirm the same... I can try to find more documentation or just read the kernel code
[15:53] <bschaefer> fritsch, so if im comparing against X11 and Mir doesnt support lanczos3 it seems unfair
[15:53] <bschaefer> to test them against each other using different scalers
[15:56] <fritsch> you needed to port the GL code of lanczos3 to the EGL render
[15:56] <fritsch> you can do differently
[15:56] <fritsch> mmh, nope you can't
[15:56] <bschaefer> haha, yeah something to *do* later
[15:57] <fritsch> concerning the render nodes
[15:57] <fritsch> just open two mirs
[15:57] <fritsch> and two kodis
[15:57] <fritsch> i say: both work fine, as the EGL ctx decides
[15:57]  * bschaefer shutters at resampling for rewriting some of those bits for touch events
[15:57] <fritsch> no matter which render node in use
[15:58] <bschaefer> fritsch, thats the things about render nodes though, they are unprivileged and allow for rendering on it with out any auth magic
[15:58] <bschaefer> (from my reading at lease)
[15:58]  * bschaefer can try to open two mir servers in kms and see what happens never really did that
[15:58] <fritsch> you can also just run kodi twice
[15:58] <fritsch> and see what happens
[15:58] <bschaefer> o true
[15:59] <fritsch> cause, consider the use case: video playback, someone comes via ssh
[15:59] <fritsch> and transcodes his video
[15:59] <fritsch> both must work
[15:59] <fritsch> :-)
[15:59] <bschaefer> fritsch, yeah no issues
[16:00] <bschaefer> with two kodis one 1 mir server
[16:02] <fritsch> bschaefer: yeah, a nice screenshot would also help
[16:02] <fritsch> that proves: the EGL ctx
[16:02] <fritsch> decides
[16:02] <fritsch> and the render node is just "below"
[16:02] <fritsch> and even copes with two processes
[16:05] <bschaefer> fritsch, like http://i.imgur.com/fEsKY5p.jpg?
[16:06] <fritsch> play a different video :-)
[16:06] <fritsch> in one of the windows
[16:06] <bschaefer> haha true
[16:06] <fritsch> but yeah, it's obvious already
[16:06] <fritsch> nice - two times 60 fps
[16:07] <fritsch> or open the "o" dialogue on one
[16:07] <bschaefer> o right
[16:09] <bschaefer> fritsch, http://i.imgur.com/0cEq880.jpg
[16:09]  * bschaefer needs a different 60pfs video
[16:09] <fritsch> hehe
[16:09] <fritsch> really fine
[16:16] <bschaefer> fritsch, also there was nothing else needed to be done on the mir branch it self?
[16:26] <ogra_> bschaefer, FYI  https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/+snap/kodi-mir-snapshot ...  (but i cant get it to run )
[16:27] <ogra_> (and arm64 is completely unknown to the kodi build system it seems)
[16:27] <bschaefer> ogra_, sweet! You cant get it to run because raspi?
[16:27] <bschaefer> or you're trying on the dragon board? I can imagine...
[16:27] <ogra_> i cant get it to run on qemu either ...
[16:27] <bschaefer> :(
[16:27] <ogra_> no, dragonboard is arm64 ... that doesnt build
[16:28] <ogra_> well, its a start ...
[16:28] <bschaefer> ogra_, https://github.com/asciper/KodiDragonboard410c
[16:28] <ogra_> on the pi i have no mir-libs
[16:28] <bschaefer> err i ment arm64
[16:28] <ogra_> oh, cool
[16:28]  * bschaefer hopes that *might* have some patches to make it work
[16:28] <bschaefer> ive yet to dig to deep into that branch
[16:29] <bschaefer> it adds an arch64 though
[16:29] <ogra_> yeah, there are quite some changes to WinSystemX11.cpp
[16:29] <bschaefer> soo hopefully thats whats missing
[16:29] <ogra_> i guess the mir one would need them too
[16:29]  * bschaefer looks
[16:30] <bschaefer> ogra_, hmm looks like it just reports errors
[16:30] <ogra_> looking at https://github.com/asciper/KodiDragonboard410c/blob/master/patches/ubuntu/0001-Patch-for-DragonBoard410c-Kodi-build.patch
[16:30] <bschaefer> more so
[16:30] <bschaefer> yeah
[16:30] <bschaefer> diff --git a/xbmc/windows/GUIWindowSystemInfo.cpp b/xbmc/windows/GUIWindowSystemInfo.cpp
[16:30] <bschaefer> that *may* be needed
[16:31] <ogra_> anyway, i have the snaps but cant run them, there seems to be no armhf mir-libs in the store
[16:31] <bschaefer> pretty much ill need to go through and find any define for __arm__ and and __aarch64__
[16:31] <bschaefer> ogra_, dang and alberto is out until nov 22
[16:31] <bschaefer> or 21st
[16:31] <ogra_> same for me (theoretically) ... i'm alread on vacation ;)
[16:31] <bschaefer> :)
[16:31]  * bschaefer is just messing with kodi upstream patchs soo no real work today!
[16:32] <bschaefer> ogra_, thanks for testing that and getting a snap on launchpad!
[16:32] <ogra_> well, there is still a lot work ahead i guess ... but its a start
[16:33] <bschaefer> yeah i agree
[16:33] <ogra_> (despite a horribly hackish one)
[16:33] <bschaefer> ogra_, o also got vaapi working
[16:33] <bschaefer> for mir
[16:33] <bschaefer> soo thats good
[16:33] <bschaefer> using the DRM + EGL backend + Render Nodes
[16:33] <ogra_> nice
[16:33] <ogra_> (not much helpful for pi3 though ... which is what i'm after)
[16:33] <bschaefer> :( you mentioned that needed a kernel driver?
[16:34] <ogra_> but i guess there getting mir at all up is the biggest blocker
[16:34] <bschaefer> for actually getting mir working?
[16:34] <bschaefer> yeah :)
[16:34] <ogra_> well, tvoss and ppisati seem to work on that
[16:34] <bschaefer> cool, we can assume it'll be done eventually :)
[16:34] <ogra_> but i dont know any current status
[16:34] <bschaefer> ogra_, do you use lxd or pbuilder or chroot for arm64?
[16:35]  * bschaefer should get something setup for testing at lease vs the dragon board directly
[16:35] <ogra_> after an initial bringu i tend to rely on launchpad
[16:35] <ogra_> native and really fast ...
[16:35] <bschaefer> that works as well!
[16:35] <bschaefer> cool, and thanks again! Enjoy your vacation :)
[16:36] <ogra_> :)
[16:36] <ogra_> well, i'll surely tinker around during it :)
[16:43] <fritsch> bschaefer: nope all fine I think, squash the relevant commits together and keep it standing there
[16:43] <bschaefer> fritsch, o so its bad to have like 20 commits? Wouldnt it all be merged into one when it gets pulled into xbmc?
[16:44] <fritsch> nope
[16:45] <fritsch> you can decide what you want to squash before hand
[16:45] <fritsch> it needs to be: bisectable after squashing
[16:45] <bschaefer> well ill just squash into one commit Mir windowing system
[16:45]  * bschaefer will look into that
[16:45] <fritsch> commits "fitting together" need to be squashed
[16:45] <bschaefer> hmm "fitting together?"
[16:45] <fritsch> example:
[16:46] <fritsch> Vaapi: 2 changes, LinuxRenderGLES: 3 changes
[16:46] <fritsch> the vaapi fixes is feature + squash for feature => squash the two commits
[16:46] <fritsch> for linux render, 1 bugfix and one new feature in 2 commits
[16:46] <fritsch> squash the 2 commits into one
[16:46] <fritsch> and leave the bugfix separated
[16:47] <fritsch> in your case: squash everything together that implements only MIR
[16:47] <bschaefer> o ok that makes sense
[16:47] <bschaefer> yeah
[16:47] <fritsch> if there was bugfixes for generic code, leave those as is
[16:47] <bschaefer> since its a feature + no bug fixes since it wasnt around before :)
[16:47] <fritsch> yeah
[16:47]  * bschaefer doesnt think he fixed anything for xbmc in this branch
[16:49] <fritsch> btw. rethinking the GPU1 and GPU2 scenario
[16:49] <fritsch> that scenario would be: intel gpu1, amd gpu2
[16:49] <fritsch> cause neither nvidia nor fglrx support dma_buf (GPL)
[16:50] <fritsch> so that would mean, you need to use the intel gpu1 for processing (as gpu2 would not do vaapi anyways)
[16:50] <bschaefer> thats a more realistic example
[16:50] <fritsch> now you needed to display on gpu2, which is AMD
[16:50] <fritsch> but - this card does not support the R8G8 mesa extension
[16:50] <fritsch> :-)
[16:50] <fritsch> so, figure
[16:51] <fritsch> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/10/11/1918251/alan-cox-to-nvidia-you-cant-use-dma-buf <- nvidia
[16:51]  * bschaefer trying to figure out *when* a render node is allowed to open
[16:51] <bschaefer> anytime?
[16:51] <bschaefer> i assume so
[16:51] <fritsch> and something else:
[16:51] <fritsch> there won't be two heads active
[16:52] <fritsch> even not in a laptop
[16:52] <fritsch> so the given code neither runs on amdgpu as of now via vaapi
[16:52] <fritsch> and with nvidia it would make zero sense, that you choose the nvidia rendernode
[16:52] <fritsch> as that is not vaapi capable
[16:52] <bschaefer> true, i think that branch is a step forward (ie. it does everything that is currently supported)
[16:53] <bschaefer> from what i understand
[16:53] <fritsch> yeah
[16:53] <bschaefer> i suppose possibly more voices will come through in a few days
[16:53] <fritsch> there is only exactly one "problem"
[16:53] <fritsch> gpu1 decodes via vaapi
[16:53] <fritsch> gpu2 would be needed to display and would support R8G8 dma_buf sharing
[16:53] <fritsch> what would not happen, that's the only case I see a problem with
[16:54] <fritsch> cause for now - we fail much earlier
[16:54] <fritsch> and there are simple not two intel gpus
[16:54] <fritsch> you cannot just "stick" 2 of them into your computer
[16:54] <bschaefer> i suppose for ... imagining sake. *if* there were two active GPUs
[16:54] <bschaefer> it *shouldnt* matter from what im reading... render nodes *do not* 1to1 to a card
[16:54] <fritsch> if there were, both need to support dma_buf and both need the mesa RG8 extension
[16:54] <fritsch> jep, they don't
[16:54] <bschaefer> for legacy reasons render nodes are create per device
[16:55] <bschaefer> does not mean they map 1to1
[16:55] <bschaefer> 1toany is more like it
[16:55] <fritsch> dma_buf is a kernel API
[16:55] <fritsch> it does not matter which gpu is rendering
[16:55] <fritsch> as long as it supports dma_buf and the extension to create the image
[16:55] <fritsch> yeah, take your time to reply ...
[16:55] <fritsch> :-)
[16:55] <fritsch> getting popcorn
[16:55] <bschaefer> its kind of misleading to be honest and i was thinking about the same :)
[16:56] <bschaefer> im going to wait a bit
[16:56] <bschaefer> as, i dont think that paper helped sway his point of view
[16:57] <fritsch> yeah
[16:58] <bschaefer> as this point, i mean ill need a concrete example to convince which i dont have the hardware atm :)
[16:58] <bschaefer> at this point*
[16:58] <fritsch> there is no such hw combination
[16:58] <fritsch> for what he is asking
[16:59] <fritsch> as there is no GPU besides intel that has this support: https://github.com/BrandonSchaefer/xbmc/blob/6a668e62f15c8114cb43585af8760ed7a42d01dd/xbmc/cores/VideoPlayer/DVDCodecs/Video/VAAPI.cpp#L1285
[16:59] <bschaefer> a mythical device
[17:00] <fritsch> he might come up with - then let's share with RGBA ...
[17:01]  * bschaefer doesnt actually fully understand that code :)
[17:01] <bschaefer> as i understand it, you get a raw decoded image
[17:01] <fritsch> it's quite easy
[17:01] <bschaefer> from vaapi then copy it
[17:01] <bschaefer> (into a texture then render?)
[17:01] <fritsch> you tell vaapi to derive an image
[17:01] <fritsch> use that via vaAcquiteBufferHandle
[17:02] <fritsch> and now create an egl image of it
[17:02] <bschaefer> which is just the decoded buffer from the hardware?
[17:02] <fritsch> yeah
[17:02] <fritsch> then the eglCreateImageKHR is used
[17:02] <fritsch> to create Y
[17:02] <fritsch> and VU
[17:02] <fritsch> this is later used in a yuv2rgb shader for display
[17:02] <bschaefer> then just render this through a shader?
[17:02] <fritsch> jep
[17:02] <bschaefer> well that makes sense
[17:02] <bschaefer> and you need EGL_LINUX_DRM_FOURCC_EXT to get that raw image?
[17:03] <fritsch> that's the format we use
[17:03] <fritsch> YUV 8 bit
[17:03] <fritsch> Y -> 8 bit
[17:03] <bschaefer>     This extension allows creating an EGLImage from a Linux dma_buf file   descriptor or multiple file descriptors in the case of multi-plane YUV  images.
[17:03] <fritsch> and UV
[17:03] <bschaefer> right
[17:03] <fritsch> yeah, was created for kodi :-)
[17:03] <bschaefer> otherwise you would have to convert?
[17:03] <bschaefer> o very nice!
[17:03] <fritsch> otherwise we needed to say to vaapi: create a RGBA
[17:04] <fritsch> and 4*8 >> 8 + 2*4 = 16
[17:04] <bschaefer> i suppose the shader could do that... possibly
[17:04] <fritsch> and doing yuv-> RGBA needs an intermediate
[17:04] <fritsch> yeah, but why?
[17:04] <bschaefer> haha yeah :)
[17:04] <bschaefer> better then software
[17:04] <bschaefer> (looking at how bad software was!)
[17:04] <fritsch> I am currently in contact with the intel guys to get RG16 and R16
[17:04] <bschaefer> o nice
[17:05] <fritsch> as their hevc-10 bit is stored in P010 format
[17:05] <fritsch> basically same as NV12
[17:05] <fritsch> but 16 bit and the 10 bits are only relevant
[17:05] <fritsch> so the shader afterwards needs to do something "additional"
[17:05] <fritsch> down dithering for 8 bit rendering
[17:05] <fritsch> and extracting the values
[17:05] <bschaefer> huh its 16 bits but you only use 10
[17:05] <bschaefer> for p010
[17:05] <fritsch> jep
[17:05]  * bschaefer has never heard of that
[17:06] <fritsch> how would you efficently store 10 bit?
[17:06] <fritsch> :-)
[17:06] <fritsch> while still using fast data access?
[17:06] <bschaefer> haha yeah
[17:06] <fritsch> and that way we are ready for 12 bit, 16 bit and so on
[17:06]  * bschaefer would hope to use those extra 5 bits for more data
[17:07] <fritsch> btw. "more data"
[17:07] <fritsch> i hope MIR has something like metadata
[17:07] <fritsch> all that 10 bit to 8 bit
[17:07] <fritsch> limited range to full range
[17:07] <fritsch> just sucks for userspace
[17:07] <fritsch> we would normally juse say: here -> texture / image / whatever -> it is limited range
[17:07] <bschaefer> hmm most pixel formats we have are 32 bit + some 24 bits
[17:07] <fritsch> display it properly
[17:07]  * bschaefer isnt fully sure
[17:07] <fritsch> that's the desktop
[17:07] <fritsch> yes
[17:08] <fritsch> but when doing video we have limited range by default
[17:08] <fritsch> 16 .. 235
[17:08] <fritsch> values
[17:08] <fritsch> if you display them 1:1 on a full rgb display
[17:08] <fritsch> you end up without whites
[17:08] <fritsch> and without blacks
[17:08] <bschaefer> o eww
[17:08] <fritsch> that's why metadata is so important
[17:08] <bschaefer> thats something RAOF would know :)
[17:08] <fritsch> i am quite sure he does
[17:08] <fritsch> now good luck with your reply
[17:08] <bschaefer> haha
[17:09] <bschaefer> thanks
[17:09] <fritsch> afk a bit
[17:09]  * bschaefer does the same
[20:43] <bschaefer> fritsch, also is there interest in support arm64 in kodi? At lease for me there is :)
[20:43] <bschaefer> configure: error: unsupported native build platform: aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu
[20:43] <bschaefer> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/293127083/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_xenial_arm64_kodi-mir-snapshot_BUILDING.txt.gz
[21:38] <bschaefer> ogra_, also you can try cmake vs their autotools.... since they plan on deprecating autotools: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/+junk/xbmc-snap/view/head:/snapcraft.yaml#L48
[21:38] <bschaefer> its commented out (plus you can fix some of the extra options since you've ffmpeg manually)


[08:24] <Kilos> o/
[08:32] <elacheche> o/
[11:30] <ahoneybun> popey: is the CLS fun but also helpful?
[11:30] <ahoneybun> Kilos elacheche o/
[11:34] <Kilos> hi ahoneybun
[11:42] <popey> ahoneybun: I enjoyed it a lot
[14:31] <mhall119> pleia2: ping
[14:31] <mhall119> argh, nevermind, it's late where you are
[14:31] <mhall119> nhaines: ping
[14:33] <pleia2> only 8pm
[14:33] <pleia2> early where he is ;)
[14:36] <mhall119> pleia2: didn't want to bother you, but since you're here, did Dante pay for California's meetup group?
[14:36] <pleia2> yep
[14:36] <mhall119> ok, they were paid by Canonical, but it doesn't look like our pro account has been re-enabled yet :(
[14:36] <pleia2> did nhaines talk to you about it?
[14:37] <mhall119> not yet
[14:37] <pleia2> it was a mistake, this fellow has nothing to do with us
[14:38] <mhall119> oh? Well that's probably not good
[14:38] <pleia2> he just answered the email when it said the group was going away, apparently he was trying to create his own group
[14:38] <pleia2> no, it's very bad
[14:38] <pleia2> he won't give it back because he paid mobey
[14:38] <pleia2> money too
[14:39] <mhall119> does he want to be repaid in order to give it back? Or does he just not want to give it back?
[14:39] <pleia2> repaid
[14:39] <mhall119> ok
[14:39] <pleia2> no ransom, just doesnt want to be out the money he paid
[14:39] <mhall119> understandable, though paying without asking first wasn't a great idea
[14:40] <pleia2> well, it dod send like  emails begging for someobe to pay :(
[14:40] <pleia2> stupid meetup
[14:40] <pleia2> 4 emails
[14:40] <mhall119> yeah, I got them for Florida's group too
[14:40] <mhall119> I think itnet7 has paid for ours now
[14:40] <pleia2> heh
[14:41] <mhall119> and I've only got a billing email address for meetup, but I'll try and figure out what we need to do to resolve this
[14:41] <pleia2> meetup has been nice for reaching more people, but this mess has been such a time sink for me
[14:41] <pleia2> thanks
[14:41] <mhall119> yeah, sorry for that
[14:42] <mhall119> btw, you're making me incredibly jealous with your trip photos
[14:42] <mhall119> the food, the sights, nigelb.....
[14:43] <pleia2> :D
[14:43] <pleia2> it's great here
[17:56] <mhall119> pleia2: (if you're still awake) and nhaines: I spoke to a meetup.com rep and was told that Dante has been refunded his money. If that's not enough for him to give the group back to the loco team, please let me know and I'll take further action
[23:53] <whalenjerry> hello
[23:54] <whalenjerry> any body know how to run directv player on 14.10?
[23:56] <wxl> whalenjerry: this channel is really only for discussion related to the subject of creating and maintaining lococouncil.
[23:56] <wxl> whalenjerry: for software support, as the topic reads, see #ubuntu, etc.
[23:57] <wxl> whalenjerry: however, 14.10 is EoL and unsupported https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2015-July/000197.html
[23:57] <whalenjerry> so you think i need to go 16
[23:58] <wxl> i think it would be a good idea if you want the latest security updates and if you want to be using a supported release
[23:58] <whalenjerry> what do you guys try to tackle here?
[23:59] <wxl> local communities of ubuntu users
[23:59] <wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams


[04:06]  * flyback- gives franken-laptop for his bedside another try
[04:09]  * flyback- starts to consider selling the 10 or so old lvds tft lcd's he has from dead laptops
[05:04] <hpuser2323> What USB sound cards are known to work with Lubuntu 12.04?
[05:08] <hpuser2323> Also my LCD has dimmed and I can't brighten it. Any ideas?
[05:14] <hpuser2323> Looks like creative labs soundblaster is the go.
[05:15] <hpuser2323> in ubuntu anyway.
[05:15] <hpuser2323> later.
[05:54] <hpuser4466> where's the grub menu entry for a full lubuntu install?
[05:54] <hpuser4466> I want to check the kernel line options.
[05:56] <Unit193> You can see some of them in /etc/default/grub
[05:56] <Unit193> You can see more in the generated config file in /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[06:00] <hpuser4466> found /etc/default/grub
[06:00] <hpuser4466> Now, do i add kernel options to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""
[06:01] <hpuser4466> or maybe this line is better:  GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[06:02] <hpuser4466> cause i want to add an acpi power option
[06:03] <Unit193> You edit the file, then rerun update-grub.
[06:04] <hpuser4466> yes, so which line above is best to add a kernel option?
[06:05] <Unit193> I've used both, but since I have one on this computer in default, I'll say that.
[06:05] <Unit193> Don't remember which is technically correct.
[06:06] <hpuser4466> it's OK. I found the answer.
[06:07] <hpuser4466> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""  is used for normal and recovery modes.  That would be best.
[06:07] <hpuser4466> cause i want to add a power option to force my lcd brighter.  Universally.
[06:08] <hpuser4466> And is there is an Xorg file where I can set LCD brightness???
[06:09] <hpuser4466> Lubuntu 12.04 really shuffled the xorg configurations!
[06:11] <Unit193> !xorg.conf
[06:12] <Unit193> Bah, wrong one...
[06:12] <Unit193> !xorgconf
[06:12] <Unit193> Also, default is better since if you mess up, you can fix in recovery.
[06:14] <hpuser4466> where are the default video settings?
[06:14] <hpuser4466> using foss drivers
[06:15] <hpuser4466> or are the settings applied automatically by the system with no user input unless I make an xorg.conf file
[06:16] <Unit193> Generally, it's supposed to auto set things, though you can generate a xorg configuration file and force if something doesn't work.
[06:16] <hpuser4466> OK.  I want to force my LCD to bright.
[06:16] <hpuser4466> my Fn+bright buttons are not working.
[06:16] <Unit193> You should be able to do that with a userspace tool.
[06:17] <hpuser4466> i noticed xrandr.  xbacklight didn't work.
[06:19] <hpuser4466> Thanks for the tips. I'll try the kernel options first, then X.
[07:47] <aoieao> Hello
[08:03] <debug_> Hello, having a problem with live-CD's for the LTE version of Lubuntu (on compaq Evo 600c) and the latest version on Asus EEE1000HD. anyone?
[08:09] <debug_> hmmm
[09:24] <geopack> Hi everyone google earth stops on the splash screen, I think it may be related with graphics drivers since glxgears opens a black empty window...
[09:24] <geopack> how can I solve this please ?
[09:59] <hpuser4466> Can't get buttons working on IBM thinkpad R40e (volume up/down, Fn+brightness)
[10:00] <hpuser4466> i believe the driver involved is thinkpad_acpi
[14:07] <emmjea> I am trying to load lubuntu 12.10 on Sony Vaio Latop, with 40GB HDD, Architecture SiS 648 CPU IntelPentium® 4 processor Processor Speed (Mhz) 2800 L2 Cache (kb) 512 Memory Size (MB) 512 Memory Speed (Mhz) 266 Memory Type DDR - PC2100 (SO-DIMM) have made live CD, have checked it with MD5SUM, all ok, when I boot to this, I go to install lubuntu, select english, then takes 5mins on blue screen, then just goes black, no cursor, error etc
[14:09] <emmjea> live CD, get to "where are you" just hangs on this, no error or further activity.  Even just selecting "try without installing" results in very slow actions, and if I try to shut down, it also hangs? so do not know what else to try?
[18:14] <faflatas> Hello - is there a way of changing the default sound device on the fly ?
[18:17] <holstein> faflatas: i usually just install pulse and use pavucontrol
[18:18] <holstein> faflatas: you might find running "alsamixer" in the terminal lets you do what you want
[18:18] <holstein> !audio
[18:18] <faflatas> holstein: alsamixer doesn't control the default device
[18:18] <holstein> faflatas: what is it controlling?
[18:19] <faflatas> ubottu: Sound works fine with the default device - I am just having trouble with choosing the default device
[18:19] <holstein> what i had in mind was, you can run "alsamixer" and use F6 to "select sound card"
[18:19] <faflatas> holstein: Alsamixer controls sound /microphone volume etc. I've tried it already
[18:19] <faflatas> holstein: No. That just let you choose the settings of that sound card
[18:20] <faflatas> It does not make it the default
[18:20] <holstein> if that is not doing what you want, then that is usually why i just go ahead and install pulse, since advanced routing is one thing pavucontol does
[18:20] <faflatas> hmm
[18:21] <holstein> faflatas: i asked the bot to give you the audio link so you can browse the wiki's for yourself and see if there is something that fits your needs better
[18:21] <faflatas> so pulse is better then alsa right ?
[18:21] <holstein> better is a matter of opinion
[18:21] <holstein> pavucontrol literally is designed to let you "select devices on the fly"
[18:22] <faflatas> hmmm
[18:22] <faflatas> so I have to uninstall alsa first
[18:22] <faflatas> and install pulse ?
[18:22] <holstein> faflatas: pulse runs on alsa
[18:22] <holstein> faflatas: i would relax.. do some reading.. fire up a live CD that is running pulse.. see if it works for you.. and make an informed first-hand decision
[18:23] <holstein> http://ptspts.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-select-alsa-sound-card-and-have.html
[18:23] <faflatas> ok - will do
[18:23] <faflatas> thanks !
[18:23] <holstein> if you have an internal device and you want to use a USB device, sometimes you can set that in the specific application preferences
[18:24] <holstein> OR, just disable the internal card in the bios
[18:24] <holstein> http://alsa.opensrc.org/FAQ026
[18:37] <faflatas> holstein: Just to let you know, I installed pulse, it does exactly what I wanted - thanks!!!!!!!!!
[18:37] <holstein> faflatas: cheers!... it does make some things "easier"
[19:47] <lxde32> what it's better ubuntu or lubuntu
[19:47] <wxl> lxde32: i don't know. are apples or oranges better? :)
[19:47] <lxde32> i want to say if lubuntu it's faster than ubuntu?
[19:48] <wxl> the desktop environment generally requires less resources.
[19:48] <Unit193> It uses a lot less ram, but it's up to you.  Best idea is to try both live CDs, and see for yourself. :)
[19:48] <wxl> it's more lightweight, at least in design.
[19:48] <lxde32> when can i get a live cd
[19:48] <wxl> you can get a live cd any time you want
[19:48] <lxde32> where can i get a live cd?
[19:48] <Unit193> !download
[19:49] <lxde32> thanks


[15:52] <mpt> snwh: keyhole, doorhanger, curtains, velvet rope, pair of hands palms-outward.
[15:52] <snwh> mpt, What are things found in the bedroom?
[15:53] <mpt> You have a velvet rope in your bedroom??
[15:54] <snwh> maybe
[15:55] <mpt> That was in reference to your tweet about metaphors for privacy.
[15:56] <snwh> I know :)
[15:58] <snwh> I thought of a byobu mostly
[15:59] <mpt> The only byobu I know is the terminal utility
[15:59] <mpt> I didn't know it was a real thing
[15:59] <snwh> it's those folding privacy walls
[15:59] <mpt> oh cool
[15:59] <snwh> from japanese culture
[15:59] <mpt> But at icon size they'd probably look just like creased paper
[15:59] <snwh> this is true
[16:01] <snwh> I also thought of fence, do-not-disturb sign, & blindfold


[08:55] <xu-help74w> hello, do you know if there is a version of xubuntu for an old pc with system 32bit?
[08:56] <gnrp> xu-help74w: Unfortunately not. The last version is from 18.04 and that is not supported anymore
[08:56] <guiverc> xu-help74w, the last xubuntu i386 was 19.04 which is EOL; even 18.04 LTS is EOL.  32-bit armhf is possible
[08:57] <Unit193> At this point your best bet is to go with Debian.
[08:57] <guiverc> sorry; s/19.04/18.10   (19.04 was available only in development;alpha stage)
[09:00] <xu-help74w> i already heard about debian os, i think i will read more about that, thanks a lot
[09:01] <diogenes_Vx15> xu-help74w, if it's really old hardware then i'd suggest antiX OS.
[09:01]  * guiverc still has i386 hardware; all using debian except for one 18.04 I've not yet moved across..
[09:01] <Unit193> guiverc: Did you do in place upgrades or re-install?
[09:02] <gnrp> out of curiosity: How old is that i386 hardware?
[09:02] <guiverc> for what?  switch from ubuntu to debian
[09:02] <Unit193> Yeah
[09:02] <guiverc> 2003 thru 2005... (I do have an i386 device from 2007; but rarely use it).   re-install as for switching from ubuntu to debian.
[09:15] <Kuschelpony> as a personal not to @guiverc myself is also still running x386 on two Toughbooks
[09:15] <Kuschelpony> notE
[09:16] <xu-help74w> what is the differents between debian and antiX OS? (talking about the drivers)?
[09:16]  * guiverc smiles
[09:16]  * guiverc made assumption they're using a GNU/Linux, BSD or some sort of FOSS
[09:19] <gnrp> guiverc: Heh, I have to say, I got rid of everything i386. Especially at work. It wasn't even the platform I couldln't deal with, rather the fact that it's all single cores. No clue how I managed to live a single core life back in the days
[09:19] <diogenes_Vx15> xu-help74w, for once antiX is without systemd.
[09:20] <diogenes_Vx15> and it's tailored for limited resources and older hardware.
[09:20]  * guiverc had one dual thread pentium D i386 only ... form factor kept mine alive (why newer box is unused; still has good battery, but keyboard sux)
[09:23] <xu-help74w> ok, thanks for all informations
[14:47] <xubuntu> test
[14:48] <Kuschelpony> test received
[14:48] <xubuntu> impressive :D
[18:14] <xu-help94w> Please can someone tell me in very simple terms how to change the password on the keyring. I forgot my old password to access my computer, managed to change it but am now blocked by the keyring.
[18:40] <rfm> xu-help94w, afaik not possible to change keyring password if you don't know the old one.  best you can do is delete the old keyring and reenter the passwords as needed...
[18:41] <rfm> xu-help94w, https://askubuntu.com/questions/65281/how-to-recover-reset-forgotten-gnome-keyring-password
[18:41] <rfm> xu-help94w, it says gnome-keyring but xubuntu uses same paths...
[18:50] <rfm> xu-help94w, `you disconnected right about the time I answered -- do you need a repeat?
[18:51] <xu-help94w> Sorry if this is duplicate. Can someone please tell me in very simple steps how I can change the keyring password. I forgot my password and managed to change it to get past the xubuntu login screen, but can't open any files because of the keyring.
[18:52] <xu-help94w> Rfm, yes please and apologies
[18:52] <rfm> xu-help94w,  afaik not possible to change keyring password if you don't know the old one.  best you can do is delete the old keyring and reenter the passwords as needed...
[18:53] <rfm> https://askubuntu.com/questions/65281/how-to-recover-reset-forgotten-gnome-keyring-password   shows the file to delete (it says gnome-keyring but xubuntu uses the same path)
[18:53] <xu-help94w> OK thanks. Will that allow me access to files, or will some be completely blocked out
[18:54] <rfm> xu-help94w, it will stop prompting you for the keyring password; files should not be affectedd
[18:55] <xu-help94w> You are a star, thank you so much for your time😀
[18:56] <rfm> I could only do this because I went through the same thing last week...
[20:29] <Guest7> hi, i am looking for xubuntu 20.04 iso download link. their release pages do not have the links as it seems.
[20:30] <Guest7> idk its always a headache to find older versions of ubuntu for some reason.
[20:31] <Guest7> anyone kindly tell me where to look or give a link if your IRC policy allows.
[20:32] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest7, https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/
[20:33] <Guest7> thank you diogenes
[20:33] <diogenes_Vx15> no problem.


 Hi, recently I find that the AC state is wrong in the battery icon
 Could you help me find out how this happens?
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/b5c6cdc1/file_70536.jpg
 I have plugged out the AC power supply, not it still shows plugged in. And the power profile is not switched.
[10:13] <dreamhawk> Oh god so disturbing!! "Open start menu" > Type: "Chrom" (to get the Chromium browser up) > Press Enter > I see the icon for a brief second, then it crashes. Repeat 10 times same result... Firing up a terminal "sudo journalctl -f" to catch eventual error. And do the same procedure as before, but now it started without any issue...
[12:22] <user|47> Hello
[12:23] <user|47> I've been wondering how to fix ubi-partman error, I'm certain that I have disabled secure boot as I've checked it already
[13:04] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:11] <dreamhawk> "kwin_x11[3316]: qt.qpa.xcb: QXcbConnection: XCB error: 3 (BadWindow), sequence: 33644, resource id: 29360837, major code: 18 (ChangeProperty), minor code: 0" -- when trying to fire up Chromium :/
[14:11] <dreamhawk> Whats wrong?
[17:11] <mmikowski> dreamhawk does regular chrome fail in the same way?
[17:12] <mmikowski> I've seen similar with chrome but it works fine. So those messages /might/ be a red herring.
[22:49] <user|80> hola
[22:49] <user|80> como puedo desintlar kubuntu de mi pc y dejar el disco limpio


[01:11] <Calz> charlie-tca: why does the iso of xubuntu is so hard to burn
[01:12] <Calz> i downloaded another one and burned it two times, both with errors
[01:14] <charlie-tca> It might be the site you are downloading from, instead of anything you are doing. Which mirror is it?
[01:15] <Calz> let me see
[01:15] <Calz> i download from the site
[01:15] <Calz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/10.10/release/xubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso
[01:16] <Calz> now i'm trying to down by torrent
[01:16] <Calz> i think that in that way it'll come right
[01:17] <charlie-tca> Okay, that is a good mirror
[01:17] <Calz> hehe
[01:18] <Calz> yeah but i burned two cds with the same error
[01:18] <Calz> so i think that is an iso problem
[02:01] <hiexpo> ? are all the apps that are available in ubuntu available here in x
[02:02] <charlie-tca> If x means xubuntu, yes, since Xubuntu uses the same repositories as Ubuntu
[02:03] <hiexpo> charlie-tca, ok kool just wanted to make sure i will be able to do the same thing in xubuntu that i can in ubuntu
[02:04] <charlie-tca> depends on what you are trying to do. sometimes, you have to work harder to make it happen in xubuntu
[02:04] <hiexpo> charlie-tca, why causes of the xserver
[02:05] <charlie-tca> because Ubuntu makes it very simple for the beginner to use
[02:05] <hiexpo> charlie-tca, ya true   > does compiz work ok under xubuntu
[02:06] <charlie-tca> Not without some effort
[02:06] <charlie-tca> The window manager in Xubuntu does have its own compositor, though, that does not need compiz
[02:07] <hiexpo> charlie-tca, true but linux wasn't suppose to be as easy as they made it in ubuntu
[02:08] <hiexpo> charlie-tca, what does it use ?
[02:08] <charlie-tca> xfwm4
[02:08] <charlie-tca> the xfce window manager
[02:08] <hiexpo> oh ok
[02:10] <hiexpo> ya i ran a live system and it appears to me to be much faster than ubuntu gnome
[02:10] <charlie-tca> Then the installed system would seem like it is super fast
[02:10] <hiexpo> kool
[02:12] <hiexpo> ok well thanx again there charlie-tca gotta do some backups now
[02:13] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[02:14] <charlie-tca> Calz: I thought you said the ubuntu image worked
[02:14] <Calz> yes
[02:14] <charlie-tca> Just install with it. Then install xubuntu-desktop
[02:14] <Calz> i'm using it now
[02:14] <charlie-tca> You can remove the extra stuff following
[02:14] <charlie-tca> !purexfce
[02:14] <Calz> yes i read it in someqhere
[02:15] <charlie-tca> the link there will tell you all about it
[02:15] <Calz> ohhh thanks
[02:15] <Calz> u're very nice guy
[02:15] <charlie-tca> Most of us are
[02:16] <Calz> yeah, they seem just to be sleeping :)
[02:16] <knome> erm
[02:17] <knome> or busy doing other things
[02:17] <Calz> i'll try it tomorrow
[02:17] <Calz> now i'm playing pes 2011
[02:17] <Calz> =B
[02:17] <charlie-tca> We are all volunteers, so we do this in between the work and other stuff
[02:17] <Calz> yeah i imagined that
[02:18] <Calz> i think in sleeping people because it's 00:00 here now and i'm sleepy
[02:20] <knome> weird timezone if it's 00:00 :)
[02:20] <Calz> really
[02:20] <Calz> gmt-3
[02:20] <Calz> if i'm not wrong
[02:20] <knome> gmt-2:20
[02:20] <knome> :P
[02:21] <Calz> srry i didn't get
[02:21] <Calz> hauihih
[02:22] <knome> anyway, bed. it's about 4:20 here...
[02:22] <knome> ->
[02:22] <Calz> yeah it's late
[02:22] <Calz> hauihiuahuiah
[02:23] <Calz> where are u?
[02:23] <Calz> us? canada?
[03:19] <aaulia> hi guys
[03:19] <aaulia> anybody here ?
[05:34] <Gryllida> hi
[05:34] <Gryllida> I installed 'xubuntu-desktop'
[05:34] <Gryllida> What's the command (instead of 'gnome-session') to start the environment?
[06:18] <zc456> xfce4-session
[07:45] <fdsaseemslegit> Good morning afternoon and night,  folks.  Anyone else scared to upgrade to upstart,  because they see it as the beginning of the end.
[12:37] <ljarbinet> anyone with an issue/solution for Latitude6510 display with interl pro video card ?
[12:48] <brot> ljarbinet_: #intel-gfx
[12:51] <pAt_> Hi, is ubuntu one available on xubuntu with Thunar?
[12:52] <brot> pAt_: you can install the ubuntu one client :)
[12:53] <pAt_> brot: thx, and this work with Thunar?
[12:53] <brot> well, the the "ubuntu one" thing is only a folder locally
[12:54] <pAt_> ok, and the synchronizing is working then ?
[14:25] <WhitePelican> is xfce4.8 available somewhere for Maverick?
[14:25] <charlie-tca> not officially
[14:26] <WhitePelican> not even a ppa?
[14:27] <charlie-tca> There is no official backport at this time. There are ppa's. If you wish to trust them to be correct, it is your choice.
[14:28] <WhitePelican> true
[14:28] <WhitePelican> will there ever be official backports?
[14:31] <charlie-tca> that is still being discussed
[14:32] <WhitePelican> ah
[14:33] <WhitePelican> say yes, please
[14:33] <WhitePelican> if i decide to try the ppa, what is the atom in sources.list?
[14:36] <fdsaseemslegit> WhitePelican:  Yes,  please.
[14:38] <WhitePelican> I meant please say yes in the discussion to allow xfce4 for people using Maverick
[14:39] <xGrind> WhitePelican; i'm using xfce 4.8
[14:40] <WhitePelican> how did you get it? did you compile it yourself?
[14:41] <xGrind> WhitePelican; ppa
[14:41] <WhitePelican> and what is the ppa I need to put in sources.list?
[14:42] <xGrind> no
[14:47] <charlie-tca> WhitePelican: If you choose to upgrade, please know any bugs will be reported directly to Xfce, too. We will mark any bugs in lucid and maverick with xfce4.8 invalid
[14:48] <WhitePelican> ok
[14:49] <WhitePelican> I accept the terms :)
[14:51] <WhitePelican> what is the ppa?
[14:54] <Sysi> google?
[14:55] <charlie-tca> I don't have them
[14:55] <WhitePelican> google is useless
[14:57] <fdsaseemslegit> ^Blasphemer
[14:58] <fdsaseemslegit> WhitePelican:  1st result  Xubuntu Team Dev PPA: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa
[14:59] <charlie-tca> that's not to upgrade maverick or lucid to 4.8
[15:00] <Sysi> 4.7 packages, development version
[15:00] <charlie-tca> the latest we have there is 4.7, which is the 4.8 alpha/beta
[15:01] <fdsaseemslegit> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/01/xfce-48-ubuntu-1004-and-1010-ppas.html
[20:49] <pAt_> Hi, will the unity issue in Ubuntu 11.04 affact Xubuntu 11.04 somehow?
[20:49] <charlie-tca> which issue?
[20:50] <pAt_> switching to Unity interface
[20:51] <charlie-tca> no, because Xubuntu does not use gnome or unity
[20:51] <pAt_> thats good news charlie-tca =)
[20:58] <humfers> hello folks.  could someone help with a quick query about *.desktop files not showing up in menus, please?
[21:02] <charlie-tca> sure, version of xubuntu, where did you add the file?
[21:03] <humfers> thanks charlie.. 10.10, and the new *.desktop was placed into /usr/share/applications
[21:06] <charlie-tca> did you copy an existing file or create a new one?
[21:07] <humfers> cp file1.desktop file2.desktop, and then edited file2.desktop to reflect the relevant changes
[21:09] <charlie-tca> might need a logou/login, then. Sometimes the change won't take with out logging in again
[21:09] <humfers> OK, I'll give it a shot.  Thank you for your help.  Much appreciated. :)
[21:10] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[21:10] <humfers> ttfn.
[21:14] <Lord_Rahl> ? I just install xubuntu 10.04 and install the xfce 4.8 PPA (I think). I can not find a mouse tweaker app in xfce Is there one or do I to install one? I find my mouse a little twitchy
[21:18] <Lord_Rahl> nm I found it
[21:44] <pAt_> In Ubuntu's audio settings, you can set the volume more than 100%, up to approx. 150%. Is this in Xubuntu also possible? I couldnj't find a way In the normal audio settings.
[21:45] <charlie-tca> How high above maximum volume is 150%?
[21:45] <charlie-tca> 100% should be the highest possible volume, I don't know if it goes higher, myself
[21:46] <knome> i suppose 150% means that it is made louder, but the quality also is reduced (eg. the 'low' and 'high' sound are cut off)
[21:46] <knome> +s
[21:48]  * Balsaq takes the long way home thru the sparsely populated binary rainforest known as....Xubuntu!
[21:48] <pAt_> yes knome, it is louder then the maximum of xubuntus setting, and I would like to achive this in xubuntu as well.
[21:48] <pAt_> charlie-tca: http://pat.homelinux.org/screen.jpg
[21:48] <knome> pAt_, have you checked all the settings in the mixer? i mean, is 'master' set to as loud as it can be, etc?
[21:49] <pAt_> yes knome, I even used the alsamixer in the commandline
[21:49] <knome> pAt_, do you have pulseaudio installed? try pavucontrol
[21:50] <pAt_> I just have a standard xubuntu installation knome, so I have to install pulseaudio additionally?
[21:51] <knome> no, i think it's installed by default. i don't know if pavucontrol is, though
[21:53] <pAt_> pavucontrol is not installed, I just install it
[21:56] <pAt_> hm, also just up to 100%
[22:09] <jkubota> can anyone tell me how I can change the background of 10.10 login splash screen? I want to change it to the karmic wallpaper
[22:14] <Balsaq> tweaks software will do it jkubota
[22:14] <Balsaq> i believe its called
[22:18] <jkubota> tweaks software?
[22:18] <jkubota> is the name I should be looking for?
[22:26] <knome> jkubota, gdm2setup should be able to do it at least: see section 2] @ http://myubuntublog.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/10-things-to-do-after-installing-maverick/
[22:26] <jkubota> hmm i'll check it out
[22:26] <jkubota> thanks
[22:27] <knome> np
[22:52] <xubuntu124> hola alguna persona que hable español
[22:52] <xubuntu124> ?
[22:52] <TheSheep> !es
[23:30] <welshmen> hi, i was hoping to get some help with a install?
[23:33] <welshmen> i'm trying to get Ubuntu 10.10 installed side by side with Win7. It has copied all of the files and i've put in the user name, password and all that jazz, but the forward button isn't lit for me to click on. I've hit the back button a number of times and than gone forward again but it still won't let me continue
[23:34] <welshmen> any ideas?
[23:34] <charlie-tca> user name must be all small letters, and cannot be "admin"
[23:34] <welshmen> ohhh i see
[23:35] <welshmen> thank you
[23:35] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[23:35] <mantise> Hi
[23:35] <charlie-tca> !hi | mantise
[23:35] <welshmen> i feel silly now , that was so simple
[23:36] <mantise> i just tryed out some diffrent desktops for my ubuntu box.. can i just install/remove as many desktops that i want? without it messing up anything ? programs/desktops ?
[23:36] <charlie-tca> welshmen: It is not explained, how would you know?
[23:36] <mantise> i have now 4 -5 desktops installed, but i now wanna remove the once i dont use, and just keep 2
[23:36] <charlie-tca> mantise: yes, the ???-desktop is a metapackage, you can remove them safely
[23:37] <charlie-tca> It doesn't remove all the packages it installed, though
[23:37] <mantise> charlie-tca: ok, just thru the software manager as i used to install em ?
[23:37] <charlie-tca> I think so
[23:37] <welshmen> i guess i could have tried that or other options?, before running for help at the first road block.
[23:37] <charlie-tca> It doesn't hurt to leave them, either
[23:37] <mantise> charlie-tca: well, when i find xubuntu there, there is some programs checked in the info.. i might remove some programs that came with xubuntu ?
[23:38] <mantise> charlie-tca: ok :)
[23:38] <charlie-tca> nope, not normally, mantise
[23:38] <mantise> charlie-tca: i just dont wanna use any kde programs for example, if i just use gnome and lubuntu desktops :)
[23:39] <charlie-tca> You would have to remove the kde applications individually, then
[23:39] <mantise> ok :)
[23:40] <charlie-tca> You could remove down to gnome only, and then reinstall lubuntu, too
[23:40] <charlie-tca> !puregnome
[23:42] <mantise> omg
[23:42] <mantise> the manuel remove is a spam command :o
[23:43] <mantise> but, i will go remove them, and go with kubuntu and xubuntu only
[23:43] <mantise> then i have an "heavyweight" and a "leightweight" desktop :)
[23:45] <mantise> ubottu: is that way better than doing it from the software manager ?
[23:46] <mantise> lol
[23:46] <mantise> my bad :p
[23:46] <charlie-tca> It helps get all the packages out that don't apply to the Ubuntu installation itself.
[23:47] <charlie-tca> Doing through software manager means you decide which packages to remove


[07:51] <dpm> good morning everyone!
[07:51] <gtriderxc> hi
[07:51] <dpm> hey gtriderxc :)
[08:01] <andrejz> morning :)
[08:27] <TiMiDo> hello guys
[08:27] <TiMiDo> i have a question if i want to take over, for ubuntu, in haw language to who'm do i need to speak with?
[08:28] <gtriderxc> ??
[08:30] <dpm> hi TiMiDo, you'll find all the info you need here:
[08:30] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam
[08:53] <gtriderxc> question:
[08:53] <gtriderxc> "At the heart of Ubuntu’s philosophy is the belief that computing is for everyone. With advanced accessibility tools and hundreds of options like your preferred fonts, color schemes and languages, Ubuntu provides the flexibility to fit real people, whoever they are."
[08:54] <gtriderxc> ubiquity slideshow
[08:54] <gtriderxc> in English there are three lines of text
[08:54] <gtriderxc> once again: in English there are three lines
[08:55] <gtriderxc> !! TWO LINES
[08:55] <ubot4> Factoid 'TWO LINES' not found
[08:55] <gtriderxc> in Polish there will be three lines
[08:56] <gtriderxc> does anybody check if the text in Polish Live CD will be steel on the screen??
[08:57] <gtriderxc> cause in the 10.04 on one screen one of the last line were right at the boarder with no margin
[08:57] <gtriderxc> so are there any limits??
[08:58] <andrejz> @gtriderxc: Design of installer slideshow is probably not done
[08:58] <andrejz> but you might get in contact with the team who is responsible for this and ask about it
[08:59] <gtriderxc> ok i'll try to find 'em
[09:01] <andrejz> otherwise you can simply test it and see if it works or not. if it doesn't then you send a bug report
[09:01] <andrejz> i our case the button "Try Ubuntu" was to narrow for our language
[09:02] <andrejz> so i submitted a bug report and it was fixed within a few days
[09:10] <udienz> dpm: are you there?
[09:11] <udienz> dpm: about master plan, it mean that "The purpose what he/she do"
[09:12] <udienz> not much, only one paragraph
[09:12] <udienz> i currently deffered gary because he won't send an emails
[09:13] <udienz> in Ubuntu-l10n-id tradition, we must send an email contain planning which package want to translate
[09:13] <udienz> or choosing package priority
[09:15] <udienz> since i take control ubuntu-l10n, 3 person accepted
[09:15] <udienz> all sending emails
[09:16] <gtriderxc> "otherwise you can simply test it and see" You mean I'm able to download the slideshow??
[09:20] <dpm> hi udienz. Thanks for the clarification. Do you think you could send him another e-mail, though? I haven't seen the original e-mail, but it seems to me that the "master plan" part was a bit vague. Do you think you could re-send it elaborating on what you want from him? Remember that not everyone is technical or knows about all the translations terminology, so trying to be specific is always best
[09:21] <dpm> udienz, also, is this procedure explained anywhere else? In the wiki or in the team's page?
[09:23] <dpm> gtriderxc, you can test the slideshow in two ways: by testing the Natty ISO (you can do this easily on a virtual machine or in a USB stick) or by testing the translations directly on the slideshow:
[09:23] <dpm> http://dylanmccall.blogspot.com/2010/11/using-ubiquity-slideshow-for-loco.html
[09:23] <udienz> dpm: i send email to him twice https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-l10n-id/msg00014.html
[09:23] <udienz> dpm: yes from this page https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-id
[09:24] <gtriderxc> thx
[09:24] <udienz> dpm: old admin tells me to not approve a person without sending email first
[09:24] <dpm> gtriderxc, here are the instructions to test on a USB: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallUSBKey
[09:25] <dpm> udienz, I think what you are doing is good practice, I was just wondering if the information is clear enough (I cannot read indonesian, I can only use google translate)
[09:26] <dpm> On the page it says just to send an e-mail, it does not say anything about a "master plan" or what the contents of the e-mail should be:
[09:26] <dpm> "Please send your email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if you won't send confirmation your application will be IGNORED! Thank you for joining the team..."
[09:27] <dpm> I think it would be a good idea to make this message more clear, explaining briefly what you are expecting people to write on the e-mail
[09:27] <dpm> I would also make it more friendly
[09:27] <dpm> "if you won't send confirmation your application will be IGNORED!"
[09:27] <udienz> dpm: but in indonesian already says called "rencana yang ingin Anda lakukan"
[09:27] <dpm> That would definitely not make the team attractive to me
[09:28] <dpm> (that IGNORED message)
[09:28] <udienz> dpm: okay, i will editting it
[09:29] <gtriderxc> I prefer V mashines rather. I do already have 11.04 on one of them
[09:29] <dpm> gtriderxc, sure, whatever you prefer :)
[09:29] <dpm> udienz, here's what google translator returns me:
[09:29] <dpm> http://translate.google.cat/?hl=ca&tab=wT#id|en|Selamat%20mampir%20di%20Tim%20Penterjemah%20Ubuntu%20Indonesia%2C%20dan%20bagi%20Anda%20yang%20ingin%20bergabung%20disini%20silakan%20kirimkan%20email%20ke%20ubuntu-l10n-id%40lists.launchpad.net%20dan%20sertakan%20rencana%20yang%20ingin%20Anda%20lakukan%20di%20Tim%20Penterjemah%20Ubuntu%20Indonesia.%0A%0A%3D%3D%20Semua%20Calon%20anggota%20HARUS%20mengirimkan%20email%20ke%20alamat%20diatas%2C%20atau%2
[09:29] <dpm> 0permohonan%20anda%20akan%20DITOLAK%20%3D%3D%0A%0APanduan%20bagi%20para%20penerjemah%3A%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ubuntu-id.org%2FLaunchpad%2FMelakukanTerjemahan%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F10s6Sa
[09:30] <dpm> err, well that kind of failed :)
[09:30] <udienz> :)
[09:30] <dpm> :-)
[09:31] <dpm> what I wanted to say was that the translated text says something along the lines of "please send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and include the plan you want to do in Ubuntu Indonesian Translators Team"
[09:31] <dpm> If I were someone new who wants to join the Indonesian translations community, I'd be a bit confused by the "include the plan you want to do" part
[09:32] <dpm> (I know google translate does not give an accurate translation, but you get an idea of what I mean)
[09:32] <dpm> I'd suggest:
[09:32] <dpm> * elaborate (briefly) on that part
[09:32] <dpm> * Make the "== All Candidates MUST send an email to the address above, or your application will be DENIED ==" message more friendly
[09:33] <dpm> hi happyaron, are you around?
[09:34] <happyaron> dpm: yes, I am
[09:36] <dpm> hi :) someone forwarded me a message yesterday regarding IME packages, and I saw they were mentioning you and you were on the CC list. However, I cannot quite figure out what the Debian guy wants. Do you know what went on there? (you can reply to me in a private message if you prefer)
[09:37] <happyaron> no need of using private message, :)
[09:37] <udienz> dpm: updated now, thanks!
[09:38] <happyaron> He was CC'ing me, lidaobing - we are maintaining two major IME packages in Debian, and mdz - from Ubuntu
[09:41] <happyaron> We just did something not perfect for Debian Squeeze, so he would like to notice us about the fact we need to know, so we won't miss Debian 7.0. The sender is a Debian Developer, and as far as I know I am the only one still in NM process - Li and mdz are already DDs. The sender has another thought about developer from Ubuntu should also respect Debian release - by doing the correct thing while uploading.
[09:42] <happyaron> IME is the topic we've discussed, about ibus's PYTHONPATH
[09:42] <happyaron> and fcitx's removal
[09:43] <happyaron> That's all.
[09:43] <dpm> thanks udienz. Looking at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-id, though, what I meant was that if you could elaborate more on the "explain what your plan if you joining this team". "your plan" is very vague. I'd suggest something along the lines of "explain us a bit about yourself and the applications you'd like to translate". Also the "== All Candidates MUST send an email to the address above, or your application will be DENIED ==" message does n
[09:43] <dpm> ot look very friendly to me. I'd recommend not using all caps for community communication. Finally, I'd also recommend writing the text in Indonesian, as the target are new Indonesian translators. I hope you understand I'm not trying to be picky, I'm just trying to help
[09:45] <dpm> happyaron, thanks for the clarification. What do you think we should do from the Ubuntu side? Do you think pointing him to the #debian-ubuntu IRC channel would be a good start?
[09:46] <udienz> dpm: ok, i'll updating again
[09:46] <dpm> udienz, awesome, thanks
[09:47] <happyaron> dpm: Not needed, I think. He just thought we were neglecting Debian, and would like us to do correct thing to make Debian Squeeze has good IMEs
[09:48] <dpm> happyaron, he's probably expecting a reply from the Ubuntu side, and it would be polite from us to send it, though. In the benefit of Debian-Ubuntu relations, what do you think we could tell him?
[09:49] <happyaron> It is probably a common problem of Ubuntu developers start working for Debian, they are familiar with Ubuntu's release process, but doesn't know what should be done.
[09:50] <happyaron> dpm: Well, personally I think only mdz in the recipient should consider a Ubuntu Developer (packaging), I don't know whether we'd ask him to send replies.
[09:51] <happyaron> I noticed the sender continues CC'ing mdz even when he cut down the CC list and try to discuss fcitx with me.
[09:52] <dpm> happyaron, I'm not sure I understand what you mean in the "should consider a Ubuntu Developer (packaging)" part. mdz has asked if we could look into this, that's also why I'm asking
[09:53] <happyaron> mdz starts to working on Ubuntu first, and he become a Debian Developer after he was already contribute to Ubuntu a lot.
[09:54] <happyaron> Other people in the CC list (including me) doesn't maintain any package directly in Ubuntu.
[09:54] <dpm> oh, I see
[09:55] <dpm> ok, thanks for the clarification happyaron, that gives me the context I needed :)
[09:55] <happyaron> :)
[10:00] <dpm> happyaron, there is one thing I don't understand. Howcome does he think mdz is the package maintainer in Ubuntu? Looking at e.g. http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/ibus-anthy, the package maintainer is "Ubuntu Core Developers"
[10:03] <happyaron> Ubuntu usually set package maintainer to a team, for example "Ubuntu Core Developers", "Ubuntu MOTU Developers", "Ubuntu Kernel Team", "Ubuntu Desktop Team", etc. Even the "Maintainer" field doesn't have an @ubuntu.com email, the package lint tool will return warnings.
[10:05] <happyaron> Looking at mdz's Launchpad profile, he is a member of ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-archive teams, so he has almost full access to almost any package in Ubuntu repository
[10:07] <dpm> happyaron, yeah, I know that, but that does not mean he's the maintainer. It could have been anyone in the core dev team. In any case, that answers my question, thanks!
[10:10] <happyaron> dpm: :)
[10:13] <udienz> dpm: currently i'm working to fixing bug 514401
[10:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 514401 in checkbox (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Translations are not loaded for the test descriptions in Checkbox (affects: 1) (heat: 13)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514401
[10:13] <dpm> udienz, ah, yes I saw that, that's awesome!
[10:14] <dpm> udienz, and good work on the team info at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-id, it looks so much better now
[10:14] <udienz> dpm: and thannks for your suggestions
[10:14] <dpm> no worries :)
[10:15] <dpm> udienz, did you find the root cause? AFAIK, Gabor's patch improved the situation, but he said it didn't yet solve the issue
[10:17] <udienz> dpm: following last review Gabor's patch works wellbut cannot merge to maverick
[10:17] <udienz> because it can break translations
[10:18] <dpm> udienz, right, good point. I think having it in Natty would be a big improvement already. So have you tried if now translations are properly loaded?
[10:21] <udienz> dpm: not yet, but if i try to load this page https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/checkbox/+pots/checkbox/es/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Fingerprint+login+verification+procedure
[10:21] <dpm> udienz, also, if you've got any questions on checkbox, I'd suggest talking to cr3 on #ubuntu-devel, he's the developer (he'll be up in a few hours)
[10:21] <udienz> still happen in natty
[10:21] <udienz> dpm: ok
[11:11] <udienz> dpm: http://imagebin.org/128148 it works!
[11:12] <dpm> udienz, awesome \o/
[11:12] <dpm> good work!
[11:13] <dpm> udienz, I see you are not using an Indonesian version of Ubuntu there? :P
[11:14] <udienz> dpm: yesterday i change my language because i have problem with packaging :D
[11:14] <dpm> hehehe
[11:40] <gtriderxc> "OpenOffice.org is fully compatible with Microsoft Office and has everything you need to create professional documents, spreadsheets and presentations. OpenOffice.org is easy to use, packed with the features you need and completely free."
[11:40] <gtriderxc> I heard that there's gonna be no open office in 11.04??
[11:41] <andrejz> yes that's the plan
[11:41] <andrejz> these strings should change before 11.04 is relaeased
[11:41] <andrejz> maybe you should report it to the team (either slideshow or documentation i don't know what you are looking at), so they don't forget
[11:42] <andrejz> in a similar fashion F-spot was changed by Shotwell in the slideshow in the last moment
[11:42] <gtriderxc> slideshow
[11:44] <gtriderxc> ok
[14:12] <gtriderxc> A Polish translation sugestion for Natty: "Thank you for choosing Ubuntu 10.10. This version brings some " :))
[14:22] <dpm> good thing it was a suggestion only, and not an actual translation then ;)
[14:33] <gtriderxc> but actually "Thank you for choosing Ubuntu 10.10. This version brings some exciting changes including a new sound menu, the Shotwell photo manager and features that make it even easier to find and install new software. While Ubuntu is installed, this slideshow will show you around." ain't suitable for 11.04 anymore. will there be a new  sound menu??
[14:34] <gtriderxc> i think it is a lil bit to early for translating the ubiquity slideshow
[15:50] <dpm> Translators and everyone else, if you want to learn more about Ubuntu translations and ask your questions, join me in 15 minutes at the Ubuntu Translations videocast:
[15:50] <dpm> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ubuntu-translations-with-david-planella
[15:50] <dpm> :-)
[16:33] <Andre_Gondim> dpm, I can't stay to the end, sorry
[17:05] <dpm> Andre_Gondim, no worries, thanks for participating!
[17:05] <dpm> and thanks to everyone else!


[12:15] <doko> lamont: will be demoted to universe, if that helps
[12:18] <jbailey> Demoting lamont?  Say it's not so!
[12:21] <lamont> jbailey: sigh
[12:21] <doko> "if that helps" =)
[12:21] <jbailey> doko: It would mean less work for him to do. =)
[12:22] <lamont> doko: it's more that once gcj-4.0 builds on i386, then libgcj6 becomes uninstallable on any architecture that's not done building it yet
[12:22] <lamont> at least, every time you bump the versioned depend on libgcj-common
[12:22] <doko> jbailey: just send you email about glibc on powerpc
[12:22] <lamont> that's actually more of an archive issue than a doko issue, but it's more fun to blame doko
[12:22] <doko> lamont: good hint, will fix that
[12:22] <jbailey> doko: Cool, thanks.
[12:23] <lamont> doko: the issue is that libgcj-common is arch: all
[12:23] <doko> lamont: can you get some hppa guys to fix the java thing?
[12:23] <jbailey> doko: Just on the phone with a customer.  I haven't looked at your email yet, sorry. =(
[12:23] <lamont> and the archive stuff drops earlier versions of it, even though arch: foo still needs it, since there's a newer package of that name.
[12:23] <lamont> doko: I think someone is working on it, but dunno with what speed.
[12:23] <lamont> what exactly is the failure?
[12:23] <lamont> or issue
[12:24] <doko> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/pipermail/parisc-linux/2006-February/028428.html
[12:25] <doko> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/pipermail/parisc-linux/2006-February/028439.html
[12:25] <doko> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/pipermail/parisc-linux/2006-March/028470.html
[12:26] <lamont> -Wl,-soname -Wl,liba1.so.0
[12:27] <lamont> it had email yesterday, so that's a good sign
[12:29] <jbailey> doko: So it *doesn't* do it on Ubuntu now?
[12:34] <doko> no, don't ask me why ... I did repeat both test-suites on the same machine (Power5)
[12:35] <doko> lamont: what exactly is the problem with libgcj-common? there is no versioned dependency on it
[12:43] <jbailey> doko: It can still be discrepancies between the glibc on Debian and the one in Ubuntu.
[12:43] <jbailey> They're using gcc-4 in Debian, they have some extra patches and such.
[12:43] <jbailey> Because of the Dapper lifecycle, I've tried to be *really* conservative.
[12:43] <jbailey> The excitement starts for us the day after Dapper releases.
[12:43] <jbailey> MWAHAHAHAHAHA
[12:43] <doko> yes, seems to be a good decision ...
[12:44] <jbailey> Well, ideally a week before so that all new things in 6.10 get build with gcc-4.1, glibc-2.4.
[12:44] <jbailey> I argued with drow a bit about this, I didn't think it was a good decision for Debian either.
[01:00] <lamont> gcj-4.0-base Depends: libgcj-common (>= 4.0.2-8) bu t4.2.0-7ubuntu3 is to be installed
[01:00] <lamont> or something like that
[01:14] <doko> lamont: that's an unversioned dependency now, but honestly I didn't expect hppa that far behind ...
[06:26] <lamont> doko: hppa has been offline (and remains so) ever since the switch to soyuz.  I'm hoping that we get buildd's online in the DC sometime in the next week or so.
[11:57] <doko> fabione, infinity: cmov is everywhere, even in hoary in sarge, looking further ...
[12:50] <infinity> doko: <blink>.. You'd think we would have had complaints before now if it was actually causing a problem...
[12:59] <doko> infinity: we do have the kernel emulation for it turned on?
[01:02] <infinity> I have no idea if there even is kernel emulation for it.
[01:02] <infinity> But Sarge users (many of whom are custom-kernel-compiling types) would be screaming if Sarge didn't work on the old C3..
[01:02] <infinity> So maybe we're not seeing what we think we're seeing here.


[13:09] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 Hello guys.
 I want to increase my swap size (at the moment it is 16GB).
 I think I should decrease my ext4 partition, and relocate the unallocated space to swap partition.
 But I cannot decrease (or even increase) my ext4 partition size.
 Is there any help?
 Hello guys.
 I want to increase my swap size (at the moment it is 16GB).
 I think I should decrease my ext4 partition, and relocate the unallocated space to swap partition.
 But I cannot decrease (or even increase) my ext4 partition size.
 Is there any help?
 Kubuntu 20.04
 Hello guys.
 I want to increase my swap size (at the moment it is 16GB).
 I think I should decrease my ext4 partition, and relocate the unallocated space to swap partition.
 But I cannot decrease (or even increase) my ext4 partition size (I tried GParted).
 Is there any help?
 Kubuntu 20.04
[14:53] <tomreyn> AliPharzaneh: why do you want to increase your swap size above 16 GB? how much physical memory (RAM) is installed?
 # man resize2fs | grep -A1 'shrink an ext2'
        If  you  wish  to shrink an ext2 partition, first use resize2fs to shrink the size of filesystem.  Then you may use fdisk(8) to shrink the size of the partition.  When shrinking the size of the partition, make sure you do not
[14:55] <tomreyn> AliPharzaneh: this would post your partition tables for others to look at:    sudo fdisk -l | nc termbin.com 9999
        make it smaller than the new size of the ext2 filesystem!
 I hardly doubt that online-shrinking is possible, you may need to boot from a 'LIVE-ISO' and do it from there
[15:50] <Newbie9> Hi All. My discover software center has stopped displaying any updates. I am not very good at this but I think this has something to do with the repository/source. Please can someone help. I just want to install pulse effects.
[15:52] <Newbie9> lsb_release -a
[15:52] <Newbie9> No LSB modules are available.
[15:52] <Newbie9> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
[15:52] <Newbie9> Description:    Ubuntu 20.10
[15:52] <Newbie9> Release:        20.10
[15:52] <Newbie9> Codename:       groovy
 Im having the same problem (re @Akshay Jr.: what it means by not having a release file)
[15:57] <Roey> hey in linux does free() actually free up ram for the rest of the OS or just for the rest of the app that allocated it?
[15:58] <Roey> like, if I close a hundred tabs in firefox, will that free up memory for other apps, or will firefox just free that memory up (for itself)?  i.e. what is the opposite of sbrk()
[16:40] <cbreak> Roey: linux has virtual memory since a long time
[16:40] <cbreak> inactive memory will be swapped out if needed, even if processes don't release it
[16:40] <cbreak> and nowadays, applications use mmap not sbrk I think
[16:52] <Roey> cbreak: ah ok.
[16:52] <Roey> hrm.
[16:52] <Roey> so like in my case firefox ends up consuming large amounts of RAM
[16:52] <Roey> I hope that closing all those tabs will result in it releasing RAM back to the OS
[16:52] <Roey> I mean I oculd just re-start Fx
[16:52] <Roey> just as well.
[16:52] <user|41> Everything consume now lot of ram :)
[16:53] <user|41> I remember QNX floppy disk demo ahhh
[16:53] <user|41> Or gopher jaja
[16:55] <cbreak> Roey: you can just try it :)
[16:55] <Roey> :)
[16:56] <cbreak> I use a bunch of addons, UnloadTabs, TreeStyleTabs, for example
[16:56] <Roey> I forgot to see how much RAM it consumed before I closed all those tabs
[16:56] <Roey> hehehe
[16:56] <cbreak> that way I don't have to close tabs if I don't want to
[16:56] <Roey> cbreak: ahhh ok
[16:56] <Roey> cbreak: I wonder if UnloadTabs works with Panorama Tab Groups
[16:56] <cbreak> Roey: you can check about:performance
[16:57] <cbreak> it will not give you a full view on memory
[16:57] <cbreak> but blame some of it on tabs
[16:57] <Roey> aye
[16:57] <Roey> :)
[16:57] <Roey> cbreak: and video content tabs
[16:57] <Roey> and anything extensive like Facebook
[16:57] <Roey> or Youtube
[16:57] <Roey> or Gmail
[16:58] <cbreak> and there's about:memory
 How to install android emulator on kubuntu ....?
[17:03] <oerheks> android studio > https://snapcraft.io/android-studio
[17:03] <oerheks> it is available as snap
[17:04] <oerheks> or anbox https://snapcraft.io/anbox
 Ok tnx (re @IrcsomeBot: <oerheks> or anbox https://snapcraft.io/anbox)
[18:27] <user|38> hi
[18:28] <user|38> I unintentionally damaged my sources.list file and can't find the default one. help
[18:29] <user|38> D:
[18:30] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Easy to fix!
[18:30] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Open a terminal with Ctrl+Alt+T.
[18:30] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Now run "sudo /etc/apt/sources.list".
[18:31] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Let me know when you've gotten that far.
[18:31] <user|38> order not found
[18:31] <user|38> :(
[18:32] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Oy, I messed up the command.
[18:32] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: "sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list"
[18:32] <user|38> ok
[18:32] <user|38> done
[18:32] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: OK, now press and hold Ctrl+K - this will wipe everything in the file. Then we can rebuild it (I've done this several times, it's easy).
[18:34] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Once the file is wiped, copy and paste the code from here into the file: https://pastebin.com/pFy59vzn
[18:35] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: I just realized I should ask you, what version of Kubuntu are you on? 20.04? 22.04?
[18:35] <arraybolt3[m]> (The contents of the file depend on the version of Kubuntu.)
[18:36] <user|38> thank you so much!
[18:36] <user|38> u are my hero <3
[18:37] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: What version of Kubuntu are you on?
[18:37] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: (no problem, glad to help)
[18:37] <user|38> 21.10
[18:38] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: OK, this won't work then, don't save the file yet.
[18:38] <user|38> late
[18:38] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: That's fine, just don't run anything with apt yet.
[18:38] <user|38> =#
[18:39] <user|38> late
[18:39] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: OK, no problem.
[18:39] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: I guess then we just upgraded your system to Jammy, which is good since 21.10 is EOL, so... uh... woot!
[18:40] <user|38> oh
[18:40] <user|38> ok
[18:40] <user|38> thanks
[18:40] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: You may want to back up all your data real quick to make sure your system can be recovered if anything goes wrong.
[18:41] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Do you have any 3rd-party repositories (PPAs) enabled on your system?
[18:42] <user|38> yep
[18:42] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: OK, run "sudo sed -i s/deb/#deb/ /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list".
[18:42] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: (If we've started the upgrade procedure, we should finish it right so that your system still works right.)
[18:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (And that command will temporarily disable 3rd party repos so we can upgrade properly.
[18:43] <arraybolt3[m]> (We'll be re-enabling them at the end of this.)
[18:46] <oerheks> original /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list > sudo cp /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list /etc/apt/source.list
[18:47] <oerheks> but universe and such are not enabled by fefault
[18:47] <oerheks> c/default
[18:47] <arraybolt3[m]> oerheks: I didn't realize he's still on Impish and we just accidentally hacky-upgraded to Jammy... so now I'm trying to recover that without breaking anything.
[18:47] <oerheks> oh oke
[18:48]  * arraybolt3[m] makes note to self to always ask about Ubuntu version before suggesting anything with sources.list
[18:51] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: You still here?
[18:53] <user|38> yep
[18:54] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: OK, did you run the "sudo sed -i s/deb/#deb/ /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list" command yet?
[18:54] <user|38> yes
[18:55] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: OK, can you do "sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list" again so we can get 21.10 fully upgraded *before* committing to the upgrade?
[18:58] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: Once that's open, wipe the file again and replace it with these contents: https://pastebin.com/DLTveimu
[19:39] <arraybolt3[m]> user|38: The guide I'm trying to walk you through is here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/458201/how-can-i-upgrade-ubuntu-to-newer-release-manually-without-using-update-manager If I'm not around when you're back, here's the instructions.


 I downloaded the ubuntu-feisty.git repo, and can't find them.
[12:34] <kraut> moin
[01:26] <zorglu_>  q. i want to do oprofile/sysprofile on the kernel on ubuntu feisty, can i do that without recompiling the kernel ? like by using existing packages ? if so wich one ?


[07:21] <dholbach> good morning
[11:43] <bluesabre> hello motus, would anybody be interested in reviewing/possibly approving https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1484478 for wily?
[11:43] <bluesabre> the xubuntu team is interested in shipping this package if possible
[11:43] <bluesabre> I'll be out most of the day, but ochosi should be able to answer any questions in my stead
[11:44] <ochosi> o/
[18:21] <AndrewGee> Hi all, how do I work out why a package isn't being copied over from debian sid to wily?


[01:18] <AskUbuntu_> JUJU Error "ERROR failed to bootstrap environment: waited for 10m0s without being able to connect: " | http://askubuntu.com/q/596929
[12:22] <AskUbuntu_> Juju bundle deployment and local repository | http://askubuntu.com/q/597038
[14:46] <AskUbuntu_> Agent-state forever pending or no tools available | http://askubuntu.com/q/597086


[16:51] <balloons> elopio, can you have a quick look and chat about switching from'from ubuntuuitoolkit import emulators as toolkit_emulators' to using the custom_proxy_objects?  https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/reminders-app/switch-emulators-to-proxy-object/+merge/226706
[16:52] <elopio> balloons: in one second.
[16:57] <elopio> balloons: you don't need to import _custom_proxy_objects
[16:57] <elopio> actually, you should not import the private methods.
[16:57] <elopio> *modules
[16:57] <balloons> elopio, yes this is really a quick hack, and I realize I'm not doing it right
[16:57] <balloons> so I just pushed and figured I'd ask :-)
[16:57] <elopio> all the objects are exported in ubuntuuitoolkit, so you can do ubuntuuitoolit.UbuntuUIToolkitCustomProxyObjectBase
[16:58] <elopio> balloons: import ubuntuuitoolkit
[16:58] <elopio> and replay all toolkit_emulators for ubuntuuitoolkit.
[16:58] <elopio> that's it. And thanks for the updates.
[16:59] <balloons> elopio, well apparently we found out today all the apps that have the deprecation warning are running under python2, as phablet-test-run sees it as an error and falls back to py2
[16:59] <elopio> balloons: yes, on reminders there's a workaround for that
[16:59] <balloons> a fix is being pushed, but I thought I should just clean them all up
[16:59] <elopio> and fginther fixed it on phablet tools, but it needs to land.
[17:00] <balloons> elopio, well xnox is also looking at it atm..
[17:01] <elopio> balloons, xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1327325
[17:01] <balloons> elopio, yep already seen it :-)
[17:01] <elopio> ok, I thought xnox was doing the fix again.
[17:03] <elopio> oh, yes, he did an alternate fix.
[17:03] <elopio> xnox: https://code.launchpad.net/~fginther/phablet-tools/fix-ptr-python3-import-check/+merge/222391
[17:03] <elopio> you even approved it :)
[17:03] <xnox> elopio: right yeah, that one was better.
[17:03] <xnox> why did it not land yet?
[17:03]  * xnox dputs it into the archive.
[17:03] <elopio> xnox: don't know.
[17:07] <balloons> ok elopio, so I swapped to as you suggested. however, the other side of the question is I'm still seeing the warning. I was trying to figure out why
[17:07] <fginther> xnox, elopio, confusion over the process and not realizing that it had not landed until elopio brought it up again about a week ago :-(
[17:07] <elopio> balloons: that's because I'm stupid
[17:07] <fginther> (confusion on my part that is)
[17:08] <elopio> and ubuntuitoolkit imports emulators, so it will always be thrown.
[17:08] <elopio> I need to fix that.
[17:08] <balloons> elopio, that was what I was seeing, just wanted a sanity check
[17:09] <xnox> fginther: finishing test build and will dput in a sec.
[17:09] <balloons> elopio, mind if I try fixing it?
[17:09] <balloons> or can you do it quickly?
[17:09] <elopio> balloons: not at all. I would appreciate it a lot.
[17:10] <balloons> kk.. I'll add it to the list and try and clean everything up
[17:10] <elopio> balloons: I think it would be just removing the import emulators from ubuntuitoolkit.
[17:10] <elopio> but I'm not sure, so it might be quick but need to confirm. And I didn't have that on my TODO for this week, so feel free to do it.
[17:11] <balloons> right, if it's quick I'll propose the mp today, if not it'll go on the list
[17:11] <elopio> balloons: an alternate solution if that doesn't work is to swallow the warning when importing it from the __init__.py.
[17:11] <balloons> elopio, mm.. ok ack
[22:30] <elopio> ping thomi, veebers
[22:30] <elopio> we have a big bad problem with the versions of QML components.
[22:30] <veebers> elopio: hey how's it gong?
[22:30] <veebers> oh
[22:30] <thomi> sup elopio?
[22:31] <thomi> elopio: I saw the bug
[22:31] <thomi> elopio: and directed veebers to it as well
[22:31] <veebers> I'm looking at it now
[22:31] <elopio> the thing is that when they make a new version of Button, autopilot will see Button11 as the class name
[22:31] <elopio> so with a new version of the toolkit, we can break all the existing autopilot tests.
[22:32] <elopio> I'm not sure what's a good solution for that. I'm not even sure what's possible and what is not.
[22:32] <thomi> elopio: yeah, that's not so cool
[22:32] <thomi> elopio: I suspect it'll need some digging in autopilot-qt
[22:32] <thomi> elopio: it'd be great to get a reproducer though
[22:32] <thomi> the bug report is kind of vague
[22:33] <thomi> elopio: can you (or someone else) please prepare a tarball that contains everything we need to reproduce?
[22:33] <veebers> thomi, elopio: Yeah I agree, it'll probably need some digging into libauotpilot-qt. elopio can you provide an easy way to reproduce
[22:33] <veebers> heh :-)
[22:33] <thomi> I'm about 90% more likely to look at it then
[22:33] <thomi> wot he sed
[22:33] <veebers> elopio: I won't be able to look at it today, not sure if thomi is available sooner. But we'll look at it as soon as we can
[22:33] <veebers> thomi: :-)
[22:34] <thomi> ... once there's a reproducer there
[22:35] <veebers> right
[22:36] <elopio> thomi, veebers: if you inspect the clock with autopilot vis you will see a Page10. Would that be enough?
[22:36] <thomi> elopio: not really
[22:36] <veebers> elopio: a sample test script would be much better
[22:36] <thomi> elopio: a *small* example
[22:36] <thomi> max 10 lines
[22:36] <elopio> I'll try to get one.
[22:36] <thomi> the clock has so many components it's impossible to find the rigth one in autopilot-qt
[22:41] <elopio> thomi, veebers: I've attached the examples to the bug:
[22:41] <elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot-qt/+bug/1341671
[22:42] <thomi> elopio: which file do I run with qmlscene?
[22:44] <elopio> thomi: qmlscene -testability name_of_file.qml
[22:46] <thomi> elopio: right, but which one
[22:46] <elopio> oh, sorry.
[22:47] <elopio> thomi: both. We currently have the problem with pages.
[22:47] <elopio> so any app using a Page will either show page10 or page11.
[22:47] <elopio> but as we almost never use pages directly, it wasn't bad.
[22:47] <elopio> now they will do the same with Button, which will be a huge pain.
[22:48] <elopio> the first one will show you how it will look for current apps
[22:48] <elopio> the second one for the apps when they update the version.
[22:49] <thomi> elopio: OK, so you expect the 'Page' component to show up as 'Page', right?
[22:50] <elopio> thomi: I'm not sure what to expect.
[22:50] <elopio> as a new version might add features, it would be useful to be able to match it by version. Have a helper for Page10 and an different one for Page11.
[22:50] <thomi> elopio: well, I can't fix this if you don't tell me what you want :)
[22:50] <elopio> but it sucks that old apps will have to update.
[22:51] <thomi> right now we present the Qml type name without much change
[22:51] <elopio> thomi: what I was going to propose to you and veebers was a meeting with the toolkit guys tomorrow, to find a strategy for new versions.
[22:52] <thomi> ugh
[22:52] <elopio> thomi: and what I would love to see is being able to match many qml types to a single python class. Something a little better to what we have with the validate dbus method.
[22:52] <elopio> but I'm not sure if that's a good strategy to go forward.
[22:53] <elopio> we will need a custom proxy object for Button, for example. And that's something you didn't want before.
[22:53] <veebers> elopio: not to use versions? ;-)
[22:53] <elopio> veebers: yes, make my life easier should be the first option :D
[22:54] <veebers> heh
[22:55] <thomi> elopio: ack, it's been on my mind for a while
[22:56] <thomi> elopio: actually - that's the soluton!
[22:56] <thomi> man... I could kiss you right now :D
[22:56] <elopio> for the current problems, I think I would be happy with something like this:
[22:56] <elopio> class Button(base_proxy):
[22:56] <elopio> qml_types = ['Button', 'Button10', 'Button11']
[22:56] <elopio> thomi: no kisses please :) I accept hugs, but not too often.
[22:57] <thomi> elopio: well, it'd be similar
[22:57] <thomi> elopio: what timeframe is this needed for? I cna throw together a proposal and get you a copy by tomorrow I think
[22:58] <thomi> best guess for implementation time right now is about 3 days...
[22:58] <thomi> if I do it
[22:58] <elopio> thomi: I think we can delay the release of the new button version, but not for long as the deadlines are already passed
[22:58] <elopio> but we have never been able to release a toolkit in less than a week, so 3 days sounds perfect.
[23:36] <thomi> elopio: writing a spec now. WIll you be around in 30 minutes to read a first draft?
[23:37] <elopio> thomi: I will.
[23:37] <thomi> ok, will ping you
[23:38] <elopio> thomi: you should probably know of all the issues I've been having with the validate_dbus, so we don't hit them again with your proposal.
[23:38] <thomi> elopio: I'm aware of some of them anyway, and this will fix that
[23:38] <thomi> elopio: feel free to follow along: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1dLdjvRbrILs3314dBM7sKazHDJgeFe3i2E5Rk5pJHTM/edit#
[23:38] <elopio> thomi: awesome. You can have one kiss.
[23:41] <thomi> hmmm
[23:47] <thomi> elopio: so you want one unified class called 'Button' that will work for both Button10 and Button11, right?
[23:47] <elopio> thomi: yes.
[23:48] <thomi> elopio: and the test author doesn't know which one it is?
[23:48] <thomi> so, this isn't what you want:
[23:48] <thomi> select_single(Button, version=10)
[23:49] <elopio> thomi: hum, I haven't thought about that one, but doesn't seem useful for our current case.
[23:50] <thomi> so, the one limitation I can't get past right now is that xpathselect has no way to say "select an object whose name starts with 'Button'", or "select an object whose name is one of 'Button10', 'Button11', etc.
[23:50] <thomi> although that wouldn't be the hardest thing to add.
[23:51] <elopio> thomi: but if you do it matching a substring, it would also match something like ButtonFOO.
[23:52] <thomi> elopio: yeah, I think I prefer the second variant
[23:52] <elopio> thomi: yes, that's the only want I need.
[23:52] <thomi> it would mean that custom proxy classes would need to be updated every time you bumped the version number
[23:52] <thomi> but TBH that's probably a good thing.
[23:53] <elopio> thomi: that's would mean that we need a custom proxy class on the toolkit per every component that it provides.
[23:53] <elopio> for me that's good
[23:53] <thomi> elopio: hmmm, yes, it would
[23:53] <elopio> but you said it was bad for components like button which will not provide any methods.
[23:53] <thomi> that's ok?
[23:53] <thomi> yeah, it's a bit icky
[23:54] <elopio> well, it makes my life a lot easier. That way I can provide a certified set of helpers, and just concentrate on keeping them working...
[23:55] <elopio> if people use something different and it breaks, it would not be my fault.
[23:55] <thomi> understood