[12:00] <swoon> LinuxJones: ok now I got: gcc-version-check failed: ./usr/src/nv/conftest.sh: line 1: cc: command not found Could not compile gcc version-check.c   and ascs to ignore the check and continue or abort...
[12:00] <punkass_> lml, i do cuz i can modprobe ndiswrapper without error
[12:00] <LinuxJones> swoon, apt-get update && apt-get install build-essentials
[12:00] <punkass_> defendguin: do you have ndiswrapper-utils installed?
[12:00] <defendguin> sabdfl, im doing fine no problems here
[12:01] <defendguin> i used ndiswrapper -m to save the config
[12:01] <lml> punkass_: maybe the current package is missing the module so the one you allready had installed is still there but not compiled against another version of ndis?
[12:01] <defendguin> no i think i just have the wrapper
[12:01] <swoon> LinuxJones: brb
[12:01] <slarti> LinuxJones: why does ubuntu come with a /usr/src/rpm directory by default?
[12:01] <defendguin> what is included in the utils?
[12:02] <lml> defendguin: what do you mean? Do you want the file list?
[12:03] <defendguin> lml, well what binaries
[12:03] <LinuxJones> slarti, I have no idea :D
[12:03] <swoon> LinuxJones, I get couldnt find package build-essentials could it be called something else?
[12:03] <punkass_> lml: /lib/modules/<IP_ADDRESS>-2-386/misc/ndiswrapper.ko
[12:04] <lml> defendguin: I do not know how to get that information?
[12:04] <slarti> LinuxJones: I'm following the discussion you're having with swoon and I'm about to install a new kernel.  One simple question, though.
[12:04] <lml> punkass_: Such a file is not present on my system installing the current ndiswrapper-utils package. Probably why modprobe does not work ;-)
[12:05] <defendguin> lml, yeah
[12:05] <LinuxJones> swoon, are you running amd64 ?
[12:05] <LinuxJones> slarti, sure
[12:05] <swoon> LinuxJones: yes I am
[12:05] <swoon> why?
[12:05] <punkass_> originally i didnt know there was an ndiswrapper package so installed from the source
[12:06] <lml> punkass_: I do not even have a misc directory.
[12:06] <defendguin> i installed from source as well
[12:06] <defendguin> you should build it for your kernel
[12:06] <LinuxJones> swoon, argh someone had a bunch of trouble getting nvidia installed last night. I don't have a 64 so I can't help out sorry :(
[12:06] <swoon> LinuxJones: please dont give up on me yet, if I dont get this driver installed I  cannot use X at all
[12:07] <punkass_> LinuxJones: there is no 64bit nvidia-glx package...yet
[12:07] <lml> defenguin: Ok, so the -utils extension really means everything but the acutal module then? Why then have the package in the first place?
[12:07] <slarti> LinuxJones: I just ran apt-get install linux-source and part of the output reads: Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>-12
[12:07] <LinuxJones> swoon, are you using the restricted repository ?
[12:07] <swoon> punkass_ there is another 64 bit nvidia linux driver though...
[12:07] <swoon> LinuxJones: Im using whatever the default did for me
[12:07] <slarti> LinuxJones: what does the <IP_ADDRESS>-12 refer to exactly?
[12:07] <punkass_> oh
[12:08] <defendguin> lml, no idea i didnt package it
[12:08] <LinuxJones> punkass_, he is trying to build from nvidia source.
[12:08] <punkass_> ah i see
[12:08] <LinuxJones> slarti, that is a directory containing the kernel source
[12:08] <swoon> LinuxJones: am I using the correct repository?
[12:08] <LinuxJones> swoon, run synaptic
[12:09] <swoon> LinuxJones: can I run synaptic from command ilne? remember I cannot use X now... command only
[12:09] <liran> how i can install gtk2 ?
[12:09] <slarti> LinuxJones: I guess what I meant is what exactly does the '-12' refer to.  I've been told (by Kamion?) that it is not a version number, but something else.
[12:09] <LinuxJones> swoon, argh hehe
[12:09] <lml> defendguin: I am off to bed now, so I will have to look into this in the weekend.
[12:09] <defendguin> :) im sure you will figure it out
[12:10] <lml> defendguin & punkass_: thanx for the help.
[12:10] <slarti> swoon: synaptic is a gui front-end for apt (and apt-get)
[12:10] <slarti> swoon: by using apt-get, you are essentially using a command line form of synaptic
[12:10] <LinuxJones> swoon, nano /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:10] <punkass_> np....now i wish i could get my wireless working :(
[12:11] <swoon> LinuxJones: done
[12:11] <defendguin> punkass_, what seems to be the problem?
[12:11] <guptan> Hi Room
[12:11] <punkass_> i can set iwconfig and it shows my essid and key
[12:11] <guptan> from where can I get ximian-artwork for ubuntu?
[12:12] <punkass_> but when i run,   ifup wlan0
[12:12] <slarti> LinuxJones: oh, that's great!  i didn't know there was a free version of pico!
[12:12] <punkass_> i just get a bunch of DHCPDISCOVER messages then it times out
[12:12] <LinuxJones> swoon, my repos are >> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty main restricted universe adjust accordingly for your amd64 tree.
[12:12] <LoneTech> punkass: ifup is part of ifupdown, and will read /etc/network/interfaces. It'll set up anything put there, and it should be possible to put essid there too.
[12:13] <LinuxJones> slarti, ya, btw I thought -12  was a minor release number
[12:13] <LoneTech> are your settings still the same in iwconfig after the attempted ifup?
[12:13] <punkass_> yes i know...the frusterating thing is that i updated the system over wireless...then reboot...then no more wireless
[12:13] <defendguin> punkass i never run ifup wlan0
[12:13] <punkass_> i try dhclient wlan0   and get the same thing
[12:13] <defendguin> once i set the config i just run dhclient with no arguments
[12:14] <defendguin> maybe you are setting the settings wrong
[12:14] <LoneTech> many cards can only change the iwconfig settings while down, so you'd want to be sure nothing comes between iwconfig and ifconfig up.
[12:14] <punkass_> but like i say...it was fine right before the update
[12:15] <punkass_> all i did was update and reboot
[12:15] <Bliksem> im a linux noob... I need to be able to mount my fat32 partition as user, and access all files and folders within it
[12:15] <slarti> LinuxJones: ah, good.  that's what i thought too, but Kamion seemed to think differently.  shrug.
[12:15] <swoon> LinuxJones: it seems mine is the same other than "universe" should I add that?
[12:15] <itsugas> hello
[12:15] <Bliksem> ive managed to mount it, mut cant open folders within the mounted drive
[12:15] <Bliksem> *but
[12:16] <itsugas> hay alguien que hable espaol?
[12:17] <punkass_> defendguin: after   ifup  wlan0     the Essid is still set but not the key
[12:17] <swoon> LinuxJones: are you sure its called build-essentials ?
[12:17] <punkass_> swoon: no s
[12:17] <defendguin> hmmmm
[12:17] <defendguin> i havent been using a key
[12:17] <swoon> ugg no wonder then
[12:17] <punkass_> :)
[12:17] <defendguin> maybe this is your problem
[12:17] <LinuxJones> swoon, build-essentials should be in main, I don't kow what is going on.
[12:17] <punkass_> could be
[12:18] <defendguin> try with wep turned off
[12:18] <Bliksem> please help, how can i access the folders on my mounted drive? how can users get permission?
[12:18] <swoon> LinuxJones: its build-essential :\
[12:18] <LoneTech> that reminds me, is wpasupplicant integrated into ubuntu?
[12:18] <LinuxJones> swoon, ya that's it :D OOPS
[12:19] <tortoise__> when i put in a usb memory stick it registers on the device manager and loads the vfat module but the icon doesnt appear, anyone know why??
[12:19] <swoon> brb
[12:20] <punkass_> defendguin: thats it...disabled the wep key on the router and ding..got a connection
[12:20] <tortoise__> what services are needed to hal a usb memory stick?
[12:21] <punkass_> defendguin: but i need to be able to use a wep key :)
[12:21] <defendguin> punkass_ well at least you know where the problem is
[12:22] <punkass_> true enough
[12:22] <clee> daniels: ping
[12:23] <liran> how do i do print screen ?
[12:23] <liran> import does`nt exists
[12:24] <punkass_> Computer > Take Screenshot
[12:24] <LoneTech> gimp normally has a screen capture function. import would be an imagemagick command. the ancient X method is using xwd.
[12:24] <mjr> liran, hm? Computer / Sc... right, what punk said
[12:24] <clee> or, the print-screen key on your keyboard
[12:24] <LoneTech> and others know ubuntu much better than I (:
[12:25] <calc> clee: hi
[12:25] <new_ubuntu_user> Hi, I was wondering if anyone has gotten Suspend or Hibernation to work on a notebook using Ubuntu?
[12:26] <clee> hiya, calc
[12:26] <calc> clee: i noticed you are on the placestostay list but aren't going yourself?
[12:26] <clee> calc: well, if somebody comes to my place, then I'll be going
[12:26] <clee> calc: If nobody wants to, then I'm not :)
[12:26] <calc> heh
[12:26] <mjr> by the way, my print screen doesn't work, even if I reset the screenshot keybinding to it
[12:26] <calc> clee: so you want someone to come to your place to give you a reason to go? ;)
[12:26] <mjr> wonder if it's a bug that manifests on my finnish keyboard
[12:27] <clee> calc: I didn't say that. :)
[12:27] <clee> mjr: finnish? that's vierd.
[12:27] <calc> heh
[12:27] <punkass_> defendguin: well if i hard code the wep in   interfaces   it works
[12:27] <defendguin> sweet
[12:27] <defendguin> go with it
[12:27] <LoneTech> new_ubuntu_user: yes, for my laptop, APM only, I just added a script to virtually eject/insert the PC Card on suspends.
[12:27] <punkass_> yes but i need it to be mobile
[12:28] <punkass_> and my boss doesnt want to be editing the interface file when he is sittin in an airport :)
[12:28] <LoneTech> punkass: well, that's highly dependent on the state of your wireless driver then... something like waproamd might help
[12:28] <new_ubuntu_user> LoneTech: My PC uses ACPI not APM
[12:29] <LoneTech> new_ubuntu_user: well, good luck, I don't have much experience with that.
[12:29] <punkass_> LoneTech: well it was working
[12:29] <defendguin> punkass_, i wish there was a gui tool to scan for interfaces and then configure the card to use that interface
[12:29] <punkass_> defendguin: i made one :)
[12:29] <new_ubuntu_user> LoneTech: Thanks anyway.
[12:30] <defendguin> oh you did?
[12:30] <defendguin> can i see?
[12:30] <punkass_> sure
[12:30] <Bliksem> how do i get full access to a mounted fat32 drive when logged in as a user?
[12:30] <Bliksem> <---- linux newbie
[12:30] <punkass_> http://punkass.bookerb.com/2stepdh/pyfi.tar.gz
[12:30] <defendguin> maybe a screenshot or two? or did you have a debian package?
[12:31] <punkass_> its just a small python app
[12:31] <punkass_> it even loads ndis if needed
[12:31] <LoneTech> Bliksem: it'd have to be mounted for access by that user. I think ubuntu has some scripts in place for that, but I'm not in front of my ubuntu box.
[12:31] <punkass_> you will have to edit the top of the py file
[12:31] <defendguin> punkass_ it needs to be run with root to do anything?
[12:31] <punkass_> yes sudo
[12:32] <defendguin> edit the top of it?
[12:32] <punkass_> open it and u will see a couple config lines u will need to change
[12:32] <punkass_> at the top
[12:33] <defendguin> will do
[12:34] <Jisao> Where can I find the (serious) explanation of the Super Cow Powers used by aptitude?
[12:34] <swoon> uggh ok Im getting another error now after finally installing build-essential :  If you are using a linux 2.6 kernel please make sure you have  configured kernel sources matching your kernel istalled on your system.  do I not have the proper source? do I maybe not have amd 64 kernel source?
[12:35] <LoneTech> good example of where you'd want to separate privileges.. the only reason that script runs as root is so iwconfig can do its work. would be neater to have it request it off something like sudo.
[12:35] <LoneTech> swoon: basically you want apt-get install kernel-headers-`uname -r`
[12:36] <mdz> LoneTech: s/kernel/linux/
[12:36] <LoneTech> but then making things look for that might be another story
[12:36] <LoneTech> thanks, mdz. too used to debian.
[12:37] <swoon> LoneTech:  can I do a search for available kernel-headers?
[12:37] <LoneTech> swoon: sure, just use apt-cache search whatever
[12:37] <defendguin> punkass_, how well does this work? and why isnt there already anything like it?
[12:37] <punkass_> lol
[12:38] <punkass_> there is a few
[12:38] <punkass_> wifi radar, and netapplet
[12:38] <Bliksem> ok well i'll give mounting a rest, will it be a mission getting my 5.1 set up?
[12:38] <defendguin> the netapplet kinda sucked for me
[12:38] <Bliksem> ive got an audgy 2 btw...
[12:38] <punkass_> i am in the process of turning mine into an applet
[12:38] <swoon> LoneTech:  how can I check what kernel-headers are now installed
[12:38] <punkass_> it think it works pretty good
[12:38] <punkass_> only works with dhcp right nwo
[12:38] <punkass_> er now
[12:39] <defendguin> thats fine
[12:39] <punkass_> but its scans when it starts.. finds wireless networks...and remebers wep keys if connection is sucessfu
[12:39] <LoneTech> swoon: "dpkg -l 'linux-headers-*'" might work. you could probably do all these tasks from synaptic or aptitude too.
[12:39] <punkass_> LoneTech: swoon has no X :)
[12:40] <LoneTech> ah
[12:40] <LoneTech> well, aptitude is my personal favourite, and doesn't require X.
[12:40] <punkass_> true
[12:43] <swoon> wow trying to get this kernel-headers gives me alsorts of unment dependencies... firs kernel-headers-2.6.7-5-amd64  is one, then kernel-headers-<IP_ADDRESS> is another, and now kernel-kbuild-2.6-1 ! should I get all these dependencies?
[12:43] <swoon> can I tell it to automatically get dependencies?
[12:43] <LoneTech> apt should normally select dependencies automatically
[12:44] <LoneTech> do you have half-installed packages or something? "apt-get -f install" tries to clean that up.
[12:44] <goatboy> swoon: you want linux-headers, not kernel-headers.
[12:44] <defendguin> punkass hmm not bad
[12:45] <defendguin> i like it as a matter of fact
[12:45] <punkass_> hehe thanks...
[12:45] <swoon> brb
[12:45] <punkass_> my first attempt at python/pygtk
[12:46] <defendguin> heh
[12:46] <defendguin> punkass when i tried netapplet i didnt see any icon for it in my notification area it was just a blank space
[12:47] <phosphorgreen> lo every1
[12:47] <defendguin> punkass would you like some sort of an icon for this app?
[12:47] <slarti> the default warty kernel is <IP_ADDRESS>-3.  i would like to have <IP_ADDRESS>-12.  i've already downloaded and untarred the source.  i have gcc and kernel-package, but i don't know what kernel-package is for.  any ideas?
[12:47] <evilmegaman> hi
[12:48] <swoon> ok after installing the linux-header proper one, I still get that error:  If you are using a linux 2.6 kernel please make sure you have configured kernel sources matching your kernel l istalled on your system. do I not have the proper source? do I maybe not have amd 64 kernel source
[12:48] <phosphorgreen> i have 1 question. Running warty. My nautilus doesn't detect blank cdr's, any idea why?
[12:48] <swoon> dismiss last sentence in that post
[12:48] <Bliksem> 5.1 sound on audigy 2? this gonna be a mission to get right?
[12:48] <evilmegaman> I am still having problems with (any) linux and not recognizing my cd drive even though it recognized it two days ago
[12:48] <evilmegaman> I can't install linux now
[12:48] <phosphorgreen> it recognises the drive. both drives i have are found fine
[12:49] <slarti> just go back two days any time you want to use your computer.
[12:49] <LoneTech> evilmegaman: is it properly connected then?
[12:49] <phosphorgreen> i can go to disks in nautilus, and if there is something in cdrom1 ,it'll mount it
[12:49] <evilmegaman> Yes because it works in windows
[12:49] <swoon> LoneTech: after installing the proper linux-headers was there anything else I needed to do?
[12:50] <LoneTech> swoon: depends on what you're trying to do. most things don't need the kernel headers at all, and a very few want the full source.
[12:50] <LoneTech> many of those that do need the headers also need to be told somehow where they are
[12:50] <swoon> LoneTech: Im compiling nvidia driver... amd 64...
[12:51] <phosphorgreen> evilmegaman: how are your drives connected?
[12:51] <LoneTech> good luck. I must go to bed now
[12:51] <swoon> this is nuts, I simply cannot get this thing compiled@
[12:51] <swoon> !
[12:52] <swoon> and without it I cannot use X!! its driving me nuts
[12:52] <phosphorgreen> sorry swoon i didnt hear the start of your convo. what r u trying to compile?
[12:52] <swoon> phosphorgreen: the amd 64 nvidia driver
[12:53] <phosphorgreen> hmm i gave up on it. I installed ubuntu-i386 and i lived happily ever after
[12:53] <evilmegaman> Phosphorgreen I have no idea how the drive is connected
[12:53] <phosphorgreen> evilmegaman: find out how it is connected. ensure it is set to bootable in the BIOS of your PC.
[12:54] <defendguin> punkass_ would you like me to draw you an icon for your little app
[12:54] <punkass_> sorry defendguin was on the phone...
[12:54] <evilmegaman> it is bootable. but how do I find out how it's connected? open the computer up?
[12:54] <phosphorgreen> swoon: if you really want to install the driver I believe you need to download the kernel headers, kernel source and let the nvidia.com driver bin file compile the correct module. Is that what you have done?
[12:55] <slarti> swoon: I think LinuxJones meant build-essential, not build-essentials.
[12:55] <punkass_> you can if you like, i have one in the works....but yours could turn out better
[12:55] <evilmegaman> btw it's a SONY DVD RW DW-U18A
[12:55] <slarti> swoon: sudo apt-get install build-essential
[12:55] <Bliksem> how do you get the kernel sources? is there an apt-get ???
[12:55] <swoon> phosphorgreen: yes thats what Ive been trying to do and I get this error:  If you are using a linux 2.6 kernel please make sure you have configured kernel sources matching your kernel istalled on your system. do I not have the proper source? do I maybe not have amd 64 kernel source?
[12:55] <phosphorgreen> evilmegaman: if your using an IDE drive, then you should be able to see it listed on boot (before OS startup). Try using the pause key if it flashes by toof sat
[12:55] <phosphorgreen> too fast
[12:55] <swoon> slarti: yes thanks Ive gotten it
[12:56] <defendguin> punkass_ could you show me what you have so far?
[12:56] <phosphorgreen> swoon: are you entirely sure that the CD you have is bootable?
[12:56] <punkass_> cant right now..im at work
[12:56] <defendguin> oh ok
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> well adios people, gotta go.
[12:57] <defendguin> i dont see either wifi radar or netapplet on apt :(
[12:57] <evilmegaman> Ok thanks
[12:57] <swoon> phosphorgreen:  um was the CD question for me?
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> yes swoon
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> no swoon
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> oops
[12:57] <swoon> ah
[12:57] <jsubl2> swoon, what driver you after
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> it was for evilmegama
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> l8rs
[12:58] <punkass_> wifi radar didnt work well for me, it uses dhcpcd..
[12:58] <swoon> jsubl2: Im trying to install/compile the nvidia amd 64 driver
[12:58] <defendguin> oh
[12:58] <defendguin> and we use dhclient
[12:58] <punkass_> theantix: has made a dep of netapplet i believe...but i had the same 'no icon' thing when i tried it
[12:58] <punkass_> yup
[12:58] <defendguin> yeah
[12:59] <jsubl2> swoon, oh.  they don't have the linux-restricted-modules package for amd64
[12:59] <defendguin> what kind of an icon did you have in mind?
[12:59] <cog> did my first ubuntu install the other day.
[01:00] <punkass_> well i was just thinkin some kinda box with antenna thing or somethin
[01:00] <swoon> jsubl2: Im trying to compile not using a package
[01:00] <cog> i'm used to having to read through piles of stuff, find numbers on motherboards and read stuff off cards, this sucker was so easy as to be boring.
[01:00] <defendguin> i was envisioning some concentric circles
[01:01] <cog> all i did was watch princess mononoke and press enter a couple times.
[01:02] <punkass_> well go wild...if its slick, i may just use it :)
[01:02] <swoon> can anyone tell me how to remove/uninstall the linux-source, and linux-headers ? I think I may have the wrong ones... want to start over
[01:02] <punkass_> apt-get remove linux-source
[01:02] <defendguin> sweet
[01:02] <defendguin> svg icon is ook?
[01:02] <punkass_> sure
[01:03] <cog> which brings me to the point at hand... this sucker needs to install tuxracer first. and then you can play that while its installing.
[01:03] <punkass_> got a lot of work first tho to send it out into the world
[01:03] <swoon> punkass_ and to check if it was removed?
[01:03] <defendguin> punkass_ its still nice to have something to recognize the project by
[01:03] <punkass_> ture
[01:03] <punkass_> er true
[01:04] <defendguin> and have somehting for a launcher instead of using something else
[01:04] <cog> are you guys making a new logo?
[01:04] <swoon> punkass_ ?
[01:04] <defendguin> cog, for punkass's lettle wifi app
[01:05] <punkass_> /usr/src/linux should be empty
[01:05] <swoon> punkass_ ok then that didnt work, can I remove it manually somehow?
[01:05] <evilmegaman> it seems like my bios is perfect..
[01:05] <punkass_> well i just use a launcher using gksudo so i get a root password box
[01:06] <swoon> punkass_ can I just rm name all the stuff in /usr/src ?
[01:07] <defendguin> punkass thats what i did but i gave the launcher an icon of some app i dont use
[01:07] <punkass_> /usr/src/linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS> should not be there
[01:07] <punkass_> yeah that should work
[01:09] <swoon> punkass_ yeah rm the files should work?
[01:09] <myk> does anyone have ACPI suspend working at all?
[01:11] <punkass_> swoon: yes or to be safe you could do     cp /usr/src/linux-xxxx    /usr/src/linux-xxxxOLD
[01:13] <liran_> I got free space that isn`t work as  partition ,how can i add it to my partition that is working ?
[01:15] <liran_> any one?
[01:16] <swoon> punkass_  I just did a: apt-cache search linux-source and only returned linux-patch-debian-<IP_ADDRESS> and linux-source-<IP_ADDRESS> linux kernel source for version <IP_ADDRESS> with debian patches,  uname -r though gives me <IP_ADDRESS>-2-amd64-generic
[01:16] <swoon> ? what do I need to get for my kernel?
[01:17] <punkass_> swoon: you have a non ubuntu kernel?
[01:17] <swoon> punkass_ not that I know of? I mean I installed from ubuntu cd, and updated of the net...
[01:18] <punkass_> hmmm i just did an update an i still have the <IP_ADDRESS> kernel
[01:18] <Phr0stByte> swoon: you updated with Debian sources in your /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:18] <punkass_> doh
[01:19] <punkass_> Phr0stByte: what do u code in?
[01:19] <Phr0stByte> C++
[01:19] <swoon> oh I think I apt-update or whatever with Debian sources, but that doesnt actually update everything does it?
[01:19] <punkass_> ah k..just had a python question :)
[01:19] <swoon> help?
[01:20] <Phr0stByte> I'm doing a game with the SDL libraries
[01:20] <punkass_> cool
[01:20] <swoon> please help me, Im dying here...
[01:21] <Phr0stByte> punkass_: http://www.scapegoatsoftware.com/img/gostop-menu-1.jpg
[01:21] <swoon> do I need to reinstall ubuntu or something insane like that?
[01:22] <mg> just tried to install ubuntu on an lvm partition (so i can combine disks later) but the installer complains about using lvm for root and boot ...
[01:22] <swoon> well brb,
[01:23] <mg> if i can't put root on lvm does that mean i need partitions for everything else, i.e. /usr, /var, /home, /tmp etc?
[01:24] <evilmegaman> hello
[01:24] <evilmegaman> Can anyone help with the cd rom drive not being recognized?
[01:25] <swoon> hrmm Phr0stByte  do I need to reinstall ubuntu? Im trying to get the proper source, headers whatever to compile amd 64 nvidia with the amd64 nvidia installer...
[01:26] <jsubl2> swoon  apt-cache search linux-headers
[01:26] <defendguin> punkass i think this little icon looks pretty slick
[01:27] <defendguin> one or two more adjustments
[01:27] <swoon> jsubl2: uname -r returns: <IP_ADDRESS>-2-amd-64-generic, and I have linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>-3-amd64-generic in /usr/src
[01:27] <swoon> is that all I need?
[01:28] <swoon> I need the kernel source rirght?
[01:29] <swoon> jsubl2: ?
[01:29] <swoon> ...
[01:29] <cog> defendguin, i was racing you, but mine looks like an advertisment for karaeoke.
[01:30] <goatboy> swoon: no, you don't.
[01:30] <goatboy> swoon: just the headers.
[01:30] <defendguin> lol
[01:30] <defendguin> mine is a little red ball with some circles around it
[01:30] <swoon> goatboy: well when I try to use the installer to compile with only the headers I get this error: unable to find the kernel source tree for the current running kernel
[01:31] <merriam> evilmegaman: how is it connected?  just ata to the motherboard?
[01:31] <cog> mine was a ball on a stick with some half circles.
[01:31] <mdz> swoon: make sure you have the same version installed as your kernel
[01:31] <defendguin> maybe instead of circles i could use crescent circles
[01:31] <goatboy> wait, you installed headers for linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>-3-amd64-generic and you're running <IP_ADDRESS>-2-amd-64-generic?
[01:31] <mdz> swoon: ah, you already said you didn't
[01:31] <mdz> swoon: sudo apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r`
[01:32] <swoon> goatboy I tried that
[01:32] <mdz> swoon: you could also wait until monday, when Mithrandir has said he will make this work out of the box
[01:33] <swoon> mdz, then I dont have X until monday
[01:33] <swoon> hang on
[01:33] <mdz> swoon: if you want to do it the hard way, I gave you the command you need to run
[01:34] <defendguin> hmmm
[01:35] <swoon_> yah mdz, goatboy, with apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -f` I get: Couldnt find package linux-headers-<IP_ADDRESS>-2-amd64-generic
[01:35] <mdz> swoon_: apt-get install linux-amd64-generic to get the latest kernel
[01:35] <mdz> swoon_: then reboot
[01:35] <mdz> swoon_: then try again
[01:35] <mdz> the kernel you're running no longer exists; it's old
[01:36] <swoon_> ok let me try, I have disconnect here real quick
[01:41] <defendguin> cog, punkass_  my crappy artwork http://www.cs.uno.edu/~jsunseri/ScreenShots/pyfi.png
[01:42] <defendguin> it could be a lot better  but thats what i seem to be going after
[01:45] <booger> I got k3b up and running but now it burns, pauses, then burns which makes creating a cd take too long
[01:45] <booger> Anyone else running into this?
[01:46] <cog> defendguin, punkass_ my crappy artwork http://graeme.is-a-geek.org/wifi.png
[01:47] <defendguin> hmmm
[01:47] <defendguin> yes
[01:47] <defendguin> color is good
[01:47] <booger> I had the same problem in Gentoo
[01:47] <defendguin> booger, never had that problem
[01:47] <booger> what fixed it was I had to diable a chipset within kernel 2.6
[01:47] <hazmat> how does one source compile a package and its depedencies with apt?
[01:48] <housetier> hazmat, apt-get --help :D
[01:48] <mdz> hazmat: google apt howto
[01:48] <booger> I believe it was a generic ide driver was enabled by default
[01:48] <sil^> Is there a working net install for Ubuntu?
[01:49] <mdz> booger: add the specific chipset module to /etc/modules ahead of ide-generic
[01:49] <mdz> sil^: yes
[01:49] <toyo_school> hello all
[01:49] <booger> damn, good idea mdz
[01:49] <booger> I'll try it
[01:50] <sil^> mdz: Cool (I was worried I'd have to back-construct one from d-i.) Kamion mentioned it today, but I'm not having a lot of luck finding it: where should I be looking?
[01:53] <NoStress> hi
[01:53] <hazmat> mdz, its not clear from the howto (thanks for the tip) if i'm installing a suite of software from source (no debs for my platform) if i have to manually build each one in order of deps.. ie. if apt-get build-dep  is intelligent enough to apt-get -b source of the dependencies and install them
[01:53] <evilmegaman> can I install ubuntu with the live cd?
[01:53] <hazmat> one way to find out i guess
[01:53] <booger> mdz, I was going to mock compile my kernel but theres nothing in /usr/src??
[01:53] <mdz> sil^: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[01:53] <booger> I need a list of all modules, I have a via chipset
[01:54] <booger> I can't remember the exact mod name
[01:54] <mdz> hazmat: you'll need to do them one at a time
[01:54] <mdz> booger: via82cxxx
[01:54] <slarti> mdz: why is there a /usr/src/rpm in warty?
[01:54] <booger> beautiful
[01:54] <mdz> slarti: LSB
[01:54] <slarti> mdz: ?
[01:55] <mdz> slarti: http://www.google.com/search?q=lsb
[01:55] <evilmegaman> can I install ubuntu from the live cd?
[01:55] <mdz> evilmegaman: no, not as such
[01:55] <evilmegaman> :(
[01:56] <mdz> I never cease to be flattered by the high expectations placed on such a young distribution :-)
[01:56] <evilmegaman> Why won't warty work with my cdrom drive but freebsd fedora and gentoo do?
[01:56] <NoStress> i've just try ubuntu, but it didn't detect 1 of my 2 netcard, so i add the module manualy and config it with ifconfig, but...
[01:57] <evilmegaman> oh knoppix works too
[01:57] <NoStress> i've an error while loading the networkconfig tool
[01:57] <evilmegaman> but mandrake gets the same problem
[01:57] <NoStress> it can't load my config and close
[01:58] <NoStress> how can i fix the config ?
[01:58] <mdz> evilmegaman: impossible to say without a description of the problem
[01:58] <evilmegaman> oh
[01:58] <mdz> NoStress: if it is a PCI card, please file a bug saying which module you loaded and providing the output of "lspci" and "lspci -n" and we'll arrange for it to be autodetected
[01:59] <evilmegaman> I get an error saying no cdrom drive found or similar to that when in the install cd
[01:59] <mdz> evilmegaman: are you sure the CD was burned without errors?
[02:00] <evilmegaman> I think so..
[02:00] <evilmegaman> how would I check?
[02:00] <NoStress> mdz: i'll do it, can you help me on fixing the config of the ubuntu netconf tool?
[02:01] <mdz> NoStress: I can't, sorry
[02:01] <cog> defendguin, punkass_ more more more crappy artwork http://graeme.is-a-geek.org/pyfi.png
[02:02] <cog> methinks this is a good theme for the whole thing though.
[02:02] <cog> it needs a better python, but the mind control rays are the best.
[02:03] <defendguin> eeeeek
[02:03] <defendguin> eeeek
[02:03] <defendguin> are you smoking crack?
[02:03] <cog> what! it's brilliant!
[02:04] <GOwin> has anyone tried egroupware on ubuntu?
[02:04] <cog> first i was all, lets make a wifi python! and then once i got the crescents around it... it was just a matter of time untill it started controlling peoples minds.
[02:05] <defendguin> cog, the language that it was coded in shouldnt matter
[02:05] <defendguin> hold on ill brb something wrong with xchat
[02:07] <defendguin> haha
[02:07] <defendguin> i used the wifi scanner and i found another network that im on
[02:07] <defendguin> must be nextdoor
[02:07] <defendguin> lol
[02:08] <sil^> mdz: cheers for the pointer to the net install stuff.
[02:09] <defendguin> at least i think it isnt my network
[02:10] <defendguin> :( nope i guess not
[02:12] <defendguin> i wonder why my router would be broadcasting 2 different essids
[02:12] <cog> on the idea of the mind-control python.. the thing is called pyfi. after all.
[02:12] <cog> but i concede the point.
[02:12] <cog> its better to have it represent what it does rather than how it does it.
[02:13] <cog> its not going to stop me from drawing these suckers now that i'm on a roll though.
[02:14] <defendguin> lol
[02:14] <Phr0stByte> cog: you got a drawing tablet?
[02:14] <defendguin> it has to be something that will look good even when it is small
[02:16] <cog> Phr0stByte, nope, got a mouse.
[02:17] <cog> defendguin, you and your stinking rUles! i want icons that only look good underwater!
[02:17] <cog> um..
[02:17] <AndyFitz> someone mentioned icons ?
[02:17] <AndyFitz> i sensed it
[02:18] <cog> wificons actually.
[02:18] <cog> and/or pycons
[02:18] <Phr0stByte> cog: damn - I got a Wacom drawing tablet that I have been dying to get working...
[02:18] <Phr0stByte> cog: no success for over a month
[02:18] <defendguin> AndyFitz, nothing too interesting
[02:18] <defendguin> just drawing icons for pyfi
[02:18] <cog> sacrafice chickens not yourself, there's no point if you're not there to enjoy it.
[02:19] <AndyFitz> :) just convenient timing to enter chat
[02:19] <defendguin> lol
[02:19] <defendguin> AndyFitz, my attempts http://www.cs.uno.edu/~jsunseri/ScreenShots/pyfi.png
[02:19] <LinuxJones> what's pyfi ?
[02:20] <AndyFitz> big props for using SVG defendguin :)
[02:21] <defendguin> AndyFitz, you know i only use svg
[02:21] <defendguin> LinuxJones, a little wireless config tool punkass made
[02:22] <AndyFitz> and you're a better person for it defendguin :) http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/inkscape.png    http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/aboutwip.svg
[02:22] <AndyFitz> been mucking about with ideas for the inkscape .40 about screen
[02:22] <cog> holy shi
[02:22] <cog> that's ummm awesome.
[02:23] <defendguin> blah blah blah anyone can do that
[02:23] <AndyFitz> blanko de negro  - when colours are too good for you
[02:25] <cog> whatever defendguin, i like it.
[02:25] <Phr0stByte> Any1 here have a Wacom drawing tablet?
[02:26] <AndyFitz> i have a 17" intuous  with a canvass mouse and no pen... i lost it at my old workplace
[02:27] <Phr0stByte> AndyFitz: I have a Graphire3 (USB) I cant get working....
[02:27] <Phr0stByte> (in LInux)
[02:28] <AndyFitz> i havent used my tablet since using my pen 2 years ago. I never set it up it on linux
[02:28] <Phr0stByte> AndyFitz: If you can help me, I'll get you the pen from work
[02:28] <Phr0stByte> damn
[02:28] <AndyFitz> damn straight damn
[02:28] <AndyFitz> msg jimmac on irc.freenode ;)
[02:29] <Phr0stByte> ?
[02:30] <AndyFitz> he uses his tablet with the gimp
[02:30] <AndyFitz> http://susefaq.sourceforge.net/howto/graphire.html
[02:31] <AndyFitz> this tutorial will help alot
[02:32] <AndyFitz> its for Suse but i dont think it mentions anything suse specific
[02:32] <AndyFitz> however there are other tutorial links at the bottom for setting up your graphire
[02:33] <AndyFitz> http://gug.sunsite.dk/tutorials/ayoros1/ - would be good
[02:34] <AndyFitz> its short and sweet
[02:34] <AndyFitz> oh but its 2.4 kernel related :-/
[02:39] <slarti> i'm building a kernel... what's the difference between fakeroot and sudo?
[02:42] <cujosuperfly> are mouse gestures installed by default?
[02:42] <cujosuperfly> with firefox
[02:42] <AndyFitz> cujosuperfly: nope
[02:43] <jdub> slarti: using sudo (to root) means you're actually building it as root, fakeroot means you're not.
[02:43] <jdub> slarti: fakeroot is waaaay preferable.
[02:43] <tseng> fakeroot rocks.
[02:44] <cujosuperfly> hmm.  i just installed ubuntu the other day and whenever i'm using firefox i get some weird behavior when i move my pointer.  i have a laptop, so maybe its a touchpad thing.
[02:44] <jdub> cujosuperfly: that'd be due to the synaptic touchpad defaults
[02:44] <cujosuperfly> my guess is that somehow tapping the touchpad is mapped to the "3rd" mouse button
[02:44] <cujosuperfly> jdub - how can i change that
[02:44] <jdub> what happens if you type in 'synclient -l'?
[02:45] <swoon_> mdz still there?
[02:45] <slarti> jdub: why is fakeroot preferable?
[02:45] <nuge> does fakeroot work for you guys when doing a make-kpkg?
[02:45] <cujosuperfly> "Can't access shared memory area. SHMConfig disabled?"
[02:45] <jdub> slarti: because it means you're not building stuff as root (which is dangerous)
[02:46] <jdub> cujosuperfly: ahr
[02:46] <jdub> cujosuperfly: ok, so, in your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file
[02:46] <cujosuperfly> yeah
[02:46] <jdub> under the inputdevice section for your touchpad
[02:46] <jdub> add the following line:
[02:46] <jdub>         Option          "SHMConfig"             "true"
[02:46] <slarti> jdub: dangerous in what way?  is it only dangerous during the build process or does it somehow (?) make the program being built more dangerous?
[02:47] <jdub> slarti: during the build process -> it could do anything
[02:47] <jdub> ie. someone could put rm -rf /dev in their makefile
[02:47] <jdub> or worse
[02:48] <cujosuperfly> i'm guessing i need to restart x now
[02:48] <cujosuperfly> bbl
[02:49] <slarti> jdub: yeah, i see what you mean.  i don't yet understand how fakeroot gets around this, but i can figure that out later.  i'm building a kernel for a newly installed ubuntu system, so i'm not worried about losing anything.
[02:49] <swoon_> damn it Im trying to install this damn nvidia driver I get this error: The kernel header file '/lib/modules/<IP_ADDRESS>-1-amd64-generic/build/include/linux/kernel.h' does not exist. the most likley reason for this is that the kernel source path '/lib/modules/2.blah-generic/build' is incorrect... help please?
[02:50] <slarti> swoon_: when do you get that error?
[02:51] <swoon_> slarti when the installer tries to compile the driver...
[02:52] <jdub> slarti: because a) you're building as a user, not root and b) fakeroot tricks everything running underneath it that root-requiring operations have succeeded
[02:52] <cujosuperfly> ok jdub, synclient -l gives me stuff.  what am i looking for?
[02:52] <jdub> swoon_: why aren't you installing the pre-built version?
[02:52] <jdub> cujosuperfly: well, i'm not sure which behaviour is biting you, but you can play with all of those now
[02:52] <cujosuperfly> awesome
[02:52] <tseng> Lathiat: any luck with dashboard?
[02:52] <cujosuperfly> thanks
[02:52] <swoon_> jdub: because there isnt one supposidly for the amd 64
[02:53] <jdub> i do this in my session:
[02:53] <jdub> synclient TapButton1=0 TapButton2=0 TapButton3=0 UpDownScrolling=0
[02:53] <jdub> although i still get stupid back-button behaviour -> gotta figure that out
[02:53] <jsubl2> so who in here as a amd64
[02:53] <swoon_> obviously someone does (me) ubuntu does make an amd64 version of its distro...
[02:56] <LinuxJones> jdub, why are there no default document templates with Gnome 2.8 ??
[02:58] <cog> LinuxJones, you should make a good set of 'em an propose 'em.
[02:59] <cog> like, lets see, what do we need... html... css... perl script... bash script... resume!... fax cover letter...
[02:59] <jdub> LinuxJones: the templates are all left up to the user
[02:59] <cog> letter of appology for running over dog.
[02:59] <jdub> LinuxJones: if we preseed them, it will become about as useless as windows' New menu item
[03:00] <jdub> LinuxJones: so, no defaults, no templates provided by packages, etc.
[03:01] <LinuxJones> jbub,  ahh
[03:01] <cog> i think there should be at least one to show people where to put 'em.
[03:02] <jdub> ideally, apps will have 'save as template' functions which will plop stuff into ~/Templates
[03:03] <jgeorgeson> has anyone noticed static when listening to internet stations in rhythmbox? i don't hear any when listening to the same streams in xmms
[03:06] <whiprush> booyah, new utopia ipod love is great.
[03:06] <jdub> yo whiprush
[03:06] <whiprush> heya
[03:08] <myk> is anyone here using swsusp2 ?
[03:09] <evilmegaman> still having cd drive problems... no possible fix? is there some sort of driver floppy?
[03:10] <wasabi__> So like, does Ubuntu autodetect hardware and stuff properly?
[03:11] <myk> wasabi__: i haven't had any problems with it
[03:11] <jgeorgeson> wasabi__, it got all of mine (dell inspiron 2600) no problem
[03:11] <AndersAA> it's far from perfect but I haven't had any problems
[03:11] <evilmegaman> me had problem
[03:12] <evilmegaman> It couldn't detect my cd drive. same with mandrake. but not any other distro
[03:12] <evilmegaman> that I have tried
[03:12] <AndersAA> very weird... scsi or something?
[03:12] <jgeorgeson> evilmegaman, is it an lg?
[03:13] <evilmegaman> No
[03:13] <evilmegaman> I dunno
[03:13] <evilmegaman> It's a DW-U18A
[03:13] <evilmegaman> Sony
[03:13] <evilmegaman> But it should work
[03:14] <jgeorgeson> there was an LG that had a bad firmware, such that some distributions (specifically mandrake, i think 10) wold break it
[03:15] <Phr0stByte> jgeorgeson: that was fixed a long time ago
[03:15] <jgeorgeson> Phr0stByte, yeah, just a thought
[03:15] <evilmegaman> Hmmm
[03:19] <grue_> ?
[03:20] <grue_> help
[03:20] <jgeorgeson> help what?
[03:20] <grue_> gah
[03:20] <grue_> I've not been on IRC for a long time
[03:20] <grue_> thought there was some user settings before I actually started talking to people
[03:24] <AndersAA> any way to background execute /etc/init.d/networking?
[03:25] <AndersAA> I have wireless network (almost always out of range) and normal networking on my laptop, which I happen to reboot quite often, cuz the battery is broke ;)
[03:29] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, what do you mean by background networking?
[03:29] <AndersAA> jgeorgeson: background execution of the script, so you dont need to wait for the dhcp to login.
[03:30] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, look at /etc/network/interfaces. if you take "auto" out of each one they won't try to get a lease. You can also undo the setting with Computer->System Configuration->Networking in gnome
[03:31] <AndersAA> yeah... I suppose I could make it on login or something, setup sudo to allow execution without a password of that command
[03:31] <cog> oy, punkass_ defendguin i made more. czech 'em out. i only like the top one.
[03:31] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, I miss the RH option to allow users to bring interfaces up or down
[03:32] <AndersAA> simple enough to do with sudo, but it'd be nice to have a gui tool for it
[03:32] <AndersAA> maybe the wireless monitor could do that...
[03:32] <AndersAA> hmm, I could just move stuff around to get gdm to load before networking I suppose
[03:32] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, the applet doesn't at the moment, that I know of. But you can bring interfaces up/down with the config tool I mentioned
[03:32] <swoon_> screw, can anyone help me, I cant get into X because when I do log in the screen gets all messed up  can see something there but its all lined up... Im pretty sure that in the past all I did was install the new nvidia driver but... I havent been able to do that successfully using ubuntu amd64... \
[03:33] <cog> oy, cog! um url = http://graeme.is-a-geek.org/pyfi2.png
[03:33] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, there is that.  have both interfaces set to not come up on boot. plugging in the pcmcia wifi nic brings it up without me doing anything
[03:33] <AndersAA> jgeorgeson: ... of course, that'd work great, it'll auto detect that as a "cable been plugged in" and auto run dhcp
[03:34] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, yeah. the built in ethernet nic doesn't do that, though. i have to bring it up manually
[03:34] <sri> okay
[03:35] <AndersAA> or plug the cable in and out
[03:35] <sri> so.. I'm installing ubuntu in a corporate network
[03:35] <sri> and I'm having some trouble
[03:35] <AndersAA> most of the time that wont be in on my box anyway
[03:35] <sri> 1) I think there should be an option to use an http proxy during install.
[03:35] <sri> 2) I think ypbind is broken
[03:35] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, plugging the cable in/out doesn't register for me on the built-in nic, does it work for you?
[03:36] <sri> anybody have any issues with ypbind?
[03:36] <whiprush> sri: you get your ubuntu problems fixed I take it?
[03:36] <AndersAA> jgeorgeson: dunno, I'll test in a sec
[03:36] <AndersAA> ifplugd will detect that on most boxes I've tried it on though
[03:36] <AndersAA> (depending on network card module)
[03:37] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, neat, I'll have to lok at that package
[03:37] <sri> whiprush: yeah..trying to install this ubuntu at owrk.
[03:37] <sri> whiprush: but I don't think it'll work well in a corp network
[03:37] <sri> and if NIS doesn't work I'm screwed completely
[03:37] <whiprush> hmm
[03:37] <whiprush> I have nis at work
[03:37] <whiprush> works for me.
[03:37] <sri> dunno whats going wtih min ethen
[03:38] <whiprush> hrm.
[03:38] <sri> ypbind -debug -broadcast gives me a response from  a server but it just sets there saying "pinging all servers"
[03:38] <AndersAA> argh, wont work on my wireless device, I need it to run wpa_supplicant first :/
[03:38] <sri> also, since you have no root account, apt-get needs a user, that I don't hav ein my corporate passwd file
[03:38] <whiprush> my coworker is really nis smart. I'll find you tomorrow and link you up.
[03:38] <sri> whiprush: well, I think it's tihs particular version of ypbind..
[03:39] <sri> whiprush: since it works fine on my debian box
[03:39] <whiprush> oh I see
[03:39] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, I'm not familiar with it, but /etc/network has some framework for pre-ifup scripts
[03:39] <sri> whiprush: so I think it's ubuntu's ypbind thats broken in particular
[03:39] <whiprush> you could always replace it with the debian version. (disclaimer attached)
[03:39] <swoon_> screw, can anyone help me, I cant get into X because when I do log in the screen gets all messed up  can see something there but its all lined up... Im pretty sure that in the past all I did was install the new nvidia driver but... I havent been able to do that successfully using ubuntu amd64... \   anyone??
[03:39] <AndersAA> yeah I noticed
[03:39] <sri> it will probably require a crapload of hacking to get ubuntu to fit into my network.
[03:40] <sri> whiprush: yeah, thas what I'm thinking..
[03:40] <jdub> sri: can you write up a list of issues and post to ubuntu-users?
[03:40] <sri> jdub: sure, I will need to subscribe
[03:40] <jdub> that's a big commitment
[03:40] <sri> jdub: heh
[03:40] <whiprush> rol
[03:40] <jdub> you can send it to me if you don't want to bother ;)
[03:41] <whiprush> omg I have a feel good ubuntu/gnome story for the day.
[03:41] <swoon_> ...
[03:41] <sri> jdub: yeah, being on arch mailing list already puts me over my damn mail quota in two days :/
[03:41] <AndersAA> aww crap, /me 's afk, walking the dog at 3:41am, I gotta start setting alarms or something :p
[03:41] <AndersAA> thanks for your help jgeorgeson :)
[03:42] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, sure, good luck
[03:42] <whiprush> ok, so I started my new job as a network admin at a local uni. A senior prof guy comes down and wants to spend money specifically on a linux lab due to faculty and student demand(!).
[03:42] <whiprush> so he asks me to think aloud. What we should use, etc. etc.
[03:42] <whiprush> So I mention Ubuntu and whatnot, throw out NX as an option
[03:43] <whiprush> turns out he's from South Africa.
[03:43] <whiprush> so I explain the whole thing
[03:43] <whiprush> booyah, 90 new GNOME desktops in the spring.
[03:43] <whiprush> beat that sri.
[03:43] <jdub> haha :-)
[03:44] <jdub> "mark shuttleworth?! SIGN ME UP!"
[03:44] <whiprush> + 90 sun thin clients from CDE to JDS.
[03:44] <jkg> I have one word for people lacking the mail quota to read ubuntu-users: gmail. :)
[03:44] <whiprush> I'm no extramedura, but it works.
[03:44] <sri> obviously I cannot compete :)
[03:45] <clee> jkg: heh. yes. have you noticed that half of the ubuntu users list is subscribed from gmail?
[03:45] <clee> myself included
[03:46] <jdub> it's not half
[03:46] <jdub> but there are quite a few :)
[03:46] <LinuxJones> night all !!
[03:47] <clee> jdub: heh. so have you been following the network-profile-switching stuff that spawned from daniels' "Lessons from XP" message?
[03:49] <jdub> clee: (about 20% on -users are gmail)
[03:49] <jdub> yeah
[03:49] <jdub> we're almost certainly going for NetworkManager for hoary
[03:49] <clee> jdub: really? wow, I would've thought it to be more...
[03:49] <clee> Nice.
[03:50] <clee> We're going to ship NetworkManager in FC3
[03:50] <clee> but it's not going to be enabled by default
[03:50] <jdub> ahr
[03:50] <jdub> didn't think so ;)
[03:50] <jsubl2> so.. somebody have a gmail invite for me
[03:50] <clee> there are still a few bugs to work out, trust me
[03:50] <clee> jdub: do you know if anybody has any packages of it for warty though?
[03:50] <whiprush> jsubl2: msg me your name and address
[03:51] <paxetil> ubuntu uses .deb packages ?
[03:51] <jkg> paxetil: yep
[03:51] <jsubl2> oops
[03:51] <paxetil> and apt-get ?
[03:52] <jgeorgeson> what does NetworkManager add?
[03:52] <jkg> yeah. and synaptic, apparently, though I've not tried it yet.
[03:52] <paxetil> ok
[03:53] <clee> jgeorgeson: profiles for network settings
[03:53] <clee> jgeorgeson: easy to switch
[03:53] <clee> jgeorgeson: and it's all sexified with the latest DBUS tech
[03:53] <burner_> how do you guys recommend setting samba shares?
[03:53] <jdub> clee: thom is working on some
[03:53] <clee> fire.
[03:53] <clee> jdub: yeah, but I don't see a link to a repository. :)
[03:53] <burner_> is there a gui that I can do this with?  I tried to right click share, but there's no share option
[03:53] <jkg> network profiles as in for (say) a laptop that you regularly move between multiple networks or something? that sounds nifty.
[03:53] <jdub> clee: working, as in not-finished :)
[03:54] <clee> jdub: how about that epittance stuff from dobey? :)
[03:54] <jdub> clee: i am, um, waiting to see what alex produces. ahem.
[03:54] <jgeorgeson> clee, how does the profile support differ from what's currently supported?
[03:54] <clee> jdub: heh.
[03:54] <whiprush> burner_: there's no real easy way to publish shares like that yet.
[03:54] <clee> jgeorgeson: ... how do you currently switch SSID's in warty?
[03:54] <burner_> yet?  gnome 2.10?  or just sometime
[03:54] <jdub> jgeorgeson: it's largely automated, utopia-ised, user policy based, etc.
[03:54] <clee> jgeorgeson: or switch from wifi to wired?
[03:55] <burner_> i'm thinking I'll just have to do smbpasswd and edit smb.conf
[03:56] <jgeorgeson> clee, usually command line (ifdown; ifup; iwconfig, etc)
[03:56] <whiprush> burner_: dunno.
[03:56] <burner_> cool... just curious
[03:56] <whiprush> there was a zeroconf one I tried the otherday. epittance, but I couldn't get it to work.
[03:56] <clee> jgeorgeson: This will allow you to configure each "place" graphically, and switch between them easily with a single dropdown
[03:56] <jgeorgeson> burner_, there is a tool called swat, you use your web browser
[03:56] <clee> jgeorgeson: One of my coworkers is working on it. :)
[03:57] <jgeorgeson> clee, cool
[03:57] <burner_> no, i can edit it... it's ok... just curious if there was a nautilus integration
[03:57] <burner_> i can always use konqueror too ;)
[03:57] <clee> burner_: heh.
[03:57] <jgeorgeson> burner_, would be nice. but even browsing smb shares with nautilus, i've never seen an app that can open files directly
[03:58] <burner_> supposedly gnomevfs integration will be had in beep-media-player which should allow playing over smb shares without mounting
[03:58] <burner_> you can always mount the share... then go from there
[04:00] <uxi9000> simply question i have.  I increase the size of the panel to HUMONGOUS and cant find the button to resize/move it?
[04:01] <MGS> hi all
[04:01] <bur[n] er> hi
[04:01] <uxi9000> howdy
[04:01] <muldy> the distro is very good :)
[04:01] <muldy> bye
[04:02] <bur[n] er> bye
[04:02] <MGS> hehe im about to install ubuntu for the first time (my first linux install also)
[04:02] <whiprush> MGS: excellent.
[04:02] <bur[n] er> MGS, it's pretty easy as far as linux goes
[04:02] <MGS> okay
[04:02] <jkg> dammit, I wish ubuntu had been around when I did my first linux install :)
[04:02] <MGS> i have one question though
[04:02] <MGS> when i install my internet
[04:02] <MGS> (pppoe)
[04:03] <MGS> is it any harder then with windows
[04:03] <bur[n] er> ooh.... pppoe... bleh
[04:03] <MGS> its verizon dsl
[04:03] <MGS> oh
[04:03] <MGS> hmmm
[04:03] <MGS> i was thinking of hooking up my router
[04:03] <bur[n] er> don't you have an external modem?
[04:03] <MGS> yes
[04:04] <MGS> i do
[04:04] <bur[n] er> then no big deal :)
[04:04] <MGS> okay
[04:04] <MGS> cool
[04:04] <bur[n] er> a router is always good for security
[04:04] <MGS> yeah
[04:04] <yyc747> does ubuntu use lilo or grub by default?  also, if it doesn't use grub by default, how much extra work is involved in setting it up?
[04:04] <uxi9000> grub
[04:04] <yyc747> sweet
[04:05] <MGS> grub? lilo?
[04:05] <MGS> sorry im a noob
[04:05] <yyc747> bootloader
[04:05] <MGS> ooh
[04:05] <bur[n] er> grub is good stuff
[04:05] <MGS> ok
[04:05] <yyc747> grub is much better imo
[04:05] <MGS> ok
[04:05] <yyc747> I think there is even a dos version now
[04:06] <yyc747> my friend used it to boot a knoppix iso before he was ready to take the linux plunge
[04:06] <tjk> is there any easy way of "upgrading" from debian, or do I have to go with the "wipe everything" approach?
[04:06] <MGS> i used phlak (i guess that was my first linux experience)
[04:06] <MGS> which is based off knoppix
[04:06] <uxi9000> where do i config panel properties, ive accidentally made the thing too damn big
[04:07] <yyc747> so, yeah, I'm giving ubuntu a shot.  the only thing I don't like so far is the use of xfree86, but that will be changed in the next release
[04:07] <MGS> i have no idea what xfree86 is, but okay
[04:07] <whiprush> heh
[04:07] <uxi9000> hey yyc747 what are you getting from x.org that you like is it the shit??
[04:07] <whiprush> uxi9000: does right clicking on the panel show the menu?
[04:07] <bur[n] er> xorg isn't in debian yet... they're waiting to see if it'll be monolithic or modular
[04:08] <yyc747> xfree86 (and it's new, better fork, xorg) is what allows graphics to be displayed essentially
[04:08] <uxi9000> whiprush, it only gives me the icon properties...
[04:08] <yyc747> uxi9000: I like the license and the faster pace of development.  plus, at this point, even if xfree86 were technically superior, i would switch because all of the developers have jumped ship to x.org
[04:08] <whiprush> hmmm, maybe you have a launcher on that spot or something
[04:08] <jgeorgeson> uxi9000, don't click on an icon
[04:08] <uxi9000> is there a cli command to bring up the config
[04:09] <whiprush> uxi9000: right click on an empty spot on the panel
[04:09] <dablitz> how do i fix "MP-BIOS BUG: 8254 timer not connected to IO_APIC
[04:09] <uxi9000> thats the problem its so big there doesnt seem to be an empty spot...
[04:10] <whiprush> aha
[04:10] <whiprush> launch gconf editor.
[04:10] <dablitz> I am trying to setup my laptop, and i get this error first
[04:10] <whiprush> the go to apps, panel, profiles.
[04:10] <yyc747> so far, my favorite distro is gentoo (and I don't think that will change) but I'm looking for something that is a bit easier and faster for times when I don't want all of the advanced config gentoo has to offer
[04:10] <goatboy> uxi9000: click on an applet and hit ctrl-f10
[04:11] <yyc747> I'm looking for a happy medium between knoppix and pure debian, preferrably with the documentation of gentoo
[04:11] <yyc747> and so far I like what I see
[04:11] <MGS> is there any way to setup a login screen on ubuntu?
[04:11] <MGS> i dont have it installed
[04:11] <MGS> im just wondering
[04:11] <joem> it uses gdm by default
[04:11] <MGS> gdm?
[04:11] <tjk> a login screen
[04:11] <MGS> oooh okay
[04:11] <MGS> awesome
[04:12] <whiprush> hey goatboy you have the new totem-gstreamer stuff handy?
[04:12] <yyc747> btw, does ubuntu need a net connection to set up a basic system (I mean like X+browser+office)?
[04:12] <goatboy> whiprush: nope, haven't tried it yet.
[04:12] <bur[n] er> yyc747no
[04:12] <whiprush> anyone try it yet?
[04:12] <bur[n] er> yyc747, no rather
[04:13] <yyc747> bur[n] er: that means I can get my friend to install it on his laptop at school
[04:13] <yyc747> he's looking for the next step from knoppix (which, surprisingly, he has had since yesterday)
[04:14] <yyc747> and I'm trying to steer him away from slack, because I know nothing about it
[04:14] <bur[n] er> slack has shitty package management is the only downside
[04:15] <yyc747> bur[n] er: why do you think my favorite distros are debian (-based) and gentoo
[04:15] <jgeorgeson> bur[n] er, sack has package management?
[04:15] <jgeorgeson> j/k
[04:15] <yyc747> bur[n] er: I need package management
[04:15] <bur[n] er> me too... it's why i switched from slack way back when to debian
[04:15] <yyc747> bur[n] er: good package management
[04:16] <yyc747> bur[n] er: or, at the very least, something that can easily remove packages I don't like
[04:16] <uxi9000> ok got gconf open where do i find the panel option in there.
[04:16] <uxi9000> this looks a lot like the registry...
[04:16] <bur[n] er> just wish i knew how to make .debs
[04:16] <yyc747> btw, are there many themes for gnome included?  the screens I've seen look ugly imo
[04:17] <bur[n] er> it's not an easy thing to do when you're not compiling from source... when it's just python scripts
[04:17] <yyc747> bur[n] er: hmm... I've never really looked at how to do that
[04:17] <bur[n] er> yyc747, there's a few
[04:17] <Chriffer> yyc747, I think its the normal gnome themes + the color scheme ubuntu uses
[04:17] <whiprush> uxi9000: clicking on the panel and hitting ctrl-f10 didn't bring the menu up?
[04:17] <yyc747> bur[n] er: because I'm starting to like KDE more and more
[04:18] <joem> bur[n] er, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[04:18] <joem> read up :)
[04:18] <whiprush> yyc747: there's a package, gnome-theme-extras with some more themes
[04:18] <yyc747> whiprush: sounds good
[04:18] <yyc747> whiprush: color schemes also?
[04:18] <yyc747> (in KDE the two are separate)
[04:18] <whiprush> don't know what you mean by color schemes
[04:18] <whiprush> oh oh
[04:18] <uxi9000> hey whiprush that did it.  big thanks.  I was not doing all 3 at once.  Are you whiprush from ars??
[04:18] <whiprush> no, don't think so.
[04:18] <dablitz> how do i fix "MP-BIOS BUG: 8254 timer not connected to IO_APIC"
[04:18] <bur[n] er> joem, i've gone through them... i can make .debs when I have to compile a program... hen I just have to make a dpkg entry and put some scripts in a certain location... i'm lost
[04:18] <whiprush> uxi9000: heh, goatboy mentioned it a page up. And yes.,
[04:19] <tjk> I take it there isn't any easy way of upgrading from debian to ubuntu?
[04:20] <goatboy> yyc747: in GNOME color schemes are a part of GTK+ themes.
[04:20] <yyc747> I like the versioning scheme... it's shorter than the 2004XXXX type, and more precise than the gentoo 2004.X
[04:20] <yyc747> goatboy: k.  I'll experiment with it
[04:20] <whiprush> tjk: you can, but it's unsupported. ymmv. you get to keep both pieces if it breaks. etc. etc.
[04:20] <yyc747> goatboy: is there a theme reminiscant of OS X?
[04:20] <yyc747> goatboy: I don't mind that
[04:20] <joem> anybody have a good guide for setting up an initrd with chroot
[04:20] <tjk> whiprush, is there a doc on it someplace?
[04:21] <goatboy> yyc747: not included in gnome-themes-extras, I don't think.
[04:21] <goatboy> yyc747: but there are plenty of them out there.
[04:21] <whiprush> tjk: you just snag the /etc/apt/sources.list from ubuntu and then apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade.
[04:21] <whiprush> but don't go reporting odd bugs and whatnot. :)
[04:21] <yyc747> goatboy: whether or not I can apt-get themes doesn't really concern me
[04:21] <phin> heeey
[04:22] <phin> how do i edit the debian menu?
[04:22] <phin> and have it keep the changes
[04:22] <jgeorgeson> whiprush: isn't ubuntu based off of testing? if so, someone with an unstable install would probably be really 'irritated' by downgrading packages
[04:22] <tjk> aha, 'ubuntu sources.list' actually came up with something helpful on google...
[04:23] <whiprush> snapshot of sid from a while back from what I've read.
[04:23] <whiprush> tjk: I've got one, sec.
[04:23] <phin> yo whip
[04:23] <whiprush> wotcha phin
[04:23] <phin> hey you know how to make perm changes to the debian menu?
[04:23] <defendguin> i wish someone would build a netapplet that worked in gnome 2.8 :(
[04:23] <defendguin> does anyone else have problems with irc.gimp.net
[04:23] <defendguin> maybe it would be nice for some applications so support "Make this a Template ..."
 :D
[04:24] <whiprush> woo
[04:24] <tjk> that's okay. My collection is small
[04:24] <jdub> defendguin: nup
[04:24] <whiprush> defendguin: did it mount?
[04:24] <jdub> defendguin: we're going to have t-shirts and so on, not cafepress stuff though.
[04:25] <dablitz> i could really use some help
[04:25] <jdub> jgeorgeson: ubuntu is a branch of sid
[04:25] <Se7h> woo
[04:25] <jdub> jgeorgeson: frozen a while back, so some parts of testing may be newer
[04:25] <whiprush> dablitz: just ask
[04:25] <Se7h> major updates today i see
[04:25] <dablitz> how do i fix "MP-BIOS BUG: 8254 timer not connected to IO_APIC"
[04:25] <jdub> dablitz: you get a new motherboard :)
[04:25] <jdub> dablitz: it shouldn't affect you
[04:26] <Se7h> gnome updates also
[04:26] <dablitz> yes, actually this is a new compaq 2800+ laptop
[04:26] <jdub> dablitz: it's nothing you can actually fix
[04:26] <dablitz> and ontop of that, i can only seem to keep net for about 4 or 5 minutes, and it freezez
[04:27] <whiprush> I demand Ubuntu gag humor tshirts.
[04:27] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, have you looked at this? http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Kernel/2004-03/1467.html
[04:27] <dablitz> i will
[04:27] <whiprush> "mdz, do you even freaking sleep? yeesh." and so forth.
[04:27] <whiprush> "multiverse stole my GPL."
[04:27] <whiprush> etc.
[04:28] <socomm> "Ubuntu ate my hampster."
[04:28] <socomm> `/rimshot'
[04:30] <dablitz> how about not being able to resolv archive.ubuntu.com
[04:31] <atomsk> clear
[04:31] <dablitz> clear?
[04:31] <atomsk> oops sorry :)
[04:31] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, just that host? or not being able to resolve in general?
[04:31] <dablitz> in general, anything
[04:31] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, check /etc/resolv.conf
[04:31] <phin> sweet, my, now former, windows using freind just sat at this laptop and was like "I WANT THIS!"
 That happend once when my audio card came loose.
[04:37] <phin> ya its not a big deal
[04:37] <phin> this connection is temp
[04:37] <phin> my wireless is enroute now :)
[04:38] <phin> got a wireless g router and wireles b card for 71 on ebay
[04:38] <phin> its a wap11 version 3 so its linux ready :)
[04:44] <eldados> any 1 knows if the new amd64 daily fixes the problem with x and nvidia 6800?
[04:45] <{Q}> hi
[04:48] <Jaramin> anyone here knows how to capture the output of the entire boot process?
[04:48] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: you'll find it in /var/log/messages
[04:49] <LeeColleton> Note that this is continuious, even through a restart
[04:49] <ix> dmesg | less
[04:49] <dablitz> what can i put in my /etc/resolf.conf besides "nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>"
[04:49] <phin> other name servers
[04:49] <phin> like i put in the ones for all the servers i do hosting at
[04:49] <phin> so when i put a domain over it works right away for me
[04:50] <dablitz> phin like my isp's primay and secondary dns?
[04:50] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: really? thanks! I'm rather new at linux, but in other distros there used to be a console windows running in the background that you could access with the F keys.
[04:50] <phin> well, more then likely your local dns server already uses em
[04:50] <phin> but yes you could if you want
[04:51] <phin> anyway.  anyone know how to make perminent changes to the default menu?
[04:53] <ranman> do you mean to add applications to it, and they stay even though you have uninstalled the application?
[04:54] <socomm> Jaramin, run `dmesg | less'
[04:55] <ranman> try putting "applications:" into the nautilus location bar, there you can edit the menu...
[04:55] <phin> ranman: i dont run nautilus
[04:55] <phin> i run fluxbox
[04:55] <phin> there is a default debian menu
[04:56] <phin> that auto updates my fluxbox menu
[04:56] <moyogo> hi, how do i quickly create a share with samba
[04:56] <socomm> phin, you gotta edit your config files.
[04:56] <socomm> phin, actually hold on.
[04:56] <phin> heh
[04:56] <phin> i was gonna say
[04:56] <phin> thats pretty, um...
[04:56] <phin> hehe
[04:57] <socomm> http://devaux.fabien.free.fr/flux/
[04:57] <socomm> Try that.
[04:58] <socomm> phin, That should do it for you.
[04:58] <phin> naw
[04:58] <phin> thats not it
[04:58] <phin> see, there is a default debian menu
[04:58] <phin> that intergrates automaticly with the fluxbox menu
[04:59] <phin> so if i make changes to the flux menu, it just regenerates back over it
[04:59] <socomm> phin, so if you change it that will write over it?
[04:59] <phin> i'll search good, figured i'd ask here first ;)
[04:59] <phin> yes sirr
[05:00] <socomm> Actually it should be placed somewhere in /etc or /usr/share
[05:00] <phin> ya ive looked
[05:00] <phin> no luck
[05:00] <phin> there is a core debian menu
[05:00] <socomm> fluxbox will search there first, before searching in your home dir.
[05:00] <phin> that is the master
[05:00] <phin> and what this program does
[05:00] <phin> is it runs a program called update-menus
[05:00] <phin> or something
[05:00] <phin> everytime you install something
[05:00] <phin> this in return generates a new fluxbox menu
[05:01] <phin> so its all nice and up to date
[05:01] <phin> now thats great and all, i like it
[05:01] <phin> but i need some control over it :)
[05:01] <atomsk> say I'm in a terminal...any way to open a Gnome folder window in the current folder?
[05:01] <ranman> phin: sorry for the late response... lag... blah... You will find your answer in /var/lib/menu. This is the place that Debian builds the menu from.. plenty of examples..
[05:01] <hazmat> i'm trying to install the mono packages from http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs, i'm on a different architecture though and want to build from source, but apt refuses to download the source from that repo.. any ideas why?
[05:01] <hazmat> it always goes to the ones in universe
[05:02] <tseng> because i didnt upload sources for most of the packages?
[05:02] <socomm> phin, use the 'locate' command to find the global config.
[05:02] <tseng> since i didnt change them from debian unstable
[05:02] <phin> there isnt a menu
[05:02] <phin> but there is a menu-xdg
[05:02] <phin> in /var/lib
[05:02] <socomm> phin, try backing that up something like 'mv menu-xdg menu-xdg.bak'
[05:02] <hazmat> tseng, but there are sources for some of them
[05:03] <tseng> what are you talking about
[05:03] <tseng> there are not.
[05:03] <hazmat> oh.. i just assumed the files without i386 in them were source
[05:03] <hazmat> i'm a debian newb
[05:03] <tseng> i only have sources for tomboy and monodevelop
[05:04] <phin> ok so after i change, what do i do to update?
[05:05] <hazmat> tseng, so to make packages, you added debian unstable to your sources, did apt-get source for all of the packages, and built and installed each one in the proper depedency order?
[05:05] <tseng> yes
[05:05] <tseng> but you need mono installed from binary first
[05:05] <tseng> or to bootstrap it in chroot
[05:05] <yyc747> night everyone... I'll probably do my ubuntu install tomorrow
[05:05] <dablitz> how do i renew my ip address with ubuntu
[05:06] <eldados> any 1 knows if the new amd64 daily fixes the problem with x and nvidia 6800?
[05:06] <yyc747> just out of curiosity, I think I'll ask an ubuntu question in #debian and see what happens.  The knoppix question I asked this morning produced entertaining results
[05:07] <tseng> dont be a troll.
[05:07] <yyc747> me?
[05:07] <ranman> phin: update-menus runs from /var/lib/menu and puts the menu in /var/lib/$DM/debian....
[05:07] <ranman> if you edit the menu at /var/lib/$DM/debian then it will be overwritten every time that update-menus is run...
[05:07] <tseng> yyc747: yes.
[05:07] <ranman> if you add another file to /var/lib/menu then run update menus as root, or user..
[05:07] <yyc747> yes, I suppose that was a troll
[05:07] <hazmat> tseng, lost me there, why would you need mono installed to get the mono packages to compile.. its just c source. ?
[05:07] <yyc747> but it really does reflect my feelings
[05:07] <eldados> yyc747, if you really want to have fun, ask it in gentoo...
[05:07] <tseng> hazmat: ...
[05:07] <clee> hazmat: no, because mono is written in C#
[05:07] <dablitz> how do i renew my ip address with ubuntu
[05:07] <yyc747> I've asked lots of non-gentoo questions in gentoo
[05:07] <clee> hazmat: so it's a chicken-and-egg problem.
[05:07] <phin> ahh ok ranman :) thanks ima give it a try
[05:08] <yyc747> it usually gives me no problem
[05:08] <eldados> :)
[05:08] <yyc747> and it's not even related
[05:08] <yyc747> tseng: I'm hoping that the ubuntu community will be slightly less rabid
[05:08] <tseng> hazmat: you need a mono compiler to build mono
[05:09] <eldados> dablitz: are you on dhcp? you will need to restart the service, I think...
[05:09] <hazmat> tseng, i still don't see why, you can build mono from source on other platforms without mono installed..
[05:09] <yyc747> tseng: btw, I'm a big supporter of gentoo so watch what you say (just kidding, I hate all people who are rabidly distro-centric)
[05:09] <hazmat> tseng, sure alot of is written in c# ..
[05:09] <hazmat> but i never had the issue on say.. gentoo.. i'll take a look
[05:09] <tseng> hazmat: ok, since you are the expert.
[05:09] <tseng> hazmat: go have at it
[05:09] <tseng> mono-mcs depends on mono-assemblies
[05:09] <dablitz> and that would be /etc/init.d/dhcp stop?
[05:10] <tseng> which depends on mono-mcs
[05:10] <hazmat> tseng, sorry didn't mean to be rude.
[05:10] <hazmat> tseng, so what i'm thinking is install mono in /opt/mono add it the path, build the packages
[05:10] <hazmat> isntall mono from source that is
[05:10] <yyc747> tseng: dependancy hell!
[05:10] <tseng> i installed mono from sid to start
[05:10] <tseng> there is a guide to bootstrap the packages
[05:11] <phin> ranman: ok i ran update-menus as root, and it changed the thing i made BACK to what it was before :-\
[05:11] <tseng> but its alot more work
[05:11] <phin> this was something i edited in /var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg/
[05:13] <calc> phin: /var/lib/menu-xdg is generated data
[05:14] <mojo_> hi all ppl!
[05:14] <calc> phin: iow changing anything in there will get erased on update-menu run
[05:14] <phin> ok
[05:14] <phin> well
[05:14] <phin> where do i change things?
[05:14] <phin> lol
[05:14] <calc> you can make changes for a user in their ~/.local dir
[05:14] <mojo_> I welcome all developers SSH to my box to fix bugs (ie Bug #1552)
[05:14] <phin> so
[05:14] <mojo_> just tell me if u want!
[05:15] <phin> calc, well i wanna make em global
[05:15] <phin> but thats not TOO important
[05:15] <phin> where do i make the changes at?
[05:15] <jgeorgeson> how do i tell ubuntu that the hardware clock is not set to gmt?
[05:15] <phin> ~/.menu/ ?
[05:15] <calc> you can probably override them by overriding them at the .menu stage in /etc/menu (iirc that is where to put them)
[05:15] <mojo_> jgeogre? wat u mean?
[05:16] <ranman> phin: that is the wrong place.
[05:16] <calc> ~/.menu would be per user as well
[05:17] <mojo_> yes, hey all ppl, there is a question raised for discussion!
[05:17] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, the right time zone is listed (CDT), but the clock is 5 hours slow, which leads me to believe it is treating the hardware clock as GMT and subtracting 5 hours from it
[05:17] <mojo_> "Should we adopt Yast?"
[05:17] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: Computer > System Configuration > Time and Date
[05:17] <mojo_> Yast has been open-sourced, so y not we use it for Ubuntu?
[05:17] <calc> yast isn't even open source is it?
[05:17] <calc> ah
[05:17] <mojo_> yes, it has
[05:18] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: set it to sync your clock with an internet server
[05:18] <phin> nopw
[05:18] <phin> nope
[05:18] <phin> still not working
[05:18] <mojo_> Novell has GPL Yast recently
[05:18] <mojo_> using Yast would make Ubuntu easier to admin and install --> head to enterprise market for Ubuntu
[05:19] <jgeorgeson> LeeColleton, why can't it be told that the hardware clock isn't set to GMT? every other distro i have used has this option somewhere (during install usually)
[05:19] <calc> why not just help finish g-s-t
[05:19] <jdub> mojo_: that one's easy... "NO!" :-)
[05:19] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, lots of people think Yast is horrid
[05:19] <ranman> phin: ~/.menu is the local place to make new menu template files, and global for all users is at /var/lib/menu
[05:20] <ranman> follow the example of the other files at /var/lib/menu
[05:20] <mojo_> if u've used SuSE b4, it beat RedHat, Mandrake very far
[05:20] <phin> right
[05:20] <phin> i made a change to one of thouse
[05:20] <calc> ranman: er there is no /var/lib/menu, it appears /etc/menu is the global location
[05:20] <Jaramin> i'm going nuts doing sudo all the time... is it safe to add myself to the root group (safe as in: will it cause ownership problems to files)
[05:20] <mojo_> the weak point of GNOME is poor and discrete config tool
[05:20] <phin> and it changed it back when i did update-menus
[05:21] <mojo_> Yast is the solution for it
[05:21] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, i disagree. i think monolithic admin tools like yast and drakconf are terrible. i think RH has the best admin tools
[05:21] <jdub> mojo_: the problem is that yast is very heavily suse based, would require a huge amount of effort to port (you're welcome to start), and is not regarded as 'optimal'
[05:21] <calc> mojo_: but does yast have a clean design for frontend/backend, etc?
[05:21] <calc> otherwise just extending g-s-t would be much easier
[05:22] <tseng> yast is also very suse specific
[05:22] <tseng> obviously.
[05:22] <mojo_> calc: yes, Yast got X, GNOME and Qt backend - very nice - I will spend more time on the Yast port project - need to collect more geeks
[05:22] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, they have a dedicated tool for each task which, and the tools don't require any special massaging to edit the config files by hand, like yast does
[05:22] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: there's probably a better way to do this, but you can edit the file '/etc/default/rcS' to set UTC=no
[05:22] <phin> hmm
[05:22] <phin> no luck still :(
[05:22] <calc> mojo_: that is frontend, the backend is how you rewrite the tools to work with different dists, etc
[05:22] <calc> http://www.gnome.org/projects/gst/
[05:23] <mojo_> jgeorgreson: I understand u, but for some newcommer, Linux is hell-hard, with me, I dun even need Yast, but pls think about end-users not geek-users
[05:23] <tseng> you'll sound more convincing if you use proper english.
[05:23] <dablitz> sit0: unkown hardware address type 776 help
[05:23] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, i think rh's config tools are very user-friendly. and what i saw of g-s-t previously they are going to be just as friendly
[05:24] <grue_> Hello, I have a real question this time
[05:25] <grue_> Is there a way to change file/folder permissions from the Gnome fle browser?  Or can that only be done from a root terminal?
[05:25] <joem> grue_, right click properties
[05:25] <mojo_> what's the name of the program on MS Windows Nt, 2k, and XP where u import some windows that are separate config programs?
[05:25] <joem> you can only change what you have perms to do
[05:26] <jgeorgeson> grue_, if you have permission to change permissions on a file without a root terminal, you can do it in nautilus too
[05:26] <grue_> nautilus is what I meant.  Is there a way for my normal user to get those permissions?
[05:26] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, no idea
[05:27] <AndyFitz> grue_,  alot of the time I load nautilus --browser as root from terminal and set permissions
[05:27] <mojo_> change topic
[05:27] <grue_> is that a command line erm, command:  "nautilus --browser"
[05:28] <joem> easier to just set them from the command line..
[05:28] <grue_> OK, I was hoping there was an easier way to get write access to all these config files...
[05:28] <joem> grue_, oh dead
[05:29] <joem> er dear
[05:29] <joem> use sudo
[05:29] <joem> don't change the perms on all of the config files
[05:29] <AndyFitz> um kinda ...its just an option when loading nautilus
[05:29] <grue_> How do I do that from nautilus?
[05:29] <LeeColleton> grue_: the idea behind restricting those permissions is that ordinary users WON'T go mucking about with them
[05:29] <AndyFitz> sudo -s; nautilus --browser
[05:29] <grue_> I have been changing them back, I'm not a total TOTAL noob
[05:29] <ranman> calc: phin: oops, I was wrong about the location... "/usr/lib/menu" take a look at the package menu.. "dpkg -L menu"
[05:29] <LeeColleton> grue_: which permissions do you want to change, and why?
[05:29] <joem> uh, so just use sudo to edit them
[05:30] <joem> rather then changing the perms
[05:30] <joem> editing them and then changing back
[05:30] <jgeorgeson> grue_, sudo vi file
[05:30] <joem> ew vi
[05:30] <dablitz> ok here is my question. my system just stop the network, almost as if it looses its conncetion completely
[05:30] <dablitz> how do i fix that
[05:30] <LeeColleton> 'sudo <favorite-text-editor> file'
[05:30] <calc> ranman: /usr/lib/menu isn't the dir that the admin normally modifies, its the dist install location
[05:31] <calc> /etc/menu overrides that afaik
[05:31] <calc> /etc/menu/README says to do that anyway ;)
[05:31] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, kind of a vague problem. maybe you have a poorl supported nic. maybe you have a bad cable. if it's wifi, maybe you have a weak signal, perhaps a bad antenna
[05:31] <jgeorgeson> joem, what's the editor of the beast?
[05:32] <dablitz> ok my laptop has both wifi and eth0, wth0 is an 8139too
[05:32] <joem> vim :)
[05:32] <jgeorgeson> vivivi
[05:32] <grue_> I can handle vi
[05:32] <ranman> calc: I agree, he was looking for "permenant"
[05:33] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, i assume you're only trying to use one at a time. what is wth0?
[05:33] <dablitz> eth0 sorry
[05:34] <dablitz> i only want to use eth0 right now, but it stops at random times
[05:34] <jgeorgeson> look for notes about that driver on google?
[05:34] <jgeorgeson> is that a realtek driver?
[05:34] <dablitz> yes
[05:35] <phin> sweet i got it
[05:35] <phin> :)
[05:36] <jgeorgeson> hm, i had thought realtek's were well supported. is it really a realtek, or is it just a compatbile chip using the driver?
[05:36] <dablitz> from the specs from compacq its a realtek
[05:37] <Jaramin> in the same line of thought as grue_, I don't think doing sudo all the time ia a good answer, it's tedious. I'm learning linux, I want to be able to fiddle with things easily. Coming from the windows world, I'm used to have all permissions on my machine...
[05:37] <grue_> integrated with motherboard?
[05:37] <Jaramin> so, is there a way to grant priviliges to a user so that he can edit any files he sees in nautilus?
[05:38] <jgeorgeson> Jaramin, run `sudo -s` and you will have a root shell
[05:38] <jgeorgeson> Jaramin, and there's a root shell menu option: Applications->System Tools->Root Terminal
[05:39] <Jaramin> jgeorgson: I know, but I don't want to run just a shell, in fact I want to avoid it :P I want that, from the moment I log in, I can edit any config file I see in nautilus by double clicking on it's icon.
[05:40] <whiprush> Jaramin: don't think in windows. ;)
[05:40] <whiprush> after you set up what you want you'll never need elevated priviledges
[05:41] <grue_> Jaramin, reset the root password and then login as root.  Don't do that after you've got stuff more figured out.
[05:41] <grue_> what whiprush said
[05:41] <grue_> whiprush do you post on Ars?
[05:42] <Jaramin> whiprush: well, I do want to "think in windows", as it's natural for me, and since I'm leraning linux, I want to muck aroubd with stuff a lot, and if I break my system, well, boohoo, that's the way I'll learn :)
[05:42] <whiprush> grue_: yep
[05:42] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: running day to day as root is a bad idea.  You have been warned.
[05:42] <grue_> I'm usually SopWATh on there
[05:42] <whiprush> Jaramin: yeah, that's like the first step though, heh.
[05:42] <phlaegel> windows-(un)think won't help you in linux.
[05:42] <phlaegel> :-)
[05:43] <dablitz> "NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out" "eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x45E1"
[05:43] <dablitz> what does this mean
[05:43] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: keep vital data backed up off-system, preferably on a seperate partition, too
[05:43] <phlaegel> so is the network window slow for everyone else? I mean taking a few seconds to fill the window and become useful.
[05:43] <grue_> oh yeah!
[05:44] <Jaramin> grue_: argh, but my preferences are already all done for the current user... I thought adding myself to the root group would do the trick...
[05:44] <grue_> I reinstalled Samba 3 times before that stopped "magically"
[05:44] <joem> what is with peoples need to have root privs on everything
[05:44] <grue_> Jaramin, I know less than these other guys
[05:44] <_brandx_> There is no element present to handle the stream's mime type audio/mpeg. I get this in rhythmbox when trying to play the preset radio stations.. any ideas?
[05:44] <phlaegel> it would be nice if it could put in items as they are available, not stall the whole window for one slow thing.
[05:44] <whiprush> Jaramin: heh, this might kind sound of lame. But after I got used to the linux way, I started running my windows stuff the same way.
[05:45] <whiprush> ie. no priviledges.
[05:45] <Jaramin> LeeColletonL: is running as root under linux any worse than running as an admin on windows? if the answer is no, then that's fine with me :)
[05:45] <joem> running as admin on an infected windows machine, no :)
[05:45] <grue_> Thats the secure and correct way to do things.  If you have ZERO linux experience do stuff as root, mess it up and then fix it
[05:45] <joem> Jaramin, your user has sudo privs
[05:45] <joem> what more do you need
[05:46] <whiprush> grue_: cool cool, we have an ubuntu feedback thread going on right now, please leave some feedback if you can.
[05:46] <phin> ubuntu ROOLZ!
[05:46] <phin> lol
[05:47] <grue_> I don't really feel qualified to complain about anyting, I will mention the help I'm getting here though
[05:47] <phlaegel> anybody try running cvs tomboy on ubuntu with tseng's mono packages?
[05:47] <joem> whats in cvs tomboy?
[05:47] <grue_> what's cvs tomboy?
[05:47] <phlaegel> tomboy is http://www.beatniksoftware.com/tomboy/index.html
[05:47] <joem> tomboy from cvs sources :)
[05:48] <grue_> lol
[05:48] <Jaramin> joem: ease of use, that's what I need. the ability to make a user do everything root can, without issuing any commands. I'm all for GUI, sorry if that's disturbing for you guys :P
[05:48] <whiprush> phlaegel: I'm bored, lemme try it.
[05:48] <phlaegel> k
[05:48] <phlaegel> won't compile for me
[05:48] <joem> Jaramin, then just have the files open with gksudo gedit if you feel that way
[05:49] <joem> if that is possible, something like that is possible
[05:49] <joem> could just add a 1 line nautilus script if not
[05:50] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: the great thing about owning a computer is you can do whatever you want to with it.  If running the system as root makes sense to you, by all means; learn your lessons the hard way.  It won't, however, become a feature of Ubuntu (which has the root account disabled by default).
[05:50] <grue_> OK, so tomboy is a notetaking application that runs with mono???
[05:50] <phlaegel> yep
[05:50] <phlaegel> it's like a personal wiki
[05:50] <phlaegel> with some cool stuff planned
[05:50] <joem> phlaegel, what is in cvs that isn't in the release that makes it worth using
[05:50] <Jaramin> joem: yeah, well that's waht I did with the shortcut to nautilus, but that effectively *makes* me root, so when I trash stuff, it goes into root's trash, not mine... see where I'm going?
[05:50] <grue_> cool, how does one get Mono running?
[05:50] <joem> Jaramin, no it doesn't
[05:51] <joem> why would you trash config files anyways
[05:51] <defendguin> grue_, good idea would be to get a repository with mono apps in it
[05:51] <whiprush> phlaegel: all works for me, fresh from cvs
[05:51] <phlaegel> joem: I'd like to try and contribute back. Hard to do if it won't build.
[05:51] <joem> ah
[05:51] <grue_> how do I get a different repository?
[05:51] <joem> phlaegel, what does the compile fail on?
[05:51] <phlaegel> whiprush: hm
[05:51] <phlaegel> using tseng's mono source?
[05:52] <whiprush> yep
[05:52] <grue_> I uncommented the universe lines for that synaptic thing
[05:52] <joem> grue_, read the faq on the wiki
[05:52] <grue_> OK
[05:52] <joem> has a section about mono
[05:52] <grue_> sorry
[05:52] <phlaegel> it complains that it's missing Mono.Posix, which makes no sense, since that's part of mono.
[05:52] <joem> at the bottom
[05:52] <whiprush> deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs/ ./
[05:52] <whiprush> you want to add that to your sources.list grue_
[05:52] <WW_> Could someone give me a brief summary of the difference between "Mark for Removal" and "Mark for Complete Removal" in Synaptic?
[05:53] <joem> phlaegel, you have all of the mono dev packages installed?
[05:53] <whiprush> WW_: complete removal removes the config files also
[05:53] <whiprush> like a purge
[05:53] <grue_> whiprush, which sources.list do I add it to?
[05:53] <whiprush>  /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:53] <joem> /etc/apt/sources.lst
[05:53] <grue_> I did a file search and theres a bunch of them
[05:53] <whiprush> then apt-get update
[05:53] <phlaegel> joem: as far as I can tell, unless it's named something I haven't though to search on.
[05:54] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: I don't want it to be feature :P Being a small business admin, I certainly do understand the user/root model and it's purpose (keeping the admin sane, lol). It's just that I thought that it was possible to create or grant privileges to a particular user so that he would becone some sort of second root
[05:54] <joem> Jaramin, that is what sudo is
[05:54] <joem> having root privs but not running as root
[05:55] <whiprush> grue_: after you apt-get update, then mono and everything in that repo will be available to you.
[05:55] <joem> if you plan on running gnome and net apps as root, better expect lots of trouble
[05:56] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: you can run 'sudo visudo' to give additional users root-level access
[05:57] <q2> hey all
[05:57] <Jaramin> joem: it does, try it. I have changed my nautilus shortcut by adding gksudo. with that, I can open a nautilus window that will allow me to edit files right on the spot by double cliking. but, let's say I change folder from that window, and go delete some log files. well they end up in root's trash.
[05:57] <joem> you don't run nautilus as root
[05:58] <joem> you open the files with gksudo
[05:58] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: ah, now that sounds interesting!
[05:58] <joem> so you right click on a config file, and run a nautilus script that opens gedit or whatever with gksudo
[05:58] <joem> then you can edit the file and save it, no problem
[05:59] <whiprush> I see what you need Jaramin
[05:59] <whiprush> you need "Run As" on the desktop
[05:59] <grue_> whiprush: do I need that "./" at the end of the line?  It's giving me a 404
[05:59] <whiprush> grue_: lemme try
[05:59] <whiprush> yeah
[06:00] <whiprush> deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs/ ./
[06:00] <whiprush> that's what I have and it works
[06:00] <phlaegel> same here
[06:00] <whiprush> phlaegel: so what error were you getting?
[06:00] <grue_> doh, I miss-typed it
[06:01] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: sudo can be extensively configured, allowing certain users access to certain commands.  This is beyond the needs of most personal computer systems, which probably have one owner/administrator and maybe a few casual users.
[06:02] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: hmm, does sudo visudo just allows other user to use sudo?
[06:02] <whiprush> you can add any user to the sudoers group
[06:03] <ionrock> hello all, does anyone have any experience with recompiling the kernel on a laptop?
[06:03] <whiprush> so, like, at work, for example ....
[06:03] <joem> ionrock, same as doing it on any other machine
[06:03] <whiprush> you can have three admins in the group for a file server or whatever.
[06:03] <whiprush> but, they all use their own passwords to get super user privs.
[06:04] <whiprush> so, when you fire admin #3, you just remove him from the group
[06:04] <whiprush> instead of the old way
[06:04] <whiprush> "hey everyone, new root password!"
[06:04] <ionrock> joem, the reason I ask is b/c I did it the other day and it wouldn't load b/c it couldn't find an initrd image. I think it is used to make sure the pcmcia bus starts up
[06:04] <phlaegel> whiprush: complains that Mono.Posix can't be found, but the dll is there
[06:04] <joem> ionrock, if you are using ubuntu, try running update grub
[06:05] <joem> er update-grub
[06:05] <whiprush> you sure you don't have some old compiled version in /usr/local?
[06:05] <ionrock> I needed to try and get my suspend working so I am messing with the kernel to get it going but I am thinking I need to make a initrd image
[06:05] <ionrock> joem, I did that before but to no avail
[06:05] <phlaegel> whiprush: version of what?
[06:05] <joem> did you try to just reinstall the kernel image package
[06:05] <whiprush> mono?
[06:05] <phlaegel> ls /usr/local/
[06:05] <joem> it should put the initrd in /boot
[06:06] <phlaegel> /usr/local is empty. the only mono installing is from tseng
[06:06] <whiprush> hmm
[06:06] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: visudo is just a vi session that locks the file /etc/sudoers
[06:06] <ionrock> joem, since I couldn't include the suspend to disk stuff it wouldn't really do me much good ;)
[06:06] <whiprush> have you installed monodevelop or some other gtk# app? maybe your missing some dep.
[06:06] <phlaegel> whiprush: I just realized mono.posix isn't the first error... it's the line before it. still not sure why.
[06:06] <phin> learning vim is fun
[06:06] <phin> lol
[06:07] <whiprush> phlaegel: pastebin the whole thing
[06:07] <Jaramin> whiprush: the computer will only be used by me, it's my home computer. The "run as" an idea, but still tedious... is it possible *at all* in linux for a user different than root, from the moment they log on, to be able to access any file as root would through the GUI? that's what I want to know.
[06:07] <sopwath> Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it.
[06:07] <joem> Jaramin, no, not without using sudo
[06:08] <phlaegel> whiprush: http://pastebin.com/108320
[06:08] <joem> you won't be the only person using the box if you start to run net apps as root either
[06:08] <ionrock> Jaramin, you could add your user to the root group... but I am thinking that is not a good idea
[06:08] <whiprush> Jaramin: I swear to you man, after you install, you'll need root access like, 5% of the time. Really.
[06:09] <Jaramin> joem: *deception*
[06:09] <joem> Jaramin, not quite
[06:09] <phin> i wouldnt do it
[06:09] <phin> just install sudo
[06:09] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: yes, but that totally defeats the "as needed" approach to system access.  the sudo utility goes a long way to bridge this gap between usablility and security.
[06:09] <phin> then all you have todo is hit sudo to do something as root
[06:10] <Jaramin> whiprush: not really, I'll be changing config files dayly, trying stuff, testing stuff...
[06:10] <phlaegel> Jaramin: it seems like you should just try using things for a while as it comes. the things your asking for are either bad ideas or would just not work well.
[06:10] <phin> you will regret running 100% as root
[06:10] <phin> when you remove something accidently
[06:10] <phin> that you dont want to
[06:10] <LeeColleton> by the way, "sudo -s" opens a shell session with root access
[06:10] <whiprush> Jaramin: you can do 90% of that as a user.
[06:10] <phin> yep
[06:10] <whiprush> I swear, I do it every day
[06:10] <phin> i enabled my root account on ubuntu, but that was just from using it as habit
[06:10] <phin> i havent actually used it once in the last week or so
[06:10] <phlaegel> just open a root shell, or better, a normal shell, sudo vi blah, and leave it open while you work on it.
[06:10] <phin> just so used to sudo
[06:11] <phin> plus ive added sudo to a few servers i like it so much :)
[06:11] <whiprush> phlaegel: k, asking people smarter than me, sec.
[06:11] <ionrock> I can't even apt-cache without sudo just b/c I so used to "sudo apt-get..."
[06:13] <phin> i dont even think my system resembles anything of a ubuntu install anymore
[06:13] <phin> its totally changed
[06:13] <LeeColleton> Why oh why does apt-get invariably get an error when accessing archive.ubuntu.com for the first time?  The error is gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
[06:14] <ionrock> I was getting that b/c I didn't comment out the standard non-universe lines in my sources.list
[06:14] <whiprush> phlaegel: yeah something is up because I'm building stuff right after your line 7. all the way down, yours is skipping something.
[06:14] <whiprush> libgconf-cil installed?
[06:14] <phlaegel> that's because that's not the first run of make
[06:14] <phlaegel> yep
[06:15] <whiprush> No, I deleted and started over
[06:15] <whiprush> lemme double check
[06:15] <phlaegel> no, it's not my first run of make.
[06:16] <phin> think removing dbus would be a bad idea?
[06:16] <phin> is it needed
[06:16] <whiprush> yes
[06:16] <defendguin> anyone have a gaim-vv for ubuntu?
[06:16] <phlaegel> whiprush: http://pastebin.com/108321
[06:16] <phlaegel> that's after make clea
[06:16] <phlaegel> n
[06:16] <phin> whip, example of what exactly is using it?
[06:16] <joem> phin, hal
[06:17] <phin> ah ok
[06:17] <phin> i wonder if i really need hal
[06:17] <phlaegel> yes you do. stop.
[06:17] <joem> :)
[06:17] <LeeColleton> defendguin: is gaim-vv the encryption capable version?
[06:17] <phin> i mean i know its part of ubuntu
[06:17] <phin> but like i said
[06:17] <phlaegel> start removing that stuff, you're removing all the cool stuff ubuntu does now and will do.
[06:17] <joem> gaim-encryption is a seperate package
[06:17] <phin> this system isnt even ubuntu anymore
[06:17] <phin> lol
[06:18] <phlaegel> whiprush: that second paste look more like your build?
[06:18] <whiprush> yeah, up until about the errors
[06:18] <phlaegel> right
[06:18] <whiprush> how about I send you my package list and you diff it
[06:18] <phlaegel> k
[06:18] <phlaegel> email?
[06:19] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I'm trying to build tomboy but ./configure is complaining that I don't have package 'gdk-2.0'
[06:19] <defendguin> LeeColleton, voice and video
[06:20] <joem> LeeColleton, libgtk-dev
[06:20] <whiprush> phlaegel: http://www.arslinux.com/~jorge/gentoo.txt
[06:20] <LeeColleton> joem: is there an ubuntu package of gaim-encryption?
[06:20] <joem> LeeColleton, not that I know of
[06:20] <LeeColleton> joem: I get 'Note, selecting libgtk1.2-dev instead of libgtk-dev' and that it's already installed
[06:20] <joem> not 1.2
[06:20] <joem> 2.0
[06:21] <LeeColleton> joem: right, what?
[06:21] <joem> libgtk-2.0-dev
[06:21] <joem> er libgtk2.0-dev
[06:21] <phlaegel> whiprush: dumb debian question... where's the package list? :-)
[06:21] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:21] <whiprush> apt-get -uf install
[06:21] <LeeColleton> joem: sorted.  thanks
[06:21] <whiprush>               `cat packagelist.txt`
[06:22] <whiprush> oops, you get the idea
[06:22] <whiprush> oh, you mean of your currently installe dstuff?
[06:22] <phlaegel> right
[06:22] <phlaegel> same list you did
[06:22] <whiprush> dpkg --get-selections | grep '[[:space:] ] install$' | awk '{print $1}'
[06:22] <phlaegel> see, I would've had to know that
[06:22] <whiprush> > whatever.txt
[06:23] <phin> oh sweet
[06:23] <ionrock> whoa, you can do apt-cache --help and get the syspkg or something like that to list what you have
[06:23] <phin> thanks whip :)
[06:23] <whiprush> phin: ok, here's the ninja part.
[06:23] <whiprush> you export that as a .txt
[06:23] <ionrock> apt-cache pkgnames
[06:23] <whiprush> then, when you install on another machine
[06:23] <phin> right i get it
[06:23] <phin> thats cool
[06:23] <whiprush> reimport that package list
[06:23] <whiprush> woo.
[06:24] <phin> yep
[06:24] <mooj> ok i got a problem
[06:24] <phin> thats definitly fresh
[06:24] <mooj> whenever i try to compile something
[06:24] <phin> i just made an exportdeblist script :P
[06:24] <whiprush> copy over a /home on a usb drive and you're good to go.
[06:24] <mooj> i get a "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH" error
[06:24] <mooj> i cant compile everything
[06:24] <mooj> er anything
[06:25] <whiprush> do you have gcc installed?
[06:25] <mooj> yeah
[06:25] <phlaegel> install build-essential ?
[06:25] <whiprush> fabbione: morning
[06:26] <phlaegel> whiprush: you have a couple hundred packages installed that I don't :-)
[06:26] <whiprush> heh
[06:26] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: sorry, another tomboy ./configure snag;  No package 'gtk-sharp' found.  apt-cache doesn't show it
[06:26] <joem> LeeColleton, are you using tsengs mono repo?
[06:27] <phlaegel> try libgtk-cil
[06:28] <mooj> thanks guys
[06:28] <mooj> i needed build essential
[06:28] <phlaegel> interestingly, I have no gdk packages installed at all, but older tomboy cvs *did* build.
[06:28] <mooj> that should be a default installed package
[06:29] <mooj> if there are any ubuntu devs in the room
[06:29] <joem> mooj, lots of people don't need them
[06:29] <mooj> i dont see how
[06:29] <phlaegel> not really, the majority of ubuntu's target audience does not need dev tools
[06:29] <LeeColleton> joem: I'm not sure, so.. probably not.  I have a slew of mono packages installed from somewhere.
[06:29] <mooj> well to compile source
[06:29] <joem> ubuntu provides a binary desktop
[06:29] <mooj> there are so many packages that arent in apt
[06:29] <mooj> or rpm
[06:29] <phlaegel> average people do not compile source. they've never even heard of it.
[06:29] <joem> average users are fine with what is offered
[06:30] <joem> if you are compiling stuff from source, you move into the should know what you are doing group
[06:30] <WW_> Does an average user need vim?
[06:30] <phlaegel> average is the wrong word. I think 'most' is the right word.
[06:30] <mooj> with linux being the way it is presently, c dev tools are a must, i'm using gcc right now to compile webcam support for gaim
[06:30] <mooj> this is something a normal user would use
[06:30] <phlaegel> WW_: no, but it's a valuable system tool that is far more likely to be needed than a compiler.
[06:30] <joem> WW_, need to have some sort of cli editor incase something goes wrong and you need to trouble shoot
[06:31] <mooj> yeah you need a console text editor
[06:31] <ionrock> I remember when I made the effor to go from "average" to "power" and it was nice to have a little success at first
[06:31] <mooj> what would you do if you screwed you x conf
[06:31] <phlaegel> mooj: a normal user would never think "hm, in order to use my webcam, I'll have to find the source and compile a driver"
[06:31] <mooj> exactly
[06:31] <ionrock> I compile bluefish and it was pretty thrilling ;)
[06:31] <WW_> How many editors are installed by default? (Just curious.)
[06:31] <mooj> but linux being the way it is currently
[06:31] <mooj> you need to have them there
[06:31] <joem> I haven't had to compile anything yet
[06:32] <phlaegel> no you don't. and you don't progress by doing things the way you've always done them.
[06:32] <whiprush> guys, there's like 13,000 packages available via universe.
[06:32] <joem> accept gaim once to get the headers..
[06:32] <whiprush> that's like ... all of them
[06:32] <mooj> unless ubuntu has a team of people going out there and finding every lib they can and compiling them and adding them to apt
[06:32] <LeeColleton> whiprush: gaim-encryption isn't in there ;-)
[06:32] <mooj> you need gcc
[06:32] <joem> LeeColleton, I bet if you look around you could find a deb for it
[06:32] <phlaegel> I think the only thing I've compiled on ubuntu so far is tomboy, just because I want to see if I can contribute. not an average user kind of thing.
[06:32] <defendguin> there are a lot of projects that arnt there
[06:33] <whiprush> LeeColleton: heh, there is a .deb, but not in debian either.
[06:33] <defendguin> i think gnomefiles.org should start buidling debs and rpms of every package
[06:33] <LeeColleton> joem: yes, one that I had to forceably install and it caused all sorts of error messages every time I ran apt-get
[06:33] <phlaegel> <average user> encryption? I just want to talk to my friends!!!!1
[06:33] <phlaegel> s/to/2/g ;-)
[06:34] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I agree that state of mind pervades many computer users, but it's one that can and should change.
[06:34] <Treenaks> phlaegel: just show them ethereal output from when they're chatting
[06:34] <phlaegel> no, it shouldn't. people want to *use* computers, not *manage* them.
[06:34] <Treenaks> phlaegel: "I can read what you're saying"
[06:34] <mooj> to help move linux along
[06:34] <phlaegel> <average user> so? I don't have anything to hide
[06:35] <joem> best sort of encryption, c u l8
[06:35] <mooj> i think sourceforge and freshmeat should require their project to product packages
[06:35] <mooj> either rpm or apt
[06:35] <Treenaks> phlaegel: Ah, so you don't lock the door when you go to the toilet?
[06:35] <joem> mooj, why, because they feel like wasting the extra disk space
[06:35] <phlaegel> heh... I didn't say it was my arguement...
[06:35] <ranman> mooj: Is there a patch for gaim that is from the gaim-vv that you know of?
[06:35] <joem> ranman, no
[06:35] <Treenaks> phlaegel: I know, it's just that for every 'common user' statement there's a counterargument
[06:35] <defendguin> ranman, you just have to get gaim-vv
[06:36] <Treenaks> phlaegel: "Would you write this on a postcard?" is a nice one ;)
[06:36] <phlaegel> true, and the average users don't care. I've tried.
[06:36] <defendguin> and i havent seen a deb for it yet
[06:36] <phlaegel> ok, most average users. some get it with good explanations.
[06:36] <mooj> ranman: gaim-vv.sourceforge.net/download.html
[06:36] <Treenaks> phlaegel: but I agree, it should be as automatic as possible
[06:37] <joem> wouldn't write it on a postcard, but wouldn't go out of my way incase some random person happens to be waiting with a packet scanner running either
[06:37] <joem> takes a lot of work to spy on some random persons boring conversation
[06:37] <phlaegel> Treenaks: which is why I like ubuntu so much so far. they seem to be on the same wavelength as me. :-)
[06:37] <Treenaks> phlaegel: same here :)
[06:37] <WW_> I am updating hal (using Synaptic), and now it says that /etc/dbus-1/event.d/hal has been modified "by you or by a script"
[06:38] <joem> WW_, means the the new package contains a different config file then what is already there
[06:38] <joem> you probably want to update it, as most users wouldn't change that file for any reason
[06:38] <WW_> I don't think I ever modified it.
[06:38] <ranman> mooj: yes, I have gaim-vv at /usr/local & gaim at /usr... Just annoying to switch back and forth..
[06:38] <WW_> Right
[06:38] <joem> ranman, why do you need to switch back and forth
[06:38] <joem> can't you just use wv?
[06:38] <ranman> maybe I will make my own patch.
[06:39] <WW_> joem: So "Install the package maintainer's version" is probably the correct choice?
[06:39] <whiprush> phlaegel: so your tomboy working now?
[06:39] <ranman> maybe I did not compile correctly, gaim-vv has no sound and icons (chatbuddy icons)..
[06:39] <phlaegel> still digging
[06:39] <joem> WW_, yea
[06:39] <whiprush> k
[06:40] <joem> ranman, it should have what ever gaim had at the point of the fork
[06:40] <joem> I know it had sound :)
[06:40] <Treenaks> joem: isn't gaim-vv feending the changes back into the main gaim tree?
[06:40] <ranman> hmmm, recheck my compile options.. It is annoying to not have sound and minimized window..
[06:40] <joem> Treenaks, only the features they want
[06:41] <Treenaks> joem: don't they want webcam support?
[06:41] <joem> I don't think they want a (from what I hear) buggy video patch
[06:41] <ranman> Treenaks: I think that they are waiting for the ability to send your webcam..
[06:42] <ranman> ayttc has both, and using the same library.. But it is ugly as hell..
[06:42] <LeeColleton> so which gtk-sharp package do I need to compile tomboy?
[06:43] <phlaegel> didn't libgtk-cil work?
[06:43] <LeeColleton> libgtk-cil??
[06:43] <LeeColleton> edd: Couldn't find package libgtk-cil
[06:43] <LeeColleton> edd: oops, nevermind
[06:44] <whiprush> phlaegel: you try building ifolder recently perchance?
[06:44] <WW_> That was weird.  Why would an upgrade (in Synaptic) start a couple file browsers?
[06:44] <phlaegel> haven't tried it yet
[06:44] <phlaegel> whiprush: does it even work yet? ;-)
[06:45] <whiprush> I have it sort of working
[06:45] <phlaegel> heh
[06:45] <WW_> ...one in /home, and one in /
[06:45] <LeeColleton> where is the libgtk-cil package?
[06:45] <phlaegel> WW_: it's because of the hal upgrade/restart, afaik
[06:45] <whiprush> I'm positive it's a pebkac error though. At that ohiolinux thing the novell guy was using it, and NLD releases this month. So if it's not working then I must have messed something up.
[06:46] <phlaegel> LeeColleton: I got it from the tseng's source along with the other mono stuff
[06:46] <whiprush> problem is, I haven't run into anyone that has gotten it working yet
[06:46] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: got it
[06:46] <phlaegel> seems like ifolder could be really handy if it got integrated nicely into gnome (or other environments/filers)
[06:46] <WW_> phlaegel: Is it _supposed_ to do that?  Or is it a bug?
[06:46] <linux_mafia> whiprush, what you trying to get working?
[06:46] <whiprush> phlaegel: it has nautilus integration
[06:46] <mooj> gdk isnt in apt?
[06:46] <whiprush> linux_mafia: ifolder
[06:47] <linux_mafia> oh, ok
[06:47] <phlaegel> WW_: probably a minor bug. when hal restarts, gnome-volume-manager notices a bunch of new devices and opens them...
[06:47] <phlaegel> whiprush: is it *good* nautilus integration?
[06:47] <whiprush> yeah
[06:47] <whiprush> you right click on the folder
[06:47] <whiprush> click share
[06:47] <whiprush> add users
[06:47] <mooj> gdk isnt in apt?
[06:47] <whiprush> done and done
[06:47] <phlaegel> nice
[06:47] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: now it's complaining there is no gnome-sharp package.. what would this be called?  libgnome-something-or-other?
[06:48] <phlaegel> what about connecting to shares started by someone else?
[06:48] <whiprush> dunno, it's hard to follow
[06:48] <mooj> gnome sharp is in a seperate repository
[06:48] <phlaegel> LeeColleton: probably libgnome-cil
[06:48] <whiprush> they don't update a changelong in cvs. you have to scan every single commit
[06:48] <phlaegel> oh, that's handy
[06:49] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: so it is.  Is there a list of these packages somewhere?
[06:49] <phlaegel> search for cil in synaptic
[06:49] <phlaegel> cil == Common Language Infrastructure (aka the core of .net)
[06:51] <yuri> I have NEC DVD+RW connected to my ubuntu pc through firewire but I dont see an icon for it like I see for usb devices. what is wrong?
[06:52] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I got tomboy compiled.  Thanks for your help!
[06:53] <yuri> (sorry, I am not sure if this is the right channel for this kind of post)
[06:53] <phin> is hal pretty cpu intensive?
[06:53] <phlaegel> np. now help me. ;-)
[06:53] <phin> like, is it constantly scanning?
[06:53] <whiprush> I think it works on interrupts
[06:53] <whiprush> but I don't know anything about anything
[06:53] <phlaegel> phin: I think it just updates based on hotplug events
[06:53] <whiprush> so I have no idea
[06:53] <phin> ok
[06:53] <phin> thats what i figured
[06:53] <phin> i got this laptop running pretty speedy :)
[06:53] <phlaegel> or probably the new kernel events stuff
[06:54] <whiprush> yuri: do you know if your kernel detects the drive?
[06:54] <phin> 100% custom gtk and flux themes as well :)
[06:54] <whiprush> ie check /var/log/syslog and see if it mentions the drive?
[06:54] <phlaegel> whiprush: I can't find any packages that you have that make a difference... I'm going to post on the tomboy mailing list.
[06:54] <yuri> how can I find out about that?
[06:54] <whiprush> k
[06:55] <whiprush> yuri: do this
[06:55] <phlaegel> thanks for trying :-)
[06:55] <yuri> ok. let me check
[06:55] <linux_mafia> whiprush, did you install ifolder from cvs or alien the rpms? i couldnt see src files, but i am half blind :)
[06:55] <whiprush> open up a terminal. then do 'tail -f /var/log/syslog'
[06:55] <whiprush> then plug in the drive
[06:55] <whiprush> if it detects it, it should spit out a bunch of stuff
[06:56] <whiprush> linux_mafia: both.
[06:56] <whiprush> I don't think they do source tarballs
[06:56] <whiprush> they have a cvs though
[06:56] <whiprush> sec
[06:56] <whiprush> http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/cvs/cvspage.php/ifolder/ <--- cvs intructions
[06:56] <linux_mafia> whiprush, nah im looking at the site, couldnt see tars, but just thought id check with you
[06:57] <linux_mafia> whiprush, did aliened rpms work ?
[06:57] <yuri> whitprush: yes, it does!
[06:57] <whiprush> depends on the build linux_mafia. Usually they do
[06:58] <whiprush> as in work I mean "a gui launches and stuff."
[06:58] <whiprush> I haven't gotten it to sync with another machine though
[06:58] <linux_mafia> whiprush, ok, been meaning to check out ifolder for a while
[06:58] <whiprush> yuri: can you /msg me what it says please?
[06:58] <whiprush> just cut and paste
[06:59] <whiprush> linux_mafia: I can't get it working in windows either. :-/
[06:59] <whiprush> and that's just a .exe.
[07:00] <calc> clee: what is the proper way to upgrade fc3 since up2date doesn't work right? yum or something like that?
[07:00] <linux_mafia> whiprush, bummer
[07:00] <clee> calc: yeah. yum update.
[07:00] <calc> ok
[07:00] <clee> calc: but you should really be using ubuntu anyway. Yum sucks.
[07:00] <linux_mafia> whiprush, they fixed it so it only works with suse enterprise server, heh
[07:01] <calc> i think i will reinstall fc3 before leaving tomorrow since i still haven't heard of a rebuild of pure64 d-i
[07:01] <whiprush> :(
[07:01] <calc> clee: hmm maybe i'll stick with ubuntu then :)
[07:01] <whiprush> heh, I chris lee.
[07:01] <whiprush> duh.
[07:01] <calc> only issue currently having is i have to run the dbg build
[07:01] <calc> since xserver-xfree86 loader is broken on amd64 for it
[07:02] <clee> whiprush: ?
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Reconnected to SBP-2 device
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node 0-00:1023: Max speed [S400]  - Max payload [1024]
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node suspended: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061]
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost udev[8286] : removing device node '/dev/sr0'
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node resumed: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061]
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node changed: 0-01:1023 -> 0-02:1023
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: unsolicited response packet received - no tlabel match
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:17 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error reconnecting to SBP-2 device - reconnect timed-out
[07:02] <whiprush> dude
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error logging into SBP-2 device - login timed-out
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Failed to reconnect to sbp2 device!
[07:02] <whiprush> ok
[07:02] <joem> ah
[07:02] <whiprush> next time, /msg me that
[07:02] <whiprush> heh
[07:02] <yuri> sorry, how do I do that...
[07:02] <clee> whiprush: what was the whole "I chris lee" comment about?
[07:02] <whiprush> clee: I didn't know who you were, heh.
[07:03] <calc> whiprush: yep two chris' talking to each other :)
[07:03] <whiprush> the "I" was a typo
[07:03] <joem> clee, he wants to be you
[07:03] <joem> like everybody else
[07:03] <clee> whiprush: Do you recognize me now? :)
[07:03] <clee> joem: Well, duh, dude.
[07:03] <whiprush> yuri: next time, do /msg whiprush hey dude
[07:03] <whiprush> then paste
[07:03] <phlaegel> ouch. dd'ing a cd to a file makes fam take 30% cpu, and nautilus 40%.
[07:03] <whiprush> clee: I, for one, welcome our new freedesktop.org overlords.
[07:03] <clee> hahahaha
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Reconnected to SBP-2 device
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node 0-00:1023: Max speed [S400]  - Max payload [1024]
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node suspended: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061]
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost udev[8286] : removing device node '/dev/sr0'
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node resumed: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061]
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node changed: 0-01:1023 -> 0-02:1023
[07:03] <clee> whiprush: :)
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: unsolicited response packet received - no tlabel match
[07:04] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:17 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error reconnecting to SBP-2 device - reconnect timed-out
[07:04] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error logging into SBP-2 device - login timed-out
[07:04] <joem> ah
[07:04] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Failed to reconnect to sbp2 device!
[07:04] <yuri> like that?
[07:04] <whiprush> omg yuri, I kill you.
[07:04] <phlaegel> pastebin.com
[07:04] <joem> irc is the new pastebin
[07:04] <joem> didn't you hear
[07:04] <calc> hehehe
[07:04] <yuri> I guess I got to go to an FAQ first...
[07:04] <clee> orange is the new pink! LOL OMG WTF BBQ
[07:04] <LeeColleton> yuri: please be sensitive to people on low-speed connections and not paste loads of text
[07:04] <whiprush> omfg rololo
[07:05] <calc> i'm surprised he didn't flood himself off
[07:05] <whiprush> indeed
[07:05] <clee> yuri: dude, it's considered *very* rude to do that
[07:05] <clee> doesn't xchat rate limit anyway? :(
[07:05] <whiprush> omg ccheney also.
[07:05] <ranman> For the IRC noobies... "/msg $lusername $message"..
[07:05] <whiprush> damn this channel an it's star power.
[07:05] <clee> whiprush: Yep.
[07:06] <Treenaks> hey, a new flag in bugzilla
[07:07] <LeeColleton> tomboy takes a crap when I try to run it once it's been installed <http://pastebin.com/108324>
[07:08] <LeeColleton> do I have to do something silly and give users write access to the executable?
[07:08] <phlaegel> you need to run configure like this before compiling: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
[07:08] <joem> it looks like it is in /usr/local
[07:09] <phlaegel> I just build stuff like that into ~/local
[07:09] <whiprush> hmm, I just ran autogen.sh and didn't have to do any of that fancy stuff phlaegel
[07:09] <phlaegel> where's you install it?
[07:09] <phlaegel> joem: er, right. hm
[07:09] <joem> LeeColleton, don't run tomboy.exe
[07:09] <joem> run the wrapper in /usr/local/bin
[07:09] <samurai> anyone know why there was no debian sub-menu included in ubuntu, like there is under regular debian/gnome?
[07:09] <phlaegel> just run tomboy
[07:10] <phlaegel> heh
[07:10] <LeeColleton> joem: that's what I did.  /usr/local/bin/tomboy
[07:10] <joem> samurai, cause it isn't debian :)
[07:11] <phlaegel> whiprush: where'd you install tomboy to?
[07:11] <samurai> right right... ok then, why aren't there menu entries to deal with the 1000 programs that aren't debian that don't show up?
[07:11] <hazmat> samurai, because its trying to be sensible
[07:11] <joem> and because the applications don't use the freedesktop menu spec
[07:11] <joem> so they loose out
[07:11] <whiprush> phlaegel: /usr/local/bin/tomboy
[07:11] <whiprush> by default
[07:11] <phlaegel> oh, so that's the default.
[07:12] <phlaegel> didn't realize that.
[07:12] <ranman> LeeColleton: isn't there a package for tomboy in apt?
[07:12] <joem> default is wherever the configure script sets it
[07:12] <phlaegel> I just automatically put stuff I build into ~/local
[07:12] <whiprush> man dude
[07:12] <phlaegel> joem: right, but not all apps set it to /usr/local
[07:12] <whiprush> I think gentoo damaged you more than I realized. :p
[07:12] <ranman> I just added it in my update..
[07:12] <joem> No manual entry for dude
[07:12] <LeeColleton> ranman: ha ha ha.  no
[07:12] <phlaegel> whiprush: gfy
[07:12] <whiprush> heh
[07:12] <LeeColleton> oh.  yes there is
[07:13] <ranman> haha
[07:13] <samurai> oh just curious it seems that regardless of the compatibility with the freedesktop menuing specicifcation that it is limiting to not include then in some type of menu
[07:13] <phlaegel> no silly root permissions to install to ~/local. (that's something I've only been doing since switching back to debian, btw. on gentoo I'd just make my own ebuild)
[07:13] <whiprush> clee/calc: so what brings you gents here? working with canonical or what?
[07:14] <joem> samurai, what doesn't it include in the menu that is important?
[07:14] <ranman> I miss my debian menu... Where is the freedesktop compatibility?
[07:14] <clee> whiprush: ha. no. I work for Red Hat, dude.
[07:14] <defendguin> woo hoo redhat
[07:14] <clee> whiprush: I have to keep an eye on our competition so that we can crush them easier. ;)
[07:14] <whiprush> clee: yeah I know ...
[07:14] <joem> ranman, applications use .desktop files that are used for placing menu entrys and now mime types
[07:14] <whiprush> happy community and all that. :p
[07:14] <ranman> The only integration tha I have seen of the menu is kde control center in the root of my menu.. confusing first time click..
[07:15] <samurai> well, important to one isn't necessarily important to another joem... for instance including mahjong isn't important for someone that doesn't play it, yet scribus could be really important if you want to do desktop publishing type stuff
[07:15] <joem> write the scribus author and tell him about the standards
[07:15] <clee> whiprush: I'm kidding. daniels is a good friend of mine and works for Canonical. And I love Debian distros.
[07:16] <clee> whiprush: I run all RHEL and Fedora Core at work
[07:16] <joem> it is easy for packages to add a .desktop file, probably just need to be made aware of it
[07:16] <clee> and all ubuntu at home :)
[07:16] <whiprush> clee: yeah I know. No need to explain to me. I dig your guy's work.
[07:16] <samurai> ok i'm confused, what does the standards have to do with it.... doesn't being included in the menu just invoke the program... how does it differ from running from the commandline?
[07:17] <clee> whiprush: I hate RPM. :) - but I really love the stuff that we at RH do for the community at large, so I have no qualms about working there
[07:17] <whiprush> clee: got to check out walters' presentation on selinux at last weekends ohio linuxfest.
[07:17] <whiprush> some damn fine work going on there.
[07:17] <phlaegel> I want fedora's auth config tool on ubuntu :-)
[07:17] <clee> whiprush: heh. yeah, walters rules. :)
[07:17] <joem> samurai, if they want it to be included in the menu, they need to install a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications
[07:17] <calc> clee: after reading the rpm guide rpm doesn't seem so bad, just different vs deb ;)
[07:17] <whiprush> I don't hate rpm.
[07:17] <joem> that was the problem wasn't it, that there was no menu entry for it?
[07:17] <clee> calc: meh. it's not that RPM as a package format is bad, it's just that it seems like most of the packages suck.
[07:18] <calc> clee: yea
[07:18] <whiprush> people just compare rpm to apt, which is dumb. We'd be just as broken if we were installing .debs by hand all day
[07:18] <phlaegel> I don't think I've had a good yum experience yet.
[07:18] <samurai> joem: so then the menus are basically autogenerated based on the file in the /usr/share/applications directory?
[07:18] <clee> whiprush: well, part of the problem is that there isn't nearly as nice of a separation with RPM as there is with the dpkg utils
[07:18] <joem> samurai, yes
[07:18] <calc> whiprush: well rpm the format does have some limitations and doesn't have someone backing it like eg deb == debian (with debian policy) etc
[07:18] <clee> RPM is much more monolithic - One Command to Rule Them All
[07:18] <joem> look at a .desktop file in that dir for an example
[07:18] <samurai> how does debian deal with this under there implementation of gnome?
[07:19] <linux_mafia> and what of apt4rpm? you guys thinks thats good?
[07:19] <joem> they might add those files to packages that don't have them
[07:19] <whiprush> yeah, but 90% of people whining about RPM is some dude downloading from Joe's Cool RPMs for some wrong version and wondering why it's broken
[07:19] <joem> have never used debian
[07:19] <whiprush> fc should abstract rpm from the user more.
[07:19] <clee> whiprush: totally.
[07:19] <calc> samurai: the menu itself isn't generated but the items in subsections are
[07:19] <whiprush> "dude, just use yum/whatever."
[07:19] <samurai> joem: to bad.... oh well
[07:19] <calc> er that didn't come out quite right
[07:19] <samurai> calc: is there documentation on this somewhere?
[07:20] <linux_mafia> always thought it was odd that connectiva was the first to make an apt/rpm package
[07:20] <calc> the sections in the menu are hardcoded really but they state which categories go in each
[07:20] <whiprush> linux_mafia: apt4rpm works great
[07:20] <calc> samurai: freedesktop.org
[07:20] <joem> http://freedesktop.org/Standards/menu-spec
[07:20] <calc> samurai: the xdg, desktop, menu specs
[07:20] <whiprush> but the problem with FC as a distro has nothing to do with rpm or apt.
[07:20] <samurai> thanks joem
[07:20] <whiprush> the problem is dozens of repos stepping on each other
[07:20] <calc> samurai: btw i wrote menu-xdg (which is what kde uses in debian)
[07:21] <calc> and aiui there are still some bugs in there somewhere, need to look into it
[07:21] <linux_mafia> whiprush, i agree, and i hate there are multiple versions of apt itself
[07:21] <whiprush> instead of one base repo that everyone builds off of, you've got 15 guys packaging totem.
[07:21] <whiprush> and they all conflict.
[07:21] <calc> maybe during one of the hack sessions at gnome summit ;)
[07:21] <samurai> I guess I find the current scheme makes it really difficult for the user to change or tweak menus
[07:21] <ranman> damn lag...
[07:21] <whiprush> and 0 guys packaging the one thing you need.
[07:21] <samurai> calc: thats cool....
[07:21] <whiprush> linux_mafia: right
[07:21] <joem> samurai, menus or the items in the menu?
[07:21] <calc> samurai: its possible to change by the user, but i think one of the issues is that my code is slightly buggy
[07:21] <linux_mafia> whiprush, and that the bloody apts install there own source list
[07:21] <whiprush> yes
[07:21] <whiprush> ATrpms
[07:21] <whiprush> the worse
[07:21] <calc> i think i hardcoded something somewhere that shouldn't have been
[07:21] <samurai> not sure what the difference is joem?
[07:21] <defendguin> whiprush, i agree totally
[07:21] <whiprush> that dude replaces stuff that should never be replaced
[07:22] <whiprush> what the heck is up with that
[07:22] <calc> one of the kde dev's posted about it a while back
[07:22] <joem> adding a new catagory or adding an app under a catagory
[07:22] <samurai> definitely the items in a menu
[07:22] <joem> gnome menu you can just right click add item
[07:22] <linux_mafia> i use dag and that was it, he seems to do a pretty good job
[07:22] <linux_mafia> *used
[07:22] <clee> dag is a fucking good packager.
[07:22] <linux_mafia> clee, amen
[07:23] <whiprush> I suppose debian is a total opposite of that, you get one nice, cohesive repo, but 15 guys arguing over how to do it right, so you end up waiting anyway.
[07:23] <clee> whiprush: heheheheh. exactly.
[07:23] <whiprush> which is probably why we're all here.
[07:23] <linux_mafia> whiprush, precisely
[07:23] <clee> whiprush: which is why Canonical is nice. :)
[07:23] <whiprush> yes.
[07:23] <samurai> joem: true...  I would kind of trust walters' packages of rb, personally...
[07:25] <calc> then package everything for it
[07:25] <joem> yea
[07:25] <calc> clee: hehe, yea :)
[07:25] <whiprush> 2 months ago I thought I'd be a debian user my entire life. Then ubuntu whipped me into shape.
[07:25] <linux_mafia> i used debian for 4+ years, then fedora for a couple of months, felt like some spit and polish, just when i was about to go back to debian, bam! ubuntu comes out, best of both worlds
[07:25] <whiprush> well, I guess I'm still a debian user in a way.
[07:25] <punkass> defendguin: u are still here :)
[07:25] <clee> heh.
[07:25] <whiprush> clee: walters rules. He's all quiet and reserved.
[07:25] <clee> whiprush: heh. until you introduce him to your mom.
[07:26] <whiprush> I snagged harshy and I was like "dude, you need to sacrifice your ipod to walters so I can get my support."
[07:26] <whiprush> he did not like this.
[07:26] <calc> clee: colin "stifler" walters? ;)
[07:26] <whiprush> yeah though, that selinux stuff was pimp. great stuff.
[07:27] <whiprush> linux_mafia: heh I was the same way.
[07:27] <clee> walters has this awesome obsession with MILFs
[07:27] <calc> hahaha
[07:27] <clee> well, I dunno if it's really MILFs or just moms of coworkers
[07:27] <clee> but he's very fond of saying "Your mama" in response to pretty much anything
[07:28] <defendguin> punkass ya
[07:28] <whiprush> linux_mafia: I have this theory with fedora and debian. Fedora gets me 80% there in 30 minutes. Debian gets me 100% there in 3 days.
[07:28] <punkass> i just wished i found ubuntu..before installing a pile of other distros...would have saved me lots o time
[07:28] <joem> "dude where is tagging support" "uh, I left it at your moms last night"
[07:28] <whiprush> ubuntu get's me 90% there in an hour.
[07:28] <clee> joem: heh. exactly.
[07:28] <calc> heh
[07:28] <clee> joem: or another conversation, where walters and clarkbw were arguing about something
[07:29] <clee> and then: <walters> clarkbw, you'd better shut up before I give you a little brother or sister
[07:29] <punkass> got a peek at those icons..pretty nice...i think was think of something with more detail tho
[07:29] <joem> haha
[07:29] <punkass> not sure :) guess ill know when i see it
[07:29] <calc> clee: heh he seemed to always be quiet when he was a DD ;)
[07:29] <clee> calc: I think we're bringing him out of his shell.
[07:30] <calc> be afraid very afraid ;)
[07:30] <whiprush> you're both so very bad peoples.
[07:30] <clee> oh, wait
[07:30] <clee> it wasn't "shut up"
[07:31] <clee> 01:43 -!- clee changed the topic of #devel to: 22:42 <walters> clarkbw: you better watch out, or i'm going to give you a little brother or sister.
[07:31] <clee> god, I love IRC logs
[07:31] <whiprush> phlaegel: tomboy working yet?
[07:31] <phlaegel> nope. just sending to the ml
[07:31] <whiprush> I feel the need to lash out about that retarded icon it's using
[07:32] <phlaegel> I like it. tintin rules.
[07:32] <phlaegel> relevance shmelavance
[07:32] <calc> clee: internal redhat irc channel?
[07:32] <whiprush> my notification area is looking all windows lately
[07:32] <clee> calc: heh. yeah.
[07:32] <phlaegel> whiprush: it's going to become an applet at some point.
[07:32] <whiprush> yeah
[07:32] <whiprush> everyone says that
[07:33] <joem> it should, it doesn't meet the notification spec
[07:33] <whiprush> clee: so wotcha work on for the hat? X?
[07:33] <defendguin> punkass i like the one with the circles and i fixed it a bit but it can still use more work
[07:34] <punkass> defendguin: cool
[07:34] <whiprush> joem: funny how nothing in my notification area ever meets that spec.
[07:34] <defendguin> punkass more detail doesnt always come out when you are making icons
[07:34] <whiprush> well, epiphany does it right
[07:34] <defendguin> because they get shrunk
[07:34] <punkass> very true
[07:34] <Walza> im wondering if anyone could help me