[00:02] <nhaines> Ooh, I didn't remember penguins.  But yeah, the jellyfish at the Long Beach Aquarium were pretty cool.
[00:03] <pleia2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6422051177/in/set-72157628199907705 penguins :D
[00:03] <darthrobot> Title: [IMG_3174 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
[00:03] <pleia2> that was a nice trip
[00:14] <nhaines> pleia2, akk: oh, you might know this.  In the story they go back out to the "pier" around dinnertime to see sea lions laying on the rocks.  Is that big there or might there be otters?
[00:15] <akk> I've never seen otters on the rocks.
[00:15] <nhaines> And then I'm going back to what I'm actually being paid for, which is line editing.  :P
[00:15] <nhaines> akk: no, they'd be floating in the ocean.
[00:15] <akk> I can't remember if the sea lions are on the rocks or mostly in the water.
[00:15] <akk> But yes, there are likely otters floating in the ocean.
[00:15] <akk> Usually they're a bit farther out, not right by the pier/restaurant/etc. like the seals are.
[00:16] <akk> But I wouldn't be surprised if you could see them from the pier; certainly it's not uncommon to see them from shore in Santa Cruz, should be at least as good in Monterey.
[00:16] <pleia2> nhaines: oh! there's a place beyond cannery row (we drove) where there were other restaurants and lots of sea lions
[00:17] <akk> Also, you might not see otters unless you knew to look for them, but you can't miss the sea lions, they're noisy.
[00:18] <pleia2> looks like Coast Guard Pier is where they often are
[00:21] <nhaines> Suuuper, thanks. :)
[00:21]  * ianorlin hasn't been to monetery
[00:22] <ianorlin> although I wonder if anyone has used linux on top of hurd peak
[00:26] <nhaines> The clear choice would be GNU/Hurd.
[00:28] <pleia2> they just did a release the other day, up to 0.6!
[00:28] <pleia2> exciting stuff ;)
[00:28] <pleia2> my first LUG meeting was on GNU/Hurd, I had just started using Linux, it's a wonder it didn't scare me off entirely
[00:29] <nhaines> ha!
[00:33] <ianorlin> but that is a real place
[00:33] <pleia2> yeah, I just got distracted with the mention of GNU/Hurd :)
[00:51] <akk> ianorlin: Or has anyone used Linux for a research project on gnus.
[00:51] <ianorlin>  /me hopefully should get dinner before meeting as I am hungry
[01:33] <nhaines> Meeting in 30!
[01:36] <pleia2> nhaines: did you ever write a blog post re: scale?
[01:37] <nhaines> pleia2: still sadly in the queue.
[01:37] <pleia2> thought so, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing it :)
[01:38] <nhaines> It *is* in the queue though.  :)
[01:38] <pleia2> did we ever get photos from anyone?
[01:39] <pleia2> there were a couple here and there on social media
[01:39] <nhaines> I don't think so.  I have booth and team photos.
[01:39] <pleia2> ok, working on backlog of team reports, so we can just update here if any turn up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/15/February
[01:39] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/15/February - Ubuntu Wiki]
[01:39] <nhaines> <3
[01:54]  * elky peers in
[01:55] <nhaines> _o/
[01:55] <ianorlin> o/
[01:55] <pleia2> o/
[01:59] <nhaines> Well, that's 80% of this editing project and 2/3rds of my dinner finished.  I guess we'll have the meeting once I can copy/paste some URLs.  :)
[02:00] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[02:00] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Apr 20 02:00:18 2015 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:00] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:00] <pleia2> o/
[02:00] <nhaines> #chair nhaines elky ianorlin
[02:00] <darthrobot> Current chairs: elky ianorlin nhaines
[02:00] <elky> \o
[02:00] <nhaines> Hi everyone, welcome to our biweekly LoCo meeting!  :)
[02:00] <nhaines> The agenda for this meeting is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15April19
[02:00] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15April19 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:01] <nhaines> A couple people have chimed in.  Is anyone else attending?
[02:02] <nhaines> Okay, so we'll discuss the only agenda item.
[02:02] <nhaines> #topic Review mailing list feedback about online meeting schedule.
[02:02] <pleia2> I was the only one who sent feedback, so I win
[02:02] <nhaines> +1
[02:03] <nhaines> I intended to reply to you but I've been working through the weekend unfortunately.  But I was glad you chimed in.
[02:03] <pleia2> so do you have any in-meeting/offlist reply now?
[02:04] <nhaines> In general, I think that the miscellaneous business can be handled better on the mailing list, and not require a meeting.
[02:04] <ianorlin> yeah as the list does seem quite quiet recently
[02:04] <elky> i'm currently trying to dinner, so i can't really type one out right now. but i find fortnightly meetings to be too much personally
[02:04] <nhaines> The mailing list goes to all active LoCo members and IRC logs don't.
[02:04] <pleia2> yeah, my concern is that we won't come up with miscellaneous business if we're not meeting
[02:04] <pleia2> people drift off
[02:04] <nhaines> So I would like to address that--preferably with a more active mailing list.
[02:05] <elky> well the only misc business is currently about empty meetings, so that probably says something
[02:05] <nhaines> Especially because it's always the same 7 or 8 people in meetings all the time.  All of whom I value but I worry about echo chambers.
[02:05] <pleia2> the no agenda meeting a few weeks back had someone reading the logs who ended up hosting the last SF Ubuntu Hour
[02:06] <ianorlin> yeah that is true but have they come to another meeting?
[02:06] <nhaines> Yes, but I got the impression he was already on the mailing list.
[02:06] <pleia2> ianorlin: they didn't come for that meeting, they read the logs
[02:06] <ianorlin> ah
[02:06] <pleia2> so people do that :)
[02:06] <nhaines> pleia2: I took your point for granted, but I was happy to see it illustrated to keenly.
[02:07] <nhaines> s/to/so/
[02:07] <pleia2> it wouldn't break my heart to move to monthly meetings, just trying to make sure all views are seen here
[02:07] <ianorlin> yeah I wish there was more attnednece to meetings as well
[02:07] <nhaines> pleia2: well, that's why I wanted feedback.  :)
[02:08] <nhaines> So the trick now is to try and figure out why there was basically no feedback.
[02:08] <elky> i already had my say in the meeting that's logged, so that mostly
[02:08] <nhaines> My suspicion, based on low meeting attendance, is that nobody was bothered enough to respond.
[02:09] <ianorlin> also I find I get quite a few emails about bugs so if people don't reply I may get lost and not respond to a nonactive thread
[02:10] <ianorlin> but that might not be a problem for less active users who we are trying to get to contribute more
[02:10] <nhaines> What about this?  What if we look at 2014 and 2015 meetings and see how many had no set agenda?
[02:11] <nhaines> If it's a significant amount, we should move to monthly meetings that are not cancelled due to lack of agenda items.
[02:11] <pleia2> wfm
[02:11] <elky> that would be a good metric
[02:11] <ianorlin> what does wfm mean?
[02:11] <nhaines> That way we lessen the administrative burden of meetings while still guaranteeing that someone doesn't accommodate a meeting that doesn't end up happening.
[02:11] <nhaines> ianorlin: "works for me"
[02:12] <ianorlin> ah that makes sense
[02:12] <pleia2> sorry :)
[02:12] <nhaines> Meetings are important but people shouldn't be waiting for meetings to make smaller announcements.  The bulk of that should either happen in channel or on list as they come up.
[02:12] <ianorlin> yeah wating for meetings doesn't work good as you could forget to bring it up
[02:13] <elky> yeah, announcements are easy to lose
[02:13] <elky> list archives are nicer and more searchable than meeting logs by far
[02:13] <pleia2> so who wants to do meeting archeology?
[02:13] <nhaines> I'm less worried about announcements being "forgotten" as opposed to people sitting on announcements and losing time for comments or collaboration.
[02:14] <nhaines> I can honestly say I probably won't manage to make the time to do meeting archeology this month.
[02:14] <elky> it's also easier to fire off a response in a thread, so there'd probably be more discussion overall
[02:15] <pleia2> me neither
[02:15] <elky> i could probably manage it
[02:15] <nhaines> elky: you can pet the cat while you scour through the logs.
[02:15] <ianorlin> I could but will be busy when until thursday with testing stuff pretty much
[02:15] <elky> (sorry, eating pizza, delayed response)
[02:16] <elky> ianorlin: don't worry about it, i'll do it
[02:16] <pleia2> thanks elky
[02:16] <nhaines> Okay.  I don't think this is super high priority and so maybe we'll get to it in a month?  May 17th?
[02:16] <elky> sounds good
[02:17] <nhaines> But if you can announce the results on list first so there's time for discussion, that'd be better than waiting for a meeting.  We can decide what to do at the meeting or codify list consensus.
[02:17] <pleia2> predictably I'll be traveling on the 17th
[02:17] <nhaines> (And we don't have to decide at the meeting--if results aren't forthcoming until then, we'll decide at the next meeting.)
[02:18] <ianorlin> nhianes +1
[02:18] <nhaines> pleia2: Let's see how it goes.  I want more information before a decision, so even if that date's a conflict, we'll make sure we get a statement from you.
[02:18] <elky> #action elky to do stats on meetings for the past few years and report to the list prior to the 17th for discussion at next meeting lyz can get to
[02:18] <darthrobot> ACTION: elky to do stats on meetings for the past few years and report to the list prior to the 17th for discussion at next meeting lyz can get to
[02:18] <elky> sound good?
[02:19] <nhaines> Which is another important reminder!  If you can't make a meeting, you can always chime in on the list in the days beforehand and we'll mention your opinion in the meeting!
[02:19] <pleia2> sounds good
[02:19] <nhaines> TIL 1.3 years == "a few"
[02:19] <nhaines> More data is better though.  ;)
[02:19] <nhaines> Okay, thanks, elky.  Any other comments before we move on?
[02:19] <elky> nope
[02:20] <nhaines> #topic Other business
[02:20] <nhaines> Okay, that's the end of our agenda items today.
[02:20] <pleia2> there weren't any team reports for this year, so I made them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports
[02:20] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:21] <nhaines> \o/
[02:21] <pleia2> please feel free to add to them if needed, particularly if you have some more info from scale
[02:21] <nhaines> Yeah, I really do need to gather my photos.
[02:21] <pleia2> I linked mhall119's blog post, but that's it really
[02:22] <ianorlin> oops I haven't used uploaded pictures still
[02:22] <nhaines> pleia2: thank you so much for compiling those reports!
[02:22] <pleia2> sure thing
[02:22] <nhaines> Ubuntu 15.04 will be released on Thursday, the 23rd.
[02:22] <pleia2> I also wanted to mention, I still have the keys to twitter, g+ and facebook, and I try to keep them updated with events and meeting announcements and things, but I could always use help if anyone is interested
[02:22]  * ianorlin has key to Google+
[02:23] <pleia2> ianorlin: feel free to pitch in!
[02:23] <nhaines> I'm trying to start using my Twitter feed more, especially since it's linked to my Amazon Author Page.  But social media is hard for me.  :P
[02:23] <pleia2> it was kind of fun keeping them updated during scale since I wasn't there, but mostly it's kind of a tedious exercise
[02:24] <nhaines> I can see the recruitment posters now.  "Does tedium excite you?"
[02:24] <pleia2> seems unlikely that we'll have any release event in san francisco, even informal
[02:24] <pleia2> nhaines: I sure know how to sell it!
[02:25] <nhaines> :D
[02:25] <nhaines> vivid is a revolutionary cycle.
[02:25] <nhaines> Unfortunately, it's all under the covers.  :)
[02:25] <pleia2> systemd is scary :D
[02:25] <pleia2> should be interesting
[02:25] <nhaines> I've heard a lot of people happier with much faster boot times.  And the phone is looking marvelous.
[02:25] <nhaines> I rather enjoy using my tablet with vivid.
[02:26] <nhaines> And in the 'w' cycle, hopefully XMir will land and then you can throw desktop apps in a click package or chroot jail and run them on your phone or tablet.  It won't be pretty until the next LTS cycle but it will be feasible.
[02:27] <nhaines> I haven't heard of any solid release party plans down south either.
[02:28] <nhaines> Well, it's still not too late!  Release parties are quite often the weekend after or even a week after, so if you want to run a party and act fast you can still get in on the fun!
[02:28] <nhaines> It can be as simple as gathering at a coffee shop or a restaurant to talk about Ubuntu.
[02:29] <ianorlin> it doesn't matter much to an end user
[02:29] <nhaines> We want to hear about it on the mailing list and on the LoCo directory at loco.ubuntu.com!
[02:30] <nhaines> I have a little bit of swag to pass out so if your in the SoCal area and have something planned let me know.  I have one Official Ubuntu Book left.
[02:30] <nhaines> Okay, is there any other business before us before we wrap it up?
[02:30] <pleia2> same goes for here, if anyone wants to do anything in SF or nearby, I can give some goodies
[02:30] <pleia2> I'm just overwhelmed event-wise right now, so I can't do it
[02:30] <nhaines> pleia2: +1
[02:32] <nhaines> Okay, in that case, I think we're done for this week.
[02:32] <nhaines> I've been running vivid for a month now and it's super great!
[02:32] <pleia2> yay :)
[02:32] <ianorlin> I also found an interesting confence in portland
[02:32] <nhaines> So 15.04 should be nice and reliable, and LibreOffice 4.4 is very lovely.
[02:32] <nhaines> We've plenty to be excited about even if it "seems" quiet on the Ubuntu front.
[02:33]  * ianorlin has been binge watching presentations from open source bridge
[02:33] <nhaines> Our next meeting will be held on Sunday, May 3rd at 7pm.
[02:33] <nhaines> Hope to see everyone there!
[02:33] <nhaines> Thanks every for coming tonight.
[02:33] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[02:33] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Apr 20 02:33:49 2015 UTC.
[02:33] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2015/ubuntu-us-ca.2015-04-20-02.00.moin.txt
[02:33]  * pleia2 seeks dinner


[02:15] <Unit193> bluesabre: Nice!
[02:15] <bluesabre> Slowly but surely
[04:09] <Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/slick-greeter_1.0.3-1.html
[06:04] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
[06:24] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
[23:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: Have you looked into how xfce4-indicator-plugin now works?
[23:39] <bluesabre> Unit193: I have not, why do you ask?
[23:43] <Unit193> I had to recently, it's...Hardcoded to only work with indicator-application, indicator-bluetooth, indicator-datetime, indicator-keyboard, indicator-messages, indicator-power, indicator-printers, indicator-session, and indicator-sound.  While that lists most/all in the repo, none external and hardcoding isn't very future proof. :/
[23:44] <Unit193> s@all/most@some@
[23:44] <bluesabre> oh wow
[23:45] <Unit193> /usr/lib/systemd/user/xfce4-indicator-plugin.target
[23:47] <Unit193> (apt-cache show indicator-<tab><tab><tab>)
[23:48] <Unit193> bluesabre: I presume you've noticed the artica-* stuff?
[23:48] <bluesabre> artica?
[23:49] <Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ayatana-ido_0.4.0-1.html, https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libayatana-indicator_0.6.0-1.html, https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libayatana-appindicator_0.5.0-1.html
[23:55] <bluesabre> hmmm
[23:56] <Unit193> This is just FYI, no action needed.
[23:56] <Unit193> Sadly they're not drop-in, you have to change headers, but otherwise...
[23:57] <bluesabre> Right, interesting to see some movement though
[23:58] <Unit193> I'd, err, pasted the NEW links in -ot. :P
[23:59] <Unit193> Arctica is...Somewhat MATE related, strips out the Ubuntu/Canonical specific bits, but in theory should work for xfce4-indicator-plugin too.


[05:40] <DrZoot> inc|freaky: yeah i thought it was something like that
[05:40] <apokryphos> s/disabled/scrambled/ ;-)
[05:40] <arcanistherogue> does anyone here know how to mount a windows formatted ipod in linux?
[05:41] <nikkia> apokryphos: it is actually disabled
[05:41] <gdh> arcanistherogue: does amaroK or JuK not deal with iPods directly?
[05:41] <nikkia> apokryphos: the password stored is impossible to achieve thru the crypt, which is what 'passwd' defines as a disabled password
[05:41] <DrZoot> i briefly tried ubuntu a while back ( im a fairly died in the wool debian user ) and didnt like it ( mainly because of gnome ) but im thinking of giving it a second try, so im trying to remember all of the things i did / didnt like about it
[05:41] <GeneralZod> Hi all - I was just wondering if anyone using Breezy could test quickly whether my pet bug has been fixed at all? It seems to have fallen through the cracks :( http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106394
[05:41] <arcanistherogue> gdh:  i dont want to use those.  my sister uses my computer to put music on her ipod, and i dont want to have to add all of her crappy music to my libraries >_<
[05:42] <gdh> haha :)
[05:46] <nalioth> arcanistherogue comes back, tell him to give his sister here own account
[05:46] <nalioth> an account of her own
[05:48] <douglas> Where is kde installed in kubuntu?
[05:49] <DrZoot> does kubuntu support software suspend?
[05:49] <douglas> What do you mean?
[05:50] <DrZoot> if i install kubuntu on a laptop and then close the lid will it suspend? i know that software suspend is not included by default in the kernel
[05:51] <douglas> ummm... I don't think it's supported by default, but you can check out various things like kpowersave!
[05:53] <cddesjar> how do i add keys in Kubuntu?
[05:53] <cddesjar> i.e. Release.gpg
[05:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> um. add?
[06:05] <kkathman> hi all :)
[06:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
[06:07] <Tm_T> yu
[06:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
[06:08] <Tm_T> what's up
[06:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> playing gnometris, listening to some mp3s. then im off :)
[06:10] <cddesjar> hi
[06:10] <cddesjar> i don't notice much difference between 3.5 and 3.4.2
[06:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> *shrug*
[06:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> sure your on 3.5?
[06:11] <cddesjar> yup 3.5 beta
[06:12] <cddesjar> i mean the splash screen looks different and kdm
[06:14] <Tm_T> what kind of differences youexpect?
[06:14] <cddesjar> i don't know
[06:14] <Tm_T> :p
[06:15] <gdh> "doesn't suck" would be good :)
[06:15] <Tm_T> well, firstly, check your panel menu ;)

[06:15] <Tm_T> gdh: =)
[06:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> ;)
[06:18] <mr_roboto> if i want to upgrade from hoary to breezy, is it as simple as changing "hoary" to "breezy" in sources.list, then update and dist-upgrade?
[06:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes
[06:18] <mr_roboto> any weirdness to watch out for?
[06:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> and lots of saying 'y' to questions about xorg configs
[06:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. not as such. just be warned about the xorg options, pretty much a 'y' for every keyboard type installed
[06:21] <mr_roboto> ok thanks.   i haven't dug into it yet but hoary just refuses to suspend or hibernate on my dell inspiron 8200 laptop (ati binary driver). it won't come back (hibernate gives garbled screen, suspend "works" but screen is off!)   hoping breezy might magically fix it
[06:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> check if any of the laptop testers have yhour laptop
[06:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> if tehy do you can check the wiki entries for details
[06:22] <mr_roboto> ahhh, ok.  well i'll try the update anyway since it's not my primary machine. i'll let my desktop kubuntu be for now :)
[06:22] <mr_roboto> thanks for the tip
[06:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> thats ok :)
[06:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> gives me a reason not to go to sleep
[06:23] <mr_roboto> haha
[06:23] <mr_roboto> sleep is overrated
[06:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. yeh
[06:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> and summers going to be here soon :( so it wont be easy to sleep, and i wont be able to run comptuers a lot as well :(
[06:24] <mr_roboto> soon? southern hemisphere i take it :)    winter is approaching here in Chicago
[06:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, australia here
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> south australia (central aust, bottom half)
[06:25] <mr_roboto> computers like air conditioning :)
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, but none in my shed (where i am with the computers)
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> all i have is a window and insulation
[06:31] <mr_roboto> Kamping_Kaiser: can you tell me what the first line of my sources.list should be?
[06:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> the cd line?
[06:32] <mr_roboto> yes
[06:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> #deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.04 _Hoary Hedgehog_ - Release i386 (20050407)] / hoary main restricted
[06:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> i think thats it...
[06:32] <mr_roboto> even if i switch to breezy?
[06:32] <mr_roboto> the apt-get update complained
[06:33] <mr_roboto> hmmm says i need to use apt-cdrom
[06:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> not sure for the breezy cd line. run 'sudo apt-cdrom'
[06:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[06:33] <mr_roboto> haha
[06:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh.
[06:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> what is the breezy cd line?
[06:33] <mr_roboto> i have no cdrom
[06:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, right :/
[06:34] <mr_roboto> you mean i need to burn a cd?
[06:34] <mr_roboto> i can't just upgrade online?
[06:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> do you want to update fromthe net?
[06:34] <mr_roboto> yes
[06:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, just comment out the first line
[06:34] <mr_roboto> ahhh
[06:34] <mr_roboto> ok
[06:34] <mr_roboto> still kind of a noob at atp
[06:34] <mr_roboto> apt
[06:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> nah, all good
[06:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> i wont scare you with my sources list i showed someone before then ;)
[06:35] <mr_roboto> ok, here goes nothing!   (laptop upgrading now)
[06:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> downgrading?
[06:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah upgrading
[06:35] <mr_roboto> hoary to breezy
[06:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> i read that downgrading :S
[06:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> wtf. good luck :)
[06:36] <mr_roboto> gotta love that "Need to get 668MB of archives."
[06:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> '2mb extra used'
[06:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh ;)
[06:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> in your sources list you should have at least 6 lines, one for breezy, breezy-updates, breezy-security, and the source versions of each
[06:39] <mr_roboto> yep, more with restricted and multiverse
[06:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh.
[06:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> hang on, im doing a line couunt on mine
[06:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> 268 lines including comments
[06:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> (copious amounts of comments)
[06:40] <mr_roboto> jesus
[06:40] <mr_roboto> :)
[06:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> :D
[06:41] <mr_roboto> 27 lines... I feel... inferior!
[06:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> lmao
[06:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> well its my uber sources list (fair bit of E penis involved)
[06:41] <mr_roboto> lol
[06:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[06:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. 27 lines
[06:41] <mr_roboto> it's all how you USE those sources, my friend
[06:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> LMAO
[06:42] <gdh> indeed, one could go for extra kudos points by having only a 1-line sources.list, but point it at a server on the LAN whcih centrally manages an apt-proxy and pushes out custom packages, etc. :)
[06:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> i use about 1-> 2 dozen lines of it at any one time
[06:43] <whoiam> ubotu: want to know, what If I copy my /boot/config-* file as config file under kernel source. is this config file is configuration of my current kernel structure ?
[06:43] <ubotu> whoiam: what are you talking about?
[06:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> my active soruces list points at my proxy, but thats small ;)
[06:43] <whoiam> gdh: want to know, what If I copy my /boot/config-* file as config file under kernel source. is this config file is configuration of my current kernel structure ?
[06:43] <mr_roboto> gdh: that's a good one :)
[06:43] <spiral> hi
[06:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi spiral
[06:44] <gdh> whoiam: Yes. if you copy it to /usr/src/sourcedir/.config .. then 'make menuconfig' will use that as the basis for selections.
[06:44] <gdh> whoiam: Since everything is built as a module already, there are only few situations which would need the kernel to be rebuilt...
[06:44] <whoiam> gdh: cool, I think it's a good idea to simply remove unwanted things from kernel with breaking system
[06:45] <gdh> whoiam: Hmm, I trust the kernel packagers - they know much more about it than I do. :)
[06:45] <whoiam> :) actually you know what I was looking for so you are the kernel packagers for me :D
[06:46] <gdh> :)
[06:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. *tries to think of things to do at this time of day*
[06:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh yeh, ts teh 3rd here already :O
[06:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> *its the
[06:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> !pastebin
[06:50] <ubotu> I guess pastebin is a site where you can post large texts and screenshots so you don't flood the channel. You can find it at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl
[06:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> !wtf
[06:51] <ubotu> wtf are you talking about, kamping_kaiser ?
[06:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[06:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> small things amuse small minds....
[06:53] <brosio> i've install mysql-server it is running, but the port of server isn't open! what could be ?
[06:54] <konnoryuu> anyone here?
[06:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> brosio: do you mean not open to the network, or not open at all?
[06:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi konnoryuu
[06:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> a few ppl
[06:54] <konnoryuu> oh ok, hi
[06:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> on and off
[06:56] <JakubS> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
[06:56] <JakubS> i'm getting this during apt-get update
[06:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> you have disc space free?
[06:57] <charles> i was wondering if someone could tell me waht all i need to go up change my kernal from i386 to i686 with SMP...do i just insall the i686 packages and leave the 386 stuff installed?
[06:58] <JakubS> Kamping_Kaiser: i have 1.4GB free
[06:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> charles: sudo apt-get install linux-image-686-smp iirc
[06:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> JakubS: ok. its not that then :/
[06:59] <konnoryuu> every time I have to enter my pass to do something, it says "conversation with su failed"
[06:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> can yhou give any more error JakubS? pastebin it?
[06:59] <Tm_T> JakubS: hullo
[06:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> konnoryuu: using the kontroll center thing?
[06:59] <JakubS> ok
[06:59] <konnoryuu> what's that? >_>
[06:59] <JakubS> hey Tm_T
[07:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> konnoryuu: what things didnt like your password?
[07:00] <konnoryuu> i try to configure the clock it doesnt work
[07:00] <konnoryuu> thats all i tried so far
[07:01] <konnoryuu> i mean change the date/time
[07:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh.
[07:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> unless its the problem that kde had with its centrall controll doover (i forget what its called), i dont know about it
[07:02] <konnoryuu> what was the problem?
[07:02] <JakubS> Kamping_Kaiser: http://pastebin.com/380678
[07:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> when the user clicked 'administrator' it didnt accpet the password
[07:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> you have to launch it with sudo from a terminal
[07:03] <konnoryuu> sudo?
[07:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> JakubS: wtf? how many distros have you got sources lists for?
[07:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> konnoryuu: what you use in kubuntu instead of su
[07:04] <JakubS> debian and kubuntu, and small additional repos
[07:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> try sticking to ubuntu repos during your dist-upgrades
[07:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. < doesnt look pretty
[07:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> however, im going to bed. sorry folks
[07:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> its time :S
[07:07] <JakubS> bye then
[07:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> later all
[07:12] <PiRX[lv] > can anyone tell me, what is this error: Package <packagename> is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[07:12] <PiRX[lv] > it happens with different packages
[07:13] <PiRX[lv] > when trying to apt-get install <packagename>
[07:13] <gdh> PiRX[lv] : Usually means you don't have all repositories enabled.
[07:13] <PiRX[lv] > hmm, double checked
[07:13] <PiRX[lv] > main restricted and universe
[07:13] <gdh> you have universe + multiverse?
[07:14] <PiRX[lv] > i have no multiverse
[07:14] <PiRX[lv] > just universe
[07:15] <gdh> can you give some samples of <packagename> ?
[07:15] <PiRX[lv] > mysql-doc
[07:15] <PiRX[lv] > irssi
[07:15] <gdh> hrm, shouldn't be any issues with those.
[07:15] <gdh> mind, there is no 'irssi' package.. just 'irssi-text' :)
[07:16] <PiRX[lv] > :)
[07:16] <PiRX[lv] > ok, irssi-text worked fine for me
[07:16] <PiRX[lv] > thnx gdh
[07:16] <gdh> no mysql-doc either ..
[07:16] <gdh> 'apt-cache search' is your friend :)
[07:17] <PiRX[lv] > funny - when i installed mysql-server, apt-get suggested mysql-doc package :)
[07:17] <gdh> ha :)
[07:32] <nic> servus
[07:32] <skaman> hi guys
[07:32] <nic> hat hier irgendjemand ahnung was acpi angeht?
[07:32] <skaman> anyone using kdetv & breezy?
[07:38] <ubuntu> bonjour  tous
[07:38] <apokryphos> !fr
[07:38] <ubotu> I guess fr is Va a #ubuntu-fr pour aide et discussion en francais
[07:39] <ubuntu> sorry, habit :-)
[07:39] <ubuntu> hello
[07:39] <rikva> !de
[07:39] <ubotu> [de]  #ubuntu-de bitte.
[07:39] <apokryphos> hi
[07:39] <ubuntu> I have just rebooted from the kubuntu livecd
[07:39] <ubuntu> the  keyboard detection doesn't work as expected, where can I wrote a bugreport ?
[07:40] <apokryphos> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[07:40] <nic> i've installed kubuntu, how can i look which kernel i have ?
[07:40] <ubuntu> nic: uname -a
[07:41] <ubuntu> under a xterm
[07:41] <nic> Linux nic-nb 2.6.10-5-386 #1 Fri Sep 23 14:13:55 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
[07:41] <ubuntu> apokryphos: thank you
[07:41] <nic> but which kernel is it?
[07:41] <nic> vanilla or what?
[07:42] <ubuntu> I don't know what vanilla is
[07:42] <nic> which is the standart kernel ?
[07:44] <twinoatl> apokryphos: do you know what is the name of the "keyboard detection detection by typing" package ?
[07:44] <apokryphos> nope, sorry
[07:45] <twinoatl> thanks
[07:57] <mcp_dk> hey
[07:58] <mcp_dk> can anybody recommend a good program to resize images preferrably multipla images at once
[08:02] <skaman> anyone using kdetv & breezy?
[08:04] <McScruff> lo
[08:04] <whoiam> I'm compiling my kernel, I can see lot's of CC [M]   fs/lockd/svc4proc.o and LD [M]   fs/lockd/lockd.o lines scrolling on my screen now. what is the LD[M]  and CC[M]  means
[08:04] <McScruff> is there a way to use my wireless net card for vmware?
[08:05] <gdh> whoiam: You get lots of CC (compile) then a LD (link) for each section of the kernel...
[08:05] <whoiam> gdh: and what is the [M]  thing ?
[08:05] <gdh> the LD links all the previously CC'd bits together to one larger piece.. and then finally all the larger pieces get linked together to form the final kernel image :)
[08:06] <gdh> Module, I expect.
[08:07] <whoiam> hmm
[08:35] <hussam> I'm trying to clean up my kubuntu system. I found those packages that are not dependancies of other package
[08:35] <hussam> are these packages safe to remove? texinfo texi2html python2.4-numarray lapack3
[08:43] <skaman> hey guys
[08:43] <skaman> anybody knows how to let kdetv run?
[08:45] <rikva> skaman: Sorry I can't help you with that, but did you try tvtime?  I recommend it above kdetv
[08:46] <skaman> i'll try
[08:46] <skaman> thnx rikva...kdetv seems to dont work with breezy
[08:46] <rikva> ah, np
[08:47] <skaman> needs some repositoriesthat are uninstallable
[08:50] <skaman> tvtime works
[08:50] <skaman> now i set it up thnx ;)
[09:15] <skaman> any help how to cfg tvtime?
[09:15] <skaman> i see video but hear no audio
[09:16] <skaman> solved
[09:16] <skaman> ..
[09:27] <JuanMamon> wenas
[09:44] <nic> anybody here who can help me with getting acpi work
[09:45] <kalenedrael> I can try.
[09:45] <kalenedrael> What's the problem?
[09:45] <nic> my system doesn't shut down
[09:46] <nic> i tried to add acpi=force to grub, but that doesn't help
[09:47] <kalenedrael> Uhm, hmm.
[09:47] <kalenedrael> It doesn't shut down?
[09:47] <nic> the dsdt was recompiled with no failures
[09:47] <kalenedrael> There are certain computers that don't like acpi, period. I have one computer which has never been able to shut down by itself.
[09:47] <nic> yes, it doesn't turn off
[09:47] <kalenedrael> Even in Windows...
[09:47] <nic> in suse it works
[09:48] <kalenedrael> And three linux distros, with different kernels...
[09:48] <kalenedrael> I dunno, then. I suspect it's a problem in the kernel.
[09:48] <iceman> is this the developer channel?
[09:52] <iceman> any coders here with ideas of distributed networking,,
[09:53] <mr_roboto> iceman: yes
[09:53] <iceman> looking at doing a set of tools to manage updates in an enterprise setup
[09:53] <iceman> mr_roboto: any idea if anyone is working on something like this?
[09:54] <iceman> the idea is to have a server daemon where the new updates/ or software resides, or is downloaded.
[09:54] <mr_roboto> iceman: sorry. no idea. if you're looking for open source, have you searched sourceforge? you mean something generic that will push updates out to clients?
[09:55] <iceman> then i can say for eg push install OO to all clients or a group of clients, thus the client software ensures the software is installed and reports on success
[09:56] <mr_roboto> not sure what there is in the open source world. our company uses Novell Zenworks for that purpose
[09:57] <iceman> hmm.. hadn't looked much at that product.
[09:58] <iceman> would anyone be able to help/assit do an opensource ubuntu/kubuntu app?
[09:58] <mr_roboto> iceman: you looking to support multiple client platforms?
[09:59] <iceman> 32/64, alpha, etc..
[10:00] <mr_roboto> what about OS though?
[10:00] <iceman> it should be simple cause the server app, knows the registered clients and platforms thus apt-gets the coresponding deps when u request an app
[10:00] <mr_roboto> so you mean all linux clients?
[10:00] <iceman> then once downloaded, at a convinient time, installs it to the clients
[10:02] <iceman> you can have multiple profiles where updates are automagicaly installed to all clients, and new apps are on damand or push basis
[10:02] <iceman> this would help in the enterprise
[10:03] <iceman> mr_roboto: getting the idea?
[10:03] <mr_roboto> iceman: got the idea, just wondering what you intend to support. only linux clients?
[10:03] <iceman> linux clients and servers, ubuntu/kubuntu once only though...
[10:04] <iceman> mr_robot: linux clients and servers, ubuntu/kubuntu once only though...
[10:04] <iceman> mr_roboto:linux clients and servers, ubuntu/kubuntu ones only though..
[10:05] <mr_roboto> iceman: what does "once only" mean?
[10:05] <mr_roboto> iceman: don't do any updates after getting a new program?
[10:07] <iceman> mr_roboto: well, that will be up to the administrator, the idea is to load a DEB on to the server and have a console (PHP maybe) where you can push install the app to clients, even if theyre off at the time. when they boot, theyll pick it up and notify the user that a new app has been installed or an update
[10:08] <mr_roboto> iceman: sounds like a some kind of wrapper around apt-get that has some policy associated with it
[10:09] <iceman> mr_roboto: THATS RIGHT!
[10:09] <mr_roboto> iceman: ok, well no idea if it's been done already (in the OSS world i mean)
[10:09] <iceman> mr_roboto: dont want anything fancy, it has to use apt for package management, just need to have a central archive store and a policy for installtions
[10:10] <iceman> mr_roboto: do u know if its worthwile and who might be interested?
[10:11] <mr_roboto> iceman: could be useful, don't know if it's been done and don't know who would be interested.   sorry :)
[10:14] <iceman> its ok, just didnt want to redesign the wheel...
[10:16] <iceman> mr_roboto: thanx for the chat ciao
[10:17] <mr_roboto> iceman: cya
[10:33] <dinwath> hi everyone
[10:33] <dinwath> someone knows a way to install cervisia in kubuntu breezy?
[10:34] <mornfall> dinwath: tried apt-get install cervisia? :)
[10:35] <mornfall> dinwath: or run adept, type in "cervisia" into the quick search box and rightclick on cervisia pack and select install, then preview changes and commit
[10:35] <dinwath> mornfall: no, i'm pretty new at debian based distros
[10:36] <dinwath> mornfall: i'm using kynaptic, wouuld it work as well?
[10:36] <mornfall> dinwath: try adept instead, kynaptic is deprecated ;-)
[10:37] <dinwath> :O
[10:39] <dinwath> mornfall: uhmm, should I add the universe repository to my apt sources to find cervisia?
[10:39] <mornfall> dinwath: it's in universe
[10:39] <mornfall> dinwath: if you don't have universe, then yes, you should
[10:39] <mornfall> (and no, you can't do that in kynaptic)
[10:40] <mornfall> either text editor on /etc/apt/sources.list or adept
[10:40] <mornfall> (or synaptic, but let's forget that for now :-))
[10:40] <dinwath> mornfall: yes I'm uncommenting the lines in /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:41] <dinwath> mornfall: ok now it founds cervisia, thanks alot! (And I'm installing adept too :) )
[10:42] <mornfall> good, good :-)
[10:42] <dell500> can someone help me, a documents folder i had has gone missing from switching from kde to gnome, and now it's gone
[10:43] <PeerSoft> question..
[10:43] <PeerSoft> to do a dual boot..
[10:43] <mornfall> dell500: look into your home
[10:43] <PeerSoft> should I install kubuntu first
[10:43] <mornfall> dell500: or just don't use gnome! ;-)
[10:43] <PeerSoft> or Windows XP
[10:43] <PeerSoft> and make the partitions
[10:44] <mornfall> PeerSoft: windows tends to take over bootsector without letting you boot back into linux
[10:44] <PeerSoft> so should I install nix first then?
[10:44] <dell500> mornfall, it's not there, for some reason it got deleted, i have no idea how though
[10:44] <dell500> i didn't do anything with it
[10:44] <_chavo> PeerSoft, windows first, then linux
[10:44] <mornfall> dell500: deleted? uh-h
[10:45] <dinwath> PeerSoft: no install windowsXP and then linux
[10:45] <PeerSoft> okay.
[10:45] <PeerSoft> i should be able to do this w/ ease then
[10:45] <PeerSoft> if I get stuck -  get on windows and ask
[10:45] <PeerSoft> ;x
[10:45] <PeerSoft> so i guess ill be back inna jippy?
[10:45] <PeerSoft> ;x
[10:45] <PeerSoft> ttyl
[10:45] <mornfall> easy, don't get stuck :-)
[10:45] <dell500> mornfall, it just vanished, the other folders i have on my desktop are still there
[10:45] <PeerSoft> lol. sure thing
[10:45] <PeerSoft> ttyl
[10:46] <mornfall> dell500: maybe it starts with a dot? tried getting back to kde and looking if it shows it?
[10:46] <dell500> mornfall, ya i'm in kde
[10:46] <mornfall> okey, that's pretty interesting then :)
[10:47] <mornfall> morale of the story: don't switch to gnome
[10:47] <Jeevan> anyone know of a good usb microphone that works well in linux?
[10:47] <dinwath> maybe it is in your home under .kde...
[10:47] <mornfall> dinwath: how would it get there?
[10:48] <dell500> is there a new distro of ubuntu out?
[10:48] <mornfall> dell500: cd $HOME; find -iname \*significant-part-of-the-name\*
[10:48] <evian> I can't get skype to work in ubuntu, although it did work in mandrake with both gnome and KDE. Would it be likely to work in kubuntu?
[10:48] <dell500> what is that suppose to do, find the folder?
[10:48] <mornfall> evian: it would be more likely to if it would have worked in ubuntu :)
[10:48] <evian> mornfall, heh ok
[10:48] <mornfall> dell500: it'll print out everything that has that name
[10:49] <mornfall> dell500: so if the folder has still the same name, it should find it
[10:49] <mornfall> dell500: (run it in a konsole, obviously)
[10:49] <dell500> ya, it didnt' find it
[10:49] <dell500> man, that's so bunk
[10:49] <dell500> i have to make a new resume and shit
[10:50] <dell500> and copy my paper over again
[10:50] <dell500> christ
[10:50] <teprrr> hmm, anyone knows why all gtk menus have black background color with black text? :P
[10:50] <teprrr> and breezy is what I've got here
[10:50] <Tm_T> :o
[10:50] <mornfall> teprrr: gtk2-engine-gtk-qt?
[10:51] <Tm_T> teprrr: n00b! go home! ;--P
[10:51] <mornfall> (if yes, get rid of it, it's more of a nuisance than anything else
[10:51] <Tm_T> :p
[10:52] <Tm_T> teprrr: yu, try another gtk engine
[10:52] <teprrr> mornfall, gtk-qt-engine-0.6 that's what I have.. installed manually
[10:52] <_chavo> teprrr, that bug has been fixed, there's a patch out there
[10:52] <mornfall> teprrr: also, get rid of gtk, that'll help you lead a happy life
[10:52] <Tm_T> mornfall: I bet teprrr knows ;)
[10:52] <mornfall> teprrr: sounds like the culprit
[10:53] <teprrr> mornfall, hah, I don't have any use of gtk apps actually.. sometimes very rarely I need to use firefox though :P
[10:54] <teprrr> and now I want to test if liferea beats shit out off akregator
[10:54] <teprrr> _chavo, hmm.
[10:54] <_chavo> teprrr, let me see if I can find the patch
[10:54] <teprrr> mornfall, culprit?
[10:54] <mornfall> teprrr: probably doesn't, but try :)
[10:54] <mornfall> |dict culprit
[10:54] <brosio> anyone have install a printer ?
[10:54] <duskbot> mornfall: wn, gcide, and bouvier responded: wn: culprit n : someone who perpetrates wrongdoing [syn: {perpetrator}] ; bouvier: CULPRIT, crim. law. When a prisoner is arraigned, and he pleads not guilty, in the English practice, the clerk, who arraigns him on behalf of the crown, replies that the prisoner is guilty, and that he is ready to prove the accusation; this is done by two monosyllables, cul (2 more messages)
[10:54] <brosio> i could print with
[10:54] <teprrr> _chavo, looks like I have newest package from fd.o
[10:55] <brosio> cat hello > /dev/usb/lp0
[10:55] <_chavo> teprrr, the patch is from Suse
[10:55] <brosio> but not with cups
[10:55] <teprrr> _chavo, oh. why it hasn't made it into upstream?
[10:55] <teprrr> |dict perpetrate
[10:55] <duskbot> teprrr: wn, gcide, and moby-thes responded: wn: perpetrate v : perform an act, usually with a negative connotation; "perpetrate a crime"; "pull a bank robbery" [syn: {commit}, {pull}] ; moby-thes: 27 Moby Thesaurus words for "perpetrate": accomplish, achieve, be responsible for, bring about, bring off, bring to pass, carry out, carry through, commit, do, do to, effect, effectuate, execute, go and do, (2 more messages)
[10:55] <_chavo> teprrr, it will
[10:55] <teprrr> :)
[10:55] <teprrr> _chavo, oh. okay.
[10:57] <douglas> so I've decided that it's not a good idea to use arts in kde when I want to play games, does anyone reccomend not using arts?
[10:57] <mornfall> --> film
[10:57] <mornfall> laters
[10:58] <douglas> aye
[10:58] <_chavo> teprrr, hold on a sec I'll just upload the patch
[10:58] <dell500> how do you copy more than one folder to another folder, what's the syntax for like 2 folders
[10:58] <dell500> sudo cp ~/blah, ~/blah2  /backup/blah, /backup/blah2 ?
[11:00] <_chavo> sudo cp ~/blah /backup/blah && sudo cp ~/blh2 /backup/blah2
[11:00] <_chavo> has to be 2 commands
[11:00] <dell500> kool
[11:00] <dell500> that's nice
[11:01] <_chavo> dell500, when you use "&&" between commands it will only do the second command if the first one finishes succesfully
[11:01] <douglas> Is the nforce4 chipset supported by the latest kernel versions?
[11:01] <dinwath> dell500: if they are numbered like your example, i suggest "for" bash builtincommand
[11:01] <_chavo> you can also use ; between them
[11:01] <_chavo> then it will do the 2nd command even if first one fails
[11:02] <_chavo> teprrr, http://2sdw.com/gtk-qt-engine_0.6cvs20050229-9_i386.tar.gz that is the whole Suse source rpm, extracted and tarred. It has the patches inside.
[11:02] <teprrr> _chavo, okay. thanks
[11:02] <_chavo> no problem
[11:03] <teprrr> _chavo, colormapless patch or?
[11:03] <dell500> what are the flags for recursive and to show what's going on?
[11:03] <_chavo> there's 3 patches in there, I just used all 3
[11:03] <dell500> like -ru ??
[11:04] <teprrr> dell500, for which program?
[11:04] <_chavo> dell500, cp -rv
[11:04] <teprrr> dell500, check man <program>
[11:04] <teprrr> ah, cp..
[11:04] <_chavo> r is recursive, v is verbose
[11:05] <teprrr> _chavo, ah, yes, colormapless patch fixed it.. thanks :)
[11:06] <_chavo> no problem
[11:06] <_chavo> riddell know about the patch, but I don't know why he hasn't added it yet
[11:07] <teprrr> mmkay, he's the maintainer of gtk-qt?
[11:07] <dell500> thanks
[11:08] <dell500> is there another command to show the accual progression of the file being copied, like a progress bar
[11:08] <_chavo> well he's maintainer of KDE and I helped him find the patch and confirm it worked
[11:08] <_chavo> dell500, you could write a script, or just use konq
[11:09] <dell500> ok, thanks
[11:10] <_chavo> but it would be slow with shell script,
[11:10] <_chavo> someone may have written one though
[11:10] <teprrr> yup, I know he's a kde developer, but don't know if he has connection to gtk-qt
[11:10] <teprrr> but well, works fine here anyway :)
[11:11] <teprrr> I saw some cp script which shows colorful progressbar .)
[11:12] <_chavo> yeah I don't know if he's maintainer or just helping out with that
[11:14] <douglas> Does anyone know of a good setup tutorial for dmix with kubuntu?
[11:17] <brosio> anyone print with a HP deskjet ?
[11:23] <Riddell> _chavo: what's that?
[11:24] <_chavo>  what's what?
[11:24] <Tm_T> =)
[11:24] <_chavo> Oh we were discussing the gtk-qt patch from Suser
[11:24] <Riddell> _chavo: the patch is in
[11:25] <Riddell> what version of gtk2-engines-gtk-qt do you have installed?
[11:25] <Riddell> apt-cache policy gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[11:25] <_chavo> teprrr, was building from source, and I was pointing it out to him
[11:25] <teprrr> 0.6 had I, and it didn't work
[11:25] <teprrr> from fd.o directly
[11:25] <_chavo> I build my own also
[11:26] <Riddell> teprrr: 0.60-1ubuntu5 in breezy has the patch
[11:26] <Riddell> and I opened a report on their bugzilla
[11:26] <Riddell> but no response
[11:26] <teprrr> well, I patched it already and it works now :9
[11:27] <teprrr> but thanks, I'll be start using kubuntu kde when 3.5 gets released :)
[11:27] <_chavo> doesn't look like gtk-qt engine has been very active
[11:35] <dinwath> goodbye ttto all, thank for the help! cya!
[11:49] <nic> hi
[11:49] <nic> can anybody help me with acpi


[18:27] <ArtGravity> The recent thunderbird-next update seems to have removed Unity menu integration.
[18:27] <ArtGravity> thunderbird:amd64/trusty 1:52.0~b3+build1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> uptodate
[18:28] <ArtGravity> Is this something that the Ubuntu Mozilla Team knows about, or should I submit a bug on Launchpad?


[00:00] <airurando> no ouch is correct, not a relief.
[00:00] <moylan1> getting by.  quiet over crimbo.  may have bricked my ebook but i still have a small amount of hope i can fix it
[00:00] <airurando> oh dear
[00:00] <airurando> hope it works out for you
[00:01] <moylan1> fingers crossed.  it's a nice linux based device
[00:02] <moylan1> so on topic, almost! :-)
[00:23] <airurando> bed beckons.
[00:23] <airurando> nn


[17:37] <alex_mayorga> Can someone here take a look at this bug and let me know what can I do next? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-6/+bug/727365
[17:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 727365 in openjdk-6 "icedtea-plugin crashes on firefox-4.0 and chromium" [Undecided,New]
[18:04] <alex_mayorga> sorry crashed again
[18:04] <alex_mayorga> did I miss anything


[11:17] <rindolf> Hi all. What can I do about this - http://paste.debian.net/235532/ ?
[11:17] <rindolf> I'm not on Debian - I'm on Mageia Linux Cauldron.
[11:19] <mgz> rindolf: generally you just delete/move the directory, then `bzr resolve path/from/conflict`
[11:19] <jelmer> what he said :)
[11:48] <m1sc> the ssl cert of my bazaar server changed a couple of days ago. bazaar doesn't  accept the new cert though ("certificate verify failed"). it is a valid cert though, accessing the server via curl or a browser works as expected. ideas?
[11:49] <jelmer> m1sc: make sure bzr is using the right ssl ca certificate
[11:52] <rindolf> mgz: thanks, that worked.
[11:52] <rindolf> mgz++
[11:55] <m1sc> jelmer: I'm not sure I understand: it's not some self signed certificate, so bzr should just accept it, no..?
[11:55] <jelmer> m1sc: it has to be signed by whatever CAs bzr knows about
[11:56] <jelmer> m1sc: it might be that the browser or curl are using a different ca list than bzr
[11:56] <jelmer> for example, were you previously perhaps specifying a custom CA file?
[12:00] <m1sc> jelmer: no, no custom ca


[05:06] <superfly> Maaz: tell Kilos morning oom!
[05:06] <Maaz> superfly: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[05:07] <superfly> :-D
[05:07] <Kilos> hiya superfly
[05:07] <Kilos> morning all
[05:08] <Kilos> power will be off from 0800 till 1600 they say
[05:08] <Kilos> be good
[05:08] <Kilos> lol 33 secs superfly
[05:08] <superfly> Kilos: I'm going to be out of the office most of today anyway
[05:09] <Kilos> ill sleep the day away
[05:09] <Kilos> have a good day all
[05:09] <superfly> thought I'd catch my daily #ubuntu-za dosage now, except there wasn't anyone here...
[05:10] <Kilos> lol
[05:10] <Kilos> Squirm, hasnt even started yawning yet
[05:10] <superfly> Kilos: good move. Wish I could do that
[05:10]  * superfly is on the train
[05:11] <Kilos> all good there superfly ?
[05:11] <superfly> Ya, I'm even wearing shorts today
[05:11] <Kilos> gonna be a long day without a pc going
[05:11] <Kilos> hehehe
[05:12] <Kilos> will cook on gas today
[05:12] <superfly> Kilos: that's OK, we get to play buzzword bingo
[05:12] <Kilos> hehe
[05:12]  * superfly printed out the bingo cards yesterday
[05:13] <Kilos> did you get youre win8
[05:13] <superfly> Yes, eventually, and even installed it
[05:13] <Kilos> what size was the download eventually
[05:13] <superfly> what a pain
[05:13] <superfly> 2.4 gigs
[05:14] <Kilos> horrible hey. linux spoils us for such stuff
[05:14] <Kilos> ah its nearly a gig smaller
[05:15] <superfly> The installer was confusing, then it takes FOREVER to boot up
[05:15] <Kilos> typical
[05:15] <superfly> And metro is confusing, even for me who already knew what metro is
[05:15] <Kilos> oh my
[05:16] <superfly> Seriously, this is supposed to be Microsoft's best OS yet?
[05:16] <Kilos> they say that with everyone
[05:16] <Kilos> i struggled to get win7 going
[05:17] <Kilos> so much to change just to install things
[05:17] <superfly> I was hoping for a little more. Rather stick with Windows 7
[05:17] <Kilos> i think they gone overboard with security
[05:18] <Kilos> pity sudo and chown dont work there
[05:19] <superfly> Kilos: no, they would have to rewrite the way Windows works to drastically improve security, and the last thing they want to do is produce a backwards incompatible OS
[05:19] <Kilos> lol
[05:20] <Kilos> i thought they were gonna make a linux version
[05:20] <superfly> so they try to bandaid the symptoms instead of fixing the problem
[05:20] <Kilos> heard that last year
[05:21] <Kilos> yeah windows comes with a box of bandaids to patch everything
[05:21] <superfly> Kilos: no, the closest they got to that was Xenix, a flavour of UNIX, which was an unsuccessful project
[05:21] <Kilos> lol
[05:22] <superfly> i think it was aimed at businesses, and they preferred going with Sun and IBM
[05:23] <Kilos> i wish more businesses would go ubuntu
[05:23] <Kilos> i could enjoy helping secretaries
[05:24] <superfly> Kilos: it is extremely difficult for businesses to change, especially the bigger ones
[05:24] <superfly> Kilos: naughty :-P
[05:25] <Kilos> hehe
[05:25] <superfly> most businesses have only just moved up from XP to 7
[05:25] <Kilos> ya especially when all their work uses programs designed for windows like with ian
[05:26] <superfly> And some are delaying *that* move for as long as possible.
[05:26] <Kilos> the software for the scanner machines are only for windows
[05:26] <superfly> There is a certain red bank which only allows IE6
[05:26] <Kilos> xp is useable
[05:27] <Kilos> wow and ie sucks
[05:27] <superfly> Kilos: I use Linux at work, and it is proving to be a major asset :-) and I also work with electronics
[05:28] <Kilos> ya but you can fix and adapt, not many can
[05:28] <superfly> its not about the OS, but people choose to develop software or Windows only
[05:28] <superfly> Morning DigiGram
[05:28] <Kilos> ya thats the prob
[05:28] <Kilos> hi DigiGram
[05:28] <DigiGram> morning superfly Kilos and others
[05:29] <Kilos> for businesses to change they would need to hire linux IT guys i think
[05:30] <Kilos> or learn to use irc
[05:31] <DigiGram> sjoe nee, a business shouldn't go to Linux
[05:31] <Kilos> why DigiGram
[05:31] <DigiGram> most people can't even install an exe and thats what they are used to
[05:31] <superfly> Kilos: no, they first need to see that their software runs on Linux, and for the majority of big businesses have already invested millions in software that runs on the Microsoft stack
[05:31] <Kilos> i hate that .exe
[05:31] <DigiGram> although synaptic makes it easier, people freak out when the "start" button is called menu and sits on top of the screen
[05:32] <Kilos> lol
[05:32] <superfly> DigiGram: I installed 8 last night, they evidently don't have anyone actually installing Windows
[05:32] <superfly> the installer is confusing
[05:32] <Kilos> ian found kde more to his liking than gnome
[05:33] <DigiGram> Haven't tried it yet, guess I will have to some time or another
[05:33] <superfly> Kaapstad, time to disembark, seeya all later
[05:33] <Kilos> i think seeing as we have gone dvd size synaptic and some more basic stuff should come preinstalled
[05:34] <Kilos> toods fly
[05:34] <Kilos> have a good day
[05:34] <DigiGram> cheers superfly
[05:35] <Kilos> our power will be off anytimeso hold the fort DigiGram
[05:41] <magespawn> morning all
[05:41] <Kilos> hey magespawn
[05:41] <DigiGram> good luck kilos
[05:42] <Kilos> ty DigiGram
[05:42] <DigiGram> one of my friends uses a 1200W UPS on 2 car batteries to power his 1000W PC and 3 24" screens for 3 hours...
[05:42] <DigiGram> sounds like a plan
[05:43] <Kilos> i have a ups but battery lasts 2 mins
[05:43] <Kilos> need to find some treuck batteries
[05:44] <magespawn> deep cycle batteries
[05:44] <Kilos> wont car/truck batteries work
[05:44] <Kilos> i charge this one with my homemade battery charger
[05:45] <Kilos> charged
[05:45] <Kilos> 12v is 12v
[05:45] <DigiGram> yes car batteries will do
[05:45] <DigiGram> but deep cycle will be better
[05:45] <Kilos> whats a deep cycle battery
[05:46] <DigiGram> cheap UPS's uses alarm batteries, the sealed type that you actually need to top up from time to time
[05:46] <Kilos> i dunno where you see what kinda ups this is
[05:46] <Kilos> Tescom SA
[05:47] <Kilos> got like a motor bike battery inside
[05:47] <DigiGram> how many VA? 600VA I presume if only one battery
[05:47] <Kilos> where do you see that
[05:48] <superfly> morning magespawn
[05:48]  * superfly is at work
[05:48] <Kilos> 600va it says on back
[05:49] <DigiGram> okay yeah, so your UPS won't charge a car battery, but you can use a car battery charger for that when it's depleted, but the power should keep you a while
[05:50] <Kilos> will try ty
[05:50] <Kilos> when power is fixed
[05:50] <DigiGram> I want to test it on outside lights, I don't think the block wave will be an issue, anybody here have the know how?
[05:50] <Kilos> got 10 mins
[05:50] <Kilos> sigh
[05:51] <Kilos> the screen output should work lights methinks
[05:51] <Kilos> actually any of them supply 220v
[05:51] <Kilos> this one has 3
[05:52] <DigiGram> yeah I know it has 220V, but your normal power form socket has a sinus wave while UPS power has a block wave
[05:52] <DigiGram> lights shouldn't be an issue, but I'd like the fridge and freezer to be on UPS as well
[05:52] <Kilos> but it must work surely if it can power a screen
[05:53] <Kilos> wow you gonna needs lotsa batteries
[05:53] <Kilos> inverting power uses lots of power
[05:54] <Kilos> quite an involved circuit board inside
[05:54] <DigiGram> yes I know, but those UPS's can supply 550W, I only need to draw like 100W or so from each, for say an hour or two
[05:55] <Kilos> fridges etc draw lots to get the motor going
[05:55] <DigiGram> they draw much less that heating equipment
[05:55] <Kilos> even have a way of making it 3 phase for startup
[05:56] <Kilos> oh yes
[05:56] <Kilos> its just the startup that needs more
[05:56] <Kilos> same as with a car starter
[05:57] <Kilos> can use up to 100 amps to start turning over
[05:57] <DigiGram> and a frridge?
[05:57] <DigiGram> that might be a problem
[05:57] <Kilos> they got compressors that need to start up
[05:58] <Kilos> i gave away all my fridge stuff
[05:58] <Kilos> maybe it will pop into memory some time
[05:58] <Kilos> used to know all that
[06:02] <Kilos> i think maybe 5 amps or so to start then drop to 1 amp or 1,5 while running DigiGram
[06:03] <DigiGram> eish
[06:04] <Kilos> one gets inverters that can handle it
[06:04] <Kilos> not cheap though
[06:05] <Kilos> but lights are all in the watts range
[06:05] <Kilos> so lighting should be a prob from a ups
[06:06] <Kilos> should not
[06:06] <DigiGram> yeah, my outside lights amount to about 150W
[06:06] <Kilos> that should work for quite a while then
[06:06] <Kilos> yo Vince-0
[06:06] <Kilos> hey Tonberry
[06:06] <Vince-0> Haai Kilos
[06:09] <Kilos> i did a backup from my kde 12.04 to this unity now i got 10 desktops/workspaces
[06:09] <Kilos> so much better. the minimise thing makes me mal
[06:10] <Tonberry> hallo
[06:12] <Kerbero> o0
[06:13] <Kilos> hi Kerbero
[06:14] <Kerbero> hi hilos
[06:15] <Kerbero> *kilos
[06:16] <Kilos> lol
[06:16] <Kilos> jy moeg?
[06:16]  * Kerbero is still asleep
[06:17] <Kilos> hahaha
[06:23] <Kilos> power gone, see you late avy
[07:04] <magespawn> hey superfly
[07:55] <inetpro> good morning
[07:55] <inetpro> wow, lots of chatter already this morning
[08:08] <jrgns> urgh. some help please
[08:08] <jrgns> in thunderbird there are no folders for my different email accounts
[08:08] <jrgns> and no junk folder in local folders
[08:09] <jrgns> any ideas?
[10:32] <not_found> o/
[10:37] <inetpro> jrgns: 1. check on the filesystem whether files exist in  ~/.thunderbird/<Profile name>/Mail/
[10:37] <inetpro> where <Profile name> is defined as the Path inside ~/.thunderbird/profiles.ini
[10:38] <inetpro> jrgns: 2. Check and make sure that you do not have multiple sessions of thunderbird running
[10:38] <not_found> that sinking feeling when you nuke your windows partition and boot to linux, just to remember that you had all your music/photos/videos on the ntfs partitions to share to both windows and linux... grrrrr
[10:38] <inetpro> if those files and folders are missing you have a problem
[10:38] <inetpro> backups?
[10:39] <not_found> yup... not 100% recent but have all scattered between laptop, phone etc... just annoying as hell
[10:39]  * not_found kills installs and partitions to easily
[10:39] <inetpro> eish!
[10:40] <not_found> but 12.10 is working like a charm thus far...
[10:40] <not_found> only issue has been that I can't copy over to many GB's before nautilus crashes out :/
[10:41]  * inetpro just answered two people with different issues and it's all relevant :-)
[10:42] <not_found> inetpro is da man
[10:44] <inetpro> not_found: how goes it?
[10:45] <not_found> kyk noord en voeter voort, thanks, and you inetpro ?
[10:50] <inetpro> not_found: ai
[10:50]  * inetpro in the same boat
[10:51] <not_found> we will get through it inetpro ... we always do it seems :)
[10:53] <inetpro> sure
[10:54] <not_found> +1
[10:54] <not_found> like
[10:54] <not_found> poke
[10:54] <not_found> uhm.,.. tweet
[11:35] <jrgns> inetpro: soz, i stepped out for a hile
[11:36] <jrgns> inetpro: both of those are fine. The file is there, and there's only one session running
[11:36] <jrgns> i suspect that i deleted all of the folders (including the account ones) and except for local folders
[11:36] <jrgns> that seems to throw it
[14:04] <DigiGram> bye all
[15:25] <zeref> ...
[16:01] <Kilos> listen to the falling rain , listen to it fall
[16:01] <Kilos> evening all of you
[16:01] <Kilos> lovely people i saw you called inna mails
[16:03] <superfly> hi Kilos
[16:04] <Kilos> yo superfly
[16:07] <Kilos> hi inetpro wen jy darem
[16:07] <Kilos> hi psydroid hows things
[16:14] <psydroid> hi Kilos
[16:14] <psydroid> hi superfly
[16:14] <psydroid> hi inetpro
[16:15] <psydroid> Kilos, I've been a bit busy lately but I'm fine, how are things with you?
[16:15] <Kilos> ok ty psydroid winning here
[16:16] <Kilos> running unity kubuntu 12.04 and my old maverick
[16:16] <Kilos> unity+kde
[16:16] <psydroid> oh cool
[16:17] <psydroid> I am on kubuntu 12.10 updated from daily, but I'll reinstall it
[16:18] <psydroid> and get rid of 12.04 in the process
[16:18] <Kilos> is 12.10 good
[16:18] <psydroid> I'm keeping ubuntu 10.04.4 on my system since it works fine
[16:19] <Kilos> lol im doing same with maveric 10.10
[16:19] <psydroid> yeah, it works well for me except for a problem with usb-audio
[16:19] <psydroid> hehe
[16:20] <Kilos> but only probs ive had with 12.04 have been basically getting to use 3g modem
[16:20] <Kilos> everything else worked i think
[16:21] <Kilos> but found a link on fixing nm to auto connect and all, so happy now
[16:21] <Kilos> 12.04 just slower than 10.10
[16:21] <psydroid> for me 12.04 performed slowly because of broken graphics acceleration, so I'm not going to keep it on my system
[16:22] <Kilos> ah what graphics card you using
[16:22] <psydroid> but it didn't have any other obvious bugs
[16:22] <Kilos> nvidia
[16:22] <psydroid> onboard amd radeon hd 4200
[16:22] <psydroid> which shouldn't be that bad
[16:23] <Kilos> oh and i also have 2 pcs connected via cable wiyhout router
[16:23] <Kilos> without
[16:23] <Kilos> have had lotsa fun
[16:24] <psydroid> ah yes
[16:24] <Kilos> both pcs use 1 3g modem
[16:24] <Kilos> the iptables thing was a bit of a head scratcher but the guys helped me sort it
[16:27] <psydroid> yeah
[16:28] <psydroid> so it's better to keep a working system in that case
[16:28] <Kilos> thats maverick on the second pc
[16:28] <Kilos> hehe
[16:28] <psydroid> and keep experimenting with newer releases on other partitions or computers
[16:29] <Kilos> i will wait till our cds arrive from canonical then try 12.10
[16:30] <Kilos> too much to download
[16:33]  * bakuman kry dit op SU se local repo's
[16:33] <psydroid> yeah
[16:33] <Kilos> SU?
[16:33] <bakuman> Stellenboshc
[16:34] <Kilos> ah lekker hey?
[16:34] <Kilos> but whats improved from 12.04 to 12.10
[16:35] <Kilos> im looking at lts being a big data saver
[16:36] <psydroid> which is normally the case
[16:38] <psydroid> but 12.04 is performing too slowly for me and almost anyone I installed it for due the broken graphics acceleration
[16:38] <psydroid> with nvidia graphics it's even worse
[16:39] <Kilos> mine improve after nvidia-current sorted my nvidia card there must be some driver you can use
[16:39] <Kilos> doesnt it show on extra drivers i think its called
[16:40] <Kilos> ya nvidia wont help with radeon
[16:40] <inetpro> wb Kilos
[16:40] <Kilos> ty inetpro
[16:40] <Kilos> must be some driver you can get psydroid
[16:40] <inetpro> Kilos: ek't darem voor die reen by die huis gekom dankie
[16:41] <Kilos> sjoe gelukig ne
[16:41] <Kilos> hard geval hier
 Squirm, hasnt even started yawning yet <<-- Was already on my way to Durban
[16:41] <Kilos> 15mm of so
[16:41] <Kilos> lol
[16:41] <Kilos> good lad
[16:41] <inetpro> sjoe, ek dink nie ons het so baie hier gekry nie
[16:42] <Kilos> i thought that would get an immediate reaction from you
[16:42] <inetpro> maar ek het gesien hoe die wolke donker word vanaf die suide toe skarrel ek maar huis toe
[16:42] <Kilos> lekker gereen en sonder hael
[16:42] <inetpro> mooi
[16:43] <Kilos> hael nooit as dit van die suide af kom nie
[16:43] <psydroid> Kilos, it performed slowly on both ati and nvidia graphics, that's why I didn't install this release for anyone
[16:43] <Kilos> aw thats a shame psydroid
[16:44] <Kilos> is 12.10 better?
[16:44] <psydroid> yes, 12.10 is much better
[16:44] <psydroid> I've been using it for the past month now
[16:45] <Kilos> oh thats interesting. could you work out why?
[16:45] <Kilos> only graphics?
[16:46] <psydroid> yes, I think it's the graphics stack that works again
[16:47] <psydroid> I used to work well until about a month before the 12.04 release
[16:47] <Kilos> i think ill keep 12.04 unity and kde and just experiment with 12.10
[16:48] <Kilos> so probs started on 11.10 already?
[16:48] <Kilos> i skipped 11.04 and 11.10
[16:48] <Kilos> first 2 i skipped since 8.04
[16:49] <Kilos> the unity thing was too much for me and gnome wasnt same as gnome 2
[16:49] <psydroid> 11.10 was too buggy for me so I deleted it from my system
[16:50] <psydroid> ah yes, I can't use unity
[16:50] <psydroid> it slows me down too much
[16:50] <Kilos> lol im actually using it here now
[16:50] <Kilos> but i dont need to rush things
[16:50] <inetpro> unity has come a long way and is constantly improving
[16:51] <inetpro> for normal users I would recommend unity any day
[16:51] <Kilos> mine is lekker now after a backup from kde with 10 workspaces
[16:52] <Kilos> but still not as fast as maverick
[16:52] <psydroid> yeah, I just want to use my computer for development, I'm sure it will be useful to many other people
[16:55] <Kilos> good
[16:55] <Kilos> always good to have reliable fixes online
[16:55] <inetpro> 10 reasons why Ubuntu 12.10 desktop blows away Windows 8 http://tek.io/QSDJNB
[16:56] <inetpro> interesting that you even see articles about Ubuntu on Techrepublic these days
[17:01] <Squirm> I was at an MS IT Camp all day today
[17:01] <Squirm> still prefer linux :P
[17:02] <Kilos> i dash for supper. wbb
[17:02] <Squirm> there were no BSOD's :(
[17:22] <Kilos> so magespawn wassup
[17:23] <hubx> hi there
[17:23] <Kilos> hi hubx
[17:24] <hubx> Did ever hear of club-mate? It is very popular in germany.
[17:24] <Kilos> nope what is it
[17:25] <hubx> Its a beverage. Same category as energy drinks (caffeine), but a lot cheaper and its taste better.
[17:26] <hubx> seems like there were an attempt to bring to SA, but there apparently  not very active atm: http://www.club-mate.co.za/
[17:26] <Kilos> peeps here drink redbull
[17:26] <Kilos> dont give me energy though
[17:27] <Kilos> i think its all in the mind
[17:27] <hubx> its taste like pure sugar.
[17:27] <hubx> yes, i think thats true more like a habit
[17:27] <Kilos> lol
[17:29] <hubx> " Slowly the rest of Berlin soaked up Club-Mate to the point where it has now become iconic of the Berlin Culture itself."
[17:29] <hubx> http://we-are-awesome.com/blog/2011/08/club-mate/
[17:29] <Kilos> hehe
[17:29] <hubx> true, everybody in Berlin under the age of 35 drinks it
[17:29] <Kilos> you going to the release party hubx ?
[17:30] <Kilos> the gauteng one
[17:31] <Kilos> you have joined our mailing list havent you?
[17:31] <hubx> I hope so, but it is the last weekend in SA for a friend.
[17:31] <hubx> yes, but I didn't receive any mails yet
[17:31] <Kilos> whew tough decision then
[17:31] <Kilos> i got 20 today
[17:31] <hubx> maybe I can convince her to join :)
[17:31] <Kilos> you missing something
[17:31] <Kilos> good idea
[17:31] <hubx> oh congrats :)
[17:33] <Kilos><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:34] <Kilos> you joined that one?
[17:34] <hubx> jup just now, i forgot to approve the subscription
[17:34] <Kilos> lol no wonder you get nothing
[17:46] <Kilos> tumbleweed, you got 5 mins
[17:46] <Kilos> ?
[17:47] <Kilos> i forget them things
[17:48] <Kilos> just an idea. seeing as we now get ubuntu on dvd isnt it practical then to add a few more apps to make things easier for first time users
[17:49] <Kilos> seems a waste of a dvd with only 800 meg on
[17:49] <Kilos> hi drussell not so?
[17:51] <Kilos> inetpro, superfly am i outa line?
[17:52] <superfly> Kilos: no, I think you're just talking to yourself :-P
[17:52] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[17:53] <Kilos> isnt it logical to use some of the extra space?
[17:54] <inetpro> Kilos: they should still try to keep it slim
[17:54] <Kilos> for peeps that download?
[17:54] <inetpro> Kilos: yep
[17:55] <inetpro> seriously, you don't need everything that is available
[17:55] <Kilos> no man the important things
[17:56] <inetpro> Kilos: what is the important stuff that you think is missing?
[17:56] <Kilos> like maybe whats in the first update and synaptic etc
[17:56] <inetpro> please explain
[17:56] <Kilos> new peeps dunno sudo apt-get update
[17:56] <inetpro> and?
[17:56] <inetpro> how you plan to solve that?
[17:56] <Kilos> \lol
[17:56] <Kilos> pidgin and xchat
[17:56] <inetpro> ai
[17:56] <Kilos> rofl
[17:57] <Kilos> quassel for kde users
[17:57] <inetpro> who needs pidgin and xchat?
[17:57] <inetpro> quassel comes standard with kubuntu
[17:58] <Kilos> i dunno what other peeps install
[17:58] <Kilos> hi smileE17
[17:58] <smileE17> Look at Cape Town :P http://cdn.dutchcowboys.nl/images/upload/twitter-loading-speeds.png
[17:58] <smileE17> hi Kilos
[18:00] <Kilos> inetpro, the idea is to target new users as well
[18:00] <inetpro> Kilos: join #ubuntu-meeting and talk to them when they make their decisions
[18:00] <Kilos> and peeps used to winsucks expect an install to work as is with updates etc an option
[18:01] <inetpro> Kilos: what doesn't work?
[18:01] <inetpro> and since when do you get a working system when you install the base windows installation?
[18:01] <Kilos> xp was complete
[18:02] <inetpro> no ways
[18:02] <Kilos> win7
[18:02] <inetpro> no ways
[18:02] <inetpro> in order to have a working system you need office et all
[18:02] <Kilos> i didnt download anything apart from avast and zonealarm
[18:02] <Kilos> ive never used office
[18:03] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:03] <inetpro> Kilos: 90% of users need a decent word processor and spreadsheet
[18:03] <inetpro> well maybe not 90% but a lot
[18:04] <Kilos> well unity has that now with libreoffice
[18:04] <Kilos> or does that need to update before working properly too
[18:04] <inetpro> linux desktops have come with proper desktop applications for many many years by default
[18:05] <inetpro> and all those fit on that single cd
[18:05] <Kilos> ya but not much works till update/upgrade is done
[18:05] <inetpro> I disagree
[18:05] <Kilos> you havent tried a clean install with no internet
[18:06] <Kilos> 10.10 even evolution didnt work till upgrade
[18:06] <inetpro> Kilos: you're a special case
[18:06] <inetpro> you have always had issues with your particular hardware
[18:07] <Kilos> ya man but evo didnt tork till update/upgrade as an example
[18:07] <Kilos> work
[18:07] <inetpro> Kilos: well evo is no longer standard AFAIAA
[18:08] <Kilos> example only
[18:08] <tumbleweed> Kilos: hello, yes?
[18:08] <inetpro> evo has always been very bloated
[18:08] <Kilos> tumbleweed, seems im outa line
[18:08] <Kilos> sorry to worry you
[18:08] <tumbleweed> ah, np
[18:09] <inetpro> Kilos: you're not outa line at all
[18:09] <inetpro> it's just not so easy to come with solutions that will please everyone all the time
[18:09] <Kilos> by that i meant making dom suggestions
[18:10] <inetpro> and I think those guys making the decisions are doing a damn good job
[18:10] <Kilos> this is actually not for me as long as 8ta has the 2+1
[18:10] <inetpro> there's a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes
[18:10] <Kilos> yes they are i agree
[18:10] <Kilos> was just a suggestion
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[18:11]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[18:11] <inetpro> Kilos: unfortunately we don't have so many of us in #ubuntu-za involved in that process
[18:11] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[18:11] <Maaz> inetpro: Righto
[18:12] <inetpro> I only know of the tumbling weed really at this stage
[18:12] <Kilos> yeah but im saure im not the only that had this idea seeing as we cant go with cds anymore
[18:13] <Kilos> sure
[18:13] <inetpro> Kilos: your ideas are falling on death ears in #ubuntu-za
[18:14] <Kilos> but not serious as long as 8ta keep the 2+1
[18:14] <inetpro> not that I say that you should not mention them
[18:15] <inetpro> Kilos: we will hopefully have even better deals than the 8ta 2+1 at some stage
[18:15] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and inetpro!
[18:15] <inetpro> pricing has to come down
[18:15] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[18:15] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[18:15] <Kilos> even better?
[18:15] <inetpro> Maaz: thanks
[18:15] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure
[18:31] <smileE17> bye
[18:31] <smileE17> see ya :;)
[18:31] <smileE17> good night
[18:31] <smileE17> :)
[18:31] <inetpro> Kilos: we're very much still suffering from the Telkom monopoly of a few years ago
[18:32] <Kilos> yeah but much better than 3 years ago
[18:33] <inetpro> Kilos: still not anywhere good enough
[18:33] <Kilos> compared to charlvn and them they are paying mush more
[18:33] <inetpro> we're not nearly as competitive as we should be
[18:34] <Kilos> so we getting there
[18:34] <Kilos> as telkom and the others fight each other for customers we can only score
[18:35] <Kilos> saw a voda add today pay first 3 mins and next 57 mins free
[18:35] <Kilos> on calls
[18:36] <inetpro> Kilos: those are just very clever marketing tactics on a small scale
[18:36] <Kilos> hi Trixar_za
[18:37] <inetpro> Kilos: those kind of offers have lots of small print
[18:38] <Kilos> lol all wasted on me, i never fone
[18:40] <inetpro> Kilos: they know that most users will keep what they have
[18:41] <Kilos> yip but 8ta has rocked some boats methinks
[18:41] <inetpro> I say they should do away will all the many packages and have a single rate for everyone
[18:41] <Kilos> think back coupla years
[18:43] <inetpro> mobile voice call rates should come down to the levels of fixed line call rates
[18:44] <Kilos> that would help lots yes
[18:44] <Kilos> then telkom will lose lots of fixed line peeps though
[18:45] <inetpro> fixed lines should really not be needed till the last mile
[18:47] <Kilos> lol here its the last mile that gets stolen
[18:52] <inetpro> well ultimately we should have fiber running to each house
[18:52] <inetpro> but that will take many years to get there
[18:53] <Kilos> whew that would be lovely
[18:53] <Kilos> m/s downloads
[19:08] <inetpro> nlsthzn: wb
[19:08] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[19:08] <nlsthzn> inetpro, salute :)
[19:08] <nlsthzn> hiya uncle Kilos
[19:19] <Kilos> night guys. sleep tight
[23:49] <magtie> msg Nickserv Register password magtie@telkomsa.net


[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[06:57] <pitti> hey dholbach, how are you?
[06:58] <dholbach> hey pitti :)
[13:10] <gema> dholbach: at what time do the tuesday lightning talks finish?
[13:11] <gema> dholbach: I haven't managed to find the agenda beyond summit
[13:11] <dholbach> it's in summit
[13:11] <dholbach> giving open week talk right now
[13:11] <dholbach> sorry
[13:11]  * gema goes back
[13:11] <gema> dholbach: no worries, I will be here later
[13:42] <davmor2> gema: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/2012-10-30/
[13:42] <gema> davmor2: I was looking for the after 6pm activities
[13:43] <gema> davmor2: I am on the case already, I think there is some miscomunication , talking to msm and dholbach about it
[18:33] <bdmurray> who could I speak to about jenkins dist upgrade testing and conffiles?
[18:34] <bdmurray> this to be specific - https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-upgrade-precise-desktop/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=desktop,label=upgrade-test/198/
[18:38] <bdmurray> hggdh: do you know? ^
[18:39] <hggdh> bdmurray: psivaa, or jibel would be the best bets. Good chance plars is also up-to-date
[18:41] <plars> bdmurray: yes, those fail every so often, some have had bugs submitted on them, tbh though not all have bugs submitted yet because it's a *lot* of failures in some cases, and at many times, are not well received.  We need to talk about what a better solution to this might be
[18:41] <plars> clearly opening a single bug to cover all of them is wrong, but manually opening an individual bug for each one doesn't seem ideal either
[18:42] <bdmurray> plars: the conf file test would be more useful if we knew what the file looked like on disk
[18:42] <bdmurray> for example with release-upgrades we only have the version from the package release-upgrades.dpkg-ist
[18:42] <bdmurray> I'd like to know what /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades looks like on that system
[18:45] <bdmurray> also looking at apt-term.log from that specific test it doesn't look like the precise system is fully up to date as it has software-properties version <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> is current
[18:46] <bdmurray> plars: how can this be sorted out?
[18:47] <plars> bdmurray: is that always useful? my understanding of these files are basically things that are not in the new package any longer, and should have been moved to a different location, or removed entirely as part of the upgrade.  Also, they may not always be text
[18:48] <plars> bdmurray: I'm sure the file could be saved it that's really useful, I'm just not sure I understand why it would be useful if the file is no longer in the new version
[18:49] <bdmurray> plars: in this particular instance we can see the following:
[18:50] <bdmurray> Configuration file `/etc/update-manager/release-upgrades' ==> Modified (by you or by a script) since installation. ==> Package distributor has shipped an updated version.
[18:50] <plars> bdmurray: sorry, was on the phone and trying to look into this, from the one you pointed at it looks like python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol is the only thing that had obsolete conffiles, so I may have thought you were asking something else
[18:50] <bdmurray> so its the contents of the text file that changed
[18:50] <bdmurray> and the results I have are what the new text file looks like
[18:50] <bdmurray> which I could have found myself by looking at the package
[18:50] <plars> bdmurray: yes, the release-upgrades file is modified so that precise will upgrade to quantal by changing Prompt=lts to Prompt=normal
[18:51] <bdmurray> and Prompt=normal is what comes with ubuntu-release-upgrader in quantal
[18:52] <bdmurray> so there shouldn't have been a conffile prompt at all
[18:52] <bdmurray> but without seeing what release-upgrades is from that system its hard to tell...
[18:52] <plars> bdmurray: there's no complaint in the conffiles about the release-upgrades file
[18:53] <plars> bdmurray: take a look at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-upgrade-precise-desktop/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=desktop,label=upgrade-test/198/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
[18:53] <plars> that's the only packages it found with obsolete conffiles
[18:53] <plars> the release-upgrades file *has* to be modified to do the upgrade, otherwise there's no upgrade to test
[18:53] <bdmurray> obsolete is not the same thing as modified
[18:53] <plars> and the release-upgrades file is not the source of the conffiles test failure
[18:53] <bdmurray> see the apt log at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-upgrade-precise-desktop/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=desktop,label=upgrade-test/198/artifact/results/apt-term.log
[18:54] <plars> bdmurray: but release upgrades is not the obsolete conffile,   /etc/ssl/certs/ValiCert_Class_2_VA.pem is
[18:54] <bdmurray> and look for Configuration file
[18:54] <plars> bdmurray: sure, that's fine - not a failure
[18:55] <plars> bdmurray: the only failure from the tests that were executed in this job was the obsolete conffiles test
[18:55] <bdmurray> okay, it might not make the test fail but it makes for a bad upgrade experience
[18:55] <plars> and that had nothing to do with the file you are referencing
[18:56] <plars> bdmurray: that's plausible, and to my understanding, expected if you hand modify a file so that you can force an upgrade from an lts release.  I'm not sure if anyone has tried filing a bug for this, but my impression is that this is expected and normal
[18:56] <plars> and that hopefully you know you're going to get offered that suggestion since you hand-edited the file
[18:57] <plars> bdmurray: in the normal process of an upgrade to a new release, say q->r, it would not be necessary to modify that to get the upgrade to happen, and there should be no warning from dpkg
[18:57] <bdmurray> I've done many a dist-ugprade, from P to Q, after having modified release-upgrades and have never gotten a conffile prompt.  So I'm curious what is going in these tests.
[18:58] <bdmurray> maybe there is extra white space in the Prompt line?
[19:00] <plars> bdmurray: you're right, that one should fall below the threshold and not get actually prompted.  Are you sure it doesn't show up in the log anyway though?
[19:02] <plars> bdmurray: looking at the autoupgrade code, what's basically getting run in this test is DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get -y dist-upgrade
[19:02] <plars> bdmurray: to be clear though, this is not the failure in the conffiles test that is referenced in that job
[19:03] <bdmurray> plars: okay, I understand that. why are the .dpkg-dist files included though?  if they are useful for something it should include the conffile on disk
[19:06] <plars> bdmurray: looking
[19:07] <bdmurray> thanks
[19:07] <plars> bdmurray: those are normally picked up and reported as possibly unexpected, but the release-upgrades one is specifically whitelisted from the report.  At some point those are all getting attached to the job for debugging even if it's whitelisted.  I'm not sure where off the top of my head, would need to dig a bit more
[19:07] <plars> bdmurray: in this case though, it's specifically not reported as a failure because we expect it on this file, same for sudoers
[19:09] <plars> bdmurray: I see where actually, I can fix it up.  The cp is done before the whitelist is evaluated
[19:10] <bdmurray> I don't think it should be expected on the release-upgrades file
[19:11] <plars> bdmurray: yes, it's expected because we manually modify the file
[19:14] <bdmurray> but if you are manually modifying it to what the new release has then there won't be a conflict
[19:18] <plars> bdmurray: in this case, it has been modified to what the new one should have, but I suspect it detects that the file has been modified, regardless of whether that's identical to what would be in the upgraded file.  I don't know the guts of how the upgrade detects modified files though
[19:18] <plars> and in the case of an upgrade *to* a lts release, the file would certainly not match what the new file would have in it
[19:20] <bdmurray> well that's true from non-lts to lts it would generate a modified conf file prompt
[19:31] <plars> bdmurray: I agree, I think it would be nice if it actually checked to see if the modified file was a zero-diff against what it would change to, but I don't think that's how it works (I don't know the details though)
[19:44] <bdmurray> plars: so what will happen with white listed things? will they no longer appear as artifacts?
[19:45] <plars> bdmurray: I need to talk to others, theres no real harm in having those 2 (the only whitelisted files) show up as artifacts as they are not big.  As it stands, they are not reported as failures due to the whitelisting.  I could have it go remove the whitelisted files from the directory where artifacts are picked up
[19:45] <plars> bdmurray: currently, it's basically just looking for all the .dpkg-dist files on the system and copying them across, then once it has them, it checks to see if there are any besides those two and reports them as a possible problem
[19:46] <plars> it could be that sometimes it's useful to have them there just in case, but I don't think they've every been terribly useful
[19:46] <bdmurray> if you are going to report them as a possible problem it would be less confusing if the white list were published somewhere or the conffile from the system were included
[19:47] <plars> bdmurray: the whitelist is in the code itself, and corresponds to the files that are modified by the test
[19:47] <plars> bdmurray: but those are *not* reported as a possible problem
[19:47] <bdmurray> plars: where is the link to the code?
[19:48] <plars> bdmurray: https://code.launchpad.net/auto-upgrade-testing
[19:49] <bdmurray> plars: it might be helpful to include that on the results page
[19:51] <plars> bdmurray: it can be found by looking at the log, showing where it pulled code from to run.  But I get what you're saying.  jenkins is pretty raw currently and leaves it to the person reviewing the results to just know and understand a lot of things rather than making it really clear what the failure is
[19:51] <plars> and I think that's something that could stand improvement
[20:46] <Noskcaj> phillw, wxl: is the netboot testcase ready for upload?
[22:02] <phillw> Noskcaj: as far as i know, we're waiting on wxl to get a new power unit for his test machine.
[22:06] <phillw> Noskcaj: the testcase  is 'uploaded', it just needs to be copied over for when the Daily Respins start... which should be shortly after UDS.


[20:09] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +282 cases (now 1.6 million), +2 deaths (now 27983), +18851 tests (now 10.9 million) since a day ago


[05:27] <sunson> Is there a discussion on why epoptes is being preferred over iTalc? (is it simply because iTalc is not regularly in development?)
[05:27] <sunson> (ie., being preferred in 12.04)