[07:48] <Mirv> duflu: oh, I forgot the fun part of my Chromebook. since as you remember I did the original installation from USB stick to USB stick. I copied the contents of USB stick to SSD without partitioning or anything, and then just configured grub long enough inside chroot to that partition so that Ubuntu booted. but the thing is the directories of ChromeOS and Ubuntu on that biggest (26GB) partition don't
[07:48] <Mirv> clash, so I have a working dual-boot (Ctrl-D vs Ctrl-L) from the same partition..
[07:49] <Mirv> duflu: it doesn't help though that if I press the space button in the boot screen, everything would be deleted of course (if not canceling before timer is up)
[07:50] <Mirv> but ChromeOS doesn't detect anything being "corrupted" or anything while I have a booting Ubuntu installation there and grub installed
[07:51] <Mirv> ...and now back to testing the Mir inputinfo thing on the chromebook
[08:02] <duflu> Mirv: Sorry, back now. Cool...
[08:45] <tsdgeos> anpok: you around? i have a touchpad question and mzanetti sent me to you :D
[08:46]  * duflu 's ears prick up
[08:46] <tsdgeos> i got a new laptop and the touchpad "tap" doesn't work under unity8 while it works under unity7
[08:47] <tsdgeos> i.e. mouse click is not registered
[08:47] <tsdgeos> i've played with the N settings of system-settings to no difference
[08:47] <tsdgeos> i was wondering how to start to debug it
[08:47]  * duflu shouts at apport for innocently reporting many crashes
[08:50] <duflu> tsdgeos: The tick box "Tap to click" in System Settings is ticked right?
[08:50] <tsdgeos> duflu: yes
[08:50] <duflu> Just tried Apple Magic Trackpad and tap to click works fine. Although I'm not sure who implements it where
[08:52] <tsdgeos> duflu: otoh this laptop has a separate button, a "button inside the touchpad" and the tapping in the touchpad
[08:52] <tsdgeos> the first two work, the third no
[08:52] <tsdgeos> maybe it is confusing something with so many "buttons"
[08:53] <duflu> tsdgeos: Very weird. Tap to click works in U8 but not in Mir demo servers and the input report shows no events for it (!?)
[08:53] <tsdgeos> magic!
[08:53] <duflu> Indeed
[08:55] <duflu> Hmm, it's a server configuration thing. I guess U8 sets tap_to_click but not our demos
[08:55] <duflu> tsdgeos: Often it's a sensitivity problem with many laptops... try a very long tap or very short
[08:56] <duflu> Many times...
[08:58] <tsdgeos> duflu: it's weird because the system settings settings seem to do nothing basically
[08:58] <tsdgeos> there's also a "two finger swipe" setting
[08:58] <tsdgeos> that i can either have enabled or disabled
[08:58] <tsdgeos> and two finger swipe will work anyway
[08:59] <duflu> tsdgeos: Sounds plausible.. the settings themselves not working. And the default is no tap to click so it's not getting applied
[08:59] <duflu> I think I've seen that happen too. Mouse & Touchpad settings sometimes ignored
[10:58] <anpok> tsdgeos: re .. libinput tries to come up with defaults for the touchpad based on its hwdb. I have no idea yet why changing that configuration does not work.
[13:38] <alan_g> greyback: is the only thing "needs fixing" the spurious space character? https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/miral/initial-gdk_window_move_to_rect-inspired-placement-logic/+merge/304236/comments/786595
[13:39] <greyback> alan_g: not necessarily. As you say, it can be left for the following branches, since you've chained them.
[13:40] <greyback> branch approved
[13:41] <alan_g> Fixed in lp:~alan-griffiths/miral/connect-gdk_window_move_to_rect-inspired-placement-logic-to-Mir-0.25-API
[13:54] <TheKit> I tried exactly the same EGL_CONFIG_ID as used by SFOS (7), but still getting EGL_BAD_DISPLAY error
[13:54] <TheKit> anything else I can try? - http://pastebin.com/X4Y8egEg
[21:39] <TheKit> kdub, anpok_, it turns out EGL_BAD_DISPLAY wasn't because of bad EGL config
[21:39] <TheKit> suddenly remembered about apitrace and used it to check
[21:39] <TheKit> eglMakeCurrent(dpy = NULL, draw = NULL, read = NULL, ctx = NULL) = EGL_FALSE
[21:40] <TheKit> eglMakeCurrent gets called with NULL display for some reason


[01:07] <micahg> hi skaet, still around?
[01:07] <skaet> hi micahg, yup,  what's up?
[01:08] <micahg> skaet: 1st, I have to apologize, I forgot to tell mr_pouit that gmusicbrowser needed an FFe for the sound menu integration, should I file a bug and get a retroactive FFe?
[01:09] <micahg> I think he assumed I already got it, but it got lost in the shuffle
[01:09] <skaet> micahg, yes please.
[01:09] <micahg> skaet: ok, thanks, second, what to do with cairo-dock, bug 723994
[01:09] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 723994 in cairo-dock (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "FFe: Please update Cairo-Dock to 2.3.0~0rc1 version (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723994
[01:10] <skaet> you were waiting for some things to land,  where are they?
[01:10]  * skaet hasn't looked at the bug yet, and probably should :/
[01:10] <skaet> s/yet/today
[01:10] <micahg> skaet: so, now he tells me the Debian package isn't good and we should just use his version, so I'm a little confused, maybe he was hoping Debian would take his changes
[01:11] <micahg> I was hoping we would just be able to sync, but that's not possible apparently
[01:12] <skaet> micahg,  my preference is to leave it on the bench then for a while, and sort it out after beta1 comes out.
[01:12] <micahg> skaet: we can still upload then?  Does UiF factor in?
[01:13] <skaet> It does.
[01:13] <skaet> But right now,  we're at UIF as well.
[01:13] <skaet> UIF/BetaFreeze was 2300 UTC
[01:14] <micahg> ugh, ok
[01:14]  * skaet should send out a note.   Was chasing too many loose ends earlier.   Will do now
[01:16] <micahg> skaet: bug 742185
[01:16] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 742185 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "FFe: Please Sync gmusicbrowser (universe) 1.1.7-1 from Debian unstable (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742185
[01:17] <micahg> changed title to look less actionable :)
[01:18]  * micahg will have to go hunt for whale food now...
[01:27] <micahg> skaet: anyways, thanks
[01:38] <skaet> micahg,  gone in and added comments, and subscribed ubuntu archive admin.
[01:38] <micahg> skaet: no need, it's already in
[01:38] <skaet> heh
[01:38] <skaet> okie
[01:38] <micahg> that's why I changed the title and apologized :)
[01:39] <skaet> :)
[01:39]  * skaet needs to get that note out now...
[02:22] <lamont> slangasek: it's because y'all keep stuffing huge builds through arm, and breaking sleeves and stuff
[02:22] <slangasek> breaking wut
[02:23] <slangasek> and hey, the biggest thing I stuffed through the arm queue today was php5
[02:23] <slangasek> so don't look at me ;)
[02:23] <lamont> well, all y'all
[02:23] <lamont> by which I mean DOKO
[02:24] <lamont> though to be fair, that's mostly because he got a bunch of huge phat packages dropped on his head a few years back
[02:24] <lamont> doko_: gcj-4.5 is also playing shooting-gallery with the armel targets.
[02:25]  * lamont plays whack-a-mole with the outdated gcj-4.5 (-ubuntu1) on hubbard
[02:26] <micahg> lamont: I'm about to upload chromium in a couple hours :)
[02:30] <slangasek> yeah, and I think the double gcj-4.5 upload is due to a multiarch buglet, so you can blame that one on me anyway
[02:31] <micahg> lamont: actually if you're short armel builders, I can save chromium for the weekend
[02:36] <micahg> hmm, is this new, all uploads need manual approval until release or until beta freeze is over?
[02:37] <lamont> slangasek: heh
[02:38] <lamont> anyway, the obviously mad armels are all stuffed back into the race
[02:38] <lamont> the not-obviously mad ones will eventually be obviously mad
[02:38] <lamont> but I need to go do some admin work on my daughter's laptop before she bursts into pouting
[02:49] <nhandler> j/48
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> skaet, could i get an NSS upload in to natty (it fixes the same issue as bug 741528, and is a pretty safe change)?
[09:29] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 741528 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 15 other projects) "Compromised Comodo SSL certificates puts users at risk (affects: 1) (heat: 258)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741528
[09:37] <cjwatson> right, we're going to be wanting queuebot then
[11:20] <cjwatson> ScottK: mx51> linux-linaro-mx51 is going to need to be promoted to main to make this work.  Can you deal with any exception bugs or whatever that you feel are needed for that?
[11:21] <ScottK> Sure.
[11:21] <ScottK> chrisccoulson: I'd suggest go ahead and upload and someone will review it in the queue.
[11:21] <cjwatson> ScottK: can I keep on calling it imx51 in d-i, or is mx51 better?
[11:21] <cjwatson> I don't know the meanings of the terms
[11:22] <chrisccoulson> ScottK, thanks
[11:22] <ScottK> cjwatson: I'm not sure.  I'd say let's try to take the shortest path to success, but I'm not sure.
[11:23] <cjwatson> it's not significantly harder either way; I'm more interested in what's right
[11:23] <cjwatson> grepping for imx51 and changing it to mx51 is easy enough
[11:23] <cjwatson> if that's the right thing to do
[11:24] <cjwatson> but if they're just different names for the same thing, I'll stick with imx51
[11:24] <ScottK> I'll ask and see if I can find out.
[11:24] <cjwatson> thanks
[11:28] <ogra_> cjwatson, i think linaro implemented something in flash kernel thats called mx51
[11:30] <ogra_> hrm
[11:30] <ogra_> we have pleany of imx arches now in the code
[11:32] <ogra_> and the efika HW doesnt have a subarch check at all
[11:32] <ogra_> (so from flash-kernel perspective the name doesnt matter)
[11:34] <cjwatson> flash-kernel doesn't care about the d-i image name anyway, only about what archdetect says
[11:34] <ogra_> (given that the kernel will likely only run on efika i would suggest calling it efikamx or some such though)
[11:34] <cjwatson> (and certainly archdetect names should be static)
[11:34] <cjwatson> hm, if that were the right name shouldn't it also be the kernel package name though?
[11:35] <cjwatson> I don't really like *inventing* names for d-i images
[11:35] <cjwatson> I'd rather either stick with current (inertia) or else match the kernel package name
[11:35] <ogra_> well, flash-kernel nowadays checks for "imx5"|"mx51" and for "Freescale MX51 Babbage Board", "Freescale MX53 LOCO Board" and for "Genesi Efika MX (Smartbook)" | "Genesi Efika MX (Smarttop)"
[11:35] <ogra_> i dont think archdetect has the latter two at all
[11:38] <cjwatson> so is mx51 a more general term than imx51?
[11:38] <ogra_> i think they are different subarches
[11:38] <cjwatson> http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika says "Freescale i.MX515"
[11:39] <cjwatson> so I guess imx51 is still accurate?
[11:39] <cjwatson> so confusing
[11:39] <ogra_> well, i havent been involved with mx51 at all, thats a pure linaro thing, what i know is that their kernel partially works on the nettop and should also work on the babbage
[11:40]  * ogra_ checks how their kernel is called
[11:40] <ogra_> -mx51
[11:40] <ogra_> so call the subarch that then :)
[11:40] <cjwatson> ok
[11:41] <cjwatson> is there any reason to leave the imx51 subarch in place in d-i?
[11:41] <ogra_> no
[11:41] <cjwatson> or can I rename it to mx51?
[11:41] <cjwatson> ok
[11:41] <ogra_> only historical ones probably, but i doubt we'll ever to a ludic image rebuild
[11:42] <ogra_> and if so, likely not with this d-i :)
[11:42] <ogra_> (god, my typing sucks)
[11:43] <cjwatson> ScottK: also, is there a bug for this feature in general?  if so, can it have a d-i task?
[12:42] <ScottK> cjwatson: I'll be sure to add it once I write it.
[12:52] <ScottK> cjwatson: It's 742430
[12:53] <cjwatson> ta
[12:59] <zul> skaet: can i get a FFE for new cobbler and openstack snapshot they are both in universe
[13:05] <ScottK> zul: Please just file the bugs and we'll look at them.
[13:15] <ScottK> cjwatson: I was going to subscribe ubuntu-mir to the bug and ask about promotion after someone approved the FFe.  I've discussed this with skaet and she OK'ed it, so I can either wait for her or some other release team member can mark it approved.
[13:27] <ScottK> cjwatson: So now I look around and that's not all.  I was under the impression that we had images for Kubuntu Mobile on n900 already.  We don't.  This already has an FFe (724534), but it's kernel, linux-n900 (which is based on Linaro's) is also in Universe.  Sigh.
[13:27] <ScottK> This image is also on the manifest.
[13:28] <ScottK> Do pre-installed images need D-I changes?
[13:29] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^
[13:31] <Riddell> I didn't know we were planning on having images for n900, would be awesome though
[13:32] <ScottK> It's been on the manifest for the entire cycle.
[13:34] <cjwatson> I don't think preinstalled images need d-i, but perhaps ogra could confirm
[13:34] <ogra_> only oem-config
[13:35] <ogra_> but you need a relatively complex debian-cd setup
[13:36] <ScottK> My head hurts.
[13:36] <ScottK> ogra_: Does headless need D-I?
[13:37] <ogra_> no, as i said above, only uses oem-config
[13:37] <ScottK> I thought that was pre-installed.
[13:37] <ScottK> But great if it's both.
[13:38] <ScottK> cjwatson: If we do the Kubuntu image as a preinstalled image then I don't think we need mx51 support in D-I then.  Which also means we don't need to promote the kernels, right?
[13:39] <ogra_> you need the kernels for preinstalled too indeed
[13:39] <cjwatson> well, not on account of d-i at any rate; I don't know what preinstalled images require/prefer in that department
[13:39] <ogra_> preinstalled is pretty much identical to live images with its requirements
[13:40] <ScottK> ogra_: But does the kernel need to be in Main?
[13:40] <ogra_> hmm, i dont think so
[13:40] <ogra_> cjwatson, we have a universe mirror antimony can access, right ?
[13:40] <ScottK> It does for D-I, so avoiding that for the propsed linaro based images would be a really good thing.
[13:41] <ogra_> debian-cd pulls bootloader and kernel from the archive during build so both need to be accessible from the cdimage server (antimony)
[13:42] <ogra_> if thats the case it should work without promotion
[13:42] <cjwatson> antimony can use universe for images that are configured that way, yes
[13:42] <cjwatson> it's separated a bit to avoid universe leaking into main-only images by accident
[13:44] <ogra_> well, the debian-cd post-boot-armel+mx51 script needs to be created (preferably by someone having the HW), it needs to be able to pull the bootloader from the archive and pulls the kernel and initrd from the livefs builder livefs
[13:44] <ogra_> -livefs
[13:45] <ogra_> i see that kubuntu-mobile already has universe enabled in livecd-rootfs
[13:45] <ScottK> It does.
[13:45] <ogra_> so it should be able to find the kernel there
[13:46] <ScottK> So it's mainly the debian-cd work that needs doing?
[13:46] <ogra_> kubuntu hasnt though
[13:46] <ScottK> Ah.  Right.
[13:46] <ogra_> that will likely need more changes
[13:47] <ScottK> How about Ubuntu Headless?  Is that Main only?
[13:47] <ogra_> you need to add a switch for COMP i guess
[13:47] <ogra_> yes, headless is main only
[13:47] <ogra_>         headless)
[13:47] <ogra_>             LIST="$LIST minimal^ standard^"
[13:47] <ogra_>             LIVELIST="$LIVE_BOOT_SCRIPTS"
[13:47] <ogra_>             ;;
[13:47] <ogra_> thats all headless sets as defaults
[13:48] <ScottK> Because if we could just do the mx51 headless image, then I wouldn't worry about the Kubuntu one for this cycle.
[13:48] <ScottK> n900 should be doable already since Kubuntu Mobile already has Universe enabled.
[13:48] <ogra_> headless is completely focused on serial though
[13:49] <ScottK> Right, but if one edits boot.scr before booting it to remove the oem-config preseed, then it should work, right?
[13:50] <ogra_> theoretically yes, untested though
[13:50] <ScottK> For mx51 I'd be willing to try it.
[13:50] <ScottK> (I've got hardware)
[13:50] <ogra_> we currently set console= to serial and preseed debian-installer/framebuffer=false
[13:51] <ogra_> theoretically removing both should get you framebuffer oem-config in debconf mode
[13:51] <ScottK> So if we could get the image built, I could try it and see.
[13:52] <ScottK> If it works, then we can go from there.  I think "If you don't want to work via serial, do X, Y, Z" is not an unreasonable release note.
[13:55] <ogra_> do you have a bootloader in the archive ?
[13:56] <ogra_> and a working boot.scr
[14:08] <jibel_> skaet, bug 703230
[14:08] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 703230 in pango1.0 (Debian) (and 2 other projects) ""rm: cannot remove `/usr/share/doc/libpango1.0-0': Is a directory" when updating to 1.28.3-4 (affects: 3) (dups: 3) (heat: 79)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703230
[14:11] <ogra_> ScottK, i see u-boot-linaro-efikamx as well as u-boot-linaro-mx51evk ... with which in turn strikes me that livecd-rootfs wont be able to handle a kernel with linaro in the name OOTB, that will need a change too
[14:12] <ScottK> OK.  Sorry.  Got distracted by $WORK.  I'll look at this later.
[16:04] <doko_> skaet, cjwatson: please approve openjdk-6 and openjdk-6b18 (multiarch library path)
[16:52] <micahg> are unseeded package uploads still welcome?
[16:55] <cjwatson> micahg: generally yes, though they'll still go through the queue for review and avoidance-of-buildd-load
[16:56] <micahg> ok, also, will the archive be open again after beta or remain moderated, I wasn't sure based on the beta freeze e-mail
[16:58] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetaFreeze clarifies I think
[16:59] <cjwatson> we'll be open for 10 days after beta-1, then hard-freeze for beta-2
[17:00] <micahg> right, that's what I remember from the last 2 cycles, just wanted to make sure something didn't change since we switched to a beta 2
[17:00] <micahg> eh, relatively close at least :)
[17:01] <micahg> cjwatson: you commented last release about sync with Debian uploads, when should those stop, hard freeze?
[17:02] <cjwatson> I did?
[17:02] <micahg> cjwatson: yeah, I uploaded enigmail that just basically merged a Debian changelog
[17:03] <micahg> err, wasn't sync, was a merge
[17:04] <micahg> cjwatson: was this upload: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/enigmail/2:1.1.2-1ubuntu1
[17:05] <micahg> I'm just wondering where the point is to only sync/merge where we gain something instead of just being in sync or ready for sync
[17:11] <cjwatson> micahg: that sort of tidy-up should only really run up to Debian import freeze IMO
[17:11] <cjwatson> later than that there must be better things to do o:)
[17:12] <cjwatson> substantive syncs are fine whenever a corresponding direct upload with the same change would be, IMO
[17:13] <micahg> cjwatson: ok, will keep in mind for the future, thanks
[17:20] <bdrung> may i upload the ftbfs fix for lintian or should i wait until the beta freeze is lifted?
[17:29] <ScottK> bdrung: Go ahead and upload.
[17:29] <ScottK> Worst case it sits in queue.
[17:30] <bdrung> k, done
[17:32] <ScottK> bdrung: The tests you dropped: Did Debian drop them too?
[17:33] <bdrung> ScottK: no, but they are worthless with our two changes
[17:42] <ScottK> bdrung: I don't get the no-upstream-changelog change.  IIRC we are shipping at least partial changelog in all packages.
[17:43] <bdrung> ScottK: some of the test cases produced the no-upstream-changelog warning, but the testcase didn't expected it.
[17:44] <ScottK> Sounds like something that shouldn't be.
[17:45] <zul> robbiew
[17:45] <robbiew> zul: what's up
[17:46] <bdrung> ScottK: look at the test cases. they do not carry an upstream changelog.
[17:46] <ScottK> OK.
[17:46]  * bdrung has to leave now.
[17:46] <ScottK> Did you file a bug with Debian on this?
[17:46] <bdrung> ScottK: not yet, but i will forward it.
[17:46] <ScottK> OK.
[17:46] <zul> robbiew: sorry misfire
[17:47] <robbiew> zul: lol
[17:47] <ScottK> bdrung: Accepted.
[17:50] <cjwatson> parted and dmraid should either go together or not at all
[18:00] <slangasek> robbiew: why the proposal to drop netboot support for !x86? (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseImageContacts)
[18:02] <robbiew> slangasek: x86?
[18:02] <robbiew> uh
[18:02] <slangasek> no, !x86
[18:02] <slangasek> :)
[18:02] <slangasek> the netboot images are free as long as we're doing an existing d-i build for the arch
[18:02] <cjwatson> agreed, netboot support should be kept even if there are no testers IMO - it's actively painful to remove them
[18:02] <robbiew> slangasek: I can't test them...and that was a requirement
[18:02] <skaet> slangasek,  no ones signed up to test them,   d-i's will keep building
[18:03] <cjwatson> skaet: I can't make them stop publishing without doing violence to d-i
[18:03] <skaet> cjwatson,  don't want you to
[18:03] <robbiew> "Drop from that wiki page"
[18:03] <robbiew> ;)
[18:03] <cjwatson> where are you proposing to drop them from, then?
[18:03] <cjwatson> I don't understand
[18:04] <skaet> Not publishing them as part of the 11.04 artifacts.
[18:04] <skaet> This is all back to the UDS discussions on not publishing images we don't test.
[18:04] <cjwatson> to where?  you mean http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/11.04/ or something?
[18:05] <skaet> yes,
[18:05] <cjwatson> (those are just links, sure, they're easy to drop)
[18:05] <skaet> I don't want the dailies to stop.
[18:05] <cjwatson> ok
[18:05] <skaet> :)
[18:06] <doko_> slangasek: while you are at it, please accept openjdk-6 too (and python2.6, python3.1, python3.2)
[18:06] <slangasek> doko_: ack, looking
[18:06] <doko_> only openjdk-6 is on the dvd, but not on the cd's
[18:09] <doko_> will try to get binutils fixed over the weekend
[18:33]  * lamont does another round of armel buildd restoration
[19:17] <ogasawara> cjwatson: I've uploaded linux-2.6.38-7.39, could I get it approved in the queue please?
[19:23] <cjwatson> ogasawara: done
[19:23] <ogasawara> cjwatson: thanks
[21:38] <kirkland> FYI ... ^ bikeshed upload I had okay'd with ScottK earlier this week;  I missed a one-liner in the Makefile to get the change to take effect
[21:38] <ScottK> I'll review it.
[21:39] <ScottK> kirkland: Accepted.
[21:39] <kirkland> ScottK: thanks
[21:39] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[22:50] <slangasek> pango1.0 in unapproved is a multiarch upgrade-handling fix we'll want for beta
[23:08] <cjwatson> slangasek: accepted; I think we want the same the other way round too?
[23:09] <slangasek> from the plymouth side it just needs to be made more robust wrt these files being missing; plymouth itself shouldn't depend on pango, only plymouth-label does
[23:09] <slangasek> so a bit of tuning is still needed there
[23:10] <cjwatson> well, OK; I just noticed that new plymouth and old pango1.0 broke, and had been meaning to say something about it
[23:11] <slangasek> yeah, we should fix it that way 'round too - I just think a better fix is in order than Breaks
[23:11] <cjwatson> we shouldn't simply ignore those files being missing since that would result in no text being displayed (AIUI)
[23:11] <cjwatson> I suppose we could fall back to the text theme or something
[23:12] <slangasek> not that text gets displayed currently /anyway/ of course
[23:12] <cjwatson> I think Breaks might result in a more consistent user experience though
[23:12] <cjwatson> it gets displayed correctly for me - I can't reproduce that bug, so far
[23:12] <cjwatson> at least IIRC
[23:12] <slangasek> ah - I can reproduce the bug, and will see what I can figure out
[23:13] <cjwatson> that'd be lovely, thanks - plymouth bugs I can't reproduce are no fun at all
[23:13] <cjwatson> I should probably check again mind you
[23:14] <cjwatson> works on nouveau, modulo the need to alt-f1/f7 before it shows anything (which I should investigate, but that's separate)
[23:15] <slangasek> that's with plymouth in the initramfs?
[23:15] <slangasek> it may be that the hook is missing something else for the initramfs case
[23:33] <cjwatson> hm, now, I didn't think to try that - no, plymouth is not in the initramfs
[23:35] <cjwatson> I have some time nowish, I'll wedge together an initramfs test case
[23:38] <cjwatson> good call, I think that's it
[23:39] <cjwatson> I don't see the blanked-out areas here like were in the image in the bug, but I don't see text either, having touched /forcefsck
[23:39] <cjwatson> so that should be amenable to strace debugging
[23:44] <slangasek> cool
[23:56] <cjwatson> the effective diff in the grub2 upload (it's a merge, so maybe not trivial to work out which changelog entries matter) is:
[23:57] <cjwatson> - Fix crash when extending menu entry line beyond 79 characters
[23:57] <cjwatson> - Switch back to framebuffer page zero before loading the kernel (basically fixes black-screen that occurred on average 50% of the time when switching VTs on fglrx, and possibly broke other things too)
[23:57] <cjwatson> - Stop grub-setup being really slow if the first partition isn't near the start of the disk
[23:58] <cjwatson> plymouth> looks like missing libGL symlink, am poking
[23:58] <slangasek> \o/


[01:50] <m0nkey_> CANADA for PRESIDENT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCyzdD0vYOw
[04:17] <mapps> canada for president?
[04:17] <mapps> heh
[08:22] <knightwise> morning
[08:23] <zmoylan-pi> it's snowing, everyone panic \o/
[08:36] <MooDoo> bright sunshine here
[08:47] <popey> hehe, none here
[08:47] <popey> talking about it on the radio
[08:47] <popey> (morning)
[08:50] <knightwise>  morning popey
[08:50] <knightwise> enjoyed the show on my way to work this morning
[08:53] <popey> yay
[08:58] <knightwise> do we have a price on the ubuntu tablet yet ?
[09:00] <popey> no idea
[09:00] <popey> ask bq :)
[09:04] <davmor2> Morning All
[09:07] <bashrc> if it's not exorbitantly expensive I might consider getting an ubuntu tablet. I don't currently have a tablet, since my old one broke and I didn't bother replacing it.
[09:08] <bashrc> with the old tablet I found I mostly used it for reading, and an ereader is far better for that
[09:14] <knightwise> bashrc: agreed. Although I do use my ipad a lot to read in bed ..donno why cuz my Kobo should be better at that.
[09:15] <bashrc> someone suggested getting an ipad for reading but (i) I don't like Apple and (ii) the battery life on ereaders is way better.
[09:16] <bashrc> I really hardly need to care about charging the ereader at all
[09:16] <popey> I go my ereader out a couple of nights ago, then got an email from them saying they're shutting down
[09:17] <Laney> @internetofshit
[09:17] <bashrc> heh
[09:20] <knightwise> popey: what brand did you get ?
[09:21] <popey> Mine is a Nook
[09:21] <popey> I rarely used it tbh
[09:21] <knightwise> and they are shutting down ? Isn(t the nook from barnes and noble ?
[09:23] <popey> yes
[09:24] <popey> knightwise: https://twitter.com/popey/status/705496399429898240
[09:24] <knightwise> damn, so what is the impact going to be for you  ?
[09:24] <popey> migration to Sainsburys
[09:24] <popey> where I will still have access to "most" of my data
[09:25] <popey> I don't have many purchased items though, so not badly affected. I mostly side load "content" on via sd card or usb cable
[09:25] <knightwise> "most" of the books you bought
[09:25] <knightwise> same as me. I mostly sideload everything via calibre
[09:25] <foobarry> i have a kobo
[09:25] <foobarry> but most of my books are via amazon so it's annoying to have to convert them
[09:25] <knightwise> foobarry: me too , which one di you have
[09:26] <foobarry> the cheap one
[09:26] <knightwise> I have a glo
[09:26] <foobarry> kobo touch with the nice moulded back
[09:26] <foobarry> £30 at the time
[09:26] <foobarry> i have no complaints except for amazons drm
[09:27] <knightwise> any drm sucks, not just amazons
[09:27] <foobarry> yep
[09:27] <zmoylan-pi> i got a kobo 5" super cheap from argos. don't use it much. ditto my 7" asus android tablet. mostly a 4.5" android phone which is a media player
[09:27] <knightwise> i bought some books at the google play store.
[09:27] <knightwise> also allmost impossible to get teh drm off
[09:27] <foobarry> ugh
[09:27] <foobarry> the calibre hoops you have to jump through are ridiculous
[09:28] <foobarry> and i'm not sure its even posible on ubuntu anymore
[09:28] <foobarry> you needed wine and activepython and all this guff
[09:28] <foobarry> and the kindlePC.exe under wine
[09:28] <foobarry> to get the kindleID , but it doesn't work
[09:29] <knightwise> bookzz.org
[09:29] <knightwise> the have surprisingly little drm
[09:29] <foobarry> prices?
[09:29] <foobarry> i usually get my amazonz on offer
[09:30] <knightwise> also suspicously low
[09:30] <foobarry> heh
[09:30] <foobarry> thx , i'll check it out
[09:30] <foobarry> is it another allofmp3?
[09:31]  * knightwise would not dare say these things out loud
[09:31] <knightwise> but I have found some interesting books there
[09:39] <matt_linuxlearne> Morning
[09:41] <knightwise> hey matt_linuxlearne
[09:42] <matt_linuxlearne> hows things?
[09:44] <knightwise> doin ok
[09:44] <knightwise> friday :)
[09:44] <matt_linuxlearne> cool
[09:44] <knightwise>  last day before a work-filled weekend
[09:55] <matt_linuxlearne> whats ya plans over the weekend then
[09:56]  * Laney observes 1 flake of snow per second
[09:56] <matt_linuxlearne> more than i am getting
[09:57] <matt_linuxlearne> got nice sun shine
[09:57] <Laney> open your freezer door
[09:57] <Laney> then point it at the sky
[09:58] <matt_linuxlearne> but then ,my 50 gallons of neapolitan will melt
[10:01] <foobarry> in my house, neapolitan is vanilla and strawberry and my wife has eaten the chocolate already
[10:01] <davmor2> \o/ snow \o/ about the same amount as Laney sees
[10:01]  * knightwise write up the redesign of the entire infrastructure for one of my clients.
[10:02] <knightwise> over here its Raining
[10:02] <Laney> knightwise: with an appropriate amount of lock in to your company yes?
[10:02] <knightwise> https://www.google.be/maps/place/Corda+Campus/@50.952499,5.350508,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xed3def18ce40a171?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZurup46bLAhXD7g4KHRECAisQ_BIIfDAQ
[10:02] <knightwise> Laney: of course we will be designing the solution and guiding the project along :)
[10:03] <Laney> 999 year support contract
[10:03] <Laney> sorry nobody other than knightwise could ever possibly administer your infrastructure after this
[10:04] <knightwise> Laney: nononooo :) We DONT do support
[10:04] <matt_linuxlearne> is that not what we call creating yoou neash ?
[10:04] <knightwise> just analysis, design, project management and then we hand over support
[10:04] <matt_linuxlearne> your*
[10:04] <Laney> you miss out on a revenue stream :P
[10:04] <knightwise> we do stick around as the "shared IT manager"
[10:04] <knightwise> Laney: true , but i dont have the manpower to do the support
[10:05] <knightwise> and if I did i would have a ton of competitors ..
[10:07] <knightwise> right now I have a niche : we are independant consultants that work with whatever partner is best for the company. We don't sell you stuff, we don't have an agenda.
[10:07] <knightwise> thats our pitch
[10:16] <knightwise> does anyone have any experience in dual booting an acer revo ?
[10:17] <knightwise> I can't seem to boot into my thumbdrive to install ubuntu
[10:17] <knightwise> been bugging me forever
[10:21] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:26] <MooDoo> morning
[10:27] <brobostigon> morning
[10:29] <knightwise> hey guys
[10:39] <matt_linuxlearne> hey
[11:57] <awilkins> Recommends for a nice laptop?
[11:58] <awilkins> Currently ogling up the 2016 model of the Lenovo X1 Carbon
[12:02] <Myrtti> define nice
[12:02] <Myrtti> what do you want it to do?
[12:02] <awilkins> Portable development workstation
[12:03] <awilkins> Vexes me slightly that the only version of it that supports 16GB of RAM starts at £1740ish
[12:04] <awilkins> Just been made redundant ; have been running with a HP ZBook 15 G2
[12:04] <awilkins> Nice solid casing, powerful hardware
[12:05] <awilkins> But a really big fat laptop
[12:05] <awilkins> I have a very pretty leather laptop briefcase it JUST fits inside
[12:05] <awilkins> I don't need the NVidia Quadro model they supplied me with though
[12:06] <awilkins> Less about the pretty graphics and more about the running multiple VMs and manipulating large data graphs
[12:06] <awilkins> So thinking about something a bit lighter but still with plenty of RAM
[12:08] <popey> My current laptop lust list includes X1 Carbon, X260, T460s and now a new entrant from Dell, the e7470
[12:08] <popey> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-e7470-ultrabook/pd
[12:08] <popey> which has a nipple!
[12:08] <Myrtti> we had a bad run with the Dell XPS15 that dsample bought last year
[12:08]  * awilkins hates the nipples
[12:08] <Myrtti> finally got a return and a refund for it last month, now he's shopping for a new laptop
[12:08] <awilkins> The advantage of nipple as I see it is that they put an extra row of buttons above the touchpad as well as below
[12:08] <awilkins> And that's IT
[12:09] <awilkins> Yeah, looking at the T460s
[12:09] <popey> I want one with Touch and 1080p at least
[12:09] <awilkins> Lenovo is my default position really
[12:09] <knightwise> nipples are for thinkpads and girls
[12:09] <popey> uhm
[12:09] <awilkins> Touchscreen *spew*
[12:10] <popey> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs
[12:10] <awilkins> No way do I want any feature that i) costs more ii) muddies up my display by adding extra layer of transistors iii) muddies up my display by encouraging people to *ugh* touch it
[12:10] <popey> other people won't be touching it
[12:11] <knightwise> girls are awesome .. fierce !
[12:11] <awilkins> Screens are for looking at, not leaving finger grease on
[12:11] <knightwise> awilkins: i agree . a touchscreen on an xps13 is ... a waste
[12:11] <Myrtti> yeah, I don't use mine at all
[12:12] <knightwise> Myrtti: the only thing it adds is glossyness
[12:12] <awilkins> Another horrible thing
[12:12] <awilkins> Matt all the way!
[12:12] <awilkins> (not Matt. Sorry, Matt, MATTE)
[12:13] <knightwise> awilkins: we all know you love matt :p
[12:13] <popey> I am often testing touch based apps, so want it mostly for that
[12:13] <knightwise> or did you mean MATE all the way ?
[12:13] <popey> I do find myself reaching out to touch the screen of my non-touch laptop sometimes
[12:13] <popey> then remember
[12:13] <popey> "oh yeah, not touch"
[12:14] <knightwise> afree
[12:14] <awilkins> popey, Yeah, I might be doing some touch based apps *sadface*
[12:14] <awilkins> Bloody tablets and people who want to use them for productive things *sigh*
[12:15] <knightwise> awilkins: never mind that they are gonna hook them up to keyboards and mice afterwards
[12:15] <popey> most get hooked up to keyboards and not mice
[12:15] <popey> because, why attach a mouse when you have a touch input device
[12:16] <knightwise> Depends on what you want to do ...
[12:16] <davmor2> awilkins: but convergence tablet is a laptop is pc is amazing, just ask popey
[12:16] <knightwise> I for one have never gotten used to typing on a touchscreen fast enough.
[12:16] <knightwise> Convergence is a very loaded term :p
[12:18] <awilkins> Convergence implies making things worse, unless the best thing doesn't move
[12:18] <awilkins> And you just add the capabilities you want from the other things to that thing
[12:18] <awilkins> (best thing for a given role, ofc)
[12:19] <popey> knightwise: I didn't say you or me
[12:19] <popey> Most normals don't attach mice to tablets
[12:19] <popey> they may attach keyboards (as I said)
[12:19] <popey> to speed up typing, or to use the device as a pc-like thing for content creation
[12:19] <knightwise> true. Mice are perhaps a little redundant
[12:20] <knightwise> I for one ordered me a logitech K811 keyboard that switches between my mac and my ipad.
[12:20] <knightwise> that way I only need to carry around one device
[12:20] <popey> yeah, I like the logitech keyboards
[12:20] <knightwise> and at least my keyboard has a power key
[12:20] <knightwise> not like the default apple crap one
[12:21] <davmor2> knightwise: look at surface, yes it's Microsoft but the actual concept of keyboard and pen is perfect for most users
[12:21] <knightwise> I know.
[12:21] <knightwise> I use mine a lot. The pen part is great for scetching or writing up reports
[12:21] <popey> That new surface is very nice
[12:21] <knightwise> popey: it does have some "glitches"
[12:22] <knightwise> they are only now ironing out the kinks in hibernation and stuff
[13:08] <Myrtti> UK peeps: last moments to buy and send mother's day cards and gifts
[13:09]  * awilkins boos and hurls things
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> you've gone shopping on mothers day morning to see young adults sprinting into shops desperate to find any over priced tat in panic? :-)
[13:10] <Myrtti> no, just dressing up to walk to the post office to mail a card
[13:11] <Myrtti> just thought someone might appreciate the reminder
[13:11] <popey> :)
[13:11]  * awilkins sends mum a box of expensive chocos
[13:11] <humbot> eep
[14:18] <foobarry> this year i didn't make the mistake of forgetting that my wife is a mum
[14:23] <brobostigon> same, cant forget my fiance is a mother as well.
[14:28] <foobarry> i went overboard and got too much stuff this year
[14:28] <foobarry> so i just gave one as an ad-hoc "no reason" present, which went down well
[14:29] <brobostigon> ah.
[15:06] <MooDoo> :)
[15:07] <Adriannom> Hi. I've tried uninstalling a font by deleting it from ~/.local/share/fonts but when trying to reinstall it with font viewer it says it's already installed. Copying the font over and using fc-cache doesn't seem to register the font. Any ideas how I can fix it?
[15:09] <Myrtti> how did you install it in the first place?
[15:11] <Adriannom> with font viewer
[15:11] <Adriannom> I just hit "Install" and it was done
[15:12] <Adriannom> But for some reason there's no "Uninstall" or "Reinstall"
[15:17] <Adriannom> So my problem currently is that the font is NOT installed, and yet font viewer reports it as "Installed" and the button is greyed out. Installing manually doesn't register the font. Anyone got any ideas?
[15:19] <Adriannom> Or at least an opinion on whether this is normal behaviour?
[16:02] <Adriannom> Ok, perhaps if I change my question, when you uninstall a font does Font Viewer still think it's installed?
[16:36] <Adriannom> Still trying to fix. Just rebooted after ensuring the font isn't installed, but Font Viewer still says it is, and the font doesn't appear in Font Manager or other apps
[17:31] <diddledan> don't you hate when someone says of cost that "for big business you're already spending a lot, so why not spend more"
[17:33] <diddledan> one I just came across when comparing xamarin vs hybrid-html cost: https://youtu.be/ajq_vRBvuzs?t=3062
[17:38] <diddledan> omg, not a community!1! ref: "However, you need to really think about future-proofing your app to stay on top of changes in iOS, Android, and Windows, and whether you’ll need more advanced access to a device’s sensors or the platform APIs, such as iOS’ 3D Touch, payments, or fingerprint recognition for example.  These features require contributions by a community to provide the necessary plugins"
[17:38] <diddledan> that's in answer to "is there _any_ situation where hybrid html should be your first choice"
[20:14] <foobarry> remember that kickstarter about the coolest cooler? i just read they might not deliver after getting $13m
[20:15] <foobarry> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/03/01/coolest-cooler-is-flat-broke-and-looking-for-an-investor-but-backers-are-pissed-off/#gref
[20:15] <popey> yeah, they've been screwing up non-stop
[20:15] <zmoylan-pi> turns out you need more than an idea...
[20:16] <popey> I enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters
[20:26] <foobarry> they sell them on amazon, it actually exists..
[20:33] <knightwise> whaw :) worst ideas in the history of bad ideas
[21:34] <daftykins> I was just walking home from the supermarket when i heard a guy outside a pub talk about smashing his phone on concrete, so i went back to offer to fix it :D
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> i'd have handed him my nokia and told him to work out his anger... :-)
[21:39] <daftykins> hehehe
[21:39] <daftykins> hey zmoylan-pi how goes?
[21:40] <zmoylan-pi> well, went for a nice walk today in freezing cold.  fed the birds down by sea front... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/705849580756320256/photo/1
[21:43] <daftykins> THE BIIIIIIIRDS!
[21:47] <zmoylan-pi> wasn't a good photo, as soon as i stopped dropping bread it was gone and so were they
[21:47] <daftykins> my understanding was bread is bad for most birds diet? :)
[21:48] <zmoylan-pi> nah, birds like bread.  not the best food for them, but on a day like today... they'll eat anything up to and including smaller birds earing bread...


[00:22] <czajkowski> I'm gonna regret tomorrow not going to bed!
[00:43]  * JanC notes some peopel saying setting up VPN for the network at school is no problem with Ubuntu but a lot of work with Windows  :-P
[00:43] <JanC> (using vpnc)
[00:44] <JanC> apparently has non-functional vpnc or such
[00:44] <JanC> apparently Win7 *
[00:47] <JanC> ROFL, so, the VPN wizard requires internet access, otherwise it won't configure the vpnc
[00:48] <JanC> and of course there is no internet access until after a vpnc VPN is setup  :P
[03:01] <nigelbabu> did everyone who has to catch a flight catch one? akgraner ? pleia2 ?
[03:01] <akgraner> pleia2, was able too
[03:01] <akgraner> I am still in Chicago
[03:01] <nigelbabu> akgraner: oh, when is your connection?
[03:02] <akgraner> nigelbabu, tomorrow 4:45pm
[03:02] <ddecator> akgraner: having fun in the chilly windy city? =p
[03:02] <akgraner> hehe had a great dinner
[03:03] <nigelbabu> akgraner: so you'll miss aday?
[03:03] <akgraner> and it is windy - got off the plane and was greeted with 42 F degree with wind and rain
[03:03] <nigelbabu> oh, grr, tomorrow meaning sunday.....ok :)
[03:04] <akgraner> yep
[03:04] <ddecator> akgraner: yah, it's really cold here this weekend...it was nice last week, you missed it
[03:04] <akgraner> so instead of getting there Sunday morning  - I'll get there Monday Morning
[03:06] <nigelbabu> not thta bad, except you'll be jet lagged on day 1
[03:27] <akgraner> yep
[03:28] <nigelbabu> akgraner: any news if penny's got her flight?
[03:29] <akgraner> Last I heard it was delayed 90 minutes
[03:30] <akgraner> NCommander is on the same flight so if he made it out so did she :-)
[03:31] <maco> akgraner: dan's flight got a flat tire and had to turn back when it hit the ocean :P
[03:31] <maco> flat tire was during takeout
[03:31] <maco> *takeoff
[03:31] <akgraner> oh wow
[03:31] <maco> they're putting on new tires right now
[03:32] <akgraner> wow
[03:32] <nigelbabu> akgraner: phew :)
[03:32] <nigelbabu> maco: oh, ouch
[03:38] <nigelbabu> akgraner: I'm off, have a nice journey :)
[03:38] <akgraner> thanks! laters
[04:52] <czajkowski> pen got her flight
[06:57] <nigelbabu> nhandler: about?
[09:30] <nigelbabu> jussi: on the way yet?
[09:30] <jussi> nope
[09:30] <nigelbabu> evening?
[09:31] <jussi> I leave at about 4.30
[09:31] <jussi> its now 11.30
[09:31] <nigelbabu> aah :)
[09:31] <nigelbabu> oh, grr, tomboy is misbehaving
[10:13] <jussi> nigelbabu: if he comesback, we can deal with it.
[10:14] <jussi> he likely did it elsewhere also, and got a ticket off the network
[10:15] <nigelbabu> jussi: great, thanks :)
[10:23] <czajkowski> aloha from brussels
[10:24] <nigelbabu> czajkowski: yaay! you got there :)
[10:24] <nigelbabu> czajkowski: who else made it there? penny? lyz?
[10:25] <czajkowski> not yet
[10:25] <czajkowski> pens 4 hrs late
[10:25] <nigelbabu> oh, ouch
[10:27] <JanC_> Penelope's flight is marked as delayed on the Brussels Airport website
[10:28] <czajkowski> it is delayed
[10:28] <czajkowski> by 4 hrs
[10:28] <JanC_> pleia should com in around 12h local time
[10:29] <JanC> 11:56
[10:29] <nigelbabu> in a few minutes then :)
[10:29] <nigelbabu> wonder what happened to dan though
[10:30] <JanC> seems like crimsun/dchen's flight got cancelled too
[10:30] <jussi> czajkowski: how was the trip from airport to hotel?
[10:31] <czajkowski> smooth
[10:31] <czajkowski> coach
[10:31] <czajkowski> door tro door
[10:31] <jussi> easy to find?
[10:31] <czajkowski> yes
[10:31] <czajkowski> ubuntu sign
[10:31] <nigelbabu> w00t, can't miss that one then
[10:36] <JanC> KenVanDine's flight was also cancelled?
[10:40]  * JanC has to go now
[10:48] <czajkowski> aye
[11:16] <jussi> nigelbabu: are you going to uds?
[11:16] <nigelbabu> jussi: nah, just remote participation for me
[11:17] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: I'll even have trouble with that :(, I'll only get home in time for the last session of the day for most of the week
[11:18] <nigelbabu> bencrisford: I'm on leave from work for the entire week :D
[11:18] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: jealous :(
[11:18]  * bencrisford cannot really get leave from school :P
[11:19] <nigelbabu> hehe
[11:19] <nigelbabu> I'm changing jobs, so I can do as I please ;)
[11:19] <bencrisford> fortunately, the school sysadmins are awesome enough to leave webchat.f.n unblocked :)
[11:20] <nigelbabu> bencrisford: ssh into a sever
[11:20] <nigelbabu> keep irssi running on a screen and ssh into it with putty or kitty
[11:21] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: neat idea :), but wont be easy...
[11:22] <nigelbabu> bencrisford: it is if you can find a severe
[11:22] <nigelbabu> *server
[11:22] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: theres no need anyway, webchat.f.n is unblocked
[11:22] <bencrisford> the only thing I cant access is icecast and gobby
[11:23] <bencrisford> unless there is a windows version for gobby?
[11:23] <nigelbabu> icecast you can try with vlc
[11:24] <bencrisford> vlc is portable?
[11:25] <nigelbabu> vlc is definitely on windows too
[11:26] <bencrisford> yeah, but does it run without having to install?  i.e. can I stick it on a USB and run it
[11:26] <bencrisford> like I can with firefox
[11:27] <nigelbabu> ah, that, checking
[11:27] <nigelbabu> bencrisford: http://portableapps.com/apps/music_video/vlc_portable
[11:27] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: yay :D
[11:28]  * bencrisford finds a windows lappy under a pile of cds
[11:28] <bencrisford> ill test putty and vlc on it :)
[11:35] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: ok, putty seems to work :D
[11:35] <bencrisford> vlc is still installing on my usb
[11:36] <nigelbabu> bencrisford: dont forget to get the keys set up right
[11:36] <nigelbabu> you might also want to download puttygen
[11:36] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: im pretty happy with webchat.f.n tbh
[11:36] <bencrisford> I don't think ill bother setting it up for UDS
[11:36] <bencrisford> but its good to know that I *could* set it up
[11:36] <nigelbabu> yeah, its nice to have
[11:37] <bencrisford> if I get time today I might check it out again
[11:37] <bencrisford> but I got a load of stuff to do today :(
[12:52] <cjohnston> anyone else having any issues getting to brussels?
[12:54] <nigelbabu> so far, dan and gang are the least lucky
[12:55] <cjohnston> dan?
[12:55] <nigelbabu> dan chen
[12:57] <cjohnston> ahh
[13:53] <jussi> o/
[13:53] <jussi> at airport :D
[13:53] <jussi> plane leaves in about 50 mins
[13:53] <bencrisford> jussi: :)
[13:53] <nigelbabu> jussi: have a safe flight :)
[13:54]  * jussi says a little prayer :)
[14:03] <jussi> @@@@@@
[14:03] <jussi> I can has @!
[14:03] <jussi> anyway, on to the plane now :)
[14:03] <jussi> see peoples when I get there
[14:04] <nigelbabu> jussi: yaay! :)
[14:34] <cjohnston> getting ready to head to the airport...
[14:34] <cjohnston> o/
[14:39] <AlanBell> http://www.borehamwoodtimes.co.uk/education/north_london_education/north_london_independent_schools/the_holmewood_school/
[14:39] <AlanBell> um, branding!
[14:40] <nigelbabu> AlanBell: whoa!
[14:40] <nigelbabu> AlanBell: the second picture is so copied
[15:20] <bencrisford> AlanBell: :O
[15:21] <cjohnston|cell> akgraner: Leaving for the airport soon. Will do when there
[16:25] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:26] <czajkowski> greetings from uds, sitting on the bed with pleia2 and Pendulum watching dr.who and having beer an d jellys
[16:29] <nhandler> czajkowski: I am so jealous of you right now
[16:30] <czajkowski> :)
[16:33] <nigelbabu> czajkowski: say hi to both from me :)
[16:33] <Pendulum> hiya nigelbabu
[16:33] <nigelbabu> and nice to know all of you folks got there :)
[16:33] <nigelbabu> heya Pendulum !
[16:58] <qense> czajkowski: I'm in the hotel now, but I have no idea if I have to tell someone I'm here, when/where there will be dinner. etc. Is there something we should go to?
[17:00] <qense> jcastro? ^^  ;)
[17:03] <JanC> they just told in the radio news that the Belgian airspace & airports are not going to close
[17:14] <nigelbabu> x/ws 56
[17:14] <nigelbabu> grr
[17:15] <qense> off to the lobby!
[17:23] <nigelbabu> akgraner_n900: on the plane?
[17:24] <akgraner_n900> nope airport no wifi access from my computer though
[17:25] <nigelbabu> akgraner_n900: yaay, at least flight soon :)
[17:26] <akgraner_n900> *nods*
[17:28] <bencrisford> akgraner_n900: :)
[17:33] <AlanBell> sitting in St Pancras with popey waiting for the train
[17:33] <AlanBell> we haz nachos
[17:33] <nigelbabu> AlanBell: w00t
[17:33] <AlanBell> and beer
[17:33] <bencrisford> :D
[17:33] <nigelbabu> AlanBell: podcasting on train?
[17:33] <popey> heh
[17:33] <popey> maybe
[17:34] <nigelbabu> popey: yaay!
[17:34] <nigelbabu> popey: pictures, please please please :)
[17:34] <popey> i have a feeling AlanBell maybe posting a pic shortly
[17:35] <nigelbabu> yaay!
[17:40] <bencrisford> popey: AlanBell: If you need to kill time check if the WHSmith sells Ubuntu User :D, I always do when i'm bored in a shopping centre :)
[17:40] <bencrisford> (I know i'm sad ;))
[17:41] <nigelbabu> haha
[17:41] <nigelbabu> bencrisford: btw, gobby is multiplatform, i.e. can work on windows :)
[17:42] <bencrisford> nigelbabu: cool :D!  i'll see if I can get it portable for my USB later :)
[17:42] <bencrisford> (brb)
[17:45] <AlanBell> bencrisford: good reminder, but I am going to look for PC live, which has a kind of interview with the #ubuntu-uk crowd in it
[17:54] <bencrisford> AlanBell: cool :), I'll check PC live out next time im in the shop
[18:32] <JanC> hm, the ATM listed as "nearest ATM" is 5km further than the one that's really nearest  :P
[18:34] <nigelbabu> JanC: canonical plots to have everyone have a good exercise :D
[18:35] <JanC> no, somebody has been putting info on that page thinking a Hotel in La Hulpe must be closest to La Hulpe, while the hotel is really closer to Hoeilaart  ;)
[18:37] <JanC> same with the list of restaurants etc.
[18:38] <akgraner> Scott Richie  - is at the airport now as well :-)
[18:38] <JanC> akgraner: you leaving soon?
[18:38] <akgraner> 3 hours or so
[18:40] <nigelbabu> akgraner: there?
[18:41] <akgraner> yeah working on UWN
[18:41] <akgraner> what's up
[18:46] <czajkowski> aloha
[18:47] <bencrisford> czajkowski: hey :), how was Dr Who :P?
[18:54] <czajkowski> fantastic
[18:56] <bencrisford> czajkowski: was it the vampire one?
[18:56]  * bencrisford saw that yesterday :)
[19:55] <maco> czajkowski: you said you're at UDS already right? have any of the kubuntu folks arrived yet?
[19:58] <nigelbabu> maco: besides lyz and pendulum? ;)
[19:58] <maco> nigelbabu: *k*ubuntu
[19:58] <nigelbabu> maco: bah, minority :D
[19:58]  * nigelbabu runs
[19:59] <maco> scottk has apparently.  so agateau, riddell, rgreening...
[19:59] <nigelbabu> aha!
[21:03] <bencrisford1> nigelbabu: I think ive found a portable gobby :D
[21:03] <nigelbabu> bencrisford1: w00t
[21:04] <bencrisford1> nigelbabu: its a development version
[21:04] <bencrisford1> made by the same website as the vlc one I think
[21:04] <bencrisford1> hopefully wont be too buggy
[21:04] <bencrisford1> and hopefully school sysadmins wont have blocked the ports it uses
[21:06] <nigelbabu> too many hopefully there
[21:10] <bencrisford1> yeah, well our sysadmins seem to be kind of rubbish at school
[21:10] <bencrisford1> there is an "uninstall_flash_flayer.exe" in the resources for students folder :P
[21:11] <bencrisford1> google images is blocked, but webchat.freenode isnt
[21:11] <bencrisford1> or chat sites like zingled
[21:11] <nigelbabu> meebo?
[21:12] <bencrisford1> meebo is blocked I think
[21:12] <bencrisford1> thats for msn and stuff right?
[21:12] <bencrisford1> IM
[21:12] <nigelbabu> yep
[21:12] <bencrisford1> I think thats blocked
[21:13] <nigelbabu> hm :/
[21:13] <bencrisford1> the filter I think weights keywords, so the words "online games" and "chat" are weighted *NEGATIVE*
[21:13] <bencrisford1> a quick google of the software told me that
[21:14] <nigelbabu> norton?
[21:14] <bencrisford1> not norton
[21:14] <bencrisford1> cant remember what its called
[21:14] <bencrisford1> id never heard of it
[21:15] <qense> Our school filters everything with games and anonymous in it.
[21:15] <qense> So also the coverage of the Olympic Games.
[21:15] <qense> Everything with Proxy as well.
[21:16] <bencrisford1> qense: yeah tell me about it :D
[21:16] <bencrisford1> the "stupidcensorship" proxies are also on https://
[21:16] <bencrisford1> and they seem to work
[21:16] <qense> hidemyass isn't filtered
[21:17] <bencrisford1> porkwallet(dot)com seems to work for me :)
[21:17] <bencrisford1> http:// or https://
[21:17] <qense> Fortunately I manage the iMac lab, so I have access to the wireless network uncensored. Not that I have a laptop. ;)
[21:18] <bencrisford1> qense: heh, nice :D
[21:18] <bencrisford1> porkwallet is parked :D
[21:18] <bencrisford1> :O*
[21:18] <bencrisford1> whaaat :(
[21:18] <qense> I see no reason to abuse it, there isn't anything I can't do on school without censorship that I cannot do with.
[21:19] <qense> bencrisford1: Proxies are expensive. ;)
[21:19] <qense> Maybe the earn money by first getting popular and then parking the domain.
[21:19] <bencrisford1> qense: probably, pretty smart plan actually
[21:20] <bencrisford1> the only thing I want to get around the filter for is IM - ebuddy etc.
[21:20] <bencrisford1> I get it free on my nokia, but is not the same ;)
[21:20] <JanC> what gobby-version are we going to use?
[21:21] <JanC> as there is teh old protoco land the new one
[21:21] <qense> JanC: The wiki still says we'll use the old version, but then the wiki texts haven't been updated in a while.
[21:21] <qense> I've heard people talk about Etherpad, but I don't think that'll be used.
[21:21] <JanC> oh well, can always install at UDS  ☺
[21:21] <qense> yeah, the wireless's not bad here.
[21:22] <qense> Just some ports are blocked.
[21:22] <qense> Like 8001
[21:22] <bencrisford1> what port is gobby.ubuntu.com?
[21:22] <JanC> qense: WTF?
[21:22] <qense> good one
[21:22] <qense> JanC: I'm using 6667 right now.
[21:22] <qense> JanC: Some people had trouble SSH'ing to their home machines.
[21:22] <qense> not all
[21:23] <qense> Default Gobby port is 6522
[21:23] <qense> Lets see if it works.
[21:23] <bencrisford1> not working
[21:23] <qense> no!
[21:23] <qense> I'll bug jcastro right away.
[21:23] <bencrisford1> and my portable gobby is talking to me in dutch :/
[21:23] <qense> ?
[21:23] <bencrisford1> qense: can you translate please? :D
[21:24] <qense> bencrisford1: of course
[21:24] <qense> Blast away
[21:24] <bencrisford1> geen datarecord van aangevraagd type
[21:24] <qense> bencrisford1: no datarecord of the requested type
[21:24] <qense> I'll check downstarts for Jorge!
[21:24] <qense> afk
[21:24] <bencrisford1> ohhh, could it be that im not connected to the internet :P
[21:24] <qense> bencrisford1: You can always ask JanC
[21:25] <qense> I am
[21:25] <bencrisford1> not having gobby dont make too much difference to me, for tommorrow it wont anyway
[21:26] <bencrisford1> the only time ill be able to get on IRC/Gobby is when everyone's at lunch :P
[21:29] <JanC> bencrisford1: you never know with geeks  ;)
[21:29] <bencrisford1> JanC: lol
[21:30] <bencrisford1> hmm, is there a list of the uds-irc-rooms anywhere?
[21:30] <bencrisford1> dw, got it :)
[21:30] <JanC> I remember chatting on IRC with people sitting next to me at the table on other events, so...
[21:32] <bencrisford1> :D
[21:33] <JanC> of course, other people (not local) were involved too, so that might be an excuse  ;)
[21:34] <bencrisford1> well I should be on about 1pm your time tommorrow :)
[21:34] <bencrisford1> i'll check out gobby and irc for whats been happening then :D
[21:35] <bencrisford1> until then, im gonna get some sleep ;)
[21:35] <bencrisford1> have a good first night everyone! :)
[21:35] <nigelbabu> sleep
[21:35] <nigelbabu> that vaguely reminds me its 2 am on sunday
[21:36] <bencrisford1> nigelbabu: you've got the week off :D, dont worry about it
[21:36] <bencrisford1> just fall asleep when you need to, your keyboard won't mind
[21:36] <qense> bencrisford1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/RemoteParticipation has a list of all IRC-rooms.
[21:36] <nigelbabu> bencrisford1: sleeeping throuh uds isnt what i envisioned for this week though
[21:37] <bencrisford1> nigelbabu: thats why god invented caffeine ;)
[21:37] <bencrisford1> qense: ok, ty.  is it just #ubuntu-uds-ROOMNAME
[21:37] <bencrisford1> because the roomnames are on summit.u.c right?
[21:39] <qense> bencrisford1: yep
[21:39] <bencrisford1> ok
[21:39] <bencrisford1> night everyone :D
[21:39] <bencrisford1> speak at lunchtime ;)
[21:40] <qense> sleep well!
[22:09] <popey> moo
[22:09] <nigelbabu> popey: got there? :)
[22:09] <nigelbabu> AlanBell: where are the pics? :D
[22:21] <popey> ?
[22:21] <popey> :) i mean
[22:35]  * JanC goes to sleep too, have to get up very early tomorrow to try to not get into peak hour traffic  :-/
[22:55] <czajkowski> boo
[22:55] <czajkowski> popey: you are cracking myselg and pen up
[23:52] <AlanBell> yay, here and on the hotel wifi
[23:52] <AlanBell> just me in my room at the moment


[19:52] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:14] <olly> morning
[20:40] <mwhudson> mornings
[20:42] <ajmitch> morning


[08:26] <tjaalton> bryce: I'm tempted to use git for -intel.. since we need to pull in a number of commits from master for it to build
[08:27] <tjaalton> I've got mesa & libdrm ready, but intel needs some work still
[08:32] <bryce> tjaalton: I'd be disappointed to see that
[08:35] <tjaalton> ok then
[08:35] <tjaalton> merging by hand is not that straightforward, since grab-merge.sh doesn't work with experimental
[08:36] <tjaalton> well, it's MoM that doesn't, but anyway
[09:14] <tjaalton> libdrm & mesa uploaded
[09:23] <tjaalton> and intel too
[09:23] <bryce> \o/
[09:57] <tjaalton> Alexia_Death: what patch did you need to xorg-server?
[10:40] <soren> I'm running Jaunty on my laptop, and my X performance alternates between decent and abysmal. In the latter case, the mouse curser "jitters" somewhat when I move it around the screen, and X eats almost an entire CPU core. Disabling compiz didn't help at all.
[10:41] <soren> I would say it's decent around 15% of the time, and absolutely horrible the other 85% of the time.
[10:42] <soren> Oh, the graphics card is a intel 945, by the way.
[10:44] <tjaalton> soren: I've uploaded a new libdrm/mesa/intel, so report back if those are any better or worse
[10:51] <soren> tjaalton: When was this?
[10:53] <soren> tjaalton: Ah, 48 minutes ago, according to launchpad :)
[10:53] <soren> I'll wait a bit.
[10:53] <crevette> soren, 1 hour ago
[10:53] <soren> :)
[10:55] <tjaalton> right, it'll take a while since libdrm needs to be built & published first
[10:55] <soren> Right. I'll give the ones in xorg-edgers a chance until then..
[10:55]  * soren restarts X
[10:57] <tjaalton> hmm, I wonder if you are seeing bug 307306
[10:58] <tjaalton> lunch ->
[11:06] <soren> tjaalton: I've just taken gnom-epower-manager out of the equation, and it's still really, really slow.
[11:11] <tseliot> soren: what's the problem?
[11:12] <tseliot> or what are the symptoms?
[11:12] <tseliot> does killing the gnome-settings-daemon help?
[11:13] <soren> tseliot: Mouse pointer jitters as I move it around the screen, and performance is absolutely horrible.
[11:14] <soren> About 85% of the time.
[11:14] <tseliot> soren: kill the gnome-settings-daemon
[11:14] <soren> Right now, I'm experiencing the lovely 15% of the time, where everything is fine, so I'm trying to get some work done while it lasts :)
[11:14] <tseliot> upstream hasn't adopted my latest patches yet
[11:16] <tseliot> soren: or, if you want, you can apply the patch attached in comment 10 directly: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=568160
[11:17] <soren> tseliot: Thanks for the hint. I'll look at it when it starts happening again.
[11:17] <tseliot> ok
[11:45] <tjaalton> sigh, missing comma in libdrm's debian/control
[11:47] <tjaalton> the result was that libdrm-dev didn't depend on the new linux-libc-dev
[11:50] <tjaalton> and why do the buildd's use an older version of xserver-xorg-dev..
[11:50] <tjaalton> would've thought they always fetched the latest one
[11:53] <tjaalton> hmm, actually it is the latest one
[11:53] <tjaalton> since I didn't upload the merge yet, duh
[12:32] <tjaalton> new synaptics merge uploaded
[12:55] <soren> tjaalton: The buildd's should always use the most recent version of everything.
[12:55] <tjaalton> soren: yes, it was my mistake
[12:55] <soren> Right, I just wanted to confirm anyway. :)
[12:57] <tjaalton> I'll remember now :)
[12:57] <tjaalton> too bad that the ports archs have an outdated kernel, so basically nothing will build on them until they are updated to .28
[12:58] <tjaalton> nothing X related.. drivers, server etc
[14:45] <tjaalton> tseliot: you aware of the nvidia bug where after a while (~days) of using compiz the contents of new windows are not refreshed?
[14:46] <tseliot> tjaalton: no, what bug is it?
[14:46] <tjaalton> I thought it was a bug fixed long ago, but still happens in 180.22 (was using 169.12 on hardy before..)
[14:46] <tjaalton> well, I just described it, but I guess no-one else is using a 30" monitor :)
[14:47] <tjaalton> so I guess the video memory is exhausted or something
[14:48] <tseliot> what resolution are you using?
[14:48] <tjaalton> 2560x1600
[14:48] <tjaalton> and sometimes when I unlock the screensaver, the whole screen is behaving like that. every redraw is painfully slow
[14:49] <tjaalton> but that can be fixed by visiting a vt briefly
[14:49] <tseliot> a memory leak, perhaps?
[14:50] <tjaalton> maybe
[14:50] <tseliot> also, can you try to reinstall nvidia-glx-VERSION and restart X
[14:50] <tseliot> ?
[14:51] <tjaalton> restarting X helps, but I don't think a reinstall is needed
[14:51] <tjaalton> guess I need to file this
[14:51] <tseliot> an update of X made the system very slow here, even without breaking direct rendering
[14:52] <tseliot> it's because of a bug which I have to fix
[14:52] <tjaalton> which bug?
[14:53] <tseliot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/309116
[14:54] <tseliot> it's easy to fix
[14:58] <tjaalton> ok
[15:13] <tjaalton> hmm, the nvidia problem might be due to "powermizer"
[15:40] <tseliot> powermizer?
[15:41] <tseliot> too bad it's closed source, otherwise I wouldn't mind fixing it myself
[15:41] <tjaalton> bug 270377 for instance
[15:41] <tjaalton> and several threads on nvnews
[15:42] <tjaalton> sigh
[15:42] <tjaalton> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/270377
[15:43] <tjaalton> wrong package though
[15:45] <tseliot> tjaalton: did you subscribe Aaron Plattner to the bug
[15:45] <tseliot> ?
[15:45] <tjaalton> no
[15:45] <tjaalton> looks like he's well aware of it :)
[15:45] <tjaalton> at least should be
[15:46] <tjaalton> the driver could install the modprobe file to work around it
[15:46] <tseliot> :-/
[15:48] <tjaalton> duh, the amd64 buildd seems to be busy or broken somehow
[15:50] <tjaalton> busy it seems..
[15:50] <tseliot> what modprobe file?
[15:50] <tjaalton> a file to add options for the module
[15:51] <tjaalton> /etc/modprobe.d/*
[15:51] <tjaalton> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/270377/comments/32
[15:53] <tseliot> does it affect only some specific models?
[15:53] <tjaalton> I don't know
[15:55] <tseliot> as I would like to implement some quirks module for Jockey sooner or later
[16:47] <tseliot> tjaalton: I've just tried my patch for the "nv" driver to add the support for my card and it works
[16:47] <tseliot> I'll send it to Aaron Plattner
[16:47] <tseliot> shall I also file a bug report about it on launchpad?
[16:48] <tseliot> just to keep track of things?
[16:54] <mnem0> tjaalton: I was hit by that intel waitForVBlank freeze bug and I had tested the "dont enable vblanks on disabled pipes" drm patch which worked great on my machine... but today when the .28-5 kernel installed my intel G45 machine got unbootable --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/320525
[18:01] <tjaalton> mnem0: checkint
[18:01] <tjaalton> uh
[18:01] <tjaalton> -ing
[18:02] <tjaalton> mnem0: uh.. .NEF
[18:02] <tjaalton> please attach only jpegs or so
[19:00] <mnem0> tjaalton: sry I converted it before but then I attached the wrong file.. I attached jpg as well now
[19:00] <mnem0> plus xorg logs and dmesg
[19:00] <mnem0> will check without usplash in a sec
 jdstrand: hmm
 bryce: failsafe mode does give me this:
 (EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory
[19:18] <tjaalton> bryce: what's that?
[19:19] <bryce> jdstrand ran into that after upgrading to latest X bits (but not -intel)
[19:20] <bryce> he's run into a situation where it doesn't start up, and failsafe mode is also failing with corrupted screen
[19:20] <jcristau> logs or it didn't happen ;)
[19:20] <bryce> I suggested he update to the newest -intel
[19:21] <bryce> jcristau: heh
[19:21] <jdstrand> bryce: amd64 -instal is still in 'needs building'
[19:21] <bryce> jdstrand: price of admission is posting your Xorg.0.log[.old] files somewhere we can see them
[19:21] <jdstrand> -intel
[19:21] <tjaalton> the thing is that the other amd64 buildd is stuck with qt4-x11
[19:21] <tjaalton> so amd64 is left behind
[19:22] <bryce> tjaalton: do the changes require a rebuild of the driver (or maybe just -intel)?
[19:22] <jdstrand> I can post the logs, but it seems maybe I just don't have the necessary bits cause of poor upgrade timing
[19:23] <tjaalton> bryce: if it failed to build, then just retrying is enough
[19:23] <tjaalton> but "needs building" means that the queue is just too long
[19:24] <tjaalton> yellow(amd64 buildd) has been building qt4-x11 for three days now
[19:24] <bryce> tjaalton: no I mean, would using a new xserver/mesa with old -intel cause problems (e.g. ABI mismatches)?
[19:24] <tjaalton> I know for a fact that with the old intel and new libdrm X won't start
[19:24] <bryce> three days??
[19:24] <jdstrand> Xorg.0.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/108701/
[19:25] <tjaalton> bryce: yes
[19:25] <bryce> tjaalton: aha
[19:25] <tjaalton> and without the new mesa compiz fails
[19:25] <jdstrand> Xorg.0.log.old: http://paste.ubuntu.com/108702/
[19:25] <tjaalton> but this is jaunty so I didn't feel like adding a bunch of Breaks :/
[19:26] <bryce> tjaalton: do you think it'd make any difference if he were to manually rebuild the old 2.5 -intel against the new X bits?  e.g. is it just ABI breakage, or API stuff too?
[19:26] <tjaalton> bryce: no idea.. I reported that upstream and they asked if 2.6 works. when it did, they closed the bug :)
[19:26] <tjaalton> better just grab the new source and build that
[19:27] <jdstrand> bingo!
[19:27] <tjaalton> yeah, the logfile matches mine
[19:27] <bryce> ok cool
[19:27] <tjaalton> mnem0: maybe the same issue for you then
[19:27] <jdstrand> bryce: apparently I did *not* downgrade libdrm2, just libdrm-intel1
[19:27] <bryce> jdstrand: aha, that could do it
[19:27] <jdstrand> bryce: I put both at 2.4.1-0ubuntu9 and it started
[19:28] <mnemo> aha, did you downgrade libdrm-intel1 by mistake or what happened?
[19:28] <jdstrand> \o/
[19:28] <tjaalton> that works
[19:28] <jdstrand> mnemo: both upgraded without the new -intel. during triage, I only downgraded the one
[19:28] <tjaalton> damn g-s-d keeps crashing on me
[19:30] <tjaalton> bryce: btw, the new mesa now uses vblank for intel, because the drm drivers were fixed. It means that we'll get a ton of bugreports saying 'glxgears showing only 50fps!!!1!' :P
[19:31] <bryce> awesome
[19:31] <tjaalton> it's been the default since 7.1, but it was fixed only recently (jbarnes)
[19:31] <tjaalton> so we had it disabled
[19:31]  * bryce nods
[19:31] <bryce> was wondering about that
[19:32] <bryce> keithp mentioned it to me a while back and wondered when it'd hit ubuntu :-)
[19:33] <tjaalton> I git-bisected it last summer
[19:33] <tjaalton> my laptop froze when the display was turned off
[19:33] <tjaalton> by the screensaver
[19:40] <bryce> tjaalton: do fps == refresh rate exactly now?
[19:40] <tjaalton> yes
[19:40] <jcristau> in general, fps <= refresh rate. in glxgears, it's ==
[19:40] <tjaalton> at least in glxgears
[19:40] <bryce> ok
[19:41] <bryce> so regarding the worry of user complaints I think it should be straightforward to explain
[19:41] <pwnguin> speaking of glxgears
[19:41] <bryce> if we see a lot of bug reports to this affect I can probably rig up an automated reply
[19:41] <tjaalton> bryce: yes; 'glxgears is not a benchmark'
[19:41] <bryce> er, s/affect/effect/
[19:41] <pwnguin> doesn't it require -iacknowledgethisisnotabnechmark option?
[19:41] <jcristau> glxgearsisnotabenchmarkkthxbye
[19:42] <jcristau> pwnguin: not anymore, sadly
[19:42] <pwnguin> jcristau: any reason not to put it back?
[19:42] <bryce> users don't appear to know what a benchmark is anyway
[19:42] <mnemo> could someone explain to me what it means to have vblank enabled versus disabled? and also why would that result in lower fps in glxgears? and finally who is that lower FPS count not a problem?
[19:42] <pwnguin> heh
[19:42] <bryce> lol
[19:42] <tjaalton> mnemo: you don't see the "extra" fps anyway
[19:42] <bryce> mnemo: sure
[19:43] <bryce> your monitor can only show a certain number of frames per second
[19:43] <pwnguin> vblank is the interrupt that tells the hardware a new frame can be drawn
[19:43] <bryce> this is called your "refresh rate"
[19:43] <mnemo> right vblank used to be when the electron beam returned to the other side of the screen or somethin right?
[19:43] <pwnguin> enabling vblank handling means you only need to render when a new frame is available to display
[19:43] <bryce> for LCD's, 60 hz is common
[19:43] <mnemo> rights to LCD is 60 FPS sort of?
[19:44] <pwnguin> when its disabled, the fps count is lying to you
[19:44] <bryce> so the xserver/-intel is now being **really clever** and timing its screen draws to match what your hardware is actually capable of
[19:44] <bryce> so if it were putting out 120fps, your monitor would only show every other one anyway
[19:45] <mnemo> aahh so with vblank enabled im actually saving some CPU by not wasting time rendering frames that wont be shown anyway?
[19:45] <pwnguin> matching fps to refresh rate should reduce power consumption
[19:45] <bryce> so why bother?  save some processor cycles and only send the ones that are actually going to get drawn
[19:45] <tjaalton> mm, dogfood
[19:45] <bryce> it's very cool
[19:45] <pwnguin> mnemo: well, it gets a bit complicated, but basically yes
[19:45] <mnemo> that seems like a very nice feature indeed
[19:45] <pwnguin> if look up double-buffering in wikipedia
[19:45] <bryce> but yeah this means glxgears is going to show much different fps measurements
[19:45] <pwnguin> s/if//
[19:45] <mnemo> mmkay makes sense
[19:45] <tjaalton> I actually get over a 1000 now without vblank :)
[19:45] <pwnguin> glxgears is a shitty measurement though
[19:46] <bryce> I think we can say if your glxgears fps match your monitor refresh rate, you're running optimally
[19:46] <tjaalton> on 965
[19:46] <pwnguin> glxgears numbers track "buffer clearing" speed
[19:46] <bryce> tjaalton: heh, you realize people are going to turn off vblank now, as a "performance improvement"  ;-)
[19:46] <pwnguin> ie how fast your hardware can clear out the old frame for a new one
[19:46] <tjaalton> bryce: I bet.. "here's my xorg.conf, you can use it"
[19:47] <bryce> it'll be worth chuckles
[19:47] <tjaalton> there were posts like that on nvnews.net.. showing everything like what modules to load and stuff
[19:47] <pwnguin> glxgears has no textures, barely any geometry, no lighting, or anything relevant to the apps users actually care about
[19:48] <pwnguin> you could probably replace glxgears with "grep (ati|nvidia|fglrx) /var/log/Xorg.0.log" and not lose any information
[19:49] <bryce> heh
[19:49] <bryce> we could be clever and hack glxgears to replace the printouts of xxx fps with % refresh rate
[19:50] <bryce> so it'd print 100% 101% 99% 100% ...
[19:50] <tjaalton> "don't touch the mouse!"
[19:50] <tjaalton> (to keep it ~100%)
[19:52] <bryce> ;-)
[19:54] <tjaalton> oh, aaronp posted on the "x-server breakage" forum thread, and confirmed that the next releases will support 1.6
[19:54] <bryce> yep, I saw a reply from him in one of the -nvidia bug reports saying similarly
[19:54] <bryce> I need to email them again... monday maybe
[20:36] <andersk> The most recent Jaunty updates caused two problems.  First, my touchpad is moving around the screen way faster than normal.
[20:37] <andersk> And second, if I drag any window to any edge of the screen, it immediately jumps to the upper-left corner.
[20:37] <andersk> (The latter occurs with Compiz only.)
[20:37] <tjaalton> drag with the touchpad or same with the mouse?
[20:38] <andersk> With the touchpad.  Let me go find a mouse...
[20:38] <tjaalton> there probably are some issues with the new synaptics
[20:38] <tjaalton> because some defaults have been changed
[20:39] <andersk> With the touchpad only.  So yeah, this points to a synaptics problem.
[20:40] <tjaalton> ok, please file a bug against it
[20:40] <andersk> Will do.
[20:40] <jcristau> maybe you could play with xinput to see which settings affect it
[20:42] <tjaalton> right, there are not many changes upstream since 1.0rc3
[20:47] <andersk> It looks like most synaptics bugs are being reported against the source package xserver-xorg-input-synaptics, even though it was renamed in Hardy to xfree86-driver-synaptics.
[20:50] <tjaalton> yes, because it's called that in debian
[20:50] <tjaalton> but we "support" the old name too
[20:50] <tjaalton> well, the debian package really should be renamed to that
[20:50] <tjaalton> so in future it should be called x-x-i-synaptics again
[20:55] <jcristau> yeah xfree86-driver-synaptics doesn't make much sense anymore
[20:56] <tjaalton> especially as the git repo is called x-x-i-s
[20:56] <jcristau> it's to make sure you get confused
[20:56] <tjaalton> I have :)
[20:56] <jcristau> every time
[20:56] <tjaalton> you surely have the power to rename it?-)
[20:57] <andersk> bug 320639
[20:57] <jcristau> i think i'd rather rename the source package than the git repo
[20:57] <tjaalton> jcristau: of course :)
[20:57] <tjaalton> andersk: thanks
[20:59] <pwnguin> what's the xorg.conf setting i need to re-enable zapping?
[20:59] <jcristau> pwnguin: Option "NoDontZap"
[20:59] <andersk> Option "DontZap" "False" in ServerFlags.
[20:59] <pwnguin> ok
[20:59] <pwnguin> nouveau isn't quite to the point where i don't need it ;)
[21:00] <jcristau> (it's like Option "NoXaaNoOffscreenPixmaps" "false" all over again)
[21:00] <pwnguin> well, i agree with the idea
[21:01] <pwnguin> i just live more dangerously than is prudent
[21:01] <jcristau> i meant the fact that the option name has a negation in it
[21:01] <pwnguin> oh
[21:07] <_MMA_> I switched video cards (both nvidia) now I cant get X to start at all. Blew out my Xorg. Tried to use vesa in xorg. No screens found. Nothing. Is there some trick to get it to build the module again or something? DKMS?
[21:12] <tjaalton> either specify the BusID or take one out
[21:12] <tjaalton> oh
[21:12] <tjaalton> I misread :)
[21:12] <_MMA_> :P
[21:13] <bryce> _MMA_: you forgot to post a link to your Xorg.0.log ;-)
[21:13] <_MMA_> :P
[21:13] <_MMA_> I should note this is a SLI setup so it could have to do with the busID.
[21:14] <tjaalton> so you _do_ have two of them? yes you need the BusID with 8.10 or jaunty
[21:15] <_MMA_> tjaalton: Yeah. Went from 1 card (9 series) to 2 (both 7 series). Runnin' Intrepid.
[21:15] <_MMA_> I guess X wasn't as bullet proff as I thought. :P
[21:16] <tjaalton> the bug is upstream, but unfortunately not seeing much action
[21:16] <_MMA_> ouch
[21:16] <tjaalton> although it's on the list of blockers for xserver 1.6
[21:16] <tjaalton> (well, I added it)
[21:16] <_MMA_> I think I have the old xorg with both cards somewhere.
[21:17] <_MMA_> Thing is, the live disk gives me X. Im just trying to get, *something*
[21:17]  * _MMA_ pokes around.
[21:18] <tjaalton> livecd does? strange
[21:18] <tjaalton> it shouldn't
[21:20] <andersk> So here's another problem.  gnome-screensaver always fails to unlock the screen now.
[21:20] <andersk> After I enter the correct password, gnome-screensaver-dialog sits there displaying "Checking..."
[21:20] <andersk> And top shows that the CPU is spinning, with about 65% gnome-screensaver-dialog and 35% Xorg.
[21:22] <tjaalton> works here
[21:31] <_MMA_> tjaalton: It was the BusID. Thanx for the reminder.
[21:50] <andersk> I've bisected the gnome-screensaver unlock problem to the gtk+2.0 2.14.5-1ubuntu2 -> 2.15.0-0ubuntu1 upgrade.
[21:51] <tjaalton> I've got it too
[21:51] <tjaalton> that version of gtk+
[21:51] <andersk> Huh.
[21:51] <tjaalton> maybe you are missing something..
[21:52] <tjaalton> which mirror?
[21:52] <andersk> archive.ubuntu.com
[21:52] <tjaalton> ok, same
[22:02] <andersk> Aha, got it.  I can only reproduce with "export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim" in ~/.gnomerc.
[22:06] <tjaalton> nice
[22:06] <tseliot> tjaalton: did you upload a new version of the synaptics driver?
[22:06] <tjaalton> tseliot: yes
[22:07] <tjaalton> some defaults have chagned
[22:07] <tseliot> I have noticed these 2 bug reports:
[22:07] <tjaalton> -nged
[22:07] <tseliot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfree86-driver-synaptics/+bug/320632
[22:07] <tseliot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/320639
[22:07] <tseliot> I'll try the new driver tomorrow and if it bugs me I'll write a patch
[22:07] <tjaalton> ok
[22:08] <tseliot> tjaalton: oh and did you read about my patch for nv
[22:08] <tseliot> ?
[22:08] <tjaalton> yes, and saw that you posted it upstream
[22:08] <tseliot> what are we going to do about it?
[22:09] <tseliot> shall we include it as a patch in ubuntu or wait for a new release of nv?
[22:10] <tjaalton> a patch is fine
[22:10] <tseliot> and do you want me to file a bug report about it?
[22:10] <tjaalton> preferably yes
[22:10] <tjaalton> might get lost otherwise
[22:10] <tseliot> ok, good
[22:11] <tseliot> yes, it better if we keep track of the patch
[22:11] <tseliot> s/it/it's/
[22:12] <tjaalton> what the heck
[22:12] <tjaalton> DRI2 works, but I do get bigger fps than vblank with glxgears
[22:12] <tjaalton> this is with UXA
[22:13] <tjaalton> s/vblank/refresh-rate/
[22:13] <tseliot> how much is it?
[22:13] <jcristau> does it matter? :)
[22:13] <tseliot> or is it too fast?
[22:13] <tjaalton> well it should show ~50
[22:14] <tjaalton> but it's not
[22:14] <tjaalton> with EXA it does
[22:14] <tjaalton> but then I get no DRI2
[22:14] <jcristau> i'm not sure dri2 has a mechanism for vsync yet
[22:16] <tjaalton> probably so
[22:16] <tjaalton> oh well, EXA is the default anyway
[22:18] <andersk> I reported bug 320666 for gnome-screensaver and gtk+2.0.
[22:18] <bryce> tjaalton: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/totals.svg
[22:19] <tjaalton> bryce: wow :)
[22:20] <tjaalton> btw, we should probably move the -mouse/-kbd bugs over to evdev if they still apply
[22:21] <bryce> yep
[22:21] <bryce> how do we determine that they still apply?  ask users to retest jaunty?
[22:21] <tjaalton> something like that..
[22:22] <tjaalton> not that many of them
[22:22] <bryce> yeah
[22:22] <tjaalton> and some are likely misfiled
[22:22] <tseliot> tjaalton: here's my report with the patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nv/+bug/320671
[22:23] <tjaalton> tseliot: ok thanks
[22:23] <bryce> there might also be some -evdev bugs misfiled against xkeyboard-config
[22:23] <bryce> I took out all the hotkey bugs from there and that cut it down a lot
[22:25] <tjaalton> yep
[22:39] <tjaalton> so unplugging a wacom tablet really kills the xserver
[22:40] <tjaalton> ..and that concludes my day, night!
[22:41] <bryce> night
[23:01] <Alexia_Death> tjaalton: It wont if you take the 0.8.2-2 (I hope, ping put a build swithc in that one)