[00:37] <CIA-2> pkgsel: cjwatson * r112 ubuntu/debian/ (63 files in 2 dirs):
[00:37] <CIA-2> pkgsel: Ask whether the user wants to install updates automatically, using
[00:37] <CIA-2> pkgsel: either unattended-upgrades or landscape-client. This question is only
[00:37] <CIA-2> pkgsel: asked at a high enough priority to be displayed on server or netboot
[00:37] <CIA-2> pkgsel: installations, but may be preseeded on other installations.
[00:40] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Thanks for the ubuntustudio tasksel changes. I was going to ask you about that but Cory beat me to it. I'll test them after the next daily run to be sure things work how we would like them to.
[00:40] <CIA-2> pkgsel: cjwatson * r113 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.20ubuntu4
[00:40] <cjwatson> ok, sounds good
[00:40] <cjwatson> TheMuso: how goes dmraid? anything I can help with? I've not been keeping up, but you seem to have been making plenty of progress ...
[00:42] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Practically done. Just got to fix up grub-installer to properly take os-prober's output of OSs on dmraid arrays, but thats more a bug than a feature, so just got to finish packaging and upload dmraid event code, and upload dmraid changes with some udev additions.
[00:42] <TheMuso> Then, it is just a matter of waiting for dmraid/partman-dmraid to be moved to main.
[00:43] <TheMuso> One other thing I need to do is sort out partman-auto and recepies. Haven't yet got to that, so if anything, I may actually need help with that.
[00:43] <TheMuso> In terms of getting it done sooner.
[00:43] <cjwatson> is there a bug for dmraid promotion?
[00:43] <TheMuso> As now 2.6.27 is in/going into the archive, I now have to get alsa 1.0.17 in before FF.
[00:43] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Yes there is. There has been since hardy, and it is set back to new ready for examination.
[00:44] <TheMuso> let me dig it up.
[00:44] <cjwatson> bug 191557?
[00:44] <cjwatson> and 191564
[00:45] <cjwatson> are the specific issues that were raised in 191557 fixed now? (notification on defective component, and rebuilding a degraded array)
[00:47] <TheMuso> Re 191557, no work has appeared from upstream concerning rebuilding degraded arrays, but as for detecting an array that has a problem, the extra package bits I'm working on for this can do that. I have also put a script into dmraid to sanity check an array, so that it is not brought up in a degraded state unless the user asks.
[00:48] <TheMuso> From what I can see, there is very little to no movement with dmraid upstream, unless there is a vcs repo that is being updtaed that I don't know about, but a red hat employee is the upstrea maintainer.
[00:49] <cjwatson> TheMuso: I don't think 2.6.27 is settled yet
[00:49] <TheMuso> cjwatson: oh ok.
[00:51] <TheMuso> then I'll hold off on my uploads then...
[00:54] <cjwatson> hmm, though it does look like linux is at 2.6.27 now
[00:54] <cjwatson> but the discussion with mdz on ubuntu-devel didn't seem to reach a clear conclusion
[00:54] <cjwatson> I'd say put the alsa (and pulseaudio?) packages in a PPA for now so that we can try them out with 2.6.27
[00:54] <TheMuso> Yeah I gathered. I'll wait.
[00:55] <TheMuso> Yep I'll do that once my dmraid work is done.
[00:55] <cjwatson> drop me a /msg or e-mail once you're comfortable with dmraid and friends moving to main, and I'll sort that out
[00:55] <TheMuso> Ok.
[02:35] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Actually, the changes to partman-auto are much much simpler than I thought.
[05:26] <CIA-2> partman-basicfilesystems: TheMuso * r569 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog init.d/autouse_swap): * init.d/autouse_swap: We no longer need to skip sataraid partitions.
[05:27] <CIA-2> partman-basicfilesystems: TheMuso * r570 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 60ubuntu2
[06:50] <CIA-2> console-setup: cjwatson * r75 ubuntu/ (50 files in 2 dirs): Fix property counts in Goha and legacy BDF fonts.
[07:16] <twb> Doing netinstall of hardy, can I use an NFS mount for the pool?
[07:16] <twb> I'm thinking I probably need to anna-install the nfs client first (from an http mirror).
[07:16] <cjwatson> I'm afraid there's no nfs-retriever yet
[07:17] <cjwatson> been meaning to write one for years
[07:17] <twb> cjwatson: oh, I have to do the full d-i before I can nfs install?
[07:17] <cjwatson> so no, you can't
[07:17] <twb> cjwatson: intersting; rh's kickstart seems to heavily favour NFS as the pool method.
[07:17] <cjwatson> I realise that, but I think in modern environments HTTP is not too much of an imposition?
[07:18] <twb> cjwatson: I just have to work out how to drive apache
[07:18] <twb> The box that's mirroring is in the dmz, so I have to be super careful
[07:18] <twb> Since I can't just firewall 80 like I can NFS
[07:18] <twb> I probably need one of those not-really-XML gibberish config entries in apache.conf
[07:19] <twb> cjwatson: mainly I wanted to use NFS because I expected it to be faster than http
[07:24] <cjwatson> really? HTTP is a very efficient protocol
[07:25] <twb> I didn't actually benchmark
[07:26] <twb> Seems to me though that nfs will be faster and have less overhead for the server than a (heavyweight) httpd
[07:26] <twb> For something like thttpd, shrug.
[07:26] <cjwatson> I've implemented HTTP; I'd be surprised if you could get significantly better throughput using NFS
[07:27] <cjwatson> in any case given that d-i doesn't support it HTTP will be an order of magnitude less trouble
[07:27] <twb> cjwatson: does d-i support rsync?
[07:27] <CIA-2> console-setup: cjwatson * r76 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog control): Switch from console-tools-udeb to kbd-udeb, in line with Debian.
[07:27] <cjwatson> twb: no
[07:28] <cjwatson> it supports FTP, but that typically has worse file transfer performance than HTTP
[07:28] <twb> FTP has a huge startup overhead compared to http
[07:29] <cjwatson> yes, it's a crap file transfer protocol :)
[07:29] <twb> Not to mention that it can't handle NAT
[07:29] <cjwatson> honestly, just use HTTP. It's not that hard
[07:29] <twb> cjwatson: right now I'm using http with my ISP's server, while I wait for someone to sort out the local mirror's http export
[07:32] <cjwatson> HTTP's main performance weakness is the fairly large headers; however, since d-i only fetches somewhere on the order of 1500 files and their mean size is relatively large compared to the header, I don't think that will make a huge difference
[07:32] <twb> Hmm, it didn't ask me if I wanted a separate /home partition
[07:32] <cjwatson> that is correct
[07:32] <cjwatson> use expert mode if you want that
[07:32] <twb> Was that removed? OK.
[07:32] <cjwatson> or manual partitioning
[07:33] <cjwatson> it was never there
[07:33] <twb> Debian's has/had it
[07:33] <cjwatson> sure, but it was never in Ubuntu
[07:33] <twb> Fair enough.
[07:34] <cjwatson> Debian is blithely ignoring the fact that a user has no reasonable basis on which to make the decision of how much disk to allocate to each, there's no particularly reasonable default, and if they get it wrong at installation time (when they can be expected to have least knowledge) it's very hard to change later
[07:34] <cjwatson> Debian is perhaps justified in doing so because their users are on average more knowledgeable
[07:34] <cjwatson> but I've never felt that it makes sense for Ubuntu to present such a question
[07:35] <evand> Plus we kind of remove the need for separate /home partitions.
[07:35] <evand> Apologies for inserting myself into the conversation.
[07:37] <twb> When you click on LVM LV entries in the partman, it's a noop.  It might be useful if a popup said "don't do that, choose `configure lvm' instead"
[07:37] <cjwatson> which entries exactly? (what's the text?)
[07:38] <twb> cjwatson: after you create an LV like "root", it's the entry about the one for the filesystem.
[07:39] <twb> Sorry, I've already clicked past it.
[07:39] <cjwatson> did you create the LV using "Configure the Logical Volume Manager"?
[07:39] <twb> cjwatson: yes.
[07:40] <cjwatson> it shouldn't be a no-op, then, if I'm understanding you correctly (without exact text it's hard to be sure); selecting the LV should let you e.g. create a filesystem on it
[07:40] <twb> For real disks, clicking on it says "write a new partition table for this?"
[07:41] <twb> cjwatson: nono, creating a filesystem and mountpoint is on the next line
[07:41] <cjwatson> oh, right
[07:41] <twb> (To clarify: this is netinst d-i on 8.04, without gtk)
[07:41] <twb> Er, pxe boot, not a "netinst" type CD
[07:42] <cjwatson> yes, I agree. please file a bug on partman-base
[07:43] <cjwatson> the real problem is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=247342, though
[07:43] <cjwatson> namely, that you get two lines rather than one for an LV in the first place
[07:44]  * twb does "bts subscribe"
[07:44] <twb> Sorry, I'm too lazy to get a new/find out my launchpad password
[07:45] <TheMuso> evand, cjwatson, with the d-i changes I've made for dmraid, and with such changes making partman-dmraid just about redundant, I don't see why we couldn't get ubiquity installing to dmraid arrays, unless parts of ubiquity itself need to be worked on to allow this.
[07:46] <twb> Stupid question: if "md" is "multiple disks", what does "dm" stand for?
[07:46] <TheMuso> device mapper
[07:46] <twb> Ah.
[08:15] <CIA-2> ubiquity: evand * r2781 ubiquity/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
[08:15] <CIA-2> ubiquity: Add before and after graphical partition bars to the autopartitioning
[08:15] <CIA-2> ubiquity: page.
[11:25] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I'm wondering what your thoughts are about getting rid of the dmraid=true kernel command-line, as well as the sataraid warning that gets displayed. If it was decided to remove it, partman-dmraid could be retired, and the remaining partman-dmraid bits could be merged into partman-base. THoughts?
[11:29] <cjwatson> I'm all for removing it if it works well without, although I'm less sure about merging in partman-dmraid
[11:29] <cjwatson> what are the contents of that udeb now?
[11:33] <TheMuso> All partman-dmraid has is the warning, and setting the sataraid flag for dmraid devices. I figured that when partman-base creates /var/lib/partman/devices and its subdirs for devices, that if it detects a dmraid device, it sets the sataraid flag there.
[11:33] <TheMuso> partman-dmraid also added the commit option to the top of the manual partitioning window, which is now redundant due to my libparted changes.
[11:35] <cjwatson> normally I'd say that it's better to have an extra module than to make partman-base even larger and more confusing, but if it's literally just setting a single flag, then I guess that isn't worth a separate module
[11:35] <cjwatson> what consumes the sataraid flag?
[11:37] <TheMuso> Prior to some recent changes in other parts of partman, it was used to disable features. After all of this is done, the only thing that will use the sataraid flag is partman-auto, to prevent skipping over dmraid mapper devices.
[11:38] <cjwatson> sounds sensible to merge it all into partman-base, then
[11:39] <TheMuso> ok great. Will go ahead and tie up the loose ends.
[12:40] <davmor2> cjwatson: Yay Oem worked :) well on Ubuntu I'll try on Kubuntu now :)
[12:40] <cjwatson> oh good
[12:43] <CIA-2> partman-base: TheMuso * r103 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog init.d/parted):
[12:43] <CIA-2> partman-base: * init.d/parted: Set the sataraid flag for dmraid arrays. This code was
[12:43] <CIA-2> partman-base:  originally in partman-dmraid, which is being retired.
[12:45] <CIA-2> partman-base: TheMuso * r104 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 121ubuntu5
[12:52] <CIA-2> partman-auto: TheMuso * r269 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog lib/auto-shared.sh):
[12:52] <CIA-2> partman-auto: * lib/auto-shared.sh: Consider device-mapper devices/dmraid arrays with
[12:52] <CIA-2> partman-auto:  the sataraid flag set as usable for automatic partitioning.
[12:53] <CIA-2> partman-auto: TheMuso * r270 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 78ubuntu2
[13:19] <davmor2> cjwatson: Kubuntu Alt 64bit just failed due to the adept breakage but it isn't showing up on http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html :(
[13:20] <davmor2> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/40893/
[13:21] <cjwatson> sometimes the report doesn't manage to figure out installability just exactly the same way as apt
[13:21] <cjwatson> anyway, please talk to the Kubuntu people
[13:22] <cjwatson> and see http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/intrepid_probs.html which does report this
[13:22] <cjwatson> I believe it's being worked on
[13:23] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Hrm looks like we won't have dmraid event monitoring for intrepid... I am trying to build part of the code here, and it is somewhat broken, as well as not being able to find changelogs for any of the bits needed anywhere on the net or in tarballs...
[13:48] <jamesb`> hey - does anyone know why d-i insists on creating an extended partition when i'm specifying three partitions as primary in an expert_recipe?
[13:48] <jamesb`> this is the recipe: 512 512 512 ext3 $primary{ } $bootable{ } method{ format } format{ } use_filesystem{ } filesystem{ ext3 } mountpoint{ /boot } . 512 2048 4096 linux-swap $primary{ } method{ swap } format{ } .  2048 10000<PHONE_NUMBER> xfs $primary{ } method{ format } format{ } use_filesystem{ } filesystem{ xfs } mountpoint{ / } .
[13:49] <jamesb`>  /boot and swap end up as primary, but / ends up as extended... any ideas?
[13:49] <davmor2> cjwatson: thanks again I've informed riddell the adept issue is minor and should be a doddle to fix and the mysql one is being worked on :)
[13:49] <cjwatson> jamesb`: do you mean logical rather than extended?
[13:49] <jamesb`> yeah, sorry
[13:50] <cjwatson> jamesb`: I think I'd have to see syslog and partman logs
[13:50] <cjwatson> jamesb`: are you telling it to use the whole disk, or just some existing free space?
[13:50] <jamesb`> cjwatson: the whole disk
[13:51] <jamesb`> are the logs saved anywhere after install?
[13:51] <cjwatson> the logs should let me trace through what's goin on
[13:51] <cjwatson> going
[13:51] <cjwatson> yeah, /var/log/installer/
[13:52] <cjwatson> though I'm curious as to why it's important that / be primary
[13:52] <cjwatson> usually I've found it best to use logical partitions wherever possible
[13:52] <cjwatson> as it weakens the constraints that partitioners may find themselves having to solve later
[13:53] <cjwatson> (I understand that your BIOS probably wants at least one partition to be primary and that might as well be /boot)
[13:53] <jamesb`> no particular reason, mostly just to keep things the same as our existing machines
[13:54] <jamesb`> just waiting for the install to finish and i'll grab the logs
[14:52] <jamesb`> cjwatson: i've got the partman and syslog available now if you want to check them out
[14:53] <jamesb`> you can grab them from http://dneg.com/~tech/installer/
[15:12] <CIA-2> hw-detect: TheMuso * r84 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog debian/disk-detect.templates disk-detect.sh):
[15:12] <CIA-2> hw-detect: * disk-detect.sh: Do not check the kernel command line for any option
[15:12] <CIA-2> hw-detect:  to enable dmraid support. If functional dmraid arrays are found, they
[15:12] <CIA-2> hw-detect:  will be activated.
[15:12] <CIA-2> hw-detect: * debian/disk-detect.templates: Remove disk-detect/dmraid/enable template.
[15:14] <CIA-2> hw-detect: TheMuso * r85 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.63ubuntu2
[15:16] <TheMuso> cjwatson: When you get a chance, feel free to look over dmraid for promotion to main. If there are any issues, ping me and I'll attend to them first thing in the morning/during the meeting. As I said, no dmraid event monitoring due to broken code which needs addressing by upstream.
[15:16] <TheMuso> Now I'm off to bed.
[15:26] <cjwatson> jamesb`: blink, /dev/vda?
[15:29] <jamesb`> cjwatson: its a kvm vm - i've tested the same preseed on real hardware and the behaviour is the same though
[15:31] <CIA-2> pkgsel: cjwatson * r114 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog postinst): Check /cdrom/.disk/info before unmounting /cdrom.
[15:32] <CIA-2> pkgsel: cjwatson * r115 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.20ubuntu5
[15:46] <cjwatson> jamesb`: hmm, that's odd, it seems to think there are more partitions to be created after that last one. Could I see your whole preseed file, please? (feel free to strip passwords from it obviously)
[15:51] <jamesb`> sure - http://dneg.com/~tech/ubuntu.cfg
[16:01] <mpt> cjwatson, so I've been told I should help with the design of Landscape setup during server installation
[16:01] <mpt> cjwatson, but that's all I've been told. Has anything been implemented yet? If not, is it intended for Intrepid?
[16:08] <cjwatson> mpt: OK, so I *very* recently added the core stuff to pkgsel: that's a question asked just before doing bulk package installation that asks you how you want to manage updates
[16:08] <cjwatson> mpt: the broad design of that question is as specified by Mark
[16:09] <cjwatson> __Choices: No automatic updates, Install security updates automatically, Manage system with Landscape
[16:09] <cjwatson> _Description: How do you want to manage upgrades on this system?
[16:09] <cjwatson>  Applying updates on a frequent basis is an important part of keeping your
[16:09] <cjwatson>  system secure.
[16:10] <cjwatson>  .
[16:10] <cjwatson>  By default, updates need to be applied manually using package management
[16:10] <cjwatson>  tools. Alternatively, you can choose to have this system automatically
[16:10] <cjwatson>  download and install security updates, or you can choose to manage this
[16:10] <cjwatson>  system over the web as part of a group of systems using Canonical's
[16:10] <cjwatson>  Landscape service.
[16:10] <cjwatson> we haven't put the glue together for the last bit yet, but I believe the idea is that if you select "Landscape" here then the landscape-client package will ask for your Landscape ID
[16:11] <mpt> assuming that you have one
[16:11] <cjwatson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pkgsel/ubuntu/revision/112 if you want the whole thing
[16:11] <cjwatson> right, I gather you'd be able to leave it blank
[16:11] <mpt> thanks
[16:12] <cjwatson> I don't know a whole lot about how Landscape works - mdz just gave me the design in person
[16:12] <mpt> Well, I was wondering if anyone would choose "Manage system with Landscape" because they want to start using Landscape, and therefore don'g have an ID yet.
[16:12] <cjwatson> although the wording is my fault and now's an excellent time to improve it
[16:12] <cjwatson> I don't know how you go about getting an ID. Presumably you have to sign up for support
[16:13] <cjwatson> (or a trial)
[16:15] <cjwatson> this was a "just one more thing I can do" late last night kind of deal, so I haven't actually tried it yet
[16:15] <mpt> ok
[16:16] <mpt> cjwatson, will it be present in the latest daily server ISO?
[16:16] <cjwatson> part of the "late last night" bit was that it was *cough* a bit busted
[16:16] <cjwatson> I fixed the bustedness I saw today, but that won't be in an ISO yet
[16:17] <mpt> ok
[16:17] <cjwatson> I had to mess around a bit to get that question to appear only in netboot or server installations
[16:21] <cjwatson> jamesb`: (I'll get back to you, BTW, still trying to figure out what's going on)
[16:21] <cjwatson> dendrobates: so, as I said in e-mail, we now have a question that will prompt for the type of automatic updates you want, of which one choice is Landscape
[16:22] <jamesb`> cjwatson: thanks, i appreciate it. let me know if there's any more info you need or if there's anywhere to start digging to investigate myself
[16:22] <cjwatson> dendrobates: we need to get that choice bound to a sensible action; currently it's bound to "install landscape-client", which is apparently not quite right
[16:23] <cjwatson> dendrobates: so we need to arrange for landscape-client to ask for the ID if and only if the user chose to manage their system using Landscape, right?
[16:23] <dendrobates> cjwatson: could it be to install landscape client at a certain debconf priority/
[16:23] <cjwatson> there is no such concept in the installer
[16:23] <dendrobates> cjwatson: ahh, right.
[16:23] <cjwatson> sorry :)
[16:23] <dendrobates> cjwatson: so that is why I planned on doing it a different way.
[16:24] <cjwatson> however, we could easily arrange to set some dummy template in landscape-client that you can use to determine the priority at which you ask the question
[16:24] <cjwatson> that would be my usual suggestion
[16:24] <cjwatson> db_get landscape-client/ask-for-id; if [ "$RET" = true ]; then priority=high; else priority=medium; fi; db_input "$priority" landscape-client/id
[16:24] <cjwatson> something like that
[16:24] <dendrobates> cjwatson: if you are selecting landscape to update, it can be assumed that you have an account, no?
[16:25] <cjwatson> 16:12 <mpt> Well, I was wondering if anyone would choose "Manage system with Landscape" because they want to start using Landscape, and therefore don'g have an ID yet.
[16:25] <cjwatson> I think we need to assume that some people will choose it out of curiosity
[16:26] <dendrobates> cjwatson: so db_get landscape-client/ask-for-id in debconf sounds like the best bet.
[16:26] <cjwatson> dendrobates: can I see the current packaging?
[16:27] <dendrobates> cjwatson: chinstrap:~rclark/uploads/
[16:28] <cjwatson> _Description: Account Name:
[16:28] <cjwatson>  Short lowercase identifier of the Landscape account this computer
[16:28] <cjwatson>  will be assigned.
[16:28] <cjwatson> is that expected to be an identifier you already know?
[16:28] <cjwatson> or is it analogous to a hostname?
[16:30] <cjwatson> dendrobates: please change debian/landscape-client.postinst to put '. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' at the very top of the file, right under 'set -e'; non-intuitively, sourcing that file has the effect of re-execing the whole script from the start, so you usually want to source it right up top
[16:30] <cjwatson> (you could do the $1 = configure test before it to save resources in corner cases, I suppose)
[16:31] <dendrobates> cjwatson: I think account name is already known, but I will check with the landscape guys.
[16:31] <cjwatson> also, please remove db_stop; it doesn't do what you want, and can do bad things in the installer context
[16:31] <dendrobates> cjwatson: will do.
[16:33] <cjwatson> postrm: ! deluser --version >/dev/null 2>&1 || exec deluser landscape
[16:33] <cjwatson> lose the "exec" - you have stuff after it which won't get run if you exec deluser
[16:34] <cjwatson> dendrobates: anyway, give me a template name you want to use, and add it to debian/templates with Type: boolean and an untranslated Description (i.e. Description: not _Description:)
[16:35] <cjwatson> oh, and also Default: false
[16:35] <cjwatson> I'll arrange to set it to true
[16:35] <dendrobates> cjwatson: ok, give me a few minutes.
[16:39] <mpt> cjwatson, so the prompt that asks for your Landscape ID could direct you to http://landscape.canonical.com/ if you don't have one already
[16:40] <mpt> other than that, I'm not sure there's anything for me to do here
[16:42] <cjwatson> dendrobates: ^- that's one for your side of this I think
[16:45] <cjwatson> jamesb`: OK, I'm a bit mystified here. Could you run some debugging for me? Comment out the debconf/priority line in your preseed file so that we get an opportunity for some interaction; add DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer to the kernel parameters; then, when it asks you for a hostname, press alt-f2, start a shell, 'nano /bin/perform_recipe', and put 'set -x' on the second line
[16:45] <cjwatson> jamesb`: then continue, and I'll need those logs again
[16:45] <jamesb`> cjwatson: okay, i'll do that and let you know when the logs etc are ready
[16:46] <cjwatson> that should give me a shell trace of where it's applying the partitioning recipe, and I ought to be able to see whatever's broken from that
[16:46] <cjwatson> thanks
[16:48] <jamesb`> no problem
[16:49] <dendrobates> cjwatson: landscape-client/register_system
[16:56] <dendrobates> cjwatson: do you want this in the postinst?  <cjwatson> db_get landscape-client/ask-for-id; if [ "$RET" = true ]; then priority=high; else priority=medium; fi; db_input "$priority" landscape-client/id
[16:57] <cjwatson> well, that was example code, but that sort of idea, yes
[16:58] <cjwatson> I'm not sure which questions you actually want to ask
[16:58] <dendrobates> cjwatson: except in the installer, none.
[16:58] <cjwatson> right now, the db_get calls you have will just retrieve information from the database; you'll need 'db_input "$priority" question/name || true; db_input "$priority" other/question/name || true; db_go' or something like that to actually have them asked
[16:59] <cjwatson> with the priority conditional above they will be asked in expert mode outside the installer and asked in either normal or expert mode in the installer, which I think is the right model personally
[17:01] <dendrobates> cjwatson: ok, good. we are trying to avoid every desktop user being asked a question when they upgrade.
[17:02] <cjwatson> yes
[17:02] <dendrobates> cjwatson:  I have avioded debconf, and now I wish I hadn't, would make this all easier.
[17:02] <cjwatson> I mean, if you'd rather, you could also do 'if [ "$RET" = true ]; then db_input ... || true; db_input ... || true; ... db_go; fi'
[17:02] <cjwatson> i.e. only ask the question at all in the installer, regardless of default priority
[17:03] <cjwatson> it's really not as scary as it looks at this level, but takes a little getting used to I know
[17:03] <cjwatson> maybe I should give an open week talk on it or something at some point
[17:24] <CIA-2> pkgsel: cjwatson * r116 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog postinst):
[17:24] <CIA-2> pkgsel: Preseed landscape-client/register_system to true if Landscape is
[17:24] <CIA-2> pkgsel: selected.
[17:29] <jamesb`> cjwatson: partman and syslog are here: http://dneg.com/~tech/log.debug/ - let me know if you need anything else
[17:44] <cjwatson> jamesb`: ah, I was looking in the intrepid source and it's fixed there; no wonder I couldn't figure it out
[17:44] <cjwatson> partman-auto 74:
[17:44] <cjwatson>   * Don't create the last partition as a logical partition when all partitions
[17:44] <cjwatson>     are defined as primary and there are sufficient primary partitions
[17:44] <cjwatson>     available. Closes: #413505.
[17:44] <cjwatson> jamesb`: do you need a fix urgently, or is it sufficient to know that it's fixed in later releases?
[17:46] <jamesb`> cjwatson: its not crazy urgent - would be nice to have though. i guess i can try patching it in myself if its updated in a newer version
[17:48] <cjwatson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/partman-auto/trunk/revision?start_revid=1138
[18:00] <jamesb`> cheers
[18:23] <dendrobates> cjwatson: I made the landscape debconf changes and uploaded the package to chinstrap.  Can you take a quick look before I move on?
[18:25] <cjwatson> dendrobates: I didn't think we were going to ask landscape-client/register_system, only have it be preseeded by the installer
[18:26] <cjwatson> dendrobates: if that's the case, (a) it should have Description not _Description (untranslated) (b) the landscape.canonical.com link should be moved somewhere that's actually visible
[18:26] <dendrobates> cjwatson: oops, you did say that.
[18:26] <cjwatson> dendrobates: the indentation in landscape-client.postinst is pretty foul, and you *must* have a space after [ or it will break
[18:27] <cjwatson> dendrobates: you don't appear to actually ask the questions anywhere
[18:29] <cjwatson> dendrobates: chinstrap:~cjwatson/landscape-client-1.0.17/debian/landscape-client.postinst is more what I had in mind
[18:29] <dendrobates> ok
[18:29] <cjwatson> I haven't tested this, but I guess you hadn't either :)
[18:30] <cjwatson> to test the question-asking, you could do this before installing the package: echo landscape-client landscape-client/register_system boolean true | sudo debconf-set-selections
[18:31] <dendrobates> cjwatson: not yet, unfortunately I'm trying to do about 6 things at once and doing none of them well.  I will fix it all up, in the end though.
[18:58] <CIA-2> pkgsel: cjwatson * r117 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.20ubuntu6
[23:07] <superm1> evand, would you mind taking a look at bug 261676 sooner then  alpha5?  it's what will pull DKMS onto the dvds, so I wanted to make sure that we could include dkms as an item to install in the preseed and that it actually ends up working?
[23:08] <evand> superm1: will do.  This week has been insanely busy, but I should have much more time post FF
[23:09] <superm1> evand, sure, just so long as can try a dvd image prior to alpha5.  we had a mad rush closer to the end of last time fighting daily after daily on some things, so sooner is better.
[23:15] <CIA-2> debian-installer: cjwatson * r954 ubuntu/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Move mainline architectures to 2.6.27-1 kernels.
[23:17] <evand> noted
[23:19] <CIA-2> debian-installer: cjwatson * r955 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20080522ubuntu11


[02:01] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:04] <Ahmuck> hear hear ... I may be able to demo edubuntu in some form to one of the local schools :)
[02:04] <Ahmuck> at least there may be interest soon.
[02:05] <sbalneav> Congrats
[02:20] <Lns> Ahmuck, woohoo! If there's anything I can do to help, let me know - keep us in the loop!
[02:21] <Lns> hi sbalneav
[02:21]  * Lns orders pints for the chan
[02:26]  * sbalneav quaffs pint
[02:31] <Ahmuck> apache directory studio ?  LDAP ?
[02:34] <Lns> wow, looks nice
[02:34] <Lns> anyone have any exp. w/it?
[02:57] <sbalneav> gq, this, etc are all nice, but I'm never sure who they're geared to.
[02:58] <sbalneav> They're far to complicated for a non-professional admin (read: teacher) who just wants "to add a user"
[02:59] <sbalneav> And for a full time admin like me, once you get onto ldap, you find yourself scripting everything, and wanting to just deal with the command line tools so you can diddle with 500 entries at a single swipe, as opposed to plinking around in a gui.
[03:02] <sbalneav> I wish there was a good single GTK app for dealing with LDAP
[03:02] <sbalneav> Something that's nice and simple.
[03:02] <sbalneav> gq's there, but it's buggy as all get out.
[03:03] <sbalneav> This looks nice, but it's a packaging nightmare
[03:03] <sbalneav> eclipse + java + apache directory studio = a lot of work.
[03:04] <sbalneav> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gqclient/files/
[03:04] <sbalneav> last time it was touched was back in 2008
[03:06] <sbalneav> Lns: You deal with LDAP?
[04:30] <Lns> sbalneav, admittedly no.. I've tried at it a few times, I kinda get the structure (o= ou= etc.) but definitely haven't mastered it yet
[11:10] <Sorell> I have a question
[11:10] <Sorell> I have 2 nics on my ubuntu LTSP box
[11:11] <Sorell> and am wondering why it needs 2 ports
[11:12] <Sorell> does it split the network traffic up or is one of them just used for the network boot service
[12:26] <aflorio_> hi guys.. i'm a teacher.. i'm searching for a software i can use to make tests... i want to test my students with custom question,,. you know.. as usual writing test, but made in front of a pc
[13:58] <highvoltage> hey all
[15:02] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:07] <stgraber> alkisg: I'm pushing an updated tftpd-hpa to my PPA for testing
[15:07] <stgraber> the server team's position is to restore previous behavior
[15:07] <stgraber> except for inetd where we'll switch to daemon
[15:08] <sbalneav> so tftpd-hpa will run by itself, no inetd now?
[15:20] <stgraber> right
[15:21] <stgraber> it's a two line change to revert to the default behavior, except for the inetd thing, so we'll probably keep it as a daemon as long as it performs at least as well as inetd
[15:29] <sbalneav> Yeah, I have no problem with that.
[15:32] <highvoltage> stgraber: hmm, I think the ship seed may need some tweaking, dhcp3-server and ltsp-server-standalone are not available in the packages pool on the disc
[15:36] <stgraber> highvoltage: fixed
[15:37] <stgraber> highvoltage: I change ltsp-server by ltsp-server-standalone which recommends dhcp3-server, so we should have everything after that
[15:37] <highvoltage> stgraber: thanks!
[15:39] <highvoltage> stgraber: imho there's some good potential for future (or maybe even this) implementations of the ltsp-live cd. I think we could have a little gui that asks you:
[15:39] <highvoltage> stgraber: 1. whether you want to export the whole livecd or a thin client session
[15:39] <highvoltage> stgraber: 2. what interface you'd like to run dhcpd on (if at all)
[15:40] <highvoltage> stgraber: 3. whether you'd like to load the ltsp.squashfs or the filesystem.squashfs into tmpfs
[15:41] <highvoltage> I guess even further on it could have some support for selecting a preseed and perhaps some puppet integration so that you could use it to deploy some machines
[15:41] <highvoltage> might be too much but it might be something worth while to discuss for a future implementation
[15:41] <stgraber> yep, there's definitely potential there
[15:42] <alkisg> Yeah too bad FF is so soon :)
[15:45] <alkisg> stgraber: thanks! Would you also have a look at the "nbd-proxy under vbox" issue (makes testing easier :))? Or maybe I should add support for a "no-nbd-proxy" kernel parameter to ltsp_nbd?
[15:46] <stgraber> alkisg: I'll try to have someone test it and debug it here. I don't use VBox ;)
[15:46] <alkisg> lxc? Or real clients?
[15:47] <stgraber> I use KVM and real clients
[15:47] <alkisg> (or qemu / xen / kvm etc etc
[15:47] <highvoltage> I use VirtualBox because I'm a sucker for nice user interfaces
[15:47] <alkisg> highvoltage: did you also have an issue with nbd-proxy?
[15:47] <highvoltage> (oh and some of my machines don't have VT extensions)
[15:48] <highvoltage> alkisg: I haven't tried lucid ltsp on vbox yet, but it seems that I will soon :)
[15:49] <stgraber> highvoltage: I don't know if Julien/David will be at the office this afternoon, if yes, they'll test with VBox. If not, then I'll probably poke you ;)
[15:53] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok, I'm installing Edubuntu in virtualbox now, so it will be pratically no effort for me to test, I will do so anyway then :)
[17:28] <cheesyking> hi all, got a problem with an ubuntu LTSP install, any experts around?
[17:30] <cheesyking> just ran apt-get update on the client directory and I've got a pulseaudio problem
[17:34] <highvoltage> cheesyking: in the ltsp chroot?
[17:34] <cheesyking> yeah
[17:35] <cheesyking> unmet dependancy
[17:35] <highvoltage> cheesyking: in karmic?
[17:35] <cheesyking> I think the dependancy didn't install because it was trying to start pulse and couldn't
[17:35] <cheesyking> yeah karmic
[17:36] <cheesyking> don't worry too much though, I've just wipped it and started rebuilding the client
[17:36] <cheesyking> but I'd like to know what I did wrong... so I don't do it again!
[17:37] <sbalneav> We'd need to see the exact error
[17:38] <cheesyking> just copying and pasting...
[17:40] <cheesyking> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1630910/pulse.txt
[17:41] <cheesyking> it looked a little large to post on IRC
[17:49] <sbalneav> cheesyking: Did you remember to run: export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
[17:50] <sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
[17:50] <sbalneav> You need that in order to prevent the server from restarting it's own daemons when updateing the chroot.
[17:51] <cheesyking> sorry, no,
[17:51] <cheesyking> I thought I was forgetting something simple, thanks for being patient with me
[17:53] <sbalneav> No problem
[17:53] <sbalneav> 99% of the time, just doing an "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade" in the chroot works find.
[17:54] <sbalneav> but if hal, dbus, pulse, etc, decide to upgrade, thats when it gets tricky.
[17:54] <sbalneav> i.e. you need to mount proc in the chroot, set HANDLE_DAEMONS, etc.
[17:54] <sbalneav> works fine, sorry
[18:03] <joerg_> hi
[18:20] <cheesyking> thanks
[18:22] <joerg> cheesyking, welcome :o)
[18:50] <stgraber> meeting in 10
[18:59] <highvoltage>  meeting in one!
[18:59] <highvoltage> (or now, actually)
[19:00] <joerg> hello meeting ^^
[19:00] <alkisg> Lns, sbalneav, nixternal, mgariepy ^^
[19:03] <Lns> oop!
[19:05] <joerg> it's a very productive meeting today, isn't it? :)
[19:30] <stgraber> joerg: meeting is in ubuntu-meeting, not here
[19:32] <joerg> lol
[19:32] <joerg> okay :D
[21:45] <sbalneav> So, just got finished with an Email convo with Dave Hopkins, apparently, it looks as if my LDAP tutorial got him going.
[21:46] <sbalneav> You know what would be REALLY cool?
[21:47] <sbalneav> is if there was a GTK app, similar to Gnome Help, that you could point at raw wiki pages, stored locally, and it would render them.
[21:47] <sbalneav> So, exactly the same as gnome help, but with wiki markup as the backend, and not docbook
[21:47] <sbalneav> that way, the handbook could just be: the wiki
[21:48] <sbalneav> We'd work on the wiki, keeping it up to date, and just before launch, we'd get a static copy of all the wiki .txt files from the web server
[21:48] <sbalneav> then just dump 'em in /usr/share somewhere.
[21:51] <alkisg> There are some moinmoin to docbook exporters available... but not in really good shape, afaik
[21:52] <alkisg> But I think it would be simple to fix those converters, than to create such an app from scratch
[21:53] <sbalneav> Well, what I was wondering was is if Gnome Help has a plugin arch.
[21:53] <sbalneav> But, moinmoin to docbook would be good too.
[23:23] <Lns> sbalneav: alkisg: what about simply pointing to the wiki directly? I mean, I guess if they don't have net access..
[23:24] <Lns> but dumping them right before release, it'd be like a solid snapshot for that release with no changes afterwards...that might be good (or bad too)


[00:26] <maxb> Would anyone happen to know why mdadm installs udev rules which create /dev/md/* symlinks ?
[00:26] <maxb> Why the extra names, instead of just using /dev/md* ?
[02:08] <nobuto> SpamapS, pitti: Hi. "pkgsel" package for Lucid-SRU(Bug #797985) is still in unapproved queue. Could you take a look to push lucid-proposed? Thanks in advance.
[08:18] <elmo> Daviey: your cloud thing is losing it's mind again and spamming us with failure mails
[08:52] <pitti> nobuto: we'll get to it; I'll probably ask our latest SRU team member RAOF to review it :)
[11:06] <sveinse> I have a package which has only static files which shall be installed, and I've put the list of the files into debian/install. However, I need to pass --sourcedir to dh_install. How do I do that when I'm using the default %:   dh $@   rules?
[11:07] <RAOF> sveinse: You can write an override_dh_install: target that will be called instead of dh_install.  That target would call dh_install --sourcedir=whatever.
[11:08] <sveinse> Are there any variables available for the root of the sources?
[11:09] <RAOF> The root of the sources?  debian/rules is guaranteed (by dh_test) to be called from the root of the sources (or at least the directory containing debian/), so CURDIR will be what you want.
[11:10] <sveinse> Excellent. Thanks
[11:23] <RAOF> pitti: What is the SRU policy WRT translations?  The package for Bug #797985 appears to contain a full export of launchpad translations, so has a bunch of translation changes unrelated to the specific bug, but we probably want them all.
[11:50] <cjwatson> RAOF: I can cut it down if you like, but there didn't seem a strong reason to do so
[11:52] <RAOF> cjwatson: I agree.  As the newest SRU team member I'm just checking that everyone *else* agrees, too :)
[11:56] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/~linaro-validation/+archive/ppa
[12:42] <sveinse> Is it possible to rename the installed file when using the listing in debian/install?
[12:45] <cjwatson> sveinse: no, sorry, that's a documented limitation (in dh_install(1))
[12:46] <cjwatson> sveinse: if you need that, create the containing directory in debian/dirs, and then have an override_dh_install rule that does 'install -m0755 source-file-name debian/packagename/usr/bin/target-file-name' or whatever
[12:46] <sveinse> yes, thanks
[12:48] <sveinse> Is it considered bad to do 'install -D ...'? (instead of using debian/dirs I mean)
[12:51] <sveinse> cjwatson: ^
[12:52] <cjwatson> sveinse: doesn't matter much
[12:59] <DktrKranz> mvo: hi! vte 2.90 is in unstable now, I think next gdebi upload could be targeted unstable as well.
[13:03] <mvo> DktrKranz: awsome news!
[14:20] <pitti> cjwatson, kees: just sent a tb@ mail about moving the meeting today
[14:24] <mdeslaur> pitti: are you available?
[14:24] <pitti> mdeslaur: yes, I am; I can come over to the security room
[14:24] <pitti> ok?
[14:24] <mdeslaur> pitti: sure, cool
[14:24] <pitti> your chairs are a lot better than our's :)
[14:25] <mdeslaur> pitti: yes, they are :P
[14:25] <kees> pitti: some of our chairs were stolen though
[14:25] <mdeslaur> kees: Dude! Don't tell him, he won't come
[14:34] <sveinse> What are the options in the section line in debian/control ?  I thought I could put universe here, but lintian refuses to accept it
[14:34] <Laney> ha at the security team being a victim of chair theft :-)
[14:42] <TheMuso> sveinse: The universe keyword is added by the archive software, and does not get put into actual package control files.
[14:48] <geser> Laney: bad security I'd say :)
[14:48]  * Laney expects a USN post haste
[14:51]  * micahg sends USN-CHAI-R
[14:53] <sveinse> TheMuso, what can be put into the section keyword?
[14:54] <brendand> anyone know which package contains GtkFileChooserDialog in Oneiric?
[14:59] <geser> sveinse: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
[15:00] <sveinse> ok, so the debian sections also applies for ubuntu. Thanks
[15:00] <evfool> brendand: that'd be probably the gtk package
[15:01] <evfool> brendand: https://launchpad.net/gtk
[15:02] <brendand> evfool - not possible to assign a bug to it though. i think that's a project page anyway, not necessarily a package
[15:03] <brendand> i guess it may be https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0 ?
[15:04] <evfool> brendand:yep, that's it
[15:20] <kees> Laney: you mentioned it were interested in the TB meeting? we're moving it 2 hours earlier, fyi
[15:21] <Laney> kees: righto. I'm just interested in hearing the outcome to my mail really :-)
[15:21] <Laney> thanks for letting me know
[15:21] <kees> okay :)
[15:36] <pitti> james_w: do you know whether status.u.c. publishes the db files anywhere? I need the current one for debugging
[15:36] <pitti> james_w: I can't access viburnum.canonical.com
[15:37] <james_w> pitti, I didn't change that code, so it does
[15:37] <pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/oneiric.db doesn't exist
[15:37] <james_w> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/ubuntu-oneiric.db
[15:37] <pitti> oh, ubuntu-oneiric.db
[15:37] <pitti> *headdesk*, sorry
[15:37] <pitti> thanks!
[15:37] <james_w> np
[15:38] <pitti> james_w: we retargeted a whole bunch of oneiric specs to p, and the tables updated properly, but not the charts
[15:38] <james_w> hmm
[15:38] <pitti> james_w: I suppose the charts still count the dropped WIs somehow
[15:38] <james_w> not sure what would cause that
[15:39] <james_w> pitti, you did it by changing the series on the blueprints?
[15:39] <pitti> yes
[15:39] <pitti> but I suppose that didn't clean the specs from the db
[15:39] <james_w> hmm
[15:40] <pitti> I'm still not quite sure what happened
[15:40] <pitti> just that we dropped some 50 WIs, and there's no visible dent at all on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
[15:43] <pitti> hm, on second look I actually can't find any inconsistency in the numbers
[15:45] <pitti> I'll just do an experiment
[15:47] <pitti> james_w: do you know when the WI tracker cron fires?
[15:48] <james_w> pitti, *:33
[15:48] <pitti> james_w: thanks
[15:51] <pitti> tseliot: if [ "$1" = install -o "$1" = upgrade ] && [ -z "$2" ]
[15:55] <mdeslaur> mvo: any availability to talk about the stuff we didn't get around to talking about?
[16:11] <slangasek> cnd: can x11proto-input 2.0.2-2 be merged?
[16:12] <mneptok> @conference/canonical  <--- All-Hands? a sprint?
[16:12] <udevbot_> Error: "conference/canonical" is not a valid command.
[16:12] <mneptok> udevbot_: sit down you pile of persnickety Python.
[16:12] <udevbot_> Error: "sit" is not a valid command.
[16:13] <cjwatson> mneptok: platform rally
[16:14] <cjwatson> (nee sprint)
[16:14] <StevenK> Don't forget LP
[16:14] <mvo> mdeslaur: I will come over at 17:00 or tomorow morning, is that ok?
[16:14] <cjwatson> oh yes
[16:14] <mdeslaur> mvo: sounds good, thanks
[16:15] <mneptok> that's some coincidence. i just bought "Platform Rally" for the PS3.
[16:15] <StevenK> Indeed, we're doing a bunch of good work. Unless you're infinity.
[16:15] <StevenK> That came out wrong. :-(
[16:15] <mneptok> StevenK: welcome to my world.
[16:16] <StevenK> mneptok: You should see a doctor for that.
[16:16] <mneptok> StevenK: i tried. the doctor said solving that issue is like putting a Band-Aid on an amputee. :/
[16:20] <cnd> slangasek, I'm not sure what you're asking?
[16:21] <cnd> I'm sure it could be merged, it looks like a bug fix according to the version numbers
[16:21] <cnd> there could be conflicts, but I'd be surprised if there were
[16:26] <slangasek> cnd: I'm asking if it's safe to merge the new upstream version; you're listed on https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html as the last person to touch it, I haven't looked at the delta at all and don't know if from your perspective there's a risk of regressions caused by pulling the new upstream version
[16:36] <cnd> slangasek, let me take a look at debian's changes, but I can't imagine it would be a problem
[16:36] <cnd> my patch to x11proto-input is pretty large though :)
[16:36] <cnd> it includes the prototype xinput 2.1 support
[16:37] <cnd> but that should be rather self-contained away from the rest of xinput 2.0 and earlier stuff
[16:41] <cnd> slangasek, looks like it should be fine save for one trivial conflict
[16:41] <cnd> I pushed a small patch upstream that landed in 2.0.2
[16:41] <cnd> that change was rolled up as part of my 1_xi2.1.patch, instead of being a separate patch
[16:42] <cnd> I should have made it a separate patch back when I added it :(
[16:43] <cnd> removing lines 94-101 (a small diff hunk) of 1_xi2.1.patch should do the trick
[16:49] <slangasek> bdmurray: /usr/share/apport/general-hooks/ubuntu.py
[17:06] <apw> pitti: do you know how often the ddebs.ubuntu.com packages files are rebuilt ?
[17:07] <pitti> 10 3,7,11,15,19,23
[17:07] <pitti> apw: ^ for oneiric
[17:07] <apw> pitti: and for older releases ?
[17:08] <pitti> 10 2,10,18
[17:08] <apw> pitti: thanks :)
[17:48] <sveinse> What is the difference between dh_install and dh_auto_install ?
[17:49] <cjwatson> have you read the man pages?  they have quite good descriptions
[17:52] <sveinse> Yes, but admit skimming them. Let me rephrase: dh_install handles the debian/install files while, dh_auto_install takes care of calling make install, right?
[18:01] <sveinse> I have a rule here where I override install. How should I pass $DESTDIR to the target makefile?    override_dh_auto_install:  \n   make INSTALL_ROOT=$(DESTDIR) install      does not work, INSTALL_ROOT is empty
[18:16] <cjwatson> sveinse: dh_install/dh_auto_install> right, that's a good summary
[18:19] <sveinse> It seems DESTDIR environment variable is not set when going into the override_dh_auto_install rule
[18:29] <sveinse> Hmm. I'm clueless and google doesn't tell me much.
[18:29] <sveinse> How do you guys handle install if the Makefile wants to install to INSTALL_ROOT instead of DESTDIR?
[18:30] <sveinse> Can't patch Makefile, as it's auto generated
[18:31] <slangasek> sveinse: patch the non-auto-generated source file
[18:32] <sveinse> This is a Qt application. That would mean to patch upstream qmake in another package...
[18:32] <nigelb> sveinse: look at how other qt apps have been done maybe?
[18:33] <nigelb> "apt-cache search qt" may give you a few pointers of other qt-based applications
[18:34] <sveinse> Doing a quick search of qt4-x11 sources, it seems qmake is not patched for chaning INSTALL_ROOT to DESTDIR at least. Checking apps...
[18:35] <sveinse> But override_dh_auto_install of qt4-x11 reveals it:   $(MAKE) install INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/
[18:36] <sveinse> Not what I expected thou
[18:39] <slangasek> sveinse: oh, sorry - INSTALL_ROOT and DESTDIR are equivalent except for the name?  Yeah, no need to patch that, the described override is pretty much what one would expect
[18:39] <slangasek> (provided that dh_auto_install doesn't actually know how to detect qmake)
[18:41] <sveinse> Hmm. Not quite. If I remove my override_dh_auto_install, I see dh running "make -j1 install DESTDIR=/home/user/packages/lmas/debian/lmas", while the above override uses debian/tmp
[18:47] <cjwatson> sveinse: that depends on the dh compat level; with a modern package, $(CURDIR)/debian/lmas is correct
[18:47] <cjwatson> it also differs for multi-binary packages
[18:48] <cjwatson> qt4-x11 is unlikely to be a good example to refer to for Qt *application* packaging
[19:03] <sveinse> cjwatson: This should be a single-binary package. Are there any other places than debian/control that control if it's a multi or single binary package?
[19:05] <cjwatson> sveinse: nope
[19:06] <sveinse> Given a newer dh compat level and if $(CURDIR)/debian/lmas is correct, then I need to find my own package name unless I want to hardcode the latter "lmas" part of the path
[19:07] <cjwatson> $(shell dh_listpackages)
[19:07] <cjwatson> (assuming single-binary)
[19:09] <sveinse> excellent, now things look better. Thanks
[19:57] <carldani> Hi!
[20:05] <carldani> I'm not familiar with the development process of Ubuntu. I read the wiki, but I'm still a bit unsure about the significance of DebianImportFreeze.
[20:07] <carldani> The flashrom package in Debian unstable is a bit outdated and the release of a new upstream flashrom version is expected to happen in the next few weeks. Is there a chance to get that new (mostly bugfixes) flashrom version included in Oneiric, and if so, can it be made a copy of the Debian flashrom package which is hopefully updated directly after the flashrom release?
[20:12] <geser> carldani: DebianImportFreeze only means that automatic copies of packages Debian -> Ubuntu will stop, once the updated flashrom package is in Debian someone has to request a sync from Debian (assuming the upload to Debian happens between DebianImportFreeze and FeatureFreeze)
[20:18] <carldani> geser: Thanks for the info!


[17:55] <Turl> newz2000: hi
[18:21] <ryanakca> mdke: ping, a few questions about the wikitheme... why does footerlinks have two returns? (return html\n return u'')
[18:41] <ryanakca> mdke: also... what can I do about http://paste.ubuntu.com/98436/ ?
[18:55] <ryanakca> mdke: ... and where can I find all the custom html? (self.cfg.page_*)


[15:05] -BottyMcBotFace:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Open Source Graphics App MyPaint 2.0 Released with Major Improvements @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=163661 (by Joey Sneddon)
[20:59] <Bashing-om> UWN618 up for review and final edits: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue618 :D
[21:19] <krytarik> Bashing-om: Now the headers are off in the New Members and Developers section, because the individual entries didn't use to have their own.  And I don't think the Whisker Menu release (iirc also the third in a row in about week) is relevant enough to the Ubuntu community as a whole to feature it in the UWN at all, but if you do want to include it, 1.) not sure where to put it instead, but ...
[21:19] <krytarik> ... given the former I don't think that the Other Community News section is fitting, 2.) drop the "ANNOUNCE:" bit, since that's simply prepended by the mailing list it was posted to (and the screaming effect of this doesn't belong in the newsletter either).
[21:28] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Ack. Make up the new edit list and will reconsider ups.
[23:55] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Wild_Man: had a chance to look over the WIKI ? so far: fix 1 - edit 1 .
[23:56] <guiverc> nope, hadn't though of it (wasn't online when you probably posted it was 'up')
[23:57] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Just a gentle prod :P
[23:58] <guiverc> wiki opened now anyway :)   prods are useful for me; I'd forget my head if it weren't attached
[23:58] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I am the most disorganized oranized person I know .


[10:04] <Furai> jbicha | check the Exec= line of your firefox dev .desktop  << check what about it? They are completely different paths.


[18:17] <arraybolt3> There's a user, "zasalamel" in #ubuntu who is doing very strange off-topic things (typing lines like "pruzenn tap in your keyboard [sudo==restart==main==serverX==youtube.com==server==last==save]"). I don't know what his intention is, but it looks strange and out-of-line. He has so far ignored attempts to get his attention and get him back on-topic, as far as I can tell.
[18:24] <krytarik> arraybolt3: I'm also monitoring them now, thanks!
[18:25] <arraybolt3> +1
[18:26] <hggdh> my guess is they typed it on the wrong channel
[18:30] <krytarik> It certainly looks like that, with all their messages being prefixed with what looks like a nick (who isn't present in #ubuntu), but even then the combination of words seems odd.. :3


[00:00] <akk> grub 1 from grub2: quite a bit. Various grub2 versions so far: not all that different.
[00:02] <pleia2> Corey: cool :)
[00:03] <bkerensa> =o
[01:07] <Arnautovic> Hello
[03:16] <em> Is sn9 here?
[14:53] <cjohnston> .17
[19:00] <pleia2> sf ubuntu hour and debian dinner tonight \o/
[19:01] <jtatum> \o/
[19:45] <greg-g> sorry I'll miss it :(
[20:11] <pleia2> greg-g: maybe next time :)
[20:25] <greg-g> definitely. I want to go to one of those debian dinners
[21:44] <jledbetter> pleia2: jtatum and I are pondering it. Looking at ye ol' public transportation.
[21:45] <pleia2> jledbetter: best way is caltrain and then either walk .8 mile or take MUNI to montgomery station
[21:46] <pleia2> MUNI takes longer because it goes the long way, I tend to walk unless it's dark out (don't love walking very far alone at night, even in "safe" areas)
[21:46] <bkerensa> :(
[21:47] <bkerensa> I think I have broken my ubuntu install and I dont want to reboot for fear of not being able to boot back in
[21:47] <bkerensa> :P
[21:47] <bkerensa> I installed kubuntu-desktop and then purged it but it nuked some gnome and unity stuff
[21:48] <jledbetter> pleia2: Yeah it'll be dark. But I can protect James.
[21:49] <akk> bkerensa: Maybe reinstall ubuntu-desktop?
[21:49] <bkerensa> akk: It is installed but I know there is like ubuntu-desktop-essential?
[21:50] <pleia2> jledbetter :)
[21:51] <akk> bkerensa: What do you think is broken?
[21:51] <pleia2> I'll be down in Mt View next Thursday, but going to BayLISA rather than the ubuntu hour s:(
[21:51] <pleia2> -s
[21:51] <akk> Ah, I was wondering if there was a MV UH coming up.
[21:51] <pleia2> the chief architect of OpenLDAP is speaking at baylug
[21:51] <pleia2> err baylisa
[21:52] <bkerensa> akk: Idk somehow removing kde stuffs killed spotify and a few others apps like chromium
[21:52] <jledbetter> pleia2: Aw. Well, I understand. :)
[21:52] <pleia2> I saw him speak a couple years ago at the UKUUG conference in london
[21:54] <jledbetter> Cool
[21:54] <akk> Doesn't chromium use qt? so maybe kde took the qt libs with it. (No idea what spotify might use.)
[23:45] <pleia2> I am all event planned out, but if someone else wants to coordinate a global jam this time around that'd be lovely :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[23:59] <greg-g> pleia2: where are our normal/usual spaces to host a jam?
[23:59] <MarkDude> For SF, Thirsty Bear


[06:34] <dholbach> good morning
[06:35] <Kilos> hi dholbach svij and others
[06:35] <dholbach> hi Kilos
[07:32] <davidcalle> Good morning o/
[07:33] <Kilos> hi davidcalle
[07:33] <Kilos> and dpm
[07:33] <dpm> morning
[07:37] <dholbach> salut davidcalle
[07:37] <dholbach> hey dpm
[07:41] <tsimonq2> o/ Kilos and dpm, how are you both?
[07:49] <dpm> good good, and you?
[07:56] <svij> good morning all
[07:58] <tsimonq2> great dpm_ :)
[07:58] <tsimonq2> svij: o/ how are you?
[07:58] <svij> tsimonq2: fine fine and you?
[07:59] <Kilos> hi  tsimonq2 ok ty and you?
[07:59] <tsimonq2> great svij, Kilos :)
[08:00] <Mister_Q> morning o/
[08:01] <svij> hey Mister_Q
[08:24] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:38] <popey> o/
[08:41] <tsimonq2> hey all o/
[19:03] <Kilos> wb inetpro


[00:07] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, yeah, and then there were about 3  or 4 major bugs that were reported on it
[00:08] <bjsnider> so much for a "long term release" or whatever they're calling it
[00:08] <Sarvatt> the gnome-shell problems?
[00:23] <bjsnider> yeah, plus there's one guy saying a game crashes
[00:23] <bjsnider> and otehr stuff i can't remember now
[00:23] <bjsnider> every distro too, not just ubuntu


[05:23] <CabbageMan69> Hello all. I'm having some problems turning on debugging info for cloud-init on an instance in EC2. Is it as simple as having "verbose:\n  debug: true" in the cloud-init config?
[05:25] <CabbageMan69> I'm getting the following two lines of output in my cloud-init-output.log file with that config present, and I see the following two lines ... not sure what is happening between those two steps that causes it to take 2 minutes
[05:25] <CabbageMan69> Cloud-init v. 0.7.5 running 'modules:config' at Mon, 23 May 2016 05:02:58 +0000. Up 35.99 seconds. Cloud-init v. 0.7.5 running 'modules:final' at Mon, 23 May 2016 05:05:08 +0000. Up 166.10 seconds.
[05:26] <CabbageMan69> For context, I'm using Ubuntu 14.04 and I'm running v0.7.5 of cloud-init (is this ancient?)
[15:03] <cpaelzer> smoser: Hi, I extended the MP at https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/cloud-init/test-apt-source/+merge/294521
[15:04] <cpaelzer> it has now the dictionary based handling and all kind of tests around it
[15:04] <cpaelzer> smoser: I'll check tomorrow if I need to revise it a lot / a bit  / not - and will start to poke at the curtin portion of it then
[15:05] <cpaelzer> smoser: I'll expect to have some questions tomorrow when you come online, but will let you know then
[17:25] <harlowja> rharper ya that's def where the complexity comes from ;)
[17:25] <harlowja> and/or figuring out sysconfig for myself, and its weirdness :-P
[17:27] <rharper> harlowja: hehe
[17:27] <harlowja> rharper although i think https://gist.github.com/harlowja/d63a36de0b405d83be9bd3222a5454a7/ is mostly there, just eyes on that would be cool
[17:27] <harlowja> let me know if it looks dumb :-P
[17:27] <harlowja> https://gist.github.com/harlowja/d63a36de0b405d83be9bd3222a5454a7/#file-sysconfig-py-L320 is the main stuffs
[17:28] <harlowja> oddly i don't think redhat has a way to configure routes without an interface
[17:28] <harlowja> or at least i'm not sure if there is one
[17:31] <rharper> harlowja: I gave it a once over the other day; it looks quite reasonable (cleaner than my initial cut); looking to steal a lot of that;  we may find with the two implementations (and a networkd coming) that we have a base set of hooks that new config backends would implement
[17:31] <harlowja> cool
[17:33] <rharper> the networkd does change things up quite a bit as there is no single file to write, rather multiple files (.link for name mapping) (.network for networks which may or maynot be device specific) and (.netdev for virtual devices like bridges and bonds);  so the in-order processing that happens for eni and sysconfig don't have to apply but certainly can.
[17:34] <harlowja> ya, sysconfig also doesn't have single files
[17:34] <harlowja> only eni i think has a single file
[17:35] <rharper> ok
[17:35] <rharper> bbiab
[17:46] <harlowja> smoser rharper can we (or shall i?) merge in https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/cloud-init-net-refactor
[17:46] <harlowja> that way this sysconfig stuff (which that uses as a base) ; can start to get reviewed more offically :-P
[17:47]  * harlowja doesn't know to well how to stack things in bzr (against a branch that hasn't merged yet)
[17:51] <smoser> harlowja, can you write at very least a combined commit message and description there ?
[17:51] <smoser> is it all just "refactor" did you clean up the N different internal states ?
[17:51] <harlowja> sure boss
[17:51] <harlowja> ummm, let me check
[17:51] <harlowja> mostly refactor :-P
[21:05] <harlowja> ok, updated https://gist.github.com/harlowja/d63a36de0b405d83be9bd3222a5454a7 rharper if u want to see
[21:09] <rharper> looking
[21:14] <rharper> harlowja: nice, lines 34 -> 70ish look like cloudinit.net common stuff that all backends could use
[21:15] <harlowja> def
[21:24] <rharper> harlowja: nit: L82 in the header you say on %(now)s ; would  'at' or '@' be more natural ?  L324 render_dns;  you have it as a pass, but I'd think the signature would need to take a list object to append something if/when it ever did support updating dns;
[21:24] <harlowja> sure
[21:24] <harlowja> rharper  yup yup, dns not done yet ;)
[21:26] <harlowja> let me get that in a more offical place, ha
[21:31] <harlowja> ok smoser added nice handy commit message in https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/cloud-init-net-refactor/+merge/293957 :-P
[21:32] <rharper> and at the risk of exposing my ignorance;  a few of the render methods are @classmethod ;  but it doesn't appear that they're used outside of other methods within the class; what's that doing ?
[21:32] <harlowja> ya, more or less just a thing i've gotten used to, no need to pass self around if not using it for those
[21:33] <harlowja> and if don't need any class attributes, then just doing staticmethod
[21:33] <harlowja> can make them all instance methods, but got in the habit of not doing that and using the right decorator
[21:33] <rharper> I see, you didn't explicitly need to reference anything in the instance s?
[21:33] <harlowja> nah
[21:34] <rharper> gotcha
[21:34] <rharper> w.r.t quoting, my reading on ConfigParser and INI is that no quoting should be needed; anything after the Variable= is included in the value ...
[21:34] <harlowja> hmmmm, i thought most of these sysconfig files were just 'sourced' into scripts
[21:35] <rharper> oh
[21:35] <rharper> hehe
[21:35] <rharper> I forgot
[21:35] <rharper> the bash scripts
[21:35] <rharper> you're right for sysconfig
[21:36] <harlowja> ya, i didn't think sysconfig stuff was very smart, lol
[21:36] <harlowja> and it all eventually gets parsed by some shell scripts, lol
[21:37] <harlowja> so without doing quoting things go bad (especially with whitespace)
[21:38] <harlowja> ie like https://gist.github.com/harlowja/5f9b3008d20d2668e8bcfc28eb491955#file-gistfile1-txt-L102
[21:39] <harlowja> why it was done like this, who knows
[21:40] <rharper> yeah
[21:40] <rharper> I was just confused
[21:40] <rharper> sysconfig is huge legacy
[21:40] <harlowja> def
[21:41] <rharper> at the same time, the guts of ifupdown are ... harder to read than the in-line awk in sysconfig so no leg to stand on there
[21:45] <harlowja> lol
[21:46] <harlowja> ya, it's all one big mess imho
[21:46] <harlowja> guess thats why systemd :-P
[21:51] <rharper> one mess + second mess => systemd ?  not sure what we expect then
[21:51] <rharper> magic ?
[21:51] <harlowja> :)
[21:51]  * rharper sprinkles some systemd magic around
[21:51] <rharper> I do know that we'll now be told there _is_ one TRUE way
[21:51] <rharper> whether that's right or not; at least you have an answer
[21:51] <harlowja> ha
[21:51] <harlowja> ya
[22:10] <harlowja> mgagne if u get a chance can u look over https://gist.github.com/harlowja/d63a36de0b405d83be9bd3222a5454a7
[22:10] <harlowja> its my creation, based off in part https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mgagne/cloud-init-fedora-pkg/epel7/cloud-init-0.7.5-network-info-support.patch + the refactored stuffs
[22:10] <harlowja> pretty sure its right, and u can just feed it a openstack json file and see what is output
[22:10] <harlowja> $ python sysconfig.py test.json
[22:10] <harlowja> for example
[22:22] <dmsimard> harlowja: neat, I'll look too.
[22:22] <harlowja> thx
[22:22] <harlowja> https://gist.github.com/harlowja/d63a36de0b405d83be9bd3222a5454a7#file-sysconfig-py-L406 == the main function that thinks get started from
[22:26] <dmsimard> harlowja: just to be sure, what version of cloud init am I supposed to be running ?
[22:27] <harlowja> a unmerged branch ;)
[22:27] <dmsimard> (for the imports)
[22:27] <dmsimard> ehhh, how do I set that up ?
[22:27] <harlowja> https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/cloud-init-net-refactor/+merge/293957
[22:27] <harlowja> that one
[22:28] <dmsimard> can you zip it somewhere or something ? Afraid my bzr skills are pretty awesome (not)
[22:28] <harlowja> sure
[22:29] <harlowja> dmsimard actually u should just be able to run
[22:29] <harlowja> bzr branch lp:~harlowja/cloud-init/cloud-init-net-refactor cloud-init
[22:29] <harlowja> that will get u the branch
[22:30] <harlowja> (into a folder called 'cloud-init')
[22:30] <dmsimard> ok
[22:30] <dmsimard> let me see..
[22:31]  * dmsimard installs bzr ... and shivers
[22:32] <harlowja> lol
[22:33] <harlowja> try a few json files (from openstack); let me know if anything looks really crazy (it might be crazy)
[22:34] <harlowja> since things like https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/initscripts.git/plain/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-eth are crazy
[22:34] <dmsimard> harlowja: it's not crazy, it's empty :)
[22:34] <dmsimard> sec
[22:34] <harlowja> lol
[22:34] <harlowja> k
[22:35] <harlowja> running stuff like $ python sysconfig.py test.json  will just output to stdout btw
[22:35] <harlowja> it doesn't write anywhere yet
[22:35] <dmsimard> harlowja: https://gist.github.com/dmsimard/d6eaa8b61f3c601d833b29ef430637da this is what I'm testing against
[22:35] <harlowja> k let me try
[22:35] <dmsimard> and this is my output: http://paste.openstack.org/show/498378/
[22:36] <harlowja> yup, looks like that to me also, ha
[22:36] <harlowja> ok, let me see where things went here
[22:36] <dmsimard> I have the full config drive if you want, it may or may not be the one I think I may have provided you last time
[22:36] <harlowja> oh i know
[22:37] <harlowja> let me see, def seems like it should have more :-P
[22:37] <harlowja> one of these other format layers killing the interfaces there
[22:37] <harlowja> will figure that out
[22:38] <dmsimard> fwiw that's a mitaka config drive, if it's different or anything, no clue
[22:38] <harlowja> k
[22:39] <harlowja> u can try the example in https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1514082
[22:39] <harlowja> i was trying that one also
[22:39] <harlowja> as i figure out which layer dropped the info in your file
[22:40] <dmsimard> harlowja: ah, yup, that one works fine
[22:41] <dmsimard> harlowja: the whole config drive is @ https://dmsimard.com/disk.config if you want to peek at it.
[22:41] <harlowja> np, not needed i think, just that one file is what matters here
[22:43] <dmsimard> you should add my network_data.json to your unit tests in test_network_config_conversions after you figure it out :)
[22:43] <harlowja> ya
[22:44] <harlowja> ya, ok, sooo might have to poke rharper on this one
[22:45] <harlowja> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/cloudinit/net/network_state.py#L239 is puking on your date
[22:45] <harlowja> primarily because http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/cloudinit/net/network_state.py#L266 keys don't exist
[22:46] <harlowja> and in the openstack version, they aren't getting translated ...
[22:46] <dmsimard> I updated my gist to be pretty printed :p https://gist.github.com/dmsimard/d6eaa8b61f3c601d833b29ef430637da
[22:46] <harlowja> and i'm not quite sure what they should translate to/from
[22:46] <harlowja> it seems like that code is looking for bridge_interfaces and then interfaces (two sets of interfaces)
[22:46] <harlowja> where your example only has one :-P
[22:46] <harlowja> so what does it bridge to :-P
[22:47] <dmsimard> it's a vm on a linuxbridge environment
[22:47] <harlowja> right
[22:47] <dmsimard> the vm doesn't have to configure any bridge
[22:47] <dmsimard> it's done on the compute node
[22:48] <harlowja> sure
[22:48] <harlowja> but from my understanding of that code, its looking for a interface definitions of what to bridge to what else
[22:49] <harlowja> so i'm not sure the mapping of http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/cloudinit/net/network_state.py#L239 and what openstack provides (is data missing?)
[22:50] <harlowja> what happens is that your json file first goes into a intermediarty format that is '[{'subnets': [{u'routes': [{u'netmask': u'<IP_ADDRESS>', u'network': u'<IP_ADDRESS>', u'gateway': u'<IP_ADDRESS>'}], u'netmask': u'<IP_ADDRESS>', u'type': 'static', 'ipv4': True, 'address': u'<IP_ADDRESS>'}], 'name': u'tap1a81968a-79', 'mac_address': u'fa:16:3e:ed:9a:59', u'type': 'bridge', 'mtu': None}, {u'type': 'nameserver', u'address': u'<IP_ADDRESS>'}]'
[22:50] <dmsimard> So you have a network_data.json that's linuxbridge (mine) and the one you provided from the bug is from an ovs setup. It's a pretty good test to ensure both work well.
[22:50] <dmsimard> The OVS one you linked also has the notion of links
[22:51] <harlowja> which then gets processed by that code into another intermediary format and then that format is what the sysconfig.py stuff works on
[22:51] <harlowja> right, something is off/missing in the handle_bridge stuff here
[22:51] <dmsimard> The links are probably just interfaces on the compute node (bridge tap) and the networks are bridged to these links on the compute node
[22:53] <harlowja> ya, i'm gonna delegate to rharper on this one, unsure what the expected openstack translation is for that to correctly work
[22:53] <dmsimard> I'm off for the day, let me know if you find out and I'll poke at it some more .. I could even pitch a few VMs at it with the real thing :)
[22:54] <harlowja> ya, eventually we'll get there ;)


[02:57] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i'm just grabbing a coffee, will be a few minutes
[02:57] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok
[03:17] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: righto, meet in 1:1?
[03:17] <babbageclunk> yup yup
[03:18] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: if you have a chance this arvo, here's a 2.3.5 bug fix i'd like to get in for the release https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8527
[03:33]  * anastasiamac looking
[03:56] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: rather than making it something the test needs to do, I just don't return the server until the handlers have been registered.
[03:56] <wallyworld> that sounds reasonable to me
[03:57] <babbageclunk> ok, shall we wait until the tests pass or start now?
[04:07] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: hmm, it looks like the apiserver tests are good now, but my run's going to fail with the show-output test again.
[04:07] <babbageclunk> I'm chasing that down
[04:07] <wallyworld> ok
[04:08] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: i updated the PR with a new commit to fix another related bug
[04:09] <anastasiamac> k
[04:54] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok, cracked it - the tests are running now but I'm doner for day so I guess we're reviewing it tomorrow!
[04:55] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: great! look forward to tomorrow
[06:41] <jam> wallyworld: bug #1758828 we had a test suite failure from CAAS stuff. It seems something assumes we'll call Watch then Life, but somehow Watch happened very late.
[06:41] <mup> Bug #1758828: intermittent failure caasoperator_test.go WorkerSuite.TestWorkerDownloadsCharm <intermittent-failure> <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758828>
[06:43] <wallyworld> jam: ok, i'll take a look
[08:06] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: i added an additional test to the PR; let me know if there's anything else
[08:13] <manadart> What does valid/invalid do as a directive in placement?
[08:36] <jam> manadart: as in, an 'invalid placement directive' or are you saying you can "juju deploy --to invalid" (literal "invalid")
[08:37] <manadart> jam: as in https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/apiserver/facades/client/highavailability/highavailability_test.go#L320
[08:39] <manadart> I also see valid/invalid used in .../facades/client/application/application_test.go
[08:41] <jam> manadart: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/provider/dummy/environs.go#L673
[08:41] <jam> manadart: seems to be very specific that Dummy provider supports a placement directive of "valid", but only that
[08:42] <manadart> jam: Got it. Ta.
[14:02] <manadart> For review: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8530
[14:34] <jam> small pr for review: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8528
[15:34] <manadart> PR for 2.3: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8531
[15:36] <manadart> I am EoD, so if it is approved, it can be merged to make the 2.3.5 release tomorrow (AEDT).
[16:39] <cmars> morning juju folks! can someone please review a small PR, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8520 ?
[16:40] <cmars> this adds (non-authoritative, but highly informative) model names to metrics, which gives us an idea of nice display names for certain models in jaas
[16:42] <cmars> balloons: ^^


[13:42] <rcj> sil2100: Would you have time to look at the livecd-rootfs xenial SRU today?
[13:50] <sil2100> Sure o/
[13:57] <sil2100> bdmurray, juliank: hey! Could one of you upload a new python-apt with the mirror lists updated etc. for .2?
[14:08] <juliank> sil2100: yes
[14:10] <rcj> sil2100: Thank you!
[14:12] <rcj> vorlon: We have an interesting question regarding the 'unminimize' script in livecd-rootfs today in lp: #1912595.  The user take the minimal image, customizes the image, and then from that wants to master a production image (as-is) and a developer image by running unminimize.  Their customizations install things with -no-install-recommends.  They'd like a change to unminimize to allow that to be passed
[14:12] <rcj> through.  Thoughts?
[14:17] <vorlon> rcj: they can set that in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d instead; I don't think it should be part of the unminimize tool, when recommends are installed by default for a reason
[14:18] <rcj> Ah, that would work.  I'll make that recommendation.  I like that better than adding a flag to the unminimize script.
[15:23] <juliank> sil2100: python-apt uploaded
[15:48] <bdmurray> sil2100: my thought was there was a security update a couple of weeks ago so that should be good
[16:11] <juliank> bdmurray: that was early December when we updated the mirror list, the regression update only fixed the regression
[16:11] <juliank> Hence I pushed an update to proposed for the mirror list
[16:16] <sil2100> juliank, bdmurray: thanaks!
[16:16] <sil2100> *thanks
[16:17] <bdmurray> juliank: alright, I'll look closer next time!
[16:17] <bdmurray> sil2100: Are you going to review it?
[16:19] <sil2100> bdmurray: could you take a look at it? Since I'm doing an SRU publishing round first - and afterwards I might have another SRU review for you!
[16:23] <bdmurray> sil2100: I'll review python-apt and ubiquity for Focal.
[16:25] <sil2100> Thank you! Wait with the ubiquity review, I'll quickly release what's in -proposed
[16:26] <sil2100> Ok, ubiquity now released, you can proceed
[16:33] <juliank> bdmurray: I plan to rename apt apport hook file DpkgHistoryLog to AptHistoryLog so I can include actual dpkg.log as DpkgLog
[16:33] <juliank> Also I plan to add AptEIPPLog and AptEDSPLog
[16:33] <juliank> because that's the stuff that really matters
[16:33] <juliank> :D
[16:34] <juliank> Not sure if that needs work anywhere
[16:34] <juliank> but DpkgHistoryLog is so confusingly named, it's not helpful
[16:34] <juliank> EIPP log contains the log from the installation planner, allowing to reproduce installation ordering issues
[16:35] <juliank> EDSP log is the same for dependency solving
[16:35] <juliank> I want to get to the point where if stuff fails to resolve, we get an EDSP/EIPP log such that we can feed the tool with it and don't need apt-clone system states to reproduce
[16:35] <juliank> as apt can consume those problems directly and solve them
[16:36] <bdmurray> juliank: hmm, something might be looking at DpkgHistoryLog.
[16:36] <juliank> But I need to do some digging to figure out if I actually get the eipp/edsp logs i'm interested in from the hook or whether they were from a previous run :D
[16:37] <juliank> bdmurray: OK; it's not super urgent, just something on my mind for some time in the future
[22:03] <tjaalton> sergiodj: hi, 389 logs should show more, re: dogtag error
[22:22] <sergiodj> tjaalton: hi.  ok, I'll try to look into it when I have more time
[22:22] <sergiodj> thanks


[00:56] <JPeterson> can i apply a git patch to bzr? including author and comment?
[00:56] <JPeterson> is that in the git plugin?
[00:56] <JPeterson> jelmer:
[01:06] <jelmer> JPeterson: 'bzr git-apply' does some of that
[01:06] <jelmer> JPeterson: it doesn't cope with new files at all though
[01:06] <JPeterson> thx
[01:06] <jelmer> (and is still very experimental in general)
[01:07] <jelmer> JPeterson: in other words, use with care
[02:24] <JPeterson> jelmer how do i bzr pull --rebase?
[02:24] <JPeterson> i want to pull a remote branch to a new branch
[02:24] <jelmer> there is 'bzr rebase --pull' I think, perhaps that's what you mean?
[02:24] <JPeterson> so i created a new local branch to pull to
[02:25] <JPeterson> so it's " --pull' I think, perhaps that's what you mean?
[02:25] <JPeterson> [03:24] <JPeterson> so i create
[02:25] <JPeterson> ops
[02:25] <JPeterson> so it's "bzr rebase --pull lp:~john-peterson/calibre/context"?
[02:25] <JPeterson> that returns "bzr: ERROR: no such option: --pull"
[02:26] <jelmer> JPeterson: oh, actually I think the default 'bzr rebase does what you are asking about
[02:27] <jelmer> (or maybe it just tells you to pull if pulling is possible?)
[02:27] <JPeterson> ok i'll try "bzr rebase lp:~john-peterson/calibre/context"
[02:30] <JPeterson> it returns
[02:30] <JPeterson> Contents conflict in src/calibre/utils/fonts/subset.py
[02:30] <JPeterson> that's unexpected because rebase will not consider conflicts
[02:31] <JPeterson> how do i
[02:31] <JPeterson> Resolve the conflict and run 'bzr rebase-continue'
[02:32] <jelmer> JPeterson: I'm not sure I follow - rebase can cause conflicts in git too
[02:32] <JPeterson> how do i force revert rebase?
[02:32] <jelmer> "bzr rebase-abort"
[02:33] <JPeterson> why not bzr rebase-continue?
[02:35] <JPeterson> how do i resolve the conflict by using the remove version?
[02:35] <JPeterson> *remote
[02:36] <jelmer> JPeterson: if you mean to abort (iow, revert) the rebase, that's what 'bzr rebase-abort' does
[02:36] <jelmer> JPeterson: 'bzr rebase-continue' will continue the rebase once conflicts have been resolved
[02:36] <JPeterson> what i mean is ignore conflicts or use the remove version, and force it to complete
[02:36] <JPeterson> bzr resolve; bzr rebase-continue
[02:37] <JPeterson> return
[02:37] <JPeterson> Remaining conflicts:
[02:37] <JPeterson> Contents conflict in src/calibre/utils/fonts/subset.py.THIS
[02:37] <JPeterson> bzr: ERROR: There are still conflicts present. Resolve the conflicts and then run 'bzr resolve' and try again.
[02:37] <jelmer> JPeterson: see the help on 'bzr resolved'
[02:37] <jelmer> JPeterson: you need to resolve the conflicts by editing the file, or explicitly specify what you want to happen to 'bzr resolve'
[02:37] <JPeterson> so do i add a dot, as in and try again.
[02:37] <JPeterson> [03:36] <jelmer> J
[02:37] <JPeterson> ?ops
[02:38] <JPeterson> as in bzr resolve .
[02:38] <JPeterson> i did
[02:38] <jelmer> JPeterson: that doesn't matter; 'bzr resolve' will only mark things as resolved if the conflict markers are gone *or* if you have specified an explicit action to take
[02:38] <JPeterson> bzr resolve src/calibre/utils/fonts/subset.py.THIS
[02:38] <JPeterson> now
[02:38] <JPeterson> bzr resolve; bzr rebase-continue
[02:39] <JPeterson> return
[02:39] <JPeterson> Remaining conflicts:
[02:39] <JPeterson> Contents conflict in src/calibre/utils/fonts/subset.py.THIS.THIS
[02:39] <JPeterson> bzr: ERROR: There are still conflicts present. Resolve the conflicts and then run 'bzr resolve' and try again.
[02:39] <JPeterson> it added another .THIS, compared to the previous message
[02:39] <jelmer> JPeterson: you'd want to resolve the file itself, not its .THIS file
[02:39] <JPeterson> bzr resolved src/calibre/utils/fonts/subset.py
[02:39] <JPeterson> returns
[02:39] <JPeterson> src/calibre/utils/fonts/subset.py does not exist
[02:40] <JPeterson> 0 conflicts resolved, 1 remaining
[02:40] <JPeterson> i'll try
[02:40] <JPeterson> bzr uncommit -r-100
[02:40] <JPeterson> and try rebase again
[02:41] <JPeterson> maybe it will be easier to rebase forward
[02:52] <jelmer> rebase is almost exclusively useful for rebasing a few trivial local changes on top of an upstream branch
[02:52] <jelmer> it's not very advanced
[02:52] <jelmer> JPeterson: ^
[02:55] <JPeterson> jelmer: then i shouldnt use it checkout a remote branch
[02:55] <JPeterson> then i should uncommit the local branch to before the remote branch and pull it
[02:56] <JPeterson> jelmer: am i correct to assume that "bzr fast-export --plain .|git fast-import" will also convert bzr branches to git branches?
[02:57] <jelmer> JPeterson: that will convert a bzr branch to a git branch; not sure what you mean by "also" though
[02:59] <JPeterson> jelmer: how do i convert all bzr branches to git branches?
[03:03] <JPeterson> jelmer: whats the --export-marks and --import-marks for in http://dgleich.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/convert-bazaar-to-git/
[03:09] <JPeterson> why doesnt "man bzr fast-export" return what I want?
[03:09] <JPeterson> where is the bzr fast-export manual?
[03:16] <JPeterson> how do i access the repo from a different path?
[03:17] <JPeterson> accessing the repo from "~/shared.hgfs/source/Programs/calibre/repo" return "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/C:/Files/Source/Programs/calibre/repo/"."
[03:18] <JPeterson> can i change something to a relative path? or do need to change the full path? in that case where?
[03:18] <JPeterson> jelmer:
[03:19] <JPeterson> it seems like it's
[03:19] <JPeterson> cat .bzr/branch/location
[03:19] <JPeterson> that is related to that message
[03:20] <JPeterson> can i change
[03:20] <JPeterson> file:///C:/Files/Source/Programs/calibre/repo/
[03:20] <JPeterson> to
[03:20] <JPeterson> .
[03:24] <JPeterson> bzr switch context
[03:24] <JPeterson> return
[03:24] <JPeterson> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/mnt/hgfs/shared/source/Programs/calibre/repo/,branch=context/".
[03:25] <JPeterson> why? how do i fix it?
[03:26] <JPeterson> the goal is to run "bzr fast-export --plain --git-branch=context|git fast-import"
[03:29] <JPeterson> (from linux as running it from cygwin return "error: git-fast-import died of signal 11")
[03:30] <JPeterson> jelmer if you wont answer this, then answer this how do i move a bzr repo?
[03:30] <JPeterson> so that i can use it from another path
[03:32] <JPeterson> i.o.w. how do i deal with .bzr/branch/location?
[03:36] <JPeterson> where is the bzr 2.6 ppa?
[03:40] <JPeterson> "sudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:bzr/ppa" didnt update it to 2.6
[03:41] <JPeterson> ok it's "sudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:bzr/beta"
[03:43] <JPeterson> bzr branches
[03:43] <JPeterson> return
[03:43] <JPeterson> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/mnt/hgfs/shared/source/Programs/calibre/repo/,branch=context/".
[03:43] <JPeterson> how does it come to that conclusion?
[03:45] <JPeterson> so does "bzr switch context"
[03:47] <JPeterson> it seems like "bzr switch --force context" works
[03:48] <JPeterson> ah ok it needs to be "file:///mnt/hgfs/shared/source/Programs/calibre/repo/"
[06:31] <JPeterson> can i export bzr commits to a git patch?
[06:35] <mgrandi> piping bzr log to a file should create a patch file
[06:35] <mgrandi> so like bzr log -r 1..5 > someFile.patch
[06:43] <JPeterson> mgrandi: i want the comment, date, author
[06:44] <JPeterson> with git patch i mean "git format-patch"
[06:45] <JPeterson> the commit sha1 can be anything, it doesnt matter
[06:45] <JPeterson> it would be surprising if there was not a way to do this
[06:45] <JPeterson> because of how simple if would be
[06:46] <mgrandi> what do you mean format-patch, not familiar with it
[06:46] <mgrandi> like a patch file that you pass to git? or to patch
[06:47] <mgrandi> ?
[06:47] <JPeterson> it has patch, comment, date, author
[06:47] <JPeterson> and parent commit sha1 which is not necessary
[06:48] <JPeterson> so can i bzr fast-export a limited number of commits?
[06:48] <mgrandi> probably, using the -r revisionspec thing
[06:48] <JPeterson> the repo has many commits, 22k, and i only need the top 5
[06:48] <mgrandi> so bzr whatever -r -5..-1
[06:49] <JPeterson> the bzr fast-export manual doesn't say what -r does
[06:49] <JPeterson> why would i expect it to export r to head rather than init to r?
[06:51] <JPeterson> what's the revisionspec for the top five commits?
[06:52] <mgrandi> it says   -r ARG, --revision=ARG
[06:52] <mgrandi> it says to do bzr help revisionspec
[06:52] <mgrandi> and i told you, it was -r -5..-1 =P
[06:54] <mgrandi> also, this patch-format thing looks a lot like 'bzr testament --long"
[06:56] <mgrandi> or bzr send / bzr email
[07:28] <JPeterson> how can it be -r-1..-1? isn't that 0 commits?
[07:30] <JPeterson> omg it returns
[07:30] <JPeterson> warning: Not updating refs/heads/date (new tip bdf16f0ef570e6bb6e7e620899bee6f0edd69a81 does not contain 476e775c0e5ac5cb457f4c5ffe6a8ca50da662de)
[08:56] <JPeterson> how do i rename a branch?
[11:11] <LeoNerd> mv
[11:31] <Peng> bzr nick may also interest you
[12:35] <LarstiQ> JPeterson: if you have bzr-git, `bzr send` should have a git-format option iirc
[12:36] <JPeterson> LarstiQ: thx
[14:05] <JPeterson> bzr send --format=git
[14:05] <JPeterson> return
[14:05] <JPeterson>   File "C:/Program Files (x86)/Bazaar/plugins\git\send.py", line 121, in to_lines
[14:05] <JPeterson> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'splitlines'
[14:06] <JPeterson> additional trace is
[14:06] <JPeterson>   File "bzrlib\builtins.pyo", line 5824, in run
[14:06] <JPeterson>   File "bzrlib\send.pyo", line 136, in send
[14:06] <JPeterson>   File "bzrlib\merge_directive.pyo", line 348, in compose_merge_request
[14:07] <JPeterson> bzr 2.6b1 on python 2.6.6 (Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1)
[18:40] <Munchor> Hello
[18:40] <Munchor> Does bzr allow deleting commits?
[18:40] <Munchor> I know that with git+github I can actually delete like the last X commits. Can I do that with bzr+launchpad?
[18:42] <jelmer> Munchor: bzr uncommit
[18:43] <Munchor> bzr uncommit;bzr uncommit;
[18:43] <Munchor> that woudl delete 2 commits, right?
[18:46] <Munchor> And jelmer, bzr uncommit removes local commits, not commits on Launchpad AFAIK
[18:54] <LarstiQ> Munchor: bzr push --overwrite to launchpad will do that. Take note though that this will wreak havoc for anyone who already has a copy of what was on launchpad.
[18:54] <Munchor> >wreak havoc
[18:54] <Munchor> I don't fully understand that
[18:55] <LarstiQ> Munchor: be not nice
[18:55] <Munchor> I'm even more confused that
[18:56] <LarstiQ> Munchor: if you delete some commits, and then start developing from there again, your branch will have diverged from what other people had
[18:56] <LarstiQ> Munchor: so they can't simply `bzr pull` to get up to date
[18:56] <Munchor> Ooh I see
[18:56] <LarstiQ> and if they had done extra commits on top, merging their work in would resurrect the deleted commits
[18:57] <LarstiQ> Munchor: it's not the end of the world, but it's good to be aware of


[00:04] <pleia2> knome: I think something is wonky with html generation of our docs, guide-desktop.html for instance is empty
[00:05] <pleia2> (it's also possible I pulled down the wrong branch or something :))
[00:09] <Unit193> bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs/  ?
[00:11] <pleia2> just grabbed lp:xubuntu-docs
[00:30] <Unit193> Isn't that the 2008 outdated ones?
[00:32] <pleia2> no
[00:33] <pleia2> the theme is quite different, and the 2008 version wouldn't be mentioning 12.04 precise :P
[00:35] <Unit193> Try  lp:ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs  -  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs/quantal
[00:35] <xnox> pleia2: you made me cry with your talk.... "field trip to see the computer" and no deployments "because they have no electricity"
[00:36] <pleia2> xnox: it is pretty sad
[00:36] <xnox> pleia2: I think between all my gadgets I had 12 CPU cores in my bag during your talk =/
[00:38] <pleia2> I was carrying a few the day we visited that school, was tempting to pull out my netbook there but I think it would have caused the teachers more chaos than it was worth
[00:39] <xnox> pleia2: yeah.... that would be a bit cruel.
[00:40] <xnox> pleia2: how does it feel to be gods? Heck, after all, we do spin up clouds these days...
[00:41] <pleia2> xnox: I meant to show the kids a computer, not to show off
[00:41] <pleia2> chaos in that they would all be fighting to use it
[00:41] <xnox> pleia2: yeah, I got that.
[00:41] <pleia2> I don't think that would be "cruel" :\
[00:41] <pleia2> just didn't want to interrupt lessons
[00:42] <xnox> pleia2: but it would be a shock. Well they would not be able to keep it.
[00:42] <xnox> pleia2: nore use it. I am guessing if they go to school that has no electricity, their homes don't have electric either.
[00:43] <pleia2> I don't think exposing kids to technology is cruel, any exposure is good even if they can't keep it for themselves
[00:43] <xnox> ack.
[00:43] <pleia2> I had plenty of exposure to computers as a kid before we had one at home, or one that I could use at school, mostly at friend's houses and things
[00:43] <pleia2> I was thankful for the opportunities I had :)
[00:44] <xnox> yeah... =)
[00:51] <pleia2> Unit193: that worked better, thanks
[00:52] <Unit193> Sure, I'm pulling in the raring one, but I don't know what one we'd actually be working on or I'd switch to that.
[09:20] <knome> did somebody update the xubuntu summary for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-R/Summaries ? <3
[09:35] <knome> just a note for everybody developing xubuntu
[09:36] <knome> in the R cycle, most of the freezes are later than previously, but getting freeze exceptions is harder
[09:36] <knome> so please MAKE SURE you have your work done WELL BEFORE THE FREEZES
[09:46] <Unit193> So with automated testing, does that mean human testing will be harder?
[09:46] <knome> Unit193, nope.
[09:46] <Unit193> Deja vu.
[09:46] <Unit193> Alright, my guess was so because it's already doing the basics, but I know it does't have eyes.
[09:47] <knome> yeah, and there's no reason to make human testing harder
[09:48] <Unit193> Thinking that it would be pointless to duplicate work, but alrightyo.
[09:49] <knome> i can't see how that would be a problem
[09:49] <knome> in testing, the more tests you can do with different setups... the better
[09:50] <Unit193> Cool.
[09:52] <Unit193> Updated sync script.
[09:53] <knome> should get something to eat
[09:55] <Unit193> I already checked, there's only the banana bread.  (Which is rather good)
[09:56] <knome> we have lots of food in the fridge
[10:18] <astraljava> Yeah but your fridge isn't here.
[10:20] <Unit193> Nor here.
[10:27] <ochosi> knome: wb from uds!
[10:32] <knome> thanks!
[17:23] <Unit193> [xubuntu-team] See if we ship the Pidgin IRC client by default: TODO   We already ship pidgin IM client by default unit193@Sigma:~$ apt-cache show pidgin | grep Task  >  Task: xubuntu-desktop, lubuntu-desktop
[19:33] <knome> GridCube, you still up to writing the top faq for 12.10?
[19:33] <GridCube> knome, I've asked several times for help on topics
[19:34] <knome> GridCube, i know
[19:34] <GridCube> no answer whatsoever, i've been seen recuring questions lately tho
[19:34] <knome> GridCube, we all have a bit more time now
[19:34] <knome> GridCube, and less stress over the release :)
[19:34] <GridCube> the ones about gigolo for example
[19:34] <GridCube> :) ok ill ask again
[19:34] <knome> maybe you could send an email to the -devel list?
[19:34] <knome> i'll try to follow up ASAP
[19:35] <Unit193> Covered by release notes, but you still get the indicator and dupe ones.
[19:35] <knome> we can definitely add stuff that's been in the release notes, since some people just dismiss them anyway
[19:35] <knome> ailo, old nick :)
[19:36] <Unit193> Seen the non-PAE issue a few times, but pretty sure none were in #xubuntu >_>
[19:38] <GridCube> ive seen it in xubuntu aswel
[19:39] <GridCube> oh. i meant the new bios replacement, not non pae
[19:39] <GridCube> that uefi thing
[19:39] <GridCube> that might need a whole article by itself
[19:40] <GridCube> pointing the gazillion manuals and stuffs it needs to work most of the time
[19:40] <knome> maybe, but maybe not from xubuntu
[19:40] <GridCube> true that
[19:40] <GridCube> as said, not particularly a xubuntu thing, its a huge ubuntu thing though
[19:41] <knome> yup, some ubuntu docs people should step up for that maybe
[19:41] <Unit193> knome: See comment above about pidgin?
[19:42] <knome> Unit193, does that mean IRC is supported by default?
[19:42] <knome> Unit193, i mean we knew we ship pidgin, but irc...
[19:43] <Unit193> It works pretty much as well as it's going to with IRC.
[19:44] <knome> oki
[19:44] <knome> i can't remember why we wanted to check that
[19:44] <knome> but ok :D
[19:44] <knome> Unit193, can you add your own nick to the work item and mark it done? :P
[19:45] <knome> Unit193, and maybe add information in the roadmap that we have "pidgin with irc" in the def apps section
[20:00] <GridCube> mister k, do i send the mail to users aswel?
[20:00] <knome> GridCube, hmh, i'd say devel only for now
[20:01] <GridCube> kay
[20:01] <knome> but feel free to send -users too if you think it's useful
[20:02]  * knome thinks that people can the micro-level decision making themselves too :)
[20:04] <GridCube> knome, do i link them to the pad http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/QyW3FDrQcv ?
[20:04] <GridCube> oh... it seems down
[20:09] <knome> whatever you see fit
[20:10] <GridCube> it doesnt seem to work so i wont use it, people should just post to the mailing list
[20:10] <knome> yep
[20:11] <Unit193> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-development Done, but the other?
[20:12] <knome> Unit193, i can do that
[20:12] <GridCube> As like the past few releases we are compiling a FAQ for our website.
[20:12] <GridCube> This release brings many new things, with the inclusion of xfce 4.10 and the slightly hard problems of compatibility between xfce using gtk2 and mainbuntu using mainly gtk3.
[20:12] <GridCube> If you have any tip or recurrent circumstance you happen to know how to solve, and think that might help new comers please share it with us.
[20:12] <GridCube> Its easy to oversee things when you are used to a system, things we might have internalized as a procedural might not be so obvious to others. If you feel like you know something that can help the community we are here so asking you to share it :D.
[20:12] <GridCube> Thanks for your time.
[20:12] <GridCube> D:
[20:12] <GridCube> fail paste
[20:13] <Unit193> knome: Alright, I don't remember where the roadmap is, and don't have FF open.
[20:13] <knome> Unit193, did that already. and it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ :)
[20:14] <Unit193> Thanks.
[20:14] <GridCube> well its here now, do you think thats ok? i just dont like to post things whitout consulting
[20:15] <knome> GridCube, that looks fine
[20:15] <GridCube> good