[07:08] <fgimenez> good morning
[07:27] <dholbach> good morning
[08:30] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wonderful Weirdos Day! ð
[08:54] <fgimenez> hi Chipaca, can you please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~fgimenez/snappy/comment-rc-local-crash-test/+merge/270485 ?
[08:55]  * Chipaca looks
[08:56] <Chipaca> fgimenez: ouch
[08:58] <fgimenez> Chipaca, yep :) commenting it again should be enough by now
[09:03] <fgimenez> Chipaca, thx, trying elopio's serve_daemon_test now
[10:05] <Chipaca> wily edge update just jammed with â[    7.021077] FAT-fs (sda2): IO charset iso8859-1 not foundâ
[10:08] <Chipaca> (dunno if that's what jammed it, but that's the last thing on console)
[10:08] <ogra_> ppisati, ^^^^ i thought we compile that in nowadays ?
[10:45] <ppisati> Chipaca: BBB?
[10:45] <Chipaca> ppisati: kvm
[10:45] <Chipaca> amd64
[10:46] <ppisati> and why the kernel can't load the module?
[10:46] <ppisati> Chipaca: ^
[10:47] <Chipaca> ppisati: how would i know? :)
[10:47] <Chipaca> it might be a download problem though
[10:48] <Chipaca> as now it seems to be working, modulo the space problem
[10:48] <Chipaca> which is strange -- it should notice the download failed and not try to run with it
[10:48] <ppisati> Chipaca: ls -la /lib/modules/`uname -r` - you get something, right?
[10:50] <mvo_> Chipaca: reviewing your branch right now and just noticed the backlog, is this a fresh image or a upgrade?
[10:50] <Chipaca> ppisati: I got the error twice in a row (that is: booted an image from yesterday with -snapshot, sudo snappy update succeeded, got the error above on reboot), but now i'm getting a different error
[10:50] <Chipaca> ppisati: i'll answer your question in a moment though
[10:50] <Chipaca> mvo_: upgrade
[10:51] <mvo_> Chipaca: anything unusual in the upgrade, i.e. out-of-space on boot or something like this
[10:52]  * ppisati -> out for lunch, biab
[10:54] <Chipaca> nope
[10:55] <Chipaca> well
[10:55] <mvo_> Chipaca: hrm, thats alarming
[10:55] <mvo_> Chipaca: what is the new error you get?
[10:55] <Chipaca> right now I *do* get the out-of-space error
[10:55] <Chipaca> because it's still creating the versioned boot files
[10:55] <Chipaca> however it didn't happen when i then went on to get the other
[10:55] <Chipaca> hence why i suspect it's a download problem (or perhaps something else, but resulting in an empty or smaller initrd)
[10:55] <ogra_> currently the module (if it isnt compiled in) should live in the initrd
[10:56] <Chipaca> does that make sense?
[10:56] <ogra_> so you should get it loaded in any case ... unless your initrd didnt get loaded
[10:56] <Chipaca> now rebooting after doing the upgrade dance (which involves cleaning up /boot/b before upgrade, and then moving the versioned boot files to their unversioned place)
[10:56] <ogra_> do you have a full boot log/dmesg output ?
[10:56] <Chipaca> and it booted fine
[10:57] <Chipaca> from when it failed?
[10:57] <Chipaca> as it happens, i do
[10:57] <ogra_> i guess it loaded the wrong initrd or no initrd at all
[10:57] <mvo_> Chipaca: hm, I think it just failed to load the right inird.img, i.e. syncbootfiles copied the old one and the new (and correct) one was not renamed by the upgrade. I though I pushed a branch with a fix for this a while ago
[10:58] <Chipaca> ogra_: mvo_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12320079/
[10:58] <mvo_> it will be a glorious day when we get rid of syncbootfiles
[10:58] <mvo_> hopefuly soon
[10:59] <ogra_> hmm, it definitely loads an initrd there
[10:59] <ogra_> doesnt seem corupt either
[11:02] <mvo_> it could just be the old one
[11:02] <ogra_> Chipaca, so i guess it simply loaded the wrong initrd ...
[11:02] <ogra_> did it properly reboot after the error ?
[11:03] <Chipaca> no, stuck there
[11:03] <ogra_> that should definitely not happen indeed
[11:03] <ogra_> i guess we'd need to teach systemd to panic in such a moment
[11:04] <Chipaca> "systemd now eats kernel panic generator"
[11:04] <ogra_> heh
[11:04] <ogra_> hmm
[11:04] <ogra_> [    0.000000] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=(hd0,gpt2)/EFI/ubuntu/grub/a/vmlinuz root=LABEL=system-a ro init=/lib/systemd/systemd console=ttyS0 console=tty1 panic=-1
[11:04] <ogra_> [    0.000000] KERNEL supported cpus:
[11:04] <ogra_> shouldnt there be an initrd on the line as well
[11:09] <Chipaca> ogra_: apparently not
[11:09] <ogra_> grub.cfg doesnt set it by default ?
[11:09] <Chipaca> it does have an initrd stanza
[11:10] <Chipaca> but the cmdline doesn't mention it -- even on a successfully booted image
[11:10] <ogra_> ok
[11:10] <ogra_> well, it finds one ... so we're fine ... as long as it is the right one
[11:11] <ogra_> in any case the system shouldnt hang in such situations but reboot back into the other partition
[11:18] <Chipaca> mvo_: replied to your comments
[11:21] <mvo_> Chipaca: heh, looks like we should include the link to gustavos blog post as a comment when tomb is included :)
[11:22] <mvo_> Chipaca: thanks for the reply! lets wait with the top-approve until the dependencies are there, I will have a look after lunch
[11:22] <Chipaca> mvo_: mucho thank you
[11:22] <Chipaca> mvo_: wrt tomb, the blogpost is referenced from the package documentation which is in the standard place :)
[11:24] <mvo_> Chipaca: uh, ok. lalalala
[11:24] <Chipaca> added a nice long comment to the api checker test
[11:53] <ogra_> hmm
[11:54] <ogra_> do we have the ability to have a snap ship services and not start them by default ? (thinking of a snap that will come with default config we not necessarily want to run before it is configured)
[11:55] <ogra_> (beyond hacking something in via snappy config)
[11:56] <ogra_> mvo_, is there a reason that the wily versions of packages are uploaded in parallel in the image build PPA ?
[11:56] <ogra_> (vs just using the archive)
[12:00] <mvo_> ogra_: the turnaround time of the ppa is better than the archive, thats the only reason
[12:00] <ogra_> ah, k
[12:00] <ogra_> no general policy or some such
[12:00] <mvo_> no, just me being impatient
[12:14] <sergiusens> mvo_, did you do a release of snappy into wily?
[12:14]  * sergiusens wants to rebuild u-d-f with it
[12:15] <mvo_> sergiusens: not yet, can do so in a bit
[12:15] <sergiusens> mvo_, sounds good
[12:31] <mvo_> sergiusens: uploaded
[12:37] <Chipaca> tests pass \o/
[12:37] <Chipaca> ~> lunch
[12:37] <ogra_> grmbl ... the out of space thing is really annoying
[12:38]  * ogra_ spent the last 30min trying to update his rolling image
[12:43]  * ogra_ sees a plano-amd64 package announced by the store to G+
[12:43] <Chipaca> ogra_: it's easy to update rolling!
[12:43] <Chipaca> ogra_: first, determine whether the next one will be a or b
[12:43] <ogra_> Chipaca, until it tells you there is no space for the kernel/initrd :P
[12:44] <Chipaca> ogra_: then, rm a-or-b/initrd.img* a-or-b/vmlinuz*
[12:44] <Chipaca> ogra_: then, update
[12:44] <Chipaca> ogra_: then, mv initrd and vmlinuz to be versionless
[12:44] <Chipaca> ogra_: easy peasy
[12:44] <ogra_> yeah, i mv'ed them to the generic ones
[12:44] <ogra_> this time :P
[12:45] <ogra_> but it took a few attempts
[12:45] <ogra_> (and it is super annoying that it downloads the rootfs every time )
[12:46] <ogra_> (we might have devices that only use GSM for networking ... might take them a week to download :P )
[12:46] <ogra_> heh
[12:46]  * ogra_ notes that rickspencer3 found out that devicetree sucks
[12:46] <rickspencer3> omg
[12:46] <rickspencer3> please, someone, fix this for me!
[12:46]  * Chipaca hides
[12:46] <ogra_> i doubt it is fixable
[12:47] <ogra_> it is the alternative to compile your own kernel for each and every use-case
[12:47] <mvo_> ogra_: the fix went in yesterday it seems, so sorry, hopefully the last time
[12:47] <ogra_> mvo_, yeah
[12:47] <sergiusens> rickspencer3, just noticed I replied privately
[12:48] <rickspencer3> sergiusens, I assumed that was so you didn't embarrass my because my question was so silly
[12:48] <rickspencer3> :)
[12:48] <Chipaca> the last time i answered that kind of plea from rick i spent three months crunching numbers for academia
[12:48] <ogra_> rickspencer3, its not silly, but likely not solvable easily
[12:48] <sergiusens> rickspencer3, nah, I haven't installed a proper email client yet :-P
[12:49] <rickspencer3> really? we can't just make a custom overlay to include by default in the image?
[12:49] <mvo_> sergiusens: mutt is small
[12:50] <ogra_> rickspencer3, we could, but then people would have to remove it before loading theirs
[12:50] <ogra_> the usage of the setup is usually mutually exclusive
[12:50] <rickspencer3> that doesn't seem too bad
[12:50] <rickspencer3> right
[12:50] <rickspencer3> maybe we could have one image set up nicely for hackers
[12:50] <ogra_> and typically on a BBB you dont have any cape config by default for a generic image
[12:50] <rickspencer3> and then you take a different image if you want to do an overlay
[12:51] <rickspencer3> maybe we make an image that is on rolling and has the pins laid out for hacking
[12:51] <ogra_> i'm also not sure how far we are with capemgr support in our kernel
[12:51] <ogra_> ppisati, ?
[12:51] <rickspencer3> well, not being able use pwm is a killer for a lot of applications
[12:51] <rickspencer3> I have a multi-colored led, for example
[12:51] <ogra_> rickspencer3, you need to create your own oem snap anyway if you use any cap currently
[12:51] <rickspencer3> not to mention the servo
[12:51] <ogra_> *cape
[12:52] <rickspencer3> ogra_, well, these aren't capes, these are jumper cables and pieces
[12:52] <rickspencer3> on a breadboard
[12:52] <ogra_> they use the cape interface
[12:52] <rickspencer3> right
[12:52] <rickspencer3> so, maybe we make a "breadboard" image, that is set up like I said?
[12:53] <rickspencer3> a list of digital pins, a list of pwms, etc...
[12:53] <ogra_> well, your setup for the breadboard might completely differ from my setup ...
[12:53] <ogra_> while you use a servo and emit the right voltage/current, i might want to run a relais on the very same pin
[12:53] <sergiusens> right, pinouts can be completely different
[12:53] <ogra_> with a totally different voltage and curremt
[12:54] <rickspencer3> so?
[12:54] <rickspencer3> there are like 60 pins
[12:54] <rickspencer3> certainly there is a more sensible default than "nothing works"
[12:54] <ogra_> you would potentially blow up my HW with your cape setup
[12:54] <ogra_> this is like serial ports ...
[12:54] <rickspencer3> I find it strange that every other board seems to have a sensible set of default pins where I can use my gizmos
[12:54] <rickspencer3> but it's not possible on bbb?
[12:55] <rickspencer3> that doesn't ring true
[12:55] <sergiusens> ogra_, we could arguably create an alterante oem snap configured with a pinout that has a couple of everything
[12:55] <ogra_> while you coould make it default to be a mouse port ... there might be 3D controllers for $$$$$$$ that blow up completely if you attach it to such a port
[12:55] <rickspencer3> right
[12:55] <ogra_> so setting a default for that pinout can be very dangerous
[12:55] <rickspencer3> but, I am just talking about saying that hackers can use their breadboards without having to do this complicated overlay stuff
[12:55] <rickspencer3> ogra_, again, that sounds specious
[12:55] <ogra_> but they cant
[12:55] <ogra_> they could only use exactly your setup
[12:55] <ogra_> not theirs
[12:55] <rickspencer3> right
[12:56] <rickspencer3> but that set up for most people hacking with breadboards would be fine, right?
[12:56] <rickspencer3> what do they need?
[12:56] <rickspencer3> some digital pins
[12:56] <rickspencer3> some pwms
[12:56] <ogra_> especially for a breadboard that seems suboptimal
[12:56] <Chipaca> mvo_: E: golang-snappy-dev: arch-independent-package-contains-binary-or-object usr/bin/xgettext-go
[12:56] <rickspencer3> some analog ins
[12:56] <ogra_> since a breadboard is 100% freely usable/configurable
[12:56] <rickspencer3> sure, but most people just need a few pins to work
[12:57] <rickspencer3> if the hacker knew which 10 digitial pins will work, which 4 pwms will work, etc...
[12:57] <rickspencer3> then they could do most stuff
[12:57] <ogra_> right, they would need an overlay then ... and we should make it easier to use them, no doubt
[12:57] <ogra_> but we shouldnt ship a default overlay that potentially blows up stuff
[12:58] <mvo_> Chipaca: oh, that needs fixing, we should probably simply not install that at all, I wonder why its in the package
[12:58] <mvo_> Chipaca: I can do a seperate branch for this
[12:58] <ricmm> this is my original spec for kernel and gadget snap
[12:58] <rickspencer3> ricmm, do you think what I am proposing is going to blow stuff up?
[12:59] <ogra_> ricmm, right, is anything left from that ?
[12:59] <ricmm> ogra_: ashes
[12:59] <rickspencer3> It just seems simple that we make an image that "works"
[12:59] <ricmm> rickspencer3: if there is pin multiplexing involved, we cant have generic usage of pins
[12:59] <Chipaca> mvo_: k :)
[12:59] <ricmm> something will get fried, a garage door might crush a kid, someone might get sued
[12:59] <Chipaca> mvo_: anyway, top-approvernated
[12:59] <ricmm> Chipaca: you mean happrovernated
[13:00] <ricmm> miissing an h
[13:00] <rickspencer3> ricmm, then how come other boards have that?
[13:00] <rickspencer3> for example, on Arduino, the pins are the pins
[13:00] <rickspencer3> I plug stuff into the right pins, and good to go
[13:00] <ricmm> rickspencer3: that is because on arduino there is no pin multiplexing for other physical wire protocols
[13:01] <ricmm> they are all 5V TTL GPIO
[13:01] <ricmm> sergiusens: mvo_ ogra_ call time
[13:01] <mvo_> ricmm: I'm in the hangout
[13:01] <sergiusens> ricmm, what a pain :-P
[13:01] <rickspencer3> hmmm, it still seems to me that we could roll and image that "works" and document what the pins are
[13:02] <ogra_> rickspencer3, oops
[13:02] <ogra_> err
[13:02] <ogra_> ricmm,
[13:02]  * ogra_ moves to office, sorry
[13:05] <yashi_> hmm..., when an amd64 snappy image created with u-d-f does not boot with qemu, where should I look?
[13:06] <Guest30312> uh new toy https://uappexplorer.com/app/plano-amd64.canonical
[13:19] <Chipaca> Guest30312: you forgot to set your nick :)
[13:20] <Guest30312> Chipaca, this is my nick :))
[13:20] <ogra_> yashi_, how does it not boot ?
[13:20] <ogra_> (errors etc ? )
[13:21] <o> oOoOOo
[13:22] <yashi_> ogra_: no errors, cpu temp up, no output.  I must have done something wrong.
[13:23] <yashi_> ogra_: it should work with qemu, right?
[13:24] <ogra_> well, it definitely works with kvm here
[13:24] <yashi_> something like: qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 512 my.img
[13:25] <ogra_> kvm -m 512 -redir :8022::22 my.img
[13:26] <ogra_> thats what i use
[13:27] <yashi_> ogra_: yeah, that's a wrapper provided by qemu-kvm; just oneliner to wrap qemu-system...
[13:27] <yashi_> in fact, the official image of amd64 I downloaded from ubuntu is working fine
[13:28] <yashi_> I just can't re-create it here on wily
[13:55] <Chipaca> mvo_: seems we need to throw some packages at tarmac
[13:57] <mvo_> Chipaca: yeah, elopio or fgimenez can probably help, I have the info how to access tarmac somewhere too but already forgot where :/
[13:59] <fgimenez> mvo_, Chipaca np, the ip is in the trello board https://trello.com/c/nFPZb4AL/192-automated-testing-and-continuous-integration
[13:59] <fgimenez> you should be able to ssh, let me know if not
[14:02] <mvo_> fgimenez: neat
[14:04] <ogra_> mvo_, so my rolling image finally upgraded ... i see watchdog installed but i dont see any systemd units created for it
[14:05] <ogra_> (there is a sysvinit script)
[14:05] <ogra_> pitti, do i need to do anything spethial to trigger the generator ?
[14:05] <pitti> ogra_: generators are called at boot and with systemctl daemon-reload
[14:07] <ogra_> hmm, calling systemctl daemon-reload ... and then systemctl|grep watch doesnt return anything
[14:07] <ogra_> same goes for the ppp-dns sysvinit script
[14:08] <ogra_> would it be named the same in systemctl ? (or at least contain the old sysvinit name ?)
[14:10]  * ogra_ is a bit lost here
[14:15] <ogra_> pitti, would the generator  print anything in syslog ?
[14:15] <pitti> systemctl | grep watch? you mean "sudo journalctl -f" perhaps?
[14:16] <pitti> ogra_: most generators don't, unless you enable debugging
[14:16] <pitti> systemd-analyze set-log-level debug
[14:16] <ogra_> no, i mean systemctl |grep watch ... to find athe unit for watchdog
[14:17] <ogra_> ok,, that prints more into syslog ... still no trace of watchdog though
[14:18] <ogra_> Sep  9 14:17:10 localhost systemd[1]: Looking for SysV init scripts in:
[14:18] <ogra_> Sep  9 14:17:10 localhost systemd[1]: #011/etc/init.d
[14:18] <ogra_> nothing else
[14:19] <ogra_> i see /etc/rc2.d/S03watchdog when looking in the dirs
[14:24]  * ogra_ sighs
[14:26] <ogra_> does the sysvinit job need a special format or something to be picked up ?
[14:26] <pitti> ogra_: sorry, no context -- what do you actually try to do? you have your own generator, or look at the sysv one?
[14:26] <ogra_> pitti, i added a new package to the readonly rootfs ... it has a sysvinit job
[14:26] <pitti> ogra_: not really, just an LSB header; if you want you can run the gnerator manually (even as user), to see what it does
[14:26] <ogra_> namely the watchdog package
[14:27] <ogra_> as i understand systemd should generate a unit for it on first boot ... but it doesnt seem to
[14:27] <pitti> mkdir /tmp/x; SYSTEMD_LOG_LEVEL=debug /lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-sysv-generator /tmp/x /tmp/x /tmp/x
[14:28] <pitti> ogra_: right, as long as it's enabled and has some working LSB header it should work
[14:29] <ogra_> Ignoring S03watchdog symlink in rc2.d, not generating watchdog.service.
[14:29] <ogra_> aha
[14:30] <ogra_> oh
[14:30] <pitti> ogra_: is there maybe already a watchdog.service?
[14:30] <ogra_> Native unit for watchdog.service already exists, skipping
[14:30] <ogra_> Native unit for pppd-dns.service already exists, skipping
[14:30] <pitti> :)
[14:30] <ogra_> so why doesnt systemctl list it then ?
[14:31] <pitti> perhaps it's not running? it should be in "systemctl --all" at least, is it not?
[14:31] <pitti> or systemctl status watchdog
[14:32] <ogra_> (amd64)ubuntu@localhost:~$ sudo systemctl start watchdog
[14:32] <ogra_> (amd64)ubuntu@localhost:~$ ps ax|grep watchdog
[14:32] <ogra_> ...
[14:32] <ogra_>  1001 ?        SLs    0:00 /usr/sbin/watchdog
[14:32] <ogra_> ...
[14:32] <ogra_> all good it seems
[14:32] <ogra_> after i start it manually
[14:32] <ogra_> pitti, thanks !
[14:32] <pitti> ogra_: ok, so what whas the root of the confusion here? the already existing native job?
[14:33] <ogra_> no, that i missed --all apparently :P
[14:33] <pitti> ah, ok
[14:33] <ogra_> systemctl --all |grep watchdog lists it just fine
[14:36] <ogra_> hmm
[14:36] <ogra_> watchdog doesnt start automatically though ... even though it is enabled in /etc/default/watchdog
[14:37] <ogra_> Sep 09 14:37:01 localhost.localdomain systemd[1]: [/lib/systemd/system/watchdog.service:10] Unbalanced quoting in command line, ignoring: "/bin/sh -c '[ -z "${watchdog_module}" ] || [ "${watchdog_module}" = "none" ] || /sbin/modprobe $watchdog_module"
[14:37] <ogra_> hmm
[14:41] <ogra_> yeah, /lib/systemd/system/watchdog.service has cleraly messed up qquoting
[14:41] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12321213/
[14:43] <ogra_> now it would be good to know where systemd gets that line from
[14:43] <ogra_> it is definitely not just copying it from the sysvinit script
[14:44] <ogra_> pitti, that smells a bit like a bug in the generator
[14:44] <ogra_> the sysvinit script has : [ "${watchdog_module:-none}" != "none" ] && /sbin/modprobe $watchdog_module
[14:45] <ogra_> the generate seems to turn that into:
[14:45] <ogra_> ExecStartPre=/bin/sh -c '[ -z "${watchdog_module}" ] || [ "${watchdog_module}" = "none" ] || /sbin/modprobe $watchdog_module
[14:45] <sergiusens> mvo_, https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/modprobe/+merge/270545
[14:45] <Chipaca> mvo_: what ubuntu is tarmac running in? :-/
[14:45] <ogra_> (note the missing single quote ...)
[14:45] <sergiusens> Chipaca, a cloud one; but fgimenez is the right person to ask ;-)
[14:45] <Chipaca> fgimenez: ^
[14:46] <Chipaca> because it's got a go that doesn't have os.Unsetenv
[14:46] <Chipaca> um
[14:46] <Chipaca> mvo_: and that's the main difference between stgraber's activation and the coreos one, i guess
[14:47] <ogra_> ricmm, so with the above watchdog will never auto-start ... i can run it manually though, do you think thats ok for now ?
[14:48] <stgraber> Chipaca: right, the only difference is mine works with Go 1.3
[14:48] <Chipaca> stgraber: and that's what's in 15.04, right?
[14:49] <Chipaca> stgraber: we're so far mostly building from golang-*-dev instead of vendoring
[14:49] <stgraber> Chipaca: correct
[14:49] <Chipaca> anyway. big sigh. :)
[14:49] <Chipaca> mvo_: so we need to switch back to stgraber's, or ship go 1.5 to 15.04
[14:50] <stgraber> Chipaca: we briefly tried using golang-*-dev, then noticed that to be able to build we'd have to update a whole bunch of them which would break docker as it was requiring an older version of some of them... I don't see this model working until the Go community learns to version their APIs and that seems difficult for those guys :(
[14:50] <ricmm> ogra_: that is ok
[14:51] <ogra_> ok ... still, there is a bug somewhere indeed
[14:51] <ricmm> ogra_: if its not autostarting, we can just ask them to use a config file
[14:51] <stgraber> Chipaca: if you've got a packaged version of upstream go-systemd, you can also just cherry-pick my change on top of that, it's tiny.
[14:51] <Chipaca> stgraber: a large chunk of github seems to ignore the idea of versioning entirely
[14:51] <ogra_> seems the generator tries to be clever with shell script ... and isnt
[14:52] <fgimenez> Chipaca, sergiusens i think elopio set up tarmac, he can confirm
[14:52] <Chipaca> fgimenez: 's ok, 15.04 is already too old for what my question was
[14:54] <stgraber> oh, also, since we're talking Go and snappy. I seem to remember seeing you guys using go-gettext too. How are you extracting your strings?
[14:54] <stgraber> there isn't a go xgettext filter that I know of, I believe for LXD we're using the c++ one but it's not picking up some multi-line strings which makes it less than ideal
[14:55] <Chipaca> stgraber: ooooh!
[14:55] <Chipaca> stgraber: we wrote our own xgettext
[14:55] <Chipaca> stgraber: mvo_ did in fact
[14:55] <Chipaca> mvo_: see? we should totally package that binary :)
[14:56] <stgraber> any pointer to that xgettext? We totally need it!
[14:56] <mvo_> Chipaca: uh, hrrrm
[14:56] <Chipaca> stgraber: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy/snappy/files/head:/i18n/xgettext-go/
[14:56] <stgraber> nice!
[14:56] <mvo_> Chipaca: I send a pull-request to the upstream go-gettext guys
[14:57] <mvo_> Chipaca: I had hoped it would be adopted there
[14:57] <mvo_> stgraber: happy to package it on its own if its useful for you
[14:57] <Chipaca> mvo_: any response?
[14:57] <mvo_> I will ping upstream again
[14:57] <mvo_> no :(
[14:57] <mvo_> not even a "we hate you"
[14:57] <mvo_> (or your code, but isn't that the same ;)
[14:57] <ogra_> pitti, do you want a bug for the above ?
[14:57] <stgraber> mvo_: that'd probably be useful at some point, until then I can change our makefile to just go get it from your branch
[14:58] <Chipaca> oh man, sometimes it's hard to remember that no, it isn't the same :)
[14:58] <mvo_> Chipaca: what are you talking about, it's not the same ?!?!?!
[14:58] <pitti> ogra_: re
[14:58] <ogra_> ah, you were out
[14:58] <pitti> ogra_: please, with the original sysvinit script to reproduce
[14:58] <pitti> ogra_: yeah, mowing the lawn
[14:58] <ogra_> yep, will add that .... and the unit it generated
[14:59] <ogra_> hah, i got that ahead too today :)
[14:59] <pitti> ogra_: if it's not just a copy&paste error when someone created /lib/systemd/system/watchdog.service :)
[14:59] <ogra_> "brothers in mow"
[14:59]  * pitti ^5s ogra_
[14:59]  * ogra_ ^5s back
[14:59] <ogra_> pitti, i didnt touch it ... all automatic
[14:59] <ogra_> but i re-ran the generator manually when digging
[15:00] <ogra_> (as you know)
[15:00] <pitti> ogra_: right, but that didn't rewrite it because it was already there in /lib
[15:00] <ogra_> yeah
[15:02] <davmor2> ogra_: is this how you ^5 backs? https://xrixterweb.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/ncis-the-agent-gibbs-slapgif-images/
[15:04] <pitti> davmor2: oh gawd, you read too much internet! :-)
[15:05] <davmor2> pitti: :)
[15:10] <davmor2> pitti: also only the bits you can make fun :)
[15:10] <pitti> oh crap, missed the 17:00 confcall for Anand's  presentation
[15:10] <pitti> will that be recorded?
[15:24] <Chipaca> ogra_: http://www.jann.cc/2013/02/02/linux_watchdog.html has things form a guy using a hardware watchdog under systemd
[15:24] <zyga> Chipaca, ogra_: what are your plans for the watchdog?
[15:26] <davmor2> pitti: 17:00 your time or UTC
[15:27] <pitti> davmor2: mine
[15:27] <pitti> i. e. 1500 UTC
[15:27] <davmor2> pitti: nevermind then :)
[15:28] <ogra_> zyga, no plans
[15:28] <ogra_> we need to include it and it needs to work ... thats all
[15:58] <rickspencer3> hey, is pwm supported by snappy on raspberry pi 2?
[15:58] <elopio> Chipaca: still having problems with tarmac?
[15:59] <ogra_> rickspencer3, perhaps not /me cant tell ... i2c was the main focus fro 15.04.2
[15:59] <rickspencer3> ug
[15:59] <rickspencer3> no servos for Rick
[15:59] <ogra_> did you try ?
[16:00] <ogra_> perhaps it works
[16:00] <ogra_> there was just no specific focus to that ... main focus was making dtb overlays loadable at all and i2c
[16:00] <davmor2> rickspencer3: not after the moon on a stick again are you ;)
[16:00] <rickspencer3> ogra_, I did try, yes
[16:00] <Chipaca> elopio: my problems are not with tarmac :)
[16:00] <rickspencer3> and I got this ... panic: gpio: pwm not supported on this host
[16:01] <rickspencer3> at least I got a normal GPIO pin to work ;)
[16:02] <ogra_> rickspencer3, might be thats missing in the kernel then
[16:02] <ogra_> ask ppisati
[16:03] <rickspencer3> ppisati, can I do pwm on rpi2?
[16:03] <rickspencer3> with snappy, of course ;)
[16:03] <ogra_> i dont see any special option in config.txt that would switch it on/off
[16:03] <fgimenez> elopio, i've added the card about splitting the common package
[16:03] <ogra_> only some tuning option
[16:04] <ppisati> rickspencer3: what did you do to get a "panic: gpio: pwm not supported on this host"?
[16:05] <rickspencer3> ppisati, I run code from the embd library
[16:05] <rickspencer3> also, I note that there is no "pwm" under /sys/class
[16:05] <rickspencer3> so I can't do it manually
[16:05] <ogra_> ppisati, http://lwn.net/Articles/596188/
[16:06] <ogra_> seems thats the driver
[16:06] <ppisati> rickspencer3: oh, it's the app then
[16:06] <fgimenez> elopio, i've added another about writing godoc comments for generating the integration tests documentation, what do you thing about that?
[16:06] <rickspencer3> ppisati, right, it's not kernel panic, if that's what you mean
[16:06] <rickspencer3> it's a Go panic
[16:07] <ppisati> rickspencer3: everytime i see the word "panic" i attach it to the kernel
[16:07] <rickspencer3> ppisati, here is the code
[16:07] <ogra_> and i dont see /sys/class/rpi-pwm on my 15.04.2 install
[16:07] <rickspencer3> https://github.com/kidoman/embd/blob/master/samples/servo.go
[16:07] <ogra_> which should be the respective sysfs node
[16:07] <ppisati> right
[16:08] <ppisati> PWM is off in 3.19, i just checkd the config
[16:08] <elopio> fgimenez: thanks. I think it will be nice. I tend to hate docs, but will give this a try, is probably worth it :)
[16:08] <ppisati> i'll fix it and push a new kernel
[16:08] <ogra_> ppisati, thanks
[16:08] <ogra_> rickspencer3, so 15.04.3 will have it :)
[16:10]  * ppisati goes to pick up the car from the garage
[16:13] <fgimenez> elopio, ok, leaving, see you tomorrow
[16:13] <fgimenez> nice evening everyone o/
[16:56] <Chipaca> ok, off to a parents' evening. Will bb(m)l.
[18:45] <sergiusens> mvo_, here's another one https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/modprobe-orig-files/+merge/270579
[18:45] <sergiusens> :-)
[18:52] <stgraber> mvo_: hey, what am I doing wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/12322788/
[18:55] <stgraber> mvo_: seems to fail on a particular file for some reason
[18:56] <elopio> sergiusens: where do I get this?
[18:56] <elopio> pkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: golang-uboot-go-dev
[18:57] <stgraber> mvo_: nevermind, it's our existing multi-line trick which fails, I'll just fix all of those to use the proper multi-line syntax instead
[18:58] <mvo_> stgraber: if you could mail me the failing file I will inspect and fix tomorrow morning
[18:59] <mvo_> sergiusens: I look at your two branches now
[19:05] <stgraber> mvo_: the syntax which fails is string concatenation, e.g.:
[19:05] <stgraber> gettext.Gettext("abc\n" +
[19:05] <stgraber> "def\n")
[19:05] <stgraber> which was our workaround to get the c++ xgettext parser to extract most of our strings
[19:06] <stgraber> mvo_: also, your parser does extract all the strings, yay! but the produced gettext template looks odd, as in, I get literal \n in there rather than proper line breaks, is that expected?
[19:06] <mvo_> stgraber: sort of, I was relying on LP to make it look nice, but thats certainly something I can fix too
[19:07] <mvo_> stgraber: I will make a not about it (plus a note about the string concat) and look into fixing it tomorrow morning
[19:09] <mvo_> sergiusens: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/modprobe-orig-files/+merge/270579 I thought transitional would do a "merge" of original and writable path, am I misrembering this?
[19:09] <stgraber> mvo_: awesome, thanks so much for that tool, it's going to make our use of getext useful at last!
[19:10] <mvo_> stgraber: yay, happy to hear that
[19:10] <sergiusens> mvo_, it does, but for that to work I need to write the modprobe.d file directly to system-a (instead of writable)
[19:10] <mvo_> sergiusens: oh, ok
[19:10] <sergiusens> mvo_, IOW, if the dir on writable exists, the transition is considered done
[19:10] <mvo_> sergiusens: makes sense
[19:10] <sergiusens> mvo_, I forgot about that too :-/
[19:13] <sergiusens> mvo_, in any case we may not want to do this at all in the future
[19:30] <stgraber> mvo_: another small bug, if a string contains a ", your tool doesn't escape it
[19:30] <stgraber> mvo_: that leads to an invalid pot file
[19:30] <mvo_> stgraber: thanks
[19:30] <mvo_> that one at least is easy
[19:30] <mvo_> :)
[19:31] <stgraber> :)
[20:38] <mvo_> stgraber: lp:~mvo/snappy/snappy-gettext-fixes should contain the fixes, please let me know by mail if you notice any regression(s)


[13:47] <charlie-tca> xubuntu 10.04.2 386 images will not boot at all
[14:04] <charlie-tca> any help with these would be great! cjwatson will look in about 3 hours
[14:28] <charlie-tca> problem found
[14:55] <charlie-tca> w00t! 10.04.2 with 10.04 LTS docs even... also got firefox 3.6.13
[16:31] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: busy? my Xubuntu amd64 desktop image for 10.04.2 is oversize and I need to try and get it down 10MB or so
[16:48] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg :  Xubuntu amd64 desktop image for 10.04.2 is oversize and I need to try and get it down 8-10MB or so. the image is at 704MB now
[17:10] <micahg> charlie-tca: classically that has meant to drop a language pack
[17:11] <charlie-tca> how/who do I do that?
[17:11] <micahg> charlie-tca: that I don't know :)
[17:11] <charlie-tca> oh
[17:11] <charlie-tca> thanks, at least I got that much now
[17:11] <micahg> at least I think that's what Ubuntu does
[17:14] <charlie-tca> powerpc images will stay oversize, too
[17:42] <cody-somerville> to drop language packages, we update the seeds
[17:42] <cody-somerville> although I'm curious how it got oversized. Our releases usually leave a fair bit of room I thought.
[17:43] <charlie-tca> I think the new docs did it, but I am not positive
[17:43] <charlie-tca> Can we update and make it fit a cd again?
[17:45] <cody-somerville> FYI, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/567059/
[17:47] <cody-somerville> release amd64 was 695M, amd64 is now 704M
[17:47] <charlie-tca> yeah, I need to make it 700 or less again
[17:50] <micahg> Firefox and Thunderbird updates probably didn't help with size
[17:50] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: can you remove a language pack?
[17:51] <cody-somerville> yea
[17:51] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[17:52] <charlie-tca> I seem pretty determined to get this one, huh?
[17:52] <cody-somerville> xubuntu-docs is only 1.9Mbs btw
[17:52] <micahg> why do we need byobu?
[17:52] <charlie-tca> oh, that ain it then
[17:53] <charlie-tca> byobu makes using a tty easier, if you don't have the gui up
[17:53]  * charlie-tca don't really know the answer, though
[17:53] <cody-somerville> byobu is included in the other desktop seeds too
[17:55] <micahg> Thunderbird increased .7 and Firefox .6 MB
[17:55] <micahg> it's only 77k
[17:56] <cody-somerville> hmm.. I don't think this is going to be as easy as we'd like
[17:56] <charlie-tca> yeah, but lots of those "only" bits add up
[17:57] <charlie-tca> oh-oh
[17:57] <cody-somerville> ah, never mind. language packages aren't a part of the xubuntu meta package
[17:59] <micahg> well, 10.04.3 will probably be harder as we'll probably have a bug jump in Firefox size (3-5MB)
[17:59] <charlie-tca> hm, this is different for me. I never got quite this deep into the image, I guess.
[18:00] <charlie-tca> we won't spin that image. Normally, we only get the first .1 image, then we are done with the LTS
[18:00] <charlie-tca> Since we did not get the .1, I pushed for the .2
[18:00] <micahg> oh, ok, well, it'll probably be Firefox 4, idk if that's worth updating for
[18:00] <micahg> or maybe even 5 :)
[18:00] <cody-somerville> might as well do .3 if we can ;) we can always use the experience
[18:01] <charlie-tca> Okay, I'm willing then
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Pretty soon they will think we are real again, though
[18:03] <charlie-tca> hm, are we ready to respin the image now?
[18:04] <cody-somerville> not yet
[18:04] <charlie-tca> okay
[18:04] <micahg> charlie-tca: isn't that a good thing (being real)?
[18:05] <charlie-tca> sure, if we can do it
[18:06] <charlie-tca> I think it would be great to build us up again
[18:06] <charlie-tca> and it would help mr_pouit too, if they would listen to us once in while, at least ;-)
[18:09] <cody-somerville> bzr branch lp:langpack-o-matic
[18:09] <cody-somerville> oops
[18:09] <cody-somerville> mischan
[18:15] <cody-somerville> how about droping bn, hi, and ar? That'll free up 7.59 all together.
[18:16] <cody-somerville> (Mb)
[18:16] <micahg> wow, I thought the langpacks were 10MB each :(
[18:17] <cody-somerville> es, pt, de, and fr are all over 10MB
[18:17] <cody-somerville> es and fr are closer to 20MB
[18:18] <cody-somerville> alright, no objections? committing now.
[18:18] <charlie-tca> yes, bn, hi, and ar sounds good
[18:19] <cody-somerville> done
[18:19] <charlie-tca> Thank you very much


[06:06] <karstensrage> i signed the .dsc and .changes and dput everything up... how long before I can tell if it worked
[06:07] <karstensrage> i never got a notification when it didnt work
[08:04] <Rhonda> karstensrage: I usually get mails when the upload was rejected or other reasons?
[08:35] <dholbach> good morning
[09:54] <Fantu> hi, why nemo 2.8.6-1 is still in proposed?
[09:54] <Fantu> About cinnamon can someone sync from debian testing the 2.8 and add this small ubuntu change please? (already present in actual 2.6 build)
[09:54] <Fantu>   * Merge from Debian unstable. Remaining changes:
[09:54] <Fantu>     - debian/cinnamon.gsettings-override: Use firefox instead of iceweasel.
[13:30] <ogra_> Fantu, because it doesnt pass its tests http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#nemo
[14:19] <Fantu> ongra_ thanks for reply, I saw that do the same also in debian autotests but I don't understand why, I use it in debian and is working


[00:00] <utlemming> aatchison: yup, confirmed....I just pulled it and it worked as expected.
[00:03] <aatchison> utlemming, I just installed it today, but I'll check. I'm going to another talk at Scale, but I'll get back to this;)
[10:02] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Answer Your Cats' Questions Day! 😃  🐈
[10:15] <jstephan> He guys, I am playing around with Ubuntu Core (snappy) on Raspberry, My project is in Python, any idea how I can get pip and compile some modules I need?
[10:23] <asac> ppisati: i am playing with making a snapcraft plugin that builds kernel snaps from source without having to do a deb etc. as intermediate step and noticed that make install behaves odd in the sense that it does not just install the zImage etc. in INSTALL_PATH, buut it rather also tries to create a .deb etc.... any idea how i can do make install without that part?
[10:24] <asac> jstephan: check out snapcraft ... it has python2/python3 plugins that should support pip
[10:24] <ppisati> asac: not really, the deb packaging of the kernel is a bit convoluted
[10:25] <ppisati> asac: try to ping apw, he might know better than me what to do
[10:25] <ppisati> asac: but if i was you
[10:25] <asac> apw: :)
[10:25] <ppisati> asac: i would just create our config from our src tree
[10:25] <asac> ppisati: so make install just magically assumes that i want to produce a .deb? wow :)
[10:25] <ppisati> asac: e.g. fdrc && fdr-prepare-generic
[10:26] <asac> ok.... and then?
[10:26] <ppisati> asac: copy the config to a git tree and compile it there
[10:26] <ppisati> oh wait
[10:26] <asac> sure the compile is fine... i have features in myh plugin for providing a config file or using defconfig or use defconfig and overload a few CONFIGS etc.
[10:27] <apw> asac, in the packaging we use like make boot/Zimage or whatever to get just the kernel bits of the right form and we make install_modules to make that
[10:27] <asac> install is causing the trouble for me... it starts off doing the right thing (e.g. copy stuff to INSTALL_PATH)
[10:27] <asac> but then it also goes and creates a deb
[10:27] <apw> asac, but i would not expect make install to make a deb
[10:27] <asac> right, but it does for me :(
[10:27] <asac> latest torvalds trunk that is... but let me see
[10:28] <tzununbekov__> asac, hey, have you seen our email to you?
[10:28] <jstephan> asac: I will have a look
[10:28] <asac> tzununbekov__: not sure... who are you :)?
[10:30] <asac> tzununbekov__: jst /msg me the mail subjhect and i will look for it :)
[10:47] <asac> apw: ok found that kernel make install runs /sbin/installkernel if that exists on system, which i would guess (as that is on my system from a package called debianutils) seems to be the one spoiling the raw make install show :)\
[10:48] <asac> a bit sad that there is no switch to ignore an installkernel helper ... hmm.
[10:50]  * asac gives up and makes custom code to fiddle the right bits out of tree instead of make install
[10:55] <LefterisJP> kyrofa: As you suggested yesterday I made a PR for the suggested generic script snapcraft plugin: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/252
[11:15] <LefterisJP> ops, there is an error in another test. Fixing it now.
[11:44] <apw> asac, would you not be making the bits for this in a chroot of your own making, so you can control if that is in there, ie supply like a snappy-build package which diverts the existing and replaces it with one yout want
[11:49] <asac> apw: yeah, think i could do it, but then few lines o python that copies the *image is also goodie
[11:49] <asac> thanks
[12:29] <kyrofa> Good morning
[12:29] <LefterisJP> kyrofa: Morning :)
[12:29] <kyrofa> LefterisJP, thanks for the PR! I'll take a look :)
[13:03] <renat> Hi all! It's Renat from Screenly.
[13:03] <renat> I have a question again=)
[13:03] <renat> How can I "sign" a snap, so I won't need to use --allow-unauthenticated flag to install a snap, or build an image?
[13:10] <LefterisJP> kyrofa: addressed the remarks of your review
[13:13] <kyrofa> renat, that's done in the store
[13:13] <kyrofa> renat, though in 16.04 you'll be able to do it yourself with assertions
[13:14] <renat> kyrofa, thanks!
[13:15] <kyrofa> renat, it's a debsig. So while you could sign it, Ubuntu Core 15.04 is only setup to verify against a single key: the store's
[13:16] <renat> kyrofa, didn't know. Thanks!
[13:17] <kyrofa> renat, sure thing :)
[13:17] <kyrofa> renat check out /etc/debsig/policies
[13:22] <renat> kyrofa, one more question. About "follow symlinks"
[13:22] <kyrofa> renat, ah, yes?
[13:23] <renat> It was named "symlinks" before, and copied symlinks as symlinks only if it's value is true. But after I renamed it to follow symlinks - logic should change now. So follow-symlinks means "copy file instead of symlink", right?
[13:26] <kyrofa> Ah, interesting point. Indeed, I agree. And I do agree that follow-symlinks is a more clear config name
[13:27] <kyrofa> renat, what did you think of my dangling link comment, by the way?
[13:28] <renat> We can add "ignore-dangling" option to control that behavior.
[13:28] <kyrofa> renat, but read the docs for copytree-- I don't think that'll work
[13:28] <renat> 1 min.
[13:29] <kyrofa> renat, it only seems to apply when you're FOLLOWING the symlinks. If you're copying the symlinks it doesn't seem to care
[13:30] <kyrofa> renat, here: "Changed in version 3.2: Added the copy_function argument to be able to provide a custom copy function. Added the ignore_dangling_symlinks argument to silent dangling symlinks errors when symlinks is false."
[13:30] <renat> It only silences the error message.
[13:30] <renat> You won't get error message if you copy symlinks as symlinks.
[13:31] <kyrofa> renat, right, which means we can _create_ dangling symlinks
[13:31] <kyrofa> renat, in this case, what I mean by dangling is symlinks that point outside the snap
[13:31] <kyrofa> renat, they might be valid at the time of .snap creation
[13:31] <kyrofa> renat, but not install/runtime
[13:31] <kyrofa> renat, make sense?
[13:32] <renat> Yes.
[13:32] <renat> Understood.
[13:32] <kyrofa> renat, as-is, copying everything following the symlinks, that's not a problem. So the only way I see to avoid introducing that problem is with a custom copy function that symlinks what it can and copies the rest
[13:33] <kyrofa> renat, kind of annoying, granted
[13:33] <kyrofa> renat, sorry :P
[13:33] <renat> kyrofa, this approach is not very intuitive. You will need to add "smart-copy" and document its behavior then.
[13:33] <renat> sorry, smart-copy option.
[13:34] <kyrofa> renat, so perhaps you would argue that, if they turned the symlink following off, (I guess it should be on by default), they deserve the dangling symlinks since they should have known about them?
[13:34] <kyrofa> renat, and it is indeed a corner case
[13:35] <renat> kyrofa, yes. At least - they will know about it during testing.
[13:36] <kyrofa> renat, maybe. It could be more insidious. I'll have to get my colleagues thoughts there
[13:36] <renat> kyrofa, thanks.
[13:36] <kyrofa> renat, sorry for the trouble, thanks for bearing with us :)
[13:37] <renat> kyrofa, no problem. Let me return to work and generate more questions=)
[13:47] <kyrofa> elopio, sergiusens and I have a meeting which may flow over standup
[14:27] <pindonga> elopio, I've reworked my PR so it doesn't depend on xenial anymore... if you, kyrofa or someone else could please review it? https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/197
[14:27] <pindonga> if you like the approach, I'll squash the commits and fix the coveralls errors
[14:30] <kyrofa> pindonga, excellent use of discretion regarding the squashes. For future reference, checkout git commit --fixup. Makes the squash insanely easy
[14:30] <pindonga> ack
[14:31] <kyrofa> pindonga, https://robots.thoughtbot.com/autosquashing-git-commits
[14:32] <pindonga> kyrofa, while ssoclient is already packaged in xenial, I proposed vendoring it in to avoid the blockage on getting tests running in xenial
[14:32] <pindonga> this also enables snapcraft to include this feature in previous versions
[14:32] <pindonga> eg, trusty
[14:33] <kyrofa> pindonga, I've never vendored in python before. I guess elopio or sergiusens might need to speak on that
[14:37] <kyrofa> pindonga, do you have experience with that?
[14:37] <pindonga> kyrofa, not really, I've essentially looked what other people do
[14:38] <pindonga> ideally I'd like not have to modify the vendored pkg import paths
[14:38] <pindonga> so if someone more experienced in this area can suggest a way, +1
[14:38] <kyrofa> pindonga, agreed
[14:39] <elopio> good morning.
[14:39] <kyrofa> elopio, good morning!
[14:40] <elopio> pindonga: working around xenial seems the way to go. As the only thing that fails on travis are the examples, it's ok because the idea has been always to move that to jenkins. But yesterday the disk of the jenkins slaves got full. What a week to be QA...
[14:40] <elopio> fgimenez: ^ did you see the slaves? I wasn't sure what I could delete.
[14:41] <elopio> kyrofa: np about the standup. If you want to do it, ping me when ready.
[14:41] <mvip> mectors: We have a blocking issue for Screenly on MWC. The bug is filed here (https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1500755). Any chance you or someone could bump up the priority for that one?
[14:41] <pindonga> elopio, right, I also think vendoring in this case makes sense to prevent snapcraft requiring xenial from now on
[14:42] <pindonga> not sure what's the best way to vendor stuff in cases like this though
[14:44] <elopio> I'll check.
[14:44] <elopio> pindonga: first thing I see is that your branch drops coverage 7%.
[14:44] <pindonga> yes, am looking at that
[14:44] <pindonga> but I was mostly concerned whether you're ok with the vendoring of ssoclient
[14:45] <pindonga> elopio, and tbh, that coverage drop is only there bc I've modified main.py and it didn't have enough coverage to begin with
[14:45] <pindonga> :)
[14:47] <elopio> right, I'm not saying you have to get it back to 90%. Just looking :)
[14:47] <elopio> pindonga: so, how do we run the tests of that vendor package?
[14:48] <pindonga> elopio, I didn't include the tests for the vendored packages as those should be tested upstream
[14:48] <pindonga> and considered here just as an external library
[14:48] <pindonga> vendored in for convenience only
[14:48] <pindonga> ie, we don't test them
[14:49] <elopio> pindonga: um, I get the idea. And why don't we just put it in a different repository, package them and import them here?
[14:49] <pindonga> package as in deb packaging?
[14:50] <pindonga> that's what we're trying to avoid here
[14:50] <pindonga> new packages should go via xenial
[14:50] <pindonga> also, it's quite an overhead
[14:50] <pindonga> and this code might evolve in ways incompatible with deb pkg lifecycles
[14:52] <elopio> ah right right. I don't like this, copying code into the repository without running its tests. What about a git submodule?
[14:52] <elopio> pindonga: lets say we want to make a release suddenly. How can we be sure that the new code works with this vendored library?
[14:53] <sergiusens> elopio, want to do the standup now?
[14:53] <elopio> sergiusens: yes.
[14:53] <pindonga> elopio, there are tests for the commands that use the vendored lib
[14:53] <pindonga> elopio, I could include the upstream tests here as well if you like, but I see little to no benefit
[14:54] <pindonga> as long as the upstream lib doesn't change it's api this should work ok
[14:54] <pindonga> and since we control those upstream apis we should make sure to update snapcraft when/if they change
[14:55] <elopio> pindonga: ok. Let me read it fully after the call.
[14:55] <pindonga> ack
[14:58] <Chipaca> JamesTait: question, is there a way in cpi to search only on the package name?
[14:59] <JamesTait> /api/v1/search?q=name:%22package_name%22 should work I think?
[15:00] <JamesTait> e.g. https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=name%3A%22com.ubuntu.music%22&page=1
[15:01] <elopio> ping jdstrand: do you have some time to help me here? https://github.com/elopio/snapcraft/commit/43d6ed402f98fa39046d455ffdcbbde0a244c943#commitcomment-15606270
[15:03] <JamesTait> Chipaca, yay?
[15:06] <fgimenez> elopio, sorry didn't notice it, it's the same problem we had with devicemapper http://paste.ubuntu.com/14597997/, hopefully we'll have a new server deployed in a few minutes
[15:09] <jdstrand> elopio: I planned on giving you a hand but wasn't ready just yet. I will ask-- what is this on 15.04 or 16.04?
[15:09] <mvip> mectors: Cool. Thanks.
[15:15] <elopio> jdstrand: 16.04, all snaps.
[15:16] <elopio> jdstrand: but don't hurry, whenever you have time. I was just wondering if you got the ping.
[15:18] <jdstrand> I did
[15:19] <pindonga> elopio, btw, pushed a new test that improves coverage
[15:19] <elopio> pindonga: saw it. Thanks!
[15:20] <jdstrand> I responded in the request. the fix is actually on its way. I am curious though, can I see your snapcraft.yaml, /snaps/mosquitto.../current/meta/package.yaml and /var/lib/snappy/apparmor/profiles/mosquito...
[15:32] <elopio> jdstrand: oh nice, so I can just remove the overwrite.
[15:32] <elopio> jdstrand: here's the yaml: https://github.com/elopio/snapcraft/blob/43d6ed402f98fa39046d455ffdcbbde0a244c943/examples/mosquitto/snapcraft.yaml (from the previous link I gave you you just have to swipe up :)
[15:32] <fgimenez> elopio, the old server is up again http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/ after http://paste.ubuntu.com/14598180/
[15:32] <elopio> and I didn't write any apparmor profile. But I saw the one from mosquitto upstream, let me find it again.
[15:32] <fgimenez> elopio, i've taken the opportunity to spin up a vivid slave there too
[15:32] <elopio> fgimenez: awesome. Let me join the hangout.
[15:33] <asac> apw: ppisati: is it possible to use squashfs as initrd?
[15:33] <apw> asac, initramfs is cpio.gz format, each segment of an initramfs has to be that format
[15:34] <elopio> jdstrand: https://git.eclipse.org/c/mosquitto/org.eclipse.mosquitto.git/tree/security/mosquitto.apparmor
[15:34] <elopio> I assume my snap is consuming that one. Is that right?
[15:34] <asac> apw: hmm. i see this; http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/2013-January/066195.html
[15:36] <apw> asac, legacy mode will mount other types, iff that type is not a module ... but why that format, when we have a format that is good
[15:37] <asac> apw: just pondering as we use squashfs for snaps etc.
[15:37] <asac> apw: do i need to enable some config to get legacy mode?
[15:38] <apw> asac, it is enabled by default, though whether upstream will keep it long term is less clear
[15:39] <jdstrand> elopio: can you give me /snaps/mosquitto.../current/meta/package.yaml and /var/lib/snappy/apparmor/profiles/mosquito... too?
[15:39] <asac> right. maybe its not in trunk anymore? my kernel just detects junk according to log
[15:39] <jdstrand> elopio: (fyi, I'm in and out of meetings so I will be laggy)
[15:41] <apw> asac, with which kernel, i'd expect it to detect junk and then detect it if it was going to
[15:41] <apw> but ... i am not sure it is a good idea to rely on it
[15:41] <apw> noone uses those formats normally, everything is the new cpio format and has been for a long time
[15:43] <asac> apw: yeah, it didnt detect it after seeing junk though... but ok, guess better not go down that path at all
[15:44] <kgunn> mvo: hey there, i was just trying u-d-f from your all-snaps branch just now...but i can't quite figure out the commands....
[15:44] <kgunn> i thot it would be
[15:44] <kgunn> sudo /home/kg/Downloads/ubuntu-device-flash core rolling --channel edge -o xenial_core_amd64.img --developer-mode --gadget=generic-amd64 --size=5
[15:45] <kgunn> but it keeps saying "expected 1 gadget snap"
[15:48] <sergiusens> kgunn, maybe try --gadget=generic-amd64/edge ?
[15:54] <kgunn> sergiusens: thanks...but no joy
[15:55] <elopio> @kyrofa https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/202
[15:55] <nothal> elopio: No such command!
[15:56] <elopio> pleeeeaaase
[15:56] <kyrofa> elopio, sheesh man
[16:01] <kyrofa> Alright, time to move off the grid a bit to weather the storm. I'll be a bit difficult to reach I'm afraid
[16:02] <elopio> jdstrand: ah, you meant the installed ones. I'm sorry. https://paste.ubuntu.com/14598353/
[16:03] <mvo> kgunn: sorry that its a bit hard to use right now, there is an exmaple here http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/make-rpi2-all-snap and here is what I use for amd64 http://paste.ubuntu.com/14598354/
[16:03] <elopio> kyrofa: good luck man! I'll wait for the cute new release pictures on monday ^_^
[16:03] <kgunn> mvo: ta
[16:03] <kgunn> will try in a moment
[16:04] <kyrofa> elopio, ugh
[16:04] <kyrofa> elopio, I might have to birth that boy myself :P
[16:07] <elopio> hah, show the world that free software prepares you for absolutely everything. make us proud!
[16:07] <kyrofa> elopio, hahahaha!
[16:11] <Chipaca> JamesTait: thanks muchly
[16:11] <Chipaca> JamesTait: no i'm not lagged why do you ask
[16:11] <Chipaca> :-)
[16:11] <JamesTait> 😃
[16:11] <JamesTait> Glad to be of service!
[16:23] <elopio> fgimenez: can you upload your vivid udf somewhere?
[16:23] <fgimenez> elopio, sure give me a second
[16:25] <fgimenez> elopio, <IP_ADDRESS>:/home/ubuntu
[16:26] <elopio> thank you.
[16:34] <Chipaca> JamesTait: question for you, v2
[16:36] <JamesTait> No, we don't have a v2 api yet. 😉
[16:38] <Chipaca> https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=name%3D%22http%22
[16:38] <Chipaca> JamesTait: what's going on there? (what'm i missing?)
[16:40] <Chipaca> JamesTait: because I *could* argue that the match from those names to "http" is rather poor
[16:40] <Chipaca> JamesTait: if I were feeling ornery, I mean
[16:40] <Chipaca> not that I am, in any way, trying to argue this, of course
[16:41] <Chipaca> it just seems to me that "bankaustria.peter-bittner" does not, strictly speaking, if I were being picky, match "http".
[16:41] <JamesTait> Hmmm...
[16:44] <JamesTait> Looks to me like it's matching http from the description for some reason.
[16:46] <JamesTait> Er, hang on... what's that %3D in there? Shouldn't that be %3A ?
[16:47] <JamesTait> Ah, but that doesn't find your package because its full name is http.chipaca and it doesn't have an alias!
[16:47] <Chipaca> d'oh! 3A!
[16:48] <JamesTait> But dropping the %22 from the query to make it a keyword search instead of a literal phrase returns your package and one other.
[16:48] <Chipaca> JamesTait: it's only exact matches when used like this?
[16:48] <Chipaca> ah
[16:49] <Chipaca> woooo!
[16:49] <Chipaca> that's perfect, then
[16:49] <Chipaca> so, name:$query
[16:49] <Chipaca> not name=$query
[16:49]  * Chipaca LARTs himself
[16:50] <Chipaca> JamesTait: thanks again
[16:50] <Chipaca> and sorry to have wasted your time a little there :-)
[16:50] <JamesTait> q=[<field_name>:]value[,[field_name:]value]...
[16:51] <JamesTait> Or q=[<field_name>:]"value"[,[field_name:]"value"]...
[16:51] <JamesTait> Or some combination thereof.
[16:52] <Chipaca> JamesTait: and if value contains " how do you quote it?
[16:53] <JamesTait> That, sir, is an excellent question!
[16:53] <Chipaca> or ,
[16:53] <Chipaca> I mean, it could also be ","
[16:53] <Chipaca> :-)
[16:53] <Chipaca> because users are eeevil
[16:53] <JamesTait> No! Say it ain't so!
[16:53] <Chipaca> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGNtl9A1JwU
[16:54] <JamesTait> Ah, Spongebob. Where would we be without you?
[16:54] <jdstrand> elopio: security-override ended up in 'subscribe'. I think you want it in mosquito, no?
[16:54] <JamesTait> Not in a pineapple under the sea, that's for sure.
[16:55] <elopio> jdstrand: oh... I'm ashamed, I'm sorry :)
[16:56] <JamesTait> I think the answer to your question is to \-escape them, but I'm looking for an example to verify that.
[16:56] <elopio> fgimenez: m-o credentials ready, xenial slaves patched. Is it normal for the vivid slave to take that much time to go online?
[16:57] <Chipaca> JamesTait: and is there documentation as to what things are "special" in a query? i notice "*" is special, for example
[16:57] <Chipaca> JamesTait: as is ?
[16:59] <fgimenez> elopio, great! it's still pulling layers from docker hub, but it seems that won't take too long, most of them are already pulled http://paste.ubuntu.com/14598736/
[16:59] <elopio> ok, I'll wait.
[17:00] <JamesTait> Chipaca, in fact, \-escaping the quote doesn't seem to make a difference, so I'm not sure.  The "special" characters mostly come down to those that Elasticsearch uses in its query syntax, which I wish I could find documented in a single place.
[17:02] <Chipaca> and elasticsearch is just a frontend for lucene, is it not?
[17:06] <elopio> fgimenez: I still don't understand vault to keep secrets. We would store the m-o password in a local vault, and then pass a token from an environment variable to read it?
[17:06] <elopio> oh well, but it's late for you. That's for next week.
[17:10] <fgimenez> elopio, np, yes they recommend a $VAULT_TOKEN var, anyway so far i had just looked into kubernetes secrets, the bin/create-secrets.sh script is about those
[17:10] <fgimenez> elopio, vivid slave is about to show up
[17:15] <jdstrand> elopio: np
[17:17] <fgimenez> o/ nice weekend everyone
[18:20] <elopio> today I'm going to take a looong lunch to teach a class of geographers about openstreetmap
[18:20] <elopio> let's see how it goes.
[18:20] <elopio> bbl.
[20:14] <kyrofa> elopio, quick one: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/253
[22:26] <wiggleworm> I am looking for help with enabling console but with a twist - I want to see the systemA/systemB login via console
[22:26] <wiggleworm> I am able to enable cosole ttyS(x) and see the boot process
[22:27] <elopio> <- back
[22:27] <wiggleworm> I want to be able to see the boot choices systemA/systemB
[22:49] <elopio> wiggleworm: we are leaving the systemA/systemB implementation
[22:49] <elopio> now everything is handled as snaps, even the boot files.
[22:50] <elopio> maybe you should explain what's your goal, and then somebody will be able to give you pointers.
[22:50] <elopio> however, it's friday and it's late. The developers are already afk.
[22:58] <tsimonq2> elopio: although there still might be some developers in the US that are lurking! :)
[23:01] <elopio> tsimonq2: right. [Most] devs are afk. And if they are not, they should starting the party right now. It's been a good week :)
[23:05] <tsimonq2> elopio: well, again, some devs are still in the US, and idk if most of them are in Europe anyways :)
[23:05] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


[12:04] <mogindi> hello folks! Need quick help from one of you kind souls
[12:04] <mogindi> https://maas.io/docs/deb/2.9/cli/installation (deb)
[12:04] <mogindi> -> says last supported version is 2.8
[12:04] <mogindi> -> doesn’t have 2.9 available in bionic PPA
[12:04] <mogindi> https://maas.io/docs/snap/2.9/cli/installation (snap)
[12:04] <mogindi> -> doesn’t say anything about last supported version even shows how to upgrade
[12:04] <mogindi> -> available in bionic snap
[12:04] <mogindi> Is v2.9 supported in Ubuntu 18.04 with snap?


[12:41] <LaserJock> hi bshumate and Burglaptop
[12:42] <Burglaptop> salut LaserJock
[12:58] <LaserJock> hmm, is there a XML to plain text converter?
[01:09] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: look on your system for a xml2 utility
[01:19] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: yeah, I was doing it on an OSX machine and didn't see any xml2 stuff.  I thought I got rid of that
[01:52] <Kyral> I did
[01:52] <Kyral> it had # #
[01:53] <Kyral> meaning it was a backup file
[01:53] <Kyral> where is the error checking file now...
[01:53] <LaserJock> basic.xml
[01:54] <Kyral> Ah I see it
[01:54] <Kyral> cut and paste time :D
[01:54] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:54] <Kyral> I just added a small line to see if I got the hang of it
[01:54] <Kyral> I'll diff it now and send it to you
[01:55] <Kyral> Want me to remove that backup file too?
[01:56] <LaserJock> yeah, because that is yours not the repos. do "svn status"
[01:56] <Kyral> yah one file modded, the basic.xml
[01:57] <LaserJock> ok, so did you get rid of the # # file?
[01:57] <Kyral> Yah....but its not showing up in the diff
[01:57] <Kyral> LJ Email?
[01:57] <LaserJock><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:01] <Kyral> sent
[02:02] <Kyral> I dunno if I did the formatting right...Bluefish showed me the Ordered List thing, which I thought would be a good idea for the ErrorChecking thing
[02:07] <LaserJock> Kyral: what directory did you do svn diff in?
[02:07] <Kyral> ~
[02:07] <Kyral> which is right above ubuntu-doc
[02:08] <LaserJock> Kyral: it is easier if you run it in the actual directory of the file
[02:08] <Kyral> oh
[02:08] <LaserJock> I had to go to ~ to apply it or change the -p flag
[02:11] <LaserJock> Kyral: anyway, if you want to work on that, check out http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing
[02:14] <Kyral> mkay
[02:15] <LaserJock> Kyral: and send me a diff whenever your done with a decent chunk. ;-)
[02:30] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: do you know of any open source tools to do low level formatting of a hdd?
[02:31] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: oh geeze. I don't. Kyral, your the CS major. Do you know?
[02:41] <Kyral> dd?
[02:42] <Kyral> something like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<hdd you wanna nuke>
[03:33] <Burglaptop> Kyral: how easy is it recover data after that operation? (I want it to be as hard as possible)
[03:37] <Burglaptop> and is there a nice wrapper script that detects all harddrives on the system and then formats them in sequence? (I could write one, but am lazy)
[03:38] <Burglaptop> never mind, just found dban
[03:43] <Kyral> Burglaptop: umm
[03:44] <Kyral> if you consider that /dev/zero is literally a source for zeros
[03:44] <Kyral> You are basically filling the drive with zeros
[03:44] <Kyral> now more fun would be doing /dev/random and then /dev/zero
[03:45] <Burglaptop> ok
[03:45] <HrdwrBoB> urandum
[03:45] <HrdwrBoB> urandom
[03:45] <HrdwrBoB> unless you have a tapping bird
[03:45] <HrdwrBoB> .. and a long time to wait
[03:46] <Burglaptop> now I just need to find a tool to test cdroms
[04:19] <Burglaptop> hey jsgotangco
[04:21] <jsgotangco> hey!
[04:23] <crimsun> hope you feel better, jsgotangco
[04:23] <jsgotangco> thanks
[04:50] <mhz> jsgotangco: what's up doc? stomachache?
[04:51] <jsgotangco> mhz, i dunno..i just feel heavy and bloated today...
[04:51] <jsgotangco> hope its not PMS
[04:51] <jsgotangco> :D
[04:51] <mhz> as long as it is not RMS :D
[04:52] <LaserJock> lol, I hate that ;-)
[04:52] <mhz> hehe
[04:53] <Kyral> RMS is good
[04:53] <Kyral> I just don't wanna wind up like him
[04:53] <mhz> lol
[04:53] <mhz> you don't like his hair "cut", Kyral ?
[04:54] <mhz> oh, I bet is his "saint" custom!
[04:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: well, I'll try not to have many questions for you today
[05:42] <mhz> jsgotangco: just to cheer ya up http://mhz.homelinux.org/elwiki/MauricioHernandez/FunPictures/CustomerService
[07:51] <Madpilot> hi all
[07:53] <Burglaptop> salut Madpilot
[07:53] <Madpilot> hi Burglaptop - have a good weekend?
[07:53] <Burglaptop> indeed
[07:58] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: any news on the ReLectronics stuff?
[07:59] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: going to be doing some more chatting this week with other Freegeeks and then with ReStore here in town
[08:00] <Burglaptop> I enjoying being able to make endless longdistance calls from work without cost
[08:00] <Madpilot> cool - you should blog something to planet.u.c about it
[08:01] <Burglaptop> I will, once I have something more solid
[08:01] <jsgotangco> voip?
[08:02] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: no, just big longdistance charges I never see
[08:02] <jsgotangco> work benefits
[08:02] <jsgotangco> i see
[08:02] <Burglaptop> and long calls for personal stuff get merged into the other long calls to libraries
[08:03] <Burglaptop> plus a personal 1-800 number (should I ask for a 1900 number next?)
[08:03] <Burglaptop> ;)
[08:03] <jsgotangco> 1-800-COREY
[08:04] <Burglaptop> too short
[08:04] <Burglaptop> 1-900-HOTCORY
[08:04] <Madpilot> ick ick ick
[08:04] <Madpilot> :P
[08:05] <Burglaptop> lol
[08:09] <robitaille> I guess I could do long-distance calls as well from my work phone... let people taxes pay for them :)
[08:10] <Burglaptop> "your tax dollars at work"
[08:11] <robitaille> in practice, I'm too nice to do that obvious abuse of tax dollars.
[08:12] <Burglaptop> I feel less qualms about spending a few cents of my companies money
[08:12] <Burglaptop> they don't pay me enough to be that anal
[08:12] <jsgotangco> :P
[08:12] <jsgotangco> don't bite that much of the hand that feeds you
[08:12] <jsgotangco> just nibble a bit
[08:13] <Burglaptop> I won't, not that foolish (usually)
[08:13] <robitaille> that's my "problem": we get so much "ethics in government" stuff, you cann't do something like that without feeling guilty. So I don't, and everyone is happy.
[08:15] <Burglaptop> yes, gov't is very different that a private company.
[08:15] <robitaille> starting with that oath of allegeance to the Crown :)
[08:15] <Burglaptop> and the flogging
[08:16] <Burglaptop> did I mention the rum and the sodomy (or is that the navy?)
[08:16] <robitaille> they try to force Windows and Office on us.  Is that enough of a punishment?
[08:17] <Madpilot> that counts, I suspect :P
[08:17] <Burglaptop> so they flog you to take the sodomy of having to use windows and then they offer you rum to make the pain go away?
[08:18] <Burglaptop> anybody got their dapper machine handy?
[08:19] <robitaille> Burglaptop,  yes
[08:20] <Madpilot> robitaille: have you tried that new Dapper installer?
[08:20] <Burglaptop> hmm, never mind
[08:21] <jsgotangco> robitaille, hmmm...have you noticed the MB article that you posted
[08:21] <jsgotangco> the ads have gnome footprints
[08:21] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:21] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: MB article?
[08:21] <robitaille> Madpilot,  not yet.  I plan to, but I have been busy recently.  I did a normal install of Flight 4 just to say that I have done it on my laptop.
[08:21] <jsgotangco> http://www.mb.com.ph/INFO2006022056737.html
[08:22] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, you mean express?
[08:22] <Madpilot> Espresso, or whatever it's called - I was just reading the Flight4 wiki page earlier today - looks very cool
[08:22] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: espresso, please
[08:22] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  I don't see the ads.  Obviously my ad blocking method in firefox works :)
[08:23] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:23] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: when do I sign you up for the data-destroying install?'
[08:23] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: not this week, thanks :P
[08:23] <Burglaptop> really? ahh...
[08:24] <robitaille> http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/tips#lay_adblocking    I highly recommend that simple method to block 99% of the ads out there
[08:24] <Madpilot> The new Opera 9beta has a very, very slick adblocker built in - finally
[08:24] <Burglaptop> epip has a basic one for 1.9
[08:24] <jsgotangco> i'll get opera for my DS soon
[08:25] <Burglaptop> the gcompris guys are looking at porting to the DS
[08:25] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: the Nintendo thing? I saw the blurb on the Opera website about that
[08:25] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:26] <Madpilot> I've got a hacked adblocker in Opera 8, it works well but it'll be nice to have it built into the browser finally
[08:27] <Burglaptop> at the rate work is going, the gcompris guys might have it running on the DS before my work will have it running on Fedora
[08:27] <Madpilot> what is gcompris?
[08:28] <Burglaptop> kids edutainment
[08:28] <jsgotangco> its a colorful kiddie app
[08:28] <robitaille> My kids love some of the apps in gcompris.
[08:28] <jsgotangco> the art of gcompris needs polish though
[08:28] <robitaille> it's french for "I understand" by the way
[08:28] <robitaille> (phonetically)
[08:29] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: would be nice if someone could step up and fund that
[08:29] <Burglaptop> find a community member with some art skills and develop an entire theme for it
[08:29] <jsgotangco> the api is said to be easy but i haven't really had time to learn it
[08:29] <Burglaptop> the gcompris guys and I were thinking about dedicated gcompris machines
[08:30] <jsgotangco> why not have it run on OLPC?
[08:30] <Burglaptop> I was thinking for the old P1s and p2s
[08:30] <Burglaptop> that would be cool
[08:31] <Madpilot> locked down "arcade" machines just running gcompris + some minimal Linux install?
[08:31] <Burglaptop> we were also thinking of creating and marketing a gcompris-appliance, but I have no idea what kind of market there would be
[08:31] <Burglaptop> robitaille: do you think the above might work?
[08:31] <jsgotangco> tux racer had an arcade machine product
[08:33] <Burglaptop> oh joy, isn't synaptics UI a fun one to talk about
[08:33] <robitaille> the market for gcompris are probably school labs, no?  And family machines.  In both case, you want to have other apps running than gcompris for flexibility.
[08:33] <Burglaptop> I was thinking some sort of single function gcompris device. Shiny and colourful, etc.
[08:33] <robitaille> gcompris is not that great that you want kids using only gcompris :)  they will get bored
[08:34] <Burglaptop> gcompris would need some major activity development before that would happen
[08:34] <Burglaptop> anyway, I was just blueskying. Like I need more time intensive projects right now
[08:34] <jsgotangco> the apps are already solid but the art is hmmm
[08:42] <Burglaptop> we choose a bad day to announce flight 4
[08:43] <jsgotangco> ?
[08:43] <Madpilot> Sunday is a bad day?
[08:44] <Burglaptop> yes, as no news places carry it
[08:45] <Burglaptop> Friday is much better time
[08:45] <mdke> sunday is quickly followed by monday though
[08:45] <Burglaptop> you really want to catch people on the weekend, when they have time to test it
[08:45] <Burglaptop> morning mdke
[08:46] <mdke> morning
[08:47] <Burglaptop> mdke: where are we at with the flash stuff?
[08:47] <jsgotangco> its always been a weekend annoucement lately...
[08:47] <manicka> Madpilot, thanks for the feedabck on userdocbeta :)
[08:48] <Burglaptop> we did get the main page of digg...
[08:48] <Madpilot> manicka: np
[08:48] <Burglaptop> actually, DapperFlight4 did
[08:51] <robitaille> in my mind Flights shouldn't get wide announcements, only RCs and pre-releases.  You don't want to many people going into what is still a somedays broken version of Ubuntu
[08:53] <Burglaptop> robitaille: depends on the audience. Flight announcements only go to -devel-announce and thus only get the geek press, which we want
[08:55] <jsgotangco> the forums are partly attributed to guerilla-style marketing
[08:55] <jsgotangco> either its good or not is subjective
[08:56] <Burglaptop> mdke: you raised the issue of mounted volumes not showing up on the desktop. Was that a bug or a policy decision?
[08:57] <mdke> Burglaptop, i still don't know. There are several bugs open about it
[08:58] <mdke> Burglaptop, flash: I haven't heard anything since my last email last week, i think we've done our part now
[08:58] <Burglaptop> mdke: ok
[08:58] <robitaille> Burglaptop,  since no developpers seem to have got involved in that discusion on the list, I think it is a policy from someone at the top :)
[08:58] <robitaille> personally I prefer the new approach
[08:59] <Burglaptop> the problem becomes that of unmounting them
[08:59] <Burglaptop> it encourages people to just yank USB sticks out
[09:00] <robitaille> disk-mounter applet  is available to put in the panel.  That's what I do
[09:00] <robitaille> I never see icon on the desktop since I always maximize my windows anyway
[09:00] <Burglaptop> yes, but it is not installed by deafult and those I don't consider it a solution
[09:00] <mdke> i agree
[09:01] <mdke> robitaille, the bugs seem to show that at least seb wasn't aware of the decision
[09:01] <robitaille> then that applet should  be a default
[09:01] <robitaille> mdke,  malone number?
[09:01] <jsgotangco> gahhhh 47 spam in -doc just today
[09:02] <Burglaptop> hmm, I noticed I am now seeing gmail spam
[09:02] <Burglaptop> someone must have automated the invite procedure
[09:02] <mdke> robitaille, i don't have it on me
[09:02] <mdke> oh, 28991
[09:02] <robitaille> mdke,  I'll look for them.  I was not aware there were bugs opened on this
[09:03] <robitaille> thanks
[09:03] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: spammed invites to gmail, or spam from gmail addresses?
[09:03] <mdke> 31331
[09:03] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: spam for gmail
[09:04] <Burglaptop> addys
[09:19] <bhuvan> mdke: ping
[09:28] <jsgotangco> mdke, hmmm the server isn't building..or is it a one time cron job?
[09:36] <Burglaptop> oh, we just hit lxer
[09:46] <Burglaptop> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category%3AAirports_in_Palestine&diff=25351526&oldid=24877552
[09:46] <Burglaptop> what do people think of that edit (random question)
[09:47] <mpt__> The "Note:" and the italics are probably unnecessary, other than that it's fine
[09:48] <mpt__> (I realize neither of those things are yours)
[09:48] <Burglaptop> do you think the changed words are less provocative?
[09:48] <mpt__> no
[09:49] <Madpilot> both versions are provocative - but the whole damn area is provocative, so what can you do?
[09:49] <Burglaptop> ya
[09:49] <Burglaptop> the original words are mine, although the software doesn't see as that (due to a copy paste bug)
[09:52] <jsgotangco> airports in palestine
[09:55] <Burglaptop> one of my old projects
[10:05] <mdke> bhuvan, pong
[10:05] <mdke> jsgotangco, once a day
[10:06] <bhuvan> mdke, i have send the email!
[10:06] <jsgotangco> mdke, can it be triggered manually?
[10:06] <mdke> bhuvan, got it and replied :)
[10:06] <mdke> jsgotangco, yes
[10:06] <bhuvan> mdke, cool!
[10:06] <mdke> jsgotangco, which do you want, edubuntu?
[10:06] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:06] <mdke> ok
[10:07] <mdke> done
[10:21] <Burglaptop> night all
[10:22] <glatzor> jsgotangco: hi, you are working on the manual of g-a-i?
[10:22] <glatzor> should we include the help in the g-a-i sources or do you want to distribute it in a global ubuntu-doc package?
[10:23] <jsgotangco> well we talked about it earlier, we'd prefer to have it inthe source package instead of the ubuntu-doc package
[10:24] <glatzor> jsgotangco: fine. do you want to maintain the help in your svn repo?
[10:24] <jsgotangco> glatzor, just for a few more weeks its almost done anyway
[10:24] <jsgotangco> then after that i don't mind getting it from elsewhere
[10:26] <glatzor> jsgotangco: this is no problem. i could ceck out your repository and include the manual into the g-a-i sources.
[10:26] <glatzor> the svn server is up again?
[10:27] <glatzor> jsgotangco: could you please give my the URL. i lost it.
[10:27] <jsgotangco> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/upstream/gnome/gnome-app-install/
[10:29] <glatzor> jsgotangco: do you know if anybody is working on an updated help for update-manager?
[10:31] <jsgotangco> glatzor, none that i know, the original author bailed out recently, do you want me to review it?
[10:31] <glatzor> jsgotangco: this would be very nice.
[10:32] <glatzor> Have you already seen the dist-upgrade tool?
[10:32] <jsgotangco> nope not i haven't been up to speed with mvo's development lately
[10:32] <jsgotangco> i've seen the synaptic changes though
[10:33] <glatzor> i haven't tracked synaptic in the last time.
[10:33] <mvo> jsgotangco: glatzor is a big driving force here :)
[10:33] <jsgotangco> oohhh
[10:33] <glatzor> jsgotangco: do you want to move the figures to the language subfolder C?
[10:34] <jsgotangco> glatzor, hmmm...i'll move it
[10:34] <jsgotangco> i didn't notice it
[10:37] <glatzor> jsgotangco: by the way conglomerate hasn't yet reached a usable state, or? I wrote the synatpci manual using emacs and it was a pain.
[10:39] <jsgotangco> i've been using bluefish and emacs too
[10:39] <jsgotangco> conglomerate is a pain for now
[10:42] <jsgotangco> hold on im booting to dapper and make the changes
[10:47] <jsgotangco> glatzor, ok i should be able to update both manuals tonight
[10:48] <jsgotangco> u-m just needs some minor edits
[11:25] <glatzor> jsgotangco: slow down. you don't need to hurry.
[11:27] <glatzor> it would be nice if you could make some comments if you find some nuisances or inconsistencies in the ui.
[11:29] <jsgotangco> yep i have to update this machine for staters :D
[11:34] <mdke> you'd better check that updates to the documentation are permitted by the string freeze conditions
[11:37] <mdke> it seems to me that the doc group doesn't apply the string freeze to them, but it's rather odd
[11:37] <mdke> because translation is still relevant
[11:37] <jsgotangco> you mean upstream?
[11:37] <jsgotangco> oh
[11:39] <mdke> yes, the gnome string freeze has passed already
[11:48] <jsgotangco> the apps arent part of gnome yet i think
[12:06] <glatzor> jsgotangco: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8948
[12:06] <glatzor> jsgotangco: you are fine with this omf file?
[12:08] <jsgotangco> are we sticking with that name? "Gnome-App-Install"
[12:10] <jsgotangco> mvo, are we sticking with that name "Gnome-App-Install"?
[12:11] <glatzor> jsgotangco: You want a less technical term?
[12:12] <glatzor> "Application Manager", "Application Installer"?
[12:12] <jsgotangco> glatzor, not really, the application itself doesn't say G-A-I
[12:13] <glatzor> jsgotangco: hm? I don't get this.
[12:14] <glatzor> Using the menu item name?
[12:14] <jsgotangco> in ubuntu, its just Applications->Add/Remove
[12:14] <jsgotangco> and the title bar of the app only says Add/Remove Applications
[12:15] <glatzor> ok. let us use "Add/Remove Appliations". you are ok with this?
[12:16] <glatzor> the term "applications" was skipped from the menu since the name  would have been too long and the term app would have been duplicated in the top menu name
[12:22] <jsgotangco> glatzor, i don't mind what its called, but i'm partial to make it have an intuitive name like Gnome Application Manager or the ones you mentioned...
[12:23] <glatzor> jsgotangco: the term "Gnome" could be skipped. It is of no or minor value to the user.
[12:23] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:24] <glatzor> jsgotangco: so should we take the menu item name or the other one?
[12:24] <glatzor> mvo: do you want to join the discussion?
[12:25] <glatzor> jsgotangco: mvo: the build system is now in place.
[12:26] <mvo> glatzor: what bit excactly?
[12:28] <glatzor> What name we should use for g-a-i in the documentation. gnome-app-install is "ugly" and too technical.
[12:28] <glatzor> furthermore the app itself uses "add/remove applications" and not g-a-i
[12:29] <mvo> is "Add/remove applications" a good name?
[12:29] <glatzor> so should we use "Application Manager" or "Add/Remove Applications"
[12:29] <mvo> I personally like "application installer"
[12:29] <glatzor> mvo: ok. then we take this one.
[12:29] <mvo> but that is maybe too technical?
[12:29] <glatzor> mvo: oh, i refered to the "Add/remove" in my last post
[12:30] <glatzor> The problem is that g-a-i also removes apps.
[12:30] <glatzor> i don't like the idea of using an installer to unsinstall something
[12:31] <jsgotangco> oh the repository list was removed i didnt notice that
[12:31] <mvo> ok
[12:31] <mvo> that makes sense
[12:31] <glatzor> we could place the manual in the root of the applications direcotry in the yelp tree
[12:34] <glatzor> jsgotangco: mvo: furthermore "install or remove applications" would be better than the char "/"
[12:34] <glatzor> jsgotangco: mvo: you are fine with this?
[12:35] <jsgotangco> it does make sense though
[12:36] <glatzor> i am away for some minutes
[12:36] <jsgotangco> ok i'll make some minor edits to the doc the ping you
[12:37] <mvo> yes,that sounds good
[12:44] <jsgotangco> mvo, i'm confused here...what do we call it exactly?
[12:44] <glatzor> jsgotangco: "Add or remove applications"
[12:45] <glatzor> jsgotangco: "Install or remove applications"
[12:45] <glatzor> the later one
[12:45] <glatzor> jsgotangco: or replace "or" by "and"
[12:45] <glatzor> "Install and remove applications"
[12:45] <glatzor> this is the final one
[12:47] <jsgotangco> ok that looks better
[12:50] <glatzor> mvo: gdebi will go into main? if yes we could add a note to the g-a-i manual to install package files by double-clicking
[12:50] <mvo> I think it will, I have a ok from matt
[12:51] <glatzor> it will also be part of ubuntu-desktop?
[12:54] <glatzor> jsgotangco: if the section or repository of an app is not in the sources.list a button appears in the description that allows to add the repository
[12:55] <glatzor> jsgotangco: there is a also bug in the clearlooks theme. that is why you don't see if an app is installable or not.
[12:55] <glatzor> if you cannot install an app the checkbutton is insenstive. but clearlooks doesn't handle this case and draws an unchecked button
[12:56] <glatzor> jsgotangco: i hope that this will be fixed soon.
[12:56] <glatzor> jsgotangco: if you use another theme like e.g. raleigh you see the right behavior of the checkbutton
[12:59] <jsgotangco> hmm i see it
[01:33] <glatzor> jsgotangco: gnome-app-install does not need to run as root at startup time anymore. so no neeed for "sudo gnome-app-install"
[01:34] <jsgotangco> yes i'm editing it now
[01:34] <jsgotangco> it only asks when its about to intsall an app
[01:44] <mvo> jsgotangco:  or when it wants to add a channel/component
[02:29] <jsgotangco> wow pngcrush is good
[03:01] <jjesse> robotgeek_away: make sure you check out the new adept installer ofr the desktop guide, i will be adding it as part of the release notes
[03:03] <jsgotangco> jjesse, hey!
[03:03] <jjesse> hey jsgotangco
[03:04] <jsgotangco> jjesse, have you used pngcrush?
[03:04] <jjesse> jsgotangco nope
[03:04] <jsgotangco> jjesse, download it then use it after taking a screenshot :D
[03:04] <jsgotangco> it
[03:04] <jsgotangco> it'll reduce the size of the image
[03:04] <jjesse> cool
[03:04] <jjesse> have you tried the new adept yet ?
[03:05] <jsgotangco> nope...not yet..i'm finishing the g-a-i manual
[03:05] <jjesse> ah
[03:05] <jjesse> updating system right now
[06:50] <Burgwork> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3375/106/ <-- we just got slammed
[06:54] <LaserJock> Burgwork: OMG, I can
[06:54] <LaserJock> can't believe that guy didn't know he needed to bur .iso's
[06:54] <Burgwork> LaserJock, a common error and an honest mistake
[06:56] <LaserJock> why? all installation cd's are .iso's
[06:57] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess I just assumed the guy had at least installed Linux once before
[06:57] <dsas> maybe he doesn't burn iso's too often......I remember burning the iso file onto the cd, rather than burning an iso image to cd.
[06:58] <dsas> s/burn isos/download iso
[06:58] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I've just been at this game to long. I don't think I ever did that
[06:59] <dsas> heh, I did, after I'd installed linux a half dozen times, and considered myself a "power user" for a long time...
[06:59] <dsas> dragging and dropping an iso file in Nero doesn't/didn't do what you expect...at least I think it was nero.
[07:00] <LaserJock> hmm, so maybe the download page should have a little note saying that you need to a program capabable of burning .iso files?
[07:28] <dsas> or a link to the installation help wiki page.
[07:31] <Burgwork> LaserJock, I will edit the master page later so that it links to that wiki page
[07:31] <LaserJock> I think they should have a note on the download pages itself IMHO
[07:32] <LaserJock> but then I've never really liked the Ubuntu website very much. So maybe it's just me
[07:34] <dsas> well hopefully it'll be fixed soon, there's a wikipage on it somewhere.
[07:36] <Burgwork> the ubuntu website is a mess, but I currently don;t have the time to fix it
[07:37] <LaserJock> Burgwork: how many people work on the Ubuntu website?
[07:39] <Burgwork> LaserJock, currently just hendrik, but Mako and I have edit privs
[07:39] <LaserJock> I see
[07:39] <Burgwork> if you want to work on a specific page, I can copy it to the wiki and then you can edit it and I can copy it back
[07:40] <LaserJock> I don't think I have time right now, but I'll keep it in mind for the future
[07:40] <Burgwork> ok
[07:41] <LaserJock> I've been looking at some of the -sounder emails
[07:50] <Burgwork> LaserJock, edited the main page, should be up with an hour or so
[07:51] <LaserJock> cool
[08:07] <mdke> you can ping me for edits too
[08:07] <Burgwork> salut mdke
[08:07] <mdke> hiya
[09:33] <Burgwork> funny how Ubuntu/Fedora/Suse have synced up so they all release alphas within 3 days of each other
[09:35] <mdke> who knows why we still have the gnome-user-guide in our repo
[09:35] <mdke> ?
[09:35] <mdke> js
[09:36] <Burgwork> kill it
[09:36] <Burgwork> it is old and we agreed to nuke upstream stuff a while back
[09:38] <mdke> ok that sounds right
[10:14] <jjesse> test message
[10:16] <mdke> jjesse, successful
[10:18] <jjesse> thanks
[10:46] <Burgwork> mdke, ouch --> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiLicenseTalk
[11:42] <mdke> Burgwork, looks a bit anal to me
[11:44] <Burgwork> mdke, change licenses is a mess and needs to be anal


[16:33] <mark06> help please, http://vpaste.net/aMDor
[16:33] <mark06> bzr 2.7.0dev1
[16:37] <jelmer> mark06: that's a known issue; see the udd bug tracker
[16:39] <mark06> ok so currently I'm stuck and can't use UDD for this package, right?
[16:41] <jelmer> mark06: there is some option you can set to prevent this
[16:42] <jelmer> mark06: the bug report has details
[16:42] <mark06> I asked in packaging channel but no answer... any suggestion on the following issue?
[16:44] <mark06> it's been a while since I used PPAs and I moved from bare patches to bzr branch, which doesn't fit well with non-UDD packaging... I started my custom pidgin as a bzr branch based on upstream's tarball, well...
[16:45] <mark06> I guess I need to merge all ubuntu-specific changes introduced by the package, I can't simply build my own package from scratch... that'd be easy if I based my branch on the above (if it was ever working)... so I could simply merge....
[16:47] <mark06> so what approach should I do? I'm thinking of doing a bare diff and try applying in the source package... that isn't much elegant as from source code point of view all my commits will be compressed into a single big diff.... but I see no other way... suggestions?
[16:52] <mark06> is there any command to convert a series of commits into a series of separate patch files?
[17:14] <mark06> is it possible to undo an specific commit in a branch? reverse cherry picking?
[17:22] <jelmer> mark06: there is uncommit, or reverse cherry pick
[17:48] <mark06> done, thanks
[18:11] <mark06> what should I use as replacement for bzr builddeb, since I can't do UDD?
[18:18] <mark06> bzr -Olaunchpad.packaging_verbosity=off?
[18:19] <LeoNerd> jelmer: Offhand, do you know the latest progress on bzr-git, and the dulwich version problem? I'm still getting:  bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'BazaarObjectStore' object has no attribute 'get_graph_walker'
[18:42] <jelmer> mark06: yeah, that will disable the freshness check that is buggy
[18:42] <jelmer> (the exception you ran into before)
[18:44] <jelmer> LeoNerd: nobody is working on bzr-git as far as I know
[18:44] <mark06> took a bit long but worked, thanks!
[18:45] <LeoNerd> jelmer: :(
[18:55] <mark06> is it possible to somehow merge diverging branches?
[18:56] <LeoNerd> Hah.. I have an interesting solution to bzr-git here. It seems the bzr-git plugin can checkout, and can do the pushing parts of commit/push, but can't actually fetch and update.
[18:56] <LeoNerd> So you can make a new checkout, in which you're allowed exactly one commit before it breaks.
[18:56] <LeoNerd> But that commit does at least make it back to github or wherever; so you can just blow away that checkout and make another one for next time. \o/
[19:04] <mark06> bzr status
[19:38] <jelmer> LeoNerd: I might have a look at fixing it for the purpose of git-remote-bzr at some point
[21:37] <mark06> is there any way to tweak bzr builddeb so it doesn't rely on the package version for fetching the upstream version?
[21:37] <jelmer> mark06: that's how debian packaging works, unless I'm misunderstanding?
[21:38] <mark06> I want to use version like 1:2.9.0-rs137-0ubuntu3.1 but it thinks upstream is 1:2.9.0-rs137
[21:39] <mark06> but this is very inconvenient for a *feature* ppa, it's really annoying that every debian/ubuntu update supersedes your features... then the user always get bizarre regression alternations...
[21:40] <mark06> I mean, it's inconvenient to attach rs137 after ubuntu3.1
[21:40] <mark06> unless there's a way to avoid this odd superseding
[21:41] <jelmer> mark06: what does rs137 indicate?
[21:41] <mark06> I didn't get well what exactly makes it guess what the upstream version is like
[21:41] <jelmer> mark06: it just uses the standard format for Debian packages
[21:42] <jelmer> even if you would get bzr-builddeb to use a different upstream version string, all other debian tools would break
[21:42] <mark06> rs137 is my naming scheme for my feature/bug patches to pidgin... http://pidgin.renatosilva.me/
[21:42] <jelmer> mark06: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[21:42] <jelmer> mark06: if they're changes to the upstream branch and not the packaging, then you indeed want rs137 in the upstream version (as that reflects reality)
[21:44] <mark06> what I mean is given 1:2.9.0-rs137-0ubuntu3.1, why it splits into 1:2.9.0-rs137 ("the upstream") and 0ubuntu3.1, and given 1:2.9.0-0ubuntu3.1-rs137, why it splits into 1:2.9.0 (correct upstream) and 0ubuntu3.1-rs137? the rule is unclear to me
[21:46] <mark06> but in that case the diff from "2.10.9-rs137" upstream  would be essentially void from actual changes and include only debian/ubuntu packaging changes... even so, I don't know how to make it find "2.10.9-rs137" since I am trying to create the very source package and that one still doesn't exist
[21:53] <mark06> is that really the workflow, let this bizarre regression alternation just happen? what ppa developers are expected to do? foresee an upcoming debian/ubuntu update and build before that?
[21:53] <mark06> it would be nice if it automatically merged the debian/ubuntu changes into the ppa
[22:12] <mark06> hmmm I kind of cheated it with 1:2.10.9-rs137+0ubuntu3.1
[22:12] <mark06> it likes the '-0', it seems
[23:25] <mark06> so bzr builddeb could be smarter and create the patch from commit diff
[23:25] <mark06> it rather ignores all the dvcs thing and asks you to dpkg --commit or something, in a bare patch...
[23:26] <jelmer> mark06: that's not bzr-builddeb asking it, but dpkg
[23:28] <mark06> right, but bzr let it happen... it could have handled it automatically since the idea of UDD is not dealing with raw patches anymore right...
[23:35] <jelmer> mark06: it could suggest you run "bzr dep3-patch" instead, I guess


[04:45] <ProfMac> I think you are in the right channel.  I generated my first .seed file this summer, including some fancy disk partitioning.  The process seemed fragile.  One thing I learned is that Pangolin 12.04 does not support much of what I was trying to do.  Trusty 14.04 supports it much better, and I am pinned to it for other reasons.  I suspect 16.04 is even better, but I haven't gone there yet.  So ... disclosing which base di
[04:45] <ProfMac> stro is an important piece of intelligence.  I came up to speed on git after I finished producing a .seed file that worked for me.  Even as we speed I am making design decisions on how to design my distribution.  I think I will switch to multiple CD/DVD .iso images what contain .git repositories.  These can be checked out by commit number so that the software is pinned.  I also generate sha256 to report back, just to v
[04:45] <ProfMac> erify that things went well.  I went to CDs in lieu of scp because I could separate the two processes in time, but that is a special case of poor communication.
[04:46] <ProfMac> A now obsolete version of my preseed install is available on https://github.com/a-mcintosh/Trusty-preseed.git, if you have time to look.
[09:30] <zduniak> that's quite interesting, though after fighting with the installer I think I'll just stick to only pinning the additionally installed software and trusting ubuntu to not break anything
[09:30] <zduniak> it seems that for truly "iot" devices, a proper yocto-based distribution is by far a better solution
[09:32] <zduniak> I didn't see any packaging stuff in there, so I assume that you just used the local networking for any installation


[18:43]  * wxl pokes polson8
[18:44] <wxl> polson8: if it's modern country we might have an issue ;)
[18:44] <wxl> polson8: if you like, on the other hand, bluegrass, we even have our own bluegrass jam :)
[18:45] <polson8> yes I'm here. :) didn't realize a different window was beeping. I'd give the bluegrass a listen, but honestly my Pandora setup would probably worry some people. It started out as country and somehow songs like "bad girlfriend" started popping up. of course, just because I'm a geek doesn't mean I'm good at things that don't have a command prompt :)
[18:46] <wxl> hahahahahah
[18:46] <wxl> there is the whole right wing crowd. i'm sure they'd be down with the modern country :)
[18:47] <polson8> oh... I steer clear of politics... not sure that crowd would like me
[18:47] <wxl> hahaha
[18:48] <wxl> oh time to help some people out
[18:48] <wxl> chat soon
[18:48] <polson8> ok have fun :)
[19:12] <bkerensa> :D
[19:47] <wxl> back
[19:47] <wxl> hi bkerensa
[19:49] <polson8> wxl, regarding when I mentioned ubuntu running slow earlier... I changed the processors setting in virtualBox from 1 to 2 and it's a lot better now. still thinking to try lubuntu as soon as I can download it though :)
[19:50] <wxl> polson8: i don't NEED lubuntu for my current laptop but i like it a lot better.
[19:50] <polson8> if you don't need lubuntu on it, what else would you run?
[19:54] <wxl> polson8: well, e.g. i might run ubuntu or xubuntu or kubuntu etc
[19:54] <polson8> oh good. I was afraid you were talking about windows :)
[19:55] <wxl> ew heck no
[19:55] <wxl> when i got my new laptop, it came preloaded with windows 7
[19:55] <wxl> i never even booted it before i had linux on there
[19:55] <wxl> :)
[19:56] <polson8> that was about my reaction! yeah, ironically the fact that windows is part of the purchase price is a deterrent when I think about upgrading. my laptop is over 5 years old.
[20:01] <wxl> polson8: i think a lot of the other desktop environments get in the way of work.
[20:01] <wxl> (going back to lubuntu)
[20:02] <polson8> I've been pretty happy with icewm :)
[20:03] <wxl> so you're not using a desktop environment?
[20:03] <wxl> (for full disclosure, i use lubuntu but i've replaced openbox with awesomewm)
[20:04] <polson8> not on this desktop. the ubuntu VM looks like one would expect ubuntu to look... I haven't broken anything yet, but then only installed it recently, like the weekend
[20:04] <polson8> is it pretty easy to change the window manager on lubuntu?
[20:04] <wxl> yeah
[20:05] <polson8> cool. maybe just for kicks, I'll try several. i'll be back in a few minutes...
[20:05] <wxl> i think i just set lxsession to use the default window manager
[20:05] <wxl> and then used update-alternatives to change that
[20:12] <polson8> nice, i'll have to try that since I've only been using icewm most of the time.


[07:57] <dholbach> good morning
[14:52] <persia> Team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 8 minutes
[15:00] <persia> Team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starting now


[12:52] <lderan> knome: hey, sorry i haven't gotten the meetingology fixes to you yet, been on holiday this past week :P
[12:52] <lderan> have founds the bits needing the changes so shouldn't be much bother
[12:53] <knome> lderan, no problem. how was the holiday?
[12:53] <lderan> it mainly consisted of snow & rain, the wonderful land of England.
[12:53] <knome> mmh
[12:54] <lderan> :P
[12:54] <knome> i took a few days off too, back today in the home office working
[12:54] <knome> i hate when i have a holiday and stuff piles up
[12:55] <lderan> aye that is a pain
[12:56] <knome> especially after longer time off, since then it's hard to get the wheels rolling anyway...
[12:58] <lderan> indeed it is
[12:59] <knome> anyway, i got all the stuff scheduled for today done
[12:59] <knome> bbl
[13:00] <lderan> awesome!
[16:48] <dlumberg> anyone have a link to the bug tracker?
[16:53] <dlumberg> when booting with a second monitor attached the "appearance" settings don't work
[16:53] <dlumberg> where should I report that?
[16:55] <pleia2> dlumberg: you'll want to use the "ubuntu-bug" command line tool, but I'm not sure which package just yet
[16:55] <pleia2> (hopefully someone else knows :))
[16:56] <ochosi> dlumberg: what do you mean "isn't working anymore"?
[16:57] <dlumberg> it boots with the default what used to be gtk theme (not the window manager)
[16:57] <dlumberg> and trying to change the Settings Manager > Appearance settings does nothing
[16:57] <Unit193> xfce4-settings is the package, in case it comes to that.
[16:58] <dlumberg> ok
[16:59] <ochosi> dlumberg: if you run xfce4-appearance-settings from terminal and then try to change your theme, do you get any error messages?
[17:00] <dlumberg> I can't reboot right now to test, but I will later
[17:01] <dlumberg> does it just log into syslog?
[17:01] <ochosi> i'd check ~/.xsession-errors
[17:05] <dlumberg> these are the only 2 that I see that might be related, the rest are nm-applet, xfce4-indicator-plugin and thunar-volman
[17:05] <dlumberg> [2399:2399:0402/123912:ERROR:omnibox_view_gtk.cc(431)] Not implemented reached in virtual void OmniboxViewGtk::ApplyCaretVisibility()
[17:05] <dlumberg> NVIDIA: could not open the device file /dev/nvidia0 (Operation not permitted).
[17:31] <dlumberg> no errors from the command line
[17:32] <dlumberg> on an unrelated note I think I need to add a swap file, it seems that 16GB ram isn't enough to compile android w/o running out and crashing
[17:35] <dlumberg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1163477
[17:39] <dlumberg> and now to reboot again to get my theme back
[22:52] <ochosi> skellat: rrring
[22:52] <ochosi> (=ping)
[23:54] <skellat> ochosi: What's up?


[14:58] <dzho> oh hey anyone here in OH-12?
[14:58] <dzho> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio's_12th_congressional_district#/media/File:Ohio_US_Congressional_District_12_(since_2013).tif
[14:58] <jenni> [ Ohio's 12th congressional district - Wikipedia ] - https://bit.ly/2NWTEPc
[14:58] <dzho> I see there's an election coming up