[00:56]  * KombuchaKip hates Git
[01:26] <bignose> bzr-svn is breaking suddenly
[01:27] <bignose> AFAIK the Subversion server hasn't changed
[01:27] <bignose>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/svn/fetch.py", line 505, in _open_directory
[01:27] <bignose>     base_file_id = self.editor._get_old_id(self.old_id, path)
[01:27] <bignose>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/svn/fetch.py", line 805, in _get_old_id
[01:27] <bignose>     return ret.next()[1]
[01:27] <bignose> StopIteration
[01:27] <bignose> is this a known problem with an easy fix (and can I have a pony)?
[01:31] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bugs?field.searchtext=stopiteration
[01:31] <lifeless> shows nothing
[01:31] <lifeless> so I suspect not a known issue
[01:32] <bignose> lifeless: thanks
[01:39] <spiv> Morning folks.
[01:39] <bignose> can I ‘bzr branch’ from a local filesystem Subversion checkout?
[01:39] <spiv> I think that's meant to work.
[01:40] <bignose> ‘bzr help urlspec’ only talks about the Subversion server
[01:40] <bignose> and Bazaar doesn't recognise the Subversion checkout as a branch.
[01:57] <bignose> so ‘bzr branch foo.svncheckout/ foo/’ just gives “bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: …/foo.svncheckout/”.
[01:58] <bignose> spiv: so how can I branch from a working Subversion checkout?
[01:58] <bignose> (accessing the server causes Bazaar to crash.)
[01:58] <spiv> bignose: the same way you just tried to :/
[01:59] <spiv> bignose: I think you need to file a bug (or in your case, pseudo-file by mailing the list and/or jelmer)
[01:59] <bignose> shall do, thanks.
[03:52] <_mathrick> $ bzr unbind
[03:52] <_mathrick> bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host lynx.imada.sdu.dk; [Errno 10060] A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond
[03:52] <_mathrick> uhh?
[03:52] <_mathrick> why does it want to connect to unbind?
[03:54] <lifeless> hmm, not sure.
[03:55] <_mathrick> lifeless: it's a colo-ified repo
[03:57] <mathrick> and I'm having trouble trying to find out what is bound to what exactly, since bzr info accepts no --local
[03:57] <mathrick> $ cat .bzr/branch/location
[03:57] <mathrick><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:58] <mathrick> oh, that'd explain
[04:04] <lifeless> thats not bound
[04:04] <lifeless> thats a lightweight checkout
[04:05] <mathrick> lifeless: well, I thought it was a lightweight checkout of .bzr/branches/lipid-calc which was then bound to the above
[04:05] <mathrick> which is why it was surprising to me that it'd want to connect to unbind
[04:08] <mathrick> and it sure worked they I'd expect it to before (when the server was not down), ie. both the local colo workspace and the remote one were updated on any commit/other change
[04:18] <mathrick> s/they/the way/
[04:39] <bignose> okay, this is looking less like a ‘bzr-svn’ problem

[05:03] <bignose> it seems the repository is being strange
[05:03] <bignose> could that be because of earlier ‘bzr-svn’ problems?
[05:05] <lifeless> I think thats unrelated, and fixed in trunk.
[05:05] <lifeless>  / 2.4
[05:09] <spiv> Actually, I think that is likely to be related to earlier bzr-svn problems.
[05:09] <spiv> FSVO of "earlier" :)
[05:10]  * spiv digs up the bug number
[05:14] <spiv> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/485601 is the one I'm thinking of
[05:15] <spiv> IIRC jelmer has corrected the problem in bzr-svn trunk (and maybe the current release?) but there isn't yet an easy way to repair affected bzr repos.
[05:37] <bignose> would those repository problems show up on ‘bzr check’?
[05:43] <spiv> No, although if you made a fresh import (i.e. into a new bzr repo) then use 'bzr cross-check EXISTING_REPO FRESH_IMPORT' it would.  (requires ~spiv/bzr-crosscheck/experimental plugin, I should really make that be the trunk version and/or integrate it into bzr-repodebug)
[05:45] <bignose> spiv: are either of those in Debian Wheezy?
[05:45] <spiv> I don't know of anyone packaging those.
[05:46] <bignose> hmm, the ‘bzr check’ has failed on this repository.
[05:46] <spiv> bzr-repodebug is relatively new (although its contents aren't)
[05:46] <bignose> if I make a new repository and branch again from Subversion, would I be wasting my time?
[05:46] <spiv> Probably not.  How did check fail though?
[05:47] <bignose> NoSuchRevision: CHKInventoryRepository('file:///home/benf/projects/svn/.bzr/repository/') has no revision ('svn-v4:58802371-0b19-4c69-acb7-7d0c5b422186:trunk:3356',)
[05:48] <spiv> (If it is fallout from a now-corrected bzr-svn bug then making a fresh import would be the easiest way to continue working I think.)
[05:48] <spiv> Hmm, a bit odd.  Does the traceback give any hint as to whether it was looking for a revision or inventory when that happened?
[05:49] <spiv> (Unfortunately that error without context can mean either)
[05:53] <lifeless> there will be a backtrace in ~/.bzr.log
[05:56] <bignose> how much do you want to see?
[05:56] <bignose>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/repository.py", line 2382, in get_inventory
[05:56] <bignose>     return self.iter_inventories([revision_id]).next()
[05:56] <bignose>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/repofmt/groupcompress_repo.py", line 899, in _iter_inventories
[05:56] <bignose>     raise errors.NoSuchRevision(self, record.key)
[05:56] <bignose> NoSuchRevision: CHKInventoryRepository('file:///home/benf/projects/svn/.bzr/repository/') has no revision ('svn-v4:58802371-0b19-4c69-acb7-7d0c5b422186:trunk:3356',)
[06:00] <spiv> Ok, so it does think an inventory record is missing.  Have you used stacked repositories at all?
[06:00] <spiv> Anyway, I would certainly try a fresh import from SVN at this point

[06:01] <bignose> that's the full traceback
[06:01] <bignose> I will try a clean repository. but my goal is to merge some revisions from the existing repository :-(
[06:01] <spiv> There's a reasonable chance that you'll be able to merge them into the new repository.
[06:02] <spiv> I'm not sure how you'd have ended up with a revision record without a corresponding inventory record.  Perhaps just an old bug that's been fixed that I've long since forgotten about :)
[06:14] <bignose> new fun: the bound branch from Subversion into a new repository works
[06:14] <bignose> but branching from that give:
[06:14] <bignose> $ bzr branch ../svn/empowered/
[06:14] <bignose> inconsistent details in skipped record: StaticTuple('719@58802371-0b19-4c69-acb7-7d0c5b422186:trunk%2Fwdyt%2Fsource%2Fwdyt%2Fprofile_modules%2Fmanagement%2Fcommands%2Fsend_profile_reminders.py'<EMAIL_ADDRESS>('4655593<PHONE_NUMBER>090 1213211', ((('719@58802371-0b19-4c69-acb7-7d0c5b422186:trunk%2Fwdyt%2Fsource%2Fwdyt%2Fprofile_modules%2Fmanagement%2Fcommands%2Fsend_profile_reminders.py', 'ben@benfinney
[06:15] <bignose> Branched 3363 revision(s).
[08:16] <jam> morning all
[08:35] <sagaci> hi, just doing my first branch of lp:ubuntu/gnome-user-guide, it's up to  42616kB    84kB/s | Fetching revisions:Inserting stream:Estimate 5520/5533, how big is the initial revision size, should I save it for a rainy day or can someone shed light to the estimated total size..?
[08:38] <jam> sagaci: I'll check, just a sec
[08:39] <sagaci> thanks
[08:41] <jam> sagaci: are you sure that is spelled correctly: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/ubuntu/gnome-user-guide/"
[08:41] <sagaci> jam, it just finished at around 90MiB
[08:41] <sagaci> but thanks anyway
[08:41] <sagaci> sorry, gnome-user-docs
[08:42] <sagaci> *facepalm*
[08:42] <jam> hmm... I see it for natty,  but "lp:ubuntu/gnome-user-guide" didn't seem to work
[08:42] <jam> ah, thanks
[08:42] <jam> well, I'm glad it worked for you
[08:42] <sagaci> yeah, just didn't want it to be ~1GiB and 4 hours later
[08:43] <jam> yeah
[08:45] <deni> question
[08:46] <deni> can i have a repo in say /home/user1/repo and create a symlink to it in folder /home/user2/repo2 and have user2 user repo2 ?
[08:46] <deni> i know i know this is completely wrong....on so many levels
[08:47] <deni> but i have a ssh jail on one user and i want him to be able to just user that one repo that is located outside of the jail folder
[08:47] <bob2> symlinks don't let you escape chroots
[08:47] <lifeless> your jail would prevent that working
[08:47] <lifeless> nevermind what bzr might support :)
[08:48] <lifeless> you could use a bind mount
[08:48] <deni> hmmm
[08:48] <deni> user2 is jailed in /home/user2
[08:49] <deni> the link is located is that folder.....wouldn't it seem like he never left /home/user2
[08:49] <lifeless> sadly no, thats not how symlinks work
[08:49] <lifeless> they get dereferenced (followed) in userspace
[08:49] <deni> why can i cd to repo2 and write to it then? :D
[08:50] <lifeless> because your shell + libc are collaborating to confuse you
[08:50] <deni> also pwd says /home/user2/repo2/ and not /home/user1/repo
[08:50] <deni> be as it may....i can still write to that folder
[08:50] <lifeless> while you are jailed ?
[08:50] <deni> yes
[08:51] <maxb> What kind of jail is this?
[08:51] <maxb> Doesn't sound very secure :-)
[08:51] <deni> aarrghh..nope..just me being stupid
[08:51] <deni> wait a secx
[08:51] <deni> *sec
[08:51] <lifeless> python -c 'import os;os.symlink("/etc", "foo")'
[08:51] <lifeless> if you run that, while jailed
[08:51] <lifeless> and ls foo shows you your /etc
[08:52] <lifeless> then your jail is, uhm, not working well :)
[08:52] <deni> lifeless: the jail is working fine, like i said it was just me being stupid (i was not logged in as the jailed user :D)
[08:52] <lifeless> there you go
[08:53] <deni> well i can always branch the repo in the jail and then have user2 push to it and then just merge from time to time
[08:53] <maxb> The important thing to understand about symlinks is that they are *just* a pathname stored on the disk, that's all - and all of the dereferencing happens at the priviledge level of the user accessing them
[08:53] <deni> lifeless: maxb: tnx
[08:53] <lifeless> deni: or use a bind mount
[08:53] <lifeless> deni: which will do what you wanted
[09:01] <Rakesh> hello friends
[09:01] <Rakesh> please help me in configuring bzr in windows
[09:04] <bialix> Rakesh: ask
[09:04] <Rakesh> helloo
[09:05] <Rakesh> i installed bzr on my machine
[09:05] <Rakesh> and its configured with some RSA key pair
[09:05] <bialix> its = what?
[09:05] <Rakesh> bzr
[09:06] <Rakesh> i mean we have RSA public key used in server
[09:06] <bialix> I don't think bzr is configured with RSA, are you talking about your SSH client software?
[09:06] <Rakesh> and i ned ma private key in ma system to get connected
[09:07] <bialix> what is your SSH client software?
[09:07] <Rakesh> hmm:(
[09:07] <bialix> I'd recommend you to use pageant from PuTTY package to hold your private key
[09:07] <Rakesh> actually i created it from my Ubuntu machine
[09:08] <Rakesh> and configured my bzr client in there
[09:08] <bialix> on bzr it won't work the same way as on Ubuntu
[09:08] <bialix> maybe you want install Cygwin to have SSH client similar to Ubuntu
[09:09] <bialix> or just use PuTTY
[09:09] <bialix> you need 2 utilities: puttygen and pageant
[09:10] <bialix> using puttygen you have to import your private key and then save it in putty format.
[09:10] <bialix> use pageant as ssh-agent software, load your putty-private key there
[09:11] <bialix> also it will be better to ensure you don't have ssh.exe or plink.exe in your path, otherwise you'd better set env variable BZR_SSH=paramiko
[09:11] <bialix> Rakesh: does it make sense for you?
[09:12] <Rakesh> sorry, i ment SSH key
[09:12] <Rakesh> its not RSA key :(
[09:12] <bialix> I know, I told you about SSH key
[09:12] <Rakesh> yea , thanks
[09:13] <Rakesh> ok  i have the kay pair and i configured bzr in Ubuntu
[09:13] <Rakesh> and what i need is i want to configure it for my windows machne too
[09:14] <Rakesh> and  whan i tried to configure it there it asks for my private key password
[09:14] <Rakesh> and its not detecting the password
[09:14] <bialix> Rakesh: re-read my advices starting from "or just use PuTTY" sentence
[09:15] <bialix> are you using GUI tools or command-line?
[09:15] <Rakesh> GUI
[09:15] <bialix> that's could be a problem then
[09:16] <Rakesh> :(
[09:16] <bialix> it seems you have Cygwin's ssh and ssh-agent instaled in your system, right?
[09:17] <Rakesh> not actually
[09:17] <Rakesh> I have the key which is generated  from ubuntu
[09:18] <Rakesh> ssh-keygen -t rsa -b 4096 -f ~/.ssh/rakesh
[09:18] <Rakesh> this is the way i created there
[09:18] <Rakesh> and i need to use he same key in windows
[09:19] <Rakesh> since that public key is used to register my acount in remote server
[09:19] <deni> lifeless: mount --bind works like a charm. tnx
[09:19] <bialix> Rakesh: you wrote: "and whan i tried to configure it there it asks for my private key password"? so I assume you have ssh-agent software
[09:20] <Rakesh> what this ssh-agent doing :)
[09:20] <bialix> Rakesh: if this is not your computer, then maybe you need to ask your system administrator about installed software
[09:21] <bialix> ssh-agent holds your private key so you don't have to type the password every time
[09:21] <lifeless> deni: cool
[09:22] <Rakesh> bialix: okey , i will try once more and if angin the problem persist wil inform the admin
[09:22] <Rakesh> bialix:  thanks for your supoprt
[09:22] <Rakesh> :)
[11:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> dont' remember if i asked this here - is ther a way to remotely rename branches?
[17:01] <hellnest_> hello i've got this invalid http Missing the Content-Range header in a 206 range response
[17:01] <hellnest_> i'm trying to clone a bzr repo
[17:58] <ndurner> Hi
[18:00] <ndurner> The patch https://code.launchpad.net/~ndurner/bzr/bzr-ftp checks for the return code 502, but now I have encountered a server that returns 452 (IIRC) at work
[18:02] <ndurner> 452 is not compliant to RFC 452, which states "insuffient storage"
[18:02] <ndurner> Now, what's the right thing to do here?
[18:03] <ndurner> Interpret any 4xxx and 5xx return code as "server does not implement this"?
[18:03] <ndurner> Or check for 502 and 452 explicitely?
[18:04] <ndurner> * RFC 959
[20:34] <ndurner> it's 451, not 452
[20:35] <ndurner> "Append/Restart not permitted"
[23:06] <jo-erlend> how big overhead does bzr introduce? I was considering placing my entire ~ in revision control. But I have some folders that contain rather large sets of changing data, such as Videos where I download to, and VM_disks. I would like to know when those files have been added, changed and removed, but I would not want to compare their content. What do you think? Will this cause lots of overhead, or should it be doable?
[23:12] <bob2> not doable
[23:13] <bob2> there'sa  thing for git called git-annex, possibly someone has done something similar for bzr
[23:13] <jo-erlend> bob2, why not?
[23:14] <bob2> ?
[23:14] <bob2> because multigigabyte files are expensive for bzr to deal with
[23:15] <bob2> (or any other tool, too, hence git-annex et al)
[23:21] <jo-erlend> ok. But I can exclude those directories?
[23:35] <lifeless> jo-erlend: yes you can exclude them
[23:36] <lifeless> jo-erlend: bzr will need enough memory to hold the entire directory listing in memory, + 2 times the size of your largest file that you choose to version control.
[23:38] <jo-erlend> oh, ok! That makes sense and that makes it rather clear why I cannot put those directories in vcs :)
[23:52] <lifeless> jo-erlend: entire ~ is probably fine; we've tested up to 1M files
[23:52] <lifeless> jo-erlend: though it may get a bit slow :) - and any subdirs that are also bzr projects won't get versioned [because they are their own projects]


[00:00] <cariboo907> works for me :)
[00:00] <s-fox> Works for me
[00:00] <Iowan> Good here...
[00:00] <uRock> +1
[00:00] <Iowan> Time= now +/- 3 hours
[00:01] <s-fox> Again, my worry is for AI
[00:01] <coffeecat> Agreed - this will always be bad for AI
[00:01] <jacob> Why not cycle times every meeting? you'll get a different selection of FC every time
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> because, no time that is good for AI works for anyone else
[00:02] <jacob> that's... tricky.
[00:02] <s-fox> I think we should discuss this further, perhaps vote later
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> so when we look at avability, say there are 4,5,or 6 members available as time foo and bar and another_time
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> It is always AI missing
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> and when you look at AI times, only 1 or 2 members at most are available
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> so , no matter what, we are going to need to learn to communicate outside of FC meetings
[00:03] <s-fox> It is difficult
[00:03] <s-fox> +1 to communication
[00:04] <s-fox> Okay, next topic
[00:04] <s-fox> [TOPIC] New UFM
[00:05] <s-fox> Only one this month, and he is already an ubuntu member....
[00:05] <s-fox> which i still don't understand the point but anyway
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> Is there anyone who does not know cprofitt ?
[00:05] <Iowan> I'm confused - do I also need to re-apply via forums?
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> Iowan: because we have 2 categories
[00:06] <jacob> Iowan: I think he just want to have a more formal forum membership.
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu members -> they all get the little user benefits
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> and Ubuntu Forums Members
[00:06] <bodhi_zazen> Only Ubuntu members active on the forums (UFM) are eligible for staff and to vote
[00:07] <s-fox> Does this mean I need to reapply?
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> so, if they go or have gone through an alternate membership board, they need to apply for UFM
[00:07] <s-fox> I did not get my membership for forums activites
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> I would say so s-fox
[00:07] <Iowan> ditto
[00:07] <cariboo907> Does cprofitt just want to become a UFM so that he is eligible to become a staff member
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> That is the best way to identify UM active on the fourms
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> no cariboo907 , he wants to  vote for staff
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> I do not think it is the general policy of Ubuntu Team, nor do I think we want, all UM to vote for ubuntu forums elections
[00:08] <s-fox> Okay, that I understand
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> As an ubuntu member, if you are not active on IRC, you do not get asked to vote for ubuntu irc board
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> etc
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> I anticipate a small # of these applications
[00:09] <s-fox> [VOTE] cprofitt for UFM
[00:09] <meetingology> Please vote on: cprofitt for UFM
[00:09] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:09] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[00:09] <cariboo907> +0
[00:09] <meetingology> +0 received from cariboo907
[00:09] <coffeecat> +1
[00:09] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[00:09] <s-fox> +11
[00:09] <meetingology> +11 received from s-fox
[00:09] <Iowan> +1
[00:09] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[00:09] <s-fox> Nice vote by me ;)
[00:10] <Iowan> (vote -10 to balance?)
[00:10] <s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
[00:10] <meetingology> Voting ended on: cprofitt for UFM
[00:10] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[00:10] <meetingology> Motion carried
[00:10] <s-fox> mhall119 ping ?
[00:11] <pleia2> good to see another CC member getting more involved with forums (we miss technoviking!)
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo pleia2
[00:11] <pleia2> sorry, don't mean to interrupt meeting :)
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> no bother, glad to have you
[00:12] <s-fox> mhall119 added an item to the agenda wanting to add a programming related forum to the main page rather than under the programming section.  i am not sure on the reasoning and generally think it is unorganised if we do that
[00:12] <mhall119> s-fox: here
[00:12] <s-fox> Hey mhall119 :)
[00:12] <mhall119> mostly
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> I say, add the forum, we can remove it if it is unused
[00:13] <s-fox> [TOPIC] Add top level suport forum for ubuntu app developers
[00:13] <s-fox> mhall119 can you explain your idea please?
[00:14] <mhall119> so one of our big goals in the 12.10 cycle is to build a community of independent application developers
[00:14] <mhall119> and one thing that almost every other developer.*.* website offers app devs is a forum
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: can this be a subsection of the ubuntu+1 forums ?
[00:14] <duanedesign> o/
[00:14] <mhall119> not just for technical/programming support either
[00:14] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: no, it'll be a permanent fixture
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> duanedesign: if it on topic, speak, otherwise wait for open floor
[00:15] <mhall119> so questions and support will range from programming to packaging, pricing, promotion, collaboration, etc
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> Where would you propose we add it ?
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=310
[00:15] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: I was hoping to get it in the "Main Support Categories" area
[00:16] <mhall119> as top-level as possible
[00:17] <mhall119> we'll link to it from developer.ubuntu.com/community
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> I have someone who wants to learn to package the linux-libre kernel into a ppa (they make .deb now, but want to learn better)
[00:17] <mhall119> as one of the official places for app developers to get support and meet other app developers
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> would they use the forums for that sort of activity ?
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> learning to package ?
[00:17] <jacob> I think it sounds like a reasonable idea; it could attract a healthy developer community, and is no worse than any of the partner forums under main support ;)
[00:17] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: no, that's ubuntu development, not app development
[00:18] <mhall119> we're targeting people who make, say, Angry Birds, and wants to make a native Ubuntu version
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> but programming side ?
[00:18] <mhall119> they don't care about kernels or debian packaging with lint --pedantic or all that
[00:18] <s-fox> mhall119 we get people building applications in that section
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> what about packaging ?
[00:18] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: programming will be part of it, but not all of it
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> packaging is a frequent FAQ
[00:18] <s-fox> +1 bodhi_zazen
[00:19] <mhall119> it'll also be pricing, promotion, etc
[00:19] <jacob> makes sense to me, considering the "app" model ubuntu is moving towards. consolidating things might be useful.
[00:19] <jacob> (as much as i despise the word "app")
[00:20] <s-fox> Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat thoughts?
[00:20] <Iowan> Thinking...
[00:20] <mhall119> I don't really want to send them all over the forums, I'd rather give them one place specifically for them
[00:20] <cariboo907> I think it's a good idea
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> +1 mhall119
[00:21] <jacob> echo that
[00:21] <mhall119> just like they expect from other developer portals
[00:21] <Iowan> Probably worth a try - as mentioned about partner subforums
[00:21] <Effenberg0x0> o/
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> If it is on topic Effenberg0x0 speak up
[00:22] <s-fox> Effenberg0x0 go :)
[00:22] <Effenberg0x0> Apps need testers. I see a good opportunity for integration there
[00:22] <mhall119> oh, for added clarification, this will be mainly targetting people who will be submitting apps through MyApps and the ARB, not to Universe
[00:22] <jacob> this almost seems to merit an additional section, even. but a single forum would be good to start with.
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> My 2c are to make this work as best we can
[00:23] <coffeecat> I like Effenberg0x0's point.
[00:24] <Effenberg0x0> QA won't test 3rd parts. Ubuntu+1/U+1 Team can help. Good opportunity for knowledge exchange.
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: can you or someone help develop the description you envision ?
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326
[00:24] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: sure, dpm and I can do that
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> "The perfect place to post for your Ubuntu support if you are new to Linux."
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> We can put it under main for visibility
[00:25] <s-fox> Okay, lets vote.
[00:25] <Iowan> Horse before cart: Loco forum mods?
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> as it evolved , see if it belongs there or if it should be moved to a development section
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: yes, any help with moderating this section ?
[00:25] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: I'd be happy to, dpm will too I'm sure, and we can get he ARB to help too
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> These sorts of discussions can get , err, interesting
[00:26] <s-fox> [VOTE] App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories
[00:26] <meetingology> Please vote on: App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories
[00:26] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> someone to help set the tone would be great
[00:26] <cariboo907> +1
[00:26] <meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> staff can help
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:26] <coffeecat> +1
[00:26] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[00:26] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[00:26] <Iowan> +1
[00:26] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> with spam and stuff
[00:26] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: there's enough stake holders, I'm sure we can find a good group of mods
[00:26] <s-fox> +0
[00:26] <meetingology> +0 received from s-fox
[00:26] <jacob> implicit plus-one ;)
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> I think that would be best
[00:26] <s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
[00:26] <meetingology> Voting ended on: App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories
[00:26] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[00:26] <meetingology> Motion carried
[00:27] <mhall119> you guys rock! thanks so much for addressing this so quickly
[00:27] <s-fox> Okay, mhall119 if you could email  / irc the fc with the description we will do the rest :)
[00:27] <coffeecat> Before we move on. Something for mhall119  and all to think about...
[00:27] <mhall119> s-fox: what email?
[00:28] <s-fox> mhall119 the fc mailing list
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: for future reference : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil
[00:28] <mhall119> thanks
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:29] <coffeecat> mhall119, mentioned "pricing and promotion" With app developers who are new members. Have to give them guidelines so they are not mistaken for spammers.
[00:29] <s-fox> +1 on spam issue
[00:29] <Iowan> Pricing always raises a red flag...
[00:29] <mhall119> coffeecat: yeah, I didn't mean "promote your app on the forums", I meant "ask other app devs what they did for promotion, what work and what didn't, etc"
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> As do links to products off ubuntu web pages from members with < 10-15 posts
[00:30] <coffeecat> mhall119, sure. But some might get it wrong! :)
[00:30] <s-fox> We should make an announcement to the forum population, otherwise  we are going to get buried in reports
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> Part of setting up the forums
[00:30] <Iowan> sticky in neew forum
[00:30] <mhall119> s-fox: we will also likely announce it on the developer portal blog
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> develop description, post guidelines as a sticky
[00:31] <s-fox> mhall119 a lot of the forum users are not devs =)
[00:31] <mhall119> s-fox: right, I was just mentioning it
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> Yea, we chased the dev out with pitchforks and torches =)
[00:31] <s-fox> [ACTION] Sticky in new section outlining post criteria
[00:31] <meetingology> ACTION: Sticky in new section outlining post criteria
[00:32] <s-fox> [ACTION] Post in Cafe about new section
[00:32] <meetingology> ACTION: Post in Cafe about new section
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> any other comments ?
[00:32] <s-fox> [ACTION] Post in PT about new section
[00:32] <meetingology> ACTION: Post in PT about new section
[00:33] <s-fox> Nothing from me
[00:33] <s-fox> Anyone else?
[00:33] <Iowan> nothing from here
[00:33] <coffeecat> Nothing more here
[00:33] <s-fox> [TOPIC] U+1 moving
[00:33] <mhall119> thanks again, I'll get with dpm tomorrow to write up that description and some guidelines from our side, then you guys can add whatever guidelines you think will be needed
[00:34] <s-fox> moergaes added this  item
[00:34] <moergaes> Yes
[00:34] <s-fox> moergaes you have the floor =)
[00:34] <moergaes> Thanks.
[00:34] <moergaes> We have talked somewhat about this in the staff forum
[00:34] <moergaes> but I would like to hear if we have an agreement / decision.
[00:34] <moergaes> Ubuntu+1 is different from all other fora
[00:34] <moergaes> as the purpose is not support, but software development
[00:34] <moergaes> (particularly testing and bug reporting).
[00:35] <moergaes> Therefore support request should not go there IMHO.
[00:35] <moergaes> My suggestion:
[00:35] <cariboo907> I think the point is moot, as Precise comes out tomorrow, and there will be a new QQ subforum,
[00:35] <moergaes> This is meant for U+1 in general
[00:35] <moergaes> not only this cycle.
[00:35] <s-fox> cariboo907 please wait until moergaes is done. :)
[00:36] <moergaes> I suggest that all threads in U+1 should serve a purpose regarding software development
[00:36] <cariboo907> OK :(
[00:36] <moergaes> else they should be moved (or stay) somewhere else
[00:36] <moergaes> mostly Absolute Beginner Talk.
[00:36] <quackers> o/
[00:36] <moergaes> Comments?
[00:37] <Iowan> where should U+1 support go?
[00:37] <Effenberg0x0> o/
[00:37] <jacob> agreed. but when do we decide to stop moving threads *in* and start moving them *out* into general areas? 2 weeks before release? beta 2?
[00:37] <s-fox> go Effenberg0x0
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:37] <Effenberg0x0> Mark created Development release USERS (not testers) when he did this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/938, which was foralized here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-plusonemaint-priorities
[00:37] <Effenberg0x0> Therefore, users exist, users need support. And we benefit from converting support requests into new testers.
[00:37] <uRock> Maybe have two sub-sections, one for devs and another for support?
[00:38] <jacob> i like that idea uRock
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> +1 uRock
[00:38] <jacob> U+1 forum always seemed a bit cluttered
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> u+1 have grown
[00:38] <cariboo907> We have very few developers in that section, they mainly answer support questions
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> quackers: go
[00:38] <jacob> also, I also think that U+1 support/development should be moved up a little bit. it's quite hidden, and many threads moved there are made by those who didn't see it
[00:39] <quackers> where should testers of the current development release ask for support, if not in U + 1
[00:39] <quackers> ?
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> could move it under general ...
[00:39] <quackers> isn't that thinning an already limited supply of help?
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> Let me try to answer that quackers , if I may ...
[00:39] <s-fox> we'd be flooded with reports if they do not have their own section
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> There are no absolutes, people (including staff) need to use judgement
[00:40] <Effenberg0x0> This release (QQ) is about quality. We need more common users testing the Development Release. I ask you to consider that cautiously in any change we do to the current structure.
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> Lets say a user needs support on u+1 ...
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> Is is a question that is very general - how do I install software ?
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> If it is general enough , leave it in ABT or GH or wherever
[00:40] <quackers> not usually
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> Or is it specific to U+1
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> In that case, it needs to be moved
[00:41] <jacob> doesn't that really echo current policy? :)
[00:41] <quackers> often specific imo
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> This last release cycle was NOT typical
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> it was MUCH MUCH more stable
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> wait until X fails on u+1
[00:41] <cariboo907> We usually make some suggestions, and help the new user along, as long as the question is concerneing the development release
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> so u+1 specific support / development -> u+1
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> there will always be judgement involved
[00:42] <cariboo907> that's my thought
[00:42] <quackers> for me, yes
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> Does the support question pertain to development , development specific problems ?
[00:42] <quackers> itconcentrates users
[00:42] <s-fox> Okay, I see a few people in agreement on an idea. Time to vote
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> Or is it general enough to remain in ABT ?
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> If in doubt -> move to u+1
[00:43] <coffeecat> One problem is the "naive" user who has no intention of testing, install an alpha or beta without knowing what they are and needs help. It dilutes the U+1 forum.
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> until a stable beta ?
[00:43] <moergaes> coffeecat: Exactly
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> +1 coffeecat
[00:43] <moergaes> that was my point.
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> But again, this release cycle was more stable then average
[00:44] <s-fox> [VOTE]  u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT
[00:44] <meetingology> Please vote on: u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT
[00:44] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:44] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[00:44] <cariboo907> +1
[00:44] <meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
[00:44] <coffeecat> +1
[00:44] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[00:44] <s-fox> +1
[00:44] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[00:44] <s-fox> Iowan ?
[00:44] <Iowan> +0
[00:44] <meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
[00:44] <s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
[00:44] <meetingology> Voting ended on: u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT
[00:44] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[00:44] <meetingology> Motion carried
[00:45] <s-fox> Great =)
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> Open floor ?
[00:45] <Effenberg0x0> o/ May I? (Two quick remarks, no need to discuss it in-depth now, just a proposal for you to consider)
[00:45] <moergaes> Thanks!
[00:45] <s-fox> Last item
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:45] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen after the division of labour you will have the floor
[00:45] <cariboo907> WHo is going to move the Precise sub-forum to the archove
[00:45] <Effenberg0x0> Oops
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> naw, give it to Effenberg0x0 first
[00:45] <cariboo907> archive
[00:45] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen okay
[00:45] <cariboo907> +1
[00:46] <s-fox> [TOPIC] Division of labour
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> you all see my tl;dr every day
[00:46] <s-fox> Who wants the team report this month?
[00:46] <Iowan> (pass)
[00:47]  * cariboo907 will
[00:47] <s-fox> [ACTION] Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907
[00:47] <meetingology> ACTION: Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: volunteered earlier
[00:47] <s-fox> who wants the admin thread ?
[00:47] <Iowan> I'll help!
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:47] <s-fox> [ACTION] Admin thread -> Iowan
[00:47] <meetingology> ACTION: Admin thread -> Iowan
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> doh -
[00:48] <s-fox> Who wants to swat trolls on the mailing list?
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> and spam
[00:48]  * coffeecat is game for some troll swatting.
[00:48] <s-fox> [ACTION] Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen
[00:48] <coffeecat> And spam!!!!
[00:48] <meetingology> ACTION: Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> unless you have a better task for me oh great one (s-fox)
[00:49] <s-fox> [ACTION] s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam
[00:49] <meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam
[00:49] <coffeecat> lol
[00:49] <s-fox> I think that is it
[00:49] <s-fox> Effenberg0x0 has the floor
[00:49] <Iowan> Ban reversal candidates?
[00:49] <bodhi_zazen> blog.bodhizazen.net |<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> There are none Iowan
[00:50] <Effenberg0x0> May I?
[00:50] <s-fox> yes
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> No ban reversal candidates added themselves to the agenda, none showed up
[00:50] <Effenberg0x0> Thanks, I have two items for you to consider. We can discuss both in the future as we're short on time now.
[00:50] <Effenberg0x0> #1 (The small one): This cycle is about quality. We need more common users testing the Dev. Release. If possible, I'd like Ubuntu+1 to move up a little in the forum sections. It's a little hidden, and that is not compatible to current Ubuntu strategy.
[00:50] <s-fox> don't worry, we're only 55 mins over our allocation of an hour
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> Effenberg0x0: np, in the future = add them to agenda ;)
[00:51] <Effenberg0x0> Ok bodhi_zazen
[00:51] <Effenberg0x0> And #2
[00:51] <jacob> +1 Effenberg0x0
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> +1 to moving it to main =)
[00:51] <uRock> another +1
[00:51] <coffeecat> +1 from me
[00:51] <cariboo907> +1 from me too
[00:51] <s-fox> [VOTE] Move u+1 so it is more visible
[00:51] <meetingology> Please vote on: Move u+1 so it is more visible
[00:51] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:52] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[00:52] <cariboo907> +1
[00:52] <meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
[00:52] <Iowan> +0
[00:52] <coffeecat> +1
[00:52] <meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
[00:52] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[00:52] <s-fox> +1
[00:52] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[00:52] <uRock> (plus one)
[00:52] <Effenberg0x0> wow, great, huge support! Thanks guys! Let me paste text for the next request.
[00:52] <s-fox> [ENDVOTE]
[00:52] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Move u+1 so it is more visible
[00:52] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[00:52] <meetingology> Motion carried
[00:53] <Effenberg0x0> #2 (The big one): UF – U+1Team partnership. The U+1 Team is independent from QA and any other structure, reporting only to CC. But it is strongly related to UF (and UF's Ubuntu+1 sub-forum). Initially, most of our members came from UF, including some UF staff and Ubuntu members via Forums. We even have 2 UF Council members in our team. I personally see UF as the most successful endeavor of Ubuntu in on-line communities.
[00:53] <Effenberg0x0> We need to work together. U+1 team was designed to work via partnerships, with defined term lengths, goals, tasks, limited scope, metrics. In this sense, I'd like to propose such a partnership between U+1 and UF.
[00:53] <Effenberg0x0> UF can benefit from having some of it's staff involved in learning in testing, QA and technical work – a glimpse of a broader Ubuntu universe. UF can also recruit staff and candidates to Members from U+1 (likely technical and committed to Ubuntu).
[00:53] <Effenberg0x0> U+1 Team can benefit from having more Ubuntu-commited members in testing (and possibly DOC and other activities) and strong recruitment to testing via Forums. Forums are also (IMO) an amazing thermometer of Ubuntu software quality.
[00:53] <Effenberg0x0> We can work to draft a scope for such partnership together and define a term-length of one development cycle as a trial. I can have a draft for your appreciation in a week or so.
[00:53] <Effenberg0x0> whew
[00:54] <s-fox> +1 on reviewing a draft
[00:54] <s-fox> The idea really needs some discussion
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> discussion would be great, plan sounds solid
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> continue to build on success
[00:55] <Effenberg0x0> I think it's a win-win. For UF and U+1 Team. We just need to set details.
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:55] <s-fox> Effenberg0x0 could you prepare the draft and  get it to a the FC?
[00:56] <Effenberg0x0> s-fox, sure. Gie a couple days and I'll send it to FC mail, ok?
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> Effenberg0x0: and add an item to FC agenda
[00:56] <Effenberg0x0> bodhi_zazen, Ok, will do
[00:56] <uRock> Gotta go. It's been nice... 8)
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> Unresolved items -> carry over
[00:56] <s-fox> [ACTION] Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda
[00:56] <meetingology> ACTION: Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda
[00:57] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen floor is yours
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> Just a few short comments on #ubuntuforums
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> The channel is intended to be a voice for the community and a place for staff to interact
[00:57] <bodhi_zazen> It seems to be working well
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> feel free to participate, including steering the occasional discussion of items on the FC agenda
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> encourage discussion of community issues
[00:58] <bodhi_zazen> as staff, you are the facilitators
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> We simply get more done, and have more community support for change if we have the discussion with the community
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen>  /end
[00:59] <cariboo907> o/
[00:59] <s-fox> cariboo907 go
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> go cariboo907
[00:59] <cariboo907> Who is going to move the Precise sub-forum to the archive, and create a new one for QQ
[01:00] <bodhi_zazen> are you volunteering cariboo907 ?
[01:00] <cariboo907> I guess I am, it will just be a bit later this time around,
[01:01] <Effenberg0x0> Is archiving it really needed? Considering many bugs and workarounds are persistent?
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> OK, if you need help, let us know
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> not archiving, closing (I assume)
[01:01] <s-fox> [ACTION]  cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum
[01:01] <meetingology> ACTION: cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum
[01:01] <s-fox> Okay, anything else?
[01:01] <Iowan> New member message?
[01:02] <s-fox> Oh yes, can i do it this month?
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> \o/
[01:02] <Iowan> +1
[01:02] <cariboo907> +1
[01:02] <s-fox> [ACTION] New member message -> s-fox
[01:02] <meetingology> ACTION: New member message -> s-fox
[01:02] <coffeecat> s-fox, I;m so glad! :)
[01:03] <s-fox> Anything else? not like we're running late or anything
[01:03] <s-fox> ;)
[01:03] <Iowan> done here...
[01:03] <cariboo907> that's it for me, I'm getting hungry :)
[01:03] <s-fox> i have work in 4 hours and yet to sleep
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> getting long in the tooth
[01:03] <Iowan> eeewww
[01:03] <jacob> it's a comfortable 9pm here :3
[01:04] <moergaes> Thanks for now. Good night, everybody.
[01:04] <mhall119> east coast!
[01:04] <cariboo907> it's only 18:00 here
[01:04] <cariboo907> on the Pacific coast
[01:04] <s-fox> okay
[01:04] <coffeecat> 2 in the morning here. :(
[01:04] <jacob> good meeting all, night
[01:04] <s-fox> #endmeeting
[01:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 26 01:04:41 2012 UTC.
[01:04] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-23.02.moin.txt
[01:04] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-23.02.html
[01:04] <Effenberg0x0> Thank you guys
[01:04] <jacob> <-- jacob pretends to leave the channel but never really does
[01:04] <mhall119> g'night s-fox
[01:05] <s-fox> Can someone grab that link please ?
[01:05] <s-fox> my tablet is giving me issues
[01:05] <jacob> short link: http://j.mp/IEXiqp
[01:06] <jacob> can post to SCC if wanted
[01:06] <Iowan> (post it)
[01:07] <jacob> done
[01:07] <s-fox> Thanks jacob
[01:07] <jacob> np
[01:08] <s-fox> I am going, thanks for coming everyone
[01:08] <jacob> bye s-fox
[01:08] <oldos2er> thaanks, s-fox
[01:10] <wildmanne39> Is the floor open to questions?
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> yes wildmanne39 , but FC members are drooping like flies -> move to #ubuntuforums
[01:13] <wildmanne39> I did thanks bodhi_zazen


[00:54] <delt> *sigh* just updated my laptop to 14.04.... now i got duplicates of several "indicator" icons... how do i get rid of them?a
[00:54] <delt> also, a several second delay before the alt+f2 box appears
[00:57] <delt> two different power indicators.... two different bluetooth indicators, although the icons are exactly the same...
[00:57] <delt> ?????
[00:59] <delt> my "normal" fix would be to chmod -x the executable files, but what's the "proper" way to get rid of these?
[01:08] <malutande> hello
[01:08] <malutande> from paraguay!
[01:10] <delt> half the keyboard shortcuts don't work....
[01:12] <delt> even though they're still listed correctly in the keyboard control panel
[01:12] <malutande> anybody on how to MOUNT ISO files?
[01:12] <OvenWerk1> delt: That was my experience too. I ended up just doing a fresh install
[01:12] <malutande> GUI?
[01:13] <delt> OvenWerk1: that's what i think i'm gonna do.... :/
[01:14] <OvenWerk1> malutande: do you just want to see what is inside, or more?
[01:15] <OvenWerk1> malutande: just right clicking on the iso in the file manager will allow you to look inside with the archive manager.
[01:15] <malutande> OvenWerk1, i want to test a DVD i made with dvd styler
[01:15] <malutande> mount it as a DVD before burning, for testing purpouses
[01:16] <malutande> OvenWerk1, i ussually did it with gnome
[01:16] <OvenWerk1> I don't have anything to try that with :(
[01:17] <malutande> but now xfce got difficult
[01:17] <OvenWerk1> I would think any of the video players that play dvds direct should do that though.
[01:18] <delt> over a whole minute before it logs out...
[01:20] <malutande> vlc did the trick, OvenWerk1 !!
[01:20] <malutande> TYVM
[01:20] <OvenWerk1> That would have been my first try too.
[06:04] <delt> ubuntustudio 14.10 is BETA quality, at best. It should still be in beta, and not yet officially released.
[06:06] <Unit193> It's not even alpha...
[06:17] <delt> i'm gonna go with linux mint for my non-studio needs, at least for now...
[06:18] <delt> anyway, be back later
[06:53] <jhenke> hi, just for your information, the problem I have now also has a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1315921 which is apparently being looked at by the kernel team, just if your are curious about the status and progress
[09:40] <Sakrecoer>  /msg ChanServ OP #basspistol sakrecoe1
[14:20] <rhizo> Hi folks
[15:17] <rhizo> I added a rme digi96 soundcard in my pci slot, ubuntu studio 13.04 installation and ran into a problem I already encountered a while before
[15:17] <rhizo> the rme sound module exits with an errorcode and the card cannot be used
[15:18] <rhizo> I switched the pci slot and it worked
[15:18] <rhizo> but this time all the slots are occupied and the only solution I found was this
[15:18] <rhizo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1802008
[15:19] <rhizo> ...to switch the slot
[15:19] <rhizo> I upgraded to 14.04 and hoped that it will work then
[15:20] <rhizo> but I have the same problem
[15:20] <rhizo> Does anyone have experience and can give me a hint where I can have a look to find a workaround for this?
[15:22] <rhizo> should not be an alsa related thing, other cards are reported by someone that posted the bug report on launchpad as not working, too
[15:23] <holstein> rhizo: test if its an "alsa related thing"
[15:23] <holstein> RME is typically well supported.. and should just work out of the box
[15:24] <holstein> rhizo: i would get a 14.04 live CD, and just follow some normal troubleshooting and testing.. looks like you could have bad hardware.. something bad on the motherboard?
[15:24] <rhizo> I switched the cards around and its everytime the rme in the same pci slot that stops working...
[15:24] <holstein> rhizo: sure.. so, is that not an issue with the slot? or motherboard?
[15:24] <holstein> seems hardware related.. you could confirmm with the  live CD on other hardware.. another motherboard
[15:25] <rhizo> I will test it to be sure about
[15:28] <rhizo> hm, I wish I had another box around... could test it with another OS and look if the card works there
[15:28] <holstein> rhizo: if you can test it with an officially supported OS, you can tell if the hardware is functioning properly.. but, RME should provide linux support
[15:29] <holstein> rhizo: testing with a live CD is a good test, since it removes a few things from the current equation, and lets you isolate variables
[15:30] <rhizo> I thought of having another linux live cd running on the same machine, because thats the only piece of hardware I have access to
[15:30] <rhizo> with pci slots at least...
[15:30] <holstein> sure.. that will test with the current OS and user config and hard drive removed from the equation
[15:36] <rhizo> with ubuntu 13.04 and 14.04 live and installed it was not working, I download a gentoo live cd and take a look if it crashes also or is working
[15:36] <holstein> 13.04 is EOL
[15:36] <holstein> but, its a good test case
[15:37] <holstein> i would expect what you are describing from a hardware issue.. though, im not implying that is the case..
[15:38] <holstein> i try and remove *all* other hardware.. i'll disable un-needed/wanted hardware in the bios.. get down to as few variables as possible.. and test with a few key live CD's
[15:38] <rhizo> the error that was reported I found on the internet exists from 10.04
[15:39] <holstein> sure.. and you stated changing the PCI slot had effect? correct?
[15:39] <rhizo> I already disabled and changed a lot in the bios and booted stepwise until acpi=off kernel options
[15:39] <holstein> rhizo: why is changing PCI slots not an option?
[15:39] <rhizo> yes, thats why I have to be sure it is working under another os
[15:40] <rhizo> I only have 3 pci slots... and 3 rme digi96 cards :-(
[15:40] <holstein> rhizo: it is currently *not* working in another OS>. none you have tried
[15:40] <holstein> rhizo: you should be testing with *one* card.. you are, correct?
[15:40] <holstein> rhizo: dont mix in multiple audio devices, *and* the question "is this card working"
[15:41] <rhizo> yesterday I had one card going down the slots
[15:41] <rhizo> then another card
[15:41] <rhizo> and the last
[15:41] <holstein> rhizo: so, one device, works as expected?
[15:42] <rhizo> one device works in 2 slots, but in the last pci slot not
[15:42] <holstein> rhizo: test, swapping in the other cards.. til you are sure all 3 work properly
[15:42] <rhizo> all the cards did this
[15:42] <rhizo> I will check it again
[15:42] <holstein> rhizo: ok.. it will always be challenging to use multiple cards like that, regardless
[15:43] <holstein> rhizo: if it were me, i would be talking to RME and las or someone with JACK or alsa about how to properly configure multiple devices..
[15:43] <holstein> rhizo: you can try #opensourcemusicians
[15:43] <holstein> but, i feel like you should lead with "im trying to configure 3 cards".. you have a lot of variables going on...
[15:43] <rhizo> ok thanks for the hints
[15:46] <rhizo> I check this with one network card, too...I doubt it isnt working either
[15:46] <rhizo> in the bad slot I mean
[15:46] <holstein> rhizo: dont assume its a bad slot
[15:47] <holstein> rhizo: i think testing with a known good networking card would be a good test..
[15:47] <rhizo> no, it's only my fuzzy english
[15:47] <holstein> something that works in the other "known good" slot
[15:47] <holstein> rhizo: i think you are on the correct path here.. to figuring out what is up
[15:47] <rhizo> hehe
[15:49] <rhizo> hm, I could try with ubuntu 32 bit also... the guy on the internet had also 64bit system
[15:50] <holstein> rhizo: that wont hurt.. the live CD should be enough to test that..
[15:53] <rhizo> while the downloads are coming in, I'll fetch some discs out of a local store before it is too late to buy them...


[08:50] <tankenmate> whats the status of the chromium-browser ppa?
[08:50]  * maxb wonders why on earth tankenmate would think this was a sensible channel to ask that in
[08:50] <tankenmate> because asac pointed me here...
[08:51] <maxb> huh, odd. Seeing as its neither mozilla, nor ubuntu itself
[08:51] <asac> well
[08:51] <asac> traditionally the folks here took care of chromium
[08:52] <asac> chrisccoulson: ^^
[08:52] <asac> micahg: ^^
[08:52] <asac> you guys know who owns chromium now?
[08:52] <tankenmate> i tried to reach out to micah, but he isn't awake at the moment...
[08:52] <asac> yeah you have to wait for him to come on
[08:52] <asac> chrisccoulson might be better ... he will have pointers
[08:52] <asac> (i am sure)
[08:53] <tankenmate> ack, i'll re login from screen on my server, brb
[12:07] <micahg> so, Chromium is stalled ATM since I don't have time to work on it, kenvandine has been doing some work on it, I'll give reviving the PPAs another go once my current project is done if enough people want to help to keep it going
[12:07] <micahg> asac: tankenmate: ^^
[12:17] <asac> micahg: ok thats interesting
[12:17] <asac> micahg: basically no owner?
[12:18] <asac> is ubuntu-desktop team looking at it a bit?
[12:18] <chrisccoulson> asac - there is a vacancy for it
[12:18] <chrisccoulson> i still think that product strategy should maintain it ;)
[12:19] <chrisccoulson> (and firefox for that matter too)
[12:21] <asac> chrisccoulson: you don't want to work anymore?
[12:21] <asac> :)
[12:22] <asac> or want to move to ps?
[12:23] <chrisccoulson> asac - oh, i want to work, but i just want ps to appreciate the cost of them doing their own thing with other people's apps (as opposed to their fire-and-forget method of throwing patches and changes over the wall and then forgetting about them)
[12:24] <asac> chrisccoulson: they want you to maintain a downstream fork you say>?
[12:24] <asac> thats always aweful
[12:24] <asac> what you should do is setup an automerge bot where folks can register their topics
[12:24] <asac> and have rules in place that if stuff doesn't merge/work anymore it will be dropped with 2 week prenotice
[12:24] <chrisccoulson> asac - i know that they want to ship patches for chromium, but they always seem to think that there is zero cost to platform in doing that :/
[12:24] <asac> in this way you can still keep the bits together, while they have to own their changes until they are upstream
[21:50] <tankenmate> micahg: sorry is was out and about today, i'd be interested in helping out with the chromium PPA
[21:51] <micahg> tankenmate: ok, added you to the list
[21:51] <micahg> thanks


[02:16] <EvilResistance> .
[02:16] <EvilResistance> whoops :P
[15:26] <Robint91> hi wylde
[15:28] <wylde> Robint91: hiya
[17:52]  * EvilResistance yawns
[17:52] <EvilResistance> hello
[18:57] <GraemeLion> 996758 can be triaged and wishlist.
[18:58] <EvilResistance> LP Bug 996758
[18:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 996758 in software-center "Browse software by publisher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/996758
[22:50] <nikitakit> ubunt-bug against 'xserver-xorg-input-wacom' is telling me that "development is completed" and I should contact tech support instead. That doesn't sound right
[22:53] <nikitakit> screenshot: http://tinypic.com/r/13zmhdv/6
[22:55] <Resistance> nikitakit, which bug?
[22:56] <Resistance> nikitakit, better question: are you using a beta version or did you upgrade from a beta to a full or something?
[22:56] <nikitakit> I upgraded from oneiric
[22:57] <Resistance> ahh
[22:58] <nikitakit> The message is specific to the wacom package, most other packages don't do that
[22:58] <Resistance> probably because its Wacom's stuff
[22:58] <Resistance> try using the third option there
[22:58] <Resistance> third continue option
[22:59] <nikitakit> Will do. If I use that option (or if I hit cancel) it actually lets me report a bug. But that doesn't exactly make for a pleasant experience
[23:25] <Resistance> bugcontrol members: this (I believe) should have importance level of Medium:  LP Bug 991179
[23:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 991179 in boinc "7.0.24 "computation error" bug" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991179


[01:56] <akakako> I AM HERE TO MEET UBUNTU
[01:56] <akakako> IS UBUNTU HERE?
[01:57] <akakako> I AM HERE TO MEET UBUNTU
[01:57] <akakako> I AM HERE TO MEET UBUNTU
[01:57] <akakako> I AM HERE TO MEET UBUNTU
[02:51] <sirdancealot1> the funny is strong in this one
[20:57]  * stgraber waves
[20:59] <pitti> bonsoir tout le monde
[20:59] <cjwatson> hi
[20:59] <stgraber> Guten Abend pitti!
[20:59] <soren> o/
[21:01] <stgraber> #startmeeting Technical Board meeting
[21:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 21 21:01:41 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[21:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:01] <stgraber> #topic Action review
[21:02] <stgraber> None that I can see on the wiki or remember
[21:02] <stgraber> #topic SRU MAAS and its dependencies - AndresRodriguez (roaksoax)
[21:03] <pitti> hm, did I miss an email to tb@, or is that IRC discussion matter?
[21:03] <stgraber> soren: you mentioned this item in your meeting reminder but I don't see it on the wiki or the ML :)
[21:04] <stgraber> pitti: good, it's not just me who's missing an e-mail ;)
[21:04] <soren> stgraber: How do you not see in on the wiki? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda?action=diff&rev1=473&rev2=474
[21:04] <cjwatson> but it's been removed ...
[21:04] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda?action=diff&rev2=474&rev1=473
[21:04] <soren> I  just pinged Andres in #ubuntu-server.
[21:04] <cjwatson> (er, that URL is effectively the same as yours)
[21:05] <soren> Er..
[21:05] <stgraber> right, was removed a few hours ago by Andres, probably because of today being a public holiday where he lives
[21:05] <soren> Hm, ok.
[21:05] <stgraber> alright, moving on then :)
[21:05] <soren> Sorry about the confusion. :)
[21:05] <soren> It really was there when I sent out that e-mail :)
[21:05] <stgraber> not your fault, your e-mail was right when you sent it, it's just my fault for not thinking of digging into wiki history ;)
[21:05] <stgraber> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
[21:06] <stgraber> Looks like we took care of everything by e-mail and don't have anything to discuss here
[21:06] <cjwatson> either we rock or are very boring
[21:06] <stgraber> I prefer to think the former ;)
[21:07] <stgraber> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
[21:07] <stgraber> "
[21:07] <stgraber> There are currently no open bugs.
[21:07] <stgraber> "
[21:07] <stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
[21:07] <kees> apologies for my lateness. here now
[21:07] <stgraber> so, who's next?
[21:07] <kees> I haven't run one in a while.
[21:07] <soren> I forget, do we go by name or irc nick?
[21:08] <kees> I think it's been by name.
[21:08] <stgraber> I think I'm last by both firstname and irc nick and Colin is first in both cases, so I guess it's cjwatson
[21:08] <pitti> traditionally by order on https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members I think
[21:08] <cjwatson> fine by me
[21:09] <stgraber> #action cjwatson to chair the next TB meeting
[21:09] <meetingology> ACTION: cjwatson to chair the next TB meeting
[21:09] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[21:09]  * stgraber waves to mdz
[21:09] <stgraber> anything, anyone?
[21:09] <pitti> nothing from me
[21:09] <pitti> FYI, still waiting for replies on the brainstorm review
[21:09] <mdz> hi
[21:09] <mdz> sorry I'm late
[21:10] <stgraber> that's fine, not much to discuss, we've done everything by e-mail already :)
[21:10]  * kees nods
[21:10] <stgraber> alright, see you all in two weeks then!
[21:10] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[21:10] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 21 21:10:38 2013 UTC.
[21:10] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-21-21.01.moin.txt
[21:10] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-21-21.01.html
[21:11] <cjwatson> Ha, I just got the Google Calender reminder for this meeting
[21:11] <cjwatson> er, thanks, Mountain View
[21:11] <stgraber> ;)
[21:11] <kees> thanks stgraber!
[21:12] <pitti> thanks everyone
[21:12] <pitti> and good night!


[03:07] <patdk-lp> dk2, you have issues, or if it's a vm, heh, something isn't right
[05:29] <hhee> good time. how can i set bash to show full hostname in prompt? right now i have, for example - name@ubuntu:~$  --but i need<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- in /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname - already ubuntu.zone
[13:12] <Killerup> hello
[15:02] <pmatulis> hello
[18:02] <Troupal> hello!
[18:03] <Troupal> Someone know what distro I can use for a serveur web + media/dlna + nas ? And if I can make a server with the 2 part (nas/media/dlna + web/mail/irc) separated (nas on private network, not on Internet) ?
[18:03] <Troupal> Sorry for my English ^^
[18:09] <Troupal> There is nobody here?
[18:09] <odc> weekends are always quiet
[18:10] <odc> Troupal: you can do that with any linux distribution
[18:10] <odc> you just need to learn how to do it ;)
[18:10] <Troupal> odc: exactly!
[18:11] <Troupal> But I hope I can do that with a respecable level of security.
[18:11] <odc> ubuntu would be a good fit for a NAS because it now supports ZFS
[18:12] <odc> will you run php on your web server ?
[18:12] <Troupal> And you know if it's easy to do nas and web server with the nas totaly broken of Internet?
[18:12] <Troupal> Maybe not, Ruby.
[18:12] <odc> good
[18:13] <odc> i suppose your server is behind a router?
[18:13] <odc> like a freebox?
[18:14] <Troupal> Yes, orange.
[18:15] <odc> je vois
[18:15] <Troupal> Tu es français?
[18:15] <odc> so no problem, your box will protect your server
[18:15] <odc> it's like a firewall
[18:15] <Troupal> With the redirection of port or juste firewall ?
[18:15] <odc> you don't need to make "2 parts"
[18:15] <Troupal> *just
[18:16] <odc> yes
[18:16] <Troupal> Ok, so, it's perfect! =)
[18:16] <odc> if you want more protection, put your we suff in a VM or a (well configured) container
[18:16] <odc> web*
[18:17] <Troupal> And I'm on Manjaro, I think a rolling release is better for nas and version of the software, but for the security, what is better?
[18:18] <odc> hm
[18:18] <odc> i should be equivalent since Ubuntu backports security updates
[18:19] <odc> you can keep manjaro if you think it will be easy to maintain over several years
[18:24] <Doow> I have a dedicated server for a game that I'd like to keep running all the time. Does it make sense to write a systemd service wrapper for it, or should I follow some other path? (at least one tutorial suggests using screen). The game is not mine, and I don't have access to the source.
[19:59] <sarnold> Doow: screen makes sense if you ever need to interact with it
[19:59] <sarnold> Doow: otherwise I'd write a systemd service file for it
[20:15] <Doow> sarnold: thanks =)


[00:34] <Riddell> valorie: was the problem you had with next and next-backports just the kf5 update problem?
[01:32] <sgclark> Riddell: yeah sorry still having issues with my mail server and couldn't respond. I have to focus on my web server atm sorry :(
[02:11] <VolUTFan> I found a menu bug in vivid with KDE Partition Manager trying to open.  Running cmd ubuntu-bug partitionmanager doesn't give me an option to add notes.  When you open the app from the menu, gives you an error, from terminal no problems.
[02:12] <VolUTFan> im not sure there is an actual problem with the application, but rather with the way it is being called from the kicker menu.  How can I effectivelly report this
[03:08] <ScottK> VolUTFan: report the bug using ubuntu-bug and then after the initial report is done, you can add the information. Once you've done so, feel free to ping me.
[03:08] <VolUTFan> so far in an hour I have found 5 bugs
[03:08] <VolUTFan> will do
[03:11] <VolUTFan> Do I need to throw my hardware profile in the notes?  or with the ubuntu-bug app grab that
[03:45] <VolUTFan> Scott, I logged the bugs the best I can.
[05:09] <mitya57> ScottK: No problem, I will fix & reupload today (but it will be 5.4.1).
[05:59] <valorie> Riddell: yes, that day I did a regular update/upgrade
[06:04] <valorie> soee: I'm using konvi in Vivid
[06:04] <valorie> right now, in fact
[06:11] <valorie> and I've never seen a spike in CPU use
[07:04] <ejat> hi .. i just upgrade to vivid ..
[07:04] <ejat> after login to plasma ..
[07:04] <ejat> i dont have the application bar/frame
[07:05] <ejat> anything that i can do to reset ? or etc ?
[07:07] <valorie> support is in #ubuntu+1 ejat
[07:07] <valorie> or #plasma
[07:07] <ejat> okie thanks valorie
[07:23] <ejat> i cant see kwin_x11 package
[07:24] <ejat> owh my bad .. kwin :)
[07:34] <valorie> that is bad
[08:05] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:21] <sitter_> Riddell: ping
[10:43] <Riddell> hi sitter
[10:44] <sitter> Riddell: yo. libkdegames and libkmahjongg in apps 15.04 will be kf5 based we will still have dependees on kdelibs4 though ... so question is should the new source be renamed or the old?
[10:44] <sitter> i.e. libkdegames-kf5 or libkdegames-kdelibs4
[10:48] <sitter> also should I ditch the epoch? there will be no package overlap
[10:48] <Riddell> sitter: good question but a gooder question first might be what do we want to do with 15.04
[10:48] <Riddell> I assume it's too late for Kubuntu 15.04
[10:48] <Riddell> so it'll be for kci and kubuntu 15.10?
[10:49] <sitter> yeah
[10:49] <sitter> well, kubuntu 15.10 and backports PPA
[10:50] <Riddell> good point
[10:50] <sitter> kci + kubuntu 15.10 + backports PPA xD
[10:51] <Riddell> how about following what happened with konsole4 and kate4 and have a libkdegames4 ?
[10:51] <sitter> fine by me
[10:51] <valorie> first tragedy in vivid: no kpatience!
[10:51] <sitter> Riddell: what to do with kdegames-card-data ... kdegames-card-data-kf5?
[10:52] <valorie> so i had to work instead of wasting time
[10:52] <sitter> fun story: that data package had a more reasonable albeit unreadable name earlier ;)
[10:53] <Riddell> sitter: the same pattern would be to treat the old one as the recovered one and have kdegames-card-data4
[10:53] <Riddell> and the new one as the new norm and have kdegames-card-data
[10:53] <sitter> also on a related note ... the naming scheme qml-module-foo is going to cause major headaches when qt6 comes along
[10:54] <Riddell> qml is a naming headache in itself
[10:54] <sitter> Riddell: for kdegames renaming the old data means a lot of adjustment though
[10:54] <sitter> also it means I need to CI the old libkdegames which is the bigger tragedy here xD
[10:55] <Riddell> ok do whatever is easiest then :)
[10:55] <sitter> pft :P
[10:57] <Riddell> but it's nice to avoid having to rename sources compared to upstream is my thinking and we'll have the new kf5 sources around for more than the old kdelibs4
[11:01] <sitter> Riddell: I entirely agree as far as sources are concerned. for binaries that provide shared stuff it's generally meh though as with kdegames-card-data. those should probably grow a version
[11:02] <sitter> otherwise we have to do the same crap for kf6, also that's the problem with the qml-module stuff
[11:05] <sitter> oh
[11:06] <sitter> mitya57: please add the kde-buildsystem group to the lconvert review
[11:08] <sitter> and sorry, I didn't realize that group wasn't on the review previously
[11:09] <mitya57> Ok.
[11:12] <sitter> Riddell: then again about the data package ... the only reason the new version isn't a drop-in replacement for the old data package is because the paths are different so that might very well not be a problem for kf6
[11:12]  * sitter very torn now
[11:20] <sitter> Riddell: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/applications/libkdegames.git/commit/?h=kubuntu_unstable&id=d494c1c2cb4a90218f6a58b740874a607a5fb8bb
[11:29] <Riddell> sitter: looks good
[11:49] <Riddell> hoo rah, calligra went in
[11:49] <Riddell> I don't know why but every time I touch that package it takes 10 times longer than it should
[11:56] <sgclark> morning
[11:57] <lordievader> o/
[12:00] <sitter> actually
[12:01] <sitter> Riddell: maybe we should just call it libkf5kdegames-data? kmahjongg has the exact same situation and by simply using the library name we get the versioning bit for free anyway
[12:10] <Riddell> sitter: good idea
[12:10] <Riddell> hi sgclark!
[12:11]  * Riddell spots bug 1427654
[12:12] <sitter> zomgzomg
[12:12] <sitter> Riddell: btw do you ahve any updates on bluez?
[12:12] <sitter> I feel like I should go on a rant
[12:13] <Riddell> sitter: nope, still waiting on whatever still needs ported on the unity side, rant at didrocks if you think it'll help
[12:14] <Riddell> or work out how to make it co-installable but that probably lots of work
[12:14] <sitter> impossibru
[12:14] <sitter> stack needs pulseaudio built against bluez5
[12:14] <Riddell> mm
[12:14] <sitter> then again a bluetooth without audio support is better than no bluetooth >.<
[12:35] <soee> good moring
[12:38]  * Riddell publishes http://www.kubuntu.org/news/calligra-2.9
[12:38] <soee> Riddell: what about kdetelepathy ?
[12:39] <sitter> soee: I think you saw load problems in konversation? ... if so konvi dev says go to interface -> chat window in the config dialog and disable the scroll bar ... see if that helps
[12:39] <sitter> also pass it along in case you know anyone else who has seen the problem
[12:40] <sitter> oh and report back to me or #konversation
[12:41] <soee> sitter: let me check,
[12:46] <soee> sitter: ekm, that wasn't it. my problem was that konversation icon was always visible in tsk manager, now i right click on the icon and picked to remove that launcher and it is gone
[12:47] <soee> and i have no idea why this one icon worked liek some separate launcher
[12:49] <Sho_> soee: hi - sitter tells me you have various problems with konvi5?
[12:50] <sitter> Sho_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10514803/ backlog for your convenience
[12:50] <Sho_> thanks~
[12:51] <soee> Sho_: Kai has more serious issue where konv starts to use 100% CPU i think
[12:51] <Sho_> soee: the "why this one icon worked differently" is probably because you're (understandably) confused between the two types of launchers you can have on a plasma panel: task manager launchers (right-click task -> show icon when program is not running) and icons on the panel (which are indepentent of the task manager(
[12:51] <soee> BluesKaj: ^ ami right ?
[12:52] <Sho_> soee: as for why the launcher would go: the .desktop file got renamed between the kde 4 and kf5 versions to comply with a new desktop file naming pattern in kde
[12:52] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:53] <soee> Sho_: ok, tanks. One more thing the bug with moving char log directly to home folder is fixed ?
[12:53] <soee> *chat logs
[12:54] <Sho_> soee: that was a kubuntu bug
[12:54] <ScottK> We're in favor of systemd for this cycle, right?
[12:54] <sitter> ScottK: yes
[12:54] <Sho_> soee: they overrided our default logs location and forgot to keep the override for the kf5 version
[12:54] <Sho_> soee: so sitter gotta respond to that one :)
[12:54] <ScottK> OK.  FFe to switch has been submitted.
[12:54] <soee> Sho_: ok, thanks once again :)
[12:55] <sitter> Sho_: have you given any thought to changing the storage path upstream btw?
[12:56] <sitter> seems to me that we'd only need a kconf_update script that moves $HOME/logs? possibly symlink to new location
[12:56] <sitter> ScottK: <3
[12:58] <BluesKaj> soee, yes, just checked, one core of my 2 core cpu remains maxed on certain chats in konversation like #kubuntu. #kubuntu-devel and ##linux
[12:58] <soee> Sho_: ^
[12:58] <BluesKaj> the others are at a normal 5-10% or so
[13:00] <Sho_> sitter: in the past you did it with a custom konversationrc in the profile
[13:01] <Sho_> BluesKaj: please try switching off the scrollbar in Interface -> Chat Window and see if it helps
[13:01] <Sho_> sitter: If we had changed the storage path upstream it'd have broken too btw since $KDEHOME fell out of use now
[13:01] <Sho_> sitter: So ironically our $HOME/logs was more stable
[13:02] <sitter> you could always have used $HOME/.konversation though
[13:02] <sitter> if the directory was called konversation-logs I'd probably be less annoyed by it already (though putting random things in the visible home is meh in general)
[13:02] <Sho_> sitter: not the one you guys picked either tho
[13:03] <sitter> Sho_: yeah, I am not debating the sillyness of our setting override there
[13:04] <BluesKaj> Sho_, no difference
[13:04] <Sho_> BluesKaj: do you know how to use perf or gdb?
[13:04] <Sho_> sitter: before we can change it we need to write some migration code
[13:05] <BluesKaj> Sho_, they were mentioned before, but I'm not familiar with perf or gdb
[13:05] <sitter> fwiw, you could try to enable the kwin redraw effect to see whether there's obvious business in konversation
[13:05] <Sho_> good idea, too
[13:06] <Sho_> could you give that a shot BluesKaj?
[13:06] <sitter> Sho_: regarding the migration code, do you think it would be more than a simple kconf_update that moves the directory to the new location?
[13:06] <BluesKaj> Sho_, so what am I looking at ?
[13:08] <sitter> alt-space -> effects -> search for paint and enable it
[13:08] <sitter> that should make your desktop go all rainbowy
[13:08] <sitter> make sure you don't have any videos running as that will rainbow way too much
[13:08] <Sho_> sitter: kconf_update is extremely unreliable, i don't think it'd be ok in the wild
[13:08] <sitter> then go into an affected channel and check if the konversation window or parts of it blink excessively
[13:09] <sitter> Sho_: :O that seems like an odd thing to say considering everyone is using it in production releases ^^
[13:09] <Sho_> sitter: yes, and it breaks shit for users all the time
[13:09] <Sho_> sitter: the kded module finds and runs new kconf_update scripts at runtime, i.e. when konvi is running while the user installs the new version it'd move the logs and then you'd have unmerged log files in two locations
[13:10] <sitter> Sho_: simply function called from main() instead perhaps?
[13:10] <Sho_> sitter: this is also why quitting an app after updating it can undo settings changes because the app flushes out their config on quit and overwrites anything kconf_update did to the same keys, and few devs think to switch key names because they don't know the problem
[13:10] <sitter> *simple
[13:10] <Sho_> sitter: thanks to kconf_update kde effectively doesn't support updates at runtime
[13:10]  * sitter did not know kded was involved
[13:11] <Sho_> sitter: that's what runs kconf_update scripts
[13:11] <sitter> so yeah, to avoid runtime problems we could simply migrate in main()... as I was saying, ideally the migration code would be nothing more than a Dir.move
[13:11] <Sho_> sitter: you might think it'd be done in-process by the app, but that would be sane or sth, so it's not how it was done
[13:12] <sitter> ^^
[13:13] <Sho_> sitter: yeah, we'd need to do it like this: add a new kconfigxt key for the new log dir, at startup find out whether the current log dir was ever changed from the kconfigxt default for the old key, if not assume the user never changed their log dir and is eligible for migration, block chatting until that migration has been attempted, throw up an info dialog with progress for the move, and handle write errors
[13:13] <Sho_> something like that
[13:15] <sitter> Sho_: would we need to check the config at all though? if Dir.exist?('~/logs') ...
[13:15] <BluesKaj> Sho_, so what's to be done?
[13:15] <sitter> that of course has the beautiy flaw of potentially moving logs dirs other than konversation's :P
[13:15] <sitter> then again checking configs isn't necessarily helping that
[13:16] <Sho_> sitter: we need to check the config to find out if the user ever set a custom log path, and if they have, don't touch it
[13:16] <sitter> could be that the user starts konversation for the first time and thus has no custom dir set, but perhaps already has a logs/ dir for some other piece of software he's using
[13:16] <Sho_> sitter: there's no point to move dirs if we don't know they're in use, either
[13:16] <sitter> Sho_: you mean if they set it explicitly to ~/logs?
[13:16] <Sho_> BluesKaj: enable the repaint effect and see if you see konvi repainting even if there's nothing new to show
[13:17] <Sho_> sitter: no, if they set it explicitly to somewhere other than the default
[13:18] <Sho_> sitter: the above approach also has the advantage that it would catch your .kde path too and migrate from it as well
[13:18] <Sho_> sitter: since it would attempt to migrate away from any unchanged system default
[13:19] <Riddell> soee: what do you want to hear about kde telepathy?
[13:19] <sitter> I think I need to read the backlog again, I am not seeing the advantage
[13:20] <Sho_> sitter: we currently have konvis in the wild that use two log dirs that we consider undesirable for different reasons ($HOME/logs because whatever, .kde/... set by kubuntu 'cause outdated), which are specified in the .kcfg shipped with konvi and your system-level konversationrc override, respectively
[13:21] <sitter> Sho_: ah ah, I think I get it. that's still only marginally more complicated than if Dir.exist ... though, not exactly rocket science that one. I'll try to get you something to review rather than twiddle our old setting override back in place
[13:21] <Sho_> sitter: so the idea is that konvi figures out whether the user has ever manually changed the log path or not, and if not, proposes + attempts to move the logs to ~/.koversation-logs or whatever
[13:22] <Sho_> sitter: well, it needs user interaction (dialog that asks, kio move progress) and error handling (new location not writable, etc.)
[13:23] <Sho_> and it should pop up after the main window does, but before any connections are made
[13:24] <sitter> Sho_: why would it present a dialog?
[13:25] <BluesKaj> Sho_, there's a constant repaint every half second or so
[13:25] <sitter> there's no dialog asking the user whether the user wants to use ~/logs, presenting one when changing the default seems rather inconsistent
[13:26] <BluesKaj> Sho_, on everything
[13:27] <Sho_> sitter: because moving logs from the location the user is already used to without informing them is pretty weird
[13:27] <sitter> BluesKaj: that's probably from the input field cursor blinking
[13:27] <sitter> BluesKaj: try clicking on the log and check if it still repaints
[13:27] <Sho_> the input cursor blinking doesn't repaint the entire window on my konvi though
[13:28] <Sho_> only the cursor caret
[13:28] <Sho_> a half-second interval is pretty slow to be the cpu usage problem though
[13:29] <BluesKaj> everything repaints here , dunno what you mean by the cursor blinking , I don't see that here ...it's the whole desktop
[13:29] <sitter> Sho_: I kind of agree. But in the large scheme of things it kinda drowns in the fact that we moved to completely new directories for configs and whatnot without even informing the user and most apps not actually carying their data out of $KDEHOME as part of the process
[13:29] <sitter> Sho_: at any rate. rather than annoy the user with a dialog they might not understand I'd simply move and symlink tbh
[13:29] <Sho_> sitter: we completely fucked up the kde apps release if you asked me (and still haven't unfucked it)
[13:29] <BluesKaj> sitter, clicking on which log?
[13:29] <sitter> that way things don't get "lost" to the user
[13:30] <Sho_> sitter: i assume you saw https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2015-January/008292.html
[13:30] <sitter> yes
[13:31] <sitter> BluesKaj: the backlog
[13:34] <BluesKaj> sitter , nothing
[13:34] <sitter> BluesKaj: it still keeps a core busy though, right?
[13:35] <BluesKaj> sitter, hang on
[13:35] <sitter> shadeslayer, Riddell: it woudl be very lovely if you could comment on the phonon review I posted yesterday
[13:35] <sitter> and maybe poke sune into doing that as well
[13:35] <BluesKaj> sitter, the core is constant at 100% in this chat, no matter what
[13:36] <Riddell> sitter: where is?
[13:36] <Riddell> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122777/ ?
[13:36] <sitter> BluesKaj, Sho_: right, so the problem isn't repaints
[13:36] <sitter> Riddell: yes
[13:36] <BluesKaj> if I go to offtopic it drops to 3%
[13:37] <sitter> fixes debian being annoyed about the fact that you can't have libphonon-dev without libphononexperimental-dev...
[13:38] <Sho_> BluesKaj: please install perf, cause the cpu usage and then run perf top -p $(pidof konversation)
[13:38] <Sho_> BluesKaj: then let it run for like 30 seconds and pastebin the first page or so of output
[13:38] <sitter> package linux-tools-generic if I am not mistaken
[13:43] <Riddell> sitter: seems sane, my cmake foo isn't strong enough to be able to point out specific issues with it, I can build it and see if it does the right thing if you think that would help
[13:44] <sitter> whatever makes you give it a shipit ;)
[13:47] <Riddell> sitter: what changes would need to be done to the cmake files of a project using phonon
[13:49] <sitter> none
[13:49] <Riddell> sitter: even one that used phonon experimental?
[13:49] <sitter> cmake files that use phononexperimental technically also don't need changes as long as the code was correct to begin with
[13:50] <sitter> nothing should break by the way the change was made. it really is just a half-assed optionalism to make debian happy
[13:53] <sitter> a build that previously failed without experimental becuase it requires experimental will continue to fail. a build that previously succeeeded because it didn't use experimental anyway will continue to succeed. a build that previously succeeded and is using experimental will continue to do so *as long as the experimental dev package and lib are installed* (which was a prequesite to it suceeding anyway)
[13:54] <BluesKaj> Sho_, there's no perf available for the linux 3.19 kerenel , apt suggests installing linux-tools-3.19.0-7-generic but the repos connection failed, it stalled at the header for a period of time then went back to the prompt
[13:54]  * sitter done packaging the apps15.04 repos he is aware of >.<
[13:54] <sitter> BluesKaj: [14:38] <sitter> package linux-tools-generic if I am not mistaken
[13:55] <sitter> the unversioned packages will pull in the latest version ensuring you have a matching lineup of kernel and kernel tools
[13:56] <BluesKaj> sitter yes that command fails, apt suggests to install the linux-tools-3.19.0-7-generic pkg , but that's what fails
[13:56] <BluesKaj> as well
[13:56] <sitter> use archive.ubuntu.com as repo
[13:56] <BluesKaj> I'll try
[14:05] <BluesKaj> sitter, getting a hash sum mismatch with http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/universe/source/Sources , both 64 and 32 bit
[14:07] <sitter> try again in 5 minutes
[14:07] <sitter> or simply disable sources :P
[14:07] <BluesKaj> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/universe/source/Sources
[14:35] <BluesKaj> Sho_,  I have perf top -p $(pidof konversation) running in th eterminal , but how to freeze it to save the text ?
[14:36] <BluesKaj> print to perf.hist.N in the help dialog doesn't do anything, no such file
[14:39] <Sho_> BluesKaj: I'd say just select quickly and middle-click in kate to paste
[14:42] <BluesKaj> Sho_, I managed to save some to a textfile http://pastebin.com/psBP8TX1
[14:47] <Riddell> hi manchicken
[14:47] <Riddell> did you ever get a chance to look at muon manchicken?
[14:48] <BluesKaj> one can use the scrollback-save as option to a text file
[14:48] <BluesKaj> in perf
[14:48] <sitter> oxygen, I blame oxygen
[14:48] <sitter> BluesKaj: which window decoration do you use?
[14:50] <sitter> Sho_: I feel likeI should mention now that changing the widget style crashes konvi without drkonqi coming up :|
[14:51] <Sho_> sitter: reproducably? if so: gdb
[14:51] <sitter> wip
[14:51] <soee> would it be possible to show custom backgraund image for sddm in the theme details image http://wstaw.org/m/2015/03/03/worksace12.png ?
[14:52] <soee> or maybe also on the items list
[14:52] <Sho_> BluesKaj: lots of Oxygen widget style stuff in the perf output ... interesting, because I use Breeze and maybe that explains why I don't see CPU usage
[14:52] <BluesKaj> sitter, using breeze atm
[14:53] <soee> Riddell: the current version is not using kf5 or am i wrong (@ kde-telepathy)
[14:54] <Riddell> soee: no it's not and we won't get a release in time for kubuntu 15.04
[14:54] <Riddell> but maybe we should ask for a release of the applet or something
[14:54] <sitter> hm, ubuntu archive doesn't like me today
[14:54] <sitter> Sho_: reproducible http://paste.ubuntu.com/10515900/
[14:54]  * soee hugs sitter
[14:55] <sitter> can't get symbols right now, though from the looks of it symbols wouldn't help much anyway
[14:55] <Sho_> sitter: not a konvi fuckup at least by the looks of it
[14:55] <soee> Riddell: and the applet can get into Vivid ?
[14:55] <sitter> yeah it must have to do with something konvi does though
[14:55] <sitter> no other app blows up
[14:55] <BluesKaj> shadeslayer, switched the widget style to breeze anf that  crashed konversation , but didn't change the cpu load , still the same
[14:55] <sitter> Sho_: it's also interesting that drkonqi doesn't come up
[14:55] <sitter> all very peculiar
[14:56] <BluesKaj> oops Sho_ ^
[14:56] <sitter> I think I can give up on debugignt this today I am having 56k speeds to archive.ubuntu xD
[14:57] <BluesKaj> sitter, same here ...very slow
[14:58] <soee> someone know if ther eis any proggress with https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-40207 ?
[18:00] <beluga_> Plasma 5.2 & LibreOffice testers wanted: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89537 Color picker and highlight dropdown button does not work very well on KDE Plasma 5
[18:04] <KDDA> are there any guides about packaging for Kubuntu?
[18:11] <soee> KDE Ships KDE Applications 14.12.3
[21:10] <mparillo> KDDA: When I was trying (and failing) to package rekonq, here are my notes. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10519556/ During the European day time, you will find lots of people willing to help you learn packaging.
[21:11] <KDDA> mparillo: thanks
[21:14] <mparillo> KDDA: I would be happy to create a guide, but I never got it to work (mostly because of my keys), and I think publishing and improving it would be better than Riddell hand-holding newbies like me.
[21:22] <yofel> KDDA: in general, there's the ubuntu packaging guide (but ignore the bzr specific UDD stuff), and the debian new maintainers guide (which is a bit old and doesn't mention a VCS, but still a nice intro)
[21:22] <yofel> other than that, learning by doing is usually the way
[21:25] <KDDA> not sure where to start!
[21:26] <KDDA> Id like to see tilemill packaged for vivid
[21:27] <alket> fix dolphin pls
[21:28] <KDDA> dolphin is working ok for me
[21:28] <KDDA> whats your problem with it?
[21:28] <yofel> alket: like I said, we would first need a hint to what's wrong...
[21:29] <alket> how can I help
[21:29] <alket> I can crash dolphin easy hehe
[21:29] <KDDA> how do you crash it?
[21:30] <alket> I can give you KRDC access if you want
[21:30] <KDDA> run it via a terminal and get the error messages
[21:31] <alket> KDDA: open a file with kate, work on in let say , 10 min, then go to dolphin and click on side panel
[21:31] <alket> also Konversation saves logso n home directories
[21:31] <alket> ~/logs
[21:32] <yofel> which side panel? Information?
[21:32] <KDDA> I open files in Kate all the time :/
[21:32] <yofel> alket: sitter and Sho were talking about fixing the log dir today
[21:35] <alket> thank yofel
[21:35] <alket> as soon as dolphin crashes (can't get it to crash right now)
[21:35] <alket> ill send report
[21:36] <yofel> thanks
[21:37] <alket> also wx looks unusable
[21:37] <alket> try filezilla
[21:38] <yofel> WTH
[21:38] <alket> ?
[21:38] <yofel> well, I see what you mean o.O
[21:39] <alket> backspace and some keys don't work
[21:39] <alket> also is there a channel support for kftpgrabber
[21:40] <yofel> backspace works here, but I do remember it not working once a while ago
[21:40] <yofel> for me the UI just looks... misligned
[21:41] <alket> I have wxwidgets 3.0.2
[21:41] <yofel> same
[21:41] <alket> and Kernel 3.8.x
[21:42] <alket> 3.9 gives me black screen
[21:42] <yofel> hm.. what's my gtk3 theme...
[21:42] <alket> 3.18
[21:42] <yofel> Orion
[21:44] <KDDA> black screen where?
[21:44] <KDDA> can you log in?
[21:45] <alket> KDDA: no, but I use xorg, so i dont blame it, but wanted to note maybe that could be the cause of wxwidget missbehaviour
[21:45] <alket> xorg = xorg edgers PPA
[21:46] <KDDA> when I was tryig to upgrade I kept getting a black screen and white mouse pointer, nothing else
[21:46] <KDDA> fresh install worked, but when I copied my home folder over it died again
[21:50] <yofel> alket: plain vivid with nvidia here and filezilla looks like this: https://yofel.dyndns.org/owncloud/index.php/s/iSgCrHe9PGnNlT6
[21:50] <alket> your SSL is expired
[21:51] <alket> lol, but your theme looks good though
[21:51] <yofel> is it? It's self signed..
[21:52] <KDDA> I cant access it :/
[21:52] <alket> yes me too, but it needs to add exception
[21:52] <KDDA> oh wait, its just slow
[21:53] <alket> its from home connection i think
[21:53] <yofel> yup ^^
[21:54] <KDDA> see it now
[21:54] <KDDA> how do you get it to do that?
[21:55] <yofel> to do what?
[21:55] <alket> you need to config router
[21:55] <alket> I have public ip though, but slow upload
[21:55] <KDDA> the swadow
[21:56] <yofel> I'm confused, do you mean the tooltip?
[21:57]  * alket common dolphin, crash
[21:57] <KDDA> the screen shot
[21:57] <KDDA> how do you make filezilla do it
[21:58] <yofel> not filezilla, that was ksnapshot (using rectangular region with a 1s delay to catch the tooltip)
[21:58] <KDDA> oh, misunderstood you
[21:58] <KDDA> I been using filezilla a lot today and didnt see anything like that!
[21:59] <yofel> if you hover over the "Host:" input field with your mouse it'll show a popup telling you what's valid in there
[21:59] <yofel> for some reason Orion renders that with white text -.-
[22:00] <yofel> s/popup/tooltip/
[22:00] <kubotu> yofel: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[22:08] <alket> konversation also doesn't order nick list based on ranks, but just ASC
[23:05] <alket> yofel: dolphin doesn't save the "Add to places"
[23:20] <alket> yofel: dolphin crash: https://paste.kde.org/pzwyxxjws
[23:21] <KDDA> looks like issue with X
[23:24] <valorie> odd error message today in updates to Vivid beta: https://paste.kde.org/pjrqqsczr
[23:24] <valorie> they were successful, but Setting up apparmor failed
[23:39] <valorie> dunno whether that is worth a bug report however