[00:00] <assos> Hi, I've got a computer with intel 82801DB-ICH4 integrated sound, that I'm trying to get working with xubuntu - everything works, except the sound - it seems to be detected, but I get no output can anyone help me?
[00:11] <ochosi> assos, tried alsamixer in terminal and there unmute every channel?
[00:11] <assos> yup
[00:13] <ochosi> assos, tried upgrading alsa by hand? looked in the alsa bugtracker for your card?
[01:01] <ochosi> my background list in xubuntu forgets newly added items upon restart (apart from the active wallpaper), does this work for anyone here?
[01:02] <ochosi> this is a bug i already noticed in karmic
[01:02] <ochosi> and i was wondering whether i'm the only one
[10:37] <ochosi> my background list in xubuntu forgets newly added items upon restart (apart from the active wallpaper), does this work for anyone here?
[10:37] <ochosi> this is a bug i already noticed in karmic
[10:40] <TheSheep> same here
[10:41] <ochosi> this can't be the desired behavior, can it?
[10:43] <ochosi> guess i'll check whether this is an issue upstream too
[11:55] <_L30_> hello i have a issue with virtualbox guest additions
[11:57] <_L30_> they seem to not work
[11:58] <drizzt_> _L30_, try 3.2
[11:58] <_L30_> yes Im with that
[11:58] <drizzt_> _L30_, had you any compile errors?
[11:58] <_L30_> are you able to get a good mouse interface
[11:59] <drizzt_> _L30_, yes it seamless
[11:59] <_L30_> drizzt_: yes unable to build kernel modules
[11:59] <_L30_> some error like that
[11:59] <drizzt_> _L30_, then you should check build log
[11:59] <_L30_> but later installation proceeds
[11:59] <_L30_> log of virtual box?
[12:00] <_L30_> there is no error listed there aswell
[12:00] <drizzt_> _L30_, no, when you're running additions installer it writes log
[12:01] <drizzt_> check for it in /var/log on guest system
[12:01] <_L30_> yea error : unable to find your linux kernel sources
[12:02] <_L30_> how do i fix that
[12:03] <drizzt_> _L30_, install linux-headers-<digits as your current kernel is>
[12:03] <_L30_> ya i ran the update and linux kernel headers got installed
[12:03] <_L30_> even then the problem persists
[12:04] <drizzt_> _L30_, do you have compiler installed?
[12:05] <_L30_> yes drizzt_ every update installed
[12:05] <_L30_> sudo apt-get update
[12:05] <_L30_> i ran that and installed them
[12:05] <_L30_> and some installation went on for some 30mins
[12:05] <drizzt_> _L30_, strange, it should work :(
[12:05] <_L30_> ubuntu is working fine
[12:05] <_L30_> problem is just with xubuntu
[12:06] <_L30_> i am working to make a virtual appliance ...without this guest additions its a tough job :(
[12:16] <_L30_> drizzt_: shall i go with installing 2.6.32-22
[12:16] <_L30_> manually?
[12:17] <drizzt_> _L30_, it's a current kernel, you should have it and headers already installed
[12:19] <_L30_> ahh gkms issue :P
[12:19] <_L30_> dkms*
[12:26] <_L30_> drizzt_: wierd thing they werent installed :P
[12:35] <_L30_> drizzt_: fixed thanks for your help :
[14:11] <stoffus> hi
[14:12] <stoffus> i just tried to install xubuntu but after picking "install ubuntu" in the bootscreen the graphics for the installation are somehow broken. I can only see vertical stripes with different colors and can't recognize anything...does maybe anyone know what i can do? =)
[14:16] <TheSheep> safe graphics mode comes to mind
[14:19] <stoffus> how do i call it??
[14:19] <stoffus> or can i somehow start a console/text version of the installation?
[14:22] <Pres-Gas> stoffus, you could use the alternate CD.
[16:32] <midoubleko> anyone know how to enable 3rd level keys in xubuntu? the hash key is usualy alt-3 and euro sign alt-2 but they don't seem to work
[16:34] <schlaftier> midoubleko: Alt or AltGr?
[16:34] <midoubleko> what is AltGr?
[16:35] <schlaftier> midoubleko: the key on the right hand side of the space bar
[16:35] <schlaftier> the left is Alt, right is AltGr
[16:35] <midoubleko> no the left hand alt
[16:35] <schlaftier> Are you on a Mac? Because usually only AltGr is used for these IIRC
[16:36] <midoubleko> yeah its a mac
[16:36] <midoubleko> altgr doesn't work either
[16:37] <schlaftier> it did for me, well... are you sure you are using the right keyboard layout? I enabled a Mac keyboard layout during installation
[16:37] <schlaftier> Actually, that shouldn't be an issue, though
[16:37] <midoubleko> yeah it's a mac gb keyboard layout
[16:37] <schlaftier> best is probably if you open a terminal, type xev and press Alt key to see what the computer thinks it is
[16:37] <midoubleko> and it was an install from ubuntu
[16:38] <midoubleko> ok
[16:39] <midoubleko> it says its Alt_L and the right one is super g or something
[16:39] <schlaftier> okay
[16:40] <schlaftier> what you can do is create a file .Xmodmap in your home directory
[16:40] <midoubleko> ok
[16:40] <midoubleko> where can i find what syntax to use
[16:41] <midoubleko> i suppose i should just google it
[16:41] <schlaftier> I think this will suffice: add mod5 = Alt_L
[16:41] <schlaftier> then log out and in again and try
[16:41] <midoubleko> ok
[16:41] <schlaftier> btw.
[16:42] <schlaftier> Shift-Alt should work too
[16:42] <midoubleko> thanks
[16:43] <midoubleko> logging out will see if this works
[16:46] <midoubleko> no didn't work
[16:47] <schlaftier> midoubleko: okay, maybe you have to source the file manually
[16:47] <schlaftier> try in a terminal: xmodmap .Xmodap
[16:47] <schlaftier> try in a terminal: xmodmap .Xmodmap
[16:47] <schlaftier> and see what happens
[16:47] <midoubleko> ok
[16:48] <Sysi> by default xfce overruns xmodmap
[16:48] <Sysi> see keyboard settings
[16:48] <midoubleko> mikko@mikko-desktop:~$ xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap
[16:48] <midoubleko> X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
[16:48] <midoubleko>   Major opcode of failed request:  118 (X_SetModifierMapping)
[16:48] <schlaftier> Ah, suppose my keyboard settings say "use whatever X uses"
[16:48] <midoubleko>   Value in failed request:  0x17
[16:48] <midoubleko>   Serial number of failed request:  11
[16:48] <midoubleko>   Current serial number in output stream:  11
[16:48] <schlaftier> oh
[16:49] <schlaftier> is there an integer in your .Xmodmap at all?
[16:50] <midoubleko> mod5
[16:50] <midoubleko> like you said
[16:51] <schlaftier> Maybe it's because of what Sysi said... see the Xfce keyboard settings
[16:51] <midoubleko> i played around in there but can't find settings for third level keys
[17:16] <Gabbriel> what's up people?
[17:38] <mil_arg> Hi! help me, please
[17:38] <Sysi> what's up
[17:38] <mil_arg> i have Xubuntu in my notebook, 9.04
[17:39] <mil_arg> i want upgrade to 10.4
[17:39] <mil_arg> but CD-ROM not found
[17:39] <mil_arg> and USB dont boot
[17:40] <mil_arg> from my xubuntu i cant install new xubuntu 10.4?
[17:40] <charlie-tca> you can't install directly from the installed desktop, no
[17:41] <charlie-tca> you could run update-manager and upgrade to 9.10, then upgrade to 10.04, though
[17:41] <mil_arg> ohhh! no!
[17:42] <charlie-tca> there is no direct upgrade from 9.04 to 10.04
[17:43] <mil_arg> then, with my iso 10.4 from xubuntu 9.04 running nothing to do
[17:43] <charlie-tca> correct, the only way to go direct from 9.04 to 10.04 is a new installation of 10.04
[17:44] <mil_arg> ok, but CD-Rom is broken and my notebook dont boot from USB... How?
[17:46] <charlie-tca> In that case, you would do the upgrades
[17:47] <mil_arg> from internet?
[17:52] <charlie-tca> yes, using update-manager
[17:54] <mil_arg> ok, thanks charlie-tca!
[17:55] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseNotes#Upgrading
[18:23] <_L30_> hey when i run synaptic i get a error unable to run xauthorization
[19:14] <renata> hello, I have a problem, I cannot boot lucid liveCD. I've tried to install with alternate, but it wont boot after install. Please help
[19:18] <charlie-tca> renata: the liveCD failed to run for your system, so you installed with the alternate cd and the installation fails, now. Where it the boot stop?
[19:19] <renata> charlie-tca, that's correct, I hangs after ugly splash
[19:20] <charlie-tca> what kind of video card?
[19:21] <renata> no idea, I've never used any propety drivers on that laptop, it ran like miracle with karmic
[19:21] <charlie-tca> hit right-shift to get the grub menu, then try editing the menu to remove "quiet splash" for a one time boot. It should show you errors messages that will help.
[19:22] <_L30_> hey i liked to previous boot screen of xubuntu
[19:22] <_L30_> any way to get it back?
[19:22] <_L30_> i mean the xsplash of 9.10
[19:22] <charlie-tca> not that I know of
[19:23] <charlie-tca> xsplash was replaced by plymouth in 10.04
[19:23] <_L30_> ooh :(
[19:23] <_L30_> i cant get it back ?
[19:24] <charlie-tca> You could try google and see if someone knows how.
[19:24] <_L30_> no help there
[19:24] <_L30_> so crept in here :)
[19:25] <charlie-tca> They are not compatible, so it probably is not possible at this time
[19:25] <_L30_> hmm
[19:25] <_L30_> burg can help?
[19:25] <renata> charlie-tca, I cannot get to grub menu,
[19:26] <charlie-tca> renata: tried switching screens with Ctrl+Alt+F1 or F4?
[19:26] <charlie-tca> I think your video card may have been obsoleted. Thus when the liveCD would not work, neither will the install, normally
[19:27] <charlie-tca> _L30_: burg ?? I don't this word
[19:27] <_L30_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Burg
[19:28] <renata> charlie-tca, it was all fine before reinstall... well not really, but at least it worked
[19:28] <charlie-tca> Probably have to go back to 9.10, then
[19:29] <renata> charlie-tca, thanks, I'll try that. Pitty I cannot get 10.04 working
[19:29] <_L30_> renata: even you can check that
[19:29] <charlie-tca> agreed. This might help ?? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Resolution
[19:29] <_L30_> might help you
[19:30] <charlie-tca> _L30_: seems highly experimental
[19:30] <renata> charlie-tca, I do not understat a thing :)
[19:30] <_L30_> charlie-tca: i worked it out earlier
[19:31] <_L30_> i had my own welcome screen and grub loader with that
[19:31] <charlie-tca> still seems experimental. You are replacing Grub2 with something else
[19:34] <renata> So what is your best suggestion? Run karmic again?
[19:36] <_L30_> my work customizing xubuntu to the very extent that it looks my way :)
[19:36] <renata> can I boot the lucid liveCD with, let's say, xvesa, or sth?
[19:37] <charlie-tca> renata: you could try hitting F6 on the livecd and adding 'nomodeset' to the line.
[19:38] <charlie-tca> That is the equivalent to 'vesa' mode now
[19:39] <charlie-tca> If it works, you can use the livecd to modify the /etc/default/grub file to include that line on the installation
[19:39] <_L30_> charlie-tca: is of good help here ; i must say :)
[19:39] <charlie-tca> some days I can even do someone some good
[19:39] <renata> charlie-tca, this fails for though
[19:39] <_L30_> you are the one to reply me always :)
[19:39] <renata> charlie-tca, it still hangs after splash
[19:40] <charlie-tca> renata: I am out of ideas then. Only suggestion left is go back to karmic. Sorry
[19:41] <charlie-tca> you didn't remove quiet splash from the line?
[19:41] <renata> no, not really
[19:41] <charlie-tca> try it. remove them and add 'nomodeset'
[19:47] <renata> charlie-tca, no luck, just a buch of errors
[19:47] <charlie-tca> what kind of errors?
[19:48] <charlie-tca> are they pretty much the same or many different ones?
[19:48] <_L30_> renata: did you check the checksum?
[19:50] <renata> charlie-tca, many different one, I even cannot write them down. It seems the CD tries to load, but skips many things
[19:50] <renata> _L30_, no, I did not do that
[19:50] <charlie-tca> bad burn or bad download
[19:50] <_L30_> that can be issues many times
[19:50] <_L30_> just check that
[19:51] <renata> md5sum give me nothing on that iso
[19:51] <charlie-tca> Might want to try downloading from a different site, too. The mirror could be scrambled
[19:56] <renata> do I need any extra package to check md5sum?
[19:57] <charlie-tca> !md5
[20:01] <renata> I still cannot get my md5sum check, I get nothing after md5sum [iso]
[20:05] <charlie-tca> That would be 'not too good' type thing
[20:07] <renata> please, is there any package to check md5? I cannot get it checked
[20:11] <charlie-tca> this line fails to give anything? md5sum xubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso
[20:11] <charlie-tca> you do have to cd to the download directory
[20:12] <renata> charlie-tca, that's right, it does not give anything, terminal hangs
[20:14] <charlie-tca> It does take it about 2 minutes to return the checksum
[20:14] <renata> charlie-tca, ok, ill wait then :)
[20:15] <charlie-tca> and that's on a fast system
[20:16] <charlie-tca> you get a very long freeze, because it is calculating the md5sum for the cd, it just seems frozen
[20:18] <renata> charlie-tca, thanks, this was not mentioned on tutorial, it does seem as if md5sum command leads nowhere. Thanks
[20:18] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:18] <charlie-tca> My 64bit cd is taking more than 3 minutes
[20:19] <charlie-tca> cd
[20:21] <renata> charlie-tca, the md5sum is correct, that for a CD image that I got from another mirror, I'll try burning that and see it burns. I'll take some 10 mins. If that fails, I get to karmic again
[20:21] <charlie-tca> good luck
[20:31] <renata> charlie-tca, no luck
[20:31] <renata> charlie-tca, is there anyway get my laptop (which is not that old) boot lucid?
[20:31] <charlie-tca> I guess it is back to karmic, then. Keep an eye open, they may find a fix
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Tried everything that I know to try
[20:33] <charlie-tca> Is there still a 'safe graphics' mode on the livecd?
[20:33] <renata> charlie-tca, karmic ran fine, but one day my sister (who is using that laptop) got to me saying "nothing is working". The setting were set to default, programs crashed and so. no idea what happed. Thats why i went to reinstall
[20:33] <charlie-tca> Used to be hit F4, cursor to 'safe graphics', hit enter, hit escape, hit enter to install
[20:34] <charlie-tca> Almost sounds like it could be a hard drive failure. Try the karmic install and see if it will work.
[20:35] <charlie-tca> There is also the 'install karmic (9.10), then upgrade using 'update-manager' to 10.04
[20:35] <renata> charlie-tca, i've managed to save the data though
[20:35] <charlie-tca> sometimes that works when everything else fails
[20:35] <renata> thanks
[20:40] <renata> stdin: error 0
[20:40] <renata> this is what I get after pressing f4 on slash
[20:40] <renata> it's the same
[20:41] <renata> sorry, when I press esc on splash
[20:41] <renata> charlie-tca, 'shadow passwords are now on"
[20:42] <charlie-tca> Can you turn them off?
[20:43] <charlie-tca> shouldn't really make any difference
[20:45] <renata> charlie-tca, as Ive mentioned before, it seems as if CD wants to load but nothing happens


[17:01] <alex-weej> pain pain pain
[17:02] <alex-weej> trying to configure settings for synaptic touchpad (two-fingered scroll) whilst leaving a working device for a bluetooth mightymouse intact
[17:02] <alex-weej> pretty common use case i'd say, but impossible to do without diving into xorg.conf ?
[20:35] <alex-weej> hey bryce, do you think you could mentor me on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ColourProfilesForDisplays ?
[20:35] <alex-weej> i think it's within reach of me this summer...


[00:06]  * johnc4510 who takes care of putting ubottu in the team channels?
[02:25] <mneptok> Pici: yeah, me too. i'm now getting unacceptable amounts of grief about not being a member.
[02:26]  * jdong cries about not being back home for another week, particuarly after seeing some photos of the driveway from this morning....
[03:24] <SeaPhor> Hello, bazhang asked me to come back here after 2 days, its been that and a little more, after many discussions with several people, many that have been here a long time some that are new, I would appreciate the opportunity to return to #ubuntu
[03:30] <SeaPhor> anyone?
[03:37] <mneptok> j
[03:37] <mneptok> do you understand why you were banned?
[03:38] <SeaPhor> yes, did you read my apology?
[03:38] <mneptok> i don't see it
[03:39] <mneptok> you mean above, at **:23?
[03:39] <SeaPhor> in the pastebin,
[03:40] <mneptok> i have not
[03:41] <SeaPhor> i made another statement there that i believed at the time but after some council with others, i now uderstand better
[03:41] <SeaPhor> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11972/
[03:43] <SeaPhor> my offense was against bazhang, and i apologized to him/her personally in pm and publicly in that paste
[03:43] <SeaPhor> and it was against the channel that it was off-topic and wasteing ppls time
[03:50] <mneptok> OK, i would recommend you not take offense so easily
[03:51] <mneptok> who cares what some guy on IRC says about Americans?
[03:51] <mneptok> it's .... *some guy on IRC* ;)
[03:54] <SeaPhor> yeah,,, i know, i tookit way too far, i just couldn't believe no one else didnt say anything,thats when bazhang said he missed it and i guess that got me even more,,, thats where i should hav just pm'd him or another to say how wrong it was instead of in channel
[03:55] <SeaPhor> *him being bazhang or another op,,, not the other guy
[03:55] <mneptok> even so, why even care?
[03:55] <mneptok> know what i mean?
[03:58] <SeaPhor> well if i would have just pm'd baz and let him know that i took offense and that there may be others that do to, then he could deal with that instead of what he dealt with,,,
[03:58] <SeaPhor> *bazhang
[03:58] <mneptok> right, but what i'm saying is "why take offense?"
[03:59] <SeaPhor> sorry, did not mean to short name
[03:59] <mneptok> think of it this way. if i said, "that rainbow colored wig looks silly on you," you wouldn't take offense, and probably laugh at me, because it's patently false.
[04:00] <mneptok> when you get offended by someone calling Americans stupid, you confirm to them that there may be a seed of truth in what they say. this will encourage them.
[04:00] <mneptok> let it go.
[04:00] <mneptok> nome sane?
[04:01] <SeaPhor> mneptok, you are missing my point, i agree with you, i should have taken him for the person he was and ignored, but a responsibility would be to let a op know that there may be a other member of the chanel that will take offense
[04:02] <SeaPhor> and i didnt do that the other night, i became a "Dumb Redneck"
[04:03] <mneptok> and thus proved the idiot's point ;)
[04:03] <mneptok> it's like a microcosm of the Bush administration! ;)
[04:04]  * mneptok is another American, BTW
[04:04] <mneptok> so, don't let them bait you, k?
[04:05] <nalioth> mneptok: you klingon targ, quit your lying!
[04:05] <mneptok> and ... you are unbanned
[04:05] <mneptok> gakh is always best when served live ...
[04:06] <nalioth> live and fresh, not on its last legs live
[04:07] <SeaPhor> ummm, huh?
[04:09] <mneptok> SeaPhor: Star Trek geekery
[04:10] <nalioth> you mock me, sir!
[04:15] <SeaPhor> look , i made a commitment to myself and a friend that i would be 100% linux, 100%ubuntu and will take the next year of my life to learn all i can and go back to school during, and get a better job,,, and your channel is not only the best learning tool, i actually help ppl there, to be honest thats the main reason i'm here, ppl i've helped im'd me and asked me to come back,
[04:15] <mneptok> pistols at dawn? or phasers on Holodeck 3?
[04:15] <mneptok> SeaPhor: 23:03 <+mneptok> and ... you are unbanned
[04:15] <SeaPhor> mneptok, ?
[04:16] <SeaPhor> ?
[04:16] <mneptok> you
[04:16] <mneptok> are
[04:16] <mneptok> unbanned
[04:18] <nalioth> SeaPhor: join #ubuntu and enjoy
[04:18] <SeaPhor> lol, i was about to say ok, seeya, and act like i didnt care,, ( i didnt read the "un" part) thought i just got myself banned from here too
[04:19] <mneptok> i was too busy converting to Fahrenheit
[04:19] <mneptok> ;)
[04:19] <SeaPhor> good luck with that, i can do metric but temps...
[04:20] <SeaPhor> hey!, at least you can spell it
[04:21] <mneptok> SeaPhor: living in Canada has given me practice
[04:22] <SeaPhor> i'm sorry ;-(
[04:23] <SeaPhor> must have given you great patience too
[04:23]  * nalioth hums a refrain
[04:24] <SeaPhor> ok, thank you all, i'll get out of your way and go celebrate my first day of WIRELESS working! after 5.5 months of trying!
[04:26] <Hobbsee> woot!
[04:26] <SeaPhor> (that meand i have to roll up 35 ft. (feet for those on meters) of CAT5 strung thru In-Law's house
[04:27] <SeaPhor> *meand=means
[04:27] <Hobbsee> roll it correctly, then :)
[04:27] <Hobbsee> don't make it kink forever.
[04:27] <mneptok> but think, when you're done you can honestly say you have pulled the plug on your mother-in-law.
[04:27] <mneptok> that can't be bad.
[04:28] <SeaPhor> i like it kinky though???
[04:28] <vorian> oh my
[04:28] <mneptok> use unshielded cable then
[04:28] <vorian> :)
[04:31] <SeaPhor> ok,,, well, on that note, thank you all, bazhang - thank you for what you do, and i will leave you to do whatever you do here
[04:39] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[06:22] <Myrtti> moin
[06:36] <Madpilot> does ubottu have the greatest feature of the old pre-Great Snit ubotu, namely @lart?
[06:37] <Myrtti> we chose not to burden it with those
[06:37] <Madpilot> pity
[06:38] <Myrtti> besides, some of those should be on a separate bot anyway
[06:46] <Myrtti> hullo SeaPhor
[06:46] <Myrtti> how can we help you?
[06:46] <SeaPhor> i hate to bother you but how does one get an op if one is not obviously present?
[06:46] <Myrtti> with the help of chanserv
[06:47] <Myrtti> /msg chanserv help
[06:47] <SeaPhor> ok? i am a total n00b, i have no idea what that  means
[06:48] <Myrtti> or do you mean how do you get an op to respond to an urgent abuse issue on the channels?
[06:48] <SeaPhor> yes
[06:48] <Myrtti> on which particular channel or just in general?
[06:49] <SeaPhor> the one ur on,, for instance,, no in general
[06:49] <Myrtti> in the biggest #ubuntu channels the bot ubottu has a trigger !ops
[06:49] <Myrtti> I don't advice you to try it
[06:50] <Myrtti> just to test how it works
[06:50] <Myrtti> it's used like this: (replace the 1 with !)
[06:50] <SeaPhor> ooo, no, only in a bad time, right?
[06:50] <Myrtti> 1ops | $nick is causing trouble by doing $things
[06:50] <Myrtti> right
[06:51] <Myrtti> when done like that, we get an announcement with your name, and the part "$nick is causing trouble by doing $things"
[06:52] <Myrtti> and the bot also tells which channel is is
[06:52] <Myrtti> this is only on channels where ubottu is present
[06:52] <Myrtti> for the rest, they have their own policies
[06:53] <Myrtti> for those you can check who has the admin powah by doin /msg chanserv info $channel list
[06:53] <Myrtti> everyone with a level 10 or higher has the ability to remove users if necessary.
[06:54] <Myrtti> did this answer your questions?
[06:55] <SeaPhor> Thank you, there may be an issue in #ubuntu  there was someone being quite insulting but i'm sure he;s been run off by now, but he was also pushing Envy for vid drvr stuff
[06:55] <SeaPhor> yes it did thank you
[06:56] <Myrtti> envy or envyng?
[06:57] <Myrtti> !envy
[06:58] <SeaPhor> the latter, but this guy is pushing the stuff like candy and telling others off, insulting, i leave it there
[06:58] <SeaPhor> i know
[06:58] <Myrtti> c-ron: ?
[06:58] <SeaPhor> yes
[06:59] <Myrtti> well I'm already looking at his doings since he started to argue about our family friendly policy, so :-)
[06:59] <SeaPhor> is he the marketingguy or something?
[06:59] <SeaPhor> ok
[07:00] <SeaPhor> :-))
[07:03] <SeaPhor> here's wher prob is, i was working with a guy, he took over and thats fine, i'm still a n00b, but he's having him do Envy stuff,,,, when i first came here the first time i mentioned envy,, i was told to drop it or leave,,,
[07:04] <SeaPhor> and just so u know i did send c-ron a PM,,, <SeaPhor> is there a reason you want him to run envy instead of the native, or even restricted?
[07:04] <SeaPhor> * c-ron has quit ("Leaving")
[07:04] <Myrtti> hah
[07:10] <Myrtti> I see
[07:11] <Myrtti> did a bit of working there, it now seems the another user basically has no graphics?
[07:11] <Amaranth> envy is bad, envyng is just fine
[07:12] <Amaranth> well, right now using envyng is stupid because there is no updated driver to get
[07:18] <Myrtti> Amaranth: could you take this over, I ran into trouble with work
[07:18] <Amaranth> Myrtti: take what over?
[07:20] <Myrtti> SeaPhor: so do you have any other questions?
[08:53] <Myrtti> @btlogin
[09:12] <Myrtti> Dear Gaia, Give me strength to understand and work with users who question my logic, the rules, netiquette and common sense. Give me resilience to teach them the basics of Linux, Ubuntu, Community Guidelines and IRC. Allow me not to stray to nitpicking, argument, foul language or leisure op abuse. Deliver me my daily xkcd, perrybiblefellowship, del.icio.us, facebook and planet ubuntu, and guard over my encrypted drives, so they are not corrupted beyond ...
[09:12] <Myrtti> ... repair. Let it be so.
[09:13] <ompaul> Myrtti, a classic if I may say so
[09:14] <Myrtti> !prayer is <reply> foo
 search IM
 supybot.reply.format.time, supybot.reply.format.time.elapsed,
[09:15] <ompaul> can that actually be brought down the factoid names?
[09:15] <ompaul> (please_
[09:15] <ompaul> )
[09:16] <Myrtti> !no prayer is <reply> Dear $DEITY, Give me strength to understand and work with users who question my logic, the rules, netiquette and common sense. Give me resilience to teach them the basics of Linux, Ubuntu, Community Guidelines and IRC. Allow me not to stray to nitpicking, argument, foul language or leisure op abuse. Deliver me my daily xkcd, User Friendly, LWN, /. and Planet Ubuntu, and guard over my encrypted drives, so they are not corrupted ...
[09:16] <Myrtti> ... beyond repair. Let it be so.
[09:17] <Myrtti> !no prayer is <reply> Dear $DEITY, Give me strength to understand and work with users who question my logic, the rules, netiquette and common sense. Give me resilience to teach them the basics of Linux, Ubuntu, Community Guidelines and IRC. Allow me not to stray to nitpicking, argument, foul language or leisure op abuse. Deliver me my daily xkcd, User Friendly, LWN, /. and Planet Ubuntu, and guard over my encrypted drives. Let it be so.
[09:18] <Myrtti> !prayer
[09:44] <jenda> !prayer Myrtti
[09:44] <jenda> hm
[09:44] <jenda> thought $deity would be replaced; )
[09:44] <Myrtti> with what ;-)
[10:14] <Jucato> help in #kubuntu please
[10:14] <Jucato> I can't op
[11:31] <Myrtti> NARF?!
[11:32] <Myrtti> NAAAARRRFFFF
[11:32]  * Hobbsee narf's Myrtti
[11:33] <Myrtti> see -irc
[11:33] <Myrtti> there's a situation at -il that only two people have ops
[11:33] <Myrtti> the other being Seveas
[11:42] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: nalioth if one of you can action the cloak request, that'd be good.
[12:13] <elkbuntu> !pony
[12:13]  * elkbuntu weeps
[12:14] <Hobbsee> no pony for you.
[13:01] <ikonia> ompaul: very sad, I think I saw the problem, if he could have kept it together for a bit longer
[13:01] <Pici> yeesh
[13:02] <ompaul> ikonia, his attitude
[13:02] <ikonia> I know
[13:02] <ikonia> 30 seconds more is all he needed to keep it together for
[13:02] <ompaul> ikonia, no matter what I will now take him to pm if he replies then maybe just maybe
[13:04]  * elkbuntu reads over the backlog and rolls her eyes.
[13:05] <elkbuntu> he might be a volunteering, but i do not want his services...
[13:05] <elkbuntu> s/a//
[13:05] <Pici> I'm almost more annoyed at the peanut gallery than the guy himself.
[13:05] <ompaul> Pici, be that
[13:05] <ompaul> cos I am about to turn up again
[13:05]  * ompaul just did an install
[13:06] <Pici> eh?
[13:06] <ompaul> now for the most horrible part
[13:06] <Pici> breakfast.
[13:06] <ompaul> I am free for a few minutes :)
[13:06] <ompaul> ohh nice I had that already
[13:10]  * ompaul goes to web page
[13:11] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: what cloak request?
[13:16] <Myrtti> who are we talking about?
[14:00] <Myrtti> dpkg --configure -a does a cowardly exit and runs to a nearby forest... /me sings a LALALA song
[14:00] <Pici> :(
[14:00] <Myrtti> dpkg segfaults
[14:00] <Myrtti> I love this like a sack full of chicken dung
[14:04] <Myrtti> if I join -ot now, am I still a hypocrite?
[14:05] <Myrtti> feel free to /soap me though
[14:16] <ompaul> ikonia, Pici  I had a chat with shaneireland happy enough let him back
[14:16]  * ompaul has to head out for an hour or two
[14:58] <bazhang> kelvin911
[14:58] <Myrtti> oh
[14:58] <bazhang> just said some more cantonese curse words and called me 'ahole'
[14:58] <Pici> why?
[14:59] <Pici> when?
[14:59] <bazhang> asked him to stop the offtopic
[14:59] <bazhang> let me check the scroll
[15:00] <bazhang> approx 21 mins ago
[15:00] <Pici> And did you remove/ban him?
[15:01] <bazhang> he quit immediately after
[15:01] <bazhang> thought mediation was the new ban
[15:02] <Seeker`> woo!! Someone said mediation instead of catalysing!!
[15:02] <bazhang> goos-fraba
[15:06] <Pici> I'm a big proponent of mediation, but not when they start hurling insults for no reason.  If you aren't going to ban him, then I am.
[15:06] <bazhang> I have a few banned folks coming in for chats soon; would appreciate it
[15:08] <bazhang> kindofabuzz still thinks he did nothing wrong apart from the 'danger' command
[15:08] <bazhang> thanks Pici
[15:09] <Pici> surely
[15:23] <jussi01> hello all
[15:23] <Pici> Aloha
[15:24] <jussi01> :)
[15:24]  * jussi01 is home, finally :D
[15:27] <PriceChild> Back in a few days, cyaz.
[15:27] <Pici> PriceChild: have fun
[15:27] <Pici> unless you arent doing something fun, then just have.... cake.
[15:28] <jussi01> heh
[15:33] <bazhang> floodbot1 has quit? yikes
[15:34] <Pici> bazhang: its probably on LjL's connection
[15:35] <bazhang> okay that was scary; thanks
[15:35] <Pici> The rest of the bots are still around, they'll pick up the slack
[15:35] <bazhang> Im guessing fb1 will be back soon as well :)
[15:36] <jussi01> btw, what is metabot?
[15:36] <Pici> It summerizes the questions and categorizes them in ##metabot
[15:37] <jussi01> bazhang: there you go ;)
[15:38] <jussi01> Pici: ahh, cool
[15:38] <jussi01> thanks
[15:38] <Pici> Another of l j l's projecs
[15:38] <bazhang> oh thanks to goodness jussi01 :)
[15:38] <jussi01> Pici: yeah, i figured by the hostmask cloak :)
[15:47] <Pici> Hi Jack
[16:06] <Pici> Hm., /me wonders what irc channel UDS is going to be covered in
[16:06] <bazhang> haha
[16:11] <Jack_Sparrow> HI Pici
[16:11] <jdavies> Pici: #ubuntu-devel-summit
[16:11] <bazhang> and FB2 goes down
[16:12] <bazhang> oops back again
[16:12] <Pici> nice, unregistered channel
[16:13] <jdavies> Pici: who needs register when you have PARTYYY!!
[16:16] <jdavies> .
[16:21] <Pici> lots of offtopic lately
[16:21] <bazhang> tons
[16:21] <bazhang> better just to switch main channel and ot channel
[16:50] <bazhang> ASUS-tek, how may we help you
[16:52] <ASUS-tek> ya unblock me from ubuntu offtopic
[16:52] <bazhang> ASUS-tek, not sure who banned you from that channel
[16:53] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[16:53] <Seeker`> ompaul
[16:53] <Seeker`> He is afk for an hour or two, apparently
[16:54] <bazhang> ASUS-tek, ompaul is not around right now; you will have to speak to him when he returns
[16:54] <bazhang> ASUS-tek, best come back in three hours or so
[16:55] <Pici> oh
[18:16]  * ompaul is back
[18:17] <Seeker`> lo ompaul
[18:17] <ompaul> hi there
[18:17] <bazhang> asustek was seeking you ompaul
[18:17] <ompaul> I know
[18:17] <ompaul> I run full screen ;-) per channel
[18:17] <bazhang> haha
[18:18] <ompaul> ehh go to -ot for my latest thoughts
[19:00] <ASUS-tek> hi ompaul u there
[19:00] <ompaul> ASUS-tek, I am
[19:01] <ompaul> ASUS-tek,  do you know why you were banned at this point?
[19:03] <ompaul> wow answering in 12 seconds is too long a gap ;-)
[19:03] <ompaul> !u
[19:05] <bazhang> kelvin911, may we help you?
[19:05] <ompaul> kelvin911, and how may you be helped this day
[19:05] <ompaul> kelvin911, and ....
[19:06] <ompaul> wow
[19:06] <ompaul> ;-)
[19:06] <kelvin911> i dont talk to asshole like bazhang
[19:06] <Pici> kelvin911: Why the attitude?
[19:06] <bazhang> kelvin911, then we have a problem
[19:06] <Seeker`> I dont think you'll be talking to anyone in here much with that attitude
[19:06] <Myrtti> /me passes the crisps around
[19:07] <Seeker`> Myrtti: what flavour?
[19:07] <ompaul> !guidelines | kelvin911 have a look at these - both sides of the fence should be in that zone not kust one
[19:07] <Myrtti> plain with dip
[19:07] <Myrtti> sour cream with ... (looks....) ranch flavoring
[19:08] <ompaul> kelvin911, so ehh how can we help you>?
[19:08]  * Seeker` wonders what ranch tastes like
[19:08] <Pici> Nothing like hay.
[19:08] <ASUS-tek> ya am there
[19:08] <ompaul> Seeker`, I imagine sun burnt beef
[19:09] <ASUS-tek> unbannd me dude
[19:09] <kelvin911> and i hate communism and mainland china chinese like bazhang, u can ban me here too communist
[19:09] <ompaul> ASUS-tek, lets take this to pm for a moment or two
[19:09] <ompaul> kelvin911, you got a wrong idea dude so I guess you should adjust your reality
[19:10] <ompaul> kelvin911, this is about tolerating others not being intolerant
[19:10] <ASUS-tek> ompaul u first help me out with getting my self unbanned
[19:10] <ompaul> ASUS-tek, just a sec
[19:11] <ompaul> ASUS-tek, you got a pm please read it
[19:12] <Seeker`> kelvin911: what exactly do you want us to do? So far i've only seen you insult bazhang
[19:12] <ompaul> kelvin911, so have you anything else you want to do?
[19:12] <Pici> I banned him because of his attitude and language in #u
[19:13] <ompaul> Pici, I can see how that would have happened
[19:14] <ompaul> kelvin911, have you anything in specific you want to say / do here
[19:14] <ompaul> !idle
[19:15] <ompaul> kelvin911, please participate or leave
[19:19] <ompaul> kelvin911, is that a vote to leave?
[19:21] <kelvin911> unban or i am not leaving
[19:21] <Myrtti> fine
[19:22] <Pici> kelvin911: You will not be unbanned until you follow and understand our channel guidelines.  And several new computers.
[19:54] <Pici> Myrtti: Before Ubuntu I assume?
[19:54] <Myrtti> so I've got a good reason to hate it
[19:54] <Myrtti> yeah
[19:55] <jdong> Seeker`: shiny indeed. The amount of chrome will quickly lead to the first speeding ticket though unless I take some countermeasures ;-)
[19:55] <bazhang> he's now in ubuntu-irc
[19:55] <Seeker`> jdong: how so?
[19:56] <Pici> bazhang: lets see what he says
[19:56] <jdong> Seeker`: laser reflection... the whole front end is a big reflector....
[19:56] <bazhang> okay
[19:56] <jdong> Seeker`: the beast might be 4000lbs but the 5.7L hemi has you in ticket territory before you even know it
[19:56] <Seeker`> jdong: how does that lead to a speeding ticket  though? unless you spend all the time speeding :P
[19:56] <Pici> 5.7L/1
[19:56] <Pici> ?!
[19:56] <Seeker`> jdong: what is the top speed?
[19:56] <jdong> Seeker`: without tire restriction around 150mph
[19:57] <jdong> Seeker`: stock tires are rated 111 though, and that's what the dealer software restriction is set at currently
[19:57] <jdong> Pici: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/car/P5150008.JPG
[19:57] <jdong> rear end says all.
[19:57] <Amaranth> rtfm is the reason i kept bouncing between debian and windows for 2 years before ubuntu
[19:58] <jdong> Seeker`: the max legal speed on US highways is less than the halfway mark on the speedo..... :(
[19:58] <Amaranth> after 6 months in the ubuntu community i knew as much as the people in #debian telling me to rtfm, just needed to get a start
[19:59] <Pici> For some reason, even though I used IRC socially, it never dawned on me that linux support existed in thay medium.
[19:59] <Pici> that
[19:59] <Amaranth> Cox seems to be throttling me to some speed barely faster than dialup
[19:59] <Amaranth> and i keep almost disconnecting from IRC
[19:59] <Pici> Should I send the pings faster then?
[20:01] <Amaranth> I can't be in #ubuntu right now
[20:02] <Amaranth> too much lag
[20:29]  * gnomefreak the opposite i knew linux support and only 1 channel for social and that was after linux support :(
[20:30] <gnomefreak> yes that means work work and no play for me
[20:35] <Myrtti> should the banlist here be cleaned a bit?
[20:44] <gnomefreak> anyone know nese?
[20:45] <gnomefreak> please get rid of him hes a spam troll or something of the like
[20:45] <gnomefreak> hes pming people atleast me anyway with crap
[20:48] <nalioth> so i've been noticing
[21:01] <ompaul> looking at the ban list
[21:02] <ompaul> we can clean it out if we get grief we can kill it but who was that that Seveas did not want here
[21:23]  * tomaw msgs ubeth
[21:24] <ubeth> fuckin this channel
[21:24] <jussi01> tomaw: had me confused for a moment there
[21:24] <tomaw> jussi01: I try :)
[21:25] <jussi01> I was like, who the heck is t?
[21:41]  * gnomefreak wonder if i can say what i feel yet :(
[22:21] <jussi01> who is CarlFK?
[22:22] <Myrtti> was thinking the same
[22:23] <jussi01> He isnt even cloaked
[22:25]  * gnomefreak knows that name as do most older ops (older as in been ops longer)
[22:26] <gnomefreak> most of the time hes fairly good but he has his days
[22:26] <jussi01> right.
[22:26] <gnomefreak> he hangs in #ubuntu #ubuntu+1
[22:26] <gnomefreak> i cant remmber wher eelse
[22:26] <jussi01> Why does he not reside here?
[22:27] <gnomefreak> dont know didnt know he was made an op
[22:27] <jussi01> ompaul: you have your hat on....
[22:27]  * gnomefreak needs to get more work done in house be back later i think
[23:09] <ompaul> jussi01, thanks
[23:12] <jussi01> :)


[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[07:11] <fgimenez> good morning dholbach and all
[07:12] <dholbach> hey fgimenez
[09:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Ingersoll Day! 😃
[11:55] <dholbach> ogra_, somebody in our shared office ordered a spreedbox :)
[11:55] <ogra_> dholbach, wheee !
[11:55] <ogra_> still ~2000€ missing ...
[15:04] <elopio> fgimenez: https://github.com/elgris/check/commit/45ed7de654751f962e5c6d493a18933dcea604ec
[15:04] <elopio> making an outputWriter interface seems like a good upstream step
[15:12] <fgimenez> elopio, yep very good approach, in that case we would need to control the gocheck output, no skips on reboot
[15:24] <ogra_> sergiusens, lol, i just noticed your trello comment ... do you think it makes sense to still split the card even when everything is implemented (uboot that is) ?
[15:25] <sergiusens> ogra_: oh, well not everything is ticked
[15:25] <ogra_> documentation mainly
[15:25] <sergiusens> ogra_: if everything is ticked, just migrate it (tick it as well)
[15:26] <sergiusens> ogra_: as a general practice, it's good to not keep the unknowns and knowns together, that's all ;-)
[15:28] <ogra_> i commented
[16:49] <john-mcaleely> ogra_, where do i look for details of how bluetooth might work on snappy systems today?
[16:50] <john-mcaleely> I assume its not 'in the box'
[16:50] <john-mcaleely> so I'm wondering if there are devices/projects which have chosen to add it yet?
[16:50] <ogra_> heh, in someones dream compartment in his head i guess :)
[16:50] <ogra_> we will need a BT framework that doesnt exist yet
[16:50] <john-mcaleely> right
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> so, in a one-snap-to-include-everything model, there's still work, right?
[16:51] <ogra_> not sure how much lool has planned the architectural bits for this yet
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> because apparmor confinement, etc
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> mm
[16:51] <ogra_> it wont be a one-snap-include-everything i suspect
[16:52] <ogra_> it will be a one-snap-depend-on-bt-framework rather
[16:52] <john-mcaleely> and inside that framework, there's still work?
[16:52] <ogra_> so we first need that framework ...
[16:52] <john-mcaleely> to accomodate snappy's confinement, ect
[16:52] <john-mcaleely> ?
[16:53] <ogra_> and that framweork would have a "snappy config" ability to adjust itzs settings and add HW access etc ... i imagine
[16:53] <john-mcaleely> mmm
[16:54] <ogra_> but thats just from my own "dream compartment" :)
[16:54] <john-mcaleely> its a good start. thank you
[16:55] <john-mcaleely> ogra_, is wifi different or the same?
[16:56] <john-mcaleely> (I only have a beaglebone black here, so I don't see this for real)
[16:56] <john-mcaleely> I'm guessing there would need to be config utilities 'added' to the core image
[16:57] <john-mcaleely> ?
[16:57] <ogra_> wifi is slightly different, we shhip all bits needed to set uip wifi in the core
[16:58] <ogra_> but we dont have a configuration story for that yet ... and i'm not sure if it will be a framework itself or just a snappy config option to ubuntu-core
[16:58] <john-mcaleely> ok, so there's some software there, but actually baking it in to work in a particular way is missing?
[16:59] <ogra_> there is SW and there are modules ... but no config at all currently, you have to set it up manually
[16:59] <john-mcaleely> that's clear
[16:59] <john-mcaleely> cool
[17:00] <john-mcaleely> similar, but different :-)
[17:00] <ogra_> yeah :)
[17:00] <ogra_> i doubt we'll pull the whole BT stack into the rootfs ... thats the main difference
[17:00] <ogra_> so the Bt SW needs to come from a framework
[17:00] <ogra_> perhaps wifi will do that too later
[17:00] <john-mcaleely> yeah, there seem to be several viable BT stacks
[17:00] <john-mcaleely> sadly
[17:01] <ogra_> right
[17:01] <ogra_> wifi is more clear ... wpa-supplicant and iw tools and you are done
[17:01] <ogra_> which is why we simply included them for now
[17:01] <john-mcaleely> simpler software tech. just does IP, I guess
[17:02] <ogra_> yep
[17:02] <ogra_> no special daemons, no daemons depending on these daemons etc
[17:02] <john-mcaleely> right. ui requirements
[17:02] <john-mcaleely> for 'pairing'
[17:02] <john-mcaleely> or whatever
[17:04] <ogra_> well, even commandline pairing requires special tools
[17:04] <john-mcaleely> why am I not surprised?
[17:04] <ogra_> for the IoT side we'll need a programmatic way to do it without UI ... or perhaps web UI
[17:05] <john-mcaleely> indeed. or just use different radios
[17:05] <ogra_> sadly the framework story is still very blurry ... there is a sprint this week in lex. ... i hope they do more than snapcraft there and we actually get some more fleshed out framework stories
[17:06] <john-mcaleely> sure
[19:54] <seshu> Hello there.  My current application/service that runs on Ubuntu has no gui, its written to be a daemon. The main libraries I use for my application/service uses json and mosquitto libraries.
[19:54] <seshu> I'm trying to see if I can rebundle my application/service into snapp app.
[19:56] <seshu> so can a snappy app be a daemon?
[19:56] <beuno> seshu, yes, it can run as a service
[19:57] <seshu> thanx beuno.
[19:57] <beuno> seshu, see: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/packaging-format-apps/
[19:57] <beuno> how to start it, etc
[19:58] <seshu> Would I have to bundle the libraries along with the app?
[20:00] <beuno> seshu, yes
[20:00] <beuno> snaps are self-contained
[20:14] <seshu> so looks like, if my application/service needs to incorporate functionality similar to webDM (such as triggering install,remove of other apps or trigger the upgrade of ubuntu core from remote), it should have to be a framework. Am I  correct?
[20:15] <beuno> seshu, correct
[20:19] <beuno> seshu, keep in mind, a framework like that would generally not be accepted into the snappy store
[20:20] <beuno> given it would require to be unconfined
[20:20] <beuno> so it depends on what your goal is for this snap
[20:20] <beuno> if its for a fixed function device that doesn't need access to the general store
[20:20] <beuno> or you're just trying to get a sense of how things work
[20:27] <seshu> at the moment, I'm trying to understand how things work and how I may have to modify my application to be able to run on snappy.
[20:31] <seshu> later, the idea is to see how I could use snappy for an IoT solution.


[16:59]  * pitti waves
[16:59] <mdeslaur> \o
[17:01]  * mdeslaur waits for others
[17:02] <mdeslaur> hi kees
[17:03] <kees> hola!
[17:04] <pitti> hey kees, how are you?
[17:04] <kees> good, you?
[17:05] <pitti> quite fine, thanks! /me waves from South Africa
[17:07] <kees> ooh! never been. :)
[17:07] <pitti> my first time too
[17:08] <pitti> no response from slangasek and infinity, and stgraber send apols
[17:08] <mdeslaur> hrm
[17:08] <pitti> so maybe we just start
[17:08] <mdeslaur> ok
[17:08] <mdeslaur> #startmeeting
[17:08] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  9 17:08:45 2014 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:08] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:08] <mdeslaur> [topic] Apologies
[17:08] <mdeslaur> stgraber couldn't make it
[17:08] <mdeslaur> [topic] Action review
[17:09] <mdeslaur> infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
[17:09] <mdeslaur> hrm, don't think he did that, so carried over
[17:09] <mdeslaur> mdeslaur to gather facts on Docker versions and respond to the thread
[17:09] <mdeslaur> I did respond to the thread
[17:09] <kees> done
[17:09] <mdeslaur> that's it for actions
[17:09] <mdeslaur> [topic] Mailing list archive
[17:10] <mdeslaur> "Freetype patent problem" - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-December/002047.html
[17:10] <kees> not a patent holder, so ... nothing to respond to, IIUC?
[17:10] <pitti> yeah
[17:10] <pitti> we already discussed subpixel rendering on the TB many years ago
[17:10] <mdeslaur> yep
[17:11] <pitti> and back then it was the same thing: not a patent owner, not upstream, not interested
[17:11] <mdeslaur> it's the only reasonable thing to do
[17:11] <pitti> well, I think we should respond, with pretty much that
[17:12] <pitti> I don't know whether we have our patent policy written down somewhere
[17:12] <pitti> hah, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatentPolicy
[17:12] <mdeslaur> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatentPolicy says "While the Ubuntu project wishes to be responsive to patent infringement claims, we cannot commit to the assessment and review of claims made by anyone other than the registered rights holder. "
[17:12] <kees> that seems pretty clear :)
[17:13] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure what is expected of the "Developers" section at the bottom of that page though
[17:14] <pitti> I think that's "upstreams"
[17:14] <mdeslaur> ah! that would make sense
[17:15] <mdeslaur> ok, I'll respond to the thread again
[17:15] <mdeslaur> [action] mdeslaur to respond to freetype thread
[17:15] <meetingology> ACTION: mdeslaur to respond to freetype thread
[17:16] <mdeslaur> does anyone have anything else to add to the freetype thread?
[17:16] <mdeslaur> if not, next item:
[17:16] <mdeslaur> "MRE for KDE Frameworks" - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-November/002043.html
[17:16] <pitti> I'm quite nervous about this TBH
[17:17] <kees> pitti: for what reasons?
[17:17] <pitti> if you essentially stop having a stable branch, you get all sorts of refactoring and other new bits into it, and I highly doubt that upstreams test extensively on old KDE versoins
[17:17] <pitti> usually upstreams run trunk for everything
[17:18] <mdeslaur> they are promising a stable ABI and API though
[17:18] <pitti> well yes, but that conceptually that doesn't really work
[17:18] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure how this is different from other MREs
[17:18] <shadeslayer> Thing is, exisiting API is covered by unit tests
[17:18] <pitti> (with having only one trunk)
[17:18] <shadeslayer> new API is only harmful if apps use it
[17:18] <shadeslayer> since we're not updating apps, this is not a problem
[17:19] <pitti> yes, but if you don't have stable branches, refactoring etc. will also be there
[17:19] <shadeslayer> *plus* we now have extensive QA mechanisms on Kubuntu CI
[17:19] <shadeslayer> pitti: sure, but test coverage should ensure things don't break
[17:19] <pitti> well, I think ultimately it's KDE's decision, but these are certainly not "microreleases"
[17:19] <Riddell> pitti: KF5 has unstable branches for unstable stuff
[17:19] <pitti> this is now the same class as landscape and juju
[17:19] <Riddell> it doesn't go into master until it's stable
[17:19] <shadeslayer> pitti: yes, they most certainly can't be called microreleases
[17:21] <pitti> so, I'm not really convinced that this will actually work better, but I don't veto a preliminary exception and then see how it goes with a few updates
[17:21] <pitti> as usual, if you want to do this then we should figure out a "how", not outright "no you can't"
[17:22] <shadeslayer> pitti: ofcourse, and I think all of us in the Kubuntu team are more than willing to introduce measures to make sure things don't break
[17:23] <shadeslayer> FWIW we have QA measures being taken over here : http://kci.pangea.pub/
[17:23] <pitti> shadeslayer: do you have some ideas for that?
[17:23] <shadeslayer> pitti: yes, see http://kci.pangea.pub/
[17:23] <shadeslayer> pitti: there are a couple of things we do, at its core, check for ABI breaks , file moves, and make sure packages are generally installable
[17:24] <pitti> shadeslayer: can we run app/other component's tests against an updated framework?
[17:24] <shadeslayer> ( this happens every single day btw )
[17:24] <shadeslayer> pitti: I don't see why not, we already integrate Plasma 5 against Framework 5 from git, which is the biggest consumer of KF5
[17:24] <pitti> are these the same as we already run as autopkgtest, OOI?
[17:25] <shadeslayer> no, autopkgtests can't be run unfortuantely, I'm trying to figure out how to solve those with Harald, so we'll have a solution soon, but these are basically build tests, and then installing and updating Plasma 5 from git to make sure things work
[17:25] <shadeslayer> actually, if we can get autopkgtests for PPA's that would be a big help
[17:26] <pitti> a log like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/192137245/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.konversation_1.5.50%2Bgit20141209.0010%2B15.04-0ubuntu0_UPLOADING.txt.gz seems to be a lot like those, anyway
[17:26] <shadeslayer> otherwise, I can setup some infrastructure on our end to do this
[17:26] <pitti> shadeslayer: we'll be able to with the new cloud-based airline
[17:26] <shadeslayer> \o/
[17:27] <pitti> not with the currnet infrastructure I'm afraid; it's squeaking under the load already :(
[17:27] <pitti> anyway, separate topic
[17:27] <shadeslayer> yeah I can understand :)
[17:27] <shadeslayer> pitti: what else would you like to see btw?
[17:27] <pitti> reverse dependency testing for sure; automatic tests as we have them (that's essentially what's on that jenkins, right?)
[17:28] <shadeslayer> ( me and Harald are more or less exclusively working on this full time at the moment, so would be nice to have suggestions )
[17:28] <pitti> but also some manual testing, at least starting the desktop, checking for visual oddities, and checking that you can get up to the package updater again
[17:28] <shadeslayer> pitti: done every friday
[17:28] <pitti> i. e. we must never break the graphical package updater, so that we can clean up after a regression
[17:29] <pitti> ^ that for SRUs, I mean
[17:29] <shadeslayer> ah right ofcourse
[17:29] <pitti> (not for upstream/vivid developmetn of course)
[17:30] <pitti> shadeslayer: i. e. if we make sure that we don't completely break a desktop with an SRU (and the automatic tests don't catch it), and we always have a way out through another update, I'd be happy
[17:30] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[17:30] <shadeslayer> That's totally reasonable, and actually, what should be expected
[17:30] <pitti> shadeslayer: do you want to do this for LTS, or for the "intermediate" releases too?
[17:31] <pitti> it seems to be quite a lot of effort, and these days the non-LTSes are comparatively fairly uninteresting IMHO
[17:31] <Riddell> for now only for utopic
[17:31] <Riddell> after the next LTS we can review that but yeah it would be effort
[17:31] <pitti> Riddell: ah, conceptually, or because it's a more appropriate "test run"?
[17:31] <Riddell> pitti: because only utopic has kf5 in for now, in trusty it would be all new packages, dunno if the qt version is enough etc
[17:32] <Riddell> after the next LTS we can judge the demand I guess
[17:32] <pitti> Riddell: ah, of course; so say, we have 16.04 LTSes, would you then only do that for LTSes, or only for the latest release, or something else?
[17:32] <pitti> ok
[17:32] <shadeslayer> I'd say we would try to update Frameworks with our best effort
[17:32] <Riddell> still for the latest releases, maybe for LTS if we're feeling generous but probably not
[17:32] <pitti> ok, interesting
[17:32] <shadeslayer> and if upstream bumps Qt version, then it's a problem ofcourse
[17:32] <shadeslayer> which shouldn't really happen ..
[17:33] <pitti> I have a feeling that the vast majority of users just stay at LTS these days
[17:33] <pitti> but yes, then let's give this some test runs on utopic
[17:33] <pitti> and see how it goes, how much effort it is, etc.
[17:33] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[17:34] <mdeslaur> ok, so provisional exception?
[17:34] <pitti> ok for me, if we have some test plan to go along with it
[17:35] <mdeslaur> kees ?
[17:35] <kees> yeah, that's fine by me
[17:35] <mdeslaur> actually, I guess we just need one, so pitti can you respond to that thread?
[17:36] <pitti> "need" yes, but always good to collect opinions :)
[17:36] <pitti> mdeslaur: yes
[17:36] <mdeslaur> [action] pitti to respond to MRE for KDE frameworks thread
[17:36] <meetingology> ACTION: pitti to respond to MRE for KDE frameworks thread
[17:36] <mdeslaur> cool
[17:36] <shadeslayer> thx :D
[17:36] <mdeslaur> I believe that's it from the mailing list
[17:36] <mdeslaur> [topic] Community bugs
[17:36] <mdeslaur> None
[17:36] <mdeslaur> [topic] Next chair
[17:37] <mdeslaur> Looks like it's pitti
[17:37] <mdeslaur> pitti: congrats :P
[17:37] <pitti> docker in 14.04?
[17:37] <mdeslaur> they haven't responded to our questions
[17:37] <mdeslaur> we can discuss it if you'd like
[17:38] <pitti> yeah, I really don't like the "package every version"
[17:38] <pitti> but indeed, let's wait for a response, and f'up via mail
[17:38] <mdeslaur> ok
[17:39]  * kees autocompletes "f'up" not to "follow up"
[17:39] <mdeslaur> Does anyone have anything else to discuss?
[17:39] <pitti> kees: oops, sorry :)
[17:39] <mdeslaur> lol
[17:39] <kees> :)
[17:39] <pitti> yes -- where to go to dinner :)
[17:39] <mdeslaur> and here I thought it was just me :)
[17:39] <pitti> (most folks already left, and urging us to leave too)
[17:39] <kees> mmm food
[17:39] <pitti> it's 19:39 here already
[17:39] <mdeslaur> pitti: have a nice dinner!
[17:39] <mdeslaur> #endmeeting
[17:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  9 17:39:52 2014 UTC.
[17:39] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2014/ubuntu-meeting-2.2014-12-09-17.08.moin.txt
[17:39] <kees> thanks!
[17:40]  * pitti waves, thanks!
[17:40] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone
[17:41] <pitti> shadeslayer, Riddell: thanks for coming!
[17:43] <Riddell> de nada
[20:30] <shadeslayer> always a pleasure :)
[20:30] <shadeslayer> though I kind of panicked when Riddell went "Ubuntu tech board meeting! now!" across the desk from me


[03:39] <DaBomb> hi RoninX341
[03:40] <etank> howdy DaBomb
[03:40] <RoninX341> howdy DaBomb
[03:40] <RoninX341> meant to do that from this window
[03:41] <DaBomb> lol
[08:12] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 20 Mar 02:00: Kernel Team | 20 Mar 10:00: IRC Operators | 21 Mar 05:00: Community Council | 21 Mar 23:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Mar 18:00: MOTU